# Ash Ketchum's Six Strongest PoKeMoN?



## Stunna (Apr 10, 2011)

What's Ash's "Sensational Six"?

I know that Pikachu, Charizard, and Snorlax would be in it, but who else?


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## Legend (Apr 10, 2011)

Pikachu,Charizard,Snorlax,Sceptile,Glailie,Heracross


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## Velocity (Apr 10, 2011)

Pikachu and Charizard. He needs no others 'cause those two are obscenely broken.


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## ElementX (Apr 11, 2011)

His broken Pikachu apparently got curbstomped by a lvl. 5 Snivy so.... thar you go.


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## Akatora (Apr 11, 2011)

Not sure but in team battle then Swellow + Pikachu has yet to be outdone in the anime imo


Thunder armor on Swellow...


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## Fleet Admiral Akainu (Apr 11, 2011)

Its been done before



Its agreed that Pikachu, Charizard, and Snorlax are top 3. The rest is open for debate. I would argue Infernape be included. The remaining mentions in my opinion would be Sceptile, Bulbasaur, Squirtle, Glalie, Heracross and Gliscor.


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## 海外ニキ (Apr 11, 2011)

ElementX said:


> His broken Pikachu apparently got curbstomped by a lvl. 5 Snivy so.... thar you go.



Honestly, I don't know what's more stupid. Getting beaten by the Snivy or the Elekid.


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## Mαri (Apr 11, 2011)

Motherfucking Heracross.


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## Masurao (Apr 11, 2011)

~Zaxxon~ said:


> Honestly, I don't know what's more stupid. Getting beaten by the Snivy or the Elekid.



The writers just don't want Ash to succeed. How else to you explain him going from Top 4 in a regional league, and being the only trainer to take out two legendaries, one of which Pikachu *TIED* with, to losing to a just out of lab Pokemon? Pikachu being the one that lost. 

The writers don't give a crap about consistency when it comes to Ash, they just distort his skills to add more so called "drama" to the series.

To answer the topic though:

Charizard
Pikachu
Infernape
Sceptile
Snorlax
Swellow/Heracross/Glalie


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## TeenRyu (Apr 11, 2011)

Masurao said:


> The writers just don't want Ash to succeed. How else to you explain him going from Top 4 in a regional league, and being the only trainer to take out two legendaries, one of which Pikachu *TIED* with, to losing to a just out of lab Pokemon? Pikachu being the one that lost.
> 
> The writers don't give a crap about consistency when it comes to Ash, they just distort his skills to add more so called "drama" to the series.
> 
> ...



this /thread. if ash wasnt so bogged down by cis and pis, then he would have won every tournament he was in. Literally.


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## ElementX (Apr 11, 2011)

Not only that, but Ash also seems to have a memory lapse between regions. I haven't watched the anime in a while, but I decided to check out the opening ep of BW and he was acting as if he had just started his adventure a day ago. He threw a poke ball without trying to weaken the Pokemon first. Seriously? He also seemed to act younger. I understand if they want a fresh start, but why the attachment to Ash's character? Just get a new main character if that's what you want.


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## Bioness (Apr 11, 2011)

Fleet Admiral Akainu said:


> Its been done before
> 
> 
> 
> Its agreed that Pikachu, Charizard, and Snorlax are top 3. The rest is open for debate. I would argue Infernape be included. The remaining mentions in my opinion would be Sceptile, Bulbasaur, Squirtle, Glalie, Heracross and Gliscor.



Damn it I was going to post that


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## KamiKazi (Apr 11, 2011)

6 of his random tauros. i assume leaving them with Oak is the same as leaving them at the day care so they should at least be fully leveled by now


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## 海外ニキ (Apr 11, 2011)

Masurao said:


> The writers just don't want Ash to succeed. How else to you explain him going from Top 4 in a regional league, and being the only trainer to take out two legendaries, one of which Pikachu *TIED* with, to losing to a just out of lab Pokemon? Pikachu being the one that lost.
> 
> The writers don't give a crap about consistency when it comes to Ash, they just distort his skills to add more so called "drama" to the series.



Yeah, considering that the old target audience has grown up since the first few seasons, and that they're now appealing to a new generation of kids, it doesn't even seem necessary to hold onto the Ash character.

Because as Ash himself will do many times throughout the entirety of the series, he'll actually talk about memories of his past adventures, sometimes with flashbacks. And then that doesn't make sense at all as to why he acts like a freakin n00b to everything. 

Although I suppose it's probably because it's Pikachu who's the star of everything Pokemon, amirite?


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## Stunna (Apr 11, 2011)

Yeah, you just know that if there was a new protagonist, he would have a Pikachu too.

I like it when Ash has flashbacks, or references old friends like Misty. Makes me feel nostalgic :33


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## Legend (Apr 11, 2011)

i believe this is relevant to this topic


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## 海外ニキ (Apr 11, 2011)

Everybody forgets Butterfree.


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## Legend (Apr 11, 2011)

It is in this picture though


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## Mαri (Apr 11, 2011)

I forgot about his Primeape  .


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## Tsukiyo (Apr 11, 2011)

all the ones that he doesnt use anymore. (charizard, snorlax etc.) excluding his pikachu of course.


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## Stunna (Apr 11, 2011)

Damn, I miss Pidgeot.

I hate Ash for never going back for it like he promised.


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## Starrk (Apr 11, 2011)

Pikachu is bottom dollar. 

Charizard, Infernape, and Snorlax are top.


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## Tsukiyo (Apr 11, 2011)

Stunna said:


> Damn, I miss Pidgeot.
> 
> I hate Ash for never going back for it like he promised.



he needs to go get Pidgeot and his damn Charizard back from that valley


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## Starrk (Apr 11, 2011)

I believe the Haunter he left with Sabrina could kick some metaphorical ass.


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## Tsukiyo (Apr 11, 2011)

Stark said:


> Pikachu is bottom dollar.
> 
> Charizard, Infernape, and Snorlax are top.



ashs pikachu is haxed. it shouldnt be able to beat rock or ground pokemon like that


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## 海外ニキ (Apr 11, 2011)

Tsukiyo said:


> ashs pikachu is haxed. it shouldnt be able to beat rock or ground pokemon like that



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zU0DAruo2CA[/YOUTUBE]

I still fucking love that.


And the later integration of the Lightning Rod ability.


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## Bioness (Apr 11, 2011)

technically rock types have a neutral resistance against electricity, it is ground types that are unaffected by it.


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## Rhythmic- (Apr 12, 2011)

His Pikachu's too inconsistent imo.

Charizard
Sceptile
Snorlax
Hercross
Gliscor
Glalie

Notable accomplishments
Zard beating Articuno.
Sceptile beating Darkrai.
Snorlax beating 2 of Gary's 3 pokes, and 2 more of Harrison's. In back to back rounds.
Heracross beating Gary's Magmar.
Gliscor got more usage after evolving, and helped Ash win his mine badge.
Glalie played a vital role during the 'Ever Grande Conference' tournament.

I somewhat want to take out Heracross for Infernape though. Nape was a monster in that Lily of the valley tournament.


