# Madara's PS shockwave vs Yata Mirror.



## StarWanderer (Jan 4, 2016)

Alright, boys and girls, ladies and gentlemen! :mahnigga

Let me explain something to you. 

As you know, Madara's PS swings were hyped to be able to smash anything in Narutoverse. And, in fact, his PS swings never, ever, failed to smash/cut anything in the manga.



But at the same time, Yata Mirror was hyped to be able to deflect any attack, regardless of it's nature. And it never failed to block/deflect something in the manga. 


*Spoiler*: __ 








So the quastion is... 

Can Madara's PS swing smash Yata Mirror? 

Because Yata Mirror is the thing from Narutoverse.


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## hbcaptain (Jan 4, 2016)

No he can't .


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## StarWanderer (Jan 4, 2016)

hbcaptain said:


> No he can't .



Based on what?


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## hbcaptain (Jan 4, 2016)

Yata miror is like GudoDama shield , PS slash can't break it .


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## StarWanderer (Jan 4, 2016)

hbcaptain said:


> Yata miror is like GudoDama shield , PS slash can't break it .



Yet PS shockwaves have the hype comparable to Yata Mirror's. And it never failed to cut anything in the manga, as i've already mentioned.


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## hbcaptain (Jan 4, 2016)

Balck Zetsu who knows about PS said Yata miror can tank any attack .


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## KeyofMiracles (Jan 4, 2016)

By hype Yata tanks every attack in the verse at once. By logic it gets wrecked by Madara's PS.


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## Senjuclan (Jan 4, 2016)

hbcaptain said:


> Balck Zetsu who knows about PS said Yata miror can tank any attack .



So you believe it can tank all of RS attacks as well? It can tank all sage mode jutsus including SS attacks?


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## Garcher (Jan 4, 2016)

yes, Yata blocks everything.

I think Black Zetsu knows what he is talking about


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## hbcaptain (Jan 4, 2016)

Well Itachi can't mantain Susano'o for long , secondly :


> So you believe it can tank all of RS attacks as well? It can tank all sage mode jutsus including SS attacks?


Yata miror can tank RS attacks the same way as this :
Bullshit.


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## StarWanderer (Jan 4, 2016)

hbcaptain said:


> Balck Zetsu who knows about PS said Yata miror can tank any attack .



Did he know that Madara's PS can smash all the creation?


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## hbcaptain (Jan 4, 2016)

Black Zetsu not only know but he have seen PS in the past and he is aware about Rikudou Jutsu level .


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## IzayaOrihara (Jan 4, 2016)

*Spoiler*: __ 



*Izaya Orihara has returned. *Bow before me, my underlings!!!!!!!!!!!!! 



Lol on topic tho, we cant ever find out. Yata can supposedly block anything but PS can supposedly destroy anything. This is the scan you should have posted.

A NINJA TOOL IS ONLY S GOOD AS THE NINJA WHO USES IT. THE NINJA MAKES A TOOL POWERFUL. 

That being said, Madara > Itachi so i'm going with Madara here. I don;t see Yata tanking PS. Even Hashirama has difficulty dealing with its attacks. I dont see why Itachi would troll the same move. I mean, he's weaker than Orochimaru for gods sake lol.

PS Sword >>> Yata Mirror. Yata only has hype. It has no spectacular tanking feats. Lol, Kirin almost killed Itachi. Whereas PS actually has good feats. I dont see Yata tanking a mountain buster when susanoo itself is pea sized in comparison to Aoda who isnt bigger or more durable than a range of mountain peaks.


hbcaptain said:


> Black Zetsu not only know but he have seen PS in the past and he is aware about Rikudou Jutsu level .



The same Black Zetsu wasn't aware of Susanoo.
*Spoiler*: __ 







But nice try though.


KeyofMiracles said:


> By hype Yata tanks every attack in the verse at once. By logic it gets wrecked by Madara's PS.



By hype PS slash destoys everything in the verse at once. By logic it wrecks Yata Mirror.


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## ~M~ (Jan 4, 2016)

I have more faith in Itachi's hype than Madara


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## StarWanderer (Jan 4, 2016)

hbcaptain said:


> Black Zetsu not only know but he have seen PS in the past and he is aware about Rikudou Jutsu level .



Prove that Black Zetsu knew everything about Madara's Perfect Susanoo.


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## Saru (Jan 4, 2016)

Why are we kidding ourselves? We know whose side Kishi is on.


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## Bringer (Jan 4, 2016)

The no limits fallacy. 

You know, one thing that always confused me is that Yata Mirror is invincible, but the databook says when attacked by elemental attacks the mirror's chakra(or some shit like that) becomes the opposite element to counter the elemental technique. If it's already indestructible, then why does it need to change into the countering element to take the attack. Furthermore, how does this mechanic help it from none elemental attacks.


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## UchihaX28 (Jan 4, 2016)

I have to admit, IzayaOriwhora literally solo'd this thread.


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## ~M~ (Jan 4, 2016)

BringerOfChaos said:


> The no limits fallacy.
> 
> You know, one thing that always confused me is that Yata Mirror is invincible, but the databook says when attacked by elemental attacks the mirror's chakra(or some shit like that) becomes the opposite element to counter the elemental technique. If it's already indestructible, then why does it need to change into the countering element to take the attack. Furthermore, how does this mechanic help it from none elemental attacks.



Everything has an opposite 

a reflection 

Or are you saying 

We couldn't see susanoo in the yata mirror


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## sanninme rikudo (Jan 4, 2016)

Clearly Madara's PS slashes can't erase everything from existence or else he wouldn't have taken a loss against Hashi. Plus, we only have Madara's mouth to believe that claim from, whereas BZ stated it for Itachi, an individual who has been around since the Kaguya times. 

Moreover, if you're really trying to decipher which one is greater between the two, Itachi has Madara beat simply because Kishi always sides with Itachi.


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## Senjuclan (Jan 4, 2016)

sanninme rikudo said:


> Clearly Madara's PS slashes can't erase everything from existence or else he wouldn't have taken a loss against Hashi. Plus, we only have Madara's mouth to believe that claim from, whereas BZ stated it for Itachi, an individual who has been around since the Kaguya times.
> 
> Moreover, if you're really trying to decipher which one is greater between the two, Itachi has Madara beat simply because Kishi always sides with Itachi.



funny how Kishi has never hyped Itachi as being the strongest Uchiha ever. He did hype Madara though. 

Oh and if we go by your logic that BZ knows everything, then you are saying that even RS yin-yang ninjutsu would not work on yata Mirror, which demonstrably false.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jan 4, 2016)

The shock wave won't destroy Yata's Mirror.


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## OutlawJohn (Jan 4, 2016)

The Mirror, Susan'o and Itachi get obliterated. To say that the Mirror can block anything is no limits fallacy. Itachi's Susano'o and an entire hill were destroyed by Kirin. PS sword strike shits on Kirin in destructive abilities by several tiers.


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## Ghoztly (Jan 4, 2016)

Please, Kishi wanked this character to death and hyped as all hell. If it's stated it blocks anything then it does, I mean he didn't allow Itachi to display it for a reason.

The Totsuka blade proved useful enough, instantly dispatching  mid Kage and high Kage level opponents.. 

If it doesn't block a PS Slash he must at least survive it.


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## Altair21 (Jan 4, 2016)

A hyperbolic statement and a NLF if I ever heard one. I guess Madara can smash the entire universe with one swing from PS as well. 

The mirror gets obliterated along with Itachi and Susanoo.


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## Dr. White (Jan 4, 2016)

Yata > Complete Susano > V2 Susano >= Kirin.

