# Gaara vs Neji



## Taijukage (May 14, 2013)

time frame: sasuke rescue arc
distance: 10m
knowledge: they know basic things about one another (byakugan, sand)

scenario 2: 
time frame: chunin exams


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## Shadow050 (May 16, 2013)

*General outlook on this match - considering the most recently seen versions*


*Spoiler*: __ 



Neji can avoid gaara's sand and the byakugan allows him to avoid falling for Gaara's tricky misdirection tactics. in addition, if neji if caught in some sand he can get loose by using full body blow, of flowing his chakra through the sand to destroy it or attack gaara through the sand if it's connected to him (rather, making contact with him).

Neji can also see which sand gaara has taken control of, as he obviously controls the sand with his chakra... and therefore any sand that is or is going to be controlled by gaara will have gaara's chakra coursing through it.

if/when neji closes the distance between them it's over.. not only does he have the movement speed to attacks faster than the sand has ben shown to defend in CQC, but the speed at which he strikes is far greater. he also has shown that juuken strikes can pack a ridiculously strong punch, as he did 64 palms with enough force to knock kidoumaru through a thick ass tree. so attacking through sand defenses is definitely a feasible task for him.

people like to act like gaara would just fly on his sand-nimbus (lol) and attack neji from there, but that's not even how gaara really fights lol... and it wouldn't necessarily work. a battle like that simply become a battle of attrition.

I wonder how gaara would fair against kuushou as well... the general concensus is that he lost his auto-sand defenses... so i wonder how he'd deal with kuushou (at least the first time it's used against him - which would easily lead to him losing if neji follows up quickly... which he logically would against such an opponent).

all and all, i think they're quite close.

for gaara, the objective is to either just overwhelm neji with sand or to get him with a battle of attirtion... he certainly has large chakra reserves... but at the same time, it's debatable if the attrition win is possible because Neji is aware of their stamina differences and uses a less stamina-costly style. Gaara using AOE attacks obviously leads to him using up a bunch more chakra than he should to deal with one person, but he's forced to because if he doesn't neji can avoid all his sand attacks without using much chakra at all (just relying on his speed)


.

*Actual BD match*
Scenario 1
the above applies, aside from the parts about Kuushou and the auto-defense.

and with only 10m separating them and Neji having knowledge of Gaara's Sand while Gaara has knowledge of Neji Byakugan... I think this works out for Neji better than it does Gaara. Gaara doesn't know that Neji possess speed that is _actually equal to Lee's unweighted speed_, and 10 meters is very easy for Neji to close in a blitz, and he knows what's required to get past the auto-defense... Gaara still doesn't have an answer for such speed opponents at this point in time, especially while not having prep time. 

the attrition win is much more possible for gaara as he still has his bijuu.

*i think Neji has a slight-enough advantage to win more often than not*

Scenario 2
I'm assuming they have the same knowledge as in the previous scenario... correct me if this is wrong.

with such conditions, I think Neji wins this one more easily. the ease depends on if this is prelim-fights chunnin exams, or the actual tourney... but either way, the Gaara of this period was WAAAY less cautious and "thrown off" if he faced an opponent who might be able to get by his defenses, which Neji can do. I think this leads to Gaara being flustered and defeated.

*Neji has a bigger advantage in this scenario, than in the first one*


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## city (May 16, 2013)

Current characters, Gaara rapes scenario one.  Neji is simply not as powerful as Gaara and there's been nothing shown that indicates he could penetrate Gaara's defenses.  He ability with the sand was so strong that his father though the Shukaku had been unleashed.  Neji has show nothing to say he can fight someone on tailed beast levels.

Scenario two, Gaara wins again.  Lee had to open, I think, five Gates in order to be fast enough to even hit Gaara.  Neji was definitely not that fast.  And this is a blood thirsty Gaara who could also unleash Shukaku when he wanted to.  Neji has no chance here.


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## Shadow050 (May 16, 2013)

city said:


> Current characters, Gaara rapes scenario one.  Neji is simply not as powerful as Gaara and there's been nothing shown that indicates he could penetrate Gaara's defenses.  He ability with the sand was so strong that his father though the Shukaku had been unleashed.  Neji has show nothing to say he can fight someone on tailed beast levels.
> 
> Scenario two, Gaara wins again.  Lee had to open, I think, five Gates in order to be fast enough to even hit Gaara.  Neji was definitely not that fast.  And this is a blood thirsty Gaara who could also unleash Shukaku when he wanted to.  Neji has no chance here.



this BD battle isn't about current characters so it's safe to assume you're responding to me.

common sense and knowledge ratings tells us full well that could penetrate gaara's defenses, and ALWAYS has been able to. juuken can destroy the very chakra infused sand that is used by gaara, not to mention, it can CONDUCT a juuken attack to gaara. he also hasn't been shown to be unable to fight such characters... let's not resort to simply *argument from ignorance* (a logical fallacy) shenanigans. 

neji can obviously attack gaara, unless you believe his striking speed is actually slower than Lee's movement speed... which is it is not. Neji can employ the very same tactics of adding chakra to his legs to mimic Lee's speed in the very same way Sasuke did. this is the very same gaara who was flustered as hell by lee and who didn't even think of going to shukaku... the very same gaara who can indeed be defeated before arriving at that conclusion. and why someone would be so desperate as to completely sidestep the actual gaara vs neji confrontation that they resort to talking about bijuu so much is beyond me. the moment Gaara needs to unleash shukaku in order to prevent a loss, we know who was actually stronger -despite the fact that the stronger might not be the most POWERFUL.


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## Kazekage94 (May 16, 2013)

Gaara wins. He takes to through air lol. Swallows up Neji then it's over


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## tanman (May 16, 2013)

It seems he and I were both confused as to what the OP meant by "time frame."
I think we both thought he was trying to describe the location. Therefore, we assumed that he was talking about the current versions of the characters.


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## Shadow050 (May 16, 2013)

tanman said:


> Current Gaara has reacted to Amaterasu, V2 A's drop kick, and Madara's Susanoo attacks. He has also duped Nidaime Mizukage. The Neji that you're describing was completely outclassed by the speed of every jonin present at the chunnin exam. Since then, his only speed feat has been reacting to the Juubi's spikes, something the other important chunin there were able to do.



what? how can you talk about part 2 gaara - who was OBSERVING the ongoings and reacting which is much easier to having to deal with them being directed at you... to Neji from PART 1 during the prelims  - who was much slower than his part 2 self... who's speed was 4.5 just like Lee, kakashi, and sasuke... who are noted to be fast?

doesn't matter if he duped someone who _doesn't have a byakugan which will prevent such things - given neji's own intelligence_.

everything we KNOW >>> feats... 

you don't know how many other chunin were protected/saved fromt he juubi's attacks so that statement is hasty. neji's PART 1 speed was more than enough. people love to fail to acknowledge that his speed grew EQUAL to Lee's speed - WHICH IS UNWEIGHTED. people ignore how a badly injured neji, low on chakra, ran faster enough to intercept a falling kidoumaru was was MUCH FURTHER than a mere 50 meters away when he shot the arrows at neji. 50 meters is SENSING range... not vision range... yet kidoumaru was so far away that Neji couldn't simply see him when he was shooting arrows. no one ever wants to think this hard on NF lol....

therefore his speed feat there, while slower, provides more than enough to make the common sense deduction that he's more than fast enough to attack gaara via movement speed... and we already know his striking speed is still pretty much unparalleled. 

and to be honest, who knows if the nature of *gentle* fist doesn't make it easier to hit gaara with?


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## Shadow050 (May 16, 2013)

Kazekage94 said:


> Gaara wins. He takes to through air lol. Swallows up Neji then it's over



 because that's how gaara fights... and neji has no ways to deal with the sand... even though he can see all around him, is also very fast, and has options to deal with the sand that others do not. very good analysis.



tanman said:


> It seems he and I were both confused as to what the OP meant by "time frame."
> I think we both thought he was trying to describe the location. Therefore, we assumed that he was talking about the current versions of the characters.



i see... but even the most recent versions isn't so easy to call when you go with everything you know instead of JUST feats - which is a retarded way of going about any kind of comparison/debate... especially when we already know one character wasn't shown nearly as much as another character. that sets the stage for the most idiotic arguments from ignorance ever... make an argument if the "lack of evidence" is taken to be, itself, evidence... i sincerely mean this - _especially in Neji's case, ironically_.


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## Kazekage94 (May 16, 2013)

Shadow050 said:


> what? how can you talk about part 2 gaara - who was OBSERVING the ongoings and reacting which is much easier to having to deal with them being directed at you... to Neji from PART 1 during the prelims  - who was much slower than his part 2 self... who's speed was 4.5 just like Lee, kakashi, and sasuke... who are noted to be fast?
> 
> doesn't matter if he duped someone who _doesn't have a byakugan which will prevent such things - given neji's own intelligence_.
> 
> ...




Neji loses. Gaara was able to capture Lee AT his speed not to mention lee tired himself out. Lee would have died if it wasn't for guy. If Neji has lees speed Gaara knows better and can crush him. Plus if Neji does enough damage to make Gaara go even part Shukaku then Neji gets thrashed.


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## Shadow050 (May 16, 2013)

Kazekage94 said:


> Neji loses. Gaara was able to capture Lee AT his speed not to mention lee tired himself out. Lee would have died if it wasn't for guy. If Neji has lees speed Gaara knows better and can crush him. Plus if Neji does enough damage to make Gaara go even part Shukaku then Neji gets thrashed.



no he couldn't capture Lee... not until he was incapacitated from using the gates... something he ONLY did in order to inflict more damage (not for speed).

Lee doesn't possess eyes that allow him to see AND SENSE all movement around him in a 50 meter radius - nor does he have ninjutsu which enables abilities like shushin...

if gaara has chakra flow disabled, he loses before he can envoke shukaku... let's not forget that naruto got to accesss kyuubi becuase of the plot induced storytelling (which provided time for a degree of recover from 64 points) and it took a great deal of effort/determination/willpower (the likes of which gaara was not shown to possess) to access his bijuu after his chakra was sealed up.

things are as i said them to be.


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## Bonly (May 16, 2013)

I would say it depends on Gaara's sand armor vs Jūken.

Gaara's sand armor is a thin layer of sand covering Gaara which protects him from attacks. So if Neji hit with Jūken then would the sand armor protect him from some of the damage or not. If Jūken can get through Gaara's sand armor and have his chakra system down(along with hurting Gaara) then Neji might be able to win. If Jūken can't get through the sand armor then Neji's not going to win, Neji can put up a fight for a while but he will run out of chakra first and will and he will lose.


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## Shadow050 (May 16, 2013)

Bonly said:


> I would say it depends on Gaara's sand armor vs Jūken.
> 
> Gaara's sand armor is a thin layer of sand covering Gaara which protects him from attacks. So if Neji hit with Jūken then would the sand armor protect him from some of the damage or not. If Jūken can get through Gaara's sand armor and have his chakra system down(along with hurting Gaara) then Neji might be able to win. If Jūken can't get through the sand armor then Neji's not going to win, Neji can put up a fight for a while but he will run out of chakra first and will and he will lose.



juuken gets or goes through the sand armor without question.

it's a substance created from chakra, and neji can obviously see it to know it's there in the first place, and thus attack appropriately from the start. 

Neji will not necessarily wear down faster... as shown with him fighting naruto, who had even more stamina than gaara.

his style, or the merits of it, make it so that chakra usually isn't a huge deal. on the other hand, gaara NEEDS to use chakra costly jutsus in order to have any chance of actually catching neji... his AOE style jusu are his only HOPE of catching neji... and catching neji isn't enough as neji can obviously free himself from sand attacks... either destroying the sand, or blowing it off him in a full body blow kind of way.

people tend to forget that neji's skill set changes almost everything in how or if a person can deal with him.


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## egressmadara (May 16, 2013)

Gaara stomps both.


