# Yamato vs Hebi Sasuke



## Luftwaffles (Apr 21, 2013)

Location: Island Turtle
Distance: 40 meters
Knowledge: None for Sasuke, possibly Konoha intel for Yamato
Mindset: IC
Restrictions: Manda

Before my other match gets plagued with Yamato vs Hebi, I've decided to make a new match. Discuss.


----------



## CoockiesAndMilf (Apr 21, 2013)

*Hebi Sasuke is way out of Yamato's league, a weaker version of Sasuke fodderized Yamato while fighting other people.
Bad matchup.*


----------



## joshhookway (Apr 21, 2013)

Flower world gg


----------



## Magician (Apr 21, 2013)

1000 hands, GG.


----------



## Bonly Jr. (Apr 21, 2013)

Yamato cannot use Flower tree world or 1K Hands, lmao.

Hebi Sasuke buttfucks him, easily.


----------



## Cord (Apr 21, 2013)

Along with Sasuke's reunion with his former team mates, we've also seen how they engaged in a bout and how Sasuke clearly dominated that. The same scenario is likely to happen here, in my opinion. Yamato being defeated back then just because he _wasn't going all out_ means next to nothing as Sasuke himself hasn't even displayed the full extent of his skill, acquired during that 2 year- training period. Yamato would've still died anyway had Orochimaru not intervened (preventing Sasuke from demolishing the team with Kirin). Furthermore, Sasuke never even considered using any sort of offensive _Genjustu_ during that time. Should he ever use it here, Yamato might just end up having a similar fate with that of Sai. That's more than enough opportunity for Sasuke to capitalize and finish him off. 

And that's all said without even accounting the abilities he obtained when he absorbed Orochimaru. You're kidding yourself if you think that a Jōnin who probably isn't even as strong as Kakashi and without having any special ability outside of Mokuton usage- is beating Sasuke who isn't half the person he was, when he killed a dangerous Akatsuki member and gave Itachi a run for his money.

Beginning of Part 2 Sasuke vs Yamato would be a fairer match I think.


----------



## Magician (Apr 21, 2013)

Cordelia said:


> Beginning of Part 2 Sasuke vs Yamato would be a fairer match I think.



We already saw that fight. Sasuke shit-stomped.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Apr 21, 2013)

Copy pasting.



> Sasuke was far & above Yamato. I'd love to know how you could possibly explain otherwise.



I wasn't even thinking of the cursed mark.  CS1 or CS2 would likely have been out of Yamato's ability to handle in that scenario.  The Kirin without prep is kind of lol.

As for my reasons, I was just thinking that Yamato saw what Yamato was capable of vs all of them, and figured that if he quit playing around as well, he could handle it.  After all, Yamato was taking Sai, Sakura, and Naruto three on one as well, and winning, while still only going hard enough to just test them and their teamwork.  He even gave the impression that he was  with them.  Two of them had been chunin trained by Sannin, and Sai was a ROOT operative who was introduced by taking on Shikamaru and Naruto at the same time.  With Shakimaru and Naruto fighting seriously to capture, and with Sai just kind of dicking around to see if Naruto was even decent. 

Certainly none of them were weak, so messing around with them is sort of a big deal, and the impression that he was greater than all of them was also warranted by him also being the replacement Kakashi chose to take on the Sasuke mission in his stead, as well as casually shoving them all in a  and scaring them straight with mean faces.It was also still very much the era of Kage>>Jonin>>Chunin>>>Genin, so his statement had more weight than it would even if it was said just a few arcs later.

So despite Yamato's defense oriented style, the manga gave the impression beyond just that statement, that he could fair pretty well against Sasuke if he went all out, even if Sasuke would still win.  Yamato just never had a real fight were we got to know his definite limits, while Sasuke continued showing us more and more, so it just became more dubious that would be the case.  In the end we don't know.

------------------------------------

*Match:*

Yamato could actually beat any Sasuke who can't summon Manda by just going deep underground and attacking him with Mokuton.  Sasuke's longest moves can't reach Yamato, and Yamato's moves have greater range and AOE.  Meaning he can pretty much use large scale terrain muckery to attack Sasuke with impunity, and send Mokubunshin to meld into his own Mokuton to ambush Sasuke.  (Sharingan would see all wood as having Yamato chakra)  If he got too tired, he could just take a nap.  In fact, Yamato never has to leave, since he has his own water source, can grow his own food, and can even make a house with hidden air vent to take naps while Mokubunshins keep wearing down Sasuke.  

