# Obama defends plans for mosque near ground zero



## Mael (Aug 13, 2010)

> WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama on Friday endorsed plans for a Muslim mosque two blocks from ground zero in New York City, declaring that "Muslims have the right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country."
> 
> Speaking at a White House dinner celebrating the Islamic holy month of Ramadan, Obama said all Americans have the right to worship as they choose.
> 
> ...





Well this oughta look good for his PR campaign with illogical conservative folk and the lovely Tea Party.  Talk about digging a grave with them but it looks like Mark Williams is already digging the party's grave.  Yes, I still believe anyone associated with it is a fucking retard.  

Glenn Beck just creamed himself...but regardless, Obama is right.  Muslims do have this right and again, it's not directly ON Ground Zero.  Two blocks away doesn't equal ON Ground Zero.  No room for fucking semantics.  Islam isn't the enemy.  Religious extremism is.

In b4 Muslim Manchurian Candidate.


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## hammer (Aug 13, 2010)

i sense a shitstorm on its way


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## dream (Aug 13, 2010)

hammer said:


> i sense a shitstorm on its way



I second this statement.


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## Mexican God Lvl 3 (Aug 13, 2010)

One day, we will have our very own set of extremists :33


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## Mael (Aug 13, 2010)

I'm still laughing at "monkey god."



Thanks for proving my point about the Tea Party, Mr. Williams.


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## hammer (Aug 13, 2010)

they ALL should be ashamed for not wrshiping the blood god amirite mael


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## Petenshi (Aug 13, 2010)

Oh No! Its official! Obama is an Arab! !


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## dream (Aug 13, 2010)

> Mark Williams, a spokesman for the conservative Tea Party political movement, said the center would be used for "terrorists to worship their monkey god





Monkey Gods are awesome.


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## Mael (Aug 13, 2010)

hammer said:


> they ALL should be ashamed for not wrshiping the blood god amirite mael



Bitch please.  He's too brutish.  

Tzeentchian all the way. 

The CHANGER of Ways.


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## iander (Aug 13, 2010)

The secret nazi commi muslim strikes again! Damn him and his monkey god!


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## TSC (Aug 13, 2010)

> Mark Williams, a spokesman for the conservative Tea Party political movement, said the center would be used for "terrorists to worship their monkey god." (Oh fucking Lordy...)



What's wrong with this god?:


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## Mael (Aug 13, 2010)

iander said:


> The secret nazi commi muslim strikes again! Damn him and his monkey god!



Our Abrahamic pantheon is fuct.


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## shiki-fuujin (Aug 13, 2010)

Oh lawrd there is gonna be a shit storm on Monday about this-shit meet the press is gonna be on fire!


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## g_core18 (Aug 13, 2010)

Barack *Hussein *Obama. duh.


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## Nae'blis (Aug 13, 2010)

> *terrorists to worship their monkey god*


oh lord 

probably wants them ^ (use bro) out the white house too.


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## KFC (Aug 13, 2010)

Mael said:


> Bitch please.  He's too brutish.
> 
> Tzeentchian all the way.
> 
> The CHANGER of Ways.



Boo...Slaanesh is the way to go. Lots of Sex...LOTS AND LOTS OF SEX 

Anyway, as offensive as this building idea may be to a lot of people, it's still well within the rights of the Muslim community to build it.


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## hammer (Aug 13, 2010)

Mael said:


> Bitch please.  He's too brutish.
> 
> Tzeentchian all the way.
> 
> The CHANGER of Ways.



blood for deh blood god

dem muslims be hiding in metal boxes!


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## Sillay (Aug 13, 2010)

> Mark Williams, a spokesman for the conservative Tea Party political movement, said the center would be used for "terrorists to worship their monkey god."



OH SHIT THE MONEKY GOD.


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## dream (Aug 13, 2010)

KFC said:


> Boo...Slaanesh is the way to go. Lots of Sex...LOTS AND LOTS OF SEX





> Bitch please. He's too brutish.
> 
> Tzeentchian all the way.
> 
> ...



Heathen scum.  

There is only one God.



This is just not going to go over well.  

Muslims have the right to worship where ever they want just like all the other religions.  Does it offend people that the mosque will be built near ground zero?  Yes. 

What should those people do?  They should just shut up and go about their own damn lives.


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## mystictrunks (Aug 13, 2010)

Typical Barrack Osama


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## iander (Aug 13, 2010)

Mael said:


> Our Abrahamic pantheon is fuct.



If he wasn't a total idiot, he would be really embarrassed when he realizes they worship the same god.


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## Tleilaxu (Aug 13, 2010)

As long as Christians get to build mega Churches near sites where Many Muslims were killed in an attack then I will be happy. All in the name of "peace and understanding" of course.


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## Robot-Overlord (Aug 13, 2010)

I dun new it! Obama that Nazi/Commie/secretMuslim doez it again!



> Mark Williams, a spokesman for the conservative Tea Party political movement, said the center would be used for "terrorists to worship their monkey god."



I prefer smelly brown god but OK.


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## ameterasu_41 (Aug 13, 2010)

People have as much right to protest the building of the mosque as the other people have to build it. If they've got the time to waste, so be it.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Aug 13, 2010)

*They should build a Church and Temple by Ground Zero as well. I think it'd send a nice message. *


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## Elim Rawne (Aug 13, 2010)

> terrorists to worship their monkey god



The retard doesn't know he's worshipping the same false idol ?


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## Ceria (Aug 13, 2010)

well of course he does, no surprise there


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## hammer (Aug 13, 2010)

Mael said:


> Bitch please.  He's too brutish.
> 
> Tzeentchian all the way.
> 
> The CHANGER of Ways.





KFC said:


> Boo...Slaanesh is the way to go. Lots of Sex...LOTS AND LOTS OF SEX
> .



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-gSJW3sHXE[/YOUTUBE]


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## Hand Banana (Aug 13, 2010)

Monkey God? Oh shit I gotta get Mider. We got to gather the troops.


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## uchia2000 (Aug 13, 2010)

Tleilaxu said:


> As long as Christians get to build mega Churches near sites where Many Muslims were killed in an attack then I will be happy. All in the name of "peace and understanding" of course.


Is anyone stopping them? (your talking about in the US right?)

Your acting as if Muslims are being given special privileges when in reality they have the same rights as Christians or any other religious group.


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## Tleilaxu (Aug 14, 2010)

> Is anyone stopping them? (your talking about in the US right?)
> 
> Your acting as if Muslims are being given special privileges when in reality they have the same rights as Christians or any other religious group.



It certainly seems they have special privileges, I have never seen so many people bending over backwards trying not to offend members of other religions as I have seen for Islam.



> They should build a Church and Temple by Ground Zero as well. I think it'd send a nice message.



If they built a center there for all the other major religions I would not have an issue with that.


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## uchia2000 (Aug 14, 2010)

Tleilaxu said:


> It certainly seems they have special privileges, I have never seen so many people bending over backwards trying not to offend members of other religions as I have seen for Islam.


On the same token I have never seen as many people oppose the spread of Islam in the United States as other religions. 

In terms of legal affairs what special privileges does Islam get over Christianity or any other religion?



Tleilaxu said:


> If they built a center there for all the other major religions I would not have an issue with that.


You mean a place where all religions can worship in the same building? Shit would go down.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Aug 14, 2010)

Tleilaxu said:


> If they built a center there for all the other major religions I would not have an issue with that.



*No one is stopping them. I think it's a great idea, done right it would spread understanding between people. *


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## Tleilaxu (Aug 14, 2010)

> On the same token I have never seen as many people oppose the spread of Islam in the United States as other religions.



Look at all the issues Islamic areas have and its easy to see why


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## Pimp of Pimps (Aug 14, 2010)

Tleilaxu said:


> Look at all the issues Islamic areas have and its easy to see why



*There is absolutely no reason whatsoever why the spread of Islam in the US should be opposed even in the slightest. *


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## uchia2000 (Aug 14, 2010)

Tleilaxu said:


> Look at all the issues Islamic areas have and its easy to see why



You kinda ignored the main part of my post. On a legal basis what special privileges does Islam get that other religions aren't allowed to have?


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## makeoutparadise (Aug 14, 2010)

TSC said:


> What's wrong with this god?:
> 
> *Spoiler*: __



All our monkey god!!!!!


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## EvanNJames (Aug 14, 2010)

It's not a mosque. It's a community center.

This shit is getting stupid.


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## ninjaneko (Aug 14, 2010)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> *No one is stopping them. I think it's a great idea, done right it would spread understanding between people. *


I...agree with this.



EvanNJames said:


> It's not a mosque. It's a community center.
> 
> This shit is getting stupid.


Haven't you figured out by now that image and perception are everything? It doesn't need to be a mosque to be a mosque. "It's all the same," right? In any case, "It's a mosque" just needs to be repeated three times, either by the same person at different times, or different people at the same time, and voila! It's a mosque.


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## Seto Kaiba (Aug 14, 2010)

??ᴑɼe.neʋe said:


> Not surprised really.



Of course, given he's a secret Kenyan Muslim and all.

Facepalm indeed, everyone knows this isn't the time for facts!


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## First Tsurugi (Aug 14, 2010)

"Monkey god" 

Where's _your_ god now, Tea Party apologists?


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## geG (Aug 14, 2010)

??ᴑɼe.neʋe said:


>



What's facepalm-worthy about that?


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## EvanNJames (Aug 14, 2010)

ninjaneko said:


> I...agree with this.
> 
> 
> Haven't you figured out by now that image and perception are everything? It doesn't need to be a mosque to be a mosque. "It's all the same," right? In any case, "It's a mosque" just needs to be repeated three times, either by the same person at different times, or different people at the same time, and voila! It's a mosque.



Of course! How could I forget? 

Because politics always follows the 'Bloody Mary in a dark bathroom' rule.


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## Jin-E (Aug 14, 2010)

Damn, isnt this the third Mosque thread in recent days?

OT, not suprising that Obama said that. Allthough i sorta agree with him on this, dude would rather swim in a Alligator pool than having a standpoint that could in any way offend Muslims.




> Mark Williams, a spokesman for the conservative Tea Party political movement, said the center would be used for "terrorists to worship their monkey god." (Oh fucking Lordy...)



Oh wow. And they bitch about Muslims being insensitive


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## Raiden (Aug 14, 2010)

Good.              .


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## DarkLordOfKichiku (Aug 14, 2010)

KFC said:


> Boo...Slaanesh is the way to go. Lots of Sex...LOTS AND LOTS OF SEX



Though one must consider that with him - her? it? - you're just about as likely to find yourself on the top as on the bottom - and in the later case, in the wrong hol - err, place 

Anyway,  I'm not particually favourable nor opposed towards the issuse here, but I can see that people aren't going to like it. Maybe it'd be better to let the matter wait and cool for a few more years...


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## Frostman (Aug 14, 2010)

I want this to pass. I want to see just how stupid ignorant Americans can get. If something big does happen, it might be the catalyze needed for some good change.


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## Hellrasinbrasin (Aug 14, 2010)

Time to drop his ass back in the Middle East were he and the rest of these Terrorist sympothizing backwards fucks belong then Nuke the Middle East for good measure.


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## Hellrasinbrasin (Aug 14, 2010)

Barak Obama wants Mosque's next to Ground Zero would Japan allow the US to Build Churches in Hiroshima and Nagasaki 65 years after droping the "Bomb" I don't fucking think so... So why is the U.S. allowing these bastards to do so "Because we don't want to send the wrong impression."


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## MunchKing (Aug 14, 2010)

This thread has me in stitches.


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## Hellrasinbrasin (Aug 14, 2010)

But how do we know that the people who want to build the Mosque are Legal Citizens and not "Illegals" that came into the country illegally.

We all know that these Mosque's are going to be used as a place for "Terrorist Cell's" to meet and plan attacks against the U.S. again and when it happens and it will don't come crying to me saying "we didn't know"

and I'll say remember the FOX and the Scorpion:

A scorpion was wandering along the bank of the river, wondering 
how to get to the other side. Suddenly he saw a fox. He asked 
the fox to take him on his back across the river.

The fox said, "No. If I do that, you'll sting me and I'll drown."
The scorpion assured him, "If I did that, we'd both drown."

So the fox thought about it and finally agreed. So the scorpion 
climbed up on his back and the fox began to swim. But halfway 
across the river, the scorpion stung him.

As the poison filled his veins, the fox turned to the scorpion and 
said, "Why did you do that? Now you'll drown too."

"I couldn't help it," said the scorpion. "It's my nature."


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## Darth (Aug 14, 2010)

Tleilaxu said:


> It certainly seems they have special privileges, I have never seen so many people bending over backwards trying not to offend members of other religions as I have seen for Islam.
> 
> 
> 
> If they built a center there for all the other major religions I would not have an issue with that.



Maybe because Islam has been offended so many fucking times? Certainly more than any other religion in recent history. 

Bah. Every religious sect is free to build wherever they like as long as it is done legally and within the law.

Which the mosque is btw. There shouldn't be a problem with this. It's not like Muslims around the globe are taunting the U.S by building a mosque two blocks away from ground Zero. If you hadn't noticed, that area is DOWNTOWN NEW YORK CITY. It's rather popular and crowded. If you're going to build a religious center, there's no better place to put it. 



Tleilaxu said:


> Look at all the issues Islamic areas have and its easy to see why



You mean all the haters attacking Mosques and Islamic centers? I've seen angry americans shoot bullets at mosques for no other reason than that those who committed the atrocity of 9/11 claimed themselves to be muslim. 

You talking about those issues?

Hell, black and hispanic areas have FAR MORE issues. 



Hellrasinbrasin said:


> Barak Obama wants Mosque's next to Ground Zero would Japan allow the US to Build Churches in Hiroshima and Nagasaki 65 years after droping the "Bomb" I don't fucking think so... So why is the U.S. allowing these bastards to do so "Because we don't want to send the wrong impression."





What does Hiroshima have to do with Christianity? Did the US nuke Japan in the name of Jesus? Did they drop religious affiliation into the conflict at any time during the war? 

If the US wanted to build a church next to Hiroshima or Nagasaki, Japan would be more than happy to host it. Maybe because a good 50% of their population is Christian? 

You guys are making no sense at all.


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## Spirit (Aug 14, 2010)

Tleilaxu said:


> As long as Christians get to build mega Churches near sites where Many Muslims were killed in an attack then I will be happy. All in the name of "peace and understanding" of course.



You get to say this when Christian/jewish terrorists strike down this mosque during Friday prayer in 9/11/2020. Oh look! 9+11=20. that's 20/2020 omg omg. And 9/11/2020 WILL be on Friday!

What a plan!!!! 



Seto Kaiba said:


> Of course, given he's a secret Kenyan Muslim and all.
> 
> Facepalm indeed, everyone knows this isn't the time for facts!





Geg said:


> What's facepalm-worthy about that?



Because she wished this was the case



> Obama said al-Qaida is not the enemy, Islam is.



or,



> Al-Qaida said Obama is not the enemy, Islam is.



Islam *must* be the enemy. *Must* be.


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## Darth (Aug 14, 2010)

Hellrasinbrasin said:


> But how do we know that the people who want to build the Mosque are Legal Citizens and not "Illegals" that came into the country illegally.
> 
> We all know that these Mosque's are going to be used as a place for "Terrorist Cell's" to meet and plan attacks against the U.S. again and when it happens and it will don't come crying to me saying "we didn't know"
> 
> ...





EDIT: I apologize. I was a bit rude. Still, that statement is a bit over the top. Even for an extremist on the other end of the scale.


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## Hellrasinbrasin (Aug 14, 2010)

I speak t0 p30pl3 LiK3 all the tim3 d0n't y0u.

And yes "Darth" I fully believe what I said.

So I'll be waiting, for this decision by The President; to come and bite him in the ass.


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## Spirit (Aug 14, 2010)

Hellrasinbrasin said:


> I speak t0 p30pl3 LiK3 all the tim3 d0n't y0u.
> 
> And yes "Darth" I fully believe what I said.
> 
> So I'll be waiting, for this decision by The President; to come and bite him in the ass.



Becareful what you wish for


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## Darth (Aug 14, 2010)

Hellrasinbrasin said:


> I speak t0 p30pl3 LiK3 all the tim3 d0n't y0u.
> 
> And yes "Darth" I fully believe what I said.
> 
> So I'll be waiting, for this decision by The President; to come and bite him in the ass.



What I recommend that you do, is go talk with your community. Go ask questions and opinions about Muslims. Go research Islam in general.

Because you quite clearly have absolutely no credibility in the area. In short, YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

At all.

Period.

Kapish.


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## Mintaka (Aug 14, 2010)

Not surprising coming from Barrack Hussein Obomber.

His own name alone betrays his warlike muslim heritage.


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## Darth (Aug 14, 2010)

Tokoyami said:


> Not surprising coming from Barrack Hussein Obomber.
> 
> His own name alone betrays his warlike muslim heritage.



You do realize that he's admitted to being Christian right?

And that he's Kenyan?

And lol @ Muslims being warlike. What does that make Christians then? Savages?

And Hindu's? They're evil monsters right?

Religious tolerance is in very short supply on this forum.


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## Mintaka (Aug 14, 2010)

Darth said:


> You do realize that he's admitted to being Christian right?
> 
> And that he's Kenyan?
> 
> ...


You do know of something called SARCASM don't you?

Fuck me, how much more obvious do I have to make my jokes before people realize I'm not being serious?  I spelled his name fucking wrong as a parody of what some people actually think of the man.



> Religious tolerance is in very short supply on this forum.


Lol @ all religions equally.


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## Mexican God Lvl 3 (Aug 14, 2010)

Darth said:


> You do realize that he's admitted to being Christian right?
> 
> And that he's Kenyan?
> 
> ...



First of all, there shouldnt be any kind of religious tolerance.

We shouldnt even be nurturing people who believe in religion.

That silly shit has to die.


Tokoyami said:


> You do know of something called SARCASM don't you?
> 
> Fuck me, how much more obvious do I have to make my jokes before people realize I'm not being serious?  I spelled his name fucking wrong as a parody of what some people actually think of the man.


Do that gay shit, were u add a "/sarcasm" at the end of your post.


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## Mintaka (Aug 14, 2010)

Mexican God said:


> Do that gay shit, were u add a "/sarcasm" at the end of your post.


Your right I really should.

/sarcasm.


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## Darth (Aug 14, 2010)

Tokoyami said:


> You do know of something called SARCASM don't you?
> 
> Fuck me, how much more obvious do I have to make my jokes before people realize I'm not being serious?  I spelled his name fucking wrong as a parody of what some people actually think of the man.
> 
> Lol @ all religions equally.




I apologize then. I had no idea.  

You're not very good at internet sarcasm. Either that or I'm not very good at deciphering it. 


Mexican God said:


> First of all, there shouldnt be any kind of religious tolerance.
> 
> We shouldnt even be nurturing people who believe in religion.
> 
> ...



Toleration of non-religiously affiliated individuals should also be encouraged.


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## Hellrasinbrasin (Aug 14, 2010)

No clue no Darth assious I think you are the clueless one I think you might actually be one of Obama's groupies who support terrorrism. And for your information I've read the Quran along with other religious books doesn't change the fact that "The Quran" is used  by 75% of the Middle East to justify its "Holy War."

I say the Middle East has justified the U.S. resolve to erase everyone in the Middle East from this Earth.


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## Mexican God Lvl 3 (Aug 14, 2010)

Darth said:


> Toleration of non-religiously affiliated individuals should also be encouraged.


 are you hitting on me?


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## Darth (Aug 14, 2010)

Ahh no you caught me. 

I'm really a terrorist in disguise sent to spread our influence over the internet in the hopes of recruiting new blood.

Damn. Now I'm going to have to suicide-bomb myself into your house in the hopes that I kill you and your family in the name of my holy god.

Ahh well, Jihad and all that jazz.


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## Mintaka (Aug 14, 2010)

Darth said:


> I apologize then. I had no idea.
> 
> You're not very good at internet sarcasm. Either that or I'm not very good at deciphering it.


It's okay.  Seriously if he really was anything like that name we'd probably all be dead by now.


Meh, it's three AM in the morning and I'm overreacting to tiny shit.  Perhaps I should go to bed.....


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## Darth (Aug 14, 2010)

Mexican God said:


> are you hitting on me?



mebe. 















