# How much more impressive is Kaido than Big mom?



## arv993 (Mar 31, 2022)

Neither used an awakening assuming they have it. Kaido has better endurance by far. His AP is also better. Did Oda make BM look too weak? What diff can she give kaido?


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## Godammit (Mar 31, 2022)

Much more impressive, BM is all fireworks while Kaido has the real guns

Reactions: Like 2 | Neutral 1


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## IHateAnnoyingJerks (Mar 31, 2022)

Big Mom got ring out by two YC1 in 3 chapters, Kaido had been fighting for 50+ chapters.  I want to meme BM but admirals got even worse treatments, Sabo and a bunch of low commander levels gave a tough fight to Fujitora and Greenbull.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Fel1x (Mar 31, 2022)

I have a friendly relationship with @RossellaFiamingo, @Charlotte D. Kurisu  and @MO

so I will ignore this question

sorry, @arv993

Reactions: Funny 25 | Tier Specialist 1


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## MO (Mar 31, 2022)

not that much. Kaido is lucky that this will be his last appearance so Oda is going all out for him. Big Mom is coming back so she will have a lot more to show in the future

Reactions: Like 7 | Agree 2 | Winner 2 | Optimistic 3 | Tier Specialist 1 | Dislike 1


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## Xebec (Mar 31, 2022)

elbaf big mom is going to be more impressive and fight a stronger luffy

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 3 | Winner 2 | Optimistic 2


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## Fel1x (Mar 31, 2022)

Die-Hardman said:


> elbaf big mom is going to be more impressive and fight a stronger luffy


have to disagree here. but yeah, she will still be a serious threat


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## IHateAnnoyingJerks (Mar 31, 2022)

Fel1x said:


> have to disagree here. but yeah, she will still be a serious threat


BM might be back, but I don't see BM taking hits for 60 chapters, sorry, she won't surpass Kaido in feats.


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## Fel1x (Mar 31, 2022)

IHateAnnoyingJerks said:


> BM might be back, but I don't see BM taking hits for 60 chapters, sorry, she won't surpass Kaido in feats.


being serious threat doesn't mean being more impressive than Kaido. Kaido is strongest ever. and will remain strongest until 3fruits Teach or whatever Oda is planning for him


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## Shanks (Mar 31, 2022)

Maybe Law's attacks are just that deadly?


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## IHateAnnoyingJerks (Mar 31, 2022)

Fel1x said:


> being serious threat doesn't mean being more impressive than Kaido. Kaido is strongest ever. and will remain strongest until 3fruits Teach or whatever Oda is planning for him


This is peak Luffy, just because someone fight him later doesn't equate them being stronger than Kaido, I am not even sure if EOS BB can surpass Kaido in feats.  Whitebeard fought for 30 chapters then died, Kaido fought for 60 chapters and stay strong.

For reference, Rob Lucci was beaten after Enel, but feat wise everyone agree that Enel would fry Rob Lucci.  Same logic can apply here.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fel1x (Mar 31, 2022)

IHateAnnoyingJerks said:


> This is peak Luffy, just because someone fight him later doesn't equate them being stronger than Kaido, I am not even sure if EOS BB can surpass Kaido in feats.  Whitebeard fought for 30 chapters then died, Kaido fought for 60 chapters and stay strong.


why you are talking as if im dehyping Kaido right now? I'm probably one of his biggest wanker. one of the few who think that Kaido is strongest ever
I just think BM will look as a threat to peak Luffy. even if she is weaker than Kaido. threat is someone who can give at least high diff fight

Reactions: Winner 1


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## IHateAnnoyingJerks (Mar 31, 2022)

Fel1x said:


> why you are talking as if im dehyping Kaido right now? I'm probably one of his biggest wanker. one of the few who think that Kaido is strongest ever
> I just think BM will look as a threat to peak Luffy. even if she is weaker than Kaido. threat is someone who can give at least high diff fight


Hard to redeem to BM after making her lose to two YC1 level fighters, but hey, Sabo and a bunch of vets put Fujitora in bandages.


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## Fel1x (Mar 31, 2022)

IHateAnnoyingJerks said:


> Hard to redeem to BM after making her lose to two YC1 level fighters, but hey, Sabo and a bunch of vets put Fujitora in bandages.


well, I consider both Law and  Kidd as FM+ level characters. probably as strong as weakest admirals
also you and me don't know about who actually fought Revs. 100% not Fujitora alone. Garp might have joined this party or GB. VAs exist too. yes, its hard to remember this losers


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## IHateAnnoyingJerks (Mar 31, 2022)

Fel1x said:


> *well, I consider both Law and  Kidd as FM+ level characters. probably as strong as weakest admirals*
> also you and me don't know about who actually fought Revs. 100% not Fujitora alone. Garp might have joined this party or GB. VAs exist too. yes, its hard to remember this losers


I hate using the term FM+, if everyone is FM+, no one is, they are just on strong-end of YC1.


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## Fel1x (Mar 31, 2022)

IHateAnnoyingJerks said:


> I hate using the term FM+, if everyone is FM+, no one is, they are just on strong-end of YC1.


so how can I call someone who isn't just mere YC1? Beckman is clearly admiral level for me and strongest FM, as for Law and Kidd : they are weaker, but not that much


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## IHateAnnoyingJerks (Mar 31, 2022)

Fel1x said:


> so how can I call someone who isn't just mere YC1? Beckman is clearly admiral level for me and strongest FM, as for Law and Kidd : they are weaker, but not that much


We usually only refer to King and Katakuri as YC1, and people like Marco, Zoro, Law, Kid as YC1+.  When there are that many people in YC1+ category, you might as well refer to King and Katakuri as YC1- and the others as regular YC1.  

YC1:  King, Katakuri, Marco, Beckman, Shiryu, Kid, Law, Zoro, Yamato.


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## ShadoLord (Mar 31, 2022)

to be fair, Big Mom tanked what is essentially an island buster with Law's awakening.

Reactions: Like 1


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## T-Bag (Mar 31, 2022)

More impressive.

But Big mom would put him _near _death before she croaks. After all she is one of the original Rox like him.
It'd be similar to Kuzan vs Sakazuki

Reactions: Agree 1


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## nyamad (Mar 31, 2022)

High diff for Kaido. He doesn’t think she is even capable of beating him so won’t be extreme at all. Same for shanks, admirals etc
Not counting Imu coz he is a secret to the world.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## convict (Mar 31, 2022)

High difficulty for Kaido not extreme. They aren't too far apart but not neck and neck either.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


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## RossellaFiamingo (Mar 31, 2022)

Kaido has the advantage of being the main villain. If he does not show out here, when or where else is he going to show all his cards. If someone believes that Oda actually had Linlin go all out then that's their prerogative. However, it's rather telling that he consciously chose to off-panel anytime she had Kid and Law on the ropes and simply had her eat attack after attack.

This topic and subject have been beaten to death but the simple answer is that Kaido is allowed to go all out and his not held back by plot while Linlin was. In fact, it's so comical that it took Plot bombs and a literal plot hole to remove her from the fight so that Oda could wrap up Luffy vs Kaido.

Anyway, I'll believe what the story tells us which is that they're nigh equals. Whoever you think wins is simply preference.

Reactions: Like 4 | Winner 4


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## RossellaFiamingo (Mar 31, 2022)

Fel1x said:


> I have a friendly relationship with @RossellaFiamingo, @Charlotte D. Kurisu  and @MO
> 
> so I will ignore this question
> 
> sorry, @arv993


Lol, vote homie. My vote is visible. There is nothing to hide. Wear your stan membership on your sleeve

Reactions: Friendly 3


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## J★J♥ (Mar 31, 2022)

Well Laws bullshit is still bigger bullshit than Luffys bullshit which is saying a lot atm.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Sherlōck (Mar 31, 2022)

Not that high a bar

Reactions: Funny 2 | Tier Specialist 3


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## VileNotice (Mar 31, 2022)

They should be extreme based on prior portrayal but Oda's sexism has made it a high diff fight at this point

Reactions: Like 2


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## Canute87 (Mar 31, 2022)

Big Mom was a battlefield removal.  Kaido is an actual defeat by someone who HAS to win.


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## Xebec (Mar 31, 2022)

Fel1x said:


> have to disagree here. but yeah, she will still be a serious threat


well by elbaf you'd think luffy will have mastered G5 and AdvCoC


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## Corax (Apr 1, 2022)

Kaido high/very high,clearly not extreme. It will be hard for him to beat BM due to her tough body and healing magic,but in the end he will prevail with difficulty. Of course he will be seriously wounded,but not mortally wounded or on the edge of defeat.


