# Kami Tenchi vs Living Tribunal



## realmathena1 (Dec 11, 2009)

Who wins in this fight?


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## Azrael Finalstar (Dec 11, 2009)

Oh God, you went there.


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## Hellspawn28 (Dec 11, 2009)

Kami Tenchi is the supreme leader of the Tenchi series, so I say just flip a coin since it's one of those Omnipotence battles that goes nowhere. I go with LT in this battle though since he has better feats since he was able to put two megaverses while able to retconned the Amalgam brothers at the sametime.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Dec 11, 2009)

Kami Tenchi should be able to rape. But he lacks the feats.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 11, 2009)

this will cause mess


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## ∅ (Dec 11, 2009)

Hellspawn28 said:


> Kami Tenchi is the supreme leader of the Tenchi series, so I say just flip a coin since it's one of those Omnipotence battle that goes nowhere.


I'm sorry that's not a legitimate way of arguing.

Tenchi Kane no Kami made one appearance in which he did nothing impressive but seducing the Counter-Actor.

If people actually watched the series they would know that next to nothing is confirmed about Tenchi Kane no Kami, other than that he was beyond the notice of the Chousin.


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## Hellspawn28 (Dec 11, 2009)

Not to mention LT powers are much greater then HOM Wanda who was able to wrap the whole omniverse which is much greater then anything that has been shown in the Tenchi Muyo ova's series.


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## Judas (Dec 11, 2009)

This could get messy.


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## Soledad Eterna (Dec 11, 2009)

Omnipotent beings battles are boring :/.


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## Tranquil Fury (Dec 11, 2009)

Using an omnipotent battle will lead to an entire argument about omnipotency. This will get messy but if we go with feats then LT would win otherwise Kami Tenchi. So it depends on the route you go here.

It's better to wait for Endless Mike, he's the Tenchi expert.


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## Untitled (Dec 11, 2009)

Omnipotent battles are boring, yes, but we've still come to an argument with others somehow.

TLT should win this fight due to feats. Tenchi should be omnipotent as is, although he has no feats to back it up.


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## Hellspawn28 (Dec 11, 2009)

Also The Amalgam bros are supposed to be represent of the two supreme leaders of Marvel and DC. And they where stated to destroy all of DC and Marvel, and it took LT to stop them.

How is this not cool?


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## Untitled (Dec 11, 2009)

Hellspawn28 said:


> Also The Amalgam bros are supposed to be represent of the two supreme leaders of Marvel and DC. And they where stated to destroy all of DC and Marvel, and it took LT to stop them.
> 
> How is this not cool?



And yet thats another feat right there, which is basically what Tenchi lacks. It's an omnipotence fight, but due to feats like I already said, TLT should win.

Oh and that link was a bit small


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## Erika Furudo (Dec 12, 2009)

I suppose feats take priority over almost everything?


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## Red Exodus (Dec 12, 2009)

Marly said:


> I suppose feats take priority over almost everything?



Since they're what's used as evidence of a character's capability and in the
case of an argument for a versus match, supremacy over another character,
I would say yes.


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## Lina Inverse (Dec 12, 2009)

I'd go with the omnipotent with feats really.


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## Kage no Yume (Dec 12, 2009)

Going by feats alone, Living Tribunal takes this.


But the fact that Tenchi is an omnipotent, whereas LT is under an omnipotent (he's not equal to TOAA is he?), means that Tenchi should win this fight.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Dec 12, 2009)

I'll tell you what, i'll put this in the disputed match section for tenchi on the wiki.


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## Lucaniel (Dec 12, 2009)

Kami is an omnipotent, LT is a nigh-omnipotent.

Seems easy to decide.


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## Pika305 (Dec 12, 2009)

∅ said:


> I'm sorry that's not a legitimate way of arguing.
> 
> Tenchi Kane no Kami made one appearance in which he did nothing impressive but seducing the Counter-Actor.
> 
> If people actually watched the series they would know that next to nothing is confirmed about Tenchi Kane no Kami, other than that he was beyond the notice of the Chousin.



Going from this has Kami been confirmed as an Omnipotent or just beyond the Chousins because the latter isn't Omnipotent?


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## ∅ (Dec 12, 2009)

How to best analyze the combatants?

Lets start off with feats, for obvious reasons.

Tsunami is the most powerful of the Chousin, her greatest accomplishment is the creation of ten dimensions, each succeeding with greater complexity than the previous.

She exists in the eleventh dimension (hyper-dimension) along with the other Chousin.

Not much was said about this entity that had a connection with Tenchi. But it's safe to assume he's higher than the Chousin since he was beyond their notice.

