# Shanks vs. Dragon



## trance (Dec 14, 2014)

Two of the most overrated characters in the series go head to head. 

Location: Alabasta 

Intel: Full

Mindset: Bloodlusted

Distance: 50m


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## Orca (Dec 14, 2014)

Could go either way.


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## jNdee~ (Dec 14, 2014)

I'm more of a Shanks guy, sooo


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## Chrollo Lucilfer (Dec 14, 2014)

Shanks has more hype, and being a yonkou alone makes him one of the strongest.
Dragon could pull a 'Fisher Tiger' 
but he is Luffy's father
Garp's son
fuck i don't know. It goes either way


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## Datassassin (Dec 14, 2014)

Maybe the guy who should be at the very least stronger than Prime Garp and whose goal overshadows Roger's Pirate King thing.


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## Amol (Dec 14, 2014)

I consider Dragon current WSM.
This is a shonen manga . Only those with powers are feared. You are not threat in these seas if you can't back your words with action .
WG doesn't fear anybody without a reason .
And you simply can't be a weak when you are son of motherfucking Garp and Father of MC.
@Trance : You forgot to type Akainu in OP. You see as most overrated character he should be there. 
Or maybe he is in tie with Mihawk.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Dec 14, 2014)

Dragon should defeat Shanks with very high-extreme difficulty. 
That's how I estimate him right now, based on where the story is going. 

He might be stronger than that, but I just can't imagine him getting weaker. Given his relevance...

Just my opinion.


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## LyricalMessiah (Dec 14, 2014)

Current WSM on what basis exactly? The fearsome portrayal of his army led by an admittedly truly powerful man is indeed a vacuous assessment for his nomination of current world's strongest man. We've barely gotten halfway through the New world and there has been a couple of characters who've edged closer to such a title than Dragon. There's no reason for such a baseless judgement this early on in the story line. It isn't unreasonable to speculate on him being amongst the strongest but strongest is a baseless assumption. We'll see in due time.

As for this match-up? I'll go with Shanks due to his prior shown feats of clashing with Whitebeard that was a byproduct of the heaven's splitting in two in addition to getting into the midst of the climaxed war in Marine-ford that harbored a mass amount of testosterone and blood-lusted men itching for the demise of their enemies which he succeeded in having a significant impact on the conclusion of the war. When someone like Akainu  has his scorching ignition for exterminating the pirates he deems evil incidentally wither away, it's a consideration for how fearsome Shanks is.

I am going by what we've been shown of Shanks' feats thus far and besides those mentions above or the fact that he's a yonkou, there aren't many other feats.


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## Vengeance (Dec 14, 2014)

I think they are more or less equal, If I had to decide I would pick Dragon, extreme difficulty.


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## TheWiggian (Dec 14, 2014)

Going with Shanks. If the right hand of Dragon is so weak i cant take this guy serious. Shanks high diff, maybe high high diff.


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## LyricalMessiah (Dec 14, 2014)

TheWiggian said:


> Going with Shanks. If the right hand of Dragon is so weak i cant take this guy serious. Shanks high diff, maybe high high diff.



Sabo isn't weak. He hasn't gone completely out with the shown display of his arsenal. Him being weak, a statement premised on incorrect reasoning by you, does not taint Dragon's overall capability.


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## TheWiggian (Dec 14, 2014)

LyricalMessiah said:


> Sabo isn't weak. He hasn't gone completely out with the shown display of his arsenal. Him being weak, a statement premised on incorrect reasoning by you, does not taint Dragon's overall capability.



Now the wank starts again 

He was helpless against a restricted, holding back Issho.
If he cant do shit to an admiral i guess it says alot about the number 1.

IMO Dragon is on par with the admirals, maybe slightly stronger, would also make sense with Sabos powerlvl.


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## Pirao (Dec 14, 2014)

Sakazuki appears mid fight like a ninja and fists them both.




PS: Probably Shanks by a bit.


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## LyricalMessiah (Dec 14, 2014)

TheWiggian said:


> Now the wank starts again
> 
> He was helpless against a restricted, holding back Issho.
> If he cant do shit to an admiral i guess it says alot about the number 1.
> ...




