# Kirin vs Fuuton: Rasenshuriken



## RedChidori (Sep 1, 2013)

If Sasuke's Kirin collided with Naruto's Rasenshuriken, which jutsu would overpower the other? I'm going with Kirin since it is natural lightning.


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## Rain (Sep 1, 2013)

Kirin would easily penetrate through Fuuton:Rasenshuriken.

It destroyed lvl 2/3 Susano'o.


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## Ashi (Sep 1, 2013)

Rasenshuriken has similiar DC but the elemental advantage goes to rasenshuriken


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## Blu-ray (Sep 1, 2013)

Rasenshuriken does have an elemental advantage, but there are times when a technique with the disadvantage can win in a clash. While Kirin has more destructive power, Rasenshuriken most likely can win though.


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## Rain (Sep 1, 2013)

How the fuck is Rasenshuriken stopping a lightning coming down from the sky?


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## richard lewis (Sep 1, 2013)

Rain said:


> How the fuck is Rasenshuriken stopping the lightning coming down from the sky?



wind>lightning...... At the very least FRS would diffuse it.


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## Rain (Sep 1, 2013)

richard lewis said:


> wind>lightning...... At the very least FRS would diffuse it.



More like Chakra < Nature.


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## Jak N Blak (Sep 1, 2013)

If the FRS expands once it collides. Kirin is done.


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## Ashi (Sep 1, 2013)

Rain said:


> More like Chakra < Nature.



Says who? 

10chars


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## Tsunami (Sep 1, 2013)

Wind > Lightning Rasenshuriken is powerful enough to stop it with the elemental advantage.


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## Ersa (Sep 2, 2013)

In terms of pure DC, Kirin is superior however with the elemental advantage FRS comes out on top as it's no slouch in terms of potency/firepower.


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## ueharakk (Sep 2, 2013)

Fuuton Rasenshuriken cancels kirin (at least the one that was used on itachi).

It has the elemental advantage so it doesn't have to be as strong as kirin in order to do so.

Powerwise, if it's not at Kirin's level, it's pretty close as a SM FRS is more powerful than 25 SM Chou oodama rasengans each stated by databook to be capable of hollowing a mountain and backed up by feats of smaller rasengans vs landscape.

FRS also encompassed half of the chibaku tensei crater in its AoE, the chibaku tensei crater being multiple kilometers in diameter.

Finally, Danzou's fuuton blew open the back of sasuke's lvl3 susanoo.  FRS is on another level of power than that attack while Kirin only managed to vaporize itachi's susanoo, it couldn't kill him as well.  Thus unless Itachi used a V4 susanoo and yaata to block kirin, FRS wouldn't have been far off in damage.

So, the techniques are at worst not far off in power, FRS has the elemental advantage which means it'll probably cancel kirin.


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## Bonly (Sep 2, 2013)

I'd go with Kirin as it use natural lighting.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 2, 2013)

Bonly said:


> I'd go with Kirin as it use natural lighting.


Natural water is stronger than other suitons then? Or natural earth? Or natural wind? 

Rasenshuriken has the elemental advantage, and is either powered by Senjutsu (actually powered by the power of the earth) or Kurama's chakra.


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## Bonly (Sep 2, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Natural water is stronger than other suitons then? Or natural earth? Or natural wind?




Depends on the fashion they are used like with Kirin or Sando. 



> Rasenshuriken has the elemental advantage, and is either powered by Senjutsu (actually powered by the power of the earth) or Kurama's chakra.



You left out the part where elemental advantage doesn't outright chose which jutsu wins or loses alone as well that FRS can be powered by his own base chakra.


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## DaVizWiz (Sep 2, 2013)

I believe Kirin is simply too large for FRS to diffuse. The dragon itself before it's drop down is significantly larger than the FRS AoE post-explosion. When it actually does drop, the stream is still astronomically massive, when we take the speed of it into account I don't believe FRS will do much against it. 

