# Gay Texas teen commits suicide, says he "couldn't make it"



## Shinigami Perv (Jun 16, 2012)

> *Teen Killed Himself Because He Was Bullied For Being Gay, Mom Says*
> 
> EL PASO, Texas -- Brandon Elizares was a bright-eyed boy with a big smile and bold dreams. The Andress High School Sophomore knew what he wanted to do with his life.
> 
> ...




More video: 

Gay teen couldn't make it.  Fuck that's depressing. 

I hope those little shithead kids are happy they drove him to suicide. To me they are little better than murderers. It really is time for something to be done about this on a federal level.


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## Kafuka de Vil (Jun 16, 2012)

I can’t help but feel that these people who commit suicide can’t look beyond the short term and take only their own feelings into account.


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## Le Pirate (Jun 16, 2012)

I feel bad for the kid, but knowing Texas I don't think much action will be taken. Also, having lived in Texas, I can say it's likely he took more then just verbal abuse. I knew a gay kid who got practically jumped by two or three kids in the hallway, and in gym and the likes he'd 'accidentally' get pushed by some of the more 'macho' guys.


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## Onomatopoeia (Jun 16, 2012)

Texas is a shithole. Feel sorry for the kid, my opinion on suicide notwithstanding.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jun 16, 2012)

MbS said:


> I can?t help but feel that these people who commit suicide can?t look beyond the short term and take only their own feelings into account.



Yea, but he lived in texas that's lots of short term man.


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## martryn (Jun 16, 2012)

Suicide?  Hard to feel sorry for him since he took the easy way out.  Life might have been hard, but it would have gotten better if only he could have hung on for a few more years.  I don't have a lot of respect for people who commit suicide because life's too hard.


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## Kafuka de Vil (Jun 16, 2012)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> Yea, but he lived in texas that's lots of short term man.



Article doesn’t really go in to detail what steps he did to help himself. If he did, I’ll have more sympathy. 

However, engaging in fights with your tormentor is a sure guaranteed way of prolonging your victimisation. That’s why they keep coming back for more.

Not really helping is it?


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## The Great Oneddd (Jun 16, 2012)

Sad. Still he took the easy way out of his troubles instead of fighting them head on.


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## Kue (Jun 16, 2012)

I'm pretty sure I know what that kid was thinking.

When you are bullied for other things, there's always somewhere to go, but when you are gay (especially in Texas), you don't have your parents, your friends, the church, nor the school to help you out.  Throw in the teenager not fully developing grey matter yet, which is responsible for decision making and perception of the future, and you have a recipe for disaster.

I get tired of people blaming the teenager for taking the easy way out or being selfish, he or she most likely doesn't even have the maturity to perceive the future realistically yet.


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## Trism (Jun 16, 2012)

These stories are always awful to hear about, and occur far too often. I do wish that these kids would think of another way. No one else is ever worth taking your life over. But all of this negativity directed at him should be directed at the bullies.



MbS said:


> However, engaging in fights with your tormentor is a sure guaranteed way of prolonging your victimisation. That’s why they keep coming back for more.
> 
> Not really helping is it?



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL6lsZy3qLc[/YOUTUBE]


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## Kafuka de Vil (Jun 16, 2012)

Trism said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL6lsZy3qLc[/YOUTUBE]



_"This video contains content that has been blocked in your country on copyright grounds."_

What am I supposed to be seeing?


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## Seph (Jun 16, 2012)

He was clearly self-centered and didn't give a damn about how miserable his family would be.


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## Mider T (Jun 16, 2012)

martryn said:


> Suicide?  Hard to feel sorry for him since he took the easy way out.  Life might have been hard, but it would have gotten better if only he could have hung on for a few more years.  I don't have a lot of respect for people who commit suicide because life's too hard.



This is pretty much how I feel.


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## Trism (Jun 16, 2012)

MbS said:


> _"This video contains content that has been blocked in your country on copyright grounds."_
> 
> What am I supposed to be seeing?


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## Zenith (Jun 16, 2012)

Call me childish but I'll quote something coming from a Naruto character


> "Maybe, just maybe, there is no purpose in life. But if you linger a while longer in this world, you might discover something of value in it, like how you discovered that flower. Or, how I discovered you one fateful night"



basically suicide is not the answer,even when life's miserable you can hope to change it and work towards a better future


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## Kafuka de Vil (Jun 16, 2012)

From the article you posted said:
			
		

> There'll be reprisals from other kids in the school and he still has to go to school somewhere





> *reprisals*



 **


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## Coteaz (Jun 16, 2012)

Love how this thread is bashing the victim instead of the homophobic bullies. Stay classy NF.


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## martryn (Jun 16, 2012)

> "This video contains content that has been blocked in your country on copyright grounds."



Wow, you live in a shit country.


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## Kafuka de Vil (Jun 16, 2012)

Lt Iceman said:


> Because it's easier for the vitcim to react to the shitty situation than the bully change



Don’t take the bait: Coteaz is a renowned troll. Just look at that godly Putin set.





......

That and, Coteaz and other weeping hearts, because nobody has voiced a strong disapproval of ‘the bullies’ does not mean they’re actions are approved of or even over looked. 



martryn said:


> Wow, you live in a shit country.



This is probably the first – and probably  only – time I’ll agree with you on anything.


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## Rima (Jun 16, 2012)

This is sad. He should have waited until college to come out of the closet.


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## Neo Arcadia (Jun 16, 2012)

What a fool.

He shouldn't have killed himself, _he should have killed some of the bullies._ 

With subtlety and planning of course so he wouldn't end up in jail, but it would still be "obvious" enough to show the other bullies what's going to happen if they keep it up.


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## Shinigami Perv (Jun 16, 2012)

Nice to see the victim being bashed by the suicide morality brigade on NF 

Important to remember that this kid was tormented to the point where he thought suicide was the only option. Sure he won't be openly bullied like this when he grows up, but society won't fully accept him. The hostility of these bullies toward gays will just manifest as passive aggressive behavior, discrimination, and anti-gay legislation in adults.


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## Maerala (Jun 16, 2012)

Rima said:


> This is sad. He should have waited until college to come out of the closet.



Alternatively, parents could just teach children tolerance so this doesn't happen, that way people don't have to live in secret and fear. Besides, kids will brand someone as gay and pick on them for it whether it's true or not, just based on their own assumptions. I was bullied for being gay long before I came out.

The lack of empathy in this thread is troubling. If he lived in Texas, it's unlikely he had much support beyond his mom, and not everyone can brush off being threatened with being shot or set on fire. It has to suck going to school expecting that to happen any second.


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## Sablés (Jun 16, 2012)

Why don't we all refrain from speaking ill of the dead.


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## Darklyre (Jun 16, 2012)

ZeroX5 said:


> Why don't we all refrain from speaking ill of the dead.



But that's the safest time to speak ill of them!

Also, while I'm not at all sympathetic to this kid for an heroing (grow some fucking skin and _get over it_), I also wouldn't have a problem if those bullies got expelled/jailed for assault/shot in the kneecaps for idiocy.


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## Poison (Jun 16, 2012)

I'm sad for him, because he lived in Texas.


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## Skywalker (Jun 16, 2012)

The cruelty gay kids get is ridiculous, how many times has this type of thing happened?


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## Mider T (Jun 16, 2012)

And the Texas comments get old really quick, fact of the matter is this could've happened anywhere.  As much as we joke about Texas, we all know it's not as backwards as we'd like to believe.


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## OmniOmega (Jun 16, 2012)

He should've came out of the closet in like College.


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## MasterSitsu (Jun 16, 2012)

Eh so what

Public education is shit,but he  should of just delta with it like the rest of us.

While I hate bullies this is just pain pathetic on his part considering he had plenty of options.


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## White (Jun 16, 2012)

Seriously people, the kid was fucking 16. He was being bullied and pushed into the dirt for two whole years in one of the most backwards places in the world. Don't judge him for commiting suicide. Theres only so much a person can take before they crack


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## MasterSitsu (Jun 16, 2012)

You have never seen a third world country have you.

It's unfair to say I cant judge him when I have seen people in worse situations them him


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 16, 2012)

Seph said:


> He was clearly self-centered and didn't give a damn about how miserable his family would be.


...and what about his suffering? The death threats made on him? The harassment? Everything that builded up to him?


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## Gin (Jun 16, 2012)

Yeah, it's a shame.   But kids get bullied, it's something most people have to deal with at some point or another.


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## steveht93 (Jun 16, 2012)

I feel sorry for the kid. His letter was so kind I was really touched. Never the less he is a quitter. he should have fought harder. I know it's easier said than done but anything is better than suicide.


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## 王志鍵 (Jun 16, 2012)

Sad. He should've kicked their asses instead, but he probably would be suspended too because public school sucks.


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## MasterSitsu (Jun 16, 2012)

being suspended is like a free vacation.


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## Mider T (Jun 16, 2012)

Meredian Sky said:


> Seriously people, the kid was fucking 16. He was being bullied and pushed into the dirt for two whole years in one of the most backwards places in the world. Don't judge him for commiting suicide. Theres only so much a person can take before they crack



So he was the only person that ever went through that huh?  And that's the worst experience in the world?

He's pussied out, and now his loved ones have to live with his choice.


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## Gaawa-chan (Jun 16, 2012)

Neo Arcadia said:


> _he should have killed some of the bullies._



This was my first thought.  If you're gonna go out, you might as well take some worthless sacks of shit with you and make the world a better place.


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## Brox (Jun 16, 2012)

Every day almost 16000 children die from starvation, he had the choice.


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## Kazeshini (Jun 16, 2012)

Could have happened anywhere, but Texas does suck.


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## Kafuka de Vil (Jun 16, 2012)

Gaawa-chan said:


> This was my first thought.  If you're gonna go out, you might as well take some worthless sacks of shit with you and make the world a better place.



He’s already hurt his own family: sure, why not some others too?

I presume you might wanna play ‘the parents must be real shitty’ card here right about now. Truth is: most kids and teenagers are bastards. It’s a phase. You can have perfectly normal and decent parents who actively encourage their children to be decent members of society, but the overwhelming desire to be accepted as part of a clich? drives a kid to trip the queer over. Spurn the outsiders: be accepted.

Ultimately they grow up and become contributing members to society: while the really rotten ones end up in Jail, live on social security or dead. And you’d go along with notion of having these teens killed because you want to, in your mind, make the world  a better place.

If he had done something like that then he really would have been a coward.

Stay classy NF.


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## Gaawa-chan (Jun 16, 2012)

MbS said:


> He’s already hurt his own family: sure, why not some others too?



Indeed.  If his love for his family wasn't great enough to keep him from killing himself, what would other families matter?




> I presume you might wanna play ‘the parents must be real shitty’ card here right about now.



No.




> but the overwhelming desire to be accepted as part of a clich? drives a kid to trip the queer over.



Or rip the queer's hair out.  Or beat him within an inch of his life.  Or molest or rape him.  Make him afraid to go to school. Make him afraid to step out of his house.

"THEY JUST WANTED TO BE ACCEPTED!" is amongst the WORST arguments for treating other people like shit that I've ever heard.  And you won't see it earning any sympathy points from me.  Fuck them.  THEY are the weak ones if they're so desperate for social status that they'd treat people like shit for it, and it can NEVER be justified and that mentality NEVER truly goes away in those who have it.




> It’s a phase.



Hahahaha... you've never worked in Human Resources, have you?  Yeah, most of those fuckers don't change, and you can always tell which ones aren't going to.




> And you’d go along with notion of having these teens killed because you want to, in your mind, make the world  a better place.



I wouldn't.  But I'd understand if he had and I think it's surprising that he didn't.  Guess he was too nice.  Me?  I'd have killed them first.  Fuck justifications; *they wouldn't treat any other person like that ever again.*






Brox said:


> Every day almost 16000 children die from starvation, he had the choice.



Now there's more food to go around. 

...

That was awful.  I apologize. Guess I'm in a foul mood today. 

That argument doesn't really hold weight.  People's lives should be their own to keep or throw away as they see fit.  The fact that most people don't choose how they die is irrelevant.


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## Buskuv (Jun 16, 2012)

Mider T said:


> And the Texas comments get old really quick, fact of the matter is this could've happened anywhere.  As much as we joke about Texas, we all know it's not as backwards as we'd like to believe.



Of course it doesn't fit caricature.

It's still a shit hole.


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## Synn (Jun 16, 2012)

martryn said:


> Suicide?  Hard to feel sorry for him since he took the easy way out.  Life might have been hard, but it would have gotten better if only he could have hung on for a few more years.  I don't have a lot of respect for people who commit suicide because life's too hard.



I agree       .


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## Black Superman (Jun 16, 2012)

I don't feel anything.


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## Ennoea (Jun 16, 2012)

I know a few gay kids, most of them were beaten in to Hospital but they made it. However being told you'd be set on fire is some serious fucking shit, you can't expect every 16 year old kid to be that strong that they can take that kind of abuse for years. People go to dark places and do dumb shit, like here. 

But still man, if you're gonna kill yourself anyway, face the fucker who's making your life shit even if he does shoot you.


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## Roman (Jun 16, 2012)

Shinigami Perv said:


> I hope those little shithead kids are happy they drove him to suicide. To me they are little better than murderers. It really is time for something to be done about this on a federal level.



Sadly, I have my doubts that the Christianity-motivated congress would try to do anything that would help homosexuals so they can play on equal grounds as heterosexuals throughout their lives. First off, Congress vetoes almost everything that Democrats would propose, regardless of principle. Secondly, they tend to be pro-lifers, so homosexual relationships don't fit well with their views on how sacred marriage is and that it should be between a man and a woman for the purpose of reproduction. Giving homosexuals equality and defending their rights would go against their own set principles.



martryn said:


> Suicide?  Hard to feel sorry for him since he took the easy way out.  Life might have been hard, but it would have gotten better if only he could have hung on for a few more years.  I don't have a lot of respect for people who commit suicide because life's too hard.



While I don't believe suicide is ever the answer as it will only cause your friends and family to feel sad (on which I agree with you), I'm still disappointed with how so many people blame the victim for his suffering. You're all making it out as if the boy brought on all the suffering onto himself. Are you all really so heartless? He wanted to be open about his sexuality and that's already plenty of reason to respect and honor him, yet people blame him for picking the easy route and causing sadness to his family like it was his fault he was suffering. 

When you're as young as 16, you don't tend to have the steel skin that adults do, not to mention some people of older age groups can still be more emotional than others. Receiving death threats, bullied constantly because you're trying to be honest and truthful about who you are, I don't think that kind of abuse would be easy for anyone to tolerate and you'd have expected him to build an iron hide and just deal with it, or even worse hide his very being to save public face? This is no different than blaming a rape victim for dressing too skimpy in a poor neighbourhood. Perhaps worse considering sexuality isn't something that can be dumbed down to a simple choice.


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## Synn (Jun 16, 2012)

Freedan said:


> You're all making it out as if the boy brought on all the suffering onto himself. Are you all really so heartless? He wanted to be open about his sexuality and that's already plenty of reason to respect and honor him, yet people blame him for picking the easy route and causing sadness to his family like it was his fault he was suffering.



While it is true that he didn't bring all the suffering onto himself, he still had a choice (like he chose to let everyone know about his sexuality) and yet he chose the easy way out. There is nothing respectful about that...

I've been bullied for the same reasons in high school, but I never considered giving my life up for a moment of weakness. Sure it was tough, but some people go through far worse and still make it out alive, with their heads held high.


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## Mider T (Jun 16, 2012)

The fuck did you neg that post for Espionage?  If you're going to be stupid at least give a reason.



Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Of course it doesn't fit caricature.
> 
> It's still a shit hole.



Agreed but the excuse of "lol Texas" isn't a reason.  This could've occured in Houston or Amarillo, most members here wouldn't know the difference but it'd have been quite shocking had it happened in Houston.


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## Kafuka de Vil (Jun 16, 2012)

Gaawa-chan said:


> Indeed.  If his love for his family wasn't great enough to keep him from killing himself, what would other families matter?



Then he?d be a worthless piece of shit, more so then these ?bullies? as he?d willingly sought to inflict pain on people, these parents, who as far as we know had nothing to do with his ?suffering?.



> No.



Oh goody, you?re smarter then I gave you credit for. Bravo.



