# Mihawk vs. Big Mom



## MYJC (Aug 31, 2018)

Match takes place on Mihawk's Island. 

No prep, manga knowledge/reputation, everyone is IC. Big Mom gets Zeus and Prometheus as standard equipment. Who takes it and what diff?


Bonus scenario: Same, but Zeus and Prometheus are banned.


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## Raiden34 (Aug 31, 2018)

Big Mom.

Superior strength, durability, CoC and CoA and versatility due to her DF power.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 31, 2018)

Mihawk >= Shanks >= BM

Reactions: Like 2


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## Geralt-Singh (Aug 31, 2018)

Mihawk wins high to extreme diff

Reactions: Like 2


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## charles101 (Aug 31, 2018)

Either way for me. Mihawk should win bonus scenario in every try i think. Unless she can create Zeus/Prometheus during fight somehow, then either way in favour of Mihawk.


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## mr sean66 (Aug 31, 2018)

If mihawk isn’t careful and doesn’t have any knowledge of big moms fruit he might find his sword turned into a homie mid fight.

Reactions: Like 1


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## MYJC (Aug 31, 2018)

mr sean66 said:


> If mihawk isn’t careful and doesn’t have any knowledge of big moms fruit he might find his sword turned into a homie mid fight.



Doesn't Mihawk always coat his sword with CoA? 

I'd think that would prevent Devil Fruit shenanigans on it. Though the idea of that happening is pretty funny.


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## mr sean66 (Aug 31, 2018)

MYJC said:


> Doesn't Mihawk always coat his sword with CoA?
> 
> I'd think that would prevent Devil Fruit shenanigans on it. Though the idea of that happening is pretty funny.


At the very best he will
Be forced to always spend Haki to cover his sword at all times, and we already know haki has limits and you can run out, so if the fight gets dragged on mihawk will be forced to consistently use his haki on his sword,

On the other hand big mom also can lose weight as the fight gets dragged on, who knows if she is slightly more mobile when she is skinny, I’d like to think it’s like a 25% decrease in strenghth and defense and a 15% in mobility


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## Sumu (Aug 31, 2018)

A close fight, BM extreme diff


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## Fel1x (Aug 31, 2018)

lol this is so "Mihawk wanky"

BM will mid diff him for sure

Yeah, I know there are lots of Mihawk's fanboys here, but it's too much even for them

Even OL's Admiral gang is not that stubborn and fanboyish

PS. in before tier specialist attack

Reactions: Like 1


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## MYJC (Aug 31, 2018)

Fel1x said:


> lol this is so "Mihawk wanky"
> 
> BM will mid diff him for sure
> 
> ...



Does this also mean Big Mom would mid diff Shanks?

Reactions: Like 2


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## Fel1x (Aug 31, 2018)

MYJC said:


> Does this also mean Big Mom would mid diff Shanks?


yeah, and the sea monster from Luffy's childhood, that ate Shank's hand.

troll thread is so troll


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## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 31, 2018)

> BM will mid diff him for sure


Fel1x a Meme wanker 


cant handle Meme being the weakest yonko


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## Fel1x (Aug 31, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Fel1x a Meme wanker
> 
> 
> cant handle Meme being the weakest yonko


She is the weakest overall, but the strongest in terms of durability

and you can call me a Yonko wanker, mr. Admiral wanker

and yeah, the weakest Yonko >= Akainu, > other admirals  and >>> Mihawk


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## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 31, 2018)

Fel1x said:


> *weakest Yonko* >= Akainu, > other admirals and *>>> Shanks*


???


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## Fel1x (Aug 31, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> ???


lol, fixed


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## TheWiggian (Aug 31, 2018)

Mihawk high diff. Big Mom got nothing going for her.


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## xmysticgohanx (Aug 31, 2018)

Mihawk extreme or high


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## Exping (Aug 31, 2018)

vista = mihawk > big mom apparently


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## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 31, 2018)

Mihawk = Shanks+Vista > Big Mom


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## El Hit (Aug 31, 2018)

mihawk>=mom>shirahoshi>shanks


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## gold ace (Sep 1, 2018)

Big Mom comfortably mid diffs her when she has Zeus and everything by her side.

If you take those things away, Mihawk might be able to push her to high diff.

Reactions: Like 1


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## JoJo (Sep 1, 2018)

lol...zoro's final villain and the WSS being weaker than a fodder Yonkou 

mihawk mid high diff


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## Dunno (Sep 1, 2018)

WSS > WSSS > Big Mom

Mihawk high diffs.

Reactions: Like 1


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## GilDLax (Sep 1, 2018)

Is Mihawk's sword really always in CoA? The blackness of Hardening is the shiny kind which it's not. Pretty sure it's really black (it's in the name of the sword), like Sanji's black pants, that may make it hard to distinguish.

If it really was CoA, Mihawk should have cut Buggy LOL.


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## Dunno (Sep 1, 2018)

GilDLax said:


> Is Mihawk's sword really always in CoA? The blackness of Hardening is the shiny kind which it's not. Pretty sure it's really black (it's in the name of the sword), like Sanji's black pants, that may make it hard to distinguish.
> 
> If it really was CoA, Mihawk should have cut Buggy LOL.


Mihawk did cut Buggy. A lot of times.


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## Gledania (Sep 1, 2018)

Dunno said:


> Mihawk did cut Buggy. A lot of times.



I think he meant cutting him "for real". Giving him damages.


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## JoJo (Sep 1, 2018)

@Erkan12 stay mad kid lol


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## Dunno (Sep 1, 2018)

Gledania said:


> I think he meant cutting him "for real". Giving him damages.


