# Sannin vs Hashirama



## Cognitios (Jun 19, 2014)

Location: VotE
Distance: 1km
Knowledge: None
Restrictions: Edo Regen

This is J-Man, Tsunade, Orochimaru
Orochimaru has an Edo Hiruzen with feats only.


----------



## Trojan (Jun 19, 2014)

Frog Song is kinda GG.
the same with the Raper Death Seal as well.


----------



## KeyofMiracles (Jun 19, 2014)

Hashirama shits on them.


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Jun 19, 2014)

No knowledge? Ouch.
Mokuton: Jukai Koutan w/ some Bunshin or Mokuton: Kajukai Kourin 

Hashirama is tiers upon tiers above them.


----------



## Krippy (Jun 19, 2014)

Hashirama shits in each of their mouths.


----------



## Ether (Jun 19, 2014)

Hashirama destroys them.

At 1km, he makes gigantic mokuton constructs and proceeds to smash through them.

Flower World can pretty much solo.


----------



## MusubiKazesaru (Jun 19, 2014)

Hashirama stomps 

The J-man didn't deserve this


----------



## Veracity (Jun 19, 2014)

Hashirama does indeed stomp this. They have nothing to stop a Wood Golem enwrapped with a wood dragon which is more lethal then PS.


----------



## Turrin (Jun 19, 2014)

It kind of depends on if the four of them can use the Hokage style barrier that contained the Juubi. If they can than they could potentially hold Hashirama back while Ma/PA prep Frog-Song. However no knowledge really hurts them and i'm not sure they will last long enough think of this strategy. I lean towards Hashirama, but I can see a possible avenue for the Sannin's victory.


----------



## Fiiction (Jun 19, 2014)

Hashi takes this in base. Throw in tobi and Minato then maybe he'll be pushed to SM


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Jun 19, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> Hashirama does indeed stomp this. They have nothing to stop a Wood Golem enwrapped with a wood dragon which is more lethal then PS.



Hashirama doesn't even need Mokujin/Mokuryuu to defeat them; that's overkill.


----------



## Cognitios (Jun 19, 2014)

Making it so it isn't a stomp.
J-Man starts in Sage Mode
10% Katsuya is out for Tsunade
3 Boss Toads are out for J-Man
Manda v2 is out for Oro
Oro is in his new zetsu body.


----------



## Trojan (Jun 19, 2014)

King Itachi said:


> Hashirama doesn't even need Mokujin/Mokuryuu to defeat them; that's overkill.



How is he going to defeat them?


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Jun 19, 2014)

Hussain said:


> How is going to defeat them?



Jukai Koutan
Kajukai Kourin
Moku Bunshin

They don't have enough AoE to destroy Hashirama's forests, and Jiraiya will *never* summon Ni Dai Sennin under these conditions. Katsuyu turns to its master.

They get stomped like fodder.


----------



## Krippy (Jun 19, 2014)

You didn't even bother to restrict Sage mode for shodai? 

He still wont break a sweat.


----------



## Trojan (Jun 19, 2014)

King Itachi said:


> Jukai Koutan
> Kajukai Kourin
> Moku Bunshin
> 
> ...



- Hiruzen already fodderstomped that jutsu in canon. 
- I don't what's that, English please. @>@
- lol, no, they are fodders. 

They actually have. 

- He starts with them, and I'm not sure where you come up with this + he can go to the other dimension and summon them if he need to. 

- Actually Hashirama got defeated by fodders, so. @>@


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Jun 19, 2014)

Hussain said:


> - Hiruzen already fodderstomped that jutsu in canon.



I recall Hiruzen struggling to escape P1 Hashi's Mokuton: Jukai Koutan (weakened).



> - I don't what's that, English please. @>@



Pollen World
They can't destroy the trees or stay elevated above said pollen.



> - lol, no, they are fodders.



They're fodder to Edo Madara - who can solo these guys with low difficulty - when Hashi is focusing his chakra on a barrier that is capable of containing Juubi.



> - He starts with them, and I'm not sure where you come up with this



The stipulations don't say anything about Jiraiya starting with  Ni Dai Sennin.



> + he can go to the other dimension and summon them if he need to.



What dimension?
Are you talking about his barriers?

Without knowledge, I don't see why Jiraiya would even choose to do that.



> - Actually Hashirama got defeated by fodders, so. @>@



We don't know that.
Hashirama was weakened after Madz swallowed his meat.


