# killer bee vs nagato (no restrictions)



## Icegaze (Mar 4, 2015)

Most would say BM or BSM naruto beat nagato to the ground. I dont necessarily agree however i wont argue it. 

how does killer bee fair? Granted BM naruto is stronger but i dont believe he is much stronger than killer bee. 

Location: open field 
distance: 10m 
mindset: absolute utter blood lust. Killer bee isnt slightly holding back 

*Note: this is nagato after absorbing killer bee chakra in the manga*

I think this is a tough match. 

BD barrage would be certainly hard to deal with. As for the soul dragon i suspect BD at gedo mazo should pretty much stop it. 

ST is a problem no doubt but something as large and as strong as hachibi can probably anchor itself or at worst get hit by ST and then reply with a BD barrage. 

while some people would give gakido a no limit fallacy, i believe kishi set a limit on the technique already. 

it all depends on how much chakra nagato body can absorb and handle.


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## sanninme rikudo (Mar 4, 2015)

A question. Didn't Gamabunta sit on Kurama and have temporarily immobilized for the time he was on Kurama?


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## DaVizWiz (Mar 4, 2015)

10m distance, I don't see how Killer Bee avoids BT & Soul Rip, assuming this version of Nagato is indeed as mobile as the Edo variant. Strictly speaking, he shouldn't be capable of standing on his own regardless of the chakra absorption, he's not Edo here. Meaning he's on his ass at start battle holding an arm out. 

Maybe chakra tentacles breaks him out before a soul rip. Maybe Preta Path renders them moot and dead, who knows.

I give Nagato the advantage assuming he's mobile. If he's not, Killer Bee should win this in a long gunslinger fight between Shinra Tensei, CST, CT, Whirlwind, BM Tentacle Stretches & Bijuudama. 

CST isn't downing him, he tanked his own bijuudama to the face, blunt force is something Gyuki can handle.


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## SonicShane97 (Mar 4, 2015)

sanninme rikudo said:


> A question. Didn't Gamabunta sit on Kurama and have temporarily immobilized for the time he was on Kurama?



Yes. Gamabunta literally popped out of the air right above Kuramas head, and even then he could barely do anything. Also, Kurama would have been weakened after fighting 3rd hokage, Leaf shinobi, ect. I'd take this with a grain of salt.


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## Icegaze (Mar 4, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> 10m distance, I don't see how Killer Bee avoids BT & Soul Rip, assuming this version of Nagato is indeed as mobile as the Edo variant. Strictly speaking, he shouldn't be capable of standing on his own regardless of the chakra absorption, he's not Edo here. Meaning he's on his ass at start battle holding an arm out.
> 
> Maybe chakra tentacles breaks him out before a soul rip. Maybe Preta Path renders them moot and dead, who knows.
> 
> ...



Nagato is as mobile as his ET form 
Also tentacle smacks Nagato  to the ground 

Naruto was able to use a chakra arm to change direction . Bee can do the same . BT+ soul rip is countered without much difficulty 


CT isn't an issue not when Bee can spam BD with a lot more ease than nagato can use CT


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## Mercurial (Mar 4, 2015)

Nagato neg diffs by feats and by portrayal. Bansho Tenin + Human Path negs Bee, or Chibaku Tensei, or Shinra Tensei spam. Preta Path should be able to deal with Bijuu Dama easily as he could absorb the Hachibi's entire V2 shroud like nothing, also Shinra Tensei suffices too.


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## Thunder (Mar 4, 2015)

Edo Nagato manhandled Bee the few times they clashed in those stop Nagato chapters. In this scenario Bee's got knowledge though. And he's gotten better feats since then because of his plot significance. If Bee goes full Hachibi and fires that Bijūdama barrage Nagato will have his work cut out for him. 

They start pretty close here, however. Nagato may overwhelm Bee with his Rinnegan powers before that. Leaning towards that outcome to be honest.


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## DaVizWiz (Mar 4, 2015)

> Nagato is as mobile as his ET form


So he's not injured? Important that you put that in OP. 



> Also tentacle smacks Nagato  to the ground


It's possible, considering they managed to wrap Kisamehada in his water dome, the tentacles weren't absorbed there. 



> Naruto was able to use a chakra arm to change direction . Bee can do the same . BT+ soul rip is countered without much difficulty


The Rasengan was absorbed, negating the attack entirely. Nagato didn't need to absorb the arm. That doesn't mean that he couldn't have. 



> CT isn't an issue not when Bee can spam BD with a lot more ease than nagato can use CT


I agree.


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 4, 2015)

I see Bee winning more times that not simply because of Bijuudama spam.

 Bee loses with anything less than Tailed Beast Mode.


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## Nikushimi (Mar 4, 2015)

Nagato wins.

He's got some great anti-Bijuu weaponry in his arsenal. And let's be real, here: The Hachibi fought to a draw with the 3rd Raikage. Nagato would rape the 3rd Raikage. Even though Bijuu are stronger with Jinchuuriki than they are in the wild, we saw what happened when B fought Nagato in the manga: Nagato _dominated_ him. Absorbed his chakra cloak. Restrained him with cables and nearly blasted his head off his shoulders with a chakra cannon.

Even going full Bijuu, the Hachibi's Bijuudama probably isn't enough to cut it against Chibaku Tensei all on its own. As resilient as the Hachibi is, it (and B) can still suffocate under tons of densely-packed debris. And I know B in Bijuu Mode is strong as hell, but breaking out of Chibaku Tensei AND escaping the gravity well is something Naruto's incomplete Kyuubi transformation stalled in the process of accomplishing--and Nagato was noted for his Jutsu being significantly stronger than Pain's. It's not gonna happen, and especially not if B has already been worn down significantly by things like Shinra Tensei, chakra cannons, and chakra absorption.


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## DaVizWiz (Mar 4, 2015)

CT isn't getting set up if Killer Bee is in BM, he can spree fire bijuudama, tear up a forest with whirlwind and stretch his tentacles kilometers to capture spinning bijuu.


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## Joakim3 (Mar 4, 2015)

10m away.... Killer B gets utter fodderized

His *only* option if he wants to survive anything more then 30 seconds would be to go Full Biju mode and nuke Nagato (and the surround landscape) of the map via _Renzuki Bijudama_ something he can't do with a starting distance that short when you consider a semi crippled Edo Nagato blitzed him from god knows how far _after_ using ST on him  

Assuming Nagato can't blitz (which he logically could) he forces CqC with _Bansho Tenin_ & _Shurado_ powers and pulls a Kisame with _Gakido_. Once Nagato has Killer B in his grasp like canon, it's GG. Just insert + any lethal attack and you have a dead B



This is a ridiculously massive stomp with these stipulations


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## Nikushimi (Mar 4, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> CT isn't getting set up if Killer Bee is in BM, he can spree fire bijuudama, tear up a forest with whirlwind and stretch his tentacles kilometers to capture spinning bijuu.



Nagato can nullify that very simply with a Shinra Tensei powerful enough to break every bone in three boss summons' bodies simultaneously. While B is reeling from that, or a chakra cannon to the face, or fighting off one or two of Nagato's assorted summons, Nagato has plenty of time to put his hands together, throw a gravity well, and forget about it.

But basically B can't do shit as long as Nagato can flatten him with Shinra Tensei. Easiest way to create an opening for CT.


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 4, 2015)

@Joakim

 That's a good point though Bee himself was totally caught off-guard.

 Even then, one can argue that Nagato was unable to react to V2 Bee's Lariat perfectly despite losing momentum due to the ST.

 @Nikushima

 It's not getting repelled. Not when Hachibi while holding his Bijuudama (meaning lacks kinetic energy) still managed to push back the Bijuudama the Juubi was charging back into his throat and Hachibi still tanked the explosion. That's an impressive feat and should not be ignored.


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## Joakim3 (Mar 4, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> @Joakim
> 
> That's a good point though Bee himself was totally caught off-guard.
> 
> Even then, one can argue that Nagato was unable to react to V2 Bee's Lariat perfectly despite losing momentum due to the ST.