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## bil02 (Apr 1, 2022)

Linlin has mediocre offense but good durability and stamina for a human.

Kaido has better offense,reactions,speed,durability and stamina...yeah he is stronger and should high diff .

Linlin also hyped Kaido as unbeatable like Queen did King so the gap between her and Kaido should be similar to them.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Apr 1, 2022)

One fought Luffy the other didn’t, it’s sad that makes a difference l.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Ludi (Apr 1, 2022)

arv993 said:


> Neither used an awakening assuming they have it. Kaido has better endurance by far. His AP is also better. Did Oda make BM look too weak? What diff can she give kaido?


Assuming neither has awakening high diff. If either shows better feats later the diff obviously moves.


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## trance (Apr 1, 2022)

he gets pushed far but not to his limit


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## MrPopo (Apr 1, 2022)

Oda: big mom and kaido are near equals

OL: I don't believe you

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2 | Winner 1


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## arv993 (Apr 1, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> Oda: big mom and kaido are near equals
> 
> OL: I don't believe you


I believe it since oda constantly compares them.side by side. But by feats oda did BM dirty.


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## Adhominem (Apr 1, 2022)

Kaido is WSC while Big Mom had people outright stating she isn't like what she used to be. I feel like Kaido has been in his prime the whole post timeskip whereas old Big Meme has lost a step


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## killfox (Apr 1, 2022)

People keep saying BM lacks offense yet no one has tanked Ikkoku directly because they would die.

This is an attack that carved through an entire island.

Reactions: Like 3 | Disagree 1


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## Corax (Apr 1, 2022)

killfox said:


> People keep saying BM lacks offense yet no one has tanked Ikkoku directly because they would die.
> 
> This is an attack that carved through an entire island.


To be fair boro breath did the same yet G4 Luffy endured it. He didn't even need G5.


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## josh101 (Apr 1, 2022)

MO said:


> not that much. Kaido is lucky that this will be his last appearance so Oda is going all out for him. Big Mom is coming back so she will have a lot more to show in the future


Big Mom is not coming back, stop with the fucking copium already

Reactions: Agree 2 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## killfox (Apr 1, 2022)

Corax said:


> To be fair boro breath did the same yet G4 Luffy endured it. He didn't even need G5.


Ikkoku has been highlighted as an attack that would kill u if you’re hit.

Borro breath not so much.

Reactions: Like 2


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## killfox (Apr 1, 2022)

josh101 said:


> Big Mom is not coming back, stop with the fucking copium already


Assuming Big Mom is KOd by the combination of double awakening +2 bombs.

What stops her from using soul regen to get back to 100% again? Plot is the only thing I can think of

Reactions: Like 2


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## Strobacaxi (Apr 1, 2022)

They're basically equals with Kaido slightly ahead

Extreme extreme diff

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## MO (Apr 1, 2022)

josh101 said:


> Big Mom is not coming back, stop with the fucking copium already


the only copium being used here is by the people who think she's done for good.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Xebec (Apr 1, 2022)

josh101 said:


> Big Mom is not coming back, stop with the fucking copium already


not coming back this arc

Reactions: Like 3


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## josh101 (Apr 1, 2022)

MO said:


> the only copium being used here is by the people who think she's done for good.


Had a whole arc to herself, second antagonist in the next arc

not even important enough for Luffy to face now

clowned by 2 supporting characters

crew of wastemen - top 2 out of 3 already clowned by Luffy

had her Poneglyph stolen already



"she'll be back in elbaf!!!"

Reactions: Funny 6 | Tier Specialist 1


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## MO (Apr 1, 2022)

josh101 said:


> Had a whole arc to herself, second antagonist in the next arc
> 
> not even important enough for Luffy to face now
> 
> ...


She will. And you will enjoy every second of it.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 3 | Winner 4


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## Corax (Apr 1, 2022)

killfox said:


> Assuming Big Mom is KOd by the combination of double awakening +2 bombs.
> 
> What stops her from using soul regen to get back to 100% again? Plot is the only thing I can think of


In this arc?No. Not sure about Elbaf. Anyway I don't think she will be the main villain in Elbaf. Teach will be.


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## Beast (Apr 1, 2022)

killfox said:


> People keep saying BM lacks offense yet no one has tanked Ikkoku directly because they would die.
> 
> This is an attack that carved through an entire island.


But couldn’t get past Kidds body and suit  


Seems that attack is very strong if Kidd isn’t mentioned, what a surprise.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## killfox (Apr 1, 2022)

Beast said:


> But couldn’t get past Kidds body and suit





Beast said:


> Seems that attack is very strong if Kidd isn’t mentioned, what a surprise.





Beast said:


> But couldn’t get past Kidds body and suit
> 
> 
> Seems that attack is very strong if Kidd isn’t mentioned, what a surprise.


You must have missed the part where I said no one has directly TANKED Ikkoku.

Kids is always quick to point out that his metal is just Junk. His Junk took the attack.


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## Beast (Apr 1, 2022)

killfox said:


> You must have missed the part where I said no one has directly TANKED Ikkoku.
> 
> Kids is always quick to point out that his metal is just Junk. His Junk took the attack.


Nah, you don’t say. 


Now the junk is more durable then an island. 


Anyway, to cut it short since you didn’t get it. Kidd did tank the attack because the suit is apart of his fighting style and DF power.


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## Nello (Apr 1, 2022)

Anyone who can count to five without crying halfway through and literally eat their own crew is more impressive than BM. I don't care how strong she is because she's more likely to sabotage herself than achieve anything noteworthy. Shame on her ancestors.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## killfox (Apr 1, 2022)

Beast said:


> Now the junk is more durable then an island.


The junk was destroyed.



Beast said:


> Anyway, to cut it short since you didn’t get it. Kidd did tank the attack because the suit is apart of his fighting style and DF power.


_*no one has tanked Ikkoku directly because they would die.*_

You do know what *DIRECTLY* tanking means correct? IT MEANS A DIRECT HIT ON YOUR BODY.


Kids metal taking damage for him *isn’t him directly tanking at all.*


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## MrAnalogies (Apr 1, 2022)

Kaido is the much more competent fighter. Big Mom often replies on taunts, fear, and just overwhelming opponents with her sheer power. She occasionally does come up with good strategies, but she only does so when she's under pressure. Kaido is a lot more versatile with his abilities.

Kaido has continuously left Big Mom out when considering the people who pushed him. That, plus the fact he had his subordinates remove her handcuffs tells me she probably wouldn't be able to defeat him unless he was off guard or something. Kaido is just way too powerful and bounces back from damage too quickly. Big Mom herself laughs at the idea of someone defeating kaido and apparently thought she would need the Elbaf army to defeat him.

I'd say Kaido wins high difficulty 7/10 because BM is often an idiot.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Mariko (Apr 1, 2022)

BM talking bout Kaidou: "that thing"

Tells alot.


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## Beast (Apr 1, 2022)

killfox said:


> The junk was destroyed.
> 
> 
> _*no one has tanked Ikkoku directly because they would die.*_
> ...


The junk was blasted apart but we know that’s how the attack works. Hitting a solid object has never stopped it before, it just keeps going right through, so either the junk was enough to stop it and Kidd tanked it or the junk is separate from Kidd despite him being inside of it lol.


Nah, tank an attack doesn’t mean directly on your body, I don’t know where you got that from but that’s freestyling the actual meaning, which simply means to absorb damage with LITTLE to NO EFFECT. 


So, Kidd did indeed tank that attack with little to show for it because of his junk.


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## killfox (Apr 1, 2022)

Beast said:


> The junk was blasted apart but we know that’s how the attack works. Hitting a solid object has never stopped it before, it just keeps going right through, so either the junk was enough to stop it and Kidd tanked it or the junk is separate from Kidd despite him being inside of it lol.


We see the slash from Ikkoku passing through the armor and destroying it while narrowly missing Kid himself. It did keep going after it destroyed the metal it just didn’t hit Kid at all. 



Beast said:


> Nah, tank an attack doesn’t mean directly on your body,


Tanking means to take an attack with little damage. If the attack never touches you and instead hits a shield you created etc its


Beast said:


> I don’t know where you got that from but that’s freestyling the actual meaning, which simply means to absorb damage with LITTLE to NO EFFECT.


Kid himself didn’t even get touched by the attack. His metal took the full force. Do you consider Kid taking Kaidos wind slashes a tanking feat as well?  Even tho he said he took no damage and it was all the metal? 


Beast said:


> So, Kidd did indeed tank that attack with little to show for it because of his junk.


Please look up what “directly” means. No one has directly taken this attack.


