# Best Shonen - A possibly constructive discussion.



## RivFader (Nov 6, 2009)

This thread is based of a conversation from Jetstorm and Han Solo in the Oda Fans > Other Shonen Fans thread.


*Spoiler*: _Parts of the conversation_ 





Jetstorm said:


> I'm still wondering when OP fans are going to realize being better than Bleach and Naruto in any category hasn't been an accomplishment for years now.
> 
> Thread starter makes me lol.





Han Solo said:


> It's not that it's better than Naruto or Bleach, it's that it's one of the best shounen out there right now and has been over the last 10 years.
> 
> Fullmetal Alchemist has higer quality writing I guess, and Hunter x Hunter has better fights and a better power system but the art is shit, and Togashi's constant hiatus' means I just can't find myself caring about Hunter x Hunter anymore. JoJo's Bizarre Adventure has gone to the seinen demographic so it can't count anymore.
> 
> ...








Han Solo said:


> So let's try something new: A constructive discussion about high tier Shonen mangas with reasonable arguments. I tried to list most of the Shonens that have a high standing in these forums - at least from my point of view and hope I could list enough to cover most of the members opinions. So feel free to discuss which Shonens you like the most and why. Maybe we can get to page 3 without this turning into another OP vs. Bleach vs. Naruto thread


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## POSERMOBILE (Nov 6, 2009)

> reasonable arguments



Best of luck then


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## zuul (Nov 6, 2009)

For me the best is Slam Dunk.

I'm not too fond of shounen, to begin with, but this one really entertains me (I have a thing for sport manga, it seems).

The characters are very sympathetic. They can actually lose () and are not unsufferable Stu. The plot makes sense and it's understandable (LOL Oh Great)
The arts are .

I'm not a complete Otaku, so bear with my lamass and weak arguments.
I just love Slam Dunk the best, that's it.


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## Proxy (Nov 6, 2009)

Out of the current Shonens, HxH stands pretty high on my list, despite the hiatus. People complain about the art, yes, but when there's actually chapters to read, no one complains and it's usually worthwhile to read.

The characters aren't typical heroes and there's situations where the main character loses, not to mention random power boosts isn't the norm.


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## RivFader (Nov 6, 2009)

POSERMOBILE said:


> Best of luck then



Thanks. Damn, can some mod please change the poll, I wanted to create more answers but hit the "Submit" button instead 

I wanted to add:
YuYu Hakusho
Bastard!!
Hoshin Engi 
Black Jack
Konjiki no Gash Bell
Majin Tantei Nogami Neuro
Soul Eater
Rookies


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## JH24 (Nov 6, 2009)

Good thread  I only hope it will not become another battleground.



Anyway, for me, One Piece and Full Metal Alchemist are the best Shonen (from those I've read so far). Its hard to explain, but Í've been enjoying these two manga's the most lately. I guess its just a feeling. A good writer manages to capture the attention of his/her readers, makes sure that a reader looks forward to each new chapter with anticipation and displays good and balanced writing. 


Both One Piece and FMA have this for me, as if the writer knows exactly what the reader would like and enjoy. Naruto was great for me until after the Konoha invasion arc. It feels a bit empty since then to me, especially because after Pain, there doesn't seem to be any people around who can display even greater power and strength, at least not for a while. I think the series would still be more exciting if Pain was the final villain. It feels IMHO as if Naruto should have ended with the death of Pain/Nagato. 


As for Bleach, it had some good moments lately, but it has been feeling empty for me for some time.



In One Piece/FMA you can feel the writers enjoyment and enthusiasm with almost each chapter. 



This is just my personal opinion.  I haven't for example read Slam Dunk or Hunter x Hunter yet, I want to check them out soon.


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## Muah (Nov 6, 2009)

Shonen is a pathetic catergory but one piece is everything good in a story to me.


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## Han Solo (Nov 6, 2009)

Hmmm, I think you should either chose a certain style of shounen - Sports, fighting, etc - or put it within a time period if you want to get any real consencus.

Becuase if you look at Fist of the Blue Sky and Steel Ball Run(JJBA part 7) that are seinen, and then Fist of the Noth Star and JoJo's Bizarre Adenture parts 1-6 which are shounen you will see that restrictions on things like gore have gotten tougher, and so things that would be shounen maybe 20 years ago would be seinen now.

It's just annoying for a debate.


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## HugeGuy (Nov 6, 2009)

zuul said:


> For me the best is Slam Dunk.
> 
> I'm not too fond of shounen, to begin with, but this one really entertains me (I have a thing for sport manga, it seems).
> 
> ...



I agree that Slam Dunk strangely has characters that are really hard to hate. Even Rukawa who's a self-centered, bishi, better-than-you and having an enormous army of fangirls (all ingredients for a despicable character) doesn't even come close of being someone that I hate. And I do tend to despise similar characters in other mangas.


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## RivFader (Nov 6, 2009)

Han Solo said:


> Hmmm, I think you should either chose a certain style of shounen - Sports, fighting, etc - or put it within a time period if you want to get any real consencus.
> 
> Becuase if you look at Fist of the Blue Sky and Steel Ball Run(JJBA part 7) that are seinen, and then Fist of the Noth Star and JoJo's Bizarre Adenture parts 1-6 which are shounen you will see that restrictions on things like gore have gotten tougher, and so things that would be shounen maybe 20 years ago would be seinen now.
> 
> It's just annoying for a debate.



Regarding JJBA and HnK: That's why I clarified that we should focus more in the SHonen parts of the story, as there was obviously a huge development in this section over the last 20 years.
And I wholeheartly believe that good writing isn't bound to a certain genre, if a writer is truly a genius his books will have the same standard in every genre. The same can be saif for Shonen; just look at Toriyama: Dragonball and Dr. Slump are both amazing mangas,y et they belong to different categories. Also I want to broaden the debate a bit by covering most of the tastes here on these forums.


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## zuul (Nov 6, 2009)

HugeGuy said:


> I agree that Slam Dunk strangely has characters that are really hard to hate. Even Rukawa who's a self-centered, bishi, better-than-you and having an enormous army of fangirls (all ingredients for a despicable character) doesn't even come close of being someone that I hate. And I do tend to despise similar characters in other mangas.




Rukawa is much more an autistic yet talented weirdo than our average angsty cool bishie. And the author doesn't hesitate to often ridicule him to counter the annoying cool.


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## Han Solo (Nov 6, 2009)

HugeGuy said:


> I agree that Slam Dunk strangely has characters that are really hard to hate. Even Rukawa who's a self-centered, bishi, better-than-you and having an enormous army of fangirls (all ingredients for a despicable character) doesn't even come close of being someone that I hate. And I do tend to despise similar characters in other mangas.



It's hard to hate them becuase Inoue is a master at having realistic and great character development. It just becomes easy to understand them.

Inoue also gave his characters flaws, including Rukawa, and pointed them out to the point that even the characters themselves recognize it. Very few manga's do that with their pretty bishi boys, so they either come off as gary stu's or ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".). Inoue does neither.

I mean, if you've read REAL, this is shown the best by far with Takahashi. Arrogant bastard and goes into a self destructive whiny douche, but as soon as he got developed I started to understand and like him.


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## HugeGuy (Nov 6, 2009)

zuul said:


> Rukawa is much more an autistic yet talented weirdo than our average angsty cool bishie. And the author doesn't hesitate to often ridicule him to counter the annoying cool.



Foxy Rukawa FTW. 

Although with all that said, I did get a satisfaction when he was thoroughly outplayed by Sawakita. I had always favour Sendoh over a lot of other players not only due to his quirky nature but also he's one of the few that can beat Rukawa to a stalemate. However what happened during the Sannoh match pretty much made Sawakita my favourite character _on the court_.

PS: I never understood why Rukawa hasn't been run over by a car given that he wears earphones while riding in the middle of the road. 

----

*agrees with Han Solo*


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## Han Solo (Nov 6, 2009)

zuul said:


> Rukawa is much more an autistic yet talented weirdo than our average angsty cool bishie. And the author doesn't hesitate to often ridicule him to counter the annoying cool.



Oh, not anything to do with the thread, but if you liked Slam Dunk, you should try REAL. 

It's got alot more emotional impact and realism, and shows the characters internal struggles to a stunning degree.

It basically does everything Slam Dunk does but better. The downside is that it's not such an easy read that can be read for some mindless fun, and the basketball aspect is also downplayed somewhat, but it's overall quality is higher.


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## zuul (Nov 6, 2009)

HugeGuy said:


> Foxy Rukawa FTW.
> 
> Although with all that said, I did get a satisfaction when he was thoroughly outplayed by Sawakita. I had always favour Sendoh over a lot of other players not only due to his quirky nature but also he's one of the few that can beat Rukawa to a stalemate. However what happened during the Sannoh match pretty much made Sawakita my favourite character _on the court_.
> 
> ...



You spoil me. 

I only began Slam Dunk recently, so I'm not there. 
But yes, good to know even Rukawa can be beaten.

That's one of the biggest problem I have with Initial D for example, Takumi never loses.




Han Solo said:


> Oh, not anything to do with the thread, but if you liked Slam Dunk, you should try REAL.
> 
> It's got alot more emotional impact and realism, and shows the characters internal struggles to a stunning degree.
> 
> It basically does everything Slam Dunk does but better. The downside is that it's not such an easy read that can be read for some mindless fun, and the basketball aspect is also downplayed somewhat, but it's overall quality is higher.



Thank you for the recommendation.
I will read it once I finish Slam Dunk.


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## Muah (Nov 6, 2009)

Hajime no ippo is great the perfect combination of day to day life along withsome kickass fighting.


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## Blade (Nov 6, 2009)

no order

one piece
fma
gto
db
saint seiya
jjba
burichi
slam dunk
d gray man


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## HugeGuy (Nov 6, 2009)

zuul said:


> You spoil me.
> 
> I only began Slam Dunk recently, so I'm not there.
> But yes, good to know even Rukawa can be beaten.
> ...



Oh fuck, sorry man. I never thought you're new to it. It's a pretty old series after all. Once again, my deepest apologies.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Nov 6, 2009)

Hajime no ippo


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## SAFFF (Nov 6, 2009)

i was torn between HXH and FMA but i think i made the right choice.


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## RivFader (Nov 6, 2009)

Supreme Alchemist Fan said:


> i was torn between HXH and FMA but i think i made the right choice.



Multiple choices are allowed, you know 

Anyway, voted One Piece (for obvious reasons stated over 100x times in the OP avenue), FMA (for the well-told and nearly plot hole free story who doesn't stray from it's path and made me cry more than once), JoJo's Bizarre Adventure (for some of the most epic fights ever made and a truly epic story), GTO (for a well-written main character and great emotional impact) and another manga (Deadman Wonderland, I love this manga yet it isn't fit to be in the poll).


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## Higawa (Nov 6, 2009)

Voted for OP, FMA and DB

I couldnt live without these


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## Gaawa-chan (Nov 6, 2009)

*Death Note or Liar Game.*

Bow before the awesomeness.

Death Note, Naruto, and D. Gray-Man should be on that list, btw.

I voted for FMA on the list as it's a great overall manga, but DN and LG are far better.


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## Ralphy♥ (Nov 6, 2009)

_Gintama!!!_​_............Closely followed by One Piece_​


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## Gnome (Nov 6, 2009)

is Death Note shounen?

anyway i went with HxH, OP, and FMA to be fair i haven't read everything on that list.


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## Ƶero (Nov 6, 2009)

Dragonball <3

Some top notch series on the list but dragonball wins me over everytime.


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## Han Solo (Nov 6, 2009)

I voted for Slam Dunk, Dr. Slump, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure and other which is for Black Jack and Ashita no Joe.

Slam Dunk for being extremely entertaining with some of th best character development and emotional impact without it feeling like it's anything more than some mindless fun.

