# Joyboy vs. Kaido



## Shanks (Mar 11, 2022)

So we all know OL loves to speculate and argue prematurely.

Joyboy vs Kaido
Both 100% fresh 



How does this go? The Joy boy of chapter 1044 btw.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## convict (Mar 11, 2022)

Kaido wins 100% fresh.

Luffy in full Joyboy/awakening mode is Kaido level but he likely can't sustain it for long.

After all Kaido has done, his upcoming continued gauntlet against major players, and not even showing awakening yet, I hope to God the OL doesn't prematurely start overhyping Luffy like crazy as always.

Which is something that has happened since after Udon when he first punched Kaido. And then when he first learned Advanced CoC (the hype of which somehow immediately died as soon as Zoro learned it). And then when he split the skies.

Yeah not going to hold my breath on that one.

Reactions: Like 4 | Funny 6 | Winner 1


----------



## Kroczilla (Mar 11, 2022)

We literally have no idea.

Reactions: Agree 5 | Winner 1


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 11, 2022)

Mid diff sounds about right if JB/Imu is a tier above PK tier

Reactions: Like 4


----------



## Shanks (Mar 11, 2022)

Kroczilla said:


> We literally have no idea.


Fence sitter

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 2


----------



## o0Shinthi0o (Mar 11, 2022)

100% fresh JoyBoY vs 100% Kaido is a mid diff win or less for JB Luffy . ( Assuming CP0 guy does not help Kaido   )

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Strobacaxi (Mar 11, 2022)

Kaido

Joyboy won't last long and it can't take Kaido down that quickly


----------



## Shanks (Mar 11, 2022)

Imagine Joyboy Luffy float Onigashima with his awakening to stop the landing and then proceed to 1-shot Kaido

Reactions: GODA 1


----------



## o0Shinthi0o (Mar 11, 2022)

@convict  , I know being a Kaido+Zoro fan & Luffy hater  , u r upset that Luffy is becoming a god now but giving me tier specialist wount change anything . I know it's tough but hang in there my frnd

Reactions: Funny 4 | Friendly 2


----------



## convict (Mar 11, 2022)

o0Shinthi0o said:


> @convict  , I know being a Kaido+Zoro fan & Luffy hater  , u r upset that Luffy is becoming a god now but giving me tier specialist wount change anything . I know it's tough but hang in there my frnd



I don't know why you people get upset at these ratings I farm them from the usual suspects by the boatload, and plan to keep doing so as particularly in regards to topics of Luffy I inevitably end up right despite accruing a warchest of tier specialists and that gives me great satisfaction.

There I removed it for you.

Reactions: Winner 2 | Friendly 4 | Tier Specialist 1


----------



## MeUnderstandODA (Mar 11, 2022)

Kaido will one shot Joyboy and then say "You weren't Joyboy either"

Reactions: Funny 16


----------



## Mariko (Mar 11, 2022)

Joy diff. Aka lol diff.

Joyboy ain't joke. 

Wait...

Reactions: GODA 1


----------



## Shanks (Mar 11, 2022)

Yo @Mihawk this is JoyBoy btw, not your favourite character Luffy. Vote fairly, K.

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## MrPopo (Mar 11, 2022)

Joyboy is going to blueno Kaido big mom sisters we won

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 7


----------



## convict (Mar 11, 2022)

Shanks said:


> Yo @Mihawk this is JoyBoy btw, not your favourite character Luffy. Vote fairly, K.



I'm confused is this the ancient Joyboy. Hypothetical Luffy always in Joyboy mode. Or Current awakened Luffy who is in fact Joyboy but likely with stamina limits?


----------



## Shanks (Mar 11, 2022)

convict said:


> I'm confused is this the ancient Joyboy. Hypothetical Luffy always in Joyboy mode. Or Current awakened Luffy who is in fact Joyboy but likely with stamina limits?


The person that will rape Kaido sideways next chapter

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## CaptainCommanderRenji (Mar 11, 2022)

Joyboy takes this mid or maybe even low. Luffy already proved he can goe toe to toe with Kaido. There's no need to drag this anymore. Joyboy will be on a completely different level.


----------



## convict (Mar 11, 2022)

Shanks said:


> The person that will rape Kaido sideways next chapter





CaptainCommanderRenji said:


> Joyboy takes this mid or maybe even low. Luffy already proved he can goe toe to toe with Kaido. There's no need to drag this anymore. Joyboy will be on a completely different level.



Ok then just as I thought.

Will save this thread for future gloating and move on I guess

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 1


----------



## Ezekjuninor (Mar 11, 2022)

I think Joyboy Luffy will be even stronger than Roger/WB so probably low end high diff. I don’t think Oda would show Kaido getting low diff’d after everything he’s done.


----------



## Mihawk (Mar 11, 2022)

Dude. I have a feeling he will spank Kaido for a bit while “possessed”.  

It will be done to make him look more impressive and be kinda like when G4 Luffy was overwhelming Doffy. Or like when Hollow Ichigo V3 was raping Ulquiorra.

Something like that...

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


----------



## T.D.A (Mar 11, 2022)

Kaido > Joyboy

Joyboy + Luffy will be needed to defeated a weakened Kaido

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2 | Winner 2


----------



## Corax (Mar 11, 2022)

100% functional Joy Boy?He should win around mid. Luffy pre partial awakening was close to Kaido. 100% mastered Joy Boy should be massively above.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


----------



## Dark Knight (Mar 11, 2022)

Void century Joyboy or Luffy Joyboy? The former beats Kaido's ass low diff the later mid diff.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 2


----------



## Shanks (Mar 11, 2022)

Dark Knight said:


> Void century Joyboy or Luffy Joyboy? The former beats Kaido's ass low diff the later mid diff.


Edited OP for clarity btw.

And yes, I agree. I don't think Luffy/Joyboy in the next chapter will be Prime Joyboy.


----------



## bil02 (Mar 11, 2022)

How do we know Joyboy is even strong?

