# Strongest Servant (Nasuverse) Curent Naruto could beat



## Gundam Meister (Jan 29, 2012)

So which is the strongest Servant he could beat


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## willyvereb (Jan 29, 2012)

Depdns on the starting distance.
Also whether Naruto has Kurama's chakra aura on or not.
If he does then there are only a few Servants who can stop him.

Saber, Gilgamesh and likely FSN!Berserker from the canon continuity.


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## Garv (Jan 29, 2012)

What about Lancer? Gae Bolg will kill Naruto?


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## willyvereb (Jan 29, 2012)

It will, given Lancer has a chance to get within range.
On the other hand both Archer and Gilgamesh can kill Naruto with ease if they summon Gae Bolg right next to him.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 29, 2012)

*Saber* - Excaliblast destroys atoms in multi-block+ GG
*Gil* - Ea GG or GoB GG .. although he can take the regular Villain Ball CIS Gil, but then again who can't =/
*Lancer* - how close did he need to be for the The heart GG ?
*Herc* - not sure if bijuudama can take all GH lives or not .. probably not, then immune GG .. although would that be immune to ALL chakra ninjutsu or bijuudama only ? FRS has some wind in it too
*Rider* - flying horse - hard to hit .. but she could likely be nuked before that .. although the petrification may end it immediately ? 
*Caster* - flying, but building+ DC is kind of pathetic .. any more hax she has ? Not sure what Ruru Breaker could do here, but she has no business going up close to stab
*Assassin* - nuked .. 3 slashes not stopping a mini-kaiju with regen
*True Assassin* - nuked likely, although don't remember all of the hax like that heart crush thing
*Archer* - don't remember broken phantasm DC or all of the hax tbh .. can he Gae Bolg or Excaliblast ? 


FZ : I didn't read the novel, so only going by S1 anime, not much abilities shown there .. FZ Lancer likely dies though (Carnival Phantasm confirmed that for Lancer and his FZ buddy shares the fate )




this is assuming Naruto starts in FKM mode and some ~ mid-distance


base Naruto gets blitzed, RM naruto likely cannot tank even the ~mid-servants (although perhaps less with the blitzing since I consider him low double digits even w/o the calc since he evaded V2 A who blitzes hypersonics)


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## Xelloss (Jan 29, 2012)

Equalization make naruto not die of petrification right away.

Assassin from extra
Saber from extra (not the copy of Arturia)


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## DestinyDestroyer (Jan 29, 2012)

Only Assassin, True Assassin and Avenger


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## Xelloss (Jan 29, 2012)

Avenger? lol while its true he is super weak given him enough distance and bye bye naruto, he is rather weak vs servant but "humans"...


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## Basilikos (Jan 29, 2012)

Gae Bolg could pierce someone who has mountain level durability?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 29, 2012)

Doesn't it ignore all that ?


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## TehChron (Jan 29, 2012)

Presumably it pierces the heart upon activation, afterwards it just forces the flight path through.

Naruto doesn't have any feats of regenerating from getting his heart run through, right?


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## willyvereb (Jan 29, 2012)

^Even if he does, Gae Bolg also ignores regeneration.
Furthermore it releases thousands of spikes all over your body.
Seriously, that spear was made solely to fuck you up.


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## Shouko (Jan 29, 2012)

Gae Bolg isn't doing shit. Naruto is surrounded by Kurama aura/Kyuubi himself it's like the second being other then Naruto - Lancer first have to strike Bijuu shroud(except it doesn't have a heart), so if it's Naruto surrounded by Kurama shroud then Lancer has no way to win. But if he hasn't got shroud then he likely wins.

Anyway, isn't Naruto far faster for any of them?


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## TehChron (Jan 29, 2012)

Hrm.

When struck normally, the Gae Bolg releases those barb things, right? So if Lancer just got in one of those GB stabs on the Kyuubi Shroud, wouldn't that mean those thousands of barbs would permeate the entire Kurama body, thus also skewering Naruto directly? 

And someone said that negates regeneration, right? Well then, wouldn't that still be enough to fuck up FKM Naruto?


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## Shouko (Jan 29, 2012)

> When struck normally, t*he Gae Bolg releases those barb things*, right?


Really? Can you quote this, I don't remember him doing something like that.


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## Amae (Jan 29, 2012)

Shouko said:


> Gae Bolg isn't doing shit.


Unless Naruto can survive without his heart, yeah. But he can't.


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## TehChron (Jan 29, 2012)

Taken from the Wiki, sorry:





> G?e Bolg: Barbed Spear that Pierces with Death (刺し穿つ死棘の槍(ゲイ・ボルグ), also translated as Spear of Impaling Barbed Death?) is an attack focused on a single target, created by Lancer to suit his own style, that strikes a fatal blow that always pierces the opponent's heart and ruins their body from within with its thousand iron thorns
> 
> ...(In universe jargon)
> 
> ...



Mind you, the defense is referring to the casuality-altering toss. Not the "uncurable damage" after effect. So the question becomes whether or not the Kurama Body is considered a shield or a body in it's own right. Considering how the other Jinchuuriki taking on Full Biju forms has been considered to be a case of entire bodies (Shukaku awakened mode, for example and arguably Full Hachibi mode) then that would mean it wouldn't be considered a defense. Right?


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## willyvereb (Jan 29, 2012)

Gae Bolg has the passive ability to prevent regeneration. Any wound caused by Gae Bolg cannot be healed by natural or even supernatural ways.
Although Avalon can overwhelm this effect and heal the body in about a few days or so. Compared to the fact that it normally heals the body in seconds.

Also when Lancer activates Gae Bolg it becomes a spear that reverses cause and effect. In short striking the heart becomes the cause and the effect is moving the spear. So the effect of the enemy's heart being pierced is already certain once Lancer is in melee range. Parrying or dodging the attack does nothing since the results are pretty much written down in destiny. Only people with supernatural amounts of luck has a chance to survive it since they have the ability to slightly off-set that destiny.

Also activated Gae Bolg releases thousands of thorns inside the target once the spear impaled the heart, further ensuring that the opponent does really-really die. How kind...


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## Shouko (Jan 29, 2012)

> Unless Naruto can survive without his heart, yeah. But he can't.


Unless Gae Bolg will reach his heart. But it can't.

LOL, info from wiki? I'm not buying this. They can write whatever they want.


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## willyvereb (Jan 29, 2012)

Except that you are really don't know what are you talking about.
TM Wiki is written by Nasuverse fanatics and maintained by Nasuverse fanatics.
They are careful to 

Besides I just explained the way Gae Bolg works to you with my own words. Based on the original VN and the additional data supplied from the Fate/Complete Material series.


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## Xelloss (Jan 29, 2012)

I still find iffy if pass full body shields, the spear must find a path  but anyways I am not entering on that topic.


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## willyvereb (Jan 29, 2012)

The thrown version of Gae Bolg ican pass any walls and obstructions to strike its intended target. I can't see how the melee version is inferior.
Unless you have conceptual barriers to block the attack (Rho Aias is a confirmed conceptual item for example) you likely cannot stop Gae Bolg.


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## TehChron (Jan 29, 2012)

Shouko said:


> Unless Gae Bolg will reach his heart. But it can't.
> 
> LOL, info from wiki? I'm not buying this. They can write whatever they want.





If you want to drag it out so badly, then prove that the FKM body is of equal or higher defensive power than a full-blown Rho Aias in order for Naruto to survive it.

