# Children killed in Israeli Artillery Strike



## WT (Mar 22, 2011)

> Four Palestinian family members, including two children, have died in Gaza, in an Israeli artillery strike.
> 
> Another 12 people were wounded when an Israeli tank shell hit a home on the eastern outskirts of Gaza City.
> 
> ...



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12822493

4 family members only?! I guess they still have 1 to go (preferably a child) before they can get their revenge.

Also,  @ Hamas. What the fuck were they thinking.


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## Coteaz (Mar 22, 2011)

> Israeli Defence Minister Ehud Barak said it was an unfortunate mistake, but added that was "the price of dealing every day with the terrorists".


I can't say it any better than this man.

Also,


> In a second attack, three people - all members of Islamic Jihad - were killed during an air strike, medics said.


Sounds like a successful strike. 

Maybe if the Palestinians would lay down their arms and cease all hostilities, these unfortunate events wouldn't happen.


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## Xyloxi (Mar 22, 2011)

The thread title made me think this was a Daily Mail article, then I remembered that the Daily Mail hates Muslims.


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## Megaharrison (Mar 22, 2011)

Considering Hamas and their ilk fire rockets like this:



It's hardly a surprise that civilians die. I imagine Hamas is happy when that happens considering how little they value their own people.

This escalation began when Hamas began their 50-mortar barrage on our civilians a few days ago. The fact that they intentionally fired those mortars at our civilians and praised the stabbing of Israeli children in Itmar whereas we're targeting terrorists here and our Defense Minister expresses regret over their own human shield tactics demonstrates the primary difference in thought here.

Good job at the 2nd strike in any regard. This is a difficult situation to say the least. We can't just let them fire 50 mortars at our civilians without reprisal, but that requires dealing with Hamas human shield tactics. The best we can do is to try our reasonably best to not kill civilians.

And on a side-note, one disgraceful aspect of Al Jazeera is that they never reported the mass artillery bombardment of Israeli civilians several days ago, yet they're all over the escalation from this now. Moreover they still have yet to even mention that event in the recounting of why this escalation is taking place.


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## Squall Leonhart (Mar 22, 2011)

Coteaz said:


> Maybe if the Palestinians would lay down their arms and cease all hostilities, these unfortunate events wouldn't happen.



^^^ Bingo.


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## WT (Mar 22, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> Considering Hamas and their ilk fire rockets like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Actions change over time but the mindset doesn't. When a nation is given its peace, it focus's on becoming a part of the international community. Once this happens, the image their nation projects becomes extremely important. 

If you really want to compare the mindsets of the Israeli's, look no further then the terrorists they were in their inception.


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## Megaharrison (Mar 22, 2011)

White Tiger said:


> Actions change over time but the mindset doesn't. When a nation is given its peace, it focus's on becoming a part of the international community. Once this happens, the image their nation projects becomes extremely important.
> 
> If you really want to compare the mindsets of the Israeli's, look no further then the terrorists they were in their inception.



Using this logic all Germans are Nazi's because of events 60 years ago. What desperation you're showing here.

Oh yes, and all Pakistani's are genocidal because of events in Bangladesh.


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## Pseudo (Mar 22, 2011)

Israel does bad things?


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## Kafuka de Vil (Mar 22, 2011)

This thread is dedicated to Degelle.

Fuck Zionism.


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## WT (Mar 22, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> Using this logic all Germans are Nazi's because of events 60 years ago. What desperation you're showing here.



Bad comparison.

Difference is that Germans today denounce Hitler as a hero, Nazi's are hated, hunted down and killed.

Ben Gurion is still celebrated and his ideology still exists.


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## iander (Mar 22, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> Moreover they still have yet to even mention that event in the recounting of why this escalation is taking place.





> He said that the raids were in response to a wave of 56 rocket and mortar attacks from Gaza into Israel since Saturday and that the military held Hamas "solely responsible for terrorist activity in the Gaza Strip and warns Hamas not to continue its aggression".


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## Xyloxi (Mar 22, 2011)

White Tiger said:


> Bad comparison.
> 
> Difference is that Germans today denounce Hitler as a hero, Nazi's are hated, hunted down and killed.
> 
> Ben Gurion is still celebrated and his ideology still exists.



Zionism is a very vast ideology compared to National Socialism, Revisionist Zionism is a disgusting and backwards ideology, whereas Labour Zionism is pretty reasonable in it's policies concrning economic, social and Palestinian matters. Ben Gurion isn't responsible for any sort of genocide, whereas Hitler is, Israel may not be perfect, but its far superior to any other Middle Eastern state.


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## Megaharrison (Mar 22, 2011)

White Tiger said:


> Bad comparison.
> 
> Difference is that Germans today denounce Hitler as a hero, Nazi's are hated, hunted down and killed.
> 
> Ben Gurion is still celebrated and his ideology still exists.



If the mindset of "lets kill civilians" and terrorism is still prevalent in modern day then I imagine we would be intentionally doing it. And if it was in our mindset, why would our Defense Minister condemn it? Everything we do contradicts the supposed mindset we have. Do we have Hostels where we secretly torture people to death to appease our bloodlust or something?

As for Ben Gurion, national heroes still revered in most if not all countries today have skeletons in their closet. Bismarck (imperialist), Thomas Jefferson (owned slaves), Alexander Nevesky (despot), Saladin (war criminal), and so on. Even going more recent it's the case, just look at the kind of things Roosevelt and Churchill did yet they're still shown in a positive light. For you people it's people like Nasser or Benazir Bhutto right? Just look up the kind of stuff the former did in Yemen and the latter's role in forming the Taliban. Nasrallah is the most admired person in the Arab world today according to a , and he's a depraved religious terrorist. So yeah.



			
				iander said:
			
		

> http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/03/2011321231128318380.html



Lol, took them long enough. They ignored the event for days until it came back to bite the Pali's.


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## Orion (Mar 22, 2011)

To me it looks like Hamas killed those children by conducting their operations in the middle of a civilian population.


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## Derpie (Mar 22, 2011)

It seems as though the Israelis have little to complain about when it comes to the issue of child-killing.



Orion said:


> To me it looks like Hamas killed those children by conducting their operations in the middle of a civilian population.



And Israel killed its own citizens by giving them the OK to settle on disputed land.


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## Orion (Mar 22, 2011)

Derpie said:


> It seems as though the Israelis have little to complain about when it comes to the issue of child-killing.
> 
> 
> 
> And Israel killed its own citizens by giving them the OK to settle on disputed land.



The land isn't disputed at all, it doesn't belong to the Palestinians they have no right to tell anyone who can and can't settle where.


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## Derpie (Mar 22, 2011)

Orion said:


> The land isn't disputed at all, it never belonged to the Palestinians they have no right to tell anyone who can and can't settle where.



The land is heavily contested. That is damn near uncontestable, and in Israel nevertheless giving consent to its citizenry to settle, it is accordingly complicit in the deaths that inevitably follow thereafter.


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## Extasee (Mar 22, 2011)

It's not surprising but that doesn't make the psychological impact any less frightening.

Those poor people...


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## Orion (Mar 22, 2011)

How is it contested, the land was given to them by the actual owners IE not the Palestinians, therefore there is no contestation.

The Palestinians thinking they are entitled to the land doesn't change the fact that they aren't.


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## Derpie (Mar 22, 2011)

Orion said:


> How is it contested, the land was given to them by the actual owners IE not the Palestinians, therefore there is no contestation.
> 
> The Palestinians thinking they are entitled to the land doesn't change the fact that they aren't.



There is no final declaration at all that officially stipulates Israel as the owner of any of the land he frequently sanctions its citizens to reside. 

The Israelis thinking they are entitled to the land doesn't mean that they are.


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## hellonoam (Mar 22, 2011)

at least this was a mistake
Palestinians kill the innocent on purpose. Israel kills as a mistake while trying to deal with the murdering Palestinians.


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## makeoutparadise (Mar 22, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> Using this logic all Germans are Nazi's because of events 60 years ago. What desperation you're showing here.
> 
> Oh yes, and all Pakistani's are genocidal because of events in Bangladesh.



And all Palestinians break into Israeli's homes and kill families


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## Orion (Mar 22, 2011)

So being given the land by the real owners doesn't mean they can settle there...right.

Onto the ignore list for you troll.


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## Derpie (Mar 22, 2011)

Orion said:


> So being given the land by the real owners doesn't mean they can settle there...right.
> 
> Onto the ignore list for you troll.



It seems as though you simply ignored everything I posted anyway, so this comes as no surprise.  

I have already made it quite clear that there has been no official declaration on the Israeli side justifying its settlement. In fact, the last UN vote on the matter was going to restrict Israel's ability to do just that until the naggardly United States entered the picture and vetoed the resolution. 

Your choice to defer to ignorance and rhetoric is unfortunate.


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## Evil Ghost Ninja (Mar 22, 2011)

I like the tread title, very neutral.


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## DisgustingIdiot (Mar 22, 2011)

You've got to love Israel-Gaza relations.


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## Gextiv (Mar 22, 2011)

The kids would have probably taken arms when grown up to take down the big evil Zionist nation of Israel. Why can't people get along.


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## Bill_gates (Mar 22, 2011)

stop firing rockets into Israel and then crying when you get your ass kicked


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## Altron (Mar 22, 2011)

> He said that the raids were in response to a wave of 56 rocket and  mortar attacks from Gaza into Israel since Saturday and that the  military held Hamas "solely responsible for terrorist activity in the  Gaza Strip and warns Hamas not to continue its aggression".





			
				White Tiger said:
			
		

> Perhaps not the people as we see that many protest against the wars,  however, the whole responsibility goes to *Hamas as a nation.*



Nice Neutral title OP


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## Momoka (Mar 22, 2011)




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## Syed (Mar 22, 2011)

Israel kills Palestinian civilians? Oh my god really?! *sarcasm*. 

Poor kids. Can't imagine what the mothers must be feeling.


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## Terra Branford (Mar 22, 2011)

Poor babies 

Wait, if they don't want to be being fired at, maybe they shouldn't fire first...?  What the heckle did they think was going to happen? Did they think Israeli would roll over for them? 

At least when Israel kills, its by _mistake_. What is the Palestinians excuse when they kill innocent people on *purpose*? Wasn't it just last month (or maybe two?) that a Palestinian man murdered an entire family, even a one month old baby in cold blood?


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## Angel (Mar 22, 2011)

Very sad .


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## Toroxus (Mar 22, 2011)

Shocking and sensational article title written with an obvious bias against Israel. This article is more yellow than a banana.


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## Terra Branford (Mar 22, 2011)

White Tiger said:
			
		

> *Actions change over time but the mindset doesn't.* When a nation is given its peace, it focus's on becoming a part of the international community. Once this happens, the image their nation projects becomes extremely important.
> 
> If you really want to compare the mindsets of the Israeli's, look no further then the terrorists they were in their inception.


Are you serious? 

Weird how you only give out this absurd logic when it is something you *hate*. Will you continue to feel this way when it comes down to Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia etc etc? Because even if their _actions have changed_ over time, their _mindset hasn't_. That's in _your_ words. :/



Toroxus said:


> Shocking and sensational article title written with an obvious bias against Israel. This article is more yellow than a banana.



Judging it by his past threads, posts and views (sorry Tiger, that's how you come off man...), this thread was created by a user who hates Jewish people and Israeli, as well as America. All of his threads are biased and full of anti-Semite and anti-American attitude... :/


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## iander (Mar 22, 2011)

FYI, the militant attack on Saturday was premised on an Israeli attack on Gaza that killed a few people a few days before that.  Its just more of the usual tit for tat BS that keeps this circle of hatred going.


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## Ennoea (Mar 22, 2011)

And Hamas got what they wanted, a child's death they can use as propaganda.


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## Megaharrison (Mar 22, 2011)

iander said:


> FYI, the militant attack on Saturday was premised on an Israeli attack on Gaza that killed a few people a few days before that.  Its just more of the usual tit for tat BS that keeps this circle of hatred going.



Which was a response to 3 Rockets hitting the Eshkol region the day before. If they left us alone we wouldn't fight back. We clearly want nothing to do with Gaza.


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## iander (Mar 22, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> Which was a response to 3 Rockets hitting the Eshkol region the day before. If they left us alone we wouldn't fight back. We clearly want nothing to do with Gaza.



Peace is a two way street.  They say the same thing.  It will take concessions on both sides if resolution is going to come of the conflict.


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## Megaharrison (Mar 22, 2011)

iander said:


> Peace is a two way street.  They say the same thing.  It will take concessions on both sides if resolution is going to come of the conflict.



There isn't much we do in the way of concessions with Gaza anymore considering we already left.

Concessions haven't brought us peace since Jordan in any regard, right now until core issues are solved we can give up everything except a 5km perimeter around Tel Aviv and it still wouldn't bring peace. The best we can hope for are these periods of calm we achieve by military means.


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## iander (Mar 22, 2011)

Thats like them saying we'll have a temp ceasefire while smuggling in weapons.  Wow, you took settlements away from Gaza but you added tons more to the West Bank and East Jerusalem and shut off Gaza from the outside world.  They should be thankful I guess.


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## Mael (Mar 22, 2011)

iander said:


> Peace is a two way street.  They say the same thing.  It will take concessions on both sides if resolution is going to come of the conflict.



But what else aside from independent settlers could Israel concede?

You don't get it, do you?

Hamas still wants that power.  Peace with Israel means they lose their grip.


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## Megaharrison (Mar 22, 2011)

iander said:


> Thats like them saying we'll have a temp ceasefire while smuggling in weapons.  Wow, you took settlements away from Gaza but you added tons more to the West Bank and East Jerusalem and shut off Gaza from the outside world.  They should be thankful I guess.



It isn't about settlements to them. Hamas repeatedly rejects the existence of Israel and states over and over in its political platform that it wishes to destroy the entirety of Israel and replace it with an Islamic theocracy. Withdrawing settlements is only a step closer to victory for Hamas, and they said exactly that the second we left Gaza.

Moreover we couldn't "shut off Gaza from the outside world" even if we wanted to. Basic geography renders it impossible.


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## iander (Mar 23, 2011)

Mael said:


> But what else aside from independent settlers could Israel concede?
> 
> You don't get it, do you?
> 
> Hamas still wants that power.  Peace with Israel means they lose their grip.



Ending the occupation, taking away most of the settlements, recognizing a Palestinian state including East Jerusalem, a limited right of return, eliminating parts of the wall on Palestinian land, release of political prisoners, allowing movement of people and goods out of Palestine, among other things.

Just like the Palestinians have many concessions they can make.

Hamas retains so much power because of the never ending conflict.  Hamas thrives on the desperation of Palestinians for an end to the occupation and hatred of Israelis much like Israel's conservatives have a lot of support because they tap into the need for self-defense and hatred of Palestinians.  This stubborn nationalistic BS derails the peace process. 



Megaharrison said:


> It isn't about settlements to them. Hamas repeatedly rejects the existence of Israel and states over and over in its political platform that it wishes to destroy the entirety of Israel and replace it with an Islamic theocracy. Withdrawing settlements is only a step closer to victory for Hamas, and they said exactly that the second we left Gaza.
> 
> Moreover we couldn't "shut off Gaza from the outside world" even if we wanted to. Basic geography renders it impossible.



There wouldn't be support for Hamas without a perpetual conflict.  If Israelis and Palestinians want to end this conflict they need to understand the other side.  If Palestinians and Israelis don't see that the other side is willing to fight out of fear for their country and their people, then they are doomed to continue the status quo.

As for shutting off Gaza, all Israel needed was support from the US to put pressure on Egypt.


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## Jin-E (Mar 23, 2011)

Tragic event, but atleast Israel didnt deliberately target these children.