----------



## Trojan (Jun 19, 2014)

> =King Itachi;50999938]I recall Hiruzen struggling to escape P1 Hashi's Mokuton: Jukai Koutan (weakened).


No, he summoned Enma and destroyed them as fodders. The weakened point is irrelevant as he
did the same to the Tree's woods, or perhaps you are implying that Hashirama is stronger than the Tree?  


> Pollen World
> They can't destroy the trees or stay elevated above said pollen.



Useless attack is useless. Hiruzen can use his wind attack to carry the pollen away.
or do you think the pollen can't be carried by the wind? 


> They're fodder to Edo Madara - who can solo these guys with low difficulty - when Hashi is focusing his chakra on a barrier that is capable of containing Juubi.


 
Madara who got solo'd by base lee?
anyway. Feats for the clones please. 


> The stipulations don't say anything about Jiraiya starting with  Ni Dai Sennin.





> Making it so it isn't a stomp.
> J-Man starts in Sage Mode
> 10% Katsuya is out for Tsunade
> 3 Boss Toads are out for J-Man
> ...





> What dimension?
> Are you talking about his barriers?


the one she trapped the Animal Path in it. The one filled with Acid. 


> Without knowledge, I don't see why Jiraiya would even choose to do that.


There is nothing stopping him from doing so though. U_U



> We don't know that.
> Hashirama was weakened after Madz swallowed his meat.



We do know that as the DB stated that he died in the war, and Tsunade said he died as a loser or something. And no, Hashirama was not weakened from a bite to the point where he became fodder, that's ridicules.


----------



## SubtleObscurantist (Jun 19, 2014)

Not enough AOE? 

Jiraiya and Gamabunta's Katon: Gamayu Endan combination attack, Katsuya's Zessi Nessan, Manda 2.0 (which Orochimaru absolutely should be able to summon), and five elements attack from Hiruzen is more than sufficient to destroy the largest forest Hasharima could muster. 

I am not even saying they win here. I never offer opinions on matches like these because the scale is just too big.


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Jun 19, 2014)

I'm sorry. Only read the opening post, so I didn't see that stipulation for Jiraiya.



Hussain said:


> No, he summoned Enma and destroyed them as fodders. The weakened point is irrelevant as he
> did the same to the Tree's woods, or perhaps you are implying that Hashirama is stronger than the Tree?



No, I'm implying that Hashirama is stronger than P1 Hashi (Edo Tensei).



> Useless attack is useless. Hiruzen can use his wind attack to carry the pollen away.
> or do you think the pollen can't be carried by the wind?



Hiruzen's fodder attacks aren't carrying away the pollen from an entire forest. Mind you, Hashirama's techniques are stronger than what Edo Madara had shown...from a logical standpoint. 



> Madara who got solo'd by base lee?
> anyway. Feats for the clones please.



Madara... the guy who is arrogant and knows that taking hits wouldn't matter as Edo Tensei.
I know him. 

And I don't need to show you feats.
If the clones are spread throughout the vast forests, the only thing they're gonna need to do is kill unconscious Sannin.



> the one she trapped the Animal Path in it. The one filled with Acid.
> 
> There is nothing stopping him from doing so though. U_U



There's no reason why Jiraiya would do that against Hashirama; he doesn't even know what he's facing. Hashirama, on the other hand, would open up with casual techniques that they're unable to counter.



> We do know that as the DB stated that he died in the war, and *Tsunade said he died as a loser or something*. And no, Hashirama was not weakened from a bite to the point where he became fodder, that's ridicules.



Scan of this statement?
Hashirama was the strongest person of his era. A myth...
It's doubtful that fodder had genuinely taken him out.


----------



## Trojan (Jun 19, 2014)

> =King Itachi;51000101]I'm sorry. Only read the opening post, so I didn't see that stipulation for Jiraiya.


no big deal. @>@


> No, I'm implying that Hashirama is stronger than P1 Hashi (Edo Tensei).


It does not matter as that won't change Hiruzen's ability to destroy his wood. 



> Hiruzen's fodder attacks aren't carrying away the pollen from an entire forest. Mind you, Hashirama's techniques are stronger than what Edo Madara had shown...from a logical standpoint.



Yes they are, those are pollen for God's sake. 
you don't have to be a monster to deal with pollen.  

- As for him being stronger, feats please, or even hype at least. 


> Madara... the guy who is arrogant and knows that taking hits wouldn't matter as Edo Tensei.
> I know him.


He got fodderized by BZ as well. 


