# 2 Eyed Juudara vs Rikudo Kakashi



## Hachibi (Jan 4, 2015)

Since this section lacked Trancendant/God Tier 

Location: Madara vs Bijuus
Distance: 25 meters
Knowledge: Full
Mindset: BL
Restriction: IT depending on the replies

Discuss this thread with passion


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## Trojan (Jan 4, 2015)

Madara fodderstomps. 

EMS Madara is superior to that Kakashi as well imo.


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## Hachibi (Jan 4, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Madara fodderstomps.
> 
> EMS Madara is superior to that Kakashi as well imo.



You're right, EMS Madara will have a superior number of body parts lost


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## Trojan (Jan 4, 2015)

yeah, whatever. @>@
It's not like if I care about him either way. 

the best Kakashi can dream of here is to use Kamui for the 2 minutes he can keep that up before he dies. lol


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## Hachibi (Jan 4, 2015)

Hussain said:


> yeah, whatever. @>@
> It's not like if I care about him either way.
> 
> the best Kakashi can dream of here is to use Kamui for the 2 minutes he can keep that up before he dies. lol



You're making up these tow minutes. No time frame was given.


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## Trojan (Jan 4, 2015)

He pretty much did it for 1 attack. :rofl

and I don't know what kind of feat does his PS have to be superior to EMS Madara's PS. 
and the Rinnegan is obviously way superior to MS, you must be out of your mind to think otherwise.


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## Hachibi (Jan 4, 2015)

Not even close. He used it multiple times in the fight.


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## Trojan (Jan 4, 2015)

Really? 
he saved Sakura with it, and then get destroyed by Kaguya as far as I remember, no? 
and even then, what does it have that is superior to Madara's PS exactly?


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## sabre320 (Jan 4, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Madara fodderstomps.
> 
> EMS Madara is superior to that Kakashi as well imo.



are u freaking joking?  rikudo kakashi blitzd kaguya ...his ps can use kamui on a huge scale....he can use kamui fast enough to counter kaguyas spacetime technique...kaguya blitzd sasuke with it and sasuke blitzd madara with his own..


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## Hachibi (Jan 4, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Really?
> he saved Sakura with it, and then get destroyed by Kaguya as far as I remember, no?
> and even then, what does it have that is superior to Madara's PS exactly?



He used Kamui 4 times in the fight:
-Kamui Shurikens to Kaguya's Tails
-Intangibility to her bones
-Kamui Raikiri
-Warped her (or BZ's, I don't really remember) bone.


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## Mercurial (Jan 4, 2015)

I actually think that DMS Kakashi is definitely above Juubi jinchuriki Madara. From both a portrayal and feats argument; especially if we talk about their feats.

By portrayal, he directly outperformed a stronger being than Madara (countering and stopping her giant form thanks to Perfect Susanoo and Kamui Shuriken, avoding her attacks thanks to Kamui phasing, hitting her 1 vs 1 thanks to Kamui Raikiri hax + Rikudo enhanced speed and shitting on her S/T jutsu thanks to long range Kamui) in Kaguya, with Rikudo Sennin acknowledging him as the most important for Kaguya's defeat (1). In a single chapter he could do better than Naruto and Sasuke together could in all the time before, he effectively changed the battle with his actions. Naruto and Sasuke together were implied to be at the very least on par with Madara (2), and effectively able to fight him more than on par, I'd say.

By feats. DMS Kakashi can avoid Mugen Tsukuyomi by teleporting in the other dimension with Kamui. He can shit on Linbo: he can camp in Perfect Susanoo (), therefore having a constant defence, and fight by long range spamming Kamui Shuriken, with either Kamui Shuriken being able to create a giant warp that closes instantly and covers an area as big as the Perfect Susanoo himself, and with them being spammable and at least four at once (), it's a big problem for Madara; as they are made by Kakashi adding Kamui's power to Susanoo, Kakashi can likely create a Kamui Sword too (5), so Kakashi's Perfect Susanoo >> Madara's Perfect Susanoo, definitely. We know that Rinnegan Sasuke could easily react to Linbo, more than once, and counter it/defend from it, more than once; the same Rinnegan Sasuke was blitzed by Kaguya's S/T (6)(7) (with Naruto being nearly blitzed too, and he also could dodge Linbo, even when he fought in his weaker form (8)). The same S/T that Kakashi easily reacted to, and outspeeded in execution with his long range version of Kamui (9)(10). So if Madara tries to one-shot with Linbo, Kakashi will always one-shot faster with Kamui, warping his head off before he can react.

Moreso: Linbo doesn't work after a certain distance, so Kakashi can camp away, then teleport behind Madara with Kamui at maximized speed (having both eyes (11) with perfect mastery and also Rikudo chakra enhancing their powers ()) and then blitz him with Kamui Raikiri; Kaguya has faster reflexes and physical speed than Madara and a S/T jutsu and couldn't dodge Kakashi's quick thrust (phasing means nothing, phasing or not she could have simply side-stepped if she could), she didn't react until he pierced her, Zetsu couldn't react too (13)(14); so Madara won't. Also Kaguya, while in a stronger form, couldn't dodge Kakashi, as shown, while she, in a weaker form, could dodge Sasuke (15)(16), the same Sasuke that could at very least trouble Madara. If it doesn't kill him (cutting his head off should suffice; but you know, Madara claims to be immortal), he warps his body in the other dimension in an istant, and he is damned to stay there forever, thus Kakashi wins. 

Kakashi also nullifies Gudodama with Rikudo chakra added to his ninjutsu, or simply warps them with Kamui or bypasses with phasing. Kakashi is also physically faster and can teleport everywhere he wants, in the real world or between the two dimensions (Kamui world and real world) as he wishes, gaining a giant advantage in mobility and tactics; something a genius fighter like him could definitely take advantage of. Kamui phasing and teleporting also let him survive Madara's multiple Chibaku Tensei, or Shin Jukai Kotan, with ease. Not to mention everything Madara does, Kakashi can basically outspeed with Kamui, in offense and in defense, this even while being in Perfect Susanoo and making a strategy with his superior intellect.


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## Trojan (Jan 4, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> are u freaking joking?  rikudo kakashi blitzd kaguya ...his ps can use kamui on a huge scale....he can use kamui fast enough to counter kaguyas spacetime technique...kaguya blitzd sasuke with it and sasuke blitzd madara with his own..



Kaguya does not know about Kamui, and that's why she was surprised. Madara however does know about it. 

and I don't know about this


> his ps can use kamui on a huge scale.


scan? 



> kaguya blitzd sasuke with it and sasuke blitzd madara with his own.



BZ fodderstompped Madara, and chojiro fodderstopped BZ, therefore chojiro is stronger than mandara? 

Sakura was also able to punch Kaguya, who fodderstopped Sasuke's PS, I suppose Sakura > Rinnegan Sasuke conformed? 


Also, what stops Madara from using his limbos here to destroy Kakashi? He can't neither see them, nor sense them, no?


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## sabre320 (Jan 4, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Really?
> he saved Sakura with it, and then get destroyed by Kaguya as far as I remember, no?
> and even then, what does it have that is superior to Madara's PS exactly?



Are you conveniently ignoring the difference rikudo chakra makes?! kakashis ps is powered by the same rikudo chakra as sasukes these are the only ones who have been shown to fly and are fast enough to dodge kaguyas tails which blitzd narutos god mode clone..its kamui shuriken bypasses durability and kamuis madaras ps....


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## Trojan (Jan 4, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> He used Kamui 4 times in the fight:
> -Kamui Shurikens to Kaguya's Tails
> -Intangibility to her bones
> -Kamui Raikiri
> -Warped her (or BZ's, I don't really remember) bone.



I was talking about his PS, and even then, it's not like if he took forever for those attacks. lol

Also, it's pretty obvious that Madara is way above Kakashi, it's not even close. 
Madara with 1 Rinnegan, was stated to be above Obito (full power). Any rational person would know
that there is no way in hell that Kakashi who only has a fraction of Obito's power can match madara. That in term of the chakra. 

Obito, who held both MS, stated that the Rinnegan power was too much that he couldn't take both of them, which is obviously to show that Rinnegan >>> MS. He even stated that no one would be able to stop him if he got the 2 Rinnegan. Heck, Madara stated that obito was way too weak when he tried to steal the Bijuu's chakra, and Kakashi now is stronger? lol

Kakashi is obviously not even in the same level as JJ Obito, let alone madara...


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## Ruse (Jan 4, 2015)

Can't Madara just troll with Limbo?


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## Trojan (Jan 4, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> Are you conveniently ignoring the difference rikudo chakra makes?! kakashis ps is powered by the same rikudo chakra as sasukes these are the only ones who have been shown to fly and are fast enough to dodge kaguyas tails which blitzd narutos god mode clone..its kamui shuriken bypasses durability and kamuis madaras ps....



No, sorry. 
Madara had the Sage's chakra as well even before he becomes the Juubi's host. 


and his PS according to the Databook can fly as well.


"Furthermore Susano'o in next form can wear special armor which can shape/turn on wings that allow it to fly."


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## Hachibi (Jan 4, 2015)

Hussain said:


> I was talking about his PS, and even then, it's not like if he took forever for those attacks. lol



Sasuke's PS was also cracked by Kaguya's attacks so yeah.



> Also, it's pretty obvious that Madara is way above Kakashi, it's not even close.
> Madara with 1 Rinnegan, was stated to be above Obito (full power). Any rational person would know
> that there is no way in hell that Kakashi who only has a fraction of Obito's power can match madara. That in term of the chakra.



But unlike Obito, Kakashi has hax going for him.



> Obito, who held both MS, stated that the Rinnegan power was too much that he couldn't take both of them, which is obviously to show that Rinnegan >>> MS. He even stated that no one would be able to stop him if he got the 2 Rinnegan. Heck, Madara stated that obito was way too weak when he tried to steal the Bijuu's chakra, and Kakashi now is stronger? lol



And yet, Obito could control the Juubi 



> Kakashi is obviously not even in the same level as JJ Obito, let alone madara...



>Kishi
>Logic
Pick one


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## Trojan (Jan 4, 2015)

just thrown this out there, why did not obito solo Madara by himself? 
Did he not have the 2 MS, and that same chakra he gave to Kakashi?


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## Hachibi (Jan 4, 2015)

Hussain said:


> just thrown this out there, why did not obito solo Madara by himself?
> Did he not have the 2 MS, and that same chakra he gave to Kakashi?



Because he was near-dead at the time he got his two MS back and Madara turned into Kaguya?


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jan 4, 2015)

Hussain said:


> just thrown this out there, why did not obito solo Madara by himself?
> Did he not have the 2 MS, and that same chakra he gave to Kakashi?


Since he was _basically dead from using Rinnei Tensei_? Hussain, do you get off on bashing and downplaying characters you don't like? Seriously, your downplay of Tobirama, DMS Rikudo Kakashi, etc. gets not only annoying but insulting, showing you only chose to read what you _want_ to read.


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## Raiken (Jan 4, 2015)

Dual Rinnegan Juubi Jinchuuriki Madara >>> DMS Rikudou Chakra Kakashi


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## sabre320 (Jan 4, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Kaguya does not know about Kamui, and that's why she was surprised. Madara however does know about it.
> 
> and I don't know about this
> 
> ...



kaguya was not surprised she saw obito use kamui earlier...the moment kakashi materialized he was able to react faster then kaguya to land the hit...kaguya was helpless after he phased through mind you this is someone noted to be far above juubidara,,..she easily reacted to sasukes spacetime technique that blitzed juubidara...

he hansomely outperformed rikudo sasuke in the kaguya fight....


16
16
this is the speed of kaguyas space time tech..
kakashi was able to shut the portal before use..
16


now ur using baseless generalizations..black zetsu landed a surprise attack from behind and he cannot be sensed not to mention madara had no guard against him...rikudo kakashi did not land some weak punch on kaguya like sakura while she was distracted and neutralized he took her head on used his technique and drew blood disabling her arm..no need to downplay his feats..

16

kakashi could kamui a bijuu sized target mid summon while exhausted what do you think  a rikudo kakashi will be capable of through ps?which enhances techniques such as chidori to bijudama level..


16

I believe kakashi can see limbo clone through rikudo chakra pumped into the mankegyo even if not he can stay intangible or in his ps and still use his techniques.


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## Trojan (Jan 4, 2015)

> [=Hachibi;52609617]Sasuke's PS was also cracked by Kaguya's attacks so yeah.


