# Tsunade vs Itachi, Taijutsu fight



## joshhookway (Jun 2, 2013)

Location: Itachi vs Naruto and Kakashi
Distance: 20 Meters
SOM: IC
Knowledge: full
Restrictions: Katsuya, MS, Healing, Izanami, Katon

Itachi still has Sharingan


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## wooly Eullerex (Jun 2, 2013)

No healing?

Itachi snaps her neck.


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## Ersa (Jun 2, 2013)

Tsunade Shunshin blitzes Itachi despite the 1.5 speed gap, Sharingan pre-cognition, Itachi's vastly superior reflexes and his much better speed feats 

Her ground pounds will provide excellent distractions for hitting him as seen in the manga when she hit opponents on par with V1 A using this strategy 

There's no chance of Itachi winning this, he gets blitzed. Tsunade also has a enormous 0.5 advantage in Tajiutsu.


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## ueharakk (Jun 2, 2013)

Chapter 632

*Spoiler*: __ 



if her strength is anywhere near current Sakura's own, she wins.

She simply engages Itachi in CQC, and punches the ground when he's in close.  From there gets sent flying 50 meters into the air with no way to dodge and she jumps up to him and ends him.


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## FlamingRain (Jun 2, 2013)

joshhookway said:


> Knowledge: none



Tsunade stomps him. Literally. _Tsutenkyaku_ nukes everything like this here   .


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## Ersa (Jun 2, 2013)

We can't scale current Sakura's feats to Tsunade, for all we know she could be far stronger now especially if catching up to Naruto&Sasuke is going to hold even a shred of merit as

BM Naruto & EMS Sasuke >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tsunade.


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## ueharakk (Jun 2, 2013)

Rasant said:


> We can't scale current Sakura's feats to Tsunade, for all we know she could be far stronger now especially if catching up to Naruto&Sasuke is going to hold even a shred of merit as
> 
> BM Naruto & EMS Sasuke >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tsunade.



and BM NAruto & EMS Sasuke >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sakura even based on what she's shown so far.


*Spoiler*: __ 



If you want to go by hype, Hashirama implied that Tsunade's around that level of destruction that Sakura can dish.  Also, I don't see what's so inconsistent with tsunade's strength being on par with sakura's own.  For all the flashy effects sakura's punch produced, she didn't blow up the first juubispawn that she hit, heck it looked like it just took a rasengan to the gut.  Tsunade's strength is enough to kill Edo Madara by punching him on his tit, and crack susanoo's ribcage.


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## FlamingRain (Jun 2, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to go by hype, Hashirama implied that Tsunade's around that level of destruction that Sakura can dish.



There's that. . .and also the fact that Ay ~ V1 Bee up until at least his fight with Kisame, and Bee was creating city-block level shockwaves that sent people flying.

Tsunade is several times stronger than Ay, and thus that version of Bee. So she _should_ be around Sakura's level of strength.


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## Ersa (Jun 2, 2013)

Firstly she's only shown one punch, I doubt that's all she can do. By the end Sakura may very well be >>> Tsunade.

Hashirama thought it was greater, by feats its also a hell of a lot stronger then anything Tsunade has accomplished. That's a multi-block-town level punch, none of Tsunade's punches comes remotely close. Besides the speed difference is so great Itachi can see Tsunade attempting that and Shunshining away. Her strongest was either punching Madara open/ribcage Susanoo/the wall against Kabuto, nothing indicates she has Sakura's DC.

This is ending with a kunai in her brain, plain and simple.

Unless this is BD Tsunade, then yes I agree she'd blitz and unleash her city-busting punches.


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## ueharakk (Jun 2, 2013)

Rasant said:


> Firstly she's only shown one punch, I doubt that's all she can do. By the end Sakura may very well be >>> Tsunade.



*Spoiler*: __ 




*Spoiler*: __ 



sure, I'm very open to the possibility that sakura in the end of the manga, or at the end of her current powerup may very well be >>> Tsunade.  However, hashirama made that statement about that punch that I'm arguing tsunade should be able to somewhat reproduce, so it really doesn't matter what else sakura might pull out of her forhead seal.









Rasant said:


> Hashirama thought it was greater, by feats its also a hell of a lot stronger then anything Tsunade has accomplished. That's a multi-block-town level punch, none of Tsunade's punches comes remotely close.


Tsunade's never punched the ground or any giant construct in part 2.  The only thing she did punch was part of the hokage building, and she disintegrated what she made contact with.



Rasant said:


> Besides the speed difference is so great Itachi can see Tsunade attempting that and Shunshining away.


itachi can't shunshin in mid-air.


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## FlamingRain (Jun 2, 2013)

Rasant said:


> Firstly she's only shown one punch, I doubt that's all she can do. By the end Sakura may very well be >>> Tsunade.



"By the end" doesn't matter. If Tsunade can even compare to the one punch we've seen, she's going to wreck Itachi.



> Hashirama thought it was greater



Hashirama didn't know if it was greater or not.



> by feats its also a hell of a lot stronger then anything Tsunade has accomplished.That's a multi-block-town level punch, none of Tsunade's punches comes remotely close.



By feats Tsunade has erased the torso of a character who took a punch from another multi-block character without sustaining a scratch.

Said multi-block level character was _amped up_ even further and only managed to break a single rib of Susano'o while Tsunade cracked open the entire side in one strike.



> Besides the speed difference is so great Itachi can see Tsunade attempting that and Shunshining away.



Itachi has no knowledge, and thus no reason to expect the ground to explode around them.  The Sharingan does not predict shockwaves.

Skilled hand-to-hand practitioners only dodge by a small amount so that they're still in position to counter-attack immediately after avoiding damage.



> Her strongest was either punching Madara open/ribcage Susanoo/the wall against Kabuto, nothing indicates she has Sakura's DC.



She erased Madara's right side when a multi-block level character punched him and didn't put a scratch on him.

