# Hebi Sasuke vs. Tsunade & Mei



## Rocky (Jan 21, 2013)

Location: Grassy Field
Distance: 20m
Mindset: IC
Knowledge: Manga
Restrictions: None

Suigetsu, Juugo, and Karin join the fight. Also, Sasuke is unrestricted.


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## raizen28 (Jan 21, 2013)

Sasuke Would opt for a Chidori spear on Tsunade and dodge her attacks with his superior speed and reflexes while Mei tries to counter with her Kekkei  Genkai releases.


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## Kanki (Jan 21, 2013)

This is a horrible rape. For whom you ask? Well that depends on whether you're an idiot or not

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Thunder (Jan 21, 2013)

There's no way Hebi Sasuke is defeating two shinobi of this level, especially if they're unrestricted. Once Kirigakure no Jutsu goes up, he'll will be easy pickings.


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## Melodie (Jan 21, 2013)

Both of the Kunoichi are within his level. This is unfair.


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## Rocky (Jan 21, 2013)

I'll give Sasuke his team to attempt to balance things.


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## Veo (Jan 21, 2013)

Mei alone defeats this version of Sasuke, why would you add Tsunade? The Uchiha gets slapped and spanked.


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## Rocky (Jan 21, 2013)

Veo said:


> Mei alone defeats this version of Sasuke.



I really wouldn't go that far.


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## Melodie (Jan 21, 2013)

Rocky915 said:


> I really wouldn't go that far.



I would. But this is for another thread, another time.

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Adding  team Hebi does help, of course. But I don't see Juugo, Suigetsu, and Karin to be threat to the kages. Karin is a weak ninja. She may be great at support, but when your opponent has deadly and destructive attacks, she may be taken out without even being their primary target. [Mei's Komu no jutsu, and Tsunade's monstrous strength]. There's also the fact that Mei has Kirigakure no jutsu, which would obscure their vision. With their sensor [and healer] defeated, they won't be able to locate the kages, or heal from the Mizukage's acid; Which was able to melt Susano'o in a short period of time. Tsunade won't be killed by the acid or anything of that sort, as her medical techniques are superb, and she has a regeneration technique that was able to stay for about a day [Excluding the other techniques that she used, which consumed a large amount of chakra]. There is also Katsuyu and Mizukage's large water-techniques for defense purposes


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## Rocky (Jan 21, 2013)

Melodie said:


> Adding  team Hebi does help, of course. But I don't see Juugo, Suigetsu, and Karin to be threat to the kages. Karin is a weak ninja. She may be great at support, but when your opponent has deadly and destructive attacks, she may be taken out without even being their primary target.



Juugo and Suigetsu do have fatal attacks, so they are a threat. Mei and Tsunade certainly have the abilities to deal with them, but they are not non-factors. They are actually formidable when teamed with Sasuke, capable of pressuring Base Bee and his freakish CQC abilities.

And Karin isn't going to become part of collateral damage. Her team protected her life in the face of the Hachibi, which Mei & Tsunade do not compare to. The Kage will have to _work_ to take out Hebi's medic.   



> There's also the fact that Mei has Kirigakure no jutsu, which would obscure their vision. Tsunade won't be killed by the acid or anything of that sort, as her medical techniques are superb, and she has a regeneration technique that was able to stay for about a day [Excluding the other techniques that she used, which consumed a large amount of chakra].



Mei's mist will obscure her & Tsunade's vision as well. As we saw before, the mist is most effective when the user is trained in silent killing, like Zabuza. 

While the acid is troublesome for Hebi, Sasuke can summon Manda to escape the mist and acid, however effective it may be when used outdoors. 



> There is also Katsuyu and Mizukage's large water-techniques for defense purposes



Katsuyu is a large and rather slow summon (it's a slug). Sasuke's proven he knows the method to control animals with the Sharingan, and Katsuyu is quite susceptible to it. And I don't think Mei's water is capable enough to deal with all of Sasuke attacks, including Kirin should it come to that.


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## Veo (Jan 21, 2013)

Rocky915 said:


> Katsuyu is a large and rather slow summon (it's a slug). Sasuke's proven he knows the method to control animals with the Sharingan, and Katsuyu is quite susceptible to it. And I don't think Mei's water is capable enough to deal with all of Sasuke attacks, including Kirin should it come to that.



Can you tell us how you came to think that Katsuyu is susceptible to genjutsu? I don't recall anything like that. Let alone control her mind.

Acid spit can kill Sasuke if he doesn't use oral rebirth quickly. Also Katsuyu can provide Intel, can be used for cummunication purposes and can heal.

Mei water jutsus' scale are on pair with Kisame. She can definitely block Sasuke's attacks. Hell, she can kill him by herself, she's that deadly.


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## Rocky (Jan 21, 2013)

Veo said:


> Can you tell us how you came to think that Katsuyu is susceptible to genjutsu? I don't recall anything like that. Let alone control her mind.







> Acid spit can kill Sasuke if he doesn't use oral rebirth quickly. Also Katsuyu can provide Intel, can be used for cummunication purposes and can heal.



Sasuke easily has the speed to dodge her acid even if he didn't control her.



> Mei water jutsus' scale are on pair with Kisame. She can definitely block Sasuke's attacks. Hell, she can kill him by herself, she's that deadly.



No they're not. Kisame's Suiton: Daikoden or even Suiton: Senshokukō trump anything Mei's ever shown. Kirin would plow through any defense Mei can muster. 

Sasuke is more a CQC fighter anyway, where he would decimate Mei with Ration.


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## Shinryu (Jan 21, 2013)

Hebi Sasuke doesnt have MS Hax so Mei could just create a field of acid mist and wait for them to commit suicide while Tsunade could summon Katsuyu and oneshot


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## Melodie (Jan 21, 2013)

This is good, I've been out of shape lately.



Rocky915 said:


> Juugo and Suigetsu do have fatal attacks, so they're threat.



Okay? Just because they have note-worthy techniques, it doesn't make them competent against those two. We have seen a large amount of ninjas that has a technique like _Ranton: Reizā Sākasu_, do you think that makes them worthy to compete against any of the Five Kages? It is not only about the techniques, it is about the overall skill, combat ability, and the way they utilise their techniques.



> Mei and Tsunade certainly have the abilities to deal with them, but they are not non-factors. They are actually formidable when teamed with Sasuke, capable of pressuring Base Bee and his freakish CQC abilities.



Yeah, they're not non-factors. In-fact, I have never said that they're non-factors. I believed that the match was completely unfair, and with addition of Team hebi, it was a better match-up. As for Bee: Please note that Bee wasn't taking them seriously. He was playing around. He hardly took the fight seriously. But here, the kages doesn't have the same mind-set as Bee. There's also the fact that the Kages fighting style is completely different. Both of these female ninjas has deadly techniques that could take someone out with a single strike.



> And Karin isn't going to become part of collateral damage. Her team protected her life in the face of the Hachibi, which Mei & Tsunade do not compare to. The Kage will have to _work_ to take out Hebi's medic.



Again, this is quite different. There will be mists that obscure their vision, and mist that could melt them in a matter of seconds. As well as Tsunade's strikes [_x_], and Katsuyu's _Zesshi Nessan_. Saving her isn't within their arsenal.




> Mei's mist will obscure her & Tsunade's vision as well. As we saw before, the mist is most effective when the user is trained in silent killing, like Zabuza.



