# General Grievous vs Kaku



## Fang (Oct 28, 2007)

General Grievous of Clone Wars and EU vs Kaku of the CP9 and One Piece. Both are bloodlusted. Neither have prep on the other's abilities or techniques/power or strength.


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## Slips (Oct 28, 2007)

Kaku 

He turns into a Giraffe while his oppenents stand there for 40 mintues with a  expression


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## Fang (Oct 28, 2007)

General Grievous is capable of moving each of the lightsaber in each hand over 120 times in under a second.


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## Zaru (Oct 28, 2007)

How STRONG is grievious? (Lifting etc) I only know his movie feats and those are LOL


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## Tash (Oct 28, 2007)

Yea I see Grievous taking this, I don't think Kaku would be able to handle so many consecutive strikes.


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## Fang (Oct 28, 2007)

Zaru said:


> How STRONG is grievious? (Lifting etc) I only know his movie feats and those are LOL



This isn't film Grievous. CW Grievous was able to blitz multiple Jedi during the final episode of the first season on Hypori, which include two high tier Council members, Ki Adi Mundi and Shaak Ti. Both who are more skilled then Season One Anakin.

He was able to out run an mag-lev elevator. On Coruscant and routinely blitzes Jedi who have the gift of Force-augumented agility, speed and Pre-Cognition.


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## Protect_The_Butter (Oct 28, 2007)

Are you talking about this Grievous?
[YOUTUBE]http://youtube.com/watch?v=x-8Rx-GqJDM[/YOUTUBE]


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## Limit_Tester (Oct 28, 2007)

Grievous is capable of attacking what? A pitiful 4 times a second per hand as actual sword strikes? If he spins his hands at top speed that number is raised to 20 per second per hand, with no control. Kaku would kill him before he activated his lightsabers.


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## Butō Rengoob (Oct 28, 2007)

_^.......LOL!!! No, just no, he can attack 120 times a second....per hand!_


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## Fang (Oct 28, 2007)

Limit_Tester said:


> Grievous is capable of attacking what? A pitiful 4 times a second per hand as actual sword strikes? If he spins his hands at top speed that number is raised to 20 per second per hand, with no control. Kaku would kill him before he activated his lightsabers.



120 strikes in under a second with each of his four arms as stated in the ROTS novel. His reaction speed is borderline to the speed of light and his armor is the same used for heavy starfighters.


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## Fulong (Oct 28, 2007)

Yes, Are normal steel sword are going to do anything against a sword that literally cut almost anything? no, this is a rapestomp at least.


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## Coaxmetal (Oct 28, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> 120 strikes in under a second with each of his four arms as stated in the ROTS novel. *His reaction speed is borderline to the speed of light* and his armor is the same used for heavy starfighters.



Hold on a second, that was said in the novel? 
Well that is f*%king stupid if it did.

If I'm going by what Grievous has shown in the animated series, I have to go with Kaku. Kaku has a much higher top speed, has ranged attacks "Storm Leg", and a ridiculous dodge ability.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Oct 28, 2007)

Coaxmetal said:


> Hold on a second, that was said in the novel?
> Well that is f*%king stupid if it did.



Yes, it is said in the novel.  Grievous' bodyguards have also been stated to have near-lightspeed reflexes, which is how they can fight against Jedi in melee and not get owned.


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## Fang (Oct 28, 2007)

Coaxmetal said:


> Hold on a second, that was said in the novel?
> Well that is f*%king stupid if it did.
> 
> If I'm going by what Grievous has shown in the animated series, I have to go with Kaku. Kaku has a much higher top speed, has ranged attacks "Storm Leg", and a ridiculous dodge ability.



Why is it to people who are not fans of EU, that everything is stupid? This is how powerful the Warverse is.  Stover is one of the best science fiction writers in the world.

His reaction speed was already superhuman as a Khaleesh, with cybernetic enhancements to his body mind and nervous system, he is quite insane.


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## Limit_Tester (Oct 28, 2007)

This is the information I was going on:
Apoptygma Berzerk - Welcome To Earth
If you can provide evidence to suggest differently, I'll re-examine my argument. Until then, I can safely say that Kaku owns Grievous pretty damn badly.


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## Coaxmetal (Oct 28, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> Why is it to people who are not fans of EU, that everything is stupid? This is how powerful the Warverse is.  Stover is one of the best science fiction writers in the world.
> 
> His reaction speed was already superhuman as a Khaleesh, with cybernetic enhancements to his body mind and nervous system, he is quite insane.



I like Extended Universe stuff: Thrawn, some of the comics, and of course the videogames.

BUT, LIGHTSPEED REFLEXES!?!?! That is taking things to far.

At that level, his mere movement at that speed would cause that portion of his body that he is moving to gain infinite mass and would be damaging beyond belief. The only way I could see this happening is if he somehow phases into hyperspace when he moves at this speed. 

I'm sorry, but that level of reaction in the Star Wars universe, even the extend universe, just seems absolutely ridiculous.


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## Fang (Oct 28, 2007)

Coaxmetal said:


> I like Extended Universe stuff: Thrawn, some of the comics, and of course the videogames.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## potential (Oct 28, 2007)

GEneral Grievious speedblitzes Kaku at the very start of the fight. I mean seriously this is an epic rapestomp.


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## Fang (Oct 28, 2007)

Limit_Tester said:


> This is the information I was going on:
> [a.f.k.] Clannad - 01.avi
> If you can provide evidence to suggest differently, I'll re-examine my argument. Until then, I can safely say that Kaku owns Grievous pretty damn badly.



ROTS novel disagrees with LoE.


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## Limit_Tester (Oct 28, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> ROTS novel disagrees with LoE.



You might want to re-check your information. It's possible you just mis-read it.

The Consumerist


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## Fang (Oct 28, 2007)

My information stems from CW, the rest of EU and the ROTS novel. Not a fansite.


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## Limit_Tester (Oct 28, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> My information stems from CW, the rest of EU and the ROTS novel. Not a fansite.



Then feel free to show me different information.


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## Clouds-Are-Nice (Oct 28, 2007)

Limit_Tester said:


> Then feel free to show me different information.



I looked into the RotS novel and I found out you were right (mostly); in the RotS novel the only detailed mention of Grievous' attack speed is 20 strikes per second.