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## Drunkenwhale (Apr 12, 2011)

Bioness said:


> technically rock types have a neutral resistance against electricity, it is ground types that are unaffected by it.



I love that, I fought some guy who used a Rampardos, a pure rock, and I had my Raichu hit it with Thunder, because I felt like it. I reminded him about it and he was like, "fuck..."

Yeah, they really need to change up protagonists. If you're going to remind us of the past, at least give the kids a chance to see the old series, especially since Japan I think is one of those countries that doesn't repeat shows except for a rare occasion.

Sadly, Ash is just as much an impact to the franchise as Pikachu. So many people love Ash, confuse Red for Ash, and it pisses me off because I hate Ash.


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## LMJ (Apr 13, 2011)

Infernape is pretty sick too with Blaze.


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## Stunna (Apr 13, 2011)

I want them to freaking due something with Giovanni too.

Stop showing him sitting at his desk plotting if he isn't going to do anything!

He's been plotting for like 14 years now!


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## LMJ (Apr 13, 2011)

They should do a 10 year time skip where everyone is older and is a bit mature. Oh, and Ash hits puberty.


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## Stunna (Apr 13, 2011)

Meh.

I'm not really big on a Pokemon series with an adult protagonist.

What I want is a ripoff of Yu-Gi-Oh! GX. An anime series about a Pokemon Academy.


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## Black Wraith (Apr 13, 2011)

Do you think Ash gamesharked his Pikachu?


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## Stunna (Apr 13, 2011)

I'm honestly surprised that there was never a "Very Special Episode" back in the original series about drug abuse, using Rare Candies as a substitute.


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## ElementX (Apr 13, 2011)

Black Wraith said:


> Do you think Ash gamesharked his Pikachu?



Nah, it  just was a born with a light ball.


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## Cocoa (Aug 20, 2011)

Charizard, Snorlax, Sceptile, Pikachu, Bulbasaur, and Infernape/Tauros/Donphan/Swellow/Squirtle/Corphish/Heracross/Kingler/Glalie.

Bulbasaur deserves a spot in the top 5 because of his performance against Brandon. Bulbasaur tanked more attacks from Dusclops than Charizard did (some of which were super effective against Bulbasaur IE. Will-o-wisp) We know Charizard is very durable and the fact that Bulbasaur tanked more than him should be recognized. His razor leaf tied with will-o-wisp which is something Charizard's flamethrower did. He also took out Solrock who was undamaged from his fight with Squirtle. Also, Bulbasaur has many other notable victories under his belt. People tend to severely underestimate Bulbsaur. Bulbasaur is easily in the top 5. The 6th spot is the hardest to determine.

Pikachu is on my list because of his end of season showings. If we were counting his early/mid season showings then I would switch him out for Infernape.

I am aware that this is a necro and I regret nothing.


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## Nois (Aug 20, 2011)

Rhythmic- said:


> His Pikachu's too inconsistent imo.
> 
> Charizard
> Sceptile
> ...



Ash is so fodder for not pimping the universe with this setup


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## Cocoa (Aug 20, 2011)

Nois said:


> Ash is so fodder for not pimping the universe with this setup



How so?

Bulbasaur > Heracross
Swellow/Corphish/Tauros > Gliscor


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## MrChubz (Aug 26, 2011)

Charizard, Snorlax, and Heracross twice over.


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## Waking Dreamer (Aug 26, 2011)

Cocoa said:


> How so?
> 
> Bulbasaur > Heracross
> Swellow/Corphish/Tauros > Gliscor



Dont remember  Bulbasaurs best feats but Heracross took a Flamethower and Fireblast head on and proceeded to win. 

Thats pretty, freaking broken...


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## Ginkurage (Aug 26, 2011)

Pikachu
Charizard
Snorlax
Heracross
Sceptile
Infernape


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## Nechku Chan (Aug 26, 2011)

Pikachu
Bulbasaur
Chimchar
Phamphy?(Screw Spelling)
Charizard
Scizzor

Pikachu is the Strongest In my opinion,He defeated Raichu 3 times, that is his Evolution! How can Pikachu's Thunder even Affect Raichu? that is a FAIL.He beats Ground,Water,Fire Etc,Electric beats ground WTF? Pikachu must Secretly be all Pokemon Elements.


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## Cocoa (Aug 26, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Dont remember  Bulbasaurs best feats but Heracross took a Flamethower and Fireblast head on and proceeded to win.
> 
> Thats pretty, freaking broken...



You should read my first post in this thread.

Bulbasaur deserves a spot in the top 5 because of his performance against Brandon. Bulbasaur tanked more attacks from Dusclops than Charizard did (some of which were super effective against Bulbasaur IE. Will-o-wisp) We know Charizard is very durable and the fact that Bulbasaur tanked more than him should be recognized. His razor leaf tied with will-o-wisp which is something Charizard's flamethrower did. He also took out Solrock who was undamaged from his fight with Squirtle. Also, Bulbasaur has many other notable victories under his belt. People tend to severely underestimate Bulbsaur. Bulbasaur is easily in the top 5. The 6th spot is the hardest to determine.

Let's not forget that Dusclop's willowisp = Charizard's flamethrower >>>>>> Magmar's fireblast. Bulbasaur tied that willowisp with razor leaf. Also, Bulbasaur tanked several of those willowisps with no problems. Heracross' durability is thus not as impressive. A weaker version of Charizard took out Blastoise and Heracross didn't stand a chance. In the fight against Brandon...Charizard and Bulbasaur were shown to be obvious equals.


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## MrChubz (Aug 26, 2011)

Cocoa said:


> You should read my first post in this thread.
> 
> Bulbasaur deserves a spot in the top 5 because of his performance against Brandon. Bulbasaur tanked more attacks from Dusclops than Charizard did (some of which were super effective against Bulbasaur IE. Will-o-wisp) We know Charizard is very durable and the fact that Bulbasaur tanked more than him should be recognized. His razor leaf tied with will-o-wisp which is something Charizard's flamethrower did. He also took out Solrock who was undamaged from his fight with Squirtle. Also, Bulbasaur has many other notable victories under his belt. People tend to severely underestimate Bulbsaur. Bulbasaur is easily in the top 5. The 6th spot is the hardest to determine.
> 
> Let's not forget that Dusclop's willowisp = Charizard's flamethrower >>>>>> Magmar's fireblast. Bulbasaur tied that willowisp with razor leaf. Also, Bulbasaur tanked several of those willowisps with no problems. Heracross' durability is thus not as impressive. A weaker version of Charizard took out Blastoise and Heracross didn't stand a chance. In the fight against Brandon...*Charizard and Bulbasaur were shown to be obvious equals*.


Charizard defeated an Articuno, went toe-to-toe with a Dragonite (wasn't even fresh mind you) and did critical damage, and also took on an Entei and matched some of his fire attacks. Bulbasaur is a dingle berry in comparison. 

The Dusclops fight (and most of the Brandon fight in general) is the worst, most inconsistent fight in the anime, (even counting using Thunder as Armor) ans shouldn't be used to determine anything.


