# Snape vs Bellatrix Lestrange



## Taijukage (Jun 22, 2011)

who would win in a duel? no real rules except they can't use AK.


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## Level7N00b (Jun 22, 2011)

It's pretty even IMO.

However word of the Marauders, four very powerful wizards say that Snape was extremely talented in the Dark Arts from a young age who knew more dark magic than the seventh years. He even held off Professor Flitwick, Minerva McGonagall, and Horace Slughorn at once! All three of whom are very powerful! Adding in that he's also a spell creator is a good look too.

Bellatrix on the other hand claimed to have learned Dark Arts from Voldemort himself, not to mention she fought off Aurors repeatedly, as well as blocked a spell from Dumbledore, which is something very few can claim.

I'm gonna hafta give this to Snape after a fair battle, but Bella is no slouch herself. She's probably the most powerful Death Eater, not including Snape.


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## Emperor Joker (Jun 22, 2011)

Snape should be the better duelist of the two, and his general knowledge from what I recall is more extensive than Bellatrix's was.

He should take this with some difficulty and a hard fight.


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## I3igAl (Jun 22, 2011)

Snape also is in a more intact mental state. He should be able to win.


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## Level7N00b (Jun 22, 2011)

Bellatrix mental state is more help than it is harm. Most people would be afraid to go up against someone who is a complete nutter, who's also an insanely powerful witch. And I can't remember any time at all when her being manic has ever hindered her.

But those things don't bother nor intimidate Severus Snape, since he ran in the same crowd as her, and is probably the most emotionally fortified man in HP.


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## Deleted member 45015 (Jun 22, 2011)

Snape could dance with McGonagall without much trouble before he then went up against Flitwirk (a former Duelling Champion) and Sprout. And in the end he only wound up being forced to retreat...and he wasn't Bloodlusted since he was fighting defensively against his "enemies" 

It would be a close run thing, but Snape has shown greater variety to his magic with counter-spells and especially his wide knowledge of Curses. Bellatrix by hype would have at least equal knowledge, but Snape was the one who could fly without a broom and he's displayed far more knowledge in terms of feats.

I'm handing this one to Snape.


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## Xelloss (Jun 22, 2011)

I would like input a prime Alastor vs Snape as Snape was partial afraid of the impostor Moody.


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## mali (Jun 22, 2011)

Snape should take this.

Do you guys consider when Rons mum fought Bellatrix as jobbing?


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## Bender (Jun 22, 2011)

twinrasengan said:


> Snape should take this.
> 
> Do you guys consider when Rons mum fought Bellatrix as jobbing?



Wasn't Bellatrix fucking around Ron's mom?


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## mali (Jun 22, 2011)

I think she was fucking around at the start, but then noticed she couldn't.


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## King Of Gamesxx (Jun 22, 2011)

Snape killed Dumbledore!

Really though Snape should take this, his spell knowledge seems to be superior. His arsenal also seems to have more variety.


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## Z (Jun 22, 2011)

Snape from what's been seen and stuff. But if he fucks around for even a second he loses.

Also, didn't Voldemort teach some stuff to Snape?


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## familyparka (Jun 22, 2011)

King Of Gamesxx said:


> Snape killed Dumbledore!



Ok, now it's OBVIOUS that you haven't read the books. Dumbledore LET Snape kill him, no, in fact, he MADE him kill him. It was all Dumbledore's plan.

The only fact that shows that Snape may win this is the personallity of both chars. Even though Bella is one of my favourite chars, I have to assume that, having the blood of a Black, she has the same obvious weakness: His pride.

The Black's Pride got both Sirius and Bellatrix killed, this is why I'd say she'd loose.

On the other hand, it's Snape we are talking about, and Bellatrix obviously has hard feelings for him since he betrayed the Dark Lord, and she obviously knows how powerfull he is. So not only she wouldn't hold back, but she would not let her pride take control in this battle. Under that conditions, Bella won't loose to Snape.

That's why I think Bella would win.


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## Colderz (Jun 22, 2011)

^^^ Everytime I see your post it's like you can't catch an obvious joke lol. He was joking.