**


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## -= Ziggy Stardust =- (Aug 14, 2010)

... Does this guy not realise that all abrahamic religions follow the same god... and people are calling muslims inconsiderate.


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## Mael (Aug 14, 2010)

Hellrasinbrasin said:


> Time to drop his ass back in the Middle East were he and the rest of these Terrorist sympothizing backwards fucks belong then Nuke the Middle East for good measure.





Hellrasinbrasin said:


> Barak Obama wants Mosque's next to Ground Zero would Japan allow the US to Build Churches in Hiroshima and Nagasaki 65 years after droping the "Bomb" I don't fucking think so... So why is the U.S. allowing these bastards to do so "Because we don't want to send the wrong impression."





Gonna go outta my way to assume this is sarcasm.


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## Darth (Aug 14, 2010)

I wish it were. 

Read the posts AFTER those.


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## MunchKing (Aug 14, 2010)

I can't wait to see FOX covering this. It's going to be comedy gold.



Darth said:


> I wish it were.
> 
> Read the posts AFTER those.



You got it all wrong. He's just being hilariously offensive for everyone's fun.


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## Ceria (Aug 14, 2010)

trollbama's out in force. god help us all.


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## Rampage (Aug 14, 2010)

Looks like Darth took over this thread and raped the haterz


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## -= Ziggy Stardust =- (Aug 14, 2010)

CeriaHalcyon said:


> trollbama's out in force. god help us all.



Right so he's trolling you by calling you terrorists that worship a monkey god ... oh wait.


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## Munak (Aug 14, 2010)

It's not even a mosque, I heard. More like a cultural center or something.


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## Eru Lawliet (Aug 14, 2010)

Tleilaxu said:


> If they built a center there for all the other major religions I would not have an issue with that.



If this center would also be for freethinkers like atheists and agnostics, I wont complain, either.


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## -= Ziggy Stardust =- (Aug 14, 2010)

Eru Lawliet said:


> If this center would also be for freethinkers like atheists and agnostics, I wont complain, either.



the center is open to all though i don't think atheists would care about it or go into islamic prayer room :S


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## Draffut (Aug 14, 2010)

Mael said:


> Glenn Beck just creamed himself...



I though I saw a clip of Glenn Beck supporting their religuous freedom to build there? (It was an interview with O'Reilly or something)


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## Eru Lawliet (Aug 14, 2010)

-= Ziggy Stardust =- said:


> the center is open to all though i don't think atheists would care about it or go into islamic prayer room :S



Maybe just once out of curiosity. It would be nice if it had something intersting for everyone (not that I have an idea, how this could be done specificly).


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## Hellrasinbrasin (Aug 14, 2010)

So by that rational a church is a meeting center oh snap they can't be because they're not Mosques lalalalalalal


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## Zabuzalives (Aug 14, 2010)

Mark Williams, a spokesman for the conservative Tea Party political movement, said the center would be used for "terrorists to worship their monkey god."




theres no room left to parodythese guys...right out of a sketch. Epic if not for the fact he actually believes this. Then again, the tea party is not known for its brilliant insights.


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## Didi (Aug 14, 2010)

Obama's right. Innocent muslims shouldn't have to suffer for what some of their fellow believers do.

Though they could have chosen their location a little better.


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## The Weeknd (Aug 14, 2010)

LOL @ all dem americans pissed off.


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## maj1n (Aug 14, 2010)

I believe this will be damaging for Obama.

The core issue, the underlying issue of all this, isn't about who has what rights or not, it is about families of 9/11 (and America in general) still grieving about the loss of loved ones, and not being reminded about it in this way.

Obama's words, strikes to me as if he is caring more about the political aspect of this issue (or the whole Islam/muslim vs west whatever) and not even really addressing peoples pain over the event.

The worst thing is for the followers of a leader to start to believe the leader does not really care about them, and many Americans will get this out of what Obama said.


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## blackbird (Aug 14, 2010)

Freedom of religion... for some. 

It's _Animal Farm_ all over again.


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## Uzumaki (Aug 14, 2010)

Wow, And I thought this thread was gonna be filled with understanding. 



To the haters - Everyone should be able to pick their own religion, And Frankly, Building a mosque near Ground Zero doesn't dishonor anyone. Countless of people died that day, some of them Muslims. America needs to stop bitching. Obama knows what he's doing. 

People getting upset about this are illiterate hillbillies that can't tell the difference between a Muslim and an extremist.


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## Hellrasinbrasin (Aug 14, 2010)

Some of them Muslims that died that day weren't told by their fellow terrorists not to be their that day.

And as far as that Mosque is concerned they can build that fucker in another state and someone elses city just not New York City. And as for the President supporting the construction of this Community Center ie: "Mosque" is an insult not only to the US Citizens that died in New York that day but to the 1000s of soldiers who continue to fight and die in the War in the Middle East. So I say Fuck Barak Obama.


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## Elim Rawne (Aug 14, 2010)

Hellrasinbrasin said:


> Some of them Muslims that died that day weren't told by their fellow terrorists not to be their that day.
> 
> And as far as that Mosque is concerned they can build that fucker in another state and someone elses city just not New York City. And as for the President supporting the construction of this Community Center ie: "Mosque" is an insult not only to the US Citizens that died in New York that day but to the 1000s of soldiers who continue to fight and die in the War in the Middle East. So I say Fuck Barak Obama.



Fuck 9/11
Fuck the victims and their families


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## Shibo Hebihime Uirusu (Aug 14, 2010)

But I'm afraid of monkeys


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## Nae'blis (Aug 14, 2010)

I just want to see reactions to this guys ignorant comment.

Maybe Keith will have him on Worst Persons


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## tnorbo (Aug 14, 2010)

how dare that terrorist Barack Hussien Osama give those heathens the right to worship where they like. it's almost like hes supporting freedom of religion or something.:ho


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## Ennoea (Aug 14, 2010)

Seriously why is this even an issue? The US has bigger problems than some Mosque being built near Ground Zero


----------



## Sasuke_Bateman (Aug 14, 2010)

Who cares? Paris Hilton is being sued!!


----------



## MunchKing (Aug 14, 2010)

Sasuke_Bateman said:


> Who cares? Paris Hilton is being sued!!



Again?  For what?

EDIT: forget it. I googled. Ridiculous.


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## Al-Yasa (Aug 14, 2010)

its just a cultural centre


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## vivEnergy (Aug 14, 2010)

Al-Yasa said:


> its just a propaganda/brainwashing centre



fixed ur post



And in all honesty that's what it's all about. A good anology for it would be for the USSR to open a "cultural center" in New York during the Cuba missile crisis. 

The things people say because a religion is not a country or a nation, they think that people will let it fly 'cause we ain't all extremist. Apparently muslims masses and rulers didn't learn shit from the cold war and the perception of communism/socialism that still persist in the US and will for a fucking long time.

You guise are on the black list for a thousand year, deal with it.


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## Draffut (Aug 14, 2010)

Hellrasinbrasin said:


> Some of them Muslims that died that day weren't told by their fellow terrorists not to be their that day.
> 
> And as far as that Mosque is concerned they can build that fucker in another state and someone elses city just not New York City. And as for the President supporting the construction of this Community Center ie: "Mosque" is an insult not only to the US Citizens that died in New York that day but to the 1000s of soldiers who continue to fight and die in the War in the Middle East. So I say Fuck Barak Obama.



Thank goodness people's right's can't be impeeded upon because it offends or insults other's.



Ishinoue said:


> *BRAVO* Barack *HUSSEIN* Obama you're against the *70% of Americans* that have a* brain* and* dislike* the idea of building a mosque on the ass of Ground Zero. So, BRAV-the fuck-O for being apart of the idiotic *29%* of Americans that are *stupid enough* to bend over and *take it from Muslims* that *live* to *smile in your face and curse you in their hearts* at the same time.
> 
> Again, BRAVO Mr. HUSSEIN Obama. *Bravo!*



Giving Muslims the same rights as everyone else is bending over to take it from them?

Again, thank goodness the minorities rights can't be restricted by the majority.

Though your blatant ignorant generalizing is hilarious.


----------



## Sasuke_Bateman (Aug 14, 2010)

Ishinoue said:


> *BRAVO* Barack *HUSSEIN* Obama you're against the *70% of Americans* that have a* brain* and* dislike* the idea of building a mosque on the ass of Ground Zero. So, BRAV-the fuck-O for being apart of the idiotic *29%* of Americans that are *stupid enough* to bend over and *take it from Muslims* that *live* to *smile in your face and curse you in their hearts* at the same time.
> 
> Again, BRAVO Mr. HUSSEIN Obama. *Bravo!*


----------



## Pimp of Pimps (Aug 14, 2010)

Ishinoue said:


> Yeah, that's pretty much what he does to everyone's comments on just about everything. If he wants it, it happens. If we don't, he doesn't care.


----------



## Draffut (Aug 14, 2010)

Ishinoue said:


> Yeah, that's pretty much what he does to everyone's comments on just about everything. If he wants it, it happens. If we don't, he doesn't care.



Come on back when you understand how the american legal system and civil rights work.


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## T4R0K (Aug 14, 2010)

Secret Service must be so busy right now...


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## Razgriez (Aug 14, 2010)

Ishinoue said:


> *BRAVO* Barack *HUSSEIN* Obama you're against the *70% of Americans* that have a* brain* and* dislike* the idea of building a mosque on the ass of Ground Zero. So, BRAV-the fuck-O for being apart of the idiotic *29%* of Americans that are *stupid enough* to bend over and *take it from Muslims* that *live* to *smile in your face and curse you in their hearts* at the same time.
> 
> Again, BRAVO Mr. HUSSEIN Obama. *Bravo!*



Seriously?

People like you give us true Americans a bad name.

America is about freedom of speech, religion, and the opportunity to pursue happiness. Just because you still have sand up your vagina about 9/11 and blaming all Muslims is a piss poor excuse to even remotely support your claims against a Mosque being built near ground zero.

You have every right to voice your opinion. However they have every right to build that damn Mosque wherever they feel like it! Its America bitch! We can do this shit!


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## αce (Aug 14, 2010)

Sometimes it's like Obama *wants* to get shitstormed.

He knows what's gonna happen now.


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## Stalin (Aug 14, 2010)

vivEnergy said:


> fixed ur post
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Are you mentally challenged?

Ishinoue is just trolling, he's not serious.


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## Corrupt Deity (Aug 14, 2010)

The world would be better off without religion altogether imo. It just causes way too many needless fights.


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## uchia2000 (Aug 14, 2010)

Ishinoue said:


> Please, if you agree with that ass, you're as much of an American as the the Islamic extremists that hate us...which is to say, they're not Americans in case you misunderstood.
> 
> We have freedom, yes. They should still move their Mega mosque and they know it. If they REALLY want to "build a bridge" between us and them, they'll understand our feelings and say;
> 
> ...


Even if they are trolling aren't you making them win even more by acting all butthurt?


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## Munak (Aug 14, 2010)

Popcorn.gif.


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## Mist Beauty (Aug 14, 2010)

A step in the right direction


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## vivEnergy (Aug 14, 2010)

The Cheat said:


> Are you mentally challenged?
> 
> Ishinoue is just trolling, he's not serious.



wat


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## uchia2000 (Aug 14, 2010)

Ishinoue said:


> I assure, my butt isn't hurt. But you're ass won't be feelin' too good after I shove my shoe--oh, never mind.




Cry and rage some moar plz. 

I'm sure your tears taste delicious to them if their intention is to piss people off.


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## Esponer (Aug 14, 2010)

I'm glad that Obama has the courage to stand by his belief in equality. I hope that everyone who has a problem with Córdoba House can still be glad for that: that kind of self-destructive courage, in a politician, is rare. He's probably lost all hope for a second term by doing this.

The fuss over Córdoba House doesn't make any sense to me. It's true that the WTC attack on 11/09/2001 was instigated by a group of people claiming to be Muslims, but it's no way correct or reasonable to paint every Muslim on the planet with the same brush. It's bigoted and insane.

Córdoba House will not be _on_ Ground Zero. It will not be the closest place of worship to Ground Zero (that's a Catholic church). It will not be the second closest place of worship to Ground Zero (that's St. Paul's Chapel). It will not be the third closest place of worship to Ground Zero (that's a Methodist church). It will be the fourth.

23 innocent Muslims died in the WTC attack, of 2,976 (0.77%). This is about in line with the population ratio. It's hard to deny that the wars that followed the WTC attack have brought the total number of innocent Muslims killed to far more than the death toll in the WTC attack.

So when we speak of Muslims and the WTC attack, let's understand that we speak of a religious faith that has lost more innocent lives to that attack than any other. There's no conspiracy of all Muslims in the US to bring ruin to non-Muslims. Those 23 that died with the 2,853 non-Muslims didn't offer their lives up in some vengeful plot. They died like everyone else. They didn't go to their mosques and plot destruction of the US. They went to their mosques to pray, and then they went to work to die.

If you're not convinced, please look at the pictures of these men and women:











Some of them were pregnant. Some of them were fathers of children who were orphaned by what happened. Some were engaged to be married in two months.

How can you imagine bringing yourself to tell these people that their religion is evil, that those who follow it are un-American, and that Islam should be specifically _banned_ from putting up a place of worship anywhere near where they died? How could you tell them that you're going to judge Islam based on the actions of some insane sons-of-bitches on the other side of the planet, and not based on them?


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## Seisokumaru (Aug 14, 2010)

Study how Islam has 'migrated' into Europe.  Look at how they started, look at the approaches they used.  Read the words and guidelines of the mullah's who lead these incursions.  This is how they roll.  They come up to you all nice (while factions of them blow your shit up) and extend the olive branch and build super-mosques and complain about being held accountable for the actions of those of their religion which they often refuse to publicly condemn.  The next thing you know they're  , and .

In the heyday, immigrants came to the country to change themselves to match the country.  When our ancestors showed up on Ellis Island and stood in line, they weren't plotting how to use their racial identity to get ahead, or how to turn their new country into what they wanted it to be.  They were thinking about how they were going to fit in, and excel, by becoming American.  Nowadays immigrants come in droves and keep their language and their culture and demand that the host country (and at this point, it is a host country to them and not a new home) change to accommodate them.

It's not entirely a reasonable argument here with the mosque.  They technically have a right to build there at the moment, but a person who really had the interest of Muslim/American relations in their mind, and not just racial/religious power-tripping, would understand the argument behind this, understand why so many people across the country are so upset by this, and maybe acknowledge it, and move the fucking mosque.  By stubbornly refusing to, the organization involved here is showing their true colors for everyone to see -- they don't want to get along better with us, they want to show us, and the world, that they can enforce their will onto us and that there's nothing we can do about it.  It's the first step towards creating submission (which is, btw, the meaning of the word 'islam' I believe?).


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## Esponer (Aug 14, 2010)

Seisokumaru:

"Look at how they started" ; "This is how they roll" ; "They come up to you all nice"

Tell me about a Muslim friend of yours. Tell me about his religious opinions, his aspirations, his dreams. Tell me everything you think is important. Please tell me all about how he, as a "they" – as every other Muslim – is dedicating his life to an invasion of the US.

If you're against Córdoba House, then describe to me Zuhdi Jasser. You can look him up. He is a "they" – a Muslim. He was a Lieutenant Commander in the US Navy, and is also against the building of Córdoba House. Please describe him to me and explain how he is a "they", how he is part of the grand incursion you speak of. What is his mission in this incursion? What does he think of the holy war he is fighting on behalf of the "they"?

You understand what I'm doing, of course. I'll speak plainly.

Get the hell away from that bigoted place of absurd generalisations. People are people. _Muslims_ are people. Your "they" has no place here. You simply cannot brand millions of (living) _people_ with a few stories here and there that involved less than 0.01% of them.


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## Razgriez (Aug 14, 2010)

> *Please, if you agree with that ass, you're as much of an American as the the Islamic extremists that hate us...which is to say, they're not Americans in case you misunderstood.
> *



You just put me an man who has served 4 years active service in the United States Air Force. Obama is indeed our president and I am actually VERY critical towards a lot of his policies but this time Ive definitely have to agree with him. Your just trolling now or just that fucking retarded.

I defend my country knowing that even though I stand before people like you it is your right to think this way regardless and that is what America makes America. Just remember that you really should be tolerable of others cultures and beliefs. We are a country of freedom. Remember that.

What the hell have you done for your country lately?



> We have freedom, yes. They should still move their Mega mosque and they know it. If they REALLY want to "build a bridge" between us and them, they'll understand our feelings and say;





> "Hey, my fellow Muslims, this is really bothering them and they feel attacked because it's so close to Ground Zero. Whether or not we want to admit it, Islamic idiot-extremists DID attack them very close to our Mosque area. So, for us to really build a bridge of peace and understanding, we should show common politeness and just move the mosque. After all, the Governor of  New York did say he'd give us FREE land to move it. It's a wining deal if we move. We get free land AND we show Americans that we're here to be nice and not rub anything in their faces."



That isnt the point. This is clearly discrimination against those who have nothing to do with Islamic extremists. Your being intolerable against others that have nothing to do with it other then sharing the same god damn religion in name.





> But, the Muslim group doing this isn't going to move. He's not going to move because he's ENJOYING the anger people are feeling from this Mosque. He's laughing at Americans in their own country that DON'T want this atrocity happening that CANNOT do ANYTHING to STOP IT. THAT'S the WHOLE POINT IN THEM WANTING IT THERE! So we have a permanent reminded that THEY WON.



They shouldnt. Just like how the black lady on the bus didnt get up from her seat. Just like how our forefathers stood up and tossed all that tea into the harbor and wrote the declaration of independence. America is about freedom of speech and religion. Not from it.


> They're seeing this mosque as a victory for what they did to us almost 10 years ago. This is what Muslims have always done--build mega mosques on grounds they've conquered.



Wrong.

You are so blind by hatred that you perceive this as though the Islamic extremists have erected a flag over conquered territory. You cant look past the fact that in order for us to over come and stand above our enemy we need to understand and tolerate those victims who have been unfortunately grouped into with those who choose to destroy their beliefs and use them as a weapon to fool and misguide people into fighting their ideals.


----------



## Esponer (Aug 14, 2010)

??ᴑɼe.neʋe said:


> Esponer said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's no different.

Too large a fraction of US citizens are caught up in an ignorant bloodlust against Islam for Obama's statement to be anything but political suicide. Whether he wrote what he said, or someone else did, he still decided that that was the statement he was going to make.

I'd be amazed if he can get a second term on the back of that.


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## Seisokumaru (Aug 14, 2010)

Esponer said:


> Seisokumaru:
> 
> "Look at how they started" ; "This is how they roll" ; "They come up to you all nice"
> 
> ...



'They' is not an all-inclusive word, it refers to the (large) portion of Islam which uses these tactics and approaches, not the westernized, liberal-Muslims that you and I know.

I will tell you about some Muslim friends I have.

Javed lives in Pakistan.  Several years ago I, as an IT Manager, got into a relationship with the company his uncle started (software offshoring).  Javed and I spent many hours talking about software, and eventually as we got to know each other about life and our different countries.  Despite not being in a professional relationship with him any more I still talk to him, IM with him and chat with him on social networking sites frequently.  He is devout, and rather patriotic about his country, but wants more than anything to visit America because he is curious to see if it's like what he's been told.  He's pretty smart, an amazing software engineer, and has a driving work-ethic.  He got married about a year ago, although I forget his wife's name.

Ahmed works at one of my client's today in the AR department.  He plays poker with me and some friends of mine at the company every couple of weekends.  He still considers himself Muslim, but in the same way that most Americans today are Christian, that is he goes to services on holidays and special occasions and generally just focuses on living a good life.  He plays a good game of poker, but is very tight-aggressive, and so pretty easy to read and keep away from.

Jubair used to work with me as a software engineer.  He was fairly surly, had a unique aroma to him (unique even among software engineers, which is an accomplishment) and kept to himself.  At first I loathed him and thought him every inch a stereotype, but I later learned that his command of the language was bad and that while he was a genius back where he came from, he felt like an idiot around people he couldn't understand.  We had dinner a couple of times after work and while I wouldn't say we ever became friends, we understood each other a lot better after I finished that contract.

I'm a computer programmer, my industry is full of Muslims, most of them westernized to some degree.  What you don't seem to understand is that there is another type out there, and while the minority which we are familiar with are good, harmless, fun people, there are a TON, and I do mean a TON, of the other kind.  This isn't assumption on my part, or prejudice, it's a reasoned study of recent world history.