You aren't doing yourself a favor by calling me a 'wanker' for wanting to engage you in a civil debate. You've conceived a Straw-man with your opening unwitty retort. I honestly think you do not know about the topic you are trying to discuss and you try to disguise your incapability to understand the topic by filling Ad-hominems into your post to the brim.

He was not helpless against Issho. He barely sustained any grave injuries and did quite well against an Admiral level fighter such as Issho. Sabo did not go all out as well. The circumstances didn't allow them to go all out but I will agree that Issho would win against Sabo. Issho was not completely holding back even though I believe he didn't display his ability at its fullest. No. There is no correlation between the first mate being 'incompetent' in your opinion to the captain's image being tarnished as a result of that. Dragon is powerful but not necessarily stronger than shanks. Besides, Sabo is still young and has a lot of room to expand upon his powers. Fighting on 'almost' equal standings against an Admiral speaks volume for his ability.

I can agree with that. Shanks > Dragon though.

See, if you stopped with the Ad-hominems, we can have a civil discussion.


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## TheWiggian (Dec 14, 2014)

LyricalMessiah said:


> You aren't doing yourself a favor by calling me a 'wanker' for wanting to engage you in a civil debate. You've conceived a Straw-man with your opening unwitty retort. I honestly think you do not know of the topic you are trying to discuss and you try to disguise your incapability to understand the topic by filling Ad-hominems into your post to the brim.
> 
> He was not helpless against Issho. He barely sustained any grave injuries and did quite well against an Admiral level fighter such as Issho. Sabo did not go all out as well. The circumstances didn't allow them to go all out but I will agree that Issho would win against Sabo. Issho was not completely holding back even though I believe he didn't display his ability at its fullest. No. There is no correlation between the first mate being 'incompetent' in your opinion to the captain's image being tarnished as a result of that. Dragon is powerful but not necessarily stronger than shanks. Besides, Sabo is still young and has a lot of room to expand upon his powers. Fighting on 'almost' equal standings against an Admiral speaks volume for his ability.
> 
> ...



I dont see the difference between ur description of the fight Sabo vs Issho and mine. In both Sabo is inferior to Issho. 

He is inferior while both hold back and inferior when both go all out. If a holding back Sabo cant put a scratch on a holding back Issho, a all out Sabo cant put a scratch on a all out Issho aswell.

Thats why hes not an admiral lvl fighter like u claim. Thats why i call it wank and thats my opinion, ofc it can be wrong but as long as its not proved otherwise ill go with it.


And judged by that i just dont see Dragon as strong as the most see him. Sure he got alot of hype but if we go by his subordinates, he must be extremely extraordinary to be much stronger as an admiral like some think he is.


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## Bernkastel (Dec 14, 2014)

Shanks has more hype than Dragon so for now im going with Shank extreme diff,but i can easily see Dragon taking this after we see more of him since i expect him to be one of the strongest characters out there.


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## LyricalMessiah (Dec 14, 2014)

TheWiggian said:


> I dont see the difference between ur description of the fight Sabo vs Issho and mine. In both Sabo is inferior to Issho.
> 
> He is inferior while both hold back and inferior when both go all out. If a holding back Sabo cant put a scratch on a holding back Issho, a all out Sabo cant put a scratch on a all out Issho aswell.
> 
> ...



Please don't resort to Ad-hominems against your opponent.

Therefore, you were completely wrong to insult me and to assume that I was a wanker. See, you were at fault for rushing at your gladiator suit and battle axe to prepare a meaningless combat against a harmless civilian whose only mistake was to provoke the mean bad guy (you) by accidentally having kicked a ball over your fence and into your yard.

What I think is that Sabo barely sustained grave injuries as you put it and neither did Issho. Whilst all they did was engage in a scuffle, they weren't going all out and dishing their strongest attacks. We need to remember, however, that Issho seemed to display more of his strongest attacks against Sabo than Sabo did against him but that's still not relevant to argue as a case for why Sabo is stronger. Issho is stronger but barely by a lot. Basically, he used his 'named' attacks as opposed to casual fire based attacks from Sabo's part.