These are the collective scans showing it's size  [2] [3].

It's overwhelmingly obvious that FRS, an attack that Naruto deploys in close quarters a second before explosion and escapes damage entirely does not showcase the scale at which Kirin envelops. Sasuke would have no chance avoiding the AoE of Kirin if the epicenter of the strike was 100m away- Naruto's FRS has detonated- on several occasions- less than 20m away from him [4] [5] [6]. In all three captions, when you compare the size of Naruto standing near it- it's actually quite small. You can't even see Sasuke's body compared to the stream of lightning pouring down in this caption [3]- he's supposed to be standing atop the rectangular pillar which remain undamaged (see scan 2)- unlike 70% of the landscape in that scan. Sasuke looks like a fucking dot in the 2nd scan, the one where the pillar is zoomed in and drawn up close with the dragon. In the 3rd scan, the entire landscape is drawn from AC130 view and the pillar looks to be about 2% of the entire caption- this attack is fucking massive compared to the pillar size, and consequently Sasuke's own body- which was a fucking dot on a zoomed-in look at the pillar. 

FRS pales in comparison to the scale and total power of Kirin. It's pure mathematics- most of the bolt actually bypasses the total AoE of the exploding FRS- it's just too small- FRS is the chocolate chip in the center of the Kirin cookie. I would venture to say the part of the bolt that does encounter the wind sphere's AoE actually penetrates and overpowers it as the stream is simply too large and long to lose out.


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## Gaifangirl24 (Sep 2, 2013)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> Says who?
> 
> 10chars



Zetsu


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## Ashi (Sep 2, 2013)

Gaifangirl24 said:


> Zetsu



So I guess a lightning bolt > rasenshuriken?


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## ueharakk (Sep 2, 2013)

Gaifangirl24 said:


> Zetsu



all that means is that a kirin done with natural lightning will be on a totally different scale than a kirin done using the user's own raiton chakra not that kirin > any other attack that uses chakra.


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## zimmawannatuba (Sep 2, 2013)

FRS is at least as powerful, and has the elemental advantage.
The winner is clear...


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## iJutsu (Sep 2, 2013)

FRS can bust mountains. I've never heard of lightning ever doing that.


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## Raiken (Sep 2, 2013)

FRS has the Elemental Advantage. However, it's clear that Kirin, is a little bit more powerful.
So they'll probably just cancel each other out. But I'm leaning towards the speed and power advantage of Kirin.

If it's a battle, and not just who would win.
If Naruto gets of a Rasen Shuriken early on, he could take out Sasuke before he manages to fully set up Kirin due to it's large prep-time.
But if he doesn't manage to get him. He would be forced to try and collide a FRS against Kirin, or block it holding FRS upwards.

In the case of Blocking and Colliding Naruto gets damaged most of the time, possibly killed anyhow.

Kirin takes this in regards to power and what's a stronger Jutsu.

But in regards to what is more useful, Rasen Shuriken can be used at any point, with next to no prep time, and can be used multiple times.

In regards to what's a more useful Jutsu: Rasen Shuriken wins.


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## Ashi (Sep 2, 2013)

Naruto's rasenshuriken broke a juubi tail


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## zimmawannatuba (Sep 2, 2013)

Cryorex said:


> FRS has the Elemental Advantage. However, it's clear that Kirin, is a little bit more powerful.
> So they'll probably just cancel each other out. But I'm leaning towards the speed and power advantage of Kirin.
> 
> If it's a battle, and not just who would win.
> ...



Clear to you sasuke fanboys maybe, but not to the real world.

Even if you were delusional enough to say it is a little more powerful, then the elemental advantage easily has it win.


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## Raiken (Sep 2, 2013)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> Naruto's rasenshuriken broke a juubi tail


Backed by a Chakra Phoenix of linked together Chakra Cloaks, with the Rasen Shuriken as the spear head.