> Or rip the queer's hair out.  Or beat him within an inch of his life.  Or molest or rape him.  Make him afraid to go to school. Make him afraid to step out of his house.
> "THEY JUST WANTED TO BE ACCEPTED!" is amongst the WORST arguments for treating other people like shit that I've ever heard.  And you won't see it earning any sympathy points from me.  Fuck them.  THEY are the weak ones if they're so desperate for social status that they'd treat people like shit for it, and it can NEVER be justified and that mentality NEVER truly goes away in those who have it.



They are weak, and cowards, that?s why they prey on others. That?s why they want to feel better at the expense of others misery: that they aren?t a total failure, etc. People treat others like shit simply for their own benefit in the wake of life. Just as much out of a lack of empathy. These ?bullies? want to feel some sort of validation?, or alternatively acceptance amongst their peers that dims their own melancholy.



> Hahahaha... you've never worked in Human Resources, have you?  Yeah, most of those fuckers don't change, and you can always tell which ones aren't going to.



Children turn from vicious little thugs into adults who learn to control these vicious little impulses because as adults we know such things will not be accepted in the real world or the workplace: If only for the benefit of not being reprimanded for them. Mind you, I am talking about every western nation excluding America, you do things differently.



> I wouldn't.  But I'd understand if he had and I think it's surprising that he didn't.  *Guess he was too nice.*



In that scenario, he?s a coward after all, but in the sense that was far better than the alternative I mentioned earlier.



> Me?  I'd have killed them first.  Fuck justifications;



Thing is: that would make you worse than them. They didn?t kill someone, not yet. You on the other hand, you deliberately set out to. But hey: fuck justification, rite?



> *they wouldn't treat any other person like that ever again.*



And you're so sure of this how?


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## Gunners (Jun 16, 2012)

To be honest I think people ask too much of 14 years old. Having half of his friends abandon him, then having a great portion of individuals being embarrassed to be associated with him would have been stressful enough. On top of that he had to deal with threats of violence. 

Most people at secondary school freak out over a bad haircut or grades. As adults we can look back on our life as children and say ''It didn't matter'' but when looking a things through the eyes of children they lack the experience in life to realise what matters and that things will get better. 

Overall the situation is unfortunate one boy lost his life and a group of idiots have to deal with the guilt of it for the rest of their lives.


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## Mintaka (Jun 16, 2012)

Rima said:


> This is sad. He should have waited until college to come out of the closet.


It's rather disgusting that this has to happen this way.

You can't even be who you are because if you do that you're going to get threatened for it day in and out.  It's not even like who he is a harmful or terrible thing, it's just not liked by bigoted asshats.


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## Gaawa-chan (Jun 16, 2012)

MbS said:


> Then he’d be a worthless piece of shit, more so then these ‘bullies’ as he’d willingly sought to inflict pain on people, these parents, who as far as we know had nothing to do with his ‘suffering’.



You seem to be under the impression that I'm talking in terms of 'right' or 'wrong.'  I'm not.




> They are weak, and cowards, that’s why they prey on others. That’s why they want to feel better at the expense of others misery: that they aren’t a total failure, etc. People treat others like shit simply for their own benefit in the wake of life. Just as much out of a lack of empathy. These ‘bullies’ want to feel some sort of validation’, or alternatively acceptance amongst their peers that dims their own melancholy.



No, really? 

What part of, "It justifies nothing and they'll get no sympathy from me; fuck them," don't you understand?




> not be accepted in the real world or the workplace: If only for the benefit of not being reprimanded for them. Mind you, I am talking about every western nation excluding America, you do things differently.



 "It's not accepted except for where it is!" :rofl




> In that scenario, he’s a coward after all, but in the sense that was far better than the alternative I mentioned earlier.



Says the guy who clearly doesn't know jack-shit about what it's like to live in constant fear and pain.  If you think that being pushed over your breaking point and acting accordingly is cowardly then YOU are the douche here.

People snap.  And these fuck-wads in his community should just be grateful he didn't snap the other way.




> Thing is: that would make you worse than them. They didn’t kill someone, not yet. You on the other hand, you deliberately set out to. But hey: fuck justification, rite?



As I said, I am not talking about right or wrong.

My great grandfather murdered his wife with an axe and then killed himself after enduring years of abuse from her.  You'd say 'he's worse than her!'  I'd say she got what was coming to her for _driving him insane._

You hit the tiger with the stick and get your face ripped off?  Well, maybe you shouldn't have hit the tiger, you fucking moron.  I won't pity someone for being an idiot.




> And you're so sure of this how?



And you question my intelligence? Dead people don't threaten to set people on fire.


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## Hatifnatten (Jun 16, 2012)

He couldn't make it out of Texas?

Weird, this seems like the only way any living human would want to take.


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## HighLevelPlayer (Jun 16, 2012)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> Yea, but he lived in texas that's lots of short term man.



Wish I could rep you.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 16, 2012)

Synn said:


> While it is true that he didn't bring all the suffering onto himself, he still had a choice (like he chose to let everyone know about his sexuality) and yet he chose the easy way out. There is nothing respectful about that...
> 
> I've been bullied for the same reasons in high school, but I never considered giving my life up for a moment of weakness. Sure it was tough, but some people go through far worse and still make it out alive, with their heads held high.


Synn, has the bullying got to the point where you're being threatened with incineration and other death threats? On top of the constant harassment?

He wanted to be open about who he was, a homosexual man. But his peers made his life a living hell even threatening to kill him. The school and church didn't help him, left him to twist in the wind until his armor kept being taken down. The only choice for him was death in the end, since if he didn't kill him self, I bet we'd see him like Matthew Shepard. He went out on his own terms instead of dying as a murder victim.


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## Doge (Jun 16, 2012)

...did you expect anything else from Texas?


Now if we turn to some parts of Africa, practical extermination of homosexuals has been ordered...


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## WT (Jun 16, 2012)

Only weaklings commit suicides.

That being said, its hard not to feel sorry for him. The bullies should be punished.


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## Ennoea (Jun 16, 2012)

The bigger issue is people saying it's just a part of growing up and that we should let it slide, seems to me that people are harbouring prejudice in helping gay kids because in their words they should stay in the closet to fit in. Bullshit.

In shit schools the smart kids should become dumb asses to fit in too then.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 16, 2012)

White Tiger said:


> Only weaklings commit suicides.
> 
> That being said, its hard not to feel sorry for him. The bullies should be punished.


Dear god White Tiger, you really have a lack of empathy here. He had no way out other than in a body bag, so he went on his own terms.


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## Kafuka de Vil (Jun 16, 2012)

Gaawa-chan said:


> You seem to be under the impression that I'm talking in terms of 'right' or 'wrong.'  I'm not.





> No, really?
> 
> What part of, "It justifies nothing and they'll get no sympathy from me; fuck them," don't you understand?



Wait, you didn?t phrase your last post like that. You said it justifies nothing: as in you're assuming absolutes. So now it basically falls down to now is? they won?t get sympathy from me?.

So your basically being subjective?

Still doesn't make it right.



> "It's not accepted except for where it is!" :rofl



You misunderstand. As an employer do you accept antagonism between your staff that effects your business, revenue, etc? Of course not.



> Says the guy who clearly doesn't know jack-shit about what it's like to live in constant fear and pain.  If you think that being pushed over your breaking point and acting accordingly is cowardly then YOU are the douche here.



You know zilch about me; you can?t make such a judgement going just off the interweb. Otherwise you wouldn?t rush to declare what I do and don?t know.



> As I said, I am not talking about right or wrong.



So it's just your fancy? Good to know.



> My great grandfather murdered his wife with an axe and then killed himself after enduring years of abuse from her.  You'd say 'he's worse than her!'  I'd say she got what was coming to her for _driving him insane._



Then your grandpas in the wrong. The option to walk away is always there, instead of allowing it to escalate. The way you phrase it: he's clearly in the wrong.



> You hit the tiger with the stick and get your face ripped off?  Well, maybe you shouldn't have hit the tiger, you fucking moron.  I won't pity someone for being an idiot.



In that scenario the kid shouldn?t have gone so open about his homosexuality at this time of his life. It?s basically a trigger for this reaction from kids. But the kid should be himself, people will cry. People should be more tolerate!

Perhaps, but this enviroment wasn't, so basically he said to hell with waiting for a better time, like say college when the homophobes won?t make it in, I want to be myself!

Really, he bears some responsibility for this. 



> And you question my intelligence? Dead people don't threaten to set people on fire.



Hey, my brother?s friend was beaten almost to death. True, he didn't die but he could have. His brothers beat the shit out of the guys who did it. Now it?s just spilled out.

Does it always end when you?re gone? What about your family? Would you be willing to put them in danger of the possibility of retribution?


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## WT (Jun 16, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Dear god White Tiger, you really have a lack of empathy here. He had no way out other than in a body bag, so he went on his own terms.



My mistake. I was wrong. 

I'm sorry I assumed gay people could be stronger but as you've correctly suggested, they're all weaklings and if and when they are called ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) and whatnot, the only thing they can do is kill themselves.


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## Buskuv (Jun 16, 2012)

Mider T said:


> Agreed but the excuse of "lol Texas" isn't a reason.  This could've occured in Houston or Amarillo, most members here wouldn't know the difference but it'd have been quite shocking had it happened in Houston.



Granted, Texas is no Alabama or Georgia.

And Houston is a pretty 'big city' in terms of social stratification, but it's still the stereotype capital of America for a reason.


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## Gaawa-chan (Jun 16, 2012)

MbS said:


> Still doesn't make it right.



*YOU* are talking about morality.  *I* am talking about something else.




> You misunderstand. As an employer do you accept antagonism between your staff that effects your business, revenue, etc? Of course not.



"Of course not," you say.  That is not the case at all.  It depends entirely on the employer and/or the nature of the business.




> You know zilch about me; you can’t make such a judgement going just off the interweb. Otherwise you wouldn’t rush to declare what I do and don’t know.



Only someone who has never been at the brink between choosing life and death would call choosing death cowardly.  It takes strength to overcome the instinctive impulse to live... strength, or an unhinged mental state, or both, and neither makes someone a 'coward.'




> Then your grandpas in the wrong. The option to walk away is



Because insane people obviously have a clear sense of right and wrong and the various options open to them. 
She unhinged him so far he killed their dog, too.  With the axe.  Even though he had a gun and was well-known to be an incredibly gentle person.




> In that scenario the kid shouldn’t have gone so open about his homosexuality at this time of his life.



That's right; it's his fault for having the integrity to be honest about himself that he spent two years living his life in abject fear and pain.




> What about your family?



Grasping at straws.


----------



## Kafuka de Vil (Jun 16, 2012)

Gaawa-chan said:


> *YOU* are talking about morality.  *I* am talking about something else.



I'm not talking so much about morality but the reprecussions. The distribution of more emotional pain is guaranteed.



> "Of course not," you say.  That is not the case at all.  It depends entirely on the employer and/or the nature of the business.



Employers do not want to a loss of revenue.

At all.



> Only someone who has never been at the brink between choosing life and death would call choosing death cowardly.  It takes strength to overcome the instinctive impulse to live... strength, or an unhinged mental state, or both, and neither makes someone a 'coward.'



You’re making generalisation about me you don’t have any prior knowledge of me to back them up.

And the instinctive impulse to live weavers constantly with mood, it’s caving in to it that shows cowardness. 



> Because insane people obviously have a clear sense of right and wrong and the various options open to them.
> She unhinged him so far he killed their dog, too.  With the axe.  Even though he had a gun and was well-known to be an incredibly gentle person.



So in all these 'years' she 'unhinged him', he never took any kind of action to prevent it or simply remove himself from it?

Then he contributed it and so he's in the wrong.



> That's right; it's his fault for having the integrity to be honest about himself that he spent two years living his life in abject fear and pain.



He is partially responsible.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 16, 2012)

people really shouldn't criticize others for committing suicide, who knows what they've been through

I've been guilty of it too to some degree, but it's really not fair and it's not right to attack and degrade the victim in these cases.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 16, 2012)

White Tiger said:


> My mistake. I was wrong.
> 
> I'm sorry I assumed gay people could be stronger but as you've correctly suggested, they're all weaklings and if and when they are called ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) and whatnot, the only thing they can do is kill themselves.


What? He had death threats. He was harassed constantly. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't kill himself, some of the bullies who were threatening him would _act_ on these threats. Do you understand that?


----------



## HighLevelPlayer (Jun 16, 2012)

Godaime Hokage said:


> Alternatively, parents could just teach children tolerance so this doesn't happen, that way people don't have to live in secret and fear. Besides, kids will brand someone as gay and pick on them for it whether it's true or not, just based on their own assumptions. I was bullied for being gay long before I came out.
> 
> The lack of empathy in this thread is troubling. If he lived in Texas, it's unlikely he had much support beyond his mom, and not everyone can brush off being threatened with being shot or set on fire. It has to suck going to school expecting that to happen any second.



You're gay? I always thought you were a woman.


----------



## αce (Jun 16, 2012)

The kid was fuckin 16.
He wasn't the fucking Aang or some 70 year old mountain monk with the wisdom of 1000 green dragons. Of course it became unbearable eventually. Especially in fucking Texas where his entire life is shunned.

Some people


----------



## Gaawa-chan (Jun 16, 2012)

MbS said:


> I'm not talking so much about morality but the reprecussions. The distribution of more emotional pain is guaranteed.



Funny.  You've been using very specific moral terms such as 'not right.'




> Employers do not want to a loss of revenue.
> 
> At all.



You imply that they will necessarily lose revenue.  This is also not the case.




> You’re making generalisation about me you don’t have any prior knowledge of me to back them up.
> 
> And the instinctive impulse to live weavers constantly with mood, it’s caving in to it that shows cowardness.



How about instead of whining about my inference, you prove me wrong?

weavers? Oh.  Wavers.  Did you just seriously imply that people commit suicide on whims?  

And lol.  Guess I'm the bravest fucker on the planet, then.





> So in all these 'years' she 'unhinged him', *he never took any kind of action* to prevent it or simply remove himself from it?
> 
> Then he contributed it and so he's in the wrong.



He did, actually.  He was going to leave.  And then she destroyed his way out.  Destroyed everything.




> He is partially responsible.



He is responsible for having integrity.  And he is responsible for the act of taking his own life.

What he is NOT responsible for is the bigotry so ingrained in our society that people can say with a straight face that he should have compromised his integrity to suit the lowest common denominator in society.  Fuck that shit.


----------



## Hwon (Jun 16, 2012)

Unless someone has actually deeply contemplated or experienced what it would be like to truly want to die rather than live another day and struggle with the choice to commit suicide they ought not talk shit about those who have lest you be considered an ignorant dick.


----------



## Kafuka de Vil (Jun 16, 2012)

Gaawa-chan said:


> Funny.  You've been using very specific moral terms such as 'not right.'



We can’t deny if this guy did as you said killed himself and his ‘bullies’ then there would be more distribution of emotional and perhaps physical pain.



> You imply that they will necessarily lose revenue.  This is also not the case.



True there are other things, I mentioned a tiny few earlier, but this is the most important. 



> How about instead of whining about my inference, you prove me wrong?
> 
> weavers? Oh.  Wavers.  Did you just seriously imply that people commit suicide on whims?
> 
> And lol.  Guess I'm the bravest fucker on the planet, then.



People have commited sucide on whims. That's why they can never focus beyond the short term.



> He did, actually.  He was going to leave.  And then she destroyed his way out.  Destroyed everything.



It took ‘years’. So yes, he unwittingly and still contributed to it.



> He is responsible for having integrity.  And he is responsible for the act of taking his own life.
> 
> What he is NOT responsible for is the bigotry so ingrained in our society that people can say with a straight face that he should have compromised his integrity to suit the lowest common denominator in society.  Fuck that shit.



Integrity?

Ho, boy.

Did you read about that cafe thread about Ukraine threatening violence on blacks? It’s a blacks decision if they want to go or not: but if anything happens then THE bear responsibility as they put themselves in harm’s way. Same with this kid.

Do you believe people have responsibility for their own wellbeing. Do you believe temporarily compromising it is bad for long term benefits such as, I dunno, being alive and having the chance for happiness?



Linkdarkside said:


> fuck you!!