			
				Star Wars Episode III Novelization pg.169 (by Matthew Stover) said:
			
		

> After all, he had often walked unscathed through hornet-swarms of blasterfire, defended only by the Force's direction of his blade; countering twelve blows per second was only difficult, not impossible. His blade wove an intricate web of angles and curves, never truly fast but always just fast enough, each motion of his lightsaber subtly interfering with three or four or eight of the general's strikes, the rest sizzling past him, his precise, minimal shifts of weight and stance slipping them by centimeters.
> 
> Grievous, snarling fury, ramped up the intensity and velocity of his attacks—sixteen per second, eighteen—until finally, at twenty strikes per second, he overloaded Obi-Wan's defense. So Obi-Wan used his defense to attack. A subtle shift in the angle of a single parry brought Obi-Wan's blade in contact not with the blade of the oncoming lightsaber, but with the handgrip.
> 
> —slice—


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## Limit_Tester (Oct 29, 2007)

Clouds-Are-Nice said:


> I looked into the RotS novel and I found out you were right (mostly); in the RotS novel the only detailed mention of Grievous' attack speed is 20 strikes per second.



Is there any mention of how many lightsabers are out at that point? Or if he is spinning them? Thanks in advance...


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## Clouds-Are-Nice (Oct 29, 2007)

Limit_Tester said:


> Is there any mention of how many lightsabers are out at that point? Or if he is spinning them? Thanks in advance...



He's wielding four at once and isn't spinning them.  Hope that helps. ^^



			
				Star Wars Episode III Novelization pg.169 (by Matthew Stover) said:
			
		

> The electrodrivers powering Grievous's mechanical arms let each of the four attack thrice in a single second; integrated by combat algorithms in the bio-droid's electronic network of peripheral processors, each of the twelve strikes per second came from a different angle with different speed and intensity, an unpredictably broken rhythm of slashes, chops, and stabs of which every single one could take Obi-Wan's life. Not one touched him.


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## Limit_Tester (Oct 29, 2007)

Clouds-Are-Nice said:


> He's wielding four at once and isn't spinning them.  Hope that helps. ^^



So Spectre was right on target then. Thanks for the text snip again.


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## Endless Mike (Oct 29, 2007)

Grievous wins easily. How can Kaku hurt him? His armor is made of the same stuff used to shield starfighters, and can easily tank kiloton - level explosions. He was only hurt by Mace using TK to attack him internally, and then Obi-Wan slicing through him with his lightsaber (which will cut through nearly any material).

He could take Enel's Raigoh and be completely unharmed.


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## Fulong (Oct 29, 2007)

Endless Mike said:


> Grievous wins easily. How can Kaku hurt him? His armor is made of the same stuff used to shield starfighters, and can easily tank kiloton - level explosions. He was only hurt by Mace using TK to attack him internally, and then Obi-Wan slicing through him with his lightsaber (which will cut through nearly any material).
> 
> He could take Enel's Raigoh and be completely unharmed.



That why I said that you either give Kaku some lightsabers, or this is going to be some rapestomp.


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## Limit_Tester (Oct 29, 2007)

Endless Mike said:


> Grievous wins easily. How can Kaku hurt him? His armor is made of the same stuff used to shield starfighters, and can easily tank kiloton - level explosions. He was only hurt by Mace using TK to attack him internally, and then Obi-Wan slicing through him with his lightsaber (which will cut through nearly any material).
> 
> He could take Enel's Raigoh and be completely unharmed.



Kaku is so much ridiculously faster than Grievous that he can do whatever he wants in the fight. He can start by poking Grievous' eyes out and showering him with kicks that cut steel. If that doesn't work he can start using Rankyaku Amanedachi, which is probably stronger than Lucci's Rankyaku Gaichou, an attack that went through *10 meters of steel*. The idea that Grievous can tank kiloton level explosions is pure fan fiction. He has an incredibly thin layer of duranium armor, which even in the quantity normally alloted to fighters does not "easily tank kiloton - level explosions." In the worst case scenario, Kaku takes Grievous' lightsabers and kills him with them. Or after poking his eyes out, Kaku can liquefy his brain through the eye sockets via rankyaku. Grievous is so physically outclassed in this fight that it boggles the mind. Grievous has literally no chance of killing Kaku because even if Grievous hit him with a lightsaber (and that would only happen if Kaku tanked with tekkai... not his primary defense), Kaku would move because the saber did any real damage.


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## Endless Mike (Oct 29, 2007)

Limit_Tester said:


> Kaku is so much ridiculously faster than Grievous that he can do whatever he wants in the fight.



Bullshit. Grievous' reflexes were enough to defeat Jedi Knights despite their precognition advantage. Even a Jedi Padawan can run over 60 mph (TPM) easily. He can strike over 20 times per second with each arm, and processes his reflexes at lightspeed.



> He can start by poking Grievous' eyes out and showering him with kicks that cut steel. If that doesn't work he can start using Rankyaku Amanedachi, which is probably stronger than Lucci's Rankyaku Gaichou, an attack that went through *10 meters of steel*.



OP Steel <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< SW fighter armor

Can OP steel shrug off kiloton - level laser blasts?



> The idea that Grievous can tank kiloton level explosions is pure fan fiction. He has an incredibly thin layer of duranium armor, which even in the quantity normally alloted to fighters does not "easily tank kiloton - level explosions."



Then how do Starfighters survive such hits with their shields down?



> In the worst case scenario, Kaku takes Grievous' lightsabers and kills him with them. Or after poking his eyes out, Kaku can liquefy his brain through the eye sockets via rankyaku. Grievous is so physically outclassed in this fight that it boggles the mind. Grievous has literally no chance of killing Kaku because even if Grievous hit him with a lightsaber (and that would only happen if Kaku tanked with tekkai... not his primary defense), Kaku would move because the saber did any real damage.



I'd like to see some evidence that Kaku can react at lightspeed and attack 80 times per second.


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## Limit_Tester (Oct 29, 2007)

Endless Mike said:


> Bullshit. Grievous' reflexes were enough to defeat Jedi Knights despite their precognition advantage. Even a Jedi Padawan can run over 60 mph (TPM) easily. He can strike over 20 times per second with each arm, and processes his reflexes at lightspeed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Grievous' reflexes are about peak human. If you scroll up just a bit in the thread you can see he can about 3 times a second per arm. That's great and all, but Kaku has already shown the ability to perfectly counter Zoro, who can attack *hundreds* of times _per_ second _per_ sword. Hmmm.... 1 less sword and hundred(s) of times faster. Whether or not Grievous has lightspeed computing power, which I find somewhat unlikely, is essentially meaningless for this fight. There's no point if his body can't come within a neglible fraction of his alleged computing speed. 

The power of attacks that a shieldless starfight can take, is questionable. I'm really hoping you aren't using the numbers from SD.net. If possible, I would like to find those numbers Vynjira produced in a SW vs. ST thread a while back, but I haven't had any luck yet. But, even assuming a starfighter can survive a kiloton level explosion, Grievous would only have a fraction of the armor on a starfighter. An attack that can cut through 10 meters of steel would have at least an effect.

But, even if Kaku can't cut the armor, it doesn't matter. I already listed two ways for him to win in the previous post.


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## Endless Mike (Oct 29, 2007)

And those numbers come from where, exactly?


