# Avatar Vs Star Wars



## Superrazien (Dec 30, 2009)

I hear many people comparing Avatar to Star Wars a new hope when it premiered, so which movie do you think is a better movie. Also do you think Avatar could turn into the new Star Wars.


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## paulatreides0 (Dec 30, 2009)

Avatar was good, but....

Star Wars is a classic and an innovator for good reason

Star Wars was better, it was more revolutionary and such

I doubt Avatar could become as big as SW


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## Banhammer (Dec 30, 2009)

Avatar inovated epic design and great filmaking. But once better movies are made with this amazing technology, it will quickly fade away.


Star Wars was made with broomsticks and flashlights, and it's still the standard epic where even the fanfic level of a medieval rip off generates cult followings.


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## Stroev (Dec 30, 2009)

I heard the premise is similar to a Shakespeare story, like Lion King being Hamlet.

Anyways, nothing truly original.


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## Soledad Eterna (Dec 30, 2009)

^more like Pocahontas actually


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## KazeYama (Dec 30, 2009)

Avatar is great in terms of technology. The 3-D tech used in Avatar will probably have a huge impact in pushing the movie industry forward. 

However the story of the movie is not as good as Star Wars. The characters arn't as relatable as Star Wars and the universe isn't as instantly recognizable or able to relate to so it won't develop the lasting mainstream and cult following that Star Wars has. 

At best it will end up as a Star Trek or a LOTR with a smaller following of devoted fans but it isn't in place to be a cultural revolution like Star Wars. Also Lucas and Star Wars established the whole special effects industry in film. Avatar only really focuses on further enhancing already existing CG and 3-D not anything entirely new. Also the fact that ILM which Star Wars and lucasfilm helped create worked on CG for Avatar shows that they won't be taking over any time soon. 

At first I thought this was a real fight and I would love to see a Star Destroyer mow down that giant tree in about 2 seconds with a turbo laser.


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## Hellspawn28 (Dec 30, 2009)

Their two different movies, and I do say Star Wars 4 is a much better movie though since it has better characters, and it's a classic really.


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## Gnome (Dec 30, 2009)

i liked Avatar more personally, i'm not crazy about Scifi movies in general though. Star wars is a classic and more revolutionary with a better plot. so star wars.


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## Glued (Dec 30, 2009)

"Luke I am your father."
"It's not true...its not true..."
"Search your heart and you shall know it is the truth, join me and we shall rule the galaxy as father and son."
"I'll never join you."
"You have no choice."

Also
[Youtube]Xdd0edT-BeE[/Youtube]
And
[Youtube]tEeAjy-05OI[/Youtube]


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## Darth Nihilus (Dec 30, 2009)

I expected an actual vs debate. Now my spirit is down again


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## KazeYama (Dec 30, 2009)

Star Wars would dominate in a real fight even if you put the Navi and Humans on the same side. They have archaic technology.


*Spoiler*: __ 



No lightspeed, or atleast assuming as much since it took 6 years to reach Pandora and they needed Cryostasis to make the trip possible.

Although the Pandora world/hive mind is sort of like the force in a way.


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## strongarm85 (Dec 31, 2009)

Avatar was a great movie, but I don't believe it's going to have to same impact that Star Wars hard in any way.



Darth Nihilus said:


> I expected an actual vs debate. Now my spirit is down again



Where you hoping for a Star Wars rape thread?

To hypothetically make a match between the two really pull back the reins on what Star Wars is allowed to use.


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## noobthemusical (Dec 31, 2009)

A single Master level Jedi solo's.


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## Platinum (Dec 31, 2009)

Star Wars easily and no I doubt Avatar will ever become a classic of the same caliber as the Star Wars series.


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## Lucaniel (Dec 31, 2009)

Given that it's already attracting "pocahontas in space" labels, I doubt it.


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## Bart (Jan 1, 2010)

*Star Wars.*

I'm afraid it's not a fair comparision, Star Wars is a huge saga (6 movies, + comics, + series, + animated works) with plenty of stories and a solid fanbase being (and keeping) building since the 80's, while Avatar is (still) a single movie that has barely 10 days of life. 

What is surprising is the cost and materials uses to make A New Hope, which would surprise a vast amount of people. *Lucas told an age-old story, but in a world none of us had ever seen, at a time when heroes were long forgotten, and using effects that again, we had never dreamed possible.*

*Ask yourself this:* _Will we be chanting Avatar quotes as we did with Star Wars?_

It's almost like comparing the Golden Compass with Lord of the Rings.


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## Pompous (Jan 1, 2010)

Don't listen to hype it blows things out of proportion by definition. No they do not compare at all.


Bartallen2 said:


> It's almost like comparing the Golden Compass with Lord of the Rings.


I know you're comparing the movies but fuck it I prefer His Dark Materials to LotR.


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## Bart (Jan 1, 2010)

Pompous said:


> I know you're comparing the movies but fuck it I prefer His Dark Materials to LotR.