For all we know,he may have powers that give people courage/heal them to 100% to fit the "drums of liberation" theme.

Joyboy is the key to the one piece,he may or may not be strength related.


----------



## Joe Maiafication (Mar 11, 2022)

Joyboy stomp on Kaido like it's nothing.


----------



## Shanks (Mar 11, 2022)

bil02 said:


> How do we know Joyboy is even strong?
> 
> For all we know,he may have powers that give people courage/heal them to 100% to fit the "drums of liberation" theme.
> 
> Joyboy is the key to the one piece,he may or may not be strength related.


Are you part of the Imu and Dragon might just be a desk junky crew? 

Dude was the leader that fought the final villian of this series 800 years ago.

Imu is shitting his pants and gives no fuck about letting Kaido lose to ensure a bigger threat gets taken care of ASAP.


----------



## bil02 (Mar 11, 2022)

Shanks said:


> Are you part of the Imu and Dragon might just be a desk junky crew?
> 
> Dude was the leader that fought the final villian of this series 800 years ago.
> 
> Imu is shitting his pants and gives no fuck about letting Kaido lose to ensure a bigger threat gets taken care of ASAP.


None of that is confirmed.

If Oda goes the normal shounen route,it will happen 100% but for now I'm quite sceptical.


----------



## Corax (Mar 11, 2022)

bil02 said:


> How do we know Joyboy is even strong?
> 
> For all we know,he may have powers that give people courage/heal them to 100% to fit the "drums of liberation" theme.
> 
> Joyboy is the key to the one piece,he may or may not be strength related.


He has to be strong,since he was an opponent of the final villain or his organization in legendary times. Even Gorosei were scared of his potential awakening.


----------



## Ludi (Mar 11, 2022)

JoyBoy > KoiBoy

Reactions: Like 4


----------



## Duhul10 (Mar 11, 2022)

Fresh Kaido? Kaido wins if there is a time limit to joyboy. Otherwise? We'll actually have to see what joyboy can do


----------



## Lord Melkor (Mar 11, 2022)

Depends if Kaidou has Awakening form/ powerup. If so, it should be high difficulty. If not, low or medium, Kaidou was stated to be worn as well.


----------



## SomnusUltima (Mar 11, 2022)

hype wise Joyboy>kaido wb roger...


----------



## Chip Skylark (Mar 11, 2022)

Why would Kaido aspire to become Joy Boy himself if the resulting power up was no stronger than he was at 100%

Reactions: Winner 3


----------



## Nic (Mar 11, 2022)

This is literally yusuke vs sensui all over again. Following that route, joy boy wins low diff.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Duhul10 (Mar 11, 2022)

Chip Skylark said:


> Why would Kaido aspire to become Joy Boy himself if the resulting power up was no stronger than he was at 100%


Joyboy's power might consist of him calling other beings such as zunisha via his drum to fight for him. It's either that, individual power, or both.


----------



## Chip Skylark (Mar 11, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> Joyboy's power might consist of him calling other beings such as zunisha via his drum to fight for him. It's either that, individual power, or both.


Momo was already able to call on Zunisha to fight, and Zunisha himself was waiting on Joy Boy.

Joy Boy should naturally be able to contribute a lot more than what others could already provide. Probably more individual power than anything.

That’s the only thing Luffy lacks right now

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Mar 11, 2022)

Mid dif, factoring in Kaido's awakening.

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Van Basten (Mar 11, 2022)

Kaido is far from fresh so even low diff wouldn’t be that big of a deal. It’s not the same as Vasto Lorde Ichigo tearing apart Ulquiorra.


----------



## The crazy hacker (Mar 11, 2022)

Van Basten said:


> Kaido is far from fresh so even low diff wouldn’t be that big of a deal. It’s not the same as Vasto Lorde Ichigo tearing apart Ulquiorra.


No low diff would be a big deal. Low diff is a big difference.

I hope Joyboy high diffs him. If he low diffs him that would make Kaido look weak compared to BB.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 2


----------



## Ludi (Mar 11, 2022)

The crazy hacker said:


> No low diff would be a big deal. Low diff is a big difference.
> 
> I hope Joyboy high diffs him. If he low diffs him that would make Kaido look weak compared to BB.


I see no problems here

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## The crazy hacker (Mar 11, 2022)

Ludi said:


> I see no problems here


If Joy boy low diffs Kaido how much stronger do you think BB is going to be. Its bad considering how much oda hyped up Kaido as being so strong.


----------



## Ludi (Mar 11, 2022)

The crazy hacker said:


> If Joy boy low diffs Kaido how much stronger do you think BB is going to be. Its bad considering how much oda hyped up Kaido as being so strong.


Again, I see no problems really, though I don't think it will go this far directly with the first showing of JoyBoy Luffy probably. It depends if and how Luffy improve from here and if all power up is easily accessible etc.

Peak BB will probably not need high diff for Kaido anyway.


----------



## Hdw (Mar 11, 2022)

Mid diff or so i hope, if Kaido gets fodderized by a noob Jboy-Luffy that pretty much confirms the notion of Imu being some beyond broken god tier dude that can solo most of the verse with ease

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Luffyfan38 (Mar 11, 2022)

JoyBoy has been hyped up for a while to be defeated after all that 

Luffy ( JoyBoy) Is going for the win.



Hdw said:


> Mid diff or so i hope, if Kaido gets fodderized by a noob Jboy-Luffy that pretty much confirms the notion of Imu being some beyond broken god tier dude that can solo most of the verse with ease


Oda has to hype up the final villain.


----------



## Van Basten (Mar 11, 2022)

The crazy hacker said:


> No low diff would be a big deal. Low diff is a big difference.
> 
> I hope Joyboy high diffs him. If he low diffs him that would make Kaido look weak compared to BB.


Nah. Kaido is at like 20% health and fought off like 16 different people.


----------



## Corax (Mar 11, 2022)

Van Basten said:


> Nah. Kaido is at like 20% health and fought off like 16 different people.