> And I don't need to show you feats.
> If the clones are spread throughout the vast forests, the only thing they're gonna need to do is kill unconscious Sannin.


So, I don't need to show you Hiruzen's feats that made him the strongest Hokage
and we can agree that Hiruzen solos? 



> There's no reason why Jiraiya would do that against Hashirama; he doesn't even know what he's facing. Hashirama, on the other hand, would open up with casual techniques that they're unable to counter.



He does not need to as I said because he is already in SM. Also, you are trying to hard to convince yourself that Jiraiya will never do something he CAN use to win, and he ACTUALLY USED against pain.  

- Yes, they are able to counter his attacks, and by your logic Hashirama is not going to use what you said because he knows nothing about the sannin. In fact, Hiruzen and his team probably know "almost" everything about him, from the timeline perspective. 


> Scan of this statement?
> Hashirama was the strongest person of his era. A myth...
> It's doubtful that fodder had genuinely taken him out.



drown out Sasuke's Susano'o.

@>@


----------



## Fiiction (Jun 19, 2014)

Hashirama enters SM and pulls out a enormous Pollen World. The AOE is too much for team Hiruzen. Only chance they have is in Jiraiya teleporting them into that toad mouth dimension thing. Which will be stupid, because the frog will get put to sleep and then killed by a tree branch.


----------



## Fiiction (Jun 19, 2014)

No one knows how Hashirama died just like no one knew how madara survived. So for fucks sake, stop arguing about if he got taken out by fodders or not.  BZ could've assassinated him or something, Hashirama is still top 10. I can argue that he can survive long enough until Gai runs out of steam.


----------



## Trojan (Jun 19, 2014)

Fiiction said:


> No one knows how Hashirama died just like no one knew how madara survived. So for fucks sake, stop arguing about if he got taken out by fodders or not.  BZ could've assassinated him or something, Hashirama is still top 10. I can argue that he can survive long enough until Gai runs out of steam.



Except Hashirama was dead for sure.  
as for Zetsu, Hashirama does not even know about him.  

- No, he is not top 10.


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Jun 19, 2014)

Hussain said:


> It does not matter as that won't change Hiruzen's ability to destroy his wood.



That's great.
Do you mind telling me why Hashirama (living) should be compared to P1 Hashi (ET)?



> Yes they are, those are pollen for God's sake.
> you don't have to be a monster to deal with pollen.



To imply that Hiruzen's Fuuton can blow away pollen from an entire forest is baseless...



> - As for him being stronger, feats please, or even hype at least.



100% Senju DNA with Mokuton KKG... He trained in the art far longer than Madara, and he's got more chakra to boot. That equates to more experience and stronger techniques, thus his variants would be larger and harder to deal with.



> He got fodderized by BZ as well.



Because of his arrogance and lack of knowledge.



> So, I don't need to show you Hiruzen's feats that made him the strongest Hokage
> and we can agree that Hiruzen solos?



I was implying that, despite the lack of feats, Hashirama's Bunshin should be more than capable of killing unconscious people.



> He does not need to as I said because he is already in SM. Also, you are trying to hard to convince yourself that Jiraiya will never do something he CAN use to win, and he ACTUALLY USED against pain.



The difference is, Jiraiya doesn't know what he's facing.
When Chikushoudou was trapped in the barrier, Jiraiya lost an arm and knew he was going to lose sooner or later. 

Why would he try to run and hide from someone he's got no knowledge on?
Not to mention try to prep a technique...



> - Yes, they are able to counter his attacks, and by your logic Hashirama is not going to use what you said because he knows nothing about the sannin. In fact, Hiruzen and his team probably know "almost" everything about him, from the timeline perspective.



"No knowledge" means they wouldn't know anything about each other, and I think it also applies to Hiruzen.



> drown out Sasuke's Susano'o.
> 
> @>@



How does that relate to Hashirama being killed by fodder?
She included Tobirama in that statement, and he got killed by a group of 20 shinobi who were Jounin level and above. 

We really don't know how Hashirama died, so it's entirely speculative at this point.


----------



## Fiiction (Jun 19, 2014)

Hussain said:


> Except Hashirama was dead for sure.
> as for Zetsu, Hashirama does not even know about him.
> 
> - No, he is not top 10.



- except his death hasn't been revealed so until then everything is just assumption. That's why I said  assassinated.

- 1. Kaguya 2. Madara 3. Hagoromo 4. Hamura 5. Naruto 6. Sasuke 7. ? Hashirama?


