# Who's faster: The Flash vs. Goku



## Renegade (Apr 22, 2006)

I think The Flash is, cuz he can move at the speed of light, and he specializes in speed.


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## Id (Apr 22, 2006)

Kingdom Come Flash  analy rapes Goku.


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## Comic Book Guy (Apr 22, 2006)

Current Flash can exceed lightspeed.

Also, I think that he can steal speed from other objects and add it to his own. But let me check the issues.


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## Level 70 Orc Ninja (Apr 22, 2006)

Id said:
			
		

> Kingdom Come Flash  analy rapes Goku.



...without him even knowing :amazed


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## BladeofTheChad (Apr 22, 2006)

listen, The Flash is the strongest person ever, when he is at his best....im talking non Slade impaled Flash...but Anti-Monitor killing flash(that Pre-Supes couldnt kill) Wally West>>>>>>God.


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## Aruarian (Apr 22, 2006)

God could will speed out of existence and the Flash'd be fucked.


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## Gambitz (Apr 22, 2006)

goku wins 2 words (intsant transmission)


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## Gaara'sOnlyGirl (Apr 22, 2006)

... looks like m the only Goku fan here o.o HE CAN TELLEPORT! seriously; there is nothing faster then that... nothing.


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## Scorpio3.14 (Apr 22, 2006)

Gaara'sOnlyGirl said:
			
		

> ... looks like m the only Goku fan here o.o HE CAN TELLEPORT! seriously; there is nothing faster then that... nothing.



Actually Flash has run faster then instantanous travel before.

Plus, Flash can run so fast he arrives at his destination before he even started running in the first place.


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## Gaara'sOnlyGirl (Apr 22, 2006)

... o.o obviously were thinking of two diffrent flashes.....


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## Perfect Moron (Apr 22, 2006)

drunken master said:
			
		

> goku wins 2 words (intsant transmission)





			
				Gaara'sOnlyGirl said:
			
		

> ... looks like m the only Goku fan here o.o HE CAN TELLEPORT! seriously; there is nothing faster then that... nothing.



Not only that's not speed, but he can only teleport to a place where can feel someone's ki. And in a race, Flash would get to the finish line before Goku is done bringing his fingers to his forehead.


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## Id (Apr 22, 2006)

Look up Kingdom Come Flash.....that version of flash is insane.


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## Gaara'sOnlyGirl (Apr 22, 2006)

ahahah! not if he used kayoken and was SSJ4! No way Jose!


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## Haohmaru (Apr 22, 2006)

Perfect Moron said:
			
		

> Not only that's not speed, but he can only teleport to a place where can feel someone's ki. And in a race, Flash would get to the finish line before Goku is done bringing his fingers to his forehead.



I think that depends on the distance. If you're going from west (LA) to east (tokyo) I think Goku will be faster with IT.


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## Gaara'sOnlyGirl (Apr 22, 2006)

lol I looked it up now... dang its a diff guy... now I cant say for sure lol; but I got to agree with Haohmaru from what I just read in the thread


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## The Pink Ninja (Apr 22, 2006)

Goku is still stronger, I doubt the Flash could hurt him at all. But the Flash can move at Light Speed. That's waaay faster than Goku's ever done.


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## Gaara'sOnlyGirl (Apr 22, 2006)

just thought of something. Goku can transport; what if flash tripps? thats got to be some road rash! >.< and it would take him a bit to get up simply because of his speed and the fall.


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## Guy Gardner (Apr 22, 2006)

Gaara'sOnlyGirl said:
			
		

> ahahah! not if he used kayoken and was SSJ4! No way Jose!



Yeah, he would. The Flash's thing is speed; he can tap into the universal embodiment of speed (The Speedforce) to reach speeds that no one else could even hope to hit.

BladeOfTheImmortal: Actually, the one that destroyed the Anti-Monitor's Gun was Barry Allen, the second Flash (With Jay Garrick being the first). Barry was the guy who could instinctively vibrate when he touched an object so that he could vibrate himself right through it.