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## familyparka (Jun 22, 2011)

Colderz said:


> ^^^ Everytime I see your post it's like you can't catch an obvious joke lol. He was joking.



Sorry, but I've seen too many fail users around. I'm starting to loose my sense of humor


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## Colderz (Jun 22, 2011)

Fair enough, this place isn't anything like it use to be.


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## Deleted member 45015 (Jun 22, 2011)

twinrasengan said:


> I think she was fucking around at the start, but then noticed she couldn't.



Bella lost - and died - because of CIS. Her own arrogance. She was up against kids, mudbloods and blood-traitors, all of whom she regarded with the same sort of contempt as a garden slug.

Bellatrix won't do this with Snape, thoug, especially since she openly dislikes and distrusts him. But Snape knows what she's capable of - and likely her habit of playing with her food - and could make it work for him.


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## mykel23 (Jun 22, 2011)

If both were bloodluster, Bellatrix takes this. She's second only to Voldemort in that group of Death Eaters isn't she? But because of her unstable crazyness, Snape takes this.


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## Colderz (Jun 23, 2011)

No Snape is second to Voldermort.


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## Zombehs (Jun 23, 2011)

Snape would win this most likely. He's shown to be a master of the Dark Arts and also he's able to cast spells without speaking much like he did against Harry at the end of the sixth book. 

I'm fairly sure he'd just flick his wand and Bellatrix wouldn't know what hit her as the ones who can cast spells with no words are apparantly extremely rare. And with that first hit, the match is basically decided.

Even without the first hit, he's probably the third best wizard after Dumbledore and Voldemort.


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## Level7N00b (Jun 23, 2011)

twinrasengan said:


> Snape should take this.
> 
> Do you guys consider when Rons mum fought Bellatrix as jobbing?



Yes. That came out of nowhere, and it was never hinted at all that molly was a skilled duelist. I wanted Neville to kill her.  It's the quiet ones man, it's the quiet ones.



Colderz said:


> No Snape is second to Voldermort.



Snape hasn't been a Death Eater since Lily was killed. Bella is a Death Eater through and through, so since Snape quit, he shouldn't be called one anymore.


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## Narcissus (Jun 23, 2011)

Snape is a better wizard than Bellatrix is a witch. Bella is an extremely talented and powerful witch, in league with Sirius. But Snape was a genius. At a young age he was creating his own spells through dark magic, was able to fly without aid (a feat only Voldemort has), and was defensively taking on Hogwarts teachers.

Voldemort even felt regret in having to kill him because of his skill.

Everything points in the direction of Snape being more powerful than Bellatrix, strong as she was. I see him winning the fight.


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## familyparka (Jun 23, 2011)

Zombehs said:


> Snape would win this most likely. He's shown to be a master of the Dark Arts and also he's able to cast spells without speaking much like he did against Harry at the end of the sixth book.
> 
> I'm fairly sure he'd just flick his wand and Bellatrix wouldn't know what hit her *as the ones who can cast spells with no words are apparantly extremely rare*. And with that first hit, the match is basically decided.
> 
> Even without the first hit, he's probably the third best wizard after Dumbledore and Voldemort.



Uhm... ok... here is the thing:

Every mage in existense is able to learn to cast spells without speaking, in the sixth year of Hogwarts they learned that.

Also Harry has shown to be extremely powerfull (thanks to voldemort, of course), such as Lupin, Sirius, James (when he was alive), Lucius and Bellatrix. All of this mages are better in combat than Snape, specially the first 3, this has been shown and said in various occations.

So, basically I don't know if the thing is that you didn't read the books at all (all of em, specially from the 5th on) or you just didn't understood shit.

Whichever the cause may be, the thing is, your post fails terribly...


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## familyparka (Jun 23, 2011)

Level7N00b said:


> Yes. That came out of nowhere, and it was never hinted at all that molly was a skilled duelist. I wanted Neville to kill her.  It's the quiet ones man, it's the quiet ones.



I totally hated that, I wanted Ginny to kill her


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## Level7N00b (Jun 23, 2011)

familyparka said:


> I totally hated that, I wanted Ginny to kill her



Fuck. Ginny.  

