# Itachi vs. Sannin



## trance (Jan 21, 2015)

Location: Sannin Battleground

Intel: Full for Itachi, manga for Sannin

Mindset: Bloodlusted

Distance: 30m

Rules: Itachi has Hashirama level chakra. Itachi's eyes won't fade.


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## Sword of the Morning (Jan 21, 2015)

Tsuande alone solos Itachi. No need for the other Sannin.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## ARGUS (Jan 21, 2015)

With these conditions, Itachi wins this mid diff at most 

 - first of all tsunade gets immediately one shotted by either totsuka or Amaterasu, the Latters continous burning affect counters byakugou hard, and the flames completely consume the oxygen around tsunade leaving her unable to fight 

 - orochimaru is not doing shit either. He still has nothing on tsukuyomi at all, nor would his durability help him against attacks of this nature, so he gets totsukad with ease 

 - if Jiriaya starts in base then he also gets GGd by Amaterasu or totsuka 

 - Jiriaya still gets cleaved by susanoo. He is not fast enough to evade it's attacks, nor could he compete with it's firepower, and engaging itachi in CQC is still bound to get him caught under genjutsu when itachis superior speed and reflexes ensure that he gets caught, 

 - summons are obviously non factor in front of Amaterasu so they are not doing shit 

 - none of their attacks are breaching susnaoo either. So any following attack from yomi numa is not leading anywhere, and Jiriaya coming close is just making him a bigger target for Amaterasu


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## Icegaze (Jan 21, 2015)

omg 
tsunade can solo itachi..hhahahahahahahah
how on earth does she get round amaterasu or tskuyomi. even funnier totsuka sword. 
a troll is a troll 


Itachi with hashirama chakra level violates haaaard


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## Ghost (Jan 21, 2015)

Itachi steamrolls. He can just camp in Susano'o and shoot Amaterasu left and right. The Sannin can't touch or out run him.


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## Platypus (Jan 21, 2015)

Poor  gets paralysed by Sharingan Genjutsu, which leaves him right open to be stabbed by Totsuka.
Jiraiya's weakness is Genjutsu, as stated by himself, so he won't do well against Sharingan Genjutsu either.
Considering that Tsunade is a top tier medical-nin, she should have plenty of chakra control to disable regular genjutsu, but Tsukuyomi would be the end for her.

The toads' sound genjutsu might trap Itachi, but the time needed to first summon Fugasaku and Shima and then prepare the genjustu is so long...

TL;DR Genjutsu is OP.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Mercurial (Jan 21, 2015)

Itachi solos, Susanoo, Totsuka and Amaterasu are too much for the Sannin. They are too slow to keep up with his speed and have giant trouble with his genjutsu too.


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## Nikushimi (Jan 21, 2015)

Even without the chakra bonus, Itachi solos. The Sannin have nothing on his Susano'o and its Totsuka Blade. Amaterasu can dispatch Tsunade and Jiraiya equally; Orochimaru has a reactive counter (skin shedding) and Jiraiya has a retroactive counter (flame sealing) that might be impossible to use while he's on fire. Tsukuyomi can take down all three; only Tsunade has a retroactive counter (medical Ninjutsu), but it's useless if she's the one who takes the hit. Itachi has full knowledge here, so he's gonna know all these counters and who can use them. Based on that, he'll know who to attack with what, and the most effective way to go about it--this is where his superhuman intuition really bears its fruit.

Itachi fought KCM Naruto and Killer B in close combat...separately and simultaneously...and got away unharmed. He went at it with Kabuto's Sage Mode, too--the same guy who casually dodged one of Sasuke's chakra arrows, which Kakashi needed to warp with Kamui instead of dodging. These three are a joke; they won't touch him.

With Hashirama's chakra, Itachi makes a Perfect Susano'o and erases the Sannin from the face of the Earth.


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## LostSelf (Jan 21, 2015)

If SM Jiraiya manages to go base, then the Sannin stomps. Base Jiraiya alone was able to take on Itachi and Kisame, Pain, Hidan, Kakuzu, Deidara, Konan, Sasori and Zetsu.

Now if we add that Tsunade can take out up to three Akatsuki members, Katsuyu can take out Hidan and Kakuzu because they cannot harm her and her acid is too fast and Tsunade herself can take out Konan. The same Tsunade that Jiraiya said had no equal. 

So It's safe to assume that Tsunade is above Jiraiya, who is equal to Itachi + Kisame + Backup, and Katsuyu, who cannot be harmed by Chibaku Tensei and Kyuubi's corrosive chakra cloack and Orochimaru the honest said her acid could've killed him. Let's take in mind that Orochimaru is harder to kill by conventional means than all of those guys.

But that's not all, Tsunade's Shunshin was fast enough to force Madara to use Susano'o, Madara, who could react to V2 Ei's speed from a surprise attack, and also could react to Lightspeed movement (That Tsunade could react as well). 

Itachi's skillset won't do much damage to her aside from Amaterasu. Because Tsunade tanked YM from Madara Uchiha with no damage, the same YM that got through Gaara's sand, the same sand that blocked C3.

And even then, if Itachi lands Amaterasu, Tsunade can just rip said part of her body ala Piccolo with her monstruous strenght, hit the floor and disrupt Itachi/Susano'o's footing and follow up with another blow.

Itachi gets stomped. Oro is not needed. Jiraya and Tsunade are too strong for him. And they have Kage Level summons. Gamabunta is strong enough to beat Gaara in the desert, or to beat Deidara throwing blasts to the air. And i talked already about Katsuyu. Itachi has no real way of winning.

.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Complete_Ownage (Jan 21, 2015)

This match interely depends on two things:
1) If Ma/Pa can get off frog song
2) How many or who orochimaru can revive via Edo Tensei

However Itachi has full knowledge in this fight so I highly doubt the sannin will win


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## Ghost (Jan 21, 2015)

Complete_Ownage said:


> This match interely depends on two things:
> 1) If Ma/Pa can get off frog song


Location is the Sannin battlefield and Itachi has full knowledge. Jiraiya won't live long enough to summon Ma and Pa.


> 2) How many or who orochimaru can revive via Edo Tensei


Orochimaru has no prep here.


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## Platypus (Jan 21, 2015)

Without prep: Itachi wins.
With prep (ET, Sage mode, sound genjutsu): Sannin win.



LostSelf said:


> Base Jiraiya alone was able to take on Itachi and Kisame, Pain, Hidan, Kakuzu, Deidara, Konan, Sasori and Zetsu.
> 
> Tsunade can take out up to three Akatsuki members.
> 
> ...





Pretty sure SM Jiraiya lost against Pain, might be mistaken though...



> And even then, if Itachi lands Amaterasu, Tsunade can just rip said part of her body ala Piccolo with her monstruous strenght



Wouldn't she dodge with her lightspeed movement? What if he hits her head?


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## DaVizWiz (Jan 21, 2015)

Itachi takes this with extreme difficulty. Regardless of his chakra pool, he's still mortally ill with his best feats, and he will be extremely physically exhausted once he defeats the three of them, on the brink of death. 

With full knowledge he'll avoid Yomi Numa, which is really the worst threat to Itachi and his Susano. He'll go after Jiraiya first, after that, the rest are generally easy kills for him. Tsunade won't bring out 5% Katsuya as she's never fought Itachi regardless of what she knows about him, and she didn't do that against Edo Madara of all opponents. 

In my mind, their only chance is Yomi Numa sinking him, or 5% Katsuya outlasting him, the problem is Itachi won't let either of those techniques develop before he kills them. 

Amaterasu hits any of them with ease at start battle (30m), he can keep it going to hit two if not all three of them by spraying it as he did against Hebi Sasuke if he chooses (Hashirama's Chakra Pool will clearly aid in that regard). Once Jiraiya is down, he can go right into ground and pound with Susano, which utterly dominates Orochimaru and Tsunade without challenge. Neither of them are remotely capable of combating that technique anywhere near the level that Jiraiya would be (Dust Cloud, Yomi Numa, Leaping Summons, Frog Call, Gamabunta's Oil are all sufficient counters to Susano).


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## Arles Celes (Jan 21, 2015)

What is Hashirama's level chakra?

If it means he can do his own Uchiha version of Shinsenju then he stomps.

If he just won't run out of chakra like his edo version and can't pump more chakra into his jutsus than normally then he loses.


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## Bonly (Jan 21, 2015)

Itachi uses his new found chakra to use a massive Shunshin to get the fuck out of there before he gets raped.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Jan 21, 2015)

What Bonly said.

Or, if wanted to stay, he might kill one of the Sannin, but the others will punish him for that.


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## Zef (Jan 21, 2015)

Itachi is still sick, no?


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## UchihaX28 (Jan 21, 2015)

I'm going to assume Itachi's eyes not fading means he's immune to the effects of the MS w/ god-like chakra and is Healthy? Even then, Itachi simply bushin feints and genjutsu's all of them. None of them have been shown to withstand Tsukyomi. The only one who can is SM Jiraiya arguably with Ma and Pa, but even then, Jiraiya has no prep here, so I'm afraid to say Itachi solos esp. if Healthy.


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## SSMG (Jan 21, 2015)

I honestly see itachi getting screwed here even with top notch chakra levels and full Intel. If he takes out oro first jiraiya will have summoned ma and pa and use a frog song. If he takes out jiraiya first oro summons the Edo kages and proceeds to lay the smack down on itachi.


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## Legendary Itachi (Jan 21, 2015)

Itachi sits in his new Susanoo and slices mountains to half, then watching how the Sannin are running for their lives. 

The shockwaves tear the toads and the Edo coffins apart before they can give any minor nuisance.


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## IchLiebe (Jan 21, 2015)

Sannin win


Jiraiya has Sage Mode, Yomi Numa(GG), Toad oil Katon, Gamabunta, and other jutsu. He also didn't say his weakness was genjutsu but rather didn't care for genjutsu. That however doesn't mean that he is weak in that category as he taught Naruto a method that Naruto used against Itachi's genjutsu of whom than praised of far Naruto has come up to that point.  Also if you take that statement the way that you already are than wouldn't that mean that Jiraiya is really good at genjutsu defense since he has Frog Song.


Orochimaru has the Sword of Kusanagi(legendary), snake summons, Edo Kages, a good Fuuton that would collaborate well with Jiraiya's toad Oil Katon. Also shown knowledge on how to break genjutsu. He was really really weak when he faced Itachi as said the DB, take it for what its worth but you can't discredit the DB then use it in reference to Yata Mirror.


Tsunade, Katsuyu solos. She can work really well as support by pumping chakra into one of the other two. She can heal them if need be, and can be rather tiresome.


The Sannins have to many ways to deal with Itachi while Itachi only has Amaterasu, and Totsuka to deal with the Sannin(and Amaterasu won't put down 2 of them so that means that Totsuka is the only option against them) which once they see they wont' fall for.


Manga knowledge- Jiraiya has knowledge of Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu(even sealed that slow burning candle flame). Tsunade was hokage and had specific knowledge on certain people, she would atleast know the basics of Itachi(what elements he uses, and his style of fighting, regular bingo book shit really) and Orochimaru has intimate knowledge of Itachi. He was his partner for a time, he studied the Uchihas for a duration of time, and seen the entire fight Sasuke had against Itachi and was even sealed by Totsuka and faced the Yata Mirror.


Bloodlusted- Holy fuck I would hate to see Orochimaru and Jiraiya bloodlusted against one enemy.



Sannin 9/10 high diff.

Reactions: Like 1


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## IchLiebe (Jan 21, 2015)

Legendary Itachi said:


> Itachi sits in his new Susanoo and slices mountains to half, then watching how the Sannin are running for their lives.
> 
> The shockwaves tear the toads and the Edo coffins apart before they can give any minor nuisance.



First of all Itachi has never manifest all of Susanoo that quickly without forming it prior to such an event. 

New Susanoo? Where the fuck did he get a new one? Clearly your imagination has went a little to far. I hope you aren't suggesting that he has a new/different Susanoo based on his chakra pool. Susanoo isn't based on ones chakra pool


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## UchihaX28 (Jan 21, 2015)

SSMG said:


> I honestly see itachi getting screwed here even with top notch chakra levels and full Intel. If he takes out oro first jiraiya will have summoned ma and pa and use a frog song. If he takes out jiraiya first oro summons the Edo kages and proceeds to lay the smack down on itachi.



 How will JIraiya and Orochimaru survive Tsukyomi and finger genjutsu doe? Even Bee was fodderized by basic sharingan genjutsu from Itachi for a few seconds.


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## IchLiebe (Jan 21, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> How will JIraiya and Orochimaru survive Tsukyomi and finger genjutsu doe?


Tsukuyomi will never land due to knowledge and finger genjutsu is weak. Naruto was able to fight against it using Jiraiya's teaching. Jiraiya is tons better in terms of chakra control than that Naruto. Orochimaru was about to break the genjutsu but Itachi chopped his hands off, note how that was in really close quarters.





> Even Bee was fodderized by basic sharingan genjutsu from Itachi for a few seconds.



Fodderized?

Bee broke it as soon as possible. Itachi did tell him but it makes no difference as he could clearly tell it was genjutsu and the 8tails can break him out outside the realm of time, of which he did and then Bee proceeded to pull out his swords and block the shurikens that Itachi launched.

Link removed
Link removed


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## Legendary Itachi (Jan 21, 2015)

IchLiebe said:


> First of all Itachi has never manifest all of Susanoo that quickly without forming it prior to such an event.
> 
> New Susanoo? Where the fuck did he get a new one? Clearly your imagination has went a little to far. I hope you aren't suggesting that he has a new/different Susanoo based on his chakra pool. Susanoo isn't based on ones chakra pool



Susanoo is chakra, Onoki even comments on how Madara is able to stabilize such large chakra construct. 

Kakashi having a tiny amount of Rikudo chakra from Obito can activate PS shortly, Hashi's chakra is shown to be able to amplify the power of Sharingan many times - how Koto's cooldown is shortened from 10 years once to few hours, how Obito can spam Kamui as nothing without any eyesight issues.

Itachi has much more experience in manifesting Susanoo than Kakashi or Obito who never did it once.  If Kakashi can use a freaking PS after seconds, Itachi will have no issue to form a bigger Susanoo even it's not as large as PS.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Jan 21, 2015)

Imagine Byako super charging sage arts.

Non-poisoned Jiraiya Senpo, Byako Yomi Numa.

Now imagine he also has a kyuubi cloak.


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## Sadgoob (Jan 21, 2015)

Itachi with Hashi's cells (i.e. Obito's hax of unlimited MS usage.) 

Me gusta.


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## IchLiebe (Jan 21, 2015)

Legendary Itachi said:


> Susanoo is chakra, Onoki even comments on how Madara is able to stabilize such large chakra construct.


Yes but its shape and size isn't relevant to chakra pool but rather how far one has mastered the sharingan. Madaras was never significantly bigger than anyone elses until it became legged and perfect which he had EMS+ at that point. Madara's Susanoo was purely destructive, thats why it had the shockwaves. Itachi's however is more or less defensive and doesn't have such destructive capacity. I see no reason to suggest that his Susanoo was based on his chakra pool.

Yes, he had to stabilize that chakra construct, something Sasuke nor Kakashi showed at any point. Madara is the only listed user of Perfect Susanoo.


