# Dual Rinnegan Madara VS DMS Kakashi



## Raiken (Jul 22, 2015)

Kakashi has Obito's Spirit and Chakra+stolen Six Paths Sage Chakra; along with both MS.
Revived Madara has Hashirama's DNA and both Rinnegan.

S1: Dual Rinnegan Madara VS DMS Kakashi
S2: Dual Rinnegan SM Madara VS DMS Kakashi

Knowledge:
Madara has Manga Knowledge of Kamui, which is a moderate level of knowledge on how both eyes work.
Kakashi has full knowledge on Susano'o and no knowledge at all on Limbo Hengoku.
Knows about Chibaku Tensei and Preta Path. Knowledge of Mokuton based on what Kakashi has seen Madara do.


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## Ryuzaki (Jul 22, 2015)

Madara doesn't have the Juubi and/or Shinju Tree, which means he is not immortal. Kakashi doesn't have the Rin'negnan, so he won't be able to see the copies of Madara's Limbo. However, its possible that Kakashi would be able to sense them, in the same way Naruto was able to. If that's the case, Kakashi does have the advantage.


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## Mercurial (Jul 22, 2015)

This isn't even Juubi jinchuriki Madara? Kakashi just blitzes him with Kamui Raikiri or warps his ass with Kamui before Madara even processes anything. Kaguya wasn't able to even try to defend against Kakashi's dash with Kamui Raikiri and Sasuke, who could casually react and intercept Juudara's Linbo, was unable to do anything in time to counter Kaguya's S/T jutsu, that DMS Kakashi's long range Kamui totally outspeeded. Chibaku Tensei, Mokuton and all the other things simply aren't happening since Madara is killed in seconds, not to mention that Kakashi would still phase or teleport away from them anyway. Kakashi can camp in Perfect Susanoo so Linbo isn't doing shit, and Kamui GG is faster than Linbo anyway.

To have a match that should be Rinnegan Juubi jinchuriki Madara vs DMS Rikudo Kakashi. And Madara still won't have answers to Kamui GG (faster than his reactions and uncounterable/unstoppable) and Kamui Raikiri. Kakashi would avoid Mugen Tsukuyomi by teleporting to the other dimension while it is in effect and dodge every shit Juudara throws at him by phasing. Linbo is still painfully outspeeded by Kamui, not to mention that Kakashi is far smarter than Madara in a fight. By portrayal, Madara is definitely weaker than Kaguya, and Kakashi performed very, very, very well against the strongest version of Kaguya, definitely better than what Naruto and Sasuke did together against a less powerful Kaguya than the one Kakashi fought.


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## Rocky (Jul 22, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> Kakashi performed very, very, very well against the strongest version of Kaguya, definitely better than what Naruto and Sasuke did together against a less powerful Kaguya than the one Kakashi fought.



He did?

Naruto alone did the _same thing_ Kakashi did, except he injured her even more and did so _without_ the surprise of suddenly being able to pass through objects.

And just sayin', Plot no Jutsu was _at its peak _during that point in the manga.


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## Mercurial (Jul 22, 2015)

Rocky said:


> He did?
> 
> Naruto alone did the _same thing_ Kakashi did, except he injured her even more and did so _without_ the surprise of suddenly being able to pass through objects.
> 
> And just sayin', Plot no Jutsu was _at its peak _during that point in the manga.



You are (conveniently?) forgetting that Naruto attacked a weakened Kaguya (1) (who was also able to casually dodge Sasuke's Rinnegan S/T + Chidori) when Kakashi fought and actually bested (he defended from her and directly wounded her 1 vs 1 with Kamui Raikiri) a recovered Kaguya who is said to be stronger and faster, aka more powerful, than before (2).

DMS Kakashi like completely changed the flow of the battle. Before him, Naruto and Sasuke were on the losing side, Naruto was holding his own decently but Sasuke was completely outclassed; both together didn't to better than Kakashi did alone against a stronger version of the same character. Hell, even in the final attack, Naruto and Sasuke would have never landed Rikudo Chibaku Tensei on Kaguya if Kakashi didn't manage to wound Kaguya, providing them room to attack her, and warp away Kaguya's S/T with Kamui, saving Naruto's life and stopping her last counter. Kaguya was at that point completely busy with Naruto and Sasuke, she noticed Sakura thrown from above by Kakashi's PS but even if she dodged her then Naruto and Sasuke would have flanked her in the same moment, she was doomed because of Kakashi's strategy from the start. She wouldn't have been able to run away with her S/T because Kakashi would have outspeeded her portal warping it away with Kamui as he just did, so she was fucked up.