Assuming he exists in a 12th dimension, and created the 11th along with the Chousins who then proceeded by creating the remaining 10 dimensions.

Note that here dimension is used as Technobabble for universe, but it can also be read in the given context.

The Living Tribunal, however, has actuall existed in 16 dimensional space.



He also has a ton of other feats which would all dwarf "Kami Tenchi".

As for being "omnipotent".

The only ones called omnipotent in the Tenchi Muyo! series were the Chousin.

Then again so has the Living Tribunal.

There is no point in arguing that Kami Tenchi is supreme for two reasons.


It was never confirmed that he was supreme.
With this kind reasoning, Vegito would also be beyond the Living Tribunal.



Pika305 said:


> Going from this has Kami been confirmed as an Omnipotent or just beyond the Chousins because the latter isn't Omnipotent?


The Chousin proclaimed themselves as omnipotent. "Kami Tenchi" was only confirmed to be above them when he saved them from the Counter-Actor.


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## Pika305 (Dec 12, 2009)

So it's like when the Cube Beings proclaimed themselves Omnipotent then goes to say the Celestials are above them...


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## Shoddragon (Dec 12, 2009)

thats basically what is seems like to me. just some super uber guys who think they are omnipotent only for someone to wind up being stronger than they are.


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## Spectre (Dec 13, 2009)

Hellspawn28 said:


> Kami Tenchi is the supreme leader of the Tenchi series, so I say just flip a coin since it's one of those Omnipotence battles that goes nowhere. I go with LT in this battle though since *he has better feats since he was able to put two megaverses while able to retconned the Amalgam brothers at the sametime.*



That's the part I hate. Both brothers are imbodiments of DC and Marvel megaverses. If we accept that feat, doesn't that mean Living Tribunal is overseeing DC universe as well? I am still waiting for proof of omniverse=infinite amount of megaverses.


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## Endless Mike (Dec 13, 2009)

You do realize that you're using equivocation by claiming that the word "dimension" means the same thing in the context of two completely different fictional works, right?

Anyway the DC vs. Marvel thing was retconned so the whole thing was playing out of the LT's palm, but in the same scene he said he had to consult his "hooded, Spectral ally", meaning that the LT and Spectre were working together to set the whole thing up.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Dec 13, 2009)

^ What does this mean for the fight?


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## Endless Mike (Dec 13, 2009)

It means that it's really unquantifiable. The Tenchi multiverse/hyperdimension is expansive to an indetermined amount. LT has better quantifiable feats so you could award him the victory based on that but we don't really know enough to say for sure.


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## ∅ (Dec 13, 2009)

Endless Mike said:


> LT has better quantifiable feats so you could award him the victory based on that but we don't really know enough to say for sure.


Just like any other skyfather or higher.


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## Endless Mike (Dec 13, 2009)

Not really, lots of Skyfather+ beings have very solid limits.


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## Narcissus (Dec 13, 2009)

Shoddragon said:


> thats basically what is seems like to me. just some super uber guys who think they are omnipotent only for someone to wind up being stronger than they are.



Basically. The Chousin were not aware of any beings of higher authority than themselves, so the naturally and mistakenlly believed themselves to be omnipotent. Some time ago ∅ even tried to argue that their claim was true despite a good amount of evidence against it.


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## ∅ (Dec 13, 2009)

Narcissus said:


> Basically. The Chousin were not aware of any beings of higher authority than themselves, so the naturally *and mistakenlly believed themselves to be omnipotent*. Some time ago ∅ even tried to argue that their claim was true *despite a good amount of evidence against it.*


Thank you for misinterpreting my argument, but at this point I couldn't really expect more of you.

I said that they were omnipotent by actual definition, not the contradicting interpretation used in the OBD. I further proved this by a screen shot from the series.

Also you suggest that they proclaimed themselves to be omnipotent before they knew of Kami Tenchi. While, if you'd watch the series you'd know that this was not long *after* Kami Tenchi appeared and rescued them.

You who apparently haven't watched the series suggest that I'm wrong, even though I've watched it and even brought proof whereas no opposing evidence (like you suggest) was even mentioned.


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## Narcissus (Dec 13, 2009)

∅ said:


> Thank you for misinterpreting my argument, but at this point I couldn't really expect more of you.



Poisoning the Well. 

And let's not get into what we can "expect" from one another, considering your claim that Jafar was beyond anything in the Tenchiverse.



> I said that they were omnipotent by actual definition, not the contradicting interpretation used in the OBD. I further proved this by a screen shot from the series.



Please provide the source of your "actual definition." 