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## Razgriez (Aug 14, 2010)

> Yes, I know that. But if they really want to make "peace" then they should do the right thing and MOVE.



This is like WW2 where we segregated all our citizens of Japanese decent! When will you learn these people are Americans as well. Stop grouping good people with bad ones.


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## vivEnergy (Aug 14, 2010)

me liek this thread


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## Karn of Zeon (Aug 14, 2010)

Can't wait for the Muslims to get a taste of their own medicine.

AKA bomb that fucking mosque.


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## Razgriez (Aug 14, 2010)

Karn of Zeon said:


> Can't wait for the Muslims to get a taste of their own medicine.
> 
> AKA bomb that fucking mosque.



Right. Lets get back at Al Qaeda by blowing up other Americans. BRILLIANT!


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## Pimp of Pimps (Aug 14, 2010)

Seisokumaru said:


> 'They' is not an all-inclusive word, it refers to the (large) portion of Islam which uses these tactics and approaches, not the westernized, liberal-Muslims that you and I know.
> 
> I will tell you about some Muslim friends I have.
> 
> ...



*This post is full of crap. *



Karn of Zeon said:


> Can't wait for the Muslims to get a taste of their own medicine.
> 
> AKA bomb that fucking mosque.



*You are a horrible person. *


----------



## Elim Rawne (Aug 14, 2010)

Seisokumaru said:


> 'They' is not an all-inclusive word, it refers to the (large) portion of Islam which uses these tactics and approaches, not the westernized, liberal-Muslims that you and I know.
> 
> I will tell you about some Muslim friends I have.
> 
> ...



Protip: When you're lying, don't be too specific


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## Watchman (Aug 14, 2010)

Karn of Zeon said:


> Can't wait for the Muslims to get a taste of their own medicine.
> 
> AKA bomb that fucking mosque.



Even if you go with the disgusting notion that all Muslims are affiliated with Al'Qaeda, just take a fucking look at what's happened in Iraq and Afghanistan. More than 100,000 civilians dead or maimed - even _if_ you were to subscribe to such a sickening opinion, then Muslims have already had more than a "taste of their own medicine".

Feel free to join civilized folk (who don't believe in collectively punishing 1 billion+ people based on the actions of a tiny minority that claims to follow the same religion) anytime now, Pitlord-koon.


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## Seisokumaru (Aug 14, 2010)

Elim Rawne said:


> Protip: When you're lying, don't be too specific



Ummm, he asked for specifics mate.

I knew making that post was a waste of time while I was typing it, believe me.  It entertains me more than I can tell you though because it's all true except the names, because I don't wanna give out real names obviously.  I'm guilty of many, many things, but not knowing any Muslims IRL is not one of them.


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## Razgriez (Aug 14, 2010)

Seisokumaru said:


> 'They' is not an all-inclusive word, it refers to the (large) portion of Islam which uses these tactics and approaches, not the westernized, liberal-Muslims that you and I know.
> 
> I will tell you about some Muslim friends I have.
> 
> ...



The majority you speak of are misguided fools. They are raised and trained to think that way but those who lead and control them unfortunately. Islam is VERY important to those people and when someone of similar beliefs comes up to you and tells you those who are essentially infidels are "threatening" your way of life your going to be easy to recruit for the wrong cause.

Its unfortunately but it happens everywhere all the time. Just look at how many idiots believe this Mosque shouldnt be built. Its essentially the same concept.


----------



## Watchman (Aug 14, 2010)

Elaborate, Pimp of Pimps - why is Seisokumaru's post full of crap? Whilst obviously we can't 100 % verify it, it seems legitimate enough.


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## Pimp of Pimps (Aug 14, 2010)

*It's full of crap as in it's entirely pointless. Whooo-weee you know someone who's Muslim and lives in America. Big whoop.

And lol @ claiming that the harmless Muslims are in the minority. I guess all those Muslim women and children and strapped from head to toe? *


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## Z (Aug 14, 2010)

Karn of Zeon said:


> Can't wait for the Muslims to get a taste of their own medicine.
> 
> AKA bomb that fucking mosque.



Implying the same Muslims who want the mosque built are the same who bombed the WTC


----------



## Ƶero (Aug 14, 2010)

HAHAHAHAHA 
This whole thing is hilarious 

I'm sensing a lot of butthurt will result from this. GG bigots


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## Razgriez (Aug 14, 2010)

Watchman said:


> Elaborate, Pimp of Pimps - why is Seisokumaru's post full of crap? Whilst obviously we can't 100 % verify it, it seems legitimate enough.



My experience with muslims are with the Kuwaiti military. You want to talk about some over paid fucktards look no further. They are so lazy and clueless about their job that they need to be latched onto our nipples for survival. If something goes wrong they usually start running or just freezing up in fear. Makes sense why they only give them 1 clip of ammo and its taped shut. Its so when their position is overrun by whatever it will delay the opponent for a few seconds in accessing the ammo.

Most of them sleep or dont do their job. Their "decent" fokes are worse then a 12 year old noob on MW2 when it comes to building clearing. A lot of them like shooting off their rounds before they enter the building. Its not like they care capable of hitting anything anyways. I shot a guy 5-6 times while taking my time while he reloaded just sitting there.

My conclusion is most of them are pussies and more lazy then fat Americans that like to boast about how much more money they make. I suppose all the bad asses join the terrorists.

Their police forces can be ruthless though. When we pick up someone or whatever they get all frightened and think we are going to kick their ass when we bring them into the interrogation room.


----------



## Kahvehane (Aug 14, 2010)

If anything, allowing the community center to be built in such a controversial location is a necessary step this country needs to take on the long, harrowing road to true religious tolerance. I believe Obama makes a valid point: while we can never forget the travesty of 9/11 (nor should we, for that matter), we must remember that Islam itself is not the enemy. Rather, our antagonist is a belligerent group of religious fundamentalists who seek to impose their views upon the rest of the world by means of terror and bloodshed; radicals who show complete disregard for the human lives that are lost in their quest for dominance. Building this community center near ground zero is a perfect way to champion the religious freedom our forefathers fought so hard for in the developing years of this country.  

To put it in simple terms, we must not succumb to hatred. The path to peace is paved with love, freedom, and understanding between people. That will never be achieved if we continue to harbor animosity and intolerance in our hearts.


----------



## Seisokumaru (Aug 14, 2010)

Light Artist said:


> If anything, allowing the community center to be built in such a controversial location is a necessary step this country needs to take on the long, harrowing road to true religious tolerance. I believe Obama makes a valid point: while we can never forget the travesty of 9/11 (nor should we, for that matter), we must remember that Islam itself is not the enemy. Rather, our antagonist is a belligerent group of religious fundamentalists who seek to impose their views upon the rest of the world by means of terror and bloodshed; radicals who show complete disregard for the human lives that are lost in their quest for dominance. Building this community center near ground zero is a perfect way to champion the religious freedom our forefathers fought so hard for in the developing years of this country.
> 
> To put it in simple terms, we must not succumb to hatred. The path to peace is paved with love, freedom, and understanding between people. That will never be achieved if we continue to harbor animosity and intolerance in our hearts.



Muslims,

Moving the Community Center from such a controversial location is a necessary step that your religion needs to take on the long, harrowing road to true religious tolerance for those outside your faith.  I believe the 70% of the country that disagrees with your choice of location are making a valid point: while America should move forward and forgive Islam-at-large for the attacks of 9/11, you must remember that people of your faith did attack us on that day, and that many of you have not openly condemned them, to date.  While you are not our enemy, many of your faith are, and you should understand then that it's impossible for us to tell the difference easily, and while we're really good people underneath, we are human still.  Moving the community center is the perfect way to show the country and the world that you are not invading us, that you are not our enemy, but rather that you too are human beings trying to show us your way -- not force it on us -- and taking advantage of the religious freedom the founders of America intended.

To put it in simple terms, giving is a two-way street, as it tolerance and understanding.  The path to peace requires love, freedom and understanding from ALL parties, not just one.  That will never be achieved as long as we are blind to the fact that 'Islam' is not a single thing, but a collective of a billion people, and that many of them are Good, but many others of them are Evil.  Intolerance for evil is not evil itself, it is the very definition of Good.


----------



## Watchman (Aug 14, 2010)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> *It's full of crap as in it's entirely pointless. Whooo-weee you know someone who's Muslim and lives in America. Big whoop.
> 
> And lol @ claiming that the harmless Muslims are in the minority. I guess all those Muslim women and children and strapped from head to toe?*



The point was him responding to someone who acted like he didn't know any Muslims in real life. I'd thought that was pretty evident.

And I hope you're not referring to me with the second point.


----------



## Jin-E (Aug 14, 2010)

Esponer said:


> How can you imagine bringing yourself to tell these people that their religion is evil, that those who follow it are un-American, and that Islam should be specifically _banned_ from putting up a place of worship anywhere near where they died? How could you tell them that you're going to judge Islam based on the actions of some insane sons-of-bitches on the other side of the planet, and not based on them?



I think this is a pretty flawed arguement. Do you know any of these individuals and how much Islam influenced their life and worldview? You seem to claim that since there are good, moral and righteous people among Muslims it automatically means that it should be credited too their religious conscience. Yet, when extremists commit violence, ostenbly in the name of Islam, their plainly stated claims about representing Islamic values are dismissed as the viewpoints of a radical fringe with no relations to "real" Islam. I find it dishonest if you are going to cherry pick what you are going to credit Islam with. 

In my opinion, you cant designate and put the label "Islam" in nifty little "good" or a "evil" piles. As is the case in any other ideology, religion and sect, there is a mishmash of both good and evil people inside Islam. And as we know, the Quran is a book that deals with many topics. There exist verses that deals with love, piety, modesty, care for ones family etc. These verses will obviously appeal mostly to followers that dont have violent tendencies and are within what we call the "normal" range. Then we have verses that deals with warfare, intolerant remarks about unbelievers, draconian punishments etc. These verses will in return influence those who are already prone to such thoughts.

Islam means different things to different people and can act as a catalyst to both good and evil acts.


----------



## Kahvehane (Aug 14, 2010)

Seisokumaru said:


> Muslims,
> 
> Moving the Community Center from such a controversial location is a necessary step that your religion needs to take on the long, harrowing road to true religious tolerance for those outside your faith.  I believe the 70% of the country that disagrees with your choice of location are making a valid point: while America should move forward and forgive Islam-at-large for the attacks of 9/11, you must remember that people of your faith did attack us on that day, and that many of you have not openly condemned them, to date.  While you are not our enemy, many of your faith are, and you should understand then that it's impossible for us to tell the difference easily, and while we're really good people underneath, we are human still.  Moving the community center is the perfect way to show the country and the world that you are not invading us, that you are not our enemy, but rather that you too are human beings trying to show us your way -- not force it on us -- and taking advantage of the religious freedom the founders of America intended.
> 
> To put it in simple terms, giving is a two-way street, as it tolerance and understanding.  The path to peace requires love, freedom and understanding from ALL parties, not just one.  That will never be achieved as long as we are blind to the fact that 'Islam' is not a single thing, but a collective of a billion people, and that many of them are Good, but many others of them are Evil.  Intolerance for evil is not evil itself, it is the very definition of Good.



1) I'm not a Muslim.

2) You make a valid point, and I understand where you're coming from. However, if took the time to research the group behind the community center, you would know that the organization publicly decries the actions and ideals of Osama bin Laden, as well as the terrorist attacks on 9/11. These people are not interested in shoving Sharia law down the throats of American citizens, as so many people fear without reason. And from my end of the table, you seem to be under the impression that the construction of this community center is a passive aggressive attack on the American way of life by the entire Islamic community. If two blocks is too close, where should it be built, then? Five blocks away? Ten? Fifteen, maybe? How far away is far enough?


----------



## Razgriez (Aug 14, 2010)

> Moving the Community Center from such a controversial location is a necessary step that your religion needs to take on the long, harrowing road to true religious tolerance for those outside your faith. I believe the 70% of the country that disagrees with your choice of location are making a valid point: while America should move forward and forgive Islam-at-large for the attacks of 9/11, you must remember that people of your faith did attack us on that day, and that many of you have not openly condemned them, to date. While you are not our enemy, many of your faith are, and you should understand then that it's impossible for us to tell the difference easily, and while we're really good people underneath, we are human still. Moving the community center is the perfect way to show the country and the world that you are not invading us, that you are not our enemy, but rather that you too are human beings trying to show us your way -- not force it on us -- and taking advantage of the religious freedom the founders of America intended.



This is a terrible point to bring up.

If anything this is all the more reason why the 70% need to open up and fully understand what the hell is going on and demanding these people move their Mosque is a step backwards in the progression of cultural tolerance and what it means to be American.


----------



## Seisokumaru (Aug 14, 2010)

Razgriez said:


> This is a terrible point to bring up.
> 
> If anything this is all the more reason why the 70% need to open up and fully understand what the hell is going on and demanding these people move their Mosque is a step backwards in the progression of cultural tolerance and what it means to be American.



You and I have different meanings of what it is to be an American.  Which is okay, because to be an American is to coexist next to people you disagree with.  It's also about showing tolerance to viewpoints you disagree with, and being able to find compromises.  Someone always have to give, so they can get down the road, that's the nature of civilization.  To become a culture which merely bows down to the will of anyone with a group-identity is to die as a culture.  As Islam seeks to convert people to it's viewpoint, America and Americans have the right, and the responsibility, to do the same.

Good citizenship says that sometimes you have to not get your way.  This is a case where I feel that should be true.  You didn't see Japanese-Americans having Pride Parades in our cities during WWII, and while I don't condone our behavior then, there is a certain standard of decency one should have when those under their umbrella are at war with their country.  My opinion only, but it's based on a lot of thought (I do hail from NY after all), and not really going to change.


----------



## Razgriez (Aug 14, 2010)

Seisokumaru said:


> You and I have different meanings of what it is to be an American.  Which is okay, *because to be an American is to coexist next to people you disagree with.*  It's also about showing tolerance to viewpoints you disagree with, and being able to find compromises.  Someone always have to give, so they can get down the road, that's the nature of civilization.  To become a culture which merely bows down to the will of anyone with a group-identity is to die as a culture.  As Islam seeks to convert people to it's viewpoint, America and Americans have the right, and the responsibility, to do the same.
> 
> Good citizenship says that sometimes you have to not get your way.  This is a case where I feel that should be true.  My opinion only, but it's based on a lot of thought (I do hail from NY after all), and not really going to change.



Bolded and resized so you can see what you typed.

I understand compromise and all and it is part of living in America but this is definitely a unreasonable compromise.

Our meanings of being American is the same. We just seem to interpret it differently.


----------



## Seisokumaru (Aug 14, 2010)

Razgriez said:


> Bolded and resized so you can see what you typed.
> 
> I understand compromise and all and it is part of living in America but this is definitely a unreasonable compromise.
> 
> Our meanings of being American is the same. We just seem to interpret it differently.



Why is this so unreasonable?

Hey guys, y'know, people of your religion kind of attacked on us this site, and we're still kind of sensitive about it and a lot of people are going to really get the wrong idea from this.  Could you move your building that you haven't built yet to a different location?  Here are some pretty prime pickings we thought you might like.  This way you get your building, and people see that you made a compromise with us.

It's not like we're rounding them up and putting them in camps, or asking them not to practice their religion, or talk about their religion, or even to build their building.  We're just asking them to slightly modify their plans, and pick a new location in light of the sensitivity and raw feelings of a huge portion of the country.  Why does sensitivity to Muslims override sensitivity towards all those people who feel strongly about this?


----------



## mystictrunks (Aug 14, 2010)

@ thinking being American means having to show tolerance.

 @ ignoring America's long history of intolerance towards the vast majority of minorities.


----------



## ximkoyra (Aug 14, 2010)

Seisokumaru said:


> Muslims,
> 
> Moving the Community Center from such a controversial location is a necessary step that your religion needs to take on the long, harrowing road to true religious tolerance for those outside your faith.



Is that why the mosque at Staten Island got rejected?  Because it was too close? Do you feel that only non-muslim people get to be offended over 9/11 even though Muslims also died? 

Here is someone who is directly involved:



> To the Editor:
> 
> Don?t be fooled by the claims of those, including the Anti-Defamation League, who say their opposition to the proposed Muslim community center is based on the sensitivity of the site.
> 
> ...


----------



## Mexican God Lvl 3 (Aug 14, 2010)

I better not be in a McDonalds when one of these mutherfuckers decides to suicide bomb it


----------



## Alice (Aug 14, 2010)

A way to spit on memories  Is it me or all this "tolerance" play is getting beyond ridiculous world-wide?


----------



## Seisokumaru (Aug 14, 2010)

Alice said:


> A way to spit on memories  Is it me or all this "tolerance" play is getting beyond ridiculous world-wide?



The most amusing part is that the ones we're constantly reminded to tolerate are those who show the least tolerance toward others.

No one reminds us to 'tolerate' the canadians.  Even though they're different, they themselves have tolerance, and so we just sort of coexist with them.

It is only the bigoted and intolerant cultures we're told to show tolerance towards.  Maybe, just maybe, it's not such a good thing to tolerate intolerance in others.  Maybe the end result of 'tolerating' intolerance is that intolerance wins.

JMO.


----------



## Esponer (Aug 14, 2010)

Jin-E said:


> Esponer said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think you misunderstood me. We're of the same opinion on this.

I don't credit Islam itself with anything. People are people. If they're good people it's not because of their religious belief, and if they're bad people it's equally divorced from that. Oh, religion can have some connection to both, but people are always just being people.

I'm not sure what else to say. You've misunderstood what I was saying, but alas, I can't think of a clearer way to say it.


----------



## Razgriez (Aug 14, 2010)

Seisokumaru said:


> Why is this so unreasonable?
> 
> Hey guys, y'know, people of your religion kind of attacked on us this site, and we're still kind of sensitive about it and a lot of people are going to really get the wrong idea from this.  Could you move your building that you haven't built yet to a different location?  Here are some pretty prime pickings we thought you might like.  This way you get your building, and people see that you made a compromise with us.
> 
> It's not like we're rounding them up and putting them in camps, or asking them not to practice their religion, or talk about their religion, or even to build their building.  We're just asking them to slightly modify their plans, and pick a new location in light of the sensitivity and raw feelings of a huge portion of the country.  Why does sensitivity to Muslims override sensitivity towards all those people who feel strongly about this?



You need to start by first not grouping the religion to the actual foe. If you group both together your merely creating more enemies this way for one.

You need to understand that it wasnt Islam that attacked us. It was a group of extremists with the intent of destroying our society that did. They merely used their religion as a tool to motivate their cause.

I dont mind if you politely ask but they also are within their rights to politely decline as well. What then? Should physical force be used against them? Should it be illegal for muslims to build any sort of house of worship within a certain radius of ground zero simply because of the incident? See where I am going with this? It is clearly unconstitutional according to the 1st amendment to decline the right of muslims to build a mosque within this community center near ground zero no matter how many people may become so butt hurt over it.


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## The Pink Ninja (Aug 14, 2010)

Do you think the total threads on this topic have passed 1000 posts yet?


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## Razgriez (Aug 14, 2010)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Do you think the total threads on this topic have passed 1000 posts yet?



Its almost as big as the flotilla incident.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Aug 14, 2010)

Razgriez said:


> Its almost as big as the flotilla incident.



It's just a slow burner


----------



## Seisokumaru (Aug 14, 2010)

Razgriez said:


> You need to start by first not grouping the religion to the actual foe. If you group both together your merely creating more enemies this way for one.
> 
> You need to understand that it wasnt Islam that attacked us. It was a group of extremists with the intent of destroying our society that did. They merely used their religion as a tool to motivate their cause.
> 
> I dont mind if you politely ask but they also are within their rights to politely decline as well. What then? Should physical force be used against them? Should it be illegal for muslims to build any sort of house of worship within a certain radius of ground zero simply because of the incident? See where I am going with this? It is clearly unconstitutional according to the 1st amendment to decline the right of muslims to build a mosque within this community center near ground zero no matter how many people may become so butt hurt over it.



No, this isn't a time when force should be used.  But in my mind, if they build there, then it's just like a KKK demonstration.  Yeah, we allow the KKK to demonstrate, but they do it in the face of such opposition that it's reasonable, even expected, for the opposition to get nasty.  I won't fault people for sounding like racists when talking about this issue, or for using nasty polemic, or for really getting angry.  Building a mosque there is a slap in the face, and it's obvious that a large majority of Americans agree with that sentiment.  It is their choice to build there, but I have no sympathy for what might happen to them as a result.