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## Crimson Dragoon (Oct 29, 2007)

According to the novelizations, Grievous has reflexes bordering on lightspeed.  It's how he overcomes Jedi precognition.  He also has some adaptive system which he used to copy Mace's Vaapad style by finding some sort of algorithmic pattern.


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## Morpheus (Oct 29, 2007)

Protect_The_Butter said:


> Are you talking about this Grievous?


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## Rice Ball (Oct 29, 2007)

A good unbias respect thread needs to be made for some starwars feats. Alot of the 'information' braught to this thread was really exaggerated and has been proved wrong.


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## Fang (Oct 29, 2007)

Limit_Tester said:


> The power of attacks that a shieldless starfight can take, is questionable. I'm really hoping you aren't using the numbers from SD.net. If possible, I would like to find those numbers Vynjira produced in a SW vs. ST thread a while back, but I haven't had any luck yet. But, even assuming a starfighter can survive a kiloton level explosion, Grievous would only have a fraction of the armor on a starfighter. An attack that can cut through 10 meters of steel would have at least an effect.



Vynjira is completely biased against Star Wars.


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## KLoWn (Oct 29, 2007)

Protect_The_Butter said:


> Are you talking about this Grievous?
> [YOUTUBE]http://youtube.com/watch?v=x-8Rx-GqJDM[/YOUTUBE]


Wow, that amv seriously made me wanna see that show, anyone know where i can get it?


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## shadowfoxtail (Oct 29, 2007)

No more Starwar verse threads.....god damn.


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## Limit_Tester (Oct 29, 2007)

Endless Mike said:


> And those numbers come from where, exactly?



Dodging bullets at point blank. Cutting 7 cannonballs in half in a fraction of a second. And then tripling that speed. 

@Shiroi Kiba
And that matters why exactly? The site she provided seemed very accurate.

@Crimson Dragoon
According to the novels he can attack 3 times a second per arm. Apparently you don't actually need lightspeed reflexes to beat a jedi.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Oct 29, 2007)

You're talking about Labyrinth of Evil, right?  The ROTS novel has Grievous performing 20 strikes per second with each arm.  He never needed to do that in LoE since he faced shitty Jedi for the most part.  The only one to challenge him was Mace Windu.

And I never said lightspeed reflexes were needed to take down Jedi.  Psychological warfare could be used to mess up their precog(HK-47 and Grievous both did this.) and the good old wall of firepower works too.  Lightspeed reflexes helps though.


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## Fang (Oct 29, 2007)

How large are the Acclimator-Class Destroyers? He went from the front of it to disappearing and appearing behind the Jedi in Clone Wars.


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## Limit_Tester (Oct 29, 2007)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> You're talking about Labyrinth of Evil, right?  The ROTS novel has Grievous performing 20 strikes per second with each arm.  He never needed to do that in LoE since he faced shitty Jedi for the most part.  The only one to challenge him was Mace Windu.
> 
> And I never said lightspeed reflexes were needed to take down Jedi.  Psychological warfare could be used to mess up their precog(HK-47 and Grievous both did this.) and the good old wall of firepower works too.  Lightspeed reflexes helps though.



Read the top of the second page to find out why that is wrong.


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## Sea Pirate (Oct 29, 2007)

Grievous takes this easily.
Altough Kaku can give him a good battle.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Oct 29, 2007)

Limit_Tester said:


> Read the top of the second page to find out why that is wrong.



Oh, I see.  Meh, whatever.


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## Limit_Tester (Oct 29, 2007)

Guess this thread is done...


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## Fang (Oct 29, 2007)

Kaku can cut Duranium?


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## Limit_Tester (Oct 29, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> Kaku can cut Duranium?



It's quite possible, unless it's over 10,000 times stronger than steel. Not that Kaku needs to. Poke out Grievous' eyes and liquefy his brain or just jack his lightsabers and kill him with them.


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## Fang (Oct 29, 2007)

Limit_Tester said:


> It's quite possible, unless it's over 10,000 times stronger than steel. Not that Kaku needs to. Poke out Grievous' eyes and liquefy his brain or just jack his lightsabers and kill him with them.



General Grievous eyes were modified to survive in the vacuum in space. The melting point of Duranium can resist glancing blows from lightsabers.

So are you implying that Kaku's Rankicks are hotter then lightsabers?


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## Limit_Tester (Oct 29, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> General Grievous eyes were modified to survive in the vacuum in space. The melting point of Duranium can resist glancing blows from lightsabers.
> 
> So are you implying that Kaku's Rankicks are hotter then lightsabers?



Melting point is really pretty un-related to tensile strength. And I'm not implying anything. I'm saying that an attack that can go through 10 meters of steel can go through at .001 meters of duranium. And considering Obi Wan Kenobi can bend duranium, I'm fairly confident in Kaku's chances. And Grievous' eyes are not withstanding a shigan from Kaku.


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## Sea Pirate (Oct 29, 2007)

> Obi Wan Kenobi can bend duranium, I'm fairly confident in Kaku's chances.


Except that Kenobi used force. It was stated in ROTS novel.


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## Fang (Oct 29, 2007)

Limit_Tester said:


> Melting point is really pretty un-related to tensile strength. And I'm not implying anything. I'm saying that an attack that can go through 10 meters of steel can go through at .001 meters of duranium. And considering Obi Wan Kenobi can bend duranium, I'm fairly confident in Kaku's chances. And Grievous' eyes are not withstanding a shigan from Kaku.



Are you going by the film or the novelization of ROTS? Still, 120 strikes a second from Grievous with lightspeed like reflexes would prove a problem for Kaku. Secondly when I get home, I'll quote some statements from the novel and see if that won't change your mind.

Thirdly, duranium is a lot more durable then steel.


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## Limit_Tester (Oct 29, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> Are you going by the film or the novelization of ROTS? Still, 120 strikes a second from Grievous with lightspeed like reflexes would prove a problem for Kaku. Secondly when I get home, I'll quote some statements from the novel and see if that won't change your mind.
> 
> Thirdly, duranium is a lot more durable then steel.



I'm still going by the novelization of ROTS, which states 3 strikes a second per arm. Just check the top of the 2nd page of this thread.... Thirdly, is duranium a thousand times stronger than steel? Because if it isn't, Kaku is going to kill him with rankyaku.

@Sea Pirate
And that matters.... why exactly? Kaku is stronger than Zoro. We are taking thousands of tons of force here.


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## Fang (Oct 29, 2007)

Limit_Tester said:


> I'm still going by the novelization of ROTS, which states 3 strikes a second per arm. Just check the top of the 2nd page of this thread.... Thirdly, is duranium a thousand times stronger than steel? Because if it isn't, Kaku is going to kill him with rankyaku.



All six limbs = 20 strikes per second. LoE only showed 3 strikes per second against crappy ass Jedi barring Windu.