The term Admiral level is too vague anyways. I think someone capable of giving an Admiral a high difficulty fight is more or less on their general level with a little inferiority to them. I view Sabo, the 1st commander of the revolutionary army, the one with physical strength exceeding the likes of most Admirals including Issho who, similarly to the rest of the admirals (Notwithstanding Ryokugyu of course) does not seem to be someone with great physical strength to be able to give Issho a very hard fight. We need to remember that he's younger than Issho and has just gotten accustomed to his new powers. Take both of their abilities away from them and I am sure that Sabo would win. However, allow them their ability as well as the liberty to go all out and Issho would win with High difficulty. If sabo has as much experience as Issho has with his Devil fruit, it can go either way in my honest opinion.

That is a Non-sequitur fallacy. You say one thing to lead to another thing but they do not add up with one another. You are meaninglessly associating the cons of Sabo to someone who we've not even gotten a proper introduction from in the manga without even attempting to substantiate your argument. Sabo being weak, which he is not, does not mean that Dragon is weak. Dragon doesn't compete for a certain thing/treasure/fame that prompts him to keep on getting stronger ( Of course having strong fighters is a necessity for his task but it isn't about constantly fighting et cetera) but it deviates from fighting against people being obstacles to their MAIN task of gathering intelligence to overthrow the injustice from the World government.

 Besides, your view of Sabo is tainted with bias so I don't think it's possible for you to come up with a logical reason for which Dragon is weak... which there are none because we barely even know the guy. He's been hyped up to be the Worlds dangerous man who even the most notorious criminals fear. He's the son of Garp as well as the father of Luffy that allows him the same credibility they have in the story.

I never said he was 'stronger' than an admiral.


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## Ruse (Dec 14, 2014)

Shanks high diff


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## Luke (Dec 14, 2014)

Dragon takes this with extremely high difficulty. 

Yes, I think Dragon is currently the WSM. There's no solid evidence of this of course, but there's more than enough hype and build up to this guy to consider him so. 

The top three in the world right now are Shanks, Akainu, and Dragon. In the end, most of it's based on gut feeling between these three in terms of who's the strongest.


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## LyricalMessiah (Dec 14, 2014)

Luke said:


> Dragon takes this with extremely high difficulty.
> 
> Yes, I think Dragon is currently the WSM. There's no solid evidence of this of course, but there's more than enough hype and build up to this guy to consider him so.
> 
> The top three in the world right now are Shanks, Akainu, and Dragon. In the end, most of it's based on gut feeling between these three in terms of who's the strongest.



I respectfully disagree.

I think Dragon does indeed have a lot going for him with his immense hype, inherent relation to the notorious clan of D, and powerful 'weather' ability but that shouldn't mean that he's above the likes of Kaidou, Akainu, Shanks or even current Blackbeard. I think he's on their league but stronger than what consists of the Yonkou rankings and Admirals? 

I don't think there is anything in the manga about Dragon that yields to any definite information on whether he is the WSM. We've different types of interpretations in the manga of the strongest man currently by Oda giving a wide array of interpretation for who the strongest is such as Kaidou's title and the amount of powerful crew mates BB has gathered and the potential strength he has accumulated by himself with both of his incredible powers... indicating to us that it's quite impossible to say just who is the WSM.

As I said, it's impossible to gauge who exactly is the WSM but I can't bite your head off for speculating, something everyone does from time to time again.

Of course, this is all just my opinion


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## TheWiggian (Dec 14, 2014)

LyricalMessiah said:


> Please don't resort to Ad-hominems against your opponent.
> 
> Therefore, you were completely wrong to insult me and to assume that I was a wanker. See, you were at fault for rushing at your gladiator suit and battle axe to prepare a meaningless combat against a harmless civilian whose only mistake was to provoke the mean bad guy (you) by accidentally having kicked a ball over your fence and into your yard.



You act like ur an innocent virgin, but ok lets forget this point.



> What I think is that Sabo barely sustained grave injuries as you put it and neither did Issho. Whilst all they did was engage in a scuffle, they weren't going all out and dishing their strongest attacks. We need to remember, however, *that Issho seemed to display more of his strongest attacks against Sabo than Sabo did against him but that's still not relevant to argue as a case for why Sabo is stronger*. Issho is stronger but barely by a lot. Basically, he used his 'named' attacks as opposed to casual fire based attacks from Sabo's part.



