# Tsunade vs Gai



## Fragile (May 6, 2013)

*Location:* Sannin Battlefield

*Distance:* 40m

*Knowledge:* Manga

*Mindset:* IC

*Restrictions:* Eigth gate​


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## GermanShepherd (May 6, 2013)

Its been shown that it's hard to kill Tsuande in battle but Gai in 7 gates might be able to pull it off as long as he stays out of her punching/attacking reah. His strength and speed has grown to crazy amounts and I doubt she will be able to hit him. If Gai can speed blitz with repeated K.O techniques then he wins, but it would be a long fight.

 If Gai can't defeat her by the time the 7th gate wares out, he's done. If Tsunade can pull off that technique she used on Kabuto, odds are Gai will be imobile for a good while. Gai needs a fatal blow on Tsunade, meaning a devestating headshot. If Tsunade uses creation rebirth, based on the last chapter, that's what he's going to need to finish her off. However Tsunade has now shown herself worthy of being a Kage and being able to hold her own with overpowered monsters, if not only for a while. lets face it, Gai's gates don't last long, only long enough for him to use his one shot techniques and then is rendered exhausted afterwards. 

I'm giving this to guy high difficulty.


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## PlasticGear (May 6, 2013)

This is one of those threads where it's going to get really ugly, really fast.

Put simply, Tsunade is a bad matchup for Guy. Even though he's more reflexive, arguably stronger and more versatile, and definitely faster, he's limited to Taijutsu which Tsunade is a pretty hard counter against.

I'm going to refrain from this and see how the discussion pans out - i'm actually quite curious as to what will happen.


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## Jad (May 6, 2013)

*Morning Peacock*​
Gai was able to vaporize an entire armada of Sharks that completely dwarfed him, and he did this by fanning out his flames [1]. What do you think is going to happen when Gai *localizes* that amazing feat to one person whose body is made up of 70% water, stated by Dosu? [2] All that heat on one person, up close and personal. In fact, it is one of the best demonstration of fire in the manga. On top of this, Gai has *boulder shattering level of strength at base* [3], he was able to trip Gedo Mazou in Gated form [4], and at the 3rd Gate (or below) was able to break the coral that even Shrouded Naruto couldn't [5]. Imagine those feats flying at Tsunade repeatedly, about 470 to even a 1000 blows in a second (I forgot Kenpachi TZ's calculation but it was roughly around that).

Even Kisame states it can kill the opponent, someone who is a durable beast and has witnessed the technique. What more do you want!?

_"The supersonic hand speed actually causes fiction with the air, setting a fire, then rends the air into a flaming shockwave that *destroys the target!*"_ - *Kisame Hoshigaki*

Just for back-up and clarification. Keyword: backup

_"The "Morning Peacock" is the *certain-kill taijutsu* born from this philosophy of Guy"_ - *Databook*

_"All enemies that faced this technique in the past were *utterly destroyed!* "_ - *Databook* ​
 If he can't kill her, let alone outright knock her out. Than what the hell.


*Kunai Decapitation*​
If you can't understand those points, than how about we revisit the *Minato* thread, where just about everyone said decapitation almost on every post. How about Gai? Nothing huh? His not allowed to is he. Makes sense, his Gai. Doesn't have a Kunai? Wrong [6]. Doesn't use said weapons because its out of character? He used Samehada [7]. His a shinobi, if he has to use a Kunai, then a veteran Shinobi like Gai will. I mean all his gated techniques are killing blows, so it isn't like his afraid. 

Gai has a range of ways to kill Tsunade. Choose your poison.


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## Thunder (May 6, 2013)

Pretty sure Tsunade's _Byakugō_    will outlast Gai's _Hachimon._


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## Sferr (May 6, 2013)

Thunder said:


> Pretty sure Tsunade's _Byakugō_    will outlast Gai's _Hachimon._



Didn't Gai use Hachimon for a longer period time than Tsunade used Byakugo in the war arc?


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## Jad (May 6, 2013)

Thunder said:


> Pretty sure Tsunade's _Byakugō_    will outlast Gai's _Hachimon._



These are your posts in reference to Kimimaro, who is regarded as having the most powerful body and bones like Solid Steel.

[]
[]
[]
Thread source: 

[]
Thread source: 
*Suu *lock's the thread for that one.

So why all of a sudden is Tsunade surviving Gai's blows? You agree with a person who says "_might survive a blow or two from Gai_", considering the emphasis on Kimimaro having bones like Steel.


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## Luftwaffles (May 6, 2013)

Gai nukes Tsunade.


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## Naiad (May 6, 2013)

Tsunade had byakugo used for several hours! I cant remember guy holding a technique that long


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## Sferr (May 6, 2013)

Naiad said:


> Tsunade had byakugo used for several hours! I cant remember guy holding a technique that long



Tsunade and Gai were both fighting at the same time. Tsunade activated Byakugo later then Gai activated Gates and finished using it faster than Gai finished using Gates.


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## Godaime Tsunade (May 6, 2013)

Its been three years, Jad. A mans allowed to change his mind.​​


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## PopoTime (May 6, 2013)

Sferr said:


> Tsunade and Gai were both fighting at the same time. Tsunade activated Byakugo later then Gai activated Gates and finished using it faster than Gai finished using Gates.



Gai wasnt constantly in gates though, there are tons of panels after Tsunade has activated Byakugou where Gai doesnt have any signs of using the Gates (aura, pupilless eyes etc)


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## Godaime Tsunade (May 6, 2013)

It depends on how much chakra she has stored in her seal. A few weeks will grant her the same regeneration she had against Madara, a few months or years will grant her much more.​​


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## Bonly (May 6, 2013)

It comes down to who can outlast who or who will get the killing hit in first IMO.


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## Thunder (May 6, 2013)

Jad said:


> These are your posts in reference to Kimimaro, who is regarded as having the most powerful body and bones like Solid Steel.
> 
> []
> []
> ...



Why are you citing a post made when I was practically still green? Before I even clicked the link I knew it had to be ancient if Suu locked the thread, but three years ago? 

You do realize a person's views can evolve over time or change drastically, right? If you take a look at my other posts from that time-period you'll also notice how I frequently made dumb comments such as "feats only ignore everything else!" and "character statements shouldn't be used in debates here!". It wasn't until like 2012 that I started to pay closer attention to author portrayal and hype.

Link me to a discussion that's a bit more  next time.


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## Kazekage94 (May 6, 2013)

Gai wins here but with high difficulty. Guy is a lot faster than Tsunade. When he opens that gates Tsunade is dead. Tsunade may be able to heal but against the gates she is useless.


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## Jad (May 6, 2013)

Gee, I thought the answer to this thread would be much easier after the Minato thread, which had everyone singing at the top of their lungs "Decapitation" without a seconds thought. What happened to all that buzz?

I mean at the end of the day, there can't be a possible argument against Gai wedging a Kunai in her head if all else fails, which in my opinion would not happen because I think Morning Peacock is enough anyway. But, yeah.


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## RBL (May 6, 2013)

Jad said:


> *Morning Peacock*​
> Gai was able to vaporize an entire armada of Sharks that completely dwarfed him, and he did this by fanning out his flames [1]. What do you think is going to happen when Gai *localizes* that amazing feat to one person whose body is made up of 70% water, stated by Dosu? [2] All that heat on one person, up close and personal. In fact, it is one of the best demonstration of fire in the manga. On top of this, Gai has *boulder shattering level of strength at base* [3], he was able to trip Gedo Mazou in Gated form [4], and at the 3rd Gate (or below) was able to break the coral that even Shrouded Naruto couldn't [5]. Imagine those feats flying at Tsunade repeatedly, about 470 to even a 1000 blows in a second (I forgot Kenpachi TZ's calculation but it was roughly around that).
> 
> Even Kisame states it can kill the opponent, someone who is a durable beast and has witnessed the technique. What more do you want!?
> ...



could not agree more with jad.

on: Gai takes this, do not forget that tsunade is more a healer girl than a warrior,though she is strong as hell, jad has already given all the facts as to why gai wins, i'm just giving you some common sense.


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## Rocky (May 6, 2013)

How does she deal with the issue of being set on fire? When Kisame was hit, the flames remained, they didn't extinguish until he fell in the water.


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## Godaime Tsunade (May 6, 2013)

She takes off her coat, and has a Katsuyu clone remove the rest, I guess.​​


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## bleakwinter (May 6, 2013)

Rocky said:


> How does she deal with the issue of being set on fire? When Kisame was hit, the flames remained, they didn't extinguish until he fell in the water.



When Tsunade's arms were on fire, Byakugo's regeneration had mended the damage completely and extinguished the fire (1). It will literally be the same scenario, only her body instead against Asakujaku. It will const a bit more Chakra, but that should be no problem for someone who has enough to heal an entire village. As for why people believe that Asakujaku would kill her? I'm not sure, we've already concretely seen that Byakugo can heal fire damage and extinguish the flames. We've also seen that her body can recover from highly pressurized, concussive attacks as well.


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## TraderJoe (May 6, 2013)

I believe Gai wins from either Morning Peacock, Afternoon Tiger, or a kunai to the head. If people believe Minato could kill Tsunade with a kunai, why not Gai lol?