Seems more and more like Hamas will try to stoke up tensions again, as a means to divert Palestinians who call for unity. Nothing as efficient like directing that frustration on the "Zionist entity".


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## Xyloxi (Mar 23, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> Moreover we couldn't "shut off Gaza from the outside world" even if we wanted to. Basic geography renders it impossible.



Obviously you'd have to use some of your Jew magic to create a dome over Gaza, made from the solidified blood of Palestinian children.


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## Megaharrison (Mar 23, 2011)

iander said:


> Ending the occupation, taking away most of the settlements, recognizing a Palestinian state including East Jerusalem, a limited right of return, eliminating parts of the wall on Palestinian land, release of political prisoners, allowing movement of people and goods out of Palestine, among other things.
> 
> Just like the Palestinians have many concessions they can make.
> 
> Hamas retains so much power because of the never ending conflict.  Hamas thrives on the desperation of Palestinians for an end to the occupation and hatred of Israelis much like Israel's conservatives have a lot of support because they tap into the need for self-defense and hatred of Palestinians.  This stubborn nationalistic BS derails the peace process.



This is a lot of nice idealistic flowery talk but it has proven itself to simply not be true today. We are hated by countries we've never even harmed, such as Malaysia. Lebanon is probably our worst enemy despite the fact we no longer have any concessions to give them. The largest opposition group in Egypt has repeatedly called for war with us, despite a peace treaty. The settlements won't lead to peace, Gaza has made that clear. 

This idea that Hamas will be isolated because of some deal with Fatah is naive. Hezbollah sure as Hell wasn't isolated after we left Lebanon, despite the fact that their existence was no longer even required.




> There wouldn't be support for Hamas without a perpetual conflict.  If Israelis and Palestinians want to end this conflict they need to understand the other side.  If Palestinians and Israelis don't see that the other side is willing to fight out of fear for their country and their people, then they are doomed to continue the status quo.



The continued status quo is better then the alternative. Again, Gaza has proven this. This idea that Hamas will go away if we dismantle the settlements is obviously BS.



> As for shutting off Gaza, all Israel needed was support from the US to put pressure on Egypt.



If Hamas was attacking us over the supposed closures, then they would have also attacked Egypt. Yet they never did, indicating that was never a reason for the rocket fire. Moreover, Egypt can hardly have been called cooperative on the whole closure thing, most of the smuggling tunnels were "hidden" by a piece of cardboard and Mubarak never cracked down on them despite this supposed "U.S. pressure". Lastly, there was never any real crisis in Gaza. Their standard of living was and still better then nearby Egypt. I'm sure people in Africa would kill for butter shortages.

Also something of note, one of the kids wounded is being


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## WT (Mar 23, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Judging it by his past threads, posts and views (sorry Tiger, that's how you come off man...), this thread was created by a user who hates Jewish people and Israeli, as well as America. All of his threads are biased and full of anti-Semite and anti-American attitude... :/



I also dislike the Pakistani, Saudi, Palestinian, Libyan well in fact, most if not all of the governments of the Islamic nations. 

Guess that makes me an anti Muslim as well with your logic.

I'm not an anti Semite. I dislike the Israeli government and the actions of the American military. This does not automatically make me bigoted towards the American and Jewish public.


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## WT (Mar 23, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> If the mindset of "lets kill civilians" and terrorism is still prevalent in modern day then I imagine we would be intentionally doing it. And if it was in our mindset, why would our Defense Minister condemn it? Everything we do contradicts the supposed mindset we have. Do we have Hostels where we secretly torture people to death to appease our bloodlust or something?



Your mindset is the same however, as a result of international pressure and your image, you can't go out and wipe the Palestinians out. I remember you once slipping by saying that you wished the Palestinians would somehow "spontaneously combust".

If Israel was told that no one would care if Palestine disappeared, I'm sure they would disappear.


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## WakaFlocka (Mar 23, 2011)

I think one way of putting pressure on Hamas would be an alliance between Israel and the PA. This would include conceding all settlement expansion in the West Bank. An enemy of an enemy is a friend one would think. Seeing an alliance between the PA and Israel could show the people who support Hamas that their strategy for freedom is not working. 

Also there seem to be several comments along the lines of "thats what happens when you live with terrorists." But its not like these people can just get up and move anywhere. They are stuck in Gaza for the long haul or until the blockade is lifted and Israel allows Palestinians to go somewhere else which is unsafe because it opens gates for Hamas to smuggle arms. This is a huge clusterfuck without a simple answer but if the PA who seem like the more rational Palestinian leadership at the moment and Israel join forces changes could be possible.


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## Darklyre (Mar 23, 2011)

Syed said:


> Israel kills Palestinian civilians? Oh my god really?! *sarcasm*.
> 
> Poor kids. Can't imagine what the mothers must be feeling.



not much after they likely died in that same artillery strike, I reckon


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## Syed (Mar 23, 2011)

Darklyre said:


> not much after they likely died in that same artillery strike, I reckon



Man...that's fucking depressing.


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## Megaharrison (Mar 23, 2011)

White Tiger said:


> Your mindset is the same however, as a result of international pressure and your image, you can't go out and wipe the Palestinians out. I remember you once slipping by saying that you wished the Palestinians would somehow "spontaneously combust".
> 
> If Israel was told that no one would care if Palestine disappeared, I'm sure they would disappear.



So all of this for you is based upon the pure speculation of the hidden intent that by some sort of hivemind all Israeli's secretly maintain? Great job at proving your point.

Also, source for that supposed comment of mine.


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## butcher50 (Mar 23, 2011)

White Tiger said:


> Your mindset is the same however, as a result of international pressure and your image, you can't go out and wipe the Palestinians out. I remember you once slipping by saying that you wished the Palestinians would somehow "spontaneously combust".
> 
> *If Israel was told that no one would care if Palestine disappeared, I'm sure they would disappear*.



drop the accusation act, sardine.

for this to happen, you will need every single soldier and commanding officer to have the exact same conviction about this issue and how to physically solve it.

not gonna happen.

we are not a fucking hive-mind.

the rest of the world can tell us that it completely doesn't gives a fuck anymore about the Palestinian population problem tomorrow and the grunts and officers will still find themselves extremely hard-pressed and unruly to pull the trigger directly and intentionally against what is visibly an unarmed, neutral civilian human being that only minds his/her own business and doesn't bothers anyone.

even in the face of jail time punishments for insubordination.


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## Emasculation Storm (Mar 23, 2011)

> On Saturday, Palestinian militants fired a barrage of rockets over the frontier, prompting Israeli retaliation.



Palestinians are lucky Israel didn't match them rocket for rocket.


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## butcher50 (Mar 23, 2011)

Emasculation Storm said:


> Palestinians are lucky Israel didn't match them rocket for rocket.



Palestinians need to listen to some heavy-metal songs

there are some catchy tunes with which they can identify with such as _"Bite the HAND THAT FEEEEDDDDDDSS YOU"_ and _"BLEEEEED FOR NOTHING, BLEEEEED FOR NOTHING"_


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## Bill_gates (Mar 23, 2011)

Emasculation Storm said:


> Palestinians are lucky Israel didn't match them rocket for rocket.



theres still time


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## Terra Branford (Mar 23, 2011)

I wonder what could be done to make a peace treaty between them. :/



> Tragic event, but atleast Israel didnt deliberately target these children.


They never deliberately target innocents people. But OP always makes threads about Israeli and continues to try and make it seem as if they do kill innocents deliberately.



White Tiger said:


> I also dislike the Pakistani, Saudi, Palestinian, Libyan well in fact, most if not all of the governments of the Islamic nations.
> 
> Guess that makes me an anti Muslim as well with your logic.
> 
> I'm not an anti Semite. I dislike the Israeli government and the actions of the American military. This does not automatically make me bigoted towards the American and Jewish public.



Really? All I ever seen from you are justifications for Islamic States, hatred for Israel/America and never anything to say against Islamic States. Wasn't it you who freaked out over another member saying Iranian news isn't to be trusted?  And wasn't it you who generalized all of American for a few soldiers' actions? Yes yes...I'm sure that was you.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Because you place sympathy no matter what happens (the Palestinian man murdering the family. Or how about when that article came out about the two Palestinians residents being shot at and accusing the man who shot them of lying and out for "Muslim" blood?) on Pakistan etc etc. Not only this, but you make the most anti-Semite and Anti-American posts/threads and continue to do so. You make absurd generalizations against Americans (and America)/Jewish(Israeli), you have called the Jewish people and Israeli "trash" before or was it you defending them being labeled as trash? You say America and Americans kill innocent people all the time etc etc.

Because ,  (justifications behind "reasons"? Really Tiger?),  (OH MY! Even more justifications behind past problems?),  (where you use one death to ask why Israeli asks why they get bombed by Hamas. Or-Or when you blamed Israeli for water shortage in Palestine?),  ("Happens all the time" Sounds so...full of love. Which is also wrong. Let us talk about Pakistan ect etc?), (when you said Israeli should give Hamas whatever the hell they wanted so that Hamas would stop shooting them and killing people),  (in same thread as the last.),  and  (when you defended Hamas)?  Or when you take accidental kills from Israel after Palestine/Hamas attacks and label the entire country or its people as disgusting and murderers? Or, Megaharrison has read it before too I think, when you said the Iranian controlled media is a legitimate (what?) source to go by?

Or how you are hell bent on making Israeli "teh evilezt country" in the world? And those posts were just from anti-Israeli threads YOU made. I wonder how much you do this in other threads created by other members here...? All of your "Israelizz arez bads" threads show exactly how you feel about the Jewish and Israeli. Look at how you so lowly try to justify or give reason behind your posts to Palestinians murdering Israel citizens!

Or how about when you said Jewish people are the scum of the Earth because I and another, said the Taliban -- A FRIGGIN' TERRORIST GROUP! -- are the scum of the Earth? Or when you defended a country that's known to lie (and has actually fabricated evidence!) about news/events? I believe it was an Iranian (or was it a Palestinian?) or Iranian New team that fabricated news/pictures/events...

Because all of your posts, threads and attitude just shows so much compassion and love for Israeli and America! 

Yes, you are right. Hating the Israeli government doesn't automatically make you a bigot. The actions, posts, threads and attitude you have placed on yourself revolving the Jewish people/Israeli and Americans/America shows just how much of a bigot you really are.




You go out of your way (Hi I'm God even noticed it) to make Israeli threads, especially on accidental kills through war shots provoked by Palestine and seek out a hidden agenda behind it and try to paint all the people of Israeli, as murderers.

Whether you want to admit it or not, you are very much anti-Semite and Anti-American.


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## WakaFlocka (Mar 24, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> I wonder what could be done to make a peace treaty between them. :/
> 
> 
> They never deliberately target innocents people. But OP always makes threads about Israeli and continues to try and make it seem as if they do kill innocents deliberately.
> ...



None of the things you posted are Anti-Semetic. Just because someone is anti Israel does not mean they are Anti-Semetic. White Tiger seems to be criticizing Israel and not Jews. Stop trying to prove a point that doesn't exist because you look like an idiot. Everyone has an agenda. Megaharrison's is pro-Israel and White Tiger's is anti-Israel. They post what their viewpoints are and post relevant topics they hope back up their beliefs. Just because a poster feels differently than you doesn't mean you can accuse him of being bigoted. This is coming from a Jew.


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## Terra Branford (Mar 24, 2011)

WakaFlocka said:


> None of the things you posted are Anti-Semetic. Just because someone is anti Israel does not mean they are Anti-Semetic. White Tiger seems to be criticizing Israel and not Jews. Stop trying to prove a point that doesn't exist because you look like an idiot. Everyone has an agenda. Megaharrison's is pro-Israel and White Tiger's is anti-Israel. They post what their viewpoints are and post relevant topics they hope back up their beliefs. Just because a poster feels differently than you doesn't mean you can accuse him of being bigoted. This is coming from a Jew.



*Spoiler*: __ 




Really now? When you continue to try and demonize a nation (Israeli) and the Jewish people (you obviously have not had a lot of discussions with White Tiger! lol) and do your honest best to make Palestine the angel out of the two by going as far as defending their attacks on Israeli (Sorry you missed that!) it is anti-Semite.

I'm pretty sure there are a lot of Jews here who see what Tiger has said about Israeli and the Jewish people before as wrong, myself included.

And coming from someone who has seen White Tiger's (he was known as something Nyn then, I think?) anger and hatred toward Israeli and the Jewish people (others too!) and the bias he applies to his thread and the anger he gets when someone says something to defend Israel's actions, is enough to show he is Anti-Semite. White Tiger blinds himself with anger (I have seen it before!) and Megaharrison cannot be compared with him. Their views are different yes and this isn't the problem (sad that you pulled that out of nowhere :/), the problem is WT's views about Israel AND the Jewish people. Mega has never stooped to WT's level before and just...wow, I guess you would really have to be around for a while to understand the differences.

I wouldn't care (okay, maybe a little bit) if WT was anti-Israeli, but that's not the case. He's very much anti-Semite. You would literally have to read all his posts in the news and the posts he's made in the debate section to fully understand how anti-Semite he is. 

If only you knew White Tiger better and got to know just how much he hates. *looks at join date* Yup, you couldn't possible get the full gist of White Tiger's hatred. Try this again once you see how he talks about the Jewish again, because its really anti-Semite. 

Damn! If this is true and doing this doesn't lead to be anti-insertwordhere then by golly-gee and all that is Mighty, there is no such thing as Anti-Semite or anti-whatever! What a perfect world we live in today!

If actions and words doesn't speak for itself then maybe you need to meet some other Anti-Semites. I could point you in the direction of a lot of them. And I've dealt with so many of them before so I can see the signs and the hatred WT has.

But sure, buddy. Having a hatred toward a nation and their people and continuing to show it totally isn't being anti-insertwordhere.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 24, 2011)

Where's the thread for the bombing the Palestinians did the other day White Tiger? Biased much? 

See what makes this okay and that not, is this wasn't aimed at civilians, the terrorists just happen to care so much they use children to hide behind. Man, they sound like brave soldiers of God.


----------



## Mathias124 (Mar 24, 2011)

Coteaz said:


> Sounds like a successful strike.
> 
> *Maybe if the Palestinians would lay down their arms and cease all hostilities, these unfortunate events wouldn't happen*.



Quoted for truth


----------



## WakaFlocka (Mar 24, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



OK, then why were all your links, things that were not anti-Semitic? So far in looking at WT's posts as well as the links you provided I have not seen a single anti-Semitic thing. You are still mixing up Ant-Semitic and Anti-Israel. Case in point, right now I am anti-Israeli government because they won't be the bigger country that I expect them to be and stop settlement building in the West Bank. this doesn't make me Anti-Semitic I just don't like Israeli policy at the moment. This also doesn't mean I am pro-Hamas either. You are confusing me, what do you believe constitutes as Anti-Semitism?


----------



## Xyloxi (Mar 24, 2011)

I don't think they are qany anti-Semites in the Café anyway, unless we count that Saudi woman or Nagatopwnsall because Jews are a minority in the US. White Tiger is staunchly anti-Israel, but I've never seen him say anything Anti-Semitic against the Jews themselves, purely against Zionists. The problem with that is people interpret Zionism to be the ideological beliefs of people like the settlers and very Orthodox Jews, where in reality it has a very broad spectrum of viewpoints, just like nationalism does.


----------



## The Pink Ninja (Mar 24, 2011)

No shortage of Islamaphobes though


----------



## Mael (Mar 24, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> No shortage of Islamaphobes though



Rush's reach is loooooooooooooooooooong.


----------



## -Dargor- (Mar 24, 2011)

Here's a quick run down of history for the idiots in the room.

