# Baryon Naruto vs EoS Aizen



## Steven (Feb 2, 2021)

Round 1: Baryon with Timelimit
Round 2: No Timelimit


----------



## SSMG (Feb 2, 2021)

Naruto may hit heavier in this form idk... But he still has no answer to complete hypnosis hax.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Hardcore (Feb 2, 2021)

is that form stronger or weaker than eos nardo?


----------



## Blade (Feb 2, 2021)

Hardcore said:


> is that form stronger or weaker than eos nardo?




it is







































dumber, thanks to kishi's s8 ''sci fi'' big brain streak, professor nuclear physics kurama is CANON 

sadly, it is stronger - obd wise, still small planet level+ though [to a higher degree]

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Yumi Zoro (Feb 2, 2021)

Baryon Mode Naruto's true power is still a mystery.

The mode is able to surpass the strongest Otsutsuki's power and I ovepower him whitout the use of ninjutsu.

Now imagine Naruto using AOE in that form allong thousand shadow clones.

The mode could also have the property to make Naruto one with matter by become the Baryon Himself like how Flash is able merge with the speed force.

The potential with the mode once Mastered will be endless.


As for thread, RSM Naruto for the win, mid diff at worst, Baryon mode will be Overkill even with the side effect.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | MAXIMUM 1


----------



## Steven (Feb 2, 2021)

Hardcore said:


> is that form stronger or weaker than eos nardo?


Stronger but still no Goudamas


----------



## Keishin (Feb 2, 2021)

Aizen
No one will ever lose to bprtoverse


----------



## Steven (Feb 2, 2021)

Keishin said:


> Aizen
> No one will ever lose to bprtoverse


Good that this Naruto>EoS Naruto...


----------



## accountmaker (Feb 2, 2021)

FFS the form is useless. Naruto can't spend more than like a minute in that form, and the "life force" it drains barely took a half hour off Jigen's (?) life. It's useless in the OBD because nads is till capped at planet level, and the form doesn't have any more feats other than momentarily blitzing a tired Ishiki, and overpowering him!


----------



## accountmaker (Feb 2, 2021)

At least wait until it gets more feats, which it probably won't considering the after effects


----------



## Jag77 (Feb 2, 2021)

We're never seeing that form again period

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


----------



## shade0180 (Feb 3, 2021)

Don't let the hype that this is the strongest otsutsuki fool you, it's all bullshit.

This new otsutsuki ranaway from Kaguya and literally lost his dick against her, Just think about that.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Steven (Feb 3, 2021)

shade0180 said:


> Don't let the hype that this is the strongest otsutsuki fool you, it's all bullshit.
> 
> This new otsutsuki ranaway from Kaguya and literally lost his dick against her, Just think about that.


Anybody who believes Isshiki is stronger as Kaguya has 0 clue about the lore and powerscale in Naruto.

Its not like Kaguya already stomped this clown with his shit ass Jutsu´s


----------



## shade0180 (Feb 3, 2021)

Acno said:


> Anybody who believes Isshiki is stronger as Kaguya has 0 clue about the lore and powerscale in Naruto.
> 
> Its not like Kaguya already stomped this clown with his shit ass Jutsu´s


Yep, also him losing his dick against her ain't a joke. She literally tore his lower half and destroyed it and he runaway with only his upper body intact.


----------



## Linvel (Feb 3, 2021)

Didn’t it state that Kaguya took him off guard or something like that? It wasn’t an actual fight.


----------



## Steven (Feb 3, 2021)

Linvel said:


> Didn’t it state that Kaguya took him off guard or something like that? It wasn’t an actual fight.


Kaguya has:
Better feats
Better jutsu´s
Better portrayal
Is still not dead,just sealed

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Linvel (Feb 3, 2021)

What does that have to do with what I said?


----------



## Hardcore (Feb 3, 2021)

shade0180 said:


> Yep, also him losing his dick against her ain't a joke. She literally tore his lower half and destroyed it and he runaway with only his upper body intact.



though

coming from someone who does not read burrito

the final villain should be stronger than nardo's logically

meaning some time he should regain his manhood and stand up to kaguya

and that's the only thing i'm probably going to read

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Canute87 (Feb 3, 2021)

This Bayron Naruto or whatever must be one hell of a powerup to be pitted against Aizen of all people.


----------



## accountmaker (Feb 3, 2021)

Canute87 said:


> This Bayron Naruto or whatever must be one hell of a powerup to be pitted against Aizen of all people.


It's not

Reactions: Agree 3


----------



## Utopia Realm (Feb 3, 2021)

Funny enough, Aizen could just open a portal and leave. He's immortal and Naruto can't jump dimensions with S/T jutsu.

I mean, it's sad that even Boruto can do it now.  

Aizen uses bankai and wins more often than not.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


----------



## ClannadFan (Feb 4, 2021)

The Baryon downplay is real lmao.

Esspecially even when saying no time limit yall still downplay it. 

If I lost 90% of my remaining lifespan after a few punches, I'd be a bit cautious after that lmao. And if I remember right, correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't the radiation make it so that when your opponent uses energy, thier lifespan also shortens? So if Naruto has no time limit, and then the opponent essentially does, doesn't that make that hypothetical situation pretty hax if fighting an opponent of similar strength?


----------



## accountmaker (Feb 4, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> The Baryon downplay is real lmao.
> 
> Esspecially even when saying no time limit yall still downplay it.
> 
> If I lost 90% of my remaining lifespan after a few punches, I'd be a bit cautious after that lmao. And if I remember right, correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't the radiation make it so that when your opponent uses energy, thier lifespan also shortens? So if Naruto has no time limit, and then the opponent essentially does, doesn't that make that hypothetical situation pretty hax if fighting an opponent of similar strength?


Man, it was never fucking stated that Bowl Movement takes 90% of your lifespan. Ishiki had like a few minutes to an hour left, and Naruto barely managed to shave that off before being overwhelmed due to strain the form puts on him. The physical boost it grants him is negligible in an OBD setting. What, it takes him from planet level+ to... planet level +? And maybe a few, indiscernible degrees faster than he already was? 

C'mon, man.


----------



## accountmaker (Feb 4, 2021)

And no time limit is bullshit. It takes minutes off your life, not a set percentage, unless you can prove otherwise, which you can't and probably never will as that form will most likely never be used again.

And this is fucking aizen. Any damn Kido or Kyoka suigetsu BS is enough to put Nads down

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## Linvel (Feb 4, 2021)

Tbh Aizen is only Continent Level meanwhile Naruto is Small Planet  and Naruto has the speed advantage  so Naruto should win.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


----------



## Steven (Feb 4, 2021)

Utopia Realm said:


> Funny enough, Aizen could just open a portal and leave. He's immortal and Naruto can't jump dimensions with S/T jutsu.
> 
> I mean, it's sad that even Boruto can do it now.
> 
> Aizen uses bankai and wins more often than not.


Lol what Bankai?

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## The World (Feb 4, 2021)

shade0180 said:


> Don't let the hype that this is the strongest otsutsuki fool you, it's all bullshit.
> 
> This new otsutsuki ranaway from Kaguya and literally lost his dick against her, Just think about that.


she cheapshotted him. She didn't beat him in actual fight. Though this is before her powerup so shes probably still stronger


----------



## The World (Feb 4, 2021)

Hardcore said:


> though
> 
> coming from someone who does not read burrito
> 
> ...


If Momoshiki possessed Nardo he could do it too.

Momo is just Burritos Kyuubi


----------



## shade0180 (Feb 4, 2021)

The World said:


> she cheapshotted him. She didn't beat him in actual fight. Though this is before her powerup so shes probably still stronger


So she literally one shotted his lower half is what you are saying or she just got the first hit and still had the ability to hack and destroy his lower half.

 because however you spin it, Kaguya literally has the power to instant kill him even if it is a surprise attack or not. While this new Otsutsuki can't even one-shot Nardo if he was given a chance..

And we know Kaguya actually had the chance to kill Sauce, Nardo and Kakashi combined if PIS wasn't in play.