Yeah but will Joy Boy be at 100%?Unless he can magically heal of course. Luffy was dead before awakening.


----------



## trance (Mar 11, 2022)

remember how goku went SSJ and manhandled freeza even after freeza went all out? though i don't it will be quite _that _onesided, i think joyboyluffy will cleanly have the upper hand

so around mid diff

Reactions: Winner 1 | Useful 1


----------



## Van Basten (Mar 11, 2022)

Corax said:


> Yeah but will Joy Boy be at 100%?Unless he can magically heal of course. Luffy was dead before awakening.


Yes, it’s likely JB will be at 100%. Just like Demon Yusuke. “Magic” healing will probably be at play.


----------



## IHateAnnoyingJerks (Mar 11, 2022)

Awakened Luffy might stomp tired Kaido like how G4 Luffy stomp Doflamingo, he already fought on par with Kaido without awakening.


----------



## Fujitora (Mar 11, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Mid diff sounds about right if JB/Imu is a tier above PK tier


PK tier doesn't exist.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 11, 2022)

~Flow~ said:


> PK tier doesn't exist.


it does and its above Kaidou

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 2


----------



## Fujitora (Mar 11, 2022)

Ludi said:


> Again, I see no problems really, though I don't think it will go this far directly with the first showing of JoyBoy Luffy probably. It depends if and how Luffy improve from here and if all power up is easily accessible etc.
> 
> Peak BB will probably not need high diff for Kaido anyway.


You the same dude who was shitting on Kaido last chapter before the summary came out and then you dipped from the thread. Cant wait to see you proven wrong, again.

You seem to enjoy taking Ls after all.



Shiba D. Inu said:


> it does and its above Kaidou


Healthy WB whom Ace just joined was wary of going to avenge Oden, so nah. WB is stronger than Kaido and the top of top tiers atm ( like Akainu,etc) but not by much.

That is if you actually read the manga of course.

Bookmarking the takes here for future use  



Corax said:


> 100% functional Joy Boy?He should win around mid. Luffy pre partial awakening was close to Kaido. 100% mastered Joy Boy should be massively above.


Source: My headcanon.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Heart Over Blade (Mar 11, 2022)

Kaidou was about even with G4 Boundman Luffy, or barely edging it. Oda could've portrayed him outright beating Luffy solo to prove he's outright superior but what happened was Kaidou ended up winning with outside help to land a finisher. Current Luffy is in an even worse shape than him and will  still end up beating him. Unless Kaidou has an unrevealed awakening Joyboy Luffy would ragdoll him, for however long Joyboy mode lasts.


----------



## convict (Mar 11, 2022)

Heart Over Blade said:


> *Kaidou was about even with G4 Boundman Luffy*, or barely edging it. Oda could've portrayed him outright beating Luffy solo to prove he's outright superior but what happened was Kaidou ended up winning with outside help to land a finisher. Current Luffy is in an even worse shape than him and will  still end up beating him. Unless Kaidou has an unrevealed awakening Joyboy Luffy would ragdoll him, for however long Joyboy mode lasts.



That is what people were saying about Kaido and base Luffy. And that G4 Luffy would ragdoll him but guess what happened?

Luffy overestimation never stops and people never learn their lession.

Oda will NEVER have Kaido be ragdolled by anyone. He has too much respect for his power. If he starts getting overwhelmed he will bust out awakening to even the fight.


----------



## NeckAssBoi (Mar 11, 2022)

Mid diff. This is the man that made the WG rewrite history.


----------



## Heart Over Blade (Mar 11, 2022)

convict said:


> That is what people were saying about Kaido and base Luffy. And that G4 Luffy would ragdoll him but guess what happened?
> 
> Luffy overestimation never stops and people never learn their lession.





convict said:


> Oda will NEVER have Kaido be ragdolled by anyone. He has too much respect for his power. If he starts getting overwhelmed he will bust out awakening to even the fight.




Kaidou only kept up with G4 because he held back against base Luffy. Who's to say for sure Kaidou's still holding back when there is no indication of that? That he got outside help to put down G4 Luffy doesn't bode well for his chances against Awakened Luffy. Oda could've had him beat Luffy by himself if he was so superior. Yet, he didn't. If Kaidou needs Awakening to keep up with this new Luffy then you're proving my point that Kaidou with his current feats would get whooped by Joyboy Luffy. Whether Luffy can sustain the mode is another matter entirely. Awakened Luffy ragdolling unawakened Kaidou isn't any more out of the question than G4 Luffy ragdolling Doflamingo, who still pushed Luffy to extreme thanks to G4's time limit. 


The lesson you seem to be forgetting is MC always wins against the arc boss, especially when the plot requires it, and the next time they fight it will be even closer to the end of this war.


----------



## Shanks (Mar 11, 2022)

Based Luffy evenly matched with Hybrid Kaido.

Drunken Kaido above based Luffy.

G4 Luffy got the edge against drunken Kaido.

Then Drunken FS Kaido evenly match with G4 Luffy.

Not really hard to understand the manga. Only thing we can argue for Kaido is his health and endurance. Though Luffy is up there also.

And yes, if JOYBOY doesn't overwhelm Kaido, I will be disappointed.


----------



## Yamato (Mar 11, 2022)

This will be interesting


----------



## Amol (Mar 11, 2022)

I have no idea whatsoever.
I have no idea what exactly is happening.

Has Luffy just awakened his DF?
Has Luffy been possessed by Joyboy?
Was Luffy always Joyboy and he just remembers his past?

There are so much lack of information on this topic that one can't even guess.

