# Edo Madara vs Edo Hashirama



## Fiiction (Apr 5, 2014)

Location: Madara vs Gokage
Distance: 100m
Mindset: IC but wants to kill very badly.
Restrictions: restricted to Edo forms. So no kurama , no SS , no Gedo Mazo.


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## Cognitios (Apr 5, 2014)

So Madara has EMS, Rinnegan, Moukton, SM, HashiDNA and can summon Kurama?
Madara gives him a run for his money with only EMS and Kurama
Rinnegan makes it even
Moukton makes it high difficulty
SM and Hashi DNA makes it low difficulty.


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## Bonly (Apr 5, 2014)

Depends on how the fight plays out. When they both started to actually fight they just went with Perfect Susanoo vs Wood Human for god knows how long until Madara managed to placed his black rods into Hashi which later stopped him from moving and Hashi put a gate on him which temporary supposedly stop Madara from physically moving. So yeah there is that but it could prolly change if they actually use more then one or two jutsu apiece but the question is would they but either way I go with Madara, I found him to be the stronger/better of the two once he got the Rinnegan. And inb4 god of shinobi rant


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## DaVizWiz (Apr 5, 2014)

Hashirama couldn't defeat Madara while they were Edo, even with the help of Naruto and his COFRS. 

Apparently he can now summon Kurama and Gedo Mazo (0 restrictions). That, with the meteors, susano army and flower world puts him above any variant of Hashirama.


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## Kai (Apr 5, 2014)

DaVizWiz said:
			
		

> Apparently he can now summon Kurama and Gedo Mazo (0 restrictions). That, with the meteors, susano army and flower world puts him above any variant of Hashirama.


An Edo Tensei Rin'negan is unable to summon the Mazo.


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## Bonly (Apr 5, 2014)

Kai said:


> An Edo Tensei Rin'negan is unable to summon the Mazo.



Where was that stated?


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## Kai (Apr 5, 2014)




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## Bonly (Apr 5, 2014)

That doesn't say one can't summon the Gedo with an Edo Tensei Rinnegan.


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## Kai (Apr 5, 2014)

Try different translations. They should allude to the same idea, that a fake Rin'negan (Edo Tensei) should not be able to summon Gedo Mazo.


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## Dominus (Apr 5, 2014)

They were pretty much equal when they fought in this war, Madara should win here since Kurama isn't restricted.


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## Bonly (Apr 5, 2014)

Kai said:


> Try different translations. They should allude to the same idea, that a fake Rin'negan (Edo Tensei) should not be able to summon Gedo Mazo.



That's not an actual statement as if it's a fact like I was asking for. What it shows is that they made an *assumption* that because it's fake it shouldn't/couldn't be able to do summon the Gedo. Nothing else in the manga supports the idea that a Edo Tensei Rinnegan(or Sharingan or Byakugan for that matter) doesn't have access to it's full power. Just because they "allude to the same idea" that "a fake Rin'negan (Edo Tensei) should not be able to summon Gedo Mazo", that doesn't actually mean they were correct in said assumption. So do you have an actual statement to suggest their claim is right? If not then no need to reply.


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## StickaStick (Apr 5, 2014)

Authoritah said:


> They were pretty much equal when they fought in this war, Madara should win here since Kurama isn't restricted.



I'm going to go with this. Kurama tips the scale in Mads favor in a matchup' that is otherwise very close as the manga demonstrated.


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## Kai (Apr 5, 2014)

Bonly said:


> That's not an actual statement as if it's a fact like I was asking for. What it shows is that they made an *assumption* that because it's fake it shouldn't/couldn't be able to do summon the Gedo. *Nothing else in the manga supports the idea that a Edo Tensei Rinnegan(or Sharingan or Byakugan for that matter) doesn't have access to it's full power*. Just because they "allude to the same idea" that "a fake Rin'negan (Edo Tensei) should not be able to summon Gedo Mazo", that doesn't actually mean they were correct in said assumption. So do you have an actual statement to suggest their claim is right? If not then no need to reply.


Except it is a fact Madara could not bring forth his full power as an Edo Tensei. What Roshi expects as a limit for an Edo Tensei is just one of the major ways that fact is expressed. Otherwise, why wouldn't there be just a smooth continuation of events without inquiry? Madara's limitation with a fake Rin'negan was brought into question because he should not be able to summon Mazo as an Edo. Key term here is "fake Rin'negan." 

