# Current Naruto and Current Sasuke vs Hashirama and EMS Madara



## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 27, 2014)

Battlefield: Valley of The End.
Distance: 60 m.
Mindset: Bloodlusted.
Knowledge: None.
Restrictions: None.

This is current Naruto and Sasuke, with Hagoromo's power-ups vs Hashirama and Madara.

Who will win? Hashirama starts in Sennin Modo.


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## Bonly (Jun 27, 2014)

Seriously? Like legit seriously? It's quite clear that only Madara(Juubi jin with both his eyes), and the Sage's main family(mom,two brothers, sagees son) are the only ones on Naruto's+Sasuke's level or above. Hashi and EMS Madara isn't on that level and they lose.


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## Jagger (Jun 27, 2014)

They both oblirate them. 

Not even Juudara with his enhanced reflexes could react to Sasuke's slash at time and he survived due the Juubi's insane healing capacities, which Madara lacks in this scenario.

Hashirama can be dealt with Naruto's overwhelming attacks. The only thing Hashirama has to offer against Naruto is Shinshuusenju and it can be countered.


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## Arles Celes (Jun 27, 2014)

Sasuke's current PS can cut Madara's CT into pieces in seconds. And Madara's CT dwarfed mountains.

Naruto's bijuu FRS had a power output even greater than a super bijuudama and was capable of obliterating a whole CT in an instant. And Naruto can throw like 6 of them.

Sasuke has speed that even Shinju Madara couldn't handle and an improved version of Minato's Hirashin. He was also able to block with his hand an attack from a Limbo clone without sustaining any damage(same as Six Path SM Naruto). On top of that his chakra reserves are seemingly huge now as he spammed PS, his teleportation jutsu, Amatarasu and Chidori without showing any signs of exhaustion. And that is along with Kaguya draining his chakra a few times. Even his EMS eye was able to keep up with Juubi Jins.

Naruto has crazy speed, countless rasengan variants, crazy healing and most likely a bijuu avatar that is beyond BSM.

Hashi and EMS Madara are out of luck.


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## Dominus (Jun 27, 2014)

Naruto surpassed Hashirama, Sasuke is on Naruto's level and Madara is on Hashirama's level. It should be obvious that Naruto and Sasuke win this.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Jun 27, 2014)

Both Naruto and Sasuke by themselves can rofl stomp


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## Shinobi no Kami (Jun 27, 2014)

8 gated gai managed to beat up juubi jin madara pretty badly and said that fighting gai made him as excited as the time when he fought hashirama.

after gai activated his final technique, madara stated that gai was the best that he fought, *as far as taijutsu goes*. 
that means he has fought opponents above the level of 8 gated gai and that opponent is hashirama.
hashirama and madaras power level arent lacking.


naruto and sasuke dont come close to stomping hashirama and madara. that is merely a fanboys dream.

naruto is equal to sasuke, who like madara, has a perfect susano as his full power.

hashirama and madara shouldnt be underrated to the extent that they are. the bulk of naruto and sasukes power still comes from the fact that they are asura and indra reincarnations.

sasukes full power doesnt come from hagoromos power. it is his perfect susano.


the strongest of narutos attacks still come from half of kuramas power.


madaras susano has the feats of cutting a mountain range that covers a lot more area than the shinju, with a *single swipe* of its blade.

*Spoiler*: __ 








hashiramas shinsuusenju has 1000 hands that are each the size of a mountain. thats 1000 mountain busters, just for clarification.


that overpowers perfect susano with the kyuubi.

naruto and sasuke dont stomp. hopefully people stop being close-minded.


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## Kai (Jun 27, 2014)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> 8 gated gai managed to beat up juubi jin madara pretty badly and said that fighting gai made him as excited as the time when he fought hashirama.
> 
> after gai activated his final technique, madara stated that gai was the best that he fought, as far as taijutsu goes.
> that means he has fought opponents above the level of 8 gated gai and that opponent is hashirama.


So you're comparing Madara's level of excitement with power level? 

Look how far you're reaching to match what you want to be true.


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## richard lewis (Jun 27, 2014)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> 8 gated gai managed to beat up juubi jin madara pretty badly and said that fighting gai made him as excited as the time when he fought hashirama.
> 
> after gai activated his final technique, madara stated that gai was the best that he fought, *as far as taijutsu goes*.
> that means he has fought opponents above the level of 8 gated gai and that opponent is hashirama.
> ...



LOL bro what are you smoking? Naruto and sasuke where smacking around juubi jin madara like he was a rag doll. and juubi jin madara is leagues above hashirama and EMS madara's strength. Madara outright stated that he would loose if he didn't get his other rinnegan, and even when he got his other rinnegan naruto and sasuke where still keeping up with him. 

Naruto sliced the god tree clean in half with YRS, and the god tree >= hashi's buddah and madara's PS. GTFO with you BS please!


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## HST Supporter (Jun 27, 2014)

I wonder sometimes if people are reading the same manga as me.

The current powers ups of Nardo and Sasuke allow them to fight the ''final'' boss of the series, so far.

And you put them against some high tiers? Because naruto and sasuke are currently upper high tiers.

Just shaking my head.


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## Godaime Tsunade (Jun 27, 2014)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> 8 gated gai managed to beat up juubi jin madara pretty badly and said that fighting gai made him as excited as the time when he fought hashirama.
> 
> after gai activated his final technique, madara stated that gai was the best that he fought, *as far as taijutsu goes*.
> that means he has fought opponents above the level of 8 gated gai and that opponent is hashirama.
> hashirama and madaras power level arent lacking.



