# Doflamingo vs Vista



## Luke (Jul 10, 2014)

Location: Marineford 

Intel: Full 

Distance: 20 Meters 

Both are bloodlusted, no restrictions. 

Who wins?


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## Ruse (Jul 10, 2014)

I'll go with Doflamingo not sure what diff though. 

I know Vista held off Mihawk but I honestly think Doflamingo could do the same I'll probably get shit for saying that but I honestly don't give two shits.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Jul 10, 2014)

Until we see how Luffy handles Parasite, I'm giving this match to Doflamingo.


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## Ruse (Jul 10, 2014)

Inb4 Vista is a top tier


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## Magentabeard (Jul 10, 2014)

Vista didn't just hold off Mihawk. they had a legitimate fight and it was a stalemate. Vista was trusted to deal with  Mihawk, he's not getting tossed away. Mihawk would have to win after a long time.
Doflamingo is going down to Luffy. Even if the circumstances aren't "fair" they won't be so rigged in Luffy's favour that Luffy is still nowhere near his level. The worst that could happen is a Law Luffy tag team....

IMO Vista wins anywhere between high and extreme diff


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## zoro (Jul 10, 2014)

Feats tell me Doflamingo, guts tell me Vista. I'll go with my guts, high high diff


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## Ruse (Jul 10, 2014)

We don't even know if Luffy will solo Doffy so I don't understand why people use that argument in any vs thread involving Mingo.


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## NO (Jul 10, 2014)

Issho D Tea said:


> Until we see how Luffy handles Parasite, I'm giving this match to Doflamingo.


Why is Parasite the deciding factor? Is using haki, being strong, or a combination of the 2 just not a good enough counter? You seem to be implying Parasite is invincible and it's not the first time I've read this.

Since Vista does not have many feats, I'm going with Doflamingo mid-diff.


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## Magician (Jul 10, 2014)

Mingo, high-extreme diff.


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## Dunno (Jul 10, 2014)

Doflamingo mid-high diff.


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## trance (Jul 10, 2014)

IMO, it can either way but I'm leaning towards Doffy with extreme difficulty.


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## barreltheif (Jul 10, 2014)

jayjay32 said:


> Why is Parasite the deciding factor? *Is using haki, being strong, or a combination of the 2 just not a good enough counter?* You seem to be implying Parasite is invincible and it's not the first time I've read this.
> 
> Since Vista does not have many feats, I'm going with Doflamingo mid-diff.




Maybe, but it's very unlikely that Vista's strength and Haki would be enough to allow him to escape when Jozu's strength and Haki weren't enough. Though of course, with intel Vista won't get caught as easily as Jozu was.

I agree with Doffy winning mid diff.


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## kidgogeta (Jul 10, 2014)

IDK Vista was willing to clash with a really pissed off Akainu and came out unharmed albeit only able to delay him. Doflamingo comes off looking afraid of Aokij. The portrayal against admirals has Vista looking slightly better so I'm on the fence.


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## Ether (Jul 10, 2014)

I'm going with Doflamingo with very high diff.

His haki, DF and physical strength are on par with Vista's swordplay.

Doflamingo has Overheat, Parasite, Bird Cage, Five Color Strings, and Bullet String which overall is a higher offensive capability than Vista has shown.

For defense, he has his string clones, his haki and his own physical strength to protect him from sword slices.

He should win more times than not.


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## Slenderman (Jul 11, 2014)

Doffy high-extreme diff. 

Maybe in the future Oda will show Vista to be stronger. But as of now, I think it's safe to say Dofla wins.


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## Juda (Jul 11, 2014)

Doffy , low dif . Vista is more of a short short range user from what I can see . Doflamingo can still attack you from long range which i believe will be the deciding factor .


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## zoro (Jul 11, 2014)

Juda said:


> Doffy , low dif . Vista is more of a short short range user from what I can see . Doflamingo can still attack you from long range which i believe will be the deciding factor .



