# 7th Gated Gai versus Full-Powered Ei (Yondaime)



## Kyu (Jul 7, 2015)

*Location:* Mifune v. Hanzo

*Mindset:* Bloodlusted(Duh)

*Distance:* 5 meters

*Restrictions:* 8th Gate

_________

*S2:* Unlimited 7th Gate


Who walks out alive?


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## Icegaze (Jul 7, 2015)

if A truly used V1 against Rinnegan madara and madara was still just only able to block then 
A vs gai would be a better match up than people think 

with gai havig the offensive advantage by a good gap and A having the defensive advantage by an equally large gap 

however if it was V2 that went up against Rinnegan madara and madara could still block then gai simply beats the shit out of A


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## StarWanderer (Jul 7, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> if A truly used V1 against Rinnegan madara and madara was still just only able to block then
> A vs gai would be a better match up than people think
> 
> with gai havig the offensive advantage by a good gap and A having the defensive advantage by an equally large gap
> ...



Ei used V2 against Edo Madara.

And 7 Gate Gai knocks Ei out with Hirudora to his jaw.


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## Icegaze (Jul 7, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> Ei used V2 against Edo Madara.
> 
> And 7 Gate Gai knocks Ei out with Hirudora to his jaw.



you are free to believe that

some think it was V1. and i would agree with them


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## Trojan (Jul 7, 2015)

A wins. 

He is faster than 7th Gate Gai, and his body is much stronger as well. I don't think AT can take him out to be honest even if it lands. 

When you say "unlimited" does Gai still suffer pain or not?


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## DaVizWiz (Jul 7, 2015)

7th Gated Gai wins. This was being debated years ago (prior to War-arc feats) and even then a lot of people were debating for Gai.

Considering his feats against the Sharingan Jins, Edo Madara & Judara, there's generally no way Ei beats him.


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## StarWanderer (Jul 7, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> you are free to believe that
> 
> some think it was V1. and i would agree with them



Their arguements for V1 were countered many times.


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## Mercurial (Jul 7, 2015)

Gai rapes Ei with 6th or 7th Gate. Base Gai was able to not let Rinnegan Obito (who was defeating KCM Naruto) lay a single finger on him in CQC, lower Gates Gai was able to outpace a Gudodama, 6th Gate Gai blitzed Kisame and couterblitzed some Sharingan and Rinnegan enhanced V2 Bijuu together with Sharingan Kakashi, 7th Gate Gai pressured Juudara far more than SM Minato did (with a far slower Edo Madara being able to casually react and block Ei's fastest speed while being already busy to dodge Mei Terumi's Yoton ninjutsu; Gaara, who witnessed Ei's max speed and even Ei's max speed lightned by Onoki, called Gai's movements "not human"). The Green Beast is faster, stronger, with better reflexes and far more taijutsu skills, and has powerful ougi like Asa Kujaku and especially Hiru Tora that Ei can't defend from.

Gai is also portrayed as far stronger as one of the key players in the War Arc and the Eternal Rival of a shinobi of Kakashi's caliber and relevance, Ei is just one of the Gokage. Worn out Gai smashed away Edo Madara destroying his V3 Susanoo with Hiru Tora, while Ei needed Onoki to power himself and Tsunade to combo with him to destroy Madara's V1 Susanoo.


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## StarWanderer (Jul 7, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> Gai rapes Ei with 6th or 7th Gate. Base Gai was able to not let Rinnegan Obito (who was defeating KCM Naruto) lay a single finger on him in CQC, lower Gates Gai was able to outpace a Gudodama, 6th Gate Gai blitzed Kisame and couterblitzed some Sharingan and Rinnegan enhanced V2 Bijuu together with Sharingan Kakashi, 7th Gate Gai pressured Juudara far more than SM Minato did (with a far slower Edo Madara being able to casually react and block Ei's fastest speed while being already busy to dodge Mei Terumi's Yoton ninjutsu; Gaara, who witnessed Ei's max speed and even Ei's max speed lightned by Onoki, called Gai's movements "not human"). The Green Beast is faster, stronger, with better reflexes and far more taijutsu skills, and has powerful ougi like Asa Kujaku and especially Hiru Tora that Ei can't defend from.
> 
> Gai is also portrayed as far stronger as one of the key players in the War Arc and the Eternal Rival of a shinobi of Kakashi's caliber and relevance, Ei is just one of the Gokage. Worn out Gai smashed away Edo Madara destroying his V3 Susanoo with Hiru Tora, while Ei needed Onoki to power himself and Tsunade to combo with him to destroy Madara's V1 Susanoo.



You solo'ed this thread, buddy.


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## Icegaze (Jul 7, 2015)

for those it makes happy gai wins in even lower gated forms. no issues there


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## LostSelf (Jul 7, 2015)

Ei's advantage here is his durability. It makes up quite a lot. He could take a Kusanagi flowed with Raiton like if it were paper. That's the thing that can make him win this match.

Aside from that, he's too linear. With his taijutsu skills and his reflexes there's no doubt that he can outmaneuver Ei, even if Ei got a slighltly speed advantage (I wouldn't be so certain with that).

Now, Ei would have hard time keeping up with Gai's taijutsu and his striking speed who's still faster than Ei, even if his movement speed doesn't manage to be.

Can Gai harm Ei? I think he can. But with enough time for him to kill him? Well, Hirudora might do the job. But i am not going to affirm anything, yet.


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## Ghost (Jul 7, 2015)

Ei is faster, stronger (Guy's punches are stronger tho) and more durable. He grabs Guy ans snaps him in half.


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## DaVizWiz (Jul 7, 2015)

AT sent Madara's V3 Susano flying multiple kilometers and vaporized it- Ei couldn't even break through Madara's ribcage Susano- yet he severed his own arm. 

MP vaporized a chakra-infused tidal wave 100m tall and several hundred meters wide. 

He punches so hard and fast it creates massive explosive air cannons with several-hundred meter diameter/vertical radius' and he literally lights the air on fire. 

Yes, he can harm Ei.


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## Rocky (Jul 7, 2015)

I think the actual techniques Gai can use in the gates gives him an advantage. He just has to win before they tire him out.


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## Icegaze (Jul 7, 2015)

i agree with bonly 
let me ask you all on this thread. If gai is faster how much faster. can he simply blitz A and kick his head off like some believe


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## Bonly (Jul 7, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> i agree with bonly



I haven't even posted my opinion on the thread yet lol


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## Icegaze (Jul 7, 2015)

Bonly said:


> I haven't even posted my opinion on the thread yet lol



i meant rocky
but goes to show i was always going to agree with u


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## StarWanderer (Jul 7, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> i agree with bonly
> let me ask you all on this thread. If gai is faster how much faster. can he simply blitz A and kick his head off like some believe



I will answer that quastion for Bonly. Yeah, i am very ill-mannered. Sorry. 

7 Gate Gai can speedblitz any vertion of Fourth Raikage. V2, V1 - doesnt matter. But he wont be able to kick his head off. He can knock Ei out with Hirudora.


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## Turrin (Jul 7, 2015)

Naruto after gaining just some of Kyuubi's chakra outsped Ei. Gai kept up with a man who had Juubi's chakra, a  man who fodderized two Hiraishin users who were both faster than EI, etc... It's so obvious that 7th-Gate Gai would demolish Ei it's ridiculous, they aren't even in the same universe. Honestly 6th-Gate Gai wins this match easily as well.


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## Icegaze (Jul 7, 2015)

what feats does 6th gate gai have though?

lol


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## Rocky (Jul 7, 2015)

Gai is in a "different universe" than A, yet he'd probably lose to people in that universe, like Tsunade or Mū.


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## Icegaze (Jul 7, 2015)

inb4 starwander claims base gai blitz muu
or amps to gates and kills muu before muu knows he is fighting gai 

also tsunade looses to base gai who is as fast as KCM Naruto who is faster than V2 A

base gai is too much for tsunade


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## Turrin (Jul 7, 2015)

Rocky said:


> Gai is in a "different universe" than A, yet he'd probably lose to people in that universe, like Tsunade or Mū.


Him loosing to Tsunade is laughable. He'd only loose to Mu if the match started out at like 100m, w/ no knowledge, and Mu opted for Invis right at the start of the match, and than proceed to go for a instant kill shot right off the bat after Invis, like slitting Gai's throat.

Otherwise Gai pummels him into the ground before he can do anything. 

Again the guy kept up with Juubidara, you can't just ignore that shit and pretend it didn't happen because it doesn't fit with you tier list or whatever.


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## Mercurial (Jul 7, 2015)

Rocky said:


> Gai is in a "different universe" than A, yet he'd probably lose to people in that universe, like Tsunade or Mū.



He is.

Not at all. 

Gai is a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot, faster than Tsunade and more skilled in taijutsu than she is. He can simply vaporize Katsuyu with Asa Kujaku, Katsuyu's body is mostly made of water, so it won't handle the heat of something that vaporized almost a thousand of Suiton sharks; not to mention that Gai (with 6th Gate at best but probably lower gates) could hold his own against the Rokubi, so it's laughable that he will have trouble with a summoned snail if he didn't have against a Bijuu snail; 6th Gate Gai can jump half of turtle island with just a single quick movement (1)(2), he casually dodges the acid (dodged by Manda, who was intercepted with ease by Tsunade herself of all people) and vaporizes her with a couple of Asa Kujaku, Tsunade is not doing anything since sure as hell she is not intercepting Gated Gai in Masashi Kishimoto's manga. Gai knows about Tsunade's strength so he won't be surprised like he was against Kisame, with his speed and far better taijutsu will dodge Tsunade's punches and kicks and ragdoll her, I don't see how in the hell she could survive Asa Kujaku, let alone Hiru Tora smashed in her face; anyway Gai can simply use his nunchaku (that literally pulverize giant boulders when used in base (3)) or a kunai in Gated mode to break her skull or cut her head off, but Hiru Tora in the face after a blitz she can't even react to (4)(5) should definitely, definitely, kill her, the hell, Tsunade's skull and neck bone it's not more durable than Madara's V3 Susanoo; and even if she doesn't die instantly, Gai jumps on her and finishes her. 

Mu can make himself invisible and fly, good thing. Sadly Gai can jump very quickly to leap enormous distances, and Jinton needs to be charged (and when he uses Jinton he has to show himself, he is no more invisible (4)) leaving a small window for Gai to blitz Mu in the air; he doesn't even need to blitz and kick/punch him directly, just to unleash Asa Kujaku or Hiru Tora thus killing him. Or, if Mu goes invisible to try to kill Gai with a surprise attack, in first place good luck to actually hit someone with his senses, reflexes and body speed (able to react from blind spot attacks from the back from Rinnegan Obito (6) and able to move his body during a Kamui warp from Obito 7)), and in second place, he is doomed anyway: Gai doesn't need to see him, he just spams Asa Kujaku all around or unleashes Hiru Tora, with such AoE and speed Mu is not doing anything ()(9)(10), he can't dodge nor block it nor he can defeat it executing Jinton in time since Gai's ougi are much faster.


