# Who's the next Batman villain? (Sequel - July 20, 2012)



## John Carter of Mars (Jul 8, 2010)

I know this is still too early to say but I'm going for the dive into the pool of questions anyways. Who would the next Batman villain be? After the appearance and early death of *Harvey Dent / Two face *we can rule him out as a possibility (as well as the *Joker*, unless Nolan's lost his marbles). 



> _Empire_ asked whether the villain could be a returning (and  recast) Joker. "No," said Nolan resisting to elaborate, "I just don't  feel comfortable about it."


The *Joker *is out... 

Here's a list of possibles - nothing to be confirmed yet anyways.


*Mr. Freeze* - origins will have to be super condensed though lol. Unless Nolan wants to rearrange or totally alter the story of it.
*Mr. Penguin *- Least likely, but still could serve as a mafia king like Black Mask.
*Black Mask* - would really look forward to this crime lord to appear in an actual live action Batman movie, since he hasn't been appearing in any of the previous ones.
*Poison Ivy* - Nolan's been known for using as little CGI as possible. And he likes to keep the sense of realism in his movies (even the superhero ones), so I don't think this will fly too well.
*
Superman Movie (Nolan's project) will also be released around the same date...*
This is also a little something else. Nolan has been working on a Superman movie as well. He pitched or one of his screen writers pitched an idea to him, and he really liked it. So him, his brother, and one of the screenwriters they have been working with for a long while have agreed in addressing that Superman will be one of their works that they will be excited about . Woot. I don't think it will dissapoint.


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## Koi (Jul 8, 2010)

Hasn't Nolan stated he doesn't want to use some of the more well-known villains?  (Mr. Freeze, Poison Ivy, etc?)

Personally I'm hoping for Hush.  I think that could be done really well.


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## Chee (Jul 8, 2010)

Nolan has flat out said that Mr. Freeze will not happen.

My guess is on Riddler, Black Mask, Penguin, Janice Porter, or Catwoman.

Usually Nolan goes with three villains, both BB and TDK had that.


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## John Carter of Mars (Jul 8, 2010)

Chee said:


> Nolan has flat out said that Mr. Freeze will not happen.
> 
> My guess is on Riddler, Black Mask, Penguin, Janice Porter, or Catwoman.
> 
> Usually Nolan goes with three villains, both BB and TDK had that.



three villains? 
Batman begins...  scarecrow, Ra's al Ghul, and the mob guy? 
The dark knight... scarecrow (very brief cameo), Joker, and Harvey Dent / Two face... ?? including the mob guy - forgot his name... but was he adapted from the comics?


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## Chee (Jul 8, 2010)

Batman Begins had The Scarecrow, Ra's, and the mob.
The Dark Knight had The Joker, Harvey Dent/Two-Face and the mob.

I'm guessing that the mob will still be present in the third one. So that leaves two other baddies.

I'm also guessing that those two baddies have to be somewhat compatible together to an overall theme in the movie.

Both Ra's and Scarecrow dealt with fear.
Both Joker and Harvey Dent/Two-Face dealt with anarchy and disorder.


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## John Carter of Mars (Jul 8, 2010)

Chee said:


> Batman Begins had The Scarecrow, Ra's, and the mob.
> The Dark Knight had The Joker, Harvey Dent/Two-Face and the mob.
> 
> I'm guessing that the mob will still be present in the third one. So that leaves two other baddies.
> ...



Interesting that you notice those things. I knew those themes were roughly touched upon throughout the movie. 
That's going to be a little difficult for Nolan to approach...

I bet it will have a lot to do with chasing down Batman for committing those crimes he would carry the responsibility of in  Harvey's behalf...


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## Chee (Jul 8, 2010)

Yea, I know that the cops will be after him, that's why I think the Riddler and Janice Porter would be good choices. 

Riddler could be after Batman's identity while Janice Porter takes up the new DA spot forcing a full-on man hunt for the Batman.

Black Mask or Penguin could take the mob position now that the two major mob families have been pushed to the edge in TDK.

I could be totally off the charts, but whatever. I like speculating. Passes the time.


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## John Carter of Mars (Jul 8, 2010)

Same here 

Still questionable - I could totally see Black Mask replacing the mob with his own underlings. 
Lol, I had to *google *Janice Porter to see what role she played in the DC universe. How ignorant of me. Interesting... she despises Batman's motives and Commissioner Gordon tries to sway her opinion. 
Unfortunately Gordon will feign the pursuit and capture of Batman since he and his son knows where the truth really lies. Wow this sounds good. Nolan could really use this as direct source material, a little rearranging to do of course though... 
I really don't like the goofy looking villains (i.e. Riddler and Penguin) though so hopefully they'll be out >_>


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## Chee (Jul 8, 2010)

I wonder if one of the themes in Batman 3 will be isolation. Bruce Wayne is in a pretty lonely spot now. 

And we need a bad guy that will cause lots of explosions and fighting. That stuff is mighty important.


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## John Carter of Mars (Jul 8, 2010)

Chee said:


> I wonder if one of the themes in Batman 3 will be isolation. Bruce Wayne is in a pretty lonely spot now.
> 
> And we need a bad guy that will cause lots of explosions and fighting. That stuff is mighty important.



Perhaps. Lol. Batman isolated? Wasn't he always a lone wolf - one man wolf pack ? :amazed He prefers it that way doesn't he. This will give him more of an excuse however lol. 

Explosions & fighting - the very raw substance and essence of the story  j/k. Pretty sure Nolan wont leave us fans waiting


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## Graham Aker (Jul 8, 2010)

There'll be an announcement this coming Comic-Con, yeah?


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## Chee (Jul 8, 2010)

Yea, true. But what I mean is that his bestfriend/lover is dead, Lucius is on the border of quitting, and Gordon now has to chase after him. It's like everyone besides Alfred is "gone". I think it could be a good theme to focus on.



> There'll be an announcement this coming Comic-Con, yeah?



There better be. The script is practically done.


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## -Dargor- (Jul 8, 2010)

Penguin is out imo, there's just no way he'd fit in thecurrent settings of nolan's batman.

Ivy or Black Mask are good, Freeze would probably be feasable.

I'd like to see Bane scrapping Batman's back like it happened in the fall of the dark knight, but I doubt it'd fit in the nolanverse.

Maybe a mix of Robin/Red Hood, since you know, batman's getting lonely, someone he could relate to, but with an evil twist at the end of the tunnel.

I don't think an evil robin/nightwing would be past Nolan.


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## Roy (Jul 8, 2010)

Darker (No, not Eddie Murphy ), eviler, even more fucked up Riddler.


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## Chee (Jul 8, 2010)

Roy said:


> Darker (No, not Eddie Murphy ), eviler, even more fucked up Riddler.



Then he'd be Joker II.


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## Roy (Jul 8, 2010)

Not really. Nolan's Batman world is already a dark place. I'm just saying I wanna see him all crazy like and non-cartoonish with gay ass costume.


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## Chee (Jul 8, 2010)

Oh yea, totally. Realistic.

The costume is totally out.

And if Catwoman was ever to be done in Nolanverse, say bye-bye to the high heels and leather.


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## In Brightest Day! (Jul 8, 2010)

Hhhmm. What about Lady Shiva? I'd love to see her in Nolanverse.


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## Yoshi-Paperfold (Jul 8, 2010)

Mr. Freeze and Poison Ivy wouldn't mesh with the nolanverse. Bane could work, I suppose. I never cared for bane, and I could care less that he put Batman out of commission for long period of time. He's bland. 

Janice has to be in the third installment.



			
				-Dargor- said:
			
		

> Penguin is out imo, there's just no way he'd fit in thecurrent settings of nolan's batman.



Edit: Penguin would bring credibility to gotham's organized crime, which has been nothing but fodder in the first two installments. In TDK the crime bosses were basically Joker's henchmen.


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## Judas (Jul 8, 2010)

Riddler and Janice Porter would work out nicely.



Who's the dude in a cat suit? And why are his man-boobs so big?


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## Yoshi-Paperfold (Jul 8, 2010)

Figured I wasn't the only one who thought it was a dude in the cat suit.


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## ethereal (Jul 8, 2010)

AeroBlitz1316 said:


> Who's the dude in a cat suit? And why are his man-boobs so big?


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## Yoshi-Paperfold (Jul 8, 2010)

She looks familiar.

edit: She starred in public enemies.


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## Vault (Jul 8, 2010)

Chee said:


> Yea, true. But what I mean is that his bestfriend/lover is dead, Lucius is on the border of quitting, and Gordon now has to chase after him. It's like everyone besides Alfred is "gone". I think it could be a good theme to focus on.
> 
> 
> 
> There better be. The script is practically done.



Lucius wont quit didnt you see the grin after he typed in his name and destroyed that machine. He didnt want that machine there and Bats got rid of it, why should he quit?


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## -Dargor- (Jul 8, 2010)

Yoshi-Paperfold said:


> Edit: Penguin would bring credibility to gotham's organized crime, which has been nothing but fodder in the first two installments. In TDK the crime bosses were basically Joker's henchmen.


Penguin is a mutant, genetic abberation and ridiculously silly character, there's no way he'd fit in the Nolanverse.





Aw crap, I'm so sick of catwoman I could puke, especially this non-sexy kind.