Swordsmen in One Piece can attack from mid and long range too


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## tanman (Jul 11, 2014)

Doflamingo, high diff.
I feel pretty confident in that.
Doflamingo ~ Jozu > Yami Teach ~ Vista > Ace ~ Luffy



Kinjishi no Shiki said:


> Swordsmen in One Piece can attack from mid and long range too



It's entirely possible for a swordsman to be limited to close range. And Vista fits the bill.
Even if he did have the range of someone like Zoro, that's not even close to Dofla's range.


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## Extravlad (Jul 11, 2014)

Vista is stronger than Doflamingo stop denying facts.
Dofla run away from Kuzan, Vista has the trust of Marco to stalemate Mihawk a Yonko lvl fighter.

Jozu/Vista are toptier, Doflamingo is the strongest hightier.


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## trance (Jul 11, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> Vista is stronger than Doflamingo stop denying facts.
> Dofla run away from Kuzan, Vista has the trust of Marco to stalemate Mihawk a Yonko lvl fighter.
> 
> Jozu/Vista are toptier, Doflamingo is the strongest hightier.



Except Mihawk isn't a Yonko level fighter. He's much weaker than that. He's likely a bit stronger than Jozu but that's about it.


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## TheWiggian (Jul 11, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> Except Mihawk isn't a Yonko level fighter. He's much weaker than that. He's likely a bit stronger than Jozu but that's about it.



yeye keep dreaming

back to topic:
*Vista high diff.*


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## Canute87 (Jul 11, 2014)

I'm gonna give it to Flamingo.


People always claimed that Mihawk could end it any time he wanted so i don't know where this supposed hype comes from for vista.  Well he had croc clashing directly with the man and not getting owned as Mr 1 did.


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## GrizzlyClaws (Jul 11, 2014)

Doffy high diff, with full intel it might go either way.


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## Shanks (Jul 11, 2014)

Dofla should win this. Not sure about difficulties. Between high to extreme I guess.


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## LyricalMessiah (Jul 11, 2014)

Doflamingo should win this. Depending on how convenient his ability is against vista, he should win with mid diff, otherwise he wins with only high diff.


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## LyricalMessiah (Jul 11, 2014)

giving it to Doffy as I said. Strings will be hard for Vista to counter.


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## Bohemian Knight (Jul 11, 2014)

Jozu>Vista>=Doflamingo>=Yami Teach>Ace.


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## Ruse (Jul 11, 2014)

^^Jozu > Doflamingo >= Vista >= Yami Teach > Ace


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## X18999 (Jul 11, 2014)

I can't believe people still believe Vista is top tier... Doflamingo takes this.


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## Krippy (Jul 11, 2014)

Marco > Yami Teach > Mingo > Ace ~ Jozu ~ Vista 

Vista fucks him up but mingo should edge this.


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## monkey d ace (Jul 11, 2014)

flamingo no more than mid-high diff. the hype vista gets from briefly stalling an un-serious mihawk is ridiculous. especially when he was a non-factor against akainu. law stalled both flamingo and fujitora for a way, waaay longer period of time, yet he doesn't get half the hype vista does.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Jul 11, 2014)

monkey d ace said:


> flamingo no more than mid-high diff. the hype vista gets from briefly stalling an un-serious mihawk is ridiculous. especially when he was a non-factor against akainu. law stalled both flamingo and fujitora for a way, waaay longer period of time, yet he doesn't get half the hype vista does.


The difference is that Doflamingo and Issho were toying with Law, Law was just trying to stay alive long enough for Nami and co to reach his position, whereas Vista stalemated Mihawk for a lengthened period of time.


