# Minato vs 8th Gated Gai



## LostSelf (Jan 10, 2015)

Don't ask me. Saw several ones saying Minato was faster.

*Location:* Gaikage and fangirls vs Juudara.
*Distance:* 50 meters.
*Knowledge:* Manga
*SoM:* Gotta need to slap my superiority to this bitches kicking Minato's ass for Gai. Cannot let my fans down at any cost for Minato.
*Restrictions:* Wank and leaving the battlefield to take a coffee.

*Scenario 1: *Base Minato.
*Scenario 2:* KCM Minato.
*Scenario 3:* BM Minato.

*Minato is alive.*


----------



## Dominus (Jan 10, 2015)

This is a battle of speed or a "regular" fight?


----------



## LostSelf (Jan 10, 2015)

Regular. Doesn't matter much, because if Minato was faster, he would have no troubles outlasting Gai dodging him with Hiraishin .


----------



## Dominus (Jan 10, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> Regular. Doesn't matter much, because if Minato was faster, he would have no troubles outlasting Gai dodging him with Hiraishin .



If KCM and BM Minato is Edo Tensei Minato, then he outlasts Gai unless Gai has sealing tags.
Alive Minato loses since he's not allowed to leave the battlefield.

As for the speed, it depends on the circumstances.
For example, if it's the question of who would get faster from point A to B and the distance is 100km and Minato has a Hiraishin seal prepared at B, he would win. But in my opinion Gai's speed is much more useful in battle as we have seen when both of them fought against Madara. Minato can get faster from point A to B than either of them (if he has a Hiraishin seal prepared), but when he tries to attack them he gets destroyed against both of them.


----------



## Hachibi (Jan 10, 2015)

Depends on Alive Minato's stamina.

KCM and BM Minato outlast tho


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 10, 2015)

You have to be a ret... a person with unusual, strange logic to think any of these Minato vertions could outpase 8th Gate Guy. Or you have to be unknowledgable on Manga. 

7 Gate Guy was much faster than any vertion of Minato, since he was in the same speed class as Juubidara. 8 Gate Guy can blitz all these Minato vertions and they wont be fast enough to teleport away. 

And realy - alive, base Minato is overrated in terms of speed. What has he done? Had problems with featless young Obito? Or beat featless young Ei? Or beat large fodder numbers thanks to his shinobi allies? Even base Guy can give him lots of trouble in a fight, unless he brings out a frog. 

8 Gate Guy is a slaughter stomp, if Minato's are alive.


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 10, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> Regular. Doesn't matter much, because if Minato was faster, he would have no troubles outlasting Gai dodging him with Hiraishin .



He wont have reaction speed to FTG away even in a fight with 7 Gate Guy. Even base Guy can give lots of trouble to base Minato if he wont us Sage Mode and Frog.


----------



## Patrick (Jan 10, 2015)

Gai can't beat an Edo, due to a complete lack of sealing or supression techniques. So if any of these are Edo Minato, Minato takes it. 

I however can't see even BM Minato tank the full force of Gai's assault. He nearly killed Juudara with it and I don't consider Minato nearly as tanky and even though Minato has godly speed and reflexes, 8th gate Gai is a Tier ahead of him in that aspect as well.


----------



## Rocky (Jan 10, 2015)

Gai beat up a version of Madara that beat up Minato effortlessly. Minato is the weaker shinobi.


----------



## Complete_Ownage (Jan 10, 2015)

8 Gated Gai destroys alive Minato

Gai has no way of sealing Edo Tensei however so Minato will simply outlast


----------



## trance (Jan 10, 2015)

Gai was wrecking and nearly blitzing Juudara, who has effortlessly outperformed Minato. Gai wins.


----------



## sabre320 (Jan 10, 2015)

does gai start in 8th gate? and does minato have prep?  if he starts in 8th gate he blitz because minato wont be able to put markings if he dosent start in 8th gate and minato starts in bm he makes clones and they shunshin out and he litters markings from there he teleports keeping distance against gated gai..


----------



## ForzaRoma (Jan 10, 2015)

Gai destroys Minato.


----------



## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Jan 10, 2015)

Multiple shadow clone jutsu. Minato and his clones all run off in different directions. Guy wastes time chasing clone by clone. He cannot the physically go after them all at once.

The more clones Guy destroys, the more clones minato makes. If Guy coincidentally chases after the right minato. Minato simply teleports to a clone that's run off in another direction.

Each clone is simultaneously marking the battlefield as they run their separate ways,. So Minato always has an escape route.

Minato obviously knows it's impossible for him to approach the 8th gate, so he'll just waste time and play keep away. Usuing shunshin no jutsu to create distance.


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 10, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> does gai start in 8th gate? and does minato have prep?  if he starts in 8th gate he blitz because minato wont be able to put markings if he dosent start in 8th gate and minato starts in bm he makes clones and they shunshin out and he litters markings from there he teleports keeping distance against gated gai..



His Evening Elephant has great AoE, so clones will be destroyed. And even in BM, he wont have enough reaction speed to FTG away. 

8 Gate Guy murders him.


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 10, 2015)

RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki said:


> Multiple shadow clone jutsu. Minato and his clones all run off in different directions. Guy wastes time chasing clone by clone. He cannot the physically go after them all at once.
> 
> The more clones Guy destroys, the more clones minato makes. If Guy coincidentally chases after the right minato. Minato simply teleports to a clone that's run off in another direction.
> 
> ...



He wont waste time, because he many times faster than any vertion of Minato. His clones will get destroyed by Evening Elephants AOE. It has great AOE, as it is seen by the very first Evening Elephant punch he made.

If he is in 8 Gates from the start, Minato wont have time to make shadow clones. And he wont teleport away, because he simply doesnt have fast enough reaction speed to do so. Guy will take his head off effortlessly.


----------



## Mercurial (Jan 10, 2015)

7th Gate Gai defeat alive Minato. Gai is physically faster (by far) and has far better reactions. His taijutsu skill and reflexes allowed him to fend off Obito's CQC Kamui phasing without letting him to touch him and making him phase to not being hit, Minato isn't touching him to mark him with Hiraishin. Nunchaku also deflect the Hiraishin kunai, and Asa Kujaku and Hiru Tora totally screw on them, teleporting is useless with that AoE. But for hell's sake, just compare their feats, LoL.

Minato vs Juudara​


Minato tries to surprise Juudara with Hiraishin to land Rasengan but Juudara react with ease and counterhits by cutting the attacking arm and then kicking Minato away like shit, with Minato not being able to react and use Hiraishin in both istances. Minato isn't even able to end the attack he was trying, before he is swapped away.

Gai vs Juudara​


Gai clearly pressures Juudara with his speed and taijutsu skills, without letting him to touch him with the Gudodama staff or balls, and manages to corner him and launch his finishing attack, even if then is countered and defeated back.

Gai stomps.

Gai should defeat KCM Minato too with 7th Gate. He will need to open the 8th Gate to defeat BM Minato, who he blitzes and murders in an instant with blitz + casual punch/kick. No Sekizo or Night Guy needed.


----------



## Kyu (Jan 10, 2015)

Eighth Gate Gai murders him.

Minato can mentally react and teleport out of harm's way before Gai shatters his jaw(from 50 meters), but he can't move in time to put in an offense. The instant Gai-sensei's full speed comes into play (_Night Gai_/_Midnight Dragon_) - he crushes all hope for the Yondaime.


----------



## ARGUS (Jan 10, 2015)

Guy blitzes him, and rips his head off, no matter what form minato is in 
8th gate guy >>>> BM Minato > KCM Minato > 7th gate guy > Alive Minato


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 10, 2015)

ARGUS said:


> Guy blitzes him, and rips his head off, no matter what form minato is in
> 8th gate guy >>>> BM Minato > KCM Minato > 7th gate guy > Alive Minato



7th Gate Guy >>> KCM Minato.


----------



## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Jan 10, 2015)

base minato still defeats 7th gate. Only thing that Guy has on minato is taijutsu prowess. Minato still defeats him med difficulty.


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 10, 2015)

RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki said:


> base minato still defeats 7th gate. Only thing that Guy has on minato is taijutsu prowess. Minato still defeats him med difficulty.



Nope he doesnt. Minato is not in the same speed class as Juubidara. 7 Gate Guy is. Minato wont be able to teleport away, because he wont be able to react to Guy. 7 Gate Guy knocks him out, or takes his head off.


----------



## SSMG (Jan 10, 2015)

Guy wins this low diff.
8th gate guy>>> any version of minato
Seventh gate guy>>>sm minato
Base guy > base minato.

Theres also the fact that minato has nothing that can hurt guy.


----------



## ARGUS (Jan 10, 2015)

SSMG said:


> Guy wins this low diff.
> 8th gate guy>>> any version of minato
> Seventh gate guy>>>sm minato
> *Base guy > base minato.*



@Bold - Nope,
Base Guys gets wrecked against base minato, as he his reactions and striking speed in base are slower than minatos, so he gets marked and killed 

i agree with the rest ofc


----------



## SSMG (Jan 10, 2015)

ARGUS said:


> @Bold - Nope,
> Base Guys gets wrecked against base minato, as he his reactions and striking speed in base are slower than minatos, so he gets marked and killed
> 
> i agree with the rest ofc



Well base minatos best reaction speed feat is reacting to raikages top speed. which kcm naruto could react and dodge. Yet base guy can react and counter obitos kamui touch who kcm naruto could not react and dodge.

Guy also reacted and dodged kcm narutos attacking speed from behind which I believe is faster than base minatos attacking speed(his speed after using ftg)

So based off this guy is at least in base minatos ftg reaction speed tier and guy can sustain his speed better than minato can sustain ftg.


----------



## UchihaX28 (Jan 10, 2015)

Base Gai counters Obito's Kamui and doesn't allow Obito a chance to counterattack and absorb him.

 Base Minato struggles facing a featless young Obito.

 Do the math, Base Gai beats Base Minato.


----------



## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Jan 10, 2015)

Minato reacts to 7th gates speed no problem. The same way he did with V2 Ay, and out maneuvers him with FTG feints. Guy isn't faster than Ay without the 8th gate. No matter how what anyone says, there is nothing to back up that claim.

7 gate guy has existed long in the manga. Yet kishi specifically stated Ay as the fastest alive. Saying there was no shinobi faster than Ay alive, since minato died. That includes Guy. Tsunade was also there to affirm such a statement. And she of all people knows damn well what Guy is capable of. Guys 7th gate speed is comparable to Ays v2 no doubt, but to say guy is faster is false.

People seem to think that because Guy has superior taijutsu and striking speed, that he is somehow faster in everything. No thats not the case. Guy can never blitz Minato, he'll react everytime, and is actually quite dangerous for guy, because he risks getting marked.

Now here is where people are confused. Minato lost out to Madara in an act of desperation. While Guy pushed him back a bit. Fair enough, but that doesnt mean minato loses. Because that's not minatos fighting style, he waits for his opponents to come to him, then reacts, that's how he fights speedsters and Guy is no different. Of course minato loses out in straight up combat and taijutsu. But he's not stupid enough to do so. How is this any different with Ay? If Minato goes directly head on with Ay in combat, Minato will lose badly in taijutsu. Same thing with Guy.

Which is why being smarter and more skillful is all minato needs to win... and ftg of course. Minato has never had a problem reacting to an oppoenent that has come directly at him. Its offensively where his weakness lies (only against juubi jinchuuriki). As long as minato is on the defensive, Guy can't touch him. Guys footspeed isn't faster than Ays, so a blitz is out of the question and just igves minato the opportunity to perform the same manoever he did to ay. And Guy cannot react to things that are in his blind spot, if minato flicks a kunai past him, it doesn't matter how good and fast his combat prowess is, he will get cut down.

Using a>b>c logic isn't isn't helping anyone here. Sage minato lost out to Madara becuase he straight up can't attack fast enough, not to mention he had 1 arm. Guy is a taijutsu master, so he was more suited to battle Madara in that kind of situation. Doesn't mean a Minato under normal circumastances will engage Guy in such a way. Shadow clones and ftg markings make 7th gate irrelevant, Guy will just wear himself out.

It's like saying sage hashirama tries to fight Juubi madara in close combat/taijutsu. And madara wrecks him. By some of you peoples logic, that means Guy would beat Hashirama too.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jan 10, 2015)

Seventh Gated Guy is no way or means stronger than Minato . Not even close-he could barely defeat Kisame for christ's sake! Oh his performance against Juudara...which did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING? WHEN HE DIDN'T LAND A SINGLE HIT?


----------



## ARGUS (Jan 10, 2015)

SSMG said:


> Well base minatos best reaction speed feat is reacting to raikages top speed. which kcm naruto could react and dodge. *Yet base guy can react and counter obitos kamui touch who kcm naruto could not react and dodge.*


Except minato has already reacted to Kamui in base, 
and V2 Ay >>>>> Base Guy in terms of speed, 
and reacting to V2 Ay is a feat which is a clear indication that Minatos reflexes are far superior to base guys 
his shunshin is also superior to base guys
so at CQC, Guy gets marked and then killed 

and @Bold - nope, Guy only engaged him in CQC, he  never evaded a kamui warp at  all, 
*KCM naruto however reacted to Obitos surprise kamui attempt *

[QUOET]
Guy also reacted and dodged kcm narutos attacking speed from behind which I believe is faster than base minatos attacking speed(his speed after using ftg)[/QUOTE]
No he didnt, nothin indicates that base guy could react to anything even near KCM narutos speed, 


> So based off this guy is at least in base minatos ftg reaction speed tier and guy can sustain his speed better than minato can sustain ftg.


no he isnt, 
base guy has never reacted anything near V2 Ays level speed, which base minato did, 
minato also evaded kamui so that isnt a valid example, 
minatos shunshin is also superior to base guys, added to the fact that that his reflexes are also superior, so guys gets tagged within seconds, 
and then slammed by a rasengan, 

without the 7th gate, guy isnt beating minato, 



RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki said:


> Now here is where people are confused. *Minato lost out to Madara in an act of desperation. **While Guy pushed him back a bit.* Fair enough, but that doesnt mean minato loses. *Because that's not minatos fighting style, he waits for his opponents to come to him, then reacts, that's how he fights speedsters and Guy is no different*. Of course minato loses out in straight up combat and taijutsu. But he's not stupid enough to do so. How is this any different with Ay? If Minato goes directly head on with Ay in combat, Minato will lose badly in taijutsu. Same thing with Guy.
> 
> *Which is why being smarter and more skillful is all minato needs to win..*. and ftg of course. *Minato has never had a problem reacting to an oppoenent that has come directly at him. Its offensively where his weakness lies (only against juubi jinchuuriki). As long as minato is on the defensive, Guy can't touch him.* Guys footspeed isn't faster than Ays, so a blitz is out of the question and just igves minato the opportunity to perform the same manoever he did to ay. And Guy cannot react to things that are in his blind spot, *if minato flicks a kunai past him, it doesn't matter how good and fast his combat prowess is, he will get cut down.*
> 
> *Using a>b>c logic isn't isn't helping anyone here. Sage minato lost out to Madara becuase he straight up can't attack fast enough, not to mention he had 1 arm. Guy is a taijutsu master, so he was more suited to battle Madara in that kind of situation*. Doesn't mean a Minato under normal circumastances will engage Guy in such a way. Shadow clones and ftg markings make 7th gate irrelevant, Guy will just wear himself out.