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## Kylo Ren (Apr 1, 2022)

Much more impressive. Since you cannot beat Kaido if you are weaker than him, you have to surpass him to be able to beat him. BM on the other hand, could get defeated by other means even if you are weaker than her.


And high diff for Kaido.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 1, 2022)

Biggest Mom WINS

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Apr 1, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Biggest Mom WINS



Law Stans know

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## A Optimistic (Apr 1, 2022)

He has far better feats than her, he can beat her with high difficulty

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MrPopo (Apr 1, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> He has far better feats than her, he can beat her with high difficulty


  the fight would be minimum extreme diff

Reactions: Agree 1


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## A Optimistic (Apr 1, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> the fight would be minimum extreme diff



not after that amazing future sight feat


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## Beast (Apr 1, 2022)

killfox said:


> We see the slash from Ikkoku passing through the armor and destroying it while narrowly missing Kid himself. It did keep going after it destroyed the metal it just didn’t hit Kid at all.
> 
> 
> Tanking means to take an attack with little damage. If the attack never touches you and instead hits a shield you created etc its
> ...


where? BM blasts out Kidd from inside whatever floor and the attack kinda stopp with breaking bits of junk on one side with BM coming to clean up, I don’t remember the attack being shown to go any further then Kidds armour and body. 


Lol, you said his immediate body, which is not correct when it comes to the terms ‘tanked’. If you’re wearing armour and use armour in your fighting style then clearly unless stated otherwise The armour is taken into consideration with Kidds skillset especially considering he can freely armour up numerous times without a problem or lag, reason why Oda replayed that same scene almost but with the bull but that one he actually completely dodged unlike BM IK… which guess what if he didn’t dodge happened? He tanked 


Umm yes, same thing with the bull because it tells us enough that Kidd be it inside the junk, on top or not, Kidds armour has tanked these attacks again and again, with the same result that it doesn’t do jack shit to Kidd. It’s the same thing for Yamatos skin armour thing, she has. 


Seems more like you need to do the research on what these terms mean. Only you’re trying to separate things when it suits you best. Directly, indirectly Kidds tanked that attack, whether you want differentiate his powers from himself then go right ahead.


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## Turrin (Apr 1, 2022)

arv993 said:


> Neither used an awakening assuming they have it. Kaido has better endurance by far. His AP is also better. Did Oda make BM look too weak? What diff can she give kaido?


At most it’s high diff more rationally it’s Mid diff.

 But it’s not a matter of making BM too weak, the story never said she was as strong as Kaidou or even a high diff fight for him. Literally told twice by Kaidou that BM is not a serious fighter in his eyes, even G2/3 Luffy is a more serious threat to him.


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## trance (Apr 1, 2022)

MO said:


> She's not coming back. And you will enjoy every second of it.


amen


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## Draco Bolton (Apr 1, 2022)

MO said:


> not that much. Kaido is lucky that this will be his last appearance so Oda is going all out for him. Big Mom is coming back so she will have a lot more to show in the future


BIG MOM IS STEALING 10000 YEARS FROM GIANTS IN ELBAPH SCREENSHOT IT

Reactions: Funny 1


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## MYJC (Apr 1, 2022)

The Big Mom downplay continues. 

People seem to want to selectively forget that Law/Kid couldn't even physically defeat BM, they had to BFR her with a bunch of luck. 


There's no way she would lose to Kaido with any less than extreme. She might even win.

Reactions: Like 3 | Optimistic 1


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## Turrin (Apr 1, 2022)

MYJC said:


> The Big Mom downplay continues.
> 
> People seem to want to selectively forget that Law/Kid couldn't even physically defeat BM, they had to BFR her with a bunch of luck.
> 
> ...


Law with a single shock Willie broke BM’s ribs and arm (or Kidd did with a single bull). Kaidou has now taken 60 Attacks from just Post CoC Luffy and has not suffered that level of damage. Ether you think shock Willie is hundreds of times stronger then Luffy’s CoC Punches or Kaidou is just massively stronger then BM.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 3


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## MYJC (Apr 1, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Law with a single shock Willie broke BM’s ribs and arm (or Kidd did with a single bull). Kaidou has now taken 60 Attacks from just Post CoC Luffy and has not suffered that level of damage. Ether you think shock Willie is hundreds of times stronger then Luffy’s CoC Punches or Kaidou is just massively stronger then BM.



You're ignoring the fact that Big Mom's powers mean she can easily heal from that type of thing, so it breaking her arm is irrelevant.

Kaido may be able to tank more without breaking a bone, but he can't heal so the damage adds up whereas it doesn't for BM. If Kaido took a shock willie he might not break his arm but he wouldn't be able to heal from the damage either.

Reactions: Like 1


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## hajimehipo (Apr 1, 2022)

arv993 said:


> Neither used an awakening assuming they have it. Kaido has better endurance by far. His AP is also better. Did Oda make BM look too weak? What diff can she give kaido?


If they don't use it then they don't have it. 

This is one piece not HxH, Oda always display the full arsenal of his characters ( looking at you kite with 2 slots out of 9 shown )


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## Turrin (Apr 1, 2022)

MYJC said:


> You're ignoring the fact that Big Mom's powers mean she can easily heal from that type of thing, so it breaking her arm is irrelevant.
> 
> Kaido may be able to tank more without breaking a bone, but he can't heal so the damage adds up whereas it doesn't for BM. If Kaido took a shock willie he might not break his arm but he wouldn't be able to heal from the damage either.


How is consuming your own life span = easy?


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## MYJC (Apr 1, 2022)

Turrin said:


> How is consuming your own life span = easy?



It's easy if you have the Soul-Soul fruit and eat people's lifespan on a regular basis.

In that sort of situation using a little lifespan to fix any injury you suffer is no biggie.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Van Basten (Apr 1, 2022)

He’s a lot more impressive but it’s still an extreme diff fight.


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## Turrin (Apr 1, 2022)

MYJC said:


> It's easy if you have the Soul-Soul fruit and eat people's lifespan on a regular basis.
> 
> In that sort of situation using a little lifespan to fix any injury you suffer is no biggie.


She couldn’t use peoples life-span. She could only use her own. And if it was easy why was she only able to use that ability once in that entire fight against two individuals massively weaker then Kaidou?


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## Canute87 (Apr 1, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> not after that amazing future sight feat


Only to realize Big mom has it too.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## RossellaFiamingo (Apr 1, 2022)

Canute87 said:


> Only to realize Big mom has it too.


"Who do you think taught that lowly son of mine how to see the future"

Reactions: Winner 4


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## Hdw (Apr 1, 2022)

Want to say is high but extreme suits my headcanon more

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Duhul10 (Apr 1, 2022)

Better than expected, but portrayal brings them closer than feats. Kaido is decisively stronger in the end, though


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Apr 1, 2022)

I love how Kaido is supposed to shrug off Puncture Willie based on zero proof.          

Non-Awakening made him bleed FFS:

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 3


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## MYJC (Apr 1, 2022)

Turrin said:


> She couldn’t use peoples life-span. She could only use her own. And if it was easy why was she only able to use that ability once in that entire fight against two individuals massively weaker then Kaidou?



Maybe I need to reread the fight, but was it ever stated she couldn't use it more than once? I didn't get that impression.

My reading of the fight was that she was so hard to actually hurt that they were forced to BFR. Which you can't really say for Kaido so far.


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## Kanki (Apr 1, 2022)

There is no way Kaido beats BM with anything less than extreme diff. We never got to see BM in this type of scenario.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Turrin (Apr 1, 2022)

MYJC said:


> Maybe I need to reread the fight, but was it ever stated she couldn't use it more than once? I didn't get that impression.
> 
> My reading of the fight was that she was so hard to actually hurt that they were forced to BFR. Which you can't really say for Kaido so far.


It was never stated she couldn’t use it more then once, but it was never stated she could spam it and despite taking multiple hits she does not use the ability outside of that one time in the fight. The burden of proof would then be on you to show she can just keep spamming it taking years off her life

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Turrin (Apr 1, 2022)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> I love how Kaido is supposed to shrug off Puncture Willie based on zero proof.
> 
> Non-Awakening made him bleed


Acting like the scabbers didn’t also make him bleed inconsequentially. It’s really simple ether you think 60 Blows from CoC Luffy is massively weaker then puncture Willie or Kaidou tanks it better. Your choice

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Apr 1, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Acting like the scabbers didn’t also make him bleed inconsequentially. It’s really simple ether you think 60 Blows from CoC Luffy is massively weaker then puncture Willie or Kaidou tanks it better. Your choice



My choice is to read the manga and comprehend it at an above 5th grade level.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Turrin (Apr 1, 2022)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> My choice is to read the manga and comprehend it at an above 5th grade level.