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## Rocky (Jul 7, 2015)

Turrin said:


> Him loosing to Tsunade is laughable.



It's been done a thousand times (including right after Gai's Jubidara feat), but make a thread. Most posters, including myself, agree that she outlasts his gates with her regeneration.

It's certainly not a "laughable" viewpoint. 



Turrin said:


> He'd only loose to Mu if the match started out at like 100m, w/ no knowledge, and Mu opted for Invis right at the start of the match, and than proceed to go for a instant kill shot right off the bat after Invis, like slitting Gai's throat



Mū's invisibility & sneaky style of combat is overall a fantastic counter for high speed, high pressure styles. Yes, Gai will win if you start him in a high gate at short, but under more even conditions he's probably going to end up facing Mū's invisibility technique, and that will be his downfall. 

There's also other characters in that universe that could beat Gai, like Orochimaru (without Edo Tensei), the 3rd Raikage, or possibly even Gengetsu. He's a condition dependant fighter like A, but his problem is that his high speed is incredibly taxing, even if you think he's faster. If the opponent has a counter to speed, Gai doesn't have the war of attrition option.


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## RBL (Jul 7, 2015)

Tsunade is not beating 7gated gai.


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## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Jul 7, 2015)

Ei will win, he's faster, physically stronger and more durable than Gai.

Ei has the speed and reflexes to avoid any linear attack. Gai can however defend against Eis attacks, he's more an capable. And Gai's taijutsu will overwhelm Eis. However because of Eis durability, it wouldnt really matter.

Hirudora will NOT stop Ei. Kisames body was still intact after getting hit by it, and he even recovered not too long after, considering he broke free of Aoba's genjutsu, then broke free from yamatos wood construct, then trapped gai, bee, aoba, yamato and naruto in water prisons.

Eis durability far exceeds kisames. He's already more durable than kisame in base, with lightning chakra mode, that is heightened to another level. As long as he is in lighting chakra mode, hirudora will only daze him temporarily at best.

Gai literally isnt strong enough to put Ei down before the drawbacks of e seventh gate begin to kick in. Nor can gai complete with Eis stamina. Gai can do damage to Ei up close becuase his taijutsu is just that much superior, but Ei can still end up outlasting and then finishing gai off in an exhausted state.

Gai keeping up with juudara is the biggest nonsense i've ever heard and needs to be shut down. Gai pushed him back with TAIJUTSU, after blind siding him. And the second judara recovered, he immediately shut him down. Unless you guys think gais previous attacks are all faster than hirudora (his fastest punch). lol @ keeping up with juudara, madara was hopping backwards, not running, not using shunshin, not even flying, he was merely hopping trying to back off. Thats not speed.

Yeah gai can push back ei with taijutsu as well. But ei is too durable to even be phased by that, his body is on a different level.


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## Icegaze (Jul 7, 2015)

quickly using every fail logic posted so far If gai is so far ahead of A level based on feats how far ahead is he compared to BSM Naruto 

because you know Gai PRESSUED!!!! juudara yet BSM Naruto 1 on 1 gets bitched by juubito. Even with EMS sasuke help they were less threatening than gai was to juudara

so then I ask is 7th gate gai>>>>>>>>>>>BSM Naruto

I need to understand the logic here

note BSM Naruto has zero feats of pressuring juubito or juudara 1 on 1 

btw does that also put 7th gate gai above juubito?

since we all know juudara>>>>>juubito


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## Turrin (Jul 7, 2015)

Rocky said:


> It's been done a thousand times (including right after Gai's Jubidara feat), but make a thread. Most posters, including myself, agree that she outlasts his gates with her regeneration.
> 
> It's certainly not a "laughable" viewpoint.


From what I can recall the basis of that thread was that Gai wouldn't cut Tsunade's head off even after seeing all of his moves fail, which I find silly.



> Mū's invisibility & sneaky style of combat is overall a fantastic counter for high speed, high pressure styles. Yes, Gai will win if you start him in a high gate at short, but under more even conditions he's probably going to end up facing Mū's invisibility technique, and that will be his downfall.


As long as Gai is within range of AT or MP when Mu goes invis, the AOE of ether of those will still hit him as long as Gai knows the general direction Mu was in when he went Invis.



> There's also other characters in that universe that could beat Gai, like Orochimaru (without Edo Tensei)


Orochimaru gets turned into a pile of ash from MP.



> the 3rd Raikage


Sandaime is perhaps Gai's worse match up, though Gai could still potentially win on how consecutive point blank AT treats Sandaime.



> or possibly even Gengetsu.


MP, the end.



> He's a condition dependant fighter like A, but his problem is that his high speed is incredibly taxing, even if you think he's faster. If the opponent has a counter to speed, Gai doesn't have the war of attrition option.


No he's not. Not only is Ei inferior in all CQC regards to Gai, but he lacks Gai's versatility, that comes from Gai's ability to use powerful AOE attacks and Mid/Long Range attacks. As far as Gates taxing him goes, given his performance against Madara and previously in the war he should be capable of using 6th/7th Gate a good amount of times. Most characters san perhaps Sandaime-Raikage that aren't on the God Level aren't surviving that.


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## Rocky (Jul 7, 2015)

Turrin said:


> From what I can recall the basis of that thread was that Gai wouldn't cut Tsunade's head off even after seeing all of his moves fail, which I find silly.



That's assuming simple decapitation gets around Byakugō and kills her, which would be sorta silly imo given the technique's hype.



> As long as Gai is within range of AT or MP when Mu goes invis, the AOE of ether of those will still hit him as long as Gai knows the general direction Mu was in when he went Invis.



Only if Mū's going invisible while Gai is already in the 6th or 7th gate.



Turrin said:


> Orochimaru gets turned into a pile of ash from MP.



He'd be pulverized & mangled, but he'd just spit out a new body.



Turrin said:


> Sandaime is perhaps Gai's worse match up, though Gai could still potentially win on how consecutive point blank AT treats Sandaime.



Rasenshuriken did little, and that technique has an elemental advantage on Triple A's shroud. 

And what do you mean by point blank? Point blank Hirodura on Madara broke Gai's own ribs.



Turrin said:


> MP, the end.



Oh look, it was a mirage.



Turrin said:


> Most characters san perhaps Sandaime-Raikage that aren't on the God Level aren't surviving that.



Them...

...and all Top tiers (EMS Sasuke, BM Naruto, Hashirama, etc.), MS Obito, Minato, possibly Tobirama & Itachi...there's more characters than you think that beat him.


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## UchihaX28 (Jul 7, 2015)

Base Bee's Lariat knocked Ei out of his Cloak.

 Gai does the same and proceeds to demolish him with Hirudora.


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## Empathy (Jul 7, 2015)

Turrin said:


> Orochimaru gets turned into a pile of ash from MP.



Only if he were very dry.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Jul 7, 2015)

It can go either way, to be honest.
Gai's attack speed and moves in Gates are vastly superior to Ei's set of attacks in V2, though the latter is faster in that mode with greater durability to boot. It'll basically come down to whether or not Gai is able to defeat Ei before 7th Gate ends, which is really close in my eyes.


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## LostSelf (Jul 7, 2015)

Turrin said:


> From what I can recall the basis of that thread was that Gai wouldn't cut Tsunade's head off even after seeing all of his moves fail, which I find silly.



Thank you! I've always found those kind of responses silly (with all respect to everybody saying it.) Like Gai seeing all his best attacks failing and keep hitting and hitting like a fly hitting a window. Gai's not the smartest out there, but he is not _that_ dumb.

Decapitation also would cost quite a lot of chakra after Tsunade had  to heal all the previous damage Gai would dish out to her. And he has the striking speed to outspeed Byakugo like a car outspeeding a man.


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## StarWanderer (Jul 7, 2015)

> inb4 starwander claims base gai blitz muu
> or amps to gates and kills muu before muu knows he is fighting gai
> 
> also tsunade looses to base gai who is as fast as KCM Naruto who is faster than V2 A
> ...



I didnt even want to say that in the first place. 

And base Gai cant beat Tsunade due to her regeneration. Only high-gated Gai can.


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## Icegaze (Jul 7, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> I didnt even want to say that in the first place.
> 
> And base Gai cant beat Tsunade due to her regeneration. Only high-gated Gai can.



u the guy who has said time and time again gai is faster than V2 A while in base

because he outsped or kept up with KCM Naruto 

you gonna deny that now


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## StarWanderer (Jul 7, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> u the guy who has said time and time again gai is faster than V2 A while in base



I dont remember that. I am the guy who said time and time again that 7 Gate Gai can speedblitz V2 Ei.


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## Ghost (Jul 7, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> 7 Gate Gai can speedblitz V2 Ei.



                   .


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## Icegaze (Jul 7, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> I dont remember that. I am the guy who said time and time again that 7 Gate Gai can speedblitz V2 Ei.



you cant even be honest with urself
maybe you have changed. 

so who is faster base gai or A lets get ur official reply


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## RBL (Jul 7, 2015)

ghostcrawler said:


> .



why laugh 

7gated gai is faster, is stronger, is more skilled in taijutsu and can get rid of more enemies at the same time with his AOE Attacks, he also is smarter.

icegaze likes to addmit gai is stronger just so people can agree that Ei is faster,but the truth is that gai is not only stronger than V2 Ei, gai is also way faster than him.

comparing gai with ei is like comparing Bruce Lee with someone from the WWE


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## ScottofFury (Jul 7, 2015)

Lol at the clowns who still underestimate Gai. The dude in 7th gate kept up with Jubbi Madara, who previously clowned a Sage FTG Minato and Kakashi in an instant. 

He murders Ei and Tsunade at the same time.


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## RBL (Jul 7, 2015)

ScottofFury said:


> Lol at the clowns who still underestimate Gai. The dude in 7th gate kept up with Jubbi Madara, who previously clowned a Sage FTG Minato and Kakashi in an instant.
> 
> He murders Ei and Tsunade at the same time.



clown? 

Gai is the only clown, don't you see, madara was just toying arround with him

he destroyed tobirama, minato hashirama and the others, but that was just because they didn't look as cool as MAITO Gai.

Madara's master plan was to toy arround with Gai in the seventh gate, but not with minato, tobirama or the others(that's why he got rid of them inmediatly with no effort), they are boring unlike Gai, it is not like madara was kind of blitzed, nono.

Gai can't have those feats even if the author draw him doing that, why Gai can't have those feats you might ask? because i don't want him to have them, that's it, and my opinion >> the author himself.

i


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## Turrin (Jul 8, 2015)

Rocky said:


> That's assuming simple decapitation gets around Byakugō and kills her, which would be sorta silly imo given the technique's hype.
> .


Cutting Tsunade in half got around Byakugo and made Katsuya have to stitch her back together.



> Only if Mū's going invisible while Gai is already in the 6th or 7th gate.


Gai can activate 6th or 7th Gate and use MP/AT before Mu escapes the massive radius of both attacks while Invisible.



> He'd be pulverized & mangled, but he'd just spit out a new body.