----------



## Commander Shunsui (Feb 4, 2021)

Their fighting styles clash horribly here. Naruto will fall into KS pretty easily but he hits harder I believe. Round one definitely Aizen round two is weird because of immorality and shit


----------



## Steven (Feb 4, 2021)

The World said:


> she cheapshotted him. She didn't beat him in actual fight. Though this is before her powerup so shes probably still stronger


Cheapshot or not,Kaguya was strong enough to oneshot this clown

One Ashbone in his ass and RIp Isshiki


----------



## Soldierofficial (Feb 4, 2021)

accountmaker said:


> And no time limit is bullshit. It takes minutes off your life, not a set percentage, unless you can prove otherwise, which you can't and probably never will as that form will most likely never be used again.
> 
> And this is fucking aizen. Any damn Kido or Kyoka suigetsu BS is enough to put Nads down



If it were like this the form would be useless, we know that it is not like that though, Isshiki had a life span of around 20 hours according to his own words and Naruto was able to reduce it to less than 30 minutes with only 5 hits, if each hit got an fixed amount of minutes Naruto would only have needed one more hit to kill Isshiki, but after hitting him 3 more times Isshiki's life span was reduced to less than 10 minutes.


----------



## shade0180 (Feb 4, 2021)

Soldierofficial said:


> If it were like this the form would be useless, we know that it is not like that though, Isshiki had a life span of around 20 hours according to his own words and Naruto was able to reduce it to less than 30 minutes with only 5 hits, if each hit got an fixed amount of minutes Naruto would only have needed one more hit to kill Isshiki, but after hitting him 3 more times Isshiki's life span was reduced to less than 10 minutes.


it doesn't matter shinigami has thousands of years in their lifespan.

 why the fuck are you even talking about his life drain, specially against Aizen.

Even if you calculate that shit he would need years to reduce Aizen lifespan significantly, He can only last for a few minutes with that form maybe not even fucking a full minute.

Seriously even a normal human wouldn't get killed by that form if we are just basing on its drainage.

Nardo would die even before he kills a normal human if we just use his drainage ability.

that's how fucking bad this ability is.


----------



## Rom the Chad Knight (Feb 4, 2021)

Sooooo Burning Godzilla did it better ye?


----------



## shade0180 (Feb 4, 2021)

goldfish00 said:


> Sooooo Burning Godzilla did it better ye?


Yes he did it better by a lot, Considering if he dies he actually can explode.

 Nardo just drops dead


----------



## Soldierofficial (Feb 4, 2021)

shade0180 said:


> it doesn't matter shinigami has thousands of years in their lifespan.
> 
> why the fuck are you even talking about his life drain, specially against Aizen.
> 
> ...



Naruto's's hits reduce someone's life span by percentage, Isshiki's life was only reduced minutes when he was literally minutes away from dying, before that Naruto's was able to reduce Isshiki's life from 20 hours to 30 minutes with a couple of blows, for someone with thousands of years of life each blow would be worth hundreds of years at least.


----------



## shade0180 (Feb 4, 2021)

Soldierofficial said:


> Naruto's's hits reduce someone's life span by percentage, Isshiki's life was only reduced minutes when he was literally minutes away from dying, before that Naruto's was able to reduce Isshiki's life from 20 hours to 30 minutes with a couple of blows, for someone with thousands of years of life each blow would be worth hundreds of years at least.


dude that's bullshit.

you are inflating his ability to drain.

 his drain is, a few minute < 20 hours that's literally the sample size you have. anything higher than that is fucking nlf and that's not how we operate in this shit.

you need to prove and provide evidence that he can drain hundreds of hours in a minute that he is operating. Which you can't, as kishi would most likely seal this form after this, and his full scope of ability is at best speculation which isn't going to fly.


Seriously you can't just say Naruto can drain millions of years of Lifespan if he punch someone with 10 billions years of lifespan.

 only type of people that going to take that seriously are retarded posters like you.


----------



## Soldierofficial (Feb 4, 2021)

shade0180 said:


> dude that's bullshit.
> 
> you are inflating his ability to drain.
> 
> ...



I'm just saying what happened in the chapter, the ability cannot work as you say since Naruto's 5 hits were enough to reduce 19.5 hours of Isshiki's life but after some time each hit only reduced his life by about 5 minutes, so it takes a fixed percentage from you your life with every hit, not a fixed number of minutes/hours.


----------



## shade0180 (Feb 4, 2021)

Soldierofficial said:


> the ability cannot work as you say since Naruto's 5 hits were enough to reduce 19.5 hours of Isshiki's life but after some time each hit only reduced his life by about 5 minutes, so it takes a fixed percentage from you your life with every hit, not a fixed number of minutes/hours.


No.

 the only point you have is that his draining ability is inconsistent.

It could be that the longer his form stays and the weaker he becomes the weaker his draining ability becomes to the point it only drains <5 mins.


----------



## Soldierofficial (Feb 4, 2021)

shade0180 said:


> No.



Not really, it's the only thing that makes sense, why Isshiki's life dropped 19.5 hours with 5 hits and after that only 20 minutes with another 3 hits?


----------



## shade0180 (Feb 4, 2021)

Soldierofficial said:


> Not really, it's the only thing that makes sense, why Isshiki's life dropped 19.5 hours with 5 hits and after that only 20 minutes with another 3 hits?



or his drainage is sporadic and base on how long he can last in that form.

The earlier he is in the form the greater the drainage and the longer he stays in the form the lesser his drainage to the point he can't even drain a full 5 mins due to him getting weaker.

 Seriously. Shit is speculation. But I'm going with the more logical solution.


----------



## SSMG (Feb 4, 2021)

Yeah the fixed % doesn't work because if he took off over 90% of the time with 5 hits... Those last 3 hits should have killed isshiki outright.  It would have brought the total to about 145% of his lifespan. 


But this didn't happen and we do know nardo was getting weaker as the form lasted so it's probably what shade is saying. That what makes most sense to me.


----------



## Steven (Feb 4, 2021)

Since when is KS usefull when Naruto already countered Mindfuck?


----------



## MarF (Feb 4, 2021)

Baryon mode is a garbage transformation and staight up worthless in an OBD setting, hell it's a nerf for Nardo objectively speaking.

He can't use Ninjutsu, meaning no clone/henge trickery or long range attacks with AoE. His stamina takes a massive nerf, he's dying from exhaustion in a matter of minutes. The far, far weaker Immortals arc Naruto could train with 200 shadow clones in Ninjutsu for 24 hours straight.

The stat boost he gets is unquantifiable. He's still sitting at small planet+ level in dc and dura and sub relativistic in speed.

His limited ability to burn away a persons life span is also garbage, as seen in the only fight Naruto ever used this form. If Naruto doesn't have the firepower to actually kill his opponent, he's just getting outlasted and if he has the firepower to outright kill them, there is no point in using said ability in the first place.

As for the matchup:

Aizen sits at MHS+ and continent level according to the OBD wiki. If that's accurate, even base Nardo oneshots him.


----------



## TrueG 37 (Feb 4, 2021)

Remember kids. When Nardo fans tell you ssb is a worthless transformation a d Naruto is different in this regard. Remind them of baryon mode. Or as I like to call it axed 8 mode  .


----------



## ClannadFan (Feb 4, 2021)

accountmaker said:


> And no time limit is bullshit. It takes minutes off your life, not a set percentage, unless you can prove otherwise, which you can't and probably never will as that form will most likely never be used again.
> 
> And this is fucking aizen. Any damn Kido or Kyoka suigetsu BS is enough to put Nads down


Well you're claiming it takes mins off your lifespan instead of a percentage, which you also have no evidence of. If you actually think about it without the clear bias you have, a percentage would make more sense than mins. Baryon Naruto was stronger than Isshiki, so he took a large percentage of his lifespan quickly. Are you suggesting if he fought Choji, that only a few mins would of been taken off as well? Unbaised point of view says Choji would of been sucked dry the instant he made contact with the nuculear chakra.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## accountmaker (Feb 4, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> Well you're claiming it takes mins off your lifespan instead of a percentage, which you also have no evidence of. If you actually think about it without the clear bias you have, a percentage would make more sense than mins. Baryon Naruto was stronger than Isshiki, so he took a large percentage of his lifespan quickly. Are you suggesting if he fought Choji, that only a few mins would of been taken off as well? Unbaised point of view says Choji would of been sucked dry the instant he made contact with the nuculear chakra.