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## bleakwinter (May 6, 2013)

Jad said:


> *Morning Peacock*​
> Gai was able to vaporize an entire armada of Sharks that completely dwarfed him, and he did this by fanning out his flames [1]. What do you think is going to happen when Gai *localizes* that amazing feat to one person whose body is made up of 70% water, stated by Dosu?
> [2] All that heat on one person, up close and personal. In fact, it is one of the best demonstration of fire in the manga.



It would do nothing unfortunately. Vaporizing pure water and vaporizing the water in a human are entirely separate processes, the latter of which is much harder to achieve than the former for a plethora of reasons. The water in our body is mixed within blood and other fluids (Intrinsically raising its boiling point) and is protected by various layers (Skin. bones, tissues etc.). So no, just because it's hot enough to evaporate water doesn't make it able to vaporize the liquid in one's body. Placing things in perspective, not even amaterasu can completely vaporize the liquid in a person's body on mere contact (At least in a timely fashion). In fact, the only jutsu that we've seen that is capable of doing what you're suggesting is Pakura's scorch release (1). 



> On top of this, Gai has *boulder shattering level of strength at base* [3], he was able to trip Gedo Mazou in Gated form [4], and at the 3rd Gate (or below) was able to break the coral that even Shrouded Naruto couldn't [5]. Imagine those feats flying at Tsunade repeatedly, about 470 to even a 1000 blows in a second (I forgot Kenpachi TZ's calculation but it was roughly around that).


As I've showed you before, base Gai was able to shatter a boulder, but Haku was able to block one of Gai's named attacks with no damage taken at all. Also, shrouded Naruto doesn't very impressive physical strength (As a direct punch to Kisame only mildly harmed him (2)), so he isn't a great benchmark to use in order amalgamate Gai's strength feats. 



> Even Kisame states it can kill the opponent, someone who is a durable beast and has witnessed the technique. What more do you want!?



As far as I'm concerned, Kisame is no more durable than most other Ninja of his level. His flesh gets sliced and his body gets injured just like anyone else's. Kisame is extremely resilient (As in, he is able to recover from damage very well), but not durable (A term that imples that he can sustain being attacked without becoming damaged). An example of durable Shinobi would be both be Bee, Sage Mode Naruto, and both Raikage (All of which have tanked attacks with no visible damage). You're getting resillience (Which Kisame is) confused with durability (which he isn't).



> _"The supersonic hand speed actually causes fiction with the air, setting a fire, then rends the air into a flaming shockwave that *destroys the target!*"_ - *Kisame Hoshigaki*​



Numerous Jutsu in the history of the series have had arbitrations made about their power such as "It completely destroys the target", "it is certain death", "there is no way to escape" etc. The problem is that there has literally been an exception to every single one of those cases. Tsunade's punches were similarly stated to be a "one-hit killing attack", yet Orochimaru survived one directly to his face. Why? When characters make these sort of inflated statements about the Jutsu, they're based off of conjecture, nothing more.

Similarly, Tsunade's body was sent travelling at _light speed_ through tensou no Jutsu. That kind of friction was stated to be able to rip a normal person apart (Light speed is several orders of magnitude greater than the hypersonic speed that Asakujaku is based on, so it's very likely that )she would survive that as well), yet her Yin Seal had zero difficulty patching up the wounds. I will stress this again: Just because a character claims it is a certain kill, doesn't mean it actually is. There has been an exception to every single "certain kill" attack that we've witnessed thus far. 



> Just for back-up and clarification. Keyword: backup
> 
> _"The "Morning Peacock" is the *certain-kill taijutsu* born from this philosophy of Guy"_ - *Databook*
> 
> _"All enemies that faced this technique in the past were *utterly destroyed!* "_ - *Databook*





> If he can't kill her, let alone outright knock her out. Than what the hell.



I personally don't cite the databook as valid, but if you insist, then: 

"Yin Seal: generation Rebirth If this technique is used, a body whose vital organs are so gravely injuried that it cannot bear it any longer will be instantly restored to its uninjured state.*It's impossible to die by any means*" *Databook* 

Do you see how ludicrous some of the databook statements can be? If you hold it to be true, then that essentially means that Gai cannot kill Tsunade while her Yin Seal is open. 




> *Kunai Decapitation*​
> If you can't understand those points, than how about we revisit the *Minato* thread, where just about everyone said decapitation almost on every post. How about Gai? Nothing huh? His not allowed to is he. Makes sense, his Gai. Doesn't have a Kunai? Wrong [6]. Doesn't use said weapons because its out of character? He used Samehada [7]. His a shinobi, if he has to use a Kunai, then a veteran Shinobi like Gai will. I mean all his gated techniques are killing blows, so it isn't like his afraid.
> 
> Gai has a range of ways to kill Tsunade. Choose your poison.



The issue is that it's not in-character of him to fight with Kunai, much for him to less decapitate someone.The decapitation aspect is brought up in Minato threads because he was shown dismembering something as thick and mobile as Bee's tentacles (1) using his Kunai, whereas Gai has never even attempted doing so. He's never even made an attempt to decapitate someone with an edged weapon. The same applies to Tsunade. She had no problem lifting up Gamabunta's blade and haphazardly slamming it onto Manda (Meaning she does have the capacity to use weapons). Is that now justification for me claiming that Tsunade would use her own Kunai in conjunction with her immense throwing power to send a bullet-speed Kunai at Gai's throat to kill him? She would definitely be capable of that, but the problem is that it is not in-character of her.



TraderJoe said:


> I believe Gai wins from either Morning Peacock, Afternoon Tiger, or a kunai to the head. If people believe Minato could kill Tsunade with a kunai, why not Gai lol?



Minato has feats dismembering someone with a Kunai. Gai does not. Minato incorporates the use of Kunai into his fighting style. Gai does not. Decapitation is a rare even in this manga for a good reason. _It's too difficult to execute against an equally skilled opponent._ Of off the top of my head, I know of three decapitations:

I. *Zabuza decapitating Gato.* Zabuza is a skilled swordsman while Gato isn't even a ninja. This scenario wouldn't apply to Gai vs. Tsunade.
II. *Asuma decpitating Hidan*. To execute this, Asuma needed a second partner (Shikamaru) binding Hidan's movements for Asuma to pull it off. This scenario also wouldn't apply to Gai vs. Tsunade.
III. *Bee and A's double lariat* This one truly puts things into perspective. Both A and Bee are at least at a similar speed level with Gai, yet it still requires two of them to cleanly decapitate an opponent of equal level. This scenario also wouldn't apply to Gai vs. Tsunade.

You're essentially suggesting that Gai is going to decapitate Tsunade (A method which I've already proven is too difficult without special circumstances) with a Kunai that he's never even used in battle at that, when even dedicated sword-specialists needed special circumstances to do so against their foes.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (May 6, 2013)

Rocky said:


> How does she deal with the issue of being set on fire? When Kisame was hit, the flames remained, they didn't extinguish until he fell in the water.



Stop drop and roll.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (May 6, 2013)

TraderJoe said:


> I believe Gai wins from either Morning Peacock, Afternoon Tiger, or a kunai to the head. If people believe Minato could kill Tsunade with a kunai, why not Gai lol?



Minato gets free passes on decapitation because he has a magic RnY trumping kunai, and RnY>>>chidori gatana kusunagi.  So by otherwise being Minato.  Besides, most of the arguments were what would happen if he cut her head off anyway, and lots of people disagreed.  A lot of people even said that he'd just use some unknown fuin jutsu to bypass her byako anyway.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (May 6, 2013)

*Yeah, Tsunade still takes this.*​
Asakujaku doesn't burn hotter than Madara's dragon flame bombs, that Sasuke used to heat the atmosphere.  Only rightfully the jutsu should be better, since Madara's basic katons set the battlefield on fire, and the one he used on Tsunade was already a high grade jutsu.

And before people get weird, yes, the same jutsu can be stronger by having more skilled users.

Sasuke's genin  doesn't break the ground, and the whoosh of Naruto's rasengan defends him, and it sets nothing on fire.

Itachi's, and it explodes lights up some trees behind them

Skill and capacity matter, and Madara was aiming to kill all of the gokage with his attack.


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## Kai (May 6, 2013)

One of the more intensely debated topics.

Tsunade wins in my eyes. Sozo Saisei, Byakugo, and her Senju+Uzumaki heritage should have her endure longer than Gai can with his gates, although Gai is definitely superior to her in pure taijutsu. 

Tsunade high difficulty.


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## joshhookway (May 6, 2013)

Morning peacock sets tsunade on fire


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## Bonly Jr. (May 6, 2013)

joshhookway said:


> Morning peacock sets tsunade on fire



How about I Morning Peacock your dad's bald head?


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## Alita (May 6, 2013)

The moment gai uses afternoon tiger he wins. That attack is far more powerful than anything tsunade has shown to regen from and has enough AOE to wipe her out completely.


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## Sferr (May 6, 2013)

PopoTime said:


> Gai wasnt constantly in gates though, there are tons of panels after Tsunade has activated Byakugou where Gai doesnt have any signs of using the Gates (aura, pupilless eyes etc)



Yeah, Gai was switching the Gates on and off entire time. What will stop him doing the same against Tsunade?


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## Mithos (May 6, 2013)

Sferr said:


> Yeah, Gai was switching the Gates on and off entire time. What will stop him doing the same against Tsunade?



The fact that he's no match - or threat -  without them.



Alita54 said:


> The moment gai uses afternoon tiger he wins. That attack is far more powerful than anything tsunade has shown to regen from and has enough AOE to wipe her out completely.



