# Can Base Jiraya survive Amaterasu?



## Sufex (Apr 14, 2019)

This is inspired by a post my good friend made



Mad Scientist said:


> As for my own view, that's probably for that thread. But generally speaking, Jiraiya has no counter to a direct hit taken by Amaterasu. The best he could do is sever his limb off (see, this is where probability is factored in again because if it gets his neck he's done for, but if Amaterasu only gets his hand or arm... I'm sure you get the picture.) The reason why it's a different thread entirely is because we need to know how much Jiraiya knows about Amaterasu - full knowledge? Etc. As a debator, if you were arguing for Jiraiya, you'd argue that with knowledge he anticipates Amaterasu and uses clones to not get hit in the first place. There's also Kawarimi to consider.



IMO he would get 1 shot by it as he has no way of sensing it, nor hax or the speed to survive it but I want to see *reasonable *counter arguments. Please leave your biases and salt out of this thread


 keep things civil


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## Cad Bane (Apr 14, 2019)

No he can't. Amaterasu one-shots Jiraiya.


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## Topace (Apr 14, 2019)

Only way I see him surviving is if he wraps himself in his hair.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kisame (Apr 14, 2019)

If he's in base and Amaterasu was used he'd likely get killed.


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## Hazuki (Apr 14, 2019)

if kishimoto gave him a move to seal amaterasu then i guess he can manage to deal with it
jiraiya don't have only seal he has shown some haxx  feat with his shadow ( hiding into a shadow as he shown this when he met  konan in part 2 )

i think that jiraiya even in base is *enough ( very )  versatil* to deal with amaterasu


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## Sufex (Apr 14, 2019)

Hazuki said:


> if kishimoto gave him a move to seal amaterasu then i guess he can manage to deal with it
> jiraiya don't have only seal he has shown some haxx  feat with his shadow ( hiding into a shadow as he shown this when he met  konan in part 2 )
> 
> i think that jiraiya even in base is *enough versatil* to deal with amaterasu



Sage mode jiraya was in so much pain from pains rods he had to have the frog sage break it off him. But you think his base form will be able to make the hand-signs and *seal the flames off himself while burning alive. * flames so hot they literally burn fire itself.

Okay.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Hazuki (Apr 14, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> Sage mode jiraya was in so much pain from pains rods he had to have the frog sage break it off him. But you think his base form will be able to make the hand-sings and *seal the flames off himself while burning alive* from flames so hot they literally burn fire itself.
> 
> Okay.



the fight against pain was in the worst situation ever
-no knowledge  of pain ability
-in unknow localisation
-ambush from behind when jiraiya tough the fight was over
- fighting the first rinnegan user in the manga

pain never touch jiraiya until the sannin though the fight was over et get ambush

i don't think you realize how extremely hard the context was for jiraiya against pain without knowledge
you can't take this fight as a reference for an other opponent


and for amaterasu , i don't say that base jiraiya would automaticaly seal amaterasu , i say that he is enough versatil to deal with it
also we have seen that amaterasu don't burn that fast , just look at those samurai or karine cloth

*even kakashi part 2 ( one of the most intelligente and skill ninja in konoha ) said and believe that itachi and kisame didn't try to capture naruto because of jiraiya , meaning that he believe that he is strong enough and versatil enough to protect naruto from them even if he knew about itachi power ( tsukiyumi and amaterasu ) *

i really don't think that it would be as easely as you think

( by the way* shark* with your funny smiley you are not credible anymore in this forum ..)


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## Azula (Apr 14, 2019)

It's a myth that you _*need *_to be a sensor or _*need *_speed to counter it. It was countered by base Naruto outside of any relevant power modes by a tiny amount of protective chakra coating.

Amaterasu just needs to be thrown off the body. Jiraiya can manipulate his hair as a protective covering and then shed off the hair on flames.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Turrin (Apr 14, 2019)

If Jiraiya hit and can’t severe a limb he’s done, but I do think it’s harder to hit Base Jiraiya with Amaterasu then people make it out to be. Base Jiraiya doesn’t usually fight in a straight forward manner; instead he usually likes to use feints, stealth techs,  traps, or attacking from a range while using combinations with his toads.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Architect (Apr 14, 2019)

If he starts 50 meters apart, then sure. Otherwise no.


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## LIBU (Apr 14, 2019)

J-man has no speed/reaction feat to suggest that he can dodge amaterasu,At most he can use some feints or clash with amaterasu(which is unlikely as well cuz he needs to anticipate amaterasu first in order to clash with it)  with other ninjutsu to buy some time and get out of the focal point of amaterasu(see sasuke vs itachi), but sasuke eventually got hit by amaterasu,but maybe j-man can avoid it with clone feints or something. (i honestly don't think so, but chances are there so..)


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## BlackHeartedImp (Apr 14, 2019)

Azula said:


> It's a myth that you _*need *_to be a sensor or _*need *_speed to counter it. It was countered by base Naruto outside of any relevant power modes by a tiny amount of protective chakra coating.
> 
> Amaterasu just needs to be thrown off the body. Jiraiya can manipulate his hair as a protective covering and then shed off the hair on flames.


Base *Rikudo *Naruto? That's a bad example.

Reactions: Like 7


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## Azula (Apr 14, 2019)

BlackHeartedImp said:


> Base *Rikudo *Naruto? That's a bad example.



RSM is irrelevant.

He is base Naruto. He is not any better than the base Naruto before getting RSM.

He tripped and fell down on a rock...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Hi no Ishi (Apr 14, 2019)

BlackHeartedImp said:


> Base *Rikudo *Naruto? That's a bad example.


Can't walk right, falling on his face from exhaustion Rikudo Naruto, yes.

Killer B, BM B, and Sasuke both reacted to it and neither are sensors or A4 tier speedsters.


OT: Jiraiya blocks with his Wild Lions Mane and shoves the burning ends into Itachi's face before cutting off the extended portion with a Stone Sword.


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## Sufex (Apr 14, 2019)

Hi no Ishi said:


> Can't walk right, falling on his face from exhaustion Rikudo Naruto, yes.





Azula said:


> RSM is irrelevant.
> 
> He is base Naruto. He is not any better than the base Naruto before getting RSM.
> 
> He tripped and fell down on a rock...



The same base naruto that was going hand to hand with rennegan sasuke?


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## Azula (Apr 14, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> The same base naruto that was going hand to hand with rennegan sasuke?



Rinnegan Sasuke that is out of chakra or any eye techniques isn't any better. 

Both of them are at a very low point strength wise despite getting powerups. They were gonna die of a Rasengan and Chidori. Naruto's clones were defeated by shurikens.


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## Blu-ray (Apr 14, 2019)

Even if we assume Needle Jizo/Wild Lion's mane can protect him, how is he going to be using either of those before the flames actually hit his body? As a preemptive measure sure. But reacting to an attack he won't see coming until it's actually on him isn't something I see Jiraiya doing.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Omote (Apr 14, 2019)

Everyone who's reacted to Amat in canon has better reactions than Jiraiya

He gets his dumbass torched

Reactions: Like 3


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## Mad Scientist (Apr 14, 2019)

Topace said:


> Only way I see him surviving is if he wraps himself in his hair.





Azula said:


> It's a myth that you _*need *_to be a sensor or _*need *_speed to counter it. It was countered by base Naruto outside of any relevant power modes by a tiny amount of protective chakra coating.
> 
> Amaterasu just needs to be thrown off the body. Jiraiya can manipulate his hair as a protective covering and then shed off the hair on flames.





Hi no Ishi said:


> Can't walk right, falling on his face from exhaustion Rikudo Naruto, yes.
> 
> Killer B, BM B, and Sasuke both reacted to it and neither are sensors or A4 tier speedsters.
> 
> ...



I can't believe I didn't think of this. His hair could actually be an excellent counter and, in fact, he could indeed shove it back at Itachi or even use it as cover to hide like a mole. 



Blu-ray said:


> Even if we assume Needle Jizo/Wild Lion's mane can protect him, how is he going to be using either of those before the flames actually hit his body? As a preemptive measure sure. But reacting to an attack he won't see coming until it's actually on him isn't something I see Jiraiya doing.



I thought about this too. Preemptively, yes. But there are two other ways. Sage mode can detect chakra build up and also chakra direction, right? Also, Sasuke was able to momentarily run away from Itachi's Amaterasu. I'm hedging my bets that Sage Mode Jiraiya is faster than that Sasuke, though I could be wrong. Both of these allow Jiraiya to use Lion's Mane in time.


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## Hi no Ishi (Apr 14, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> The same base naruto that was going hand to hand with rennegan sasuke?


Yep. And Amaterasu  him but he still  it.
Right before Sasuke tells us he has used too much chakra to do right and Naruto  flat on his face from exhaustion

Notice you ignored the non Rikudo shinobi who also blocked and reacted to it, though lol.

Also C, Karin and everybody at FKS could tell when Sasuke switches to the  to use , so maybe they are all Rikudo too?
Heck that samurai who got hit had time to  and block so he definitely has to be Rikudo speed, riiiiiight?


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## Sufex (Apr 14, 2019)

Mad Scientist said:


> Preemptively, yes. But there are two other ways. Sage mode can detect chakra build up and also chakra direction, right?




Jmans sage mode doesn't have the same sensing naruto does, it never happened and is just fancition because people like to give all Jmans SM feats to naruto, who is flat out superior. Either way this is BASE jiraya



Mad Scientist said:


> Sasuke was able to momentarily run away from Itachi's Amaterasu. I'm hedging my bets that Sage Mode Jiraiya is faster than that Sasuke



Again bro this is Base Jiraya who does not have any evidence to show he is as fast as that sasuke.



Hi no Ishi said:


> Notice you ignored the non Rikudo shinobi who also blocked and reacted to it,


I ignored them because i dont think i need to state that Bee and sasukes reactions >> base jirayas

Also bro can you chill out the the strawmanning and baiting, i said keep things civil in the OP.


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## Hi no Ishi (Apr 14, 2019)

Blu-ray said:


> Even if we assume Needle Jizo/Wild Lion's mane can protect him, how is he going to be using either of those before the flames actually hit his body? As a preemptive measure sure. But reacting to an attack he won't see coming until it's actually on him isn't something I see Jiraiya doing.


Even though a ton of shinobi have shown themselves able to see him switch to MS,  can see his eye bleed, and have physically reacted to it, you assume Jiraiya won't see it coming?

Reactions: Like 3


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## Mad Scientist (Apr 14, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> Jmans sage mode doesn't have the same sensing naruto does, it never happened and is just fancition because people like to give all Jmans SM feats to naruto, who is flat out superior. Either way this is BASE jiraya
> 
> 
> 
> Again bro this is Base Jiraya who does not have any evidence to show he is as fast as that sasuke.


Damn, I did not see that. It is base indeed.

Perhaps it would be much more difficult then, however, Itachi's eye bleeding etc is a giveaway.


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## ~Kakashi~ (Apr 14, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> Jmans sage mode doesn't have the same sensing naruto does, it never happened and is just fancition because people like to give all Jmans SM feats to naruto, who is flat out superior.



Fukasaku and Shima being perfect sages kinda renders this irrelevant. While Jiraiya may not be able to lay claim to SM Naruto's SM abilities, no reason Fukasaku and Shima can't.





> Again bro this is Base Jiraya who does not have any evidence to show he is as fast as that sasuke.