So yeah I am just gonna wait and see what Oda does in next chapter.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


----------



## Heart Over Blade (Mar 12, 2022)

If we're talking prime Joyboy from Void Century, he should take this no higher than mid diff. Both King and Kaidou have hyped him up to be the strongest. Kaidou implied Luffy shouldn't have lost if he was Joyboy. The power to liberate and change the world is beyond even PK levels like Roger/Whitebeard. The Gorosei considered Joyboy's awakening to be clearly the greater threat compared to Kaidou. Meaning there's a clear gap between their threat level from the standpoint of those leading the WG. The mission for Cp0 was to eliminate Luffy so that his fruit doesn't awaken, not eliminate either one of the two. Newly awakened Joyboy who hasn't mastered his awakening is about to beat Kaidou, despite being in a near death state moments ago.  So it's obvious Joyboy at his prime AKA EoS Luffy should be significantly stronger than now after 2 or more arcs of growth. I doubt he has significant healing powers. It would take so much tension out of the later battles if he had regeneration on that level in addition to being a PK+ threat.

Imu/Joyboy>Primbeard/Roger/Xebec/Garp>Old healthy WB>Kaidou.

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (Mar 12, 2022)

Prime Joy Boy I’d say high diff. Kaido isn’t a scrub to anyone in the world and anyone that has ever lived. Strength and violence are his specialties.

Nobody would breeze through him. After Wano it’s gonna be a game of inches.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Ludi (Mar 12, 2022)

~Flow~ said:


> You the same dude who was shitting on Kaido last chapter before the summary came out and then you dipped from the thread. Cant wait to see you proven wrong, again.


Let me get this clear, you do think current Kaido (showings up till now) can push the strongest iteration of teach in the manga eventually to high diff or above?

Because that's the only thing I'm shitting on really. People who think current BM or current Kaido would push EoS/peak power characters to high or even extreme diff.

Overestimation of the current villain with respect to the powercreep happens each time with an arc villain to the point I don't understand why it keeps happening.. every time I hear "this time it's different". 

Anyway,

I always ranked Kaido above Luffy so far, I say just that Luffy, eventually with his final Wano Powerup, would beat Kaido and that fresh peak Wano Luffy would beat fresh Kaido or at least push him to extreme diff either way most likely too. It's kinda sad a third party was introduced by Oda such that the latest victory of Kaido even felt rather disappointing and not fair, again like Vs Oden. On that part of Kaidos victories I'd also shit talk, as I don't like such writing and it affects my view on Kaido as a fighter versus the strongest top tiers, like Oden and Current Luffy.


----------



## BDL (Mar 12, 2022)

I think it would be like Namek SSJ Goku vs Frieza.


----------



## Fujitora (Mar 12, 2022)

Ludi said:


> Let me get this clear, you do think current Kaido (showings up till now) can push the strongest iteration of teach in the manga eventually to high diff or above?
> 
> Because that's the only thing I'm shitting on really. People who think current BM or current Kaido would push EoS/peak power characters to high or even extreme diff.
> 
> ...


I think fresh Kaido will push Prime teach to high diff yes. Think all top tiers can.


----------



## God sl4yer (Mar 12, 2022)

Its obvious that joyboy in the next chapter wont be in his prime, and we are considering  a fresh kaido here, so i dont think non-prime Joyboy low or mid diffs fresh kaido. Its atleast a high diff for joyboy.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## God sl4yer (Mar 12, 2022)

Amol said:


> I have no idea whatsoever.
> I have no idea what exactly is happening.
> 
> Has Luffy just awakened his DF?
> ...


luffy was always joyboy ,but he only starts to remember his past once his devil fruit awakens and then he awakens as joyboy . Thats my guess.


----------



## RayanOO (Mar 12, 2022)

I didn’t real it was both fresh 

Yeah it’s a high diff and nothing less. Kaido is a monster 

But I think joyjoy will mid diff current Kaido

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Canute87 (Mar 12, 2022)

Shanks said:


> So we all know OL loves to speculate and argue prematurely.
> 
> Joyboy vs Kaido
> Both 100% fresh
> ...



This is going to be  like mazokuvs sensui.


----------



## Dellinger (Mar 13, 2022)

Chip Skylark said:


> Why would Kaido aspire to become Joy Boy himself if the resulting power up was no stronger than he was at 100%


Kaido didnt aspire to become Joy Boy because of some power up. Joy Boy is a symbol, the one who will change the world.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## TheWiggian (Mar 13, 2022)

Chip Skylark said:


> Why would Kaido aspire to become Joy Boy himself if the resulting power up was no stronger than he was at 100%



Kaido couldn't be Joyboy, he said so himself. So whatever it's going to be is outside his potential/grasp.


----------



## Chip Skylark (Mar 13, 2022)

Dellinger said:


> Kaido didnt aspire to become Joy Boy because of some power up. Joy Boy is a symbol, the one who will change the world.


If he could do that without the power boost then becoming Joy Boy would’ve been redundant. The lore must’ve come with something he didn’t already have outside of a title, and the only benefit presently seems to be power.


----------



## Dellinger (Mar 13, 2022)

Chip Skylark said:


> If he could do that without the power boost then becoming Joy Boy would’ve been redundant. The lore must’ve come with something he didn’t already have outside of a title, and the only benefit presently seems to be power.


Does Kaido seem like a Joy Boy to you ? Kaido also already said hes going on a different path than he anticipated. Its not about strength


----------



## Chip Skylark (Mar 13, 2022)

Dellinger said:


> Does Kaido seem like a Joy Boy to you ? Kaido also already said hes going on a different path than he anticipated. Its not about strength


? My point is Kaido aspired to become Joy Boy as a means to an end. Being Joy Boy would’ve helped him achieve his goals. If it were strictly symbolic there would’ve been no point in it for him since he could achieve his goals without being Joy Boy. Little reason he’d simply want a title that most people in the series don’t even recognize.


----------



## Dellinger (Mar 13, 2022)

Chip Skylark said:


> ? My point is Kaido aspired to become Joy Boy as a means to an end. Being Joy Boy would’ve helped him achieve his goals. If it were strictly symbolic there would’ve been no point in it for him since he could achieve his goals without being Joy Boy. Little reason he’d simply want a title that most people in the series don’t even recognize.


