# Demi-fiend vs ?



## Onomatopoeia (May 18, 2009)

Using his Bonus Boss version from Digital Devil Saga, any reinforcements the fight gives him, and allowing for damage system differences what game verses could he beat?


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## Darklyre (May 18, 2009)

Allowing for damage system differences? Gaea Rage immediately oneshots any character that is immune to any status effects or elements, since it does 10x as much damage as the character's max HP. In addition, Re-Raise or other similar items/magic won't work, because he'll keep using Gaea Rage until the target stays dead.

Secondly, every time he gets a critical hit (which is like every other goddamn turn) he gets to go again. He has melee attacks which hit all characters, meaning more chances for critical hits. He is immune to every element except Earth and Almighty (Almighty != Holy, btw).

Status debuffs won't last long against his allies casting Dekunda. Status BUFFS won't last long when his allies spam Dekaja. In addition, he has allies that cast Taunt, Debilitate, and other status debuffs.

Any characters without defenses against instant kills will eventually fall against Girimehkala's Mamudoon, which is a group Dark-element instant kill. Without some kind of Re-Raise, dodge, or invulnerability move, a character will die against Pixie's Megidolaon, which does the same damage as Gaea Rage. Gaea Rage will also eventually come even if the characters aren't immune to status effects/elements, so there's no escaping that one.

Any of Demi-Fiend's allies that die will eventually get resurrected, and he never runs out of allies. As for the Demi-Fiend's HP, he has 18x the max player HP, and nigh-unlimited MP. In addition, he takes maybe 1/10 the amount of damage a normal enemy would against the same attacks.

Hell, not even P3's MC can take out the Demi-Fiend reliably. Armageddon, even with Spell Master, won't work. The first Armageddon will take the Demi-Fiend down to half health, but once Demi-Fiend's turn comes around either Satan or Lucifer will be on the MC and both of them have null elements which provokes a Gaea Rage. P3 and P4 also suffer from the problem of not having an Earth element, making Almighty the only method of attack.

The Demi-Fiend is known as one of the hardest optional bosses for a reason.


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## Lucifeller (May 18, 2009)

Considering that storywise, the Hitoshura/Demifiend was supposed to be able to kill God - as in THE God - you have to keep in mind that his plot power is nearly as massive as his gameplay power. The True Demon Ending does have him kicking Lucifer's ass and then moving on to lead Hell's army against Heaven...


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## Gig (May 18, 2009)

Dragon ball Z Budukai verse 

Random character + Viral Heart Disease + Vaccine + Senzu beam (a couple if necessary) for the win

The Viral Heart Disease will eat away at the HP of the Demon fiend and his allies eventually leaving them with 1 HP which will allow (insert random character) to one shot kill them with generic Ki blasts.

Meanwhile the Senzu beam will protect (insert random character) from instant kill as it will revive him/her as soon as his HP is depleted so if the demon-fiend used his 1 hit kill they would revive from it.


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## dragonflare (May 18, 2009)

Gig said:


> Dragon ball Z Budukai verse
> 
> Random character + Viral Heart Disease + Vaccine + Senzu beam (a couple if necessary) for the win
> 
> ...



The Pixie casts Mediarahan; entire army goes from 1 HP to full HP.

Hitoshura is immune to many ailments such as poison... there's no telling Heart Disease will work on him.


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## Azure Flame Fright (May 18, 2009)

So is this a game mechanics fight or what?


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## Gig (May 18, 2009)

dragonflare said:


> The Pixie casts Mediarahan; entire army goes from 1 HP to full HP.


There HP starts to drain again immediately though as the heart disease stays  active for the entire fight. 

To deal with magic/MP I add in Yakon to the combo which constantly drains energy/Ki (game mechanic equivalence energy/Ki = MP) so by the time they reach 1 HP they will have no MP either making casting of spells impossible 



dragonflare said:


> Hitoshura is immune to many ailments such as poison... there's no telling Heart Disease will work on him.


Heart Disease is not poison though its hard to classify it as its from a fighting game. I’d consider more of an effect like Regen on final fantasy

Edit: Also my level 20wiz/20clric from Never Winter Nights 

Time Stop + Implosion = Instant death 

Before you say Demi-fiend is immune to instant death attacks the Implosion spell bypasses immunity to death so even if you have 100% immunity it will still kill you instantly


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## Onomatopoeia (May 18, 2009)

> so by the time they reach 1 HP they will have no MP either making casting of spells impossible



The Pixie has Recarmdra, which, in exchange for a single hp fully heals the party's hp and mp in addition to reviving any KOed characters.