Dr. Slump for being Toriyama's best work, and the one that shows off his ability as a gag mangaka the best. Hilarious manga.

JoJo's Bizarre Adventure for having one the, if not the, best thought out and well desinged power sets ever in shounen. Nen only really comes close. Then add in great villains in Kira and Dio Brando, and great protagonists like Joesph, Jolyne and Josuke and you have an all time classic.

Black Jack is probably the best adventerous feeling manga that is actually a somewhat light read. It's kind of dark, but is also very insperational, and Tezuka having knowledge as a professional physician juat made it that much better.

Ashita no Joe is perhaps the best pure fighting manga around in that it is better than Hajime no Ippo, even before the quality declined. Very emotional and insperational to the human spirit, while also having realistic and believable development, which is very hard to pull off.


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## p-lou (Nov 6, 2009)

Han Solo said:


> Tezuka having knowledge as a professional physician juat made it that much better.



black jack has cured tuberculosis 

with surgery


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## Gnome (Nov 6, 2009)

ah damn, i should have voted others i forgot about D grayman


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## The Imp (Nov 6, 2009)

Slam Dunk has always been my favourite shounen.


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## Han Solo (Nov 6, 2009)

p-lou said:


> black jack has cured tuberculosis
> 
> with surgery



He also operates in complete darkness.

What a baller.

But no, I wasn't talking about the realism, just the little things about medicine he throws in makes it more interesting.


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## Dream Brother (Nov 6, 2009)

My personal favourite is _Hajime no Ippo_, although recently the quality of the manga has unfortunately taken a nosedive. 

Still need to check out _One Piece_.


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## The Doctor (Nov 6, 2009)

Saint Seiya

Hokuto no Ken

One Piece

Gash Bell

Majin Tantei Nougami Neuro

Houshin Engi

Rookies

their gud bcuz i enjoy reading dem


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## Gnome (Nov 6, 2009)

i stopped around half way through HnI, the manga didn't seem to be going anywhere, it seemed as if Ippo was repeatedly thrown into matches with fodder that didn't matter.


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## p-lou (Nov 6, 2009)

lol

i kinda got what you meant.  obviously realism doesn't matter.  if it did there would be no way you could read a chapter with pinoko in it.


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## Han Solo (Nov 6, 2009)

I feel kind of bad about leaving Rookies, Houshin Engi and Hokuto no Ken out of my list to be honest, but whatever.


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## MdB (Nov 6, 2009)

I still need to read Houshin Engi. But I swear, those ridiculous shoes....


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## HugeGuy (Nov 6, 2009)

MdB said:


> I still need to read Houshin Engi. But I swear, those ridiculous shoes....



At least shoes are not bishies. You'll live.


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## p-lou (Nov 6, 2009)

The Doctor said:


> Saint Seiya
> 
> Hokuto no Ken
> 
> ...



gay list -12 stars


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## seastone (Nov 6, 2009)

I am probably not as experienced as most of you guys in manga but how does case closed/detective conan measure up in terms of Shonen quality?


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## Ladd (Nov 6, 2009)

For me it's GTO by a fair margin. Why? It's just such a pleasure to read; the volumes are consistently amazing and enjoyable, the art is quality, and the characters and their interactions never cease to entertain.

More importantly though:

*Spoiler*: __ 





The motherfucking suplex.​


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## HugeGuy (Nov 6, 2009)

MaskedMenace said:


> I am probably not as experienced as most of you guys in manga but how does case closed/detective conan measure up in terms of Shonen quality?



I dunno. I gave up on it years ago because the evil organization sticks around worse than Aizen or Naraku. People should really avoid the main cast cause everywhere they went, people die.


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## The Doctor (Nov 6, 2009)

p-lou said:


> gay list -12 stars


p-looser joke, etc.

and speaking of houshin engi

has nuzzie ever finished reading it?


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## p-lou (Nov 6, 2009)

now that's a silly question and you know it


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## The Doctor (Nov 6, 2009)

that new zeland cunt         .


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## MdB (Nov 6, 2009)

Shit taste.


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## p-lou (Nov 6, 2009)

lol

i just noticed you typed p-looser instead of p-loser

lol


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## HugeGuy (Nov 6, 2009)

MdB said:


> Shit taste.



I googled "shit taste manga" and this is what I got. Looks pretty awesome.


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## RivFader (Nov 6, 2009)

Seiko said:


> Naruto and Bleach.





MdB said:


> Shit taste.



- Give arguments.
- Avoid bashing.


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## seastone (Nov 6, 2009)

HugeGuy said:


> I dunno. I gave up on it years ago because the evil organization sticks around worse than Aizen or Naraku. People should really avoid the main cast cause everywhere they went, people die.





RivFader said:


> It's still around?
> I dropped it about 5 years ago....



Reading these comments make feel strange for sticking to the series for years. About how far did you guys read? To be honest I am impressed of the mangaka's ability to come up with so many cases, which is why I read it to this day and never dropped it. 

However following the series is too taxing for various reasons so I guess that is its major flaw. So it might as well not be in this thread, pity I thought it was a great series. Considering it is a shonen that does not focus on fighting.


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## Han Solo (Nov 6, 2009)

Seiko said:


> Naruto and Bleach.





engulfed in darkness


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## AeroNin (Nov 6, 2009)

Seiko said:


> Naruto and Bleach.



darknesssssssssssss

darknessssssssssssss

darknesssssssssssssssssssssshiiiiiiiiitttttttttttttt


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## MdB (Nov 6, 2009)

RivFader said:


> - Give arguments.
> - Avoid bashing.



Like I am going to give arguments in order to mock Seiko.


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## HugeGuy (Nov 6, 2009)

MaskedMenace said:


> Reading these comments make feel strange for sticking to the series for years. About how far did you guys read? To be honest I am impressed of the mangaka's ability to come up with so many cases, which is why I read it to this day and never dropped it.
> 
> However following the series is too taxing for various reasons so I guess that is its major flaw. So it might as well not be in this thread, pity I thought it was a great series. Considering it is a shonen that does not focus on fighting.



I can't remember how far I read. Maybe 30 volumes? I think by then it was their 2nd or 3rd unsuccessful attempt at tracking the organization.

I have to compliment on the complexity of the cases. I remember there was one case where it required 3 pawn pieces of chess balanced upside down by a telephone book. That blew off my suspension of disbelief and I went to try it but it worked lol.

Despite that, after a while the cases tend to get repetitive. Example, there's alot of cases focusing on murders in locked rooms etc...


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## Vandal Savage (Nov 6, 2009)

I'll choose my picks after some more thought.



MaskedMenace said:


> I am probably not as experienced as most of you guys in manga but how does case closed/detective conan measure up in terms of Shonen quality?



Filler-ridden, constantly re-used plot devices, and a static main cast that hardly develops at all since you meet them.

The plot involving the black org shows up rarely throughout the hundreds of chapters.

I'm at 596/712 scanned chapters so far but I doubt much has changed in those next 100 or so chapters.

Cases involving Kaitou Kid, Heiji, and the Black Org are the only ones really worth reading. Even if the others are well written it gets entirely too monotonous along the way. 700 chapters and counting which probably should have ended in 200-300.


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## The Doctor (Nov 6, 2009)

p-lou said:


> lol
> 
> i just noticed you typed p-looser instead of p-loser
> 
> lol


blahblahblahialwaysmakethisfuckingtypogodammitblahblahblah


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## RivFader (Nov 6, 2009)

Han Solo said:


> engulfed in darkness





AeroNin said:


> darknesssssssssssss
> 
> darknessssssssssssss
> 
> darknesssssssssssssssssssssshiiiiiiiiitttttttttttttt



The darkness can be pretty funny, but let's be fair 



MdB said:


> Like I am going to give arguments in order to mock Seiko.



Yes, you have :ho



HugeGuy said:


> I can't remember how far I read. Maybe 30 volumes? I think by then it was their 2nd or 3rd unsuccessful attempt at tracking the organization.
> 
> I have to compliment on the complexity of the cases. I remember there was one case where it required 3 pawn pieces of chess balanced upside down by a telephone book. That blew off my suspension of disbelief and I went to try it but it worked lol.
> 
> Despite that, after a while the cases tend to get repetitive. Example, there's alot of cases focusing on murders in locked rooms etc...



So the plot is still static, guess it was the right choice to skip after 15 volumes or so...



HugeGuy said:


> I googled "shit taste manga" and this is what I got. Looks pretty awesome.



I'm interested in this manga


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## Yak (Nov 6, 2009)

HugeGuy said:


> I googled "shit taste manga" and this is what I got. Looks pretty awesome.



From the drawing style it strongly reminds me of "*Tough*", another great fighting manga that I can recomment although I believe it fits more into the seinen category rather than shounen. On that regard, while also rankes as seinen but with a style much more appealing to a younger audience as well, I advice martial arts fans to read *Karate Shoukoushi Kohinata Minoru*. It shits over Hajime no Ippo in nearly every regard, be that storyline, art and realism.

As for great shounen, I rank *FMA* very highly overall for the art appeals, the storyline is well worked out and has just the right pacing, the characters are nicely fleshed-out and very realistic in their reaction and actions and the way emotions are portrayed in general. Not to mention that the concept of Alchemy and the Homunculi are just pretty cool and there are lots of likeable characters there.

Other shounen mangas I currenlty rank very high are *Kongou Banchou* simply because the idea that a bunch of dudes fight for restructuring the government of Japan is awesome and the manga just radiates all kinds of manliness. It has cool art and while there are lots of typical shounen cliches in it, it somehow never feels boring and just gets more epic and whackier by the chapter. Kind of feels a bit like Toriko with a dose of JJBA but has nothing to do with either of them.

Another manga also up at the top is *Embalming* although there are perhaps only five readers of it here on NF and I'm perhaps the most rabid of them. Anyone who enjoyed Nobuhiro Watsuki's *Rurouni Kenshin*(which I can only advice everyone to read as well), and would enjoy something of similar complexity, only perhaps a bit darker and with more fantasy influences is just right in checking out Embalming. Its basically the story about how a secret organisation created a bunch of Frankenstein monsters and several characters whose fates are tied with each other are bound to meet at some point (some in a conflicting manner) and clear up some mysteries. Current arc is playing in London during the time of Jack the Ripper and it just is all kinds of awesome. Art is great, story is great, characters are badass and have the typical amazing shounen feats. Worth a read and not nearly as blunt and boring as same old Naruto, Bleach or Fairy Tail. 

Another good read is *Psyren*, which really shaped up nicely since the last twenty or so chapters. It starts out a bit bland and slow but then quickly picks up and presents a concept with lots of potential - to simplify it, its about time travel and changing a post-apocalyptic future back into something where humans still can live and don't have to fear to be eaten by monsters or getting sick.

The characters need perhaps a bit more development but as I said, this is just really kicking lose and quickly picking up in every regard, be that storyline, character development or generally climbing the powerladder. The main concept of this manga is the development of all kinds of Psy-techniques which are divided in several categories or disciplines and all have different kinds of effect on the body of the user. Those can range from teleportation to physically enhancing body functions to elemental manipulation or telekinesis, etc. Definitely worth a try.


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## Perseverance (Nov 6, 2009)

This vote result isn't suprising ^_^


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## MdB (Nov 6, 2009)

Toriko is the best


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## Gnome (Nov 6, 2009)

im surprised, HxH doesn't have as many votes as i thought it should.


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## Han Solo (Nov 6, 2009)

Gnome on Fire said:


> im surprised, HxH doesn't have as many votes as i thought it should.



Becuase everbody is finally tired with Togashi being such a lazy bastard.