Thinking that the Kage of the _Hidden mist _village, can't utilise the _Hidden mist_ technique properly is absurd. She doesn't have to be as good as Zabuza. She should have the power to use her technique properly. Even in the fourth great world war, we have seen shinobis that can fight properly in the Mist [_1_,_2_]. Which are most likely from the mist [and some other villages]. as for Tsunade, she has an _amazing hearing ability_, so it wouldn't be a problem for her. 




> While the acid is troublesome for Hebi, Sasuke can summon Manda to escape the mist and acid, however effective it may be when used outdoors.



The mist was able to melt off Susano'o in few seconds. And it wasn't at it's maximum potential (the Mizukage could control the pH level). To think that they could stay for a considerable time is absurd. Especially considering that they have no knowledge about her technique. Even if they were able to get out, they will not be in a shape where they could have a fair fight [with the exception of Jugo, as his durability is note-worthy].





> Katsuyu is a large and rather slow summon (it's a slug).



You shouldn't use the real-world's logic in this Manga. It was shown in the Pain invasion that Katsuyu isn't slow [_x_]. 



> Sasuke's proven he knows the method to control animals with the Sharingan, and Katsuyu is quite susceptible to it. And I don't think Mei's water is capable enough to deal with all of Sasuke attacks, including Kirin should it come to that.



Unlike Manda, once Katsuyu divides, illusionary techniques wouldn't be working. Mei could cover everything they have in their arsenal, with the exception of Kirin. But the fight will end before Sasuke even utilise to it.​


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## Meruem (Jan 21, 2013)

I think that the teamwork of Sasuke and his team is being underestimated by some people here.  Juugo is extremely strong physically and can hold off Tsunade with Suigetsu's help.  Sasuke has Manda to hold off Katsuyu as well as a genjutsu to possible make Katsuyu fight for him for a short period of time.  Sasuke can have a duel with Mei and in this location, he should win it.  He is much faster than Mei and can close the distance quickly.  She can try to keep him back and hurt him but the best she can hope for is forcing him to use Oral Rebirth.  Once he's in close enough, he outclasses her by a lot in close-quarters combat so he should defeat her quickly.  If she can keep him away for long enough and do some damage to him, she could possibly win by trapping him in a way that makes his new body get killed the second he Oral Rebirths.  I think that Sasuke is slightly stronger 1v1 though.  Tsunade will defeat Suigetsu and Juugo but it will take a while because Juugo is a tank and is very physically strong and Suigetsu is nearly impossible for Tsunade to put down because she relies so heavily on physical attacks.  The duo have no chance of actually beating her but they can definitely stall her for a while.  We can't forget that Karin has really good healing capabilities, if Suigetsu and Juugo can keep her alive then she can heal Sasuke once he finishes Mei and then the whole team can take out Tsunade. 

The other way this fight can go is Mei takes on Sasuke's Team while Tsunade takes on Sasuke.  This way ends much worse for Sasuke and his team.  Tsunade can survive for an extremely long time against Sasuke.  Mei can kill Juugo and Suigetsu fairly quickly because of matchup.  She isn't reliant on physical strength and can fight from a range.  Karin is essentially a nonfactor in this situation because Mei will take her out after Suigetsu and Juugo.  Team Kunoichi should win this 7/10 times with high difficulty.


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## Rocky (Jan 22, 2013)

Melodie said:


> Okay? Just because they have note-worthy techniques, it doesn't make them competent against those two. We have seen a large amount of ninjas that has a technique like _Ranton: Reizā Sākasu_, do you think that makes them worthy to compete against any of the Five Kages? It is not only about the techniques, it is about the overall skill, combat ability, and the way they utilise their techniques.



Maybe how I worded it was wrong. Suigetsu & Juugo have proven competent enough to go against the likes of Tsunade & Mei. Suigetsu is actually a horrid match-up for Tsunade. You're kind of dissing them completely merely on the fact that Mei and Tsunade are Kage level.



> Yeah, they're not non-factors. In-fact, I have never said that they're non-factors. I believed that the match was completely unfair, and with addition of Team hebi, it was a better match-up. As for Bee: Please note that Bee wasn't taking them seriously. He was playing around. He hardly took the fight seriously. But here, the kages doesn't have the same mind-set as Bee. There's also the fact that the Kages fighting style is completely different. Both of these female ninjas has deadly techniques that could take someone out with a single strike.



I'd say that the use of the 7-Sword dance marked the end of Bee's games. He was actively engaging them, and they countered. The Kage do have the same mindset as Bee, kill the opposition. Furthermore, Tsuande as a similar fighting style to Bee: overwhelm the opponent up close. It's just that Bee relies on his freakish Kenjutsu while Tsunade relies on her medical prowess and counter attack ability.  



> Again, this is quite different. There will be mists that obscure their vision, and mist that could melt them in a matter of seconds. As well as Tsunade's strikes [_x_], and Katsuyu's _Zesshi Nessan_. Saving her isn't within their arsenal.



Literally, Sasuke could grab Karin, activate the Juin, and fly out of the mist, while Suigetsu liquidizes and Juugo tanks. Tsunade's going to have to search for them in the mist, while constantly draining Chakra tanking the Susano'o melting acid. Katsuyu will be busy with Manda, whom Sasuke will summon should Tsunade bring out her boss.




> Thinking that the Kage of the _Hidden mist _village, can't utilise the _Hidden mist_ technique properly is absurd. She doesn't have to be as good as Zabuza. She should have the power to use her technique properly. Even in the fourth great world war, we have seen shinobis that can fight properly in the Mist [_1_,_2_]. Which are most likely from the mist [and some other villages]. as for Tsunade, she has an _amazing hearing ability_, so it wouldn't be a problem for her.



I never said she couldn't use the mist effectively. I said she was never trained in the 7-Swordsmen's art of silent killing, which imo, is the most effective form of combat in the mist. Wave Kakashi was able to fight properly in the mist as well, it's never been that difficult. But it's irrelevant, as Sasuke has means of escaping the mist. Manda can even help get his team out, by burrowing underground.



> The mist was able to melt off Susano'o in few seconds. And it wasn't at it's maximum potential (the Mizukage could control the pH level). To think that they could stay for a considerable time is absurd. Especially considering that they have no knowledge about her technique. Even if they were able to get out, they will not be in a shape where they could have a fair fight [with the exception of Jugo, as his durability is note-worthy].



As I said, Suigetsu can turn to liquid, Sasuke can activate he Juin & fly out of there with Karin. They don't have to stay where they are disadvantaged. 





> You shouldn't use the real-world's logic in this Manga. It was shown in the Pain invasion that Katsuyu isn't slow [_x_].



Slow is a relative term. In comparison to Sharingan Sasuke, she's massively slow.



> Unlike Manda, once Katsuyu divides, illusionary techniques wouldn't be working. Mei could cover everything they have in their arsenal, with the exception of Kirin. But the fight will end before Sasuke even utilise to it.



Once Sasuke takes control of her, she won't e dividing unless he tells her to, so your point is moot. Unless of course, you think Katsuyu is going to divide _before_ she is taken control of for some reason. 

Also, what's stopping Sasuke from using that killer Shunshin of his to get up close and personal and start overwhelming the Kage with paralyzing Ration Jutsu? Or Shuriken pressure to provide an opening for a more serious attack?


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## Kai (Jan 22, 2013)

Mereum said:
			
		

> Juugo is extremely strong physically and can hold off Tsunade with Suigetsu's help.