So, can we all agree that Sakura is stronger than Sasuke going by your logic?
Sasuke.
16
he is attacking with his PS

Kaguya trashing him, without getting a scratch
16

Unlike Sakura who punched Kaguya (after absorbing all the chakra by the way)
16
and actually effected her!

Simply, things do not go that way. Are you telling me Kaguya blitzed Sasuke, but couldn't to Sakura, so Sakura is faster and stronger than Sasuke? :rofl




> But unlike Obito, Kakashi has hax going for him.


Are you drunk? 
the hax Kakashi had, is Obito's power.  



> And yet, Obito could control the Juubi


and? 
you want me to drop Obito's statements, so you can be satisfied?  


> >Kishi
> >Logic
> Pick one


The only one who's lacking logic here is you, not Kishi. 
Kishi made Minato state that Madara with one Rinnegan is superior to Obito at full power.
Kakashi only took the left over of that chakra, after all the Bijuus were freed, and yet people think
he is on the same level with madara. :rofl


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## sabre320 (Jan 4, 2015)

Hussain said:


> No, sorry.
> Madara had the Sage's chakra as well even before he becomes the Juubi's host.
> 
> 
> ...



after juubi jin sure but before it hell no rikudo chakra gave such a boost to kakashis techniques that his raikiri cuts through kaguya easily she was able to bijudama rasenshurikens....do u really think rinnegan madara had this chakra cuz if he did he would have stomped hashirama....if ems madaras sussano could fly why in gods name did he not utilize it against hashirama?? he could have basically slashed madara from the sky at leisure..


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## Trojan (Jan 4, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> Because he was near-dead at the time he got his two MS back and Madara turned into Kaguya?



Yet he has the same amount of chakra, and the same eyes, and was alive. 



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Since he was _basically dead from using Rinnei Tensei_? Hussain, do you get off on bashing and downplaying characters you don't like? Seriously, your downplay of Tobirama, DMS Rikudo Kakashi, etc. gets not only annoying but insulting, showing you only chose to read what you _want_ to read.



Yeah, everyone I don't agree with comes to me and tell me "you hate this and you hate that" 
I have never disliked or hated Kakashi, you jumped to your own conclusion, and you're the one who's downplaying madara, just like how you were downplaying Naruto and Sasuke and putting them in the same level as Hinata.  

and I guess everyone knows how much I hate madara, and I consider him the single, worst, most disguising character in the entire manga.  


- Yeah, pretty sure, Obito, and Minato's statement were meant to be taken as "fraction of Obito's chakra is more powerful than Madara" 

Or obito's statement about the Rinnegan was actually a typoo, and he wanted to say "My MS is >>>>>>>>> Rinnegan, don't worry sakura"


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## Hachibi (Jan 4, 2015)

Hussain said:


> So, can we all agree that Sakura is stronger than Sasuke going by your logic?
> Sasuke.
> 1
> he is attacking with his PS
> ...



These two situation are incomparable. Kaguya could counter Sasuke (which she did) and destroying his PS with her hand. She couldn't defend in anyway against Sakura's assault.



> Are you drunk?
> the hax Kakashi had, is Obito's power.



Obito never had 2 MS as a Juubi Jin.



> and?
> you want me to drop Obito's statements, so you can be satisfied?



Obito's statements can be interpreted in several way, like Obito not being compatible with it, not just the "Rinnegan>>>>>>>>MS" way



> The only one who's lacking logic here is you, not Kishi.
> Kishi made Minato state that Madara with one Rinnegan is superior to Obito at full power.
> Kakashi only took the left over of that chakra, after all the Bijuus were freed, and yet people think
> he is on the same level with madara. :rofl



Wrong, he said that Madara with one Rinnegan is superior to Obito who didn't have 2 MS at the time.


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## sabre320 (Jan 4, 2015)

Hussain said:


> So, can we all agree that Sakura is stronger than Sasuke going by your logic?
> Sasuke.
> 1
> he is attacking with his PS
> ...





why are u conveniently ignoring the context and situations of the hits?? sakura landed a hit while kaguya was distracted and pressured by naruto and sasuke and her space time technique neutralized by kakashi! sasuke went headon vs kaguya and got his ass beat....kakashi went head on against kaguya no distractions he straight lunged at her through his ps and she lost an arm in the exchange stop with the downplay kakashi was not some fodder like black zetsu he was performing on the same level as the godly teens unlike sakura
juubito could not utilize kamui effectively.....kakashi with rikudo chakra and dual kamui is insanely hax...his kamui is faster then kaguyas space time tech let that sink in..obito with one rinnegan could utilize only gedo path....dual makegyo is infinitely superior then that one rinnegan utility for obito...and regarding the near dead obito who had gedo extracted you have to be joking..

sasuke had just one portion of rikudos yin chakra and yet he cut juubidara in half...chakra quantity isnt the issue here kakashi isnt contesting bruteforce here..


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## Hachibi (Jan 4, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Yet he has the same amount of chakra, and the same eyes, and was alive.



Obito.Was.Near.Dead. How is it hard to understand that?

Also, Obito's chakra was low for opening vortex in Kaguya's Main Dimension.


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## Trojan (Jan 4, 2015)

> =sabre320;52609662]kaguya was not surprised she saw obito use kamui earlier...the moment kakashi materialized he was able to react faster then kaguya to land the hit...kaguya was helpless after he phased through mind you this is someone noted to be far above juubidara,,..she easily reacted to sasukes spacetime technique that blitzed juubidara...



- She saw Obito's ability to go though things? When? 
- Okay, Sakura did that to Kaguya, which easily reacted to Sasuke, so she (Sakura) would speedblitze Madara? 


> he hansomely outperformed rikudo sasuke in the kaguya fight....


Sasuke sucked hard in that fight. Even I did not dream of such trolling for him honestly. :rofl 


> 1
> 1
> this is the speed of kaguyas space time tech..
> kakashi was able to shut the portal before use..
> 1



To me, Sasuke's teleportation is the weakest, so it's not saying much. Also, Madara's fighting style is different than Kaguya. I have yet to know how is Kakashi going to deal with Madara's limbo... 


> now ur using baseless generalizations..black zetsu landed a surprise attack from behind and he cannot be sensed not to mention madara had no guard against him...rikudo kakashi did not land some weak punch on kaguya like sakura while she was distracted and neutralized he took her head on used his technique and drew blood disabling her arm..no need to downplay his feats..


weak punch? That punched destroyed her horn. Something Sasuke's PS failed to do against weaker Kaguya! How do you explain that? Does not that make Sakura superior to Sasuke by that same logic
people apply to Kakashi? 

Also, Kaguya has the Byakugan, so she can see what is above her. 


> 1
> 
> kakashi could kamui a *bijuu sized target mid summon while exhausted* what do you think  a rikudo kakashi will be capable of through ps?which enhances techniques such as chidori to bijudama level..


When? The only time he did that was to B, and he was not exhausted, but he was several times stronger because of Naruto's chakra. Also, by that, base Minato was able to dodge Kamui so to speak, then what about Madara's speed? 

- Naruto was holding back in their battle. And Kakashi did not show the same level with the Susanoo as Sasuke did in his last battle either. 


> 1


Why can't Madara dodge them or use Preta path to absorbed them? Or simply use his own PS's swords to counter them? 


> I believe kakashi can see limbo clone through rikudo chakra pumped into the mankegyo even if not he can stay intangible or in his ps and still use his techniques.


- No he can't. Only the Rinnegan can do that.
- Why would he be intangible when he does not even know that there is something coming to begin with?
- 1 Limbo was able to defeat all Bijuus, why wouldn't 5 of them be able to do the same for Kakashi's PS? 



sabre320 said:


> after juubi jin sure but before it hell no rikudo chakra gave such a boost to kakashis techniques that his raikiri cuts through kaguya easily she was able to bijudama rasenshurikens....do u really think rinnegan madara had this chakra cuz if he did he would have stomped hashirama....if ems madaras sussano could fly why in gods name did he not utilize it against hashirama?? he could have basically slashed madara from the sky at leisure..



- So, you're saying Hago was lying, and Madara did not really get his chakra at that time? 
- Kakashi's Kamui Rikiri teleported Kaguya's arm, and that's why it effected her. 
- Yes, I believe so, that's what the manga stated, and that's precisely why I believe this Kakashi is overrated.  
- I don't know why, and I don't care either. I am trying to use the evidences that we have. rather than making assumptions...  

There is a lot of characters that do those dumb thing for one reason or the other. I can't help it.


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## Trojan (Jan 4, 2015)

Ok people, this coming reply would probably be the last. I am not a huge fan of long debates, especially with several people at once. 

I guess I made my point clear, and other than that, to each his own I suppose. Since neither of those are the Kid and/or his father, I could careless, so with that being said...


> =Hachibi;52609730]These two situation are incomparable. Kaguya could counter Sasuke (which she did) and destroying his PS with her hand. She couldn't defend in anyway against Sakura's assault.


She did not use her hand. Sasuke attacked her head as shown in the scan. Also, she was busy dealing with Naruto's chakra arm when Sasuke got the chance to attack her. Same thing, except with Sakura thing she was actually faster and stronger than she was before because of the additional chakra. 



> Obito never had 2 MS as a Juubi Jin.



Yes, he had the Rinnegan which is superior to the MS. In addition to the 9 Bijuus.  


> Obito's statements can be interpreted in several way, like Obito not being compatible with it, not just the "Rinnegan>>>>>>>>MS" way


No. It was specifically about the Rinnegan's power.  




> Wrong, he said that Madara with one Rinnegan is superior to Obito who didn't have 2 MS at the time.


Yes, the Obito who had the Rinnegan, and the 9 Bijuus. I.E, a far stronger Obito. 



> =sabre320;52609734]why are u conveniently ignoring the context and situations of the hits?? sakura landed a hit while kaguya was distracted and pressured by naruto and sasuke and her space time technique neutralized by kakashi!


And she was stronger and faster, and can see what above her with the Byakguan. 



> sasuke went headon vs kaguya and got his ass beat...


and she was slower, and weaker, and attacking Naruto as well.  


> .kakashi went head on against kaguya no distractions he straight lunged at her through his ps and she lost an arm in the exchange stop with the downplay kakashi was not some fodder like black zetsu he was performing on the same level as the godly teens unlike sakura


I have already explained that.  



> juubito could not utilize kamui effectively.....kakashi with rikudo chakra and dual kamui is insanely hax...his kamui is faster then kaguyas space time tech let that sink in..obito with one rinnegan could utilize only gedo path....dual makegyo is infinitely superior then that one rinnegan utility for obito...and regarding the near dead obito who had gedo extracted you have to be joking..


Yet he had it, and about what he could use with the Rinnegan, wrong again. It was stated that he learned them in the flashback. 
1

Yeah, let's forget that Zetsu was attached to him. 



> sasuke had just one portion of rikudos yin chakra and yet he cut juubidara in half...chakra quantity isnt the issue here kakashi isnt contesting bruteforce here..



We don't know how durable Madara's body is. BZ's arm went through him easily as well. And you keep thinking of Kakashi's Kamui, and not a mention of what is he going to do against Madara's Limbo.

What if Madara used all the CTs at once? What about Kakashi's time limit? 
Did not Obito state that Kakashi can only use that for a fixed amount of time?  

anyway, I am not interested in this topic honestly. To me Kakashi's level is around EMS Madara's level, and below him if he has Kurama. That's how I view him.

_-Snip-_


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## KyuubiFan (Jan 4, 2015)

Madara wins with Limbo pretty easily. Those clones can only be seen by the Rin'negan or sensed with Rikudo's Senjutsu. Kakashi has neither of those two.

Even without Limbo he can just cast Mugen Tsukoyomi and win. Or use a Rin'negan genjutsu (like Sasuke did against the Bijuus).


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## sabre320 (Jan 4, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Ok people, this coming reply would probably be the last. I am not a huge fan of long debates, especially with several people at once.
> 
> I guess I made my point clear, and other than that, to each his own I suppose. Since neither of those are the Kid and/or his father, I could careless, so with that being said...
> 
> ...



Generally ur a good debater who uses feats and hype well but here ur downplaying so much im surprised..

Well if u truly are deadset on that belief then ok...but it is laughable...ems madara even with kurama would be like a fly vs kaguya she could effortlessly dispose of him and he wouldn't even scratch her....


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## Mercurial (Jan 4, 2015)

KyuubiFan said:


> Madara wins with Limbo pretty easily. Those clones can only be seen by the Rin'negan or sensed with Rikudo's Senjutsu. Kakashi has neither of those two.
> 
> Even without Limbo he can just cast Mugen Tsukoyomi and win. Or use a Rin'negan genjutsu (like Sasuke did against the Bijuus).