Kabuto was in control of Nagato at that point, so any and all of Gingers reactionary feats/movement/technique choices where Kabuto's doing. And even when controlled Nagato's was physically fast enough to evade Killer B's initial V2 swipe at him

Unless V2 B is faster than a SM thrown FRS from ~4m out (which an exhausted Nagato physically had a path jump over) I'd doubt a non-zombie Nagato couldn't react to it


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## Nikushimi (Mar 4, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 








Another counter to Bijuudama.


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 4, 2015)

Joakim3 said:


> Kabuto was in control of Nagato at that point, so any and all of Gingers reactionary feats/movement choice where Kabuto's doing.



 That doesn't mean Nagato wasn't capable of sensing the chakra that Bee built up while using his V2 Chakra Shroud. I'm going to assume all feats as Edo Tensei's should be ignored because Kabuto was controlling them all correct?



> Unless you think V2 B is faster than a SM thrown FRS from ~4m out (which an exhausted Nagato physically had a path jump over)



 I don't, but the distance between Bee and Nagato was vastly shorter as well as the fact that Naruto himself had more time to build up his chakra compared to Bee.


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## DaVizWiz (Mar 4, 2015)

Nikushimi said:


> Nagato can nullify that very simply with a Shinra Tensei powerful enough to break every bone in three boss summons' bodies simultaneously. While B is reeling from that, or a chakra cannon to the face, or fighting off one or two of Nagato's assorted summons, Nagato has plenty of time to put his hands together, throw a gravity well, and forget about it.
> 
> But basically B can't do shit as long as Nagato can flatten him with Shinra Tensei. Easiest way to create an opening for CT.


Are you suggesting he can nullify multiple Bijuudama with a reactionary Shinra Tensei? No, no he can not.

Are you further suggesting he can release a variant of Shinra Tensei that powerful while he's manifesting Chibaku Tensei? No, no he can not. 

BM Bee can literally slap the lot of his summons in a single maneuver, dozens of kilometers away. He caught the 3-tailed bijuu while he was spinning forward at BM Naruto- from multiple kilometers away. They don't just go out of the ball park- they get traded into a foreign league and are never heard from again. 

Anything short of CST isn't staggering BM Bee who ate his own bijuudama with limited injuries. He eats an initial ST with ease and machine guns mountain busting bijuudama at him before the orb is even floated above Nagato.


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## Nikushimi (Mar 4, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> @Nukishima



Ni-ku-shi-mi.



> It's not getting repelled. Not when Hachibi while holding his Bijuudama (meaning lacks kinetic energy) still managed to push back the Bijuudama the Juubi was charging back into his throat and Hachibi still tanked the explosion. That's an impressive feat and should not be ignored.



Pushing back the Juubi's Bijuudama before it detonates or even gains any velocity is not tantamount to stopping Shinra Tensei from a Nagato intent on putting a friend down.

I don't care if you're the guy working on a military base and pushing A-bombs around on a dolly. You are not standing in front of a moving semi and stopping it--you are getting run the fuck over.


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## Nikushimi (Mar 4, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> Are you suggesting he can nullify multiple Bijuudama with a reactionary Shinra Tensei? No, no he can not.



Yes he can and very easily. The instant B tries to fire them, Nagato can pulverize him; he's faster than B, and Shinra Tensei is faster than Bijuudama.

Or another alternative I just posted is Nagato can BT a giant boulder and smash it across B's face to redirect the Bijuudama harmlessly.

But simply preempting him with a direct Shinra Tensei is just as good.



> Are you further suggesting he can release a variant of Shinra Tensei that powerful while he's manifesting Chibaku Tensei? No, no he can not.



Who said anything about using them at the same time? He's perfectly capable of performing Shinra Tensei and then casting Chibaku Tensei moments later; he did it when he fought Itachi and his worthless tag-alongs.



> BM Bee can literally slap the lot of his summons in a single maneuver, dozens of kilometers away. He caught the 3-tailed bijuu while he was spinning forward at BM Naruto- from multiple kilometers away. They don't just go out of the ball park- they get traded into a foreign league.



And in that time Nagato has cast Chibaku Tensei, which is all he needs those summons for.



> Anything short of CST isn't staggering BM Bee who ate his own bijuudama with limited injuries. He eats an initial ST with ease and machine guns mountain busting bijuudama at him before the orb is even floated above Nagato.



Like he did in the manga, right?

No.

Nagato pushes B's shit in with a _*casual*_ Shinra Tensei, then turns him into a moon.


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 4, 2015)

Nikushimi said:


> Ni-ku-shi-mi.



 Even after my edit, I got it wrong. Please forgive me lord Nikushimi. 





> Pushing back the Juubi's Bijuudama before it detonates or even gains any velocity is not tantamount to stopping Shinra Tensei from a Nagato intent on putting a friend down.



 It actually does. KN6 Naruto is not comparable in durability compared to the Hachibi and his power output is dwarfed by both the Juubi and the Hachibi which the latter managed to push the former's Bijuudama down it's throat somewhat which is still impressive.



> I don't care if you're the guy working on a military base and pushing A-bombs around on a dolly. You are not standing in front of a moving semi and stopping it--you are getting run the fuck over.



 So how is a small boulder stopping the Hachibi from firing a Bijuudama that can blow up Nagato considering the Hachibi can tank it's own Bijuudama? KN6 Naruto was mostly a mindless beast. BM Bee is not, so he's bitchslapping that boulder with his tentacles with ease and slappin' a Bijuudama up Nagato's ass.


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## Joakim3 (Mar 5, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> That doesn't mean Nagato wasn't capable of sensing the chakra that Bee built up while using his V2 Chakra Shroud.



Nagato's sensing isn't passive like Karen or SM Naruto, it's active in the terms he actually has to put effort into it (which he can't do that if his mind is erased)



NarutoX28 said:


> I'm going to assume all feats as Edo Tensei's should be ignored because Kabuto was controlling them all correct?



There is a different level of control Kabuto exerts on his Edo's

He has an auto-pilot mode i.e Diedara, Madara, Sasori, Kazekage, Kimimaro etc.. in which they are linked to his chakra but he is not controlling their every action

Then his has the uber zombie mode, in which he kills the Edo's personality and directly takes control of their actions i.e 3rd Kazekage, Mu & Nagato



NarutoX28 said:


> I don't, but the distance between Bee and Nagato was vastly shorter as well as the fact that Naruto himself had more time to build up his chakra compared to Bee.



Killer B was about 2-3m from Nagato when he antiquated his V2 Lariat, so while shorter... it doesn't make up for the sheer reaction gap that Nagato lacked compared to his Paths


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 5, 2015)

Joakim3 said:


> Nagato's sensing isn't passive like Karen or SM Naruto, it's active in the terms he actually has to put effort into it (which he can't do that if his mind is erased)



 Karin's sensing isn't passive.

 SM Naruto's admittedly is, so that's a fair point.

 Though Nagato unable to activate his sensing before V2 Bee struck him really puts Nagato in a bad position doesn't it?




> There is a different level of control Kabuto exerts on his Edo's
> 
> He has an auto-pilot mode i.e Diedara, Madara, Sasori, Kazekage, Kimimaro etc.. in which they are linked to his chakra but he is not controlling their every action
> 
> Then his has the uber zombie mode, in which he kills the Edo's personality and directly takes control of their actions i.e 3rd Kazekage, Mu & Nagato



 True.





> Killer B was about 2-3m from Nagato when he antiquated his V2 Lariat, so while shorter... it doesn't make up for the sheer reaction gap that Nagato lacked compared to his Paths



It likely does. The distance is clearly shown to be fairly big in comparison. Pain had plenty of time to react to Naruto's attack considering he could clearly see Naruto building up his chakra and the farther distance helps Pain more.

 V2 Bee however built up his chakra far quicker and was at a much closer distance. I'd say it does make up for the gap IMO. 

 But I originally wasn't using this as an argument. I was just mentioning that one could argue that Nagato was unable to react to Bee in this instance even after Bee was caught totally off-guard by a surprise ST.