=/


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## willyvereb (Jan 29, 2012)

Well, Kurama's chakra body lacks durability feats for now but the Kyuubi certainly has better physical durability compared to Rho Aias

Rho Aias was said to be the equivalent of 7 reinforced castle walls. Although it did tank at least 1/4 of Excalibur's full output (townbuster) despite it was the incomplete version summoned by HF Shirou (4 petals instead of the total 7).

The problem is Gae Bolg is hardly a pure physical attack.


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## Xelloss (Jan 29, 2012)

Except we know that Rho arias is a directional barrier, walls and the like are inferior to any NP save probably rule breaker.

I mean a strong shield that cover all body (Like god hand... I know its a bad example as god hand would negate Gae bolg anyways).


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## Shouko (Jan 29, 2012)

The wiki may be Nasuverse fanatics but all I'm asking is to quote this thorn attack, am I asking too much?
And chakra isn't psychical thing. It's also better defense then Rhio Aias.


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## TehChron (Jan 29, 2012)

Shouko said:


> The wiki may be Nasuverse fanatics but all I'm asking is to quote this thorn attack, am I asking too much?
> And chakra isn't psychical thing. It's also better defense then Rhio Aias.



lol

Prove it then. Moreover, I think it's highly unlikely that you're going to find many people that are willing to trawl through all 3 Fate/Stay Night routes just to screencap Gae Bolg's feats, and that of Rho Aias.

But since the burden is on you to prove that the FKM body would be able to nullify Gae Bolg, by all means, feel free to show us some tanking feats.

Generic Chakra is a better defense than something of Rho Aias' caliber? I presume that means you're saying that Neji's Divination Whirl is capable of tanking a City-busting attack?

Don't be ridiculous.


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## Shouko (Jan 29, 2012)

I'm talking about Bijuu shroud -_-


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 29, 2012)

Gay Bulge is pure hax in a phallic red form .. if Lancer uses melee-version Naru-boy is dead .. can he ?

What is distance ? Lancer can use it as fast as he can pour the necessary amount of prana ?


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## willyvereb (Jan 29, 2012)

Well, Lancer usually assumes a certain stance and charges towards the enemy while screaming "Gae Bolg!" in the middle of the attack's execution.

Mind it, none of these are really required. Servants are just such a show-offs in general.


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## TehChron (Jan 29, 2012)

Shouko said:


> I'm talking about Bijuu shroud -_-



Burden of proof remains, you know?

How is the FKM body a superior defense to Rho Aias?


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## Xelloss (Jan 29, 2012)

willyvereb said:


> Well, Lancer usually assumes a certain stance and charges towards the enemy while screaming "Gae Bolg!" in the middle of the attack's execution.
> 
> Mind it, none of these are really required. Servants are just such a show-offs in general.



Yes and no, he still needs to throw it and call the name, the reversal effect don't activate till the name of the lance is called.


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## willyvereb (Jan 29, 2012)

Given that Dark Saber can pretty much use Excaliblast without calling out the sword's name. Same with Gilgamesh.There are few other examples as well.

This implies that the relation between the Noble Phantasm's effect and true name is the same as the magecraft and its incantation. The latter is only a self-suggestion to achieve a higher level of concentration.
Given lancer's skill in magecraft I believe he can also skip calling out the spear's name if required.
Perhaps since Talking is (relatively) Free Action it doesn't really matter.


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## Xelloss (Jan 29, 2012)

willyvereb said:


> Given that Dark Saber can pretty much use Excaliblast without calling out the sword's name. Same with Gilgamesh.There are few other examples as well.
> 
> This implies that the relation between the Noble Phantasm's effect and true name is the same as the magecraft and its incantation. The latter is only a self-suggestion to achieve a higher level of concentration.
> Given lancer's skill in magecraft I believe he can also skip calling out the spear's name if required.
> Perhaps since Talking is (relatively) Free Action it doesn't really matter.



Its actually even on the description of Gae bolg he needs to call the name, I would call Alter mainly something outside normal servants parameters.

Gilgamesh weapons are unnamed for the most part.


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## Matta Clatta (Jan 29, 2012)

TehChron said:


> Burden of proof remains, you know?
> 
> How is the FKM body a superior defense to Rho Aias?



7 castle walls is what the shield of rho aias is said to be like. So why wouldn't the Biju shroud be way above that?
A castle wall is stone and about 2 meters thick so Rho aias would be about 14 meters thick in stone.
Naruto's durability is about mountain level now. No one should be saying his defense can't match up.


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## willyvereb (Jan 29, 2012)

^I don't know if it's selective reading or dyslexia but you clearly have skimmed over something really important:



willyvereb said:


> Well, Kurama's chakra body lacks durability feats for now but the Kyuubi certainly has better physical durability compared to Rho Aias
> 
> Rho Aias was said to be the equivalent of 7 reinforced castle walls. *Although it did tank at least 1/4 of Excalibur's full output (townbuster) despite it was the incomplete version summoned by HF Shirou (4 petals instead of the total 7).*
> 
> The problem is Gae Bolg is hardly a pure physical attack.


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## Xelloss (Jan 29, 2012)

Do I take that as a concesion willy ?

And the shield was summoned by Archer not Shirou fail self... opps I mean Shirou.


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## willyvereb (Jan 29, 2012)

^Actually, you did partially concessed when you didn't supply an explanation on the scene with Saber Alter's Excaliblast.
Although the issue on whether Lancer can use Gae Bolg without announcing its name is still undecided.
It's just that it doesn't matter as far as Lancer's combat capabilities go so I didn't wish to push this any further.

Also notice that I was referring to HF Shirou. You know the poor guy with Archer's arm fixed into his body. He created RHo Aias to fend off portion of Saber Alter's Excalibur thus allow Rider's Pegasus to emerge victorieous in the clash between the two Noble Phantasms. Excalibur is A++ while Belerophon/Pegasus is A+.
Excalibur does 600 damage while Belerophon does 400. Rho Aias blocked out the rest to tilt the balance in Rider's favor.

Actually, I did a little mes-up. That's  1/3 of Excalibur's full output at least, not 1/4. And again that was with an imperfect version of Rho Aias since it only had 4 petals instead of the total 7.


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## Black Sabbath II (Jan 29, 2012)

Naruto takes a gay bulge to the knee.


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## ForeverHero (Jan 30, 2012)

About Rho Aias and Gae Bolg:
Rho Aias is a conceptual weapon that is "the absolute defense against thrown weapons" and even so, Gae Bolg still broke through all the petals (Even Archer said that, because of this, GB was even stronger than the original Gungnir).
So, the shield gets much, much stronger against a thrown weapon and we can't use its feats against other types of attack to compare it to Naruto's Bijuu Shroud.


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## pikachuwei (Jan 31, 2012)

Gae Bolg can definitely kill Naruto

Problem is Lancer will probably get killed before he can activate it

MB aside, Kyuubi form naruto could probably just slash Lancer in half with chakra arms

Heck I know this sounds stupid, but would Shadow Clones be able to outtroll Gae Bolg? iirc Shadow Clones are exact replicas of the caster's body, so they should have hearts as well.


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## TehChron (Jan 31, 2012)

Gae Bolg is a casuality-altering NP, so trolling it wouldn't have any effect, as the event would be "The original Naruto's heart has been pierced".