> Kakashi having a tiny amount of Rikudo chakra from Obito can activate PS shortly, Hashi's chakra is shown to be able to amplify the power of Sharingan many times - how Koto's cooldown is shortened from 10 years once to few hours, how Obito can spam Kamui as nothing without any eyesight issues.


He has Hashirama level chakra, not Hashirama chakra. It was never not one time shown that having Hashi chakra amplified nor changed ones' Susanoo by the slightest bit. 

Kakashi also just gained double Kamui and shown rather great proficiency in wielding 2 MS sharingan at the same time. That was Kakashi's Susanoo, although it was amplified by Obito, but still not reliant on Kakashi's chakra pool in the slightest bit.





> Itachi has much more experience in manifesting Susanoo than Kakashi or Obito who never did it once.  If Kakashi can use a freaking PS after seconds, Itachi will have no issue to form a bigger Susanoo even it's not as large as PS.


Yet he was never shown to have PS nor even be any where near it. He couldn't even manifest legged version. Not even as an ET did he show a superior form of his Susanoo.

Kakashi is the Copy Ninja, he copied that shit with 1 sharingan then was able to use it with 2. Also notice how Kakashi was able to implement Kamui onto his weapons, something that Itachi was never shown to do or be able to do(using 2 MS jutsu at once and manifesting 1 MS technique onto your Susanoo's weapon).

I would say outside of Genjutsu(which is generic for Uchihas) Itachi never shown anything that sets his mastery apart from others. Especially when you compare how well certain ones use their sharingan. 



Also it was stated that one unlocks the sharingan's true potential when one has the original pair. That is why Madara couldn't be allowed to get double rinnegan and why Kakashi was able to manifest such a good Susanoo.


Continue to spout this fanfic though.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## IchLiebe (Jan 21, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> Itachi with Hashi's cells (i.e. Obito's hax of unlimited MS usage.)
> 
> Me gusta.



He has Hashirama level chakra and his eyes don't degrade...that doesn't mean that he has Hashirama's chakra, nor cells.


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## SSMG (Jan 21, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> How will JIraiya and Orochimaru survive Tsukyomi and finger genjutsu doe? Even Bee was fodderized by basic sharingan genjutsu from Itachi for a few seconds.



The same way kakashi sakura and chiyo survived the finger genjutsu. For tsuki itachi has to get them one at a time and so the scenario I said would still play out.


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## UchihaX28 (Jan 21, 2015)

SSMG said:


> The same way kakashi sakura and chiyo survived the finger genjutsu. For tsuki itachi has to get them one at a time and so the scenario I said would still play out.



 No he doesn't. It was implied in Part 1 that Itachi could genjutsu multiple people at the same time as shown with Itachi and Kisame vs. Kakashi, Asuma, and Kurenai when Kakashi told Asuma and Kurenai to close their eyes.

 Admittedly, finger genjutsu could probably land on only one person at a time as evidence is shown, but other sharingan genjutsu, esp. Tsukyomi should land on multiple people at the same time. 


 @IchLiebe

 No, Naruto was completely defenseless against finger genjutsu without the help of Sakura and Chiyo, but still, I concede, finger genjutsu is useless.


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## SSMG (Jan 22, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> No he doesn't. It was implied in Part 1 that Itachi could genjutsu multiple people at the same time as shown with Itachi and Kisame vs. Kakashi, Asuma, and Kurenai when Kakashi told Asuma and Kurenai to close their eyes.
> 
> Admittedly, finger genjutsu could probably land on only one person at a time as evidence is shown, but other sharingan genjutsu, esp. Tsukyomi should land on multiple people at the same time.
> 
> ...



Closing their eyes just ensures they don't get caught by his jutsu. Which is what happened. You can assume that it can hit them both at once but I can also assume itachi would have to take em out one at a time. Neither of us are for sure right but he's only ever hit one person at a time with tsuki so I got less assumptions towards my stance. 

Given the knowledge of this topic hell have to force eye contact on whoever for tsuki since they all know about it.


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## trance (Jan 22, 2015)

Arles Celes said:


> What is Hashirama's level chakra?



It means he has a reservoir of chakra equal to Hashirama.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Jan 22, 2015)

I guess Itachi could tajuu Kagebunshin exploding clones and suicide rush them for 40 minutes then.


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## Icegaze (Jan 22, 2015)

So i read something from a troll saying itachi cannot use amaterasu to kill 2 sanin 
last i checked both really had no defense for it

tsunade our dearest victim laughably dies off the bat.

I would also like to point out 3 against 1 nothing stops itachi from starting with tskuyomi 


But yes i am sure someone will come on her and say they start the fight with their eyes closed. because that makes sense. or even better tsunade acquires sensing skills and super speed,she uses both to kill itachi 



odd how everyone itachi has fought pretty much had knowledge bar deidara. he somehow always caught them in genjutsu without forcing them. kakashi used a bunshin otherwise he would have been caught as well 

but yes we will ignore that and make it sound like making eye contact is very hard. odd how sasuke could pull it off against C. I saw no forcing there did you?


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## sabre320 (Jan 22, 2015)

Yomi numa trolls itachi if he kills jirayia first he wins otherwise jirayia makes shadow clones tsunade amps him up and he uses a giant yominuma sussano is helpless against it


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## Icegaze (Jan 22, 2015)

if yomi numa can troll itachi i guess gaara can as well. remember what he did to kimimaro???

i dont see why yomi numa will kill itachi at all. he uses it. itachi is sunk in. itachi uses susanoo and breaks out. i seriously dont get why yomi numa is hyped to infinity and beyond. Please show feats of it killing anyone at all. 

the jutsu doesnt even have manga hype. All it has is NF jiraiya fan hype

let me get this straight people: please read this 



this jutsu actually restricts movement and is said to crush the person. None of that is said about yomi numa. 

So we have kimimaro escape a technique superior to yomi numa yet somehow itachi using a better jutsu cannot escape yomi numa for real people???

before arguing please read what both techniques do. They are entirely the same except gaara jutsu is said to crush the person. making it stronger. 

Yomi numa wastes itachi time for a few seconds. Its a stalling jutsu thats it


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## sabre320 (Jan 22, 2015)

UM yomi numa managed to sink a giant summon while the guy was drugged sussano cant gain leverage and would in a giant yomi numa...

its an a high rank technique one of jirayias best amongst his arsenal....amaterasu never killed anyone what kind of argument is that...

 The adhesive, chakra-infused mud ensnares the enemy's body, making it almost impossible to recover one's strength and escape from the swamp. The size and depth of the created swamp depends on the user's skill and the amount of chakra used, but if the user is an expert in this technique, it will always be possible to make a fair-sized swamp which is extremely effective against a great number of enemies or when having to face gigantic creatures.

A swamp amped by tsunade will be huge..


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## LostSelf (Jan 22, 2015)

Itachi uses Yata mirror as a surfboard to Negate Yomi Nuna. Or uses Raiton. He should've copied somewhere in his life.

Anybody old enough in the forum will be familiar with that up .


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## Empathy (Jan 22, 2015)

It's a shame that even with all that extra chakra, Itachi still can't beat _Yomi Numa_.


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## Icegaze (Jan 22, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> UM yomi numa managed to sink a giant summon while the guy was drugged sussano cant gain leverage and would in a giant yomi numa...
> 
> its an a high rank technique one of jirayias best amongst his arsenal....amaterasu never killed anyone what kind of argument is that...
> 
> ...



Read gaara quick sand technique 
So I take it genin gaara can beat itachi now 
How deep is jurists going to Bury itachi ??? Jiraiya jutsu never sunk a summon it also failed to sink animal path 

Itachi at best goes under and comes out with susanoo . Stuck in the jutsu Yata beats it and he simply punches out of there with susanoo 


Yomi numa is incapable of even beating the likes of mei it's not itachi it's going to beat 

Yomi has ZERO feats of takinf anyone out or being anytbinf more than a stall tactic 
It doesn't even have the hype to go with it 
Bar jiraiya fan hype from you lot 

Rank means difficulty at learning not power 
Take Nikute and FRS
The B rank is more powerful than the S rank


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## UchihaX28 (Jan 22, 2015)

Jiraiya has nothing to counter Amaterasu either.


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## IchLiebe (Jan 22, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> if yomi numa can troll itachi i guess gaara can as well. remember what he did to kimimaro???


There would be nothing Itachi could do if caught in that scenario.



> i dont see why yomi numa will kill itachi at all. he uses it. itachi is sunk in. itachi uses susanoo and breaks out. i seriously dont get why yomi numa is hyped to infinity and beyond. Please show feats of it killing anyone at all.
> 
> the jutsu doesnt even have manga hype. All it has is NF jiraiya fan hype


 Doesn't have hype. He was able to make a good sized one when he was drugged and couldn't even summon Gamabunta as a result.

Susanoo gets dragged under as well. Its a swamp, not rock slicing at it or trying to tear you way through it will just displace the swamp, not get rid of it. Not to mention Susanoo isn't a shroud, it wouldn't help Itachi in the least bit.





> let me get this straight people: please read this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They are two different techniques with different mechanics. Yomi Numa continuously pulls the opponent under, while Gaara is the one pulling someone under. He though he killed Kimi thus stopped restricting him, Yomi Numa doesn't stop it continues unless dispelled.

Yomi Numa just drowns/suffocates an opponent, and I would say that Kimi wouldn't be able to drag himself out of Yomi Numa.



> Yomi numa is incapable of even beating the likes of mei it's not itachi it's going to beat


Nice naming one of the few counters to Yomi Numa. Mei has lava to create a foothold...Itachi doesn't. A>B>C logic is flawed quite basing your argument on it.





> Yomi has ZERO feats of takinf anyone out or being anytbinf more than a stall tactic
> It doesn't even have the hype to go with it
> Bar jiraiya fan hype from you lot


Lol it only was due to him being drugged in the manga and based on what is shown in the manga we can make a logical conclusion on how strong it will be.

Amaterasu has never taken anyone out, not even Karin or the Samurai. If it is useless against the Samurai then its useless against the Great Sannin.





> Rank means difficulty at learning not power
> Take Nikute and FRS
> The B rank is more powerful than the S rank


Bullshit.

The rank of a jutsu is based on a lot of thing and difficulty to learn isn't one of them. Edo Tensei is easy to learn...so I guess its a d/c rank jutsu?


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## IchLiebe (Jan 22, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> Jiraiya has nothing to counter Amaterasu either.



He has dealt with it canonically and knows about it. 

Hebi Sasuke was able to dodge. Amaterasu is rather slow and burns slowly. As long as he isn't within 5 meters it won't be a problem.


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## Icegaze (Jan 23, 2015)

IchLiebe said:


> There would be nothing Itachi could do if caught in that scenario.
> 
> Doesn't have hype. He was able to make a good sized one when he was drugged and couldn't even summon Gamabunta as a result.
> 
> ...



 gaara never stopped restricting kimi. he sunk him 200m deep and he got out. 200m far exceeds anything hypeless and featless yomi numa has done 
they techniques with the same mechanics read them before arguing. gaara tech is even more advanced as the sand prevents all movement. yomi numa doesnt do that. certainly isnt described to 

 . jiraiya uses it. itachi sinks . uses susanoo and gets out. not rocket science . yata trolls it. both jutsu have no feats however one at least has hype. 

with sage chakra and using YM he couldnt even sink animal path in. 

yomi numa doesnt suffocate anyone. was never described to do so. Kimi trolls YM with negative difficulty 

jiriaya not drugged failed to sink animal path. Itachi has yata. 

please say its featless....then remember YM is as well 

amaterasu burnt a person in half. And took hachibi out. nice try though this is fun 

ET is s rank because its forbidden dont be dumber than you already are. if it wasnt a forbidden then yes it could be a C rank. forbidden techs are automatically put in S . till they are no longer forbidden


----------



## StarWanderer (Jan 23, 2015)

IchLiebe said:


> He has dealt with it canonically and knows about it.
> 
> Hebi Sasuke was able to dodge. Amaterasu is rather slow and burns slowly. As long as he isn't within 5 meters it won't be a problem.



When Itachi wasnt all out on Sasuke and didnt want to kill him. 

And its very debatable if Jiraya will be able to sense Amaterasu like Juubito did.


----------



## Dominus (Jan 23, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> ET is s rank because its forbidden dont be dumber than you already are. if it wasnt a forbidden then yes it could be a C rank. forbidden techs are automatically put in S . till they are no longer forbidden



Tajū Kage Bunshin is A-rank, Front Lotus is B-rank, etc.


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## Ghost (Jan 23, 2015)

Good ol' Yomi Numa with its Magnetic Pull making enemies unable to jump.


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## IchLiebe (Jan 23, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> gaara never stopped restricting kimi. he sunk him 200m deep and he got out. 200m far exceeds anything hypeless and featless yomi numa has done


Yes he did. Yes once Gaara had though he won and stopped restricting Kimi's movements.





> they techniques with the same mechanics read them before arguing. gaara tech is even more advanced as the sand prevents all movement. yomi numa doesnt do that. certainly isnt described to


No, Gaara controls his sand accordingly Yomi Numa sinks anything into an abyss like swamp.





> . jiraiya uses it. itachi sinks . uses susanoo and gets out. not rocket science . yata trolls it. both jutsu have no feats however one at least has hype.


How do Itachi get his own body out? Susanoo isn't a cloak or shroud its a structure and it even anchors Itachi to the ground beneath his feet as a drawback. Susanoo would only displace the part of the swamp that it actually touches, Itachi won't be able to move so Susanoo can't move and thus will eventually sink as well. YM has never shown to repel or negate such a technique, but even so its AOE makes YM null.

One thing you are right about its not rocket science...Its Physics.


> with sage chakra and using YM he couldnt even sink animal path in.


He was trying to full submerge Animal path and we don't know how deep that swamp actually was or could have been, it was manifested onto a roof. And another path was pulling it down at one point and the weight of animal path wasn't enough to pull Animal out. 



> yomi numa doesnt suffocate anyone. was never described to do so. Kimi trolls YM with negative difficulty


If they are submersed in it. And I said suffocate/drown(/ = or). I don't see how he does. Known of his techniques allow for it. Unless you think Kimi is that strong. But a Healthy Kimi probably would be able to get out of Yomi Numa.





> jiriaya not drugged failed to sink animal path. Itachi has yata.
> please say its featless....then remember YM is as well


Yet was able to restrict a summon when he couldn't even control his chakra well enough to summon Gama. YM is more or less featless. We have had one showing(Yomi Numa has 2) and showed nothing that a complete Susanoo shouldn't be able to tank(besides Kirin)...But not like that matters we have already seen the mechanics of both and if both were to collide the entirety of Susanoo would eventually be submersed but not before Itachi himself is submersed...ESPECIALLY given that using that stage of Susanoo anchors the user to the ground, which benefits Yomi Numa.





> amaterasu burnt a person in half. And took hachibi out. nice try though this is fun


Hebi Sasuke...fucking plz. Yet Bee was able to escape and Sasuke had only used it out of sheer desperation. It also barely burnt Kirin...who has no defensive capabilities whatsoever.





> ET is s rank because its forbidden dont be dumber than you already are. if it wasnt a forbidden then yes it could be a C rank. forbidden techs are automatically put in S . till they are no longer forbidden



You are so fucking ignorant.