It's not going to vaporize her or blow her into tiny pieces. Kisame was completely in tact. The most it will do is break her bones and/or rupture her organs -  damage that Tsunade has shown she can easily deal with via Byakugou.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (May 6, 2013)

Gai is not outlasting or killing tsunade before he submits to the effects of the gates i mean come on. Tsunade can use a seal to store up stupid amounts of chakra and heal villages and shit while guy gets noticeable exhausted using the sixth and seven gates. 

Tsunade being a uzumaki/senju hybrid further slams the fact she can outlast. Raikage noted that tsunade was just fighting like a mad woman so she was obviously regenerating a bunch of times and still had enough chakra to charge people up to super levels. Guy has never done nothing like that so guy outlasting tsunade is not happening imo.

Gai's superior speed means nothing when he tires and he will not be able to rest with tsunade on his ass and she is know for her relentless resilience. I do not really think a afternoon tiger will come into effect but that is the only way he will be able to get some rest. Still he just ain't got the reserves to outlast tsunade.

Tsunade high diff due to gai's high speed maneuvers though.


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## Jad (May 6, 2013)

Gai could beat her using the 4th or 5th Gate, simply by weilding a Kunai. He can decapitate her slowly if need be. But using his augmented strength, he should be able to impale Tsunade through the skull with a Kunai at the speed he rockets at. Tsunade can't do anything to respond to Ura Renge Kunai Rape, considering it was meant to disable Neji through high speed combo. *Wedge a Kunai in her head and leaves it in there*. What is so difficult to understand? Gai has precise reflexes, he uses Nunchuku's, was able to hit a mark without looking dead center in the middle, and was able to block an attack from behind again without looking.

There is no avoiding in mid-air. So he will have free reign of blind siding her at every punch, kick, and stabby stab stab.

You just don't like the idea of Gai using a Kunai because it completely circumvents her regeneration in your mind. Yeah, he will use Morning Peacock first, but upon realizing she is regenerating (even though this won't happen - trying to kill this debate as easily as possible), he will try a different route. His a Ninja, he has his own bag full of Ninja goodies. Why not put them to good use?

Are you going to tell me instead of using a simple ninja tool located at the back of his pocket, which can end this fight, he rather die? Yeah sure, good one.

I will respond to your posts about Morning Peacock, but I am busy.


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## joshhookway (May 7, 2013)

Now to think of it, Gai could win without Gates. He's nunchukus destroyed boulders. Gai could destroy Tsunade's head with Nunchukus.


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## Sablés (May 7, 2013)

Gai shouldn't be able to defeat Tsunade with anything less than the 6th gate. Tsunade's regeneration makes her too difficult to kill and he lacks the durability feats to survive her punches for long.


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## ueharakk (May 7, 2013)

Why Kishi?  Why can't you allow Tsunade to use gates?  With Gates she actually might be hokage-level.


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## Seiji (May 7, 2013)

The last two times this thread was made, it turned into a shitstorm. Let's see how it plays this time. 

Leaning towards Gai at the moment. Once he discovers Tsunade's regenerative abilities, I'd doubt that he wouldn't aim for the head the next time around. Either Asa Kujaku or Hirudora should do the job 'n I don't think she'd survive with a vaporized head. 

Lol at Gai beating her with his nunchucks though.


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## FlamingRain (May 7, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> Why Kishi?  Why can't you allow Tsunade to use gates?  With Gates she actually might be hokage-level.



Right before the Madara fight I envisioned Tsunade using the 8th Gate and surviving with Sozo Saisei. She would have basically been a regenerating Raikage with vastly superior strength. The undisputed most dangerous Taijutsu user in the manga. :amazed

But then we got Sozo Saisei version 2. . . Kishi. . .


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## bleakwinter (May 7, 2013)

Siriυs said:


> Leaning towards Gai at the moment. Once he discovers Tsunade's regenerative abilities, I'd doubt that he wouldn't aim for the head the next time around. Either Asa Kujaku or Hirudora should do the job 'n I don't think she'd survive with a vaporized head.



Similarly, being sent through light speed travel at 298000000 meters per second should have vaporized her whole body, yet didn't do so. I'm not sure why you think either Asakujaku nor Hirudora (Which didn't even visibly incinerate their targets, much less vaporize them), could accomplish something that even Mabui's tenso no Jutsu could not. As I've mentioned once before, not even Amaterasu can vaporize its targets.


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## Jad (May 7, 2013)

bleakwinter said:


> Similarly, being sent through light speed travel at 298000000 meters per second should have vaporized her whole body, yet didn't do so. I'm not sure why you think either Asakujaku nor Hirudora (Which didn't even visibly incinerate their targets, much less vaporize them), could accomplish something that even Mabui's tenso no Jutsu could not. As I've mentioned once before, not even Amaterasu can vaporize its targets.



The fact that the jutsu doesn't vaporize objects when they travel through lightspeed, is an indication that this *ninjutsu* has properties that are unlike the characteristics of real lightning. The objects don't even present a 'steam' to them. Jutsu only causes lacerations.

Also Morning Peacock was used almost 5 years ago, the fact that in the same arc, Gai beat his exact copy, indicated he got stronger. About 250+ chapters later (which is huge amount of time passing by), do you really think you should use the last use of the technique, but rather the new feat of it vaporizing a TSUNAMI of water in one page, while he fanned out the flames. Considering Dosu (the lore of Kishimoto) has already stated people are of 70% made of water. All that heat targeted at one aspect of the body. You don't even think it will knock her out if it was aimed at the head? Come on.

What part of Gai FANNING out his flames to vaporize an OCEAN of water Barreling down on him in one panel, and him localizing all that heat on one person don't you understand? What part of "Brain Dead" or "Unconscious" is it that is so confusing?

*Even Kisame STATES it in MANGA, I don't even need to use the Databook, that it DESTROYS the target.* Try that on for size.

Also Tsunade HAS NEVER shown a durability feat on par with 470 to 1000 punches of Gai's strength. He even tripped Gedo Mazou by simply hitting it in the pinky. You can't even say she 'tanked' Madara's Yasaka Magmata, because she stayed in the exact same spot healing her injuries, which may have encompassed both that attack and Madara piercing her. 

As for Gai not using a Kunai because it is out of character for him. Your reasoning is flawed, Gai carries around Kunai's for a reason. I mean someone as skilled as Gai who could nail a target without looking, hasn't used a Kunai before? He wielded *Samehada for crying out loud*. You don't even need skill to chop someones head off if you can attack them with the most fastest moving hands couple with ABOVE boulder shattering strength. Hell, he doesn't even need to decap her, all he needs to do is wedge a Kunai in her head and leave it.

Do you know what is says in his databook? Gai is *Highly Proficient with Weapons*


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 8, 2013)

7 Gates Gai swings his nun-chucks upside Tsunades head aka instant death.

No seriously at the speeds 7 Gate Gai can move and the strength he has, his nun-chucks would decimate tsunades head. At the very least she would be unconscious from having her brain hit so hard. 

Gai wins.


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## Mithos (May 8, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> 7 Gates Gai swings his nun-chucks upside Tsunades head aka instant death.
> 
> No seriously at the speeds 7 Gate Gai can move and the strength he has, his nun-chucks would decimate tsunades head. At the very least she would be unconscious from having her brain hit so hard.
> 
> Gai wins.



Tsunade should have lost conciousness when her spine was severed - but it didn't faze her. She can even remain concious after being split in two. 

Gai is not 'decimating' her head, nor is he knocking her unconcious with Byakugou active.

Gai is one of the most overrated characters - according to this forum he can blitz kill almost any kage with a kunai, vaporize them with unavoidable attacks, or make their heads explode with a swing of his nunchuks. It's absolutely insane.



Jad said:


> *Even Kisame STATES it in MANGA, I don't even need to use the Databook, that it DESTROYS the target.* Try that on for size.



It's also been mentioned more than once that Tsunade's regeneration prevents her from dying in battle, ever. If you're going to use the hype for Gai's attacks, you must also use the hype for Tsunade's techniques as well. And just as Tsunade has shown to regenerate from any level of damage Gai has shown he can inflict, her hype also beats the level of damage he can supposedly dish out.


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## Jad (May 8, 2013)

Matto-sama said:


> It's also been mentioned more than once that Tsunade's regeneration prevents her from dying in battle, ever. If you're going to use the hype for Gai's attacks, you must also use the hype for Tsunade's techniques as well. And just as Tsunade has shown to regenerate from any level of damage Gai has shown he can inflict, her hype also beats the level of damage he can supposedly dish out.



Oh, beautiful. How about I throw this one at you.

You guys love using the Databook "Tsunade is immortal, can't die". But when I use the Databook, no when I use Manga Statements from Gai's opponent, and it says "Kill, Destroy", it's instantly refuted? We know how Tsunade jutsu works, you get hit, than she heals. If the hit=kill, than why is she healing. Also, if the hit CAN kill, than how is she staying conscious?

I am using your logic.

Hiruzen's jutsu: Link removed
Katon: Karyū Endan: Databook stated to turn people into ash in seconds

Couldn't even get passed Tobirama's Water Jutsu (he wasn't at full power at this point)

Gai - Morning Peacock Vaporizes in a panel an oceanic wave of water.

Morning Peacock > Katon Karyu Endan

Looks like someone is turning into Ash. NOT ALLOWED TO USE DATABOOK JAD, JUST TSUNADE FANS. Oh, I forgot.