This is too stupid to give a serious response to, so instead I will post the "hey digimon" song. 
Makes more sense than the shit you just spouted


----------



## kayz (Feb 5, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> Well you're claiming it takes mins off your lifespan instead of a percentage, which you also have no evidence of. If you actually think about it without the clear bias you have, a percentage would make more sense than mins. Baryon Naruto was stronger than Isshiki, so he took a large percentage of his lifespan quickly. Are you suggesting if he fought Choji, that only a few mins would of been taken off as well? Unbaised point of view says Choji would of been sucked dry the instant he made contact with the nuculear chakra.


It's most likely takes percentage than minutes. So you are correct

It takes the lifeforce drainage effect Naruto himself is suffering, and transfers it to the opponent.

A weakass like Choji (same for anyother non-god tier character) will die in an instant in one punch since he doesn't have the same life force potency Naruto has.

Baryon mode is a potency thing, not based on quantity (minutes). I believe they'll further explain it next chapter.

The quality of Isshiki's lifeforce is no joke, even if he had 20+ hours to live in Jigen's body. Otsutsukis are immortal (longevity), so they have incredible lifeforce.


----------



## ChaosTheory123 (Feb 5, 2021)

I mean, if you're talking how long he has to live in terms of how much energy he can expend before his body gives out?

I'd figure an hour of this fucker's life is worth more raw stamina/power than just about everyone in the verse would expend in their life time if he's on the general level of that random space moon rabbit from no where.

How long we have to live is something we could theoretically measure, just a morbid matter of determining how much energy we'll be expending in our life time.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## kayz (Feb 5, 2021)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> I mean, if you're talking how long he has to live in terms of how much energy he can expend before his body gives out?
> 
> I'd figure an hour of this fucker's life is worth more raw stamina/power than just about everyone in the verse would expend in their life time if he's on the general level of that random space moon rabbit from no where.
> 
> How long we have to live is something we could theoretically measure, just a morbid matter of determining how much energy we'll be expending in our life time.


Exactly.
Baryon mode attacks have an effect on the chakra/energy of Isshiki, and not the body of Jigen.

As you said, an hour of Isshiki's chakra must be a whole lot in terms of life force for a normal person.


----------



## accountmaker (Feb 5, 2021)

Wow.
ALL of that is baseless speculation. If the damn mode took a PERCENTAGE of the opponent's life, than no matter who Naruto was facing, they wouldn't immediately die from that. Choji would sooner die from the shockwaves of Naruto's punch than the actual drainage effect if we wanna argue "percentage".

The only other way you could look at it is if we say that Baryon uses a percentage of NARUTO'S chakra, to drain someone's life force relative to that percent. We have no way of knowing how much or how little chakra is at play here, so it's unquantifiable.

We. Need. More. Feats.

We have no way of measuring how much or how little it takes, because we have no reference. Ishiki could only maintain his half assed form for a few hours because Jigen was an interior vessel. We can't even accurately determine how the form "really" works, because what Naruto was draining was Ishiki's remaining time "alive" _within_ Jigen's body.

There's so much BS around that form that you'd need way more showings to make any accurate statements.


----------



## accountmaker (Feb 5, 2021)

Hell, we don't even know if it's "life drain" or "energy drain". FFS


----------



## ChaosTheory123 (Feb 5, 2021)

accountmaker said:


> Wow.
> ALL of that is baseless speculation. If the damn mode took a PERCENTAGE of the opponent's life, than no matter who Naruto was facing, they wouldn't immediately die from that. Choji would sooner die from the shockwaves of Naruto's punch than the actual drainage effect if we wanna argue "percentage".
> 
> The only other way you could look at it is if we say that uses a percentage of NARUTO'S chakra, to drain life force relative to that percent. We have no way of knowing how much or how little chakra is at play here, so it's unquantifiable.
> ...


I’m not speculating that your life force is directly tied to stamina though?

One of this putz’s attacks has more energy behind it than the average clown would use in several life times

Time is an abstract human construct to interpret the world, inching someone closer to death on the other hand involves nomming all the energy they could ever spend. This isn’t hard. The mode does seem to suck, it’s worthless against most with comparable stamina and firepower, but it’ll be felt by those hilariously beneath him

That said, he’s still better off using his generic bullshit

It’s like a poorly implemented Drain attack from insert random JRPG here.


----------



## kayz (Feb 5, 2021)

accountmaker said:


> We have no way of measuring how much or how little it takes, because we have no reference. Ishiki could only maintain his half assed form for a few hours because Jigen was an interior vessel. We can't even accurately determine how the form "really" works, *because what Naruto was draining was Ishiki's remaining time "alive" within Jigen's body*.


I think the life drain thing is more like a consequence of the attack.
Kurama specifically said Naruto is transferring same chakra drain effect he is suffering to his opponent when contact is made. So definitely, it will be in proportion to Naruto's chakra


accountmaker said:


> Hell, we don't even know if it's "life drain" or "energy drain". FFS


In Narutoverse, there life force is very much dependent on their chakra/stamina.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Feb 5, 2021)

But Aizen is immortal so it doesn't matter.




Acno said:


> Since when is KS usefull when Naruto already countered Mindfuck?



KS is more like Kotoamatsukami or infinite tsukuyomi which Naruto can't defend against.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Disagree 1


----------



## kayz (Feb 5, 2021)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> But Aizen is immortal so it doesn't matter.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Since when is KS mind control like Koto and IT?


----------



## accountmaker (Feb 5, 2021)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> I’m not speculating that your life force is directly tied to stamina though?
> 
> One of this putz’s attacks has more energy behind it than the average clown would use in several life times
> 
> ...


My point exactly. 

and no, stamina/life force/energy can be completely different things in fiction. Before the chakra fruit BS no one but sage animals and Kaguya could even use chakra. It's a mess. The mode is currently irrelevant in an OBD setting, and we need more feats


----------



## GregSteve (Feb 5, 2021)

Scenario 2 is Naruto if theres no limit idk much about the other virgin for Scenario 1 though


----------



## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Feb 5, 2021)

kayz said:


> Since when is KS mind control like Koto and IT?



It's not mindcontrol but it is a mental attack that ranks above that in Bleach, Pepe's and As Nodt's skills are mindcontrol of different types and Byakuya was unaffected by both, then there's Shinji's Bankai which is also AoE mind control but it's stated it wouldn't work on Aizen or Ywach, who obviously can handle anything a Sternritter can do.

Yet KS from EoS Aizen worked on Ywach and negged his future vision.

There's also that the only genjutsu in Naruto that can do long term illusions on as many opponents as KS is the IT.

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## kayz (Feb 5, 2021)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> It's not mindcontrol but it is a mental attack that ranks above that in Bleach, Pepe's and As Nodt's skills are mindcontrol of different types and Byakuya was unaffected by both, then there's Shinji's Bankai which is also AoE mind control but it's stated it wouldn't work on Aizen or Ywach, who obviously can handle anything a Sternritter can do.
> 
> Yet KS from EoS Aizen worked on Ywach and negged his future vision.
> 
> There's also that the only genjutsu in Naruto that can do long term illusions on as many opponents as KS is the IT.


What you said in the previous reply should have been more descriptive in terms of what you were comparing KS and IT/Koto on.

And no, Pepe, As Nodt and Shinji's abilities are not straight up mind-control like IT and Koto. They can't be equated ability-wise or potency-wise.

Pepe's and As Nodt's abilities are Emotion manipulation. They don't affect the mind directly like IT/Koto to dominate the victim. Shinji's ability fucks up the senses, doesn't command the victim in any way.

Reactions: MAXIMUM 1


----------



## Alita (Feb 5, 2021)

Naruto can stomp aizen with his regular 6 paths sage mode. This is even more overkill.

Also this mode gives him a way to bypass durability through life drain so it's not completely useless by OBD standards.