Allies win WW2
WW2 ends
Jews complain about having no land
Allies don't give a damn
Allies kick palestinians out of "Israel" and say now this is Jew land.
"Israel" becomes one of the biggest douche country in modern history.
Palestinians become more and more desperate with each passing decade.

And that's where we're at right now.

Now, please, keep spewing more of that evil terrorists routine.

I couldn't care less about Jews around the world, but Israel as a nation is a pile of crap built on stolen land. Just concider yourselves lucky native-americans are so easy going


----------



## Mael (Mar 24, 2011)

-Dargor- said:


> Here's a quick run down of history for the idiots in the room.
> 
> Allies win WW2
> WW2 ends
> ...



Cool story, Carlos Latuff.  You act as if the desperation is the sole thing, and Iran's interference doesn't keep it going.

Does this anger towards a piece of land stem from the fact you're Quebecois, where no one cares about sovereignty there?


----------



## WT (Mar 24, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> I wonder what could be done to make a peace treaty between them. :/
> 
> 
> They never deliberately target innocents people. But OP always makes threads about Israeli and continues to try and make it seem as if they do kill innocents deliberately.
> ...



I'll be the first to admit things but regardless of that, 

Please keep posting Terra. Your only humiliating yourself with your blind accusations. Its no secret that I'm against Israel's policies, but calling me Anti Semitic without any evidence is rather pathetic, but then again, its something I'd expect from you. How can I hate the Jews, when they were the children of Prophets?

Secondly, its the same with America. I dislike the policies but not the people or the country itself. There are times where I have praised it. I admit that I messed up when it came off that I was saying the American Military represents its people. That was wrong and I did apologize to quite a few of the posters. I actually meant to say that the American Military represents America in the same way any other Military represents its country.

In addition to this, I don't need to make threads about other countries to prove that I dislike their policies.


----------



## WT (Mar 24, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Where's the thread for the bombing the Palestinians did the other day White Tiger? Biased much?
> 
> See what makes this okay and that not, is this wasn't aimed at civilians, the terrorists just happen to care so much they use children to hide behind. Man, they sound like brave soldiers of God.



Your flaw is that the Palestinians and Israeli's can't be compared on the same level. For a fair comparison, they must have had the same treatment for generations, however, that was not the case. The mindset adopted by Hamas was the result of Israeli occupation.

Like I've said before, we can't freeze this moment in time and use only this information to analyze the events.


----------



## Perseverance (Mar 24, 2011)

Obvious Zionists actions are obvious lol


----------



## Terra Branford (Mar 24, 2011)

White Tiger said:


> I'll be the first to admit things but regardless of that,
> 
> Please keep posting Terra. Your only humiliating yourself with your blind accusations. Its no secret that I'm against Israel's policies, but calling me Anti Semitic without any evidence is rather pathetic, but then again, its something I'd expect from you. How can I hate the Jews, when they were the children of Prophets?
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 




I have a hard time believing you'd admit to being anti-Semite. 

Funny how others have seen your bias toward the Israeli and her people as well. Its not just me. :/ 

The evidence is your actions and words, White Tiger. As I've said before, if actions and words doesn't speak for itself, then what does? 

If one cannot be judged by his actions and words, then how does one know who is anti-insertword? If one cannot see by actions and words, how can there exist anti-insertword in the world? Do you honestly think anti-Semites/Anti-Americans/Anti-whatevers go about going "Hiya, I'm anti-whatever! Nice to meet you!" No, they do not.

Going by that, no anti-insertwordhere *actually exists* in the world if words and actions *no longer provide anything*. Also, since actions/attitude/words no longer hold a bearing to being an anti-insertwordhere, then I suppose the people in Egypt (And else where) calling for Israeli to fall and burn as well as the Jewish people, aren't Anti-Semite? I mean damn...their actions and attitude toward Israeli and her people can't POSSIBLY lead to being an anti-Semite, right?

No, you don't need the threads to dislike their policies. But your bias toward (you bashing) Israeli and her people is abundantly clear (I know a few people who have seen it as well). How many times have you justified Palestinian actions despite the article reading Israeli as counter-attacking and defending itself? How many threads do you paint Israeli and her people are murders when they defend themselves? Wasn't it you who tried repaint history in the debate thread to claim that Jews were never slaves? Wasn't it you who said the Jews never became slaves or were slaughtered? Wasn't it you justifying slaughter to the Jews? Yes...yes it was you. 

You do this a lot. Here is a pretty recent anti-American thread and post. Just read the whole thing. *sigh*


			
				White Tiger said:
			
		

> Behold, this is the great civilized western civilization with all these amazing values they boast about.
> 
> To be honest, the only thing that's changed since the barbaric middle ages is that the west has now learn't how to hide their killings and lie just about everything.



Or how about this? 

*Spoiler*: __ 




I had hoped you were only kidding and being sarcastic, but when you continued without directing my question and continued with your "views" on Israeli and whatnot, I quickly realized what you really felt about Israeli/Jewish people.


Terra Branford said:


> .....
> 
> Al-Qa'ida and the Taliban are the scum of the Earth.
> 
> ...



You "conveniently" didn't answer my question. I can't believe you called Jewish people the scum of the Earth over me calling the Taliban/etc the scum of the Earth.

Just pathetic.




But if you actually think you aren't Anti-Semite then golly-gee, live that fantasy WT.






> Your flaw is that the Palestinians and Israeli's can't be compared on the same level. For a fair comparison, they must have had the same treatment for generations, however, that was not the case. The mindset adopted by Hamas was the result of Israeli occupation.


Your flaw is that you cannot comprehend the differences each has. Israeli gets attacked>strikes back>gets attacked>strikes back.

Palestine attacks > kills people > attacks Israeli> cries about it later.

But you are so willing to go the extra mile to defend Palestine and act as if they are the victim, when they go about killing people and attacking Israeli.

Oh my..... 


> *The mindset adopted by Hamas* was the* result of Israeli occupation.*



There you are defending Hamas' actions...again! And you claim you don't defend them when you do post/make Israeli/Palestine threads? Sure, I totally buy you not being anti-Semite.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 25, 2011)

The real point we need to get across here is no one gives a fuck. I don't really much care when their reaction is to basically elect terrorist organizations as their government and continue to perpetrate crimes to intentionally kill civilians. Israel's official policy isn't to wipe out Palestine, in fact there are more Palestinians and they have a high birth rate. Meanwhile the people these Muslim Apologist Whiners defend have done everything they could including hiding where kids are and attacking families intentionally making themselves further look like the kind of people who agree with terrorism when it suits their needs.


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## Xyloxi (Mar 25, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> The real point we need to get across here is no one gives a fuck. I don't really much care when their reaction is to basically elect terrorist organizations as their government and continue to perpetrate crimes to intentionally kill civilians. Israel's official policy isn't to wipe out Palestine, in fact there are more Palestinians and they have a high birth rate. Meanwhile the people these Muslim Apologist Whiners defend have done everything they could including hiding where kids are and attacking families intentionally making themselves further look like the kind of people who agree with terrorism when it suits their needs.



Agreed, also why do people think Zionism means = lets go stab some Palestinian babies, its like saying nationalism = National Socialism.


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## Saf (Mar 25, 2011)

*Saf's tips for handling a bitch!*

If a bitch looks at you funny, you don't merely backhand her. You grab her by the hair, slam her into the ground, and fuck her in the ass with a knife at her throat until she bleeds. Then you hold her skull and force her to look into your eyes as you shove your cock down her throat, constantly reminding her who's in charge here as she slowly blacks out. Then you shove her back in her cage and leave her down there for a few days.

Remember, *she* started it, you're just defending your masculine honor. As long as the bitch continues to run her mouth, why feel sorry for her? You can't reason with a woman's subhuman, singleminded logic. Besides, look at what that whore was wearing when you took her off the streets. Bitch was just asking for a good, deep dicking.


----------



## WT (Mar 25, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 





 Disliking Jewish people because their Jewish is disgusting and pathetic. Disliking those Jewish people who kill the innocent is perfectly reasonable, in the same exact way hating on Muslims who kill and discriminate against other is also acceptable. 

This is the difference you can't seem to be getting. As for my words, they account for the fact that I dislike Israel's policies, it says nothing about hating Jewish people because they are Jews. 

The rest of your post is a load of rubbish. 



> There you are defending Hamas' actions...again! And you claim you don't defend them when you do post/make Israeli/Palestine threads? Sure, I totally buy you not being anti-Semite.




Explaining the reasons why Hamas is doing what they are is not defending. 

Here's what I'm saying:

"Hamas is doing this as a result of a very long conflict. The whole situation must be analyzed before one can understand their reasons. Once their reason is understood, perhaps there is a way in which the situation can be resolved with both parties accepting this resolve"

Here's defending Hamas:

"Hamas doesn't kill innocent people, they accidentally shot their rockets their. Besides if they do, its because the children are evil anyway"

The fact that you can't make this basic distinction shows your mental level. 

Grow up and stop the accusations without any legitimate proof. 



(By the way, I'm not as extreme as these guys, I support a two state solution).


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 25, 2011)

White Tiger said:


> Disliking Jewish people because their Jewish is disgusting and pathetic. Disliking those Jewish people who kill the innocent is perfectly reasonable, in the same exact way hating on Muslims who kill and discriminate against other is also acceptable.
> 
> This is the difference you can't seem to be getting. As for my words, they account for the fact that I dislike Israel's policies, it says nothing about hating Jewish people because they are Jews.
> 
> ...



Sure, most likely story. 

"I'm not defending the rapist, but if she hadn't dressed like that, he wouldn't have had to rape her".


----------



## WakaFlocka (Mar 25, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Sure, most likely story.
> 
> "I'm not defending the rapist, but if she hadn't dressed like that, he wouldn't have had to rape her".



That is not an equivalent. An equivalent would be if the rape victim had kicked the rapist out of his home before he was a rapist which caused him to get back at her by raping her. after being raped the victim responds by killing the rapist as well as people who lived close by, by accident but does not suffer any punishment for it because she killed the rapist.  Both are in the wrong in that instance as both are in the wrong in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. This is not that difficult to understand.


----------



## hcheng02 (Mar 25, 2011)

WakaFlocka said:


> That is not an equivalent. An equivalent would be if the rape victim had kicked the rapist out of his home before he was a rapist which caused him to get back at her by raping her. after being raped the victim responds by killing the rapist as well as people who lived close by, by accident but does not suffer any punishment for it because she killed the rapist.  Both are in the wrong in that instance as both are in the wrong in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. This is not that difficult to understand.



Except that the rapist here had never owned his house. He had rented it from someone, and that owner decided to sell it to someone else which is perfectly legal. The rapist then raped the person who bought the house and gathered a bunch of his friends to kill the victim and his entire family to take back "his" house. Unfortunately, the victim brought stronger friends and kicked the crap out of the rapist and his posse.


----------



## Pesha (Mar 25, 2011)

Sigh.. these analogies make me feel so violated...


----------



## WT (Mar 25, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Sure, most likely story.
> 
> "I'm not defending the rapist, but if she hadn't dressed like that, he wouldn't have had to rape her".



Its actually quite hilarious how oversimplified and down right stupid this analogy is.


----------



## Saf (Mar 25, 2011)

White Tiger said:


> Its actually quite hilarious how oversimplified and down right stupid this analogy is.


Especially when I used the exact same analogy to greater effect a few posts before.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 26, 2011)

White Tiger said:


> Its actually quite hilarious how oversimplified and down right stupid this analogy is.


It's simplified because you don't seem to get the situation. Sorry I can't draw it out in crayons and my own excrement to better grab your attention but here's a better one, the Palestinians have about as much claim to the land as I have to the moon or the constellation Orion that is to say none, the land was owned by someone else when it was given to Israel and if Palestinians valued their children more than some stupid blood feud they'd realize that they're not winning a fight with Israel and besides the kind words and posters no one backing them up.


----------



## WT (Mar 26, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> It's simplified because you don't seem to get the situation. Sorry I can't draw it out in crayons and my own excrement to better grab your attention but here's a better one, the Palestinians have about as much claim to the land as I have to the moon or the constellation Orion that is to say none, the land was owned by someone else when it was given to Israel and if Palestinians valued their children more than some stupid blood feud they'd realize that they're not winning a fight with Israel and besides the kind words and posters no one backing them up.



Oh I get the situation alright, I think its you who doesn't:

1) During the First world war, as the Ottoman empire is weakening, the British (Lawrence of Arabia) persuade an Arab (he was the governor of of Mecca/Madinah) to help dismantle the Ottoman empire and return, the Arabs will be offered an independent state which includes all of Palestine.

2) The Arabs played their part.

3) The British out of nowhere went against the agreement and promised part of the land to the Zionists.

Your right, at the time, the land did not belong to the Arabs, however, there was an agreement that it would, i.e. in exchange for the dismantling of the Ottoman empire, the British would promise the Arabs of a state which they could claim for themselves.  

You like anologies don't you?

Well, here is the most appropriate one:

There are 3 people. A fucking asshole of a Bully, the victim and some third person.

The Bully terrorizes the victim, for years and years. However, eventually, the Bully realizes he was in the wrong (about time). As a result, the Bully tells the victim to claim revenge on the 3rd person. As that happens, the 3rd person retaliates but the Bully and the victim team up and basically batter the 3rd person for retaliating. 

How is this relevent:

The Europeans all the way from the middle ages (and before) till 1945 murdered and discriminated against the Jews. However, realizing they were in the wrong (and they damn well were), violated a deal with the Arabs and forced them to forfeit their land to compensate the Jews for Europe's vile crimes against them.

Now that the Arabs have retaliated, they somehow have become the "bad guys", when it was them who in the middle ages were the only source of sanctuary and protection for the Jews. Sure there were incidences but the fact of the matter is that when the Muslims ruled, 


And you think its the Arabs who are Antisemitic?

You have the fucking nerve to think that.


----------



## alchemy1234 (Mar 26, 2011)

Saf said:


> *Saf's tips for handling a bitch!*
> 
> If a bitch looks at you funny, you don't merely backhand her. You grab her by the hair, slam her into the ground, and fuck her in the ass with a knife at her throat until she bleeds. Then you hold her skull and force her to look into your eyes as you shove your cock down her throat, constantly reminding her who's in charge here as she slowly blacks out. Then you shove her back in her cage and leave her down there for a few days.
> 
> Remember, *she* started it, you're just defending your masculine honor. As long as the bitch continues to run her mouth, why feel sorry for her? You can't reason with a woman's subhuman, singleminded logic. Besides, look at what that whore was wearing when you took her off the streets. Bitch was just asking for a good, deep dicking.



this is actually a pretty good post.


----------



## hcheng02 (Mar 26, 2011)

White Tiger said:


> Oh I get the situation alright, I think its you who doesn't:
> 
> 1) During the First world war, as the Ottoman empire is weakening, the British (Lawrence of Arabia) persuade an Arab (he was the governor of of Mecca/Madinah) to help dismantle the Ottoman empire and return, the Arabs will be offered an independent state which includes all of Palestine.
> 
> ...



And the British did give the Arabs a state. Its called Jordan, and Jews to this day are not allowed in it. Mind you, the Hashemites got control of it by marching their army to the British Mandate and demanding control after losing a power struggle with the House of Saud. Also note the British initially wanted to split the remaining land in to two states - one for the Jews and one for the Arabs. So the Arabs would have gotten two states and a majority of the land whereas the Jews only gotten a small piece. But that wasn't good enough for the Arabs, whose efforts I might add were not as impressive as they make them out to be. Lawrence of Arabia was a mere sideshow in the grander scheme of the war. 



> You like anologies don't you?
> 
> Well, here is the most appropriate one:
> 
> ...