I think so too.


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## Gledania (Sep 1, 2018)

Dunno said:


> I think so too.



Damn ... I never catch when you're joking/being sarcastic and when you're not .


You should use smilies more often. You never do ,mate.


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## Dunno (Sep 1, 2018)

Gledania said:


> Damn ... I never catch when you're joking/being sarcastic and when you're not .
> 
> 
> You should use smilies more often. You never do ,mate.


Can't make it too easy.


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## Gohara (Sep 1, 2018)

Yonkou character wins that match up in my opinion because of superior physical strength, defense, versatility, and haki.


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## Ruse (Sep 1, 2018)

Mihawk high extreme diff


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## trance (Sep 1, 2018)

mihawk takes it after a very good fight


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## Fel1x (Sep 1, 2018)

what feats does Mihawk has? that many people there treat him like a god. Strongest swordsman title and that's all? Ofcourse he is the strongest because there are no swordsman among Yonko and admirals

all he has is survivng Don Kreig's attack, defeating Zoro and fighting equally with Vista who is not even a FM.

Even Itachi wasn't that overrated


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## El Hit (Sep 1, 2018)

Fel1x said:


> what feats does Mihawk has? that many people there treat him like a god. Strongest swordsman title and that's all? Ofcourse he is the strongest because there are no swordsman among Yonko and admirals
> 
> all he has is survivng Don Kreig's attack, defeating Zoro and fighting equally with Vista who is not even a FM.
> 
> Even Itachi wasn't that overrated


He is saved to be zoro's final oponent, a character that is second in the protagonist's crew and always at the level of luffy, luffy does not want to be a shitty yonkou he wants to be pirate king same with zoro he does not want to be a shitty yonkou so he wants to defeat Mihawk to be something better.


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## xmysticgohanx (Sep 1, 2018)

Fel1x said:


> what feats does Mihawk has? that many people there treat him like a god. Strongest swordsman title and that's all? Ofcourse he is the strongest because there are no swordsman among Yonko and admirals
> 
> all he has is survivng Don Kreig's attack, defeating Zoro and fighting equally with Vista who is not even a FM.
> 
> Even Itachi wasn't that overrated


 Zoro's final opponent

WSS in the same manga as Shanks, Rayleigh, Fujitora, Cracker, Vista, Big Mom, etc.

In Oda's eyes, is able to be in a 1v1v1 with WB and Shanks


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## Fel1x (Sep 1, 2018)

Charmander said:


> He is saved to be zoro's final oponent, a character that is second in the protagonist's crew and always at the level of luffy, luffy does not want to be a shitty yonkou he wants to be pirate king same with zoro he does not want to be a shitty yonkou so he wants to defeat Mihawk to be something better.





xmysticgohanx said:


> Zoro's final opponent



not necessary his final opponent. It could be Shiliew or someone from Gorosei.



xmysticgohanx said:


> WSS in the same manga as Shanks, Rayleigh, Fujitora, Cracker, Vista, Big Mom, etc.



Yeah, WSS, but others are not swordsmen. Just the guys with swords, whose main power is their DF/Haki


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## El Hit (Sep 1, 2018)

Fel1x said:


> not necessary his final opponent. It could be Shiliew or someone from Gorosei.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, WSS, but others are not swordsmen. Just the guys with swords, whose main power is their DF/Haki


He alone is Zoro's goal, if shillew is his final opponent it will be a less important win and much easier than his mihawk fight,  because his dream would be already complete, his story arc would have ended and he would be just supporting luffy in his dream. Dreams are very important in one piece and Zoro's is getting Mihawk's title


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## Dunno (Sep 1, 2018)

Fel1x said:


> Yeah, WSS, but others are not swordsmen. Just the guys with swords, whose main power is their DF/Haki


Except Shanks has used his sword every time he has clashed with a strong opponent, has swords on his Jolly Roger, used to duel a swordsman and has has his swordsmanship talked about, while no other fighting style has been mentioned. The probability that Shanks is a swordsman far outweighs the probability that he is a Haki sorcerer or a martial artist or whatever else you think he is. If you want to know why Mihawk is overrated according to you, you need to understand that it's because you are severely underestimating him.


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## Fel1x (Sep 1, 2018)

Charmander said:


> He alone is Zoro's goal, if shillew is his final opponent it will be a less important win and much easier than his mihawk fight,  because his dream would be already complete, his story arc would have ended and he would be just supporting luffy in his dream. Dreams are very important in one piece and Zoro's is getting Mihawk's title


yeah, I agree but this is nothing about Mihawk's current strength.



Dunno said:


> Except Shanks has used his sword every time he has clashed with a strong opponent, has swords on his Jolly Roger, used to duel a swordsman and has has his swordsmanship talked about, while no other fighting style has been mentioned. The probability that Shanks is a swordsman far outweighs the probability that he is a Haki sorcerer or a martial artist or whatever else you think he is. If you want to know why Mihawk is overrated according to you, you need to understand that it's because you are severely underestimating him.


Just the classic pirate flag. If your opinion based on that why doesn't Shanks has 2 swords?
Ok, even if he is. That means WB is a swordsman too. Bisento is the type of sword. So Mihawk>WB? Because of that stupid title that is Mihawk's fans last argument

It doesn't make any sense that Mihawk is Yonko level. Zoro's final opponent can't be Yonko level. Do you think that EoS Zoro will be that strong? maximum Admiral level

OK, now about current events. Vegapunk created something that will allow marines to drop shichibukai. So they want to throw away Yonko level guy? Or is he just not that strong as his fanboys think?

