# Current Naruto vs 8th Gate Gai ( Speed )



## JuicyG (Aug 6, 2014)

Naruto blitzed Kaguya. Does this put him on par with Gai 8th Gate ?


----------



## Rocky (Aug 6, 2014)

Naruto's flicker is probably superior to everything bar Night Gai.


----------



## StickaStick (Aug 6, 2014)

What Rocky said.

Bending S/T is still the best raw speed feat the manga has seen so in that sense he still tops Naruto.


----------



## iJutsu (Aug 6, 2014)

Night Gai > Current Naruto >= Elephant Gai.


----------



## Kaiser (Aug 6, 2014)

Madara could see night Gai and had a thought process even. Naruto could blitz Kaguya before she could even react from a greater distance and Kaguya is the same one who could easily react to Sasuke's teleportation that Madara couldn't. Naruto is faster


----------



## Nikushimi (Aug 6, 2014)

Call me when Naruto literally runs circles around a Juubi Jinchuuriki.


----------



## JuicyG (Aug 6, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> Call me when Naruto literally runs circles around a Juubi Jinchuuriki.





Whats your # ?

He instantaneously blitzed the most powerful person in the series


----------



## blackguyinpinksuit (Aug 6, 2014)

Going so fast the air and space distorts because of it is still the best movement speed feat in the manga so nah. Naruto is right behind guy in terms of speed though.


----------



## Kyu (Aug 6, 2014)

Gai _Midnight Dragon_ > Naruto's _Shunshin_

Gai distorting space & Naruto blitzing the most powerful entity in the verse takes a spray shit on everyone else.


----------



## Lurko (Aug 7, 2014)

Night Guy > Naruto> normal 8 gate Guy.


----------



## DaVizWiz (Aug 7, 2014)

The mere fact Judara noticed Gai distorted space means it actually isn't as fast as Naruto, he literally thought faster than Gai moved [1]. 

Naruto surpassed Gai's movement the moment he shunshin'd away from an instantaneous dimension jump blindside by Kaguya, citing the recent feat of casually appearing in front of her and slicing her arm off is irrelevant, moving away from her while she dimension jumped meant he was already faster than her fastest attack speed, because he could have chose to simply turn around then smack her back into her dimension hole instead of moving several meters away from her. He panicked in that instance, though that was the moment he became faster than anyone in the verse, which is why Kaguya noted his incredible speed. 

Distorting space means absolutely nothing to moving away from a dimension jump by Kaguya, she literally needs to move less than a meter to touch him when she dimension jumps, she opens a warphole right next to her and bends in to grab him. The warphole is created just as fast as summoning her dimensions to the battlefield, which, to me, seemed to be instantaneous [1] [2]. So, in essence, Naruto reacted to an instant dimension warphole creation and moved several meters faster than Kaguya could rotate her arm 90 degrees [1] [2]. 

There is no need to ask who is faster. Naruto would blitz 8th Gated Gai at the same distance and he reacts to variants 8th Gated Gai couldn't hope to avoid. 

Let's define what faster is? It's not just linear moving speed- it's the ability to react and counter attacks. Gai would not counter Kaguya's arm rotation unless he was already kicking forward in Night Gai away from her- and even then- a _substantially_ slower and weaker Madara perceived it, and deduced it's special ability (space distortion) before Gai hit him.

This isn't a debate about who is faster, because Naruto is clearly faster, it's a debate about whether or not Naruto is faster than the technique Night Gai moves Might Gai's body in the final close-range kick sequence, because that's the window when Judara did not think, say or do anything, in the creation sequence, and the sequence where Gai moved toward him for the final kick- Madara perceived his movement and deduced it's ability to distort space.

Might Gai is not faster than Naruto, the taijutsu technique Night Gai in it's final sequence isn't either, in my opinion at least.


----------



## iJutsu (Aug 7, 2014)

DaVizWiz said:


> Naruto surpassed Gai's movement the moment he shunshin'd away from an instantaneous dimension jump blindside by Kaguya



Minato tried that on Madara, he lost an arm and Kakashi got rasengan'd.

Sasuke tried that on Kaguya, she ported away and made him look like a fool.

Teleportation is useless against top tiers. Same applies to Kaguya using it on Naruto.

Madara was already anticipating Gai's attack and knew he was much faster to begin with. Yet he still couldn't do a proper defense or counter. When Naruto cut off Kaguya's arm, she wasn't exactly expecting anything. When he rasengan'd her, she was busy dodging Sasuke.


----------



## Psp123789 (Aug 7, 2014)

Night Guy was able to distort s/t so guy should still be faster if you consider that attack. It's Night Guy > Naruto > Regular 8th gate movement speed


----------



## Narutossss (Aug 7, 2014)

naruto is clearly faster, kaguya wouldn't even see naruto, while madara could see gai clearly naruto>>night gai


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 7, 2014)

Gai runs circles around Naruto and kicks his head off.


----------



## Sauce (Aug 7, 2014)

Naruto endures Gai's release and Gai dies.