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## S (Jul 22, 2015)

Strongest version of Madara would have problem against DMS Kakashi because gg Kamui (yes, he is that broken) Madara without the Juubi juice would get blitzed left and right from the get go.

There is a reason why Kakashi's power up only lasted for like 1 or 2 chapters..he was to damn broken.


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## Amol (Jul 22, 2015)

Madara beats him with I don't know diff .


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## Mercurial (Jul 22, 2015)

S said:


> Strongest version of Madara would have problem against DMS Kakashi because gg Kamui (yes, he is that broken) Madara without the Juubi juice would get blitzed left and right from the get go.
> 
> There is a reason why Kakashi's power up only lasted for like 1 or 2 chapters..he was to damn broken.



Exactly. The funny thing is that by feats it's not like even Juubi jinchuriki Madara would to that much better against DMS Rikudo Kakashi.


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## Trojan (Jul 22, 2015)

Madara fodderstomps him with his Limbo clones.

DMS Kakashi is more or less on the same level as EMS Madara (without Kurama).


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## DaVizWiz (Jul 22, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Madara fodderstomps him with his Limbo clones.
> 
> DMS Kakashi is more or less on the same level as EMS Madara (without Kurama).


DMS Kakashi has a faster, flying, more powerful Susano w/ Kamui Shuriken, intangibility, nigh-instantaneous teleportation, Double Kamui Snipe & Black Raikiri that fucked up Kaguya. On top of this all, he's mentally and physically faster. 

A clear superior shinobi compared to EMS Madara with or without Kurama. 

As far as this simulation is concerned, Double Rikudo Kamui is faster than Limbo- he's sniped at start battle.


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## Trojan (Jul 22, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> DMS Kakashi has a faster, more powerful Susano w/ Kamui Shuriken, intangibility, nigh-instantaneous teleportation, Double Kamui Snipe & Black Raikiri that fucked up Kaguya.
> 
> He's clearly superior to EMS Madara with or without Kurama.
> 
> As far as this simulation is concerned, Double Kamui is faster than Limbo- he's sniped at start battle.



Kakashi's Kamui Shurken can be countered with Madara's PS blades. Which by the way Madara showed that he can at least use 12 at the same time while Kakashi used 4. 

Kakashi's PS can't use Kamui in itself which is why Kaguya's attack was able to hit it and destroy it.

- Sakura's punch fucked up Kaguya as well, is she stronger than Madara? 
Kakashi only has the sharingan/MS he won't even be able to see the Limbo, whom madara can use 5 of them when using both of his eyes. How do you expect Kakashi to fight something he can't even see or counter?


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## Mercurial (Jul 22, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Madara fodderstomps him with his Limbo clones.
> 
> DMS Kakashi is more or less on the same level as EMS Madara (without Kurama).



Yeah, that's logical. 

EMS Madara is far less weaker than EMS Madara + Kurama who is just slightly above base Hashirama, definitely below SM Hashirama anyway, who is self admittedly far below Juubito, who is fodder compared to Kaguya, let alone her strongest version. He has a Perfect Susanoo not enhanced with Rikudo chakra, plus great speed, taijutsu, Sharingan with precognition and genjutsu, mastery of Katon ninjutsu, Izanagi.

Kakashi fought the strongest version of Kaguya, stronger than the one that Naruto and Sasuke previously fought since she powered up herself absorbing chakra from the IT victims; he countered her giant form and her human form and he managed to wound her, and he directly lead to her defeat. He has a Perfect Susanoo enhanced with Rikudo chakra and that he can use in combo with his Kamui powers, has Rikudo chakra enhancing his dojutsu and his other jutsu, has Kamui space-time barrier for offense, Kamui phasing for defense, Kamui self teleporting with both eyes that maximize the speed, Kamui Raikiri, Kamui Shuriken, mastery of bushinjutsu and Raiton, great skill with Suiton and Doton, great speed, taijutsu, Rasengan, Sharingan with precognition and genjutsu all enhanced with Rikudo chakra, not to mention his smartness. Yet he is more or less on par with EMS Madara.