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## Limit_Tester (Oct 29, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> All six limbs = 20 strikes per second. LoE only showed 3 strikes per second against crappy ass Jedi barring Windu.



I'm talking about ROTS the novelization. Please actually read the top of the 2nd page on this thread.


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## Fang (Oct 29, 2007)

It was each arm that was striking at 20 times a second not all of them.


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## Limit_Tester (Oct 29, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> It was each arm that was striking at 20 times a second not all of them.



I'm seeing 3 per arm and Kenobi being overwhelmed by 20 strikes total.


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## Fang (Oct 29, 2007)

And I am holding the book in my hands.



			
				Page 313-Revenge of the Sith said:
			
		

> The general's wide-spread arms now split along their lengths, dividing in half--even his hands split in half--Now he had four arms. And four hands.
> 
> And each hand took a lightsaber at his cloak dropped to the floor. They snarled to life and Grievous spun all four of them in a flourishing velocity so fast and so seamlessly that he seemed to stand within a pulsing sphere of ble and green energy.





			
				Page 319-Revenge of the Sith said:
			
		

> The electrodrivers powering Grievous's mechanical arms let each of the four attack thrice in a single second; integrated by combat algorithms in the bio-droid's electronic network of peripheral processors, each of the twleve strikes per second came from a different angle with different speed and intensity, and unpredictably broken rhythm of slashes, chops, and stabs of which every single one could take Obi-Wan's life.





			
				Page 319 continued-Revenge of the Sith said:
			
		

> Grievous, snarling fury, ramped up the intensity and velocity of his attacks--sixteen per second, eighteen--until finally, at twenty strikes per second, he overloaded Obi-Wan's defense.



That was referring to the strikes from each individual hand. Twenty times six limbs = 120 strikes per second. That isn't with spinning them either.


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## Fang (Oct 29, 2007)

Also Limit Tester, Kaku can break or slice this?



			
				Page 327-Revenge of the Sith said:
			
		

> He met the Grievous chest-to-chest, his upraisedhand blocking the general's wrist; Grievous snarled something incoherent and bore down on the Jedi Master's block with all his weight, driving the blade closer and closer to Obi-Wan's face---





			
				Page 327-Revenge of the Sith said:
			
		

> But Obi-Wan's arm had the Force to give it strength, and the general's arm only had the innate crystalline intermolecular structure of duranium alloy. Grievous's forearm bent like a cheap spoon.



That duranium alloy is equal to if not superior to the firepower that starfighters in the twilight of the Old Republic's fleet.



			
				page 96-Revenge of the Sith said:
			
		

> This is General Grievous. Durasteel. Ceramic armorplast-plated duranium. Electrodrivers and crystal circuitry. Within them: the remnants of a living being. He doesn't breathe. He doesn't eat. He cannot laugh and he does not cry.





			
				page 96-Revenge of the Sith said:
			
		

> He is built to dominate. The ceramic armorplat-plates proteching limbs and torso and face can stop a *burst from a starfighter's laser cannons.* Those indestructible arms are ten times stronger than a human, and move with the blurring speed of electronic reflexes.


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## Clouds-Are-Nice (Oct 29, 2007)

This is the fight sequence without breaks.  It's pretty clear it's talking about his total number of attacks.



			
				Star Wars Episode III Novelization pg.169 (by Matthew Stover) said:
			
		

> "Not a master. The master," Mace had said. "Be who you are, and Grievous will never defeat you."
> 
> So now, facing the tornado of annihilating energy that is Grievous's attack, Obi-Wan simply is who he is.
> 
> ...


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## Fang (Oct 29, 2007)

I don't see how that makes a difference, the number of strikes was referring to each limb he possed. It's pretty damn obvious. His speed at maximum without spinning is 120 strikes per second. Six Limbs = 120 strikes per second. Unless you want to suggest he couldn't use his legs and then its 30 strikes per second per arm.


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## superattackpea (Oct 30, 2007)

my problem with the whole 120 strikes, which i still have yet to see any proof of, is he is only only capible of it when he is doing his rotatating trick. this isnt neccisarrily the best form of for sword fighting, as obi-wan deminstrated cutting his hands off.

another question i would like to bring up is weather or not the cp9 ability to absorb damage would work on a light saber, luffy did give lucci quite a pounding capible of doing far more kenetic damage then a jedi.


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## Clouds-Are-Nice (Oct 30, 2007)

superattackpea said:


> another question i would like to bring up is weather or not the cp9 ability to absorb damage would work on a light saber, luffy did give lucci quite a pounding capible of doing far more kenetic damage then a jedi.



Lightsabers primarily cause heat\energy damage so it's probably not possible to shield against them using something that blocks only kinetic damage I think.


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## superattackpea (Oct 30, 2007)

yeah wasn't sure on to just what extent it fortified your defence.

on another note how much does a light-saber wiegh?


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## Clouds-Are-Nice (Oct 30, 2007)

superattackpea said:


> yeah wasn't sure on to just what extent it fortified your defence.
> 
> on another note how much does a light-saber wiegh?



The hilt varies, usually several kg.  The blade of the lightsaber itself though weighs nothing I think.

Edit:
I'm not sure how far Tekkai goes myself, you'd be better off asking a One Piece expert about them.


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## superattackpea (Oct 30, 2007)

the blade itself is wieghtless, and with the hilt only at about 5-7 pounds (i think i converted that right) is three strikes a second even that impressive. i just picked up an eight pound wieght, somthing not offering a very good grip for what i was attempting, and was able to make at least two distinctive diffrent motions within a second. if someone were to be trained to use a light saber i dont see anywere from 4-5 strikes in a second being anything unreasonable. and that would just aply to a normal human, the jedi can also use the force to aid them.


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## Clouds-Are-Nice (Oct 30, 2007)

superattackpea said:


> the blade itself is wieghtless, and with the hilt only at about 5-7 pounds (i think i converted that right) is three strikes a second even that impressive. i just picked up an eight pound wieght, somthing not offering a very good grip for what i was attempting, and was able to make at least two distinctive diffrent motions within a second. if someone were to be trained to use a light saber i dont see anywere from 4-5 strikes in a second being anything unreasonable. and that would just aply to a normal human, the jedi can also use the force to aid them.



Yeah, I used to think that three strikes a second was really fast for sabers, but when they weigh nothing it wouldn't be unusual for them to be wielded faster.  I can make about three arm motions myself a second without anything in my hand.


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## Fang (Oct 30, 2007)

His maximum striking speed without spinning is twenty blades per second per hand, not three.


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## Limit_Tester (Oct 30, 2007)

Kiba.. you have yet to post anything that says 120 strikes. The only actual information presented in this thread puts Grievous at 3 strikes per arm, with the ability to increase that number to 5 per arm with some apparent effort. And I don't really care that his armor can take a laser from a starfighter. You have yet to prove that it can easily tank something that cuts through 10 meters of steel. 