That's why Fragarch, an absolute counter NP was only able to force a draw from Lancer, rather than a straight up victory. Unless you have a luck save or a ridiculously powerful conceptual defensive weapon like Rho Aias (a concept specifically meant to counter any and all spears) then Gae Bolg is gonna hit, as an absolute fact.


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## pikachuwei (Jan 31, 2012)

I meant if Naruto made Shadow Clones he can effectively counter-troll Gae Bolg as Lancer wouldn't know which Naruto is the real one.

With speed equal on Lancer isn't gonna be able to Gae Bolg them all before eating a Rasengan or FRS or chakra arm to the face.


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## TehChron (Jan 31, 2012)

What you're saying requires that Naruto have prep-time and know about Gae Bolg's abilities beforehand. 

And that Lancer wouldn't be able to tell them apart. Or that Gae Bolg's effect itself would be fooled.

Anyway, the condition here is that "Naruto clears them" implying he survives the fight. It's canon that even if you kill Lancer after he's activated Gae Bolg's effect, you're still going to die (barring previously referred to defensive measures). Hence, Naruto does not clear F/SN Lancer.


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## pikachuwei (Jan 31, 2012)

Naruto could kill Lancer before he activates Gae Bolg if he started in FKM mode

Or Naruto uses Shadow Clones, Lancer uses Gae Bolg on a clone, gets mobbed and dies

Naruto doesn't have to know about Gae Bolg's abilities, Shadow Clone is his most spammed move along with Rasengan Variations (well he doesn't have any other moves besides them does he :3) so it's a pretty big chance that he'd shadow clone off the bat (and it doesn't require much prep time at all)


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## TehChron (Jan 31, 2012)

You're being ridiculous. Read the previous page regarding FKM's ability to block Gae Bolg. And regarding Kage Bunshin spam, that requires that "the greatest lance user in history" not be able to keep an eye on his target in the couple of seconds it takes for him to charge prana and shout "Gae Bolg!".

Also, Kage Bunshin isn't a free action, so even if Naruto starts off in FKM, the time it takes for him to perform Kage Bunshin spam would be spent by Lancer setting up his certain kill move against the giant fox monster with an obvious human core to target with it.

I'll say it again, you are being ridiculous.


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## familyparka (Jan 31, 2012)

Has anyone already said that Servants cannot be damaged except for conceptual attacks/weapons? Anyone?

BTW why isn't the obvious narutard on this thread being negged?

If you know who I'm talking about


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## Hale (Jan 31, 2012)

Gae Bolg Easily pierces naruto's heart if he get's it off as for the shadow clone thing I would say that if lancer activates it after naruto forms clones, he most likely pierces one of the clones through the heart... I don't see why it would automatically find the right naruto


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## familyparka (Jan 31, 2012)

Hale said:


> Gae Bolg Easily pierces naruto's heart if he get's it off as for the shadow clone thing I would say that if lancer activates it after naruto forms clones, he most likely pierces one of the clones through the heart... *I don't see why it would automatically find the right naruto*



Maybe due to the fact that the clones have no real heart?


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## TehChron (Jan 31, 2012)

Hale said:


> Gae Bolg Easily pierces naruto's heart if he get's it off as for the shadow clone thing I would say that if lancer activates it after naruto forms clones, he most likely pierces one of the clones through the heart... I don't see why it would automatically find the right naruto



_Because that's who Lancer was aiming for_.

Gae Bolg isn't a homing weapon. It is a casuality warper which guarantees that "the target's heart is pierced by Gae Bolg" and then warps reality to accommodate that certain fact.

Chaff tactics simply don't work. Please stop assuming that Lancer is either an idiot or doesn't know how to use his own weapon even halfway decently.


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## Xelloss (Jan 31, 2012)

And lancer still needs to call the ne if naruto kill him before this is gg.


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## Amae (Jan 31, 2012)

Xelloss said:


> And lancer still needs to call the ne if naruto kill him before this is gg.


He wouldn't, so ...


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jan 31, 2012)

familyparka said:


> Maybe due to the fact that the clones have no real heart?



Gae Bolg can aim for artificial hearts too. Not that it matters. >.>



> And lancer still needs to call the ne if naruto kill him before this is gg.



Killing him doesn't stop the spear. You know the fight between him and Bazette? Yeah.

That and he would have to be massively faster than him for that to happen. Speed is not equal.

OP didn't specify if Naruto is in his Kyuubi mode, thing. So he's in base. Getting Kage Bunshin off is irrelevant since 

1. Striking Spear of Death kills him on the spot.
2. Thrown GB for spread damage.


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## willyvereb (Jan 31, 2012)

Xelloss said:


> And lancer still needs to call the ne if naruto kill him before this is gg.


Talking is Free Action

Lancer didn't waste any time by calling out Gae Bolg's name. Not to mention that it's a bit dubious if he really needs to call the weapon's name to perform its special attack.

So Lancer would still casually murder Naruto in close combat.
It's a whole other thing that Lancer has no way to survive an onslaught from Naruto with Kurama's chakra cloak. Kurama's Chakra roar would be likely enough to destroy Lancer before he could reach his target.

True, Lancer has very likely the best combat speed amongst the Servants. He jumped back 100 meters in an instant without Archer having a chance to do anything about it. But speed and his melee hax alone won't give Lancer the victory.

On the other hand I believe Lancer has the means to beat Naruto's previous form (Kyuubi Chakra Mode). Even the shadow clones won't help. Lancer is an expert in magic thus thanks to the equivalence rule he can see the difference in the chakra's clone compared to the original. Even if he can't Lancer has beast-like senses so he can literally smell out the original Naruto.


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## Xelloss (Jan 31, 2012)

Its actually on the freaking description that he needs to call the name... and he always does it when trying spear of barbing death, free action trope or not, its needed.

I am not saying Naruto can win, specially due to disengage skill on Lancer and Battle continuation, more than probably even if he manage to give a fatal blow Lancer would finish calling the NP.

@Raidou Kuzunoha: Bazzet let him call the name, the time rewind would happen but at that moment Gae bolg has already determinate the fate and would also rewrite back time, thats diffrent to total prevent it from activation.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 31, 2012)

> Lancer is an expert in magic thus thanks to the equivalence rule he can see the difference in the chakra's clone compared to the original. Even if he can't Lancer has beast-like senses so he can literally smell out the original Naruto.


I'm not sure how that would work and atm I can't really remember if someone in Naruto has ever been able to identify shadow clones from the real thing (w/o playing the guess game) and the verse is full of sensors and trackers (by smell too) and stuff


and afaik there being NO difference between the original and the clone until you start hitting it is the whole point of the clone .. they definitely look the same chakra-wise (even distribution), not sure about smell



anyway, Gae Bolg should work probably even if it's used after the clones are made .. problem is in IC Lancer likes to have his fun in melee before realising he needs Gae Bolg and then it might be too late .. if it's bloodlust though


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## willyvereb (Jan 31, 2012)

Unless the thread maker stated otherwise we're using a standard OBD setting.

Which correlates for the location being RoSaT, starting distance of 20 paces and state of the mind being bloodlusted.
So yeah, Lancer would bring out Gae Bolg right off the bat.
He can also erect a defensive field that can at least tank skycraper level attacks.


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## Xelloss (Jan 31, 2012)

To be fair Koto is a bad master, Lancer stats with a normal decent master should be higher, was under a command seal so probably Lancer extra stats are a bit closer to the "real" full power lancer.