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## Shiron (Apr 22, 2006)

Gaara'sOnlyGirl said:
			
		

> ... o.o obviously were thinking of two diffrent flashes.....


 The Flash on Cartoon Network (Justice League Unlimited) is not the same Flash as the one we're talking about. The one on CN is just a super toned-down version of the ones Scorpio3.14, BladeOfTheImmortal, Id and Comic Book Guy are talking about.

And SSJ4 is filler (and so is practically all of GT) so please don't bring that into this...

But basically, since there aren't any actual official statements of Goku's speed, this isn't really going to go too far. That is, unless you want us to bring up loopholes, with the Flash having to go trillions of time the speed of light to make a certain statement true. But basically, since we don't really know how fast Goku travels (without IT, since that is NOT speed; it's a technique. Therefore, it has nothing to do with Goku's actual speed; it's just a technique and isn't his actual speed. Therefore, it should not be counted as such.), since it's not officially stated anywhere, I can predict we're not going to get very far on this, based on other DBZ vs. Marvel and DC comics threads.

EDIT: This thread assumes that neither of them trips or anything... That should be obvious. Or I could say "What if Goku looses his balance for some reason, giving the Flash a two second head start, while Goku got back up and started flying." Yeah...

And IT should not be counted or used since that is NOT speed. It's a technique! We're going by who's faster here. IT doesn't equal speed, so it should not be used or mentioned here. Goku using IT is just like someone driving a car in a foot race and using it instead of running. No... just no.


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## Comic Book Guy (Apr 22, 2006)

Apparently, that's been discussed before. Supposedly, the Speed Force counts in that, but I'm not sure how.

It's probably agreed that KC Flash is possibly one of the most powerful heroes ever. But I'm going to refrain in fear of starting another vs. thread.


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## Gaara'sOnlyGirl (Apr 22, 2006)

lol yah; think your right okay then bye guys ^^*


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## Aruarian (Apr 22, 2006)

Gaara'sOnlyGirl said:
			
		

> just thought of something. Goku can transport; what if flash tripps? thats got to be some road rash! >.< and it would take him a bit to get up simply because of his speed and the fall.


The Flash can fase through matter.


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## Gambitz (Apr 22, 2006)

> Not only that's not speed, but he can only teleport to a place where can feel someone's ki. And in a race, Flash would get to the finish line before Goku is done bringing his fingers to his forehead.


Goku could just teleport to finish line and beat flash.


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## Comic Book Guy (Apr 22, 2006)

Alrighty.

Flash can vibrate through objects, but there's also the effect that vibrating through objects causes them to explode. A good adaption to this in JLU, when Lex Luthor took over Flash's body; he vibrated a door and caused it to explode rather violently.

And yes, it's confirmed that he can also steal speed from moving objects and add it to his own.

With the vibrating explosive trick, combined with KC Flash. . . hoo boy.


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## Shiron (Apr 22, 2006)

drunken master said:
			
		

> Goku could just teleport to finish line and beat flash.


Goku can not just teleport to the finish line. Goku can only teleport to where he's locked onto someone's ki. If there's noone's ki to be found there, he can't teleport there. So basically, Goku can only teleport to where another person or animal is. But the smaller the ki reading, the harder it is to lock onto. By the time Goku found a ki signal to lock onto, and put his fingers to his forhead, the Flash would already be at the finish line. I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is.


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## CABLE (Apr 22, 2006)

Comic Book Guy said:
			
		

> Current Flash can exceed lightspeed.
> 
> Also, I think that he can steal speed from other objects and add it to his own. But let me check the issues.



Yeah he can.  But his force, is speed force, whereas Goku's is Ki.