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## Bonly (May 16, 2013)

Shadow050 said:


> juuken gets or goes through the sand armor without question.
> 
> it's a substance created from chakra, and neji can obviously see it to know it's there in the first place, and thus attack appropriately from the start.



Im not sure if it will.



> Neji will not necessarily wear down faster... as shown with him fighting naruto, who had even more stamina than gaara.



Neji will wear down first if Neji can't shut down Gaara's chakra system.



> his style, or the merits of it, make it so that chakra usually isn't a huge deal. on the other hand, gaara NEEDS to use chakra costly jutsus in order to have any chance of actually catching neji... his AOE style jusu are his only HOPE of catching neji... and catching neji isn't enough as neji can obviously free himself from sand attacks... either destroying the sand, or blowing it off him in a full body blow kind of way.
> 
> people tend to forget that neji's skill set changes almost everything in how or if a person can deal with him.



And what do you think happens to Neji as he blows away the sand? He waste chakra and as we have seen Gaara can flood Neji in sand and constant catch Neji and force him to waste more chakra. Neji isn't outlasting a Jin.


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## Kazekage94 (May 16, 2013)

Shadow050 said:


> juuken gets or goes through the sand armor without question.
> 
> it's a substance created from chakra, and neji can obviously see it to know it's there in the first place, and thus attack appropriately from the start.
> 
> ...



You must really love neji lol. He still loses no matter how you put it


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## city (May 17, 2013)

Yeah, I definitely read that first scenario wrong.  

Sasuke rescue, Neji still loses.  Neji can see all around him sure, but when the ground itself randomly grabs you, there's not enough time to react to that.  Neji's movement speed hasn't shown quick enough to dodge an attack from a terrain he's standing on.  If Sand Tsunami is used, it's instantly over.  Please don't tell me he kaitens all of it either.

Neji has never been on Gaara's level


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## Shadow050 (May 17, 2013)

*I guess include links for reference or something. Not a problem...*



Kazekage94 said:


> You must really love neji lol. He still loses no matter how you put it



what i really love is logical and rational arguments that are supported by what we know... 

the popular doubt of Neji here is pretty ridiculous considering that Gaara was nearly beaten by Lee, and just barely survived twice - while each moment that can easily be considered PnJ, mind you. 

but somehow, neji, can't get past his defenses.

Sasuke can get around Gaara's sand... but Neji - who's shown much better evasive ability, who possesses and eye that will prevent him from being caught how others have been, can't get past these defenses. 

 brilliant.



Bonly said:


> Im not sure if it will.



It will. the explanation provided in the manga is completely consistent with this.



Bonly said:


> Neji will wear down first if Neji can't shut down Gaara's chakra system.



Neji MAY wear down faster... he SHOULD.... but if Neji isn't expending much or any chakra to avoid the sand, why the hell would he wear down before gaara? gaara is constantly using sand, and therefore using and losing chakra. neji's pretty efficient with his chakra usage in battle... he's of the most chakra efficient characters in the series.



Bonly said:


> And what do you think happens to Neji as he blows away the sand? He waste chakra and as we have seen Gaara can flood Neji in sand and constant catch Neji and force him to waste more chakra. Neji isn't outlasting a Jin.



*1) Catching Neji is a problem*

*Spoiler*: __ 



Neji must first be caught in the sand before he'll be blowing it away - and there lies a problem from the start. Neji is fast enough to avoid the sand attacks, and can SEE if Gaara is creating more sand - unlike his previous opponent(s):
 this scan right here
 this scan right here
_-it also obviously takes a lil time to grind the minerals into sand... why do you think Neji will give him this time while he SEES what Gaara is doing?_ 

when he blows away the sand it costs him chakra obviously, but not so much that doing this in the rare instance that he's caught will tire him out. After getting the sand off of him he obviously moves... and he's _shown_ how quickly he can move afterward if he chooses to.

he's obviously not going to just stand there and easily allow himself to get caught again... and the entire time he's going to be trying to get closer to gaara, and very well may do so... as he has the speed to do so. 





*2) Neji's gifts make him different from others*

*Spoiler*: __ 



*Kimimaro* possessed the speed and ability to close in on Gaara _but simply didn't_... and then ended up on the defensive because Gaara was attacking him with sand *AND more importantly, because he didn't know about Gaara's abilities nor could he see that Gaara was making more sand THE ENTIRE TIME.*
_shown_ how quickly he can move afterward if he chooses to.
_shown_ how quickly he can move afterward if he chooses to.
_shown_ how quickly he can move afterward if he chooses to.
_shown_ how quickly he can move afterward if he chooses to.
those scans prove what i'm saying:
before he could try to close in on Gaara, Gaara put him on the defensive and because he didn't know about Gaara's auto defenses he tried attacking with his fingertip-bullets as he dodged. he dodges the sand WITH EASE - as Lee notes how his movements aren't even being slowed down... _and this is despite him trying to figure Gaara out at the same._ The same thing would not be happening to Neji who can see what Gaara is doing, and also already possesses basic knowledge about Gaara and his abilities.

the only reason Ryusua Bakuryuu (aka desert avalanche)
is possible is because Gaara has already created the sand beforehand. He obviously did this while Kimimaro was busy dodging his sand attacks, and recovering from being crushed and such...

Now, Kimimari is 0.5 faster than Neji, but Kimimaro doesn't have a byakugan that'll make dodging the sand easier (even though Neji doesn't logically NEED the byakugan to avoid the sand considering Lee and Sasuke were ableto do the same thing and they don't have a byakugan). so long as you're skilled and have the speed, you can avoid the sand. Neji has the skill and speed... and also has the byakugan to make getting around the sand easier. and remember, this means he can NOT ONLY see all of the sand, _but sense it_.




*3) The AOE you have in mind won't necessarily work*

*Spoiler*: __ 



Gaara using such massive AOE attacks quickly drains him of his chakra. and the AOE is just that... the sand used for that attack isn't constantly tying to capture the target. it's covering the landscape... 
Ryusua Bakuryuu (aka desert avalanche)
Ryusua Bakuryuu (aka desert avalanche)
notice how the sand isn't specifically targeting kimimaro it. Swallowed him up as he was completely unprepared for it AND STILL RECOVERING from being crushed.

For some reason you think appear to Neji can't avoid that sand wave...even though it's very much like this little number:
Ryusua Bakuryuu (aka desert avalanche)
Ryusua Bakuryuu (aka desert avalanche)
_-no one on Team Gai, including Tenten (who's speed is a 3.5), was submerged by this tidal wave which chanegd the landscape even more than gaara's sand wave... so why is it that Neji (speed 4, and has a byakugan) can't avoid being swallowed up by the sand wave?_




*4) Chakra issues*

*Spoiler*: __ 



blowing away things off him with his chakra isn't hard for neji nor very chakra-taxing apparently. we've never seen Neji suffer from simply overusing his chakra. the three times we've seen him tired were due to:
1) damage
2) damage
3) eye strain

Neji also keeps an eye on both his own, and the enemy's chakra levels...

Neji  can last because his very conscious and efficient in his chakra usage.

this is why even though he has way less chakra than gaara, he can still fight and last with him - because the AOEs are very chakra costly, while Neji doesn't have to use any chakra to avoid them. he ONLY needs to use chakra in the rare instance he's grabbed by sand, or if he needs to move _even faster_ for a quick movement (a la shushin or "chakra to the legs").

Naruto has nearly endless chakra... before neji whips out kaiten and 64 points... that battle is headed toward naruto just wasting his chakra, and neji being perfectly fine. it's the same kind of idea here. in order for neji to end up tired like you said, Gaara will need to use _tons of chakra_ in order to try to make Neji use up any of his chakra (aside the inconsequential amount he uses for the byakugan). the premise is the same here. 




*5) Conclusion*

*Spoiler*: __ 



 As I said - Neji is the likely victor in BOTH scenarios (_especially #2_ where Gaara was way less careful, and easily flustered by a person who could move quickly). Either Gaara is overestimated by y'all, or Neji's being underestimated (like he always is around here) or y'all are misunderstanding a bunch of things...


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## Bonly (May 17, 2013)

Shadow050 said:


> It will. the explanation provided in the manga is completely consistent with this.



We was given a character statements on this. Do you believe Neji can destroy any and everything made from chakra?



> Neji MAY wear down faster... he SHOULD.... but if Neji isn't expending much or any chakra to avoid the sand, why the hell would he wear down before gaara? gaara is constantly using sand, and therefore using and losing chakra. neji's pretty efficient with his chakra usage in battle... he's of the most chakra efficient characters in the series.



Because he will constantly be using rotation and full body blow to get the sand off of him once Gaara floods the area.



> *1) Catching Neji is a problem*
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



Alot of stuff here with nothing important that changes anything. Once Gaara floods the place it becomes easier for Neji to catch him, write all you want but thats a fact.




> *2) Neji's gifts make him different from others*
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



Same as above, alot of stuff but nothing important here that changes anything. Neji can see the sand all he wants, doesn't help avoid the sand when he has an avalanche of it flooding the place.



> *3) The AOE you have in mind won't necessarily work*
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



When you show a feat from SRA Neji that suggest he can avoid all the sand when Kimi couldn't then we can talk.



> *4) Chakra issues*
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



You seem to think that Gaara will constantly use large AoE jutsu, the only large AoE jutsu Gaara will need is to flood the place. We see with the fight against Kimi, that when Kimi popped out of the sand, Gaara was quickly able to warp up his body. Neji will constantly be attacked by such a small scale move and he'll need to constantly waste chakra.

[





> B]5) Conclusion[/B]
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



Not at all, I missed the part where you mentioned how Neji can deal with a full Bijuu if Gaara brings it out.


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## Shadow050 (May 17, 2013)

y'know... at first I was going to address your post in the previous one... but the sheer inanity that last sentence earned you, you're own personal post and dismantling.



city said:


> Yeah, I definitely read that first scenario wrong.



your entire post is wrong.



city said:


> Sasuke rescue, Neji still loses.



Neji's most likely wins BOTH scenarios.



city said:


> Neji can see all around him sure, but when the ground itself randomly grabs you, there's not enough time to react to that.



you think neji can see all around him, but wouldn't see the ground? wtf? The byakugan allows him to see underground as well. Gaara needs to use his sand for him to take control of. they are 10 meter apart... in that range neji WILL SENSE/DETECT the _movement_ of the sand digging into the earth, and will see it. 
anime makes this perfectly clear.
anime makes this perfectly clear.
anime makes this perfectly clear.
_-where was shouten-kisame at again?_

it doesn't work like that... there's NOTHING random about it, and it can be avoided - OTHERWISE why the hell would Gaara need to DISTRACT enemies in order to ensnare them? he does this in part 1 
anime makes this perfectly clear.
anime makes this perfectly clear.

and even in part 2 WHILE ON A DESERT!
anime makes this perfectly clear.
anime makes this perfectly clear.

please explain why Gaara DISTRACTS kimimaro in order to grab his feet with with the sand. *This tactic will NOT work on Neji*. Then also include why neji wouldn't immediately free himself and move... 



city said:


> Neji's movement speed hasn't shown quick enough to dodge an attack from a terrain he's standing on.



*what we KNOW >>> what we SEE*

Neji DOES have the speed and quickness... it doesn't matter that it "wasn't shown" in your opinion. We KNOW he possess the speed. Lee's part 1 speed is a 4 of 5.... by the time of the chunin exams or at least the SRA (it's been debated as to exactly when the stat increase took place), Neji's speed is a 4 of 5. Lee was able to EASILY avoid Gaara's sand WITHOUT the use of an eye that SEES _*AND SENSES*_ everything going on around him. 

Neji's not fighting on a desert so you're claim about the terrain is off base. but even though can be avoided too. As I said, Gaara distracts people first, in order to get them from below... his actions contradict the logic of your claims. 

Neji can indeed avoid the sand attacks... including the *Ryuusa Bakuryuu*, like I explained previously. Tenten's speed is a 3.5 and she avoided a tidal wave from shouten kisame... Neji's speed at this point is a 4, and Gaara's sand wave IS SMALLER than Kisame's tidal wave. 