Uhh, let's put a few things into perspective here. The Madara that Eight Gated Gai fought had:


 Mokuton
 Instantaneous regeneration 
 the Rinnegan
 the Juubi

The Madara that Hashirama fought was much, _much_ weaker. Eight Gated Gai putting a significantly stronger Madara under pressure is more impressive than Hashirama doing so with a weaker version. I should add, it has been outright stated on-panel that the power that the Eighth Gate gives to Gai is _above_ that of a Hokage. Eight Gated Gai > Hashirama. There's a reason Gai dies after opening that gate, it's because it is _incredibly_ powerful.



> naruto and sasuke dont come close to stomping hashirama and madara. that is merely a fanboys dream.



It seems more like a Fanboys dream that they don't, to be perfectly honest.



> naruto is equal to sasuke, who like madara, has a perfect susano as his full power.
> 
> hashirama and madara shouldnt be underrated to the extent that they are. the bulk of naruto and sasukes power still comes from the fact that they are asura and indra reincarnations.
> 
> sasukes full power doesnt come from hagoromos power. it is his perfect susano.



Sasuke's Perfect Susano'o can fly and is faster than Madara's Perfect Susano'o. It's obviously better. I should add, he possesses a Rinnegan, infinitely greater speed and reflexes, higher stamina and more versatility than EMS Madara. 

Hashirama and Madara definitely aren't under-rated either, it is the complete opposite. 



> the strongest of narutos attacks still come from half of kuramas power.



So what? They are still feats that absolutely shit on anything Hashirama or Madara can do.



> madaras susano has the feats of cutting a mountain range that covers a lot more area than the shinju, with a *single swipe* of its blade.
> 
> *Spoiler*: __



Which Sasuke could obviously replicate.



> hashiramas shinsuusenju has 1000 hands that are each the size of a mountain. thats 1000 mountain busters, just for clarification.



And Naruto can bust countries effortlessly, making Hashirama's statue fodder.



> that overpowers perfect susano with the kyuubi.
> 
> naruto and sasuke dont stomp. hopefully people stop being close-minded.



Get real.​​


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## DaVizWiz (Jun 27, 2014)

Kai said:


> So you're comparing Madara's level of excitement with power level?
> 
> Look how far you're reaching to match what you want to be true.


Are you suggesting Madara wasn't making a clear indication that Gated Gai was on the level of Hashirama?

The only other man he's acknowledged through dialogue has been Gai, it's actually not that ridiculous to suggest his excitement is actual proof of viable power scale.

At no point was he smiling while battling the Gokage or Naruto, outright "acknowledging" Gai and comparing his level of excitement to that of the battle of Hashirama when the dude felt more significant than a god is a feat of power scale IMO.

But, of course, it wouldn't be unless Gai actually showed he was, which he did. 8th Gate Gai is superior to Hashirama by feats, this is common logic, he was battling a variant of Madara that would have simply trashed EMS Madara and 100% Kurama.


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## Veracity (Jun 27, 2014)

Give the legends a Kyuubi Enchanced PS coated Buddah and they still don't stand a chance. It's pretty clear that Naruto and Sasuke are far above the legends at this point.


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## Kai (Jun 27, 2014)

DaVizWiz said:


> Are you suggesting Madara wasn't making a clear indication that Gated Gai was on the level of Hashirama?
> 
> The only other man he's acknowledged through dialogue has been Gai, it's actually not that ridiculous to suggest his excitement is actual proof of viable power scale.
> 
> ...


No, excitement level isn't proof of comparable power scale. That level of excitement can be reached mutually exclusive from power scale. EMS Madara is by no means comparable in power level to Juubi Jin Madara, despite Madara having similar level of excitement during both encounters.


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## StickaStick (Jun 27, 2014)

This is a horrible stomp and one of the worse that I've probably ever seen.

All you really have to know is that Current Naruto >= Pre-Tree-Absorption Juubimads >>>>>>>> Sage Hashirama or EMS Mads; and that Current Naruto more or less = Current Sasuke.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 27, 2014)

Not even close. Madara and Hashirama get steamrolled by current Naruto and Sasuke.


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## DaVizWiz (Jun 27, 2014)

Kai said:


> No, excitement level isn't proof of comparable power scale. That level of excitement can be reached mutually exclusive from power scale. EMS Madara is by no means comparable in power level to Juubi Jin Madara, despite Madara having similar level of excitement during both encounters.


In this instance, it is. 

At the time when he was EMS fighting Hashirama he was excited because they were close in power, as the battle showcased.

At the time when Judara was fighting 8th Gate Gai he was excited because they were close in power, as the battle showcased.

Pretty simple explanation. Madara rarely gets excited, there are literally 3 instances of excitement in the manga for him as an adult. When he fought Hashirama, when he fought Gai, and when he was trashing Obito's entire existence in the Kamui dimension before his life slipped away. 

Two of them were because he was fighting an extremely powerful ninja, the other was because he is a psychopath who manipulated people for pleasure and was thoroughly enjoying revealing that to Obito.  

Madara got excited because he knew he could be defeated at any moment- which does not happen often. Equal competition is what excites him, the battlefield is a playground for him. He got excited when he fought Hashirama, the God of Shinobi, the reincarnation of Ashura. He got excited in a supremely more powerful form when he was fighting Gai- what is the result?

Gai is extremely powerful.

You disagree? Madara has literally faced nearly all of the top-tiers in battle at this point in the manga. "I haven't been this excited since I fought Hashirama." 

