# Gai's father and the seven swordsmen



## Azula (Mar 12, 2014)

It's out.

how many survived the rampage of gai's father's eight gates?

kisame's predecessor seemed to have survived since he was killed by kisame personally


----------



## PikaCheeka (Mar 12, 2014)

I had to double-check to see if Kisame was there. It would explain why Kisame knew him.


----------



## Fiona (Mar 12, 2014)

None survived the wrath of Gai senior. 

His wrath is inescapable


----------



## Legendary Itachi (Mar 12, 2014)

Kisame did kill his senior instead of Gai father though.


----------



## falconzx (Mar 12, 2014)

Wasn't that Mangetsu in there ?

Funny if Gai's father killed him


----------



## Reddan (Mar 12, 2014)

Not many and a fitting end to such a group. They encountered Dai and the group never recovered again.


----------



## NO (Mar 12, 2014)

PikaCheeka said:


> I had to double-check to see if Kisame was there. It would explain why Kisame knew him.





Wow, everything really connects. Kisame's connection with Guy (whose father destroyed the 7 swordsmen).

Even one swordsman was considered pretty tough back then!


----------



## shyakugaun (Mar 12, 2014)

That was Kisame right ?


----------



## Deatz (Mar 12, 2014)

At first, I was thinking "oh, this is when they all died except Kisame's predecessor, Kisame, and Zabuza."

Except... if Mangetsu died here, how did Suigetsu interact with him as much as it's been implied? Gai was pretty young here, so Suigetsu couldn't be more than a babe, _at most_, right? I do feel like it's never been implicitly said whether Suigetsu spent a lot of time with his brother or if he just knew things about him via other people. So there's a probable and easy loophole there for Kishi. Hmm.


----------



## Yuna (Mar 12, 2014)

The 7 swordsmen of the mist that appeared in this chapter are not the exact same swordsmen as the ones who were revived by Kabuto.

Ameyuri Ringo isn't present. Neither are Mangetsu Hozuki, Zabuza Momochi or Jinpachi Munashi.

Instead we get Shark-Looking-Guy wielding Hiramekarei, Face-Veil Guy Wielding Whatever and Why-Aren't-You-Zabuza-But-Still-Look-Very-Much-Like-Zabuza wielding Kubikiribocho and Not-Raiga wielding Kiba.

So... it's entirely possible Die (?) Might killed 4 swordsmen.

*Edit:* That's not Kisame. The hair is the wrong colour and his face doesn't have gills. Plus, he's wearing entirely the wrong kind of clothes and Kisame wasn't wielding a Swordsmen of the Mist weapon before killing his predecessor. That's not Mangetsu either, since the hair is all wrong, plus Mangetsu was a member of the Swordsmen while Ameyuri was around, so he didn't wield Kiba, yet not-Mangetsu is seen here wielding Kiba while Ameyuri is mysteriously absent.


----------



## Harbour (Mar 12, 2014)

Fat guy survived cause Kisame killed him.
Zabuza's sword's owner probably survived too.


----------



## MangaR (Mar 12, 2014)

I didn't see Kisame in there but i saw a guy from filler. Also the fat fishman surely survived. I guess samehada heals good and Dai didn't know about it at all. Also he was a genin. He did learn some nice technic but was more of self made trainer than a ninja like Gai.


----------



## Edo Madara (Mar 12, 2014)

Inb4 Dai is Sakumo eternal rival


----------



## Azula (Mar 12, 2014)

Edo Madara said:


> Inb4 Dai is Sakumo eternal rival



oh shit :sanji


----------



## NO (Mar 12, 2014)

It turns out Kishimoto canonized a filler SSoM member.



His name is Raiga and he's on the far right.

he was killed by kisame personally


----------



## Yuna (Mar 12, 2014)

MangaR said:


> I didn't see Kisame in there but i saw a guy from filler. Also the fat fishman surely survived. I guess samehada heals good and Dai didn't know about it at all. Also he was a genin. He did learn some nice technic but was more of self made trainer than a ninja like Gai.