We already seen Yata protect from physical attacks (Oroichi heads got reflected as well as fire/force from explosive tags), the mechanism for jutsu nullification is explained, and it's hyped to be able to reflect even other astral bodies (such as Susano, and Dan's ghost Jutsu)


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## Altair21 (Jan 4, 2016)

Dr. White said:


> Yata > Complete Susano > V2 Susano >= Kirin.
> 
> We already seen Yata protect from physical attacks (Oroichi heads got reflected as well as fire/force from explosive tags), the mechanism for jutsu nullification is explained, and it's hyped to be able to reflect even other astral bodies (such as Susano, and Dan's ghost Jutsu)




Great. Doesn't help him block a PS slash. It's never been shown to block something of that magnitude. 

*Waiting for the inevitable NLF and hyperbole to come*

I mean hey let's just say Madara is universal as well since we're entertaining obvious hyperbolic and NLF statements.


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## Dr. White (Jan 4, 2016)

Altair21 said:


> Great. Doesn't help him block a PS slash. It's never been shown to block something of that magnitude.
> 
> *Waiting for the inevitable NLF and hyperbole to come*
> 
> I mean hey let's just say Madara is universal as well since we're entertaining obvious hyperbolic and NLF statements.



PS Shockwave is not busting through V4 complete Susano let alone that + yata Mirror which via scaling is > V4 Susano itself. 

Kirin is easily comparable to the shockwaves even if a bit inferior, and V2 (a far inferior form of Susano) kept ITachi alive from that.

Never used NLF. Used powerscaling and hype/feats as a means to place in the scale, but nice try.

BTW thread is if it can block the shockwave not the direct slash.


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## Altair21 (Jan 4, 2016)

Dr. White said:


> PS Shockwave is not busting through V4 complete Susano let alone that + yata Mirror which via scaling is > V4 Susano itself.
> 
> *Kirin is easily comparable to the shockwaves even if a bit inferior*, and V2 (a far inferior form of Susano) kept ITachi alive from that.
> 
> ...




No it's not.  The shockwave from PS alone split two mountains from an extremely far distance. Kirin busted a small mountain. Not even comparable to the two mountains Madara split.  

Powerscaling and feats? Yes, feats that consist of tanking explosive tags and hyperbolic hype. You're doing a real bang up job there.  Like I said, if we're taking hyperbolic hype/statements at face value then we might as well entertain universal+ Madara. 

The wank is amusing though.


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## Trojan (Jan 4, 2016)

Madara fought against Hashirama who fought against madara.

Since these 2 fought each other that means they defeat/resist anyone and everything else.
And no, it does not matter if everyone else has a completely different fighting style. 

That's the general logic in the BD. 


Therefore, Madara should be able to destroy the Yata.

Then again, in this BD itachi is always an exception as well for everything no matter what it is. He is the only
one who counters himself according to the BD.

So the only logical conclusion is a draw. 

-----

Side note:

Using Zetsu's words is retarded tho because the damn thing is an obvious retcon. And Kishi admitted as much. 



Altair21 said:


> No it's not.  The shockwave from PS alone split two mountains from an extremely far distance. Kirin busted a small mountain. Not even comparable to the two mountains Madara split.
> .



How did you know the size exactly?


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## Dr. White (Jan 4, 2016)

Altair21 said:


> No it's not.  The shockwave from PS alone split two mountains from an extremely far distance. Kirin busted a small mountain. Not even comparable to the two mountains Madara split.


It split the top of two mountains, not all of the mountains themselves. Real shockwaves also are omnidirectional and wouldn't be lined up as such. So Madara's shockwaves didn't bust the base.

The Uchiha plateau was a mountain made of several large plateaus...Kirin also isn't a slicing attack.



> Powerscaling and feats? Yes, feats that consist of tanking explosive tags and hyperbolic hype. You're doing a real bang up job there.  Like I said, if we're taking hyperbolic hype/statements at face value then we might as well entertain universal+ Madara.


A.) Boss summons heads > Manda. Also me point out the Explosive tags was show it counters fire not made from chakra, and even material objects like swords.
B.) Powerscaling rules any combat manga. You wanna know why Madara's mountain feat is Bjuu level? Because he's scaled off their fucking feats. Madara's calced PS swings were under what got calced for Kirin  yet we still powerscale him over that. There are innumerable amount of cases where no powerscaling from characters without explicit feats leads retarded fucking conclusions.
Yata is useless as a shield for Itachi if V4 is signfigantly stronger than it. If Yata is stronger than V4 it's gets scaled > it. Hype back up it's placement above complete Susano. Simple.
C.) I never said Yata can block anything, so your bs NLF excuse doesn't fly here.



> The wank is amusing though.


your lack of argument and desperate clinging to the wank argument is amusing as well.


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## Altair21 (Jan 4, 2016)

Hussain said:


> Madara fought against Hashirama who fought against madara.
> 
> Since these 2 fought each other that means they defeat/resist anyone and everything else.
> And no, it does not matter if everyone else has a completely different fighting style.
> ...




I'm a prophet.  You didn't know that?


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## ATastyMuffin (Jan 4, 2016)

Dr. White said:


> PS Shockwave is not busting through V4 complete Susano let alone that + yata Mirror which via scaling is > V4 Susano itself.
> 
> *Kirin is easily comparable to the shockwaves even if a bit inferior*, and V2 (a far inferior form of Susano) kept ITachi alive from that.
> 
> ...



You're aware of Narutoverse's calculated numbers and you actually think this? 

The shockwaves are more than ten times more powerful, bud.


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## Trojan (Jan 4, 2016)

My 2 cents. 

Kirin is far stronger than PS's shockwaves. I think that's obvious.


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## Altair21 (Jan 4, 2016)

Dr. White said:


> It split the top of two mountains, not all of the mountains themselves. Real shockwaves also are omnidirectional and wouldn't be lined up as such. So Madara's shockwaves didn't bust the base.
> 
> The Uchiha plateau was a mountain made of several large plateaus...Kirin also isn't a slicing attack.
> 
> ...



Using calcs in the Nardo BD?  

When yata has feats that consist of blocking anything more than explosive tags then I might be willing to entertain your nonsensical hyperbolic hype. 

So are we going to entertain universal+ Madara?


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## ATastyMuffin (Jan 4, 2016)

Hussain said:


> My 2 cents.
> 
> Kirin is far stronger than PS's shockwaves. I think that's obvious.



Based off what is Kirin stronger than the shockwaves, and how is it _obvious_, from your view?


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## Trojan (Jan 4, 2016)

Altair21, surprisingly, is correct. Using calc is not the smartest thing.
I don't know from where people came up with the idea that Kishi gives a fuck a bout every tiny detail. lol


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## Ersa (Jan 4, 2016)

The shockwave is a physical attack. Yata is immune to physical attacks.



On a serious note, I'm cool for using OBD numbers to compare attacks of the same variant (Bijuudama, Rasengan) but I disagree with using the numbers for comparing different attacks. Simply put that is assuming Kishimoto draws every attack with size in mind which is bullshit. The VOTE 2 explosion is like what 1% the size of Naruto's BDFRS barrage yet we know which one is stronger.


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## Transcendent Shinobi (Jan 4, 2016)

Yata Mirror might deflect anything going towards Itachi but yata mirror isn't a 360 degree omni directional bubble shield.

 A shockwave from Madara's PS can most definitely destroy Itachi's Susanoo on the sides,  bottom, rear, and top turning Itachi into paste on the rocks since shockwaves will ripple through the air and earth around itachi not just being focused fired at his front like a kunai.