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## bleakwinter (May 8, 2013)

Jad said:


> The fact that the jutsu doesn't vaporize objects when they travel through lightspeed, is an indication that this *ninjutsu* has properties that are unlike the characteristics of real lightning.


I never said anything about real lighting and neither did Mabui in the scan (FYI, Real lightning is full orders of magnitude slower than the speed of light anyway). The point of me mentioning that fact was simply to illustrate how nonsensical it is to claim that the friction from Asakujaku will vaporize Tsunade, whereas the friction from going at the speed of light did not (Gai's punches that ignire the air are not faster than the speed of light).



> The objects don't even present a 'steam' to them. Jutsu only causes lacerations.


Valid point. Unfortunately the same would apply to Hirudora and Asakujaku, as they have not inflicted a single visible burn on any of their victims (Muchless full-blown evaporation which not even Amaterasu has acconmplished).




> Also Morning Peacock was used almost 5 years ago, the fact that in the same arc, Gai beat his exact copy, indicated he got stronger. About 250+ chapters later (which is huge amount of time passing by), do you really think you should use the last use of the technique



The time gap isn't signifficant. We have no idea of Gai had made Asakujaku stronger, particularly since they each look identical in any of the cases they were used. Whenever a Jutsu attack was illustrated to have become stronger, it was clearly outlines either in words or in portrayal. Asakujaku's feats have remained static.



> but rather the new feat of it vaporizing a TSUNAMI of water in one page, while he fanned out the flames. Considering Dosu (the lore of Kishimoto) has already stated people are of 70% made of water. All that heat targeted at one aspect of the body. You don't even think it will knock her out if it was aimed at the head? Come on.


Realistically, Gai did not evaporate that entire wall of water sharks. Even after using Asakujaku on the wall of sharks, still Gai claims "*There are too many*", (1) which confidently shows that Asakujaku hadn't destroyed most of them. As for aiming it at her head, Tsunade simply swats them out of her face to protect her head, essentially repeating her feat of doing so against Madara's fireballs (1). 



> What part of Gai FANNING out his flames to vaporize an OCEAN of water Barreling down on him in one panel, and him localizing all that heat on one person don't you understand?



That's grossly overexaggerated. He didn't vaporize an ocean of water. He destroyed _some_ of the sharks on a wall of suiton sharks. As stated before, it's not going to vaporize Tsunade for several reasons.

I. As I've told you before, a human body is far more difficult to vaporize then a body of water even for the same volume of water. Amaterasu has hit multiple human targets and has not ever vaporized one of them. The question now is: Do you believe that Asakujaku is hotter than Amaterasu? The answer should clearly be no. Asakujaku has no chance of ever vaporizing human target when a superior flame technique could not. 

II. Byakugo *extinguishes flames * as it regenerates the victim (2). This is pretty irrefutable proof that it isn't going to burn on her long enough to even come close to vaporizing her. 




> What part of "Brain Dead" or "Unconscious" is it that is so confusing?


Because a person whose body is constantly regenerating and healing itself will not experience those afflictions you mentioned?. Placing things into perpective, Tsunade's injuries far were worse than any other Kage's (She was bisected), yet she was still the only one of them who was conscious. She was also perfectly conscious in the village-wiping Shinra Tensei as well. She isn't an easy foe to knock unconcious with her regeneration repairing damage before it can accumulate and induce her body to become unconcious. 



> *Even Kisame STATES it in MANGA, I don't even need to use the Databook, that it DESTROYS the target.* Try that on for size.



Kisame has never seen the technique before that point. Anything he states is pure conjecture. Honestly, in general you should be keen enough by now to realize that those types of statements in the manga mean little when compared alongside a given Jutsu's actual feats. Orochimaru claimed that even one hit from Tsunade could end someone's life (3) , yet he sustained one of her punches and was hardly injured at all, much less killed. Why? Because Orochimaru's extremely durable and he has never fought against Tsunade prior to that encounter, making it only conjecture about what the attack would do. I can literally provide you with a list of examples were some given Jutsu was stated to be infallible in it's ability, only to be proven wrong. 



> Also Tsunade HAS NEVER shown a durability feat on par with 470 to 1000 punches of Gai's strength. He even tripped Gedo Mazou by simply hitting it in the pinky. You can't even say she 'tanked' Madara's Yasaka Magmata, because she stayed in the exact same spot healing her injuries, which may have encompassed both that attack and Madara piercing her.



Gai has _never_ been shown to be able throw 470-1000 punches in an instant. You'll have to post a scan of where that number is even remotely derived from. I'll place it into perspective.For Asakujaku, one flame is created per punch (4). That would mean only roughly 20-60 punches were thrown during Asakujaku (Which is roughly the amount of flames if you count them). Were those punches super fast? Absolutely. Were they 1000 punches? Absolutely not.




> As for Gai not using a Kunai because it is out of character for him. Your reasoning is flawed, Gai carries around Kunai's for a reason. I mean someone as skilled as Gai who could nail a target without looking, hasn't used a Kunai before? He wielded *Samehada for crying out loud*. You don't even need skill to chop someones head off if you can attack them with the most fastest moving hands couple with ABOVE boulder shattering strength. Hell, he doesn't even need to decap her, all he needs to do is wedge a Kunai in her head and leave it.


Most ninja carry around Kunai, but that doesn't imply that they have a propensity toward being able to decapitate someone. Similarly Tsunade could theoretically summon Katsuyu a millimeter above Gai's head and crush him. She could also throw a Kunai at Gai at such absurd speeds due to her strength that it would be near unavoidable. She could also summon Katsuyu in front of herself against either Hirudora or Asakujaku, pretty much shielding Tsunade from any of Gai's special attacks (Albeit destroying Katsuyu in the process). She could also just jump 100 meters up into the air (4) clear over Asakujaku or Hirudora, effectively avoiding them. Tsunade, in theory, could do all of these things but they're almost _never_ used in a debate because Tsunade has no tendency toward doing any of those things in character. The same applies to Gai. He has never even attempted striking a foe with a Kunai (Whereas most characters have at least done that, meaning Gai is especially unlikely to ever try assaulting his foe with one), now you're saying he will all of the sudden attempt decapitating her with an object that he hasn't even used in a fight based on his character tendencies? 



> Do you know what is says in his databook? Gai is *Highly Proficient with Weapons*



Like I said before, the databook's aren't very sensible compared to what actually occurs in the series. How is he highly proficient with weapons on panel when he's only wielded one on-panel? (He merely grabbed Samehada for a brief moment until it rejected him. That's hardly wielding).  I prefer not to use the databooks at all, but the ultimatum you're placing yourself in is this: The more you use the databook to justify Gai's proficiencies, the more free reign it gives myself to use the databook to claim that Tsunade cannot die at all against Gai with Yin seal active (Because that's what it states in crystal-clear terms). Of course, if you're willing to drop all mention of the databook as a valid source (Because it honestly isn't), then I will not use this argument.

*Concluding statement:* I'm sure we could go back and forth endlessly about whether Gai's gated Jutsu will blow Tsunade apart or whether her regeneration will recover her perfectly fine. However, the fact is that you're still ignoring the most rudimentary stipulations of the thread. Gai is IC, meaning he will not use gates immediately. He also only has manga knowledge, essentially meaning he knows nothing about her strength (Tsunade's is famed for her medical prowess, not her strength, as even Kabuto, Someone who has intel on almost every leaf Shinobi,had no idea of her strength until witnessing it). He'll block one of her punches at the start of the fight (Believing them to be normal punches), and then will be missing his arm. Even Madara didn't know about her immense strength until she placed cracks into his Susanoo (4). Placing things into perspective, the 30% Kisame clone was able to land a punch on Gai (5) *before* Gai felt pressured enough to activate his gates. If one simply replaced Tsunade with Kisame in that very same panel, Gai would no longer be alive.


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## Innerhype (May 8, 2013)

Stop being ridiculous.

Talks about friction can't be applied to Mabui's transfer technique because I doubt objects experience any friction at all at lightspeed. You're scaling it up while ignoring physics and Mabui's technique would be useless if all the items she sends through it gets turned to dust and ash..

And you seen the wall of sharks about to collapse on Gai from in front of him, regardless of the number of  sharks that survived tens of thousands of gallons or more of water was turned to vapor instantly after _Asakujaku _was used. Speaking of, the heat coming from Gai's punches wouldn't hurt as much as the punch itself anyways and from the way his fists has been described, to do that within atmosphere require exceeding orbital velocities so 1000s of punches in a second is easily plausible.

And lastly I just want to say I feel the databooks have more pull than manga feats do because feats can be interpreted *far *differently from person to person unless that feat is spelled out clearly which doesn't happen all the time while the DBs actually do spell things out.


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## Jad (May 8, 2013)

I will respond to your post Bleakwinter, but I said Gai punches 470 (which would not cause any friction (about Mach 1) to 1000 punches,  because Kisame states "His punches are *supersonic*", and that is 329 m/s. Gai's arms are not 1 meter long.


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## bleakwinter (May 8, 2013)

Innerhype said:


> Stop being ridiculous.
> 
> Talks about friction can't be applied to Mabui's transfer technique because I doubt objects experience any friction at all at lightspeed. You're scaling it up while ignoring physics and Mabui's technique would be useless if all the items she sends through it gets turned to dust and ash..