I don't think it's IC for him to fight that way, and it wouldn't have been an applicable strategy in the Hebi scenario because of the Orochimaru time limit anyway.  So I don't think the fight would ever play out like that in the manga and rarely if ever in a BD thread.  But in potentiality, he could win cheaply just by being the king of Sasuke's glaring weak point.  

Sasuke can kind of flow his nagashi if Yamato is near the surface, and he can try to stab the ground with CS2 eiso, but Yamato can just be deep enough so it can't reach, and Sasuke has no proper sensing to even locate him.  Sharingan can see underground to an extent, but it's not the byakugan.



> Other than the snake meat shields & Oral Rebirth, there's no difference.



The databook highly implies that a lot of Sasuke's speed came from the white snake absorption.  I don't know how faithfully Kishi kept to that, if ever, though.



Krippy said:


> where was this stated?






Csdabest said:


> Maybe cuz its just me. It seems that it was directed at the Curse Seal power which increased his speed. CS augemented Sasuke enough to get behind Itachi clone, was insanely fast with his movement speed to interrupt Itachi hand seals. And dodge amaterasu.
> 
> [Godlike speed]
> Adding up to his innate talent, Orochimaru's strength — "cursed seal" included — granted him a power a normal shinobi could not even dream of. What one may find especially interesting is his speed, that has stood out ever since he was a genin. When that godlike speed is supported by Sharingan's reflexes, anyone standing before Sasuke is unworthy of existence.
> ...




What he said.  They're sort of lumped.  Cursed seal is Orochimaru's power, and like how Kabuto got stronger when he absorbed more Orochimaru power, it would make sense that Sasuke would too when he got him.  Taka did seem slower to me, but it's nothing definite.


----------



## Rocky (Apr 21, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> But in potentiality, he could win cheaply just by being the king of Sasuke's glaring weak point.
> 
> Sasuke can kind of flow his nagashi if Yamato is near the surface, and he can try to stab the ground with CS2 eiso, but Yamato can just be deep enough so it can't reach, and Sasuke has no proper sensing to even locate him.  Sharingan can see underground to an extent, but it's not the byakugan.



If it really comes to the point where Yamato camps underground and Sasuke is at a complete loss for ways to actually hit him, he'll just slam Kirin into the ground.

I highly doubt Yamato is going so far underground as to escape not only the area of effect of the technique, but the immensely powerful lighting bolt that will travel even further underground and fry anything in its path.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Apr 21, 2013)

Rocky said:


> If it really comes to the point where Yamato camps underground and Sasuke is at a complete loss for ways to actually hit him, he'll just slam Kirin into the ground.
> 
> 
> I highly doubt Yamato is going so far underground as to escape not only the area of effect of the technique, but the immensely powerful lighting bolt that will travel even further underground and fry anything in its path.



Well, with knowledge on Kirin he could.  

But more that Kirin takes prep time, and it was exhausting for Sasuke to use the CS2 dragon bombs to prep it even with a forest fire of Ameterasu helping him heat the atmosphere.  I don't doubt his ability to prep it on his own, because honestly, developing a technique you need your opponent to set up for seems retarded.  But it's going to be more exhausting for him, and when ninja exhaust their chakra, they slow down dramatically.  

So yes, Kirin can blow the top off a mountain, and that would probably reach Yamato, but if Sasuke is in a barely mobile state when it's ready, like he was against Itachi, he get Mokuton crushed or spiked before he pulls it off.  Especially since even after the fireballs hit the sky, he needs to wait for the clouds to form, and that's a period where he's vulnerable.  

If he actually can do Kirin without prep, like Kishi implied in the Yamato fight, then I doubt it's anything as bunker busting as what he showed against Itachi.  Otherwise he could have just dropped Kirin on the building before he walked in and called it game, and not spent the entire match prepping it.


----------



## Rocky (Apr 21, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Well, with knowledge on Kirin he could.
> 
> But more that Kirin takes prep time, and it was exhausting for Sasuke to use the CS2 dragon bombs to prep it even with a forest fire of Ameterasu helping him heat the atmosphere.  I don't doubt his ability to prep it on his own, because honestly, developing a technique you need your opponent to set up for seems retarded.  But it's going to be more exhausting for him, and when ninja exhaust their chakra, they slow down dramatically.
> 
> ...



Well, Sasuke can fly. While he's airborne, Yamato can't _do_ anything. Sasuke would be free to prepare Kirin without opening himself up.

And Just saying, Oral Rebirth was the massively tiring technique in Sasuke's arsenal, not Gōryūka.


----------



## tanman (Apr 21, 2013)

Sasuke really doesn't need Kirin or his cursemark to win this match.
At 40 meters, Sasuke will close the gap in an instant and force Yamato into CQC where he has no chance.