It is based on variables that go into the ranking system. Being forbidden isn't a variable that has much standing, they are regarded as techniques that have substantial requirements and drawbacks.


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## StarWanderer (Jan 23, 2015)

IchLiebe said:


> Yes he did. Yes once Gaara had though he won and stopped restricting Kimi's movements.No, Gaara controls his sand accordingly Yomi Numa sinks anything into an abyss like swamp.How do Itachi get his own body out? Susanoo isn't a cloak or shroud its a structure and it even anchors Itachi to the ground beneath his feet as a drawback. Susanoo would only displace the part of the swamp that it actually touches, Itachi won't be able to move so Susanoo can't move and thus will eventually sink as well. YM has never shown to repel or negate such a technique, but even so its AOE makes YM null.
> 
> One thing you are right about its not rocket science...Its Physics.
> He was trying to full submerge Animal path and we don't know how deep that swamp actually was or could have been, it was manifested onto a roof. And another path was pulling it down at one point and the weight of animal path wasn't enough to pull Animal out.
> ...



I hope you'll reply to me. Jiraya has nothing to counter Amaterasu.


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## ShadowReaper (Jan 23, 2015)

Itachi stomps really badly.

Like on the level of 5 kages and Madara.


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## IchLiebe (Jan 23, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> When Itachi wasnt all out on Sasuke and didnt want to kill him.


Yet was pushed and surprised by Sasuke and went all out. He destroyed over 70% of Sasuke body when Sasuke was finally caught by Amaterasu. A Hebi Sasuke that had no knowledge of Amaterasu whatsoever.





> And its very debatable if Jiraya will be able to sense Amaterasu like Juubito did.


Amaterasu releases a pressure wave when used.
Link removed

Jiraiya has also seen it before and sealed it. He knows about it first hand. He has sufficient reaction feats to suggest there is no reason why he couldn't dodge it outside of 5 meters(if that).



Sometimes I have more pressing matters to attend to sometimes and can't reply to every post made.



OT


Katsuyu? Orochimaru? Edo Kages?


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## SSMG (Jan 23, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> I hope you'll reply to me. Jiraya has nothing to counter Amaterasu.



Hair, summons and shunshins can do it.


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## UchihaX28 (Jan 23, 2015)

SSMG said:


> Hair, summons and shunshins can do it.



 His shunshin can't avoid it at close range which is where he has to be. Itachi can counter Jiraiya's long range jutsus considering toad oil Katon won't do shit to an Itachi who's Suiton surpasses even SM Kabuto's with Suigestu's cells as well as the fact that his hair is implied to be his best wide-range jutsu which can't do shit to Pain's summons which means Ribcage Susanoo can just tank it. There's also the fact that Itachi is just plain faster and better and has his own shunshin, so he can just shunshin and burn him at close range or just Tsukyomi as Jiraiya can't counter that without looking down at Itachi's feet which isn't happening if Jiraiya can't prep Sage Mode. Even then, the only thing he can do is get in close which will mean Amaterasu phucks him up.

 Summons get hard countered by Susanoo or Amaterasu. Even Pain could dodge the summons effortlessly and he's slower than SM Naruto from the Pain Arc which means Itachi has not real reason to be threatened by it. There's also the fact that his eyes won't fade which means he'll spam Amaterasu for just this one fight as well as the fact that Sasuke who was not even accustomed the strain could spam Amaterasu and Susanoo which means Itachi will have no trouble doing that at a perfectly healthy state that is able to even use V4 Susanoo while nearly blind w/o MS while Sasuke couldn't maintain it for even a second which means Amaterasu spam followed by Tsukyomi to take out Tsunade and Orochimaru which leaves Jiraiya helpless.


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## Icegaze (Jan 24, 2015)

IchLiebe said:


> Yes he did. Yes once Gaara had though he won and stopped restricting Kimi's movements.No, Gaara controls his sand accordingly Yomi Numa sinks anything into an abyss like swamp.How do Itachi get his own body out? Susanoo isn't a cloak or shroud its a structure and it even anchors Itachi to the ground beneath his feet as a drawback. Susanoo would only displace the part of the swamp that it actually touches, Itachi won't be able to move so Susanoo can't move and thus will eventually sink as well. YM has never shown to repel or negate such a technique, but even so its AOE makes YM null.
> 
> One thing you are right about its not rocket science...Its Physics.
> He was trying to full submerge Animal path and we don't know how deep that swamp actually was or could have been, it was manifested onto a roof. And another path was pulling it down at one point and the weight of animal path wasn't enough to pull Animal out.
> ...



basless claim. Provide scan of gaara saying yes i let kimimaro loose. There is none of that. 
But do try 

YM sinks people into the abyss. Mind showing me a scan  once again ill wait. Cuz so far no abyss holds any ninja prisoner but nice one though 

Why cant chakra under feet stop you from being pulled under? Or amaterasu heat reverting it back. If chakra on feet can be a counter to ST a much more superior technique why cant it be to yomi numa?? 

this entire statement is pullshit and ficitional :





> One thing you are right about its not rocket science...Its Physics.
> He was trying to full submerge Animal path and we don't know how deep that swamp actually was or could have been, it was manifested onto a roof. And another path was pulling it down at one point and the weight of animal path wasn't enough to pull Animal out



no path ever tried to get human path out. Animal path used human path as a stepping stone to not get caught. 

Nice and all but please show panel of this YM which has been used twice pulling anyone into any abyss. I will wait 

It doesnt even have the DB hype of pulling anyone into any abyss. 

i am ignorant but you are just flat out an idiot. trust me. 

you are the same fool who would say yata cant nullify this attack it has no feats. yet you have the audacity to say YM can pull anyone into any abyss. *SHOW ME SCANS!!!* who was pulled under go on.


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## IchLiebe (Jan 24, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> His shunshin can't avoid it at close range which is where he has to be.
> Itachi can counter Jiraiya's long range jutsus considering toad oil Katon won't do shit to an Itachi who's Suiton surpasses even SM Kabuto's with Suigestu's cells as well as the fact that his hair is implied to be his best wide-range jutsu which can't do shit to Pain's summons which means Ribcage Susanoo can just tank it. There's also the fact that Itachi is just plain faster and better and has his own shunshin, so he can just shunshin and burn him at close range or just Tsukyomi as Jiraiya can't counter that without looking down at Itachi's feet which isn't happening if Jiraiya can't prep Sage Mode. Even then, the only thing he can do is get in close which will mean Amaterasu phucks him up.


Absolute horseshit except the first sentence, and Jiraiya has ways to defend. All one has to do is block LOS such as what about more or less did with the projectile. There is no reason to suggest his hair can't defend against it within time. 

Pain summoned a defensive summon to block against it. If Itachi tries to run instead of defending he would get caught. Its a technique you have to defend against because its so quick and has a wide range. Ribcage could but then wouldn't survive against SM Jiraiya's follow up attack. 

Jiriaya is more durable and stronger than Itachi and as bad in speed as you suggest. There is no fucking way Itachi stops toad oil Katon with a suiton. Even though Kabuto had Suigetsu's cells and SM he showed nothing to say that his suitons were anything to be held in high regard, especially given that anyone could do it if capable(Itachi didn't have Suigetsu cells, nor Sage power). Toad Oil Katon goes straight through it.

Tsukuyomi is a close range as well and Jiraiya has knowledge of it from seeing used against Sasuke and Kakashi when he woke up. 

You suggest that ITachi get in close against Jiraiya when Jiraiya will no doubt try to keep his distance and let Tsunade, Orochimaru, and Summons handle CQC.

Tsunade heals faster than Amaterasu burns doesn't get caught by eye genjutsu(she was fighting against 5 Madaras and didn't get caught MS genjutsu was used on Raikage in a similar situation), Orochimaru is near immortal won't get caught with eye genjutsu has the sword of Kusanagi that can cut through anything as per legend.





> Summons get hard countered by Susanoo or Amaterasu. Even Pain could dodge the summons effortlessly and he's slower than SM Naruto from the Pain Arc which means Itachi has not real reason to be threatened by it.


Yes but a surprising food cart destroyer. Manda can shed its skin to get away from Amaterasu and can come up from below Susanoo if need be. Katusuyu's acid would destroy Susanoo, splits when hit by Amaterasu(excommunicates those pieces of itself much like the jyuubi, Gama can leap into the air and was able to fight bijuus(crushed the nine tails, fought the one tails) he has katons and suitons(huge water bullets that can block Amaterasu). Then you have Orochimaru lesser summons who can still cause a disturbance and distraction for Itachi and the lesser toads who seem to be able to handle their own quite well.


> There's also the fact that his eyes won't fade which means he'll spam Amaterasu for just this one fight as well as the fact that Sasuke who was not even accustomed the strain could spam Amaterasu and Susanoo which means Itachi will have no trouble doing that at a perfectly healthy state that is able to even use V4 Susanoo while nearly blind w/o MS while Sasuke couldn't maintain it for even a second which means Amaterasu spam followed by Tsukyomi to take out Tsunade and Orochimaru which leaves Jiraiya helpless.


Madara used Susanoo while he WAS blind.

Sasuke had a much better mastery of Susanoo and Amaterasu shown throughout. He manipulated Amaterasu to the point of creating Enton. He was able to use Enton and Amaterasu alongside Susanoo, which shows Sasuke mastery in chakra manipulation as well.

Sure he can spam Amaterasu, but not all day and not more than 10 times, especially if he has to use Susanoo.


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## IchLiebe (Jan 24, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> basless claim. Provide scan of gaara saying yes i let kimimaro loose. There is none of that.
> But do try


Its fucking shown, after he crushes he stops doing anything, doesn't have sensing sand and was surprised that he was alive...thus Gaara thought the fight was over.





> YM sinks people into the abyss. Mind showing me a scan  once again ill wait. Cuz so far no abyss holds any ninja prisoner but nice one though


 I said "Abyss *like*". It is as deep as the user wants it. Do you know what the definition of abyss is? 





> Why cant chakra under feet stop you from being pulled under? Or amaterasu heat reverting it back. If chakra on feet can be a counter to ST a much more superior technique why cant it be to yomi numa??


Well the path was able to manipulate chakra and they showed to be very adept at it, I see no reason why a ninja such of that caliber would be caught by something a genin can defend against. And I see no reason to suggest that Jiraiya would use such a technique against Orochimaru and the Rinnegan if it could be so easily circumvented.



> no path ever tried to get human path out. Animal path used human path as a stepping stone to not get caught.


But if they were walking on the ceiling that would mean chakra going through his feet thus couldn't be dragged under by Yomi Numa.

Page before he puts his hand on the paths back.
Here in the top left you can still see him hanging on to the path.
Link removed

How is it in the air after so long?
Link removed


> Nice and all but please show panel of this YM which has been used twice pulling anyone into any abyss. I will wait
> 
> It doesnt even have the DB hype of pulling anyone into any abyss.
> 
> ...


Lol calling me an idiot when you are so full of shit. You even say it doesn't have DB hype of pulling anyone into any abyss.



			
				DB2 said:
			
		

> Earth Release: Underworld* Swamp (土遁・黄泉沼, Doton: Yomi Numa)
> Ninjutsu, A-rank, Offensive, All ranges
> User: Jiraiya
> 
> ...



Jiraiya couldn't manifest a sufficient one against the snake due to being drugged, and against the path he didn't need to since Frog Song was about to be cast. He doesn't do unnecessary things.

Show you scans, why you can't fucking comprehend them.


Do you care to talk about Tsunade and Orochimaru or is that to much for you and/or Itachi?



OH And Orochimaru's snake did become submersed in the swamp.
Link removed


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## SSMG (Jan 24, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> His shunshin can't avoid it at close range which is where he has to be. Itachi can counter Jiraiya's long range jutsus considering toad oil Katon won't do shit to an Itachi who's Suiton surpasses even SM Kabuto's with Suigestu's cells as well as the fact that his hair is implied to be his best wide-range jutsu which can't do shit to Pain's summons which means Ribcage Susanoo can just tank it. There's also the fact that Itachi is just plain faster and better and has his own shunshin, so he can just shunshin and burn him at close range or just Tsukyomi as Jiraiya can't counter that without looking down at Itachi's feet which isn't happening if Jiraiya can't prep Sage Mode. Even then, the only thing he can do is get in close which will mean Amaterasu phucks him up.
> 
> Summons get hard countered by Susanoo or Amaterasu. Even Pain could dodge the summons effortlessly and he's slower than SM Naruto from the Pain Arc which means Itachi has not real reason to be threatened by it. There's also the fact that his eyes won't fade which means he'll spam Amaterasu for just this one fight as well as the fact that Sasuke who was not even accustomed the strain could spam Amaterasu and Susanoo which means Itachi will have no trouble doing that at a perfectly healthy state that is able to even use V4 Susanoo while nearly blind w/o MS while Sasuke couldn't maintain it for even a second which means Amaterasu spam followed by Tsukyomi to take out Tsunade and Orochimaru which leaves Jiraiya helpless.



I don't think you understood what I'm replying to. I'm not saying jiraiyas hair summons and shunshin will beat itachi. Those are just ways he can avoid amaterasu. Jman can beat itachi though with frog song and swamp of the underworld. If itachi focuses on jiraiya to stop him from doing these jutsus oro summons the Edo kages and proceeds to stomp. If itachi goes after oro first to stop the zombies from being summoned jiraiya hits him with a frog song.


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## Punished Pathos (Jan 24, 2015)

Itachi takes with high difficulty if he is prepared


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## UchihaX28 (Jan 24, 2015)

IchLiebe said:


> Absolute horseshit except the first sentence, and Jiraiya has ways to defend. All one has to do is block LOS such as what about more or less did with the projectile. There is no reason to suggest his hair can't defend against it within time.



 Except what happened to Jiraiya when he attacked Pain? That's right, he had to get in close.



> Pain summoned a defensive summon to block against it. If Itachi tries to run instead of defending he would get caught. Its a technique you have to defend against because its so quick and has a wide range. Ribcage could but then wouldn't survive against SM Jiraiya's follow up attack.



 Edo Itachi is faster than any of the Paths, so he easily dodges it anyways. Itachi is also mobile with Partial Ribcage shown when EMS Sasuke tried to use it on Edo Itachi.



> Jiriaya is more durable and stronger than Itachi and as bad in speed as you suggest. There is no fucking way Itachi stops toad oil Katon with a suiton. Even though Kabuto had Suigetsu's cells and SM he showed nothing to say that his suitons were anything to be held in high regard, especially given that anyone could do it if capable(Itachi didn't have Suigetsu cells, nor Sage power). Toad Oil Katon goes straight through it.



 So you're making a baseless claim and assuming Senjutsu enhanced Suiton with Suigetsu cells is weak because you said so when it's implied he's superior to Orochimaru as well as superior to a Perfect Sage in almost every single way.



> Tsukuyomi is a close range as well and Jiraiya has knowledge of it from seeing used against Sasuke and Kakashi when he woke up.



 Base Jiraiya can't fend himself just by looking at his feet. Gai was the only one who's shown skill in that regard. Even with knowledge, Naruto was still caught in genjutsu.