Ribcage Susano'o went flying after cracking just like that Juubi clone Sakura punched did.

The wall against Kabuto was a 20 years out of shape Tsunade.

Hype indicates she approaches Sakura's DC if she doesn't outright equal it.


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## Ersa (Jun 2, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hashirama's statement is wrong if Sakura proves to be a good deal stronger then Tsunade. We can't scale this feat to her unless we know more and based on current feats Tsunade has not come remotely close to replicating this. If she could, when she punched the Susanoo clone into ground, why didn't it even make a crater or fissure the ground?

Itachi can Shunshin out of the way from her initial attack. Tactical fighters like Itachi and Minato are going to run if they see someone yelling out and about to punch the ground. I think you underestimate how smart these two are when it comes to in-battle smarts.

Also I'm sure Itachi can get ample distance away, Minato Shunshined across half of Konoha iirc and I'm sure Itachi can replicate 1/10th of that feat.


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## Bonly (Jun 2, 2013)

Full knowledge. No healing. Genjutsu is allowed. Lol.

Itachi wins


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## Trojan (Jun 2, 2013)

Itachi has 4,5 in taijutsu
Tsunade has 5

Tsunade stomps him, I would be surprised if he survive her 1 finger hit.

for what Hashi said, he said MIGHT. Also, he does not know anything about Tsunade
since what 40 years? or even more!


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## wooly Eullerex (Jun 2, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> I would be surprised if he survive her 1 finger hit.



well the human body is 72% liquid & the fingertip is less than 1% of the body surface area, soooo.... the finger hit would actually leave a 'bullet hole'', clean thru his body. totally survivable...

a punch would be waaaay more effective in 1-shotting


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## Godaime Tsunade (Jun 2, 2013)

I'm unsure if this match is straight taijutsu, or if Itachi can still use clones, genjutsu  and suiton? Given the restrictions Tsunade would surely lose if that were the case.

Though if its a straight taijutsu brawl Tsunade trumps no doubt. He can't hurt her, while she only needs to tap him to inflict big damage. With full knowledge Itachi will surely aim for the head, but Tsunade can block his kunai slashes. Her smashy smashy tactics may eventually force him into the air, at which stage he's royally fucked.​​


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## DaVizWiz (Jun 2, 2013)

Tsunade creates notably large fissures with chakra releases in a single finger. That's fucking ridiculous. 

Itachi isn't exactly known for his physical strength, even though in his zombie form he traded shots with KCM Naruto.

The chance that he avoids being touched by a finger is so horribly low that this really shouldn't even be a debate. He'll have to continue throwing kunai to keep his distance, because utilizing a kunai in close range only results in a shattered knife, shattered form arm, and a second shot in the mid section. Splat goes the Uchiha. 

If we're assuming all variants of Ninjutsu and Genjutsu are restricted, along with ninja weapons, then this is a bad day for Itachi.


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## Ersa (Jun 2, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> Itachi has 4,5 in taijutsu
> Tsunade has 5
> 
> Tsunade stomps him, I would be surprised if he survive her 1 finger hit.
> ...


By that logic, Tsunade can never hit Itachi because there's a 1.5 speed difference


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## DaVizWiz (Jun 2, 2013)

Rasant said:


> By that logic, Tsunade can never hit Itachi because there's a 1.5 speed difference


But but...

She already explodededed Madara 

By that logic, she can virtually blitz anyone in the verse.

#FuckingPointlessDatabook


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## Ersa (Jun 2, 2013)

Rock Lee blitzed Madara.

Tsunade is Rock Lee level


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## DaVizWiz (Jun 2, 2013)

Rasant said:


> Rock Lee blitzed Madara.
> 
> Tsunade is Rock Lee level


KM Gated Lee, who happened to leap 5 meters in front of the other 45,000 KM ninja blitzing behind. 

Madara was also attached and controlling a world destroyer. 

Stop abusing the King to make your point


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## Stermor (Jun 2, 2013)

in striaght up taijutsu there are very few who could beat tsunade.. she has shown the reactions to be able to hit what she needs to(backed up by her skill).. and nobody is surviving her hits straight up..


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## Kai (Jun 2, 2013)

Highly imbalanced thread.

Itachi doesn't possess taijutsu that can even sweat Tsunade's physical resistance and tenacity.

If Tsunade grips any of Itachi's limbs, it's over. She literally has more muscle than he does.


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## Turrin (Jun 2, 2013)

Is Itachi given weapons or does he just have to go hand to hand with Tsunade. If it's the latter he certainly looses. If it's the former than it would be close battle, but I lean towards Itachi.


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## tanman (Jun 2, 2013)

Knowledge was changed to full, so Itachi's knows about her strength. 
The opposite side of the coin is that Tsunade knows all about genjutsu. 
Having to avoid it, though, lowers her combat abilities significantly.  

Itachi wins more than not.


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## Mithos (Jun 2, 2013)

In a taijutsu fight, Tsunade wins handily - even if Itachi is allowed weapons. 

Tsunade has more skill than he does. And even if he is faster and has Sharingan precognition, Tsunade has demonstrated against Madara that her speed and reaction time are quite good. She can keep up with him just fine. 

Anytime Itachi makes contact of any kind with her, he is at risk of her immediate counter-attack. Tsunade has shown that she can take a blow and strike back before her opponent can move, due to momentum [1]. Itachi's speed and Sharingan will not help him avoid her counter-attack because he will not physically be able to move yet.

Then there's the fact Itachi has to worry about the fissures her strikes cause. If he stays on the ground, he will be thrown off balance and he'll be open. If he decides to jump, he will be in mid-air, which severely reduces his ability to defend himself - he cannot evade in mid-air, and he cannot block her attacks. And as Hashirama implied, Tsunade's strength is at least near what current Sakura's punches can do. Her fissure caused dozens of Juubi clones to be launched high into the air. If that happens to Itachi, it's over for him. 