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## ARGUS (Mar 5, 2015)

Nagato wins this high diff 

 -- Hachibi mode isnt a problem,, when a boss sized ST would repel and deflect his TBB right back at his face, and using TBB barrages is just suicide, when anymore than one TBB is dealing severe damage to bee, forcing him to revert out of his hachibi which is obviously GG 

 -- Boss sized ST is definitely repelling a TBB, especially when we saw BM narutos mere human strength being strong enough to repel them away, and now we have a force that repelled enormous toads over a kilometre away through sheer push, no reason to believe why this force wont work, so bee dies

 -- using a BT boulder to slam the TBB right at bee is also a good way to injure him, and the starting distance of 10m only makes this worse as stated by davizwiz 

 --  using a V2 or any other form is suicide, when preta alone leaves him defenseless, absorbs his shroud  followeed by shurado restraining hiim and shooting a missile in his head, using ningendo is also a good short cut


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## Icegaze (Mar 5, 2015)

how about bee sealing technique. in the Db its said he can create 1000 ink clones. he can keep those coming at nagato. 
also useful to seal away cerebrus 

i am surprised no one has mentioned gedo mazo. it isnt restricted here. 

nagato wins but with mid to high difficulty 

as for ST being able to repel BD barrage well thats not impossible, also note bee can avoid his own BD when they are returned to him. then simply fire another during the cool down 

preta path can only absorb so many BD before numbing nagato

do note in chakra capacity hachibi+bee>>>>>>nagato 


they can wear him down. it isnt such an easy battle


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## sanninme rikudo (Mar 5, 2015)

Wow lol, He has Gedo Mazo here too? Then Nagato is definitely taking it. ST repels TBB right back at him, which will continuously injure him depending on how many he wants to fire. Then on top of that he has several other Summonings on the field. With Hachibi's firepower going against him as well as GM's firepower, Shurado's fire Power and Boss size ST or CST Nagato's victory is inevitable.

I'm giving Bee the benefit of the doubt by brining out Hachibi at the start of the match (since he's BL of course) because any other attempt Bee makes that isn't with full Hachibi is trivial.


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## Icegaze (Mar 5, 2015)

Sannime it isnt that easy. SST is a replusive force which repels whatever is close to it outwards. 

now if bee fires 1 BD and nagato repels it bee can  then fire a barrage at nagato and unless nagato gets really lucky could die. because he cant absorb 5 BD coming at him. 

if he did it would numb him. since he seals the chakra within his own body 

GM fire power??? this is the half body GM nagato summoned against hanzo. it doesnt have much fightign power. 

shurado fire power is dam near insignificant when compared to the hachibi's 

CST gets the BD spam treatment. that is laughably countered by anyone with the ability to use BD 

i agree anything bar full hachibi would be wasting nagato time. 

As for summons, bee ink sealing jutsu is described as being able to create 1000 clones to seal armies

that can be used against all of nagato summons bar GM


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## Arles Celes (Mar 5, 2015)

It all comes down to whether Preta can abosrb bijuudamas.

If it can...Hachibi is screwed.

If not then it all comes down to deflecting them with CST.

A normal ST was able to knock down 3 boss summons so it can caused decent damage to even durable opponents. Hachibi can survive his own bijuudama but was quite wounded after that and unable to fight anymore in that state.

Depends how many CSTs can Nagato pull off. And how much damage can they inflict when compared to a bijuudama. Given that it is Nagato's real body this time the jutsu will probably be even stronger.


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## Icegaze (Mar 5, 2015)

@Arles preta can no reason it cant absorb BD

the issue is preta limit is the amount of chakra nagato can hold within himself. since he is absorbing the ninjutsu 

we have already seen sealing too much chakra into a body can numb it. like with minato against the kyuubi 

Now hachibi chakra levels vastly exceed that of nagato so hachibi can keep firing long after nagato chakra limit has been exceeded. 

ST is only going to damage hachibi if hachibi doesnt anchor itself down we already saw Kn6 deflect ST. 

why cant hachibi do that?

regardless of how strong ST is. the core can be nuked with BD. 

hachibi has more BD in him than nagato has of CT


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## Bonly (Mar 5, 2015)

Nagato would win more times then not. Nagato can pretty much troll B for most of the time as Preta path,Asura path, and Deva path helps him deal with B when not in Bijuu Mode as if he was nothing. So unless B goes Bijuu Mode right off the bat he's pretty screwed but if B does go Bijuu Mode then Nagato can bring out some summonings along with the Gedo and use them as a distraction to get close to B and take him out


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## Arles Celes (Mar 5, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> @Arles preta can no reason it cant absorb BD
> 
> the issue is preta limit is the amount of chakra nagato can hold within himself. since he is absorbing the ninjutsu
> 
> ...



Wasn't the Minato case kinda retconned? He did not have any trouble with it once resurrected. And he still could move to protect his son after having Kurama sealed when alive.

Besides, the entire chakra of 50% Kurama>>>plenty of Hachibi's bijuudamas IMO.

And Nagato can simply spam CST whenever his chakra tank gets to full. With Hachibi endlessly refilling his chakra Nagato can spam extremely taxing ninjutsu without trouble. Since its his real body now Nagato might no longer be limited by a recharge time. Like how he needed Deva to get close to him to use CT. Or he can simply use Ashura path to unleash tons of nukes with such endless chakra refill...

As for Hachibi doing what Kn6 did it depends. ST is extremely fast and if Hachibi does not figure out how to defend against it right away then it will be blown away. The attack is very fast and invisible.

Besides Kn6 Naruto for some weird reason seemed to know about ST and how to defend against it by anchoring itself BEFORE Deva's ST reached him.
(3)

The "push" effect only seemed to take effect on the right lower panel.


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## Icegaze (Mar 5, 2015)

I don't see why u would compare a human body to ET. Fairly dissapointing 
Preta path against SM naruto already showed that if the user can't handle the chakra absorbed it would have negative effects 

Nagato hasn't shown the ability to spam CT

I don't know why he would be able to spam it here all of a sudden. As for refilling Nagato chakra tank with BD that's entirely possible . Can't argue that one . 

I know Nagato wins but high difficulty


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## sabre320 (Mar 5, 2015)

by portrayal nagato was portrayed above bee but later bee got better portrayal and feats problem is once bee go,s bm nagato cant put him down..cst might have a shot i guess...but bijudama barrage overwhelms nagato he might absorb one but 4 or five in a volley that a bit oo much especially when aimed around him..and demolishes ct..


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## sanninme rikudo (Mar 5, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> Sannime it isnt that easy. SST is a replusive force which repels whatever is close to it outwards.
> 
> now if bee fires 1 BD and nagato repels it bee can  then fire a barrage at nagato and unless nagato gets really lucky could die. because he cant absorb 5 BD coming at him.
> 
> ...


Of course it won't be easy. Going against Tailed Beasts are never easy.
However Nagato also has the variant of ST in which he can sustain the barrier to repel attacks.
We already got a taste of an emaciated Nagato's ridiculous chakra levels. CST that expunged Konaha, capturing Naruto, using several STs, dividing his chakra between 6 bodies, an ST that soloed 3 huge Toads (one of them who actually temporarily pinned down Kurama) using CT that he said he could have made bigger. Then reviving everyone he killed at the end to top it off etc. I don't believe 5 Bjuudama would numb him

If a regular ST from Pain recieving chakra from a far away emaciated Nagato soloed 3 huge toads im sure a CST from a healthy Nagato will not go down due to several Bjuudama.

I feel as if by the time he thinks to seal cerberus there would have already been countless of them on the field due to them splitting from attacks.


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## Icegaze (Mar 5, 2015)

sanninme rikudo said:


> Of course it won't be easy. Going against Tailed Beasts are never easy.
> However Nagato also has the variant of ST in which he can sustain the barrier to repel attacks.
> We already got a taste of an emaciated Nagato's ridiculous chakra levels. CST that expunged Konaha, capturing Naruto, using several STs, dividing his chakra between 6 bodies, an ST that soloed 3 huge Toads (one of them who actually temporarily pinned down Kurama) using CT that he said he could have made bigger. Then reviving everyone he killed at the end to top it off etc. I don't believe 5 Bjuudama would numb him
> 
> ...



please do show me this magic ST variant you just invented in the manga. i would like to see it. 
BD spam would level konoha 

my point was hachibi reserves>>>>nagato . so hachibi can keep spamming 

there is nothing like CST. its simply using more chakra for a ST. CST is NF made up. 

hachibi is smart. the second the dog splits once hachibi will know he has to stop its movements. 

he dechipered kisame water shark dance jutsu very quickly


*off topic: i just watched a terrible terrible filler episode. with killer bee. apparently samehada absorbed a tailed beast bomb. hahaaha. i almost died. that was soooooo pooor. what a shit episode*


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## sanninme rikudo (Mar 5, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> please do show me this magic ST variant you just invented in the manga. i would like to see it.
> BD spam would level konoha
> 
> my point was hachibi reserves>>>>nagato . so hachibi can keep spamming
> ...