 But since yata will be blocking his front side the first couple inches of his chest and face might withstand the shockwave.


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## Trojan (Jan 4, 2016)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Based off what is Kirin stronger than the shockwaves, and how is it _obvious_, from your view?



1- Kirin is a natural power that got hyped because of its source of raw power. 
2- It completely destroyed the entire mountain that they were fighting at. PS's attacks only destroyed a part of a mountain's tops, not the whole things.

3- PS's swords can be stopped with Hashirama's Golem for example, and even tho Hashirama is right there
on top of his Golem, the shockwaves did not do him. I do not see Hashi or his Golem surviving Kirin to be honest.


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## ATastyMuffin (Jan 4, 2016)

Ersa said:


> The shockwave is a physical attack. Yata is immune to physical attacks.
> 
> 
> 
> On a serious note, I'm cool for using OBD numbers to compare attacks of the same variant (Bijuudama, Rasengan) but I disagree with using the numbers for comparing different attacks. Simply put that is assuming Kishimoto draws every attack with size in mind which is bullshit.



lol so we can't compare Perfect Susanō's shockwaves to a super-charged Bijūdama or Jūbi's?

Doesn't sound feasible at all.


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## Dr. White (Jan 4, 2016)

Altair21 said:


> Using calcs in the Nardo BD?


Prove Kishi's penstrokes wrong along with basic science or GTFO. I guess everybody's subjective interpetation is better eh 

I'll also alternatively take any statements from Kishi saying that people using basic laws of physics and scaling from his own artwork don't fly when analyzing his manga.

Don't worry I'll wait. 



> When yata has feats that consist of blocking anything more than explosive tags then I might be willing to entertain your nonsensical hyperbolic hype.


Yep, guess we can't user powerscaling now. Guess Minato is physically weaker than Jiroubo and pt. 1 Chouji, guess Tobirama's shushin speed is slower than Hebi sasuke's. Guess shisui's genjutsu (barring Koto) is weaker than pt. 1 Kabuto's, guess Raikiri is stronger than Nukite, guess V2 Susano is stonger than 4th Raikage's Raiton cloak.



> So are we going to entertain universal+ Madara?


You obviously aren't intelligent enough to follow this argument as I've told you mutiple times, I never said Yata can block anything, and I used powerscaling. Same powerscaling that pits Madara's PS durability on Bjuudama level despite no feats suggesting it.

Don't know why you keep bring this universal shit up, and Naruto doesn't even cap at Planet level as a series, and being able to cut anything in the universe doesn't make you universal.


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## Altair21 (Jan 4, 2016)

Dr. White said:


> Prove Kishi's penstrokes wrong along with basic science or GTFO. I guess everybody's subjective interpetation is better eh
> 
> I'll also alternatively take any statements from Kishi saying that people using basic laws of physics and scaling from his own artwork don't fly when analyzing his manga.
> 
> ...



>Still using fan-made calcs in the Nardo BD. 
>Attempts to power-scale yata to an attack far stronger than the attack his susanoo tanked
>Attempts to use hyperbolic hype. Universal Madara it is. 
>Still wanking...

Of course I never expected much less from the Itachi crowd.


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## Ersa (Jan 4, 2016)

ATastyMuffin said:


> lol so we can't compare Perfect Susanō's shockwaves to a super-charged Bijūdama or Jūbi's?
> 
> Doesn't sound feasible at all.


In the context of the NBD I would say no. In-verse a slicing attack is different from a explosion. I think in this case it would be best just to look at their feats rather then numbers calculated from pixel scaling. Which leads to a clusterfuck as Yata is mainly hype. 

I would be tempted to say a shockwave is not doing too much considering the Kages absorbed a bit of it without having a chakra guardian to protect them. *[1]*

As for the slash itself I'm tempted to say it could smash the Mirror but power inflation is a bitch and honestly it wouldn't surprise me if the Mirror could tank a PS slash. It's anyone's guess.


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## ATastyMuffin (Jan 4, 2016)

Hussain said:


> 1- Kirin is a natural power that got hyped because of its source of raw power.



So?



> 2- It completely destroyed the entire mountain that they were fighting at. PS's attacks only destroyed a part of a mountain's tops, not the whole things.



I don't think I need to explain to you the folly of your assumption, which is assuming the mountains hit by both attacks are the same size, right?





> 3- PS's swords can be stopped with Hashirama's Golem for example, and even tho Hashirama is right there
> on top of his Golem, the shockwaves did not do him. I do not see Hashi or his Golem surviving Kirin to be honest.



Yeah, dude, saying 'I don't see this and this happening' or 'my two cents' doesn't allow you to dismiss the requirement of having to _provide proof for your assertions_.

Every one of your claims have been entirely baseless.


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## Dr. White (Jan 4, 2016)

Altair21 said:


> -snip



No arguments still?
Concession accepted.


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## ATastyMuffin (Jan 4, 2016)

Ersa said:


> In the context of the NBD I would say no. In-verse a slicing attack is different from a explosion. I think in this case it would be best just to look at their feats rather then numbers calculated from pixel scaling. Which leads to a clusterfuck as Yata is mainly hype.
> 
> I would be tempted to say a shockwave is not doing too much considering the Kages absorbed a bit of it without having a chakra guardian to protect them. *[1]*
> 
> As for the slash itself I'm tempted to say it could smash the Mirror but power inflation is a bitch and honestly it wouldn't surprise me if the Mirror could tank a PS slash. It's anyone's guess.



In context of the NBD Perfect Susanō rivals the power of the Bijū with its slashes.

No-limits fallacy is an actual thing, and people are willing to dismiss it so readily for absolutely no reason. It baffles me. Is it just because it's Itachi?


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## Trojan (Jan 4, 2016)

> [=ATastyMuffin;54991844]
> I don't think I need to explain to you the folly of your assumption, which is assuming the mountains hit by both attacks are the same size, right?


Let me guess, you assume automatically that the top of the mountain Madara's PS destroyed
is far bigger than the mountain Kirin destroyed in comparison between and ant to and elephant? 



> Yeah, dude, saying 'I don't see this and this happening' or 'my two cents' doesn't allow you to dismiss the requirement of having to _provide proof for your assertions_.
> 
> Every one of your claims have been entirely baseless


Well, duh?

I have no proof of anything here.
1- We haven't seen the Madara's PS attack itachi's Yata directly.
2- We haven't had any statement regarding a comparison between them directly.
3- Both got their hyperball..

Saying Madara's PS destroyed itachi's Yata is as baseless as saying Itachi's Yata tanks Madara's PS
and that's the simple fact we have. Anyone trying to present HIS opinion as a fact is simply being full of himself because we don't have a cut-clear showing/statement.  

Alsho, from how the characters portrayed, Madara will stomp itachi as a bug.


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## Altair21 (Jan 4, 2016)

Dr. White said:


> No arguments still?
> Concession accepted.



If only you presented a viable argument to begin with.


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## Ersa (Jan 4, 2016)

ATastyMuffin said:


> In context of the NBD Perfect Susanō rivals the power of the Bijū with its slashes.


I'd actually argue for the Mirror surviving weaker variants of Bijuudama to be honest. And in the overall scheme of power characters at Itachi's level can handle most Bijuu. Hell, Deidara did it by himself. 



> No-limits fallacy is an actual thing, and people are willing to dismiss it so readily for absolutely no reason. It baffles me. Is it just because it's Itachi?


