# Yin Seal/Byakugo Seal Sakura vs Calorie Control Choji



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 2, 2013)

Starting Distance: 40 Meters
Battlefield: Naruto and Bee vs Tobi and his Six Paths
Restrictions: None
Knowledge: Rep for both

Who wins?


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## tanman (Jun 2, 2013)

This is a fight where calcs would be very useful.


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## Mithos (Jun 2, 2013)

Sakura was able to move fast enough to hit the Juubi clone she sent flying before it stopped - that's very impressive. Along with her evasive skills as a medic ninja, I see her landing the first attack. 

Sakura wins.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Jun 2, 2013)

Two characters with kage level physical strength but not quite kage level. The outcomes really depends on one's interpretation. For me sakura might as well be a glass cannon when it comes to here taking choji's blows and choji cannot take sakura's blows either(maybe in his multi-size state). But in his multi size state he would need help hitting such a small target accurately(like he needed help with asuma).

I mean since sakura seems more casual(choji needs BM multi size to match her i believe) then she will be able to move around and get more big shots off than choji could.

I think sakura takes this convincingly.


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## wooly Eullerex (Jun 2, 2013)

choji wins w/ human-size CC mode~butterfly-bullet-bombing ends it.

He can airwalk, is somewhat faster, & _much_ better at taijutsu.

you could argue Sakura winning normally vs IC Choji, but if he starts in CC its pretty much decided.


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## ueharakk (Jun 2, 2013)

Sakura is arguably a much more compact chouji which is very advantageous.  If her punches do as much damage as chouji's punch, yet have a much smaller point of contact, her punches are going to be much more effective at damaging him than his are to her. 

BM Chouji was ultimately defeated by one GM shockwave which even his father survived, so a direct hit from her would most likely cripple him.  Like Mato-san said, sakura's speed was impressive, and it's implied chouji sort of needed assistance to land a BM punch against someone as fast as Asuma.

He's basically a big target while she's only a fast human-sized target with just as much or more firepower than him.  Sakura should win.


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## Mithos (Jun 2, 2013)

diadora Lotto said:


> Hes  _much_ better at taijutsu.



What is this based on?


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## PDQ (Jun 3, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> Sakura is arguably a much more compact chouji which is very advantageous.  If her punches do as much damage as chouji's punch, yet have a much smaller point of contact, her punches are going to be much more effective at damaging him than his are to her.
> 
> BM Chouji was ultimately defeated by one GM shockwave which even his father survived, so a direct hit from her would most likely cripple him.  Like Mato-san said, sakura's speed was impressive, and it's implied chouji sort of needed assistance to land a BM punch against someone as fast as Asuma.
> 
> He's basically a big target while she's only a fast human-sized target with just as much or more firepower than him.  Sakura should win.



Chouji doesn't need to be in multisize to do a ridiculous amount of damage.  We've seen even as a chuunin, with much less chakra behind his punches, his strength is off the charts in his mini size.  The only two differences growing makes is
1.  Greater surface area so it's harder for him to miss
2.  Greater mass so his hits do even more damage

It's not even that Chouji was defeated by Gedo Mazo, he just retreated after realizing his punches couldn't do anything and it'd be a waste to use more energy until they had a plan.

His speed also increases in butterfly mode(as seen by his ability to dodge Jiroubou's punch from inches away to appearing yards away from him)

This would be close.  Neither has the durability to withstand a blow from the other so it's sudden death, whoever strikes first wins.  Sakura's dodging would be hard pressed against the size of Chouji's fists.  Chouji growing his whole body would make him too big a target.


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## Guybot2 (Jun 4, 2013)

If sakura did learned everything tsunade taught her.. 

She dont have to punch choji right away..  she can focus her legs to blitz choji then hit him lightly to paralyze him so choji wont get a wiggly room.. then she can go for the Kill with a punch.. 

GG 

dont assume the only thing sakura can do is heal and punch.. im sure she can do what tsunade can do.. who know..


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## Rokudaime Sennin (Jun 4, 2013)

Does Sakura have sleep bombs and poisoned kunai for this fight?


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## Bonly (Jun 4, 2013)

PDQ said:


> This would be close.  Neither has the durability to withstand a blow from the other so it's sudden death, whoever strikes first wins.



Pretty much this in a nutshell.