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## Renegade (Apr 22, 2006)

Id said:
			
		

> Look up Kingdom Come Flash.....that version of flash is insane.


lol i looked it up, he looks like thore with that funny helmet


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## Guy Gardner (Apr 22, 2006)

Cable said:
			
		

> Yeah he can.  But his force, is speed force, whereas Goku's is Ki.


But speed is speed, no matter if it comes from ki or an internal combustion engine. So he could steal the speed from Goku.


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## Comic Book Guy (Apr 22, 2006)

Most likely, the Flash can steal Goku's speed (even his ki enhanced speed, if that's the case).

Now, for the IT. . . I have to look into that.


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## Reznor (Apr 22, 2006)

Well, speed is being used pretty broadly here.

Travel Speed - Most incarnations of Flash >>>> Any Goku.
Instant Transmission may or maynot make a difference.

Speed Perception, Reflexes and Agility are harder to say.

Those aren't something that you see with amazing feats, unlike travel speed.


> But speed is speed, no matter if it comes from ki or an internal combustion engine. So he could steal the speed from Goku.


 You can do something to the other person in a race.

That's like if I challenged someone to race and I just beat him up instead and claimed to be faster.


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## Guy Gardner (Apr 22, 2006)

Reznor said:
			
		

> Well, speed is being used pretty broadly here.
> 
> Travel Speed - Most incarnations of Flash >>>> Any Goku.
> Instant Transmission may or maynot make a difference.
> ...



If Wally ends up at anything close to KC Flash, then yes, he still beats Goku. I mean, that version of the Flash exists on different planes at the same time and in several different places at the same time. Goku simply can't do anything close to that.



> You can do something to the other person in a race.
> 
> That's like if I challenged someone to race and I just beat him up instead and claimed to be faster.



I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Stealing speed is just him absorbing the speed that Goku is giving off and using it to power himself. Though in lieu of that possibly being cheating, I'm fairly sure that Flash could beat him without it.


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## Scorpio3.14 (Apr 22, 2006)

Justice And Rule said:
			
		

> BladeOfTheImmortal: Actually, the one that destroyed the Anti-Monitor's Gun was Barry Allen, the second Flash (With Jay Garrick being the first). Barry was the guy who could instinctively vibrate when he touched an object so that he could vibrate himself right through it.



Actually, due to a time traveling paradox Wally was thrust back in time to the origional COIE and he destroyed the Anti-moniter's main body by himself, although he was completely whiped afterwards. Oh course the time stream was later repaired and things happened the way it normally did again, but Wally still did it.


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## Guy Gardner (Apr 22, 2006)

Scorpio3.14 said:
			
		

> Actually, due to a time traveling paradox Wally was thrust back in time to the origional COIE and he destroyed the Anti-moniter's main body by himself, although he was completely whiped afterwards. Oh course the time stream was later repaired and things happened the way it normally did again, but Wally still did it.



...

I never knew that. Was this during Zero Hour or something...?


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## Perfect Moron (Apr 22, 2006)

drunken master said:
			
		

> Goku could just teleport to finish line and beat flash.



Why did you quote me if you didn't even read my post? 
Seriously, reading someone's points takes *more* than identifying a not pro-dbz post and thinking "This is wrong, because dbz >>>> all".

Goku would need someone standing at the finish line in order to lock onto his ki and teleport. Besides, he needs to bring his fingers to his forehead. Flash can go beyond the speed of light. That's faster than eight times around the Earth in a second. That means he would get to the finish line before Goku even has the chance to bring his fingers to his forehead, unless the race consists of several laps around the Earth, in which case teleporting to the finish line would accomplish nothing.


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## Comic Book Guy (Apr 22, 2006)

I think when 'Barry Allen returned'. Don't ask, but it happened. . . and did not.


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## Scorpio3.14 (Apr 22, 2006)

Justice And Rule said:
			
		

> ...
> 
> I never knew that. Was this during Zero Hour or something...?



It happened in Issue #150 of Flash v2. It was part of a six part series known as chain lightning that happened during issue #145-150.

