# Jiraiya & Orochimaru VS. Pain



## Undead (Jun 27, 2013)

*Scenario 1* 

Same exact scenario as the cannon fight between Jiraiya and Pain, except Orochimaru is added to the mix.

"_Orochimaru...If you had changed just a little sooner, then Jiraiya wouldn't have died..._" *- Tsunade (Chapter 635)*

That quote made me curious how this fight would go. 

*Scenario 2* 

Add Tsunade to the group.​


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## Nikushimi (Jun 27, 2013)

Orochimaru: Jiraiya... We don't stand a chance against this guy. We've gotten plenty of intel; let's pull out for now. We can put all the pieces together and try to figure out Pain's identity later.

Jiraiya: You're right. I was getting a little too emotionally invested in this battle. Thanks.

*smoke bomb + Shunshin escape*



And that's how Jiraiya would've survived.


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## Undead (Jun 27, 2013)

You don't think Jiraiya stands a much better chance with Oro?

What about scenario 2?


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## SubtleObscurantist (Jun 27, 2013)

Current Orochimaru?

He now has a Zetsu clone body, which probably means the following.

-Substantially more stamina
-Even more endurance
-No need for sustenance
-Chakra sensing
-Chakra absorption powers
-Chakra transfer powers
-Stronger chakras, ergo stronger jutsu

What's interesting is that _theoretically_, with more and stronger chakras and a stronger body, he should now be able to wield the perfect sage mode Kabuto did. Of course that is no guarantee that he can, since it might well take extra practice. But I would not be surprised if, in the upcoming chapters, Orochimaru resurrects Jiraiya and all  of the Sannin wield a perfected sage mode.


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## Undead (Jun 27, 2013)

Yes, current Orochimaru.


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## SubtleObscurantist (Jun 27, 2013)

Who, if anyone, can he resurrect with Edo Tensei?


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## Undead (Jun 27, 2013)

When I made this thread, I didn't really put thought into Edo Tensei. Hmm... I'll allow Hashirama and Tobirama. Although that seems a bit overpowered... But I do recall Tobirama recently stating that when they were revived by Orochimaru, they weren't even close to full power.

So i'll allow them.

Wondering if I should just restrict Edo Tensei overall.  Then again, Pain has numbers...


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## Samehadaman (Jun 27, 2013)

I think Jiraya and Orochimaru would win this more often than not. Jiraya by himself took out 3 paths. With Orochimaru backing him up he has a much easier time getting to sage mode. Orochimaru is pretty smart and will no doubt help figure out Pain's secret earlier than Jiraya did alone.
And Orochimaru is a beast in fights. Almost impossible to put down, lots of attacks, summons, rashomon gates, etc.


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## Nikushimi (Jun 27, 2013)

Edo Tensei changes nothing as an old Hiruzen was able to best the Senju Bros. in physical combat simultaneously and Pain is much more physically capable (and can soul-rip casually).



Paragon said:


> You don't think Jiraiya stands a much better chance with Oro?



He does stand a much better chance.

Of surviving.

By getting the fuck out of there instead of throwing his life away trying to figure out who Pain is when he could've just left and figured it out later (since the realization just randomly hit him when he recognized the identities of the bodies).



> What about scenario 2?



With Tsunade, who knows?

They may actually force Pain to retreat.

Or if they're unlucky, he may just decide he'd rather destroy Amegakure himself than let them do as they please.

In which case, Chibaku Tensei = gfg.


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## SubtleObscurantist (Jun 27, 2013)

Paragon said:


> When I made this thread, I didn't really put thought into Edo Tensei. Hmm... I'll allow Hashirama and Tobirama. Although that seems a bit overpowered... But I do recall Tobirama recently stating that when they were revived by Orochimaru, they weren't even close to full power.
> 
> So i'll allow them.
> 
> Wondering if I should just restrict Edo Tensei overall.  Then again, Pain has numbers...



Except these days, Orochimaru can bring people back at full power. And if he was working alongside Jiraiya to protect the village from Pain, Hasharima and Tobirama would support them.


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## Veo (Jun 27, 2013)

Samehadaman said:


> Orochimaru is pretty smart and will no doubt help figure out Pain's secret earlier than Jiraya did alone.



Orochimaru is smart, no doubt but Jiraya was able to figure out about the bodies mainly because he knew them when they were human. I don't think Orochimaru could have find out Pain's secrets as Jiraya did.

The thing is, if Orochimaru was involved in the fight, Nagato would be much more serious and would play his big weapons earlier. So having Orochimaru there, when both of them had so little intel on Nagato, is not a garantee of victory for the sannin.