> You suggest that ITachi get in close against Jiraiya when Jiraiya will no doubt try to keep his distance and let Tsunade, Orochimaru, and Summons handle CQC.



 The won't considering Tsukyomi both of them.



> Tsunade heals faster than Amaterasu burns doesn't get caught by eye genjutsu(she was fighting against 5 Madaras and didn't get caught MS genjutsu was used on Raikage in a similar situation), Orochimaru is near immortal won't get caught with eye genjutsu has the sword of Kusanagi that can cut through anything as per legend.



 Because he was toying with the 5 Kages and the fact that V2 Ei was stated to be faster than Tsunade to begin with topped off with the fact that Madara was landing more blows on Tsunade than Ei was and the fact that her fighting style was getting very sloppy as the fight continued.

 Orochimaru won't get caught in genjutsu? U wot m8? What happened against Sasuke after seeing Itachi's fodder genjutsu? That's right, he still lost.



> Yes but a surprising food cart destroyer. Manda can shed its skin to get away from Amaterasu and can come up from below Susanoo if need be. Katusuyu's acid would destroy Susanoo, splits when hit by Amaterasu(excommunicates those pieces of itself much like the jyuubi, Gama can leap into the air and was able to fight bijuus(crushed the nine tails, fought the one tails) he has katons and suitons(huge water bullets that can block Amaterasu). Then you have Orochimaru lesser summons who can still cause a disturbance and distraction for Itachi and the lesser toads who seem to be able to handle their own quite well.



 Considering a very weakened Sasuke could genjutsu Manda with inferior genjutsu, there's no reason Itachi can't genjutsu the most dangerous summons with stronger genjutsu.



> Madara used Susanoo while he WAS blind.



 I was just saying his body won't get as phucked up as Sasuke's. 



> Sasuke had a much better mastery of Susanoo and Amaterasu shown throughout. He manipulated Amaterasu to the point of creating Enton. He was able to use Enton and Amaterasu alongside Susanoo, which shows Sasuke mastery in chakra manipulation as well.



 Never said he didn't. I said he can handle the strain of MS a lot better than Sasuke could at the time and Sasuke was spamming techniques like crazy.



> Sure he can spam Amaterasu, but not all day and not more than 10 times, especially if he has to use Susanoo.



 But Sasuke during the Kage Summit could and Itachi was proven to be able to handle the strain better than Sasuke could during the Kage Summit and you bet he spammed techniques like crazy.


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## RedChidori (Jan 24, 2015)

ARGUS said:


> With these conditions, Itachi wins this mid diff at most
> 
> - first of all tsunade gets immediately one shotted by either totsuka or Amaterasu, the Latters continous burning affect counters byakugou hard, and the flames completely consume the oxygen around tsunade leaving her unable to fight
> 
> ...



This. Itachi soloes .


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## IchLiebe (Jan 25, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> Except what happened to Jiraiya when he attacked Pain? That's right, he had to get in close.


 Yes because of Preta path, and he was still using ninjutsu most the time..





> Edo Itachi is faster than any of the Paths, so he easily dodges it anyways. Itachi is also mobile with Partial Ribcage shown when EMS Sasuke tried to use it on Edo Itachi.


Faster but its a negligible notice and even more so when the Sannin can handle speedsters through their versatility. Itachi's beat taijutsu feats are whooping up on Sasuke...not impressive in the slightest. Why would he do both defend and run? Also he would have to activate MS first. And do you mean this form which Kabuto went straight through with ease?*heck he wasnt  even panting, and was even in his gated state after kisame got put down*


> So you're making a baseless claim and assuming Senjutsu enhanced Suiton with Suigetsu cells is weak because you said so when it's implied he's superior to Orochimaru as well as superior to a Perfect Sage in almost every single way.


No what I am claiming is that the suiton used by Kabuto wasn't one of spectacle and admiration. It did beat Sasuke's katon(which isn't nothing to brag about in comparison to Toad oil Katon) and knock Sasuke back
*heck he wasnt  even panting, and was even in his gated state after kisame got put down*

Itachi doesn't have senjutsu nor Suigetsu's cells implanted.





> Base Jiraiya can't fend himself just by looking at his feet. Gai was the only one who's shown skill in that regard. Even with knowledge, Naruto was still caught in genjutsu.


And funny how Itachi ran away when Gai told them to look at his feet instead of closing their eyes. If he keeps his distance he doesn't have to fight blind as both Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu are short distance techniques.

And did Itachi not compliment Naruto's growth when Naruto was attempting to break out of finger genjutsu, using the method JIRAIYA taught him, and said he hadn't grown enough.  Orochimaru was also going to break out of the genjutsu but his hands were cut off and he had to retreat due to his body deteriorating(as per DB said). 



> The won't considering Tsukyomi both of them.


Yes and Ill get to the issue of spamming MS here in a second.  Tsunade heals from the damage with her regen, Orochimaru may not be able to take it but he is to quick to be caught with Tsukuyomi. I would even say that Tsukuyomi can't hit targets that are moving quickly. We've always seen MS genjutsu(bar Shishui's hax) have to have their target really close and not moving or right up in their face. If Itachi focus' on Orochimaru to get a tsukuyomi, then Tsunade obliterates him Katusuyu melt him or Jiraiya yomi numas him. Oh and then you got the edo Kages.



> Because he was toying with the 5 Kages and the fact that V2 Ei was stated to be faster than Tsunade to begin with topped off with the fact that Madara was landing more blows on Tsunade than Ei was and the fact that her fighting style was getting very sloppy as the fight continued.


Yet she had regen and could tank attacks. If there was one to use genjutsu on it would be her as well but he never even attempted it on her...ever and she was the one he outright stated he was going to kill.





> Orochimaru won't get caught in genjutsu? U wot m8? What happened against Sasuke after seeing Itachi's fodder genjutsu? That's right, he still lost.


You mean when Sasuke was clashing genjutsu with Itachi toe to toe, or when he broke Tsukuyomi and caught Itachi. Or are you talking about 5 year old Sasuke? No Orochimaru won't be caught. He has exclusive indepth knowledge of Uchihas given Manga knowledge. He can fight without looking in someone's eyes and with a healthy body he ain't getting put down by finger genjutsu.

Tell you wot im not, dumb.


> Considering a very weakened Sasuke could genjutsu Manda with inferior genjutsu, there's no reason Itachi can't genjutsu the most dangerous summons with stronger genjutsu.


And we have no idea how long he controlled manda or was allowed to. Yes Itachi can genjutsu them, but to suggest he has seemingless total control over them is another. If worse comes to worse they they de-summon it. And they have multiple summons. I don't think Genjutsu would be effective on Katsuyu if she has a link with the other three shinobi nor on the shinobi she is attached too.


> I was just saying his body won't get as phucked up as Sasuke's.


Irrelevant





> Never said he didn't. I said he can handle the strain of MS a lot better than Sasuke could at the time and Sasuke was spamming techniques like crazy.
> 
> 
> But Sasuke during the Kage Summit could and Itachi was proven to be able to handle the strain better than Sasuke could during the Kage Summit and you bet he spammed techniques like crazy.


Not necessarily true. The strongest form we seen Itachi(when he fought Hebi Sasuke) he was having drastic effects from MS. After a Tsukuyomi he was caught by a rigged shuriken that Zetsu commented he should've dodged(then people put it off as the illness effecting for some shit reason). After using Amaterasu he collapsed on the ground and was coughing up blood.

*heck he wasnt  even panting, and was even in his gated state after kisame got put down*


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## UchihaX28 (Jan 25, 2015)

IchLiebe said:


> Yes because of Preta path, and he was still using ninjutsu most the time..Faster but its a negligible notice and even more so when the Sannin can handle speedsters through their versatility. Itachi's beat taijutsu feats are whooping up on Sasuke...not impressive in the slightest. Why would he do both defend and run? Also he would have to activate MS first. And do you mean this form which Kabuto went straight through with ease?Link removed



 Itachi's best taijutsu feats are being a step above Base Bee who can handle opponents KCM Naruto struggle with as well. 

 And dude, Itachi bushin feinted there. Almost every single time Itachi wasn't trying to protect Sasuke, he either dodged, clashed with Kabuto, or bushin feinted him.



> No what I am claiming is that the suiton used by Kabuto wasn't one of spectacle and admiration. It did beat Sasuke's katon(which isn't nothing to brag about in comparison to Toad oil Katon) and knock Sasuke back
> Link removed



 Mmmkay, still Senjutsu enhanced w/ Suigetsu's Cells. He's far above any Perfect Sage in this regard and that includes an imperfect sage like Jiraiya. You really think if Itachi can overcome a stronger Senjutsu enhanced Suiton that he can't overcome a weaker Katon (though amplified by the toad oil) which also is inferior to Suiton? C'mon now. 



> Itachi doesn't have senjutsu nor Suigetsu's cells implanted.And funny how Itachi ran away when Gai told them to look at his feet instead of closing their eyes. If he keeps his distance he doesn't have to fight blind as both Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu are short distance techniques.



 He also suggested to run away from Jiraiya even when he had Kisame on his side and current feats suggest they'd both be able to take out Jiraiya. 



> And did Itachi not compliment Naruto's growth when Naruto was attempting to break out of finger genjutsu, using the method JIRAIYA taught him, and said he hadn't grown enough.  Orochimaru was also going to break out of the genjutsu but his hands were cut off and he had to retreat due to his body deteriorating(as per DB said).



 Any scans to prove this? 



> Yes and Ill get to the issue of spamming MS here in a second.  Tsunade heals from the damage with her regen, Orochimaru may not be able to take it but he is to quick to be caught with Tsukuyomi. I would even say that Tsukuyomi can't hit targets that are moving quickly. We've always seen MS genjutsu(bar Shishui's hax) have to have their target really close and not moving or right up in their face. If Itachi focus' on Orochimaru to get a tsukuyomi, then Tsunade obliterates him Katusuyu melt him or Jiraiya yomi numas him. Oh and then you got the edo Kages.



 How is Oro too quick to be caught by genjutsu when a paralyzed Sasuke managed to do it?

 His targets aren't moving too quickly, not even. 

 Too bad Itachi can use Tsukyomi on multiple people at once or you may have a point there. 

 No, he genjutsu's Katsuyu and can easily avoid Yomi Numa.

 Too bad Oro is fodderized by Itachi's genjutsu or you may have a point there.



> Yet she had regen and could tank attacks. If there was one to use genjutsu on it would be her as well but he never even attempted it on her...ever and she was the one he outright stated he was going to kill.You mean when Sasuke was clashing genjutsu with Itachi toe to toe, or when he broke Tsukuyomi and caught Itachi. Or are you talking about 5 year old Sasuke? No Orochimaru won't be caught. He has exclusive indepth knowledge of Uchihas given Manga knowledge. He can fight without looking in someone's eyes and with a healthy body he ain't getting put down by finger genjutsu.



 Definitely not because she was related to Hishirama?

 Orochimaru was fodderized by basic Sharingan genjutsu twice, same as Deidara who's seen it before. Even Bee was fodderized by genjutsu and it took a few seconds for Hachibi to wake him up. 

 Okay, and that extensive knowledge didn't help him against basic genjutsu.



> Tell you wot im not, dumb.
> And we have no idea how long he controlled manda or was allowed to. Yes Itachi can genjutsu them, but to suggest he has seemingless total control over them is another. If worse comes to worse they they de-summon it. And they have multiple summons. I don't think Genjutsu would be effective on Katsuyu if she has a link with the other three shinobi nor on the shinobi she is attached too.



 Doesn't matter since the three shinobi can't take on Tsukyomi.



> Irrelevant



 That was to indicate he can spam for a while.



> Not necessarily true. The strongest form we seen Itachi(when he fought Hebi Sasuke) he was having drastic effects from MS. After a Tsukuyomi he was caught by a rigged shuriken that Zetsu commented he should've dodged(then people put it off as the illness effecting for some shit reason). After using Amaterasu he collapsed on the ground and was coughing up blood.



 Because Sasuke overcame his Tsukyomi which will obviously put stress on Itachi as well as the fact that he had an illness. He wasn't that phucked up when using Amaterasu once after using Tsukyomi twice.



> Link removed


 [/quote]

 Irrelevant. He was severely ill and almost going blind from the start of the battle. He still reformed V4 Susanoo and managed to seal Oro and keep it active for a few minutes.


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## Icegaze (Jan 25, 2015)

IchLiebe said:


> Its fucking shown, after he crushes he stops doing anything, doesn't have sensing sand and was surprised that he was alive...thus Gaara thought the fight was over. I said "Abyss *like*". It is as deep as the user wants it. Do you know what the definition of abyss is? Well the path was able to manipulate chakra and they showed to be very adept at it, I see no reason why a ninja such of that caliber would be caught by something a genin can defend against. And I see no reason to suggest that Jiraiya would use such a technique against Orochimaru and the Rinnegan if it could be so easily circumvented.
> 
> But if they were walking on the ceiling that would mean chakra going through his feet thus couldn't be dragged under by Yomi Numa.
> 
> ...



in reply to your DB copy paste of YM would you like me to reply with yata mirror?


cuz your scans dont go along with the points you are trying to make. 

you have yet to show a panel of gaara saying i let him go cuz i thought he was dead. he sunk kimi. said the sand will crush you so you can no longer move. no part mentioned anythign about letting kimimaro go


*But if they were walking on the ceiling that would mean chakra going through his feet thus couldn't be dragged under by Yomi Numa.*

you just said that. therefore chakra under feet is an easy way to defeat YM. so why is itachi somehow unable to do this? considering he can see hand seals and know its doton coming? lol arguing while coming to the same conclusion i would. ah your cute!! 

you fully just said it so dont go flip flopping on me. YM therfore is a technique anyone can counter. chakra under his feet= no dragging under

As for tsunade and orochimaru. they arent even worth talkign about. orochimaru eats tskuyomi and tsunade amaterasu neither can do anything against it. or even have techniques that can threaten itachi. I speak of jiraiya because only he has techniques worth itachi time 

try argue that please. lol


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## IchLiebe (Jan 25, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> Itachi's best taijutsu feats are being a step above Base Bee who can handle opponents KCM Naruto struggle with as well.


Above? Bee was handling everything Itachi had yet when Bee clashed with itachi for about 2 seconds with the seven swords dance he retreated and attacked Naruto. Naruto wasn't even serious and neither was Bee.





> And dude, Itachi bushin feinted there. Almost every single time Itachi wasn't trying to protect Sasuke, he either dodged, clashed with Kabuto, or bushin feinted him.


What about the times when Kabuto was pressuring Itachi and Sasuke had to help out or Itachi would've be overwritten. Itachi didn't have a single advantage until Izanami triggered.





> Mmmkay, still Senjutsu enhanced w/ Suigetsu's Cells. He's far above any Perfect Sage in this regard and that includes an imperfect sage like Jiraiya. You really think if Itachi can overcome a stronger Senjutsu enhanced Suiton that he can't overcome a weaker Katon (though amplified by the toad oil) which also is inferior to Suiton? C'mon now.



See you have no clue of what you are even talking about. His suiton never overpowered Kabuto's, his handseals allowed him to get it of faster...and also this was in genjutsu so it can't be credited as a user creates the genjutsu and alters the world.
Link removed

So what you are even suggesting is irrelevant especially given it wasn't a powerful Suiton that would be able to even out with Toad Oil Katon much less over power it.