Furthermore, the bijuus, who have existed since the time of Hagoromo, would have knowledge of these powers being on the earth for centuries.


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## ARGUS (Apr 5, 2014)

either a tie or Hashirama

edo Hashirama pinned Edo Madara down,,,
same could be said that Hashirama was also tired, since madara managed to put 6 chakra rods on Hashirama,,,

Madara surpassed Hashirama after he gained a real rinnegan,,,and his SM,,,,,

Hashiramas wood dragons alone were fighting on par with Madaras PS,,which is still Edo Madaras full power,,,,, his SM healing and reflexes,,,,and his mokuton based techniques absorb chakra themselves therefore nullifying the use of Preta,,,
SS will pummel PS down with jus one CK,,,,like it did in canon,,, and it could be possible that edo hashirama never even used it against edo madara


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## Fiiction (Apr 5, 2014)

Kifflom!! said:


> either a tie or Hashirama
> 
> edo Hashirama pinned Edo Madara down,,,
> same could be said that Hashirama was also tired, since madara managed to put 6 chakra rods on Hashirama,,,
> ...



Hashirama never used SS at all.  And if you're talking about those two chakra absorbing wood dragons, they countered Preta, nothing stopped Madara from using susanoo to bust out of em,, same goes for those gates.


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## ARGUS (Apr 5, 2014)

Fiiction said:


> Hashirama never used SS at all.  And if you're talking about those two chakra absorbing wood dragons, they countered Preta, nothing stopped Madara from using susanoo to bust out of em,, same goes for those gates.



Madara was immobilised by the wood dragons,, he couldnt simply jus bust them with susanoo,,,
We never know that Hashirama never used SS,, the fight was simply off panelled,,,,
with SS if we go by feats,,all he needs is one CK to bust madaras PS which is still his strongest techniques


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## Fiiction (Apr 5, 2014)

Kifflom!! said:


> Madara was immobilised by the wood dragons,, he couldnt simply jus bust them with susanoo,,,
> We never know that Hashirama never used SS,, the fight was simply off panelled,,,,
> with SS if we go by feats,,all he needs is one CK to bust madaras PS which is still his strongest techniques



I'm pretty sure we would've seen SS in at least one panel or even in the background, it's the size of the Juubi damn near. And if he did use it, it's practically useless if madara managed not to get obliterated by it.

How come he couldn't break out of the wood dragons? Amuse me.  Because I never read anything that said he couldn't use chakra/susanoo at all. I read that he couldn't absorb jutsu that's it.


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## Shinobi no Kami (Apr 5, 2014)

PS is the only thing that madara can use to match hashiramas mokujin. his rinnegan and mokuton is a nonfactor here and only his rinnegan is a factor in the cqc encounter. his mokuton is useless in this match.

once the fight boils down, they will be near equal in the cqc encounter like they always have been, with madara sticking rods in hashirama and hashirama immobilizing madara with wood dragons.

hashirama will be a bit faster in immobilizing madara which would lead him to victory since madara will never have the actual opportunity to activate the rods.


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## ARGUS (Apr 5, 2014)

Fiiction said:


> I'm pretty sure we would've seen SS in at least one panel or even in the background, it's the size of the Juubi damn near. And if he did use it, it's practically useless if madara managed not to get obliterated by it.
> 
> How come he couldn't break out of the wood dragons? Amuse me.  Because I never read anything that said he couldn't use chakra/susanoo at all. I read that he couldn't absorb jutsu that's it.



Madara was left immobilized... He couldn't move at all.. I don't think he could've manifested susanoo
An seeing that wood dragons absorb chakra madaras use of ninjutsu was nullified which is why he tried using preta 

A lot of the fights in the manga recently have been off panelled if hashi did use SS then realistically he Shudve defeated madara himself.. This was probably not done cus of the plot
Take tobirama vs madara that fight was completely off panelled 
It was needed bcz of the plot progression


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## Fiiction (Apr 5, 2014)

Kifflom!! said:


> Madara was left immobilized... He couldn't move at all.. I don't think he could've manifested susanoo
> An seeing that wood dragons absorb chakra madaras use of ninjutsu was nullified which is why he tried using preta
> 
> A lot of the fights in the manga recently have been off panelled if hashi did use SS then realistically he Shudve defeated madara himself.. This was probably not done cus of the plot
> ...



