# Pain Vs Obito.



## Trojan (Jun 26, 2013)

Location: destroyed Konoha
Distance: 20 meteres
Knowledge: None
State of mind: IC
Restrictions: None. 

Notes:- 

There shall be NO help from Kabuto, so no 6 jins
Obito has the Rinngan. However, he can't use any jutsu but  the jutsu he used at the end of the chapter
No GM sine both can use it
*************
I honestly think Pain stronger than obito now. Even IF obito sucked some paths inside the Kamui
they can attack him from both sides. I can't see how obito can win this. But lets see your opinions.


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## Joakim3 (Jun 26, 2013)

With now knowledge of on both sides.... this is really a toss up

Nagato's lack of Kamui is going to be massively detrimental, on the other hand Obito still has to deal with Rinnegan uber hax i.e revival, shared vision, _Shinra Tensei_ etc...

Obito needs his own _Pein Rikudo_ to win this comfortably


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## Bonly (Jun 26, 2013)

Obito should win more times then not. The paths aren't fast enough to land a hit on Obito and the paths can't force Obito to use Kamui for 5 minutes straight. Once Obito takes out Preta path and Deva path, its going to be an easy win for Obito.


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## Trojan (Jun 26, 2013)

Joakim3 said:


> With now knowledge of on both sides.... this is really a toss up
> 
> Nagato's lack of Kamui is going to be massively detrimental, on the other hand Obito still has to deal with Rinnegan uber hax i.e revival, shared vision, _Shinra Tensei_ etc...
> 
> Obito needs his own _Pein Rikudo_ to win this comfortably



I would have given him the Paths if they were his own, but they are not. and Kabuto
is not here to help him, so I decided that he needs to use his own power only. 



Bonly said:


> Obito should win more times then not. The paths aren't fast enough to land a hit on Obito and the paths can't force Obito to use Kamui for 5 minutes straight. Once Obito takes out Preta path and Deva path, its going to be an easy win for Obito.



and how he'll take them out? if he want to attack the other will attack him immediately.


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## Jagger (Jun 26, 2013)

A well timed chakra canon or a Shinra Tensei should screw up with Obito, the problem is that he's (Obito) a tricky pony. He can pretend he's about to take out Deva Path to force him to use Shinra Tensei, but he actually let it pass and absorbs him during the 5 seconds interval.


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## Bonly (Jun 26, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> and how he'll take them out? if he want to attack the other will attack him immediately.



He can use Mokuton/ ninja tool weapons to stab them and take them out with head shots. They aren't fast enough to land a hit and as we saw with Naruto, Nagato doesn't always send all of his paths to attack at once which can lead it to being easier to land said blow.


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## Trojan (Jun 26, 2013)

Bonly said:


> He can use Mokuton/ ninja tool weapons to stab them and take them out with head shots. They aren't fast enough to land a hit and as we saw with Naruto, *Nagato doesn't always send all of his paths to attack at once which can lead it to being easier to land said blow*.



1- but it's IC and that wood did not really work except against fodders. lol
and as we already saw Kakashi was supraior ti him in Taijutsu and speed this same kakashi
who couldn't deal with 2 of the paths.

2- I agree with the bold. However, don't you think obito will only try to suck them into his dimension?
that will actually make it easier for them to stomp him.


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## tanman (Jun 26, 2013)

What Bonly said.
Without the jins, I would favor Nagato, but I can't favor Pain. 
The paths just aren't up to snuff physically. Despite the ensuing rage from the most recent chapter, Obito is still the guy who fought on par with Minato, 6th Gated Gai, Kakashi, Killer Bee, KCM Naruto, and at his peak even BM Naruto.


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## Trojan (Jun 26, 2013)

tanman said:


> What Bonly said.
> Without the jins, I would favor Nagato, but I can't favor Pain.
> The paths just aren't up to snuff physically. Despite the ensuing rage from the most recent chapter, Obito is still the guy who fought on par with Minato, 6th Gated Gai, Kakashi, Killer Bee, KCM Naruto, and at his peak even BM Naruto.



1- No, he did not fight on par with Minato, he got his butt kicked in no time. 
2- and No he did not fight on par with the others, all what he was doing is running away
from them. he couldn't do anything to them. 

Also, pain is better than Nagato here because they are 6 which is PERFECT in such situation
like this,


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## Bonly (Jun 26, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> 1- but it's IC and that wood did not really work except against fodders. lol



If Obito used the same Mokuton he used on the fodder then he can likely take out a Path if he gets a head shot. 



> and as we already saw Kakashi was supraior ti him in Taijutsu and speed this same kakashi
> who couldn't deal with 2 of the paths.