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## monkey d ace (Jul 11, 2014)

Issho D Tea said:


> The difference is that Doflamingo and Issho were toying with Law, Law was just trying to stay alive long enough for Nami and co to reach his position, whereas Vista stalemated Mihawk for a lengthened period of time.


it's not like mihawk was fighting seriously anyways, but even so, the fact that law was taking on both fuji and DD for nearly 11 chapters, should be more than enough to make up for that, since vista clash with mihawk didn't last a single chapter iirc.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Jul 11, 2014)

monkey d ace said:


> it's not like mihawk was fighting seriously


A casual swing from  Mihawk split an iceberg as an aftereffect. And Vista wasn't serious in that fight either.


monkey d ace said:


> anyways, but even so, the fact that law was taking on both fuji and DD for nearly 11 chapters, should be more than enough to make up for that


How is running away from one of the highest high tiers and an Admiral (who were toying with Law) better than stalemating the WGS?


monkey d ace said:


> since vista clash with mihawk didn't last a single chapter iirc.


Two chapters, actually, when they first clash, then the next, where Mihawk chose to call off the match.


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## Ruse (Jul 11, 2014)

Vista is both overrated and underrated I do think some blow his fight with Mihawk a little out of proportion to hype up Vista.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Jul 11, 2014)

ThatBlackGuy said:


> Vista is both overrated and underrated I do think some blow his fight with Mihawk a little out of proportion to hype up Vista.


Pretty much. Was it a good feat for Vista to hold his own against Mihawk? Yes. But as far we know, Doflamingo could have done the exact same thing.


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## Ruse (Jul 11, 2014)

Issho D Tea said:


> Pretty much. Was it a good feat for Vista to hold his own against Mihawk? Yes. But as far we know,* Doflamingo could have done the exact same thing*.



Some use the Mihawk clash to suggest that Vista is a top tier, I'd be more inclined to believe that if Akainu felt more than irritated by his bloodlusted slash. 

I agree with you on the Doffy bit no way would he get fodderized by Mihawk but of course some will say otherwise for err various reasons. 

After much thought I'd say Doffy high/extreme diffs Vista, I'm not convinced he could deal with parasite.


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## Magentabeard (Jul 11, 2014)

Why do people use the Vista + Marco vs Akainu feat to only downplay Vista? If Vista is a non factor against Akainu then so is Marco. Not that I agree that either of them are, but people seem to conveniently forget that Marco was given the same portrayal as Vista in that scene.


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## Magician (Jul 11, 2014)

Issho D Tea said:


> The difference is that Doflamingo and Issho were toying with Law, Law was just trying to stay alive long enough for Nami and co to reach his position, whereas Vista stalemated Mihawk for a lengthened period of time.



They were toying with Law? When was that stated?


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## Kaiser (Jul 11, 2014)

Magentabeard said:


> Why do people use the Vista + Marco vs Akainu feat to only downplay Vista? If Vista is a non factor against Akainu then so is Marco. Not that I agree that either of them are, but people seem to conveniently forget that Marco was given the same portrayal as Vista in that scene.


Actually i believe people misinterpretated that scene. Akainu did got hurt by their attacks, hence his tonation after getting hit. The argument of not getting hurt is only to wank Admirals out of proportions i believe(as always)


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## barreltheif (Jul 11, 2014)

How many times do we need to go over the Marco/Vista/Akainu scene?
Marco and Vista did not connect with Akainu's real body. If they had, he would be dead or at least severely injured. This certainly doesn't mean that Marco and Vista can never connect. It just means that they won't always connect.


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## Kaiser (Jul 11, 2014)

Well i don't know how he escaped death, but what i'm certain about is that he felt those blows, hence his tonation. The tonation was made exactly for us reader to understand that. Maybe their haki just barely bypassed Akainu's enough for him to feel pain(but him surviving), maybe it's his logia ability that allowed him to survive somehow(by using an external magma shield body?), but what i'm sure about is that he felt those blows


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## Dunno (Jul 11, 2014)

Magentabeard said:


> Why do people use the Vista + Marco vs Akainu feat to only downplay Vista? If Vista is a non factor against Akainu then so is Marco. Not that I agree that either of them are, but people seem to conveniently forget that Marco was given the same portrayal as Vista in that scene.