Don'T compare Tobirama to hashirama, he doesn't have jutsu on the scale of hashi's.  

Ok and if I missed out, your not able to use jutsu while your chakra is getting absorbed? 
And he only was left "immobilized", because he was waiting to get revived.


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## ARGUS (Apr 5, 2014)

Fiiction said:


> Don'T compare Tobirama to hashirama, he doesn't have jutsu on the scale of hashi's.
> 
> Ok and if I missed out, your not able to use jutsu while your chakra is getting absorbed?
> And he only was left "immobilized", because he was waiting to get revived.



No I'm not comparing tobirama to hashirama 
What I'm saying is tht madara vs tobirama was skipped exactly like madara vs hashirama


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## Fiiction (Apr 5, 2014)

Kifflom!! said:


> No I'm not comparing tobirama to hashirama
> What I'm saying is tht madara vs tobirama was skipped exactly like madara vs hashirama



Yeah, I know that.


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## KeyofMiracles (Apr 5, 2014)

Hashirama restrains him like he did in the manga.


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## Fiiction (Apr 5, 2014)

KeyofMiracles said:


> Hashirama restrains him like he did in the manga.



What's stopping susanoo?


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## Jagger (Apr 5, 2014)

Kai said:


> Try different translations. They should allude to the same idea, that a fake Rin'negan (Edo Tensei) should not be able to summon Gedo Mazo.


MS' translations are shit, though. For reference, read the lastest chapter.

Not only with Naruto, but I've heard they make stupid mistakes with other manga as well. But, I don't disagree with your point.


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## Fiiction (Apr 5, 2014)

Jagger said:


> MS' translations are shit, though. For reference, read the lastest chapter.
> 
> Not only with Naruto, but I've heard they make stupid mistakes with other manga as well. But, I don't disagree with your point.



Yeah, I agree with you on that. I read last chapter and it was horrible.


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## Kai (Apr 6, 2014)

Jagger said:


> MS' translations are shit, though. For reference, read the lastest chapter.
> 
> Not only with Naruto, but I've heard they make stupid mistakes with other manga as well. But, I don't disagree with your point.


I'm well aware. 

I didn't provide a translation by MS that is shit, though.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Apr 6, 2014)

Edo Madara wins. Frankly, the only reason why he didn't in canon is because _he was enjoying the fight._ True, Edo Hashirama didn't use Shinsusenju, but I don't think that'd help much against Tengai Shinsei. Edo Madara could use all of Hashirama's jutsus, minus Sage Mode, and can fool him with Mokuton Bushins since unlike Madara, Hashirama couldn't tell them apart. And even while dicking around, Madara had gotten Hashirama's back _six times_ and impaled him on his chakra rods. 

In fact, Hashirama himself credits Naruto with the near defeat. He couldn't pin Madara alone.


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## Veracity (Apr 6, 2014)

Fiiction said:


> What's stopping susanoo?



Madara cannot use Justu while being hugged by the wood dragon. That's the point of the  technique. 

It's exactly why he didn't do anything to stop himself from getting blasted by a COFRS. Cause he couldn't lol.

Anyway , of Madara doesn't have SM he gets beat canonically.


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## ARGUS (Apr 6, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Edo Madara wins. Frankly, the only reason why he didn't in canon is because _he was enjoying the fight._ True,* Edo Hashirama didn't use Shinsusenju, but I don't think that'd help much against Tengai Shinsei*. Edo Madara could use all of Hashirama's jutsus, *minus Sage Mode,* and can fool him with Mokuton Bushins since unlike Madara, Hashirama couldn't tell them apart. And even while dicking around, Madara had gotten Hashirama's back _six times_ and impaled him on his chakra rods.
> 
> In fact, Hashirama himself credits Naruto with the near defeat. He couldn't pin Madara alone.



TS is nothing in front of PS let alone SS,,,,it is completely useless as gaaras sand alone was able to stop it momentarily,, along with a tired onoki
Madara doesn't even hold it in high regard compared to his PS which he claims is his full power yet u think that itll beat SS
Hashirama uses Chojo kobetsu and it murks the attack completely
Furthermore they're both edo so the jutsu is futile 

SM was the main reason why hashirama defeated ems madara with the kyuubi... 
Madara in edo forms full power was still PS... Hashiramas SS would crush it 
madaras preta and PS do not make up for Hashiramas SM
Hashirama immobilized madara..and restrained him,, regardless of the 6 rods behind his back
He credited naruto for defeating juubito not madara


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## Fiiction (Apr 6, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> Madara cannot use Justu while being hugged by the wood dragon. That's the point of the  technique.
> 
> It's exactly why he didn't do anything to stop himself from getting blasted by a COFRS. Cause he couldn't lol.
> 
> Anyway , of Madara doesn't have SM he gets beat canonically.