I’m glad you have gotten to 6th Grade level, it’s been months dude.

Now let’s see if you can get past 1st Grade math. Is Shock Willie >, <, or = 60 CoC G2-5 Blows.

I know you can do it.


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Apr 1, 2022)

Pray she doesn’t come back. If she dies she’s a hype tool for mastered g5


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## icyBankai (Apr 1, 2022)

BM has all the tools on paper to be very successful and the GOAT. However when it comes to execution she falters a bit.

Gets easily distracted and has low battle IQ.

If she weren't mentally handicapped and consistently shafted by Oda it'd be a different story


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Apr 1, 2022)

Turrin said:


> I’m glad you have gotten to 6th Grade level, it’s been months dude.
> 
> Now let’s see if you can get past 1st Grade math. Is Shock Willie >, <, or = 60 CoC G2-5 Blows.
> 
> I know you can do it.



Stop deflecting. Puncture Willie fucks up Kaido due to scaling from Injection Shot. It's two attacks of the same type whereas Luffy's attacks are blunt damage.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Van Basten (Apr 1, 2022)

Way too many people voting high diff.


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## Turrin (Apr 1, 2022)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> Stop deflecting. Puncture Willie fucks up Kaido due to scaling from Injection Shot. It's two attacks of the same type whereas Luffy's attacks are blunt damage.


I literally already debunked this, by reminding you the scabbers also made Kaidou bleed like injection shot. That doesn’t mean much in contrast to Kaidou being able to rank 60 blows from Luffy with less damage then a single Puncture Willie did to BM.


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## Amatérasu’s Son (Apr 1, 2022)

I say Extreme Diff. The structure of a battle between the two will be very different. For one, unlike Luffy Linlin will start this match out with Advanced Haohshoku Haki Infusion offense and defense. She's not spending half of the fight whittling away at Kaido because she doesn't have the necessary skill to do real damage to him. They both have huge Area of Effect attacks, can fly, and have naturally high defenses and absurd strength.





Beast said:


> Nah, tank an attack doesn’t mean directly on your body, I don’t know where you got that from but that’s freestyling the actual meaning, which simply means to absorb damage with LITTLE to NO EFFECT.





killfox said:


> Tanking means to take an attack with little damage. If the attack never touches you and instead hits a shield you created etc its



Tanking seems to have too much of a varied definition.

Many people here think Tanking means eat an attack with no greater defense than say Tekkai or Haki and completely negating the damage.

Traditional Tanking as a matter of class or function in a team is absorbing said damage by any means, either via damage resistance, outpacing the damage via regenerative healing, or actively healing the damage as it happens, and not being debilitated and taken out of the fight. Eating all the damage so weaker or less physically resilient team mates don't have to.

The first is more ignoring damage than true tanking.




Turrin said:


> Law with a single shock Willie broke BM’s ribs and arm (or Kidd did with a single bull). Kaidou has now taken 60 Attacks from just Post CoC Luffy and has not suffered that level of damage. Ether you think shock Willie is hundreds of times stronger then Luffy’s CoC Punches or Kaidou is just massively stronger then BM.



That assumes that both attacks are put up against the same variety of defense. Linlin's been consistently stated and shown to be an iron balloon. Her skin is impenetrable. Everything inside is of a more normal resiliency based on her also absurd strength. So you can kill her by throwing her off of Whole Cake Chateau, or by break her bones with an extreme impact, but you won't breach her skin.

Kaido has shown a more general extreme durability and is just generally "invincible" requiring Advanced Busoshoku Haki to even damage, and Advanced Haoshoku Haki to meaningfully and consistently damage. Kaido seems to generally be equally tough all the way through. Unlike Linlin who could be killed by the sudden stop of a high fall, Kaido is immune to even the extreme blunt force trauma of falling 30,000 feet with little more than a bad headache.

Law's Devil Fruit has proven it is able to more or less ignore the defense of the targets with specific attacks. Linlin however is more vulnerable to Law's abilities because they completely bypass her iron balloon skin and get to the softer insides. Kaido's insides are also hard, though clearly he still takes more damage from internal attacks than external.

The difference between Law's attacks and Luffy's attacks is that Luffy's attacks are high damage attacks with a penetration mod, that still has to be calculated against the target's defense and armor stats. Law's attacks are weaker by completely ignore the target's defense stats altogether.



Canute87 said:


> Only to realize Big mom has it too.


Or worse, Mother Vision.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1 | Friendly 1


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Apr 1, 2022)

Turrin said:


> I literally already debunked this, by reminding you the scabbers also made Kaidou bleed like injection shot. That doesn’t mean much in contrast to Kaidou being able to rank 60 blows from Luffy with less damage then a single Puncture Willie did to BM.



How does Puncture Willie scale to Injection Shot and Scabbards' attacks?  

No. I am talking about two attacks of the same affinity. That's a direct comparison. We've seen what IS does to Kaido. It's easy to assume that PW does much more damage. 

And you shouldn't bring up the Scabbards. Big Mom can actually take YC level damage without bleeding.

Reactions: Like 3 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Bernkastel (Apr 1, 2022)

Extreme diff for the dragon...BM fought 2 of the strongest SNs who awakened their fruits,one of them was also the perfect counter to her durability(and every character in OP tbh) and the best they could accomplish was a BFR.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Turrin (Apr 1, 2022)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> How does Puncture Willie scale to Injection Shot and Scabbards' attacks?
> 
> No. I am talking about two attacks of the same affinity. That's a direct comparison. We've seen what IS does to Kaido. It's easy to assume that PW does much more damage.
> 
> And you shouldn't bring up the Scabbards. Big Mom can actually take YC level damage without bleeding.


Your literally the one trying to scale them….

No one is arguing puncture Willie won’t do more damage then Injection shot. What I’m saying is it would have to do massively more then 60 CoC Luffy hits to damage Kaidou as much as BM was damaged by it. Which I don’t see any logical reason to assume.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Turrin (Apr 1, 2022)

Amatérasu’s Son said:


> I say Extreme Diff. The structure of a battle between the two will be very different. For one, unlike Luffy Linlin will start this match out with Advanced Haohshoku Haki Infusion offense and defense. She's not spending half of the fight whittling away at Kaido because she doesn't have the necessary skill to do real damage to him. They both have huge Area of Effect attacks, can fly, and have naturally high defenses and absurd strength.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can understand getting into these specifics if we are comparing Shock Willie to a single CoC attack or even 5, but 60 from varrying Gears, it’s just becomes apparent Kaidou is way tougher at that point


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Apr 1, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Your literally the one trying to scale them….
> 
> No one is arguing puncture *Willie* won’t do more damage then Injection shot. What I’m saying is it would have to do massively more then *60 CoC* Luffy hits to damage Kaidou as much as BM was damaged by it. Which I don’t see any logical reason to assume.



Two different attacks. PW does the same damage to Kaido that it did to BM if not more, given that a Non-Awakening made him bleed. Simple as that.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Turrin (Apr 1, 2022)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> Two different attacks. PW does the same damage to Kaido that it did to BM if not more, given that a Non-Awakening made him bleed. Simple as that.


So again your saying it does more damage then 60 CoC Attacks. I see no logical reason to assume this, sorry.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 2 | Dislike 1


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Apr 1, 2022)

Turrin said:


> So again your saying it does more damage then 60 CoC Attacks. I see no logical reason to assume this, sorry.



As opposed to assume 60 CoC attacks does more than damage than PW?


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## Turrin (Apr 1, 2022)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> As opposed to assume 60 CoC attacks does more than damage than PW?


Yeah seems way more logical that 60 CoC attacks do more damage then a single PW, when G4 individual attacks (Pre CoC) did more damage then Law’s basic move set; and now most of these 60 Hits are CoC Amped G4 hits or G5.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Apr 1, 2022)

Turrin said:


> when G4 individual attacks (Pre CoC) did more damage then Law’s basic move set



Because PW is the same as IS or GF.


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## Xebec (Apr 1, 2022)



Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Apr 1, 2022)

Kaido is the top tier with the most Ls so maybe you're on to something

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 6


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## Amatérasu’s Son (Apr 1, 2022)

Turrin said:


> I can understand getting into these specifics if we are comparing Shock Willie to a single CoC attack or even 5, but 60 from varrying Gears, it’s just becomes apparent Kaidou is way tougher at that point


I mean it's difficult to compare the overall damage of two different strategies on two different targets. Luffy was always trying to chop down a really big tree by swinging as hard as he could over and over again whittling it down as he goes. Law was trying to slide dynamite into the core of a different tree with a different kind of wood.