And even if he can't cut him, which is incredibly unlikely, Kaku can kill him via his eyes. Or he can just take Grievous' lightsabers and kill him with them. You just aren't getting this. Grievous can attack at a pitiful 5 times a second per arm. That means in terms of reflexes he is maybe a bit over peak human. Kaku has hypersonic reflexes. That means he is hundreds of times faster than peak human. Grievous is 10 times stronger than human. Kaku is hundreds if not thousands of times stronger than human. Please stop trying to argue this battle. It is and never was a good match-up. You were making the match on possibly bad information (although even with those numbers Kaku still would beat him), which has since been proven wrong.


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## WILD CARD (Oct 30, 2007)

Limit_Tester said:


> Kiba.. you have yet to post anything that says 120 strikes. The only actual information presented in this thread puts Grievous at 3 strikes per arm, with the ability to increase that number to 5 per arm with some apparent effort. And I don't really care that his armor can take a laser from a starfighter. You have yet to prove that it can easily tank something that cuts through 10 meters of steel.
> 
> And even if he can't cut him, which is incredibly unlikely, Kaku can kill him via his eyes. Or he can just take Grievous' lightsabers and kill him with them. You just aren't getting this. Grievous can attack at a pitiful 5 times a second per arm. That means in terms of reflexes he is maybe a bit over peak human. Kaku has hypersonic reflexes. That means he is hundreds of times faster than peak human. Grievous is 10 times stronger than human. Kaku is hundreds if not thousands of times stronger than human. Please stop trying to argue this battle. It is and never was a good match-up. You were making the match on possibly bad information (although even with those numbers Kaku still would beat him), which has since been proven wrong.



To carry a lightsaber is a reflection of confidence, dexterity, and attunement to the Force. Although use of the lightsaber is not strictly reserved to Jedi (see General Grievous), the only others widely known of being capable of handling the difficult weapon are the Sith. I highly doubt Kaku is capable of wielding a light saber.


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## Limit_Tester (Oct 30, 2007)

WILD CARD said:


> To carry a lightsaber is a reflection of confidence, dexterity, and attunement to the Force. Although use of the lightsaber is not strictly reserved to Jedi (see General Grievous), the only others widely known of being capable of handling the difficult weapon are the Sith. I highly doubt Kaku is capable of wielding a light saber.



I think Kaku is smart enough to press the little button to turn it on.


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## Fang (Oct 30, 2007)

Kaku is use to katanas, blades, ect. Lightsabers only have weight in the hilt. The blade itself does not. He is likely going to cut off his arm.


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## Limit_Tester (Oct 30, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> Kaku is use to katanas, blades, ect. Lightsabers only have weight in the hilt. The blade itself does not. He is likely going to cut off his arm.



Why didn't I think of that?


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## Blue (Oct 30, 2007)

I think he means without cutting himself, although I'd say it's unlikely that Kaku would. Wielding any sword means hitting yourself eventually, but a competent swordsman (which Kaku surely is) would do it once every very long while.


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## Fang (Oct 30, 2007)

I'm being serious.

Edit: Talented duelists who are use to using vibroblades have killed themselves or dismembered their own arms because of the foreign nature that a lightsaber operates on.

There is absolutely no weight in the blade, just the hilt.


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## Limit_Tester (Oct 30, 2007)

And that is the sad part.


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## Blue (Oct 30, 2007)

I can switch between wooden blades (which are ~2lbs) and a metal blade (~8lbs) without hitting myself now (this wasn't always the case).

Of course you'll argue that a weightless blade makes all the difference, but I submit to you it would not.


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## Fang (Oct 30, 2007)

Okay. Because Kaku has handled blades that are weightless.


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## Limit_Tester (Oct 30, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> Okay. Because Kaku has handled blades that are weightless.



Just let this thread die. The debate was settled on the second page. The argument is just inane at this point.


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## Fang (Oct 30, 2007)

Kaku's kicks are nowhere near as powerful as the firepower that Starfighters in the Republic era/Rise of Empire era fleet. That's just silly. Starfighters can fire a burst through builds and outright destroy them.


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## Blue (Oct 30, 2007)

Scan of Enis Lobby bisected plz


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## Chocochip (Oct 30, 2007)

Limit_Tester said:


> I think Kaku is smart enough to press the little button to turn it on.



I don't think lightsabers work like that. I might be wrong though. Something about Luke having to switch from blue to red due to his spirit being weird.


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## Fang (Oct 31, 2007)

Still doesn't matter, he's kicks aren't more powerful then the fire power a ARC-170 heavy starfighter cannon supports against Grievous armors.

Barring his eyes of course.


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## Blue (Oct 31, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> Still doesn't matter, he's kicks aren't more powerful then the fire power a ARC-170 heavy starfighter cannon supports against Grievous armors.
> 
> Barring his eyes of course.



Pray tell, how powerful is the firepower an ARC-170 Heavy Starfighter Cannon supports?


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## Fang (Oct 31, 2007)

Enough to out right destroy signifigant portions of skyscrappers on Coruscant and completely tear apart builds reinforced with the same materials used in the construction of Star Destroyers ie Neutronium, Duranium, durasteel and duracrete.


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## Limit_Tester (Oct 31, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> Enough to out right destroy signifigant portions of skyscrappers on Coruscant and completely tear apart builds reinforced with the same materials used in the construction of Star Destroyers ie Neutronium, Duranium, durasteel and duracrete.



Your description of Grievous' durability was that of being able to take a hit from a starfighter. Pretty vague really. Is there anything more concrete for his durability feats? And would you mind actually quoting from the source? No offense, but your info thus far has been somewhat inaccurate...


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## Fang (Oct 31, 2007)

The only people saying that are you. He took a Force Push from Shaak Ti, one of the most powerful Jedi Masters in the Old Jedi Order that was able to completely fuck up the durasteel wall behind him and slam him into it.

Roron Corobb, a Jedi Master protecting Palpatine before his capture, fought Grievous. During the Battle of Coruscant, after they had already fled Palpatine's apartment in 500 Republica, he is an Ithorian. They have two mouths, his roar is more before then most Force Pushes and Crushes.

That was from the season finale episode in Volume 2 that followed up in ROTS from CW.

He was tried to use his Force Roar on Grievous, which merely slowed him down, despite the fact that it was ripping apart and shattering durasteel and duracrete sheets from the ground. 

In the ROTS novel, Obi-Wan had to gather superhuman strength from the Force to open his armor plated chest.

LoE, Grievous allowed a Jedi to get a blow on him with his saber to leave him with a measure of dignity before he killed him.


