# G4 Luffy vs Zoro



## Sir Curlyhat (May 19, 2015)

_Luffy starts in G4. The gear works as shown in the manga and expires in the given time limit. 




			You can give him planet lvl DC and he would still lose since he would have no way of tagging him and Luffy can basically speedblitz him.

G4 Luffy would straight-up blitz Sanji and crack his face open.

Sanji won't land a single hit against serious G4 Luffy.
		
Click to expand...



These are comments from a thread that has Luffy facing the second fastest, CoO specialist of the M3. How does the second strongest, CoA specialist of the M3 fare against his captain's latest gear ? What difficulty does Zoro give him ?_


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## DanElectro (May 19, 2015)

Hello newfriend, welcome to the forums. There is a search function on the upper right corner that you can use to see old threads and this one already exists. Please use it next time, ok?

Good post nonetheless, keep up the good work.


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## Grimsley (May 19, 2015)

zoro wins for now


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## Mr. Black Leg (May 19, 2015)

Someone is getting their head blown off by a punch .


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## Coruscation (May 19, 2015)

It may depend on what the time limit is. If it is a measly few minutes as it would be if the "20 minutes" statement referred only to Bird Cage, there's a good chance it won't be able to bring the endurance and damage soak monstrosity known as Zoro down in just those few minutes. Doflamingo started out already heavily damaged when G4 began viciously beating on him, and I don't imagine Zoro's endurance is significantly worse than Doflamingo's. Luffy would instead have to fight with his other Gears for some time and go into G4 as the fight draws nearer its end to gain the necessary advantage to finish the match. This would definitely qualify as at least a high difficulty fight. If the time limit is over 20 minutes, however, it should be capable of taking Zoro out during that time considering how devastating its power is. Due to G4's nature in that it is an ability that after being used basically makes Luffy useless for a period of time, the fight could qualify as high difficulty based on that it would take a good chunk of the time it can stay up for to take Zoro out and Luffy will be heavily tired out and unable to even use Haki afterwards. This is assuming Zoro won't be able to damage Luffy at all during G4, which is an assumption that could of course be wrong; but considering even Doflamingo wasn't able to put a scratch on Luffy, I think it is fair to say Zoro will at least have to show more of his capabilities before we give him the benefit of the doubt that he can put any significant on damage on Luffy whilst the latter is in G4, something a saga boss couldn't.


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## Firo (May 19, 2015)

Yeah... I dont see Zoro surviving G4......


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## MrWano (May 19, 2015)

Luffy beats him.

Doffy wasn't able to do damage Luffy at all during G4, and as far as we know, he only landed one attack. Doffy is up even after his beating, but he has also proven himself to be a complete freak when it comes to taking damage without being put down. His endurance is ridiculous. There's still some uncertainty when it comes to the time limit, if G4 truly lasts for 20 min, Luffy blows Zoro away. Especially given how freakishly fast he is in G4. 

But Luffy using G4 bumps up the fight to mid or high diff. on its own.


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## tanman (May 19, 2015)

The beating given to Dofla should be sufficient to K.O. Zoro.


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## Finalbeta (May 19, 2015)

Mmm, Zoro pushed Fujitora back, but he is weaker than Doflamingo for what he has shown till now

I don't see Zoro two - shotting Sanji at all

Luffy mid diffs at worst


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## Extravlad (May 19, 2015)

If Luffy use G4 without having already injured Zoro prior to it he loses 100% sure.


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## trance (May 19, 2015)

Luffy with very high difficulty.


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## Yuki (May 19, 2015)

Luffy either destroys Zoro or gets oneshot after G4.

Luffy low difs if he does it in the time limit, other wise Zoro low diffs once G4 is over. 

I don't see how anyone can think it's high dif, if Zoro can cause Luffy some difficulty then he is not going down within G4s time limit and overall means Zoro is >>> Luffy.

G4 has changed things, it's no longer as simple as it use to be.


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## Typhon (May 19, 2015)

Yeah, Zoro is not gonna outlast G4. Luffy beats him into submission mid diff.  Zoro is nowhere near Doflamingo in what he can take and recover from.


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## Coruscation (May 19, 2015)

Typhon said:
			
		

> Zoro is nowhere near Doflamingo in what he can take and recover from.



You care to back that up with _anything_, considering you haven't even seen Zoro take a hit since the timeskip but he historically has the best raw damage soaking feats and has been called the toughest member of the entire crew?


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## Kaiser (May 19, 2015)

Kaiser said:


> Judging by how heavily tired he is after gear4, i'd say the simple fact of using g4 would make any fight be in the very-high difficulty range anyway


Anyone can kill Luffy after gear4 and whether he can kill the toughest strawhat and armament specialist of the crew during the gear4 timelimit or not when he failed to do so against heavily injured Doflamingo(admittedly he is an impressive tank) is questionable

I consider Zoro as strong if not stronger than gear2/3 Luffy, but it would take an immense amount of effort. Luffy could use those modes to wear down Zoro before finishing him in gear4 if he wants to play smart


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## Dunno (May 19, 2015)

Luffy won't be able to take down Zoro in the time limit, so he loses. If he didn't have to start in gear 4, he'd win with extreme diff, being able to wear Zoro down a bit before having to use gear 4.


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## Typhon (May 19, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> You care to back that up with _anything_, considering you haven't even seen Zoro take a hit since the timeskip but he historically has the best raw damage soaking feats and has been called the toughest member of the entire crew?



Exactly.  Zoro hasn't shown anything to warrant him having the damage soak and recovery ability of someone like Doflamingo, even the nerfed one who went against Luffy. I'm not about to give Zoro imaginary feats on the level of someone who punked two supernova just because that is his forte.


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## Coruscation (May 19, 2015)

You're not giving him feats by acknowledging your argument has no basis. You're simply not being a biased anti-Zoroite and acknowledging there is *no evidence whatsoever* of the statement you made. You can still hold the opinion while acknowledging you have absolutely zero basis for it. But why be rational and fair like that when you can be a biased hater instead, eh?


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## Yuki (May 19, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> You're not giving him feats by acknowledging your argument has no basis. You're simply not being a biased anti-Zoroite and acknowledging there is *no evidence whatsoever* of the statement you made. You can still hold the opinion while acknowledging you have absolutely zero basis for it. But why be rational and fair like that when you can be a biased hater instead, eh?



You're being 100% the opposite. 

You also have no evidence whatsoever to put Zoro on par with DD.


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## Coruscation (May 19, 2015)

Being what? The opposite of a biased hater? Yes. That's what I'm being.

I haven't put him on par with Doflamingo, but if I wanted to do so I'd still have more basis for it than Typhon has for saying Zoro is nowhere near Doflamingo. But I certainly have a strong and solid basis for speculating that Zoro is relatively close to Doflamingo's level of endurance. But that's the key. I'm speculating it. Typhon tried to make the statement assertively. That puts all the burden of proof on his shoulders and he just admitted he doesn't have a single shred of evidence. So he's totally being biased and silly in insisting to make that statement despite not even having a ghost of an argument to back it up with.


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## Bernkastel (May 19, 2015)

Luffy wins.

DD >> Zoro in speed 
DD > Zoro in strength 
DD >> Zoro  in defense

If DD a much faster and stronger couldn't react to/damage Luffy then Zoro can't even dream to touch him.

His only hope is to try and avoid Luffy till G4 ends but i don't see him capable of that given Luffy is wayy faster than Zoro.


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## ShadoLord (May 19, 2015)

Luffy should be able to win mid/high-diff, he has the speed to blitze Zoro, and he might tank a couple of hits or two and retaliate abit, but Luffy within his G4 time limit should be able to down Zoro.


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## King plasma (May 19, 2015)

This should be at least a high difficulty fight for Luffy.

Zoro has the means to hurt Luffy effectively. Sharp>blunt attacks. 
Zoro has the endurance to take a few punches. He's definitely not someone fragile. The only problem will be G4's speed. I'm assuming Zoro has fast enough hand speed to block most of his punches to reduce damage taken, but Zoro probably still get blown away from the elasticity.


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## kidgogeta (May 19, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> You're being 100% the opposite.
> 
> You also have no evidence whatsoever to put Zoro on par with DD.





Anyone without bias that knows how to do conservative power scaling would come to the conclusion that a fresh Zoro would equal or surpass an injured Doflamingo in damage soak.


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## Quuon (May 19, 2015)

Zoro should be able to survive G4 with Luffy's current time limit.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Give the friend infinite G4 next time.


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## Sir Curlyhat (May 19, 2015)

_Interesting contrast between the belief that Sanji get's dealt with in a single shot while Zoro has a good chance to actually outlast Luffy's current Gear 4 usage. _


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## Imagine (May 19, 2015)

Zoro ain't on Dofla's level. He's not beating G4 Luffy.


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## tanman (May 19, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> You care to back that up with _anything_, considering you haven't even seen Zoro take a hit since the timeskip but he historically has the best raw damage soaking feats and has been called the toughest member of the entire crew?



I'm floored that you're arguing that point. I assumed you'd come back at him with the point that Doflamingo wasn't at full health when G4 began. I'm shocked you took an angle as flimsy as that.


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## Thdyingbreed (May 19, 2015)

As of right now Luffy mid diffs Zoro for the people who think Zoro outlasts G4 explain how he does that I'm interested in hearing.

Because If he tries too block any of his attacks he's getting knocked across an island and if he certainly isn't beating Luffy in a head on clash G4 packs way too much force and he doesn't have the mobility to escape from Luffy.


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## Canute87 (May 19, 2015)

Zoro get his ass beat.


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## Typhon (May 19, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> You're not giving him feats by acknowledging your argument has no basis. You're simply not being a biased anti-Zoroite and acknowledging there is *no evidence whatsoever* of the statement you made. You can still hold the opinion while acknowledging you have absolutely zero basis for it. But why be rational and fair like that when you can be a biased hater instead, eh?


The hell are you trying to say? I need evidence to prove that the arc boss can take a hit from G4 Luffy better then Zoro can? Are you being serious right now?

I am being rational and fair. It is obvious Zoro bias to assume he could possibly outlast G4 Luffy and not get wrecked.



Coruscation said:


> Being what? The opposite of a biased hater? Yes. That's what I'm being.
> 
> I haven't put him on par with Doflamingo, but if I wanted to do so I'd still have more basis for it than Typhon has for saying Zoro is nowhere near Doflamingo. But I certainly have a strong and solid basis for speculating that Zoro is relatively close to Doflamingo's level of endurance. But that's the key. I'm speculating it. Typhon tried to make the statement assertively. That puts all the burden of proof on his shoulders and he just admitted he doesn't have a single shred of evidence. So he's totally being biased and silly in insisting to make that statement despite not even having a ghost of an argument to back it up with.



 Do your arguments always boil down to you calling the other guy bias? It should be freaking obvious that Doflamingo is superior to Zoro. Zoro was on his knees after one attack from Fugitora that doesn't even begin to compare to everything Doffy has been through.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 19, 2015)

Typhon said:


> Yeah, Zoro is not gonna outlast G4. Luffy beats him into submission mid diff.  Zoro is nowhere near Doflamingo in what he can take and recover from.



 

Sure bro


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## Freechoice (May 19, 2015)

Coruscation is terrible, dunno why people entertain that fatty

Imagini has got the answers, Zoro is not taking down G4 Luffy.


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## Intus Legere (May 20, 2015)

I kind of agree with Coruscation, but I wouldn't go as far as he goes. Luffy definitely wins, but it won't be easy to put Zoro down, and Zoro shouldn't be all that far from Doflamingo in regards to damage soaking, much less a heavily damaged Doflamingo. Then again, that's all this fight is, a race against the watch; there isn't much that Zoro can do against Luffy in G4, as far as we know.



Sir Curlyhat said:


> _Interesting contrast between the belief that Sanji get's dealt with in a single shot while Zoro has a good chance to actually outlast Luffy's current Gear 4 usage. _



You're comparing Zoro to Sanji.

One is the guy who is portrayed consistently as a badass who has barely been touched since the time skip, gets better portrayal than Luffy against enemies that both fought, completely dominated his enemies so far, has the best attack regarding damage capabilities of the Straw Hat crew, etc. The other one was portrayed in a bad situation against Vergo and was dominated by Doflamingo.

I don't like to downplay Sanji, but... Oda already did quite the damage on him.


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## Green Monkey (May 20, 2015)

Zoro gets mid diffed if we go by manga feats, high-extreme diff if we go by the undeniable fact that Oda is not going to make a full powered Zoro that much weaker than a full powered Luffy.

Strictly by feats Zoro is not going to be fast enough to dodge G4, and since this is Battledome and not manga, Luffy is going to land a lot more than 4 or 5 hits before his G4 runs out, he is going to relentlessly pummel Zoro's ass.