You tell em'.


----------



## Nemo (Jun 16, 2012)

And yet we still have politicians passing anti-gay legislation...

Apart from making gay youth feel like there's something "wrong" with them, bullies think it's _okay_ to treat gay people like less than people, because the damn _government_ does it, too.

Land of the free...with liberty and justice for all.


----------



## Gaawa-chan (Jun 16, 2012)

MbS said:


> We can’t deny if this guy did as you said killed himself and his ‘bullies’ then there would be more distribution of emotional and perhaps physical pain.



Am I supposed to sympathize with victimizers and enablers?




> That's why they can never focus beyond the short term.



Oh, please... just more of the "I haven't been there but I'm going to assume that I know what goes through their heads" crap.




> It took ‘years’. So yes, he unwittingly and still contributed to it.



Good men in 1936 did not just up and leave.  And this sounds suspiciously like you are blaming abuse victims for letting their abusers carry on with abusing them, as if it is that simple.

It is easy to stand on the side-lines and judge; it's another thing to LIVE it, which you obviously haven't.




> Integrity?



To live and die by the principles you hold dear.

I'd like you to stand up and say that Martin Luther King Jr. was asking for it by making speeches in the racist south.  I guess he should have just kept his fucking mouth shut, huh?  Would have been safer, at any rate.  What was he thinking, "compromising his well-being?"

It is the same principle on a personal scale.  There is a reason why gay people are encouraged to come out despite the bullshit society throws at them. If you cannot respect even that about someone then you are not worth talking to.




> Did you read about that cafe thread about Ukraine threatening violence on blacks? It’s a blacks decision if they want to go or not: but if anything happens then THE bear responsibility as they put themselves in harm’s way. Same with this kid.



It's the fault of the Jews that didn't flee Europe that they were all massacred in the Holocaust, amirite? 




> Do you believe people have responsibility for their own wellbeing.



Depends on the circumstances.




> Do you believe temporarily compromising it is bad for long term benefits such as, I dunno, being alive and having the chance for happiness?



What I FEEL about how OTHER PEOPLE should treat their lives is irrelevant.  Their lives are THEIRS to do with as they please.  That is what personal autonomy entails.  Those who infringe upon that- worse still, those who infringe upon it and then bitch about the reactions they provoke- are another matter entirely.


----------



## Narcissus (Jun 16, 2012)

I never approve of suicide, but neither would I be so quick to judge this boy for it. Death threats and bullying can weigh heavily on a person, especially when they consistently occur. And you cannot compare his situation to other people because not everyone has the same strength of mind.

I commend him for trying to be himself at such a young age. Not many have that kind of courage. I only wish things had turned out differently, that he wouldn't have committed suicide and his mother wouldn't have to suffer. 

Maybe some people will finally stop downplaying the bullying of homosexuals.


----------



## Linkdarkside (Jun 16, 2012)

a lot of bullies use the gay card and use it also to non gays , i was bullied and often called gay actually a Spanish slang for it which is pato aka duck.

i was bullied because of my shyness or as i know now social anxiety.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jun 16, 2012)

Fighting back against a bully is bad, telling on them is bad, running away from them is bad.
Da fuck you do?


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## Gaawa-chan (Jun 16, 2012)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> Fighting back against a bully is bad, telling on them is bad, running away from them is bad.
> Da fuck you do?



Eat them.  Make bully pie.


----------



## Mr Bear (Jun 16, 2012)

Feel bad for him but suicide really never should be the out come of any bad situation.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jun 16, 2012)

Gaawa-chan said:


> Eat them.  Make bully pie.


[YOUTUBE]Jq994ufPX5Q[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Level7N00b (Jun 16, 2012)

Its obviously the kid's fault for not being tough enough to handle things.

/sarcasm 

Texas never changes.


----------



## Bioness (Jun 16, 2012)

Skywalker said:


> The cruelty gay kids get is ridiculous, how many times has this type of thing happened?



It is really bad, LGBT teenagers are 2-3 times more likely to commit suicide than their heterosexual peers.




martryn said:


> Suicide?  Hard to feel sorry for him since he took the easy way out.  Life might have been hard, but it would have gotten better if only he could have hung on for a few more years.  I don't have a lot of respect for people who commit suicide because life's too hard.



This is somewhat how I feel as well, I am absolutely against suicide. I also know situations like these could be prevented if schools and teachers made a bigger effort to protect their students.


----------



## Darklyre (Jun 16, 2012)

Level7N00b said:


> Its obviously the kid's fault for not being tough enough to handle things.
> 
> /sarcasm
> 
> Texas never changes.



If someone is so thin-skinned as to let taunting push them to consider suicide as the best option, then quite frankly they're not worth my sympathy.


----------



## scerpers (Jun 16, 2012)

Couldn't make it to the finals.


----------



## Level7N00b (Jun 16, 2012)

Darklyre said:


> If someone is so thin-skinned as to let taunting push them to consider suicide as the best option, then quite frankly they're not worth my sympathy.



While I don't agree with suicide, not everyone has the will to withstand continuous gay bashing discrimination and repeated threats of violence. Everyone has a breaking point, and this kid hit his. 

It doesn't do any good to call him weak.


----------



## Tsuchi (Jun 16, 2012)

Call me mean but he did take the easy way out. I dunno what he went through but I'll say this,life's too precious to throw it away because someone bullied you. My mom always said the only way to prove someone wrong and to raise above your challenges, is to hold your head high, have faith in and god and know that he'll deliver you. I may not have went through what he did but I know life can be hard and people can be close minded, but it's up to you to take their hatred, negativity and anger against you and prove them wrong, make them eat their words.

It's heartbreaking to know that he took his life and left his family behind with alot of unanswered questions but I think he could have held on and fought to the very end but he chose the easy way out. He gave up too soon and to alot of people including myself that's a pretty selfish thing to do.

But my condolences to his family and friends who miss him dearly.


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## Maerala (Jun 16, 2012)

Darklyre said:


> If someone is so thin-skinned as to let taunting push them to consider suicide as the best option, then quite frankly they're not worth my sympathy.



Death threats are not taunting, they're... death threats. It's not like they're going "Lololololo y u so gay," they're going "We're gonna shoot you and set you on fire."


----------



## Narcissus (Jun 16, 2012)

Tsuchi said:


> My mom always said the only way to prove someone wrong and to raise above your challenges, is to hold your head high, have faith in and god and know that he'll deliver you.



What your mother said doesn't apply to everyone. Not everyone believes in God (and for good reasons), and believing in some higher being to deliver you through your problems is irrational malarkey.


----------



## On and On (Jun 16, 2012)

Unsurprising. I'm sure some people are totally okay with this, actually.


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## Petes12 (Jun 16, 2012)

Tsuchi said:


> My mom always said the only way to prove someone wrong and to raise above your challenges, is to hold your head high, have faith in and god and know that he'll deliver you



now just imagine everyone telling him god hates him


----------



## Darklyre (Jun 16, 2012)

Godaime Hokage said:


> Death threats are not taunting, they're... death threats. It's not like they're going "Lololololo y u so gay," they're going "We're gonna shoot you and set you on fire."



And people go to jail for that shit if the victim would just press charges. But no, apparently suicide is a better option than pressing charges.


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## Gaawa-chan (Jun 16, 2012)

Darklyre said:


> And people go to jail for that shit if the victim would just press charges. But no, apparently suicide is a better option than pressing charges.



And I'm sure Texan authorities care so very much about a gay boy getting death threats.


----------



## Tsuchi (Jun 17, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> now just imagine everyone telling him god hates him




Alot of people out there do believe that god doesn't care about them, but they don't go off and commit suicide


----------



## TheGreatOne (Jun 17, 2012)

Man I really am tired of hearing about these stories of gay kids killing themselves. Yes its sad that he commited suicide but does he know how many gay kids around the world are bullied on a daily basis?  They are not trying to kill themsleves though, because just like how most people see there is a light at the end of the rainbow. You may be getting bullied now but you won't be later. And damn I feel for his family. Thats really sad for them. I feel sadder for them than I do the kid.


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## drache (Jun 17, 2012)

as someone that has battle suicidal tendencies my heart goes out to him and his family

it's past time mental illness stop being treated like some dirty secret and while we're on it, it's past time for stupid asshats to grow up and stop bullying people because they are different or weird or whatever


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jun 17, 2012)

Texas is so hard on gays? I live in Texas and I know gays and even some black gays. They get by pretty much without much incident. Suicide isn't the easy way out, but maybe if people stopped blaming a state and blamed the schools and communities that allow this kind of shit to happen. I went to Catholic school and even then I knew if we teased someone for being gay you could get put out of school. Stop treating your little dick hole of a bully like an angel and this kind of shit will stop happening.


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## drache (Jun 17, 2012)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Texas is so hard on gays? I live in Texas and I know gays and even some black gays. They get by pretty much without much incident. Suicide isn't the easy way out, but maybe if people stopped blaming a state and blamed the schools and communities that allow this kind of shit to happen. I went to Catholic school and even then I knew if we teased someone for being gay you could get put out of school. Stop treating your little dick hole of a bully like an angel and this kind of shit will stop happening.



ah but blaming the state is more fun 

in all seriousness texas rightly or wrongly has an image problem and events like this only reinforce that image


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jun 17, 2012)

drache said:


> ah but blaming the state is more fun :karu
> 
> in all seriousness texas rightly or wrongly has an image problem and events like this only reinforce that image



El Paso is more Mexico than Texas  

The thing is that every place has images. And only one is truly as bad as they say...Florida.


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## drache (Jun 17, 2012)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> El Paso is more Mexico than Texas
> 
> The thing is that every place has images. And only one is truly as bad as they say...Florida.



FL is not that bad and Texas has alot of image problems as a hick backwards state where they tacitly allow things like this


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## Fruits Basket Fan (Jun 17, 2012)

I cannot believe that the earlier posts were actually demonizing the victim all while hardly being hard on the bullies ......


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## Karsh (Jun 17, 2012)

^I'm flabbergasted as well. Suicide IS a selfish action considering the few people that actually DID love him for who he was, but people need to realize some can't handle the amount of abuse they receive from their peers. I can understand why someone would feel so sad and feel like life is hopeless when faced with people who hate and abuse you for something so utterly stupid. He would have been right if he figured that persecution would follow him for the rest of his life. Hopefully the future holds more understanding and comradership amongst all.



> I hope those little shithead kids are happy they drove him to suicide. To me they are little better than murderers.



I would hope so, but I get the feeling that these wastes of space have no remorse because a ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) is going to hell for liking boys as their mommies and daddies have taught them


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## Gaawa-chan (Jun 17, 2012)

Fruits Basket Fan said:


> I cannot believe that the earlier posts were actually demonizing the victim all while hardly being hard on the bullies ......



I can.  One of my sisters would be right with them.


----------



## Mider T (Jun 17, 2012)

Fruits Basket Fan said:


> I cannot believe that the earlier posts were actually demonizing the victim all while hardly being hard on the bullies ......



Neither were in the right, it's just easier place all the blame on the bullies.


----------



## Karsh (Jun 17, 2012)

Mider T said:


> Neither were in the right, it's just easier place all the blame on the bullies.



I hope you aren't saying the bullies aren't to blame at all here

We all have to deal with assholes in our lives and gotta deal, a lot of people have been bullied, some worse than others. A lot of people are persecuted in life for how they are and survive. Some deal better than others, we're simply not all the same.

But that does not excuse in any way whatsoever those people who think they're justified in treating others like subhumans. They're really worthless human beings and should be ashamed of themselves.


----------



## Undead (Jun 17, 2012)

martryn said:


> Suicide?  Hard to feel sorry for him since he took the easy way out.  Life might have been hard, but it would have gotten better if only he could have hung on for a few more years.  I don't have a lot of respect for people who commit suicide because life's too hard.


Pretty much this. I feel sorry for what he went through, but suicide isn't the way you deal with this.


----------



## Nemo (Jun 17, 2012)

Mider T said:


> Neither were in the right, it's just easier place all the blame on the bullies.



What the fuck.


----------



## Lina Inverse (Jun 17, 2012)

Sad story is sad

also, threatened to set him on fire? Shoot him?

the fuck?


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 17, 2012)

Sarutobi Asuma said:


> Pretty much this. I feel sorry for what he went through, but suicide isn't the way you deal with this.


It was the only way given all the harassment and death threats he faced and what little support he had.


Lina Inverse said:


> Sad story is sad
> 
> also, threatened to set him on fire? Shoot him?
> 
> the fuck?


Messed up, I know.


----------



## dummy plug (Jun 17, 2012)

man, i would never tell a gay person that id burn him for being gay or stuff like that...being gay is better than being a psychopath at a tender young age, wonder what kind of person those punks will be when they grow up


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## Karsh (Jun 17, 2012)

dummy plug said:


> man, i would never tell a gay person that id burn him for being gay or stuff like that...being gay is better than being a psychopath at a tender young age, wonder what kind of person those punks will be when they grow up



I'm guessing your average civilian with their messed up past and repressed hate speeches and headcanons

the latest example was our most recent thread about psychologically messed up guy who killed his bully from 50 years back and this ex-bully sounded like some sort of god on earth according to his daughter (bias or no, and whatever we can say about people waxing lyrical about the dead as opposed to the living)

some grow out of it, some don't meh


----------



## Roman (Jun 17, 2012)

Synn said:


> While it is true that he didn't bring all the suffering onto himself, he still had a choice (like he chose to let everyone know about his sexuality) and yet he chose the easy way out. There is nothing respectful about that...
> 
> I've been bullied for the same reasons in high school, but I never considered giving my life up for a moment of weakness. Sure it was tough, but some people go through far worse and still make it out alive, with their heads held high.



> Implying he should've been more responsible about revealing the truth about himself
> Implying it's more convenient to be something that he isn't.

There's a huge difference between simply being bullied and being threatened to get shot at or burned. With the little support and the fact that lawful assistance would be doubtful, I think it would've been much harder for anyone to handle death threats than simple bullying. And before you tell me I have no idea what it feels like to be bullied, know that I have been when I was in elementary school (Italy AND America) and junior high (Saudi) simply because I was a foreigner, which is relatively normal. I'm imagining it would be ten times worse for someone who revealed himself to be openly homosexual.


----------



## butcher50 (Jun 17, 2012)

Bioness said:


> This is somewhat how I feel as well, I am absolutely against suicide. I also know situations like these could be prevented if schools and teachers made a bigger effort to protect their students.



most teachers are cowardly pussies though, that can impose their laws and rules only upon those who listen (the bullied victims) but as soon as the kids show intimidating aura of resistance (the bullies) they back down like chickens.

no balls at all.


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## Coteaz (Jun 17, 2012)

Let me sum up all of the self-righteous posts in this thread:

"I survived, despite being a completely different person in a different situation, therefore I am better than this kid. I'll call him weak to make myself feel good."

The complete lack of empathy coupled with a prideful, spiteful ignorance displayed in this thread is absolutely sickening. You have no idea what the kid went through unless you have personally experienced suicidal feelings. Let me give you a hint - suicide is not "easy". It is the culmination of (possibly) years of pain and anguish that cannot be diminished by comparing it to others who "have it worse."


----------



## Coteaz (Jun 17, 2012)

Thanks for proving my point, chump.


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## Casyle (Jun 17, 2012)

I'm torn... if he suffered from severe depression then I can understand. That's some nasty shit that's really hard to understand if you haven't experienced it. It'll screw with your mind and encourage you to think and do things you've never other-wise do. 

If not then I can't really feel sorry for 'em. I keep hearing about these suicides where-in they apparently aren't suffering from bad depression and where they only endured threats, yet they kill themselves.

I was physically assaulted by bullies FOUR times in MIDDLE SCHOOL ALONE! Including a punch that required I get 40 something stitches in my mouth. I suffered mentally and physically in school but kept on trucking, so it's hard for me to continue to feel sorry for some of these kids.


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## Coteaz (Jun 17, 2012)

Lt Iceman said:


> >childish ad hominem
> 
> >lack of knowledge on the person on the other side
> 
> you fail,very hard and strong


You were nearly beaten to death as a child? That's rough, and I feel for you. However, different people are different. The fact that you survived does not make this kid "weak" for choosing death.


