# Korra vs Father (FMA)



## Wan (Dec 21, 2014)

Korra fights Father, after he has the souls of Amestris taken back out of him by Hohenheim's transmutation circle.  Battlefield is the Central headquarters plaza.  Speed and reactions are equal, just to curtail any talk of speedblitzing by either side.  They have knowledge of each other's abilities.  Other than that, there are no restrictions.

Who wins?


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## Expelsword (Dec 21, 2014)

Hasn't this been done a bazillion times?

Father's power is much MUCH more versatile. I don't see how he loses.


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## Wan (Dec 21, 2014)

Expelsword said:


> Hasn't this been done a bazillion times?



Not that I'm aware of.  There were some feats from the Korra finale which I thought made the topic interesting.


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## Tom Servo (Dec 21, 2014)

I thought Father could only soulfuck after absorbing The Truth.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 21, 2014)

Father is invincible here, what's korra going to do? Tickle him as she's turned into a chair?


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## Vivi Ornitier (Dec 21, 2014)

Do you ever get tired of these shitty FMA VS Avatard threads?


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## shade0180 (Dec 21, 2014)

Another wan thread.



Still in need of bandages for the past thread?


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## Iwandesu (Dec 21, 2014)

doesn't father transmutation kinda of ignore range ?
father has a phylosophal stone which means he can handily turn korra into a chair.


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## Tom Servo (Dec 21, 2014)

Korra has a speed advantage here doesn't she (I think around x10 as much if I'm not mistaken) I guess she could avoid being transmuted though Father has about a half million lives to spare.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 21, 2014)

the speed advantage is stupidly small to even consider it


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## Tom Servo (Dec 21, 2014)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> the speed advantage is stupidly small to even consider it



Being roughly x10 faster isn't really that small of a speed difference


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## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 21, 2014)

Tom Servo said:


> Being roughly x10 faster isn't really that small of a speed difference


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## AgentAAA (Dec 21, 2014)

Tom Servo said:


> Korra has a speed advantage here doesn't she (I think around x10 as much if I'm not mistaken) I guess she could avoid being transmuted though Father has about a half million lives to spare.



Speed/reactions equal. Wan didn't even throw her that bone.


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## Iwandesu (Dec 21, 2014)

BeyonderGod said:


> Korea has speed+*arsenal*


the fuck
father has nearly anything he can think.
korra is vastly outmatched versatility wise
unless you mean dc, which is moot because father ignores durability


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## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 21, 2014)

ITT: lets turn Korra's blood into mercury


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## Wan (Dec 22, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> doesn't father transmutation kinda of ignore range ?
> father has a phylosophal stone which means he can handily turn korra into a chair.



Just like everyone at the end of FMA were turned into chairs.

Wait...


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## Red Angel (Dec 22, 2014)

BeyonderGod said:


> Korea has speed+arsenal



Good for Korea, whatever since they're not in this thread

And Father stomps. Obligatory lolWan comment


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## Louis Cyphre (Dec 22, 2014)

Korra get turned into a battery™.

There's nothing much she can do. Father can transmute whatever she throws at him.


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## Xiammes (Dec 22, 2014)

Tom Servo said:


> I thought Father could only soulfuck after absorbing The Truth.



The philosopher stone doesn't need a transmutation circle to preform alchemy, what father was doing was using them to fuel his philosopher stone.


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## Louis Cyphre (Dec 22, 2014)

_Ed_ can turn souls into philosopher's stones.

While Ed is a genius, he is not as good as Father.


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## Wan (Dec 22, 2014)

Louis Cyphre said:


> _Ed_ can turn souls into philosopher's stones.
> 
> While Ed is a genius, he is not as good as Father.



Ed can turn _his own_ soul into a Philosopher's Stone, he never tried it on other people as I recall.

Transmuting a human body seems possible...but it requires physical contact.  Alchemists whose alchemy can directly target the human body, such as Scar or Kimblee, are always shown directly touching their opponents.  There's no reason to think even Father is exempt from this, or else there would have been a lot more enemies turned into chairs in that final battle, so to speak.

So, Father can turn Korra into a chair...if he gets close enough to directly touch her.  And if Korra stays airborne via jets and air spouts, that won't happen.


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## Louis Cyphre (Dec 22, 2014)

Like I said before: Korra get turned into a battery. 

How it feels to be wrong every time, wan?


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## Mr. Black Leg (Dec 22, 2014)

Can't Father just turn the ground into platinum, turn any water nearby into hydrogen gas and oxygen gas(Roy did this IIRC), so there goes Fire and Waterbending and transmutate lots of spikes into her direction, spikes that she'll have to try and stop with only airbending ?


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## Wan (Dec 22, 2014)

That was taking their souls to add to his Philosopher's Stone, not transmuting their bodies into chairs or what have you.

Show me Father doing that to a powerful spirit being like Raava, and I'll concede.