Reread the Naruto vs Pain fight. When Naruto turns 6 tails and starts firing attacks at Pain he holds up a repelling barrier. In no way is it invented by me.

Yea, but Nagato is taking in chakra so when if it becomes too much to hold which i don't believe so, can't he just output more chakra in an attack like a powerful ST. He can use multiple paths at a time so i don't see why it shouldn't work.

I know, i personally most NF terms but if its what people understand and are use to then it's whatever.

If Bee's only method to put down Nagato is to repeatedly spam BD's then Nagato can keep outputting max powered ST's knowing that he has buffets of BD's to absorb. Plus Asura isn't going to be completely useless, as when couple flight with Asura's jet Boosters that can help with evading.


And lmaoo fillers can be horrendous at times


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## Icegaze (Mar 5, 2015)

> sanninme rikudo said:
> 
> 
> > Reread the Naruto vs Pain fight. When Naruto turns 6 tails and starts firing attacks at Pain he holds up a repelling barrier. In no way is it invented by me.
> ...


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## sanninme rikudo (Mar 5, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> > read it. this never happened.
> >
> >
> >
> ...


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## LostSelf (Mar 5, 2015)

Nikushimi said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I was going to post something like this .

Bee loses here. The only way he can give Nagato a hard fight is going full Bijuu right of the bat. However, even in BM, i don't see Bee defeating Nagato.

While Bee gets weaker, Nagato is getting stronger. And if Samehada, a weaker chakra draining method than Preta, could quickly drain almost all of Hachibi's chakra and all of Bee's, the Kumo nin faces a terrible fate.


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## Icegaze (Mar 5, 2015)

sanninme rikudo said:


> Icegaze said:
> 
> 
> > That ability has been displayed several times. Another time is when he held up the barrier to reflect Hanzo's kunais.
> ...


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## sanninme rikudo (Mar 5, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> sanninme rikudo said:
> 
> 
> > jesus thats not a barrier. he simply repelled them like any other time ST was used. all kunai were thrown at once. also hanzo didnt throw them. hanzo hench men threw them all at once.
> ...


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 5, 2015)

sanninme rikudo said:


> Reread the Naruto vs Pain fight. When Naruto turns 6 tails and starts firing attacks at Pain he holds up a repelling barrier. In no way is it invented by me.



 And what is that Shinra Tensei going to do once Hachibi sticks his tentacles in the ground to repel the force back at him? That's right, Bijuudama spam.


----------



## Icegaze (Mar 6, 2015)

sanninme rikudo said:


> Icegaze said:
> 
> 
> > In no way was that a normal ST if it was the Kunais would have been deflected way before it got in contact with that gravitation barrier. But instead when it came in contact with the barrier that's when they were deflected.
> ...


----------



## LostSelf (Mar 6, 2015)

Nagato's legs, after absorbing Bee's chakra, were strong enough to hold his own weight and the Bee's. He also moved towards Naruto by himself.

So inmobile he wasn't.


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## Joakim3 (Mar 6, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> well the chameleon is that fast.
> 
> you know whats even more impossible. a character characterized as immobile being able to suddenly use shunshin



If the chameleon was that fast why would Kabuto have Nagato leave it's safety knowing full he's not as mobile as he used. Second _if_ the Chameleon was fast enough to actively blitz someone like Killer B..... Then Nagato fodderizes Gyuki by spam camping boss sized ST's while invisible running circles around any of B's attempts to hit him

Second point....

Nagato's body isn't like regular peoples... He's like Karin, Kushina and to a degree Naruto, in that due to their Uzumaki lineage, their bodies are more resistant to injures/weakness than normal peoples. Karin shouldn't have been able to intercept Kurama, when she had a biju ripped out of her and just had child birth yet she managed it. Uzumaki have haxed and OP bodies

Nagato while emaciated was still able to stand and move on his own (even after the Gedo Mazo incident and Hanzo's exploding tags ripping his legs to meat sticks), even as an Edo he still was capable of getting on top of the statue with Itachi and jumping back to avoid Killer B's V2 strike while emaciated

He was fully capable of moving but his movements where hampered enough that he figured trying  actively participate in combat was impossibe without it being a liability (i.e the creation of the _Pein Rikudo_)


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## Icegaze (Mar 6, 2015)

Joakim3 said:


> If the chameleon was that fast why would Kabuto have Nagato leave it's safety knowing full he's not as mobile as he used. Second _if_ the Chameleon was fast enough to actively blitz someone like Killer B..... Then Nagato fodderizes Gyuki by spam camping boss sized ST's while invisible running circles around any of B's attempts to hit him
> 
> Second point....
> 
> ...



Nice speech 
Kabuto called him immobile 
He used his animal to transport himself 
He wasn't capable of shunshin 
His summon got him there 
The end


----------



## Joakim3 (Mar 6, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> Nice speech
> Kabuto called him immobile
> He used his animal to transport himself
> He wasn't capable of shunshin
> ...



Um no he didn't.... Snake charmer said he _lacked mobility_, thats a LOT different than being immobile.

A clam lacks mobility (and even they are capable of rapid movement), A tree is immobile (see the difference)

Again if Nagato was _immobile_ Itachi would've have had to drag him by the collar to the battlefield. The only time Nagato had to be carried was by Kakuzu, because he couldn't run at the pace of a normal ninja for a consistent time when the Edo's were initially deployed

The fact Nagato was actively walking (even if it was with Itachi's support) completely throws your argument out the window


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## ShadoLord (Mar 6, 2015)

Nagato wins no matter how I see it.

Bee and Naruto was having trouble with an Edo-tensei Nagato.


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## Icegaze (Mar 6, 2015)

Joakim3 said:


> Um no he didn't.... Snake charmer said he _lacked mobility_, thats a LOT different than being immobile.
> 
> A clam lacks mobility (and even they are capable of rapid movement), A tree is immobile (see the difference)
> 
> ...



So as U said someone who couldn't sctively run and needed kakuzu to carry him is capable of shunshin ?? Seriously 

Lacking mobility implies U can't use shunshin. It's high speed movement 
He used the summon to get behind bee 

It's not rocket science


----------



## UchihaX28 (Mar 6, 2015)

Joakim3 said:


> Um no he didn't.... Snake charmer said he _lacked mobility_, thats a LOT different than being immobile.



 Really? He needed Itachi to help him move and he never once showed any mobility feats at all after he did restore his chakra.



> A clam lacks mobility (and even they are capable of rapid movement), A tree is immobile (see the difference)



 Works both ways. Lacking mobility could mean movement, but very slow movement. You haven't proven how Nagato was capable of rapid movement, so I rest my case.



> Again if Nagato was _immobile_ Itachi would've have had to drag him by the collar to the battlefield. The only time Nagato had to be carried was by Kakuzu, because he couldn't run at the pace of a normal ninja for a consistent time when the Edo's were initially deployed



 No, Itachi was also walking slowly while having to carry Nagato. Nagato was crippled and couldn't even move.



> The fact Nagato was actively walking (even if it was with Itachi's support) completely throws your argument out the window



 You do realize needing help just to walk means you're incapable of rapid movement correct?


----------



## ARGUS (Mar 6, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> how about bee sealing technique. in the Db its said he can create 1000 ink clones. he can keep those coming at nagato.
> also useful to seal away cerebrus


The ink clones can only seal if they attach themselves 
one ST alone would get rid of all the surrounding ink clones, 
its rather useless to use this 


> i am surprised no one has mentioned gedo mazo. it isnt restricted here.