1. Hashirama (excitement)

Others (0 excitement):
Gokage, Tobirama + Edo Tobirama, Edo Minato, Kakashi, Onoki + Mu, Gaara, 7 bijuu, Obito, countless Senju, the ENTIRE alliance [1], 

2. Gai (excitement)


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## Krippy (Jun 27, 2014)

Either one could oneshot both Shodai and Mads.


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## Kai (Jun 27, 2014)

DaVizWiz said:


> In this instance, it is.
> 
> At the time when he was EMS fighting Hashirama he was excited because they were close in power, as the battle showcased.
> 
> ...


Right, so it naturally ends up like this.
Juudara--8th Gate Gai
EMS Madara---Hashirama

His level of excitement simply depends on opponent's power relative to his own. Comparing excitement to that of the past does not equal comparing power level to that of the past. Juudara was as "excited" as VOTE Madara. They are not even close in power. Therefore, comparing 8th Gate Gai's power to Hashirama is invalid under the same reasoning.

Madara can feel the same way if his power is that closely matched, *regardless* of how powerful he is. Gai at the 8th Gate is beyond Hashirama but this is not a reason that tells us why or how.


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## DaVizWiz (Jun 27, 2014)

> Right, so it naturally ends up like this.
> Juudara--8th Gate Gai
> EMS Madara---Hashirama
> 
> ...


At the very least they are both extremely powerful based on his excitement, there was not a single battle in the manga where he wasn't. 

EMS Madara with 100% Kurama might not be close to Judara's power, but they were both still considered extremely powerful when they fought their opponents. 

In effect, it means that Hashirama and Gai are extremely powerful for having made him excited, which was the result of him consciously being matched against someone who had a good chance of killing him. 

I agree EMS Madara =/= Judara
And I agree Hashirama =/= Hashirama

But you can certainly still say that Madara being excited in a battle is a result of him fighting someone extremely powerful, almost ALWAYS. And that is an indication of power scale, at the very least, being compared to his own level:

EMS Madara w/ Kurama= Hashirama
Judara = Gai


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## Blu-ray (Jun 27, 2014)

We're better off discussing the ways either could solo, because you'd have to have some massive denial to think they'd have any difficulty whatsoever, let alone lose. Either could solo the two of them in under a second with no difficulty. From sixty meters, Sasuke decapitates both with his sword, or Naruto punches through their skulls without bothering to go into Rikudo SM. Both can do this before either has time to react. They're at a level where they don't even need to bother with Ninjutsu. At the very least a time released Izanagi makes Madara last longer than a second. No such luck for Hashirama.


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## Ether (Jun 27, 2014)

inb4lock,

Current Naruto and Sasuke defeat them with no difficulty.

They're currently fighting Kaguya who is far beyond both Hashirama and EMS Madara.

Either can solo.


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## Nikushimi (Jun 27, 2014)

Hashirama and Madara get violated anally.


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## ARGUS (Jun 27, 2014)

Naruto and Sasuke murder stomp


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## Deleted member 211714 (Jun 27, 2014)

Naruto and Sasuke. (high-extreme difficulty)
Even though Current Naruto is fully capable of destroying Hashirama's Mokuton, we just can't forget that it is the perfect counter to Bijuu and Jins; that, in itself, will always make him a threat in such instances. 

Current Sasuke, on the other hand, is the wildcard in this match-up. Personally, I don't think his feats suggest he's capable of defeating EMS Madara w/ 100% Kyuubi or Sage Hashirama, but portrayal clearly indicates that he's above the two of them (individually). His PS isn't cutting through Madara's PS, and that has to be the stupidest thing I've read this week. Additionally, Hashi/Madara still have enough firepower and hax to kill Sauce on their own. 

The fact that the duo is capable of destroying multiple Chibaku Tensei doesn't prove much of anything, as that feat is also possible between Hashirama/Madara. And Gai (8th Gate) would lose to both incarnations of Hashi/Madara, as well. Basically, Naruto and Sasuke managed to handle some clones they're able to see/sense, momentarily sparring with a version of Madara who tanks attacks and doesn't show the true potential of Juubi Jins; that's the true explanation . Either Juubi Madara or Juubi Obito can stomp the living shit out of Current Naruto/Current Sasuke. In the end, there is truly no explanation for the inconsistency and bullshit that Kishi writes.


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## Kyu (Jun 27, 2014)

Sauce beheads Madara while Nardo beats the piss out of Hashirama.

Big guns aren't necessary to bring out. Team 1 curbstomps.


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## Ruse (Jun 27, 2014)

Hashi and Madz get taken to the rape shed.


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## Jagger (Jun 27, 2014)

King Itachi said:


> Current Sasuke, on the other hand, is the wildcard in this match-up. Personally, I don't think his feats suggest he's capable of defeating EMS Madara w/ 100% Kyuubi or Sage Hashirama, but portrayal clearly indicates that he's above the two of them (individually). His PS isn't cutting through Madara's PS, and that has to be the stupidest thing I've read this week. Additionally, Hashi/Madara still have enough firepower and hax to kill Sauce on their own.


While we don't know if it can cut through Madara's PS or not, it's far more versatile and stronger. Not to mention Sasuke can use longer than Madara can (common sense if Hagoromo enhanced all of Sasuke's and Naruto's abilities).

In everything else, Sasuke is pretty much superior or equal to Madara. Taijutsu shouldn't be an issue considering Sasuke's Dojutsu is better than Madara's in this case. Ninjutsu? Sasuke with his S/T jutsu should give Madara more problems than you think. After all, he managed to cut Juudara in half, a far stronger version of the Madara we're discussing about. Genjutsu? Sasuke should break anything thrown at him.