Ok, so Mihawk is WSS. But can he even stay alive after single punch from BM or Kaido? Yonko are the guys whose every stat at almost maximum level in OP.

All you have is his WSS title, his words that he doesn't want to fight onehanded Shanks and a pair of current Zoro's level swings. The guy just doesn't have any real feats still most of you think he will kill BM


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## Gledania (Sep 1, 2018)

Fel1x said:


> It doesn't make any sense that Mihawk is Yonko level. Zoro's final opponent can't be Yonko level. Do you think that EoS Zoro will be that strong? FM or maximum Admiral level



Depending of how strong was prime Rayleigh. He clashed (and wouned) with an admiral with a sword, wile admitting he didn't use it for years and was weakened from that time. This definitly put him above an admiral in his prime.

Assuming luffy will surpass roger , then Zoro will surpass Ray , Sanji suprass scopper ect ...  While luffy reach the PK level , Zoro rach the yonko one.

We don't know at what age will zoro reach his prime. Maybe another timeskip is needed.



Fel1x said:


> OK, now about current events. Vegapunk created something that will allow marines to drop shichibukai. So they want to throw away Yonko level guy? Or is he just not that strong as his fanboys think?



@Fel1x
The Shishibukai are one of the 3 pillar of strenght. If they can't beat at least ONE yonko level crew then why would Oda put them in par with the yonko ?

Yeah I know that the 4 Emp > 7 Shibukai. Exept the shishi are allies , while the yonko aren't, wich weaken their posistion.

One shishibukai most be equal to a yonko cause otherwise it doesn't make sens. The shishibukai at marineford didn't give the impression of going all out. THey were merely playing.

And if Vegapunk found something that can replace them , it means he found some weapon that is enough strong to defeat a yonko crew. But in the End , the one believing this is Fuji , we don't know if other agree with him.


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## Dunno (Sep 1, 2018)

Fel1x said:


> Just the classic pirate flag. If your opinion based on that why doesn't Shanks has 2 swords?
> Ok, even if he is. That means WB is a swordsman too. Bisento is the type of sword. So Mihawk>WB? Because of that stupid title that is Mihawk's fans last argument
> 
> It doesn't make any sense that Mihawk is Yonko level. Zoro's final opponent can't be Yonko level. Do you think that EoS Zoro will be that strong? maximum Admiral level
> ...



Shanks used 2 swords until he lost one of his arms, as we have seen in one of his flashbacks. Whitebeard wasn't a swordsman, since his main fighting style revolved around his DF.

We know that WB isn't a swordsman. Firstly, a bisento isn't a sword. Oda has never referred to it as a sword, and according to pretty much all sources, a bisento is a type of polearm. Also, WB hasn't exclusively used his Bisento when fighting strong opponents. He has mainly used his DF.

Why wouldn't Zoro's opponent be Yonkou level? Old Rayleigh was as strong as Kizaru, and that's in his old age and after 20 years of inactivity.

Mihawk isn't a marine. The Shichibukai only rarely help the WG out, and even then they do it in whatever way they feel like. If you just look at the MF battle, you'll see that most of them were doing their own thing. On the contrary, they have caused a lot of problems by abusing their status.

Chopper was totally fine after a punch from BM and you are asking if Mihawk will be one-shot by her? I hope you understand how ridiculous that question is.

Not the title. The title is important, but it's not the most important argument. The most important thing to consider is that Mihawk is the strongest swordsman in the world, as we can clearly read in the manga. The only way you can consider it to be a mere title is if you don't consider the text in the manga to be canon, and if that's the case, you are not talking about a manga, you're talking about a picture book.

If were talking about feats, Mihawk's casual mountain cutter completely dwarfed both of blood lusted BM's named slashes.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 1, 2018)

Fel1x said:


> others are not swordsmen. Just the guys with swords, whose main power is their DF/Haki

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gledania (Sep 1, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


>



EoS WSS zoro > EoS Law


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## Fel1x (Sep 1, 2018)

Dunno said:


> Shanks used 2 swords until he lost one of his arms, as we have seen in one of his flashbacks. Whitebeard wasn't a swordsman, since his main fighting style revolved around his DF.
> 
> We know that WB isn't a swordsman. Firstly, a bisento isn't a sword. Oda has never referred to it as a sword, and according to pretty much all sources, a bisento is a type of polearm. Also, WB hasn't exclusively used his Bisento when fighting strong opponents. He has mainly used his DF.
> 
> ...


yeah, you are right. I just don't remember this flashback, but checked it.

But have you ever seen Shanks' full fight? No. All you've seen is him blocking with a sword. He may be even fighting with CoO mainly.

I don't question Mihawk being WSS, I question Shanks being a swordsman. There was always a problem about titles. WB is the strongest human, while Kaido is the strongest creature. Mihawk is the WSS, but who are other swordsmen?

But even if Shanks is really a swordsman , Mihawk's title was stated very long time ago, before even Haki, awakening, advanced haki. We can't rely too much on this. And Mihawk declining duel with Shanks in their friendly conversation doesn't mean anything.


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## Gledania (Sep 1, 2018)

Fel1x said:


> But even if Shanks is really a swordsman , Mihawk's title was stated very long time ago, before even Haki, awakening, advanced haki. We can't rely too much on this. And Mihawk declining duel with Shanks in their friendly conversation doesn't mean anything.



I agree with you about him possibly being a devil fruit user. But if not then Mihawk shouldn't have the title if shanks is stronger.