He is, but Tsunade is physically the most powerful human in the manga. She's even more powerful than A, who was putting holes in Juugo without showing off his speed to do so. Juugo most likely won't survive attacks that were crumbling Susano'o. Suigetsu's motor skills will get confused by Ranshinsho.

On the other end, Mei would set in Kirigakure no Jutsu naturally, but Karin is an extraordinary sensor who has sensed chakra signatures, levels, and incoming attacks of several Kages to precision for Sasuke. 

The difference is Tsunade will drop Juugo and Suigetsu much faster than Sasuke can kill Mei. Karin's sensing may not be enough to keep up with the combat scenario once Tsunade joins the fray. Tsunade then proceeds to rush Sasuke and activates Byakugo while Mei executes *Futton: Koumu no Jutsu* simultaneously. Tsunade, who is safe with Byakugo active, clashes with Sasuke in CQC while Mei's acid melts Sasuke's body to sludge. If Sasuke opts for long range Mei's acid ends up spreading gradually and will still dissolve him anyway. CS2 durability won't be enough to a jutsu potent enough to melt the ribs of Susano'o.

Tsunade and Mei win mid-high difficulty.


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## Ersa (Jan 22, 2013)

Apparently Suigetsu is Itachi level, he soloes 

In all seriousness, I can see this going either way leaning towards Hebi. Hebi Sasuke can defeat Mei simply due to her lackluster showing in CQC. Assuming he can avoid her longer range suitons (Raiton element) and bring the fight into CQC I can see him winning via CS2.

Juugo and Suigetsu can hold Tsunade off, it largely depends on whether Ranshinsho affect Suigetsu the way it did Kabuto since he is a water logia and whatnot. Juugo can definitely survive a hit from Tsunade but I can't honestly see him lasting too long. Assuming Ranshinsho doesn't affect Suigetsu I believe he can hold her off as he is the worst type of opponent for a tajiutsu specialist like her. From there Sasuke can prep Kirin via his CS2 Katon's and end Tsunade with a Kirin. She won't be able to activate her regen in time nor will she have it on before Kirin because Suigetsu is not a threat in her eyes to use her best jutsu.

Hebi high difficulty.


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## SoleAccord (Jan 22, 2013)

Veo said:


> Mei alone defeats this version of Sasuke



Maybe if it was a small hallway and Sasuke was BLIND, but heeeeell no is Mei beating him in an OPEN FIELD. And this move should work on Mei and Tsunade both, lacking knowledge on Suigetsu's hydration technique. 

Notice how I said 'work', and not 'kill'. Tsunade's the only one who'd IC punch someone anyway, but whether it stuns her long enough for Sasuke to go for a death blow is up in the air. Mei is basically a big laugh unless she's in a confined space. 

If anyone wants to suggest Mei is more threatening than the other Kages in this field, feel free to do that. This fight is at least upper - moderate for both sides, so it should be a good one.


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## tanman (Jan 22, 2013)

Let's not forget that Hebi Sasuke is the one that defeated Deidara. 
He can take out either of them alone, but the two of them together would overpower him.


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## Thor Odinson (Jan 22, 2013)

tanman said:


> Let's not forget that Hebi Sasuke is the one that defeated Deidara.



The same Deidara that got soundly defeated by a team of Kankuro, Sai, Ittan and Omoi, in spite of being a virtually indestructible Edo Tensei and in spite of also having some support from Sasori? Deidara isn't all that great, compared to the Kages. Even Mei wouldn't lose to Team Kankuro, going by feats.


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## Mayweather (Jan 22, 2013)

lol @ you guys saying that the kage's rape this. Sasuke can potentially solo if he plays his cards right. Mei would open with Hidden mist jutsu, sure, but wtf would Tsunade be able to do? jack shit. If she tries to fight Sasuke in the mist she would get hacked to pieces with his Chidori sword, no questions asked. no way in hell is she touching him. once she'd out of the picture, Mei may try to add some acid mist into the fog, but by that time Sasuke has summoned snakes to pinpoint her location, and has subsequently pierced her insides with a blossoming chidori eiso, GG.

Sasuke has CS2 and Katons to counter acid mist, if she tries to hide behind it all day, then he just preps Kirin and nukes her off the face of the planet. Adding his team makes this a stomp, considering the fact that there is a sensor and two high level Jonin with him to rape these two even harder.

Sasuke 9/10 extreme diff.


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## SoleAccord (Jan 22, 2013)

Thor Odinson said:


> The same Deidara that got soundly defeated by a team of Kankuro, Sai, Ittan and Omoi, in spite of being a virtually indestructible Edo Tensei and in spite of also having some support from Sasori? Deidara isn't all that great, compared to the Kages. Even Mei wouldn't lose to Team Kankuro, going by feats.



In all fairness, Sasori got Tnj'd, and that was a guy that was willing to kill his own grandmother with zero fucks given.

I think it's safe to say that most of the old Akatsuki that were once threatening, like Kakuzu, get basically offpanel'd or 'talked down'.  He could have easily spammed C0 and killed thousands upon thousands, and Kishimoto knew this, so he had to find some way to not be called out on this later and get him captured early on. Deidara was too good to be caught so easily.

;-;


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## Thor Odinson (Jan 22, 2013)

Mayweather said:


> lol @ you guys saying that the kage's rape this. Sasuke can potentially solo if he plays his cards right. Mei would open with Hidden mist jutsu, sure, but wtf would Tsunade be able to do? jack shit. If she tries to fight Sasuke in the mist she would get hacked to pieces with his Chidori sword, no questions asked. no way in hell is she touching him. once she'd out of the picture, Mei may try to add some acid mist into the fog, but by that time Sasuke has summoned snakes to pinpoint her location, and has subsequently pierced her insides with a blossoming chidori eiso, GG.
> 
> Sasuke has CS2 and Katons to counter acid mist, if she tries to hide behind it all day, then he just preps Kirin and nukes her off the face of the planet. Adding his team makes this a stomp, considering the fact that there is a sensor and two high level Jonin with him to rape these two even harder.
> 
> Sasuke 9/10 extreme diff.



If Tsunade summons Katsuyu, there's not much Sasuke can do to her, as none of his techniques (excluding Kirin) can even damage Katsuyu at this point - and I personally doubt even Kirin is strong enough to one-shot Katsuyu. It might do a lot of damage and stun the slug, sure. That's it.

I'm sorry, but Katsuyu isn't dying from any of Team Hebi's hits. For heaven's sake, even a hand-sized clone of hers managed to survive direct exposure to KN8 Naruto's chakra shroud, and also tanked KN6 Naruto's Bijudama detonation and Nagato's Chibaku Tensei along the way, I may add.

The easiest method for Tsunade and Mei's victory is to turtle inside of Katsuyu after releasing the acid mist, and laugh at Team Hebi's futile attempts to crush Katsuyu, as the acid mist quickly eats through their bodies and murders all of them. It melted through Susano'o's ribcage, come on.

Cutting Tsunade into half isn't as easy as it sounds - for one, Mabui's Tenso no Jutsu, that's reportedly capable of tearing human bodies to shreds, only gave Tsunade a lot of bloody cuts - and Sozo Saisei still returned her to full health in seconds, at any rate. If she uses Byakugo, Sasuke isn't doing shit.

Also, you're acting as if Sasuke can just stab Mei and Tsunade and they can do nothing about it. If Sasuke gets too close, Mei can use Suiton: Suijinheki to immobilize him in his tracks, as Darui had done, and either let the acid mist melt his insides, or have Tsunade go hulk-smash on him and kill him.

