# hashirama>minato



## Missing_Nin (Feb 23, 2012)

can we all agree that the 4th wasn't the strongest kage.  being the father of the main character =/= auto strongest.


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## SageEnergyMode (Feb 23, 2012)

Umm, considering the 3rd hokage defeated an immortal Hashirama using the 4th's technique, I disagree.

Nothing anybody can say, no excuse they can make, will ever change this fact. Deny it, come up with excuses for how the fight was carried out, say whatever. The truth is the truth. Hashirama even had a brief heart to heart with his former student.

The 4th hokage is the greatest shinobi the village of konoha has ever produced. The goal for Naruto isn't to surpass the 1st Hokage, but to surpass the 4th, as Kakashi said. The Fourth Hokage is classified, even now after being dead after all these years, as someone who would have been the savior of the shinobi world, and since he left Naruto to do the job in his place, then Naruto has the task of playing the role of a savior. Naruto achieves the greatest power that we've ever witnessed from  him, and who is he immediately confused to be? The 4th Hokage.


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## Huey Freeman (Feb 23, 2012)

Minato seed grew up being BM Garuto
Harishima seeds seed   grew up being tsunade

/thread


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## SageEnergyMode (Feb 23, 2012)

Huey Freeman said:


> Minato seed grew up being BM Garuto
> Harishima seeds seed   grew up being tsunade
> 
> /thread



LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's sooo wrong.

Check out Hashirama after dealing with the Kyuubi.



To be fair, though, he was dealing with Madara, too, but the Kyuubi was Madara's ultimate trump card back then. Hashirama, even with the ability to control the Kyuubi and all his legendary strength, he still had one hell of a time dealing with the Kyuubi, obviously. Some are even going so far as to say that he's stronger than the current Naruto. Kurama is way stronger with Naruto than he is without.


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## navy (Feb 23, 2012)

These days, I wouldnt bother trying to rank the hokages. Hell apparently Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama. The debate is circular.


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## SageEnergyMode (Feb 23, 2012)

We have to view this thing in context. Orochimaru and Kabuto are apparently obsessed with bloodline limit abilities.

Hiruzen in his prime indeed surpassed the First and Second Hokages.


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## Huey Freeman (Feb 23, 2012)

the 1st had dna help in dealing with the kyuubi, Minato dealt with him with his own skill.


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## Addy (Feb 23, 2012)

maybe. kabuto as a hype source isnt that much. his hype is "those who heard stories about him". even oro's hype to itachi was still on his experiance and not "the openion of those who heard aboit itachi".

dont get me wrong. i hate minato and i have my posts to back me up but kabuto misunderestimated itachi and called his ET the best twice, and indicated that neo-madara is the strongest ever that he is ET now. so his hype to me = lol. especially that hiruzen kicked hashirame's ass. any addition to hashirame is like RS...... utter BS 

it saddens me cause i like hashirame but part 2 hype has been proven more than once ti be fucking over ratd


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## convict (Feb 23, 2012)

Huey Freeman said:


> the 1st had dna help in dealing with the kyuubi, Minato dealt with him with his own skill.



And Minato ended up dead while the first must have had a nice long sleep that night and woke up to a hearty breakfast.


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## auem (Feb 23, 2012)

Huey Freeman said:


> the 1st had dna help in dealing with the kyuubi, Minato dealt with him with his own skill.



it was not his own,but uzumaki clan skill...


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## Oga Tatsumi (Feb 23, 2012)

convict said:


> And Minato ended up dead while the first must have had a nice long sleep that night and woke up to a hearty breakfast.



Tobi and the Kyuubi don`t even scratched Miinato , Minato decided himself to protect Naruto from Kyuubi and Seal the Kyuubi


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## auem (Feb 23, 2012)

JCRUYFF said:


> Tobi and the Kyuubi don`t even scratched Miinato , *Minato decided himself to protect Naruto from Kyuubi and Seal the Kyuubi*



nope...minato decided to keep kyubi under konoha and let his son mastered it..hence he teleported it back to where kushina-naruto were...he could easily take the kyubi elsewhere to deal with...


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## Whirlpool (Feb 23, 2012)

Ughh....

according to Minatards, Minato> Rikudo so don't bother

But yeah, from what we've seen, i doubt Hashirama is on rikudo-sennin level, BM Naruto level or Minato level.


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## tgm2x (Feb 23, 2012)

Kushina could be Hashirama's relative But yeah Hashirama is probably the strongest kage


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## Zhariel (Feb 23, 2012)

Ehh, I think I put Minato above him still.