There is always the wonderful databook that says Jiraiya is just as fast as Sasuke(4.5) 

(no, I don't take the databook stats seriously, before someone's panties get in a bunch)


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## The_Conqueror (Apr 14, 2019)

You can shed clothes like jubbi or Madara did its not that hard


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## Hi no Ishi (Apr 14, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> Jmans sage mode doesn't have the same sensing naruto does, it never happened and is just fancition because people like to give all Jmans SM feats to naruto, who is flat out superior. Either way this is BASE jiraya


guess SM Naruto, Fukusaku, Shima, Ino, and Sensing Division Captain Inoichi must all not be sensors either because Pain snuck up on them. 
Sounds legit.

Heck since the sensor division couldn't find Nagato, are they even sensors as well?

I see your point now...


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## Symmetry (Apr 14, 2019)

I believe Jiriya would be able to sacrifice his hair and then eject the hair with his senbon attack. That is the only way he’d be able to survive it. As for actually being able to react to doing it, I am unsure if he’d be able to.


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## Hi no Ishi (Apr 14, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> I ignored them because i dont think i need to state that Bee and sasukes reactions >> base jirayas
> 
> Also bro can you chill out the the strawmanning and baiting, i said keep things civil in the OP.


Since you decided that sarcasm and smilies were civil I responded the same, is it not the case?

And regardless it makes no sense to say several characters including a bleeding samurai can react to something but we should assume Jiraiya can't at all, or to say not being able to sense 6PoP somehow means you're not a sensor.


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## BlackHeartedImp (Apr 14, 2019)

Azula said:


> RSM is irrelevant.
> 
> He is base Naruto. He is not any better than the base Naruto before getting RSM.
> 
> He tripped and fell down on a rock...


How is RSM irrelevant? The same Naruto was in BM and BSM for most of the final act of the war fighting JJs. As soon as he gets power from the sage, he kicks a truthseeker while not even accessing bijuu chakra and is going head up with Rinnegan Sasuke in base at the start of the VOTE2 fight. Naruto beforehand got the bijuu sucked outta him by 1 Rinnegan SM Madara. That's a MASSIVE difference.

And I don't need to tell you how much PIS him falling over a rock is when he runs on water and hops through forests for a living.



Hi no Ishi said:


> Can't walk right, falling on his face from exhaustion Rikudo Naruto, yes.
> 
> Killer B, BM B, and Sasuke both reacted to it and neither are sensors or A4 tier speedsters.
> 
> ...


That exhausted Naruto still had enough chakra in the tank to manifest part of a v1 cloak, use several rasengans (including the last one that collided with Sasuke's chidori and ) and throw fisticuffs with Sasuke for an entire day (you can see the passage of time better in the anime). 

Not to mention KB>Jiraiya and Itachi was sandbagging.


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## Sufex (Apr 14, 2019)

Hi no Ishi said:


> Since you decided that sarcasm and smilies were civil I responded the same, is it not the case?



1 laughing emoji vs 5 laughing faces and 3 separate sarcastic claims trying to frame me as an idiot via strawmanning me with egregious claims i never made. okay.



Hi no Ishi said:


> guess SM Naruto, Fukusaku, Shima, Ino, and Sensing Division Captain Inoichi must all not be sensors either because Pain snuck up on them.
> Sounds legit.


Yet another strawman claim i never made.


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## Omote (Apr 14, 2019)

Hi no Ishi said:


> Since you decided that sarcasm and smilies were civil I responded the same, is it not the case?
> 
> And regardless it makes no sense to say several characters including a bleeding samurai can react to something but we should assume Jiraiya can't at all, or to say not being able to sense 6PoP somehow means you're not a sensor.



You know it in your heart, Genjutsu GG into Amat is too much for Jiraiya to handle 

I used to be a Sannin wanker too, there's still salvation for your soul


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## Sufex (Apr 14, 2019)

Hi no Ishi said:


> or to say not being able to sense 6PoP somehow means you're not a sensor.


I dont even know why you're talking about sensing. even though SM Jman doesnt have innate sensing ;this is base jman so its irrelevant anyway


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## ShinAkuma (Apr 14, 2019)

Jiraiya probably has 3 business day to do something about amaterasu if he takes the hit. (see rando samurai)

Otherwise I see no reason why he doesn't match it with his own katon or protect himself with wild lions mane.

At the end of the day amaterasu is just an emo looking katon.


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## BlackHeartedImp (Apr 14, 2019)

ShinAkuma said:


> Jiraiya probably has 3 business day to do something about amaterasu if he takes the hit. (see rando samurai)
> 
> Otherwise I see no reason why he doesn't *match it with his own katon *or protect himself with wild lions mane.
> 
> At the end of the day amaterasu is just an emo looking katon.


Amaterasu literally eats other fire style. That's not an option for Jiraiya.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ShinAkuma (Apr 14, 2019)

BlackHeartedImp said:


> Amaterasu literally eats other fire style. That's not an option for Jiraiya.



Really?

Sasuke's katon, after overpowering Itachi's, ate up most of Itachi's amaterasu.

intercept V1 Raikage's point-blank punch on KCM Naruto

intercept V1 Raikage's point-blank punch on KCM Naruto

Sasuke's katon ate up so much of it that Itachi had to cast *another* amaterasu.


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## Sufex (Apr 14, 2019)

I think we have some fundamental misunderstandings ITT.

Lets set it straight: Does Amaterasu spawn on a target or not?

if it spawns, then how can Jman match it with his katon (setting himself on fire?) or use lions mane to WRAP his hair around himself, when he is already on fire?


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## ShinAkuma (Apr 14, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> I think we have some fundamental misunderstandings ITT.
> 
> Lets set it straight Does Amaterasu span on a target or not/
> 
> if it spawns, then how can Jman match it with his katon (setting himself on fire?) or use lions mane to WRAP his hair around himself, when he is already on fire?



The jutsu manifests within ones field of vision, so one can either move from the field of vision (Raikage) or obscure the field of vision. (Sasuke Katon)

If Jman got hit he would likely need to remove the part of his body that was hit.


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## Godaime Tsunade (Apr 14, 2019)

Azula said:


> It's a myth that you _*need *_to be a sensor or _*need *_speed to counter it. It was countered by base Naruto outside of any relevant power modes by a tiny amount of protective chakra coating.
> 
> Amaterasu just needs to be thrown off the body. Jiraiya can manipulate his hair as a protective covering and then shed off the hair on flames.



Jiraiya has a few possible options for escaping Amaterasu, but it really all depends on whether or not you believe he has the reactions and casting speed necessary to pull of a jutsu before Amaterasu can hit him.

I don’t think he does, since even Hebi Sasuke had no choice but to run away from it.

Reactions: Like 4


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## ShinAkuma (Apr 14, 2019)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Jiraiya has a few possible options for escaping Amaterasu, but it really all depends on whether or not you believe he has the reactions and casting speed necessary to pull of a jutsu before Amaterasu can hit him.
> 
> I don’t think he does, since even Hebi Sasuke had no choice but to run away from it.



Hard to say if Sasuke could do nothing or if getting hit there was a part of his overall plan.


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## Azula (Apr 14, 2019)

BlackHeartedImp said:


> How is RSM irrelevant? The same Naruto was in BM and BSM for most of the final act of the war fighting JJs. As soon as he gets power from the sage, he kicks a truthseeker while not even accessing bijuu chakra and is going head up with Rinnegan Sasuke in base at the start of the VOTE2 fight. Naruto beforehand got the bijuu sucked outta him by 1 Rinnegan SM Madara. That's a MASSIVE difference.
> 
> And I don't need to tell you how much PIS him falling over a rock is when he runs on water and hops through forests for a living.







He doesn't have the Toad SM or BM eyes. So that is a clear indication imo that this version of Naruto is simply far too de-powered, and it shows in the fight where it just the most basic of fighting.

So it is fair to use him countering amaterasu as an argument.


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## LIBU (Apr 14, 2019)

Mad Scientist said:


> Also, Sasuke was able to momentarily run away from Itachi's Amaterasu. I'm hedging my bets that Sage Mode Jiraiya is faster than that Sasuke, though I could be wrong. Both of these allow Jiraiya to use Lion's Mane in time.


You're missing context bro,As amaterasu was overpowering sasuke's fireball jutsu which indeed took some time,that allowed sasuke to anticipate amaterasu which further allowed sasuke to run around itachi in circles, constantly changing the focus point of itachi's eyes,In this way sasuke avoided amaterasu to an extent.

1.J-man can't anticipate amaterasu,(until a similar situation occurs)
2.J-man should fight the whole battle circling the amaterasu user which will allow him to evade amaterasu to an extent(or maybe he can evade it with clone feints or summoning when amaterasu is just about to hit him while circling)


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## ThomasTheCat (Apr 14, 2019)

Topace said:


> Only way I see him surviving is if he wraps himself in his hair.


The problem with that is Jiraiya needing to preemptively perform the Jutsu


Hazuki said:


> ( by the way* shark* with your funny smiley you are not credible anymore in this forum ..)



Why tf is everyone calling everyone else a dupe?


Hi no Ishi said:


> Heck that samurai who got hit had time to  and block so he definitely has to be Rikudo speed, riiiiiight?


He had already been hit when he screamed and threw his arms up


~Kakashi~ said:


> There is always the wonderful databook that says Jiraiya is just as fast as Sasuke(4.5)





~Kakashi~ said:


> (no, I don't take the databook stats seriously, before someone's panties get in a bunch)

Reactions: Like 2


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## Hi no Ishi (Apr 14, 2019)

Omote said:


> You know it in your heart, Genjutsu GG into Amat is too much for Jiraiya to handle
> 
> I used to be a Sannin wanker too, there's still salvation for your soul


Thanks bro, I appreciate the concern lol.

I get on Jiraiya Wankers and Haters pretty evenly lol. 
People who think that he can 1v6 6PoP straight up or fight Minato or V2 A4 get it from me just as much as people who think he is hella slower than Jugo and Suigetsu or won't use his eyes to see someone switching to the Mangekyo just because.

Maybe one day you will forgive Jiraiya for kicking your dog. On that day I will be there for you my friend. Waiting with a smile and an outstretched hand. 



FoboBemo said:


> 1 laughing emoji vs 5 laughing faces and 3 separate sarcastic claims trying to frame me as an idiot via strawmanning me with egregious claims i never made. okay.


I posted seriously to you and you responded to me sarcastically but now are upset about a tone for the conversation that you yourself set.

I merely thought you just wanted to have a bit of fun with this and responded accordingly, and I apologize if I misread your signals there, but if you don't want to escalate things to that level then simply don't be the one to start it.

And pointing out how one is wrong about anime stuff couldn't possibly make you an idiot so please don't ever take it that way from anybody.




FoboBemo said:


> Yet another strawman claim i never made.



You keep claiming straw man instead of addressing the actual points here.

You are the one who pointed out that Naruto was a Rikudo so that's what I responded to.

You are the one who didn't mention the several other people who could tell a MS jutsu was coming and react to it including Darui, C, and that Samurai so i pointed it out and you still just tried to be flippiant and only respond about the half of them that may suit your point.