NAgato cant control the GM properly. its only wasting his chakra and time here 


> nagato wins but with mid to high difficulty
> 
> as for ST being able to repel BD barrage well thats not impossible, also note bee can avoid his own BD when they are returned to him. then simply fire another during the cool down


Bee doesnt have the physicaly means to avoid his own TBB, especially when they would be tossed back extremely fast by a large force such as ST which had the power to repel multiple tonne summons over a kilometre away within a mere second 


> preta path can only absorb so many BD before numbing nagato


Preta should definitely be able to absorb one TBB
that amount of chakra is not numbing nagato, 

half kyuubis chakra >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one TBB ffrom hachibi 
nagatos reserves >>>> minatos 
just because half kyuubis chakra numbed minato, doesnt mean in any way shape or form that absorbing one TBB would numb nagato 



> do note in chakra capacity hachibi+bee>>>>>>nagato


The gap is nowhere near as large as what youre stating it out to be 
nagatos reserves are ridiculously high,
hell even chars such as AY and Kisame have been stated to have bijuu level reserves, 
and nagato is comparable to them 

the amount of chakra in one TBB isnt even close to the complete quantity of chakra that a bijuu possesses 



> they can wear him down. it isnt such an easy battle


preta feeds nagato alot of chakra, outlasting is not really an option here 
and the only hope that Bee has is TBB,but those get tossed back at nagato, 
one TBB alone would severely injure the hachibi and aftre that, bee is done for 



Icegaze said:


> @Arles preta can no reason it cant absorb BD


yeah but anything more than one TBB, seems abit too far fetched 
because then we are getting to no limts fallacy 


> the issue is preta limit is the amount of chakra nagato can hold within himself. since he is absorbing the ninjutsu


Yeah this has been addressed, 
one TBB is not numbing him 


> we have already seen sealing too much chakra into a body can numb it. like with minato against the kyuubi


already addressed above why this doesnt hold much validity 


> *Now hachibi chakra levels vastly exceed that of nagato* so hachibi can keep firing long after nagato chakra limit has been exceeded.


the gap is not that large 
if hachibi fires 4 of them, then a boss sized ST tosses them back and bee gets eradicated 



> ST is only going to damage hachibi if hachibi doesnt anchor itself down we already saw Kn6 deflect ST.
> 
> why cant hachibi do that?


THe ST that KN6 deflected was nothing, 
not  to mention that its not ST thats damaging hachbi here, its his own TBB that will be backfired at him, 
we have already seen that one TBB severely injures hachibi, and forces him to revert to his human state which = GG 



> regardless of how strong ST is. the core can be nuked with BD.
> 
> hachibi has more BD in him than nagato has of CT



Lol CT is not needed here, why even mention here, since it gets nuked before it does shit


----------



## Icegaze (Mar 7, 2015)

ARGUS said:


> The ink clones can only seal if they attach themselves
> one ST alone would get rid of all the surrounding ink clones,
> its rather useless to use this



but bee can make 1000's the 5 second time interval will be exploited, didnt  just a few kage bunshin by simply standing behind each other resist it.  bee would make a swarm of them and they will keep coming at him 



> NAgato cant control the GM properly. its only wasting his chakra and time here



agreed 



> Bee doesnt have the physicaly means to avoid his own TBB, especially when they would be tossed back extremely fast by a large force such as ST which had the power to repel multiple tonne summons over a kilometre away within a mere second



bee was a good distance from BM naruto when juubi dama was shot he was able to get to BM naruto before the blast reached them. Also he covered a good distance when he got blocked by obito fire flame wall 




> Preta should definitely be able to absorb one TBB
> that amount of chakra is not numbing nagato,



hachibi can fire 5 at a time. he is certainly capable of spamming them 



> half kyuubis chakra >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one TBB ffrom hachibi
> nagatos reserves >>>> minatos
> just because half kyuubis chakra numbed minato, doesnt mean in any way shape or form that absorbing one TBB would numb nagato



i never said absorbing one TBB would numb nagato. however absorbing several would. 
hachibi reserves>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nagato. 



> The gap is nowhere near as large as what youre stating it out to be
> nagatos reserves are ridiculously high,
> hell even chars such as AY and Kisame have been stated to have bijuu level reserves,
> and nagato is comparable to them



kisame is also stated to have the most chakra in akatsuki. kisame reserves are above nagato. my point stands 



> the amount of chakra in one TBB isnt even close to the complete quantity of chakra that a bijuu possesses



depends on the TBB used. nothing stops hachibi from sending a few regular ones. then super charging one 



> preta feeds nagato alot of chakra, outlasting is not really an option here
> and the only hope that Bee has is TBB,but those get tossed back at nagato,
> one TBB alone would severely injure the hachibi and aftre that, bee is done for



bee can avoid his TBB



> yeah but anything more than one TBB, seems abit too far fetched
> because then we are getting to no limts fallacy



why would that be getting into no limit fallacy? didnt u already place a fictional limit by assuming preta can absorb it in the first place



> Yeah this has been addressed,
> one TBB is not numbing him
> 
> already addressed above why this doesnt hold much validity
> ...



you are assuming nagato St is capable of sending back 4 BD. panel evidence please. because those are meant to be dense. and if nagato uses ST to push them back. bee sends another one immediately to have them explode closer to nagato than to himself 



> THe ST that KN6 deflected was nothing,
> not  to mention that its not ST thats damaging hachbi here, its his own TBB that will be backfired at him,
> we have already seen that one TBB severely injures hachibi, and forces him to revert to his human state which = GG



yes going back to human form would be GG




> Lol CT is not needed here, why even mention here, since it gets nuked before it does shit


[/QUOTE]

agrred


----------



## ARGUS (Mar 7, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> but bee can make 1000's the 5 second time interval will be exploited, didnt  just a few kage bunshin by simply standing behind each other resist it.  bee would make a swarm of them and they will keep coming at him


The ink clones have shown no combat ability and, they are only useful once the target is restrained, which bee isnt doing here 

as for KB, well that was done only once and only because naruto was completely surrounded by his clones, which helped his clones hold him and brace the impact, 
there is also the fact that the ST which was used was very small 




> agreed
> 
> bee was a good distance from BM naruto when juubi dama was shot he was able to get to BM naruto before the blast reached them. Also he covered a good distance when he got blocked by obito fire flame wall


doesnt prove that he could evade TBB, not at all, 
even if he tries to move away, the blast wave would still get him and injure him severely 



> hachibi can fire 5 at a time. he is certainly capable of spamming them


No onlly 4 of them,  



> i never said absorbing one TBB would numb nagato. however absorbing several would.
> hachibi reserves>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nagato.


again the gap is  nowhere near as large as whhat youre claiming it out to be 
he isnt absorbing several either, whats the point when he can use ST something thats much faster and something thats actually hurting bee here, 

no need to use preta here 




> kisame is also stated to have the most chakra in akatsuki. kisame reserves are above nagato. my point stands


Again, you need to prove why nagatos reserves are soo less that absorbing chakra from bee is numbing him, 
kisames reserves were stated to be above devas, who is only 1/6th of nagatos puppets 
nagato himself >>> deva 



> depends on the TBB used. nothing stops hachibi from sending a few regular ones. then super charging one


yeah he fires one,... gets tossed back at him, and he is forced to revert to his human state 
firing TBB is not helping him, 
if he attempts to fire another one during the time the TBB is coming at him, then its not happening either, not when TBB would travel before he charges up another one, and when the collision of TBB would be much much closer to bee than to nagato who can absorb the outer explosion 




> bee can avoid his TBB


No he cant, 
his speed is nowhere near enough to suggest that he could do such thing 



> why would that be getting into no limit fallacy? didnt u already place a fictional limit by assuming preta can absorb it in the first place


Absorbing one TBB =/= Absorbing multiple of them and all of hachibis chakra, 




> you are assuming nagato St is capable of sending back 4 BD. panel evidence please. because those are meant to be dense. and if nagato uses ST to push them back. bee sends another one immediately to have them explode closer to nagato than to himself


BM narutos human strength was enough to repel away 5 TBB quite far away, 
deva paths ST sent multiple tonne worth boss toads over a kilometre away within a second, 
nagatos ST >> devas, 
so he definitely does it, 

as for beee sending another one, that is not happening, as explained above,, 
the TBB would come at his face before he does anything at all, and even  if he manages to fire off another one, the bombs explode and bee would be taking it head on, 

using continous TBB is even worse since they would be fired in rapid succession and a large scale ST would repel all of them right back at him, and that is something which bee has no hopes of surviving  

using a BT boulder to intercept Bees TBB and making it explode at his face is also a good and easy strategy, since its faster and keeps the explosion directly to hachibi, 