He can shit on Linbo: he can camp in Perfect Susanoo, therefore having a constant defence, and fight by long range spamming Kamui Shuriken, with either Kamui Shuriken being able to create a giant warp that closes instantly and covers an area as big as the Perfect Susanoo himself, and with them being spammable and at least four at once, it's a big problem for Madara; as they are made by Kakashi adding Kamui's power to Susanoo, Kakashi can likely create a Kamui Sword too, so Kakashi's Perfect Susanoo >> Madara's Perfect Susanoo, definitely. We know that Rinnegan Sasuke could easily react to Linbo, more than once, and counter it/defend from it, more than once; the same Rinnegan Sasuke was blitzed by Kaguya's S/T (with Naruto being nearly blitzed too, and he also could dodge Linbo, even when he fought in his weaker form). The same S/T that Kakashi easily reacted to, and outspeeded in execution with his long range version of Kamui. So if Madara tries to one-shot with Linbo, Kakashi will always one-shot faster with Kamui, warping his head off before he can react.

Moreso: Linbo doesn't work after a certain distance, so Kakashi can camp away, then teleport behind Madara with Kamui at maximized speed (having both eyes with perfect mastery and also Rikudo chakra enhancing their powers) and then blitz him with Kamui Raikiri; Kaguya has faster reflexes and physical speed than Madara and a S/T jutsu and couldn't dodge Kakashi's quick thrust (phasing means nothing, phasing or not she could have simply side-stepped if she could), she didn't react until he pierced her, Zetsu couldn't react too; so Madara won't. Also Kaguya, while in a stronger form, couldn't dodge Kakashi, as shown, while she, in a weaker form, could dodge Sasuke, the same Sasuke that could at very least trouble Madara. If it doesn't kill him (cutting his head off should suffice; but you know, Madara claims to be immortal), he warps his body in the other dimension in an istant, and he is damned to stay there forever, thus Kakashi wins. 

Kakashi can avoid Mugen Tsukuyomi by teleporting in the other dimension with Kamui while Madara flies in the sky and unleashes the genjutsu.


----------



## Trojan (Jan 4, 2015)

@sabre320

I don't judge a character by its feats with a team as if it is alone. The Hokages are flies as well against Juubi's host foes level. Yet, you can't deny that huge amount of help Minato and Tobirama did against Obito even though they were outclassed. 

A > B > C logic is applied in what you said as well. As for each character their own abilities that can be helpful against some opponents, that is not necessarily helpful against others. 

examples:
1- Minato defeated Obito's Kamui easily, yet it took BM Naruto, Gai, Kakashi, and B to deal with him after a long battle. Does that mean Minato is stronger than them together because his ability worked the best against Obito?

2- Jiraiya, pretty much one shotted Konan with his oil. When Obito was almost killed by her, and actually had to use the Izanagi to survive. Does that make Jiraiya's abilities fits to fight Obito? 

and so on and so forth. The whole fight with Kaguya is about team work. Even Sakura who people always say she's useless, and does not worth anything was a huge help in that fight. 

Just like I don't think Lee is stronger than Hashirama and the 5 Kages because he fodderstompped Edo Madara with 1 kick, the same thing applies to Kakashi her to me. U_U

Well, I guess I can have better insight when someone translate their DB Entries. Perhaps...

+
thanks for your time. I'll see if I can rep you with Hachibi. @_@

Edit: done.


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## Shinobi no Kami (Jan 4, 2015)

kakashi cant even defeat madara without the juubi.

kakashi wont be able to harm madara in cqc because of madaras 4 limbo clones.

kakashis susano doesnt have the feats to stop mass CT spam.


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## sabre320 (Jan 4, 2015)

Hussain said:


> @sabre320
> 
> I don't judge a character by its feats with a team as if it is alone. The Hokages are flies as well against Juubi's host foes level. Yet, you can't deny that huge amount of help Minato and Tobirama did against Obito even though they were outclassed.
> 
> ...



Now awnser me this if ems madara takes kaguya headon like kakashi what happens?the fact that you are forced to put up a support role for him pretty much sums it up

but i digress thankyou for you time as well as the rep lets agree to disagree



Shinobi no Kami said:


> kakashi cant even defeat madara without the juubi.
> 
> kakashi wont be able to harm madara in cqc because of madaras 4 limbo clones.
> 
> kakashis susano doesnt have the feats to stop mass CT spam.



Yes yes kami sama ems madara and hashirama are in a class of their own rikudo kakashi who was taking on kaguya cant possibly beat either same as bsm naruto who cant hope to take on ems madaras ps because he is only equal to sasukes v3 right


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Jan 4, 2015)

Kakashi has a chance to win if he does not get outlasted or hit with IT. But nothing really stop madara from playing defense or launching IT on kakashi.

Juudara>DMS kakashi for the most part being able to hit or hardly survive against god tiers don't mean you can beat them.


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## Hachibi (Jan 4, 2015)

Hussain said:


> She did not use her hand. Sasuke attacked her head as shown in the scan. Also, she was busy dealing with Naruto's chakra arm when Sasuke got the chance to attack her. Same thing, except with Sakura thing she was actually faster and stronger than she was before because of the additional chakra.


 
If you were talking about the attack head on, this is like I say, not comparable. If you were talking about the small opening Sasuke saw after Naruto and Kaguya Fist Fight, she was far less pressured than the Sakura one.



> Yes, he had the Rinnegan which is superior to the MS. In addition to the 9 Bijuus.



A Rinnegan he can't use. So he only had one MS and 9 Bijuus, which isn't as powerful as Kamui (blame Kishi for that)



> No. It was specifically about the Rinnegan's power.



Which mean shit because he didn't know about Kaguya


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## Trojan (Jan 4, 2015)

@sabre320

If Madara did that same thing he will get killed.


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## Blu-ray (Jan 4, 2015)

Would be nice if we could just pretend the whole Kaguya arc never happened, because Madara loses this by feats, and that makes all of shit sense.

Limbo is the only technique can touch Kakashi, but it can't kill, just smack people around or hold them in place, and once Kakashi is touched he'll just phase to break free. MT is useless since Kakakshi can either wait it out in the other dimension, or just stay intangible and let the light pass through him instead of touching him.

Kakashi can't actually kill him because Naruto and Sasuke's seals are necessary, but Madara is still gonna spend eternity in Kamui.



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Since he was _basically dead from using Rinnei Tensei_? Hussain, do you get off on bashing and downplaying characters you don't like? Seriously, your downplay of Tobirama, DMS Rikudo Kakashi, etc. gets not only annoying but insulting, showing you only chose to read what you _want_ to read.



But Hussain hates the everloving shit out of Madara.


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## sabre320 (Jan 4, 2015)

Hussain said:


> @sabre320
> 
> If Madara did that same thing he will get killed.



thankyou i wont argue further



blackguyinpinksuit said:


> Kakashi has a chance to win if he does not get outlasted or hit with IT. But nothing really stop madara from playing defense or launching IT on kakashi.
> 
> Juudara>DMS kakashi for the most part being able to hit or hardly survive against god tiers don't mean you can beat them.



problem with outlasting him is that he has a ps as fast as kakashis and has kamui that is fast  and accurate enough to neautralize kaguyas spacetime technique midway which in turn was fast enough to blitz sasuke whose space time technique was fast enough to blitz juubidara...kakashi can use kamui while intangible he is invincible in that time..he was able to basically blitz kaguya with kamui raikiri someone far superior to juubidara..


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## Shinobi no Kami (Jan 4, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> Yes yes kami sama ems madara and hashirama are in a class of their own rikudo kakashi who was taking on kaguya cant possibly beat either


kakashi fighting kaguya doesnt mean that either madara or hashirama lose to him. thats nonsense.


> same as bsm naruto who cant hope to take on ems madaras ps because he is only equal to sasukes v3 right


you are right. BM naruto cannot take on PS. only six paths naruto with his enhanced kurama avatar can take on PS.


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## sabre320 (Jan 4, 2015)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> kakashi fighting kaguya doesnt mean that either madara or hashirama lose to him. thats nonsense.
> 
> you are right. BM naruto cannot take on PS. only six paths naruto with his enhanced kurama avatar can take on PS.



Indeed kami sama only six paths naruto can hope to match ems madaras mighty ps


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Jan 4, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> problem with outlasting him is that he has a ps as fast as kakashis and has kamui that is fast  and accurate enough to neautralize kaguyas spacetime technique midway which in turn was fast enough to blitz sasuke whose space time technique was fast enough to blitz juubidara...kakashi can use kamui while intangible he is invincible in that time..



True which is why madara should just wait until kakashi leaves his DMS state since obito can't stay in the real world forever. It was only active for the short skirmish team 7 and kaguya had in their final skirmish. I will admit full knowledge is bad for infinite tsukyuomi because kakashi can see madara going for it and then prepare so meh.

Basically my assessment was based off if kakashi did not have unlimited DMS. If he does then with the feats he showed against kaguya madara is sad to say...kinda fucked.


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## Trojan (Jan 4, 2015)

VolatileSoul said:


> But Hussain *hates* the *everloving* shit out of Madara.



Even though I am not sure how does that work exactly, but you tell them. :rofl


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## Deer Lord (Jan 4, 2015)

Freecss said:


> Can't Madara just troll with Limbo?


Yes he can.


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## sabre320 (Jan 4, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> Yes he can.



cant kakashi just troll with kamui yes he can


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Jan 4, 2015)

If i take the databooks description(it creates a shadow with the exact abilities of the user) of the limbo for truth then i admit that technique can make a big difference here.


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## sabre320 (Jan 4, 2015)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> If i take the databooks description(it creates a shadow with the exact abilities of the user) of the limbo for truth then i admit that technique can make a big difference here.



while kakashi is intagible he is untouchable.. unlike madara with limbo clones...while intangible he can still use kamui warp faster then kaguyas space time technique.. limbos are a nonfactor


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## Deer Lord (Jan 4, 2015)

kakashi can't see or sense the limbo clones
they can easily gang up on him and knock him out, since an inferior limbo clone (and a single one at that) knocked out the nine bijuu.

kakashi would get his skull broken before he understands what hit him
Only way he is surviving limbo is with PS, and madara can just smash that to bits with CT/Bijuudama.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Jan 4, 2015)

So madara being able to multiple himself and his abilities x4 and existing in a world where kakashi can't see or sense him is...a non factor.

Now that i think about it even the non serious only taijutsu using limbo's would potentially be a huge thorn in kakashi's side.


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## Bonly (Jan 4, 2015)

Kakashi would likely get overwhelmed. Five limbo clones, the god tree which sucks up chakra real fast, all the boosted Rinne jutsu, ect. is all to much for Kakashi, Kakashi can use Kamui to avoid hits but he's gonna run out of chakra before Madara does and he'll be wasting it by constantly using Kamui+PS so unless Madara dicks around, which is actually likely, Madara should come out on top


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## sabre320 (Jan 4, 2015)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> So madara being able to multiple himself and his abilities x4 and existing in a world where kakashi can't see or sense him is...a non factor.
> 
> Now that i think about it even the non serious only taijutsu using limbo's would potentially be a huge thorn in kakashi's side.



What i meant was once kakashis intangible he is immune to limbo and madaras assaults but he can still use kamui offensively which is faster then kaguyas space time tech..kakashi will never go for a prolonged battle...he will go for kamui warp or kamui raikiri..in a prolonged battle where kakashi would have to turn tangible limbo would be a factor..



Bonly said:


> Kakashi would likely get overwhelmed. Five limbo clones, the god tree which sucks up chakra real fast, all the boosted Rinne jutsu, ect. is all to much for Kakashi, Kakashi can use Kamui to avoid hits but he's gonna run out of chakra before Madara does and he'll be wasting it by constantly using Kamui+PS so unless Madara dicks around, which is actually likely, Madara should come out on top



kakashi can go intangible and he is literally immune to all of madaras arsenal yet he can use kamui warp which is faster then kaguyas space time tech...this tech blitzed sasuke..same sasuke blitzd madara..


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## Trojan (Jan 4, 2015)

Same madara who blitzd Kakashi.


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## sabre320 (Jan 4, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> kakashi can't see or sense the limbo clones
> they can easily gang up on him and knock him out, since an inferior limbo clone (and a single one at that) knocked out the nine bijuu.
> 
> kakashi would get his skull broken before he understands what hit him
> Only way he is surviving limbo is with PS, and madara can just smash that to bits with CT/Bijuudama.



are u forgetting kakashi has both mankegyo he can turn intangible....and limbos cant touch him..



