# Mihawk vs. Prime Shiki



## MYJC (Apr 6, 2016)

Match takes place on Banaro Island. Starting distance is 100m. No prep, manga knowledge. Everyone is IC. 

Who takes this and what diff?


I always found Shiki somewhat overrated, but a lot of people disagree so I'd like to see how OL feels he'd fare in this fight.


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## Beast (Apr 6, 2016)

Shiki high diff imo


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## zoro (Apr 6, 2016)

Shiki higher end of high diff


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## Amol (Apr 6, 2016)

Shiki High diff.
He is got better feats and portrayal than him.
Hype is debatable.
And Vergo definitely doesn't beat Shiki.


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## gold ace (Apr 6, 2016)

Shiki low diffs him


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## Coruscation (Apr 6, 2016)

Shiki would throw a lot of things. Mihawk would cut a lot of things.

Shiki's hype is higher -- the guy went against Garp and Sengoku at once, was one of the old legends, a "Yonkou" of his time and fought Roger, albeit he probably kinda got his ass kicked -- but it's not entirely obvious why Mihawk wouldn't stand a chance at winning against him. He's most likely a more powerful swordsman and considering the size of things Zoro is already able to cut, I'm not sure anything Shiki could throw would overwhelm Mihawk. I suppose it might come down to stamina. Does Shiki's DF power drain him like we know powers like Law and Caesar's do? It operates in a sort of similar way, keeping things floating. That could pose a problem. Mihawk's stamina would also be taxed cutting huge objects repeatedly. Whoever starts running low first is probably going to start having trouble. In the end it probably comes down to whether Mihawk is able to get close, or Shiki is forced to try and get close because he can't bring Mihawk down with cuts. Once it's a swordfight I see Mihawk winning it, but getting close to Shiki would be quite challenging and I don't see Mihawk's ranged slashes getting the job done. I see both parties having a hard time winning at a distance so it really might come down to stamina in the end. Really don't know who to go for in that regard, I mean Mihawk is kind of inactive so maybe his would be lower, but at the same time he doesn't seem like the kind to let himself go at all.


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## SpiRo (Apr 6, 2016)

Shiki, dunno about difficulty.


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## giantbiceps (Apr 6, 2016)

Shiki, dun care about difficulty.


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## Sherlōck (Apr 6, 2016)

Can go either way. Leaning towards the more relevant character Mihawk.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Finalbeta (Apr 7, 2016)

Shiki gets ragdolled

Reactions: Like 1


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## trance (Apr 7, 2016)

Shiki with high-ish difficulty.


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## Finalbeta (Apr 7, 2016)

Mihawk can open dimensions with his sword since Shanks can too

He therefore wins


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## Beast (Apr 7, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> Mihawk can open dimensions with his sword since Shanks can too
> 
> He therefore wins



Must you guys be told again and again... Mihawk is not SHANKS.


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## J★J♥ (Apr 7, 2016)

Shiki oneshots.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## TheWiggian (Apr 7, 2016)

MasterBeast said:


> Must you guys be told again and again... Mihawk is not SHANKS.



True Mihawk got 2 arms and didn't display CoC.


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## Beast (Apr 7, 2016)

TheWiggian said:


> True Mihawk got 2 arms and didn't display CoC.



Correct, unlike Shanks he doesn't have to the qualities to rule as emperor.


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## TheWiggian (Apr 7, 2016)

MasterBeast said:


> Correct, unlike Shanks he doesn't have to the qualities to rule as emperor.



Yea he doesn't need a crew and an army to survive.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dunno (Apr 7, 2016)

MasterBeast said:


> Must you guys be told again and again... Mihawk is not SHANKS.



But they are almost assuredly completely equal in power.


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## Raiden34 (Apr 7, 2016)

TheWiggian said:


> Yea he doesn't need a crew and an army to survive.



Most likely Shanks' army and his crew needs Shanks to survive, similar to WB and his crew. Mihawk obviously isn't ruling the new world, he can't even rule a single island in the new world.


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## TheWiggian (Apr 7, 2016)

Erkan12 said:


> Most likely Shanks' army and his crew needs Shanks to survive, similar to WB and his crew. Mihawk obviously isn't ruling the new world, he can't even rule a single island in the new world.



Why should he rule something? He already achieved something that is the top of the world. Now Mihawk is a talent scout.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Apr 7, 2016)

TheWiggian said:


> Yea he doesn't need a crew and an army to survive.


Just means he is weevil tier.



Dunno said:


> But they are almost assuredly completely equal in power.


16 years back, yhh.


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## Dunno (Apr 7, 2016)

MasterBeast said:


> 16 years back, yhh.



There's this thing called portrayal. They are portrayed as rivals, which in manga means that they are equally strong (unless it's a MC rivalry).