----------



## Xyloxi (Jun 17, 2012)

The problem here is the system intact which allowed this to happen, nobody should be killing themselves at such a young age for something so arbitrary as their sexual orientation. I don't know enough about wherever he lived in Texas to comment, but what I am aware of is that there's a world of difference between the south in rural and urban areas. 

I'm biased here, but the fact is some kids caused another kid to kill himself through bullying and tormenting him to an extent he just couldn't take any more. Everybody has been bullied at some point, but I highly doubt that people who have bashed the kid on here have gone through the same things as he has.


----------



## Deamiel (Jun 17, 2012)

I fail to see why most people seem to put all the blame on this boy while letting the trash of the world go about without repercussion.

Alas, calling a boy that suffered through years of anguish and sorrow weak and pathetic seems to be far easier than accepting others and placing blame on the bigots of society.

Lastly, I fail to see why we should use the suffering of others who prevail only to live a shit existence as a reason not to end one's life.  The boy had a choice: to go on living in a world that hates him, or take control of his own existence and end the suffering he saw no end to.

I have no qualms with suicide.  I certainly, however, hold issue in the widespread acceptance of pure ignorance and hatred of others that seems to be so widespread in this world.


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## Coteaz (Jun 17, 2012)

Lt Iceman said:


> but what I was trying to say is that he should have a had a little more desire to live,life is beautiful,it is good,at times shitty(most of it) but you can live with the hope to change things


Depression kills a person's desire to live and negates any "hope" they may have. I know because I've gone through it many times. When you couple this with physical and psychological threats/bullying, it isn't hard to see how it can lead to suicide. 

You're making very rational points. However, depression and suicide don't have to be rational.


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## Banhammer (Jun 17, 2012)

Suicide is not an "easy way out", suicide is a misguided cry for help.

Calling a boy weak is a pathetic fallacy made by sociopaths who need to feel better by themselves by putting a dead child down


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## Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki (Jun 17, 2012)

Lt Iceman said:


> but what I was trying to say is that he should have a had a little more desire to live,life is beautiful,it is good,at times shitty(most of it) but you can live with the hope to change things



But you can say this because you KNOW this to be true for you.

It is true for me too.

However... Imagine that you did not know that this was true.


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## Banhammer (Jun 17, 2012)

Depression is an illness, and the only people who are invulnerable or oblivious to mental illnesses are those without a mind to begin with

You can't pretend to have broken arm, and you sure as hell can't just will a hemorrage away, despite what modern health industrials want to defend, so how about we give all serious medical problems an asshole free serious medical problem treatment?


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## Banhammer (Jun 17, 2012)




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## butcher50 (Jun 17, 2012)

Lt Iceman said:


> you need the balls and the charisma in life to keep on going,if you don't have them then you need to do something to get them



you are demanding too much from the average gay teen.

and balls and charisma is something the teachers/watchers should have demonstrated to him but they were too busy being lazy and cowardly chickens who are only capable of smacking his head over with their rules and laws of idiotic pacifism to be a easy little victim while doing absolutely nothing about the bullies.

*this is how these schools are operating: *don't fight back ! be a little passive victim, don't bother us teachers it's not like we can do anything about those who don't listen to our pacifism lectures and if you fight back we will PUNISH you !


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## Kafuka de Vil (Jun 17, 2012)

Gaawa-chan said:


> Am I supposed to sympathize with victimizers and enablers?



Your sympathy is irrelevant. I'm  pointing out the obvious.



> Good men in 1936 did not just up and leave.  And this sounds suspiciously like you are blaming abuse victims for letting their abusers carry on with abusing them, as if it is that simple.
> 
> It is easy to stand on the side-lines and judge; it's another thing to LIVE it, which you obviously haven't.



I’ve had friends in volatile and abusive and potentially life threatening relationships. One was even married. No, they didn’t leave after the first or second times, but by the third, and rarely the fourth they get the message. And if they’ve been foolish enough to try and resume an obviously failed relationship, the first transgression the second time round it’s the final incentive to get up and leave.

Thus it is something that is not allowed to prolong and distributed through ‘years’ allowing it to fester.



> To live and die by the principles you hold dear.
> 
> I'd like you to stand up and say that Martin Luther King Jr. was asking for it by making speeches in the racist south.  I guess he should have just kept his fucking mouth shut, huh?  Would have been safer, at any rate.  What was he thinking, "compromising his well-being?"
> 
> It is the same principle on a personal scale.  There is a reason why gay people are encouraged to come out despite the bullshit society throws at them. If you cannot respect even that about someone then you are not worth talking to.



Not the same thing.

Here’s a better example you should have implemented: Rosa Parks. She didn’t exactly ‘compromise’: yet she faced the consequences of said not compromising head on and because of this she came through it and there was something at the end of it.

The kid didn’t, he had no integrity. The article doesn’t even mention if he tried helping himself beside prolonging his problems by giving these ‘bullies what they wanted: a reaction.



> It's the fault of the Jews that didn't flee Europe that they were all massacred in the Holocaust, amirite?



Yet again, not the same thing. -.-

The Holocaust was a transgression made by one nation invading other sovereign nations. In the scenario with the gay teen and the one I mentioned, the hostility is stationary and you take yourself to it you’re accountable for putting yourself at risk.

Kids will be targeted for the most mundane things. So of course you’re risking your own personal safety and mental health by willingly exposing yourself in a known hostile environment. Compromising _temporarily_ is something a good majority of us have to do at some point in our lives. We can’t expect everyone to be tolerant, so we should try and change _that_ outlook, but until then you can’t demand it to happen over night and make hypothetical scenarios about it. Otherwise you end up with a siuation like this kid found himself.



> What I FEEL about how OTHER PEOPLE should treat their lives is irrelevant.  Their lives are THEIRS to do with as they please.  That is what personal autonomy entails.  Those who infringe upon that- worse still, those who infringe upon it and then bitch about the reactions they provoke- are another matter entirely.



What about how his mother's feelings? His family, friends? So they now have to cope with this emotional pain while he’s left it on them and forfeited any kind of future happiness.


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## butcher50 (Jun 17, 2012)

MbS said:


> What about how his mother's feelings? His family, friends? So they now have to cope with this emotional pain while he?s left it on them and forfeited any kind of future happiness.



didn't he already hurt them by his non-conventional orientation ?


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## Kafuka de Vil (Jun 17, 2012)

butcher50 said:


> didn't he already hurt them by his non-conventional orientation ?



The article doesn?t mention to any objection made by the parents on this.


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## EJ (Jun 17, 2012)

One thing I want to know is how is this case different than any other suicide?


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## Banhammer (Jun 17, 2012)

MbS with standard bullshit trolling


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## EJ (Jun 17, 2012)

I don't even know why people take MbS seriously.


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## Banhammer (Jun 17, 2012)

Mad, bad and Sad


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## butcher50 (Jun 17, 2012)

teachers need more leeway in liquidating bullies or atleast give more leeway to the bully targets at fighting back.


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## Banhammer (Jun 17, 2012)

Like that kid who tazered his bully and then the principal expelled him all while saying "It's his fault for wearing a scarf!"


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## Blue (Jun 17, 2012)

Suicide MUST be regarded as a weak, thoughtless and shameful thing to do, because justifying it in any fashion could lead to others on the brink making the wrong decision, regardless of what ails them.

Absolutely mental illness is real illness. A physically healthy person losing the will to live is the most fundamental break with normal function a human body can ever experience. That doesn't mean we should go around patting shoulders and saying "It's okay Johnny; everybody has wanted to die at some point."

Fuck that. No, Johnny, suicide is a weak, selfish thing to do, go get some fucking help if you can't deal with it yourself.


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## EJ (Jun 17, 2012)

Actually the guy who helped kill Julius Caesar was so angry, he would rather kill himself than let someone else kill him.


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## Blue (Jun 17, 2012)

Flow said:


> Actually the guy who helped kill Julius Caesar was so angry, he would rather kill himself than let someone else kill him.



That's not losing the will to live; that's accepting the inevitable.


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## EJ (Jun 17, 2012)

and what about Samurai or Predators


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## Banhammer (Jun 17, 2012)

Yeah Jhonny, walk your mental illness off




Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> Suicide MUST be regarded as a weak, thoughtless and shameful thing to do, because justifying it in any fashion could lead to others on the brink making the wrong decision, regardless of what ails them.



Yeah. They should know that if they kill themselves, bad things will happen to them


wait, what?


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## Banhammer (Jun 17, 2012)

Bullies everywhere should know that it's okay to validate their bashing because their victim was a weak spineless ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) anyway, so no one will miss that prick

Bash away my flying monkeys


Hey, here's a kid whose spiral of guilt due to societal inducing depressing has led him to a point where the only way he can realitically see his torture ending is by ending his life

Do you know what that guy needs?

More societal shaming. That will definitely heal him of one trully terrible moment in an otherwise wonderful life



Sometimes it's like I've taken crazy pills and the world really is filled with these demented people, good Lord...


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## Mael (Jun 17, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Yeah. They should know that if they kill themselves, bad things will happen to them
> 
> 
> wait, what?



Methinks what he meant was that if suicide isn't condemned like this (not excluding actual empathy/sympathy for the victim), then it might not spurn other bullied kids into seeking alternative means of coping.  The kid went through hell and felt there was no respite.  I should ask, where was the person to tell him there was respite?  Where was the thought of a support group or some form of therapy/outreach in both the kid and parents' head?


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## butcher50 (Jun 17, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Yeah Jhonny, walk your mental illness off



it's *Kunoichi no Kiri *what did you expect ?


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## lazer (Jun 17, 2012)

Though sad, it's not suprising, since teens are more prone to suicide.


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## Banhammer (Jun 17, 2012)

That is a moronic statement

Clearly someone who is taking their own lives is not concern with the consequences of his own actions.
Or better, it is, but he just wants them to stop at any cost.

And the one thing you shouldn't do to someone who is guilt tripping himself into a grave, is giving him more of a guilt trip
Figure he survives and now wants to kill himself for wanting to kill himself!

baby level logic

Can't be the only one who sees this am I?


----------



## butcher50 (Jun 17, 2012)

Mael said:


> Methinks what he meant was that if suicide isn't condemned like this (not excluding actual empathy/sympathy for the victim), then it might not spurn other bullied kids into seeking alternative means of coping.  The kid went through hell and felt there was no respite.  I should ask, where was the person to tell him there was respite?  Where was the thought of a support group or some form of therapy/outreach in both the kid and parents' head?



targets of bullies should be authorized to use maximum physical force.

the best therapy there is.


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## Banhammer (Jun 17, 2012)

Condemning depression inducing bullies as to avoid both the creation of victims, and also the general envyroment that allows the victimization on thousands of children in every school in the country


Oooooooor


Taking a piss on a dead kid's corpse and validate everyone who doesn't kill themselves through him?

Tough choice.
Well that kid was a weak little ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) anyway



> His mother said he had displayed all of his school awards in his room and had left a note.



Correction
An award wining weak little ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)


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## Karsh (Jun 17, 2012)

Mael said:


> Methinks what he meant was that if suicide isn't condemned like this (not excluding actual empathy/sympathy for the victim), then it might not spurn other bullied kids into seeking alternative means of coping.  The kid went through hell and felt there was no respite.  I should ask, where was the person to tell him there was respite?  Where was the thought of a support group or some form of therapy/outreach in both the kid and parents' head?



I'm all for living and all a that, at least when you have the opportunity for your personal version of a good life, but I'll be the devil's advocate here.

Do you think ANY of these possible support systems are helpful?
I have the feeling that they possibly alienate the person even further from feeling normal and maybe even more alone.
Also if we want to fix this bully problem, if you can't fight back because perhaps you're alone against many, the next step wold be to get official help but is that help (parents, school, etc) effective? Wouldn't that be tantamount to being the "dreaded snitch"?

According to this he lost a lot of friends because of coming out, it sounds like he didn't have much support outside maybe his mother and well... I dunno about you but when I was a teenager, I wanted my parents nowhere near my social and personal life.

I'm asking because I wouldn't know, and my memory of having heard situations regarding this seems to answer "no"


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## Roman (Jun 17, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> Suicide MUST be regarded as a weak, thoughtless and shameful thing to do, because justifying it in any fashion could lead to others on the brink making the wrong decision, regardless of what ails them.
> 
> Absolutely mental illness is real illness. A physically healthy person losing the will to live is the most fundamental break with normal function a human body can ever experience. That doesn't mean we should go around patting shoulders and saying "It's okay Johnny; everybody has wanted to die at some point."
> 
> Fuck that. No, Johnny, suicide is a weak, selfish thing to do, go get some fucking help if you can't deal with it yourself.



So no matter how much he was bullied, it's his fault for suffering and breaking down? I'll say it again: you can't expect a 16 year old to have the tough skin of steel and cope with death threats involving getting shot or being burned. If not everyone can deal with it, how is it in any way their fault for the fact that they were being bullied? Are you seriously suggesting kids like them should expect to be bullied and that it's ok for bullies to pick on the weak? I seriously hope not.


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## Banhammer (Jun 17, 2012)

From the video report in the article said:
			
		

> the district tried everything it could to stop the bullying



Correction: Award winning weak little ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) who did try to get help


Boy I love slapping fools in the mouth


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## Mael (Jun 17, 2012)

^To stop the bullying, but I was questioning more some outreach like "It Gets Better."


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## Banhammer (Jun 17, 2012)

God the only thing that could make it worse for me was if my parents knew about the deep shit and drama I was involved in in High School

I would be ashamed to show up at home, the last sanctuary a kid has to feel normal


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## Kue (Jun 17, 2012)

I guess I have the licence to verbally harass and give death threats to children because if they decide to kill themselves, it is all their faults for being so weak.

You just gotta love the logic in this thread.


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## Banhammer (Jun 17, 2012)

And I should use my bulk and size to go around assaulting people because if they break their bones is their fault they don't go to the gym everyday and shoot up protein shakes straight into their veins


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## Kue (Jun 17, 2012)

You know, because pretending to be a sociopath on an internet forum is so trendy.


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## Banhammer (Jun 17, 2012)

Yeah, me and my Glee set are gonna break some fools


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## drache (Jun 17, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> Suicide MUST be regarded as a weak, thoughtless and shameful thing to do, because justifying it in any fashion could lead to others on the brink making the wrong decision, regardless of what ails them.
> 
> Absolutely mental illness is real illness. A physically healthy person losing the will to live is the most fundamental break with normal function a human body can ever experience. That doesn't mean we should go around patting shoulders and saying "It's okay Johnny; everybody has wanted to die at some point."
> 
> Fuck that. No, Johnny, suicide is a weak, selfish thing to do, go get some fucking help if you can't deal with it yourself.



I really hope if someone ever comes to you for help you communicate better then that and if not I hope no one does.


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## Karsh (Jun 17, 2012)

Mael said:


> ^To stop the bullying, but I was questioning more some outreach like "It Gets Better."



Well that's what I was trying to ask.

From what I remember these things don't necessarily work and it sounds like this kid, like so many others with different backgrounds and reasons for being targets, were fairly abandoned, or at least felt that way.

That's a tough thing to be living through and it's difficult to compare yourself to anyone else then because well... it's their life, not somebody else's.

Just because somebody else tells you how to act, how to be, how to think, what to expect, I've certainly not believed it all because I am feeling and thinking what I am at THAT moment and that is my reality at that time and it can seem like everything other people are saying is just noise.


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## Kunoichiwa (Jun 17, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> Suicide MUST be regarded as a weak, thoughtless and shameful thing to do, because justifying it in any fashion could lead to others on the brink making the wrong decision, regardless of what ails them.
> 
> Absolutely mental illness is real illness. A physically healthy person losing the will to live is the most fundamental break with normal function a human body can ever experience. That doesn't mean we should go around patting shoulders and saying "It's okay Johnny; everybody has wanted to die at some point."
> 
> Fuck that. No, Johnny, suicide is a weak, selfish thing to do, go get some fucking help if you can't deal with it yourself.



An undeserved sense of guilt is a symptom of depression, so the last thing a kid who is considering or even planning on taking their life is everybody blaming them for being suicidal. People who are suicidal often think the world would be better off without them. That's how distorted suicidal people's view of themselves is. There is often something wrong with the brain chemistry of depressed people, so blaming them for their distorted view is like blaming a schizophrenic for hallucinating. They are sick and need help, not condemnation.