Halle Berry was just the last drop for me, after that I just stopped liking the character. I hope the image was fan made


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## CrazyMoronX (Jul 8, 2010)

A 3D Joker that cracks Internet meme jokes and has a Justin Beiber haircut.


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## Vault (Jul 8, 2010)

Seriously whats people's obsession with cat woman? I fucking hate the character.


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## Chee (Jul 8, 2010)

InBrightestDay said:


> Hhhmm. What about Lady Shiva? I'd love to see her in Nolanverse.



Yea, she could be done. She has ties to the League of Shadows (or whatever its called in the comic books) without having daddy issues like Talia al Ghul does.



> Lucius wont quit didnt you see the grin after he typed in his name and destroyed that machine. He didnt want that machine there and Bats got rid of it, why should he quit?



That's why I said on the border. :33



> Seriously whats people's obsession with cat woman? I fucking hate the character.



I totally agree. I hate her too.


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## mystictrunks (Jul 8, 2010)

Vault said:


> Seriously whats people's obsession with cat woman? I fucking hate the character.



She's a capable female villain with a long and interesting history that had lead to her being in several great stories over the years.

She's also pretty much just a dark-female mirror version of Batman some of the time.


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## Banhammer (Jul 8, 2010)

It's Jhonny Depp doing the riddler.


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## Chee (Jul 8, 2010)

Johnny Depp as the Riddler would be boring.


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## olaf (Jul 8, 2010)

your      mom


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## Z (Jul 8, 2010)

It's not Mr. Freeze.


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## Graham Aker (Jul 8, 2010)

Joaquin Phoenix as the Riddler. How about that? 

BTW is Ra's confirmed to be really dead?


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## Black Wraith (Jul 8, 2010)

Their can only be one Riddler and Jim Carrey could still do the role again.


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## Chee (Jul 8, 2010)

Black Wraith said:


> Their can only be one Riddler and Jim Carrey could still do the role again.



Yea, that's what everyone said about Jack Nicholson.


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## Judas (Jul 8, 2010)

Chee said:


> Yea, that's what everyone said about Jack Nicholson.



...And along came the late Heath Ledger.


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## R00t_Decision (Jul 8, 2010)

I think Poison Ivy should be the main villain.   I've never liked a lot of Batman's villains, they're too throwback. 

Poison Ivy would bring a fresh and new spin on the series, that's tried almost every villain once or twice.

Poison Ivy plots are always a lot of fun.


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## Chee (Jul 8, 2010)

R00t_Decision said:


> I think Poison Ivy should be the main villain.
> 
> I've never liked a lot of Batman's villains, they're too throwback.  That's why Batman is always riding coat tails with Super Man to kick some ass, Batman's villains are too ordinary.
> 
> Joker, Bane and a well done cat women I like, but recently I hate the variations of Cat women. I only like her because she's hot.



A lot of the Batman villains have supernatural powers.


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## R00t_Decision (Jul 8, 2010)

Chee said:


> A lot of the Batman villains have supernatural powers.


Of course, but with minimal impact. A lot of the villains are too lame or boring.


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## Chee (Jul 8, 2010)

R00t_Decision said:


> Of course, but with minimal impact.



I like the realistic villains anyways. Never really was into the supernatual episodes of 90s Batman.


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## Corran (Jul 8, 2010)

I think The Riddler could be a great villain with the route Nolan has taken the movies.


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## Ice Prince (Jul 8, 2010)

That's who it should be.


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## Chee (Jul 8, 2010)

Harley Quinn sucks as a character when she's by herself.


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## Gabe (Jul 8, 2010)

mr freeze, killer croc,  black mask, clayface or catwoman would be great villain for the third movie.


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## Yoshi-Paperfold (Jul 8, 2010)

-Dargor- said:


> Penguin is a mutant, genetic abberation and ridiculously silly character, there's no way he'd fit in the Nolanverse.



He's short, obese, and sometimes has flipper hands, which is a real birth defect (Phocomelia), but I wouldn't refer to him as a mutant. And Tim Burton's penguin doesn't count; he took many liberties with the character and made him a deformed psychopath that bled a greenish liquid from his nose. Far from the eloquent Penguin normally portrayed. You say he's a silly character, but the same could be said about most of batman's rogue gallery if the protrayal is substandard. 

The Penguin could fit in the nolanverse if he's portrayed as criminal genius with many connection in the underworld, who happens to have an affinity for birds. It would work. Just don't include the flipper hands, but keep the laugh.


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## Graham Aker (Jul 8, 2010)

I'm going to go with Ra's, with Talia this time as Batman's main squeeze, as the Joker would've called it.


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## Dr.Douchebag (Jul 9, 2010)

Chee said:


> I wonder if one of the themes in Batman 3 will be isolation. Bruce Wayne is in a pretty lonely spot now.
> 
> And we need a *bad guy that will cause lots of explosions* and fighting. That stuff is mighty important.



Michael Bay? 



Ice Prince said:


> That's who it should be.



They would need the Joker to introduce her story.

Although I am not opposed to a Poison Ivy, as Chee said he is lonely and hence would be more vulnerable :ho


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## Chee (Jul 9, 2010)

Dr.Douchebag said:


> Michael Bay?



The perfect villain right there.


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## Z (Jul 9, 2010)

I doubt he'll do Hush. Hush is a very recent villain in the comics and well most of the audience just wouldn't connect with him.


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## RAGING BONER (Jul 9, 2010)

Nolafied Riddler and Black mask; the heroine will be Selina Kyle.


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## Taleran (Jul 9, 2010)

Chee said:


> I like the realistic villains anyways. Never really was into the supernatual episodes of 90s Batman.



Begins hinged around a Ninja Master/City Destroyer whose plan involved a machine to EVAPORATE all the water in the city. And a Freeze Gun or a Junkie on Venom is too far out there. I'm sorry but that is where I cry foul.


Also


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## Chee (Jul 9, 2010)

Yea, a freeze gun and a junkie on venom is to far.



Z said:


> I doubt he'll do Hush. Hush is a very recent villain in the comics and well most of the audience just wouldn't connect with him.



Some troll on wikipedia said that James Woods was casted as Hush.


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## masamune1 (Jul 9, 2010)

-Dargor- said:


> *Penguin is a mutant, genetic abberation and ridiculously silly character,* there's no way he'd fit in the Nolanverse.



He's a short, fat, and slightly ugly, but he's a well mannered and sophisticated crime boss. He's nothing like the Tim Burton version and he's definitely not a mutant (he does'nt have flipper hands or anything like that).  He is basically a more interesting and polite Carmine Falcone from the first film, who happens to be an ornithologist and likes umbrellas. He's eccentric, but he's not a freak.

This is more like the actual Penguin, the Gentleman of Crime:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnjK719rheE[/YOUTUBE] 



> Aw crap, I'm so sick of catwoman I could puke, especially this non-sexy kind.
> 
> Halle Berry was just the last drop for me, after that I just stopped liking the character. *I hope the image was fan made*



Duh.


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## masamune1 (Jul 9, 2010)

Anyway, Hugo Strange all the way.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 9, 2010)

Im with Tal on Freeze.

He could be done without it coming off as campy or cheesy. With Ra's using something that could evaporate an entire cities water supply, a freeze gun isn't too far out of the picture.

Obviously it would have to be made to look a bit more bulky/compex, but i think it could be done.

But yea...fuck yea hugo strange.


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## Wesley (Jul 9, 2010)

Freeze won't work because he's kind of super.  



A friend of mine suggested using this as the basis for the next movie.  He thought that the Phantasm could be Rachel's sister, while I suggested that the Phantasm be Rachel herself.  Like she wasn't actually in that warehouse blew up, but in a different one.  The Joker is capable of performing non-lethal "jokes".

I only watched the Dark Knight once though, so I'm not too sure if there'd be too many plot holes or if Rachel could be a convincing villian.


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## masamune1 (Jul 9, 2010)

I don't think so.

It's not that the Phantasm is _bad_, its' just that there are many, many villains who are so much better, or at least better suited to this series where it is right now. Plus making a Rachel connection unermines the character, and is a bit of a rehash of Two-Face. 

Phantasm is anyway a DCAU exclusive character (more or less) and way too obscure to bring into film (Strange is too, but he would'nt chew scenes like the Phantasm). She also works better when theres a bit more history and depth to the Batman mythos, not when it's only on the third film at the start of his career. If she is going to be used at all- and she really should'nt-, it should be much later in the story.


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## Chee (Jul 9, 2010)

> He thought that the Phantasm could be Rachel's sister, while I suggested that the Phantasm be Rachel herself. Like she wasn't actually in that warehouse blew up, but in a different one. The Joker is capable of performing non-lethal "jokes".



That's a bit too much on the soap-opera side.

Besides, the coin that Rachel had in her hand was burnt. She was in the warehouse. She's dead. Dead. Dead. Dead.


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## Taleran (Jul 9, 2010)

The only thing the third film needs is the sense of Escalation

First Movie is the Introduction to Batman
Second movie is the retaliation to the inclusion of Batman
Third movie has to be CRAZY


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## Lucaniel (Jul 9, 2010)

Vault said:


> Seriously whats people's obsession with cat woman? I fucking hate the character.