FoboBemo said:


> I dont even know why you're talking about sensing. even though SM Jman doesnt have innate sensing ;this is base jman so its irrelevant anyway


I brought it up in response to you trying to use not sensing Pain as a way to say he didn't have an ability that comes with sage mode.
Or was that somehow not what you were saying with "Jmans sage mode doesn't have the same sensing naruto does, it never happened and is just fancition because people like to give all Jmans SM feats to naruto, who is flat out superior. Either way this is BASE jiraya"

Because otherwise there is 0 evidence that he is not a sensor in SM




Anywho if you would like to keep the sarcasm and smiles out of the conversation I would love to do so as well, sir.


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## Tri (Apr 14, 2019)

If it’s already hit him then no.


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## JayK (Apr 14, 2019)

People here trying to scale Base Naruto to Jiraiya.

Holy. Fucking. Shit.


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## Zero890 (Apr 14, 2019)

Jiraiya could avoid Amaterasu when he sees Itachi activating his MS like these guys


*Spoiler*: __ 








*Spoiler*: __ 








He can take preventive measures and he has the knowledge about Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi because he saw both


*Spoiler*: __ 








*Spoiler*: __

Reactions: Like 1


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## JayK (Apr 14, 2019)

Zero890 said:


> Jiraiya could avoid Amaterasu when he sees Itachi activating his MS like these guys


Neither early KCM Naruto nor B dodged Amaterasu there (not like Jiraiya SM or not would even get the slightest scaling from them) so I dunno why you even show those panels, probably for shits and giggles.

Also cute assuming Jiraiya could dodge Ama because V2 A could when the latter would shitblitz Jiraiya.



W/e sates your wanking I guess.


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## Zero890 (Apr 14, 2019)

JayK said:


> Neither early KCM Naruto nor B dodged Amaterasu there (not like Jiraiya SM or not would even get the slightest scaling from them) so I dunno why you even show those panels, probably for shits and giggles.
> 
> Also cute assuming Jiraiya could dodge Ama because V2 A could when the latter would shitblitz Jiraiya.
> 
> ...



You literally did not understand anything, The point is that Jiraiya can see the MS activating.


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## JayK (Apr 14, 2019)

Zero890 said:


> You literally did not understand anything, The point is that Jiraiya can see the MS activating.


Except for the fact I did but seeing it activate doesn't help you for shit when you can't avoid it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## LIBU (Apr 14, 2019)

Zero890 said:


> You literally did not understand anything, The point is that Jiraiya can see the MS activating.


What if itachi trolls j-man and uses Tsukiyomi instead amaterasu


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## Zero890 (Apr 14, 2019)

JayK said:


> Except for the fact I did but seeing it activate doesn't help you for shit when you can't avoid it.



Again you did not understand, he will not dodge it running he can take



Zero890 said:


> preventive measures


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## Leaf Hurricane (Apr 14, 2019)

He can always strip.


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## Zero890 (Apr 14, 2019)

LIBU said:


> What if itachi trolls j-man and uses Tsukiyomi instead amaterasu



Jman already knows about Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu so if he sees the MS then he will know that one of those two Jutsu will come into play.


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## LIBU (Apr 14, 2019)

Zero890 said:


> Jman already knows about Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu so if he sees the MS then he will know that one of those two Jutsu will come into play.


lol,you didn't understand my point, if j-man makes an eye contact he will be genjutsued!


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## hbcaptain (Apr 14, 2019)

He dies, he didn't show any way to counter it.


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## Azula (Apr 14, 2019)

So many ratings. 

I will just add that while I think Jiraiya will manage amaterasu with either MS Sasuke/Itachi but EMS has progressed to spamming it in many different ways so it will not be possible for him at that point.


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## Zero890 (Apr 14, 2019)

LIBU said:


> lol,you didn't understand my point, if j-man makes an eye contact he will be genjutsued!



I understood friend, like that panel shows he first need to activate his MS.


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## LIBU (Apr 14, 2019)

Zero890 said:


> I understood friend, like that panel shows he first need to activate his MS.


Ahh i see itachi can't use genjutsu with 3T!

No matter how you slice it if j-man makes contact with itachi's eye in any scenario he will get genjutsued!


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## Trojan (Apr 14, 2019)

Everyone survive Amaterasu. You must be below dirt-tier not to survive it....


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## Zero890 (Apr 14, 2019)

LIBU said:


> Ahh i see itachi can't use genjutsu with 3T!
> 
> No matter how you slice it if j-man makes contact with itachi's eye in any scenario he will get genjutsued!



Ok

Reactions: Like 1


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## BlackHeartedImp (Apr 14, 2019)

How's it going @Hussain ? I missed your ratings, bro.


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## PrimeRichard (Apr 14, 2019)

Hussain said:


> Everyone survive Amaterasu. You must be below dirt-tier not to survive it....


Is that you A4. I can't find my arm because am a dirt-tier

Reactions: Like 4


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## Trojan (Apr 14, 2019)

PrimeRichard said:


> Is that you A4. I can't find my arm because am a dirt-tier


translation: for you to be hurt by Amaterasu, you must willingly do it yourself. Even then, Amaterasu is so shit, you must chop off your own arm on your own.


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## ShinAkuma (Apr 14, 2019)

PrimeRichard said:


> Is that you A4. I can't find my arm because am a dirt-tier


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## PrimeRichard (Apr 14, 2019)

Hussain said:


> translation: for you to be hurt by Amaterasu, you must willingly do it yourself. Even then, Amaterasu is so shit, you must chop off your own arm on your own.


He chop his hand off since it was going to burn his whole dirt-tier body. 

For you not to be hurt by amaterasu you need to cut part of your body off. 
Survive in this context. Cut of your body part because you know you can't survive the heat. 
Why didn't A4 just leave the flames on him if he can survive


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## wooly Eullerex (Apr 14, 2019)

of course not


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## ShinAkuma (Apr 14, 2019)

PrimeRichard said:


> Survive in this context. Cut of your body part because you know you can't survive the heat.
> Why didn't A4 just leave the flames on him if he can survive



Literally the moment I posted the definition of survive this conversation SHOULD HAVE BEEN OVER.

Apparently IT'S NOT LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Hussain said - "Everyone survive Amaterasu. You must be below dirt-tier not to survive it...."

Now there is no "context" that magically alters the definition of the words being used. If you did not die then you qualify as survived.

Did A4 survive? It's a yes or no question. If yes then your entire line of questioning fails.

If A4 did not survive then I GUESS YOU WIN!


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## Serene Grace (Apr 14, 2019)

Jiraiya can just take his clothes off 

He should survive long enough like the fodder samurai and Madara did

Reactions: Like 1


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## Zero890 (Apr 14, 2019)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Jiraiya can just take his clothes off
> 
> He should survive long enough like the fodder samurai and Madara did



True 


*Spoiler*: __ 









GG


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## BlackHeartedImp (Apr 14, 2019)

Jiraiya has as good a chance at surviving amaterasu as he does at getting a date with Tsunade.


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## Hi no Ishi (Apr 14, 2019)

BlackHeartedImp said:


> That exhausted Naruto still had enough chakra in the tank to manifest part of a v1 cloak, use several rasengans (including the last one that collided with Sasuke's chidori and ) and throw fisticuffs with Sasuke for an entire day (you can see the passage of time better in the anime).


Does that mean he wasn't falling over tired and surprised that it happened when he blocked?

What does him scrounging up more chakra over the course of a day and getting some from Kurama later have to do with how wrecked they were beforehand?


BlackHeartedImp said:


> Not to mention KB>Jiraiya and Itachi was sandbagging.


Itachi was still string to set him on fire so he could wear Sasuke out and end it, sandbagging the eventual outcome =/= he jobbed with every action.


ThomasTheCat said:


> He had already been hit when he screamed and threw his arms up


 naw, he got hit when it says "faboosh" and he falls screaming in the next panel, Amaterasu just makes a noise as it travels as well like we see in the Uchiha Bros fight.


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## Blu-ray (Apr 14, 2019)

Hi no Ishi said:


> Even though a ton of shinobi have shown themselves able to see him switch to MS,  can see his eye bleed, and have physically reacted to it, you assume Jiraiya won't see it coming?


Precisely. How is seeing Sasuke switch to MS (assuming he'd even risk looking into his eyes) going to tell him when Amaterasu is being cast? It's not like he activates it only when ready to fire Amaterasu and deactivates it right after. He keeps MS active continuously.

Furthermore, how many Shinobi have _physically_ responded to Amaterasu? Because the overwhelming majority counter it after being hit.

Obito? Countered after being hit. Hebi Sasuke? Started running before it was even cast and countered after being hit. Killer Bee? After being hit. Madara, Nagato, Kaguya? After being hit.

Ay is the only person to outright dodge, and Juubito and Naruto were the only persons to block it, and they all have evasive and defensive measures Jiraiya lacks. "Other people can do it so Jiraiya can too" simply isn't an argument.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Bonly (Apr 14, 2019)

Of course Base Jiraiya can. Magically he's gonna know Ama is coming despite never seeing it used(only the end result) instead of thinking that any MS jutsu is coming because he has Luffy's future sight COO. From there he can easily use his hair to cover his entire body before Ama gets off because we're not being biased in any way shape or form and we're gonna use the slowest time Ama was used and ignore the times where it was used faster. Then once Jiraiya is perfectly set up with the perfect counter then the Ama flames will come upon which he can easily just shoot his hair whenever can get rid of the flames. Base Jiraiya neg diff Ama


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## Trojan (Apr 14, 2019)

Has the Raikage seen Amaterasu being used before Sasuke used it on him? Or was it magic?


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## Hazuki (Apr 14, 2019)

LIBU said:


> Ahh i see itachi can't use genjutsu with 3T!
> 
> No matter how you slice it if j-man makes contact with itachi's eye in any scenario he will get genjutsued!



first of all , jiraiya is enough confident to protect naruto from 2 akatsuki ( itachi include )
he is also the one who taugh how to defend against genjutsu , even if naruto didn't really care in the flash back , jiraiya was the one who try to taught him how to counter genjutsu , meaning as a master of naruto , he can defend himself

secondly
kakashi one of the most intelligente and skill ninja of konoha believe that itachi and kisame didn't try to capture naruto because of jiraiya

that same kakashi who was hit by tsukiyumi one shot , and  who knew about itachi power genjutsu , he still believe that jiraiya can protect naruto from them
meaning kakashi knew much more then you , that genjutsu eyes contact won't work as easely on jiraiya

even itachi himself know that very well , that's why he use genjutsu on a woman and not on jiraiya hiself
that woman controled by genjutsu was supposed to make jiraiya busy

so no matter how you slice it , you don't have any argument about that , this is manga fact


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## Shazam (Apr 14, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> This is inspired by a post my good friend made
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Jiraiya (without Sage Mode access) would have to employ LoS blockers such as smoke bombs, summoning's and create some clone diversions once Itachi or Sasuke pulls out MS during a fight to avoid Amaterasu.


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## King1 (Apr 14, 2019)

The amount of bias argument in favor of Jiraiya in this thread is mind blowing


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## Sufex (Apr 14, 2019)

Hi no Ishi said:


> I posted seriously to you and you responded to me sarcastically but now are upset about a tone for the conversation that you yourself set.
> 
> I merely thought you just wanted to have a bit of fun with this and responded accordingly, and I apologize if I misread your signals there, but if you don't want to escalate things to that level then simply don't be the one to start it.
> 
> And pointing out how one is wrong about anime stuff couldn't possibly make you an idiot so please don't ever take it that way from anybody.