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## Superrazien (Oct 31, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> Why is it to people who are not fans of EU, that everything is stupid? This is how powerful the Warverse is.  Stover is one of the best science fiction writers in the world.
> 
> His reaction speed was already superhuman as a Khaleesh, with cybernetic enhancements to his body mind and nervous system, he is quite insane.



Because if it is anything between the time of episode 1-6 and they stupid crap light borderline speed of light, it totally contradicts the movies which is the real canon.


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## Fang (Oct 31, 2007)

Don't try to debate me on Star Wars Canon.

EU + Films = Continuity. Lucas has already approved of it through Leland Chee. Stop hating.


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## Superrazien (Oct 31, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> Don't try to debate me on Star Wars Canon.
> 
> EU + Films = Continuity. Lucas has already approved of it through Leland Chee. Stop hating.



So if the EU contradicts the films its ok? Like near speed of light movements, or Grievous armor being so dam strong, but Obi-Wan bent it with his hands. Going by that I guess we can say the DBZ movies can be considered Canon.


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## Fang (Oct 31, 2007)

Jesus Christ. I never said Grievous could move FTL, his reaction time is that of lightspeed because of the electronic currents that run around the slave chips and processors in his head.

And Obi-Wan had to use the Force to pry open his armor to give him super human strength.


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## Superrazien (Oct 31, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> Jesus Christ. I never said Grievous could move FTL, his reaction time is that of lightspeed because of the electronic currents that run around the slave chips and processors in his head.
> 
> And Obi-Wan had to use the Force to pry open his armor to give him super human strength.



Yeah even if his reaction time is suppose to be lightspeed it is still like I said, contradicting the movie. Also even if Obi-Wan gained Super Human strength, what is that suppose to mean, his armor can tank lasers but not with stand super human strength. Because if there is anything Kaku has on Grievous and Obi-Wan, is strength. Kaku is hundreds probably thousands of times stronger than the standard Marine, who is like 10 times stronger than the average human, thats Kaku without DF enhancement.


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## Fang (Oct 31, 2007)

You haven't paid attention to anything I've said so I'll leave it at that.


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## Suzumebachi (Oct 31, 2007)

WILD CARD said:


> To carry a lightsaber is a reflection of confidence, dexterity, and attunement to the Force. Although use of the lightsaber is not strictly reserved to Jedi (see General Grievous), the only others widely known of being capable of handling the difficult weapon are the Sith. I highly doubt Kaku is capable of wielding a light saber.


 
Except Grievous is not Force sensitive...at all.


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## Fang (Oct 31, 2007)

Except that Grievous was trained by Dooku, who is.


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## Blue (Oct 31, 2007)

So you admit it's possible for someone unadept with the force to wield it.

Good, that point is settled.


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## Fang (Oct 31, 2007)

Blue said:


> So you admit it's possible for someone unadept with the force to wield it.
> 
> Good, that point is settled.



The only person that has effiecietly enough to kill off Jedi/Dark Jedi was a guy trained by one of the most powerful Sith in their History.

I'm sure Kaku doesn't have an ounce of midicholorian in him.


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## Suzumebachi (Oct 31, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> The only person that has effiecietly enough to kill off Jedi/Dark Jedi was a guy trained by one of the most powerful Sith in their History.
> 
> I'm sure Kaku doesn't have an ounce of midicholorian in him.


 
Grievous has even less than that.


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## Fang (Oct 31, 2007)

Grievous had the blood transfusion from Sifo-Dyas.


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## Blue (Oct 31, 2007)

Which failed.


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## Fang (Oct 31, 2007)

To give him powers, he still gained a degree of Force Sensitivity. You don't know anything about Star Wars EU Blue, stop trying to attempt to.


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## Suzumebachi (Oct 31, 2007)

And he still wasn't Force sensitive.

Not that it matters in fighting a jedi or wielding a lightsaber.


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## Superrazien (Oct 31, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> You haven't paid attention to anything I've said so I'll leave it at that.



..... I Haven't? So then all that talk you said about Grievous having close to or lightspeed reaction time, and Obi-Wan using Superhuman strength to open up Grievous armor thatcan supposedly tank laser shots, and me saying how his light speed reaction contradicts the movie, and that Kaku is physically stronger than Obi-Wan, was me not paying attention? Did I miss something?

I know you say Lucas says so and so is canon but if it still contradicts the movies it isn't or shouldn't be considered canon. Also Lucas just has writers do his shit now he probably doesn't know whats even going on the EU just says its canon so people will buy it.


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## Fang (Oct 31, 2007)

Suzumebachi said:


> And he still wasn't Force sensitive.
> 
> Not that it matters in fighting a jedi or wielding a lightsaber.



He has lightspeed reaction speeds which govern his reflexes, he was directly trained by Count Dooku. Any of this sinking in?


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## Suzumebachi (Oct 31, 2007)

Lightspeed reactions? He sure does little fella.

And what does Dooku have to with this? Grievous is not Dooku. Its like saying I can beat Freeza after training with Goku.


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## Fang (Oct 31, 2007)

How many people do you know of that have fought the Jedi or Sith with lightsabers without training or the Force in Star Wars?

He has a computer in his brain that gifts him analytical algorthims to mimic, copy and create techniques to fight the Jedi.


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## Suzumebachi (Oct 31, 2007)

I can name a few clone troopers that can kill Jedi.


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## Fang (Oct 31, 2007)

With the element of surprise, and no danger sense because of the lack of emotion from the CT becacuse their programmed, that's true.


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## Suzumebachi (Oct 31, 2007)

Excuses excuses. 

lol element of surprise. That shouldn't matter. These dudes trained by Yoda. They should have lightspeed reactions


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## Fang (Oct 31, 2007)

Now your just trolling, Suzu. Most those killed weren't high tier or even mid tier Force users. And a lot of them survived the inital purges.


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## Blue (Oct 31, 2007)

There is absolutely no reason why Kaku can't wreck this guy utterly. He's massively faster, massively stronger, and Greve's armor, which might possibly deflect a starfighter bolt, won't deflect two of them. Rankyaku is easily as strong or stronger.


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## Fang (Oct 31, 2007)

> There is absolutely no reason why Kaku can't wreck this guy utterly. He's massively faster, massively stronger, and Greve's armor, which might possibly deflect a starfighter bolt, won't deflect two of them. Rankyaku is easily as strong or stronger.



A burst from an ARC starfighter is usually three or four blasts, not one or two. He has tanked attacks that have ripped apart steel. Wee. You still have no idea of what your talking about. Go away.


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## superattackpea (Oct 31, 2007)

in order for grevious to strike 120 times per second he must wield lightsabers with his feet, for that to happen he has leap into the air, so if kaku gets the high ground hes fukked.


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## Endless Mike (Oct 31, 2007)

Kaku can't hurt Grievous. This should have been obvious from the beginning.