----------



## Linvel (Feb 5, 2021)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> It's not mindcontrol but it is a mental attack that ranks above that in Bleach, Pepe's and As Nodt's skills are mindcontrol of different types and Byakuya was unaffected by both, then there's Shinji's Bankai which is also AoE mind control but it's stated it wouldn't work on Aizen or Ywach, who obviously can handle anything a Sternritter can do.
> 
> Yet KS from EoS Aizen worked on Ywach and negged his future vision.
> 
> There's also that the only genjutsu in Naruto that can do long term illusions on as many opponents as KS is the IT.


Obito controlled the Mizukage with his Genjutsu for most likely years.


----------



## Steven (Feb 5, 2021)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Yet KS from EoS Aizen worked on Ywach and negged his future vision.


That was before Yhwach used Almighty and massiv PIS


----------



## ClannadFan (Feb 5, 2021)

accountmaker said:


> Wow.
> ALL of that is baseless speculation. If the damn mode took a PERCENTAGE of the opponent's life, than no matter who Naruto was facing, they wouldn't immediately die from that. Choji would sooner die from the shockwaves of Naruto's punch than the actual drainage effect if we wanna argue "percentage".
> 
> The only other way you could look at it is if we say that Baryon uses a percentage of NARUTO'S chakra, to drain someone's life force relative to that percent. We have no way of knowing how much or how little chakra is at play here, so it's unquantifiable.
> ...


This is essentially what I was saying. But I did also add that it really only matter in the scenario that Naruto's Baryon mode was infinite, which the OP made scenario 2. So yeah in a longer dragged out fight with infinte Baryon mode, Naruto will definetly wear out an evenly matched opponent more than if he didnt have it. You just chose to ignore me because you didn't have a real respinse to give. Also with infinte Baryon mode he can use all his regular techniques.

Also you're also assuming alot of things without using feats. You automatically assumed the weakest possible interpetation of the form and expect everyone to go along with your interpretation. The fact of the matter is that it hasn't been fully explained yet, so really everything is just speculation. I'm not acting like my interpretation is law, like you are.


----------



## The World (Feb 5, 2021)

accountmaker said:


> Wow.
> ALL of that is baseless speculation. If the damn mode took a PERCENTAGE of the opponent's life, than no matter who Naruto was facing, they wouldn't immediately die from that. Choji would sooner die from the shockwaves of Naruto's punch than the actual drainage effect if we wanna argue "percentage".
> 
> The only other way you could look at it is if we say that Baryon uses a percentage of NARUTO'S chakra, to drain someone's life force relative to that percent. We have no way of knowing how much or how little chakra is at play here, so it's unquantifiable.
> ...


If boosting his abilities with nuclear fusion and leaving him in catatonic state after and the only real gain to it is to shave 30 mins off a persons life it would literally be the worst powerup in shonen history.

Occam's razor is that it shaves off life force based on percentage of the opponents power which makes it really hard to use in OBD setting though.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## accountmaker (Feb 6, 2021)

Enough is enough. I've had it with this mother fucking power up, from that mother fucking shounen.

@Masterblack06  Please ban Baryon Mode threads until we can come to a conclusion on how the damn thing works.


----------



## MShadows (Feb 6, 2021)

EoS Aizen is immortal and still has his KS illusions.

Naruto will die after hitting the air for a minute.

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## Keishin (Feb 6, 2021)

It s a completely useless modo. 
Even if you argue that it can "bypass durability" you just spend time wishing it worked like Grayroad or Respira


----------



## ClannadFan (Feb 6, 2021)

While I agree it's pretty useless in a verse battle setting normally, when the OP has a scneario where the mode is infinte makes it actually useful. Alot of the Baryon mode haters just like ignoring that. Maybe not as much against Aizen because he's immortal, but against other fighters around Naruto's lvl without immortality, infinte Baryon Mode is OP.


----------



## accountmaker (Feb 6, 2021)

MShadows said:


> EoS Aizen is immortal and still has his KS illusions.
> 
> Naruto will die after hitting the air for a minute.


Ban baryon mode threads


----------



## Hardcore (Feb 6, 2021)

MShadows said:


> EoS Aizen is immortal and still has his KS illusions.
> 
> Naruto will die after hitting the air for a minute.



kyuubi can arguably snap him out

or just take over naruto

ks vs nardoverse mind rape resistance methods is to this day pretty much inconclusive


----------



## Hardcore (Feb 6, 2021)

accountmaker said:


> Ban baryon mode threads



or just assume it to be eos nardo with a nerf that he dies after 1 minute

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Feb 6, 2021)

kayz said:


> What you said in the previous reply should have been more descriptive in terms of what you were comparing KS and IT/Koto on.
> 
> And no, Pepe, As Nodt and Shinji's abilities are not straight up mind-control like IT and Koto. They can't be equated ability-wise or potency-wise.
> 
> Pepe's and As Nodt's abilities are Emotion manipulation. They don't affect the mind directly like IT/Koto to dominate the victim. Shinji's ability fucks up the senses, doesn't command the victim in any way.



Shinji's Bankai exchange enemies with friends within the opponents mind and soul, Pepe just control people so it's self explanatory, As Nodt literally uses reiatsu to manipulate the brain of the oponent to trigger incstinctual fear, all of that are forms of mind control.





Linvel said:


> Obito controlled the Mizukage with his Genjutsu for most likely years.



They never explained how tho, he was supposed to be inmune because of his bijuu.




Acno said:


> That was before Yhwach used Almighty and massiv PIS



That the technique was used before Allmighty doesn't change that it worked while Ywach was at the peak of his power.





Alita said:


> Naruto can stomp aizen with his regular 6 paths sage mode. This is even more overkill.
> 
> Also this mode gives him a way to bypass durability through life drain so it's not completely useless by OBD standards.



OBD wise this form is weaker than Naruto from the Kaguya fight since it can't use jutsus, and that Naruto can't walk trough Aizen, deal with KS or stop the Hogyoku from making Aizen immortal.

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## Alita (Feb 7, 2021)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> OBD wise this form is weaker than Naruto from the Kaguya fight since it can't use jutsus, and that Naruto can't walk trough Aizen, deal with KS or stop the Hogyoku from making Aizen immortal.



Not it isn't. Naruto could have used jutsu but he did not need to. Any version of naruto after obtaining rikudou powers beats aizen cause his raw stats are higher and he has the firepower to kill him.


----------



## Steven (Feb 7, 2021)

Ofc can Naruto use jutsus in this mode

The Boruto Manga just diwngrade him.He never used his big jutsus for whatever reason


----------



## MarF (Feb 7, 2021)

Baryon Nardo can use Ninjutsu, but only in theory. The form burns through his chakra so quickly he keeled over after a brief Taijutsu fight. Every Shadow Clone he uses cuts his chakra in half, effectively doing the same to his already extremely short time limit.

His basic Rasengan are outright weaker than his CES Punches and Rasenshuriken variants use up a massive amount of chakra.


----------



## shade0180 (Feb 7, 2021)

MarF said:


> Baryon Nardo can use Ninjutsu, but only in theory. The form burns through his chakra so quickly he keeled over after a brief Taijutsu fight. Every Shadow Clone he uses cuts his chakra in half, effectively doing the same to his already extremely short time limit.
> 
> His basic Rasengan are outright weaker than his CES Punches and Rasenshuriken variants use up a massive amount of chakra.


Basically the form is shit.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Winner 1


----------



## kayz (Feb 7, 2021)

Acno said:


> Ofc can Naruto use jutsus in this mode
> 
> The Boruto Manga just diwngrade him.He never used his big jutsus for whatever reason


His Jutsus are of no use in front of Isshiki.


----------



## kayz (Feb 7, 2021)

The Baryon mode was very specific for that battle. Not worth it in any other situation.


----------



## Divell (Feb 7, 2021)

redboy776 said:


> Baryon Mode Naruto's true power is still a mystery.
> 
> The mode is able to surpass the strongest Otsutsuki's power and I ovepower him whitout the use of ninjutsu.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately is not possible. The form runs too fast if Naruto makes too many unnecessary movements. And only last a couple of minutes to begin with.