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## mystictrunks (May 18, 2009)

CvS2 roll cancel glitch.


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## dragonflare (May 18, 2009)

Gig said:


> There HP starts to drain again immediately though as the heart disease stays  active for the entire fight.
> 
> To deal with magic/MP I add in Yakon to the combo which constantly drains energy/Ki (game mechanic equivalence energy/Ki = MP) so by the time they reach 1 HP they will have no MP either making casting of spells impossible
> 
> Heart Disease is not poison though its hard to classify it as its from a fighting game. I?d consider more of an effect like Regen on final fantasy



In DDS, there is an ability called Null-Mute, which not only protects against Mute Spells, but prevents draining of MP as well.  The Hitoshura army has this ability.

Not sure if Heart Disease is classified as poison or not either, but it will have thousands of HP or burn through before the Pixie need to use healing.



Gig said:


> Edit: Also my level 20wiz/20clric from Never Winter Nights
> 
> Time Stop + Implosion = Instant death
> 
> Before you say Demi-fiend is immune to instant death attacks the Implosion spell bypasses immunity to death so even if you have 100% immunity it will still kill you instantly



 http://www.theonion.com/content/video/ambassador_stages_coup_at_un

Not familiar with this spell so I looked it up.  Hitoshura would make a saving throw with his high agility and luck stats.  How else do NWN bosses defend against this spell?


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## Gig (May 18, 2009)

dragonflare said:


> In DDS, there is an ability called Null-Mute, which not only protects against Mute Spells, but prevents draining of MP as well.  The Hitoshura army has this ability.


what skill class is it under (fire, void, ect) 



dragonflare said:


> Not sure if Heart Disease is classified as poison or not either, but it will have thousands of HP or burn through before the Pixie need to use healing.


It can go though tens of thousands of HP in DBZ very quickly not to mention if Inperfect Cell is the one using the combo he can spam life/energy drain 



dragonflare said:


> Katekyo Hitman Reborn x Yes Precure 5
> 
> Not familiar with this spell so I looked it up.  Hitoshura would make a saving throw with his high agility and luck stats.  How else do NWN bosses defend against this spell?


Fortitude has nothing to do with luck or agility and you can kill most bosses with Implosion I’ve killed both the 3rd to last and 2nd to last boss with it


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## Lucifeller (May 18, 2009)

Just for the record, EVERY CHARACTER in Hitoshura's army has Samarecarm, which kills the character using it and fully heals everyone else's HP and MP.

And they have this nasty habit of using it if the battle goes on too long.

Oh, by the way, the Vaccine grants IMMUNITY from the heart disease. If you wall ANYTHING (even effects the Hitoshura and his team can't use!) he goes in total overkill mode and lolpwns you.

Oh, and did the guy who posted the Demifiend's feats mention that the Demifiend's massive overkill attack is an ATTACK ALL move? Read: everyone gets KO'd at the same time, which as you well know, tends to override auto-heal moves..


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## dragonflare (May 18, 2009)

Gig said:


> what skill class is it under (fire, void, ect)
> 
> It can go though tens of thousands of HP in DBZ very quickly not to mention if Inperfect Cell is the one using the combo he can spam life/energy drain
> 
> Fortitude has nothing to do with luck or agility and you can kill most bosses with Implosion I’ve killed both the 3rd to last and 2nd to last boss with it



Null-Mute is not an elemental but is under a general class of status ailment skills.  Hitoshura is immune to all ailments in the game.

Fortitude (stand up to massive physical punishment, such as poison, paralysis and instant death magic), Hitoshura is immune to all these things already,  The only thing that can hurt him are Gun/Earth/Almighty skills.



Lucifeller said:


> Oh, and did the guy who posted the Demifiend's feats mention that the Demifiend's massive overkill attack is an ATTACK ALL move? Read: everyone gets KO'd at the same time, which as you well know, tends to override auto-heal moves..



Yes, someone mentioned Gaea Rage already.


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## Azure Flame Fright (May 18, 2009)

The protagonist from P3 could probably take him.

Minato's shrugged off instant kill attacks with no damage.


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## Gig (May 18, 2009)

dragonflare said:


> Fortitude (stand up to massive physical punishment, such as poison, paralysis and instant death magic), Hitoshura is immune to all these things already,  The only thing that can hurt him are Gun/Earth/Almighty skills.