Indeed, however Issho came out without any injuries and seeing that the named attack didnt made any dmg on Sabo because Fuji didnt imbued it with haki or wtf else he can do, leads to the option that the admiral was trolling, extremely bored or just making fun out of Sabo. The offscreen fight still was in Isshos favour no matter if both used named attacks, were not serious or both held back. The point is how they looked like at the end.



> The term Admiral level is too vague anyways. I think someone capable of giving an Admiral a high difficulty fight is more or less on their general level with a little inferiority to them. *I view Sabo, the 1st commander of the revolutionary army, the one with physical strength exceeding the likes of most Admirals including Issho who, similarly to the rest of the admirals (Notwithstanding Ryokugyu of course) does not seem to be someone with great physical strength to be able to give Issho a very hard fight.* We need to remember that he's younger than Issho and has just gotten accustomed to his new powers. Take both of their abilities away from them and I am sure that Sabo would win. However, allow them their ability as well as the liberty to go all out and Issho would win with High difficulty.* If sabo has as much experience as Issho has with his Devil fruit, it can go either way in my honest opinion.*


_
- *How can u say that? Hes still an admiral with admiral lvl stats, else he wouldnt hold that title.
  Sabo didnt shown anything like fighting for days with another person on his lvl (admiral like u  
  say). 
  - He wasnt hyped like Doffy hyped Fuji as being a beast. 
  - He was not a problem for Doffy when Diamante complained about the 2nd of the revos. Yet
    Doffy was troubled with Issho.
  - His feats r rather lousy, even compared to a M3 fighter like Law, Zoro (who clashed with Issho
    and stalled him a 2nd time off screen).*

- Based on what do u think Dfless Sabo is statswise above Dfless Issho?

- Experience might be good for his fire mastery, it just doesnt increase his stats and haki, while
  u still could explain how u put Dfless Sabo above the stats of an admiral.
_



> That is a Non-sequitur fallacy. You say one thing to lead to another thing but they do not add up with one another. You are meaninglessly associating the cons of Sabo to someone who we've not even gotten a proper introduction from in the manga without even attempting to substantiate your argument. Sabo being weak, which he is not, does not mean that Dragon is weak. Dragon doesn't compete for a certain thing/treasure/fame that prompts him to keep on getting stronger ( Of course having strong fighters is a necessity for his task but it isn't about constantly fighting et cetera) but it deviates from fighting against people being obstacles to their MAIN task of gathering intelligence to overthrow the injustice from the World government.



I hope u dont want to tell me that having weak subordinates is enough to destroy the world government. Dragon alone wont be able to do it anyway and like he stated somewhere he still dont have the power to do it. He needs more warriors, more powerful warriors and other stuff, maybe he also lacks own power, knowledge et cetera. 



> *Besides, your view of Sabo is tainted with bias so I don't think it's possible for you to come up with a logical reason for which Dragon is weak*... *which there are none because we barely even know the guy.* *He's been hyped up to be the Worlds dangerous man who even the most notorious criminals fear. He's the son of Garp as well as the father of Luffy that allows him the same credibility they have in the story.*
> 
> *I never said he was 'stronger' than an admiral*.



_
- Dragon only got hype like u said. He lacks feats, portrayal. Why is it insane to think hes not that 
  strong as some see him to be? 

- I never stated that u said he is "stronger" than an admiral.
_


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## Mr Dicklesworth (Dec 14, 2014)

Dragon pulls an Ivan from Fairy Tail and turns out to be fodder trash


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## LyricalMessiah (Dec 14, 2014)

TheWiggian said:


> You act like ur an innocent virgin, but ok lets forget this point.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



A lot of Straw-mans. Let me address them individually.

Read this 
*Spoiler*: __ 



I never made the statement that I was innocent. Whether I flamed in the past at a certain point in my life has no importance to you having Flamed me in this discussion. Your 'Ad hominems' won't help this discussion in its expedition to reaching a conclusion. You made baseless accusations against me for no reason but because we share different opinions on the matter, a trait of yours that can be traced from our debate 2-3 weeks ago (ASL brothers Vs Jozu thread) where you made incoherent accusations and meaningless insults against me wrapped together in tin-foil paper. In other words, you love to attack the messenger behind the message and not the message itself.