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## jacamo (Feb 23, 2012)

navy said:


> These days, I wouldnt bother trying to rank the hokages. Hell apparently Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama. The debate is circular.



the Hiruzen thing is pure nonsense 

only an overwhelming minority try to support it.... and fail 

especially after this chapter, so rank away!!! 

Hashirama > Minato > Tobirama > Hiruzen > Tsunade


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 23, 2012)

Kishimoto himself said that both Minato and Hiruzen had surpassed Hashirama and Tobirama. This is shown in the ease of Minato defeating Tobi and Kurama (Hashirama was pretty beat up in his fight with Madara and Kurama), as well as Hiruzen defeating both Hashirama and Tobirama despite his old age. 

Tsunade is physically the strongest of the Hokages, as well as the greatest Medical Ninja in the world.


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## jacamo (Feb 23, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Kishimoto himself said that both Minato and Hiruzen had surpassed Hashirama and Tobirama. This is shown in the ease of Minato defeating Tobi and Kurama (Hashirama was pretty beat up in his fight with Madara and Kurama), as well as Hiruzen defeating both Hashirama and Tobirama despite his old age.



sorry but only the delusional would use that as proof


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## Starstalker (Feb 23, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Kishimoto himself said that both Minato and Hiruzen had surpassed Hashirama and Tobirama.



Link or never happened.

To the fantard who posted a picture of Hasirama beaing near death after fighting against Kyuubi.

You can't even compare that fight with Minato vs Kyuubi. Hashirama fought both Madara(the second strongest shinobi in the world) and Kyuubi. There are two main differences. The first is, Kyuubi was controled by Madara and probably ordered to kill Hashirama. This is not like when Minato fought him. This time Kyuubi focused on Hashirama and how to kill him, nothing else. Minato wouldn't stand a chance.

Second, Hashirama defeated both Madara and Kyuubi, Minato sealed it. Minato took the easier road while Hashirama went head on against both of them and was victorious.

You can't even compare that fight.


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## CCV (Feb 23, 2012)

Starstalker said:


> Link or never happened.
> 
> To the fantard who posted a picture of Hasirama beaing near death after fighting against Kyuubi.
> 
> ...



Hashirama had help from Mito to seal the kyubi during the battle with madara..  did everyone forget about that?

Also, Minato had a village to protect, whereas Hashirama and Madara went off prancing at VOTE.


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## Hazuki (Feb 23, 2012)

mu opinion is 

sandaime prime
shodaime 
nindaime /yondaime ( we don't know who was the strongest , but both of them has the same space time jutsu , but nindaime has water and edo tensei so i would put him stronger than minato)


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## emanresu (Feb 23, 2012)

Minato needs kunai , sometimes 40 fodder to hold 'em kunais to aid his movement. and need to kill himself in order to defeat haxxor opponents. sad.

hashirama by his might and chakra kill anyones he wishes.


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## jacamo (Feb 23, 2012)

Hazuki said:


> mu opinion is
> 
> sandaime prime
> shodaime
> nindaime /yondaime ( we don't know who was the strongest , but both of them has the same space time jutsu , but nindaime has water and edo tensei so i would put him stronger than minato)



your opinion was retconned im afraid


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## Nidaime Mizukage (Feb 23, 2012)

Hiruzen > Hashirama > Minato > Tobirama > Tsunade


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## vegeta2002 (Feb 23, 2012)

Let's juxtapose the main theme of this manga (squashing human hatred) with this dumbass conversation. You guys are the Juubi. You all fucking suck.


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## harurisu (Feb 23, 2012)

All those Hashirama threads, I can't ><


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## jacamo (Feb 23, 2012)

Nidaime Mizukage said:


> Hiruzen > Hashirama > Minato > Tobirama > Tsunade



im just glad the majority of people have enough sense to realize this is false


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## Namikaze Minato Flash (Feb 23, 2012)

Prime Hiruzen>Minato>Hashirama>Tibirama>Tsunade=/=any Hokage=Minato>Prime Hiruzen>Hashirama>Tibirama>Tsunade=/=any Hokage=Hashirama>Minato>Prime Hiruzen>Tibirama>Tsunade=/=any Hokage...

You might think the power-scaling is weird, but that is in fact a logical consequence if you take into consideration how it's been made thorought the duration of this manga. At one point in time, Prime Hiruzen is considered the strongest. Then you have Kakashi saying only Naruto can surpass the Fourth along with Jiraiya's words backing that claim up. Later, you have Madara himself and Kabuto attesting to Hashirama's superiority. So to me it's just an endless cycle that will never be resolved until Kishimoto makes the declaration himself...


