# Gengetsu Vs Muu



## GilgameshXFate (Jul 23, 2015)

Location: Sannin Battlefield
Distance: 50 Meters
Knowledge: Manga (Full)
Mindset: Ic
Restrictions: None


Alright, well since this is pretty much the natural conclusion of the other Muu/Gengetsu thread, Its time to throw away the BS, In a completely fair and neutral location and Knowledge parameters.

Is it true that Muu and Gengetsu are equals?

Or was Kishi just talking shit?


----------



## Bonly (Jul 23, 2015)

Apparently the fourth DB says they fought quite a bit and we know that in the end they finally killed each other so I'd say that it could go either way


----------



## Kai (Jul 23, 2015)

You'll have to pit them against a series of varying opponents and fighting styles like the other thread to prove a point.

Mu and Gengetsu draw if they fight to the death as stated, as far as we're concerned.


----------



## Turrin (Jul 23, 2015)

Did you really feel the need to drag the quality of the NBD down even further OP, by encouraging people to argue that the author is wrong about his own manga, on the basis of their subjective interpretation of feats?

--------

As far as feats go, they both have their strengths and weakness, and I consider their showings relatively equal or at least that Kishi strived the best he could to make their showings equal in the time he had. That or if anything I'd be siding a bit with Gengetsu as the Clam Mirage is a bit more useful than Mu's Invis in various situations. However ultimately my subjective interpretation of feats or anyone else is irrelevant. If Kishimoto says Tenten can take on Kaguya, she can. Because Kishimoto is the fucking author 

So if Kishimoto says he can do it, he can fucking do it, /thread [or at least it should be]

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## wooly Eullerex (Jul 23, 2015)

they are equal in literary stature & overall ninjutsu.

they have unequal strengths & weaknesses in combat 

 Muu would win more times than not & pretty much everytime w/ full knowledge in the NBD vacuum, where we may take them out of that literature; in cancerous fashion - but its still fun to do~


----------



## Matty (Jul 23, 2015)

Common sense tells you most likely Muu takes it more times than not. But since it has been stated that Gengetsu and Muu are equals they most likely kill each other. I don't think Kishi would lie about this, he made them that way for a reason.


----------



## Turrin (Jul 23, 2015)

matty1991 said:


> Common sense tells you most likely Muu takes it more times than not.


Really because looking at their abilities, I feel like they'd be playing hide and seek every match, as Gengetsu can't find Mu due to Invis and Mu can't find Gengetsu due to Clam Mirage. In-fact I think their final battle probably was some extremely long valley of the end type fight, where both fought until they were too exhausted to use these Jutsu anymore, and slugged each other to death. Which would also explain why the Data-book talks about that final battle as if it was a valley of the end style fight that was so amazing that everyone still talks about it today


----------



## Matty (Jul 23, 2015)

Turrin said:


> Really because looking at their abilities, I feel like they'd be playing hide and seek every match, as Gengetsu can't find Mu due to Invis and Mu can't find Gengetsu due to Clam Mirage. In-fact I think their final battle probably was some extremely long valley of the end type fight, where both fought until they were too exhausted to use these Jutsu anymore, and slugged each other to death. Which would also explain why the Data-book talks about that final battle as if it was a valley of the end style fight that was so amazing that everyone still talks about it today




I agree it's always Hide and Seek. I just mean with Jinton's OHKO ability and his invisibility commons sense would tell you more times than not he jinton's Gengetsu. BUT since it is a fact they have drawn so many times I would have to say they kill each other.


----------



## Sadgoob (Jul 23, 2015)

They killed one another in canon, but that doesn't mean equality.

Mu is the better, more revered ninja as far as I'm concerned.

Gengetsu was just a nice ability match-up for him.

Mu = upper Mid Kage, or lower High Kage.

Gengetsu = mid Mid Kage, or upper Mid Kage.


----------



## Matty (Jul 23, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> They killed one another in canon, but that doesn't mean equality.
> 
> Mu is the better, more revered ninja as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> ...