Thanks for the friendly points, you are right maybe im too used to having to be defensive here so i was being a bit sarcastic in my initial responses. I apologise.


Hi no Ishi said:


> You keep claiming straw man instead of addressing the actual points here.
> 
> You are the one who pointed out that Naruto was a Rikudo so that's what I responded to.
> 
> You are the one who didn't mention the several other people who could tell a MS jutsu was coming and react to it including Darui, C, and that Samurai so i pointed it out and you still just tried to be flippiant and only respond about the half of them that may suit your point.



Sure, but knowing sasuke switch his eyes to the MS doesnt mean they have the reactions do actively dodge amaterasu



Hi no Ishi said:


> I brought it up in response to you trying to use not sensing Pain as a way to say he didn't have an ability that comes with sage mode.
> Or was that somehow not what you were saying with "Jmans sage mode doesn't have the same sensing naruto does, it never happened and is just fancition because people like to give all Jmans SM feats to naruto, who is flat out superior. Either way this is BASE jiraya"
> 
> Because otherwise there is 0 evidence that he is not a sensor in SM



I dont believe Jman displayed any sensing feats outside of ma and pa (which are not him) however this doesnt matter to the pertaining discussion anyways, so its a moot point really.


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## BlackHeartedImp (Apr 14, 2019)

Hi no Ishi said:


> Does that mean he wasn't falling over tired and surprised that it happened when he blocked?
> 
> What does him scrounging up more chakra over the course of a day and getting some from Kurama later have to do with how wrecked they were beforehand?
> 
> ...


I'm not arguing that Naruto wasn't tired. On the contrary, I'm arguing that he's still capable of performing at a level far above most of the shinobi world *despite* being tired if he pushes himself.

And Itachi sandbagging kinda does belittle a lot of his actions. This is the same guy who sliced off his mom and dad's head after they peacefully surrendered, but couldn't bring himself to murder Sauce. That amaterasu was never meant to kill him, or even seriously damage him since it would go against Itachi's entire plan if killed or maimed Sasuke to the point he couldn't keep fighting. He wanted Sasuke to live and be capable of protecting himself, not be a burn victim cripple for the rest of his life even after Itachi himself died.

We know amaterasu can be used in non-lethal doses anyway, since even rookie MS Sauce could put it out before he thought it'd kill KB and Karin.


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## Hi no Ishi (Apr 14, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> Thanks for the friendly points, you are right maybe im too used to having to be defensive here so i was being a bit sarcastic in my initial responses. I apologise.


It's all good homie. We all do it sometimes. Always feel free to call me out of you think I'm being more hostile than warranted though.


FoboBemo said:


> Sure, but knowing sasuke switch his eyes to the MS doesnt mean they have the reactions do actively dodge amaterasu


Who mentioned dodging it, friend?

I said he can make a seal because non speedsters have reacted to the prep for Amaterasu and blocked and moved repeatedly.

It simply doesn't have the portrayal to one shot a Kage level shit no reaction.


FoboBemo said:


> I dont believe Jman displayed any sensing feats outside of ma and pa (which are not him) however this doesnt matter to the pertaining discussion anyways, so its a moot point really.


He was "one of the best" sages and completed Amphibian Jutsu training which comes after Frog Fu training. 
He is also listed as being able to use Frog Fu, which requires sensing, in the DB.
Sage Mode also naturally comes with SM.
There is 0 reason to say he doesn't have it.

But I do agree that it's moot here.


BlackHeartedImp said:


> I'm not arguing that Naruto wasn't tired. On the contrary, I'm arguing that he's still capable of performing at a level far above most of the shinobi world *despite* being tired if he pushes himself.
> 
> And Itachi sandbagging kinda does belittle a lot of his actions. This is the same guy who sliced off his mom and dad's head after they peacefully surrendered, but couldn't bring himself to murder Sauce. That amaterasu was never meant to kill him, or even seriously damage him since it would go against Itachi's entire plan if killed or maimed Sasuke to the point he couldn't keep fighting. He wanted Sasuke to live and be capable of protecting himself, not be a burn victim cripple for the rest of his life even after Itachi himself died.
> 
> We know amaterasu can be used in non-lethal doses anyway, since even rookie MS Sauce could put it out before he thought it'd kill KB and Karin.


Which has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that Itachi was trying to land Amaterasu right?


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 14, 2019)

No.

Jesus Christ, I never thought Sannin fans were _that _bad till I looked at some posts ITT. 



Hazuki said:


> if kishimoto gave him a move to seal amaterasu then i guess he can manage to deal with it
> jiraiya don't have only seal he has shown some haxx  feat with his shadow ( hiding into a shadow as he shown this when he met  konan in part 2 )
> 
> i think that jiraiya even in base is *enough ( very )  versatil* to deal with amaterasu



Okay, how do you feel he can deal with Amaterasu then? 




Turrin said:


> If Jiraiya hit and can’t severe a limb he’s done, but I do think it’s harder to hit Base Jiraiya with Amaterasu then people make it out to be. Base Jiraiya doesn’t usually fight in a straight forward manner; instead he usually likes to use feints, stealth techs,  traps, or attacking from a range while using combinations with his toads.



This is shocking, but I agree. Now, do you think Jiraiya (base) can anticipate Amaterasu?



Azula said:


> It's a myth that you _*need *_to be a sensor or _*need *_speed to counter it. It was countered by base Naruto outside of any relevant power modes by a tiny amount of protective chakra coating.



How biased can you be? Naruto proves shit because he was using RSM. By the VOTE, Naruto's own body power was activated (of course, you chose to ignore base Naruto turning the dead Zetsu into a tree). And Naruto could form a layer above his body (chakra cloak) which can work similar to Oro's substitution.

There is no comparison here. Unless you think Jiraiya has jutsu like a shrouded Naruto or Oro.



Azula said:


> Amaterasu just needs to be thrown off the body. Jiraiya can manipulate his hair as a protective covering and then shed off the hair on flames.





Hi no Ishi said:


> Can't walk right, falling on his face from exhaustion Rikudo Naruto, yes.
> 
> Killer B, BM B, and Sasuke both reacted to it and neither are sensors or A4 tier speedsters.
> 
> ...



So the two of you think that the solution is that Jiraiya gets his hair burnt? You guys forgot what happened when Itachi tried, the moment Sasuke's wing was caught, half his body was burnt in almost no time.



ShinAkuma said:


> Otherwise I see no reason why he doesn't match it with his own katon or protect himself with wild lions mane.



Jiraiya will use a Katon to protect himself. Did you literally skip Sasuke vs Itachi? 



Azula said:


> So it is fair to use him countering amaterasu as an argument.



No, Jiraiya's hair doesn't work like a chakra shroud, Azula.

Reactions: Like 3


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## ShinAkuma (Apr 14, 2019)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Jiraiya will use a Katon to protect himself. Did you literally skip Sasuke vs Itachi?



No, in fact I posted it. Remember when Sasukes Katon ate up so much of Itachi's amaterasu that Itachi had to cast a second amaterasu?


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## Hi no Ishi (Apr 14, 2019)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> So the two of you think that the solution is that Jiraiya gets his hair burnt? You guys forgot what happened when Itachi tried, the moment Sasuke's wing was caught, half his body was burnt in almost no time.


This would be reasonable if Sasuke could extend his wing super far from his main body and remove it like Jiraiya could but that's not the case here, friend.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 14, 2019)

ShinAkuma said:


> No, in fact I posted it. Remember when Sasukes Katon ate up so much of Itachi's amaterasu that Itachi had to cast a second amaterasu?



Look at the pages again. 

Except he also physically reacted to A
Except he also physically reacted to A

Amaterasu 1 *devoured *Sasuke's Katon. 

Except he also physically reacted to A
Except he also physically reacted to A

The second use was for Sasuke. 

2 Amaterasu needed for Jiraiya's Katon, seriously?


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 14, 2019)

Hi no Ishi said:


> This would be reasonable if Sasuke could extend his wing super far from his main body and remove it like Jiraiya could but that's not the case here, friend.



No, buddy, it isn't reasonable. 

The moment the wing was touched, it took virtually no time for it to envelop and incinerate Sasuke:
Except he also physically reacted to A
Except he also physically reacted to A
Except he also physically reacted to A

Sasuke, as fast as he is, could only really react once the flames almost completely covered him. Compare the bottom left panel of the first link to Sasuke's flashback (top right panel of the second link):
Except he also physically reacted to A
Except he also physically reacted to A


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## ShinAkuma (Apr 14, 2019)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Look at the pages again.
> 
> Except he also physically reacted to A
> Except he also physically reacted to A
> ...



And was left with amaterasu scraps. Went from being the size of a house to basically useless.



> Except he also physically reacted to A
> Except he also physically reacted to A
> 
> The second use was for Sasuke.



Yes we know, I told you a second amaterasu was cast. Probably because the first one was useless after Sasuke's Katon, which BTW beat out Itachi's Katon before it took out most of Itachi's first amaterasu.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 14, 2019)

ShinAkuma said:


> And was left with amaterasu scraps. Went from being the size of a house to basically useless.



No, Shin. It completely enveloped the Katon as Black Zetsu told us.



> Yes we know, I told you a second amaterasu was cast. Probably because the first one was useless after Sasuke's Katon, which BTW beat out Itachi's Katon before it took out most of Itachi's first amaterasu.



Amaterasu works by burning whatever is is in Itachi's field of vision, which was the Katon which it did burn. Even Sasuke never kept Amaterasu running after it hit its initial target -- this is why Kagutsuchi is so superior.

Don't be biased here. Sasuke's Senjutsu Katon did beat Itachi's Katon due to superior chakra quality and quantity, yes we know. Looking at the pages, it clearly didn't take out most of Itachi's first Amaterasu. If you think Jiraiya's Katon can overpower Amaterasu, come out and say it.


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## ShinAkuma (Apr 14, 2019)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> No, Shin. It completely enveloped the Katon as Black Zetsu told us.



"Left with amaterasu scraps"

Except he also physically reacted to A

Nothing you are saying changes anything I pointed out.



> Amaterasu works by burning whatever is is in Itachi's field of vision, which was the Katon which it did burn. Even Sasuke never kept Amaterasu running after it hit its initial target -- this is why Kagutsuchi is so superior.
> 
> Don't be biased here. Sasuke's Senjutsu Katon did beat Itachi's Katon due to superior chakra quality and quantity, yes we know. Looking at the pages, it clearly didn't take out most of Itachi's first Amaterasu. If you think Jiraiya's Katon can overpower Amaterasu, come out and say it.



What is this word salad?

Nothing you are saying has anything to do with what I said.

"*Remember when Sasukes Katon ate up so much of Itachi's amaterasu that Itachi had to cast a second amaterasu?"*

You're just posting irrelevant nonsense.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 14, 2019)

ShinAkuma said:


> "Left with amaterasu scraps"
> 
> Link removed
> 
> Nothing you are saying changes anything I pointed out.



What you point is is worthless in the grand scheme of things, Amaterasu can and will fodderise any Katon that Jiraiya uses.



> What is this word salad?
> 
> Nothing you are saying has anything to do with what I said.
> 
> ...



I know you're trying to imply Jiraiya can use Katon to counter Amaterasu; you know that you're trying to imply Jiraiya can use Katon to counter Amaterasu. 