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## Haruhifan21 (May 20, 2015)

We haven't seen Zoro go all out yet, so we don't know what he has up his sleeve.

With CURRENT FEATS, Zoro loses.


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## Ruse (May 20, 2015)

G4 too stronk


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## Imagine (May 20, 2015)

Zoro has nothing that would make him equal to or above Luffy, damnit. That goes for Asura and whatever the fuck else. 



Luffy > Zoro > Sanji

It's been that way and it's going to stay that way. Stop the madness pls


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## Coruscation (May 20, 2015)

Typhon said:


> The hell are you trying to say? I need evidence to prove that the arc boss can take a hit from G4 Luffy better then Zoro can? Are you being serious right now?
> 
> I am being rational and fair. It is obvious Zoro bias to assume he could possibly outlast G4 Luffy and not get wrecked.
> 
> ...



You need evidence for your ridiculous statement that Zoro is NOWHERE NEAR what Doflamingo can endure. You have not a single shred of evidence for that assertion. You even ADMIT you don't have a single shred of evidence. Yet you insist on making it _definitively_. That shows you're not the least bit interested in any sort of fair evaluation.

No it's not. Where is your evidence? Not bullshit powerscaling based on anti-Zoroism. Actual manga evidence. How can you put a HARD DEFINITIVE CAP on the endurance of a man who hasn't even taken a hit?

I call people biased when they are. You put your anti-Zoroism on display in nearly every possible thread so this was an easy one. So Zoro pushing back Fujitora, an Admiral, and taking no significant damage from his attack is now a BAD feat for Zoro? Only in Typhon's world people. Only in Typhon's world.


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## trance (May 20, 2015)

>Flaming in the battledome

Do you people ever learn?


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## Sir Curlyhat (May 20, 2015)

Intus Legere said:


> I
> 
> One is the guy who is portrayed consistently as a badass who has barely been touched since the time skip, gets better portrayal than Luffy against enemies that both fought, completely dominated his enemies so far, has the best attack regarding damage capabilities of the Straw Hat crew, etc. The other one was portrayed in a bad situation against Vergo and was dominated by Doflamingo.
> 
> I don't like to downplay Sanji, but... Oda already did quite the damage on him.


_
Sanji's "bad image" is entirely comparable to Luffy's "bad image" prior to G4, and in certain aspects he looks better. Dolfamingo for example called Sanji's DJ kicks strong while he said that Luffy's G2 tickles. If such a statement would have been made in regards to Sanji's character, there would be no end to the threads focusing on it, and how it causes irreparable damage to his image and his M3 status must be questioned. We've seen that happening with the injury he sustained during his exchange with Vergo which was basically the basis of calling Sanji's durability trash since then. 

The belief that Sanji's durability suddenly became words apart from Zoro's or Luffy's since the time skip is absurd. While he was not the best tank among the M3 even before the time skip, he still was and will remain reasonably close to his peers. If Zoro has a chance to outlast G4, there's absolutely no chance for Sanji to get dealt with by a single attack. I agree with continuing to believe Zoro is a monster in terms of endurance as he was before the time skip even in lack of post time skip feats, and i agree with considering him superior to Sanji in that aspect as before the time skip. That's common sense, which also dictates that it's a lot more likely for Sanji to still be relatively close to him in that regard, and not significantly less able to deal with taking damage to the point where they are not even comparable._


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## Amol (May 20, 2015)

DD outclasses any M3 level fighter in everything.
Zoro doesn't have DD level durability or endurance.
That is exactly what means being on another level.
Common sense tells us that Zoro is not on DD's level. You don't need hard proof for something that common sense can tell you.
So as things stands now, Luffy blitzes Zoro and beats him to submission.
Zoro is not landing any hit on him.


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## Firo (May 20, 2015)

Imagine said:


> Zoro has nothing that would make him equal to or above Luffy, damnit. That goes for Asura and whatever the fuck else.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Its so simple and yet... Not really.


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## Bernkastel (May 20, 2015)

Sir Curlyhat said:


> _
> Sanji's "bad image" is entirely comparable to Luffy's "bad image" prior to G4, and in certain aspects he looks better. Dolfamingo for example called Sanji's DJ kicks strong while he said that Luffy's G2 tickles. If such a statement would have been made in regards to Sanji's character, there would be no end to the threads focusing on it, and how it causes irreparable damage to his image and his M3 status must be questioned. We've seen that happening with the injury he sustained during his exchange with Vergo which was basically the basis of calling Sanji's durability trash since then.
> 
> The belief that Sanji's durability suddenly became words apart from Zoro's or Luffy's since the time skip is absurd. While he was not the best tank among the M3 even before the time skip, he still was and will remain reasonably close to his peers. If Zoro has a chance to outlast G4, there's absolutely no chance for Sanji to get dealt with by a single attack. I agree with continuing to believe Zoro is a monster in terms of endurance as he was before the time skip even in lack of post time skip feats, and i agree with considering him superior to Sanji in that aspect as before the time skip. That's common sense, which also dictates that it's a lot more likely for Sanji to still be relatively close to him in that regard, and not significantly less able to deal with taking damage to the point where they are not even comparable._



Problem with Sanji is he's missing for a whole arc and we have no idea how to evaluate his strength.
People also tend to exaggerate with the crack in his leg in his fight with Vergo  and assume that Vergo woul definitely win if the fight continued.

Before the fight with Pica most people thought Zoro would lose to Vergo but that changed quite fast.Same will happen with Sanji when he gets solid fights/feats.Also Sanji being used as hype tool for DD didn't do much good either.
A BM commander should be used by Oda as hype tool in order for Sanji to "heal" from his portrayal so far.


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## Lawliet (May 20, 2015)

> I need evidence to prove that the arc boss can take a hit from G4 Luffy better then Zoro can? Are you being serious right now?



Umm.. I'm pretty sure Zoro could take hits better than a lot of the arc bosses Luffy faced before. That does not make Zoro stronger than all of them, it just means he can take a hit as good as them or even better.



> People also tend to exaggerate with the crack in his leg in his fight with Vergo and assume that Vergo woul definitely win if the fight continued.



Exaggerate? A crack on Sanji's leg is not a big deal now? Imagine if Luffy clashed with Chinjao fist to fist exactly the same way it happened in the arena, and Luffy's fist cracked a bit. How would that look?


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## Dunno (May 20, 2015)

Doflamingo couldn't even properly deal with Gear 2/3 Luffy. Doflamingo took at least as much damage from Luffy's connecting Gear 2 hits as Chinjao did. There's no way a half-dead Doflamingo can take more damage than Zoro. You people are delusional.


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## Rocky (May 20, 2015)

Even if Zoro survives Luffy's assault, would he be conscious afterwards? Luffy was like a few feet away from pushing Doflamingo's shit in for good before his G4 ran out.


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## The Bloody Nine (May 20, 2015)

I actually can't believe people think Zoro has any sort of chance at surviving G4.This is the most ridiculous wankery i've seen in ages.  

Zoro is not Doflamingo!

Zoro might have equal or even better endurance. But he does not have Joker's level of Armament. Can anyone honestly see Zoro legit no selling G2 Bazooka or Hells Memories ? 

Zoro does not have Jokers level of speed/CoO. And even Joker got blitzed twice!  Alot of G4's damage was mitigated by the fact Joker managed to get his arms up and guard himself from Kong Gun and Leo Bazooka. If Zoro somehow manages not to take every single hit clean to his head then it will be a miracle.

Zoro does not have Jokers utility. Luffy was a few seconds away from landing a final fifth hit. A few precocious seconds Joker bought by turning the surroundings to string. Joker barely survived  4 hits, two of which he blocked. Zoro is gonna be taking 5 and all of them almost certainly unmitigated. Zoro would have top tier damage soak (because really that's the only step up from Joker) if he can stay conscious after 3. 5 and we are talking Primebeard level.


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## Bernkastel (May 20, 2015)

oOLawlietOo said:


> Umm.. I'm pretty sure Zoro could take hits better than a lot of the arc bosses Luffy faced before. That does not make Zoro stronger than all of them, it just means he can take a hit as good as them or even better.
> 
> 
> 
> Exaggerate? A crack on Sanji's leg is not a big deal now? Imagine if Luffy clashed with Chinjao fist to fist exactly the same way it happened in the arena, and Luffy's fist cracked a bit. How would that look?



People in OP had much worse injuries and continued to fight just fine.

DD is supposed to be having his organs roasted and hanging by a thread.
WB had his half face melted and his organs fried.(i'm not comparing WB to Sanji i just state insane injuries)
Zoro took Luffy's pain in TB after already being exhausted and survived.
Zoro survived a bolt to the head from Enel.

A single crack (not even broken) isn't the end of the world.Also people tend to overlook the fact that Sanji was kicking around Vergo just fine even after his so fatally cracked leg.Nothing suggests that Vergo would definitely win if the fight went on..it's just speculation.


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## Roronoa-zoro (May 20, 2015)

Yes, Zoro isn't yet on Doflamingos level, that we all know, but to say that he is massively inferior in endurance/durability is nonsense.
An seriously injured Doffy managed survive long enough to outlast G4, so its not out of the realm of possibility that an 100% fit Zoro wouldn't be able to do so, especially if you consider that he specializes in CoA haki.

Also, Zoro's generic slash was able to overpower Fujitoras' gravity attack and push him a couple of meters away, sure Fujitora may have not have been completely serious, but still it was strong enough for him to say how brutal the attack was, that should tell you something about Zoro's high end moves. 
And lets not forget that Hyouzou was able to react to an G2 move, that should tell you that the speed of Zoro's attacks is not that far behind G2 Luffy, sure it's not close to G4th Luffy's speed, but it's certainly enough to get 1 or 2 techniques to connect over a 20 minute period. 

So, Zoro > just G4th Luffy and not gear restricted Luffy > Zoro.


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## Rocky (May 20, 2015)

Are there any feats from Zoro that put him anywhere near Doflamingo, or is everyone just guessing.

If we're guessing, shouldn't Doflamingo get the benefit of the doubt by virtue of being the higher tiered fighter?


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## Lawliet (May 20, 2015)

> DD is supposed to be having his organs roasted and hanging by a thread.



Doffy himself said Law's attempt was a failure. Law had no idea Doffy can stitch his organs that fast. An attack like Gamma Knife takes time to take affect. But Doffy stitched himself right away and called that attempt a failure.


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## MrWano (May 20, 2015)

Roronoa-zoro said:


> snip



How is Doffy's durability potentially being far superior to Zoro's nonsense? Doffy took a red hawk completely unguarded and only suffered minor, relevant long term damage. He also completely no sold a hardened G2 bazooka and blocked a full force DJ attack from Sanji by simply lifting his leg, stopping Sanji dead in his tracks. Do you seriously see Zoro doing that or something close to it?

In terms of endurance I can see people giving Zoro the benefit of the doubt when it comes to his endurance being close to Doffy given Zoro's feats in part one. I seriously doubt it's the case though. Doffy can inflate the amount of damage he can take and keep going due to the nature his df. He can in a way halt the internal injuries and reduce their effect. Zoro might be able to take similar amount of damage without dying, but as TB shows, his willpower/damage soak exceedes his combat endurance by quite a bit. And he doesn't have internal first aid either.


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## PirateHunter Eddy (May 20, 2015)

It seems like Zoro is the ultimate pinnacle of everything in one piece I mean honestly what more must Doflamingo do to show that his durability is a considerable amount greater than Zoro's? I mean its quite clear that DD is quite a considerable amount more durable Luffy so unless people are implying Zoro durability is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than luffy which if you powerscale(Due to a lack of feats) should only be slightly above Luffy, I don't see what argument people are trying to make. Why must there always be a case made for Zoro? whats nexts Zoro speed is actually> than DD's?


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## Roronoa-zoro (May 20, 2015)

MrWano said:


> _snip_



I said massively superior not far superior, massively meaning that Doffy's durability makes Zoro's durability look like fodder compared to it. 

And yes, I agree that Zoro wouldn't have no sold those attacks but he still would not be k.o'd by those attacks, just like he wouldn't be k'o'd by G4th Luffy after 20 minutes.

Why? Mostly because I believe that 100% fit Zoro with his CoA harding on top of his strong endurance/durability would be enough to outlast G4 Luffy, sure he'd be absolutely fucked after those 20 minutes but he'd still be able to move imo.


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## Canute87 (May 20, 2015)

People are really dick riding the organs excuse.


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## Bernkastel (May 20, 2015)

oOLawlietOo said:


> Doffy himself said Law's attempt was a failure. Law had no idea Doffy can stitch his organs that fast. An attack like Gamma Knife takes time to take affect. But Doffy stitched himself right away and called that attempt a failure.



Then why do people keep saying that Luffy is fighting a half-dead DD?