NO, the point of the technique was to counter and stop Preta. Nothing said he couldn't use chakra/susanoo. He could've stopped himself from getting blasted, but he knew he was an Edo and plus, he knew that at the very end of it he was getting revived. And that reminds me when Lee kicked him, noting was stopping him from using susanoo but he knew he was Edo.

When did madara get beat "canonically"?


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## Fiiction (Apr 6, 2014)

Kifflom!! said:


> TS is nothing in front of PS let alone SS,,,,it is completely useless as gaaras sand alone was able to stop it momentarily,, along with a tired onoki
> Madara doesn't even hold it in high regard compared to his PS which he claims is his full power yet u think that itll beat SS
> Hashirama uses Chojo kobetsu and it murks the attack completely
> Furthermore they're both edo so the jutsu is futile
> ...



Again, what was stopping him from busting out using susanoo? What does being hugged up have anything to do with using jutsu that doesn't involve hand signs?


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## tkpirate (Apr 6, 2014)

it would most likely be a stalemate.


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## Weapon (Apr 6, 2014)

I honestly believe the reason why Edo Madara was able to pin down not defeat Hashirama was because of Kabuto's Summon / Modifications compared to Orochimaru's weaker summon of Hashirama. 

Hashirama would of had the same body adjustment issues as Madara did. I think Edo Hashirama was just straight up _nerfed_. It doesn't really make sense how Edo Madara w/ New Body / Mokuton / Rin features that don't compensate for Kurama Summon can "beat" Edo Hashirama.

This Edo fight between them was off panelled too much, we don't know what Hashirama was actually doing to lose. 

But Madara probably wins this since it pretty much happened already.


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## Veracity (Apr 6, 2014)

Fiiction said:


> NO, the point of the technique was to counter and stop Preta. Nothing said he couldn't use chakra/susanoo. He could've stopped himself from getting blasted, but he knew he was an Edo and plus, he knew that at the very end of it he was getting revived. And that reminds me when Lee kicked him, noting was stopping him from using susanoo but he knew he was Edo.
> 
> When did madara get beat "canonically"?



It's directly said here: *he's using the sand under madara's feet?
*

That Madara would not be able to move or use any Rinnegan Justu. Tell me right now why Madara would not be able to use the Rinnegan Kishi or move, but some how be able to use Sharingan Justu ? That doesn't even logically make sense.

It's also to note that Hashirama and Naruto were able to do a combination attack soloey because Madara was unable to do anything basically.  Why the hell would he stand there and do nothing ? Tell me that lol.

And Hashirama canonically beat Madara the second he in trapped him in a Justu that negates all movement and Justu. The only reason he couldn't finish him off was because Hashirama doesn't posses a sealing Justu. So unless you actually have him sealing tags then you made a spite thread. If you have him sealing tags then he wins canonically. 

Lol and no, him getting himself blasted insured that he got immobilized permanently by the god gates. Why the hell would he set himself up like that because he could? Lol no. He didn't have to get himself up like that to switch bodies, your acting like that was essential to his plan ? That wasn't even part of his plan. He just happened to get man handled by Hashirama.

It's also to note that when cut in half by Lee he was connected to the Juubi, which was the reason he couldn't use Ninjustu.


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## Dominus (Apr 6, 2014)

They were pretty much in the same condition, both of them couldn't move.

[sp][/sp]


A couple of moments later...
[sp][/sp]


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## Shinobi no Kami (Apr 6, 2014)

Authoritah said:


> They were pretty much in the same condition, both of them couldn't move.
> 
> [sp][/sp]
> 
> ...



madara activated the rods inside hashirama, which is something that hashirama didnt give him the chance to do when they fought.

hashirama didnt just magically stop being able to move.


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## Trojan (Apr 6, 2014)

madara should win more times than not, but he might lose as well, depending on how he fights. 
His problem is he is so full of himself.


