# Hinata vs Sakura



## Level7N00b (Jan 9, 2010)

Location: Konoha Training Field
Mindset: Hinata has full confidence, no wavering. Sakura is IC
Restrictions: None

Just to make things clear, this is Shippuden version.


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## Borel (Jan 9, 2010)

Sakura's newfound strength and evasive skills combined with Kishi's utter neglectance of Hinata's combat skills make me pretty comfortable giving this one to Sakura.


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## Sarinax (Jan 9, 2010)

Thats actually really hard. everyone gives to Sakura, but Hinata has the Byakugan ... and she has abilities that are not shown yet. So out of respect, I say it's a draw... both have skills to match each other out.


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## Borel (Jan 9, 2010)

Sarinax said:


> Thats actually really hard. everyone gives to Sakura, but Hinata has the Byakugan ... and *she has abilities that are not shown yet*. So out of respect, I say it's a draw... both have skills to match each other out.


And how could those be taken into account?

And the Byuakugan just helps her see that she's fucked.


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## Koroshi (Jan 9, 2010)

INB4 Pairing fans.

Anyway, this has been done lots of times, with the shown feats dictating that Sakura wins this one. Hinata has not shown anything to prove that she has enough skill, speed and power to be able to fight against someone more experienced unfortunately.


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## N120 (Jan 9, 2010)

This match-up has been done a thousand times already, and hinata has won every one of them. This new thread isnt going to change that.


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## Goku• (Jan 9, 2010)

Hinata takes this hands down, Sakura uses taijutsu which would be useless against the Byakugan.


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## Borel (Jan 9, 2010)

Goku said:


> Hinata takes this hands down, Sakura uses taijutsu which would be useless against the Byakugan.


Except seeing what Sakura is doing doesn't mean she can counter it.


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## Goku• (Jan 9, 2010)

Yes it does, Hinata is a taijutsu specialist and Sakura is no speed demon, as soon as Sakura comes in close the battle is over.


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## Bart (Jan 9, 2010)

I agree with Goku 

The fact of the matter is that Sakura isn't exactly the most unorthodox mover within the Shinobi World, and relies on chakra to augument her strength. Sakura doesn't deal in accuracy due to her strength, whereas logically Hinata would.


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## Level7N00b (Jan 9, 2010)

Bartallen2 said:


> I agree with Goku
> 
> The fact of the matter is that Sakura isn't exactly the most unorthodox mover within the Shinobi World, and relies on chakra to augument her strength. Sakura doesn't deal in accuracy due to her strength, whereas logically Hinata would.



And, one thing I have noticed about Sakura's fighting style and her chakra enhanced power. She seems to attack while just using random punches and kicks to me, but I might be wrong. Gentle Fist is an actual martial art, so if that is true, there is no way Hinata will get hit by Sakura's clumsy attacks.


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## Borel (Jan 9, 2010)

Sakura could bury Hinata six feet under by just smashing the ground below her.

Seriously, we've seen Hinata do next to nothing, so any match-ups including her are bound to involve ambigiousity.


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## *LovelySun* (Jan 9, 2010)

*Actually depends. Do filler moves count?
I think if they do Hinata might be able to take the win. Because she could use protective 8 trigrams and repel Sakura back. Before she got one hit.
But if not. Then Sakura might when with her superior speed, but if Hinata gets a hit maybe in her arm, Sakura may not be able to focus chakra. Well, ill give it to Sakura at the moment.*


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## Kind of a big deal (Jan 9, 2010)

Why is Hinata a taijutsu specialist? She's in a tracker team and her role is to view long distances. That's her speciality.

This is her sole post skip taijutsu feat:



She gathered chakra in her fists. That's it, after that she was owned in a single panel. If Hinata is supposed to be a taijutsu specialist, then Naruto is a genjutsu specialist by the same logic. (owned in 1 panel makes you a specialist)


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## ~riku~ (Jan 9, 2010)

Borel said:


> Sakura's newfound strength and evasive skills combined with Kishi's utter neglectance of Hinata's combat skills make me pretty comfortable giving this one to Sakura.



Evasive skills? Manga proof please? And I mean actual panels where Chiyo _isn't_ controlling her. 

If you want, I can show you the panels where she couldn't dodge Kabuto's flying ass or 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Omoi's kick


 with her amazing _evasive skills_.



Hazelnut said:


> Sakura..



has pink hair? Is the fail heroine? loses this battle? Yeah, I know.



naruto the best said:


> i love hinata but sakura would rape from what we have seen



We've only seen her punch and heal, dear.



Borel said:


> And how could those be taken into account?
> 
> And the Byuakugan just helps her see that she's fucked.



No, not really. Since she sees the punch coming, it's not that hard to just dodge. Or she could just kick Sakura away. Or parry. Her taijutsu is significantly better than Sakura's. Sakura's punches aren't unavoidable, they are slow and predictable, unless you want to show me a panel where she has punched a mobile ninja. 



Koroshi said:


> INB4 Pairing fans.
> 
> Anyway, this has been done lots of times, with the shown feats dictating that Sakura wins this one. Hinata has not shown anything to prove that she has enough skill, speed and power to be able to fight against someone more experienced unfortunately.



Skill? That was shown against Neji. She is proficient at using Juuken. Speed? She has no speed feats but neither has Sakura. :3 Power? I give Sakura that one, but Sakura won't be able to land a hit on her because she couldn't do it in the manga, could she?



Borel said:


> Sakura could bury Hinata six feet under by just smashing the ground below her.



Yeah, I forgot that fat slob Hinata can't jump away, or activate her Byakugan to see the punch coming and dodge. Because she isn't a ninja.




Kind of a big deal said:


> Why is Hinata a taijutsu specialist? She's in a tracker team and her role is to view long distances. That's her speciality.



Because Juuken is a superior form of taijutsu? Because her taijutsu outclasses Sakura's? Heh, people think Sakura is so awesome at tai when all she can do is PUNCH. Slow, predictable punches that academy students are taught to evade. Fuck that, you don't need to be ninja to dodge a punch.



> She gathered chakra in her fists. That's it, after that she was owned in a single panel. If Hinata is supposed to be a taijutsu specialist, then Naruto is a genjutsu specialist by the same logic. (owned in 1 panel makes you a specialist)



I think it was Jiraiya or Kakashi who were talking about chakra being visible is a big feat actually. She got owned in a single panel because she went up against PAIN. What do you think Sakura would've advanced? Tenten? Ino? Chouji? Shikamaru? Exactly. Just because she lost to someone 3734984280x stronger and better than her doesn't mean she sucks because Sakura isn't on Pain's level, believe it or not.


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## -JT- (Jan 9, 2010)

I give this to Sakura purely on knowledge- Hinata hasn't really evolved much from the Chunin Exams, so Sakura knows her fighting style, whereas Sakura has transformed from completely awful in battle to reasonably dependable. This is something Hinata has not seen of Sakura in Shippuden, and therefore knows not of her super human strength!


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## Santeira (Jan 9, 2010)

Whoever hits first wins. 50-50 percent chance.


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## Bart (Jan 9, 2010)

Hazelnut said:


> You do know it's up to Kishi wether who wins or not so lets leave this now lol



Yet you post in the Battledome, yourself? The very concept of the Battledome,



> *Introduction - Rules of the Battledome *
> The Naruto Battledome is a subsection dedicated to discussion of *hypothetical 'versus' scenarios* (usually battles) between Naruto characters based on the Naruto storyline. This may include direct match-ups between characters, comparisons of character’s databook statistics (i.e: Ninjutsu, Taijutsu, Genjutsu, Intelligence, Strength, Speed, Stamina, Seal), or jutsu math-ups.


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## Goku• (Jan 9, 2010)

Hazelnut said:


> You do know it's up to Kishi wether who wins or not so lets leave this now lol



You do know, the whole point of the battledome is to use what Kishi has shown us, to draw conclusions as to what could happen in hypothetical situations.

-snip-


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## Kind of a big deal (Jan 9, 2010)

~Riku~ said:


> Because Juuken is a superior form of taijutsu? Because her taijutsu outclasses Sakura's? Heh, people think Sakura is so awesome at tai when all she can do is PUNCH. Slow, predictable punches that academy students are taught to evade. Fuck that, you don't need to be ninja to dodge a punch.



You make the assumption that gentle fist is superior, but is it really? Because others have said so? If it's so superior, why was Gai fighting Kisame instead of Neji? I can think of so many techniques that would beat gentle fist, it's a long list. That's just how it works, everything has counters. Gentle fist is not superior by definition.

Not only that, but let's assume (for the sake of argument) for a moment, that gentle fist is actually on a technical level better than what Lee and Gai do. Gai still fought Kisame instead of Neji. So why was that? Because Gai is stronger, more experienced, etcetera, and Neji is younger, not as fast, or as strong. So the person using the technique still has more influence on overall fighting ability than the actual technique itself. 

And that's already a fact even with the assumption that gentle fist is a superior technique, which by itself is also very debatable.

And as it just so happens, Hinata is the very weakest of the weaklings. She has never ever done anything but be weak throughout the entirity of the story. That's the whole point of her as a character, just like Shikamaru is a lazy genius with a sense of duty, Chouji is a fat kid who goes through fire for his friends, Hinata is a weak girl who admires strength of character. No matter how much techniques she hypothetically has, it can't overcome the fact that she's weak.



> I think it was Jiraiya or Kakashi who were talking about chakra being visible is a big feat actually. She got owned in a single panel because she went up against PAIN. What do you think Sakura would've advanced? Tenten? Ino? Chouji? Shikamaru? Exactly. Just because she lost to someone 3734984280x stronger and better than her doesn't mean she sucks because Sakura isn't on Pain's level, believe it or not.



Chakra being visible may be a big feat but it's pointless if not used properly.  Naruto already had visible chakra in the academy when he made retarded bunshins. Does pre-kagebunshin Naruto also beat chuunin Sakura because he could make visible chakra? Not in a million years.

Chouji managed to at least do more than just run up to Pain and get one-shotted. Sure, he wasn't on his own, but still there's really not much else to do a comparison with. Obviously she was never going to do anything other than lose when facing Pain, every single character would lose, that's totally not the point. The point is she lost so miserably.


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## Bart (Jan 9, 2010)

Kind of a big deal said:


> You make the assumption that gentle fist is superior, but is it really? Because others have said so? If it's so superior, why was Gai fighting Kisame instead of Neji? I can think of so many techniques that would beat gentle fist, it's a long list. That's just how it works, everything has counters. Gentle fist is not superior by definition.



Jyuuken is superior, and it's no assumption.

Kishimoto wished for Gai to display his Gates, ergo, why Neji hadn't displayed what he had learnt in three years, as well as both Rock Lee and Tenten. Nevertheless, Jyuuken allowed Neji to escape from a technique which was called as virtually inescapable - Suirou no Jutsu.

Jyuuken's only known counter is Nenkin no Yoroi.


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## Level7N00b (Jan 9, 2010)

MiraBlossom said:


> *Actually depends. Do filler moves count?
> I think if they do Hinata might be able to take the win. Because she could use protective 8 trigrams and repel Sakura back. Before she got one hit.
> But if not. Then Sakura might when with her superior speed, but if Hinata gets a hit maybe in her arm, Sakura may not be able to focus chakra. Well, ill give it to Sakura at the moment.*



Yes, filler do count.


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## Santeira (Jan 9, 2010)

Hmm. I fail to see how Hinata did not use her Chakra properly. She did shape two lions out of her palms--I would consider that as using chakra properly. 

And I'm going to tell you--any Chuunin would end like Hinata with a Shinra Tensei being cast at that close a range. Tell me Chouji had fared better when he actually got close to Pain, got Shinra Tensei'd and verily _dodged_ his way to safety.


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## Kind of a big deal (Jan 9, 2010)

Is it superior to.. Raikage's chakra shroud enhanced taijutsu? Don't be silly. Asuma's Hien? Doubtful. Opening 6 or more gates? Also very doubtful. Is it superior when faced with any kind of non-fodder sword or weapon? No chakra points to seal there. Is it superior to Kimimaro's armor of bones? You tell me.

And these are just variations of taijutsu.

And all this talk of gentle fist still has nothing to do with the fact that Hinata is inherently weak.


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## Borel (Jan 9, 2010)

~Riku~ said:


> Evasive skills? Manga proof please? And I mean actual panels where Chiyo _isn't_ controlling her.
> 
> If you want, I can show you the panels where she couldn't dodge Kabuto's flying ass or
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


Didn't Chiyo comment on her evasive abilities during the Sasori fight? I'm too lazy to dig up the manga page.


> has pink hair? Is the fail heroine? loses this battle? Yeah, I know.


Pink hair, fail heroine... sure, but she does win this battle.



> We've only seen her punch and heal, dear.


A lot more than can be said of Hinata.



> No, not really. Since she sees the punch coming, it's not that hard to just dodge. Or she could just kick Sakura away. Or parry. Her taijutsu is significantly better than Sakura's. Sakura's punches aren't unavoidable, they are slow and predictable, unless you want to show me a panel where she has punched a mobile ninja.


Manga panel of these awesome taijutsu skills Hinata has?



> Skill? That was shown against Neji. She is proficient at using Juuken. Speed? She has no speed feats but neither has Sakura. :3 Power? I give Sakura that one, but Sakura won't be able to land a hit on her because she couldn't do it in the manga, could she?


Hinata has next to no feats...

When has Sakura fought Hinata?



> Yeah, I forgot that fat slob Hinata can't jump away, or activate her Byakugan to see the punch coming and dodge. Because she isn't a ninja.


Exactly. 



> Because Juuken is a superior form of taijutsu? Because her taijutsu outclasses Sakura's? Heh, people think Sakura is so awesome at tai when all she can do is PUNCH. Slow, predictable punches that academy students are taught to evade. Fuck that, you don't need to be ninja to dodge a punch.


You keep mentioning Hinata's superior taijutsu, yet it is suspiciously absent from the manga.




> I think it was Jiraiya or Kakashi who were talking about chakra being visible is a big feat actually. She got owned in a single panel because she went up against PAIN. What do you think Sakura would've advanced? Tenten? Ino? Chouji? Shikamaru? Exactly. Just because she lost to someone 3734984280x stronger and better than her doesn't mean she sucks because Sakura isn't on Pain's level, believe it or not.