What reason was there for her to kill Bellatrix? Not that it wouldn't make the wizarding world a better place to have her in a tomb, but Neville deserved it.


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## TeenRyu (Jun 23, 2011)

memory serves me right, She would technically be behind Snape, because Voldmort thought he had snape in his grasp the entire series as a spy, yet snape was working for dumbledore. If there was someone to be afraid of, I'd say snape; the man was truly a genius.


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## familyparka (Jun 23, 2011)

Level7N00b said:


> Fuck. Ginny.
> 
> What reason was there for her to kill Bellatrix? Not that it wouldn't make the wizarding world a better place to have her in a tomb, but Neville deserved it.



He did deserved it, but he had been already too important in that book for JK to let him kill a character like Bella



TeenRyu said:


> memory serves me right, She would technically be behind Snape, because Voldmort thought he had snape in his grasp the entire series as a spy, yet snape was working for dumbledore. If there was someone to be afraid of, I'd say snape; the man was truly a genius.



That proves he was good as a spy, but not good in combat. Bellatrix kept up (and killed) Sirius, who was said to be one of the best mages in combat skills (tied with James) of his generation.


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## Narcissus (Jun 23, 2011)

familyparka said:


> Also Harry has shown to be extremely powerfull (thanks to voldemort, of course), such as Lupin, Sirius, James (when he was alive), Lucius and Bellatrix. All of this mages are better in combat than Snape, specially the first 3, this has been shown and said in various occations.



Sirius and James had a habit of either sneaking up or ganging up on Snape, who had no one else to back him up in a fight. In addition, Snape is one of the best wizards in the series in terms of combat. As it was said, he held off three Hogwarts teachers while only fighting to defend himself.


Level7N00b said:


> Yes. That came out of nowhere, and it was never hinted at all that molly was a skilled duelist. I wanted Neville to kill her.  It's the quiet ones man, it's the quiet ones.





familyparka said:


> I totally hated that, I wanted Ginny to kill her



You both realize that either of those options would've been insanely stupid on JK's part, right? Here was this powerful Death Eater... killed by school children. Really? In Molly's case, it was never hinted that she was a great duelist, but we know she participated in the last war, so that possibility exists, even if Bellatrix's arrogance caused her to lose.


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## Zombehs (Jun 23, 2011)

familyparka said:


> Uhm... ok... here is the thing:
> 
> Every mage in existense is able to learn to cast spells without speaking, in the sixth year of Hogwarts they learned that.
> 
> ...



Okay yes I screwed up on the non-incantation part. And no not every mage is able to. It's not something easy, it's still something that's hard and takes practice.

Where the hell did you get that Harry is better than Snape? Do you not remember Snape thrashing Harry around like a doll at the end of Half-Blood?

There's never been a true showing of Snape's power, but he managed to hold off McGonagall, Spout and Flitwick and retreat. And none of those three are weak. There's nothing that shows that Snape was weaker than any of the mages you mentioned at his peak.

Not to mention the whole he can read your mind and you can't read his thing with Legilimency and Occlumency.

Sirius lost against Bellatrix, because he was being cocky and underestimated her. He openly taunted her during the fight and wasn't fighting for his life. Or at least he wasn't fully serious.


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## Level7N00b (Jun 23, 2011)

Narcissus said:


> You both realize that either of those options would've been insanely stupid on JK's part, right? Here was this powerful Death Eater... killed by school children. Really? In Molly's case, it was never hinted that she was a great duelist, but we know she participated in the last war, so that possibility exists, even if Bellatrix's arrogance caused her to lose.



Of course. Having her be killed by someone less than half her age who has even less that amount of experience would make any fan who's paid attention slam their face into the book.Would it have made sense, definitely not, but I can't help but think he'd want the last shot. Oh well, there's always Fanfiction, right?   And to add to what you said about Molly...she cant be a slouch, if she has to keep Fred and George in line.


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## familyparka (Jun 23, 2011)

Zombehs said:


> Okay yes I screwed up on the non-incantation part. And no not every mage is able to. It's not something easy, it's still something that's hard and takes practice.