> He also suggested to run away from Jiraiya even when he had Kisame on his side and current feats suggest they'd both be able to take out Jiraiya.


Yet they both admitted inferiority to Jiraiya. Even though people want to debate that its clear. They were laughing at Naruto and Sasuke. Jiraiya shows up, the Great Jiraiya(according to Kisame) and they run away not soon after and do not attempt to even skirmish with Jiraiya.





> Any scans to prove this?


Yep 

Link removed

Jiraiya even explaining why Naruto 'must' learn this method
Link removed

Link removed





> How is Oro too quick to be caught by genjutsu when a paralyzed Sasuke managed to do it?


I don't have any idea of what you are talking about. Sasuke uses subtle genjutsu unlike Itachi who make it well known that you are in a genjutsu from the get go most the time.





> His targets aren't moving too quickly, not even.
> 
> Too bad Itachi can use Tsukyomi on multiple people at once or you may have a point there.


Itachi can't Tsukyomi multiple people at once. Shishui is the only known person to be able to catch anyone in the area with MS genjutsu. 

And they aren't slow. Orochimaru is quick not fast(but is somewhat, and hard to kill), Tsunade could go down to a Tsukuyomi but Madara was having trouble putting her down with Susanoo and his other techniques yet never opted to use genjutsu, either he couldn't hit her with it or he didn't(which doesn't make any sense after exclaiming he would kill the ugly senju first). He did against A which showed that he was willing to use it.


> No, he genjutsu's Katsuyu and can easily avoid Yomi Numa.


You know how large Katsuyu's chakra pool is? Fucking large, Katsuyu herself should be able to break out of genjutsu but any of the sannin can break her out. Also she would be in communication with them at all times. And she spits acid while he tries genjutsu(which doesn't stop the acid). 

How does he avoid Yomi Numa? He's never shown to jump an incredible distance and if he does that opens him up for an attack of sorts.





> Too bad Oro is fodderized by Itachi's genjutsu or you may have a point there.


Orochimaru has knowledge of Sharingan genjutsu. He could just sit at a distance and let the 2 kages wreck him.


> Definitely not because she was related to Hishirama?


Not because she was related to Hashirama but because she was a "weak ugly Senju".





> Orochimaru was fodderized by basic Sharingan genjutsu twice, same as Deidara who's seen it before. Even Bee was fodderized by genjutsu and it took a few seconds for Hachibi to wake him up.


The first time he pushed it needing a body immediately and thought Itachi was easy food.

Deidara was in a subtle genjutsu and the second time he did that to lure Sasuke in, he was able to see right through it. 

God damn HORSESHIT. Bee was in the genjutsu when the shuriken were being thrown, Hachibi broke him out, Bee then pulls out Samehada and pulls the swords from it and blocks the shuriken. Hachibi breaks him out immediately once notice, they communicate outside the realm of time even if genjutsu alters the perception of time.


> Okay, and that extensive knowledge didn't help him against basic genjutsu.


Yea he waited until his final form and didn't think that genjutsu would be effective once they was inside the transferal world of Orochimaru's. His calculations were wrong, he know has that knowledge as well knowledge of what Kabuto seen.





> Doesn't matter since the three shinobi can't take on Tsukyomi.


But once Itachi uses Tsukuyomi one time his reactions deteriorate by a good bit and he gets caught by the other sannin or summons. He can't fight all of them at once when they are bloodlusted with the set stipulations.





> That was to indicate he can spam for a while.


But MS still has its drawbacks even if the eyes don't deteriorate. It was clearly shown.





> Because Sasuke overcame his Tsukyomi which will obviously put stress on Itachi as well as the fact that he had an illness. He wasn't that phucked up when using Amaterasu once after using Tsukyomi twice.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## IchLiebe (Jan 25, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> in reply to your DB copy paste of YM would you like me to reply with yata mirror?


I know what Yata Mirrors' says. It in no way suggest that it would block YM since it isn't omnidirectional and only repel attacks it touches. Sure it could repel part of the swamp, but wouldn't where Itachi is standing and thus be circumvented. 





> cuz your scans dont go along with the points you are trying to make.


Well then you can't comprehend or your blind.





> you have yet to show a panel of gaara saying i let him go cuz i thought he was dead. he sunk kimi. said the sand will crush you so you can no longer move. no part mentioned anythign about letting kimimaro go


Well first of all it irrelevant as Kimi used his boneforest under the sand to begin with and moved through the bones. Which there is no reason to suggest he can't do to yomi numa, but he would be submerged and unable to break through like he did to gaara's coffin.





> *But if they were walking on the ceiling that would mean chakra going through his feet thus couldn't be dragged under by Yomi Numa.*
> 
> you just said that. therefore chakra under feet is an easy way to defeat YM. so why is itachi somehow unable to do this? considering he can see hand seals and know its doton coming? lol arguing while coming to the same conclusion i would. ah your cute!!


Jiraiya wasn't trying to sink it, he was just stopping its movements of which it did. And no because he was still trapped in the swamp and couldn't move and then was caught in Frog song.

YOu are so fucking delusional.





> you fully just said it so dont go flip flopping on me. YM therfore is a technique anyone can counter. chakra under his feet= no dragging under


It doesn't as that scan showed. 

WTF, are you skimming my post?





> As for tsunade and orochimaru. they arent even worth talkign about. orochimaru eats tskuyomi and tsunade amaterasu neither can do anything against it. or even have techniques that can threaten itachi. I speak of jiraiya because only he has techniques worth itachi time
> 
> try argue that please. lol



Tsunade heals faster than Amaterasu burns, can get through ribcage, has Katusuyu who has powerful Acid and good support. Manda who can attack from underground, multiple snake summons, and 2 Edo Kages 


And for some reason Orochimaru goes in fist first against a person he has admitted inferiority to prior? Unreasonable at best.


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## UchihaX28 (Jan 25, 2015)

IchLiebe said:


> Above? Bee was handling everything Itachi had yet when Bee clashed with itachi for about 2 seconds with the seven swords dance he retreated and attacked Naruto. Naruto wasn't even serious and neither was Bee.What about the times when Kabuto was pressuring Itachi and Sasuke had to help out or Itachi would've be overwritten. Itachi didn't have a single advantage until Izanami triggered.



 Yet Itachi outplayed him with simple sharingan genjutsu and Base Bee was unable to dodge Itachi's Katon and had to resort to blocking it with his partial transformation. I wouldn't be surprised if Edo Itachi had to back away from a guy who can handle KCM Naruto tier opponent if he was using a very unorthodix fighting style to begin with.

 There were no moments where Itachi was pressured considering he could bushin feint at every moment where he wasn't focused on protecting Sasuke as well as the fact that Itachi wasn't trying to kill him.



> See you have no clue of what you are even talking about. His suiton never overpowered Kabuto's, his handseals allowed him to get it of faster...and also this was in genjutsu so it can't be credited as a user creates the genjutsu and alters the world.
> *"using the juubi's power to try and get close to me and my mother's power".*



 So Itachi's Katon can overpower Kabuto's Suiton because his genjutsu allows it?



> So what you are even suggesting is irrelevant especially given it wasn't a powerful Suiton that would be able to even out with Toad Oil Katon much less over power it.Yet they both admitted inferiority to Jiraiya. Even though people want to debate that its clear. They were laughing at Naruto and Sasuke. Jiraiya shows up, the Great Jiraiya(according to Kisame) and they run away not soon after and do not attempt to even skirmish with Jiraiya.Yep



 Except feats contradict it bro. Kisame's scared of a Base Jiraiya yet was confident in taking on a tailed beast? It was hype. Itachi can fodderize Orochimaru who was hyped up to be the strongest Sannin out of the 3 who was strong enough to toy with the 3rd Hokage and you're telling me he's scared of Jiraiya who doesn't have feats that compare to Orochimaru? 

 Based on what? SM Kabuto who's a perfect sage while Jiraiya isn't has Suigetsu's cells which gives him an advantage in Suiton doesn't allow him to overpower a Toad Oil Katon based on what? SM Kabuto's a far superior sage who's actually mastered it along with Suigetsu's cells. What does Jiraiya have that's so special?



> *"using the juubi's power to try and get close to me and my mother's power".*
> 
> Jiraiya even explaining why Naruto 'must' learn this method
> *"using the juubi's power to try and get close to me and my mother's power".*



 Sorry, but I'm not getting your point. Itachi still effortlessly fodderized Naruto with basic genjutsu either way.



> *"using the juubi's power to try and get close to me and my mother's power".*I don't have any idea of what you are talking about. Sasuke uses subtle genjutsu unlike Itachi who make it well known that you are in a genjutsu from the get go most the time.Itachi can't Tsukyomi multiple people at once. Shishui is the only known person to be able to catch anyone in the area with MS genjutsu.



 Itachi uses subtle genjutsu as well.

 He tested it out against Sasuke.
 Used it against Deidara.
 Used it against Kurenai.
 Used it against Bee.

 Sasuke has also outright used genjutsu.

 Against C (is dis even his name?)
 Against Bee
 Against Sai
 Against Manda

 C'mon now.

 Yet Kakashi still urged Asuma and Kurenai to close his eyes against Itachi's Tsukyomi? It's pretty clear it could've targeted multiple people.





> And they aren't slow. Orochimaru is quick not fast(but is somewhat, and hard to kill), Tsunade could go down to a Tsukuyomi but Madara was having trouble putting her down with Susanoo and his other techniques yet never opted to use genjutsu, either he couldn't hit her with it or he didn't(which doesn't make any sense after exclaiming he would kill the ugly senju first). He did against A which showed that he was willing to use it.
> You know how large Katsuyu's chakra pool is? Fucking large, Katsuyu herself should be able to break out of genjutsu but any of the sannin can break her out. Also she would be in communication with them at all times. And she spits acid while he tries genjutsu(which doesn't stop the acid).



 Orochimaru is quick, but compared to Edo Itachi who can clash and dodge a far superior being such as SM Kabuto? He even managed to bushin feint against SM Kabuto's surprise attack on Itachi. 

 A was clearly distracted, Tsunade wasn't and he was definitely toying with all of them. He even considered Onoki the greatest threat yet didn't kill him right away. He clearly could genjutsu Tsunade, esp. at the moment when he literally bushin feinted her yet he chose not to. He wanted to see them all suffer as Kages. The fact that he didn't even kill all of them after his assault with Perfect Susanoo suggests it. 



> How does he avoid Yomi Numa? He's never shown to jump an incredible distance and if he does that opens him up for an attack of sorts.Orochimaru has knowledge of Sharingan genjutsu. He could just sit at a distance and let the 2 kages wreck him.




 He jumped up on Nagato's summon did he not? That's a pretty far distance mane.

 Orochimaru has knowledge, but he can also use "subtle" genjutsu to counter Orochimaru.




> Not because she was related to Hashirama but because she was a "weak ugly Senju".



 And not because she was strong? So basically, she weak as phuck.



> The first time he pushed it needing a body immediately and thought Itachi was easy food.



 Even though he knew about some of the Sharingan's capabilities and the fact that he annihilated his whole clan and defeated the Konoha Police which was seemingly on his own? He also saw Sasuke as easy food, but that didn't stop him from getting phucked up by basic Sharingan genjutsu.




> Deidara was in a subtle genjutsu and the second time he did that to lure Sasuke in, he was able to see right through it.



 Sasuke could see right through it not b/c of Sharingan? 



> God damn HORSESHIT. Bee was in the genjutsu when the shuriken were being thrown, Hachibi broke him out, Bee then pulls out Samehada and pulls the swords from it and blocks the shuriken. Hachibi breaks him out immediately once notice, they communicate outside the realm of time even if genjutsu alters the perception of time.



 That was with his most basic genjutsu. Even if it was just half a second, it just goes to show how someone with knowledge of Sharingan genjutsu who has a bijuu can be left vulnerable, so taking that in consideration, that kind of genjutsu or at least a slightly stronger genjutsu can certainly catch either of them if they're not careful.

 Also, I love that word HORSESHIT.




> Yea he waited until his final form and didn't think that genjutsu would be effective once they was inside the transferal world of Orochimaru's. His calculations were wrong, he know has that knowledge as well knowledge of what Kabuto seen.But once Itachi uses Tsukuyomi one time his reactions deteriorate by a good bit and he gets caught by the other sannin or summons. He can't fight all of them at once when they are bloodlusted with the set stipulations.But MS still has its drawbacks even if the eyes don't deteriorate. It was clearly shown.



 Except Sasuke caught Oro in genjutsu before they entered the fransferal world.



 Since when. His reactions didn't when he was ill and partially blind against the Jonin.

 I know it has drawbacks which is why I suggested he can handle the strain a lot better than Sasuke (Kage Summit) can.



> He had an unknown illness that we don't know how it specifically effected him. And no it was because he used Tsukuyomi, not because it was broken.



 You're partially correct. It's due to the strain that was caused between 2 strong clashing genjutsu's that caused it, but the fact that Itachi lost suggests the Tsukyomi took much more a toll on him than it did on Sasuke. Here's a scan:



 Notice how Zetsu is shocked that Itachi is suffering from the effects when he believed that Sasuke lost the clash?




> Yet he shot 3 Amaterasu's and fell on the ground coughing up blood.How did his illness effect him? We don't know thus we can't use that as a basis, and isn't Itachi ill in this battle, just because he has a large chakra pool doesn't make him healthy.



 Illness reduced his chakra pool and greatly reduced his ability to handle the strain as well as the fact that he's more prone to the usage of the MS due to being almost blind from the start of the battle.

 And OP stated Itachi was perfectly Healthy.

 FUARK, long response is long.

 Edit: Images still aren't working .


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## IchLiebe (Jan 26, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> Yet Itachi outplayed him with simple sharingan genjutsu and Base Bee was unable to dodge Itachi's Katon and had to resort to blocking it with his partial transformation. I wouldn't be surprised if Edo Itachi had to back away from a guy who can handle KCM Naruto tier opponent if he was using a very unorthodix fighting style to begin with.
> 
> 
> > Complete horse shit again.
> ...


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## Bkprince33 (Jan 26, 2015)

took a few months and come back to the same old things 

the sanin get the piss beat out of them as usual, none of them can cancel tsukiyomi, none of them can avoid amatarasu, and none of them can breach susano and the op gave itachi hashirama chakra for shyts and giggles, the sanin lose mid diff would be the best outcome for them.


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## IchLiebe (Jan 26, 2015)

Swear to god I seen you here just a few weeks ago.


See your still full of shit and posting it.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Jan 26, 2015)

Saikyou said:


> Good ol' Yomi Numa with its Magnetic Pull making enemies unable to jump.



Jump to _where?_


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## Baroxio (Jan 26, 2015)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Jump to _where?_


Wherever the fuck Jiraiya is, unless you think Jiraiya can fly.


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## UchihaX28 (Jan 26, 2015)

IchLiebe said:


> Complete horse shit again.



 HAHA, horseshit, still love the word.



> That sharingan genjutsu had no impact whatsoever on the fight since Bee blocked the attack that was used during then forced Itachi to retreat with the seven swords dance. Also Itachi was able to kill Bee and Naruto and you could say he was going for the kill as Kabuto stated it would be no problem to revive them with Nagato. And he dealt with that katon with out any effects from it. He didn't bleed, he was injured just a little hot is all. And thats Bee power just like that Katon was Itachi's.