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## Cocoa (Aug 26, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Charizard defeated an Articuno, went toe-to-toe with a Dragonite (wasn't even fresh mind you) and did critical damage, and also took on an Entei and matched some of his fire attacks. Bulbasaur is a dingle berry in comparison.
> 
> The Dusclops fight (and most of the Brandon fight in general) is the worst, most inconsistent fight in the anime, (even counting using Thunder as Armor) ans shouldn't be used to determine anything.



Brandon is shown to be one of the strongest trainers in the show (barring elite four and champions). There is nothing inconsistent about the battle. Brandon would need pokemon as strong or stronger than the Regis (who are legendaries as well) in order to catch them. You are using your own opinion to get in the way of a legitimate fight. I determine things based on feats not my own opinion. There is nothing inconsistent about Brandon's fight. Dusclops is on the same level as a regular legendary pokemon. What is wrong with that?

They were even mentioning in the show about how dusclops and charizard were equals in power. After Charizard went down they said the same about Bulbasaur. They don't even need to say anything for the obvious to be apparent. Just because you do not like the idea of Bulbasaur being on the same level as Charizard does not make it right. Bulbasaur would lose to Articuno, Entei, and Charizard based on type advantage and attack advantages, and etc. That does not mean Bulbsaur isn't on the same level as Charizard.


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## MrChubz (Aug 26, 2011)

Bulbasaur took down a pokemon Charizard couldn't and Razor Leaf implied to be as strong as one of Entei's attacks. Yeah, that fight can't be sued.


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## Cocoa (Aug 26, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Bulbasaur took down a pokemon Charizard couldn't and Razor Leaf implied to be as strong as one of Entei's attacks. Yeah, that fight can't be sued.


That isn't for you to decide. A>B>C Bulbasaur was just better equipped to fight Dusclops. Just like Charizard is better equipped to fight Entei. Dusclops is legendary tier = Entei is legendary tier. If I wanted to I could just say it wasn't a real Entei... then we would be left with the Articuno fight as a legendary feat for Charizard. Brandon's pokemon should be stronger than that Articuno. Nothing you say will change what has been shown. Bulbasaur is in Ash's top six pokemon.


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## MrChubz (Aug 26, 2011)

Cocoa said:


> That isn't for you to decide. A>B>C Bulbasaur was just better equipped to fight Dusclops. Just like Charizard is better equipped to fight Entei. Dusclops is legendary tier = Entei is legendary tier. If I wanted to I could just say it wasn't a real Entei... then we would be left with the Articuno fight as a legendary feat for Charizard. Brandon's pokemon should be stronger than that Articuno. Nothing you say will change what has been shown. Bulbasaur is in Ash's top six pokemon.



It's for the anime to decide and guess what, Bulbasaus never done anything close to what Charizard has done in the very long time he's had Bulbasaur. Name me 2 things Bulbasaur has done (aside from the Brandon fight) that puts him anywhere close to where the Brandon fight suggests he should be.

Also, Bulbsaur wasn't better equipped to fight Dusclops. Charizard just had the misfortune of having bad writing and a shitty, retarded trainer who decided to use steel wing over and over and tried to finish Dusclops with a normal type attack.


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## Cocoa (Aug 26, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> It's for the anime to decide and guess what, Bulbasaus never done anything close to what Charizard has done in the very long time he's had Bulbasaur. Name me 2 things Bulbasaur has done (aside from the Brandon fight) that puts him anywhere close to where the Brandon fight suggests he should be.
> 
> Also, Bulbsaur wasn't better equipped to fight Dusclops. Charizard just had the misfortune of having bad writing and a shitty, retarded trainer who decided to use steel wing over and over and tried to finish Dusclops with a normal type attack.



It is for the anime to decide and guess what...they showcased him as being around Charizard's level. Bulbasaur doesn't need to fight exotic legendaries to prove that when it is apparent that Dusclops is on the level of a legendary. You are just being picky. I shouldn't have to show anything outside of his fight with Brandon. Ash hasn't used him in a long time and we do not even know at what level those other pokemon he fought are. Thus his older feats are unquantifiable. However his fight with Brandon is quantifiable. If you were to talk with the people who wrote the anime they would tell you that Bulbasaur is around Charizard's level. Do you know why? Because they want him to be.

Actually Bulbasaur is better equipped. I will go into detail if you want. Yes, Ash really sucked when he used Charizard. I would have fought completely different with Charizard.


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## MrChubz (Aug 26, 2011)

That was a long, drawn-out concession.


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## Cocoa (Aug 26, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> That was a long, drawn-out concession.



That wasn't a concession. You cannot prove me wrong. Thus you should be the one giving me a concession.


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## Fleet Admiral Akainu (Aug 26, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Bulbasaur took down a pokemon Charizard couldn't and Razor Leaf implied to be as strong as one of Entei's attacks. Yeah, that fight can't be sued.



Charizard lost because Ash didn't know what he was doing. Seismic toss on a ghost type?

Regardless, Bulbasaur kept up with attacks that Charizard tied with and tanked just as many hits if not more.

Charizard is the better pokemon because of several reasons being flight, larger movepool, and more overall diversity in battle strategys. But Bulbasaur keeps up in strength, speed, durability, and experience.


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## MrChubz (Aug 26, 2011)

If you can't show me anything that proves his showing against Brandon is consistent with Bulbasaur's level of power (Bulbasaur's been around for ever, he's done enough things) then it's an inconsistency.


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## Wicked (Aug 26, 2011)

Charizard
Snorlax
Heracross
Donphan
Pidgeot
Roggenrola


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## MrChubz (Aug 26, 2011)

Fleet Admiral Akainu said:


> Charizard lost because Ash didn't know what he was doing. Seismic toss on a ghost type?
> 
> Regardless, Bulbasaur kept up with attacks that Charizard tied with and tanked just as many hits if not more.
> 
> Charizard is the better pokemon because of several reasons being flight, larger movepool, and more overall diversity in battle strategys. But Bulbasaur keeps up in strength, speed, durability, and experience.



Then you should have no problem showing me some good feats that put him on Charizard level without using the Bandon fight.


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## Fleet Admiral Akainu (Aug 26, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> If you can't show me anything that proves his showing against Brandon is consistent with Bulbasaur's level of power (Bulbasaur's been around for ever, he's done enough things) then it's an inconsistency.



Look up Bulbasaur's win record then. He regularly defeats fully evolved pokemon on a consistant basis.



MrChubz said:


> Then you should have no problem showing me some good feats that put him on Charizard level without using the Bandon fight.



They both came back stronger for the Frontier saga. Was it believable Charizard could have beaten an Articuno before then? Why don't you just say the Frontier saga is inconsistent overall instead.


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## Cocoa (Aug 26, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> If you can't show me anything that proves his showing against Brandon is consistent with Bulbasaur's level of power (Bulbasaur's been around for ever, he's done enough things) then it's an inconsistency.