No he'd be turned to ash.



> Rasenshuriken did little, and that technique has an elemental advantage on Triple A's shroud.


RS caused many wounds, they were just closed up by Edo-Tensei regen. Not enough to down Sandaime, but were not talking a single AT here but MP + Multiple AT after that.



> And what do you mean by point blank? Point blank Hirodura on Madara broke Gai's own ribs.


Are you seriously fucking comparing a Juubidara to Sandaime-Raikage

K I'm done with you just for that.


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## Rocky (Jul 8, 2015)

You know, instead of going back & fourth on all these topics that could each have their own thread, I'll just let you wank Gai.

There's nothing wrong with that.

Gai wank is good wank. 

(I'll make a separate thread)


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## Kyu (Jul 8, 2015)

Madara reacted to 8th Gated Gai's initial step and could mentally perceive the affects of Gai's movement, before getting struck by Midnight Dragon.

I don't believe 7th Gated' speed had Juubi Madara on the ropes; chances are, anything short of the 8th gate moving at 'inhuman speeds' was a shocker for him. Similar to how Ei's top speed surprised Minato at first, but didn't mean shit once blondie got a gauge on how fast he was.

With that out of the way, I still think Gai > Ei in speed even w/o factoring in gate of suicide.


> When you say "unlimited" does Gai still suffer pain or not?



Nah, he's straight.


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## StarWanderer (Jul 8, 2015)

Kyu said:


> Madara reacted to 8th Gated Gai's initial step and could mentally perceive the affects of Gai's movement, before getting struck by Midnight Dragon.
> 
> I don't believe 7th Gated' speed had Juubi Madara on the ropes; chances are, anything short of the 8th gate moving at 'inhuman speeds' was a shocker for him. Similar to how Ei's top speed surprised Minato at first, but didn't mean shit once blondie got a gauge on how fast he was.
> 
> ...



Because Gai wasnt in a close distance with him and had to get close to Juubidara before hitting him with EE.

The same thing with Night Guy.

And the difference between Minato's and Juubidara's situations is that Minato actually outpaced Ei. And his face expression didnt show much of a surprise. Juubidara failed to dowith Gai what he did with SM Edo Minato and used Hirudora against him.


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## StarWanderer (Jul 8, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> you cant even be honest with urself
> maybe you have changed.
> 
> so who is faster base gai or A lets get ur official reply



Probably V2 Ei, but not by much.


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## ChaddyMan1 (Jul 8, 2015)

I'm gonna go with the Gai who didn't get a hole punched through his chest.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jul 8, 2015)

A can probably dodge Gai, circle behind him and kill him, like he did against Sasuke in the summit. 

Not sure about scenario 2.


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## Icegaze (Jul 8, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> Probably V2 Ei, but not by much.



Lol U have improved though it's by a huge Margin

How base Gai is even close is laughable


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## StarWanderer (Jul 8, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> Lol U have improved though it's by a huge Margin
> 
> How base Gai is even close is laughable



Maybe his preformance against Rinnegan Obito is also laughable for you?


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## Amol (Jul 8, 2015)

I believe that Gai sensei wins but saying he wins easily is foolish.
He will need to work hard for his win .


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## Icegaze (Jul 8, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> Maybe his preformance against Rinnegan Obito is also laughable for you?



that had nothing to do with speed though. really..so yh nothing he showed there even comes close to V2 A speed 

its silly to think otherwise


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## StarWanderer (Jul 8, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> that had nothing to do with speed though. really..so yh nothing he showed there even comes close to V2 A speed
> 
> its silly to think otherwise



Had nothing to do with speed? Nothing he has shown there comes close to V2 Ei's speed?

I lol'ed.


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## Icegaze (Jul 8, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> Had nothing to do with speed? Nothing he has shown there comes close to V2 Ei's speed?
> 
> I lol'ed.



what did feel free to elaborate

reacting to obito physical speed? 

what else did he do?


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## StarWanderer (Jul 8, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> what did feel free to elaborate
> 
> reacting to obito physical speed?
> 
> what else did he do?



Gai could react to Obito's moves with kamui attempts. He fought Obito using his taijutsu. That obviously requires *speed*.


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## Icegaze (Jul 8, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> Gai could react to Obito's moves with kamui attempts. He fought Obito using his taijutsu. That obviously requires *speed*.



obito cant kamui you unless he touches you
therefore gai fought obito physical speed which isn't anything impressive at all 

shows gai got skill and speed but I don't see how that's at all comparable to A speed

unless u think base gai can side step amaterasu


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## StarWanderer (Jul 8, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> obito cant kamui you unless he touches you
> therefore gai fought obito physical speed which isn't anything impressive at all
> 
> shows gai got skill and speed but I don't see how that's at all comparable to A speed
> ...



Gai was fast enough to hit Obito before he can touch and Kamui-warp. That requires speed. And that is very impressive, since Obito has feats that makes him at least close to V2 Ei.


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## RickMartin Ben Janardhan (Jul 9, 2015)

only advantage A has is durability but even thats countered by morning peacock. gai would just fry A's body to a crisp with morning peacock considering that A has no jutsu that can extinguish the natural flames that would be engulfing his entire body.


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## Icegaze (Jul 9, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> Gai was fast enough to hit Obito before he can touch and Kamui-warp. That requires speed. And that is very impressive, since Obito has feats that makes him at least close to V2 Ei.



 what the fuck 

obito cannot use kamui unless he touches you. all gai did was ensure obito not impressive physical speed wasnt used to touch him 

obito got speed that puts him close to V2 A. really? last i checked obito got hit by amaterasu. A side stepped it

A had no idea what attack sasuke would use. Both Saw MS, obito screams like a bitch. A side steps it 

but do post scans of obito physical speed being comparable, would also like scans of anyone ever mentioning his speed as even slightly impressive


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## StarWanderer (Jul 9, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> what the fuck
> 
> obito cannot use kamui unless he touches you. all gai did was ensure obito not impressive physical speed wasnt used to touch him
> 
> ...



Unexpected Amaterasu, when Obito was talking to Sasuke.

But anyway, the fact KCM Naruto couldnt Shunshin out of his line of attack sometimes, his performance against Kakashi - all these things prove that his physical speed is very fast and close to that of V2 Ei.

And by the way - even Minato couldnt do what Gai did.


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## Icegaze (Jul 9, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> Unexpected Amaterasu, when Obito was talking to Sasuke.
> 
> But anyway, the fact KCM Naruto couldnt Shunshin out of his line of attack sometimes, his performance against Kakashi - all these things prove that his physical speed is very fast and close to that of V2 Ei.
> 
> And by the way - even Minato couldnt do what Gai did.



 
being able to react to them has nothing to do with his physical speed if all he needs to do to dodge is phase through. he isn't moving you get that right. so 

keeping track of KCM Naruto is nice and all but got nothing at all with physical speed 

yes gai is more skilled in cqc than minato never doubted that. though again last I checked obito did loose that fight without dealing any damage at all to minato 

so I don't get why u mention it. rear attack gets evaded then obito looses the second minato is actually facing him


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## StarWanderer (Jul 9, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> being able to react to them has nothing to do with his physical speed if all he needs to do to dodge is phase through. he isn't moving you get that right. so
> 
> keeping track of KCM Naruto is nice and all but got nothing at all with physical speed
> 
> ...



Adult Obito >>>>> young Obito, who fought Minato. We discussed that already.

And Gai demonstrated faster reaction speed and movement speed than that of Minato. Obito grabbed Minato's hand. That means Minato wasnt fast enough to avoid that. Gai was preventing faster Obito from doing that. 

Also, i dont know what base Gai and Minato have to do with this debate. 

If we are talking about this debate, then 7 Gate Gai easily blitzes V2 Ei with Hirudora to his face and knocks him out.


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## Icegaze (Jul 9, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> Adult Obito >>>>> young Obito, who fought Minato. We discussed that already.
> 
> And Gai demonstrated faster reaction speed and movement speed than that of Minato. Obito grabbed Minato's hand. That means Minato wasnt fast enough to avoid that. Gai was preventing faster Obito from doing that.
> 
> ...



u mean obito grabbed minato who had no knwoledge obito could phase through attacks after obito attacked from the rear 

gai had knowledge obito could phase and obito never attacked gai from behind 

nice try though

ps: what u also forgetting is from behind obito couldnt touch minato without minato swinging half his body before obito coudl do anything but phase. but yes lets go on about obito grabbing him with the ambush and no knowledge advantage against minato 

suuuure


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## StarWanderer (Jul 9, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> u mean obito grabbed minato who had no knwoledge obito could phase through attacks after obito attacked from the rear
> 
> gai had knowledge obito could phase and obito never attacked gai from behind
> 
> ...



W\hy Minato couldnt teleport away when he noticed how Obito phased through?

Minato is a sensor, no surprise he turned around once Obito appeared there.


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## Icegaze (Jul 10, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> W\hy Minato couldnt teleport away when he noticed how Obito phased through?
> 
> Minato is a sensor, no surprise he turned around once Obito appeared there.



why would he teleport away. because he is afraid of chains now? which when they grabbed him resulted in nothing 

yes minato is a sensor. and obito couldnt touch him before minato swung half  his body around 

so i guess i could claim gai wasnt fast enough to block obito kunai and had to block with his nunchaku

why didnt he move out of the way then. thats how silly ur argument sounds, minato jumping with hirashin is no different from blocking an attack instead of evading it. 

in any case the attack remains inconsequential

odd how u forget once minato tagged obito, obito couldnt even follow minato attacks anymore


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## StarWanderer (Jul 10, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> why would he teleport away. because he is afraid of chains now? which when they grabbed him resulted in nothing
> 
> yes minato is a sensor. and obito couldnt touch him before minato swung half  his body around
> 
> ...



Because he is not an idiot. How does he know those chains are not a part of some sort of jutsu, but simple chains?

Obito could wait for a good moment to touch him. In fact, he did that. He reacted to Minato's swing and managed to take his arm. 

I am waiting for you to explain why Minato couldnt teleport away after he saw Obito phasing through.

Gai fought an adult Obito, who is >>>>>> young Obito in terms of striking speed and reaction speed. 

Yeah - because Minato marked him, which allowed Minato to teleport to him any time he wants. And by the way, Obito didnt expect that.


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## Icegaze (Jul 10, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> Because he is not an idiot. How does he know those chains are not a part of some sort of jutsu, but simple chains?
> 
> Obito could wait for a good moment to touch him. In fact, he did that. He reacted to Minato's swing and managed to take his arm.
> 
> ...



 being a sensor is how minato would know. the chains had no chakra signal 

yes after a blindside attack lol 

why would he teleport away after obito phases through. is he in danger? or u think he just hirashin for the fun of it. its like saying why didnt you start dodging a punch the instant you threw ur punch and it missed

if the enemy is avoiding you he isnt attacking you. 

lol no proof obito is anything above the one that fought minato. i await ur scans 

so the excuse is obito didnt expect minato to attack him again but somehow its used against minato when juudara and juubito cut off his arms

i guess u believe he was expecting to be countered then?  double standards much

against juubito he just saw his kunai break on contact something that wont have happened before. therefore as u can see he even shows surprise, he also certainly wasnt expecting juubito regains control in that instant. 

but yes lets forget that and harp on about obito not expecting minato to attack him after he tagged him. i guess obito had a brain freeze and forgot he is marked once he is touched


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## StarWanderer (Jul 10, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> being a sensor is how minato would know. the chains had no chakra signal
> 
> yes after a blindside attack lol
> 
> ...