I'm sure the comparison I just made is going to send several people frothing at the mouth, but it's an apt one.  People are free to do unpopular things that the majority find repugnant, but they make the bed they end up laying in.


----------



## Jin-E (Aug 14, 2010)

Esponer said:


> I think you misunderstood me. We're of the same opinion on this.
> 
> I don't credit Islam itself with anything. People are people. If they're good people it's not because of their religious belief, and if they're bad people it's equally divorced from that. Oh, religion can have some connection to both, but people are always just being people.
> 
> I'm not sure what else to say. You've misunderstood what I was saying, but alas, I can't think of a clearer way to say it.



Ah, Ok

My apologies then.


----------



## Razgriez (Aug 14, 2010)

Seisokumaru said:


> No, this isn't a time when force should be used.  But in my mind, if they build there, then it's just like a KKK demonstration.  Yeah, we allow the KKK to demonstrate, but they do it in the face of such opposition that it's reasonable, even expected, for the opposition to get nasty.  I won't fault people for sounding like racists when talking about this issue, or for using nasty polemic, or for really getting angry.  Building a mosque there is a slap in the face, and it's obvious that a large majority of Americans agree with that sentiment.  It is their choice to build there, but I have no sympathy for what might happen to them as a result.
> 
> I'm sure the comparison I just made is going to send several people frothing at the mouth, but it's an apt one.  People are free to do unpopular things that the majority find repugnant, but they make the bed they end up laying in.



This is nothing like a KKK demonstration. If anything this is a civil rights issue where Muslims are clearly being discriminated against because some people that share the same faith wrecked havoc nearly a decade ago. Only ignorance and misguided perception is the reason why it is seen as a slap in the face.

If anything this is just like Rosa Parks standing up to unfair discrimination and sitting up on the front of the bus.

This is religious discrimination. Which is completely unconstitutional and even tyranny from the majority cannot trump your constitutional rights.


----------



## Seisokumaru (Aug 14, 2010)

Razgriez said:


> This is nothing like a KKK demonstration. If anything this is a civil rights issue where Muslims are clearly being discriminated against because some people that share the same faith wrecked havoc nearly a decade ago. Only ignorance and misguided perception is the reason why it is seen as a slap in the face.
> 
> If anything this is just like Rosa Parks standing up to unfair discrimination and sitting up on the front of the bus.
> 
> This is religious discrimination. Which is completely unconstitutional and even tyranny from the majority cannot trump your constitutional rights.



We just disagree on this man.  You're smart and articulate so like, I don't feel like continuing to argue with you, but I (and many, many other people) see this totally differently than you do.  That's fine, but the tyranny of the minority as a system of government and as a system of public discourse is growing really weary on me and a lot of other people.  Sometimes, the majority gets its way, and in this case, I feel, one way or another it will.

I'm not against Islam, I don't discriminate against Muslims in my personal life, but this is BS.  I literally lost relatives and have friends that lost friends and relatives in 9/11, and you don't build a super-mosque at ground zero.  Sorry.  I can't wrap my mind around it.  I acknowledge their right to do it, but the dickishness they're showing by doing it, the smug douchebaggery, takes my breath away.

This is to freedom of religion as yelling 'fire' in a crowded theater is to free speech.


----------



## uchia2000 (Aug 14, 2010)

Seisokumaru said:


> Sometimes, the majority gets its way, and in this case, I feel, one way or another it will.


What is there left legally that you can do?


----------



## Razgriez (Aug 14, 2010)

Seisokumaru said:


> We just disagree on this man.  You're smart and articulate so like, I don't feel like continuing to argue with you, but I (and many, many other people) see this totally differently than you do.  That's fine, but the tyranny of the minority as a system of government and as a system of public discourse is growing really weary on me and a lot of other people.  Sometimes, the majority gets its way, and in this case, I feel, one way or another it will.
> 
> I'm not against Islam, I don't discriminate against Muslims in my personal life, but this is BS.  I literally lost relatives and have friends that lost friends and relatives in 9/11, and you don't build a super-mosque at ground zero.  Sorry.  I can't wrap my mind around it.  I acknowledge their right to do it, but the dickishness they're showing by doing it, the smug douchebaggery, takes my breath away.
> 
> This is to freedom of religion as yelling 'fire' in a crowded theater is to free speech.



I can understand how it can bother you. But to be the better man you just need to look at the whole picture and understand these people building the mosque arent bad people. They are just as American as you and I and its just unfair how we have been treating them as of late.

They are just becoming defensive towards the way they are being treated. Just think about it if you were in their position. We need to show the world that we are better then this and we really can stand as a multicultural nation and truly prove we are the best nation in the world.

If we cant get past this issue I fear for the future of our society. I only debated with you in hopes of opening your mind and possibly thinking more thoroughly over the issue just like I have. Believe it or not I thought that it was a bit bitter to build the Mosque there as well until I just thought about it and how I really was being unfair towards them.


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## Razgriez (Aug 14, 2010)

??ᴑɼe.neʋe said:


> They shouldn't have chosen to build there in the first place. Its provocative and you know it is. No one is saying they _can't_ have one -- they are just _asking_ them not  to have it there -- to be continuously spat in the face and kicked in the teeth by the "Religion of Peace".
> 
> If it will really be a _just_ community center then why not make it a Synagogue as well and a Church as well? Why won't Islam allow a Synagogue to be built in Mecca? Now that will bridge some gaps.



Again. This is merely because of how your all perceiving it. Its just a church for muslims.


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## Seisokumaru (Aug 14, 2010)

Razgriez said:


> If we cant get past this issue I fear for the future of our society. I only debated with you in hopes of opening your mind and possibly thinking more thoroughly over the issue just like I have. Believe it or not I thought that it was a bit bitter to build the Mosque there as well until I just thought about it and how I really was being unfair towards them.



This is a good point, but I feel like I'm always in that position.  Demographic information:  I'm a white male in my 20's with a successful career who lives in an affluent suburb of Portland.

I mean...  I always have to be the bigger man, like, every single time.  I turn on the TV and all I see is how fucking terrible me and my kind are to every minority in the world.  If I want to read an academic book it's almost a guarantee that a chapter of it (no matter the subject matter) will be dedicated to the Evils of Big Whitey.  My choice is news is between fundamentalist idiots spouting corporatist party lines and white apologists simpering around in the dirt on their knees.

I have feelings, just like Muslims, and I while I acknowledge that being the most privileged class of human being has upsides and that, in most cases, being gracious is how I should be.  But can't there be one time, just one time, one thing, that I don't have to be the bigger man about?  Can I be as petty, nagging, accusatory and small-minded as the hundred little paper-cuts I've grit my teeth and swallowed over the years?

While I phrased this in the first person singular, I don't think I'm alone.  America generally polls pretty tolerant (unless it's a biased poll done by some social conservative think tank), but on this issue, it doesn't.  It polls very, very close to how I feel on the matter.  And I'm not socially conservative as a rule.  I support any social liberal cause you care to name, but in this one case, my very soul, the foundation of my being, rebels against this.


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## Razgriez (Aug 14, 2010)

Seisokumaru said:


> This is a good point, but I feel like I'm always in that position.  Demographic information:  I'm a white male in my 20's with a successful career who lives in an affluent suburb of Portland.
> 
> I mean...  I always have to be the bigger man, like, every single time.  I turn on the TV and all I see is how fucking terrible me and my kind are to every minority in the world.  If I want to read an academic book it's almost a guarantee that a chapter of it (no matter the subject matter) will be dedicated to the Evils of Big Whitey.  My choice is news is between fundamentalist idiots spouting corporatist party lines and white apologists simpering around in the dirt on their knees.
> 
> ...



Dont let racial guilt get to you and dont let anyone pull that racial shit on you as well. Im VERY critical towards racially sensitive individuals. Blaze of Glory(aka Bender) could probably attest to that.

America is very tolerant and a lot of the time too submissive and guilty over a lot of issues. We should be tolerant but not take anyone's shit either.


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## Petenshi (Aug 14, 2010)

Their are tons of churches near Ground Zero ƒíᴑɼe.neʋe, whats your point?


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## Razgriez (Aug 14, 2010)

??ᴑɼe.neʋe said:


> 600 FEET FROM GROUND ZERO? Do you understand that this building was damaged by debris that fell from the planes on 9/11?
> 
> Not to mention its being built by a man or lack thereof, Rauf, who said this in May -- _"The US and the West must acknowledge the harm they have done to Muslims before terrorism can end" _.



I thought it was 2 blocks away. I could swear a single city block is longer then 600 feet.

Ill just throw it out there for you there and be blunt about it. It is within their constitutional and legal rights to build this Mosque regardless if you like it or not.

You also obviously dont fully understand how far our history with the middle east as gone. His statement has some truth within it. We do need to acknowledge what harm we have done to Muslims. Muslims also have to acknowledge what harm they have done to us as well. Only when both sides understand can we get past the fighting and finally end this war against terrorism. As for the ones that refuse to move on and understand, may we meet in glorious battle.


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## αce (Aug 14, 2010)

This argument that it is offensive to America, is equally offensive to muslims.


Anyone advocating this argument is basically telling the millions of muslims in the country that we will judge them, based solely on the acts of those who claim to be muslims.

And anyone who is spewing this nonsense also gives me the suspicion that you believe the moderate muslims in this country are equally repulsive as the members of Al'Qaeda.

Either way, the argument fails. They don't care how you feel, they are gonna build it. Get over it.


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## MunchKing (Aug 14, 2010)

Is this what becomes of freedom of religion in the United States? The scars of a trauma that has befallen the nation a decade ago appear to have hollowed out its heart.

A large part of the populace willingly forgets the core principles its nation  prouds itself on. Blinded by fear and lingering feelings of hurt, they lash out at what is alien to them. Bigotry and festering hate start their twisted reign over the hearts of many.
_*
That is the real problem.*_



The Pink Ninja said:


> Do you think the total threads on this topic have passed 1000 posts yet?



We'll get there.


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## Razgriez (Aug 14, 2010)

2 can play this game.



Stupid Overemotional Bitch said:


> Did a group inspired by the Bible other holy books run planes into TWC? Stop being ignorant, put your big boy thinking cap on.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You're obviously too conceited and emotional to discuss this subject.

When you calm down. Ill be more then willing to debate with you but until then pissy insults is about all your getting out of me.

If you want to know my stance and why I believe it read my early posts. Your not worth my time only so I can repeat myself.


----------



## αce (Aug 14, 2010)

This is like Japan telling American's they can't build any buildings in Hiroshima simply because of the actions committed by the army.

The difference is, is that Japanese people are smarter, more educated and more tolerant than the silly bible thumping American public who are outright offended by every little thing.

They may as well protest any prayer going on around the area.


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## Razgriez (Aug 14, 2010)

??ᴑɼe.neʋe said:


> Did I say its not their RIGHT to build there? No. I said they KNEW what and where they were building what reaction they would get and from whom. It is within the Constitution their right to build there since they bought it -- but by NO means does that mean they weren't doing it to be provocative.
> 
> I am not conceited -- but I am not a pushover who will bend over and take it either. I know you're stance you antisemite, its very clear what you're ideals are.



Oh I cant wait to hear this. I want to hear every little bit you think about me. Dont be shy I can take it.


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## Petenshi (Aug 14, 2010)

??ᴑɼe.neʋe said:


> Did a group inspired by the Bible other holy books run planes into TWC? Stop being ignorant, put your big boy thinking cap on.



Stop acting like you know the motives of the attackers because you watched T.V.


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## mystictrunks (Aug 14, 2010)

??ᴑɼe.neʋe said:


> We flew planes into two building and killed 3000 people of theirs? We haven't done shit to the Muslims because that means we straight out said we are doing his to all Muslims and we haven't. So now ALL Muslims flew the planes into TWC?


Nah, we just dropped bombs and bullets on them in other countries while committing hate crime towards them in the U.S. from time to time. 


SMH @ some of the lines of thought in this thread. With this line of thinking people of European lineage shouldn't be able to build anything by Native Americans. Southerners shouldn't be allowed to run businesses by black people and the United States shouldn't be able to build anything by Japanese.


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## Hand Banana (Aug 14, 2010)

Not all Muslims equal terrorist. But at the same time thats not really the best decision to build there exactly.


----------



## Euraj (Aug 14, 2010)

♠Ace♠ said:


> This argument that it is offensive to America, is equally offensive to muslims.
> 
> 
> Anyone advocating this argument is basically telling the millions of muslims in the country that we will judge them, based solely on the acts of those who claim to be muslims.
> ...


You need to try to look at this both sides. I'm not saying the anti-mosqueites are right. In fact, they're both wrong.

This should be were America shows it stuff. If the general population was perfect in abiding by the principles that the nation stands for, then there wouldn't be any complaints about the mosque being built there, despite the scars left from nine years ago.

*However:* Seeing that it's general knowledge that humans, let alone Americans, are not perfect beings and are subject to biases and irrational and subjective responses to things, the commandant of this project should have known better than to select that location anyway. His mindset should have been "we have the right to do this, but perhaps to keep tension between us and the others from getting any worse, it would be best not to do." To give another example: You know there's no law against driving into Bed-Stuy, Brooklyn and blasting some peppy Pop-Rock music, but at the same time, you know doing so would be absolutely retarded. 

The objective was as deliberately provocative as the opposing side is deliberately hypocritical. Everyone in this situation is wrong.


----------



## Razgriez (Aug 14, 2010)

> No, its not like it can't be in New York or even where they chose to build it -- but they can't prance around saying "PEACE THAT" & "PEACE THIS" as well because they did it to be provocative. Its painfully obvious. Again I say they are within their legal American rights to build there but they did it to be provocative.



Its only provocative if you let it get to you like that. Do yourself a favor and calm down and think about what your talking about here.


----------



## Petenshi (Aug 14, 2010)

??ᴑɼe.neʋe said:


> Since we're *generalizing* here and saying *WE* as in *ALL AMERICA* insults Islam -- Yeah and they do that to themselves, whats you're point? Oh and-and-and they stuff their barracks with babies and civilians so that WE _don't_ "bomb" them.



We still bomb them FYI.


----------



## mystictrunks (Aug 14, 2010)

??ᴑɼe.neʋe said:


> Since we're *generalizing* here and saying *WE* as in *ALL AMERICA* insults Islam -- Yeah and they do that to themselves, whats you're point? Oh and-and-and they stuff their barracks with babies and civilians so that WE _don't_ "bomb" them.



No need to bold words for no reason. The U.S. military is backed by all of the U.S.A, they are a form of representation for us. So we are bombing them.


----------



## Petenshi (Aug 14, 2010)

??ᴑɼe.neʋe said:


> And they to others? Whats you're point? Or are *WE AMERICANS* (Since *ALL AMERICANS WANT TO "BOMB" THEM* as said by you) building Churches/Synagogues etc. where we "bomb" and "kill" them? And is this Bombing and killing post 9/11?



So what? Americans include Muslims, and they have every right to be just as offended which it seems they aren't because they are building a mosque. Go figure.


----------



## vivEnergy (Aug 14, 2010)

> Islam's borders are bloody and so are its innards. The fundamental problem for the West is not Islamic fundamentalism. It is Islam, a different civilisation whose people are convinced of the superiority of their culture and are obsessed with the inferiority of their power —— Huntington's *1998* text The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of the World Order.



This guy can be read like a prophet for what the future world societies will look like (if global warming doesn't kill us all before


----------



## Red (Aug 14, 2010)

Obama says US citizens have a right to exercise their freedom. Tea party members throw a hissy fit. :WOW

I'm still against the plan for a Muslim center near ground zero. My argument is that Islam and American Muslims should distance themselves from negative images and building a mosque near ground zero is associating (by proximity) yourself with a negative image.


----------



## mystictrunks (Aug 14, 2010)

ƒíᴑɼe.neʋe said:


> So naturally all U.S. Citizens back "bombing" them? You do know Muslims are in the Army too, right? Are those Muslims soldiers representations as well?



No, not all but as a whole we do. If by Muslim soldiers you mean Taliban; yesf. However you aren't being very clear when you said Muslim soldiers as that could mean U.S. Muslim soldiers, Iraqis, Afghanis or any host of insurgents. If you mean U.S. ones then eys they do otherwise they would not have signed up for service when we we are primarily fighting Arabs who happen to be Muslim.


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## Razgriez (Aug 14, 2010)

> If doing something like this isn't Provocative why won't Islamic so and so's let Churches and Synagogues be built in Mecca? Lets build the bridges there too!



That is because we are better then Mecca.


----------



## Nemesis (Aug 14, 2010)

Seisokumaru said:


> Hey guys, y'know, people of your religion kind of attacked on us this site, and we're still kind of sensitive about it and a lot of people are going to really get the wrong idea from this.  Could you move your building that you haven't built yet to a different location?  Here are some pretty prime pickings we thought you might like.  This way you get your building, and people see that you made a compromise with us.



Because 

A) It is a community centre not a mosque

B) There is already a mosque right in the same area and no one has been outraged by its existence

C) By acting this way you are basically giving the terrorists a fucking propaganda victory for two reasons.  Firstly it can be twisted into showing how America hates Muslims and also how the terrorists have made America so scared they have given up some of their core principles in going against the community centre.


----------



## Seisokumaru (Aug 14, 2010)

Nemesis said:


> Because
> 
> A) It is a community centre not a mosque
> 
> ...



A)  Right, a Super-mosque.

B)  Which shows how tolerant New Yorkers and Americans can be.

C)  No.  People aren't scared by the super-mosque, they're outraged by it, there's a difference.  And terrorists already say that about us.  Do you think there will be terrorist propaganda showing how awesome and tolerant we are if we let them build it?  Hell no.  Your reason makes no sense because no matter what we do, there will be terrorist propaganda about how the great white devil is back on the ropes because of the heroic freedom fighter.  That's how terrorist groups recruit.


----------



## Petenshi (Aug 14, 2010)

??ᴑɼe.neʋe said:


> Haven't I been saying *they have the right*? Why don't you go read my posts, please?
> 
> There are some American Muslims who are against it, _go figure_.



Because you keep putting things in big red letters which obviously means you are way to emotional about the subject, calm down. Its just a building, which you(In my opinion obviously.) are wrongly associating with terrorism.


----------



## Petenshi (Aug 14, 2010)

??ᴑɼe.neʋe said:


> That's the first time I did that. Where have I associated it with terrorism? Base your posts on *fact*. I am not the one said ALL Muslims have to apologize for 9/11 or other things after all.
> 
> You and many others have associated ALL AMERICANS with "bombing" Muslims.



If your not saying or suggesting that all Muslims aren't at fault, then your argument would have to be we shouldn't build this mosque because some people might get offended for absolutely no reason(Since the only valid reason would be people are wrongly associating the mosque with terrorism). Where else in your daily life do you make this change for people and sacrifice something as big and costly as a mosque?


----------



## Toby (Aug 14, 2010)




----------



## Petenshi (Aug 14, 2010)

??ᴑɼe.neʋe said:


> If they didn't want to offend and look insensitive then they wouldn't have picked that area for the Mosque. But they did and they were. When a certain group inspired by that same religion flew planes into TWC. Its just the bigger thing to do to not build it _there_. But they refused and are still going to.
> 
> No one is associating them with terrorism -- but we are associating them with Jackasses.



What I am saying is that no one can be offended unless they are associating this Mosque with the WTC attacks. They aren't jackasses if they do something that offends some people for no warranted reason.

Do you see how you can't get out of that?

A) The Mosque builders can only be insensitive if there is something to be sensitive over exists.

B) The only reason I can see why people would be sensitive towards this mosque is if they are associating it with terrorism and the WTC attacks. Can you name another?

Conclusion: The Mosque builders aren't being insensitive, or everyone who is sensitive about the Mosque being built are indeed associating the Mosque with radical Islam/WTC/Terrorism.


----------



## Petenshi (Aug 14, 2010)

ƒíᴑɼe.neʋe said:


> Yeah, do you see how Abdul Supporting terrorist groups kind of supports that? Because picking a place where certain people of you're same religion flew planes into WTC is provocative -- or does what they do not matter? Is there a double standard?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My point exactly. Someone being provocative does not warrant being sensitive. Non-Muslim Americans troll Muslims all the time. Thanks for playing.