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## Dunno (Apr 1, 2022)

50% chance of a high diff victory. 50% chance of a low diff victory. On average, Kaido mid diffs.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Friendly 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Kingslayer (Apr 1, 2022)

Big mom was nerfed by oda its hard to tell how difficult  the fight would be with kaido I would say high to extreme.I would say kaido could win because of his ancient zoan df. 

Law's haxfruit played huge role in defeating her and honestly  big mom not using her awakening  and forced kids and law to use it the fight could have gone both ways. 


To me it's more of plot kai magic oda had no choice big mom had to lose for kidd and law to be seen as future threat to world govt.


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## t0xeus (Apr 2, 2022)

I used to stan Big Mom back in the day but the more we've seen from her the more my disappointment with my series grew, eventually making me drop the manga and stop watching the anime

Kaido low diff any day, and I say this as Big Mom's former #1 fan who used to rate as as top 1 in verse before we saw her excuse for """"feats""""

Reactions: Funny 1 | Friendly 1


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## Beast (Apr 2, 2022)

@Amatérasu’s Son 
What a way to ruin the party, I think I had him there… breaking point had been reached but yeah, just need my man’s to get the credit because only maybe Marco is surviving that getting hit with the full blast because of his regen.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Turrin (Apr 2, 2022)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> Because PW is the same as IS or GF.


Of course it isnt. But if CoC G4 >> G4 >> IS. It’s extremely weird to imagine SW not only > G4 CoC, but > 40 G4 CoC attacks + G5 attacks


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## Turrin (Apr 2, 2022)

Amatérasu’s Son said:


> I mean it's difficult to compare the overall damage of two different strategies on two different targets. Luffy was always trying to chop down a really big tree by swinging as hard as he could over and over again whittling it down as he goes. Law was trying to slide dynamite into the core of a different tree with a different kind of wood.


Law is always trying to fight this way, but despite this his attacks did way less damage on Doffy then G4 did. Now Luffy had CoC to amp G4 even further and G5; it seems really strange to say Shock Willie is then > 60 of these hits. This would mean Shock Willie is hundreds of times stronger then Injection Shot; and Law’s awakening is giving his attacks a maasively greater amp then Luffy God DF Awakening + CoC grant his.

I just don’t see how we can buy this


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Apr 2, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Of course it is.



What?


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## Turrin (Apr 2, 2022)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> What?


Once again deflecting by focusing on a typo. Concession accepted

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Apr 2, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Once again deflecting by focusing on a typo. Concession accepted



Why do you assume G4 >> IS? IS made Kaido bleed, and made him angry. It isn't some jabroni attack Kaido scoffed at. Oh, right because you're biased. That's why. 

And PW >>>> IS. Just look at the scale of the attack alone.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Turrin (Apr 2, 2022)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> Why do you assume G4 >> IS? IS made Kaido bleed, and made him angry. It isn't some jabroni attack Kaido scoffed at. Oh, right because you're biased. That's why.


Because we have an entire fight showing G4 is much stronger then Law’s basic move-set. But let’s ignore all scaling and say any attack that makes Kaidou angry and bleed is above G4. Yeah I’m sure Kawamatsu’s attacks are > G4 too


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Apr 2, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Because we have an entire fight showing G4 is much stronger then Law’s basic move-set. But let’s ignore all scaling and say any attack that makes Kaidou angry and bleed is above G4. Yeah I’m sure Kawamatsu’s attacks are > G4 too



Again, show me how G4 is stronger than IS. I'll wait  

And good job ignoring how PW is MUCH stronger than IS. If we go by scale alone, PW dwarves IS in any conceivable way.


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## Turrin (Apr 2, 2022)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> Again, show me how G4 is stronger than IS. I'll wait
> 
> And good job ignoring how PW is MUCH stronger than IS. If we go by scale alone, PW dwarves IS in any conceivable way.


We literally saw it was strong against Doffy. I’ve given you the exams multiple times now. And that was before Ryou and CoC.
—-
Good job attacking a straw man. I have always said PW >> IS. That’s not the contention. The contention is

G4 CoC > G4 Ryou > G4 >> IS.

Therefore I don’t see a single PW being > 40 CoC G4 attack, as that would make PW hundreds of times stronger amp to AP then CoC + Ryou. And even if you want to say Awakening is just that much better then CoC, Luffy is now hitting Kaidou with a God DF Awakening and CoC. So even then it would not make sense for one puncture Willie to be that strong


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Apr 2, 2022)

Turrin said:


> We literally saw it was strong against Doffy. I’ve given you the exams multiple times now. And that was before Ryou and CoC.
> —-
> Good job attacking a straw man. I have always said PW >> IS. That’s not the contention. The contention is
> 
> ...



Why is Doffy part of the conversation?  

Why not use a much more direct comparison of the rooftop. Both IS and G4 damaged Kaido. Why is one supposedly >> the other? And why does that somehow factor in PW and IS's comparison. It's really simple but you keep using dumb mental gymnastics to fit your narrative. PW >>>> IS, ergo the damage Kaido would receive from PW is substantial and would easily break Kaido's bones. There's nothing that would suggest otherwise.


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## Turrin (Apr 2, 2022)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> Why is Doffy part of the conversation?
> 
> Why not use a much more direct comparison of the rooftop. Both IS and G4 damaged Kaido. Why is one supposedly >> the other? And why does that somehow factor in PW and IS's comparison. It's really simple but you keep using dumb mental gymnastics to fit your narrative. PW >>>> IS, ergo the damage Kaido would receive from PW is substantial and would easily break Kaido's bones. There's nothing that would suggest otherwise.


I already told you what suggest otherwise is that Kaidou could take 40 G4 hits and multiple G5 hits without broken bones.

Also just damaging Kaidou doesn’t mean the same amount of damage (the Doffy scaling shows this). Though inherently even if I granted IS equal damage to say G4 Ryou as both “damaged him”; this changed little to nothing about how absurd the scaling your suggesting still is.

As we would still have G4 CoC >> G4 Ryou =~ IS. Which would still require Shock Willie to be nearly a hundred times greater amp then CoC to AP to justify the difference we’re seeing and a massively greater amp then G5 Awakening + CoC. 
—-
Also side note I don’t know why you keep saying PW, when Law broke BM bones with SW. He didn’t even need PW to do this. So it’s even more ridiculous scaling on your behalf when you realize your suggesting Law’s not even strongest awakening attack is at this level.


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## Siskebabas (Apr 2, 2022)

Imo kaido receives slightly less damage from pw then big mom due to generally having beter hype with invicibility. Though feat wise kaido has more hp then big mom


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## Amatérasu’s Son (Apr 2, 2022)

Beast said:


> @Amatérasu’s Son
> What a way to ruin the party, I think I had him there… breaking point had been reached but yeah, just need my man’s to get the credit because only maybe Marco is surviving that getting hit with the full blast because of his regen.


Sorry man.


Turrin said:


> Law is always trying to fight this way, but despite this his attacks did way less damage on Doffy then G4 did. Now Luffy had CoC to amp G4 even further and G5; it seems really strange to say Shock Willie is then > 60 of these hits. This would mean Shock Willie is hundreds of times stronger then Injection Shot; and Law’s awakening is giving his attacks a maasively greater amp then Luffy God DF Awakening + CoC grant his.
> 
> I just don’t see how we can buy this


Wouldn't we be comparing Shockwille to 30 hits? He did use it on her twice. And what's your opinion on Gamma Knife weakening Doflamingo and lessening his performance against Gear Fourth?


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## Brian (Apr 2, 2022)

Oda has been suggesting that they are even it's silly to think other wise

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Jay. (Apr 2, 2022)

depends


do you think big mom is actually an older generation?


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Apr 2, 2022)

Turrin said:


> I already told you what suggest otherwise is that Kaidou could take 40 G4 hits and multiple G5 hits without broken bones.



And how does that relate to IS making him bleed? You're just assuming G4 hits are > IS to fit your agenda. When there's no indication that IS is considerably weaker than G4 hits. 



Turrin said:


> Also side note I don’t know why you keep saying PW, when Law broke BM bones with SW. He didn’t even need PW to do this. So it’s even more ridiculous scaling on your behalf when you realize your suggesting Law’s not even strongest awakening attack is at this level.



WRONG

It was Shock Willie + *Punk Bison* that broke her bones. And then she healed. Gets your facts straight


PW >>> SW. Even a blind man can see this. PW *helped *bring her down for good *after she healed up*. You can easily see how PW is much stronger than SW. Ergo, either PW alone or SW+PB would break Kaido's bones.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Lawliet (Apr 2, 2022)

Jay. said:


> depends
> 
> 
> do you think big mom is actually an older generation?