I still can't see Gengetsu as upper mid kage. The guy is middle of the pack Mid kage at best. Deidara would strike me as stronger than him off the top of my head, And I would put Deidara at mid-mid kage maybe a bit lower


----------



## Dr. Leonard Church (Jul 23, 2015)

Turrin said:


> Really because looking at their abilities, I feel like they'd be playing hide and seek every match, as Gengetsu can't find Mu due to Invis and Mu can't find Gengetsu due to Clam Mirage. In-fact I think their final battle probably was some extremely long valley of the end type fight, where both fought until they were too exhausted to use these Jutsu anymore, and slugged each other to death. Which would also explain why the Data-book talks about that final battle *as if it was a valley of the end style fight that was so amazing that everyone still talks about it today*


If only the manga people _actually talked about it_.

But I agree, the nature of their jutsu makes them invisible to each other, which would be absolutely hilarious to an observer if they'd had sensory abilities capable of seeing both of them. And survived the actual fight.


----------



## Amol (Jul 23, 2015)

If anything Muu is bad match up for Trollkage .
He can fly and be invisible.
That practically negates most of the arsenal of Trollkage.
Muu will see Trollkage summoning a clam then he will fire a Jinton towards it only to miss it . Now Muu will understand that there is something wrong most probable guess being Genjutsu .
So yeah he Jintons * statistically * rest of the battlefield(Onoki was supposedly capable of vaporizing Turtle Island).
Trollkage does not have answer to invisibility + Jinton combo.
He loses.
So yeah this is not the first time Kishi talked shit .


----------



## Sadgoob (Jul 23, 2015)

matty1991 said:


> I still can't see Gengetsu as upper mid kage. The guy is middle of the pack Mid kage at best. Deidara would strike me as stronger than him off the top of my head, And I would put Deidara at mid-mid kage maybe a bit lower



I have a higher opinion of Deidara/Kisame than most.

(Specifically, the power of his c4 clone feints and exploding bunshin.)

So I agree that Deidara beats him.

But Deidara to me, ability-wise, is at the tippy-top of Mid Kage.


----------



## Matty (Jul 24, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> I have a higher opinion of Deidara/Kisame than most.
> 
> (Specifically, the power of his c4 clone feints and exploding bunshin.)
> 
> ...



That's true. He is a tough guy to analyze because his strength is so ridiculous. C4 can literally solo 95% of the verse. So even though I place him Mid-mid I don't freak out when people rate him higher because it's not inconceivable. I have a higher opinion of Sasori than most (Somewhat because he is my favorite along with Itachi and I admit bias but it's also partially due to others extreme underrating of him) so I understand where you come from. Then again I just think I have a higher opinion of the Akatsuki in general than a lot of people.

Prime Hidan is nearly unbeatable


----------



## Turrin (Jul 24, 2015)

matty1991 said:


> I agree it's always Hide and Seek. I just mean with Jinton's OHKO ability and his invisibility commons sense would tell you more times than not he jinton's Gengetsu. BUT since it is a fact they have drawn so many times I would have to say they kill each other.


If it's hide and seek wouldn't common sense tell us that most battles will end with them not landing a blow on each other, I.E. a stalemate. 



matty1991 said:


> I still can't see Gengetsu as upper mid kage. The guy is middle of the pack Mid kage at best


Gengetsu was able to fight Mu on many occasions and ultimately killed Mu [albeit Mu also killed him]. Mu was strong enough where Tsunade and HQ believed Onoki was the only one of them that could stand against him, and ultimately Onoki was defeated by Mu [albeit Onoki didn't have stone-will at the time, but still]. That means Gengetsu accomplished, on multiple occasions no less a feat that none of the Gokage were capable off. Now you could argue Gengetsu only accomplished this due to some type advantage over Mu, but the manga never highlighted one and their feats don't suggest one; plus Gengetsu stating he is >= Mu and Gaara seemingly agreeing as well as Mu's DB entry indicating he wished for Gengetsu to approve of him as a worthy rival, all seemingly support the idea that Gengetsu >= Mu, rather than it being a match up issue. I also kind of doubt people would still be talking about a battle that was simply decided by match up, but that's just me. 



> . Deidara would strike me as stronger than him off the top of my head, And I would put Deidara at mid-mid kage maybe a bit lower


Gengetsu's accomplishments are much better than Deidara's. A much stronger Gaara than the one Deidara faced, needed help to defeat Gengetsu. Gengetsu fighting on par with Mu who was stronger than all the Gokage individually, also places him well above Deidara. 