> It's like saying sage hashirama tries to fight Juubi madara in close combat/taijutsu. And madara wrecks him. By some of you peoples logic, that means Guy would beat Hashirama too.





No it isnt, 
since hashirama and minato are too completely different types of fighters, 
minato is more or less like guy, with him relying on CQC and speed, 
whilst hashirama relies on a large defense and mid/long range battle through mokutons, 

so using the comparison betweeen their performances against juubi madara is a cleear indication from the manga that 7G guy > SM minato 
his reflexes and striking speed are well above minatos, which is what the individual needs in-order to land blows on the opponent, so minato dies,


----------



## UchihaX28 (Jan 11, 2015)

^ What?

 Base Gai avoids and pressures Obito to the point where he can't even absorb and counterattack while KCM Naruto who's faster than V2 Ei gets smacked around by Obito.

 How does that in any way indicate that Base Gai's reflexes are worse than Alive Minato's?

 Minato's performance was against a young featless Obito who clearly wasn't as proficient in using Kumai and had inferior reactions compared to War Arc Obito.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jan 11, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> ^ What?
> 
> Base Gai avoids and pressures Obito to the point where he can't even absorb and counterattack while KCM Naruto who's faster than V2 Ei gets smacked around by Obito.
> 
> How does that in any way indicate that Base Gai's reflexes are worse than Alive Minato's?


Base Guy couldn't even land a hit on Obito despite having KCM Naruto's help. Obito was playing with him the entire battle and without Kakashi and Naruto's help he'd have been kamuied.


----------



## UchihaX28 (Jan 11, 2015)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Base Guy couldn't even land a hit on Obito despite having KCM Naruto's help. Obito was playing with him the entire battle and without Kakashi and Naruto's help he'd have been kamuied.



 Except you're ignoring that clash where Base Gai had all the screen time before KCM Naruto and Kakashi actually stepped in, the moment where Obito acknowledged Base Gai's speed when he didn't acknowledge KCM Naruto's speed?

 And literally when Obito actually tried to absorb Gai, Base Gai effortlessly dodged him.

 I will post scans later if need be.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jan 11, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> Except you're ignoring that clash where Base Gai had all the screen time before KCM Naruto and Kakashi actually stepped in, the moment where Obito acknowledged Base Gai's speed when he didn't acknowledge KCM Naruto's speed?
> 
> And literally when Obito actually tried to absorb Gai, Base Gai effortlessly dodged him.
> 
> I will post scans later if need be.


Base Guy would have been ignored and KCM Naruto never USED his speed against Obito.


----------



## UchihaX28 (Jan 11, 2015)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Base Guy would have been ignored and KCM Naruto never USED his speed against Obito.



 How would Base Gai have been ignored? Can you explain what you mean by KCM Naruto never using his speed against Obito?


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 11, 2015)

SSMG said:


> Well base minatos best reaction speed feat is reacting to raikages top speed. which kcm naruto could react and dodge. Yet base guy can react and counter obitos kamui touch who kcm naruto could not react and dodge.
> 
> Guy also reacted and dodged kcm narutos attacking speed from behind which I believe is faster than base minatos attacking speed(his speed after using ftg)
> 
> So based off this guy is at least in base minatos ftg reaction speed tier and guy can sustain his speed better than minato can sustain ftg.



I wanna add that young Ei's top speed is much slower than prime Raikage Ei's top speed. Prime Raikage has feats, young Ei has no feats at all.



> Base Guy couldn't even land a hit on Obito despite having KCM Naruto's help. Obito was playing with him the entire battle and without Kakashi and Naruto's help he'd have been kamuied.



Finally. Some nonsense from SuperSaiyaMan12. 

Obito was playing with him? Where did you get that from? Proof, please.

Do you want to deny the fact that base Guy could hold his own against adult prime Obito, who is faster than base Minato according to feats? The fact Minato defeated young, featless, far below his prime Obito (and not without problems) doesnt mean anything at all.



> Seventh Gated Guy is no way or means stronger than Minato . Not even close-he could barely defeat Kisame for christ's sake! Oh his performance against Juudara...which did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING? WHEN HE DIDN'T LAND A SINGLE HIT?



AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, "barely defeat Kisame", ahahahahahaha, i loled so much. If i were you, i would have re-read the manga. Guy, in 7 Gate, defeated Kisame without difficulty. He one-shoted him, basicly. 

And looooool, its not about him doing anything to Juubidara, or landing a hit on him - its about the fact he put him on the defensive, dodged his staff and spheres, reacted to him, wasnt blitzed and was basicly in *his* speed class, while *Sage Mode* Edo Minato was blitzed in 3 shots.



> Minato reacts to 7th gates speed no problem. The same way he did with V2 Ay, and out maneuvers him with FTG feints. Guy isn't faster than Ay without the 8th gate. No matter how what anyone says, there is nothing to back up that claim.



Re-read the manga. You are embarrassing yourself with such stupid biased posts. Realy, man. 

Because there *IS* a Manga to back up that claim. Juubito, who is not as fast as Juubidara, blitzed KCM Minato and cut his arm off. Juubidara, effortlessly, cut an arm of Sage Mode Minato in 1 hit and kicked him out of the fight with another 2 hits (kicks).

But what can we see when 7 Gate Guy is trying to beat Juubidara? We can see that he is in the *same* speed class as Juubidara. He put him on the defensive, wasnt blitzed, dodged his staff and spheres and was fast enough to utilize Hirudora. Thats why 7 Gate Guy is faster than any vertion of Minato - because he is in a Juubi Jin's speed class.


----------



## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Jan 11, 2015)

ARGUS said:


> No it isnt,
> since hashirama and minato are too completely different types of fighters,
> minato is more or less like guy, with him relying on CQC and speed,
> whilst hashirama relies on a large defense and mid/long range battle through mokutons,
> ...



Except the circumstances were different. Why would Minato lunge into Madara when he knows he's no match? Because he needed to do something to stop Madara getting Obito and to somehow save his son. He already confirmed Madara stronger than Obito himself. But because he had no other option, he was forced to attack head on. Madara cannot take a Juubi jin head on, he doesn't have the physical capabilities. But what he does have is reaction and evasive speed and countering on the defensive.

In a fight between Minato and 7 gates guy. Who would Minato be trying to protect this time? No one, so he isn't going to charge in this time. He'll do what he did with Ay, he'lol mark the battlefield and he'll wait for guy to come to him. Because he knows what the gates are capable of and knows he can't win in a direct confrontation.

No Minato isn't like guy at all. He is a space time ninjutsu user who takes uses feints and kunai to confuse and then blind side attack his enemies. He doesn't go head on in taijutsu, he uses ones own speed against them. If Ay went in against Madara and did and manged to get a couple blocks out of him, would that make Ay greater than Minato.. No it wouldnt. It's because Ay is better in taijutsu and more suited against the opponent.

Nope, you're saying guy is better than Hashirama as well because Hashirama in sage mode couldn't possibly dream of doing a single thing to Madara in close combat. You say bit Hashirama has a different fighting style, well so does Minato. Did Minato mark the battle filed first? No. Did Minato go in with a clone? No. Did Minato throw a kunai past Madara with 1 hand and then attack with a rasengan in the other? No. Why... Because it was an act of desperation.  Minato had one freaking arm, yet you think he had options? He couldn't even weave signs properly any longer, so to compare a handicapped edo tensei to the 7 gates is absurd. EMS SASUKE also went head to head with pre jin no eyes Madara and lost in CQC, so that means 7th gates beats EMS Sasuke too right, by your logic.

Your clear indication that 7g guy > sm Minato is pretty narrow minded on your part. No, it's a clear indication that Guy>Minato in taijutsu and close combat. Unless Guy can blitz Minato, which he can't, he cannot win. Unless Guy is faster than Ay, he cannot win. Unless Minato tries to go head to head with Guy, he cannot win.


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 11, 2015)

> Why would Minato lunge into Madara when he knows he's no match?



<snip>. Your statements are unlogical and based on completely nothing. What can we see there? We see Minato, using his Sage Mode in order to be able to harm Juubi Jin. And we see how Juubidara blitz him. If Minato was fast enough and had fast enough reaction speed, he would have dodged Juubidara, or teleport away before Juubidara can cut his arm off and kick him out of the fight with 2 kicks. It is obvious Minato was not in his speed class. He lost his arm and got 2 hits because he couldnt react to Juubidara. Its logical, its based on Manga. You can ignore me as much as you can, but the fact is still the fact - 7 Gate Guy was much faster than SM Edo Minato. Because he was in the same speed class as Juubidara, who effortlessly blitzed Minato.

In a fight with 7 Gate Guy, Minato wont even be able to mark the battlefield. He wont be able to do anything. Because 7 Gate Guy is *that* fast. Its a Manga fact. Kishimoto made him *that* fast.

Hashirama very well reacted to Madara in close combat *without* Sage Mode. Its not like he "couldn't possibly dream of doing" - he very well could compete with Madara in close combat. 

Was Minato fast enough to mark the battlefield in that fight? No he wasnt. He doesnt have feats good enough to say he was. Was Minato fast enough to make clones? No he wasnt. Juubidara wouldnt give him an opportunity to do so.

And lol at Minato throughing kunai past Juubi Jin. Thats your fantasy right there. He cant even dream about doing that against Juubi Jin.

That handicapped Edo tensei still had 1 arm and used Sage Mode. Yet, it was clear he couldnt react to Juubidara.

7 Gate Guy cant beat EMS Sasuke only because of his Enton and probably Perfect Susanoo. 

The indication of 7 Gate Guy >>> SM Edo Minato is a right thing. You dont like it? Then you go to Kishimoto and ask him why he made 7 Gates Guy faster than SM Edo Minato. Got it? Because Kishimoto himself wrote that manga and it was obvious that 7 Gate Guy was faster than SM Edo Minato, or any vertion of Minato. <snip>



> Unless Guy can blitz Minato, which he can't, he cannot win. Unless Guy is faster than Ay, he cannot win. Unless Minato tries to go head to head with Guy, he cannot win.



<snip>


----------



## LostSelf (Jan 11, 2015)

Come on guys. Gai is not beating KCM Minato. Nor is beating Base Minato in Base either.

And Minato is no way more reflexive that Gai, who can keep up with Juudara and his own speed in 8th gate. And yes, Gai did better than Minato against Obito _in CqC_ without Hiraishin. But because Gai is way better tan Minato in CqC. The latter needs Hiraishin to fight, it's his main style. It was plain obvious how he was fodderized by Obito twice _before_ using Hiraishin where Gai was holding his own. KCM Naruto as well was failing to land hits on Obito and was as well fodderized in a two-steps maneuver, while Gai lasted longer and prevented each and every one of Obito's kamui attempts with superior stricking speed and skill.

So, Gai is better than Minato and Naruto in taijutsu. But we already knew that. And Gai can beat Minato in a Taijutsu fight in base. However, saying that he beats an unrestricted Minato in base is too much.

And as expected, Minato is becoming the new Itachi in terms of fandom.


----------



## Dominus (Jan 11, 2015)

What's with these Madara and *7th Gate* Gai comparisons. Honestly, this is how I see their fight:

[sp]


[/sp]

[sp]

[/sp]

[sp]


[/sp]

[sp]
[/sp]


----------



## Empathy (Jan 11, 2015)

_Shimon_ Gai obviously kills any incarnation of Minato, and then dies later on. I'm more interested in how people are now putting Gai above living Minato without needing to kill himself.


----------



## Esket (Jan 11, 2015)

Gai has this in the bag. As long as Minato isn't an edo then he gets that evening elephant to the face.


----------



## SSMG (Jan 11, 2015)

ARGUS said:


> Except minato has already reacted to Kamui in base,
> and V2 Ay >>>>> Base Guy in terms of speed,
> and reacting to V2 Ay is a feat which is a clear indication that Minatos reflexes are far superior to base guys
> his shunshin is also superior to base guys
> so at CQC, Guy gets marked and then killed


Yeah Minato reacted to 13 year old obitos kamui warp. But he got much better with his usage of the technique as he got older.

And no base guy reacted to obito and kcm naruto who are both faster than v2 ei therefore guy is also faster than v2 ei.
Kcm naruto is faster than raikage because it was shown and obito is faster than raikage because kcm naruto could not react and dodge his touch without outside help.. Which he could react and dodge raikage.

What are you basing that minatos shunshin is better than base guys speed? Base guys speed was faster than naruto speed when he rushes in against obito.. So I'm going to need some tangible proof of that claim. 

Minatos worst mistake would be to try and make a a cqc match. One hit from guy will put minato down.  Which with Guys speed and skill he will land in cqc



> and @Bold - nope, Guy only engaged him in CQC, he  never evaded a kamui warp at  all,
> *KCM naruto however reacted to Obitos surprise kamui attempt *


 First of all obito went in to grab guy and guy countered him. That's guy countering obitos kamui touch.
And for that naruto feat it doesn't mean anything because kakashi told him about obito being above him before we even see obito.  Every time its been just naruto vs obitos touch he was completely helpless and had to be saved by someone(2of those times by guy)




> No he didnt, nothin indicates that base guy could react to anything even near KCM narutos speed,


Except for you know.. That time Guy reacted to kcm naruto from behind...

The rest of your points to me are just repetition of your first points and have already been addressed.


----------



## Nikushimi (Jan 11, 2015)

Minato tries to warp away, but Gai blitzes where he teleports and caves his ribs in with a kick.


----------



## Trojan (Jan 11, 2015)

Either Minato wins, or it's a tie. U_U

if he wants to win, he could simply dodge him.

Link removed
and if he wants it a tie, then he face him. Minato will die, and so would Gai.

though it would be nice if Minato kept doing that with a clone, and when Gai sacrifices himself 
he gets to know it's a clone.


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 11, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Either Minato wins, or it's a tie. U_U
> 
> if he wants to win, he could simply dodge him.
> 
> ...



Guy wasnt in his full speed there. He didnt push himself from the air. And thats how he moves in 8 gates. And the fact Minato teleported there just in time is also a proof Guy wasnt in his full speed. The same with Lee throughing his Kunai and kakashi being fast enough to activate his Kamui. These shinobi cant react to Juubi Jin. 

And now, explain to me why Juubito, who is not as fast as Juubidara, effortlessly cut BM Minato's arm off and blitzed him. Explain to me why Juubidara blitzed SM Minato and cut his another arm off effortlessly. Because if he didnt have reaction speed fast enough to teleport away from Juubito and Juubidara just in time to not be hit by them, than he wont have reaction speed to teleport away from even 7 Gates Guy, who can surprise Juubidara with his speed, put him on a defensive and utilise Hirudora against him. 7 Gates Guy takes Minato's head off. 8 gates Guy can kill all vertions of Minato at the same time effortlessly. Because he can blitz someone, who can blitz any vertion of Minato. 

And do you think Minato can through Kunai with the same speed as Lee can? 

<snip>


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 11, 2015)

Hussain said:


> I assume you pulled that out of your ass?
> manga scan or never happened.



Thats logical. Show me 8 Gates Guy pushing from the air there.

And why its logical? Maybe because its nonsense that Minato could teleport there, before full speed 8 Gates Guy, who can blitz someone who can blitz Minato. Its unlogical nonsense.