What depressed people need is somebody to tell them that depression is a mental illness and there are ways to get better.


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## butcher50 (Jun 17, 2012)

the kid should have taken down the bullies with him to the afterlife.

but either way i don't condemn him for ending his own life.


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## Doge (Jun 17, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> Suicide MUST be regarded as a weak, thoughtless and shameful thing to do, because justifying it in any fashion could lead to others on the brink making the wrong decision, regardless of what ails them.
> 
> Absolutely mental illness is real illness. A physically healthy person losing the will to live is the most fundamental break with normal function a human body can ever experience. That doesn't mean we should go around patting shoulders and saying "It's okay Johnny; everybody has wanted to die at some point."
> 
> Fuck that. No, Johnny, suicide is a weak, selfish thing to do, go get some fucking help if you can't deal with it yourself.




-Nothing HAS to be regarded as anything.  Your view is not the only one in the world.

-Some suicidal people consider suicide as a way to help other people, like they don't want to be a hazard anymore.  I have certainly felt that way, and being called weak and selfish will not help anyone.  If anything, they'd want to escape the selfishness and weakness.  Because someone who is not living cannot be a hinderence.

-There is no "wrong" decision.  No one has the right to control whether you live or die.  Everyone dies, it's completely natural.  

-I personally would never trust you to help a suicidal person.  Judging by your post, you'd treat them horribly and end up making them more prone to suicide.


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## Toroxus (Jun 17, 2012)

The boy thought he was worthless and hated because that's all anyone had been telling him since. And to be fair, that's pretty much all he'd ever be told in Texas.


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## Rain (Jun 17, 2012)

wow, where is this world going... Take your life because of something stupid like that. Maybe he wasnt even truly gay. He was teen. 

Weakling...


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## Shinigami Perv (Jun 17, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Suicide is not an "easy way out", suicide is a misguided cry for help.
> 
> Calling a boy weak is a pathetic fallacy made by sociopaths who need to feel better by themselves by putting a dead child down



Does make me wonder about the crowd here on Cafe. I think most normal people at least empathize with the victim and are wise enough to withhold comments that bash the victim. 

With rape victims, any word said against the victims is immediately jumped on as "blaming the victim." Rightly so. But suicide victims are treated with relatively no empathy. People assume that suicide is a choice between being brave "like me, because I chose life" or being a pussy who took the easy way out. 

Suicide isn't the easy choice, and it isn't really a choice most times. It's driven by depression and in this kid's case, constant torment. He committed suicide, sure, yet he was driven to it. The ones who drove him to it are being represented as less culpable even though their actions appear to be the sole reason he contemplated suicide in the first place.



Flow said:


> and what about Samurai or Predators



Must agree. I've never understood this myth that people who commit suicide are weak. It probably takes a lot of willpower to end one's own life, our natural fear of death is a powerful deterrent.


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## the box (Jun 17, 2012)

Took the cowards way out? No sympathy call it cold but I think suicide over something like this is a foolish move. I'm not going to pander and say its alll good he was bullied and gay. I could care less there are people watching there parents be burned alive in Syria but do they pussy out? Nope they grab arms and kick ass. This kid like all others who "can't take it" are puss cakes


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## Kue (Jun 17, 2012)

It's okay box, we know you are part of the sociopath club too.


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## the box (Jun 17, 2012)

Sorry far lefto man but I take suicide seriously my father had nothing was bullied his entire life, lost every one in his house to a murderer and still grew up a set of balls and made a family of his own. I don't feel bad for suicide over bullies I don't. It's cowardly god rest the boys soul but I do not pity. He made a choice to live or die so why are you saddened by what he chose? Grow up this is the real world


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## Doge (Jun 17, 2012)

There is no such thing as foolish when no one makes it out alive.


Nobody's going to care who you are in the next few centuries.  We all view the past extinct generations as figures of history or statistics.  1400's and personality?  No, just history books.  Anyone born before 1890?  Irrelevant and only written in history books.


Living doesn't matter.  We are all pages in a book for future generations who simply don't care that we were alive.


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## Banhammer (Jun 17, 2012)

there's a surprising amount of people in this thread who feel like they deserve some sort of cookie for not having killed themselves


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## Kue (Jun 17, 2012)

I'm pretty sure that the lack of understanding there is in the general population about mental illness and the victimization of the victim are correlated.

Not everyone is the same mentally, and it is obvious that any suicide victim either genetically had some sort of mental illness (and it could be something as simple as depression) or developped it over the years, and weren't capable of seeing the situation rationally.

People posting in this thread talking about their own situations do not seem to understand that.


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## Banhammer (Jun 17, 2012)

It's the coward's way out.

The one where you blame a poor kid for taking his own life rather than admitting your part of a cancerous faction on modern society


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## Banhammer (Jun 17, 2012)

Look at me, I'm so edgy taking a piss on a kid that died because of an impossible situation
I sure am a bad boy that doesn't play by the rules


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## Roman (Jun 17, 2012)

Shinigami Perv said:


> Does make me wonder about the crowd here on Cafe. I think most normal people at least empathize with the victim and are wise enough to withhold comments that bash the victim.
> 
> With rape victims, any word said against the victims is immediately jumped on as "blaming the victim." Rightly so. But suicide victims are treated with relatively no empathy. People assume that suicide is a choice between being brave "like me, because I chose life" or being a pussy who took the easy way out.
> 
> Suicide isn't the easy choice, and it isn't really a choice most times. It's driven by depression and in this kid's case, constant torment. He committed suicide, sure, yet he was driven to it. The ones who drove him to it are being represented as less culpable even though their actions appear to be the sole reason he contemplated suicide in the first place.



Part of me thinks it comes from centuries of conditioning on humanity's psyche that suicide is rewarded with eternal damnation in hell for most communities who grew up in a religious environment, particularly Abrahamic religions. The funny thing is that in Eastern societies, it was regarded as a way to restore your honor.

There are also the irreligious people who understand life is harsh and fight through it, and then see those people who give up half-way as weak because they couldn't handle the toughness of life. What they don't realize is that without knowing the person directly, it's impossible to even fathom what a child is going through, especially when there's as massive an age difference as 10 years or so. 

Some people here who commented on the boy being weak are in their early to mid-20's when the boy had been going through torment, bullying and social isolation for 2 years ever since he was 14: a really impressionable and emotional age if you consider the fact that most boys are going through puberty then and are only beginning to discover the strength of their emotions and aren't as "adept" at controlling them as most adults would be. 

Even if they were, blaming them for suicide because they were being constantly abused is ridiculously stupid. As I've said before and someone else hinted at, it's like blaming a rape victim for being raped because she was dressed "skimpily" in a bad neighborhood (which isn't to say she was outright dressed like a slut either). It's stupid and immoral to suggest and imply that bullies are there and people should be less responsible about dealing with them and more aware of how to not get on their bad side.


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## Banhammer (Jun 17, 2012)

in b4 we start bashing the poor gramar in his suicide note


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## martryn (Jun 17, 2012)

Suicide in some cases is completely acceptable.  Bob Welch of Fleetwood Mac, for example.  Guy had surgery in an attempt to fix some spinal problems he had, and the doctors said that there was no chance of him ever getting better.  He killed himself so his wife wouldn't be shackled to an invalid for the rest of her life.  Not to mention he was in his late 60's and had already lived a long and fulfilling life as a member of one of the greatest rock bands of all time.

But really, can we argue how stupid it is to commit suicide before life really even begins for you?  Sure, high school can be some important years, but what Wiki page have you ever read that talked in length about a man's life in high school?  No one accomplishes anything important that young.  You have to blame the kid for doing something stupid.  If he were intelligent, he'd have talked to his parents.  He'd have tried home schooling or maybe a private school.  His parents could have moved to a new school district.  Problems have solutions.  

The kid had friends, supposedly.  It's not like he was alone and isolated during this period.  

Even worse, he had a younger brother that found his body.  How fucked up is that going to make that kid?  Talk about selfish and stupid.  He didn't think it through enough to prevent his little brother from permanently scarring himself.  Kid will need therapy for years.

And yeah, sometimes I blame rape victims.  When they dress like sluts and act like a tease all night long, flirting and touching guys, while drinking heavily, and then they wake up to find out that they slept with someone but they don't remember it, so it's rape?  Yeah, fuck that.  Entirely different from a guy forcing himself on a sober woman telling him no and stop.  Rape statistics are heavily skewed.


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## Kue (Jun 17, 2012)

martryn said:


> Suicide in some cases is completely acceptable.  Bob Welch of Fleetwood Mac, for example.  Guy had surgery in an attempt to fix some spinal problems he had, and the doctors said that there was no chance of him ever getting better.  He killed himself so his wife wouldn't be shackled to an invalid for the rest of her life.  Not to mention he was in his late 60's and had already lived a long and fulfilling life as a member of one of the greatest rock bands of all time.
> 
> But really, can we argue how stupid it is to commit suicide before life really even begins for you?  Sure, high school can be some important years, but what Wiki page have you ever read that talked in length about a man's life in high school?  No one accomplishes anything important that young.  You have to blame the kid for doing something stupid.  If he were intelligent, he'd have talked to his parents.  He'd have tried home schooling or maybe a private school.  His parents could have moved to a new school district.  Problems have solutions.
> 
> ...



Dude, have you read the thread?


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## Blue (Jun 17, 2012)

Kunoichiwa said:


> An undeserved sense of guilt is a symptom of depression, so the last thing a kid who is considering or even planning on taking their life is everybody blaming them for being suicidal.


So they feel guilty for feeling guilty? That's ridiculous.



> What depressed people need is somebody to tell them that depression is a mental illness and there are ways to get better.


Yes. 
What they do not need is a bunch of idiots saying "depression is really bad man, suicide isn't weak. T__T"

I'm going to go ahead and say that's true, for the sake of argument. 

But why the fuck would you ever say it if you're not arguing with incredibly dense people and trying to make a point?

Don't ever say it. 

Depression should be supported and treated.

Suicide should be ostracized in the most extreme fashion so nobody can ever rationally think anyone is okay with them dying.

Because we're not fucking okay with them dying, and suicide is _morally indefensible_ for a teenager. 

Now shut the fuck up and stop trying to rationalize it, in case someone out there is actually listening.


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## Banhammer (Jun 17, 2012)

Buhahaha, if at first your abomination does not succeed, then double down on it


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## Elim Rawne (Jun 17, 2012)

I see the sociopaths ITT are implicitly condoning school shootings now.
"They bully you ? Don't be weak, HIT THEM BACK !!!"


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## Friday (Jun 17, 2012)

MbS said:


> I can?t help but feel that these people who commit suicide can?t look beyond the short term and take only their own feelings into account.



This. /end thread.

You know why its the worst to commit suicide? Because you're giving in and giving up. If someone threatens to shoot you, and you commit suicide because of it, you let them win. If they shoot you, then you win, because at least you wouldn't look weak.


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## Banhammer (Jun 17, 2012)

Gooooooo Caltech!


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 17, 2012)

...I had no idea a administrator like Kunoichi no Kiri could be so sociopathic.


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## Banhammer (Jun 17, 2012)

You don't get it

she's not saying people who kill themselves are horrible human beings who probably deserved to die anyway in the first place


She's just saying they should do it where no one will find them. In the closet.


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## Elim Rawne (Jun 17, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> ...I had no idea a administrator like Kunoichi no Kiri could be so sociopathic.



The guy with the loli sig turned out to be wrong in the head ?

No fucking way


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## EJ (Jun 17, 2012)

martryn said:


> Suicide in some cases is completely acceptable.  Bob Welch of Fleetwood Mac, for example.  Guy had surgery in an attempt to fix some spinal problems he had, and the doctors said that there was no chance of him ever getting better.  He killed himself so his wife wouldn't be shackled to an invalid for the rest of her life.  Not to mention he was in his late 60's and had already lived a long and fulfilling life as a member of one of the greatest rock bands of all time.
> 
> But really, can we argue how stupid it is to commit suicide before life really even begins for you?  Sure, high school can be some important years, but what Wiki page have you ever read that talked in length about a man's life in high school?  No one accomplishes anything important that young.  You have to blame the kid for doing something stupid.  If he were intelligent, he'd have talked to his parents.  He'd have tried home schooling or maybe a private school.  His parents could have moved to a new school district.  Problems have solutions.
> 
> ...




Do you not understand you aren't in this kid's head and you will never understand what he was going through before he killed himself. 

For all you know, he probably accepted the fact he would die eventually or something.


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## Banhammer (Jun 17, 2012)

Oh, it's a guy


Well you know what should be extreemly ostracized in society to the point of suicide?

Pedophiles.


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## MasterSitsu (Jun 17, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> ...I had no idea a administrator like Kunoichi no Kiri could be so sociopathic.


So now people who don't sympathize with him are sociopathic.

He had plenty of options and he was 16 he should be acting like a man or at least close to one.

These whiny teenagers these day don't know how good they actually have it.


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## Shinigami Perv (Jun 17, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> ...I had no idea a administrator like Kunoichi no Kiri could be so sociopathic.



I think she's saying that anything less than a total condemnation of suicide opens the door to rationalizing suicide, thus creating more suicide. 

The problem with suicide is that it is sometimes rational depending on the situation. If a person has no friends/family, and does not want to live any longer, is it irrational to commit suicide? I can't think of an argument against it at that point. Or if the person is suffering from severe anguish, what if his pain is far greater than the pain the loved one would feel losing him? 

To me, it is hard to reconcile the value of a human life with a person who does not want to live it.


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## EJ (Jun 17, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> So they feel guilty for feeling guilty? That's ridiculous.
> 
> 
> Yes.
> ...



Telling them it's a weak thing only fucking makes them feel even more pathetic and that they SHOULD kill themselves.


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## Blue (Jun 17, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> You don't get it
> 
> she's not saying people who kill themselves are horrible human beings who probably deserved to die anyway in the first place
> 
> ...


I know you're not actually a complete moron, you're just trolling me, but I'm saying you shouldn't try justifying it, because it's the exact same fucking thing as justifying murder in the case of insanity.

"Murder's okay, as long as you're feeling bad. Bullies picked on you? Go ahead and kill them dear, it's hard being depressed."

Same thing, opposite end of the reaction spectrum.
"They are terrible human beings, so they deserve to die."
"I am a terrible human being, so I deserve to die."

Neither is acceptable and both should be proscribed in the strongest possible terms.


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## Banhammer (Jun 17, 2012)

You know what being a pussy is really like?

Being a pussy happens when you try to feel better about yourself by bashing a dead child rather than having the balls to criticize the larger society that drove him to it


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## Blue (Jun 17, 2012)

Flow said:


> Telling them it's a weak thing only fucking makes them feel even more pathetic and that they SHOULD kill themselves.



How the fuck do you figure?



Banhammer said:


> You know what being a pussy is really like?
> 
> Being a pussy happens when you try to feel better about yourself by bashing a dead child rather than having the balls to criticize the larger society that drove him to it



Oh my god you fucking pandering tart, nobody is arguing that bullying is bad and should be eliminated with all due force. But that does not make it okay to tell kids that suicide's okay because society is terrible.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 17, 2012)

MasterSitsu said:


> So now people who don't sympathize with him are sociopathic.
> 
> He had plenty of options and he was 16 he should be acting like a man or at least close to one.


You don't seem to quite get his situation. And yes, it is sociopathic since you havent' gone through what this kid has gone through. Death threats, constant harassment, practical torture for _TWO FUCKING YEARS_ since he had the courage to come out and be himself. Instead of being rewarded, he got harassed time after time after time again. 

Did you conveniently ignore the threats he got? Shot, burned to death, etc?

Most people here who say he should 'man up' are probably bullies, or were bullies in real life so they don't want to feel their conscience nailing at the back of their minds.


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## Blue (Jun 17, 2012)

> Most people here who say he should 'man up' are probably bullies, or were bullies in real life so they don't want to feel their conscience nailing at the back of their minds.


I'm not saying he should "man up". Depression is a terrible thing, and you can't just snap out of it, even if your life is great and nobody is bothering you.

But justifying suicide? That's fucking retarded.


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## butcher50 (Jun 17, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> ...I had no idea a administrator like Kunoichi no Kiri could be so sociopathic.



HAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHA..............you just noticed that anomaly ? 

KNK is a lot of things.


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## Banhammer (Jun 17, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> I know you're not actually a complete moron, you're just trolling me, but I'm saying you shouldn't try justifying it, because it's the exact same fucking thing as justifying murder in the case of insanity.
> 
> "Murder's okay, as long as you're feeling bad. Bullies picked on you? Go ahead and kill them dear, it's hard being depressed."



Except insanity is a legal defense





We weigh decisions vs people who are mentally capable of making them
Be it when someone goes insane by society inducing into them and kills themselves, or others or both.

You know, in the real world. You should come visit sometime.


> Same thing, opposite end of the reaction spectrum.
> "They are terrible human beings, so they deserve to die."
> "I am a terrible human being, so I deserve to die."
> 
> Neither is acceptable and both should be proscribed in the strongest possible terms.



The same way people with AIDS should be burned at the stake, so other people won't be encouraged to have them 

Love me sum logic


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## Banhammer (Jun 17, 2012)

We shame rapists and pedos, and thus, no one gets raped  

Or wear sets fit for a p*d*p****


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 17, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> I'm not saying he should "man up". Depression is a terrible thing, and you can't just snap out of it, even if your life is great and nobody is bothering you.
> 
> But justifying suicide? That's fucking retarded.


The kid really had no other way out, Kunoichi no Kiri. His only support was his mother, and even that wasn't enough. Look, getting violent death threats and constant harassment for two years, just because you decided to be who you are? Do you know how _wrong_ that sounds? Instead of blaming the bullies and saying 'there should be a law to prevent this from happening ever again', the victim gets blamed for taking the 'easy way out'.

DOn't you see how messed up that is?


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## butcher50 (Jun 17, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> The kid really had no other way out, Kunoichi no Kiri. His only support was his mother, and even that wasn't enough. Look, getting violent death threats and constant harassment for two years, just because you decided to be who you are? Do you know how _wrong_ that sounds? Instead of blaming the bullies and saying 'there should be a law to prevent this from happening ever again', the victim gets blamed for taking the 'easy way out'.
> 
> DOn't you see how messed up that is?



don't waste your time, KNK has no empathy muscle.


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## Blue (Jun 17, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Except insanity is a legal defense


It is a defense, not a justification. Nobody in the history of man has ever said or passed a law saying "it's okay to kill if you're nuts."
It is not fucking okay, and you're going to a cell either way. If you're judged insane, you get padded bars and psychologists to keep you company.



> We weigh decisions vs people who are mentally capable of making them
> Be it when someone goes insane by society inducing into them and kills themselves, or others or both.
> 
> You know, in the real world. You should come visit sometime.


We weigh their decisions after they make them. BEFORE they make their decisions, we make it very clear what the correct decision is. If, in contravention of all logic, law, and common sense, they make the wrong decision, we're forced to consider if they weren't mentally capable of making that decision.

We DO NOT say, "nah, it's okay, he was bullied. That's why he killed that person/killed himself. No problem here."



> The same way people with AIDS should be burned at the stake, so other people won't be encouraged to have them


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## Harard (Jun 17, 2012)

Coteaz said:


> Love how this thread is bashing the victim instead of the homophobic bullies. Stay classy NF.



What the bullies did was flat out wrong, no argument here, but there's no need to hurt your family by committing suicide either.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 17, 2012)

Harard said:


> What the bullies did were wrong, but there's no need to hurt your family by committing suicide either.


Even if there was no other solution? Its not this cut and dry. Think about this, you go through what, two, three years of constant harassment. Your only support won't move you out of the area, help you get help, etc. Then you start getting death threats, violent ones. 

The bullies should get the most punishment, while the victim is blameless since there was no other recourse.


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## Blue (Jun 17, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> The kid really had no other way out, Kunoichi no Kiri. His only support was his mother, and even that wasn't enough. Look, getting violent death threats and constant harassment for two years, just because you decided to be who you are? Do you know how _wrong_ that sounds? Instead of blaming the bullies and saying 'there should be a law to prevent this from happening ever again', the victim gets blamed for taking the 'easy way out'.
> 
> DOn't you see how messed up that is?



There should be a law to prevent this ever happening again. I haven't said anything about how fucking wrong receiving death threats and harassment is because I would have thought that's really fucking obvious, but there you have it. It's really fucking wrong.

So's justifying suicide. This kid killed a human being. That it's himself is immaterial. His mother now has no son. Could he have saved himself? We'll never know. But there are kids out there who can. And acting like this kid is a martyred saint might push them in the wrong direction.

Doesn't that make sense to you?


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 17, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> There should be a law to prevent this ever happening again. I haven't said anything about how fucking wrong receiving death threats and harassment is because I would have thought that's really fucking obvious, but there you have it. It's really fucking wrong.
> 
> So's justifying suicide. This kid killed a human being. That it's himself is immaterial. His mother now has no son. Could he have saved himself? We'll never know. But there are kids out there who can. And acting like this kid is a martyred saint might push them in the wrong direction.
> 
> Doesn't that make sense to you?


KNK, sometimes it is justified. The mother could have at least tried to move him out of the area instead of letting him to stew. But she prevented that from happening, perhaps the only way that could have saved himself.


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## Blue (Jun 17, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> KNK, sometimes it is justified.


How is it justified? How can you say that? 

What ends justified this death?


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## MasterSitsu (Jun 17, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> You don't seem to quite get his situation. And yes, it is sociopathic since you havent' gone through what this kid has gone through. Death threats, constant harassment, practical torture for _TWO FUCKING YEARS_ since he had the courage to come out and be himself. Instead of being rewarded, he got harassed time after time after time again.



EHHHH he could of moved on in his life  to a new school or internet school preferably. I've seen kids in the day getting  harassed and they made more sane choices.


SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Did you conveniently ignore the threats he got? Shot, burned to death, etc?



Don't get your panties in a bunch. threats like that are never carried out,  just like at George Zimmerman is he dead yet?



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Most people here who say he should 'man up' are probably bullies, or were bullies in real life so they don't want to feel their conscience nailing at the back of their minds.



No one is siding with the bullies here bub in fact its quite the opposite these kids should face more severe consequences for there actions unlike this bullshit slap on the wrist.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 17, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> How is it justified? How can you say that?
> 
> What ends justified this death?


When there are no other options, KnK. Think about it, the only option that could have saved him, moving from the area was blocked. The police and schools weren't helping. Everything just kept piling and piling on. 

Put yourself in that situation, KnK, before saying 'oh its not justified'.



MasterSitsu said:


> EHHHH he could of moved on in his life  to a new school or internet school preferably. I've seen kids in the day getting  harassed and they made more sane choices.


Constant harassment, barely any support. Death threats, etc.



> Don't get your panties in a bunch. threats like that are never carried out,  just like at George Zimmerman is he dead yet?


'Threats like that are never carried out'? Off the top of my head, I can think of a bully (a girl) who killed a rival for her lover's affections and bragged about it after (Deadly Women). So yes, they are carried out. Death threats are a very real threat.




> No one is siding with the bullies here bub in fact its quite the opposite these kids should face more severe consequences for there actions unlike this bullshit slap on the wrist.


Except you act like Bullies when you said the victim here should have just man up instead of actually putting yourselves in HIS shoes.


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## Sarry (Jun 17, 2012)

Poor Kid

But correct me if I am not, aren't there supposed to be a hotline for these specific cases?
Especially in schools. 

I know there are active offices and hotlines  in colleges and universities.


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## Blue (Jun 17, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> When there are no other options, KnK. Think about it, the only option that could have saved him, moving from the area was blocked. The police and schools weren't helping. Everything just kept piling and piling on.
> 
> Put yourself in that situation, KnK, before saying 'oh its not justified'.



What.
It's a matter of mental illness. A person of sound mind, put in that same situation, would have dealt with it rationally by avoiding the harassment, keeping a low profile, and notifying authority figures as necessary about the problem. There isn't a school in the country that wouldn't take death threats dead seriously.

Yes, he was mentally ill, and no, that isn't something you can magically fix on your own by having a warm cup of tea and telling yourself it's okay.

But there are degrees to mental illness, from mild depression to anxiety disorder to major depression to schizophrenia, and at some point along that road he first thought of suicide as an option. 

And at some point, maybe one he passed, maybe one he hadn't yet passed, suicide is the only option. We can't simply assume that any person who is depressed and bullied no longer sees any rational options, and so we must encourage them to see rational options to the best of our ability. Which means not ever, ever, saying "suicide was this kid's only option."
It may have been, but for others still alive, it is not.

And no, it was not justified. There was no justification. Mental illness is, by some definitions, irrationality, and an irrational decision is unjustified as a matter of course.


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## Banhammer (Jun 17, 2012)

Le sigh

I know I am never going to convince all the Ayn Rand cockgobblers that it is possible for an award wining student to end his own life without being a little pussy, but there are a lot of people who are genuinely uneducated enough in the matter to form an opinion
So here it goes

In  this world, the story has happened a thousand times

Once upon a time there was a boy, a perfectly normal boy who has laughed at every joke and cried at every scraped knee, and is quite like all of the other boys and girls in the world, looking at a cool and cruel planet and wanting to be a part of it
One day he finds out he's not normal. He knows no one is normal, there is no such thing as normal, the best you can get at, is "traditional" but alas, he deviates from average, but he is the only person he has ever been, so with no curve to compare himself to, he decides to venture the world as himself.
And the world decides he does not know this boy, and cannot abide by it, for the world does not know if this boy is dangerous
The world thinks that if he does not ostracize the boy enough, more strange beings like him with be acceptable. And it is good, for the world  thinks it is good and therefore, if this new strange boy is not a part of, he must logically not be  good.
And they are strong, so if this boy is not a part of this world, he must not be so.
So drurnk and filled on goodness, the world roars and shows the strange boy that he is not good, that he is weak and weak little strangeness will be crushed under the world's feet
The boy does not understand. Does the whole world think this way? Is he a prey?
The sea would have him drowned, but what do the mountains think?
"we don't know you strange boy, but we know the sea hates you, so we would have you do what you will. Do so far away from us, so it does not crush us too against it's waves. 
Why would we guard you, when it's every stone's dream to one day be part of the sea?"
And thus do the mountains shun the boy
He asks the clouds "The sea want to kill me, would you please help me?" to which the clouds say "Poor strange little boy, how can we? We are high and we are mighty, it's true, but from here you're all the same to us. We will take the sea in time, but we cannot help you, for the wind must blow on shore and wave the same"
"please, help me, says the boy"
"We are sorry, but here comes the wind, to take us to other boys"
The boy is alone.
That is how the boy gets sick
He can't play, for whatever he does, the sea of hate is there to strike  him
Whatever he works in, studies or creates, is poisoned, for he makes it and surrenders it a world filled with the sea of hate that poisons it and makes the hate part of the thing he made himself
He has to live in fear of every unfulfilled promise, with every assault bringing him closer to another day where they may just make up their minds.
There are people who love him, but that only makes it worse, because they are just another thing he has left to loose, and the only power they have left, is that to further shatter himself

He lives, breathes and eats this poison every day. He wakes in dread, cries himself to sleep and only the darkness, and every moment of his life, one million and five hundred thousand minutes of soul biting hell gnashing at his heart and with every one of them a promise
It will get worse
Ahead of you there are years more of this. Every second we will pump more and more and more and more poison into you. All that you've gone through is but a mere introduction of what you have yet to see
It won't get better, because after two years, you know it's not them. It's you
You will go into college, and they will know, it wasn't a whole bunch of people who were wrong, it's you and it will always be you
Do you even know what "better" is any more?

He grows sick and poisoned. His brain can't absorb serotonin and his fear deprives him of sleep. He looses weight, has no energy and no matter what he can't bring himself to care, because his heart just hurts too damn much

There is this phsical stone on his chest that stops him from getting up
Yes, mooving on with his life is the right thing to do, but he cannot possibly care enough about what the right thing in order to do it. 
Or the wrong thing too by that matter.
There's not a single thing worth enjoying, it's either filled with poison, or he himself is too filled up to truly apreciate it
It's dark
Every thing is dark
And the dark is so much inside of him, that it will wreck all the good too

So one day he decides he will do the one thing left he can do. The one thing left that he still has control over. What he has of power
He doesn't have to be their victim any more. It's the last shred of true genuine power he has on his life
And he jumps



Saying someone kills themselves because they are afraid is nothing short of a barbarity of the highest proportions
Ignorant baphoons who should be locked up away from our children
Beware of the self delusional overly symplistic moron who would trick you, lie to you, and have you believe, for the sake of his own insecurities that it is more brave for you to take piss on the grave of the strange little boy, than it is to do so on the sea

Because the day you do, you will have taken the poison into yourself, and surely and inevitably, you will be bound to become like them


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## Blue (Jun 17, 2012)

Welp Banhammer

You clearly haven't understood a thing I've said in this thread, but it's equally clear this is something you feel rather strongly about.

So I'll leave you to your flaming.


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## Banhammer (Jun 17, 2012)

> It is a defense, not a justification. Nobody in the history of man has ever said or passed a law saying "it's okay to kill if you're nuts."



You're the only red headed step child here who is acting like people are cheering on the kid's decision
No what we are saying is that only moronic darwin award candidates should blame him for doing it the same way you should blame a person with severe pneumonia for his lungs shutting down


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## butcher50 (Jun 17, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Banhammer tells the story


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## martryn (Jun 17, 2012)

> Dude, have you read the thread?



No.  There's ten fucking pages, and two more since I last posted a few hours ago.  Most of it seems to be bullshit, so I thought I'd throw my bullshit in with it.



> For all you know, he probably accepted the fact he would die eventually or something.



So he just sped the process up?  Sounds like a fucking pussy.  He's like my wife in a zombie apocalypse.  She's all like, I'm just gonna kill myself, and I'm like, you're a fucking coward.


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## Banhammer (Jun 17, 2012)

ITT: martyn wonders where is his cookie for not having killed himself


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## butcher50 (Jun 17, 2012)

martryn said:


> So he just sped the process up?  Sounds like a fucking pussy.  He's like my wife in a zombie apocalypse.  She's all like, I'm just gonna kill myself, and I'm like, you're a fucking coward.



and as the zombies are ripping you to pieces for dinner, your last words shall be:

_"GOOD I HOPE YOU CHOKE ON ME YA BASTARDS !"_


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## T4R0K (Jun 17, 2012)

MbS said:


> I can?t help but feel that these people who commit suicide can?t look beyond the short term and take only their own feelings into account.



Exactly ! That's the reason I said "No ! I'll spit on your grave and hold a grudge on your soul if you kill yourself ! No reason for me to 'forgive' you this !" to a friend that wanted to kill himself because of some stupid girl who broke up with him ! He was asking us, his friends and his relatives to "forgive" him !

I can understand pain, sadness, desperation, hardships ! I'm having them too ! I see the world in black sometimes too ! BUT I know as long as I'm healthy, there's a way forward, and I'm willing to take it until fate decides it's time to put me to rest !


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## ImperatorMortis (Jun 17, 2012)

I feel really bad for him, but he does have the right to end his life if he sees fit. 

And honestly I can't blame him for the decision.


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## Elim Rawne (Jun 17, 2012)

I wonder how the self righteous straight white males would handle if they were treated like that kid. Would they "pussy out" or would they fight the powa and shoot up the school ?


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## Kue (Jun 17, 2012)

martryn said:


> No.  There's ten fucking pages, and two more since I last posted a few hours ago.  Most of it seems to be bullshit, so I thought I'd throw my bullshit in with it.



We are all full of shit in the end then.  Let's celebrate.


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## Judas (Jun 17, 2012)

I pity the kid and his family for being subjected to a tragedy such as this. What kind of mindset were the authority figures of the school in? Makes me wonder if the kid ever brought it up to them, and if so, did they just brush it off as a harsh tease? The same thing for the students at the school. Did anybody actually do anything in his defense? 

From where I'm sitting, the bullies aren't the only ones to blame.