Still, with practice almost every mage can do it. That is the reason for it being teached at Hogwarts.



Zombehs said:


> Where the hell did you get that Harry is better than Snape? Do you not remember Snape thrashing Harry around like a doll at the end of Half-Blood?



That Harry was blinded by hatred. Do you remember Harry clashing with Voldemort?



Zombehs said:


> There's never been a true showing of Snape's power, but he managed to hold off McGonagall, Spout and Flitwick and retreat.



He ran off because he knew else he was fucked up, that proves nothing. Even though I like McGonagall a lot, and I am aware that Flitwick should be very powerfull, him and Sprout are not at the level of a good Auror, like the ones Bellatrix kills as a hobby... 




Zombehs said:


> There's nothing that shows that Snape was weaker than any of the mages you mentioned at his peak.



There is a random Auror who's name is not even said, I think in the sixth book, that could only be killed when he faced against 5 Death Eaters at the same time, and still he gave them a tough fight. The number of enemys dont proove much.



Zombehs said:


> Not to mention the whole he can read your mind and you can't read his thing with Legilimency and Occlumency.



You know that is not a combat spell, right?



Zombehs said:


> Sirius lost against Bellatrix, because he was being cocky and underestimated her. He openly taunted her during the fight and wasn't fighting for his life. Or at least he wasn't fully serious.



The same way as Bellatrix loosing to Molly. Which won't happen when she is facing Snape because, as I said before, she has hard feelings for him and she knows he is a powerfull mage.


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## Zombehs (Jun 23, 2011)

Uh with Legilimency, Snape read from Harry's mind what spell he was going to use next. I'm fairly sure that means it can be used for combat. Though Bellatrix is a Occlumens so yeah how effective is debatable.

Filius is as strong as your average Auror if not more so. He's defeated Antonin, the Death Eater that killed Lupin and beat Moody. So yeah take that as you will. Snape ran because he wasn't intending on actually fighting back and he was doing fine against McGonagall himself. He managed to duel all three of them briefly before he finally backed off. The fact that he held those three off is more than what Bellatrix has ever shown to do.

Which duel? The one where the Eldar Wand turned against Voldemort? That proves nothing on Harry's skill.


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## familyparka (Jun 23, 2011)

Zombehs said:


> Filius is as strong as your average Auror if not more so. He's defeated Antonin, *the Death Eater that killed Lupin* and beat Moody.



When is that said?


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## Zombehs (Jun 23, 2011)

familyparka said:


> When is that said?



He dueled with Lupin in the Battle of Hogwarts and killed him. Rowling herself said that Lupin was killed by him.


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## Taijukage (Jun 23, 2011)

> Voldemort even felt regret in having to kill him because of his skill.


Old Voldy felt nothing at all. At least Rowling implied that. Besides he screamed when Bella died.


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## Level7N00b (Jun 23, 2011)

Taijukage said:


> Old Voldy felt nothing at all. At least Rowling implied that. Besides he screamed when Bella died.



That is likely because Bellatrix was killed in battle. Voldemort made the decision himself that Severus was a necessary sacrifice, but when his most fanatical follower got killed, it's understandable he raged.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Jun 23, 2011)

Taijukage said:


> Old Voldy felt nothing at all. At least Rowling implied that. Besides he screamed when Bella died.



It went like this:

""I regret it"" said Voldemort coldly. There was no sadness in him, no remorse..." 

The implication is obviously that he regrets losing Snape's abilities. He just feels nothing at killing someone. Which should be obvious.


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## Shooting burst stream (Jun 23, 2011)

I'd say Sanpe takes this with some difficulty.


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## jetwaterluffy1 (Jun 23, 2011)

Zombehs said:


> Even without the first hit, he's probably the third best wizard after Dumbledore and Voldemort.



That would be grindelwald. He gave even dumbledore a good fight, and he conquered possibly more than voldermort. I was impled he was ruling several counties by the time dumbledore got to him.
Snape still wins though. In terms of mental ablities, he is the strongest, stronger even than Voldemort. I am fairly sure he could mindcrush Bellatrix, if she is weakened by fighting. On top of that, he shows high levels of intellect, creating a large proportion of the spells in HP. He can fly without a broom, and solo the other 3 heads of house. Bellatrix is strong, but not as strong as Snape.