Very good stuff, I recommend it if you ever get the chance to read it. Mark Waid's Flash has always been the best to me


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## BladeofTheChad (Apr 23, 2006)

Cinder and Smoke said:
			
		

> God could will speed out of existence and the Flash'd be fucked.



pish flash is faster than thought...


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## BladeofTheChad (Apr 23, 2006)

Justice And Rule said:
			
		

> Yeah, he would. The Flash's thing is speed; he can tap into the universal embodiment of speed (The Speedforce) to reach speeds that no one else could even hope to hit.
> 
> BladeOfTheImmortal: Actually, the one that destroyed the Anti-Monitor's Gun was Barry Allen, the second Flash (With Jay Garrick being the first). Barry was the guy who could instinctively vibrate when he touched an object so that he could vibrate himself right through it.



nope during one of the Flash's(Wally West) comics, something got messed up in the time stream and so Barry Allen didnt give up his life or something destroying the Gun, so Wall West went back to when it happened, and KILLED Anti-Monitor SINGLE HANDEDLY! get Id to give you the scan. he can pull scans that dont exist out of his ass...

Edit: sorry, didnt read all the posts, just yours that talked about this...and yeah, oh no he was exhausted after it...LMAo he would've killed any incarnation of Supes with that strength....


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## Yondy (Apr 23, 2006)

Definetly the Flash, no argument.


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## CABLE (Apr 23, 2006)

BladeofTheImmortal said:
			
		

> nope during one of the Flash's(Wally West) comics, something got messed up in the time stream and so Barry Allen didnt give up his life or something destroying the Gun, so Wall West went back to when it happened, and KILLED Anti-Monitor SINGLE HANDEDLY! get Id to give you the scan. he can pull scans that dont exist out of his ass...
> 
> Edit: sorry, didnt read all the posts, just yours that talked about this...and yeah, oh no he was exhausted after it...LMAo he would've killed any incarnation of Supes with that strength....



You've never read a Flash comic in your life have you?


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## BladeofTheChad (Apr 23, 2006)

ive read about them...so piss off...


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## Kisame. (Apr 23, 2006)

Flash wins....badly.

In fact he would probaly get so bored he would go back and pick up goku and bring him there as well.


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## Azure-kun (Apr 23, 2006)

flash. . .but in terms of better clothing goku (damn spandex)


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## CABLE (Apr 23, 2006)

BladeofTheImmortal said:
			
		

> ive read about them...so piss off...



Haha.  Such a little idiot.


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## Azure-kun (Apr 23, 2006)

Cable said:
			
		

> Haha. Such a little idiot.


 
  *sigh* that's life. . .I wonder if the flash could ever lose at anything though. . .like Tic tak toe or something.


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## Guy Gardner (Apr 23, 2006)

Wonderz said:
			
		

> *sigh* that's life. . .I wonder if the flash could ever lose at anything though. . .like Tic tak toe or something.



That's because he's one of the original 7!


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## Sieg (Apr 23, 2006)

I'll say flash. His speed abilities seem to surpass Goku's.


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## Scorpio3.14 (Apr 23, 2006)

Justice And Rule said:
			
		

> That's because he's one of the original 7!



lol ah, JLU. How I will miss you *still thinks a Flash cartoon would be beyond awesome*


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## zizou (Apr 23, 2006)

goku teleport > flash > goku speed


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## Kisame. (Apr 23, 2006)

> goku teleport > flash > goku speed



flash can go anywhere goku wants to teleport faster than he can do it.

He can go there before Goku even thinks about teleporting there.


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## Gunners (Apr 23, 2006)

> flash can go anywhere goku wants to teleport faster than he can do it.
> 
> He can go there before Goku even thinks about teleporting there.



No he cant, a planet 3 light years away would take flash 3 years to reach, assuming he moves light speed, instant transmition would take an instant.