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## Dominus (Apr 6, 2014)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> madara activated the rods inside hashirama, which is something that hashirama didnt give him the chance to do when they fought.
> 
> hashirama didnt just magically stop being able to move.



We don't know whether he could do that while he was immobilized by those gates. They were still in a similar condition, Hashirama was panting and wasn't in any condition to fight anymore, but he probably would've won if he had sealing tags.


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## Shinobi no Kami (Apr 6, 2014)

Authoritah said:


> We don't know whether he could do that while he was immobilized by those gates. They were still in a similar condition, Hashirama was panting and wasn't in any condition to fight anymore, but he probably would've won if he had sealing tags.


there is no reason to believe that madara could bind hashirama at that point in time. 

if madara couldve bound hashirama, then he would have. madara at that point, was severely weakened with the majority of his chakra sapped from him. he was in no condition to activate the rods.


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## Dominus (Apr 6, 2014)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> there is no reason to believe that madara could bind hashirama at that point in time.
> 
> if madara couldve bound hashirama, then he would have. madara at that point, was severely weakened with the majority of his chakra sapped from him. he was in no condition to activate the rods.



We don't know what could have happened, only Kishi does. Why would Madara do it while he is immobilized, when he was revived by Obito he did it so he could attack Hashirama, he couldn't attack him in this situation and Hashirama was already just standing there not doing anything. 

Anyway I already said that Hashirama would have won with sealing tags so there is no reason to discuss about this.


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## Veracity (Apr 6, 2014)

Authoritah said:


> They were pretty much in the same condition, both of them couldn't move.
> 
> [sp][/sp]
> 
> ...



If Madara couldn't use Rinnegan Justu and couldn't even move an inch, I find it hard to believe he could activate the rods. That wouldn't even make logical sense. If he could then Hashirama binding him with the dragon would have been fruitless. Going through all that shit to only stop one Justu ? 

It's also to note that binding Madara's  movements is nigh useless considering he possesses both the Rinnegan and the EMS lol. So the wood dragon basically had to negate both Ninjustu and movement. Which would explain the combination attack between Hashirama and Naruto, and why Madara couldn't even do anything to stop from getting decimated.


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## Fiiction (Apr 6, 2014)

I just noticed I didn't put in sealing tags lol.. anyways Hashirama wins  extreme difficulty.


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## Dominus (Apr 7, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> If Madara couldn't use Rinnegan Justu and couldn't even move an inch, I find it hard to believe he could activate the rods. That wouldn't even make logical sense. If he could then Hashirama binding him with the dragon would have been fruitless. Going through all that shit to only stop one Justu ?
> 
> It's also to note that binding Madara's  movements is nigh useless considering he possesses both the Rinnegan and the EMS lol. So the wood dragon basically had to negate both Ninjustu and movement. Which would explain the combination attack between Hashirama and Naruto, and why Madara couldn't even do anything to stop from getting decimated.



My point was that they were in a similar condition, Hashirama was panting and  , he wasn't in any condition to fight.


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## genii96 (Apr 25, 2014)

Madara clearly wins


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## Krippy (Apr 26, 2014)

This already happened in the manga. Madara won.


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## Dominus (Apr 27, 2014)

Krippy said:


> This already happened in the manga. Madara won.



Madara didn't win until Obito revived him with Rinne Tensei and he got "his past powers back", before that he was immobilized by Hashirama.


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## KeyofMiracles (Apr 27, 2014)

Krippy said:


> This already happened in the manga. Madara won.



Cause Madara being completely immobilized is a victory for him amirite?


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## joshhookway (Apr 27, 2014)

Can this Madara use Limbo?


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## Krippy (Apr 27, 2014)

Authoritah said:


> Madara didn't win until Obito revived him with Rinne Tensei and he got "his past powers back", before that he was immobilized by Hashirama.





KeyofMiracles said:


> Cause Madara being completely immobilized is a victory for him amirite?



Madara won the moment he shanked hashi with the black rods. Unless you can prove he needed to be alive to immobilize him with the rods he won seeing how hashi needed help from Naruto's COFRS.


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## Jagger (Apr 27, 2014)

joshhookway said:


> Can this Madara use Limbo?


I don't think he can. After Madara was revived, the manga made perfectly clear that a "fake Rin'negan" isn't capable of using certain jutsu compared to the "real one" and that Madara's power levels drastically augmented after his revival, allowing him to use jutsu he couldn't use before.