The Arabs are fucking anti-Semitic considering how they blame the Jews for fucking everything wrong with their lives. If your cultural reflex is to say, "I bet the Jews did this!" then yes, you are anti-Semitic. Quit bringing up how the Arabs USED to treat the Jews RELATIVELY better than the Europeans CENTURIES ago. I capitalized the important words so you can better process them. The better treatment was in the past. Since then Europe has progressed and the Arabs have gone backwards, and it is the undeniable that NOW - the time that matters - and for the foreseeable future the West is treating the Jews better than the Arabs will. It should be noted that the Jews were still considered inferior and they were subjected to discriminatory practices by law.

I should also note that those "Arabs who retaliated" fought on the side of the Nazis and lost. You lose a war, you lose your land to the victors. Right of conquest works both ways.


----------



## sadated_peon (Mar 26, 2011)

White Tiger said:


> Oh I get the situation alright, I think its you who doesn't:
> 
> 1) During the First world war, as the Ottoman empire is weakening, the British (Lawrence of Arabia) persuade an Arab (he was the governor of of Mecca/Madinah) to help dismantle the Ottoman empire and return, the Arabs will be offered an independent state which includes all of Palestine.
> 
> ...


Palestine was never included in the deal.



> it is not the case, as has been represented by the Arab Delegation, that during the war His Majesty's Government gave an undertaking that an independent national government should be at once established in Palestine. This representation mainly rests upon a letter dated the 24th October, 1915, from Sir Henry McMahon, then His Majesty's High Commissioner in Egypt, to the Sharif of Mecca, now King Hussein of the Kingdom of the Hejaz. That letter is quoted as conveying the promise to the Sherif of Mecca to recognise and support the independence of the Arabs within the territories proposed by him. But this promise was given subject to a reservation made in the same letter, which excluded from its scope, among other territories, the portions of Syria lying to the west of the District of Damascus. This reservation has always been regarded by His Majesty's Government as covering the vilayet of Beirut and the independent Sanjak of Jerusalem. The whole of Palestine west of the Jordan was thus excluded from Sir. Henry McMahon's pledge


----------



## Yachiru (Mar 26, 2011)

Can someone please _logically_ tell me how the heck this is news?


----------



## WT (Mar 27, 2011)

hcheng02 said:


> The Arabs are fucking anti-Semitic considering how they blame the Jews for fucking everything wrong with their lives. If your cultural reflex is to say, "I bet the Jews did this!" then yes, you are anti-Semitic. Quit bringing up how the Arabs USED to treat the Jews RELATIVELY better than the Europeans CENTURIES ago. I capitalized the important words so you can better process them. The better treatment was in the past. Since then Europe has progressed and the Arabs have gone backwards, and it is the undeniable that NOW - the time that matters - and for the foreseeable future the West is treating the Jews better than the Arabs will. It should be noted that the Jews were still considered inferior and they were subjected to discriminatory practices by law.



If there is an element of Antisemitism, it isn't as a result of simply: "We hate/blame the Jews because they are Jews".

Its because "We hate/blame the Jews because of the injustice that has happened".

You may be right, Europe is more tolerant to the Jews relative to the Arab countries. Its only *because* of what happened those years ago.

This tolerance the Europeans provide is at the expense of the injustice done to the Arabs.

I wonder how the different the tolerance levels would have been, if instead of current Israel but Germany was given to the Jews. 

Suppose that happened, would the Arab still consider the "new Israel" as their enemy? Would Iran do what it does? Would there have been a Hamas? How would have other Europeans reacted?


----------



## Saf (Mar 27, 2011)

People are racist??? NF Cafe investigates.


----------



## WakaFlocka (Mar 27, 2011)

Isn't Anti-Semitic hatred of all middle eastern people as well as Jews? so then Arabs would have to hate themselves.


----------



## Saufsoldat (Mar 27, 2011)

WakaFlocka said:


> Isn't Anti-Semitic hatred of all middle eastern people as well as Jews?



No                 .


----------



## Syed (Mar 27, 2011)

hcheng02 said:


> *The Arabs are fucking anti-Semitic *.



What are you ignorant? The Arabs are themselves Semitic, heck they're probably more Semitic than European Jews. 

Stop using the anti-semitic bull for flippin' everything, it's annoying as fuck.


----------



## Saf (Mar 27, 2011)

Wikipedia said:
			
		

> While the term's etymology might suggest that antisemitism is directed against all Semitic peoples, the term was coined in the late 19th century in Germany as a more scientific-sounding term for Judenhass ("Jew-hatred"),[2] and that has been its normal use since then.[3]


When would you even need a word to refer to hatred towards Semetic peoples?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 27, 2011)

Syed said:


> What are you ignorant? The Arabs are themselves Semitic, heck they're probably more Semitic than European Jews.
> 
> Stop using the anti-semitic bull for flippin' everything, it's annoying as fuck.


Judging by how the Palestinians keep fighting a losing war and jumping to the slaughter, they must hate themselves at least a little.


----------



## Syed (Mar 27, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Judging by how the Palestinians keep fighting a losing war and jumping to the slaughter, they must hate themselves at least a little.



Well at least they aren't giving in to Israeli aggression.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 27, 2011)

Syed said:


> Well at least they aren't giving in to Israeli aggression.


That just sounds stupid, even during cease fires they're attacking, they're part of the aggression thus they deserve this ass kicking. You can't use the bully excuse when you're going up and starting some of the fights. Someone deserves to get their ass kicked then.

And if they're so helpless they wouldn't be aggressive when there's not reason. 

And if the rest of the Arab world cared they would actually do something more than parade around the streets with flags and chanting. Israel gives Palestine more aid than most Arabic countries, the Gaza people turn down some aid.


----------



## Syed (Mar 27, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> That just sounds stupid, even during cease fires they're attacking, they're part of the aggression thus they deserve this ass kicking. You can't use the bully excuse when you're going up and starting some of the fights. Someone deserves to get their ass kicked then.
> 
> And if they're so helpless they wouldn't be aggressive when there's not reason.
> 
> *And if the rest of the Arab world cared they would actually do something more than parade around the streets with flags and chanting.* Israel gives Palestine more aid than most Arabic countries, the Gaza people turn down some aid.



Israel is way more aggressive than the Palestinians. They do more damage and kill more people. Heck more of the west bank is being taken year after year. Israel isn't the one losing land BTW.

Of course the Palestinians aren't helpless. Would you be if someone was taking your land by building settlements? I'd fight back.

The Arab countries are rebelling against their US puppet leaders. They want fair treatment, democracy and not dictatorship. Israel prides itself as the only democracy in the Middle East so naturally they should be ecstatic there will be more democratic countries. Unless they didn't want the dictators like Mubarak to be taken down.

Once those puppets are taken out, especially the Saudi's, than the Arabs will do something for the Palestinians.


----------



## Saufsoldat (Mar 27, 2011)

Syed said:


> Israel is way more aggressive than the Palestinians. They do more damage and kill more people. Heck more of the west bank is being taken year after year. Israel isn't the one losing land BTW.



Every time Israel makes concessions, they get a slap in the face as a reward. When was the last time Hamas has shown itself willing to talk reasonably? Right, never.



> Of course the Palestinians aren't helpless. Would you be if someone was taking your land by building settlements? I'd fight back.



By murdering those that settle there?



> The Arab countries are rebelling against their US puppet leaders. They want fair treatment, democracy and not dictatorship. Israel prides itself as the only democracy in the Middle East so naturally they should be ecstatic there will be more democratic countries. Unless they didn't want the dictators like Mubarak to be taken down.



You mean like Iran rebelled and achieved democracy? So far attempts at democracy in the middle east were thoroughly destroyed by Islam.



> Once those puppets are taken out, especially the Saudi's, than the Arabs will do something for the Palestinians.



Another war? Great, then Israel will have even more land.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 27, 2011)

Syed said:


> Israel is way more aggressive than the Palestinians. They do more damage and kill more people. Heck more of the west bank is being taken year after year. Israel isn't the one losing land BTW.
> 
> Of course the Palestinians aren't helpless. Would you be if someone was taking your land by building settlements? I'd fight back.
> 
> ...



Everything you just said reads like nonsense. The Arab world has historically shunned democracy in any true form and Iran is proof of that. They want to act like they're up to par with the rest of the world in the ways of government but when it comes time they just regress into a worse position than they were in. 

And its funny how you're talking about puppet governments when of the governments over there we've helped them out of these so called "puppet" positions. 

The perception of the world they have and the perception the rest of the world have seems odd when they beg for help, get it and then complain they were helped. If not for assistance from outside, they wouldn't be getting free and I really think they shouldn't have gotten assistance since they were so adamant about not wanting us over there. Let them suffer alone, no need to risk out people on it.


----------



## Syed (Mar 27, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Everything you just said reads like nonsense. *The Arab world has historically shunned democracy in any true form and Iran is proof of that. They want to act like they're up to par with the rest of the world in the ways of government but when it comes time they just regress into a worse position than they were in.
> *
> And its funny how you're talking about puppet governments when of the governments over there we've helped them out of these so called "puppet" positions.
> 
> The perception of the world they have and the perception the rest of the world have seems odd when they beg for help, get it and then complain they were helped. If not for assistance from outside, they wouldn't be getting free and I really think they shouldn't have gotten assistance since they were so adamant about not wanting us over there. Let them suffer alone, no need to risk out people on it.



Really? The Arabs don't want democracy? We'll see because I believe they do. People could have said the same for many of the South American countries as well. 

BTW the Iranians are NOT Arabs. They are Persians. Call any Irani an Arab and they'll fucking beat the shit out of you. Iran is NOT part of the Arab world.

Also please show me some of these countries backed by the USA that have been toppled by the USA?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 27, 2011)

Syed said:


> Really? The Arabs don't want democracy? We'll see because I believe they do. People could have said the same for many of the South American countries as well.
> 
> BTW the Iranians are NOT Arabs. They are Persians. Call any Irani an Arab and they'll fucking beat the shit out of you. Iran is NOT part of the Arab world.
> 
> Also please show me some of these countries backed by the USA that have been toppled by the USA?


We did topple Iraq and people there did want that at first, the Taliban was toppled by us, no one there liked them. We're helping in Lybia now for the same reason. 

The point you don't seem to get is we're not required to help, just because you're the bigger more powerful country doesn't mean shit. 

And just because you're weaker doesn't mean you can't get your ass kicked for starting something which is a lesson Gaza has yet to learn.


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## Syed (Mar 27, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> We did topple Iraq and people there did want that at first, the Taliban was toppled by us, no one there liked them. We're helping in Lybia now for the same reason.
> 
> The point you don't seem to get is we're not required to help, just because you're the bigger more powerful country doesn't mean shit.
> 
> And just because you're weaker doesn't mean you can't get your ass kicked for starting something which is a lesson Gaza has yet to learn.



People didn't want Saddam to be toppled, at least the Iraqi's didn't. The reasons the US even went into Iraq was cause Saddam was getting too powerful in the Middle East and he had oil. If anything the US made Iraq into a crap hole after the invasion. 

The US likes to meddle with stuff in the ME all the time. They don't have to support Israel or Saudi Arabia but they still do. 

I think there should be a consequence if a group of people are attacking from Gaza. BUT, killing the innocents all around them is kinda stupid and claiming they are all just accidents.


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## N120 (Mar 27, 2011)

^They need to meddle in the ME to secure resources and vital trading routes.

As for the people of gaza, it doesnt matter if they are innocent or not, it really make no difference.


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## Saf (Mar 27, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> And just because you're weaker doesn't mean you can't get your ass kicked for starting something which is a lesson Gaza has yet to learn.


If a bitch gets mouthy, you pop her across the mouth. Only way she'll learn to keep her mouth shut.


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## Saufsoldat (Mar 27, 2011)

Syed said:


> I think there should be a consequence if a group of people are attacking from Gaza. BUT, killing the innocents all around them is kinda stupid and claiming they are all just accidents.



"killing innocents all around them"? Complete bullshit, if Israel really did that, then you'd have something resembling a death toll in Gaza. About 6300 Palestinians have been killed by the IDF since 2000. That includes both civilians and Hamas. Maybe if Hamas stopped firing their rockets from civilian areas, then such accidents wouldn't happen as often.


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## Saf (Mar 27, 2011)

Saufsoldat said:


> "killing innocents all around them"? Complete bullshit, if Israel really did that, then you'd have something resembling a death toll in Gaza. About 6300 Palestinians have been killed by the IDF since 2000. That includes both civilians and Hamas. Maybe if Hamas stopped firing their rockets from civilian areas, then such accidents wouldn't happen as often.


"Whoops, shot a rocket into a civilian area. Who would ever have thought innocent people could die???"

Sorry you find them immoral, but just because a woman is dressed immodestly doesn't give you the right to rip her ass open.


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## Saufsoldat (Mar 27, 2011)

Saf said:


> "Whoops, shot a rocket into a civilian area. Who would ever have thought innocent people could die???"



Again, they're not doing that on purpose but the risk of something like that happening is far greater because of the tactics Hamas employs.



Saf said:


> Sorry you find them immoral, but just because a woman is dressed immodestly doesn't give you the right to rip her ass open.



No, but if someone keeps punching you in the face while blocking every punch you try to make with a toddler, I think I'd mostly blame the guy who keeps punching.


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## Saf (Mar 27, 2011)

And most people who aren't autistic sociopath would know *not to punch a fucking toddler.* You'd just walk away. I mean, realizing you have ultimate responsibility for the choices you make is something that comes early in moral development. It's really that goddamn basic.

Just for the record, in your anology you would keep punching the toddler, right?


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## Saufsoldat (Mar 27, 2011)

Saf said:


> And most people who aren't autistic sociopath would know *not to punch a fucking toddler.* You'd just walk away.



You're a country, you can't walk away. Let's say he gets tired of punching you and starts getting out a knife. How much longer will you just stand there? When will you decide that the toddler isn't worth your life?



> I mean, realizing you have ultimate responsibility for the choices you make is something that comes early in moral development. It's really that goddamn basic.
> 
> Just for the record, in your anology you would keep punching the toddler, right?



Of course not, I'm just trying to show you the situation. There is no perfect analogy, the best thing is still the reality. Would you just keep letting Hamas kill your civilians without fighting back? Israel does everything humanely possible to avoid civilian casualties, but it's Hamas that keeps tossing toddlers at them and then cries when a toddler gets hurt.


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## hcheng02 (Mar 27, 2011)

Yachiru said:


> Can someone please _logically_ tell me how the heck this is news?



It isn't. This is almost on the level of "dog bites man" as news, but hey its the Israelis.



White Tiger said:


> If there is an element of Antisemitism, it isn't as a result of simply: "We hate/blame the Jews because they are Jews".
> 
> Its because "We hate/blame the Jews because of the injustice that has happened".
> 
> ...



Is there some cosmic balance that dictates that only so many Jews can be treated well in the world? Does it say that since the Europeans have decided to treat the Jews decently than the Arabs must treat them like shit to compensate? Keep in mind that the Arabs did plenty to fuck over the Jews. Those innocent oppressed Palestinians helped Hitler send Jews to the death camps. After Israel was created, they kicked out their native Jews despite them living there for centuries, and many places the Palestinians live under oppression just as bad as they do under the Israelis. They have no moral high ground to bitch about Israel.