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## Louis Cyphre (Dec 22, 2014)

My posts had nothing do with chairs, wan.

Nice strawman, though. Your inability to read always amazes me.


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## Iwandesu (Dec 22, 2014)

whatever you want to call it
he doesn't need to soulfuck a powerful being to soulfuck korra.
soulfuck also ignores durability.
regardless, there is the proff he can do ranged alchemy


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## Wan (Dec 22, 2014)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Can't Father just turn the ground into platinum, turn any water nearby into hydrogen gas and oxygen gas(Roy did this IIRC), so there goes Fire and Waterbending and transmutate lots of spikes into her direction, spikes that she'll have to try and stop with only airbending ?



I guess he could do that to reduce Korra's water supply -- she's not going to have much accessible water besides what's in Central's sewage system.  Regarding earth, though, Korra can pretty easily move and get to a new source of earth.  And if Father keeps transmute large areas of earth into platinum, that'll dry up his philosopher's stone right quick.  I'm not sure how any of that is supposed to affect her firebending.



Louis Cyphre said:


> My posts had nothing do with chairs, wan.
> 
> Nice strawman, though. Your inability to read always amazes me.



Strawman?  Go on and keep pretending you didn't see me ask for evidence that Father can turn a spirit being like Raava into a battery, then.


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## Louis Cyphre (Dec 22, 2014)

He can turn souls into battery

It's up to you to prove that Raava can shrug it off besides repeating "Raava is a powahful spiritu"

Was anyone in Avatar done anything remotely similar to what Father do? No? Then, I've some bad news for you.


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## Wan (Dec 22, 2014)

Louis Cyphre said:


> He can turn souls into batter
> 
> It's up to you to prove that Raava can shrug it off besides repeating "Raava is a powahful spiritu"



No-limits fallacy. By this logic, Father can drain jinchurrikis, Saiyans, etc.


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## DarkTorrent (Dec 22, 2014)

that's not how NLF regarding transmutation works


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## NightmareCinema (Dec 22, 2014)

Seriously? Again?
Wan, stop Raigening two series that I legitimately like...
This is just all kinds of pathetic.


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## Louis Cyphre (Dec 22, 2014)

That's not how NLF works _at all._

Soul reaping is one of those wonderful abilities that don't give a darn how physically strong you are. You either have feats resisting to it, or you don't.

Stop being a failure, Wan.


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## Wan (Dec 22, 2014)

Louis Cyphre said:


> That's not how NLF works _at all._
> 
> Soul reaping is one of those wonderful abilities that don't give a darn how physically strong you are. You either have feats resisting to it, or you don't.
> 
> Stop being a failure, Wan.



So Father can soulfuck a jinchurriki?


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## Louis Cyphre (Dec 22, 2014)

Wan said:


> So Father can soulfuck a jinchurriki?


Can he? I legitimately stopped caring about Nardo and whatever asspull power jinchurikis have.


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## Iwandesu (Dec 22, 2014)

Wan said:


> So Father can soulfuck a jinchurriki?


yes, on a speed equal scenario father would likely soulfuck a jinchuriki


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## AgentAAA (Dec 22, 2014)

Wan said:


> So Father can soulfuck a jinchurriki?



ye.
10character


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## Louis Cyphre (Dec 22, 2014)

I thought Nardo had some resistance to it something.


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## NightmareCinema (Dec 22, 2014)

Wan said:


> So Father can soulfuck a jinchurriki?



If they haven't shown any resistance/immunity to soulfuck, yes he can.

That's the wonderful thing about hax abilities. You *NEED* to have resistance/immunity to them because they bypass physical durability.


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## Wan (Dec 22, 2014)

Hmm.  I'm still skeptical about Father being able to soulfuck spirit entities based on soulfucking a few human soldiers, but at least you're being consistent about it.


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## DarkTorrent (Dec 22, 2014)

Louis Cyphre said:


> I thought Nardo had some resistance to it something.



Nardo somewhat does. He didn't allow Nagato to pull his soul out for some time.

Other perfect jins possibly do too due to the process of becoming a perfect jin sometimes involving some soul tug of war or something.


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## Imperator100 (Dec 22, 2014)

Is this fight in-character or bloodlusted? In-character, Father's arrogance might help Korra out.


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## HiroshiSenju (Dec 22, 2014)

Why is this thread still going? Father turns Korra into a philosopher's stone.


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## NightmareCinema (Dec 22, 2014)

Wan said:


> Hmm.  I'm still skeptical about Father being able to soulfuck spirit entities based on soulfucking a few human soldiers, but at least you're being consistent about it.



If any character hasn't shown resistance/immunity to hax abilities, said abilities will work on them.

That's standard assumption. 

Seriously, stop wanking already.

The Raigen effect is strong in this one...