Which swordsman is from fillers?



jayjay32 said:


> It turns out Kishimoto canonized a filler SSoM member.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


More like he stole his hairstyle. Raiga didn't have pointed teeth. Not-Raiga clearly does.


----------



## Deatz (Mar 12, 2014)

Yuna said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ohhh, I think you're right. Now that I look, Mangetsu is definitely not there. I guess this would be a (mostly) previous generation.


----------



## NO (Mar 12, 2014)

Yuna said:


> Which swordsman is from fillers?
> 
> 
> More like he stole his hairstyle. Raiga didn't have pointed teeth. Not-Raiga clearly does.



I don't know. The outfits are way too similar.


----------



## Seraphiel (Mar 12, 2014)

He failed to kill the fodder fat guy. What a disgrace.


----------



## KingBoo (Mar 12, 2014)

i guess if you need even more evidence to madara surviving (well no one honestly thinks he'll perish to this), you'll see that people have survived an encounter with the 8th gate


----------



## Azula (Mar 12, 2014)

but gai surpassed his father


----------



## ANBUONE (Mar 12, 2014)

The problem is that its hard to tell if they were the greatsest generation of swordsmens  as a group are if kabuto picked them becasue each was the greastest welder of there certain blade... meaning each could have been from different  version of the groups except for the ones we know worked toghter


----------



## NO (Mar 12, 2014)

ANBUONE said:


> The problem is that its hard to tell if they were the greatsest generation of swordsmens  as a group are if kabuto picked them becasue each was the greastest welder of there certain blade... meaning each could have been from different  version of the groups except for the ones we know worked toghter



I think Kabuto picked the most skilled generation. I'm not a firm believer that early ninja = stronger.


----------



## Kyrie Eleison (Mar 12, 2014)

ANBUONE said:


> The problem is that its hard to tell if they were the greatsest generation of swordsmens  as a group are if kabuto picked them becasue each was the greastest welder of there certain blade... meaning each could have been from different  version of the groups except for the ones we know worked toghter



It stands to reason that he picked members of the most recent generation because their remains would have been easier to locate. It would make sense to pick the most skilled members with their respective blades, but that requires knowledge that Kabuto may not possess and/or their remains might have been too difficult for him to acquire.


----------



## ANBUONE (Mar 12, 2014)

jayjay32 said:


> I think Kabuto picked the most skilled generation. I'm not a firm believer that early ninja = stronger.



That is my point we dont know if they were ever in the same group, or if the group he brought back was just the most skilled of all the 7 swordsmens.but were part of a diffrent era from each other

Example: Zabuza was the greatest to ever weld the long sword, (his generation would be the closest to  kakashi.... but Kushimaru Kuriarare was the greatest to weld the  Nuibari. ( his generation the clostest to mintao


----------



## Ghost_of_Gashir (Mar 12, 2014)

All the Swordsmen that survived obviously fled on sight.


----------



## ANBUONE (Mar 12, 2014)

Kyrie Eleison said:


> It stands to reason that he picked members of the most recent generation because their remains would have been easier to locate. It would make sense to pick the most skilled members with their respective blades, but that requires knowledge that Kabuto may not possess and/or their remains might have been too difficult for him to acquire.


Come the guy got a hold of madara DNA.. He got the DNA of  kages.. if I am not mistake the kages have been dead longer than the 7 yet he got there DNA..him or oro since the would want only the strongest


----------



## Kyrie Eleison (Mar 12, 2014)

ANBUONE said:


> Come the guy got a hold of madara DNA.. He got the DNA of  kages.. if I am not mistake the kages have been dead longer than the 7 yet he got there DNA..him or oro since the would want only the strongest



While acquiring Madara's remains was impressive, Kabuto had a very specific reason to risk expending a lot of time and/or energy doing so. For the kages, they were from the generation previous to the current and their respective villages most likely took steps to properly honor their remains in the event they were able to retrieve them. That most likely made acquiring them fairly predictable since he had some familiarity with each of the villages. 