Furthermore, you still are not following the logic. The mosque builders built the mosque knowing they weren't apart of the attack and thus they aren't being provocative.


----------



## Petenshi (Aug 14, 2010)

ƒíᴑɼe.neʋe said:


> So because _"Americans do it"_ Islami's can? As long as you admit they _are_ doing it
> _
> Thanks for making it easy the usual.
> Game, set and --oh,  you get the picture._



No, I edited anyways.

The point is Americans have no right to be sensitive of this Mosque being built where it is. They CAN be sensitive, but it is unwarranted and thus the Mosque builders are just going about their business. It is the Non-American Muslims and opponents of the Mosque being provocative.


----------



## Petenshi (Aug 14, 2010)

??ᴑɼe.neʋe said:


> You silly unacknowledged child.
> *
> Omar Ahmad Co-founder of the Council on American-Islamic Relations*: ?Those who stay in America should be open to society without melting, keeping Mosques open so anyone can come and learn about Islam. If you choose to live here, you have a responsibility to deliver the message of Islam ? Islam isn?t in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth.?
> 
> Not provocative? No right to be sensitive? Again did or did the Muslims building the Mosque not know of the 9/11 Tragedy? If they did then they are Provocative -- I just _can't_ remember if they know about 9/11 or not.



First of All, I would bet that most Americans don't even know who Omar Ahmad is, much less know anything about anyone connected to the mosque building.

Secondly, is he even apart of building this Mosque? If he is, I'd like to see some data where he is a direct investor and or leader in this development. If he isn't, your post is irrelevant.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Aug 14, 2010)

Silly Tobias, you think the denizens of this cesspool will actually educate themselves ?


----------



## Elim Rawne (Aug 14, 2010)

??ᴑɼe.neʋe said:


> Stupidity; 100%, Relevance; 0%
> 
> 
> 
> He's the founder CAIR, how can he not be? I highly doubt her disclose any information of it though.




Never knew Glen Beck had an NF account


----------



## Elim Rawne (Aug 14, 2010)

??ᴑɼe.neʋe said:


> I had no Idea irrelevance had an account on NF. By the way I hate Glenn Beck -- while he touches the right subject he has no clue the fuck he's talking about.



You should work on your  comebacks


----------



## Petenshi (Aug 14, 2010)

??ᴑɼe.neʋe said:


> Stupidity; 100%, Relevance; 0%
> 
> 
> 
> He's the founder CAIR, how can he not be? I highly doubt her disclose any information of it though.



Its relevant because if no american knows who he is or what he thinks, then how can they be sensitive about it?

Sorry, this is a debate of facts not 'How could he not be'.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Aug 14, 2010)

??ᴑɼe.neʋe said:


> You should work on relevance. Because your attempt to derail this thread is made of FAIL.



Actually, don't work on them. It's a lost cause.
So is your willful ignorance. If you are on meds, you should start taking them


----------



## WT (Aug 14, 2010)

ƒíᴑɼe.neʋe what country are you from?


----------



## Petenshi (Aug 14, 2010)

??ᴑɼe.neʋe said:


> That's you're opinion that _"most Americans probably don't know of him"_ -- Opinion. Why can you use yours and I not mine?
> 
> Abdul Rauf even blamed the West for the start of Jihad -- what of that says he is so peaceful and wants to build bridges?



I agree it is an opinion, but seeing as there is data that most Americans do not know who the secretary of defense is or supreme court justices, I can't imagine how they would know some random Muslim guy from an organization named CAIR.

I try to look these people up to get a feel of why they are relevant, and I find nothing. Does he have any relation to the Mosque? No? Irrelevant.


----------



## maj1n (Aug 14, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> No, I edited anyways.
> *
> The point is Americans have no right to be sensitive of this Mosque being built where it is.* They CAN be sensitive, but it is unwarranted and thus the Mosque builders are just going about their business. It is the Non-American Muslims and opponents of the Mosque being provocative.


Son, you may argue the legality or anything else on this issue, but don't even argue for a moment Americans have 'no right' to be sensitive about 9/11 or anything around it.

Your argument displays a frighteningly stupid degree of insensitivity, and general attitude of being an asshole.

I can see your viewpoint is on the side of sympathizing for the Muslims, but don't forget this issue is about Americans being sensitive because many are still grieving for the loss of their loved ones.

So STFU.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Aug 14, 2010)

maj1n said:


> Son, you may argue the legality or anything else on this issue, but don't even argue for a moment Americans have 'no right' to be sensitive about 9/11.
> 
> Your argument displays a frighteningly stupid degree of insensitivity, and general attitude of being an asshole.
> 
> ...



Oh sod off, Yanks would have a right to grieve if they hadn't rampaged through the ME before and after this


----------



## maj1n (Aug 14, 2010)

Elim Rawne said:


> Oh sod off, Yanks would have a right to grieve if they hadn't rampaged through the ME before and after this


So Yanks are overall responsible, or should feel responsible for what America has done in the Middle-East?

Then definitely by your argument, those Muslims planning for the mosque, and the mosque in general should feel responsible for Islamic terrorism.

STFU your arguments display an obvious double-standard.


----------



## Petenshi (Aug 14, 2010)

maj1n said:


> Son, you may argue the legality or anything else on this issue, but don't even argue for a moment Americans have 'no right' to be sensitive about 9/11 or anything around it.
> 
> Your argument displays a frighteningly stupid degree of insensitivity, and general attitude of being an asshole.
> 
> ...



First of all Maj1n, No one apart of the Cordoba house had anything to do with the attack. You are wrongly associating Islam as a whole and this attack. I know your anti religion and all, so am I, but I don't go around spewing more hate back into the system. Get over yourself. 

Secondly, how many times do I have to tell you that there are Muslim Americans? Your bias shows through immensely. I won't take you seriously until you stop separating Muslims and Americans in your sentences. I am sympathizing with the people who are right. The builders of the Mosque. It has nothing to with them being Muslim. I would do the same if this were a Christian church, Mormon, Etc.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Aug 14, 2010)

maj1n said:


> No actually, its your double-standard.
> 
> 
> So the actions of America, all americans should feel responsible for, but Muslims and this mosque should not feel responsible for Islamic terrorism?
> ...



I see parody goes right above your head. You should stick to debating Islam and making atheists look less annoying


----------



## Shɑnɑ (Aug 14, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> First of all Maj1n, No one apart of the Cordoba house had anything to do with the attack. You are wrongly associating Islam as a whole and this attack. I know your anti religion and all, so am I, but I don't go around spewing more hate back into the system. Get over yourself.
> 
> Secondly, how many times do I have to tell you that there are Muslim Americans? Your bias shows through immensely. I won't take you seriously until you stop separating Muslims and Americans in your sentences. I am sympathizing with the people who are right. The builders of the Mosque. It has nothing to with them being Muslim. I would do the same if this were a Christian church, Mormon, Etc.



I already explained this to you. Why did you ignore me again?


----------



## Petenshi (Aug 14, 2010)

??ᴑɼe.neʋe said:


> I already explained this to you. Why did you ignore me again?



You have explained nothing. Maj1n is the only one who even has an argument because he really DOES believe that the Mosque represents a part of Radical Islam, even though I disagree.

You don't. Which is why I have stopped paying attention.


----------



## Shɑnɑ (Aug 14, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> You have explained nothing. Maj1n is the only one who even has an argument because he really DOES believe that the Mosque represents a part of Radical Islam, even though I disagree.
> 
> You don't. Which is why I have stopped paying attention.





ƒíᴑɼe.neʋe said:


> Do you even know what CAIR is?
> _Feisal Abdul Rauf_ has no connection to the Cordoba House;Mosque?
> 
> He is only;is the chief proponent of the mosque project -- but hey that's not relevant.



To which you ignored. You stopped paying attention cause you are wrong.


----------



## maj1n (Aug 14, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> First of all Maj1n, No one apart of the Cordoba house had anything to do with the attack. You are wrongly associating Islam as a whole and this attack. I know your anti religion and all, so am I, but I don't go around spewing more hate back into the system. Get over yourself.
> 
> Secondly, how many times do I have to tell you that there are Muslim Americans? Your bias shows through immensely. I won't take you seriously until you stop separating Muslims and Americans in your sentences. I am sympathizing with the people who are right. The builders of the Mosque. It has nothing to with them being Muslim. I would do the same if this were a Christian church, Mormon, Etc.


First of all Petenshi, it does not matter whether or not Cordoba was behind the attack, or that some Muslims also died in 9/11.

These petty and fucking stupid argument to try and say building a mosque there is not insensitive and stupid is ridiculous.

I'll give you a couple of examples of basic human decency shall i?

1. Your son is dead, i spit on his grave regularly, i am not involved in the attack and my act of spitting is just to clean my mouth out.

If someone from your fucking family went up to me and asked me to stop, will you say 'hold on, he isn't involved in the murder' to your godam wife?


2. If Americans nuked the shit out of a country unjustly, and then 10 years later, on the place where so many people died, is it ok to put a fucking American flag there? even if it's just so some Americans can salute their country and not the act?

If someone were to say to them, 'please don't do that it brings painful memories of 10 years ago' would you tell them to STFU?


This has *nothing* to do with attributing Muslims with anything, it has everything to do about being decent and respectful for the fact many Americans still grieve for the loss of their loved ones, and we should do the decent thing and try and avoid bringing them more pain by displaying something that reminds them of the event (even for some, being responsible for the event).


*Do you know what is the most sickening aspect of this whole fucking issue? for these Americans, it is a private matter of the loss of their loved ones and trying to cope with it.
But you and every single person who defends the mosque want to drag this godam issue into the political area and make it a whole Islam/Muslim vs West issue*

Every single post you and others make, shows me you dont give a darn that some people are grieving over the loss of their loved ones.
Because if you did, even a little bit, you would instantly agree that this move is bad because it is hurting people who are still grieving over the loss of their loved ones.


----------



## Petenshi (Aug 14, 2010)

ƒíᴑɼe.neʋe said:


> To which you ignored. You stopped paying attention cause you are wrong.



You brought up a summarized quote with no backup, that isn't anything I can't do either.

Fiesel Abdul Rauf even said that he loves all people and just wishes they would get along.

*EDIT for Maj1n: *



maj1n said:


> First of all Petenshi, it does not matter whether or not Cordoba was behind the attack, or that some Muslims also died in 9/11.
> 
> These petty and fucking stupid argument to try and say building a mosque there is not insensitive and stupid is ridiculous.
> 
> ...



Stop. Lets summarize what you have here, and let me just make sure I have got this straight Maj1n.

1) Spitting on Graves is equal to building a building.

2) If someone is hurt over someone dying, it is our duty as Americans to all pitch in and make sure nothing can ever offend them about the subject because of human decency, even if the being offended is illogical.

I am going to quote this again , because you admitting this and still thinking you have an argument is hilarious.  This is the part where my argument comes in rather than just making fun of your ridiculous analogies fueled by your seemingly emotional rage.



> This has *nothing* to do with attributing Muslims with anything, it has everything to do about being decent and respectful for the fact many Americans still grieve for the loss of their loved ones, and we should do the decent thing and try and avoid bringing them more pain by displaying something that reminds them of the event (even for some, being responsible for the event)



So, we both agree this has nothing do do with Muslims and that it is ridiculous to associate this attack with Muslims correct? Your argument then is, because some people in their heads have associated an object(because if isn't about Muslims then we could be arguing about anything, a boat, a car Etc.) with their dead loved one they should never have to be exposed to that object ever. Furthermore, everyone should go out of their way to make sure that the object does not ever come into contact with the people. Is that correct? I just want to make sure this is actually the route you want to go down .

Maj1n, I am not an asshole. But, if I have your argument pegged, you don't really expect anyone to  watch everything they say or do just in case someone died and it reminds them of it, do you? Is it fair to the Mosque builders? They didn't do anything. What if you were making a business, and you finally got the best spot, are you really going to pay to find another because something you had nothing to do with reminds them of your shop?


----------



## Esponer (Aug 14, 2010)

maj1n said:


> 1. Your son is dead, i spit on his grave regularly, i am not involved in the attack and my act of spitting is just to clean my mouth out.
> 
> If someone from your fucking family went up to me and asked me to stop, will you say 'hold on, he isn't involved in the murder' to your godam wife?


Waste of an analogy. Anyone who agrees that spitting on a grave is analogous doesn't need the analogy. Anyone who doesn't agree gains nothing from the analogy.




maj1n said:


> 2. If Americans nuked the shit out of a country unjustly, and then 10 years later, on the place where so many people died, is it ok to put a fucking American flag there? even if it's just so some Americans can salute their country and not the act?
> 
> If someone were to say to them, 'please don't do that it brings painful memories of 10 years ago' would you tell them to STFU?


Bad analogy. You're trying to replicate the same situation with names changed, but you've changed two extremely relevant factors:

1. You've changed from 0.0001% of Muslims acting outside the power and knowledge of the other 99.9999% of Muslims, to the actions of an entire democratic country.

2. You've changed the nature of the structure in a relevant way. An American flag would be a good analogy for, say, an Iraqi flag. It's not a good analogy for a place of worship.

The best analogy would almost be a complete restatement of the actual situation. An analogy isn't going to be useful here. I suggest you try another type of argument.


----------



## Dark Uchiha (Aug 14, 2010)

i see that the president is the president to stand up for _all_ americans no matter what race or religion they practice.

now i must petition that the catholic church that is 1 mile near this elementary school needs to move.

But seriously people need to step back and view this objectively.

the issue they have with this is that the people who are building this are *muslims* and the twin towers were brought down by _*muslim extremist*_.

It doesnt matter that these, muslims dont condone the actions of those terrorist and want a place to worship at the community center they are building. People would have no probably if a church, buddist temple, etc was built, but since its a community center with a mosque inside, there is a problem.

Now how fucked up is that. some of you guys need to self check yourselfs. Xenophobia is horrible

THIS IS AMERICA BABY!!


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## maj1n (Aug 14, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> Stop. Lets summarize what you have here, and let me just make sure I have got this straight Maj1n.
> 
> 1) Spitting on Graves is equal to building a building.
> 
> ...


I would *definitely* say, as decent human beings, we should be able *to do a fucking basic decent act* as refraining from doing thing's that remind them of the loss of their loved ones.

It isn't even fucking hard to do, because what is bring proposed is doing nothing, not building a mosque, thats it, to help the families of 9/11 cope with their loss.

Thats all, and your making it seem as some incredibly big effort.

Son, look at yourself in the mirror sometime, because you disgust me.




			
				Petenshi said:
			
		

> So, we both agree this has nothing do do with Muslims and that it is ridiculous to associate this attack with Muslims correct? Your argument then is, because some people in their heads have associated an object(because if isn't about Muslims then we could be arguing about anything, a boat, a car Etc.) with their dead loved one they should never have to be exposed to that object ever. Furthermore, everyone should go out of their way to make sure that the object does not ever come into contact with the people. Is that correct? I just want to make sure this is actually the route you want to go down .


Yes i would say that Islamic terrorists flying a fucking plane into the building that killed your loved ones, its very understandable that the families of these victims would be reminded of the fucking Islamic terrorists when you display a fucking Islamic symbol (mosque).



			
				Petenshi said:
			
		

> Maj1n, I am not an asshole. But, if I have your argument pegged, you don't really expect anyone to  watch everything they say or do just in case someone died and it reminds them of it, do you? Is it fair to the Mosque builders? They didn't do anything. What if you were making a business, and you finally got the best spot, are you really going to pay to find another because something you had nothing to do with reminds them of your shop?


No one's saying, least of all the families of the 9/11 victims, that they should be legally barred from building there.

Their simply asking it not to be done because it hurts them.

I'll give you another godam analogy because it hasn't sunk into your brain.

If i go to your family during your private family outtings, and verbally abuse the shit out of your wife or mother, calling them a whore.

Is it wrong of them to ask me to stop? because it isn't 'fair' on account of freedom of speech?


I'll break the argument down very fucking simply for you

You (and other) : The Mosque should be allowed to be built because its within their rights

Me (and others): The mosque being built is a bad idea and is insensitive to those who lost their loved ones in 9/11 and we should help their grieving by not doing thing's that obviously reminds them of it.


Notice the second argument is not forbidding that they can't build it or anything like that, so your shitty arguments of legality or equality are completely off-topic because that's not even whats being argued.


----------



## Vanity (Aug 14, 2010)

Yeah. I mean you have to accept Islam and I have no problem with them building one near there.

It's the radicals that are the problem, not your average Muslim.


----------



## maj1n (Aug 14, 2010)

Esponer said:


> 1. You've changed from 0.0001% of Muslims acting outside the power and knowledge of the other 99.9999% of Muslims, to the actions of an entire democratic country.


Umm Acting within or without knwoeldge is irrelevant, if 70% of Americans knew their Government was gonna do something bad but was powerless to stop it.

I don't attribute the action as their fault, no matter whether they knew it or not.

That seemed like basic logic.


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## Dark Uchiha (Aug 14, 2010)

Vanity said:


> Yeah. I mean you have to accept Islam and I have no problem with them building one near there.
> 
> It's the radicals that are the problem, not your average Muslim.



indeed, but it appears the average muslim is being linked to the radicals.

its quite amusing if at the same time it wasnt quite sad.

This would be a good sociology paper for anyone taking that major in college.


----------



## Tasmanian Tiger (Aug 14, 2010)

America's hypocrisy never ceases to amuse me...

They preach about religious freedom and yet they put religious oppression 

Obama is probably trying to show the muslim world that the US isn't against Islam by allowing to build a mosque, but only against Al-qaida. 

But the ignorant american republicans can't see through that and will take anything to tarnish his image


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## Esponer (Aug 14, 2010)

maj1n. I thought of a better analogy.

A major metropolitan area has a population of male youngsters approaching 1,000,000. One of them (0.0001%) makes a bomb and detonates it in a shopping centre, killing 150.

In response, the country wages a war against male youngsters, and sentences 5000 for various crimes. A further 5500 are believed to have been sentenced to jail wrongfully.

A youth centre for up to 100 youngsters is to open up across the street from the shopping centre. Many people in the city complain that this is disrespectful. Those who lost family in the shopping centre attack in particular claim it is offensive.


----------



## Stalin (Aug 14, 2010)

If you seriously think harmless muslims are in the minorty and this mosque is a celebration of terrorism or whatever, you are mentally challenged and need a caretaker.


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## Mist Beauty (Aug 14, 2010)

Some people will never learn. In the end, the sheep will bleat, but the Ebony Emperor has spoken. All you can do is slow the discourse, but eventually the tide will crash in 300 km/hr. Wat you gonna do? You gonna do nothing, you gonna cry~



I hope _someone_ gets that


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## maj1n (Aug 14, 2010)

Esponer said:


> maj1n. I thought of a better analogy.
> 
> A major metropolitan area has a population of male youngsters approaching 1,000,000. One of them (0.0001%) makes a bomb and detonates it in a shopping centre, killing 150 (3000/20).
> 
> ...


Your analogy doesn't make sense.

What does the 'war' against youths have to do with anything? if we say the youth bombing = the Islamic terrorists, what does the war have to do with anything?

Do the victims of 9/11, the families, did they ever, even once, bring into account in their grievance, the Iraq war? no.

lastly, Islam has a reputation as being linked with Islamic terrorism, not coincidentally either, now for your analogy to really work, you'd have to basically say it is reasonable to attribute 'youth' as a cause of...that bombing example.

That reasonably, people would associate 'youth' with terrorism.

I don't think thats reasonable, and you can try and bring up a real-life example of someone attributing 'youth' to terrorism, only then i'll consider your analogy.

If it was reasonable, understandable and expected to attribute 'youth' to terrorism, i would agree with your analogy.

If the 'youth' bombed the shit out of people in the name of.....'youth' then your analogy might make some sense, i don't recall this ever being done either.


----------



## Esponer (Aug 14, 2010)

Do you not live in a place where there's a strong attitude that male youngsters are violent and can't be trusted? I do. That was my connection there.

Your idea that it has to be "reasonable [and] understandable" attribution isn't one I agree with, though. There's nothing reasonable and understandable about looking at your average Muslim and associating them with terrorism. It's about on the same level as looking at a male youth and expecting them to knife you on the street or gun down their school.

The 'war' is something of an aside. I think it's important to keep the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan in view during this topic. It's not irrelevant. It matters, for instance, that throughout the entire ordeal (from 2001 to now), about 97% of the innocent dead have been Muslims.