Also, Deva could also chibaku tensei the whole place if needed.

This said, the sannin are awesome and would come up with something. That combat would have been freaking awesome.


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## SubtleObscurantist (Jun 27, 2013)

Orochimaru probably already knew that Pain was Nagato given that Kabuto knew to resurrect him and had his DNA and he clearly knows a good deal about the Rinnegan since Kabuto knew enough about those same powers to use them effectively in battle when he overwrote Nagato's mind.


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## Undead (Jun 27, 2013)

I doubt Orochimaru knew. Otherwise he would make note that he's run into Nagato before in Amegakure, where he suggested Jiraiya & Tsunade that they kill the orphans.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jun 27, 2013)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> Current Orochimaru?
> 
> He now has a Zetsu clone body, which probably means the following.
> 
> ...



I don't know if having a zetsu body is a good or a bad thing.

While he may have all those, he may also be slow as fuck. Because as far as I know, none of the zetsu bodies have demonstrated above mediocre speed.
He may get blitzed by rookie 9.


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## Luftwaffles (Jun 27, 2013)

Damn, current Orochimaru doesn't have Manda


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## SubtleObscurantist (Jun 27, 2013)

Current Orochimaru probably has Manda 2.0. Kishi said Naruto could summon any toad, and assuming Manda 2.0 lives amongst the other snakes, he could probably summon him. 

Also, Grimmjow, Fushi Tensei doesn't seem to work like that. Orochimaru's physical abilities don't seem to change based on the body he is except to _add_ to his power. Otherwise his body takes on the same properties as he always had. Despite using an inferior host at the end of Part II, he didn't seem any slower when fighting KN4 Naruto.


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## Undead (Jun 28, 2013)

Deus ex Shinobi said:


> Damn, current Orochimaru doesn't have Manda


Like Subtle stated, he probably has a different snake summon to unleash.


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## Shizune (Jun 28, 2013)

Orochimaru's presence here is going to help Jiraiya enormously.

He would have prepared edo tensei, meaning they would close the number gap. With his interest in psychological warfare, I'm guessing it might be former Akatsuki members... Hidan and Kakuzu maybe? Regardless, I think that he was forced to cap Tobirama and Hashirama's abilities at an extreme low to prevent them from gaining independence, whereas here his summons are likely to be more practical. Human Path can counter edo tensei, but Pain's lack of knowledge on the jutsu means it'll be awhile before he attempts to remove their souls - and by then, it might be too late for Human Path.

Orochimaru's presence will make entering sage mode much smoother for Jiraiya, particularly with his ability to poison Cerberus. He doesn't use much ninjutsu for Preta to absorb, and his swordplay will keep Human at bay. By the time all six paths are summoned, they'll be facing a good-to-go sage Jiraiya, Orochimaru, and edo tenseis. Nagato's love for his village will prevent him from using his most destructive techniques, while Jiraiya and Orochimaru will be unleashing massive combinations of sage techniques and boss summons.

It's not impossible that Pain could win, but I doubt his odds against techniques like frog song, hydra, and whatever the edos have. I'd give it to the Sannin more often than not.


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## Hero (Jun 28, 2013)

Since when did Orochimaru have part zetsu in him


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## SubtleObscurantist (Jun 28, 2013)

Hero said:


> Since when did Orochimaru have part zetsu in him



After he summoned the Hokage he used Fushi Tensei to transfer into one of the Zetsu clones that had been attached to Sasuke.


Paragon said:


> I doubt Orochimaru knew. Otherwise he would make note that he's run into Nagato before in Amegakure, where he suggested Jiraiya & Tsunade that they kill the orphans.



I don't get what you are saying. At what point in the plot would he have done this? He wasn't in contact with Jiraiya and Tsunade. Where else do you think Kabuto got his knowledge? It was all Orochimaru's stuff. That's how Kabuto knew about Tobi being behind Akatsuki and a significant amount about their plan.


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## joshhookway (Jun 28, 2013)

Edo minato soloes


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## Hazuki (Jun 29, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> Orochimaru: Jiraiya... We don't stand a chance against this guy. We've gotten plenty of intel; let's pull out for now. We can put all the pieces together and try to figure out Pain's identity later.
> 
> Jiraiya: You're right. I was getting a little too emotionally invested in this battle. Thanks.
> 
> ...



irt's funny , when the manga said the color is black , you guy think the color is yellow 

you are blind when that it arrange you 

when oro admited he was weaker than itachi , everyone beleive him  but when it's against your favourite caractere , everyone ignore it 


orochimaru and jiraiya would have rape pain 

jiraiya himself would have beat him with more aknoledge 

stop ignoring manga like a fanboy blinded


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