Kabuto was not only interested in strong pieces, he was also interested in pieces that were viable. In some instances he encountered remains that were unusable and/or could not be brought back using Edo Tensei. Using members of the most recent two generations of the Seven Swordsmen meant that he'd have an easier time locating their remains and they held a much higher probability of being intact/viable for his needs.


----------



## Jad (Mar 12, 2014)

Dai vaporized their existence in the 8th Gate  No traces of blood anywhere. He warned the Mist ninja's to run away, those that did, did, those that didn't...well you know.


----------



## Legendary Itachi (Mar 12, 2014)

Bitching, at least Gai should've recognized who are responsible to father's death.


----------



## Overhaul (Mar 12, 2014)

Zabuza's father was one of those seven swordsmen.


----------



## Yuna (Mar 12, 2014)

jayjay32 said:


> I don't know. The outfits are way too similar.


Hair is wrong colour, lips aren't pouty and puffy, teeth are pointed. Hairstyle and clothes match. So... not same character, just similar designs.



Revy said:


> Zabuza's father was one of those seven swordsmen.


Confirmed!


----------



## crystalblade13 (Mar 12, 2014)

*Did dai kill 4 of the swordsman?*

What do you think? since we've never seen those four (well, besides raiga, lol).


----------



## uchiha no senkō (Mar 12, 2014)

i was just thinking that actually. could he have killed more than 4? maybe 5?


----------



## chauronity (Mar 12, 2014)

Wow, i thought that was Zabuza himself. Ofcourse it woudn't fit the timeline. I think I also saw Kisame there, so is that even right?


----------



## Kind of a big deal (Mar 12, 2014)

It's the bloody mist, new members could also have killed old members to replace them.


----------



## Greedy master (Mar 12, 2014)

he killed at least one , the one who got punched first , we dont know if the 8th gate can damage multiple opponents therefore its hard to say how many died.


----------



## Deleted member 175252 (Mar 12, 2014)

*How many of the swordsmen do you think Dai actually killed?*

Im thinking at least 4, possibly 5 or 6. All of them pretty much the fat one could have been killed by Dai


----------



## Frostman (Mar 12, 2014)

all but the fat one, hence why Gai defeated Kisame to complete the collection.


----------



## Kael Hyun (Mar 12, 2014)

PrazzyP said:


> Im thinking at least 4, possibly 5 or 6. All of them pretty much the fat one could have been killed by Dai



The Fat one (Fuguki Suikazan) was killed by Kisame. I think He might have killed 3 of them.


----------



## .access timeco. (Mar 12, 2014)

Kabuto brought back the strongest generation of the Swordsmen, implying that those 7 were part of the team at the same time.

In this chapter, we see almost all of them, but Zabuza, Ringo and Mugetsu were not a part of the team yet. 

Based on that, you can know for sure that 4 of them (Fuguki, Akebino, Kuriarare and Jinpachi) survived this fight and were still on the team when Zabuza and the other two joined the team. 

Raiga, the Kubikiribouchou and the Hiramekarei guy died at some point before that, so at best Dai killed 3.


----------



## Dolohov27 (Mar 12, 2014)

If wasn't for puffer fish i say he soloed them all.


----------



## Suigetsu (Mar 12, 2014)

If you consider that most of them can turn into water.

I think his objective was just to hold them off, and if he was really just a genin level.
People love to over hype stuff.

Maybe he took one of them down, but I doubt he went roflstomping like most of you always like to hype it.


----------



## Odie Esty (Mar 12, 2014)

Edo Madara said:


> Inb4 Dai is Sakumo eternal rival



Kishi pls my heart


----------



## Turrin (Mar 12, 2014)

I'm not sure if the kid wielding Chojiro's sword is Kisame or not. If not than Dai probably killed 4 of the members, and the other 3 survived


----------



## Jagger (Mar 12, 2014)

jayjay32 said:


> It turns out Kishimoto canonized a filler SSoM member.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not sure if it is Raiga, but Kishi just decided to steal the character's design and that's all.  Not truly making Raiga a canonized character.

Does that word even exist or did I just make it up?