----------



## Krippy (Apr 21, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> What he said.  They're sort of lumped.  Cursed seal is Orochimaru's power, and like how Kabuto got stronger when he absorbed more Orochimaru power, it would make sense that Sasuke would too when he got him.  Taka did seem slower to me, but it's nothing definite.



I understand that Sasuke gets a speed boost from his Juin, but that paragraph was too loosely worded to convince me that absorbing Orochimaru himself made him any faster

Current Sasuke should be as fast as Hebi Sauce was with his Juin imo


----------



## KeyofMiracles (Apr 21, 2013)

Pretty sure Pre-Hebi Sasuke took a shit on Team Yamato already....


----------



## Empathy (Apr 21, 2013)

Pre-Hebi Sasuke would've made a closer match. Hebi Sasuke is well into the Kage-level and I don't even think it's close to the lower end of the spectrum. You'd be hard-pressed making a case for Yamato being the same (Kage-level alone is probably a Sisyphean task).


----------



## DaVizWiz (Apr 21, 2013)

Yamato has yet to show any underground hunting ability. Kakashi, without a logical explanation, somehow manages to attack his opponents whilst blindly digging underground. He's able to do this, while also shown to be useless in Hidden mist. Derp. Kakashi, Madara and Pre-skip Naruto are the only ones who have shown this ability.

Assuming Yamato can accurately attack his opponent from underground without a tracking beacon on Sasuke's back is a baseless notion.

Assuming Sasuke stands there at 40m allowing Yamato to dig underground without blitzing in or firing several dozen sniper shurikens, or a Kage bushin Chidori shuriken is a baseless notion. Can't forget those Chidori spears. He also has katons which vary in size and speed considerably. Along with some fun explosive weaponry. Setting up the baddest THUNDERNUKE in the manga.

Yamato isn't digging. 

Assuming Sasuke doesn't put him under Genjutsu before Yamato thinks of digging underground is also a baseless notion.

Hebi Sauce also has the option of camping inside white-snake defense until the former appears- as tanking Deidara's C1 birds clearly makes any variant of offense used by Yamato pointless.

In short, Yamato is clearly outclassed by a ridiculously versatile Kage level Hebi Sauce, and whole arsenal is immediately diffused by the simple element Sasuke has mastered.

This thread... failed.


----------



## Cord (Apr 21, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Yamato could actually beat any Sasuke who can't summon Manda by just going deep underground and attacking him with Mokuton.  Sasuke's longest moves can't reach Yamato, and Yamato's moves have greater range and AOE.
> 
> I don't think it's IC for him to fight that way, and it wouldn't have been an applicable strategy in the Hebi scenario because of the Orochimaru time limit anyway.  So I don't think the fight would ever play out like that in the manga and rarely if ever in a BD thread.  But in potentiality, he could win cheaply just by being the king of Sasuke's glaring weak point.



The same argument is very much applicable in Deidara's case- _fly miles away_ from Sasuke's grasp and bombard him with exploding clays before the elemental disadvantage can be exploited. Except that we've already seen them fight and _that's_ not exactly how it went. I'm not understanding how staying out of Sasuke's range rather than confronting him up close, makes Yamato his _'glaring weak point'_ if such kind of maneuver _hasn't been_ and _likely will never be_ used in a canon fight to begin with. At least not in his battle with Deidara and yeah, _Mindset_ would be the most acceptable reason. 

You said it yourself actually, but I just don't get why you still seem to be arguing for Yamato's case despite that.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Apr 22, 2013)

Cordelia said:


> The same argument is very much applicable in Deidara's case- _fly miles away_ from Sasuke's grasp and bombard him with exploding clays before the elemental disadvantage can be exploited. Except that we've already seen them fight and _that's_ not exactly how it went. I'm not understanding how staying out of Sasuke's range rather than confronting him up close, makes Yamato his _'glaring weak point'_ if such kind of maneuver _hasn't been_ and _likely will never be_ used in a canon fight to begin with. At least not in his battle with Deidara and yeah, _Mindset_ would be the most acceptable reason.
> 
> You said it yourself actually, but I just don't get why you still seem to be arguing for Yamato's case despite that.



Sorry, I'll quit cluttering this thread.  The confusion is because I'm talking about two different Yamatos.  

My take on the match with NBD Yamato vs NBD Sasuke is that Yamato does okay against Sasuke but dies.  