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## HumanWine (Jan 1, 2010)

Moar star wars wank. 

Stars Wars has over 30 years of ammo to work with; from fanboys to novels, the series embedded in history. Im not praising the actually story because in all honesty, its lack luster. Its main selling points back in the late 70s was that it had spaceships, lightsabers and Han Solo. No one before ever really had the support or money to create a decent scifi-movie; plus the film came out at a time when America began to start loving going to the movies. I can seriously say if "A Princess of Mars" (a book and an up coming movie) were switched with Star Wars, that would the "best" fantasy epic nowadays. When it comes out, it will most likely be considered a stars knock off


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## KazeYama (Jan 1, 2010)

Star Wars hardly had the money or support, studios didn't even want to pick it up because they thought it would be a B movie flop. The only reason it got picked up was because Lucas didn't get paid anything to make it but he got the licensing and merchandising rights which everyone thought were useless. 

Plus Americans always loved going to the movies but Star Wars turned it into a money making industry as the first must see summer blockbuster. Films like Star Wars and Jaws which were targeting the teenage market out of school for the summer were what helped revolutionize the movie business. 

Saying that you could put any other sci-fi movie into the spot of Star Wars and that it would have the same effect is wrong since there were tons of bad sci-fi movies before Star Wars that made no money which is why the studio was reluctant to fund it in the first place. Star Wars did well because it wasn't a sci-fi movie it was a fantasy movie in a technologically advanced setting. It was a once upon a time (long time ago galaxy far far away) epic adventure story that people could instantly follow and made it so accessible to the public that it was able to succeed where previous sci-fi films had failed.


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## Ciupy (Jan 1, 2010)

When Star Wars first aired waaaay back then it was considered a somewhat shallow story,with cliche characters and a weak plot,but it had amazing groundbreaking special effects and with them it created a dense atmosphere that attracted the public in.

In short,it was what you now are deriding Avatar for.

Star Wars has a metric ton of StarWarsverse related films,books e.t.c. that helped define the universe and made it what it is today.


I wonder how great Star Wars would have been if it would have stopped just at the first movie,A New Hope, and not developed into what it is now.

In short,Avatar is a modern equivalent of A New Hope,a movie that revolutionizes what you can do in a movie with technology and which holds great promise for a huge epic saga,not Star Wars as a fictional universe gifted with a place in the collective psyche.

Wait until Avatar 2 and Avatar 3 to see how it stacks up against Star Wars as a whole..


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## Havoc (Jan 1, 2010)

Avatar has great CGI with a trite mediocre plot.

So I pick Star Wars.


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## HumanWine (Jan 2, 2010)

KazeYama said:


> Star Wars hardly had the money or support, studios didn't even want to pick it up because they thought it would be a B movie flop. The only reason it got picked up was because Lucas didn't get paid anything to make it but he got the licensing and merchandising rights which everyone thought were useless.



In the beginning, yes; Star Wars was thought to be a flop but once the studios realized it was marketable, they did everything in their power to milk it dry. Im talking about toys, novels, and comics coming out in the same year the film was made. Not mention how the flick came out in a era where Americans were beginning to like American cinema again. A decade before, it was all about foreign film because of the "standards" American films had were restricted by production codes. After that controlling era ended, we started seeing relatable, graphic movies like Easy Rider, Dirty Harry, The Godfather, Rocky, etc. 

Not to bash on Star Wars too much but the film came out a nigh perfect time for it to. A relatable marketable fantasy presented in a time where cinema appreciation is on the rise is almost impossible to fail.


KazeYama said:


> Plus Americans always loved going to the movies but Star Wars turned it into a money making industry as the first must see summer blockbuster. Films like Star Wars and Jaws which were targeting the teenage market out of school for the summer were what helped revolutionize the movie business.


To reiterate again, cinema attendance was sparked by the end of the hollywood production codes and the risque direction film was taking. Jaws would have never been attempted to be made in American a decade before.


KazeYama said:


> Saying that you could put any other sci-fi movie into the spot of Star Wars and that it would have the same effect is wrong since there were tons of bad sci-fi movies before Star Wars that made no money which is why the studio was reluctant to fund it in the first place. Star Wars did well because it wasn't a sci-fi movie it was a fantasy movie in a technologically advanced setting. It was a once upon a time (long time ago galaxy far far away) epic adventure story that people could instantly follow and made it so accessible to the public that it was able to succeed where previous sci-fi films had failed.


Dude, scifi movies of the 30s, 40s, 50s, and 60s were shitty. After a few poorly made scifi films made in the beginnings of the film industry failed, no one wanted to bank on them. Thats what gave rise to those hilariously bad scifi B movies. No one cared enough. This mentality hurt some gems such as the War of the Worlds and The Day the Earth stood still. Slowly in the 50s and 60s we saw few good scifi films like Forbidden Planet but they werent marketable. Again, not to completely bash on the series but Star Wars has endured because it was marketable. Every fanboy realized that when they heard how Return of the Jedi was made. Its even more evident in the precludes. 