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## Tranquil Fury (Dec 22, 2014)

Wan said:


> Hmm.  I'm still skeptical about Father being able to soulfuck spirit entities based on soulfucking a few human soldiers, but at least you're being consistent about it.



Spirit based entities are spirits, it's not different than doing it to a spirit in a physical vessel but there are levels of spirits, some guy who can soulscrew fodder may not soulscrew a being of stronger soul than generic fodder. Example Bleach had Yammy with his weird soulsuck power that only partially worked on Tatsuki whose above the average human in spirit(which also allowed her to see Shinigami and such when normal humans could not) but useless on anything worth a damn in that series. There are levels of souls even in fiction, some are more durable and greater than lesser spirits. Same for things like killing curse/AK of Harry Potter fame, it may work on regular souls but some really strong soul is another matter. 

Even in FMA it's made clear Father needed insane prep to absorb a soul like Truth and even then could not control it. I cannot comment on Avatar but unless it's something like that then yes he probably could do something. 

He would not need to transmutate this Raava if it were too much, he could go for Korra. Father could take away Ed and Al's powers without a hand gesture when they met, he could transmutate people without contact. He's not Kimbley or Mustang or Ed, he's not limited to needing contact or even making circles outside for really big abilities like his Country sized soul drain ritual.

Not commenting on who wins but Father does not need contact to transmutate.


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## Wan (Dec 22, 2014)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Spirit based entities are spirits, it's not different than doing it to a spirit in a physical vessel but there are levels of spirits, some guy who can soulscrew fodder may not soulscrew a being of stronger soul than generic fodder. Example Bleach had Yammy with his weird soulsuck power that only partially worked on Tatsuki whose above the average human in spirit(which also allowed her to see Shinigami and such when normal humans could not) but useless on anything worth a damn in that series. There are levels of souls even in fiction, some are more durable and greater than lesser spirits. Same for things like killing curse/AK of Harry Potter fame, it may work on regular souls but some really strong soul is another matter.
> 
> Even in FMA it's made clear Father needed insane prep to absorb a soul like Truth and even then could not control it. I cannot comment on Avatar but unless it's something like that then yes he probably could do something.
> 
> ...



Raava is the Avatar Spirit, so she's part of Korra.  If Father wants to soulfuck Korra, especially in the Avatar State, he needs to be able to soulfuck Raava. 

Father being able to shut down Ed and Al's alchemy was more because he had spread himself across Amestris and could cut off the flow of tectonic energy that alchemists use.  It was ineffective at stopping alkahestry because alkahestry uses a different source of energy.  Once the transmutation circle devised by Scar's brother was put into effect to restore the connection between alchemists and the energy source, Father could not take away alchemy powers.


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## Expelsword (Dec 22, 2014)

So, when is Korra taking on Hao Asakura? You know, he's a master of the elements too.


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## Wan (Dec 22, 2014)

No idea who that even is.


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## Iwandesu (Dec 22, 2014)

Wan said:


> No idea who that even is.


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## shade0180 (Dec 22, 2014)

Hao against Avatar verse





I'll just put some of Hao's feats here.



*Spoiler*: __ 





>


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## Fujita (Dec 22, 2014)

Tranquil Fury said:


> some guy who can soulscrew fodder may not soulscrew a being of stronger soul than generic fodder.



This

Being able to soulfuck a weaker spirit doesn't mean you can automatically do it to a stronger one. That's NLF right there. It's a different case than, say, a guy who punches planets to bits but doesn't have any extra spirit-based feats, in which case you'd ask for feats of soulfuck resistance or conclude that it'd work.


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## Tranquil Fury (Dec 22, 2014)

Wan said:


> Raava is the Avatar Spirit, so she's part of Korra.  If Father wants to soulfuck Korra, especially in the Avatar State, he needs to be able to soulfuck Raava.
> 
> Father being able to shut down Ed and Al's alchemy was more because he had spread himself across Amestris and could cut off the flow of tectonic energy that alchemists use.  It was ineffective at stopping alkahestry because alkahestry uses a different source of energy.  Once the transmutation circle devised by Scar's brother was put into effect to restore the connection between alchemists and the energy source, Father could not take away alchemy powers.



You asked if Father could influence things without touching, we have evidence he can especially once he absorbs Truth and gains more power and knowledge from the Gate not even factoring he absorbed Hohenheim+his share of souls prior to that for another huge boost. He blatantly was shown doing stuff like making nuclear fusion or sucking souls without contact. 

Scar and other Alchemists are not Father let alone Father at his highest level, why do you keep going to that route?It's like trying to say Goku cannot planet bust because Piccolo Daimou in part 1 could not. Father post his different power ups is not limited to one way of Alchemy or circles or needing to make contact.

Hint: Father comes from the Gate, he gave the knowledge to do Alchemy.