Yes but Joy Boy has never been about strength until now. King who supposedly knows something never spoke about strength since he had already said that Kaido is the strongest. Kaido outright says that he took a different route compared to that legend

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Eustathios (Mar 13, 2022)

Joyboy wrecks him

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## convict (Mar 13, 2022)

@Amol what are your thoughts on the fact that over 60% of people think current Luffy will now low or mid diff fresh Kaido?

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## MrPopo (Mar 13, 2022)

convict said:


> @Amol what are your thoughts on the fact that over 60% of people think Luffy is about to low or mid diff Kaido in their next bout?


It should be 100%


----------



## God sl4yer (Mar 13, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> Joyboy wrecks him


This is not prime joyboy and kaido is fully fresh so joyboy wins with high diff at least.


----------



## convict (Mar 13, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> It should be 100%



Nobody was asking you

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## God sl4yer (Mar 13, 2022)

Even prime joboy isnt winning against fresh kaido with low diff.


----------



## MrPopo (Mar 13, 2022)

convict said:


> Nobody was asking you

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Amol (Mar 13, 2022)

convict said:


> @Amol what are your thoughts on the fact that over 60% of people think current Luffy will now low or mid diff fresh Kaido?


Am I keeper of other people?

You know what my position is.
I don't know enough about Joyboy to give opinion on this fight.

I "assume" that Joyboy was just a guy. Slaves turned him into a God down the long history but he was just a guy. I don't think he was some God who can low diff Yonkou or Admiral left or right. I mean he lost war against WG Void Century after all.

At the moment I just see him another PK level character. Might be the strongest PK level character but on that general level nonetheless.


----------



## convict (Mar 13, 2022)

Amol said:


> Am I keeper of other people?
> 
> You know what my position is.
> I don't know enough about Joyboy to give opinion on this fight.
> ...



No you don't have to be the keeper of the people to answer a simple question. I just wanted your opinion

So you agree people are overrating the hell out of Luffy right now and are being extremely premature by saying he low/mid diffs Kaido? Because the question isn't even ancient joyboy. It is current Luffy. We don't know how strong those joyboy powers are right now. Whether they need to be trained to reach peak potential How long he can sustain it. And this is a fresh Kaido the world's strongest who never fought a gauntlet before the fight would even ancient Joyboy low to mid diff him?


----------



## Amol (Mar 13, 2022)

convict said:


> No you don't have to be the keeper of the people to answer a simple question. I just wanted your opinion
> 
> So you agree people are overrating the hell out of Luffy right now and are being extremely premature by saying he low/mid diffs Kaido? Because the question isn't even ancient joyboy. It is current Luffy. We don't know how strong those joyboy powers are right now. Whether they need to be trained to reach peak potential How long he can sustain it. And this is a fresh Kaido the world's strongest who never fought a gauntlet before the fight would even ancient Joyboy low to mid diff him?


People think Joyboy is actually God level unlike my personal interpretation of him being  just another PK level character.

If you think Joyboy is actually God  character then sure he is low diffing Kaido. Those opinions would be valid IF Joyboy indeed is a God like character.

But as we have already established, we don't know enough about Joyboy other than slaves referred him as God and that Luffy probably has his DF.


----------



## Turrin (Mar 13, 2022)

Hard to say Diff without knowing what else Kaidou has. If Hybrid Drunk Forms are his Peak, he will be Mid to High Diff’d here (High potentially because of the stamina drain of Awakening for Luffy). If Kaidou has awakening himself it will be High/Extreme Diff for Luffy

This is of course assuming it’s current beat up Luffy and not Ancient Joy Boy or Joy Boy controlling Luffy; if it’s those 2 then Kaidou is getting Low Diff

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## convict (Mar 13, 2022)

Amol said:


> People think Joyboy is actually God level unlike my personal interpretation of him being  just another PK level character.
> 
> If you think Joyboy is actually God  character then sure he is low diffing Kaido. Those opinions would be valid IF Joyboy indeed is a God like character.
> 
> But as we have already established, we don't know enough about Joyboy other than slaves referred him as God and that Luffy probably has his DF.



As I said though, even if prime ancient Joyboy was God level as people think which is a maybe, we don't know if Luffy would be at that level yet or could sustain it for long. 

I just wanted to see whether your zeal and passion in reprimanding biased character overestimation extended to Luffy.

It doesn't as expected but at least I'll give it to you that your personal opinion of a wait and see approach on joyboy Luffy vs Kaido is more reasonable than the outrageous Luffy wank in this thread.


----------



## Turrin (Mar 13, 2022)

convict said:


> No you don't have to be the keeper of the people to answer a simple question. I just wanted your opinion
> 
> So you agree people are overrating the hell out of Luffy right now and are being extremely premature by saying he low/mid diffs Kaido? Because the question isn't even ancient joyboy. It is current Luffy. We don't know how strong those joyboy powers are right now. Whether they need to be trained to reach peak potential How long he can sustain it. And this is a fresh Kaido the world's strongest who never fought a gauntlet before the fight would even *ancient Joyboy low to mid diff him?*


Yes he is. Joy Boy is hyped above Roger who is equal to Prime WB, who is clearly stronger then Old/Sick WB who is above Kaidou by every source you can cite. There are two to three Tiers of difference in ability there. And it shows because the WG rather end up facing a Yonko Alliance between BM and Kaidou then even a Ghost of Joy Boy resurrecting in Luffy; and Joy Boy’s Nakama even after weakening for 1000 Years clap one shots, one of Kaidou’s top dogs (Jack) + Back up. Like Oda literally could not make that parallel with Jack and Zunesha any clearer; both are elephants but Zunesha is like hundred of times stronger then Jack and to the point many thought he was an ancient weapon.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 2


----------



## convict (Mar 13, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Yes he is. Joy Boy is hyped above Roger who is equal to Prime WB, who is clearly stronger then Old/Sick WB who is above Kaidou by every source you can cite. There are two to three Tiers of difference in ability there. And it shows because the WG rather end up facing a Yonko Alliance between BM and Kaidou then even a Ghost of Joy Boy resurrecting in Luffy; and Joy Boy’s Nakama even after weakening for 1000 Years clap one shots, one of Kaidou’s top dogs (Jack) + Back up. Like Oda literally could not make that parallel with Jack and Zunesha any clearly; both are elephants but Zunesha is like hundred of times stronger then Jack and to the point many thought he was an ancient weapon.