The line you quoted, what's the purpose do you think Jiraiya's Katon can actually threaten Amaterasu? If I'm wrong, please tell me what you're trying to suggest.

Reactions: Like 2


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## ShinAkuma (Apr 14, 2019)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> What you point is is worthless in the grand scheme of things,



Everything you post is worthless in the grand scheme of things, yet here we are......



> Amaterasu can and will fodderise any Katon that Jiraiya uses.



And potentially end up in the same useless state it did against Sasuke.



> I know you're trying to imply Jiraiya can use Katon to counter Amaterasu; you know that you're trying to imply Jiraiya can use Katon to counter Amaterasu.



Sure.

We have seen what a katon can do to amaterasu in canon. It's up to each individual to determine if Jiraiya's katons can outperform Sasuke's or not.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 14, 2019)

ShinAkuma said:


> Everything you post is worthless in the grand scheme of things, yet here we are......



Hard to take you seriously when you're trying to say Katon>Amaterasu. The bias is actually real. 



> And potentially end up in the same useless state it did against Sasuke.



Let's not be dishonest here. You know it obliterated the Katon as intended... did you forget how Amaterasu works?



> Sure.
> 
> We have seen what a katon can do to amaterasu in canon. It's up to each individual to determine if Jiraiya's katons can outperform Sasuke's or not.



So you're basically saying you think Jiraiya's Katon can outperform Sasuke's and overcome Amaterasu?

Reactions: Like 2


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## Sufex (Apr 14, 2019)

After much deliberation and after hearing arguments form both sides, i can come to the answer: No , jiraya is fucked.


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## ShinAkuma (Apr 14, 2019)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Hard to take you seriously when you're trying to say Katon>Amaterasu. The bias is actually real.



I don't think anybody takes anything you say seriously anymore. Ever since your Jiraiya induced PTSD you are a living meme.



> Let's not be dishonest here. You know it obliterated the Katon as intended... did you forget how Amaterasu works?



Let's not be dishonest here. You know amaterasu was useless after being eaten up by sasuke's katon.......did you forget how canon works?



> So you're basically saying you think Jiraiya's Katon can outperform Sasuke's and overcome Amaterasu?



I think Jiraiya could at least match Sauce's katons.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 14, 2019)

ShinAkuma said:


> I don't think anybody takes anything you say seriously anymore. Ever since your Jiraiya induced PTSD you are a living meme.



Says the dude who thinks Jiraiya's Katon can overpower Amaterasu. 



> Let's not be dishonest here. You know amaterasu was useless after being eaten up by sasuke's katon.......did you forget how canon works?



It seems you forgot how canon works. "Amaterasu was useless after being eatedn up by Sasuke's Katon"... so Sasuke's Katon devoured Amaterasu? 



> I think Jiraiya could at least match Sauce's katons.



And beat Amaterasu... Don't worry Shin, I know what you're getting at.

Reactions: Like 2


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## ShinAkuma (Apr 14, 2019)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Says the dude who thinks Jiraiya's Katon can overpower Amaterasu.



Still a lying troll machine.

No need to wonder why nobody takes you seriously anymore.




> It seems you forgot how canon works. "Amaterasu was useless after being eatedn up by Sasuke's Katon"... so Sasuke's Katon devoured Amaterasu?



Amaterasu was still around but not useful. So technically amaterasu devoured Sasuke's katon but required most of it's juice to do so.



> And beat Amaterasu... Don't worry Shin, I know what you're getting at.



It's no secret. All my posts are here to read.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 14, 2019)

ShinAkuma said:


> Still a lying troll machine.
> 
> No need to wonder why nobody takes you seriously anymore.



Hard to take you seriously with "Sasuke's Katon ate most of Amaterasu". 



> Amaterasu was still around but not useful. So technically amaterasu devoured Sasuke's katon but required most of it's juice to do so.
> 
> It's no secret. All my posts are here to read.



Ninja talks about serious posts while saying Amaterasu is useless. Well, this level of bias takes dedication, I'll give that to you. Come back to me when you've got an argument which isn't so blatantly influenced by Jiraiya fan bias.


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## ShinAkuma (Apr 14, 2019)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Hard to take you seriously with "Sasuke's Katon ate most of Amaterasu".



Manga panels are there. Anybody can see for themselves.



> Come back to me when



I never came to you to begin with.

You came to me lol


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 14, 2019)

ShinAkuma said:


> Manga panels are there. Anybody can see for themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I thought you had something to substantiate your argument. Instead your evidence involved the wrong interpretation of the manga panels with an even more wrong conclusion. I'm assuming you've not lost your touch, so I'll wait until you get back to me with why you think Jiraiya's Katon can threaten Amaterasu.


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## ShinAkuma (Apr 14, 2019)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> I thought you had something to substantiate your argument



I did, I do, I have.

PTSD is a helluva drug.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 14, 2019)

ShinAkuma said:


> I did, I do, I have.
> 
> PTSD is a helluva drug.



Oh, sorry. I forgot your main substance was Jiraiya Katon>Amaterasu.


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## Hi no Ishi (Apr 14, 2019)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> No, buddy, it isn't reasonable.
> 
> The moment the wing was touched, it took virtually no time for it to envelop and incinerate Sasuke:
> but this sure does
> ...


Hitting a part close to your torso that isn't moving =/= hitting hair that is moving away steadily. 
We can see from the Samurai and Konan that it doesn't just burn things away instantly so it doesn't matter if it takes up a good portion of his body sized hair that won't even be close to him. It won't burn fast enough to do anything but waste Itachi's chakra.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 14, 2019)

Hi no Ishi said:


> Hitting a part close to your torso that isn't moving =/= hitting hair that is moving away steadily.
> We can see from the Samurai and Konan that it doesn't just burn things away instantly so it doesn't matter if it takes up a good portion of his body sized hair that won't even be close to him. It won't burn fast enough to do anything but waste Itachi's chakra.



We can see from the samurai that it lingers when the user does not focus on the target and we can see from Sasuke and Danzo that the target is incinerated when the user does focus. 

Jiraiya's hair doesn't grow faster than Amaterasu will incinerate. I have to seriously underestimate Amaterasu to assume your counter works. Itachi has low chakra capacity, but he has enough to incinerate Jiraiya with Amaterasu.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Serene Grace (Apr 14, 2019)

BlackHeartedImp said:


> not be a burn victim cripple


I mean he did put him in an indefinite coma without having any possible way of knowing Tsunade could and would heal him


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## BlackHeartedImp (Apr 14, 2019)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> I mean he did put him in an indefinite coma without having any possible way of knowing Tsunade could and would heal him


Don't blame me, blame Kishi   Should've made Itachi less brutal in part I.


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## Mithos (Apr 14, 2019)

LIBU said:


> No matter how you slice it if j-man makes contact with itachi's eye in any scenario he will get genjutsued!



Just like how everyone who noticed the change from 3T to MS got caught in _Sharingan: Genjutsu_.

Oh wait...


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## LIBU (Apr 15, 2019)

Matto said:


> Just like how everyone who noticed the change from 3T to MS got caught in _Sharingan: Genjutsu_.
> 
> Oh wait...


you should read/watch bee vs sasuke


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## ShinAkuma (Apr 15, 2019)

LIBU said:


> you should read/watch bee vs sasuke


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## Orochimaruwantsyourbody (Apr 15, 2019)

If it starts with no knowledge of Amaterasu with Jiraiya out in the open and his opponent is allowed to launch follow up attacks, Jiraiya probably goes down. 

Under other circumstances, clones and LoS blockers would make landing a hit on base Jiraiya more difficulty but Jiraiya would still need to achieve SM in order to stand up to either Amaterasu user, Sasuke or Itachi.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Azula (Apr 15, 2019)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> How biased can you be? Naruto proves shit because he was using RSM. By the VOTE, Naruto's own body power was activated (of course, you chose to ignore base Naruto turning the dead Zetsu into a tree). And Naruto could form a layer above his body (chakra cloak) which can work similar to Oro's substitution.
> 
> There is no comparison here. Unless you think Jiraiya has jutsu like a shrouded Naruto or Oro.



RSM Naruto's power is similar Orochimaru who is scrub tier by comparison? 

All of your drama about biasness is just projection.

It's amazing you typed RSM Naruto and Orochimaru in the same sentence and not once think there might be something wrong with it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Atlantic Storm (Apr 15, 2019)

Base Jiraiya is stronger than Itachi and Kisame together, so I can't imagine him having any difficulty with Amaterasu.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 15, 2019)

Azula said:


> RSM Naruto's power is similar Orochimaru who is scrub tier by comparison?
> 
> All of your drama about biasness is just projection.
> 
> It's amazing you typed RSM Naruto and Orochimaru in the same sentence and not once think there might be something wrong with it.



Not gonna lie Azule, your point doesn't look great when you legit suggested that Jiraiya counters Amaterasu by getting burnt by it. 

I'm impressed you know the word "projection", though, throwing it around doesn't compensate for your biased logic. I mean look at you, you couldn't even read the post properly, came to a wrong conclusion _*while *_telling us to counter Amaterasu, Jiraiya needs to become a burn victim. That last one still cracks me up. 

Now tell me, does Jiraiya have a jutsu like oral rebirth or a chakra shroud? And don't tell me he has to become a burn victim (let his hair burn ) to counter Amaterasu. I'll laugh at you even more if you pull a ShinAkuma and suggest there's a chance Jiraiya's Katon will overpower Amaterasu.


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## Azula (Apr 15, 2019)

Naruto is not in RSM. You are wrong if you believe he is in RSM. That is base Naruto.

You have wrong beliefs and *then on top* of those wrong beliefs you have such hypocrisy, but then again the hypocrisy part is just a regular feature of your posts.


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## LostSelf (Apr 15, 2019)

No, he can't. Unless he has Oral Rebirth or something like that.


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## Sufex (Apr 15, 2019)

LostSelf said:


> No, he can't. Unless he has Oral Rebirth or something like that.


Jiraya? oral rebirth? am i missing something


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 15, 2019)

Azula said:


> Naruto is not in RSM. You are wrong if you believe he is in RSM. That is base Naruto.
> 
> You have wrong beliefs and *then on top* of those wrong beliefs you have such hypocrisy, but then again the hypocrisy part is just a regular feature of your posts.



Stop being biased, Naruto, like Asura clearly obtained the "bodily chakra power" that Hagoromo cited. Which is why base Naruto turned a Zetsu corpse into a tree like base Hashirama did.

Base Naruto - Page 3

Base Hashirama - Page 3

FYI, that was only something Naruto could do with KCM previously, so there was an obvious power up.

Honey, your post will hold more weight if you actually read the posts (hint: no-one said Naruto was in RSM) before you reply to them and if you stopped dishonestly presenting facts.

I'm still cracking up at your whole stance: Jiraiya needs to be burnt by Amaterasu to counter Amaterasu. How are you failing to see how ridiculous that sounds?


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## Azula (Apr 15, 2019)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Stop being biased, Naruto, like Asura clearly obtained the "bodily chakra power" that Hagoromo cited. Which is why base Naruto turned a Zetsu corpse into a tree like base Hashirama did.
> 
> Base Naruto - erecting a Suiton barrier and using it to his advantage
> 
> Base Hashirama - erecting a Suiton barrier and using it to his advantage



This is something happening due to ET release, and the bodies being zetsu clones. Zetsu clones being influenced by the leaving Hokage's chakra. (Not consciously by the Hokage since it serves no purpose but unconsciously)

Naruto is not doing anything here.