Sabo did not come out of the fight with relevant injuries in any parts of his body. Issho himself must of have been using Haki against Sabo because Sabo is a logia and the only way to target a Logia's body in causing damage to them is by imbuing your attacks with Haki. The latter statement renders your statement based on your subjective belief null. Trolling=/=toying around. Trolling seems to be an analysis of Issho's personality during his fight against Sabo that you came up with  no basis at all but just to discredit Sabo's overall capability and seeing as how you made random attacks against Sabo in your initial response to this thread which you OUTRIGHT admitted to doing, you are clearly uneducated on Sabo's overall capability. Foolishly making jabs at someone who held his own against an Admiral without using any of his named attacks makes your claims look dishonest.

Not of them tried their best but it's clear that Issho is Sabo's superior by an insignificant margin. It's common sense that there are reasons for which he is superior. He's not only older, but has more experience and is more accustomed with his Devil fruit, an area of control that seemed to have been the factor that determined the superior one of the two in their scuffle. One other reason that I think for why they're not all that separate from one another in terms of power is Issho having used his 'named' attack on someone who wasn't privy to the full extent of the Mera Mera no mi. 

Being an admiral level fighter does not imply that you can be powerscaled to other Admirals' with distinct fighting styles and abilities that said Admiral you want to give feats to through 'unreasonable' powerscaling is lacking in heavily. I admit that most Admirals have proportional power to one another but that has to do with their immense mastery over their 'distinct' abilities being at a high level. Fujitora seems to be a swordsman who relies on his Devil fruit and can engage in Swordsmanship at times. Sabo has displayed better physical strength in his hand to hand combat style than Fujitora evidenced by how he effortlessly broke a huge arena with his mere fingers in addition to clashing with Burgess that caused a large shockwave to spread throughout the area of the Colosseum.

In other words, to exemplify your claim, you seek to attribute Chinjao's strength with his headbutt to Fujitora because his rank merits such powerscaling when Powerscaling does not scale linearly like that. If Fujitora hasn't shown adequate strength feats, then he cannot be given feats entirely out of the scope of his capabilities. We do not know which of the two has better Haki.

I never said that Issho wasn't Admiral level neither did I say he lacked Admiral level statistics. This is a Straw-man. Being an Admiral level fighter does not mean that you have similar strength feats or speed feats to an Admiral level fighter whose abilities are centered on specific aspects of combat abilities like hand to hand combat or things mainly to do with 'speed' that is at an incredible level.

Jimbei and Ace fought for 5 days and Sabo is heaps above them. Fighting for days shouldn't be difficult. Also, the main reason why Aokiji and Akainu's fight lasted that long was because of their abilities to dishout large quantities of their elements were opposite from one another thus creating a stalemate is one of those distinct feature/circumstance that contradict the notion of powerscaling such feats to another character with complete different method of fighting.

Show me the scan. Please enlighten me with such a falsehood. Some characters are just too blissfully confident in their skills that they aren't forced to show a sign of respect or fear for a character being hyped out. The revolutionaries haven't a name centered on the individual power of their members but with their combined effort in causing mayhem against Government affiliated areas. Also, DOFLAMINGO attacked FUJITORA. Shows how much your 'Fujitora is feared by Doflamingo' argument is lacking. 

Zoro isn't weak. He never stalled against Issho. He shot a surge of his slash from his sword at Fujitora. Fujitora was worried about the civilians whilst also praising his, Zoro's, strength.

I never said anything the way you interpreted my comment as. Heck, I even admitted that it'd be awful to exclude there being a stipulation established in the system of the revolutionaries of having to be a powerful fighter in order to join. I said they deviate their tasks from working together as a group to subtly take down government established/affiliated cities that spread injustice, gathering Intel and finally to FIGHT against whoever stands in their way... usually Marine related people more than pirate.

The basis on which the foundation of your claim that Dragon is weak has to do with your misguided view on how power works such as when you made ludicrous statements against Sabo. You're associating one man's con to another's who contrary to your delusions has shown immense hype and was spoken in the same breath as strong characters... having the highest bounty as well as being someone who even many strong fighters fear is a testament to his strength.

You, once again, are purposely misinterpreting my statement. Why do you do this, man? I never claimed that he, Sabo, was stronger than an admiral but could contend with the admirals by giving them a high difficulty fight assuming that his fight with an admiral is a serious one unlike his fight against Fujitora.