*Spoiler*: _Webster's definition on omnipotent_ 





"Having virtually unlimited authority or influence"




This certainly isn't the OBD's definition, and the Chousin showed quite a few limits, so even by that one they still are not omnipotent.

And what you posted was a screen shot of a fallible character statement, not proof.



> Also you suggest that they proclaimed themselves to be omnipotent before they knew of Kami Tenchi. While, if you'd watch the series you'd know that this was not long *after* Kami Tenchi appeared and rescued them.



Claiming nonsense such as "YOU HAVEN'T WATCHED THE SERIES" is childish and illogical considering you have no real proof of it and I know that I have indeed watched it. Anyway, this claptrap of yours will go no where, so moving on...

The Chousin still do not know who or what Kami Tenchi is, so they still made their claim. They even admit that there could still be beings higher than themselves, but they are not sure, when Ryoko makes a comment on it. 

In other words, they still do not know, but they made their claim regardless.



> You who apparently haven't watched the series suggest that I'm wrong, even though I've watched it and even brought proof whereas no opposing evidence (like you suggest) was even mentioned.



Except there was proof that the Chousin do not possess unlimited authority. 


The Chousin could not overcome the Counteractor.
Tokimi could not stop Z without destroying the universe.
They do not have authority over each other.

Then there is their claim of "omnisience" as well. 


*Spoiler*: _Webster’s definition of omniscient_ 



"having infinite awareness, understanding, and insight; possessed of universal or complete knowledge"






The Chousin were not aware of Kami Tenchi.
They were not aware whether or not there were beings beyond themselves in general.
Tokimi was unaware that Z had found the Counteractor.

So no, the Chousin are neither omnipotent nor omniscient as they claimed, but rather nigh-omnipotent/nigh-omniscient.


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## ∅ (Dec 13, 2009)

Narcissus said:


> Poisoning the Well.


 Wrong on so many levels.



> Poisoning the well (or attempting to poison the well) is a logical fallacy where adverse information about a target is pre-emptively presented to an audience, with the intention of discrediting or ridiculing everything that the target person *is about to say*.



The bold part, "is about to say"--the reply I replied to was already made. I can't poison the well when I'm commenting on something already written.

Now that we've had out daily dose of stupid lets move on (or so one would think).



Narcissus said:


> And let's not get into what we can "expect" from one another, considering your claim that Jafar was beyond anything in the Tenchiverse.


Straw man, what I said was that he implied that he was capable of feats beyond that of what's implied in the Tenchi Muyo! series. That point, as well remain unrefuted. So what you suggest to be wrong is something you can't prove to be wrong.



Narcissus said:


> Please provide the source of your "actual definition."
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: _Webster's definition on omnipotent_
> ...


Do you suffer from dyslexia? Because virtually isn't the same as visually. 



			
				merriam-webster said:
			
		

> Virtually
> 
> 1 : almost entirely : nearly





Narcissus said:


> And what you posted was a screen shot of a fallible character statement, not proof.


With this reasoning every single statement made in the Tenchi Muyo! series is fallible thus tearing down your entire argument.

The Chousin were explaining the situation of the event after they were rescued for the viewers. Which would essentially be as any other narration.



Narcissus said:


> Claiming nonsense such as "YOU HAVEN'T WATCHED THE SERIES" is childish and illogical considering you have no real proof of it and I know that I have indeed watched it.


It doesn't change the fact that you haven't. When you keep on trying to guess what happen, and each and every guess turns out to be wrong then it's obvious that you haven't watched the series. I comment on this to clarify that you have next to no idea of what you're talking about.



Narcissus said:


> The Chousin still do not know who or what Kami Tenchi is, so they still made their claim. They even admit that there could still be beings higher than themselves, but they are not sure, when Ryoko makes a comment on it.


They recognized him as a higher entity, yet still recognize themselves as omnipotents.



Narcissus said:


> In other words, they still do not know, but they made their claim regardless.


They knew there were at least one entity superior to them. Either way how can you say that Kami Tenchi is omnipotent, when it isn't even clarified in the series that he is supreme--since that's basically your interpretation of omnipotence, being supreme.



Narcissus said:


> Except there was proof that the Chousin do not possess unlimited authority.
> 
> 
> The Chousin could not overcome the Counteractor.
> ...


Virtually unlimited authority*.



Narcissus said:


> Then there is their claim of "omnisience" as well.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: _Webster’s definition of omniscient_
> ...


Again with the guessing. They had omniscience, their knowledge was infinite, this was reiterated throughout the story. This was also confirmed after the appearance of Kami Tenchi.

There are levels of infinity, apparently their level didn't measure up to Kami Tenchi or the Counter-Actor.


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