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## Level7N00b (Jun 23, 2011)

jetwaterluffy1 said:


> That would be grindelwald. He gave even dumbledore a good fight, and he conquered possibly more than voldermort. I was impled he was ruling several counties by the time dumbledore got to him.
> Snape still wins though. In terms of mental ablities, he is the strongest, stronger even than Voldemort. I am fairly sure he could mindcrush Bellatrix, if she is weakened by fighting. On top of that, he shows high levels of intellect, creating a large proportion of the spells in HP. He can fly without a broom, and solo the other 3 heads of house. Bellatrix is strong, but not as strong as Snape.



Snape needs his wand to use Legilimancy. Voldemort does not. Not to mention he got into Harry's mind from long distances. And not only that,, Severus is a more powerful Occlumens than he is a Legilimens. Voldemort, the best know Legilimens of his time, someone who always knows when he's being lied to never figured Snape out, and he had every reason to be suspicious as well.

Regardless, there is going to be no going into anyone's mind in this, because Snape never showed that he could  use Legilimency while fighting.

And he didn't solo anyone. He held them off. Whether he could have won or not is another thread altogether.

Regardless, Snape still wins this with a bit of difficulty.


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## Amorozov (Jun 23, 2011)

Just wrote f-king long message about this, but it flew somewhere into the bitspace now let's try again.

Nothing in the Harry Potter world has ever shown capabilities to crush one's mind, ie. mindfuck. Legilimancy is an ability that allows you to read your opponents mind, nothing more - it's relatively easy to defend against with occlumence or propably just sheer willpower. Bellatrix is, if not a master, but at least decent in the art of occlumence, seeing that he taught it to Malfoy, so she shouldn't have problems closing his mind if Snape tries to use Legilimancy. It cannot be even used from distance (Voldemort could only do this to Harry because of the scar, it is explained in The Order of The Phoenix), nor has it ever been used in a battle, at least against any worthwile opponent. Legilimancy is not a factor that will decide the outcome of this match-up. The most it could do is work as a kind of pre-cog.

Snape, second in mastering dark arts propably only to Voldemort, has many deciding factors leaning towards him. Severus has many feats which together put him among the most powerful wizards ever.

Throughout his childhood his ambition towards dark arts had him studying them harder than possibly anyone ever had. When only eleven, he knew more spells than any of the seventh graders present to Hogwarts at the time.

At the age of sixteen he had developed many of his own spells and even written a book about them. One of his spells was so brutal that when Harry used it against Malfoy, it stopped their duel. The one I'm talking about is, of course, Snapes signature jinx, Sectumsempra.

At his prime he was considered to be amongst the most powerful Death-Eaters, second only to Voldemort. You-Know-Who even himself favoured Snape most. The years he spent with Voldy also show incredible discipline and patience, which could help him in a long battle.

When he had killed Dumby he was basically toying with Harry, and could have killed him with no effort whatsoever.

However perhaps his greatest feat of combat is him battling evenly against three experienced combatants, whom one was a master duelist himself. Fighting off multiple experienced fighters simultaneously is a incredible feat going by HP standards, and is, IIRC, only replicated by He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named and Dumbledore. It is a showing of incredible reaction time.

Bellatrix on the other hand is very powerful witch with much experience, but her only decent feat seems to be killing Sirius, who himself has no feats that would put him above any single person from the trio Snape fought.

In conclusion: Snape's greater feats give him the upper-hand in this battle and he wins with some difficulty! And don't get me wrong, Bellatrix is far from being weak, Snape is just too much for her to handle.


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## Gunners (Jun 23, 2011)

Snape would mop the floor with Bellatrix. 

He has better feats than her, holding his own against Flitwick ( Dueling champion) and McGonagall ( Transfiguration master). It should be noted that he wasn't trying to kill them whilst they were bloodlusted. 