OMG you never fail to fail 

This is probably even more hilarious than your thing about Itachi = Jiraiya = Orochimaru = Tsunade or that Tobirama is a fodder.


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## Ryuzaki (Jul 22, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Kakashi's Kamui Shurken can be countered with Madara's PS blades. Which by the way Madara showed that he can at least use 12 at the same time while Kakashi used 4.
> 
> Kakashi's PS can't use Kamui in itself which is why Kaguya's attack was able to hit it and destroy it.
> 
> ...



Where do you think the Tsunade hype comes from?


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## Mercurial (Jul 22, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Sakura's punch fucked up Kaguya as well, is she stronger than Madara?
> Kakashi only has the sharingan/MS he won't even be able to see the Limbo, whom madara can use 5 of them when using both of his eyes. How do you expect Kakashi to fight something he can't even see or counter?



Come on, still that shit that everyone laughs on? Kaguya was wounded by Kakashi and distracted by Naruto and Sasuke being an inch to seal her when she witnessed Sakura above her and was hit by her punch. She was completely fine and without any distraction when she attacked Kakashi, got dodged by Kamui phasing and got wounded after Kakashi dashed against her from his Susanoo and used Kamui Raikiri. There was no one in sight there. Naruto and Sasuke arrived only after Kakashi wounded her.

Kakashi can just kill Madara with Kamui before he does anything, since his Kamui is faster than Kaguya's S/T that would completely blitz Madara. Linbo isn't happening before Madara is warped away. Not to mention that if Kakashi camps in PS then Linbo is not happening even if Kakashi doesn't oneshot Madara from the get go.


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## Trojan (Jul 22, 2015)

> [=Raikiri19;54033765]Yeah, that's logical.
> 
> EMS Madara is far less weaker than EMS Madara + Kurama who is just slightly above base Hashirama, definitely below SM Hashirama anyway, who is self admittedly far below Juubito, who is fodder compared to Kaguya, let alone her strongest version. He has a Perfect Susanoo not enhanced with Rikudo chakra, plus great speed, taijutsu, Sharingan with precognition and genjutsu, mastery of Katon ninjutsu, Izanagi.



Except Hashirama used his SM in both times he fought Madara. Same madara who for some reason decided to not use Izanagi within the fight itself, but preferred to wait, and fooled Hashirama.

- Your logic is dumb. Tobirama used his FTG against JJ Obito successfully several times, even tho JJ Obito is obviously stronger than 1 eye Juubi-less Madara. However, when it came down to it, Tobirama got fodderstompped in 1 second despite attacking from Madara's back. 



> He has a Perfect Susanoo not enhanced with Rikudo chakra,


Says you? 
Rinnegan Madara awakened Hago's chakra by combining both Asura and Indra's chakra as Hago
said so himself.



> Kakashi fought the strongest version of Kaguya, stronger than the one that Naruto and Sasuke previously fought since she powered up herself absorbing chakra from the IT victims; he countered her giant form and her human form and he managed to wound her, and he directly lead to her defeat.


Cool story. Except as I previously said, it's the same thing with Sakura hitting her. Or SM Naruto & Tobirama hitting JJ Obito, and so on. Hell, from the look of it, even Boruto is going to land his attacks on those opponent that are stronger than Kaguya, I wonder if people will say he is stronger than Hago if he did.  



> He has a Perfect Susanoo enhanced with Rikudo chakra and that he can use in combo with his Kamui powers, has Rikudo chakra enhancing his dojutsu and his other jutsu, has Kamui space-time barrier for offense, Kamui phasing for defense, Kamui self teleporting with both eyes that maximize the speed, Kamui Raikiri, Kamui Shuriken, mastery of bushinjutsu and Raiton, great skill with Suiton and Doton, great speed, taijutsu, Rasengan, Sharingan with precognition and genjutsu all enhanced with Rikudo chakra, not to mention his smartness. Yet he is more or less on par with EMS Madara.