With Hashirama, it's harder to debate for him since the former has far more firepower than Madara does.


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## Ersa (Jun 27, 2014)

Madara and Hashirama are ragdolled and sent to the moon.

Sasuke and Naruto were tearing apart meteors that when formed showed the planet's curvature. The Buddha is tiny compared to that. Shinju Madara was also blitzed by Sasuke and chopped in half, his reactions are so far and beyond Madara and Hashirama's that I don't think I need to explain. Okay maybe I do. Bijuu Sage Mode Naruto was struggling to track Juubito, Juubito is weaker then Shinju Madara. Did I mention an incomplete Juubito shits on Hashirama by his own admission?

Either protagonist can solo this with zero effort.


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## Ruse (Jun 27, 2014)

Sasuke and Naruto were slapping around Juubi Madara but lose to a much weaker Hashi and Madara. 

The denial is strong in some of these posts


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## richard lewis (Jun 27, 2014)

King Itachi said:


> Naruto and Sasuke. (high-extreme difficulty)
> Even though Current Naruto is fully capable of destroying Hashirama's Mokuton, we just can't forget that it is the perfect counter to Bijuu and Jins; that, in itself, will always make him a threat in such instances.



Naruto speed blitz juubi madara and nuked his ass with a god tree busting YRS. Mind you that hashirama himself stated that juubito was stronger than him, so madara by proxy is even more superior to him than juubito is. Please explain as to how hashirama will avoid getting blitzed and nuked?



King Itachi said:


> Current Sasuke, on the other hand, is the wildcard in this match-up. Personally, I don't think his feats suggest he's capable of defeating EMS Madara w/ 100% Kyuubi or Sage Hashirama, but portrayal clearly indicates that he's above the two of them (individually). His PS isn't cutting through Madara's PS, and that has to be the stupidest thing I've read this week. Additionally, Hashi/Madara still have enough firepower and hax to kill Sauce on their own.



 sasuke speed blitzed juubi jin madara, regular madara gets his head cut off b4 he even figures out whats going on.



King Itachi said:


> The fact that the duo is capable of destroying multiple Chibaku Tensei doesn't prove much of anything, as that feat is also possible between Hashirama/Madara. And Gai (8th Gate) would lose to both incarnations of Hashi/Madara, as well. Basically, Naruto and Sasuke managed to handle some clones they're able to see/sense, momentarily sparring with a version of Madara who tanks attacks and doesn't show the true potential of Juubi Jins; that's the true explanation . Either Juubi Madara or Juubi Obito can stomp the living shit out of Current Naruto/Current Sasuke. In the end, there is truly no explanation for the inconsistency and bullshit that Kishi writes.



What is this BS? 8th gate gai damn near killed juubi jin madara, madara himself admitted that. So how the hell is a *MUCH....MUCH* weaker version of madara supposed to stand a chance against him?

How does juubi obito beat naruto or sasuke? both of them where able to blitz madara "who is stronger than obito" and smack him around like a rag doll! what you saying is ridiculous!


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## Jagger (Jun 27, 2014)

Some users just dislike to admit the legends such as Hashirama and Madara were far long surpassed by two teenagers.


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## ARGUS (Jun 27, 2014)

King Itachi said:


> Naruto and Sasuke. (high-extreme difficulty)
> *Even though Current Naruto is fully capable of destroying Hashirama's Mokuton, *we just can't forget that it is the perfect counter to Bijuu and Jins; that, in itself, will always make him a threat in such instances.


@Bold - If naruto can destroy hashirmas mokuton techs easily, then hashiramas mokutons simply arent enough here


King Itachi said:


> Current Sasuke, on the other hand, is the wildcard in this match-up. Personally, I don't think his feats suggest he's capable of defeating EMS Madara w/ 100% Kyuubi or Sage Hashirama, but portrayal clearly indicates that he's above the two of them (individually).* His PS isn't cutting through Madara's PS,* and that has to be the stupidest thing I've read this week. Additionally, Hashi/Madara still have enough firepower and hax to kill Sauce on their own.


--Sasukes PS is far more versatile and stronger than madaras,,, on top of that he also has the enton affinity,, his PS was chopping island sized meteors,, meaning that its DC is higher than Madaras PS & SS,, not only thhat but his PS would also have higher durability seeing that the susanoo output is always lower than the amount of energy it can withstand,, with  that  being said,, sasukes PS bisects through Madaras PS,,, its not stupid to state such thing seeing that the man has the sages moon powers

--Neither madara nor hashirama are countering sasukes S/T jutsu,, they will get severed in half and unliike JJ Madara (who mind you cudnt react),,, they are not survivng such a  fatal blow,, neither are  they any  where near JJ madaras level, who sasuke was fighting quite well against


King Itachi said:


> *The fact that the duo is capable of destroying multiple Chibaku Tensei doesn't prove much of anything, as that feat is also possible between Hashirama/Madara.*


Thhey are island sized meteors,, madaras PS at best can chop mountains, and SS hasnt shown the offense to destroy meteors of that size with only single blows,, 
PS & SS are not surviving CT of that level


King Itachi said:


> And Gai (8th Gate) would lose to both incarnations of Hashi/Madara, as well. *Basically, Naruto and Sasuke managed to handle some clones they're able to see/sense, momentarily sparring with a version of Madara who tanks attacks and doesn't show the true potential of Juubi Jins; that's the true explanation . *


What do you mean madara doesnt show the full potential of JJ,, 
he has the rinnegan, can use onmyoudon and TSB,, has CT and TBBs,, the fact that naruto and sasuke managed to overwhelm madara doesnt mean that he doesnt show the full potential, it just means that he couldnt handle them,,,,,,
and if you are stating that current naruto and sasukke dont have JJ potential then u are mistaken,, they wouldve killed madara within seconds had it not been for his anotther rinnegan,, which was still handlled by naruto/sasuke until MT came out


King Itachi said:


> *Either Juubi Madara or Juubi Obito can stomp the living shit out of Current Naruto/Current Sasuke. *In the end, there is truly no explanation for the inconsistency and bullshit that Kishi writes.