----------



## Veracity (Jun 19, 2014)

Fiiction said:


> - except his death hasn't been revealed so until then everything is just assumption. That's why I said  assassinated.
> 
> - 1. Kaguya 2. Madara 3. Hagoromo 4. Hamura 5. Naruto 6. Sasuke 7. ? Hashirama?



Not in order:

Kaguya
Juubi 
Naruto
Sasuke 
Gai
Sage 
Hamura
Indra
Ashura 
Madara 
Juubito.

He's just out of top 10.


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Jun 19, 2014)

I don't think Ashura and Indra were stronger than Hashirama/Madara.


----------



## Cognitios (Jun 19, 2014)

> - 1. Kaguya 2. Madara 3. Hagoromo 4. Hamura 5. Naruto 6. Sasuke 7. ? Hashirama?


Juubito and Gai are who you are forgetting.


----------



## Veracity (Jun 19, 2014)

King Itachi said:


> I don't think Ashura and Indra were stronger than Hashirama/Madara.



They most certainty were hyped to be.


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Jun 19, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> They most certainty were hyped to be.



The peaks of their strength were some kind of Bijuu Mode and Perfect Susano'o; that's what we have been shown on panel. 

They have been reincarnated into stronger individuals over time.

EMS Madara w/ 100% Kyuubi > Indra
Sage Hashirama > Ashura


----------



## Trojan (Jun 19, 2014)

> =King Itachi;51000334]That's great.
> Do you mind telling me why Hashirama (living) should be compared to P1 Hashi (ET)?


Man, I am not talking about his wood in part 1. 
I told you Hiruzen destroyed the Tree's wood.

*Spoiler*: __ 










and that's why I asked you why do you think Hashirama is stronger than the Tree?  


> To imply that Hiruzen's Fuuton can blow away pollen from an entire forest is baseless...



why would he need to?
All he needs is to take the pollen away from him. Also, Jiraiya can use the fire & oil combo 
to burn the flowers down. 


> 100% Senju DNA with Mokuton KKG... He trained in the art far longer than Madara, and he's got more chakra to boot. That equates to more experience and stronger techniques, thus his variants would be larger and harder to deal with.


That does not mean anything as it was never implied otherwise. We only saw the jutsu from madara
and his jutsus was not stated to be weaker, if they were, then someone would have said that just
like it happened with Yamato, WZ, and Danzo. 

and about the chakra thing, it does not prove anything either, as we know the Rinnegan gives
insane about of chakra, so Madara's chakra is much bigger than how he was when he was alive. 


> Because of his arrogance and lack of knowledge.


Good, so power only is not everything. Even the weaker opponents can fodderize the much stronger ones. 


> I was implying that, despite the lack of feats, Hashirama's Bunshin should be more than capable of killing unconscious people.



the problem is they won't be unconscious to begin with, so that's not gonna happen. 


> The difference is, Jiraiya doesn't know what he's facing.
> When Chikushoudou was trapped in the barrier, Jiraiya lost an arm and knew he was going to lose sooner or later.


how does he not know what he is facing? 
Hashirama's jutsu does not need a genius to know what they are. 


> Why would he try to run and hide from someone he's got no knowledge on?
> Not to mention try to prep a technique...


because of the same reason he did against pain when he knew nothing about his abilities? 
and it's the same reason he prepared his jutsu? 


> "No knowledge" means they wouldn't know anything about each other, and I think it also applies to Hiruzen.



Well, Hashirama won't know about the raper death as well. He did not have a good time with him
last time, now, did he?  



> How does that relate to Hashirama being killed by fodder?
> She included Tobirama in that statement, and he got killed by a group of 20 shinobi who were Jounin level and above.


I said she said that he died as a loser. 
the statement about him being killed is from the DB. Also, all those nameless ninja are counted
as fodders, so it does not matter how you look at it, they are still fodders, and he was still killed. 

- Yeah, which they are fodders. The 3rd Raikage faced 10,000. Mu stated the numbers does not matter against him. Minato was killing those fools left and right, kid Obito soloed them without a scratch even though it was stated that they were skilled Jonin and ANBU...etc

they are all treated the same. 


> We really don't know how Hashirama died, so it's entirely speculative at this point.


we were told that he died in the battle in the first war. That's should give you a hint
that his "power" did not save his ass from those who you were saying "fodders" 

and a another hint as his raw power alone is not enough.