Oh reading your OP it seems this is just regular Father. Well he was using a different kind of Alchemy than what Ed and Al later learnt to counter him shutting down their powers although that was still a good display of him influencing things without contact with humans.

If he's allowed Truth(guessing by your OP it most likely is considering he had Truth at this point as well) then it's not even arguable he can't, he just can't use all the power of Truth but was still stronger and more knowledgeable than his regular self for sure.


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## Lurko (Dec 22, 2014)

Father takes out the lesbian.


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## Wan (Dec 22, 2014)

Tranquil Fury said:


> You asked if Father could influence things without touching, we have evidence he can especially once he absorbs Truth and gains more power and knowledge from the Gate not even factoring he absorbed Hohenheim+his share of souls prior to that for another huge boost. He blatantly was shown doing stuff like making nuclear fusion or sucking souls without contact.
> 
> Scar and other Alchemists are not Father let alone Father at his highest level, why do you keep going to that route?It's like trying to say Goku cannot planet bust because Piccolo Daimou in part 1 could not. Father post his different power ups is not limited to one way of Alchemy or circles or needing to make contact.
> 
> Hint: Father comes from the Gate, he gave the knowledge to do Alchemy.



Some of the things Father does without touching, particularly the example of cutting off Ed and Al's alchemy, doesn't seem to be the same thing as transmuting.

This is Father after he had absorbed Truth, but also after Hohenheim's transmutation circle had sucked all the Amestrian souls back out of him.  Basically how he was for most of the final battle in FMA.  So soul sucking is possible, nuclear fusion is not.  Father may not be limited in the same way other alchemists are, but those ways, such as transmutation without direct contact with the target, need to be proven individually.


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## Onomatopoeia (Dec 22, 2014)

Just to point out, Father doesn't need to make the ground specifically platinum to make it unbendable to Korra. Any metal would work if it lacks impurities, which it would if Father is creating it from scratch. 

Anyway, Father waves his hand and turns the iron in Korra's blood into protactinium. GG.


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## Volt manta (Dec 22, 2014)

No joke, I get the feeling Korra would make a _very_ comfortable chair.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 22, 2014)

Father took greed to bring him down massively weakened along with nearly every relevant alchemist and the military.


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## Galo de Lion (Dec 22, 2014)

Wan said:


> Hmm.  I'm still skeptical about Father being able to soulfuck spirit entities based on soulfucking a few human soldiers, but at least you're being consistent about it.



Father absorbed the Gate of the World into him, he'd have no problem with Raava.


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## Wan (Dec 22, 2014)

TTGL said:


> Father absorbed the Gate of the World into him, he'd have no problem with Raava.



With the help of 50 million souls and a fuck off huge transmutation circle.


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## Tom Servo (Dec 22, 2014)

Why are some people here using feats Father isn't capable of? Atleast not without omnipotent back-up and several hundred years of prep time


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## Dudebro (Dec 22, 2014)

Actually to those saying it....Father didn't steal Truth's power or soul...Truth just let Father play around with some of his power...Being god he technically doesn't have to give a darn what he does with it...


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## Galo de Lion (Dec 22, 2014)

Wan said:


> With the help of 50 million souls and a fuck off huge transmutation circle.



Father still has the power/knowledge of the Gate inside him though, you said so in the opening.



> Korra fights Father, after he has the souls of Amestris taken back out of him by Hohenheim's transmutation circle.



Not that it matters, as Father would beat Korra anyway.


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## Wan (Dec 22, 2014)

TTGL said:


> Father still has the power/knowledge of the Gate inside him though, you said so in the opening.



Not with those 50 million souls, or with a nice, huge, perfectly positioned transmutation circle from _centuries_ of prep.  So his feat of absorbing Truth to begin with does not apply here.


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## Galo de Lion (Dec 22, 2014)

The pacifics of the fight says this is after the 50 million souls are sent back to their original bodies, which leaves him with the original 500,000 souls and the Gate. In that form we see him harness back the sun he created (because unlessing it would be too a gamble) and unleashing a massive energy beam.


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## Wan (Dec 22, 2014)

TTGL said:


> The pacifics of the fight says this is after the 50 million souls are sent back to their original bodies, which leaves him with the original 500,000 souls and the Gate. In that form we see him harness back the sun he created (because unlessing it would be too a gamble) and unleashing a massive energy beam.



No, he extinguished that "sun" before the 50 million souls were pulled back out of him.  And he does have an energy blast feat, but as of the series finale Korra has a feat of directly _blocking_ a powerful, city-block level energy blast.

Blocking the blast:






The crater left by it:



(all those vines were created _by_ the blast, to be clear)


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## Lurko (Dec 22, 2014)

I can't believe this rape thread is still going, give up Wan.


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## Vivi Ornitier (Dec 22, 2014)

Hey Wan, how do you feel about this?


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## Galo de Lion (Dec 22, 2014)

It clearly shows him extinquising the mini-sun after the souls have been let out of him.