----------



## Yumi Zoro (Feb 7, 2021)

Divell said:


> Unfortunately is not possible. The form runs too fast if Naruto makes too many unnecessary movements. And only last a couple of minutes to begin with.



Just like ultra instinct lol.

Naruto need to find an angel to train his Baryon mode.


----------



## Divell (Feb 7, 2021)

Aizen may outlast him thanks to Kyoka Suigetsu and immortality but he can’t put Naruto down himself.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Divell (Feb 7, 2021)

redboy776 said:


> Just like ultra instinct lol.
> 
> Naruto need to find an angel to train his Baryon mode.


Yeah, a combination between Mugetsu and Ultra Instinct.

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## ClannadFan (Feb 8, 2021)

People sleep on Baryon Mode just because the only time Naruto used it, it was against someone much stronger than he was.

If Naruto used that mode against Sasuke, he'd destroy him instantly. That's a pretty solid power up honestly. I'd say it's very similar to the 8th Gate, which is odd that people choose to hate on this form due to its short length but I never hear people calling the 8th Gate a bad power up.

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Feb 8, 2021)

Alita said:


> Not it isn't. Naruto could have used jutsu but he did not need to. Any version of naruto after obtaining rikudou powers beats aizen cause his raw stats are higher and he has the firepower to kill him.



EoS can fight Ywach for a few minutes so no, Naruto can't beat him easily and nothing he has can kill Aizen if Mugetsu didn't. Naruto can't use jutsu effectively in this form, it just uses way too much chakra.


----------



## Alita (Feb 8, 2021)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> EoS can fight Ywach for a few minutes so no, Naruto can't beat him easily and nothing he has can kill Aizen if Mugetsu didn't. Naruto can't use jutsu effectively in this form, it just uses way too much chakra.



Yhwach was toying with him him. Plus all aizen could to to him despite that was stall with KS to give ichigo an opening. And last I was told bleach god tiers were downgraded back to just continent level they are no longer planet level. All naruto needs is a FRS to end him.


----------



## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Feb 8, 2021)

Alita said:


> Yhwach was toying with him him. Plus all aizen could to to him despite that was stall with KS to give ichigo an opening. And last I was told bleach god tiers were downgraded back to just continent level they are no longer planet level. All naruto needs is a FRS to end him.



There was no such downgrade and if anything they are going to become much stronger with the official release from the 3rd novel, Aizen bot tanked a Ywach attack that released him from the chair and didn't turn into mist from being punched, even if it did pierce his body.

But the important thing about him is the Hogyouku which tanked Mugetsu which should be the strongest attack seen in the manga.

There's also KS which mean Naruto will lose the moment he looks at Aizen.

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## Alita (Feb 8, 2021)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> There was no such downgrade and if anything they are going to become much stronger with the official release from the 3rd novel, Aizen bot tanked a Ywach attack that released him from the chair and didn't turn into mist from being punched, even if it did pierce his body.
> 
> But the important thing about him is the Hogyouku which tanked Mugetsu which should be the strongest attack seen in the manga.
> 
> There's also KS which mean Naruto will lose the moment he looks at Aizen.



No I'm certain there was. Aizen would only be continent level at most durability wise. Why would an attack from a weaker version of ichigo be the strongest in the manga?

Naruto should be able to break KS with partner method via kurama like how illusions are broken as a rule in the series. But even if it did work aizen would still be able to do nothing to him and eventually get nuked regardless.


----------



## MarF (Feb 8, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> People sleep on Baryon Mode just because the only time Naruto used it, it was against someone much stronger than he was.
> 
> If Naruto used that mode against Sasuke, he'd destroy him instantly. That's a pretty solid power up honestly. I'd say it's very similar to the 8th Gate, which is odd that people choose to hate on this form due to its short length but I never hear people calling the 8th Gate a bad power up.



Yes Naruto would ragdoll Sasuke in Baryon Mode, but the problem is that we can't really quantify the power up in any meaningful way. He still scales to the exact same 4,1 ZT in firepower and durability as 19 year old BSM Naruto. At best we can slap another + to the end of his stats, putting him at small planet level+++, rather than small planet++ level.

People don't hate 8th Gate Gai because both the fight and power up was done far better. The 8th Gate was hyped up as early as the CE arc, with Lee vs Gaara giving us a small taste for it and further building up anticipation for it over a decade of time with Gai's fights against Kisame.

It also looked far better.


*Spoiler*: __

Reactions: Neutral 1


----------



## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Feb 8, 2021)

Alita said:


> No I'm certain there was. Aizen would only be continent level at most durability wise. Why would an attack from a weaker version of ichigo be the strongest in the manga?
> 
> Naruto should be able to break KS with partner method via kurama like how illusions are broken as a rule in the series. But even if it did work aizen would still be able to do nothing to him and eventually get nuked regardless.



There was no downgrade, because there's no evidence for it that hasn't been debated and refuted 10 times already.

Mugetsu is equal or even stronger than EoS Ichigo since it uses all of Ichigo's power like a single attack.


The partner method is a weakness of regular genjutsu, KS doesn't have that since knowing about the ilusion is useless as are the zanpakuto spirits. This mode has a time limiter so Aizen just have to sit somewhere and wait for Naruto to lose the form and be KO'd.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Feb 8, 2021)

Hardcore said:


> kyuubi can arguably snap him out
> 
> or just take over naruto
> 
> ks vs nardoverse mind rape resistance methods is to this day pretty much inconclusive


If Zanpakutou couldn't, then kyuubi could probably not as well. Aren't bijuus weak to mind rape anyway?
Knowing you are in an illusion (KS) proved to be worthless eitherway.


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Feb 8, 2021)

Someone has to change their faces to nardo and hinata.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## kayz (Feb 8, 2021)

What's the general consensus on Bleach God and top tiers? 
Planet?Continental? A d who qualifies?


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Feb 8, 2021)

kayz said:


> What's the general consensus on Bleach God and top tiers?
> Planet?Continental? A d who qualifies?


I vaguely recall CFYOW novel stuff that stated there were worldwide earthquakes due to SK Yhwach trying to merge the worlds together or something 

Highest recorded magnitude ever too

So Yhwach, EoS Bankai Ichigo, and EoS Aizen to an extent


----------



## kayz (Feb 8, 2021)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> I vaguely recall CFYOW novel stuff that stated there were worldwide earthquakes due to SK Yhwach trying to merge the worlds together or something
> 
> Highest recorded magnitude ever too
> 
> So Yhwach, EoS Bankai Ichigo, and EoS Aizen to an extent


All right. Just want to get a good idea of were the verse sits currently.
What do we have on the Soul King? And his Prime version?


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Feb 8, 2021)

kayz said:


> All right. Just want to get a good idea of were the verse sits currently.
> What do we have on the Soul King? And his Prime version?


SK’s power was used to split the world into Hueco Mundo, Human World, and Soul Society


----------



## kayz (Feb 8, 2021)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> SK’s power was used to split the world into Hueco Mundo, Human World, and Soul Society


Okay. so Planet+ as the peak of the Verse's power displayed by Prime Soul King.
Does any other character scale to this feat?


----------



## Medjaynegus (Feb 9, 2021)

kayz said:


> What you said in the previous reply should have been more descriptive in terms of what you were comparing KS and IT/Koto on.
> 
> And no, Pepe, As Nodt and Shinji's abilities are not straight up mind-control like IT and Koto. They can't be equated ability-wise or potency-wise.
> 
> Pepe's and As Nodt's abilities are Emotion manipulation. They don't affect the mind directly like IT/Koto to dominate the victim. Shinji's ability fucks up the senses, doesn't command the victim in any way.


Pepe is mind control though


----------



## Medjaynegus (Feb 9, 2021)

Divell said:


> Aizen may outlast him thanks to Kyoka Suigetsu and immortality but he can’t put Naruto down himself.


Why cant he seal him or bfr him?


----------



## Medjaynegus (Feb 9, 2021)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> If Zanpakutou couldn't, then kyuubi could probably not as well. Aren't bijuus weak to mind rape anyway?
> Knowing you are in an illusion (KS) proved to be worthless eitherway.


Didn't naruto get trapped in genjutsu in the last?