> yes going back to human form would be GG



agrred[/QUOTE]

Lol yeah


----------



## Icegaze (Mar 7, 2015)

ARGUS said:


> The ink clones have shown no combat ability and, they are only useful once the target is restrained, which bee isnt doing here



yet had the speed to seal 6 jinchuriki's with sharingan and rinnegan who had all gotten up btw and tried to defend themselves 



> as for KB, well that was done only once and only because naruto was completely surrounded by his clones, which helped his clones hold him and brace the impact,
> there is also the fact that the ST which was used was very small



1000 clones are alot more than the ones naruto had. his ink clones could do the same i dont see why not. also Db doesnt describe the clones as having lower combat abilities than KB



> doesnt prove that he could evade TBB, not at all,
> even if he tries to move away, the blast wave would still get him and injure him severely



if TBB is reflected back at him. it wont go off till it makes contact with bee. i have already explained why bee can avoid a condensed ball of chakra 



> No onlly 4 of them,
> 
> 
> again the gap is  nowhere near as large as whhat youre claiming it out to be
> he isnt absorbing several either, whats the point when he can use ST something thats much faster and something thats actually hurting bee here,



there is a gap and its a big one. nagato was never described as having bijuu reserves and said kisame has more chakra than him. the end. hachibi has more chakra. 



> no need to use preta here



5 second cool down says other wise 



> Again, you need to prove why nagatos reserves are soo less that absorbing chakra from bee is numbing him,
> kisames reserves were stated to be above devas, who is only 1/6th of nagatos puppets
> nagato himself >>> deva



. they were stated to be above nagato's not devas wow dont make shit up to try have a point. thats sad 



> yeah he fires one,... gets tossed back at him, and he is forced to revert to his human state
> firing TBB is not helping him,
> if he attempts to fire another one during the time the TBB is coming at him, then its not happening either, not when TBB would travel before he charges up another one, and when the collision of TBB would be much much closer to bee than to nagato who can absorb the outer explosion



again ur being slow. bee can move away from a condensed ball of chakra. if it doesnt hit bee. it wont go off. no blast radius to avoid 



> No he cant,
> his speed is nowhere near enough to suggest that he could do such thing



yet he could get to naruto before juubi dama laser hit them. yh bee is slow 



> Absorbing one TBB =/= Absorbing multiple of them and all of hachibis chakra,



so in short u invented a limit on preta path. ok 



> BM narutos human strength was enough to repel away 5 TBB quite far away,
> deva paths ST sent multiple tonne worth boss toads over a kilometre away within a second,
> nagatos ST >> devas,
> so he definitely does it,



BM naruto=/= nagato. i dont get the comparison. multiple tonne summon. give me a break. i dont see how that helps his case. he could send multiple tonne summon but not KN6 who is much smaller and lighter than them. see how that works 

1 send one, u repel i send another. 5 second cool down means he cant repel the next coming his way 



> as for beee sending another one, that is not happening, as explained above,,
> the TBB would come at his face before he does anything at all, and even  if he manages to fire off another one, the bombs explode and bee would be taking it head on,



yes because bee couldnt make 5 in one panel. sure thing 



> using continous TBB is even worse since they would be fired in rapid succession and a large scale ST would repel all of them right back at him, and that is something which bee has no hopes of surviving



never said continous TBB. firing one forcing him to repel then firing again. means it explodes again closer to nagato. what u are implying is nagato can repel a BD and it would get to hachibi before hachibi can fire another one which is entirely stupid. considering bee could fire 5 in one panel 



> using a BT boulder to intercept Bees TBB and making it explode at his face is also a good and easy strategy, since its faster and keeps the explosion directly to hachibi,



u would have to prove its faster than bee making a TBB. which it isnt. 


agrred[/QUOTE]

Lol yeah[/QUOTE]

*Do note. i know nagato wins. just arguign with some of the finer points which arent making sense*


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 7, 2015)

Hachibi's Bijuudama won't detonate instantly if it makes contact with Bee considering the Juubi just finger flicked Hachibi's Bijuudama back at him and it didn't detonate instantly. If Hachibi does time it right, even if a Bijuudama is repelled back towards him (which is unlikely considering it couldn't direct Naruto's FRS back at him), then Hachibi can just use his AoE that can destroy a massive forest and flick it back at Nagato. 

 Of course, that depends on distance. If Nagato is rather far, than it might detonate on Bee. If Nagato's close, then it likely won't.


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## Joakim3 (Mar 7, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> Really? He needed Itachi to help him move and he never once showed any mobility feats at all after he did restore his chakra.



He very much moved after being chakra restored when he blitzed a distracted Naruto with _Ningendo_ when he was caught by his chameleon 



NarutoX28 said:


> Works both ways. Lacking mobility could mean movement, but very slow movement. You haven't proven how Nagato was capable of rapid movement, so I rest my case.



I'd don't need to prove he's _capable_ of rapid movement, when he did such by jumping back and dodging Killer B's initial V2 strike before Killer B lariated him



NarutoX28 said:


> No, Itachi was also walking slowly while having to carry Nagato. Nagato was crippled and couldn't even move.



Nagato said "I can't move much on my own" "much" is very ambiguous when your average high-tier like Naruto or Killer B can causally jump several hundread meters with a _casual_ _Shunshin_, The most Nagato ever moved post ST blitz was ~5m to tag Naruto with _Ningendo_ (which would still be considered limited in relation to all the other people in the match)

Unless you think Itachi placed him on top of the pillar at the shrine they rested at or lifted him up onto of his boss sized summon, I'd think it's _safe_ assumption Nagato was capable of moving but not to the degree where he could actively keep pace with his opponents



NarutoX28 said:


> You do realize needing help just to walk means you're incapable of rapid movement correct?



Nagato's inability to walk stems for the muscular/mental dystrophy not physical damage (something that must have long healed ago as his legs where unscarred as an Edo), hell all of Nagato's movement feats where under Kabuto's direct control

This imho leads me to believe that Kabuto was capable of using Nagato's physical body better than Nagato could as the latter spent the last ~20 something years controlling the paths, as opposed to moving on his own accord (disregardless if his body was capable or not)


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## ARGUS (Mar 7, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> yet had the speed to seal 6 jinchuriki's with sharingan and rinnegan who had all gotten up btw and tried to defend themselves


they needed to be pushed back by whirlwind 
only then the ink clones were used, 




> 1000 clones are alot more than the ones naruto had. his ink clones could do the same i dont see why not. also Db doesnt describe the clones as having lower combat abilities than KB


Whhere are you getting this from? 1000 clones? how?  
missiles, multiple summons, and a single large scale ST poofs them completely, 
they are non factor at its finest 



> if TBB is reflected back at him. it wont go off till it makes contact with bee. i have already explained why bee can avoid a condensed ball of chakra


You really havnt  explained it, 
Bee has not shown the speed feats to evade something that travels a citys worth of distance wtihin a second, 
and he certainly cant evade its AOE, 
even if bee slightly moves away, the bomb makes contact with the surrounding ground, and goes off, resulting in bee getting caught and taken out 




> there is a gap and its a big one. nagato was never described as having bijuu reserves and said kisame has more chakra than him. the end. hachibi has more chakra.