_especially_ when you consider that Gaara has to use chakra to in order to control the sand... do you really think Neji fails to notice the place he's in is covered in the enemy's chakra? do you really think just does nothing? do you think he stands there, instead of moving, or neutralizing the enemy's chakra? 



city said:


> If Sand Tsunami is used, it's instantly over.  Please don't tell me he kaitens all of it either.



not true, as prove above and in the previous post and the previous section of this post.

*In the end, this doesn't even matter that much because Gaara WILL NOT LOGICALLY be afford the time he needs in order to turn the landscape into a miniature desert.* 



city said:


> Neji has never been on Gaara's level





*Never been on Gaara's level?* 
ok, you must just be trying to piss me off or something... because this is just a dumb claim. Neji was ABOVE Gaara in part 1, and part 2 can be debated as well. But the issue at hand in part 1... 

​
Sasuke was beating Gaara's ass in the exam... the very same sasuke would have gotten rapestomped by Neji at that point in the manga... yet you'd make such a claim.
anime makes this perfectly clear.
anime makes this perfectly clear.
that is sasuke while NOT adding chakra to his legs in order to increase his speed. this is either is either SLOWER _OR EQUAL_ to Neji in speed. if that is Neji attacking gaara with his hit, the match could be over.

so wtf are you talking about?

Sasuke is able to EASILY maneuver around Gaara's sand and do damage to Gaara... Sasuke is doing this to Gaara while being inferior to Neji in EVERY SINGLE SIGNFICANT WAY _at this point in the manga_, yet you'd dare make the claim you did.
anime makes this perfectly clear.
anime makes this perfectly clear.

when sasuke adds chakra to his legs and matches Lee's UNWEIGHTED speed... a speed that Neji has BY DEFAULT after the stat increased during part 1... 
Link removed
Link removed
Link removed
not only does he move around and pass the sand with relative ease, he gets in and unleashes a flurry/combo on Gaara. he is GRABBED and pummeled some more... the fight is OVER if we replace Sasuke with Neji here... and it would NOT have tired Neji out like it did to sasuke because Neji possess this speed _NATURALLY_.

SMFH... you guys are not think these claims through.


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## Shadow050 (May 17, 2013)

Bonly said:


> We was given a character statements on this. Do you believe Neji can destroy any and everything made from chakra?



"anything" no. 
Gaara's sand and such? obviously.



Bonly said:


> Because he will constantly be using rotation and full body blow to get the sand off of him once Gaara floods the area.



no he won't. he doesn't need to use it in order to avoid the sand - and doesn't need to do so if the are is flooded.

i just LOVE how you completely ignored the part where I pointed out that Gaara wouldn't even be afforded the time to flood the area in the first place.



Bonly said:


> Alot of stuff here with nothing important that changes anything. Once Gaara floods the place it becomes easier for Neji to catch him, write all you want but thats a fact.



lies. everything mentioned there is important. again, he will not be flooding anything. they're 10 meters apart - why the hell would Neji allow him to do this?

and IF the are was to get flooded, it still wouldn't work how you say. we see, even in part 2, that Gaara distracts opponents before even wasing his time trying to just grab them - this is because things aren't how you imagine them to be. does it get easier to catch someone while they're on sand? OF COURSE... but does that lower difficulty mean you can now catch them easily? NO, NOT NECESSARILY. especially not when they can see ALL the sand that's actually being controlled.



Bonly said:


> Same as above, alot of stuff but nothing important here that changes anything. Neji can see the sand all he wants, doesn't help avoid the sand when he has an avalanche of it flooding the place.



perhaps if you took the time to actually read and comprehend everything, you might notice the comparison with TIDAL WAVE tossed at he and his team, that was avoided in the same sense of what we're talking about with the sand wave... and futhermore, the sand wave is smaller. if TENTEN who is slower than him can avoid that tidal wave, you're crazy to think he can't avoid the sand wave.



Bonly said:


> When you show a feat from SRA Neji that suggest he can avoid all the sand when Kimi couldn't then we can talk.



i've already supported my claims. _do you think_ that part 2 tenten is better equipped to avoid shouten kisame's tidal wave, than Neji is to avoid the sand wave?

let me remind you yet again

*Spoiler*: __ 




rank:
tenten - chunin
neji - genin

rank of opponent in question:
Shouten kisame - clone S-class Criminal and Jounin. possess bijuu chakras
Gaara - Genin. jinchuuriki

speed:
tenten - 3.5
neji - 4

extras:
tenten - none
neji - byakugan (360 vision, sensing within a radius, and more)




*neji can avoid that sand wave - despite the fact that it will not get to be used.*



Bonly said:


> You seem to think that Gaara will constantly use large AoE jutsu, the only large AoE jutsu Gaara will need is to flood the place. We see with the fight against Kimi, that when Kimi popped out of the sand, Gaara was quickly able to warp up his body. Neji will constantly be attacked by such a small scale move and he'll need to constantly waste chakra.



kimimaro didn't "pop" out of the sand... he was SLOWLY making his way out of it with pure physical strength, and slowly picked up speed. the method of freeing oneself from the sand is COMPLETELY different.

a small scale move will be as useless against Neji as it was one Lee, Sasuke, and Kimimaro.

again, HOW does gaara get this sand wave off in the first place?



Bonly said:


> Not at all, I missed the part where you mentioned how Neji can deal with a full Bijuu if Gaara brings it out.



i missed the part where he's apt to do that... because y'know, SRA Gaara wasn't resorting to his Bijuu.

And Chunin exam Gaara is beaten before he tries to resort to his bijuu form. review the post made to the poster named *City*. Gaara was flustere the very moment he saw speed similar to Lee's... and was being torn apart before Sasuke himself got tired, and Gaara went into a sand ball... a sand wall which Juuken can destroy/break... so Gaara doesn't get the prep time. Gaara can even have his chakra system shut down via 64 points... which will leave Gaara vulnerable long enough for neji to be the victor. 

the OP sure as hell wasn't thinking about Gaara fighting in a Bijuu mode when he made this thread either... when the OP makes this about gaara going to his shukaku mode, then that'll be worried about.

smh, seriously, how shameless does one need to be to go this route?

people around here saying anything they can to try to make themselves right, instead of trying to find the most logical/sensible answer though debate/discussion/argumentation/etc.... seriously people... wtf.


----------



## Kazekage94 (May 17, 2013)

Shadow050 said:


> what i really love is logical and rational arguments that are supported by what we know...
> 
> the popular doubt of Neji here is pretty ridiculous considering that Gaara was nearly beaten by Lee, and just barely survived twice - while each moment that can easily be considered PnJ, mind you.
> 
> ...



Tell me something, How is Neji going to catch Gaara while he is 30 feet or higher in the air. Also at the same time, Neji is not Sasuke nor Lee at all. There is no comparison. Lee was beating Gaara's ass(hate to say it) but he was. At the same time Lee WOULD HAVE DIED. If Gaara instantly ascends how will Neji get him, and plus Gaara can still do damage in the air. Neji would have to dodge his sand, while Gaara can make more STILL IN THE Air. Then Neji gets tired and Gaara can catch him. NOW WHAT? Gaara's intelligents level increases higher than Neji's.


----------



## Bonly (May 18, 2013)

Shadow050 said:


> "anything" no.
> Gaara's sand and such? obviously.



Why is that? 





> no he won't. he doesn't need to use it in order to avoid the sand - and doesn't need to do so if the are is flooded.
> 
> i just LOVE how you completely ignored the part where I pointed out that Gaara wouldn't even be afforded the time to flood the area in the first place.



Yeah he would.

When did you do such?



> lies. everything mentioned there is important. again, he will not be flooding anything. they're 10 meters apart - why the hell would Neji allow him to do this?



Not at all. 
>Neji is fast
>Neji can see sand being made
>Neji won't stand around

That was your point in a nutshell and nothing here is important because you've said it before which didn't prove he could.



> and IF the are was to get flooded, it still wouldn't work how you say. we see, even in part 2, that Gaara distracts opponents before even wasing his time trying to just grab them - this is because things aren't how you imagine them to be. does it get easier to catch someone while they're on sand? OF COURSE... but does that lower difficulty mean you can now catch them easily? NO, NOT NECESSARILY. especially not when they can see ALL the sand that's actually being controlled.



And yet we have seen 



> perhaps if you took the time to actually read and comprehend everything, you might notice the comparison with TIDAL WAVE tossed at he and his team, that was avoided in the same sense of what we're talking about with the sand wave... and futhermore, the sand wave is smaller. if TENTEN who is slower than him can avoid that tidal wave, you're crazy to think he can't avoid the sand wave.
> 
> i've already supported my claims. _do you think_ that part 2 tenten is better equipped to avoid shouten kisame's tidal wave, than Neji is to avoid the sand wave?
> 
> ...



So no feat of Neji having the speed to do such during the SRA and before. Thanks.




> kimimaro didn't "pop" out of the sand... he was SLOWLY making his way out of it with pure physical strength, and slowly picked up speed. the method of freeing oneself from the sand is COMPLETELY different.
> 
> a small scale move will be as useless against Neji as it was one Lee, Sasuke, and Kimimaro.



Doesn't matter if it will be useless, it will force Neji to use chakra.



> again, HOW does gaara get this sand wave off in the first place?



FIrst Gaara grinds up sand then he he sends off a huge wave. Not hard to figure out.



> i missed the part where he's apt to do that... because y'know, SRA Gaara wasn't resorting to his Bijuu.



Because he magically lost the ability to go into Bijuu mode right?



> snip



Don't care about Chunnin exam arc Gaara match up as im only talking about the first scenario.



> the OP sure as hell wasn't thinking about Gaara fighting in a Bijuu mode when he made this thread either... when the OP makes this about gaara going to his shukaku mode, then that'll be worried about.
> 
> smh, seriously, how shameless does one need to be to go this route?
> 
> people around here saying anything they can to try to make themselves right, instead of trying to find the most logical/sensible answer though debate/discussion/argumentation/etc.... seriously people... wtf.



Yeah.


----------



## ueharakk (May 18, 2013)

Shadow050 said:


> "anything" no.
> Gaara's sand and such? obviously.


Why is that? 




Shadow050 said:


> no he won't. he doesn't need to use it in order to avoid the sand - and doesn't need to do so if the are is flooded.
> 
> i just LOVE how you completely ignored the part where I pointed out that Gaara wouldn't even be afforded the time to flood the area in the first place.


Yeah he would.

When did you do such?



Shadow050 said:


> lies. everything mentioned there is important. again, he will not be flooding anything. they're 10 meters apart - why the hell would Neji allow him to do this?


Not at all. 
>Neji is fast
>Neji can see sand being made
>Neji won't stand around

That was your point in a nutshell and nothing here is important because you've said it before which didn't prove he could.



Shadow050 said:


> and IF the are was to get flooded, it still wouldn't work how you say. we see, even in part 2, that Gaara distracts opponents before even wasing his time trying to just grab them - this is because things aren't how you imagine them to be. does it get easier to catch someone while they're on sand? OF COURSE... but does that lower difficulty mean you can now catch them easily? NO, NOT NECESSARILY. especially not when they can see ALL the sand that's actually being controlled.


And yet we have seen 



Shadow050 said:


> perhaps if you took the time to actually read and comprehend everything, you might notice the comparison with TIDAL WAVE tossed at he and his team, that was avoided in the same sense of what we're talking about with the sand wave... and futhermore, the sand wave is smaller. if TENTEN who is slower than him can avoid that tidal wave, you're crazy to think he can't avoid the sand wave.
> 
> i've already supported my claims. _do you think_ that part 2 tenten is better equipped to avoid shouten kisame's tidal wave, than Neji is to avoid the sand wave?
> 
> ...


So no feat of Neji having the speed to do such during the SRA and before. Thanks.