----------



## Mist Beauty (Aug 14, 2010)

All of that fluff to debate about an analogy  Substance > style. There has to be something meaty behind the simile and metaphor. Fact is fact. 

As soon as we try to drop the simile and simply to state the facts which stand behind it, we find that there as no such facts.  And so, what at first appeared to be a simile now seems to be mere nonsense.

No one needs to justify anything with (barely any are Muslim). It is true. All the terrorists were male, male only urinals are offensive to Ground Zero. lulzy, but the fact remains that the angry are just snobs, forcing their opinion under the guise of righteous indignation. 

One thing which sets American apart from the rest is religious tolerance. The building is far away from G0. Muslims have a right. Feeling offensive is just the spawn of fearmongering and steorotyping. The arguments have been made, and the arguments have been glossed over.

Still offended?

Say that to the Indians...


----------



## maj1n (Aug 14, 2010)

Esponer said:


> Do you not live in a place where there's a strong attitude that male youngsters are violent and can't be trusted? I do. That was my connection there.
> 
> Your idea that it has to be "reasonable [and] understandable" attribution isn't one I agree with, though. There's nothing reasonable and understandable about looking at your average Muslim and associating them with terrorism. It's about on the same level as looking at a male youth and expecting them to knife you on the street or gun down their school.
> 
> The 'war' is something of an aside. I think it's important to keep the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan in view during this topic. It's not irrelevant. It matters, for instance, that throughout the entire ordeal (from 2001 to now), about 97% of the innocent dead have been Muslims.


I have never, once, saw a demonstration against 'youth' on account of 'youth'.

If you want me to take your analogy seriously, then give me a real life example of 'youth' being targeted as a cause of terrorism.

No one is associating Muslims with terrorism, the families of those who died in 9/11 simply don't want a mosque (as a symbol of Islam) to remind them of the Islamic terrorists killing their loved ones.

Your argument is dangerously coming close to saying that you consider the family of those who died in 9/11 are accusing Muslims of being terrorists.

I will give you a totally exact analogy.

The American Government *secretly* nuked Australia outside the knowledge of American public.

America finds this out 2 years later.

Americans want to erect a flag 4 years later on that spot.

If some families of those who died in the nuke blast, asked them not to display the flag, i would hope they do the decent thing and not display an American flag.

The grievance of these families is due to them losing a loved one, it quite sickens me that most people  (such as yourself) try to turn that into an accusation against Muslims.

*It is plainly evident, that for most people, the political issue of Islam/Muslim vs West, is more important then the suffering these families have to endure every day that their loved one is no longer in this world, and how to help them cope with it*


----------



## Petenshi (Aug 14, 2010)

maj1n said:


> No one is associating Muslims with terrorism, the families of those who died in 9/11 simply don't want a mosque (as a symbol of Islam) to remind them of the Islamic terrorists killing their loved ones.



Can you say, Contradiction?


----------



## maj1n (Aug 14, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> Can you say, Contradiction?


Are you seriously accusing the families of the victims of 9/11, when they don't wish this mosque to be built because it reminds them of the Islamic terrorists, are you seriously accusing them of being prejudiced against Muslims?

Son, i support freedom of speech, but seriously you go way over the fucking line.


----------



## Petenshi (Aug 14, 2010)

maj1n said:


> Are you seriously accusing the families of the victims of 9/11, when they don't wish this mosque to be built because it reminds them of the Islamic terrorists, are you seriously accusing them of being prejudiced against Muslims?
> 
> Son, i support freedom of speech, but seriously you go way over the fucking line.



Yes, I am. If the Mosque reminds them of terrorism, because we both agree that is not what it stands for, that is exactly what they are doing.


----------



## maj1n (Aug 14, 2010)

maj1n said:
			
		

> *Are you seriously accusing the families of the victims of 9/11, when they don't wish this mosque to be built because it reminds them of the Islamic terrorists, are you seriously accusing them of being prejudiced against Muslims?*
> 
> Son, i support freedom of speech, but seriously you go way over the fucking line.
> 
> ...


All i needed to hear.


----------



## Petenshi (Aug 14, 2010)

maj1n said:


> All i needed to hear.



Good, so I assume that you see judging people for something they didn't do is wrong. I am glad you are on our side now Maj1n.


----------



## maj1n (Aug 14, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> Good, so I assume that you see judging people for something they didn't do is wrong. I am glad you are on our side now Maj1n.


No, i see you accusing (and admitting you do) that the families of those who lost their loved ones in 9/11, as thinking all muslims as terrorists.

All because they say they wish the Mosque not be built as it reminds them of that painful day.



			
				maj1n said:
			
		

> Are you seriously accusing the families of the victims of 9/11, when they don't wish this mosque to be built because it reminds them of the Islamic terrorists, are you seriously accusing them of being prejudiced against Muslims?
> 
> Son, i support freedom of speech, but seriously you go way over the fucking line.
> 
> ...



Here's a letter from a Muslim who's mother died in 9/11.
_
On the day I left Ground Zero shortly after the tragedy, I felt that I was abandoning my mother. It was like being forced to leave the bedside of a loved one who is dying, knowing you will never see her again. But I felt the love and respect of all those around me there, and it reassured me that she was being left in good hands. Since I cannot visit New York as often as I would like, I at least want to know that my mother can rest in peace.

I do not like harboring resentment or anger, but I do not want the death of my mother -- my best friend, my hero, my strength, my love -- to become even more politicized than it already is. To the supporters of this new Islamic cultural center, I must ask: Build your ideological monument somewhere else, far from my mother's grave, and let her rest. _
-http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/06/AR2010080603006.html


Thanks for accusing her of being prejudiced against her fellow Muslims, when all she wants is to grieve for her mother without any more pain.

You fucking sicken me.


----------



## hammer (Aug 14, 2010)

holy shit 13 pages allready?


----------



## Petenshi (Aug 14, 2010)

maj1n said:


> No, i see you accusing (and admitting you do) that the families of those who lost their loved ones in 9/11, as thinking all muslims as terrorists.
> 
> All because they say they wish the Mosque not be built as it reminds them of that painful day.



. Why can't you see that it shouldn't remind them of the loss of their family unless they are associating the mosque with terrorism and the attack on the WTC? I am not saying they are doing it on purpose, but that isn't what you asked me, is it?

Stop taking everything so personally. That letter has nothing to with anything. Is she against the Mosque? If not, then she isn't included.


----------



## maj1n (Aug 14, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> . Why can't you see that it shouldn't remind them of the loss of their family unless they are associating the mosque with terrorism and the attack on the WTC? I am not saying they are doing it on purpose, but that isn't what you asked me, is it?
> 
> Stop taking everything so personally. That letter has nothing to with anything. Is she against the Mosque? If not, then she isn't included.


I have posted letters of those who lost loved ones in 9/11, expressing their views, none of the letters mention targetting muslims as extremists.

*the letter i supplied is from a Muslim whom lost her mother in 9/11, she does not like the mosque*

_On the day I left Ground Zero shortly after the tragedy, I felt that I was abandoning my mother. It was like being forced to leave the bedside of a loved one who is dying, knowing you will never see her again. But I felt the love and respect of all those around me there, and it reassured me that she was being left in good hands. Since I cannot visit New York as often as I would like, I at least want to know that my mother can rest in peace.

I do not like harboring resentment or anger, but I do not want the death of my mother -- my best friend, my hero, my strength, my love -- to become even more politicized than it already is. To the supporters of this new Islamic cultural center, I must ask: Build your ideological monument somewhere else, far from my mother's grave, and let her rest._
-http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/06/AR2010080603006.html

What the fuck is wrong with you son, not only did you accuse those family members who lost loved ones and don't want the mosque to keep reminding them of that day, of being prejudiced against Muslims.

as shown from your words.



			
				maj1n said:
			
		

> Are you seriously accusing the families of the victims of 9/11, when they don't wish this mosque to be built because it reminds them of the Islamic terrorists, are you seriously accusing them of being prejudiced against Muslims?
> 
> Son, i support freedom of speech, but seriously you go way over the fucking line.
> 
> ...



Now your fucking dictating what they should or should not consider to remind them of the loss of their loved ones.

If you had any godam decency, you would look yourself in the fucking mirror and be ashamed.


----------



## Petenshi (Aug 14, 2010)

Sorry, Maj1n. Until you calm down our debate is over. I am not going to waste my time on someone who can't control himself nor refrain to post worthless letters from people at the mosque that only continue to prove my point.

Its sad that you think I am the sick one.


----------



## vegitabo (Aug 14, 2010)

maj1n said:


> No, i see you accusing (and admitting you do) that the families of those who lost their loved ones in 9/11, as thinking all muslims as terrorists.
> 
> All because they say they wish the Mosque not be built as it reminds them of that painful day.
> 
> ...



how can you grieve without pain? The problem here is the misconception the government and the media has implanted upon the american public: Islam = terrorism and Muslims = terrorists. It is much easier to centralize blame upon a group of people especially ones with very different opinions. Think of all the time when some disaster happens and people want to know who single handedly is responsible, take the BP oil spill for example. Also, Bush needed support for the war, and it was major propaganda. Also, quoting from one Muslim doesn't say much. Also, how is her mother being politicized? 99.9% of the population have no idea of the names of the people that died that day. It's just statistics.


----------



## maj1n (Aug 14, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> Sorry, Maj1n. Until you calm down our debate is over.


Your lack of rebuttal is noted.

Next time, i suggest you don't ever accuse the families of 9/11 to be prejudiced against Muslims, trying to turn their suffering into your little Islam/muslim vs west issue is just pathetic.



			
				vegitabo said:
			
		

> how can you grieve without pain? The problem here is the misconception the government and the media has implanted upon the american public: Islam = terrorism and Muslims = terrorists. It is much easier to centralize blame upon a group of people especially ones with very different opinions. Think of all the time when some disaster happens and people want to know who single handedly is responsible, take the BP oil spill for example. Also, Bush needed support for the war, and it was major propaganda. *Also, quoting from one Muslim doesn't say much. *Also, how is her mother being politicized? 99.9% of the population have no idea of the names of the people that died that day. It's just statistics.


Not a single family of the victims of 9/11 accuse Muslims of being terrorists.

Many go out of their way to clarify even in their opposition of the mosque, they don't think Muslims are terrorists in general.

The problem, is people like you looking at this issue and not even listening to what the other side say's.

You see 'some people object to mosque' = 'people hate Muslims'.

You have to remember, your perspective is a knee-jerk reaction, and you never even tried to understand the other side.

No issue can be solved without a least trying to understanding people.

I want you to pay attention to the bolded, a Muslim who's mother died in 9/11 objects to the mosque, she gives her perspective on it.

You disregard it completely, you don't even listen to her and rebut her , you actually refuse to acknowledge what she says.


----------



## vegitabo (Aug 14, 2010)

maj1n said:


> Your lack of rebuttal is noted.
> 
> Next time, i suggest you don't ever accuse the families of 9/11 to be prejudiced against Muslims, trying to turn their suffering into your little Islam/muslim vs west issue is just pathetic.
> 
> ...



You must be ignorant if you don't think there is hate in the United States towards Muslims. You must be ignorant if you don't think objection towards mosque is based on the negative view of muslims in the US.And how do you know what the families feels towards the Muslims. There isn't a comprehensive report by each family on what and how they felt about the attack. And I definitely now what the other side is thinking. What you want is for the people supporting the building of the mosque to back off. I understand but I don't agree. I don't agree the feeling of the few should trump over an ideology the country was build upon.


----------



## Petenshi (Aug 14, 2010)

maj1n said:


> Your lack of rebuttal is noted.
> 
> Next time, i suggest you don't ever accuse the families of 9/11 to be prejudiced against Muslims, trying to turn their suffering into your little Islam/muslim vs west issue is just pathetic.
> 
> ...



Hey look, you calmed down. I appreciate that maj1n.

Maj1n. Lets go through this step by step.

*This is your stance as I see it:

1) You say that no one is being prejudiced against Muslims or this Mosque for the sake of it being a Mosque.

2) You say The mosque represents the loss and pain of their loved one and that the Mosque should be moved.*

If it really truly does have nothing to do with it being a mosque or the WTC attacks, then why does the Mosque have to move rather than the people not going to that area? This is not fair to the Mosque builders, and no other time in history for any other event or faction was this much reaction caused over it.

If you are drinking alcohol, and I dislike alcohol because it reminds me of my fathers death from liver failure, should you have to stop drinking alcohol?


----------



## maj1n (Aug 14, 2010)

vegitabo said:


> You must be ignorant if you don't think there is hate in the United States towards Muslims. You must be ignorant if you don't think objection towards mosque is based on the negative view of muslims in the US.And *how do you know what the families feels towards the Muslims*. There isn't a comprehensive report by each family on what and how they felt about the attack. And I definitely now what the other side is thinking. What you want is for the people supporting the building of the mosque to back off. I understand but I don't agree. I don't agree the feeling of the few should trump over an ideology the country was build upon.


Because many families have written letters about it, there are organizations devoted to these families and i have gone to their websites and read what they feel.

You pretty much prove what i have been saying all along.

You never tried to understand the other side, you simply *assume* that the other side is being prejudiced, all you are doing is assuming a group of people are bad.

Which btw is prejudice.


----------



## maj1n (Aug 14, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> Hey look, you calmed down. I appreciate that maj1n.
> 
> Maj1n. Lets go through this step by step.
> 
> ...


TO clarify your number 2, i would say it reminds them of their loss and pain.



			
				Petenshi said:
			
		

> If it really truly does have nothing to do with it being a mosque or the WTC attacks, then why does the Mosque have to move rather than the people not going to that area? This is not fair to the Mosque builders, and no other time in history for any other event or faction was this much reaction caused over it.


We don't know if it has 'nothing to do' with the mosque, merely we cannot state it does atm.

There are very valid concerns of the mosque in general, its funding, its Muslim leadership (of which espouses support of Sharia law), who also support Hamas.

Even your 'not being fair' to the mosque builders is not true, as the prominent mosque builder supports sharia law, amongst other things.

And i definitely believe sharia law promotes Islamic terrorism.



			
				Petenshi said:
			
		

> If you are drinking alcohol, and I dislike alcohol because it reminds me of my fathers death from liver failure, should you have to stop drinking alcohol?


If you were grief stricken with the loss of your father and you feel strongly against alcohol as it caused this (or you believe alcohol is bad).

And i am drinking at your fathers funeral.

If you ask me to stop, i will stop.


----------



## vegitabo (Aug 14, 2010)

maj1n said:


> Because many families have written letters about it, there are organizations devoted to these families and i have gone to their websites and read what they feel.
> 
> You pretty much prove what i have been saying all along.
> 
> ...



The majority of the families have written letters about it or posted on websites about it? I doubt it. I just want 5% proof on this. I want to see the 150 or so letters or website responses.
And seriously, are you trying to troll here? I'm assuming a group of people are bad? Where have I said that? Wow, please calm down and actually read what I'm saying.


----------



## hammer (Aug 14, 2010)

vegitabo said:


> The majority of the families have written letters about it or posted on websites about it? I doubt it. I just want 5% proof on this. I want to see the 150 or so letters or website responses.
> And seriously, are you trying to troll here? I'm assuming a group of people are bad? Where have I said that? Wow, please calm down and actually read what I'm saying.



I like how hes saying your the one assuming the group is bad considering the stance you two hold.


----------



## maj1n (Aug 14, 2010)

vegitabo said:


> The majority of the families have written letters about it or posted on websites about it? I doubt it. I just want 5% proof on this. I want to see the 150 or so letters or website responses.
> And seriously, are you trying to troll here? I'm assuming a group of people are bad? Where have I said that? Wow, please calm down and actually read what I'm saying.


The majority of families? please don't try a pathetic statistics argument, i could very well ask you to prove this statement with statistics



			
				vegitabo said:
			
		

> You must be ignorant if you don't think objection towards mosque is based on the negative view of muslims in the US.


Can you give me a majority statistic of negative view of muslims in US correlating with objection to mosque?



			
				vegitabo said:
			
		

> And seriously, are you trying to troll here? I'm assuming a group of people are bad? Where have I said that? Wow, please calm down and actually read what I'm saying.


You do when you assume their behaviour is based on prejudice when you don't listen to them, and even outright refuse to listen to them.

The fact you continue to dismiss written letters from families of victims of 9/11 to their objection to the mosque, is proof of that.

You don't even try to acknowledge what they say, even if you disagree with it.


----------



## vegitabo (Aug 14, 2010)

maj1n said:


> The majority of families? please don't try a pathetic statistics argument, i could very well ask you to prove this statement with statistics
> 
> 
> Can you give me a majority statistic of negative view of muslims in US correlating with objection to mosque?
> ...



I'm dismissing the letters of the families when you haven't even shown proof of it? I just wanted 5%... Ok, I'm go down to 2%, show me 60 letters. And statistics about the mosque isn't up yet cause this is a new event but it sure well be. Follow some of the news channels in the near future. And where do you live cause it sure ain't the US by what I'm hearing. And what does the bold even mean? Who am I not listening to? And I do listen like I said before, but I don't agree. Listening /= agreeing. And since you haven't given me any proof, your last line is just retarded.


----------



## Badass SnoCone (Aug 14, 2010)

"HELL NO, WE WON'T LISTEN TO YOU! We don't care about your 'feelings' and your 'pain' and how you feel 'hurt', you racist, Glen Beck-hugging, Sarah Palin-fapping bigots. The mosque isn't hurting anybody we have to give a shit about. So it should stay there because it's the most understanding, peaceful, and right thing to do."


----------



## hammer (Aug 14, 2010)

how many tiems must I say islam is not a race?


----------



## maj1n (Aug 14, 2010)

vegitabo said:


> *I'm dismissing the letters of the families when you haven't even shown proof of it? I* just wanted 5%... Ok, I'm go down to 2%, show me 60 letters. And statistics about the mosque isn't up yet cause this is a new event but it sure well be. Follow some of the news channels in the near future. And where do you live cause it sure ain't the US by what I'm hearing. And what does the bold even mean? Who am I not listening to? And I do listen like I said before, but I don't agree. Listening /= agreeing. And since you haven't given me any proof, your last line is just retarded.


The fact you dismiss my argument because of a 'lack' of statistics, but continue to support your own views when you lack statistics, is pretty much proof of your double-standard.

I have posted letters of viewpoints of families of 9/11 who oppose the mosque, not a single one of them espouses hatred to Muslims.

Saying you want '5%' is just an arbitrary argument, what does '5%' have to do with anything, does 5% make an argument right? or 10?

I'm an ex-Muslim btw with Muslim family members if you want to know.

And they share my viewpoint that they'd rather the mosque not be built since that would unnecessarily bring pain to the families of 9/11 victims.


----------



## vegitabo (Aug 14, 2010)

maj1n said:


> The fact you dismiss my argument because of a 'lack' of statistics, but continue to support your own views when you lack statistics, is pretty much proof of your double-standard.
> 
> I have posted letters of viewpoints of families of 9/11 who oppose the mosque, not a single one of them espouses hatred to Muslims.
> 
> ...



? Where have you posted? At least show me more than that one from the muslim girl. The 5% is to show that a few families might have done what you said, but a majority of them didn't. Btw, how can you really ask for statistics on what I said. If I was wrong, then the mosque would have been built already. sigh... And why do I care if you are ex-muslim? It just makes you sound worse then you are right now since you most likely have something against muslims or their religion...

I want to switch to ignorant  then I can post all the shit I want. btw, no offense to you maj1n.  just commenting to badasssnowcone or w/e his name is


----------



## Mist Beauty (Aug 14, 2010)

Majinbuu is just posting for the +1. He is immune to logic. Who's with me?


----------



## Stalin (Aug 14, 2010)

I am with you.


----------



## EvilMoogle (Aug 14, 2010)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> *They should build a Church and Temple by Ground Zero as well. I think it'd send a nice message. *





You're joking, right?


Here's a hint, one of the streets that runs by the WTC Plaza is "Church Street."


Nearest one is a whole block away 

I don't think either group will be terribly threatened by the presence of a Mosque.


----------



## Badass SnoCone (Aug 14, 2010)

vegitabo said:


> I want to switch to ignorant  then I can post all the shit I want. btw, no offense to you maj1n.  just commenting to badasssnowcone or w/e his name is




I want to switch to person that doesn't give a shit. No offense to you, just commenting on you. Ohwait.