In addition, Tsunade managed to overcome one of Madara's Susano'o clones in close quarters combat, and managed to co-ordinate attacks on Susano'o alongside a super-speed Ay, so I don't believe for one second that Sasuke can blitz her here - he's only ever blitzed fodder tiers, honestly speaking.

Also, you're acting as if CS2 is going to protect Sasuke from the acid mist forever - even the ribcage form of Susano'o couldn't effectively protect Sasuke from Futton: Komu no Jutsu, so his CS2 form (that is _much less durable,_ going by feats and implications) should melt to goo in seconds.

It's also not as if Tsunade and Mei have to fight Team Hebi directly, all they have to do is cast the acid mist, summon Katsuyu as a defense from the mist and Team Hebi's attacks, turtle inside of the gigantic slug, and just wait for the acid mist to melt through the enemies' bodies, killing them in seconds.

*P.S.* Even if Katsuyu does get damaged, Tsunade can keep healing her from inside, so it's no big deal. Admittedly, Kirin could kill Tsunade and Mei if they're hiding inside of Katsuyu and it succeeds in hitting the slug directly, but I very much doubt that Sasuke can get the time to prepare Kirin here.

It takes a lot of prep time, and the acid mist is going to kill Sasuke and his entire squad before he can ever unleash Kirin in time, so Team Hebi is definitely losing this fight. Futton: Komu no Jutsu as offense *and* Katsuyu as defense, very hard to beat that as a combo if you ask me. Team Kage rapes.


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## Mayweather (Jan 22, 2013)

> Thor Odinson said:
> 
> 
> > If Tsunade summons Katsuyu, there's not much Sasuke can do to her, as none of his techniques (excluding Kirin) can even damage Katsuyu at this point - and I personally doubt even Kirin is strong enough to one-shot Katsuyu. It might do a lot of damage and stun the slug, sure. If you look at her durability feats, though?
> ...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Bonly (Jan 22, 2013)

I'd go with team Hebi. Sasuke can handle and beat Mei or Tsunade 1V1(at least in my opinion he can) but both at once is too much. But with Hebi he takes the make up. 

Suigetsu is Tsunade's worst match as he won't get hurt from any of her punches. It even if its a sneak attack,Suigetsu can go into water form as he has been hit by both Karin and Jugo when not expecting to be hit and done so successfully. And so far manga knowledge doesn't seem like she would know about him so she could fall for this and be out for the count and im not sure if her Byakugo or Sōzō Saisei can do anything about it. It really depends on if Tsunade can hit Suigetsu with Ranshinshō and how would it effect his water body.

As for Katsuyu Sasuke could use a genjutsu and take over her unless she splits up. Sasuke could also summon Manda and as we saw during the Sannin fight Manda can constantly pressure Katsuyu to make her less effective. The only good I can see coming from her being summoned is that she makes a clone to go on Mei's shoulder so Tsunade could heal her at any point in time without running to Mei.

With Jugo helping against Tsunade or Mei via lasers as well as being able to heal Sasuke as well as Karin helping with healing I'd say Team Hebi would win high diff. Although Jugo would likely be done after one hit by Tsunade as well as wouldn't last too long against Mei either.



ThePromise said:


> In all fairness, Sasori got Tnj'd, and that was a guy that was willing to kill his own grandmother with zero fucks given.
> 
> I think it's safe to say that most of the old Edo's that were once threatening, like Kakuzu, get basically offpanel'd or 'talked down'.  *He could have easily spammed C0* and killed thousands upon thousands, and Kishimoto knew this, so he had to find some way to not be called out on this later and get him captured early on. Deidara was too good to be caught so easily.
> 
> ;-;



Im not sure about that. If he used C0 once then that means all the clay on him would be gone since it got caught in the explosion. Which means no more art for Deidara.


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## Bansai (Jan 22, 2013)

tanman said:


> Let's not forget that Hebi Sasuke is the one that defeated Deidara.
> He can take out either of them alone, but the two of them together would overpower him.



...No... just no...
You're totally overestimating Sasuke and underestimating Tsunade and Mei Terumi.


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## SoleAccord (Jan 22, 2013)

Bonly said:


> Im not sure about that. If he used C0 once then that means all the clay on him would be gone since it got caught in the explosion. Which means no more art for Deidara.



Touche on that, unless the clay counts as part of his body and magically reforms. I can't prove that myself but it's something to think about. We can at least say C4 would wipe many out, right?


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## Thor Odinson (Jan 22, 2013)

Mayweather said:


> Katsuyu has never been subject to any kind of cutting trama, and I am under the impression that a powerful cut from a chidori eiso will cause her to desummon herself. Unless you have something that proves otherwise. lol don't kid yourself, Katsuyu is not surviving Kirin, not that it's needed here.



Katsuyu is a boss summon, just like Gamabunta - the same Gamabunta that survived a direct blast from Shukaku's Fuuton: Renkudan and seemed relatively fine, even claiming that he could take a few more shots of the technique, the same Fuuton: Renkudan that tore through part of a forest.

If Gamabunta can survive building cutting techniques, Katsuyu should be just fine against Chidori Eiso. Katsuyu is far more durable than Bunta, and Chidori Eiso is vastly inferior to Shukaku's Renkudan as a cutting technique. I don't see it doing anything more than giving Katsuyu a slight itch, TBH.



Mayweather said:


> Naruto's clothes also survived all of the above, are they made of some super Kurama resistant material like Katsuyu? Again, Chidori Eiso should suffice.



The problem is, Katsuyu =/ Naruto's clothes. Katsuyu even *remarked* on being lucky to survive the ordeal she and Naruto had been through, implying that she did *feel* the effects of Chibaku Tensei, the Bijudama implosion *and* KN8 Naruto's chakra, but she still managed to survive all of them.

It's a durability feat for her. Like it, or not.



Mayweather said:


> She wont start off the match with any of her jutsu activated, which spells her doom as soon as he beheaded her with his Raiton blade.



Yeah, and Hebi Sasuke doesn't usually try to behead people using his Raiton blade, either. In fact, Sasuke usually prefers slashing them or piercing them, as opposed to decapitating them outright. Even his more bloodlusted and violent Taka iteration has *never* gone as far as to cut off body parts.



Mayweather said:


> Also, your acting as if Mei and Tsunade can keep track of both Sasuke's Shunshin and his snake summons that will be able to sense them. He is entirely too fast for the both of them, their saving grace if Mei's hidden mist and acid mist, both of which can be countered with Katons.



Who cares about snake summons? Futton: Komu no Jutsu kills them all.

And Sasuke's Katons < Mei's Suitons.

In terms of power *and* elemental advantage.



Mayweather said:


> *Some fodder, offpanel Susanoo clones* and a dynamic entrance alongside EI means she can keep up with him?  yeah, he might not be able to blitz, but she is still painfully outmatched by him in close range. Genjutsu, Chidori variants, and Sharingan are too much for her.



The funny thing is, the only people Hebi Sasuke has ever blitzed or beaten in CQC, are also fodder. At least Tsunade's 'fodder opponents' are Susano'o clones created by one of the strongest shinobi in history, as opposed to Sasuke's 'fodder opponents' being some random, incoherent monsters.

Sasuke can't use any Genjutsu on Tsunade or Mei, due to the mist obscuring his sight and preventing him from making proper eye contact with either of them. This should be obvious - Zabuza used Kirigakure no Jutsu for this very reason, just so Kakashi could not use any Sharingan Genjutsu on him.