Friction is simply molecular collision. Everything experiences friction (Friction is the reason why a ball doesn't keep bouncing on its own infinitely). You're experiencing friction just by existing. To say it doesn't occur at the speed of light makes no sense (When really, moving at the speed of light is as intense as friction can possibly get). What's ridiculous is how you are cherry-picking how physics should be applied in this manga to tailor your arguments in Gai's favor, when you should be apply physics more fairly. Why is the friction from Gai's Asakujaku allowed to apply, while the friction from moving at light speed gets to be ignored? It makes zero sense.

Also, Mabui clearly stated that the the Tenso no Jutsu _was designed_ to work on objects, but not humans, which would make sense why an object would get ripped apart, but not a human. 




> And you seen the wall of sharks about to collapse on Gai from in front of him, regardless of the number of  sharks that survived tens of thousands of gallons or more of water was turned to vapor instantly after _Asakujaku _was used.


...Yet Kisame, the only human target that we've seen Asakujaku's effects on, wasn't vaporized instantly at all after being it hit by Asakujaku (1). It's feats on a human target are what matters are here.  The Kisame clone had enough time to be sent flying into the air into the lake before the water extinguished the flames. His body wasn't vaporized instantly at all. Likewise, I've already showed that Byakugo's healing _extinguishes fire _ (2), making it implausible to suggest that Tsunade will be vaporized instantly before Byakugo can extinguish the flames, when even the Kisame clone wasn't vaporized before the water in the lake extinguished the flames. There's a stark difference between how Asakujaku (And all fire actually) works on pure water in contrast to how it works on humans. 



> Speaking of, the heat coming from Gai's punches wouldn't hurt as much as the punch itself anyways and from the way his fists has been described, to do that within atmosphere require exceeding orbital velocities so 1000s of punches in a second is easily plausible.


As I've stated before, Asakujaku only creates one flame ember per punch that Gai throws. If you bothered counting how many flames there are in any of his Asakujaku usages, you'd see that there are only about 60 flames, not 1000, showing that Gai threw roughly 60 punches in a second, not 1000. 



> And lastly I just want to say I feel the databooks have more pull than manga feats do because feats can be interpreted *far *differently from person to person unless that feat is spelled out clearly which doesn't happen all the time while the DBs actually do spell things out.



As I've mentioned before, if you're using the databooks in this thread, you're essentially conceeding to Gai's defeat. If you'd like to take the databook as fact, then this wouldn't even be a debate, as it states that _Tsunade cannot die by any means with Yin seal active_. Gai cannot kill her through Byakugo. Period.


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## Innerhype (May 9, 2013)

bleakwinter said:


> Friction is simply molecular collision. Everything experiences friction (Friction is the reason why a ball doesn't keep bouncing on its own infinitely). You're experiencing friction just by existing. To say it doesn't occur at the speed of light makes no sense (When really, moving at the speed of light is as intense as friction can possibly get). What's ridiculous is how you are cherry-picking how physics should be applied in this manga to tailor your arguments in Gai's favor, when you should be apply physics more fairly. Why *is the friction from Gai's Asakujaku allowed to apply, while the friction from moving at light speed gets to be ignored? It makes zero sense.*



Essentially it's because all of the strikes Gai used were being lit on fire from speed and it lit _Kisame _completely on fire too while both _Tsunade _and _A _sustained injuries that doesn't look like they were from being on fire.



bleakwinter said:


> Also, Mabui clearly stated that the the Tenso no Jutsu _was designed_ to work on objects, but not humans, which would make sense why an object would get ripped apart, but not a human.



True, which is beginning to lead me to think the technique has more to do with something other than friction from sheer speed. If heating from friction increased at a constant rate up to the speed of light, the temperatures Tsunade would had to have endured for that one instant is _unimaginable_, needless to say any fire shown in any manga would pale in comparison.



bleakwinter said:


> ...Yet Kisame, the only human target that we've seen Asakujaku's effects on, wasn't vaporized instantly at all after being it hit by Asakujaku (1). It's feats on a human target are what matters are here.  The Kisame clone had enough time to be sent flying into the air into the lake before the water extinguished the flames. His body wasn't vaporized instantly at all. Likewise, I've already showed that Byakugo's healing _extinguishes fire _ (2), making it implausible to suggest that Tsunade will be vaporized instantly before Byakugo can extinguish the flames, when even the Kisame clone wasn't vaporized before the water in the lake extinguished the flames. There's a stark difference between how Asakujaku (And all fire actually) works on pure water in contrast to how it works on humans.



I'm not the one suggesting Tsunade gets instantly vaporized, I'm saying the incredible heat that is going to be generated from _hypervelocity _punches that with impact Tsunade are merely a neat bonus that's dangerous by itself.



bleakwinter said:


> As I've stated before, Asakujaku only creates one flame ember per punch that Gai throws. If you bothered counting how many flames there are in any of his Asakujaku usages, you'd see that there are only about 60 flames, not 1000, showing that Gai threw roughly 60 punches in a second, not 1000.



I didn't bother counting flames because I know it doesn't matter, _Asakujaku _has been described in the manga and databook book the same way and judging from that I can say 1000s of punches are let loose when it is used. If we count flame embers like you have it doesn't look nearly as impressive(not that that's the point) especially when someone in RL can throw 13 punches in a second (1).  



bleakwinter said:


> As I've mentioned before, if you're using the databooks in this thread, you're essentially conceeding to Gai's defeat. If you'd like to take the databook as fact, then this wouldn't even be a debate, as it states that _Tsunade cannot die by any means with Yin seal active_. Gai cannot kill her through Byakugo. Period.



If we exclude the few obviously exaggerated comments and not take them literal the databook is a source I hold above manga feats and it's true here I feel; _Tsunade _can't die in battle but even if that is true she can't win a fight if she is decapitated. No one who is immortal can.


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## timmysblood (May 9, 2013)

If you go by manga logic where characters stand around after hitting there opponents I could see how you think Tsunade can win. However if you go by real world logic where fighters continue to beat on there opponents as there going down and when there on the floor and and curb stomp them I don't see how Tsuande wins here. 

All Gai has to do is beat her to the ground once and continually bash her head in until she runs out of regeneration or her brain becomes mush.


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## FlamingRain (May 9, 2013)

Good thing we're talking about manga characters


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## The Pirate on Wheels (May 9, 2013)

An ascending dragon of flames, consuming the enemy with sharp fangs burning brightly!!

Compressing a great amount of chakra build up inside the body and changing its shape into that of a blazing dragon. Then skilfully manipulating that great fire, one attacks the enemy before one's eyes! If this technique is mastered, it is also possible to fire off several flames after each other. Even outside of the attack range, its power and reliability are stressed. *The flames have such a high temperature, they can create updraughts which in turn give rise to cumulonimbus clouds*?! *The fate of the person caught in the dragon flame's sharp fangs is to be reduced to ashes in an instant...!!*

The dragon's roar that even burns the Heavens!!

[picture of Sasuke using the Great Dragon Fire Technique]
[picture of Itachi barely evading the Great Dragon Fire Technique]
↑→The released flames are shaped into the form of a dragon and rush down on the target! *The pursuit won't stop until the helpless target is consumed by flames!*

? Cumulonimbus clouds are large, dark-grey rain clouds involved in thunderstorms and other intense weather.


These are the dragon bombs Tsunade slammed her arms into to bat away.  They also bust through stone ceilings and stuff, and the Databook says that: Even outside of the attack range, its power and reliability are stressed.

They also match Guy's best strength feat of busting through a solid wall.

Yay databook.


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## LostSelf (May 9, 2013)

Gai wins.

There are some things to consider here. One of them is how long will Tsunade be able to regenerate from Gai's attacks with soushuga. As he, in base, was easily shattering big boulders with ease, Gai can start making damage in base.

And Gai's superiority in taijutsu was proven when he fought Obito, someone that forced Minato to use Hiraishin to tag him and was kicking BM Naruto's ass in CqC. even with Sharingan precog, Obito was unable to lay a hand on Gai and was forced to phase. Fighting Gai with Soushuga would make Tsunade back up with every hit as i don't believe she can shrug off the damage that easily and attack like nothing happened. Gai's superiority in taijutsu, speed, reflexes and skill in CqC combined with his deadly hits would give him a good advantage even in base, against Tsunade.

Then we have gates. That will give Gai absolute dominance in the fight while it last. Having advantage in base won't be enough for sure, here is where is debatable if Tsunade can outlast Gai regenerating from Soushuga enhanced hits enough to cause severe damage to her body or head. It's not a sure thing, but in my eyes, Gai would end up outlasting her if he keeps hitting heri n vital parts of her body (like the head) with Soushuga. At some point he will deal more damage than Madara did to her with his constant hits. I would give it to Gai here.

And if this is not enough, beheading her or cutting her throat is not impossible as some people are arguing. If this is Gai's only chance of winning, i bet he would, specially having manga knowledge, it's quite ilogical for him to keep attacking her knowing that she can outlast him if he can do it easy and slash her throat multiple times.

And this last point is why i give it definitely to Gai with high dificulty.


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## Okodi (May 9, 2013)

Why are you guys so focused on the Databooklets says? Have you forgotten the importance that *BOTH fighters influence the outcome!* _Chakra quality/strength is a factor when two techniques meet up!_ That is why Hiruzen's attack failed against Tobirama. That and the fact that it went up against water. It can also be likened to Naruto's first Rasengan attempts when he wasn't able to pump the chakra into the attack in the correct/most optimal way.