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## Edo Madara (Feb 23, 2012)

Hiruzen said himself if oro can summoned minato he wont have a change in that fight that how powerfull minato is but maybe that got retconned though because kishi said there 2 ninja that stronger than minato
Guess who? Now we know its RS and hashi

So hashirama>minato


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## AoshiKun (Feb 23, 2012)

IMO Hashirama was stronger. Mokuton isn't only the best element to deal with but he most likely knew fuinjutsus as much as Uzumakis.

However if we consider Minato vs Hashimara than I'd give it to Minato. He seems to be a bad match for the wood guy.


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## Sniffers (Feb 23, 2012)

Dunno if that's the case. Both have their fair share of hype. Hashirama seems to have the unbelievable ability and raw power to conjure entire forests, but Minato's genius could make up for that. Dunno.


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## Ranma Saotome (Feb 23, 2012)

Hashi is apparently the most legendary Hokage, Minato is the genius one. I'd probably liken a comparison of them to Madara and Itachi. Madara and his power is legendary, but Itachi is the genius Uchiha.

Minato and Itachi may not have the massive jutsu of their Hokage and Uchiha counterparts, but they make up for it with useful, haxxed techniques. Minato, his FTG, incredible speed, reflexes, and seals... Itachi, the spiritual items(which I've yet to see an EMS user use so I'm assuming for now that they _are_ just items that Itachi himself obtained).


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## ? (Feb 23, 2012)

Likely, but it's not a fact. There are things that imply Minato could be stronger (again, I doubt he is though).


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## WasteU (Feb 23, 2012)

I think 4th is on a different level because of the style of fighting.  He would give anyone trouble.  You can say that Look at 1st compared to 4th after fight ect but you have to relize also that 1st fought Madara a number of times.  He had prep ect.  
Tobi showed up out of nowhere when Naruto is being born and 4th did what he could with what he learned during the battle.  

They are both crazy good leave it at that.
4th had to die in order for Kish story to work.


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## Elite Uchiha (Feb 23, 2012)

Minato and his sperm cell are superior to Shodai.


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## Huey Freeman (Feb 23, 2012)

Elite Uchiha said:


> Minato and his sperm cell are superior to Shodai.



yep the only logical answer

Flee on sight order 

Name one other ninja who has a flee on sight order?


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## T-Bag (Feb 23, 2012)

^name me one ninja who's power was so strong it was considered a myth like the rikudou sage?


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## Starstalker (Feb 23, 2012)

T-Bag said:


> ^name me one ninja who's power was so strong it was considered a myth like the rikudou sage?



Not exactly a myth, but Madara's and Hashirama's powers are legendary and their tale is past on from generation to generation.

Minato is faster, but Hashirama is phisicaly stronger, and I have no doubt that if Hashirama could just get a hold on him, just grab him or something(and I seriously doubt that he couldn't do that) he would dominate Minato.

Hashirama's strongest power in this fight is the battlefield control. The guy could raise a forest just like that. It would really make the battle way too hard for Minato...if Hashirama also adds those flowers that Madara added in the last chapter, it is over.


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## Whirlpool (Feb 23, 2012)

Hashirama fought Madara and Kyuubi at the same time and lived, managing to supress the Kyuub i long enough for his uzumaki wife to seal it into herself.

Minato fought Tobi, then Kyuubi, managing to seal it in his son and die.

Tobi shit himself in front of Madaras image 

Hashirama>Minato from what i've seen 

Hashirama and Madara are NaruSasu benchmarks like i said a long time ago after they surpassed sensei, sannin, poppa and bro


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## Huey Freeman (Feb 23, 2012)

T-Bag said:


> ^name me one ninja who's power was so strong it was considered a myth like the rikudou sage?



Name one other ninja who brought about the child of prophecy?


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## Rawri (Feb 23, 2012)

Huey Freeman said:


> Name one other ninja who brought about the child of prophecy?



Kushina 

:ho


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## Lelouch71 (Feb 23, 2012)

Graeme said:


> Ehh, I think I put Minato above him still.


Sorry but I was distracted by dem titties


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## DoflaMihawk (Feb 23, 2012)

Being related to main character =/= Strongest

Kabuto stating you're the strongest = Strongest


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## Whirlpool (Feb 23, 2012)

Huey Freeman said:


> Name one other ninja who brought about the child of prophecy?



Kushina

Nagato's parents.