That's not to say I know where Gengetsu falls Kage wise, but he's certainly portrayed as  >= Mu, and stronger than, Tsunade, Ei, Gaara [War-Arc], Gaara [SPII], Sandaime-Raikage, Rasa, Mei, Onoki [Pre-Stone Will]. And I very much doubt he isn't at least >= Old-Hiruzen and Sandaime-Kazekage. Granted Hashirama, Naruto, Minato, and Tobirama, have all been portrayed above him, and we have no way to evaluate the other what 14 [?] Kages or Kage incarnations, but likely being >= to 11 Kages right off the bat, puts him in a very good position.

Like I said before to you Gengetsu, Mu, Itachi, and Sasori should all be considered around a similar "level" on the Kage scale, I.E. they are > or at least comparable to most Kages we know about outside the big 4-Hokages. Albeit Itachi is the best of the bunch.


----------



## DaVizWiz (Jul 24, 2015)

Repeated Jinton at start battle equates to death for Gengetsu from this distance, no time to stop & summon the clam- not that'd it matter- it would be obliterated by Jinton the moment it was summoned prior the Genjutsu being implemented.

Onoki obliterated Flower Tree World with Jinton nigh-instantly, Mu traded Jinton with him equally- that means Gengetsu is dust in the wind.

Now, if Gengetsu started with the clam out and the genjutsu implemented, then he'd at least give Mu a high-diff battle, though he'd still end up erased. 

But see, that's a pretty steep advantage- like Kabuto starting in SM or Danzo starting with his brace unsealed. 

We can't have that.


----------



## Matty (Jul 24, 2015)

@Turrin common sense would suggest that if the playing field is equal (Both invisible) Jinton would be better than anything Gengetsu has. Hence why I am saying common sense would tell you, Mu can OHKO anyone and has the upper hand. In this hypothetical battle I would imagine Mu taking it more times than not. Even though that more times than not might be 52/100. But like I stated before it is canon that they killed each other, so maybe Mu lacks other areas of fighting and Jinton is just a hax Jutsu.

To me they are honestly just Kage level. Jinton makes Mu's value higher but he doesn't strike me as anything more than a side character added for a little bit of back story. Same with Gengetsu. I feel like the Akatsuki are equally as strong barring just Hidan and Konan (who we never really know how strong she is) And I find it really hard to place people that we saw so little from. BUT on the other hand I didn't see one Edo perform at a high level besides Itachi and Nagato so maybe in real life they were beasts and in Edo form just got plot gimped like every other edo essentially


----------



## Icegaze (Jul 24, 2015)

gengetsu cant find Muu 
Muu cant find gengetsu either

when both go for jouki boy vs jinton 

same clash occurs. Muu would be hard pressed to charge up jinton with jouki boy trying to kill him

so yes they kill each other

deidara beats gengetsu because he is a good type match. 

doton>suiton for one


----------



## Bonly (Jul 24, 2015)

matty1991 said:


> @Turrin common sense would suggest that if the playing field is equal (Both invisible) Jinton would be better than anything Gengetsu has. Hence why I am saying common sense would tell you, Mu can OHKO anyone and has the upper hand



I think common sense would suggest you look at both of their skill sets as a whole rather then just seeing one thing being individually better. When it comes to everything both have and we're talking about a 1V1 between the two if both are already "invisible", while Jinton may be better then any one thing, the entire moveset of the French Dude would be better imo. 

Jinton seemed to take quite a bit of chakra and didn't seem to be spamable while also seemingly making Muu turn visible to attack with Jinton meaning he'd be spotted by the French Dude. Now he has to fire off Jinton at a random location in hopes of catching the clam or the French Dude while using something that doesn't seem spamable since sensing isn't gonna find the French Dude. On the otherhand The French Dude can say "invisible" and still attack from afar by using his water bullets and Joki boy and Muu wouldn't even know where they were coming from or when it is coming because the clam can make mirages of what Muu will see on the battle field.