Tsunade is also capable of moving fast enough to strike Orochimaru while he was watching her after she was sliced up by the Kusanagi and had her muscles cut. Any damage Itachi inflicts on her with a kunai is not going to be enough to slow her down. 

There is no way for Itachi to win here. Itachi fans are kidding themselves if they think he's a match for the Godaime Hokage in taijutsu.


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## Axiom (Jun 2, 2013)

Judging by these restrictions, Tsunade is restricted to pure taijutsu while Itachi still has weapon spam, Suiton ninjutsu, Karasu Bunshins, and Genjutsu.  And Itachi gets full knowledge.

Stomp and a half in Itachi's favor :|


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## Rocky (Jun 2, 2013)

Tsunade's like a Naruto version of the Hulk. Not the fastest, but strong, resilient, and regenerative. Itachi's faster and has pre-cog, but that's about it. 

Tsunade is far too underrated here because of her apparent lack of speed. Unless a character specializes in and develops a style around speed, it's most likely not going to decide the battle, especially when the speedster in physically inferior in every other way. The Hulk can beat guys like Gohan, and Gohan's speed advantage there is pretty severe. 

If Itachi is given a weapon, his chances increase, but unless he lands a headshot, she would run through the small knife and rip him apart. She's too much of a beast to be halted by a Kunai slice from Itachi.


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## joshhookway (Jun 2, 2013)

Itachi gets kunai, taijutsu includes his basic weapons.


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## KenpachiDiachoxx (Jun 3, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Tsunade's like a Naruto version of the Hulk. Not the fastest, but strong, resilient, and regenerative. Itachi's faster and has pre-cog, but that's about it.
> 
> Tsunade is far too underrated here because of her apparent lack of speed. Unless a character specializes in and develops a style around speed, it's most likely not going to decide the battle, especially when the speedster in physically inferior in every other way. The Hulk can beat guys like Gohan, and Gohan's speed advantage there is pretty severe.
> 
> If Itachi is given a weapon, his chances increase, but unless he lands a headshot, she would run through the small knife and rip him apart. She's too much of a beast to be halted by a Kunai slice from Itachi.




You can't underestimate Tsunade in any Tajitsu battle. But how do you beat somebody you can't catch? Best 3 methods are

1.Analyze movements and patterns then counter or Pre-Emptive strike.
2.Tank a hit and hold on to your opponent 
3. A battle of stamina. Outlast your opponent then take advantage of their dulling movements.

Itachi is faster than Tsunade I think considerably seeing how he blitz Kakashi in part 1, Kakashi pretty much equals Kabuto in part 1. So superior speed and Sharingan means tactic 1 fails and Itachi counter attacks a few times w/o injury.

Tactic 3, Depends It may be a Tie is weapons are involved. Itachi can repeatedly deal mortal blows until he's tired and Tsunade's chakra is low. However with this I still see Genius IQ Itachi work his way from slashes,Stabbing/Gutting, limb dismemberment, to Beheading Tsunade...And Yes a Kunai in the right hands can do all I mentioned.

Tactic 2 is Tsunade's way to win honestly if this fight is w/o knowledge. She'll realize she can't Itachi's sly ass and tank a serious attack to catch him off guard. 

Other than that Itachi only takes this with a Kunai. He'll avoid Tsunade's punches and grabs. After he lands a few blows and cuts, he'll test out her regenerative power as I mentioned before becoming more and more viciou with his attacks. Itachi's smart so his whole game is don't get hit which is easy for a ninja of his level.

I say Itachi wins 7/10 times. Tsunade vs Kakashi or Sasuke pure Tajitsu fight. Itachi's is to much better a ninja than Tsunade.


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## ueharakk (Jun 3, 2013)

KenpachiDiachoxx said:


> You can't underestimate Tsunade in any Tajitsu battle. But how do you beat somebody you can't catch? Best 3 methods are
> 
> 1.Analyze movements and patterns then counter or Pre-Emptive strike.
> 2.Tank a hit and hold on to your opponent
> 3. A battle of stamina. Outlast your opponent then take advantage of their dulling movements.



you forgot option 4: punch the ground and send him flying into the air where he can't dodge.


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## Bonly (Jun 3, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> you forgot option 4: punch the ground and send him *flying into the air where he can't dodge.*



Why can't one dodge? If one has shadow clones then can't they used them the same way Naruto has to help dodge an attacker?


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## Language of Life (Jun 3, 2013)

Weapons, and suiton ninjutsu mean nothing to a Tsunade who took three Kusunagi slashes and got back up or the Tsunade that fought 5 susanoo clones with 2 susanoo blades in her gut. Even in Itachi's hands. Not to mention she is good enough in Taijutsu and reaction speed, maybe not to dodge everyone, but to avoid fatal blows which are difficult to land on Tsunade because of her tenacity. Not to mention getting close for Itachi is suicide because of 1 hit kill and ranshinsho (not sure if spelled correctly) 

Genjutsu however, is a deciding factor. This gives Itachi the proper opening to land a fatal blow (or several) and defeat Godaim.


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## GKY (Jun 3, 2013)

Tsunade can't heal and Itachi gets genjutsu? Lol, Itachi wins by unfairness. Give Tsunade healing and restrict genjutsj, then the 5th murders him.


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## ueharakk (Jun 3, 2013)

Bonly said:


> Why can't one dodge? If one has shadow clones then can't they used them the same way Naruto has to help dodge an attacker?



I thought this match was taijutsu only?  If he can use bunshins then sure, he can dodge.


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## KenpachiDiachoxx (Jun 3, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> you forgot option 4: punch the ground and send him flying into the air where he can't dodge.



I didn't forget its just He can see her punching the ground before she actually does. Even if he goes airborne, his Sharingan and skill as a ninja will allow him to evade fatal injury from Tsunade.