Nagato was also a child of prophecy, Nagatos parents must be kage-level if bringing a child of prophecy is such a great feat


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## Zenith (Feb 23, 2012)

Of course Hashirama is stronger than Minato...

Hype wise Hashirama takes a piss on the Narutoverse bar Madara,and RS himself,the rest of the lot is gonna be suffering from post-pissed on trauma

Just look at the gigantic statue he and Madara have in the VOE,and they're the only 2 to have such treatment in the show.

I mean the author plain put is telling the reader,look gentleman you can be "_flashy_",_intelligent_,skilled,and what not,or have all your pretty titles "Flee on sight","Professor","God of shinobi",but in the face of overwhelming power all the rest comes short.

For those who always claim that Minato is faster so he wins,just look at how A is doing against Madara and you can understand a bit of what I always obsessively repeat that solely speed ain't winning fights in a high tier battle,it's the the entire picture that needs to be taken into account,not only one aspect and with that only build castles,royal court yards,and all that jazz...


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## Elite Uchiha (Feb 23, 2012)

Dont compare A to Minato .


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## Ausorrin (Feb 23, 2012)

I guess people here don't know what a retcon is


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## Kai (Feb 23, 2012)

Starstalker said:


> You can't even compare that fight with Minato vs Kyuubi. Hashirama fought both Madara(the second strongest shinobi in the world) and Kyuubi. There are two main differences. The first is, Kyuubi was controled by Madara and probably ordered to kill Hashirama. This is not like when Minato fought him. This time Kyuubi focused on Hashirama and how to kill him, nothing else. Minato wouldn't stand a chance.


Minato's Keiyaku Fuuin (contract seal) would've wrestled either Tobi or Madara's control from Kurama regardless. Then he could deal with either of the shinobi one on one.



			
				Starstalker said:
			
		

> Second, Hashirama defeated both Madara and Kyuubi, Minato sealed it. Minato took the easier road while Hashirama went head on against both of them and was victorious.


Hardly, even a once in a decade genius seal user like Minato said he couldn't seal the entire kyuubi with a single technique.

He gave up his soul to seal the Yin and used two sets of Four Trigram seals to seal the Yang in his own son who was no older than 1 hour. Plus he used his body as a human shield to save his son from Kurama's attack. That is much more difficult than fighting for control of the Kyuubi as Minato's goals and intentions for the Kyuubi *far extend* than that of Hashirama's.

No bloodline limit = higher difficulty.


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## Empathy (Feb 23, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Kishimoto himself said that both Minato and Hiruzen had surpassed Hashirama and Tobirama. This is shown in the ease of Minato defeating Tobi and Kurama (Hashirama was pretty beat up in his fight with Madara and Kurama)



Considering Minato _died_, it apparently wasn't that easy. Madara's also a much more formidable opponent than Pre-Rinnegan Tobi only using _Jikukan Ido_.


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## Haloman (Feb 23, 2012)

I think there's only one truth that can be taken away from current events:

*Tobirama's reputation as a Hokage is absolutely being shit on.*

He's not even the Eli Manning of Hokages anymore. He's fallen to Cooper Manning levels.


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## icemanlonewolf (Feb 23, 2012)

DoflaMihawk said:


> Being related to main character =/= Strongest
> 
> Kabuto stating you're the strongest = Strongest


The same guy that said "no one can stop this Edo Tensei" which we know will wind up not being true. That guy? What's more is Kabuto's analysis of Hashirama's strength as a ninja is not even based on watching Hashirama fight.


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## B.o.t.i (Feb 23, 2012)

you talking about the same hashirama that with teh aid of his brother could'nt even subdue a old sandaime hokage 

But he can step to minato and top teir cause he makes a forest


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 23, 2012)

Empathy said:


> Considering Minato _died_, it apparently wasn't that easy. Madara's also a much more formidable opponent than Pre-Rinnegan Tobi only using _Jikukan Ido_.


Tobi nor Kurama could kill him, and Minato _willingly_ sacrificed himself.


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## jimbob631 (Feb 23, 2012)

Wait what is this about Kishimoto saying Minato surpassed Hashirama?  I don't remember this at all.  

If thats true I need to reevaluate a lot because as far as I'm concerned Kishimoto stated Naruto surpassed Minato awhile ago.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 23, 2012)

jimbob631 said:


> Wait what is this about Kishimoto saying Minato surpassed Hashirama?  I don't remember this at all.
> 
> If thats true I need to reevaluate a lot because as far as I'm concerned Kishimoto stated Naruto surpassed Minato awhile ago.


It was during the fanbook I interview when he was asked about the Hokage's in terms of power.