----------



## Fiiction (Jun 19, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> Not in order:
> 
> Kaguya
> Juubi
> ...



wtf was I thinking. smh 

Take out Gai and hashirama is top 10.

in a real real real fight where Hashirama and Gai both start off in base, hashirama would win.

But that's how they fair against each other, Gai can do a whole lot better against Juubi jins than Hashirama can.


----------



## Trojan (Jun 19, 2014)

Fiiction said:


> - except his death hasn't been revealed so until then everything is just assumption. That's why I said  assassinated.
> 
> - 1. Kaguya 2. Madara 3. Hagoromo 4. Hamura 5. Naruto 6. Sasuke 7. ? Hashirama?



- I don't care. I am just telling him that just because he thinks of other characters as fodders compare to
Hashirama is not enough of proof, as he once was killed by fodders.

with no order

Kaguya, Hagoromo, Hamaru, Ashura, Endra
Naruto, Sasuke, Madara, Obito, Guy, Dai (8 gates)

Oro and Kabuto (ET)
Prime Hiruzen (canon)
and BM Minato (my opinion) 

you can cancel out the last 4 and Dai as well, and he is still not top 10.


----------



## Veracity (Jun 19, 2014)

King Itachi said:


> The peaks of their strength were some kind of Bijuu Mode and Perfect Susano'o; that's what we have been shown on panel.
> 
> They have been reincarnated into stronger individuals over time.
> 
> ...



That was never stated to be the peak of their abilities. We were shown one panel of them fighting. If we went by the first panel shown of Madara and Hashirama fighting... Well they wouldn't really be that special.

And when was it stated that they were reincarnated even into stronger individuals ?


----------



## Cognitios (Jun 19, 2014)

changing knowledge.
- Hashirama knows Hiruzen is hyped as the "strongest hokage"
- Sannin know they are going up against a god of shinobi who uses mass AoE attacks.


----------



## Fiiction (Jun 19, 2014)

It's arguable that Hashirama is above asura and Indra. What do they have against SS? Indra certainly couldn't best prime hashirama. So yeah, hashirama is still top 10, in, my eyes.


----------



## Trojan (Jun 19, 2014)

Fiiction said:


> It's arguable that Hashirama is above asura and Indra. What do they have against SS? Indra certainly couldn't best prime hashirama. So yeah, hashirama is still top 10, in, my eyes.



lol, no it's not arguable. Kaguya and her family are just in a completely  different level.


----------



## Cognitios (Jun 19, 2014)

> lol, no it's not arguable. Kaguya and her family are just in a completely different level.


Hashirama is Kaguya's family.
So is Black Zetsu.


----------



## trance (Jun 19, 2014)

Hashirama annihilates with zero difficulty. He's light years stronger than nearly every Kage.


----------



## Trojan (Jun 19, 2014)

Cognitios said:


> Hashirama is Kaguya's family.
> So is Black Zetsu.



He's way after her time. 
as for BZ, well he fodderstomped JJ Madara, no? 



Stαrkiller said:


> Hashirama annihilates with zero difficulty. He's light years stronger than nearly every Kage.



don't make Hiruzen hear you, he will get upset.


----------



## Cognitios (Jun 19, 2014)

> He's way after her time.
> as for BZ, well he fodderstomped JJ Madara, no?


Don't call BZ fodder then 
Hashirama is her grandson's reincarnation. That's a pretty damn close connection.


----------



## Trojan (Jun 19, 2014)

Cognitios said:


> Don't call BZ fodder then
> Hashirama is her grandson's reincarnation. That's a pretty damn close connection.



I use BZ to hype Minato, you know that. 

- Not really. Otherwise why did Naruto said that he is not related to Sasuke rather than saying
he is his brother?  

Also, Ashura and Indra reincarnated in so many people throughout the years. U_U
they are not all related to each other.

It's like saying all mankind are related closely because they came from Adam and Eve, if you believe in that at least.


----------



## Ersa (Jun 19, 2014)

Yeah remember the first bell test? Think that but much worse. Hashirama was holding off EMS Madara and the Kyuubi in base until the fusion forced him back. Considering what KN4 did to Jiraiya (irregardless of circumstance) and how fearful Orochimaru was of KN4 I think it's fair to say 100% Kyuubi alone could kill the Sannin no difficulty.

Tsunade and Orochimaru (with just Hiruzen ET) are already fodder to people like Edo Itachi and Nagato, Hashirama is a big step above. Konohamaru has a better chance of defeating one of the Sannin then the Sannin do at defeating Hashirama.