Hussain said:


> So madara who blitzd Kakashi.



hussain ur breaking the cease fire that kakashi is not the same as rikudo kakashi same as bm naruto is not the same as god mode naruto...


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## Prinz Porno (Jan 4, 2015)

By feats Kakashi wins with high difficulty. To be honest i only see Kaguya and Naruto beating dms Kakashi comfortably.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Jan 4, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> What i meant was once kakashis intangible he is immune to limbo and madaras assaults but he can still use kamui offensively which is faster then kaguyas space time tech..kakashi will never go for a prolonged battle...he will go for kamui warp or kamui raikiri..in a prolonged battle where kakashi would have to turn tangible limbo would be a factor..



The intang still got that 5 minute time restriction so it's not like he can do it forever. 

His kamui needs some form of focus to aim it would be hard with a limbo hitting him without knowing/unleashing ninjutsu on him he can't detect. 

Madara would make it a prolonged battle. Naruto and sasuke couldn't even stop madara from reaching the moon when he employed the limbo taijutsu and CT stall trick. Now imagine all the limbo's focused on killing kakashi with access to a huge movepool, meteors falling everywhere while madara adds on his own ranged assault with six paths powers. Kakashi's best chance would be to warp right to where madara is but that's not instant and madara can switch places with his limbo's instantly to escape.

All that+ his DMS don't last forever and it is very possible to see madara taking this.


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## sabre320 (Jan 4, 2015)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> The intang still got that 5 minute time restriction so it's not like he can do it forever.
> 
> His kamui needs some form of focus to aim it would be hard with a limbo hitting him without knowing/unleashing ninjutsu on him he can't detect.
> 
> ...



His kamui could focus so fast that it stopped kaguyas space time portal midway....funny thing ur ignoring is limbos cant do shit to him while he is intangible literally nada zilch neither can madara he dosent need to worry about anything else but kakashi can still kamui warp...dual kamui eye hax....


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## Bonly (Jan 4, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> kakashi can go intangible and he is literally immune to all of madaras arsenal



"Kakashi can use Kamui to avoid hits but he's gonna run out of chakra before Madara does and he'll be wasting it by constantly using Kamui+PS"

Cool he can use it all he wants but he'll run out of juice before Madara but lets remember what happened to Obito. Naruto sent a clone into boxland then forced Obito to use Kamui fully and he got a Rasengan to the face and when Obito sucked Kakashi up to boxland shortly before the Juubi came out to play, Kakashi was punching the body parts of Obito when he(Obito) used Kamui. Madara has wood clones as well as Limbo clones which have a shot at getting sucked into boxland which means that there's a good chance that going intangible isn't gonna be a "get out of jail" free card for Kakashi when it comes to damage.    



> yet he can use kamui warp which is faster then kaguyas space time tech...this tech blitzed sasuke..same sasuke blitzd madara..



Her S/T jutsu makes the portal instantly popped up somewhere so Kamui wasn't faster then said S/T jutsu as the portal was already in place, on the otherhand Kamui was faster then the speed of her bone being shot at Sasuke.


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## sabre320 (Jan 4, 2015)

Bonly said:


> "Kakashi can use Kamui to avoid hits but he's gonna run out of chakra before Madara does and he'll be wasting it by constantly using Kamui+PS"
> 
> Cool he can use it all he wants but he'll run out of juice before Madara but lets remember what happened to Obito. Naruto sent a clone into boxland then forced Obito to use Kamui fully and he got a Rasengan to the face and when Obito sucked Kakashi up to boxland shortly before the Juubi came out to play, Kakashi was punching the body parts of Obito when he(Obito) used Kamui. Madara has wood clones as well as Limbo clones which have a shot at getting sucked into boxland which means that there's a good chance that going intangible isn't gonna be a "get out of jail" free card for Kakashi when it comes to damage.
> 
> ...



Kakashi has feats more then capable of warping juubidara or his head...not to mention he blitzd kaguya with kamui raikiri and she is on another level from madara..he is not warping a limbo clone if he isnt seeing them...warping the portal midway is harder then getting madara...i dont think madara can make wood clones of his juubi self or he would have used them vs the duo..


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Jan 4, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> His kamui could focus so fast that it stopped kaguyas space time portal midway


You keep saying this but to be fair the only thing that happened there speed feat wise is that he stopped the bone before it could get naruto. Impressive since kakashi called the attack "fast" even with his enhanced DMS but not as godly as your making it out to be.



> ....funny thing ur ignoring is limbos cant do shit to him while he is intangible literally nada zilch neither can madara


I'm not ignoring that i replied that his intang only last for 5 minutes until kakashi is forced to become tangible again and get ravaged by all the wood, fire, meteors, lighting, susanoo sword swinging, limbo taijutsu, and whatever else madara got swarming the battlefield. Kakashi's being intang won't stop him from having to become tangible again and being susceptible to all of that(obito's kamui vs konan's paper ocean is a example of this). 

What is kakashi's response to that? Certainly not "kamui is hax so madara just loses" i already gave counters to that.



> he dosent need to worry about anything else but kakashi can still kamui warp...dual kamui eye hax....


Which won't reach a madara who is solely focused on dodging and flying away while kakashi is just stuck in a storm of techniques waiting to become tangible and die


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## Patrick (Jan 4, 2015)

Double Rinnegan Juudara was a match for Naruto and Sasuke after they had gotten their final power ups. 

Kakashi wouldn't really stand much of a chance in my eyes.


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## sabre320 (Jan 4, 2015)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> You keep saying this but to be fair the only thing that happened there speed feat wise is that he stopped the bone before it could get naruto. Impressive since kakashi called the attack "fast" even with his enhanced DMS but not as godly as your making it out to be.
> 
> 
> I'm not ignoring that i replied that his intang only last for 5 minutes until kakashi is forced to become tangible again and get ravaged by all the wood, fire, meteors, lighting, susanoo sword swinging, limbo taijutsu, and whatever else madara got swarming the battlefield. Kakashi's being intang won't stop him from having to become tangible again and being susceptible to all of that(obito's kamui vs konan's paper ocean is a example of this).
> ...



kaguyas spacetime technique while used for attack is fast enough to blitz sasuke...are you conveniently ignoring that the bone would get there instantly its faster then moving her arm its fired.. and did kakashi or did he not basically blitz kaguya with kamui raikiri what you are also ignoring is the fact that madara was stated to be nothing compared to kaguya/...


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## Bonly (Jan 4, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> Kakashi has feats more then capable of warping juubidara or his head...



Sure if Madara just stands there without Madara doing anything otherwise it's gonna be hard to land such a hit on an moving Madara.



> not to mention he blitzd kaguya with kamui raikiri and she is on another level from madara..



Cool he hit her when she thought he was done for



> he is not warping a limbo clone if he isnt seeing them...



Right because there's no way that there might be a chance that a Limbo clone can't be standing near/in front of Madara so that if Kamui is used he gets sucked up or run into a Kamui related attack thus getting sucked up to boxland? Oh wait that can happen whether or not Kakashi can see the Limbo clones



> warping the portal midway is harder then getting madara...



He didn't warp the portal midway as the portal was already there.



> i dont think madara can make wood clones of his juubi self or he would have used them vs the duo..



He had limbo clones which got the job done but no nothing suggest he magically lost the ability to use that jutsu so I'm not gonna assume he magically lost it.


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## sabre320 (Jan 4, 2015)

hashirama couldnt make sm wood clones...what makes you think madara can make juubidara wood clones..


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## Bonly (Jan 4, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> hashirama couldnt make sm wood clones...what makes you think madara can make juubidara wood clones..



Can you show me where it was stated that once in SM Hashi was unable to make SM clones?


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## Trojan (Jan 4, 2015)

I think he means that Hashirama's clones can't use SM, maybe?


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## Bonly (Jan 4, 2015)

Then that would be weird since we've seen clones can have SM aka Naruto's


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## Trojan (Jan 4, 2015)

Yes, the Kid is too good, not so much about Hashirama though. For example..
outshone Kakashi at 26.
none of his clones have SM

outshone Kakashi at 26.
outshone Kakashi at 26.
None of them have SM here either...

and you wouldn't see it in any chapter...


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## Bonly (Jan 4, 2015)

Oh so in all the chapters that he was maintaining the barrier none of his clones were in SM. Is there times that he made when not maintaining a barrier?


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## Trojan (Jan 4, 2015)

Well, when he was facing Madara as well. 

this clone here
outshone Kakashi at 26.
outshone Kakashi at 26.

though the real one was not using it either... @>@


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## Bonly (Jan 4, 2015)

Darn that Hashi and his trolling ways >_>


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## ARGUS (Jan 4, 2015)

Madara wins this mid diff at most 

 - Madaras PS in his juubi Jin state is leagues above kakashis, especially when he has six path senjutsu, juubis power and more Rikudo chakra added to his own chakra boosting his PS. Therefore madaras PS obliterates kakashis PS within a matter of few minutes 

 - kamui shuriken is also non factor when a mere katon can blow it away and make then warp it away, or madara just swings his PS blade and blows them away. Mokutons can also suffice against them 

 - kamui raikiri is also not doing much when madara can replace himself with a limbo clone or use preta path to absorb the raikir and juubi Jin regeneration to just recover from it without any problems, so it's just wasting kakashis chakra

 - once Kakashis PS is out, madara gang bangs kakashi with limbo clones which he has no way whatsoever to see or perceive so he gets smacked around by limbo and killed 

 - kamui is not doing shit either not when madara can sense the chakra built up for the long range kamui and use his rinbo hengoku through 4/5 clones to obliterate him, and intangibility is also meaningless when kakashi doesn't know when he's getting attacked so he gets wrecked


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## sabre320 (Jan 5, 2015)

ARGUS said:


> Madara wins this mid diff at most
> 
> - Madaras PS in his juubi Jin state is leagues above kakashis, especially when he has six path senjutsu, juubis power and more Rikudo chakra added to his own chakra boosting his PS. Therefore madaras PS obliterates kakashis PS within a matter of few minutes
> 
> ...



Juubidara did not show this juubi enhanced perfect sussano it would be ridiculous for him not to use it in his fight..

and why are acting like juubidara is some being superior to kaguya its the other way around juubidara was stated to be nothing compared to kaguya and kakashi accomplished his feats against her while you claim madara would easily be able to counter the hits kakashi landed on her...


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## Deer Lord (Jan 5, 2015)

You're making it out to be as if kakashi took out kaguya on his own
reality was quite far from that.


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## sabre320 (Jan 5, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> You're making it out to be as if kakashi took out kaguya on his own
> reality was quite far from that.



In the last exchange he took her headon alone and ripped her left shoulder...no distractions nothing and she is far above madara..


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## Deer Lord (Jan 5, 2015)

no distractions?
He took her by surprise since she wasn't aware of defensive kamui. Madara is.
Not to mention kakashi won't be able to take madara down with any form of raikiri.

Fact of the matter is, it doesn't matter how fast is kakashi in activating kamui phasing since he can't tell when he's attacked by madara's limbo. Furthermore, with 5 madaras non-stop attacking for 5 mins is easy.

Kakshi doesn't have any noteworthy defese on his own like naruto's shroud, his defense stems from sussano and phasing.
Phasing is worthless against limbo, and sussno himself cannot go intangible and would get destroyed with ease.
Once PS is down kakashi would get his skull kicked in by limbo clones.


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## sabre320 (Jan 5, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> no distractions?
> He took her by surprise since she wasn't aware of defensive kamui. Madara is.
> Not to mention kakashi won't be able to take madara down with any form of raikiri.
> 
> ...



um why is going intangible worthless against limbo he is immune to ay harm while intangible and can still kamui snipe..


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## Deer Lord (Jan 5, 2015)

Because it's not a passive ability.

Kakashi needs to actually know he's being attacked to activate kamui.
He has no way of knowing that when faced with limbo, since he doesn't have Rinnegan/SM.

Limbo is the best counter to kamui (other than kamui itself ofc)


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## Hachibi (Jan 5, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> um why is going intangible worthless against limbo he is immune to ay harm while intangible and can still kamui snipe..



Because he can't neither sense nor see Limbo.


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## sabre320 (Jan 5, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> Because it's not a passive ability.
> 
> Kakashi needs to actually know he's being attacked to activate kamui.
> He has no way of knowing that when faced with limbo, since he doesn't have Rinnegan/SM.
> ...



kakashi stayed in ps against kaguya the moment it went down he went intangible same goes here...he has knowledge on limbo he remains intangible because of the threat its no counter  ..