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## Luke (Dec 14, 2014)

Jesus Christ


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## Daisuke Jigen (Dec 14, 2014)

Mr Dicklesworth said:


> Dragon pulls an Ivan from Fairy Tail and turns out to be fodder trash



Best post in the thread.


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## TheWiggian (Dec 14, 2014)

LyricalMessiah said:


> I never made the statement that I was innocent. Whether I flamed in the past at a certain point in my life has no importance to you having Flamed me in this discussion. Your 'Ad hominems' won't help this discussion in its expedition to reaching a conclusion. You made baseless accusations against me for no reason but because we share different opinions on the matter, a trait of yours that can be traced from our debate 2-3 weeks ago (ASL brothers Vs Jozu thread) where you made incoherent accusations and meaningless insults against me wrapped together in tin-foil paper. In other words, you love to attack the messenger behind the message and not the message itself.



Ye ye keep crying about it, it gets boring. I said lets forget that point nope u keep going.



> Sabo did not come out of the fight with relevant injuries in any parts of his body. Issho himself must of have been using Haki against Sabo because Sabo is a logia and the only way to target a Logia's body in causing damage to them is by imbuing your attacks with Haki. The latter statement renders your statement based on your subjective belief null. Trolling=/=toying around. Trolling seems to be an analysis of Issho's personality during his fight against Sabo that you came up with  no basis at all but just to discredit Sabo's overall capability and seeing as how you made random attacks against Sabo in your initial response to this thread which you OUTRIGHT admitted to doing, you are clearly uneducated on Sabo's overall capability. Foolishly making jabs at someone who held his own against an Admiral without using any of his named attacks makes your claims look dishonest.



As shown the named attack from Isshos was not imbued with haki, else it would have hit Sabo.
Fuji indeed is kind of a troll, he summoned a meteor before fighting Sabo.

He did the same while chasing the strawhats, eating while levitating a huge warship.

Why he couldnt be a troll????



> Not of them tried their best but it's clear that Issho is Sabo's superior by an insignificant margin. It's common sense that there are reasons for which he is superior. He's not only older, but has more experience and is more accustomed with his Devil fruit, an area of control that seemed to have been the factor that determined the superior one of the two in their scuffle. One other reason that I think for why they're not all that separate from one another in terms of power is Issho having used his 'named' attack on someone who wasn't privy to the full extent of the Mera Mera no mi.



So? Hes also superior in stats and haki until Sabo proves otherwise.



> Being an admiral level fighter does not imply that you can be powerscaled to other Admirals' with distinct fighting styles and abilities that said Admiral you want to give feats to through 'unreasonable' powerscaling is lacking in heavily. I admit that most Admirals have proportion power to one another but that has to do with their immense mastery over their 'distinct' abilities being at a high level. Fujitora seems to be a swordsman who relies on his Devil fruit and can engage in Swordsmanship at times. *Sabo has displayed better physical strength in his hand to hand combat style* than Fujitora evidenced by how he effortlessly broke a huge arena with his mere fingers in addition to clashing with Burgess that caused a large shockwave to spread throughout the area of the Colosseum.



ck ok if u believe it 



> In other words, to exemplify your claim, you seek to attribute Chinjao's strength with his headbutt to Fujitora because his rank merits such powerscaling when Powerscaling does not scale linearly like that. If Fujitora hasn't shown adequate strength feats, then he cannot be given feats entirely out of the scope of his capabilities. *We do not know which of the two has better Haki.*



Well why didnt Sabo put a single scratch on a tangible admiral then? Or how do a blind guy defends against fire?



> I never said that Issho wasn't Admiral level neither did I say he lacked Admiral level statistics. This is a Straw-man. Being an Admiral level fighter does not mean that you have similar strength feats or speed feats to an Admiral level fighter whose abilities are centered on specific aspects of combat abilities like hand to hand combat or things mainly to do with 'speed' that is at an incredible level.



He is an admiral like Aokiji, Akainu and Kizaru. His title alrdy proves hes on par with them in most - all areas. 