We know more about his talent, being able to gain a degree of mastery over the Dark Arts in his first year. 

His occlumency is better than Bellatrix that should give him the edge in battle. 

He has had more years to hone his skill and research. 

He has a greater pool of knowledge than Bellatrix due to the fact that he doesn't limit his mind to the dark arts alone.


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## I3igAl (Jun 23, 2011)

One question, why does everyone always talk about mastery of the dark arts in Harry-Potter duels? 

I mean a simple _Petrificus Totalus_ or other normal curse should do the job of winning an an OBD-Battle if it doesn't get blocked by a defensive curse. Who cares if the enemy get's killed by _Avada Kedavra_ or traumatized by _Cruccio_, when it's just about determining who would win.


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## Level7N00b (Jun 23, 2011)

Because those who know the Dark Arts usually have some very nasty spell up their sleeve. Antonin Dolohov used a dark curse that attacked internal organs, and he used a weakened version with no incantation.

And variety never hurts.


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## A Optimistic (Jun 23, 2011)

Bellatrix takes this. She stopped a spell from Dumbledore, was taught the Dark Arts personally by Lord Voldemort, has beaten quite a few Aurors. 

Bellatrix also has a hatred for Snape so she's going to be bloodlusted and going all out from the start.


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## familyparka (Jun 23, 2011)

Avalon said:


> Bellatrix takes this. She stopped a spell from Dumbledore, was taught the Dark Arts personally by Lord Voldemort, has beaten quite a few Aurors.
> 
> Bellatrix also has a hatred for Snape so she's going to be bloodlusted and going all out from the start.



This is what has been said from the first page but they still don't seem to understand


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## Gunners (Jun 23, 2011)

I3igAl said:


> One question, why does everyone always talk about mastery of the dark arts in Harry-Potter duels?
> 
> I mean a simple _Petrificus Totalus_ or other normal curse should do the job of winning an an OBD-Battle if it doesn't get blocked by a defensive curse. Who cares if the enemy get's killed by _Avada Kedavra_ or traumatized by _Cruccio_, when it's just about determining who would win.


The answer should be clear enough with two seconds of thought. Jinxs like Petrificus Totalus and Stupefy move in simple beams that are easy to counter or dodge, it also requires specific aim. 

Dark spells such as Fiend Fire are more difficult to counter and avoid.


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## skiboydoggy (Jun 23, 2011)

Avalon said:


> Bellatrix takes this. She stopped a spell from Dumbledore, was taught the Dark Arts personally by Lord Voldemort, has beaten quite a few Aurors.
> 
> Bellatrix also has a hatred for Snape so she's going to be bloodlusted and going all out from the start.


Hardly matters, the OBD assumes bloodlust.


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## noobthemusical (Jun 23, 2011)

> That Harry was blinded by hatred. *Do you remember Harry clashing with Voldemort?*



Okay you do realize that it's been said multiple times that the only reason Harry ever, ever managed to match Voldemort was because, The twin wands, and later on because the Elder wand wouldn't let Voldemort hurt Harry. The wand was incapable of turning against it's master


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## Narcissus (Jun 24, 2011)

Avalon said:


> Bellatrix takes this. She stopped a spell from Dumbledore, was taught the Dark Arts personally by Lord Voldemort, has beaten quite a few Aurors.
> 
> Bellatrix also has a hatred for Snape so she's going to be bloodlusted and going all out from the start.



Snape was also either taught dark magic from Vldemort, as the teachers comment when he flies away, or he managed to learn them on his own. Either way, his knowledge of the darks arts has been shown to be more extensive than her own, and his skill in general made Voldemort regret having to kill him.

Snape is also well aware of Bellatrix's hate for him, and would not be holding back in a fight against her, so the bloodlust part is irrelevant.


familyparka said:


> This is what has been said from the first page but they still don't seem to understand



Yes, you've been repeating the same thing ad nauseum. It's not that people "don't understand," it's that they've been refuting it.