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## Kind of a big deal (Jun 4, 2013)

Of course Sakura's punch would be a concentrated point, but it should be noted that Gedo Mazo's shockwave did at least as much aoe damage as Sakura's punch, and Chouji took that in the face, and was not damaged. I'm not so sure she automatically 1 hit KO's Chouji.

IF the first punch kills and we go by that, Chouji should win, he has more range, he could strike before Sakura can. If she plans on releasing her chakra to make a monster punch, it has to be at a specific moment when she anticipates to hit Chouji. Chouji can hit her before she can hit him.

If Chouji was smart, he would just fly a bit untill Sakura's seal wears off. We have seen him be in Butterfly mode from the afternoon untill nightfall. That's hours. I can already tell you guys that Sakura will not have her seal for that long.


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## FlamingRain (Jun 4, 2013)

Kind of a big deal said:


> If Chouji was smart, he would just fly a bit untill Sakura's seal wears off. We have seen him be in Butterfly mode from the afternoon untill nightfall. That's hours. I can already tell you guys that Sakura will not have her seal for that long.



Is Choji smart? 

Sakura has to actually be using the chakra in the seal for it to wear off.

And she won't be doing that if Choji's flying around out of her reach.

So I'm not sure how smart that really is, as he'd be the only one wasting chakra by flying and he'd have to land eventually. . .


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## LostSelf (Jun 4, 2013)

Calorie Control Chouji is his giant form? Or the form he used against Jirobo staying in his own size?


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## Nikushimi (Jun 6, 2013)

Chouji obliterates her with one punch.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 6, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> Chouji obliterates her with one punch.


I don't think he can hit her, and she should be able to regen.


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## Mithos (Jun 6, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> Sakura obliterates him with one punch.



Fixed for accuracy


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## Turrin (Jun 6, 2013)

Choji multizes which makes him an easy target for Sakura who smashy smashy's him to oblivion. Sakura wins with ease.


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## Nikushimi (Jun 6, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> I don't think he can hit her,



If he was capable of keeping up with Edo Asuma for a short while and catching both Edo Kakuzu and Edo Hizashi at the same time, I don't think hitting Sakura will be a problem.



> and she should be able to regen.



If her Jutsu is anything like Tsunade's, she has to activate it first.

But we don't have any feats for that yet, so it's still too early to make that call.

Also, whether or not there would be anything left to regenerate from in the first place is...debatable.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 6, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> If he was capable of keeping up with Edo Asuma for a short while and catching both Edo Kakuzu and Edo Hizashi at the same time, I don't think hitting Sakura will be a problem.


Sakura specializes in evasion, and guess what? To hit Asuma, Kakuzu, and Hizashi, Choji had _help_ all those times. Against Asuma? He had Ino and Shikamaru backing him up. Against Kakuzu, he had Darui, Izumo, and Kotetsu backing him up. Against Hizashi, he had Hiashi backing him up.

Hell, Asuma had to be corralled by Kage Nui no Jutsu just for Choji to even hit him.


> If her Jutsu is anything like Tsunade's, she has to activate it first.
> 
> But we don't have any feats for that yet, so it's still too early to make that call.
> 
> Also, whether or not there would be anything left to regenerate from in the first place is...debatable.


Why wouldn't she have the same level of regen as Tsunade? Her seal is superior to the Infuin.

Not to mention 'anything left'? Choji's punches don't disintegrate the target. 

From feats, Choji really will have a hard time hitting Sakura. She's too agile for him, has too good evasive feats (dodging an all around attack from Sasori without help from Chiyo) and she can hit him even harder than he can hit her-and she can just regenerate.


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## Rocky (Jun 6, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> Also, whether or not there would be anything left to regenerate from in the first place is...debatable.




Choji does not vaporize his opponents with his punches. How durable do you think Asuma is?


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## Nikushimi (Jun 6, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Choji does not vaporize his opponents with his punches. How durable do you think Asuma is?



A lot more durable than Sakura, I'd say that.

Though Chouji also hit him with a standard punch and not a chakra-charged Choudan Bakugeki, which I'm pretty sure would've turned Edo Asuma into ashy paste.



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Sakura specializes in evasion,



Which means dick-all if her opponent is the size of a mountain and she's not fast enough to cross that kind of distance in time to evade.



> and guess what? To hit Asuma, Kakuzu, and Hizashi, Choji had _help_ all those times. Against Asuma? He had Ino and Shikamaru backing him up.