----------



## SSMG (Jan 11, 2015)

Hussain you do realize Guy moved during that instaneous action you always love to cite, right? He moves noticibly closer to the viewing point. Since he moved during minatos ftg usage that means he's faster than minato and can hit him if minato tries an ftg blitz.


----------



## Trojan (Jan 11, 2015)

SSMG said:


> Hussain you do realize Guy moved during that instaneous action you always love to cite, right? He moves noticibly closer to the viewing point. Since he moved during minatos ftg usage that means he's faster than minato and can hit him if minato tries an ftg blitz.



I am honestly amazed how some people can act. When I say for example "Minato's FTG is faster than Tobirama's"

people: No, the manga and Kishi are wrong, you can't be faster than instant. 

and now it can be done. lol

- Also, even if he moved, it's barely an inch, Minato teleported twice. So, he could dodge him because
he already did in canon. I am not even making an assumption, I am stating what DID happen. lol


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 11, 2015)

Hussain said:


> So, you're the one who failed to bring forth your proof, and I am the one who lost? :rofl
> I wish I were better at translating, some poem in my head fits perfectly here. :rofl
> +
> you could take Lee's statement as a gift as well. lol
> fast shunshin



The punch itself is faster, not the speed with which he moves to his target. 

I logicaly explained why Guy wasnt in his full speed there.

And you can also take SM Minato's performance against Juubidara as a gift as well. 

fast shunshin


----------



## SSMG (Jan 11, 2015)

Hussain said:


> I am honestly amazed how some people can act. When I say for example "Minato's FTG is faster than Tobirama's"
> 
> people: No, the manga and Kishi are wrong, you can't be faster than instant.
> 
> ...



-First part of your post about tobirama is irrelevant so don't know why you brought that up.

-In fiction people can and have been faster than instant so you're wrong there.

-Guy moved a few feet actually. And it was Guy moving this distance after the first jump and before the second usage of ftg... Not moving that distance for both of his ftg usage like you just claimed so you're wrong again.

-Furthermore Guy never once tried to hit minato in the instance you're referring to so yes that is an assumption if you use that as to how a fight would go between them.


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 11, 2015)

Hussain said:


> I am honestly amazed how some people can act. When I say for example "Minato's FTG is faster than Tobirama's"
> 
> people: No, the manga and Kishi are wrong, you can't be faster than instant.
> 
> ...



Minato never, ever dodged a Juubi Jin speed class character, as Juubidara, Juubito, or 7 Gates Guy. 8 Gates Guy is even in a higher speed class. Minato stands 0 chance against 8 Gates Guy.


----------



## Trojan (Jan 11, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> The punch itself is faster, not the speed with which he moves to his target.
> 
> I logicaly explained why Guy wasnt in his full speed there.
> 
> ...


No one cares about your logic. 
fast shunshin
It was specifically stated to Gai to NOT stow down. 



SSMG said:


> -First part of your post about tobirama is irrelevant so don't know why you brought that up.
> 
> -In fiction people can and have been faster than instant so you're wrong there.
> 
> ...



Nothing really, I was just pointing out some of the hypocrisy.  
(and I don't mean you here, so don't get the wrong idea)

- I don't care how much he moved. I care that Minato teleported out before Gai could reach to him, and
that all what he needs here. 

It's even better if he uses clones to buy more time. 

- Well, that's why I said it would be tie if Minato tried to do such a foolish thing like taking on him heads on. lol



StarWanderer said:


> Minato never, ever dodged a Juubi Jin speed class character, as Juubidara, Juubito, or 7 Gates Guy. 8 Gates Guy is even in a higher speed class. Minato stands 0 chance against 8 Gates Guy.



again, I dont care about what you think. The manga is in front of you, whether you like it or not, that's irrelevant. Thank you.


----------



## SSMG (Jan 11, 2015)

Alrighty about the first points.

And since guy can move a few feet from the time minato activates ftg until he moves then if minato tries to do that in a fight against Guy, Guy can either move a few feet away before minato arrives to dodge it or move in order to get a better striking position on minato. 
Also minatos clones will get popped by a single hit from guy and minatos ftg is slower when used by a clone so they gun get popped real quick. 

Also I don't believe Guy was even going full speed there anyways.

Earlier we seen guy out speed the gudodamas in sixth gate or lower to save Kakashi. But in a faster gate(8th) he for some reason can't dodge them and needs minato to help him deal with them.

Its either inconsistent writing or guy wasn't going full speed.


----------



## RBL (Jan 11, 2015)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Seventh Gated Guy is no way or means stronger than Minato . Not even close-he could barely defeat Kisame for christ's sake! Oh his performance against Juudara...which did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING? WHEN HE DIDN'T LAND A SINGLE HIT?



he could barely defeat kisame? dafuck, gai destroyed kisame with just 1 hit, it was not even a battle.


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 11, 2015)

> again, I dont care about what you think. The manga is in front of you, whether you like it or not, that's irrelevant. Thank you.



Juubito blitzed Minato and Juubidara blitzed Minato. But at the same time, Juubidara couldnt blitz 7 Gates Guy, who pressured and surprised him with his speed. And 8 Gates Guy blitzed Juubidara.

Plus, i wanna see a proof Minato could through a kunai with the same speed as Lee can.

And i already explained why Guy wasnt moving in his full speed.

Thank you.


----------



## Trojan (Jan 11, 2015)

@SSMG

- That's really depends on his Kunais location. Minato teleported to konoha in the manga, so if he is allowed to
teleport to whereever he wants here, then those few inches that Gai could move are really meaningless in such
a huge distance.

- Tobirama's clones are slower, but nothing was stated that Minato's clones are. We know for a fact that Minato
is superior to him in FTG at least, so yeah, what applies to Tobirama does not necessarily apply to a superior user.
In addition, Gai has only 5 hits, so even if the clones were hit, that would be fine as at least they made him lose
some of his attacks in vain, no? 

- Well, that's up to you. What I know is Minato, Lee, and Gai himself agrees on that, which is what matters to me.

Leave it to Kishi for his inconsistent writing. 
he only do what the story needs regardless if it's logical or not. And even if contradicts an established fact. 
For example, in those chapters, resealing Kurama into Naruto saved his life. However, resealing him into Kushina
was stated to not have the same effect and she will die with him. 

The thing is, Kushina needed to die, and Naruto needs to stay. The same thing here, It was Gai's time to shin. lol


----------



## Trojan (Jan 11, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> Juubito blitzed Minato and Juubidara blitzed Minato. But at the same time, Juubidara couldnt blitz 7 Gates Guy, who pressured and surprised him with his speed. And 8 Gates Guy blitzed Juubidara.
> 
> Plus, i wanna see a proof Minato could through a kunai with the same speed as Lee can.
> 
> ...



JJ madara defeated Gai with one eyes. 
Zetsu defeated Madara with 2 eyes. 
Chojiro defeated Zetsu

therefore Chojiro >> full powered Madara. 


Madara dodged Tobirama. However, he did not dodge Gaara's sand. Therefore, Gaara is faster than Tobirama.
Base Lee fodderstompped Madara, who defeated Hashirama and the Gokage. Therefore, Lee is >> Hashirama and the Gokage...etc


You see where is that going to?


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 11, 2015)

Hussain said:


> @SSMG
> 
> - That's really depends on his Kunais location. Minato teleported to konoha in the manga, so if he is allowed to
> teleport to whereever he wants here, then those few inches that Gai could move are really meaningless in such
> ...



Why Minato couldnt FTG away against Juubidara and Juubito? Why he couldnt use his FTG to teleport away against characters who are inferior to 8 Gates Guy in speed? Thats simple - because he didnt have reaction speed fast enough to do that. 7 Gates Guy is a Juubi Jin's speed class shinobi, or even a slightly faster, since he surprised Juubidara with his speed and pressured him, put him on a defensive. Minato wont be able to teleport anywhere in a fight against 7 Gates Guy. Against 8 Gates Guy, Minato will be killed.

Maybe because her life forse was not as powerfull as that of Naruto, who has Asura's chakra inside him?


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 11, 2015)

Hussain said:


> JJ madara defeated Gai with one eyes.
> Zetsu defeated Madara with 2 eyes.
> Chojiro defeated Zetsu
> 
> ...



He didnt defeat Guy - Guy was suffering gates side effects and effects of Hirudora, which hit him as well.

Zetsu stabbed him from behind when Madara didnt expect that at all, since he thought Zetsu was his will. Dont know why you decided to bring that up.

Get your facts straight before bringing them here. 

He did not dodge gaara's sand because he was in a free fall. You know, gravitation and all of that... Plus the fact Madara cant fly... Its not a surprise he didnt dodge it.

Base Lee never stomped anyone. It was Edo Madara, not the same Madara who "defeated" Hashirama (in fact, Edo Hashirama defeated Edo Madara). And Edo Madara was attached to Juubi. he was controling The Juubi at that moment. Its not a surprise Lee did something like that.

Yes, i see. I see myself countering every single one of your posts here. Because your statements are completely wrong.  

Come on, bring it on. Give me more to counter, lol.


----------



## SSMG (Jan 11, 2015)

Hussain said:


> @SSMG
> 
> - That's really depends on his Kunais location. Minato teleported to konoha in the manga, so if he is allowed to
> teleport to whereever he wants here, then those few inches that Gai could move are really meaningless in such
> ...



Well I'm referring to in a fight. So like say how minato placed a kunai to madaras feet and warped in.. If he did that to guy than guy could counter him like madara did or dodge if need be.

But yeah in a race minato would win but in combat guys speed is more useful because he moves and follows through at that speed.

I believe it was just stated that using clones slows down the ftg usage without stating it being in regards to minato nor tobirama.
 And guy doesn't onlybhave five hits with 8th Gate. He used more than five hits on panel againstbmadara and then had an off screen fight where he used EE again. Also how many clones has minato used at once?

No minato said hit him no matter what. He never mentioned going faster nor slowing down.

N lol yeah I agree there about kishi n his shitty writing. But if we say its inconsistent writing we get a really messed up speed tiering.

It'd go 6 gate guy>\=\< minatos ftg> /=\<8th gate guy>7 gate Guy> sixth gate guy.

So you can see why we shouldn't use it being a ln in consistency as an excuse. If there's another viable option(like saying guy wasn't full speed) then we should go with that. We should only use inconsistency when there is no other explanation like your example.


----------



## UchihaX28 (Jan 11, 2015)

Hussain said:


> JJ madara defeated Gai with one eyes.
> Zetsu defeated Madara with 2 eyes.
> Chojiro defeated Zetsu
> 
> therefore Chojiro >> full powered Madara.



 This is a pathetic argument honestly. If this is your desperate attempt to disprove their arguments, then that's just sad. JJ Madara did defeat Gai, but that was due to the Gates effect setting in. 7th Gates Gai still managed to pressure Madara and proved to be in the same speed tier. That same Madara ripped off SM Minato's arms despite having Hiraishin which is instant teleportation which implies SM Minato's reactions are far below 7th Gate Gai's reactions.




> Madara dodged Tobirama. However, he did not dodge Gaara's sand. Therefore, Gaara is faster than Tobirama.
> Base Lee fodderstompped Madara, who defeated Hashirama and the Gokage. Therefore, Lee is >> Hashirama and the Gokage...etc



 Madara admitted to Zetsu about being reckless. It simply doesn't matter anyways. Madara charged in before the Shukaku attacked and Madara believed it to be no threat, similar how he didn't force the Juubi to dodge Bijuudamas from BM Naruto and Hachibi b/c it wasn't necessary. Why dodge something when you believe there is no effect? Madara was at god-like status, no point dodging somebody that you literally trashed earlier at an inferior level.




> You see where is that going to?



 No, not with your pathetic argument. You're an intelligent poster, but your argument is flawed.


----------



## sabre320 (Jan 12, 2015)

If gai starts the match in 8th gate and minato does not have markings prepped hegets blitzd plain and simple he has to exploit the opening of gai going into gates by making clones and making them spread markings all round then teleporting to keep distance and the only version of minato i see doing that is bm minato...even if base minato teleports to a marker evening elephant aoe covers most of the initial markings so ya only bm minato has a shot here unless gai starts in 8th gate..


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 12, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> If gai starts the match in 8th gate and minato does not have markings prepped hegets blitzd plain and simple he has to exploit the opening of gai going into gates by making clones and making them spread markings all round then teleporting to keep distance and the only version of minato i see doing that is bm minato...so ya only bm minato has a shot here unless gai starts in 8th gate..



You will most likely ignore me, but anyway.

Minato wont be able to teleport away, even if he makes 1000000 markings all over the world. He doesnt have reaction speed to activate FTG technique just in time to dodge 7, or 8 Gates Guy.  And the reason why he wont make any clones is the same. 

Why he couldnt teleport away just in time while being in KCM in a confrontation against Juubito, who, by the way, cut his arm off? Because he didnt have reaction speed to activate FTG to dodge Juubito.

Why he couldnt teleport away against Juubidara, who blitzed him in 3 moves, cutting his arm off in the process? Because he didnt have reaction speed to do so. He couldnt use his FTG technique just in time to dodge Juubidara.

8 Gates Guy is many times faster than Juubi Jins. He is in another speed, reaction speed, reflexes speed class. Because he can blitz Juubi Jin. 

So it is pretty logical that 8 Gates Guy kills any vertion of Minato with 1 hit, no matter how many markings there are. And Minato wont be fast enough to use clones. Am i right? 

Even 7 Gates Guy could surprise Juubidara with his speed, put him on a defensive and use Hirudora. Because even 7 Gates Guy is in a Juubi Jins speed class.

Do your math.


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 12, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> If gai starts the match in 8th gate and minato does not have markings prepped hegets blitzd plain and simple he has to exploit the opening of gai going into gates by making clones and making them spread markings all round then teleporting to keep distance and the only version of minato i see doing that is bm minato...even if base minato teleports evening elephant aoe covers most of the initial markings so ya only bm minato has a shot here unless gai starts in 8th gate..



And realy - where do you get that from? Is there any proof Minato can teleport anything with Guiding Thunder techique? He could teleport Kurama's Bijuu Dama and Juubidama, slowed down by 8 Tails. Both of these attacks are not as fast as Evening Elephant, or Night Moth, or even Guy's 7 Gates  charge and attacks.


----------



## Trojan (Jan 12, 2015)

> [=StarWanderer;52663758]He didnt defeat Guy - Guy was suffering gates side effects and effects of Hirudora, which hit him as well.


Which means he defeated him. Gai was going to die in the first time, and Lee saved him. He was going to die again, and Naruto saved him. 


> Zetsu stabbed him from behind when Madara didnt expect that at all, since he thought Zetsu was his will. Dont know why you decided to bring that up.


No one cares. He was defeated by a hand stab. Does that mean Zetsu's arm is stronger than Gai's attacks? 




> He did not dodge gaara's sand because he was in a free fall. You know, gravitation and all of that... Plus the fact Madara cant fly... Its not a surprise he didnt dodge it.



Do you mean like how Sasuke dodged B midair? 


> Base Lee never stomped anyone. It was Edo Madara, not the same Madara who "defeated" Hashirama (in fact, Edo Hashirama defeated Edo Madara). And Edo Madara was attached to Juubi. he was controling The Juubi at that moment. Its not a surprise Lee did something like that.


He cut him in half, yeah, he stomped him. 




StarWanderer said:


> Forging on = going full speed?