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## seastone (Nov 6, 2009)

HugeGuy said:


> I can't remember how far I read. Maybe 30 volumes? I think by then it was their 2nd or 3rd unsuccessful attempt at tracking the organization.
> 
> I have to compliment on the complexity of the cases. I remember there was one case where it required 3 pawn pieces of chess balanced upside down by a telephone book. That blew off my suspension of disbelief and I went to try it but it worked lol.
> 
> Despite that, after a while the cases tend to get repetitive. Example, there's alot of cases focusing on murders in locked rooms etc...



I see around 30 volumes. About halfway from the current chapters. 

Indeed the cases are pretty good. Which is why I enjoy them quite a lot. Well the cases that get repetitive is more due to that they have some similarities. I mean there are only so many ways to murder. Doesn't change the fact I enjoy them quite a bit. 

The plot maybe be slow but if you enjoy the cases in general it is pretty decent series.

I am going to stop now, anyway thanks to those who told me their opinion.


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## Gnome (Nov 6, 2009)

Han Solo said:


> Becuase everbody is finally tired with Togashi being such a lazy bastard.



just because it's on hiatus doesn't make it a worse manga though, although i can understand why people would be tired of Togashi's crap.


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## MdB (Nov 6, 2009)

Gnome on Fire said:


> im surprised, HxH doesn't have as many votes as i thought it should.



Waiting months only to have a very disappointing batch of chapters does that kind of thing.


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## p-lou (Nov 6, 2009)

hunter x boring


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## Yak (Nov 6, 2009)

MdB said:


> Waiting months only to have a very disappointing batch of chapters does that kind of thing.



This. On top of that, if the art is also sloppish enough to pass for the doodles of an eight year old pre-schooler you just feel kinda punked. At some point you just say 'screw this'. Its not like there ain't enough other great shows out there.


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## Black Leg Sanji (Nov 6, 2009)

I have reached complete apathy for HxH myself


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## POSERMOBILE (Nov 6, 2009)

I am fond of this man named *Adachi Mitsuru* and his works like _Touch _and _Cross Game_

Funny guy and his stories are always enjoyable for all ages


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## RivFader (Nov 6, 2009)

Yak said:


> From the drawing style it strongly reminds me of "*Tough*", another great fighting manga that I can recomment although I believe it fits more into the seinen category rather than shounen. On that regard, while also rankes as seinen but with a style much more appealing to a younger audience as well, I advice martial arts fans to read *Karate Shoukoushi Kohinata Minoru*. It shits over Hajime no Ippo in nearly every regard, be that storyline, art and realism.
> 
> As for great shounen, I rank *FMA* very highly overall for the art appeals, the storyline is well worked out and has just the right pacing, the characters are nicely fleshed-out and very realistic in their reaction and actions and the way emotions are portrayed in general. Not to mention that the concept of Alchemy and the Homunculi are just pretty cool and there are lots of likeable characters there.
> 
> ...



Wow, what an awesome read. thanks 
I wanted to start Embalming a long time ago, but never did it after I heard the scans were not only slow, but very LQ as well. I'll take a look after your post, though.

And I agree, Psyren is still not WSJ top-tier, but it's shaping up to become one of the mayor mangas after one of the big three ends. The premise is great, too.


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## Han Solo (Nov 6, 2009)

Really, unless Togashi actually restarts it with better art and storytelling like he did prior to the Ant arc, and releases chapters at a constant rate I just can't care for Hunter x Hunter anymore.

I'm sick of Togashi and his shit.


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## p-lou (Nov 6, 2009)

POSERMOBILE said:


> I am fond of this man named *Adachi Mitsuru* and his works like _Touch _and _Cross Game_
> 
> Funny guy and his stories are always enjoyable for all ages


----------



## Yak (Nov 6, 2009)

Shame is, I have to say the same about Berserk. I don't know exactly when it happened but after having to go through several chapters (after a long wait in between each, mind you) where there was not even one fucking text bubble, I've kinda had it with the manga. Can't bother to care for it anymore, despite the pretty art. To me that's simply not all. I don't want a story only to be told in pretty pictures, at least not in Berserk where that concept only works for so long.

We are not talking about *Blame!!* here, which was basically fine with little to no text at all. It had gigantic empty and terrifying ruins of gigastructures telling the bleak storyline and it worked out just perfectly (anyone who has not looked into Blame!! yet, get your ass moving, its a must-read. Or must-look, even.)


----------



## POSERMOBILE (Nov 6, 2009)

God, his self-insertion parts are the best. 

I also like when he referenced _Urusei Yatsura_ in Touch.


----------



## MdB (Nov 6, 2009)

Who doesn't love overly complicated explanations on every little detail.


----------



## Han Solo (Nov 6, 2009)

Yak said:


> Shame is, I have to say the same about Berserk. I don't know exactly when it happened but after having to go through several chapters (after a long wait in between each, mind you) where there was not even one fucking text bubble, I've kinda had it with the manga. Can't bother to care for it anymore, despite the pretty art. To me that's simply not all. I don't want a story only to be told in pretty pictures, at least not in Berserk where that concept only works for so long.



Yeah, Miura is pissing me off too.

Aldric was saying the recent stuff from Hagiwara was the same aswell.

When does Bastard! start to degrade?


----------



## RivFader (Nov 6, 2009)

Yak said:


> Shame is, I have to say the same about Berserk. I don't know exactly when it happened but after having to go through several chapters (after a long wait in between each, mind you) where there was not even one fucking text bubble, I've kinda had it with the manga. Can't bother to care for it anymore, despite the pretty art. To me that's simply not all. I don't want a story only to be told in pretty pictures, at least not in Berserk where that concept only works for so long.
> 
> We are not talking about *Blame!!* here, which was basically fine with little to no text at all. It had gigantic empty and terrifying ruins of gigastructures telling the bleak storyline and it worked out just perfectly (anyone who has not looked into Blame!! yet, get your ass moving, its a must-read. Or must-look, even.)



Nihei is really an awesome mangaka, BLAME!! and NOiSE! are still the eptinome for visual storytelling for me. He's the only mangaka I know that can capture a depressing, isolating, and overall amazing concepted world in only a few shots were a lone wanderer is standing in a ruined floor. He's beyond awesome.


----------



## Han Solo (Nov 6, 2009)

Bret Maverick said:


> ah, that's a shame



Yeah, and whoever did it for free have stopped doing it aswell.

And Rookies is still not fully scnalated.

So fucking annoying.


----------



## Han Solo (Nov 6, 2009)

POSERMOBILE said:


> I am fond of this man named *Adachi Mitsuru* and his works like _Touch _and _Cross Game_
> 
> Funny guy and his stories are always enjoyable for all ages



Lord Gaynome loves himself some Touch.

I've read some of Touch, but have yet to finish it.

I won't for a while either. Still read barely anything of Witches.


----------



## Yak (Nov 6, 2009)

Han Solo said:


> Yeah, Miura is pissing me off too.
> 
> Aldric was saying the recent stuff from Hagiwara was the same aswell.
> 
> When does Bastard! start to degrade?



When does it start?

I'd say it already has started. In my opinion the manga had hit its peak overall around the finals of the Anthrax-arc. Don't get me wrong, when the stuff with Hell and Satan afterwards started, it was all cool and I still love this manga because its special to me (you know, just like fucking your first woman will always be special in one way or another, Bastard!! was my first ever) but when the Uriel fight stretched over nearly five volumes over a course of, what, five years? Six years? Or longer?

Shit kinda hit the fan right there. I don't know what's up with Hagi right now and I don't really care. Bastard!! is still one of the best mangas ever made in history and will surely remain so but that doesn't mean it is flawless. Nor is it one of my current top priorities. I will continue to read when.... or, IF... it ever picks up again. The Uriel fight at least was finished now. It would be the perfect opportunity to finally move the plot forward again.


----------



## Han Solo (Nov 6, 2009)

Yak said:


> When does it start?
> 
> I'd say it already has started. In my opinion the manga had hit its peak overall around the finals of the Anthrax-arc. Don't get me wrong, when the stuff with Hell and Satan afterwards started, it was all cool and I still love this manga because its special to me (you know, just like fucking your first woman will always be special in one way or another, Bastard!! was my first ever) but when the Uriel fight stretched over nearly five volumes over a course of, what, five years? Six years? Or longer?
> 
> Shit kinda hit the fan right there. I don't know what's up with Hagi right now and I don't really care. Bastard!! is still one of the best mangas ever made in history and will surely remain so but that doesn't mean it is flawless. Nor is it one of my current top priorities. I will continue to read when.... or, IF... it ever picks up again. The Uriel fight at least was finished now. It would be the perfect opportunity to finally move the plot forward again.



I haven't got that far.

When does the Uriel fight start?


----------



## Yak (Nov 6, 2009)

Han Solo said:


> I haven't got that far.
> 
> When does the Uriel fight start?



Volume 20 I think. Might already at the end of volume 19, not sure right now. Either way, that's 5 volumes just dealing with that battle. An epic one like few can compare, sure, but its still too fucking long especialyl when it stretches over several years. I went through puberty during that time. FUCK!


----------



## p-lou (Nov 6, 2009)

Han Solo said:


> Lord Gaynome loves himself some Touch.
> 
> I've read some of Touch, but have yet to finish it.
> 
> I won't for a while either. Still read barely anything of Witches.



haha i remember when that little ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) thought i was joking when i told him he would like it

he will always be yoshida


----------



## POSERMOBILE (Nov 6, 2009)

Han Solo said:


> Lord Gaynome loves himself some Touch.
> 
> I've read some of Touch, but have yet to finish it.
> 
> I won't for a while either. Still read barely anything of Witches.



I finished Touch in a few hours.

I guess it clicked with me that well.


----------



## p-lou (Nov 6, 2009)

but touch is 26 volumes

a few hours is just

too fast


----------



## Han Solo (Nov 6, 2009)

Yak said:


> Volume 20 I think. Might already at the end of volume 19, not sure right now. Either way, that's 5 volumes just dealing with that battle. An epic one like few can compare, sure, but its still too fucking long especialyl when it stretches over several years. I went through puberty during that time. FUCK!



I just got Volume 17 a while ago.

Lars is my perhaps favorite character. Gara and Abigail are great aswell too.


----------



## MdB (Nov 6, 2009)




----------



## POSERMOBILE (Nov 6, 2009)

p-lou said:


> but touch is 26 volumes
> 
> a few hours is just
> 
> too fast



I'm a fast reader 

nothing's too fast for me


----------



## p-lou (Nov 6, 2009)

the person who should wait for people to grow a little more is the author of toriko

wned:


----------



## Han Solo (Nov 6, 2009)

Last image doesen't work.


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## MdB (Nov 6, 2009)

p-lou said:


> the person who should wait for people to grow a little more is the author of toriko
> 
> wned:




p-gay
p-gay
p-gay
p-gay
p-gay
p-gay
p-gay
p-gay
p-gay
p-gay
p-gay
p-gay
p-gay
p-gay
p-gay
p-gay
p-gay
p-gay
p-gay
p-gay
p-gay
p-gay
p-gay


----------



## p-lou (Nov 6, 2009)

POSERMOBILE said:


> I'm a fast reader
> 
> nothing's too fast for me



i know i'm slow leave me alone :luigicry:


----------



## Yak (Nov 6, 2009)

Han Solo said:


> I just got Volume 17 a while ago.
> 
> Lars is my perhaps favorite character. Gara and Abigail are great aswell too.



Volume 17 already? Wow, VIZ releases really picked up, it seems. Oh well, you are right before the second timeskip, then.


----------



## POSERMOBILE (Nov 6, 2009)

p-lou said:


> i know i'm slow leave me alone :luigicry:



Need time to check out the ear sizes for anything abnormal before going to the next page


----------



## Abigail (Nov 6, 2009)

Yak said:


> Volume 17 already? Wow, VIZ releases really picked up, it seems. Oh well, you are right before the second timeskip, then.



Actually I think they released volume 19 a while ago with volume 20 set for early 2010.