Ino controlled Chouji's body and had him fending off Edo Asuma, albeit just that.



> Against Kakuzu, he had Darui, Izumo, and Kotetsu backing him up. Against Hizashi, he had Hiashi backing him up.



I'd be a lot less impressed if he had only gotten one or the other.

But Chouji got them both, and it's not like any of that "help" has shown anything resembling the capability of restraining those guys (or at least Kakuzu).



> Hell, Asuma had to be corralled by Kage Nui no Jutsu just for Choji to even hit him.



Asuma is also up there with guys like Kimimaro, Deidara, Kakashi, and Sasuke in the speed department, so he's quite a bit outside any sort of comparison with Sakura.



> Why wouldn't she have the same level of regen as Tsunade? Her seal is superior to the Infuin.



Maybe her seal is, but that doesn't say anything about her Jutsu. I would feel more comfortable waiting until we actually see her use Byakugou or Souzou Saisei, as there are still any number of contingencies and limitations Kishimoto could throw our way.

Not saying it'll happen like that, but better to err on the side of caution. We don't lose anything by waiting to see.



> Not to mention 'anything left'? Choji's punches don't disintegrate the target.



Not his standard punch, no, but I'm willing to bet Choudan Bakugeki is a different story.



> From feats, Choji really will have a hard time hitting Sakura. She's too agile for him, has too good evasive feats (dodging an all around attack from Sasori without help from Chiyo)



Chouji's AoE is quite a bit bigger than any attack Sasori threw at her.



> and she can hit him even harder than he can hit her



Well...



No.



> -and she can just regenerate.



Again, we don't have feats for that yet. Come back and tell me about her regenerative feats when we get them.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 6, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> A lot more durable than Sakura, I'd say that.
> 
> Though Chouji also hit him with a standard punch and not a chakra-charged Choudan Bakugeki, which I'm pretty sure would've turned Edo Asuma into ashy paste.


Sakura survived a point blank explosive tag without any damage. When has Asuma gotten any feat like that?




> Which means dick-all if her opponent is the size of a mountain and she's not fast enough to cross that kind of distance in time to evade.


Sakura is a bit faster than Choji, becoming that big sacrifices his speed. He just becomes a HUGE target. Sakura can literally dance around him all day from her speed and evasion feats.




> Ino controlled Chouji's body and had him fending off Edo Asuma, albeit just that.


And that's different from the giant form which is monumentally slower.




> I'd be a lot less impressed if he had only gotten one or the other.
> 
> But Chouji got them both, and it's not like any of that "help" has shown anything resembling the capability of restraining those guys (or at least Kakuzu).


You do know its highly probable that Choji's allies had neutralized Kakuzu and Hizashi (who has next to no speed feats) and Choji just grabbed them to hold them down for sealing, right? After they had already been dealt with.




> Asuma is also up there with guys like Kimimaro, Deidara, Kakashi, and Sasuke in the speed department, so he's quite a bit outside any sort of comparison with Sakura.


Asuma got tagged by slower fighters though. Sakura got a bit of a speed increase. And the fact remains: to hit Asuma, Choji had to have help even in his giant form.

You're overestimating him and underestimating Sakura greatly.


> Maybe her seal is, but that doesn't say anything about her Jutsu. I would feel more comfortable waiting until we actually see her use Byakugou or Souzou Saisei, as there are still any number of contingencies and limitations Kishimoto could throw our way.
> 
> Not saying it'll happen like that, but better to err on the side of caution. We don't lose anything by waiting to see.


Stronger seal, fighting on the battlefield instead of staying in the background, Sakura is fitting all the requirements for Byakugo.

The manga almost made it abundantly clear she has it.


> Not his standard punch, no, but I'm willing to bet Choudan Bakugeki is a different story.


The same giant fist that struck Asuma that didn't turn him into mush and yet you claim it'll disintegrate Sakura?




> Chouji's AoE is quite a bit bigger than any attack Sasori threw at her.


Choji is a bit slower than Sakura and she can comfortably avoid him.




> Well...
> 
> 
> 
> No.


Show some of Choji's speed feats that compare to Sakura's then. 

Also show a strength feat from Choji that comes anywhere NEAR this one from Sakura.


> Again, we don't have feats for that yet. Come back and tell me about her regenerative feats when we get them.