> Jimbei and Ace fought for 5 days and Sabo is heaps above them. Fighting for days shouldn't be difficult. Also, the main reason why Aokiji and Akainu's fight lasted that long was because of their abilities to dishout large quantities of their elements were opposite from one another thus creating a stalemate is one of those distinct feature/circumstance that contradict the notion of powerscaling such feats to another character with complete different method of fighting.



And thus based on their endurance i guess or else they could cover the whole planet in ice and/or magma. 



> Show me the scan. Please enlighten me with such a falsehood. Some characters are just too blissfully confident in their skills that they aren't forced to show a sign of respect or fear for a character being hyped out. The revolutionaries haven't a name centered on the individual power of their members but with their combined effort in causing mayhem against Government affiliated areas. Also, DOFLAMINGO attacked FUJITORA. Shows how much your 'Fujitora is feared by Doflamingo' argument is lacking.




*Spoiler*: __ 




Doflamingo: I’ve already spoken with him. The Marines won’t come after us. / That said...once Fujitora is no longer useful to us... // I think we should eliminate him. Nothing good will come of letting that man live. / Not that it will be an easy task...







> Zoro isn't weak. He never stalled against Issho. He shot a surge of his slash from his sword at Fujitora. Fujitora was worried about the civilians whilst also praising his, Zoro's, strength.



Thats their first encounter. The 2nd time they fought was an off topic and Zoro looked much better as Sabo afterwards.



> I never said anything the way you interpreted my comment as. Heck, I even admitted that it'd be awful to exclude there being a stipulation established in the system of the revolutionaries of having to be a powerful fighter in order to join. I said they deviate their tasks from working together as a group to subtly take down government established/affiliated cities that spread injustice, gathering Intel and finally to FIGHT against whoever stands in their way... usually Marine related people more than pirate.







> The basis on which the foundation of my claim that Dragon is weak has to do with your misguided view on how power works such as when you made ludicrous statements against Sabo. You're associating one man's con to another's who contrary to your delusions has shown immense hype and was spoken in the same breath as strong characters... having the highest bounty as well as being someone who even many strong fighters fear is a testament to his strength.



Yeye my opinion is as always wrong, i think i heard that somewhere alrdy. 



> You, once again, are purposely misinterpreting my statement. Why do you do this, man? I never claimed that he, Sabo, was stronger than an admiral but could contend with the admirals by giving them a high difficulty fight assuming that his fight with an admiral is a serious one unlike his fight against Fujitora.



Like i said before if they both go all out, Sabo still will be helpless.


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## LyricalMessiah (Dec 14, 2014)

TheWiggian said:


> Ye ye keep crying about it, it gets boring. I said lets forget that point nope u keep going.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Heh. Keep on trolling.


You do realize the massive contradiction in your claim, right? I am beginning to think that you're not even trying at this point. Before I begin, you're trying to discredit Issho's intelligence with which he makes use of in battle by saying that he doesn't know of the conventional method of injuring a Logia when you claim that he never USED HAKI against a logia, Sabo. Furthermore, why would he not use Haki against a Logia? An admiral not knowing that Haki is the only method to hurt a logia is... i can't even define the level of wrong in your statement.

You do realize the ridiculousness of being under the assumption that Issho didn't activate his haki during his fight against a powerful person like Sabo, right...?

 It should be common sense as well as ingrained within the viewers minds that any strong fighter with the ability to utilize Haki has it on at all times when against a logia because there would be no way to strike them in the first place. There are exceptions when Haki is of no use to a logia when their real body can be breached through using a natural substance against them such as Crocodile and water or monet and heat.

 In one of the two instances in which Issho had his Haki on, Issho should have logically had his haki on against Sabo when physically clashing with him to prevent burning and to hit his real body once he maneuvers away from Sabo's attacks to strike him and I am not sure about the other instance. Perhaps Issho cannot imbue his horizontal gravity 'ferocious tiger' with haki as it's not an attack that he emits from his body or channels through a weapon he holds and later releases towards an intended target. It seems to be generated from where gravity in itself comes from. Either way, during most of his fighting against him, he did use Haki against him.

Saying that the reason for which Issho did not use Haki against a powerful is due to him being a troll makes you look like a troll.

I never said he wasn't superior to Sabo in haki. We don't know who's superior to who in terms of Haki. All that we know is that Fujitora should have a greater output of damage with his meteors, stamina and that's about all. Physical strength goes to Sabo. Overall strength goes to Fujitora not by a lot.