No, it means go at medium speed. 
your tries of playing with words and those stuff are pitiful. 


> =SSMG;52663812]Well I'm referring to in a fight. So like say how minato placed a kunai to madaras feet and warped in.. If he did that to guy than guy could counter him like madara did or dodge if need be.



Well, yeah. Gai's physical speed is way beyond Minato's, that is obvious. 


> But yeah in a race minato would win but in combat guys speed is more useful because he moves and follows through at that speed.


Yes, indeed. I did not deny that. 



> I believe it was just stated that using clones slows down the ftg usage without stating it being in regards to minato nor tobirama.


Tobirama is the one who stated that. We know for a fact that Minato's level with that same jutsu is above Tobirama's level.


> 飛雷神互瞬回しの術 Hiraishin Goshun Mawashi no Jutsu/
> 
> 
> Ninjutsu
> ...





> And guy doesn't onlybhave five hits with 8th Gate. He used more than five hits on panel againstbmadara and then had an off screen fight where he used EE again. Also how many clones has minato used at once?


He used exactly 5 on-panel. It's doubtful that he used this jutsu again off-panel imo since it was stated that it's only 5 steps. As for Minato, we saw him using one clone, while maintaining the barrier. Though, unlike the Senju bros he did not state that it's his limit. 




> No minato said hit him no matter what. He never mentioned going faster nor slowing down.


I already posted Viz scan. Here it is again
Link removed


> N lol yeah I agree there about kishi n his shitty writing. But if we say its inconsistent writing we get a really messed up speed tiering.
> 
> It'd go 6 gate guy>\=\< minatos ftg> /=\<8th gate guy>7 gate Guy> sixth gate guy.
> 
> So you can see why we shouldn't use it being a ln in consistency as an excuse. If there's another viable option(like saying guy wasn't full speed) then we should go with that. We should only use inconsistency when there is no other explanation like your example.


Well, Gai can't possible be faster than FTG in no way, shape or form. He is however faster than Minato's shunshin and striking speed. 

If anything, It's Minato who has been held back. When Minato uses his FTG usually, it's already a direct hit. 



> =NarutoX28;52664109]This is a pathetic argument honestly. If this is your desperate attempt to disprove their arguments, then that's just sad. JJ Madara did defeat Gai, but that was due to the Gates effect setting in. 7th Gates Gai still managed to pressure Madara and proved to be in the same speed tier. That same Madara ripped off SM Minato's arms despite having Hiraishin which is instant teleportation which implies SM Minato's reactions are far below 7th Gate Gai's reactions.


or really?
I don't care about the side effects, to each jutsu its rule. Gai wouldn't stand a chance without the 8th Gate, so you should as well takes it with its bros and cons. The only reason it is that powerful is because of the side effect, which is a fair game here. I don't know why are you trying to ignore that side. 

Madara did attack Minato. However, he did NOT attack Gai for PnJ and just went backword. By your logic Sakura is also faster than Sasuke because she did hit Kaguya, a stronger one than the one who was throwing Sasuke as a trash each time he tries to hit her.  



> Madara admitted to Zetsu about being reckless. It simply doesn't matter anyways. Madara charged in before the Shukaku attacked and Madara believed it to be no threat, similar how he didn't force the Juubi to dodge Bijuudamas from BM Naruto and Hachibi b/c it wasn't necessary. Why dodge something when you believe there is no effect? Madara was at god-like status, no point dodging somebody that you literally trashed earlier at an inferior level.


Yeah, because he had Hashi's healing ability, and guess what? He had it against Tobirama as well.  




> No, not with your pathetic argument. You're an intelligent poster, but your argument is flawed.



my logic is flawed because I posted that scan that did happen in the manga and people try to dismiss it no matter what with their imaginary excuses that were never mentioned even once? 

I can simply say that Minato was not using his full speed when he attacked madara because he did dodge Gai who was shitting on Madara, no? 





Esket said:


> ^ Hussain chooses Minato no matter what argument there is. It could be Minato one-armed, one FTG kunai vs Kaguya and he would probably still say Minato.



No, I won't. 
I am stating what the manga showed. It's not my fault that Minato's haters are being delusional and ignoring what we have seen on-panel.  

they can act that this scan never happened all they want, but it DID happen. Plain simple.


----------



## Arles Celes (Jan 12, 2015)

Well, if Minato runs away to his home then Guy dies to the Gates.

If Minato stays and engages him then he loses.

Minato wouldn't need KCM, much less BM if he already was god tier and capable of matching people like Juubi Jins or a 8th Gate user.

Dunno about 7th Gate as Minato was much more hyped than Kisame but then again the fight between Kisame and 7th Gate Guy was a complete stomp in Guy's favor.

If Kishi wrote it though I doubt he would make a hokage lose to a holding back Guy.


----------



## sabre320 (Jan 12, 2015)

Arles Celes said:


> Well, if Minato runs away to his home then Guy dies to the Gates.
> 
> If Minato stays and engages him then he loses.
> 
> ...



Thats it isnt it noones arguing about minato matching the godtiers they are saying he teleports to markers to evade certain death if he chooses to enage in a physical confrontation..


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 12, 2015)

> Which means he defeated him. Gai was going to die in the first time, and Lee saved him. He was going to die again, and Naruto saved him.



Well, the only issue was his stamina in 7 Gates. That was the main reason of why he lost the fight. But it was still very impressive, since Guy proved that, in 7 Gates, he is in the same speed class as Juubi Jin.



> No one cares. He was defeated by a hand stab. Does that mean Zetsu's arm is stronger than Gai's attacks?



That doesnt count because he attacked him from behind and Juubidara didnt expect that.

Or do you think you will be better in a fight compared to some guy because you hit him in the back of his head with an unexpected highkick from behind? Thats nonsense, dont you think?

We can speculate on it for a long time - why Zetsu stabbed him. Still, we are talking not about his punches strength (and they are definetely strong enough to knock Minato out) but more about his speed compared to Minato's speed.



> Do you mean like how Sasuke dodged B midair?



Sasuke could dodge a large AoE attack from Bee in mid air? Show me that.



> He cut him in half, yeah, he stomped him.



1. He had Kurama's cloak at that time.
2. Madara was controlling the Juubi. he was attached to Juubi.

Thats why he couldnt dodge his kick.



> No, it means go at medium speed.
> your tries of playing with words and those stuff are pitiful.



You made a statement. And it is up to you to prove Minato told him to go full speed. because, from what we see in Manga, he didnt. Unless you can bring a proof forging on = going full speed. I am not super-knowledgable on English. And you made a statement. Bring here some proofs.



> Well, yeah. Gai's physical speed is way beyond Minato's, that is obvious.



Yeah, and thats the reason why Minato wont be able to FTG away, or dodge his attacks, or react to him. if Guy can surprise with his speed and be on par with someone who blitzed Minato in 3 moves, than, well... Yeah, 7 Gates Guy is much faster and will dominate Minato in short time.



> He used exactly 5 on-panel. It's doubtful that he used this jutsu again off-panel imo since it was stated that it's only 5 steps. As for Minato, we saw him using one clone, while maintaining the barrier. Though, unlike the Senju bros he did not state that it's his limit.



He actually punched Juubidara into the ground before 5 Evening Elephants. but whatever...
Minato wont even be fast enough to make clones. I dont know why are you bringing that up. Even 7 gates Guy can rush up to Juubidara in a moment and surprise him with his speed. 8 Gates Guy takes Minato's head off before he can react to Guy.



> I already posted Viz scan. Here it is again
> Link removed



Again, forging on = going full speed? Enlight me, oh english master hussain. Bring here proofs.



> Well, Gai can't possible be faster than FTG in no way, shape or form. He is however faster than Minato's shunshin and striking speed.
> 
> If anything, It's Minato who has been held back. When Minato uses his FTG usually, it's already a direct hit.



You dont get it, do you?

Its not about the FTG speed. Its about Minato's own reaction speed to use it just in time so he can avoid hits from Guy. He couldnt teleport away in a fight against Juubito and lost his arm. Oh, that wasnt even a fight, realy. Also, Minato couldnt teleport away in a blitz with Juubidara, who cut his arm off and kicked him away 2 times. Why? Again - didnt have fast enough reaction speed to teleport away. 

7 Gates Guy is *in the same* speed class as Juubidara, or Juubito. Probably even slightly *faster*, vecause he surprised Juubidara with his rush speed and pressured him. 7 Gates Guy already has the speed to blitz Minato without any difficulty. 8 Gates Guy can blitz Juubi Jins. he eats any vertion of Minato on breakfest.



> or really?
> I don't care about the side effects, to each jutsu its rule. Gai wouldn't stand a chance without the 8th Gate, so you should as well takes it with its bros and cons. The only reason it is that powerful is because of the side effect, which is a fair game here. I don't know why are you trying to ignore that side.
> 
> Madara did attack Minato. However, he did NOT attack Gai for PnJ and just went backword. By your logic Sakura is also faster than Sasuke because she did hit Kaguya, a stronger one than the one who was throwing Sasuke as a trash each time he tries to hit her.



It is obvious 7 Gates Guy will blitz Minato without any problem. Its a Manga fact. 7 Gates Guy rushed so fast he surprised Juubidara with his speed and pressured him. That Juubidara i am talking about blitzed Minato in 3 hits. Effortlessly. 7 Gates Guy speedblitz Minato with no problem at all.

And Sakura attacked her unexpectidly, while Naruto and Sasuke, two speed demons, were also attacking her. Thats not a speed feat at all. 



> my logic is flawed because I posted that scan that did happen in the manga and people try to dismiss it no matter what with their imaginary excuses that were never mentioned even once?
> 
> I can simply say that Minato was not using his full speed when he attacked madara because he did dodge Gai who was shitting on Madara, no?



What was the sense for him to not use his full speed against Juubidara, or Juubito? To lose his arms because his teeth were so cool and shine while holding kunai? It was a sense for Guy to slow down to gather a chakra for the punch and to not hit the black sphere that could negate anything it touches, except Senjutsu. 




> I am stating what the manga showed. It's not my fault that Minato's haters are being delusional and ignoring what we have seen on-panel.



Juubito cut his arm off on-panel. Juubidara cut his another arm on-panel. Unstable Juubito kicked him on-panel. All those things were on-panel, in Manga. Its not my fault Minato's fanboys are being delusional and ignoring what we have seen on-panel.


----------



## Trojan (Jan 12, 2015)

@StarWanderer

I have already countered your arguments, and honestly debating you about Minato is a waste of time. 
As for B and Sasuke, you can go back to their fight.


----------



## Trojan (Jan 12, 2015)

Arles Celes said:


> Well, if Minato runs away to his home then Guy dies to the Gates.
> 
> If Minato stays and engages him then he loses.
> 
> ...



It was not really a stomp, and Kisame was not even using his sword. Here, unlike the battle with Kisame, will be against Gai since his AT WILL get redirected via the S/T Barrier.


----------



## Icegaze (Jan 12, 2015)

<snip>
gai absolutely and utterly baby shakes with negative difficulty 
this is the difference between jiraiya and konohamaru fighting 

gai moves in 8 gates and murders it doesnt matter how many kunai minato decides to have or what version of minato this is

hirashin is instant speed, nothing else that minato has can compete in speed with gai who can within the battlefield get as close to minato as many times as possible 

8 gai blitz juudara
juudara blitz minato, could not be simpler


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 12, 2015)

Hussain said:


> @StarWanderer
> 
> I have already countered your arguments, and honestly debating you about Minato is a waste of time.
> As for B and Sasuke, you can go back to their fight.



You didnt counter me, at all. 

As for B and Sasuke, you could bring scans here.


----------



## Trojan (Jan 12, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> hussain and its usual trolling dont listen to it people



I see salt. 

it surpasses the Dead Sea. 

@star

the Internet I have currently is extremely slow. I won't look the chapters up for you. 
Whether you believe it or not, it's none of my business. 

B was using V1, and attacked Sasuke, the latter dodged it midair, and B said only A did that
before him.


----------



## Icegaze (Jan 12, 2015)

i confirm the last part of troll hussain post about B and A 
yes only A had dodged bee V1 before sasuke 

still though 8 gate being able to dance circles round juudara heavily implies minato gets murdered off the bat

what people dont get is yes his hirashin is faster than anything gai is capable of, 

everythign else that minato has is soooooo much slower than gai. 

minato wont even be able to attack gai without getting slapped away 

juudara didnt react to minato hirashin moving from point A to B 

what he reacted to and trolled was minato much slower physical speed


----------



## Icegaze (Jan 12, 2015)

minato cant win is what am saying 
suggesting otherwise is trolling 
how he gonna win
he cannot touch gai
any attempt at doing that means he dies laughably

anything short of minato looses horribly is trolling. if i can beat u and there is no way u can beat me by definition i win


----------



## sabre320 (Jan 12, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> i confirm the last part of troll hussain post about B and A
> yes only A had dodged bee V1 before sasuke
> 
> still though 8 gate being able to dance circles round juudara heavily implies minato gets murdered off the bat
> ...



UMmm... ice everyones saying minatos best chance is using hirashin to evade gais attack and not even think about initiating a physical confrontation is suicide basically teleport for his life till gates effects kick in..


----------



## Icegaze (Jan 12, 2015)

yh thats still a none sense tactic. might as well say in any obito match, he uses kamui and escapes to box land till his enemy gets bored or dies from trying to find him. 
no one does such in a battle situation 

regardless, in order to escape with hirashin minato would need to have them already on the field cuz lord knows if gai starts in 8 gates minato doesnt have the physical speed to throw a kunai therefore he dies off the bat


----------



## Trojan (Jan 12, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> minato cant win is what am saying
> suggesting otherwise is trolling
> how he gonna win
> he cannot touch gai
> ...



pfff, which is what I am saying, he only can teleport to save his life. If he actually tried to fight he will get stomped. Though, theoretically, Gai is the one who can't win because he is going to die in all cases. So the best he can dream of is a tie.


----------



## sabre320 (Jan 12, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> yh thats still a none sense tactic. might as well say in any obito match, he uses kamui and escapes to box land till his enemy gets bored or dies from trying to find him.
> no one does such in a battle situation
> 
> regardless, in order to escape with hirashin minato would need to have them already on the field cuz lord knows if gai starts in 8 gates minato doesnt have the physical speed to throw a kunai therefore he dies off the bat



hence why i said his only shot is the opening while gai is going into gates and make clones to spread out markings if gai starts with gates open with no markings its a blitz plain and simple..actually evading attacks with ftg is quite normal for minato and being a genius who analyzed kamuis weakness in a min he should realize his only chance is to teleport the fk away..till gates wear gai down..the gates only weakness..


----------



## Altair21 (Jan 12, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> Don't ask me. *Saw several ones saying Minato was faster.*
> 
> *Location:* Gaikage and fangirls vs Juudara.
> *Distance:* 50 meters.
> ...



He is faster. Nothing is going to beat teleportation. If they were to race and Minato had a mark placed at the finish line then he'd get there first. This doesn't in anyway mean Minato is going to beat 8th gate Guy in a fight though.

The difference between them comes in their attack speed and Guy is so far above Minato in that regard it's like the difference between heaven and earth.


----------



## ShadowReaper (Jan 12, 2015)

Even BM Minato will get horribly stomped.

8th gate Guy is close to EoS Naruto and Sasuke in terms of strength.