Agreed, being one-paneled by Pain isn't anything to be ashamed of.


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## Kind of a big deal (Jan 9, 2010)

> > We've only seen her punch and heal, dear.
> 
> 
> A lot more than can be said of Hinata.



That's pretty much the whole topic in two sentences as far as I'm concerned.


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## Bart (Jan 9, 2010)

Kind of a big deal said:


> Is it superior to.. Raikage's chakra shroud enhanced taijutsu? Don't be silly. Asuma's Hien? Doubtful. Opening 6 or more gates? Also very doubtful. Is it superior when faced with any kind of non-fodder sword or weapon? No chakra points to seal there. Is it superior to Kimimaro's armor of bones? You tell me.



Jyuuken breaks and destroys chakra-based substances, and everything you have mentioned is categorised as a chakra-based substance.

Your also forgetting about Kaiten, Hakke Kuushou and Juuho Soushiken.


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## Kind of a big deal (Jan 9, 2010)

Really? A metal sword is made out of chakra? Bones are made out of chakra too now? Obviously Hidan's scythe is constructed from pure chakra as well. So silly of me.


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## Bart (Jan 9, 2010)

Kind of a big deal said:


> Really? A metal sword is made out of chakra? Bones are made out of chakra too now?



If Neji was able to use Kaiten to knock an opponent through a tree with six palms, then I don't see what's stopping the effects of Jyuuken from breaking a mundane Katana.


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## Kind of a big deal (Jan 9, 2010)

Bartallen2 said:


> If Neji was able to use Kaiten to knock an opponent through a tree with six palms, then I don't see what's stopping the effects of Jyuuken from breaking a mundane Katana.



Maybe because the opponent has superior range because of the weapon, it would never happen anyway? Jyuuken on a piece of material that doesn't have chakra, literally does nothing, there's no way to overcome the difference in range without losing a limb.


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## Borel (Jan 9, 2010)

Level7N00b said:


> Yes, filler do count.


In that case the anime team's Hinata-fapping make Hinata the winner.


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## ~riku~ (Jan 9, 2010)

Kind of a big deal said:


> You make the assumption that gentle fist is superior, but is it really? Because others have said so? If it's so superior, why was Gai fighting Kisame instead of Neji? I can think of so many techniques that would beat gentle fist, it's a long list. That's just how it works, everything has counters. Gentle fist is not superior by definition.
> 
> Not only that, but let's assume (for the sake of argument) for a moment, that gentle fist is actually on a technical level better than what Lee and Gai do. Gai still fought Kisame instead of Neji. So why was that? Because Gai is stronger, more experienced, etcetera, and Neji is younger, not as fast, or as strong. So the person using the technique still has more influence on overall fighting ability than the actual technique itself.



It is Kishimoto's story, not yours. He puts two ninjas to fight - it's his decision. Juuken is superior because it damages your internal organs AND ruptures chakra flow. Or if your Byakugan is as good as Neji's, it can also completely stop your chakra flow. It also is very precise and accurate. 



> And as it just so happens, Hinata is the very weakest of the weaklings. She has never ever done anything but be weak throughout the entirity of the story. That's the whole point of her as a character, just like Shikamaru is a lazy genius with a sense of duty, Chouji is a fat kid who goes through fire for his friends, Hinata is a weak girl who admires strength of character. No matter how much techniques she hypothetically has, it can't overcome the fact that she's weak.



Manga>you and your ramblings. I'm simply am going with what she has shown, which is better than Sakura.




> Chakra being visible may be a big feat but it's pointless if not used properly.



She did. It didn't hit because she got blow back by Shinra Tensei.



> Naruto already had visible chakra in the academy when he made retarded bunshins. Does pre-kagebunshin Naruto also beat chuunin Sakura because he could make visible chakra? Not in a million years.



No he didn't. 



> Chouji managed to at least do more than just run up to Pain and get one-shotted. Sure, he wasn't on his own, but still there's really not much else to do a comparison with. Obviously she was never going to do anything other than lose when facing Pain, every single character would lose, that's totally not the point. The point is she lost so miserably.



Everyone lost against him - it's the same thing no matter how much you make it look worse for Hinata. 



Level7N00b said:


> Yes, filler do count.



Well that changes things. Hinata fucking owns Sakura then. But there is already another thread.



Borel said:


> Didn't Chiyo comment on her evasive abilities during the Sasori fight? I'm too lazy to dig up the manga page.
> Pink hair, fail heroine... sure, but she does win this battle.



Not that I remember. Since Chiyo was controlling her. Also, Sakura said it herself that she wasn't good at evading. 

No, she loses this battle terribly.



> A lot more than can be said of Hinata.



She has the Byakugan, she can do Juuken and Juuho Soshiken. That's three things, I don't see how Sakura's two is 'a lot.' also, now that filler is added in, Hinata's got a whole load more in her arsenal.



> Manga panel of these awesome taijutsu skills Hinata has?



I said her's is better. Databook says this and her fight against Neji showed this. Also, Sakura has no taijutsu skills, she only punches.



> Hinata has next to no feats...



Like Sakura.



> When has Sakura fought Hinata?



I meant when has Sakura ever landed a hit on any mobile ninja by herself.



> Exactly.



Aw, failed to detect the sarcasm? You could just admit that you're wrong and Sakura can't hit Hinata - it's not that hard.



> You keep mentioning Hinata's superior taijutsu, yet it is suspiciously absent from the manga.



She displayed Juuken against Neji. Databook also says her tai is better than Sakura's.

Hinata's are quick strikes which rupture chakra flow and does serious damage to internal organs. Sakura's are slow, predictable punches that anyone can evade.



> Agreed, being one-paneled by Pain isn't anything to be ashamed of.



Ah, for once you are right!


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## Bart (Jan 9, 2010)

Kind of a big deal said:


> Maybe because the opponent has superior range because of the weapon, it would never happen anyway? Jyuuken on a piece of material that doesn't have chakra, literally does nothing, there's no way to overcome the difference in range without losing a limb.



It has shown force though, and powerful force at that. He punched a person into a tree without even making contact to it.

*Neji hitting Kidomaru*


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## ~riku~ (Jan 9, 2010)

I think that was a two-fingered strike, not even a punch.


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## Borel (Jan 9, 2010)

~Riku~ said:


> Not that I remember. Since Chiyo was controlling her. Also, Sakura said it herself that she wasn't good at evading.


Fine, I'll dig it up...Meh, wasn't what I remembered.



> No, she loses this battle terribly.


Against filler Hinata she loses, but not against the one actually displayed in the manga.



> She has the Byakugan, she can do Juuken and Juuho Soshiken. That's three things, I don't see how Sakura's two is 'a lot.' also, now that filler is added in, Hinata's got a whole load more in her arsenal.


Yet she hasn't shown proficient use of those. Adding filler moves does guarantee Hinata a win, but that wouldn't be too interesting to discuss, now would it?




> I said her's is better. Databook says this and her fight against Neji showed this. Also, Sakura has no taijutsu skills, she only punches.


Databook says Kurenai is as good at genjutsu as Itachi. 



> I meant when has Sakura ever landed a hit on any mobile ninja by herself.


When has Hinata ever landed a hit on anyone?



> Aw, failed to detect the sarcasm? You could just admit that you're wrong and Sakura can't hit Hinata - it's not that hard.


I think someone else failed to detect sarcasm... and here I thought the "" was making it too obvious. 



> She displayed Juuken against Neji. Databook also says her tai is better than Sakura's.


She also got raped by Neji.



> Hinata's are quick strikes which rupture chakra flow and does serious damage to internal organs. Sakura's are slow, predictable punches that anyone can evade.


Anyone... except Sasori.



> Ah, for once you are right!


It does happen on occasion.


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## Arya Stark (Jan 9, 2010)

Hmm...Sakura fights with chakra focus,but Hinata can stop all chakra currents.
That would be a short battle.
Touch hands and legs...And...The end...


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## ensoriki (Jan 9, 2010)

Hinata (manga) takes this easy.
Even if we make no assumptions which we could make on natural increasing skill and the like and say shes only as good as she was in part 1.
Her part 1 strength is more than enough for current Sakura.

Sakura is inaccurate as fuck, the idea is IF she hits you your screwed but honestly that's not going to happen.

If we went with the idea Hinata naturally improved it would take one tenketsu strike to ruin the control of Sakura's chakra and give her mundane strength or at least make it even harder to control the punches she can barely connect with in the first place.

Though I'll go with Chuunin exam Hinata with inferring based on part 2 Pein attack.

She has shown greater agility and accuracy in part one than Sakura has in part two. With the Byakugan she quite clearly sees the chakra released from Sakura's fists, it's no mystery.
Against an opponent like Sakura who cannot release chakra in the fashion Neji can to protect against the Hyuuga style, Sakura has no natural defense against Hinata's attacks other than evasion. Unfortunately Sakura is not evasive, shes going to get hit, and shes going to get hit more times in the period it takes her to get one punch off, one punch that is easily evaded by the majority of the manga, from part two to part one.

Part two shoes her strength in releasing chakra has improved a fundamental necessity for the gentle fist (think I over did that fundamental necessity thing but w/e). We can safely infer that the chakra she can emit from her palms has come to the level at least of part one Neji.
Her taijutsu, evasion, agility accuracy, however theres no backing for that other than the chuunin exam, which is still more impressive than Sakura's accuracy.

Sakura can't hit, Hinata clearly can.
Even if Sakura attempts to be witty and attacks the ground that is still simply not a proficient way of removing a foe from the battle. The ease of jumping out of the way is a fodder level skill, it's not doing anything.

Sakura is more likely to get her hands grabbed and countered than her actually hitting.


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## ~riku~ (Jan 9, 2010)

Borel said:


> Fine, I'll dig it up...Meh, wasn't what I remembered.



Exactly.



This is where she said she didn't have the instant reaction to evade his attacks - Chiyo said she needed them. I don't expect Sakura to have that, but it is unfair to her character when people say how awesome her evasive skills are when Chiyo did all the work and Sakura admitted that she couldn't.



> Against filler Hinata she loses, but not against the one actually displayed in the manga.



Nope, Hinata still wins. It's simple. Since Sakura only knows how to punch, all Hinata has to to is dodge them, which isn't hard since her punches are slow and predictable. Hinata can see the punches before hand with her Byakugan, giving her further time to dodge. Or she can simply side step a punch towards her and strike her to rupture Sakura's chakra flow. Sakura can't use her chakra punches with full effect so Hinata can just strike at Sakura until she's fucked up on the inside.



> Yet she hasn't shown proficient use of those. Adding filler moves does guarantee Hinata a win, but that wouldn't be too interesting to discuss, now would it?



Byakugan - yes she has.
Juuken - Neji stopped her chakra so she couldn't. But Sakura is not Neji and she can't do Juuken either.
Juuho Soshiken - she got stopped by Pain. 



> Databook says Kurenai is as good at genjutsu as Itachi.



And how do you know she isn't? It only showed her use one genjutsu and it hardly ever shows her at all.



> When has Hinata ever landed a hit on anyone?



In her less than a quarter of Sakura's panel time? She's only had two opponents - Neji and Pain. Neji - she did hit him. Pain - he used Shinra Tensei. But Sakura isn't on Pain's level or Neji's level. She hasn't got Neji's experience of Juuken and how to evade it, since he trains with Hinata's father who uses Juuken against him. 



> I think someone else failed to detect sarcasm... and here I thought the "" was making it too obvious.



I mistook you for a anti-Hinata fan who would be serious. The main point of my statement there was: 'You could just admit that you're wrong and Sakura can't hit Hinata - it's not that hard.'



> She also got raped by Neji.



Is Sakura Neji? Would Sakura have fared as well as Hinata against Neji?



> Anyone... except Sasori.



Oh, didn't the OP state it? Chiyo isn't here to help Sakura. And Hinata doesn't have a big tail that Sakura can grab.



> It does happen on occasion.



amazing.


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## Godaime Tsunade (Jan 9, 2010)

Hinatas gentle Fist style is deadly for any medic nin to go up against. Since it can stop them from healing.
However,Hinata isnt profficient enough at using it. Sakura-whose evasive enough to dodge Sasoris puppets fairly well by herself, should have no problem dodging Hinatas attacks. One punch and its over for Hinata.

Sakura wins.


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## Arya Stark (Jan 9, 2010)

Gondaime Tsunade said:


> Hinatas gentle Fist style is deadly for any medic nin to go up against. Since it can stop them from healing.
> However,Hinata isnt profficient enough at using it. Sakura-whose evasive enough to dodge Sasoris puppets fairly well *by herself,* should have no problem dodging Hinatas attacks. One punch and its over for Hinata.
> 
> Sakura wins.



Sorry? There is a old-women called Chiyo-baa too


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## ~riku~ (Jan 9, 2010)

Gondaime Tsunade said:


> Hinatas gentle Fist style is deadly for any medic nin to go up against. Since it can stop them from healing.
> However,Hinata isnt profficient enough at using it.



where's your proof?



> Sakura-whose evasive enough to dodge Sasoris puppets fairly well by herself,



Proof?  



> should have no problem dodging Hinatas attacks. One punch and its over for Hinata.



This whole statement is invalid until you give me a panel of Sakura dodging by herself.



> Sakura wins.



Sakura loses.


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## Kurama (Jan 9, 2010)

This again?

Sakura punches.

Hinata parries.

[/Sakura's hope at winning]


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## Borel (Jan 9, 2010)

~Riku~ said:


> Exactly.
> 
> 
> 
> This is where she said she didn't have the instant reaction to evade his attacks - Chiyo said she needed them. I don't expect Sakura to have that, but it is unfair to her character when people say how awesome her evasive skills are when Chiyo did all the work and Sakura admitted that she couldn't.


That's not really saying much... the only character that has "instant" reactions is pretty much R2 Raikage.