In conclusion, you cant really compare Avatar to Stars Wars: Star Wars has decades behind it and is highly marketable. Avatar is reminiscent to scifi films in the past that have influence the way we make movies. To be fair, Star Wars would be a much better film series if it were switch with Avatar in terms of time. Avatar would stand out with its presentation on special effects (relative to that time) and Star Wars would be made with a more serious, less marketable intent.


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## C. Hook (Jan 2, 2010)

I think the main problem for Avatar is that it simply got too much hype. 

Imagine if Star Wars had a fuckton of trailers, toys, bath soaps, and shit BEFORE it was released. The hype for Avatar was bound to let some people down.

That said, I prefer Star Wars. They had less to work with, but in my mind did a better job with what they had.


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## Fang (Jan 2, 2010)

Star Wars is cool because it wasn't retarded


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## Commander Shepard (Jan 2, 2010)

KazeYama said:


> Star Wars hardly had the money or support, studios didn't even want to pick it up because they thought it would be a B movie flop. The only reason it got picked up was because Lucas didn't get paid anything to make it but he got the licensing and merchandising rights which everyone thought were useless.



The irony here is supreme.

On topic:  I doubt Avatar will have the same impact as Star Wars.  I mean, how can BLUE PEOPLE become iconic?

Oh wait...


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## Gunners (Jan 2, 2010)

Stupid to compare them now, seeing as Star Wars has two triologies, books and a cult. 

In 30-50 years time I'll bump this thread and give my opinion.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jan 2, 2010)

TWF said:


> Star Wars is cool because it wasn't retarded



Star Wars gave us Thrawn, who's a way cooler blue guy than anyone in Avatar with perhaps the exception of Quaritch


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## C. Hook (Jan 2, 2010)

Yeah, I was kinda unbanned after forever. 



Crimson Dragoon said:


> Star Wars gave us Thrawn, who's a way cooler blue guy than anyone in Avatar with perhaps the exception of Quaritch



Quaritch was so badass I was rooting for the villains.  Plus, they have cool mechs.

*Then again, I rooted for the Empire...*


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## Untitled (Jan 2, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> Avatar was good, but....
> 
> Star Wars is a classic and an innovator for good reason
> 
> ...



This. 

And besides, who wants little blue pervs running around rather than oxygen-tanked old men?


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## Hellspawn28 (Jan 2, 2010)

Even though I do think Epsiode 4 is better then Avatar, but I do think James is a much better director then Lucas. At least James Cameron never made a Terminator Holiday Special =p.


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## Jesusfreak (Jan 3, 2010)

Avatar could never be like starwars. Avatar is good in it's own right, however, Avatar is mostly great for it's 3-D/CGI graphic. Not plot, plot is okay, but star wars is epic. And Avatar left no room for a sequel. Now, that being said, George Lucas could make an even better movie with epic plot and great CGI/3-D graphics


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## Endless Mike (Jan 3, 2010)

KazeYama said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Although the Pandora world/hive mind is sort of like the force in a way.



It's a poor man's Zonama Sekot, is all it is.


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## Superrazien (Jan 3, 2010)

Superwes Reborn said:


> Avatar could never be like starwars. Avatar is good in it's own right, however, Avatar is mostly great for it's 3-D/CGI graphic. Not plot, plot is okay, but star wars is epic. And Avatar left no room for a sequel. Now, that being said, George Lucas could make an even better movie with epic plot and great CGI/3-D graphics



Star Wars was only great for its special effects to, and Star Wars plot is mediocore at best its not a great revolutionary story. How it is told is epic, just like Avatar. Also Avatar has been planned out in James Camerons head for about 15 years he has at least three movies planned. Avatar had the perfect ending to either make more movies or be content as one movie.


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## Glued (Jan 3, 2010)

By next year Avatar will be nothing more than a memory.


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## noobthemusical (Jan 3, 2010)

Gunners said:


> Stupid to compare them now, seeing as Star Wars has two triologies, books and a cult.
> 
> In 30-50 years time I'll bump this thread and give my opinion.



Avatar better have F-ing world ships by then or 1 Jedi still solo's


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## Banhammer (Jan 3, 2010)

Ciupy said:


> Wait until Avatar 2 and Avatar 3 to see how it stacks up against Star Wars as a whole..



Oh God no, please. IT was beautifull and it was over. No sequels Cameron, please, no sequals


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## Ciupy (Jan 3, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> Oh God no, please. IT was beautifull and it was over. No sequels Cameron, please, no sequals



Umm..first of all..he did say that he thought of it like a trilogy in the first place and he said that if the movie would make enough money and the general public would love it,he would make the other two (and considering the movie just made 1 billion dollars worldwide in 17 days ).

Second of all..this is the dude who made Aliens and Terminator 2,arguably some of the greatest sequels of all time.