Anyway, in terms of speed flash would win, hands down, he would probably beat goku twice, his past self also winning.

If it is a designated race to a certain location, goku could win if it is really far, somewhere it would take light a minute to reach, if he used IT he would again get their instantly.


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## Kisame. (Apr 23, 2006)

> No he cant, a planet 3 light years away would take flash 3 years to reach, assuming he moves light speed, instant transmition would take an instant.
> 
> Anyway, in terms of speed flash would win, hands down, he would probably beat goku twice, his past self also winning.
> 
> If it is a designated race to a certain location, goku could win if it is really far, somewhere it would take light a minute to reach, if he used IT he would again get their instantly.




Speedforce heard of?


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## Gunners (Apr 23, 2006)

??ndaim? said:
			
		

> Speedforce heard of?




Yes i have heard of the speedforce, and when flash moves at the speed of light that is where he goes. Meaning he can't move above light without disapearing.

Instant transmission is not time, speed takes a certain amount of time to reach.

So if they are in a race, instant transimision would go to a place in an instant, speed would take a set amount of time. In a race to the other side of the universe the diffrence would be shown.


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## Bullet (Apr 23, 2006)

gunners said:
			
		

> No he cant, a planet 3 light years away would take flash 3 years to reach, assuming he moves light speed, instant transmition would take an instant.
> 
> Anyway, in terms of speed flash would win, hands down, he would probably beat goku twice, his past self also winning.
> 
> If it is a designated race to a certain location, goku could win if it is really far, somewhere it would take light a minute to reach, if he used IT he would again get their instantly.



Except Goku doesn't know anyone (he needs a KI signiture) on the planet that's 3 light years away, and hasn't even steped foot on the planet before, so IT whould be useless. 

And Flash is faster than light (way faster).


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## Aruarian (Apr 23, 2006)

Flash is able to alter other dimensions with speed, no? He can just enter one in which time moves faster than the dimension Goku is in, run to the desired point, leave the dimension, and finish before Goku had even thought about what to do.


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## BladeofTheChad (Apr 23, 2006)

how am I an idiot? The Flash could beat any Superman...when he is not dumbed down.


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## Gunners (Apr 23, 2006)

> Except Goku doesn't know anyone (he needs a KI signiture) on the planet that's 3 light years away, and hasn't even steped foot on the planet before, so IT whould be useless.
> 
> And Flash is faster than light (way faster).



Finding a ki signature is not that hard, im telling you now.

He could teleport to king kai, get him to get a log on to his location then teleport there, that would take 5 minutes, for the flash to reach somewhere 5 light years away it would still take him 3 years.



> And Flash is faster than light (way faster).



No he isnt, and even if you can go at such a speed, someone getting there in an instant will beat you out if the distance is stretched.

if flash is twice the speed of light goku would still beat him in a race which is 1 light year away.


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## BladeofTheChad (Apr 23, 2006)

Sorry man, cannot agree with you here. Flash outran Death itself...that is faster than anyone.


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## Gunners (Apr 23, 2006)

In a foot race flash would cream goku.

If they were racing to where namek is, goku would get there faster with IT, i would actually take flash years to reach running, goku with IT would go to king kai, get a ki lock on which would take about a minute, and then teleport there.

That is where IT is more effective than light speed, over distances which = light years.


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## Guy Gardner (Apr 23, 2006)

gunners said:
			
		

> Finding a ki signature is not that hard, im telling you now.
> 
> He could teleport to king kai, get him to get a log on to his location then teleport there, that would take 5 minutes, for the flash to reach somewhere 5 light years away it would still take him 3 years.



King Kai is someone he was around for quite a while. His ki signature would be distinctive and he'd know right where it takes him. That's not a proper argument for someone that he wouldn't know on a planet that he doesn't know the position of.



> No he isnt, and even if you can go at such a speed, someone getting there in an instant will beat you out if the distance is stretched.
> 
> if flash is twice the speed of light goku would still beat him in a race which is 1 light year away.