Just checked

Endurance from C to A
Luck from E to D


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jan 31, 2012)

Fluttershy said:


> I'm not sure how that would work and atm I can't really remember if someone in Naruto has ever been able to identify shadow clones from the real thing (w/o playing the guess game) and the verse is full of sensors and trackers (by smell too) and stuff
> 
> 
> *and afaik there being NO difference between the original and the clone until you start hitting it is the whole point of the clone .. they definitely look the same chakra-wise (even distribution), not sure about smell
> ...



There is a difference between the real and fakes. This been the case since Part 1. Recall the fight between Neji & Naruto. He gunned after the real Naruto after he used KB.

Neji explaining

random Arclight amv

Gunned after him

random Arclight amv
random Arclight amv
random Arclight amv


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## Basilikos (Jan 31, 2012)

I asked earlier but nobody replied so I'll reiterate the question: Can Gae Bolg pierce someone with mountain level durability?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 31, 2012)

Raidou Kuzunoha said:


> There is a difference. This been the case since Part 1. Recall the fight between Neji & Naruto. He gunned after the real Naruto after he used KB.


Wasn't that him just guessing that the real would hide behind the clones to protect himself ?

Even if he could distinguish, you'd likely need Byakugan for that shit, because sharingan/rinnegan only sees the chakra and they can't tell the difference because of even chakra distribution


I don't remember that early Naruto well though


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## Xelloss (Jan 31, 2012)

according to word of god yes, then again I find iffy it can pierce full body barriers of good level.

Nasuverse pretty much make all its abilities sound like NLF.


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## Big Bοss (Jan 31, 2012)

I think he is asking for feats, not word of god.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 31, 2012)

> Neji explaining
> 
> random Arclight amv
> 
> ...


Isn't this exactly how I thought it is ?

first scan he even says clones copy the body perfectly and the Byakugan can't tell



and then he says the real one was the one who attacked the least, but that's just a good guess (or was it?), he couldn't confirm


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## Judas (Jan 31, 2012)

Raidou Kuzunoha said:


> Neji explaining
> 
> random Arclight amv
> 
> ...



That was a clone too...

random Arclight amv
random Arclight amv


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jan 31, 2012)

Fluttershy said:


> Isn't this exactly how I thought it is ?
> 
> first scan he even says clones copy the body perfectly and the Byakugan can't tell
> 
> ...



The point being



> anyway, Gae Bolg should work probably even if it's used after the clones are made .. problem is in IC Lancer likes to have his fun in melee before realising he needs Gae Bolg and then it might be too late .. if it's bloodlust though



This is unnecessary.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 31, 2012)

that's true

default conditions really hurt Naruto here


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## Xelloss (Jan 31, 2012)

Grαhf said:


> I think he is asking for feats, not word of god.



Theres no feat the best you can get would be again word of god claiming it would bypass Berserker God hand if he infused with a rune or make it a broken phantasm (not clear what he means on his statement).

Lancer was heavily nerfed on the novel due a command seal so he wouldn't kill a servant.


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## Estrecca (Jan 31, 2012)

Raidou Kuzunoha said:


> There is a difference between the real and fakes. This been the case since Part 1. Recall the fight between Neji & Naruto. He gunned after the real Naruto after he used KB.
> 
> Neji explaining
> 
> ...



You left out a little something.

Namely, Neji gloating about how clever he is and then crapping his pants when the alleged true Naruto turned out to be a Kage Bunshin, after all. 

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## Big Bοss (Jan 31, 2012)

I know that. And as you know this goes by feats, so no feats, no game.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jan 31, 2012)

Estrecca said:


> You left out a little something.
> 
> Namely, Neji gloating about how clever he is and then crapping his pants when the alleged true Naruto turned out to be a Kage Bunshin, after all.
> 
> ...



You missed the point I was going for.

Not to mention the scene after hand he was fine.

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The point being, he does not need to play the guessing game with KB. Someone like Neji on his own can still fight without relying heavily on sight and more on battle instinct.


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## Xelloss (Jan 31, 2012)

Grαhf said:


> I know that. And as you know this goes by feats, so no feats, no game.



And I have try to say Gae bolg is a no go  but alas other think it always work that way, no need to call the name, can bypass all barriers, etc.


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## Big Bοss (Jan 31, 2012)

Xelloss said:


> And I have try to say Gae bolg is a no go  but alas other think it always work that way, no need to call the name, can bypass all barriers, etc.



I have to give you props because you used to be like that, but seems you come to your senses.


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## TehChron (Jan 31, 2012)

Basilikos said:


> I asked earlier but nobody replied so I'll reiterate the question: Can Gae Bolg pierce someone with mountain level durability?



It can pierce objects that seem to possess the ability to tank city-busting attacks.

Not to mention the fact that as a casuality-altering attack, and base Naruto's skin isn't shown to have mountain-level durability, that doesn't matter. 

I hope that answers your question, and also that we can finally move on from this idiotic "Kage Bunshin flack" issue, since, after all_Lancer is going to aim for the original right off the bat, before Naruto gets off his Kage Bunshin no Jutsu_.



Xelloss said:


> And I have try to say Gae bolg is a no go  but alas other think it always work that way, no need to call the name, can bypass all barriers, etc.



I'm pretty sure that even keeping it within feats, the burden of proof lies with showing that Gae Bolg wouldnt be able to pierce the FKM body.


----------



## willyvereb (Jan 31, 2012)

@Grahf: Not really. If character claims/Word of God have nothing to contradict them or put these into doubt then they're accepted, regardless.
Nasuverse is famous for its constant infodumping. Ignoring Word of God is outright impossible.
Not to mention that Gae Bolg was claimed to be a conceptual attack and was only ever stopped by a conceptual barrier (Rho Aias). God Hand was also claimed to block regular Gae Bolg but alas it's another conceptual defense.

So yeah, activated Gae Bolg can ignore the regular durability.


----------



## Big Bοss (Jan 31, 2012)

Nope.

This is how you people claimed planet busting Enuma Elish, you abuse word of god, so unless you bring me a feat of Gae Bolg piercing someone with mountain durability then it can't.

I am about to make a bunch of versus to see how you hold up your "word of god" theory against a bunch of characters.



> It can pierce objects that seem to possess the ability to tank city-busting attacks.



lol.


----------



## willyvereb (Jan 31, 2012)

Except that the above-mentioned planet-busting was never applied in a real debate.
Because Enuma Elish's hax renders most durability issues useless anyways.

And again, we don't ignore the Word of God for any verse unless the claims are controversial with the other evidences. Something you still fail to gasp completely.


----------



## TehChron (Jan 31, 2012)

Grαhf said:


> Nope.
> 
> This is how you people claimed planet busting Enuma Elish, you abuse word of god, so unless you bring me a feat of Gae Bolg piercing someone with mountain durability then it can't.
> 
> ...



Ha. Then lead by example and provide an example of base Naruto tanking a mountain-buster.

I don't mind waiting. I can imagine that with all that butthurt you've got going on there, you'd need to take your time.


----------



## Big Bοss (Jan 31, 2012)

willyvereb said:


> Except that the above-mentioned planet-busting was never applied in a real debate.



It has, several times and it was bullshit.



> And again, we don't ignore the Word of God for any verse unless the claims are controversial with the other evidences. Something you still fail to gasp completely.



Feats > word of god.

Still waiting on those Gae Bolg feats.



> Because Enuma Elish's hax renders most durability issues useless anyways.