Since Bulbasaur has always won battles for Ash there is no inconsistency. Also, you are not the person who can determine what is consistent or not. Considering how you are completely ignoring the Brandon fight. Prove it's inconsistent. Oh wait you can't. Bulbasaur has always been a powerhouse on Ash's team. 

Definition of inconsistent = Pikachu. Bulbasaur is not inconsistent.


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## MrChubz (Aug 26, 2011)

Fleet Admiral Akainu said:


> Look up Bulbasaur's win record then. He regularly defeats fully evolved pokemon on a consistant basis.



Cool. Any of these guys as strong as Entei, Articuno, half of Gary's team, and Dragonite?


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## Cocoa (Aug 26, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Cool. Any of these guys as strong as Entei, Articuno, *half of Gary's team, and Dragonite*?



Can you prove they aren't? No? Okay then. Bulbasaur showcased fighting a legendary level pokemon in his battle against Brandon. Articuno wasn't used correctly either and Entei wasn't a real Entei. Does that make them inconsistent? No, because we cannot prove that they are.


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## MrChubz (Aug 26, 2011)

Cocoa said:


> Since Bulbasaur has always won battles for Ash there is no inconsistency. Also, you are not the person who can determine what is consistent or not. Considering how you are completely ignoring the Brandon fight. Prove it's inconsistent. Oh wait you can't. Bulbasaur has always been a powerhouse on Ash's team.
> 
> Definition of inconsistent = Pikachu. Bulbasaur is not inconsistent.



I can prove it's inconsistent. Charizard's flame thrower has been shown to be as strong as Entei's fire attacks. Bulbsaur's razor leaf's have not even come close before. Yet somehow they both matched Will-O Wisp. Inconsistency. Charizard has kept-up with an Articuno and a Dargonite. Bulbasaur hasn't come close before. Yet somehow they both had the same reactions. Inconsistency. Charizard has tanked Gary's Blastiose's Hydro Pump (powerful move and type disadvantage). To my knowledge Bulbsaur has done nothing of the sort. Yet the same attacks that put Charizard down Bulbasaur somehow managed to tank (at a type disadvantage nonetheless). Inconsistency. I'm sure I could go on if I researched it enough.

So for the final time, show me anything Bulbasaur has ever done to put him even close to the power-level the Brandon fight suggests he's at not using the Brandon fight himself or concede.


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## Fleet Admiral Akainu (Aug 26, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> Cool. Any of these guys as strong as Entei, Articuno, half of Gary's team, and Dragonite?



You're missing the circumstances of all those battles.

Charizard held the advantage over Entei with flight and fought the battle with ranged attacks. Entei easily overpowered him once he closed the distance.

Charizard coming stronger and beating an Articuno. Gee I don't know "inconsistant" right?

Ash was using weaker pokemon than Bulbasaur to fight Gary's team. It was meant to keep his unpredictability with pokemon Gary's never seen Ash use. I hardly see you point.

Charizard singlehandedly beat a Dragonite?

Again, Bulbasaur wouldn't beat any of these pokemon(except Gary's) because he lacks the diversity Charizard has.


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## MrChubz (Aug 26, 2011)

Cocoa said:


> Can you prove they aren't? No?


Burden of proof is on the positive.



> Okay then. Bulbasaur showcased fighting a legendary level pokemon in his battle against Brandon.


According to the wiki it fought a Dusclops and a Solrock. 



> Articuno wasn't used correctly either and Entei wasn't a real Entei. Does that make them inconsistent? No, because we cannot prove that they are.


We can't prove they are because Charizard is a tested and proven badass.


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## MrChubz (Aug 26, 2011)

Fleet Admiral Akainu said:


> You're missing the circumstances of all those battles.
> 
> Charizard held the advantage over Entei with flight and fought the battle with ranged attacks. Entei easily overpowered him once he closed the distance.


I'm not saying Charizard is as strong as Entei. I'm saying Charizard's Flame Thrower stalemated with one of Entei's stronger fire attacks. Now people are saying Bulbasaur's razor leaf is as strong as Flamethrower? That's laughable. This is Roshi busted the moon territory.



> Charizard coming stronger and beating an Articuno. Gee I don't know "inconsistant" right?


Unlike Bulbasaur, Charizard is backed with strong showings.



> Ash was using weaker pokemon than Bulbasaur to fight Gary's team. It was meant to keep his unpredictability with pokemon Gary's never seen Ash use. I hardly see you point.


I don't see Bulbasaur doing anything like sweeping half of Gary's team (with a type disadvantage half of the time at that). Also I wouldn't exactly call Charizard, Snorlax, and Heracross weak.



> Charizard singlehandedly beat a Dragonite?


He had impressive showing against it.



> Again, Bulbasaur wouldn't beat any of these pokemon(except Gary's) because he lacks the diversity Charizard has.


You mean he can't defeat strong Pokemon because he's not strong enough to.


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## Cocoa (Aug 26, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> I can prove it's inconsistent. Charizard's flame thrower has been shown to be as strong as Entei's fire attacks. Bulbsaur's razor leaf's have not even come close before. Yet somehow they both matched Will-O Wisp. Inconsistency. Charizard has kept-up with an Articuno and a Dargonite. Bulbasaur hasn't come close before. Yet somehow they both had the same reactions. Inconsistency. Charizard has tanked Gary's Blastiose's Hydro Pump (powerful move and type disadvantage). To my knowledge Bulbsaur has done nothing of the sort. Yet the same attacks that put Charizard down Bulbasaur somehow managed to tank (at a type disadvantage nonetheless). Inconsistency. I'm sure I could go on if I researched it enough.
> 
> So for the final time, show me anything Bulbasaur has ever done to put him even close to the power-level the Brandon fight suggests he's at not using the Brandon fight himself or concede.



Show me where pokemon regularly dispatch a more current Bulbasaur's razorleaf. None? Okay.

Bulbasaur hasn't fought a flying opponent like Articuno or Dragonite so that is irrelevant. We are talking about the same level. Bulbasaur can be on the same level without having to fight pokemon who clearly have an advantage over a pokemon of Bulbasaur's type. You cannot prove that Dragonite and Articuno are on the same level. Charizard would clearly wipe the floor with that level of Dragonite by now. We do not know how strong Bulbasaur's previous opponents were...thus you cannot say it's inconsistent. Dusclops is obviously on a legendary level. 

Your point? Obviously Dusclop's attacks are stronger than Blastoise's attacks. So trying to bring up this...."Show me he has fought pokemon of this description outside of the one fight that shows this" is a bunch of crap. The burden of proof is on you to prove the pokemon Bulbasaur fought previously were not at high levels at all. Your argument is just like this. "Bulbasaur has never fought legendaries before. Bulbasaur has not fought Psuedo Legendaries before. Bulbasaur has never fought pokemon that showed they could fight on par with Charizard (outside of his fight with Brandon)." He doesn't need to. He has fought plenty of high level pokemon and won. There is no inconsistency. He fought in the Brandon battle and did better than Charizard. Deal with it. Bulbasaur's feats before this were unquantifiable and now we have a quantifiable feat. Show me a feat that contradicts this. Oh wait you can't.