The man's number one quality besides making shitloads of money is his uncanny ability to make good sequels!


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## Fang (Jan 3, 2010)

Superrazien said:


> Star Wars was only great for its special effects to, and Star Wars plot is mediocore at best its not a great revolutionary story. How it is told is epic, just like Avatar. Also Avatar has been planned out in James Camerons head for about 15 years he has at least three movies planned. Avatar had the perfect ending to either make more movies or be content as one movie.



loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool


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## Ciupy (Jan 3, 2010)

TWF said:


> loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool



Yeah.."looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool" 


I mean..you remember Star Wars for its deep plot and godlike characterization,not for the fact that it was fun as heck and it had a great universe and excellent SFX for its time,don't you? 



Ooops..I forgot all of those actually started seeping into the trilogy with its second movie,The Empire Strikes Back,and that viewed solely as a single movie A New Hope ain't nothing but eyecandy!


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## Fang (Jan 3, 2010)

I'm loling because both your statements are completely inane.


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## Ciupy (Jan 3, 2010)

TWF said:


> I'm loling because both your statements are completely inane.



I actually want some proof of this instead of you just wanking Star Wars like you usually do "just because".


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## Dexion (Jan 3, 2010)

Avatar = Kobe Bryant
Star Wars = Michael Jordan


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## Fang (Jan 3, 2010)

Ciupy said:


> I actually want some proof of this instead of you just wanking Star Wars like you usually do "just because".



Yeah the acting, and characters were clearly incredibly two-dimensional like those Mozarts in Avatar.


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## Ciupy (Jan 3, 2010)

TWF said:


> Yeah the acting, and characters were clearly incredibly two-dimensional like those Mozarts in Avatar.





What are you judging Avatar against.

The whole Star Wars epic as a whole,or just A New Hope which was the first movie in the original trilogy and which had a archetypal story (The Hero's Journey and all that) but had fun characters (although rather simple) and it actually had godlike SFX for its time.

It was revolutionary for its time in history due to its SFX and for the way in which those SFX allowed other filmmakers to tell their own stories.


Star Wars actually started to have depth with the Empire Strikes Back and beyond,with the books regarding the EU and the games as well.

So as it stands,you can't really judge Avatar against Star Wars unless you make it Avatar 1 vs A New Hope.

To make it the Avatarverse versus The Star Wars verse wait until the actual sequels.

As it stands now,heck yeah Star Wars would beat the heck out of Avatar 1 due to the fact that it has a place in the collective conciousness,30 years or so of movies,TV shows,books e.t.c.

The only sure way to tell if some blue smurfycats will win the hearts and minds of the people as well as Star Wars did is to wait!


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## Arishem (Jan 3, 2010)

The regulars at Stardestroyer.net like Avatar a lot, so I don't see any reason to be overly critical of the movie. It also wouldn't be too far off the mark to say that it's having a Star Wars like effect on kids and teens. I've heard many young people talking about "OMFG how amazing it was" wherever I go, which is something I haven't seen before with many big-budget blockbusters.


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## Steven Pinhead (Jan 3, 2010)

I'll just say this:

Twenty-some years after the original Star Wars trilogy had ended, people still filed out and paid millions to see the new trilogy. And they kept seeing the prequels even though they sucked donkey cock.

Will Avatar be able to say the same if its sequels suck?

(Also the original trilogy at least had some subtlety. Avatar was too heavy handed with its Al Gore inspired environmentalism, which was fucking unbearable.)


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## Arishem (Jan 3, 2010)

James Cameron has a damn good track record with sequels. Aliens and T2 were arguably better than the movies that proceeded them, although the latter was a different genre than the first. As for A New Hope having subtlety, lol wut? The Empire is about as cookie-cutter evil as you can get in the first movie. Darth Vader breaks a guy's neck in the middle of interrogating him, the Storm Troopers barbecue a bunch of harmless farmers, and blowing up an inhabited planet has all the emotional weight of washing dishes.


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## Fang (Jan 3, 2010)

Ciupy said:


> What are you judging Avatar against.
> 
> The whole Star Wars epic as a whole,or just A New Hope which was the first movie in the original trilogy and which had a archetypal story (The Hero's Journey and all that) but had fun characters (although rather simple) and it actually had godlike SFX for its time.



Nothing wasn't planned until the success of Star Wars: A New Hope/Episode IV was shown to be so staggering, since the only thing Lucas planned afterwards was a low budget straight to TV sequel.

Its infamous for having a great story, good actors, fantastic special effects and sound effects, interesting characters, and excellent pacing. 



> It was revolutionary for its time in history due to its SFX and for the way in which those SFX allowed other filmmakers to tell their own stories.



That is not the only reason.



> Star Wars actually started to have depth with the Empire Strikes Back and beyond,with the books regarding the EU and the games as well.



EU didn't start till 1987. 