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## Gonder (Jun 24, 2011)

Zombehs said:


> Snape would win this most likely. He's shown to be a master of the Dark Arts and also he's able to cast spells without speaking much like he did against Harry at the end of the sixth book.
> 
> I'm fairly sure he'd just flick his wand and Bellatrix wouldn't know what hit her as the ones who can cast spells with no words are apparantly extremely rare. And with that first hit, the match is basically decided.
> 
> *Even without the first hit, he's probably the third best wizard after Dumbledore and Voldemort.*



um iam pretty sure Grindelwald >snape dude fought toe to toe with prime dumbledore


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## A Optimistic (Jun 24, 2011)

Narcissus said:


> Snape was also either taught dark magic from Vldemort, as the teachers comment when he flies away, or he managed to learn them on his own.



Where's your proof that's even dark magic to begin with? There's nothing dark about flying at all lol, it's probably just an advanced charm spell. 




Narcissus said:


> Either way, his knowledge of the darks arts has been shown to be more extensive than her own,



Please, a bunch of spells he made as a teen is nothing compared to the Dark Arts that Lord Voldemort taught Bellatrix, don't be ridiculous. 




Narcissus said:


> and his skill in general made Voldemort regret having to kill him.



...Yeah, cuz Voldemort clearly wasn't mad like crazy when Bellatrix died. 





Narcissus said:


> Snape is also well aware of Bellatrix's hate for him, and would not be holding back in a fight against her, so the bloodlust part is irrelevant.



It is relevant actually, because I'm obviously referring to Bellatrix always underestimating her opponents.


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## Mohamilton (Jun 25, 2011)

Snape was fending off a blood-lusted Harry Potter casually, whereas Bellatrix couldn't even defend against a blood-lusted Potter's Crucio spell. And Snape's just better.


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## skiboydoggy (Jun 25, 2011)

Avalon said:


> Where's your proof that's even dark magic to begin with? There's nothing dark about flying at all lol, it's probably just an advanced charm spell.



Apart from Snape, only Voldemort has been shown flying without a broom. Even Dumbledore used brooms. Even if it's "just" an advanced charm, it's a pretty fucking advanced charm.



> Please, a bunch of spells he made as a teen is nothing compared to the Dark Arts that Lord Voldemort taught Bellatrix, don't be ridiculous.



That explains why Sectumsempra became widely used amongst the Death Eaters and Levicorpus is just plain one of the most popular spells around. What great magic has Bellatrix shown...?

Oh, right, none.


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## Akabara Strauss (Jun 25, 2011)

Snape takes this.

He has better feats than Bella. And judging by his ability to fly Voldemort trusted him enough to teach him some of his own tricks. It could also be argued that he learned some tricks from Dumbledore.


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## Soledad Eterna (Jun 25, 2011)

Gunners said:


> Snape would mop the floor with Bellatrix.
> 
> He has better feats than her, holding his own against *Flitwick ( Dueling champion) and McGonagall ( Transfiguration master).*.



Why does everyone bring this? They were both past their prime at that moment, and for the most part they lack combat feats shown directly in the books. Fending off Aurors like Bellatrix does is a much better feat. Regardless though, Snape still wins because he is more inteligent and his extensive knowledge of magic.


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## skiboydoggy (Jun 25, 2011)

Because the professors have better feats than any of the Aurors, obviously. Unless Kingsley ever did anything nearly as impressive as animating all the suits of armour in Hogwarts at once.


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## Soledad Eterna (Jun 25, 2011)

Flitwick and McGonagall don't have any combat feats too. We know at least that the aurors train and are younger.


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## Akabara Strauss (Jun 25, 2011)

While it is true that the Heads may be past their prime it still does not discount the fact that they are the some of the best in the verse in terms of magic and combat skills.

Of the aurors shown in the series the only ones with impressive feats are Moody, Kingsley and Tonks.

So Snape escaping from the Heads is still abetter feat than Bellatrix evading aurors. After all look at Dawlish


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## FireEel (Jun 25, 2011)

Snape wins with high difficulty.

Personally, in terms of dark wizards, I rank the top three as Voldemort, Grindlewald and Snape.