Shadow050 said:


> kimimaro didn't "pop" out of the sand... he was SLOWLY making his way out of it with pure physical strength, and slowly picked up speed. the method of freeing oneself from the sand is COMPLETELY different.
> 
> a small scale move will be as useless against Neji as it was one Lee, Sasuke, and Kimimaro.


Doesn't matter if it will be useless, it will force Neji to use chakra.



Shadow050 said:


> again, HOW does gaara get this sand wave off in the first place?


FIrst Gaara grinds up sand then he he sends off a huge wave. Not hard to figure out.



Shadow050 said:


> i missed the part where he's apt to do that... because y'know, SRA Gaara wasn't resorting to his Bijuu.


Because he magically lost the ability to go into Bijuu mode right?



Shadow050 said:


> snip


Don't care about Chunnin exam arc Gaara match up as im only talking about the first scenario.



Shadow050 said:


> the OP sure as hell wasn't thinking about Gaara fighting in a Bijuu mode when he made this thread either... when the OP makes this about gaara going to his shukaku mode, then that'll be worried about.
> 
> smh, seriously, how shameless does one need to be to go this route?
> 
> people around here saying anything they can to try to make themselves right, instead of trying to find the most logical/sensible answer though debate/discussion/argumentation/etc.... seriously people... wtf.


Yeah.


----------



## Gangryong Ma (May 18, 2013)

Neji loses both scenarios IMO.  He would fare better in the Chuunin Exams but he doesn't have Lee's speed or power.  I doubt Jyuken could handle all that sand.


----------



## Veo (May 18, 2013)

This is the Gaara we saw against Kimmimaro.

He stomps both scenarios. Neji cannot keep up with his sand as well as Kimmimaro did, to start with.

Sand tsunami + sabaku souso = Neji dies.


----------



## Shadow050 (May 19, 2013)

Kazekage94 said:


> Tell me something, How is Neji going to catch Gaara while he is 30 feet or higher in the air. Also at the same time, Neji is not Sasuke nor Lee at all. There is no comparison. Lee was beating Gaara's ass(hate to say it) but he was. At the same time Lee WOULD HAVE DIED. If Gaara instantly ascends how will Neji get him, and plus Gaara can still do damage in the air. Neji would have to dodge his sand, while Gaara can make more STILL IN THE Air. Then Neji gets tired and Gaara can catch him. NOW WHAT? Gaara's intelligents level increases higher than Neji's.



gaara DOES NOT FIGHT THAT WAY. stop with the fanfiction in roder to make gaara the winner. it's not clever or even respectable. ANYONE can play that kind of game for ANY character.

indeed, Neji isn't Lee or Sasuke, he's BETTER THAN BOTH OF THEM at this point in time. and has _real_ EQUAL SPEED to UNWEIGHTED LEE. stop trying to avoid/deny FACTS.

you're post is moot due to you fanficing. stop it. Gaara does not fight by simply trying to float outside of the range of his opponents while trying to manipulate sand.



Bonly said:


> Why is that?



because the sand obviously conducts chakra. which is the reason it's able to be controlled like it is.



Bonly said:


> Yeah he would.
> 
> When did you do such?



he he wouldn't.

i did so from the very beginning when i pointed out that with only 10 meters separating them, Gaara is easily blitzed, and Neji's speed gets him by the sand with ease.



Bonly said:


> Not at all.
> >Neji is fast
> >Neji can see sand being made
> >Neji won't stand around
> ...



I did prove it. you're just playing the denial game.



Bonly said:


> And yet we have seen



"yet we have seen" what - the fact that m claim is 100% supported? 



Bonly said:


> So no feat of Neji having the speed to do such during the SRA and before. Thanks.



more denial of common sense. good job.



Bonly said:


> Doesn't matter if it will be useless, it will force Neji to use chakra.



except it won't cause him to use chakra because it (small  scale sand attacks) won't catch him.



Bonly said:


> FIrst Gaara grinds up sand then he he sends off a huge wave. Not hard to figure out.



 he doesn't get the time to grind up the sand, therefore he doesn't do a big wave.



Bonly said:


> Because he magically lost the ability to go into Bijuu mode right?



because that's how he tends to fight right?



Bonly said:


> Don't care about Chunnin exam arc Gaara match up as im only talking about the first scenario.



and you're still wrong and in denial.




Gangryong Ma said:


> Neji loses both scenarios IMO.  He would fare better in the Chuunin Exams but he doesn't have Lee's speed or power.  I doubt Jyuken could handle all that sand.



Chunin exam Neji did have the speed to get past Gaara's sand... Neji has NEVER been slower than Sasuke, and sasuke EASILY got around Gaara's sand... so obviously Neji can accomplish this task too. 

"all that sand"? gaara comes equipped with the sand in his gourd... with only 10 meters of space separating them, he does not have or get the prep time to create so much more sand, and ends up losing.

even if he had the prep time, neji can logically avoid the sand considering a SLOWER tenten was able to avoid a BIGGER tsunami from a _more skilled and dangerous opponent_. 



Veo said:


> This is the Gaara we saw against Kimmimaro.
> 
> He stomps both scenarios. Neji cannot keep up with his sand as well as Kimmimaro did, to start with.
> 
> Sand tsunami + sabaku souso = Neji dies.



that gaara still loses. Neji's doesn't have the same worries as kimimaro who knew almost nothing about Gaara's abilities. he doesn't hesitate, wait, and fail to notice gaara making more sand.

:faceplam he stomps an opponent who is above both the opponents who were kicking his ass, and who equal to or faster than both opponents who was kicking his ass, and who uses a style that is superior to and more effective than that of both opponents.... _riiiiiight._ 

Neji can keep up with the sand _better_ than Kimimaro since he can see it all and sense it all. being able to see and sense it all >> a 0.5 speed advantage.

he knows about gaara's abilities and style of fighting - as he's seen him fight already and has knowledge from the OP. he's not going to let Gaara make the sand to do the sand tsunami in the first place... and the sand tsunamai wouldn't capture him under the logic stated above.


----------



## Bonly (May 19, 2013)

Shadow050 said:


> because the sand obviously conducts chakra. which is the reason it's able to be controlled like it is.



Then why do you think that Neji can't destroy anything made from chakra then? You pick this out that it can be destroyed yet don't think he can destroy anything. So what basis do you have for what he can and can't destroy without sounding biased?



> he he wouldn't.
> 
> i did so from the very beginning when i pointed out that with only 10 meters separating them, Gaara is easily blitzed, and Neji's speed gets him by the sand with ease.



Indeed he would.

No, you think you did but you didn't.



> I did prove it. you're just playing the denial game.



Not really but ok.



> "yet we have seen" what - the fact that m claim is 100% supported?



I forgot to finish that part lol. We have seen Gaara try to catch someone right away in his fights, unlike your false claim.



> more denial of common sense. good job.



Coming from the guy that thinks Gaara magically can't go Bijuu mode, this is pretty funny.



> except it won't cause him to use chakra because it (small  scale sand attacks) won't catch him.



Yeah it would, with all the sand that flooded the place, Gaara will catch him quickly just like he did Kimi.



> he doesn't get the time to grind up the sand, therefore he doesn't do a big wave.



Your opinion here doesn't matter. You asked how he makes sand and I did, your opinion of him being able to or not is irrelevant to the question you asked.



> because that's how he tends to fight right?



Indeed.



> and you're still wrong and in denial.



Whatever helps you get through the night.


----------



## Shadow050 (May 19, 2013)

Bonly said:


> Then why do you think that Neji can't destroy anything made from chakra then? You pick this out that it can be destroyed yet don't think he can destroy anything. So what basis do you have for what he can and can't destroy without sounding biased?



well let's _think_... Golden Armor is MADE FROM CHAKRA  *but* is specially stated to block out chakra and therefore it nullifies Juuken - SO OBVIOUSLY it's not the case that "literally anything" made of/from chakra can be destroyed by Juuken, right?

well, the sand does not possess this ability - or rather, at the very least making that kind of assumption is not reasonable - therefore it _can be destroyed by juuken and/or used as a juuken conduit._

is that too complicated?



Bonly said:


> Indeed he would.
> 
> No, you think you did but you didn't.



no. he wouldn't.

if I didn't, make an argument and/or prove me wrong. at this point you're just being a troll.



Bonly said:


> Not really but ok.



 again, if i didn't prove it inside of trolling.



Bonly said:


> I forgot to finish that part lol. We have seen Gaara try to catch someone right away in his fights, unlike your false claim.



and how the hell does this effect anything i said? of course he's going to try to catch neji from the start... he's going to try _and he's going to fail_. as i've said, Neji has knowledge on him, has seen him fight, and will not be hesitating like kimimaro was.. and like Sasuke _didn't do, because he knew how Gaara fought and what he needed to do as well_.

I've made no false claim - again, if this is the case, prove my claim to be false.



Bonly said:


> Coming from the guy that thinks Gaara magically can't go Bijuu mode, this is pretty funny.



I don't believe Gaara CAN'T go bijuu mode... that's not the issue. the Issue is that HE WON'T go bijuu mode - so yes, this is pretty funny. you're arguing on the logic of OOC fantasy. that's not how these mtch ups are supposed to work, unless directly stated by the OP.



Bonly said:


> Yeah it would, with all the sand that flooded the place, Gaara will catch him quickly just like he did Kimi.



wrong. becuase the ONLY REASON he caught kimi with the wave was because kimimaro was _just emerging_ from being caught and was still recovering. 

why don't you actually try supporting some of your claims with *sound* logic and reasoning? is it perhaps because you can't?



Bonly said:


> Your opinion here doesn't matter. You asked how he makes sand and I did, your opinion of him being able to or not is irrelevant to the question you asked.



indeed my opinion doesn't matter which is why I stated my stance based on Facts, sound logic, and sound reasoning - i'd appreciated it if you at least tried doing so too.

 thank you for showing me you are either a troll or have shit-level reading comprehension which caused you to fail to actually understand what was being asked. I obviously know how the sand if made considering that i stated how it made before you "explanation" and also posted links. 

 great job!



Bonly said:


> Indeed.



 care to post a couple of scans of him fighting his fights this way?



Bonly said:


> Whatever helps you get through the night.



seriously... if you have nothing of sustenance to add, why are you responding? stop trolling... or at least be funny while doing it.


----------



## Kazekage94 (May 19, 2013)

Shadow050 said:


> gaara DOES NOT FIGHT THAT WAY. stop with the fanfiction in roder to make gaara the winner. it's not clever or even respectable. ANYONE can play that kind of game for ANY character.
> 
> indeed, Neji isn't Lee or Sasuke, he's BETTER THAN BOTH OF THEM at this point in time. and has _real_ EQUAL SPEED to UNWEIGHTED LEE. stop trying to avoid/deny FACTS.
> 
> ...



 I am tired of your BS. Neji  died for crying out loud. When Lee was fighting Gaara in the exams his unweighted condition was still not enough to hit Gaara he had to go in Gates mode. Neji doesnt have that therefore he dies. Also all 3 are better than Neji at this point.


----------



## Skywalker (May 19, 2013)

Neji's number one fan is going hard today.

Neji isn't penetrating Gaara's defense in either scenario, he doesn't have the speed or the power, and he can't use his Kaiten forever either, eventually he's going to get overwhelmed quicker then not. The second match if Gaara feels pressured he won't hold back on using his Bijuu forms either, not like he'll need them, Neji isn't doing anything against a tsunami of sand expect dying a horrible death. The starting distance just makes it easier for Gaara.


----------



## Shadow050 (May 20, 2013)

*Gyat-damned simpletons... I'm too old for this shyt...*



Kazekage94 said:


> I am tired of your BS. Neji  died for crying out loud. When Lee was fighting Gaara in the exams his unweighted condition was still not enough to hit Gaara he had to go in Gates mode. Neji doesnt have that therefore he dies. Also all 3 are better than Neji at this point.