----------



## Cognitios (Jun 19, 2014)

> I use BZ to hype Minato, you know that.


Use it to hype Itachi too then 



> - Not really. Otherwise why did Naruto said that he is not related to Sasuke rather than saying
> he is his brother?


When? Before they knew they were reincarnations?


> Also, Ashura and Indra reincarnated in so many people throughout the years. U_U
> they are not all related to each other.


Still a relation. As for the not related part, every reincarnation so far has been in the Senju/Uzumaki/Uchiha Family.


> It's like saying all mankind are related closely because they came from Adam and Eve, if you believe in that at least.


More like saying most brits are related to an early brit.


----------



## Trojan (Jun 19, 2014)

Cognitios said:


> Use it to hype Itachi too then
> 
> 
> When? Before they knew they were reincarnations?
> ...



- my man, I'm not itachi's fans. However, his fans are doing a fine job with that, wouldn't you agree. 
- When he was talking with Hagoromo, right before he gave them his power. 
- Well, he is still not her direct sons, or grandsons which inherited the power directly. Hashirama did
not even receive the power from Hagoromo, and look how did that make Hashirama a fodder compare to Naruto. U_U


----------



## Cognitios (Jun 19, 2014)

> - my man, I'm not itachi's fans. However, his fans are doing a fine job with that, wouldn't you agree.


Doesn't matter if your an Itachi fan or not. If you can use BZ as a credible source for Minato then he is a credible source for Itachi too.


> - When he was talking with Hagoromo, right before he gave them his power.


He said they aren't real siblings which would make sense. Spiritually they'd be cousins.


> - Well, he is still not her direct sons, or grandsons which inherited the power directly. Hashirama did
> not even receive the power from Hagoromo, and look how did that make Hashirama a fodder compare to Naruto. U_U


I never said anything about power, I'm arguing their related.


----------



## Trojan (Jun 19, 2014)

Ersatz said:


> Yeah remember the first bell test? Think that but much worse. Hashirama was holding off EMS Madara and the Kyuubi in base until the fusion forced him back. Considering what KN4 did to Jiraiya (irregardless of circumstance) and how fearful Orochimaru was of KN4 I think it's fair to say 100% Kyuubi alone could kill the Sannin no difficulty.
> 
> Tsunade and Orochimaru (with just Hiruzen ET) are already fodder to people like Edo Itachi and Nagato, Hashirama is a big step above. Konohamaru has a better chance of defeating one of the Sannin then the Sannin do at defeating Hashirama.





so much fodder I suppose they couldn't resist state that.  
*Spoiler*: __ 











and that about 1 of them alone. 
not to mention your so believed itachi. lol
he knew very well his place



*Spoiler*: __ 



http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110723150655/naruto/images/3/39/Itachi_talks_to_Hiruzen.png


----------



## trance (Jun 19, 2014)

Hussain said:


> don't make Hiruzen hear you, he will get upset.



>Hashirama nowhere near his full power

:ignoramus


----------



## Trojan (Jun 19, 2014)

Cognitios said:


> Doesn't matter if your an Itachi fan or not. If you can use BZ as a credible source for Minato then he is a credible source for Itachi too.
> 
> He said they aren't real siblings which would make sense. Spiritually they'd be cousins.
> 
> I never said anything about power, I'm arguing their related.



- Well, I suppose yeah. 
- They only inherit the chakra man, not the DNA.  
- Well, he is, But, not "close" there are like a thousand years between them if not more. 



Stαrkiller said:


> >Hashirama nowhere near his full power
> 
> :ignoramus



still in a batter condition than Hiruzen. 
:ignoramus


----------



## trance (Jun 20, 2014)

Hussain said:


> still in a batter condition than Hiruzen.
> :ignoramus



>Didn't use Sage Mode
>Didn't use Wood Golem
>Didn't use Wood Dragon
>Didn't use Flower World

:ignoramus


----------



## Trojan (Jun 20, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> >Didn't use Sage Mode
> >Didn't use Wood Golem
> >Didn't use Wood Dragon
> >Didn't use Flower World
> ...



Hiruzen can use all jutsus in konoha, he barely used 5 
and he was against 2 Hokages who are immortal (otherwise he would have fodderized them with explosion tags), and against a Sannin.

Even though the poor guy was almost in his 70. 
:ignoramus

anyway, I'm at my limit.

thank you all, strange enough, it was fun.