> Nope, Hinata still wins. It's simple. Since Sakura only knows how to punch, all Hinata has to to is dodge them, which isn't hard since her punches are slow and predictable. Hinata can see the punches before hand with her Byakugan, giving her further time to dodge. Or she can simply side step a punch towards her and strike her to rupture Sakura's chakra flow. Sakura can't use her chakra punches with full effect so Hinata can just strike at Sakura until she's fucked up on the inside.


Sasuke saying KB's moves were predictable didn't stop KB from ripping his chest apart a couple of times.



> Byakugan - yes she has.
> Juuken - Neji stopped her chakra so she couldn't. But Sakura is not Neji and she can't do Juuken either.
> Juuho Soshiken - she got stopped by Pain.


There are different levels of proficiency... Hinata's level for instance isn't too impressive.



> And how do you know she isn't? It only showed her use one genjutsu and it hardly ever shows her at all.


I'm just saying that when two people with the same stat in genjutsu have a genjutsu fight it shouldn't be so horribly onesided.



> In her less than a quarter of Sakura's panel time? She's only had two opponents - Neji and Pain. Neji - she did hit him. Pain - he used Shinra Tensei. But Sakura isn't on Pain's level or Neji's level. She hasn't got Neji's experience of Juuken and how to evade it, since he trains with Hinata's father who uses Juuken against him.


Her fight against Pain wasn't really a fight. 



> I mistook you for a anti-Hinata fan who would be serious. The main point of my statement there was: 'You could just admit that you're wrong and Sakura can't hit Hinata - it's not that hard.'


I don't really have any personal preference for either one.



> Is Sakura Neji? Would Sakura have fared as well as Hinata against Neji?


Not as well, but good enough to beat her (not pre-skip, obviously).



> Oh, didn't the OP state it? Chiyo isn't here to help Sakura. And Hinata doesn't have a big tail that Sakura can grab.


I didn't see Sasori jumping away from Sakura when she crushed Hirako or yanking away Sandaime Kazekage when he got destroyed... neither did he do a good job of avoiding Sakura when he first revealed his puppet form.





> amazing.


Ain't it?


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## ensoriki (Jan 9, 2010)

Quite honestly when Part ONE Hinata's Attack speed, and reflex's from one battle are GOOD enough to make this argument, than ignoring the blatant implications that shes improved are the only reasons to think Sakura could win this at all.
Hell not even part 1, this is damn chuunin exam Hinata your comparing to Post skip Sakura.
And Chuunin Exam Hinata is making this look difficult.
It's not a contest Sakura is fucked.


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## Sumon (Jan 9, 2010)

Kind of a big deal said:


> Really? A metal sword is made out of chakra? Bones are made out of chakra too now? Obviously Hidan's scythe is constructed from pure chakra as well. So silly of me.



Ninjas imbue their chakra to the weapons and etc. to make them better. For example: Kimimaro imbued his chakra into his bones to make them stronger than steel.



Borel said:


> Databook says Kurenai is as good at genjutsu as Itachi.



Everyone's genjutsu becomes peace of shit against those god damned eyes.


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## Shinobi66 (Jan 9, 2010)

Sakura was able to evade Sasori's attacks, Chiyo said it herself:  



and its hilarious to say that Hinata can dodge Sakura's attacks but not the other way around. Tsunade taught Sakura how to evade so why wouldn't she be able to:




And why are people referring to the attack that Hinata used against Pain as evidence of her victory. We have NO IDEA what that attack would do if it landed so how can we take it into account?

Like one of the posters mentionecd: how can you say Hinata has superior taijustsu? She's been owned by both of her only opponents so we can't even judge her. Atleast Sakura's actually survived her encounter with higher level opponents without being left in critical condition.

And Sakura does have feats: destroying the Kazekage puppet by outsmarting Sasori, one-shotting a boss-sized summon, healing someone a village couldnt, etc...Hinata?...


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## Sumon (Jan 9, 2010)

Shinobi66 said:


> Sakura was able to evade Sasori's attacks, Chiyo said it herself:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You got to be kidding. If not Chyio, then Sakura would've died from Sasori's first attack. Hiruko's direct tail hit was stopped by Chyio in front of Sakura's face.
And about evading attacks. Sakura's punches are direct, enhanced with chakra. And did you see how Hinata moves in Searching for Bikouchi arc (or smth like that)?


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## Godaime Tsunade (Jan 9, 2010)

FirstMoon said:


> Sorry? There is a old-women called Chiyo-baa too



who said Sakura was dodging Sasoris puppets fairly well without her help. Chiyo was only using one hand at this point.


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## Shinobi66 (Jan 9, 2010)

Chiyo said it herself that Sakura was analyzing Sasori's attack pattern and could avoid the attacks without her help. Obviously she couldn't do it from the beginning, she learned in the middle of the battle, which shows she can adapt to a fight. So even if Hinata were to shut down one of Sakura's chakra points (which she can't do, everyone was surprised to see Neji do it during the fight), Sakura would learn to avoid it.

And its not like one attack from Hinata will incapacitate Sakura. Hinata's attacks during her fight against Neji were to deliver blows to his organs, not shut off his chakra points because she doesnt' know how to do that. So her blows could be healed by Sakura.


And LMAO at you mentioning that arc. Thats FILLER. If you are really taking that into account than I really cannot take you seriously.

Edit: this is directed towards Sumon's post


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## Godaime Tsunade (Jan 9, 2010)

~Riku~ said:


> where's your proof?
> 
> Chiyo said Sakura was dodging Sasoris puppets fairly well without her help. Chiyo was only using one hand at this point.
> 
> ...



My point-proof


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## Shinobi66 (Jan 9, 2010)

And someone mentioned before that Hinata could just dodge all of Sakura's "slow, predictable attacks" but when has Hinata ever shown the ability to do that? She's been hit by EVERY attack that has ever been directed at her.

Sakura has been trained by Tsunade to focus on evading attacks during battles.


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## ensoriki (Jan 9, 2010)

Shinobi66 said:


> And someone mentioned before that Hinata could just dodge all of Sakura's "slow, predictable attacks" but when has Hinata ever shown the ability to do that? She's been hit by EVERY attack that has ever been directed at her.
> 
> Sakura has been trained by Tsunade to focus on evading attacks during battles.



Shes also shown the hand speed (attacking speed) faster than Sakura.
She could fuck Sakura up in the time it took for Sakura to connect as well as divert her hands. By the time Sakura connects shes fucked up on palm strikes and drops.


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## Shinobi66 (Jan 9, 2010)

LMAO, Hinata is not speedblitzing anyone. Really its impossible that she would be able to land so many attacks while her opponent who is atleast the same speed as her, hasn't landed a single attack. She is not that fast.


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## ensoriki (Jan 9, 2010)

Shinobi66 said:


> LMAO, Hinata is not speedblitzing anyone. Really its impossible that she would be able to land so many attacks while her opponent who is atleast the same speed as her, hasn't landed a single attack. She is not that fast.


Heres were the joke is.
Only thing people can run off is chuunin exams for christ sake, there comparing part 2 Sakura to part one Hinata, not at the end of Part one because we didn't see her there, the bloody chuunin exams.
Very few people have inferred anything because the ability to infer is dead.
Theres an implication she can perform the palms, which would inherently make her attack speed greater than Sakura.


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## Godaime Tsunade (Jan 9, 2010)

ensoriki said:


> Shes also shown the hand speed (attacking speed) faster than Sakura.
> She could fuck Sakura up in the time it took for Sakura to connect as well as divert her hands. By the time Sakura connects shes fucked up on palm strikes and drops.



Sakura doesnt need to get close range. A punch to the ground should knock over Hinata and injure her should she try to approach Sakura.

Hinata hasnt shown the same speed as Sakura. As Sakura displayed against Sasori,she was capable of hitting and destroying several puppets in a few seconds. Hinata can move her arms fast, but without her filler moves- that doesnt matter. Her actual body speed isnt as good as Sakuras.


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## firework (Jan 9, 2010)

-snip- stop pointing to the *filler anime* and *what Hinata hasnt shown*. For all we know, Sakura hasn't shown the machine gun hidden in her breast. And _filler isn't canon_.

Sakura has more taijutsu feats than Hinata ergo Sakura is a better taijutsu-ist. Hinata has two feats: against Neji and Pain. Sakura has more: against Sound nin, Ino, Sasori, etc. In particular, she matched Ino, who i believe was stated to be the best Taijutsu-ist amongst girls (<---not cartain about this one, anyone got databook stats). 

Sakura runs in, God-punches Hinata while getting hit by Juuken. Hinata dies, and Sakura is in mortal condition for the win.


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## Cjones (Jan 9, 2010)

This has been done so many times.

Sakura wins, because she actually has feats.


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## Santeira (Jan 9, 2010)

Canon: Funny not even once Sakura has punched the ground and injured anyone. She could have saved herself from being kicked by Omoi if she did that but she didn't--which suggests it isn't as easy as some make it to be. IC Sakura only rushed in all the time.

Sakura did not dodge by herself in Sasori vs. Chiyo, she was a puppet. She did dodge some of the iron boulders by predicting the attack pattern from Sasori's fingers--but that feat wouldn't be useful against a real Taijutsu user like Hinata. 

Unless Sakura has Neji's level of Taijutsu, she might get hit by Hinata too--just as much chance as Hinata getting hit by her. It's a 50-50 fight, and I don't know who will win.

Filler (if we go by OP): Hinata wins.


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## Shinobi66 (Jan 10, 2010)

Santeira said:


> Canon: Funny not even once Sakura has punched the ground and injured anyone. She could have saved herself from being kicked by Omoi if she did that but she didn't--which suggests it isn't as easy as some make it to be. IC Sakura only rushed in all the time.
> 
> Sakura did not dodge by herself in Sasori vs. Chiyo, she was a puppet. She did dodge some of the iron boulders by predicting the attack pattern from Sasori's fingers--but that feat wouldn't be useful against a real Taijutsu user like Hinata.
> 
> ...



Oh well, Sakura has rushed in and been beaten back a couple times, that happens to Hinata EVERY time she's attacked someone.

And just because she didn't do the earth breaking punch in every fight doesn't mean she can't do it. You don't see Jiraiya using Swamp of the Underworld in all of his fights, despite the fact that it would probably be an instant fight-ender. 

Maybe that attack wouldn't hurt Hinata, but it would disorient her, giving Sakura an opening.

And you imply that if Hinata and Sakura both hit each other, they'd be even. But thats not what would happen. Sakura would kill Hinata and Sakura would be injured (not critically). I don't see how thats 50-50. If Hinata gets close enough to land a hit, Sakura punches back and kills her. Really, Hinata is not that fast.

And as for that poster that said we have to assume Hinata's improved, we can't because we don't know how much. We basically can only judge her according to her Chuunin Exam showing since she hasn't done anything since. We can't just make up what isn't there. And where exactly has it been stated that she improved? I dont remember that.


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## K (Jan 10, 2010)

*Sakura.*
*wait*,_ how much face time did Sakura get with Pein?_
_I dunno_, _chopped between chapters_
*But i did see Hinata get pwned by Shinra Tensei though.*


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## Shinobi66 (Jan 10, 2010)

Oh, and as for this misinformed comment:



~Riku~ said:


> I meant when has Sakura ever landed a hit on any mobile ninja by herself.













She's actually hit a few opponents

Thats much more than I could say for Hinata


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## Santeira (Jan 10, 2010)

Shinobi66 said:


> Oh well, Sakura has rushed in and been beaten back a couple times, that happens to Hinata EVERY time she's attacked someone.



She was up against the strongest opponents at the time, the same conclusion can't be made with attacking Sakura because Sakura is nowhere near Neji and Pain's level.



> And just because she didn't do the earth breaking punch in every fight doesn't mean she can't do it. You don't see Jiraiya using Swamp of the Underworld in all of his fights, despite the fact that it would probably be an instant fight-ender.



She can do it of course, but you have to consider:-

1) If it is really necessary since it won't do anyting to a Ninja to throw them off-balance. This is Ninja we're talking about here--not some statue. 
2) The chakra she would waste to punch the ground for something that isn't most likely to succeed should be saved for medical jutsus and even a real punch to the Shinobi involved.
3) If it's_ that easy_, Kishi would have shown Sakura do it and succeed.

The post meant to convey, it is not a matter of whether she _can_ or not, but whether she _needs_ to do it or not, since it would most likely waste her chakra with no guarantee of success.



> Maybe that attack wouldn't hurt Hinata, but it would disorient her, giving Sakura an opening.



That is not convincing. Hinata is a Ninja and will not most likely get disoriented with a ground punch. 



> And as for that poster that said we have to assume Hinata's improved, we can't because we don't know how much. We basically can only judge her according to her Chuunin Exam showing since she hasn't done anything since. We can't just make up what isn't there.



It is not an assumption. Hinata has shown reflexes, ability to dodge, parry and even hit with her Jyuuken in Neji vs. Hinata. _Jyuuken here is the key_, because a simple dab from Hinata will most likely disturb Sakura's chakra flow and that will disable her from using the Chakra-enhanced punch and Shousen jutsu in the strict sense, as well as injuring her Internal organs (because Jyuuken attacks the chakra producing organs). This is only basing her ability on the Chuunin exams.


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## Shinobi66 (Jan 10, 2010)

Santeira said:


> She was up against the strongest opponents at the time, the same conclusion can't be made with attacking Sakura because Sakura is nowhere near Neji and Pain's level.
> 
> She can do it of course, but you have to consider:-
> 
> ...



You're right she wouldn't need that ground punch, she could win with out it.

As for it not disorienting opponents: Naruto was standing behind her and he almost fell over, the ground would split UNDER Hinata. How is that not disorienting? It would completely knock her over:



Disorienting an enemy with a trap, bunshin, etc is a basic tactic used over and over in the manga. So, statue or ninja, she will be affected by it. Oh, and it didn't seem to waste much chakra since it barely affected her.

And you've got to be kidding about that "If it's_ that easy_, Kishi would have shown Sakura do it and succeed". Kishi never uses the same tactic twice. And besides, Sakura hasn't had the opportunity to do that. It'd be useless against Sasori since he fights long distance, and against Omoi it would have been a bad idea since her teammates would have been caught in it.