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## xmysticgohanx (Apr 12, 2016)

Both are strong af. It depends how much stronger Luffy is than Roger during EoS

Reactions: Like 1


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## HisMajestyMihawk (May 2, 2016)

i have never understood the wank of this semi-non-canon character 

his best feat is throwing a marine ship in the air, which is something even Trafalgar Law can do


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## Muah (May 2, 2016)

Could go either way. I see Shiki winning through hax. With prep he mid diffs. Is island throwing part of his regular arsenal like did he carry islands in his prime or was that just the movie.


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## Spirit King (May 2, 2016)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> i have never understood the wank of this semi-non-canon character
> 
> his best feat is throwing a marine ship in the air, which is something even Trafalgar Law can do


Nah his feats include facing Garp and Sengoku at the same time resulting in a diffcult loss. Which is significant better on screen than what Mihawk has based on level of opponents and the fact they needed to double team him. This is prime Garp and Sengoku no less.


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## HisMajestyMihawk (May 2, 2016)

Spirit King said:


> Nah his feats include facing Garp and Sengoku at the same time



not much better than Jack's portrayal of "facing Fujitora and Sengoku and Tsuru at the same time" IMO

it would be a different story if Shiki had actually won that encounter. Unfortunately all that was said was he "destroyed half of marineford" in the battle.

Well 1 attack from any top tier would destroy half the buildings in Marineford...so that's not really impressive

Reactions: Like 1


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## Spirit King (May 2, 2016)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> not much better than Jack's portrayal of "facing Fujitora and Sengoku and Tsuru at the same time" IMO
> 
> it would be a different story if Shiki had actually won that encounter


It's clearly not the the same at all come on now. If either one felt they could have comfortably soloed him they would have when was the last time you the admirals go out of their way to gang up on someone and when was the last time any Top tiers felt the need to 2vs 1 Mihawk.

The difference in portrayal and level of opponents is vast. it clearly wasn't an easy fight as marineford was fucked up afterward.


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## Etherborn (May 2, 2016)

Mihawk wins, Prime Shiki was a swordsman.

Strong World Shiki would beat him though since he's a kickswordsman headbutter.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## HisMajestyMihawk (May 2, 2016)

as with the Jack situation, Shiki was the one to bring the fight to Marine HQ

in order to deal with the threat asap they would be stupid to send only 1 admiral to "honour duel" him

in fact I'm surprised they didn't bring out the whole gang. clearly the other marines were happy to sit in their offices and sip tea/masturbate while watching Shiki get spanked, as he was not considered a real threat

Reactions: Like 1


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## Spirit King (May 2, 2016)

Yeah the reason why the didn't help out was because they were getting injured and killed in the cross fire.


Whereas Mihawks gets easily stalled by Whitebeard Commanders. 

Too busy playing little pirate games. He can't hang with the big leagues.


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## HisMajestyMihawk (May 2, 2016)

Spirit King said:


> Yeah the reason why the didn't help out was because they were getting injured and killed in the cross fire.
> 
> 
> .



sorry bro but the only damage to Marineford in that panel was 1 ship thrown into some buildings

something a casual attack from Law can even achieve

it also doesn't say it was a "hard fight".... it just says they fought until Shiki did some damage to the buildings 

still not impressed

Reactions: Like 1


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## Spirit King (May 2, 2016)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> sorry bro but the only damage to Marineford in that panel was 1 ship thrown into some buildings
> 
> something a casual attack from Law can even achieve
> 
> ...



Dude I'm not impressed with Mihawk trying and failing to kill to pre-timeskip Luffy (and he definately did try), followed by him being completely stopped by a whitebeard commander. Mihawk hasn't fought a single top tier whereas shiki faught two simultaenously destroyed half of Marineford and not a marine bar Sengoku and Garp combined where on his level.

So tell me what actual showing do you think puts Mihawk remotely on this level. mihawk has only defeated fodder on panel and has never best a high tier let alone a top tier in single combat.

There's a very good reason why the shchibukai as a group gets trashed.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## HisMajestyMihawk (May 2, 2016)

who has shiki beaten in combat? that's right he lost to preskip Luffy in 1shot

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Spirit King (May 2, 2016)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> who has shiki beaten in combat? that's right he lost to preskip Luffy in 1shot


If you hadn't already figured it out that's non canon. So where are these top tier Mihawk feats of yours Shiki survived a fight with Roger that was stated he won in part due to luck and fought both Sengoku and Garp. 

I'm waiting.


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## Veltpunch (May 2, 2016)

Wayment, so Mihawk getting stalled by a WB commander is a bad thing? Someone should tell that to the C3 seeing as how the same thing happened to them... 

And people are still using pre-skip Luffy (the main character) surviving a brush in with him to downplay him? Damn. Guess we have to downplay Kizaru now too.