I think common sense would favor both as equal or slightly in the French Dude's favor because he can do more when "invisible" as opposed to Muu who has to become visible to use Jinton


----------



## Icegaze (Jul 24, 2015)

French dude cant use jouki boy and clam mist

unless the mist creates mirages of jouki boy it doesnt seem like the 2 go together

if it did though 

then yes i would consider him stronger than MUU


----------



## Bonly (Jul 24, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> French dude cant use jouki boy and clam mist
> 
> unless the mist creates mirages of jouki boy it doesnt seem like the 2 go together
> 
> ...



Can you show me where it's stated that he can't use both at the same time by any chance?


----------



## Icegaze (Jul 24, 2015)

Bonly said:


> Can you show me where it's stated that he can't use both at the same time by any chance?



no but i am sure as hell you cant show me him using both at the same time

and how would it work really

jouki boy takes alot out of him 

already dont think he can combine that and other jutsu


its like suggesting Muu can fire jinton will being invisible


----------



## Bonly (Jul 24, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> no



Well ok then


----------



## Icegaze (Jul 24, 2015)

Bonly said:


> Well ok then



lol are you 5?
show me where he uses both at the same time 

while you are at it

acting all retarded and what not


----------



## Turrin (Jul 24, 2015)

matty1991 said:


> @Turrin common sense would suggest that if the playing field is equal (Both invisible) Jinton would be better than anything Gengetsu has. Hence why I am saying common sense would tell you, Mu can OHKO anyone and has the upper hand.


Bonely explains this better than I seem to be doing, so i'll quote him:



Bonly said:


> Jinton seemed to take quite a bit of chakra and didn't seem to be spamable while also seemingly making Muu turn visible to attack with Jinton meaning he'd be spotted by the French Dude. Now he has to fire off Jinton at a random location in hopes of catching the clam or the French Dude while using something that doesn't seem spamable since sensing isn't gonna find the French Dude. On the otherhand The French Dude can say "invisible" and still attack from afar by using his water bullets and Joki boy and Muu wouldn't even know where they were coming from or when it is coming because the clam can make mirages of what Muu will see on the battle field.
> 
> I think common sense would favor both as equal or slightly in the French Dude's favor because he can do more when "invisible" as opposed to Muu who has to become visible to use Jinton






> To me they are honestly just Kage level. Jinton makes Mu's value higher but he doesn't strike me as anything more than a side character added for a little bit of back story. Same with Gengetsu. I feel like the Akatsuki are equally as strong barring just Hidan and Konan (who we never really know how strong she is) And I find it really hard to place people that we saw so little from. BUT on the other hand I didn't see one Edo perform at a high level besides Itachi and Nagato so maybe in real life they were beasts and essentially


I'm not sure how you reconcile that belief with the fact that both Mu and Gengetsu were indicated to be stronger than all the Gokage Invidiually. The strongest of the Edo-Kages. And Both would have indeed defeated a Gokage, if said Gokage did not receive help. Again I don't know what label is correct as far as High/Mid/Low Kage goes, but to call them just another Kage seems unfair given their accomplishments. Likewise it seems very unfair to me to compare them to the average Akatsuki, when their hype and accomplishments are sooo much better.


----------



## Matty (Jul 24, 2015)

I am taking Gengetsu's entire arsenal into account. I'm just saying it seems to be common sense that if both are equal the guy with a tech that can obliterate someone with one hit is most likely going to take that. Now if he actually does it is a different story.


----------



## Icegaze (Jul 24, 2015)

@matty
but maybe they are only equal because Muu has jinton 

jouki boy might not 1 shot people with high level defensive techniques

but if you dont know to look for gengetsu that clone will murder the shit out of you. 

its basically like an ET. it cant be killed or poof'd away. doesnt get tired

protects the caster


----------



## Turrin (Jul 24, 2015)

matty1991 said:


> I am taking Gengetsu's entire arsenal into account. I'm just saying it seems to be common sense that if both are equal the guy with a tech that can obliterate someone with one hit is most likely going to take that. Now if he actually does it is a different story.


Gengetsu would obliterate Mu with one hit of Jouki Boi too though. So I fail to see the difference for the purpose of their match.


----------



## Ryuzaki (Jul 24, 2015)

They were furnished upon to be equals but Mu was stronger and had a better arsenal, even though he did end up dying, it didn't mean he lost the match, since Gengetsu died first. Muu has the advantage, though Gengetsu could delay the inevitable as much as he wants to.