----------



## DaVizWiz (Aug 7, 2014)

> Minato tried that on Madara, he lost an arm and Kakashi got rasengan'd.


Minato threw a kunai to the area he was teleporting to, aside from that, he ported directly in front of him and needed to lunge his left arm in order to hit Madara, not even close to what Kaguya attempted on Naruto. 

She instantly created a dimension hole that had the capacity to transmit her body anywhere in existence (as far as we know- several dimensions..) and simply rotated her arm 90 degrees directly behind Naruto, and he moved several meters away before her arm extended through space. 

In other words, there was no time to discern she was going to teleport (her S/T is conceivably instantaneous), there was no indication of where she would teleport if Naruto knew she was going to (her transport warpholes can open anywhere in several different dimensions- she does not mark her position of teleportation by throwing weapons in plain sight), and she literally only rotated her arm 90 degrees for her attack- Kaguya's arm was easily the fastest in the verse at the time. 



> Sasuke tried that on Kaguya, she ported away and made him look like a fool.


So what you're saying is Kaguya's S/T and reaction speed > Sasuke

How does that make Naruto's feat less impressive? That simply means Naruto > Kaguya > Sasuke 



> Teleportation is useless against top tiers. Same applies to Kaguya using it on Naruto.


Not even close to being true. Sasuke's teleportation technique is the reason he is still alive after fighting both Judara and Kaguya up to this point. Without it, he would have certainly fallen. 



> Madara was already anticipating Gai's attack and knew he was much faster to begin with. Yet he still couldn't do a proper defense or counter. When Naruto cut off Kaguya's arm, she wasn't exactly expecting anything. When he rasengan'd her, she was busy dodging Sasuke.


That's not relevant, during his fastest attacking variant Madara clearly displayed consciousness of his speed and deduced the fact it distorted space before he was touched by Might Gai.

In my observation that is clearly inferior to Naruto blitzing and slashing Kaguya's arm off with his chakra claw from a displaced distance in plain view, without her realizing it. 

And yes- Kaguya already knew Naruto was Ashura's reincarnation, that Hagoromo gave him part of his power, and that he previously had the speed to avoid her fastest attacking variant (Dimension jumping). So no, Madara knowing that Gai was a formidable opponent means absolutely nothing, as Kaguya knew Naruto was a _substantially_ more dangerous opponent than Gai could ever be- and she was blitzed without thinking a single word.


----------



## Bkprince33 (Aug 7, 2014)

I wouldn't count out sasuke's teleportation as kaguya needed to use her own st to counter it.

Anyway what rocky said naruto is right behind gai in movement speed


----------



## Amol (Aug 7, 2014)

Kaguya countered Sasuke's S/T jutsu which is supposed to be instant teleportation. 
I dunno I put Naruto and Night Gai on same level for now .


----------



## egressmadara (Aug 7, 2014)

The Naruto that speedblitzed Kaguya would be significantly faster than 8 gates Guy, yes.


----------



## Hachibi (Aug 7, 2014)

Night Gai > Rikudo Naruto > 8th Gate Gai


----------



## Trojan Invasion (Aug 8, 2014)

night Gai ( or night Moth ) was bending space due to its speed, it's the best speed feat so far .
Madara could see Gai but what makes you think that Kaguya couldn't see Naruto as well ? Madara wasn't able to react to Night Gai even though he saw him , so it could be the same for Kaguya's case so that means we can't scale speed from there 
for now bending space > any speed feat done by Naruto .


----------



## Jad (Aug 8, 2014)

Night Gai > Bullshit moment Naruto blitzed Kaguya but surprise surprise won't happen again for plot reasons ~ Gai's regular movement > Naruto regular movement

Was Kaguya powerful before Jinchuuriki / Tree powerup? She may be more powerful via techniques but her speed stat may be lower than Madara's when comparing base version. This manga is weird.


----------



## Veracity (Aug 8, 2014)

Portrayal wise Night Moth and Current Naruto are about equal in speed.

By feats Naruto is faster. Simple as that. There is no possible way anyone could argue against it.

Gai was able to blitz Pre absorption Madara: _full power_ 
And Sasuke was able to blitz a more powerful version of Madara in the same manner from a farther distance: _full power_

Kaguya is better then Madara in basically everyway. Her reactions are better clearly,
Evident by the fact that she could react perfectly to Sasuke at a closer distance: _full power_
Now Naruto was able to not only blitz Kaguya at a farther distance , but completely tear her arm out of socket without her being able to perceive his movement: _full power_ 
Current Naruto>> Anyone in speed.


----------



## Sferr (Aug 9, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> Portrayal wise Night Moth and Current Naruto are about equal in speed.
> 
> By feats Naruto is faster. Simple as that. There is no possible way anyone could argue against it.
> 
> ...



By feats Gai was running on air. That alone puts him above current Naruto by feats, not to mention bending space. 