And no, the Arabs blame the Jews for EVERYTHING, not just so called injustice. There's a reason why they blame the Jews for shitty broadcasting of the World Cup, shark attacks, and for supposedly controlling every dictator on the planet - even sworn enemies like Gaddafi. You're idea that "We hate/blame the Jews because of the injustice that has happened" only works in the sense that the Arabs blame the Jews as the reason for every goddamn injustice to occur in the world - which is anti-Semitic. There are reasons why books like Protocols of the Elders of Zion are best sellers in the Middle East. This antipathy to the Jews even extends to Muslim countries that are not Arab and have nothing to do with Israel like Pakistan and Malaysia who have no problems ignoring shit tons of worse human rights atrocities like those in Africa.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 27, 2011)

Syed said:


> People didn't want Saddam to be toppled, at least the Iraqi's didn't. The reasons the US even went into Iraq was cause Saddam was getting too powerful in the Middle East and he had oil. If anything the US made Iraq into a crap hole after the invasion.



Bull fucking shit, who were those people who pulled his statues down in the streets? Who killed him? It wasn't the US. Stop trying to fill our heads with your revisionist history. A lot of people both in the Western and Arabic world wanted him gone. 



Saf said:


> If a bitch gets mouthy, you pop her across the mouth. Only way she'll learn to keep her mouth shut.



Except that in this case the person isn't just talking, they're plotting terror attacks on innocent people. 

Look if you can't get the difference between open war and people blowing up buses full of innocents...that's not my fault.


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## Zabuzalives (Mar 28, 2011)

Syed said:


> Well at least they aren't giving in to Israeli aggression.



They are just giving in to hate and sinking down to terrorism. Too little character to take a higher road. 

At this rate there Will never be a Palestina and they can mostly blame themselves and their arab "brothers" for that. 

Crying crocodile tears with blood on their hands...


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 28, 2011)

N120 said:


> ^They need to meddle in the ME to secure resources and vital trading routes.
> 
> As for the people of gaza, it doesnt matter if they are innocent or not, it really make no difference.


Trading routes? What is this the fucking 1750s? 

We have the meddle in the Middle East because the people there bitch and moan about no one going to their aid and then turn around and complain when someone does. If I had my way we'd have left the Lyban Rebels fall, there's no reason not to.


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## N120 (Mar 28, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Trading routes? What is this the fucking 1750s?
> 
> We have the meddle in the Middle East because the people there bitch and moan about no one going to their aid and then turn around and complain when someone does. If I had my way we'd have left the Lyban Rebels fall, there's no reason not to.



Shipping,pipelines,cargos,freight,through-roads,access/supply lines etc etc, yeah we still use all these things. what year you living in 2050?

 haha, you really believe your own hype. The reality is most people would be happy if the US and their partners governing these countries fucked off and didnt bother them again. 

And if it were upto you, "you'd leave libya" really?

 then leave, simple.


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## WakaFlocka (Mar 28, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Trading routes? What is this the fucking 1750s?
> 
> We have the meddle in the Middle East because the people there bitch and moan about no one going to their aid and then turn around and complain when someone does. If I had my way we'd have left the Lyban Rebels fall, there's no reason not to.



Well I'm glad your not calling the shots then


----------



## Saf (Mar 28, 2011)

Saufsoldat said:


> Well sorry, I'll never again make an analogy unless it completely reflects reality


Analogy is meant to illustrate a point through symbolism. You set up your symbols and then agreed with me. So I don't really know what you were trying to illustrate?





Saufsoldat said:


> What? Did you even read the article? The second attack hit the right targets, three members of Islamic Jihad were killed. That's three terrorists who won't attack Israel anymore.


You're misusing the term Jihad, first of all. Secondly, individual combatants are a symptom. It's like putting herpes creme on a sore. You're still going to see another outbreak down the line.

Another thing you should realize is, it's human nature to write their own narrative into events. There is no such thing as true narrative existing independent of observers. There is only things happening in passive voice. Some combatants were killed by opposing combatants. That's the only objective measure of the situation you can make. You can write your narrative as the noble IDF striking down terrorists and protecting their citizenry. Another can mold their narrative as honorable martyrs dying in the eternal struggle against the Zionist menace. Neither of stories is true, they are merely a way for people to use external reality to conform to their own moral understandings.





Saufsoldat said:


> Again I ask you to get down from your high horse and tell me what you'd do as Israel. Keep letting them fire rockets into your civilians? Let's not forget that Israel is a democracy. I wouldn't vote for a guy that says he won't do anything about people that try to kill me.


I have no aspirations to be an Israeli politician. So I don't have some ironclad idea of how you could solve the issue. *I'm not a pacifist or against the idea of using force against Palestine*, but you have to work within their narrative, or else you'll never break the cycle.

Though if you want a tangible idea just for the hell of it, why not splash around enough money to expatriate the people of Gaza? Couple this with military tactics against those who stay, and you end up with a narrative that still casts Israel as evil, but with the undeniable objective truth that they freed them from opression. Give it a couple generations and nobody will care about a state of Palestine any more.

That's the biggest problem I have with you people - this idea that Arabs are some savage horde that will not deter in their destruction of Israel and the formation of a Palestinian state. This isn't borne out by history. If you remove the immediate impetus leading people into this mindset, it will work itself out, as it has throughout history, in endless iterations.





Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Except that in this case the person isn't just talking, they're plotting terror attacks on innocent people.


And yet there are people who have the same emotional reaction against it as you do to terror attacks. You do realize there are people out there who would take "Saf's guide to handling a bitch" as gospel truth?

In other words - the bitch doesn't represent Palestine, the writer represents you. Understandably not how you'd first read it, but now that I've nudged you in the right direction, you might find some interesting points.





Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Look if you can't get the difference between open war and people blowing up buses full of innocents...that's not my fault.


This is the 21st century. Warfare has changed drastically in the past century, as has pretty much everything else in the world. You give a people a reason to war, and they will war. Two thousand years ago they would raise phalanxes of Centurions, and today they'll plot a war of terror and propaganda. Nothing other than narrative and romanticism really seperates the two, on a fundamental level.


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## Saufsoldat (Mar 28, 2011)

Saf said:


> Analogy is meant to illustrate a point through symbolism. You set up your symbols and then agreed with me. So I don't really know what you were trying to illustrate?



You're in a situation in which you must act, you can't sit there and let others murder civilians while they use their own civilians as human shields.



> You're misusing the term Jihad, first of all.



Tell it to Islamic Jihad.



> Secondly, individual combatants are a symptom. It's like putting herpes creme on a sore. You're still going to see another outbreak down the line.



Better than doing nothing about it.



> Another thing you should realize is, it's human nature to write their own narrative into events. There is no such thing as true narrative existing independent of observers. There is only things happening in passive voice. Some combatants were killed by opposing combatants. That's the only objective measure of the situation you can make. You can write your narrative as the noble IDF striking down terrorists and protecting their citizenry. Another can mold their narrative as honorable martyrs dying in the eternal struggle against the Zionist menace. Neither of stories is true, they are merely a way for people to use external reality to conform to their own moral understandings.



The sad reality is that the IDF shows more regard for Palestinian civilians than Hamas.



> I have no aspirations to be an Israeli politician. So I don't have some ironclad idea of how you could solve the issue. *I'm not a pacifist or against the idea of using force against Palestine*, but you have to work within their narrative, or else you'll never break the cycle.
> 
> Though if you want a tangible idea just for the hell of it, why not splash around enough money to expatriate the people of Gaza? Couple this with military tactics against those who stay, and you end up with a narrative that still casts Israel as evil, but with the undeniable objective truth that they freed them from opression. Give it a couple generations and nobody will care about a state of Palestine any more.



Who would take them? Palestinian refugees in other countries are worse off than those in Gaza.



> That's the biggest problem I have with you people - this idea that Arabs are some savage horde that will not deter in their destruction of Israel and the formation of a Palestinian state. This isn't borne out by history. If you remove the immediate impetus leading people into this mindset, it will work itself out, as it has throughout history, in endless iterations.And yet there are people who have the same emotional reaction against it as you do to terror attacks. You do realize there are people out there who would take "Saf's guide to handling a bitch" as gospel truth?



Where has Hamas made efforts to put an end to this? When have they been willing to make concessions for the sake of peace? Israel has tried a lot. Slowly retreating and dismantling outposts, sudden and complete retreat from Gaza, offering a two-state solution. So far everything was rejected.


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## Mael (Mar 28, 2011)

Saufsoldat said:


> Where has Hamas made efforts to put an end to this? When have they been willing to make concessions for the sake of peace? Israel has tried a lot. Slowly retreating and dismantling outposts, sudden and complete retreat from Gaza, offering a two-state solution. So far everything was rejected.



You're forgetting, Sauf.

THEY WANT MORE.  Give them an inch, or two, and they'll want a mile, or two.

As displayed by our lovely idealistic pacifists here, Israel needs to allow goods and services in (to be exploited by Hamas), end the naval blockade (to be exploited by Hamas), dismantle the settlements (ok that's a semi-legit one), give Palestine statehood (to be exploited by Hamas), etc.

Only the Noam Chomskys of this forum could think Hamas will stop when Israel has given everything else up.  That's just naive.  Hamas will cease to exist in power if Israel does everything for Palestine.  Iran's influence will cease to exist.  They NEED that scapegoat, so they'll prod and push and keep going until Israel says enough, then turning the blame with the OMG EBUL ZIONISM!

It never ends.  At this point only radical end of hostilities or the outright annihilation of Palestine seem to be any real end.  I would say moderate politicians but hey...sometimes Palestine doesn't look too different than Pakistan with Hamas around.

I'm not Jewish, I have no loyalties towards Israel and I'd prefer not being buddies with them, but I know who would be the greater of two evils, and it ain't Israel.


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## Qhorin Halfhand (Mar 28, 2011)

Concessions should be made not only for the sake of peace but also for the sake of enhancing the welfare and quality of life of the people living in the area.

And while I have nothing but bad words for Hamas, some of Israel's responses to the situations have been excessive to say the least. It should not be seen as an us versus them, situation but how the people can be better helped should be put on the forefront. 

I honestly don't give a darn if a new state would be created there or Israel would control the whole area and it becomes a part of Israel, so far that the people living their have their human rights, quality of life, food, opportunities in life and so on. If Israel could be both be an enemy of Hamas and a friend to the Palestinian people, that could go a long way in improving the situation. Which granted can be hard, but more effort is required. For a start, no new settlements and allowing more products in the area to be available to the Palestinian people could happen.  There are also other things that can be done. 

As for Hamas and the Palestinians themselves, a serious effort is required from them too. I don't expect much from Hamas, the other factions like the PLA can be more cooperative however. As for Israel, the effort will not necessarily cause them problems, on the contrary it could help with PR, and show how Hamas is the problem in the area.


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## Saufsoldat (Mar 28, 2011)

Narutofann12 said:


> As for Hamas and the Palestinians themselves, a serious effort is required from them too. I don't expect much from Hamas, the other factions like the PLA can be more cooperative however. As for Israel, the effort will not necessarily cause them problems, on the contrary it could help with PR, and show how Hamas is the problem in the area.



Don't fool yourself into believing that. The Goldstone report showed us that no matter how hard Israel tries, any good act on their side is interpreted as just another measure to kill as many Palestinians as possible.


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## Saf (Mar 28, 2011)

Saufsoldat said:


> You're in a situation in which you must act, you can't sit there and let others murder civilians while they use their own civilians as human shields.


Great; except we both agreed that in your analogy we wouldn't do that. So, umm





Saufsoldat said:


> Better than doing nothing about it.


...no?





Saufsoldat said:


> The sad reality is that the IDF shows more regard for Palestinian civilians than Hamas.


Christ, I actually sperged out with you people, the least you could do is read what I wrote.





Saufsoldat said:


> Who would take them? Palestinian refugees in other countries are worse off than those in Gaza.


I don't have a ton of research or development on the issue, but if you splash around enough cash, both problems are probably solvable.





Saufsoldat said:


> Where has Hamas made efforts to put an end to this? When have they been willing to make concessions for the sake of peace? Israel has tried a lot. Slowly retreating and dismantling outposts, sudden and complete retreat from Gaza, offering a two-state solution. So far everything was rejected.


Two of those things are basic human respect and one is words. Hamas has given words.

Do you even read anything I write? And you wonder why I usually resort to robot noises.


----------



## Saufsoldat (Mar 28, 2011)

Saf said:


> Great; except we both agreed that in your analogy we wouldn't do that. So, umm...
> 
> no?



So it's better to ignore a disease than to at least fight the symptoms? Talk about bad analogies.



> Christ, I actually sperged out with you people, the least you could do is read what I wrote.



I did, but the reality is that not every truth is in the middle of two extremes.



> I don't have a ton of research or development on the issue, but if you splash around enough cash, both problems are probably solvable.



Well, maybe if all the bleeding heart hippies would do that instead of sending flotillas with violent martyrs to Gaza, we could do that, but I don't see a lot of Palestinians agreeing to that either.



> Two of those things are basic human respect and one is words. Hamas has given words.



No, they're not. If you're at war with someone it's not common courtesy to not occupy them. It's a sign of good will to end the occupation and completely take down all settlements in that area. Hamas says thank you by firing rockets into Israel.

Also, are you really comparing words of peace and willingness to negotiate to messenges of "fuck off or die"?



> Do you even read anything I write? And you wonder why I usually resort to robot noises.



I do, but you're not making any sense. Hamas kills Palestinians and values bombs more than their children and you're telling me that concessions should be made for such people.


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## Mael (Mar 28, 2011)

> I do, but you're not making any sense. Hamas kills Palestinians and values bombs more than their children and you're telling me that concessions should be made for such people.



It's the naive belief that somehow conceding to the point of international humility will somehow make Hamas lighten up their charter which for the record calls for the active destruction of Israel (and no this isn't loosely translated...it fucking means destroy) and be ready to actually stop doing stupid shit.  It's the naive belief that somehow the Palestinians will finally be optimistic enough to tell Hamas they don't need them anymore and they can now co-exist.  Ell-oh-fucking-ell.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 28, 2011)

WakaFlocka said:


> Well I'm glad your not calling the shots then


Why because we'd have more energy and resources to spend on things worth our while?  Its not our place to intervene in civil wars and if it is why haven't we been doing it more often. Libya isn't the first country ever to need help like this. 

We should have learned our lesson with Iraq, some countries are better off left to the tyrants. Because when you let them free they get worse and the lawlessness turns them into terror states or places where the controlling group is just as worse kind of tyrant. Despite having a little more freedom, the general safety Iraq had under Saddam will never be back in my life time.


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## Perseverance (Mar 28, 2011)

There's gonna be a big war involving Isreal, calling it now.


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## Mael (Mar 28, 2011)

Perseverance said:


> There's gonna be a big war involving Isreal, calling it now.



Something to back that up, por favor?


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## Saufsoldat (Mar 28, 2011)

Perseverance said:


> There's gonna be a big war involving Isreal, calling it now.





Mael said:


> Something to back that up, por favor?



Substitute Israel with just about any nation in the world and it will still be a likely statement.


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## WakaFlocka (Mar 28, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Why because we'd have more energy and resources to spend on things worth our while?  Its not our place to intervene in civil wars and if it is why haven't we been doing it more often. Libya isn't the first country ever to need help like this.
> 
> We should have learned our lesson with Iraq, some countries are better off left to the tyrants. Because when you let them free they get worse and the lawlessness turns them into terror states or places where the controlling group is just as worse kind of tyrant. Despite having a little more freedom, the general safety Iraq had under Saddam will never be back in my life time.



It seems like you have an isolationist political ideology and I'm interventionist in this situation. Iraq is completely different than Libya but this is not the thread for that discussion.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 28, 2011)

WakaFlocka said:


> It seems like you have an isolationist political ideology and I'm interventionist in this situation. Iraq is completely different than Libya but this is not the thread for that discussion.


No it doesn't seem like that, you can't call all of that based on my opinion about one conflict. My issue is that we don't have much stake in the war and there's more that could go wrong than right by us going over there.