That's because Marco is the "First Mate of the WB pirates", was able to "stalemate" Kizaru and is "Admiral level" . There no way his attack wouldn't work if he wanted it to, so the only logical conclusion we can draw is that he didn't want to hurt Akainu and thus held back. Vista on the other hand is a swordsman, so he obviously went all-out. Now this might seem a bit stupid or trollish, but it's actually the general consensus.

@Blake: Akainu made exactly the same sound when Crocodile cleaved him in two. Does that mean he felt Crocodile's attack too?


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## Ruse (Jul 11, 2014)

Magentabeard said:


> Why do people use the Vista + Marco vs Akainu feat to only downplay Vista? If Vista is a non factor against Akainu then so is Marco. Not that I agree that either of them are, but people seem to conveniently forget that Marco was given the same portrayal as Vista in that scene.



Except Marco had already shown he wasn't a non factor against someone very close to Akainu in power (Kizaru, and the fact that Akainu failed to bypass his regen) which is the reason why why his standing isn't questioned from that Akainu clash like Vista's is. Anyway I never said Vista was a non factor all I said is I don't think he's a top tier.


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## Kaiser (Jul 11, 2014)

ThatBlackGuy said:


> Except Marco had already shown he wasn't a non factor against someone very close to Akainu in power (Kizaru, and the fact that Akainu failed to bypass his regen) which is the reason why why his standing isn't questioned from that Akainu clash like Vista's is. Anyway I never said Vista was a non factor all I said is I don't think he's a top tier.


Well Marco was the only one put to test against Kizaru, so you can't use that as a mean to downgrade Vista. They were only put in parallel once(against Akainu) and their attacks had similar effects on Akainu, so if anything that scene was to show Vista and Marco have similar haki mastery. I think it's also worth mentioning neither of them were surprised Akainu survived, so i don't think that scene was to show a sort of inferiority or anything. Marco trusted him to support him against Akainu and they fought during the rest of the chapter without problems after all



Dunno said:


> @Blake: Akainu made exactly the same sound when Crocodile cleaved him in two. Does that mean he felt Crocodile's attack too?


When?


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## Dunno (Jul 11, 2014)

Blake said:


> When?


Crocodile: 

"!!!?"

followed by "NNN..."


Vista/Marco:
"!!!?" followed by "Ngh..."


I guess it wasn't exactly the same to the letter, but close enough. Could even be just a difference in translation, and actually be the same in the raw, who knows


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## Amol (Jul 11, 2014)

Dunno said:


> That's because Marco is the "First Mate of the WB pirates", was able to "stalemate" Kizaru and is "Admiral level" . There no way his attack wouldn't work if he wanted it to, so the only logical conclusion we can draw is that he didn't want to hurt Akainu and thus held back. Vista on the other hand is a swordsman, so he obviously went all-out. Now this might seem a bit stupid or trollish, but it's actually the general consensus.


This is a general consensus?
Really ?
because there is nothing logical in it .


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## Typhon (Jul 12, 2014)

Amol said:


> This is a general consensus?
> Really ?
> because there is nothing logical in it .



Pretty sure he was being sarcastic with the quotation marks.


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## Arcana (Jul 12, 2014)

Going with Dofla high diff.


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## Harard (Jul 12, 2014)

Vista      .


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## Lord Stark (Jul 12, 2014)

Doflamingo based on feats is rapidly approaching Marco levels.  He's certainly above Jozu and Vista imo.


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## Sablés (Jul 12, 2014)

Doflamingo with a fair amount of difficulty.


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## Dunno (Jul 12, 2014)

Amol said:


> This is a general consensus?
> Really ?
> because there is nothing logical in it .





Typhon said:


> Pretty sure he was being sarcastic with the quotation marks.



It is actually the general consensus. The quotation marks are there because I don't agree with it. And the general consensus in seldom logical, in One Piece or in real life.