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## Freechoice (May 20, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> People are really dick riding the organs excuse.


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## Freechoice (May 20, 2015)

Bernkastel said:


> Then why do people keep saying that Luffy is fighting a half-dead DD?



Because they dumb

they have dumb faces and dumb opinions with dumb words and dumb rep


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## Roronoa-zoro (May 20, 2015)

^ lol, what do you want me to say? That G4th Luffy completely fodderizes Zoro in a couple of hits, is that what you want? 

Would that make me one of the good Zoro fans?


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## MrWano (May 20, 2015)

Roronoa-zoro said:


> I said massively superior not far superior, massively meaning that Doffy's durability makes Zoro's durability look like fodder compared to it.
> 
> And yes, I agree that Zoro wouldn't have no sold those attacks but he still would not be k.o'd by those attacks, just like he wouldn't be k'o'd by G4th Luffy after 20 minutes.
> 
> Why? Mostly because I believe that 100% fit Zoro with his CoA harding on top of his strong endurance/durability would be enough to outlast G4 Luffy, sure he'd be absolutely fucked after those 20 minutes but he'd still be able to move imo.



If that's your view on massively, I can agree that it's not that bad.

Don't think he'd be k.o'd by them either, but I also don't think he'd take them in a way comparable to DD. I don't know. As in close to as well as Doffy. Look at what 4-5 hits did to Doffy. Luffy would land far more on Zoro during those 20 min, given the wider speed gap. The result would be devastating for Zoro I think.

Fair enough on your stance though. Can't exactly say you're wrong as we haven't seen Zoro's limits yet.


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## The Bloody Nine (May 20, 2015)

Roronoa-zoro said:


> ^ lol, what do you want me to say? That G4th Luffy completely fodderizes Zoro in a couple of hits, is that what you want?



Honestly, i can't see any other way it would turn out. G4 Luffy was a few seconds away from low-diffing_ DOFLAMINGO. _ Its retarded. 

Zoro's only way to push Luffy to extreme diff now is to get lucky and tag him with a few of his high end attacks. Or go Asura first and hope Luffy is stupid enough to try and overpower him with a high-end G3 attack. Luckily for Zoro (and Law)  Luffy is pretty stupid and prefers to over-power things. But realistically i don't think Zoro can push Luffy to extreme-diff anymore and that Luffy widened the gap and that it will only keep growing.


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## Dellinger (May 20, 2015)

Sir Curly trying his best to defend Sanji


----------



## Bernkastel (May 20, 2015)

lol said:


> Because they dumb
> 
> they have dumb faces and dumb opinions with dumb words and dumb rep



The dumb rep nailed it


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## Coruscation (May 20, 2015)

This forum is seriously poisoned by anti-Zoro trending. 

DD is far superior to an M3 level fighter in everything? No he freaking isn't. Luffy was at least as fast as him before G4. There's nothing suggesting his attack power is higher than Zoro's. What makes DD stronger is that he is the complete package. He has COA greater than any M3 member, speed close to if not on par with G2, higher physical strength, great attack power and a large amount of utility and hax. His superiority was NEVER due to being "far" superior in any area let alone every area. It's due to his well roundedness. He is at most slightly weaker than any M3 member in any area and stronger in most. But not fucking leaps and bounds stronger. That's just baseless bullshit. Now sure he can be a lot stronger in _some_ areas. But far superior in an M3 member's absolute area of expertise? When there is absolutely _no_ evidence for it? No. You don't just blurt out such definitive assertions. He isn't much faster than Luffy, he's arguably not even faster at all. So why is he so fucking _definitively_ far tougher than Zoro? Bullshit is what it is. There is no basis for it. You can hold the opinion, but acknowledge that you lack any form of solid evidence. Otherwise you're just being intentionally anti a character solely because it's that character.


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## The Bloody Nine (May 20, 2015)

Okay, nice rant. Been a while. 



Coruscation said:


> There's nothing suggesting his attack power is higher than Zoro's. What makes DD stronger is that he is the complete package. He has COA greater than any M3 member, speed close to if not on par with G2, higher physical strength, great attack power and a large amount of utility and hax.



I agree on all points as do most posters in this thread. But the question in the OP isn't how did this complete-package fighter who is overall stronger than anyone in M3 do against G4 Luffy. We know the answer to that question; he got ragdolled and barely managed to hold his consciousness. 

The question the OP asked is how would ZORO - someone who has significantly less utility and is both slower and weaker in CoA than Doflamingo - do against G4 Luffy. The answer is quite obvious; he would get ragdolled even harder! And he would not have a snowballs chance in hell of keeping his consciousness. 

9/10 times Zoro won't even know what happened when Kong Gun hits him.


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## Coruscation (May 20, 2015)

DD blocked with his hands. His COA is strong, but it's still his bare hands.

Zoro has three world class swords and trained for 2 years to imbue his COA into them so they won't break or be damaged. He also trained for 2 years to develop his skill at wielding them, moving, blocking, parrying, striking, to extreme levels.

Do you think that means _nothing_?

People just love to jump to extremes. Yes G4 would be knocking Zoro around. Yes Zoro would take heavy damage if he gets hit by it and if he doesn't manage to mount any kind of defense he would be able to quickly get beaten into unconsciousness.

But the out of nowhere assumptions that Zoro is both _defenseless_ and _frail_ against G4 need to flipping end. Doflamingo was not incapable of reacting to G4. He only got legit blitzed once. Culverin not retracting caught him off guard one time and the other times he defended in time but his block wasn't enough. Zoro, as mentioned, has his COA-imbued swords for defense. He is also a greater offensive threat because he can cut through Luffy's Haki. Doflamingo was heavily damaged by the time he started taking hits. That was taking a toll on him. Zoro is NOT FRAIL. He has been internally called the toughest member of the crew. This fucking dude took Luffy's own pain on top of all his own and was still conscious. What hubris have those who fanboyishly shoot off into their personal la-la land of assumptions and simply _decide_ that Zoro can't even resist a few hits before losing unconsciousness, without even having seen him take a hit let alone be pushed anywhere?

It's stupid and short-sighted and ridiculous. And it won't stop being that because people repeat a million variations of an argument with no more substance than "Zoro gets owned lol".


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## The Bloody Nine (May 20, 2015)

Your post is confusing. 

Based on nothing but conjecture you say that Zoro will somehow mount an effective defence when Joker couldn't. Despite the fact that anyone that has ever read any of Zoro's fights know's he's the perfect definition of "attack is the best form of defence", IC he'll try to Shi Son Son or Ultra Hunt G4 and eat a Kong Gun for his troubles, because Luffy is faster. And more manoeuvrable. I see you didn't offer up a defence for Rhino and Luffy's speed. You admitted that Joker got blitzed and then you just swept it under the rug like it was a trivial thing. "Someone who is faster than Zoro got blitzed. BUT IT ONLY HAPPENED ONCE! So its all okay! Wtf?

Okay so against character Zoro recognizes that playing defensive is his best chance and curls up into a spiky ball. Whats the end game ? He hopes that Luffy fatally cuts himself on his blades when G4 was cracking Jokers CoA like an egg shell ? And you even admit just blocking isn't enough. The sheer force will send Zoro flying and probably daze him like Joker was dazed both times he managed to block G4. Yet Zoro will be different because reasons ? 

I notice you're very general about Zoro's supposed ability to defend himself because you are basing all of this on literally nothing. Yet here I am again and again describing how Joker got destroyed by G4 Luffy and how being slower with weaker CoA but higher DC really isn't the answer for Luffy.


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## Coruscation (May 20, 2015)

Zoro is an offensive fighter because he nearly always can be. If he's forced to play defense he will play defense. G4 would undoubtedly force him to play defense a lot more than he usually would. And he would recognize that. _Zoro_ isn't going to underestimate _Luffy_ of all people. What did I sweep under the rug? I said, quoting verbatim, G4 would be knocking Zoro around. You're telling me that's sweeping it under the rug? I completely acknowledge that. But I also pointed out Zoro may have a better chance of mitigating damage than Doflamingo when he blocks because of his specialization into imbuing his swords with COA. So _that's_ the reason Zoro might be different. I already explained this in no uncertain terms so who's sweeping what under the rug now?

No. I rather imagine he imbues all his swords with full COA, brings out his most effective and powerful stances and uses that 2 years of master swordsmanship training to defend like his life depends on it. This includes the yet-to-be-seen post timeskip Ashura which pre-skip made Zoro go from nearly even with Kaku to destroying him instantly. Any intention of acknowledging that? Or do you simply sweep it under the rug? He'll get beaten and bloodied but is there a chance he can last _a few minutes_? Yes. I damn well think there is such a chance.

I'm not basing it on nothing. It's called inference. I acknowledge it's speculation, but it is BASED on SOMETHING. The opposing position, that Zoro is just a frail little defenseless nobody to G4, or that he is a flipping glass statue compared to Doflamingo in endurance, is not based on anything substantial. It just wildly extrapolates beyond what it has any substantial backing to do.


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## The Bloody Nine (May 20, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> Zoro is an offensive fighter because he nearly always can be. .



Really ? Because i recall Zoro going all-out attack against a steel man he couldn't cut until plot kai happened and suddenly he could. Zoro is aggressive to the point of insanity; thats his whole thing. 



Coruscation said:


> What did I sweep under the rug? I said, quoting verbatim, G4 would be knocking Zoro around. .



I was talking about Luffy's superior speed and that with moves this destructive whoever lands their stuff first is a huge deal. Also Joker was suprised by Culverin; Zoro with his inferior speed and CoO won't be ?



Coruscation said:


> But I also pointed out Zoro may have a better chance of mitigating damage than Doflamingo when he blocks because of his specialization into imbuing his swords .



I pointed out that this is flimsy. Flimsy as all hell.  And yet its the single least objectionable thing in your argument. 



Coruscation said:


> This includes the yet-to-be-seen post timeskip Ashura which pre-skip made Zoro go from nearly even with Kaku to destroying him instantly. Any intention of acknowledging that? .



1) Zoro used Thousand Worlds - his second best move - to take out Jokers 3rd seat. I don't have much faith taht Asura is gonna be a gamechanger on G4's level. 

2) We have no idea how Asura works, what is there to acknowledge. 



Coruscation said:


> The opposing position, that Zoro is just a frail little defenseless nobody to G4, or that he is a flipping glass statue compared to Doflamingo in endurance, is not based on anything substantial. .



On the contrary - Joker is far and away the strongest and more impressive combatant we have seen go all out, he was toying with some of the best Supernova's in CQC, and yet for all that he was annihilated when Luffy went G4. Its an absurdly powerful powerup and while Joker wasn't completely helpless - due mainly to his String String Utility which Zoro ALSO doesnt have - he wasn't effective either. There is literally no reason to think Zoro will do better than Joker and every reason to think he will do worse.


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## Coruscation (May 20, 2015)

> Really ? Because i recall Zoro going all-out attack against a steel man he couldn't cut until plot kai happened and suddenly he could. Zoro is aggressive to the point of insanity; thats his whole thing.



Yea and it's not as if that whole fight was about him going all out aggressive and failing and then realizing going pure all out aggressive isn't the way to become the best swordsman. Oh wait it was.



> I was talking about Luffy's superior speed and that with moves this destructive whoever lands their stuff first is a huge deal. Also Joker was suprised by Culverin; Zoro with his inferior speed and CoO won't be ?



Eh, if Luffy landed his biggest and best move instantly a single hit might be decisive but that's not how fights in One Piece roll. Bigger moves also tend to be more telegraphed and if Luffy comes in head on Zoro could counterattack, leading to maybe taking heavy damage but also dishing it out in return. Doffy was surprised because he lacked knowledge. I presume this is a standard BD fight: i.e. knowledge and acting rationally. He also failed to dodge because he was rebounding after bouncing off of Luffy.



> I pointed out that this is flimsy. Flimsy as all hell. And yet its the single least objectionable thing in your argument.



There's nothing flimsy about it.



> 1) Zoro used Thousand Worlds - his second best move - to take out Jokers 3rd seat. I don't have much faith taht Asura is gonna be a gamechanger on G4's level.
> 
> 2) We have no idea how Asura works, what is there to acknowledge.



And? Luffy used Elephant Gun to take out Chopper and G2 barely did crap to Chinjao. Herp Luffy sucks. No Ashura Zoro would shitstomp G2 & G3 Luffy right?

Exactly that. That you don't fucking know. *You don't go making positive assertions when you don't have any knowledge on the thing you're asserting*. You haven't even seen Ashura and yet you think you're in a position to make assertive statements on what it's incapable of doing?