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## Raiken (Sep 2, 2013)

zimmawannatuba said:


> Clear to you sasuke fanboys maybe, but not to the real world.
> 
> Even if you were delusional enough to say it is a little more powerful, then the elemental advantage easily has it win.


Krin is far, far faster.
Has more area of effect.
And doesn't have to hit it's target to initiate it's explosion, the attack is almost the size of the area of effect, from the moment it's used.

Rasen Shuriken just has an Elemental Advantage on it's side, and it's unique trait of Cellular level damage.
But it's not enough, at least in my oppinion, to out-weight the power advantage Kirin has.

Sure Rasen Shuriken is generally a more versatile and useful Jutsu.
But Kirin is a more powerful Jutsu.


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## Ashi (Sep 2, 2013)

Cryorex said:


> Backed by a Chakra Phoenix of linked together Chakra Cloaks, with the Rasen Shuriken as the spear head.



Naruto was the tip so he did break it 

It's not like the bird a trampoline


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## Ashi (Sep 2, 2013)

iJutsu said:


> F*RS can bust mountains*. I've never heard of lightning ever doing that.



Can you prove the bolded


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## egressmadara (Sep 2, 2013)

Kirin destroyed that hill the brothers were fighting on. 
Although Rasen Shuriken does damage on a deeper level, if it were generated by anyone other than BM Naruto, then Kirin would devastate it in destructive power.


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## zimmawannatuba (Sep 2, 2013)

Cryorex said:


> Krin is far, far faster.
> Has more area of effect.
> And doesn't have to hit it's target to initiate it's explosion, the attack is almost the size of the area of effect, from the moment it's used.
> 
> ...



How does a lightning bolt have a large effect or an explosion?

FRS is much stronger, and has an elemental advantage.


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## Axiom (Sep 2, 2013)

does pretty well to summarize the destructive power of Kirin.  Literal mountain buster.  Anyway, Kirin should win out, but I don't really get how FRS could actually clash with Kirin.  Kirin is just a massive, concentrated bolt of lightning from the sky.  It comes down to the earth in like a hundredth of a second.  So Nardo throws up FRS, Sasuke lets it get up about halfway to Kirin before launching Kirin, the two jutsu meet, and then Kirin continues to go down and obliterates Nardo before FRS even has a chance to explode.

Kirin dwarfs the compacted FRS, it's going to just hit the ground before a reaction can even occur between the two attacks.


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## zimmawannatuba (Sep 2, 2013)

Axiom said:


> does pretty well to summarize the destructive power of Kirin.  Literal mountain buster.  Anyway, Kirin should win out, but I don't really get how FRS could actually clash with Kirin.  Kirin is just a massive, concentrated bolt of lightning from the sky.  It comes down to the earth in like a hundredth of a second.  So Nardo throws up FRS, Sasuke lets it get up about halfway to Kirin before launching Kirin, the two jutsu meet, and then Kirin continues to go down and obliterates Nardo before FRS even has a chance to explode.
> 
> Kirin dwarfs the compacted FRS, it's going to just hit the ground before a reaction can even occur between the two attacks.



Bad manga art is bad.
Watch the anime for a clear picture of events.

That isn't even a fucking mountain.
I thought you of all people would know Baroxio has no clue what he is talking about.


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## PopoTime (Sep 2, 2013)

Rain said:


> More like Chakra < Nature.



Kakashi's Raikiri split a lightning bolt in half.

Nature clearly isnt more powerful than chakra in certain scenarios.

Raikiri is a piercing attack, yet was able to split lightning in half,

FRS is a cutting attack, and has the type advantage so should be able to do the same thing.


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## Ashi (Sep 2, 2013)

zimmawannatuba said:


> Bad manga art is bad.
> Watch the anime for a clear picture of events.
> 
> That isn't even a fucking mountain.
> I thought you of all people would know Baroxio has no clue what he is talking about.



Manga > anime?

Since when?