Big Mom is an older generation.

She was a grown ass pirate determined to be the PK when Kaidou just joined the rocks as a 15 years old apprentice.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Jay. (Apr 2, 2022)

Lawliet said:


> Big Mom is an older generation.
> 
> She was a grown ass pirate determined to be the PK when Kaidou just joined the rocks as a 15 years old apprentice.


then eventually kaido could surpass her and newgate

however to me they are all in the same ball park with primebeard having the edge rn however Kaido is catching up and we have no idea what Prime Linlin can do


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## Lawliet (Apr 2, 2022)

Jay. said:


> then eventually kaido could surpass her and newgate
> 
> however to me they are all in the same ball park with primebeard having the edge rn however Kaido is catching up and we have no idea what Prime Linlin can do


From a story point of view, it doesn't make sense for Kaidou to be weaker. 

How can Luffy surpass Roger if all the people he fights are weaker than the people Roger fought lol, come on guys 

Luffy is going to surpass Roger and Kaidou is the one helping him do that. Yamato compared the Luffy vs Kaidou clash to Roger vs WB based on the description Oden wrote. 

Luffy vs Teach is going to be a lot beyond what Roger and WB faced during their time. 

Then we possibly have something even beyond that, the WG itself or the WG then teach. 

Long story short. Kaidou = prime WB and Roger if not stronger

Reactions: Like 1


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## Etherborn (Apr 2, 2022)

MO said:


> not that much. Kaido is lucky that this will be his last appearance so Oda is going all out for him. Big Mom is coming back so she will have a lot more to show in the future



Not that much meaning he’s slightly stronger? Just asking since you voted that Big Mom wins and all.


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## Maruo (Apr 2, 2022)

Kaido probably high diffs Big Mom at this point. He's only just started to use FS and he likely still has an Awakening to combat Luffy's G5. Big Mom might still have Awakening and better aCoC usage as unused cards but I doubt this will be enough to make up the difference.

Reactions: Like 1


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## convict (Apr 2, 2022)

As I predicted we went from 80+ percent people thinking extreme difficulty to now 50%.

After the next few chapters it will be even less.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Apr 2, 2022)

Maruo said:


> Kaido probably high diffs Big Mom at this point. He's only just started to use FS and he likely still has an Awakening to combat Luffy's G5. Big Mom might still have Awakening and better aCoC usage as unused cards but I doubt this will be enough to make up the difference.



Ehhh... Law's Awakening transformed him from YC to beyond YFM. Same with Luffy's jump. a hax Awakening can be a huge difference maker. The fact that she didn't use it even risking defeat could mean it's some huge bullshit fuckery that can only be used a few times in a lifetime.


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## Amatérasu’s Son (Apr 2, 2022)

Jay. said:


> depends
> 
> 
> do you think big mom is actually an older generation?





Lawliet said:


> Big Mom is an older generation.
> 
> She was a grown ass pirate determined to be the PK when Kaidou just joined the rocks as a 15 years old apprentice.


She's thirteen years older than him, but they were basically peers, in the same crew at the same time. Keep in mind that Robin is eleven years older than Luffy for reference. Linlin is a fairly special case, there aren't that many pirate captains who start at age six.

That may have made a difference when he first joined, but by the time of God Valley the distinction was pretty meaningless.


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## Lawliet (Apr 2, 2022)

Amatérasu’s Son said:


> She's thirteen years older than him, but they were basically peers, in the same crew at the same time.


Peers because the Rocks crew understood one language only, strength. And this speaks alot about kaidou if you think about it, he joined in as a 15 years old and managed to be a powerhouse amongst powerhouses. He's just like Luffy. 




Amatérasu’s Son said:


> Keep in mind that Robin is eleven years older than Luffy for reference


Yes, which is why Robin was a savior when she joined the crew. She said it to Usopp, she was forced to tag along outlaws from a young age so she can be of great help to the SHs when she first joined. 

She was informing the SHs about alot of stuff as a new Comer. Not something that happens often for new comers as new comers usually are surprised by everything and adventure struck. She started being adventure struck when the Skypeia adventure reached its peak in terms of reaching it because that's a different type of adventure she never been on

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MO (Apr 2, 2022)

Etherborn said:


> Not that much meaning he’s slightly stronger? Just asking since you voted that Big Mom wins and all.


he is more impressive for now. Didn't say he is stronger.


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## Etherborn (Apr 2, 2022)

MO said:


> he is more impressive for now. Didn't say he is stronger.



Oh, so you're just impressed by his awesome beard then?

Ok, carry on!

Reactions: Funny 2


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## MO (Apr 2, 2022)

Etherborn said:


> Oh, so you're just impressed by his awesome beard then?
> 
> Ok, carry on!


He's fight has been given a lot more panel time so obviously, he comes off as more impressive.


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## Thdyingbreed (Apr 3, 2022)

There prior portrayal still stands Kaido would need extreme difficulty to beat Big Mom and nothing less.


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## Dellinger (Apr 3, 2022)

People now say that Mom doesnt have enough panel time ?

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Turrin (Apr 3, 2022)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> And how does that relate to IS making him bleed? You're just assuming G4 hits are > IS to fit your agenda. When there's no indication that IS is considerably weaker than G4 hits.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


1) No your assuming any attack that made Kaidou bleed is >= G4 to fit your agenda despite Kawamatsu being able to do this. This is why I asked you is Kawamatsu > G4 now

2) Guess what it wasn’t Puncture Willie, as you have been claiming Mr Facts straight . Also BM only credits SW for the broken bones not Kidd. 

3) Yes because your baselessly scaling BM to Kaidou I got it man. I tire of a Mod not understanding simple scaling


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## Turrin (Apr 3, 2022)

Amatérasu’s Son said:


> Sorry man.
> 
> Wouldn't we be comparing Shockwille to 30 hits? He did use it on her twice. And what's your opinion on Gamma Knife weakening Doflamingo and lessening his performance against Gear Fourth?


He only needed to use it once to break her bones. So no it would be 60 Hits and unless Kaidou’s face or jaw is broken it would then be 60 Hits + CoC G5 Awakening Final Blow this last chapter.

This would mean Law’s Awakening not even his best move >>>> God DF Nika Awakening + CoC + 60 other CoC Blows.

Why would you think this is a thing?
—-
My opinion is it didn’t weaken Doffy any more then Bellamy weakened Luffy as it was never stated to have done so.


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Apr 3, 2022)

@Turrin counting hits and using hit maths to make his argument make sense.  

"It's 30 hits, no, it's 40 hits. "


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## Turrin (Apr 3, 2022)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> @Turrin counting hits and using hit maths to make his argument make sense.
> 
> "It's 30 hits, no, it's 40 hits. "


Concession accepted that you have no real argument. To the point where you have to lie about your stance in other threads to save face. Is Shock Willie > G5/G4

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Apr 3, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Concession accepted that you have no real argument. To the point where you have to lie about your stance in other threads to save face. Is Shock Willie > G5/G4



Shock Willie is actually 17.5² AdCoC hits

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Turrin (Apr 3, 2022)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> Shock Willie is actually 17.5² AdCoC hits


Glad even you agree your stance is a joke

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Kamisori (Apr 3, 2022)

Can't enjoy a thread without Turrin and Kurisu beefing

Reactions: Funny 1 | Friendly 1


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Apr 3, 2022)

Kamisori said:


> Can't enjoy a thread without Turrin and Kurisu beefing



@Turrin let's stop. For the sake of the kids.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Turrin (Apr 3, 2022)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> @Turrin let's stop. For the sake of the kids.


I’ll stop when you quite being bias or a Moderator. You shouldn’t be both.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Amatérasu’s Son (Apr 3, 2022)

Turrin said:


> He only needed to use it once to break her bones. So no it would be 60 Hits and unless Kaidou’s face or jaw is broken it would then be 60 Hits + CoC G5 Awakening Final Blow this last chapter.
> 
> This would mean Law’s Awakening not even his best move >>>> God DF Nika Awakening + CoC + 60 other CoC Blows.
> 
> ...


Because I think it's unrealistic to think that the first Shock wille did no damage. Assuming equal strength in both activations, it's entirely possible that the first caused fractures or microfractures that weakened her bones for the second attack, or third if we're adding in Kid's attack as well.

As for Doflamingo, I concur with the view that his performance worsened after he repaired himself from the Gamma Knife, even before Gear Fourth. 

He didn't heal himself, he stitched himself back together and kept fighting. His body wasn't going to have the same structural integrity being held together by his seams as it would normally. On the other hand I also understand the opposite view, as if he really was being held together by his string then he should've finished dying once Luffy knocked him out as his strings would've disappeared.