So let's see:
>Has EoS hype as Zoro's endgame
>has yet to even flex his ability
>rides dolo through NW controlled by Yonkou in coffin sized boat
>More than likely strongest Shichibukai (one of the 3 super powers next to WG & Yonkou) with the 2nd strongest so far being Doffy (high-tier character)
>Can't hang with the "big dogs?"

Reactions: Like 1


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## Finalbeta (May 2, 2016)

Honestly Prime Shiki is a guy full of PIS

Difficult to judge his strenght


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## savior2005 (May 2, 2016)

Mihawk nearly got killed by vista. shiki was fighting on par with roger, garp, and sengoku.

Shiki wins mid(low) diff at most.


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## MYJC (May 2, 2016)

You know, I never....ever....ever....*ever* thought I would say this in my life, but Mihawk is being underrated here. 

He's a rival to Shanks (a Yonkou) and it's said that their battles used to shake the Grand Line. Not to mention and endgame opponent for Zoro. He's clearly on the level of an Admiral.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## HisMajestyMihawk (May 3, 2016)

Shiki got mid-diffed by preskip Luffy 

he is post-TS Law level at best

LOL at getting asswhooped by 2 admirals being a "feat". By that definition Jack is PK-tier


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## Spirit King (May 3, 2016)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> Shiki got mid-diffed by preskip Luffy
> 
> he is post-TS Law level at best
> 
> LOL at getting asswhooped by 2 admirals being a "feat". By that definition Jack is PK-tier


Where in the manga canon did that actually happen, or are we bringing Movie feats into this? Post TS Law would have required both Garp and Sengoku to take down after a battle that destroyed half of Marine ford? I'm sure that's what would happen.


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## Sherlōck (May 3, 2016)

TheWiggian said:


> Yea he doesn't need a crew and an army to survive.



Mihawk>Roger than.

Reactions: Like 1


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## HisMajestyMihawk (May 3, 2016)

I've always said that Roger was pirate king because he had

A) a strong crew
B) plot D. power to read ponyrocks

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheWiggian (May 3, 2016)

Sherlōck said:


> Mihawk>Roger than.



Why not? Who knows ^^

Reactions: Like 2


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## gold ace (May 3, 2016)

Shiki low diffs at worst

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## Nox (May 3, 2016)

Oda went out of his way to hype the old generation era. From what we know I'd split them in their Primes as:

SS; Rodger / Whitebeard / Garp 
S; Shiki / Rayleigh / Sengoku

Ray was said to be a threat no less than Old WB. At the time Old WB was the world strongest man. Mihawk is a man not muppet. Shiki hypothetically was at a level beyond that. To efficiently curb him in the least hassle they sent out their best man and the second best marine at the time. Mihawks greates call to fame was fighting Shanks whose level of strength at said time was unknown. So unknown that even Blackbeard had succesfuly scared him. 

Shiki wins until further notice. Being Zoro's EOS opponent doesn't Exe,or him from a beating and neither does it mean he is in the apex of the universe. By his own admission was that those who chose the path of PK have a task more greater than his own. Great task go hand in hand with matching power level. So no to the whole Mihawk > Yonko/Admiral.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Veltpunch (May 4, 2016)

Bambino said:


> Oda went out of his way to hype the old generation era. From what we know I'd split them in their Primes as:
> 
> SS; Rodger / Whitebeard / Garp
> S; Shiki / Rayleigh / Sengoku
> ...


Curious to know what Dragon has done to earn his spot in the "apex of the universe." Mihawk has better feats, hype, and portrayal and he hasn't even broken a sweat. As far as the path to PK thing goes, that shouldn't indicate how strong *he* is. At the end of the day, even if he turned out to be exactly Shanks' level, he's still just a single man compared to having to go up against WG (obviously including Admirals), 4 Yonkous + their crews and your peers with the same ambition of becoming PK. 

I don't know who wins this because I don't know that much about Shiki, but if Garp was stronger than Shiki 1v1 I feel like it's a bit redundant to bring up that Garp & Sengoku both fought him because that tells me that they didn't *have *to do so together, and that doesn't put him above old WB.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Finalbeta (May 4, 2016)

gold ace said:


> Shiki low diffs at worst


Why do you think he could oneshot him?


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## gold ace (May 4, 2016)

Peter Pan said:


> Why do you think he could oneshot him?



I never said he could one shot him.


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## Finalbeta (May 4, 2016)

gold ace said:


> I never said he could one shot him.


You said it's low diff * at best *


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## Dunno (May 4, 2016)

Sometimes I wonder if the Shiki in the One Piece I read is the same Shiki as in the One Piece everyone else reads...