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## Fel1x (Sep 1, 2018)

Gledania said:


> I agree with you about him possibly being a devil fruit user. But if not then Mihawk shouldn't have the title if shanks is stronger.


not the DF user, just some yet unseen Haki powers user. Even now noone ever showed so advanced CoO. and it was very casual walk by Shanks


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## MO (Sep 1, 2018)

big mom wins. I dont see shanks being stronger than her so mihawk being stronger than shanks has nothing to do with my ranking. She tankier, likely physically superior, has a pretty powerfull devil fruit to which she can control elemants with.


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## Gledania (Sep 1, 2018)

Fel1x said:


> not the DF user



The last time he jumped at sea it was 12 years before so it's not impossible he eated one.


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## Fel1x (Sep 1, 2018)

Gledania said:


> The last time he jumped at sea it was 12 years before so it's not impossible he eated one.


yep, anything can happen, but from my point of view it doesn't really into his character.


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## Kylo Ren (Sep 1, 2018)

Big Mom wins High Diff.


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## GilDLax (Sep 2, 2018)

Dunno said:


> Firstly, a bisento isn't a sword. Oda has never referred to it as a sword


He did. Just recently when Luffy and Tama's Tengu sensei talked. In that panel about the Graded Swords we clearly saw a bisento blade...


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## GilDLax (Sep 2, 2018)

Mihawk's being Zolo's final opponent is just headcanon.
Zolo's dream is WSS, not surpassing Mihawk itself. It's just that because Mihawk happens to be currently holding that title so Zolo aims to defeat him. Ergo if another person beats Mihawk and gains that title then Zolo will just go fight that person (although before that he would probably still fight the WSecondSS aka Mihawk anw).

Second, at best you can only say Mihawk is Zolo's final sword-using opponent. Who said Zolo cannot fight someone else after that?


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## Gledania (Sep 2, 2018)

GilDLax said:


> Mihawk's being Zolo's final opponent is just headcanon.
> Zolo's dream is WSS, not surpassing Mihawk itself. It's just that because Mihawk happens to be currently holding that title so Zolo aims to defeat him. Ergo if another person beats Mihawk and gains that title then Zolo will just go fight that person (although before that he would probably still fight the WSecondSS aka Mihawk anw).
> 
> Second, at best you can only say Mihawk is Zolo's final sword-using opponent. Who said Zolo cannot fight someone else after that?



True , I'm from the people who believe it would be better if mihawk die after fighting someone else , and zoro beat that person.

I just hope it's not fucking shiliew xD


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## Dunno (Sep 2, 2018)

GilDLax said:


> He did. Just recently when Luffy and Tama's Tengu sensei talked. In that panel about the Graded Swords we clearly saw a bisento blade...


"There are many blades (swords, spears, etc.)..." Oda referred to blades weapons, and a bisento is a bladed weapon. He specifically stated that it included swords, spears and other weapons as well though. I agree that it's kind of fuzzy, but either way, even if Whitebeard was using a sword, he wouldn't have been a swordsman.


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## Extravlad (Sep 2, 2018)

Let's just say those baboons will have a LOT of meat to feast on

Reactions: Like 1


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## GilDLax (Sep 2, 2018)

Dunno said:


> "There are many blades (swords, spears, etc.)..." Oda referred to blades weapons, and a bisento is a bladed weapon. He specifically stated that it included swords, spears and other weapons as well though.


And in the same panel he said the graded swords are chosen among those blades. In other words all of them blades are deemed to be types of swords anw. Otherwise he would have said ''there are many swords in the world''


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## Dunno (Sep 2, 2018)

GilDLax said:


> And in the same panel he said the graded swords are chosen among those blades. In other words all of them blades are deemed to be types of swords anw. Otherwise he would have said ''there are many swords in the world''


Of course all swords have blades. Thus, the blades for the graded swords are chosen from all those blades. This does not mean that all the blades that they are chosen from are swords. He could have made it more clear by stating it as you propose, but that would have lessened the hype around them. Now, it is implied that the graded swords are of higher quality than any other blade in the world, not only any other sword.


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## GilDLax (Sep 2, 2018)

Dunno said:


> Of course all swords have blades. Thus, the blades for the graded swords are chosen from all those blades. This does not mean that all the blades that they are chosen from are swords. He could have made it more clear by stating it as you propose, but that would have lessened the hype around them. Now, it is implied that the graded swords are of higher quality than any other blade in the world, not only any other sword.


So you mean for some reasons all the great smiths in One Piece world end up making only swords or they would only use their actual skills for swords and whenever someone else asks/pays them to make non-sword types of tool, they purposely forge it worse than normal? To the point that all the graded ones are swords? Other weapons aren't allowed to be good or something? Is there even a need for such hype? 

And then if the selection pool is blades, it makes more sense to call them grade blades even if all the best ones end up being swords...


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## gold ace (Sep 2, 2018)

Dunno said:


> WSS > WSSS > Big Mom
> 
> Mihawk high diffs.



Shame that someone with a Garp avi is delusioned like this =/


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## Dunno (Sep 2, 2018)

GilDLax said:


> So you mean for some reasons all the great smiths in One Piece world end up making only swords or they would only use their actual skills for swords and whenever someone else asks/pays them to make non-sword types of tool, they purposely forge it worse than normal? To the point that all the graded ones are swords? Other weapons aren't allowed to be good or something? Is there even a need for such hype?
> 
> And then if the selection pool is blades, it makes more sense to call them grade blades even if all the best ones end up being swords...


Pretty much. The sword has a special place in Japanese culture. The graded swords are based on the Wazamono, which you can see here: . As far as I know, there are no other such ranking regarding other weapons.