Lol, and Madara was going to use Limbo for that to stop Obito. The only reason he did not is because
Obito had the Rinnegan and was going to be able to see the clones. Being able to teleport and teleprot other shit is cool and all, but if Kakashi does not even know what is coming to hit how, there is no way he would be able to counter. It's really that simple. 




> OMG you never fail to fail
> 
> This is probably even more hilarious than your thing about Itachi = Jiraiya = Orochimaru = Tsunade or that Tobirama is a fodder.



OMG you never fail to fail! 

I am sure you will good acting as a drama queen.


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## DaVizWiz (Jul 22, 2015)

Hussain, combining Indra & Ashura's transmigrants' chakra doesn't translate to attaining Hagoromo's chakra. 

They were his sons, not him.

If anything he acquired weaker variations of Hagoromo's powers (Rinnegan), not his chakra.

A percentage of Hagoromo's chakra (without being a Juubi Jinchuriki) made EMS Sasuke as powerful as the strongest version of Madara, with the Juubi & Shinju (Forehead Rinnesharingan) absorbed. 

You think Rinnegan Madara without the Juubi and Shinju is even worth mentioning in a sentence with Hagoromo or his chakra?


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## Trojan (Jul 22, 2015)

Hago begs to differ. 
Even when he emerged out of Madara's half body when Hashirama touched it, he said the
same shit again.


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## DaVizWiz (Jul 22, 2015)

His chakra would never have been close to Hagoromo's in power or overall transcendence.  

Hagoromo's pitty chakra (Yin Seal) turned a High Kage into a God, enhancing (at least double) every part of his abilities (speed, durability, strength, chakra pool, ninjutsu, genjutsu, taijutsu, healing) and granting him unfathomable new ones (Lightning-coated flying Susano, dimensional travel, Preta Path, Chibaku Tensei, Invisible Sight, Rinnesharingan Glare, Black Chidori). 

Rinnegan Madara gives you all of his chakra- you wouldn't transcend at all. You would have a larger chakra pool.


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## Santoryu (Jul 22, 2015)

"Plot no jutsu" is a tenuous argument in this context. I've lost count on how many upgrades Naruto has received for the sake of the plot.


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## Shinobi no Kami (Jul 22, 2015)

madara is superior to kakashi. 

madaras PS blades replenish so fast that he can literally throw countless amounts of them with no sort of cooldown. kamui shurikens are simply intercepted. they arent a factor. in any sort of long range stand-off, kakashi gets obliterated.

kakashis PS doesnt do cant do anything that madaras cant quite frankly and kakashi isnt ever breaking madaras susano. 
madaras susano was only ever destroyed by 2 attacks. shinsuusenjus chojo kebetsu and 4 super juubi bijudamas. neither actually damaged madara through his susano.

without PS, kakashis intangibility is worn out by battlefield razing katons. having 4 limbo on standby make madaras job easier if kakashi attempts cqc, since kakashi cant see or sense them.


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## DaVizWiz (Jul 22, 2015)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> madara is superior to kakashi.
> 
> madaras PS blades replenish so fast that he can literally throw countless amounts of them with no sort of cooldown. kamui shurikens are simply intercepted. they arent a factor. in any sort of long range stand-off, kakashi gets obliterated.
> 
> ...


Lengthy battle? 

Dude, he warps him at start battle with Double Kamui. 

And no, Kakashi's PS is clearly superior as it's enhanced with Rikudo chakra, can fly, and is fast enough to avoid Kaguya's chakra arms.

Blocking Kamui Shuriken? Oh, so now his Susano > Kaguya's Rabbit Monster Arms? 

Doesn't need it anyway, stays intangible indefinitely with Rikudo powered Double Kamui and opts to perform open heart surgery on Madara's midsection with Kamui Raikiri, as he did to Kaguya's shoulder.


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## UchihaX28 (Jul 22, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Madara fodderstomps him with his Limbo clones.
> 
> DMS Kakashi is more or less on the same level as EMS Madara (without Kurama).



 - Limbo Clones can't penetrate Rikudou Enhanced PS.

 - No he's not unless you believe EMS Madara can blitz the strongest version of Kaguya.


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## Shinobi no Kami (Jul 22, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> Lengthy battle?
> 
> Dude, he warps him at start battle with Double Kamui.


kamui has a long range eye and a short range eye that also possesses intangibility. "double long range kamui" doesnt exist.