Doesn't matter if Kakashi couldn't deal with the two paths, Kakashi didn't only use Taijutsu against the paths and vice verse so trying to use that against Obito is already flawed in reasoning. You also fail to realize that Obito has been fighting for hours upon hours. Obito has used Kamui a shitload of times, controlled the Jin paths(which was stated to use quite a bit of chakra), controlling the Juubi, and used massive size Katons as well as couldn't use Kamui like he normally would. If it was a fresh Obito fighting Kakashi in the normal world instead of the Kamui dimension then Kakashi would have lost the CQC match. 



> 2- I agree with the bold. However, don't you think obito will only try to suck them into his dimension?
> that will actually make it easier for them to stomp him.



No it wouldn't. They would need to be in the exact same spot as Obito is in the real world thus if he uses Kamui on a body part 20 meters from where he sucked up the path, the path would need to travel said distance. Since very few paths use high AoE attack Obito won't need to use Kamui for an extend amount of time, and once Obito takes out Deva path he can just suck up Preta path and then finish the rest off with his huge Katon eventually.


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## crystalblade13 (Jun 26, 2013)

you guys cant be serious. just because obito gets beaten in the manga by lolplot and lack of kamui, doesnt make it him fighting bm naruto, kakashi, and guy all at once when he wasnt limited by plot and lack of kamui.


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## Joakim3 (Jun 26, 2013)

Bonly said:


> He can use Mokuton/ ninja tool weapons to stab them and take them out with head shots. They aren't fast enough to land a hit and as we saw with Naruto, *Nagato doesn't always send all of his paths to attack at once which can lead it to being easier to land said blow.*



When IC *to kill* ....

Secondly all the paths bar the second Chikushodo have been consistently on the same speed tier as Kakashi, Gai & Killer B. If you factor in Nagato, better reflexes as well thanks to shared vision. The issue isn't speed as no amount helps when Obito can camp in _Kamui_ for minutes on end. 

It's about preventing Obito from getting into the position to wrap in the first place. If he can't wrap you safely then your safe-ish

If Obito can't wrap a path because he'll be intercepted by 5 other bodies covering it and each others backs at ALL times (one of which can hit him before he can react with _Kamui_) then he has to go about things quite differently 







I'm not saying Obito loses this.... but it's going to be an utter bitch fighting the _Pein Rikudo_ with zero knowledge


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## Bonly (Jun 26, 2013)

Joakim3 said:


> When IC *to kill* ....



He was IC to kill Jiraiya and yet he didn't bring out all the paths to attack. It took three paths getting beat to get to that point. As I said he *doesn't always* send in all the paths to attack at once, not saying he never does it.



> Secondly all the paths bar the second Chikushodo have been consistently on the same speed tier as Kakashi, Gai & Killer B. If you factor in Nagato, better reflexes as well thanks to shared vision. The issue isn't speed as no amount helps when Obito can camp in _Kamui_ for minutes on end.



I have no clue who this Chikushodo you speak of is.



> It's about preventing Obito from getting into the position to wrap in the first place. If he can't wrap you safely then your safe-ish



With no knowledge on Kamui while fighting in destroyed Konoha, Obito has the means to safely warp the path that he needs to.



> If Obito can't wrap a path because he'll be intercepted by 5 other bodies covering it and each others backs at ALL times (one of which can hit him before he can react with _Kamui_) then he has to go about things quite differently



If Nagato used the paths in such a fashion then I'd agree but since Nagato usually have the paths facing one general direction while watching another path, this leaves a good chance for Obito.



> Neither side is winning this with nothing less then extreme difficulty



I couldn't care less about the difficulty it takes for one to win a match.



> I'm not saying Obito loses this.... but it's going to be an utter bitch fighting the Pein Rikudo with zero knowledge



Obito has his own RInnegan and has been taught by Madara how to do the six path jutsu. Once he see that the paths have the the Rinnegan he'll know what jutsu they can do. Only thing Obito won't know is which path has which ability.


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## Joakim3 (Jun 26, 2013)

Only question I have is if Obito does wrap a path, does it just drop in his dimension or can Nagato still send chakra to it? 

- Chikushodo was still receiving chakra while in Jiraiya's _Kekkai: Gama Hyōrō_ (which imho would be considered a separate dimension)

- Obito still could send chakra to his _Pein Rikudo_ while inside _Kamui_ dimension

If the Paths remained animated in _Kamui_ well we'd have to take a second look at the outcome of said match-up


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## Joakim3 (Jun 26, 2013)

Bonly said:


> He was IC to kill Jiraiya and yet he didn't bring out all the paths to attack. It took three paths getting beat to get to that point. As I said he *doesn't always* send in all the paths to attack at once, not saying he never does it.