And your logic does not work. The fact that Gai could blitz Madara does not mean he could not have blitzed Kaguya.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 9, 2014)

Jad said:


> Night Gai > Bullshit moment Naruto blitzed Kaguya but surprise surprise won't happen again for plot reasons ~ Gai's regular movement > Naruto regular movement
> 
> Was Kaguya powerful before Jinchuuriki / Tree powerup? She may be more powerful via techniques but her speed stat may be lower than Madara's when comparing base version. This manga is weird.



This guy gets it.

Naruto used the famous "plot blitz." If he was fast enough to consistently blitz Kaguya, Like Gai was doing to Madara, then he'd keep taking limbs one by one till there was nothing left.


----------



## Veracity (Aug 9, 2014)

Sferr said:


> By feats Gai was running on air. That alone puts him above current Naruto by feats, not to mention bending space.
> 
> And your logic does not work. The fact that Gai could blitz Madara does not mean he could not have blitzed Kaguya.



Running on air means fucking what ? It's an exaggerated feat . Same with all of Gais taijustu feats including "bending space." Which doesn't even make sense . 6th gated Gai punches so fast that his friction creates concentrated fire balls and heat waves, yet a faster punch in the 7th gate only creates an air blast some how not on fire.... Or a red aura Gai doesn't even create fire from some of his punches? Lee moves the ground apart by moving in the gates yet when Juubito moves he doesn't even crack the ground. Gai taijustu does exaggerated things. Simple as that.

Kaguyas reactions > 2 eyed Rinnegan juubidara > Pre Tree absorption Juubidara . This is evident through concrete feats.

•Madara was able to completely perceive Night Moth , and would probably be able to guard against it if it wasn't for its unique ability of basically pulling Madara into the attack.
• A stronger Madara wasn't even able to perceive Sasukes ST Justu at A FARTHER distance in contrast to night Gai. 
• Kaguya could casually react to Sasukes ST Justu at the CLOSEST range between the instances I mentioned.
• Naruto was able to not only blitz Kaguya at the FARTHEST DISTANCE between the instances I mentioned. But was also able to grab and rip her arm out of socket before she could even perceive the fact that he even moved.

Simple as that.


----------



## Invictus-Kun (Aug 9, 2014)

Spees test?

Naruto had hood reflexes.

But Gai is faster.

Naruto will just be faster if he gets FTG.


----------



## iJutsu (Aug 9, 2014)

It's funny that people say Madara is a better fighter than Kaguya, but automatically discredit his reaction speeds since they don't like Gai.


----------



## trance (Aug 9, 2014)

Only with his full speed "Shunshin" is Naruto able to compete with or surpass Gai in speed.


----------



## JuicyG (Aug 9, 2014)

People need to stop talking about space bending like it automatically means Gai is faster.

Instant teleportation should be the fastest movement in the series (like sasukes). Because what does instant mean ? There is not even the slightest margin of time between now, and instant. But still sasuke was blocked by Kaguya some how.

Night Gai may be extremely fast, but its not faster than instant teleportation. But then again we seen Naruto blitz Kaguya where a instant teleportaion didnt work.

Therefore, going by panel facts, feats:

Naruto>Sasuke (teleportation)>Night Gai

Kaguya>Any version of Madara ---- In all aspects


----------



## Sferr (Aug 9, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> Running on air means fucking what ? It's an exaggerated feat . Same with all of Gais taijustu feats including "bending space." Which doesn't even make sense . 6th gated Gai punches so fast that his friction creates concentrated fire balls and heat waves, yet a faster punch in the 7th gate only creates an air blast some how not on fire.... Or a red aura Gai doesn't even create fire from some of his punches? Lee moves the ground apart by moving in the gates yet when Juubito moves he doesn't even crack the ground. Gai taijustu does exaggerated things. Simple as that.



So, you ignore the feat because you don't like it. Nice.



Likes boss said:


> Kaguyas reactions > 2 eyed Rinnegan juubidara > Pre Tree absorption Juubidara . This is evident through concrete feats.


So what? Gai was >>>>>> Madara. Kaguya can still be >>> than Madara but <<< than Gai.


Likes boss said:


> ?Madara was able to completely perceive Night Moth , and would probably be able to guard against it if it wasn't for its unique ability of basically pulling Madara into the attack.


Would probably? He was unable to guard himself from the Elephant many times and you are saying that he could have protected himself from Night Guy? 


Likes boss said:


> ? A stronger Madara wasn't even able to perceive Sasukes ST Justu at A FARTHER distance in contrast to night Gai.
> ? Kaguya could casually react to Sasukes ST Justu at the CLOSEST range between the instances I mentioned.
> ? Naruto was able to not only blitz Kaguya at the FARTHEST DISTANCE between the instances I mentioned. But was also able to grab and rip her arm out of socket before she could even perceive the fact that he even moved.
> 
> Simple as that.



Well, obviously Madara could not perceive Sasuke. Sasuke was _teleporting_, there was nothing to perceive for Madara. And because of this false comparison your other comparison's don't hold water.