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## jetwaterluffy1 (Jun 25, 2011)

Soledad Eterna said:


> Why does everyone bring this? They were both past their prime at that moment, and for the most part they lack combat feats shown directly in the books. Fending off Aurors like Bellatrix does is a much better feat.



McGonagall fended off Aurors, at least for a small time. And Snape never got caught, which means he must be pretty good at fighting aurors.


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## A Optimistic (Jun 25, 2011)

skiboydoggy said:


> Apart from Snape, only Voldemort has been shown flying without a broom. Even Dumbledore used brooms. Even if it's "just" an advanced charm, it's a pretty fucking advanced charm.




You're slipping, what I'm saying is that spell probably isn't dark magic, pay attention instead of just blindly jumping into the discussion. 





skiboydoggy said:


> That explains why Sectumsempra became widely used amongst the Death Eaters and Levicorpus is just plain one of the most popular spells around. What great magic has Bellatrix shown...?
> 
> Oh, right, none.



What Death Eater used it? Only Harry and Snape used that spell. Yeah Levicorpus was popular with teens in Hogwarts that liked to play fucking pranks on each other, that doesn't compare to dark magic from Lord Voldemort.


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## skiboydoggy (Jun 25, 2011)

Avalon said:


> You're slipping, what I'm saying is that spell probably isn't dark magic, pay attention instead of just blindly jumping into the discussion.



I'm saying that it _doesn't matter_ whether or not flying is dark magic. It's _powerful_ magic and that is what fucking matters. After all, Dumbledore doesn't use any dark magic and he would solo most of the wizards. I'm also going to point out that the teachers did in fact say that Snape probably picked up some tricks from Voldemort, so personal tutoring is also a very real possibility, dark magic aside.



> What Death Eater used it? Only Harry and Snape used that spell. Yeah Levicorpus was popular with teens in Hogwarts that liked to play fucking pranks on each other, that doesn't compare to dark magic from Lord Voldemort.



Re-read Order, pay attention.


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## A Optimistic (Jun 25, 2011)

skiboydoggy said:


> I'm saying that it _doesn't matter_ whether or not flying is dark magic.



Actually it does matter whether it's dark magic or not, that's the whole point because the person that I was responding to said this:



Narcissus said:


> Snape was also either taught dark magic from Vldemort, as the teachers comment when he flies away,





skiboydoggy said:


> It's _powerful_ magic and that is what fucking matters.



Where did I say it wasn't powerful magic? And no, what matters was whether it was dark or not, that was what we were discussing, hence why I told you that you need to pay attention instead of just blindly jumping into a discussion. 




skiboydoggy said:


> After all, Dumbledore doesn't use any dark magic and he would solo most of the wizards.



Dumbledore is in a completely different tier from most Wizards. Bella and Snape are obviously in the same tier and whoever wins this fight is going to win with high difficulty. 





skiboydoggy said:


> I'm also going to point out that the teachers did in fact say that Snape probably picked up some tricks from Voldemort, so personal tutoring is also a very real possibility, dark magic aside.



Yeah, and the teachers probably thought the same about every other Death Eater...because you know, they're all Voldemort's subordinates. 






skiboydoggy said:


> Re-read Order, pay attention.



Concession accepted.


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## Taijukage (Jun 26, 2011)

FireEel said:


> Snape wins with high difficulty.
> 
> Personally, in terms of dark wizards, I rank the top three as Voldemort, Grindlewald and Snape.


Um Salazar Slytherin? Snape isn't really dark. and besides you have Barty Jr (one of the right hand men. he beat and tortured the auror frank longbottom), Dolohov (dueled Sirius evenly and killed Lupin), lucius malfoy (another right hand man and scared the board of school directors into letting him do what he wants. no doubt smart and strong enough to hold his own). Snape was a spy, and Voldy didn't care about his death but screamed in fury when Bella died. But Voldy and Grindelwald are undoubtedly the top Dark Lords ever besides Salazar.


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## Akabara Strauss (Jun 26, 2011)

McGonagal got hit by the spell because she wasnt fighting back she never had her wand out IIRC.

On the case for Snape flying, it is assumed he learned it from Voldemort seeing as Voldemort was the only other one to flew unsupported by anything.


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