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## monkey d ace (Jul 12, 2014)

Issho D Tea said:


> A casual swing from  Mihawk split an iceberg as an aftereffect. And Vista wasn't serious in that fight either.
> 
> How is running away from one of the highest high tiers and an Admiral (who were toying with Law) better than stalemating the WGS?
> 
> Two chapters, actually, when they first clash, then the next, where Mihawk chose to call off the match.


yet mihawk didn't do anything remotely close against vista, not to mention half of the on-panel parts in their clash was mihawk staring at luffy while fending vista off, just shows u how serious mihawk was. so u think vista can stall the WGS without being serious? well, what do u know, he might be a top tier afterall. but that doesn't make any sense when he was a non-factor against akainu so....
well, i can tell u for certain that slicing and tossing meteors >>> anything vista did against mihawk.
not really, since they start their scrap half way the chapter and end it half way the next one. and chapters in MF arc are shorter than ur average chapter. so when compared to law's 10+ average chapters it's nothing really.


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## X18999 (Jul 12, 2014)

Like a said before... fighting someone for a few moments doesn't put you on their level.  Saying Vista is top tier for fighting Mihawk for a second means Zoro and Law are the same.


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## Harard (Jul 13, 2014)

X18999 said:


> Like a said before... fighting someone for a few moments doesn't put you on their level.  Saying Vista is top tier for fighting Mihawk for a second means Zoro and Law are the same.



Bad example. Zoro and Law certainly are in the same general level.


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## barreltheif (Jul 13, 2014)

Harard said:


> Bad example. Zoro and Law certainly are in the same general level.




Huh? Law and Zoro are on the same level as each other, but not on the same level as Fujitora.


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## trance (Jul 13, 2014)

monkey d ace said:


> yet mihawk didn't do anything remotely close against vista, *not to mention half of the on-panel parts in their clash was mihawk staring at luffy while fending vista off, just shows u how serious mihawk was*.



It was one extremely brief glare. Quit this senseless downplaying. 



> so u think vista can stall the WGS without being serious?



Reread the fight. He was enjoying himself.



> well, what do u know, he might be a top tier afterall. but that doesn't make any sense when he was a non-factor against akainu so....



So, I guess Marco is a non-factor too. 

Whitebeard is a non-factor against Kuzan since he couldn't hit him while Jozu can. Jozu > Whitebeard. 

Do you see the pattern? It's all a matter of making who to portray well and who not to. This is an example of MF controversy. Failing to hit an Admiral once doesn't mean they will fail _every single time._


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## Daisuke Jigen (Jul 13, 2014)

monkey d ace said:


> yet mihawk didn't do anything remotely close against vista, not to mention half of the on-panel parts in their clash was mihawk staring at luffy while fending vista off


Mihawk stared at Luffy for one panel, and that imo was just Oda's way of showing how the rest of the cast are impressed with Luffy's ability to make allies so easily.


monkey d ace said:


> just shows u how serious mihawk was. so u think vista can stall the WGS without being serious?


Stall him? Certainly, Jozu (a high tier) was able to do the same with Aokiji (a top tier). Push him to the limit? No, but I also don't think Mihawk could low diff Vista, because if Mihawk could have stomped Vista, why did he choose to run like a bitch?


monkey d ace said:


> well, what do u know, he might be a top tier afterall.


Excuse me? I never said that Vista was top tier.


monkey d ace said:


> but that doesn't make any sense when he was a non-factor against akainu so....


Vista only failed to make Akainu (the strongest Admiral and someone stronger than Mihawk) tangible once. It's not a guarantee that every other blow would be unsuccessful.


monkey d ace said:


> well, i can tell u for certain that slicing and tossing meteors >>> anything vista did against mihawk.