> And no, Kakashi's PS is clearly superior as it's enhanced with Rikudo chakra, can fly, and is fast enough to avoid Kaguya's chakra arms.


kakashi has no rikudo chakra. obitos eyes were empowered from when he did have rikudo chakra. kakashi simply received obitos normal chakra which was empowered from when he was a juubi jin.

either way, rikudo chakra is irrelevant. it doesnt increase susanos power as shown with madara. it increased kakashi and sasukes eye power which allowed them to invoke it. thats the difference.

all PS can fly simply because all PS have wings as stated by the databook, which lists madara as its only user, so that entry is referring to his PS specifically.



> Blocking Kamui Shuriken? Oh, so now his Susano > Kaguya's Rabbit Monster Arms?


he intercepts kamui shurikens by lobbing countless PS blades.



> Doesn't need it anyway, stays intangible indefinitely with Rikudo powered Double Kamui and opts to perform open heart surgery on Madara's midsection with Kamui Raikiri, as he did to Kaguya's shoulder.


this is some interesting fanfiction.

unlimited intangibility?

kakashi attacking someone while his body is in a different dimension?

however, while this fantasy of yours is entertaining, its time to come back to reality. there is a 5 minute time limit on kamuis intangibility and kakashi has to actually be tangible to hit madara.


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## UchihaX28 (Jul 22, 2015)

Rikudou Chakra enhances Dojutsu, therefore Intangibility can last far more than 5 minutes.


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## Trojan (Jul 22, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> - Limbo Clones can't penetrate Rikudou Enhanced PS.
> 
> - No he's not unless you believe EMS Madara can blitz the strongest version of Kaguya.



- Proof? 
- Retarded argument is retarded. 

Shin almost killed Naruto and Sasuke, and then Sakura almost killed him. 

Sakura is the strongest? 

Lee fodderstompped madara with one kick.

He is stronger than Hashirama?


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## Bonly (Jul 22, 2015)

Either Madara's Limbo clones beat Kakashi to death or Kakashi eventually lands some type of Kamui attack on Madara which depends on how the battle plays out so I'd say 50/50 imo


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## UchihaX28 (Jul 22, 2015)

Hussain said:


> - Proof?
> - Retarded argument is retarded.



 Proof that Kakashi's Rikudou Enhanced PS is more durable than any of the 8 Bijuu and BM Naruto's Avatar? Yeah, it's no needed.



> Shin almost killed Naruto and Sasuke, and then Sakura almost killed him.



 - No knowledge on abilities.

 - Naruto's combat instincts were said to be rusty to the point that Kurama joked about it.

 - They were overprotective of the kids and Sasuke suffered plot nerf.


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## Trojan (Jul 22, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> Proof that Kakashi's Rikudou Enhanced PS is more durable than any of the 8 Bijuu and BM Naruto's Avatar? Yeah, it's no needed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



- Good, so you have got nothing. Thank you, moving on...
- So? Did he know about their abilities? Does Kakashi know about the Limbo clones? 
- And? You think Sakura can defeat Naruto from the Gaiden? 
- I don't care about your excuses, I do care about what happened.

If Naruto was rusty from 10 years or so, imagine poor Kaguya being sealed away for a thousand year! 


I am glad that you seem to agree than Lee is stronger than Hashirama since he did what Hashirama couldn't!


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## The Undying (Jul 22, 2015)

Was Kakashi's PS actually "Rikudou enhanced", or did Obito's Six Paths power merely boost him to the degree that he was able to _use_ PS? I feel like this territory is a little too speculative for people to be throwing around absolutes here.


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## Trojan (Jul 22, 2015)

his eyes became more powerful. The whole PS and the other shit is Fan-fiction for the most part.


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## Hachibi (Jul 22, 2015)

>Implying PS doesn't come form the eyes.


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## UchihaX28 (Jul 22, 2015)

The Undying said:


> Was Kakashi's PS actually "Rikudou enhanced", or did Obito's Six Paths power merely boost him to the degree that he was able to _use_ PS? I feel like this territory is a little too speculative for people to be throwing around absolutes here.



 Yes.