You don't say? so EE renders durability useless now? you have a feat for this?



TehChron said:


> Ha. Then lead by example and provide an example of base Naruto tanking a mountain-buster.
> 
> I don't mind waiting. I can imagine that with all that butthurt you've got going on there, you'd need to take your time.



Lol.


----------



## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jan 31, 2012)

willyvereb said:


> @Grahf: Not really. If character claims/Word of God have nothing to contradict them or put these into doubt then they're accepted, regardless.
> Nasuverse is famous for its constant infodumping. Ignoring Word of God is outright impossible.
> Not to mention that Gae Bolg was claimed to be a conceptual attack and was only ever stopped by a conceptual barrier (Rho Aias). God Hand was also claimed to block regular Gae Bolg but alas it's another conceptual defense.
> 
> So yeah, activated Gae Bolg can ignore the regular durability.



Remember GB bypassing a firewall in Extra?


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 31, 2012)

EE destroys space-time -> durability-hax


planet-busting is wanking though .. not that I dissaprove Gil-wank


----------



## Xelloss (Jan 31, 2012)

I have to said it, derailment archived.


----------



## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jan 31, 2012)

Xelloss said:


> I have to said it, derailment archived.



If it involves Nasuverse, this will happen. Without fail.


----------



## Big Bοss (Jan 31, 2012)

Xelloss said:


> I have to said it, derailment archived.



Is bound to happen with all the bullshit some Nasu fans spout.


----------



## TehChron (Jan 31, 2012)

Grαhf said:


> Lol.



Hey, the argument that youre supporting has presented the claim that Naruto possesses Mountain-level durability, therefore, he can tank Gae Bolg without getting pierced.

Therefore, the burden of proof lies on you to provide a feat substantiating this claim.

If you can't prove that, then I guess that means you concede and we can move on?


----------



## willyvereb (Jan 31, 2012)

Grαhf said:


> It has, several times and it was bullshit.


 Yeah, show me one example where Gilgamesh won an OBD battle because he was claimed to be a planetbuster.

Especially I mean recent threads featuring Gilgamesh.

There's exactly none. Even if there are certain hints pointing towards Ea on full power being a planetbuster or at least a life wiper, there's no way Gilgamesh can survive his own attack. So at best the so-called planetbuster would be a complete suicide to him.




> Feats > word of god.
> 
> Still waiting on those Gae Bolg feats.


Indeed. Feats are generally superior to character/author claims.

But the thing is, Gae Bolg's feats don't contradict its associated claims.

So your point is pretty moot.





> You don't say? so EE renders durability useless now? you have a feat for this?


Now you're just dense.

You know what spatial manipulation is, aren't you?

Regular durability offers no protection against attacks that can destroy space-time.


----------



## Basilikos (Jan 31, 2012)

TehChron said:


> It can pierce objects that seem to possess the ability to tank city-busting attacks.
> 
> Not to mention the fact that as a casuality-altering attack, and base Naruto's skin isn't shown to have mountain-level durability, that doesn't matter.
> 
> ...


We aren't talking about base Naruto. And proof that it has pierced something with city level durability, please.



willyvereb said:


> @Grahf: Not really. If character claims/Word of God have nothing to contradict them or put these into doubt then they're accepted, regardless.
> Nasuverse is famous for its constant infodumping. Ignoring Word of God is outright impossible.
> Not to mention that Gae Bolg was claimed to be a conceptual attack and was only ever stopped by a conceptual barrier (Rho Aias). God Hand was also claimed to block regular Gae Bolg but alas it's another conceptual defense.
> 
> So yeah, activated Gae Bolg can ignore the regular durability.


What on earth is "conceptual" stuff?


----------



## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jan 31, 2012)

Basilikos said:


> We aren't talking about base Naruto. And proof that it has pierced something with city level durability, please.
> 
> 
> What on earth is "conceptual" stuff?



Things that can effect the soul. Weapons, abilities that can harm spirits and stuff.


----------



## Big Bοss (Jan 31, 2012)

willyvereb said:


> Yeah, show me one example where Gilgamesh won an OBD battle because he was claimed to be a planetbuster.



You joined in 2010, you weren't here for the shitstorms involving planet buster Gilgamesh.



> There's exactly none. Even if there are certain hints pointing towards Ea on full power being a planetbuster or at least a life wiper, there's no way Gilgamesh can survive his own attack. So at best the so-called planetbuster would be a complete suicide to him.



And this post confirms that you believe he is indeed a planet buster, but you you don't use it for other reasons, lol.



> Indeed. Feats are generally superior to character/author claims.
> 
> But the thing is, *Gae Bolg's feats don't contradict its associated claims.*
> 
> So your point is pretty moot.



The same logic that was/is used for planet buster EE, you people abuse word of god to wank the fuck out of Nasuverse, but unless you bring me a concrete feat then it can't do what the author says, because it doesn't have anything to support it.

So your point is moot.



> Now you're just dense.
> 
> You know what spatial manipulation is, aren't you?
> 
> Regular durability offers no protection against attacks that can destroy space-time.



And once again bring me a feat of EE disregarding durability, don't get me wrong it would wreck pretty much everyone, but once you get to people with mountain durability and up, you are going to need to back up your claims, which is what I am asking for.


----------



## Orochibuto (Jan 31, 2012)

TehChron said:


> Presumably it pierces the heart upon activation, afterwards it just forces the flight path through.
> 
> Naruto doesn't have any feats of regenerating from getting his heart run through, right?



Naruto regenerated a fucking lung in his fight with Sasuke with using just 1 tail of Kyuubi now he has the whole thing.


----------



## willyvereb (Jan 31, 2012)

Raidou Kuzunoha said:


> Things that can effect the soul. Weapons, abilities that can harm spirits and stuff.



Well, not exactly.
Conceptual attacks work by forcing a certain concept on the soul. For example if a weapon has the conceptual effect of fatigue then the enemy would lose all his energy on contact with it.

Or there's Black Barrel that forces "natural death" on the target thus killing the enemy while also effectively nullifying immortality.

Rho Aias for example protects against anything with the concept of "ranged attack". Be iit Archer's arrow, the thrown version of Gae Bolg or even an energy blast from Excalibur, Rho Aias can protect against them. 

Furthermore, technically every spell in the Nasuverse in a way embodies some sort of concept. Heroic Spirits are for example the concept of their past lives and their legend. With greater fame comes the greater power to the Heroic Spirit.


----------



## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jan 31, 2012)

In other news. F/HA patch currently at 73.5%. And Mirror Moon is handling Current Code PC.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 31, 2012)

> F/HA patch currently at 73.5%


fuck yeah, I want some Rider-goodness, fishing Lancer and shota!Gil


----------



## TehChron (Jan 31, 2012)

Orochibuto said:


> Naruto regenerated a fucking lung in his fight with Sasuke with using just 1 tail of Kyuubi now he has the whole thing.


Naruto's never recovered from having his heart pierced. It, like decapitation, is an instant-kill.

Then there's the thousands of spikes that presumably pierce through the entirety of the body (can't really prove that, though) and the fact that Gae Bolg just outright nullifies regeneration of the wounds it inflicts.


Raidou Kuzunoha said:


> In other news. F/HA patch currently at 73.5%. And Mirror Moon is handling Current Code PC.



Isn't Current Code a Key work, though?


----------



## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jan 31, 2012)

TehChron said:


> Isn't Current Code a Key work, though?