> So as it stands,you can't really judge Avatar against Star Wars unless you make it Avatar 1 vs A New Hope.



Which makes little difference because A New Hope still surpasses it in story, plot, and creativity with Episode IV alone. What is Avatar, a film with a none too subtle point about archaic imperialism/industrialization vs "spirutality".



> To make it the Avatarverse versus The Star Wars verse wait until the actual sequels.



Okay, and what does this have to do with A New Hope vs Avatar?



> As it stands now,heck yeah Star Wars would beat the heck out of Avatar 1 due to the fact that it has a place in the collective conciousness,30 years or so of movies,TV shows,books e.t.c.



Star Wars TV special is nothing, Expanded Universe novels, stories, games, comics, ect...didn't start till 1987. And every single writer and author talks about the mythos of Star Wars from A New Hope, the movie, and almost nothing else.

It's a perfect blend of sci-fi and fantasy. And no Marvel Star Wars does not count.



> The only sure way to tell if some blue smurfycats will win the hearts and minds of the people as well as Star Wars did is to wait!



Star Wars is still fresh in people's minds for over 33 years and set the standard for sci fi/fantasy. Avatar is never going to beat it in that regards.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jan 3, 2010)

Ciupy said:


> *When Star Wars first aired waaaay back then it was considered a somewhat shallow story,with cliche characters and a weak plot*,but it had amazing groundbreaking special effects and with them it created a dense atmosphere that attracted the public in.
> 
> In short,it was what you now are deriding Avatar for.
> 
> ...


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## Ciupy (Jan 3, 2010)

Don't be a dick.

I meant no disrespect to Star Wars as a whole,but this is true as heck regarding A New Hope.

The visual effects and the fact that it was such a sheer fun movie to watch made it what it is today.

But sure as heck it was no Shakespeare just as Avatar isn't as well.


And TWF..


Regarding this:

"*Which makes little difference because A New Hope still surpasses it in story, plot, and creativity with Episode IV alone. What is Avatar, a film with a none too subtle point about archaic imperialism/industrialization vs "spirutality*"."


Let's be fucking honest here.

A New Hope's plot was basically a young kid joins La Resistance against the evil,evil space nazi.

That's all there is to it.


Before you go babbling about "spirutality" also keep in mind that Star Wars also dabs in this "spirutality" but heck,you don't seem to care about that!


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## Darth Nihilus (Jan 3, 2010)

Ciupy said:


> Let's be fucking honest here.
> 
> A New Hope's plot was basically a young kid joins La Resistance against the evil space nazi.
> 
> That's all there is to it.


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## Ciupy (Jan 3, 2010)

You know,some fucking arguments regarding why I actually am wrong would be ever so nice instead of spamming that abomination of a .gif !


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## Fang (Jan 3, 2010)

Your entire argument is that Star Wars is a generic sci-fi movie while each film alone proves in the original trilogy to be what it really is famous for: a great space opera and drama movie series.

The fact that you think the special effects is what made Episode IV such a massive hit is pretty bad.


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## Fang (Jan 3, 2010)

Also you might notice but the gif is toward the fact that you called Star Wars "cliche" with "shallow" plot and weak characters is what was hilarious to him. And most people who know anything about Star Wars know Episode IV had a strong cast of likable characters and stuff you don't see every day in other run of the mill sci-fi.


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## Arishem (Jan 3, 2010)

Great special effects with a well-executed Hero's Journey story and character archetypes is what made ANH successful. Lets be honest now, the special effects were a huge factor in the movie's success. A similar story with the same characters without the "WOW!" factor of exploding planets and giant spaceships wouldn't have been as memorable. Also, if you ask most old people what stood out most about Star Wars, they'll tell you that it was like nothing they've ever seen before. That being said, the addition of memorable characters is what made the movie great, but the story itself is simple. Execution of the setting and characters made the movie.


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## Ciupy (Jan 3, 2010)

TWF said:


> Also you might notice but the gif is toward the fact that you called Star Wars "cliche" with "shallow" plot and weak characters is what was hilarious to him. And most people who know anything about Star Wars know Episode IV had a strong cast of likable characters and stuff you don't see every day in other run of the mill sci-fi.



Okay..as to be clear about this.


The only good (pulp space opera) Sci-Fi before Star Wars was actually The Forbidden Planet.

That's all.

All others were actually B-grade movies that gained a cult following (The Day the Earth Stood Still).


And here comes Star Wars,something that even by today's standards has a kickass pace,cliche but hugely likeable characters and a pretty immersive atmosphere.


Wrap that up in the greatest SFX the world had ever seen at that point and you have yourself A New Hope.

The plot wasn't what made that movie,just like it is in the case of Avatar.


If Avatar and A New Hope's places would have been switched you would be right here with me arguing that A New Hope has a cliche storyline and that it is only worth seeing for its SFX.


Think about that for a minute and about how alike these two movies really are.


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## strongarm85 (Jan 3, 2010)

How old are you Ciupy?