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## ueharakk (Jun 3, 2013)

KenpachiDiachoxx said:


> I didn't forget its just He can see her punching the ground before she actually does.


doesn't matter if he can see it, if he's fighting her in CQC and he's anywhere within 30-40 meters of her when she connects, he's getting sent into the sky.



KenpachiDiachoxx said:


> Even if he goes airborne, his Sharingan and skill as a ninja will allow him to evade fatal injury from Tsunade.


how exactly?  he can't move his center of mass while in the air (assuming ninjutsu restricted).  If she was coming at him with a single strike like Ei or Sandaime came at naruto and sasuke, then sure I think he could dodge it, but if she tries to grab him and then punch him, or do taijutsu exchanges, he's going to end up dead or with broken limbs.


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## Mithos (Jun 3, 2013)

KenpachiDiachoxx said:


> I didn't forget its just He can see her punching the ground before she actually does. Even if he goes airborne, his Sharingan and skill as a ninja will allow him to evade fatal injury from Tsunade.



How? He can't maneuver in mid-air. His only option would be to block, which won't work here.


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## Csdabest (Jun 3, 2013)

People need to realize how the super strong punches work. You have to build up the chakra in your fist and release it the instant you strike the target. Creating the super strong punch.

Sound genjutsu works in open locations.

If Tsunade can't land the punch to release the chakra then her super strength is rendered useless.

Itachi would whore her in a fight


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## Mithos (Jun 3, 2013)

Csdabest said:


> People need to realize how the super strong punches work. You have to build up the chakra in your fist and release it the instant you strike the target. Creating the super strong punch.
> 
> Sound genjutsu works in open locations.
> 
> ...



Tsunade has insane raw strength as well though. Shown by her lifting Gamabunta's tanto, which can't be done by the "release chakra" method. And she has a  5 in the DB under strength, which doesn't include chakra. 

And Tsunade can land an attack on Itachi if he's restricted to using taijutsu/weapons. He stands no chance with these restrictions.


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## Eliyua23 (Jun 3, 2013)

W/o weapons Itachi loses pretty badly here, he can't do anything to harm her yet she could knock his head into outerspace.


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## Doge (Jun 3, 2013)

Eliyua23 said:


> W/o weapons Itachi loses pretty badly here, he can't do anything to harm her yet she could knock his head into outerspace.



I'm pretty sure OP said that Itachi gets weapons in the second page.  If he does, it really depends if he can hit her eyes and then follow up with a strong move that would put her down indefinitely.

Bunshin feints would also be VERY useful to Itachi.


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## KenpachiDiachoxx (Jun 3, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> doesn't matter if he can see it, if he's fighting her in CQC and he's anywhere within 30-40 meters of her when she connects, he's getting sent into the sky.
> 
> 
> how exactly?  he can't move his center of mass while in the air (assuming ninjutsu restricted).  If she was coming at him with a single strike like Ei or Sandaime came at naruto and sasuke, then sure I think he could dodge it, but if she tries to grab him and then punch him, or do taijutsu exchanges, he's going to end up dead or with broken limbs.



Only Tsunade's heel drop has shown crazy collateral damage. And I believe Kabuto and Oro easily dodged Tsunade's monstrous punches until she was tired.

Ninja with Sharingan ex.Sasuke , Itachi have shown to control their center of gravity...Sasuke dodging KB and Itachi during his shrunken training.

If she grabs him most likely clothing he can still grab her back and maunever.

F the data book for a second. Itachi is pure ninja Hokage candidate and Anbu kid assassin vs Hulk Med ninja......,His tajitsu,speed and Sharingan allows him to cut her head off about 8mins+ into the fight.




Matto-sama said:


> How? He can't maneuver in mid-air. His only option would be to block, which won't work here.



You forgot about Itachi's uncanny shuriken practice.
Or Sasuke flipping over KB's Liarat


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## Language of Life (Jun 3, 2013)

Csdabest said:


> People need to realize how the super strong punches work. You have to build up the chakra in your fist and release it the instant you strike the target. Creating the super strong punch.
> 
> 2
> 
> ...



She has plenty of raw physical strength to back up those monstrous punches/kicks. She did not use chakra when lifting the giant tanto hundreds of feet in the air, that was all muscle. Itachi is faster and has better reflexes, but Tsunade literally trounces him in Taijutsu just based on her physicality and tenacity alone. Her reflexes are good enough and the moment she does get him, he is finished. 



KenpachiDiachoxx said:


> Only Tsunade's heel drop has shown crazy collateral damage. And I believe Kabuto and Oro easily dodged Tsunade's monstrous punches until she was tired.
> 
> Ninja with Sharingan ex.Sasuke , Itachi have shown to control their center of gravity...Sasuke dodging KB and Itachi during his shrunken training.
> 
> ...



I dont really agree with your conclusion, but i can respect your opinion. However, the moment she has her hand on anything of Itachis, Uchiha boy wonder is dead. Her pure physical strength, regardless of her chakra use, is far greater than Itachi's, he can try and maneuver all he wants, he is not escaping her clutch. Not to mention, regardless of her relatively slow movement speed, her striking speed is no slower than Itachi's. She is just far to dangerous in CQC for Itachi to handle if he gets grabbed.


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## Mithos (Jun 4, 2013)

kresh said:


> I'm pretty sure OP said that Itachi gets weapons in the second page.  If he does, *it really depends if he can hit her eyes* and then follow up with a strong move that would put her down indefinitely.
> 
> Bunshin feints would also be VERY useful to Itachi.



Not happenin'. Tsunade has great reflexes and is extremely skilled in evasion and CQC. She can at least avoid a shot to the head, never mind the eyes. 



KenpachiDiachoxx said:


> Only Tsunade's heel drop has shown crazy collateral damage. And I believe Kabuto and Oro easily dodged Tsunade's monstrous punches until she was tired.