No there really isnt, 
nagato used CST, CT, battled entire konoha, battled SM naruto, battled kyuubi, and all of this was done through his puppets which mind you is much harder, 
added to the fact that he ended up using RT on the entire konoha to save them, 
iif this isnt close to bijuu level reserves then god knows what is, 

hachibi having more chakra than nagato doesnt mean in any way shape or form that 
hachibi >>>>>>>>>>>> nagato, which is what youre stating it out to be 




> 5 second cool down says other wise


Not really, 
the bomb gets to bee and explodes before that even comes to the equation, 



> . they were stated to be above nagato's not devas wow dont make shit up to try have a point. thats sad


Already addressed above 




> again ur being slow. bee can move away from a condensed ball of chakra. if it doesnt hit bee. it wont go off. no blast radius to avoid


No, if it doesnt hit bee, then it hits the ground, and bee is caught in its AOE, 
getting back to squarre 1  where he gets nuked and taken out 

not to mention that yet again you  have shown no speed feats that he can evade a TBB coming at him that is pushed by an enormous force 




> yet he could get to naruto before juubi dama laser hit them. yh bee is slow


the juubi beam was aimed at naruto, not at bee, 
all bee did was a side step to get to naruto 
his mobility in his hachibi form is not enough 



> so in short u invented a limit on preta path. ok


No 



> BM naruto=/= nagato


never implied that it was 



> . i dont get the comparison. multiple tonne summon. give me a break. i dont see how that helps his case. he could send multiple tonne summon but not KN6 who is much smaller and lighter than them. see how that works


Again, it takes any one with common sense too understand the gap between the ST used on the  boss summons and the one used at KN6, 
the gap is enormous, 
resisting a much smaller force doesnt imply that he could resist every damn ST, no matter how powerful it is, 

as for TBB well, BM narutos human stregnth was enough to repel the bombs away, 
now we have a foorce that can send objects just as heavy, if not even heavier,, over a kilometre away, no reason to believe why it cant send them away,  and back at bees face, 
and now we have nagato himself using this, meaning that its not only stronger but would have shorter cool downs,, so he could do this much easier 



> 1 send one, u repel i send another. 5 second cool down means he cant repel the next coming his way


> 1 comes at you, 
> bee gets hit, before he could charge up another one, 

if bee manages to charge up another one, once he sees the bomb coming back at him, then chances are that itll be alot closer to him then to nagato, especially by the time the bomb is fired, 
the 2 bombs collide and bee is done for, given how he'll be well out of its AOE than nagato, 
who can absorb the minor outskirts of the explosion to keep himself safe 

> if he fires them off rapid succession, then ST sends them all back at bee and its GG 





> yes because bee couldnt make 5 in one panel. sure thing


Yeah, because manga  has showedd that the most amount that bee could send in a continous barrage is 4, 

so yeah manga >>>> you 



> never said continous TBB. firing one forcing him to repel then firing again. means it explodes again closer to nagato. what u are implying is nagato can repel a BD and it would get to hachibi before hachibi can fire another one which is entirely stupid. considering bee could fire 5 in one panel


No its noot, 
because firing off continous of them is alot faster than fiiring one,,,,, waiting,,, and then attempting to fire another one, 

bee can fire more sure, but the bomb would come at him and would be alot closer to him than nagato, so it afffects him worse 





> u would have to prove its faster than bee making a TBB. which it isnt.
> 
> agrred



addressed above 


> Lol yeah



*Do note. i know nagato wins. just arguign with some of the finer points which arent making sense*[/QUOTE]

I know that,,
but im  not seeing what you dont  understand


----------



## Transcendent Shinobi (Mar 7, 2015)

How has this thread dragged on for 3 pages?

Nagato absorbs everything Killer Bee throws at him and if Nagato wanted to end Bee fast which he probably would because he is no asshat like Madara he would just ST Bee into him and then rip out his soul.

And actually you can't even argue that bee could counter ST by attacking Nagato while he is STing him is because Nagato will just absorb it. Naruto made that mistake against Edo Tensei Nagato.

Oh and just to further my argument Nagato can use multiple path abilities at the same time like he did against Bee and Naruto. Killer Bee by himself has zero chance to win.


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## Icegaze (Mar 8, 2015)

@trans we all know that. read the posts before the entirely redundant comments 

@Argus 
i thought bee fired 5 in that panel and not 4. my bad. 

I give up. my only point has been while nagato wins its going to be one hell of a match


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## ARGUS (Mar 8, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> @trans we all know that. read the posts before the entirely redundant comments
> 
> @Argus
> i thought bee fired 5 in that panel and not 4. my bad.
> ...



Yeah nag?to wins high diff


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 8, 2015)

Joakim3 said:


> He very much moved after being chakra restored when he blitzed a distracted Naruto with _Ningendo_ when he was caught by his chameleon



 I don't recall Nagato moving in order to do that. He was stationary the whole time.





> I'd don't need to prove he's _capable_ of rapid movement, when he did such by jumping back and dodging Killer B's initial V2 strike before Killer B lariated him



 He never jumped back. His stance was completely the same and Bee needed to counter the momentum of Nagato's ST.





> Nagato said "I can't move much on my own" "much" is very ambiguous when your average high-tier like Naruto or Killer B can causally jump several hundread meters with a _casual_ _Shunshin_, The most Nagato ever moved post ST blitz was ~5m to tag Naruto with _Ningendo_ (which would still be considered limited in relation to all the other people in the match)



 He used Bansho Tenin to pull KCM Naruto towards him. It's made clear with the many small lines surrounding him.



> Unless you think Itachi placed him on top of the pillar at the shrine they rested at or lifted him up onto of his boss sized summon, I'd think it's _safe_ assumption Nagato was capable of moving but not to the degree where he could actively keep pace with his opponents



 Scan of the former situation?

 The latter situation doesn't prove anything. He summoned a Giant Bird directly beneath him, the same way Naruto did when he summoned Gamabunta against Gaara.




> Nagato's inability to walk stems for the muscular/mental dystrophy not physical damage (something that must have long healed ago as his legs where unscarred as an Edo), hell all of Nagato's movement feats where under Kabuto's direct control



 I fail to see how that implies Nagato didn't lack mobility esp. the former.

 Except those movement feats are done with Nagato's prior condition which he even admitted Nagato lacked mobility feats. Still, Kabuto's control still utilizes Nagato's reactions which is explains why Kabuto revives utterly strong villains to begin wtih.



> This imho leads me to believe that Kabuto was capable of using Nagato's physical body better than Nagato could as the latter spent the last ~20 something years controlling the paths, as opposed to moving on his own accord (disregardless if his body was capable or not)



 Well yeah considering Nagato wasn't revived in death-bed condition.

 Kabuto being capable of using Nagato's physical body better than Nagato could in his prime? That's never implied in the least. All that was implied is that he failed to revive his mobility. That's pretty much. I mean, Madara himself was revived at a fairly high level relative to his prime and we know Madara spent his last 20 years on his death-bed similar to Nagato yet nothing implied Kabuto would be capable of using Madara's physical body better than Madara himself.


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## LostSelf (Mar 8, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> I don't recall Nagato moving in order to do that. He was stationary the whole time.



He moved. When Naruto was caught by Chameleon, Nagato was too far from Naruto to touch him. And you see lines in Nagato, indicating swift movement.

Also, it wasn't BT. Those lines were representing Chameleon grabbing Naruto (Well, it wasn't the chameleon, it was a snake. I wonder where did that snake come from...)



Also, there's another possibility that Nagato was moving with Deva Path's powers.


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 8, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> He moved. When Naruto was caught by Chameleon, Nagato was too far from Naruto to touch him. And you see lines in Nagato, indicating swift movement.
> 
> Also, it wasn't BT. Those lines were representing Chameleon grabbing Naruto (Well, it wasn't the chameleon, it was a snake. I wonder where did that snake come from...)
> 
> ...



 Oh shit, never mind, just realized Nagato moved up the tree above.

 Well shit.

 But still, that doesn't imply Nagato is capable of rapid movement. All that implies is that he can move. Kabuto's remark on Nagato's mobility implies Nagato's lack of mobility did hinder him a lot and Kabuto hoped that the Rinnegan w/ the King of Hell and Animal Path's summons would be able to compensate for that. 

 But I guess it's possible Nagato moved with Deva Path's powers. Uses ST on the ground and conservation of momentum kicks in that pushes him upwards as a result. A possibility, but that would've likely been shown.


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## LostSelf (Mar 8, 2015)

He can levitate, probably can move like that. Or with Asura Path's rocket boost that can give him very good movement. One way or the other, he moved. And i doubt the chameleon could move as fast. Because that'd make the summon a speedester. A very decent one.


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 8, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> He can levitate, probably can move like that. Or with Asura Path's rocket boost that can give him very good movement. One way or the other, he moved. And i doubt the chameleon could move as fast. Because that'd make the summon a speedester. A very decent one.