----------



## Samehada (Mar 12, 2014)

Really the debate is whether the Raiga character truly died when fighting Dai. If you believe its Raiga, then you still have to decide if that makes the Raiga filler arc cannon. If so, then Dai killed three. If not, Dai killed 4.

It really is subjective at this point since we don't have clear understanding what is cannon when pertaining to Raiga.


----------



## Za Fuuru (Mar 12, 2014)

jayjay32 said:


> Link removed



Who's the ninja on the left in the second panel? I don't remember


----------



## Addy (Mar 12, 2014)

confirmed = 8 gates = shit against kisame if he had samhada against gai


----------



## Iruel (Mar 12, 2014)

Turrin said:


> *I'm not sure if the kid wielding Chojiro's sword is Kisame or not*. If not than Dai probably killed 4 of the members, and the other 3 survived



 uh, no. _obviously _not.


----------



## Amatérasu’s Son (Mar 12, 2014)

By my count four out of seven Shinobi Swordsmen might have died that day.

Kushimaru, Fuguki Suikazan, and Kurosuki Raiga lived. I'm speculating that on the assumption that Kabuto was able to locate most of the others because they died at a later date. 

If we assume that Kishi just canonized Kurosuki Raiga, which I am, then we know he and Fuguki definitely lived. We've never seen the others and their opponent was using Shimon.

I want to say that Kushimaru survived to die at a later date just for convenience sake as Kishi seemed to have grouped them together by generation. By having him still be there in Zabuza and Mangetsu's generation it makes him a veteran.

So the best case scenario for the swordsmen is that he didn't kill any of them, but they couldn't get past him.

The best case scenario for Dai is that he killed FIVE out of SEVEN Shinobi swordsmen by his damn self as a Genin before he died.


Which would explain Raiga's later obsession with funerals. He had to attend like three or four in a row after his team had a nasty run in with a Konoha Genin. Might Dai gave Raiga severe Post Might Stress Disorder.

The moral of this story is, DON'T FUCK WITH THE ETERNAL GENIN OTHERWISE YOU MIGHT DIE!!!!




jayjay32 said:


> Wow, everything really connects. Kisame's connection with Guy (whose father destroyed the 7 swordsmen).
> 
> Even one swordsman was considered pretty tough back then!


It's true it's true.


jayjay32 said:


> It turns out Kishimoto canonized a filler SSoM member.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep, I agree. 


Yuna said:


> Which swordsman is from fillers?
> 
> 
> More like he stole his hairstyle. Raiga didn't have pointed teeth. Not-Raiga clearly does.


No, if you look at the wiki page, he stole the hairstyle and the clothes He's also wielding the appropriate sword.


ANBUONE said:


> Come the guy got a hold of madara DNA.. He got the DNA of  kages.. if I am not mistake the kages have been dead longer than the 7 yet he got there DNA..him or oro since the would want only the strongest


But the Kage's bodies were held in a centralized location. Much easier than hunting down the remains of shinobi killed in the field, if nobody recovered the remains.


Revy said:


> Zabuza's father was one of those seven swordsmen.


Good eye, that makes sense.


Kael Hyun said:


> The Fat one (Fuguki Suikazan) was killed by Kisame. I think He might have killed 3 of them.





Jagger said:


> I'm not sure if it is Raiga, but Kishi just decided to steal the character's design and that's all.  Not truly making Raiga a canonized character.
> 
> Does that word even exist or did I just make it up?


That's Kiba, the lightning sword. The design in the anime is slightly different, it's a little fatter as back then they only had Kubikiri Hocho and Samehada to go by so I think they assumed they were all Buster Sword style blades, but the two blades operate identically. 


Addy said:


> confirmed = 8 gates = shit against kisame if he had samhada against gai



Not necessarily, there are two other options. A) Dai ran out of juice and died before he could finish them all off and B) Fuguki saw his team getting slaughtered knew what time it was and ran like hell.