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## Deer Lord (Jan 5, 2015)

Like I said before.
When faced with 5 madaras kakashi is going to run out of kamui time.
If he soldifies to go on the offensive he'll get limbo'd right away.

He's just outclassed here.


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## sabre320 (Jan 5, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> Like I said before.
> When faced with 5 madaras kakashi is going to run out of kamui time.
> If he soldifies to go on the offensive he'll get limbo'd right away.
> 
> He's just outclassed here.



he does not need to solidify to use kamui offensively and he is able to use kamui fast enough to neautralize kaguyas spacetime attack..he can kamui warp madara


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## Hachibi (Jan 5, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> he does not need to solidify to use kamui offensively



Proof



> and he is able to use kamui fast enough to neautralize kaguyas spacetime attack



Correction: It was her bone that he kamui'd.



> ..he can kamui warp madara



If he doesn't block LoS with Mokuton or Gudodama.


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## sabre320 (Jan 5, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> Proof
> 
> 
> 
> ...



what do you think the two eyes in tandom accomplish?

It was her portal he kamuid mid attack not the bone..the bone fired through the portal is faster then her hand extended through the portal which was able to catch sasuke before he could react...her space time technique used in an offensive manner is offensively fast...stop downlplaying..

kakashi can kamui much faster then those two techniques can be executed....kakashi can easily warp the guodama...he wasable towarp gedo mazo sized targets mid summon this pre rikudo chakra feat is faster then either guodama {gated lee is faster} and mokuton..


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## Hachibi (Jan 5, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> what do you think the two eyes in tandom accomplish?



Susano?



> It was her portal he kamuid mid attack not the bone..the bone fired through the portal is faster then her hand extended through the portal which was able to catch sasuke before he could react...her space time technique used in an offensive manner is offensively fast...stop downlplaying..



You can't wrap a portal. Also, not sure what her hand speed had to do with this since she doesn't need to move to lauch the arrow.



> kakashi can kamui much faster then those two techniques can be executed



Considering how fast "World Tree" affected the planet, I'm not so sure.



> ....kakashi can easily warp the guodama...he wasable towarp gedo mazo sized targets mid summon



He actually failed his objective when he did that (Gedo's head). Also there's multiple Gudodama.



> this pre rikudo chakra feat is faster then either guodama {gated lee is faster} and mokuton..



The Gudodama's throwing speed is far slower than his shape shifting one anyways (ex: faster than 8th Gate Gai's EE)


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## StarWanderer (Jan 5, 2015)

2 Ayes Madara *STOMPS*. Rikudou Kakashi was able to do anything to Kaguya *ONLY* when hse was unstable.

2 Ayes Juubidara has Limbo, Chibaku Tensei, 10 Tailes chakra, Hashirama's Sage Mode. Rikudou Kakashi is very outclassed here.


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## ARGUS (Jan 5, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> Juubidara did not show this juubi enhanced perfect sussano it would be ridiculous for him not to use it in his fight..


the moment he got his other eye back, 
the only thing he used was CT followed by IT, 
and then he was one shotted  by BZ, 

he barely got the time to fight, 
besides he has all the pre requisites and requirements of having boosted PS, 
just because he didnt use it, doesnt mean that he cant 


> and why are acting like juubidara is some being superior to kaguya its the other way around juubidara was stated to be nothing compared to kaguya


When did i say that Madara is stronger than Kaguya?  
I am well aware that Kaguya is an entire tier above him, thats obvious
and kakashi is an entire tier below madara, according to feats and portrayal 


> and kakashi accomplished his feats against her while you claim madara would easily be able to counter the hits kakashi landed on her...


Well Kamui raikiri is garbage at its finest, when it cant breach madaras PS,
and even if madara is without his defense, he can still use preta to absorb the raikiri,, and juubi jin regeneration to comfortably recover,  
not to mention that before kakashi even lands that, he would get gang banged by the Limbos
so either wayy, he dies,


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## Mercurial (Jan 6, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> 2 Ayes Madara *STOMPS*. Rikudou Kakashi was able to do anything to Kaguya *ONLY* when hse was unstable.
> 
> 2 Ayes Juubidara has Limbo, Chibaku Tensei, 10 Tailes chakra, Hashirama's Sage Mode. Rikudou Kakashi is very outclassed here.



Actually DMS Kakashi fought Kaguya when she was stronger than ever (1).

He can shit on Linbo: he can camp in Perfect Susanoo (), therefore having a constant defence, and fight by long range spamming Kamui Shuriken, with either Kamui Shuriken being able to create a giant warp that closes instantly and covers an area as big as the Perfect Susanoo himself, and with them being spammable and at least four at once (), it's a big problem for Madara; as they are made by Kakashi adding Kamui's power to Susanoo, Kakashi can likely create a Kamui Sword too (4), so Kakashi's Perfect Susanoo >> Madara's Perfect Susanoo, definitely. We know that Rinnegan Sasuke could easily react to Linbo, more than once, and counter it/defend from it, more than once; the same Rinnegan Sasuke was blitzed by Kaguya's S/T (5)(6) (with Naruto being nearly blitzed too, and he also could dodge Linbo, even when he fought in his weaker form (7)). The same S/T that Kakashi easily reacted to, and outspeeded in execution with his long range version of Kamui (8)(9). So if Madara tries to one-shot with Linbo, Kakashi will always one-shot faster with Kamui, warping his head off before he can react.

Moreso: Linbo doesn't work after a certain distance, so Kakashi can camp away, then teleport behind Madara with Kamui at maximized speed (having both eyes (10) with perfect mastery and also Rikudo chakra enhancing their powers ()) and then blitz him with Kamui Raikiri; Kaguya has faster reflexes and physical speed than Madara and a S/T jutsu and couldn't dodge Kakashi's quick thrust (phasing means nothing, phasing or not she could have simply side-stepped if she could), she didn't react until he pierced her, Zetsu couldn't react too (12)(13); so Madara won't. Also Kaguya, while in a stronger form, couldn't dodge Kakashi, as shown, while she, in a weaker form, could dodge Sasuke (14)(15), the same Sasuke that could at very least trouble Madara. If it doesn't kill him (cutting his head off should suffice; but you know, Madara claims to be immortal), he warps his body in the other dimension in an istant, and he is damned to stay there forever, thus Kakashi wins. 

Kakashi also nullifies Gudodama with Rikudo chakra added to his ninjutsu, or simply warps them with Kamui or bypasses with phasing. Kakashi is also physically faster and can teleport everywhere he wants, in the real world or between the two dimensions (Kamui world and real world) as he wishes, gaining a giant advantage in mobility and tactics; something a genius fighter like him could definitely take advantage of. Kamui phasing and teleporting also let him survive Madara's multiple Chibaku Tensei, or Shin Jukai Kotan, with ease. Not to mention everything Madara does, Kakashi can basically outspeed with Kamui, in offense and in defense, this even while being in Perfect Susanoo and making a strategy with his superior intellect. Madara has far superior power, but is useless to the best hax in the series, at disposal at the smartest fighter in the series.


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## Altair21 (Jan 6, 2015)

Madara stomps the hell out of him. It was going to take 2 stronger shinobi working together just to bring him down. Not to mention there's absolutely nothing Kakashi can do to counter limbo.


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## Mercurial (Jan 6, 2015)

Funny how people say that Kakashi can't counter Linbo, when Madara can't counter long range Kamui or Kamui phasing or Kamui Raikiri. Or how no one even tries to counter how Kamui negs Linbo (read above).


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## T-Bag (Jan 6, 2015)

LOL wtf is this comparison? this is like a heavyweight boxer vs a lightweight. Dual rinnegan Juubi Madara is the 2nd most powerful character in the entire series behind kaguya. "rikudou" kakashi would get eaten and shitted out that same min it starts


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## Empathy (Jan 6, 2015)

Two-eyed Juubi jinchuuriki Madara? Not even the one-eyed version that narrowly defeated _Shimon_ Gai? The incarnation that was compared to Rikudou Sennin and EoS Sasuke; that rivaled Naruto and Sasuke simultaneously, despite each possessing half of Hagoromo's chakra — and then subsequently cast _Mugen Tsukuyomi_ onto the world? And his fans are trying to say Kakashi is superior to all that? Kakashi is going to compete with all that just because he got another Mangekyou sharingan and a mere fraction of Juubi jinchuuriki Obito's (who was still weaker than even one-eyed Juubi jinchuuriki Madara) dying rikudou chakra, while his superpowers come with a time limit? Madara absorbs or negates _Kamui_ and any of its variants, and easily kills Kakashi even with his (comparatively) underpowered perfect _Susanoo_; he doesn't even have to wait for Kakashi's superpowers to go away before reiatsu crushing him. Ridiculous.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jan 6, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> Since this section lacked Trancendant/God Tier
> 
> Location: Madara vs Bijuus
> Distance: 25 meters
> ...



Madara obviously wins. 

To get by the Kamui phasing jutsu, all Madara has to do us use Limbo. If not, he could just catch Kakashi off-guard with a crazy powerful Shinra Tensei (which is possible 100% of the time). 

In the event of a PS battle: Madara's PS would be insanely superior to Kakashi's. 

Madara pretty much stomps.

Canon knowledge is like Madara having full knowledge given the Zetsu network.

No-knowledge makes things interesting. Though Madara is more talented and perspective than Kakashi/Minato/Konan with jutsu. Chances are he'd be able to figure out the Kamui phase limit quite quickly.



Raikiri19 said:


> Funny how people say that Kakashi can't counter Linbo, when Madara can't counter long range Kamui or Kamui phasing or Kamui Raikiri. Or how no one even tries to counter how Kamui negs Linbo (read above).



How does Kakashi counter Limbo? 

Kamui Raikiri, long range and phasing Kamui can easily be countered by Shinra Tensei. Two of them can be stopped with Preta Path and one can be raped with Limbo.

Sasuke showed you can manipulate the Bijuu's chakra (not use their individual powers), when they're under your control. Madara has *all* the Bijuu under his control. Tell me why he won't just use PS (which would be stronger with two Rinnegan and Juubi power) and release all his Juubi chakra within it?


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## ARGUS (Jan 7, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> Funny how people say that Kakashi can't counter Linbo, *when Madara can't counter long range Kamui or Kamui phasing or Kamui Raikiri.* Or how no one even tries to counter how *Kamui negs Linbo (read above)*.


Nope, its the other way around, 
Kamui was being dealt with by 1 eyed JJ madara without any probllems, 
where as Kakashi has no way of dealing with limbos at all, 

he cant see them, nor could he see percieve them, therefore hes not activating intangiblity, so he gets smacked around and gang banged by the Limbos,, 

furthemore Long Range kamui is not doing shit to madara, 
he can sense the chakra built up for the jutsu, and in that time he can either evade  the jutsu or smack kakashi down with Rinbo Hengoku, (which would be far stronger than what he used  in his RT form against the bijuus) 

furthermore, *Madaras TSB alone were shown to be comparable to the speed of Double Kamui, * and he flat out stated that his * Limbo would be even faster,* 

and what makkes matters worse for you,is that kamui is a jutsu based on the users LoS, and as far as that is concerned, with kakashi lacking the rinnegan means that he cant even see the limbos, and with his defensses gone, means that kakashi gets wrecked, 

as for Kamui Raikiri, thats not doing much either, 
the databook has already confirmed that it warps what it pierces, 
with preta here, the raikiri gets absorbed, so madara doesnt have to do shit, 
or kakashi solidfying to attack would just equal in him getting smacked around by 4/5 limbos


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## sabre320 (Jan 7, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> Funny how people say that Kakashi can't counter Linbo, when Madara can't counter long range Kamui or Kamui phasing or Kamui Raikiri. Or how no one even tries to counter how Kamui negs Linbo (read above).



I have to agree with you rikudo kakashis feats are pretty insane problem most people have with this matchup is madaras portrayal as a juubijin ect with rinnegan but kakashi is pure hax...


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## Deer Lord (Jan 7, 2015)

nah, it's just that you two let your kakashi wank trump common sense.


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## Prinz Porno (Jan 7, 2015)

It's not a wank when you have one of the best feats in the manga. Kakashi has the speed, reaction, durabilty offense and hax to fight with Madara equally.


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## Deer Lord (Jan 7, 2015)

He really doesn't, madara has him outclassed in every stat.
This is a guy superior to naruto and sasuke (individually), kakashi is not beating him on his own.