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## Finalbeta (May 4, 2016)

Points of view 
He never looked like a strong guy to me

Still the fight was off paneled

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Nox (May 4, 2016)

Veltpunch said:


> Curious to know what Dragon has done to earn his spot in the "apex of the universe." *Mihawk has better feats, *hype*, and portrayal and he hasn't even broken a sweat.*



Its not that hard to do compared to a man whose existence in the story has been an enigma. Especially so considering his appearances stretch as far back as the East Blue saga. My speculation for the apex of the universe goes back to post Marineford. Upon WB's death, it was implied that the power struggles in the universe was up in air. 

This lead me to speculate that each of the major factions (Marines - Pirates - Revolutionaries) had their best combatant and said individuals would be the ones to pick up his (Old WB's) mantle. The marines had done an excellent job at hyping Akainu and this was cemented further with his win and promotion to FA. Pirates were a grey area as the remaining Yonko's power is unknown. However, due to his relevance, longevity and impact on the story the logical choice was Shanks. It only made sense that the benchmark that the MC aimed to surpass sat atop the best of his class.

Lastly, we have Dragon spearheading the revolutionaries. Unlike the rest of the universe those of the blood line D, are bound to inherit certain traits of greatness of those who preceded. Monkey D's are not only mavericks but portrayed as a family that prides itself on their strength. His father and grandson have each held their mettle in their respective fields. Luffy's COQ is implied to be a pass down from Dragon. The rarity of conquerors and its growth placed down on immense spirit means that a man who is single handedly challenging the WG is bound to have plentiful.Mihawk's hype pales in comparison to Dragon. 



> As far as the path to PK thing goes, that shouldn't indicate how strong..



Sure, you need an excellent cast but they are nothing more than a supplement to your own strength. WB was considered the man closest to OP. Now this could partly due to his tenure as a pirate = more experience = more knowledge. Yet, the one telling aspect of his crew was the amount of strength he had. To put it in simple terms. Those who aim for PK are indirectly challenging for World's Strongest Man.  DCJ question whether Luffy was capable of beating Admirals/Four Emperors since a crews overall power is largely composed of its captain. The fact that Shank's is in contention is 1 of 4 capable of claiming PK;ma pirate goal means at the very least he is likely slightly stronger. To conclude think of it this way, although Shanks and Mihawk are rivals they are each mentors to 2 stalwarts of this age. This is a shounen. Do you honestly believe the MC would seek to surpass someone who his own right hand will potentially be greater than? 



> I don't know who wins this because I don't know that much about Shiki, but if Garp was stronger than Shiki 1v1 I feel like it's a bit redundant to bring up that Garp & Sengoku both fought him



The location of this specific fight is Marineford. Pre TS all it took was BB threatening to sink it, to spring Sengoku and Garp into action. During the same war the marines were cautious to ensure majority of the battle occurred outside its main premises. The same applies to Shiki vs Garp + Sengoku. Just because he I classified him weaker than Garp, doesn't make him a push over. Shiki also had the added incentive of his rage at marines. Rather than risk having him run wild they sent their best men to stop him and even then we don't know how long the fight lasted.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## Veltpunch (May 4, 2016)

Bambino said:


> Its not that hard to do compared to a man whose existence in the story has been an enigma. Especially so considering his appearances stretch as far back as the East Blue saga. My speculation for the apex of the universe goes back to post Marineford. Upon WB's death, it was implied that the power struggles in the universe was up in air.
> 
> This lead me to speculate that each of the major factions (Marines - Pirates - Revolutionaries) had their best combatant and said individuals would be the ones to pick up his (Old WB's) mantle. The marines had done an excellent job at hyping Akainu and this was cemented further with his win and promotion to FA. Pirates were a grey area as the remaining Yonko's power is unknown. However, due to his relevance, longevity and impact on the story the logical choice was Shanks. It only made sense that the benchmark that the MC aimed to surpass sat atop the best of his class.
> 
> Lastly, we have Dragon spearheading the revolutionaries. Unlike the rest of the universe those of the blood line D, are bound to inherit certain traits of greatness of those who preceded. Monkey D's are not only mavericks but portrayed as a family that prides itself on their strength. His father and grandson have each held their mettle in their respective fields. Luffy's COQ is implied to be a pass down from Dragon. The rarity of conquerors and its growth placed down on immense spirit means that a man who is single handedly challenging the WG is bound to have plentiful.Mihawk's hype pales in comparison to Dragon.


So in short, nothing concrete puts Dragon at that level. 

Mihawk's hype as fighter exceeds Dragon's. Since you clearly disagree, do you have anything hype wise on Dragon's fighting ability? 






> Sure, you need an excellent cast but they are nothing more than a supplement to your own strength. WB was considered the man closest to OP. Now this could partly due to his tenure as a pirate = more experience = more knowledge. Yet, the one telling aspect of his crew was the amount of strength he had. To put it in simple terms. Those who aim for PK are indirectly challenging for World's Strongest Man.  DCJ question whether Luffy was capable of beating Admirals/Four Emperors since a crews overall power is largely composed of its captain. The fact that Shank's is in contention is 1 of 4 capable of claiming PK;ma pirate goal means at the very least he is likely slightly stronger. To conclude think of it this way, although Shanks and Mihawk are rivals they are each mentors to 2 stalwarts of this age. This is a shounen. Do you honestly believe the MC would seek to surpass someone who his own right hand will potentially be greater than?