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## Oga Tatsumi (Feb 23, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> It was during the fanbook I interview when he was asked about the Hokage's in terms of power.



What Interview?? the interview that kishi say 4rth hokage is the strongest of the dead shinobi??? if it that then it no was Fake???


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## jimbob631 (Feb 23, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> It was during the fanbook I interview when he was asked about the Hokage's in terms of power.



Does anyone have a translation of this?  I've never heard of this.  What did he say exactly?


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## T-Bag (Feb 23, 2012)

unless that shit is stated in the manga or databook, disregard it. it isnt like kishimoto to tell people who are stronger and who are weaker. interviewers rarely even ask those type of questions. a fan probably made that up


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## nadinkrah (Feb 23, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Tobi nor Kurama could kill him, and Minato _willingly_ sacrificed himself.



because he couldn't beat kyuubi


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## JPongo (Feb 23, 2012)

nadinkrah said:


> because he couldn't beat kyuubi



That's totally an unfair assessment.

It all started with Kushina on her last gasps regretting most of all not being able to see Naruto grow.

Minato, trying to grant her wish, then started the chain of events to take care of many things.

You guys are so blind to never account for Minato trying to protect the whole village and not just himself.  Transporting the kyuubi and its bijuudama took a huge chunk of his chakra.  He'd never need to do that if it was 1v1.

Minato 1v1 is a nightmare for anyone!

Hashi never had to worry about protecting the village since he fought at VotE.

Losers, lol.


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## Elite Uchiha (Feb 23, 2012)

Wait, people think Minato had no choice but to kill himself now ...


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## T-Bag (Feb 23, 2012)

JPongo said:


> Hashi never had to worry about protecting the village since he fought at VotE.
> 
> Losers, lol.



he attacked the hidden leaf village for revenge (as far as the offiical story goes) kages dont fight unless their village/citizens are in trouble. they sit down and sign papers. furthermore when tobi attacked the village, the caption says "hidden leaf village senses the kyuubi's *return*"

obv the village was attacked, that's how it all started, that's how hashirama, the hokage of the village was dragged in.


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## Stormcloak (Feb 23, 2012)

agreed, he's stronger


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## Grendel (Feb 23, 2012)

This chapter says nothing about who is stronger between the two as minato wasn't even) included in the statement made by kabuto....

Both have received their fair share of hype but I fail to see how kabuto (who never saw hashish actually fight...unless you count the edo version that was sealed by old hiruzen) could have any authority over such a statement.  This current edo Madara/hashi is stronger than both were in their prime so it won't even be an accurate representation of his power.  Regardless this hype is no different than what has been said about minato by various people...


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## Complete_Ownage (Feb 23, 2012)

My opinion on rankings: Short and brief

1) Hashirama - Bijuu control
2) Minato - S/t Jutsu,  Shiki Fūjin , 	Jikūkan Kekkai (S/T barrier)
3) Tobirama - Edo Tensie, S/T jutsu
4) Hashirama - No bijuu control
5) Hiruzen - Sorry but lacks feats and has hype from certain fodder
6) Tsunade - Completely different then the other kages however she trumps anyone in healing and medical ninjutsu other then possibly kabuto at this point

Left Danzo short stint out of this


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## Elite Uchiha (Feb 23, 2012)

T-Bag said:


> he attacked the hidden leaf village for revenge (as far as the offiical story goes) kages dont fight unless their village/citizens are in trouble. they sit down and sign papers. furthermore when tobi attacked the village, the caption says "hidden leaf village senses the kyuubi's *return*"
> 
> obv the village was attacked, that's how it all started, that's how hashirama, the hokage of the village was dragged in.



No he challenged the Leaf and Shodai stepped up. Last time I checked VOTE isnt in the same vicinity as the Konoha.


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## SageEnergyMode (Feb 23, 2012)

I laugh at anyone claiming Hiruzen lacks feats. He beat both Hashirama and Tobirama, and nearly beat even Orochimaru as well.

That's one of the most impressive ninja feats there is. Just because you didn't like the way it happened, doesn't change a single thing about what actually transpired. He also did it using Minato's most impressive technique.

Hiruzen was fully confident that he could beat both Hashirama and Tobirama from the very start of their fight. That says it all. Even so, I think Minato would most certainly beat Hashirama. Minato even outclassed Tobi, for god sakes. It also can't go unacknowledged that Minato blocked the Kyuubi's bijuu dama as if it were nothing. I don't see Hashirama doing such a thing nearly as easily as Minato did. Hashirama's Mokuton isn't catching Minato with his speed, and if he places a Hiraishin marking on Hashirama, then it's all over.