You should read the volume of Catwoman that Greg Rucka and Ed Brubaker write, where she becomes the East End of Gotham's protector.



anyhow, I like the idea of Black Mask as a villain, he brings a grim 'n' gritty touch that Penguin/Poison Ivy/Freeze really can't do, since it's hard to take them seriously on the big screen. But a guy with a black skull for a head? not too hard to do realistically and scarily at all.

though he only really became a big figure in War Games, which is actually more recent than Hush. so he may not star for a lack of audience recognition, which sucks.

if you think about it, a large portion of Batman's celebrated rogue gallery is actually composed of melodramatic, bit-part metahuman wankers. the best ones are usually the crimelords without powers...except when it's the Joker.


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## masamune1 (Jul 9, 2010)

Taleran said:


> The only thing the third film needs is the sense of Escalation
> 
> First Movie is the Introduction to Batman
> Second movie is the retaliation to the inclusion of Batman
> Third movie has to be CRAZY



I don't think their going in that direction. It looks like they were planning on reusing the Joker (which would have made this easy) but then Ledger died, and they are'nt using him in this one. Nolan does'nt seem to want Two-Face either, so that's two guys you'd really want fo escalation out the window, though Scarecrow will probably be back I'd guess. 

I think it will be more low key and cerebral, actually. Nolan doesn't want to introduce too many more characters and they set-up for the film is a lot like the story _Prey._ I think he'll try for a more sombre ending to this trilogy.


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## Taleran (Jul 9, 2010)

That's a shame.


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## Dream Brother (Jul 9, 2010)

I kinda like the idea of a female antagonist this time. I'd find that interesting, although I'm not familiar enough with the source material to suggest anything other than the obvious choices.


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## Taleran (Jul 9, 2010)

The only choice outside Catwoman or Ivy(who is pretty much out)

Would be Talia Al Ghul and her in a movie could work very very well.


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## Graham Aker (Jul 9, 2010)

Ra's and Talia, dooo eeeeet Nolan!!


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## masamune1 (Jul 9, 2010)

Dream Brother said:


> I kinda like the idea of a female antagonist this time. I'd find that interesting, although I'm not familiar enough with the source material to suggest anything other than the obvious choices.



Catwoman, Poison Ivy, Harley Quinn and Talia Al Ghul. Catwoman and Talia are more anti-villains, so they would'nt be the lead antagonists, and Harley is pointless without the Joker. Poison Ivy has pretty much been banned. 

There are a bunch of other girls, but no-one anyone has heard of, mostly bit-players, like that Russian mobster from _War Games_.


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## Ice Prince (Jul 9, 2010)

Actually, Harley would be quite good with either Joker or Ivy.  Obviously Joker is out, but the potential for a Harley/Ivy combo would be awesome in Nolan's hands I think.  Add in the intro for the Penguin/Riddler and you've got a movie and a reason for another movie.

Harley far from sucks without Joker though, in my opinion.  I actually find her more interesting on her own.  Nolan could make her fantastic, this I'm sure of.  Writing her in without Joker's appearance wouldn't be hard, provided it is explained.  She'd obviously be out for revenge.


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## Dream Brother (Jul 9, 2010)

Interesting...I looked up Talia, and she definitely sounds like a good character, from what little I read. I'm also a fan of Catwoman, and I certainly wouldn't mind her either...I have to wonder how Nolan would approach a character like that. I think the 'anti' element could still make for a good antagonist -- it's just more of a complex and difficult affair than the straight out villains. I think a morally ambiguous female antagonist could compliment your idea of the new film being 'low key and cerebral' quite well.


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## masamune1 (Jul 9, 2010)

Ice Prince said:


> Actually, Harley would be quite good with either Joker or Ivy.  Obviously Joker is out, but the potential for a Harley/Ivy combo would be awesome in Nolan's hands I think.  Add in the intro for the Penguin/Riddler and you've got a movie and a reason for another movie.
> 
> Harley far from sucks without Joker though, in my opinion.  I actually find her more interesting on her own.  Nolan could make her fantastic, this I'm sure of.  Writing her in without Joker's appearance wouldn't be hard, provided it is explained.  She'd obviously be out for revenge.



Introducing Harley without the Joker would undermine her character. Simly explaining their relationship (non-existent at this point) does'nt cut it, nowhere near as well as _showing_ it. It's a serious disservice to her character to bring her in without properly demonstrating her feelings for Joker (and his lack of feelings for her), since the Joker is the absolute centre of her world. Bringing her in without that would make her come across like one of those women who want to marry prison convicts before they even really know them, rather than someone in a serious, if abusive and one sided love affair. 

Harley's solo stories and her ones with Ivy are interesting because we know both who she is and the full extent of her crazy because we've seen her with the Joker; they are also far too lighthearted for these films.  Bring her in now and no matter how you explain it most of the audience will be getting a 2nd rate dish. Besides, this Joker does'nt really seem like the type who would have a Harley Quinn, and _none_ of them would want her to go out for revenge. If anything making any kind of Harley revenge story without the Joker would just make her seem like the Joker's stupid lackey; not only does she not present the threat he did but he's actually embarassing him, or would if they had shown that they had gotten the chance to know each other. 

Also, Nolan does'nt like to set up movies like you suggest for Penguin and Riddler. He prefers largely stand-alone stories, which is why we only got a card in _Begins_ and Bat's running off into the night in _TDK._ Setting up Penguin and Riddler would interfere with his mojo, especially since he's stated several times that he considers this an ending. 




Dream Brother said:


> Interesting...I looked up Talia, and she definitely sounds like a good character, from what little I read. I'm also a fan of Catwoman, and I certainly wouldn't mind her either...I have to wonder how Nolan would approach a character like that. I think the 'anti' element could still make for a good antagonist -- it's just more of a complex and difficult affair than the straight out villains. I think a morally ambiguous female antagonist could compliment your idea of the new film being 'low key and cerebral' quite well.



By "low key and subtle" I was thinking along the lines of the story _Prey._ That's about Batman being chased by a special task force and the police bringing in psychiatrist Hugo Strange to try and catch him, only for Strange- who has Mob connections- to become obsessed with Batman and his identity to the point where he starts framing him for murders he's behind. 

That's the direction I think they are goign to take. The setup at the end of _TDK_ is the same, and Goyer said he wants to use a villain who has'nt been done before, plus like the films the story is set in Batman's early career. Without big names like Joker and Two-Face we have a psychological cat and mouse game with Bruce also feeling the pressure from teh fallout of the previous film, where all his plans fall apart. A story that lacks the epic sense that _TDK_ had but instead focuses much more on the characters.

Talia is more of a complex love story, and the complexity derives in part from the fact that she is loyal to a (living) madman who is her father, but loves Bruce. Ra's is dead, and bringing him back in this series theway he went out would stretch credibility; they'd be better making Ra's some kind of title (like the Phantom) passed on to different leaders of the League of Shadows, but that would mean introducing an all new character and story. 

I think she'd be interesting to bring in but most of the focus in tese films is definitely on the Mob side of things, and bringing back that League of Shadows stuff now would just be a strange change of pace, returning the focus to Batman himself but taking it off of Gotham City. 

Both Catwoman and Talia are primarily love interests; their "anti" stuff comes from their being bad guys who don't neccesarily want to hurt anyone, but Talia would'nt even try without her father and Catwoman, a thief, does'nt even have to at all. Neither represent any kind of "threat" and so you can't really expect eithr to carry a movie on their own as the main villains, not without making significant changes to their characters. Talia might be easier in that regard but again, it's quite a change in direction. Selina just plan can't, and should'nt, and you'd need another bad guy to balance her out (like Black Mask).


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## Bender (Jul 9, 2010)

Talia should also be in the movie

She comes to gotham to get revenge on Bruce for "killing" her father but comes to love him as watches his struggle against crime in Gotham.

To this end she uses The Riddler , Mr.Freeze, and Bane

Poison Ivy who Talia sics on Bruce during the day time to seduce him and kill him


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## Rukia (Jul 10, 2010)

No female antagonists please.  Nolan has proven that he doesn't know how to write female characters and he doesn't know how to cast them either.


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## In Brightest Day! (Jul 10, 2010)

I'm telling you guys, Shiva *will* at least make a cameo.

Also, I'll lol if it ends up being either Killer Croc, Man-Bat or Clay Face.


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## mystictrunks (Jul 10, 2010)

-Dargor- said:


> Penguin is a mutant, genetic abberation and ridiculously silly character, there's no way he'd fit in the Nolanverse.





He's not a mutant, just a short fat dude who loves suits and has his hand in the criminal world. He's more realistic than Scarecrow or The Joker most of the time.


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## Champagne Supernova (Jul 10, 2010)

The Penguin could work IMO.

Also i've seen fan made poster of guys like David Tennant and Neil Patrick Harris as the Riddler


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## Lucaniel (Jul 10, 2010)

i hate Talia Al Ghul 

for me, she's just another one of those Batman villains that Batman is reluctant to take down because of the attraction, and Catwoman does that waaaaaay better.

Bane could work out interestingly, but the gigantic steroid-abuse hulk of muscle that he is would look much sillier on screen than he does in comics.


----------



## Chee (Jul 10, 2010)

Rukia said:


> No female antagonists please.  Nolan has proven that he doesn't know how to write female characters and he doesn't know how to cast them either.



I disagree with the writing but I agree with the casting for the Batman women only.