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## Endless Mike (Oct 31, 2007)

Can Kaku generate kiloton - level force?


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## Blue (Oct 31, 2007)

Even if he couldn't, he could induce such a high degree of acceleration in Greves that his internal organs are turned into chunky salsa.


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## Orion (Oct 31, 2007)

Blasting and cutting arent exactly the same kind of damage.


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## Endless Mike (Oct 31, 2007)

Grievous has taken extreme physical punishment and been fine. Refer to Shiroi_Kiba's posts


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## Blue (Oct 31, 2007)

See, if Kaku decides to hit Greaves with his full might, Greaves will easily find himself propelled some miles. 

Star Wars-verse humans (aliens, etc) have, in the absence of force powers, exactly the same durability as real world humans. This holds true inside as well as out.

You'd point out that Greaves is covered in this armor that Kiba is wanking like it's his last pull and therefore is more durable, and you'd be correct. Unfortunately his organs aren't covered in anything and would promptly be pancaked against his chest wall upon Kaku hitting him with the usual level of OP strength absurdity.

Also, as I seem to recall, Obi-wan defeats Greves by shooting him with a hand blaster (ironic after all the lightsaber penissery) so this armor isn't quite as serious (or perhaps as comprehensive) as it's made out to be.


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## Superrazien (Oct 31, 2007)

Endless Mike said:


> Can Kaku generate kiloton - level force?



If Obi-Wan can bend Grievious armor with brief instance of Super Human Strength Kaku should be able to shatter his armor.


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## Fang (Oct 31, 2007)

He wasn't even able to bend it. Just pray it open in a narrow gap to later fire on it. FYI Starfighter bursts generally are three or four high level kiloton blasts. And he can shrug those off.

And blaster cannons represent not just heat but also kinetic force.


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## Pipboy (Oct 31, 2007)

I present case 1.

The Armored AT-ST walker, coated in next generation armor, a veritable walking tank.  It is in fact the same line of walkers that the clone wars era AT-PT was in.   This vs. 2 logs, weighing in at 2.2 tons each.

Winner.   LOGS.

Wow, that armor is some slick shit.  Remind me to put that on the front of my car when I crash into a railing at 70 miles an hour with roughly quadruple the force. 

Case 2.  

Anti-personel blaster vs. Han's Arm.   If anywhere near the kiloton scale was used to attack Han's arm on endor he would be entirely vaporized.

Case 3.  

20 attacks per second from all 4 arms.

What have we learned?  That star wars is schitzophrenic.


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## Fang (Oct 31, 2007)

An AT-ST isn't anywhere near as armored as an ARC Heavy Starfighter nor does a infantry level blaster equate to their firepower.


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## Blue (Oct 31, 2007)

I can now see how people can learn to appreciate Pip. XD


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## Pipboy (Oct 31, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> An AT-ST isn't anywhere near as armored as an ARC Heavy Starfighter nor does a infantry level blaster equate to their firepower.



Hyuck hyuck.   Thas some pretty ripe shit you is shoveling pardner.  If an AT-ST is armored to 100th of the capacity of an ARC heavy despite the fact that the AT-ST is a land based vehicle which magnifies the weight to power ratio over a combination aerospace fighter and despite the fact that its a 20 years later model its still not good enough.  

Furthermore, infantry weapons define infantry armor and if a substance like duranium was available then its not all that hard to modify it to infantry use, which make infantry invulnerable to small arms, unless they use not so small arms.  Given that the same blasters that can harm what would be duranium equivalent armors don't vaporize han, the kiloton fantasy is toast.


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## Endless Mike (Nov 1, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> I present case 1.
> 
> The Armored AT-ST walker, coated in next generation armor, a veritable walking tank.  It is in fact the same line of walkers that the clone wars era AT-PT was in.   This vs. 2 logs, weighing in at 2.2 tons each.
> 
> ...



Yes, let's compare the armor of a *light scout vehicle *to starfighter armor that can shrug off kiloton - level attacks

And let's compare a hand weapon (which is known to have variable yields) to a starship weapon.



Pipboy said:


> Hyuck hyuck.   Thas some pretty ripe shit you is shoveling pardner.  If an AT-ST is armored to 100th of the capacity of an ARC heavy despite the fact that the AT-ST is a land based vehicle which magnifies the weight to power ratio over a combination aerospace fighter and despite the fact that its a 20 years later model its still not good enough.
> 
> Furthermore, infantry weapons define infantry armor and if a substance like duranium was available then its not all that hard to modify it to infantry use, which make infantry invulnerable to small arms, unless they use not so small arms.  Given that the same blasters that can harm what would be duranium equivalent armors don't vaporize han, the kiloton fantasy is toast.



1. The AT-ST was designed for maneuverability over rough terrain, not durability.

2. There is no significant tech advancement in basic duranium armor between the Clone Wars and ROTJ periods. The SWverse is pretty stagnant techwise except for a few occasional innovations.

3. Grievous' armor was too expensive to mass - produce

4. It was directly stated it could shrug off a starfighter cannon blast. Deal with it.


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## Pipboy (Nov 1, 2007)

Light scout vehicle?  Are you serious, thats like comparing the armor of a Bradley APC to that of an A-10 warthog, yeah the warthog has more armor, but the truth is that there is not a massive enough difference that the armor that the warthog, a titanium bathtub weighing several tons could  be outfitted onto a man and for him to have the same abilty to absorb damage, let alone absorb mpre damage than a light scout vehicle.   This is the deal, its a matter of material science, you cannot have enough armor on man size object to rvial that of a dozen ton fusion powered attack fighter, just because the armor is similar in design and composition.  Thats lunacy.  Grievous has starfighter type armor, but not starfighter levels of it.


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## Sasaki Kojirō (Nov 1, 2007)

^That sounds pretty reasonable...and why was Grievous such a bitch in the movie if he has all these crazy feats and abilities?


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## Endless Mike (Nov 1, 2007)

Pipboy said:


> Light scout vehicle?  Are you serious, thats like comparing the armor of a Bradley APC to that of an A-10 warthog, yeah the warthog has more armor, but the truth is that there is not a massive enough difference that the armor that the warthog, a titanium bathtub weighing several tons could  be outfitted onto a man and for him to have the same abilty to absorb damage, let alone absorb mpre damage than a light scout vehicle.   This is the deal, its a matter of material science, you cannot have enough armor on man size object to rvial that of a dozen ton fusion powered attack fighter, just because the armor is similar in design and composition.  Thats lunacy.  Grievous has starfighter type armor, but not starfighter levels of it.





			
				page 96-Revenge of the Sith said:
			
		

> He is built to dominate. The ceramic armorplat-plates proteching limbs and torso and face can stop a burst from a starfighter's laser cannons. Those indestructible arms are ten times stronger than a human, and move with the blurring speed of electronic reflexes.