----------



## Matty (Jul 24, 2015)

I understand what you guys are saying. You're definitely right. All I am saying is that if the match is considered equal while both are invisible I would imagine the guy with the one hit ko technique to have the upper hand. I'm not saying he is more powerful or he is not I'm just saying common sense would tell me to put my money on the guy who can get lucky and jinton the shit out of someone


----------



## Ryuzaki (Jul 24, 2015)

Yeah if we're taking odds, Muu is stronger by hype and feats.


----------



## Bonly (Jul 24, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> lol are you 5?



Oh the irony 



> show me where he uses both at the same time



Show me Tsunade walking on water with chakra. Oh wait you can't? Welp guess that means she can't herpy derpy yay yay.  



> while you are at it
> 
> acting all retarded and what not



Boy it's a good thing I got this plate of French fries before I read this post because I sure as hell needed all your salt to add some great flavor.



matty1991 said:


> I am taking Gengetsu's entire arsenal into account. I'm just saying it seems to be common sense that if both are equal the guy with a tech that can obliterate someone with one hit is most likely going to take that. Now if he actually does it is a different story.



Common sense would say Water pistol to the head equal's a one hit knock out. Common sense would say a god damn kunai could be a one hit knock out. Thus common sense would say that saying Muu would be more likely to win due to a OHKO isn't all that valid when the French Dude also has OHKO moves(which would really play a big factor in a1V1 if both started "invisible") as well thus common sense would say to look at their entire arsenal when saying would is likely to win while rather then just say "hey this guy has OHKO, GG folks, GG".


----------



## Matty (Jul 24, 2015)

Bonly said:


> Oh the irony
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Haha I am not saying it's GG!!!!! I am just saying I would put my money on Mu. Jinton>Water pistol. From what I saw the water pistol is a bullet while Jinto n covers a wider area, thus if I had to take one jutsu to pick to kill someone in one shot odds are better with Jinton.


----------



## Bonly (Jul 24, 2015)

matty1991 said:


> Haha I am not saying it's GG!!!!!



I know that, I meant "GG" as in you thinking which is the OHKO that tip the scales.



> I am just saying I would put my money on Mu. Jinton>Water pistol. From what I saw the water pistol is a bullet while Jinto n covers a wider area, thus if I had to take one jutsu to pick to kill someone in one shot odds are better with Jinton.



That's fine if you think such, I'm just saying that you mentioning "common sense" doesn't actually mean it's common sense which would be right. 

Who do you think has easier chance to land a hit on the other. Muu who is visible and shooting off Jinton when he doesn't know where the French Dude is or the French Dude landing a killing shot on Muu who is visible while Muu doesn't know where the French Dude is at? 

To me common sense would side with the guy who is "invisible", can see his enemy, and has a(well two) OHKO as oppose to the guy who can't find his enemy, is out in the open and has a OHKO move.


----------



## Matty (Jul 24, 2015)

Bonly said:


> I know that, I meant "GG" as in you thinking which is the OHKO that tip the scales.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Definitely see your point. It is too tough to call honestly. I think it is one of those "On Paper" Matches that Muu might look better. It's clear they are equal. Do you agree with turrin that Gengetsu is more powerful?


----------



## Icegaze (Jul 24, 2015)

Bonly said:


> Oh the irony
> 
> 
> 
> ...



good thing muu can use jinton while invisible 


feel free to prove that wrong


----------



## Bonly (Jul 24, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> good thing muu can use jinton while invisible
> 
> 
> feel free to prove that wrong



I don't have to prove anything, burden of proof is on you 



matty1991 said:


> Definitely see your point. It is too tough to call honestly. I think it is one of those "On Paper" Matches that Muu might look better. It's clear they are equal. Do you agree with turrin that Gengetsu is more powerful?



Nah I think both are equal more or less


----------



## Icegaze (Jul 24, 2015)

lol you are comical 

you claim something that never happened in the manga yet cant prove it. and am to prove it cant happen 



gengetsu cant use jouki boy and clam genjutsu at the same time

if u think he can u have to prove it. not me proving he cant since he didn't show it. 

 try use your brain


----------



## Bonly (Jul 24, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> A bunch of shit nobody cares about with alot of butthurtness



Ok so basically you can't show me where it's stated that he can't use both at the same time and nothing hints that he can't do both at the same.