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## drache (Jun 17, 2012)

Falkirion said:


> wow, where is this world going... Take your life because of something stupid like that. Maybe he wasnt even truly gay. He was teen.
> 
> Weakling...



and here is an example of everything that is wrong with the perception of mental health in america


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## butcher50 (Jun 17, 2012)

Judas said:


> I pity the kid and his family for being subjected to a tragedy such as this. What kind of mindset were the authority figures of the school in? Makes me wonder if the kid ever brought it up to them, and if so, did they just brush it off as a harsh tease? *The same thing for the students at the school. Did anybody actually do anything in his defense? *
> 
> From where I'm sitting, the bullies aren't the only ones to blame.



i wonder about this one aswell.

did he had any friends at all ? anyone that could have stood their ground with him ? or he was completely isolated and no one stood up for his plight ?


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## perman07 (Jun 17, 2012)

What I always find weird is how much contempt a lot of people have for *weakness*. Weakness is not the same as being mean, as being sadistic, selfish, an asshole, violent and the long list of adjectives that basically consist of hurting other people.

Let's say a person who committed suicide had a physical sickness that made them manically depressed (I don't know the possible names for such a condition, but I know they exist) to such an extent that they find life horrible all the time. Would that then be an acceptable reason for killing oneself? What if you were literally being tortured consistently? Or if you were living with a condition that granted you constant, intense pain and virtually no living funtionality with no hope for improvement?

The way I see it, unless you are the most fanatical Bible thumper, you will accept that there are extreme instances like these where suicide is acceptable.

This case may not fall under that. However, where do you draw the line before you can have sympathy and not call the person a pussy? The way I see it, there are relative differences abound here, some may have it more difficult, some may be weaker, but even if a person is a little bit too weak and that they could have pulled through, should you have contempt for them for not being strong enough?

I really dislike people who can only have sympathy with strong people. Cliche macho males in particular often sneer and spit when they call someone weak, like it's the worst thing to be, and it's not.


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## Banhammer (Jun 17, 2012)

saying someone is better off dead is not acceptable in any way


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## perman07 (Jun 17, 2012)

^Directed at me? Cause I said nothing which that makes sense as a reply to.


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## drache (Jun 17, 2012)

perman07 said:


> What I always find weird is how much contempt a lot of people have for *weakness*. Weakness is not the same as being mean, as being sadistic, selfish, an asshole, violent and the long list of adjectives that basically consist of hurting other people.
> 
> Let's say a person who committed suicide had a physical sickness that made them manically depressed (I don't know the possible names for such a condition, but I know they exist) to such an extent that they find life horrible all the time. Would that then be an acceptable reason for killing oneself? What if you were literally being tortured consistently? Or if you were living with a condition that granted you constant, intense pain and virtually no living funtionality with no hope for improvement?
> 
> ...



true perhaps but that part of the culture is unlikely to change regardless though it's not about being weak or strong mental illness is an illness. And one that warps your thinking till you're not thinking as you should.

It has nothing to do with how strong you are.


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## perman07 (Jun 17, 2012)

drache said:


> true perhaps but that part of the culture is unlikely to change regardless though it's not about being weak or strong mental illness is an illness. And one that warps your thinking till you're not thinking as you should.
> 
> It has nothing to do with how strong you are.


Well, you have a binary way of looking at it.

Psychology has in later years geared more and more towards scaled thinking instead of binary thinking, meaning you can have different degrees of different traits, deficiencies and thought patterns, and that you can't always just call someone mentally ill or not (although clear-cut cases still exist of course).

Point being that it's not always clear-cut whether you should hold a person fully accountable for their mistakes. I prefer to acknowledge that I don't know how it's like to be in another persons shoes and would rather judge a person too little than a person too many.


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## drache (Jun 17, 2012)

perman07 said:


> Well, you have a binary way of looking at it.
> 
> Psychology has in later years geared more and more towards scaled thinking instead of binary thinking, meaning you can have different degrees of different traits, deficiencies and thought patterns, and that you can't always just call someone mentally ill or not (although clear-cut cases still exist of course).
> 
> Point being that it's not always clear-cut whether you should hold a person fully accountable for their mistakes. I prefer to acknowledge that I don't know how it's like to be in another persons shoes and would rather judge a person too little than a person too many.



I view depression and suicidal tendencies like most major disorders in a rather binary fashion. True you can 'fight' but it's not that simple and not that clear cut and frankly while the more modern nuanced verison of psychology is better the fact at the level of suicidal tendencies you are mentally ill.


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## perman07 (Jun 17, 2012)

Well, I guess we mostly agree then..


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## izzyisozaki (Jun 17, 2012)

what courage to end your life but not live it


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## EJ (Jun 17, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> How the fuck do you figure?



That was speaking in a general term, but trust me I would know this shit. If you're constantly told that you're a coward for killing yourself, and that you aren't shit and no one will feel empathy that may even MOTIVATE someone to kill themselves. 


I remind you, I'm not speaking in general.


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## hammer (Jun 17, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> A story


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## Gaawa-chan (Jun 17, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> Suicide MUST be regarded as a weak, thoughtless and shameful thing to do, because justifying it in any fashion could lead to others on the brink making the wrong decision, regardless of what ails them.



Absolutely ridiculous.  Condemning alcohol and drugs and prostitution doesn't do shit to prevent people from partaking of them.  And if someone wants to die, they WILL try to die, regardless of the stigma behind suicide or not.  Just like banning and condemning abortions will not stop abortions, banning and condemning suicide will not stop suicide.

If you can't provide someone with a damn good reason not to do something that actually matters to THEM, then you should shut your fucking mouth.




lvl80elitetaurenchieftain said:


> -Some suicidal people consider suicide as a way to help other people, like they don't want to be a hazard anymore.



This is extremely common in suicidal people.  I've had this mind-set since I was very, very young.  Never been able to shake it.

I guess most people think that only terminally ill people who commit suicide feel like burdens on the world.


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## Ae (Jun 17, 2012)

I just think the problem is people are too sensitive and thin skinned. On the internet, you're not suppose to take it seriously, this should apply in real life too. When we're on the internet we laugh at people who get butthurt, but when in real life, you're like people are fucked up?


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## Narcissus (Jun 17, 2012)

Masterpiece said:


> I just think the problem is people are too sensitive and thin skinned. On the internet, you're not suppose to take it seriously, this should apply in real life too.



The problem with that though, is the internet is far less personal. People threatening you in person is significantly more serious than over the internet, especially when you consider gay bashing does happen.


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## ImperatorMortis (Jun 18, 2012)

Masterpiece said:


> I just think the problem is people are too sensitive and thin skinned.* On the internet, you're not suppose to take it seriously, this should apply in real life too. When we're on the internet we laugh at people who get butthurt, but when in real life, you're like people are fucked up?*



Dude. The internet, and real life is not the same thing. 

Internet: Random/Faceless loser tries to bully you. 

*Laughs, and doesn't give a darn*

Real Life: Physical/Right in front of you loser bullies you, and actively tries to make your life a living hell. 

I'm sorry, but the "ignore" button is still kind of buggy in RL.


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## Jello Biafra (Jun 18, 2012)

You guys seem to be operating under the delusion that people in states of crisis can make choices at all, let alone rational ones.


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## Lina Inverse (Jun 18, 2012)

What gets me in this story is the death threats to him

gay or not, you don't tell people your gonna burn him alive or shoot him, that is just fucking wrong =/


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## Ubereem (Jun 18, 2012)

Doubt fucks everything!!


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## lazer (Jun 18, 2012)

*"When he first came out, he told me that he had lost a lot of his friends because he wanted to live openly as a gay person and he did not understand. He'd be like 'I'm still me. I'm still Brandon, nothing's changed other than the fact that I like boys," his mother said.*

Teengers can be ruthless, especially in school, it was a huge mistake for this kid to publicize his gayness to the entire school. This made him an easy target for bullying. I think the mother should have nipped this in the butt and surpress his openess by telling him of the risks and dangers of being openly gay at school, a place where bullies roam freely.

If that was my boy, i would sit him down and give him hard facts, stats and the realities of bullies and their victims. Unlike the mother of this kid, if i had forewarning of my boys openly gay actions, i would take swift drastic action, e.g. move school, private tutoring or forcing him to surpress his sexuality until university. 

*sigh* what the fuck was the mother thinking? what did she expect? why didn't she take action? and where is the father in all of this?


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## Banhammer (Jun 18, 2012)

I get the message of making an informed decision but do explain how it is his fault for being open about something he has nothing to be ashamed of?


:33


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## lazer (Jun 18, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> I get the message of making an informed decision but do explain how it is his fault for being open about something he has nothing to be ashamed of?
> 
> 
> :33



I am putting the blame on the mother, not the 14 year old naive teenager who isn't aware of his own surroundings.


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## Banhammer (Jun 18, 2012)

His mother who believed he had a right to live happily as himself.
Cunt


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## lazer (Jun 18, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> His mother who believed he had a right to live happily as himself.
> Cunt



Yes...and look how well that turned out  and why am i a cunt?


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## Banhammer (Jun 18, 2012)

It turned out he did have a right to live happily as himself but he got so hounded he so no other choice for himself than to end his life.
His mother suported him, but not even a damn can keep out the sea all the time.

And I called his mom a cunt. With sour irony.


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## butcher50 (Jun 18, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> I get the message of making an informed decision but do explain how it is his fault for being open about something he has nothing to be ashamed of?
> 
> 
> :33



not that it absolves those bastards of driving him to suicide.

but did he knew the risks he was taking ?

that he is in an environment extremely hostile to non-conventional orientations ?

like willingly shoving your hand into crocodile's jaws, you are taking a heavy risk that your hand may or may not be ripped off.

he took a risk and it did not payed off.

i'm still baffled at how no one stood up for him in such tough times.


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## Seto Kaiba (Jun 18, 2012)

Wow. This is just stupid, it's not a matter that he was strong or not, but of depression and the circumstances that bring about depression, which everyone is susceptible to. Suicide due to depression is not a rational act, the individuals aren't in any state of rational thought when attempting it. For example, it's something of a major problem which soldiers do in great numbers in this country, especially when they come back from overseas duty, and I'd be hard-pressed to call any of them "weak". This suicide doesn't say the kid is weak, it says he was depressed and needed support to get through it that he clearly did not get.


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## butcher50 (Jun 18, 2012)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Wow. This is just stupid, it's not a matter that he was strong or not, but of depression and the circumstances that bring about depression, which everyone is susceptible to. Suicide due to depression is not a rational act, the individuals aren't in any state of rational thought when attempting it. For example, it's something of a major problem which soldiers do in great numbers in this country, especially when they come back from overseas duty, and I'd be hard-pressed to call any of them "weak". This suicide doesn't say the kid is weak, it says he was depressed and needed support to get through it that he clearly did not get.



but there is so many speshul people here who believe that they deserve a cookie for not killing themselves


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## wibisana (Jun 18, 2012)

what is wrong with you guys??
gay or not he still a Human
celebrating his death is just sick


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## Maerala (Jun 18, 2012)

lazer said:


> I am putting the blame on the mother, not the 14 year old naive teenager who isn't aware of his own surroundings.



He had a constitutional right to life and liberty. Your blame is misplaced. There's nothing wrong with trying to be free and happy, there's something wrong with people who try to keep that from others.


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## butcher50 (Jun 18, 2012)

Godaime Hokage said:


> He had a *constitutional right to life and liberty*. Your blame is misplaced. There's nothing wrong with trying to be free and happy, there's something wrong with people who try to keep that from others.



bullies, criminals, corrupt officials and like don't give a shit about the constitutional rights of those they victimize.

and once the people who are supposed to safeguard the constitutional rights for life and liberty system are corrupt assholes themselves what worth these paper rights have anymore ?

he was abused, tortured, beaten, humiliated and threatened with murder attempts on his life...........but did the system cared ?

why his constitutional rights did not activate ?

where were your constitutional rights ?

my blood and tears is with the boy and i won't condemn him for his final solution, it takes balls to throw it all away (contrary to what the other robots spewed here)

but he was in a known ultra-hostile environment and his declarations about his tastes was a strategic error.


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## lazer (Jun 18, 2012)

Godaime Hokage said:


> He had a constitutional right to life and liberty. Your blame is misplaced. There's nothing wrong with trying to be free and happy, there's something wrong with people who try to keep that from others.



It's that very same idealistic view that blinded both the boy and the mother from this imminent peril.


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## Roman (Jun 18, 2012)

lazer said:


> *"When he first came out, he told me that he had lost a lot of his friends because he wanted to live openly as a gay person and he did not understand. He'd be like 'I'm still me. I'm still Brandon, nothing's changed other than the fact that I like boys," his mother said.*
> 
> Teengers can be ruthless, especially in school, it was a huge mistake for this kid to publicize his gayness to the entire school. This made him an easy target for bullying. I think the mother should have nipped this in the butt and surpress his openess by telling him of the risks and dangers of being openly gay at school, a place where bullies roam freely.
> 
> ...



That's all well and good so long as this doesn't mean a bully's behavior is justified. There was nothing wrong with him being open about his sexuality. The mother should've been more responsible about guiding him in the right direction but the bullies are far more at fault for being the bastards that they've been.


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## butcher50 (Jun 18, 2012)

Freedan said:


> That's all well and good so long as this doesn't mean a bully's behavior is justified. There was nothing wrong with him being open about his sexuality. The mother should've been more responsible about guiding him in the right direction but the bullies are far more at fault for being the bastards that they've been.



justifying the bullies ? HAS VE HALILA !

but that doesn't stops making open declarations in hostile environments being a strategic error.


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## Maerala (Jun 18, 2012)

I don't disagree that it's a potentially bad idea to be open about being gay in Texas, of all places, but it's hardly right to blame either the son or the mother for it, especially with the kind of cruelty and unkindness expressed in this thread. He was quite literally entitled to the pursuit of happiness. He shouldn't have had to live his life in secret until college, like people are suggesting. Could something have been done to prevent this from happening? Could they have moved to a different state? Maybe, but not everyone has the resources to just up and go whenever they want. The bottom line is that they shouldn't bear the burden of the blame; all the negative energy should be channeled at unresponsive officials who don't take bullying seriously and parents who don't teach tolerance.


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## izzyisozaki (Jun 18, 2012)

If someone doesn't do it, then nothing will change. He couldn't deal with the consequential pressure, but he obviously couldn't be someone he wasn't either. This isn't Iran - you can't expect an individual to hide something as natural as their orientation cos some people care whose ass you wanna tap.


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## lazer (Jun 18, 2012)

Freedan said:


> That's all well and good so long as this doesn't mean a bully's behavior is justified. There was nothing wrong with him being open about his sexuality.



As i said earlier, in situations such as this, which is filled with peril, i use the realistic view over the idealistic one.



Freedan said:


> The mother should've been more responsible about guiding him in the right direction *but the bullies are far more at fault for being the bastards that they've been*.



There is a shepherd with 20 sheep, he/she must guide the sheep from A to B. There are two ways to reach B. One way is quick but notoriously known for harbouring wolves and the other way is long but is lined with gaurds. Which way should the shepherd guide his sheep? 

If the shepherd enters the way filled with wolves, is it the wolves fault for devouring the sheep?


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## butcher50 (Jun 18, 2012)

izzyisozaki said:


> If someone doesn't do it, then nothing will change. He couldn't deal with the consequential pressure, but he obviously couldn't be someone he wasn't either. This isn't Iran - you can't expect an individual to hide something as natural as their orientation cos some people care whose ass you wanna tap.



Environment ?: super-hostile for gays.

ID ?: stealth mode

personal weaponry arsenal ?: none

hand-to-hand combat ?: none

potential Allies ?: probabilities for reinforcements are extremely unlikely in the event of stealth mode shutdown.

Council Authority aid ?: low.

Retreat Options ?: insufficient.

ID ?: disengage stealth mode 

(WARNING WARNING WARNING: strategic error detected, imminent attack, imminent emergency..........)


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## Banhammer (Jun 18, 2012)

And black people should have brought ponchos to their civil rights march


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## Mael (Jun 18, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> And black people should have brought ponchos to their civil rights march



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHGjQcxSPfI&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]


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## butcher50 (Jun 18, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> And black people should have brought ponchos to their civil rights march



blame the disgusting cowards and traitors which he considered to be his "friends" for abandoning him when he needed them most.

they must have thought that he's gonna live through this and everything will turn out fine more or less, now they are gonna have to live with a mark of shame for the rest of their lives.