Tsunade may have less stamina than Gai according to the Databooklet (4 and 5 respectively). But storage techniques are not accounted for, nor are gates. And don't forget that she has other defenses other than her regeneration. She was the reason why some shinobis survived Pain's Shinra Tensei. With Katsuyu assisting her she could get shrouded if she needed too.

She won't be able to "medicnin evade" the attacks but they won't get her killed. And she won't have to share her chakra with others as she did when figthing Madara along with the other Kages (meaning longer regeneration time).


Gai is a strong shinobi. He is great at wielding weapons. He has great taijutsu. His 7th gate is devastating but Tsunade may just have enough defence to counter it. It will be a close battle, but if Gai cannot pass Tsunade's defences (regeneration, Katsuyu) then once he has used his ultimate attack it will be over.

For me Tsunade would win this after a close battle.

*EDIT:*
For Gai to win he would need to never get hit by Tsunade for three reasons.

1. Enhanced strength would damage him extremely
2. Chakra scalpels with which she could cut of tendons
3. Chakra circulation rewiring

The 2nd and 3rd things would leave Gai unable to fight unless the wound gate could do enough to counter it. But it would surely shorten his time using Hachimon as well if he has to reheal from those.


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## FlamingRain (May 9, 2013)

TheIronMan said:


> Gai wins.
> 
> There are some things to consider here. One of them is how long will Tsunade be able to regenerate from Gai's attacks with soushuga. As he, in base, was easily shattering big boulders with ease, Gai can start making damage in base.
> 
> And Gai's superiority in taijutsu was proven when he fought Obito, someone that forced Minato to use Hiraishin to tag him and was kicking BM Naruto's ass in CqC. even with Sharingan precog, Obito was unable to lay a hand on Gai and was forced to phase. Fighting Gai with Soushuga would make Tsunade back up with every hit as i don't believe she can shrug off the damage that easily and attack like nothing happened. Gai's superiority in taijutsu, speed, reflexes and skill in CqC combined with his deadly hits would give him a good advantage even in base, against Tsunade.



Madara's _Yasaka Magatama_ sends people_ flying into_ big boulders with enough force to shatter them. In spite of that, Tsunade didn't take any damage from it (not noticeable at least).

Will Gai's strikes hurt? Yes. Will they get him anywhere while he's in base to give him an advantage? Probably not, especially with _Byakugo no Jutsu_.

I agree that Gai is superior to her in Taijutsu but not because he fought someone who Minato used _Hiraishin_ to tag. . .Minato never had a problem with Obito's skill, it was his ability to change from tangible to intangible or warp people. He just had to come up with a quicker way to get the jump on him, which Hiraishin is perfect for.

Gai's probably more skilled than Minato as well. . .imo.
. 


> Then we have gates. That will give Gai absolute dominance in the fight while it last. Having advantage in base won't be enough for sure, here is where is debatable if Tsunade can outlast Gai regenerating from Soushuga enhanced hits enough to cause severe damage to her body or head. It's not a sure thing, but in my eyes, Gai would end up outlasting her if he keeps hitting heri n vital parts of her body (like the head) with Soushuga. At some point he will deal more damage than Madara did to her with his constant hits. I would give it to Gai here.



Gai would have to deal as much damage as Madara did _and then some_, since Tsunade was handing out large amounts of chakra to her peers as well- meaning she tired out a lot quicker than she would have in a one-on-one match like this.



> And if this is not enough, beheading her or cutting her throat is not impossible as some people are arguing. If this is Gai's only chance of winning, i bet he would, specially having manga knowledge, it's quite ilogical for him to keep attacking her knowing that she can outlast him if he can do it easy and slash her throat multiple times.
> 
> And this last point is why i give it definitely to Gai with high dificulty.



Of course it isn't impossible that he _could_, but the question should be if he_would_. In time. He's never tried such before, and even if he does come to that conclusion it seems more likely that _before_ Gai would resort to such a tactic, a Tsunade who isn't having any luck getting anywhere would resort to her faked death tactic- pretending Gai finally dealt her enough damage until he turns around. . .then thwack.


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## LostSelf (May 9, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> Madara's _Yasaka Magatama_ sends people_ flying into_ big boulders with enough force to shatter them. In spite of that, Tsunade didn't take any damage from it (not noticeable at least).



Tsunade was hit by a Mini magatama that's not comparable in power to what a normal would be. Also, Tsunade might have been regenerating the moment she was sent flying if Byakugo heals you instantly.



> Will Gai's strikes hurt? Yes. Will they get him anywhere while he's in base to give him an advantage? Probably not, especially with _Byakugo no Jutsu_.



Get him anywhere no, but maker he use healing jutsus to regenerate, yes.



> I agree that Gai is superior to her in Taijutsu but not because he fought someone who Minato used _Hiraishin_ to tag. . .Minato never had a problem with Obito's skill, it was his ability to change from tangible to intangible or warp people. He just had to come up with a quicker way to get the jump on him, which Hiraishin is perfect for.



Quicker way not. An instant jutsu is the only thing that would work against Obito in a one on one. Hiraishin, Amaterasu and Shinra Tensei, for example. However, BM Naruto failing to accomplish what Gai (Though none of them was able to hit Obito) and being hit by Tobi when Gai forced him to phase says a lot. And that was in base.



> Gai's probably more skilled than Minato as well. . .imo.


. 
Until Minato shows more feats, yes.



> Gai would have to deal as much damage as Madara did _and then some_, since Tsunade was handing out large amounts of chakra to her peers as well- meaning she tired out a lot quicker than she would have in a one-on-one match like this.



And she was being protected as well. The amount of damage that Gai can deal her hitting her constantly with soushuga would definitely become more than Madara's in some time. Before his gates runs out.



> Of course it isn't impossible that he _could_, but the question should be if he_would_. In time. He's never tried such before, and even if he does come to that conclusion it seems more likely that _before_ Gai would resort to such a tactic, a Tsunade who isn't having any luck getting anywhere would resort to her faked death tactic- pretending Gai finally dealt her enough damage until he turns around. . .then thwack.



He has never tried that because when Gai went gates, his oponent lasted mere panels and it was not enough to do it. He has manga knowledge and he should know about her regeneration and feats in Pain's arc. Going for a vital part of her body and not risking his life kicking and punching her is very logical and likely.


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## Rocky (May 9, 2013)

TheIronMan said:


> as i don't believe she can shrug off the damage that easily and attack like nothing happened.


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## LostSelf (May 9, 2013)

Gai is not Susano'o and would not be outspeed by Tsunade in any form. It would be the other way around, though. We also don't know if Tsunade shrugged of the damage before attacking.


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## FlamingRain (May 9, 2013)

TheIronMan said:


> Tsunade was hit by a Mini magatama that's not comparable in power to what a normal would be. Also, Tsunade might have been regenerating the moment she was sent flying if Byakugo heals you instantly.



The mini Magatama is what I'm referring to. When it hit her, she went flying into the boulder hard enough to shatter it. The impact of the jutsu itself would obviously be more destructive than the impact of Tsunade flying into the bounder.

She was just finishing up the wound from Susano'o impaling her, so. . .it doesn't look like that was the case.

She tanked it.



> Get him anywhere no, but maker he use healing jutsus to regenerate, yes.



Sorry, I think I misinterpreted you then. It seems like we're agreed here.



> Quicker way not. An instant jutsu is the only thing that would work against Obito in a one on one. Hiraishin, Amaterasu and Shinra Tensei, for example. However, BM Naruto failing to accomplish what Gai (Though none of them was able to hit Obito) and being hit by Tobi when Gai forced him to phase says a lot. And that was in base.



"Quicker way" because, he needed to avoid being touched and be able to hit him with a Rasengan. So instead of getting in his face, ducking his grab, and then using Rasengan (because Obito would notice and go intangible too quickly)- he tried to just get a straight shot, no maneuver or anything, from behind by teleporting to the seal behind Obito.

The issue was raw reaction speed, not literal skill, which I think we both agree Gai has over Minato.



> Until Minato shows more feats, yes.



I'm expecting more Ninjutsu oriented feats myself, but okay.



> And she was being protected as well. The amount of damage that Gai can deal her hitting her constantly with soushuga would definitely become more than Madara's in some time. Before his gates runs out.



I highly doubt that Katon Madara sent at her would have taken more chakra to regenerate from than she spent rejuvinating Gaara and Onoki, then Mei, then supercharging Onoki's Jinton.



> He has never tried that because when Gai went gates, his oponent lasted mere panels and it was not enough to do it. He has manga knowledge and he should know about her regeneration and feats in Pain's arc. Going for a vital part of her body and not risking his life kicking and punching her is very logical and likely.



I agree, it is logical.

My doubt is in him attempting such before Tsunade attempts the playing dead tactic. . .or possibly Katsuyu.

And hitting the vitals means nothing to a woman who jumps around and blindsides people with swords in her gut, and summons when split in half while worried about _other people_.


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## Rocky (May 9, 2013)

TheIronMan said:


> We also don't know if Tsunade shrugged of the damage before attacking.




There were two swords stuck in her abdomen while the attack was taking place.


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## LostSelf (May 9, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> The mini Magatama is what I'm referring to. When it hit her, she went flying into the boulder hard enough to shatter it. The impact of the jutsu itself would obviously be more destructive than the impact of Tsunade flying into the bounder.
> 
> She was just finishing up the wound from Susano'o impaling her, so. . .it doesn't look like that was the case.
> 
> She tanked it.