----------



## MrChubz (Aug 26, 2011)

Cocoa said:


> Show me where pokemon regularly dispatch a more current Bulbasaur's razorleaf. None? Okay.


I bet an Entei could do it.



> Bulbasaur hasn't fought a flying opponent like Articuno or Dragonite so that is irrelevant. We are talking about the same level. Bulbasaur can be on the same level without having to fight pokemon who clearly have an advantage over a pokemon of Bulbasaur's type. You cannot prove that Dragonite and Articuno are on the same level. Charizard would clearly wipe the floor with that level of Dragonite by now. *We do not know how strong Bulbasaur's previous opponents were...thus you cannot say it's inconsistent*. Dusclops is obviously on a legendary level.


We know Bulbasaur's opponents aren't on the same level as legendaries. That's good enough.



> Your point?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Fleet Admiral Akainu (Aug 26, 2011)

Cocoa pretty much summarized the best points.

You have 3 battles saying Bulbasaur is fodder to Charizard. Even though Bulbasaur has had a solid win record.

Bulbasaur also trains by keeping the peace at Oaks lab. Oak has said without Bulbasaur the pokemon would fall under desputes, but Bulbasaur makes them his bitches. Its not unlikely he would improve just as much as Charizard does. Which they both did coming into the Frontier arc.

For Ash's battle against Gary. Tauros, Bayleef, Muk, and Heracross are below him.

In the second movie, all of Pikachu, Bulbasaur, Squirtle, and Charizard's attacks were shown equal when their combined efforts freed Moltres from his containment.


----------



## MrChubz (Aug 26, 2011)

Fleet Admiral Akainu said:


> Cocoa pretty much summarized the best points.


The points being, "lalala I don't hear you lalala,"



> You have 3 battles saying Bulbasaur is fodder to Charizard. Even though Bulbasaur has had a solid win record.


Having a solid win record isn't impressive. You know what is? Matching the fire-power of a legendary. Defeating a legendary. Going toe-to-toe with Psuedo-legendaries not even in you're prime. Bulbasaur hasn't shown anything of the sort so therefore he is weaker.



> Bulbasaur also trains by keeping the peace at Oaks lab. Oak has said without Bulbasaur the pokemon would fall under desputes, but Bulbasaur makes them his bitches.
> 
> Its not unlikely he would improve just as much as Charizard does. Which they both did coming into the Frontier arc.


So you're telling me that breaking-up fights in Oka's lab makes you as strong as going toe-to-toe with legendaries and psuedo-legendaries.



> For Ash's battle against Gary. Tauros, Bayleef, Muk, and Heracross are below him.


How does this make Charizard defeating  of Gary's pokemon (having a type disadvantage against two of them) less impressive? More importantly, can you show me anything suggesting Bulbasaur can defeat 3 Pokemon about on his level with a type disadvantage against two?



> In the second movie, all of Pikachu, Bulbasaur, Squirtle, and Charizard's attacks were shown equal when their combined efforts freed Moltres from his containment.


In the 2nd episode of DBZ Piccolo and Goku were equals. They must be equals during the Buu saga too, amirite?


----------



## Cocoa (Aug 26, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> I bet an Entei could do it.


Proof? None? Good.



MrChubz said:


> We know Bulbasaur's opponents aren't on the same level as legendaries. That's good enough.


Proof? None? Thus it's unquantifiable. 

The one that is quantifiable is Dusclops.



MrChubz said:


> Your point?
> Show me a fucking durability feat from Bulbsaur. That's my point.


His battle against Dusclops. Whatever you say does not change that fact. It happened. You do not want to accept it. Thus it's your own problem.



MrChubz said:


> I'm saying show me feats from Bulbasaur to match feats from Charizard. You've been trying to get out of showing me actual feats for an entire page now. Stop being a pussy and show me something that puts Bulbasaur on legendary level.


His battle against Brandon. There I proved it. I do not have to write anything else about his durability feats. I am pussy for posting Bulbasaur's only quantifiable feats? lol



MrChubz said:


> Proof is on you to show that anyone Bulbsaur has fought is on the level Charizard has fought. You can't. Thanks for trying. Now go away.


 Dusclops. There I proved it. Disprove that. Oh wait you can't.



MrChubz said:


> My arguement is that Bulbasaur hasn't fought anything on the calibur of Charizard.


Dusclops. You cannot discount proof.



MrChubz said:


> You're claim is that Bulbasaur is about as strong as Charizard, so you need to show me something that puts him on Charizard's level.


His fight against Dusclops.



MrChubz said:


> I have many times. you just go, lol, no Bulbasaur is strong because I say he is.


I never said that. I showed feats to prove that Bulbasaur is that strong. You are the one doing that. This is you..."Bulbasaur is nowhere near Charizard's level because I do not want to accept what I saw in the battle against Brandon." Feats > your opinion



MrChubz said:


> Here's you're argument, "Bulbasaur has never fought anyone or has done anything on the same level as Charizard, but he doesn't have to because he's a big fish in a small pond,"
> 
> If you want me to believe that Bulbasaur is on the same level as Charizard and that the Brandon fight wasn't shit, inconsistent writing, do these 3 things.
> 
> ...


Considering how Bulbasaur's other fights are unquantifiable. (Besides Pikachu getting stomped and Bulbasaur being able to fight those opponents equally). There is no way for you to prove that they couldn't fight at Charizard's level. Meaning those fights are irrelevant. I only need to use Brandon's fight. 

He fought Dusclops, he tanked more attacks than Charizard.
Charizard's speed is higher than Bulbasaur by feats and the fact that he has wings. 
Charizard's flamethrower = Bulbasaur's razor leaf. Bulbasaur's solarbeam can arguably match Charizard's strong attacks. No one has stood up after being hit by Bulbasaur's solarbeam. Thus we do not know whose is stronger.

Obviously because Bulbasaur is going to stay at the same level the entire show right? No.

If Bulbasaur fights a pokemon around Charizard's level (and doesn't have a type advantage) then your point about inconsistency will be made. Otherwise you are blowing hot air. You cannot prove it's inconsistent. Current Bulbasaur > Bulbasaur from earlier seasons. Until that is disproven in a new fight then you cannot prove me wrong and this debate will never end. Point is...you cannot say Brandon's fight is invalid.


----------



## MrChubz (Aug 26, 2011)

You couldn't show me any feat putting Bulbasaur at Charizard's level without resorting to the Brandon fight so therefore you lose. Good day sir.


----------



## Ultra (Aug 26, 2011)

I agree completely with Chubz.

Funny how you guys seem to forget that Bulbasaur went down from Electabuzz's thunderpunch, yet Charizard (With a weakness to thunder), tanked a thunder punch and a Thunder. Then he kicked Dragonite's ass afterwards.

EDIT: Hold on, I seem to bad memory. The order of these events i off or something. Nevertheless...


----------



## Fleet Admiral Akainu (Aug 26, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> The points being, "lalala I don't hear you lalala,"
> 
> 
> Having a solid win record isn't impressive. You know what is? Matching the fire-power of a legendary. Defeating a legendary. Going toe-to-toe with Psuedo-legendaries not even in you're prime. Bulbasaur hasn't shown anything of the sort so therefore he is weaker.