Just because a woman doesn't jump on a man's balls every 5 minutes doesn't mean she's a badly written female character. 
The Blonde was a decent femme fatale character.
Natalie, same, but also had more depth because she was also the victim of Lenny.
Ellie didn't have a lot of screen time, but she was written as a job focused woman and a good one at that.
Both the women in The Prestige were fully fleshed out characters, Olivia having more screen time than Sarah.
Rachel Dawes is the least interesting person, I'll agree with that.

I dunno about the women in Inception. Marion and Ellen should be good though.


----------



## Bluebeard (Jul 10, 2010)

I thought it was pretty much confirmed that the Riddler will be the main villain of Batman 3?


----------



## Chee (Jul 10, 2010)

Bluebeard said:


> I thought it was pretty much confirmed that the Riddler will be the main villain of Batman 3?



Nah, they haven't confirmed anything. 

Hopefully Nolan, Goyer, or someone else will say something about it at Comic Con...although Goyer hasn't been involved in the writing process yet.


----------



## Kuromaku (Jul 10, 2010)

Actually, Talia and the League of Shadows could work.  First of all, it would be a tragic romance in that Talia would want revenge for her father, and Bruce would still be hurting over Rachel.  Having the League around would ensure that there are enemies who can fight Batman on his level while also furthering a theme about how the past can haunt you that could be brought up by Bruce's relationship with Talia.

The problem is that this could become what TV Tropes calls a Romantic Plot Tumor if done wrong.

Hugo Strange also has potential, as do Hush and Black Mask.  And as much as I love Mr. Freeze, he'd bring back memories of Arnold, plus he's a bit too cartoony for Nolan's vision (unless he's just a mad scientist who utilizes chemicals that freeze objects rapidly [can't remember the name of it, it was in T2]).


----------



## masamune1 (Jul 10, 2010)

Liquid Nitrogen.


----------



## mystictrunks (Jul 10, 2010)

I kind of want Robin Williams to be in the next one, dude is apparently a big Batman fan and his psycho-crepe factor is impressive at times.


----------



## Chee (Jul 10, 2010)

mystictrunks said:


> I kind of want Robin Williams to be in the next one, dude is apparently a big Batman fan and his psycho-crepe factor is impressive at times.



Have you seen the article he wrote on Insomnia? Guy is so funny, towards the end of the article he kinda starts "begging" Nolan to cast him. Hahah.


----------



## masamune1 (Jul 10, 2010)

Actually, he'd be a decent Hugo Strange. It would be one of those more serious Williams roles (and he'd need to lose some hair, and grow a beard) but he could be a good choice for an obsessive madman.


----------



## Bender (Jul 10, 2010)

> I kind of want Robin Williams to be in the next one, dude is apparently a big Batman fan and his psycho-crepe factor is impressive at times.



Hell no

Not only is he not funny he doesn't have an interesting film career


----------



## Bender (Jul 10, 2010)

Lucaniel said:


> i hate Talia Al Ghul



If it wasn't for Talia and Bruce making sexy time we wouldn't have Damian Wayne in Batman books. 



> Catwoman does that waaaaaay better.



They're both one in the same the only difference being is Talia is the beautiful daughter of the famous guy


----------



## Chee (Jul 10, 2010)

Nolan likes adding Asians to his movies, get Lady Shiva in there.



Bender said:


> If it wasn't for Talia and Bruce making sexy time we wouldn't have *Damian Wayne *in Batman books.



...now I really really hate Talia.


----------



## Bender (Jul 10, 2010)

Chee said:


> ...now I really really hate Talia.



She's also the one who convinced Bruce to go save Gotham when it was being destroyed in Batman No man's land.


----------



## Judas (Jul 10, 2010)

What about Riddler/Hugo Strange?


----------



## mystictrunks (Jul 11, 2010)

Chee said:


> Have you seen the article he wrote on Insomnia? Guy is so funny, towards the end of the article he kinda starts "begging" Nolan to cast him. Hahah.



Yeah, dude was  about the older Batman movies.



Bender said:


> Hell no
> 
> Not only is he not funny he *doesn't have an interesting film career*


----------



## Graham Aker (Jul 11, 2010)

masamune1 said:


> Actually, he'd be a decent Hugo Strange. It would be one of those more serious Williams roles (and he'd need to lose some hair, and grow a beard) but he could be a good choice for an obsessive madman.


I think you just nailed the perfect role for Williams there. Perfect fit for Hugo Strange.

And lol @ Bender. Go watch One Hour Photo.


----------



## Bender (Jul 11, 2010)

mystictrunks said:


>



@ Graham Aker

Okay I'll be a little gentle in my criticism towards him.

The only movie I liked of his back then was Jumanji 

plus, he just doesn't seem that funny to me.

*Remembers the stand up he did on American Idol* 

I hate Ben stiller more and even he's funnier than Robin Williams

But that's good idea for him to be Hugo Strange 

dude fits the bill as weird. 


On another note yeah Hush should be in it too....Bruce comes to him to find someone to talk to after Rachel died. 

Also Poison Ivy, Talia, Hugo Strange, Riddler Freeze, Bane, Black Mask should be the in movie. Sounds like a pretty good cast.


----------



## Rukia (Jul 11, 2010)

I'm not sure that I want Batman 3 to be Nolan's next project.  Maybe he has another script like Inception laying around?


----------



## Bender (Jul 11, 2010)

Rukia said:


> I'm not sure that I want Batman 3 to be Nolan's next project.  Maybe he has another script like Inception laying around?



He' working on a remake of the Superman film series


----------



## Chee (Jul 11, 2010)

> Also Poison Ivy, Talia, Hugo Strange, Riddler Freeze, Bane, Black Mask should be the in movie. Sounds like a pretty good cast.



Weren't you one of the people who complained that too many villains can clog up stories? 



Rukia said:


> I'm not sure that I want Batman 3 to be Nolan's next project.  Maybe he has another script like Inception laying around?



I really hope he does that horror or western he talked about.



> He' working on a remake of the Superman film series



He's just producing. AKA, he does shit nothing but lends his name to further profits.


----------



## Champagne Supernova (Jul 11, 2010)

Jason Alexander as The Penguin


----------



## mystictrunks (Jul 11, 2010)

Bender said:


> @ Graham Aker
> 
> Okay I'll be a little gentle in my criticism towards him.
> 
> ...


He's surprisingly good in serious roles, kind of like a wrinklier Jim Carey in that aspect.


----------



## Bender (Jul 11, 2010)

mystictrunks said:


> He's surprisingly good in serious roles, kind of like a wrinklier Jim Carey in that aspect.



Yeah, true dat

dude should fork anymore comedy film roles and step into serious movies. 



> Weren't you one of the people who complained that too many villains can clog up stories?



What? No, you got me confused with somebody else



			
				Champagne Supernova said:
			
		

> Jason Alexander as The Penguin



Fuck no,  Philip Seymour Hoffman as The Penguin


----------



## Parallax (Jul 11, 2010)

He was great in Dead Poets Society and Good Will Hunting, the former which got him an Oscar nomination the latter with actually got him the award

So yeah the man can act


----------



## Starstalker (Jul 11, 2010)

If Catwoman makes an appearance in this movie, I seriously won't watch it.

Ever.


----------



## Taleran (Jul 11, 2010)

Chee said:


> ...now I really really hate Talia.



We can't be friends anymore.


----------



## Chee (Jul 11, 2010)

Taleran said:


> We can't be friends anymore.



I'm joking.


----------



## Rukia (Jul 11, 2010)

You guys are going to be so disappointed.  I think the next Batman movie might be like Children of Men.  No women in sight.


----------



## Z (Jul 11, 2010)

Obviously there is going to be sexual tension in the film.There's gonna be a female in the movie, whether a villainess or heroine. It's most likely the former, so the choices are Catwoman, Ivy, or Talia.


----------



## Chee (Jul 11, 2010)

Or Janice Porter...but probably no sexual tension. Sure she banged Harvey Dent in the comics, but Bruce Wayne probably knows she hates Batman so there's no way he's gonna be interested in her.


----------



## masamune1 (Jul 11, 2010)

Nolan has stated he does'nt want Catwoman and he does'nt seem to want Ivy. Talia is unlikely because she changes the focus of the story.

I don't see why it's at all more likely that a villainess will be in this film. Women, yes, but not villainesses.


----------



## Champagne Supernova (Jul 12, 2010)

Bender said:


> Fuck no,  Philip Seymour Hoffman as The Penguin


----------



## Yoshi-Paperfold (Jul 12, 2010)

I don't think I could take Neil Patrick Harris seriously as the riddler. How tall is he?


----------



## Z (Jul 12, 2010)

There must be sexual tension in the movie. Not saying I want it or anything, but because without it, it won't do as good as the creators want in the box office.


----------



## Velocity (Jul 12, 2010)

Yoshi-Paperfold said:


> I don't think I could take Neil Patrick Harris seriously as the riddler. How tall is he?



Why not? He'd be AWESOME. 

Much better than Jim bloody Carey at any rate. 



Z said:


> There must be sexual tension in the movie. Not saying I want it or anything, but because without it, it won't do as good as the creators want in the box office.



If Neil Patrick Harris is in it, there'll be plenty of sexual tension.


----------



## Bender (Jul 12, 2010)

> Talia is unlikely because she changes the focus of the story.



How the fuck would she change the focus of the story? 