Sasuke's Chidori variants are horribly overrated, and Tsunade is Sasuke's superior in CQC. Even if you don't go by Databook scores, the Sauce has been owned by Ei in Taijutsu, as opposed to Tsunade matching or surpassing Ei in CQC performance all throughout the fight against Madara.  

She can one-shot him before Sauce can decapitate her.



Mayweather said:


> Long enough to escape the mist.



'Escape the mist'? Sasuke's going to have to escape the arena then.

And escaping the arena = ring out. Ring out = forfeit. Forfeit = loss.



Mayweather said:


> Sasuke had minor burns coming from his altercation with Mei, *CS2 grants Sasuke multi-city block level durability,* most likely the same as his ribcage Susanoo, which protected him from serious injury in Mei's attack. He should be fine.



Are you kidding me? CS2 Sasuke has never demonstrated multi-city block durability, and even if his skin is 'multi-city block level' in terms of durability, his lungs and eyes aren't - and those parts of his body are still very much vulnerable to the acid mist. I'm sorry, but Acid Mist Jutsu = dead Sauce.

The moment you called Susano'o 'fodder', is the moment you lost all credibility in this post. I mean, seriously, the lengths people go to hate on Tsunade...


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## Bonly (Jan 22, 2013)

Emporio Ivankov said:


> ...No... just no...
> You're totally overestimating Sasuke and underestimating Tsunade and Mei Terumi.



I wouldn't say he is overestimating Sasuke in saying Sasuke can take out either of them 1V1. Thats seems quite plausible also why you gotta throw Mei's last name out there but not Tsunade's .



ThePromise said:


> Touche on that, unless the clay counts as part of his body and magically reforms. I can't prove that myself but it's something to think about. *We can at least say C4 would wipe many out, right?*



Indeed we can my good sir .


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## tanman (Jan 22, 2013)

Thor Odinson said:


> The same Deidara that got soundly defeated by a team of Kankuro, Sai, Ittan and Omoi, in spite of being a virtually indestructible Edo Tensei and in spite of also having some support from Sasori? Deidara isn't all that great, compared to the Kages. Even Mei wouldn't lose to Team Kankuro, going by feats.



No. Not that Deidara. Living Deidara.


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## Thor Odinson (Jan 22, 2013)

tanman said:


> No. Not that Deidara. Living Deidara.



Edo Deidara can regenerate from all injuries - that's the only difference.

If anything, Edo Deidara > Living Deidara.


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## Jak N Blak (Jan 22, 2013)

Sauce has got this in the bag with extra dip and chips.


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## Melodie (Jan 22, 2013)

Rocky915 said:


> Maybe how I worded it was wrong. Suigetsu & Juugo have proven competent enough to go against the likes of Tsunade & Mei. Suigetsu is actually a horrid match-up for Tsunade. You're kind of dissing them completely merely on the fact that Mei and Tsunade are Kage level.



That's an exaggeration. As the manga have displayed, _Suigetsu was defeated by Darui who wasn't even using ninjutsu against him_, and Jugo was destroyed by the Raikage in few seconds. To think that only those two would be a match for those two kages is ludicrous. Especially if you take into account how they were defeated against the Raikage and Darui.

There is also a flaw with your point regarding A being a horrible match-up to B. This is not a one vs. one battle. It's a team battle. This is not a place where you just pit out two opponents and make them fight each other just because A counters B. In this scenario, The mist and Mei's ninjutsu-arsenal would take care of Suigetsu.

Even if we assume that somehow Suigetsu and Tsunade fight each other, Tsunade has _Ranshinsho_ and Katsuyu. Either would be sufficient to incapacitate/defeat Suigetsu. I'm dissing them for the fact that they won't play a large role in this team battle because of their skills.





> I'd say that the use of the 7-Sword dance marked the end of Bee's games. He was actively engaging them, and they countered. The Kage do have the same mindset as Bee, kill the opposition. Furthermore, Tsuande as a similar fighting style to Bee: overwhelm the opponent up close. It's just that Bee relies on his freakish Kenjutsu while Tsunade relies on her medical prowess and counter attack ability.



Not really, in this panel, Bee said that playtime's over [_x_]. That means that he wasn't fighting them for real till he activated the chakra cloak. The kages character is clearly different than that of Bee. Their styles aren't similar. Just because they fight in close-quarter-combat, it doesn't mean they're similar. A single strike from the Hokage and it's over. Taking damage just to land a single punch  on the opponent is her style [_x_]. And again, the Mizukage is there to aid Tsunade, so let's not count her out.



> Literally, Sasuke could grab Karin, activate the Juin, and fly out of the mist, while Suigetsu liquidizes and Juugo tanks. Tsunade's going to have to search for them in the mist, while constantly draining Chakra tanking the Susano'o melting acid. Katsuyu will be busy with Manda, whom Sasuke will summon should Tsunade bring out her boss.



They do not have knowledge of the Acid, so they wouldn't really act immediately. Sure they would act quickly, but not instantaneously. In that period of time they'll be taking damage. In Sasuke's case he will be vulnerable to Mei's water dragons and Katsuyu's acid. The former would return him to his start-point while inflicting damage, and the latter would strike him down.

Suigetsu's case wouldn't work, as liquidizing  would just make him evaporate within a matter of seconds. As for Juugo, he wouldn't be able to do it. Again, that acid is fire-power is ridiculous. And Juugo was defeated by two strikes from the Raikage [_1_,_2_]. The same raikage that couldn't dent Madara's Susano'o with continuous attacks [_x_]. There's also Tsunade there, which he wouldn't be able to compete against fair and square. The only one that might  survive is Sasuke, which would be in a bad condition. And against the two kages, he wouldn't be able to score a win.






> I never said she couldn't use the mist effectively.



You did mention that it would obscure her vision, just like the others. Which is incorrect. As she should be more proficient with it. And fighting in the mist isn't easy. Mei's mist was thick enough that the Rinnegan couldn't see at all [_x_].



> Slow is a relative term. In comparison to Sharingan Sasuke, she's massively slow.



No, Sasuke is a fast character, just because the slug is slower than said character does not mean that it's slow.





> Once Sasuke takes control of her, she won't e dividing unless he tells her to, so your point is moot. Unless of course, you think Katsuyu is going to divide _before_ she is taken control of for some reason.



When it comes to team-support, Katsuyu always divides, so I'm not seeing your  point here. Even if Sasuke had the chance to control the summon, either Mei or Tsunade could break her out of it. There's also the possibility that Katsuyu could break out of it, as she knows medical ninjutsu, but I wouldn't like to use this point as it's a theory.



> Also, what's stopping Sasuke from using that killer Shunshin of his to get up close and personal and start overwhelming the Kage with paralyzing Ration Jutsu? Or Shuriken pressure to provide an opening for a more serious attack?



Both of the Kages were able to coordinate their attacks with Ei [_1_,_2_], to think that they would be overwhelmed by Hebi Sasuke's shunshin is illogical. I do agree that he is faster than them, but this is a matter of reflexes. Shurikens wouldn't work as _Suiton: Suijinchū_  would easily block them.​


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## Shinryu (Jan 22, 2013)

tanman said:


> Let's not forget that Hebi Sasuke is the one that defeated Deidara.
> He can take out either of them alone, but the two of them together would overpower him.