----------



## Divell (Feb 9, 2021)

Medjaynegus said:


> Why cant he seal him or bfr him?


Why didn’t Aizen sealed Yhwach?


----------



## Medjaynegus (Feb 9, 2021)

Divell said:


> Why didn’t Aizen sealed Yhwach?


The almighty


----------



## Divell (Feb 9, 2021)

Medjaynegus said:


> The almighty


Kyoka Suigetsu. And what about Dangai Ichigo.


----------



## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Feb 9, 2021)

Divell said:


> Kyoka Suigetsu. And what about Dangai Ichigo.




You know that doesn't work on stronger opponents.


----------



## Steven (Feb 9, 2021)

Aizen can seal now other people?


----------



## Divell (Feb 9, 2021)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> You know that doesn't work on stronger opponents.


That is the point. If he can’t seal Yhwach or Dangai Ichigo what the fuck would he seal Naruto.


----------



## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Feb 9, 2021)

Divell said:


> That is the point. If he can’t seal Yhwach or Dangai Ichigo what the fuck would he seal Naruto.



That would depend on Naruto characters having feats against that kind of thing.


----------



## Divell (Feb 9, 2021)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> That would depend on Naruto characters having feats against that kind of thing.


Neither Ichigo nor Yhwach have feats against that kind of thing.


----------



## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Feb 9, 2021)

Divell said:


> Neither Ichigo nor Yhwach have feats against that kind of thing.



But reiatsu in general protects against those things if the difference is great enough.


----------



## Medjaynegus (Feb 9, 2021)

Acno said:


> Aizen can seal now other people?


He has access to bakudo


----------



## Medjaynegus (Feb 9, 2021)

Divell said:


> Neither Ichigo nor Yhwach have feats against that kind of thing.


Ichigos broken out of several bakudo without a problem.


----------



## Divell (Feb 9, 2021)

Medjaynegus said:


> Ichigos broken out of several bakudo without a problem.


And what makes you think Naruto won’t be able to do the same?




lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> But reiatsu in general protects against those things if the difference is great enough.


Yes, and Naruto is literally millions of times stronger.


----------



## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Feb 9, 2021)

Divell said:


> Yes, and Naruto is literally millions of times stronger.


 This is based on feats, it's it ever stated that chakra protects from sealing techniques?

Kaguya needed a specific seal for instance.


----------



## Divell (Feb 9, 2021)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> This is based on feats, it's it ever stated that chakra protects from sealing techniques?
> 
> Kaguya needed a specific seal for instance.


Obito broke from a Kage lv seal with pure brute force.


----------



## Medjaynegus (Feb 9, 2021)

Divell said:


> And what makes you think Naruto won’t be able to do the same?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, and Naruto is literally millions of times stronger.


This is a stronger version of aizen and what seals/bindings has naruto broken?


----------



## GregSteve (Feb 9, 2021)

Medjaynegus said:


> This is a stronger version of aizen and what seals/bindings has naruto broken?


Hinata's at least twice that we can confirm

Reactions: Lewd 1


----------



## Medjaynegus (Feb 9, 2021)

GregSteve said:


> Hinata's at least twice that we can confirm


Hinata used a binding on Naruto? Or she broke out of binding?

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## TYPE-Rey (Feb 9, 2021)

Shouldn't chakra be equalized with reyatsu by default in an OBD setting ?

Aside from that we have had examples of chakra overpowering seals or at least bypassing since Kakashi's seal didn't work so well on Sauce's curse mark after  he went full retard and went to join Orochimaru.

The mechanics clearly allow for equivalence here.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Informative 1


----------



## 1Person (Feb 10, 2021)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> They never explained how tho, he was supposed to be inmune because of his bijuu.


Perfect jins aren't immune to genjutsu, the just a have a partner to help them escape. High lvl genjutsu isn't easy to break even with outside help.


----------



## MarF (Feb 10, 2021)

Sasuke breaking out of Danzo's paralyzation seal with a chakra flex


*Spoiler*: __ 









Naruto easily breaking through a combination of Iruka's barrier and a Nara clan members shadow bind by activating his KCM


*Spoiler*: __

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Man from Shadow (Feb 10, 2021)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> I vaguely recall CFYOW novel stuff that stated there were worldwide earthquakes due to SK Yhwach trying to merge the worlds together or something



Isn't that still just an aftereffect of using Soul King's power? Which works by manipulating the flow of souls through the realms.

Or am I missing something?


----------



## accountmaker (Feb 10, 2021)

Medjaynegus said:


> Hinata used a binding on Naruto? Or she broke out of binding?


It's a penetration joke.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Feb 10, 2021)

Man from Shadow said:


> Isn't that still just an aftereffect of using Soul King's power? Which works by manipulating the flow of souls through the realms.
> 
> Or am I missing something?


just checked and it seemed to be a result of his death



> [“……therefore, it is unacceptable for the world to remain in its present condition, however people do not wish to return to the past, what the Dōshi* seeks is an escape to a new world——” ] _(* An officiating monk/priest/guru)_
> 
> “What’s that?”
> 
> ...


----------



## Man from Shadow (Feb 11, 2021)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> just checked and it seemed to be a result of his death



Right, but what I meant it is, Bleach verse will collapse if the balance of the souls is off.





Soul King ''merely'' keeps the balance of the souls in check, preventing worlds from being destroyed.



He isn't directly holding the worlds together, so even earthquakes produced from that wouldn't scale to Yhwach, no?


----------



## Medjaynegus (Feb 11, 2021)

Man from Shadow said:


> Right, but what I meant it is, Bleach verse will collapse if the balance of the souls is off.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No he is holding the world together, he split it in the first place.


----------



## Man from Shadow (Feb 11, 2021)

Medjaynegus said:


> No he is holding the world together, he split it in the first place.



In the first place, yes, but after that, he holds it via this mechanic. So I don't see how Yhwach would scale.

I'm not saying prime Soul King doesn't get whatever yield there is.


----------



## Medjaynegus (Feb 11, 2021)

Man from Shadow said:


> In the first place, yes, but after that, he holds it via this mechanic. So I don't see how Yhwach would scale.
> 
> I'm not saying prime Soul King doesn't get whatever yield there is.


No the world staying apart is still him, his reaitsu keeps it from coming back


----------



## Bobybobster (Feb 11, 2021)

Man from Shadow said:


> Right, but what I meant it is, Bleach verse will collapse if the balance of the souls is off.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


that was a mistranslation, soul king has nothing to do with the balance of souls. That's the shinigami's job.


----------



## SSMG (Feb 11, 2021)

Bobybobster said:


> that was a mistranslation, soul king has nothing to do with the balance of souls. That's the shinigami's job.



So then wouldn't this mean weakened SK gets the `holding the worlds together` scaling?


----------



## Medjaynegus (Feb 11, 2021)

Bobybobster said:


> that was a mistranslation, soul king has nothing to do with the balance of souls. That's the shinigami's job.


He very much has everything to do with it

Reactions: Neutral 1


----------



## Hardcore (Feb 11, 2021)

we already went through this not too long ago

it is agreed that only prime soul king is planet-level from this

there's simply too much unclear and questionable

eos aizen, ichigo, and ywach are continent level+

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 2 | Informative 1


----------



## Akira1993 (Feb 11, 2021)

But doesn't Aizen's immortality allow him to basically come back from being vaped and completely destroyed?

They literally stated that nothing can kill him in his verse.


----------



## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Feb 11, 2021)

Hardcore said:


> we already went through this not too long ago
> 
> it is agreed that only prime soul king is planet-level from this
> 
> ...



Ywach literally had most of it's power and was able to replicate all his feats, then was defeated by Ichigo at like 25% of his full power,


----------



## Man from Shadow (Feb 11, 2021)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Ywach literally had most of it's power and was able to replicate all his feats, then was defeated by Ichigo at like 25% of his full power,


Ukitake also held everything in place, but he obviously doesn't get the scaling.

Soul King got pierced by Shikai Ichigo and was basically powerless, it's obvious he isn't as strong as he used to be.