YOUR tired of MY bs? child please.

what does neji dying have to do with this - especially when his death was a sacrifice he willingly made?

and also, Gaara died too  - or have you forgotten that, and his death wasn't nearly "_willing_" 

Lee needed the gates in order to hit gaara because even without the weights he couldn't hit gaara?  
ok, you obviously don't know wtf you're talking about. since you think that though, explain these links:
Shinten Bunshin
Shinten Bunshin

he's clearly hitting gaara, he's just not hurting him because he's not hitting him enough. Sasuke was beating the shit out Gaara and he was EASILY doing so by ALMOST MATCHING Lee's unweighted speed... so OBVIOUSLY the unweighted speed if _more than faster enough_. the reason sasuke had an even easier time is because the sharingan's visual capability is obviously greater than that of normal eyes, which allowed sasuke to use lee's speed in conjuction with his own sharingan eyes and EASILY navigate around the sand to beat Gaara up. he even unleashed a small combo/flurry after navigating through the sand. Neji possess this speed, and a BETTER EYE FOR THIS OBJECTIVE... AND a more effective style. 

 you guys obviously lack basic math skills and logic to be able to figure out that neji would've worked him over _much worse_ than either lee or sasuke did.

and... it's easy to be "better" than neji _at this point (THE CURRENT point in the manga)_ since he's dead. hell, at this point all 3 are better than rikudou too then. as for the last time we saw neji alive, no - all three were not better than Neji. 

but guess what? _that wouldn't even matter_ IF they were, because none of them were better than him during the time which this thread is focused on. but thanks for the *red herring*.


----------



## Shadow050 (May 20, 2013)

Skywalker said:


> Neji's number one fan is going hard today.
> 
> Neji isn't penetrating Gaara's defense in either scenario, he doesn't have the speed or the power, and he can't use his Kaiten forever either, eventually he's going to get overwhelmed quicker then not. The second match if Gaara feels pressured he won't hold back on using his Bijuu forms either, not like he'll need them, Neji isn't doing anything against a tsunami of sand expect dying a horrible death. The starting distance just makes it easier for Gaara.



idk if i'm neji #1 fan or not, but I certainly am the #1 fan of logic and reasoning - if people are just giving gaara the benefit of the doubt fsay so... don't spit some illogical argument like it's legit. man the fuck up, and say it... it'll save us all time and energy.

Sky, do not assist the stupidity of the peons. 

just read the post(s) where everything you just said has been refuted.

NOTHING i've said has been disproved. what kind of shyt are people on where logic and reasoning mean absolutely nothing in a debate/argument?

 Neji doesn't even need to use kaiten here  

in any case... if you seriously believe what you said, we can go step by step and i'll prove it to you and anyone else, that these things people believe are incorrect.


----------



## Veo (May 20, 2013)

Shadow050, I understand that you want to defend Neji no matter what, but you are being delusional here tbh bud. Just accept the fact that Gaara was and is way stronger than your favorite character.

Neji has not shown any speed feats that make me believe he can deal with sand attacks the way Kimmimaro did, or penetrate sand defenses like Lee did *using 4 gates *. Naruto slapped Neji in the face during the chuunin exam and he did nothing better ever after.

The thread is about Gaara vs Neji and we are all explaining different reasons why Neji loses. Again, Gaara uses his sand to keep Neji distracted, which is not too complicated, or he goes airborne and summons the sand sunami. The end. 

Gaara stomps, low diff.


----------



## Kazekage94 (May 20, 2013)

Shadow050 said:


> YOUR tired of MY bs? child please.
> 
> what does neji dying have to do with this - especially when his death was a sacrifice he willingly made?
> 
> ...



Dude, i like the fact that you don't give up. I am not going to lie Neji is very skilled, and clever, but Gaara is my #1 favorite character, and i can understand he can be beat by people. Though Hashirama is better than most people and he is dead. I am done fighting, lets just leave it at Neji getting crushed, and Gaara getting 64-palmed a tie happy?


----------



## Shadow050 (May 20, 2013)

Kazekage94 said:


> Dude, i like the fact that you don't give up. I am not going to lie Neji is very skilled, and clever, but Gaara is my #1 favorite character, and i can understand he can be beat by people. Though Hashirama is better than most people and he is dead. I am done fighting, lets just leave it at Neji getting crushed, and Gaara getting 64-palmed a tie happy?



Believe it or not, I like Gaara A LOT. If I applied an actual order or rank to characters I like it'd be something like this:
1) Neji
2/3) Gaara
3/2) Nidaime (_he's grown on me like a motherfuckin' rash! _ lol)

a tie is fine... we (as in you and I specifically) can leave it there if you want. _unfortunately, I'm still compelled to respond to other posts.... _



Veo said:


> Shadow050, I understand that you want to defend Neji no matter what, but you are being delusional here tbh bud. Just accept the fact that Gaara was and is way stronger than your favorite character.



It's not about defending him *"no matter what"* and there's *nothing delusional* about what I said - in fact it's quite reasonable which is why everyone responding to my claims has such a difficult time dealing with what I presented.

Gaara wasn't "way stronger" and arguably wasn't, even in part 2 (rather, this statement would be being made COMPLETELY based on an argument from ignorance, subjectivity, and biases... and would be completely invalid). I have no need to accept things that aren't true and aren't backed up by the manga, databook, logic, nor reasoning...

I can accept a person granting the benefit of the doubt, hell - I do so for the kakashi (the part 1 version in particular) vs Neji match.... but that's not what people here a saying or manning/owning up to. instead y'all spew already beaten logic.



Veo said:


> Neji has not shown any speed feats that make me believe he can deal with sand attacks the way Kimmimaro did, or penetrate sand defenses like Lee did *using 4 gates *. Naruto slapped Neji in the face during the chuunin exam and he did nothing better ever after.



first of all, he has shown a couple of speed feats.... secondly, does he really NEED to SHOW these "speed feats" in order to possess them? I say "no" considering _we KNOW he has to speed_ to handle the sand. 

furthermore, this is the problem with solely relying on "feats" in the first place since they're so subjective. Neji has shown speed dashing through a bunch of narutos who COULD NOT *TOUCH* him in the chunnin exam finals. he's shown such speed when he instantly closed on kidoumaru to unleash 64 points, he's shown such speed WHILE chakra-exhausted, gravely injured and supporting his injuries _with chakra_.... yet you all claim he lacks speed or speed feats. 

furthermore, he has an eye that makes it so he doesn't even need to be BLAZING fast, despite the fact that he IS blazing fast. the ONLY _real_ issue is that Neji's style of fighting doesn't RELY ON "brandishing his speed to overwhelm his foes... .and there's a very obvious reason kishi hasn't made him operate in this way - and that reason is because he'd be even more haxxed during that time in the manga, and the fights would have been terribly terribly lopsided and extremely boring, outside of the wow factor that quickly fades when a person is equipped with the other advantages he has.

i have no idea where you make "using the gates" stand out, as if Lee NEEDED to gates to make contact with Gaara, which is the only thing needed here. esepcially when SASUKE also made contact - even more mind you, and he NEVER CAME CLOSE to touching the *"gates' speed"* Lee... which is ALSO SOMETHING NEJI CAN HANDLE which is why the arguments about Neji being able to handle the speed of the sand ARE RETARDED.

Naruto did no such thing until _the byakugan was off_. Neji was DAMAGED AND TIRED, and his gaurd was COMPLETELY DROPPED. _and_ this was an obvious PnJ moment... not only the moment but what lead to it. why are you mentioning red herrings at this moment? he did nothing better after the exam? smh... that's not true and you know it.... have you joined a certain someone in trying to simply troll by that remark? 



Veo said:


> The thread is about Gaara vs Neji and we are all explaining different reasons why Neji loses. Again, Gaara uses his sand to keep Neji distracted, which is not too complicated, or he goes airborne and summons the sand sunami. The end.



all the explanations fall on their face in light of FACTS/EVIDENCE/LOGIC/REASONING/etc from _manga and databook_ though... which is why EVERYTHING you guys have said has been arbitrary and completely lacks support.

Gaara can't simply "*keep Neji distracted*" from the distances they're at. 10 meters is seriously not that far apart, despite that being the distance at which _jutsu_ become considered long range. the only time we've seen a person be "kept distracted" by the sand is when the person was ignorant of Gaara's actual fighting style and abilities, and was hewas attacked before he finished his analysis - neji doesn't have this handicap. this person didn't SEE the other actions Gaara was taking like neji WILL/WOULD.... and then they were TRICKED in a way that Neji WILL NOT BE. so no, it's not going down like that.

*"or Gaara goes airborne and summons the sand tsunami"??* for all the harping about feats, i have never seen Gaara take such a course of action.... in part 1... did you? care to link me to when and where he operates in this way at all?  we BOTH KNOW he doesn't operate that way. the one time he's taken such action it wasa preempt attack and he was on the sand nimbus because because he was coming from so far away along with Oonoki. when Gaara's father is taken care of, he doesn't simply float high in the sky and execute attacks... because that's not the way he actually tends to fight - despite how much often people like to try to claim he wll operate this way.  even when using the sand nimbus, he never simply stays at a distance that is unreachable by his opponent. generally speaking, such claims are more OOC than they are in IC, as his taking such actions are 100% conditional... and at no time has that condition EVER been "the opponent is too fast" or anything, so your argument doesn't even fit into the conditions in which he has taken such an action.



Veo said:


> Gaara stomps, low diff.



No... Neji wins at least 60%-70% of the time, medium difficulty is the worst case scenario in at worst in the wins.

If I was being as unreasonable as the rest of you guys, I'd be using the *fact* that Neji COULD access at least the first gate, as proof that Neji can tap into extreme speeds... 
this form
as this link shows that they were trying to "master" ... which isn't NOT simply the opening of the gate, but the _action that takes place AFTER opening the gate_ itself. therefore, all the members of Team Gai can be said to be capable of opening at least the first gate. but you won't see me basing an argument around this kind of thing. you guys on the other hand, are doing the equivalent of this... it needs to stop.


----------



## Veo (May 20, 2013)

Shadow050 said:


> Believe it or not, I like Gaara A LOT. If I applied an actual order or rank to characters I like it'd be something like this:
> 1) Neji
> 2/3) Gaara
> 3/2) Nidaime (_he's grown on me like a motherfuckin' rash! _ lol)
> ...



I appreciate the effort, but Gaara is too much for him, sorry to say


----------



## Solar12 (May 21, 2013)

I don't think these panels have been posted yet..

Neji has incredible running speed.
During part 1 when fighting Kidomaru Neji sends his chakra though the web to stun Kidomaru.
As he starts falling out of the tree. Neji covers this distance: _strain_ (top panel) before Kidomaru even hits the ground.
_strain_
_strain_

Anyone saying he isn't fast enough is just delusional.
He was heavily wounded and he could have only increased his speed after the timeskip. So peak condition Neji is plenty fast enough to blitz Gaara. Along with Hakkekusho which can keep the pressure on Gaara as Neji runs circles around him.

Also I'm fairly certain that Juken could punch through the chakra controlled sand.


----------



## Shadow050 (May 21, 2013)

Veo said:


> I appreciate the effort, but Gaara is too much for him, sorry to say



WOW 

awesome counter-*argument*.


----------



## Shadow050 (May 21, 2013)

Solar12 said:


> I don't think these panels have been posted yet..
> 
> Neji has incredible running speed.
> During part 1 when fighting Kidomaru Neji sends his chakra though the web to stun Kidomaru.
> ...



i've mentioned these, but they act like i didn't lol. neji was also exhausted and using chakra to support his wounds... so that speed he used to close in on kidoumaru was straight up natural speed... and the distance was way more than 50 meters. but people go out of their way to doubt him - depsite the fact that links shouldn't even be necessary. a 4 point rating in the databook puts him on par with lee's true natural speed.... aka - unweighted speed. a speed that when replicated (via chakra control to his legs) by sasuke, allowed hi mto very easily bypass the gaara's sand defenses.

this match up isn't about part 2 versions of the characters, but yes, a healthy part 1 neji is indeed fast enough. juuken strikes can be effective for multiple reasons. the force of them can be great - proven by neji knocking a kidoumaru through a tree trunk with FINGER JABS (64 points), juuken can likely be conducted through the sand in a similar fashion to how neji sent it up kidoumaru's web, and/or neji can simply destroy the substance at it's made (held together and manipulated) through chakra. adding regular liquids and such can fuck of the sand, or mixing in other substances (gold) can mess it up... so obviously chakra from juuken can ruin gaara's sand too, if it's poured into.

in short, their stances don't really make sense, and they can supersede any of this logic... so they don't even bother trying to actually support their claims with something like, y'know.... evidence. lol.