> On the contrary - Joker is far and away the strongest and more impressive combatant we have seen go all out, he was toying with some of the best Supernova's in CQC, and yet for all that he was annihilated when Luffy went G4. Its an absurdly powerful powerup and while Joker wasn't completely helpless - due mainly to his String String Utility which Zoro ALSO doesnt have - he wasn't effective either. There is literally no reason to think Zoro will do better than Joker and every reason to think he will do worse.



Contrary what? Everyone knows Doflamingo is stronger than Zoro overall. This doesn't have jack shit to do with the issue of their endurance specifically which someone went and stated Zoro was "nowhere near" Doflamingo in the area of. Nor does it acknowledge that Doflamingo was already heavily injured by the time G4 came out. And it doesn't give a flying fuck about the fact that ZORO HAS YET TO EVEN BE SIGNIFICANTLY PUSHED by an opponent. You can not fucking make these definitive statements on a character who hasn't even been pushed by anyone not named Fuji-fucking-tora. He outclassed a Seat without using Ashura, that's all we know, we don't fucking know his top limit.


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## The Bloody Nine (May 20, 2015)

We are going round in circles. 



Coruscation said:


> No Ashura Zoro would shitstomp G2 & G3 Luffy right?
> 
> Exactly that. That you don't fucking know. *You don't go making positive assertions when you don't have any knowledge on the thing you're asserting*. You haven't even seen Ashura and yet you think you're in a position to make assertive statements on what it's incapable of doing?



Okay so for Asura to make a difference it would need to 

1) Overpower the G4 attack, Overpower Luffy overusing his haki and bounce defence, then One-shot Luffy. I think we can both agree that Luffy is pretty good at this damage soak thing too and the chance of Zoro being able to oneshot him is non-existent. 

2) Actually tag Luffy who is zipping around fast enough to blitz Joker. 

But sure why not rest your hopes on something we both haven't seen or understand. Maybe Zoro has fully body Ichi Gorrilla and will wrestle G4 Luffy into submission. And don't you dare make a positive assertion about how ridiculous that is. Zoro hasn't shown his limits! No doubt his power up will equal the single most ridiculous and powerful upgrade we have ever seen. And yes this was all sarcasm, i hope you got that. 



Coruscation said:


> Contrary what? Everyone knows Doflamingo is stronger than Zoro overall. This doesn't have jack shit to do with the issue of their endurance specifically which someone went and stated Zoro was "nowhere near" Doflamingo in the area of. Nor does it acknowledge that Doflamingo was already heavily injured by the time G4 came out. And it doesn't give a flying fuck about the fact that ZORO HAS YET TO EVEN BE SIGNIFICANTLY PUSHED by an opponent. *You can not fucking make these definitive statements on a character who hasn't even been pushed by anyone* not named Fuji-fucking-tora. He outclassed a Seat without using Ashura, that's all we know, we don't fucking know his top limit.



I think this is main problem with everything you're saying. The fact that Oda has gone out of his way to make sure Zoro wouldn't end up fighting people like Law, Smoker, Vergo, Joker or Burgess so we could actually see some of his limits means that we can't compare him to the unfavourably to the best fighter we have seen so far ? Because Zoro hasn't gone all out how dare we say he does worse against G4 Luffy than Joker did ? The fact that endurance doesnt matter if your body is broken. Or that  even injured Joker demonstrated greater speed, CoA and utility than Zoro ever has, or reasonably should, doesnt matter because Oda has made very sure his darling  Zoro hasn't shown his limits. 

Can you understand how retarded that sounds ? Even noted Zoro-wankers aren't making this argument.


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## Coruscation (May 20, 2015)

It doesn't need to do those things, it simply needs to pose a threat, forcing Luffy to be more cautious and giving Zoro greater chances of dealing damage or defending, by *doing whatever it actually does which you don't even know*. It's amazingly simple, Ashura was a huge power boost pre-ts, now Zoro has cut a mountain and outclassed a Seat without even using it. You are in absolutely no position to go claiming that Ashura would make no fucking difference in an all-out fight against Luffy. It's far more ridiculous and unlikely that it would make little to no difference than that it would make one.

You can compare and speculate all you want. Far be it from me to try and stop you. What I'm asking is that you *acknowledge it's just speculation* and much of it is baseless. These assertive, smug statements about how Zoro is going to get totally wrecked, can't do anything at all and is a fragile hapless little weakling compared to G4 are what are retarded here. This forum is poisoned by its anti-Zoro trend. Luffy goes all out and is impressive thus Luffy is now leagues beyond Zoro. Despite the fact that Zoro hasn't even been pushed yet. Ludicrous. It's EL all over again where the very next arc  revealed that not only Zoro but also Sanji have a goddamned good reason for being in the M3 and they aren't as weak as people love to think compared to Luffy.


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## Virus (May 20, 2015)

Luffy wins.


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## Intus Legere (May 20, 2015)

Sir Curlyhat said:


> _
> Sanji's "bad image" is entirely comparable to Luffy's "bad image" prior to G4, and in certain aspects he looks better. Dolfamingo for example called Sanji's DJ kicks strong while he said that Luffy's G2 tickles. If such a statement would have been made in regards to Sanji's character, there would be no end to the threads focusing on it, and how it causes irreparable damage to his image and his M3 status must be questioned. We've seen that happening with the injury he sustained during his exchange with Vergo which was basically the basis of calling Sanji's durability trash since then.
> 
> The belief that Sanji's durability suddenly became words apart from Zoro's or Luffy's since the time skip is absurd. While he was not the best tank among the M3 even before the time skip, he still was and will remain reasonably close to his peers. If Zoro has a chance to outlast G4, there's absolutely no chance for Sanji to get dealt with by a single attack. I agree with continuing to believe Zoro is a monster in terms of endurance as he was before the time skip even in lack of post time skip feats, and i agree with considering him superior to Sanji in that aspect as before the time skip. That's common sense, which also dictates that it's a lot more likely for Sanji to still be relatively close to him in that regard, and not significantly less able to deal with taking damage to the point where they are not even comparable._



I'm not saying whether this is wrong or right. I'm just saying that if Oda keeps showing that Zoro is incredible and keeps showing that Sanji is garbage, people will start to get the impression that everything about Zoro is incredible and everything about Sanji is garbage. I'm really not surprised with the feedback. The damage to Sanji's image was already done.

[EDIT]

While we're at this topic, let me tell you that I think Sanji's and Zoro's chances of outlasting Luffy's G4 are quite similar, as Sanji is better at evading, and Zoro is better at blocking and tanking.


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## KILLERRR (May 20, 2015)

Under these conditions Zoro would win.

I believe that Zoro would last more than an hour against Luffy in any non-handicapped fight. Zoro doesn't need to beat Luffy within the G4 time limit, all he needs to do is to survive which I believe he can as he has been shown all throughout the manga as someone with high endurance and durability. 

Zoro is a very capable tank that hasn't been tested in the New World. He took Luffy's accumulated damage in 1 blow and was still standing. Nothing suggests that he can't survive attacks that an injured Doflamingo can. He doesn't even have to tank the attacks, he has 3 haki imbued swords to block and parry some attacks.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 20, 2015)

This luffy wank is reaching start of the time skip levels.

 

keep wanking luffy guys I'm sure oda will treat him with respect in the future like he has done the last 7 years.


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## Imagine (May 20, 2015)

We will


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## Sir Curlyhat (May 20, 2015)

Intus Legere said:


> While we're at this topic, let me tell you that I think Sanji's and Zoro's chances of outlasting Luffy's G4 are quite similar, as Sanji is better at evading, and Zoro is better at blocking and tanking.


_
Based solely on what we've seen thus far i believe Zoro would last longer than Sanji. He's overall stronger and better at taking a beating, and Sanji needs to get an actual fight and showcase his CoO mastery for me to consider him able to be evasive enough against the likes of G4 to make much of a difference.

I do think that both Zoro and Sanji will have the resources to put up a decent fight even against G4 once they will showcase their true worth, and while Zoro would indeed be pushed hard by G4 and would end up losing, he'd definitely not get toyed with to the extent some people think. I do understand why that opinion exists though, G4 made a huge impact compared to Luffy's previous performance and people change their views here several times a day at times, jumping from one extreme to another. _


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## HisMajestyMihawk (May 20, 2015)

The Zolo downplay is disgusting this week. Zoro can easily cut through G4 defense and 1shot Luffy with sansen sekai. 

If Luffy decides to fuck around and run from Zoro, he will still get 1shot after G4 runs out since it only lasts a few minutes.

None of Luffy's attacks can even bring down 20% Doffy. I dont think anyone here can argue that Zoro is weaker than a deathbed Doflamingo 

Tldr Zoro low to mid diff


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## Dellinger (May 20, 2015)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> The Zolo downplay is disgusting this week. Zoro can easily cut through G4 defense and 1shot Luffy with sansen sekai.


Doflamingo's attacks just bounced off Luffy and Zoro isn't as fast as Luffy,not even close.


> If Luffy decides to fuck around and run from Zoro, he will still get 1shot after G4 runs out since it only lasts a few minutes.


Luffy won't fuck around.Luffy will be on the constant offense overwhelming Zoro.Zoro can't create massive strings from the surrounding area sadly.He can't protect himself from Luffy's onslaught.



> None of Luffy's attacks can even bring down 20% Doffy. I dont think anyone here can argue that Zoro is weaker than a deathbed Doflamingo
> 
> Tldr Zoro low to mid diff


Again with this 20% shit.

tldr,Luffy mid difficulty.


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## Imagine (May 20, 2015)

Yo where'd this 20% stuff come from? 

Is that some shit that's being said in the telegrams?


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## Bernkastel (May 20, 2015)

It's mostly due to Gamma knife roasting his organs..also the need to find excuses to downplay G4/Luffy

Even though Oda himself stated they were both equally weakened..


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## Imagine (May 20, 2015)

Luffy is in way worse shape than Dofla is 


*Spoiler*: __ 








Look at all that 20%. Dofla looks like he can't even take one more step without keeling over. Never change OL.


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## Freechoice (May 20, 2015)

Imagine is great


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## Imagine (May 20, 2015)

I love you, FC


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 20, 2015)

10 percent would be more accurate.


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## HisMajestyMihawk (May 20, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> 10 percent would be more accurate.



Well now yes...probably closer to 5%

20% was before luffy started wailing on him using G4


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## Typhon (May 20, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> You need evidence for your ridiculous statement that Zoro is NOWHERE NEAR what Doflamingo can endure. You have not a single shred of evidence for that assertion. You even ADMIT you don't have a single shred of evidence. Yet you insist on making it _definitively_. That shows you're not the least bit interested in any sort of fair evaluation.
> 
> No it's not. Where is your evidence? Not bullshit powerscaling based on anti-Zoroism. Actual manga evidence. How can you put a HARD DEFINITIVE CAP on the endurance of a man who hasn't even taken a hit?



Are you kidding me? Your only argument is that "He's Zoro and given what he did pre-skip..."

Zoro hasn't shown anything. And I'm not about to give him the benefit of a doubt as all you Zoro-fans love to do so much. We don't do this for any other character, but when it comes to Zoro, lets all make bull shit assumptions on how Zoro could low diff anyone except an Admiral because he has Asura and hasn't gone all out yet.



> I call people biased when they are. You put your anti-Zoroism on display in nearly every possible thread so this was an easy one. So Zoro pushing back Fujitora, an Admiral, and taking no significant damage from his attack is now a BAD feat for Zoro? Only in Typhon's world people. Only in Typhon's world.


And you don't do the opposite? Should I go ahead and quote the five or so posts from you? 

I said Zoro was left on his knees after the attack. Fact.


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## Lawliet (May 20, 2015)

Bernkastel said:


> Then why do people keep saying that Luffy is fighting a half-dead DD?



Because people tend to grab anything that can make their favorite character look good?

I'm not bringing anything from my ass. This is Doffy's own words.


Doflamingo: .........All I need is a little time...... / ...and I can perform emergency treatment on myself...!! 

Doflamingo: The threads inside my body... / ...are repairing my organs as we speak.
Law: ......!! What?!
Doflamingo: Abilities can have versatile uses... // It?s not quite the same as ?healing?...... / But congratulations on your wasted attempt...!! // I?ll put a stop to your miserable life now!!!
Law: ...............!!! // Dammitall!!!

You can clearly see Law shocked by saying "...!!What?!". He did not think Doffy had such an ability that can repair his organs and perform emergency treatment on himself when needed. 

You can also clearly see Doffy saying it's a wasted attempt because Doffy already countered it. Gamma Knife hurt Doflamingo, that's no lie. But the affect it was supposed to have on him did not work.


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## Lawliet (May 20, 2015)

> Are you kidding me? Your only argument is that "He's Zoro and given what he did pre-skip..."



Given what he did pre skip is not enough for you to give you an estimate on what he can do now? But apparently, not doing anything on panel is more than enough for you to make a clear judgement, isn't it?