She's torn between killing Bruce and loving him when she sees his struggle. Give the movie a sorta Samurai X Trust & Betrayal director's cut. Also maybe add some Batman: No man's land story elements and Talia being responsible for it. Poison Ivy is a political assassin and seduces men and kills them with lipstick that has a deadly chemical agent (similar to the one night mushroom used by the chick in Samurai Champloo).

 Bane is muscle for Black mask; an up and coming drug kingpin who brags about being better than the Joker. Riddler MUST be in the movie since there has to be some depth of residual battle of wits challenge (like there was in The Dark Knight) as it's another aspect of Batman. Riddler will also act as annoyance to Batman like Joker was and will torment him with various riddles and the most pivotal one being "What would you do if they were a liar" meaning he's been betrayed  ( by Talia and Tommy Eliot) by someone close to him. The final movie should also highlight the dark nature of Batman and how much of a loner he is as well of how spooky he is (like his comic-book counterpart). 

Having nothing but men in the film will be really gay.


----------



## Chee (Jul 12, 2010)

Dude, that is way to many villains.


----------



## Bender (Jul 12, 2010)

Chee said:


> Dude, that is way to many villains.



So were there in Batman Begins 

There was Scarecrow ,Carmine Falcone, Zsaz, and Ra's Al Ghul


----------



## Chee (Jul 12, 2010)

The only thing Zsasz did was stand around in Arkham Asylum.


----------



## Bender (Jul 12, 2010)

Chee said:


> The only thing Zsasz did was stand around in Arkham Asylum.



Naw, he was about to cut Rachel to pieces during the outbreak of fear toxin in the movies finale had it not been for Bats. Yes, it was a cameo but we still got to see one of the most kick-ass psychopaths (well next to Joker) in movies. Poison Ivy can have the same type of role as a cameo and whatnot. 

Also nevermind Hush being in the movie  I don't think it would work. I mean they can put him in the movie as his civilian identity Tommy Eliot but not costume identity.


----------



## Chee (Jul 12, 2010)

Yea, that was a cameo. Just like how the Scarecrow was a cameo in The Dark Knight.


----------



## Kenpachi_Uchiha (Jul 12, 2010)

Lebron James


----------



## Z (Jul 12, 2010)

Kenpachi_Uchiha said:


> Lebron James



Wrong thread, Kenpachi_Uchiha.


----------



## Legend (Jul 12, 2010)

I thought it was gonna be Black Mask?


----------



## Z (Jul 12, 2010)




----------



## masamune1 (Jul 12, 2010)

Bender said:


> How the fuck would she change the focus of the story?
> 
> She's torn between killing Bruce and loving him when she sees his struggle. Give the movie a sorta Samurai X Trust & Betrayal director's cut. Also maybe add some Batman: No man's land story elements and Talia being responsible for it. Poison Ivy is a political assassin and seduces men and kills them with lipstick that has a deadly chemical agent (similar to the one night mushroom used by the chick in Samurai Champloo).



The focus of the films is fear, escalaton, and in relation to Gotham City. Talia, especially a Talia just after revenge, shifts the focus to Bruce too much instead of Bruce and Gotham. Ivy just sounds out of place considering where the films are. 

This is supposed to be the early years of Batman's career and it's about his attempts to save Gotham and how the blew up in his face by unleashing a native supervillain element. The 3rd film is meant to be the conclusion of a trilogy and neither Talia, and especially not Ivy, really fit into the themes of this trilogy, at least not as well as many other villains.


----------



## Roy (Jul 12, 2010)

Patrick Harris as Riddler? No fucking thank you. I don't another performance liek Carrey's.

Also, you guys probably posted this, but just in case:


----------



## Wesley (Jul 12, 2010)

masamune1 said:


> The focus of the films is fear, escalaton, and in relation to Gotham City. Talia, especially a Talia just after revenge, shifts the focus to Bruce too much instead of Bruce and Gotham. Ivy just sounds out of place considering where the films are.
> 
> This is supposed to be the early years of Batman's career and it's about his attempts to save Gotham and how the blew up in his face by unleashing a native supervillain element. The 3rd film is meant to be the conclusion of a trilogy and neither Talia, and especially not Ivy, really fit into the themes of this trilogy, at least not as well as many other villains.



So are they going to kill Batman in the third film?


----------



## masamune1 (Jul 12, 2010)

Wesley said:


> So are they going to kill Batman in the third film?



I hope not, but I would'nt put it past Nolan.


----------



## Chee (Jul 12, 2010)

Wesley said:


> So are they going to kill Batman in the third film?



Nah, I doubt it. But like Masa said, I wouldn't put it past Nolan. He's pretty ballsy.


----------



## masamune1 (Jul 12, 2010)

If he does'nt kill Batman Nolan might find some other way of definitively ending the series. He might expose Bruce's secret, kill of a major supporting character like Gordon or Alfred, burn Gotham to the ground etc.

I do hope he does'nt. Despite everything he's hinting at, I don't want this to be the end of the series, because it has so much potential- and, of course, who in their right mind would want to see another reboot? I would hope that the Nolans and Goyer stay on as producers at least, and hopefully scriptwriters, even if Christopher does'nt want to come back as director. There is a lot that this series can offer.


----------



## Chee (Jul 12, 2010)

I don't think Nolan will do anything _that_ drastic. But who knows.

And I'm not going to argue again on your second point. Nolan's Batman needs an ending. Going on, and on, and on, gets boring.


----------



## masamune1 (Jul 12, 2010)

It may need an ending, but it does'nt have to be _now._

I'd rather they did have a good idea of how they were going to end it; I'd also rather they did'nt plan on doing it anytime soon.


----------



## Chee (Jul 12, 2010)

Yes, it does have to be now. Three movies is enough.


----------



## masamune1 (Jul 12, 2010)

No, it isn't. It's good enough to go on longer.


----------



## Chee (Jul 12, 2010)

Three is enough.


----------



## masamune1 (Jul 12, 2010)

No, Danielle, no it isn't.


----------



## Chee (Jul 12, 2010)




----------



## Dream Brother (Jul 12, 2010)

I wouldn't mind three, as long as the third outdoes even TDK. I kinda like the idea of a self-contained Nolan trilogy, as I doubt he would want to keep churning 'em out anyway, and it would be a shame to see his project in other, perhaps less capable hands. I do see Masa's point, though, in that the series has so much potential, and I'm sure the source material is bursting with gold yet to be mined.


----------



## Ema Skye (Jul 12, 2010)




----------



## Chee (Jul 12, 2010)

I know the source material has a lot of villains that would be fun to see on screen, but you gotta think about how Nolan, his brother, and Goyer are looking at it. They aren't shoving villains in there just to shove them in there, the villains have a meaning that goes deeper than explosions like I said on the first page.

If they did a fourth movie, what are they going to do? The already begun the series. Escalated the series. And now Nolan wants to end the series.
Fourth one would be pointless.

...

Oh and:


----------



## Roy (Jul 12, 2010)

In the end it's Nolan's decision if he wants to keep doing Batman films. If he wants to continue it's because he has _something_ up his sleeve.


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 12, 2010)

summer 2012, seriously?

Talk about slow delivery.


----------



## Chee (Jul 12, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> summer 2012, seriously?
> 
> Talk about slow delivery.



Yea. 

Filming is supposedly starting in April 2011.


----------



## masamune1 (Jul 12, 2010)

It's not just that the source material has more villains. It has more stories, more themes, more characters in general. I would hate if they did more movies just for the sake of cramming more villains in; in fact I want them to leave room to keep bringing some villains _back_ and using them cleverly.

The films they have made are supposed to be set in the early stages of Batman's career; in that sense, they _did_ plan for more movies, or left room for such. It's easy to see where the movies can go from here- the same way the comics went, to a certain degree anyway. This trilogy is about how Gotham's mob element is overtaken by it's supervillain element; you could establish certain supervillains as the new mob filling that vacum, and you could deal with Batman and the GCPD learning to adapt to fighting these new villains. You can also expand Batman's world and bring in more of his supportng cast; that does'nt include just sidekicks but grounded characters like Leslie Thompson.

Obviously it may be very _difficult_ to keep things fresh and moving and exciting the longer the series goes on, but I don't think the risk of that or the fact that the next director _might_ not be as good as Nolan should be an excuse.


----------



## Chee (Jul 12, 2010)

I'm not using that as an excuse. I'm using the "stories shouldn't be dragged on so long that we start to see Christian Bale's first gray hair" excuse.


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 12, 2010)

Chee said:


> Yea.
> 
> Filming is supposedly starting in April 2011.



But I mean, Chee, they got at least two Iron mans and a hulk between the Dark Knight and now. A Thor and an avengers by 2012

That's alot of movies.
I am really disappoint.


----------



## Chee (Jul 12, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> But I mean, Chee, they got at least two Iron mans and a hulk between the Dark Knight and now. A Thor and an avengers by 2012
> 
> That's alot of movies.
> I am really disappoint.



Nolan wanted to do Inception, and from what all the critics are saying, its pretty damn good.


----------



## In Brightest Day! (Jul 12, 2010)

Who ever recommended Neil Patrick Harris and Jason Alexander, I love you.

How about Kristin Kreuk as Lady Shiva?


----------



## masamune1 (Jul 12, 2010)

Chee said:


> I'm not using that as an excuse. I'm using the "stories shouldn't be dragged on so long that we start to see Christian Bale's first gray hair" excuse.