Not to mention the fact Madara never dared to use the technique only until he was revived.


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## Larcher (Apr 27, 2014)

Like in the Manga, Madara wins.


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## Dominus (Apr 27, 2014)

Krippy said:


> Madara won the moment he shanked hashi with the black rods. Unless you can prove he needed to be alive to immobilize him with the rods he won seeing how hashi needed help from Naruto's COFRS.



Neither of them could move while they were Edo Tensei. So it was pretty much a draw.


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## Jagger (Apr 27, 2014)

Hashirama was tired and panting, but he was still capable of moving.

His movements were restricted only after Madara used a specific hand seal to bind him and leave him out of the fight. Not even a moment before that one, Hashirama remarked he couldn't move at all.


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## Dominus (Apr 27, 2014)

He could move a bit probably, but he was so tired that he couldn't even stand anymore.


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## Jagger (Apr 27, 2014)

Authoritah said:


> He could move a bit probably, but he was so tired that he couldn't even stand anymore.


Despite being tired and exhausted for fighting against Madara in VotE, Hashirama was still capable of binding Kurama.

Still, you have a point. Hashirama wouldn't have been capable of removing the black rods since that sees impossible unless given some kind of extraordinary power like the one Sasuke currently has.

Another thing to consider is that Hashirama never used his strongest technique (Shinsuusenju) during their fight.


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## Dominus (Apr 27, 2014)

Jagger said:


> Despite being tired and exhausted for fighting against Madara in VotE, Hashirama was still capable of binding Kurama.



I'm not sure what you're talking about, at the end of their fight at VotE Kurama wasn't there, it was just Madara and Hashirama.



> Another thing to consider is that Hashirama never used his strongest technique (Shinsuusenju) during their fight.



Yeah, but it's restricted here.


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## Dr. White (Apr 27, 2014)

It'll be a close matchup. Both can pretty much match eachother here, Madara will go rinnengan and Hashi will go SM. From there I'd say it depends who lands there binding and or trump card first. Hashi can use the bjuu weigh down pillars and madara can use the chakra rods. From there Meteor, and or PS vs Pollen world, and SM Moku Human- beast mix. Madara's use of Mokuton actually gives him a slight edge (although SM Hashi should be able to make more), I honestly don't know who'd win.


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## Krippy (Apr 27, 2014)

Authoritah said:


> Neither of them could move while they were Edo Tensei. So it was pretty much a draw.



But Madara did it first, and he was casual about the whole scenario, as he didn't even bother to try to escape wood dragon. Hashirama was panting, needed assistance, and madara presumably could have immobilized him at anytime after he got impaled by the rods.

He definitely has the edge.


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## Dominus (Apr 27, 2014)

Krippy said:


> But Madara did it first, and he was casual about the whole scenario, as he didn't even bother to try to escape wood dragon. Hashirama was panting, needed assistance, and madara presumably could have immobilized him at anytime after he got impaled by the rods.
> 
> He definitely has the edge.



It's not that he didn't bother escaping, it's that he couldn't. He was calm because he was certain that Zetsu would force Obito into reviving him.


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## Dr. White (Apr 27, 2014)

Minato can press Oro from the start with Hirashin, although Oro with Snakes, and Oral rebirth should be able to get through especially with zetsu body. Here is the defining point though. Can Orochimaru get his Edo Tensei summoned before Minato Chou: Odama's him. You gave Minato Ni Dai Senin so they can mold chakra for him. Plus he can make a clone to make sure Oro dies. With no knowledge I don't see him summoning them right away though, and manda 2.0 can keep Minato at bay for a while. So Oro should atleast be able to get the Sound 5 out. Together as a unit with Kimmo, and Sakon/Ukon upfront with their hax is dangerous especially with Jiroubo their for doton. Furthermore Tayuya could act as her own unit summoning her guards to protect her from blitz and genjutsuiing everyone but Oro, so he can deliver a kill strike or go into SM. If he gets Hiruzen and Yondaime Kaze out he can def get into SM. From their it's too late IMO for Sage Minato to capitalize on. Oro wins High diff.