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## sabre320 (Jan 7, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> nah, it's just that you two let your kakashi wank trump common sense.



Iol i dont wank kakashi  the fact is he has some of the best feats in the manga against an enemy far superior to madara and he handily outperformed sasuke in that battle sasuke was able to cut madara in half....kakashi needs to land one attack and madaras defeated whether it be a kamui raikiri to the head or a kamui warp kamui warp negates the regeneration and durability and intangibility leaves him immune to all of madaras assaults while he still has the option of long range kamui while intangible at the speed that it could stop kaguyas space time attack mid way..the bone was barely out of her hand...this attack was the same speed she used to teleport sasuke to the other dimesnion..if he can land attacks on an upgraded kaguya then he can easily land them on madara....this kaguya was stated to be much stronger then the one already far above madara so yeah....just going on his feats


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## Hachibi (Jan 7, 2015)

Outperforming Sasuke is irrevelant since he got a power-up during the second fight against Naruto.


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## ARGUS (Jan 7, 2015)

Why are people talking about kamui raikiri like its some game changer? its not doing shit here

Databook has already established that kamui raikiri only warps what it pierces, so Madara can comfortably negate all of its damage with preta path, or he can just use susanoo or his TSB shield to block the raikiri 
not to mention that kakashi actually has to solidify to use it, which allows madara the opportunity to smack him down with Rinbo hengoku,, 

kamui raikiri pressuring madara is a joke


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## sabre320 (Jan 7, 2015)

Ahan how is it irrelevant when this sasuke blitzed madara and cut him in half....kakashi needs toget into cqc which he can through kamui intangibilty and use kamui...he managed to straight up blitzkreig an upgraded kaguya why cant he do the same against madara once he gets into cqc he can use kamui warp ...kamui ignores durability and regen..no need to seal its speed was enough to stop kaguyas space time attack midway....
* Limbo would be even faster,*
* Limbo would be even faster,*
* Limbo would be even faster,*

this is the space time attack from pre upgrade kaguya....it left sasuke helpless...this sasuke had reactions enough to fight evenly with madara and blitz him with his space time tech...

* Limbo would be even faster,*

 NON UPGRADED  kaguya easily dealt with the same attack

* Limbo would be even faster,*

Kaguyas chakra arms were fast enough to blitz narutos clones that fought equally with madaras limbo ones...

* Limbo would be even faster,*
* Limbo would be even faster,*

durability is useless against kamui...

Here she is greatly upgraded...and her speed and reactions greatly improved....

* Limbo would be even faster,*

holy shit whats this kakashi just blitzkriegd this kaguya.....and you guys say madara will be able to react instantly and capitalize with limbo yeah
* Limbo would be even faster,*

The upgraded kaguya opened the new portal to teleport the one instantly to aruto but before it had moved kakashi collapsed the portal with kamui...this was faster then god mode naruto moved an inch so please stop accusing me of wanking when i provide the feats when you guys are wanking madara on portrayal....


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## Deer Lord (Jan 7, 2015)

Let's compare them now, shall we?

Offense:
Kakashi has mountain busting PS (if we scale off madara), kamui shuriken, Kamui raikiri and offensive kamui.
Everything else is irrelevent.

Madara has the Six paths, Gudodama, Bijuudama on continental scale, chibaku tensei raindrop massive enough to stalemate with naruto *and *sasuke. Juubi powered mokuton/ranton and rinbo hengoku.

Defense:
Kakashi has his PS, scalling off madara that can withstand small country-level BD. It was however busted by kaguya's bones.
He also have defensive kamui which is his greatest asset here.
other than that he doesn't have any note worthy dura.

Madara should have a PS superior to sasuke's, which could tank RSM naruto's BD with minor injury. Even if you dismiss sussano, madara was still able to withstand hits from 8th gate guy which means he tanks everything kakashi has that isn't kamui'd with ease.
With gudodama barriers his defense is augumented further.
He also has impressive regen allowing him to recover from night guy and being bisected by sasuke, so even if he loses body parts to kamui/raikiri they are easily recovered.

Hax:
Kakashi can teleport and warp madara, as can his kamui shuriken. He also has MS precog.
Being powered by a fraction of juubito's chakra also boosts his jutsu somewhat.

Madara has EMS precog, the juubi bossting his juutsu. Preta-path to nullify ninjutsu, deva-path to block everything else. 
Rinbo can spwan 4 clones with his stats that are undetectable to kakashi in any way and can kill him with ease if he isn't protected.


Anyway you look at it kakashi is outclassed.
kamui shuriken are lol'd at by shinra tensei, PS is lol'd at by chbaku tensei, BD or madara's own PS.
Offensive kamui can be blocked with a lombo clone/ truth-seeker orb (which have already been demonstrated as faster).
Kamui raikiri isn't doing shit thanks to preta-path and regen.
Defensive kamui is useless against an undetectable enemy, and even if kakashi decides to just use it constantly, 5 madaras can easily force him out of the time limit.

If by some miracle none of these happen madara just outlasts kakashi with overwhelming chakra reserves.

Madara wins 10/10


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## Hachibi (Jan 7, 2015)

Sasuke blitzing Madara only worked with Rinnegan Shifting (I will never get used to the name), which is a better S/T technique for blitzing than Kamui. Besides, the Madara that got blitzed only had one eye, so irrevelant.


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## sabre320 (Jan 7, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> Sasuke blitzing Madara only worked with Rinnegan Shifting (I will never get used to the name), which is a better S/T technique for blitzing than Kamui. Besides, the Madara that got blitzed only had one eye, so irrevelant.



lol ignore everything else.... but how does the second rinnegan improve madaras reactions and speed??


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## Hachibi (Jan 7, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> lol ignore everything else.... but how does the second rinnegan improve madaras reactions and speed??



Because Madara got thrashed by the Bijuus but after he got one Rinnegan back he thrashed them, Tobirama and Sasuke?


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## sabre320 (Jan 7, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> Because Madara got thrashed by the Bijuus but after he got one Rinnegan back he thrashed them, Tobirama and Sasuke?



Wth madara used gedo path on the bijuu a hard counter to the biju...and used limbo against sasuke....against tobirama he didnt use any rinnegan technique and didnt need it he easilty trolled a blind side ftg attack from behind ignoring dojutsu line of sight...he already had limbo with one rinnegan how the heck is the second rinnegan supposed to help him from being blitzd by sasuke?/


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## Deer Lord (Jan 7, 2015)

He had one rinbo clone with 1Rinnegan and that one got incapacitated by nardo. 
with 2 he has four of them.

And besides, it only makes sense that someone would be able to see better with two of his eyes...


Not that any of this is relevant since kakshi has nothing on par with sasuke's tech.


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## sabre320 (Jan 7, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> He had one rinbo clone with 1Rinnegan and that one got incapacitated by nardo.
> with 2 he has four of them.
> 
> And besides, it only makes sense that someone would be able to see better with two of his eyes...
> ...



sasukes tech is the weakest among the space time techs....kaguya easily dealt with it prepowerup and yet was helpless against kakashis kamui when upgraded not to mention her space time technique was directly neautralized by the same kamui...and why in gods name are u using kamuis speed before the rikudo chakra in the argument after the rikudo powerup kakashis reactions were massively increased and he can activate the technique much quicker....he collapsed the portal mid attack and that attack was fast enough to tag narutos god clone which performed on par with limbo clones and the same technique blitzd sasuke...

yeah right....see better with both eyes...he gets the gains of precog with on eye but retains the threat perception of senjutsu the second eye is negligible in reactions and would serve no purpose in saving him from the blitz..


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## Deer Lord (Jan 7, 2015)

Let's say for the sake of argument that kakashi hits madara
then what?

it's not going to kill him.
Raikiri is negated with preta
All madara has to do in order to avoid his head being wraped with kamui is spawn a rinbo clone in front of him
or you know, just shift a truth seeker orb from being an inch away from his head to being in front of his head.

plus you've ingnored everything else I and others have brough up.


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## Mercurial (Jan 7, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> Iol i dont wank kakashi  the fact is he has some of the best feats in the manga against an enemy far superior to madara and he handily outperformed sasuke in that battle sasuke was able to cut madara in half....kakashi needs to land one attack and madaras defeated whether it be a kamui raikiri to the head or a kamui warp kamui warp negates the regeneration and durability and intangibility leaves him immune to all of madaras assaults while he still has the option of long range kamui while intangible at the speed that it could stop kaguyas space time attack mid way..the bone was barely out of her hand...this attack was the same speed she used to teleport sasuke to the other dimesnion..if he can land attacks on an upgraded kaguya then he can easily land them on madara....this kaguya was stated to be much stronger then the one already far above madara so yeah....just going on his feats





sabre320 said:


> Ahan how is it irrelevant when this sasuke blitzed madara and cut him in half....kakashi needs toget into cqc which he can through kamui intangibilty and use kamui...he managed to straight up blitzkreig an upgraded kaguya why cant he do the same against madara once he gets into cqc he can use kamui warp ...kamui ignores durability and regen..no need to seal its speed was enough to stop kaguyas space time attack midway....
> * Limbo would be even faster,*
> * Limbo would be even faster,*
> * Limbo would be even faster,*
> ...



This. And the funny thing is that even portrayal favors Kakashi, as he outperformed a stronger being than Madara. He is portrayed even better than Naruto and Sasuke, at the very very least on their level, when they were doing shit against Kaguya (Sasuke was absolutely shit, Naruto was going decently) and he came and basically settled the battle in one chapter with his hax, strategy and actions, with the excuse for them of not using their absolute best.



Deer Lord said:


> Let's say for the sake of argument that kakashi hits madara
> then what?
> 
> it's not going to kill him.
> ...



I saw how good Madara used Preta Path as a jinchuriki. Oh, wait... 

Sure. But with long range Kamui being faster than Kaguya's S/T, that is faster than Sasuke's reflexes, that are more than enough to react and counter Linbo, well... sorry but that's not happening. And Kamui is a lot faster than Gudodama, also. Not to mention that with phasing and Kamui Raikiri (that pierces and cuts Kaguya, who tanked nine Bijuu Rasenshuriken) the Gudodama defense is useless, but Kamui warps it nonethless. 



Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Kamui Raikiri, long range and phasing Kamui can easily be countered by Shinra Tensei. Two of them can be stopped with Preta Path and one can be raped with Limbo.
> 
> Sasuke showed you can manipulate the Bijuu's chakra (not use their individual powers), when they're under your control. Madara has *all* the Bijuu under his control. Tell me why he won't just use PS (which would be stronger with two Rinnegan and Juubi power) and release all his Juubi chakra within it?



Shinra Tensei is useless to counter Kamui Raikiri. Kakashi dashes against the opponent while phasing himself, so even if Madara unleashed on him an Hiroshima level nuke, he would just phase through and blitz him. Not to mention that with his Rikudo enhanced speed Kakashi would be too fast, Madara was troubled by Sasuke's speed, Kaguya dodged Sasuke with ease while she couldn't even react, let alone counter or sidestep, Kakashi's thrust, even if in a stronger and faster version to the one that fought and negged Sasuke.

Kakashi's long range Kamui is faster than Linbo, a lot faster, so if Kakashi and Madara try to oneshot themselves, Kakashi will always win. Kakashi's long range Kamui is faster than Kaguya's S/T, so I sincerely doubt Madara would even react to it; let alone counter it somehow. I don't think in 2015 there would still be people that think that Preta could counter Kamui, but if you still think so, I won't even bother. I'll just friendly remember that not Rikudo enhanced Kamui already warped a ninjutsu nullifying Gudodama, that Kakashi's Kamui Shuriken warped away Kaguya's body extended in her chakra arms despite his body being immune to ninjutsu, that long range Kamui is activated with chakra in the eye but it's not something made of chakra so can't be absorbed (because Preta absorbs chakra, therefore nullifying ninjutsu made of chakra or from something vitalized through continue contact with chakra), that when Kakashi tried to warp away the Gedo Mazo and Obito stopped him with his own Kamui Kakashi didn't even think for a second that the man he was fighting used Preta Path to counter his Kamui, this when Kakashi already stated that they perfectly knew all the Rinnegan/Paths powers, when the opponent was believed to be Madara Uchiha, on the opposite he stated that he would have never thought that Kamui could have been stopped. Anyway, this is pure chatting when Madara is not even reacting to DMS Kakashi's Kamui.

I don't know, but even if he could nothing would change. More power changes nothing against Kamui hax.