 Rikudou Chakra instantly flows through the cranial nerves as shown when Hagoromo's Yin Chakra instantly awakened Sasuke's Rinnegan. Because Susano'o is dependant on the user's chakra, then Kakashi's Chakra was indeed Rikudou Enhanced.


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## UchihaX28 (Jul 22, 2015)

Hussain said:


> his eyes became more powerful. The whole PS and the other shit is Fan-fiction for the most part.



 Susano'o is classified as a Dojutsu.

 Dojutsu are ocular abilities.

 You're clearly trolling, but stop, this is too much.


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## Trojan (Jul 22, 2015)

The --.  
Kakashi was barely able to see with his MS
2

gaining that power restored the eye's vision. In addition, normally, and mainly my point to him, is the MS not being
able to use PS. So, even with that power (which we don't know how much he got to begin with) made that nearly dead eye to use something that require EMS to use. That's already a huge power up. 

Otherwise, we don't have anything to say that his PS is more durable or any of that crap. If it was so, then
Hashirama wouldn't have been able to deal with Madara's PS after the whole Rinnegan/Hago/Asura/Hashirama's chakra being given to him.


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## The Undying (Jul 22, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> Rikudou Chakra instantly flows through the cranial nerves as shown when Hagoromo's Yin Chakra instantly awakened Sasuke's Rinnegan. Because Susano'o is dependant on the user's chakra, then Kakashi's Chakra was indeed Rikudou Enhanced.



The Rinnegan was never said to be awakened by Hagoromo's Yin chakra, though. Actually, the two power-ups were never implied to have a direct connection at all aside from being gifts from Hagoromo.

And even if you're right, it doesn't really contradict the alternative interpretation. I'm not disputing Kakashi's chakra being "Rikudou enhanced", I'm asking whether it was enhanced to the point of making his PS stronger than Madara's or if it was enhanced to the point of just reaching the _Kanseitei Susanoo_ stage in general. Both possibilities seem valid to me.


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## UchihaX28 (Jul 22, 2015)

The Undying said:


> The Rinnegan was never said to be awakened by Hagoromo's Yin chakra, though. Actually, the two power-ups were never implied to have a direct connection at all aside from being gifts from Hagoromo.



 Dojutsu is the reflection of one's Chakra within the brain. Hagoromo only gifted Naruto and Sasuke with a half of his Chakra with Sasuke receiving his Yin Portion, so Hagoromo's Chakra is what allowed Sasuke to awaken his Rinnegan within that instant. If not, tell me exactly how Hagoromo gifted Sasuke with his Rinnegan if his Yin Chakra wasn't the component that awakened his Rinnegan.



> And even if you're right, it doesn't really contradict the alternative interpretation. I'm not disputing Kakashi's chakra being "Rikudou enhanced", I'm asking whether it was enhanced to the point of making his PS stronger than Madara's or if it was enhanced to the point of just reaching the _Kanseitei Susanoo_ stage in general. Both possibilities seem valid to me.



 Both. You need a high enough quality of Chakra in order to awaken PS which is why only EMS Users (excluding Kakashi) could awaken it. Simply because it's a more powerful Dojutsu as it involves the combination of 2 different Chakras to form a greater one.

 What's interesting here is that this also applies to Kakashi. Not only does Kakashi have his own Chakra and Dojutsu capabilities that even Madara concedes as impressive, but he also has Obito's own Chakra which is enhanced by Senju DNA. This involved a fusion of 2 different Chakras as well (both at a fairly high level) could have led to Kakashi being able to manifest Perfect Susano'o.

 Even then, Naruto also conceded to Kakashi's PS being very impressive for the situation and it only being on par with Madara's PS and vastly inferior to Sasuke's PS doesn't seem right to me at all when up agains the Strongest Version of Kaguya.


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## The Undying (Jul 22, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> Dojutsu is the reflection of one's Chakra within the brain. Hagoromo only gifted Naruto and Sasuke with a half of his Chakra with Sasuke receiving his Yin Portion, so Hagoromo's Chakra is what allowed Sasuke to awaken his Rinnegan within that instant. If not, tell me exactly how Hagoromo gifted Sasuke with his Rinnegan if his Yin Chakra wasn't the component that awakened his Rinnegan.