But what if Obito was a Raiton user and could paralise Minato the moment he got in those chains, for example? Still very risky to be in them for Minato, so it would have been smarter for him to not get there.

After a blindside appearance, i'd say.

He could be in danger. It would have been a smart move to teleport away right after he saw him phasing through his hand. he is a kage, a shinobi considered a genious, after all.

Bad example. Minato saw him phasing. He didnt know anything about his opponent's jutsu arsenal. So it would have been smarter for him to teleport away right after he saw Obito phasing through him. 

There are lots of logical proofs which i brought in other threads. I wont do that again here.

Obito could very well expect Minato to counter him there. And, as i said before, he could wait for a good moment after he appeared behind Minato. 

In the case with Juubito and Juubidara, it was clear that Minato didnt have good enough reaction speed to react to them.

KCM Minato was a sensor. Juubito's arms were at his, as you say, LOS. But Juubito was so fast KCM Minato couldnt do anything at all. He couldnt react, thus couldnt teleport away and couldnt dodge/block. The same thing was with Juubidara. Minato couldnt react and wasnt physicaly fast enough. 

Also, Obito didnt know that he was marked. And he simply couldnt react to Minato's moves in that instance. But anyway, that proves nothing. 

I hope you wont say later that Minato lost his arms because he was surprised it both occasions, not because he was slower.


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## Icegaze (Jul 10, 2015)

> StarWanderer said:
> 
> 
> > But what if Obito was a Raiton user and could paralise Minato the moment he got in those chains, for example? Still very risky to be in them for Minato, so it would have been smarter for him to not get there.
> ...


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## ShadoLord (Jul 10, 2015)

7th Gate Gai's offensive prowess is far above Ay with his Hirudora. 

That attack took out Madara's Susanoo(or even Perfect Susanoo). 7th Gate Gai should have enough speed to react and fight on par with Ay while his offensive prowess is superior so Gai wins.


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## StarWanderer (Jul 11, 2015)

> ah that straw grapsing. if obito was using raiton minato would sense it. so very moot straw grasping laughable desperate failed attempt at making a point
> 
> he wasnt in any risk. simply put



He could use it the moment Minato got into chains. So what's the point for Minato to risk there? If he could, he would have teleported away. But he couldnt.



> yes appered with his hand lunged at the enemy. need scans?



Obito admitted that he didnt absorb Minato right after he touched him. And he said that he will absorb him right after a touch next time. Need scans? 



> and what did he do when obito attacked him. oh yh thats right he used hirashin and got away.



When he was being absorbed. He couldnt teleport away before that, when he saw Obito phasing through him. 



> nope by then he knew obito goes intagible to let attacks slip through him and solidifies to attack.
> 
> do u need the scan before that attack?



Show me a scan where it is said Minato knows about his Kamui ability before he attacked Minato from behind and grabbed his hand.



> nothign logical its naruto. scans or statements. not opinions



Its arguements, proofs and logic.



> and minato will always dodge once obito attacks



I am not so sure about adult Obito.

Plus, Minato couldnt dodge in that instance.



> true both of which are horribly above obito or anyone else in all departments



Yet Edo Tobirama has shown better reaction speed than *amped* Minato. 



> yh i know they are juubi jin's what does that have to do with anyone else which those same juubi jins slapped away



Juubidara, someone above Juubito in speed department, couldnt blitz 7 Gate Gai, but speedblitzed SM Edo Minato.

Juubito cut off KCM Minato's arm before he could teleport away.

7 Gate Gai is too fast for The Raikage.



> it proves that u give obito the excuse of not knowing he was marked
> 
> yet forget minato reaction time could have been hindered because he didnt know juubito regained control.



That's a fact, not an excuse. 

That "surprise" arguement again. I countered that in another thread.

It has nothing to do with this debate anyway. 7 Gate Gai knocks Ei out with Hirudora.



> well if u can claim obito got hit because he didnt know he was marked and not because he didnt have the reactions to do shit about it then i can claim
> 
> minato was surprised. juubito just regained control and juudara was expecting him. he didnt expect to be countered
> 
> ...



Those cases were different. But i admit Obito couldnt react to Minato appearing right before him.

The cases were different. KCM Mianto could teleport away at any time. And he got surprised before the strike. 

SM Minato knew what Juubi Jins are capable off, so he wasnt surprised at all. He just couldnt react.


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## Icegaze (Jul 11, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> He could use it the moment Minato got into chains. So what's the point for Minato to risk there? If he could, he would have teleported away. But he couldnt.



because minato was sure he could jump before obito did anything with the chains. which he did. so again hirashin isnt just used for fun. no danger why use it



> Obito admitted that he didnt absorb Minato right after he touched him. And he said that he will absorb him right after a touch next time. Need scans?



after an ambush attack from behind. did obito ever manage to come close to touchign minato again? nope he got hit twice and ran



> When he was being absorbed. He couldnt teleport away before that, when he saw Obito phasing through him.



obito was talking he listened. obito attacked he hirahsin'd away. 



> Show me a scan where it is said Minato knows about his Kamui ability before he attacked Minato from behind and grabbed his hand


.

 am referring to the second attack with the chains. not the first one where obito ambushes minato. minato still swings before obito can touch him. obito phases through, tries to attack minato and gets evaded.



> Its arguements, proofs and logic.



that word dont apply to ur arguments. 



> I am not so sure about adult Obito.
> 
> Plus, Minato couldnt dodge in that instance.



u mean the instance where he dodge?



> Yet Edo Tobirama has shown better reaction speed than *amped* Minato.



being run through and split in half has nothing to do with juubito attackign u and taking ur arm off. not the same time frame. 



> Juubidara, someone above Juubito in speed department, couldnt blitz 7 Gate Gai, but speedblitzed SM Edo Minato.



he didnt blitz minato. lol he attacked minato before minato coudl attack. a blitz would require moving from point A to B. juudara didnt move

and last i checked hirudora got the same treatement 



> Juubito cut off KCM Minato's arm before he could teleport away.



after being surprised that juubito regained control 



> 7 Gate Gai is too fast for The Raikage.



i agree. 




> That's a fact, not an excuse.
> 
> That "surprise" arguement again. I countered that in another thread.
> 
> It has nothing to do with this debate anyway. 7 Gate Gai knocks Ei out with Hirudora.



i agree. gai wins. did i say he looses to A?




> Those cases were different. But i admit Obito couldnt react to Minato appearing right before him.
> 
> The cases were different. KCM Mianto could teleport away at any time. And he got surprised before the strike.



concession accepted. 

how could he teleport at anytime while being surprised? but tbh minato not being able to jump before juubito attacks him makes sense. tobirama also got split in half just to touch juubito who wasnt even in control

not sure minato was opting for that. 




> SM Minato knew what Juubi Jins are capable off, so he wasnt surprised at all. He just couldnt react.




he still was. why wouldnt he be. 

obito knew of minato hirashin yet was genuinely surprised he was being trolled


again not being able to react to juudara isnt bad on minato. 

7th gate gai can have better reactions than minato. thats cool, what i disagree with is gai being able to cover a distance and kill minato before he lets go of a kunai. which is all thats needed to get behidn gai 

regardless of how fast gai is


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## StarWanderer (Jul 11, 2015)

> because minato was sure he could jump before obito did anything with the chains. which he did. so again hirashin isnt just used for fun. no danger why use it



Minato never was arrogant. And you cant be sure about anything with an opponent you know nothing about. 

There is a danger even if you are a Hiraishin user. Hiraishin doesnt make you invincible. Especially Minato, who can be defeated by lots of non-Godlike shinobi.



> after an ambush attack from behind. did obito ever manage to come close to touchign minato again? nope he got hit twice and ran



He got Minato in his chains. 



> obito was talking he listened. obito attacked he hirahsin'd away.



Obito started to absorb him, Minato hiraishined away after the absorbtion has begun.



> am referring to the second attack with the chains. not the first one where obito ambushes minato. minato still swings before obito can touch him. obito phases through, tries to attack minato and gets evaded.



Minato couldnt teleport away when Obito was phasing through him. 



> that word dont apply to ur arguments.



It does. And i am not the only one who thinks so.



> u mean the instance where he dodge?



Minato couldnt dodge his chains and couldnt teleport away while Obito phased through his hand.



> being run through and split in half has nothing to do with juubito attackign u and taking ur arm off. not the same time frame.



Tobirama was in a close range - marked Juubito and havent dodged because he was attempting a kamikaze-style move. KCM Minato was in a clsoe range - did nothing and lost his arm. Whose reaction speed and striking speed is faster? That's right - Tobirama's. Both Tobirama and Minato were attacked.



> he didnt blitz minato. lol he attacked minato before minato coudl attack. a blitz would require moving from point A to B. juudara didnt move
> 
> and last i checked hirudora got the same treatement



Hitting your opponent more than once before he has a chance to react and kick him out of the attacking range = speedblitz. SM Minato *was* speedblitzed. 

Hirudora didnt have the same treatment. Hirudora's air pressure was released before Juubidara could swing his arm. And just look at Juubidara's face.expression. 



> i agree.



I am glad we agree on that.



> i agree. gai wins. did i say he looses to A?



Cool.



> concession accepted.
> 
> how could he teleport at anytime while being surprised? but tbh minato not being able to jump before juubito attacks him makes sense. tobirama also got split in half just to touch juubito who wasnt even in control
> 
> not sure minato was opting for that.



He was before he attacked Juubito. Because he saw how Obito regained a control over Juubi's chakra. After that, he continued an attack, but was blocked. And later couldnt react to Juubito's counter-strike.



> he still was. why wouldnt he be.
> 
> obito knew of minato hirashin yet was genuinely surprised he was being trolled
> 
> ...



If he could, he would have reacted to Juubidara in that instance. The same thing is with KCM Minato. They both couldnt react to Juubi Jins. because even if you are surprised, it doesnt freeze your movement. 

Obito couldnt react first of all because Minato appeared right before him and touched him from a very short range.

Juubidara couldnt move away when Gai appeared right before him and was surprised about Gai's speed, yet Minato will be able to react and let go of a kunai? Minato cant do that. His reaction speed and movement speed isnt good enough to do that.


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## Icegaze (Jul 12, 2015)

you and the chains that did nothing. so what did u expect after he immediately got his attack phased through that he jumps to avoid harmless chains that were by the way attached to obito body. which means the instant minato phased through the chains were already on him

but like I said. did the chains do anything? which is really the entire point

btw I got a brain teaser for you

how can you say KCM Naruto got better reactions than minato when he couldn't get out of the way of obito swinging a bloody fan at him? swinging at a distance

yet minato is somehow to magically never get touched by chains that were directly behind obito. i.e u phase through obito the chains are already making contact with you

bias much buddy?