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## Wan (Dec 22, 2014)

ClassicGameGuys said:


> Hey Wan, how do you feel about this?



First couple "feats" seem kind of BS, impossible to prove that Bradley isn't just aimdodging.

The assumption that alchemy energy is "electricity" is pretty baseless; there's nothing at all connecting the visual manifestation of alchemy to electricity.

Some stuff from the nationwide transmutation circle was thrown in as if it has any bearing on the characters' fighting abilities.

Yeah, looks like a pile of BS to me.


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## Vivi Ornitier (Dec 22, 2014)

Wan said:


> First couple "feats" seem kind of BS, impossible to prove that Bradley isn't just aimdodging.


He had his eyepatch on for most of his speed feats, so try again.



> The assumption that alchemy energy is "electricity" is pretty baseless; there's nothing at all connecting the visual manifestation of alchemy to electricity.


It hardly matters when their electricity is possibly even faster than actual lightning.



> Some stuff from the nationwide transmutation circle was thrown in as if it has any bearing on the characters' fighting abilities.


News flash, the nationwide transmuation circles was drawn across the ground, *not the sky.* So the speed of the electricity is still that high, and Hohenheim and Ed were *explicitly shown* reacting to a bolt that was from the nationwide transmutation circle.



> Yeah, looks like a pile of BS to me.


Somebody sure is mad that Avatar characters can't dodge arrows


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## Wan (Dec 22, 2014)

ClassicGameGuys said:


> He had his eyepatch on for most of his speed feats, so try again.



And that proves it wasn't aimdodging how...?



> News flash, the nationwide transmuation circles was drawn across the ground, *not the sky.* So the speed of the electricity is still that high, and Hohenheim and Ed were *explicitly shown* reacting to a bolt that was from the nationwide transmutation circle.



The scans that guy uses don't show characters reacting to bolts from the nationwide transmutation circle.



> Somebody sure is mad that Avatar characters can't dodge arrows



Somebody's a bit full of it.


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## Vivi Ornitier (Dec 23, 2014)

Wan said:


> And that proves it wasn't aimdodging how...?


Because he couldn't use his ultimate eye and they thought that he was caught in the explosion, the anime version shows it a tad more clearly. Also he flat out deflected a barrage of bullets in the same scene with his eyepatch on, if you think that's aimdodging too (which I recall you saying it is) you must be legitimately insane.



> The scans that guy uses don't show characters reacting to bolts from the nationwide transmutation circle.


Are you being serious right now? Did you even read the chapter? Did you even read/watch FMA at all or are you just using it as a scapegoat because it's the only popular series where the most basic fodder is not enough to solo Avatar without breaking a sweat?

Not that it matters since it's not like the speed of Father and Hohenheim's bolts vary the way you are implying.


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## Wan (Dec 23, 2014)

ClassicGameGuys said:


> Because he couldn't use his ultimate eye and they thought that he was caught in the explosion, the anime version shows it a tad more clearly. Also he flat out deflected a barrage of bullets in the same scene with his eyepatch on, if you think that's aimdodging too (which I recall you saying it is) you must be legitimately insane.



I don't deny the barrage of bullets feat, because we actually see him moving from in the bullet's path to out of it on panel.  Here, we don't see his movement clearly on panel, so there's no way to know he's not aimdodging in this specific instance.



> Are you being serious right now?



Yep.  No one is shown dodging energy specifically from the nationwide transmutation circle.


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## Galo de Lion (Dec 23, 2014)

I'm very much sure that that scene also showed many soldiers firing machine guns at Bradley, and him dodging/reflecting the bullets effortlessly.


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## Vivi Ornitier (Dec 23, 2014)

Wan said:


> I don't deny the barrage of bullets feat, because we actually see him moving from in the bullet's path to out of it on panel.  Here, we don't see his movement clearly on panel, so there's no way to know he's not aimdodging in this specific instance.


They were certain that the explosion hit Bradley, meaning that the explosion actually went off the moment the explosive connected to Bradley and he still outran the explosion from its center



> Yep.  No one is shown dodging energy specifically from the nationwide transmutation circle.



Not like Ed reacted to a lightning bolt just as it was striking, and Hohenheim caught a bunch of lightning bolts in his hand as they caught him from the side.

Also the transmutation was done in Father's 2nd form and May dodged a kunai that was launched by his electricity.


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## Wan (Dec 23, 2014)

ClassicGameGuys said:


> They were certain that the explosion hit Bradley, meaning that the explosion actually went off the moment the explosive connected to Bradley and he still outran the explosion from its center



Or they just assumed it had hit him because they didn't think it was humanly possible to dodge it.  If anything, Bradley dodged the tank shell, but there's no reason to think he outran the explosion the shell caused.