And, stating the obvious, Minato is classified as the savior of the shinobi world. The Hokage to surpass is Minato, as Kakashi essentially said to Naruto.


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## T-Bag (Feb 23, 2012)

Elite Uchiha said:


> No he challenged the Leaf and Shodai stepped up. Last time I checked VOTE isnt in the same vicinity as the Konoha.



last time i checked he said he attacked konoha. so if we were to logically deduce this down, the fight ended up at Vote, but started in konoha. dont know how, but it did.


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## Elite Uchiha (Feb 24, 2012)

K can you bring me the scan? Pretty sure he said he "challenged" the Konoha.


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## Kai (Feb 24, 2012)

T-Bag said:


> last time i checked he said he attacked konoha. so if we were to logically deduce this down, the fight ended up at Vote, but started in konoha. dont know how, but it did.


If we were to logically deduce this down even further, you'd think he clashed with a certain power all the way to VOTE.

Naruto vs. Pain demonstrated superior numbers with insignificant power levels do nothing but get in the way. There's no way Madara fought Konoha as a whole all the way to VOTE. They wouldn't have kept up and the whole affair would have been in total disarray anyways.

Now what makes sense, that or the idea that he clashed with Hashirama and his terrain morphing abilities to VOTE and altered the landscape there?

"Challenged Konoha" can be merely metaphoric or symbolic. In every other depiction and description regarding the event, Hashirama is the only one there and is the one with due credit for victory.


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## Ryugaisan (Feb 24, 2012)

Kishimoto has been using Kabuto as an author avatar this entire war. He just chimes in to give information Kishimoto couldn't figure out how to detail otherwise. This is clearly a statement from Kishimoto that Hashirama is the strongest Kage. He even compared him directly to the Sage of Six Paths.

In the end, it really doesn't mean anything. Kishimoto has had at other various points described Minato and Hiruzen as best. He clearly can't keep consistent on this, and doesn't seem like he really cares to. The one he's hyping at the moment is the strongest.


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## T-Bag (Feb 24, 2012)

Kai said:


> If we were to logically deduce this down even further, you'd think he clashed with a certain power all the way to VOTE.
> 
> Naruto vs. Pain demonstrated superior numbers with insignificant power levels do nothing but get in the way. There's no way Madara fought Konoha as a whole all the way to VOTE. They wouldn't have kept up and the whole affair would have been in total disarray anyways.
> 
> ...



i challenged "the hidden leaf village" "i wanted revenge, they had betrayed me!  sounds quite literal. where was he going to find hashirama? in konoha.

and no im not saying, hashirama's victory is thanks to his people. im just saying he attacked konoha, and the fight ended up at vote, where he lost to hashirama (bcuz he was stronger)

just so there isnt a confusion


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## JPongo (Feb 24, 2012)

T-Bag said:


> i challenged "the hidden leaf village" "i wanted revenge, they had betrayed me!  sounds quite literal. where was he going to find hashirama? in konoha.
> 
> just so there isnt a confusion



sorry bud, but ur the one confused here.

VotE is quite a distance from the village and ur take on it doesn't quite fit.


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## Grendel (Feb 24, 2012)

Ryugaisan said:


> Kishimoto has been using Kabuto as an author avatar this entire war. He just chimes in to give information Kishimoto couldn't figure out how to detail otherwise. This is clearly a statement from Kishimoto that Hashirama is the strongest Kage. He even compared him directly to the Sage of Six Paths.
> 
> In the end, it really doesn't mean anything. Kishimoto has had at other various points described Minato and Hiruzen as best. He clearly can't keep consistent on this, and doesn't seem like he really cares to. The one he's hyping at the moment is the strongest.



The thing is he didn't say he was strongest Kage....he said there is none on his level anymore which is a big difference...and comparing myths does not equal comparing power..

The way it was worded means something...he didn't say there hasn't been anyone on his level since which would imply that he was the strongest kage...saying there isn't anyone alive anymore implies that there have been people since they just aren't alive anymore....


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## Gilgamesh (Feb 24, 2012)

Minato is small compared to Shodai

And lol@ people who still think that Madara took on all of Konoha or that Shodai's wife helped him


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## Jirya (Feb 24, 2012)

Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara .....