Obito kills Oro IMO. Oro doesn't start a sage which means Kamui blitzing will take a toll on Oro and won't allow him to concentrate or summon. Even if he does Summon Obito can send them to wander in his dimension (idk if Oro can control them through dimensions), Obito can genjutsu him, and decapitate him. Surprises don't matter with Kamui and Izanagi. He can literally just stand over Oro and keep decapitating him, but with genjutsu it won't matter much. Obito wins Mid - Extreme Diff (the latter assuming Oro managed to summon, and go SM, or his edo's could attack from Kamui dimension)

Itachi is a big threat to Oro here because he doesn't start with SM out. This will be Orochimaru's top concern, get into SM. Itachi with his crow's/genjutsu could end this early especially without knowledge on Ukataka, or threat of lang range genjutsu. I see Oro retreating via doton, or underground snake ride. Keeping snakes (maybe Manda 2.0 or Manda no Jin) to keep Itachi busy. Ama turns any of the snakes into dust, and Susano can protect against Manda 2.0 while the snake burns, or it can just get sealed. Same deal with Manda no Jin. Problem is it will take over a minute allowing Oro SM, and immunity to visual genjutsu. From here they battle it out, Ama can take care of Edo's along with totsuka; with Itachi not dealing with stamina issues he can afford to use them leisurely here. Oro doesn't really have anything to bust susano with, so he would have to rely on Tayuya's jutsu (itachi's crow could get him out if summonned, if not he would have to dispel it via pain, or chakra control which would leave a slight opening) to win, or the death seal, overall I see Itachi winning via MS High - Extreme Diff. Especially because he has a decent chance at ending oro before SM.

 current sauce wins no diff. EMS Sasuke Wins Mid diff.

KCM Naruto can blitz oro before he can summon, or go SM, even if he has 1 clone to help him tail Oro he can be an extreme threat. Naruto wins low -mid diff

Prime Nagato takes before oro can do much. Also has soul rip for edo's. mid diff at most


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## Jagger (Apr 27, 2014)

Lolwut              .


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## Jagger (Apr 27, 2014)

Authoritah said:


> I'm not sure what you're talking about, at the end of their fight at VotE Kurama wasn't there, it was just Madara and Hashirama.


After the fight between Madara and Hashirama ended, both the Shodai and Mito sealed the Kyuubi inside of the latter. In fact, we even saw one of Kurama's flashbacks of Hashirama bleeding saying it (Kurama) was too dangerous to let it roam free.



> Yeah, but it's restricted here.


Oh, didn't see that one.


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## Dominus (Apr 28, 2014)

Jagger said:


> After the fight between Madara and Hashirama ended, both the Shodai and Mito sealed the Kyuubi inside of the latter. In fact, we even saw one of Kurama's flashbacks of Hashirama bleeding saying it (Kurama) was too dangerous to let it roam free.



It wasn't really clear what happened to Kurama in that fight. Before Hashirama's flashback it was implied that , Minato also said that if the man he's fighting is Madara,  because like we already know . So I'm not really sure what happened, when I look at the last moments of their fight Kurama wasn't around. There are around four possibilities of what could have happened:
1) What you said
2) Mito sealed Kurama during their battle, after Hashirama put Kurama to sleep
3) Kurama was sleeping during the last moments of Hashirama's and Madara's fight and Mito came to the battlefield after their fight and sealed Kurama inside her alone or with Hashirama
4) Kurama disappeared because the summoning time ran out and Kurama was sealed inside Mito when Hashirama got the other tailed beasts or when he was giving them to the other villages/around that time period


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## ARGUS (Apr 28, 2014)

Authoritah said:


> It wasn't really clear what happened to Kurama in that fight. Before Hashirama's flashback it was implied that , Minato also said that if the man he's fighting is Madara,  because like we already know . So I'm not really sure what happened, when I look at the last moments of their fight Kurama wasn't around. There are around four possibilities of what could have happened:
> 1) What you said
> 2) Mito sealed Kurama during their battle, after Hashirama put Kurama to sleep
> 3) Kurama was sleeping during the last moments of Hashirama's and Madara's fight and Mito came to the battlefield after their fight and sealed Kurama inside her alone or with Hashirama
> 4) Kurama disappeared because the summoning time ran out and Kurama was sealed inside Mito when Hashirama got the other tailed beasts or when he was giving them to the other villages/around that time period


Number 2 seems to be the most reasonable and logical possibility here,, since the battle seemed to be shifted to the final valley after kurama went to sleep thereby possibly allowing mito to seal it within herself


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