No they dont stomp the livig hell out of naruto/sasuke,, the duo who has the power of the sage,,  either naruto/sasuke can fight if not then beat juubito, and can most likely fight/beat one rinnegan juudara,, 
if you have a problem with kishis inconsistency  then dont read  the manga


Shinobi no Kami said:


> 8 gated gai managed to beat up juubi jin madara pretty badly and said that fighting gai made him as excited as the time when he fought hashirama.
> 
> after gai activated his final technique, madara stated that gai was the best that he fought,* as far as taijutsu goes
> that means he has fought opponents above the level of 8 gated gai and that opponent is hashirama.*
> hashirama and madaras power level arent lacking.


@Bold - where diid u get the assumption that 8th gate guy = Hashirama  in taijutsu, 
hashirama is not above 8th gate guy,, the samme guy who ragdolled JJ madara, 



Shinobi no Kami said:


> naruto and sasuke dont come close to stomping hashirama and madara. that is merely a fanboys dream.
> 
> naruto is equal to sasuke, who like madara, has a perfect susano as his full power.


Naruto and sasuke have the power of hagoromo,,,,,, and are currently fighting the strongest character in the manga
that alone should be enough for you,, to understand that EMS Madara & Hashiramma are nothing compared to that power


Shinobi no Kami said:


> hashirama and madara shouldnt be underrated to the extent that they are. the bulk of naruto and sasukes power still comes from the fact that they are asura and indra reincarnations.
> 
> sasukes full power doesnt come from hagoromos power. it is his perfect susano.
> 
> ...


They are not underrated when they are simply outclassed by naruto/sasuke
naruto and sasuke received powers directly from hagoromo,,, 
it wasnnt  jus because  they were indra/ashura  reincarnations
--PS most likely isnt sasukes full power,,, i dont know where u came into that assumption
he hasnt even shown his rinnegans full potential yet
--Naruto chopped the god tree (which is one of the  most durable things in the manga) with only 1 YRS,, his TBBRS would nuke the duo off the planet


Shinobi no Kami said:


> madaras susano has the feats of cutting a mountain range that covers a lot more area than the shinju, with a *single swipe* of its blade.
> 
> *Spoiler*: __


Yet the entire onslaught of madara and hashirama where PS was used didnt even result in the god tree being remotely harmed,,, 
--narutos YRS choopped the entire tree completely


Shinobi no Kami said:


> *hashiramas shinsuusenju has 1000 hands that are each the size of a mountain. thats 1000 mountain busters, just for clarification.*
> 
> 
> that overpowers perfect susano with the kyuubi.
> ...


@Bold - what
hashirammas SS still doesnt  stand a chance against TBBRS and YRS,,  
and no way near has it shown the ability to bust 1000 mountains in one blow that is pure nonsense,, its DC is still not enough compared to naruto/sasuke,,,,

PS+Kyuubi is nothing  in front of the man with ALL bijuu and a portion of Hagoromos powers, 

naruto and sasuke do stomp,, you are being close-minded and butthurt


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## Ersa (Jun 27, 2014)

People need to seriously see how big those meteors were.

Like the Buddha is tiny compared to them.


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## ARGUS (Jun 27, 2014)

Ersatz said:


> People need to seriously see how big those meteors were.
> 
> Like the Buddha is tiny compared to them.


Thank you for showing the scan,, 
you can see the entire planet from the view and the meteors are still present,,,, 
these meteors would dwarf SS completely


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## Trojan (Jun 27, 2014)

Naruto fodderstopms with 2 or one of his TBBSFRS. 

Make this BSM Naruto, and EMS Sasuke, and they still win more times than not at the very least.
as BZ stated, they were already stronger than Hashirama and Madara. That's why they were able to
meet Hagoromo unlike Hashirama and madara. U_U


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## Trojan (Jun 27, 2014)

Ersatz said:


> People need to seriously see how big those meteors were.
> 
> Like the Buddha is tiny compared to them.



The sizes in this manga is not accurate though. Otherwise, even Yamato's Buddha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hashirama's Buddha.

Not as that will change much though, Naruto or Sasuke will fodderstomp them either way. U_U


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## Shinobi no Kami (Jun 27, 2014)

Kai said:


> So you're comparing Madara's level of excitement with power level?
> 
> Look how far you're reaching to match what you want to be true.


even if you try to disagree with that part, madara merely stated that gai was the best he faced as far as taijutsu goes, not overall.
that would imply that he fought stronger opponents. that would be hashirama.



richard lewis said:


> LOL bro what are you smoking? Naruto and sasuke where smacking around juubi jin madara like he was a rag doll. and juubi jin madara is leagues above hashirama and EMS madara's strength. Madara outright stated that he would loose if he didn't get his other rinnegan, and even when he got his other rinnegan naruto and sasuke where still keeping up with him.


show me some destructive feats from one eyed madara that puts him on hashirama and 2 eyed madaras level.