----------



## Fiiction (Jun 20, 2014)

Hussain said:


> lol, no it's not arguable. Kaguya and her family are just in a completely  different level.



Indra and asura are the ancestors of the uchiha and Senju, maybe Hagoromo and Hamura are on a different level but not Indra and asura.heck, Indra was seen with the sharingan and only had PS.


----------



## Trojan (Jun 20, 2014)

Fiiction said:


> Indra and asura are the ancestors of the uchiha and Senju, maybe Hagoromo and Hamura are on a different level but not Indra and asura.heck, Indra was seen with the sharingan and only had PS.



Naruto and Sasuke now have Asura and Indra's power, and they will shit on Hashirama any day.
Sasuke has only PS as well, does that mean his PS can't destroy Hashirama's Buddha? 

No, it does not mean that.

See what Kaguya stated when she first saw them...


----------



## Fiiction (Jun 20, 2014)

Hussain said:


> Naruto and Sasuke now have Asura and Indra's power, and they will shit on Hashirama any day.
> Sasuke has only PS as well, does that mean his PS can't destroy Hashirama's Buddha?
> 
> No, it does not mean that.
> ...



Naruto has the 9 bijuu

Sasuke has the rinnegan.

Where was it stated that Indra or asura had any of this?


----------



## MusubiKazesaru (Jun 20, 2014)

Hussain said:


> Hiruzen can use all jutsus in konoha, he barely used 5
> and he was against 2 Hokages who are immortal (otherwise he would have fodderized them with explosion tags), and against a Sannin.
> 
> Even though the poor guy was almost in his 70.
> ...



Let Prime Hiruzen guide to you glory


----------



## trance (Jun 20, 2014)

Hussain said:


> Hiruzen can use all jutsus in konoha, he barely used 5



>Kakashi knows 1,000 jutsu
>Has shown around 20

:ignoramus



> and he was against 2 Hokages who are immortal (otherwise he would have fodderized them with explosion tags), and against a Sannin.



Immortal but far from their full power and a Sannin that was mostly playing with him.


----------



## trance (Jun 20, 2014)

Hussain said:


> Hiruzen can use all jutsus in konoha, he barely used 5



>Kakashi knows 1,000 jutsu
>Has shown around 20

:ignoramus



> and he was against 2 Hokages who are immortal (otherwise he would have fodderized them with explosion tags), and against a Sannin.



Hashirama has his regeneration, plus he was far from his full power, so it's not like Hiruzen could actually land that on Hashirama at his best.


----------



## Legendary Itachi (Jun 20, 2014)

Years after years ppl never give up hope to the most overrated Frog Song hype used by some ancient sages who cough badly after singing shortly under extremely favorable condition.


----------



## kingcools (Jun 20, 2014)

History of rape gets another entry the day the sannin face off against hashirama.

He is just leagues above them.


----------



## Cognitios (Jun 20, 2014)

How much of a difference do 10% Katsuya and Manda v2 make?
Both are on a scale that is enough to tank some of Hashirama's attacks and destroy some of them too.


----------



## kingcools (Jun 20, 2014)

Cognitios said:


> How much of a difference do 10% Katsuya and Manda v2 make?
> Both are on a scale that is enough to tank some of Hashirama's attacks and destroy some of them too.



whats the point of adding nonsense like that?


----------



## Cognitios (Jun 20, 2014)

> whats the point of adding nonsense like that?


Making it not a stomp 
And it's pretty logical that Tsunade and Oro would have access to these summons and be able to fight in tandem.


----------



## Ersa (Jun 20, 2014)

Hussain said:


> so much fodder I suppose they couldn't resist state that.
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...


You didn't even read my post before spouting your usual anti-Itachi tirade.

I said Tsunade and Orochimaru (without ET) are fodder to Edo Itachi, SM Jiraiya isn't in my opinion but he doesn't stand a very good chance either. Your scans are both poorly translated and showcase a weaker Itachi so I'm not interested in them.

It doesn't really matter as Hashirama is on a completely different level to Itachi anyways. The Sannin do nothing here but die.


----------



## Bonly (Jun 20, 2014)

Sannin get destroyed by Hashi, they ain't on his level


----------



## Alex Payne (Jun 20, 2014)

Cognitios said:


> Location: VotE
> Distance: 1km
> Knowledge: None
> Restrictions: Edo Regen
> ...


----------



## Mercurial (Jun 20, 2014)

Base Hashirama casually fodderstomps them. His casual Mokuton laughs off boss summons and everything else they can offer.