 Yet Bee was completely "hypnotized" and left him almost vulnerable to an attack. The only reason he responded is b/c he was quick enough to react and SM Jiraiya's, no, Base Jiraiya's reactions are shit compared to his and we all know Jiraiya needs prep for SM. We also have literally a second where Itachi tells him not to look into his eyes before he attacks. C'mon now, even Nagato wasn't trying to kill Naruto until Kabuto had complete control over him. We can't say Itachi had killer intent b/c Kabuto certainly wasn't completely serious until after he fully controlled Nagato.

 Okay, still didn't stop Bee from taking a hit. And you also seemed to have overlooked that was one of the weakest Katon Itachi had ever used. Obviously it's not going to phuck Bee up. That guy literally tanked a punch in the face by Jugo.



> Kabuto wasn't going to hurt Sasuke, outright stated that. And had to rewrite Itachi. Yet for some reason Itachi was caught by Muki Tensei and tried to protect Sasuke which may not have been an effective defense.



 True, but that didn't stop Kabuto from using his other cells to disable Itachi and Sasuke. There's also the fact that he relied on sneak attacks to disarm Itachi and he was still bushin feinted? 



> Itachi had to rely on Izanami for a reason.



 C'mon now. He needed to use it to use Tsukyomi on Kabuto to end the Edo Tensei.



> He can't bunshin feint infinitely even with Hashirama level chakras. It splits the users chakra pool.



 He only needs a surprise bushin feint like he used on Hebi Sasuke to kick the shit out of him. Jiraiya will be in base which will phuck him up. With god-like chakra levels, there's no way Itachi will hesitate using multiple bushin feints if needed. The clones don't even need that much chakra in order to use it.



> Link removed



 Mmkay?



> Itachi needing help from Sasuke
> Link removed



 I'll give you this, but Jiraiya's genjutsu doesn't even compare as well as the fact that using that genjutsu would've left Kabuto prone to Itachi's genjutsu if it wasn't for Kabuto blocking his senses.



> Link removed


 
 Okay and can Jiraiya block his senses and use strong enough genjutsu where only high level MS genjutsu can disable it? Nope.



> Link removed



 I'm so fuckin done. You only displayed 1 instance. Good job, you deserve a cookie.




> When the fuck did I say that. I stated that Itachi didn't overpower any of Kabuto's ninjutsu in any form. He did the handseals faster, thats all and after Kabuto had done used it twice. I don't know if it was Itachi's or Sasuke's Fireball that bout hit Kabuto that he then proceeded to overpower it with his Suiton.





> also this was in genjutsu so it can't be credited as a user creates the genjutsu and alters the world.



 I prob misunderstood.

 Okay, so Itachi can use handseals faster and basically overpower Jiraiya in that regard with kage bushins and ninjutsu? K thx.

 I don't understand what the 2nd sentence means. If you're asking whether Kabuto overpowered Itachi or Kabuto's Katon, it was Sasuke's Katon. Kabuto's Suiton still overpowered Sasuke's Katon and blew through his Partial Susanoo. Most Suiton are certainly not capable of displaying a destructive force that can blow through Partial Susanoo where even V2 Raikage couldn't even punch through.



> Yes because Kisame is the tail-less tailed beast. He relishes in fighting them. He captured the 4 tails by himself after the incident in question and talked about how it had multiple elemental fusions and he was strong, but Kisame was fine. And they couldn't capture the nine-tails at that point anyways, unless they are going to confine it because they wouldn't be able to seal it until the other 8 are sealed or the gedo becomes unstable.



  Okay and he was still confident in beating the shit out of Killer Bee who he knows fodderized Team Taka who are more than capable of beating Jiraiya in Base.



> You mean old ass Hiruzen? He fodderized an Orochimaru that was needing a body as soon as possible and tried to force it on Itachi. His mistake but he still survived.



 You mean old ass Hiruzen with one of the strongest seals ever displayed and was hyped up to be the strongest Hokage? mmmkay den.



> They showed no fear nor respect towards Naruto, the Kyuubi, nor Sasuke during their exchanges. Jiraiya shows up and is called the great Jiraiya by Kisame. And Kisame even said that Itachi and him could fought however they like since it was further from the village. Also I never not one time seen Kisame mention a beast. Hell they even tried to lure Jiraiya away with a woman put under genjutsu, which he noticed and undone(Never seen Kisame using genjutsu have you). And Jiraiya even told them they would die by his hands right then and there, and he used one technique and Itachi used MS UAR.Toad Oil Katon doesn't need SM the Oil is flammable and then in collaboration with Orochimaru's great wind breakthrough. Jiraiya showed adeptness with SM. THe Frogs is a lot more strenuous and difficult to learn than a snake biting you.



 Okay and Part 1 tends to hype a lot of ninjas who eventually are shown to be fodder? What's ur point?

 Kisame never was scared shitless to the point of mentioning inferiority to Jiraiya.

 Kisame used genjutsu?

 I know it doesn't, but senjutsu powers it up. Without it, he doesn't stand a chance.

 Okay, but does Frog Song compare to SM Kabuto's genjutsu? Nope. Itachi easily hard counters it, but they're not doing shit when Itachi just Amaterasu's Jiraiya trying to run away.







> Because its a collaboration jutsu, the toad oil and katon is effective. All you don't throw water on flaming oil...anyone would be fucked after that inferno.


 
 Sorry, but can you word that a little bit better?



> Because Itachi stated that Naruto was growing by using a genjutsu breaking method but Naruto wasn't skilled enough at that point and wasted alot of chakra. If that Naruto could be complimented by Itachi for using a method Jiraiya taught him then that should mean that Jiraiya can break Itachi's genjutsu by using a genjutsu breaking method. ANd Jiraiya also says that a ninja must know how to defend against genjutsu.Don't know about Sasuke as using genjutsu was rather useless to begin with. Anyone with 3 tomoe would be able to see through it.
> Kurenai noticed immediately what was happening. Bee as well since the crows scattered and turned into shuriken.



 Kakashi even knows that yet can't afford being caught by Itachi's genjutsu. Jiraiya gets fucked up.

 True, but my main point was that Itachi used subtle genjutsu.

 Haha no. Kurenai was hard countered and shat herself when Itachi set up a genjutsu counter. She didn't even see it coming.

 No he didn't. He was dazed until it took a while for the Hachibi to be able to tell him to wake up.





> replied at the end of your points make it easier.But didn't, if he could he would've. But he didn't. But Orochimaru doesn't need to be close if he doesn't have to. He has summons and Edos.



 Add Danzo to list.

 Still missing the point. Sasuke still outright used genjutsu. 

 Btw, Sasuke used Sharingan genjutsu on C. You can tell he had a 3 Tomoe after using it on C yet Itachi still had his MS activated after using his Tsukyomi on Sasuke.



> Yea because Im sure the head Uchiha would love to troll one of the only living Senjus with lolgenjutsu after being revived, honestly I would.And, Bee Also threw his sword that distance before Amaterasu was shot after being cast. And the Katsuyu would notice his chakra is disrupted and break him out before Itachi can capitalize.And none of them were confirmed to be of any great caliber other than Fugakuku and didn't have MS. Seemingly, oh you mean Tobi slipping through objects slaughtering folks at a whim is unreasonable after it was stated that he played a part. Im sure Tobi did most the work.



 Or actually see them suffer instead of using lolgenjutsu? If he enjoyed trolling the Kages, then why didn't he just troll the shit out of Ei with genjutsu instead of beating the shit out of them with his clones? 

 Or he can just use Susanoo and seal Katsuyu as each slug is linked together.

 Oh wait, also forgot to add it was assumed he killed Shisui. Epic hype. Him killing the Secret Police which was believed to be on his own is still an impressive feat considering Oro only came after him a few years after that all that happened. It's funny how Oro wanted the Sharingan based on the knowledge he had on it yet was still phucked up by basic sharingan genjutsu.



> Genjutsu feat against a 5yearold....WOW.



 Since when did I mention a 5 yr old?





> Im done fuck this



 Same. Good debate though. It takes me a good 30-40 minutes to reply to you.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Jan 26, 2015)

Baroxio said:


> Wherever the fuck Jiraiya is, unless you think Jiraiya can fly.



I wouldn't be surprised if Jiraiya could stand on his own jutsu, in the same way Mei can stand in her own acid, or Kotetsu could run on top of Izumo's sticky goo.  Or if he had a frog for that.  Jumping into the sannin is not smart anyway.


----------



## UchihaX28 (Jan 26, 2015)

Fuark IchLiebe. Was going to rep you for your solid argument yet I had already repped you before.

 Damn it.


----------



## Baroxio (Jan 27, 2015)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if Jiraiya could stand on his own jutsu, in the same way Mei can stand in her own acid, or Kotetsu could run on top of Izumo's sticky goo.  Or if he had a frog for that.  Jumping into the sannin is not smart anyway.


I wouldn't be surprised if Yata's Mirror, the weapon that was said to be able to nullify any technique, could, you know, nullify Yomi Numa, a technique. 

Either way, Jiraiya is far slower than Itachi and can't effectively push him off any toad he summons to surf the swamp.

Plus, I suppose Tsunade and Orochimaru drown in said swamp as well, so unless they all want to huddle up in a single dry patch of land as easy Totsuka/Amaterasu bait, there should be plenty of places to stand, for those with the ability to "jump good."


----------



## Sword of the Morning (Jan 27, 2015)

Ofc the OP would give Itachi such high enhancements because hes tiers below the sannin as feats show.


----------



## Alex Payne (Jan 27, 2015)

trance said:


> Rules: Itachi has Hashirama level chakra. Itachi's eyes won't fade.





Replace Narutos with Itachis+Susanos. Throwing Magatamas, using Amaterasu and stabbing with Totsuka. 

I guess Itachi-hate is still too strong. 70+ posts. I guess Hashirama's chakra is like a couple more clones and one more shot of MS.


----------



## Icegaze (Jan 27, 2015)

IchLiebe said:


> I know what Yata Mirrors' says. It in no way suggest that it would block YM since it isn't omnidirectional and only repel attacks it touches. Sure it could repel part of the swamp, but wouldn't where Itachi is standing and thus be circumvented. Well then you can't comprehend or your blind.Well first of all it irrelevant as Kimi used his boneforest under the sand to begin with and moved through the bones. Which there is no reason to suggest he can't do to yomi numa, but he would be submerged and unable to break through like he did to gaara's coffin.Jiraiya wasn't trying to sink it, he was just stopping its movements of which it did. And no because he was still trapped in the swamp and couldn't move and then was caught in Frog song.
> 
> YOu are so fucking delusional.It doesn't as that scan showed.
> 
> ...



sorry mind proving that tsunade heals faster than amaterasu burns. Even if she did would be pointless. She will keep burning. I love how you make stuff up. 

sadly you did flip flop on me so i give up. 

You clearly said human path didnt sink because he had chakra in his feet. i shall copy and paste what you said again. For good measure. 

*But if they were walking on the ceiling that would mean chakra going through his feet thus couldn't be dragged under by Yomi Numa*

You wrote that!!!

I am delusional no doubt however you are daft. and its sad

yata>>YM. kishi said so and implied it. Ym is an elemental ninjutsu. it can not be omnidirectional good, however the thing weilding it is. And therefore can move with it. 

common place logic defeats you daily


----------



## Baroxio (Jan 27, 2015)

Itachi's Amaterasu burns faster than Nagato's Edo Tensei regeneration, to say nothing of Cerberus Regen.

Tsunade's healing ain't got nothing on either. This isn't Sasuke's Amaterasu we're talking about here, afterall.


----------



## Icegaze (Jan 27, 2015)

nooooo dont answer. i want ichibe to answer with of course his usual irrefutable proofs 

Though i wonder how that makes tsunade any relevant in a fight against itachi. she simply dies 20/10 times


----------



## IchLiebe (Jan 27, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> sorry mind proving that tsunade heals faster than amaterasu burns. Even if she did would be pointless. She will keep burning. I love how you make stuff up.


Simple, look at her regeneration speed and then look how Amaterasu was barely burning when she was caught by it, the Samurai armor was protecting the Samurai from it for a duration.


> sadly you did flip flop on me so i give up.
> 
> You clearly said human path didnt sink because he had chakra in his feet. i shall copy and paste what you said again. For good measure.
> 
> ...


Yes but he was dragged under, not completely but to an extent and couldn't move. I also said that if that was counter to Yomi Numa then Jiraiya wouldn't have even attempted it since walking on water, structures or what have you is something that is capable of any chunnin and most gennins.



> I am delusional no doubt however you are daft. and its sad


Im not foolish. Notice how I didn't call you ignorant or what have you but what you actually are...delusional because despite the strong evidence against your belief you refuse to believe it. Of course you could say the same about me however it wouldn't be true.





> yata>>YM. kishi said so and implied it. Ym is an elemental ninjutsu. it can not be omnidirectional good, however the thing weilding it is. And therefore can move with it.


yata>>>*Y*(ata)*M*(irror)   ??? They are the same.

Also No its not said so and implied in any form or fashion that Yata Mirror is superior to Yomi Numa in a clash. Given the mechanics of both Yomi Numa circumvents Yata Mirror as it is cast over an area, it doesn't take over areas.

Even If Yata does repel the swamp its touching, What then? Itachi is still anchored to the ground and being pulled in by Yomi Numa(given Jiraiya being bloodlusted he would summon the largest swamp possible). Also best to fight a Uchiha at distance if possible and that would help them in creating distance between the combatants. 

He can't move it underneath him. He's he wields a shield, with an arm that has a structure likened to that of Humans. Not to mention Itachi's Susanoo is legged, only has one face, and Itachi is anchored to the ground, he would literally have to cut his feet off with Yata to do what you suggest...thats idiotic.Itachi can't move while sustaining that form of Susanoo, he is ANCHORED to the GROUND



> common place logic defeats you daily



hahaha   Keep believing that...



And at whomever said that Amaterasu burned faster than Edo Nagato's regen. 

Im not sure if you are ascribing that to ET or Nagato but either way. ET doesn't constantly regen, one starts the regen process after damage stops being inflicted. Nagato was shown to have any healing properties that I know of nor that the Rinnegan granted. He was an Uzamaki but he was never stated to have one of any significant note.


----------



## Lawrence777 (Jan 27, 2015)

Considering Itachi can manifest Susano'o away from his person[1] would it not be a viable counter for Itachi to simply have his Susano'o pick him up and elevate his body outside of the swamp?


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Jan 27, 2015)

Baroxio said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if Yata's Mirror, the weapon that was said to be able to nullify any technique, could, you know, nullify Yomi Numa, a technique.
> 
> Either way, Jiraiya is far slower than Itachi and can't effectively push him off any toad he summons to surf the swamp.
> 
> Plus, I suppose Tsunade and Orochimaru drown in said swamp as well, so unless they all want to huddle up in a single dry patch of land as easy Totsuka/Amaterasu bait, there should be plenty of places to stand, for those with the ability to "jump good."



I would, considering it's defensive power lies in blocking offensive attacks as an impenetrable shield in the area is blocks, and not in projecting a spontaneous nullification field.