 I haven't seen Deva Path ever give the user the ability to have himself levitate though I suppose he can just point his hand towards himself to do so.

 But yeah, Asura Path's Rocket Boost could allow him to do that.


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## ARGUS (Mar 9, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> *I haven't seen Deva Path ever give the user the ability to have himself levitate though* I suppose he can just point his hand towards himself to do so.
> 
> But yeah, Asura Path's Rocket Boost could allow him to do that.



Uhh No, deva path hhas already showed himself to be capable of levitating


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 9, 2015)

ARGUS said:


> Uhh No, deva path hhas already showed himself to be capable of levitating



 Well, that helps a lot then.


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## pluuuuffff (Mar 11, 2015)

Bee got raped on the manga, and Nagato was being controlled by Kabuto. 

This is a Nagato controlling himself, so, this means: Destruction.

People always talk about Bijuu Dama, and they always say that Shinra Tensei can't repel it. I believe it can. The Bijuu Dama isn't heavy than a Bijuu, and Kyuubi got knocked down by Gamabunta who got knocked back by the shinra tensei medium force. So, even knowing that the explosion from the bijuu dama affects a great area of effect, if he changes the trajetory (like naruto did kyuubi vs 5 bijuus), he can change the trajetory.

If u think that Nagato has no feats to do that, then I can't prove it. But he HAS feats.

About the Flash Bijuu Dama (5 bijuu damas simultaneously), he needs the CST to repel the bijuu too, and knock her down. I'm sure that a MAX-ST force is stronger than Madara's shadow taijutsu. It can't kill a Bijuu, but it can knock down her. By doing that, he can remove her soul, like a Shiki Fuujin, seal her with the Gedo's dragon, or chains (but he didn't show that, forget so), or drain all the chakra from the bijuu, like Kisame did v1, v2 and against the partial transformation.

I see no chances for Bee, actually. Even in low-distance, Nagato destroyed him, was faster than him, and countered him.


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## sabre320 (Mar 12, 2015)

whats nagatos counter to bee launching bijudama barrage in the general vicinity of nagato not at him the explosion will still kil lhim as he cant absorb it st will deflect one what about the others?


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## pluuuuffff (Mar 12, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> whats nagatos counter to bee launching bijudama barrage in the general vicinity of nagato not at him the explosion will still kil lhim as he cant absorb it st will deflect one what about the others?



He repels the Bijuu before he uses that. The Bijuu Dama is going to explode and he is going to interrupt him.

He can use BT like he did on 6 tails kyuubi..

Still, that's the best chance he has, using that jutsu.


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## sabre320 (Mar 13, 2015)

pluuuuffff said:


> He repels the Bijuu before he uses that. The Bijuu Dama is going to explode and he is going to interrupt him.
> 
> He can use BT like he did on 6 tails kyuubi..
> 
> Still, that's the best chance he has, using that jutsu.



kn6 anchored himself and delected st even if nagatos st is stronger bee is far above kn6 in strength and size he bitch slapped the 6tails a mile away..he uses st bee in bm is fazed but gets up before the 5sec cd and launches a bijudama barrage what then ?


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 13, 2015)

pluuuuffff said:


> Bee got raped on the manga, and Nagato was being controlled by Kabuto.
> 
> This is a Nagato controlling himself, so, this means: Destruction.



 Really? Nagato's performance against Hanzo suggests a reckless fighting style. 

 Obviously trolling there considering Nagato did become more adept with his Rinnegan to kill Hanzo with an inferior Pain. However, nothing implied that Kabuto's control over Nagato was worse than what Nagato could actually do. Moreso, Kabuto analyzed every situation and deem whether it would be important to control or allow some control for the ET he was using. The only reason he controlled Nagato was due to his relationship with Naruto and leaking out knowledge to the crew, but that doesn't imply neither could use Nagato's body better.

 But yeah, ST could only repel a Base Bee who was off-guard. Hachibi easily tanks this and if need be, digs his tentacles into the ground and repels the force back at Nagato.


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## Joakim3 (Mar 14, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> But yeah, ST could only repel a Base Bee who was off-guard. Hachibi easily tanks this and if need be, digs his tentacles into the ground and repels the force back at Nagato.



Hachibi gets raggdolled by Nagato's larger _Shinra Tensei_, considering he couldn't anchor himself from being dropped on his ass by Kokuo, who has *substantially* less power behind his impact than Tendo's boss sized _Shinra Tensei_ let alone something like CST 

People really don't understand what KN6 withstood was literally a _fodder_ _Shinra Tensei_ on the scale of ST power


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## pluuuuffff (Mar 14, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> Really? Nagato's performance against Hanzo suggests a reckless fighting style.
> 
> Obviously trolling there considering Nagato did become more adept with his Rinnegan to kill Hanzo with an inferior Pain. However, nothing implied that Kabuto's control over Nagato was worse than what Nagato could actually do. Moreso, Kabuto analyzed every situation and deem whether it would be important to control or allow some control for the ET he was using. The only reason he controlled Nagato was due to his relationship with Naruto and leaking out knowledge to the crew, but that doesn't imply neither could use Nagato's body better.
> 
> But yeah, ST could only repel a Base Bee who was off-guard. Hachibi easily tanks this and if need be, digs his tentacles into the ground and repels the force back at Nagato.



Everytime u talk u make me laugh.

So, in ur opinion Kabuto's performance with Rinnegan is the same than Nagato's, that used his eye the entire life?

Kabuto didn't know about Nagato's sensor, didn't react against the Susano'o after the Chibaku Tensei, and not only that, when he used Muu he didn't even know that he couldn't use Jinton in a "half-stage".

Kabuto has a "knowledge" about every Edo Tensei technique, but he can't performe like the originals. It's like saying that Nagato's performance with Rinnegan is the same than Madara (what is a lie, Madara's >>>>>> Nagato).

Also, again, ur underestimating Shinra Tensei. The only one who got tanked was a "normal" one, not even close to the one who repelled 3 frogs (same size than Bijuu) or the one who DESTROYED Konoha completely.

But yea, i will not answer u anymore. Ur always the same guy, i give up. U don't use manga statements, that's ur problem Sasuke-kun.


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 14, 2015)

pluuuuffff said:


> Everytime u talk u make me laugh.
> 
> So, in ur opinion Kabuto's performance with Rinnegan is the same than Nagato's, that used his eye the entire life?



 By that logic, every Edo Tensei faced was inferior to real thing which is never implied. 



> Kabuto didn't know about Nagato's sensor, didn't react against the Susano'o after the Chibaku Tensei, and not only that, when he used Muu he didn't even know that he couldn't use Jinton in a "half-stage".



 Baseless assumption. Nothing implied Kabuto didn't know Nagato was a sensor considering he was paying attention to the entire fight between Nagato and Itach vs. Naruto and Killer Bee and noticed Nagato could sense pressure build-up.

 He didn't react to Susano'o as he hoped that he could have dodged V4 Susano'o as that was the only thing he was capable of doing.

 Except when he used Nagato, he had knowledge of all of his abilities, even his most secretive and most powerful technique which was Chibaku Tensei, so that's irrelevant.




> Kabuto has a "knowledge" about every Edo Tensei technique, but he can't performe like the originals. It's like saying that Nagato's performance with Rinnegan is the same than Madara (what is a lie, Madara's >>>>>> Nagato).



 He can perform like the originals and unless you provide a scan, my point still stands. How well Nagato was able to do against Naruto and Killer Bee suggests that was the best Nagato could do. Afterall, Kabuto credited his loss to Nagato's power, not his ability to control Nagato.



> Also, again, ur underestimating Shinra Tensei. The only one who got tanked was a "normal" one, not even close to the one who repelled 3 frogs (same size than Bijuu) or the one who DESTROYED Konoha completely.



 He had pure killing intent, so that was the strongest ST that he can use unless he wanted to CST and shut down his powers for good. CST also failed to destroy a bunch of buildings and mini-Katsuyu's, so Hachibi is tanking it, especially when we consider his Large AoE that can destroy an entire forest to negate some of the force from that CST.



> But yea, i will not answer u anymore. Ur always the same guy, i give up. U don't use manga statements, that's ur problem Sasuke-kun.



 Okay. Don't let the door hit u on the way out. 

 Checkmate.


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