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## Harbour (Jul 13, 2015)

Lel people are just suck Gai's dick. Overestimate him hard.The dude's best achievement in his non-suicidal form is temporary knocked out Samehada-less chakra-nerfed Kisame who was low-S rank without it.
Ei would tear Gai apart. He simply the best in the aspects which were critically low in Kisame. Almost no ninjutsu using, top speed, defense and top strength.


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## StarWanderer (Jul 13, 2015)

> you and the chains that did nothing. so what did u expect after he immediately got his attack phased through that he jumps to avoid harmless chains that were by the way attached to obito body. which means the instant minato phased through the chains were already on him



He could teleport as soosn as he saw those chains, when Obito phased through him.



> but like I said. did the chains do anything? which is really the entire point



He is not an idiot to get into those chains of a shinobi he knows almost nothing about.



> how can you say KCM Naruto got better reactions than minato when he couldn't get out of the way of obito swinging a bloody fan at him? swinging at a distance



Did i say that Minato's reactions are >>>> KCM Naruto's reactions? KCM Naruto's Shunshin and movement speed is a lot faster than that of Minato. Reaction speed, however, is debatable.

And adult Obito >>>>>>>>>> young Obito in terms of movement speed and reaction speed.



> yet minato is somehow to magically never get touched by chains that were directly behind obito. i.e u phase through obito the chains are already making contact with you



He saw them before they made a contact with him. He could teleport away before getting into those chains, but he didnt. 





> bias much buddy?



It seems i should ask you that quastion.


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## Icegaze (Jul 13, 2015)

> StarWanderer said:
> 
> 
> > He could teleport as soosn as he saw those chains, when Obito phased through him.
> ...


----------



## StarWanderer (Jul 22, 2015)

> so u want him to teleport while obito is partially phasing through him. didn't know he could do that



What was gonna prevent him from teleporting away? Obito was intangible. And Minato had no chakra link with him. 



> harmless chains. whats the risk



Those chains might not be harmless right after Minato got into them. You havent refuted my arguement, so i can repeat myself here. But i wont. 



> no u said kCM Naruto reactions are superior. which is false.
> 
> KCM Naruto shunshin can be>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>minato if u want it to be. that's irrelevant
> 
> minato uses hirashin to get from A to B. therefore he is and always will be faster than KCM naruto



That's not "if i want it to be". KCM Naruto has better Shunshin feats than base Minato. 

And why false? KCM Naruto's performances in reaction speed department are comparable, if not better. 

Yeah, thanks to teleportation. Iruka sensei could be faster than KCM naruto with Minato's Hiraishin. Because he can teleport from point A to point B.



> feats of minato teleporting while a person is partially phased through him. didn't know he could do that



How exactly Obito phasing through is gonna prevent him from teleporting away?



> see above. so we assume with no feats to back it up that he should be able to jump when someone is partially phased through him.
> 
> smart for someone who harps on about feats not sure u know how it works.



Explain to me how exactly a person phased through him should prevent him from teleporting away.



> so says the guy who harps on about KCM Naruto reactions being superior when a fan coming his way hit him because he couldn't avoid it.
> 
> 
> fan fic adult obito being superior, if he was the author would say so. the height of kamui is being able to self wrap something obito could do
> ...



From adult Obito who has lots of striking speed feats. Base Minato couldnt teleport away from chains and couldnt teleport away when Obito phased through him. 

His body became bigger and he changed Zetsu parts because his body got bigger, his brain have changed. His reaction speed got a lot better, so did his striking speed, when he was capable of striking so fast even KCM Naruto couldnt get out of his line of attack. Someone with reaction speed not worse than that of Minato and faster Shunshin. 

Different Zetsu parts (unless you wanna give me a proof zetsu parts grow with Zetsu parts user's own body, but that wont refute my arguement, obviously), changed brain (it doesnt stay the same after 17 years, when a person grows up from a teenager to an adult man). Nothing wrong with adult Obito being superior to his younger counterpart, especially when adult Obito has better feats in every department.


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## Icegaze (Jul 22, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> What was gonna prevent him from teleporting away? Obito was intangible. And Minato had no chakra link with him.



but he has no feats of being able to teleport when someone is phased through him
or have u forgotten how feats work despite harping on about them?



> Those chains might not be harmless right after Minato got into them. You havent refuted my arguement, so i can repeat myself here. But i wont.



he a sensor. and they were harmless. or did something happen?



> That's not "if i want it to be". KCM Naruto has better Shunshin feats than base Minato.



good thing minato has hirashin then and can throw a kunai quicker than Naruto shunshin. loooool u straw grasping 



> And why false? KCM Naruto's performances in reaction speed department are comparable, if not better.



lol A to B minato always gets there first the reason is u trolling



> Yeah, thanks to teleportation. Iruka sensei could be faster than KCM naruto with Minato's Hiraishin. Because he can teleport from point A to point B.



and A is fast thanks to bijuu chakra pumped shunshin. your point?



> How exactly Obito phasing through is gonna prevent him from teleporting away?



again he got no feats of doing that for a feat wanker, why assume he can do it? when he hasn't shown the ability to?



> Explain to me how exactly a person phased through him should prevent him from teleporting away.



I don't need to. he got no feats of being able to. or do u decide when to pick and choose when feats matter and when they don't?




> From adult Obito who has lots of striking speed feats. Base Minato couldnt teleport away from chains and couldnt teleport away when Obito phased through him.



odd how those chains did nothing but ok 



> His body became bigger and he changed Zetsu parts because his body got bigger, his brain have changed. His reaction speed got a lot better, so did his striking speed, when he was capable of striking so fast even KCM Naruto couldnt get out of his line of attack. Someone with reaction speed not worse than that of Minato and faster Shunshin.



prove his body became bigger. no indication of such. where is it written? 
prove he changed zetsu parts 
so really this entire bit is speculation. ok 

oh so let me get ur wank straight obito improved because he could hit KCM Naruto, and that's a + for obito and not a minus for Naruto who apparently is so much faster than minato yet cant avoid a simple fan attack. 

yh double standards much



> Different Zetsu parts (unless you wanna give me a proof zetsu parts grow with Zetsu parts user's own body, but that wont refute my arguement, obviously), changed brain (it doesnt stay the same after 17 years, when a person grows up from a teenager to an adult man). Nothing wrong with adult Obito being superior to his younger counterpart, especially when adult Obito has better feats in every department.


give me proof they don't grow. kishi made no indication of improvement because said improvement is irrelevant to the entire bloody plot. 

so u are saying if u are a fighter at 14 that automatically at 30 odds u would have better reactions and quicker reflexes and stronger body simply because u grew older?

well considering the brain peek performance is at 21 and then drops again I don't even see how ur argment makes sense 

then again u are using BS real world logic that doesn't apply to the manga

when kishi wants an improvement noted he always bloody mentions it. he is so obvious about it as well.


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## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Jul 22, 2015)

Yo Icegaze, im sorry but WTF do you continue to waste your time arguing with this clown. Im reading his quotes in your posts and its just ridiculous.

This guy is going on about the danger of chains and how obito could have been a raiton user and crap XD. The straw grasping he does is beyond rational.

I blocked him ages ago,but you replying to him has forced me to read his nonsense again. Smh, comparing full knowlege gai vs obito to zero knowledge minato vs blind sided full knowldge sneak attack obito smh.


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## Icegaze (Jul 22, 2015)

hey Rasen that's not the worst of it
its going on about feats while trying its very hardest to claim 

minato feat with omyoton and 8th gate gai is invalid because he couldn't avoid juubito..either that or gai slowed down... no reason to slow down but sure

however what he forgets which is why its always fun to talk to him and have a laugh is 

how can someone rationally claim gai pressured juudara in 7th gate and gai can kill just about everyone including the gokage

yet with backup from BM Naruto, kakashi and hachibi they couldn't seal ET madara who is infinitely weaker than juudara 

why didn't gai just go 7th gate and neg diff ET madara. who btw was holding back while beating the shit out of gai and hachibi

but yh common gotta admit its loads of fun

when harmless chains are brought up as an argument.


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## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Jul 22, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> hey Rasen that's not the worst of it
> its going on about feats while trying its very hardest to claim
> 
> minato feat with omyoton and 8th gate gai is invalid because he couldn't avoid juubito..either that or gai slowed down... no reason to slow down but sure
> ...



Yeesh, not only that but apparently he doesnt need evidence or feats to back up his claims...But he will ask you for evidence instead, yet he himself has no facts. 

90% of his posts are straw grasping and statements with no back up. Yet he thinks he know what he is talking about. I've seen trolls with better manga understanding than him.


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## Icegaze (Jul 22, 2015)

lol alright lets stop it 
could be considered flamebait 

in any case feats to me<<portrayal and manga statements 

otherwise hinata is faster and a better cqc fighter than kakashi which is hilarious at best


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## StarWanderer (Jul 23, 2015)

> but he has no feats of being able to teleport when someone is phased through him
> or have u forgotten how feats work despite harping on about them?



There is no proof in manga, or Databook, that Kamui intangibility can affect Hiraishin.



> he a sensor. and they were harmless. or did something happen?



It is a risk to get into those chains, because Minato didnt know much about Obito's jutsu arsenal. He is a sensor, he havent felt any chakra in those chains, but there could be chakra right after Minato got into them, which could paralize Minato or do something else to him. It is stupid to willingly get into those chains against someone who's jutsu arsenal is unknown.



> good thing minato has hirashin then and can throw a kunai quicker than Naruto shunshin. loooool u straw grasping



It is debatable if Minato's kunai speed is faster than KCM Naruto's Shunshin. But anyway, Minato can get way faster to any location where is his Hiraishin mark. 



> lol A to B minato always gets there first the reason is u trolling



If he has a Hiraishin mark there.

LOL, i am trolling? No. Dont tell me about trolling - you say that KCM doesnt amp reaction speed, although it is pretty obvious it does, yet you call me a troll? 



> and A is fast thanks to bijuu chakra pumped shunshin. your point?



My point is - teleportation makes travel speed way faster. That's all. 



> again he got no feats of doing that for a feat wanker, why assume he can do it? when he hasn't shown the ability to?



See above.



> I don't need to.



You do. There is no proof of Kamui phasing affect Hiraishin in any way. I understand the situation with KCM Naruto and base Naruto - base Naruto has shown reaction speed feats, but KCM Naruto's feats in that department were many times greater. So it is logical to say that KCM amps reactions. This situation is way different. 



> odd how those chains did nothing but ok



That doesnt matter. See above.



> prove his body became bigger



Wat? Obito cant grow from a teenager to an adult man? His body cant grow? You realy want me to prove that? An obvious trolling attempt. *His head was as big as that of adult Kakashi, his torso part was as big as the same torso part of adult Kakashi's torso. Obito, as any individual, grows.* 



> prove he changed zetsu parts



Either they grow with him, or he changed them. Nevertheless, Zetsu parts didnt stay the same.