Canon disagrees



The Faint Smile said:


> ^That sounds pretty reasonable...and why was Grievous such a bitch in the movie if he has all these crazy feats and abilities?



Because he was wounded when Mace Windu Force crushed his chest. That's why he was wheezing and coughing throughout the whole movie.

_Can you quit double posting, EM? - ezxx_


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## Blue (Nov 1, 2007)

Okay. Let's assume for a moment that this armor can stop a starfighter bolt. We'll even pretend it can stop more than one, although that's just utterly absurd, because if it could, starfighter cannons would be pretty worthless.

Too bad it's "proteching limbs and torso and face".

If it covered him completely
1. He couldn't move.
2. Obi-wan would not have turned him into a Roman candle with a hand blaster.

Therefore we can come to two conclusions:
1. It is designed to protect against pinpoint heat/radiation damage with minimal kinetic force - what you'd expect from blasters. 
2. It doesn't cover everything.

And therefore Kaku kills him twice over:
1. Rankyaku inflicts shearing kinetic damage. He'd be torn apart.
2. A solid hit would still liquefy his guts.


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## Clouds-Are-Nice (Nov 1, 2007)

I might as well add this since it relates to durasteel's yield stress...


I'm almost certain LotF#2 - Bloodlines states that the yield stress of durasteel is 8,000kg per cm^2 (in Earth-like gravity).  This is about three\four times stronger than normal steel.

Doing the math...

*Spoiler*: __ 




1) 8000kg * 9.8m\sec^2 = Newtons --- Converting into Newtons (this assumes Earth-like gravity)
2) 78400 N \ (1 cm)^2 * (100 cm)^2\(1 m)^2 = 784000000N/m ---> Converting from cm^2 to m^2...
3) 784,000,000N-m^2 = 7.84 x 10^8N-m^2 ---> Simplifying
4) 10^6N-m^2 is called a Mega Pascal(MPa) so Durasteel is 784 MPa...
5) Steel (regular) has a rating of around 200-250 MPa, so durasteel is supposed to be around three\four times stronger against physical stress.




Here's an example of that calculation at work as well:



			
				Star Wars - Darksaber (Kevin J. Anderson) said:
			
		

> Daala turned and ripped one of the electric-blue glowtorches from the floor behind her. "Enough!" she shouted. She raised the durasteel staff high and smashed it down upon the tabletop. The glowcrystal exploded into shards with crackling blue sparks, and transparent fragments flew in all directions. She hammered the rod down again and again, denting the table, bending the staff, and fragmenting the end.  Five minutes remained on the cyberlocked door.


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## Segan (Nov 1, 2007)

If durasteel is only three/four times stronger than regular steel, then it's quite useless as a protective armor against Kaku...


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## Orion (Nov 1, 2007)

Im not seeing how kaku cant play keep away and keep spamming rankicks till he dismembers the joints or something.


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## Fang (Nov 1, 2007)

Feitan have you seen Clone Wars? Grievous is capable of moving quite fast.


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## Sylar (Nov 1, 2007)

I believe both Boba and Jango were killing off Jedi and Sith and neither of them had force powers OR lightsabers.

Boba actually beat Vader one on one and could have killed him if he felt like it.

Jango fought and killed some rogue Jedi whose name I can't recall.

Both have fought and killed many many Jedi.

Hell Boba was killing Jedi in his teens.

They certainly don't have anywhere NEAR lightspeed reactions.

Just saying...


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## Fang (Nov 1, 2007)

Boba has never killed Jedi.


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## Sylar (Nov 1, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> Boba has never killed Jedi.



In a comic he bragged to Vader about how he's killed Jedi.


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## Fang (Nov 1, 2007)

If your taking about Enemy of the Empire, he was lying.


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## Sea Pirate (Nov 1, 2007)

> If your taking about Enemy of the Empire, he was lying.


And how do you know this?


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## Fang (Nov 1, 2007)

Because he has never once killed a Jedi. Trust me, never in the Clone Wars, never in the purges after RoTS.


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## Sea Pirate (Nov 1, 2007)

Why should I trust you, if you don't have any evidence to show me?


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## Sylar (Nov 1, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> Because he has never once killed a Jedi. Trust me, never in the Clone Wars, never in the purges after RoTS.



Touche.

He still had Vader beat.

And I know for a fact that Jango has killed multiple Jedi.

And everyone knows that Boba > Jango.


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## Fang (Nov 1, 2007)

Sea Pirate said:


> Why should I trust you, if you don't have any evidence to show me?



I really don't care if you don't trust me or not. He never has, you can check Wookiepedia if you want. I have every single Boba Fett comic on my hard-drive. Only Jango Fett has killed Jedi Knights and that was before the final destruction of the remainders of the Mandalorian Neo-Crusaders leftover since Revan's time.

@Sylar, the only reason he "had" Vader beat was because he had that chick's head in the box and Vader wanted it to overthrow the Emperor.


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## Sylar (Nov 1, 2007)

Sea Pirate said:


> Why should I trust you, if you don't have any evidence to show me?



I looked at Wookiepedia. Boba hasn't killed a Jedi.

@TWF: Strategy FTW.


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## Sea Pirate (Nov 1, 2007)

> I looked at Wookiepedia. Boba hasn't killed a Jedi.


Fine. But you were still right with this one:


> He still had Vader beat.
> 
> And I know for a fact that Jango has killed multiple Jedi.
> 
> And everyone knows that Boba > Jango.


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## Fang (Nov 1, 2007)

Anyway, Grievous was dodging and outrunning blaster bolts and missiles, even at near point blank ranges once the ARC Troopers and their LAAT/I came to save the Jedi.

I think they were using were DC-15 blasters and DC-17 hand-blasters. I remember from SDN.NET that the general consensus was those things can shoot about 500/600 bolts in under a minute and their speed was aroudn 900/1000 meters per second.

Edit: Boba would never beat his father.

Feats > Internet hype.


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## Sylar (Nov 1, 2007)

Hype nothing.

He survived the Sarlaac's stomach acids.

That's hardcore baby.


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## Superrazien (Nov 1, 2007)

Other than Lighsabers is there anything Grievous can even use to harm Kaku. I just see Kaku Rankicking the light saber hilts making them worthless. The what will Grievous do, I have not seen him use enough physical force to break a Tekkai.


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## Orion (Nov 1, 2007)

Shiroi Kiba said:


> Feitan have you seen Clone Wars? Grievous is capable of moving quite fast.



I have it on my computer and kaku is very very fast himself....like I said kakus soru+geppou means he practically has flight he could play keep away all day and just spam rankicks into the weak spots of the armor until it breaks down.


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## maximilyan (Nov 2, 2007)

whats with all the sexy sigs in this thread.. tunrin me on  ... anywya gunna go with grevious on this one.


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