> Zoro hasn't shown anything. And I'm not about to give him the benefit of a doubt as all you Zoro-fans love to do so much. We don't do this for any other character, but when it comes to Zoro, lets all make bull shit assumptions on how Zoro could low diff anyone except an Admiral because he has Asura and hasn't gone all out yet.


We do this with every character. This is what it means to speculate, invent theories (Theories needs to be based on something and we are basing them on Zoro's growth along with his pre skip performance).

Zoro has been highlighted to be a tank throughout the entire series. To think after two straight years of training with the WSS and the fact that he's the only strawhat to lose something due to his training (his eye) should tell you how harsh his training was in comparison to the rest of his crew and you still won't consider the idea that Zoro's durability and endurance jumped levels and levels the same way everything in Zoro did? His lethality, his physical strength, his haki, everything in him, except his durability, at least according to you.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 20, 2015)

Typhon said:


> Are you kidding me? Your only argument is that "He's Zoro and given what he did pre-skip..."
> 
> Zoro hasn't shown anything. And I'm not about to give him the benefit of a doubt as all you Zoro-fans love to do so much. We don't do this for any other character, but when it comes to Zoro, lets all make bull shit assumptions on how Zoro could low diff anyone except an Admiral because he has Asura and hasn't gone all out yet.
> 
> ...



Dragon has not shown anything must have much weaker durability then doflamingo people


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## Yuki (May 20, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Dragon has not shown anything must have much weaker durability then doflamingo people



Comparing Dragon to Zoro

Yup defo's the RH of this section.

Fking idiot.


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## Dunno (May 20, 2015)

Typhon said:


> Are you kidding me? Your only argument is that "He's Zoro and given what he did pre-skip..."
> 
> Zoro hasn't shown anything. And I'm not about to give him the benefit of a doubt as all you Zoro-fans love to do so much. We don't do this for any other character, but when it comes to Zoro, lets all make bull shit assumptions on how Zoro could low diff anyone except an Admiral because he has Asura and hasn't gone all out yet.
> 
> ...



Noone's asked you to give Zoro the benefit of the doubt. Just look at what he's done so far: He successfully defended from Fujitora when he was caught off-guard by him (the ground below Zoro actually had to give away for his guard to break, and he broke out of Fuji's attack moments later.). He clashed with Fujitora once more and came out unharmed. He beat Monet (who actually gave Luffy a lot of trouble) without breaking a sweat. He beat Pica without breaking a sweat. He beat Hyouzou much easier than Luffy beat Hody, even though Hyouzou was much stronger in base and they both overdosed. 

To acknowledge that Zoro hasn't even been close to going all out isn't to give Zoro the benefit of the doubt, it's to not play stupid. Also, I'm pretty sure most people, including you, gave Luffy the BotD before Gear 4. Or did you think he was way weaker than Zoro up until the Gear 4 reveal? And don't say that gear 2/3 Luffy had better feats than Zoro post-TS, because that isn't even remotely true. So don't say that we don't give other characters the BotD, because that's a completely false statement.


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## Lawliet (May 20, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> Comparing Dragon to Zoro
> 
> Yup defo's the RH of this section.
> 
> Fking idiot.



The only fucking idiot is you for not understanding what he's saying. 

inb4 "I understood what he meant".

Then I get to say, you just proved that a person can be dumb and dumber.


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## Yuki (May 20, 2015)

oOLawlietOo said:


> The only fucking idiot is you for not understanding what he's saying.
> 
> inb4 "I understood what he meant".
> 
> Then I get to say, you just proved that a person can be dumb and dumber.



No i'm really not, and your just as bad as he is if you think what he said is logical at all.

Zoro is not Dragon or anyone else with admiral + hype. 

Zoro does need the feats because he does not have the hype to put him above DD. Dragon does, therefore it's not the same at all.

If Zoro has the hype then yea sure i would understand, but he does not. Zoro is not going to be stronger than Luffy, both Luffy and Zoro have around the same endurance wise and DD has proven to be much more durable and have much more endurance than Luffy therefore he also has much more than Zoro and DD is one attack from being put down. 

So fuck DD is injured, so is Luffy which has obviously impacted G4s power AND time.

I don't normally say things this way because i give up on this section and 90% of the posters in it so now i just insult and leave, but there my first actual trying post this month. Congrats for getting it out of me.


----------



## ShadoLord (May 20, 2015)

Juvia

You for real right now?


----------



## Yuki (May 20, 2015)

Lord Wave said:


> Juvia
> 
> You for real right now?



I have nothing at all to say to the likes of you.

Pretty sure i have 50% of the OL ignored now. >_> 

I should just fking leave and and safe my self the brain ache from posting in the second worst OP section on the net. 

Like literally, the only place worse than this is where people think Vista can still solo the SHs.


----------



## ShadoLord (May 20, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> I have nothing at all to say to the likes of you.



Are you sure it's alright for _you_ to call me ignorant?


----------



## Typhon (May 20, 2015)

oOLawlietOo said:


> Given what he did pre skip is not enough for you to give you an estimate on what he can do now? But apparently, not doing anything on panel is more than enough for you to make a clear judgement, isn't it?


I gave Zoro an estimate. He falls in line with the other supernova, not go above them.




> We do this with every character. This is what it means to speculate, invent theories (Theories needs to be based on something and we are basing them on Zoro's growth along with his pre skip performance).


Yet to no other character then Zoro do we assume he's capable of ridiculous feats. Go ahead and check the G4 Luffy vs Sanji thread that this stemmed from and see people coming up with "plausible" theories on how Sanji could survive G4 Luffy.



> Zoro has been highlighted to be a tank throughout the entire series. To think after two straight years of training with the WSS and the fact that he's the only strawhat to lose something due to his training (his eye) should tell you how harsh his training was in comparison to the rest of his crew and you still won't consider the idea that Zoro's durability and endurance jumped levels and levels the same way everything in Zoro did? His lethality, his physical strength, his haki, everything in him, except his durability, at least according to you.


Zoro is a tank, sure. A tank at the same level as Doflamingo just because? lol no I don't think so.




Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Dragon has not shown anything must have much weaker durability then doflamingo people



Not even the same thing. I straight out said Zoro hasn't done anything to Warrant him having Doffy level durability. Dragon's hype alone warrants it.



Dunno said:


> Noone's asked you to give Zoro the benefit of the doubt. Just look at what he's done so far: He successfully defended from Fujitora when he was caught off-guard by him (the ground below Zoro actually had to give away for his guard to break, and he broke out of Fuji's attack moments later.). He clashed with Fujitora once more and came out unharmed. He beat Monet (who actually gave Luffy a lot of trouble) without breaking a sweat. He beat Pica without breaking a sweat. He beat Hyouzou much easier than Luffy beat Hody, even though Hyouzou was much stronger in base and they both overdosed.



Was on his knees panting after breaking out.

Doffy's feats crap on those, but I'm supposed to give Zoro the benefit of a doubt?


> To acknowledge that Zoro hasn't even been close to going all out isn't to give Zoro the benefit of the doubt, it's to not play stupid. Also, I'm pretty sure most people, including you, gave Luffy the BotD before Gear 4. Or did you think he was way weaker than Zoro up until the Gear 4 reveal? And don't say that gear 2/3 Luffy had better feats than Zoro post-TS, because that isn't even remotely true. So don't say that we don't give other characters the BotD, because that's a completely false statement.



1. Putting Zoro's durability and endurance on Doflamingo's level is ridiculous, flat out. That would put Zoro much higher over Luffy and Law, which isn't true.

2. All Zoro ever had over Luffy was portrayal. When it comes to actual feats, Luffy was in Zoro's league or surpassed it even before G4 came around.


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## Lawliet (May 20, 2015)

talking to you two is like talking to a wall that has the ability to talk back. 



> Zoro is a tank, sure. A tank at the same level as Doflamingo just because? lol no I don't think so.



The fact that after all the talk me, Coru, DD and others gave and you still say shit like "just because?" proves my point of you being a wall that has the ability to talk back.

Have a good day, sir.


----------



## The Bloody Nine (May 21, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> You are in absolutely no position to go claiming that Ashura would make no fucking difference in an all-out fight against Luffy*. It's far more ridiculous and unlikely that it would make little to no difference than that it would make one*.



Actually i disagree. Again because i'm basing this on what actually happened in the manga. Joker, who is stronger than Zoro, pulled out his trump card in awakening. AND IT MADE NO DIFFERENCE. But it is somehow more likely that when Zoro, who is weaker, pulls out his trump card it will make a  big one ?




Coruscation said:


> You can compare and speculate all you want. Far be it from me to try and stop you. What I'm asking is that you *acknowledge it's just speculation* and much of it is baseless.





1) Ofcourse this is speculation. This is the battledome, its what we do. 

2) My speculation is NOT baseless. Everything i have said has been based on what happened when a stronger character than Zoro went up against G4. Your arguments however HAVE been baseless. Again according to battledome rules we base all our speculation on feat, portrayal and hype. I checked all your posts in this thread and you haven't supplied a single post-skip feat for Zoro in your defence. Everything you argued is based off  what you think Zoro could _possibly_ be capable of because he has yet to show us his limits. 

Dunno did better; at the very least he supplied us with Zoro's portrayal against Fuji which was pretty good. That is SOMETHING. Again its not nearly enough because preskip Luffy did just as well against Aokiji right up until he decided to stop fucking around and freeze his ass. But its something!

You mentioned inference, its a good word. So here is my single-sentence logical inference from everything we have seen so far in the manga:

*DD got trashed by G4 Luffy therefore Zoro, who is weaker than DD, will get trashed even harder.*

I've been trying to work out your inference and i'm still not sure i get it. If you had to sum up your argument in one sentence what would it be ? Something like:

*
Zoro hasn't gone all-out yet so maybe he's as strong as DD after all.

Zoro is weaker overall but his endurance is so much better he'll still be in fighting condition after taking more clean G4 hits than DD. 

Zoro has a better matchup against G4 because using swords is so much better than being faster, more durable and having a shit-ton more utility.  
*
Can't be the first one, you have already admitted Zoro is weaker than DD. I think only Extravlad and MajestyMihawk believe that.  But the other two are also at least equally as ridiculous. I think if we are being honest your argument really boils down to -* Because he's Zoro! And Oda would never make him look so bad. *

And to be fair its actually probably a pretty fair argument. But then again based on what we have seen from the timeskip so far the only reason Zoro wouldn't look bad in this situation is because Oda would have Luffy run off and do nothing for 50 chapters after their opening trade. Or in the more likely scenario - it would be Sanji that has to end up fighting G4 Luffy while Zoro was on the other side of the island fighting Brooke and spouting of "badass" one liners.


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## Lawliet (May 21, 2015)

> Joker, who is stronger than Zoro, pulled out his trump card in awakening. AND IT MADE NO DIFFERENCE. But it is somehow more likely that when Zoro, who is weaker, pulls out his trump card it will make a big one ?



It made a difference. It gave him 20 more minutes. Zoro's trump card should do the same thing.


----------



## Freechoice (May 21, 2015)

Bloody Nine

fuck

that dude should win MotM

absolutely demolishing Corus and co.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 21, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> Comparing Dragon to Zoro
> 
> Yup defo's the RH of this section.
> 
> Fking idiot.



I see Dragon and Doflamingo's names in my post That's it.

Although I don't blame you. Sometimes I see Zoro's name in posts when they are not their, it's like he transcends space and time.


----------



## Yuki (May 21, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> I see Dragon and Doflamingo's names in my post That's it.
> 
> Although I don't blame you. Sometimes I see Zoro's name in posts when they are not their, it's like he transcends space and time.



It's pretty clear that Zoro is the reason in the message. >_>



oOLawlietOo said:


> It made a difference. It gave him 20 more minutes. Zoro's trump card should do the same thing.



Cannot believe there was a time when i considered you a good poster. FML.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 21, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> It's pretty clear that Zoro is the reason in the message. >_>
> 
> 
> 
> Cannot believe there was a time when i considered you a good poster. FML.



And yet Zoro's name was not in my post interesting.


----------



## trance (May 21, 2015)

Zoro's most highlighted attribute is his freakish endurance but as of now, we have no remote idea what he's _fully_ capable of enduring in comparison to Doffy. I want to give him benefit of the doubt but I'm still iffy on it.


----------



## Coruscation (May 21, 2015)

Typhon said:
			
		

> Are you kidding me? Your only argument is that "He's Zoro and given what he did pre-skip..."
> 
> Zoro hasn't shown anything. And I'm not about to give him the benefit of a doubt as all you Zoro-fans love to do so much. We don't do this for any other character, but when it comes to Zoro, lets all make bull shit assumptions on how Zoro could low diff anyone except an Admiral because he has Asura and hasn't gone all out yet.