Thats quite the intelligent assumption.



> So you're telling me that breaking-up fights in Oka's lab makes you as strong as going toe-to-toe with legendaries and psuedo-legendaries.



I'm trying to establish that both Bulbasaur and Charizard improved going into the Frontier saga. Which you seem to be ignoring as a possibility which is pretty much the case here.

By the way, Drake's Dragonite dealt with Charizard without much difficultly, and the 2nd time Charizard had help from a Dragonair. Thats not going toe to toe...



> How does this make Charizard defeating  of Gary's pokemon (having a type disadvantage against two of them) less impressive? More importantly, can you show me anything suggesting Bulbasaur can defeat 3 Pokemon about on his level with a type disadvantage against two?



Charizard was stomping Gary's pokemon other than Blastoise, just like Blastoise was doing before Charizard came out.

Bulbasaur has sweeped teams before actually. He did so when he was lent to Misty for a tournament to help balance her team. He almost did again at the indigo plato before some broken Bellsprout appeared.



> In the 2nd episode of DBZ Piccolo and Goku were equals. They must be equals during the Buu saga too, amirite?



You asked for consistency, and you respond with this...


----------



## Cocoa (Aug 26, 2011)

You're funny and yet still wrong. I am right whether you accept it or not. I will give you an example.

~Story mode~

I am a baker training under one of the best bakers in the world.

At the beginning I am a terrible baker. As years go by I slowly improve. After several years I am still no where near as good as my master.

I leave the country for a few years and then return.

I bake something for him and he tells me that my baking is now on par with his own now.

I leave the country again. The master baker gives a sample of my work to a critic who is familiar with me and questions my consistency. He says that years ago I was a terrible baker. He does not believe that I could have possibly reached this level. The master baker explains that it is obvious that I  practiced for the last few years. The critic wants me to prove that I am consistent, but guess what? He cannot prove I am not consistent because I am no longer there. He has no grounds to prove that I am inconsistent. So he has to assume that I can constantly bake at that level. The master baker exclaims that I am at his level and that baking something like that is no fluke. 

Conclusion. You cannot just say something is inconsistent without proper evidence. Comparing the past to the present is not very good evidence. Things change as time passes.

Here is a modified version of the story that shows what inconsistency is.

A few days/weeks/years (whichever you prefer) I return to that country. I bake for the critic and the master baker. They exclaim that my baking is no where near as good as it was the last time. The critic now have real grounds to say that I am inconsistent.

Has Bulbasaur been in a battle since his fight against Brandon? No? Okay then. He has not shown inconsistency. 

I won't bother arguing with you about this anymore. I am right and you are wrong.


----------



## Cocoa (Aug 26, 2011)

UltraDoots said:


> I agree completely with Chubz.
> 
> Funny how you guys seem to forget that Bulbasaur went down from Electabuzz's thunderpunch, yet Charizard (With a weakness to thunder), tanked a thunder punch and a Thunder. Then he kicked Dragonite's ass afterwards.
> 
> EDIT: Hold on, I seem to bad memory. The order of these events i off or something. Nevertheless...



Comparing something that happened a long time ago to the current Bulbasaur? That's hilarious.


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## Fleet Admiral Akainu (Aug 26, 2011)

UltraDoots said:


> I agree completely with Chubz.
> 
> Funny how you guys seem to forget that Bulbasaur went down from Electabuzz's thunderpunch, yet Charizard (With a weakness to thunder), tanked a thunder punch and a Thunder. Then he kicked Dragonite's ass afterwards.



Bulbasaur was less durable and at a lower level at the time. Bulbasaur still kept up just fine speed wise. Charizard had far more usage during the Orange Island arc and makes sense that he'd be stronger at that point.

...and Charizard got beat easily by Dragonite.


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## Ultra (Aug 26, 2011)

Cocoa said:


> You're funny and yet still wrong. I am right whether you accept it or not. I will give you an example.
> 
> ~Story mode~
> 
> ...



So what, are you saying that Bulbasaur staying in Oak's lab is the equivilant of Rocky training? Why didn't Ash's other pokemon power up while they were there?



Cocoa said:


> Comparing something that happened a long time ago to the current Bulbasaur? That's hilarious.



You're right, Charizard training his ass off in a valley fighting very high level versions of himself cannot possibly yield the results of bulbasaur running away from Heracross.



Fleet Admiral Akainu said:


> Bulbasaur was less durable and at a lower level at the time. Bulbasaur still kept up just fine speed wise. Charizard had far more usage during the Orange Island arc and makes sense that he'd be stronger at that point.
> 
> ...and Charizard got beat easily by Dragonite.



My memory as a kid must be impaired. Fair enough, but I don't see how Bulbasaur could have gotten THAT much stronger after that point, considering Bulba didn't get too much usage in Jhoto and Charizard has spent his time since leaving training in the valley.


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## MrChubz (Aug 26, 2011)

Fleet Admiral Akainu said:


> Thats quite the intelligent assumption.


Yup.



> I'm trying to establish that both Bulbasaur and Charizard improved going into the Frontier saga. Which you seem to be ignoring as a possibility which is pretty much the case here.


I don't have a problem with the fact that Bulbasaur is strong. However saying he's as strong as Charizard is just wrong.



> By the way, Drake's Dragonite dealt with Charizard without much difficultly, and the 2nd time Charizard had help from a Dragonair. Thats not going toe to toe...


Charizard still had great speed feats and durability feats from that fight.



> Charizard was stomping Gary's pokemon other than Blastoise, just like Blastoise was doing before Charizard came out.


You're point?



> Bulbasaur has sweeped teams before actually. He did so when he was lent to Misty for a tournament to help balance her team. He almost did again at the indigo plato before some broken Bellsprout appeared.


Anything as strong as Gary's team and with two type disadvantages?



> You asked for consistency, and you respond with this...


Tien was once Goku's equal then he made a fool out of Cell's second form. He must be as strong as Android Saga Goku.


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## MrChubz (Aug 26, 2011)

Cocoa said:


> You're funny and yet still wrong. I am right whether you accept it or not. I will give you an example.
> 
> ~Story mode~
> 
> ...



I didn't read the story. Something to do with a baker.

Baker A makes good food. A ton of people like it. He is a good baker.
Baker B makes amazing food that's world renown and is regarded as the best baker in the world by his peers.

Baker A and B are in a baking competition making pizzas. Baker B has a broken oven and the pizza he made wasn't that good. Baker A made a good pizza and won the competition. Baker B is still the better baker.


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## Cocoa (Aug 26, 2011)

MrChubz said:


> I didn't read the story. Something to do with a baker.
> 
> Baker A makes good food. A ton of people like it. He is a good baker.
> Baker B makes amazing food that's world renown and is regarded as the best baker in the world by his peers.
> ...



 Not reading my post doesn't help your case at all.

I love when people resort to ignoring something they can't argue against.

Concession accepted. Goodbye.