Yes, Law was able to redirect Issho's meteors, that's what his powers allow him to do. Do you really think Vista wouldn't be able to cut meteors himself? And once again, Issho and Doflamingo were toying with Law, they could and would have steamrolled him at anytime if they wanted to. Vista was actually fighting Mihawk for a lengthened period of time and he was able to force Mihawk to call off the match.


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Jul 13, 2014)

Dolfa low-mid diffs him.


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## Ruse (Jul 13, 2014)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> Dolfa low-mid diffs him.



Really? How strong do you think Doflamingo is?


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## barreltheif (Jul 13, 2014)

Doflamingo no-diffed Sanji. It wasn't even low diff. Unless you think Vista is far, far above Sanji, there isn't anything crazy about thinking that Doflamingo would mid-diff Vista.

So it looks like most people agree that Vista would give Doffy either mid or high diff, while there are a few people who think that Vista would win and a few who think that Doffy would only need low diff. Good to know where people stand.


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## Magentabeard (Jul 13, 2014)

barreltheif said:


> Doflamingo no-diffed Sanji. It wasn't even low diff. Unless you think Vista is far, far above Sanji, there isn't anything crazy about thinking that Doflamingo would mid-diff Vista.



Okay, but how do you think Doflamingo would fare against Mihawk?


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## barreltheif (Jul 13, 2014)

Magentabeard said:


> Okay, but how do you think Doflamingo would fare against Mihawk?




Depends on knowledge and state of mind. Typically it might be mid diff, but on a good day it could be a high diff fight. As expected of perhaps the strongest pirate captain after the Yonkou and a saga antagonist in the New World.
Vista would reliably give Mihawk a solid low diff fight, no less than what I'd expect of an above average Yonkou subordinate who once appeared in several panels and even spoke a few lines.


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## Ruse (Jul 13, 2014)

barreltheif said:


> Depends on knowledge and state of mind. *Typically it might be mid diff, but on a good day it could be a high diff fight*. As expected of perhaps the strongest pirate captain after the Yonkou and a saga antagonist in the New World.
> Vista would reliably give Mihawk a solid low diff fight, no less than what I'd expect of an above average Yonkou subordinate who once appeared in several panels and even spoke a few lines.



Agree with this 100% but some will try and bullshit with "lol Mihawk would stomp Doffy he's Yonko level" but to be fair to Vista I think he would've taken Mihawk to mid/mid high diff.


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## monkey d ace (Jul 13, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> It was one extremely brief glare. Quit this senseless downplaying.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


marco standing against the admiral was shown throughout MF, so he gets the benefit of the doubt, vista just doesn't. also vista didn't add anything to table there,marco alone could stall any admiral on his own no problems, vista and the rest of WB commanders helping out marco didn't change anything, more or less, hence why they were non-factors.
aokigi situation is different, because he made a hole in his own body to avoid WB's bisento, also WB was having health issues, therefore he couldn't use his haki most of the time. vista/akainu situation is not the same at all.



Issho D Tea said:


> Mihawk stared at Luffy for one panel, and that imo was just Oda's way of showing how the rest of the cast are impressed with Luffy's ability to make allies so easily.
> 
> Stall him? Certainly, Jozu (a high tier) was able to do the same with Aokiji (a top tier). Push him to the limit? No, but I also don't think Mihawk could low diff Vista, because if Mihawk could have stomped Vista, why did he choose to run like a bitch?
> 
> ...


and that's out of the few panels we got of their brief clash.
can jozu do the same without actually fighting seriously? i doubt it. 
yeah, right. if it wasn't for the marines plan, and mihawk not fighting seriously(as he was most of the time), vista's head would be rolling under mihawk's feet. 
he made mihawk run like a bitch. sounds like a top tier to me.
nothing suggest otherwise. and that's not the only thing suggesting vista's a non-factor. marco alone is enough to stall akainu, vista didn't add anything there. plus akainu was the one who's pressuring them, not the opposite. so other than marco, they had just numbers.
and just because its' a DF does not take anything out of the feat. i have a hard time imagining vista cutting that meteor without getting a nice burn. the 'lengthened' period of time is less than 1/10th of law's time.