As for Hinata using Jyuken to seal chakra, she wouldn't be able to hit Sakura enought o completely keep her from using any chakra. Sakura would punch her as Hinata is attacking, really Hinata can't just speedblitz Sakura.

And about your last little paragraph, that didn't seem to respond to what I was saying., I was saying that we can't assume that she's improved since we haven't seen this improvement and we've never even heard that she's improved


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## Santeira (Jan 10, 2010)

Shinobi66 said:


> You're right she wouldn't need that ground punch, she could win with out it.


Debatable.



> As for it not disorienting opponents: Naruto was standing behind her and he almost fell over, the ground would split UNDER Hinata how is that not disorienting. It would completely knock her over:
> 
> 
> 
> Disorienting an enemy with a trap, bunshin, etc is a basic tactic used over and over in the manga. Oh, and it didn't seem to waste much chakra since it barely affected her.



1) Naruto was not expecting the punch, and unlike Hinata, he was not able to see the flow of Sakura's chakra pathway. Three things you have to consider:-

i) Hinata would be able to see the build of Chakra flow in Sakura's fist as she hit the ground and Hinata could simply jump.
ii) The punch was to open up the ground for someone who was able to do Subterranean Voyage
iii) IC Sakura would not do that first since she did not do it when attacking Omoi or Sasuke.

2) It doesn't affect her because she still have Chakra reserves left, but she does not have much and she can't do the chakra-enhanced punch all the time. In a fight she has to consider this thing, because Chakra is too precious to be gambled away like that. 



> And you've got to be kidding about that "If it's_ that easy_, Kishi would have shown Sakura do it and succeed". Kishi never uses the same tactic twice. And besides, Sakura hasn't had the opportunity to do that. It'd be useless against Sasori since he fights long distance, and against Omoi it would have been a bad idea since her teammates would have been caught in it.



I said, that tactic was to open up the ground to expose Kakashi who has the _Subterranean Voyage_ ability. Kishi has used the KB feints with Naruto a few times. Why would you say he wouldn't do the same tactics twice?  Clearly he is not showing it because he had put levels in his Ninjas and one would wonder if a Chuunin like Hinata would be disoriented from something like that--because if it's that easy, Sakura would have done it against Omoi and Sasuke--you said yourself it will create an opening so why bother about disoriented friends when she can always punch disoriented Sasuke and Omoi right away? They would be K.O'd right there and then, hmm? 



> And as for Hinata using Jyuken to seal chakra, she wouldn't be able to hit Sakura enought o completely keep her from using any chakra. Sakura would punch her as Hinata is attacking, really Hinata can't just speedblitz Sakura


I'm not saying speedblitz. Jyuuken is a real martial arts, in its short display both Neji and Hinata has shown that it is a lithe, expeditious form of martial arts compared to Sakura's 'raise fist, rush in and hope to hit'. You have to consider too that Hinata has the Byakugan and is also capable of sneak-attack, trap and such. It is not sealing chakra BTW, just disturbing the flow and damaging the Chakra-producing organs. Bunshin is basic academy Jutsu and can be used by any Genin. So I don't see how this increases Sakura's chance without increasing Hinata's chance all the same.


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## Shinobi66 (Jan 10, 2010)

Sakura would not use that attack if it would endanger her allies. So she WOULD NOT use it in those situations. 

She used that attack in that situation to get Kakashi to come out. But how can you deny that it would not be useful in any other situation. And last time I checked, the chakra-enhanced punches do not use up so much chakra. Look at the fight with Sasori, that's one of the longest fights in Naruto and Sakura was punching until the end.

And you're making Hinata to be some sort of Byakugan expert here when she has not shown ANY of those skills.

Hinata has a good tool (the Byakugan) but she is no expert at using it. As Madara so wisely asserted: "A master with a pebble can beat a novice with a shuriken". Just because Hinata has a superior fighting style, does not mean she can beat someone who doesn't have it. And you act like Sakura just randomly punches. She's been trained in taijutsu so she know how to fight. 

And I know Hinata cannot seal chakra, which is why her attacks would not OHK Sakura, as opposed to other way around, in which case they would.


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## Santeira (Jan 10, 2010)

Shinobi66 said:


> Sakura would not use that attack if it would endanger her allies. So she WOULD NOT use it in those situations.


Proof? Did not she ask Lee, Kiba and Sai to search for Sasuke when Kakashi said she is_ essentially marching to her death_? Isn't she putting her friends lives on the line there? So, if the percent of success is high and her friends would just get disoriented, _she could have taken the chance, unless there is no guarantee of success_. 



> She used that attack in that situation to get Kakashi to come out. But how can you deny that it would not be useful in any other situation. And last time I checked, the chakra-enhanced punches do not use up so much chakra. Look at the fight with Sasori, that's one of the longest fights in Naruto and Sakura was punching until the end.



She did not use the chakra-enhanced punch all the time in that fight. She punched puppets, which were most likely solidified cadavers and could break from simple punches--not necessarily the chakra-enhanced ones.  



> And you're making Hinata to be some sort of Byakugan expert here when she has not shown ANY of those skills.



In the Chuunin exams, she used it to find out Gaara to save her teammates. In the retrieve Itachi/Sasuke, she used it to spot Amaterasu that was 10km away. I don't see how the use here would be any different--not forgetting the 360 degree vision too. 



> Hinata has a good tool (the Byakugan) but she is no expert at using it. As Madara so wisely asserted: "A master with a pebble can beat a novice with a shuriken". Just because Hinata has a superior fighting style, does not mean she can beat someone who doesn't have it. And you act like Sakura just randomly punches. She's been trained in taijutsu so she know how to fight.
> 
> And I know Hinata cannot seal chakra, which is why her attacks would not OHK Sakura, as opposed to other way around, in which case they would.


That is clearly wrong. She was against Neji, who had the exact same ability, only better in the Chuunin exams and after skip, she has shown better scouting than Neji. _So how does that compare to Sakura who doesn't have that tool?_ As far as I'm seeing it, Sakura has only rushed in and tried punching. Hinata has shown the ability to parry (so she can block and push Sakura's fist away and has even hit in the Neji Vs. Hinata). Until Sakura shows that she can actually do these things (Taijutsu parry, block and hit), I say both of them has equal chance, though I'm leaning more towards Hinata simply because she has shown actual Taijutsu feat in the Chuunin exam. Sakura will win if she has middle to long-range attack too, but both of them don't have those.


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## The Big G (Jan 10, 2010)

I personally think that until each of them get a legitimate solo fight  in Part II we can't come to full answer.


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## Kurama (Jan 10, 2010)

Shinobi66 said:


> And why are people referring to the attack that Hinata used against Pain as evidence of her victory. We have NO IDEA what that attack would do if it landed so how can we take it into account?



Well it surely wasn't meant to tickle the man that was about to take away the love of her life to his death, I don't think. It's obviously a finisher.



> Like one of the posters mentionecd: how can you say Hinata has superior taijustsu? She's been owned by both of her only opponents so we can't even judge her. Atleast Sakura's actually survived her encounter with higher level opponents without being left in critical condition.



When you have one who's offense relies almost entirely on augmenting their strength with chakra against someone who's offense and defense lay in manipulation of their opponents chakra, it should be rather obvious which taijutsu is superior.

Hinata's opponents, in comparison to Sakura's at the respective times, were FAR more advanced. Sakura could only tie with Ino. Hinata went head to head with NEJI and fought until she collapsed from cardiac arrest [meaning she was still going even with the tenketsu in her arms sealed (rendering jyuuken and by association Sakura's strength useless) and her heart torn to shreds (which allows the argument that one punch from Sakura might not keep her down, IF it lands in the first place). Sasori was tailor made to show Sakura's improvements, but she would've died if Chiyo didn't save that last antidote after getting stabbed in the gut. Pain was too much even for Sage Naruto to handle, but Hinata forced him back several feet before he Shinra Tensei'd her,[decided to risk waiting for his ability to recharge again rather than, say, DODGE and attack with his chakra rods] and stabbed her, which interfered with her chakra flow, rendering her paralyzed.




> And Sakura does have feats: destroying the Kazekage puppet by outsmarting Sasori,


By playing possum. Byakugan cancels this by seeing build up of chakra for the attack.



> one-shotting a boss-sized summon,


Ambushed. Cancelled by 360 vision.



> healing someone a village couldnt,


Pure hype, and is irrelevant to this fight since Hinata isn't using poison.



> Hinata?...


Went up against a genius at her own style, and lasted much longer than anyone thought she would. Showed speed, taijutsu and agility.



Shinobi66 said:


> Chiyo said it herself that Sakura was analyzing Sasori's attack pattern and could avoid the attacks without her help. Obviously she couldn't do it from the beginning, she learned in the middle of the battle, which shows she can adapt to a fight. So even if Hinata were to shut down one of Sakura's chakra points (which she can't do, everyone was surprised to see Neji do it during the fight), Sakura would learn to avoid it.



Can she learn fast enough before her chakra flow in her arms is negated though?



> And its not like one attack from Hinata will incapacitate Sakura. Hinata's attacks during her fight against Neji were to deliver blows to his organs, not shut off his chakra points because she doesnt' know how to do that. So her blows could be healed by Sakura.



Show me where Sakura was able to fight while simultaneously healing herself. Show me where Sakura was able to evade or even move while healing herself.

It's not like Hinata's just going to hit Sakura with a single juuken strike and back off while she heals herself. She's stay on the offensive [that is, if she was to go on the offensive, since all she needs to do to win is fight defensively and parry Sakura's attacks when they come, likely only going offensive if Sakura starts running. And if so, Sakura better evade her ass off.



firework said:


> -snip- stop pointing to the *filler anime* and *what Hinata hasnt shown*. For all we know, Sakura hasn't shown the machine gun hidden in her breast. And _filler isn't canon_.



OP said fillers are allowed, but even without, Sakura only has the advantage of Hinata not having the confirmed ability of SEALING tenketsu [via 32 palms]. Hinata can still injure internal organs and damage the chakra coils.

And then there's Juho Soshiken. The "Definitely isn't gonna tickle" no jutsu.



> Sakura has more taijutsu feats than Hinata ergo Sakura is a better taijutsu-ist.


Wait, what? Sakura had more fights so that means she's the better fighter? Sarutobi only fought once, and it was pretty much all ninjutsu. Are you telling me Sakura is better at Taijutsu than him?



> Hinata has two feats: against Neji and Pain.


Both of which would stomp anyone else [of the girls] either quicker or just as quickly as they stomped Hinata.



> Sakura has more: against Sound nin, Ino, Sasori, etc.


Against Sound nin and Ino, none of which were as impressive as Hinata's bout against Neji. As for Sasori, he was tailor made to show off her improvement, and she had help.



> In particular, she matched Ino, who i believe was stated to be the best Taijutsu-ist amongst girls (<---not cartain about this one, anyone got databook stats).


Trying to use her tie with Ino as a positive when it was followed by Hinata's match against Neji [which showed much faster taijutsu than the basic academy level borefest that was Ino vs Sakura] isn't what I'd call a great idea.



> Sakura runs in, God-punches Hinata while getting hit by Juuken. Hinata dies, and Sakura is in mortal condition for the win.



Yes, because Sakura's arm is like a battering ram that just cannot be stopped by anything. It's not like its simply chakra concentrated at the point of the fist to be released on contact that can be easily parried at the wrist or arm by someone specialized in taijutsu.

Oh wait.

As I said before, Sakura punches, Hinata parries, opening Sakura up for multiple jyuuken strikes.


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## Borel (Jan 10, 2010)

You can't just take anything Neji has done and give it to Hinata because they're of the same clan... Neji is a prodigy and a genius while Hinata isn't.


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## Shinobi66 (Jan 10, 2010)

^ This

She fought Neji and got her @$$ kicked, terribly. The only semi-impressive thing she did was get back up so she could get beaten back. I don't get how she showed anything impressive. She thought she was fighting evenly with him in the beginning and instead it was revealed that he had closed up the poins in her arm. 

She didnot parry his attacks so what makes you think she can do it to anyone else? especially someone who has super strength!

And she did not force Pain back, he side stepped her attacks and used a counter that did not require his lifting of a finger.


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## Valtieri (Jan 10, 2010)

I've scanned through the posts in this thread and my opinions remains exactly the same:
Sakura would crush Hinata.


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## Kurama (Jan 10, 2010)

Borel said:


> You can't just take anything Neji has done and give it to Hinata because they're of the same clan... Neji is a prodigy and a genius while Hinata isn't.



Care to point out anywhere that I gave her what Neji has done? Her match with him showed a skill that far surpassed what was shown by Sakura in her fight with Ino. Neji was holding back, yet it was still a higher level than what Sakura was capable of, and Sakura still hasn't shown taijutsu skill of that level as of now [since y'all in the battledome like going by "feats" when it supposedly benefits your argument, show me a taijutsu feat by Sakura that could match up to what we saw in Hinata vs Neji]. All she's shown is she can break things with her punches and dodge linear attacks, though she admits she isn't that good at it.



Shinobi66 said:


> ^ This
> 
> She fought Neji and got her @$$ kicked, terribly. The only semi-impressive thing she did was get back up so she could get beaten back. I don't get how she showed anything impressive. She thought she was fighting evenly with him in the beginning and instead it was revealed that he had closed up the poins in her arm.



And it was still a higher level of taijutsu than we've seen from Sakura.



> She didnot parry his attacks so what makes you think she can do it to anyone else? especially someone who has super strength!



Yes, she did. And need I repeat the nature of Sakura's "super strength" again? It's chakra built up to the point of the fist and released on contact. It doesn't make her entire arm an unstoppable juggernaut that would rip Hinata's hands off if she attempts to parry. All Hinata needs to do is brush her wrists to the side, which is a jyuuken strike in itself.



> And she did not force Pain back, he side stepped her attacks and used a counter that did not require his lifting of a finger.






*Spoiler*: __ 





Looks like he hopped back quite a distance there...



Looks like he's backing up some more. And wait, what's that? He lifted an arm and used his signature jutsu forcing him to have to recharge in order to not get hit by Juho Soshiken. Funny thing is, judging by the fact that he was about to use Bansho Tennin on Naruto [through the rods...OUCH] before she hopped in, it wasn't like he needed to wait to recharge while she was attacking. He used it once she pulled out Juho Soshiken, which means he could not dodge it. So if he couldn't, how would Sakura?