@Turrin sensei the GOAT one can only respectfully dish out a winner and move on

Honestly you come up with creative arguments no-one else even begins to fathom cheers

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 1


----------



## Amol (Mar 13, 2022)

convict said:


> As I said though, even if prime ancient Joyboy was God level as people think which is a maybe, we don't know if Luffy would be at that level yet or could sustain it for long.
> 
> I just wanted to see whether your zeal and passion in reprimanding biased character overestimation extended to Luffy.
> 
> It doesn't as expected but at least I'll give it to you that your personal opinion of a wait and see approach on joyboy Luffy vs Kaido is more reasonable than the outrageous Luffy wank in this thread.


Is this your wierd attempt to justify your utterly wrong opinion about Ryuma ?

Joyboy hypothetically actually can be a God level character so it actually won't be an overestimation.

That is not Luffy bias. Joyboy after all is literally referred as God so he actually can be a God. Shonen does have long traditions of turning their MCs into God characters.

This scenario is very very very different than your reaching of trying to put Ryuma above Roger with zero hype, portrayal or feats to support.

Joyboy has one of the best hype in series after all.

This is obvious use of false equivalency. I knew you didn't just want to see my opinion. You had agenda while you tagged me. That much was obvious to me hence my reaction of asking you whether am I keeper of other people.

I think you would enjoy this manga more if you stopped trying to fit Zoro with Luffy as if they are peers. They never were and they never will be.

Luffy is fundamentally different character and his level has no correlation to Zoro's. This wierd competition with Luffy, tends to cause Zoro stans to come up with one weird wanking logic after another. Zoro just has no competition with Luffy. Zoro is a follower of Pirate Jesus. He is never going to be his peer.


----------



## Tsukuyomi (Mar 13, 2022)

convict said:


> @Turrin sensei the GOAT one can only respectfully dish out a winner and move on
> 
> Honestly you come up with creative arguments no-one else even begins to fathom cheers


He is a chad afterall

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## TheWiggian (Mar 13, 2022)

@convict sun god and Luffy overhype is fine but fuck the sword god and Zoro hype, it's disgusting mosshead wank.

Reactions: Funny 4


----------



## convict (Mar 13, 2022)

Amol said:


> Is this your wierd attempt to justify your utterly wrong opinion about Ryuma ?
> 
> Joyboy hypothetically actually can be a God level character so it actually won't be an overestimation.
> 
> That is not Luffy bias. Joyboy after all is literally referred as God so he actually can be a God. Shonen does have long traditions of turning their MCs into God characters.



Oh so now the term God is a huge deal? What about the literal race of Gods on the Redline people worship? Is everyone of them unbeatable too? God of Skypeia? God of...the blade?

And keeping on reading on and...yup that is the only reasoning used for justifying low to mid-diffing the world's strongest creature without even knowing how strong someone is and how much of that power *current Luffy can unlock.*

Luffy being MC is also somehow an argument even though we all know the Luffy we are talking about is current Luffy. Low to mid diff  Kaido seems logical for current Luffy to be able to do in a few chapters. And what does he steamroll the marines in a few chapters next? As someone who very emphatically argued with me before that Luffy will not lose to Kaido again on the roof one would think you would gain some humility. Oh wait but sorry the narrator box was wrong and premature. Luffy didn't lose this time I recall reading that was also an argument of yours. 

We can ignore the Ryuuma stuff as that is for another thread. But looks like you in fact do seem completely fine with the complete overhype of Luffy here and that is disappointing.


----------



## A Optimistic (Mar 13, 2022)

Chip Skylark said:


> Why would Kaido aspire to become Joy Boy himself if the resulting power up was no stronger than he was at 100%



this

it’s obviously full power joyboy is the strongest person in one piece history 

Kaido loses


----------



## The crazy hacker (Mar 13, 2022)

Honestly Luffy having a form that can mid diff a fresh Kaido is bad for the story. It means that all he needs to do to be the PK is master this form. Plus every single awakening wasnt a game changer. Doflamingo, Katakuri, Law and Kidds awakenings didnt make a drastic difference to their powers.

But what we want wont change what oda is going to portray. He could have Kaido get ragdolled by Luffy in this form still.


----------



## A Optimistic (Mar 13, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Mid diff sounds about right if JB/Imu is a tier above PK tier



oh look 

shiba is fine with joyboy/imu being above pk tier but not ryuma 

I’m so shocked at the double standards

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 13, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> oh look
> 
> shiba is fine with joyboy/imu being above pk tier but not ryuma
> 
> I’m so shocked at the double standards


yeah because Ryuuma is a rando from 400 years ago that Wano wanks

as of right now, Mihawk > Ryuuma

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


----------



## A Optimistic (Mar 13, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> yeah because Ryuuma is a rando from 400 years ago that Wano wanks
> 
> as of right now, Mihawk > Ryuuma



ryuma, joyboy, and imu are all gods 

can’t pick and choose which god you gonna wank

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 13, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> ryuma, joyboy, and imu are all gods


1) they arent gods, but men
2) Ryuuma has *no business* being lumped with the other 2 VC legends

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## A Optimistic (Mar 13, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> 2) Ryuuma has *no business* being lumped with the other 2 VC legends



based on what? In fact, ryuma is the only one who’s actually called a god on panel at the moment so burden of proof is on you to show joyboy and imu can keep up with ryuma

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 13, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> based on what? In fact, ryuma is the only one who’s actually called a god on panel at the moment so burden of proof is on you to show joyboy and imu can keep up with ryuma


thats for you to provide feats for him, seeing as he is featless and the characters 400 years ago are also featless
meanwhile Imu rules the world

being called God by biased Wano troglodytes means nothing. Narrator didnt call him god.



we can also ignore JB and Imu entirely
Mihawk is still > Ryuuma, his black sword is higher grade  
and being above Shanks is >> Ryuumas non-existent feats

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## Turrin (Mar 13, 2022)

The crazy hacker said:


> Honestly Luffy having a form that can mid diff a fresh Kaido is bad for the story. It means that all he needs to do to be the PK is master this form. Plus every single awakening wasnt a game changer. Doflamingo, Katakuri, Law and Kidds awakenings didnt make a drastic difference to their powers.
> 
> But what we want wont change what oda is going to portray. He could have Kaido get ragdolled by Luffy in this form still.