You then try to use Muu using Jinton while invisible even though it's been shown multiple times that it can't be done as a similar example which fails right off the bat.

And you're only claim to say that he can't use both at the same time is that he never showed it when he didn't try to use it. So if I put Chunin exam Naruto vs Tsunade fighting here on the water, would you say Tsunade loses because she hasn't shown to walk on water via chakra?


----------



## DaVizWiz (Jul 24, 2015)

Bonly's trolling pretty hard, Joki Boy & Battlefield Genjutsu simultaneously, when he didn't showcase the ability to do it while a tireless Edo?

No one has yet to disprove Mu's Jinton killing Gengetsu at start battle.

As usual, people bring the clam & Joki Boy into it- when the guy can't even avoid Jinton at start battle. The clam would be dusted the moment it was summoned and Joki Boy is no different.

Nothing in that dude has can avoid Jinton.


----------



## Matty (Jul 24, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> Bonly's trolling pretty hard, Joki Boy & Battlefield Genjutsu simultaneously, when he didn't showcase the ability to do it while a tireless Edo?
> 
> No one has yet to disprove Mu's Jinton killing Gengetsu at start battle.
> 
> ...



There had to be something, though, since they fought tons of times before. I'm sure there were plenty of times Muu could've Jinton'd him but it never happened.


----------



## DaVizWiz (Jul 24, 2015)

None of which are on panel, so it matters not.

Two Kage fighting aren't Two Kage fighting. Mu was likely accompanied by Onoki at all points and Anbu were probably with both of them at all times. I have never seen a Kage on the battlefield alone fighting another Kage on the battlefield alone. 

So unless you can prove it was 1 on 1 when they killed each other, and the battled started with equal stipulations (clam not summoned initially, both know where each other were, they were alone, etc) there really isn't an argument to be made about it in this thread.


----------



## Matty (Jul 24, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> I have never seen a Kage on the battlefield alone fighting another Kage on the battlefield alone.




Maybe not Kage but as for rivals: Sasuke/Naruto, Hashirama/Madara they both fought at VoTE alone and unprotected. I highly doubt two ultra competitive kage such as Muu and Gengetsu would want any interference in proving their superiority.


----------



## Turrin (Jul 24, 2015)

matty1991 said:


> I understand what you guys are saying. You're definitely right. All I am saying is that if the match is considered equal while both are invisible I would imagine the guy with the one hit ko technique to have the upper hand. I'm not saying he is more powerful or he is not I'm just saying common sense would tell me to put my money on the guy who can get lucky and jinton the shit out of someone


But again Jouki Boi is a one hit KO to Mu, just as much as Jinton is a one hit KO to Gengetsu

So I still don't see the relevance of Jinton being a 1 hit KO, in fight between Gengetsu and Mu. In a fight with someone else that Jouki Boi can't 1 hit KO, but Jinton can, than that's a different story.



DaVizWiz said:


> Bonly's trolling pretty hard, Joki Boy & Battlefield Genjutsu simultaneously, when he didn't showcase the ability to do it while a tireless Edo?
> .


Since when has a summoner ever been incapable of using their Jutsu, because their summon is using theirs. And it certainly did not stop Gengetsu from using two other Jutsu, Suika no Jutsu and Hozuki Water Gun. So what is your claim that he can't use both even based on. 

And to accuse Bonley of trolling when he is posting rational arguments to explain Gengetsu and Mu's rivalry, versus you whose arguing the author is wrong about his own manga due to your subjective interpretation of feats, is absolutely ridiculous on your part.


----------



## Icegaze (Jul 25, 2015)

but jouki boy takes a lot out of gengetsu doesn't make much sense to think he can combine other Jutsu with kt 

Also we havent seen him use both at the same time 

One might as well assume muu can fire Jinton while invisible


----------



## Turrin (Jul 25, 2015)

Jouki Boi takes a-lot out of *him*, however the Mirage is cast by the *Clam*. 

This is like saying a Jutsu takes a-lot out *Jiraiya*, some how prevents _*Gammabunta*_ from using a Jutsu.