----------



## Veracity (Aug 9, 2014)

Sferr said:


> So, you ignore the feat because you don't like it. Nice.
> 
> 
> So what? Gai was >>>>>> Madara. Kaguya can still be >>> than Madara but <<< than Gai.
> ...



I'm not ignoring anything lol. I'm just giving you logical reasons as to why Gais exaggerated feats don't mean he's the fastest at what he does. You're basically saying that if you don't either bend space, create shapable air currents, or fire off heat waves that you aren't as fast as Gai. Which is terrible false. I can giant guarantee that Tobirama and KCM Minato have faster hand speed then Kisame\Itachi arc 6th gated Gai yet they don't fire of heat waves just by moving their arms. BM Naruto was able to move 4 BjuiiDama from the force of his shunshin yet Juubito was able to shunshin in between the Hokage with the dust barely moving. Exaggerated feats are exaggerated feats. Don't take them to seriously.

Re read those Red Aura vs Madara chapters. If you actually pay attention you'll moored that Gai was only able to blitz Madara twice with night Gai and a single EE. All his other made EE's were result of Madara being stunned from the first one.

?Gai was > Pre absorption Madara and probably would have been barely faster then Tree absorbed Madara. 

? Sasuke was > Absorbed Madara, and Kaguya was >> Sasuke.

? Naruto was >> Kaguya. Therefore there literallly is no way you could assume Gai > Naruto.

You also don't seem not to consider distance when you debate. Every single time Gai blitzed Madara(twice) he was at a pretty close distance as opposed to Sasuke blitzing a Madara with superior reactions at a farther distance then Gai.

Now Sasuke was at a really close distance when he tried to blitz Kaguya yet see dodged it no problem yet was blitzed by Naruto at an even farther distance. We can assume that Sasuke and Gai are about equal in considering they could both blitz Madara in the same manner albeit the fact Sasukes blitzed a more powerful Madara at a farther distance. So Naruto > Sasuke = Gai.

He was caught off guard by EE once which lead to him being hit by the entire combination. And he was caught off guard because Gai escaped his AoE.

 Are you serious ? Sasuke doesn't teleport his sword into Madara. He teleports to the area around his opponent then has to rely on his own hand|movement speed. That's the reason Kaguya was able to react to him. Hell that's the reason Madara was able to react to Minato's FTG attack in general.


----------



## Lord Aizen (Aug 9, 2014)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> Going so fast the air and space distorts because of it is still the best movement speed feat in the manga so nah. Naruto is right behind guy in terms of speed though.



Exactly this.


----------



## Sferr (Aug 10, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> I'm not ignoring anything lol. I'm just giving you logical reasons as to why Gais exaggerated feats don't mean he's the fastest at what he does. You're basically saying that if you don't either bend space, create shapable air currents, or fire off heat waves that you aren't as fast as Gai. Which is terrible false. I can giant guarantee that Tobirama and KCM Minato have faster hand speed then Kisame\Itachi arc 6th gated Gai yet they don't fire of heat waves just by moving their arms. BM Naruto was able to move 4 BjuiiDama from the force of his shunshin yet Juubito was able to shunshin in between the Hokage with the dust barely moving. Exaggerated feats are exaggerated feats. Don't take them to seriously.



But what are you doing then if not ignoring? These exaggerated feats are in the manga and thanks to them Gai was destroying Madara. He _was_ running on air and _was_ bending space. But you choose to ignore it. What Tobirama and Minato has to do with anything when they are teleporting and not actually moving? And comparing Naruto and Obito is strange, Naruto specifically moved in a way so that he could redirect those bijuudama, it was not an aftereffect of his speed.



Likes boss said:


> Re read those Red Aura vs Madara chapters. If you actually pay attention you'll moored that Gai was only able to blitz Madara twice with night Gai and a single EE. All his other made EE's were result of Madara being stunned from the first one.


I think you should reread that fight. Gai used Night Gai once, and hit Madara with EE at least 5 times. With first he send him into earth, after that hit him with 4 at the same time and immobilized him.


Likes boss said:


> ?Gai was > Pre absorption Madara and probably would have been barely faster then Tree absorbed Madara.
> 
> ? Sasuke was > Absorbed Madara, and Kaguya was >> Sasuke.
> 
> ? Naruto was >> Kaguya. Therefore there literallly is no way you could assume Gai > Naruto.


You claim this only on the assumption that Gai "probably would have been barely faster then Tree absorbed Madara." that you base on nothing but your wishful thinking. Seriously, Gai was blitzing and running circles around Madara with zero difficulty, so why he should be barely faster than tree absorbed Madara?



Likes boss said:


> You also don't seem not to consider distance when you debate. Every single time Gai blitzed Madara(twice) he was at a pretty close distance as opposed to Sasuke blitzing a Madara with superior reactions at a farther distance then Gai.