I wouldn't classify Yata tanking a PS slash as use of NLF to be honest, it's offensive counterpart already took down someone who I think is only a notch down from EMS Madara. Suggesting the mirror is actually invincible is NLF, suggesting it would tank attacks from the Juubi is NLF but I don't think Madara is so far from Itachi that suggesting that mirror could survive his attacks is that outrageous.  

The mirror has limits in my mind but a PS slash may possibly still be in those limits. It's just an interpretation and until we get more information (probably never) I doubt we'll ever find out if it's horrible wrong or correct.


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## OutlawJohn (Jan 4, 2016)

In the Battledome, unless a feat is actually accomplished, it cannot be used for a feat. We saw Itachi's Susano'o, presumably Mirror and all, get obliterated by Kirin. Kirin only had the destructive force to destroy a large hill. A casual swing of Madara's sword ripped miles of ground and split two mountains in half. I see no logical reasoning that explain how the mirror survives.


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## Dr. White (Jan 4, 2016)

OutlawJohn said:


> In the Battledome, unless a feat is actually accomplished, it cannot be used for a feat. We saw Itachi's Susano'o, presumably Mirror and all, get obliterated by Kirin. Kirin only had the destructive force to destroy a large hill. A casual swing of Madara's sword ripped miles of ground and split two mountains in half. I see no logical reasoning that explain how the mirror survives.



> No powerscaling is viable as long as their is reason to justify the scaling, hence Madara's PS being scaled up to Bjuu's.
> Small Mountain =/ Large hill, and 11 megatons is mountain level.
> Kirin hit V2 Susano, not V4 let alone V4 with Yata.


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## Ersa (Jan 4, 2016)

OutlawJohn said:


> In the Battledome, unless a feat is actually accomplished, it cannot be used for a feat. We saw Itachi's Susano'o, *presumably *Mirror and all, get obliterated by Kirin. Kirin only had the destructive force to destroy a large hill. A casual swing of Madara's sword ripped miles of ground and split two mountains in half. I see no logical reasoning that explain how the mirror survives.


And that is your problem.

Itachi is unable to manifest V4 and Yata in the time it takes Sasuke to drop his arm.


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## Ghoztly (Jan 4, 2016)

I can't see it beating V4 with Yata. All we have to go on are statements and in the only example we have each opposing force was only seen once in the manga. Kirin vs Susanoo (V2)+ Yata mirror. 

Neither was used again.

So, what we have is a statement directly made in the manga and databook, and seeing how effective the Totsuka was I see little reason to doubt the mirror at all, also consider V4 Susanoo+that mirror? No fucking way is a goddamn slash going to beat it.


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## StarWanderer (Jan 5, 2016)

Dr. White said:


> PS Shockwave is not busting through V4 complete Susano let alone that + yata Mirror which via scaling is > V4 Susano itself.
> 
> Kirin is easily comparable to the shockwaves even if a bit inferior, and V2 (a far inferior form of Susano) kept ITachi alive from that.
> 
> ...



One shockwave could cut through how many - 6-8 mountains (VOTE fight between Hashirama and Madara)? And was hyped to be able to smash any substance in Narutoverse. And has never failed to cut through anything. 

Furthermore, it is actually smaller than mountain. A little bit. 



PS shockwave goes through V4 Susanoo and Yata Mirror. Comparable hype level + actual feats.


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## Rai (Jan 5, 2016)

Madara needed Hashirama's SM to beat Juubito which means his PS shockwave won't work against Juubito's Yin-Yang H4x.

"Smash all things in the universe" hype disproven

Yata Mirror repel that shit.


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## StarWanderer (Jan 5, 2016)

ℜai said:


> Madara needed Hashirama's SM to beat Juubito which means his PS shockwave won't work against Juubito's Yin-Yang H4x.
> 
> "Smash all things in the universe" hype disproven
> 
> Yata Mirror repel that shit.



He becomes a lot faster with Hashirama's SM. And not just him - his jutsus as well. We know the speed level of Juubi Jins. Plus, it's easier to restrain Juubi Jin when you have senjutsu chakra, because it's Juubi Jin's weakness + Mokuton techniques. 

Hype has not been disproven. 

Yata gets destroyed.


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## Rai (Jan 5, 2016)

PS slashes won't works against Juubito's Yin-Yang H4x - "Smash all things in the universe" hype disproven.

Yata Mirror still have it's hype of "repel any attack" by BZ (Kaguya's will) intact who has seen Hashirama vs Madara battle. .

Yata Mirror is the winner here.

Yata Mirror repel that shit.


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## TehDarkDarkOfPerdition (Jan 5, 2016)

Did people forget that White Zetsu only appeared after Madara got the Rinnegan and summoned the Gedou? Only Black Zetsu has been around since Kaguya. BZ has seen Madara's PS in action and still said that about the Yata. It doesn't break either Madara's statements of being able to smash all things that get hit by his PS sword or Yata being able to reflect all attacks back canceling them out. An attack of the same power will cancel itself out.

Thats why its called the Yata Mirror. It mirrors the opposing attack regardless of it's nature/power that attack has, making it cancel itself out. Thats common sense.

Now considering BZ has been around since Kaguya, he'll know about a lot of things. It's a legendary tool that's origins are unknown but Hagoromo probably made it, since he did make the ninja treasure tools it's very possible.

Why would you think BZ be lying? It makes no sense to believe that when it hasn't been contradicted in manga at any point. Has it been shown reflecting a stronger attack than shown? No. Does that matter? No. BZ has the credibility to back up his words on the Yata.


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## IzayaOrihara (Jan 5, 2016)

sanninme rikudo said:


> Clearly Madara's PS slashes can't erase everything from existence or else he wouldn't have taken a loss against Hashi. Plus, we only have Madara's mouth to believe that claim from, whereas BZ stated it for Itachi, an individual who has been around since the Kaguya times.
> 
> Moreover, if you're really trying to decipher which one is greater between the two, Itachi has Madara beat simply because Kishi always sides with Itachi.



Itachi's tanking feats with Yata <<< feats Madara has accomplished with PS. Their hype is more or less equal so the portrayals cancel each other out. All we have to go by is their overall portrayal, in which Madara wins as he's the strongest Uchiha in the series whether you like it or not. And so what if Madara lost to Hashirama. Itachi lost to Hebi Sasuke. Itachi has never faced an opponent of Hashirama's calibre nor does he have the ability or capacity to do so. 

This isn't the manga. This is the Naruto Forums Battle Dome. In the manga Hebi Sasuke would beat ANYONE because of plot armour. He can't do that here on a forum. These forums are made to circumvent the bullsh*t that occurs in the actual manga. Madara wins the battle of portrayal. Madara > Nagato, whom Itachi needed ET form (which basically gives him EMS since an Edo can't go blind (with the exception of Izanagi/Izanami) or suffer pain or exhaustion) to overcome. An alive Itachi wouldn't even last that long. But anyway PS Slash >>> Yata. It's either that or we don't know as we have little info on Yata yet equally hyped to PS Slash in terms of proportionate feats.

EDIT



TehDarkDarkOfPerdition said:


> Did people forget that White Zetsu only appeared after Madara got the Rinnegan and summoned the Gedou? Only Black Zetsu has been around since Kaguya. BZ has seen Madara's PS in action and still said that about the Yata. It doesn't break either Madara's statements of being able to smash all things that get hit by his PS sword or Yata being able to reflect all attacks back canceling them out. An attack of the same power will cancel itself out.


They have equal hype but PS has better feats. PS slash and Yata mirror don't have equal power. We clearly know which is stronger. 



> Thats why its called the Yata Mirror. It mirrors the opposing attack regardless of it's nature/power that attack has, making it cancel itself out. Thats common sense.