----------



## Hachibi (Jan 12, 2015)

Did this thread needed 5 pages.

Also Dominus solo'd the discussion between Juudara and 7th Gate Gai.


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 12, 2015)

Dominus said:


> What's with these Madara and *7th Gate* Gai comparisons. Honestly, this is how I see their fight:
> 
> [sp]
> 
> ...



Kakashi wasnt all out on Sasuke, unlike Juubidara. Kakashi defeated Sasuke by himself, while Guy was defeated only because of Gates side effects. Nobody could do the same in a fight against Juubi Jin, plus it was obvious Juubidara was surprised by his *speed*.

We cant realy compare those two.


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 12, 2015)

> the Internet I have currently is extremely slow. I won't look the chapters up for you.
> Whether you believe it or not, it's none of my business.
> 
> B was using V1, and attacked Sasuke, the latter dodged it midair, and B said only A did that
> before him.



His attacks were AoE? And did Sasuke use his sword to dodge him?


----------



## Dominus (Jan 12, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> Kakashi wasnt all out on Sasuke, unlike Juubidara. Kakashi defeated Sasuke by himself, while Guy was defeated only because of Gates side effects. Nobody could do the same in a fight against Juubi Jin, plus it was obvious Juubidara was surprised by his *speed*.
> 
> We cant realy compare those two.



You can see that Kakashi was surprised by Sasuke more than once as well. Madara wasn't going all out either, if he had he would have erased Gai from existence along with everyone else on the battlefield. Madara is tiers and tiers above 7th Gate Gai.


----------



## Trojan (Jan 12, 2015)

Who cares AOE or not? It's about moving in the air.
Madara couldn't dodge A's punch either.

and in top of my head now, if you go to watch Naruto's movie, the last tower, Naruto did the same thing at dodging
the attacks. I am not sure if this is the first anime/manga you have seen in your life.  

and damn Dominus! I wish I could rep you!


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 12, 2015)

Dominus said:


> You can see that Kakashi was surprised by Sasuke more than once as well. Madara wasn't going all out either, if he had he would have erased Gai from existence along with everyone else on the battlefield. Madara is tiers and tiers above 7th Gate Gai.



Madara was all out on 7 Gates Guy. There is no reason to think otherwise. Madara just couldnt use his various techniques because he was pressed in close combat by Guys speed. 

It was perfectly seen that Kakashi wasnt all out on Sasuke. And he defeated him eventualy thanks to his own abilities. Juubidara couldnt beat Guy untill he used Hirudora, was hit by its AoE blast and suffered from Gates side effects. It was clear 7 Gate Guy was in the same speed class as Juubidara.



> Who cares AOE or not? It's about moving in the air.
> Madara couldn't dodge A's punch either.
> 
> and in top of my head now, if you go to watch Naruto's movie, the last tower, Naruto did the same thing at dodging
> ...



I read it. Madara wont be able to dodge Gaara's sand while being in a free fall already, like Sasuke. Because he was in a free fall when Gaara attacked him. His sand attack was AoE, so Madara wont be able to dodge it by spinning around. It will be impossible. And we know Madara couldnt fly at that moment. 

So dont compare those feats. They have almost nothing in common.

And i'll provide Manga pages here so you can see it by yourself: Kakashi was trying to avoid CQC risks
Kakashi was trying to avoid CQC risks

And the fact *EDO* Madara reacted to Ei's top speed and blocked his punch is already very impressive.


----------



## Dominus (Jan 12, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> Madara was all out on 7 Gates Guy. There is no reason to think otherwise. Madara just couldnt use his various techniques because he was pressed in close combat by Guys speed.
> 
> It was perfectly seen that Kakashi wasnt all out on Sasuke. And he defeated him eventualy thanks to his own abilities. Juubidara couldnt beat Guy untill he used Hirudora, was hit by its AoE blast and suffered from Gates side effects. It was clear 7 Gate Guy was in the same speed class as Juubidara



By the same logic I can say 12 year old Sasuke is in the same speed class as adult Kakashi. And where was it stated that Gai lost because of the side effects of the gates?


----------



## SSMG (Jan 12, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Well, yeah. Gai's physical speed is way beyond Minato's, that is obvious.
> 
> Yes, indeed. I did not deny that.
> 
> ...



If guys physical speed is above minatos he's gunna do what juubidara did to minato when minato tried ftg'ing to him.

Cool.

Tobirama was talking to minato when he stated that in regards to them using thebjutsu. Minato did not dismiss what tobirama said and went along with tobirama plan. If minato didn't suffer from the effect then minato could have just used a clone to do so.

Umm Guy used six on panel first of all. And your opinion is wrong once again Hussain.. Madara was visibly beat up with battle wounds after the off panel fight meaning guy got more licks on him. But all Guy would need is one hit for the one clone minato has been shown to produce. Bit that was Edo tensei bm minato. We have no manga evidence that base minato can make a clone at all.

Nothing in your scan says anything about going as fast as possible.

Why can't he? Because you say so? Well you'd be wrong again.


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 12, 2015)

Dominus said:


> By the same logic I can say 12 year old Sasuke is in the same speed class as adult Kakashi. And where was it stated that Gai lost because of the side effects of the gates?



No you cant. Kakashi wasnt at war and wasnt trying to kill Sasuke. In fact, it wasnt even a fight at all - it was an exam where Sasuke was trying to grab his bells. if Kakashi wanted to kill Sasuke, he would have done it easily.

As for the strange logic you wanna apply here, well, its strange. Juubidara wanted to do with Guy the same he did to Minato, but couldnt. There is nothing to suggest otherwise. If he was faster, he would have finished Guy as easily as he blitzed SM Edo Minato. 7 Gates Guy *was* in Juubi Jins speed class.

Well, can you give me at least 1 example of Juubidara defeating 7 Gates Guy by his own abilities? No you cant. Because it never happened. Guy utilised Hirudora and Juubidara blocked it with his staff. It has large AoE and Gates have side effects. 

If you think its Madara who broke his arm and ribs, show me at least one example of Juubidara landing a hit on 7 Gates Guy.


----------



## Dominus (Jan 12, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> No you cant. Kakashi wasnt at war and wasnt trying to kill Sasuke. In fact, it wasnt even a fight at all - it was an exam where Sasuke was trying to grab his bells. if Kakashi wanted to kill Sasuke, he would have done it easily.
> 
> As for the strange logic you wanna apply here, well, its strange. Juubidara wanted to do with Guy the same he did to Minato, but couldnt. There is nothing to suggest otherwise. If he was faster, he would have finished Guy as easily as he blitzed SM Edo Minato. 7 Gates Guy *was* in Juubi Jins speed class.



Kakashi couldn't do the same thing to Sasuke that he did to Naruto. That doesn't mean Sasuke is in the same speed class as Kakashi.



> Well, can you give me at least 1 example of Juubidara defeating 7 Gates Guy by his own abilities? No you cant. Because it never happened. Guy utilised Hirudora and Juubidara blocked it with his staff. It has large AoE and Gates have side effects.
> 
> If you think its Madara who broke his arm and ribs, show me at least one example of Juubidara landing a hit on 7 Gates Guy.



In other words, you made it up.


----------



## Kyu (Jan 12, 2015)

Yeah...Juubi Jin Madara being incapable of fighting off 7th Gated Gai in close quarters sounds fucking silly - especially when he reacts to 8th Gated Gai's initial punch a chapter er so later.


----------



## LostSelf (Jan 12, 2015)

Dominus said:


> Kakashi couldn't do the same thing to Sasuke that he did to Naruto. That doesn't mean Sasuke is in the same speed class as Kakashi.
> 
> 
> 
> In other words, you made it up.



But it means that Sasuke was superior to Naruto. If we follow the example. Minato being Naruto, Gai being Sasuke and Madara being Kakashi, then Naruto/Minato couldn't even manage to surprise Madara/Kakashi with Kage Bunshins/Gaara's sand (?), while Sasuke/Gai managed to surprise Madara/Kakashi because he was superior .


----------



## Dominus (Jan 12, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> But it means that Sasuke was superior to Naruto. If we follow the example. Minato being Naruto, Gai being Sasuke and Madara being Kakashi, then Naruto/Minato couldn't even manage to surprise Madara/Kakashi with Kage Bunshins/Gaara's sand (?), while Sasuke/Gai managed to surprise Madara/Kakashi because he was superior .



Sasuke and Gai performed better because they had better distractions (Sasuke-that trap and Gai-the dust from using the 7th Gate) and they are also faster (physically). I think that Gai is better suited for fighting Madara than Minato (both senjutsu and taijutsu work but Gai is a taijutsu specialist and Minato isn't very skilled in senjutsu) while Sasuke was clearly above Naruto back then.


----------



## LostSelf (Jan 12, 2015)

Madara couldn't have been surprised actually, because he was a sensor from both, Juubi Jin and Hashirama's cells.

I actually don't think that Madara cannot handle Gai in the 7th gate nor that Gai is as fast as Madara in that mode. But he clearly had enough speed (at least in my eyes) to give him a very hard surprise, as Madara's eye dictates.


----------



## ARGUS (Jan 12, 2015)

Claiming tht madara was going easy on guy is a piss poor of an excuse to say that his reflexes and striking speed are inferior to minatos 

His performance against madara takes a steamy hot dump on what SM minato did 
Guy clearly attacked him quick enough and had the reflexes to spar against madara for a noticeable amount of time, to land his blows and prevent himself from getting killed 

Whereas sm minato got clowned and lost his arm the instant he attempted to attack 
Heck it wasn't even a battle when he got spanked within a second 

The manga made it blatantly clear that guys skill in CQC as well as reflexes and striking speed (which is what a person needs to land their blows) are well well above SM Minatos, so base minato is clearly garbaged. 

No amount of excuse is helping minato here, so he gets mid diffd


----------



## Trojan (Jan 12, 2015)

Just like how it's a pathetic excuse to downplay Minato's feat of outpacing 8th Gate Gai.  
Or how people say Madara went easy on Minato when he kicked him to downplay his durability feat
and so on and so forth with almost all of his other feats. 

for example:
1- Minato was using Kurama's chakra to teleport the Juubi's TBB, even though even the blind can see that he was in pace.
2- Minato not cutting the roots of Madara's attack, even though he stated so.
3- He can't seal Bijuu/ET without SF, even though B stated that the 4 symbol seal is superior to his seal. 

..etc

in this battle anyway, at worst case scenario it's a tie because Gai would die. Even though I honestly doubt that the EE would effect
Kurama's avatar even if it hits him.


----------



## Trojan (Jan 13, 2015)

I think it's funny how when Minato uses his FTG attack, it is usually a direct hit. However, when it came to madara, that just changed, and he for some reason, just had to appear that way (Even though it is a fucking amazing panel). :rofl

It's even funnier, how he was able to save the Kid and Sasuke from Obito before the Gedu-dama could reach their heads from an extremely close distance, and even stop Madara's Gedu-damas before they could done any damage to him at all..  and yet he got hit by them. lol

oh well, he can't have a rest from Kishi I suppose...  
that's why he left to Pokemon world.


----------



## Trojan (Jan 13, 2015)

btw, before I try to sleep



> The manga made it blatantly clear that guys skill in CQC as well as reflexes and *striking speed *(which is what a person needs to land their blows) are well well above SM Minatos, so base minato is clearly garbaged.



@Bold
Minato's striking speed in BASE is faster than Kamui, the same Kamui that Madara couldn't do jackshit to it.. The same jutsu that Minato defeated as in the previes scans of him owning Obito.  

I am telling ya, there is some serious PnJ against Minato. U_U
Kishi hates him that much! 
he has been nerfing the fuck out of him since the battle started. lol


----------



## UchihaX28 (Jan 13, 2015)

Hussain said:


> btw, before I try to sleep
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 Except Kamui was stated to be slower than Madara's actual striking speed which is why Obito and Kakashi duped him in the first place by using Kamui in unison.

 Also, nice ignoring details. I can honestly see why people accuse you of trolling.



 Madara Striking Speed >> Obito's Kamui.

 Also, no surprise Minato's Hiraishin in conjunction with Kakashi's Kamui to set up the kunai is going to be faster than Obito's Kunai. Instant transportation is god-like.

 If you're talking about Base Minato vs. Obito, that fight was a joke. That Obito was a young, featless Obito, not War Arc Obito.


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 13, 2015)

> Kakashi couldn't do the same thing to Sasuke that he did to Naruto. That doesn't mean Sasuke is in the same speed class as Kakashi.



Yeah, especially when Kakashi wasnt all out and wasnt even fighting him.



> In other words, you made it up.



Dude, realy - you are trying to deny a Manga fact. It is obvious Guy was in the same speed class.

Guy surprised him with his speed, pressured him and was fast enough to use Hirudora.



> Sasuke and Gai performed better because they had better distractions (Sasuke-that trap and Gai-the dust from using the 7th Gate) and they are also faster (physically). I think that Gai is better suited for fighting Madara than Minato (both senjutsu and taijutsu work but Gai is a taijutsu specialist and Minato isn't very skilled in senjutsu) while Sasuke was clearly above Naruto back then.



Yeah, better suited because he is just as fast, or slightly faster than Juubidara. Manga fact.



> Just like how it's a pathetic excuse to downplay Minato's feat of outpacing 8th Gate Gai.
> Or how people say Madara went easy on Minato when he kicked him to downplay his durability feat
> and so on and so forth with almost all of his other feats.
> 
> ...



Minato never outpased 8 Gates Guy, because Guy was not in his full speed, since he didnt push himself from the air there and didnt want to hit black sphere that can erase anything. if you see your opponent in a thing that can erase anything, will you go full speed and hit him? LOL no, you wont.

And it is impossible for a guy, who was blitzed by the same Juubidara and inferior Juubito to outpase someone who blitzed Juubidara. 

Plus, it was lee who through that Kunai. And it was Kakashi who kamui'd Gudoudama. And it was Gaara's sand that could keep up with 8 Gates Guy. Guy clearly slowed down. Its not an excuse. 

Madara had absolutely *NO* difficulty of speedblitzing SM Minato. Its a pretty much Manga fact. he easily cut his arm and kicked him 2 times. And there is no reason to suggest Minato wasnt in his full speed, like in 8 Gate Guy, for example. That alone shows how inferior Minato was to Juubi Jins. Plus, Juubito cut an arm of KCM Minato, who is even faster than SM Minato. 

Since it had effect on a Juubi Jin, it will do lots of harm to BM Minato, or its avatar. And other Minato vertions are outclassed by 7 Gates Guy, who can blitz them.



> I think it's funny how when Minato uses his FTG attack, it is usually a direct hit. However, when it came to madara, that just changed, and he for some reason, just had to appear that way (Even though it is a fucking amazing panel).
> 
> It's even funnier, how he was able to save the Kid and Sasuke from Obito before the Gedu-dama could reach their heads from an extremely close distance, and even stop Madara's Gedu-damas before they could done any damage to him at all.. and yet he got hit by them. lol
> 
> ...



Gudoudama themselfs are not as fast as Juubi Jin. 

And we saw what Juubi Jins can do to Minato thanks to their speed.

Its funny how you are trying to deny the fact that 7 gates Guy is faster than Minato in all speed aspects, because he is a Juubi Jin's speed class character. The Manga is in front og you, but you are still denying that fact.