Come on, Sasuke was _teleporting_, meaning even though he may have been further from Madara, he crossed _less_ distance. Gai was running from point A to point B, Sasuke just appeared at point B and hit Madara. You can't compare Gai and Sasuke, Sasuke was not even moving when he crossed that distance.



Likes boss said:


> Now Sasuke was at a really close distance when he tried to blitz Kaguya yet see dodged it no problem yet was blitzed by Naruto at an even farther distance. We can assume that Sasuke and Gai are about equal in considering they could both blitz Madara in the same manner albeit the fact Sasukes blitzed a more powerful Madara at a farther distance. So Naruto > Sasuke = Gai.


You can't assume anything because you just can't compare Sasuke and Gai. 



Likes boss said:


> He was caught off guard by EE once which lead to him being hit by the entire combination. And he was caught off guard because Gai escaped his AoE.


No, he was hit by the entire combination because he was blitzed.



Likes boss said:


> Are you serious ? Sasuke doesn't teleport his sword into Madara. He teleports to the area around his opponent then has to rely on his own hand|movement speed. That's the reason Kaguya was able to react to him. Hell that's the reason Madara was able to react to Minato's FTG attack in general.


So how can you compare Gai and Sasuke then? Gai doesn't teleport anywhere, he runs the whole distance.


----------



## SSMG (Aug 10, 2014)

So like boos what feats are acceptable? what feats are extraggrated? its clear you dont like guy and thats why his feats are extraggerated yet current narutos feats are acceptable. this is clear biased and whenever you dont agree or like something you can claim ots extraggerated. this is a cop out defenze.

anyway night guy is fastest than narutos ploy blitz then EE


----------



## JuicyG (Aug 10, 2014)

*I guess nobody paid attention to my points*

"_ People need to stop talking about space bending like it automatically means Gai is faster.

Instant teleportation should be the fastest movement in the series (like sasukes). Because what does instant mean ? There is not even the slightest margin of time between now, and instant. But still sasuke was blocked by Kaguya some how.

Night Gai may be extremely fast, but its not faster than instant teleportation. But then again we seen Naruto blitz Kaguya where a instant teleportaion didnt work.

Therefore, going by panel facts, feats:

Naruto>Sasuke (teleportation)>Night Gai

Kaguya>Any version of Madara ---- In all aspects_ "


----------



## SSMG (Aug 10, 2014)

Umm juicyg seventh gate guy was faster than an instant teleportation technique. madara has reacted to the panel of hiriashin user appearing on screen at least twice on the very panel tjey appeared(tobiramas first usage of it against alive madara and minatos sm usage of it against juubi jin madara.) He reacted to seventh gate guys movements but not on the very same panel he began to move.

and then eighth gate guy ran circles around this same person who could react to hiriashin.


----------



## JuicyG (Aug 10, 2014)

SSMG said:


> Umm juicyg seventh gate guy was faster than an instant teleportation technique. madara has reacted to the panel of hiriashin user appearing on screen at least twice on the very panel tjey appeared(tobiramas first usage of it against alive madara and minatos sm usage of it against juubi jin madara.) He reacted to seventh gate guys movements but not on the very same panel he began to move.
> 
> and then eighth gate guy ran circles around this same person who could react to hiriashin.




Explain how Gai is faster than* "Instant"* ?


----------



## SSMG (Aug 10, 2014)

The same way the flash is? its a fictional piece.


----------



## JuicyG (Aug 10, 2014)

SSMG said:


> The same way the flash is? its a fictional piece.




So there is no "instant" teleportation in your opinion ?


----------



## SSMG (Aug 10, 2014)

It seems you missed what i said. 


The flash had a race with a  teleporter who uses an instanteous teleportation technique(all this was stated in the page it happened).. they had a get ready set go count so the teleporter was ready and set for the race... and the flash beat him in a race.

he did so because it was fiction.

same reason for guy..he can move faster than instant s/t because hes a fictional character.


----------



## Hachibi (Aug 10, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> So there is no "instant" teleportation in your opinion ?



You CAN be faster than instant, but to have such speed you should be capable to go though time with pure speed (kinda like Flash)


----------



## JuicyG (Aug 10, 2014)

Hachibi94 said:


> You CAN be faster than instant, but to have such speed you should be capable to go though time with pure speed (kinda like Flash)




If you move faster than instant, you WILL go back in time which would contradict much of whats going on. Which is why I can't except that notion. Events still followed one after another when Gai was in 8th gate mode...if he was moving faster than instant nothing around him would have been moving forward in time


----------



## SSMG (Aug 10, 2014)

Except that didnt happen when the flash went faster than instant so theres no reason to assume thas what is going to have to happen in this verse.


----------



## JuicyG (Aug 10, 2014)

SSMG said:


> Except that didnt happen when the flash went faster than instant so theres no reason to assume thas what is going to have to happen in this verse.




Its a matter physics thats all.....

And besides that...if you can move faster than instant I will assume Naruto can as well do to the Kaguya blitz where sasuke's instant was evaded


----------



## Hachibi (Aug 10, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> *I guess nobody paid attention to my points*
> 
> "_ People need to stop talking about space bending like it automatically means Gai is faster.
> 
> ...