That was a rusty Tsunade who was 20+ years out of practice. Judging from her performance against Madara and how she was able to heal the village when Pain invaded, Itachi is not outlasting her. 

And in the latest chapter, Hashirama compared Sakura's new feat of power to Tsunade's strength. Itachi is not avoiding more than two or 3 of those. The size is just too much. 



KenpachiDiachoxx said:


> Ninja with Sharingan ex.Sasuke , Itachi have shown to control their center of gravity...Sasuke dodging KB and Itachi during his shrunken training.



Rotating or doing a flip in mid-air is not going to let him avoid Tsunade. 



KenpachiDiachoxx said:


> If she grabs him most likely clothing he can still grab her back and maunever.



Maneuver where? Once she grabs him, she will not let go. And nothing he does to her will make her. He's dead if she grabs him. She could lift him with one arm and slam him face first onto the ground so hard it cracks his skull. He would be a ragdoll. 



KenpachiDiachoxx said:


> F the data book for a second. Itachi is pure ninja Hokage candidate and Anbu kid assassin vs Hulk Med ninja......,His tajitsu,speed and Sharingan allows him to cut her head off about 8mins+ into the fight.



Except her skill in taijutsu exceeds his. And she has the reflexes and skill in shunshin to keep up with his speed. He's not cutting of her head before she can punch out his chest.


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## Rocky (Jun 4, 2013)

Do we all remember what happened when Kratos got a hold of Hermes?


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## Doge (Jun 4, 2013)

Matto-sama said:


> Not happenin'. Tsunade has great reflexes and is extremely skilled in evasion and CQC. She can at least avoid a shot to the head, never mind the eyes.



That's why I said it depends, because Itachi is so gimped here.


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## KenpachiDiachoxx (Jun 4, 2013)

That was a rusty Tsunade who was 20+ years out of practice. Judging from her performance against Madara and how she was able to heal the village when Pain invaded, Itachi is not outlasting her. 

And in the latest chapter, Hashirama compared Sakura's new feat of power to Tsunade's strength. Itachi is not avoiding more than two or 3 of those. The size is just too much. 



Rotating or doing a flip in mid-air is not going to let him avoid Tsunade. 

Maneuver where? Once she grabs him, she will not let go. And nothing he does to her will make her. He's dead if she grabs him. She could lift him with one arm and slam him face first onto the ground so hard it cracks his skull. He would be a ragdoll. 



Except her skill in taijutsu exceeds his. And she has the reflexes and skill in shunshin to keep up with his speed. He's not cutting of her head before she can punch out his chest.[/QUOTE]

First of its kinda evident Sakura is stronger than Tsunade.
Sakura stupid crazy punch held more impact due to her jumping then coming down.
Tsunade at most has created empty craters in part and her heel drop wasn't even close to Sakura's feat.

I be honest If Tsunade grabs Itachi is pretty much over. But he can still slice her hand off.
I honestly don't care aboutt the datebook here. Itachi is better than all of the Sannin and can fodder them. In straight tajitsu he still cuts this Bisch head off.

Tsunade won't land any hits on him. He's faster plus Sharingan! 
She misses Itachi attacks. This sums up the fight. He's too smart not to hack her head off after dealing out. Punishment that doesn't kill her.


I


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## trance (Jun 4, 2013)

Taijutsu fight? Tsunade rapes Itachi...


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## Baroxio (Jun 4, 2013)

I honestly don't see how you can simultaneously say that Tsunade is superior to Itachi in taijutsu yet can keep up with him in speed. 

Either we look at the Databook where Itachi's 1.5 advantage in speed vastly outweighs Tsunade's 0.5 advantage in taijutsu ability, or we look at manga feats where Itachi not only tangles with people who are faster than Tsunade, but with people who have outright better taijutsu than her, like Killer Bee.

In terms of both speed, reactions, and pure taijutsu ability, Killer Bee completely dominates Tsunade, and we saw ow Itachi in turn matched and in some cases outpaced him.

Not only is Itachi better in the Databook, his feats are far and away better than hers.

Furthermore, consider the fact that Tsunade won't have regeneration to fall back on, and must therefore change up her style of fighting as opposed to Itachi, who can fight as normal.

This doesn't even take into account basic genjutsu gg or any of Itachi's other ninjutsu. I wonder how Tsunade would deal with Katon: Hosenka Tsubameni without regeneration to fall back on.


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## Mithos (Jun 4, 2013)

Baroxio said:


> I honestly don't see how you can simultaneously say that Tsunade is superior to Itachi in taijutsu yet can keep up with him in speed.
> 
> Either we look at the Databook where Itachi's 1.5 advantage in speed vastly outweighs Tsunade's 0.5 advantage in taijutsu ability, or we look at manga feats where Itachi not only tangles with people who are faster than Tsunade, but with people who have outright better taijutsu than her, like Killer Bee.



Comparing speed stats and taijutsu stats are completely different. 

The speed stat is just base movement speed. It doesn't include reaction speed/reflexes or shunshin ability, which is a ninjutsu - and something Tsunade is well versed in. Itachi's base movement speed is far greater than Tsunade's, but she has shown the reaction speed and shunshin ability to react and defend herself against Itachi in CQC. 



Baroxio said:


> In terms of both speed, reactions, and pure taijutsu ability, Killer Bee completely dominates Tsunade, and we saw ow Itachi in turn matched and in some cases outpaced him.



Killer Bee only fought Itachi with Samehada IIRC - not his 7 swords. And Itachi used genjutsu and ninjutsu, which he can't here since it's a "taijutsu battle." 

Bee with Samahada as he "fought" Itachi would not dominate Tsunade in CQC at all. He would need to far more than that to avoid being one-shotted.



Baroxio said:


> Not only is Itachi better in the Databook, his feats are far and away better than hers.