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## MrChubz (Aug 26, 2011)

Cocoa said:


> Not reading my post doesn't help your case at all.
> 
> I love when people resort to ignoring something they can't argue against.
> 
> Concession accepted. Goodbye.



You lost long ago and far away when you didn't and still haven't shown me anything that puts Bulbasaur at legendary level before the fight with Brandon.

In other words


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## Ultra (Aug 26, 2011)

The fact that Pikachu beat a Regice in the same battle should indicate it was complete bullshit.


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## Fleet Admiral Akainu (Aug 26, 2011)

Ok look...

Bulbasaur has for a long time been one of Ash's dependable pokemon just as much as Charizard. The fact is they both had long offscreen training that made them stronger. Had Ash always kept Charizard with him, people would call bullshit when Charizard beat Articuno or somewhat matched Entei, but instead people rightfully assume Charizard worked his tail off getting better on his own. The same can be said about Bulbasaur or Squirtle. Thats what happened plain and simple. All of Ash's pokemon do train. Cyndiquil was even ready to evolve at some point and did so infront of Ash. But with proven results Ash's 3 original starters work hardest.

I'm not even saying Bulbasaur is better than Charizard. For all we know Charizard would have done far better against Dusclops had Ash not been a retard. Seriously, Ash made every wrong move with Charizard whereas all the right ones with Bulbasaur. Charizard didn't use Overheat or Dragonrage his strongest attacks. So what if Flamethrower equals Razor Leaf. Bulbasaur can match up against lesser attacks, but obviously not the strongest ones. But with that said, its not hard to believe Bulbasaur is comparable to Charizard on an off day. Which was the case in Ash's battle with Brandon.


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## Nois (Aug 26, 2011)

Ash's Pikachu is... unique in so many ways.


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## Ultra (Aug 27, 2011)

Fleet Admiral Akainu said:


> Ok look...
> 
> Bulbasaur has for a long time been one of Ash's dependable pokemon just as much as Charizard. The fact is they both had long offscreen training that made them stronger. Had Ash always kept Charizard with him, people would call bullshit when Charizard beat Articuno or somewhat matched Entei, but instead people rightfully assume Charizard worked his tail off getting better on his own. The same can be said about Bulbasaur or Squirtle. Thats what happened plain and simple. All of Ash's pokemon do train. Cyndiquil was even ready to evolve at some point and did so infront of Ash. But with proven results Ash's 3 original starters work hardest.
> 
> I'm not even saying Bulbasaur is better than Charizard. For all we know Charizard would have done far better against Dusclops had Ash not been a retard. Seriously, Ash made every wrong move with Charizard whereas all the right ones with Bulbasaur. Charizard didn't use Overheat or Dragonrage his strongest attacks. So what if Flamethrower equals Razor Leaf. Bulbasaur can match up against lesser attacks, but obviously not the strongest ones. But with that said, its not hard to believe Bulbasaur is comparable to Charizard on an off day. Which was the case in Ash's battle with Brandon.



But clearly Bulbasaur wasn't training as hard as Charizard in their time away from Ash, can you at least agree on that? Because considering their situations it's quite obvious Charizard has a much harsher environment. Cyndaquil was already quite experienced by the end of Jhoto, so it isn't like he had to do a crapload of training to evolve.

Yes, Bulbasaur has overall good performance. But it's clear as day that he took more damage than Charizard in his fight. And that just isn't a "Good day", this is him topping the durability of a pokemon who has competed with legendaries and countlessly defeated pokemon despite having a type disadvantage.

I don't remember too much from Bulba aside from Kanto, but you said he defeated fully evolved pokemon before. Can you give me some instances?


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## Cocoa (Aug 27, 2011)

Since many obvious things went over your head... I will elaborate on some.

Bulbasaur is like many other anime characters. Like other anime characters he goes through the "time skip" phase. We have not seen him battle in a long time and now he is stronger.

Bulbasaur has not fought since his battle with Brandon and thus has shown no inconsistency.

The example with the baker had some indirect meanings.

The master baker has more variety, experience, and better main recipes.
Charizard has more attacks and can fly, more intense experiences, overheat, seismic toss, and dragonrage. (arguably better than solarbeam)

Bulbasaur's basic skills have been shown to be on par with Charizard. Such as durability (whom Bulbasaur surpasses him in) and basic attacks (razor leaf=flamethrower). Thus is why he is around the same level. Charizard's advantages do not come from his level. Charizard would murder Bulbasaur in a fight, but they are still around the same level in basic skills.

Older feats for a character who went through a timeskip are irrelevant. Inconsistency can only be proven in future fights. Unfortunately for you...he has not fought since the battle with Brandon and thus you cannot prove your bull. Bulbasaur has to get NEW feats to contradict his current ones. Old feats from a weaker version of a character cannot contradict a new version's current power.

Also, Articuno wasn't used properly and Entei wasn't a real Entei. 







I won't respond to you anymore Mr.Chubz since you are on my ignore list.


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## MrChubz (Aug 27, 2011)

I'm feeling childish. Negs for life.


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## Ultra (Aug 27, 2011)

Cocoa said:


> Since many obvious things went over your head... I will elaborate on some.
> 
> Bulbasaur is like many other anime characters. Like other anime characters he goes through the "time skip" phase. We have not seen him battle in a long time and now he is stronger.
> 
> ...



You're STILL missing the point. Yes Bulba went through a "timeskip". But so did Charizard, at around the same time. So unless you think Charizard constantly fighting against his monsterous counterparts isn't as good of a training method as Bulbasaur sitting no his ass all day and breaking up poke-fights, then his durability feats against Dusclops were inconsistant asspulls.

So your entire argument is indeed retarded, since you can't seem to grasp that the gap between Charizard and Bulbasaur's power should have infact increased from when we last saw them on Ash's team. Even if Bulbasaur TRIED to train as much as Charizard (Which he obviously didn't, most of the time we see him lounging or playing), he still doesn't have the kind of environment that would make him stronger.


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## Cocoa (Aug 28, 2011)

UltraDoots said:


> *snip*


Don't join a discussion unless you can comprehend simple concepts. I even used smalls words for you. The fact that you responded like this to my post shows you couldn't comprehend any of it. Thus making any further discussion with you pointless. Welcome to my ignore list.


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## Ultra (Aug 28, 2011)

Cocoa said:


> Don't join a discussion unless you can comprehend simple concepts. I even used smalls words for you. The fact that you responded like this to my post shows you couldn't comprehend any of it. Thus making any further discussion with you pointless. Welcome to my ignore list.



Concession accepted.


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## Soul King (Aug 28, 2011)

Pikachu, Charizard, Snorlax, Sceptile, Glalie, and Infernape.

In no specific order.


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## mhasemore (Sep 20, 2011)

Pikachu is pathetic. He just gets ass whipped by weak pokemon and asspulls strong pokemon like regice.
I wish Charizard would have kids already...
Infernape, Torterra, basically any that have evolved fully.
Goddamn it Ash you could have had a Garchomp but you left Gible behind, you fool!