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## hcheng02 (Mar 28, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> No it doesn't seem like that, you can't call all of that based on my opinion about one conflict. My issue is that we don't have much stake in the war and there's more that could go wrong than right by us going over there.



Well I suppose you can make the argument that if the current government loses legitimacy both abroad and with its populace than its in the USA's interest to win brownie points with the new government as well as the Arab street. Libya does carry a decent amount of oil as well. 

But your skepticism is very understandable. These rebels have little going for them than anger and youthful zeal. If they can't get their act together than the whole place might descend into a state of anarchy. And anarchy is always worse than tyranny, no matter how oppressive.


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## WakaFlocka (Mar 28, 2011)

Does anyone here hold Israel to higher standard than Hamas because they are an actual country that refers to itself as "the only democracy in the middle east." All this stuff about "well they hit me first" is really childish. Yeah Hamas shoots rockets but they are a terrorist organization. Firing back and killing civilians is inexcusable, I don't care what Hamas did. The generalizations of "well they will probably grow up to be in Hamas anyway" are retarded. I'm proud to be Jewish and I'm proud to have a connection to Israel. That is why when Israel does stuff like this or continues to build settlements it irks me so much.


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## Terra Branford (Mar 28, 2011)

WakaFlocka said:


> Does anyone here hold Israel to higher standard than Hamas because they are an actual country that refers to itself as "the only democracy in the middle east." *All this stuff about "well they hit me first" is really childish. Yeah Hamas shoots rockets but they are a terrorist organization. Firing back and killing civilians is inexcusable, I don't care what Hamas did. *The generalizations of "well they will probably grow up to be in Hamas anyway" are retarded. I'm proud to be Jewish and I'm proud to have a connection to Israel. That is why when Israel does stuff like this or continues to build settlements it irks me so much.



Firing upon a country and her people is a justifiable reason to fight back against terrorists. Israeli has a right to defend itself against terrorists, it doesn't matter if you disagree.

And I'm sure when Hamas shoots rockets at them, kills civilians (on purpose) and all that awesome jazz, it irks Israeli as well.


----------



## WakaFlocka (Mar 28, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> Firing upon a country and her people is a justifiable reason to fight back against terrorists. Israeli has a right to defend itself against terrorists, it doesn't matter if you disagree.
> 
> And I'm sure when Hamas shoots rockets at them, kills civilians (on purpose) and all that awesome jazz, it irks Israeli as well.



Your right I looked back on that part of my post and Israel does have the right to defend itself. That was silly to put in my post. But I still will always hold Israel to a higher standard which is why I am critical of them in this situation


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## Terra Branford (Mar 28, 2011)

WakaFlocka said:


> Your right I looked back on that part of my post and Israel does have the right to defend itself. That was silly to put in my post. But I still will always hold Israel to a higher standard which is why I am critical of them in this situation



I see. I know now by your newest post you think they have the right to defend themselves, but I cannot help but feel as if this post is basically the same as the other, just re-worded. I have a few questions, if I may: does a higher standard mean letting another country/a terrorist etc, bombard you over and over again without trying your best to stop it?  Why are you critical of them? They are only defending themselves, how does that deserve being critical toward them?


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## Razgriez (Mar 29, 2011)

Hamas is a cheating son of a bitch and uses its own citizens as shields so Israel doesnt fire back. Israel is getting to that point where they can only take so much of this bullshit.

You've gotta remember this factor that really the ONLY real way Israel is ever going to get back these guys is if they invade and occupy but everyone has a problem with that so they just send a few shells in retaliation which is also frown upon. What are they suppose to do though just take it and move on? You do that and your opponent will just become bolder and bolder with each attempt until you got a real messy attack on your hands.

These attacks by Israel are pretty much to stave that off a little bit despite they really do nothing.


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## hcheng02 (Mar 29, 2011)

WakaFlocka said:


> Does anyone here hold Israel to higher standard than Hamas because they are an actual country that refers to itself as "the only democracy in the middle east." All this stuff about "well they hit me first" is really childish. Yeah Hamas shoots rockets but they are a terrorist organization. Firing back and killing civilians is inexcusable, I don't care what Hamas did. The generalizations of "well they will probably grow up to be in Hamas anyway" are retarded. I'm proud to be Jewish and I'm proud to have a connection to Israel. That is why when Israel does stuff like this or continues to build settlements it irks me so much.



People like you seem to think that the pro-Israel crowd are deluded fools who see Israel as perfect little angels that can do no wrong. Instead, most pro-Israelis tend to be people who recognize that Israel is not perfect. However, we also believe that despite its faults it is the lesser of two evils because it upholds and values Western values on human rights more so than the Palestinians or its Arab neighbors. 

Yes, in fact we do judge Israel by a higher standard than Hamas. However, don't confuse "higher standard" to "impossible standard." You guys seem to actually believe that its possible to never hurt civilians in war. That the only reason why it happens is because Israel is cruel, that the IDF is an inherently evil genocidal army that enjoys killing innocent civilians. The pro-Israeli crowd know that the bitter realities of war dictate that innocent people get hurt when bullets fly. The pro-Israeli crowd know that there are few certainties of war, and that if you only attack when you are 100% sure that there will be no civilian casualties than you will never, ever have the chance to attack. That means that you are asking Israel to allow its enemies to kill and attack their citizens with *impunity*. You are implicitly stating that Israel has no right to defend itself, and by extension all of its people have no right to live. That if they have to choose between accidentally hurting Palestinian civilians and surviving, then the Israeli people should "d the moral thing" and die. You might claim that Israel has the right to defend itself, but you do not really think so. Not when its actually practiced in the real world. This can be easily determined when you combine the various complaints given. Anti-Israelis complain about the blockade, as if Hamas has a right to import weapons to attack Israel. They complain about the IDF assassinating terrorist leaders "without trial," as if soldiers bring lawyers in the front lines. They complain about IDF military retaliation - both large and small - as if Hamas has a right to bomb and kill Israeli civilians.

The pro-Israel crowd realizes that war is war. Perhaps you were under the impression that war is like some medieval joust? Or that war is like some sports game that follows archaic rules of honor and fair play? In that case you are wrong and any arguments that appeal to "fairness" or "unequal struggle" will be dismissed offhand with scorn and contempt. War is a brutal bloody struggle in which "fairness" plays absolutely no part. You fight with deception, with overwhelming force to break your enemies' will to fight so that they submit to your will. War is a matter of life and death, and you fight it with minimal costs on your part to inflict maximum damage. The lives of your soldiers and people are paramount over those of your enemies. You may spare some attention to decrease collateral damage, but in the end you *must* categorize them as a secondary concern. Believing otherwise is mark of a fool, a weakling who does not understand his priorities and has no right to lead anyone or anything.


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## WT (Mar 29, 2011)

hcheng02 said:


> Is there some cosmic balance that dictates that only so many Jews can be treated well in the world? Does it say that since the Europeans have decided to treat the Jews decently than the Arabs must treat them like shit to compensate?




No matter how the Arabs treat the Jews, they will never be able to compensate the way the Europeans treated the Jews up until 1945. What's actually happened is that the creation of Israel was successful on two fronts, one of them being the transfer of Europe's past antisemitism allegations onto the Arabs themselves. Besides, the Arabs are predominantly Anti Israel which has led to the apparent Antisemitism, as I have posted about a thousand times before.

Why couldn't Germany go to the Jews? Seeing it was them who inflicted all the horrors. Why must the Arabs concede on Europe's behalf?  



> After Israel was created, they kicked out their native Jews despite them living there for centuries



Again this was as a result of the state of Israel, bare in mind that it wasn't an easy process,  as well. The creation of Israel created a sense of identity and as a result, the Arabs were compelled to "kick them out". Anyway, Arab Antisemitism is no where near the same as European Antisemitism. Arabs only hate the Jews through the creation of Israel, which is far more legitimate than hating on the Jews for absolutely no reason at all. 




> And no, the Arabs blame the Jews for EVERYTHING, not just so called injustice. There's a reason why they blame the Jews for shitty broadcasting of the World Cup, shark attacks, and for supposedly controlling every dictator on the planet - even sworn enemies like Gaddafi.




Yes there is a reason and I've mentioned it a gazzilion times. 




> You're idea that "We hate/blame the Jews because of the injustice that has happened" only works in the sense that the Arabs blame the Jews as the reason for every goddamn injustice to occur in the world - which is anti-Semitic.



Erm no. You avoided my question before:

Would the Arabs still be hating on Jews if not Israel but some other non Arab country was given to them?


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## maj1n (Mar 29, 2011)

White Tiger said:


> Erm no. You avoided my question before:
> 
> Would the Arabs still be hating on Jews if not Israel but some other non Arab country was given to them?


Yes they would, as they have for much of their history.


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## xenopyre (Mar 29, 2011)

maj1n said:


> Yes they would, as they have for much of their history.


Please provide sources for your claim .


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## maj1n (Mar 29, 2011)

xenopyre said:


> Please provide sources for your claim .


Sure.

Arab history, is steeped in Islamic history which is my forte, indeed throughout most of recorded history of Arab countries, it was predominantly an Islamic theocracy, and arabs were predominantly Muslim ever since Islam came about.

So to get an idea, historically, of general Arab mentality towards Jews, we need look not much further then Islamic texts.

*Quran 9:29 Tafsir*
_(*until they pay the Jizyah),* if they do not choose to embrace Islam,
(with willing submission), in defeat and subservience,
(and feel themselves subdued.)*, disgraced, humiliated and belittled. *Therefore,* Muslims are not allowed to honor the people of Dhimmah or elevate them above Muslims, for they are miserable, disgraced and humiliated. *Muslim recorded from Abu Hurayrah that the Prophet said,
(Do not initiate the Salam to the Jews and Christians, and if you meet any of them in a road, force them to its narrowest alley.)* This is why the Leader of the faithful `Umar bin Al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, demanded his well-known conditions be met by the Christians, these conditions that ensured their continued humiliation, degradation and disgrace. *
*
Allah the Exalted encourages the believers to fight the polytheists, disbelieving Jews and Christians, who uttered this terrible statement *and utter lies against Allah, the Exalted. As for the Jews, they claimed that *`Uzayr was the son of God, Allah is free of what they attribute to Him. As for the misguidance of Christians over `Isa, it is obvious. This is why Allah declared both groups to be liars,*_


The very real reason why this is proof of the mentality against Jews at least ever since Islam came about, is that arab countries were predominantly Islamic theocracies and Muslim majority, *and always instituted Sharia law such as the above against Jews*



			
				white_tiger[/b said:
			
		

> Now that the Arabs have retaliated, they somehow have become the "bad guys", when it was them who in the middle ages were the only source of sanctuary and protection for the Jews. Sure there were incidences but the fact of the matter is that when the Muslims ruled, the Jews called it their own Golden age.


Read your own link carefully.
_
'With the death of Al-Hakam II Ibn Abd-ar-Rahman in 976, the Caliphate began to dissolve, and the position of the Jews became more precarious under the various smaller Kingdoms. *The first major persecution was the 1066 Granada massacre, which occurred on December 30, when a Muslim mob stormed the royal palace in Granada, crucified Jewish vizier Joseph ibn Naghrela and massacred most of the Jewish population of the city. *"More than 1,500 Jewish families, numbering 4,000 persons, fell in one day."[13] This was the first persecution of Jews on the Peninsula under Islamic rule.
Manuscript page by Maimonides, one of the greatest Jewish scholars of Al Andalus, born in Córdoba. Arabic language in Hebrew letters

Beginning in 1090 the situation deteriorated further with the invasion of the Almoravids, a puritan Muslim sect from Morocco. Even under the Almoravids, some Jews prospered (although far more so under Ali III, than under his father Yusuf ibn Tashfin). Among those who held the title of "vizier" or "nasi" in Almoravid times were the poet and physician Abu Ayyub Solomon ibn al-Mu'allam, Abraham ibn Meïr ibn Kamnial, Abu Isaac ibn Muhajar, and Solomon ibn Farusal (although Solomon was murdered May 2, 1108). The Almoravids, were ousted from the peninsula in 1148; however, the peninsula was again invaded, by the even more puritanical Almohades. *Under the reign of the Almohades, many Jews were forced to accept the Islamic faith; the conquerors confiscated their property and took their wives and children, many of whom were sold as slaves. The most famous Jewish educational institutions were closed, and synagogues everywhere destroyed*._

Arab culture ever since Islam, ALWAYS despised Jews, you don't get massacres and systematic destruction of all things Jewish unless ones culture despises Jews.


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## xenopyre (Mar 29, 2011)

maj1n said:


> Sure.
> 
> Arab history, is steeped in Islamic history which is my forte, indeed throughout most of recorded history of Arab countries, it was predominantly an Islamic theocracy, and arabs were predominantly Muslim ever since Islam came about.
> 
> ...


no there is where you're wrong , Arabs have been predomintatly muslims but they werent islamic for a great period of time sharia laws  have stoped to be strictly applied since the death of Omar the second Qaliph(even him was named by the Jews as the Faroq which means the savior for he allowed the Jews to enter Jerusalem after the Roman empire have forbidden them to do so ) , and also if you read the Umayad Qaliphs poems and their way of life they werent islamic ( some of them were even atheists) also we are talking about the persecution of the Jews medieval-european-style something that did not have place through out all the islamic civilization period . So dont quote some verses form the Qur'an as proof becouse  as unbelievable it might be , extremism is a modern day plague , it started with ibn taymiyah in the golden age ( who have been imprisoned by the Qaliph for his extremists view) and Abd al Wahab and the Saudi dynasty (who have been helped by  the british ) also their was many Jewish intellectuels in the Islamic Qilapha , like  Moses ben Maimon and many others . You quoating the Qur'an it doesnt mean that muslims where going around applying to the T , granted their was Jizyah but it was a ridiculous amount .

@Also the Moravids and Mohades were not Arabs cultures but Berbers .


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## maj1n (Mar 29, 2011)

xenopyre said:


> no there is where you're wrong , Arabs have been predomintatly muslims but they werent islamic for a great period of time sharia laws  have stoped to be strictly applied since the death of Omar the second Qaliph(even him was named by the Jews as the Faroq which means the savior for he allowed the Jews to enter Jerusalem after the Roman empire have forbidden them to do so ) , and also if you read the Umayad Qaliphs poems and their way of life they werent islamic ( some of them were even atheists) also we are talking about the persecution of the Jews medieval-european-style something that did not have place through out all the islamic civilization period . So dont quote some verses form the Qur'an as proof becouse  as unbelievable it might be , extremism is a modern day plague , it started with ibn taymiyah in the golden age ( who have been imprisoned by the Qaliph for his extremists view) and Abd al Wahab and the Saudi dynasty (who have been helped by  the british ) also their was many Jeiwsh intellectuels in the Islamic Qilapha , like  Moses ben Maimon and many others . You quoating the Qur'an it doesnt mean that muslims where going around applying to the T , granted their was Jizyah but it was a ridiculous amount .


No thats where your wrong.

Whether or not sharia was strictly applied or whether Muslims adhered to all of Islamic law, has no bearing on the argument.

The argument is that arab countries historically have been Islamic, and very much Islamic theocracies, and did institute sharia law which is unfavourable to Jews and is rife with hate towards them.

On the inception of Islam in Arab history, Jews were killed, on the early Caliph rulers, Jews were still killed, and institution of Islamic law which was against Jews amongst other things, were put into place.

Throughout Arab history, there are recurring tales of Jews being routinely massacred by angry Muslim mobs.

No, the argument of 'extremism' does not apply, wholesale massacres of Jews throughout history is not 'an act of some minute extremism'.