Finishing up the wound from Susano'o impaling her doesn't mean that she tanked the attack. It means that this wound was bigger and the magatama's could've been meaningless. And it was. Mini magatama lack feats. And yeah, it was a hard hit and i'm not saying that one hit of Soushuga will take her out, constant hits with soushuga froma Gated Gai would likely outlast her chakra reserver forcing her to regenerate nonstop.



> "Quicker way" because, he needed to avoid being touched and be able to hit him with a Rasengan. So instead of getting in his face, ducking his grab, and then using Rasengan (because Obito would notice and go intangible too quickly)- he tried to just get a straight shot, no maneuver or anything, from behind by teleporting to the seal behind Obito.



Well, i don't think that base Minato could've touched Obito. Obito forced him to use Hiraishin more than once and he could never touch him even when he moved rapidly attempting to stab him in the head. He was easily countered. My bet is that he needed Hiraishin to lay a hand on Obito.



> The issue was raw reaction speed, not literal skill, which I think we both agree Gai has over Minato.



Im not sure there. To be able to counter attack after instantly teleporting means you need a lot of reaction speed. I'm not sure if Gai is above Minato in that department. But in the taijutsu department is likely. 



> I'm expecting more Ninjutsu oriented feats myself, but okay.



I bet he will show some crazy feats.



> I highly doubt that Katon Madara sent at her would have taken more chakra to regenerate from than she spent rejuvinating Gaara and Onoki, then Mei, then supercharging Onoki's Jinton.



I lost it here, are we agreeing?



> I agree, it is logical.
> 
> My doubt is in him attempting such before Tsunade attempts the playing dead tactic. . .or possibly Katsuyu.
> 
> And hitting the vitals means nothing to a woman who jumps around and blindsides people with swords in her gut, and summons when split in half while worried about _other people_.



Well, Gai has noticed Kisame moving his finger just a bit inside the water and quickly attacked and neutralized him. Also, Byakugo should give Gai the warning he needs.

It means a lot. Tsunade was just pierced once, when Byakugo healed it probably did it with the blades inside her body and unless those blades moved, not much damage could've been caused. However, beheading with a Kunai has shown to be possible (Zabuza did it, for example) and with Gated Gai's strenght, it's not a crazy thing to say.

Slashing her throat with a Kunai and beating her nonstop should do the trick.



Rocky said:


> There were two swords stuck in her abdomen while the attack was taking place.



I'm not saying she can't attack. I'm saying she can't take hits and inmediately attack like if she was never hit. Also, we don't know if the damage created by the blades was healed by byakugo and they were not causing the same pain than before. I doubt Tsunade is inmediately counter attacking after a hit from Soushuga without flinching from at least enough time for Gai to keep attacking.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (May 10, 2013)

> I am using your logic.
> 
> Hiruzen's jutsu: Here
> Katon: Karyū Endan: Databook stated to turn people into ash in seconds
> ...



Jad, you logic is flawed, as it completely ignores very important facts.  Namely, the elemental wheel.

Katons are magic ninja fire, and they are super weak to magic ninja water.  So two ultra high level attacks of opposing elements will end in the weak one losing no matter what.  Even if Hiruzen's attack could evaporate a normal tidal wave or lake, it would lose to Kisame's tidal wave or Tobirama water wall because they have the effectiveness multiplier going for them.

Guy's punches are normal fire.  I.E.  They're not chakra based, and therefore unaffected by the elemental wheel.  Which means they don't take suffer a critical weakness to Kisame's water sharks, and get to clash on fair ground.  

Now Guy's punches didn't go through the sharks, they cancelled out.  Which means all we can say is some amount (several?  I don't know how many hit each shark.) Morning Peacock punches are equal in power one water shark.  

Personally I don't care how many water sharks Tsunade gets slammed with in any speed of succession, she'll live.

Also, MP can't be that hot, because Guy's arms are on fire right here, and they went out.  And didn't cause him burns.  Seeing as how gated techniques are explicitly exempt from the, "Your jutsu don't hurt you," rule of thumb, and because it's taijutsu and friction and not chakra anyway, they should be searing his flesh off in the same way you kept saying they would to Tsunade.  Only they're not.  So.  Yeah.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 10, 2013)

Matto-sama said:


> Tsunade should have lost conciousness when her spine was severed - but it didn't faze her. She can even remain concious after being split in two.
> 
> Gai is not 'decimating' her head, nor is he knocking her unconcious with Byakugou active.
> 
> ...



Tsunade having high resistance to pain aka being able to stay conscious while being cut in half does not stop her squishy brain from being splattered. For example a guy might have enough pain tolerance to stay awake while his arm is being cut off, that does not mean he is going to stay conscious when a hit him on the back of the head. Two different things a strong enough hit to Tsunades head will kill her to claim otherwise is NLF.

Also keep in mind i said at least, whats actually going to happen is she collapses dead not unconscious.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (May 10, 2013)

> I'm not saying she can't attack. I'm saying she can't take hits and inmediately attack like if she was never hit.



Kabuto severs her muscles with scalpels and she continues attacking him without pause.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 10, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Kabuto severs her muscles with scalpels and she continues attacking him without pause.




Kabutos attacks are not like Gai so can't really compare. As you can still fight back if he hits one of your muscles. 

Can't really counter attack when your being sent flying in the opposite direction by a kick or punch.


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## bleakwinter (May 10, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Tsunade having high resistance to pain aka being able to stay conscious while being cut in half does not stop her squishy brain from being splattered. For example a guy might have enough pain tolerance to stay awake while his arm is being cut off, that does not mean he is going to stay conscious when a hit him on the back of the head. Two different things a strong enough hit to Tsunades head will kill her to claim otherwise is NLF.
> 
> Also keep in mind i said at least, whats actually going to happen is she collapses dead not unconscious.



Gated Gai kicked the Kisame clone _directly in the head_, but caused nothing more than some bleeding (1). To suggest that Tsunade's head will be splattered from his attacks (Especially after taking into account Byakugo's regeneration), when Kisame took a brunt hit directly to the skull and showed little injury really doesn't make much sense. These claims of Gai being able to pulpify Tsunade's head are rather baseless when compared along the actuality of Gai's feats.


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## FlamingRain (May 10, 2013)

TheIronMan said:


> Finishing up the wound from Susano'o impaling her doesn't mean that she tanked the attack. It means that this wound was bigger and the magatama's could've been meaningless. And it was. Mini magatama lack feats. And yeah, it was a hard hit and i'm not saying that one hit of Soushuga will take her out, constant hits with soushuga froma Gated Gai would likely outlast her chakra reserver forcing her to regenerate nonstop.



If the wound had veen made bigger it would have made the rip in her clothes bigger as well wouldn't it? Besides, the Magatama hit her horizontally instead of vertically, if it had done anything it would have made a + shape across her other wound. If she had taken real damage from it I'm sure we would have seen it.

But if we're talking about Gated Gai now, then I agree she'll be forced to regenerate nonstop. I just didn't think Gai'd get anywhere in _base_, which we already agreed on as well.



> Well, i don't think that base Minato could've touched Obito. Obito forced him to use Hiraishin more than once and he could never touch him even when he moved rapidly attempting to stab him in the head. He was easily countered. My bet is that he needed Hiraishin to lay a hand on Obito.



If this is talking about his attempt to stab him atop the Hokage monument, I didn't think Obito had actually turned tangible. I always interpreted that he tried to sneak up on Minato and let his first attack fail, then catch him with the surprise factor right then. Of course it didn't work because Minato could teleport.



> Im not sure there. To be able to counter attack after instantly teleporting means you need a lot of reaction speed. I'm not sure if Gai is above Minato in that department. But in the taijutsu department is likely.



Yes the Taijutsu department is what I'm talking about, Minato should be above Gai in reactions. 

Though Tsunade and Ay were both able to register their surroundings and attack instantly after being shot to the battlefield by Mabui's _Tenso no Jutsu_; I bet if Gai had the ability to warp right behind his opponent he could have hit Obito.

It seems like high end taijutsu practitioners have striking speed and reflexes that exceed their actual movement speed (especially since _Hirudora_ is the fastest strike in the manga, despite Ay's _RnY_ making him faster in the actual movement speed department). . .but that's just me.



> Well, Gai has noticed Kisame moving his finger just a bit inside the water and quickly attacked and neutralized him. Also, Byakugo should give Gai the warning he needs.
> 
> It means a lot. Tsunade was just pierced once, when Byakugo healed it probably did it with the blades inside her body and unless those blades moved, not much damage could've been caused. However, beheading with a Kunai has shown to be possible (Zabuza did it, for example) and with Gated Gai's strenght, it's not a crazy thing to say.
> 
> Slashing her throat with a Kunai and beating her nonstop should do the trick.



Yes, but he was looking right at Kisame. Sozo Saisei and Byakugo can be turned off at will, long enough to get one unexpected strike in.

How would Byakugo heal with the blade still inside her body? The blade would be in the way, unless she was trying to merge with the blade forever or something. 

Imo Tsunade should have the stamina to outlast him, because her stamina has been stressed more in things like healing a village twice and taking CST without a Katsuyu division for cover. Actually, Katsuyu would make things a lot easier for her because its so freakin' annoying to face with blunt force attacks.