He has better speed and reactions, but less strength, durability and taijutsu skill than her. And since this is a taijutsu battle and she has shown the reaction speed to keep up, he doesn't have that much to fall back on. 



Baroxio said:


> Furthermore, consider the fact that Tsunade won't have regeneration to fall back on, and must therefore change up her style of fighting as opposed to Itachi, who can fight as normal.
> 
> This doesn't even take into account basic genjutsu gg or any of Itachi's other ninjutsu. I wonder how Tsunade would deal with Katon: Hosenka Tsubameni without regeneration to fall back on.



This is a "taijutsu battle" - he cannot use genjutsu or ninjutsu. He is only allowed his weapons. 

Tsunade doesn't have to change her style that much. She has shown she can take a hit and counter-attack before her opponent can move (due to momentum) and she has shown she can fight effectively even when heavily wounded without regenerating: blitzing Orochimaru from the ground when he was watching her, despite having sustained severe wounds from his Kusanagi.  Itachi's Sharingan won't help him avoid her counter-attack, since he won't be able to physically move. And a kunai slice or stab isn't doing much to Tsunade, healing or not. 

Then Itachi has to also worry about the destruction of her strikes. Sakura's latest strength feat was compared to Tsunade's - that it "might" be stronger. This means Tsunade can create a comparable fissure, a fissure that sent dozens of Juubi clones sprawling in the sky. In CQC, Itachi is going to have a hard time avoiding that kind of destruction; and if he does, doing it again will be harder each consecutive time since avoiding it will force him into unfavorable positions. Once he's launched into the air or knocked off balance, it's over for him.

If Itachi just focused on running from Tsunade, she would struggle immensely to hit him. But since he needs to get close to her to do any damage, he is at high risk of taking a hit.


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## FlamingRain (Jun 4, 2013)

I don't seem to remember Itachi doing anything except running from Bee before throwing flaming Shuriken at him. . .running from Samehada's wide strikes and Bee spinning around like a top does not take literal skill like actually engaging him does.

Naruto didn't display any crazy taijutsu "skill" either. At best it's just a reaction feat for Itachi and not any new testament to his taijutsu maneuvers, and even then, Naruto's _movement_ speed is hyped, not his striking speed.


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## Baroxio (Jun 4, 2013)

I'm sure that if we were to compare shunshin feats that Itachi would still come out ahead, particularly his shunshin feat against Killer Bee and KCM Naruto, simultanously moving backwards while dodging their strikes, managing to end up 10 meters behind them * before they can even recover from their own missed attacks*. 

Itachi is on the higher echelons of speed regardless of whether we are talking about  Base speed or Shunshin speed.

Furthermore, "keeping up with" Itachi's speed isn't even half of the battle with him. I don't know what is or isn't included in the Databook scores, but if Shunshin isn't included in the speed score, then Sharingan is also not likely considered in the taijutsu ability score.

In the battle between VOTE Sasuke and Naruto, Naruto completely outsped Sasuke to the point of a stomp, yet when Sasuke matured his Sharingan he completely turned it around despite having much less speed than his attacker.

Tsunade is far superior to KN0 Naruto sure, but not only is Itachi also far superior to VOTE Base Sasuke, but he's legitimately much faster than Tsunade is.

There are basically 2 ways to outdo Sharingan prediction with taijutsu:

1.) Outspeed it like Lee (impossible since Itachi is far faster than Tsunade) OR

2.) Attack unpredictably like Killer Bee (impossible since Tsunade's attacks are much more linear and slow than Killer Bee's, whose attacks Itachi was able to dodge/parry without problem)

Add to the fact that Itachi is the smarter ninja and quite frankly it's going to be downright impossible for Tsunade to hit him. Mind you, Itachi has almost never been legitimately hit by taijutsu attacks in the manga, so this conclusion is supported by the manga.

And just like in the manga, Sharingan allowed Sasuke to not only dodge the far faster KN0 Naruto attacks, but counterattack without taking damage. If Itachi has to venture into her range to kill her, he can do so without getting hit because this is literally what the Sharingan allows him to do. It's the entire reason why Sharingan was needed before Chidori became a safe jutsu to use.

The entire argument seems to be that Tsunade punches the ground and Itachi can't do shit. What's worse, it's based upon a faulty translating of Sakura's feat to Tsunade in the very chapter where Kishimoto was attempting to say that Sakura had surpassed Tsunade.

But even if we ignore the fact that the feat is Sakura's and not transmutable to Tsunade, we've already seen the damage of Tsunade's strongest attack, Tsutenkyaku, which the slower, less reactive, worse at taijutsu, Orochimaru and Kabuto pair managed to dodge entirely. It's completely illogical to say that the far faster and far more reactive Itachi can't replicate such a feat.


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## Rocky (Jun 4, 2013)

Baroxio, who would win in a fight: Tyson or Bolt?


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## FlamingRain (Jun 4, 2013)

Baroxio said:


> 2.) Attack unpredictably like Killer Bee (impossible since Tsunade's attacks are much more linear and slow than Killer Bee's, whose attacks Itachi was able to dodge/parry without problem)
> 
> The entire argument seems to be that Tsunade punches the ground and Itachi can't do shit. What's worse, it's based upon a faulty translating of Sakura's feat to Tsunade in the very chapter where Kishimoto was attempting to say that Sakura had surpassed Tsunade.
> 
> But even if we ignore the fact that the feat is Sakura's and not transmutable to Tsunade, we've already seen the damage of Tsunade's strongest attack, Tsutenkyaku, which the slower, less reactive, worse at taijutsu, Orochimaru and Kabuto pair managed to dodge entirely. It's completely illogical to say that the far faster and far more reactive Itachi can't replicate such a feat.



I don't think the Sharingan can "predict" a shockwave.

Tsunade does not have to be dead even with Sakura to produce a shockwave _comparable_ to hers, and one _comparable_ is all she needs.