Simple; Sasuke already possessed the needed prerequisites (Indra and Ashura chakra as well as a near-death experience) for Rinnegan, so Hagoromo may have "activated" it so to speak. Moreover, Hagoromo's Yin chakra wasn't contained in Sasuke's brain, it was contained within the seal on his palm as _this page_ (and _this page_) not-so-subtly demonstrates. Sasuke retaining the Rinnegan after the seal vanished is a perfectly solid indication that those power-ups weren't directly related.



NarutoX28 said:


> Even then, Naruto also conceded to Kakashi's PS being very impressive for the situation and it only being on par with Madara's PS and vastly inferior to Sasuke's PS doesn't seem right to me at all when up agains the Strongest Version of Kaguya.



That's a fair point. To be clear, I'm not arguing that Kakashi's PS is weaker than Sasuke's, I just don't see any confirmation as to whether we should scale factors like durability and strength in regards to different versions of Susanoo when we have Kakashi's PS casually getting shattered by an attack from Kaguya. Kakashi also seemed to be relying more on his upgraded Kamui abilities than Susanoo itself.


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## Trojan (Jul 22, 2015)

^

That's just a fabrication and the usual Kakashi wank, how is it a fair point? 
Naruto said Kakashi's Susanoo is cooler than Sasuke's. Not stronger. 

That's like saying since Naruto said Obito is awesome/the coolest, therefore he is the strongest character. lol
when being cool and strong have nothing to do with each other...


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## ARGUS (Jul 23, 2015)

If madara gets the manga based rikudo boost that he got in his susanoo then Kakashi shits 
if however he gets the hypothetical rikudo chakra boost that he should have within him that allowed him to awaken the rinnegan, then he wins this


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## MS81 (Jul 23, 2015)

Let's see... Kamui vs Limbo. if Kakashi could use sensory experience with DMS he will have a chance.


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## Mercurial (Jul 23, 2015)

DMS Kakashi has no Rikudo chakra. Top lel da lol



About Kamui and Linbo. We know that Rinnegan Sasuke could easily react to Linbo, more than once, and counter it/defend from it, more than once; the same Rinnegan Sasuke was blitzed by Kaguya's S/T (1)(2) (with Naruto being nearly blitzed too, and he also could dodge Linbo, even when he fought in his weaker form (3)). The same S/T that Kakashi easily reacted to, and outspeeded in execution with his long range version of Kamui (4)(5). So if Madara tries to one-shot with Linbo, Kakashi will always one-shot faster with Kamui, warping his head off before he can react. Not to mention that Kakashi can camp in flying Rikudo enhanced Perfect Susanoo and use Kamui from there, safe and sure.


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## DaVizWiz (Jul 23, 2015)

The Madara wank in this thread is strong.


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## Ryuzaki (Jul 23, 2015)

Shouldn't Kakashi be able to sense Limbo like Naruto? If that's the case then a knee jerk intangibility would solve that issue.


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## DaVizWiz (Jul 23, 2015)

Naruto was in Six Path Sage Mode, well actually he wasn't because he avoided it in Base (even though his eyes displayed BSM)
[1] [2]

And that was Six Paths Senjutsu Border Jail, albeit with one eye, a normal Limbo with both is probably slower/weaker. 

Double Kamui Snipe at start, Staying Intangible until Raikiri kills Madara & Remaining in his PS are all valid counters to Limbo without Sensing though. 

That is, assuming he does one of these things, I personally think he does the first, because
1. It's Madara
2. He has Rinnegan (Assuming Kakashi has some manga knowledge- he knows how dangerous it is)
3. There is no clear drawbacks to simply warping him immediately


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## Deer Lord (Jul 23, 2015)

While Rinbo is the perfect counter to kamui it's been pretty much established that non-rikoudo characters are inferior to Rikudo powered ones.

Kakashi should still be safe in his PS. This version of madara probably can't bust it easily like JJ madara would.
Madara with four Rinbos is no cake walk but kakashi should win this.

Should madara have his own Six paths power he'd stomp kakashi's head in the ground tho.


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## Zef (Jul 24, 2015)

Ryuzaki said:


> *However, its possible that Kakashi would be able to sense them, in the same way Naruto was able to.*



Not a chance.


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