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## Ciupy (Jan 3, 2010)

strongarm85 said:


> How old are you Ciupy?



23 years old in April.


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## strongarm85 (Jan 3, 2010)

And what was your first experience watching Star Wars?


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## Ciupy (Jan 3, 2010)

strongarm85 said:


> And what was your first experience watching Star Wars?



I watched it on a friend's VCR a couple of years after the Revolution..

To a small kid it was freaking awesome..

Watched Terminator and Terminator 2 as well then.


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## Fang (Jan 3, 2010)

Ciupy said:


> Okay..as to be clear about this.The only good (pulp space opera) Sci-Fi before Star Wars was actually The Forbidden Planet.



Forbidden Planet wasn't even that good. Flash Gordon was better as a space  opera then it.




> And here comes Star Wars,something that even by today's standards has a kickass pace,cliche but hugely likeable characters and a pretty immersive atmosphere.



How are any of the main characters or antagonists in Episode IV alone cliche. 



> Wrap that up in the greatest SFX the world had ever seen at that point and you have yourself A New Hope.
> 
> The plot wasn't what made that movie,just like it is in the case of Avatar.



That isn't the case with A New Hope as I've been telling you, the story is what sold it, the special effects are just icing on an already great piece of cake.



> If Avatar and A New Hope's places would have been switched you would be right here with me arguing that A New Hope has a cliche storyline and that it is only worth seeing for its SFX.



The plot is in no way cliche or generic for Episode IV. Nor is it a valid defense to argue if Avatar came before Star Wars, that their situations would be reversed. Star Wars is as much loved and venerated in pop culture today as it was when it first came out, with just the films, and nothing else alone. 

You have no idea if (and most likely it wouldn't ever) replicate Star Wars success. Hell the fact that TESB is considered the greatest sci fi sequel and probably even better than ANH makes it impossible for Avatar to ever rival Star Wars.



> Think about that for a minute and about how alike these two movies really are.



Aside from a forgetful cast barring the main baddie in Avatar? There are zero similarities except for the SE argument.


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## strongarm85 (Jan 3, 2010)

Ciupy said:


> I watched it on a friend's VCR a couple of years after the Revolution..



I don't understand what you mean by Revolution.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jan 3, 2010)

Ciupy said:


> You know,some fucking arguments regarding why I actually am wrong would be ever so nice instead of spamming that abomination of a .gif !


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## Ciupy (Jan 3, 2010)

TWF said:


> Forbidden Planet wasn't even that good. Flash Gordon was better as a space  opera then it.
> 
> *Too campy..Forbidden Planet had unintended camp and Star Wars had very little.*
> 
> ...



......................




strongarm85 said:


> I don't understand what you mean by Revolution.




The fall of communism in Eastern Europe circa 1989!


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## Fang (Jan 3, 2010)

Did you say Star Wars became a phenomenon after all six films?


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## Ciupy (Jan 3, 2010)

TWF said:


> Did you say Star Wars became a phenomenon after all six films?



I said that it was a great film and a great success at first but it became what it is today only after the original trilogy was completed.

Am I wrong in any way?


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## Fang (Jan 3, 2010)

yes, yes you are.


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## Ciupy (Jan 3, 2010)

TWF said:


> yes, yes you are.



So let me get this straight.

If only the original movie would have existed,no "Luke I am your father",no Yoda,no background on the Jedi Knights,no freaking Sidious,no "I am a Jedi,like my father before me" Star Wars would have been just as popular as it is today?


Really?


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## Fang (Jan 3, 2010)

No because I thought you were talking about with the Prequel Trilogy as well. And either way the movie still would've legendary on its own even without the bonus of TESB or RoTJ. Just nowhere near the entirety of the whole trilogy for the Sequel Trilogy era.

Still much much better than Avatar however.


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## Ciupy (Jan 3, 2010)

TWF said:


> No because I thought you were talking about with the Prequel Trilogy as well. And either way the movie still would've legendary on its own even without the bonus of TESB or RoTJ. Just nowhere near the entirety of the whole trilogy for the Sequel Trilogy era.
> 
> Still much much better than Avatar however.



Two things regarding this.


I choose to disregard the new trilogy..it's just better that way..



And regarding A New Hope being better than Avatar..to each his own I guess.."shrug"


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## Tranquil Fury (Jan 3, 2010)

Star Wars broke box office records when it first came out. It was always a phenomenon even before the completion of the original Trilogy. Avatar is a good movie too though.


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## Glued (Jan 3, 2010)

Star Wars was more captivating because of its characters. Look at how Han communicates with Chewie. Chewie just howls and grunts, but apparently those howls and grunts seem like complex speech to Han. Its funny. C3PO getting angry with R2's inane chirps and clicks is funny. Leia yelling at Han when they're trying to rescue her was funny. I felt way more sympathetic for Obi Wan than I did for either that research girl or Ney'itri's father. Ney'itri goes from hating Jake, to standing by him in what was probably hours. Tsu'ten hates Jake, but he sees the Toruk Montak, and he immediately accepts him. 