It's not common sense. Mokujin hands stopped a PS blade. The blade that can smash anything. So why should the Yata that can tank anything actually be able to do so? Especially against an attack with the magnitude of a perfect susanoo sword slash. Please. Just please. Yata gets smashed like a broken plate. 



> Now considering BZ has been around since Kaguya, he'll know about a lot of things. It's a legendary tool that's origins are unknown but Hagoromo probably made it, since he did make the ninja treasure tools it's very possible.


Black Zetsu hasn't even seen susanoo before. Let alone PS. Consider that. I'll just post my earlier post again here. Because many seemed to have ignore it. 





IzayaOrihara said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...







> Why would you think BZ be lying? It makes no sense to believe that when it hasn't been contradicted in manga at any point. Has it been shown reflecting a stronger attack than shown? No. Does that matter? No. BZ has the credibility to back up his words on the Yata.


Yata hasn't got feats. PS has. That's the difference. By the way The same Black Zetsu stated in the same sentence that Itachi was invincible. But he lost to Sasuke.


It's silly that everyone will believe Zetsu but ignore Madara. That's just Itachi sank. Stop it. Either PS Sword > Yata or they are equal at the very least (though the former seems more convincing than the latter in the grand scheme of the manga, something that no one can deny). By no means is Yata better than PS sword; not unless you prove it to me.

At the end of the day, PS has better feats. Yata only has a hype. PS is closer to living up to its hype than Yata is. And Zetsu has never seen susanoo let alone perfect susanoo sword in action when he made statements about Yata Mirror. Madara made statements after the VOTE battle. We know he lived on. Maybe he got stronger. Madara knows more about his own technique than Zetsu knows about some thing he has seen for the very first time and has never seen Susanoo prior to this to make comparisons. Madaras words > Zetsus words and Feats > Hype so Perfect Susanoo Sword > Yata Mirror.


----------



## ~M~ (Jan 5, 2016)

The only reason naruto calcs aren't a thing seems to be the art quality makes measuring a mess


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Jan 5, 2016)

I'd say simply by the virtue of  being on a completely different tier, Madara's PS would bust Yata.
From a portrayal standpoint though, Madara isn't oneshotting Itachi with his shockwaves.


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## DaVizWiz (Jan 5, 2016)

PS obviously.

Not relevant whether or not it breaks Yata, there is hole underneath his Susano and slashing toward it would blow rocks from underneath him into his Susano at extreme velocities, killing him. 

He blew up debris that trumped the size of his own PS... over top of his PS. [1].

All of that shit circled is blown up at Itachi's feet, and it kills him. 

It also hits parts of his Susano unblocked from Yata (below, back, sides), which would also destroy it, and him along with it, even if we discount the hole in the bottom that obviously leaves him completely unprotected.


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## ~M~ (Jan 5, 2016)

Transcendent Shinobi said:


> *Yata Mirror might deflect anything going towards Itachi but yata mirror isn't a 360 degree omni directional bubble shield.*
> 
> A shockwave from Madara's PS can most definitely destroy Itachi's Susanoo on the sides,  bottom, rear, and top turning Itachi into paste on the rocks since shockwaves will ripple through the air and earth around itachi not just being focused fired at his front like a kunai.
> 
> But since yata will be blocking his front side the first couple inches of his chest and face might withstand the shockwave.


This is why it's more believable Itachi's Hype > Madara's, since Madara lost. Many times to many people


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## IzayaOrihara (Jan 5, 2016)

*@–M–*, Madara lost to top tiers. Itachi lost to Low Kages like Hebi Sasuke. 



Grimmjowsensei said:


> I'd say simply by the virtue of  being on a completely different tier, Madara's PS would bust Yata.
> From a portrayal standpoint though, Madara isn't oneshotting Itachi with his shockwaves.


Yes he is based on what DaVizWiz said. You'll find that quoted below. What's so great about Itachi's portrayal. He has portrayal above weakened Orochimaru and portrayal below a full power Sannin. In my opinion Oro/JMan are each worth two Gokages. With Tsunade they make a team strong enough to get blitzed by NOT A DIRECT HIT, BUT A SHOCKWAVE BASED OF AN ATTACK THAT HIT THE METEOR NOT THE KAGES. 

So Itachi does get one shotted unless you can prove otherwise using manga panels rather than your fanfic where Itachi's portrayal is on par with Hashiramas, considering the fact that practically no one below Hashirama's level (that includes the likes of Tobirama, Sannin, Itachi, Nagato etc) can answer to a direct attack from PS like Hashirama did here. 

Unless like I said before you are willing to prove with panels not hype that really doesn't even exist in the manga canon OR data book. 



DaVizWiz said:


> PS obviously.
> 
> Not relevant whether or not it breaks Yata, there is hole underneath his Susano and slashing toward it would blow rocks from underneath him into his Susano at extreme velocities, killing him.
> 
> ...



Exactly  

You can even take a "Rock Paper Scissors" approach to it. In that game you play three rounds. Here the rounds can be

Round 1: Hype Battle
Round 2: Feats Battle
Round 3: Common Sense

Madara wins the hype battle. The two hypes cancel each out yet Madara's (who knows his own Jutsu) hype is more valid than Black Zetsu's (who made comments on something he's only ever heard stories and legends of, and up until that point had never set eyes on a basic standardised Itachi susanoo let alone having knowledge of PS)

Madara's feats are closer to PS's hype than Yata's feats are to Yata's hype. I don't need to say no more. 

As for common sense, Madara is the strongest Uchiha. That's a fact. So he should overall be better than Itachi. From this alone we can deduce that PS smashes Yata.

At this point I really don't even care what was said about Yata Mirror. Perfect Susanoo Sword was said to be able to smash anything yet got stopped by Hashirama. So why do we blindly assume Yata can exactly live up to its hype (without feats) when stronger weapons (such as PS blade which has tangible feats) did not do the same._ I doubt Yata could even tank Tengai Shinsei. Yes. _ * The same meteors that Perfect Susanoo's Sword crumbled like a biscuit. *

Stop taking hype so seriously. It was a baseless hype, unlike for example Tsunade's regeneration hype which has evidence which allows us to believe she can do what she says she can. And by the way Itachi never said anything about Yata. It was Black Zetsu that did. And consider the context. At the time he wasn't a 1000 Year old being who knew Kaguya. The concept of Kaguya didn't even exist back then so we can't apply it to this thread. 
- Yata Mirror was said to be able to turn back any attack but we have no evidence that such a ridiculous feat can be achieved. 
- PS Sword had the exact same proportion of hype and never lived up to it. 
- Hiruzen was said to be stronger than Hashirama and was stated to be able to use EVERY JUTSU IN KONOHA (which means he can use Kage Mane no Jutsu, Chou no Baika, Shintenshin etc)
- "Only a Sannin can defeat another Sannin". 
- Hanzō was so strong. "No single man alone could defeat him". 
We have countless instances where hype isn't to be taken literally to the word. People only take statements about Yata at face value because Itachi is their favourite character and it's getting silly now because the same people would say Tsunade can't regenerate limbs when we have reason to believe she can. I mean, do you think Yata can tank Shinshuusenju, PS Slash, Senpou Bijuudama etc? No. So please get real. Even Nagato can't defend himself from PS (with CST at best he can block one slash) so why assume Itachi can't because all the other people around his level (Kisame, Deidara, Sasori's) or above (Sannin, Prime Hiruzen, Tobirama) can't either. Madara is a god in the Narutoverse.