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## Turrin (Apr 3, 2022)

Amatérasu’s Son said:


> Because I think it's unrealistic to think that the first Shock wille did no damage. Assuming equal strength in both activations, it's entirely possible that the first caused fractures or microfractures that weakened her bones for the second attack, or third if we're adding in Kid's attack as well.
> 
> As for Doflamingo, I concur with the view that his performance worsened after he repaired himself from the Gamma Knife, even before Gear Fourth.
> 
> He didn't heal himself, he stitched himself back together and kept fighting. His body wasn't going to have the same structural integrity being held together by his seams as it would normally. On the other hand I also understand the opposite view, as if he really was being held together by his string then he should've finished dying once Luffy knocked him out as his strings would've disappeared.


I mean she amped herself with her Soul after that first SW. So I would not think she has much lasting damage from it. But even assuming she did you would still be claiming 2 SW >>> 60 CoC Attacks from Luffy including G5 CoC. Why would Law’s awakening be that much stronger then Luffy’s Awakening and CoC. 
—-
Ether way I don’t believe Law in that fight is doing more damage to Doffy then G4 did. And that’s a G4 Pre-Ryou and CoC. And now your telling me Law’s Awakening >>> G5 + CoC


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Apr 3, 2022)

Turrin said:


> I’ll stop when you quite being bias or a Moderator. You shouldn’t be both.



I broke him

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Turrin (Apr 3, 2022)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> I broke him


It’s sad that you think someone needs to be broken to point out an obvious fact that the forum shouldn’t allow Bias Moderators that abuse their power.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Tsukuyomi (Apr 3, 2022)

Comedy Mod vs the Resident's Bush Diver. 
I wonder who will come out on top

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Apr 3, 2022)

Yes


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## Turrin (Apr 3, 2022)

Code said:


> Comedy Mod vs the Resident's Bush Diver.
> I wonder who will come out on top


Code I need you to figure out your own joke my man instead of using mine. I know you can do it. Even for me Bush diver was so 2019

Reactions: Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Inferno Jewls (Apr 3, 2022)

Meme is a absolute joke character, Oda had taken a shit once and a massive turd had flung out of his ass

he took a peep at it and that's how he came up with big moms shitty design.

Kaido is more impressive than Big Mom in every single aspect.

Reactions: Lewd 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Empathy (Apr 3, 2022)

Big Mom isn’t an above average top tier (just a solid, middle of the pack one) and Kaidou is. He’d beat her with just high difficulty.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## RayanOO (Apr 3, 2022)

Kaido is 100 times more impressive than BM but would still need extreme diff to beat her

Reactions: Agree 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Turrin (Apr 3, 2022)

Empathy said:


> Big Mom isn’t an above average top tier (just a solid, middle of the pack one) and Kaidou is. He’d beat her with just high difficulty.


What Top Tier is BM probably beating to put her even Middle of the pack. She is thee weakest Top Tier we have any real fights from

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Empathy (Apr 3, 2022)

Turrin said:


> What Top Tier is BM probably beating to put her even Middle of the pack. She is thee weakest Top Tier we have any real fights from



Maybe Kizaru or Fujitora. Being above two low top tiers combined (Law + Kid) puts her at middle of the pack. All Yonkou/Admirals should start at middle-of-the-pack solid top tier bare minimum.


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## Captain Quincy (Apr 3, 2022)

Depends on your definition of diff. I only consider extreme diff as fights that can go either way so I'd still say this is that.


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## Turrin (Apr 3, 2022)

Empathy said:


> Maybe Kizaru or Fujitora. Being above two low top tiers combined (Law + Kid) puts her at middle of the pack. All Yonkou/Admirals should start at middle-of-the-pack solid top tier bare minimum.


She lost to them, so she was bellow those 2. I also question if they are even Top Tiers.

If all Yonko and Admirals are Mid Top Tier who is Low Top Tier, YFM? If so then I see where your coming from.


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## Empathy (Apr 3, 2022)

Turrin said:


> She lost to them, so she was bellow those 2. I also question if they are even Top Tiers.
> 
> If all Yonko and Admirals are Mid Top Tier who is Low Top Tier, YFM? If so then I see where your coming from.



Yeah, YC1-level is low top tier for me. High tier ends around Queen for me; a guy with generally high stats, but no Haki or DF specialty/mastery or hax gimmicks. Solid top tiers start at average Yonkou/Admirals, ie Big Mom or Kizaru. Then there are above average top tiers like Kaidou or Akainu, etc. Marco, I see as the gatekeeper to solid top-tier status, because when BB defeated him, he was declared Yonkou-level as a result.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Turrin (Apr 3, 2022)

Empathy said:


> Yeah, YC1-level is low top tier for me. High tier ends around Queen for me; a guy with generally high stats, but no Haki or DF specialty/mastery or hax gimmicks. Solid top tiers start at average Yonkou/Admirals, ie Big Mom or Kizaru. Then there are above average top tiers like Kaidou or Akainu, etc. Marco, I see as the gatekeeper to solid top-tier status, because when BB defeated him, he was declared Yonkou-level as a result.


Okay I have YFM a tier bellow Yonko/Admirals. But if you are saying BM is simply above those guys then I agree. 
—-
Marco alongside probably Beckmann are the strongest YFM for me, so Teach beating Marco and capturing WB territories made him Yonko/Admiral level is something I agree with I just don’t count top tier that way

Reactions: Agree 1


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## arv993 (Apr 3, 2022)

Turrin said:


> She lost to them, so she was bellow those 2. I also question if they are even Top Tiers.
> 
> If all Yonko and Admirals are Mid Top Tier who is Low Top Tier, YFM? If so then I see where your coming from.


The loser usually doesn't spare the winner or have the winner’s crew begging the loser to take it easy. She also didn't use acoc and was BFRed with the help of bombs. Kidd and law are not stronger and they are two Yc1+s. Fuji and kizaru have no shot at being stronger than Big mom.


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## Turrin (Apr 3, 2022)

arv993 said:


> The loser usually doesn't spare the winner or have the winner’s crew begging the loser to take it easy. She also didn't use acoc and was BFRed with the help of bombs. Kidd and law are not stronger and they are two Yc1+s. Fuji and kizaru have no shot at being stronger than Big mom.



Cope harder


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## Germa 66 (Apr 3, 2022)

Mid difficulty


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## arv993 (Apr 3, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Cope harder



Lol I guess kaido is going to be the winner too. 

Get over it two YFms couldn't take out BM legitimately while kizaru and co are going down to eos sanji and crew

Reactions: Like 1


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## Yonko RedHair Shanks (Apr 3, 2022)

BM gets mid-diffed.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Turrin (Apr 3, 2022)

arv993 said:


> Lol I guess kaido is going to be the winner too.
> 
> Get over it two YFms couldn't take out BM legitimately while kizaru and co are going down to eos sanji and crew


Kaidou was the winner of that fight with Luffy. Now we are in another fight with Luffy.
—-
Look man Law and Kidd fought Kaidou before BM; and BM had extreme help form the surroundings being able to leech souls from people. Your just being bias in only looking at the advantages Law and Kidd had.


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## arv993 (Apr 3, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Kaidou was the winner of that fight with Luffy. Now we are in another fight with Luffy.
> —-
> Look man Law and Kidd fought Kaidou before BM; and BM had extreme help form the surroundings being able to leech souls from people. Your just being bias in only looking at the advantages Law and Kidd had.


Lol you know how arbitrary that is right. Kaido literally dropped luffy into the sea and he didn't get the winner title then. Kaido dropped luffy multiple times and didn't get the winner title. BM was stronger than two YFM level people with one YFM being the best support character. 

The stronger character doesn't always win esp due to outside circumstances or cheapshots like kaido vs. Oden.


I'm biased  

BM spared those boys, the PIS the two had were on a luffy like level.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Turrin (Apr 3, 2022)

arv993 said:


> Lol you know how arbitrary that is right. Kaido literally dropped luffy into the sea and he didn't get the winner title then. Kaido dropped luffy multiple times and didn't get the winnee title, so yea it doesn't matter. BM was stronger than two YFM level people with one YFM being the best support character.
> 
> 
> I'm biased
> ...


1) Not getting the winner title doesn’t mean he wasn’t the winner of that fight too. The only thing the winner title means is that he was for sure the winner of the fight where he got it. Saying it doesn’t mean anything when Luffy for sure lost that fight, it’s objectively ridiculous too. It’s like your arguing multiple fights in the same time frame can’t happen…

2) And they also had PIS allowing Bm time to recover with her Souls too. PIS works both ways for the sake of the story. Once again your just being bias and only considering the advantages/disadvantages of one side. Where is the consideration for 

- Kid and Law spamming their moves on their way up to the roof top and against Kaidou 
- Kaidou landing Thunder Bagua on Law
- Kidd and Law wasting stamina to knock BM off the roof only for Kaidou to free Prometheus and save her, foiling their plan
- BM having access to a ton of souls from Fodder
- Etc….