----------



## Trojan (Jun 20, 2014)

Ersatz said:


> You didn't even read my post before spouting your usual anti-Itachi tirade.
> 
> I said Tsunade and Orochimaru (without ET) are fodder to Edo Itachi, SM Jiraiya isn't in my opinion but he doesn't stand a very good chance either. Your scans are both poorly translated and showcase a weaker Itachi so I'm not interested in them.
> 
> It doesn't really matter as Hashirama is on a completely different level to Itachi anyways. The Sannin do nothing here but die.



It's not hate, you stated they are fodder to itachi, which is not true, because itachi stated that he is
weaker than one of them alone. How is that hate when I just posted what itachi himself said? 

- Poorly translated? lol, no.
Takl and other guy "shun"...something I don't know what was his name lol
anyway they are regarded as one of the best translators, and the other scans are all
Viz translation. U_U

As for Tsunade she was dealing with 5 of Edo Madara's clones who are way stronger than Itachi.

- Or kill him with them via Frog Song, or raper death seal.


----------



## Ersa (Jun 20, 2014)

Hussain said:


> It's not hate, you stated they are fodder to itachi, which is not true, because itachi stated that he is
> weaker than one of them alone. How is that hate when I just posted what itachi himself said?


As I said the translation is poor.

And sick Itachi =/= Edo Itachi.



> - Poorly translated? lol, no.
> Takl and other guy "shun"...something I don't know what was his name lol
> anyway they are regarded as one of the best translators, and the other scans are all
> Viz translation. U_U


Even with their translations it only suggests that a fight between Itachi and Jiraiya would end up in the draw given the circumstances which really has no bearing on their respective power levels.


> As for Tsunade she was dealing with 5 of Edo Madara's clones who are way stronger than Itachi.


No they aren't.

They could barely dent Mei.

Madara's clones are no more impressive then Hashirama's (which use senjutsu) and those got wiped out by Madara sitting down.


----------



## ARGUS (Jun 20, 2014)

Hashirama wrecks them


----------



## Trojan (Jun 20, 2014)

> =Ersatz;51003080]As I said the translation is poor.
> And sick Itachi =/= Edo Itachi.



Except it is not. 
here is the JP text
Originally Posted by Ch144, p8
Kisame:
「アナタならどうにかこうにかやれる相手でも私じゃあ 分かりませんよ?」
「次元が違う」
"You might be able to somehow defeat him, but me, well I don't know..."
"Our levels are too far apart"

Itachi:
「ああ?やり合えは二人共殺されるか良くて相打ちというところ」
「?たとえ人数を増やしたとしても変わらないだろう」
"Yeah... If we fought him, we might both be killed. If it goes well, we might take him with us."
"Even if the number of people were to increase, this probably wouldn't change"

Kisame
「ラーメン屋で　やっと見付けたはいいが?お守りが　あの゛伝説の三忍゛とは」
「彼が相手では゛木ノ葉のうちは一族゛も゛霧の忍刀七人衆゛の名もかすんでしまう」
"It was good we finally found them by the ramen store, but... his guardian is of those 'Legendary Three Ninja' "
"He, as an opponent, makes 'Konoha's Uchiha clan' and the 'Seven Shinobi Swordmen of the Mist' seem like nothing."

Itachi:
「ああ?しかし??」
「どんな強者にも弱点というのがあるものだ??」
"Yes... However......"
"No matter how strong a person is, he is bound to have a weakness..."

and a proof that itachi was sick in part 1? 



> Even with their translations it only suggests that a fight between Itachi and Jiraiya would end up in the draw given the circumstances which really has no bearing on their respective power levels.



Good, so they are not fodder to him, because he barely can handle one. 


> No they aren't.
> 
> They could barely dent Mei.


So, you're saying that Itachi's MS is stronger than Madara's EMS & Rinnegan
and his susanoo is stronger than Madara's susanoos as well?

- what a lame excuse, so we can say anyone who faced itachi and lost is not strong because
they lost to him? And that's is an excuse to say his opponents are weak rather than he's strong?


> Madara's clones are no more impressive then Hashirama's (which use senjutsu) and those got wiped out by Madara sitting down



So you're saying Wood clones with V3 Susanoos are as powerful as wood clones without Susanoo?
even though Hashirama's clones do NOT use SM.


----------



## Atlantic Storm (Jun 20, 2014)

Unbalanced match.


----------