> Not like Ed reacted to a lightning bolt just as it was striking, and Hohenheim caught a bunch of lightning bolts in his hand as they caught him from the side.
> 
> Also the transmutation was done in Father's 2nd form and May dodged a kunai that was launched by his electricity.



A.  That wasn't lightning.

B.  That wasn't the energy from the nationwide transmutation circle cited as "hypersonic".

C.  Even if it was...we see _one_ panel of the energy from the nationwide transmutation circle, with the energy already stretching into the sky.  There's no time frame given for just how that energy reached into the sky.  Speed is a function of time and distance.  Without time, it's impossible to draw conclusions about speed.


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## Red Angel (Dec 23, 2014)

Oh but gentlemen, let's remember, according to Wan, fiction is only clothes tier+ DC


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## Mr. Black Leg (Dec 23, 2014)

Wan said:


> I guess he could do that to reduce Korra's water supply -- she's not going to have much accessible water besides what's in Central's sewage system.  Regarding earth, though, Korra can pretty easily move and get to a new source of earth.  And if Father keeps transmute large areas of earth into platinum, that'll dry up his philosopher's stone right quick.  I'm not sure how any of that is supposed to affect her firebending.



She won't be fast enough to move while he can attack her all he wants, and she'll only be using the element that she is less proficient in(Air) .

Try to light a candle with hydrogen gas around you, and you'll find out that with two extremely inflammable gases all around you is not a good idea, it would ignite everything around you and you'd be dead pretty soon . But I forgot, she doesn't know he did that, so she would try to firebend and go kaboom .


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## Wan (Dec 23, 2014)

Skarbrand said:


>



It was later pointed out to me, in another thread, by Chaostheory that there was collateral damage to the environment that I hadn't noticed.  My point was that my take on the flash at the time was that it wasn't impressive.

But I don't see what that has to do with this thread, unless harassment and poisoning the well fallacies are now hip and cool.



Mr. Black Leg said:


> She won't be fast enough to move while he can attack her all he wants, and she'll only be using the element that she is less proficient in(Air) .
> 
> Try to light a candle with hydrogen gas around you, and you'll find out that with two extremely inflammable gases all around you is not a good idea, it would ignite everything around you and you'd be dead pretty soon . But I forgot, she doesn't know he did that, so she would try to firebend and go kaboom .



If Father could do that on such a large scale, he could have killed the whole force attacking him at the end by over-oxygenating the air.

If we're assuming Father has enough knowledge to exploit the metalbending weakness by turning the ground to platinum, Korra should have enough knowledge to anticipate Father separating the air into hydrogen and oxygen.


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## Louis Cyphre (Dec 23, 2014)

Wan said:


> But I don't see what that has to do with this thread, unless harassment and poisoning the well fallacies are now hip and cool.



When it's against a brick wall like you, it is.

And also, this especially shows how terrible and dishonest at debating you are.


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## Wan (Dec 23, 2014)

Louis Cyphre said:


> When it's against a brick wall like you, it is.
> 
> And also, this especially shows how terrible and dishonest at debating you are.



Dishonest?  What part of that was dishonest?


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## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 23, 2014)

If Korra has trouble taking that mech down why is father in the match?
No really.


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## Louis Cyphre (Dec 23, 2014)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> If Korra has trouble taking that mech down why is father in the match?
> No really.



Because Wan need reasons to furiously masturbate over Avatar.

Ranger pls



Wan said:


> Dishonest?  What part of that was dishonest?



> being this blind


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## Wan (Dec 23, 2014)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> If Korra has trouble taking that mech down why is father in the match?
> No really.



I'm not sure I understand the question.



Louis Cyphre said:


> > being this blind



Then I think you've got the wrong definition of dishonest.


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## Louis Cyphre (Dec 23, 2014)

> yfw Wan really thinks that korra have any chance against Father


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## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 23, 2014)

Wan said:


> I'm not sure I understand the question.



*Spoiler*: __ 










She isn't fighting something she can fight, there isn't an engine, there isn't a head pilot, there isn't any spirit canon she can bend in avatar state and on top of that none of her attacks will land.


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## Wan (Dec 23, 2014)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Wan said:


> The crater left by it:
> 
> 
> 
> (all those vines were created _by_ the blast, to be clear)



She blocked the energy directly, OBD equivalence means that she can block (or at least, try to block) the energy of Father's blast.

By the way, these feats are why I thought to make the thread in the first place.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 23, 2014)

Wan said:


> She blocked the energy directly, OBD equivalence means that she can block (or at least, try to block) the energy of Father's blast.



It's made explicit that because it was spirit energy she could do that, you can't just make every energy beam equivalent to it.


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## Wan (Dec 23, 2014)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> It's explicit that because it was spirit energy she could do that, you can't just make every energy beam equivalent to it.



...no, it really isn't explicit.  She just does it.  There isn't an explanation given one way or the other.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 23, 2014)

Wan said:


> ...no, it really isn't explicit.  She just does it.  There isn't an explanation given one way or the other.