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## Itachі (Jan 5, 2016)

orochimaru lost to pre-hebi sasuke


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## IzayaOrihara (Jan 5, 2016)

HANDICAPPED/JUTSULESS/SICK/KILLING INTENTLESS/BLINDSIDED/BEDRIDDEN Orochimaru lost to pre-hebi Sasuke. He won a physical battle with neurotoxins and then lost in Fushi Tensei dimension. Full power Orochimaru is *MUCH* stronger than that. Sasuke even admitted he would have been stomped by a full power Orochimaru.

Trust me. You don't want to open that can of worms with me. Lets leave it at that and stick to the main topic of this thread.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jan 5, 2016)

IzayaOrihara said:


> *@?M?*, Madara lost to top tiers. Itachi lost to Low Kages like Hebi Sasuke.
> 
> 
> Yes he is based on what DaVizWiz said. You'll find that quoted below. What's so great about Itachi's portrayal. He has portrayal above weakened Orochimaru and portrayal below a full power Sannin. In my opinion Oro/JMan are each worth two Gokages. With Tsunade they make a team strong enough to get blitzed by NOT A DIRECT HIT, BUT A SHOCKWAVE BASED OF AN ATTACK THAT HIT THE METEOR NOT THE KAGES.
> ...



Aren't you the guy who thinks Orochimaru is stronger than Itachi ? 
Thats enough reason to dismiss anything you say.


----------



## IzayaOrihara (Jan 5, 2016)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Aren't you the guy who thinks Orochimaru is stronger than Itachi ?
> Thats enough reason to dismiss anything you say.


No it is not because that debate has nothing to do with this one.
And Orochimaru > Itachi. The manga supports that. If you choose to believe otherwise that's fine but i don't want to talk about that right now right here.


----------



## OutlawJohn (Jan 5, 2016)

Dr. White said:


> > No powerscaling is viable as long as their is reason to justify the scaling, hence Madara's PS being scaled up to Bjuu's.
> > Small Mountain =/ Large hill, and 11 megatons is mountain level.
> > Kirin hit V2 Susano, not V4 let alone V4 with Yata.



Please explain this power scaling you speak of.

Listen carefully to what I type next, doctor. The problem here for me is not whether or not Madara's blade would cut through in the manga, only Kishi can tell us that. My problem is whether or not Yata Mirror should be scaled to feats it did not achieve. Yata Mirror has never been shown to handle force greater than Kirin in the manga, so that remains it's limit for argumentation purposes.

We saw Madara's V2 Susano'o get punched clean through by Ai while lightened. Kirin > A's punch. If Itachi was only used V2 Susano'o, Kirin should have left nothing of him.



Ersa said:


> And that is your problem.
> 
> Itachi is unable to manifest V4 and Yata in the time it takes Sasuke to drop his arm.



Read as explained above. As far as I'm aware as well, it was never said that Itachi had to complete Susano'o to summon the mirror. Either way, a normal Susano'o would not have survived Kirin as we've A's punches go through unarmored Susano'o's.

As for the people saying Itachi's hype > Madara's ... are you mad? Someone said something about Madara having lost before so Itachi > Madara? How does that make sense? Madara has to one person in the entire series, Hashirama. Hashirama who empty his bowels on any character except for the god-tiers.


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## Itachi san88 (Jan 5, 2016)

> And Orochimaru > Itachi. The manga supports that.


If Kishimoto read this, probably die.

Anyway, PS of course. Even if Yata it remains intact, in any case Susanoo and  Itachi himself they can not resist a similar power.


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## ~M~ (Jan 5, 2016)

But orochimaru > itachi  

 

Or are we restricting ET and letting broke ass MS shenanigans


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jan 5, 2016)

Don't make any mistake. Yata's mirror alone can tank the slashes, but it can only guard for one direction. In practice, PS could slash on one end, force Yata to guard then immediately get to another side and blast what parts Yata can't protect.

Or Madara could simply just use the same Susanoo Itachi uses. Itachi's Susanoo with the items is a Susanoo that anyone with enough mastery of Susanoo can obtain.


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## IzayaOrihara (Jan 5, 2016)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Don't make any mistake. Yata's mirror alone can tank the slashes, but it can only guard for one direction. In practice, PS could slash on one end, force Yata to guard then immediately get to another side and blast what parts Yata can't protect.
> 
> Or Madara could simply just use the same Susanoo Itachi uses. Itachi's Susanoo with the items is a Susanoo that anyone with enough mastery of Susanoo can obtain.



Yata isnt tanking. Yata hype = PS hype. Yata feats < PS feats. Itachi < Madara. Based on that who do you think wins here? Yata or PS? I know who wins. Do you?
Madara was the true master of susanoo. He used it the most and used it the best, unlocked PS, had a better PS than Sasuke, which i can prove, applied it to Bijuu summons and Wood clones. Susanoo is to Madara what snakes are to Orochimaru. Itachi just picked up weapons to stabilise his fodder susanoo and make it worth using because even then MS Sasuke had a better showing than him. Itachi needs an Edo body with maxxed chakra and haxxed stamina/regen in order to be relevant to a Top Tier.


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## LostSelf (Jan 5, 2016)

Zetsu didn't even know what a Susano'o was, even when he saw it against Hashirama. Zetsu also went all the fight believing that Itachi was a novice and Sasuke a master.

Zetsu was drunk, people. Sorry for those who believe in him .


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## Deleted member 211714 (Jan 5, 2016)

The shockwaves that are generated from the slashes of Perfect Susano'o aren't elemental attacks. From what we know, Yata no Kagami counters an elemental attack with another element that holds said advantage on the nature wheel. Even though I do think Yata is still durable to some extent, I wouldn't elevate its durability to the level of slashes from Perfect Susano'o.

So Perfect Susano'o wins. Rather easily, if you ask me.


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## IzayaOrihara (Jan 5, 2016)

Thank you @King Itachi and @Lost Self
Thread Concluded.


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## Rai (Jan 5, 2016)

Yata Mirror can repel: physical, ninjutsu, spiritual attacks...etc in other words: any attack as stated by BZ in the manga.

Yata Mirror repel that shit.

BZ not knowing what was Susano'o means that he was retconned which mean the retconned BZ knows what Susano'o is since he temped Indra/Ashura and their transmigrants for generations.

He was there in Madara vs Hashirama battle too.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jan 5, 2016)

IzayaOrihara said:


> Yata isnt tanking. Yata hype = PS hype. Yata feats < PS feats. Itachi < Madara. Based on that who do you think wins here? Yata or PS? I know who wins. Do you?



You're talking about aspect of a jutsu vs aspect of a jutsu. Yata wins.

However anyone who takes that as Itachi>Madara are just kidding themselves.



> Madara was the true master of susanoo. He used it the most and used it the best, unlocked PS, had a better PS than Sasuke, which i can prove, applied it to Bijuu summons and Wood clones. Susanoo is to Madara what snakes are to Orochimaru. Itachi just picked up weapons to stabilise his fodder susanoo and make it worth using because even then MS Sasuke had a better showing than him. Itachi needs an Edo body with maxxed chakra and haxxed stamina/regen in order to be relevant to a Top Tier.



Itachi picked up no weapons... his Susanoo is anything someone who perfects the half body Susanoo can get i.e. Madara and Sasuke could probably get that and probably can combine Enton with it. 

I am not doubting that Madara is a better Susanoo user. I'm saying slash vs shield: shield wins.



ℜai said:


> Yata Mirror can repel: physical, ninjutsu, spiritual attacks...etc in other words: any attack as stated by BZ in the manga.
> 
> Yata Mirror repel that shit.
> 
> ...