The only ignorant people are the people that don't care about the feelings of the many people hurt by the attacks on 9/11.
The ignorant people are the ones that think like this:



Elim Rawne said:


> Fuck that shit.
> Fuck 9/11
> Fuck the victims
> and fuck their families



And it seems like there are LOTS of people who have that mindset.


----------



## aquis45 (Aug 14, 2010)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjS0Novt3X4[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## vegitabo (Aug 14, 2010)

Badass SnoCone said:


> I want to switch to person that doesn't give a shit. No offense to you, just commenting on you. Ohwait.
> 
> The only ignorant people are the people that don't care about the feelings of the many people hurt by the attacks on 9/11.
> The ignorant people are the ones that think like this:
> ...



you dumbass >.> I used u as a scapegoat... if you get what I'm saying...


----------



## Badass SnoCone (Aug 14, 2010)

vegitabo said:


> you dumbass >.> I used u as a scapegoat... if you get what I'm saying...



I know. I did that too.




*Spoiler*: __ 




*Spoiler*: __ 




*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Tleilaxu (Aug 15, 2010)

Elim Rawne said:


> Fuck 9/11
> Fuck the victims and their families



Fuck Islam
Fuck their feelings and their sensibilities.

Yeah I can do it too


----------



## Elim Rawne (Aug 15, 2010)

Tleilaxu said:


> Fuck Islam
> Fuck their feelings and their sensibilities.
> 
> Yeah I can do it too



Go right ahead, considering I'm an atheist, don't give a flying fuck about that


----------



## Мoon (Aug 15, 2010)

Saying Muslim is wrong  is pretty much saying any religion is wrong. Its a belief system. you don't like it, then quit crying and ignore it. you don't have a right to say you can't believe in things..damn. If they gladly accept Athiests, why not accept Muslims.


----------



## Daminous Misfortune (Aug 15, 2010)

I say it is offensive...might will cause some a lot of riots...


----------



## aquis45 (Aug 15, 2010)

Che said:


> Saying Muslim is wrong  is pretty much saying any religion is wrong. Its a belief system. you don't like it, then quit crying and ignore it. you don't have a right to say you can't believe in things..damn. If they gladly accept Athiests, why not accept Muslims.



I think they are more concerned by actions than beliefs. But then again said beliefs fuel those actions. You don't see Buddhists going around pushing their beliefs on others with violence.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Aug 15, 2010)

aquis45 said:


> I think they are more concerned by actions than beliefs. But then again said beliefs fuel those actions. You don't see Buddhists going around pushing their beliefs on others with violence.



If that's the case, I hope they are aware of the Christian extremists right across the Atlantic in Africa, and the heavy handed influence televangelists have in those places.


----------



## Bleach (Aug 15, 2010)

Good thing to know that the President is sensible.


----------



## Taco (Aug 15, 2010)

aquis45 said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjS0Novt3X4[/YOUTUBE]



I suggest everyone watch this.. But they're opening on 9/11 next year? Did he misread?


----------



## uchia2000 (Aug 15, 2010)

Forbidden Truth said:


> I suggest everyone watch this.. But they're opening on 9/11 next year? Did he misread?



No it's just a common lie that is being spread around by the opposition. The official site of the project says that there is no specific opening date yet. (they haven't even gotten all the funds yet)


----------



## Toby (Aug 15, 2010)

Elim Rawne said:


> Silly Tobias, you think the denizens of this cesspool will actually educate themselves ?



It's hilarious because a recent court decision recently sounded the following:

"Fundamental rights may not be submitted to a vote; they depend on the outcome of no elections."

I enjoy this controversy because it is a meaningless discussion with no impact on what will happen. There's going to be a mosque, and that's it. It's a silly issue like many others which Americans claim matter, but which in hindsight never really do play a significant role at all.


----------



## LovesCreed (Aug 15, 2010)

You can do it doesnt mean that you should do it. Big diff. 


Anyway, if the Muslim community claims that they are trying to make peace by doing this, they should stop. They are dividing the country. The signals that they are giving out is wrong. They might cause more hate. They builders knew that this was going to happen, they continued anyway. Shows something...

Yes, America should protect fundamental rights. Yes, America should tolerate other religions. Yes, America should allow the building of the mosque. Legally, building the mosque is absolutely right. But morally...

Cheers!~


----------



## Botzu (Aug 15, 2010)

Isn't there already a mosque near ground zero? One built before 9/11. Either way, I pretty much resent all the arguments that we shouldn't do this because it might cause violence. Thats pretty much giving in to ignorant people who use violence to solve their problems. Why are we so willing to bend over backwards for people that threaten to hurt others to get what they want? Its just sending a message that threatening violence works.


----------



## aquis45 (Aug 15, 2010)

Seto Kaiba said:


> If that's the case, I hope they are aware of the Christian extremists right across the Atlantic in Africa, and the heavy handed influence televangelists have in those places.



So if some of those Christian extremists razed an entire village and they were planning some sort of memorial site. And some other group showed up with plans to build a nice big church next to it. Would that be considered in good taste?





> Do they not understand that building a mosque at Ground Zero is equivalent to permitting a Serbian Orthodox church near the killing fields of Srebrenica where 8,000 Muslim men and boys were slaughtered?


----------



## Mael (Aug 15, 2010)

This mosque better have the Mecca Rec Room, a ball bin, and a smoothie bar.


----------



## hammer (Aug 15, 2010)

damn right mael


and bacon


----------



## aquis45 (Aug 15, 2010)

Mael said:


> This mosque better have the Mecca Rec Room, a ball bin, and a smoothie bar.



What would it matter to you? You aren't allowed in since you aren't Muslim right?


----------



## hammer (Aug 15, 2010)

aquis45 said:


> What would it matter to you? You aren't allowed in since you aren't Muslim right?



no, we are allowed in


----------



## aquis45 (Aug 15, 2010)

hammer said:


> no, we are allowed in



Looked it up. Non-Muslims are banned entry in the more strict countries. But it looks like it is a standard that non-Muslims are not allowed to sleep or eat in said mosque. So no smoothie (or bacon) for you. Also, the Koran itself says pagans cannot enter.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Aug 15, 2010)

aquis45 said:


> Looked it up. Non-Muslims are banned entry in the more strict countries. But it looks like it is a standard that non-Muslims are not allowed to sleep or eat in said mosque. So no smoothie (or bacon) for you. Also, the Koran itself says pagans cannot enter.



It's a good thing that only a small portion of that building is a mosque


----------



## -= Ziggy Stardust =- (Aug 15, 2010)

aquis45 said:


> Looked it up. Non-Muslims are banned entry in the more strict countries. But it looks like it is a standard that non-Muslims are not allowed to sleep or eat in said mosque. So no smoothie (or bacon) for you. Also, the Koran itself says pagans cannot enter.



Are muslims themselves allowed to eat and sleep in a mosque?


----------



## aquis45 (Aug 15, 2010)

-= Ziggy Stardust =- said:


> Are muslims themselves allowed to eat and sleep in a mosque?



Prayer marathon.


----------



## C_Akutabi (Aug 15, 2010)

aquis45 said:


> Looked it up. Non-Muslims are banned entry in the more strict countries. But it looks like it is a standard that non-Muslims are not allowed to sleep or eat in said mosque. So no smoothie (or bacon) for you. Also, the Koran itself says pagans cannot enter.





And even if I read it wrong, the rest of the stuff on that list is open to the general public. 

So there's still hope for the smoothie bar :33


----------



## Raiden (Aug 15, 2010)

Bleach said:


> Good thing to know that the President is sensible.



My thoughts exactly.


----------



## Darth (Aug 16, 2010)

-= Ziggy Stardust =- said:


> Are muslims themselves allowed to eat and sleep in a mosque?



I've done it multiple times.

I actually had more fun than I did pray. 

Good times. Good people.


----------



## siyrean (Aug 16, 2010)

I get it, I finally get it. The people behind the mosque are working to change Americans views on Muslims from thinking they're all terrorists to thinking they're all assholes. It finally makes sense.

 Don't hate Islam, hate assholes.


----------



## -= Ziggy Stardust =- (Aug 16, 2010)

siyrean said:


> I get it, I finally get it. The people behind the mosque are working to change Americans views on Muslims from thinking they're all terrorists to thinking they're all assholes. It finally makes sense.
> 
> Don't hate Islam, hate assholes.



Good, now do you want a cookie with that and pat on the back?


----------



## siyrean (Aug 16, 2010)

Naw, just for the assumption that those against them mosque are anti Muslim, to die.


----------



## Chibibaki (Aug 16, 2010)

siyrean said:


> I get it, I finally get it. The people behind the mosque are working to change Americans views on Muslims from thinking they're all terrorists to thinking they're all assholes. It finally makes sense.
> 
> Don't hate Islam, hate assholes.



You have no idea what kind of people are funding this mosque do you? These guys arent all love and flowers.


----------



## Mael (Aug 16, 2010)

My only concern is the Saudi connection.  Saudis are notoriously Wahhabi and have pushed their unwelcome wares from Pakistan to Kosovo to here in the States.


----------



## Mizura (Aug 16, 2010)

Yay for generalizations.

[generalization]The people responsible for 9/11 were religious. Let's ban all religious structures/symbols/people from New York.[/generalization]

Hey, it's not that much more far-fetched than saying that muslims as a whole were responsible for 9/11. Should we hold Christian Americans accountable for such niceties as the crusades and witch-hunts?


----------



## Mael (Aug 16, 2010)

Mizura said:


> Yay for generalizations.
> 
> [generalization]The people responsible for 9/11 were religious. Let's ban all religious structures/symbols/people from New York.[/generalization]
> 
> Hey, it's not that much more far-fetched than saying that muslims as a whole were responsible for 9/11. Should we hold Christian Americans accountable for such niceties as the crusades and witch-hunts?



Only the ignorant think the generalization. 

However, Saudi funding has usually leaned towards Wahhabi teachings.  Despite being "allies" of the US, the Saudis carry a fervent Sunni fundamentalism that fuels extremism in the truly retarded.  This was horrendously apparent in Kosovo.


----------



## Seisokumaru (Aug 16, 2010)

Mizura said:


> Yay for generalizations.
> 
> [generalization]The people responsible for 9/11 were religious. Let's ban all religious structures/symbols/people from New York.[/generalization]
> 
> Hey, it's not that much more far-fetched than saying that muslims as a whole were responsible for 9/11. Should we hold Christian Americans accountable for such niceties as the crusades and witch-hunts?



The difference is not the group-identification involved, the difference is that one happened 10 years ago and one happened centuries ago.  Try to imagine why the feelings from one are a bit...  rawer, than the feelings from something that no one living was witness to, at a remove of several generations.

I mean, jeez, from 1004 to 1013 A.D., Mahmud Ghaznavi raped, pillaged and looted his way through India.  Let's hold Islam responsible for that...  oh wait, let's not bother because it happened in ancient fucking history.  Let's hold people accountable for stuff they did while they're alive, not after their ancestors bones have turned to dust.

At least , I mean, it's a tough thing when the president of the US is on the record agreeing with  instead of the majority of his own country.  But hey, at least his compass can show him which way the wind is blowing quickly enough for him to change his mind.


----------



## Zhariel (Aug 16, 2010)

Tea Party Party, they will have a field day.


----------



## Mael (Aug 16, 2010)

Caelus said:


> Tea Party Party, they will have a field day.



They already have.  Read the OP quotes about monkey god.


----------



## uchia2000 (Aug 16, 2010)

Chibibaki said:


> You have no idea what kind of people are funding this mosque do you? These guys arent all love and flowers.


They haven't started their campaign yet but this is what they had to say.



> We have not yet launched our fundraising campaign. Park51 will incorporate as a non-profit and seek federal tax-exempt status. We are pledging to pursue this fundraising campaign in accordance with all applicable laws and regulations. We have hired legal counsel and top-notch auditors to oversee this process from start to finish.
> 
> We will hire security consultants to assist us in the process of reviewing potential financiers and philanthropists as we begin to establish our fundraising strategy. We will refuse assistance, financial or otherwise, from any persons or institutions who are flagged by our security consultants or any government agencies.


----------



## Seisokumaru (Aug 16, 2010)

uchia2000 said:


> They haven't started their campaign yet but this is what they had to say.



If you trust everything marketing and PR people write, then

BILLY MAYS here for Oxi-Clean....

Let independent (really independent) investigators audit the money trail after it's all arranged and in place, and let's see how innocent and peace-loving the funding behind this thing really is.


----------



## EvilMoogle (Aug 16, 2010)

^ Guilty until proven innocent is the American way after all


----------



## Seisokumaru (Aug 16, 2010)

EvilMoogle said:


> ^ Guilty until proven innocent is the American way after all



No one is saying or implying that a crime is being committed here.  Nice try.

When we're talking about a criminal legal case, then maybe your comment will be relevant.


----------



## uchia2000 (Aug 16, 2010)

Seisokumaru said:


> If you trust everything marketing and PR people write, then
> 
> BILLY MAYS here for Oxi-Clean....
> 
> Let independent (really independent) investigators audit the money trail after it's all arranged and in place, and let's see how innocent and peace-loving the funding behind this thing really is.


If they wanted to keep their transactions away from the public they could very easily do so. When you say investigators do you mean the government? Because unless they are receiving money from an illegal source they really have no business revealing that information to the public without their consent am I right? (they referring to the government)


----------



## Seisokumaru (Aug 16, 2010)

uchia2000 said:


> If they wanted to keep their transactions away from the public they could very easily do so. When you say investigators do you mean the government? Because unless they are receiving money from an illegal source they really have no business revealing that information to the public without their consent am I right? (they referring to the government)



Believe me there is no circumstance possible the scope of human experience where I will believe the government is a good independent investigator, have no fear.  There are private auditing firms that do that sort of thing on request.

Do you know what step #1 to hiding money is?  Create a legitimate 'front' so that you can explain why you have so much money.  Not saying that's happening here, but your argument kind of neglects that saying that the piles of money in your basement are from a good, legitimate source is a very important step to dealing with money of the other sort.


----------



## Dark Uchiha (Aug 16, 2010)

people with a problem with this, have a feeling of tieing muslim extremist with all muslims.

People need to ask themselves the question of why do they have a problem with this.
The answer stems from, muslim extremist hit the twin towers.
So the reasoning is _anything_ muslim built *near*, where the towers used to stand is *deemed a problem*.

Even though on that day people of many religions died at the wtc when it was hit.
sad reaction in American history it is, really sad time.. Atleast it hasnt reach Japanese interment camp status yet.

But atleast the xenophobia is at a good marinating status.


----------



## Keile (Aug 16, 2010)

Seisokumaru said:


> At least , I mean, it's a tough thing when the president of the US is on the record agreeing with  instead of the majority of his own country.  But hey, at least his compass can show him which way the wind is blowing quickly enough for him to change his mind.



Obama hasn't backtracked one bit. Can you read?


----------



## ximkoyra (Aug 16, 2010)

I wonder how many people know that this Park51 place has been used for religious purposes for the last year or so?  

These guys are trying to build a community center in addition to giving themselves a larger prayer space so that it can serve everybody in lower Manhattan instead of just Muslims.  If the construction somehow gets rejected, then Muslims will just continue to pray there like they have for the last year or so.


----------



## -= Ziggy Stardust =- (Aug 16, 2010)

Seisokumaru said:


> The difference is not the group-identification involved, the difference is that one happened 10 years ago and one happened centuries ago.  Try to imagine why the feelings from one are a bit...  rawer, than the feelings from something that no one living was witness to, at a remove of several generations.
> 
> I mean, jeez, from 1004 to 1013 A.D., Mahmud Ghaznavi raped, pillaged and looted his way through India.  Let's hold Islam responsible for that...  oh wait, let's not bother because it happened in ancient fucking history.  Let's hold people accountable for stuff they did while they're alive, not after their ancestors bones have turned to dust.
> 
> At least , I mean, it's a tough thing when the president of the US is on the record agreeing with  instead of the majority of his own country.  But hey, at least his compass can show him which way the wind is blowing quickly enough for him to change his mind.



How did he back-track what he said?


----------



## Seisokumaru (Aug 16, 2010)

-= Ziggy Stardust =- said:


> How did he back-track what he said?



Excuse me, I believe the Liberal word for back-tracking is 'clarified'.

I should have been sympathetic to my audience and said Obama 'clarified' what he meant.


----------



## -= Ziggy Stardust =- (Aug 16, 2010)

Seisokumaru said:


> Excuse me, I believe the Liberal word for back-tracking is 'clarified'.
> 
> I should have been sympathetic to my audience and said Obama 'clarified' what he meant.


Sure it is. 

However, he just repeated what he said in the first time, and then he added he won't comment on how wise or unwise it is, which is something he didn't do in the first place.


----------



## Deleted member 174958 (Aug 16, 2010)

Come to think of it, this doesn't really surprise me. Obama can go ahead and side with this, doesn't make it okay.


----------



## Euraj (Aug 16, 2010)

Seisokumaru said:


> Excuse me, I believe the Liberal word for back-tracking is 'clarified'.
> 
> I should have been sympathetic to my audience and said Obama 'clarified' what he meant.


Hey, why don't you post some evidence? Or are you just one of those who are just basing your response to this on the title of the article without actually getting the context of the President's comments? Frankly, he hasn't contradicted himself at all. He never _defended_ the idea of the putting the community center near Ground Zero since the President of all people knows how stupid the population can be. He recognized that the people have a right to put one there, and if anyone refuses to recognize that, then they don't believe in the Bill of Rights. Plain and simple.

Looking at his countenance, I wouldn't bet against that Obama thinks the idea was dumb as Hell, but it's still their right.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Aug 16, 2010)

-= Ziggy Stardust =- said:


> Sure it is.
> 
> However, he just repeated what he said in the first time, and then he added he won't comment on how wise or unwise it is, which is something he didn't do in the first place.



pwned


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Aug 16, 2010)

Of course Obama supports it, his name is Obama. He's a terrorist.


----------



## uchia2000 (Aug 16, 2010)

Seisokumaru said:


> Believe me there is no circumstance possible the scope of human experience where I will believe the government is a good independent investigator, have no fear.  There are private auditing firms that do that sort of thing on request.
> 
> Do you know what step #1 to hiding money is?  Create a legitimate 'front' so that you can explain why you have so much money.  Not saying that's happening here, but your argument kind of neglects that saying that the piles of money in your basement are from a good, legitimate source is a very important step to dealing with money of the other sort.



Wouldn't it be illegal to go snooping in the private money affairs of a group and then publish it for the rest of the world to see? I thought only the government had that kind of authority? Anyway I personally don't have a problem with how they get the money as long as it isn't by illegal means.


----------



## Seisokumaru (Aug 16, 2010)

uchia2000 said:


> Wouldn't it be illegal to go snooping in the private money affairs of a group and then publish it for the rest of the world to see? Anyway I personally don't have a problem with how they get the money as long as it isn't by illegal means.



Yes, but organizations under public relations fire will often retain these accounting firms to audit them, and then publish the results.  It's simlar to a SAS audit or an ISO audit, where the auditor has no real vested interest in the outcome, and just puts their stamp on the company or product that says, "Yeah, this is legit".


----------



## firefist (Aug 16, 2010)

..........

check yourself, people.


----------



## uchia2000 (Aug 16, 2010)

Seisokumaru said:


> Yes, but organizations under public relations fire will often retain these accounting firms to audit them, and then publish the results.  It's simlar to a SAS audit or an ISO audit, where the auditor has no real vested interest in the outcome, and just puts their stamp on the company or product that says, "Yeah, this is legit".



That doesn't equal transparency does it? From what your saying it sounds like they don't reveal too much info and just confirm that nothing illegal is going on. For example, they wouldn't be allowed to publish the names of the donors or the amount of contribution funds would they?


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Aug 16, 2010)

Seisokumaru said:


> Excuse me, I believe the Liberal word for back-tracking is 'clarified'.
> 
> I should have been sympathetic to my audience and said Obama 'clarified' what he meant.



Or maybe you just suck at reading.


----------



## Deleted member 174958 (Aug 16, 2010)

Elim Rawne said:


> pwned



What the hell is the point in showing that picture?


----------



## vivEnergy (Aug 16, 2010)

Ishinoue said:


> What the hell is the point in showing that picture?



remembering why we troll fight everyday in the cafe


----------



## Deleted member 174958 (Aug 16, 2010)

Haha.