And yet, you basically said that Naruto is faster than instant, which mean he will go back in time , yet it didn't happen, so..


----------



## JuicyG (Aug 10, 2014)

Hachibi94 said:


> And yet, you basically said that Naruto is faster than instant, which mean he will go back in time , yet it didn't happen, so..





Thats why im stating to believe this "instant" shit is just a word in this verse and carries little meaning.

Nothing should be faster than instant. But I guess we see than Gai and Naruto are....contradictions here


----------



## Hachibi (Aug 10, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Thats why im stating to believe this "instant" shit is just a word in this verse and carries little meaning.
> 
> Nothing should be faster than instant. But I guess we see than Gai and Naruto are....contradictions here



> Using Real Life Physic in a Fantasy Manga

Anyways, I already said my opinion


----------



## JuicyG (Aug 10, 2014)

Hachibi94 said:


> > Using Real Life Physic in a Fantasy Manga
> 
> Anyways, I already said my opinion





Its hard to havea logical debate when you dont even have physics to go by...


----------



## SSMG (Aug 10, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Its a matter physics thats all.....
> 
> And besides that...if you can move faster than instant I will assume Naruto can as well do to the Kaguya blitz where sasuke's instant was evaded



Oh i know all about the physics aspect of it.. but it being fictional is an easier explanation.XD

And yeah it could see that as well... but they were in an increased gravity dimension im not sure how that affects sasuke s/t justu or not. well she actually reacted to it a few times now hasnt she? 

but yeah i can safetly agree with ya there.. naruto is faster than s/t jutsus as well.


----------



## SSMG (Aug 10, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Thats why im stating to believe this "instant" shit is just a word in this verse and carries little meaning.
> 
> Nothing should be faster than instant. But I guess we see than Gai and Naruto are....contradictions here



Well until a word is explained in their verse.. something like chakra and that it is different from its irl counterpart do we throw this out there. until they make it known that it means something different from our usage of the word we have to go with our usage of it.


----------



## Veracity (Aug 10, 2014)

Sferr said:


> But what are you doing then if not ignoring? These exaggerated feats are in the manga and thanks to them Gai was destroying Madara. He _was_ running on air and _was_ bending space. But you choose to ignore it. What Tobirama and Minato has to do with anything when they are teleporting and not actually moving? And comparing Naruto and Obito is strange, Naruto specifically moved in a way so that he could redirect those bijuudama, it was not an aftereffect of his speed.
> 
> 
> I think you should reread that fight. Gai used Night Gai once, and hit Madara with EE at least 5 times. With first he send him into earth, after that hit him with 4 at the same time and immobilized him.
> ...



You serious right now  ? I'm clearly not ignoring them in any way. Gai is indeed fast, but just because he creates fire from his punches and "bends space ", doesn't mean anybody that doesn't do such is slower then him in any sense, you have literally said that because Gai has bended space that Naruto cannot possibly be as fast as him. That is terribly false considering I have given you multiple examples of people faster then Gai not creating ridiculous heat and air pressure and you have ignorantly skimmed over them.

Can you please actually freaking comprehend my post ? I clearly said Tobirama and Minato have faster handspeed then Gai yet they don't create heat waves surrounding their arms when they move. This has NOTHING TO DO WITH FTG. Tobirama has feats of tagging Juubito 5 times during a shunshin. A feat that shits on anything even 7th gate Gai can do with his fists, yet Tobirama doesn't create a giant fucking tiger when he moved his hands or fireballs. Gais exaggerated feats are clearly down by unique technique. And yes this includes jumping off air and bending space.

It was not the way he moved at all lol. What's the way he moved ? Narutos shunshin is the same everytime he uses it lol, yet it doesn't always have the force to move BD. That logic is terrible considering Gai actually moves in unique ways unlike Naruto, and that's the reason he distorts space. It clearly just says Naruto was moving fast enough to do so :Biju Hachimaki

Twice as in once with Night Gai and once with EE lol.

Lol Gai being able to land 5 EE's was a result of his first EE immobilizing Madara movements:Biju Hachimaki

Madara blocked his first EE: Biju Hachimaki just couldn't block the force.

Hold up skurrrrt, Gai running circles around Madara literally amounts to nothing at all. Madara was flying in one place not moving at all. All that matters is that Madara could react to him. So all this fruitless running in circles resulted in Madara reacting to him perfectly fine: Biju Hachimaki

You also seem to not understand that Gai has only blitzed Madara at ridiculously close distances. Even at close distances Madara has been able to react to Gai: Biju Hachimaki

So tree absorbed Madara should naturally be able to react to regular Gai without getting blitzed. He may be blitzed by night Gai however.  But let us pay attention to the distance in which Gai blitzes Madara with night moth. He was this far apart : Biju Hachimaki

And 2 eyed Madara was at a distance father then this when he was blitzed: Biju Hachimaki

Sasuke is clearly a much father distance and cleanly blitzed a more powerful version of Madara. So even with this ridiculous amount of evidence that assumes that Sasuke is > To Gai I'll
Still give you the benefit of the doubt and assume Gai and Sasuke are equal.