I doubt Bale will be staying on after this one. He's only contracted for three films. Though I can see Caine, Freeman and others returning.

And it's not like I want the films to go on _forever._ I just want them to do a few more than 3. Preferably, with a plan and conclusion in mind.

Or not. No conclusion did'nt do _B:TAS_ any harm. But an ending, at least, just further down the line.


----------



## Chee (Jul 12, 2010)

> with a plan and conclusion in mind.



That's what they have with the third one.


----------



## masamune1 (Jul 12, 2010)

A plan and conclusion for more than a third film.

Besides, we don't even know if this will be *THE END.* It will be the end of this particular story arc, but that does'nt mean room won't be left. If they do make more films I'd like that kind of format- trilogies or mine-series with their own themes and arcs. It would make the story more manageable and could help keep it fresher.


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Jul 12, 2010)

The next film would mark the end of Year ONE "The Mob Trilogy" for the Batman Series. Year 2 + would cover is anyone's guess.

As far as who the villain could be in the 3rd film duh its: Batman vs. GCPD & National Guard.


----------



## Chee (Jul 12, 2010)

masamune1 said:


> A plan and conclusion for more than a third film.
> 
> Besides, we don't even know if this will be *THE END.* It will be the end of this particular story arc, but that does'nt mean room won't be left. If they do make more films I'd like that kind of format- trilogies or mine-series with their own themes and arcs. It would make the story more manageable and could help keep it fresher.



Oooooh, I understand what you mean now.

Those things already exist though:


----------



## masamune1 (Jul 12, 2010)

Yeah, something like them.

But you know, live action.


----------



## Chee (Jul 12, 2010)

What's wrong with animation?


----------



## masamune1 (Jul 12, 2010)

Whats wrong with live action?

We can have both.


----------



## Chee (Jul 12, 2010)

Sure, but I'll bet it gets sent DTV.


----------



## Z (Jul 12, 2010)

Mask of the Phantasm was great.


----------



## Chee (Jul 12, 2010)

Z said:


> Mask of the Phantasm was great.



They are all jumbled in my head right now...that's the movie with Joker at that retro broken down theme park right? That part was lulzy.


----------



## TSC (Jul 12, 2010)

Chee said:


> They are all jumbled in my head right now...that's the movie with Joker at that retro broken down theme park right? That part was lulzy.



Yeah it is. I love that movie as that movie is probably better than most of the batman live action movies.

I keep hearing that this trilogy is the mob centered stories and I get what you guys are saying, but I find it very weak and not focused as much as it should be. B:TAS handled the mob stories way better imo.


----------



## Z (Jul 13, 2010)

Chee said:


> They are all jumbled in my head right now...that's the movie with Joker at that retro broken down theme park right? That part was lulzy.



Yup        .


----------



## RAGING BONER (Jul 13, 2010)

I sorta want someone to do a Batman Beyond live action movie...

with today's tech and good directing it can be pulled off nicely.

Besides, i think the cartoon ended prematurely


----------



## mystictrunks (Jul 13, 2010)

Trilogy could end with Batman retiring for an undisclosed amount of time for some reason. Leaves it open for sequels or another reboot but with all the fun open ended stuff allows fans to think.


----------



## Yoshi-Paperfold (Jul 13, 2010)

I really liked batman beyond. To bad it only lasted three seasons. I need to get that on DVD. I already have Batman the animated series DVDs. 

What about the Huntress.I just wanted to throw her name out since everyone was mentioning female villains, thought I'd bring a up a hero.

Niel has played in a lot of bad movies. I like him on _How I Met Your Mother_, though.


----------



## -Dargor- (Jul 13, 2010)

A movie with batman beyond storyline could be interesting, especially since its in tone with Nolan's style, but I doubt it'd be coming anytime soon.

Old bruce owning people with his cane skills is always hillarious and badass at the same time.


----------



## R00t_Decision (Jul 13, 2010)

How many of your are wikpedia digest nerds and still read comics? I have 500 comics but stopped reading.


----------



## mow (Jul 13, 2010)

There are three elements to batman: 

1) His dedication to perfection his skills.
2) His fight against crime (globally)/the grueling role it has on his mental stability/how his presence creates his enemies.
3) His unparalleled intelligence

This far (1) was represented by Batman Begins, (2) was showcased by TDK.

Which leaves us with (3)

I'd love for the riddler to play the third. thin of it this way, perfect natural progress of the plot.

Gotham is searching for Batman/his identity after he saved Dent's reputation. Gotham's mayor bring in criminal expert, Edward Nigma, to aid GC police to apprehend Batman. Nigma realises that Batman is the ultimate challenge, discovers his true identity, but keeps it to himself, using the information and his intelligence to construct his own criminal empire (hell, he can even hide under the persona of Black Mask!), causing havok in gotham, a battle of wits with Batman for the soul of gotham. (Expand as needed here)

Final battle, batman saves gotham from a trap set by Nigma (say, booby trapping all Gotham buildings, a scrap from the Damian Wayne book) and batman reveals that black mask is nigma.


This satisfies the fact that Batman has bred a new crop of  "super" criminal the joker mentioned, challenges the intelligence of batman, gives us 2 villains in one, showcases batman in the favor of gotham again, and it's protector aka conclusion.


----------



## Al-Yasa (Jul 13, 2010)

David Hyde price as the riddler ! do it Nolan !


----------



## mow (Jul 13, 2010)

NO!



The true riddler


----------



## masamune1 (Jul 13, 2010)

mow said:


> There are three elements to batman:
> 
> 1) His dedication to perfection his skills.
> 2) His fight against crime (globally)/the grueling role it has on his mental stability/how his presence creates his enemies.
> ...



So, basically, have the Riddler, but decide to make him into Hugo Strange and Black Mask (meaning you _don't_ have the Riddler).


----------



## mow (Jul 13, 2010)

I totally forgot about Strange XD but you cant argue that all three elements of the characters can be combined. Nolan stated he wanted finality, this can be a good way for things to go, if he doesnt want to have more than one villain (thus more than one loose end)


----------



## Yoshi-Paperfold (Jul 14, 2010)

I think David Hyde price name has been brought up in another thread before. I could see him playing the Riddler. 



R00t_Decision said:


> How many of your are wikpedia digest nerds and still read comics? I have 500 comics but stopped reading.



I don't read or buy superhero comics because its costly, confusing and overall frustrating. A story arc may only spanned over six issues, but crossovers into other several series, and trying to figure out the order the issues should be read is also a pain.


----------



## Bleach (Jul 14, 2010)

Poison Ivy and Mr. Penguin


----------



## masamune1 (Jul 14, 2010)

mow said:


> I totally forgot about Strange XD but you cant argue that all three elements of the characters can be combined. Nolan stated he wanted finality, this can be a good way for things to go, if he doesnt want to have more than one villain (thus more than one loose end)



They _can_ be combined, but it would'nt be good for any of them. You are having the Riddler and then changing a lot of the stuff that makes him The Riddler; your having Strange but changing a lot of stuff that makes him Strange; and your having Black Mask and changing a lot of stuff that makes him Black Mask.

I seriously doubt he'll go with just one villain, an if he does that won't really make much of a loose end since he can still wrap up all their stories. Both previous films had multiple villains and their stories were more or less sorted, except for the Joker of all people. Plus, most of the villains in the story are more symbols than independant characters; none of them get much of a backstory and they seem to exist more to respresent different aspects like fear or chaos. So loose ends are'nt that much of a problem- they are'nt really full characters.



Yoshi-Paperfold said:


> I think David Hyde price name has been brought up in another thread before. I could see him playing the Riddler



Maybe 10 years ago or something, when he was younger. Riddler, like the Joker and Two-Face, should be roughly the same age as Bruce.



> I don't read or buy superhero comics because its costly, confusing and overall frustrating. A story arc may only spanned over six issues, but crossovers into other several series, and trying to figure out the order the issues should be read is also a pain.



That's what Wiki's for.


----------



## hitokugutsu (Jul 14, 2010)

mow said:


> There are three elements to batman:
> 
> 1) His dedication to perfection his skills.
> 2) His fight against crime (globally)/the grueling role it has on his mental stability/how his presence creates his enemies.
> ...



Part 3 needs Riddler indeed. Not sure if Black Mask persona is needed. Would only cause more confusion and fuck up the Riddlers character

As for secondairy villain: Talia Al Ghul. I'm not a big fan of superhero love interests, but she could be the perfect woman for Bruce and villain at the same time, if played correctly. Also they need to drop hints that Ra is still alive but somewhere behind the scenes or something


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## masamune1 (Jul 14, 2010)

Nah; they should make Ra's a different guy from Liam Neeson, his successor, and make Ra's Al Ghul the name given to the head of the League.

The new guy can be more like the traditional Ra's Al Ghul (genocidal etc.), 'cept without his immortality. Which is for the best because the comic and cartoon Ra's both devolved from high minded eco terrorists to cowards obsessed with cheating death because of their immortality.


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## Wesley (Jul 14, 2010)

Talia could be Ra.


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## Graham Aker (Jul 14, 2010)

Wow, that's... no. Talia is Talia, and Ra's is Ra's.


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## Z (Jul 14, 2010)

Wesley said:


> Talia could be Ra.



You never stop do you?