----------



## RivFader (Nov 6, 2009)

Yak said:


> Volume 17 already? Wow, VIZ releases really picked up, it seems. Oh well, you are right before the second timeskip, then.



How's the situation for Bastard!! scans?


----------



## Han Solo (Nov 6, 2009)

RivFader said:


> How's the situation for Bastard!! scans?



The scans? I don't know, but they are behind the Viz volumes, which is why I stopped bothering with them.


----------



## p-lou (Nov 6, 2009)

aren't the german and french versions way ahead of the english ones?


----------



## Yak (Nov 6, 2009)

RivFader said:


> The shipping would ruin me



Dude, aren't you German? Like , you know, ME? Why not fucking order it over a bookstore, costs you 6,50 bucks. 

@plou: Yarr, we've hit 25, which is what is the most recent volume.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Nov 6, 2009)

@Rivfader: You are a german and yet you didnt know about Bastard! being aviaible in your country upto vol 25?

:taichou


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Nov 6, 2009)

I lol'd Rivfader: Really, German and french people should have no problem for Bastard!!.


----------



## RivFader (Nov 6, 2009)

Yak said:


> Dude, aren't you German? Like , you know, ME? Why not fucking order it over a bookstore, costs you 6,50 bucks.
> 
> @plou: Yarr, we've hit 25, which is what is the most recent volume.





Black Leg Sanji said:


> @Rivfader: You are a german and yet you didnt know about Bastard! being aviaible in your country upto vol 25?
> 
> :taichou





Tranquil Fury said:


> I lol'd Rivfader: Really, German and french people should have no problem for Bastard!!.




I feel ashamed for considering Thomas Pynchon over Bastard!! 
I think I'll give myself some nice christmas presents....


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Nov 6, 2009)

Well if its an money issue then there is not much that can be done

I am just surprised that you didnt know about the aviability


----------



## RivFader (Nov 6, 2009)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> Well if its an money issue then there is not much that can be done
> 
> I am just surprised that you didnt know about the aviability



Like I said, I wasn't looking for in in depth.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Nov 6, 2009)

Oh alright


----------



## Yak (Nov 6, 2009)

RivFader said:


> Like I said, I wasn't looking for in ind epth.



Well, now you know 

Although, you will have trouble finding earlier volumes, I don't think they are published anymore. You'd have to try ebay, especially for the first five or so.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Nov 6, 2009)

You would have to go VIZ for the earlier ones indeed

I got 13-18 from thebookdepository.uk

Quite cheap and decent shipping rate


----------



## RivFader (Nov 6, 2009)

Yak said:


> Well, now you know
> 
> Although, you will have trouble finding earlier volumes, I don't think they are published anymore. You'd have to try ebay, especially for the first five or so.





Black Leg Sanji said:


> You would have to go VIZ for the earlier ones indeed
> 
> I got 13-18 from thebookdepository.uk
> 
> Quite cheap and decent shipping rate



Thanks for the information. Berserk, GTO, FMA, OP, Bastard!!...I have to buy a lotof manga


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Nov 6, 2009)

Thebookdepository actually got Berserk aswell (lol)

All the way upto volume 28-30 ish i think


----------



## ArtieBoy (Nov 6, 2009)

There should be a weekly Shonen discussion. 
like chapter of the week. 
with that being said I would give  Bakuman chapter of the week. 
One Piece was good and it was a little depressing seeing 
*Spoiler*: __ 



 White Beard In the state he is in



but i gotta give it to bakuman in over all enjoyment


----------



## Han Solo (Nov 6, 2009)

You doing it wrong.


----------



## ArtieBoy (Nov 6, 2009)

Han Solo said:


> You doing it wrong.



Yep 
explain pleas how to do it right


----------



## Eldritch (Nov 6, 2009)

bakuman the bible for white mangaka wannabes


----------



## ArtieBoy (Nov 6, 2009)

Eldritch Gall said:


> bakuman the bible for white mangaka wannabes



Lol black 2
LMAO my friend was like you should come up with a story and he would draw. 
and i was like "WTF??? No"


----------



## abcd (Nov 6, 2009)

OK i havent read this thread fully ... I will do that tomorrow ...

Will just put in my thoughts

Among the shonen I have read , 

The one that made me most emotional is FMA ... The bio alchemist guy turning his kid and the dog into a chimera affected me a lot .... I love it and read the manga 90 odd chapters in one day .... that said ,I found it heavy and made me think a lot ....

The manga that is most fun to read for me is OP ... Its a light manga with very good plot and I love the detail ..... There are a lot of serious stuff , drama but its done well with a mix of comedy .... and the heroism shown is un to watch/read... So I like it as a nice adventure and can read it multiple times

The manga that caught my attention a lot recently is Bakuman -- I never thought a story about becoming a mangaka would be so interesting and fun .... The plot twists are also unexpected which is very hard in a manga dealing with real life since the boundaries are strong ... 

I like the Black organisation arcs in Detective conan - They are really interesting and predicting them/understanding it from each charachters point of view is awesome .... Other arcs are OK ....

When I am tired I like watching gintama ... It can entertain me every single time , I like the charachters breaking the 4th wall so often ...

HXH is an awesom manga ... but i dont want to talk about it >_< ...... I want to see a new arc and no more hiatus before i comment on it 

Drabon ball&z are classics , cant comment on those

I have read/watched many other series but these stand out .... that said I havent watches Slam dunk,bastard,monster, cowboy bepop , ninja scroll and some other good ones i guess... will read the thread later and find out myself , It would be nice If anyone can understand my tastes and suggest a good manga too


----------



## Wuzzman (Nov 6, 2009)

One piece even being on the list invites lols might as well put fairy tale, bleach and naruto on their to keep the troll meter high. Any who a serious answer would be between hunterxhunter, fma, and any of the classics.


----------



## Superstars (Nov 6, 2009)

One Piece is nowhere near the best shonen. Reading this boring war should tell you that. 

And it's obvious the classics are the best shounen Dragonball, Yugioh, Yu Yu, Rourouni Kenshin!


----------



## Han Solo (Nov 6, 2009)

Oh God, Superstars, Wuzzman and Seiko.

Thread already hit rock bottom.

Waiting for Sasuke to come and make it so it is so far down you can't even look up and see rock bottom anymore.

And then Raigen and Hamaru.


----------



## Han Solo (Nov 6, 2009)

Who else?

Oh yeah, I bet Blue comes aswell.

I'm waiting.


----------



## MdB (Nov 6, 2009)




----------



## Han Solo (Nov 6, 2009)




----------



## Gnome (Nov 6, 2009)

Han Solo said:


>



lol looks like WB is saying vote for OP to me


----------



## Ennoea (Nov 6, 2009)

I just don't see the DB hype, all nostalgia, the manga was mediocre at best. Yes it introduce many people to anime and manga but its not up there with the likes of the best.


----------



## MdB (Nov 6, 2009)

Han Solo said:


>



C'mon, even you should get what I'm implying.


----------



## Han Solo (Nov 6, 2009)

Ennoea said:


> I just don't see the DB hype, all nostalgia, the manga was mediocre at best. Yes it introduce many people to anime and manga but its not up there with the likes of the best.



Anime was shit.

Manga from start to Frieza arc was spectacular.

Good villains, good fights, but most of all, still had Toriyama's great gag's at their best, which is really what Toriyama is about, not all this shitass "lololol OVAAAAA 900000figifwe" crap.

The rest was pretty bad really.


----------



## Gnome (Nov 6, 2009)

Ennoea said:


> I just don't see the DB hype, all nostalgia, the manga was mediocre at best. Yes it introduce many people to anime and manga but its not up there with the likes of the best.



i agree, after freiza it was pretty much downhill from there


----------



## Han Solo (Nov 6, 2009)

MdB said:


> C'mon, even you should get what I'm implying.



What do you mean "even you".


----------



## MdB (Nov 6, 2009)

It's the motherfucking WHITEBEARDO


----------



## Wuzzman (Nov 6, 2009)

I nominate Veritas and Air Gear.


----------



## Han Solo (Nov 6, 2009)

Air Gear.

Are you serious?

A manga worse than Bleach.


----------



## the_notorious_Z.É. (Nov 6, 2009)

My favorite shonen of all time is probably Slam Dunk, i love that manga and i'm not even a basketball fan.


----------



## Sesha (Nov 6, 2009)

Wuzzman said:


> I nominate Veritas and Air Gear.



Here he goes again.


Superstars said:


> One Piece is nowhere near the best shonen. Reading this boring war should tell you that.
> 
> And it's obvious the classics are the best shounen Dragonball, Yu Yu and even *Rourouni Kenshin*!





the hell is a rourouni anyway

sounds like some italian cuisine or a crackpot medical condition from the 1800s


----------



## Bilaal (Nov 6, 2009)

One Piece-great cast of characters, huge interesting world, good storytelling, great art.

GTO - Eikichi Onizuka...nuff said

Hunter x Hunter - Good story and good characters that does no get boring.

Houshin Engi - The plot is interesting and the art is great. Plus, this manga has Dakki

Bakuman - It has a unique concept, and is in some aspects, educational

Beck - It's just entertaining 

JoJo's Bizarre Adventure - I'm only on volume 3 and I'm hooked. Dio Brando was great. If the manga stays this way, It may become my favourite

Soul Eater - Interestingly wierd manga with a good plot and great characters

Full Metal Alchemist - The plot may be one of the best in shounen

Eyeshield 21 - My first sports series and my favourite by far! 

Flame of Recca - Best ninja manga Recca>>>>>>>>Naruto

Fist of the North Star - Manly epic manga is manly epic manga


----------



## Graham Aker (Nov 6, 2009)

DB shot itself in the foot with Cell and Buu Saga's.
Togashi fucked YYH over with that crazy "lol I'm tired with this shit" ending.

It's impossible to find out what's the best shonen because people will always have different opinions. 



Sesha said:


> the hell is a rourouni anyway
> 
> sounds like some italian cuisine or a crackpot medical condition from the 1800s


Kenshin is a story about some ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) samurai assassin set during the dawn of Meiji Era who doesn't  want to kill people because he's too pussy.

 @ Kenshin being one of the best.


----------



## p-lou (Nov 6, 2009)

Sesha said:


> the hell is a rourouni anyway



i think it's japanese for giant ink splashes


----------



## Lord Genome (Nov 7, 2009)

I nominate Air Gear for worst manga


----------



## p-lou (Nov 7, 2009)

gay gnome the gay


----------



## Fran (Nov 7, 2009)

I'm really starting to get fond of Kekkaishi, which was surprisingly good. Wouldn't call it the best.
Claymore, if it's still classified as shounen, what with all the bewbs, guts and lolis 'n all.
Ippo always delivers, especially the comedy.

Hunter x Hunter delivers, about once every 2 years. ¬_¬


----------



## C. Hook (Nov 7, 2009)

Out of all of those, JJBA, FMA, and Slam Dunk are among my favorites, with One Piece and HxH coming out right below them. JJBA is just overall awesome, FMA has a great plot, and Slam Dunk has great characters. HxH has good plot and fight system, but its art is shitty (And yes, art does matter) and the hiatuses are disgusting. One Piece is great, but it is very generic at times and also has some of the worst fans.

Although I've found Dragonball fans just as bad as One Piece fans.



Han Solo said:


> Oh God, Superstars, Wuzzman and Seiko.
> 
> Thread already hit rock bottom.
> 
> ...



Oh God. Don't forget Jugger, Naruto19 (Oh wait, he was banned), and the eventual WHINE brigade.



Wuzzman said:


> I nominate Veritas and *Air Gear.*


----------



## shadowlords (Nov 7, 2009)

Ladd said:


> For me it's GTO by a fair margin. Why? It's just such a pleasure to read; the volumes are consistently amazing and enjoyable, the art is quality, and the characters and their interactions never cease to entertain.
> 
> More importantly though:
> 
> ...



hmmm Link removed

Link removed

Looks like some mangakas agree with your reasoning! Everyone learn from GTO!