----------



## Bonly (May 21, 2013)

Shadow050 said:


> well let's _think_... Golden Armor is MADE FROM CHAKRA  *but* is specially stated to block out chakra and therefore it nullifies Juuken - SO OBVIOUSLY it's not the case that "literally anything" made of/from chakra can be destroyed by Juuken, right?
> 
> well, the sand does not possess this ability - or rather, at the very least making that kind of assumption is not reasonable - therefore it _can be destroyed by juuken and/or used as a juuken conduit._
> 
> is that too complicated?



So if im understanding this you believe that Gaara sand armor will be destroyed based on what was said by Neji. Even though he said anything can be destroyed you disagree. You then go to use how Neji destroyed Kido's armor which is made out of chakra and think that Gaara's sand armor which uses already made sand(not made from chakra) will be destroyed because Kido's armor was destroyed and it had the ability to block chakra? Am I right so far? Also you failed to answer my question. What basis do you have for what he can and can't destroy while using Jyuuken if you don't believe he can destroy anything?



> no. he wouldn't.
> 
> if I didn't, make an argument and/or prove me wrong. at this point you're just being a troll.



You haven't given a good reason as to why Gaara's sand armor would be destroyed for him to not be able flood the place in a few minutes. 



> again, if i didn't prove it inside of trolling.



If you didn't prove it inside of trolling? What?



> and how the hell does this effect anything i said? of course he's going to try to catch neji from the start... he's going to try _and he's going to fail_. as i've said, Neji has knowledge on him, has seen him fight, and will not be hesitating like kimimaro was.. and like Sasuke _didn't do, because he knew how Gaara fought and what he needed to do as well_.
> 
> I've made no false claim - again, if this is the case, prove my claim to be false.



You said "we see, even in part 2, that Gaara distracts opponents before even wasing his time trying to just grab them this is because things aren't how you imagine them to be.".

I went to tell you that in every fight he's in Gaara goes to grab his opponent shortly after the match starts(upon which you agree)thus your statement of "that Gaara distracts opponents before even wasing his time trying to just grab" is indeed a false claim.



> I don't believe Gaara CAN'T go bijuu mode... that's not the issue. the Issue is that HE WON'T go bijuu mode - so yes, this is pretty funny. you're arguing on the logic of OOC fantasy. that's not how these mtch ups are supposed to work, unless directly stated by the OP.



Oh so its just your personal opinion that he won't go full Bijuu Mode so you treat it as a fact. Thanks for clearing that up.



> wrong. becuase the ONLY REASON he caught kimi with the wave was because kimimaro was _just emerging_ from being caught and was still recovering.
> 
> why don't you actually try supporting some of your claims with *sound* logic and reasoning? is it perhaps because you can't?



Not at all. After Gaara flood the place Neji will be buried as well. If Kimimaro who had a 4.5 in speed then Neji who had a 3(or a 4) in speed won't be able to dodge all that sand when he's at the base of it. 

I have,you haven't given any good reason as to why he isn't getting caught except for "hurrrrrrrrrrrr durrrrrrrrrrrr Neji is fast yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh".





> indeed my opinion doesn't matter which is why I stated my stance based on Facts, sound logic, and sound reasoning - i'd appreciated it if you at least tried doing so too.
> 
> thank you for showing me you are either a troll or have shit-level reading comprehension which caused you to fail to actually understand what was being asked. I obviously know how the sand if made considering that i stated how it made before you "explanation" and also posted links.
> 
> great job!



Ahhh are you mad because you wasn't smart to correctly type what you was thinking when you made the sentence "HOW does gaara get this sand wave off in the first place?". Its ok I got something for you 



> care to post a couple of scans of him fighting his fights this way?



Have you not read the Chunnin exam arc?



> seriously... if you have nothing of sustenance to add, why are you responding? stop trolling... or at least be funny while doing it.



Because I love the tears of butthurt fanboys.


----------



## AlphaReaver (May 21, 2013)

Stalemate!


----------



## Veo (May 21, 2013)

Shadow050 said:


> WOW
> 
> awesome counter-*argument*.



I'm not here to counter-argument a fantasy in your mind, dude. If you really want to believe Neji can defeat Gaara it's fine, I'm ok with it.


----------



## Complete_Ownage (May 21, 2013)

Gaara is going to stomp the crap out of neji in both scenarios


----------



## Okodi (May 21, 2013)

In the first scenario Gaara would win as he was able to best Kimimaro, who was the strongest out of the sound nin even though diseased, and his fight against Lee had no real impact on him.

Gaara is just going to be too strong for that current Neji and Gaara has great defenses. Neji's nintendo64 strikes might not even work on Gaara due to the fact that Kidomaru, who can also create a layer of matter infused with chakra, was able to completely block Neji's attempt at striking his Tenketsus. Because of that Gaara might not be affected.

Just as shown by Kidomaru at that time, Kaiten can be slowed down if it gets "grinded" down by continuously applied matter (in that case webs). Gaara would have little problem doing so.


In scenario 2 Gaara would win again. Here he defeats a gated Lee who could arguably even defeat Neji whom himself was in shock. With his speed and power Lee would have bypassed Kaitens activation time similar to how Naruto partially bypassed. Though Gaara doens't have the speed, if he can survive Ura Renge with his armor then that sand should have little problem blocking Neji's Juuken.

Gaara is has natural defenses against Juuken unless that Juuken comes from an elevated user like Hiashi or has lightning nature.

Gaara would win both this battles.


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## Shadow050 (May 21, 2013)

Bonly said:


> So if im understanding this you believe that Gaara sand armor will be destroyed based on what was said by Neji. Even though he said anything can be destroyed you disagree. You then go to use how Neji destroyed Kido's armor which is made out of chakra and think that Gaara's sand armor which uses already made sand(not made from chakra) will be destroyed because Kido's armor was destroyed and it had the ability to block chakra? Am I right so far? Also you failed to answer my question. What basis do you have for what he can and can't destroy while using Jyuuken if you don't believe he can destroy anything?



no... you aren't right so far... i didn't make any argument about Neji destroying Kidoumaru's golden armor. i said that he didn't destroy it with juuken, because it was specifically stated to block chakra out. Gaara's sand obviously doesn't do that. 

you magically keep going to juuken destroying the sand armor (without understanding the statement), when that's the only argument as to why juuken will be effective. I gave 3 different reasons why it will end up being effective.
*1)* the force from juuken is enough to be breaking through the sand - contrary to popular belief, juuken can hit with a lot of physical force which was proven by neji knocking kidoumaru through a tree trunk via 64 points (which are finger jabs). tenketsu strikes can clearly be varied, and any reasonable person understand that the same applies to standard juuken strikes too.
*2)* Juuken can be CONDUCTED (channeled) through substances that are using chakra, and thus the sand armor. juuken chakra is able to be poured into the sand gaara uses, therefor bypassing it completely and using it to hit gaara.
*3)* Juuken will be able to destroy the sand armor. I iddn't say Neji will simply destroy the sand... i said he can destroy SAND ARMOR. the sand, through not 100% created by chakra, CONDUCTS chakra... which allows chakra to be POURED INTO IT. as neji stated, things made from chakra can be destroyed by pouring one's chakra into. sand armor is NOT simply made from sand. it's made from sand and chakra. you don't need to destroy the sand in order to destroy "sand armor". *for example* if the ONLY chakra part of "sand armor" is ruined, the sand will remain and will harmlessly fall the ground. another example - in part 2, edo-mizukage uses oils to fuck up the consistency of Gaara's sand... thus, these oils can "destroy" the "sand armor" without ACTUALLY destroying the sand. this same concept exists in say that juuken can "destroy" the sand armor. 

the basis of what chakra made things can be destroyed by juuken should be easily understood... golden armor is the only thing made from chakra to have been specifically stated as BLOCKING ALL CHAKRA. it's a unique trait of kidoumaru golden skin/armor (that kishi obviously inserted as a plot device). 

it's also obviously the reason why once it hardens, it can't can't be further manipulated and such... because ALL chakra is blocked out. Gaara's sand OBVIOUSLY doesn't possess this quality/trait.

so the short version of the "basis on what can or can't be destroyed" is _"common sense, given facts that are already established in the series"_...



Bonly said:


> You haven't given a good reason as to why Gaara's sand armor would be destroyed for him to not be able flood the place in a few minutes.



i have given the argument, and have done so repeatedly. and in the above i once again hold your hand through things that shouldn't need such depth in explanation.

your statement here doesn't even make sense - you just basically said, if the sand armor can't be destroyed he'll be able to flood the place. wrong again. if gaara's being forced to use the sand armor - something highly chakra consuming and that requires him consciously using it - he's obviously not going to be flooding anything. when gaara uses ryuusa bakryuu.... he makes his seal and places his hands on the ground - he is not performing this action while using being forced to use his sand armor - WHICH MEANS he's under pressure and being hit.



Bonly said:


> If you didn't prove it inside of trolling? What?



willful "misunderstanding" of an erroneously typed word, eh?

I meant to type:
"If you didn't, prove it INSTEAD of trolling"



Bonly said:


> You said "we see, even in part 2, that Gaara distracts opponents before even wasing his time trying to just grab them this is because things aren't how you imagine them to be.".
> 
> I went to tell you that in every fight he's in Gaara goes to grab his opponent shortly after the match starts(upon which you agree)thus your statement of "that Gaara distracts opponents before even wasing his time trying to just grab" is indeed a false claim.



more willful misunderstanding things as you willfully take my words out of context.

i was talking about how gaara doesn't insta-grab or even try insta-grabbing people when they're standing on his sand, which conflicts with your claim that standing on sand that he can take control over is going to allow him to the opponent to quickly for him to react or get away. he doesn't kimimaro this way, he doesn't catch the kages this way, he doesn't catch anyone this way... _but you think it makes sense to say it's going to happen to a person who can actually see and anticipate these attempts better than ANYONE who's actually been in this situation._ 

if you're goal was to establish what you say you "went to tell me", you're exhibiting an even lower reading comprehension level than previously noted. then again, that's how things turn out when a person takes things out of context to try to save face.

and if you weren't simply trying to save face you need to stop extracting parts of the whole through, instead of addressing the who thought.



Bonly said:


> Oh so its just your personal opinion that he won't go full Bijuu Mode so you treat it as a fact. Thanks for clearing that up.



it's not _just my person opinion_... it's an easily noticed and understood tendency within his character. he does just resort to his bijuu to win fights for him. it's the same way Naruto isn't so inclined to just summon gamabunta to fight his battles like various dumbasses have tried to argue.



Bonly said:


> Not at all. After Gaara flood the place Neji will be buried as well. If Kimimaro who had a 4.5 in speed then Neji who had a 3(or a 4) in speed won't be able to dodge all that sand when he's at the base of it.
> 
> I have,you haven't given any good reason as to why he isn't getting caught except for "hurrrrrrrrrrrr durrrrrrrrrrrr Neji is fast yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh".



Kimimaro was injured and recovering when he was meant with this wave and gaara had a bunch of time to create the sand he needed. this is not the case for neji. kimimaro also COULD NOT SEE what gaara was doing during the time he was making the sand, which is ANOTHER DIFFERENCE between them. you once again have context issues. typical behavior of a person who doesn't have a leg to stand on. Neji would not be at the base of the sand wave like Kimimaro was in the first place, which is the point. as i said, gaara won't get the chance to do this jutsu. but to entertain the very low chance of such a jutsu being used in this match, due to the set up of it by the OP, a good amount of distance would have been between them BEFORE Gaara uses it, and Neji would see it coming before it got anywhere near that size.

it's be great if you actually think about this more before you blurt it out via your keyboard or w/e you're using.