Dan also gave a refill of chakra to Tsunade at ET release.

Why did you ever jump to the conclusion that Naruto is doing anything here.

And to add, this is merely symbolic, young trees/leaves are heavily used in symbolism, the past generation leaving things to new generation etc etc. You could write 3 paragraphs on this.

But to think this is something related to RSM.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 15, 2019)

Azula said:


> This is something happening due to ET release, and the bodies being zetsu clones. Zetsu clones being influenced by the leaving Hokage's chakra. (Not consciously by the Hokage since it serves no purpose but unconsciously)



Yet only Hashirama's Zetsu-ET host became a tree as did Minato's Edo host which was right next to Naruto. Hiruzen and Tobirama's did not. A detail you choose to miss out.



> Naruto is not doing anything here.
> 
> Dan also gave a refill of chakra to Tsunade at ET release.



If you read the manga like you read posts, I can see why you have such a flawed understanding. Did I say Naruto did anything? What does Dan giving Tsuande a chakra top up have to do with anything?



> Why did you ever jump to the conclusion that Naruto is doing anything here.



That's a conclusion you made up.



> And to add, this is merely symbolic, young trees/leaves are heavily used in symbolism, the past generation leaving things to new generation etc etc. You could write 3 paragraphs on this.



Yeah, no. That only happened with the 2 Asura transmigrants; one of which it only happened when in KCM, now he replicated the effect in his base. 



> But to think this is something related to RSM.



Who said it is related to RSM? Don't pull a Shazam/JuicyG by failing to read what you quote before you reply. 

I'll wait for a reply, feel free to consult the Sannin/Jiraiya fan group chat if you require assistance.


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## Sufex (Apr 15, 2019)

Azula said:


> But to think this is something related to RSM.


 I thought you were talking about EOS Base naruto, not RSM


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 15, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> I thought you were talking about EOS Base naruto, not RSM



Azula doesn't even know what she's talking about anymore.


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## Azula (Apr 15, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> I thought you were talking about EOS Base naruto, not RSM



That line is me expressing disbelief that Munboy thinks Naruto's RSM has anything to do with ET release.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 15, 2019)

Azula said:


> That line is me expressing disbelief that Munboy thinks Naruto's RSM has anything to do with ET release.



I wanna know where I said anything about RSM. Don't worry, I'll wait.


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## Hi no Ishi (Apr 15, 2019)

Blu-ray said:


> Precisely. How is seeing Sasuke switch to MS (assuming he'd even risk looking into his eyes) going to tell him when Amaterasu is being cast? It's not like he activates it only when ready to fire Amaterasu and deactivates it right after. He keeps MS active continuously.


No not really. He only activated it when he was going to use it in both the Killer B fight and the FKS. He kept it on longer vs Danzo but he also was spamming the whole time.
But he starts the B fight in base and the FKS battle with the normal Sharingan and people obviously notice when a Amaterasu coming pretty much every time they're actually in battle


Blu-ray said:


> Furthermore, how many Shinobi have _physically_ responded to Amaterasu? Because the overwhelming majority counter it after being hit.


Still no not really.  It has been blocked and reacted to repeatedly.


Blu-ray said:


> Hebi Sasuke? Started running before it was even cast and countered after being hit.


Yes because he like  C, , ,  saw he was about to use the MS and had time to move they're hands and talk. 
Again even that  who got hit had time to scream and block. It just that its not like the dude has options there. 

Y'all act like no one can see someone's eye change and start bleeding or that there is no build-up when that's never once been how it's portrayed.



Blu-ray said:


> Killer Bee? After being hit.



Quite the opposite actually 

Killer B blocked with his tail that started behind him the very first time he had ever seen or heard of Amaterasu, and had time to throw a  at a bird in the sky before it went off when he was warned the second time.

So two more blocks and again the first one had no knowledge as well.


Blu-ray said:


> Obito? Countered after being hit.


Sure he did. From a suprise attack while not in battle. Later when he is attacked with it again in actual battle with his Sharingan on he sees the build up.


Blu-ray said:


> Madara,


Also a sneak attack, but this time mid convo and from behind.

Is your point that Jiraiya could be sneak attacked by it while out of combat? Because that works for most things.


Blu-ray said:


> , Nagato,


The one who  the build up and called it out to others who all reacted before it went off??
And got taken over by Kabuto because he was  so hard, and instantly negged it?

This just further proves my point.


Blu-ray said:


> Kaguya


Lol 


Blu-ray said:


> Ay is the only person to outright dodge, and Juubito and Naruto were the only persons to block it, and they all have evasive and defensive measures Jiraiya lacks. "Other people can do it so Jiraiya can too" simply isn't an argument.


This simply just isn't true as you can see above.

Amaterasu has never been portrayed as an attack no one can see coming or react to like y'all are trying to make it. 

The truth is everyone can see the eye change and bleed and knows an attack is coming even from it's very first use on Sasuke.

Jiraiya knows about two things from Itachi that he cannot explain. The first is the black Flames that ate through his fireproof toad throat, and the second is whatever genjutsu put Kakashi and Sasuke in the hospital. 
But somehow unlike everybody else who sees the  eye change and start bleeding Jiraiya is going to stand there and not use his go-to defense for absolutely no reason. And by go to I mean he has used it to defend himself in both of his actual battles.

That makes no sense. 

Amaterasu simply does not have the portrayal to one shot a Kage level before they can even move.

Reactions: Like 2


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 15, 2019)

No

And the piss poor arguments in here dont mean shit towards suggesting he can either

SM Jiraiya is too slow to do shit to Amaterasu, and feats and portrayal blatantly indicate as such

People just have a hard time wrapping their minds around their fav getting oneshotted in what THE FANS have deemed a "controversial and close fight" in shit like Itachi vs Jiraiya...Which was NEVER portrayed as a close fight AFTER we saw what Itachi was actually capable of...

Its just incredulity

The entire opposition just goes "Well how in the hell can it be a close fight if one guy oneshots the other!? So CLEARLY Jiraiya can deal with it SOMEHOW!"

Meanwhile...It NEVER WAS indicated to be a close fight

Itachi slapping Sannin with his dickmeat at age 13 should have been a firm indicator of that

But here we are...2019...And some misguided fools genuinely think Itachi is merely Sannin level when hes been portrayed WILDLY above it at every turn...

Reactions: Like 2


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 15, 2019)

WorldsStrongest said:


> No
> 
> And the piss poor arguments in here dont mean shit towards suggesting he can either
> 
> ...




Just to note, the people who disliked your post, rated it as funny and optimistic believe the following:

- Jiraiya can defeat Nagato, not just Pain, but Nagato
- Jiraiya can counter Amaterasu by being burnt by it
- Jiraiya doesn't need to be a sensor to detect Amaterasu
- Jiraiya can use Yomi Numa from the get go, but characters such as Kakashi aren't allowed to use Kamui when needed vs Jiraiya
- Jiraiya can beat Orochimaru

The second one still cracks me up.


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## BlackHeartedImp (May 15, 2020)

ShinAkuma said:


> Really?
> 
> Sasuke's katon, after overpowering Itachi's, ate up most of Itachi's amaterasu.
> 
> ...


Shin you've said some crazy shit but this by far still the craziest over a year later. Man, I ws a year closer to my prime here. Good memories.


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## ShinAkuma (May 15, 2020)

BlackHeartedImp said:


> Shin you've said some crazy shit but this by far still the craziest over a year later. Man, I ws a year closer to my prime here. Good memories.



The amaterasu stuff?

At least I only noted he cast a second amaterasu *per canon*, some Itachi fans say he cast 4 of them there 

However if you are pining for a rematch I'm still here


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## Shazam (May 15, 2020)

Depends on the situation, intel, the distance etc


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## BlackHeartedImp (May 15, 2020)

ShinAkuma said:


> The amaterasu stuff?
> 
> At least I only noted he cast a second amaterasu *per canon*, some Itachi fans say he cast 4 of them there
> 
> However if you are pining for a rematch I'm still here


Shin, I love you man, but we're not reading the same manga if I'm correct in my understanding of what you wrote. Itachi did cast two amaterasu, but the second one had nothing to do with Sasuke's katon. You can clearly see his first one Sasuke's fire style, and then he shuts it off himself by closing his eye. The second one was cast when Sasuke started .


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## ShinAkuma (May 15, 2020)

BlackHeartedImp said:


> Shin, I love you man, but we're not reading the same manga if I'm correct in my understanding of what you wrote.



Actually I'm reading *the manga*.

Unless you think Sasuke's katon didn't overpower Itachi's? Or maybe you think Itachi's amaterasu didn't shrink? Or is it you think he didn't cast a second amaterasu?

I will let you decide what didn't happen there.



> Itachi did cast two amaterasu, but the second one had nothing to do with Sasuke's katon. You can clearly see his first one Sasuke's fire style, and then he shuts it off. The second one was cast when Sasuke started .



I already covered this?

Too bad scans get edited out after time.



How big is that amaterasu? What do you think happened to it? Just decided to shrink by 90% for fun?



It's so small at this point that Itachi felt it nessesary to cast another one.


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## t0xeus (May 15, 2020)

He can't react to it so he is getting lit

If it catches only his hair, he might be able to do something thanks to his hair techs

Any other body part and he's dead though


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## Kisame (May 15, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> He can't react to it so he is getting lit
> 
> If it catches only his hair, he might be able to do something thanks to his hair techs
> 
> Any other body part and he's dead though


Well it will only catch his hair if it's covering large parts of his front, which only happens if he reacts and uses his Hari Jizo - which he likely can't pull off in time.


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## BlackHeartedImp (May 15, 2020)

ShinAkuma said:


> Actually I'm reading *the manga*.
> 
> Unless you think Sasuke's katon didn't overpower Itachi's? Or maybe you think Itachi's amaterasu didn't shrink? Or is it you think he didn't cast a second amaterasu?
> 
> ...


Amaterasu shrinking has nothing to do with Sasuke's katon though. We're told a few pages over that Itachi can stop amaterasu when he pleases, which is exactly what he did after it ate Sasuke's katon (notice him closing his eye in the scan I posted?) 


. 

There's more than one example of this, even. Bee-fight Sasuke, who had used amaterasu for only the first time and had considerably less mastery of his MS than his brother, was still able to put out amaterasu when it hit and shortly afterward again for .

Reactions: Like 1


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## ShinAkuma (May 15, 2020)

BlackHeartedImp said:


> Amaterasu shrinking has nothing to do with Sasuke's katon though.



It definitely has something to do with it.

I will show you why.



> We're told a few pages over that Itachi can stop amaterasu when he pleases, which is exactly what he did after it ate Sasuke's katon (notice him closing his eye in the scan I posted?)
> 
> 
> .



Nobody is arguing that Itachi _can't extinguish amaterasu _ tho? I won't bother responding to evidence of such as I never said he couldn't. (Strawman)

Your interpretation would be reasonable if it wasn't for the fact that Itachi *cast another amaterasu on the page after his first one shrunk*.

There would be no point in shrinking the first one only to cast a second one that still wasn't as big as your first one.