----------



## Hodo Astartes (Nov 7, 2009)

Coherent Plot? Character development? Only sissies ask for what the fuck is going on. Real men read Excel Saga. (Does that even qualify as shounen?)

Oh, and was Yakitate Japan even mentioned? Don't tell me there is a better Manga about bread. That makes it at least the best of it's class. 

Well, at topic: OP is to me the greatest when talking about weekly while FMA rules hard among mothlies. 

Anything ruling as hard as those two simply isn't shounen anymore.


----------



## Kobe (Nov 7, 2009)

* SLAM DUNK FTW!  *


 


​


----------



## Yak (Nov 7, 2009)

Wow, gone a few hours and the thread already took a huge nosedive. So much for a bit of intelligent and constructive discussion. Exhausted after 8 pages

Poor NF


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Nov 7, 2009)

Just my list of fav Shonen, in no order:
-DB
-YYH
-Slam Dunk
-Flame of Recca
-Saint Seiya


----------



## RivFader (Nov 7, 2009)

Han Solo said:


> Oh God, Superstars, Wuzzman and Seiko.
> 
> Thread already hit rock bottom.
> 
> ...





Yak said:


> Wow, gone a few hours and the thread already took a huge nosedive. So much for a bit of intelligent and constructive discussion. Exhausted after 8 pages
> 
> Poor NF



It was worth a try, and over 160 posts is quite a lot. I guess it could be called a little success.



Hodo Astartes said:


> Coherent Plot? Character development? Only sissies ask for what the fuck is going on. Real men read Excel Saga. (Does that even qualify as shounen?)
> 
> Oh, and was Yakitate Japan even mentioned? Don't tell me there is a better Manga about bread. That makes it at least the best of it's class.
> 
> ...



Yakitate!! Japan is an amazing Shonen, however it's nearly not as popular as the rest. But that's what the _Other_ option is for


----------



## migukuni (Nov 7, 2009)

Katekyo hitman reborn - why is it not in the poll?
Onepiece
Mahou Sensei Negima


----------



## RivFader (Nov 7, 2009)

migukuni said:


> Katekyo hitman reborn - why is it not in the poll?
> Onepiece
> Mahou Sensei Negima



Well, there's still the "Other" option for you, and I didn't include KHR because his reputation in these forums isn't as good as most of the ones in the poll. I've yet to read over great parts of the series, though. Why don't you elaborate on why should KHR mentioned in this poll?


----------



## migukuni (Nov 7, 2009)

aside from it having 17k votes and onepiece had 15k votes from the last japan poll, hmmm... i have a lot in my mind, but basically because:

intro arc: a gag manga
mukuro arc: battle manga -generic part wherein the enemy becomes one of the strongest 
*Spoiler*: __ 



teammate


Varia arc: battle manga
Future arc: for people who likes futuristic manga and for people who likes shocking plot that isnt linear and basically a battle manga too

its plot and twist are totally different from other manga's wherein the hero just gets random power ups by screeching out or getting premonitions and stuff


----------



## RivFader (Nov 7, 2009)

migukuni said:


> aside from it having 17k votes and onepiece had 15k votes from the last japan poll, hmmm...



Popularity isn't an indicator for quality per se.



migukuni said:


> i have a lot in my mind, but basically because:
> 
> intro arc: a gag manga
> mukuro arc: battle manga -generic part wherein the enemy becomes one of the strongest
> ...



Well, so far it sounds like a pretty generic Shonen to me - the terms "shocking plot that isn't linear" and "enemy becomes the strongest teammate" aren't very unique either. And DB already did the teammate part over 10 years ago.
How does the character get his main power-ups, through a 3 days/2 weeks training session everyone thought he wouldn't be able to do so? Or through more of Reborn's tricks? Sorry, I haven't read that much into the series, but for me it looks like quite the standard Shonen.


----------



## Kobe (Nov 7, 2009)

KHR isn't that special.


----------



## migukuni (Nov 7, 2009)

intro arc: is gag as gags go
mukuro arc was generic as i said
varia arc not so much
future arc isn't generic at all... i dont wanna say how they trained coz that will ruin the fun of reading it


----------



## RivFader (Nov 7, 2009)

migukuni said:


> intro arc: is gag as gags go
> mukuro arc was generic as i said
> varia arc not so much
> future arc isn't generic at all... i dont wanna say how they trained coz that will ruin the fun of reading it



Don't worry, spoilers won't hinder me to read a manga. Just tell us everything (you can use spoiler tags if you like to)


----------



## Wade (Nov 7, 2009)

The best sport shounen surely is Slam Dunk.


----------



## migukuni (Nov 7, 2009)

do you know that its hard to narrate KHR because early chapters that you think are useless are actually turning points all through out the manga? who would ever think that some random guy that is always mentioned in the first chapters, that we never saw, but know the name of is actually so strong in the future

who would ever think that the brat from the early chapters that was as scaredy cat as tsuna is actually so smart and such a big shot that would turn they're lives around, the thing i like in KHR is that the small simple things in the intro arc are all interconnected in the future arc -like somehow the author had thought about it 3-4 yrs before hand(although i doubt it)-


----------



## RivFader (Nov 7, 2009)

migukuni said:


> do you know that its hard to narrate KHR because early chapters that you think are useless are actually turning points all through out the manga? who would ever think that some random guy that is always mentioned in the first chapters, that we never saw, but know the name of is actually so strong in the future



A common plot device - see Coby from OP.



migukuni said:


> who would ever think that the brat from the early chapters that was as scaredy cat as tsuna is actually so smart and such a big shot that would turn they're lives around, the thing i like in KHR is that the small simple things in the intro arc are all interconnected in the future arc -like somehow the author had thought about it 3-4 yrs before hand(although i doubt it)-



Well, he's the protagonist so I would expect nothing less from him and that's quite generic. And other mangakas plan their whole manga before they start drawing - Oda for example: He already knows how everything will unfold and the connections he drew between single arcs like the Arlong and the Shabondy arc are amazing. The whole Arlong arc can be viewed in an entirely different light after reading through Shabondy and learning about the slavery methods of the WG. 
So in my opinion KHR isn't that special at all; I think we all should be able to look ratonally on our favourite mangas as they all have flaws.


----------



## skiboydoggy (Nov 7, 2009)

I would say Negima, but that would just be my inner fanboy talking. It's good but hardly the best shonen manga ever, especially with the clusterfuck that are the introduction and Library Island arcs.

I'm going to say Great Teacher Onizuka and Fullmetal Alchemist myself, unless Arakawa really screws up the last few chapters, which is entirely possible considering the unorthodox way the story seems to be heading. Of course, my shonen manga repertoire isn't that large. I'm more of an anime person for the most part.


----------



## Mnemosyne (Nov 7, 2009)

Saint Seiya is the best one as the opening says:

"Saint Seiya *shounen *wa minna."


----------



## Whimsy (Nov 7, 2009)

Good thread.

I'd put FMA above One Piece for consistency and variety. I also chose Hokuto no Ken, Dr Slump and JJBA, because they are awesome.

HnI was really good, but is being dragged out to buggery now. Takamura vs. Bryan Hawk is still one of my favourite Shonen fights though.


----------



## Zoidberg (Nov 7, 2009)

I picked JJBA. 

I've always wondered why the Hokuto No Ken art style in shonen waned.


----------



## RivFader (Nov 7, 2009)

Zoidberg said:


> I picked JJBA.
> 
> I've always wondered why the Hokuto No Ken art style in shonen waned.



Bishies sell more


----------



## Furious George (Nov 7, 2009)

One Piece for me. 

But to be fair I still haven't checked out this "Slam Dunk" that seems to be getting much acclaim.


----------



## the_notorious_Z.É. (Nov 7, 2009)

Zoidberg said:


> I've always wondered why the Hokuto No Ken art style in shonen waned.



Dragon Ball appeared and Toriyama stylized art took over the "world".


----------



## Quwrof Wrlccywrlir (Nov 7, 2009)

+1 vote for HxH  Reason? What reason?


----------



## Jugger (Nov 7, 2009)

Mahou sensei negima
History strongest diciple kenichi
Soul eater
Toriko
Samurai deeper kyo

none of these are on that list

Well best in this list would be GTO and saint seiya well i have only read lost canvas but it was totally awsome.

I just noticed that oda is genius he rapeat same pattern with slight difference and people are calling him god that patter is like in sanji arc and then arlong park. First get some new friend then go rescue friend. That how it is but in simple. That happened in water 7 and ernies lobby, Thirler bark and imper down marine hq. oda is like ac/dc. AC/DC does sama album again and again and still people like it and thinks its best of the best oda does same arc again and again and still people think he is best of the best.


----------



## MdB (Nov 7, 2009)

Nope, still not working


----------



## The Doctor (Nov 7, 2009)

KHR is for homos


----------



## MdB (Nov 7, 2009)

The Doctor said:


> KHR is for homos



It's also very bad.


----------



## Ennoea (Nov 7, 2009)

Slam Dunk is a great manga but the ending wasn't to my liking.


----------



## XMURADX (Nov 7, 2009)

Dammit...Didn't realize I can multi vote only after I voted. 

Anyway...

*One Piece* 
I love One Piece because it's very unique and original, and is the most consistent shonnen so far. I love most of the characters and the story just keeps expanding. Plus there is a lot of gar moments that it's hard to forget.

*Fullmetal Alchemist*
I've grown to like FMA after dropping it many times until it became one of my favorites recently while watching brotherhood. Great plot, and plot twists. I like most of the characters, my only complaint is the lack of different type of character designs. Cause I keep mistaking some characters cause they have the same facial design.

*Hokuto no Ken (Fist Of The North Star) *
This is an awesome series, it's very interesting and enjoyable...Currently watching it.
Main character is .	

*Saint Seiya *
I hate Bishonen characters that look like girls. So I don't think I'll ever read/watch it. 

*Slam Dunk* 
I loved Slam Dunk, but I've watched the anime only...Waiting for an OVA to be released. 
I started to like basketball after watching it. 'nuff said.  

*City Hunter* 
Didn't watch it. lol 0%...I don't think I'll read it.

*Dragonball * 
Ah...Dragonball. I know it's very popular and all, I'm trying to get into it but I just keep getting turned off for some reason. I still don't think I'll enjoy it more than One Piece.

*Dr. Slump*
Same like dragonball.

*Hunter X Hunter *
This series is awesome, too bad lazy Togashi doesn't want to finish it...This series have a lot of potential, amazing fights, awesome characters, great plot, and awesome anime adaption. 

*JoJo's Bizarre Adventure (Shonen parts of course) * 
This looks interesting. I'll check it out one day.	

*Hajime no Ippo *
I like HNI, but it's just too long. I'm watching the anime, and so far it's still great.

*Great Teacher Onizuka*
Awesome teacher is awesome.  
Great series, but I didn't get to finish it when I lost my data. didn't get a chance to re-download it ever since.


----------



## Fitzratrik (Nov 7, 2009)

One Piece 
Dropped about three times, before i eally got into it. General appeal is the characters, and the kickass female lead. It's pretty original in terms of plot, some things could be a bit tighter. It's funny though, hands down. 

Fullmetal Alchemist
You can't fucking put this series into words. This isn't fucking shonen, this is fucking like the best thing you'll ever come accross. It is the meaning of diverging from typical shonen, rather focusing on story than fighting. I'm man enough to admit this series shed a few tears.

Hokuto no Ken (Fist Of The North Star) 
Big buff protagonist beating the shit out of people? Hells yeah. A bit to classic for my liking. 

Saint Seiya 
This is pretty much just sailor moon, mixed with robots.  i dropped it after like two episodes after trying to make sense of what was going on. 