Nah, it's really as simple as fighting one man vs fighting thousands, including 7 of the strongest in the verse. Let's say, strictly for argument's sake, that Mihawk = Shanks. To become WSS, you have to manage to beat Mihawk. To become PK you have to beat, in this example, 4 Mihawks and their crews (Yonkou) and then the WG (3 more Mihawks + Shichibukai). Even just from a navigational standpoint, Mihawk is fairly easy to find. The OP is not. There are more than a few concrete reasons for the path to PK being more difficult than attaining WSS title, which is why that statement shouldn't and doesn't work against him.






> The location of this specific fight is Marineford. Pre TS all it took was BB threatening to sink it, to spring Sengoku and Garp into action. During the same war the marines were cautious to ensure majority of the battle occurred outside its main premises. The same applies to Shiki vs Garp + Sengoku. Just because he I classified him weaker than Garp, doesn't make him a push over. Shiki also had the added incentive of his rage at marines. Rather than risk having him run wild they sent their best men to stop him and even then we don't know how long the fight lasted.


Never said he was a pushover but if Garp > Shiki but Shiki was taken down by Garp and Sengoku, the reason you stated only help prove that this is not something that means much if you're talking about Shiki being > old WB.

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## xmysticgohanx (May 4, 2016)

Prime Shiki > Prime Garp


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## savior2005 (May 4, 2016)

hell with all these "valid" arguments, Prime shiki > Prime roger. He was winning the battle after all till that storm struck


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## gold ace (May 5, 2016)

Peter Pan said:


> You said it's low diff * at best *



Atworst*.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Finalbeta (May 5, 2016)

gold ace said:


> Atworst*.


At worst for who?

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## gold ace (May 5, 2016)

Peter Pan said:


> At worst for who?



Read my post.... Shiki low diffs at worst....


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## Finalbeta (May 5, 2016)

gold ace said:


> Read my post.... Shiki low diffs at worst....


This means low diff is the max he needs
so my point was right

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Nox (May 5, 2016)

Veltpunch said:


> So in short, nothing concrete puts Dragon at that level. Mihawk's hype as fighter exceeds Dragon's. Since you clearly disagree, do you have anything hype wise on Dragon's fighting ability?



Yes. Nothing but portrayal and shounen tropes which OP is not exempt. Pardon the reach, but the fact that a Yonko who mind you had an Admiral level in his crew took it upon himself to personally drop in on him, shows at the very least he is an enemy capable of facing that level threat. Mihawks hype is that he often sought out Shanks to fight............... 12 years ago & refused duels once he lost his arm. Inspite of the fact he lost no strenght or so the databooks say.



> Nah, it's really as simple as fighting one man vs fighting thousands, including 7 of the strongest in the verse. Let's say, strictly for argument's sake, that Mihawk = Shanks. To become WSS, you have to manage to beat Mihawk. To become PK you have to beat, in this example, 4 Mihawks and their crews (Yonkou) and then the WG (3 more Mihawks + Shichibukai)*.* Even just from a navigational standpoint, Mihawk is fairly easy to find. The OP is not. There are more than a few concrete reasons for the path to PK being more difficult than attaining WSS title, *which is why that statement shouldn't and doesn't work against him.*



Gotcha. PK involves political, militaristic and individual power. Lets ignore the first 2 and settle on the last. Those who are attempting to claim PK status (per you example) need to have the individual strength capable of beating 8 Mihawks (not at once but different times OFC) and emerge victorious. If a hypothetical Shank's level Luffy is not capable of defeating/being superior to Yonko and Admirals in one on one combat and win, then it doesn't matter if his crew is capable matching their crews/Warlords. Knowledge, crew might and captain strength are all just as important as the other. To be WSS man you need to defeat 1 Mihawk to be PK you need to do so 4+ times and since this is Yonko's goal and Admirals another hurdle to jump I percieve them being slightly above Mihawk. Flawed perhaps but that's how I see it. If we get definitive proof that Shanks is solely dependent on his fruit and that his haki mastery < Mihawk, I still view him stronger.




> Never said he was a pushover but if Garp > Shiki but Shiki was taken down by Garp and Sengoku, the reason you stated only help prove that this is not something that means much if you're talking about Shiki being > old WB.