----------



## Icegaze (Jan 13, 2015)

juudara trolls 7 gate gai as shown in the manga. Wait loads of people on this thread have been banned. Who am i even talking to? why are all our names crossed out?
Minato can of course make a clone and he could while alive. that doesnt remotely save him from 8 gate gai. Minato also cannot continuously escape. the speed and range of gai jutsu would kill him. All minato needs to be is in the general area of the attack to die. Scattering kunai around doesnt help much when his reactions are much much slower than 8 gate gai.


----------



## Dominus (Jan 13, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> Yeah, especially when Kakashi wasnt all out and wasnt even fighting him.



Madara wasn't going all out either. I can do this all day.



> Dude, realy - you are trying to deny a Manga fact. It is obvious Guy was in the same speed class.
> 
> Guy surprised him with his speed, pressured him and was fast enough to use Hirudora.



And Sasuke pressured Kakashi that doesn't mean they are in the same speed class.



> Yeah, better suited because he is just as fast, or slightly faster than Juubidara. Manga fact.



Being physically faster than Minato doesn't make you more powerful than him, you should reread A vs. Minato.


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 13, 2015)

> Madara wasn't going all out either. I can do this all day.



No you cant. Is there any reason of why Madara wont be all out on Guy? No.
Is there any reason why Kakashi was not all out? Yes, there is - *it wasnt even a fight*. It wasn an exam and all Sasuke wanted to do is to grab his bells. Thats all.



> And Sasuke pressured Kakashi that doesn't mean they are in the same speed class.



1. Kakashi wasnt all out on him, since it was an exam and he wasnt trying to kill Sasuke.
2. Maybe Sasuke was at least close to Kakashi in terms of speed there. But anyway, if kakashi wanted to kill him and was all out, he would have done it. 



> Being physically faster than Minato doesn't make you more powerful than him, you should reread A vs. Minato.



Minato couldnt FTG away from Juubito and Juubidara, got blitzed and lost his arm in both confrontations. 7 Gates Guy surprised Juubidara with his speed, pressured him and used Hirudora on him. 7 gates Guy will blitz Minato before he can use FTG to teleport away. Minato doesnt have reaction speed to do that. 

And be sure - i can do this all day too. You are denying obvious manga fact.

Plus, Guy lost to him only due to Hirudora's explosion and Gates side effects. kakashi defeated Sasuke on his own while toying with him, since he wasnt trying to fight him. He wasnt trying to hit back and he was clearly not all out on Sasuke. 



> juudara trolls 7 gate gai as shown in the manga. Wait loads of people on this thread have been banned. Who am i even talking to? why are all our names crossed out?
> Minato can of course make a clone and he could while alive. that doesnt remotely save him from 8 gate gai. Minato also cannot continuously escape. the speed and range of gai jutsu would kill him. All minato needs to be is in the general area of the attack to die. Scattering kunai around doesnt help much when his reactions are much much slower than 8 gate gai.



I have never been banned here, but whatever.

Prove that Juubidara trolled with 7 gates Guy.


----------



## Dominus (Jan 13, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> No you cant. Is there any reason of why Madara wont be all out on Guy? No.



Madara said that Gai can't defeat him with the 7th Gate and was just toying with the Gokage, even 8th Gate Gai needed help from Minato, Gaara, Kakashi and Lee...



> 1. Kakashi wasnt all out on him, since it was an exam and he wasnt trying to kill Sasuke.
> 2. Maybe Sasuke was at least close to Kakashi in terms of speed there. But anyway, if kakashi wanted to kill him and was all out, he would have done it.



I can say the same about Gai and Madara, if Madara wanted to kill him he would have done it.



> Minato couldnt FTG away from Juubito and Juubidara, got blitzed and lost his arm in both confrontations. 7 Gates Guy surprised Juubidara with his speed, pressured him and used Hirudora on him. & gates Guy will blitz Minato before he can use FTG to teleport away. Minato doesnt have reaction speed to do that.



Performing better than someone doesn't always mean you're stronger than someone.



> And be sure - i can do this all day too. You are denying obvious manga fact.
> 
> Plus, Guy lost to him only due to Hirudora's explosion and Gates side effects. kakashi defeated Sasuke on his own while toying with him, since he wasnt trying to fight him. He wasnt trying to hit back and he was clearly not all out on Sasuke.



You don't know what a fact is. It would be a fact if it was shown or stated in the manga, but it  wasn't. You're simply assuming this, it wasn't even implied, he used Hirudora, Madara used his staff to block it and the next thing we see is Gai in the ground, pretty sure it implies that Madara blocked it and Gai doesn't stand a chance against him in the 7th Gate which is why he used the 8th.


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 13, 2015)

> Madara said that Gai can't defeat him with the 7th Gate and was just toying with the Gokage, even 8th Gate Gai needed help from Minato, Gaara, Kakashi and Lee...



Realy? From what i know, Juubidara didnt tell something like that to Guy. You can provide a scan, if you want.

Gokage has nothing to do with this at all. The fact he toyed with Gokage doesnt mean he toyed with Guy.

8 Gates Guy needed help because of Gudoudama that surrounded Juubidara. Thats all. he still was much faster than Juubidara to the point where he could blitz Juubidara.

And Juubidara was clearly all out on 7 Gates Guy. 7 Gates Guy surprised him with his speed and Juubidara fought him and was trying to kill him. The proof of that is the fact that Juubidara through Gudoudama at Guy after he suffered from Hirudora and Gates usage. Before that, Juubidara couldnt do that. He was defencing himself from Guys attacks there. if he was was fast enough, he would have killed Guy there. Remember what Juubidara did to Minato?

Also, he couldnt do anything to Juubidara even with his strongest attack. That was the reason why he started to use 8 Gates. 

And, well, its up to you to prove Juubidara toyed with him. You made a statement. I'll wait for proof.



> I can say the same about Gai and Madara, if Madara wanted to kill him he would have done it.



No you cant, because there is nothing to suggest Juubidara wasnt all out on him. Read what i wrote above. And yes - he wanted to kill Guy. But, since Guy surprised him with his speed and proved himself to be in the same speed class, he couldnt. Until the moment where Guy was lieing down on the ground because of Hirudora and Gates usage.



> Performing better than someone doesn't always mean you're stronger than someone.



In this case, it does mean 7 Gates Guy is far faster than Minato. Minato wont teleport himself away because he doesnt have reaction speed to do that. And than, Guy kills him.



> You don't know what a fact is. It would be a fact if it was shown or stated in the manga, but it wasn't. You're simply assuming this, it wasn't even implied, he used Hirudora, Madara used his staff to block it and the next thing we see is Gai in the ground, pretty sure it implies that Madara blocked it and Gai doesn't stand a chance against him in the 7th Gate which is why he used the 8th.



It doesnt need to be stated, but it was shown.

He doesnt stand a chance because in 7 gates he cant do anything to Juubidara. But still, he was in the same speed class as Juubidara. It was shown in Manga and it was pretty obvious.


----------



## Dominus (Jan 13, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> Realy? From what i know, Juubidara didnt tell something like that to Guy. You can provide a scan, if you want.
> 
> Gokage has nothing to do with this at all. The fact he toyed with Gokage doesnt mean he toyed with Guy.
> 
> ...



[sp][/sp]

Why would Madara who was toying with the Gokage when he was far weaker fight Gai with full power. Just because he wanted to kill him doesn't mean he was using full power.



> In this case, it does mean 7 Gates Guy is far faster than Minato. Minato wont teleport himself away because he doesnt have reaction speed to do that. And than, Guy kills him.



Only if Gai starts in the 7th Gate and Minato has no knowledge/underestimates him and the distance between them is small.



> It doesnt need to be stated, but it was shown.
> 
> He doesnt stand a chance because in 7 gates he cant do anything to Juubidara. But still, he was in the same speed class as Juubidara. It was shown in Manga and it was pretty obvious.



How was it shown? Gai attacking and Madara blocking doesn't mean they are in the same speed class.


----------



## Icegaze (Jan 13, 2015)

7th gate is incomparable to juudara. 
7 gate fastest attack is about equal to minato movement speed from A to B. 
movement speed involves throwing kunai and appearing there with hirashin


----------



## Trojan (Jan 13, 2015)

> [=NarutoX28;52673399]Except Kamui was stated to be slower than Madara's actual striking speed which is why Obito and Kakashi duped him in the first place by using Kamui in unison.



Yeah, slower than the Gedu-dama, not Madara himself. Also, Minato showed that he's faster than the Gedu-damas as I already proved. 


> Also, nice ignoring details. I can honestly see why people accuse you of trolling.
> 
> 
> 
> Madara Striking Speed >> Obito's Kamui.


Nice level of understanding, I can totally see why I always have to explain a million time.  
Do you think I posted Madara's attack with his hand, because I meant his attack with Gedu-dama? 


> Also, no surprise* Minato's Hiraishin in conjunction with Kakashi's Kamui *to set up the kunai is going to be faster than Obito's Kunai. Instant transportation is god-like.


I don't know what are you talking about in the bold stuff..



> If you're talking about Base Minato vs. Obito, that fight was a joke. That Obito was a young, featless Obito, not War Arc Obito.


Which is precisely what I meant that Minato haters try to find every pitiful excuse to downplay his feats.  

what does "young" have to do with anything? I don't remember Naruto being around 70 years younger than Madara stopping him from destroying madara with his lava FRS, nor did that effect Sasuke.

And although that Obito is not featless since he controlled Kurama, and killed tens of jonin and ANBU without a scratch (someone of Tobirama's level couldn't accomplish that),and he learned all of Madara's jutsu. In addition to having Hashirama's cells and healing abilities...

but the thing is he used the same Kamui that War Arc Obito was using the entire time. Unless of course you have a proof that his Kamui is different, which you don't...


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 13, 2015)

> Which is precisely what I meant that Minato haters try to find every pitiful excuse to downplay his feats.
> 
> what does "young" have to do with anything? I don't remember Naruto being around 70 years younger than Madara stopping him from destroying madara with his lava FRS, nor did that effect Sasuke.
> 
> ...



1. Nobody is downplaying him. You overestimate his powers and speed.

2. Kurama's control has nothing to do with speed, reflexes and reaction speed. 

3. It was Zetsu who defeated those jonin shinobi, not Obito.

4. Tobirama' fight with that shinobi group happened off-panel. But you dont care about that at all. 

5. Learning Madara's jutsu has nothing to do with his speed. And i highly doubt he learned all of them, since Madara wanted to use Obito for his own goal. I dont think Madara wanted Obito to know all his tricks.

6. Hashirama's DNA has nothing to do with speed, reflexes and reaction speed.

And, finally, young Obito is featless in terms of speed, reflexes and reaction speed. Because of feats, adult Shippuden/War Arc Obito is fastly superior to young Obito in speed, reflexes and reaction speed. Its not an excuse, it has nothing to do with excuses. Its a fact.

Plus, young Obito was fast enough to grab Minato, while adult, superior Obito couldnt do the same thing even to base Guy. Do your math.

<snip>


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 13, 2015)

> He didn't expect him to fight in the 8th Gate what are you talking about, he said blue steam, red steam is the 8th Gate. Madara was blocking 8th Gate Gai and is capable of flight, making a moon, etc. yet he was fighting 7th Gate Gai with full power? OK.



Blue steam. Yeah, he said that. So what? Does that prove he expected Guy to fight in 8 Gates at that moment?

He blocked 8 Gates Guy only once. The rest of the time, Guy was blitzing him.

Good like to Juubi Jin create a moon with CT (which is highly debatable, he never created a moon), or fly when Juubi Jin is pressed in H2H combat by someone of his speed caliber. 



> Except that Madara blocking Gai doesn't make them equals in speed.



Yep. The fact he couldnt counter-attack him, just like he did so against Minato and the fact he couldnt kill Guy when he rushed at him proves Guy was in the same speed class. 7 Gates Guy put him on the defensive.



> Kakashi couldn't do the same thing to Sasuke that he did to Naruto and was surprised by Sasuke and was on the defense, it must mean they are equals in speed.



Kakashi wasnt counter-attacking him on purpuse - it wasnt a fight. it was an exam. And the purpuse of the exam was to get Kakashi's bells. Kakashi was holding himself back against Sasuke and didnt counter-attack him.

It must mean that Sasuke was superior to Naruto in speed back than. Anyway, Kakashi wasnt all out on Sasuke. he wasnt fighting him at all.

And again - i am waiting for proof Juubidara was not all out on 7 Gates Guy. Your words are pointless until the moment when you can discredit the fact 7 gates Guy was equal to Juubidara in speed.


----------



## Dominus (Jan 13, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> Blue steam. Yeah, he said that. So what? Does that prove he expected Guy to fight in 8 Gates at that moment?
> 
> He blocked 8 Gates Guy only once. The rest of the time, Guy was blitzing him.
> 
> Good like to Juubi Jin create a moon with CT (which is highly debatable, he never created a moon), or fly when Juubi Jin is pressed in H2H combat by someone of his speed caliber.



Quit saying their speed is equal withou proving it, how are they equals in speed if Gai managed to protect himself from 8th Gate Gai's attack (doesn't matter if it only happened once).



> Yep. The fact he couldnt counter-attack him, just like he did so against Minato and the fact he couldnt kill Guy when he rushed at him proves Guy was in the same speed class. 7 Gates Guy put him on the defensive.
> 
> Kakashi wasnt counter-attacking him on purpuse - it wasnt a fight. it was an exam. And the purpuse of the exam was to get Kakashi's bells. Kakashi was holding himself back against Sasuke and didnt counter-attack him.
> 
> ...



Yes he was counter-attacking he put Sasuke in the ground. It's the same as it was with Gai vs. Madara you're ignoring it. The only difference is thatKakashi didn't have intent to kill like Madara but he couldn't defeat Sasuke right away, but that doesn't mean their speed is equal.


----------



## Hachibi (Jan 13, 2015)

Considering Juudara blocked 8th Gate Gai twice (both form the first step of EE) and would do it a third time if it wasn't for outside help, saying that 7th Gate Gai is anywhere close to Juudara in any category is beyond silly.


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 13, 2015)

> Quit saying their speed is equal withou proving it, how are they equals in speed if Gai managed to protect himself from 8th Gate Gai's attack (doesn't matter if it only happened once).



Well, he protected against only 1 Guys Evening Elephant... And he protected himself from everything 7 Gates Guy had throughn at him. Of course, Juubidara can block anything 7 Gates Guy has. But the fact is - he couldnt fight back. Because he was *too busy* protecting himself from 7 Guys attacks and *too busy* from blocking his Hirudora. Why he was too busy? Because 7 Gates Guy was so fast he made him that busy. Juubidara couldnt counter-attack him because 7 Gates Guy didnt give him a chance to do it, while using only the speed of his movements. 

Watch Juubidara's fight with SM Minato. Minato appeared right n front of him and attacked him. What we can see next? We can see, how easily Juubidara counter-attacked him with his staff, cutting his arm off, and kicked him 2 times. Why he didnt do that against 7 Gates Guy if he was faster?



> Yes he was counter-attacking he put Sasuke in the ground. It's the same as it was with Gai vs. Madara you're ignoring it. The only difference is thatKakashi didn't have intent to kill like Madara but he couldn't defeat Sasuke right away, but that doesn't mean their speed is equal.



He put him in the ground because of his own abilities and speed. 7 Gates suffered because of his own Hirudora and gates side effects. 