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## Gabe (Jul 14, 2010)

solamon grundy or clayface


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## Emperor Joker (Jul 14, 2010)

~Ageha~ said:


> solamon grundy or clayface



Neither would work with Nolan's realistic approach to things to be honest...but isn't Grundy more of a Flash villian than a Batman one anyways.


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## Gabe (Jul 14, 2010)

Emperor Joker said:


> Neither would work with Nolan's realistic approach to things to be honest...but isn't Grundy more of a Flash villian than a Batman one anyways.



yeah but i like the character


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## masamune1 (Jul 16, 2010)

After seeing _Inception_, I can pretty much guarantee that _if_ the Riddler is in this film, he _will_ be played by Joseph Gordon-Levitt.


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## Yoshi-Paperfold (Jul 16, 2010)

What does the Riddler symbolize?

If the theme for first two films in the batman trilogy were fear and chaos, I believe the third will be the "restoration of order". Since the underworld is in chaos due to the joker's actions in TDK, I would like to see two villains trying to take over the underworld. I nominate the Penguin and Black mask. Nolan should've kept dent alive.


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## Ech?ux (Jul 16, 2010)

I hope the Penguin isn't the villain, that would be pretty lame.


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## Dream Brother (Jul 16, 2010)

masamune1 said:


> After seeing _Inception_, I can pretty much guarantee that _if_ the Riddler is in this film, he _will_ be played by Joseph Gordon-Levitt.



JGL is cool...I can't picture him as the Riddler, but I've never seen him in a role even similar to that one, so for all I know he would be good. I really want to see _Inception_...looks great. I think I read an article about Nolan really digging Levitt's acting, so I wouldn't be surprised if he was ever cast in the next Bats film.


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## Ech?ux (Jul 16, 2010)

He's an awesome actor. I actually recently watched brick and have the lookout at my house right now.


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## masamune1 (Jul 16, 2010)

If you've seen _Inception_ you can picture him easy. First thing I thought of when I saw him. It's a pretty straightforward role, but it's him alright.


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## Rukia (Jul 17, 2010)

masamune1 said:


> After seeing _Inception_, I can pretty much guarantee that _if_ the Riddler is in this film, he _will_ be played by Joseph Gordon-Levitt.


I'd like to see Marion Cotillard if Nolan chooses a female villain.  I thought she was great as Mal.


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## Gabe (Jul 17, 2010)

the first movie was about fear with scare crow and batman facing his fears. the second one was chaos with the joker killing for fun what will the third be.


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## Chee (Jul 17, 2010)

> the second one was chaos with the joker killing for fun what will the third be.



Hahhahaah, no. 

Second one was about how far Batman would go to save lives. What is the border between anarchy and vigilantism? That and escalation.


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## Ech?ux (Jul 17, 2010)

Chee he was talking about the villains, and I agree with him. 
Fear, Chaos that is.


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## masamune1 (Jul 17, 2010)

No, he was talking about the films. He clearly says so.


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## Ech?ux (Jul 17, 2010)

~Ageha~ said:


> *the first movie was about fear with scare crow* and batman facing his fears. *the second one was chaos with the joker killing for fun* what will the third be.



He's talking about what the films represent using the villains as the backbone of his statement.


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## Chee (Jul 17, 2010)

Ech? said:


> Chee he was talking about the villains, and I agree with him.
> Fear, Chaos that is.



He mentioned Batman being related to that fear in the first sentence so I thought he was talking about the overall theme.


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## Ech?ux (Jul 17, 2010)

Chee said:


> He mentioned Batman being related to that fear in the first sentence so I thought he was talking about the overall theme.



I suppose ihe could be, but I'll be a bit more direct 

I think the first movie is directly related to fear, with the villain they chose. And then we have Chaos with the Joker. What could be next? Profit? Risk? Greed? I suppose Risk would be a good one for the Riddler.


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## Gabe (Jul 18, 2010)

i was talking about the villain as well  i should have not put batman facing his fears though. but he still had to face them in part one. in part two there was chaos cause batman had to realize what he had pushed the criminals to become and who they had to turn to to beat batman partnering with the joker.


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## Inamax (Aug 4, 2010)

If the next movie has Poison Ivy and/or Mr. Freeze.. I'll have the biggest fangasm :WOW


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## Wuzzman (Aug 4, 2010)

The only real worthy villain is  mr.freeze, poison ivy, and clayface to be honest. The Riddler is a joker rehash by nolan verse standards. Ask the question does this villain bring something new to the table, can this villain be solved by the police. i mean i love the riddler but i defiantly sure you can't make a movie out of him. the third batman movie has batman on the run from the law, despised by the people for killing their white knight, and lost mr.fox. Does this city need batman? the ideal villain makes people realize that they need batman, something that the riddler can't do.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 4, 2010)

If the Riddler is included he doesn't necessarily need to be a villain. They could go with his current shtick as a genius private investigator, and have the police bring him in to figure out bat's identity.


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## Bender (Aug 4, 2010)

^

Nah, I think he'd make a good villain

Also I got a great idea

Clayface should also be the other villain in the movie!


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## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 5, 2010)

Clayface won't be in this movie, you already know that.

I dunno, I just dont wanna see Riddler commiting crimes and shit, thats boring to me. The biggest threat he brings to the table is actually having the deductive ability to expose who Batman is.

Whether he does that on the right or wrong side of the law is irrelevant to me.


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## Bender (Aug 5, 2010)

^

Dude what's so bad about Clayface being the villain?

Plus, Nolan said he wants to portray Bat-villains that haven't been on the big screen


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## masamune1 (Aug 5, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I dunno, I just dont wanna see Riddler commiting crimes and shit, thats boring to me.



I will slap you.



> The biggest threat he brings to the table is actually having the deductive ability to expose who Batman is.



Riddler has _never_ been threatening in regards to the "Who is Batman" thing. In his 60 odd year history he has done that maybe once, in _Hush_, and even that did'nt work out too well since Hush himself did most of the work, and Batman pointed out that knowing who he was was useless to Nygma because "Whats the point of a riddle everyone knows the answer too?"  

The knowledge brings him nothing but misery as Hush tries to kill him and he ends up having a mental breakdown having done _nothing_ with it. That is the _only_ time he's learnt Batman's identity (bar _Forever)_ and I think the only time he even bothered to try. In the _Arkham Asylum_ game it's even parodied a bit because he thinks Batman's money must come from robbing criminals like him. 

The point of Nygma is that he is a mental challenge to Batman, trying to constantly prove how smart he is. Finding out Batman's identity does'nt do that and it's a lazy way to make him a threat. It was never what made him a menace- that was the fact that he was willing to make the entire city his chessboard in his games to prove his superiority, and the fact that he isn't actually smarter (it might be different in this series since Bale's Wayne is smart, but not _super_ smart).  



Bender said:


> ^
> 
> Dude what's so bad about Clayface being the villain?
> 
> Plus, Nolan said he wants to portray Bat-villains that haven't been on the big screen



Goyer said that. He does'nt seem involved with the film at present. Nolan has inferred that he wants to keep this down to earth, so unless we're talking about Golden Age Clayface (ie. serial killer in a mask) he ain't happening. He's not exactly top of the list even if weird stuff gets brought in anyway. There are more interesting characters than him.


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## Bender (Aug 5, 2010)

^

Yeah I can understand that

But oi ain't there some sort of real-life contraption that can make you a master of disguise?


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## masamune1 (Aug 5, 2010)

No. **


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## Bender (Aug 5, 2010)

masamune1 said:


> No. **



Nevermind no Clayface then


Villains included in movie should be:

Talia, league of shadows, The Riddler 


Also maybe Talia should dress up as Phantasm from Batman: Mask of the Phantasm.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Aug 5, 2010)

masamune1 said:


> Riddler has _never_ been threatening in regards to the "Who is Batman" thing. In his 60 odd year history he has done that maybe once, in _Hush_, and even that did'nt work out too well since Hush himself did most of teh work, and Batman pointed out that knowing who he was was useless to Nygma because "Whats the point of a riddle everyone knows the answer too?"
> 
> The knowledge brings him nothing but misery as Hush tries to kill him and he ends up having a mental breakdown having done _nothing_ with it. That is the _only_ time he's learnt Batman's identity (bar _Forever)_ and I think the only time he even bothered to try. In the _Arkham Asylum_ game it's even parodied a bit becaue che thinks Batman's money must come from robbing criminals like him.
> 
> The point of Nygma is that he is a mental challenge to Batman, trying to constantly prove how smart he is. Finding out Batman's identity does'nt do that and it's a lazy way to make him a threat. It was never what made him a menace- that was the fact that he was willing to make teh entire city his chessboard in his games to prove his superiority, and the fact that he isn't actually smarter (it might be different in this series since Bale's Wayne is smart, but not _super_ smart).



Ouch.

Okay yea, im man enough to admit when I just got owned. I suppose you're right, that the "Who is batman" bit is lazy. I trust Nolan enough that if he uses Riddler he'll make him a genuine intellectual threat.

I agree that Bale's Wayne isn't batgod smart, and I'd love it if this movie highlighted his intelligence and deductive skills more than the previous 2 films. His discovery of Joker's location via bullet fingerprinting was pretty sweet, but that was more about having the resources and forensic know how, rather than old school detective skills.


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## Semiotic Sacrilege (Aug 5, 2010)

It almost seems like a cliché now but Johnny Depp as the Riddler would just be perfect. Just imagine his voice saying "riddle me this, riddle me that"... it's too spot on. It's probably not going to happen though. I have no doubt Nolan will make a good choice no matter who it is regardless.