I'm not an expanded universe fan. Hell I don't even like the new trilogy.

Its the small moments that really count, such as Chewbacca getting angry at R2. Best line in the first movie, "R2, let the Wookie win."


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## strongarm85 (Jan 3, 2010)

Ciupy said:


> I said that it was a great film and a great success at first but it became what it is today only after the original trilogy was completed.
> 
> Am I wrong in any way?



You are.

The original Star Wars on its own was the most successful movie ever made. 20th Century Fox, the company that funded making the movie, never thought that Star Wars had a chance of being a commercial success, believing that it would be the only movie of the series ever to be made, and actually allowed George Lucas to keep all of the merchandising rights to the series.

Lots of people lined up to see Star Wars 5 or 6 times, and when the original Star Wars was released the price of a ticket was just $3.00 compared. For the price of buying 1 3D ticket for Avatar today I could have bought 5 tickets to see Star Wars in 1977.

When you adjust for inflation, the only movie in history to sell more tickets than the original Star Wars was Gone with the Wind. What you have to keep in mind with Gone with the Wind though is movie theaters and producers didn't follow the same business model that they do now. Now to give you some background on Gone with the Wind, it was released in 1939 and for decades was considered to be the greatest movie of all time. My mother first saw Gone with the Wind in the 1960's in a movie theater and they would send the movie out to theaters once a year every year.


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## Ciupy (Jan 3, 2010)

strongarm85 said:


> You are.
> 
> The original Star Wars on its own was the most successful movie ever made. 20th Century Fox, the company that funded making the movie, never thought that Star Wars had a chance of being a commercial success, believing that it would be the only movie of the series ever to be made, and actually allowed George Lucas to keep all of the merchandising rights to the series.
> 
> ...



My argument wasn't that A New Hope wasn't a monstruous hit,but that it needed its sequels to develop its mythos and transform it into a cultural phenomenon.


Avatar is still just one single movie and it yet remains to be seen if the sequels will accomplish that.


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## strongarm85 (Jan 3, 2010)

Ciupy said:


> My argument wasn't that A New Hope wasn't a monstruous hit,but that it needed its sequels to develop its mythos and transform it into a cultural phenomenon.
> 
> 
> Avatar is still just one single movie and it yet remains to be seen if the sequels will accomplish that.



I know that is you argument, but that argument is factually wrong.

A New Hope made Star Wars a Cultural Phenomenon. The other movies where made because A New Hope was the most successful movie ever made. Empire and Jedi actually made less money in the box office than A New Hope.


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## HumanWine (Jan 3, 2010)

Ben Grimm said:


> Star Wars was more captivating because of its characters. Look at how Han communicates with Chewie. Chewie just howls and grunts, but apparently those howls and grunts seem like complex speech to Han. Its funny. C3PO getting angry with R2's inane chirps and clicks is funny. Leia yelling at Han when they're trying to rescue her was funny.* I felt way more sympathetic for Obi Wan than I did for either that research girl or Ney'itri's father. Ney'itri goes from hating Jake, to standing by him in what was probably hours. Tsu'ten hates Jake, but he sees the Toruk Montak, and he immediately accepts him*.
> 
> I'm not an expanded universe fan. Hell I don't even like the new trilogy.
> 
> Its the small moments that really count, such as Chewbacca getting angry at R2. Best line in the first movie, "R2, let the Wookie win."



I dont understand the how this comparison makes Star Wars superior in terms of characters. I could can less about Obi Wan in the first film and didnt like him until the episode 1. Everything else was decent acting for its time and nothing superior to Avatar's acting. If anything, Avatar's acting and characters are better because of the technology's ability to show emotion through lifeless beings.

As for Neytiri's change in attitude about Jake, she believed he was special before she met him. She's a spiritual person, as is her culture, who respects life regardless of what is it. Look at the way Neytiri handed those tiger like creatures that tired to kill her; she prayed for it after slitting its throat. I dont see how thats farfetched seeing as she thought he was "chosen" by her God, especially after he tamed a legendary creature.


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## Pompous (Jan 3, 2010)

Superrazien said:


> Also Avatar has been planned out in James Camerons head for about 15 years he has at least three movies planned.



You would think that with all that time he would actually make sure it's well written. 

As far as special effects go I was more impressed by the trailer to Alice in Wonderland than the whole movie.


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## Gnome (Jan 3, 2010)

Avatar does suffer from some bad dialogue, especially Quaritch.


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## FrostXian (Jan 3, 2010)

I apologize, and would like to state that I do not want to attract any flame, beforehand, but..

What the fuck is this?
Are you comparing a typical;
X Race is good guys.
Humans are evil because of government and military and stuff.
Scientists say OH NO STOP.
Military attacks.
Y amount of humans, perhaps even just 1, turncoats.
X Race wins.