Thats fine, then it's up to our discretion to see how a completely ungimped _Pein Rikudo_ would act against a Rinnegan + Sharingan user....

I'd honestly side with "lets not take any chances... and go all out on this one"



Bonly said:


> I have no clue who this Chikushodo you speak of is.



Chikushodo is Animal Path, the second one (the female) lacked the physical ability to dodge FRS which is why Ningendo had to sacrifice itself to save her



Bonly said:


> With no knowledge on Kamui while fighting in destroyed Konoha, Obito has the means to safely warp the path that he needs to.


 
Obito has zero knowledge on which path does what (despite knowledge on the rinnegan itself), that is by no means safe. 

Let me ask you this, if Obito ignorantly targets Tendo first.... what happens then? 



Bonly said:


> If Nagato used the paths in such a fashion then I'd agree but since Nagato usually have the paths facing one general direction while watching another path, this leaves a good chance for Obito.



That's fine, which means he'd have to attack Jigukudo first as it's always the one furthest back, and seeing he'd use _Kamui_ to phase to Jigukudo location...... Nagato is going to know this isn't your "normal" ninjutsu. 

If Nagato see's _Kamui_ he's immediately changing fighting styles and covering every conceivable blind spot



Bonly said:


> I couldn't care less about the difficulty it takes for one to win a match.



to each his own



Bonly said:


> Obito has his own RInnegan and has been taught by Madara how to do the six path jutsu. Once he see that the paths have the the Rinnegan he'll know what jutsu they can do. Only thing Obito won't know is which path has which ability.



And we saw just how dangerous that was when Kakashi & Gai attempted to engage Obito's _Pein Rikudo_. Obito would have to literally bait each path into using their respective abilities to come up with a game plan, all while Nagato would be formalizing his


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## wooly Eullerex (Jun 26, 2013)

i voted pain cuz i believe ST would stun Kamui.


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## Grimm6Jack (Jun 26, 2013)

Pain wins for damn sure.

Obito dissapointed me... Such trash, ugh...


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## Nikushimi (Jun 26, 2013)

Obito warps a Pain body or two.

The rest gang-up on him.

Obito fazes.

The other bodies he just warped attack him from Box Land.

Obito uses Izanagi, maybe manages to kill a few Pains.

Pain just keeps reviving them. 

Izanagi wears off.

Obito gets raped.

Gfg.


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## Rocky (Jun 26, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> The other bodies he just warped attack him from Box Land.




You know that isn't viable unless Obito stands in one spot the entire match.

The body parts he sends to the box dimension appear only for very brief moments. Unless the Pain bodies happen to be extremely lucky with their placement, they will be far too slow to do anything.

It's also worth noting that Nagato probably doesn't have inter-dimensional control over the corpses, considering one path can't even fight at full potential unless he's a mile or two away from Nagato's actual body. Distance is certainly a factor in Pain's efficiency.


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## Nikushimi (Jun 26, 2013)

Rocky said:


> You know that isn't viable unless Obito stands in one spot the entire match.
> 
> The body parts he sends to the box dimension appear only for very brief moments. Unless the Pain bodies happen to be extremely lucky with their placement, they will be far too slow to do anything.
> 
> It's also worth noting that Nagato probably doesn't have inter-dimensional control over the corpses, considering one path can't even fight at full potential unless he's a mile or two away from Nagato's actual body. Distance is certainly a factor in Pain's efficiency.



Kakashi and Naruto were both able to find Obito's body on the other side. There's no reason to doubt Pain's ability to do the same, particularly if multiple bodies are warped and particularly with Pain having shared vision to coordinate attacks.


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## Nikushimi (Jun 26, 2013)

Although, now that I think about it, this strategy may not be viable for Pain.

If the bodies are sent to the Kamui dimension, that might sever the chakra connection that allows Nagato to animate them.

If that's the case, then they would be rendered inert on the other side.

Hmm...


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## Joakim3 (Jun 26, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> Although, now that I think about it, this strategy may not be viable for Pain.
> 
> If the bodies are sent to the Kamui dimension, that might sever the chakra connection that allows Nagato to animate them.
> 
> ...