The manga makes it abundantly clear Sakura can do it.

Hell, this chapter had her summoning a boss Slug, I don't think Choji has much of a chance now again.

Think about it, the manga lays out that the Ino-Shika-Cho formation is the most effective since the Nara or Yamanaka pins the nimbler target down for the Akimichi to hit. Why wouldn't that fit for Choji, who has shown to be slow?


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## Lurko (Jun 7, 2013)

I'm rolling with chougi.


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## Nikushimi (Jun 7, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Asuma was pretty much below Hidan in their confrontation, he couldn't land a hit on him at all without Shikamaru's support. So you can't say they are pretty even physically either.



That has absolutely fuck-all to do with their durability, so yes I can.

In any case, Asuma is both faster and stronger than Hidan; 4.5 and 4.5 compared to 3.5 and 4, respectively. So yes, they are physically comparable, with Asuma probably having the edge in durability if by nothing else than the virtue of his probable fucking muscle density.



> So Asuma, because he's 32 is more durable than Naruto or Sasuke due to his age?



Not taking into account chakra-augmentations like the Kyuubi cloak and Susano'o...yeah, actually.



> And Sakura is well above Asuma now from her current feats too.



Overall or just in a specific area?

Because unless Sakura can regenerate a missing head with Byakugou, Asuma still has her beat.



> The simple fact that Sakura has a feat, which Asuma doesn't means she's more durable too.



...Says who? Feats only serve as demonstrations of capability; the absence of a feat is not the absence of capability.



> That's the trade off. Choji's sheer size sacrifices his speed. Is why the Nara and Yamanaka Clan members ALWAYS back up the Akimichi member.



Says who? Show me in the manga where this is explained or demonstrated. I don't remember Chouji's size increase ever sacrificing his speed.



> Choji's feats in his size shows he's very, very slow there too.



Such as...?



> Same with Choza.



Chouza reacted to fucking Kinkaku, and he's not a guy with a lot of feats to begin with, speed or otherwise.



> Choji's feats, the general trade off of sheer size and speed. Unlike the boss summons or Biju, Akimichi members slow down when they increase in size due to the sheer mass. Choji's feats show that handily.



Great, then you'll have no trouble pointing them out.



> Darui has a counter for most of Kakuzu's elements, who he already sent out to fight. Izumo and Kotetsu got the jump on him when he was Domu-less. Darui has Raiton which makes Domu useless.



There are still four other hearts at Kakuzu's disposal, not even counting the Doton one. Darui's good, but Izumo and Kotetsu aren't exactly champions, and Darui doesn't have the offensive power to put Kakuzu down short of dismantling him with a Raiton blade. But good luck getting close enough to do that and good luck holding him still for Chouji to just reach over and grab before he can react.



> Choji had help either way to defeat Kakuzu, he didn't do it alone.



Realistically, what the fuck could Kakuzu do to Chouji except piss him off until he is eventually grabbed and restrained just like we saw, anyway? He doesn't have the offensive power to put Chouji down and the speed difference is not so huge that evasion can be relied on indefinitely without a full retreat.

Yes, Chouji had help, probably. Did he need it? I doubt it; he would've gotten a hold of Kakuzu one way or another.



> Asuma has no feats that compare to Sakura's here. Punching a target with the full force of her strength, keeping pace with it, intercepting then smashing it after.
> 
> What is Asuma's best speed feat anyway? He was having trouble hitting a slower fighter like Hidan when he was on his own too.



Sakura's feat there can't even be measured.

And Asuma has a 4.5 in speed, so all you need to do is take a look at speed feats for anybody in the manga with that rating and you've got a ballpark estimate.



> You kind of are though.



You are openly claiming that Sakura is faster than Asuma despite the latter having a solid 1.5 tier lead on her in the speed category. You might want to reserve judgment until you've got something a little more concrete than "she caught up to the fodder enemy she sent flying with her own punch."



> There is no reason to believe she can't use them. She completed a seal Shizune couldn't, has fit all the requirements that allow a medical ninja to enter direct combat.



Great.

Now show me feats of what her Byakugou can do and what limitations she does or doesn't face and we'll talk about it.



> Weren't you saying to power scale earlier with Asuma compared to Sakura?