Flash can go way faster than the Speed of Light. IT is a technique, not pure speed, and the fact that Flash within the Speedforce is able to be in multiple spots at the same time, travel back and forwards in time (Meaning he could be there before the race even starts), and exist across different planes is a far more powerful example of his speed. Goku's IT wouldn't beat him, and Goku in pure speed couldn't hope to compare with him.


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## Gunners (Apr 23, 2006)

> King Kai is someone he was around for quite a while. His ki signature would be distinctive and he'd know right where it takes him. That's not a proper argument for someone that he wouldn't know on a planet that he doesn't know the position of.



I used king kai to counter goku not being able to sense far out things, king kai can, so he would use him as the comunicator.



> Flash can go way faster than the Speed of Light. IT is a technique, not pure speed, and the fact that Flash within the Speedforce is able to be in multiple spots at the same time, travel back and forwards in time (Meaning he could be there before the race even starts), and exist across different planes is a far more powerful example of his speed. Goku's IT wouldn't beat him, and Goku in pure speed couldn't hope to compare with him.



I didn't say goku IT would win with flash travelling dimensions etc. I said goku IT would win if flash was running at x speed, flash can move so fast, but with IT there will be a distance were goku would win. There is a big diffrence between instant and real fast.

Oh, and can you show me some scans with the flash moving above light speed where it is stated, not kc flash, and i want it were he actually said to move faster than light speed not moments where they show off like him moving everyone out the city from a bomb etc. 

Moments were it states that he moves above light speed, because to my knowledge he moves just below light speed, and the moment he touches light speed he enters the speed force.


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## Bullet (Apr 23, 2006)

> gunners said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Gunners (Apr 23, 2006)

> Finding a KI sig will be very hard since he's never know the person he's teleporting too on that planet. And their in neutral universes, so King Kai's planet and every other DBZ planet is out (minus Earth), since that whouldn't exsist in Flashes universe. And it takes time before Goku teleports to the destination, in that short time, the race whould be over if he's racing Flash. Flash was going so fast at one time, that he was afraid that he might leave the light coming out of the flashlight he was holding.



No king kai is able to track locations through his antena, there is a ki force in everything, shown when goku can take energy from grass animals etc.

Once he gets the lock he is there in a instant, and area 3 lightyears away would take the flash 3 years to run there, he doesnt move faster than light to my knowledge.

Goku finding a ki log would take lets say an hour, him teleporting there would be instant, he would beat the flash in that race by a long shot.

Instant movement is faster than x speed.


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## Aruarian (Apr 23, 2006)

Still, teleportation ISN'T speed.


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## Gunners (Apr 23, 2006)

Cinder and Smoke said:
			
		

> Still, teleportation ISN'T speed.




Exactly.

In a race where they are both moving at with feet or flying, well a race that doesnt involve breaking dimensions, flash would win any day of the week.

If it was a race for who would reach this part of the universe quicker, and flash ran goku used IT there is a good chance that goku would win, actually he would more than likely win;


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## Keollyn (Apr 23, 2006)

Flash... any incarnation. The more noteworthy one can speedblitz him so bad, Kakarotto might age backward/forward by him doing so.


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## Soulbadguy (Apr 24, 2006)

flash i dont think is faster i never saw flash move so fast that you cant see him he alway has a red trial behide him and goku  has dont that many times 

but it woulnd be very close and some becase if was a race no flying flash has wounld almoslt own goku(not sure about any ssj form tho) but goku would  beat him if he was able to fly mainly goku seem faster flying and there wounldnt be any objects to worry about expect bulidings that goku has to worry about plus goku has way more eudurce than flash in the end goku wounld win


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## Gunners (Apr 24, 2006)

^^^ in a race where goku can't use IT he would have his ass whooped 7 times over. 

Flash actually beat himself in a race, i beleive he ran so fast he ran back in time and beat himself.


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