Additionally he did use Suika no Jutsu at the same time as Jouki Boi

On the other hand Mu may be able to technically cast Jinton while invisible, however  it would just be pointless. Because from Steel's translation of DBIV [and what I get from a surface reading], it seems Mu's Jutsu works by him wearing water particles on his body, that bend light. That means the effect only extends so far as his body. So if he used Jinton while using Invis it would be pointless, because it would give away his position regardless. For example:




Which also explains why Mu would be dicking around with physical punches when using Invis against Onoki. And there is no summon to shoulder half the duties for Mu


----------



## Icegaze (Jul 25, 2015)

But mirages of gengetsu doesn't help conceal jouki boy 
So what's the point 
So weakened gengetsu can hide better ?

Maybe your right


----------



## Bonly (Jul 25, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> but jouki boy takes a lot out of gengetsu doesn't make much sense to think he can combine other Jutsu with kt



And? Just because his body is weak doesn't mean he loses the ability to use more then one jutsu(which funny enough he used another jutsu in canon) and The Clam spits out the mist for the genjutsu and what not, so it's not like he has much to do physically anyway.



> Also we havent seen him use both at the same time



We haven't seen Tsunade put chakra on her feet to walk on water. Guess she drowns, oh wait you never answered my question about Tsunade vs Chunin exam arc Naruto.



> One might as well assume muu can fire Jinton while invisible



If he wasn't shown to not do it multiple times then you'd have a point.


----------



## Turrin (Jul 26, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> But mirages of gengetsu doesn't help conceal jouki boy
> So what's the point
> So weakened gengetsu can hide better ?
> 
> Maybe your right


The Mirage can obviously make things others than the clam invisible and create illusions of them, considering the Mirage created illusions of Gengetsu and made Gengentsu invisible. So I see no reason why it couldn't make illusions off Jouki Boi and make Jouki Boi invisible.


----------



## Icegaze (Jul 26, 2015)

Well in that case gengetsu is clearly high Kage level regardless of what ranking you use 

Not bad


----------



## Vedant (Oct 18, 2017)

Any one can win even udon can kill madara if kishimoto wants


----------



## Pumpkin Potion (Oct 18, 2017)

Ryuzaki said:


> They were furnished upon to be equals but Mu was stronger and had a better arsenal, even though he did end up dying, it didn't mean he lost the match, since Gengetsu died first. Muu has the advantage, though Gengetsu could delay the inevitable as much as he wants to.



Beat me to it. Gengetsu is not the head on fighter here

That being said the two of them fight for so long they both end up bloody and with no chakra and Muu Splits when he dies but that makes him weaker and they both end up dead.



Matty said:


> I understand what you guys are saying. You're definitely right. All I am saying is that if the match is considered equal while both are invisible I would imagine the guy with the one hit ko technique to have the upper hand. I'm not saying he is more powerful or he is not I'm just saying common sense would tell me to put my money on the guy who can get lucky and jinton the shit out of someone



He can't land it under the clone attacks. they both run out of chakra and beat them selfs to death.


----------



## genii96 (Oct 18, 2017)

Joki boy was the thing that muu couldn't deal with
So probably stalemate, we didn't really see ALL they could do either


----------



## Ogihci Shirosaki (Oct 21, 2017)

I know this is a necroed thread, but I'm surprised by the older responses. IIRC, the majority see Muu as superior now, even many who were previously arguing for Gengetsu here. It's always fascinating how some opinions change without any new information.


----------



## Vedant (Oct 22, 2017)

But even then i m with gengetsu


----------



## JuicyG (Jul 31, 2018)

GilgameshXFate said:


> Location: Sannin Battlefield
> Distance: 50 Meters
> Knowledge: Manga (Full)
> Mindset: Ic
> ...


Going with Muu more times than not


----------



## Architect (Aug 1, 2018)

Muu is stronger, but they counter each other. So, both die.


----------



## The hidden mist god (Mar 25, 2019)

How do we know the battle was an actual straightup 1v1


----------



## The hidden mist god (Mar 25, 2019)

Mu wouldn't be able to find gengetsu with the giant clam mirage and while he figures it out gengetsu will snipe muu with his water bullet jutsu


----------