> Naruto sliced the god tree clean in half with YRS, and the god tree >= hashi's buddah and madara's PS. GTFO with you BS please!


both PS and shinsuusenju can deal with mountain busters. naruto cutting the shinju says nothing about how it would affect constructs that actually defend themselves. hashiramas mokuton and PS have better durability than the shinju anyways, unless you think hiruzens staff can destroy both.



Godaime Tsunade said:


> Uhh, let's put a few things into perspective here. The Madara that Eight Gated Gai fought had:
> 
> 
> Mokuton
> ...


listing powers doesnt work. i need to see feats. the scale of the techniques that one eyed juubi jin madara used was a joke. ems madara has better destructive feats than one eyed juubi jin madara. 




> The Madara that Hashirama fought was much, _much_ weaker. Eight Gated Gai putting a significantly stronger Madara under pressure is more impressive than Hashirama doing so with a weaker version. I should add, it has been outright stated on-panel that the power that the Eighth Gate gives to Gai is _above_ that of a Hokage. Eight Gated Gai > Hashirama. There's a reason Gai dies after opening that gate, it's because it is _incredibly_ powerful.


the madara that hashirama fought had 2 eyes and therefore had access to his full ocular powers.

kakashi stated that the 8th gate gives power that surpasses the gokage. madara already made a joke out of them with perfect susano.




> Sasuke's Perfect Susano'o can fly and is faster than Madara's Perfect Susano'o. It's obviously better. I should add, he possesses a Rinnegan, infinitely greater speed and reflexes, higher stamina and more versatility than EMS Madara.


more versatility? you better not be talking about chidori and katon variants because that isnt comparable to madaras PS. none of those would even breach a susano ribcage.




> So what? They are still feats that absolutely shit on anything Hashirama or Madara can do.


the destruction from hashirama and madara fight and VOTE surpass yin kuramas standard bijudama.




> Which Sasuke could obviously replicate.


so what? you completely missed my point.




> And Naruto *can bust countries* effortlessly, making Hashirama's statue fodder.


now isnt the time for nonsense.



ARGUS said:


> @Bold - where diid u get the assumption that 8th gate guy = Hashirama  in taijutsu,
> hashirama is not above 8th gate guy,, the samme guy who ragdolled JJ madara,



i never said that hashirama=gai in taijutsu. madara stated that gai was the best that he has ever fought as far as taijutsu was concerned, not overall.
that implies that he has fought someone stronger which is hashirama.



> Naruto and sasuke have the power of hagoromo,,,,,, and are currently fighting the strongest character in the manga
> that alone should be enough for you,, to understand that EMS Madara & Hashiramma are nothing compared to that power


hagoromos power gives them the ability to do what nobody else can which is seal kaguya. they are the main characters, so they will obviously get the spotlight.



> --PS most likely isnt sasukes full power,,, i dont know where u came into that assumption
> he hasnt even shown his rinnegans full potential yet


PS is the strongest thing that he has shown. you cant really argue beyond feats.



> --Naruto chopped the god tree (which is one of the  most durable things in the manga) with only 1 YRS,, his TBBRS would nuke the duo off the planet


the god tree isnt durable.


> Yet the entire onslaught of madara and hashirama where PS was used didnt even result in the god tree being remotely harmed,,,
> --narutos YRS choopped the entire tree completely


madara never used PS when the god tree was out.



> @Bold - what
> hashirammas SS still doesnt  stand a chance against TBBRS and YRS,,
> and no way near has it shown the ability to bust 1000 mountains in one blow that is pure nonsense,, its DC is still not enough compared to naruto/sasuke,,,,


each hand is as big as a mountain, and there are 1000 of them. each hand can bust a mountain.


> PS+Kyuubi is nothing  in front of the man with ALL bijuu and a portion of Hagoromos powers,
> 
> naruto and sasuke do stomp,, you are being close-minded and butthurt


sasuke matched naruto who has all of the biju with PS, yet PS is nothing? that doesnt sound bias at all.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Jun 27, 2014)

ARGUS said:


> @Bold - If naruto can destroy hashirmas mokuton techs easily, *then hashiramas mokutons simply arent enough here*




That doesn't make any sense. 
Even though Hashirama can push away Juubidama and suppress, either power is still a factor in any fight; the same thing goes for Naruto being able to destroy Mokuton constructs.

There are factors.
1. No knowledge
2. Mokuton is Naruto's natural weakness. 
3. Jukai Koutan has been portrayed as being able to push away Juubidama.

And Juubidama > anything in Naruto's arsenal

The fact that there's no knowledge means the fight can go either way, though...with advantage in the favor of Current Naruto/Current Sasuke.

So many people are cumming in their shorts because of Naruto/Sasuke and their abilities that are ridiculously overrated at this point. They aren't stomping Hashirama or Madara.



> --Sasukes PS is far more versatile and stronger than madaras,,, on top of that he also has the enton affinity,, his PS was chopping island sized meteors,, meaning that its DC is higher than Madaras PS & SS,,



Sasuke's PS isn't more versatile than Madara's PS, and his affinity for Enton is going to do nothing except be useless like it has always been. If Madara's PS had access to wings, it would chop those meteors in the same fashion, so I really don't know what you're getting at.

Because he wouldn't have another way to access those meteors (or firepower like Naruto), Kishi gave him the ability to fly in PS. Flapping like a bird isn't gonna help him in this situation... It will make his Susano'o more of a target for Shinsuusenju, where he momentarily gets shot out of the sky or dies in flight.



> not only thhat but his PS would also have higher durability seeing that the susanoo output is always lower than the amount of energy it can withstand,, with  that  being said,, sasukes PS bisects through Madaras PS,,, its not stupid to state such thing seeing that the man has the sages moon powers



Hagoromo's power is the sole reason why Sasuke is able to manifest a PS on Madara's level.