We can't powerscale Byakugou. Speed, durability, strength... These things are universally applicable. They're linear- you either have more or less, and there are known quantities to compare with and known rules to compare them by. What can we powerscale Sakura's unseen Byakugou with? Tsunade's? There is no way to do that because we have no understanding of the mechanism behind it or Sakura's qualifications for the Jutsu relative to Tsunade's; you would have to just assume she is capable of doing what Tsunade is doing, which is not powerscaling but baseless feat transference. Now, hypothetically, if we say Byakugou is a function of chakra capacity and chakra control and we establish that Sakura is equal to Tsunade in both respects, then yes, your case that she is capable of the same Byakugou feats as Tsunade would be completely valid. However, because we don't have...any of that...it's entirely unknowable.

I'm only telling you to wait until we have feats for Sakura before we discuss her capabilities with a Jutsu she hasn't shown yet. That's not exactly demanding anything out of the ordinary.



> You mean the technique that left a CORPSE with Jirobu?



Jirobou, the guy who is physically a contender with Tsunade for the "strongest non-Bijuu friend on the face of the planet" title, who was also in the durability-augmenting second stage of the Juin, yes. That Jirobou was killed instantly with a single punch *to the torso*. By *pre-skip, 1.5 tiers weaker, normal-sized* Butterfly Chouji.



> Oh, and how wasn't it? Choji charged chakra to his fist in the exact same way, he was just in his giant form.



Hmm, it appears I was mistaken. 

Asuma must be pretty durable, then.



> Using the same speed she demonstrated here.



This doesn't tell us anything relative to Chouji's speed. This just tells us Sakura can catch up to an enemy she punched while it's still deccelerating. We have no idea how fast the enemy was travelling when she caught up to it (or when she sent it flying, for that matter), thus no way of determining what Sakura's speed was when she jumped over it. It's unquantifiable.



> Looking over his feats, he is far slower than Sakura.



For someone who never changes his mind about anything, you sure flip-flopped on that one suddenly.



> If Sakura or Tsunade did the same thing, there would be similar effects. And dude, that really isn't that impressive compared to Sakura or Tsunade's feats with their strength.



I don't remember Tsunade or Sakura blowing grown men off their feet from literally hundreds of meters away with their strikes.



> Again...you were saying to power scale earlier. Sakura gets a seal that allows both techniques, can go by the rules Tsunade set, and take direct combat.



Which gives us no quantifiable precedent and therefore no basis for powerscaling.

This is actually really simple to understand. If we had some means of comparing Sakura's Byakugou compatibility with Tsunade's, then yes, we could rely on powerscaling. But we don't, so...we can't. Simply saying "she's capable of the Jutsu" doesn't tell us anything about how capable she is.

And there are still the unknowns like "What if Kishi attaches a special condition?" or "What if Sakura uses an imperfect version?" or something like that.

The point is, *wait until we have confirmation*. Don't be impatient.



> This thread was made before Sakura had the slug contract revealed.



Chouji eats it.

Capture difficulty level: 3.



> Not only that, its still a good fight.



Good, then you have no problem with Chouji winning.



> Sakura got a impressive speed feat last chapter,



Not really.



> and she's keeping up with Naruto and Sasuke. So...yeah.



...Who's keeping score?


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jun 7, 2013)

Chouji wins. He easily blocks Sakura's punches and kills her with a punch. We don't know for how long Sakura can hold Byakugo, but I doubt she can outlast Chouji's butterfly state.


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## LostSelf (Jun 8, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Chouji wins. He easily blocks Sakura's punches and kills her with a punch. We don't know for how long Sakura can hold Byakugo, but I doubt she can outlast Chouji's butterfly state.



She hasn't shown Byakugo.


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## Naiad (Jun 8, 2013)

why do ppl think she has byakugo? she never used it!


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 8, 2013)

Naiad said:


> why do ppl think she has byakugo? she never used it!


Its not a stretch to claim she possesses it, Naiad. She has a stronger seal than Infuin, the Byakugo no In, is actively fighting on the battlefield (Tsunade's own rules for Medical Ninja are: Rule #1: Medical Ninja shall never give up on treating their teammates as long as they still draw breath. Rule #2: *Medical Ninja are not allowed to engage in battle!* Rule #3: Medical Ninjas shall be the last one to die on the team! Rule #4: Only those who have mastered Byakugo, the mitotic regeneration ninjutsu...are allowed to break all three rules!)


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