Melty Blood: Actress Again Current Code? It's Type Moon w/ French Bread. >.>


----------



## TehChron (Jan 31, 2012)

Was thinking of something else, then.


----------



## willyvereb (Jan 31, 2012)

Grαhf said:


> You joined in 2010, you weren't here for the shitstorms involving planet buster Gilgamesh.


 Join date elitism. How... original.

Anyways, I lurked the site since a while before and read about every thread featuring Gilgamesh and Nasuverse in general. No, I don't think he ever won a fight because he was a planetbuster.

Also I specifically mentioned that you have to bring up recent threads. Which you apparently didn't.

Versus debating evolves with the passage of time. Previous debating methods eventually grow outdated. Just read a HST thread back in 2010 and see as everyone and their mother claim that Luffy would go G2 and speedblitz Beach or Naruto characters to hell.





> And this post confirms that you believe he is indeed a planet buster, but you you don't use it for other reasons, lol.


Well, there's a reason why Gilgamesh never used it, dosnt it?

That could be also the reason why he never really let Ea loose in the real world, unlike he did against Iskander. And before you would resort to the inconsistencies between his Iskander feat and his actions in the "real world".
There's no reason to claim that Gilgamesh has no control over the AoE of Enuma Elish. At least to some extend.
For one, Saber can control the shape of Excalibur's blast as well.





> The same logic that was/is used for planet buster EE, you people abuse word of god to wank the fuck out of Nasuverse, but unless you bring me a concrete feat then it can't do what the author says, because it doesn't have anything to support it.
> 
> So your point is moot.


No, we have the evidence. It's called (surprise!) Word of God.

You, on the other hand didn't supply me anything which contradict with Gae Bolg ignoring durability.

I'm afraid the burden of proof is on you.





> And once again bring me a feat of EE disregarding durability, don't get me wrong it would wreck pretty much everyone, but once you get to people with mountain durability and up, you are going to need to back up your claims, which is what I am asking for.


Except that mere physical durability doesn't automatically give a character defense against spatial attacks.

That's what an ability is being broken about.

Not to mention that Ea has a citybusting feat so I can't see how mountain level durability is out of his league. Seriously, don't be so desperate to downplay the Nasuverse.


----------



## Orochibuto (Jan 31, 2012)

TehChron said:


> Naruto's never recovered from having his heart pierced. It, like decapitation, is an instant-kill.



Becuase regenerating a heart is harder than a lung 

You die without any of those organs.


----------



## willyvereb (Jan 31, 2012)

@Orochibuto: Even if Naruto can regenerate his heart it doesn't really matter. Gae Bolg has a fairly potent curse against both natural and unnatural forms of healing.


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## Big Bοss (Jan 31, 2012)

willyvereb said:


> Join date elitism. How...original.
> 
> Anyways, I lurked the site since a while before and read about every thread featuring Gilgamesh. No, I don't think he ever won a fight because he was a planetbuster.
> 
> ...



Join wat? hahahaha.

The point is going over you head, this is simple, the logic you are using is the same people used back then to claim planet buster EE and if you lurked as you say you did, you would know this, but seems it isn't that way.



> Well, there's a reason why Gilgamesh never used it.
> 
> That could be also the reason why he never really let Ea loose in the real world, unlike he did against Iskander.



See, same logic.

Is funny because the one that brought the Iskander feat was me, to prove what "anti-world" meant, and I went over this sometime ago with Basch, he also charged EE in Ataraxia and guess what? the world and the city were intact, so there goes your theory.



> No, we have the evidence. It's called (surprise!) Word of God.
> 
> You, on the other hand didn't supply me anything which contradict with Gae Bolg ignoring durability.
> 
> I'm afraid the burden of proof is on you.



Lol, you word of god doesn't mean anything if you don't have the feat to back it up, which is the case here and with planet buster EE, what is even more funny is that Xellos someone that used to believe the same things you do know as understand how this works.

Feats > word of god.




> So, let me ask you?
> Except that mere physical durability doesn't automatically give a character defense against spatial attacks.



Funny how Saber was able to survive a blast from EE then, and her armor durability doesn't come close to anything previously mentioned, so you saying:

Saber armor > people with mountain/city/country durability?

Yeah, no.



> That's what an ability is being broken about.



Bad thing feats don't agree with you.



> Not to mention that Ea has a citybusting feat so I can't see how mountain level durability is out of his league.
> 
> You're just spouting BS.



Went over this with Basch too and you have two instances in where Gilgamesh uses EE the same way, charging it and then using it:

1. Iskander RM = all gone = city dimension buster.
2. Ataraxia  = shadows = city and world intact.

So please bring me a feat of EE used in the real world busting a city.

Key word = feat.


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## Basilikos (Jan 31, 2012)

He wasn't appealing to join date elitism, willy. 

Way to miss the point.


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## Orochibuto (Jan 31, 2012)

willyvereb said:


> @Orochibuto: Even if Naruto can regenerate his heart it doesn't really matter. Gae Bolg has a fairly potent curse against both natural and unnatural forms of healing.



Then why could Avalon regen?


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## Xelloss (Jan 31, 2012)

Ok I can see both sides, first all this is under gaea concepts, unless its EA so anything beyond Gaea would pretty much ignore any servant conceptual weapon.

EA city buster claim is because it overpower a full charged excaliblast.


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## willyvereb (Jan 31, 2012)

@Orochibuto: Because Avalon that powerful. Gae Bolg is a B rank Noble Phantasm while Avalon is ranked EX.
Also Avalon only regenerated Saber after many days as opposed to mere seconds. And unlike Saber, Naruto doesn't have the ability to narrowly rewrite destiny. Otherwise Saber would've ended up being dead on the spot.

@Grahf: Because I feel like our discussion would devolve into yet another tl;dl debate with no product I say we're better to put this on hold.

Especially, because I don't have the luxury of free time right now. Perhaps I can later respond to it if you want to. For now all I can say that while I can get your point on feats being superior to claims, we're talking about a purely written literature. Claims themselves are the very base of even the aforementioned feats. Your point may hold some ground in visual media like videogames, comics and motion picture but for written literature it's whole other matter.


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## Big Bοss (Jan 31, 2012)

Excaliblast that isn't a city buster either, because IIRC you are using the Ataraxia feat of the huge ass light covering all the city to wipe out the shadows, but you see while it covered the whole city it didn't destroy one building, so how do you use that to claim city busting power?

But if you have another feat, feel free to correct me.


----------



## TehChron (Jan 31, 2012)

Orochibuto said:


> Becuase regenerating a heart is harder than a lung
> 
> You die without any of those organs.



Oh? I had no idea that people died instantly upon having _just one lung_. On the other hand, there are lots of cases of people dying due to blood ceasing to circulate.

I can't believe you're even comparing the two like that. Way to fail at basic human physiology.


----------



## Big Bοss (Jan 31, 2012)

willyvereb said:


> @Grahf: Because I feel like our discussion would devolve into yet another tl;dl debate with no product I say we're better to put this on hold.
> 
> Especially, because I don't have the luxury of free time right now. Perhaps I can latter respond to it if you want to. For now all I can say that while I can get your point on feats being superior to claims, we're talking about a purely written literature. Claims themselves are the very base of even the aforementioned feats. Your point may hold some ground in visual media like videogames, comics and motion picture but for written literature it's whole other matter.