And what you said didn't make any sense whatsoever.
PS is widely known for its defensive ability - not offense - so it would actually be a stretch and ridiculously illogical to think Madara's PS can be bisected by Sasuke (or vice versa).

Comparing the diamonds on their heads, too, would also indicate that Madara's PS is still larger than Sasuke's PS...



> --Neither madara nor hashirama are countering sasukes S/T jutsu,, they will get severed in half and unliike JJ Madara (who mind you cudnt react),,, they are not survivng such a  fatal blow,, neither are  they any  where near JJ madaras level, who sasuke was fighting quite well against
> 
> What do you mean madara doesnt show the full potential of JJ,,
> he has the rinnegan, can use onmyoudon and TSB,, has CT and TBBs,, the fact that naruto and sasuke managed to overwhelm madara doesnt mean that he doesnt show the full potential, it just means that he couldnt handle them,,,,,,
> and if you are stating that current naruto and sasukke dont have JJ potential then u are mistaken,, they wouldve killed madara within seconds had it not been for his anotther rinnegan,, which was still handlled by naruto/sasuke until MT came out



No, they really don't. This wank needs to stop, man. 
Madara has EMS, Mokuton, Sage Mode and Juubi powers that haven't been used on the level Obito had shown. Heck, JJ Madara hasn't used Juubidama or anything. For the most part, he fights with Limbo and used CT to distract Naruto/Sauce while he initiated Mugen Tsukuyomi.

They don't stand a fucking chance against any version of Madara w/ Juubi that hasn't succumbed to plot-induced stupidity. I don't care if Base Naruto (lolz) kicked away a Gudoudama from JJ Madara (weakened) - with half of his chest torn apart - and proceeded to damage the tree via Yoton FRS. Mind you, Hashirama and Madara were also casually avoiding that weak tree, while it managed to rape Naruto in seconds.

Do you remember when Minato noticed how much stronger Madara appeared to be as JJ?
It wouldn't be very climatic for JJ Madara to end the story with fireworks and wipe Current Naruto/Current Sasuke off the face of the planet, would it?

If you disagree with that notion, you're just in complete denial.
Any Juubi Jin boasts more power than the *combined* likes of Naruto and Sasuke.



> Thhey are island sized meteors,, madaras PS at best can chop mountains, and SS hasnt shown the offense to destroy meteors of that size with only single blows,,
> PS & SS are not surviving CT of that level



Dude... Really?
Madara's PS fucking obliterated mountains. Are you saying that's his limit?

The output of Shinsuusenju is far stronger than Madara's PS and Sasuke's PS; that's not even worthy of comparison.



> No they dont stomp the livig hell out of naruto/sasuke,, the duo who has the power of the sage,,  either naruto/sasuke can fight if not then beat juubito, and can most likely fight/beat one rinnegan juudara,,



Sure, I can agree that the two are able to defeat Juubi Jins with a severe case of plot-induced stupidity. Like tanking attacks from Gai with 8 Gates and not entering Juubi transformations?

Fighting with just Limbo and only using CT to distract?

A Juubi Jin is capable of showing more power than anyone in the manga, but we're aware of the clear reasons as to why that hasn't been the case. Kishi even stated that he doesn't know how Madara can be defeated; he made him too powerful. Giving Naruto/Sasuke some power from Rikudou and adding massive PIS to Madara's side will fix a problem like that...



> if you have a problem with kishis inconsistency  then dont read  the manga



If you have a problem with logic, then shut the fuck up.
You don't have the right to tell anyone - on any level - to stop reading the manga because of your little disagreement. We're have a proper debate...not taking shots at each other. The reason why anyone thinks Naruto and Sasuke would casually defeat Juubi Jins is absolutely beyond me. If you're one of the individuals who agrees with such a notion, we're better off agreeing to disagree.


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## Dr. White (Jun 27, 2014)

Madara summons Kyuubi, Sasuke counters by Enton'ing it. Madara desummons it. He pulls out Susano, as Does Sasuke. They both pull out PS, but Sasuke's grabs Madara's and goes into flight mode. Madara's PS gets seismac tossed like Charizard used to do in the anime.

Meanwhile Hashirama creates a forest, but NAruto has seven clones out already. All of them start launching Lave style: FRS, and TBB Rasenshuriken, which forces Hashi into sage Mode. He creates a nation worth of forest, and Shinsensenju, but Naruto's DC and chakra levels are too much and their right levels a whole nation. Naruto wins low diff, but low diff to current Naruto is alot considering his current capacity.


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## Sans (Jun 28, 2014)

People using the Gai comparison need to remember that Naruto and Sasuke wrecked Madara until he re-absorbed the God Tree.

Naruto and Sasuke absolutely steamroll this match.


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## Bonly (Jun 28, 2014)

Komnenos said:


> People using the Gai comparison need to remember that* Naruto and Sasuke wrecked Madara until he re-absorbed the God Tree.*
> 
> Naruto and Sasuke absolutely steamroll this match.



Sasuke didn't even get to the battle field until after Madara re-absorbed the god tree.


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## richard lewis (Jun 28, 2014)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> show me some destructive feats from one eyed madara that puts him on hashirama and 2 eyed madaras level.



 the guy smacked around 9 buju like the were some rag dolls with rinbo hengoku, which by the way is undetectable to anyone w/o a rinnegan or RS lvl sensing abilities. So ems madara and hashirama would be getting smacked around by a jutsu that they can't even see and hence can't dodge.