The only counter argument is that Nagato's path (Chikushodo) was working in Jiraiya's _Kekkai: Gama Hyōrō_ which I think would comfortably in the category of "a different dimension" 

If Nagato's Paths work in Boxland... he fodder stomps Obito, if not well it becomes a debate if Nagato's _Pein Rikudo_ can consistently intercept Obito to prevents wraps on individual paths


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## Bonly (Jun 26, 2013)

Joakim3 said:


> Thats fine, then it's up to our discretion to see how a completely ungimped _Pein Rikudo_ would act against a Rinnegan + Sharingan user....
> 
> I'd honestly side with "lets not take any chances... and go all out on this one"



As long as you agree he doesn't always send in all six then we're good.




> Chikushodo is Animal Path, the second one (the female) lacked the physical ability to dodge FRS which is why Ningendo had to sacrifice itself to save her



I see, thank you my good sir.



> Obito has zero knowledge on which path does what (despite knowledge on the rinnegan itself), that is by no means safe.



True but the only paths which would be a problem for Obito figuring out what their ability is should be: Naraka,Preta, and Human path. The other three wouldn't be that hard to figure out.



> Let me ask you this, if Obito ignorantly targets Tendo first.... what happens then?



I have no clue who Tendo is.



> That's fine, which means he'd have to attack Jigukudo first as it's always the one furthest back, and seeing he'd use _Kamui_ to phase to Jigukudo location...... Nagato is going to know this isn't your "normal" ninjutsu.



I have no clue who Jigukudo.



> If Nagato see's _Kamui_ he's immediately changing fighting styles and covering every conceivable blind spot



If he did then that would be a help.



> And we saw just how dangerous that was when Kakashi & Gai attempted to engage Obito's _Pein Rikudo_. Obito would have to literally bait each path into using their respective abilities to come up with a game plan, all while Nagato would be formalizing his



Not really. Nagato's use of Asura path and Animal path makes it quite clear which those two paths are. And since more times then not Nagato favor to use those to early, Obito should find them out quickly. Whenever Deva uses his powers it's gonna be easy for Obito to know that Deva path is Deva path. 

Since Obito uses Kamui most of the time it would be hard for him to figure out preta paths ability until he went into CQC with Preta path which he may then be able to figure out that what ability Preta path has. Human paths ability don't come into play until Obito has been touched so unless Obito figures out all of the other path abilities, best he can do is narrow it down or either figure it once his soul is being sucked lol. Naraka path ability is basically the same deal as Human path.

With the way Nagato fights, Obito should be able to figure out half of the paths abilities without to much of a problem.


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## Turrin (Jun 26, 2013)

Obito wins. Kamui will allow Obito to phase through any of Pain's attacks. I do think Shared vision will help the Pain defend each other from Kamui warp or Obito's warp behind and attack combos for quite some time, but eventually I see Obito managing to get the upper hand and starting to defeat the bodies 1 by 1.

Also Obito's warp in Pain's case will probably outright deactivate the bodies as it seems doubtful that Nagato could maintain control over the bodies across dimensions. Though if he could accomplish this, one has to assume Obito would be aware of this and thus alter his strategy accordingly. The most basic alteration would be after warping one body he could just goto box land and finish that body off before target the next one to warp. Individually I'm pretty sure Obito can beat most bodies 1v1 even w/o the aid of Kamui. The only ones he might struggle with are Asura and Deva Realm. However he can leave Deva for last so he doesn't have to fight him in box land, & he can deal with Asura via other attacks rather than warp, such as Mokuton.

So I see Obito taking this with high difficulty more often than not. Perhaps extremely high difficulty if the bodies do not deactivate after being warped.


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## Rocky (Jun 26, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> Kakashi and Naruto were both able to find Obito's body on the other side. There's no reason to doubt Pain's ability to do the same, particularly if multiple bodies are warped and particularly with Pain having shared vision to coordinate attacks.



As soon as Tobi warped up Kakashi, Naruto send the fist of the Nine-Tails his way, causing him to phase immediately. with no time to relocate. So as I said, Kakashi was pretty much right there when Obito's torso popped up. It's going to be much more difficult to hit him in box-land when his body parts are appearing randomly all over the dimension.

Just think about that. By the time they spot anything, it'll be gone.


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## Jak N Blak (Jun 27, 2013)

You fuckers losing your shit or what? Obito would bury Pain.


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## Nikushimi (Jun 27, 2013)

Joakim3 said:


> The only counter argument is that Nagato's path (Chikushodo) was working in Jiraiya's _Kekkai: Gama Hyōrō_ which I think would comfortably in the category of "a different dimension"



I don't remember Chikushodou working in Jiraiya's Gama Hyoro; it looked like it was rendered inactive in there (we don't know when it stabbed Jiraiya; may have happened right when he pulled it into the gourd).

We also don't know where Gama Hyoro's space is located; is it another dimension or just somewhere far away like Myoubokuzan?