Slam Dunk 
Jesus christ. This manga was the epitome of sports shonen. Never mind your bullshit prince of Tennis, this is the standered of sports shonen, I have not read another as good as this one.  

City Hunter 
hm.....

Dragonball 
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh god, these guys exploded fuckign _planets_. win.

Dr. Slump
hm?

Hunter X Hunter 
To foreever and young for my taste.

JoJo's Bizarre Adventure (Shonen parts of course) 
I'm hopign we're not talking about _that_ singer....

Hajime no Ippo 
HNI, really had it's moments for me, but unlike Slam Dunk it dragged out too long. Some of the dragged out sequences shitted me. And Hajime was very :\ at the beginning.

Great Teacher Onizuka
Onizuka was like your manga tyler durdan


Others:

Code Geass.
While i'm not one for Mecha, the fhgting isn't to my style and the character design was to bishie for my liking, you can't deny how great this series was. Oh god the morality. It certainly drew a fine line to Nationalism.

Death Note
Fucking Awesome. Not to mention you had bitches following your every command left right and center.

I can't think right now may be back later


----------



## The Doctor (Nov 7, 2009)

XMURADX said:


> *Saint Seiya *
> I hate Bishonen characters that look like girls. So I don't think I'll ever read/watch it.


this is just episode g

original manga doesn't have that many bishies and even then, most characters are badass.


carrotdawg said:


> Saint Seiya
> This is pretty much just sailor moon, mixed with robots.  i dropped it after like two episodes after trying to make sense of what was going on.


jesus fucking christ


----------



## the_notorious_Z.É. (Nov 7, 2009)

XMURADX said:


> *Slam Dunk*
> I loved Slam Dunk, but I've watched the anime only...Waiting for an OVA to be released.
> I started to like basketball after watching it. 'nuff said.



Do yourself a favor and read the manga, but read from the beginning, the anime was never able to really capture the felling of the manga, after so many years is highly unlikely they will ever adapt the rest of the manga, so just read the manga and see for yourself how awesome the national championship was.


----------



## Fang (Nov 7, 2009)

Dr. Slump is the best you cretins


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Nov 7, 2009)

Someone compared Saint Seiya to Sailor Moon TWF

What will you do


----------



## Fang (Nov 7, 2009)

I will show them the darkness of hell


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Nov 7, 2009)

sailor moon mixed with robots


----------



## Fang (Nov 7, 2009)

Which Sailor Scout is your favorite

based on personality, nothing so shallow as looks


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Nov 7, 2009)

Mars and Mercury of course

Neptune is Gayn's gal 

The Sailor Moon mixed with robots comment reminded me of Jenny XJ9

And when I remember XJ9, I remember the best thread I ever made which cost Gayn his life


----------



## Fang (Nov 7, 2009)

My favorite is Mars because she is fiery and a independent woman in a man's world


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Nov 7, 2009)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9uTmJVnYmM[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## The Doctor (Nov 7, 2009)

sailor venus bcuz she is submissive

ain't nothing better than submissive women

just like hinata chan


----------



## Gary (Nov 7, 2009)

This is so hard to pick.
JJBA
Slam dunk
one piece
eyehield 21
YYH 
Hunter x Hunter 
FMA


----------



## ForteAnly (Nov 7, 2009)

Dragon Ball will always be one of the best shonen's out there despite how many dislike it. One Piece is also one of the best current shonen's.


----------



## Ennoea (Nov 7, 2009)

I feel Ranma 1/2 should be there too.


----------



## Gabe (Nov 7, 2009)

Dragon Ball is the best shonen of all time. and the best one right know is FMA


----------



## Deathbringerpt (Nov 8, 2009)

carrotdawg said:


> Saint Seiya
> This is pretty much just sailor moon, mixed with robots.  i dropped it after like two episodes after trying to make sense of what was going on.





carrotdawg said:


> This is pretty much just sailor moon, mixed with robots.





carrotdawg said:


> sailor moon, mixed with robots.





carrotdawg said:


> sailor moon





carrotdawg said:


> robots


----------



## Lord Genome (Nov 8, 2009)

GTO has one good character

and many bad ones


----------



## cbus05 (Nov 8, 2009)

I just have to say this since it needs to be said as much as possible.


If you like Shounen action/fantasy/sci fi manga... red Psyren.

I honestly think it's the most enjoyable manga out right now. 


It's still relatively early in the manga, but I can't remember a single chapter that dissapoints. Some say it starts out a little slow, but I was a big fan of the start. The very beginning shoots you straight into the plot line, and there is a LOT of mystery going on in this series. 


Compared to most shounen, Psyren is much more focused on the plot. There aren't necessarily any huge twists (at least yet), but the plot is very unpredictable as there are always new elements that raise questions about what the future holds. 


The concept is a welcome change to the typical shounen in a fantasy world/ typical shounen dealing with ghosts/soul reapers. 





Aside from Psyren....


Claymore needs to be on this list. I think it's much better than FMA (although a different category to be fair).



Hunter X Hunter is very well written, but the overall plot at this point is still not much more than Gon and Killua randomly wandering the world doing crap while Gon looks for his dad. I love how the current arc has developed, and ignoring the hiatus, it could have an epic ending. But I would have really hoped to see more of an overall plot line where you at least have an idea where the story will end at.


One Piece has been awesome for the last 100 chapters or so, and has a habit of getting better and better. I think Oda has a way that no other Mangaka I've ever read in bringing out the emotions in a battle. I've never cried during any movie, but as dumb as it sounds, I had to fight back tears when they were burning the Merry.  With that said, one piece also seems to fillerize itself too much. Too much time has been spent on crap that just didn't matter (ie Davy Back... drawing out many of the arcs... although this has been handled better recently). Furthermore, even without that in mind, the first three arcs completely sucked. I blame this on the villains being shit and Oda not honing his balance between seriousness and whimsical-ness well enough at this point. Buggy is a cool character now, but overall, his arc blew. Kuro and Baratie arc were even worse, although if you compare his writing style from then to now, it's completely different (and better.)


FMA- It's incredibly well written. Although I honestly (and I still cant put a finger on why) am not all THAT into this series. I've read it all the way to the current, and I think a lot of it is that I'm not a fan of the setting, but i get bored of FMA sometimes.


----------



## geniux (Nov 8, 2009)

Lord Genome said:


> GTO has one good character
> 
> and many bad ones



hmm debateable but true


----------



## Lord Genome (Nov 8, 2009)

Onizuka is cool

everyone else are ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) crybabies who try to kill themselves every two chapters


----------



## The Doctor (Nov 8, 2009)

Rookies > GTO


----------



## Fang (Nov 8, 2009)

Did someone say that psy-ren is a candidate for the best Shonen?


----------



## RivFader (Nov 8, 2009)

TWF said:


> Did someone say that psy-ren is a candidate for the best Shonen?



Yeah, Yak said it some pages ago.


----------



## Han Solo (Nov 8, 2009)

You bunch of ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".).

Read Dr. Slump.


----------



## Han Solo (Nov 8, 2009)

I would have included Dragonball aswell if it had ended at the Frieza arc.


----------



## Lucaniel (Nov 8, 2009)

How anyone could put Dragonball above Great Teacher Onizuka is beyond me.


----------



## Han Solo (Nov 8, 2009)

Lucaniel said:


> How anyone could put Dragonball above Great Teacher Onizuka is beyond me.



Because GTO has one good character.

That's it.


----------



## MdB (Nov 8, 2009)

TWF said:


> Did someone say that psy-ren is a candidate for the best Shonen?



It's nothing special, but it's far more enjoyable than most generic shounen crap.


----------



## Fang (Nov 8, 2009)

Han Solo said:


> I would have included Dragonball aswell if it had ended at the Frieza arc.



It was still good. Every single time Vegeta showed up in the Androids arc he was spouting awesome shit or acting like the bad-ass he was in the Saiyan arc.


----------



## Han Solo (Nov 8, 2009)

MdB said:


> It's nothing special, but it's far more enjoyable than most generic shounen crap.



I heard it's got better recently.

I got to like chapter 20 when it first started getting scanated and dropped it.


----------



## MdB (Nov 8, 2009)

Han Solo said:


> I heard it's got better recently.
> 
> I got to like chapter 20 when it first started getting scanated and dropped it.



First chapters weren't good, but it's currently shaping to be something interesting. If only the art could've been more distinctive.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Nov 9, 2009)

RivFader said:


> Yeah, Yak said it some pages ago.



Read that paragraph again


----------



## Mongolian Chop Squad (Nov 9, 2009)

Hunter x Hunter should be first in the polls.


----------



## RivFader (Nov 9, 2009)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> Read that paragraph again



Sorry, did it already. Why was Yak banned btw?


----------



## Fang (Nov 9, 2009)

Look at his post history, nothing actually ban worthy but Staff seem to be oversensitive.

Also 90% of JJBA is Shonen. :froggy:


----------



## RivFader (Nov 9, 2009)

TWF said:


> Look at his post history, nothing actually ban worthy but Staff seem to be oversensitive.
> 
> Also 90% of JJBA is Shonen. :froggy:



Too bad, and yes: JJBA is awesome


----------



## Fang (Nov 9, 2009)

Worst manga I ever read was JJBA


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Nov 9, 2009)

He got banned for at best mild flaming in SL

Hilarious considering the poster that he did it against should have been banned himself for trolling

Edit:

"JJBA is a generic fighting shounen"

Kudos to anyone who can figure out who originaly said that


----------



## POSERMOBILE (Nov 9, 2009)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> "JJBA is a generic fighting shounen"
> 
> Kudos to anyone who can figure out who originaly said that


----------



## Jon Snow (Nov 9, 2009)

The fact that HxH isn't winning is wrong.


----------



## Inugami (Nov 9, 2009)

Jon Snow said:


> The fact that HxH isn't winning is wrong.



blame Togashi and his lazy ass for that .


----------



## ragnara (Nov 9, 2009)

One Piece. Hunter x Hunter could have won if it wasn't on hiatus 99% of the time.


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## Fang (Nov 9, 2009)

The only realistic choices for best Shonen honestly are either Hokuto no Ken (played a huge influence on Bastard!!, Berserk, and JJBA), JJBA, Dragon Ball/Dr. Slump or One Piece.


----------



## hgfdsahjkl (Nov 9, 2009)

voted HunterxHunter

I guess the ranking is understandable
Op and FMA are quality manga with active fandom (damn it Togashi  )

my only complain is dragon ball

ofcourse toriyama is a genius for starting the shonen fighting genre

bth
the characters are cliche (just compare Cell to king from HxH since they nearly share the same physical appearance),random power ups ,
the storyline is nothing compared to the like of york shin and FMA

so to those who consider it one of the best?what are your reasons?

I'mnt flaming DB,I like and respect it


----------



## The Imp (Nov 9, 2009)

The first part is better than the second by miles. Less power ups. A better story. A better villain. Simply a more enjoyable read. 

That said I still agree that DB shouldn't be in the poll. But whatever it's not like that poll really proves anything.


----------



## Mook Mook the Bushman (Nov 9, 2009)

hgfdsahjkl said:


> my only complain is dragon ball
> 
> ofcourse toriyama is a genius for starting the shonen fighting genre
> 
> ...


trying to prove something is cliche by comparing it to something that came out after it doesn't work



kurono76767 said:


> The first part is better than the second by miles. Less power ups. A better story. A better villain. Simply a more enjoyable read.
> 
> That said I still agree that DB shouldn't be in the poll. But whatever it's not like that poll really proves anything.


Might as well take out Fist of the North Star then as well, since it declines quality wise after Roah's death


----------



## p-lou (Nov 9, 2009)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> "JJBA is a generic fighting shounen"
> 
> Kudos to anyone who can figure out who originaly said that



it was me

that was an easy one


----------



## Fang (Nov 9, 2009)

Always thought and still believe that the golden age of Dragon Ball was between the 22nd Budokai to Freeza arc.