Sasuke had raiton to defuse Deidara's bombs
Sasuke had sharingan to PIS hax through C4
Sasuke had PIS on his side for C0

you do know Deidara could just stayed in the air and drop a C3 on Sasuke right


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## SoleAccord (Jan 22, 2013)

ChaosX7 said:


> you do know Deidara could just stayed in the air and drop a C3 on Sasuke right



If Manda could take C0 he likely would've taken C3, perhaps better, but I can't say for certain.


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## Rocky (Jan 22, 2013)

Melodie said:


> That's an exaggeration. As the manga have displayed, _Suigetsu was defeated by Darui who wasn't even using ninjutsu against him_, and Jugo was destroyed by the Raikage in few seconds. To think that only those two would be a match for those two kages is ludicrous. Especially if you take into account how they were defeated against the Raikage and Darui.
> 
> There is also a flaw with your point regarding A being a horrible match-up to B. This is not a one vs. one battle. It's a team battle. This is not a place where you just pit out two opponents and make them fight each other just because A counters B. In this scenario, The mist and Mei's ninjutsu-arsenal would take care of Suigetsu.
> 
> Even if we assume that somehow Suigetsu and Tsunade fight each other, Tsunade has _Ranshinsho_ and Katsuyu. Either would be sufficient to incapacitate/defeat Suigetsu. I'm dissing them for the fact that they won't play a large role in this team battle because of their skills.



Your overlooking details. Suigetsu was defeated by Darui because the latter is a Ration user (Tsunade and Mei aren't), Suigetsu's weakness. Juugo was defeated becuase Ei had the _speed_ and power to avoid Juugo's point-blank attacks and blindside him. This isn't DBZ, where it's power-level vs. power level. Many matches in Naruto are circumstantial and match-up based.




> Not really, in this panel, Bee said that playtime's over [_x_]. That means that he wasn't fighting them for real till he activated the chakra cloak. The kages character is clearly different than that of Bee. Their styles aren't similar. Just because they fight in close-quarter-combat, it doesn't mean they're similar. A single strike from the Hokage and it's over. Taking damage just to land a single punch  on the opponent is her style [_x_]. And again, the Mizukage is there to aid Tsunade, so let's not count her out.



Bee unsheathed 7 swords and jumped into battle with Sasuke, attempting to kill him. In what sense is that playing around? Is that _not_ what the Kage will be doing, trying to kill him? 

And by similar, yes, I meant simply that they fight up close.



> They do not have knowledge of the Acid, so they wouldn't really act immediately. Sure they would act quickly, but not instantaneously. In that period of time they'll be taking damage. In Sasuke's case he will be vulnerable to Mei's water dragons and Katsuyu's acid. The former would return him to his start-point while inflicting damage, and the latter would strike him down.



Agian, you ignored Manda. And you ignored the 20m Starting distance. If it was 50m, aka long range, then maybe this would hold true, but you act as if Mei will reduce visibility to zero before Sasuke can even get close, despite his speed & reflex advantage and the rather short starting distance. 



> Suigetsu's case wouldn't work, as liquidizing  would just make him evaporate within a matter of seconds. As for Juugo, he wouldn't be able to do it. Again, that acid is fire-power is ridiculous. And Juugo was defeated by two strikes from the Raikage [_1_,_2_]. The same raikage that couldn't dent Madara's Susano'o with continuous attacks [_x_]. There's also Tsunade there, which he wouldn't be able to compete against fair and square. The only one that might  survive is Sasuke, which would be in a bad condition. And against the two kages, he wouldn't be able to score a win.



Acid doesn't cause water to evaporate. That's heat. Acidity and heat are different, don't confuse the two.

Even if Mei manages to ensnare Hebi in the mist, I don't think they'll just sit there and wait to be attacked. Even if they are exposed to the acid, I doubt it would be long enough to hinder Hebi for the rest of the fight. Juugo & Sasuke can tank long enough with the Juin for Sauce to grab Juugo & Karin and fly out of there. Karin can heal her injuries. Alternatively, they could burrow underground with Manda.





> You did mention that it would obscure her vision, just like the others. Which is incorrect. As she should be more proficient with it. And fighting in the mist isn't easy. Mei's mist was thick enough that the Rinnegan couldn't see at all [_x_].



What does proficiency with the mist have to do with seeing in it? Mei doesn't have some special eyes that can see through zero visibility mist that obscures the Sharingan. That's ridiculous.  



> No, Sasuke is a fast character, just because the slug is slower than said character does not mean that it's slow.



Whatever. Semantics. It isn't nearly as fast as Sasuke, so it doesn't make a difference. 



> When it comes to team-support, Katsuyu always divides, so I'm not seeing your  point here. Even if Sasuke had the chance to control the summon, either Mei or Tsunade could break her out of it. There's also the possibility that Katsuyu could break out of it, as she knows medical ninjutsu, but I wouldn't like to use this point as it's a theory.



Katsuyu didn't divide until later in the Sannin 3-way fight. I don't see why it would hurry to divide here. That means Sasuke _will_ have a chance to control it. If Tsunade and Mei go to break the illusion, Sasuke could just have Katsuyu attack them, or better yet, use the opportunity to get into close range. Also, the partner method may not work. It's the same kind of Genjutsu used to control Kurama, which was implied to require a contract seal or something along those lines to break.



> Both of the Kages were able to coordinate their attacks with Ei [_1_,_2_], to think that they would be overwhelmed by Hebi Sasuke's shunshin is illogical. I do agree that he is faster than them, but this is a matter of reflexes. Shurikens wouldn't work as _Suiton: Suijinchū_  would easily block them.



Shinobi coordinating attacks with each other isn't a speed feat. Kakashi can coordinate attacks with 6 gated Gai, and Gai is _massively_ faster. Sasuke could nearly overwhelm Deidara with just speed, and Deidara has a tier gap on Tsunade speed-wise in Kishimoto's Databook. As for it being a matter of reflexes, Sasuke is the most reflexive here, with the Sharingan further enhancing that. I never claimed Sasuke would blitz, I only said it could be used to get up close and he could start applying pressure with Ration & weapons.

I'm not saying Shuriken will kill solo two Kage. I'm saying it it will provide a distraction, which you agree to since you admitted Mei would respond with a Suiton, allowing Sasuke to flicker to Mei's blindside. While she's preoccupied shooting her dragon, Sasuke can, with his superior reflexes (and that's definite thanks to the 3-Tome Sharingan), put a Chidori through her before she can formulate a proper counter-attack. Hebi can stop Tsunade from getting in the way, even if it's only briefly.


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## Sadgoob (Jan 22, 2013)

GREEN vs RED

THE BATTLE OF THE AGES

"*No.*"

"*You're awesome, Strategoob.*"

FUCK YOU, RED, YOU MONGREL!

Seriously though, excellent debate. I will get in on this fo' sho'.


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## Thunder (Jan 22, 2013)

Mayweather said:


> Sasuke has CS2 and Katons to counter acid mist, if she tries to hide behind it all day, then he just preps Kirin and nukes her off the face of the planet. Adding his team makes this a stomp, considering the fact that there is a sensor and two high level Jonin with him to rape these two even harder.



Your strategy for dealing with Mei is a bit off. Activating CS2, and then jumping into close-quarters against her is just plain . . . suicidal. Considering how Fuuton has effortlessly melted something as durable as Susano'o before, Sasuke will need a much stronger defense than what his Hebi incarnation has shown. Attempting to "tank" an element that corrosive with a wannabe Sage Mode is not an option.