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## LyricalMessiah (Jul 13, 2014)

damn, monkey d ace solo'ing this thread


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## Lawliet (Jul 13, 2014)

Replace the current storyline with vista instead of doflamingo.
All the seats remain the same, all men remain the same, just switch dofla and vista.
You think dressrosa's leader (Vista) would still be in his palace right now? Probably not, here's your answer.


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## barreltheif (Jul 13, 2014)

^LOL, the idea of Vista being a saga antagonist of the NW is hilarious.


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## trance (Jul 13, 2014)

monkey d ace said:


> marco standing against the admiral was shown throughout MF, so he gets the benefit of the doubt,



Marco could do literally, no damage to any of the Admirals. Stop spouting such nonsense. 



> vista just doesn't. also vista didn't add anything to table there,marco alone could stall any admiral on his own no problems, vista and the rest of WB commanders helping out marco didn't change anything, more or less, hence why they were non-factors.



Marco couldn't even keep Curiel from getting oneshotted. He is a nonfactor against an Admiral. 



> aokigi situation is different, because he made a hole in his own body to avoid WB's bisento



Prove this. 



> also WB was having health issues, *therefore he couldn't use his haki most of the time*.



Prove he couldn't use BH.


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## monkey d ace (Jul 13, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> Marco could do literally, no damage to any of the Admirals. Stop spouting such nonsense.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


marco managed to make 2/3 of the admirals tangible. what's nonsense is claiming marco can't do any damage to the admirals, but argue vista might just can. 

meh, ur resorting to trolling now, and i'm not exactly in the mood for it.


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## tanman (Jul 13, 2014)

Long story short.
Doflamingo's feats are better than Vista's feats.
Doflamingo's hype is much better than Vista's hype.


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## trance (Jul 13, 2014)

monkey d ace said:


> marco managed to make 2/3 of the admirals tangible. what's nonsense is claiming marco can't do any damage to the admirals



No damage was dealt. Marco has zero offense. 



> meh, ur resorting to trolling now, and i'm not exactly in the mood for it.



>No scans

Concession accepted.


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## Zooted (Jul 13, 2014)

Doffy extreme diff



monkey d ace said:


> also WB was having health issues, therefore he couldn't use his haki most of the time.



How does health issues affect haki?


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## Orca (Jul 13, 2014)

I used to believe Doflamingo was even stronger than Jozu but lately I'm not too sure. At this point I rank him below Jozu and a little above vista.

Though seeing how his fight will go down with Luffy and seeing what kind of opponents Luffy gets after doffy and before a Yonko would help a lot in determining where doffy stands on the power spectrum.

Doflamingo was able to restrain Jozu but Oda has the tendency to overhype his villains a bit especially if they are hax. On the other hand vista fought a solid top tier which atleast solidifies the fact that this wouldn't be an easy fight.

I give this to doffy based just on gut feeling.


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## GrizzlyClaws (Jul 14, 2014)

lol @Marco being a nonfactor against an Admiral.

People are not even trying anymore when they are trolling.


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## Extravlad (Jul 14, 2014)

> Doflamingo's feats are better than Vista's feats.


Which version of One Piece do you read?
The one written by Dofla's fanboys?

Vista fighting Mihawk for 2 chapters >>>>> everything Doffy did so far.


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## monkey d ace (Jul 14, 2014)

Nova said:


> Doffy extreme diff
> 
> 
> 
> How does health issues affect haki?


wasn't it the reason he couldn't use HH to knock the 2 executioners out?


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## LyricalMessiah (Jul 14, 2014)

Can someone just lock this thread? getting stupid tbh


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## Zooted (Jul 14, 2014)

monkey d ace said:


> wasn't it the reason he couldn't use HH to knock the 2 executioners out?