----------



## Medjaynegus (Feb 11, 2021)

Man from Shadow said:


> Ukitake also held everything in place, but he obviously doesn't get the scaling.
> 
> Soul King got pierced by Shikai Ichigo and was basically powerless, it's obvious he isn't as strong as he used to be.


Mimihagi held the reio in place via stagnation.


----------



## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Feb 11, 2021)

Man from Shadow said:


> Ukitake also held everything in place, but he obviously doesn't get the scaling.
> 
> Soul King got pierced by Shikai Ichigo and was basically powerless, it's obvious he isn't as strong as he used to be.



No, Ukitake was only a vessel for Mimihagi which stopped the eartquakes by using it's power to stop change on the linchpin.

The durability of the linchpin isn't related since it can't use it's power willingly, proved in that it still gave an absurd power up to Ywach and made it so he couldn't by harmed by Ichigo until he used Getsuga mixed with Cero.


----------



## KennethLT (Feb 12, 2021)

Isn’t this an extremely horrible match up? Not because of power but because Aizen actually is immortal, along with KS.

on top of being immortal, he Keeps evolving his power when he gets shredded. So if this new form of naruto is somehow strong enough to obliterate him, he’ll comeback even stronger.

Reactions: Disagree 1


----------



## Man from Shadow (Feb 12, 2021)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> No, Ukitake was only a vessel for Mimihagi which stopped the eartquakes by using it's power to stop change on the linchpin.


Same Mimihagi who was outright stated to be weaker than base Yhwach?


----------



## Medjaynegus (Feb 12, 2021)

Man from Shadow said:


> Same Mimihagi who was outright stated to be weaker than base Yhwach?


Yhwach has the almighty on, so we have no idea how he compares to base Yhwach


----------



## Man from Shadow (Feb 12, 2021)

Almighty does not change his stats though, it ''only'' gives him recognition and reality warping.


----------



## Medjaynegus (Feb 12, 2021)

Man from Shadow said:


> Almighty does not change his stats though, it ''only'' gives him recognition and reality warping.


Nope it does change his stats,  he increased in speed and power.


----------



## 1Person (Feb 12, 2021)

KennethLT said:


> Isn’t this an extremely horrible match up? Not because of power but because Aizen actually is immortal, along with KS.
> 
> on top of being immortal, he Keeps evolving his power when he gets shredded. So if this new form of naruto is somehow strong enough to obliterate him, he’ll comeback even stronger.


Aizen can still be KO'd/immobilized. No idea how KS would interact with the byakugan and isshiki's dojutsu but I doubt it could properly fool them.


----------



## Medjaynegus (Feb 12, 2021)

1Person said:


> Aizen can still be KO'd/immobilized. No idea how KS would interact with the byakugan and isshiki's dojutsu but I doubt it could properly fool them.


It's fooled people with similar visions so I'm not sure why it wouldn't.

It takes a lot to immobilize him and I doubt even Naruto could pull it off. Given the bs he survived in the end he was still fine.


----------



## Bobybobster (Feb 12, 2021)

Man from Shadow said:


> Same Mimihagi who was outright stated to be weaker than base Yhwach?


mimihagi only stabilized things by connecting the two halfs of the sk's body, not by itself. Otherwise it wouldn't need to travel to the royal realm.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## 1Person (Feb 13, 2021)

Medjaynegus said:


> It's fooled people with similar visions so I'm not sure why it wouldn't.
> 
> It takes a lot to immobilize him and I doubt even Naruto could pull it off. Given the bs he survived in the end he was still fine.


I only remember it fooling reiatsu sensing and (temporarily) the almighty which never really had any illusion countering feats to begin with.

He was KO'd by Nanana screwing with his reiatsu flow and his regen isn't instant. I think destroying his head or blowing apart his body enough could KO him or at least take him a while to regen.

Isshiki's got the rods that disrupt and drain energy, a big ol' sealing pot, and cubes strong enough to impair naruto and sasuke


----------



## Medjaynegus (Feb 13, 2021)

1Person said:


> I only remember it fooling reiatsu sensing and (temporarily) the almighty which never really had any illusion countering feats to begin with.
> 
> He was KO'd by Nanana screwing with his reiatsu flow and his regen isn't instant. I think destroying his head or blowing apart his body enough could KO him or at least take him a while to regen.
> 
> Isshiki's got the rods that disrupt and drain energy, a big ol' sealing pot, and cubes strong enough to impair naruto and sasuke


He was sealed and nanana admitted he could only do it becaus.eof.said seal, jell he was still conscious he just couldn't move. Reaitsu sensing is equivalent to dojutsu like Byakugan and even better in some cases

Nah, his regen isn't slow, after mugetsu he started to heal. Instant isn't a set time, it's fast enough to keep in conscious and continue to fight.


----------



## 1Person (Feb 13, 2021)

Medjaynegus said:


> He was sealed and nanana admitted he could only do it becaus.eof.said seal, jell he was still conscious he just couldn't move. Reaitsu sensing is equivalent to dojutsu like Byakugan and even better in some cases
> 
> Nah, his regen isn't slow, after mugetsu he started to heal. Instant isn't a set time, it's fast enough to keep in conscious and continue to fight.


Nanana said the seal made it easier but everyone's reiatsu has some holes that he could observe and force open with his morphine pattern. 

I don't know about better, reiatsu sensing still opperates mostly the same as chakra sensing. KS hasn't fooled anyone that can see details at microscopic level or have omnidirectional x-ray vision. Plus his ability to see fate. These are all things aizen wouldn't know isshiki is able to see either.

It definitely took him a few minutes to stick his halves back together. After he was bisected he layed there motionless for a while. Then once he was up and talking to ichigo he still looked injured. Imagine if he was hit by something that did more than leaving to halves of his body completely intact. Like be crushed or dismembered, it would probably take much longer than a few minutes to get back into fighting condition.


----------



## Medjaynegus (Feb 13, 2021)

1Person said:


> Nanana said the seal made it easier but everyone's reiatsu has some holes that he could observe and force open with his morphine pattern.
> 
> I don't know about better, reiatsu sensing still opperates mostly the same as chakra sensing. KS hasn't fooled anyone that can see details at microscopic level or have omnidirectional x-ray vision. Plus his ability to see fate. These are all things aizen wouldn't know isshiki is able to see either.
> 
> It definitely took him a few minutes to stick his halves back together. After he was bisected he layed there motionless for a while. Then once he was up and talking to ichigo he still looked injured. Imagine if he was hit by something that did more than leaving to halves of his body completely intact. Like be crushed or dismembered, it would probably take much longer than a few minutes to get back into fighting condition.


Reaitsu sensing can let blind people see, see through other dimensions, and more. Bleach characters can see invisible things for miles away.

It didn't take him a few minutes, we have no solid time frame on anything so it socnjecture. When kisuke tried to hrun him from inside he healed immediately into his cocoon form.

Thats not what nanana said. The seal made the holes not his ability, and him also being immobile made it easier for nanana to affect him. Even then its impressive he is still conscious and wasn't killed from said ability or visibly injured.


----------



## Devil_Jin (Feb 13, 2021)

KS and how it works on it's own verse is overrated comapared to one where manipulation of mind and senses and countering it is one of the only three basic elements that ninjas learn

At worst even if unable to counter it naruto can use his sensing (energy sensing if they're equalized or emotion sensing)  and starts fisting aizen blind


----------



## Medjaynegus (Feb 13, 2021)

Devil_Jin said:


> KS and how it works on it's own verse is overrated comapared to one where manipulation of mind and senses and countering it is one of the only three basic elements that ninjas learn
> 
> At worst even if unable to counter it naruto can use his sensing (energy sensing if they're equalized or emotion sensing)  and starts fisting aizen blind


Bleach has other examples of sense and manipulation and people have broken out of said stuff.

Everyone in bleach has energy sensing, why would this work at all


----------



## Devil_Jin (Feb 13, 2021)

Medjaynegus said:


> Bleach has other examples of sense and manipulation and people have broken out of said stuff.
> 
> Everyone in bleach has energy sensing, why would this work at all


The only manipulation that works fundamentally the same as genjutsu in bleach is KS. Idk if the novels have Asspulled sth else.