Shinobi no Kami said:


> both PS and shinsuusenju can deal with mountain busters. naruto cutting the shinju says nothing about how it would affect constructs that actually defend themselves. hashiramas mokuton and PS have better durability than the shinju anyways, unless you think hiruzens staff can destroy both.



I'm not sure if your being serious or your just trolling....  the god tree can be seen from outerspace bro, its the size of small country. PS and shinsuusenju are mountain busters but YRS is a country buster, there not tanking that lmao.


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## Jagger (Jun 28, 2014)

King Itachi said:


> If you have a problem with logic, then shut the fuck up.




Also, IIRC, both Sasuke and Naruto were indeed wrecking a Juubi's Jinchuuriki to the point the latter had to run and get the other eye in order to beat them. So yeah, it is not beyond you to accept they can defeat one. After all, there's a reason of why Madara needed to absorb the God Tree and, then, retake his second eye to stand a chance.

And don't try to use "He was tired against Gai!" argument because Madara seemed to be fully recovered from that fight.


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## ATastyMuffin (Jun 28, 2014)

Not even exaggerating when I say this is one of the dumbest threads I've ever had the misfortune of witnessing.


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## trance (Jun 28, 2014)

> Mindset: Bloodlusted
> Restrictions: None.
> 
> This is current Naruto and Sasuke



You done fucked up. 

Either one can solo with extreme ease. They were holding their own against Juudara and his shadows and were casually dealing with his Chibaku Tensei where each planetoid was _at least_ as large as the Shinju stump.


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## Lurko (Jun 28, 2014)

This Is a fucking joke, either solo.


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## Kyu (Jun 28, 2014)

This fight was over before it began.

/Thread


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## Jagger (Jun 28, 2014)

And the fun thing is that Naruto's attack was used before he activated his chakra cloak.

And there are still some Bijuu's powers we haven't seen yet.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Jun 28, 2014)

To be honest, I don't even see Juudara with the second eye as being stronger than them, he won't get beaten like he was before but Naruto his overpowered his  Chikaku Tensei and Sasuke was dealing with him just about as well I'd say what puts him above them is MT which Sasuke actually has the means to deal with


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## ARGUS (Jun 28, 2014)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> i never said that hashirama=gai in taijutsu. madara stated that gai was the best that he has ever fought as far as taijutsu was concerned, not overall.
> that implies that he has fought someone stronger which is hashirama.


8th gate guy was pressuring JJ Madara to bits, Hashirama is not superior to him,,, 
besides 8th gate guy has got nothing to do with this match-up


> hagoromos power gives them the ability to do what nobody else can which is seal kaguya. they are the main characters, so they will obviously get the spotlight.
> 
> 
> PS is the strongest thing that he has shown. you cant really argue beyond feats.


His PS is still supperior to hashiramas SS and Madaras PS 


> the god tree isnt durable.


The god ttree is one of the most durable thing in  the manga,,,, 


> each hand is as big as a mountain, and there are 1000 of them. each hand can bust a mountain.


No.. i dont know how you came up with that


> sasuke matched naruto who has all of the biju with PS, yet PS is nothing? that doesnt sound bias at all.


Madaras PS =/= Sasukes  PS,,,


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## Amol (Jun 28, 2014)

Common sense is rare thing around here. I am astonished the there are some people here who could reach this level of dumbness. 
Naruto makes 100  RS Sage mode clones. Then he and sasuke enjoys the show .


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## kingcools (Jun 28, 2014)

lol either one of sasuke and naruto can solo hashirama and madara, babyshaking to the max


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## Cognitios (Jun 28, 2014)

Sasuke rouses his chakra and Madara dies
Naruto rouses his chakra and Hashirama dies.
It's a stomp, a pretty bad one too.


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## Shinobi no Kami (Jun 28, 2014)

richard lewis said:


> the guy smacked around 9 buju like the were some rag dolls with rinbo hengoku, which by the way is undetectable to anyone w/o a rinnegan or RS lvl sensing abilities. So ems madara and hashirama would be getting smacked around by a jutsu that they can't even see and hence can't dodge.



thats why madara killed gai with limbo right? he cannot see or sense it.

hashirama or madara would simply be throwing around too much power for limbo to be a factor



> I'm not sure if your being serious or your just trolling....  the god tree can be seen from outerspace bro, its the size of small country. PS and shinsuusenju are mountain busters but YRS is a country buster, there not tanking that lmao.


yrs cut an area equivalent to the shinjus width, not its height.


ARGUS said:


> 8th gate guy was pressuring JJ Madara to bits, Hashirama is not superior to him,,,
> besides 8th gate guy has got nothing to do with this match-up



you must be seriously dense if you couldnt understand the point of me bringing gai up. madara stated that gai was the best that he fought, as far as taijutsu is concerned, not overall. that statement implies that he fought somebody stronger than gai overall, which would be hashirama.
you bringing up gais feats against madara is pointless. madara already implied that he has fought better opponents overall which is hashirama, although gai is the best out of all of madaras opponents in taijutsu.



> His PS is still supperior to hashiramas SS and Madaras PS


it hasnt done anything that madaras PS couldnt.



> The god ttree is one of the most durable thing in  the manga,,,,


so tobirama, hiruzen, sasukes V3 susano and madara with his gunbai rips through PS and shinsuusenju like butter?



> No.. i dont know how you came up with that


each hand on shinsuusenju is as big as a mountain. you can tell just by looking at panels of the construct.



> Madaras PS =/= Sasukes  PS,,,



in design, sure.


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