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## Dunno (Sep 2, 2018)

gold ace said:


> Shame that someone with a Garp avi is delusioned like this =/


Which one of the following statements is delusional:
1. Mihawk is the strongest swordsman in the world. 
2. Shanks is a swordsman.
3. Shanks is stronger than Big Mom.


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## Gledania (Sep 2, 2018)

Dunno said:


> Which one of the following statements is delusional:
> 1. Mihawk is the strongest swordsman in the world.
> 2. Shanks is a swordsman.
> 3. Shanks is stronger than Big Mom.



I believe mihawk is the only Shishibukai that deserve the yonko level (since they are the 3rd pillar , they should be one yonko level fighter at least) . But nothing go against the Idea that shanks POSSIBLY have a devil fruit or something else. As much as I often disagree with @Erkan12 his point remain valid. We don't know much about shanks and comparing him to mihawk now is useless.


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## gold ace (Sep 2, 2018)

Dunno said:


> Which one of the following statements is delusional:
> 1. Mihawk is the strongest swordsman in the world.
> 2. Shanks is a swordsman.
> 3. Shanks is stronger than Big Mom.



None. 

WSS > WSSS is the delusion


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## Gledania (Sep 2, 2018)

gold ace said:


> *WSSS*



Wtf is this???


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## Dunno (Sep 2, 2018)

Gledania said:


> I believe mihawk is the only Shishibukai that deserve the yonko level (since they are the 3rd pillar , they should be one yonko level fighter at least) . But nothing go against the Idea that shanks POSSIBLY have a devil fruit or something else. As much as I often disagree with @Erkan12 his point remain valid. We don't know much about shanks and comparing him to mihawk now is useless.


Of course we don't *know* that Shanks is a swordsman, but we can still make educated guesses, especially since we know that Shanks was opposed to eating a DF, as seen in the first arc. Comparing Shanks to Mihawk is much easier to do than to compare for example Zoro or Kid to anyone. 



gold ace said:


> None.
> 
> WSS > WSSS is the delusion


So you are saying that I am delusional because I think that the strongest swordsman in the world is stronger than the second strongest swordsman in the world? Are you sure you have thought that through?


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## gold ace (Sep 2, 2018)

Dunno said:


> So you are saying that I am delusional because I think that the strongest swordsman in the world is stronger than the second strongest swordsman in the world? Are you sure you have thought that through?



Yes


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## Gohara (Sep 2, 2018)

Dunno said:


> a bisento isn't a sword. Oda has never referred to it as a sword, and according to pretty much all sources, a bisento is a type of polearm.



A bisento is both definable as a polearm and a sword.



Dunno said:


> Also, WB hasn't exclusively used his Bisento when fighting strong opponents.



True however it is also that Whitebeard has had more opportunity to show distinctive skills whereas Shanks has barely done anything in action thus far.



Dunno said:


> Chopper was totally fine after a punch from BM and you are asking if Mihawk will be one-shot by her? I hope you understand how ridiculous that question is.



It isn't a punch.  If it is then Chopper's defensive abilities to diffuse offensive techniques in that form is a lot more impressive than any fans give it credit for as that same character easily sends Jinbe flying.  Also that character easily brushes off gear 4th.



Dunno said:


> Not the title. The title is important, but it's not the most important argument. The most important thing to consider is that Mihawk is the strongest swordsman in the world, as we can clearly read in the manga.



There are a lot of arguments why Shanks doesn't necessarily have to be included.  However I don't know why it can't simply be that Mihawk is the strongest at being a swordsman and that swordsmen who use more than swordsmanship can't be superior in combined skills.



Dunno said:


> If were talking about feats, Mihawk's casual mountain cutter completely dwarfed both of blood lusted BM's named slashes.



A slash from a nerfed version her character's sword cracks a mountain from a long distance.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 2, 2018)

Meme sword atk was underwhelming


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 2, 2018)

and Jinbei tanked it lul


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## Gledania (Sep 2, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> and Jinbei tanked it lul



Jimbei yonko level


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## GilDLax (Sep 3, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> and Jinbei tanked it lul


Jinbe did the same to Akainu's magma fist and later took another, after days of being tortured in Impel Down...here he is pretty much 100% whereas BM is weakened a lot so hardly a reason to think Meme is unimpressive.


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## Richard Lionheart (Sep 3, 2018)

Mihawk lacks the hype and the feats to defeat BM.

If he was truly comparable to Yonkos or even stronger than them, then it would be mentioned. Besides having the WSS title and slashing a giant iceberg there is nothing going for him. Vista wouldnt be able to stop Big Mom, if we are going to compare fights.

I am not saying Mihawk cant defeat Big Mom, but as it is now, I see no reason to believe that he can until he shows more of his strength.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Nox (Sep 3, 2018)

Her status as Yonko implies her peers are Whitebeard, Blackbeard, Kaido and Shanks. His status was WSS implies Mihawk's is peerless. This includes swordsmen like Shanks, Rayleigh, Fujitora, Kizaru. I don't know about you but WSM and WSC are all encompassing titles relative to WSS. If we observe approach this in an isolated manner, this battle is MUM's to lose. Mihawk and his fans need to prove 

1. Shanks is superior to MUM (she only acknowledged WB) 
2. MUM is predominantly a swords-woman & her arsenal is crippled without it. 
3. Mihawk can fight and defeat powerful characters. As per Law, Yonkos are always in contention. Giving MUM the benefit as we've seen what happens when a Yonko crew lacks a powerful figurehead at the helm. Meanwhile Mihawk hasn't had a fight worth lick in 12 years. As his insistence on staying in Paradise means NW characters cannot challenge him. 