Or maybe Madara mastered Susanoo so fast that he started using PS more and Zetsu didn't get the chance to see him use the one with the mirror and sword.


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## Rai (Jan 5, 2016)

Madara now has Yata Mirror/Totsuka blade?   

Bye.

It's a waste of time.


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## Bringer (Jan 5, 2016)

ℜai said:


> Yata Mirror can repel: physical, ninjutsu, spiritual attacks...etc in other words: any attack as stated by BZ in the manga.
> 
> Yata Mirror repel that shit.
> 
> ...



If it could already repel any attack, why would it have to become the opposite element to counter elemental attacks?


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jan 5, 2016)

ℜai said:


> Madara now has Yata Mirror/Totsuka blade?
> 
> Bye.
> 
> It's a waste of time.



That being part of a standard Susanoo (we saw with Sasuke too) is more believable than Itachi bunging items into his eye. 

What will you tell me next, Sasuke found a bow and arrow and put them in his eyes? Madara found two swords and jabbed them into his MS?


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## Rai (Jan 5, 2016)

I never said that Itachi found them.

They come with his Susano'o just like Sasuke and Madara's Susano'o items.

They all have different items.

Madara's Susano'o has not showed any shield nor any sword like Totsuka.

Complete waste of time.

Not even going to waste any reply.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jan 5, 2016)

ℜai said:


> I never said that Itachi found them.
> 
> They come with his Susano'o just like Sasuke and Madara's Susano'o items.
> 
> ...



Waste of time because you don't have any adequate answer?

Itachi was the only one to show his half full Susanoo for extended periods of time. Sasuke showed his for just a few panels and Madara didn't. If they were so different, Kishimoto would've shown it. As we've seen Kishimoto doesn't like repetition as far as eye powers are concerned unless the plot needed it. That's why Sasuke and Madara never used Shinra Tensei, Asura Path or Animal Path... they only used Preta and CT when the plot called for it.

You saw Madara's stage 4 Susanoo? You know it has no items like Itachi?
FYI Itachi's stage 3 Susanoo had no items like his stage 4 one; it materialised a sword Sasuke could materialise.

Evidently they all don't have different items. Pure Uchiha seem to have the same items except special ones like ones with Indra's chakra.
Those with some sort of Senju mods seem to have different items too, like Obito's having Kamui shuriken (only PS, so the previous forms are likely like the others) and Shisui's whose chakra colour was exactly the same as Danzo's arm, eye and Hashi-shoulder combined.


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## StarWanderer (Jan 5, 2016)

ℜai said:


> PS slashes won't works against Juubito's Yin-Yang H4x - "Smash all things in the universe" hype disproven.
> 
> Yata Mirror still have it's hype of "repel any attack" by BZ (Kaguya's will) intact who has seen Hashirama vs Madara battle. .
> 
> ...



Prove that. 

He has seen their battle, but that doesnt mean he knows anything about Madara's PS and can calculate the limits of those shockwaves. Madara's PS shockwaves has never failed to smash/cut anything. 

Yata Mirror gets smashed.


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## StarWanderer (Jan 5, 2016)

Black Zetsu couldnt calculate the limits of PS's shockwaves. And the fact he was around for a very long time proves nothing. Also, since when he watched the whole fight between Hashirama and Madara? What about him being around when the fight was nearly over? He risked his life just to watch that fight? Black Zetsu aka Joe Rogan of Narutoverse?


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## StarWanderer (Jan 5, 2016)

> Sword was said to be able to smash anything yet got stopped by Hashirama.



The blade was stopped by mokuton hands, there was no direct hit, obviously. Naruto could stop the blade  in the same way with his hands in Part 1, that doesnt mean he could tank the slash of that blade. The fact is - with a direct hit, Madara's PS blade has never, ever, failed to cut/smash anything, including those hands which stopped the blade.


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## Skywalker (Jan 5, 2016)

I think Zetsu would know what he's talking about.

Yata Mirror > All


----------



## DaVizWiz (Jan 5, 2016)

Yeah, Zetsu definitely thinks Itachi could defeat Kaguya... being he called him invincible and all.


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## StarWanderer (Jan 5, 2016)

Skywalker said:


> I think Zetsu would know what he's talking about.
> 
> Yata Mirror > All



That's the problem.

People are forgetting that there is no proof Black Zetsu watched all the fights with PS in action. There is no proof he knew anything about Madara's PS. There is no proof he could calculate Madara's PS shockwave's limits and that's if we assume he was there the whole time, watching the fight.


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## sanninme rikudo (Jan 5, 2016)

DaVizWiz said:


> Yeah, Zetsu definitely thinks Itachi could defeat Kaguya... being he called him invincible and all.


For all we know, he very well can be invincible, but that only goes for the parts of Susanoo that are in the dominion of protection of Yata's mirror, as it doesn't omnidirectionally defend Itachi.


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## Ghoztly (Jan 5, 2016)

Zetsu solo'd Madara.

All of you peasants bow down and never doubt him again.


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## DaVizWiz (Jan 5, 2016)

sanninme rikudo said:


> For all we know, he very well can be invincible, but that only goes for the parts of Susanoo that are in the dominion of protection of Yata's mirror, as it doesn't omnidirectionally defend Itachi.


Frog Song GG

Senpo Mateki: Mugen Onsa GG

Kamui GG

All while Yata pointed at caster

Not invincible 

Not debatable


----------



## TehDarkDarkOfPerdition (Jan 5, 2016)

Just forget the part where BZ said the Yata mirror is invincible and has the credibility to back his words and your fanfiction can be true.

Don't forget to also ignore the part where BZ said Itachi was _*essentially*_ invincible while he has the Mirror too. Glad to see people using brain power and knowing that all you need to do to beat the Yata Mirror is to go around it and hit the wielder.

Yata>All things that attack it.

Person who wields the Yata and can't block an attack in time, not so much.


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## StarWanderer (Jan 6, 2016)

> Yata>All things that attack it.



Kamui says hi.



Yata Mirror's hype has been completely destroyed, completely retconned and completely smashed.

PS's strike trashes that mirror.


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## UchihaX28 (Jan 6, 2016)

Obito's Kamui counters Kakashi's Kamui.

1
1

 Gai and Minato both evaded Kamui.

 Therefore, there is a possible defense against Kamui.


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## StarWanderer (Jan 6, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> Obito's Kamui counters Kakashi's Kamui.
> 
> 1
> 1
> ...



Alright, you got me there. 

But anyway, we are talking about Madara's hype here...


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## Rai (Jan 9, 2016)

Madara needed Hashirama's SM for a reason; PS slashes won't work against Juubito's Yin-Yang h4x.

"Smash all things in the universe" hype disproven.

Yata Mirror repel that shit.

Yata Mirror has shown the ability to expand to cover the entire Susano'o.


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## TehDarkDarkOfPerdition (Jan 9, 2016)

But Madara keeps his hype since equal forces cancel each other out.


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## Itachі (Jan 11, 2016)

King Itachi said:


> The shockwaves that are generated from the slashes of Perfect Susano'o aren't elemental attacks. From what we know, Yata no Kagami counters an elemental attack with another element that holds said advantage on the nature wheel. Even though I do think Yata is still durable to some extent, I wouldn't elevate its durability to the level of slashes from Perfect Susano'o.
> 
> So Perfect Susano'o wins. Rather easily, if you ask me.



Pretty much my thoughts on the matter. Even if Yata could tank the attacks, it's not like Itachi would be protected from all sides.


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## StarWanderer (Jan 19, 2016)

> Madara needed Hashirama's SM for a reason; PS slashes won't work against Juubito's Yin-Yang h4x.