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## masamune1 (Aug 7, 2010)

Lets change the subject. If they make a _Batman 4,_ and Christian Bale does'nt continue, who would be a good replacement for him?


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## Taleran (Aug 7, 2010)

I like Jon Hamm for an awesome Bruce Wayne. He is obviously not a Batman who you tell the origin story with ala begins.


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## FitzChivalry (Aug 7, 2010)

Bale would probably be down for a fourth installment if Christopher Nolan is. He's the bigger question mark (pun intended) than Bale is, if you ask me. But my vote would definitely go to Jon Hamm. Blue eyes, strong jawed, good build. He could bring a lot of gravitas to a comic book role. The way he sets his jaw in a scene in Mad Men, the way he broods, his great ability to play that deeply flawed character. From an acting standpoint, it would be perfect. The rather big question for me here would be whether or not he can be coached into performing his stunts, but I would question that of most any other actor not named Jackie Chan.

Cilian Murphy might have had a shot if he weren't already cast as Scarecrow. Nolan really, really likes that guy, as he reportedly impressed the hell out of him when he auditioned for the Wayne/Batman role in Batman Begins in the first place.


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## Parallax (Aug 8, 2010)

I think Jon Hamm is the perfect pick for Bruce Wayne, I'm not sure about being Batman but I would still love to see him take on the role.


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## masamune1 (Aug 8, 2010)

FitzChivalry said:


> Bale would probably be down for a fourth installment if Christopher Nolan is. He's the bigger question mark (pun intended) than Bale is, if you ask me. But my vote would definitely go to Jon Hamm. Blue eyes, strong jawed, good build. He could bring a lot of gravitas to a comic book role. The way he sets his jaw in a scene in Mad Men, the way he broods, his great ability to play that deeply flawed character. From an acting standpoint, it would be perfect. The rather big question for me here would be whether or not he can be coached into performing his stunts, but I would question that of most any other actor not named Jackie Chan.
> 
> Cilian Murphy might have had a shot if he weren't already cast as Scarecrow. Nolan really, really likes that guy, as he reportedly impressed the hell out of him when he auditioned for the Wayne/Batman role in Batman Begins in the first place.



I'm pretty certain Christopher Nolan won't be directing _Batman 4._ If there is one, he might be involved as producer or something, but I don't see him directing (if Jonathan Nolan does the Superman gig, it would be interesting if _he_ directed B4). Bale is signed up only for 3 films, and I actually think that even if Nolan does stay on he might not. I don't see him being in it for the long run.

Anyway, anyone else apart from Jon Hamm?


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## Bender (Aug 8, 2010)

Who the hell would they make villain for the 4th movie?


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## Bart (Aug 8, 2010)

Nolan said Batman 3 is the final part of the story; so it's pretty obvious that a 4th part is a big no.


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## Arya Stark (Aug 8, 2010)

Taleran said:


> I like Jon Hamm for an awesome Bruce Wayne. He is obviously not a Batman who you tell the origin story with ala begins.



Yes he fits Bruce Wayne more than Bale but I tought Christian Bale is already in the movie? (from what I see in imDB)

I wish Poison Ivy will be the villain but...Well...


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## masamune1 (Aug 8, 2010)

Bender said:


> Who the hell would they make villain for the 4th movie?




*Spoiler*: __ 




Black Mask 
Penguin
Catwoman
Poison Ivy
Bane
Killer Croc
Mad Hatter
Scarface/ Ventriloquist
Joker 
Two-Face 
Clayface
Mr Freeze
Hugo Strange
Riddler
Scarecrow
Ra's Al Ghul




Take your pick.




Bart said:


> Nolan said Batman 3 is the final part of the story; so it's pretty obvious that a 4th part is a big no.



He said he views it as a conclusion to the story in _Begins_ and _TDK._ That does'nt mean that there won't be room for a sequel; it could just mean that the themes and character arcs for these films will be wrapped up. The only way to _really_ end it would be to either expose Bruce or kill some major characters, and I don't see that happening. The studio at least will probably not let their best superhero franchise die this early.



FirstMoon said:


> Yes he fits Bruce Wayne more than Bale but I tought Christian Bale is already in the movie? (from what I see in imDB)



He is. We're talking about after Batman 3.


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## Arya Stark (Aug 8, 2010)

^ Ups,my bad.


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## Bender (Aug 8, 2010)

> it could just mean that the themes and character arcs for these films will be wrapped up.



Okay, but there's no need to ruin it with a 4th movie. 



> The studio at least will probably not let their best superhero franchise die this early.



If they don't want it to die The Dark knight film series then they should do an animated series based off it. You know like Batman: Gotham knight which served as an interlude between Batman Begins and The Dark knight.

And we all know how awesome that was. 

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXrhcQ7M-K4[/YOUTUBE]

Making an anime series of Nolan TDK franchise would be a fantastic idea.


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## masamune1 (Aug 8, 2010)

Bender said:


> Okay, but there's no need to ruin it with a 4th movie.



The 4th movie can be the start of a new story arc. What's the point of adapting something if you are only going to show the very beginning of the story? If the Nolan series ends here then someone else will just start the series all over again and we'll have to put up with another reboot. 

Or, we can see how far a good story can go.


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## Taleran (Aug 8, 2010)

Bart said:


> Nolan said Batman 3 is the final part of the story; so it's pretty obvious that a 4th part is a big no.



Either way there will continue to be Batman films. Whether the next film is a 4 or a 1 or something completely different is what remains to be seen.


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## Tony Lou (Aug 8, 2010)

I don't like the actor who played Batman in the Dark Knight Movie.

His face doesn't look... Batman-ish when he is wearing the suit. And that stupid voice he makes. That's probably the director's fault though.


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## mystictrunks (Aug 10, 2010)




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## masamune1 (Aug 10, 2010)

Don't know why Ebert even has to doubt it's fake. The last part of that script flat-out _admits_ it's fake.


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## Taleran (Aug 10, 2010)

I saw something that would be INCREDIBLE


*Spoiler*: _The Riddler_


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## Rukia (Aug 10, 2010)

Interesting idea.  But I wouldn't really consider that guy to be a credible threat.  He would sort of be a comic relief villain like Sam Rockwell's Hammer in Iron Man 2.

And did I hear you guys discussing Batman 4 without Nolan?  

NEWSFLASH.  If Nolan walks away from the franchise, they won't make a 4th film.  They will re-boot it again.  Sad, but true.


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## Bluebeard (Aug 10, 2010)

If they reboot it again, I won't it to be the ridiculous silver age Batman type. 

They've done the darker and ediger before already. However, they'll probably just try again and bomb.


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## Taleran (Aug 10, 2010)

Also the perfect Nolan ending.


"Master Bruce you have been pretty stressed recently so I managed to pick up 2 Tickets to the Circus."
End with Black Screen and Circus music playing.


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## Castiel (Aug 11, 2010)

Taleran said:


> I saw something that would be INCREDIBLE
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: _The Riddler_



My dad kept asking me if he was going to be "the same guy as that weirdo from the Adam West show", after 5 minutes of trying to be specific of which weirdo he meants I have to admit it made a lot of sense to me.


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## Taleran (Aug 11, 2010)

I think the best idea for the Riddler is one that will not be used. Never reveal directly who is playing the Role EVER. Hint at it but the character in the films wears a full mask with a ? on the front of it.

The Ultimate Puzzle extends beyond the film.


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## Bluebeard (Aug 11, 2010)

^
I actually would like it they did that.


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## John Carter of Mars (Aug 25, 2010)

sorry for bumping this thread. 
But here's something Batman fans should know if they want to see where Nolan is taking the third edition of the Batman trilogy.
He says this will be the last and conclusive story of the Batman. 
Quoted from wikipedia. 
IMDB says Joseph Gordon Levitt would be interested in the 'Riddler' role. But I would very much like to disagree. Please o geez no. 



> he next Batman film will be Nolan's last in the series and a conclusion to the story. Nolan says, "Without getting into specifics, the key thing that makes the third film a great possibility for us is that we want to finish our story. And in viewing it as the finishing of a story rather than infinitely blowing up the balloon and expanding the story . . . I’m very excited about the end of the film, the conclusion, and what we’ve done with the characters. My brother has come up with some pretty exciting stuff.


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## Mider T (Jul 22, 2018)

John Carter of Mars said:


> IMDB says Joseph Gordon Levitt would be interested in the 'Riddler' role.


Nah he is Nightwing.  The movie's villains are Bane and Talia al-Ghul.


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## James Bond (Jul 23, 2018)

I don't think Riddler would make a good main villain for Batman maybe a side villain but not the main antagonist of the film. I would seriously like to see Red Hood storyline adapted and it could be done as we had the little possible nod to it in BvS.


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## Unicornsilovethem (Jul 26, 2018)

Nice 8 year necro.


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## GhibliFox (Jul 29, 2018)

The Penguin and the Court of Owls.


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## Brian (Jul 30, 2018)




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## GhibliFox (Jul 31, 2018)

I honestly loved the Tim Burton and Joel Schumacher series, it felt more like the comic-book Batman we seen in all the DC animated movies compared to the Batman we see in The Dark Knight Trilogy or the DC Extended Universe.


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