Yes. He's Zoro, which means he is the internally proclaimed toughest member of the crew, and he has the highest raw damage soaking feats from pre-skip, including a feat of taking his own plus Luffy's limit damage and still staying conscious. THAT'S A GOOD ARGUMENT. It's citing things that are actually *in* the manga as evidence. What are you doing? Not a single thing. You have zero evidence, nothing to back you up. You're literally just spouting off assertions with absolutely no supporting evidence or even reasoning. It's just "because I say so".

How the fuck are we not giving any other character the benefit of the doubt? Didn't you see people giving Luffy the benefit of the doubt he'd be able to perform better against Doffy eventually despite not having had the chance to show it yet? Isn't that what we've been fucking doing for Luffy since the bloody timeskip started? So how about doing the same for Zoro now that Luffy is the one who has shown more? But no. Of course you wouldn't because you're a hater. So now you're doing the opposite: concluding that Zoro is crap to G4 and crap to Doffy because he hasn't had the chance to show his full power yet.



> And you don't do the opposite? Should I go ahead and quote the five or so posts from you?
> 
> I said Zoro was left on his knees after the attack. Fact.



No I don't. Whatever you can find will probably just reveal you as a hater for thinking that it is a fanboyish statement. And the other green-hating sheep might bleat, but that won't change anything.

A surprise attack from an Admiral hit Zoro and he bled. He then repelled the attack head-on which caused the Admiral to call his attack ferocious. Once he got back onto the ground he was briefly on one knee from the effort exerted.

*And you try to use that as a negative feat for Zoro which implies he's piss weak compared to Doflamingo in endurance.*

You are acting like an insane hater. Your attempts at downplaying and demeaning Zoro are completely clouding any sort of rational thinking or fair approach you can have in evaluating Zoro. There's nothing else to say here.


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## Deleted member 211714 (May 21, 2015)

Zoro's endurance should be just as good as Doffy's own, if not better. Like Trance had stated, it is one of his greatest attributes, whereas Doflamingo is more rounded in other aspects that make him as strong as we've seen. That said, Luffy would have to wear down Zoro with his other modes before coming out with G4, which I do think he's capable of doing. Even though I do think Luffy is stronger overall, Zoro can still kill his captain around half of the time and probably force a draw in most fights.


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## Sir Curlyhat (May 21, 2015)

_About Fujitora calling Zoro's attack ferocious, it's interesting that Mihawk said the exact same thing about him back in East Blue


*Spoiler*:  








Does the translation make it the same or was it the exact same word in the raw as well ?_


----------



## Coruscation (May 21, 2015)

Stephen's translation is this:



			
				Stephen's old translations said:
			
		

> "Mihawk: What violent swords..."



Cnet translates Fujitora as such:



			
				Cnet said:
			
		

> "Fujitora: ...............!! // Flying sword-strikes... How brutal.



Mihawk is disparagingly commenting on how Zoro's style is violet and unrefined as seen by his nonchalant deflections and "..." ending his sentence. Whereas Fujitora's _"...................!!"_ reaction and being briefly pushed back whilst blocking makes clear he's not at all making a comment like that.


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## Sir Curlyhat (May 21, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> Stephen's translation is this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



_
Thank you for the clarification !_


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## Amol (May 21, 2015)

Lets assume Zoro has physical strength of Jozu because he is shown physical powerhouse so far .
It seems weaker one doesn't actually need to prove having his stats equal to stronger guy with feats (durability, endurance with DD).
Lets also assume that Zoro's CoA is as strong as DD or Zoro's physically stronger than DD because you want to.
Classic example of not knowing how burden of proof works.


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## Coruscation (May 21, 2015)

You are accusing people who demand evidence of Doflamingo's asserted "vast superiority" to Zoro in the area of endurance of not understanding burden of proof?

That's rich. Maybe you should start reading and then post.


----------



## Bernkastel (May 21, 2015)

DD has actuall feats.Tanking many attacks from Law/Luffy while later he is shown standing up even after a barrage of G4 attacks. 

Zoro would never survive the attacks DD survived from Law let alone both of them together..at least not with his current non-existent endurance feats.

People need to realise that Zoro's best feat so far is one-shotting Pica.It's silly to assume he is close to DD in stats.


----------



## HisMajestyMihawk (May 21, 2015)

Corus please dont waste time arguing with the trolls. Rational OP fans have already accepted that Zoro >= Luffy


----------



## Dunno (May 21, 2015)

Typhon said:


> Was on his knees panting after breaking out.
> 
> Doffy's feats crap on those, but I'm supposed to give Zoro the benefit of a doubt?



Yes, Zoro couldn't effortlessly block an admiral when he was caught off-guard. Only someone moderately stronger could do that, and Zoro is definitely not stronger than an Admiral. It still shows that not only can Zoro defend against an admiral, but he can do so when being caught off-guard. The feat is comparable to Doflamingo's defense against Aokiji. Compare those feats to Luffy's feats against Bellamy and Hody and you can get a clear picture of how Zoro's defense stacks up against G2/3 Luffy's. 



Typhon said:


> 1. Putting Zoro's durability and endurance on Doflamingo's level is ridiculous, flat out. That would put Zoro much higher over Luffy and Law, which isn't true.
> 
> 2. All Zoro ever had over Luffy was portrayal. When it comes to actual feats, Luffy was in Zoro's league or surpassed it even before G4 came around.



Putting Zoro's durability ad endurance on a half dead Doflamingo's level is what's ridiculous. Zoro has always been able to take more damage than Luffy. On TB we got a direct comparison between Luffy and Zoro when it comes to damage soaking, and Zoro came out quite a bit ahead. 

Luffy's non-G4 feats have been bad post-TS. He was pushed quite far by Hody and Don Chinjao. Bellamy also managed to do real damage to Luffy, if we are to believe Doflamingo. Zoro on the other hand has cut through his opposition like butter, with the exception of Fujitora. As I stated above, Zoro took less damage from a surprise attack from Fujitora than Luffy did from a frontal attack by Hody. That says quite a lot.


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## Firo (May 21, 2015)

Even with powerscaling, nada says he has grown enough  to tank shit like G4. Powerscaling in general is inconsistent as fuck.


----------



## Typhon (May 21, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> Yes. He's Zoro, which means he is the internally proclaimed toughest member of the crew, and he has the highest raw damage soaking feats from pre-skip, including a feat of taking his own plus Luffy's limit damage and still staying conscious. THAT'S A GOOD ARGUMENT. It's citing things that are actually *in* the manga as evidence. What are you doing? Not a single thing. You have zero evidence, nothing to back you up. You're literally just spouting off assertions with absolutely no supporting evidence or even reasoning. It's just "because I say so".


Corus, unless you don't know what the word "warrant" means. There is no point in further debating with you.


> How the fuck are we not giving any other character the benefit of the doubt? Didn't you see people giving Luffy the benefit of the doubt he'd be able to perform better against Doffy eventually despite not having had the chance to show it yet? Isn't that what we've been fucking doing for Luffy since the bloody timeskip started? So how about doing the same for Zoro now that Luffy is the one who has shown more? But no. Of course you wouldn't because you're a hater. So now you're doing the opposite: concluding that Zoro is crap to G4 and crap to Doffy because he hasn't had the chance to show his full power yet.



Or because it is fucking logical that Zoro can't do shit to Doflamingo and he is obviously superior. 

It is ridiculous to put Zoro on DD's level just because that is his forte as I've said. We don't give other characters better feats on the level of someone stronger just because that is their forte.





> No I don't. Whatever you can find will probably just reveal you as a hater for thinking that it is a fanboyish statement. And the other green-hating sheep might bleat, but that won't change anything.



Bull shit. Your opening post is nothing but Zoro wanking. "The monstrosity that is Zoro" lol



> A surprise attack from an Admiral hit Zoro and he bled. He then repelled the attack head-on which caused the Admiral to call his attack ferocious. Once he got back onto the ground he was briefly on one knee from the effort exerted.
> 
> *And you try to use that as a negative feat for Zoro which implies he's piss weak compared to Doflamingo in endurance.*


Was he not on his knees afterwards? You can try dodging that point all you want, but that is what happened


> You are acting like an insane hater. Your attempts at downplaying and demeaning Zoro are completely clouding any sort of rational thinking or fair approach you can have in evaluating Zoro. There's nothing else to say here.


Pot calling the kettle.




Dunno said:


> Yes, Zoro couldn't effortlessly block an admiral when he was caught off-guard. Only someone moderately stronger could do that, and Zoro is definitely not stronger than an Admiral. It still shows that not only can Zoro defend against an admiral, but he can do so when being caught off-guard. The feat is comparable to Doflamingo's defense against Aokiji. Compare those feats to Luffy's feats against Bellamy and Hody and you can get a clear picture of how Zoro's defense stacks up against G2/3 Luffy's.



Problem here is that Zoro didn't defend against the attack, he countered. So how does that compare in anyway to Luffy against Hody and Bellamy?





> Putting Zoro's durability ad endurance on a half dead Doflamingo's level is what's ridiculous. Zoro has always been able to take more damage than Luffy. On TB we got a direct comparison between Luffy and Zoro when it comes to damage soaking, and Zoro came out quite a bit ahead.


And it left Zoro handicapped until timeskip started. I don't know how many times that I need to keep telling people that it is a endurance feat and what Luffy did through all of ID and Marineford is just as impressive in that regard. Or is Luffy shaving years off his life to stay alive not that impressive?



> Luffy's non-G4 feats have been bad post-TS. He was pushed quite far by Hody and Don Chinjao. Bellamy also managed to do real damage to Luffy, if we are to believe Doflamingo. Zoro on the other hand has cut through his opposition like butter, with the exception of Fujitora. As I stated above, Zoro took less damage from a surprise attack from Fujitora than Luffy did from a frontal attack by Hody. That says quite a lot.


It took Zoro 20 something chapters to beat Pica...


----------



## Coruscation (May 21, 2015)

Typhon said:
			
		

> Corus, unless you don't know what the word "warrant" means. There is no point in further debating with you.



I know what it means. You clearly do not.



> Or because it is fucking logical that Zoro can't do shit to Doflamingo and he is obviously superior.
> 
> It is ridiculous to put Zoro on DD's level just because that is his forte as I've said.



What the fuck do you know about what Zoro can or can't do to Doflamingo? You are literally just. spouting. bullshit. That's ALL YOU'RE DOING. You HAVE NOT SEEN Zoro's full power. You don't know what his max capacity is. You, or at least plenty of people, were rightfully giving Luffy the benefit of the doubt he'd be able to do something to Doffy when he finally got around to it even though he just kept getting his ass beat by Doffy. And he was. So yes. We do give people the benefit of the doubt. You don't have to do it for Zoro but you need to acknowledge the possibility unless you're a biased hater. And you sure as fucking hell can't sit and spout what Zoro DEFINITIVELY is and isn't when he's barely been pushed in the slightest and you have no clue what his max power is.



> Bull shit. Your opening post is nothing but Zoro wanking. "The monstrosity that is Zoro" lol



The fact that you think it's fanboyish to call Zoro's *damage soak and endurance* monstrous proves exactly what I said. That you're doing nothing but mindlessly hating and downplaying.



> Was he not on his knees afterwards? You can try dodging that point all you want, but that is what happened



It was AN ADMIRAL. A Yonkou level individual. That surprise attacked him. I don't need to dodge a damn thing. The fact that this happened:

_A surprise attack from an Admiral hit Zoro and he bled. He then repelled the attack head-on which caused the Admiral to call his attack ferocious. Once he got back onto the ground he was briefly on one knee from the effort exerted._

is all the evidence anyone with a half-functioning brain and a halfway fair-minded mentality needs to see that you're doing nothing but spouting inane bullshit by trying to cite Zoro's encounter with Fuji as something that proves he is garbage compared to Doffy in endurance and damage soak. If they can't see that they're as blinded by hating as you are in which case their opinion hardly matters.


----------



## kidgogeta (May 21, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> Pretty sure i have 50% of the OL ignored now. >_>



You're a Fairy Tail Fan, emotionally  fragile, and you've  never presented a decent argument since you started posting in OL. Who the fuck cares?

Regarding the actual thread.... honestly its not worth debating anything Zoro related until Wano.  You either acknowledge Zoros feats and know how to power scale or you don't.This is the BATTLEDOME. Don't come in here and bitch about or try to disregard proper use of  power scaling off of past feats.