Katon are all but worthless here in the face of Mei's Suiton prowess: [1] [2] [3]. And I'm not sure how they're suppose to do anything to Fuuton. 

Kirin won't come into play unless Sasuke can prevent the Kage from double-teaming him. Jūgo and Suigetsu are not lasting long against either of them.


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## Empathy (Jan 22, 2013)

Thor Odinson said:


> The same Deidara that got soundly defeated by a team of Kankuro, Sai, Ittan and Omoi, in spite of being a virtually indestructible Edo Tensei and in spite of also having some support from Sasori? Deidara isn't all that great, compared to the Kages. Even Mei wouldn't lose to Team Kankuro, going by feats.



It was emphasized that immortality made Deidara too arrogant when he flew at low altitudes purposefully in range, openly invited himself to be attacked, and stated he wasn't going to dodge any attacks. If Sai really did get Deidara with speed alone, it's something that none of the Kages (sans A) would do any better against. Deidara faced Gaara and Onoki (who beat at least two of the four Edo Kages by themselves, mind you) and wasn't beaten by either of them.


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## Mayweather (Jan 22, 2013)

Thunder said:


> Your strategy for dealing with Mei is a bit off. Activating CS2, and then jumping into close-quarters against her is just plain . . . suicidal. Considering how Fuuton has effortlessly melted something as durable as Susano'o before, Sasuke will need a much stronger defense than what his Hebi incarnation has shown. Attempting to "tank" an element that corrosive with a wannabe Sage Mode is not an option.


CS2 will allow him to stay alive if he is caught in it, and to get out of it, not as an option to run though it and attack her directly.


> Katon are all but worthless here in the face of Mei's Suiton prowess: [1] [2] [3]. And I'm not sure how they're suppose to do anything to Fuuton.


the Katons are to dispurse the mist around him and to counter acid mist, and to set up Kirin simulatanously. not to attack Mei directly


> Kirin won't come into play unless Sasuke can prevent the Kage from double-teaming him. Jūgo and Suigetsu are not lasting long against either of them.


Which is much easier than you're implying due to the fact that Tsunade isn't going to magically be able to see into the mist and attack Sasuke.


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## Thunder (Jan 22, 2013)

Mayweather said:


> CS2 will allow him to stay alive if he is caught in it, not as an option to run though it and attack he directly.



Still, you haven't explained _how_ a weaker "defense" than Susano'o will protect Sasuke from Fuuton here.



> the Katons are to dispurse the mist around him and to counter acid mist, and to set up Kirin simulatanously. not to attack Mei directly


Firing off Katon jutsu requires Sasuke to _inhale_ first. Not a good idea when acidic mist is in the air. Not to mention, there's nothing stopping Mei from just . . . adding more mist anyway. She can do this all day.



> Which is much easier than you're implying due to the fact that Tsunade isn't going to magically be able to see into the mist and attack Sasuke.


It's not magic. It's just a matter of staying close to Mei who _can_ navigate the mist. They will be attacking in unison. I brought up Hidden Mist before the OP changed the stipulations, mind you. Now that Karin is a factor, it probably won't be used.


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## Melodie (Feb 1, 2013)

Rocky915 said:


> Your overlooking details. Suigetsu was defeated by Darui because the latter is a Ration user (Tsunade and Mei aren't), Suigetsu's weakness. Juugo was defeated becuase Ei had the _speed_ and power to avoid Juugo's point-blank attacks and blindside him. This isn't DBZ, where it's power-level vs. power level. Many matches in Naruto are circumstantial and match-up based.



It doesn't matter whether Darui had a Raiton affinity or not, it's all about the overall skill and how he was able to easily strike Suigetsu in a place that is hardly vulnerable. Of course, Suigetsu didn't let him strike him, as he is well-aware of his weakness. Even if you argue that he wasn't aware, there's the battle against Killer Bee where Suigetsu found out that Raiton is his weakness.

What I want you to realize is that Suigetsu is not invincible against ninjas that does not have the Raiton affinity. [E.G: Sasori would lose against Suigetsu because he doesn't have the raiton affinity to defeat him]. In this case he can be defeated by Tsunade's pseudo-raiton technique or by the Mizukage's continuous lava  as well as her acid mist. In worst-case scenario he would be out of chakra in a short period of time because of the overwhelming difference in skill.

As for Juugo. You do know that the treatment that he's going to get here is kind of similar? He can't withstand the Acid. and any strike from either combatant would put him down instantly. Yes, his durability isn't something to scuff at, but when his opponents has massive fire-power, it is not surprising for him to be defeated by one or two hits from either.





> Bee unsheathed 7 swords and jumped into battle with Sasuke, attempting to kill him. In what sense is that playing around? Is that _not_ what the Kage will be doing, trying to kill him?
> 
> And by similar, yes, I meant simply that they fight up close.



He still wasn't going all-out. What you're saying here is like saying that Madara was going all-out against the Kages throughout the entire battle. As Madara had the intent to kill them, but never did-so. As for the similarity, I highly disagree, as my previous post shows.




> Agian, you ignored Manda. And you ignored the 20m Starting distance. If it was 50m, aka long range, then maybe this would hold true, but you act as if Mei will reduce visibility to zero before Sasuke can even get close, despite his speed & reflex advantage and the rather short starting distance.



What can Manda really do in this situation? His only usefulness in here is that he could go underground and get some of them out of there. But how would that work? As I have been saying in my previous posts, they do have the necessary knowledge against those two. They won't be acting the second the mist activates. Even if they were able to survive for a short of time and Summon Manda to go underground, they wouldn't be in a great condition and that includes Manda. Which would be their demise [as they can't compete against them fairly without being in a perfect condition from the get-go]. If you think that the Juin's durability is any close to a Susano'o, I don't think I can convince you. Considering that the acid was able to melt it off in a second.

As for the distance; the Mizukage is a middle/long-ranged combatant. So of course she would take distance once the battle begins. It's not like that a shinobi of her calibre would be a novice. And as I mentioned, her reaction feats and speed that was shown against Madara shows that she wouldn't be overwhelmed by a mere shunshin. a linear shunshin is suicidal. It's like jumping into a lava. To be fair though; Deidara, a shinobi that does not prefer to be mobile with his body was able to barely dodge it. I would say that the Mizukage is  than Deidara










> What does proficiency with the mist have to do with seeing in it? Mei doesn't have some special eyes that can see through zero visibility mist that obscures the Sharingan. That's ridiculous.



(_Disclaimer:_ I am not saying that she's as good as Zabuza)

Did you ever think how Silent Killing works? Do you think that Zabuza and the other swordmen has special eyes or something? I'll answer this here; that's not the case. They get used to the mist and use their ears as well as slow movements to kill their opponent before the opponent could realise that they have killed him. That's how it works for the Mizukage as well. The only difference that she supposedly did not focus into that field as much as the Seven Swordmen. What I am trying to get across is that she is more proficient than anyone in this match.




> Semantics. It isn't nearly as fast as Sasuke, so it doesn't make a difference.



I disagree, Katsuyu has the necessary speed to do what it's supposed to do. As the scan I have provided before shows that she isn't as sluggish as you think . . . Ironically. 





> Katsuyu didn't divide until later in the Sannin 3-way fight. I don't see why it would hurry to divide here.It's the same kind of Genjutsu used to control Kurama, which was implied to require a contract seal or something along those lines to break.