You don?t understand Fortitude save doe's not = Immunity just because he is immune to something doe?s not mean he has high fortitude. 

For example you can be immune to every status effect in NWN but you can still die from implosion because it bypasses all immunities 

Hell I?ve killed cheaters online who have made gear which gives you immunity to everything but because there Fortitude is shit they die from Implosion it bypasses all immunities in game mechanics.


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## Onomatopoeia (May 18, 2009)

He doesn't use Gaea Rage if you've got Null Crit(which, despite the name, only reduces the chance of them not nulls them altogether) or Null Sleep.


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## Darklyre (May 19, 2009)

Azure Flame Kite said:


> The protagonist from P3 could probably take him.
> 
> Minato's shrugged off instant kill attacks with no damage.



He can't. Gaea Rage is an Almighty attack, which Minato has no protection against short of his Invulnerability move, which only lasts for one turn.

In addition, Minato does not have access to either gun attacks or Earth elemental skills, so his only option is Almighty. Rakunda spells get Dekunda'd, while Tarukaja gets Dekaja'd. His allies all die because their personas have Null/Drains, and Minato would die at the same time because Gaea Rage is attack-all.

Armageddon won't work, either. The Demi-Fiend always gets the first strike, so Minato can't have any Null/Drains on his starting persona. If he switches to Satan or Lucifer to pull off the Armageddon, it won't be enough to kill the Demi-Fiend, meaning he'll be stuck with either one of those personas on the next turn. Satan and Lucifer both have Nulls, provoking a Gaea Rage and killing Minato. The Demi-Fiend cannot be stunned, meaning Thunder Reign-spamming is out, even if Minato pulled a Lightning Break to remove Demi-Fiend's Null Lightning.

If you try to go with the DBZ Heart Disease/Vaccine route, Vaccine triggers Gaea Rage. Senzu beans won't help, because he SPAMS Gaea Rage until it kills you. It's not a one-time thing.

The Implosion spell is iffy. It's not that the Demi-Fiend is immune to instant death, but rather he's immune to Light and Dark, which contain instant death spells. He's immune to all types of holy and evil magic, as well as transmutation effects like Stone and Bat.


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## Pintsize (May 19, 2009)

This guy might be up to the challenge.

Every turn, this guy has four turns. Every turn, he life and mana drains every unit on the field, can oneshot a random character (through sheer damage output), can cast death on a character (which summons Death itself to take them in four turns--undispellable or cancelable), if the opponent has readied summons or other magical creatures against Dullahan for offensive use it can control those summons to attack its master, Dullahan has its own summon (Charon) that can attack every unit on the field, Dullahan can break status boosts and reverse class changes, and every turn Dullahan gains an enhanced immunity to a random element (fire, earth, water, or lightning {air}) which means that attacks of that element will not only do no damage but heal Dullahan as well, also Dullahan is immune to all instant kill attacks.


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## Onomatopoeia (May 19, 2009)

> and every turn Dullahan gains an enhanced immunity to a random element (fire, earth, water, or lightning {air}) which means that attacks of that element will not only do no damage but heal Dullahan as well



Unless he has insane hp and defense, this is what will end the fight for him, as it will provoke a stream of Gaea Rages.


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## Pintsize (May 19, 2009)

He does indeed have insane hp and defense. The strongest attack in the game (which you get from beating him), a summon that flies opponents into the sun and then hurls them back to earth, wouldn't even take out a quarter of his health.

Actually, I lied a little. His Forminia Sage attack still does more damage on a single target than anything in the game. 

Don't forget that his considerable hp and defense are also augmented by his hp and mana drain from every monster on the field every turn.


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## Azure Flame Fright (May 19, 2009)

Darklyre said:


> He can't. Gaea Rage is an Almighty attack, which Minato has no protection against short of his Invulnerability move, which only lasts for one turn.



Nyx's Death attack is Almighty since it damaged me when I had the Omnipotent Orb.

Minato tanked it.



> In addition, Minato does not have access to either gun attacks or Earth elemental skills, so his only option is Almighty. Rakunda spells get Dekunda'd, while Tarukaja gets Dekaja'd. His allies all die because their personas have Null/Drains, and Minato would die at the same time because Gaea Rage is attack-all.



Except Minato doesn't get one-shot by Almighty attacks, he'll retain 1 hp if he gets his World Persona.