*Spoiler*: __ 



Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara > Naruto > Sasuke > Minato > Sarutobi > Hashirama > Madara >


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## Huey Freeman (Feb 24, 2012)

Next minato flashback will shut down these haters


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## Arles Celes (Feb 24, 2012)

Huey Freeman said:


> Next minato flashback will shut down these haters



Next chapter will have a flashback of Hiruzen Prime defeating Juubi's older brother and dad while also stopping an alien invasion


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## Psychic (Feb 24, 2012)

Arles Celes said:


> Next chapter will have a flashback of Hiruzen Prime defeating Juubi's older brother and dad while also stopping an alien invasion


 lol, Hiruzen was great, but seriously we are talking about Minato here, he is definitely stronger than Hiruzen.


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## harurisu (Feb 24, 2012)

Huey Freeman said:


> Next minato flashback will shut down these haters



Against who ? I think his fight against Tobi and Kyuubi was his biggest fight.


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## Morgan (Feb 24, 2012)

Minato over every creature in Narutoverse. Yes. That includes Hashirama. There's only one way to decide this. A showdown. Minato's moves and stats against Hashirama's. To the battledome!!!!  

(It's like I'm saying to the Batmobile!!!)


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## Oga Tatsumi (Feb 24, 2012)

Huey Freeman said:


> Next minato flashback will shut down these haters



this i would not surprised that Minato the 4rth Hokage is the strongest hokage number 4rth is special for kishi Goku is related to the sphere of dragon 4rth:ho


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## CrazyMoronX (Feb 24, 2012)

No.

Nothing Madara has shown so far could defeat Minato.

It also has nothing to do with Hashirama.


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## Whirlpool (Feb 24, 2012)

CrazyMoronX said:


> No.
> 
> Nothing Madara has shown so far could defeat Minato.
> 
> It also has nothing to do with Hashirama.



Except for the whole meteor dropping, rinnegan whipping, kyuubi summoning techniques


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## JPongo (Feb 24, 2012)

^But that's a suped-up EDO combined with Hashi, not the real EMS Madara that was somewhere below Hashirama's level.

Try not to get lost in translation, lol.


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## SageEnergyMode (Feb 24, 2012)

JPongo said:


> ^But that's a suped-up EDO combined with Hashi, not the real EMS Madara that was somewhere below Hashirama's level.
> 
> Try not to get lost in translation, lol.



Don't you just love when people forget simple facts like that ? 

But, yea, in my view, Kishi's way of operating is pretty simple and straightforward, even if he can be cryptic at times. Hiruzen was shown beating Hashirama and Tobirama, and basically also Orochimaru, only without the kill, because he was as powerful a ninja as the previous Hokages, potentially even better in his prime when he isn't trying to face off against Orochimaru and 2 immortal Hokages by himself. 

The technique that allowed him to accomplish this feat being the Fourth Hokage's was Kishi's way of telling us that the Fourth Hokage may indeed have been the best of them all.


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## Wave Wind (Feb 24, 2012)

Huey Freeman said:


> yep the only logical answer
> 
> Flee on sight order
> 
> Name one other ninja who has a flee on sight order?



In addition to that, the ninja who made a powerful Kage and a Jinchuuriki look like little bitches, and fixes an extremely high-ranking sealing jutsu while being, you know, dead. _Dead._


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## T-Bag (Feb 24, 2012)

JPongo said:


> ^But that's a suped-up EDO combined with Hashi, not the real EMS Madara that was somewhere below Hashirama's level.
> 
> Try not to get lost in translation, lol.



all kabuto did was boost up his mokuton jutsu lol, and madara still claims it isn't kabuto's creation but rather his own. before he died, he still had EMS/rinnegan/mokuton. lol gtfo with minato man, he's more skilled than madara but madara's overwhelming power shuts him down easily. he's taking on 5 kages. that's the difference between madara and minato


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## SageEnergyMode (Feb 25, 2012)

Even with overwhelming power, you still have to be able to hit and connect with your attacks, and Minato just strikes me as way too skilled, and way too damn fast. I mean, if we're just now learning what else is in Hashirama's arsenal, and we've had a mokuton user in the manga for awhile now, imagine what else might be in Minato's arsenal?  Just saying you never know. 

However, yes, obviously this Madara is meant to be stronger than Minato. But, I tell you what, I don't know why, but I get the feeling that the Raikage or Tsunade may very well make some crazy ass minato hype statement at some point during this fight, accompanied by a flasbhack of some sort


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## T-Bag (Feb 25, 2012)

i doubt minato can do much bro. madara can change the entire landscape in an instant with mokuton, it'd be very hard for minato to make his way around madara. and god kishi knows what would happen if madara used a a shinra tensei in that area, kunai's would be sent kilometers away from the battlefield. madara then again on top of that has rinnegan's absorb jutsu and susano. his stamina also seems to be unbelievably high so theres no chance he's running out of chakra.

minato's skills can only get you so far, without power to work with.
edit: anyway lets not turn this into a BD


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## Chibason (Feb 25, 2012)

Where there is a Will of Fire, Minato will find a way. 