Or maybe the interpretation of Kaidou’s title is wrong…….or even if he is the strongest the WG’s weapon makes the user way above his pay grade still, which clearly has to be the case because WG stopped Joy Boy the first time presumably with this weapon.


----------



## Amol (Mar 13, 2022)

convict said:


> Oh so now the term God is a huge deal? What about the literal race of Gods on the Redline people worship? Is everyone of them unbeatable too? God of Skypeia? God of...the blade?


Are you literally trying anymore?
This is some low effort post. Trolling really.

You are comparing MC possibly being a God to random side side side character of Skypeia?

Is One Piece only shonen you have read (that is rhetorical question)?

If you can't see why Joyboy(who probably was the orginal owner of One Piece) being God is different to Gan Fall then honestly I have overestimated you as a poster.




convict said:


> And keeping on reading on and...yup that is the only reasoning used for justifying low to mid-diffing the world's strongest creature without even knowing how strong someone is and how much of that power *current Luffy can unlock.*
> 
> Luffy being MC is also somehow an argument even though we all know the Luffy we are talking about is current Luffy. Low to mid diff  Kaido seems logical for current Luffy to be able to do in a few chapters. And what does he steamroll the marines in a few chapters next? As someone who very emphatically argued with me before that Luffy will not lose to Kaido again on the roof one would think you would gain some humility. Oh wait but sorry the narrator box was wrong and premature. Luffy didn't lose this time I recall reading that was also an argument of yours.
> 
> We can ignore the Ryuuma stuff as that is for another thread. But looks like you in fact do seem completely fine with the complete overhype of Luffy here and that is disappointing.


This is nothing but you ranting.

Your Zoro wanking was exposed _in different thread_ which clearly hurt your ego and now you are left with randomly trying to get your gotcha moment by doing random comparisons and moon level reachings _in this thread._

Maybe instead of lashing out like this you could actually stop having unhealthy obsession with Zoro.


Joyboy being a God or not being a God has no correlation with Ryuma. Ryuma is a nobody to actually overall story. I have zero reasons to believe that he is stronger than Mihawk.

On the other hand there are plenty reasons why Joyboy can actually be a God (I don't personally believe that but those reasons do exists).

So people who are saying that Joyboy could low diff Kaido are not being biased as Joyboy could infact be a God. In shonen MCs do infact end up being Gods. There is an actual manga logic there. There is no logic other than Zoro wanking with your Ryuma nonsense.

You are in dire need of dissociating yourself from Zoro. Let him go. He is just a one fictional character. You are embarassing yourself now with all this. My disappointment is beyond words.

Reactions: Informative 1


----------



## convict (Mar 13, 2022)

Amol said:


> Are you literally trying anymore?
> This is some low effort post. Trolling really.
> 
> You are comparing MC possibly being a God to random side side side character of Skypeia?
> ...



Yeah I’m the one ranting and lashing out.

I made my point either way and you haven’t brought anything new to the table as to why current Luffy would low-mid fresh Kaido knowing a whole chunk of the story is still left to tell besides him being a “God” who is the greatest God ever, the best God so I’ll drop it.

Reactions: Neutral 1


----------



## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 13, 2022)

If luffy beats kaido, does that makes him the strongest


----------



## Chip Skylark (Mar 13, 2022)

Amol said:


> Are you literally trying anymore?
> This is some low effort post. Trolling really.
> 
> You are comparing MC possibly being a God to random side side side character of Skypeia?
> ...


Didn’t seem like he’s denying JB’s hype. His take that we don’t know for certain how much of JB’s strength Luffy can bring out, or how long he can sustain it for is reasonable.

He’s absolutely a Zoro wanker. Might even be head of the legion. But this isn’t that. His reservation over something we know nothing about is valid, and I might even be inclined to agree that you arguing as if it’s certain that Current JB Luffy can win with that level of difficulty is a bit biased. At the very least, you’re really jumping the gun, and it’s weird to stand by that take so fervently this early on.

Reactions: Dislike 1


----------



## Amol (Mar 13, 2022)

Chip Skylark said:


> Didn’t seem like he’s denying JB’s hype. His take that we don’t know for certain how much of JB’s strength Luffy can bring out, or how long he can sustain it for is reasonable.
> 
> He’s absolutely a Zoro wanker. Might even be head of the legion. But this isn’t that. His reservation over something we know nothing about is valid, and I might even be inclined to agree that *you arguing as if it’s certain that Current JB Luffy can win with that level of difficulty* is a bit biased. At the very least, you’re really jumping the gun, and it’s weird to stand by that take so fervently this early on.


This pisses me off tbh tbf.

Genuinely pisses me off. Like did you actually read posts before you randomly decided to butt in the conversation?

I never ever said that Joyboy or Luffy could low diff Kaido. My stance was that I don't have enough info on Joyboy to make any assessment. Joyboy could be a God or he could be just another PK level character. We just don't know yet anything for sure.

So I was doing anything but jumping the gun. I literally said that my stance is wait for next chapter. Read the very first post I made in this thread only.

So only you here jumped the gun and assumed what I was talking about by putting words in my mouth. Don't accuse someone of doing something that you are doing.


----------



## Perrin (Mar 13, 2022)

Kaido still wins, this powerup won’t be enough.
We need gear 5.