... Did... did you watch legend of Korra? Legit question.


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## NightmareCinema (Dec 23, 2014)

>Energy comes from SPIRIT VINES
>Not explicit


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## Wan (Dec 23, 2014)

NightmareCinema said:


> >Energy comes from SPIRIT VINES
> >Not explicit



Explicit that she could only deflect it _because_ it came from spirit vines?  No.  That's not explicitly stated.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 23, 2014)

NightmareCinema said:


> >Energy comes from SPIRIT VINES
> >Not explicit



During the finale all I could think was "Why doesn't she bend the energy from the canon right back at the mech." Yes, I saw it coming several episodes before it happened.
That's how fucking obvious this is.


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## Wan (Dec 23, 2014)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> During the finale all I could think was "Why doesn't she bend the energy from the canon right back at the mech." Yes, I saw it coming several episodes before it happened.
> That's how fucking obvious this is.



We don't even know if what she did can be considered bending.  The blast is the same sort of blast that Vaatu used, and neither Wan nor Korra were ever shown directly bending Vaatu's blasts.  There's no reason to think beforehand that Korra could have done it, and failing would have cost her life.  So she didn't try it against the mech.  She only did it at the end because it was a wild last second attempt to save Kuvira's life.


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## AgentAAA (Dec 23, 2014)

Wan said:


> Explicit that she could only deflect it _because_ it came from spirit vines?  No.  That's not explicitly stated.



and yet Korra's energy-bending only comes regarding spirit energy. That's what energy bending is. Unless it's stated that she's gained some miraculous new power, the most likely and thus assumable explanation is that she used the ability to bend spirit energy to deflect/block that shit. If this was something new, it needs to be explicitly stated, and almost certainly would be.
this is a blatant abuse of "Equivalency" if I've ever seen one.
Or do we just assume Korra can use all forms of heat energy if it's not explicitly stated she's using firebending everytime?


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## Wan (Dec 23, 2014)

AgentAAA said:


> and yet Korra's energy-bending only comes regarding spirit energy. That's what energy bending is. Unless it's stated that she's gained some miraculous new power, the most likely and thus assumable explanation is that she used the ability to bend spirit energy to deflect/block that shit. If this was something new, it needs to be explicitly stated, and almost certainly would be.
> this is a blatant abuse of "Equivalency" if I've ever seen one.
> Or do we just assume Korra can use all forms of heat energy if it's not explicitly stated she's using firebending everytime?



Nothing really connects deflecting that blast to energybending, though.  Energybending is bending the energy within other people, not deflecting huge energy blasts.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 23, 2014)

Wan said:


> We don't even know if what she did can be considered bending.  The blast is the same sort of blast that Vaatu used,


Vaatu is made of spirit vines you heard it here folks. Not like Vaatu isn't the yang to the ying to begin with or anything.


> and neither Wan nor Korra were ever shown directly bending Vaatu's blasts.


The fuck you mentioning Wan for? The fuck anything here for the comparison?


> There's no reason to think beforehand that Korra could have done it,


Bridge to both worlds, manipulating spirit vines, sensing with them,  giant spirit form, restoring and taking peoples bending. Yep, no reason.  The huge spirit theme going on wasn't a hint to what would happen at all. Just ignore it.



Wan said:


> Nothing really connects deflecting that blast to energybending, though.  Energybending is bending the energy within other people, not deflecting huge energy blasts.


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## NightmareCinema (Dec 23, 2014)

Wan said:


> Nothing really connects deflecting that blast to energybending, though.  Energybending is bending the energy within other people, not deflecting huge energy blasts.



Except that blast was made out of spirit energy.

Guess where bending comes from?

That's right. Spirit energy.

That energy is what Energybending manipulates.

Get it yet? Good.


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## Wan (Dec 23, 2014)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> Vaatu is made of spirit vines you heard it here folks. Not like Vaatu isn't the yang to the ying to begin with or anything.



...what?  Have _you_ watched Legend of Korra?

Vaatu's blast is the same as the spirit weapon blast, same color, sound effect, everything.  Not the same level of power, obviously, but same principle.  The spirit weapon was developed using spirit vines...which were created by Vaatu.



> The fuck you mentioning Wan for? The fuck anything here for the comparison?


 
Because Wan fought Vaatu and took several hits from that energy blast.  You'd think if those energy blasts could be "bent", Wan would have done so.



> Bridge to both worlds, manipulating spirit vines, sensing with them,  giant spirit form, restoring and taking peoples bending. Yep, no reason.  The huge spirit theme going on wasn't a hint to what would happen at all. Just ignore it.



Yeah, none of that adds up to "I can assuredly block a skyscraper-busting energy blast".


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## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 23, 2014)

Wan said:


> Vaatu's blast is the same as the spirit weapon blast, same color, sound effect, everything.