> so really this entire bit is speculation. ok



*An ability of Obito to grow from a teenager to an adult man is a speculation? Even Hussain doesnt troll like that.*



> oh so let me get ur wank straight obito improved because he could hit KCM Naruto, and that's a + for obito and not a minus for Naruto who apparently is so much faster than minato yet cant avoid a simple fan attack.
> 
> yh double standards much



A simple fan which moved so fast thanks to Obito's movement speed. 

KCM naruto has faster Shunshin than Minato and reaction speed... lets say, not worse than that of Minato, yet he couldnt get out of Obito's attack line. Plus, adult Obito fought Gai, KCM Naruto and Kakashi at the same time. Young Obito is not equal to that.



> give me proof they don't grow. kishi made no indication of improvement because said improvement is irrelevant to the entire bloody plot.



Even if they grow, they dont stay the same. That's my point.

He made an indication of improvement - adult obito's performance against Gai, Kakashi and KCM Naruto at the same time. 



> so u are saying if u are a fighter at 14 that automatically at 30 odds u would have better reactions and quicker reflexes and stronger body simply because u grew older?



A 14 years old teenager with good physique has the same reaction speed and movement speed as a 30 years old man with good physique? Realy? 



> well considering the brain peek performance is at 21 and then drops again I don't even see how ur argment makes sense



At 21, not 14. 



> then again u are using BS real world logic that doesn't apply to the manga



Ok. A part 1 Sasuke had Shunshin as fast as that of Hebi Sasuke. Teenager kakashi's Shunshin is as fast as that of War Arc kakashi. Nice logic out there, Isegaze.



> when kishi wants an improvement noted he always bloody mentions it. he is so obvious about it as well.



So part 1 Sasuke's Shunshin was as fast as that of Hebi Sasuke? 

Or maybe Kakashi's teenager Shunshin was as fast as his War Arc Shunshin?


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## Icegaze (Jul 23, 2015)

those chains which did nothing

u still failign to address minato getting to a location before 8th gate gai

thats a feat Mr feat man

you might not like it but its there for you to see

arent you the guy who also said later feats overrule the previous ones? 

 buddy

the rest is naturally bla bla 

ps: by the end of the manga Db4 kishi still refers to Minato speed as god like despite the juudara's, juubito's and all 

no surprise minato got to the omyoton before gai could move

7th gate gai looses to minato


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## StarWanderer (Jul 25, 2015)

> those chains which did nothing
> 
> u still failign to address minato getting to a location before 8th gate gai



I have already explained why Gai slowed down there.

And i also explained why it would have been stupid for Minato to get into those chains. You havent refute my arguements.



> thats a feat Mr feat man
> 
> you might not like it but its there for you to see
> 
> ...



I am not paying attention only to feats - i also pay attention to many details about those feats. 

Where did i say that later feats overrule previous ones?



> the rest is naturally bla bla
> 
> ps: by the end of the manga Db4 kishi still refers to Minato speed as god like despite the juudara's, juubito's and all
> 
> ...



LOL, so Minato is faster than Juubidara and Juubito because of that DB statement? His speed was "godlike" because he was the best at teleporting. But he doesnt have reaction speed and movement speed to compete with Juubito, Juubidara and 7 Gate Gai. They are on a completely different level and manga shows that. Juubidara *speedblitzed* amped Minato, yet failed to do the same with 7 Gate Gai. Juubito, who is slower than Juubidara, cut off KCM Minato's arm easily. 

7 Gate Gai beats Minato because Minato's brain is not fast enough to react to 7 Gate Gai's speed. His brain wasnt fast enough to teleport away from Juubito and prevent him from chopping off his arm. His brain wasnt fast enough to teleport away from Juubidara and prevent him from chopping off his another arm. In both of these occasions, Minato was *amped*. 7 Gate Gai slaughters Minato effortlessly.


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## Icegaze (Jul 25, 2015)

So and you have no proof he slowed down 
Feel free to get proof instead of the dumb argument of Minato got hit by juudara and juubito therefore Gai slowed down 

Also get some evidence on those chains being more than harmless chains and we will talk


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## StarWanderer (Jul 25, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> So and you have no proof he slowed down
> Feel free to get proof instead of the dumb argument of Minato got hit by juudara and juubito therefore Gai slowed down
> 
> Also get some evidence on those chains being more than harmless chains and we will talk



Base Edo Minato couldnt react to 8 Gate Gai's full speed, because SM Edo Minato - *amped* Edo Minato - couldnt react to someone who is slower than 8 Gate Gai - Juubidara. 

Also, there were good reasons to slow down - Juubidara's Gudoudama sphere, a wish to hit Juubidara himself, not his protective sphere and his teammates, which were trying to help him hit Juubidara himself.

Juubidara's Gudoudamas were faster than Kamui absorbtion, yet Kamui absorbtion was faster than 8 Gate Gai's full speed, which is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gudoudama's speed?

Gai clearly wasnt moving at his full speed. 

I already explained why it would have been completely idiotic for Minato to willingly get into those chains. Read above.


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## Icegaze (Jul 25, 2015)

Lol 
Retard repeating himself

Till you got statements of him slowing down he didn't 

Gai in 7th gate also didn't neg diff ET madara who was holding back 

Does that make his feat against juudara invalid no it doesn't

do u need the scan ? Cut your Bs logic out . why mention lee timing if Gai is slowing down 
Then again Gai slowing down is retarded why slow down when he trying to kill juudara ? 

I guess omyoton slowed down as well for Minato just to ensure Minato intercepted it


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## StarWanderer (Jul 25, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> Lol
> Retard repeating himself
> 
> Till you got statements of him slowing down he didn't
> ...



Insulting me when you cant refute my arguements? Yeah, it seems it is the only thing you can do at this point, besides trolling.

Anyway, i want you to prove Gai used 7 Gate against ET Madara in the same way he used it against Juubidara. You can bring whatever you want to prove that. I'll wait.

And how in the world his words about Lee's timing proves Gai was moving at his full speed? 

I have already explained why it is not retarded. Read above.


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## Icegaze (Jul 25, 2015)

Why wouldn't he 
Wasn't he trying to win ? Or u think he held back against ET madara just because he had a crush on him?
Retard is not an insult towards you. Why think that ?


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## StarWanderer (Jul 25, 2015)

> Why wouldn't he



Because it is not in his character. The only opponent he fought in 7 Gate right off the bat was Juubidara. Why couldnt he activate 7 Gate in his fight with Kisame from the start to not give him a chance to escape and get information from him? 

And it happened off-panel. Madara jumped, Gai stood there and what happened after - we dont know. But Gai was beaten. You are trying to use an off-panel fight as an arguement.



> Retard is not an insult towards you. Why think that ?



Guess who you are, when a retard is dominating you in debates for such a great time period.


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## Jad (Jul 26, 2015)

I believe in a scenario that Minato tries what he did to Juudara on Gai (7 Gates), which may happen again, considering he thought he could hit a God Tier character, Minato get's smashed. I also don't think you can really use the argument "Minato will see Gai in 7 Gates and think not to engage" as being a strong rebuttal, as again, he tried so against Juudara. But it's whatever. I mean he did lost two arms in that war think he could engange Juubi Jins in CQC.


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## Kyu (Jul 26, 2015)

> I believe in a scenario that Minato tries what he did to Juudara on Gai (7 Gates), which may happen again, considering he thought he could hit a God Tier character, Minato get's smashed. I also don't think you can really use the argument "Minato will see Gai in 7 Gates and think not to engage" as being a strong rebuttal, as again, he tried so against Juudara. But it's whatever. I mean he did lost two arms in that war think he could engange Juubi Jins in CQC.



Minato & co. were put into a position where they had to prevent Obito from approaching Madara - therefore it was his job to distract Madara while Kakashi warps Yin-Kurama's vessel elsewhere.

Entirely different from a 1 on 1 fight where the circumstances don't limit you to rushing into the oppositions's field of expertise.


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## Atlantic Storm (Jul 26, 2015)

Cut out the flame bait in the discussion,  please. Thanks.


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## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Jul 26, 2015)

Jad said:


> I believe in a scenario that Minato tries what he did to Juudara on Gai (7 Gates), which may happen again, considering he thought he could hit a God Tier character, Minato get's smashed. I also don't think you can really use the argument "Minato will see Gai in 7 Gates and think not to engage" as being a strong rebuttal, as again, he tried so against Juudara. But it's whatever. I mean he did lost two arms in that war think he could engange Juubi Jins in CQC.



Look at the situations before making such statements. He desperately attacked madara because he had to do something to buy time for the others and keep obito away from him. It was an all out desperate attack which ultimately failed, that is in no way minatos usual form of attack. And against obito, did you forget that the hokage were taking advantage of their immortal bodies. They were deliberately attacking recklessly as sasuke already explained. It was just damn convenient that at the moment minato finally reached Obito, he gained full control of his powers and was able to negate edo tensei regeneration.

Yes minato seeing gai in 7 gates means phe wont engage, if this is a 1 vs 1 fight with no other interference then that is exactly what minato will do. He did the same against Ei, went on the defensive (set up several markings) and let Ei come to him. He'll do the exact same to Gai.


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## Icegaze (Jul 26, 2015)

Quite obvious Minato just wanted to get in between why use just Hirashin level 1 when he got 2 levels above that 

If he really just wasnt trying to get in between he would have lasted as long as Gai based on 

1) where he appears being less predictable 
2) clone to distract 

Gai pushed juudara back doesn't mean everyone weaker gets instantly killed 
Awful dumb logic 

Considering Gai lasted basically 1 panel longer than Minato


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## StarWanderer (Jul 27, 2015)

> Gai pushed juudara back doesn't mean everyone weaker gets instantly killed
> Awful dumb logic



I agree.

Not everyone, but almost everyone. Ei wont be killed though - he will be knocked out by Hirudora.



> Considering Gai lasted basically 1 panel longer than Minato



So what? He did a lot more than *amped* Edo Minato and wasnt blitzed.


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## Icegaze (Jul 28, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> I agree.
> 
> Not everyone, but almost everyone. Ei wont be killed though - he will be knocked out by Hirudora.
> 
> ...



forgetting said amped character had 1 arm

or do u think fighting with 1 hand isn't a handicap 

I can assure you gai with 1 hand would have been a lot easier to slap away and cant even use hirudora 

I await your brilliant post as always


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## StarWanderer (Jul 28, 2015)

> forgetting said amped character had 1 arm



1 additional arm makes him faster or something? How exactly that would have helped him? He would have been blitzed anyway, 2 arms or not.



> or do u think fighting with 1 hand isn't a handicap



In case with Minato, who uses only 1 arm to attack with a Rasengan, 1 another arm changes nothing at all. What do you think he could do if he had 2 arms? Dodge Juubidara's counter-attack? Nope.