----------



## Amol (May 21, 2015)

There is no point in debating with someone who has superiority complex.
OT:
To put things in perspective:
Luffy and Law both are stronger than Zoro .
What does it mean?
It mean they both has enough attack power which can overpower Zoro's durability and endurance resulting in Zoro's defeat.
Take a note that *either Luffy or Law can exhaust this 'monstrous' endurance of Zoro*.
Now on the other there is Doflamingo.
He took on everything Law had .
He took on everything Luffy had.
And he is still standing while those two are not .
It means *their combine attack power was not enough to overpower DD's durability and endurance.*
So use your brain if you have one and tell me that Zoro's durability and endurance is on DD's level.
Because it is not.
It is common sense but apparently few lacks it .
You do not give weaker character feats of stronger character for shit and giggles . Unless proven otherwise DD has better stats than Zoro. That is how it works.
Zolo wanking is making record in this thread.


----------



## Firo (May 21, 2015)

But mah Zoro.


----------



## Coruscation (May 21, 2015)

Amol said:


> There is no point in debating with someone who has superiority complex.
> OT:
> To put things in perspective:
> Luffy and Law both are stronger than Zoro .
> ...



Because _context_ is not a thing. 

Blanket statements are all that matter.

Because characters are only good for what they've shown and what we can reasonably speculate they might have doesn't matter. 

So as we all know and as we all saw was the totally correct conclusion, Luffy is totally incapable of dealing serious damage to DD. Because before G4 he never did. And if a character hasn't shown it, they can't do it. As we all know.

Why are you siding with the trendy anti-Zoro movement anyway? You should know you are more likely than not to be the one to end up having to eat your words when Zoro finally gets pushed to his limit and brings out Ashura.


----------



## Dunno (May 21, 2015)

Amol said:


> There is no point in debating with someone who has superiority complex.
> OT:
> To put things in perspective:
> Luffy and Law both are stronger than Zoro .
> ...



No-one is debating that Luffy is weaker than Zoro. Or at least I am not. I'm debating that Zoro isn't that much weaker than Luffy that he can't win against a handicapped version of the latter. 100% Luffy would win against 100% Zoro. 100% Zoro would win against 90% Luffy. That's at least my opinion. Also, Zoro doesn't need to have better endurance than Doflamingo to withstand Gear 4 and be fine, he just needs to have good enough endurance that it's on par with that of a moderately injured Doflamingo. Luffy low or mid diffing? That's some of the most senseless wank I've ever seen.


----------



## Lawliet (May 21, 2015)

Zoro being on his knees after Fujitora's attack is the dumbest argument i've ever heard in a while and I've been talking to Spiro a couple days ago, that should tell you something. 

How in the hell you expect a dude to get out of a really really deep hole? Explain to me please. Unless that dude can fly in an upward motion like Doffy/Superman/Sanji/whoever, then that fucking dude has to land on something because he's jumping as high as needed to get out of the hole and eventually land on the freaking ground. Now, imagine this. Is he going on his knees for half a second to show some effort and the fact that he just took a surprise attack from an admiral , the highest rank in the marines or jump as high as needed and land on both his feet standing tall which would look dumb as fuck from a reader's perspective let alone a plot's perspective.


----------



## Lawliet (May 21, 2015)

Amol said:


> There is no point in debating with someone who has superiority complex.
> OT:
> To put things in perspective:
> Luffy and Law both are stronger than Zoro .
> ...



I'll be a smart ass like you are and use this argument. 

Zoro took on everything Luffy had during TB on top of everything HE had and was still standing afterwards. It means everything that Luffy accumulated during that arc on top of everything Zoro accumulated  was not enough to overpower Zoro's durability and endurance.

Why can't a 100% healthy Zoro take on everything Luffy and Law suffered this arc and still stand afterwards? He already did something really really similar pre skip. I suspect that Zoro can really do it and it means everything that Luffy and Law accumulated which was done by Doffy himself was not enough to overpower Zoro's durability and endurance.


----------



## Maruo (May 21, 2015)

Zoro's standing feat is sometimes really exaggerated. He was able to take on all that damage without fainting because he had to. Do you think he would still be standing if he had no incentive to not faint? There's no way to know for sure that Luffy couldn't have pulled the same stunt. Luffy fainted because of the accumulated damage as well as the fact that (as far as he knew) there was no compelling reason for him to remain standing. If Luffy had to take the same damage Zoro had to without fainting in order to protect his crew, there's a very high chance he would have been able to do it.


----------



## Lawliet (May 21, 2015)

Luffy's body has been shown to give up the moment it gives up. Lucci vs Luffy is just prime example. Luffy was watching his crew struggle against a buster call and his body still refused to move. The fact that he lost conciseness should tell you how tired he really was. He couldn't move even if his own life and entire crew depended on it.


----------



## Tapion (May 21, 2015)

Thought that was due to DF overuse, or something along those lines. Chopper was in the same situation after going monster point iirc.


----------



## HisMajestyMihawk (May 21, 2015)

Amol said:


> There is no point in debating with someone who has superiority complex.
> OT:
> To put things in perspective:
> Luffy and Law both are stronger than Zoro .
> ...





troll post

didnt read and certainly not worth a serious reply


----------



## The Bloody Nine (May 21, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> Because characters are only good for what they've shown and what we can* reasonably* speculate they might have doesn't matter.





Coruscation said:


> *And you try to use that as a negative feat for Zoro which implies he's piss weak compared to Doflamingo in endurance.*





You keep spouting this strawman; literally no one in this thread has said Zoro's endurance is shit compared to DD, not a single one. Most people, think its around the same level. 

And its disgusting how you keep pretending your powerscaling is more "reasonable" and "likely" than mine when its the complete opposite. 

For instance in the real world bookies make bets - what's more likely - based on past results and different opponent's pedigrees. So its LIKELY that Zoro, a weaker character that hasn't really shown much postskip, has less endurance than the person who has given us the best tanking feats in the manga outside of bonafide top-tiers like WB, AKainu and BB. That's what's actually likely. 

Its PLAUSIBLE that Zoro has as good or slightly better endurance than DD because afterall his preskip endurance feats were great  and Luffy was slightly faster than DD. There is precedence. For the record this is what I believe. 

But it is EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY UNLIKELY to say Zoro has MUCH, MUCH better endurance than DD.  Because that is what you are saying when you claim that Zoro who, as the slower less durable character, will have to take alot more punishment than DD ever did and still be in fighting condition after G4 is done. 

DD only took 4 hits and its all he can do to stand, but Zoro will take more hits and defend himself far worse but still be able to find and hurt Luffy afterwards ? You're not powerscaling him up to DD level, you're powerscaling him above it to that WB, AKainu tier. Its fucking retarded. 



Dunno said:


> Putting Zoro's durability ad endurance on a half dead Doflamingo's level is what's ridiculous.





And yet it was this "half dead" DD that no-sold G2 Bazooka and barrage of G2 attacks. And I sure as shit can't see Zoro doing the same. Zoro's edurance might be better but his durability/CoA will be no where near. 




Dunno said:


> Luffy low or mid diffing? That's some of the most senseless wank I've ever seen.





G4 is Luffy's nuclear option. He's as helpless as a child when it's done; he won't use it until he absolutely has to and when he does the fight automatically becomes high diff IMO. Zoro would definitely push Luffy in his g2/g3 states but yeah IMO when Luffy finally goes G4 the fight is over. There is no basis in the manga for thinking Zoro could survive it.


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## MYJC (May 22, 2015)

The Bloody Nine said:


> I actually can't believe people think Zoro has any sort of chance at surviving G4.This is the most ridiculous wankery i've seen in ages.
> 
> Zoro is not Doflamingo!
> 
> ...





Yeah...Zoro is probably my favorite character in the series, but sometimes his fans are embarrassing. I mean putting him above a monster like Doffy as well as his own captain? The Zoro wank is crazy lately and he hasn't even done anything since the Pika fight.


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## Lawliet (May 22, 2015)

MYJC said:


> Yeah...Zoro is probably my favorite character in the series, but sometimes his fans are embarrassing. I mean putting him above a monster like Doffy as well as his own captain? The Zoro wank is crazy lately and he hasn't even done anything since the Pika fight.



Who the hell is putting him above Doflamingo. Just because one aspect of Zoro (durability in this topic) is higher than Doffy's doesn't mean that Zoro is overall stronger. Zoro has been highlighted to be tank throughout the series. If Zoro has Doffy's durability or even more, that doesn't mean he can take on Law and Luffy and do the same thing Doffy did to them. That's just one aspect of what makes them a who they are. Doflamingo has other traits which makes him overall, stronger than Zoro, durability doesn't have to be one of them the same way speed wasn't one of them with Luffy either.

And no one is saying Zoro DOES have Doffy's durability. We're saying it's not out of the question.


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## Coruscation (May 22, 2015)

The Bloody Nine said:


> You keep spouting this strawman; literally no one in this thread has said Zoro's endurance is shit compared to DD, not a single one. Most people, think its around the same level.
> 
> And its disgusting how you keep pretending your powerscaling is more "reasonable" and "likely" than mine when its the complete opposite.
> 
> ...



You can quit wasting keyboard wear. I'm not responding to someone who can't muster anything else than tl;dr strawmen. Start debating properly, starting with my previous response which you just blurted out a bunch of crap in response to, if you have any interest in a further discussion.

No one has said Zoro's endurance is way below DD's? What a joke. Take a look at these stunning examples of shining fair character evaluation:



			
				tanman said:
			
		

> The beating given to Dofla should be sufficient to K.O. Zoro.



(if 4 hits to a heavily injured Doffy KO Zoro, Zoro's endurance is much worse)



			
				Typhon said:
			
		

> Zoro is nowhere near Doflamingo in what he can take and recover from.



This is the _absurdly_ assertive statement I initially responded to. What were you saying again?



			
				Amol said:
			
		

> DD outclasses any M3 level fighter in everything.
> Zoro doesn't have DD level durability or endurance.



DD "outclasses" Zoro in endurance.

Then who knows what the bleating sheep who don't make arguments for themselves think. Probably something close to the above asserted opinions.


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## Zuhaitz (May 22, 2015)

Luffy one shoots him /thread

Luffy is way above Zoro for what we have seen.


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## Typhon (May 22, 2015)

Yeah, I'm done. The amount of reaching and walk around s to justify these absurd notions is too ridiculous for me.

The Zoro wank is too much. If you think Zoro going all out is gonna be more of a threat then the MC, you're delusional.


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## Freechoice (May 22, 2015)

He is delusional


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## Dunno (May 22, 2015)

The Bloody Nine said:


> You keep spouting this strawman; *literally no one in this thread has said Zoro's endurance is shit compared to DD*, not a single one. Most people, think its around the same level.
> 
> And its disgusting how you keep pretending your powerscaling is more "reasonable" and "likely" than mine when its the complete opposite.
> 
> ...



People say that Zoro's endurance is quite a lot worse than the endurance of a seriously damaged Doflamingo. That's basically saying it's shit compared to Doflamingo's. We're talking a fresh Zoro compared to a Doflamingo with messed up insides who's also taken a few hits from Luffy afterwards.




The Bloody Nine said:


> And yet it was this "half dead" DD that no-sold G2 Bazooka and barrage of G2 attacks. And I sure as shit can't see Zoro doing the same. Zoro's edurance might be better but his durability/CoA will be no where near.
> 
> 
> Don Chinjao did the same. G2 doesn't have the power it used to have. I can definitely see Zoro do it too. We have no negative CoA feat from Zoro like we have with Luffy and Vergo. We haven't seen his haki fail, and thus we don't know how strong it is.
> ...



I agree that Luffy could take down Zoro in G4 if he got to use it when he had worn Zoro down a bit in G2 first. In this scenario though, Luffy is force to start in G4 against a completely fresh Zoro, and in that specific scenario I don't think he'll win.


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## yantos (May 22, 2015)

the most people i despise  in the world are those who spread the word retard whenever they cant find something to argue with.... if the guy is a retard as somone claims then proving him wrong and refuting his argument is pretty easy  yet they just keep saying retard or wanker just to feel like they some how with those magic word proved him wrong


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## Dunno (May 22, 2015)

Typhon said:


> Yeah, I'm done. The amount of reaching and walk around s to justify these absurd notions is too ridiculous for me.
> 
> The Zoro wank is too much. If you think Zoro going all out is gonna be more of a threat then the MC, you're delusional.



You are either seriously misunderstanding everything in this thread, or you are pretending to. Nobody has claimed that Zoro in stronger or more of a threat than Luffy. What's been claimed is that Zoro isn't much weaker than Luffy. That's it.


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## KILLERRR (May 22, 2015)

Did everyone who think Luffy wins this fight ignored the fact that Luffy *STARTS* at Gear 4 against a *100%* Zoro? 

I don't think anyone is arguing that Luffy would beat Zoro in a fight under normal conditions. Gear 4 probably lasts 30 min.-1 hr., I don't think Luffy can beat Zoro or even Sanji in less than an hour in a regular fight. Minus PIS, it has been shown that fights between those around the same level of power can last for days.