Until someone can dispute and provide canonical proof answering the claim above and not on what Zoro is supposed to surpass - which irrelevant. MUM wins. Unless some variable like getting hungry comes into the picture.


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## Gledania (Sep 3, 2018)

Astro said:


> Her status as Yonko implies her peers are Whitebeard, Blackbeard, Kaido and Shanks. His status was WSS implies Mihawk's is peerless. This includes swordsmen like Shanks, Rayleigh, Fujitora, Kizaru. I don't know about you but WSM and WSC are all encompassing titles relative to WSS. If we observe approach this in an isolated manner, this battle is MUM's to lose. Mihawk and his fans need to prove
> 
> 1. Shanks is superior to MUM (she only acknowledged WB)
> 2. MUM is predominantly a swords-woman & her arsenal is crippled without it.
> ...



Kaido>Bm > Shanks



If you believe otherwise then suck your own dick.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 3, 2018)

*there is no way* Shanks will be weaker than Meme




and that makes it so Mihawk >= Shanks ~ meme


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## Gledania (Sep 3, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> *there is no way* Shanks will be weaker than Meme
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The guy lost his hand to a sea monster.

Bm was throwing giant when she was 8 ....

Go Tier specialist your ass btw.


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## Fel1x (Sep 3, 2018)

Gledania said:


> The guy lost his hand to a sea monster.
> 
> Bm was throwing giant when she was 8 ....


well. Luffy was a weak crybaby who couldn't even use his DF. EoS Luffy has a chances to be WSM

it just BM has her unique strength from very start, while Shanks was a pretty normal pirate


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## Gledania (Sep 3, 2018)

Fel1x said:


> well. Luffy was a weak crybaby who couldn't even use his DF. EoS Luffy have a chances to be WSM
> 
> it just BM has her unique strength from very start, while Shanks was a pretty normal pirate



I know. I don't say he can't be above her. I say she can be too.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 3, 2018)

Gledania said:


> The guy lost his hand to a sea monster.


that was before he became a haki god


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## Gledania (Sep 3, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> that was before he became a haki god



Doesn't change the fact that Mihawk > Shanks. 



....





*Spoiler*: __ 



And EoS Zoro> EoS Law


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## Fel1x (Sep 3, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> that was before he became a haki god


you are just jealous cause admirals don't have CoС. Their will is not that strong


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 3, 2018)

Fel1x said:


> you are just jealous cause admirals don't have* CoO*. Their will is not that strong


I think you mean CoC, genius 


and they dont need it to battle yonkou 

neither did Garp need CoC to go after Roger


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 3, 2018)

CoC aka "fodder control haki"


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## Gledania (Sep 3, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> CoC aka "fodder control haki"



Even FM got CoC , Admirals couldn't fall more than that.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 3, 2018)

Kata can use all the CoC he wants as he gets fisted


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## Gledania (Sep 3, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Kata can use all the CoC he wants as he gets fisted



Yeah and kizaru wounded by an old retired man.


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## Fel1x (Sep 3, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> I think you mean CoC, genius
> 
> 
> and they dont need it to battle yonkou
> ...


yeah, yeah, make yourself believe it. Admirals are not unique and they are replaceble, ofcourse they don't have CoC. One admiral down - 1 new admiral in your "admiral gang"


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 3, 2018)

at least there are still 3 admirals + FA

soon there wont be any yonkou left at all, only Teach vs Luffy


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## Gledania (Sep 3, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> at least there are still 3 admirals + FA
> 
> soon there wont be any yonkou left at all, only Teach vs Luffy



Don't worry , ben beckmam + marco will take care of kiza. No need for yonko to waste their time with them.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 3, 2018)

Gledania said:


> marco


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## Gledania (Sep 3, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


>



Stop crying.


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## Fel1x (Sep 3, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> at least there are still 3 admirals + FA
> 
> soon there wont be any yonkou left at all, only Teach vs Luffy


Noone interested in admirals that's why they are alive. As I said they are replaceble, so there is no point of hunting one down.
If all current Yonko will go together to new MF, they will wreck this place in an hour with all admirals laying dead. Because every single Yonko > Akainu> rest of admirals


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 3, 2018)

Fel1x said:


> If all current Yonko will go toghether


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 3, 2018)

yonkou fans afraid that 2 of them going down this arc 

Shanks is next


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## Fel1x (Sep 3, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


>


all your "tier speacialist" can't deny the truth. just give up, man. Yonko > admirals. And it's canon.



Shiba D. Inu said:


> yonkou fans afraid that 2 of them going down this arc
> 
> Shanks is next


well, it's for the progress of the story. I don't mind it. admirals will be down too. Well, your Akainu-god-sama for sure


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 3, 2018)

Akainu will be the final villain of the final war


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## Fel1x (Sep 3, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Akainu will be the final villain of the final war


say hi to Imu and BB. Akainu don't have the power to be the FV. nothing against EoS Luffy and EoS BB.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gledania (Sep 3, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Akainu will be the final villain of the final war



He will got his ass kicked by sabo. A big revenge for his brother. He will reach the ultimate heat and turn his fire into a white fire(Awakening form) a fire stronger than magma  ....


Meanwhile Luffy and EoS teach will surpass primebeard and fight somewhere.



*Spoiler*: __ 



After law sacrifice himself of course

Reactions: Like 2


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## GilDLax (Sep 3, 2018)

I don't understand. 