----------



## Iruel (Mar 12, 2014)

Amat?rasu?s Son said:


> By my count four out of seven Shinobi Swordsmen might have died that day.
> 
> Kushimaru, Fuguki Suikazan, and Kurosuki Raiga lived. I'm speculating that on the assumption that Kabuto was able to locate most of the others because they died at a later date.
> 
> ...



just because we see "Raiga" does NOT mean the actual filler arc is canon and you can not assume that any events of that shitty filler arc happened in the manga story. I mean look at Gari and co, they had these unrelated Kekkai Genkai in the movie, much different from what they have in canon, so its ridiculous to assume Raiga survived just cuz he was in a Part 1 filler.

and in the end all know is that Kisame killed fatso, so its impossible to tell how many were killed by Dai unless we get further explanations.


----------



## maltyy (Mar 12, 2014)

Kishi gave us 'Gai vs. Akatsuki', albeit in a different form.


----------



## MisterJB (Mar 12, 2014)

Raiga survived.



Also, Kisame's mentor.


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Mar 13, 2014)

I think Dai managed to take down the previous wielders of Hiramekarei, Kiba, Shibuki and of the Kubikiribocho swords, seeing how none of them are the strongest generation of Swordsmen. You can recognize Suikazan, Jinin and Kushimaru in that panel, but the other four? They were the previous gen.

Ameyuri, Jinpachi, Zabuza and Mangetsu must've come up later to complete the group with those three survivors and took those respective swords.



Revy said:


> Zabuza's father was one of those seven swordsmen.



Could be.


----------



## Za Fuuru (Mar 13, 2014)

What I don't understand is why all this happened. What's the reason for this? What did 7 swordmen want from young Guy? They were just kids, not even the strongest. Why didn't they just run away? Why Dai killed himself instead of just running away with the 3 kids?


----------



## conradoserpa (Mar 13, 2014)

jayjay32 said:


> It turns out Kishimoto canonized a filler SSoM member.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Dude, you are good. You are completly right. Nice. 

But how can you remember a filler LOL You have a really, really good memory


----------



## Hitomi (Mar 13, 2014)

I agree with Sennin. four of those swordsmen aren't the ones Kabuto revived.  






PikaCheeka said:


> I had to double-check to see if Kisame was there. *It would explain why Kisame knew him.*


Kisame first met Gai here:
Something which might cause a spontaneous secondary mutation in his eyes later on
Something which might cause a spontaneous secondary mutation in his eyes later on

Gai didn't remember him in their second encounter even though Kisame didn't forget that kick  
Something which might cause a spontaneous secondary mutation in his eyes later on
Something which might cause a spontaneous secondary mutation in his eyes later on


----------



## Jeefus (Mar 13, 2014)

I wonder if Kisame had a run in with Dai or simply knew he took out several swordsmen.. than again he could know Gai from the bingo book?

Either way, I think Dai took out at least 4


----------



## Joker J (Mar 14, 2014)

Thank you for the image Snow princess.

The overall confirmed theory is Might Dai only get killed 4 SMS that day or non at all (highly unlikely) and the rest survived or some how finished him off before they were killed too.

Why?  Because here "Last generation"


This is the previous SMS members before the "Last generation". The difference in this group is that the 4 current members in the "Last generation" are not present there.


That day Guy killed the (Blast sword, Twin sword, Zabuza look a like, and finally Raiga) swordsmen.

After that day there were 4 new replacements for the group that we see here.


1. Zabuza
2. Ameyuri
3. Jinpachi
4. Mangetsu

Also (just because we see Kishi is using the the character design of Raiga from the anime doesn't mean he used his background story and and cause of death from the anime)

So those 4 either died by Dai hands or somehow survived from Dai gates and died by something else to get replaced, but again most likely those 4 were killed by Dai.


----------



## Pokkle (Mar 14, 2014)

Maybe he kill nobody.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Mar 18, 2014)

I just hope the anime expands on the fight. I wanna see how it played out.



*Zabuza look-alike:* "What's a Jounin gonna do to the Seven Swordsmen of the Hidden Mist?"

*Eight Gates Dai:* "I'm a Genin."

_*Zabuza look-alike gets drop kicked and dies*_


----------