It isn't that hard

> Prime Ray is scaled to Old WB.
> The top pirates from old gen were Rodger, Whitbeard and Shiki.
> Point 2 means, in spite of point 1. Shiki was stronger.
> Garp is rumored to have matched Rodger in battle.
> Shiki sole MF rescue invasion turns into an all out revenge act
> Garp + Sengoku = 2 Admirals were called upon to efficiently halt Shiki 
> From this potrayal, we can see Prime Shiki was capable of facing one of the strongest marine task force albeit he lost.


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## Finalbeta (May 5, 2016)

@HisMajestyMihawk Roger can beat 8 Mihawk so

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Veltpunch (May 5, 2016)

Bambino said:


> Yes. Nothing but portrayal and shounen tropes which OP is not exempt. Pardon the reach, but the fact that a Yonko who mind you had an Admiral level in his crew took it upon himself to personally drop in on him, shows at the very least he is an enemy capable of facing that level threat. Mihawks hype is that he often sought out Shanks to fight............... 12 years ago & refused duels once he lost his arm. Inspite of the fact he lost no strenght or so the databooks say.


So nothing? Understood.





> Gotcha. PK involves political, militaristic and individual power. Lets ignore the first 2 and settle on the last. Those who are attempting to claim PK status (per you example) need to have the individual strength capable of beating 8 Mihawks (not at once but different times OFC) and emerge victorious. If a hypothetical Shank's level Luffy is not capable of defeating/being superior to Yonko and Admirals in one on one combat and win, then it doesn't matter if his crew is capable matching their crews/Warlords. Knowledge, crew might and captain strength are all just as important as the other. To be WSS man you need to defeat 1 Mihawk to be PK you need to do so 4+ times and since this is Yonko's goal and Admirals another hurdle to jump I percieve them being slightly above Mihawk. Flawed perhaps but that's how I see it. If we get definitive proof that Shanks is solely dependent on his fruit and that his haki mastery < Mihawk, I still view him stronger.


Word it how you want, the point is that the statement he made about becoming PK being more difficult than becoming WSS is not an indictment against him.






> It isn't that hard
> 
> > Prime Ray is scaled to Old WB.
> > The top pirates from old gen were Rodger, Whitbeard and Shiki.
> ...


So the only thing that matters towards his portrayal are point 1 and 2, cool. As I previously stated, I didn't know much about Shiki. Him being a top 3 pirate back then is important information in this discussion, which was not previously stated. 

Anyway if you have a link to chapter 0 I'd appreciate it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Lawliet (May 5, 2016)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> as with the Jack situation, Shiki was the one to bring the fight to Marine HQ
> 
> in order to deal with the threat asap they would be stupid to send only 1 admiral to "honour duel" him
> 
> in fact I'm surprised they didn't bring out the whole gang. clearly the other marines were happy to sit in their offices and sip tea/masturbate while watching Shiki get spanked, as he was not considered a real threat



this


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## gold ace (May 5, 2016)

Peter Pan said:


> This means low diff is the max he needs
> so my point was right



Yes low diff is the max he needs. But I didn't say he one shots him


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## Finalbeta (May 5, 2016)

gold ace said:


> Yes low diff is the max he needs. But I didn't say he one shots him


No-low diff means 2 hits at best
I give you that

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## HisMajestyMihawk (May 5, 2016)

Roger is kind of weak tbh, his only feat is almost losing against Shiki (a mid tier), and also getting executed by 2 fodders
the Yonko are basically weaker versions of this

dont believe the hype 

at least he had strong people in his crew, like Ray who was implied to be able to solo 2 Kizarus

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Disagree 1


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## Finalbeta (May 6, 2016)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> Roger is kind of weak tbh, his only feat is almost losing against Shiki (a mid tier), and also getting executed by 2 fodders
> the Yonko are basically weaker versions of this
> 
> dont believe the hype
> ...


Going by combat feats Mihawk > Roger in fact

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## Nox (May 6, 2016)

Veltpunch said:


> So nothing? Understood.
> 
> Word it how you want, the point is that the statement he made about becoming PK being more difficult than becoming WSS is not an indictment against him.
> 
> ...



I've got as much proof as those who claim: Mihawk = Yonko. 
In respect to the knowledge and crew aspect we on the same page. However, if we pick Yonko crews and pluck out nothing but their captain and replace it with Mihawk. Im saying they'd be a noticeable difference in said crew's power. Let's agree to disagree. I mean we'll get a definite power measure in due time. 
As for the chapter:


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## Spirit King (May 7, 2016)

Mihawk = Yonkou was stated at the begining of the series when Shanks was still basically fodder he lost his arm to a damn east blue sea king (which is a testament to the complete lack of concrete powerlevels at the time). It's telling that it has never been brought up since and makes it very weird how DD had a better showing at MF than Mihawk did.

Shanks single-handedly ended the MF war when he stepped in with his small ass crew because the navy did not want to mess with him. What contribution did Mihawk have to war that was remotely comparable. Do you think if they switched positions that Mihawk would have been able to stop the war and Shanks would be stalled by a WB commander.