Even purely written literature has clear feats, Nasuverse, Star Wars, Malazan etc...the problem comes when people try to use word of god to give feats that aren't mentioned in the novel, is the same case that in mangas, for example Oda (yeah tired of using Naruto) says Luffy can bust a mountain and his feats don't contradict his word of god, but they also don't come close to that, then he can't do it.

So you see word of god wasn't contradicted, but it wasn't backed up by feats either, hence he can't do it and we go by the limit he has shown.

But let's leave it here since I got kind of bored, nontheless good debate.


----------



## willyvereb (Jan 31, 2012)

Grαhf said:


> Even purely written literature has clear feats, Nasuverse, Star Wars, Malazan etc...the problem comes when people try to use word of god to give feats that aren't mentioned in the novel, is the same case that in mangas, for example Oda (yeah tired of using Naruto) says Luffy can bust a mountain and his feats don't contradict his word of god, but they also don't come close to that, then he can't do it.
> 
> So you see word of god wasn't contradicted, but it wasn't backed up by feats either, hence he can't do it and we go by the limit he has shown.
> 
> But let's leave it here since I got kind of bored, nontheless good debate.



Again, you're using visual media for comparison. Not to mention that Tsuchikage was often said to be an island-buster based on his claim.
So actually your theory doesn't apply at all.

Before you would try to backpedal, here's an interesting thread of relevance:

Excuse me for bringing up your posting history but it was necessary.

So as long as they're claims from the Narutoverse, they must true? Yeah, right...
Honestly, I sense double standards from you.


Besides, your comparison may only apply for Ea's planetbusting claim. Something that holds no relevance to Nasuverse debates for the very fact it would be a suicide to Gilgamesh.

You still fail to comprehend the fact that Ea has the power to cut, destroy or absorb space-time in its AoE. Something which requires special form of resistance to survive. These form of attacks ignore durability by their description.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Jan 31, 2012)

This thread is giving me lulz chills from all involved.


----------



## Big Bοss (Jan 31, 2012)

willyvereb said:


> , you're using visual media to compare. Not to mention that Tsuchikage was often said to be an island-buster *based on his claim.*
> So actually your theory doesn't apply.



Then let's use pure literature  then:

Word of god says Luke can soulfuck billions of people, but the novels only show him soulfucking 5, word of god isn't contradicted in the rest of the novel, but it isn't backed up by feats either, so Luke can only soulfuck 5 people not billions.

Going by feats.

And no, the Tsuchikage never claimed himself to be an island buster.



> Before you would try to backpedal, here's an interesting thread of relevance:
> 
> Excuse me for bringing up your posting history but it was necessary.
> 
> ...



So this proves what exactly?

You see this scene has the fat dude stopping the Tsuchikage before he nukes Deidara and he says it would destroy the island so he can't do it there, you called that bluff which is wrong since the fat dude knows the Tsuchikage and he was right about to nuke his enemy. He didn't say "imma destroy this whole island" and then didn't do shit, he was going to kill that sucker, but was stopped by someone who knows his power. And later it has the Tsuchikage purposefully putting massive distance between him and the turtle before trying to use the tech again (took this line from Aldric lol).

Unlike Gae Bolg that has never been used against someone with mountain durability and has never been in a situation like the one Tsuchikage was, you are just abusing word of god of "it can pierce everything" when the most it has pierced is Roh Aias that is equal to like 7 fortress or something like that.

And again the Tsuchikage scene isn't like the Cell one either because he didn't say nothing himself, he was just using his attack and got stopped by the fat dude to avoid the destruction of the island.

So in the end this isn't the same case and you still need that feat to claim Gae Blog can pierce people with that kind of durability.



> Besides, your comparison may only apply for Ea's planetbusting claim. Something that holds no relevance to current Nasuverse debates.



Not really, the logic behind planet buster EE is the same behind Gae Bolg can pierce everything.



> You stil fail to comprehend the fact that Ea has the power to cut, destroy or absorb space-time in its AoE. Something which requires special form of resistance to survive. These form of attacks ignore durability by their description.



That is nice and all, but I gave you feats of EE not disregarding durability and such (Saber's case) and her armor durability doesn't hold a candle to people with durability we are arguing.

This is simple, feats or it can't do it.


----------



## Hale (Jan 31, 2012)

Raidou Kuzunoha said:


> There is a difference between the real and fakes. This been the case since Part 1. Recall the fight between Neji & Naruto. He gunned after the real Naruto after he used KB.
> 
> Neji explaining
> 
> ...



No this does much more to hurt you claim then help it if gae bolg is used after shadow clones he most likely hits a clone after reading your scans neji clearly attacks the wrong clone, if you read page 18 right after your fouth link on manga stream you'll see that and the clone bleeds which means something is pumping blood, which means gae bolg takes the heart of lancer's target which is most likely gonna be a clone


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## TehChron (Jan 31, 2012)

I'm still saying that as long as you're are talking about how Naruto presumably has tanked mountain-busters without being scathed, that until you can back that claim up with a legitimate feat you're guilty of some mighty double standards there, Grahf.

Also, Hale. Quit it with the damn bunshin flack argument. Lancer aims Gae Bolg at the original Naruto as he's activating it's effect, therefore, Gae Bolg hits the original Naruto. It doesn't matter if Naruto throws up a massive number of Kage Bunshins after Lancer initiates the attack.

The Original Naruto, which was the target, is still going to be the one that's hit. That's how Gae Bolg works.


----------



## Big Bοss (Jan 31, 2012)

You are right, Bijuu Mode Naruto has box level durability.

My bad.


----------



## TehChron (Jan 31, 2012)

Ha. That honestly made me laugh.


----------



## Hale (Jan 31, 2012)

TehChron said:


> I'm still saying that as long as you're are talking about how Naruto presumably has tanked mountain-busters without being scathed, that until you can back that claim up with a legitimate feat you're guilty of some mighty double standards there, Grahf.
> 
> Also, Hale. Quit it with the damn bunshin flack argument. Lancer aims Gae Bolg at the original Naruto as he's activating it's effect, therefore, Gae Bolg hits the original Naruto. It doesn't matter if Naruto throws up a massive number of Kage Bunshins after Lancer initiates the attack.
> 
> The Original Naruto, which was the target, is still going to be the one that's hit. That's how Gae Bolg works.



Yes I already said that  several pages ago, but lancer isn't going to open up the fight with gae bolg he never does, its far more likely that naruto will have clones around by the time he decides to use it and he's going to probably hit a clone with it


----------



## TehChron (Jan 31, 2012)

The assumption is that they begin the fight bloodlusted. Therefore, he opens with Gae Bolg.


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## Hale (Jan 31, 2012)

TehChron said:


> The assumption is that they begin the fight bloodlusted. Therefore, he opens with Gae Bolg.



I was under the assumption that bloodlusted means they were trying to kill thier opponent and big bang means they use their strongest attack immediately


----------



## TehChron (Jan 31, 2012)

...

Alright, I'll bite. Why does Lancer not use Gae Bolg under those circumstances, then?


----------



## familyparka (Jan 31, 2012)

Grαhf said:


> You are right, Bijuu Mode Naruto has box level durability.
> 
> My bad.



Actually is fagg level


----------



## Big Bοss (Jan 31, 2012)

Oh you are so funny.


----------



## Matta Clatta (Jan 31, 2012)

I did want to ask what exactly made excaliblast a city buster but if its just a blast that travels in a linear fashion for over a few kilometers then I don't see how its any different then when people get punted through mountains by an energy attack or some such.
I'm aware of it matching up to EE but that attack's destructive capacity definitely needs to be called into question as well it seems.