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## ATastyMuffin (Sep 2, 2013)

I'm not sure if it's official, but Kirin was recently downgraded from , to half its value, 4.72 megatons. It's not exactly a 'mountain-buster' no, but it's strong enough to be labelled low-city level, which is quite impressive within the scope of Kage-level shinobi. In any case, it's stronger than a senjutsu-powered Rasenshuriken which, when detonated in an uncompressed explosion, was calculated at 3.8 megatons. 

Kirin is slightly stronger. However, it's possible that the elemental advantage that the Rasenshuriken holds may counter its superiority.


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## Axiom (Sep 2, 2013)

zimmawannatuba said:


> Bad manga art is bad.
> Watch the anime for a clear picture of events.
> 
> That isn't even a fucking mountain.
> I thought you of all people would know Baroxio has no clue what he is talking about.



Baroxio and I may have our disagreements, but I don't at all think he is clueless.  But even if I did, that's beside the point.  At no point in his post did he inject his opinion into the equation; he showed that Sasuke was a speck when compared to the pillar, and that the pillar was quite small compared to the structure on top of which it was located.  The surrounding area was leveled by Kirin.

Granted, the structure was still _there_ afterwards, as that is where Itachi and Oro did battle, but Kirin was clearly absolutely massive.  I don't think FRS packs as much destructive power.

Also, it strikes me as funny that a pokemon battle was so destructive according to the OBD calcs.  Whatever doe


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## ueharakk (Sep 2, 2013)

Axiom said:


> Baroxio and I may have our disagreements, but I don't at all think he is clueless.  But even if I did, that's beside the point.  At no point in his post did he inject his opinion into the equation; he showed that Sasuke was a speck when compared to the pillar, and that the pillar was quite small compared to the structure on top of which it was located.  The surrounding area was leveled by Kirin.
> 
> Granted, the structure was still _there_ afterwards, as that is where Itachi and Oro did battle, but Kirin was clearly absolutely massive.  I don't think FRS packs as much destructive power.
> 
> Also, it strikes me as funny that a pokemon battle was so destructive according to the OBD calcs.  Whatever doe



can you please respond to the post that I've made earlier in this thread because it kind of counters yours.


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## Axiom (Sep 2, 2013)

I think Kirin will come to the ground too fast for FRS to actually detonate and counter it.  It's too large for the non-expanded FRS to stop in its tracks.


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## Jagger (Sep 2, 2013)

Well, a FRS: Odama Rasengan seems a wiser choice than throwing a FRS. But I'd guess they would cancel each other.


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## ueharakk (Sep 2, 2013)

Axiom said:


> I think Kirin will come to the ground too fast for FRS to actually detonate and counter it.  It's too large for the non-expanded FRS to stop in its tracks.



So it's not a matter of power, but a matter of attack mechanics?

But why would it not explode the moment it makes contact with the lightning?


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## Axiom (Sep 2, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> So it's not a matter of power, but a matter of attack mechanics?
> 
> But why would it not explode the moment it makes contact with the lightning?



Yes

And it would, I guess, but Kirin hits the ground faster than FRS explodes.  If speed was equalized, I may give this to FRS, but honestly I just don't think Kirin can be countered by a jutsu like FRS.  Maybe if FRS was a continuous powerful stream of wind, but even if it detonates as soon as Kirin comes into contact with it, Kirin touches the ground more or less instantaneously.  FRS can't explode in time.

Just my opinion doe


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## ueharakk (Sep 2, 2013)

Axiom said:


> Yes
> 
> And it would, I guess, but Kirin hits the ground faster than FRS explodes.  If speed was equalized, I may give this to FRS, but honestly I just don't think Kirin can be countered by a jutsu like FRS.  Maybe if FRS was a continuous powerful stream of wind, but even if it detonates as soon as Kirin comes into contact with it, Kirin touches the ground more or less instantaneously.  FRS can't explode in time.
> 
> Just my opinion doe



cool cool.  we'll just have to wait and see what naruto needs in order to counter sasuke's kirin when they fight.