Rocky said:


> As soon as Tobi warped up Kakashi, Naruto send the fist of the Nine-Tails his way, causing him to phase immediately. with no time to relocate. So as I said, Kakashi was pretty much right there when Obito's torso popped up. It's going to be much more difficult to hit him in box-land when his body parts are appearing randomly all over the dimension.
> 
> Just think about that. By the time they spot anything, it'll be gone.



Unless Obito is jumping around hundreds of meters apart, his body parts should be appearing in roughly the same areas. Particularly if the other Pains attack in immediate succession to force Kamui.

Shared vision with the Pains on the other side should also help the ones in Box Land figure out the location where Obito will appear in advance.



Jak N Blak said:


> You fuckers losing your shit or what? Obito would bury Pain.



Obito couldn't bury his own excriment.


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## crystalblade13 (Jun 29, 2013)

just because obito gets bullshitted in one fight, he suddenly cant beat pain? 

he was holding his own against bm naruto, kakashi, and guy. his katons are bigger than the juubi. his blades pierce tailed beasts.

obito still murders him. damn, you haters are ludicrous.


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## Joakim3 (Jun 29, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> I don't remember Chikushodou working in Jiraiya's Gama Hyoro; it looked like it was rendered inactive in there (we don't know when it stabbed Jiraiya; may have happened right when he pulled it into the gourd).
> 
> We also don't know where Gama Hyoro's space is located; is it another dimension or just somewhere far away like Myoubokuzan?



If I recall correctly Jiraiya stated that Chikushodo charged into his barrier and the rest was history. One can assume Chikushodo didn't just appear halfway in a acidic acid pool with a chakra rod in Jiraiya's shoulder... i.e they scuffled (how long is a different story)

_Kekkai: Gama Hyōrō_ is located inside the frog Jiraiya had to exit when he wanted to confirm the paths faces (Chikushodo's body was stored inside the same frog to examine it in Konoha). I'd say it's damn near a parallel to _Kamui_ boxland being located "within" Obito/Kakashi's MS

Jiraiya's different frog "dimensions" are definitely closer to S/T techniques than we give them credit for


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## Edo Madara (Mar 20, 2014)

OP should replace rinnegan with sharingan for izanagi.

Both Nagato and Obito know each others abilities. Animal realm is basically useless in this fight since obito can controlled the animal summons and knowing that, Nagato won't take the risk.

Pain's best strategy is to use the other Pain bodies besides Deva and Asura as bait, when Obito touch one of pain bodies he's vulnerable to attacks from Asura or Deva. Pain takes this with high diff.

If Obito can used izanagi, my previous scenario still happened except he survived Pain's bait then wait for the right time to warp deva but I doubt it he can do it, he's still lose either way.




Nikushimi said:


> Kakashi and Naruto were both able to find Obito's body on the other side. There's no reason to doubt Pain's ability to do the same, particularly if multiple bodies are warped and particularly with Pain having shared vision to coordinate attacks.



Obito won't warped his opponents in the same position of his unless Kakashi teleported them himself, and Pain bodies will literally dead once they're entered Kamui land since Nagato's chakra won't reach them in other dimension.


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## Super Chief (Mar 20, 2014)

Obito mid difficulty.


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## Tarot (Mar 20, 2014)

With all the restrictions you gave Obito, you're essentially making it MS Obito vs Pain but some of these conditions seem contrived.
-How does Obito not have intel on the 6 Paths despite having a rinnegan himself?
-Actually if these 2 fought, the Gedo Mazo would obey Obito since Nagato lacks senju/uchiha DNA. 
-Restricting the GM would rob Obito of the ability to use jinchuriki paths anyway.

Considering all this, Pain beats MS Obito high diff.
War arc Obito may still win due to the fact that animal path would be inert due to Obito being able control the summons.


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## Edo Madara (Nov 27, 2014)

If Pain bodies send to kamui they will 'die' since chakra connection severed because different dimension. Summons will be controlled by sharingan, with or without knowledge Obito wins


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## Bonly (Nov 28, 2014)

I love how the same user post in the thread months after no one else does to "revive" the thread, not once but twice lol.


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## Trojan (Nov 28, 2014)

I'm actually surprised how s/he find this thread after 9 months.


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## Corax (Nov 28, 2014)

Yet Pain is still ahead, despite his outdated feats  (as his feats are of chapter 443), while Obito s are of chapter at least 600. So despite of 157 chapters of power leveling Obito is still behind. And on topic. The most dangerous path here is Animal path,as it can summon paths back from Kamuiland.


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