...What? Please don't ignore the point that I have said that she divides if her role is support. Which is her rule in this match-up specifically. In the Sannin battle she was fighting. Why would you use this example, even if it is clearly wrong? 

The contract-seal argument is flat-out wrong. Minato did that so Tobi loses the ability to summon the Kyuubi.




> Shinobi coordinating attacks with each other isn't a speed feat. Kakashi can coordinate attacks with 6 gated Gai, and Gai is _massively_ faster.



First of all, that is by no means coordination.  Both of them are fighting other tailed beasts, and not combining their attacks. I_f you check-out the next page, it shows that Gai is already striking the last tailed-beast while Kakashi is fighting the one in the middle._ So how is that coordination? I'll provide a better example in your favour, and that is the Raikage and Darui coordinating their attack to strike Juugo and Sasuke in the same time [_x_]. However, that is difference, as the Raikage had to reduce his speed to match Darui's. They had the time because both Sasuke and Juugo where under Shii's illusion [_x_].

As for the kages: It is different. All of them were going all-out. They were trying everything in their arsenal just to defeat their invincible opponent. So it is illogical to think that the Raikage would reduce his speed. Heck, the Raikage said that he needs even more speed to strike Madara [_x_], which implies that he is not reducing his speed at all. 




> Sasuke could nearly overwhelm Deidara with just speed, and Deidara has a tier gap on Tsunade speed-wise in Kishimoto's Databook.



First of all, Deidara wasn't mentally prepared for Sasuke's immediate assault. Secondly, Tsunade is more proficient when it comes to chakra-control and close quarter combat. The former helps her to increase her speed ridiculously. Which was shown when _Sakura was able to blitz Ino_, who had a tier and half advantage over her, while the latter helps her counter his approach [As you know, Tsunade is a master in that category].




> I'm saying it it will provide a distraction,



Mere shurikens being distraction for the Mizukage? I'm sorry, but the Mizukage's water-release techniques are absurdly powerful and large. Her water-techniques are stronger than _hundred of shinobi's combined_, as the _battle against Madara has shown_. To think that it would take care and considerable time against shurikens is ludicrous. I'd bet that her technique would cover the shurikens as well as Sasuke or anyone in Taka's team. This person has the second best feats when it comes to suiton, if not the best [the first one being Kisame].​

Reply if you want, but this will be my last reply for this thread. Thanks for the debate, as it is fun, and I apologise if I come off as hostile.


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## wooly Eullerex (Feb 3, 2013)

Sasuke eventually wins w/ the help of his crew.

he'll beat mei 1v1 in the field, while the others troll Tsunade & stall her til sauce joins them to finish the deal. manda equalizes katsyuu.


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## Tobirama Uchiha (May 10, 2016)

Sasuke doesn't need any help because he stomps...What Tsunade and Mei can do against Armored Susanoo?Nothing
Easy win for Sasuke


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## Bonly (May 10, 2016)

Wow this is some old school shit right here lol. Wow to think that a few years ago I thought Hebi Sasuke could beat Mei and Tsunade in a 1V1 fight but now I believe the opposite see him losing more times then not against either of the two, man how the times change lol

Reactions: Like 1


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## cctr1 (May 10, 2016)

the nostalgica lol 

OT :either one can fodderstomp the living shit out of him


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## cctr1 (May 10, 2016)

Tobirama Uchiha said:


> Sasuke doesn't need any help because he stomps...What Tsunade and Mei can do against Armored Susanoo?Nothing
> Easy win for Sasuke


 dude , this is hebi sasuke not MS sasuke , he can't use susanoo


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## Veracity (May 10, 2016)

I was about to go off on this thread until I realized it was old

Reactions: Like 2


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## Tobirama Uchiha (May 10, 2016)

cctr1 said:


> dude , this is hebi sasuke not MS sasuke , he can't use susanoo


Oh, my bad...Sasuke would still win but certainly not Easy


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## Rocky (May 10, 2016)

Lol tempted to neg myself for making this thread.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 4 | Winner 2


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## cctr1 (May 10, 2016)

Rocky said:


> Lol tempted to neg myself for making this thread.


LMFAO  , i rep you if i know how


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## Itachі (May 10, 2016)

Lot of Sasuke wank up in this thread lmao


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## Mithos (May 10, 2016)

I nearly had a stroke reading the comments until I realized the thread was made in 2013


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## UchihaX28 (May 10, 2016)

cctr1 said:


> LMFAO  , i rep you if i know how



 Not that it would matter since you're on a new alt who has no rep power.


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## UchihaX28 (May 10, 2016)

Mithos said:


> I nearly had a stroke reading the comments until I realized the thread was made in 2013



 Same. 

 The guy claiming that Deidara could've just dropped C3 on Sasuke made me want to quit life.

 Honestly, it was much worse when people thought Hebi Sasuke would just Shunshin blitz Mei back in the day. Unfortunately, I used to believe that as well.


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## Saru (May 10, 2016)

I really hope no one digs up any of my old threads. 

I don't think this was a stomp thread, though. At least not after Rocky added the rest of Taka to Sasuke's team. One-sided, but not a stomp.


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## Icegaze (May 11, 2016)

Hidden mist won't be problem for Jugo
His DB entry says his CS2 
Gives him super hearing 
Karin is a sensor 
Sasuke snakes sense heat 

Yh hidden mist would be largerly irrelevant 
As for the match I believe the kages take it . 

Tsunade can kill the 3 team members before Mei gets killed by Sasuke 

Jugo dies in a punch once he comes close to tsunade 
Suigetsu gets his nerves scrambled or reverse shosen knocks him out 
Karin dies in a punch . Would be fairly quick for tsunade 

Team hebi simply don't match up to their kage . 

This includes karin and her plot chains


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## UchihaX28 (May 11, 2016)

Icegaze said:


> Hidden mist won't be problem for Jugo
> His DB entry says his CS2
> Gives him super hearing
> Karin is a sensor
> ...



 Does it? I don't see anything hinting towards Jugo having Super Hearing with CS2.


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## cctr1 (May 11, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> Not that it would matter since you're on a new alt who has no rep power.


got that right


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## Icegaze (May 11, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> Does it? I don't see anything hinting towards Jugo having Super Hearing with CS2.



Yes it does . Look at the collection thread Jugo scan page has it saying he got super hearing . 
Will try find it but it ain't something I would make up


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## Finalbeta (May 11, 2016)

I'm afraid Saske loses
Can he handle both of them at the same time?   without even a Susanoo


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## Ryuzaki (May 11, 2016)

Hebi Sasuke is superior in terms of speed, elemental ninjutsu and genjutsu to either one of them individually, however he cannot beat both, if it was one, sure.


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## UchihaX28 (May 11, 2016)

Icegaze said:


> Yes it does . Look at the collection thread Jugo scan page has it saying he got super hearing .
> Will try find it but it ain't something I would make up



 I wasn't calling you out, I was just thinking you may have added something that you thought was there, but wasn't.

 I'm not sure. I checked his DB3 Entry and couldn't find it.


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## Icegaze (May 12, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> I wasn't calling you out, I was just thinking you may have added something that you thought was there, but wasn't.
> 
> I'm not sure. I checked his DB3 Entry and couldn't find it.



DB4 check his entry there 
That's where it was added
@Turrin can you confirm this


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## KiNGPiN (May 15, 2016)

Ends in sex.


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## Bringer (May 15, 2016)

Why does Tobirama Uchiha keep reviving old threads, and why are most of the threads he's reviving Tsunade threads.

Reactions: Like 1


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