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## SpiRo (May 7, 2016)

Prime Shiki > Mihawk

Reactions: Like 13 | Dislike 1


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## Veltpunch (May 7, 2016)

Bambino said:


> I've got as much proof as those who claim: Mihawk = Yonko.
> In respect to the knowledge and crew aspect we on the same page. However, if we pick Yonko crews and pluck out nothing but their captain and replace it with Mihawk. Im saying they'd be a noticeable difference in said crew's power. Let's agree to disagree. I mean we'll get a definite power measure in due time.
> As for the chapter:


You've actually got a little less putting him in that general area but I can agree to disagree.



Spirit King said:


> Mihawk = Yonkou was stated at the begining of the series when Shanks was still basically fodder he lost his arm to a damn east blue sea king (which is a testament to the complete lack of concrete powerlevels at the time). It's telling that it has never been brought up since and makes it very weird how DD had a better showing at MF than Mihawk did.


It was never blatantly stated but his portrayal and hype is enough (for most) to place him in that general area of power.



> Shanks single-handedly ended the MF war when he stepped in with his small ass crew because the navy did not want to mess with him. What contribution did Mihawk have to war that was remotely comparable. *Do you think if they switched positions that Mihawk would have been able to stop the war and Shanks would be stalled by a WB commander.*


Shanks didn't single handedly end anything. He had his Yonkou level crew behind him, which believe it or not, *does *matter. Why would the navy risk fighting a second Yonkou crew back to back? You replace Shanks' crew with WB's to when both parties are fresh and there is still a war. Insert WB or any one of the other Yonkou crews towards the end after the fighting is pretty much done and the war still ends. Shanks' hand in ending a war that was already over is overrated. 

To the bold: If you swapped Shanks and Mihawk (one man with no crew) they might've fought him seeing how they still had 3 admirals, Garp, Sengoku and Shichibukai left. Probably still would have fought Shanks if he would have showed up to MF alone for the same reasons, and seeing how Akainu, Aokiji and Kizaru all were stalled by WB commanders as well, I don't think Shanks is above the same happening to him.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Finalbeta (May 7, 2016)

SpiRo said:


> Prime Shiki > Mihawk


That's obvious

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## Amon Lancelot (May 11, 2016)

MasterBeast said:


> Must you guys be told again and again... Mihawk is not SHANKS.


Yeah he's stronger

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Amon Lancelot (May 11, 2016)

Spirit King said:


> Mihawk hasn't fought a single top tier


The duels he had with Shanks which echoed throughout the Grand Line?

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## Finalbeta (May 11, 2016)

Amon Lancelot said:


> The duels he had with Shanks which echoed throughout the Grand Line?


Shanks definitely wasn't a noob when he fought with Mihawk although he was probably weaker than MF Shanks


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## Amon Lancelot (May 11, 2016)

Spirit King said:


> There's a very good reason why the shchibukai as a group gets trashed.


Mihawk stated the Shichibukai are equal in power to Marine HQ

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Amon Lancelot (May 11, 2016)

Bambino said:


> This lead me to speculate that each of the major factions (Marines - Pirates - Revolutionaries) had their best combatant and said individuals would be the ones to pick up his (Old WB's) mantle.



Doffy begs to differ

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Amon Lancelot (May 11, 2016)

Bambino said:


> This is a shounen. Do you honestly believe the MC would seek to surpass someone who his own right hand will potentially be greater than?


Luffy is surpassing Roger not Shanks

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## Amon Lancelot (May 11, 2016)

Bambino said:


> we don't know how long the fight lasted


Exactly, it could have lasted any amount off time from a few minutes to 10 days. There's not enough info to conclude Jack.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Amon Lancelot (May 11, 2016)

Bambino said:


> the fact he lost no strenght or so the databooks say.


IIRC, the word was standing, which refers to status, influence and political power, not combat ability.

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## Amon Lancelot (May 11, 2016)

Bambino said:


> Yes. Nothing but portrayal and shounen tropes which OP is not exempt. Pardon the reach, but the fact that a Yonko who mind you had an Admiral level in his crew took it upon himself to personally drop in on him, shows at the very least he is an enemy capable of facing that level threat. Mihawks hype is that he often sought out Shanks to fight............... 12 years ago & refused duels once he lost his arm. Inspite of the fact he lost no strenght or so the databooks say.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oda mentioned Shanks, Whitebeard and Mihawk in the same breath as legends among men.

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## Spirit King (May 11, 2016)

Amon Lancelot said:


> Mihawk stated the Shichibukai are equal in power to Marine HQ


And Kaidou basically said the Shichibukai ain't shit, and looking at the feats for most of the previous ones he isn't wrong. Only 3 of the original shichibukai are notable powerful at this point, with around 3 confirmed to users of haki (though kuma probably has it, but he's also lost his brain and the number shifts as the plot drop and are added). The chance of the Shichibukai past and present being equal to 3 admirals and the fleet admiral is pretty low.