Kishi is hinting Sakura surpassing Tsunade, yes. But he's done something with this particular physical strength comparison that he hasn't done before- he threw in the word "might", and in every translation I have seen.

That word means that whatever difference exists, if a difference exists, is a marginal one- and if Tsunade's shockwave is anything like Sakura's was- which it should be, then no, Itachi won't be able to do shit.

The only Tsutenkyaku we've seen was from a 20 years rusty (and thus far less formidable physically) Tsunade who hadn't even been relying on chakra enhancement (otherwise Kabuto would have still gotten his head blown off when she blindsided him regardless of her muscles being cut or not).

Kishimoto himself had stated in an interview that he watered down Tsunade in order to save her true power for later, and this much is obvious even without his admission because Part 1 Tsunade's Tsutenkyaku was trumped by V1 Bee's shockwave.

V1 Bee at least until the Kisame fight ~ Ay, and Tsunade is several times stronger than Ay based on both Ay's punch dealing zero damage to Madara while hers erased his torso, and the fact that Ay needed to be amped up even further by Onoki in order to even break one rib of Susano'o whereas Tsuande was able to crack an entire side of it in a single, standard, strike.

So, were Part 2 Tsunade to ever use Tsutenkyaku and hit the ground- we'd have already known that it would close in on what Sakura performed this chapter.

Jumping into the air would not suffice in avoiding such a massive attack, as even Juubi clones that had already been knocked into the air got caught up in the destruction.


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## ueharakk (Jun 4, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Do we all remember what happened when Kratos got a hold of Hermes?



How about when the Hulk got a hold of Loki?


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## Rocky (Jun 4, 2013)

More of the same..

Strength >>>>>> Speed in any hand to hand fight. Unless you can literally leave your opponent's field of vision (which is Raikage shit), then speed isn't going to win you the battle.

Literally, I would love to see someone like little Bruce Lee try and fight guys like Frazier, or Velasquez. Sure, he can run from them all day, but when he tries to actually stand and fight, the weight (strength) difference would ensure he dies. 

I thought anyone who's ever seen the Hulk do anything would realize how good sheer strength can be.


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## LostSelf (Jun 4, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Baroxio, who would win in a fight: Tyson or Bolt?



Not saying who wins here (Itachi or Tsunade) but not an accurate comparison since Bolt is not skilled in fighting (or hasn't trained for that), doesn't have the same insight and inteligence and probably is slower when it comes to fighting (Only better running away).

Itachi is faster, skilled, more reflexive by a mile, smarter by two miles, has more legitimate feats and his evasion is not only assumption, etc.

Kratos vs Hermes is a better comparison. However, Kratos is Kratos. He revives himself .


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## Bonly (Jun 4, 2013)

Rocky said:


> More of the same..
> 
> Strength >>>>>> Speed in any hand to hand fight. Unless you can literally leave your opponent's field of vision (which is Raikage shit), then speed isn't going to win you the battle.
> 
> ...



Ever hear of "The Flash"


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## FlamingRain (Jun 4, 2013)

TheIronMan said:


> Kratos vs Hermes is a better comparison. However, Kratos is Kratos. He revives himself .



Edo Itachi is not allowed here, TheIronMan. 

@ Bonly, only the Yellow Flash may be used for that comparison. He is not in this thread.


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## Rocky (Jun 4, 2013)

TheIronMan said:


> Not saying who wins here (Itachi or Tsunade) but not an accurate comparison since Bolt is not skilled in fighting (or hasn't trained for that), doesn't have the same insight and inteligence and probably is slower when it comes to fighting (Only better running away).




It was mainly to counter-act the speed > all arguments. Bolt can be replaced by any skilled but light fighter...like Lee and such.



> Itachi is faster, skilled, more reflexive by a mile, smarter by two miles, has more legitimate feats and his evasion is not only assumption, etc.




Those are very minor advantages. Itachi is more reflexive, but he can't parry & counter-attack her blows, as she would blast through his guard and paste him. He can use that speed to evade and run, but then he accomplishes nothing. Sooner or later, he has to come close....and then the aforementioned situation occurs.

Itachi's intelligence isn't going to help him here either. They aren't that far apart, and I'm not seeing how it's even an important category in a deathmatch with 1 option -- hand to hand.



> Kratos vs Hermes is a better comparison. However, Kratos is Kratos. He revives himself .




> Solo's entire fucking Greek Pantheon

> Easily restrained by the lead Furie multiple times.

God of War 2013


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## LostSelf (Jun 4, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> Edo Itachi is not allowed here, TheIronMan.
> 
> @ Bonly, only the Yellow Flash may be used for that comparison. He is not in this thread.



Yeah. But in his examples, Kratos would be Tsunade and Hermes Itachi. Hermes was too fast for Kratos to touch him, However, Kratos's blades had chaines that allowed him to reach almost twice his size and catch Hermes.

With a CqC weapon he probably would've never catched the God.

Anyway, Kratos is too epic to be Tsunade. He returns from hell, searches for the time guardians, kills them and rewinds the time just to kill the God that killed him .



Rocky said:


> It was mainly to counter-act the speed > all arguments. Bolt can be replaced by any skilled but light fighter...like Lee and such.



Bruce Lee? I think Bruce Lee would beat Tyson since martial arts shows you how to beat heavier oponents. But yeah i get the point.




> Those are very minor advantages. Itachi is more reflexive, but he can't parry & counter-attack her blows, as she would blast through his guard and paste him. He can use that speed to evade and run, but then he accomplishes nothing. Sooner or later, he has to come close....and then the aforementioned situation occurs.



In my eyes what fucks Itachi here most is her durability more than her punch since Itachi can hit her and dodge, of course, until he's caught by exahustion or any other reason like managing to get a hold in him with her 5 in taijutsu. But only with 1 diference in taijutsu and a bigger advantage in speed and reflexes, being Itachi skilled in taijutsu as well would make up for it. But of course, fucked by her durability.