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## izzyisozaki (Jun 18, 2012)

butcher50 said:


> Environment ?: super-hostile for gays.
> 
> ID ?: stealth mode
> 
> ...



It's not an excuse - to me it's no different from asking a black guy to become white. I don't see how bullying homosexuals is anywhere near being socially acceptable no matter what State you're in. El Paso is not some lost village in Utah.


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## lazer (Jun 18, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> And black people should have brought ponchos to their civil rights march



What's this? i tried googling this but i found the African-American Civil Rights Movement (1955?1968) but nothing about ponchos 

lol anyway, my original point was that parents should always be held accountable, especially if they had prior warning.


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## Roman (Jun 18, 2012)

lazer said:


> As i said earlier, in situations such as this, which is filled with peril, i use the realistic view over the idealistic one.



Realism doesn't imply it's 100% impossible for people not to accept others for who they are and simply taking how things are as the eternal truth. That's not realism imo, that's complacency.



lazer said:


> There is a shepherd with 20 sheep, he/she must guide the sheep from A to B. There are two ways to reach B. One way is quick but notoriously known for harbouring wolves and the other way is long but is lined with gaurds. Which way should the shepherd guide his sheep?
> 
> If the shepherd enters the way filled with wolves, is it the wolves fault for devouring the sheep?



Bullies aren't wolves. They may act like them, but unlike wolves, people can do something about correcting their behavior. They're not like wolves whose very purpose in life is none other than picking on hapless sheep. Just because they exist doesn't mean nothing should be done about them. What you're suggesting would only give people like the boy in this case guilty for being the way they are, a feeling completely undeserved. It's NOT the child's or the mothers fault here (tho the latter has some responsibility, she's still not the one completely at fault), it's the bullies for making someone feel guilty for being who he wanted to be.


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## Ceria (Jun 18, 2012)

I feel like the mother should've been more active in trying to help her son, he'd come home and tell her about threats but did nothing to help him. 

this could've been prevented


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## Vergil (Jun 18, 2012)

I'm not sure why we have to blame folk here, other than the bullies.

I would like the bullies and their parents to confront the parents of the child who took his life. Then I would like them to listen to what it sounds like and see what it looks like for a parent to have lost their child. With any luck the world will have less people that think its ok to torment someone due to their sexual preferences.


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## Ae (Jun 18, 2012)

Narcissus said:


> The problem with that though, is the internet is far less personal. People threatening you in person is significantly more serious than over the internet, especially when you consider gay bashing does happen.





ImperatorMortis said:


> Dude. The internet, and real life is not the same thing.
> 
> Internet: Random/Faceless loser tries to bully you.
> 
> ...





Seto Kaiba said:


> Wow. This is just stupid, it's not a matter that he was strong or not, but of depression and the circumstances that bring about depression, which everyone is susceptible to. Suicide due to depression is not a rational act, the individuals aren't in any state of rational thought when attempting it. For example, it's something of a major problem which soldiers do in great numbers in this country, especially when they come back from overseas duty, and I'd be hard-pressed to call any of them "weak". This suicide doesn't say the kid is weak, it says he was depressed and needed support to get through it that he clearly did not get.



From what I can tell, he was only verbally bullied. No matter how personal or cruel the insults were, they were only words. I know it's lame, but the "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me."

He got depressed because he wasn't strong enough. It doesn't need to say he's weak, but the fact that he needed support, shows it.


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## Hand Banana (Jun 18, 2012)

MbS said:


> I can?t help but feel that these people who commit suicide can?t look beyond the short term and take only their own feelings into account.



Says the person who wanted to commit suicide herself.


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## Gunners (Jun 18, 2012)

Masterpiece said:


> From what I can tell, he was only verbally bullied. No matter how personal or cruel the insults were, they were only words. I know it's lame, but the "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me."
> 
> He got depressed because he wasn't strong enough. It doesn't need to say he's weak, but the fact that he needed support, shows it.



It is lame because it is stupid, words can have a more lasting effect than a black eye.


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## Kunoichiwa (Jun 18, 2012)

Up to 90 percent of people who commit suicide had a treatable mental illness. These conditions are often undiagnosed, untreated or both.

So people saying he was weak can kindly shut up. The bullying probably didn't cause his depression, it just made it worse and made him less able to deal with it.


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## CrazyMoronX (Jun 18, 2012)

MbS said:


> I can?t help but feel that these people who commit suicide can?t look beyond the short term and take only their own feelings into account.



Homophobe. This kid was gay.

It isn't his fault.



We need to ban children. They bully people into death.


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## Ae (Jun 18, 2012)

Gunners said:


> It is lame because it is stupid, words can have a more lasting effect than a black eye.



It shouldn't last at all, he should have shrug it off. Words is powerful when it's meaningful, that's not the case here.



Kunoichiwa said:


> Up to 90 percent of people who commit suicide had a treatable mental illness. These conditions are often undiagnosed, untreated or both.
> 
> So people saying he was weak can kindly shut up. The bullying probably didn't cause his depression, it just made it worse and made him less able to deal with it.



I don't valid argument so I'll say he had a mental illness.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jun 18, 2012)

What's fun about mental illness and people without it is that it clouds judgement and perception. I have depression and I can tell you a lot of the time things that you assume are just fact and have to be when you have depression are bullshit and nothing more than your mind telling you one of the worst case scenarios. I can literally text someone and my first thought if they don't text right back is "they hate me, they're never going to talk to me again" and if you don't realize that's how depression can manifest sometimes, then it will be hard for you. Because other people often don't realize it and they think you're just being a bitch or you're just silly. 

People don't understand mental illness and thus they usually deal with people who have it badly, those people go undiagnosed and they hurt themselves because of that.


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## lazer (Jun 18, 2012)

Freedan said:


> Realism doesn't imply it's 100% impossible for people not to accept others for who they are and simply taking how things are as the eternal truth. That's not realism imo, that's complacency.



It's not self-satisfaction, it's reality. Imbalance of power and bullying has existed since the dawn of man and it's idealistic to think people will simply accept others for who they are, especially in this case, where teenage homosexuals are susceptible to bullying at school. Though i believe, in time, the severity of bullying will decrease but only in a perfect world, we will accept each other 100%

I think homosexuality is making giant steps towards acceptance, e.g. same sex marriage but i think it's idealistic to not expect any resistance and to not prepare or take any measures to deal with this resistance _*cough* the boy's mom*cough*_



Freedan said:


> Bullies aren't wolves. They may act like them, but unlike wolves, people can do something about correcting their behavior. They're not like wolves whose very purpose in life is none other than picking on hapless sheep. Just because they exist doesn't mean nothing should be done about them. What you're suggesting would only give people like the boy in this case guilty for being the way they are, a feeling completely undeserved. It's NOT the child's or the mothers fault here (tho the latter has some responsibility, she's still not the one completely at fault), it's the bullies for making someone feel guilty for being who he wanted to be.



I think you and alot of people here are focusing on the wrong thing.

*"When he first came out, he told me that he had lost a lot of his friends because he wanted to live openly as a gay person and he did not understand. He'd be like 'I'm still me. I'm still Brandon, nothing's changed other than the fact that I like boys," his mother said.*

*His mother said bullying and threats led to Brandon's suicide.*

*The teen's mother said Brandon had friends but also had bullies.*

We see, that the mother was fully aware of the situation, multiple warning signs that her son's wellbeing and safety is at risk and yet no measures were taken in advance to prevent something dangerous from occuring.

As i said earlier, prevention>cure but alot of people are fixated on the bullying aspect. Even after i gave the example with the shephard, sheeps and wolves, you fixated onto the wolves. So why are the bullies taking most of the blame here? and why did the mother handle the situation so nonchalantly? i think it's wrong of you to say that zero fault should be put on the mother.

One thing is for sure, the school will have to incorporate an anti homosexual bullying regime from now on, since this has undoubtebly shone a negative light on the school. *sigh* it shouldn't have to take a suiciding teenager to force a school to up their equality standards


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## DoflaMihawk (Jun 18, 2012)

I never think suicide is the right option, but I can't help but feel sorry for the kid.


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## Petes12 (Jun 18, 2012)

kunoichi no kira, i am pretty sure if anyone considering suicide comes to the nf cafe they're gonna go through with it whether its supported here or not. because holy shit look at these other threads


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## Orxon (Jun 18, 2012)

Everyone on opposite sides of the spectrum has valid points to justify their beliefs. Moreover, we're all extremely stubborn about what we think so why are people in this thread wasting their energy trying to prove their superiority? It makes no ends to this kid what you think of him or any suicide victim for that matter.


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## butcher50 (Jun 18, 2012)

izzyisozaki said:


> It's not an excuse - to me it's no different from asking a black guy to become white. I don't see how bullying homosexuals is anywhere near being socially acceptable no matter what State you're in. El Paso is not some lost village in Utah.



"freedom" isn't free, but your naivete is amusing though.


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## izzyisozaki (Jun 18, 2012)

butcher50 said:


> "freedom" isn't free, but your naivete is amusing though.



In any civil country this should be obvious shit by now, sorry if my memories of Texas don't seem to make it some excluded part of the earth.


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## Revolution (Jun 18, 2012)

martryn said:


> Suicide?  Hard to feel sorry for him since he took the easy way out.  Life might have been hard, but it would have gotten better if only he could have hung on for a few more years.  I don't have a lot of respect for people who commit suicide because life's too hard.



The trick is getting these kids to realize that they are obligated to their family and loved ones.  By commiting suicide, you are hurting your loved ones permanently.  

If bullying is the problem, changing schools should be an option.


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## butcher50 (Jun 18, 2012)

izzyisozaki said:


> In any civil country this should be obvious shit by now, sorry if my memories of Texas don't seem to make it some excluded part of the earth.



tell that to all the authorities, officials and his so-called "friends" whos job was to protect such ideals when he was being driven to despair and death under their very watch and see if they really care.

deep inside to these monsters _"another ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) kid died what's the difference ?"_


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## Lebron Flocka James (Jun 18, 2012)

*He should have punched one of the bullies just because he dose not act like a guy does not mean he can't punch like one..............*


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## perman07 (Jun 18, 2012)

Sarahmint said:


> The trick is getting these kids to realize that they are obligated to their family and loved ones.  By commiting suicide, you are hurting your loved ones permanently.


Dude, I think 99% of people who take suicide are intimately aware of this. That's why there is so much shame in taking one's life, because one does it despite knowing about the pain you cause other people. It's an ultimately selfish act, and people who take suicide definitely know that. 

Not that I'm trying to judge here, I dislike all the judging in this thread. There's no one here who's ever experienced how it's truly like to be someone else, and pain is ultimately subjective.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jun 18, 2012)

We can just make up a statistic now? I think 85% of suicide victims are ROBOTS.


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## kazuri (Jun 18, 2012)

> The trick is getting these kids to realize that they are obligated to their family and loved ones. By commiting suicide, you are hurting your loved ones permanently.



That is ridiculous. No one is obligated to stay alive so they don't hurt other peoples feelings.


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## izzyisozaki (Jun 18, 2012)

butcher50 said:


> tell that to all the authorities, officials and his so-called "friends" whos job was to protect such ideals when he was being driven to despair and death under their very watch and see if they really care.
> 
> deep inside to these monsters _"another ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) kid died what's the difference ?"_



Uh, and how do you know about any of that as a fact? 

He went to a school like any other - the problem is likely that there were the right array of individuals to bring his morale down despite the system. This can happen with even less serious extents of discrimination where one gets verbally bullied 'just cos' - which can be easily ignored by teachers and classmates - that's just how 'indifferent' social groups can be. Like that kid, those bullied 'just cos' can't be different from how they are and while the category is enforced on them there is no reason to 'discourage' open manifestations of identity. People who get out of highschool without having pretended to be something they are not not only get out satisfied but have nothing to regret.


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## perman07 (Jun 18, 2012)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> We can just make up a statistic now? I think 85% of suicide victims are ROBOTS.


If it's 51%, my point still stands. The point being that what he said is probably known or intuitive by the majority suicide candidates.

Of course, this should have been obvious reading my post, but you chose to focus on the least significant part of it...


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jun 18, 2012)

perman07 said:


> If it's 51%, my point still stands. The point being that what he said is probably known or intuitive by the majority suicide candidates.
> 
> Of course, this should have been obvious reading my post, but you chose to focus on the least significant part of it...


It's a very significant part because people with depression and other mental health problems don't see the obvious about the world. Have you ever met a girl with actual diagnosed body image issues? They can look like super models and still think they're too ugly or fat to be loved by anyone. The same way a depressed person can feel alone when they're loved by their family.


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## MinatoRider (Jun 18, 2012)

Mider T said:


> And the Texas comments get old really quick, fact of the matter is this could've happened anywhere.  As much as we joke about Texas, we all know it's not as backwards as we'd like to believe.




True it happens everywhere but this is Texas after all, a Pro-republican Pro- family value Pro-Christan and ant-gay state, I mean look at there Governor 


[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PAJNntoRgA[/YOUTUBE]

No offense to the people living taxes I know most of you are smart and have common sense and treating gay people with respect .


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## Narcissus (Jun 18, 2012)

Masterpiece said:


> From what I can tell, he was only verbally bullied. No matter how personal or cruel the insults were, they were only words. I know it's lame, but the "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me."
> 
> He got depressed because he wasn't strong enough. It doesn't need to say he's weak, but the fact that he needed support, shows it.



That's nonsense. In person, words can, and do, have potent effects on people. The internet is different because you can always ignore the person (ignore, block, close the screen, etc.) and it isn't personal.

In person, it's more difficult to ignore because they're right there. And it's not just insults he was getting, he got *DEATH THREATS*. Considering that gay people do get bashed, that isn't something that was just easy to ignore...


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## drache (Jun 18, 2012)

Sarahmint said:


> The trick is getting these kids to realize that they are obligated to their family and loved ones.  By commiting suicide, you are hurting your loved ones permanently.
> 
> If bullying is the problem, changing schools should be an option.



clearly you've never been suicidal because you'd know that at a certain point all that does is feed more into the pain

sometimes it might help sometimes it might just push people over the edge it's not simple and not easy really there is no 1 size fits all approach


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## KevKev (Jun 18, 2012)

Do homophobics really see gays as like evil scum? There only humans...seriously what's wrong with you


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## Kusa (Jun 19, 2012)

Most people here underestimate his situation.Of course comming suidice is selfish act but being called disgusting and bullied the whole time is gruesome.

The most horrible thing about it is,if you are called gross e.t.c the whole fucking time  someday you will end up believing it.Human need love and recognition,if they don't get any ,then there is no wonder when people like this boy will commit suidice.This doesn't make him week but just a human who was hurt the whole time and didn't want to get hurt anymore because he simply couldn't.

It's sad for the parents ,but they should have tried to help their boy,searching a new school or going to a different city would have been a good start.


Things like this happen because some people underestimate the consequences that being something most people don't respect can bring.The boy should have told no one about being gay.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 19, 2012)

Chocilla said:


> Things like this happen because some people underestimate the consequences that being something most people don't respect can bring.The boy should have told no one about being gay.


Yes, because lying to yourself and lying to others on how you really are is a good lesson for homosexual kids!


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## butcher50 (Jun 19, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Yes, because lying to yourself and lying to others on how you really are is a good lesson for homosexual kids!



when in Rome...........


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## Miss Fortune (Jun 19, 2012)

I still don't get why so many people have a problem with homosexuality...


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## Jason (Jun 20, 2012)

Miss Fortune said:


> I still don't get why so many people have a problem with homosexuality...



Same here, also it seems as soon as one commits suicide it becomes newsworthy. Shouldn't that be the other way around?


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## ImperatorMortis (Jun 20, 2012)

I don't understand how this crap gets in the news. Does the media just get word, and track them down? Do the parents call the media. Something like suicide should be personal, and as private as possible IMO.


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## ImperatorMortis (Jun 20, 2012)

Masterpiece said:


> It shouldn't last at all, he should have shrug it off. Words is powerful when it's meaningful, that's not the case here.



Don't be ignorant. Words are powerful, and can cut deeper than a blade. It may not seem meaningful to you, but it was meaningful to him. 

Not everyone has thick skin, nor can be expected to.

Oh, and just because someone wants to end their life does not mean they have a mental illness.

This world is not that great.


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