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## hokageyonkou (May 11, 2016)

Mihawk extreme diff.


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## Nox (May 13, 2016)

Amon Lancelot said:


> The duels he had with Shanks which echoed throughout the Grand Line?



A legitimate pre TS fight between Luffy and one of the more established Supernova would echo through the Grandline. Its a figure of speech detonating the amount of clout and each fighter possessed at that point in time. It doesn't translate to their power levels. Every single one of Luffy's fights bar Foxy have been enough to shake their respective seas. Hence the WG's need to cover it up.



Amon Lancelot said:


> Oda mentioned Shanks, Whitebeard and Mihawk in the same breath as legends among men.



*D: Hey, Oda! In all of these fight scenes, why doesn't anybody go for the men's groins? Doesn't that seem like the quickest path to victory?*
*O:* True, that is a vital area. Just imagine legends among men--Whitebeard, Shanks, Mihawk--staring each other down, bearing their weighty ideals...and trying to whack each other in the balls! *IS THAT THE KIND OF MANGA YOU WANT TO READ?!*

Whitebeard = World Strongest Man
Shanks = Yonko, MC idol, reknowned recurring fan favourite, 
Mihawk = World Strongest Swordman

A legend is made by the sum in parts of the total which mainly constitute of their actions and achievements. No where did he imply that these men share the same piece of pie when it comes to power.



Amon Lancelot said:


> IIRC, the word was standing, which refers to status, influence and political power, not combat ability.



I've scoured the net looking for actual scan but couldn't find a panel. The actual location for the statement is in One Piece; Grand Characters (Red). It states that Shanks is a Top Tier swordsman and didn't lose any power despite having his arm bit of. The context of the message was in regards to his swordsmanship as in the same breadth it had mentioned Mihawk was number one. Hence the mention of his TT status.



Amon Lancelot said:


> Doffy begs to differ





1. You didn't exactly counter my point. The major factions of the universe are Pirate, Marines and recently Revolutionaries. Warlord so happen to be pirates who exchange service for liberties. Ruling involves invoking one's will and desire of a region which by definition encapsulates the existence of a Yonko. They have the physical, military and political power.* DD questions whether there will be a paradigm shift in the power players in the NW & what means will be deployed to do hence the betryals and Thrones Wars. *

2. The context of what you quoted was on who immediately replaced WB WSM title. The most logical choice would be BB and Luffy but both are work in progress. In which case I gave all three groups a shot at the title. The very nature of the story requires that the Yonko be the best that the pirate faction offers meaning anyone under that umbrella irrespective of individual or group be less than them so no matter how you argue it Warlord in their current state ruling the NW is moot.* WTF is the point of this quote man?*



Amon Lancelot said:


> Mihawk stated the Shichibukai are equal in power to Marine HQ



Do you have a panel justifying this claim or should we just believe it? Last time power equivalence was mentioned was when Garp stated power balance exists between Yonko - Marines - Warlods. Mandatory Link:  




Amon Lancelot said:


> Luffy is surpassing Roger not Shanks



N*gga you jus gon act like Luffy hasn't stated since the beginning of OP that his dream was to surpass Shanks and he'd get a crew that would rival his? You really tryna make it seem like Shanks is not the one man he aspires to be and  that this lil n*gga didn't settle on the PK title as a means of showing it. In its premise Luffy pushing his limits to become a greater version of Shanks + Redhaired Pirates. However, the story evolved to include an underlying aspect (will, dream and freedom), one which has seen Luffy chase and attain feats far greater than any of his peers and deemed him worthy of an antagonist befitting his title chase and serve as a foil to his character (BB). Luffy's intention to surpass Shanks is indirectly leading him to surpass Rodger.



Amon Lancelot said:


> Exactly, it could have lasted any amount off time from a few minutes to 10 days. There's not enough info to conclude Jack.



In OP you are your feats/potryal as one is more objective than the other we tend to rely on feats. However, I'll take the portrayal of fighting two legitimate legendary Top Tier. Interestingly when searching for the bit about Shank's I stumbled on this: . According to one of the databooks Shiki wasn't a pushover boy could hang with Rodger unexpected storm notwithstanding


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## HisMajestyMihawk (May 14, 2016)

Amon Lancelot said:


> Luffy is surpassing Roger not Shanks



^This

even Sanji will surpass Shanks who is only a 4cows


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## Veltpunch (May 14, 2016)

@Bambino: Still the best gifs in the game, I see.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Nox (May 14, 2016)

Veltpunch said:


> @Bambino: Still the best gifs in the game, I see.






Im MJ with the GIFS


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