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## Deer Lord (Jan 7, 2015)

Madara has shown preta path as an inferior edo
no reason in hell he shouldn't be able to do so as a jin.
even without it raikiri is meaningless, madara would just heal.

The gudodama are fast enough to move less than a feet to cover madara. they nearly tagged obito while both him and kakashi were warping in the same time.


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## sabre320 (Jan 7, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> Let's say for the sake of argument that kakashi hits madara
> then what?
> 
> it's not going to kill him.
> ...



oh raikiri to the head wont kill him?
Kaguya also aborbs chakra she couldnt absorb kamui raikiri...not to mention he couldnt once absorb attacks amped by rikudo chakra against naruto and sasuke..
funny thing kakashi can kamui bijuu sized targets and making giant portals pre rikudo powerup....so spawning a limbo clone isnt doing anything...especially because it wont come in the line of sight of kamui....and rikudo kakashis kamui is much faster then guodamas movement speed...gated lee is faster then guodamas movement speed....stop comparing rikudo kakashi with a barely alive dying obito...their reaction speed is tiers apart....kakashi blitzkriegd a kaguya with much faster speed and strength while the base kaguya was stated to be far above madara..


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jan 7, 2015)

Someone tell me why Limbo isn't going to rape Kakashi?


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## sabre320 (Jan 7, 2015)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Someone tell me why Limbo isn't going to rape Kakashi?



already did read above without madara tinted glasses


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## Deer Lord (Jan 7, 2015)

- When has kaguya absorbed incoming attacks?

- When has kakashi/obito warped somthing while being intangble?

and for the love of god "Blitzing kaguya", who is a shit fighter and wasn't aware of kamui at all (unlike in here) doen't even mean anything.
It would if he managed to kill her, but he didn't.
he wasn't even the main threat, what he did was help naruto and sauce deal with her.
when faced with her alone he gets shitstomped. the same happens with madara.

And now that I think about it, madara doesn't even need preta against kakashi, deva path would be enough to block raikiri, and don't you try to claim "but madara never used deva in jubbi form" cause he spammed CT.

You have no answer as to why limbo doesn't screw kakashi over the moment he attacks.


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## Bonly (Jan 7, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> - When has kaguya absorbed incoming attacks?



She absorbed Sasuke's Ama


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## Deer Lord (Jan 7, 2015)

Then this kinda contradicts sabre's argument about rikudo powered attacks being unabsorable.


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## Mercurial (Jan 7, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> and for the love of god "Blitzing kaguya", who is a shit fighter and wasn't aware of kamui at all (unlike in here) doen't even mean anything.
> It would if he managed to kill her, but he didn't.
> he wasn't even the main threat, what he did was help naruto and sauce deal with her.
> when faced with her alone he gets shitstomped. the same happens with madara.
> ...



Yeah, a shit fighter. It's not she could dodge Sasuke's S/T + Chidori like nothing, in a weaker version than the one that Kakashi fought. Oh wait  I love the excuses and the selective thinking.

Yeah, definitely. Must be this the reason why Kakashi settled that battle in a single chapter, countering, dodging, hitting and outperforming Kaguya, while Naruto and Sasuke couldn't do for a lot of time, risking also their lives more than once and needing help. Oh wait 

Because Kakashi screws Madara before he even thinks to use Linbo. Long range Kamui is much faster, as is faster than Kaguya's S/T that is faster than Sasuke's reflexes that are more than enough to react and counter Madara's Linbo.


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## sabre320 (Jan 7, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> Then this kinda contradicts sabre's argument about rikudo powered attacks being unabsorable.



first of all i said madara couldnt...and sasukes amaterasu is not enhanced by rikudo chakra as otherwise i doubt narutos basic chakra cloak would tank it...when it is directly used in jutsu e.g sealing rasengan and black chidori madara couldnt absorb it


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## Mercurial (Jan 7, 2015)

Amaterasu doesn't even count. Everyone and their mother could shit on it someway


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## Deer Lord (Jan 7, 2015)

> Not enhanced by rikudo chakra
> Coming right out of the fucking rinnegan

As to why madara didn't use it against naruto and sauce, I suspect it's due to only having one eye at the time
he also unlocked deva path only after gaining his second eye but the fight ended shortly after.

Regardless he still wielded it as an edo, so there is no reason he shouldn't here.


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## Hachibi (Jan 7, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> Amaterasu doesn't even count. Everyone and their mother could shit on it someway



Must be why Kaguya was afraid of it.


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## Prinz Porno (Jan 7, 2015)

I only see Madara winning if he can somehow outlast Kakashi, which he can without a doubt but at the same time we have one of the if not the most hax ninja in Narutoverse...basically Kakashi is invinsible for couple of minutes, the question is, can he take Madara down as long as he is in his ghost mode? I would say yes, Kakashi has the tools to beat everyone except Kaguya of course, if not then Madara will stomp Kakashi as soon as he is not in ghost mode again.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jan 7, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> already did read above without madara tinted glasses



I want a sensible argument.

Why won't Kakashi be raped by Limbo. Dude can't even see it.


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## Mercurial (Jan 7, 2015)

Because he can oneshot Madara faster than Madara can use Linbo. Yeah, it's that easy.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jan 7, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> Because he can oneshot Madara faster than Madara can use Linbo. Yeah, it's that easy.



Because Shinra Tensei and Preta Path don't exist. Also the same reason he did that with Madara and Kayuga.


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## RedChidori (Jan 7, 2015)

VolatileSoul said:


> Would be nice if we could just pretend the whole Kaguya arc never happened, because Madara loses this by feats, and that makes all of shit sense.
> 
> Limbo is the only technique can touch Kakashi, but it can't kill, just smack people around or hold them in place, and once Kakashi is touched he'll just phase to break free. MT is useless since Kakakshi can either wait it out in the other dimension, or just stay intangible and let the light pass through him instead of touching him.
> 
> ...



Basically what Soul said pertaining to the topic at hand.


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## tkpirate (Jan 8, 2015)

Kamui is haxed as fuck.without PIS/CIS Kakashi should win this.


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## sabre320 (Jan 8, 2015)

RedChidori said:


> Basically what Soul said pertaining to the topic at hand.



pretty much kakashis feats are insane!


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## Ryuzaki (Jan 29, 2015)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> I want a sensible argument.
> 
> Why won't Kakashi be raped by Limbo. Dude can't even see it.


There is a good chance that Kakashi can probably sense it, the same way Naruto was able to sense Madara's attacks but couldn't see him though, that was in fact due to the senjutsu chakra (i.e. rikuodou chakra). Kakashi also never uses a straight on frontal assault without a strategy in mind but when he does, he is usually intangible until he hits his target. You wanted sensible, that's most I can do for you, even with the sensing bit, I know I'm gripping at straws.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jan 29, 2015)

Ryuzaki said:


> There is a good chance that Kakashi can probably sense it, the same way Naruto was able to sense Madara's attacks but couldn't see him though, that was in fact due to the senjutsu chakra (i.e. rikuodou chakra). Kakashi also never uses a straight on frontal assault without a strategy in mind but when he does, he is usually intangible until he hits his target. You wanted sensible, that's most I can do for you, even with the sensing bit, I know I'm gripping at straws.



Madara was able to sense it because of the Rikudou Senjutsu; Sasuke could because of the Rinnegan. Obito had Rikudou chakra, like Kakashi, and wasn't capable of sensing. Ergo without Senjutsu of the Six Paths and the Rinnegan, Kakashi won't be able to sense it.


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## Ryuzaki (Jan 29, 2015)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Madara was able to sense it because of the Rikudou Senjutsu; Sasuke could because of the Rinnegan. Obito had Rikudou chakra, like Kakashi, and wasn't capable of sensing.


But Obito also had a rin'nengan and it wasn't enough then? It's actually odd that Obito didn't use limbo at all either.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jan 29, 2015)

Ryuzaki said:


> But Obito also had a rin'nengan and it wasn't enough then? It's actually odd that Obito didn't use limbo at all either.



Madara chose NOT to use Limbo in Obito's preference, just because he had the Rinnegan.


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## Mercurial (Jan 29, 2015)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Madara chose NOT to use Limbo in Obito's preference, just because he had the Rinnegan.



Kakashi can simply outspeed Linbo with long range Kamui or mantain Kamui phasing. Rinbo was reacted to Sasuke with ease, but Sasuke couldn't react and defend in time from Kaguya's S/T. Naruto reacted to Rinbo and dodged and countered it with ease, but he could barely react and dodge Kaguya's S/T. Kakashi's long range Kamui outspeeded Kaguya's S/T. So Kakashi's long range Kamui is far faster than Rinbo. Madara is oneshotted with his head warped away. No Preta Path bullshit when even not Rikudo empowered Kamui could warp away the Gudodama despite it nullifying every other ninjutsu; Kamui is activated with chakra but not something made of chakra or directly vitalyzed through chakra, the chakra is used only in the eye to open a dimensional portal. It is also said to be something that can't be stopped when it is started, this by the databook and by Kakashi himself, who is a genius with full knowledge on the Rinnegan powers, when he is fighting a Rinnegan wielder who is believed to be Madara Uchiha himself; it's not only a statement because feats and logic prove it. Not to mention that anyway Madara is not even reacting to DMS Kakashi's long range Kamui, or to Kamui teleporting with both eyes followed by Kamui Raikiri.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jan 30, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> Kakashi can simply outspeed Linbo with long range Kamui or mantain Kamui phasing. Rinbo was reacted to Sasuke with ease, but Sasuke couldn't react and defend in time from Kaguya's S/T. Naruto reacted to Rinbo and dodged and countered it with ease, but he could barely react and dodge Kaguya's S/T.



No. 

Kakashi can't outspeed Limbo; he cannot even think of doing do with a jutsu be cannot perceive. 



> Kakashi's long range Kamui outspeeded Kaguya's S/T.



You're comparing a S/T targeting Naruto and Sasuke vs a S/T NOT targeting Kakashi.




> Madara is oneshotted with his head warped away.



Shinra Tensei does a fine job of repelling Kamui. Susanoo could make a good shield too. 

Kakashi would be finished off with Limbo before he knows what happened.



> Kamui is activated with chakra but not something made of chakra or directly vitalyzed through chakra, the chakra is used only in the eye to open a dimensional portal.



Go read Kamui's databook entry.



> Not to mention that anyway Madara is not even reacting to DMS Kakashi's long range Kamui, or to Kamui teleporting with both eyes followed by Kamui Raikiri.



Your idea of the DMS Kamui is probably the faultiest argument so far.

Actually show me that Kakashi countered a S/T targeting him before claiming it is faster than Kayuga's.

The only thing which could protect Kakashi is the phasing Kamui. Of course nothing protects Kakashi from a jutsu he cannot see.

PROVE that Kakashi can perceive Limbo, then we can talk. Otherwise Kakashi just gets raped by that one jutsu. No other jutsu really becomes worth discussing when one jutsu literally rapes him.


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## Mercurial (Jan 30, 2015)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> No.
> 
> Kakashi can't outspeed Limbo; he cannot even think of doing do with a jutsu be cannot perceive.
> 
> ...



He attacks first, his attack is faster, he wins. That is.

Prove that it was slower/faster. You can't. I can fanfiction that the one Kakashi negged was even faster than the one that negged Sasuke and nearly took out Naruto, as that version of Kaguya was said to be on a far superior level than before. 

Not when Madara can't react to it because it happens too fast. Not when unfortunately Kamui warp it's not something physical or anyway anything that could be repelled. As said, Kamui is said to be something that can't be stopped when it is started, this by the databook and by Kakashi himself, who is a genius with full knowledge on the Rinnegan powers, when he is fighting a Rinnegan wielder who is believed to be Madara Uchiha himself, and doesn't even think that a Rinnegan power stopped his Kamui on the Gedo Mazo, as surprised as he can be; it's not only a statement because feats and logic prove it.

I can't read. . 

Prove that it wasn't as fast. I can argue that it was even faster. Kakashi reacted to it and outspeeded it with Kamui neg diff. I am waiting for your proof. 

Long range Kamui (powered up with Rikudo chakra) that Madara can't react to and can't counter is GG for him. Kamui self teleporting behind him (at maximized speed with both eyes + Rikudo chakra) followed by Kamui Raikiri he can't dodge or counter is GG.


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## Ryuzaki (Jan 30, 2015)

I'm still confused MOD, when Obito was the Juubi Sage, why didn't he then use limbo to fight Naruto and the other guys. It seems like he should have been able to.