Nevertheless the fact that genjutsu is much more prominent in naruto with better feats of counters doesn't change

The same here. Energy sensing differs in different verses or hell even in the same verse. In naruto characters need to mold chakra and specifically switch it to a sensory type and they keep track of the target by special chakra signatures on the target.  and that's just one way. Just because KS negs sensing in-verse doesn't mean it negs everything else

Especially not emotions sensing

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Medjaynegus (Feb 13, 2021)

Devil_Jin said:


> The only manipulation that works fundamentally the same as genjutsu in bleach is KS. Idk if the novels have Asspulled sth else.
> 
> Nevertheless the fact that genjutsu is much more prominent in naruto with better feats of counters doesn't change
> 
> ...


Bleach characters sensing works similar and they can sense emotions as well. There are other illusionary zanpakuto, abilities, and kido that have shown up in bleach. If anything sensing in bleach is much more robust adn casual given the fact all spiritual beings have access rather than only a select few characters in naruto having access.


----------



## Devil_Jin (Feb 13, 2021)

Medjaynegus said:


> Bleach characters sensing works similar and they can sense emotions as well. There are other illusionary zanpakuto, abilities, and kido that have shown up in bleach. If anything sensing in bleach is much more robust adn casual given the fact all spiritual beings have access rather than only a select few characters in naruto having access.


Way to ignore everything in the post

And Lmao at bleach characters having emotion sensing.  I really hope you're not talking about bleach characters feeling bloodlust and applying that here  

But either what's needed to be said is done


----------



## Medjaynegus (Feb 13, 2021)

Devil_Jin said:


> Way to ignore everything in the post
> 
> And Lmao at bleach characters having emotion sensing.  I really hope you're not talking about bleach characters feeling bloodlust and applying that here
> 
> But either what's needed to be said is done


I didnt miss anything and im referring to other things beside bloodlust. I address other illusion based abilities being present besides ks.


----------



## OrlandoSky (Feb 13, 2021)

Can Naruto still bijuudama in his new ssj form? If so he just vaporizes the whole landscape they're fighting on and Aizen dies regardless of hiding behind illusions.


----------



## ClannadFan (Feb 13, 2021)

OrlandoSky said:


> Can Naruto still bijuudama in his new ssj form? If so he just vaporizes the whole landscape their fighting and Aizen dies regardless of hiding behind illusions.


He would be able to in scenario 2 with no timelimit. I'd argue he could even with the timelimit, but he would likely use up all his chakra.


----------



## kayz (Feb 15, 2021)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Shinji's Bankai exchange enemies with friends within the opponents mind and soul, Pepe just control people so it's self explanatory, As Nodt literally uses reiatsu to manipulate the brain of the oponent to trigger incstinctual fear, all of that are forms of mind control.


Of the three you mentioned (Shinju, As Nodt, Pepe), only Pepe's ability can be considered close to mind control.
However, Pepe love attacks are a form different from Narutoverse's mind control since they manipulate emotions directly to achieve a pseudo-mind control. This is seen in Byakuga resisting Pepe's love attack which makes Pepe wonder if he has no _*love*_. This shows that emotion (love) is key to whatever mind manipulation he gains over his opponent. I very well doubt if that's same for Narutoverse's mind control.
Will Byakuga resist sharingan genjutsu because he has no love?

As Nodt schrift is still illusion. Basically what Sasuke did to Sai. It's not controlling one's consciousness completely, just altering their perception to instill fear. The victims actions and reactions are totally their own.

Same with Shinji's Bankai, still illusions. Affecting perception of enemies and friends. And still no reason to believe it's not as potent as KS, at least based on it's hype.


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Feb 15, 2021)

Considering that sensing in bleach makes even blind people see, makes it better than most sensing in naruto. Also lets you see reiatsu, ala byakugan.
So they have sensing that could probably neg something like tsukuyomi, but still got fucked by KS.

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Feb 15, 2021)

OrlandoSky said:


> Can Naruto still bijuudama in his new ssj form? If so he just vaporizes the whole landscape they're fighting on and Aizen dies regardless of hiding behind illusions.


Aizen could open portals, and even then, he could just distort narutos perception of time.


----------



## 1Person (Feb 15, 2021)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> Considering that sensing in bleach makes even blind people see, makes it better than most sensing in naruto. Also lets you see reiatsu, ala byakugan.
> So they have sensing that could probably neg something like tsukuyomi, but still got fucked by KS.


Regular sensing in naruto already does that. Tobitake has his eyes constantly bandaged, madara was running around just fine without eyeballs, and all of the moon otsutsuki are blind.


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Feb 15, 2021)

1Person said:


> Regular sensing in naruto already does that. Tobitake has his eyes constantly bandaged, madara was running around just fine without eyeballs, and all of the moon otsutsuki are blind.


We don't really know how he move, he could just as well have very good hearing.
Or kishi just made a blunder, an easy explanation.

Considering good sensors have to concentrate hard enough that battling anyone is not really viable.


You also need to turn your chakra into sensory mode to be able to do it in the first place.

Even for tobirama, he has to actively knead chakra to be able to sense chakra, which would obviously hamper anyone if used on combat.


So far, the only ones shown to be able to sense chakra while fighting are byakugan users (that's why they were especially hyped back in P1 anyway)

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## OrlandoSky (Feb 15, 2021)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> Aizen could open portals, and even then, he could just distort narutos perception of time.


Opening portals doesn't really help when you get glass-floored by nuke's shockwave before it opens.


----------



## 1Person (Feb 15, 2021)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> We don't really know how he move, he could just as well have very good hearing.
> Or kishi just made a blunder, an easy explanation.
> 
> Considering good sensors have to concentrate hard enough that battling anyone is not really viable.
> ...


One character might be an oversight, we're talking about a lot more than that. Madara and toneri make it very clear that skilled sensors can opperate just fine without eyes.

Everyone in the verse can passively sense chakra to some degree if its potent enough but sensors can become extra acute by using sensory chakra. Yeah your average sensor needs to focus to pinpoint distant opponents but that doesn't mean they can't fight while sensing(as we've seen multiple times). 

C had already sensed Karin earlier but to pinpoint her especially while she's trying not to be found would take much more effort. 

The same thing happens in bleach where we see characters stop and close their eyes when trying to find someone more accurately. 

I've always interpreted the scene as tobirama shit talking madara and just pretending not to know he's there.  Anyways, in a fight he'd obviously be molding chakra.

Sage mode users, mu, madara, ino, literally every single moon otsutsuki, santa yamanaka etc can all sense while fighting.


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Feb 15, 2021)

1Person said:


> One character might be an oversight, we're talking about a lot more than that. Madara and toneri make it very clear that skilled sensors can opperate just fine without eyes.


Good hearing and god tier perception let's you do that.
They have reactions 99.9% of the verse doesn't have. 
Technically, it's just as efficient, just not without actual energy sensing.


1Person said:


> Everyone in the verse can passively sense chakra to some degree if its potent enough but sensors can become extra acute by using sensory chakra. Yeah your average sensor needs to focus to pinpoint distant opponents but that doesn't mean they can't fight while sensing(as we've seen multiple times).


See above


1Person said:


> C had already sensed Karin earlier but to pinpoint her especially while she's trying not to be found would take much more effort.


Definitely would not hinder reiatsu sensing in bleach, as seeing reiatsu to them is second nature. Ichigo, an actual noob, managed to do so, moments after he was blinded by gujou.


1Person said:


> The same thing happens in bleach where we see characters stop and close their eyes when trying to find someone more accurately.
> 
> I've always interpreted the scene as tobirama shit talking madara and just pretending not to know he's there.  Anyways, in a fight he'd obviously be molding chakra.
> 
> Sage mode users, mu, madara, ino, literally every single moon otsutsuki, santa yamanaka etc can all sense while fighting.


It's been years since I've read naruto, i don't remember any instance of them doing so.

Eitherway, KS managed to fool Almighty. That's not something that can be replicated by any genjutsu in Naruto.


----------



## Kisaitaparadise (Feb 15, 2021)

Aizen no diff KS

Reactions: Disagree 1


----------