SM makes him a lot faster + amps all of his arsenal with senjutsu. Of course he wanted to use SM to stop Juubito. I thought i explained that earlier. 



> "Smash all things in the universe" hype disproven.



Nope. 



> Yata Mirror repel that shit.



Yata Mirror gets smashed. 



> Yata Mirror has shown the ability to expand to cover the entire Susano'o.



It has never been shown to cover all of his Susanoo. Only half of it at most.


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## Nikushimi (Jan 19, 2016)

Yata Mirror reflects it back, PS destroys itself. GG.


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## Rai (Jan 19, 2016)

StarWanderer said:


> SM makes him a lot faster + amps all of his arsenal with senjutsu. Of course he wanted to use SM to stop Juubito. I thought i explained that earlier.



He needed Hashirama's SM to stop Juubito.

Because PS slashes won't work it's simple.

"Smash all things in the universe" hype disproven




StarWanderer said:


> Nope.



Yes.





StarWanderer said:


> Yata Mirror gets smashed.



Yata repel that shit.





StarWanderer said:


> It has never been shown to cover all of his Susanoo. Only half of it at most.



It's looks to me that it's like a dome that is protecting Itachi and the Susano'o

and even if we go with that it's only covering the half, it's was a dying, blind, low chakra Itachi.

A full healthy/Edo Itachi should be able to cover the entirity of it's Susano'o.

Yata Mirror repel that shit.


/Case closed.


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## UchihaX28 (Jan 19, 2016)

Rinnegan Sasuke's PS > Madara's PS.

 Madara's PS is stated to be able to cut through everything.

 Rinnegan Sasuke's PS fails to cut through RSM Naruto's Kurama Avatar's Tails.

 Therefore, Madara's PS can't cut through anything.

 Totsuka blade's hype hasn't been contradicted, therefore, it negates Madara's PS low-diff.


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## Lawrence777 (Jan 19, 2016)

I think it comes down to the user as with many things.

If Itachi had a PS the same class as Madara's, and it had a yata mirror for that level of combat, I think it'd tank it with minimal difficulty. Itachi's regular susano'o which is maybe 1/200th the size of Madara's will get crushed though yata or not imo.

Same reason I don't think Nagato can absorb PS. If it were the juubi jinch absorbing it though then PS'd get gobbled up like that god tree.


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## StarWanderer (Feb 7, 2016)

> He needed Hashirama's SM to stop Juubito.
> 
> Because PS slashes won't work it's simple.
> 
> "Smash all things in the universe" hype disproven



Prove that he wanted SM because slashes wont work. SM amps everything, including jutsu's and attack's speed. 



> Yes.



Nope. 



> Yata repel that shit.



Yata Mirror gets smashed. 



> It's looks to me that it's like a dome that is protecting Itachi and the Susano'o
> 
> and even if we go with that it's only covering the half, it's was a dying, blind, low chakra Itachi.
> 
> ...



Prove that Yata Mirror can spread so wide that it will cover all of his Susanoo. 

Yata Mirror gets smashed. 



> Rinnegan Sasuke's PS > Madara's PS.
> 
> Madara's PS is stated to be able to cut through everything.
> 
> ...



Rikudou Sasuke stomps Madara due to his huge speed advantage and lots of jutsus that can kill Madara. But his PS's striking power isnt as good as Madara's.

Totsuka blade has never been stated to be capable of piercing through anything. And that's what it needs to do in order to seal.


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## IzayaOrihara (Feb 8, 2016)

ℜai said:


> Madara needed Hashirama's SM for a reason; PS slashes won't work against Juubito's Yin-Yang h4x.
> 
> "Smash all things in the universe" hype disproven.
> 
> ...



So Yata Mirror can block attacks from rear/underground?
It was a simple hype lets not overthink it. By your logic Yata is a better defence than CST and I see no reason as to why that would be the case.


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## Isaiah13000 (Feb 8, 2016)

Do people seriously take this single pure overhype statement from several years ago and halfway through the series seriously? It was stated that only a Sannin could beat another Sannin, no one man could defeat Hanzo, Pain was a God and was unbeatable, and that Madara's susanoo is destruction incarnate itself that can cut down anything and destroy anything. But all of these claims have been proven false, the Yata Mirror's hasn't because it is irrelevant and was just raw hype not to mention Black Zetsu's statement from that long ago shouldn't even be taken seriously because the concept for Kaguya and BZ being her will didn't even exist yet. Zetsu didn't even know what a susanoo was at that time and somehow his statement from that time is credible? As for the databooks, they're flawed too and should not be taken literally for reasons that others have already shown and stated. Kamui's explanation for example is one reason. It just baffles me how people can think that an overhyped, nigh-featless, completely irrelevant, never mentioned or brought up again magical invincible mirror (That is only invincible according to Zetsu who didn't know what or much about susanoo at all at the time and was going of an ancient legend) is somehow able to go up against Madara's Perfect Susanoo's slashing attack that is actually relevant, has actual impressive feats, and is from a much higher tier shinobi and character. This is yet another reason why Itachi is the most overrated character in the series, common sense is thrown out the window if Itachi is involved.


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## IzayaOrihara (Feb 8, 2016)

Isaiah13000 said:


> Do people seriously take this single pure overhype statement from several years ago and halfway through the series seriously?


I agree.


> It was stated that only a Sannin could beat another Sannin,


At the time that statement was made (and other characters of that level hadnt ben introduced, including Itachi) that was the case, to be fair.


> no one man could defeat Hanzo,


His portrayal is around Prime Nagato so that statement is close to being true as the only ninja above that level iei HashiMadz, were dead 20 years before Hanzo fought the Sannin so again, this is more or less true





> Pain was a God and was unbeatable,


He never lost a fight until he fought the main character so its understandable that he could say that, just like someone can say Yata is invicnble since nothing has defeated it, but Itachi faced fodders all his life so its not to say PS cant smash it



> and that Madara's susanoo is destruction incarnate itself that can cut down anything and destroy anything.


This is true. Tell me one thing PS cannot cut.



> But all of these claims have been proven false,


Only halfway



> the Yata Mirror's hasn't because it is irrelevant and was just raw hype not to mention Black Zetsu's statement from that long ago shouldn't even be taken seriously because the concept for Kaguya and BZ being her will didn't even exist yet. Zetsu didn't even know what a susanoo was at that time and somehow his statement from that time is credible?


Exactly


> As for the databooks, they're flawed too and should not be taken literally for reasons that others have already shown and stated.



Could not have said it any better.

But like the Sannin thing, there was a time that was true so we have to consider cotext. Zetsu didnt know about PS so logically PS Hype is more credible than Yata Hype. What is the strongest attack Zetsu has ever laid eyes on to say that Yata can tank it, when said attack has probably never even faced yata before.



> *Kamui's explanation for example is one reason. It just baffles me how people can think that an overhyped, nigh-featless, completely irrelevant, never mentioned or brought up again magical invincible mirror (That is only invincible according to Zetsu who didn't know what or much about susanoo at all at the time and was going of an ancient legend) is somehow able to go up against Madara's Perfect Susanoo's slashing attack that is actually relevant, has actual impressive feats, and is from a much higher tier shinobi and character. This is yet another reason why Itachi is the most overrated character in the series, common sense is thrown out the window if Itachi is involved.*


*This.
"Hanzo cannot be undefeatable and Pain is not unbeatable either and not just a Sannin can defeat another Sannin, yet Yata can tank anything."
This is why I call these kinds of people Itachi fanboys. I won't name any names as these people know who they are.​*


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