Jiraiya isn't slow.

What's with your aggression?



> Replace Narutos with Itachis+Susanos. Throwing Magatamas, using Amaterasu and stabbing with Totsuka.



I thought about that.  But even if Itachi's eyes don't degrade, Susano still damages and strains the body without EMS.  I think clones would pop like Naruto's do after 1 tail.  Ameterasu might be possible.


----------



## Transcendent Shinobi (Jan 27, 2015)

lol this fight is pointless...........

Give anyone Hashirama level chakra and they solo 99% of the naruto universe.

What you really should have done is put regular itachi vs sannin and then see how everyone says he gets raped lol


----------



## Baroxio (Jan 27, 2015)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> I would, considering it's defensive power lies in blocking offensive attacks as an impenetrable shield in the area is blocks, and not in projecting a spontaneous nullification field.
> 
> Jiraiya isn't slow.
> 
> ...


I didn't say Jiraiya was slow. I said he was far slower than Itachi, which to be fair, is true of basically 90% of the Narutoverse.

And I'm not being aggressive, believe me.

Well, at least I'm not trying to be.


----------



## Lawrence777 (Jan 27, 2015)

Most of the Sannin's offense including Tsunade's strength, Orochimaru's snake summons and non elemental ninjutsu, and Jiraiya's elemental jutsu can be countered/blocked by the v4 Susano'o with Yata Mirror imo, and with Hashi's reserves he can sustain this defense throughout the fight. 

Jiraiya has some attacks that can potentially get around it, namely his sound jutsu(s), but he starts in base and is unable to use them here. I doubt Jiraiya'll be able to reach SM here either, what with Itachi being given full knowledge on Jiraiya's sage mode here it's a longshot Itachi'd let him reach it.

Really, collectively speaking as a whole the only threatening thing to Itachi (in Susano'o) would be the off chance of Jiraiya choosing to use yomi numa out of the greater repertoire of his abilities, which even then would more so be an inconvenience. 

Susano'o can simply lift him out of it. Even assuming the YM wouldn't change to raiton the moment the swamp came into contact with it as that's what it's supposed to do(it's entry is hyperbolic ridden to be fair, but it being explicitly stated to change elemental composition does not constitute hyperbole).

Conversely, any of Itachi's mangekyou attacks, Tsukiyomi/Amaterasu/Totsuka, are readily lethal to the sannin, and Itachi has full knowledge and bloodlust to use the best given one on the best given target that can't counter it.
Itachi's  better positioned to win IMO.


----------



## IchLiebe (Jan 27, 2015)

Susanoo still has drawback that affect his body.


----------



## UchihaX28 (Jan 27, 2015)

IchLiebe said:


> Susanoo still has drawback that affect his body.



 Yet Sasuke spammed techniques non-stop and couldn't even handle V4 Susanoo while Itachi could when being ill without his MS activated.

 Susanoo obviously has drawbacks, but Sasuke was literally cringing at the fact that Itachi could completely master Susanoo and use it the way he did compared to Sasuke who was already whining about a little bit of V2 Susanoo usage.


----------



## Icegaze (Jan 28, 2015)

IchLiebe said:


> Simple, look at her regeneration speed and then look how Amaterasu was barely burning when she was caught by it, the Samurai armor was protecting the Samurai from it for a duration.
> Yes but he was dragged under, not completely but to an extent and couldn't move. I also said that if that was counter to Yomi Numa then Jiraiya wouldn't have even attempted it since walking on water, structures or what have you is something that is capable of any chunnin and most gennins.
> 
> Im not foolish. Notice how I didn't call you ignorant or what have you but what you actually are...delusional because despite the strong evidence against your belief you refuse to believe it. Of course you could say the same about me however it wouldn't be true.yata>>>*Y*(ata)*M*(irror)   ??? They are the same.
> ...



i wouldnt even bother arguing with you which is quicker between amaterasu which burnt sasuke body in half in 1 panel, burn toad stomach in the same amount of time. 

when has tsunade healed from any major injury quickly?? Also how would her healing help her defeat it? she gets hit she dies. she cant avoid getting hit she is useless. the end 

You are flip flopping hence the insults. you said yourself chakra in feet prevented human path from sinking all the way. therefore itachi can do the same thing. 

also YM=yata mirror (the only relevant YM there is) can defeat the lesser YM 
why it nullifies the elemental ninjutsu. not just the part its touching. 

preta absorbs the ninjutsu entirely not just the first part of it that makes contact. 

can preta absorb yomi numa?

anywayz as for yomi numa GG. when you provide panels of it dragging anyone under the abyss let me know


----------



## IchLiebe (Jan 28, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> i wouldnt even bother arguing with you which is quicker between amaterasu which burnt sasuke body in half in 1 panel, burn toad stomach in the same amount of time.


Itachi used Amaterasu to break through the stomach. How he did it we don't know, we have never seen Amaterasu have such force behind it. Took Sasuke a second to burn as well.

Sasuke had superior Amaterasu control any way.





> when has tsunade healed from any major injury quickly?? Also how would her healing help her defeat it? she gets hit she dies. she cant avoid getting hit she is useless. the end


She can heal herself. Especially if she batted away Madara's katons while not using regen. She was stabbed by Orochimaru straight through the chest a fatal injury.

Of course she dies, but to say she dies instantly is ridiculous she would atleast live for 3 minutes, but she is more or less useless, Katusuyu is the strong one.





> You are flip flopping hence the insults. you said yourself chakra in feet prevented human path from sinking all the way. therefore itachi can do the same thing.


NO THE GOD DAMNED FUCK I DIDN"T. YOUR FUCKING CHERRY PICKING MY FUCKING POST.

Are you this fucking dense. Truly ridiculous. I never not one god damned time said that.

I said that if it "WAS" fucking WAS, as in it ISN"T but if it WAS such a viable counter than no ninja especially Jiraiya in the situation he was in against Pain would use it other than to troll gennins.

Im not flip flopping shit, you can't comprehend a fucking thing much.





> also YM=yata mirror (the only relevant YM there is) can defeat the lesser YM


Numa is spelt with an 'N' not a 'M'. 





> why it nullifies the elemental ninjutsu. not just the part its touching.


Can you prove that if it touches a jutsu that the entire jutsu fails.? I remember it blocking an explosive tag(not elemental) and a sword.

I also thought that it repelled no nullify shit. which still wouldn't do anything.





> preta absorbs the ninjutsu entirely not just the first part of it that makes contact.
> 
> can preta absorb yomi numa?


Yes because Preta drags chakra around him in and if its a chakra structure then yes and has shown no limits. However YM hasn't shown any of that.



> anywayz as for yomi numa GG. when you provide panels of it dragging anyone under the abyss let me know


Well Orochimaru's snake couldn't be dragged under due to the swamp being shallow but it still wasn't able to get out of the swamp. The path didn't need to be sunk into as Frog Song was about to be cast.


Shut the FUCK UP. How many panels have you provided? 5, 6 maybe and a big fucking maybe 7?

You ask for panels yet you know they don't exist. I can play that game all fucking day for your delusional ass by just asking you for panels that don't exist. Show me Amaterasu ever killing anyone.



Yomi Numa and Acid Bath, GOOD GOD DAMN GAME.


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## Icegaze (Jan 28, 2015)

IchLiebe said:


> Itachi used Amaterasu to break through the stomach. How he did it we don't know, we have never seen Amaterasu have such force behind it. Took Sasuke a second to burn as well.
> 
> Sasuke had superior Amaterasu control any way.She can heal herself. Especially if she batted away Madara's katons while not using regen. She was stabbed by Orochimaru straight through the chest a fatal injury.
> 
> ...



Still flip flopping 
Copied and pasted your post twice 
Your argument is invalid 
Stop being buthurt 

Nice fanfic with how long tsunade lasts . She is still useless in this battle


----------



## IchLiebe (Jan 28, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> Still flip flopping
> Copied and pasted your post twice
> Your argument is invalid
> Stop being buthurt
> ...



My last post page 3



			
				Ichliebe said:
			
		

> Well the path was able to manipulate chakra and they showed to be very adept at it, I see no reason why a ninja such of that caliber would be caught by something a genin can defend against. And I see no reason to suggest that Jiraiya would use such a technique against Orochimaru and the Rinnegan if it could be so easily circumvented.




Atleast I have a fucking argument. Your argument is now based around that Im flip flopping as a way to show you are right....WTF? And what is pathetic is you obviously seen that yet went to a later post and cherry picked it to your liking.



			
				ichliebe said:
			
		

> But if they were walking on the ceiling that would mean chakra going through his feet thus couldn't be dragged under by Yomi Numa.


 Understand when I said that I was using that as a reference to why it wouldn't work because the path was still immobilized and sinking into it, though being on the roof it couldn't be very deep and didn't have to be.




Learn to multiquote and you might be able to debate with some sense.

Every fucking time I prove you wrong, every fucking time.


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## UchihaX28 (Jan 28, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> Still flip flopping
> Copied and pasted your post twice
> Your argument is invalid
> Stop being buthurt
> ...



 Agreed. Even if Tsunade does decide to not look into Itachi's eyes to avoid Tsukyomi, her fighting style will eventually get sloppy like it was against Madara as stated by Ei and will leave her susceptible to a bushin feint.


----------



## Icegaze (Jan 29, 2015)

what narutoX28 said 
as for ichie, take a walk you said what you said. its written clear as day. if you want to deny it now. its called flip flopping.


----------



## Bkprince33 (Jan 29, 2015)

Transcendent Shinobi said:


> lol this fight is pointless...........
> 
> Give anyone Hashirama level chakra and they solo 99% of the naruto universe.
> 
> What you really should have done is put regular itachi vs sannin and then see how everyone says he gets raped lol



well someone sounds salty 


i would still argue regular healthy itachi or edo itachi with full knowledge and a close enough starting distance, would still beat the piss out of the sanin, by simply erecting s4 susano and start slashing away, none of them can breach susano with yata mirror and none of them are avoiding totsuka.


----------



## IchLiebe (Jan 29, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> what narutoX28 said
> as for ichie, take a walk you said what you said. its written clear as day. if you want to deny it now. its called flip flopping.



And you can't fucking PROVE it.


----------



## Icegaze (Jan 29, 2015)

written by ichibe on page 4

*But if they were walking on the ceiling that would mean chakra going through his feet thus couldn't be dragged under by Yomi Numa.
*

and he tries to claim he aint a flip flopper


----------



## IchLiebe (Jan 29, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> written by ichibe on page 4
> 
> *But if they were walking on the ceiling that would mean chakra going through his feet thus couldn't be dragged under by Yomi Numa.
> *
> ...



Again your comphrehension is shit.



			
				Ichliebe said:
			
		

> Its fucking shown, after he crushes he stops doing anything, doesn't have sensing sand and was surprised that he was alive...thus Gaara thought the fight was over. I said "Abyss like". It is as deep as the user wants it. Do you know what the definition of abyss is? *Well the path was able to manipulate chakra and they showed to be very adept at it, I see no reason why a ninja such of that caliber would be caught by something a genin can defend against. And I see no reason to suggest that Jiraiya would use such a technique against Orochimaru and the Rinnegan if it could be so easily circumvented.
> 
> But if they were walking on the ceiling that would mean chakra going through his feet thus couldn't be dragged under by Yomi Numa.
> *




But if they were walking on the ceiling that would mean chakra going through his feet thus couldn't be dragged under by Yomi Numa...Meaning that if what you suggested was true than the path wouldn't have went under the swamp at all and would've been able to move. That was not shown, what was is that the path was submerged(to a degree) and couldn't move.



And that was in response your post, specifically this part right here:


			
				Icegaze said:
			
		

> Why cant chakra under feet stop you from being pulled under? Or amaterasu heat reverting it back. If chakra on feet can be a counter to ST a much more superior technique why cant it be to yomi numa??


----------



## Icegaze (Jan 30, 2015)

fine, i get you. 
it still featless and has never sunk anyone. 

i might as well just say amaterasu with kamui level speed burns all 3 of them. 

its as ridiculous as YN being anything more than a stall tactic 


neither have feats to suggest they can do that


----------



## Ispeau (Jan 31, 2015)

In my opinion, edo Itachi(he had infinite chakra) had to have won Naruto and Bee in a instant. He had to be considered more powerfull than original Madara. Just in theory, but in pratice...

After a I saw him in the return, I don't think he would solo the sannins.


----------



## Bookworm (Jan 31, 2015)

Wasn't the reason that Human path was "sucked" into YN because Animal path pushed off his back?


----------



## UchihaX28 (Jan 31, 2015)

How did this become a discussion about Yomi Numa's capabilities?


----------



## Icegaze (Feb 1, 2015)

@narutoX28
Because itachi not uchiha haters but itachi hater and jiraiya fans 
Somehow think YN can GG 99% of the verse 
Despite having no feats to back it up . As far as jutsu are concerned it's one of the most featless . Doing anything to a fodder snake means nothing . Practically ever ninja above jounin level can put down that snake in 1 move 

The only similar jutsu to YN ever used was escaped from by a sick Kimimaro who ran out of chakra . 

But yes sure I guess Kishi gave them info we don't have . 

Did you know some think a technique never described as instantaneous can sink any ninja at kamui level speed


----------



## UchihaX28 (Feb 1, 2015)

I'm not sure, but even if YN manages to suck Itachi in, wouldn't it be possible just to reform Susanoo to break through as shown here:

It did the moment after


----------



## Baroxio (Feb 1, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> I'm not sure, but even if YN manages to suck Itachi in, wouldn't it be possible just to reform Susanoo to break through as shown here:
> 
> It did the moment after


Another good point, but you'll have people claiming it only works with Perfect Susano because _reasons_.


----------



## Icegaze (Feb 1, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> I'm not sure, but even if YN manages to suck Itachi in, wouldn't it be possible just to reform Susanoo to break through as shown here:
> 
> It did the moment after



excellent point 
now watch people say the crushing force of YN wont allow it. even though kishi mentions nothing about crushing force 

and only PS can do that. 

i seriously dont see how, a tech not even worth mentioning by tsunade, orochimaru, jiraiya, naruto, shizune is worth the hype. none of them went on about how the technique is super hax or anything. 

same cant be said about actual jutsu capable of GG.


----------



## IchLiebe (Feb 2, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> excellent point
> now watch people say the crushing force of YN wont allow it. even though kishi mentions nothing about crushing force
> 
> and only PS can do that.


No just the sheer size that PS is was able to force the small amount of sand away. Susanoo isn't a shroud. If someone is inside a tank, then we fill that tank with concrete, making another tank won't get him out, he'll still be in the concrete.





> i seriously dont see how, a tech not even worth mentioning by tsunade, orochimaru, jiraiya, naruto, shizune is worth the hype. none of them went on about how the technique is super hax or anything.
> 
> same cant be said about actual jutsu capable of GG.


Many jutsu can be GG and don't get mentioned. Jiraiya mentioned an used it in two circumstances that one could consider dire. Jiraiya also commented on how shallow it was. Why would Tsunade and Orochimaru comment on it, its one of Jiraiya's basic jutsu and they have probably seen on more than one occasion, Shizune and Naruto are dumb and can barely handle Kabuto much less pay attention to drugged Jiraiya fight an armless Orochimaru.