But a testament to a constant cultural problem of anti-jew hate.

Blacks being mistreated through much of American history perhaps before now modern times, is a testament of what used to be (and still lingering traces) of anti-black hatred.

Your argument would never be applied to any other group of people that faced discrimination historically.


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## xenopyre (Mar 29, 2011)

maj1n said:


> No thats where your wrong.
> 
> Whether or not sharia was strictly applied or whether Muslims adhered to all of Islamic law, has no bearing on the argument.


how so ? we're discussing whether or not Arabs are inherently anti-semetic granted islam is heavly anti-semetic but whether or not Arabs did follow its teaching stricly is crucial to the debate .   


> The argument is that arab countries historically have been Islamic, and very much Islamic theocracies, and did institute sharia law which is unfavourable to Jews and is rife with hate towards them.
> On the inception of Islam in Arab history, Jews were killed, on the early Caliph rulers, Jews were still killed, and institution of Islamic law which was against Jews amongst other things, were put into place.
> 
> Throughout Arab history, there are recurring tales of Jews being routinely massacred by angry Muslim mobs.
> ...


Again you're confusing Arabs with muslims here . the examples you have listed are to the Alomohads and the Moravids who are berbers and not Arabs and their rule did not last that long they also masacred Arabs in Tunisia .  



> Blacks being mistreated through much of American history perhaps before now modern times, is a testament of what used to be (and still lingering traces) of anti-black hatred.
> 
> Your argument would never be applied to any other group of people that faced discrimination historically.


My argument would have been the same for any group or ethnicity ,


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## maj1n (Mar 29, 2011)

xenopyre said:


> how so ? we're discussing whether or not Arabs are inherently anti-semetic granted islam is heavly anti-semetic but whether or not Arabs did follow its teaching stricly is crucial to the debate .


No i'm not, the question to which i replied, is whether Arabs would hate Jews if Israel did not exist.

Speaking in generalities, yes Arab culture would still retain hatred of Jews, as it did before Israel.



			
				xenopyre said:
			
		

> Again you're confusing Arabs with muslims here . the examples you have listed are to the Alomohads and the Moravids who are berbers and not Arabs and their rule did not last that long they also masacred Arabs in Tunisia .


What massacres did i list? i only talked of one.
The Berber dynasty in Spain resulted from the preceding Umayyid Arab dynasty, which conquered Spain and were Arab.

I haven't even begun talking about the national decree historically to destroy Synagogues in Egypt and Syria and Yemen.

Nor have i talked about the national order in the Ottoman Empire to confine Jews to certain living quarters, to force them to wear certain clothes, to force them to behave in certain ways.

The horrible treatment of Jews in Yemen in 1700s

_The Arab natives have always considered the Jew unclean, but his blood for 
them was not considered unclean. They lay claims to all his belongings, and 
if he is unwilling, they employ force...The Jews live outside the town in 
dark dwellings like prison cells or caves out of fear...for the least 
offense, he is sentenced to outrageous fines, which he is quite unable to 
pay. In case of non-payment, he is put in chains and cruelly beaten every 
day. Before the punishment is inflicted, the Cadi[judge] addresses him in 
gentle tones and urges him to change his faith and obtain a share of all the 
glory of this world and of the world beyond. His refusal is again regarded as 
penal obstinacy. On the other hand, it is not open to the Jew to prosecute a 
Muslim, as the Muslim by right of law can dispose of the life and the 
property of the Jew, and it is only to be regarded as an act of magnanimity 
if the Jews are allowed to live. The Jew is not admissible as a witness, nor 
has his oath any validity._
-Jacob Sappir 1886

It is the greatest insult to humanity to even consider Jews as having lived anything of an equitable life in Arab countries throughout history, their treatment overall qualifies just as bad as the holocaust.

Indeed systematic killings of Jews and everything related to them, by Government and by society in Arab countries historically, mirrors the holocaust, but where the holocaust occurred in the space a lifetime, the treatment of Jews in arab countries occurred throughout generations.


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## WakaFlocka (Mar 29, 2011)

IIRC: didn't the Muslims allow Jews access to Jerusalem during the Crusades when the Christians massacred them? If you want to talk about Antisemitism wasn't the Church far more Antisemitic at that time?


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## Soups (Mar 29, 2011)

WakaFlocka said:


> IIRC: didn't the Muslims allow Jews access to Jerusalem during the Crusades when the Christians massacred them? If you want to talk about Antisemitism wasn't the Church far more Antisemitic at that time?



Yeah but like 1000 years ago, so its a mute point.


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## WakaFlocka (Mar 29, 2011)

Well the fools above me have been arguing about shit that happened 1000 years ago so I thought I would just chime in. Even arguing about stuff that happened 300 years ago is a bit silly. The point is the goal should be a two-state solution because peace is better than ethnic cleansing. Thats my opinion.


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## WakaFlocka (Mar 29, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> I see. I know now by your newest post you think they have the right to defend themselves, but I cannot help but feel as if this post is basically the same as the other, just re-worded. I have a few questions, if I may: does a higher standard mean letting another country/a terrorist etc, bombard you over and over again without trying your best to stop it?  Why are you critical of them? They are only defending themselves, how does that deserve being critical toward them?


Advancing on Palestinian territory in the West Bank is not defending itself. Allowing Palestinian people to live in Gaza without sufficient food, water and energy is also not defending itself.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 29, 2011)

WakaFlocka said:


> IIRC: didn't the Muslims allow Jews access to Jerusalem during the Crusades when the Christians massacred them? If you want to talk about Antisemitism wasn't the Church far more Antisemitic at that time?


What does that have to do with anything, no one who even did those things is alive anymore and you're bringing them up in a current conversation about current events. A lot of the problem with these debates its so many people want to dwell on what was done to the Muslims in the past, no one really should give a rat's ass when a lot of it was in retaliation and most of it doesn't excuse actions like what some of these people take right now.


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## hcheng02 (Mar 29, 2011)

White Tiger said:


> No matter how the Arabs treat the Jews, they will never be able to compensate the way the Europeans treated the Jews up until 1945. What's actually happened is that the creation of Israel was successful on two fronts, one of them being the transfer of Europe's past antisemitism allegations onto the Arabs themselves. Besides, the Arabs are predominantly Anti Israel which has led to the apparent Antisemitism, as I have posted about a thousand times before.
> 
> Why couldn't Germany go to the Jews? Seeing it was them who inflicted all the horrors. Why must the Arabs concede on Europe's behalf?



Treating the Jews decently shouldn't be about "compensating" for anything, it should be about doing the decent thing and not fucking over minorities. You can't "transfer" antisemitism like its some piece of paper, it has to have fertile roots in order to grow and spread. 

Also, keep in mind that Germany lost plenty of land after WWII. If the Jews asked for some land as compensation, I doubt the Allies would have mind giving it to them. Here's the problem: THE JEWS DIDN"T WANT LAND IN GERMANY. The reason being that most of them did not want to live and stay in the place that nearly drove them to extinction. Furthermore, Israel has long cultural ties to the Jews as well as a long standing Jewish population that lived there for centuries. 

Being anti-Israel didn't lead to Antisemitism. As Majin noted above, the Arabs have a long history of treating the Jews like shit. Rather it is antisemitism that created Israel - whether that being European or Arab. Keep in mind that a large part of the Israeli population came from the hundreds of thousands of Sephardi Jews that were kicked out of their ancestral homes in Arab lands. The Arab's antisemitism created Israel just as much as the Europeans' did. 



> Again this was as a result of the state of Israel, bare in mind that it wasn't an easy process,  as well. The creation of Israel created a sense of identity and as a result, the Arabs were compelled to "kick them out". Anyway, Arab Antisemitism is no where near the same as European Antisemitism. Arabs only hate the Jews through the creation of Israel, which is far more legitimate than hating on the Jews for absolutely no reason at all.



How does creating a country and sense of national identity oblige the Arabs to kick out their native Jewish populations? Thats like saying that European countries are compelled to kick out Bosnians or Serbs after the Balkan Wars ended and those new states were formed. Also, does this go both ways in the Arab-Israeli conflict? When Palestine is formed, I don't want to hear any complaints if the Israelis kick out the Arabs. 

I would say that currently Arab antisemitism is as bad as European antisemitism was during its height. The only difference being that Israel - being its own state and thus allowed to carry arms and fight for itself - has been successful in preventing Arab antisemitism from being as successful as the Holocaust. The Arabs never made it a secret that they wanted to drive every Jew in Israel to the seas during the early wars of Israel's survival. They just happen to be a whole less competent than the Nazis were in their efforts. 



> Yes there is a reason and I've mentioned it a gazzilion times.



Your reason also happens to be wrong, for reasons which I will describe further down.



> Erm no. You avoided my question before:
> 
> Would the Arabs still be hating on Jews if not Israel but some other non Arab country was given to them?



I thought I answered it, but just so that its clear: Yes, I believe that the Arabs would hate the Jews even if Israel was formed from some non-Arab land. This has to do with the fact that Arab culture is heavily influenced by Islam, and the rise of Islamic fundamentalism would naturally lead to hostility towards Israel no matter where it is created. That is the reason why Muslim countries like Turkey, Pakistan, and Malaysia - places that have never fought any wars nor have any territorial disputes with Israel - still are hostile to it. The reason being that it is culturally ingrained within Islam to fear Jews and few them as inferiors.



WakaFlocka said:


> IIRC: didn't the Muslims allow Jews access to Jerusalem during the Crusades when the Christians massacred them? If you want to talk about Antisemitism wasn't the Church far more Antisemitic at that time?



Yes, and a couple centuries ago a sturdy horse was the fastest way to travel on land and disease was thought to be caused by evil spirits. Times change and attitudes change. Both in recent history (as in the last few decades) and currently in the present, Muslims have a poor history of treating the Jews in Muslim lands whereas the West are much more humane. When East Jerusalem was under Arab (and predominantly Muslim) control by Jordan, Jews were not allowed to visit sacred sites, synagogues were razed, and roads were paved with Jewish headstones. Whereas now, Israel does allow Muslims to visit Jerusalem and the Temple of the Mount is being administered by a Muslim waqf.


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## N120 (Mar 29, 2011)

WakaFlocka said:


> Advancing on Palestinian territory in the West Bank is not defending itself. Allowing Palestinian people to live in Gaza without sufficient food, water and energy is also not defending itself.



True.

 If gazan groups stopped all attacks and gave up their weapons do you think forced expulsion,expansion and settlements in palestine will stop? 

...exactly. makes no difference wether they resist through arms or peaceful means, the end game is the same for them either way and they all know it, some have simply decided to go down fighting, some through activism, some simply ran off or turn up at the butchering table ...i mean negotiating table offering an arm and leg just to save their knecks. LOL


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## The Pink Ninja (Mar 29, 2011)

N120 said:


> True.
> 
> If gazan groups stopped all attacks and gave up their weapons do you think forced expulsion,expansion and settlements in palestine will stop?



Yes
















What now bitch?

You know what Israelis say?

They say even if they made peace with the Palestinians the Arabs would never make peace with them. They'd just continue to advance and demands more things and Israeli would have given up strategic and holy land for nothing.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 29, 2011)

ITT: 




N120 said:


> True.
> 
> If gazan groups stopped all attacks and gave up their weapons do you think forced expulsion,expansion and settlements in palestine will stop?
> 
> ...exactly.



I guess we won't know since Hamas hasn't stopped acting like fucking criminals since their creation.

Realize you're supporting people who elected a group who have less morals than common street gangs...even they won't hide behind their kids. 

Gaza deserves what they get for allowing their governing body to fall to such deplorable, cowardly acts.


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## The Pink Ninja (Mar 29, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I guess we won't know since Hamas hasn't stopped acting like fucking criminals since their creation.



Well Israel is basically a stolen country...


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 29, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Well Israel is basically a stolen country...


It's only stolen if you think that the Palestinians owned it. They didn't and the land wasn't theirs to not give. As for the parts Israel took through war, congratulations that's how you get land. You think Scotland is happy about your people kicking their teeth in and taking over? No. Should England have been stopped? Fuck no. Why is it anyone's place to stop Israel for kicking the shit out of aggressive nations?


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## The Pink Ninja (Mar 29, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> It's only stolen if you think that the Palestinians owned it. They didn't and the land wasn't theirs to not give. As for the parts Israel took through war, congratulations that's how you get land. You think Scotland is happy about your people kicking their teeth in and taking over? No. Should England have been stopped? Fuck no. Why is it anyone's place to stop Israel for kicking the shit out of aggressive nations?



You means the hundreds of thousands of Palestinains who were chased out of their houses and businesses by Jewish militia didn't own them? Is this because GOD said this land belonged to the Jews? Were they just leaseholders?

You seem to confuse owning land and being a nation with having a state. Even if they didn't have the latter they still had the former. The Israelis didn't set up shop in an empty and unclaimed land. There were people there, Muslims who didn't exactly like the idea of living in a Jewish state where they would defacto be second class citizens under a minority elite. 

I also don't think Israelis have any room to talk about who is a state or a nation since they are at best, exactly as old as the Palestinains.

As for the stuff about England and Scotland its rather pathetic. I'm fine with Israel taking land off Egypt and Syria and other who attacked it but they're the ones who attacked the Palestinians. Colonial Empires should be a thing of the past. We've moved on morally and legally and if you're using 300year old examples to justify it then you're working with an ethics system than condoned sexism, racism and the violent anti-Semitism that lead to the Holocaust in the first place.


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## N120 (Mar 29, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> You know what Israelis say?
> 
> They say even if they made peace with the Palestinians the Arabs would never make peace with them.



how does that work? 



> They'd just continue to advance and demands more things and Israeli would have given up strategic and holy land for nothing.



oh right, so isrealis offering a portion of their own land back to them is 'peace', but palestinians seeking to free whats already theirs is the stumbling block to that so called peace. 

i'd prefer the violence too tbh.



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I guess we won't know since Hamas hasn't stopped acting like fucking criminals since their creation.



 was it any different before their creation?



> Realize you're supporting people who elected a group who have less morals than common street gangs...even they won't hide behind their kids.



they seem to have less and less of everything tbh, not just morals. 



> Gaza deserves what they get for allowing their governing body to fall to such deplorable, cowardly acts.



thats what i said, they deserve it regardless of their actions.


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## The Pink Ninja (Mar 29, 2011)

N120 said:


> how does that work?



How does



> If gazan groups stopped all attacks and gave up their weapons do you think forced expulsion,expansion and settlements in palestine will stop?
> 
> ...exactly.



Work?

Why can't I make massive assumptions too?



> oh right, so isrealis offering a portion of their own land back to them is 'peace', but palestinians seeking to free whats already theirs is the stumbling block to that so called peace.
> 
> i'd prefer the violence too tbh.



Not what I said.


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## N120 (Mar 29, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Why can't I make massive assumptions too?



Except im not assuming anything, Rockets fall from hamas controlled gaza, houses continue to spring up in PLO controlled WB(apparently the accepted negotiating partner). If Gaza becomes passive will that policy change?



> Not what I said.



well what else is there?


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## hcheng02 (Mar 29, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> You means the hundreds of thousands of Palestinains who were chased out of their houses and businesses by Jewish militia didn't own them? Is this because GOD said this land belonged to the Jews? Were they just leaseholders?
> 
> You seem to confuse owning land and being a nation with having a state. Even if they didn't have the latter they still had the former. The Israelis didn't set up shop in an empty and unclaimed land. There were people there, Muslims who didn't exactly like the idea of living in a Jewish state where they would defacto be second class citizens under a minority elite.