Try again.


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## Anberlina (Jan 10, 2010)

Given that I think Sakura is better at dodging Hinata's attacks than Hinata is at dodging Sakuras, i'm gonna give this one to Sakura. And i'm not sure about this one but if Sakura was hit she could heal herself also. But I think it basically just depends on whoever lands the first hit.


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## Shinobi66 (Jan 10, 2010)

kyuubi425 said:


> Care to point out anywhere that I gave her what Neji has done? Her match with him showed a skill that far surpassed what was shown by Sakura in her fight with Ino. Neji was holding back, yet it was still a higher level than what Sakura was capable of, and Sakura still hasn't shown taijutsu skill of that level as of now [since y'all in the battledome like going by "feats" when it supposedly benefits your argument, show me a taijutsu feat by Sakura that could match up to what we saw in Hinata vs Neji]. All she's shown is she can break things with her punches and dodge linear attacks, though she admits she isn't that good at it.
> 
> And it was still a higher level of taijutsu than we've seen from Sakura.
> 
> ...



You're obviously a massive Hinata fanboy who sees things that aren't there. You are completely overrating her laughable displays of so-called "skill" and its clear you can't be reasoned with so I'll leave you in your delusional fantasy land where Hinata is awesome...


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## knives907 (Jan 10, 2010)

I'm still waiting for someone to show me where it says Hinata can close tenketsu or disrupt her chakra system.

Hinata has gentle fist which attacks the coils that surround the organs, making internal damage possible


Hinata does not have the insight Neji has, Neji is the only one shown to see the opening points


Kakashi even explains it clear as day that the attacks on her *chakra opening points* disabled her chakra, something Hinata cannot even see.


So no, Hinata will not be cutting off Sakura's chakra.


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## Santeira (Jan 11, 2010)

Pardon me, but where did anyone say she can seal tenketsu?


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## Ice Prince (Jan 11, 2010)

I would assume Hinata has better odds based on her fighting style.

Juuken, at the very least, disrupts the chakra flow--something Sakura has to heavily rely on for her stronger attacks.  It should be obvious she at least know how to disrupt chakra flow--afterall, that's what Juuken's whole style revolves around.  She's had training from Neji as well, so I'd say it's pretty much spot on that she can at least disrupt the chakra flow of her opponents.

Without chakra use, Sakura is pretty much a sitting duck.


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## Borel (Jan 11, 2010)

kyuubi425 said:


> Care to point out anywhere that I gave her what Neji has done? Her match with him showed a skill that far surpassed what was shown by Sakura in her fight with Ino. Neji was holding back, yet it was still a higher level than what Sakura was capable of, and Sakura still hasn't shown taijutsu skill of that level as of now [since y'all in the battledome like going by "feats" when it supposedly benefits your argument, show me a taijutsu feat by Sakura that could match up to what we saw in Hinata vs Neji]. All she's shown is she can break things with her punches and dodge linear attacks, though she admits she isn't that good at it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A lot of assumptions there. Why would Pain be able to dodge a point blank FRS but have to retreat because he can't dodge Hinata's random attack which he saw coming a mile away?


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## knives907 (Jan 11, 2010)

Santeira said:


> Pardon me, but where did anyone say she can seal tenketsu?





			
				you said:
			
		

> Jyuuken here is the key, because a simple dab from Hinata will most likely *disturb Sakura's chakra flow and that will disable her from using the Chakra-enhanced punch* and Shousen jutsu in the strict sense,



As i've already proven, she cannot do this. She cannot do this. It took Neji a feat of completely plugging up her arm tenketsu to prevent her from using jyuuken, who was completely outclassing Hinata. That is not the case here, nor does Hinata(now or then) have the ability to seal any tenketsu. Besides this, Sakura is said to have amazing chakra control, it would damn near make a miracle for Hinata to stop her from using her chakra.



			
				you said:
			
		

> She was against Neji, who had the exact same ability, only better in the Chuunin exams and after skip



She is missing the key ability to actually disrupting Sakura's jutsus to the point where she can no longer mold chakra in her hands.


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## Watchman (Jan 11, 2010)

The Big G said:


> I personally think that until each of them get a legitimate solo fight  in Part II we can't come to full answer.



This. We have no idea how Hinata would fare against Sakura, because the only thing we've seen Hinata do post-timeskip is take on an enemy FAR out of her league. We might as well put Post Lee in a match - all we'd be able to do is speculate that "their original abilities have grown *this* much over the timeskip! Honest!"


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## Santeira (Jan 11, 2010)

knives907 said:


> As i've already proven, she cannot do this. She cannot do this. It took Neji a feat of completely plugging up her arm tenketsu to prevent her from using jyuuken, who was completely outclassing Hinata. That is not the case here, nor does Hinata(now or then) have the ability to seal any tenketsu.


Well, you've only 'proven' Hinata couldn't do Jyuuken after her Tenketsu was sealed--which everybody knows. If Sakura can seal Tenketsu, sure Hinata can't disturb her chakra flow. If you look at previous pages in the links you've shown, you'll understand what Jyuuken does. Carefully read what Kakashi and Lee said. _I didn't say she could seal Tenketsu._ Read carefully. 



> Besides this, Sakura is said to have amazing chakra control, it would damn near make a miracle for Hinata to stop her from using her chakra.


You need to show some proof that people with precise Chakra control can't be affected by Jyuuken--given that Lee said Jyuuken is the strongest form of Taijutsu and _even a slight tap is enough to attack the chakra coil_. Sakura was said to have _precise_ Chakra control--not _amazing_. Jyuuken is a style that attacks the inner Chakra coil directly, and the internal organs connected to the Chakra coil. 



> She is missing the key ability to actually disrupting Sakura's jutsus to the point where she can no longer mold chakra in her hands.



I never said she could seal Tenketsu. I said she would disrupt Chakra flow because _Hinata can utilize Jyuuken_.  . Kakashi mentioned it, "her chakra is sealed, she can no longer do her Gentle Fist". It didn't suggest that she couldn't do Gentle Fist.



			
				me said:
			
		

> that will disable her from using the Chakra-enhanced punch and Shousen jutsu in the strict sense,



If I were to rephrase/reword what I wrote, it would be "disable her from using Chakra-enhanced punch _properly_". Pay attention to what I meant with the phrase "*in the strict sense*". It's just simple case of wordplay that you misunderstood. Thank you.

When I said "exact same ability but Neji's was better"--I was referring to Byakugan, as I was responding to that Shinobi66 dude about it being  a _tool_ that Sakura did not possess.

Also, you need to prove Sakura can dodge and parry too if she's really good at Taijutsu. The ones where she wasn't helped by Chiyo. If she can at least dodge/parry on her own (Taijutsu strike), I'd say sakura wins. Now, do that.


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## Soul (Jan 11, 2010)

Sakura wins with moderate difficulty.

She just has more feats, more strength, and maybe even more speed.
While Hinata's Taijutsu style may be superior, she hasn't showed the proficiency in it nor the ability to be a threat for Sakura.


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## Atlantic Storm (Jan 11, 2010)

*Sakura wins*

Sakura has shown much more feats and her style is pretty dangerous too. She can use it to knock her off her balance by destroying the ground or by hitting her. She's also faster(by feats and stats) and Hinata hasn't shown much with her Jyuuken for it to pose much of a threat to Sakura.


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## knives907 (Jan 11, 2010)

Santeira said:


> Well, you've only 'proven' Hinata couldn't do Jyuuken after her Tenketsu was sealed--which everybody knows. If Sakura can seal Tenketsu, sure Hinata can't disturb her chakra flow. If you look at previous pages in the links you've shown, you'll understand what Jyuuken does. Carefully read what Kakashi and Lee said. _I didn't say she could seal Tenketsu._ Read carefully.



Jyuuken in itself will not shut down a chakra system. The scans I showed you should make this very apparent.




> You need to show some proof that people with precise Chakra control can't be affected by Jyuuken--given that Lee said Jyuuken is the strongest form of Taijutsu and _even a slight tap is enough to attack the chakra coil_. Sakura was said to have _precise_ Chakra control--not _amazing_. Jyuuken is a style that attacks the inner Chakra coil directly, and the internal organs connected to the Chakra coil.



Exactly as I've stated. Hinata can attack the chakra coils but not in the same manner than Neji can. Neji can completely block off chakra, in the same way a clot would cut off blood flow. Hinata can prevent her from using chakra, as a lesion in a vein would, but will not completely stop her. 




> I never said she could seal Tenketsu. I said she would disrupt Chakra flow because _Hinata can utilize Jyuuken_.  . Kakashi mentioned it, "her chakra is sealed, she can no longer do her Gentle Fist". It didn't suggest that she couldn't do Gentle Fist.



Her chakra was only sealed because, as i've stated, her tenketsu were sealed. A normal jyuuken does not do this, it only hampers her. 64 points is made specifically to shut down the chakra system which requires locking up points. Normal jyuuken has never shown the ability to completely shut off someone's chakra, or disrupt it to the point where they cannot mold chakra.



> If I were to rephrase/reword what I wrote, it would be "disable her from using Chakra-enhanced punch _properly_". Pay attention to what I meant with the phrase "*in the strict sense*". It's just simple case of wordplay that you misunderstood. Thank you.
> 
> When I said "exact same ability but Neji's was better"--I was referring to Byakugan, as I was responding to that Shinobi66 dude about it being  a _tool_ that Sakura did not possess.
> 
> Also, you need to prove Sakura can dodge and parry too if she's really good at Taijutsu. The ones where she wasn't helped by Chiyo. If she can at least dodge/parry on her own (Taijutsu strike), I'd say sakura wins. Now, do that.



Yes, but understand this, Neji had to seal ALL of the tenketsu in her arm to prevent her from using jyuuken. To replicate such a feat, stop someone from using chakra in their arms, with a lesser form of jyuuken would be a miracle. There's no way Hinata will hit her that many times (who knows how many it would take) before Sakura hits her once. Sakura can dodge

Note: This is after Chiyo brought out the puppets and is no longer controlling her.


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## Santeira (Jan 11, 2010)

knives907 said:


> Jyuuken in itself will not shut down a chakra system. The scans I showed you should make this very apparent.


I didn't say she Juuken can shut down Chakra system. Tenketsu seal shuts down Chakra system.



> Exactly as I've stated. Hinata can attack the chakra coils but not in the same manner than Neji can. Neji can completely block off chakra, in the same way a clot would cut off blood flow. Hinata can prevent her from using chakra, as a lesion in a vein would, but will not completely stop her.


I didn't say Chakra can completely be stopped. But Lee mentioned a simple tap attacks the Chakra coil and damages the Chakra coil, and it is what Juuken does--when it hurts the internal organs--chakra flow will be affected--rendering it imperfect and the internal organs then must be healed. 



> Her chakra was only sealed because, as i've stated, her tenketsu were sealed. A normal jyuuken does not do this, it only hampers her. 64 points is made specifically to shut down the chakra system which requires locking up points. Normal jyuuken has never shown the ability to completely shut off someone's chakra, or disrupt it to the point where they cannot mold chakra.


Yes, but what's new? Jyuuken will affect the internal organs, since the chakra coil that will be damaged is linked directly to them, and Lee mentioned this can happen from a tap. There's no need for you to explain this really. Hinata's chakra was shut down, but her mouth was bloody because of Jyuuken--the result of the internal injury Jyuuken inflicted on her--and this will happen to Sakura too. Jyuuken is an art with focus on screwing up your Chakra flow, to use your own chakra flow against you. Even if Chakra can't be shut down, your Chakra will be disrupted in a manner that it will attack your own internals--and Kakashi said internals can't be trained.



> Yes, but understand this, Neji had to seal ALL of the tenketsu in her arm to prevent her from using jyuuken. To replicate such a feat, stop someone from using chakra in their arms, with a lesser form of jyuuken would be a miracle. There's no way Hinata will hit her that many times (who knows how many it would take) before Sakura hits her once. Sakura can dodge
> 
> Note: This is after Chiyo brought out the puppets and is no longer controlling her.



There's no such thing as lesser form of Jyuuken, Hinata will do Jyuuken, she just won't be able to shut Tenketsu. Also, that is not evading a Taijutsu strike. That is jumping up from a sword being wielded into one direction (downward). I need something that shows her moving her body a little to evade a Taijutsu strike or at least parry a Taijutsu strike, you know, pushing the opponent's wrist when a strike is attempted just as Hinata has done in the Chuunin exams.


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## knives907 (Jan 11, 2010)

Santeira said:


> I didn't say she Juuken can shut down Chakra system. Tenketsu seal shuts down Chakra system.
> 
> I didn't say Chakra can completely be stopped. But Lee mentioned a simple tap attacks the Chakra coil and damages the Chakra coil, and it it what Juuken does--when it hurt the internal organs--chakra flow will be affected--rendering it imperfect and the internal organs must be healed.



So you think her chakra will be incapacitated enough to hamper her from using her "chakra fists" ? 




> Yes, but what's new? Jyuuken will affect the internal organs, since the chakra coil that will be damaged is linked directly to it, and Lee mentioned this can happen from a tap. There's no need for you to explain this really. Hinata's chakra was shut down, but her mouth was bloody because of Jyuuken--the result of the internal injury Jyuuken inflicted on her--and this will happen to Sakura too. Jyuuken is an arts at focusing to screw up your Chakra flow, to use your own chakra flow against you. Even if Chakra can't be shut down, your Chakra will be disrupted in a manner that it will attack your own internals--and Kakashi said internals can't be trained.



So you think Hinata will deal interior damage to the point that Sakura will die before she lands a single hit on Hinata?



> There's no such thing as lesser form of Jyuuken, Hinata will do Jyuuken, she just won't be able to shut Tenketsu. Also, that is not evading a Taijutsu strike. That is jumping up from a sword being wielded into one direction (downward). I need something that shows her moving her body a little to evade a Taijutsu strike or at least parry a Taijutsu strike, you know, pushing the opponent's wrist when a strike is attempted at her just as Hinata has done in the Chuunin exams.