Pretty much Toriyama at his best as both a writer and artist. And yeah the guy owns at gag manga hands down, no ONE compares.

Not even Oda.


----------



## Zhang_Fei (Nov 9, 2009)

What about Beck?  I wouldn?t call it the best shonen, but it?s around there.

For me if you combined One Piece?s world/attention to detail/submersiveness with Hunter x Hunter?s fighting system/abilities, with Full Metal Alchemist?s intrigue/complicated plot, with HnI?s feelgood/underdog vibe/characters, with Yakitate and Gintama?s wtf? comedy, then you?d have a damn good shonen.     

One day I shall read Slam Dunk; never gotten around to reading it.


----------



## Trick2 (Nov 9, 2009)

I was supposed to add HxH but the constant hiatus is clearly affecting my judgment right now...



Zhang_Fei said:


> For me if you combined One Piece?s world/attention to detail/submersiveness with Hunter x Hunter?s fighting system/abilities, with Full Metal Alchemist?s intrigue/complicated plot, with HnI?s feelgood/underdog vibe/characters, with Yakitate and Gintama?s wtf? comedy, then you?d have a damn good shonen.



We can dream


----------



## gumby2ms (Nov 10, 2009)

i say FMA, though OP is great fun. not really a huge fan of shonoun like FMA the most because it's dark like all the great seinin I adore. monthlies have an edge because they tend to have better pacing, not really a far contest for weeklies imo.


----------



## Gnome (Nov 10, 2009)

it sounds like Dr. Slump is really good, i think i'll read it


----------



## MRain65 (Nov 10, 2009)

I haven't read most of those titles, so I'm probably not in any position to make claims about which of them are the best.

I will say that OP honestly bored me, but I can see why so many love it so much, even if I don't share their enthusiasm. Maybe it stands out because so many shounen manga are derivative and unoriginal (or outright plagiarizing other manga).

I can also say that FMA is probably overall the best shounen manga I've read in some time. It's extremely well plotted--the pacing is pitch-perfect--and very entertaining to read. The art is pretty simple, but it works for the story. The characters are compelling. There's plenty of action. Pretty much the whole package. I don't know that it's better than OP, because apart from both being "shounen," they're so different that it would be like comparing apples to oranges, but it's incredibly popular for a reason. 

Looking at OP and FMA, though, I'd have to say that OP seems like much more of a "shounen" series than FMA, even though they both run in shounen magazines. OP seems to embody, I guess, the "spirit of shounen" (basically unadulterated awesome, camaraderie, battles that go on for several chapters, a sense of fun, "I want to become stronger," etc. etc.), while FMA...doesn't. FMA comes across as if it were a light novel adapted for manga, like Suzumiya Haruhi, because of all the worldbuilding. It's not that it's more mature or anything, but it seems weird to lump it in with other shounen manga.

If BLEACH had stayed as well written as it was during the Soul Society arc, I would rank it up there as well, but these days it's pretty much dreck.

No love for Death Note? I guess it worsened pretty rapidly after the midpoint mark, but it also struck me as impressively original and well-plotted, and the art was gorgeous. I have to wonder if its popularity will last, though. I think that FMA and OP will still be popular in 20 years. Death Note? I dunno.


----------



## Han Solo (Nov 10, 2009)

TWF said:


> The only realistic choices for best Shonen honestly are either Hokuto no Ken (played a huge influence on Bastard!!, Berserk, and JJBA), JJBA, Dragon Ball/Dr. Slump or One Piece.



You'd have to add Slam Dunk to that list at least.

Massive influence on the Japanese people and culture, and sold over 100 million volumes.

As for why I did not include Hokuto no Ken, well this:



Bret Maverick said:


> Might as well take out Fist of the North Star then as well, since it declines quality wise after Roah's death



Same with Dragonball. Decline in quality.


----------



## Quwrof Wrlccywrlir (Nov 10, 2009)

hgfdsahjkl said:


> ofcourse toriyama is a genius for starting the shonen fighting genre
> 
> bth
> the characters are cliche (just compare Cell to king from HxH since they nearly share the same physical appearance),random power ups ,
> ...



cliche does not immediately imply bad quality. for example, back to the future movie is cliched as hell (in terms of characters, the storyline, relies on a popularized but false version of time travel, etc) but it is easily one of the greatest sci-fi movie ever and its screenplay is ranked in the top 100 of _all_ movies. this shows a lot of what makes a good film depends on the execution. so why is dragon ball on the list? i don't know, i didn't read it. but all i can say is that it being typical or cliched does not automatically discount it from the list. in fact, it takes a lot of talent to create characters as iconic as goku.


another thing: as you said, dragon ball started the shounen genre. as such, i think it is asking too much if you expect it to be as innovative or less cliched as other mangas like jjba or fma. most starters or trend-setters usually set the blueprint or the 'formula' of a certain genre or category, and it is usually the latter mangas that do the innovation (simply because they have been spoon-fed the formula and can thus start from there instead of from scratch). so it is unfair to judge dragon ball by the current standards of what is cliche or typical or what is unique, etc. that it created a genre is its innovation it itself.


----------



## hgfdsahjkl (Nov 10, 2009)

I was wrong at using the word cliche(yes,I know cliche doesnt=bad)

I meant the character depth/development



> so it is unfair to judge dragon ball by the current standards of what is cliche or typical or what is unique, etc. that it created a genre is its innovation it itself



it might be unfair 
but when you want to choose the best one, you have to judge it by the current standards

that's why as kurono said
I don't think DB should be on the poll


----------



## El Torero (Nov 10, 2009)

Poll lacks Gintama 

Fullmetal Alchemist and One Piece are for me levels above the other shonens


----------



## MdB (Nov 10, 2009)

MRain65 said:


> If BLEACH had stayed as well written as it was during the Soul Society arc, I would rank it up there as well, but these days it's pretty much dreck.



You seriously need to read more manga if you think the Soul Society arc is brilliant.


----------



## agentgraves (Nov 10, 2009)

There is no such thing as best in a demographic.


----------



## KidQuick (Nov 10, 2009)

Poll lacks Naruto and Bleach. Of course OP wins without those options.

And Fist of the North star...shonen..RLY?? That is so epically gory and violent that it couldn't possibly qualify as a "boys" manga. That is definitely seinen.


----------



## agentgraves (Nov 10, 2009)

KidQuick said:


> Poll lacks Naruto and Bleach. Of course OP wins without those options.
> 
> And Fist of the North star...shonen..RLY?? That is so epically gory and violent that it couldn't possibly qualify as a "boys" manga. That is definitely seinen.



Naruto and Bleach aren't there because they are bad.

Fist of the North Star was published in _Shonen_ Jump.


----------



## RivFader (Nov 10, 2009)

KidQuick said:


> Poll lacks Naruto and Bleach. Of course OP wins without those options.
> 
> And Fist of the North star...shonen..RLY?? That is so epically gory and violent that it couldn't possibly qualify as a "boys" manga. That is definitely seinen.



Naruto and Bleach are mediocre, and FotNS is something that was classified as Shounen as it was aimed at the demographic when the definition at the term wasn't that clear.


----------



## MdB (Nov 10, 2009)

KidQuick said:


> Poll lacks Naruto and Bleach. Of course OP wins without those options.
> 
> And Fist of the North star...shonen..RLY?? That is so epically gory and violent that it couldn't possibly qualify as a "boys" manga. That is definitely seinen.



That's because they're terrible, especially Bleach.

And Fist of the North Star is shonen.


----------



## Vandal Savage (Nov 10, 2009)

KidQuick said:


> Poll lacks Naruto and Bleach. Of course OP wins without those options.



The point was to not compare One Piece with bottom tier shounen. Anything can look great when it has garbage next to it. The series deserves better company than that.


----------



## MRain65 (Nov 10, 2009)

> You seriously need to read more manga if you think the Soul Society arc is brilliant.



I've read tons of manga, actually, but thanks for the condescension. Not that it's any worse than some of your other posts on this thread; I guess you failed to notice the "possibly constructive" part of the thread title. Geez, not everyone agrees with you; deal with it.

Hokuto no Ken ran in Shounen Jump?...Wow. Should something be considered "better" simply for being more influential, though?


----------



## Muah (Nov 10, 2009)

When you say best I doubt you mean my favorite so by going with quality op I would have to say Hajiime not ippo or One piece.


----------



## Mongolian Chop Squad (Nov 10, 2009)

Jon Snow said:


> The fact that HxH isn't winning is wrong.



True that. 

HxH fan where are you.


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## HugeGuy (Nov 10, 2009)

Yondaime X3 said:


> True that.
> 
> HxH fan where are you.



I thought they went extinct last century.


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## Whimsy (Nov 10, 2009)

Yondaime X3 said:


> True that.
> 
> HxH fan where are you.



I'm guessing it's because there hasn't been a chapter in ages and the last batch have been substandard. That tends to shaft your chances of being the top of anything.


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## hgfdsahjkl (Nov 10, 2009)

I find the last 10 chap to be amazing

the real reason is the hiatus


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## p-lou (Nov 10, 2009)

the real reason is it's boring and has been for a long time


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## Zoidberg (Nov 10, 2009)

I miss Hisoka


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## hgfdsahjkl (Nov 10, 2009)

Fuck yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

HxH back on 1/4 credit to Kewl


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## RivFader (Nov 10, 2009)

hgfdsahjkl said:


> Fuck yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
> 
> HxH back on 1/4 credit to Kewl



1) There's another thread for this.
2) HELL YEAH!


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## hgfdsahjkl (Nov 10, 2009)

open the HxH thread


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## Whimsy (Nov 10, 2009)

:snorlax

It's going to be more Cell Jr chatting herbs and no Genei Ryodan action.


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## firefist (Nov 10, 2009)

looking at the poll, it seems I barely read any "top shonen" with only Dragon Ball and One Piece on my list till now.


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## krizma (Nov 11, 2009)

Hunter X Hunter? 

the others are ok though


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## Black Leg Sanji (Nov 11, 2009)

RivFader said:


> Naruto and Bleach are mediocre



You are giving them to much credit


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## Toreador (Nov 11, 2009)

Hunter x Hunter !

The Ant arc are really underestimated imo, reread it now!

Finally coming back aswell, CANT FUCKING WAIT !!


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## ArtieBoy (Nov 11, 2009)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> You are giving them to much credit



haha this gave me a good laugh


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## Black Leg Sanji (Nov 11, 2009)

But its true


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## Yagami1211 (Nov 11, 2009)

The lack of Negima is most disturbing.


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## Whimsy (Nov 11, 2009)

killua12345 said:


> Hunter x Hunter !
> 
> The Ant arc are really underestimated imo, reread it now!
> 
> Finally coming back aswell, CANT FUCKING WAIT !!



Sadly in the interminable hiatuses I read stuff that blows HxH out of the water. And the ant arc is really average, not exactly helped by the fact that you have to wait six fucking months for a chapter. Why people still get rabid for this shit is beyond me.




Yagami1211 said:


> The lack of Negima is most disturbing.




No it's not, it's shit. The art is horrifying.


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## hgfdsahjkl (Nov 11, 2009)

Whimsy said:


> Sadly in the interminable hiatuses I read stuff that blows HxH out of the water. And the ant arc is really average, not exactly helped by the fact that you have to wait six fucking months for a chapter. Why people still get rabid for this shit is beyond me.



ant arc is superb
anyway you will find the exact opposite opinion about everything


what did you read during the hiatus ?


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## Malumultimus (Nov 11, 2009)

Everyone has different tastes. A sports manga could have the greatest art and story imaginable, but still fail in the eyes of readers who simply don't like sports. Or a series could be ambitious and well-thought out, satisfying readers of all varieties, but still fail if the art sucks or it only comes out once every blue moon. And because of this it's not difficult to understand why simpler series are so popular.