> Armageddon won't work, either. The Demi-Fiend always gets the first strike, so Minato can't have any Null/Drains on his starting persona. If he switches to Satan or Lucifer to pull off the Armageddon, it won't be enough to kill the Demi-Fiend, meaning he'll be stuck with either one of those personas on the next turn. Satan and Lucifer both have Nulls, provoking a Gaea Rage and killing Minato. The Demi-Fiend cannot be stunned, meaning Thunder Reign-spamming is out, even if Minato pulled a Lightning Break to remove Demi-Fiend's Null Lightning.



How many Armageddon's need to hit to kill the Demi Fiend?


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## Lucifeller (May 19, 2009)

The Demi Fiend has at least 17000 HP, from a rough estimate I made. It takes at the least two Armageddons.

There's also a problem in that the Demifiend will auto-cast Gaea's Rage automatically if certain allies come in the battle. Namely, the Pixie and Parvati. Whenever they come in the fight, they will autocast Dormina without using a turn, then the Demifiend lets loose with a Gaea's Rage immediately afterwards. For the record, the Pixie is usually the first ally in the battle, while Parvati is the fourth in, meaning if Minato uses Armageddon after eating a Gaea's Rage, he will kill both of the Demifiend's allies, and Parvati will come in, which will be followed by Dormina and the Gaea's Rage pwnage. I really, really, REALLY don't see Minato surviving two of them, hell, even one is a stretch, since the Demifiend grossly outdamages Elizabeth... and Lizzy can oneshot Minato just fine.

Incidentally, the Dormina thing is what lets people survive him. There's a skill in  DDS called Avoid Sleep, which causes whoever has it and is sleeping to autododge any and all attacks thrown at them, including Gaea's Rage and other normally 100% accurate attacks. It's also why Cielo has an apparently bad weakness - Cielo being weak to STATUS is vitally important during the Demifiend battle, as he's the one most likely to not get raped by the Dormina/Gaea's Rage combo.


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## ryne11 (May 19, 2009)

Fenix said:


>



At least a stalemate


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## Gig (May 19, 2009)

Lucifeller said:


> The Demi Fiend has at least 17000 HP, from a rough estimate I made. It takes at the least two Armageddons.



17000 HP is that all? 

Revya overkills with Demon Blast 
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFCxR4xOZrw&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]


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## Onomatopoeia (May 19, 2009)

I believe he actually has 18k not that it particularly matters but...


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## Lucifeller (May 19, 2009)

Nippon Ichi games have stupidly high damage outputs and equally stupidly high HP totals.

Now, if you can oneshot Baal with his equipment still on... THEN I'm willing to concede that. Anything else fails to be relevant due to the ridiculously high numbers N1 likes to throw around. Seriously, in La Pucelle, Culotte can do 5000 damage with an apple. AN APPLE. Or even a LOLLIPOP. You aren't convincing me that should be translated straight in DDS terms, especially since the game outright states Culotte is a wimp.


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## Gig (May 19, 2009)

Lucifeller said:


> Nippon Ichi games have stupidly high damage outputs and equally stupidly high HP totals.


The ridicules HP and damage Totals only start coming about once there level’s start reaching into the thousands and even then you only reach you're true potential once you start using reincarnation to max out your base stats 



Lucifeller said:


> Now, if you can oneshot Baal with his equipment still on... THEN I'm willing to concede that. Anything else fails to be relevant due to the ridiculously high numbers N1 likes to throw around. Seriously, in La Pucelle, Culotte can do 5000 damage with an apple.
> 
> AN APPLE. Or even a LOLLIPOP. You aren't convincing me that should be translated straight in DDS terms, especially since the game outright states Culotte is a wimp.


A wimp at the start even the weakest character can become a God after 200+ hours in the Dark world 

Also Culotte has low stats growths on every stat but Intelligence so he’s weaker than most other characters of equal level anyway 

Edit: Darklyre Implosion is none elemental anyway so Demi-fiends immunity to Dark and light is useless against it


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## Onomatopoeia (May 19, 2009)

The Demi-fiend is only vulnerable to Almighty(holy), gun and earth.


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## Pringer Lagann (May 19, 2009)

Lucifeller said:


> Nippon Ichi games have stupidly high damage outputs and equally stupidly high HP totals.
> 
> Now, if you can oneshot Baal with his equipment still on... THEN I'm willing to concede that.