And it was not the same. Kakashi wasnt fighting him at all - he was dodging him. Thats all he did. Juubidara was fighting 7 Gates Guy, just like he fought SM Minato. But he couldnt do to Guy the same thing he did to Minato. Because Guy was much faster than Minato. Because Guy was capable of dodging Juubidara in H2H combat. Because Guy was in his speed class. 

And i have a quastion for you - whats the sense for Juubidara to hold himself back in a close combat with 7 Gates Guy?


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 13, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> Considering Juudara blocked 8th Gate Gai twice (both form the first step of EE) and would do it a third time if it wasn't for outside help, saying that 7th Gate Gai is anywhere close to Juudara in any category is beyond silly.



No its not. Juubidara couldnt block all of 8 Gate Guys attacks, because he wasnt fast enough. But he could block all of 7 Gates Guys attacks. Seeing as how many attacks Juubidara could block from 7 gates Guy and 8 Gates Guy we can see that there is a gap of speed between 7 Gates Guy and 8 Gates Guy, and between 8 Gates Guy and Juubidara. Nothing silly about it at all.


----------



## Dominus (Jan 13, 2015)

@StarWanderer

Kakashi wasn't dodging, he was blocking like who? That's right Madara. He didn't put Sasuke in the ground the moment Sasuke attacked him just like how Madara didn't attack Gai the moment he surprised him, this doesn't have to mean Gai/Sasuke are in the same speed class as Madara/Kakashi. 

Kakashi didn't dodge or read his book against Sasuke like he did against Naruto. Gai is physically faster than Minato that's why he couldn't do to Gai what he did to Minato. That doesn't make Gai and Madara equals in speed, Madara was just surprised.


----------



## Hachibi (Jan 13, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> No its not. Juubidara couldnt block all of 8 Gate Guys attacks, because he wasnt fast enough. But he could block all of 7 Gates Guys attacks. Seeing as how many attacks Juubidara could block from 7 gates Guy and 8 Gates Guy we can see that there is a gap of speed between 7 Gates Guy and 8 Gates Guy, and between 8 Gates Guy and Juubidara. Nothing silly about it at all.



You don't get it. 8th Gate Gai has show speed far above 7th Gate Gai could ever hope to accomplish and yet, Juudara managed to block two attacks form him.


----------



## SSMG (Jan 13, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> You don't get it. 8th Gate Gai has show speed far above 7th Gate Gai could ever hope to accomplish and yet, Juudara managed to block two attacks form him.



The two attacks he blocked areas you said earlier from the first step. Which we know is the slowest of 8th gate Guys hits.. It becomes obvious that the first step from 8 gate guy and 7th gate speed are close to each other because madara could block both.


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 13, 2015)

> @StarWanderer
> 
> Kakashi wasn't dodging, he was blocking like who? That's right Madara. He didn't put Sasuke in the ground the moment Sasuke attacked him just like how Madara didn't attack Gai the moment he surprised him, this doesn't have to mean Gai/Sasuke are in the same speed class as Madara/Kakashi.
> 
> Kakashi didn't dodge or read his book against Sasuke like he did against Naruto. Gai is physically faster than Minato that's why he couldn't do to Gai what he did to Minato. That doesn't make Gai and Madara equals in speed, Madara was just surprised.



He easily put him in the ground and he wasnt all out on Sasuke, obviously. Because it was not a fight at all. It was an exam. And the only thing Kakashi could do is to immobilise him, but not harm him. Thats why he didnt fight back when Sasuke attacked him. He was just protecting himself from his attacks, without even trying to hit him back. He wasnt even using his sharingan there.

Juubidara and Guy fight is completely different. It was a war and Juubidara was trying to kill him. And there was no reason for him to hold himself back, as in Kakashi's case, who could easily kill Sasuke if he hit back.

Juubidara was not holding his movements there. He was all out with his body speed, just like in his blitz of Minato. But he couldnt counter-attack Guy. And he couldnt kill him when he rushed at him. Because Guy was that fast. Guy was so fast he surprised Juubidara with his speed only. Guy fought Juubidara in H2H as an equal and that proves he was in the same speed class as Juubidara. Because if Juubidara could, he would have killed him at the moment when Guy rushed at him, or he would have killed him during their H2H fight. 

So yeah - it is obvious 7 Gates Guy is in the same speed class as Juubidara. Manga fact. 



> You don't get it. 8th Gate Gai has show speed far above 7th Gate Gai could ever hope to accomplish and yet, Juudara managed to block two attacks form him.



And yet, couldnt block the rest. In case with 7 Gates Guy, he blocked all of them. But couldnt kill Guy.

If you fight someone who is in your speed class, your fight will be more or less even. If you fight someone, who is faster, you have a chance to block some of his hits. But you will be overwhelmed.


----------



## Dominus (Jan 13, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> He easily put him in the ground and he wasnt all out on Sasuke, obviously. Because it was not a fight at all. It was an exam. And the only thing Kakashi could do is to immobilise him, but not harm him. Thats why he didnt fight back when Sasuke attacked him. He was just protecting himself from his attacks, without even trying to hit him back. He wasnt even using his sharingan there.
> 
> Juubidara and Guy fight is completely different. It was a war and Juubidara was trying to kill him. And there was no reason for him to hold himself back, as in Kakashi's case, who could easily kill Sasuke if he hit back.
> 
> ...



Why didn't Kakashi do it right of the bat? Let me guess because they are in the same speed class?


----------



## LostSelf (Jan 13, 2015)

Hussain said:


> btw, before I try to sleep
> 
> 
> 
> ...



couldn't do jackshit to it.

PNJ too, Hussain?

But this is the best one.

couldn't do jackshit to it.

Sasuke was able to move his hand and form Susano'o before Minato, the man with striking speed superior to Kamui, managed to touch the ball .


----------



## Trojan (Jan 13, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> couldn't do jackshit to it.
> 
> PNJ too, Hussain?
> 
> ...



He was not using FTG, nor was he thrown the Kunai. Obito came behind him when he was focusing on Kurama. U_U

- Yeah, Minato who had his hand cut off, and had to use his far (from the Gedu-dama) arm. And Sasuke used the hand that was already next to Naruto. 

&

That fight with obito is actually full with PnJ btw. :rofl
I always wonder why did not Minato teleported the second TBB to Obito's face since he is marked. Or send a clone to to him. lol


----------



## LostSelf (Jan 13, 2015)

Hussain said:


> He was not using FTG, nor was he thrown the Kunai. Obito came behind him when he was focusing on Kurama. U_U



But FTG has nothing to do with striking speed.



> - Yeah, Minato who had his hand cut off, and had to use his far (from the Gedu-dama) arm. And Sasuke used the hand that was already next to Naruto.



So what? Sasuke moved his arm further in less time than Minato .


----------



## Trojan (Jan 13, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> But FTG has nothing to do with striking speed.
> 
> 
> 
> So what? Sasuke moved his arm further in less time than Minato .



- Indeed, but yet again Obito came from behind his back when Minato was not even expecting a fight. 

- how is that further? Did Sasuke move his other arm? No, he moved the one already next to Naruto. U_U

otherwise, Minato could move without Sasuke even noticing that (unless it's already too late)
like when he stopped Kakashi from Killing Obito before Kakashi could move. U_U

PnJ everywhere. Poor Minato >_>


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 13, 2015)

> Why didn't Kakashi do it right of the bat? Let me guess because they are in the same speed class?



No, because Kakashi didnt find a moment suitable for that at first. Kakashi wasnt using his sharingan and was holding himself back during that fight. he wanted to get Sasuke out of the picture without harming him much.


----------



## LostSelf (Jan 13, 2015)

Hussain said:


> - Indeed, but yet again Obito came from behind his back when Minato was not even expecting a fight.



Wich should've forced to suddenly attack at full speed. Yet, Obito could act?vate and deactivate Kamui twice before he finished an arm swing.



> - how is that further? Did Sasuke move his other arm? No, he moved the one already next to Naruto. U_U
> 
> otherwise, Minato could move without Sasuke even noticing that (unless it's already too late)



He moved, look at the position he was and the position he is in. Remember he could also act?vate Susano'o 




> like when he stopped Kakashi from Killing Obito before Kakashi could move. U_U



I remember Zetsu moving faster than him too .



> PnJ everywhere. Poor Minato >_>



A lot of them. And Pokemon is not treating him any better. Considering he grew up training with an Elite Four member and yet was defeated by lame Ash, whose Pikachu starts at level 5 everytime he enters a new regi?n .


----------



## Dominus (Jan 13, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> No, because Kakashi didnt find a moment suitable for that at first. Kakashi wasnt using his sharingan and was holding himself back during that fight. he wanted to get Sasuke out of the picture without harming him much.



Madara couldn't find a suitable moment either, they were fighting for like 2 seconds.


----------



## Trojan (Jan 13, 2015)

> [=LostSelf;52678334]Wich should've forced to suddenly attack at full speed. Yet, Obito could act?vate and deactivate Kamui twice before he finished an arm swing.



Since when you where under the impression that it was not activated already? 


> He moved, look at the position he was and the position he is in. Remember he could also act?vate Susano'o



I am not talking about movement, Minato moved as well. But Minato's hand was far from the Gedudama (the other side), when Sasuke's hand was near the Kid. (the same side). As for the Susanoo, it has nothing to do with movement. 



> I remember Zetsu moving faster than him too .


and I remember Zetsu stopping both Sasuke's teleportation, and Naruto when they tried to attack him
as well.  


> A lot of them. And Pokemon is not treating him any better. Considering he grew up training with an Elite Four member and yet was defeated by lame Ash, whose Pikachu starts at level 5 everytime he enters a new regi?n .


[/QUOTE]

lol, Pikachu starts at 5 probably every-time indeed. :rofl 
but well, he is the leader of the last gym anyway, so Pikachu had the time to be stronger again 

As for the elite 4, in this case, it's Kaguya and her family.


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 13, 2015)

> Madara couldn't find a suitable moment either, they were fighting for like 2 seconds.


Kakashi was holding himself back. He didnt hit back because he didnt want to and he didnt use his sharingan. Juubidara wasnt holding himself back and he was trying to kill Guy.


----------



## UchihaX28 (Jan 13, 2015)

People are still trying to make arguments to suggest Part 1 Sasuke (Bell Test) is on par with Wave Arc Kakashi? 

 Let's look at the facts:

 Sasuke gets fodderized by only one water clone.

 Wave Arc Kakashi fights on par with the real Zabuza.

 MMMkay, feats suggest otherwise. For Juubidara, he displayed shock against 7th Gate Gai and 7th Gate Gai managed to pressure him while avoiding the black balls. SM Minato literally relied on a distraction which backfired and got his arm chopped. He could've Hiraishin'd away if he could've, but his reactions were too slow, so he couldn't. 7th Gate Gai wrecks Base Minato and KCM Minato at the very least (the one who got his arm ripped off by Juubito). Even BM Minato along with BM Naruto couldn't beat Juubito which suggests that 7th Gate Gai or at least 8th Gate Gai beats BM Minato.


----------



## Dominus (Jan 13, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> Kakashi was holding himself back. He didnt hit back because he didnt want to and he didnt use his sharingan. Juubidara wasnt holding himself back and he was trying to kill Guy.



It doesn't matter, Kakashi still wanted to "defeat" Sasuke (like he did with Naruto and Sakura), the fact that he didn't "defeat" him right away doesn't mean that their speed is equal just like how Madara not defeating Gai immediately doesn't mean their speed is equal.


----------



## LostSelf (Jan 13, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Since when you where under the impression that it was not activated already?



Well, he tried to grab Minato and warp him. He should've appeared solid .



> I am not talking about movement, Minato moved as well. But Minato's hand was far from the Gedudama (the other side), when Sasuke's hand was near the Kid. (the same side). As for the Susanoo, it has nothing to do with movement.



Minato's arm is like twice his torso, and that was the distance between him and the ball. I can touch my other arm in less than a second. I didn't want to mean that Sasuke touched Naruto, just that he stretched his arm rather fast before Minato touched the ball.

However, i am just making fun of an inconsistency that maybe Kishi didn't even pay attention to. Like a lot of other crazy feats pulled out of nowhere that he doesn't care to make in order to advance with the story.

I don't believe Sasuke has faster hand-speed than Minato. Just pointing out something funny.



> and I remember Zetsu stopping both Sasuke's teleportation, and Naruto when they tried to attack him
> as well.



Now i see why Choyiro was left out of that fight then. He was the only one fast enough to deal with Zetsu.




> lol, Pikachu starts at 5 probably every-time indeed. :rofl
> but well, he is the leader of the last gym anyway, so Pikachu had the time to be stronger again
> 
> As for the elite 4, in this case, it's Kaguya and her family.



Poor Pikachu. He defeats Orange's champion's Dragonite in a fight. Then years laters loses to a trainer's first Pokemon Battle with his Snivy lvl 5. In case you are planning to watch Black and White season, prepare for more bizzarre stuff like this.

Then wich son would be Flint? Because there are 4.


----------



## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Jan 13, 2015)

Dominus said:


> What's with these Madara and *7th Gate* Gai comparisons. Honestly, this is how I see their fight:
> 
> [sp]
> 
> ...



This right here solos the 7th gate guy arguments. It's honestly stupid how serious people take that scene, and how badly overrated it is. Madara rofl stops 7 gate guy so badly, it's not even funny.  Just becuase your abilities are better suited to fight a particular type of oppoenet doesnt mean you defeat anyone and everyone who loses to said opponent. Even Ay is better suited to fight Juudara, but that doesn't mean minato loses. Minato relishes in facing fast opponents who charge straight at him. He counters that type of approach quite easily. If 7th gate is below or equal to v2, then guy cannot beat minato in base. And 7th gate guy is certainly slower than the former fastest man alive during guys time.

Honestly I feel bad that I can only rep this guys post once.


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 13, 2015)

Dominus said:


> It doesn't matter, Kakashi still wanted to "defeat" Sasuke (like he did with Naruto and Sakura), the fact that he didn't "defeat" him right away doesn't mean that their speed is equal just like how Madara not defeating Gai immediately doesn't mean their speed is equal.



It does matter, since he didnt fight him. He didnt want to hurt him - he just wanted to immobilise him there. He wasnt even using his sharingan. Kakashi was holding himself back the whole time. And did Sasuke got himself defeated with a water clone during Zabuza fight, while the real Kakashi was fighting the real Zabuza?

Juubidara, who, unlike Kakashi, wasnt holding himself back, couldnt defeat Guy as quickly as he defeated SM Minato, because he wasnt fast enough. Because 7 Gates Guy was in the same speed class. 



> People are still trying to make arguments to suggest Part 1 Sasuke (Bell Test) is on par with Wave Arc Kakashi?
> 
> Let's look at the facts:
> 
> ...



Dont know what 7 Gates Guy can do to BM Minato's Kurama Avatar though.



> This right here solos the 7th gate guy arguments. It's honestly stupid how serious people take that scene, and how badly overrated it is. Madara rofl stops 7 gate guy so badly, it's not even funny. Just becuase your abilities are better suited to fight a particular type of oppoenet doesnt mean you defeat anyone and everyone who loses to said opponent. Even Ay is better suited to fight Juudara, but that doesn't mean minato loses. Minato relishes in facing fast opponents who charge straight at him. He counters that type of approach quite easily. If 7th gate is below or equal to v2, then guy cannot beat minato in base. And 7th gate guy is certainly slower than the former fastest man alive during guys time.
> 
> Honestly I feel bad that I can only rep this guys post once.