Replace X race from Indians to Na'vi and you get the plot of around 500 movies, be it Dancing With Wolves or Last Samurai or Pocahontas. 

How can you relate such a typical and overdone-to-death plot to StarWars? Sure, Avatar has top notch graphics, but it's plot and it's execution is terrible, because it's not what they were going for. Avatar is an overglorified tech demo.


This is like saying Twilight is a better series than StarWars.


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## Gnome (Jan 3, 2010)

FrostXian said:


> ~snip~
> This is like saying Twilight is a better series than StarWars.



that's going a bit too far


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## FrostXian (Jan 3, 2010)

Gnome on Fire said:


> that's going a bit too far



Avatar's unnecesary super-hype is making me like Twilight far better than it, simply because people can't see through the simple OOH SHINY factor.


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## Gnome (Jan 3, 2010)

FrostXian said:


> Avatar's unnecesary super-hype is making me like Twilight far better than it, simply because people can't see through the simple OOH SHINY factor.



the difference is that the "OOH SHINY" in avatar is actually done well. On the other hand Twilight is crap even as far as Romance stories go.


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## FrostXian (Jan 3, 2010)

Gnome on Fire said:


> the difference is that the "OOH SHINY" in avatar is actually done well. On the other hand Twilight is crap even as far as Romance stories go.



Alright, good point.
I am convinced that Avatar is better than Twilight.
Make of that what you will.


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## Banhammer (Jan 3, 2010)

FrostXian said:


> Alright, good point.
> I am convinced that Avatar is better than Twilight.
> Make of that what you will.



You needed convincing?

Please leave my internet.


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## KazeYama (Jan 3, 2010)

Avatar is a good movie because of the technology. Star Wars had great technology for the day but the story is what keeps it going 30+ years later. 

Take Avatar plot and give it the Star Wars budget and special effects capabilities from 30 years ago and it would have flopped since it would have been a bunch of guys with their skin painted blue running around flailing their arms. 

Star Wars is based on a classic epic story archetype dating back to the greek epics like the Odyssey and the Iliad. Sure it may be a cliche or a commonly used plot but the reason why is because it is entertaining and captivating every time. 

Avatar on the other hand is based off a simple cowboys vs. indians cliche which hardly has a longstanding tradition of being epic or captivating. That is the point where Avatar has its biggest flaw is that the central conflict and story is something that has been rehashed countless times and in this day and age it simply isn't as entertaining as it used to be when Western movies were all the rage. Star Wars brought all of these ancient themes into the modern world, Avatar just seemed like the same old same old except with a new (albeit incredibly pretty) coat of paint.


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## Borel (Jan 5, 2010)

Avatar: mediocre movie with a plot done to death, yet with awesome special effects.

Does not compare to Star Wars.


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## Hodo Astartes (Jan 5, 2010)

I liked Avatar. I really did. And I liked the story as well.
Sure, it does not invent a new genre, but compared to your average romance- flic it still is innovative as hell. 

Comparing it to Star Wars is a little unfair, though. Star Wars is established and has been for a log time. Also, the trilogy is completed, what makes the story round.

If you look at SW closely though, you will see there are many thigs, that just seem bizarre and illogical. Like the poor defenses on Death Star, especially on the weakest point. Why does this Farm Boy get to command a squadron? Jedi or not, he lacks experience.

I doubt, you would find such plot holes in Avatar.

For me, Avatar wins for extreme optical.


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## Banhammer (Jan 5, 2010)

FrostXian said:


> I apologize, and would like to state that I do not want to attract any flame, beforehand, but..
> 
> What the fuck is this?
> Are you comparing a typical;
> ...



Great acting + not horrible plot + visionary artwork = you raging for no good reason


> This is like saying Twilight is a better series than StarWars.





You didn't need to get rude.


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## Chee (Jan 5, 2010)

Star Wars man, Star Wars...original trilogy only. None of that space tax shit.


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## Banhammer (Jan 5, 2010)

Chee, did you pay your space taxes


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## Kuromaku (Jan 5, 2010)

Star Wars by a mile.  Aside from the obvious points already mentioned, it spawned numerous iconic characters, including one of the greatest villains of all time.  Avatar, on the other hand, had a bunch of poorly written cliches, although Quaritch makes up for it by being a total badass.  Shame they killed him, I like an awesome villain, poorly written as he was.


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## Nagato Sennin (Jan 5, 2010)

Star Wars is horrible by today's standards, acting is bad, bad storyline, Evil father? Oh so original. Star Wars is only adored by people with nostalgic goggles and that's it. 










But in all honesty, Both were/are revolutionary for there time

also, Was anyone born when A New Hope came to theaters and watched it then? My Dad is a Star Wars Junkie and said that Avatar was a better experience than A New Hope.


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## Glued (Jan 5, 2010)

Well my buddy fell asleep while watching Avatar.

Hey, anyone here actually remember the comic relief in Avatar? I sure don't.


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