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## zimmawannatuba (Sep 2, 2013)

Axiom said:


> Baroxio and I may have our disagreements, but I don't at all think he is clueless.  But even if I did, that's beside the point.  At no point in his post did he inject his opinion into the equation; he showed that Sasuke was a speck when compared to the pillar, and that the pillar was quite small compared to the structure on top of which it was located.  The surrounding area was leveled by Kirin.
> 
> Granted, the structure was still _there_ afterwards, as that is where Itachi and Oro did battle, but Kirin was clearly absolutely massive.  I don't think FRS packs as much destructive power.
> 
> Also, it strikes me as funny that a pokemon battle was so destructive according to the OBD calcs.  Whatever doe



It is just a lightning bolt he directs at someone.
Lightning does not explode.


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## Ashi (Sep 2, 2013)

Axiom said:


> Yes
> 
> And it would, I guess, but Kirin hits the ground faster than FRS explodes.  If speed was equalized, I may give this to FRS, but honestly I just don't think Kirin can be countered by a jutsu like FRS.  Maybe if FRS was a continuous powerful stream of wind, but even if it detonates as soon as Kirin comes into contact with it, Kirin touches the ground more or less instantaneously.  FRS can't explode in time.
> 
> Just my opinion doe



Pretty sure a thrown rasenshuriken is faster than lightning but then again I'm using calcs from OBD


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## ATastyMuffin (Sep 2, 2013)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> Pretty sure a thrown rasenshuriken is faster than lightning but then again I'm using calcs from OBD



Lightning can reach triple to quadruple-digit Machs. Sage Naruto`s thrown Rasenshuriken is only Mach 40.


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## Raiken (Sep 2, 2013)

Cho-Oodama FRS VS Kirin?

If an FRS, produced from a normal sized Rasengan, makes an explosion this big.

And Cho-Oodama FRS is this big.

Like the Cho-Oodama FRS it self, is almost as big as the standard FRS explosion.
So we can probably expect the explosion to follow the same level of scaling.


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## Chad (Sep 2, 2013)

I would say a Sage FRS has the power to cancel out. Although a normal frs or a kcm frs cant since its tremendously weaker than a senjutsu enhanced frs.


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## wooly Eullerex (Sep 2, 2013)

kirin would trade a stalemate w/ Jinton.

the only reason to even consider the match ITT seriously is out of respect 4 the notion of ''sage chakra/natural energy''.

I will say that I don't think the FRS/user would suffer a complete, debilitating or even a decisive loss; the fireworks would look cool on both ends~


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## KeyofMiracles (Sep 3, 2013)

iJutsu said:


> *FRS can bust mountains.* I've never heard of lightning ever doing that.



Not even close.


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Sep 3, 2013)

Kirin busted a mountain. When has rasenshuriken been shown to do that? I don't think the elemental advantage is enough to overcome the sheer dc difference.


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## ueharakk (Sep 3, 2013)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> Kirin busted a mountain. When has rasenshuriken been shown to do that? I don't think the elemental advantage is enough to overcome the sheer dc difference.



Powerwise, if it's not at Kirin's level, it's pretty close as a SM FRS is more powerful than 25 SM Chou oodama rasengans each stated by databook to be capable of hollowing a mountain and backed up by feats of smaller rasengans vs landscape.

FRS also encompassed half of the chibaku tensei crater in its AoE, the chibaku tensei crater being multiple kilometers in diameter.

Finally, Danzou's fuuton blew open the back of sasuke's lvl3 susanoo.  FRS is on another level of power than that attack while Kirin only managed to vaporize itachi's susanoo, it couldn't kill him as well.  Thus unless Itachi used a V4 susanoo and yaata to block kirin, FRS wouldn't have been far off in damage.