I can't help but think that Minato has more offensive Jutsu than what we were shown during his brief encounter with Tobi.


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## eyeknockout (Feb 25, 2012)

minato needed help from kushina, hashirama needed help from mito. tobirama lost to kingin, hiruzen lost to orochimaru. clearly tsunade is the only kage worthy of being called the G.O.A.T


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## Chibason (Feb 25, 2012)

eyeknockout said:


> minato needed help from kushina, hashirama needed help from mito. tobirama lost to kingin, hiruzen lost to orochimaru. *clearly tsunade is the only kage worthy of being called the G.O.A.T*



Except she's a _medic _who passes out at the sight of blood.


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## PureWIN (Feb 25, 2012)

I'm not sure what Hashirama/Madara/anybody could do against the FTG+Kunai combo without prior knowledge _and_ speed. 

Obviously all of the Kages are monsters with their own unique abilities that made them legendary. Performing power rankings and tiers is unnecessary because there will _*never*_ be a conclusive answer.


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## Missing_Nin (Feb 27, 2012)

Chibason said:


> Where there is a Will of Fire, Minato will find a way.



1st preached will of the fire when the 4th was still swimming in his daddy's balls.


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## G Felon (Feb 27, 2012)

Hashirama > madara+kyuubi> madara > minato

Minato fanboys just except it


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Feb 27, 2012)

The first was shown stronger than the third but the second was shown weaker.  Whenever the first attacked with punchs he got a few in, whenever the second attacked he was blocked and countered (with tons of difficulty)

2nd hokage = Tobi
:3


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## Raid3r2010 (Feb 27, 2012)

Minato surpassed everyone before him so no. 

Sure if u giv Hashirama all the bijuu's he might take it somehow.


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## G Felon (Feb 27, 2012)

B.o.t.i said:


> you talking about the same hashirama that with teh aid of his brother could'nt even subdue a old sandaime hokage
> 
> But he can step to minato and top teir cause he makes a forest



Couldn't you tell those edos were garbage they were nothing like when they were alive it was obvious . You actually believe hiruzen could beat them both at the same time at any point in his life.


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## G Felon (Feb 27, 2012)

Raid3r2010 said:


> Minato surpassed everyone before him so no.
> 
> Sure if u giv Hashirama all the bijuu's he might take it somehow.



Hashirama can make instant forests that are alive and can fuse with it. Minato wouldn't have the chance to throw a shuriken and wherever he goes that plants will kill him


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## JPongo (Feb 27, 2012)

Minato is the fastest so yes he can do whatever he wants in the forest.


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## John Connor (Feb 27, 2012)

theres a lot of characters stronger than Minato

and Minato can easily kill them all


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## vinnycool sannin (Feb 27, 2012)

edo madara > edo hashirama.....hashirama > madara....
Hashirama isn't beaten minato....unless he has regeneration and tanks a hit and catches minato and kills him , shodai aint beating him.....as i recall naruto has a good counter to moukaton....so does oonoki....
On topic...minato>shodai


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## John Connor (Feb 27, 2012)

when Minato marks a shinobi with the Hirashin tag its considered a death sentence

the only reason Tobi is alive right now is because Minato decided to stop the Kyuubi instead of hunting him down


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## BlazingCobaltX (Feb 27, 2012)

This shit again? 



convict said:


> And Minato ended up dead while the first must have had a nice long sleep that night and woke up to a hearty breakfast.


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## vinnycool sannin (Feb 27, 2012)

tobi (like madara) knew when to flee minato when things took a change for the worse....lol


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## Sadako (Feb 27, 2012)

navy said:


> These days, I wouldnt bother trying to rank the hokages. Hell apparently Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama. The debate is circular.



This. Not that I've ever cared much about power levels, but even attempting to rank the Hokages seems like a wasted effort, it's close to impossible with all the hype being thrown around from various sources within the manga.


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## Ghost (Mar 4, 2012)

Huey Freeman said:


> the 1st had dna help in dealing with the kyuubi, Minato dealt with him with his own skill.



and with kushina's help.


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## Morgan (Mar 4, 2012)

All Kushina did was help him die. Literally. Not stop the Kyuubi.


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