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## hgfdsahjkl (Nov 11, 2009)

lol
I just said the same

I hope that more people can understand that,and try to enjoy everything


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## Whimsy (Nov 11, 2009)

hgfdsahjkl said:


> ant arc is superb
> anyway you will find the exact opposite opinion about everything
> 
> 
> what did you read during the hiatus ?



Loads and loads of awesome shit. There has been a lot of hiatuses.

HxH was good, but it's not good enough to wait this long for. There's better stuff out there. Also, reading it with such long breaks gets really disorientating.


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## hgfdsahjkl (Nov 11, 2009)

tell me so I can check them out

for me HxH is the best 



> reading it with such long breaks gets really disorientating



I agree with that
only the real tards as myself can keep up with it


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## Malumultimus (Nov 11, 2009)

hgfdsahjkl said:


> lol
> I just said the same
> 
> I hope that more people can understand that,and try to enjoy everything



That won't happen. People need something to bitch about. I've spent more than a decade on the internetz talking to people and I've learned one thing:

If it isn't existing to satisfy them, they will exist to demean it.



Whimsy said:


> Loads and loads of awesome shit. There has been a lot of hiatuses.
> 
> HxH was good, but it's not good enough to wait this long for. There's better stuff out there. Also, reading it with such long breaks gets really disorientating.



You make it sound like reading a story is a physical event that you must dedicate yourself to. Not criticizing you, but a lot of people seem to act this way, and I never understood it. If a series is on hiatus, you...you do nothing. And people act like this is somehow a problem, like they designate 10 minutes a week to enjoying a manga and if the manga doesn't come out, it somehow has wasted those (precious) 10 minutes.

You can still enjoy a story without being in the process of reading it. Hunter x Hunter is my third favorite series and I haven't even talked about it with anyone in months. It's not like its weighing on my soul or something, or I have to replace it with a different series (reading manga is not exactly time consuming -- it's not the same as belonging to a gentlemen's club or something).

Just letting that out; I don't mean to direct it at you specifically.


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## Whimsy (Nov 11, 2009)

Malumultimus said:


> That won't happen. People need something to bitch about. I've spent more than a decade on the internetz talking to people and I've learned one thing:
> 
> If it isn't existing to satisfy them, they will exist to demean it.
> 
> ...



I do actually like HxH (mainly due to York Shin arc, which was excellent), but I can't really be bothered with it any more. 

It's not so much the dedication to the story that I have an issue with, it's more that there are other things that I want to read that have taken priority over HxH. When there's an ongoing story, it is difficult if you have to wait for an undisclosed amount of time for the next chapter. Imagine reading a novel like that, it would be absolutely infuriating, especially if the quality declines - the wait only increases the disappointment in this case. I've given up on Berserk for the same reason.

 I will probably read it, it's just that I don't see how you can call something that comes along once in a blue moon and is, at least to me, not the creme de la creme, the best manga ever.


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## Malumultimus (Nov 11, 2009)

I guess I just disagree. I simply wait. Yes, there are lots of other series out there, which is why a series you enjoy going on hiatus isn't a big deal. It's unfortunate, but I don't find it damaging to the series at all (just the mangaka's character).

You already accept this to a certain extent when you read manga to begin with, as they come in weekly or monthly serializations, and a single arc can span years with some chapters having nothing of interest even really happening. That's simply how manga is. Series taking breaks is just an extension of that and, perhaps it's just me, but a longer wait doesn't make me lose any more interest than I already lose in the days following a chapter's release.


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## Griever (Nov 11, 2009)

Dragonball and GTO for me, i love those manga .


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## krizma (Nov 11, 2009)

Whimsy said:


> I will probably read it, it's just that I don't see how you can call something that comes along once in a blue moon and is, at least to me, not the creme de la creme, the best manga ever.



How does that have anything to do with the actual quality of the manga? I understand that you're angry and tired of it (I am too), but it's not a criterion when you want to rate the true quality. In 10 years, when the manga is finished (haha), nobody will care that the manga release was plagued by hiatuses, because the quality of the manga has (imo) not drastically decreased. If anything, I think ever since he started releasing 10 chapters a time, the quality has increased again.
The same goes for the art. Once the manga is finished, nobody will care if the chapters from the SJ release were shitty and scratch like, because the volume releases were redrawn.


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## hgfdsahjkl (Nov 11, 2009)

btw

what's the difference between shonen and senien JJBA ?


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## Jugger (Nov 11, 2009)

hgfdsahjkl said:


> btw
> 
> what's the difference between shonen and senien JJBA ?



yeah good question i have read 5 first arc of jjba and all of those could be seinen.


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## Tobirama (Nov 11, 2009)

hgfdsahjkl said:


> btw
> 
> what's the difference between shonen and senien JJBA ?



The magazine they're published in.


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## zuul (Nov 11, 2009)

If that JJBA I've never read qualify to the list, I say Vinaland Saga should too. It was first published in a shounen mag, and the first chapters were full of epicness.
_
*Vinland Saga tard mode off
_


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## Fang (Nov 11, 2009)

I like how generic pantsu harem oriented Negima (which has more conotations towards Shoujo anyways) has its fandom trying to lump it with Dragon Ball, Hokuto no Ken, One Piece and JJBA. 

*insert ryoma smiley here galore*


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## Tobirama (Nov 11, 2009)

When did Vinland Saga move to it's current format


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## zuul (Nov 11, 2009)

Tobirama said:


> When did Vinland Saga move to it's current format


 

According to wikipedia :




> The series is published by Kodansha, and was first serialized in the youth-targeted Weekly Shōnen Magazine before moving to the monthly manga magazine Afternoon, aimed at younger adult men.



The arts did get better once it was monthlyfied I believe...

Shall try to find the exact moment....


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## Jugger (Nov 11, 2009)

TWF said:


> I like how generic pantsu harem oriented Negima (which has more conotations towards Shoujo anyways) has its fandom trying to lump it with Dragon Ball, Hokuto no Ken, One Piece and JJBA.
> 
> *insert ryoma smiley here galore*



read negima before comparing it to shojo manga. Well shonen isn?t all about those battle adventure gerneric stuff there is still slice of live and harem stuff


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## Fang (Nov 11, 2009)

I am reading Negima.


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## Whimsy (Nov 11, 2009)

krizma said:


> How does that have anything to do with the actual quality of the manga? I understand that you're angry and tired of it (I am too), but it's not a criterion when you want to rate the true quality. In 10 years, when the manga is finished (haha), nobody will care that the manga release was plagued by hiatuses, because the quality of the manga has (imo) not drastically decreased. If anything, I think ever since he started releasing 10 chapters a time, the quality has increased again.
> The same goes for the art. Once the manga is finished, nobody will care if the chapters from the SJ release were shitty and scratch like, because the volume releases were redrawn.



Yeah but we're going by what it is _now_, not what it could be in the future. We can only go by what we've got. And what we've got is what to me is an incredibly average arc which is being dragged out to buggery even without the hiatuses. With them it's almost interminable.

I can also see it never being finished and people hailing it as the unfinished masterpiece.


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## MdB (Nov 11, 2009)

Jugger said:


> read negima before comparing it to shojo manga. Well shonen isn?t all about those battle adventure gerneric stuff there is still slice of live and harem stuff



Are you implying that the general cases of slice-of-life and harem are not generic in the anime and manga medium? You're getting smarter with every single post, Jugger.


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## Black Leg Sanji (Nov 11, 2009)

TWF said:


> I am reading Negima.





Let us know how that works for ya


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## Jugger (Nov 11, 2009)

MdB said:


> Are you implying that the general cases of slice-of-life and harem are not generic in the anime and manga medium? You're getting smarter with every single post, Jugger.



I forgot what i was meaning


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## p-lou (Nov 11, 2009)

VS ran in the shonen mag for the first two volumes and maybe a few chapters after that

and the reason yukimura switched was because he wanted to be on the monthly schedule


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## zuul (Nov 11, 2009)

Speaking about shounen, am I the only one who knows and appreciate Cobra ?

For once a shounen with an adult, sexy and charismatic lead.

And the author probably draws the sexiest chicks ever... Not the usual moe fail.

To be honest, I only saw the anime though I plan to buy the deluxe edition some day...



As for VS, it's a good thing it became a seinen, I'm not sure toddlers would have been massacred with an axe if it weren't. Which would have sepressed one of the most tearjerking scene. 

_/off topic off
_
Still Slam Dunk for me. Was it really published weekly ? because when I see the quality of the drawings.


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## Fang (Nov 11, 2009)

There are plenty of people I know who are old enough to appreciate Cobra.


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## MdB (Nov 11, 2009)

I told you ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) in the Convo thread to watch Cobra.


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## zuul (Nov 11, 2009)

MdB said:


> I told you ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) in the Convo thread to watch Cobra.



Moar Cobra pimping.


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## Black Leg Sanji (Nov 11, 2009)

The old one or the remake?

I got the latter


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## zuul (Nov 11, 2009)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> The old one or the remake?
> 
> I got the latter



What there is a remake ??? 

I only watched the 70's anime version...


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## Black Leg Sanji (Nov 11, 2009)

zuul said:


> What there is a remake ???
> 
> I only watched the 70's anime version...


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## Krauser-tan (Nov 11, 2009)

zuul said:


> _/off topic off
> _
> Still Slam Dunk for me. Was it really published weekly ? because when I see the quality of the drawings.




yes, inoue is just that good.


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## zuul (Nov 11, 2009)

Black Leg Sanji said:


>



Thank you...

Time to search for the streaming then...



Zaoldyeck said:


> yes, inoue is just that good.



Notice that all the characters have distinctive designs even the females, thing that can't be said of many artists including the best.

Hojo's chicks look all the same for example... And in fact I cannot think of a single magaka besides Inoue with distinctive female design...


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## Eldritch (Nov 11, 2009)

Jugger said:


> I forgot what i was meaning



even geniuses make follies occasionally


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## Han Solo (Nov 11, 2009)

zuul said:


> Thank you...
> 
> Time to search for the streaming then...
> 
> ...



Kishiro.

10char


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## zuul (Nov 11, 2009)

Han Solo said:


> Kishiro.
> 
> 10char



I don't know either. 

Anyway mangas with distinctive female design are quite rare...


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## Han Solo (Nov 11, 2009)

zuul said:


> I don't know either.
> 
> Anyway mangas with distinctive female design are quite rare...



Kishiro has done Battle Angel Alita/GUNNM, it's sequel Last Order and a totally different series in Aqua Knight.

Which is where the art for my sig and avatar come from.

The art for GUNNM and Last Order is totally different from the art in Aqua Kinght to the point where you really wouldn't think they were done by the same mangaka.

He's that damn good.


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## Nuzzie (Nov 11, 2009)

I agree that the art for Aqua Knight is quite a bit different from BAA but it still definitely looks like Kishiro did it.

If you wanna look at something with him completely changing it up and really not being able to tell it was done by Kishiro, then you've gotta read Ashen Victor.


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## insi_tv (Nov 11, 2009)

i voted slam dunk!

was one of the first mangas i've ever read (was introduced by a friend) and after reading more mangas i've realised how GOOD the characters were. i liked everyone of them, even rukawa the genius ;D
i'm planning on rereading it after i've caught up to current vagabond chapters.

i didn't read every manga listed, but 2nd would be Hajime no Ippo. really good, but recent chapters just SUCK and it feels like the manga isn't going anywhere soon... maybe One Piece would be a better 2nd


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## p-lou (Nov 11, 2009)

Nuzzie said:


> If you wanna look at something with him completely changing it up and really not being able to tell it was done by Kishiro, then you've gotta read Ashen Victor.



i see it as kishiro's effort to do a frank miller impersonation


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