So, the techniques are at worst not far off in power, FRS has the elemental advantage which means it'll probably cancel kirin.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 3, 2013)

Lol. Its like asking what would happen if a rasengan collided with a bijuudama.

Kirin by a motherucking landslide.


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## zimmawannatuba (Sep 3, 2013)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> Kirin busted a mountain. When has rasenshuriken been shown to do that? I don't think the elemental advantage is enough to overcome the sheer dc difference.



#1 That wasn't a mountain.  Duh.
#2 It did nothing to that weak dome structure.  
#3 Lightning does not explode.



Grimmjowsensei said:


> Lol. Its like asking what would happen if a rasengan collided with a bijuudama.
> 
> Kirin by a motherucking landslide.



Ignorance of the nth level.
Sad, just sad.

I guess you think it blew up a mountain too, lol.


Have any of you guys, idk ever went outside?
Lightning strikes the earth all the time.


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 3, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> Fuuton Rasenshuriken cancels kirin (at least the one that was used on itachi).
> 
> It has the elemental advantage so it doesn't have to be as strong as kirin in order to do so.
> 
> ...



 That just means that cutting attacks work great on Susanoo, not forces that destroy things on contact like Kirin does.

 As for the OP, Kirin can probably demolish it considering Kirin is a huge force at contact whilst being extremely fast, FRS may not have enough time to even expand IMO.


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## johnsuwey (Sep 3, 2013)

NarutoX28 said:


> That just means that cutting attacks work great on Susanoo, not forces that destroy things on contact like Kirin does.
> 
> As for the OP, Kirin can probably demolish it considering Kirin is a huge force at contact whilst being extremely fast, FRS may not have enough time to even expand IMO.



Kirin doesn't destroy things on impact.  
It is merely a natural lightning bolt that sasuke can direct.  

That wasn't a cutting technique used by Danzo.  it was a huge suction of air that was exposing Sasuke.


When has either of those things been stated in the series?  
Equivalent Water techniques don't lose to fire, because the technique is faster or devastating on impact.


The wind has the elemental advantage, and is at least as high level of technique, probably far higher.
FRS wins hands down.  Anything else is just fan depicted delusions.


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## ueharakk (Sep 3, 2013)

NarutoX28 said:


> That just means that cutting attacks work great on Susanoo, not forces that destroy things on contact like Kirin does.


Nope, in order for that to be true, you'd have to show an attack that was the equivalent of danzou's fuuton in power, yet wasn't a cutting attack netted a smaller damage yield than danzou's fuuton. 

Else anyone could make any claim that X attack was 'super effective' against X defense in order to explain away why a X attack isn't stronger than Y attack.

And since you haven't addressed my other points, i take it you agree that FRS with its elemental advantage has the power to counter Kirin.


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## johnsuwey (Sep 3, 2013)

Rasengan is the ultimate in shape manipulation.
Which makes FRS the ultimate offensive ninjutsu in the series.  Aside, from maybe OP eye techniques.

Now it loses to some shit lightning bolt that Kakashi beat as a kid with chidori?!?
Come on people!

You are even ignoring the elemental advantage!


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 3, 2013)

johnsuwey said:


> Rasengan is the ultimate in shape manipulation.
> Which makes FRS the ultimate offensive ninjutsu in the series.  Aside, from maybe OP eye techniques.
> 
> Now it loses to some shit lightning bolt that Kakashi beat as a kid with chidori?!?
> ...



Kirin isn't just lightning. 

It is a huge, shape manipulated lightning. If looks is an indicator of anything, a giant dragon shaped lightning is more advanced than a fucking sphere of chakra.



zimmawannatuba said:


> Sad, just sad.



Whats sad is I can't neg you again...

yet


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## johnsuwey (Sep 3, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Kirin isn't just lightning.
> 
> It is a huge, shape manipulated lightning. If looks is an indicator of anything, a giant dragon shaped lightning is more advanced than a fucking sphere of chakra.
> 
> ...