Bonly said:


> Ahhh are you mad because you wasn't smart to correctly type what you was thinking when you made the sentence "HOW does gaara get this sand wave off in the first place?". Its ok I got something for you



i'm not mad all so no. i didn't fail to correctly type the sentence... the only failure on my daring to assume a level of reading comprehension and common sense that you willfully avoid.



Bonly said:


> Have you not read the Chunnin exam arc?



smh... chunin exam arc shows gaara only goes into bijuu mode when he's forced to do to being so pressured. he only got the time to do so because sasuke was tiring (due to the fact he was expending chakra to replicate the speed he was using), which isn't something Neji has to worry about... thus logically it's not something neji would be affording him. 

furthermore, you said you were only interested in the first scenario. Gaara from this scenario handle situations and pressure DISTINCTLY different from the Gaara you just pointed to in order to try to keep this crappy argument afloat. you're desperation to maintain a stance you've taken has now reached new heights. 



Bonly said:


> Because I love the tears of butthurt fanboys.



is that why you're attempting to troll so hard? too bad for you, I'm not butthurt fanboy so I have no tears for you. you're limited ability to comprehend simply things causes you misunderstand things, so i'm not surprised you'd misjudge me as well. I'm not butthurt nor am i'm a fanboy. i'm a fan, not a fanboy, and you are the one who is butthurt. worry-not, I shall make this clear for everyone too... just like i have for EVERYTHING I've said.

one of the major differences between you and I is that developed my stance/view/argument/etc on this fight from an unbiased place and arrived at the most logical/reasonable conclusion based on the facts and everything we know. see, you approached this from a more unbiased place _AT THE BEGINNING_, but the moment I addressed what you said you assumed the biased, defiant, foolish stance you now try so hard to uphold. your misplaced pride is killing you. of course you'll deny this, but the legitimacy of what I said is very clear.



-that's where your descent began... and   was the one that sent you spiraling. anyone who reviews the back and forth between you and I, will easily see you devolve into your current, pitiable, butthurt posting state of being.


----------



## Bonly (May 21, 2013)

Shadow050 said:


> no... you aren't right so far... i didn't make any argument about Neji destroying Kidoumaru's golden armor. i said that he didn't destroy it with juuken, because it was specifically stated to block chakra out. Gaara's sand obviously doesn't do that.
> 
> you magically keep going to juuken destroying the sand armor (without understanding the statement), when that's the only argument as to why juuken will be effective. I gave 3 different reasons why it will end up being effective.
> *1)* the force from juuken is enough to be breaking through the sand - contrary to popular belief, juuken can hit with a lot of physical force which was proven by neji knocking kidoumaru through a tree trunk via 64 points (which are finger jabs). tenketsu strikes can clearly be varied, and any reasonable person understand that the same applies to standard juuken strikes too.
> ...



Ahh so in short your own personal biased for Neji is your basis.



> i have given the argument, and have done so repeatedly. and in the above i once again hold your hand through things that shouldn't need such depth in explanation.



Maybe you misunderstood but I said a good reason, not just a reason. I'm flattered you desire you hold my hand but im not that kind of girl, I already have someone in my life.



> your statement here doesn't even make sense - you just basically said, if the sand armor can't be destroyed he'll be able to flood the place. wrong again. if gaara's being forced to use the sand armor - something highly chakra consuming and that requires him consciously using it - he's obviously not going to be flooding anything. when gaara uses ryuusa bakryuu.... he makes his seal and places his hands on the ground - he is not performing this action while using being forced to use his sand armor - WHICH MEANS he's under pressure and being hit.



More personal opinion you treat as fact. Yeah lets ignore the huge amount of chakra he has and go with this.



> willful "misunderstanding" of an erroneously typed word, eh?
> 
> I meant to type:
> "If you didn't, prove it INSTEAD of trolling"



You mad you wasn't smart enough to read over your stuff and correct it before?



> more willful misunderstanding things as you willfully take my words out of context.



Not my fault you didn't learn how to correctly state something in school. Gotta say it with your chest brah.



> i was talking about how gaara doesn't insta-grab or even try insta-grabbing people when they're standing on his sand, which conflicts with your claim that standing on sand that he can take control over is going to allow him to the opponent to quickly for him to react or get away. he doesn't kimimaro this way, he doesn't catch the kages this way, he doesn't catch anyone this way... _but you think it makes sense to say it's going to happen to a person who can actually see and anticipate these attempts better than ANYONE who's actually been in this situation._



And yet he did against the kages.



> if you're goal was to establish what you say you "went to tell me", you're exhibiting an even lower reading comprehension level than previously noted. then again, that's how things turn out when a person takes things out of context to try to save face.
> 
> and if you weren't simply trying to save face you need to stop extracting parts of the whole through, instead of addressing the who thought.



Its ok, we all can't be smart enough to articulate what we mean correctly, don't  worry you'll get there soon enough.




> it's not _just my person opinion_... it's an easily noticed and understood tendency within his character. *he does just resort to his bijuu to win fights for him.* it's the same way Naruto isn't so inclined to just summon gamabunta to fight his battles like various dumbasses have tried to argue.



Glad you agree .



> Kimimaro was injured and recovering when he was meant with this wave and gaara had a bunch of time to create the sand he needed. this is not the case for neji. kimimaro also COULD NOT SEE what gaara was doing during the time he was making the sand, which is ANOTHER DIFFERENCE between them. you once again have context issues. typical behavior of a person who doesn't have a leg to stand on. Neji would not be at the base of the sand wave like Kimimaro was in the first place, which is the point. as i said, gaara won't get the chance to do this jutsu. but to entertain the very low chance of such a jutsu being used in this match, due to the set up of it by the OP, a good amount of distance would have been between them BEFORE Gaara uses it, and Neji would see it coming before it got anywhere near that size.



So Neji can't do anything and would need to run away and still get caught in the flood? Thanks for the concession.



> it's be great if you actually think about this more before you blurt it out via your keyboard or w/e you're using.



It'll be great if you weren't butthurt but them the breaks.



> i'm not mad all so no. i didn't fail to correctly type the sentence... the only failure on my daring to assume a level of reading comprehension and common sense that you willfully avoid.



>Ask how Gaara floods the place
>Gets told how Gaara does such
>Gets mad because he doesn't know how to articulate what he meant correctly

I enjoy the teas once more.



> smh... chunin exam arc shows gaara only goes into bijuu mode when he's forced to do to being so pressured. he only got the time to do so because sasuke was tiring (due to the fact he was expending chakra to replicate the speed he was using), which isn't something Neji has to worry about... thus logically it's not something neji would be affording him.



Gaara goes Bijuu mode when he feels like doing such, just like when he killed Dosu.



> furthermore, you said you were only interested in the first scenario. Gaara from this scenario handle situations and pressure DISTINCTLY different from the Gaara you just pointed to in order to try to keep this crappy argument afloat. you're desperation to maintain a stance you've taken has now reached new heights.



>Thinks Gaara wouldn't pull out his Bijuu if he needed it

Allofmylols.



> is that why you're attempting to troll so hard? too bad for you, I'm not butthurt fanboy so I have no tears for you. you're limited ability to comprehend simply things causes you misunderstand things, so i'm not surprised you'd misjudge me as well. I'm not butthurt nor am i'm a fanboy. i'm a fan, not a fanboy, and you are the one who is butthurt. worry-not, I shall make this clear for everyone too... just like i have for EVERYTHING I've said.
> 
> one of the major differences between you and I is that developed my stance/view/argument/etc on this fight from an unbiased place and arrived at the most logical/reasonable conclusion based on the facts and everything we know. see, you approached this from a more unbiased place _AT THE BEGINNING_, but the moment I addressed what you said you assumed the biased, defiant, foolish stance you now try so hard to uphold. your misplaced pride is killing you. of course you'll deny this, but the legitimacy of what I said is very clear.
> 
> ...



Lol thanks for proving my point. I got you so butthurt that you went back and got post to make yourself feel better and say when my descent began. Your such a butthurt fanboy that you reply to everyone saying your favorite character loses. The tears are so enjoyable but keep on replying so that I may enjoy your tears on the next level.


----------



## Shadow050 (May 21, 2013)

AlphaReaver said:


> Stalemate!



i wish it was stalemate lol... 



Veo said:


> I'm not here to counter-argument a fantasy in your mind, dude. If you really want to believe Neji can defeat Gaara it's fine, I'm ok with it.



 a "fantasy" supported with arguments/evidence/facts... 

like i said, it's much more respectable to man-up and state that you just believe what you do, or that you give the benefit of the doubt... 

you all are still having trouble doing that I see.



Complete_Ownage said:


> Gaara is going to stomp the crap out of neji in both scenarios



not true... at least not according to facts, evidence, and actual arguments... i know it's a novelty concept around here... but in time, others may catch up 



Okodi said:


> In the first scenario Gaara would win as he was able to best Kimimaro, who was the strongest out of the sound nin even though diseased, and his fight against Lee had no real impact on him.



he actually didn't best kimimaro in the end... and the damages he was able to inflict happen only because kimimaro was ignorant of Gaara and his abilities, which Neji is not. 

the unqiue differences also create a very different outcome. this is actually very simple. imagine kimimaro having Neji byakugan vision - JUST the visual (so the visual advantages it grants), none of the the techniques that it enables, and not even the sensing ability.... and we all know damn well that this fight is dramatically different. he sees gaara making sand more sand and doesn't give him the time to keep doing so. or, he continues to analyze gaara and gets attacked, but doesn't fall for the suna shigure distraction as kimimaro's feet are grabbed from below. in the end, this fight is very different... and kimimaro basically never gets crushed even once.



Okodi said:


> Gaara is just going to be too strong for that current Neji and Gaara has great defenses. Neji's nintendo64 strikes might not even work on Gaara due to the fact that Kidomaru, who can also create a layer of matter infused with chakra, was able to completely block Neji's attempt at striking his Tenketsus. Because of that Gaara might not be affected.



Gaara's defenses fail before juuken. kidoumaru's secretions had a unique property when hardening. Gaara's defenses don't possess the property. so he will be effected. 



Okodi said:


> Just as shown by Kidomaru at that time, Kaiten can be slowed down if it gets "grinded" down by continuously applied matter (in that case webs). Gaara would have little problem doing so.



this is more of a maybe situation, which you do not state it as, than the preceding section. you state this possibility as a definite, and state the preceding impossibility (given our information) as a possibility. 

it was due to the STICKINESS + the durability of the webs that kaiten was able to be stopped... the sand might not be able to replicate this feat. but more importantly, it wouldn't make sense for neji to rely on this very much. but more importantly, he doesn't need kaiten here AT ALL.



Okodi said:


> In scenario 2 Gaara would win again. Here he defeats a gated Lee who could arguably even defeat Neji whom himself was in shock. With his speed and power Lee would have bypassed Kaitens activation time similar to how Naruto partially bypassed. Though Gaara doens't have the speed, if he can survive Ura Renge with his armor then that sand should have little problem blocking Neji's Juuken.



you make a couple of big asusmptions here which are better addressed in a different topic as far as neji and lee are concerned. Neji wouldn't have been in the same predicament as Gaara though, and that's what is most important... Ura Renge was a one off trump card with the hope of notching 1 win again neji, for lee. it 100% relied on the element of surprise. after ura renge was seen, it was never going to be enough to beat neji. if nothing else, the facts about their rivalry prove this.   

you are again comparing apples to oranges, in order to make your claim. Gaara surviving ura renge via sand antics does not mean he can survive juuken attacks. the sand that help gaara survive ura renge was already on his body, and then the gourd sitting on his back cushioned his drop. this has nothing to do with the sand "blocking neji's juuken"... that same sand sitting on his body will be bypassed or the sand armor will be destroyed, leaving him completely vulnerable.  and neji, unlike others, will know it's there before ever attacking.