> I can assure you gai with 1 hand would have been a lot easier to slap away and cant even use hirudora



Minato, even with 2 arms, would have attacked Juubito in the same way he attacked him in canon - with 1 arm. Another arm wont make any difference. Well, maybe Minato would have tried to quickly create another Sage chakra amped Rasengan with another arm. Then, he would have lost 2 arms.



> I await your brilliant post as always



Your posts are brilliant enough already. Do you apply that if Minato had 2 arms, he wouldnt have been blitzed?


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## Icegaze (Jul 28, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> 1 additional arm makes him faster or something? How exactly that would have helped him? He would have been blitzed anyway, 2 arms or not.



wow !!! 2 hands gives him the ability to use clones and rasen flash dance. a far less predictable attack than what he did

are u saying gai with 1 hand would have fought the same way? really dude! seriously whats wrong with you am curious



> In case with Minato, who uses only 1 arm to attack with a Rasengan, 1 another arm changes nothing at all. What do you think he could do if he had 2 arms? Dodge Juubidara's counter-attack? Nope.





 see above



> Minato, even with 2 arms, would have attacked Juubito in the same way he attacked him in canon - with 1 arm. Another arm wont make any difference. Well, maybe Minato would have tried to quickly create another Sage chakra amped Rasengan with another arm. Then, he would have lost 2 arms.



 see above



> Your posts are brilliant enough already. Do you apply that if Minato had 2 arms, he wouldnt have been blitzed?



I guess 1 handed gai can use hirudora and fight the same way. 

Rasen I finally understand you


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## StarWanderer (Jul 28, 2015)

> wow !!! 2 hands gives him the ability to use clones and rasen flash dance. a far less predictable attack than what he did
> 
> are u saying gai with 1 hand would have fought the same way? really dude! seriously whats wrong with you am curious


*
Facepalm.*

His arm was chopped off as soon as he appeared and started to move his hand at Juubidara's direction. The moment he makes a seal after being teleported near Juubidara, which is necessary for creating clones - his whole body gets chopped in half by Gudoudama staff.

He teleports near Juubidara, attempts to do anything - gets cut by Gudoudama staff. Predictable is his attack, or not - it doesnt matter, since Juubidara is a sensor. 

Of course, he can use clones and other techniques, after which he can get close to him, but then he, nonetheless, gets cut. Juubidara chopped his hand off, kicked it away and kicked Minato himself. If there are several clones - Juubidara swings his staff and Minato gets cut. Juubidara could slice him 3 times with Gudoudama staff, although Minato was *amped*. 

If Minato is near Juubidara, then it doesnt matter what technique he uses - he gets chopped into pieces. 

Because that's how fast Juubidara is compare to Minato. 

7 Gate Gai, who could surprise Juubidara with his speed, was so fast Juubidara couldnt do anything while Gai rushed at him and pressurred Juubidara, speedblitz Minato. Simply because Minato wont be able to react and teleport away. 

Minato dies.


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## Kyu (Jul 28, 2015)

> 7 Gate Gai, who could surprise Juubidara with his speed, was so fast Juubidara couldnt do anything while Gai rushed at him and pressurred Juubidara,



He "couldn't do anything", yet he interrupts 7th Gate's fastest punch and oneshots Gai with his staff.

Was Madara Shocked by 7th gate's speed? Yes. Pressured? No. Madara knew nothing short of the 8th gate was a legitimate threat to him; Senjutsu in general is a different story altogether as it can't be nullified by Truth-Seekers and it can damage a Juubi host's body. Minato's Senpō: Rasengan was partially a diversion in an attempt to secure Yin-Kurama that was inside Black Zetsu, therefore Madara went on the offensive, squashing all 3 of them in one go to acquire what he wanted in BZ/Obito.

Yin Kurama already found a new jinchuuriki by the time Gai appeared.


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## LostSelf (Jul 28, 2015)

Madara was as bloodlusted with Gai as he was with the others. Be it Tobirama, Sasuke, Minato, etc. The man was going to kill Gai the moment he took him down.

Diversion or not, Minato did worse against a Madara that was no fucking around with anyone.


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## ChaddyMan1 (Jul 29, 2015)

I honestly think the Hirudora would have hurt Madara, that's why he blocked it. I mean even though he blocked it, it knocked him a few hundred feet away.


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## Jad (Jul 29, 2015)

I don't understand people saying Madara stopped Gai's fastest punch. 

Gai clearly finished his punch, hence the tiger appearing. Madara stopped the Tiger from carrying him off and exploding fully, he did not stop the fastest punch from executing successfully. So what am I missing?


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## ChaddyMan1 (Jul 29, 2015)

He didn't stop the punch, he split the air from the punch down the middle as it came forward and it detonated early while Gai and him were in close proximity.


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## Icegaze (Jul 29, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> *
> Facepalm.*
> 
> His arm was chopped off as soon as he appeared and started to move his hand at Juubidara's direction. The moment he makes a seal after being teleported near Juubidara, which is necessary for creating clones - his whole body gets chopped in half by Gudoudama staff.
> ...



 he makes the clone before attacking juudara


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## Icegaze (Jul 29, 2015)

Jad said:


> I don't understand people saying Madara stopped Gai's fastest punch.
> 
> Gai clearly finished his punch, hence the tiger appearing. Madara stopped the Tiger from carrying him off and exploding fully, he did not stop the fastest punch from executing successfully. So what am I missing?



semantics 
he stoped hirudora gai admitted fastest punch. the air canon itself is hirudora

would u say if EE air canon was blocked that in fact gai punch wasnt blocked but just the air canon 

the punch creates the canon no punch no canon

air canon stopped= fastest punch stopped since he isnt using his hand to hit u directly


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## StarWanderer (Jul 29, 2015)

> he makes the clone before attacking juudara



And if he teleports with his clone to Juubidara as close as he did in canon, he gets chopped into pieces alongside his clone.



> semantics
> he stoped hirudora gai admitted fastest punch. the air canon itself is hirudora
> 
> would u say if EE air canon was blocked that in fact gai punch wasnt blocked but just the air canon
> ...



The air pressure was released, thus Hirudora has been made, hence why Juubidara couldnt cut his arms in order to prevent Hirudora and hence why we see released air in that panel. Juubidara nerfed Hirudora's effect.


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## Kyu (Jul 29, 2015)

Jad said:


> I don't understand people saying Madara stopped Gai's fastest punch.
> 
> Gai clearly finished his punch, hence the tiger appearing. Madara stopped the Tiger from carrying him off and exploding fully, he did not stop the fastest punch from executing successfully. So what am I missing?





ChaddyMan1 said:


> He didn't stop the punch, he split the air from the punch down the middle as it came forward and it detonated early while Gai and him were in close proximity.



He prevented Hirudora(7th Gate's fastest attack) from shooting out and connecting with him at close range. He didn't stop the fastest punch from executing successfully; he stopped the punch from landing successfully.

Had he been unable to respond to 7th gated Gai - like so many suggest - this wouldn't have occurred.

People mistake a surprised expression and evading as being pressured without properly examining the context in which this all transpired.



LostSelf said:


> Madara was as bloodlusted with Gai as he was with the others. Be it Tobirama, Sasuke, Minato, etc. The man was going to kill Gai the moment he took him down.



Again, in spite of the context heavily suggesting otherwise.



> Diversion or not, Minato did worse against a Madara that was no fucking around with anyone.



So yeah we're ignoring he'd naturally take a more aggressive approach as Minato, Kakashi, & Gaara were cockblocking him from his Rinnegan _and_ the final biju - his two most prized assets. 

I'm not saying 7th Gated Gai isn't faster than a slightly nerfed SM Minato, but let's not act like Madara could do nothing but jump back. The man reacted to EE's initial step twice for Christ sake.[*1*][*2*]


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## StarWanderer (Jul 29, 2015)

> He prevented Hirudora(7th Gate's fastest attack) from shooting out and connecting with him at close range. He didn't stop the fastest punch from executing successfully; he stopped the punch from landing successfully.
> 
> Had he been unable to respond to 7th gated Gai - like so many suggest - this wouldn't have occurred.
> 
> People mistake a surprised expression and evading as being pressured without properly examining the context in which this all transpired.



He could respond to him. But by what margin is Hirudora faster than any other 7 Gate punch? If it is faster by a little margin, than there is nothing bad about Juubidara blocking Hirudora. It's like in a kickboxing match. You can check a lowkick without being able to counter-attack your opponent and after that lowkick, a faster highkick comes. You check the highkick too, although with more difficulty.

Also, Juubidara couldnt allow Gai to make so many moves because of initial surprise. If Juubidara could, he would have cut down Gai because there was no sense for him to not do so. I mean, realy. He cut down SM Minato, a Hokage, yet wont cut down Gai, whom, by the way, he tried to kill right after Hirudora? And dont you think that a feat of surprising Juubidara by his movement speed is a feat already out of Minato's league?



> Again, in spite of the context heavily suggesting otherwise.



Not realy. 



> So yeah we're ignoring he'd naturally take a more aggressive approach as Minato, Kakashi, & Gaara were cockblocking him from his Rinnegan and the final biju - his two most prized assets.
> 
> I'm not saying 7th Gated Gai isn't faster than a slightly nerfed SM Minato, but let's not act like Madara could do nothing but jump back. The man reacted to EE's initial step twice for Christ sake.[1][2]



By what margin is EE's first step faster than Hirudora? 

And in a second scan, there was a great distance between Juubidara and 8 Gate Gai. 7 Gate Gai was in a close distance with him.


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## Icegaze (Jul 29, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> And if he teleports with his clone to Juubidara as close as he did in canon, he gets chopped into pieces alongside his clone.
> 
> 
> 
> The air pressure was released, thus Hirudora has been made, hence why Juubidara couldnt cut his arms in order to prevent Hirudora and hence why we see released air in that panel. Juubidara nerfed Hirudora's effect.



u still didnt answer if gai would perform the same way with 1 hand though

also the clone is a distraction so while juudara is swatting the clone his back is well open

first step of 8th gate>>>>>>>>hirudora on account of the difference in power between the attacks. the punch being super fast is what causes the air canon btw

hirudora punch is slower hence why it was alot easier to juudara to block


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## StarWanderer (Jul 29, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> u still didnt answer if gai would perform the same way with 1 hand though
> 
> also the clone is a distraction so while juudara is swatting the clone his back is well open



It doesnt matter how well Gai would have performed with 1 arm, especially when he is, unlike Minato, a pure taijutsu user, with nothing else except few summons. 

SM Minato got his arm chopped off, kicked away and got himself kicked out of the range, without being able to react *at all*. Minato and his clone get close - Juubidara swings with his staff and cut them down both, or swings Minato himself, and then kickes out the clone. It has been shown clearly that he is in a completely different speed level, high enough to hit Minato several times before he can teleport away.

And by the way, Juubidara, thanks to his Rinnegan aye and Sage sensing, cant be fooled by clones.