A dragon's face appears in the water in some techniques too.  
Doesn't mean much, that is like C rank shit.

Kakashi has dog appear in his walls.
They are throwing pictures everywhere.

Rasengan is A rank.
FRS is over S rank.

Kirin might be A rank.


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 3, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> Nope, in order for that to be true, you'd have to show an attack that was the equivalent of danzou's fuuton in power, yet wasn't a cutting attack netted a smaller damage yield than danzou's fuuton.
> 
> Else anyone could make any claim that X attack was 'super effective' against X defense in order to explain away why a X attack isn't stronger than Y attack.
> 
> And since you haven't addressed my other points, i take it you agree that FRS with its elemental advantage has the power to counter Kirin.



 Except for the fact that V2 Raikage can't even break through Sasuke's Partial Susanoo and only crack the bones while Danzo uses a simple Fuuton jutsu and cuts through V2 Susanoo while Kirin can bust through Itachi's Susanoo?

 Ok, sorry if I implied Kirin > FRS.


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## johnsuwey (Sep 3, 2013)

NarutoX28 said:


> Except for the fact that V2 Raikage can't even break through Sasuke's Partial Susanoo and only crack the bones while Danzo uses a simple Fuuton jutsu and cuts through V2 Susanoo while Kirin can bust through Itachi's Susanoo?
> 
> Ok, sorry if I implied Kirin > FRS.



So this whole false ideas is based on Susanoo?
That is nonsense.

Kirin didn't bust through V1 of susanoo.
Itachi was fine, other than the backlash of using another MS technique.


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 3, 2013)

^ It damaged Susanoo which was my whole point.

 Raikages hits are definitely stronger than Danzo's yet Raikage could only crack a Partial Susanoo which is far inferior to Itachi's V4 Susanoo.


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## ueharakk (Sep 3, 2013)

johnsuwey said:


> So this whole false ideas is based on Susanoo?
> That is nonsense.


er did you actually read my post?  Because i clearly used susanoo as just ONE example to show how the techniques are comparable in power.



johnsuwey said:


> Kirin didn't bust through V1 of susanoo.
> Itachi was fine, other than the backlash of using another MS technique.



Kirin did bust through an UNKNOWN version of susanoo as Susanoo was both gone after the attack and itachi was damaged as his robe was incinerated by the blast.

On the other hand, Danzou's fuuton didn't even touch sasuke and only blew open the back of susanoo, the entire construct was still functional and in tact.



NarutoX28 said:


> Except for the fact that V2 Raikage can't even break through Sasuke's Partial Susanoo and only crack the bones while Danzo uses a simple Fuuton jutsu and cuts through V2 Susanoo while Kirin can bust through Itachi's Susanoo?
> 
> Ok, sorry if I implied Kirin > FRS.


V2 Raikage did break throuh Sasuke's partial susanoo, and he did it rather easily.  It was V1 Raikage who couldn't break through ribcage susanoo.  You calling Danzou's fuuton "a simple fuuton jutsu" doesn't mean anything in regards to its power.




NarutoX28 said:


> ^ It damaged Susanoo which was my whole point.
> 
> *Raikages hits are definitely stronger than Danzo's* yet Raikage could only crack a Partial Susanoo which is far inferior to Itachi's V4 Susanoo.



What in the world is the bolded based off of?  Rakage's physical hits are more powerful than Danzou's most powerful fuuton amplified by baku's sunction?  When was that ever implied in the manga?


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## johnsuwey (Sep 3, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> er did you actually read my post?  Because i clearly used susanoo as just ONE example to show how the techniques are comparable in power.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Itachi only had an instant.  That Susanoo was base form at best.
Itachi was burned by the fire attack earlier.


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## ueharakk (Sep 3, 2013)

johnsuwey said:


> Itachi only had an instant.  That Susanoo was base form at best.
> Itachi was burned by the fire attack earlier.