It can be done in any game that's not Disgaea 1


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## Azure Flame Fright (May 19, 2009)

Lucifeller said:


> The Demi Fiend has at least 17000 HP, from a rough estimate I made. It takes at the least two Armageddons.



Chakra Ring and he can do that.



> There's also a problem in that the Demifiend will auto-cast Gaea's Rage automatically if certain allies come in the battle. Namely, the Pixie and Parvati. Whenever they come in the fight, they will autocast Dormina without using a turn, then the Demifiend lets loose with a Gaea's Rage immediately afterwards. For the record, the Pixie is usually the first ally in the battle, while Parvati is the fourth in, meaning if Minato uses Armageddon after eating a Gaea's Rage, he will kill both of the Demifiend's allies, and Parvati will come in, which will be followed by Dormina and the Gaea's Rage pwnage. I really, really, REALLY don't see Minato surviving two of them, hell, even one is a stretch, since the Demifiend grossly outdamages Elizabeth... and Lizzy can oneshot Minato just fine.



I'm pretty sure Minato with his World Persona survived three instant death attacks from Nyx before stopping her.

So Minato can withstand the Gaea's Rage if he has his World Persona, otherwise, he is really outmatched.

Haseo from .Hack// can do this pretty well since each hit from him will hit Demi Fiend for 9999 damage even generic slashes.


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## Darklyre (May 19, 2009)

Azure Flame Kite said:


> Chakra Ring and he can do that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Gaea Rage isn't instant death. It's death from ridiculously high damage. We're talking 8k+ here, when your max HP is 999 and your Vitality is at 99. Sure, you could survive it with an Endure or Enduring Soul. But it wouldn't matter, because the Demi-Fiend gets two attacks on the first turn, and he ALWAYS gets the first turn. Homunculi only work against instant kills, which Gaea Rage doesn't count as. Endure and Enduring Soul can only trigger once per battle, meaning their protection will disappear after the first Gaea Rage, only to have Minato die to the second.

Also, the Demi-Fiend has some ridiculous stats. When I Debilitated Huang Long and smacked him with a Power Charged Ragnarok, I was doing something like 3k+ damage. The same stats, same abilities, and same move against the Demi-Fiend would barely do 200. Just so you know, Huang Long is the second-hardest boss in DDS1.

Armageddon won't work simply because it'll require two turns to kill the Demi-Fiend, and he can get two Gaea Rages in before the second one ever lands.


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## Azure Flame Fright (May 19, 2009)

Eh, then I stand by my statement that Haseo can defeat the Demi-fiend easily, since Gaea Rage isn't an instant death move, it'll only do like 1 damage to Haseo, and he can hit up to thirteen 9999 to the Demi Fiend with a single move.


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## Darklyre (May 19, 2009)

Azure Flame Kite said:


> Eh, then I stand by my statement that Haseo can defeat the Demi-fiend easily, since Gaea Rage isn't an instant death move, it'll only do like 1 damage to Haseo, and he can hit up to thirteen 9999 to the Demi Fiend with a single move.



The Demi-Fiend is immune to physical attacks. 

Even if Haseo can stop the Gaea Rage, Girimehkala spams Mamudoon pretty much every single round, and occasionally twice if the Demi-Fiend or the other demon criticals.


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## Azure Flame Fright (May 19, 2009)

Darklyre said:


> The Demi-Fiend is immune to physical attacks.



Haseo's guns should count as Almighty damage since they are outside game parameters 



> Even if Haseo can stop the Gaea Rage, Girimehkala spams Mamudoon pretty much every single round, and occasionally twice if the Demi-Fiend or the other demon criticals.



Skeith is immune to Dark attacks


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## dragonflare (May 19, 2009)

Gig said:


> You don’t understand Fortitude save doe's not = Immunity just because he is immune to something doe’s not mean he has high fortitude.
> 
> For example you can be immune to every status effect in NWN but you can still die from implosion because it bypasses all immunities
> 
> Hell I’ve killed cheaters online who have made gear which gives you immunity to everything but because there Fortitude is shit they die from Implosion it bypasses all immunities in game mechanics.



In DDS there is no Fortitude stat so that's why I mentioned Agility and Luck. Maybe Vitality, but that just physical defense and raises your HP.

I don't think NWN has defense against Almighty-class attacks, so it will be hard for the wizard to defend as well.




Azure Flame Kite said:


> Haseo's guns should count as Almighty damage since they are outside game parameters



Gun damage works on Demi-Fiend


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