If Luffy underwater was able to use Haki wouldn't it make sense for WB to be able to use haki as well under weaken condition such as illness? Haki is a willpower thing, being weaken physically won't harm the user mentally.


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## monkey d ace (Jul 14, 2014)

Nova said:


> If Luffy underwater was able to use Haki wouldn't it make sense for WB to be able to use haki as well under weaken condition such as illness? Haki is a willpower thing, being weaken physically won't harm the user mentally.


being underwater and being physically ill are not the same thing, but even if it was, ur still wrong. since luffy was still able to use his DF(only a part of him was underwater, the rest was inside the bubble) so it's reasonable as to why he can still use haki. but WB's illness was shown to enable him to use haki.


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## Amol (Jul 14, 2014)

^
I am not sure but I think Marco did mentioned about WB's illness affecting his strength and how Squardo couldn't have injured WB if he wasn't ill . I took meaning of that statement as WB couldn't use CoO properly because of illness .
I maybe wrong. My memory is little fuzzy right now .


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## Lawliet (Jul 14, 2014)

Yeah, Marco said something like; whether a foe or a friend, he should have been able to dodge that but his health is not as good, then we see the quick flashback of WB taking the machines off his chest.


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## Zooted (Jul 14, 2014)

monkey d ace said:


> being underwater and being physically ill are not the same thing, but even if it was, ur still wrong. since luffy was still able to use his DF(only a part of him was underwater, the rest was inside the bubble) so it's reasonable as to why he can still use haki. *but WB's illness was shown to enable him to use haki.*



Being underwater weakens luffy physically correct? The illness weakens WB physically correct? Now, how does the illness weakens WB mentally? 

It still weakens him correct? And irrc pre ts luffy couldn't even touch a tiny beat of the ocean let alone part of his body. 

@Bold: you're just contradicting yourself mate


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## monkey d ace (Jul 15, 2014)

Nova said:


> Being underwater weakens luffy physically correct? The illness weakens WB physically correct? Now, how does the illness weakens WB mentally?
> 
> It still weakens him correct? And irrc pre ts luffy couldn't even touch a tiny beat of the ocean let alone part of his body.
> 
> @Bold: you're just contradicting yourself mate


they're still not the same thing, so it's reasonable that they have different effects when it comes to haki, and the instance where luffy managed to use haki underwater, he was also able to use his DF, which seawater is it's biggest weakness. so no surprises there he was able to use haki there.

i'm not contradicting myself at all, i'm just stating what happened in the manga. it was shown in the manga that luffy was still able to use haki underwater, and it was also shown that WB couldn't use haki when his sickness got the better of him. and marco's stated clearly that WB's sickness affected his haki. although he was talking about CoO in that case, but it's still a form of haki(a willpower thing) so the other forms of haki can be affected too. we've seen CoC being effected by sickness on panel aswell so being partly underwater =/= physically ill.


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## Zooted (Jul 16, 2014)

monkey d ace said:


> WB was having health issues, therefore he couldn't use his haki most of the time.





monkey d ace said:


> WB's illness was shown to enable him to use haki.





monkey d ace said:


> i'm not contradicting myself at all



I am very confused to what you're saying.

Thats not my point at all but okay. Several confirmed Haki users was unable to hit logia's as well does that mean they are weakened like WB? Simply said, illness was not the reason why more than half of the haki users unable to hit logias including WB. 

This is my last reply~


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## monkey d ace (Jul 16, 2014)

Nova said:


> I am very confused to what you're saying.
> 
> Thats not my point at all but okay. Several confirmed Haki users was unable to hit logia's as well does that mean they are weakened like WB? Simply said, illness was not the reason why more than half of the haki users unable to hit logias including WB.
> 
> This is my last reply~


my bad, i made a mistake there, i meant to say WB's illness made him unable to use haki most of the time, i understand why ur confused. sry about that.
wait.... so ur saying WB's haki isn't enough to injure an admiral? surely not, and please don't compare the likes of vista's haki to WB's, it's just wrong!


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