No such scan exists, like pt 2 hinata feats, what's your point. You asked of one dodging, which is exactly what I provided. Jumping to avoid a strike = evading.


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## Shinobi66 (Jan 11, 2010)

Santeira said:


> Also, that is not evading a Taijutsu strike. That is jumping up from a sword being wielded into one direction (downward). I need something that shows her moving her body a little to evade a Taijutsu strike or at least parry a Taijutsu strike, you know, pushing the opponent's wrist when a strike is attempted at her just as Hinata has done in the Chuunin exams.



Lol, Hinata did not parry Neji's attacks. She thought she was fighting evenly with him using normal gentle fist attacks and then it was revealed that he had actually shut off all of her chakra points without her knowing it. So she did not parry his actual attacks, which means we've never seen her successfully parry an attack. I'm telling you, you are seriously overrating her.

And like the other poster said, her attacks cause damage to the chakra system, but they will not completely block the flow. Its not like with a swipe of her palm, she'll block Sakura's chakra like you are suggesting. Its just like a normal attack, except it deals internal damage. And even if she theoretically were to block a limb or two, Sakura has arms AND legs. Its ridiulous to think that Hinata would be able to damage Sakura to the point that she wouldnt be able to use chakra punches or kicks AT ALL without Sakura landing ONE hit, which would be a fight-ender. Its ludicrous really, Hinata is not that good.


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## Santeira (Jan 11, 2010)

knives907 said:


> So you think her chakra will be incapacitated enough to hamper her from using her "chakra fists" ?



Yes. That is, after all, what Juuken does, unless you have different understanding of course. Jyuuken is an art in which the user flows their own chakra into the opponents' inner chakra coil: disrupting it, so chakra can be redirected to injure the opponent's internal organs. All it takes is a simple tap--as Kakashi and Lee had explained. 




> So you think Hinata will deal interior damage to the point that Sakura will die before she lands a single hit on Hinata?



Unless she can use actual Taijutsu that of which she can dodge and parry--it means Hinata has equal chance of winning. As Lee said, all it takes is a single tap, and the chakra coil centers around the organs that produce chakra. Hinata has shown actual dodging and parrying feats in the Chuunin exams. Sakura hasn't shown these. If Sakura is capable of these, then she would have succeeded in dodging that kick from Omoi. All this time, what she does is raise hand, rush in and attempt to hit. Compare that to a dab. I don't take any Databook stat comparison--in real life logic, dabs/jabs are faster than a fist taken up and shot to someone--and I don't see how this is any different from what this manga has shown. Hinata can parry by blocking Sakura's fist and pushing it away. Do you understand why, from the start I said they both have equal chance, and whoever takes the first hit wins? I'm leaning towards Hinata by the logic: a simple tap is all it takes, and a tap is faster than what Sakura has shown. 



> No such scan exists, like pt 2 hinata feats, what's your point. You asked of one dodging, which is exactly what I provided. Jumping to avoid a strike = evading.


I asked for Taijutsu strike evasion. A jump like that won't be able to stop Hinata's dab from contacting Sakura's body. Then we agree that you can't prove Sakura has better Taijutsu than someone who can dodge/parry while being a genin in the chuunin exams. 




Shinobi66 said:


> Lol, Hinata did not parry Neji's attacks. She thought she was fighting evenly with him using normal gentle fist attacks and then it was revealed that he had actually shut off all of her chakra points without her knowing it. So she did not parry his actual attacks, which means we've never seen her successfully parry an attack. I'm telling you, you are seriously overrating her.
> 
> And like the other poster said, her attacks cause damage to the chakra system, but they will not completely block the flow. Its not like with a swipe of her palm, she'll block Sakura's chakra like you are suggesting. Its just like a normal attack, except it deals internal damage. And even if she theoretically were to block a limb or two, Sakura has arms AND legs. Its ridiulous to think that Hinata would be able to damage Sakura to the point that she wouldnt be able to use chakra punches or kicks AT ALL without Sakura landing ONE hit, which would be a fight-ender. Its ludicrous really, Hinata is not that good.


I can provide you scans where Hinata dodged, and parried but I don't like spoonfeeding. Take a good look at the match, and you'll see at least two instances of Hinata dodging and one instance of parrying. All you need to do is show me Sakura can do these too on her own. As I said, Hinata can dodge and parry--and that was when she was a Genin in the Chuunin exam. Sakura hasn't shown capability to dodge and parry Taijutsu strikes,all she has done is punch (user ~Riku has said this many times). It just happens that Jyuuken deals with chakra system, _a system that Sakura relies on heavily_ to do her chakra-enhanced punches. It's whether you underrate Hinata or I overrate her--but I haven't used any arguments outside of what the manga has shown and the explanations Lee and Kakashi made about Jyuuken.

And didn't you overrate Sakura when you say Sakura can punch the ground and make Hinata lose balance? Until it is proven that Sakura's taijutsu is equal to Neji's, or if she has the kind of nuke attack that Deva Pain possesses--or any kind of middle to long range attack-- I'd say this is an even match and both Sakura and Hinata can win or we can go by the fact that the manga hasn't shown enough feats to decide who will win, as two posters here have said. Thank you.


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## Shinobi66 (Jan 11, 2010)

Can you please show me the pages? Pretty please?

We must be reading different manga because that's not what it looks like to me.

It looks more to me like she THOUGHT she had parried his attacks when, in actuality, he had landed every single one of his attacks: the chakra point sealing finger pokes.

If this is what you are referring to, than actually it looks to me like Neji is parrying HER attacks:


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## knives907 (Jan 11, 2010)

Santeira said:


> Yes. That is, after all, what Juuken does, unless you have different understanding of course. Jyuuken is an art in which the user flows their own chakra into the opponents' inner chakra coil: disrupting it, so chakra can be redirected to injure the opponent's internal organs. All it takes is a simple tap--as Kakashi and Lee had explained.



Which cannot completely hamper Sakura's movements. Glad we agree.




> Unless she can use actual Taijutsu that of which she can dodge and parry--it means Hinata has an equal chance of winning as much as Sakura. As Lee said, all it takes is a single tap, and the chakra coil centers around the organs that produce chakra. Hinata has shown actual dodging and parrying feat in the Chuunin exams. Sakura hasn't shown this. If Sakura is capable of this, then she would have succeeded in dodging that kick from Omoi. All this time, what she does is raise hand, rush in and attempt to hit. Compare that to a dab--I don't take any Databook stat comparison. In real life logic, dabs/jabs are faster that a fist taken up and shot to someone--and I don't see how this is any different from what this manga has shown. Hinata can parry by blocking Sakura's fist and pushing it away. Do you understand why, from the start I said they both have equal chances, and whoever takes the first hit wins? I'm leaning against Hinata by the logic: a simple tap is all it takes, and a tap is faster than what Sakura has shown.



Sakura's taijutsu in pt 2 is far more impressive than Hinata's in pt 1, where Neji was playing with her, and making his strikes unseen while Hinata actually thinks she is contending. She is not parrying, she is taking every hit that Neji wants her to. To make the Main house look stupid, he makes several condescending remarks the entire time, while completely obliterating her chakra points, and not breaking a sweat.



> I asked for Taijutsu strike evasion. A jump like that won't be able to stop Hinata's dab from contacting Sakura's body. Then we agree that you can't prove Sakura has better Taijutsu than someone who can dodge/parry while being a genin in the chuunin exams.





			
				you said:
			
		

> If she can at least dodge/parry on her own (Taijutsu strike), I'd say sakura wins.



So wait, jumping over blades does not count as taijutsu? What do you call it then? Ninjutsu? Genjutsu? lol'ing at your logic. Weapons still count as taijutsu, Sakura has shown the ability to move around them. Also, if you want to get technical, she has her hand on the flat part of the blade, which could easily be a wrist. So technically she is parrying by redirecting her body/the blade as well.


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## Shinobi66 (Jan 11, 2010)

Off-topic: Can one of you change your avatars? =p I always look at the avatar first to see who it is and I keep thinking its the same person contradicting himself. You don't have to but it would help lol.

On-topic: Why does he keep saying a "tap is all it will take". Its the other way around. A punch from Sakura kills Hinata. But a "tap" from Hinata does a little damage to the organs and the chakra network, it does not kill. Neji's attacks are a lot more potent but Hinata was able to run and attack right after. So why would one attack end the fight in this scenario? Sakura's withstood injuries before, I'm sure she can keep moving after ONE of Hinata's hits.


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## The Duchess (Jan 11, 2010)

Jeez, these Hinata vs. Sakura threads keep popping up like viruses.



cjones8612 said:


> This has been done so many times.
> 
> *Sakura wins, because she actually has feats*.


This. Most of the arguements for Hinata are pure speculation on what she _could_ do based on her bloodline, but we've never seen her actually do.

Oh, and that she pushed Pain back three inches. lol.


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## Santeira (Jan 11, 2010)

@Shinobi66: 

Dodge:  bottom panel to the left.
Parry:  fourth panel to the right.



knives907 said:


> Which cannot completely hamper Sakura's movements. Glad we agree.


I won't patronize you by saying you didn't read what I said so I'll leave it at that. 



> Sakura's taijutsu in pt 2 is far more impressive than Hinata's in pt 1, where Neji was playing with her, and making his strikes unseen while Hinata actually thinks she is contending. She is not parrying, she is taking every hit that Neji wants her to. To make the Main house look stupid, he makes several condescending remarks the entire time, while completely obliterating her chakra points, and not breaking a sweat.



What Taijutsu? The ones where Chiyo controlled her do not count. All I see is punch and failed attempt at a punch. Also tone down the bashing: Kakashi said even Sasuke might not stand a chance against Neji then and it is not lke genin Sakura would do any better. 




> So wait, jumping over blades does not count as taijutsu? What do you call it then? Ninjutsu? Genjutsu? lol'ing at your logic. Weapons still count as taijutsu, Sakura has shown the ability to move around them. Also, if you want to get technical, she has her hand on the flat part of the blade, which could easily be a wrist. So technically she is parrying by redirecting her body/the blade as well.


Well if we go by that logic a kinder-attender who can jump can use Taijutsu then. She was using the blade to level herself with her hand and it does not count as 'parrying'. A jump upward can't stop a jyuuken dab--so try again.


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## Naruku (Jan 11, 2010)

this thread again? 


hinata wins. i'm not interested in bringing back the old arguments, all you guys need to do is search for the old topics and read. sakura gets her ass kicked the way omoi bitchkicked her.


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## Shinobi66 (Jan 11, 2010)

^Great logic. *sarcasm*



Santeira said:


> @Shinobi66:
> 
> Dodge:  bottom panel to the left.
> Parry:  fifth panel to the right.
> ...



I have to give you give you props. for actually finding scans. I didnt think they actually existed.

But, regardless, that doesnt prove anything. She was already half-dead and Neji was obviously not attacking her full-on. I cant really make out whats happening in the "parrying" pic, so no comment

How does Sakura's dodge not count in your eyes? How is leaping above numerous enemies that are coming from every direction and that are attacking you with weapons that have a longer reach not more impressive than veering slightly to the left? In my opinion, that shows more agility and reflexes than Hinata's move. I cant possibly understand how jumping above Hinata would not work as a way to avoid a blow. As you would say: Try again...


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## knives907 (Jan 11, 2010)

Santeira said:


> I won't patronize you by saying you didn't read what I said so I'll leave it at that.



I did, and we came to the same conclusion. Hinata's strike, at full power, can deal damage to her organs and chakra networks. The only thing that seems we're debating is, Will this shut down Sakura's punches?



> What Taijutsu? The ones where Chiyo controlled her do not count. All I see is punch and failed attempt at a punch. Also tone down the bashing: Kakashi said even Sasuke might not stand a chance against Neji then and it is not lke genin Sakura would do any better.



Breaking 3rd Kazekage (without Chiyo's help), knocking out giant summons, as well as showing some fighting prowess against Kakashi. I'm not bashing, merely pointing out facts. Neji was playing with her, as was stated. He was also hitting her without her knowledge, completely blocking off all of her points before she even knew what was going on and that she wasn't using jyuuken.



> Well if we go by that logic a kinder-attender who can jump can use Taijutsu then. She was using the blade to level herself with her hand and it does not count as 'parrying'. A jump upward can't stop a jyuuken dab--so try again.



If the "kinder-attender" can jump over blades intentionally to avoid damage, sure I'd say that's a part of taijutsu. Or are you insinuating that taijutsu means only attacking, and nothing in regards to jumping and dodging? 

And the point I was making was that Sakura grabbed the safe part of the blade, which could easily be a parrying feat, as it requires moving out of the way and redirecting force to put yourself in an advantageous position.


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## Naruku (Jan 11, 2010)

looks like somebody forgot to mention hiruko's direct tail hit was stopped by chiyo's in front of Sakura's face. without chiyo sakura woulda been dead meat. and when does that count as parrying? taijutsu and swordplay are different. sakura was just jumping, not evading a taijutsu blow. sakura has punching feat, but no dodging and parrying feat. it's irelevant, and again she'll get her ass kicked.


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## knives907 (Jan 11, 2010)

Naruku said:


> looks like somebody forgot to mention hiruko's direct tail hit was stopped by chiyo's in front of Sakura's face.



, this doesn't discredit her later feats when she's moving alone. I'm not saying Chiyo didn't help, merely stating that Sakura has her own feats in the battle too.



> and when does that count as parrying? taijutsu and swordplay are different. sakura was just jumping, not evading a taijutsu blow. sure, sakura has punching feat, but do dodging and parying feat. again, she'll get her ass kicked.



So jumping to avoid physical harm =/= dodging/evading.

e⋅vade  [i-veyd]
?verb (used with object)
1.	to escape from by trickery or cleverness: to evade one's pursuers.
2.	*to get around* by trickery: to evade rules.
3.	to avoid doing or fulfilling: to evade an obligation.
4.	to avoid answering directly: to evade a question.
5.	to elude; *escape*: The solution evaded him.

dodge  [doj] 
?verb (used with object)
1.	to elude or evade by *a sudden shift of position or by strategy*: to *dodge a blow*; to dodge a question.
2.	Also, hold back. Photography. (in printing) to shade (an area of a print) from exposure for a period, while exposing the remainder of the print in order to lighten or eliminate the area (sometimes fol. by out). Compare burn 1 (def. 43).
?verb (used without object)
3.	to move aside or *change position suddenly, as to avoid a blow* or get behind something.
4.	*to use evasive methods*; prevaricate: When asked a direct question, he dodges.