If Mihawk is really Yonkou level and people think Yonkou >> Admirals, then how come they think Vista is weaker than Marco and Jozu when Vista at least had the feat of fighting Mihawk when the other two ''only'' fought Admirals? Vista wasn't even beaten or scratched and Mihawk recommended they should stop to go do something else. Is it just because Vista is Division 5's Commander? 

If the Division number means that much then another question is why is Ace not stronger than Jozu? We all know Ace just suffered from being killed too early when Oda didn't think through his Haki system yet (no one even used Hardening in the Marine Ford War...).


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## nmwn93 (Sep 3, 2018)

Im sorry. Big mom. High diff. Stop playing these chopper (reindeer) games. Mihawk is great but i saw him have an even bout with Vista. He cant hurt zeus or Prometheus. Big mom i say is easily stronger than him if she uses her hat... I dont see Mihawk winning the clash. Also is he fire and lightning proof? I think the sleeping on big mom is getting ridiculous.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 3, 2018)

Mihawk was dicking around whole MF, he was killing boredom

admirals were actually serious and doing their job


also, its completely unknown if Vista is weaker than Jozu or not


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 3, 2018)

I have no idea why Vista gets brought up when we *know for a fact* that Mihawk > Vista, since any WSS > non-WSS Vista


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 3, 2018)

GilDLax said:


> Yonkou >> Admirals


only yonkou wankers think that

Reactions: Like 1


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## nmwn93 (Sep 3, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Mihawk was dicking around whole MF, he was killing boredom
> 
> admirals were actually serious and doing their job
> 
> ...


Yeah... By that same token big mom was pussyfooting around with g4 luffy. He literally is NOTHING TO HER.


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## Gledania (Sep 3, 2018)

GilDLax said:


> I don't understand.
> 
> If Mihawk is really Yonkou level and people think Yonkou >> Admirals, then how come they think Vista is weaker than Marco and Jozu when Vista at least had the feat of fighting Mihawk when the other two ''only'' fought Admirals? Vista wasn't even beaten or scratched and Mihawk recommended they should stop to go do something else. Is it just because Vista is Division 5's Commander?
> 
> If the Division number means that much then another question is why is Ace not stronger than Jozu? We all know Ace just suffered from being killed too early when Oda didn't think through his Haki system yet (no one even used Hardening in the Marine Ford War...).



The division number doesn 't  matter , oda said it in an Sbs.

As for for vista and mihawk , well :

Cause neither of them seemed to fight with all what they had. And we don't know how much time they clashed. Mihawk is the kind of guy that let a weaker oppenent show what he can do and finish him.(that's what he did with zoro). Maybe he wanted to let the fun long more , he was facing someone strong enough to give him some fun. He had no reason to fight 100 %  neither oneshoting him.

Zoro faced pica swordmanship with only two swords , without putting his bandanna. (At first , before pica started running like a coward) He could have killed him with pound phienix and yet wanted to play with him.

Mihawk is not loyal to the wg. 
50% if the field was full of allies , he couldn't possibly go all out and wound allies ( He can cut giant icebergs from far).

He was facing whitebeard crew strongest swordman. If he kill him who will he face then ? The old dying wounded WB ? 
Others who are not swordmans ?

As for feats , he cutted an iceberg easily without giving the impression of going all out.

The only one who gived similar or better feat was whitebeard.

Now just to be clear : I'm not arguing about him being equal stronger (or wathever) with shanks. I'm arguing about him being admiral/yonko level is still possible. If there is no yonko level fighter between the 7WL , there are not one of the pillars anymore.


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## nmwn93 (Sep 3, 2018)

The problem here is the over estimation of mihawk as it relates to big mom. Ive yet to see big mom get so much as a scratch. Her haki is RIDICULOUS. In her right mind and full power mihawk dosent have enough. She has her devil fruit. She can shoot off epbalf spears while her sun & lightning attack independently. Hawk eye cant deal with zeus or Prometheus. He also cant deal with her sword napolean BCUZ he has no soul power. We can speculate that big mom can turn his sword into a homie which if possible hes more fucked than he already was. Can he pierce the iorn ballon? I have a hard time thinking that he can.


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## GilDLax (Sep 3, 2018)

Gledania said:


> The division number doesn 't matter , oda said it in an Sbs.


He said the Division Commanders' names don't matter. Just fun facts cause he didn't put it in the manga.


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## GilDLax (Sep 3, 2018)

Gledania said:


> As for for vista and mihawk , well :
> 
> Cause neither of them seemed to fight with all what they had. And we don't know how much time they clashed. Mihawk is the kind of guy that let a weaker oppenent show what he can do and finish him.(that's what he did with zoro). Maybe he wanted to let the fun long more , he was facing someone strong enough to give him some fun. He had no reason to fight 100 % neither oneshoting him.
> 
> ...


We don't know how much time Jozu vs Aokiji and Marco vs Kizaru either. The two Admirals also were never fighting anymore seriously than Mihawk...Aokiji got a cut lip from being blindsided by Jozu and Kizaru was, well, perfectly scratchless.

And the question still remains: if Mihawk is Yonkou level which people think >> Admirals then Vista's feat is still more impressive than Marco and Jozu.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gledania (Sep 3, 2018)

GilDLax said:


> And the question still remains: if Mihawk is Yonkou level which people think >> Admirals then Vista's feat is still more impressive than Marco and Jozu.



If we assume both vista and Mihawk were full serious. Yes. If we assume Mihawk couldn't give more , and wanted to beat him with all he had , yes.

If we assume the fight didn't last long and it was an low clash between them the same way it was between Pica and zoro , then no.