----------



## Amae (Jan 31, 2012)

If a blast is capable of disintegrating everything in its path and it goes on for several kilometers, it's a city buster.


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## familyparka (Jan 31, 2012)

Amae said:


> If a blast is capable of disintegrating everything in its path and it goes on for several kilometers, it's a city buster.



Right, so for you a really long lightsaber is a city buster?


----------



## Big Bοss (Jan 31, 2012)

Amae said:


> If a blast is capable of disintegrating everything in its path and it goes on for several kilometers, it's a city buster.



And this happen when? 

I mean bring the feat and is done deal.


----------



## TehChron (Jan 31, 2012)

Grαhf said:


> And this happen when?
> 
> I mean bring the feat and is done deal.



There is the 00 Riser, but I'm honestly inclined to think of it as a city-buster myself, considering what it did to the A-Laws fleet and Memento Mori space station.


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## Big Bοss (Jan 31, 2012)

I was asking for Exaclibur's feat not Gundam....


----------



## Matta Clatta (Jan 31, 2012)

Amae said:


> If a blast is capable of disintegrating everything in its path and it goes on for several kilometers, it's a city buster.



If its only traveling the length of a city and not actually enveloping it in volume then its not a city buster. The attack's range is city level unhindered when it actually hits something that can stand up to it, it stops.

Saber used it to blow away that cthulu like monster and that's the extent of its power IIRC because it didn't keep traveling after that.


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## TehChron (Jan 31, 2012)

Grαhf said:


> I was asking for Exaclibur's feat not Gundam....



Ah, I was referring to his comment about Lighsabers.

Unless he was referring to Saber Alter?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 31, 2012)

Excaliblast destroys every atom in a multi-block area .. I'm sure it's not calcable into yields, but I think it's safe to say that's a healthy deal more powerful then just levelling buildings in a multi-block area (which makes a generic multi-block DC)


does stuff caught in a nuke's fireball get all of it's atoms destroyed ? Or only molecules ?




Saber taking Ea ? Was that on their date in Fate route ? Afaik that was a really really low-power Ea and the space-time rape hax don't show up unless it's powered up more

unless you meant something else


Avalon can of course no sell Ea, it's even more hax


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## philharmonic21 (Jan 31, 2012)

Matta Clatta said:


> I did want to ask what exactly made excaliblast a city buster but if its just a blast that travels in a linear fashion for over a few kilometers then I don't see how its any different then when people get punted through mountains by an energy attack or some such.
> I'm aware of it matching up to EE but that attack's destructive capacity definitely needs to be called into question as well it seems.



For the point on Ea and I'm not really sure how specifically strong it is (it supposed max output and range is limited to the person using it and since it comes from the Gate of Babylon is supposedly gets and attack boost due to Gilgamesh)  and the supposed Planet Busting thing probably comes its Anti-World Designation.

Although it is called called Anti-World comes more from how it works and not how much it can destroy. 

At full power(or charge don't remember which) Ea rips time and space a new one, and shows the Earth before it became what it was today. Or if you want to be technical and use its name, then Enuma Elish rips apart reality and shows the Earth they way it was before Heaven and Earth were split.

There is a whole bunch of Nasubabble explanation after all this but basically Ea destroys things by tearing apart the very nature of Earth and showing the state of the planet when it was newly formed from that tear. (The state of the world at that point basically seems kind of like a hell or nothingness if you go by the description of it from the Fate Zero Novel or Fate Hollow.) 

Everything in the attacks path is sucked into the void by the winds. It destroyed FZ Rider's Reality Marble, but I'm not sure whether that was from the lack of soldiers there to maintain it or if the attack rip it a new one.

Ea not fully charged doesn't have enough power to do all that, so all the times we see him holding it back and not just completely destroying people can be attributed to this.

So Naruto could probably survive a not fully charged Ea, but I don't think even the Kyuubi clock can save him from reality being ripped apart.

Also I thought Excalibur was only about Town-level due to destroying Caster's monster and some of the area around it.


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## Orochibuto (Jan 31, 2012)

TehChron said:


> Oh? I had no idea that people died instantly upon having _just one lung_. On the other hand, there are lots of cases of people dying due to blood ceasing to circulate.
> 
> I can't believe you're even comparing the two like that. Way to fail at basic human physiology.



It isnt like a bullet to the head, you can actually live if even for a few seconds with the heart pierced, and if the heart is under a system that is constantly regenerating meaning that the momment the heart is pierced it will start to regenerate like his lungs, in seconds.

Fuck, do you have any idea of how uncontrolled KN4-8 transformations work? This was WAY worse than having organ penetration.


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## philharmonic21 (Jan 31, 2012)

Orochibuto said:


> It isnt like a bullet to the head, you can actually live if even for a few seconds with the heart pierced, and if the heart is under a system that is constantly regenerating meaning that the momment the heart is pierced it will start to regenerate like his lungs, in seconds.
> 
> Fuck, do you have any idea of how uncontrolled KN4-8 transformations work? This was WAY worse than having organ penetration.



Well Gae Bolg doesn't just pierce the heart, but it releases many barbs (I think that the name) out of it as well that explodes out from the point of impact. 

This means that it also shreds the heart from the inside out once hit and it has a passive ability that seems to negate regeneration (well energy base regeneration at least)


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## Orochibuto (Jan 31, 2012)

philharmonic21 said:


> Well Gae Bolg doesn't just pierce the heart, but it releases many barbs (I think that the name) out of it as well that explodes out from the point of impact.
> 
> This means that it also shreds the heart from the inside out once hit and it has a passive ability that seems to negate regeneration (well energy base regeneration at least)



If it negates regeneration Naruto would lose as apparently the weapon cant miss so dodging is not an option. But how is it that avalon can regenerate even when hit by it then?


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## Xelloss (Jan 31, 2012)

Willy already explain it, the mystery behind Avalon is greater.


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## pikachuwei (Jan 31, 2012)

I still think that with speed equal Naruto can get off shadow clones quicker than Lancer can get off Gae Bolg and because shadow clones are exact replicas of the original Lancer may accidentally kill a clone

not that it matters as FKM naruto keels Lancer quite easily with speed equal


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## philharmonic21 (Jan 31, 2012)

Orochibuto said:


> If it negates regeneration Naruto would lose as apparently the weapon cant miss so dodging is not an option. But how is it that avalon can regenerate even when hit by it then?



Well I think someone else brought up a reason why but I'll answer you in another way.

Not getting into annoying Nasubabble, Avalon works more like divine protection than anything else. 

Although regeneration is its passive ability, that passive ability probably comes from the fact that a fully activated Avalon can protect someone from negative damages and basically puts Saber on a higher level of existence with the land of fairies.

There is a longer and more detailed explanation somewhere but this is basically the gist of it


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## Orochibuto (Jan 31, 2012)

Xelloss said:


> Willy already explain it, the mystery behind Avalon is greater.



That doesnt tell me much. Again I am willing to accept Naruto lose based on the regeneration negation, I just want to know why Avalon what makes Avalon "greater".


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## Xelloss (Jan 31, 2012)

Rank, NP are clasified due to their power

E D C B A EX

Gae bolg B
Avalon Ex


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## pikachuwei (Feb 1, 2012)

Well Ea and Avalon are both EX 

:3


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