She was 100% evading an attack from those puppets. Unless you're insinuating she was just jumping to jump.


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## Naruku (Jan 11, 2010)

yeah but feats that will be useless against a jyuuken user. 

and literal meaning doesn't count. your scan doesn't count in the taijutsu sense. stop spinning, she just jumped up, and my cat can do that. so my cat knows taijutsu? 

jumping up like that is not equal to evading a jyuken blow. jyuken is faster, slicker than swords you can se from a mile away.


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## knives907 (Jan 11, 2010)

Naruku said:


> yeah but feats that will be useless against a jyuuken user.
> 
> and literal meaning doesn't count. your scan doesn't count in the taijutsu sense. stop spinning, she just jumped up, and my cat can do that. so my cat knows taijutsu?
> 
> jumping up like that is not equal to evading a jyuken blow. jyuken is faster, slicker than swords you can se from a mile away.



You missed the point. 

He asked for a scan of her dodging a taijutsu attack. I posted a scan of her dodging 5+ swords. If your cat can dodge 5+ swords that puppets from a master imaginary puppeteer in controlling precisely coming at it at the same time, I'd be quite impressed. 

Regardless of "you can see swords better than jyuuken" or whatever the last point you were trying to make, he asked for a scan of her dodging, I provided one.


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## XRinneganX (Jan 11, 2010)

Hinata wins. All of Sakura's attacks can be blocked with _8 Trigrams Heavenly Spin_ (or 'Rotation'). And when Hinata lands a fatal blow to Sakura, she won't be able to heal or punch/kick super hard anymore because Hinata would've cut off her Chakra. 
Oh, and don't forget _8 Trigrams 32 Palms_ (ONLY 32 PALMS?! WTF?!).

Hinata!


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## Naruku (Jan 11, 2010)

knives907 said:


> You missed the point.
> 
> He asked for a scan of her dodging a taijutsu attack. I posted a scan of her dodging 5+ swords. If your cat can dodge 5+ swords that puppets from a master imaginary puppeteer in controlling precisely coming at it at the same time, I'd be quite impressed.
> 
> Regardless of "you can see swords better than jyuuken" or whatever the last point you were trying to make, he asked for a scan of her dodging, I provided one.


she asked for a *taijutsu strike* evasion and last time i checked, taijutsu means* hand to hand combat*, then you showed a scan of sakura jumping. spectacular.


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## knives907 (Jan 11, 2010)

XRinneganX said:


> Hinata wins. All of Sakura's attacks can be blocked with _8 Trigrams Heavenly Spin_ (or 'Rotation'). And when Hinata lands a fatal blow to Sakura, she won't be able to heal or punch/kick super hard anymore because Hinata would've cut off her Chakra.
> Oh, and don't forget _8 Trigrams 32 Palms_ (ONLY 32 PALMS?! WTF?!).
> 
> Hinata!



Oh anime 



> she asked for a taijutsu strike evasion and last time i checked, taijutsu means hand to hand combat, then you showed a scan of sakura jumping. spectacular.



Flat out, you're wrong
So when Gai uses his nunchucks, he is no longer using taijutsu? A weapon is merely a tool, they're still using taijutsu.

If you try to punch me and i jump over it, am i not evading it? I posted a definition, go re-read it carefully.


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## Naruku (Jan 11, 2010)

knives907 said:


> Flat out, you're wrong
> So when Gai uses his nunchucks, he is no longer using taijutsu? A weapon is merely a tool, they're still using taijutsu.
> 
> If you try to punch me and i jump over it, am i not evading it? I posted a definition, go re-read it carefully.


your definitions are just literal. taijutsu evasion needs more than  just a jump up. hinata can still poke her if she jumps up, or do you lack the ability to use logic? and in every hinata and sakura thread, you keep bringing up the same scan to prove she can dodge jyuken. or maybe i should  post the link to the thread where riku kicked your ass each time you brought that scan up.


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## knives907 (Jan 11, 2010)

Naruku said:


> your definitions are just literal. taijutsu evasion needs more than  just a jump up. hinata can still poke her if she jumps up, or do you lack the ability to use logic? and in every hinata and sakura thread, you keep bringing up the same scan to prove she can dodge jyuken. or maybe i should  post the link to the thread where 'riku kicked you ass each time you brought that scan up.



-snip- and jumping into arguments that are not yours. He asked for a scan, I provided it, then you jumped in spouting off about nonsense when you weren't even in the original debate about dodging. And taijutsu strike, using a weapon is still taijutsu, so I indeed did provide a scan of a taijutsu strike evasion. Sorry if you're silly enough to jump into a debate where someone requests evidence and you take it to mean something it doesn't. I never said it was similar to jyuuken at all, just that Sakura *does* have a dodging feat.

I'd choose limited feats > *no feats* any day. Do you lack the common sense to know that Hinata has done nothing in pt 2 other than scouting? Do you have the common sense to realize Neji made it painfully apparent how worthless Hinata's watered-down jyuuken is? Hinata has no chance of shutting off Sakura's chakra system because she does not possess the ability to locate + close tenketsu. Neji had to plug up at least 10 of Hinata's arm "holes" to shut off her chakra. Hinata not only cannot close them off, but she has a less accurate form of attacking the chakra system.

Like I said, no way Sakura is getting her chakra cut off. She will hit Hinata way before that happens. .5 taijutsu difference will not make Hinata untouchable.


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## Naruku (Jan 12, 2010)

you provided a scan where sakura jumps up and it does   not matter in the context she asked. -snip- she already brushed off your scan.

read carefully what people in this thread said about jyuken. it attacks the organs that provide chakra, and even a tap is enough. hinata can use jyuken, so it will disturb the chakra pathway and chakra control. if her organs are damaged, they can't produce chakra at maximum, so sakura's punches would be affected. and *riku* and *kno7* have already kicked your ass with that scan in previous threads, so it doesn't matter.


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## knives907 (Jan 12, 2010)

Naruku said:


> you provided a scan where sakura jumps up and it does   not matter in the context she asked. don't tell me your not a typical fanboy too with the amount of fanwanking you've put into this thread. she already brushed off your scan.



I'm not a fanboy and where was I wanking? I'll wait. You're the one that started being hostile, and furthermore you don't have scans so...



> read carefully what people in this thread said about jyuken. it attacks the organs that provide chakra, and even a tap is enough. hinata can use jyuken, so it will disturb the chakra pathway and chakra control. if your organs are damaged, they can't produce chakra at maximum, so sakura's punches would be affected.



Believe me, I know what jyuuken does. But do you think, Hinata can sufficiently cut off enough of her chakra control before Sakura lands one punch on her? Kakashi states that a single attack would be deadly. Even if her chakra is disturbed, she can deal mortal, or crippling damage.



> and *riku* and *kno7* have already kicked your ass with that scan in previous threads, so it doesn't matter.



Because I don't argue with a brick wall continuously doesn't mean I got my ass kicked, it means I said my piece, and was done arguing... Fitting that a Hinata fan would say someone arguing for Hinata kicked my ass :]


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## Santeira (Jan 12, 2010)

You two can stop being hostile to each other now. XD

knives907: I'm not accepting the scan you used as proof of Taijutsu evasion, and I think I've already stated why. I still think Hinata and Sakura both have equal chances in winning, whoever gets to hit first shall win and nothing can change that for the time being. I need to do my work now, thanks for your input.


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## Shinobi66 (Jan 12, 2010)

Naruku said:


> you provided a scan where sakura jumps up and it does   not matter in the context she asked. don't tell me your not a typical fanboy too with the amount of fanwanking you've put into this thread. she already brushed off your scan.
> 
> read carefully what people in this thread said about jyuken. it attacks the organs that provide chakra, and even a tap is enough. hinata can use jyuken, so it will disturb the chakra pathway and chakra control. if her organs are damaged, they can't produce chakra at maximum, so sakura's punches would be affected. and *riku* and *kno7* have already kicked your ass with that scan in previous threads, so it doesn't matter.



Wow, Im sorry to have to resort to insults but -snip-

She jumped yes. But it was to avoid the attack which = dodging. Are you that dense?

Thats like if I said what Hinata did in that other panel was moving her body a little to the left, not dodging.....

If Hinata attacked her and she jumped OVER her, than that would be evading the attack, just like if she dodged in another direction (left, right), so Hinata would not land the attack.

And at Santeira: You're being unreasonable, who cares if it wasn't exactly Taijustu, it was close quarters combat and she managed to evade atleast five enemies' attacks by JUMPING. That shows more reflexes and agility than moving left or right. 

And maybe those attacks were easier to see since it was a larger target heading towards her, but since they are longer, they have longer reach; which means the attack gets to you much faster than an arm; which, in turn means that Sakura was able to dodge something that was coming much faster AND it came from different directions including her back. Hinata dodged a single attack from the front that all that was required was a slight movement.

So all-in-all:
Sakura dodged *five+* enemies attacking. Hinata dodged *one*. 
Sakura *JUMPED out of reach*. Hinata *veered slightly*.
Sakura dodged attacks that came from *every direction, including her back*. Hinata dodged an attack that was coming from *in front of her* 

Sakura's dodging feat is WAY more impressive, That is simply not debatable. And if you think it is, than there is no hope for you.


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## FrogSage (Jan 12, 2010)

Koroshi said:


> INB4 Pairing fans.
> 
> Anyway, this has been done lots of times, with the shown feats dictating that Sakura wins this one. Hinata has not shown anything to prove that she has enough skill, speed and power to be able to fight against someone more experienced unfortunately.


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## Santeira (Jan 12, 2010)

@Shinobi66:



> Sakura dodged five+ enemies attacking. Hinata dodged one.


She didn't _jump over_ five, she jumped up, the swords were all pointing to one direction _below_ her.



> Sakura JUMPED out of reach. Hinata veered slightly.


She's not out of reach. What Naruku said makes sense actually. A jyuuken dab can still contact Sakura's body, because it's a simple act of jumping. 



> Sakura dodged attacks that came from every direction, including her back.


The swords were all pointing to_ one direction_, Unless she dodged swords coming from different directions to different directions, of course. Watching the anime might help you understand. 



> Hinata dodged an attack that was coming from in front of her


Yes, and this is where most Jyuuken strikes will come. There's a difference in veering your body to evade a strike from jumping up a group of swords focused to one direction below you.

Edit: To explain further, taijutsu attack comes in sequence. Sakura has to come close to Hinata to attack. Hinata can dodge and parry Sakura's arms--as she had proven with Neji in the Chuunin exams. These dabs come in sequence--one dab after another. If Sakura's gonna attempt a punch and if Hinata dodges, and jump away, the match would just never be ended. Sakura would have to stay in place to keep attacking. If one tap gets to disturb Sakura's chakra, her internals would start to get injured.


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## Shinobi66 (Jan 12, 2010)

Santeira said:


> @Shinobi66:She didn't _jump over_ five, she jumped up, the swords were all pointing to one direction _below_ her.



So you're saying that they tried to attack below her? No, they attacked where she was and she jumped above that area. 




Santeira said:


> She's not out of reach. What Naruku said makes sense actually. A jyuuken dab can still contact Sakura's body, because it's a simple act of jumping.



Its the same as if she dodged to the side, an attack could still reach her but the point of a dodge is to avoid the first strike, then dodge the others or counter attack. You dont dodge and than stand there for a second attack.




Santeira said:


> The swords were all pointing to_ one direction_, Unless she dodges swords coming from different directions to different directions, of course. Watching the anime might help you understand.



No shit that they attacked towards one direction. I said they CAME from different direction. Read again. She couldn't just move to the side as Hinata did because one of the other attacks would have reached her so she had no where else to go but up ^. She had less options and more to look out for which is harder than what Hinata had to do.



Santeira said:


> Yes, and this is where most Jyuuken strikes will come. There's a difference in veering your body to evade a strike from jumping up a group of swords focused to one direction below you.



They were not attacking below her! Why would they do that? She jumped what would have probably connected with her torso. How is that any different from a a swing of an arm?


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## Suu (Jan 12, 2010)

If you guys don't start playing nicely, bad things will happen. 



Shinobi66 said:


> Wow, Im sorry to have to resort to insults


You _will_ be sorry if you keep this up.


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## Santeira (Jan 12, 2010)

Shinobi66 said:


> So you're saying that they tried to attack below her? No, they attacked where she was and she jumped above that area.



Yes but they were all from different directions pointing to one direction below, for sure it just takes one single jump up.



> Its the same as if she dodged to the side, an attack could still reach her but the point of a dodge is to avoid the first strike, then dodge the others or counter attack. You dont dodge and than stand there for a second attack.


It is not the same. Do you know _martial arts sequence_? You have to _keep your feet in place and avoid attack_ so you can _counterattack_ in close-range hand-to-hand combat.



> No shit that they attacked towards one direction. I said they CAME from different direction. Read again. She couldn't just move to the side as Hinata did because one of the other attacks would have reached her so she had no where else to go but up ^. She had less options and more to look out for which is harder than what Hinata had to do.



This is _exactly why it is invalid_ to prove she can dodge a jyuken attack.



> They were not attacking below her! Why would they do that? She jumped what would have probably connected with her torso. How is that any different from a a swing of an arm?



What I meant was, they attacked the _lower part_ of the body. Pardon me but my English is pretty bad, so I've reworded it to make you understand further. In taijutsu sequence--in the sense that Hinata and Sakura would fight--they have to keep their feet on the ground and dodge, parry, stuff like that to determine the victor.