Again. I'm not sure were to put mihawk level. I'm saying him being near yonko level is still possible. No shishibukai (exept moria) was fighting full serious there. None was injured , and none was loyale to the WG (exept maybe Kuma). If mihawk killed Vista what will he do next ? Enjoy killing fodders ?



GilDLax said:


> He said the Division Commanders' names don't matter. Just fun facts cause he didn't put it in the manga.



Sbs 59 :

Oda k, I'll explain a little about the Whitebeard Pirates. First, captain Whitebeard and the 16 commanders. All 16 commanders, despite numbers and ages have the same rank. All the same. *Whitebeard Pirates are just split in 16 groups and the division number does not indicate strength.*



GilDLax said:


> We don't know how much time Jozu vs Aokiji and Marco vs Kizaru either.



It didn't last a lot. 

Marineford is not a good arc to determine strenght level. Everything was off panel and unclear. If you want to know how strong anyone can be , well , we need to see a full serious fight like punk hasard.


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## Fel1x (Sep 3, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> I have no idea why Vista gets brought up when we *know for a fact* that Mihawk > Vista, since any WSS > non-WSS Vista


yes, Mihawk surely stronger, but the main point is that the difference between WSS and Vista is not that huge. And if it is so, Mihawk is not that close to an even weakest Yonko


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## Gledania (Sep 3, 2018)

The last war will definitely answer all this questions. 

But the way I see Big mom will die before wano ends.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 3, 2018)

Fel1x said:


> the difference between WSS and Vista is not that huge


fake news


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## GilDLax (Sep 3, 2018)

Gledania said:


> If mihawk killed Vista what will he do next ? Enjoy killing fodders ?


I don't know but he apparently didn't love fighting Vista that much and suggested they should stop to do something else...shouldn't he keep fighting Vista according to your logic then? 



Gledania said:


> Sbs 59 :
> 
> Oda k, I'll explain a little about the Whitebeard Pirates. First, captain Whitebeard and the 16 commanders. All 16 commanders, despite numbers and ages have the same rank. All the same. *Whitebeard Pirates are just split in 16 groups and the division number does not indicate strength.*


Oh, that one. I thought you meant the one in SBS volume 58 where Oda listed all of the Commanders' names. Well, that was a bad translation LOL. No ownder why I didn't think you meant it.

In Viz official Oda said they don't have *authority* over each other (not about strength). Though Marco is still considered the de-factor leader for whatever reason.




Gledania said:


> It didn't last a lot.
> 
> Marineford is not a good arc to determine strenght level. Everything was off panel and unclear. If you want to know how strong anyone can be , well , we need to see a full serious fight like punk hasard.



Hence my question: why do people think Vista is weaker than Jozu and Marco?


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## Gledania (Sep 3, 2018)

GilDLax said:


> I don't know but he apparently didn't love fighting Vista that much and suggested they should stop to do something else...shouldn't he keep fighting Vista according to your logic then?



The marines were going to sink the frozen place and trap white-beard. there was an Emergency if I remember. 



GilDLax said:


> Hence my question: why do people think Vista is weaker than Jozu and Marco?



I don't know. Marco is the first mate so I put him above the rest but for Jozu and vista I don't know.

I have a french version of tome 59 and the Sbs said it doesn't show their strength.


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## GilDLax (Sep 3, 2018)

And why do people think Shanks>BM? The Yonkou are in stalemate but that doesn't mean they are exactly equal to each other. They just have to be close enough in strength so that no one is carelessly wage war against another in fear of a third/fourth Emperor taking advantage of their weakened state after war. 
Second, it's their whole force that are in stalemate, not necessarily the Yonkou themselves. That's why we have 2 of them with World Strongest titles.

For all we know Shanks is the weakest Emperor but his crew is the strongest to compensate.

I know Meme got the hunger pang flaw so I guess Shanks would win if she got crazy after 2 days of fighting and started weakening but in OBD she wouldn't, right?


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## Bernkastel (Sep 4, 2018)

Aside the wanking from fanboys of both sides which is disgusting as usual ,if mihawk has strong enough haki to resist having his weapon to napoleon v2. It could go either way.


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## Gohara (Sep 5, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> sword atk was underwhelming



How so?  



Shiba D. Inu said:


> and Jinbei tanked it



The one that sent Jinbe flying?


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## MYJC (Sep 5, 2018)

GilDLax said:


> And why do people think Shanks>BM? The Yonkou are in stalemate but that doesn't mean they are exactly equal to each other. They just have to be close enough in strength so that no one is carelessly wage war against another in fear of a third/fourth Emperor taking advantage of their weakened state after war.
> Second, it's their whole force that are in stalemate, not necessarily the Yonkou themselves. That's why we have 2 of them with World Strongest titles.
> 
> For all we know Shanks is the weakest Emperor but his crew is the strongest to compensate.
> ...



Honestly, the problem here is that even though we know a good deal about Big Mom, we know almost nothing about Shanks' abilities other than CoC and reputation. How she would do 1v1 against Shanks is pretty much just a guess because there's almost nothing to go on.


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## Red Admiral (Aug 26, 2019)

since they both are legit top tiers ... and Big Mom have more feats and better power set as of now ... Big Mom win


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## Canute87 (Aug 26, 2019)

Big Mom will probably overwhelm him. 


She's currently fighting kaidou, i mean her power is legit.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Law (Aug 26, 2019)

Mihawk both rounds. Extreme and high diff or so respectively.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 26, 2019)

big mom is the weakest yonkou


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## Kinjin (Aug 26, 2019)

Closing due to necroing.

Reactions: Like 1


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