----------



## SSMG (Jan 14, 2015)

Dominus said:


> It doesn't matter, Kakashi still wanted to "defeat" Sasuke (like he did with Naruto and Sakura), the fact that he didn't "defeat" him right away doesn't mean that their speed is equal just like how Madara not defeating Gai immediately doesn't mean their speed is equal.



 What kakashi did with sasuke is nowhere close to the same situation as madara and guys situation. Kakashi wasn't trying to defeat sasuke like you're claiming. He was trying to stop sasuke from attaining the bells. Madara was trying to preform the IT and stop anyone who gets in his way as soon as possible.

The mere fact Guy didn't get his arm immediately cut off like minato did puts him above minato in cqc(which us both of their main fighting styles)


----------



## UchihaX28 (Jan 14, 2015)

@StarWanderer

 This is true. Not even sure how durable Kurama Avatar is to be honest.


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 14, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> @StarWanderer
> 
> This is true. Not even sure how durable Kurama Avatar is to be honest.



Well, Naruto's Kurama Avatar withstood 10 Tails laser, as i remember.


----------



## sabre320 (Jan 14, 2015)

I find the argument that 7th gate gai is a god tier and pressured juubidara hilarious...juubidara was toying with gai the moment he got serious he bitchslapped gais fastest attack with ease stated by gai himself the argument that it uses handseals is fallacious its clapping your hands together and punching no prep time people....was 7gate gai ever stated to be the fastest character? kakashi who knew gai from childhood knew his development inside being his rival stated only naruto could surpass minato you really think he would say that knowing both characters inside out if 7th gate gai could straight blitz minato even with ftg from decent distance what was bm narutos speed compared to the one 7gate was in awe of..juubidara reacted and defended against 8th gated gais 1st step  8th gate gai is a monstrous upgrade over 7thgate gai why in gods name would juubidara be pushed by 7thgate gai ??

and regarding sm minato there did you forget he was desperate there the chapter was named because im a father minato had to go in with the intent to attack no defensive mindset he had to land this attack narutos last chance was the kyuubi in obito who was a few meters from madara he was desperate did not know obito had consciousness and engaged madara in a physical contest he got beaten and was stunned by the onslaught.....in a straight up physical contest from the front ofcourse minato is slower..


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 14, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> I find the argument that 7th gate gai is a god tier and pressured juubidara hilarious...juubidara was toying with gai the moment he got serious he bitchslapped gais fastest attack with ease stated by gai himself the argument that it uses handseals is fallacious its clapping your hands together and punching no prep time people....was 7gate gai ever stated to be the fastest character? kakashi who knew gai from childhood knew his development inside being his rival stated only naruto could surpass minato you really think he would say that knowing both characters inside out if 7th gate gai could straight blitz minato even with ftg from decent distance what was bm narutos speed compared to the one 7gate was in awe of..juubidara reacted and defended against 8th gated gais 1st step easily 8th gate gai is a monstrous upgrade over 7thgate gai why in gods name would juubidara be pushed by 7thgate gai ??
> 
> and regarding sm minato there did you forget he was desperate there the chapter was named because im a father minato had to go in with the intent to attack no defensive mindset he had to land this attack narutos last chance was the kyuubi in obito who was a few meters from madara he was desperate did not know obito had consciousness and engaged madara in a physical contest he got beaten and was stunned by the onslaught.....in a straight up physical contest from the front ofcourse minato is slower..



Again - some fantasy from Saber. LOL. Nobody cares about your fantasy - we need facts.

And the fact is - 7 Gates Guy surprised Madara with his speed and later with Hirudora. There is nothing to suggest Juubidara was toying with him. So you can put your fantasy somewhere else. The fact is - Juubidara couldnt do to guy the same thing he did to Sm Minato, Guy pressured him and was fast enough to make a seal for Hirudora while fighting Juubidara. Juubidara blocked Hirudora partly because he used the time during which Guy made a Hirudora seal. The ttack itself is the fastest, the seal is not.

7 Gates Guy was clearly comparable to him in speed. Manga fact that you, and some others, are trying to deny. 

He said that. So what? Do you think characters words can be taken as a proof of anything?

Surpass Minato... In what aspect? 

Juubidara didnt react to 8 Gates Evening Elephants first step. Thats some fantasy from you again. you have good imagination. And the fact he blocked it doesnt prove anything, realy. In 7 gate, Guy couldnt land a hit on him. And we know what 8 gates Guy could do to him.

And again, some fantasy from you without any logical basis.

if SM Minato could, he would have dodged Juubidara by teleporting away. He didnt dodge him. because he couldnt dodge him. If he couldnt dodge Juubidara, he wont be able to dodge 7 Gates Guy. Plain and simple.


----------



## Dominus (Jan 14, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> It does matter, since he didnt fight him. He didnt want to hurt him - he just wanted to immobilise him there. He wasnt even using his sharingan. Kakashi was holding himself back the whole time. And did Sasuke got himself defeated with a water clone during Zabuza fight, while the real Kakashi was fighting the real Zabuza?
> 
> Juubidara, who, unlike Kakashi, wasnt holding himself back, couldnt defeat Guy as quickly as he defeated SM Minato, because he wasnt fast enough. Because 7 Gates Guy was in the same speed class.



You got it all wrong I don't think Kakashi and Sasuke have equal speed I was just using your logic to show you it's wrong. My point still stands, Kakashi couldn't do it the moment they started fighting just like how Madara couldn't that doesn't make Kakashi/Madara and Sasuke/Gai equals in speed.


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 14, 2015)

Dominus said:


> You got it all wrong I don't think Kakashi and Sasuke have equal speed I was just using your logic to show you it's wrong. My point still stands, Kakashi couldn't do it the moment they started fighting just like how Madara couldn't that doesn't make Kakashi/Madara and Sasuke/Gai equals in speed.



Its not wrong at all. Kakashi and Juubidara's confrontations are *completely* different. 

kakashi wasnt fighting Sasuke, he was holding himself back the whole time. He didnt fight back because he didnt want to do harm to Sasuke. He didnt even use his sharingan. It wasnt a fight at all - it was an exam. And the purpuse was to get Kakashi's bells.

Juubidara didnt hold himself back when he had confrontation with 7 Gates Guy. 7 Gates Guy surprised him with his speed, put him on the defensive and not only had enough speed to utilise Hirudora in that fight, but also surprised Juubidara with that. 7 Gates Guy dodged his staff, his spheres, put him on the defensive, surprised him with his speed and Hirudora. 

So it is your logic that is wrong. Because you compare two completely different situations with each other. 7 Gates Guy is in Juubi Jins speed class. Its an obvious Manga fact.


----------



## Dominus (Jan 14, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> Its not wrong at all. Kakashi and Juubidara's confrontations are *completely* different.
> 
> kakashi wasnt fighting Sasuke, he was holding himself back the whole time. He didnt fight back because he didnt want to do harm to Sasuke. He didnt even use his sharingan. It wasnt a fight at all - it was an exam. And the purpuse was to get Kakashi's bells.
> 
> ...



Kakashi had the goal of defeating him he couldn't accomplish that goal right away like Madara couldn't defeat Gai, it must mean they are in the same speed class.


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 14, 2015)

Dominus said:


> Kakashi had the goal of defeating him he couldn't accomplish that goal right away like Madara couldn't defeat Gai, it must mean they are in the same speed class.



You dont get it, do you? 

Kakashi was holding himself back the whole time and it was not a fight at all. He wasnt attacking Sasuke because he didnt want to. He was looking for a moment when he can just immobilise him without harming him much. He wasnt even using his sharingan there.

Juubidara wasnt holding himself back and he definetely wanted to kill Guy. But 7 Gates Guy proved himself too fast for Juubidara to kill him in close combat. Guy surprised him, pressured him and dodged him, while Juubidara wasnt holding himself back. Kakashi was holding himself back. By a lot.

But it seems you dont care about that and keep repeating the same all over again. Well, i can do that too.


----------



## Dominus (Jan 14, 2015)

So let me get this straight, Madara and 7th Gate Gai are in the same speed class because Madara couldn't defeat him in the first 2 seconds of their fight. Do you see how ridiculous that sounds?


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 14, 2015)

Dominus said:


> So let me get this straight, Madara and 7th Gate Gai are in the same speed class because Madara couldn't defeat him in the first 2 seconds of their fight. Do you see how ridiculous that sounds?



They both moved a lot. It was like several seconds because they are both very fast. 

Its not rediculous. if Juubidara was much faster, he would have done to Guy the same he did to SM Minato. Or he would have landed at least 1 blow on him. But he didnt. He was surprised by his speed, was pressured and couldnt land a single hit on Guy.


----------



## Dominus (Jan 14, 2015)

He was simply surprised and I don't think you realize how fast they are to think it was more than a couple of seconds.


----------



## SSMG (Jan 14, 2015)

Dominus said:


> Kakashi had the goal of defeating him he couldn't accomplish that goal right away like Madara couldn't defeat Gai, it must mean they are in the same speed class.



Again kakashis goal was to test out their abilities by having the kids try and grab bells. That in no way shape or form equates to madaras goal of trying to get the IT setup asap and stopping any one in his way.


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 14, 2015)

Dominus said:


> He was simply surprised and I don't think you realize how fast they are to think it was more than a couple of seconds.



Well, how long it was is debatable. But still, Guy was fighting him for some time and was trying to hit him all that time. He was surprised and 7 Gates Guy proved himself to be comparable to Juubi Jin in speed.


----------



## Dominus (Jan 14, 2015)

So surprising Madara makes them equal in speed. Please, stop.



SSMG said:


> Again kakashis goal was to test out their abilities by having the kids try and grab bells. That in no way shape or form equates to madaras goal of trying to get the IT setup asap and stopping any one in his way.



Other than that he wanted to teach them lessons by defeating them, Naruto - taijutsu and trickery, Sasuke - ninjutsu, Sakura - genjutsu.


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 14, 2015)

Dominus said:


> So surprising Madara makes them equal in speed. Please, stop.
> 
> 
> 
> Other than that he wanted to teach them lessons by defeating them, Naruto - taijutsu and trickery, Sasuke - ninjutsu, Sakura - genjutsu.



Thats the thing. He was surprised because of Guy's speed. Guy surprised a Juubi Jin with his speed. Thats impressive.

At the same time, Kakashi was holding himself back the whole time. He was toying with all of them.


----------



## Dominus (Jan 14, 2015)

I'm not saying it's not impressive, just that it's not enough for me to say that he's equal in speed with him.

[sp=And Kakashi was surprised by Sasuke as well]





Dominus said:


> [sp]
> 
> 
> [/sp]


[/sp]


----------



## UchihaX28 (Jan 14, 2015)

Dominus said:


> I'm not saying it's not impressive, just that it's not enough for me to say that he's equal in speed with him.
> 
> [sp=And Kakashi was surprised by Sasuke as well][/sp]



 You're ignoring context.

 Madara couldn't do shit, we was clearly on the defensive and on a battle to kill, that's the last thing you want to do unless you want to get overwhelmed.

 Kakashi was surprised mainly because of how strong Sasuke was for a Genin. Are you suddenly going to say he's never seen a Katon before just because he was shocked that Sasuke used it even though context says otherwise? Kakashi toyed with Naruto and beats Sakura w/ simple genjutsu. It's no surprise he wouldn't expect that much from Sasuke.


----------



## Dominus (Jan 14, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> You're ignoring context.
> 
> Madara couldn't do shit, we was clearly on the defensive and on a battle to kill, that's the last thing you want to do unless you want to get overwhelmed.
> 
> Kakashi was surprised mainly because of how strong Sasuke was for a Genin. Are you suddenly going to say he's never seen a Katon before just because he was shocked that Sasuke used it even though context says otherwise? Kakashi toyed with Naruto and beats Sakura w/ simple genjutsu. It's no surprise he wouldn't expect that much from Sasuke.



Yes, Madara couldn't do much for 2 seconds, that doesn't make them equals in speed.
Kakashi was surprised twice, at the beginning of the match and by Sasuke's Katon, I was talking about the surprise at the start of fight.


----------



## sabre320 (Jan 14, 2015)

Dominus said:


> I'm not saying it's not impressive, just that it's not enough for me to say that he's equal in speed with him.
> 
> [sp=And Kakashi was surprised by Sasuke as well][/sp]



pretty much this cant believe how someone can argue that 7th gate gai is as fast as juubidara when he blocked 8th gate guys 1st step people 8th gate gai is a monstrous step up its not even close....how can madara react to that if he was being pressured by 7th gate gai...thats like saying because suigetsu managed to block v1 raikages attack he can do the same to v2 raikages max speed....and 8th gate gai is a much larger upgrade think of the cost for godsakes.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jan 14, 2015)

Gaara said 7 Gates Gai had Inhuman Movements. 

Gaara who has seen a crap ton of high level fighters fighting in the war. 

What more do you want.


----------



## sabre320 (Jan 14, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Gaara said 7 Gates Gai had Inhuman Movements.
> 
> Gaara who has seen a crap ton of high level fighters fighting in the war.
> 
> What more do you want.



yeah and gaara thought joki boy was also really fast.....how does he thinking gais movements are inhuman make him as fast as juubidara ....kakashi who has seen gais speed was at awe at bm narutos speed as well as gai...is that supposed to mean something


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 14, 2015)

Dominus said:


> I'm not saying it's not impressive, just that it's not enough for me to say that he's equal in speed with him.
> 
> [sp=And Kakashi was surprised by Sasuke as well][/sp]



When Kakashi was holding himself back, when Kakashi wasnt using his sharingan... 



> pretty much this cant believe how someone can argue that 7th gate gai is as fast as juubidara when he blocked 8th gate guys 1st step



Ok, Juubidara blocked few 8 Gates Guy's punches. So what? How does it prove 7 Guy couldnt be in the same speed class as Juubidara?



> yeah and gaara thought joki boy was also really fast.....how does he thinking gais movements are inhuman make him as fast as juubidara ....kakashi who has seen gais speed was at awe at bm narutos speed as well as gai...is that supposed to mean something



I'd say Gaara was more impressive of Guy's speed.


----------



## Dominus (Jan 15, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> When Kakashi was holding himself back, when Kakashi wasnt using his sharingan...



I was talking about Gai and Madara.


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 15, 2015)

Dominus said:


> I was talking about Gai and Madara.



For me, it was good enough to say they were equal in speed.


----------



## Dominus (Jan 15, 2015)

For me it wasn't. We simply have different standards.


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 15, 2015)

Dominus said:


> For me it wasn't. We simply have different standards.



Ok. Thats probably true.


----------



## Arles Celes (Jan 15, 2015)

Well, Hirashin is instantaneous. That is how teleportation works.

So in theory Guy should be slower even in 8 Gates.

However, Guy got a crazy reaction time in 8 Gates mode and said reactions were what allowed Juudara to easily own Minato once he teleported. After all even if the teleport is instant the person teleporting needs a specific amount of time to recover from it and launch an attack. Minato got amazing reflexes and great body speed but Juudara was even superior to him.

So in a fight Base Minato definitely loses. BM Minato most likely too.

In a contest of whether Minato can teleport in time if he sees 8th Gate coming then I see Minato winning.


----------