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## Yuki (May 22, 2015)

Dunno said:


> People say that Zoro's endurance is quite a lot worse than the endurance of a seriously damaged Doflamingo. That's basically saying it's shit compared to Doflamingo's. We're talking a fresh Zoro compared to a Doflamingo with messed up insides who's also taken a few hits from Luffy afterwards.



No we are not, because Luffy is worn down as well. G4 Luffy at 100% would not only deal more damage and probably be faster making him deal EVEN MORE damage, but it would also last longer as well.



yantos said:


> the most people i despise  in the world are those who spread the word retard whenever they cant find something to argue with.... if the guy is a retard as somone claims then proving him wrong and refuting his argument is pretty easy  yet they just keep saying retard or wanker just to feel like they some how with those magic word proved him wrong



Lol, you are clearly new here.

Some people here don't give a shit if you completely prove them wrong. They will just keep saying the same BS over and over again and laugh at you in your attempt to make them see reason calling "you" the idiot wanker. 

At a certain point it gets far too tiresome and you just give up trying to debate with those people. As such insults fly instead.


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## Zuhaitz (May 22, 2015)

A single punch of Luffy would destroy Zoro, Zoro can't even cut DD's strings with his super swords and his super haki


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## Dunno (May 22, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> No we are not, because Luffy is worn down as well. G4 Luffy at 100% would not only deal more damage and probably be faster making him deal EVEN MORE damage, but it would also last longer as well.



Yes, Luffy was also worn down. Not as much as Doflamingo though, as the only damage he sustained prior to the fight against Doflamingo was from Bellamy, and he can't really compare to the attacks Doflamingo took from Law. Also, the damage output has never really been shown to decrease that much when people are worn out in One Piece, it's more often been shown to increase due to an increase in fighting spirit and determination. Although I agree taking damage should lessen the damage output somewhat, it doesn't lessen it as much as it lessens the ability to take damage.

50% Luffy in gear 4 would be able to take down 50% Zoro. 100% Luffy in gear 4 would not be able to take down 100% Zoro. At least that's how I view it.


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## HisMajestyMihawk (May 23, 2015)

Must be spring 

the Zoro-haters are out and multiplying faster than insects


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## Canute87 (May 23, 2015)

Zuhaitz said:


> *A single punch of Luffy would destroy Zoro*, Zoro can't even cut DD's strings with his super swords and his super haki



No.


You know this is part of the problem  people going from one extreme to the next.



You want to know why  Zoro will lose to G4 luffy? 

Because he can't fucking fly, his techniques are predictable and nowhere near as flexible or as fast
The entire battleground was flamingo's weapon.  Zoro doesn't have that, it's just that simple. 

Luffy is going to hit Zoro far more times than he hit flamingo, and that will bring him down.


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## Imagine (May 23, 2015)

Dunno said:


> Yes, Luffy was also worn down. Not as much as Doflamingo though, as the only damage he sustained prior to the fight against Doflamingo was from Bellamy, and he can't really compare to the attacks Doflamingo took from Law. Also, the damage output has never really been shown to decrease that much when people are worn out in One Piece, it's more often been shown to increase due to an increase in fighting spirit and determination. Although I agree taking damage should lessen the damage output somewhat, it doesn't lessen it as much as it lessens the ability to take damage.
> 
> *50% Luffy in gear 4 would be able to take down 50% Zoro. 100% Luffy in gear 4 would not be able to take down 100% Zoro.* At least that's how I view it.



              .


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## Ghost (May 23, 2015)

Imagine you pleb. Clearly you can't comprehend the logic of a mind on a higher plane  than yours.


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## tanman (May 23, 2015)

151 posts on this topic.
The Zolo fanboyism is strong in this forum.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 23, 2015)

tanman said:


> 151 posts on this topic.
> The Zolo fanboyism is strong in this forum.



Not as much as luffy.

Need i bring up all the posts of people saying Luffy is admiral level of Luffy can give high diff to admirals. And that's before G4. 

Even the extreme zoro fanboys like vlad admit Admirals would give Zoro the beat down.


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## Bernkastel (May 23, 2015)

Imagine said:


> .



He propably means that Luffy can't beat Zoro with G4 if Zoro isn't worn out first thus why he would beat 50% but not 100%. At least that's the only "logic" way to interpret this i think.


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## Sherlōck (May 23, 2015)

What's next? Zoro has same level of durability as Akainu cause he hasn't shown his limit yet?


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## Canute87 (May 23, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Not as much as luffy.
> 
> *Need i bring up all the posts of people saying Luffy is admiral level of Luffy can give high diff to admirals. And that's before G4. *
> 
> Even the extreme zoro fanboys like vlad admit Admirals would give Zoro the beat down.




Apart from Jayjay.  Yes


Extravlad believes Zoro clashed evenly with Fujitora.  maybe he's changed from that I'm not sure.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 23, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> Apart from Jayjay.  Yes
> 
> 
> Extravlad believes Zoro clashed evenly with Fujitora.  maybe he's changed from that I'm not sure.


Fuji sneak attacked Zoro the first go around so that encounter is irrelevant although Zoro did just fine.

Second time they clashed neither party was injured so sounds like a even clash to me


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## Ruse (May 23, 2015)

tanman said:


> 151 posts on this topic.
> The Zolo fanboyism is strong in this forum.



When Zoro goes all out in Wano, shit will probably go 20+ pages


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## Lawliet (May 23, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> Apart from Jayjay.  Yes
> 
> 
> Extravlad believes Zoro clashed evenly with Fujitora.  maybe he's changed from that I'm not sure.



They did clash twice, zoro countered when he got ambushed and nothing happened the 2nd time. Sounds like even to me

Was Fujitora serious? Don't think so.


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## Lawliet (May 24, 2015)

Freecss said:


> When Zoro goes all out in Wano, shit will probably go 20+ pages



Zoro goes all out = 1 page


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## trance (May 24, 2015)

Sherlōck said:


> What's next? Zoro has same level of durability as Akainu cause he hasn't shown his limit yet?



Too late. Some already think he can tussle with a monster like Akainu and not get a magma fist through his stomach.


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## ScottofFury (May 24, 2015)

Zoro low diffs, 1 Mihawk level slash GG, he is waiting for the right moment to usurp Luffy of Pirate King status


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## Ruse (May 24, 2015)

Implying the Grandmaster isn't already PK status


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## Sherlōck (May 24, 2015)

Trance said:


> Too late. Some already think he can tussle with a monster like Akainu and not get a magma fist through his stomach.



Sounds totally legit. 

The single fact people think Zoro has same level of endurance & durability without showing anything remotely close to it (hell he didn't even fight someone who is remotely close to Mingo level Post-TS) is cringe worthy.


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## Bernkastel (May 24, 2015)

Sherlōck said:


> Sounds totally legit.
> 
> The single fact people think Zoro has same level of endurance & durability without showing anything remotely close to it (hell he didn't even fight someone who is remotely close to Mingo level Post-TS) is cringe worthy.



B-but Zoro pushed Fuji 0,15969mm 
B-but Asura


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## Sherlōck (May 24, 2015)

And nothing of value was gained. 

But hey its not going to stop people from wanking Zolo like no tomorrow.


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## Dunno (May 24, 2015)

Imagine said:


> .





Bernkastel said:


> He propably means that Luffy can't beat Zoro with G4 if Zoro isn't worn out first thus why he would beat 50% but not 100%. At least that's the only "logic" way to interpret this i think.



Exactly. Do you guys disagree with the sentiment? Do you think Luffy will have as much of a chance to take down Zoro whenever he activates G4? Don't you think it matters if he uses it at the start of the fight or after a while? Do you think Luffy would be in better, worse or the exact same shape after the fight depending on whether he uses G4 at the start or waits with using G4 until they are both worn down? 

I don't believe you think the result would be the exact same, but on the other hand, your replies indicate that you do.


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## Bernkastel (May 24, 2015)

Dunno said:


> Exactly. Do you guys disagree with the sentiment? Do you think Luffy will have as much of a chance to take down Zoro whenever he activates G4? Don't you think it matters if he uses it at the start of the fight or after a while? Do you think Luffy would be in better, worse or the exact same shape after the fight depending on whether he uses G4 at the start or waits with using G4 until they are both worn down?
> 
> I don't believe you think the result would be the exact same, but on the other hand, your replies indicate that you do.



What i believe and know is that Luffy in a weakened state ridiculed and forced a weakened DD to run away a la Pica style even after awakening.

So Zoro with his current feats aint tanking/avoiding/outlasting fresh G4 luffy cause Luffy is simply too strong in that form.

Maybe in the later arcs he manages to close the gap Luffy created with G4 but for now he wont give more than mid diff and that's generous considering the treatment DD is receiving.


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## HisMajestyMihawk (May 24, 2015)

obligatory daily post in Zoro thread 

Zoro > Luffy


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## Dunno (May 24, 2015)

Bernkastel said:


> What i believe and know is that Luffy in a weakened state ridiculed and forced a weakened DD to run away a la Pica style even after awakening.
> 
> So Zoro with his current feats aint tanking/avoiding/outlasting fresh G4 luffy cause Luffy is simply too strong in that form.
> 
> Maybe in the later arcs he manages to close the gap Luffy created with G4 but for now he wont give more than mid diff and that's generous considering the treatment DD is receiving.



You avoided my question. Since you wrote "logic" within quotation marks, I assumed you don't agree with my logic? Was I wrong or do you actually disagree with the sentiment that the timing of Luffy's G4 activation has an effect on the fight? 

The treatment DD is receiving is being ganked by everyone on the island. Were it not for Luffy's companions he would have lost a long time ago. Zoro has no tanking feats post-TS because he hasn't taken damage. His defense feats are solid, mostly made up of his two clashes with Fujitora. We've seen no limit of his strength other than that he's weaker than an admiral, so why should we assume he would be so incredibly much weaker than Luffy when it's never been indicated and he's never been earlier in the manga? What feat has Zoro that puts him that far below Luffy? 

Mid diff is utterly insane and completely wrong, it's almost Gohara level. It's as insane as Zoro taking down Sanji with low diff or Mihawk taking down Shanks with mid diff, two opinions I believe you, me and most other people on this site would laugh at.


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## Bernkastel (May 25, 2015)

Dunno said:


> You avoided my question. Since you wrote "logic" within quotation marks, I assumed you don't agree with my logic? Was I wrong or do you actually disagree with the sentiment that the timing of Luffy's G4 activation has an effect on the fight?



No i dont think the timing affects cause in pure stats G4 >DD>Zoro. 



> The treatment DD is receiving is being ganked by everyone on the island. Were it not for Luffy's companions he would have lost a long time ago. Zoro has no tanking feats post-TS because he hasn't taken damage.



Luffy had the whole DR for his awakening to run away till Luffy was exhausted.Zoro won't have that luxury.And sice Zoro is weaker than DD he'll get smacked even harder.



> His defense feats are solid, mostly made up of his two clashes with Fujitora. We've seen no limit of his strength other than that he's weaker than an admiral, so why should we assume he would be so incredibly much weaker than Luffy when it's never been indicated and he's never been earlier in the manga? What feat has Zoro that puts him that far below Luffy?



Exactly my pojnt...he has no feats to put him on par with G4..not even close..not even DD was able to do anything against his attacks so you can bet that Zoro aint doing any better.And don't start me with the "DD is on his deathbed etc" cause it's bs.

His best feat is one-shotting Pica.He literally has no other solid feats against any notable opponent so i'm not gonna give imaginary stats to him untill he proves he is even close to DD let alone G4. 



> Mid diff is utterly insane and completely wrong, it's almost Gohara level. It's as insane as Zoro taking down Sanji with low diff or *Mihawk taking down Shanks with mid diff,* two opinions I believe you, me and most other people on this site would laugh at.



Assuming Mihawk can even beat Shanks..nice baito 

Anyway no it isn't insane. It's simple really G4>DD>Zoro so G4>>Zoro.


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## KILLERRR (May 25, 2015)

Admirals and yonkous with no feats instantly win fights due to the fact that they should be around the same level as the others that we have seen so far. 

Zoro has always been around the same level as Luffy most especially in endurance and durability. It should not be a negative thing that he hasn't been hurt yet, in fact it could be considered a defensive feat. It's just logical to think that with all those training and learning armament haki his endurance and durability improved a lot too.

G4 has time limit, I can't imagine Luffy beating Zoro in that amount of time. I view G4 as a finishing move, Luffy needs to wear down Zoro in a long hard fight before he takes him down with G4. 

I don't think it's logical that Luffy suddenly made Zoro become someone who can give him a High-Extreme Diff. fight to someone who will get Low Diffed. It all happened despite the fact that Zoro has never been tested post TS.


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