Sakura's fighting style is linear: with fist taken up and body rushing to her opponent. Jyuuken strike will be directed to her arms, and her chest and the upper part of the body. If she jumps away when Hinata attempts a Jyuuken tap at her, how will she land her chakra-enhanced fist on Hinata? There is more possibility for Hinata to be able to tap Sakura's chakra coil first. If Sakura can keep her feet on the ground and dodge or parry there's a bigger chance for her fist to land. But Hinata was able to dodge and parry some of Neji's fast strikes. This is where the problem in Sakura's taijutsu lies. I might have believed if she had actually dodged Omoi's kick. But she went flying: she didn't dodge, block or parry while keeping her feet on the ground. And furthermore; Jyuuken happens to be a bad match for her chakra augmentation (that is Sakura's strong point) because it can easily be cancelled with a Jyuuken tap, and the chakra can be redirected to injure her chakra-producing organs instead. She can punch, I'm not denying this. But can she land a hit on someone--who as a genin--was able to dodge and parry? Hinata just needs to tap on her arms or wrist. This is why I'm leaning towards Hinata.

I will not make further explanation than this. Be free to make up your mind on who will win after this explanation. Thank you.


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## cloud-chan (Jan 12, 2010)

It's hard to say, since Hinata has never got much screen time we don't know how strong she is currently. She might have grow strong, since it has been show Neji to train her at some extent.

Both of them could take the fight, I suppose it would depend on who is the first hitting.


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## Shinobi66 (Jan 13, 2010)

Even if Hinata got the first hit(s) in, she would not be guaranteed a win. Stop saying that the "first one to land a hit wins" because that is not true. If Sakura lands a hit Hinata dies, but not the other way around.

That's why I think it's ridiculous that people think Hinata would be able to land every hit without Sakura landing one. She is not at a level so much higher than Sakura that she would be able to do that.

And Im tired with all this back and forth about the parrying/dodging feats thing. Hinata showed one dodge on-panel when she was half-dead and Neji wasn't taking her seriously, and now suddenly she's an expert at dodging. It doesnt prove anything. Her dodging one attack does not equate her being able to dodge/parry anything Sakura dishes out so its ridiculous trying to defend your argument with that.


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## Santeira (Jan 13, 2010)

This attempt to make Hinata look worse has been done by you since the beginning of this thread. Sorry, but enough with the bashing. Sakura hasn't shown Taijutsu--she just punched. You said Hinata hasn't parried and dodged, and I've shown you instances that she had. Sakura _has not shown any ability to dodge/parry Taijutsu strike_ for the time being. 

_Do you think against who Hinata has fought (pre-skip Neji and Deva Pain) Sakura would last ten seconds with what she has actually shown? _ I'm sure she would die in less than ten seconds with what Sakura's shown against Neji. (Oh no I've resorted to bashing)

Perhaps Kishi would show something when Sakura faces Sasuke. All the feats she has shown (antidote and reading sasori's finger pattern) can't be used to argue about her Taijutsu capability. 

Hinata has faster type of attack, well rounded Taijutsu and a method of attack that suits well to cancel Sakura's attack. _This is what the manga has shown._ Accept it for now--this is what the battledome is all about as I've read--using evidences to determine who will win.

Then there's Juuho Soushiken too--I'm sure it's her most lethal type of attack.

And next time, _argue without prejudice and hatred_--perhaps then you will garner some respect, neh? From me at least.


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## knives907 (Jan 13, 2010)

By your logic, Gai would fall to pre-skip Neji since Gai doesn't have nearly as many dodging/parrying feats as Neji, but merely smashes a 30% Kisame clone with Gates. It's not 100% about parrying/blocking AT ALL. 

If this were the case, Neji has the blocking/parrying feats to kill anyone in taijutsu...


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## Shinobi66 (Jan 13, 2010)

Santeira said:


> This attempt to make Hinata look worse has been done by you since the beginning of this thread. Sorry, but enough with the bashing. Sakura hasn't shown Taijutsu--she just punched. You said Hinata hasn't parried and dodged, and I've shown you instances that she had. Sakura _has not shown any ability to dodge/parry Taijutsu strike_ for the time being.
> 
> _Do you think against who Hinata has fought (pre-skip Neji and Deva Pain) Sakura would last ten seconds with what she has actually shown? _ I'm sure she would die in less than ten seconds with what Sakura's shown against Neji. (Oh no I've resorted to bashing)
> 
> ...



And the same can be said of you. You seem to be a Hinata fan, so you're biased as well and thats definitely affecting your view of what she's done, from what I can tell (you seriously blow little tiny feats of her's way out of proportion).

I dont really like Hinata (hate is a strong word) but Ive never brought my dislike of her into the argument of who would win, so IDK where you're getting that Ive argued with "hatred and prejudice". I might have expressed that I don't like her but it was never related to whethe rshe wins or not.

Im not sure if I have in the past (probably ) but I didnt bash Hinata at all in that post. You're simply really overrating everything she's done and Im trying to get you to see the reality that those things she did are not that great...

And as Ive mentioned SO many times: when has she ever been established as someone with "well rounded Taijutsu"? She got beat VERY badly, how did that show she had good Taijutsu? She might have parried one attack, from what was shown, so now she is good at Taijutsu? Crazy logic...

One or two panels of her dodging does not mean that Sakura has no chance of touching her, you are jumping to conclusions. And like knives posted, this does not guarantee a victory.

About Juuho Soushiken: that is complete and utter speculation. 

Oh, one more thing. Punching is taijutsu! And Sakura's shown the skill to atleast land the hits, as opposed to Hinata.


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## Naruku (Jan 13, 2010)

gai has the reputation. he's kakashi's rival, sakura's just ino's rival, who sucks at taijutsu as much as her. and did genin hinata kick sakura's flat ass again? 

why am i not surprised.


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## vjpowell (Jan 13, 2010)

All Hinata needs to do is Jyuken and stop Sakura. Also she can use her Byakugan to predict her movements. Clearly Hinata > Sakura no matter what.


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## knives907 (Jan 13, 2010)

vjpowell said:


> All Hinata needs to do is Jyuken and stop Sakura. Also she can use her Byakugan to predict her movements. Clearly Hinata > Sakura no matter what.



Byakugan does not predict movements.


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## Shinobi66 (Jan 13, 2010)

vjpowell said:


> All Hinata needs to do is Jyuken and stop Sakura. Also she can use her Byakugan to predict her movements. Clearly Hinata > Sakura no matter what.



And jyuken will not "stop" Sakura.


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## santanico (Jan 13, 2010)

Sakura has more panel time, so I'm not at all surprised people are blabbing on about how incredible sakura is and her "feats", which is a joke.


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## Kind of a big deal (Jan 13, 2010)

Yes her feats are pretty bad, but at least they exist. And she is still considered a remarkable konoichi as Tsunade's apprentice, but also by people like Asuma who sees her as a sort of target for Ino to measure up to.
That's more than can be said of Hinata. Not only does she have close to 0 feats that distinguish her from filler ninja, but also she is not considered talented or remarkable except that she's a princess whom Hiashi thinks still needs a bodyguard.


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## santanico (Jan 13, 2010)

^ And you base this on what panel time of Hinata's?

Like I said, Sakura has more panel time, how are you going to compare her feats to sakura's?
Any 'sakura vs. hinata' thread is invalid.


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## Kind of a big deal (Jan 13, 2010)

I base the fact that she is assigned a bodyguard on the fact that she is assigned a bodyguard.





> When Hanabi and Hiashi Hyūga were away on a mission, he was assigned as Hinata's bodyguard during Pain's attack on the village.



Kunoichi that punches a giant centipede > kunoichi that needs a bodyguard. Pretty straightforward if you ask me.


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## knives907 (Jan 13, 2010)

Starr said:


> ^ And you base this on what panel time of Hinata's?
> 
> Like I said, Sakura has more panel time, how are you going to compare her feats to sakura's?
> Any 'sakura vs. hinata' thread is invalid.



By this logic, most battledome threads are invalid.
And we have limited knowledge, so we go based on what we've seen. No reason to hate on us or this thread because Kishimoto writes Hinata as filler and Sakura just slightly above filler. 

I can say I don't like either character, but at least Sakura can supplement main characters with combat feats that actually progress a fight.


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## Santeira (Jan 13, 2010)

Kind of a big deal said:


> I base the fact that she is assigned a bodyguard on the fact that she is assigned a bodyguard.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Danzou took two bodyguards to the Summit. This means Sakura > Danzou, Tsuchikage, Mizukage, Raikage and Kazekage. 

Hinata's from a noble clan--it is fitting for her to have a bodyguard. 

And the centipede Sakura punched was no threat, it was just there. It's the same as punching a big boulder--it doesn't have limbs to parry no taijutsu capability to move.


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## Kind of a big deal (Jan 13, 2010)

Danzou is Hokage, it's fitting for him to have a bodyguard. Hinata is from a noble clan, it's fitting for her to able to defend herself. Oh wait.

You can discredit Sakura's feats all you want, it won't magically make Hinata gain some.


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## Santeira (Jan 13, 2010)

So it isn't fitting for a Hokage to defend himself? Seriously. 

Nobody discredited Sakura's feats. Only what she has shown can't be used to prove she has actual Taijutsu feat. Please, bring evidence.


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## OrochiSui (Jan 13, 2010)

cant hinata know with her byakugan where sakura focus her chakra and avoid/predict her hits?

i guess the first 1 to hit wins


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## Axekick (Jan 13, 2010)

Kind of a big deal said:


> Danzou is Hokage, it's fitting for him to have a bodyguard. Hinata is from a noble clan, it's fitting for her to able to defend herself. Oh wait.



Are you serious?  That's a pretty terrible argument. 

The parallels make perfect sense.  It's not a sign of weakness for her (the heir to Konoha's most prestigious noble clan) to have a bodyguard any more than it is for the Kage (the strongest nin in the entire village) to have one.


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## Kind of a big deal (Jan 13, 2010)

dodge:   
punch:   



Lulz: Reactions faster than Naruto:


None of these were with Chiyo's help.

Now you provide anything whatsoever where Hinata doesn't get owned in a fight.


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## Santeira (Jan 13, 2010)

Obviously you weren't reading the thread, and I'm wondering myself why I'm responding to you. So I've decided to not waste time responding further. Good luck in life.


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## knives907 (Jan 13, 2010)

Kind of a big deal said:


> dodge:
> punch:
> 
> 
> ...



Apparently none of those prove Sakura can fight. Even hitting Naruto (who has better reactions than Hinata, let's not lie to ourselves here). There really is no point arguing at this point, because Hinata fans can not get over the fact that she has nothing to show in pt 2, and hardly a showing in pt 1.

Posting an additional scan from pt 1
2 things, Lee (a taijutsu expert) comments on her movements, as well as blocking a taijutsu attack


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## Mist Puppet (Jan 13, 2010)

I remember I used to argue for Hinata back when an old Hinata vs. Sakura thread was made.

They both suck as fighters. But by feats, Sakura should be able to take it, even though Hinata has the superior Taijutsu style.


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## knives907 (Jan 13, 2010)

Mist Puppet said:


> I remember I used to argue for Hinata back when an old Hinata vs. Sakura thread was made.
> 
> *They both suck as fighters. But by feats, Sakura should be able to take it, *even though Hinata has the superior Taijutsu style.



Agreed with the bold.


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## Naruku (Jan 13, 2010)

since omoi kicked her to oblivion, it means omoi has better reaction speed than naruto using a panel that was meant as a joke.



you guys aren't done grasping at last straws?


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## Shinobi66 (Jan 13, 2010)

Santeira said:


> And the centipede Sakura punched was no threat, it was just there. It's the same as punching a big boulder--it doesn't have limbs to parry no taijutsu capability to move.



So in order for something to be considered taijutsu, the person has to punch something that is also using taijutsu? Ive never heard that rule before.

And how can you say it was no threat? People were running away! Hell, ninja  with chuunin jackets were running away. Not a threat at all *sarcasm*

You're just shrugging off everything Sakura does and magnifying insignificant things Hinata does...and you say im prejudiced....


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## Santeira (Jan 14, 2010)

Well, forgive me if I hurt you, I'd admit I get blunt at times, but I made that conclusion because I reread the thread last night and from the beginning, you said stuff like "she didn't parry or dodge, she took all of Neji's hits", which isn't true. You suggested that she was terrible in the fight with Neji, but the situation was, Hinata lost, but she actually showed she could dodge and parry, and Neji was a Taijutsu beast--his strikes were fast and deadly. 

When I showed you scans of her dodging/parrying you said Neji wasn't being serious when he fought her. Seriously.

If Sakura were in Hinata's place how would she have fared? Hinata lost against a Taijutsu beast, but this is Hinata vs. Sakura, it does not mean she would lose to Sakura. Hinata has shown reflexes, parrying and dodging feats. And these can be used as arguments in a mock Hinata vs. Sakura fight, regardless if she had lost against Neji. I haven't magnified her skills--what I said she has, she has. She has Jyuuken, Byakugan, dodging, hitting and parrying feat. 

Sakura punched a centipede summon. Sure, that's a great feat--it proves that her punch is a force to reckon with. Hinata would probably die from a hit, but that centipede was no threat--it was not fighting. It was not doing anything, it was not attacking--_people were just scared stiff of its size_. You can't make conclusion that a Ninja who has shown dodging and parrying feats would be hit with a first attempt from someone who hasn't shown Taijutsu capability--just because Hinata lost against someone who was significantly better in Taijutsu than both Sakura and Hinata.

A punch is a punch, a kick is a kick. Meanwhile, Taijutsu is a system that synchronizes all these: punch or kick, dodge, parry, block, and Hinata has shown this set. In Chiyo vs. Sasori, Sakura was controlled by Chiyo--even if she managed to punch, her movements were being controlled by a Kunoichi, and what she did when she wasn't being controlled by her still does not show she is good at Taijutsu skill set--and Sakura was helped by someone who was probably Kage level. Conclusion we made was:her punch is really powerful.

Hinata and Sakura are both _hand-to-hand, close combat_ fighters, but when Sakura had a chance to show some Taijutsu (with no help this time), she did what she does, took her fist up, rushed in and then she got kicked. It didn't convince me that she has good Taijutsu--or if she even has Taijutsu.

If Hinata is going to win this, it would be with extreme difficulty. Never said it would be easy. So yes, still, who hits the first wins.


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