Don't ignore the points i make in my post, else ignored points are conceded ones.  Itachi's arm was burned by the fire attack earlier, but his COAT was incinerated by kirin.

Only closeups of itachi's face were shown before kirin hit, thus we don't know if he was forming it during that time.

Itachi has formed a V3 susanoo in an instant.

and finally, ribcage susanoo protecting itachi from kirin would be an inconsistent outlier among susanoo's other durability feats.


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## johnsuwey (Sep 3, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> Don't ignore the points i make in my post, else ignored points are conceded ones.  Itachi's arm was burned by the fire attack earlier, but his COAT was incinerated by kirin.
> 
> Only closeups of itachi's face were shown before kirin hit, thus we don't know if he was forming it during that time.
> 
> ...


What points?  You haven't made one yet...  What are these other kirin feats?

Maybe it flew off?  Incinerated seems a bit extreme.

Edo itachi, not 90% dead, out of chakra, drop dead tired, deathly ill Itachi.


No it wouldn't.  You are only assuming that, because you are hyping its destructive power to the extreme.


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## ueharakk (Sep 3, 2013)

johnsuwey said:


> What points?  You haven't made one yet...  What are these other kirin feats?
> 
> Maybe it flew off?  Incinerated seems a bit extreme.


really?  Itachi's coat flew off?



johnsuwey said:


> Edo itachi, not 90% dead, out of chakra, drop dead tired, deathly ill Itachi.


obviously he's not out of chakra as he was able to use V4 susanoo for quite some time after blocking kirin.

And since when does not being an edo and being ill have anything to do with how FAST you can errect susanoo?  Surely it has to do with how long you can hold the technique and how well ur body takes the strain, but when was it ever implied to affect the speed at which you could pull it up?



johnsuwey said:


> No it wouldn't.  You are only assuming that, because you are hyping its destructive power to the extreme.


Kirin destroyed that large hill sasuke and itachi were on. Can you show what compells you to believe that ribcage susanoo was enough to block that attack?


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## johnsuwey (Sep 3, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> really?  Itachi's coat flew off?
> 
> 
> obviously he's not out of chakra as he was able to use V4 susanoo for quite some time after blocking kirin.
> ...



Your thought that it incinerated is far less likely given he had no actual damage.

What maybe 1 minute, until he died of Chakra exhaustion?  
It also took him a good while to build up to that point.

Common sense? Based on previous, and future events.
Just an iota is required.


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## ueharakk (Sep 3, 2013)

johnsuwey said:


> Your thought that it incinerated is far less likely given he had no actual damage.


er itachi was face planted on the ground and was very slow to get up.  In shounen manga, people lose articles of clothing due to taking damage, not due to the article of clothing just flying off.  



johnsuwey said:


> What maybe 1 minute, until he died of Chakra exhaustion?
> It also took him a good while to build up to that point.


it wasn't necessary for him to go instant V3/4 susanoo after he blocked the attack and it was definitely longer than 1 minute of holding susanoo.  



johnsuwey said:


> Common sense? Based on previous, and future events.
> Just an iota is required.


well my stance is based on common sense, based on previous and future events.  So now that we have stated that both of our stances are based on those things, can you SHOW your reasoning and why you believe that based on common sense, previous and future events Kirin is as strong as you say it is.


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## wooly Eullerex (Sep 3, 2013)

johnsuwey said:


> Kirin might be A rank.



if ths happens, it would completely troll kishimotos literary intent.

It will be S-rank, unless the stuff they say about the fanbook interns is true


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 4, 2013)

johnsuwey said:


> A dragon's face appears in the water in some techniques too.
> Doesn't mean much, that is like C rank shit.
> 
> Kakashi has dog appear in his walls.
> ...



Fair enough. 

Although none of the techniques you mentioned are nearly as big or strong. 
Kirin, as noted by Zetsu, is beyond anything a Human can produce with their own chakra. Sasuke uses natural lightning as a medium and shape manipulates it.


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