Yes, a fact indeed.

Because Fujitora is stronger, which I never disagreed with. Besides, he gave Fujitora some difficulty against him. Sabo seemed to have almost non-existent grave injuries present on his body to compensate for him not having given Fujitora worthy damage. It nullifies the claim that Sabo is weak for that reason.

No, rank does not dictate having physical stats far beyond the scope of your overall capability. Fujitora uses his gravity to improve his overall showings and the destructiveness seen when he engages in fights is a result of him emitting his gravity. Rank doesn't allow you to gain attributes that your fighting style differs to and isn't something that prompts you to try to assimilate other fighting style if your ability with your devil fruit as well as your adequate swordsmanship are already a fearsome combination.

Straw-man.

Scan is irrelevant. Doflamingo isn't afraid of Fujitora and has shown no fear of Aokiji, a man arguably above Fujitora. Therefore, this does not mean Sabo is a scrub to Fujitora.

We never saw that fight directly on panel and thus can't assess what happened. Please provide the panel so we can discuss about it. Zoro looked decent against Fujitora... not that he'd win against him it's an instance that proves that Fujitora won't completely fodderize him. Beisdes Sabo > Zoro.

That's an understatement. Your opinions are beyond and go beyond any form of logic normal humans are knowing of. Apes are the only creatures capable of understanding your tirades.

Like I said. Sabo is inferior to Issho. If they fight seriously, Issho won't be dominating him with ease. It'll be a high difficulty fight in favor of Issho. We've to remember that this is a Sabo who's had only a few minutes of experience with his fruit.


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## tanman (Dec 14, 2014)

For some reason, I have a really hard time seeing Dragon being WSM. I guess I wouldn't like it because then the most powerful man in the world has Luffy's back, which kind of lowers the stakes. With Shanks, it's different because when push comes to shove, Luffy sees him as a rival, as a goal.


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## convict (Dec 14, 2014)

tanman said:


> For some reason, I have a really hard time seeing Dragon being WSM. *I guess I wouldn't like it because then the most powerful man in the world has Luffy's back*, which kind of lowers the stakes. With Shanks, it's different because when push comes to shove, Luffy sees him as a rival, as a goal.



Even if that were the case for now it will not be for long. Teach will surpass both of them. And even if Luffy considers Shanks a rival, Shanks still considers Luffy a friend and likely has his back just as strongly as Dragon does.

For me it is extreme difficulty either way. 2 of the strongest candidates for World's Strongest Man.


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## SsjAzn (Dec 14, 2014)

Can go either way for me.


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## Gohara (Dec 15, 2014)

It can go either way, but if I have to choose I lean towards Dragon winning with extremely high difficulty.


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## Lawliet (Dec 15, 2014)

Shanks got some mad hype going on for him, but so does Dragon. My vote goes to Dragon though.


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## Ekkologix (Dec 15, 2014)

we know almost nothing about both of them but hypes. and hypes were dissapointing alot of time.
could go either way depending on however their abilities was.
note: most wanted man does not mean most strongest kk for the sake of those people who go bounty-wise.

but dragon seems to be so epic, gotta have a weather or wind devil fruit. he can pretty much make tsunami's and thunder clouds, and a huge wind and destroy as much as whitebeared gura gura no mi. looking forward to see this living version of nami's clima-tact so much.


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## barreltheif (Dec 15, 2014)

We don't really know enough about them.
All we know is that they're both top tiers, and that Shanks is weaker than Mihawk.


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## jNdee~ (Dec 15, 2014)

lewl at that.


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## Ekkologix (Dec 15, 2014)

barreltheif said:


> We don't really know enough about them.
> All we know is that they're both top tiers, and that Shanks is weaker than Mihawk.



i dont think shanks is weaker than mihawk, ik mihawk lost interest in shanks after losing an arm but i doubt he is weaker, they are really close in strength.

for some reason i have a feeling that mihawk will leave the crappy government and join shanks, then shanks will be the world strongest man. 
Luffy will then do his promise and come with a team that beat shanks team, in such EoS luffy beat shanks and EoS zoro beats mihawk.

dragon might be behind both shanks and mihawk, probably at current bb level.


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