----------



## Turrin (Mar 13, 2022)

convict said:


> Yeah I’m the one ranting and lashing out.
> 
> I made my point either way and you haven’t brought anything new to the table as to why current Luffy would low-mid fresh Kaido knowing a whole chunk of the story is still left to tell besides him being a “God” who is the greatest God ever, the best God so I’ll drop it.


I mean it seems very likely that he would destroy Hybrid Kaidou at least. After all if G4 was already fighting evenly with Kaidou’s strongest Drunk Form, if Awakening is any kind of significant amp it should lower the Diff to Mid ( High depending on how you factor in the cost of using a move in Diff potentially). After all if it didn’t do that much the power up would be utterly pointless and would lack the appropriate hype. I think it’s pretty clear that if Kaidou isn’t getting destroyed here, it’s because he has his own Awakening

Reactions: Agree 2 | Informative 1


----------



## convict (Mar 13, 2022)

Turrin said:


> I mean it seems very likely that he would destroy Hybrid Kaidou at least. After all if G4 was already fighting evenly with Kaidou’s strongest Drunk Form, if Awakening is any kind of significant amp it should lower the Diff to Mid ( High depending on how you factor in the cost of using a move in Diff potentially). After all if it didn’t do that much the power up would be utterly pointless and would lack the appropriate hype. I think it’s pretty clear that if Kaidou isn’t getting destroyed here, it’s because he has his own Awakening



Given what happened to Big Mom it is possible but I would be shocked if Kaido won’t be shown to have awakening.


----------



## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 13, 2022)

convict said:


> Given what happened to Big Mom it is possible but I would be shocked if Kaido won’t be shown to have awakening.


Kaido either has already been showing awakening or just doesn't have what you're expecting.


----------



## Fujitora (Mar 13, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Hard to say Diff without knowing what else Kaidou has. If Hybrid Drunk Forms are his Peak, he will be Mid to High Diff’d here (High potentially because of the stamina drain of Awakening for Luffy). If Kaidou has awakening himself it will be High/Extreme Diff for Luffy
> 
> This is of course assuming it’s current beat up Luffy and not Ancient Joy Boy or Joy Boy controlling Luffy;* if it’s those 2 then Kaidou is getting Low Diff*


And why is that?


----------



## Fujitora (Mar 13, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> based on what? In fact, ryuma is the only one who’s actually called a god on panel at the moment so burden of proof is on you to show joyboy and imu can keep up with ryuma


One is the secret ruler of the entire wordl for seemingly centuries, the other had to be removed from history entirely. 

People know Ryuma existed and his feats, there is the difference. Ryuma has no business being brought up in the same breath as those 2 imo.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Dead Precedence (Mar 14, 2022)

That reminds me did Joyboy bury the dogmatic nobody can solo 2 top tiers line of thinking after all? Seeing as so many think he can wtfpwn Kaido.

Joyboy vs 3 Fujitora threads are gonna be the new wave.

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Eustathios (Mar 14, 2022)

Dead Precedence said:


> That reminds me did Joyboy bury the dogmatic nobody can solo 2 top tiers line of thinking after all? Seeing as so many think he can wtfpwn Kaido.
> 
> Joyboy vs 3 Fujitora threads are gonna be the new wave.


Looks like this is going into Naruto territory where Joyboy and Im will be way stronger than Roger/WB

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 14, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> Looks like this is going into Naruto territory where Joyboy and Im will be way stronger than Roger/WB


rip OG Piece, 1998- 2022, will be missed.

Now With the Imu vs Primebeard, Roger, Fujitora threads

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


----------



## Dead Precedence (Mar 14, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> rip OG Piece, 1998- 2022, will be missed.
> 
> Now With the Imu vs Primebeard, Roger, Fujitora threads


On the bright side maybe One Piece God tiers will be able to contend with other shounens (doubt) at this rate.


----------



## Turrin (Mar 14, 2022)

~Flow~ said:


> And why is that?


Because Joy Boy should be massively above Kaidou


----------



## Turrin (Mar 14, 2022)

convict said:


> Given what happened to Big Mom it is possible but I would be shocked if Kaido won’t be shown to have awakening.


I think he will have it as well, but just saying if he doesn’t then Luffy should take him to task


----------



## Issmhd16 (Mar 14, 2022)

I think that he's as strong as 100% kaido right now. He has all there is to become the strongest which are the 3 advanced haki types and awakening so it goes extreme diff either way


----------



## Heart Over Blade (Mar 15, 2022)

Dead Precedence said:


> That reminds me did Joyboy bury the dogmatic nobody can* solo 2 top tiers *line of thinking after all? Seeing as so many think he can wtfpwn Kaido.


I think we may need to redefine what a top tier is by then. The PK tiers will be the new top tiers, while Imu/Joy Boy are the god tiers. 

Can we really call Admirals/Yonkous top tiers anymore if there are two more tiers above them? It will sound funny.


----------



## Corax (Mar 15, 2022)

Heart Over Blade said:


> I think we may need to redefine what a top tier is by then. The PK tiers will be the new top tiers, while Imu/Joy Boy are the god tiers.
> 
> Can we really call Admirals/Yonkous top tiers anymore if there are two more tiers above them? It will sound funny.


PK are just in top bracket of top tier. Only Imu/Joy Boy are god tier. For now at least.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Yumi Zoro (Mar 15, 2022)

I declare this a lol diff for Joyboy.


----------



## Yumi Zoro (Mar 15, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> yeah because Ryuuma is a rando from 400 years ago that Wano wanks
> 
> as of right now, Mihawk > Ryuuma



Gonna Come back to this post in a month or 2.

The salt will be Delicious.


----------



## trance (Mar 15, 2022)

Dead Precedence said:


> That reminds me did Joyboy bury the dogmatic nobody can solo 2 top tiers line of thinking after all?


nah

it just means those previously thought to be top tier were not top tier

the five kage from nardo were generally thought to be top tiers...and then madara came along and completely bumped them down a tier...with the same thing happening to madara once kaguya came into the picture

shit happens


----------