-------------

The scenario presented to Rocky is very much OoC, and is what would be called KC Yamato vs Sasuke.  It's just to show that Yamato's _skill set_ has the theoretical potential to be really annoying to Sasuke's skill set, and I talked about it because he asked how Yamato could _possibly_ compete with any Sasuke.  Well, that's how, even if I don't think he will fight that way outside of a KC match.  To have to resort to boss summons and kirin to beat a guy tiers below you shows that they do in fact have a lot of power of a different kind.  

That power is respected in the manga, too, even if it won't be abused to troll Sasuke.  Kakashi asked Yamato to tail the Raikage and his bodyguards because he could do it without getting discovered or otherwise smashed by the speediest smasher in the manga, and Yamato himself said his actual specialty is in reconnaissance.  Stealth, terrain manipulation, and indirectness are all really good methods for fighting direct force, and Sasuke's power is is pretty much being a bazooka.


----------



## Thunder (Apr 22, 2013)

Having spent some time in the KC, I can understand where the Pirate is coming from.

In the hands of a decent strategist KC Yamato could definitely win, or at least do a lot better verses Hebi Sasuke than his manga self. With no storyline to restrict the characters their full (theoretical) potential becomes a lot more obvious.


----------



## Punished Pathos (Apr 22, 2013)

Wtf am I reading?
Seriously, you hate Sasuke that much to believe that Yamato could defeat Hebi Sasuke?!


Pre Hebi Sasuke stomped the whole team. 

I see nothing but fictional excuses to support Yamato.
You have to be shitting me, if any of you think Yamato would win against Hebi Sasuke, who is stronger than the former Sasuke who fodderized Yamato before.
Yamato is a complete joke, stealth skills?
Sasuke has a sharingan.
Sasuke has better intelligence feats.
The circumstances of Sasuke having no intel and Yamato having some intel means squat.
Sasuke never seen Yamato before and he clearly was winning the fight in manga.
What is Yamato, Jounin level?
I don't need to mention Kirin, do I?
Pre Hebi Sasuke was at least Low Kage level, Hebi Sasuke a solid Kage level.


----------



## PlasticGear (Apr 22, 2013)

Thunder said:


> Having spent some time in the KC, I can understand where the Pirate is coming from.
> 
> In the hands of a decent strategist KC Yamato could definitely win, or at least do a lot better verses Hebi Sasuke than his manga self. With no storyline to restrict the characters their full (theoretical) potential becomes a lot more obvious.



Basically this.

Yamato has the potential to beat the Sauce when used by a good strategist. He has the right tools. 

However, OP's stipulations are IC and have nothing to do with the KC here. Yamato starts with some fodder-grade Mokutons, Sauce closes in, CQC ensues and Yamato ends up getting fodderized.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Apr 22, 2013)

I guess I did a poor job articulating myself if people are taking home the message that I think Yamato wins this match up and that I hate Sasuke.

See what Thunder and Plasticgear said.

....is that a picture of Sakuya next to Dio?  Repped.


----------



## Cord (Apr 22, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> I guess I did a poor job articulating myself if people are taking home the message that I think Yamato wins this match up and that I hate Sasuke.
> 
> See what Thunder said.



I got the wrong impression the first time I've read your OP (since I didn't know jack about the KC and why it's being brought up here). But I understand now that you've explained it, so you're fine.


----------



## PlasticGear (Apr 22, 2013)

Can't blame you for hating the Sauce though


----------



## Chaotic Gangsta (Apr 22, 2013)

Sasuke. Those lightning Variations would be a bit much. Not to mention Sasuke's a lot faster than Yamato is. It'd be relatively easy for Sasuke to get past through him.


----------



## Seiji (Apr 23, 2013)

Pathos Grim said:


> Wtf am I reading?
> Seriously, you hate Sasuke that much to believe that Yamato could defeat Hebi Sasuke?!
> 
> 
> ...



Dude, chillax. 



Thunder said:


> Having spent some time in the KC, I can understand where the Pirate is coming from.
> 
> In the hands of a decent strategist KC Yamato could definitely win, or at least do a lot better verses Hebi Sasuke than his manga self. With no storyline to restrict the characters their full (theoretical) potential becomes a lot more obvious.





The Pirate on Wheels said:


> I guess I did a poor job articulating myself if people are taking home the message that I think Yamato wins this match up and that I hate Sasuke.
> 
> See what Thunder and Plasticgear said.
> 
> ....is that a picture of Sakuya next to Dio?  Repped.



Yeah it's a KC thing but why bring it up in a BD thread? Can't really blame others for getting the wrong idea mate.

@thread

They already fought during the start of part 2 'n we'll just be seeing a replay here. Sauce schools him since Yamato's Mokuton won't be doing shit against Sauce's defenses, versatility, superior speed 'n reflexes. lol he's not even at Sauce's level.


----------