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## StarWanderer (Jul 29, 2015)

> first step of 8th gate>>>>>>>>hirudora on account of the difference in power between the attacks. the punch being super fast is what causes the air canon btw
> 
> hirudora punch is slower hence why it was alot easier to juudara to block



Air pressure released - Hirudora. It is not a punch in a common sense - released air pressure hits Gai's opponent like some kind of a physical punch. 

The difference in power =/= difference in speed. I mean, EE's first step is faster, sure. It is a fact after seeing how difficult it was for Juubidara to block it. But by what margin? EE's first step is the *slowest* step.

Also, i wonder why Juubidara couldnt cut down Gai's arms after he made a seal of Hirudora. Maybe because Hirudora already hit him, sending him flying away, and he just nerfed its affect with his staff?


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## ChaddyMan1 (Jul 29, 2015)

Again,to reiterate, JJ Madara split the air that comes forward from the punch, he didn't the stop punch, but the air that goes forward from the punch. The air cannon is just a side effect of throwing the punch.


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## Icegaze (Jul 29, 2015)

the air is a result of the punch..unless the fist hits u directly stopping the air canon is stopping the punch

common sense


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## ChaddyMan1 (Jul 29, 2015)

^
Except Madara didn't stop his fist, the fist never hits the opponent directly when Hirodura is used anyway. The air pressure came out from the punch and Madara split the air pressure right down the middle with his staff, neither Madara's staff or hand stopped Gai's fist. The punch was thrown but Madara split the air pressure causing it to detonate early, that's why Gai and Madara were blown hundreds feet away from each other.


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## Icegaze (Jul 29, 2015)

8th gate can be used directly or just the canon itself. why would 7th gate be different?

6th can be used directly cqc or the fire from gai fist can hit u from afar 

 I dnt know how to use little words to explain it to you. the air canon is a result of the punch not a by product, punch thrown at that exact moment air pressure built up moves with it 

its not punch,....wait a few seconds, air canon comes shooting out 

hirudora can be used directly same way MP and EE can be used directly. 

both MP and EE have been shown to make direct contact against the enemy and have shown the attack packs more power when hit directly by gai fist 

now why didn't gai hit juudara directly with his fist? to keep a safe distance, since he cant risk getting hit by the black rods


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## StarWanderer (Jul 29, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> the air is a result of the punch..unless the fist hits u directly stopping the air canon is stopping the punch
> 
> common sense



Juubidara couldnt cut down Gai after he made a sign of Hirudora. Cut down Minato, yet couldnt do the same to Gai. From the image, it looks like it hit Juubidara, but he managed to swing his staff in order to reduce the effect of Hirudora. The Hirudora "jaw teeth" were way behind Juubidara. And he was bouncing away due to a hit already - take a look at the image of his.


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## ChaddyMan1 (Jul 29, 2015)

*@ Icegaze*

Then let me use little words for you since you are unable to understand simple English.

The wind itself is not the punch. Only a fist can create a punch, as only a leg can create a kick. The wind is a result of a punch, the wind comes from the punch. Only when he throws the fastest in punch in the 7th Gate is Hirudora created. Gai's fist was not struck when he threw the punch, but the air that came forward as a result of the punch.


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## Icegaze (Jul 29, 2015)

still fairly new poster I understand now


juudara staff doesn't extend so no way he could actually hit gai hand. gai wasn't in range of the staff, because he used hirudora out of juudara reach 

the air canon cannot be slower than the punch, since that's what u implying and comically so 

why is hirudora air canon slower than the punch but in 8th gate somehow it isn't?


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## ChaddyMan1 (Jul 29, 2015)

^
I'm not saying he struck his hand, I'm saying the air pressure was divided by Madara's staff, the dividing caused it to detonate early, which caused Madara and Gai to be blown hundreds of feet away in the opposite directions of each other.

I mean holy shit, Madara got knocked into the sky and had to fly back.


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## StarWanderer (Jul 29, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> still fairly new poster I understand now
> 
> 
> juudara staff doesn't extend so no way he could actually hit gai hand. gai wasn't in range of the staff, because he used hirudora out of juudara reach
> ...



He was in a distance close enough to cut down Gai, but he havent cut him down. 

Take a look at this:



Now take a look at this: 



Not only he couldnt react to Hirudora's sign, which is "the fastest punch" itself - he could react to Hirudora's sign side effects (air in a form of tiger) only after he was hit by it, since he was already flying away from defused air when he waved his staff.

Even in an explanation, it is said that the fastest punch itself concentrates the air pressure:



Hence, Gai stands still when Tiger Air is coming, Gai makes the fastest punch and after that, comes it's side effect - defused air.


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## Zef (Jul 29, 2015)

7 pages....

7th Gate Gai, to my knowledge is both stronger (and faster?) then A. Gai at least has the feat of keeping up with the likes of Obito & Madara who would have without a doubt decimated the Raikage.


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## ChaddyMan1 (Jul 30, 2015)

^
Well a weaker version of Madara did KO him, so I agree.


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## Icegaze (Jul 30, 2015)

odd said weaker version fought 7th gate gai and gai didnt do anything to him while gai had back up


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## StarWanderer (Jul 30, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> odd said weaker version fought 7th gate gai and gai didnt do anything to him while gai had back up



It doesnt matter that 7 Gate Gai couldnt do anything to Juubidara. What does matter in this debate is the fact that Gai knocks Ei out cold by Hirudora to the chin.


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## Kyu (Jul 30, 2015)

I'll reply in depth later if need be. Just got off work.




StarWanderer said:


> He could respond to him. But by what margin is Hirudora faster than any other 7 Gate punch? If it is faster by a little margin, than there is nothing bad about Juubidara blocking Hirudora. It's like in a kickboxing match. You can check a lowkick without being able to counter-attack your opponent and after that lowkick, a faster highkick comes. You check the highkick too, although with more difficulty.



Gai shoots out Hirudora -> Madara intercepts from conversation distance (a further distance than where Gai ran towards him) before it hit him -> lays Gai out




> Also, Juubidara couldnt allow Gai to make so many moves because of initial surprise. If Juubidara could, he would have cut down Gai because there was no sense for him to not do so. I mean, realy. He cut down SM Minato, a Hokage, yet wont cut down Gai, whom, by the way, he tried to kill right after Hirudora?



Truth-Seekers will defend Madara if his opponent is moving too fast for him to keep up on his own as shown thereafter. Team Minato had to remove them from the equation so that _8th Gated Gai_ could have a feasible chance of landing a decisive blow. 



> And dont you think that a feat of surprising Juubidara by his movement speed is a feat already out of Minato's league?



Minato's feat relied strictly on teleportation until he was at his destination, furthermore I already stated 7th Gated Gai's speed is > a slightly nerfed (edo) SM Minato's movement speed.



> By what margin is EE's first step faster than Hirudora?



By virtue of Eighth Gate's speed shitting on its previous state by an astronomical margin as a whole.



> And in a second scan, there was a great distance between Juubidara and 8 Gate Gai. 7 Gate Gai was in a close distance with him.



And in the first scan Madara blocked EE's 1st step, albeit with great difficulty.

So let me get this straight - Madara can do nothing but evade 7th Gate (despite oneshotting Gai a moment later at a closer distance than when he charged) yet he responds to 8th gate on more than one occasion - let's forget his Truth-Seekers would come to his aid if Gai's speed actually became a problem.


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## Mercurial (Jul 31, 2015)

How is this still going around? Gai just pastes Ei, he is on a completely different level than the Raikage, by both feats and portrayal.

Gai rapes Ei with 6th or 7th Gate. Base Gai was able to not let Rinnegan Obito (who was defeating KCM Naruto) lay a single finger on him in CQC, lower Gates Gai was able to outpace a Gudodama, 6th Gate Gai blitzed Kisame and couterblitzed some Sharingan and Rinnegan enhanced V2 Bijuu together with Sharingan Kakashi, 7th Gate Gai pressured Juudara far more than SM Minato did (with a far slower Edo Madara being able to casually react and block Ei's fastest speed while being already busy to dodge Mei Terumi's Yoton ninjutsu; Gaara, who witnessed Ei's max speed and even Ei's max speed lightned by Onoki, called Gai's movements "not human"). The Green Beast is faster, stronger, with better reflexes and far more taijutsu skills, and has powerful ougi like Asa Kujaku and especially Hiru Tora that Ei can't defend from.

Gai is also portrayed as far stronger as one of the key players in the War Arc and the Eternal Rival of a shinobi of Kakashi's caliber and relevance, Ei is just one of the Gokage. Worn out Gai smashed away Edo Madara destroying his V3 Susanoo with Hiru Tora, while Ei needed Onoki to power himself and Tsunade to combo with him to destroy Madara's V1 Susanoo.


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## StarWanderer (Jul 31, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> How is this still going around? Gai just pastes Ei, he is on a completely different level than the Raikage, by both feats and portrayal.
> 
> Gai rapes Ei with 6th or 7th Gate. Base Gai was able to not let Rinnegan Obito (who was defeating KCM Naruto) lay a single finger on him in CQC, lower Gates Gai was able to outpace a Gudodama, 6th Gate Gai blitzed Kisame and couterblitzed some Sharingan and Rinnegan enhanced V2 Bijuu together with Sharingan Kakashi, 7th Gate Gai pressured Juudara far more than SM Minato did (with a far slower Edo Madara being able to casually react and block Ei's fastest speed while being already busy to dodge Mei Terumi's Yoton ninjutsu; Gaara, who witnessed Ei's max speed and even Ei's max speed lightned by Onoki, called Gai's movements "not human"). The Green Beast is faster, stronger, with better reflexes and far more taijutsu skills, and has powerful ougi like Asa Kujaku and especially Hiru Tora that Ei can't defend from.
> 
> Gai is also portrayed as far stronger as one of the key players in the War Arc and the Eternal Rival of a shinobi of Kakashi's caliber and relevance, Ei is just one of the Gokage. Worn out Gai smashed away Edo Madara destroying his V3 Susanoo with Hiru Tora, while Ei needed Onoki to power himself and Tsunade to combo with him to destroy Madara's V1 Susanoo.


*
Guess what - there is a statement in manga that Ei was the fastest now when Minato is dead. So he is faster than Gai no matter what Gates he uses. Pain is invincible, because there is a statement in manga. Hiruzen is stronger than Hashirama. Because there is a statement in manga. *

*Such a nice logic, dont you think? And used by so many people. Guess what - Pain is invincible, because in manga, Obito said so. Pain can defeat Kaguya, Rikudou Naruto, Rikudou Sasuke and SoSP at the same time. He is INVINCIBLE, after all.* 

*Oh, i forgot, and the main one - are you ready for that - ITACHI! He is INVINCIBLE because in the manga Zetsu said so!*


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## ~M~ (Jul 31, 2015)

I've never seen something so one sided go on so long it's clear Gai wins, being described as fastest alive (probably using everyone at base when here Gai is 7th gate) doesn't mean much when he can't crack Susanoo like Gai, and granting the benefit of the doubt, speed is undermined by Gai's vastly superior and unmatched mastery of taijutsu: he can grab and counter.


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