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## MrChubz (Sep 20, 2011)

Ash had a fucking Gible? For fuck's sake Ash's team should be Charizard, Snorlax, Garchomp, Gengar, Venasaur and Heracross. Pikachu can suck Oak's dick in the box. Fucking Ash man.


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## Waking Dreamer (Sep 20, 2011)

Pikachu's reliability suffers because he always gets his ass handed to him by the first pokemon from the new region. 

If Ash pulled out his Charizard instead - the fire pokemon would be like, _"Get the fuck out of my way Im a level 90 Charizard. Burn, baby burn!"_


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## Fleet Admiral Akainu (Sep 20, 2011)

mhasemore said:


> Pikachu is pathetic. He just gets ass whipped by weak pokemon and asspulls strong pokemon like regice.
> I wish Charizard would have kids already...
> Infernape, Torterra, basically any that have evolved fully.
> Goddamn it Ash you could have had a Garchomp but you left Gible behind, you fool!



Torterra is pretty weak actually.

In the first 2 episodes of Pokemon, Pikachu had a lightning timing feat and blew up an entire building sized pokemon center with thunderbolt...

Never to be seen again...


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## mhasemore (Sep 20, 2011)

Fleet Admiral Akainu said:


> Torterra is pretty weak actually.
> 
> In the first 2 episodes of Pokemon, Pikachu had a lightning timing feat and blew up an entire building sized pokemon center with thunderbolt...
> 
> Never to be seen again...



Those were the days... when the Team Rocket Motto didn't suck as much. But still incredibly annoying, i wish one of the main characters would beat them up every time.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Sep 21, 2011)

Ash is a fucking retard

He had a fucking Gible and did nearly nothing with him. Did he already forget when Cynthia's Garchomp was messing bitches up?


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## mhasemore (Sep 21, 2011)

I wish i was in the anime solely to fucking thrash Ash and berate him for being such a stupid trainer.


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## Eonflare (Sep 26, 2011)

mhasemore said:


> I wish i was in the anime solely to fucking thrash Ash and berate him for being such a stupid trainer.



You've said that a lot, in more subjects than this one. You really hate him don't you?
Is it just because he got a pseudo and didn't use it properly?


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## mhasemore (Sep 27, 2011)

Yes. It is utterly stupid from people who have played pokemon before, and many people have.


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## Eonflare (Sep 29, 2011)

mhasemore said:


> Yes. It is utterly stupid from people who have played pokemon before, and many people have.



???
What's "IT"?
I don't understand what this sentence is trying to say.


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## Waking Dreamer (Sep 29, 2011)

Eonflare said:


> ???
> What's "IT"?
> I don't understand what this sentence is trying to say.



Pretty much saying Ash is stupid...


----------



## Shooting burst stream (Sep 30, 2011)

We all know Ash is a complete moron. Seriously look at the powerful Pokemon he's had that he either ignored, released or gave away.

Gible - A psuedo legendary and one of the stronger ones freaking Garchomp I mean did he seriously not see Cynthia's Garchomp solo Paul's entire team with complete and utter ease.

Haunter - Sabrina if I remember her name correctly has probably got herself a kick ass Gengar by now which Ash could've had.

Lapras - I think it only lost like once or twice, other than those it beat everything it was thrown at.

Primeape - I don't think I even need to say anything at all.

Anyway to get back on topic.
1) Charizard
2) Snorlax
3) Sceptile/Infernape
4) Bulbasaur
5) Heracross
6) Glalie


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## Sharingonsandninja (Sep 30, 2011)

Masurao said:


> The writers just don't want Ash to succeed. How else to you explain him going from Top 4 in a regional league, and being the only trainer to take out two legendaries, one of which Pikachu *TIED* with, to losing to a just out of lab Pokemon? Pikachu being the one that lost.
> 
> The writers don't give a crap about consistency when it comes to Ash, they just distort his skills to add more so called "drama" to the series.
> 
> To answer the topic though:



Lol that, and they basically rebooted the series for Black and White. I mean they freakin said he was still only ten years old in the beginning of Best Wishes.


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## Shooting burst stream (Sep 30, 2011)

Sharingonsandninja said:


> Lol that, and they basically rebooted the series for Black and White. I mean they freakin said he was still only ten years old in the beginning of Best Wishes.



 Seriously. He should be at least 14 by now
I really shouldn't be surprised at this point by the stupid things the anime does any more especially where it concerns Ash Ketchum


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## Eonflare (Oct 1, 2011)

Charizard and Snorlax are definitely at the top two.
Sceptile/Infernape/any other fully evolved starters he has are probably next
Heracross maybe next

I think that Pikachu fluctuates between the top of Ash's list and the bottom, at some points being strong enough to take on a legendary Pokemon and at other times being so weak that a the first Pokemon in the next region he goes to is too much.

Don't know about the rest


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## Shooting burst stream (Oct 3, 2011)

Eonflare said:


> Charizard and Snorlax are definitely at the top two.
> Sceptile/Infernape/*any other fully evolved starters he has* are probably next
> Heracross maybe next
> 
> ...



Just need to say something but in the anime, just because a Pokemon of Ash's is fully evolved does not mean it's impressive. Torterra and Pidgeot just to name two that lost constantly while his stage one Pokemon like Bulbasaur and Cyndaquil (Who I was considering giving the number 6 spot on my list) won far more battles and would trash the two named above with ease. His Bayleaf was however pretty good but not on the level of his high tier Pokemon.


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## Eonflare (Oct 3, 2011)

Shooting burst stream said:


> Just need to say something but in the anime, just because a Pokemon of Ash's is fully evolved does not mean it's impressive. Torterra and Pidgeot just to name two that lost constantly while his stage one Pokemon like Bulbasaur and Cyndaquil (Who I was considering giving the number 6 spot on my list) won far more battles and would trash the two named above with ease. His Bayleaf was however pretty good but not on the level of his high tier Pokemon.



I guess I see your point. But that doesn't change the fact that Charizard and Snorlax would be at the top two. Just saying.


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## Shooting burst stream (Oct 3, 2011)

Eonflare said:


> I guess I see your point. But that doesn't change the fact that Charizard and Snorlax would be at the top two. Just saying.



Never disputed that just your point about any of his fully evolved Pokemon deserving spots on the list, other than Charizard, Sceptile and Infernape his fully evolved Pokemon are either disappointing or just outright failures. By the way does anyone know if Bayleaf ever evolved into Meganium because that would give Ash yet another strong Pokemon that he ignores.


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## Scizor (Oct 3, 2011)

Sharingonsandninja said:


> I mean they freakin said he was still only ten years old in the beginning of Best Wishes.



 
That's just wrong, but understandable/funny.


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## Eonflare (Oct 3, 2011)

Shooting burst stream said:


> Never disputed that just your point about any of his fully evolved Pokemon deserving spots on the list, other than Charizard, Sceptile and Infernape his fully evolved Pokemon are either disappointing or just outright failures. By the way does anyone know if Bayleaf ever evolved into Meganium because that would give Ash yet another strong Pokemon that he ignores.



I'm pretty sure that his Bayleef never evolved any further, at least not yet. That's such a shame.


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