> Itachi's intelligence isn't going to help him here either. They aren't that far apart, and I'm not seeing how it's even an important category in a deathmatch with 1 option -- hand to hand.



I agree-




> > Solo's entire fucking Greek Pantheon
> 
> > Easily restrained by the lead Furie multiple times.
> 
> God of War 2013



I just need this as soon as possible.


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## FlamingRain (Jun 4, 2013)

TheIronMan said:


> Yeah. But in his examples, Kratos would be Tsunade and Hermes Itachi. Hermes was too fast for Kratos to touch him, However, Kratos's blades had chaines that allowed him to reach almost twice his size and catch Hermes.



Tsunade has shockwaves that reach more than twice her size to catch Itachi, at least.


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## Bonly (Jun 4, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> @ Bonly, only the Yellow Flash may be used for that comparison. He is not in this thread.



The yellow flash is fast enough to be in every thread at the same time, he's just too fast for you to notice him in this thread


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## FlamingRain (Jun 4, 2013)

Bonly said:


> The yellow flash is fast enough to be in every thread at the same time, he's just too fast for you to notice him in this thread



Sonuva-

Minato, why!?


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## Rocky (Jun 4, 2013)

Bonly said:


> Ever hear of "The Flash"




He can leave his opponents field of vision.

And still, Wally uses light-speed travel to punch with infinite mass. He gives himself the biggest strength advantage possible.


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## LostSelf (Jun 4, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> Tsunade has shockwaves that reach more than twice her size to catch Itachi, at least.



I wonder why she's not affected if she's in the middle of that crater .


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## FlamingRain (Jun 4, 2013)

TheIronMan said:


> I wonder why she's not affected if she's in the middle of that crater .



She has secret Senju gravity ninjutsu. 

Well. . . . . . . .idk. I guess the same reason why Gai doesn't burn his hands off with Asakujaku. 

(And the answer can't be because its his chakra, because those flames come purely from friction.)


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## Rocky (Jun 4, 2013)

TheIronMan said:


> Bruce Lee? I think Bruce Lee would beat Tyson since martial arts shows you how to beat heavier oponents. But yeah i get the point.




Tyson is a legendary champion fighter. Not some big punk off the street. Little 120 pound Lee isn't beating up 230 pounds of iron death. There's a reason that pro fighting has weight classes.

This is technically a debate for another time, but it's pretty much agreed upon by any actual fighter that Lee looses badly.




> In my eyes what fucks Itachi here most is her durability more than her punch since Itachi can hit her and dodge, of course




That's the thing -- No he can't. He can dodge her all day of he runs. However, relying *completely on evasion* (remember, Itachi _cannot_ block) while at the same time trying to hit your opponent is not going to be effective. Especially considering Tsunade is a Taijutsu master. 





> I just need this as soon as possible.




It's good, don't worry.


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## Bonly (Jun 4, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> Sonuva-
> 
> Minato, why!?



Its Lord Itachi's fault, he's fault, due to be the stronger of the two, Itachi takes advantage of Minato 



Rocky said:


> He can leave his opponents field of vision.
> 
> And still, Wally uses light-speed travel to punch with infinite mass. He gives himself the biggest strength advantage possible.



Holy shit he can do that? Lol I thought he could only speed up his atoms(or something like them) to the point where he can walk through solid objects and make them explode. Its now confirmed, Itachi>>>>>>The Flash>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Everyone else .


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## Rocky (Jun 4, 2013)

Izanami solo's the Marvel Verse.


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## LostSelf (Jun 4, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> She has secret Senju gravity ninjutsu.
> 
> Well. . . . . . . .idk. I guess the same reason why Gai doesn't burn his hands off with Asakujaku.
> 
> (And the answer can't be because its his chakra, because those flames come purely from friction.)



Well, Gai's arms burns when he uses them. But i guess that moving his arms that fast would cause more pain than the fire (Don't mind me) or feeling the huge pain of his bones breaking would make the fire feel like nothing.



Rocky said:


> Tyson is a legendary champion fighter. Not some big punk off the street. Little 120 pound Lee isn't beating up 230 pounds of iron death. There's a reason that pro fighting has weight classes.
> 
> This is technically a debate for another time, but it's pretty much agreed upon by any actual fighter that Lee looses badly.




I didn't know that this was debated that much.




> That's the thing -- No he can't. He can dodge her all day of he runs. However, relying *completely on evasion* (remember, Itachi _cannot_ block) while at the same time trying to hit your opponent is not going to be effective. Especially considering Tsunade is a Taijutsu master.



Yeah, but this is why i say her durability is what fucks him. His hits would not cause significant pain as to make her flinch (or stop her attack a second) at least a bit. If he hits her she will still continue her punch. If Itachi fight Sakura for example, it doesn't matter if she has Tsunade's taijutsu skills, her durability would fuck her since Itachi will hit her first and she will surely feel it and would give Itachi the opening for another attack faster than her. And Sakura would end up outclassed.





> It's good, don't worry.



I still remenber how Kratos sacrificed that Poseidon's daughter (Was Poseidon's?) just to hold a switch.


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## Jad (Jun 4, 2013)

Man look at how even it is. Man, NF can't make up there mind.


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## Mithos (Jun 4, 2013)

Jad said:


> Man look at how even it is. Man, NF can't make up there mind.



That's because whenever Itachi is involved, all logic goes out the window


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## LostSelf (Jun 5, 2013)

Jad said:


> Man look at how even it is. Man, NF can't make up there mind.



If Kishi writtes an Itachi vs Tsunade fight in taijutsu...

I bet Itachi would win. His sharingan would be so advanced that he will notice the weak point in her punches and will counter attack and block her hits also finding a minuscule weak spot in her body, hitting her there and beating her .

This is fucking Itachi we're talking about.


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