Okodi said:


> Gaara is has natural defenses against Juuken unless that Juuken comes from an elevated user like Hiashi or has lightning nature.



 Natrual defense?? no he doesn't. where are you getting this stuff from?



Okodi said:


> Gaara would win both this battles.



Neji will most likely win both scenarios. especially the second one.


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## Shadow050 (May 21, 2013)

*Thanks for the fun and lols Bonly the Troll lol. They were enjoyed.*



Bonly said:


> Ahh so in short your own personal biased for Neji is your basis.



eh no. your ability to somehow get take that from what i said is nothing short of amazing, in it's own way.



Bonly said:


> Maybe you misunderstood but I said a good reason, not just a reason. I'm flattered you desire you hold my hand but im not that kind of girl, I already have someone in my life.



I which I gave you but surprise surprise you fail you acknowledge it as so. LOL i have no desire to do such things. I'm glad you have someone in your life  they must be one hell of a person LOL. but thanks, this explains a lot 





Bonly said:


> More personal opinion you treat as fact. Yeah lets ignore the huge amount of chakra he has and go with this.



more willful ignorance. this isn't even about opinion lol. i clarified what you said (thank you for the concession btw) and told you why it doesn't work. it wasn't opinion, but common sense and facts. he does have ahuge amountof chakra, but the fact of the matter is, that this takes this consumes enough chakra for it to be a concern for him - which is why his siblings are worried and why he becomes pressured. facts. 



Bonly said:


> You mad you wasn't smart enough to read over your stuff and correct it before?



child please... you had a typing screw up as well... notice how you need to try to cling to this as if it means something, and i didn't do such things with you and let it go. like i said, desperation. 



Bonly said:


> Not my fault you didn't learn how to correctly state something in school. Gotta say it with your chest brah.



but it is your fault for purposely invoking the powers of stupidity.... as willful ignorance and misunderstanding often tend to allude to.



Bonly said:


> And yet he did against the kages.



and yet, he didn't. he distracted with sand hail first, then caught them.



Bonly said:


> Its ok, we all can't be smart enough to articulate what we mean correctly, don't  worry you'll get there soon enough.



the irony is  over 9000!!!



Bonly said:


> Glad you agree *zaru smiley* .



ho hoo... nothing gets by you :33



Bonly said:


> So Neji can't do anything and would need to run away and still get caught in the flood? Thanks for the concession.



more like thank YOU for the concession. you're not even trying anymore lol. seems like you understand things now. appeal to comedy moar... a wise decision. this is the move a veteran lol.



Bonly said:


> It'll be great if you weren't butthurt but them the breaks.



maybe if you keep repeating it, it'll come true! 



Bonly said:


> >Ask how Gaara floods the place
> >Gets told how Gaara does such
> >Gets mad because he doesn't know how to articulate what he meant correctly
> 
> I enjoy the teas once more.



>willfully(?) misunderstands the question being asked 
>answers the question seriously/trollingly
>acts like she was doing me a favor.

 i observe the desperation 




Bonly said:


> Gaara goes Bijuu mode when he feels like doing such, just like when he killed Dosu.



except he only went bijuu mode because his rages were spinning out of control. this is not the gaara you're interested in arguing though, so why do you keep going back to him? LOL



Bonly said:


> >Thinks Gaara wouldn't pull out his Bijuu if he needed it
> 
> Allofmylols.



>thinks Gaara would have used the bijuu, despite the position he was in when kimimaro suddenly died, and the fact that Gaara was saying they were aboutto be defeated.

*sides splitting*



Bonly said:


> Lol thanks for proving my point. I got you so butthurt that you went back and got post to make yourself feel better and say when my descent began. Your such a butthurt fanboy that you reply to everyone saying your favorite character loses. The tears are so enjoyable but keep on replying so that I may enjoy your tears on the next level.



i proved your point by proving you are in fact the butthurt one....  make sense. dat logic is, which has another name lol, is so epic lol.... which is exactly why it has it own set of memes lol. you are such a natural practitioner of this logic that you can't help yourself. i reply to posts that didn't say my favorite character loses too... yet you incredible logic is undeterred lol. the only tears I have are from the laughter you evoke, being such a clown lol. 

btw, does the fact that you used "your" when you obviously mean "you're" mean that I should start playing stupid to the nth degree? 


good day ma'am


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## Rocky (May 21, 2013)

Now I'm a bit confused.

What exactly makes Neji the same speed as unweighted Lee? Was that brought up somewhere, I can't remember.

I'm certain though that Neji is not as fast as Curse Seal Kimimaro, whom Gaara could keep up with easily. There will be no blitzing.


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## Bonly (May 21, 2013)

Shadow050 said:


> eh no. your ability to somehow get take that from what i said is nothing short of amazing, in it's own way.



What can I say, im just an amazing gal ^_^





> I which I gave you but surprise surprise you fail you acknowledge it as so. LOL i have no desire to do such things. I'm glad you have someone in your life  they must be one hell of a person LOL. but thanks, this explains a lot



Why thank you, me and ueharakk have an ok relationship though, been a bit boring as of late. I think I might turn to Rocky or Thunder or Jad for comfort if he doesn't et his act together.




> more willful ignorance. this isn't even about opinion lol. i clarified what you said (thank you for the concession btw) and told you why it doesn't work. it wasn't opinion, but common sense and facts. he does have ahuge amountof chakra, but the fact of the matter is, that this takes this consumes enough chakra for it to be a concern for him - which is why his siblings are worried and why he becomes pressured. facts.



Yup and we saw him easily keep it up during most of the fight with Lee even while they were worried.



> child please... you had a typing screw up as well... notice how you need to try to cling to this as if it means something, and i didn't do such things with you and let it go. like i said, desperation.



I had to lower my standards of typering to be on par with you 



> but it is your fault for purposely invoking the powers of stupidity.... as willful ignorance and misunderstanding often tend to allude to.



But the powers of stupidity are great and strong, it makes the Juubi look like an ant and as you can tell, im hella strong.



> and yet, he didn't. he distracted with sand hail first, then caught them.



Gaara caught them with his hands of sands before he used the hail, they just managed to get out :c



> the irony is  over 9000!!!
> 
> ho hoo... nothing gets by you



WHAT!?!?!?!? Over 9,000!? But im a low class warrior 

What can I say, its like I have the Byakugan c:



> more like thank YOU for the concession. you're not even trying anymore lol. seems like you understand things now. appeal to comedy moar... a wise decision. this is the move a veteran lol.



Did you think I was serious this whole time?



> maybe if you keep repeating it, it'll come true!



I have been constantly repeating how beatuiful I am and it seem to have work so why not with this.



> >willfully(?) misunderstands the question being asked
> >answers the question seriously/trollingly
> >acts like she was doing me a favor.
> 
> i observe the desperation



>desperation
>Bonly

wheredoiputalloftheselols?



> except he only went bijuu mode because his rages were spinning out of control. this is not the gaara you're interested in arguing though, so why do you keep going back to him? LOL



Didn't seem that way against Dosu. Because there's not much difference between the two.



> >thinks Gaara would have used the bijuu, despite the position he was in when kimimaro suddenly died, and the fact that Gaara was saying they were aboutto be defeated.
> 
> *sides splitting*



>Thinks Gaara can go Bijuu mode in a second

Toomanylols.



> i proved your point by proving you are in fact the butthurt one....  make sense. dat logic is, which has another name lol, is so epic lol.... which is exactly why it has it own set of memes lol. you are such a natural practitioner of this logic that you can't help yourself. i reply to posts that didn't say my favorite character loses too... yet you incredible logic is undeterred lol. the only tears I have are from the laughter you evoke, being such a clown lol.



What can I say, when its that time of the month, im just on fire with great logic.



> btw, does the fact that you used "your" when you obviously mean "you're" mean that I should start playing stupid to the nth degree?
> 
> 
> good day ma'am :^)



Well I gotta keep on your level so no need to play stupid as we are already there.

And good day to you too sir =]
By the way I'm a guy.


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## Shadow050 (May 21, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Now I'm a bit confused.
> 
> What exactly makes Neji the same speed as unweighted Lee? Was that brought up somewhere, I can't remember.
> 
> I'm certain though that Neji is not as fast as Curse Seal Kimimaro, whom Gaara could keep up with easily. There will be no blitzing.



Databook 2, neji's speed is a 4. 

in databook 1 and 2, Lee's speed is a 4... which is his speed without the weights on.

Neji is faster than CS2 kimimaro, who actually gets slower because of how his body changes. CS doesn't actually make people faster anyway... it enhances their chakra and any chakra based movements... so things like shushins will be faster and such, but their non-chakra based movements are arguably unchanged.

blitzing is easily accomplished. standard kimimaro didn't get to blitz because while he was thinking, gaara started to attack. review the manga fight and you'll notice that gaara happened to start launching attacks by the time kimimaro had deduced that gaara was not a close quarters type. while not knwoing gaara had auto defense, kimimaro was apparently content to dodge and fire fingetips are gaara. Neji doesn't lack knowledge like kimimaro and he also sees gaara making sand from the get go.


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## Shadow050 (May 21, 2013)

Bonly said:


> What can I say, im just an amazing gal ^_^



lol


*Spoiler*: __ 





Bonly said:


> Why thank you, me and ueharakk have an ok relationship though, been a bit boring as of late. I think I might turn to Rocky or Thunder or Jad for comfort if he doesn't et his act together.



lol... poor Ueharakk...




Bonly said:


> Yup and we saw him easily keep it up during most of the fight with Lee even while they were worried.



indeed. don't matter doe... juuken no care about defenses (dues ex machina except golden skin  lol)



Bonly said:


> I had to lower my standards of typering to be on par with you



lol indeed you did lower the standards of typering... i appreciate it :-}



Bonly said:


> But the powers of stupidity are great and strong, it makes the Juubi look like an ant and as you can tell, im hella strong.



LOL



Bonly said:


> Gaara caught them with his hands of sands before he used the hail, they just managed to get out :c



when they weren't standing on the sand he used, but next to it. and not due to the it's speed, as they watched it grab them lol 



Bonly said:


> WHAT!?!?!?!? Over 9,000!? But im a low class warrior
> 
> What can I say, its like I have the Byakugan c:



lol.... 

HEY! let's try to keep the gloves, eh?



Bonly said:


> Did you think I was serious this whole time?



 regrettably, it took me longer than I'd like to admit to cast away the doubts... 



Bonly said:


> I have been constantly repeating how beatuiful I am and it seem to have work so why not with this.



well when you put it that way...  



Bonly said:


> >desperation
> >Bonly
> 
> wheredoiputalloftheselols?







Bonly said:


> Didn't seem that way against Dosu. Because there's not much difference between the two.



dosu was just at the wrong place at the wrong time lol.



Bonly said:


> >Thinks Gaara *can* go Bijuu mode in a second
> 
> Toomanylols.



 I know right?



Bonly said:


> What can I say, when its that time of the month, im just on fire with great logic.







Bonly said:


> Well I gotta keep on your level so no need to play stupid as we are already there.
> 
> And good day to you too sir =]
> By the way I'm a guy.



lol, well played.

lol, make up your mind dammit...


----------



## Negrito (May 22, 2013)

Bonly said:


> Ahh so in short your own personal biased for Neji is your basis.



I'm just going to comment on this because I disagree how you responded to him. He isn't wrong. He's explaining how Juuken works and why it penetrates Gaara's Sand Armor and in all he said nothing was "fanboyism". His argument holds true.

Sand Armor requires chakra for the Sand to be kept up, Juuken destroys that, no chakra will be left to hold the sand and thus the Armor falls. That's a principle of Juuken.

Second way is also as valid as the first. If Neji so wishes, when/if Neji gets to touch Gaara he can use Juuken to strike through the chakra that is holding the Sand Armor, just like he did with Kidomaru. Once that happens Gaara is done, as even from that far a distance a few of Kido's organs were damaged. From point blank range Neji could shut down all of Gaara's organs.


----------