Except that many Palestinians weren't chased out, but rather they left of their own volition because the Arab leadership told them so and they believed that the Jews would be slaughtered in the end. Too bad it did not work out for them. Furthermore, most of the Palestinians didn't even own the land they lived in. If you rent an apartment and the apartment owner sells it from under you then you are shit out of luck because that is perfectly legal. 



> I also don't think Israelis have any room to talk about who is a state or a nation since they are at best, exactly as old as the Palestinains.



So are countries like India and Pakistan. Plenty of nations have only been founded within the last few decades in regards to their most recent incarnations. Its not about age, its about competency in things like governance, infrastructure, and war. And in everything that counts, Israel has left the Palestinians as well as the general Arab world in the dust. 



> As for the stuff about England and Scotland its rather pathetic. *I'm fine with Israel taking land off Egypt and Syria and other who attacked it but they're the ones who attacked the Palestinians.* Colonial Empires should be a thing of the past. We've moved on morally and legally and if you're using 300year old examples to justify it then you're working with an ethics system than condoned sexism, racism and the violent anti-Semitism that lead to the Holocaust in the first place.



Well where did you think Israel got Gaza and the West Bank from? Gaza was originally from Egypt, and the West Bank from Jordan. Both of which were taken during the 1967 Six Day War. When you start a war and lose than your land is forfeit to the victors. Its not about colonialism, its really how war works.


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## The Pink Ninja (Mar 29, 2011)

N120 said:


> Except im not assuming anything, Rockets fall from hamas controlled gaza, houses continue to spring up in PLO controlled WB(apparently they accepted negotiating partner). If Gaza becomes passive will that policy change?


 
When they left Gaza, attacks on Israel increased.

Why should they trust the Palestinians again?

[/Israeli]



> well what else is there?



Palestinains are small potatoes compared with relations with the rest of the Arab and Muslims world. The general Israeli view is the Arabs hate Israel and will want to fight it no matter what So why give up strategic ground?


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## N120 (Mar 29, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> When they left Gaza, attacks on Israel increased.
> 
> Why should they trust the Palestinians again?



they shouldnt, gazans too have no reason to trust israel and espcially those in WB. 

but that didnt answer my question.



> Palestinains are small potatoes compared with relations with the rest of the Arab and Muslims world. The general Israeli view is the Arabs hate Israel and will want to fight it no matter what So why give up strategic ground?



so its comes down to what i already said.


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## The Pink Ninja (Mar 29, 2011)

hcheng02 said:


> Except that many Palestinians weren't chased out, but rather they left of their own volition because the Arab leadership told them so and they believed that the Jews would be slaughtered in the end. Too bad it did not work out for them. Furthermore, most of the Palestinians didn't even own the land they lived in. If you rent an apartment and the apartment owner sells it from under you then you are shit out of luck because that is perfectly legal.



Some left of their own "volition", if you can really call it that when they were afraid of getting killed by either side (And if the Jews won or weren't opposed, of losing everything or becoming a second class citizen in his own homeland). Some were chased out. If the Allies had fucked up D-Day would that mean Germany had legal rights to France?

What this commonplace argument you're repeating here basically says is this:

"The Palestinians wanted to finish the Holocaust. They left Israel/Palestine so they wouldn't get hit by Arab fire when they came into murder the Jews"

What I say is:

"The Palestinians being involved in what amounted to a fairly violent war fled, either fearing Jewish militia or friendly fire from invading Arabs. Leaving a conflict zone and hoping to return is sensible, common and not giving a shit about what happens to your enemies is pretty much standard. The reason is that they didn't want to live in a Jewish state is because it was a Jewish state, where they would be second class citizens in the land most of them had probably lived in for generations. Which again, is fairly standard i.e. every colony versus Empire war ever."

Nothing unreasonable there, or untrue, Unless you think all these Palestinains oldsters who can recall being chased out of their homes are lying.

And again, you're confusing owning land with having a state. Just because the Palestinians were poor and the Jews were rich(er) doesn't mean they surrendered their rights, moreso when there were similar numbers/more of them. Even if they didn't own their own land they were still living there.



> So are countries like India and Pakistan. Plenty of nations have only been founded within the last few decades in regards to their most recent incarnations. Its not about age, its about competency in things like governance, infrastructure, and war. And in everything that counts, Israel has left the Palestinians as well as the general Arab world in the dust.



Most of this is totally irrelevant but no, competence has nothing to do with with statehood.


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## The Pink Ninja (Mar 29, 2011)

N120 said:


> they shouldnt, gazans too have no reason to trust israel and espcially those in WB.
> 
> but that didnt answer my question.



It did if you think about it for about twenty seconds.


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## N120 (Mar 29, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> It did if you think about it for about twenty seconds.



No it didnt, you went from a 'yes' to 'why should they'...uncertainty. But i know your smart enough (one of a few even worth taking seriously here) to know what i said isnt just empty words, its closer to the truth than you'd like to admit.


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## hcheng02 (Mar 29, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Some left of their own "volition", if you can really call it that when they were afraid of getting killed by either side (And if the Jews won or weren't opposed, of losing everything or becoming a second class citizen in his own homeland). Some were chased out. *If the Allies had fucked up D-Day would that mean Germany had legal rights to France? *



Considering the opposite happened to be true - the Allies got dibs on the Sudentland and kicked out hundreds of thousands of native Germans after conquering Germany - I would say yes. Its not a pretty or comforting thought on how the world would be had the Axis won WWII, but it would probably have been the case. 



> What this commonplace argument you're repeating here basically says is this:
> 
> "The Palestinians wanted to finish the Holocaust. They left Israel/Palestine so they wouldn't get hit by Arab fire when they came into murder the Jews"
> 
> ...



The Palestinians wouldn't have had to make such a decision if they had accepted the UN two state resolution. Starting a war of annihilation - which by definition invokes the right of conquest and dispenses with issues of fairness - and then getting your ass kicked doesn't merit many sympathy points. The Jews were stuck in the same crossfire and they didn't leave, which meant that they wanted the land more. And Israel isn't any Empire to speak of, considering how they were being outnumbered and outgunned by people who wanted to wipe them out. 

Furthermore, you have situations like the city of Haifa, where the Jewish mayor openly pleaded with the Arabs to stay. They left anyway. Sorry, but choices come with consequences. The Palestinian complaints amount to punching a guy in the face, getting curbstomped, and then asking for a do-over.



> And again, you're confusing owning land with having a state. Just because the Palestinians were poor and the Jews were rich(er) doesn't mean they surrendered their rights, moreso when there were similar numbers/more of them. Even if they didn't own their own land they were still living there.



And they would still be living there if they decided to stay. Look at how many Arabs live in Israel today in regards to proportion of the population compared to any of its neighboring Arab states. Also, compare their standard of living and political rights. 



> Most of this is totally irrelevant but no, competence has nothing to do with with statehood.



How can it not? If the government cannot control the people within its borders and defend itself from outside threats than its pretty much a failed state.


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## Terra Branford (Mar 29, 2011)

WakaFlocka said:


> Advancing on Palestinian territory in the West Bank is not defending itself. Allowing Palestinian people to live in Gaza without sufficient food, water and energy is also not defending itself.


You have to be someone's dupe.

Thank you for not answering my question and skipping over it entirely to place blame on Israeli for something they cannot control and certainly did not start.

My post


Terra Branford said:


> I see. I know now by your newest post you think they have the right to defend themselves, but I cannot help but feel as if this post is basically the same as the other, just re-worded. I have a few questions, if I may: does a higher standard mean letting another country/a terrorist etc, bombard you over and over again without trying your best to stop it?  Why are you critical of them? They are only defending themselves, how does that deserve being critical toward them?



It is not Israeli's fault that Palestinians don't have sufficient good, water and energy. Stop blaming everything on Israeli, its just sad.

Whether you admit it or not, Israeli is defending itself. I wonder if you would feel this way if the roles were reversed. I know for certain you would not feel the same.



WakaFlocka said:


> IIRC: didn't the Muslims allow Jews access to Jerusalem during the Crusades when the Christians massacred them? If you want to talk about Antisemitism wasn't the Church far more Antisemitic at that time?




*Spoiler*: __ 




Wasn't it the Muslims who went to other countries and slaughtered the people and also forced the Spanish people to turn their churches into Mosques and work for them? Wasn't it the Muslims who committed a holocaust of the Dharmic Faith based people?

The Jews and Muslims, as well as Catholics, lived in Jerusalem at the time. Which was land Muslims made a conquest against. But sure, if Iftikhar ad-Daula expelling Christians/Catholics _and_ Jews and even poisoning his own civilians (Christian and Jews, which I am sure also killed Muslims...) means allowing them in, then sure.

You do not seem very educated in the Crusades... The Crusades had been started by Muslims who went in and slaughtered Catholics and Jews (other religious people as well) and took the Holy Land and other lands. The Muslims had set out to conquest other lands, took control of the Holy Land and then the Crusades started to gain back the land and protect the Empire against Seljuk Turks. The Second Crusade occurred after Edessa fell to the Muslims in 1444, which was after the Muslims united under the control of Imad Ad-din Zengi.

And no, that is not anti-Semite as the death that happened to the Jews who fought against the Franks in the re-capture of Jerusalem were in *war*. People who hate Jews for just being Jews, killing them for being Jews or for religious reasons or any other reason someone may have to hate Jews, is being anti-Semite.






The Pink Ninja said:


> Well Israel is basically a stolen country...



Wait, how does this make it okay to kill people of present?  

If this is indeed what you meant, 
*Spoiler*: __ 



then Native Americans should kick American citizens across the country and then murder them all. Or hell, the Spanish should do it to the Muslims. Or countries should do it to illegal immigrants.


 If that's not what you meant, I apologize for the assumption. It came off that way to me.... >.<


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## WakaFlocka (Mar 30, 2011)

I'm not someone's dupe but if you want to make personal attacks either write on my wall or pm me about it. And how can Israel not control what happens in Gaza when they are the ones issuing a blockade? Do some bloody research. Here is an overview


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 30, 2011)

This is just the same circle jerk all these threads become. To them Israel is always in the wrong and Gaza is always right.


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## WakaFlocka (Mar 30, 2011)

^what a massive and useless generalization


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 30, 2011)

WakaFlocka said:


> ^what a massive and useless generalization


You seem to have such a problem accepting the truth. Fact of the matter is that you're all making generalizations about Israel and treating the other side as if it can do no wrong while most people who are supporting Israel only see it as the lesser of two evils and the one who is more in the right because its not using terrorism and its own people as human shields, But continue being wrong, you're good at it. 

In actuality no other group would post about the wartime death of one civilian killed on mistake after the other side just murdered some intentionally and expect to get anything but laughed at.


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## Wesker (Mar 30, 2011)

WakaFlocka said:


> I'm not someone's dupe but if you want to make personal attacks either write on my wall or pm me about it. And how can Israel not control what happens in Gaza when they are the ones issuing a blockade? Do some bloody research. Here is an overview



Gaza shares a border with Egypt so Israel can't completely block them in unless they also took control of the Egypt/Gaza border.


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## WakaFlocka (Mar 30, 2011)

Wesker said:


> Gaza shares a border with Egypt so Israel can't completely block them in unless they also took control of the Egypt/Gaza border.



This is true but Israel is responsible for letting goods in and out and the blockade has destroyed any semblance of an economy Gaza had. also they control the amount of energy Gaza gets. If you read the little feature I posted you would have seen that.

As for the other post, I said it was a massive generalization because you could say the same thing but flip it around. There are a lot of people who think Israel can do no wrong. The objective is to find the balance where both Gaza and Israel have been doing lots of stuff wrong. The entire organization of Hamas is wrong, but Israel's treatment of Palestinian civilians in the Gaza area is wrong as well. For the Palestinians to be taken seriously Hamas has to revoke its own charter, which is extremely violent and work on uniting Palestinian leadership with the PA. Israel needs to loosen the blockade and stop building settlements in the West Bank to allow some kind of trust to develop between two people that haven't had any. If Israel loosens the blockade and Hamas continues to attack, then maybe Israel will gain some points in PR, a war they have been losing since the end of the Second Intifada. They will gain points with me as well and I will change my opinion. But if they keep building settlements and let Palestinians continue to live in unfit living conditions, I won't change my mind in partially blaming them for dragging on the conflict.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 30, 2011)

WakaFlocka said:


> This is true but Israel is responsible for letting goods in and out and the blockade has destroyed any semblance of an economy Gaza had. also they control the amount of energy Gaza gets. If you read the little feature I posted you would have seen that.



That's how war works and how a blockade works, you still didn't explain how Egypt is helping these people they supposedly feel sympathetic toward...you're just doing what anyone would have expected from someone stating your weak case, dodging the question of what Gaza is so supported but that support only goes as far as words.

And  at Saf's post, instead of bringing real points to the table he goes on an editorial about how Israel doesn't value their children either. Well they're not hiding behind them and they're keeping them from dying in higher numbers, looks like I was able to refute your bullshit point. Would you like to try and put your foot in your mouth again so we can all point out to you why you're wrong?


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## Xyloxi (Mar 30, 2011)

I think the Israelis and Palestinians both need some serious drinking to sort things out, then hate Steve Jobs insteaf of each other.


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## Saf (Mar 30, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> And  at Saf's post, instead of bringing real points to the table he goes on an editorial about how Israel doesn't value their children either. Well they're not hiding behind them and they're keeping them from dying in higher numbers, looks like I was able to refute your bullshit point. Would you like to try and put your foot in your mouth again so we can all point out to you why you're wrong?


Last time I made real points you ignored my post entirely. And... what editorial? One throwaway line that was more in service to points I've already made?

That you ignored the gist of "... what does that have to do with anything I wrote? Seriously? You completely ignored the gist of what I wrote in favor taking potshots at violent ragheads. When the discussion rises above raw viscera, you don't seem to have much to say" to take potshots at violent ragheads is just too amazing.


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## WakaFlocka (Mar 30, 2011)

Xyloxi said:


> I think the Israelis and Palestinians both need some serious drinking to sort things out, then hate Steve Jobs insteaf of each other.



To bad it is against the Muslim religion to drink. Meanwhile for Jews its mandatory


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## Terra Branford (Mar 30, 2011)

WakaFlocka said:


> I'm not someone's dupe but if you want to make personal attacks either write on my wall or pm me about it. And how can Israel not control what happens in Gaza when they are the ones issuing a blockade? Do some bloody research. Here is an overview



Hmm, yes and I'm Obama. My accusation is not a personal attack, learn the difference please. You have taken the initiative to PM me, so....?

I've done enough research, you have no knowledge of who I am and what I have done in my life. You must have little intelligence of if you think Israeli is to blame for what others did or to be blamed for everything. If I smacked you around for years and you finally fought back, I deserve whatever the hell you dish out to me.

Its their own damn fault for acting like dickheads and attacking a country because of some stupid ass feud. 



WakaFlocka said:


> To bad it is against the Muslim religion to drink. Meanwhile for Jews its mandatory





You know that discussion we had? You're showing more of it and giving more reasons to believe it. But since your bias and hate is showing, might as well join in. You know what's mandatory for Muslims? Raping women and treating them like trash.


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## Saf (Mar 30, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> You know what's mandatory for Muslims? Raping women and treating them like trash.


This is just inexcusably stupid. Christ.


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## Terra Branford (Mar 31, 2011)

Saf said:


> This is just inexcusably stupid. Christ.



That's the damn point.


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## Saf (Mar 31, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> That's the damn point.


Oh, well, you seemed to be taking his joke a little seriously, so I just assumed.


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## Terra Branford (Mar 31, 2011)

Saf said:


> Oh, well, you seemed to be taking his joke a little seriously, so I just assumed.



Ah, I see. Sorry about that, tried to be really clear, to Waka at least. I was just making a _secret_ point to WakaFlocka.


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