"Do you see the speed lines they must be going fast." 


> Because Wan fought Vaatu and took several hits from that energy blast.  You'd think if those energy blasts could be "bent", Wan would have done so.


Why do you keep bringing up Wan?


> Yeah,  that adds up to "I can assuredly block a skyscraper-busting energy blast made of spirit energy".


addendum
I'm picking something that makes the least assumptions.
Korra just suddenly being able to bend energy blasts of any kind isn't one I'd make.


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## AgentAAA (Dec 23, 2014)

Wan said:


> Nothing really connects deflecting that blast to energybending, though.  Energybending is bending the energy within other people, not deflecting huge energy blasts.



it's bending the spirit energy within people - otherwise it wouldn't be able to restore/get rid of bending.
That blast is using spirit vines. It's connected to the spirit world and thus the same form of energy that allows bending.
It's pretty goddamn explicit.


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## Wan (Dec 23, 2014)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> "Do you see the speed lines they must be going fast."



Not even close.



> addendum
> I'm picking something that makes the least assumptions.
> Korra just suddenly being able to bend energy blasts of any kind isn't one I'd make.



Stranger, more sudden things happen in fiction all the time.


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## AgentAAA (Dec 23, 2014)

Wan said:


> Not even close.
> 
> 
> 
> Stranger, more sudden things happen in fiction all the time.



occam's razor.
I don't need to go on. but I will.
Stranger things happen - we don't always assume the strangest or the mid-strangest.
Otherwise we'd go with high-ends every calc and just take NLF's as they are because "well it's fiction"


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## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 23, 2014)

Wan said:


> Not even close.




 Wan isn't Korra
Vaatu isn't vines
The comparison's aren't apt. 




> Stranger, more sudden things happen in fiction all the time.


So that's the best you got huh?
Well lets get this thread locked shall we it's pointless to go on.


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## Wan (Dec 23, 2014)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> Wan isn't Korra
> Vaatu isn't vines
> The comparison's aren't apt.



Wan's power set is the same as Korra's.

Vaatu directly creates the vines.  He even does so by extending his arms into the ground, so it's practically as if the vines are extensions of himself.

So yes, the comparisons are apt.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 23, 2014)

Wan said:


> Wan's power set is the same as Korra's.
> 
> Vaatu directly creates the vines.  He even does so by extending his arms into the ground, so it's practically as if the vines are extensions of himself.
> 
> So yes, the comparisons are apt.



>Not getting that every avatar is different and that Korra is the most spiritually connected avatar

>Creator= created
>perfect logic


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## Wan (Dec 23, 2014)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> >Not getting that every avatar is different and that Korra is the most spiritually connected avatar
> 
> >Creator= created
> >perfect logic



>More spiritual than Wan
>Wan lived with spirits and was the first to connect with Raava

Ok.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 23, 2014)

Wan said:


> >More spiritual than Wan
> >Wan lived with spirits and was the first to connect with Raava
> 
> Ok.


Wan isn't a lesbian.


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## B Rabbit (Dec 23, 2014)

You're right Wan, she can beat Father. I guess it's time for her to take Kizaru now.


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## Fujita (Dec 23, 2014)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> It's made explicit that because it was spirit energy she could do that, you can't just make every energy beam equivalent to it.



You could argue that she could do this for other "spirit-based" energies like reiatsu or whatever

Not like I know what Father's using, though 



Wan said:


> Explicit that she could only deflect it _because_ it came from spirit vines?  No.  That's not explicitly stated.



Doesn't matter

Her only energy deflecting feat is with spirit energy, and without a clear mechanism that implies otherwise, there's no evidence that she can bend other types of energy. No evidence, no dice. 



> Nothing really connects deflecting that blast to energybending, though. Energybending is bending the energy within other people, not deflecting huge energy blasts.



Nothing, you mean, besides both being instances of bending glowing mystic spirit energy  

What the energy happens to be doing is... kind of irrelevant here. It's the same stuff. It's still waterbending whether you're controlling large waves, tiny bits of ice, or the blood in somebody's body. Are you going to argue that "well, bloodbending is bending the water inside of people, not blocking large waves, so it's obviously not the same type of bending even though they're bending the same material... therefore, waterbenders have a general ability to control liquids and they can bend mercury" ?  



Unlosing Ranger said:


> Wan isn't a lesbian.



Neither is Korra


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 23, 2014)

B Rabbit said:


> You're right Wan, she can beat Father. I guess it's time for her to take Kizaru now.



Should I do a Korra runs a Maiar Gauntlet?

Start with Gothmog

end it with Eonwe

also its threads like this that prove Wan can't debate ATTLA matches

so I have to ask, why hasn't be been banned from expressing an opinion on the matter?


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Dec 23, 2014)

Not interested in watching the wonderful circles this thread is going in.


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