That's just nonsensical. It's far more reasonable to interpret the scene as Ama is able to overcome other katons but at the cost of much of it's volume.

The other possibility is Itachi must "sustain" the size of his amaterasu via eyesight, so that if he closes his eye it shrinks down in size. (this would imply the "second amaterasu" is actually just Itachi asserting control over the existing flames) Which is possible but also *functionally no different than my original observation* as Itachi must let off the gas in order to recover. So either the katon forces the black flames to be consumed or large katons force Itachi to recover before he can burn the target to death with the much smaller flames.


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## Zero890 (May 15, 2020)

Jman takes his clothes off, that never fails.


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## ShinAkuma (May 15, 2020)

Zero890 said:


> Jman takes his clothes off, that never fails.



Always a solid in-canon option.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 15, 2020)

My deduction : Amerterasu seems to spawn on (or near) it's target within a certain range.  If it's misses, it Keeps traveling past that point until it hits something.

I don't think a samurai reacted to it, like one of the numskulls above me suggested, more that he flinched upon being hit.

It's fast enough that A4 is needing his V2 mode, a body flicker charged with Bijou level charka, to narrowly evade and the user can seemingly charge the flames at one point, and discharge later.

Obviously jman dies.


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## Gin Ichimaru (May 15, 2020)

Jiraiya dies with what he's shown, but if Kishi wrote the fight he'd probably write in a technique for Jiraiya to counter it because no way is he gonna let J-man get one-shot by it


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## zaddyxx22 (May 15, 2020)

lions mane gg or take off clothes no jutsu gg

Reactions: Like 1


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## ShinAkuma (May 15, 2020)

zaddyxx22 said:


> lions mane gg or take off clothes no jutsu gg



If there is anybody in the Narutoverse who can take off his clothes hands free it's Jiraiya.


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## Mawt (May 15, 2020)

Zero890 said:


> Jman takes his clothes off, that never fails.


Put your clothes back on lewdman


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## ShinAkuma (May 15, 2020)

Mawt said:


> Put your clothes back on lewdman



Blame amaterasu for stripping nude as being the ultimate defense against it.


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## Mawt (May 15, 2020)

@ShinAkuma @BlackHeartedImp Itachi's fire dissipated because Amaterasu only stays until it's extinguished whatever it's in contact with.  As commented on by BZ, Amaterasu was hot enough to put out Sasuke's fire. Amaterasu disappeared because it was done burning that fire up. So technically, Amaterasu can be stopped by a fireball, but not because of the fireball's own power. Rather, it's because of how Amaterasu functions.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ShinAkuma (May 15, 2020)

Mawt said:


> @ShinAkuma @BlackHeartedImp Itachi's fire dissipated because Amaterasu only stays until it's extinguished whatever it's in contact with.  As commented on by BZ, Amaterasu was hot enough to put out Sasuke's fire. Amaterasu disappeared because it was done burning that fire up. So technically, Amaterasu can be stopped by a fireball, but not because of the fireball's own power. Rather, it's because of how Amaterasu functions.



I uh....literally offered that as an option...


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## Mawt (May 15, 2020)

ShinAkuma said:


> I uh....literally offered that as an option...


My bad, I didn't read the posts fully. Just skimmed through them


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## ShinAkuma (May 15, 2020)

Mawt said:


> My bad, I didn't read the posts fully. Just skimmed through them


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## Onda Vital (May 15, 2020)

Gin Ichimaru said:


> Jiraiya dies with what he's shown, but if Kishi wrote the fight he'd probably write in a technique for Jiraiya to counter it because no way is he gonna let J-man get one-shot by it


Basically this.

The same way Kishi couldn't let blind Madara get oneshot by amateratsu so he pulled some non rinnegan absorbtion.


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## Speedyamell (May 15, 2020)

Possibly. He can shield himself with lion's mane and then seal the fire away


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## Onyx Emperor (May 15, 2020)

Mm, yes? he has the scroll thing that absorbs amaterasu.
He will be injured, though.


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## Yumi Zoro (May 15, 2020)

BlackHeartedImp said:


> Shin, I love you man, but we're not reading the same manga if I'm correct in my understanding of what you wrote. Itachi did cast two amaterasu, but the second one had nothing to do with Sasuke's katon. You can clearly see his first one Sasuke's fire style, and then he shuts it off himself by closing his eye.



Right


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## ShinAkuma (May 15, 2020)

redboy776 said:


> Right



Are you conceding?


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## Trojan (May 15, 2020)

who keeps reviving those old threads?


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## ShinAkuma (May 15, 2020)

Hussain said:


> who keeps reviving those old threads?



Salt keeps reviving them


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## Yumi Zoro (May 15, 2020)

ShinAkuma said:


> Are you conceding?


Lol no, what @BlackHeartedImp, Say about Amaterasu was true.


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## Trojan (May 15, 2020)

tbh, itachi's genjutsu is extremely powerful. Even after 15+ years of failure and defeat
he still manage to fool his fanboys into believing that Amaterasu worth shit 

I wish Minato's sealing jutsu was as strong and seals his downplayers away...  
oh well...


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## ShinAkuma (May 15, 2020)

redboy776 said:


> Lol no, what @BlackHeartedImp, Say about Amaterasu was true.



No what I said was true.

@BlackHeartedImp are you going to address the points? Are you done here?


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## Yumi Zoro (May 15, 2020)

ShinAkuma said:


> No what I said was true.
> 
> @BlackHeartedImp are you going to address the points? Are you done here?


@BlackHeartedImp state that Amaterasu can be cancelled by the user wish IS true. It's what Itachi did when he overpowered Sasuke's katon.


Before casting another Amaterasu, something Hebi Sasuke was unable to avoid even with his Curse mark.


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## ShinAkuma (May 15, 2020)

redboy776 said:


> @BlackHeartedImp state that Amaterasu can be cancelled by the user wish IS true. It's what Itachi did when he overpowered Sasuke's katon.
> 
> 
> Before casting another Amaterasu, something Hebi Sasuke was unable to avoid even with his Curse mark.


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## Maverick04 (May 15, 2020)

Nice. So base Jiraiya can react to something even KCM Naruto and SM Kabuto couldn't react to and also survive after being hit by it? That's a new low.


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## Yumi Zoro (May 15, 2020)

Are you conceding?


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## ShinAkuma (May 15, 2020)

redboy776 said:


> Are you conceding?



No.

Nothing you are saying makes sense.

If @BlackHeartedImp want to continue my points are still waiting.


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## Yumi Zoro (May 15, 2020)

ShinAkuma said:


> No.
> 
> Nothing you are saying makes sense.
> 
> If @BlackHeartedImp want to continue my points are still waiting.



lol, I gave you proof for everything I Say, and you are still in denial.


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## ShinAkuma (May 15, 2020)

redboy776 said:


> lol, I gave you proof for everything I Say, and you are still in denial.



I said it doesn't make sense.

It doesn't make sense because *It's not relevant*.



ShinAkuma said:


> Nobody is arguing that Itachi _can't extinguish amaterasu _tho? I won't bother responding to evidence of such as I never said he couldn't. (Strawman)


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## Yumi Zoro (May 15, 2020)

ShinAkuma said:


> I said it doesn't make sense.
> 
> It doesn't make sense because *It's not relevant*.



Whatever, I dont see any chance for Jiraya to avoid Amaterasu at point blank range.


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## ShinAkuma (May 15, 2020)

redboy776 said:


> Whatever, I dont see any chance for Jiraya to avoid Amaterasu at point blank range.







@BlackHeartedImp Are you gonna let your Padawan die on the vine like that?


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## Final Jutsu (May 15, 2020)

he wears a lot of clothes, so just take some off like Karin/Madara/Samurai, etc?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Yumi Zoro (May 15, 2020)

ShinAkuma said:


> @BlackHeartedImp Are you gonna let your Padawan die on the vine like that?


Yes and what now ?
Stop with these nonsense and give me a serious answer


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## ShinAkuma (May 15, 2020)

redboy776 said:


> Yes and what now ?
> Stop with these nonsense and give me a serious answer


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## Yumi Zoro (May 15, 2020)

Ok, concession accepted.


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## ShinAkuma (May 15, 2020)

redboy776 said:


> Ok, conceding accepted.


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## Yumi Zoro (May 15, 2020)

You seriously need help


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## Yumi Zoro (May 15, 2020)

Maverick04 said:


> Nice. So base Jiraiya can react to something even KCM Naruto and SM Kabuto couldn't react to and also survive after being hit by it? That's a new low.



It's what they are implying with this thread tbh. The Sanin wank IS definitely out of control.


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## Trojan (May 15, 2020)

redboy776 said:


> It's what they are implying with this thread tbh. The Sanin wank IS definitely out of control.


you know his post is full of shit, right?


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## Trojan (May 15, 2020)

redboy776 said:


> how come?


KCM Naruto > A > Amaterasu
and Amaterasu do not even affect Naruto as we have seen at the VOTE2 where he protected himself from it.

Neither Naruto nor Kabuto have to react to anything when they were not even the target 

even if they were the targets, they don't have to care about something that does not even affect them in any way. 
KCM for Naruto, and oral rebirth for Kabuto.

Trashterasu was no threat in any way, shape, or form.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ShinAkuma (May 15, 2020)

redboy776 said:


> You seriously need help


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## Yumi Zoro (May 15, 2020)

Hussain said:


> KCM Naruto > A > Amaterasu
> and Amaterasu do not even affect Naruto as we have seen at the VOTE2 where he protected himself from it.
> 
> Neither Naruto nor Kabuto have to react to anything when they were not even the target
> ...



Do you see all the gym made to state that?

The fact Sage Kabuto and KCM Naruto did not react to Amaterasu *IS enough proof that Base Jiraya will be one-shoted by it. *

But Jiraya can create a human sized Rasengan to Shield himself from Amaterasu and Attack at the same time. But that IS Something Jiraya cant do without Sage Mode and the assistance of Pa and Ma.


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## Trojan (May 15, 2020)

redboy776 said:


> The fact Sage Kabuto and KCM Naruto did not react to Amaterasu *IS enough proof that Base Jiraya will be one-shoted by it.*


no, it's not. 

your post is just bullshit. 

That's like saying 
"Well, since Edo Asspulldara got hit by Onoki's Jinton, IS enough proof that Asspulldara/Hashirama will be one-shotted by it" 

when Asspulldara didn't care since he was a mere ET. 

not to mention that you act as if Naruto & Kabuto were hit by Amaterasu, to begin with, when that did not even happen.


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## Yumi Zoro (May 15, 2020)

May god have pity of your lost soul.


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## ShinAkuma (May 15, 2020)

redboy776 said:


> May go have pity of your lost soul.


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## Yumi Zoro (May 15, 2020)

Hussain said:


> no, it's not.
> 
> your post is just bullshit.
> 
> ...



@Hussain this IS not even debatable. The first time Itachi used Amaterasu against Jiraya, he was able to easily destroy his Toad stomach. And this IS Base Jiraya IS best defense.