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## arv993 (Apr 3, 2022)

Turrin said:


> 1) Not getting the winner title doesn’t mean he wasn’t the winner of that fight too. The only thing the winner title means is that he was for sure the winner of the fight where he got it. Saying it doesn’t mean anything when Luffy for sure lost that fight, it’s objectively ridiculous too. It’s like your arguing multiple fights in the same time frame can’t happen…
> 
> 2) And they also had PIS allowing Bm time to recover with her Souls too. PIS works both ways for the sake of the story. Once again your just being bias and only considering the advantages/disadvantages of one side. Where is the consideration for
> 
> ...


Yeah again winning the fight and being stronger is not always the case due to other factors and there are plenty of examples like oden vs. Kaido etc. 

How is that PIS? She can instantly recover and they only got her in that state by playing dead and hitting her with their strongest attacks from the back.

BM was getting hit by law on the rooftop, she also used up even more of her soul to create a brand new homie which decreases her overall healing/giantification capabilities. Oh and zeus wasn't consumed which means more soul power being wasted and therefore could not be used. Zeus is her own soul which is far greater than any fodder soul. 

and let's not forget that she got hit by a goddamn nukes on her way down. 

This is all without the blatant back stabbing and the crews begging them to spare the duo.

 

This is proof that law and kid are stronger lmaoooo. The winner title means a legitimate victory and proof of superior battle prowess  lmao dude the reach on this is beyond ridiculous

Reactions: Like 2


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## trance (Apr 3, 2022)

kaido would've taken everything BM took and still kept going


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## Turrin (Apr 3, 2022)

arv993 said:


> Yeah again winning the fight and being stronger is not always the case due to other factors and there are plenty of examples like oden vs. Kaido etc.
> 
> How is that PIS? She can instantly recover and they only got her in that state by playing dead and hitting her with their strongest attacks from the back.
> 
> ...


1) Cool that doesn’t change the fact that Kid and Law won that fight as we are told by the characters in the story and the narrator box. You can say under different circumstances BM could have also won, which is for sure the case because Law and Kidd Aren’t so massively stronger then BM that she would be never able to win any fights out of 100 under different contexts. Nor is anyone arguing that. With that said Law and Kidd win much more fights then BM under a variety of contexts as they are smarter and utilizes their ability better then her.

2) BM can not instantly recover she needs to draw out her own soul and eat it; or Apply it to her wounds like Medical Ninjutsu. Law and Kidd could have easily attacked BM during this process just as easily as BM could have attacked Law and Kidd more aggressively as well

3) Are you actually going to compare BM getting hit like one time by Law on the roof top to Law being hit by Kaidou. Please stop man


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## arv993 (Apr 3, 2022)

Turrin said:


> 1) Cool that doesn’t change the fact that Kid and Law won that fight as we are told by the characters in the story and the narrator box. You can say under different circumstances BM could have also won, which is for sure the case because Law and Kidd Aren’t so massively stronger then BM that she would be never able to win any fights out of 100 under different contexts. Nor is anyone arguing that. With that said Law and Kidd win much more fights then BM under a variety of contexts as they are smarter and utilizes their ability better then her.
> 
> 2) BM can not instantly recover she needs to draw out her own soul and eat it; or Apply it to her wounds like Medical Ninjutsu. Law and Kidd could have easily attacked BM during this process just as easily as BM could have attacked Law and Kidd more aggressively as well
> 
> 3) Are you actually going to compare BM getting hit like one time by Law on the roof top to Law being hit by Kaidou. Please stop man


 ok nice backtracking and second no they do not. Smarter doesn't equate to winning. And all the talk about the narrator box is useless since they had massive advantages and pure luck in their favor.

She instantly healed herself when she was injured and she was low on soul power because of zeus running around and the creation of hera. That is a fact. These are all nerfs. It's like going to battle with 3/4 of your energy.

also they BFred her and the nukes did a lot of damage that's more impactful than anything law or kid took from kaido.

Law barely participated in the fight and took on a non-direct attack from kaido. Luffy and zoro took most of the damage.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Turrin (Apr 3, 2022)

arv993 said:


> ok nice backtracking and second no they do not. Smarter doesn't equate to winning. And all the talk about the narrator box is useless since they had massive advantages and pure luck in their favor.
> 
> She instantly healed herself when she was injured and she was low on soul power because of zeus running around and the creation of hera. That is a fact. These are all nerfs. It's like going to battle with 3/4 of your energy.
> 
> ...


I said they won citing what the manga says. You said they didn’t and the narrator was wrong; and now are saying well they did, but only due to circumstance. You’re the only one back tracking.
—-
If two fighters are around the same level the more intelligent one is likely to win. That’s why Law had BM beat on the roof top too, through BFR into the ocean; if not for Kaidou saving her. Twice Law’s plans have beaten BM.
—-
Stop lying, the heal process takes place over multiple panels that’s not “instant”.
—-
Please prove with actual scaling that the Bomb does more damage then CoC Thunder Baguas and that BM used up as much stamina as Law/Kidd did, when Stamina was never Stated to be an issue for her and she had other fodder souls to draw from; while it was stated to be an issue for Law/Kidd.


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## arv993 (Apr 3, 2022)

Turrin said:


> I said they won citing what the manga says. You said they didn’t and the narrator was wrong; and now are saying well they did, but only due to circumstance. You’re the only one back tracking.
> —-
> If two fighters are around the same level the more intelligent one is likely to win. That’s why Law had BM beat on the roof top too, through BFR into the ocean; if not for Kaidou saving her. Twice Law’s plans have beaten BM.
> —-
> ...


I never said they didn't win. I said they aren't stronger; there's a difference.

Lol law beat BM in the rooftop? 


That was 3 v 1 and a BFR.

it was instant. She healed with a simple command.


She created a brand new homie dude. She used her own soul and didn't even absorb the soul that she was replacing. That's a lot of soul power considering she used her own soul power later for a boost and said the fodders’ souls were worthless. Losing soul power was an issue for her, we saw it with her skirmish with Marco. She wasn't fighting with her full power. Don't even get me started with the insane PIs writing where she used no Adcoc attacks when she used some on Page 1.

The bombs scale was island level that's above any simple bagua, this is not even debatable. Not to mention the major freebie hits law and kid got it when big mom spared them. 

Kidd threw around metal and law tanked a half-assed bagua that didn't even put down a zoro that took hakai.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Turrin (Apr 4, 2022)

arv993 said:


> I never said they didn't win. I said they aren't stronger; there's a difference.
> 
> Lol law beat BM in the rooftop?
> 
> ...


I stopped at it was instant. If your going to lie there is no point in continuing. Your just trolling


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## Amatérasu’s Son (Apr 4, 2022)

Turrin said:


> I mean she amped herself with her Soul after that first SW. So I would not think she has much lasting damage from it.


A fair point.




Turrin said:


> But even assuming she did you would still be claiming 2 SW >>> 60 CoC Attacks from Luffy including G5 CoC. Why would Law’s awakening be that much stronger then Luffy’s Awakening and CoC.
> —-
> Ether way I don’t believe Law in that fight is doing more damage to Doffy then G4 did. And that’s a G4 Pre-Ryou and CoC. And now your telling me Law’s Awakening >>> G5 + CoC


I didn't say anything, I'm just asking questions to get a better understanding of your position.

That said, Law's Devil Fruit is the definition of Haxx, though it isn't as flashy it's still broken. Like the Gomu-Hito:Nika it's also basically a reality warper. But of greater strength than Gear Fifth with Luffy's Fully skill tree'd out Buso and Haoshoku Haki? No.


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## Turrin (Apr 4, 2022)

Amatérasu’s Son said:


> A fair point.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah so if it’s not of greater strength then G4 and Kaidou been tanking tons of G4 hits and even Kong over Kong without Broken bones then Kaidou is simply more durable then BM by quite a bit.


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## Amatérasu’s Son (Apr 4, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Yeah so if it’s not of greater strength then G4 and Kaidou been tanking tons of G4 hits and even Kong over Kong without Broken bones then Kaidou is simply more durable then BM by quite a bit.


Yep. She's an iron balloon, but he seems to be iron all the way through. Gamma Knife barely fazed him, like instead of spreading through his body it was localized like a bee sting on someone who isn't allergic.

Reactions: Winner 1 | GODA 1


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