I guess distance doesn't actually matter at this specific point( it does later in my post) so the only thing that matters here is whether they blitzed the opponent or not. Gai was able to blitz regular juubidara and Sasuke was able to blitz a more powerful version of Madara in the same manner, we can clearly give Sasuke the edge but I'll call them equal.

Now this is the point when you realize your argument is trash. Kaguya is able to react to Sasuke here unlike Madara ever could: Biju Hachimaki
Meaning that Kaguya > Madara in reactions, and Kaguya could react to night Gai at the distance Gai could. 

Now Naruto relying on solely physical speed was able to blitz someone with better reactions then 2 eyed Madara  from the farthest distance: Biju Hachimaki
Conclusion Naruto > Gai. Simple as that .


----------



## ueharakk (Aug 10, 2014)

Night Gai > Naruto's max shunshin > 8th gated gai's normal movement speed > Naruto's normal movement speed


----------



## Csdabest (Aug 11, 2014)

Gai>/=Sasuke>Madara>Naruto>kaguya

People Need to realize Kaguya is not a physically fast person. Naruto Rikudou Senjutsu mode Shunshin failed against Madara yet Succeded against Kaguya after Naruto was battle worn. All these means is that Kaguya is slower than Madara.


----------



## JuicyG (Aug 11, 2014)

Csdabest said:


> Gai>/=Sasuke>Madara>Naruto>kaguya
> 
> People Need to realize Kaguya is not a physically fast person. Naruto Rikudou Senjutsu mode Shunshin failed against Madara yet Succeded against Kaguya after Naruto was battle worn. All these means is that* Kaguya is slower than Madara*.




Then why isnt Sasuke able to blitz the shit outta her when he blitzed Madara ?


----------



## Bkprince33 (Aug 11, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Then why isnt Sasuke able to blitz the shit outta her when he blitzed Madara ?



Kaguya has st, she had to use her st every time sasuke used his


----------



## SSMG (Aug 11, 2014)

Not to mention sasuke used his s/t jutsu way more effective againat madara.. he telepprts a sword right into his chest and againat kaguya he teles her a few feet infront of hinself badically everytime.


----------



## ueharakk (Aug 11, 2014)

SSMG said:


> Not to mention sasuke used his s/t jutsu way more effective againat madara.. he telepprts a sword right into his chest and againat kaguya he teles her a few feet infront of hinself badically everytime.



Sasuke never teleported a sword into Madara's chest, he swapped places with his sword while Madara was traveling to sasuke at full speed resulting in Madara impaling himself before he knew what was going on.


----------



## kingcools (Aug 11, 2014)

SSMG said:


> Umm juicyg seventh gate guy was faster than an instant teleportation technique. madara has reacted to the panel of hiriashin user appearing on screen at least twice on the very panel tjey appeared(tobiramas first usage of it against alive madara and minatos sm usage of it against juubi jin madara.) He reacted to seventh gate guys movements but not on the very same panel he began to move.
> 
> and then eighth gate guy ran circles around this same person who could react to hiriashin.



which means the time it took the hirashin user to attack madara (after using hirashin) is greater than the time it took gai to attack madara (from some distance) assuming same reaction times from madara


----------



## Csdabest (Aug 11, 2014)

This is not even for debate. Madara Casually Blocked Naruto while both injured and healthy. Gai WTF blitzed Madara to the point he couldn't do shit but stand their and look stupid.

I would Venture and say that Gai is actually Slightly Faster than current Sasuke S/T or on Par with S/T speeds with Night Guy. Naruto has not twisted or contorted space to be praised with that level of speed.  Kishi gave a clear level of that.


----------



## ueharakk (Aug 11, 2014)

Csdabest said:


> This is not even for debate. Madara Casually Blocked Naruto while both injured and healthy. Gai WTF blitzed Madara to the point he couldn't do shit but stand their and look stupid.
> 
> I would Venture and say that Gai is actually Slightly Faster than current Sasuke S/T or on Par with S/T speeds with Night Guy. Naruto has not twisted or contorted space to be praised with that level of speed.  Kishi gave a clear level of that.



This really isn't up for debate.

A far more powerful madara than the one Gai fought couldn't physically block an attack from Naruto who was severely holding back on his speed while Madara could physically block 8th Gated Gai's shunshin + EE attempt.  

On the otherhand Naruto blitzed the far faster kaguya before she could even mentally react.

So really, this isn't debatable, Naruto's max speed > 8th gated Gai's normal speed/shunshin


----------



## Lord Aizen (Aug 11, 2014)

SSMG said:


> Except that didnt happen when the flash went faster than instant so theres no reason to assume thas what is going to have to happen in this verse.