Whats funny is that you think this is the only argument. Yall said Yomi Numa can redirect anything, it can be circumvented however. Yall said Amaterasu GG, but it burns slowly and Itachi can't manipulate it that well, and then Tsukuyomi...which is a none factor. Then finger genjutsu, of which Jiraiya can break himself out of, Orochimaru can aswell(he shown to use the kai method, same as Jiraiya. Itachi just chopped of his hand before he completed doing it in their encounter), and Katsuyu has a link with the Sannin. 

Then we have the summons.

Frogs- High powered suitons, Gama has a good Katon and they can spit toad oil. Can jump out of range of any of Itachi attacks. Gama can fight against bijuu.

Snakes- can attack from underground, very large and quick.

Katsuyu- Very corrosive acid spit in large volumes. Size varies, can split and divide, heal, and pump chakra into her connections.

Then you have Frog Song, Hydra technique, Edo Tensei...feel like im forgetting something.

Itachi on the other hand has Susanoo and Amaterasu that he can effectively rely on throughout the battle.


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## IchLiebe (Feb 2, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> @narutoX28
> Because itachi not uchiha haters but itachi hater and jiraiya fans
> Somehow think YN can GG 99% of the verse
> Despite having no feats to back it up . As far as jutsu are concerned it's one of the most featless . Doing anything to a fodder snake means nothing . Practically ever ninja above jounin level can put down that snake in 1 move


Yet the same is said of Yata Mirror and Amaterasu despite their lack of feats and showing.

And Jiraiya did. The snake couldn't get out of the swamp and it couldn't sink due to it being too shallow which was a direct result of the condition Jiraiya was in at that moment.

YM took an Explosive tag and Sasuke's sword attack(which regular Susanoo should take with ease) and hydra attack(which we have no idea how powerful it is).

Amaterasu isn't instant, and has never appeared right on some way in the way that is suggested by Itachi fans. Hell Itachi even missed Sasuke with Amaterasu a couple of times.

Hell despite SM Kabuto fucking ITachi up over and over, he somehow was wrecking Kabuto. Same with Bee, who was keeping pace with Itachi and forced him to retreat and use MS against Naruto whom was already having a difficult time with Cerebrus. And KCM Naruto despite that wasn't even a fucking skirmish, and Naruto was so out of character for a fight it wasn't even hard to see, yet yall think KCM Naruto was blood lusted and used everything in his power to skirmish against Itachi.



You get a rock and you want to build a stone wall.



> The only similar jutsu to YN ever used was escaped from by a sick Kimimaro who ran out of chakra .


Kimmi didn't run out of chakra, he died of his sickness which he truly had. His time was running out long before that day.

And Kimmi didn't claw his way back to the surface, he used bone forest(extend the bones 200meters+ to the top and travel through the bone).





> But yes sure I guess Kishi gave them info we don't have .


Its in the fucking manga plain as day. If you are too ignorant to see the mechanics of something when it is clearly shown than that is your problem. You even claim YM block Yomi Numa despite YM never showing it dispels an entire jutsu.

You are so fucking butt hurt.





> Did you know some think a technique never described as instantaneous can sink any ninja at kamui level speed


Did we ever say that. Did anyone ever even hint at that? FUCK NO. YOu are making shit up and putting words in other peoples' mouth. 

The thing is that Itachi if caught has no way of escaping, even if its just 3 feet deep, because of the mechanics and that it restricts movements. Have you ever been to a swamp and had to walk through it...fucking hell, within 10 minutes at best you are dog tired. And this swamp makes it where you can't move but a couple of inches at best because of its makeup. And thats Itachi's final Susanoo 'anchors' him to the ground. He can't move, can't jump, he is 'anchored'.


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## 08monaa (Feb 4, 2015)

ARGUS said:


> With these conditions, Itachi wins this mid diff at most
> 
> - first of all tsunade gets immediately one shotted by either totsuka or Amaterasu, the Latters continous burning affect counters byakugou hard, and the flames completely consume the oxygen around tsunade leaving her unable to fight
> 
> ...




Tsunade's regeneration means she replaces old damged cells with new cells she can replace the burnt cells with new ones thus stopping the burning cycle and didn't Karin withstand the pain of Amaterasu.you do know Tsunade survived being cut in half for a long period of time logic doesn't apply to her. While rusty she was able to lift Gambaunta sword I'm pretty sure with Byakugou she could at least lift Totsuka.

I'll argue the rest Later.


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## Kami Ki Shinsen (Feb 4, 2015)

08monaa said:


> Tsunade's regeneration means she replaces old damged cells with new cells she can replace the burnt cells with new ones thus stopping the burning cycle and didn't Karin withstand the pain of Amaterasu.



Well first, Sasuke was able to burn off the fourth Raikage's arm with an Amaterasu and  Itachi should be superior with the usage of the same technique, karin being able to withstand the Amaterasu is an example of her having a high endurance not durability. 




> you do know Tsunade survived being cut in half for a long period of time logic doesn't apply to her. While rusty she was able to lift Gambaunta sword I'm pretty sure with Byakugou she could at least lift Totsuka.


 
If she take damage equal to being cut in half with a tree then she's pretty much out of the fight. This is backed up by her being shown to be incapacitated after she did get cut by the tree. if anything this shows endurance not durability. And obviously Itachi's Totsuka blade is more powerful than a tree and i doubt that Tsunadae would be able to avoid it.


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## IchLiebe (Feb 4, 2015)

Kami Ki Shinsen said:


> Well first, Sasuke was able to burn off the fourth Raikage's arm with an Amaterasu and  Itachi should be superior with the usage of the same technique, karin being able to withstand the Amaterasu is an example of her having a high endurance not durability.


Actually A cut off his own arm so that the flames wouldn't spread. We have no idea how long it would've taken to burn his arm off, also A wasn't even in pain. 

Stamina had nothing to do with either of these situations. Why you ascribe them as such is beyond me. Amaterasu is weak as fuck. The only good thing we seen it do was burn through toad stomach. The Samurais were protected by their armor for a duration of time as well.



> If she take damage equal to being cut in half with a tree then she's pretty much out of the fight. This is backed up by her being shown to be incapacitated after she did get cut by the tree. if anything this shows endurance not durability. And obviously Itachi's Totsuka blade is more powerful than a tree and i doubt that Tsunadae would be able to avoid it.


Her stamina and durability are a entwined in that form though. She batted away Madara's katons in base. Also Kabuto would start healing before getting hit so that the damage wouldn't be nearly as bad. Tsunade released is always healing thus she is taking less damage overall then what she would in base.


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## Icegaze (Feb 4, 2015)

Amaterasu fodderizes tsunade with negative difficulty 
She would have to seal the flames or have the ability to get them off her 
She has neither 
She will heal 
Keep burning and heal again effectively putting her out of the fight till jiraiya tried to seal it


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## ARGUS (Feb 4, 2015)

whats the commotion about Yomi Numa being a game changer? its not doing shit here 

 -- Itachis sharingan can see through the hand seals, so he can already see it coming, and jump up to evade it

 -- itachi can also use katon to harden the sand and reduce its sucking affects, enabling him to get out, or itachi can simply break freee from susanoo, which can use its slash to plow through all the surrounding mud 

 -- jiraiya attempting to counterattack once he has used YN is even worse when it leaves him in the same condition as itachi, the only difference is that itachi doesnt need to physically move to cast jutsus like genjutsu, amaterasu, and susanoo so jiraiya is only putting himself in danger 




08monaa said:


> Tsunade's regeneration means she replaces old damged cells with new cells she can replace the burnt cells with new ones thus stopping the burning cycle and didn't Karin withstand the pain of Amaterasu.you do know Tsunade survived being cut in half for a long period of time logic doesn't apply to her. While rusty she was able to lift Gambaunta sword I'm pretty sure with Byakugou she could at least lift Totsuka.
> 
> I'll argue the rest Later.



Except amaterasu will still continue to burn all the new cells that she is attepting to replace, so her regeneration is still useless when she is still going to burn continously 

whats worse is that the flames will consume all the oxygen around her so she would just be a big flaming fire ball, and wont be able to fight anymore,


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## Kami Ki Shinsen (Feb 4, 2015)

> Amaterasu is weak as fuck. The only good thing we seen it do was burn through toad stomach. The Samurais were protected by their armor for a duration of time as well.



You claimed Amaterasu is weak? BM Killer Bee says otherwise. (Chapter 415-Page 7)



> stamina and durability are a entwined in that form though. She batted away Madara's katons in base. Also Kabuto would start healing before getting hit so that the damage wouldn't be nearly as bad. Tsunade released is always healing thus she is taking less damage overall then what she would in base.



Tsunade may be able to regenerate but the initial damage is not reduced in any way. Can you provide at least one example where her technique has enabled her to reduce damage, not to be confused with just regenerating?


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## All The Good Names Are Taken (Feb 4, 2015)

Kami Ki Shinsen said:


> You claimed Amaterasu is weak? BM Killer Bee says otherwise. (Chapter 415-Page 7)
> 
> 
> 
> *Tsunadae *may be able to regenerate but the initial damage is not reduced in any way. Can you provide at least one example where her technique has enabled her to reduce damage, not to be confused with just regenerating?



Tsunade. 10char


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## Bkprince33 (Feb 5, 2015)

Itachi casually evades yomi after seeing the hand signs, much like he evaded bee's faster sword strike without even looking.

Yata can negate it with the elemental wheel.
Crows can fly over and genjutsu jiraiya for shits and giggles.

Susano can simply hold itachi over the swamp and itachi can jump off his susano hand and reform it, i mean like seriously, the swamp isn't doing shyt  let's cut it out kids


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## IchLiebe (Feb 6, 2015)

Kami Ki Shinsen said:


> You claimed Amaterasu is weak? BM Killer Bee says otherwise. (Chapter 415-Page 7)


Then look at Karin when she got hit with the flames and the Samurai. Bee was trying to escape and did just fine. Amaterasu didn't do shit but help him escape.





> Tsunade may be able to regenerate but the initial damage is not reduced in any way. Can you provide at least one example where her technique has enabled her to reduce damage, not to be confused with just regenerating?



Look at Kabuto. He started healing before Rasengan hit to reduce the damage, there is no reason why Tsunade, a superior medic, wouldn't be able to do the same, plus the mechanics are the exact same only difference is that Tsunade automatically regenerates constantly.


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## Arles Celes (Feb 6, 2015)

If Itachi simply got infinite chakra but it does not affect his jutsus and their quality then he is owned hard.

However, if somehow he can use crazy big jutsus like some Susanoo version of Shinsenjuu then the Sannin are stomped.


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## Icegaze (Feb 6, 2015)

The only threat is jiraiya. 
kishi said so on panel 
the rest get quickly dispatched by itachi


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 6, 2015)

IchLiebe said:


> Then look at Karin when she got hit with the flames and the Samurai. Bee was trying to escape and did just fine. Amaterasu didn't do shit but help him escape.
> 
> Look at Kabuto. He started healing before Rasengan hit to reduce the damage, there is no reason why Tsunade, a superior medic, wouldn't be able to do the same, plus the mechanics are the exact same only difference is that Tsunade automatically regenerates constantly.



 She's still going to get burned constantly regardless. 

 Also:

 [2]

 Tsunade won't be able to regenerate from this.

 [2]

 Nagato's summon is shown that it can't regenerate from Amaterasu, so Tsunade's not regenerating from Amaterasu (at least at a quick enough rate to negate the damage).


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## Grimmjowsensei (Feb 7, 2015)

With these conditions, Itachi accidentally kills Sannin. Unholy stomp is what this is.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Feb 7, 2015)

With a high chakra capacity, Itachi could use the MS on Sasuke's level minus the superior use of Enton and Susanoo. 

Since he lacks the legged form of Susanoo, he's forced to use the universal Susanoo with Yata's Mirror and Totsuka. Itachi's not high level enough to handle all the Sannin without it. 

Though all this really means is that Itachi doesn't need to be so chakra conscious, he can utilise strategies he couldn't before. 
But he won't be dumb about it since Tsunade's medical Ninjutsu effectively means the Sannin have no chakra issues; she'll be focusing on just 2 (3 if you count herself) people. 

Itachi could last longer, but I'd still give it to the Sannin more times than not. Though considering BL mindset, the Sannin would obviously win.


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## SM00TH38 (Feb 12, 2015)

man after all this time ppl still hyping yomi numi.... this is sad ppl come on


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## Dr. White (Feb 12, 2015)

Full Knowledge?

Hashirama reserves? (So basically sage mode Itachi  )

No eyesight damage?

Itachi snipes with Amaterasu at match start, fucking at least one of them (probably Jiraiya since he knows about Frog Song). Then he gets one in Tsukuyomi, cause at that point why not? His bushin game is good eough to get in their face and make eye contact seeing as he did it vs Kabuto (and amaterasu will be burning the area) . Tsukuyomi + Amaterasu GG's the second. He then uses Susano to track down the third which can do nothing too him because of Susano/ Ama for days. Hell Itachi can just make shadow clones with mini Susano, and have them clean up or just suicide via explosion.

Mid Diff at worst.

Hashirama chakra is such a compliment to natural sharingan users.


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## hbcaptain (Sep 16, 2016)

Itachi one shot, with Hashi chakra level he activates PS and kills the three sannin in one swing.


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## Sapherosth (Sep 16, 2016)

Perfect Susano comes to play and GG.


Either that, or Itachi camps in his "invincible" Susano all day and take his sweet time raping them one by one. 


Or...Itachi just uses shadow clones and have the clones fight them using Susano, 


Easy win to be honest.


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## Android (Sep 16, 2016)

hbcaptain said:


> Itachi one shot, with Hashi chakra level he activates PS and kills the three sannin in one swing.


So brought this shitty thread back to life again , just to satisfy something inside of you  
OT : Itachi gets buttraped .


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 16, 2016)

Itachi solos


Seriously though, Hashirama chakra and turbo eyes are unnecessary buffs.


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## Sapherosth (Sep 16, 2016)

Ispeau said:


> In my opinion, edo Itachi(he had infinite chakra) had to have won Naruto and Bee in a instant. He had to be considered more powerfull than original Madara. Just in theory, but in pratice...
> 
> After a I saw him in the return, I don't think he would solo the sannins.





There's a difference between unlimited chakra and a higher capacity and volume. 

Higher capacity gives you more room to do bigger, greater techniques, whereas unlimited chakra gives Itachi unlimited use of the same technique on the same scale as before.


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## Isaiah13000 (Sep 17, 2016)

Such ridiculous stipulations, any character who is granted Hashirama Senju's godly chakra reserves that are apparently beyond Naruto, Minato, and Yin-Yang Kurama's chakras even when combined on top of a pseudo-EMS will solo 99% of the Narutoverse. Come on, at least make it slightly realistic.


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## Arles Celes (Sep 17, 2016)

Hashirama level chakra?

Like in the sense he got an almost infinite chakra supply like when he was an edo OR in the sense that he can create a chakra construct the size of Shinsenju?

If the former then he will still lose though he might hold his own for a fair bit depending on how durable V4 Susanoo(and Yata) actually is. If the latter and he is allowed to perform feats way beyond his normal capacity then he clearly wins.


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