In a serious fight against Jiraya, Itachi wont target his toad, nor would he play with him like last Time. If Jiraya dont go directly in SM and dare fight him in base, he IS done for. *Amaterasu solo him without plot nerf.*


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## Trojan (May 15, 2020)

redboy776 said:


> @Hussain this IS not even debatable. The first time Itachi used Amaterasu against Jiraya, he was able to easily destroy his Toad stomach. And this IS Base Jiraya IS best defense.


actually the toad stomach is an offensive move, not defensive. 




redboy776 said:


> In a serious fight against Jiraya, Itachi wont target his toad, nor would he play with him like last Time. If Jiraya dont go directly in SM and dare fight him in base, he IS done for. *Amaterasu solo him without plot nerf.*


without plot nerf Jiraiya has Kawarimi jutsu.. 
and so do all Academy students


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## Muah (May 15, 2020)

I think the real question is could amaterasu ever work on jiriya. As amTerasu has never worked on anyone as far as defeating them.


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## Trojan (May 15, 2020)

Muah said:


> I think the real question is could amaterasu ever work on jiriya. As amTerasu has never worked on anyone as far as defeating them.


it did defeat itachi's crow. 

That's its best feat in the manga...


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## Yumi Zoro (May 15, 2020)

Hussain said:


> without plot nerf Jiraiya has Kawarimi jutsu..
> and so do all Academy students



Say it loud for Kishi to hear


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## Trojan (May 15, 2020)

redboy776 said:


> Say it loud for Kishi to hear


he did.

You know, the same way B & Sasuke trolled that garbage move. ck

Only itachi's wankers believe that garbage can do something... 


Kishi never believed it in the first place...

I mean, did you even read the manga? ck


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## Yumi Zoro (May 15, 2020)

Hussain said:


> he did.
> 
> You know, the same way B & Sasuke trolled that garbage move. ck
> 
> ...



Lol, if you are the one to write Naruto, No one will ever die because Kawarimi GG will be too broken.


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## Trojan (May 15, 2020)

redboy776 said:


> Lol, if you are the one to write Naruto, No one will ever die because Kawarimi GG will be too broken.


Well, you were the one who said "with no plot nerf" 


otherwise, can you tell us what "human" character did that garbage ever defeat? 
because I can't think of any...


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## Yumi Zoro (May 15, 2020)

Hussain said:


> Well, you were the one who said "with no plot nerf"
> 
> 
> otherwise, can you tell us what "human" character did that garbage ever defeat?
> because I can't think of any...



It never killed anyone same way Rasen shuriken, Kirin, Hirodura never killed anyone. 
Amaterasu definitely solo Jiraya's ass.


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## Trojan (May 15, 2020)

redboy776 said:


> It never killed anyone same way Rasen shuriken, Kirin, Hirodura never killed anyone.
> Amaterasu definitely solo Jiraya's ass.


FRS erased Pain's body and only left an eye of him... 

*Spoiler*: _1_ 




*Link Removed*
*Link Removed*

*Link Removed*




it also killed 2 of Kakuzu's hearts 


Kirin was only ever used 1 time.


Where Trash-terasu was used like a million times on a million different characters. All of which have failed. 




redboy776 said:


> Amaterasu definitely solo Jiraya's ass.


After or before the Kawarimi? 

or perhaps you prefer Jman sealing it as he did in the manga?


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## Zero890 (May 15, 2020)

Hussain said:


> After or before the Kawarimi?
> 
> or perhaps you prefer Jman sealing it as he did in the manga?





Jman doesn't need to avoid Ama cause he can take off his clothes or Yomi Numa one shots before Ama comes out


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## Trojan (May 15, 2020)

Zero890 said:


> Jman doesn't need to avoid Ama cause he can take off his clothes or Yomi Numa one shots before Ama comes out


itachi's fanboys:

"Yes, X or Y may have some counters, but they won't use it so we can feel better about ourselves"


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## Yumi Zoro (May 15, 2020)

Hussain said:


> FRS erased Pain's body and only left an eye of him...
> 
> *Spoiler*: _1_
> 
> ...



Yes, Rasen shuriken Killed someone who was already a dead body controled by Nagato. Aside from destroying Kakuzu's hearth, the later was still alive and only finished by Kakashi.

Kirin was used against War arc Naruto. So it was two Time, not only one.

I can also Say that Amaterasu Killed  Danzo one time, some Zetsus and a snake that would have able Orochimaru to survive the fight against Itachi.


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## Trojan (May 15, 2020)

redboy776 said:


> Yes, Rasen shuriken Killed someone who was already a dead body controled by Nagato. Aside from destroying Kakuzu's hearth, the later was still alive and only finished by Kakashi.


irrelevant 
2 hearts got killed, and Pain's body was erased... 
I.E it did what it was supposed to do... 



redboy776 said:


> Kirin was used against War arc Naruto. So it was two Time, not only one.


anime filler. 
the only time it was used is Vs itachi's Susanoo. 



redboy776 said:


> I can also Say that Amaterasu Killed Danzo one time


technically it did not. It was just a genjutsu/illusion thanks to Izanagi... 



redboy776 said:


> some Zetsus and a snake that would have able Orochimaru to survive the fight against Itachi.


Oro did survive. He is still around... 

Zetsus are only walking trees, and even then the ones Sasuke's "killed" were clones by applying Amaterasu into Magatamas...
and the Original one was also stabbed with a sword (that Amaterasu/Enton) was applied to... 

he would have been killed by the sword anyway... 


if Amaterasu's best feat is a fucking crow and a little snake, that's telling... 


Not to mention, you are deluding yourself into believing that Jiraiya won't use what he have just to make yourself feel better. 
(Kawarimi, removing close, his hair, making distance, Rasengan, clones, sealing Amaterasu...etc)

Reactions: Like 1


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## Troyse22 (May 15, 2020)

Sufex said:


> This is inspired by a post my good friend made
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Jiraiya gets one shot by Amaterasu, SM or not.

You need Nagato+ sensory ability to set up countermeasures, or speed so great you can point blank dodge it, which is what Ay did, or a cloak which comes from your body and you can push off you.

Idk why @Azula stupidly noted this when its a feat only a perfect Jinchuuriki can accomplish Kind of like saying Itachi uses Mangekyo so why can't Kisame, just nonsense.


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## Trojan (May 15, 2020)

Troyse22 said:


> Jiraiya gets one shot by Amaterasu, SM or not.
> 
> You need Nagato+ sensory ability to set up countermeasures, or speed so great you can point blank dodge it, which is what Ay did, or a cloak which comes from your body and you can push off you.
> 
> Idk why @Azula stupidly noted this when its a feat only a perfect Jinchuuriki can accomplish Kind of like saying Itachi uses Mangekyo so why can't Kisame, just nonsense.


there is no need to be upset, Troy. 

Kisame can absorb that garbage as well...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Yumi Zoro (May 15, 2020)

Hussain said:


> irrelevant
> 2 hearts got killed, and Pain's body was erased...
> I.E it did what it was supposed to do...
> 
> ...



Nice headcanon there. 
Pain was erased but what about the Original nagato? yes, he was still alive.
Orochimaru was actualy killed and needed Anko's Curse mark to Come back. 
Zetsu IS not just a tree but a person before loosing his humanity.


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## Trojan (May 15, 2020)

redboy776 said:


> Pain was erased but what about the Original nagato? yes, he was still alive.


Well, no shit captain obvious. 
if you haven't been paying attention, Nagato was not the target of FRS.

That's as dumb as saying "Bombs are not lethal, because yeah, the target got killed, but guess what? The other guy on a different nation did not get killed" 



redboy776 said:


> Orochimaru was actualy killed and needed Anko's Curse mark to Come back.


if he died, then that's the end. 

that's like saying "Naruto actually got killed because his clone was destroyed"

the length you are willing to go to wank itachi tho... 





redboy776 said:


> Zetsu IS not just a tree but a person before loosing his humanity.


those people are trees now. The original ones are dead... 
hence how they turn into trees when Naruto hits them...


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## Yumi Zoro (May 15, 2020)

Hussain said:


> Well, no shit captain obvious.
> if you haven't been paying attention, Nagato was not the target of FRS.
> 
> That's as dumb as saying "Bombs are not lethal, because yeah, the target got killed, but guess what? The other guy on a different nation did not get killed"
> ...


The 6 pains are all deseased people from the past controled by Nagato. So yes, Naruto killed shit with his FRS because Nagato was not among them.



> the length you are willing to go to wank itachi tho...


A miscalculation from you, I am not a Ushiwa wanker, maybe Hinata's but not the Ushiwa.
It just happen I cant buy the fake assumption that Base Jiraya could survive Amaterasu.



> those people are trees now. The original ones are dead...
> hence how they turn into trees when Naruto hits them...


Yes they are tree now, but they are still Human in origin.


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## Trojan (May 15, 2020)

redboy776 said:


> The 6 pains are all deseased people from the past controled by Nagato. So yes, Naruto killed shit with his FRS because Nagato was not among them.


you just sound desperate. But anyway, Kakuzu's heart still there... 



redboy776 said:


> It just happen I cant buy the lie that Base Jiraya could survive Amaterasu.


Everyone survives fucking Trash-terasu... 

I repeat my question:

Have you EVER read the manga? Or are you debating when you have no clue about the source material? 




redboy776 said:


> Yes they are tree now, but they are still Human in origin.


and Pain's Paths weren't human in origin?


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## Yumi Zoro (May 15, 2020)

Hussain said:


> you just sound desperate. But anyway, Kakuzu's heart still there...
> 
> 
> Everyone survives fucking Trash-terasu...
> ...



this IS not even a debate trashterasu or what you call it, will eat base Jiraya alive.


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## Trojan (May 15, 2020)

redboy776 said:


> this IS not even a debate trashterasu or what you call it, will eat base Jiraya alive.


Cool, can you give us a human character that Trashterasu ate alive? 

Hint: there is none...


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## Trojan (May 15, 2020)

anyway, thanks for the debate @redboy776 

here is your gift

*Spoiler*: _1_ 



*Link Removed* 


*Spoiler*: _2_ 












hope you have a good day/night of delusion


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## Yumi Zoro (May 15, 2020)

Hussain said:


> anyway, thanks for the debate @redboy776
> 
> here is your gift
> 
> ...



Na, you are the one who need that for thinking Base Jiraya could survive Amaterasu or even seal it without prep.


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## Prince Idonojie (May 15, 2020)

Kawarimi doesn't really have defined limits and based on what we've seen this jutsu do, the flames doesn't really stand a chance against it mechanically... so it was kinda scrapped-out somewhat from being utilised to much so that if the flames were utilised against Jiraiya, Kawarimi wouldn't be the answer because that would devalue absolutely everything about the jutsu and for real make it one of the biggest joke of the series considering that it's a MS technique and it's extremely taxing to chakra and, especially, health. Kawarimi in fact devalues a lot of jutsus now that I think about it... Isn't Sasuke Rinnegan special tech that he awakened against Madara, that has a massive cooldown, just a glorified Kawarimi?

With all that being said, Ama is still obviously over-hyped by some in OBD. In the end Madara completely mocked the jutsu as worthless while championing Kamui; and its showings leave a lot to be desired. So while Jiraiya won't probably Kawarimi Ama, he could probably Toad Flatness his way out instantly or any S/T displacement jutsu he can activate on a fly since he specialises in such, even Reverse Summon is a simple option to get the job down and disengage from Ama.


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## jesusus (May 15, 2020)

The Base Jiraiya? Why of course.


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## Mad Scientist (May 15, 2020)

jesusus said:


> The Base Jiraiya? Why of course.


*The lord and saviour has returned...!*
**
*JESUSUS!!!*


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