But what your saying isn't a crazy thing to say, as you've said. But I don't think the decapitation would be the first thing he tries, rather he'd go after other vitals first. . .and that's where I see Tsunade faking a knock-out before regeneration blindside from behind.


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## Okodi (May 10, 2013)

If we go by the logic that Gai will beat Tsunade because of speed then... 

You have to remember that speed means so many things and that just because one can move quickly does not mean that one will annililate anyone due to their superiority in speed. If we only go by that logic then Gai and Lee > every sandnin since he was the first one to hit Gaara and outspeed the sand. But I doubt that is the case!

Just because Gai or anyone else happens to have a greater movement speed it does not mean that they will defeat the opponent since the opponent may have a greater "combat speed" if I can express myself that way. That also factors in.

Also, Tsunade's Byakugō is going to *last significantly longer* against Gai alone *since she won't need to share chakra.* The reason it ended prematurely was because she had to heal others, boost them with chakra transfers and channel her chakra so that Onoki could use a full-scale, high power jinton. With only her on the battlefield there will be no need to share her chakra, hence Byakugō will last a long time.

Remember that she was able use Katsuyu as a shield against a shockwave called *Shinra Tensei!* And it was done with a dispersed Katsuyu. Even if Hirudora has a greater direct damage than ST once again Tsunade wont be needing to use Katsuyu dispersed and will probably be able to counter it.

Once again the battle will be close with Tsunade coming out the victor after a close battle.


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## Rocky (May 10, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Kabutos attacks are not like Gai so can't really compare. As you can still fight back if he hits one of your muscles.
> 
> Can't really counter attack when your being sent flying in the opposite direction by a kick or punch.




Tsunade is stronger, why would she be sent flying?


This is like trying to claim that if I made Ben Grimm (The Thing)  hypersonic+, he could beat the mess out of the Hulk in CQC, which is blatantly false.


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## Trojan (May 10, 2013)

Tsunade wins in my book.


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## LostSelf (May 10, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> If the wound had veen made bigger it would have made the rip in her clothes bigger as well wouldn't it? Besides, the Magatama hit her horizontally instead of vertically, if it had done anything it would have made a + shape across her other wound. If she had taken real damage from it I'm sure we would have seen it.



 We don't see the + shape because the attack probably wasn't as strong and was healed quick. But we will have to agree to disagree here. Your point here is good.



> But if we're talking about Gated Gai now, then I agree she'll be forced to regenerate nonstop. I just didn't think Gai'd get anywhere in _base_, which we already agreed on as well.



Yeah, base Gai cannot kill her unless he beheads her. And in base it's not very likely.



> If this is talking about his attempt to stab him atop the Hokage monument, I didn't think Obito had actually turned tangible. I always interpreted that he tried to sneak up on Minato and let his first attack fail, then catch him with the surprise factor right then. Of course it didn't work because Minato could teleport.


Good point. I didn't see it this way.




> Yes the Taijutsu department is what I'm talking about, Minato should be above Gai in reactions.



Agree.



> Though Tsunade and Ay were both able to register their surroundings and attack instantly after being shot to the battlefield by Mabui's _Tenso no Jutsu_; I bet if Gai had the ability to warp right behind his opponent he could have hit Obito.



Yeah, this is what i call a dramatic interception. Just like Haku when he saved Zabuza.



> It seems like high end taijutsu practitioners have striking speed and reflexes that exceed their actual movement speed (especially since _Hirudora_ is the fastest strike in the manga, despite Ay's _RnY_ making him faster in the actual movement speed department). . .but that's just me.



Yeah, if Gai had speed as fast as his punches in gates then he would be faster than the Raikage. Also he needs amazing reflexes to move fast in gates as well, so i agree.




> Yes, but he was looking right at Kisame. Sozo Saisei and Byakugo can be turned off at will, long enough to get one unexpected strike in.



Well, this depends on his position when he deals the final blow to her. Also, if she turns off byakyugo before the jutsu heals all the damage she would receive, then it would not be good to her.



> How would Byakugo heal with the blade still inside her body? The blade would be in the way, unless she was trying to merge with the blade forever or something.



Not that. I explained myself bad. But the damage caused by the blades were being healed all the time, so it might've not been very problematic. What i meant is that Gai's attacks with enough force to push her back will keep giving him the advantage to counter attack before she does, considering that he's not only faster and more reflexive, but is arguably more skilled in taijutsu than her. Hitting her would give him more advantage than he already has in CqC.



> Imo Tsunade should have the stamina to outlast him, because her stamina has been stressed more in things like healing a village twice and taking CST without a Katsuyu division for cover. Actually, Katsuyu would make things a lot easier for her because its so freakin' annoying to face with blunt force attacks.



Well, Tsunade had been storing chakra for years that time and  it's not specified if she has this in this fight. She can outlast him if she has that chakra reserves and Gai doesn't go for a decapitation.

I'm sure Tsunade would summon Katsuyu if she feels herself in trouble. But by the time she realizes she needs it, it might be too late.



> But what your saying isn't a crazy thing to say, as you've said. But I don't think the decapitation would be the first thing he tries, rather he'd go after other vitals first. . .and that's where I see Tsunade faking a knock-out before regeneration blindside from behind.



We have diferent opinions then. I don't know if Gai would go for other vitals first considering he knows how much pain she can take and that he has a limited (But not that short) time to finish her off and be at her mercy if he fails, but it's a given.

*PoW: Not exactly what i meant, i explained what i tried to say above, but i concede this part.*


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## timmysblood (May 10, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> Good thing we're talking about manga characters



True but I consider it a kind of plot no jutsu , for example Lee pumbles Gaara in the air unit he tires out , yet many other times characters just hit someone once and wait for them to recover.So I  honestly don't see why Gai wouldn't just stand over Tsunade curb  stomping her till her head was mush.


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## Mithos (May 10, 2013)

@TheIronMan

Sorry to jump into your debate, but here I go: 

You said by the time Tsunade realizes she may need Katsuyu it may be too late. Normally many ninja may not use their trump cards until it's too late. However, with Tsunade, that is very unlikely for one reason: her regeneration. With Souzou Saisei and Byakugou, Gai will struggle heavily to put her down. If she is taking a vicious beating, she will realize she needs Katsuyu. I can't see Gai beating her so badly it exhausts her incredible stamina before she thinks she should summon. Gai would have to 'kill' her numerous, perhaps dozens, of times before she thinks about summoning. I don't find that likely.


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## ueharakk (May 10, 2013)

Can't we all just agree that unrestricted Tsunade opens the 6th gate and turns Gai into a greasy smear on her fist?


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## FlamingRain (May 10, 2013)

timmysblood said:


> True but I consider it a kind of plot no jutsu , for example Lee pumbles Gaara in the air unit he tires out , yet many other times characters just hit someone once and wait for them to recover.So I  honestly don't see why Gai wouldn't just stand over Tsunade curb  stomping her till her head was mush.





Lee pummeled Gaara in the air and Gaara still managed to bring his arms up to defend, as well as use a jutsu during the assault- turning his gourd into sand to cushion his fall.

That is why such a comparison is. . .a problem, for Gai.

Gai is far stronger than Lee yes, Tsunade is also far more durable and resilient than Gaara.

If Gaara can do that Tsunade should be able to bring up her leg while being punched. Standing over her, punching her in the head, Gai wouldn't see (and thus wouldn't react to) her leg moving before it hit him and took out half his body.


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## Bonly Jr. (May 11, 2013)

Tsunade shits on Gai, oh yes. If she manages to utilize Body Pathway Derangement, Gai is finished. Kabuto is intelligent, and catches on quick, which is why he adjusted to his rearranged joints so quickly. Gai, won't get the chance. This time, he can expect a fist to the head.


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## narut0ninjafan (May 11, 2013)

Minato Namikaze said:


> Tsunade shits on Gai, oh yes. If she manages to utilize Body Pathway Derangement, Gai is finished. Kabuto is intelligent, and catches on quick, which is why he adjusted to his rearranged joints so quickly. Gai, won't get the chance. This time, he can expect a fist to the head.



This. Tsunade wins, her Byakugou will last MUCH longer than Gates will, which is what he needs to hurt her. His base hits aren't going to hurt her much even without Byakugou.

One question though, do you guys think Tsunade can use Body Pathway Derangement with a simple tap, or do you guys think she needs a shot on the back of the neck for it to work? If a simple tap works, Gai loses horribly here.


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## Okodi (May 11, 2013)

Close combat might be the last thing someone wants to get into when fighting Tsunade.



Tsunade would survive most of the decapitations Gai has to offer. She doesn't even have Byakugō active here.



narut0ninjafan said:


> One question though, do you guys think Tsunade can use Body Pathway Derangement with a simple tap, or do you guys think she needs a shot on the back of the neck for it to work? If a simple tap works, Gai loses horribly here.



She needs to tap the back since it is the spinal cord that carries the nerv. At the neck, you have all the nervous pathways and lower than that you only have the lower body. Just like people getting paralyzed after accidents.


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## FlamingRain (May 11, 2013)

narut0ninjafan said:


> One question though, do you guys think Tsunade can use Body Pathway Derangement with a simple tap, or do you guys think she needs a shot on the back of the neck for it to work?



It's probably just a tap. _Ranshinsho_ pours chakra into the entire nervous system. Granted, it's preferable to tap from behind if she can because its harder to strike back when your opponent's behind you, if she were to enter the jolt through another part of the nervous system it would just travel back up the spine and the rest of the body all the same.


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