.......



Elim Rawne said:


> pwned



Hmm, so it's safe to say you think the Muslims killing 3,000 innocent people in the name of their dog humping god is something to say "PWNed" to? Well, you're probably Muslim so it's not a surprise.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Aug 16, 2010)

Ishinoue said:


> Haha.
> 
> .......
> 
> ...



I'm an atheist, out and proud


----------



## Deleted member 174958 (Aug 16, 2010)

Elim Rawne said:


> I'm an atheist, out and proud


So, then, you still think it's funny that 3,000 people died? Go choke on your ignorance.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Aug 16, 2010)

Ishinoue said:


> So, then, you still think it's funny that 3,000 people died? Go choke on your ignorance.



Did you know Glenn Beck RAPED AND KILLED two girls?


----------



## Deleted member 174958 (Aug 16, 2010)

Elim Rawne said:


> Did you know Glenn Beck RAPED AND KILLED two girls?


Stop avoiding the question. Do you think it's funny that 3,000 innocent people died because a group of crazies got together and flew two planes into two buildings filled with people just doing their jobs?

From your last statement, that's how it's coming off.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Aug 16, 2010)

Ishinoue said:


> Stop avoiding the question. Do you think it's funny that 3,000 innocent people died because a group of crazies got together and flew two planes into two buildings filled with people just doing their jobs?
> 
> From your last statement, that's how it's coming off.



Yeah, Glenn Beck RAPED AND KILLED two girls, have fun wearing his set


----------



## Deleted member 174958 (Aug 16, 2010)

Elim Rawne said:


> Yeah,



Yeah, as in, you think it's funny?


----------



## Elim Rawne (Aug 16, 2010)

Ishinoue said:


> Yeah, as in, you think it's funny?



Not really


----------



## vivEnergy (Aug 16, 2010)

That discussion is very deep.


----------



## Deleted member 174958 (Aug 16, 2010)

Elim Rawne said:


> Not really



Well, then, why did you post a picture of one of the towers being blown up, killing thousands, and then you said "PWNed" after it?


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Aug 16, 2010)

SO YEAH...apparently, the GOP is using this as a means to attack Obama as part of their campaign strategy. I suppose that'd be a given though.


----------



## Deleted member 174958 (Aug 16, 2010)

Seto Kaiba said:


> SO YEAH...apparently, the GOP is using this as a means to attack Obama as part of their campaign strategy. I suppose that'd be a given though.



Idiots will be idiots.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Aug 16, 2010)

Ishinoue said:


> Well, then, why did you post a picture of one of the towers being blown up, killing thousands, and then you said "PWNed" after it?



Because few other images can convey the magnitude of pwnage that happend


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Aug 16, 2010)

vivEnergy said:


> That discussion is very deep.



Look at the participants. What did you expect? 

Topic doesn't help either.


----------



## sadated_peon (Aug 16, 2010)

Ishinoue said:


> Stop avoiding the question. Do you think it's funny that 3,000 innocent people died because a group of crazies got together and flew two planes into two buildings filled with people just doing their jobs?
> 
> From your last statement, that's how it's coming off.


Do you think it is funny that over 30 million people died in WW2? they died because Hitler started war to create an empire and killed, raped and tortured millions of people?
you find that funny?

Because from you avatar, that's how it's coming off.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Aug 16, 2010)

Shinigami Perv said:


> Look at the participants. What did you expect?
> 
> Topic doesn't help either.



Yeah,screw you too buddy


----------



## -= Ziggy Stardust =- (Aug 16, 2010)

ITT: Trololololo.


----------



## Mist Beauty (Aug 16, 2010)

fioreneveDupe said:
			
		

> So, then, you still think it's funny that 3,000 people died? Go choke on your ignorance.



Strawmanning at its finest.



			
				fioreneveDupe said:
			
		

> Hmm, so it's safe to say you think the Muslims killing 3,000 innocent people in the name of *their dog humping god is something to say "PWNed" to*? Well, you're probably Muslim so it's not a surprise.



Glenn Beck is pleased with your servitude. You bring tears to his soon to be blind eyes 



eh, blind eyes comment was sort of mean, but it's Beck. He TANKS logic every day.


----------



## Deleted member 174958 (Aug 16, 2010)

> Do you think it is funny that over 30 million people died in WW2? they died because Hitler started war to create an empire and killed, raped and tortured millions of people?
> you find that funny?
> 
> Because from you avatar, that's how it's coming off.


Lmao, that's not even the same thing. And My Great Grand dad fought in WW2, genius. And Hitler was inspired my Islam just for pointers. 



> Strawmanning at its finest.


Wait, I'm "strawmanning" about 3,000 people dying? 



> Glenn Beck is pleased with your servitude. You bring tears to his soon to be blind eyes


You like the "dog-humping god" comment? 



> eh, blind eyes comment was sort of mean, but it's Beck. He TANKS logic every day.


Be honest, you don't care.


----------



## Mist Beauty (Aug 16, 2010)

Elim Rawne said:


> Yeah, Glenn Beck RAPED AND KILLED two girls, have fun wearing his set


In 1990. He is a monster. 



Ishinoue said:


> Lmao, that's not even the same thing. And My Great Grand dad fought in WW2, genius. And Hitler was inspired my Islam just for pointers.


Lol. Even better strawmanning. Islam = the holocaust. Add in some emotional appeal. For some reason you are a better person because your grandaddy fought in a war 50 years before you were born. 


> Wait, I'm "strawmanning" about 3,000 people dying?






> You like the "dog-humping god" comment?


Classy.



> Be honest, you don't care.


I care enough to say that I don't care.


----------



## sadated_peon (Aug 16, 2010)

Ishinoue said:


> Lmao, that's not even the same thing. And My Great Grand dad fought in WW2, genius. And Hitler was inspired my Islam just for pointers.


"lmao"
even more laughter at the suffering of those alive during WW2?

Why are you making fun of our veterans and dishonoring the memories of those who died fighting the Nazis?
Why are you making fun of them all, making fun of your own grand father and all others who fought in the war?


----------



## Petenshi (Aug 16, 2010)

Ishinoue said:


> Come to think of it, this doesn't really surprise me. Obama can go ahead and side with this, doesn't make it okay.



Your right, because it was already okay in the first place.


----------



## hammer (Aug 16, 2010)

Ishinoue said:


> Haha.
> 
> .......
> 
> ...



muslims jews and christians all have the same god


----------



## Deleted member 174958 (Aug 16, 2010)

You guys are so friggin' stupid it's almost not funny. Showing someone in a Military suit isn't dishonoring, not in the slightest. However, saying "PWNed" to a picture of 3,000 people dying is disgusting to say the least. 



> muslims jews and christians all have the same god


No, my God isn't associated with Muslims. 



> Classy.


Yes, I am.


----------



## Mist Beauty (Aug 16, 2010)

Update your sig. I left more witty comments on fioreneve's CP though


----------



## Deleted member 174958 (Aug 16, 2010)

just another idiot said:
			
		

> Update your sig. I left more witty comments on fioreneve's CP though



Mist Beauty, You've negged me three times... back to back. Get a life man. Your negs aren't even funny...or witty. They're just...desperate. I only put the good negs up. :3 Or, the negs that show some people spend too much time on the internet.


----------



## hammer (Aug 16, 2010)

Ishinoue said:


> No, my God isn't associated with Muslims.



how much do you know aout "muslim god" all three godsare indeed one in the same. jeaus was a jew it goes without sayingwhy those two are the same but you do realize the arc angel gabrial has made apprences in the torah right.


----------



## Deleted member 174958 (Aug 16, 2010)

hammer said:


> how much do you know aout "muslim god" all three godsare indeed one in the same. jeaus was a jew it goes without sayingwhy those two are the same but you do realize the arc angel gabrial has made apprences in the torah right.




Quite honestly, then why does the Qur'an say to condemn anyone who worships an other God if they're all the same God?


----------



## hammer (Aug 16, 2010)

Ishinoue said:


> Quite honestly, then why does the Qur'an say to condemn anyone who worships an other God if they're all the same God?



though shall not have a false god before thy

and they do because they think the same why as you did in that post, it stems from not underding


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Aug 16, 2010)

Ishinoue said:


> Quite honestly, then why does the Qur'an say to condemn anyone who worships an other God if they're all the same God?



Because there are more religions out there than Christianity, Islam and Judaism which all worship the same god.  There are many religions out there worshiping thousands of deities.


----------



## Watchman (Aug 16, 2010)

Is Ishinoue the one who got her mother to come on NF to quote bible passages at everyone, or was that someone else?

And Ishinoue, you clearly don't know much about Islam - early in their history, when they were expanding over the lands belonging to the East Roman and Sassanid Empires, they clearly distinguished the Christians as "people of the book", to be treated better than the "pagan" Zoroastrians in Persia.

The God of Judaism, Christianity and Islam _is_ the same God - the critique Muslims have over Christian teachings of God is (IIRC) that God is singular, and a Holy Trinity comes too close to Polytheism (I'm no expert in Islamic theology, so any Muslim around feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), but they acknowledge the prophets of Judaism and Christianity as prophets of Allah, and fairly clearly acknowledge the God of Judaism and Christianity to be the same God they worship.


----------



## sadated_peon (Aug 16, 2010)

Ishinoue said:


> You guys are so friggin' stupid it's almost not funny. Showing someone in a Military suit isn't dishonoring, not in the slightest. .



You don't see how dressing up like a Nazi in an attempt to humorize it not dishonoring the who suffered at the hands of people who died by the hands of people wearing that uniform?

To belittle their suffering by the Nazis, by making light of what the nazi were. 

You dare criticize someone else, while you sit there with that avatar?


----------



## Deleted member 174958 (Aug 16, 2010)

> You dare criticize someone else, while you sit there with that avatar?


It's not bad. The point of the avi is to show that we're heading for that same place if we don't stop it. Read his book.


----------



## vivEnergy (Aug 16, 2010)

My god loved the whores and babies
My god never noticed a sin
My god grew and killed the daises
My god threw the towel in

My god is weird my god is scared my god paints a pretty picture of fear
He's driving in gear.

One day got sick of hailing mary's
Hailed you, got the door and slid on in
Told me you were good a fortune telling
Said too much, threw the towel in

Paid for my ride

Told him we could take the long way
Held on to everything he said
Wanted insight or an answer
Pointed the rear-view at my head

All in all, what does it mean?


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Aug 16, 2010)

Hmm... lots of easy marks to troll these days. Used to harder to get people to reply seriously to obvious nonsense.


----------



## -= Ziggy Stardust =- (Aug 16, 2010)

Shinigami Perv said:


> Hmm... lots of easy marks to troll these days. Used to harder to get people to reply seriously to obvious nonsense.


Trolling is a art.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Aug 16, 2010)

Shinigami Perv said:


> Hmm... lots of easy marks to troll these days. Used to harder to get people to reply seriously to obvious nonsense.



When you're bored enough just about anything qualifies as entertainment.


----------



## Petenshi (Aug 16, 2010)

Ishinoue said:


> It's not bad. The point of the avi is to show that we're heading for that same place if we don't stop it. Read his book.



  . 

Whatever you say Glenn Jr.


----------



## Ralphy♥ (Aug 16, 2010)

Is it true that Muhammad was a bloodthirsty, epileptic seizure having, torturing, people oppressing, p*d*p****?

Some of the stuff I read up on him today kinda bugged me out. Mind you I know very little of the Muslim faith and don't pretend to know even in the slightest. However some of the articles I've only recently come across are rather disturbing.

Admittingly, I had no interest in Muslim faith and only recently wanted to know more. I believe in a higher being but believe in *no* religious structure.


----------



## Z (Aug 16, 2010)

Stop posting Ishinoue


----------



## makeoutparadise (Aug 16, 2010)

Ishinoue said:


> No, my God isn't associated with Muslims.



*Do you shop here?*


----------



## -= Ziggy Stardust =- (Aug 16, 2010)

Ralphy♥ said:


> Is it true that Muhammad was a bloodthirsty, *epileptic seizure having*, torturing, people oppressing, p*d*p****?
> 
> Some of the stuff I read up on him today kinda bugged me out. Mind you I know very little of the Muslim faith and don't pretend to know even in the slightest. However some of the articles I've only recently come across are rather disturbing.
> 
> Admittingly, I had no interest in Muslim faith and only recently wanted to know more. I believe in a higher being but believe in *no* religious structure.


Just wondering why epilepsy is considered in the same light as the other 4 words.


----------



## hammer (Aug 16, 2010)

andit should be 2nd to last as well sounds better


----------



## Jin-E (Aug 16, 2010)

Its fascinating how every Right winger that "dares" to post in the cafe will inevitably be regarded as a troll.


----------



## hammer (Aug 16, 2010)

Jin-E said:


> Its fascinating how every Right winger that "dares" to posts in the cafe will inevitably be regarded as a troll.



when they call theislamicgod whichisthe same god as the jewishand cathliocgod a dog humper why not call them one


----------



## Ralphy♥ (Aug 16, 2010)

-= Ziggy Stardust =- said:


> Just wondering why epilepsy is considered in the same light as the other 4 words.


Apparently from what Ive read, some regard Muhammad's epilepsy as a direct punishment from Gabriel. After the epileptic episodes he would be covered in boils and his skin would be so red that his followers would have to cover him in a tarp/veil. Basically in this context his epilepsy is seen as a punishment of sorts that's why I included it in what I was saying.

At any rate, I don't pretend to take this as fact; again I'm merely seeking enlightenment on the justifications of his character specifically.


----------



## -= Ziggy Stardust =- (Aug 16, 2010)

Ralphy♥ said:


> Apparently from what Ive read, some regard Muhammad's epilepsy as a direct punishment from Gabriel. After the epileptic episodes he would be covered in boils and his skin would be so red that his followers would have to cover him in a tarp/veil. Basically in this context his epilepsy is seen as a punishment of sorts that's why I included it in what I was saying.
> 
> At any rate, I don't pretend to take this as fact; again I'm merely seeking enlightenment on the justifications of his character specifically.



I never said you did, it just seemed out of place for a neurological disease to be the same as murder. 

As for your enlightenment there is a thread about Islam in the debate corner.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Aug 16, 2010)

Jin-E said:


> Its fascinating how every Right winger that "dares" to post in the cafe will inevitably be regarded as a troll.



Oh come on now,you're better than this


----------



## Badass SnoCone (Aug 16, 2010)

Jin-E said:


> Its fascinating how every Right winger that "dares" to post in the cafe will inevitably be regarded as a troll.



lolfailtroll



*Spoiler*: __ 




*Spoiler*: __ 




*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Mist Beauty (Aug 16, 2010)

Jin-E said:


> Its fascinating how every Right winger that "dares" to post in the cafe will inevitably be regarded as a troll.



They are trolls if they would make Glenn Beck blush. I don't think people here have a problem with "right-wingers" who defend their points and actually read what they respond to.


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## sadated_peon (Aug 16, 2010)

Ishinoue said:


> It's not bad. The point of the avi is to show that we're heading for that same place if we don't stop it. Read his book.


It is worse than what you were criticizing, if want to try and take the high round you better not be covered in shit.


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## Fruits Basket Fan (Aug 16, 2010)

I am surprised people are still arguing over this.


But then again, magazine stands still have these in the headlines !!!!


It is just a Muslim cultural center and the whiners need to stop associating this peaceful project as part of those terrorists, otherwise they are unfairly portraying all Muslims as being the same as those terrorists ......


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## Hi Im God (Aug 16, 2010)

Don't forget the mosque that's already there.


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## aquis45 (Aug 16, 2010)

Fruits Basket Fan said:


> It is just a Muslim cultural center and the whiners need to stop associating this peaceful project as part of those terrorists, otherwise they are unfairly portraying all Muslims as being the same as those terrorists ......







> Mischief in Manhattan
> 
> We Muslims know the Ground Zero mosque is meant to be a deliberate provocation
> 
> ...


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 16, 2010)

He didn't even as much defend it as he did defend their right to do it.


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## Crowned Clown (Aug 16, 2010)

For the lulz, a man is wanting to open a gay bar next to mosque aimed at gay Muslim men.


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## -= Ziggy Stardust =- (Aug 16, 2010)

Ergo Proxy said:


> [/URL]
> For the lulz, a man is wanting to open a gay bar next to mosque aimed at gay Muslim men.


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## sharingan_clan213 (Aug 17, 2010)

This mosuqe thing just shows how pathetic the liberals and neo-conservatives really are. The neo-cons say that they should not buld the mosque there because it offends people. okay. it does offend me too, but why should thought crimes come into play? Then you got the liberals who talk about the constitution, and tell us under free speech, they can build the mosque there. Nothng about private property rights here, since they believe in that when it advances their cause. 

As a libertarian, I try to treat everyone the same and I think the muslim community can find a better place to build it, but why should they? Osama bin Laden gets the last laugh afterall. He lures us into an unwinnable war, financial metldown and a mosque for his greatest achievement.


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## makeoutparadise (Aug 17, 2010)

sharingan_clan213 said:


> This mosuqe thing just shows how pathetic the liberals and neo-conservatives really are. The neo-cons say that they should not buld the mosque there because it offends people.



Strange that the conservatives are so quick to stand up for the survivors of 9/11 on this issue 
but when it comes to treating them and giving them health-care they can say 
'"too much money." and "illeagal immigrants who helped out might take advantage."


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## Keile (Aug 17, 2010)

Seisokumaru said:


> Excuse me, I believe the Liberal word for back-tracking is 'clarified'.
> 
> I should have been sympathetic to my audience and said Obama 'clarified' what he meant.



I'm serious, bro. Can you read?



Ishinoue said:


> Come to think of it, this doesn't really surprise me. Obama can go ahead and side with this, doesn't make it okay.



It is OK. Freedom of religion. You can't tell people that they can't build a Mosque or Church on private property.


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## Shasta McNasty (Aug 17, 2010)

Clarified? It's obvious he back-peddled. The whole DNC has their backs against the wall on this issue, politically speaking.


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## Mist Beauty (Aug 17, 2010)

sharingan_clan213 said:


> This mosuqe thing just shows how pathetic the liberals and neo-conservatives really are. The neo-cons say that they should not buld the mosque there because it offends people. okay. it does offend me too, but why should thought crimes come into play? Then you got the liberals who talk about the constitution, and tell us under free speech, they can build the mosque there. Nothng about private property rights here, since they believe in that when it advances their cause.
> 
> As a libertarian, I try to treat everyone the same and I think the muslim community can find a better place to build it, but why should they? Osama bin Laden gets the last laugh afterall. He lures us into an unwinnable war, financial metldown and a mosque for his greatest achievement.



Summary: Both sides suck, but I'm a part of neither. Libertarians kick ass!


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## Hinako (Aug 17, 2010)

Mael said:


> Well this oughta look good for his PR campaign with illogical conservative folk and the lovely Tea Party.  Talk about digging a grave with them but it looks like Mark Williams is already digging the party's grave.  Yes, I still believe anyone associated with it is a fucking retard.
> 
> Glenn Beck just creamed himself...but regardless, Obama is right.  Muslims do have this right and again, it's not directly ON Ground Zero.  Two blocks away doesn't equal ON Ground Zero.  No room for fucking semantics.  Islam isn't the enemy.  Religious extremism is.
> 
> In b4 Muslim Manchurian Candidate.


LOL Glenn creamed himself? As usual you don't educate yourself and end up looking like a clueless man. He actually believes in their right to build it and said something along the lines of supporting it. But alas you continue to throw around stereotype, like a boy who got his first candy bar 

But since Obama has backtracked on his endorsement of the mosque, I'm thinking this thread shouldn't be here anymore 
Yes, that right, he no longer endorses such a thing.

Was he scared of a loss of votes and outcry from the majority? I bet he was. 

I also saw a member in this thread asking for proof that 9/11 families are against this. Well look no further than this.


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## Crowned Clown (Aug 17, 2010)

-= Ziggy Stardust =- said:


>



Didn't see it when I posted, sorry.


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## uchia2000 (Aug 17, 2010)

Hinako said:


> I also saw a member in this thread asking for proof that 9/11 families are against this. Well look no further than this.




Some of them also support it. 

Also from a recent Quinnipiac poll a majority of Manhattan support it. Community Board 1 (they represent lower Manhattan) also support Project 51 and those are the people who are most relevant in this project.


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