Explain how did the flash go instant and what happened


----------



## Csdabest (Aug 11, 2014)

ueharakk said:


> This really isn't up for debate.
> 
> A far more powerful madara than the one Gai fought couldn't physically block an attack from Naruto who was severely holding back on his speed while Madara could physically block 8th Gated Gai's shunshin + EE attempt.


 Proof Manga evidence or panels That Naruto was Holding back against Madara. Madara was the SINGLE AND ONLY threat to deal with. Their is no need to hold back against Madara. As soon As Naruto SAW MADARA he went straight in for the kill. Attempt blitz Fail. Then used one of his most destructive techniques.

So please prove to me. That Naruto was holding back against Madara.



> On the otherhand Naruto blitzed the far faster kaguya before she could even mentally react.



This argument has already been destroyed. Kaguya is not faster than madara. If She was then Madara should have been blitzed by Naruto who was operating in the same exact mode. You don't BLITZ a "Vastly" quicker person only to get COMPLETELY by a inferior person without some enviormental or special conditions.




> So really, this isn't debatable, Naruto's max speed > 8th gated Gai's normal speed/shunshin



By compared Manga evidence. Madara is faster than Kaguya. By statements and what GAI DID>>>>Naruto in speed.

When Naruto twisted and starts distorting space and time with Raw speed. Then you have an argument. Gai speed feat goes far beyond Character reaction. It went towards the laws of the universe by distorting them.

If you think Naruto is faster than gai. Then your probably one of the few people that believes Superman is faster than the flash. Because that is the level in which you are arguing considering that gai distorted space and time with speed while Naruto gets shut down by Madara.

If Gai was moving any faster he probably might break it and run through space and time. Much like how Obito warps through dimension and puts holes in space and time. 


Gai Has feats and statments backing him. Naruto only as a dissapointing Kaguya to back him who hasnt shown any real combat prowess or impressive speed of her own.


----------



## JuicyG (Aug 11, 2014)

Csdabest said:


> This argument has already been destroyed. Kaguya is not faster than madara. If *She was then Madara should have been blitzed by Naruto* who was operating in the same exact mode.




Hold up

Sasuke blitzed Madara but was evaded by Kaguya

Then Naruto blitzes Kaguya...thats a double standard ur trying to pull


----------



## ueharakk (Aug 11, 2014)

Csdabest said:


> Proof Manga evidence or panels That Naruto was Holding back against Madara. Madara was the SINGLE AND ONLY threat to deal with. Their is no need to hold back against Madara. As soon As Naruto SAW MADARA he went straight in for the kill. Attempt blitz Fail. Then used one of his most destructive techniques.
> 
> So please prove to me. That Naruto was holding back against Madara.


Proof Naruto was holding back against Madara:
1) Naruto blitzed Kaguya
2) Kaguya traveled 10 meters before Sasuke could complete a chidori stab
3) Kaguya can mentally react to Sasuke's S/T while Madara can't
4) Sasuke is faster than Madara

Therefore Kaguya is far faster than Madara and Sasuke while Naruto blitzes her.




Csdabest said:


> This argument has already been destroyed. Kaguya is not faster than madara. If She was then Madara should have been blitzed by Naruto who was operating in the same exact mode. You don't BLITZ a "Vastly" quicker person only to get COMPLETELY by a inferior person without some enviormental or special conditions.


Except it's been shown countless times in this manga that characters don't move at their fastest speeds.  KCM Naruto doesn't always move at his 'yellow flash' speed, there are times when he only moves as fast as gaara or base bee. 

Naruto was holding back on Madara and was earlier holding back on Kaguya proven by kaguya's speed feats against Sasuke and Naruto.  




Csdabest said:


> By compared Manga evidence. Madara is faster than Kaguya. By statements and what GAI DID>>>>Naruto in speed.


Manga evidence conclusively puts Naruto and Kaguya above Madara's speed.



Csdabest said:


> When Naruto twisted and starts distorting space and time with Raw speed. Then you have an argument. Gai speed feat goes far beyond Character reaction. It went towards the laws of the universe by distorting them.
> 
> If you think Naruto is faster than gai. Then your probably one of the few people that believes Superman is faster than the flash. Because that is the level in which you are arguing considering that gai distorted space and time with speed while Naruto gets shut down by Madara.
> 
> ...


So now you are attempting to deceptively make it seem like I'm arguing Naruto is faster than Night Gai.  If that's how low you have to stoop then it just shows how unsupported your arguments are.

Night Gai obviously is faster than Naruto since Naruto doesn't distort space with his movements, however Kaguya is conclusively faster than Madara and therefore Naruto's max shunshin is conclusively faster than 8th gated gai's normal speed/shunshin.


----------



## kingcools (Aug 11, 2014)

Csdabest said:


> Naruto has not twisted or contorted space to be praised with that level of speed.  Kishi gave a clear level of that.



what does "distort space" even mean lol its just a fancy phrase.
how do you know that this was speed related?


----------