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## Bonly (Jan 30, 2015)

Ryuzaki said:


> I'm still confused MOD, when Obito was the Juubi Sage, why didn't he then use limbo to fight Naruto and the other guys. It seems like he should have been able to.



Could be a case that he didn't know about, well either that or he got the whole "you have all these different abilities but I'm not gonna let you use them all because YOLO" thing Kishi like to do to his characters.


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## Ryuzaki (Jan 30, 2015)

Perhaps, I don't know, it's really awkward that Madara has it but he wasn't able to use it. But yeah, if Obito could become intangible as the Jinchuriki, I don't think they could have stopped him.


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## Raiken (Jan 30, 2015)

Madara stomps


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jan 30, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> H.



Read my last line. All jutsu become obsolete because you cannot prove that Kakashi won't be completely raped by Limbo.

Show me that Kakashi can perceive Limbo.


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## Kai (Jan 30, 2015)

Why on earth is this 8 pages.

Kakashi gets demolished by Limbo. Each of Madara's shadows takes a turn slamming Kakashi's body.


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## Ryuzaki (Jan 30, 2015)

Kai said:


> Why on earth is this 8 pages.
> 
> Kakashi gets demolished by Limbo. Each of Madara's shadows takes a turn slamming Kakashi's body.


Intangible Kamui to the rescue


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## Bonly (Jan 30, 2015)

Kai said:


> *Why on earth is this 8 pages.*
> 
> Kakashi gets demolished by Limbo. Each of Madara's shadows takes a turn slamming Kakashi's body.



Because you let Rin die 



Ryuzaki said:


> Intangible Kamui to the rescue



How would he know when to use it if he can't see the clones in order for it to come to the rescue?


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## Deer Lord (Jan 30, 2015)

Kai said:


> Why on earth is this 8 pages.


Because Raikiri19.



Bonly said:


> How would he know when to use it if he can't see the clones in order for it to come to the rescue?


A question people in this thread have been avoiding since page 1.


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## Mercurial (Jan 30, 2015)

The answer is simple. He oneshots Madara before he can try to oneshot him because his jutsu is definitely faster. As it's faster than Kaguya's S/T jutsu that blitzed Sasuke and nearly blitzed Naruto, both perfectly able to react and counter Linbo.


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## Ryuzaki (Jan 30, 2015)

Bonly said:


> How would he know when to use it if he can't see the clones in order for it to come to the rescue?


Well, he's still got sage chakra right, so he can just sense them the same Naruto was able to. But even so, he can just blindly charge Madara with everything being intangible except for what he wants to attack him with, you know like he did against Crapguya 

Also come on guys, this is Kakashi man will probably use some type of bunshin feint.


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## Bonly (Jan 31, 2015)

Ryuzaki said:


> Well, he's still got sage chakra right, so he can just sense them the same Naruto was able to.



But can you prove he will be able to sense them? Sasuke got the Sage's chakra yet he wasn't able to sense them, just see them and vice verse Naruto got the Sage's chakra and he was able to sense them, not see them. Can you prove that having the same chakra as Obito is good enough to suggest that Kakashi will sense them?



> But even so, he can just blindly charge Madara with everything being intangible except for what he wants to attack him with, you know like he did against Crapguya



Kakashi has a time limit to how long he can last like that and if he does stop to attack he'll be open to counter attacks and what not.



> Also come on guys, this is Kakashi man will probably use some type of bunshin feint.



Also come on guys, this is Madara man will probably use some type of unseen powerful jutsu.


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## KeyofMiracles (Jan 31, 2015)

Madara may win, but to all the people using Limbo as an argument. How does Limbo stop Kakashi when he's in Susanoo? Madara's physical strength isn't putting a dent on Susanoo, nor will Limbo phase through it and hit Kakashi,


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## Deer Lord (Jan 31, 2015)

KeyofMiracles said:


> Madara may win, but to all the people using Limbo as an argument. How does Limbo stop Kakashi when he's in Susanoo? Madara's physical strength isn't putting a dent on Susanoo, nor will Limbo phase through it and hit Kakashi,


Sussano can't go intangeble, only kakashi can.
Busting kakashi's PS is child's play for someone of madara's caliber.


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## Ryuzaki (Jan 31, 2015)

Bonly said:


> But can you prove he will be able to sense them? Sasuke got the Sage's chakra yet he wasn't able to sense them, just see them and vice verse Naruto got the Sage's chakra and he was able to sense them, not see them. Can you prove that having the same chakra as Obito is good enough to suggest that Kakashi will sense them?


Again, I'm just extrapolating from the manga, Sasuke was able to see him as to whether he could sense him is another story altogether. But technically, based on what we know about senjutsu, once you have it you have the ability to sense attacks coming at you, so he may not be able to see it but there's a strong possibility that he can sense.



Bonly said:


> Kakashi has a time limit to how long he can last like that and if he does stop to attack he'll be open to counter attacks and what not.


I don't think the time limit will be an issue, he should be able to last longer than 5 minutes, which is plenty of time to put down Madara. Although, I'll be quite honest, I don't think Kakashi can 'defeat' Juubidara, best he can hope for is sending him into another dimension. If you were to restrict all aspects of the Juubi and pit Kakashi against Madara then, there would be a stronger possibility for his victory.



Bonly said:


> Also come on guys, this is Madara man will probably use some type of unseen powerful jutsu.


Well, Madara's restricted to what he's shown and Kakashi has seen most of his arsenal but a bunshin feint should be plausible, since generally, it's his start up move for pretty much every fight.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jan 31, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> The answer is simple. He oneshots Madara before he can try to oneshot him because his jutsu is definitely faster. As it's faster than Kaguya's S/T jutsu that blitzed Sasuke and nearly blitzed Naruto, both perfectly able to react and counter Linbo.



So you admit that Kakashi has no way of perceiving Limbo. Rather you use fabricated ideas of him allegedly being able to one shot Madara prior him using Limbo.

Shinra Tensei, or even Gedou Dama could negate Kakashi's efforts. Limbo rapes Kakashi thereafter.

Actually forget that, Madara can just substitute with one Limbo and have the other rape Kakashi.


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## Mercurial (Jan 31, 2015)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> So you admit that Kakashi has no way of perceiving Limbo. Rather you use fabricated ideas of him allegedly being able to one shot Madara prior him using Limbo.
> 
> Shinra Tensei, or even Gedou Dama could negate Kakashi's efforts. Limbo rapes Kakashi thereafter.
> 
> Actually forget that, Madara can just substitute with one Limbo and have the other rape Kakashi.



I never denied, so it's not like I'm admitting it now, what's your point then? I always said that he can't perceive it or sense it. He doesn't need, because if he feels he wants he can casually oneshot Madara with long range Kamui which is faster. Or he can play the defensive with Kamui phasing always activated or camping in Perfect Susanoo, then Kamui teleporting behind Madara (Kamui teleporting can't be sensed) and Kamui Raikiri through his head.

Yeah, Shinra Tensei is really a problem when you can phase through it. Gudoudama are really a problem when you can warp away them casually with Kamui, phase through them with Kamui, or neg them with Rikudo chakra added to attacks.

He could, if he could react to long range Kamui or Kamui Raikiri. Being long range Kamui a lot faster than Kaguya's S/T that blitzed someone at least close in speed to Madara if not better (Sasuke) and nearly blitzed someone faster (Naruto), he cannot. Being Kaguya, who was able to dodge Sasuke's Rinnegan instant teleporting followed by Chidori, unable to react, dodge, or counter the Kamui Raikiri even in her strongest and fastest form, he cannot.


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## Ryuzaki (Jan 31, 2015)

Can't see ST stopping anyone, that was the most PIS induced moment


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## Nikushimi (Jan 31, 2015)

Juubi Madara stomps due to being much faster in addition to having the Gudoudama that can apparently rape any Ninjutsu (including Perfect Susano'o, which is Kakashi's best and only physical defense).

Kakashi also really has no way to track that freaky Limbo shit...and even one-eyed pre-Juubi Madara was smacking all nine Bijuu around with it.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jan 31, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> I never denied, so it's not like I'm admitting it now, what's your point then? I always said that he can't perceive it or sense it. He doesn't need, because if he feels he wants he can casually oneshot Madara with long range Kamui which is faster. Or he can play the defensive with Kamui phasing always activated or camping in Perfect Susanoo, then Kamui teleporting behind Madara (Kamui teleporting can't be sensed) and Kamui Raikiri through his head.



Since you have no real answer to Limbo, lets fix it to that.

Madara can substitute with Limbo and use another to rape Kakashi. Though Kakashi isn't as fast as Madara, so this probably isn't going to work.  

With Kayuga's space-time, when you show me that it targeted Kakashi, not someone else while Kakashi watched, then you'll have a point. Also Madara can actually sense the chakra build up of Kamui. 

Madara rapes Kakashi with one jutsu and the latter won't know what the hell happened.


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## Prinz Porno (Jan 31, 2015)

Kamui GG strikes again, if Kakashi can react and blitz a being much more powerful then Madara, then he can do the same thing to Madara.


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## DarthAnt66 (Jan 31, 2015)

Agreed. Kamui is extremely powerful.


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## Mercurial (Jan 31, 2015)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Since you have no real answer to Limbo, lets fix it to that.
> 
> Madara can substitute with Limbo and use another to rape Kakashi. Though Kakashi isn't as fast as Madara, so this probably isn't going to work.
> 
> ...



No answer? Yeah... if you conveniently ignore them, I don't have any then.

Yeah, Kakashi it's not as fast as Madara. Yeah.





Not even accounting the fact that Kakashi can teleport himself at will with maximized speed thanks to possessing both eyes enhanced with Rikudo chakra, basically he has a seal-less free Hiraishin. Kakashi has faster reflexes too, as he could react to max speed Kaguya and her attacks and her S/T with utmost ease.

When you show me that the S/T used by Kaguya when Kakashi negged it with Kamui was slower than her usual S/T jutsu (it's not like she was in her strongest version and was desperate in trying to kill Naruto with the S/T + bone projectile), you'll have a point that won't be a fanfiction. Until then, I'll wait. Sure, if Kamui was something like Amaterasu, he would have the time to sense it. But unfortunately, Kamui is much much much faster in the non Rikudo enhanced version. Let alone the Rikudo enhanced version.

Actually that's the opposite when Kakashi's jutsu is far faster than his and he can even counter that jutsu with extended Kamui phasing or simply camping in Perfect Susanoo, but whatever helps you sleep at night.



Prinz Porno said:


> Kamui GG strikes again, if Kakashi can react and blitz a being much more powerful then Madara, then he can do the same thing to Madara.





DarthAnt66 said:


> Agreed. Kamui is extremely powerful.


Yeah. I will never understand why people are so butthurt about that, if you can't stand it blame Kishimoto, don't waste your time trying to downplay it.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jan 31, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> No answer? Yeah... if you conveniently ignore them, I don't have any then.



You actually have nothing.

You just showed Kayuga going in a straight line after Kakashi used Kamui to avoid bones. That means Kakashi can hit a target moving in a linear fashion after using Kamui alongside an eye which lets him see things in slow motion.

I.E. Kakashi isn't faster than Kayuga. 

Also Limbo still rapes.


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## Mercurial (Jan 31, 2015)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> You actually have nothing.
> 
> You just showed Kayuga going in a straight line after Kakashi used Kamui to avoid bones. That means Kakashi can hit a target moving in a linear fashion after using Kamui alongside an eye which lets him see things in slow motion.
> 
> ...



Yeah, it's not like Kaguya can fly at speed enough to dodge Sasuke's Perfect Susanoo or Rinnegan S/T + Chidori and has reflexes of a Rinnesharingan. Yeah, she probably felt in love with Kakashi so she decided to let him pierce through her just for the lulz.


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## Trojan (Jan 31, 2015)

ARGUS said:


> Why are people talking about kamui raikiri like its some game changer? its not doing shit here
> 
> Databook has already established that kamui raikiri only warps what it pierces, so Madara can comfortably negate all of its damage with preta path, or he can just use susanoo or his TSB shield to block the raikiri
> not to mention that kakashi actually has to solidify to use it, which allows madara the opportunity to smack him down with Rinbo hengoku,,
> ...



Even without Preta Path Madara is going to regenerate. :rofl
DMS Kakashi is not even a quarter of JJ Obito's power. But God knows what the power of wank can accomplish. :rofl


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## KeyofMiracles (Jan 31, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> Sussano can't go intangeble, only kakashi can.
> Busting kakashi's PS is child's play for someone of madara's caliber.



You obviously failed to read the post correctly.


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