# Tsunade vs A4



## Shazam (Jul 27, 2020)

knowledge: Rep
IC
30 Meters

Tsunade is replacing Sasuke from FKS


----------



## Francyst (Jul 27, 2020)

Blitz

Reactions: Like 5


----------



## Lyren (Jul 27, 2020)

Tsunade lets him dig a hole in her chest, grabs his hand then punches him to red mist

Reactions: Lewd 1


----------



## Ludi (Jul 27, 2020)

I think A4 slices her head of with his speed.

If you believe she can regrow her head, she could win.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Lyren (Jul 27, 2020)

Ludi said:


> I think A4 slices her head of with his speed.
> 
> If you believe she can regrow her head, she could win.


A4 doesnt know about her regeneration because this scenario takes place in the FKS arc and he have only reputation knowlege which doesnt include Byakugo as no one outside of Jiraiya and Oro is aware of prior to the WA.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## ThirdRidoku (Jul 27, 2020)

Tsunade. A4's shunshin is mostly a linear attack, and by rep Tsunade knows he is the fastest ninja.

She turns this into a battle of attrition and eventually puts him down with her Susano'o cracking punches.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Goku Black (Jul 27, 2020)

Tsunade wins more times than not.

She waits until he attacks her so she could grab his arm and punch him. If B was able to knock A out of his RCM, Tsunade would turn him into red paste.


----------



## wooly Eullerex (Jul 27, 2020)

raikage would win the battle of attrition since he has the skill & speed to outclass her, while his stamina & strength are similar to hers.

but its more likely that he decapitates her after she heals from the slashes & bone crunching suplex.

the only way i see tsunade winning is if raikage only has 1 arm where hes at a grappling disadv. & her kicks are noteworthy too


----------



## Siskebabas (Jul 27, 2020)

Mr Killer said:


> Tsunade wins more times than not.
> 
> She waits until he attacks her so she could grab his arm and punch him. If B was able to knock A out of his RCM, Tsunade would turn him into red paste.


He easily counter acts her punches, diffrence in speed and reflexes as astronomical, she gets sent flying like jugo and kcm naruto was

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Ludi (Jul 27, 2020)

Lyren said:


> A4 doesnt know about her regeneration because this scenario takes place in the FKS arc and he have only reputation knowlege which doesnt include Byakugo as no one outside of Jiraiya and Oro is aware of prior to the WA.


At FKS he has 2 arms, nothing else really changes, I dont see why he wouldnt try to cut or to Lariat her head of, regardless of intel.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## J★J♥ (Jul 27, 2020)

A4 is not blitzing anyone here. Hecant even blitz Juugo or Suigetsu for the fucks sake.


----------



## ThirdRidoku (Jul 27, 2020)

wooly Eullerex said:


> raikage would win the battle of attrition since he has the skill & speed to outclass her, while his stamina & strength are similar to hers.





Siskebabas said:


> He easily counter acts her punches, diffrence in speed and reflexes as astronomical, she gets sent flying like jugo and kcm naruto was


He has no skill advantage. Neither of them are particularly skilled, their not masters of skill like Gai, they more so rely on stats. Tsunade didn't get decapitated by 5 rinnegan Madara clones who had knowledge on her regen. A4 isn't touching her head.

You're also overrating the speed. Shunshin is a linear attack, A4 went flying into walls at FKS against Obito and against KCM Naruto after missing his target. He lacks dexterity/agility, he hasn't shown the ability to repeatedly maintain max speed or go from zero to max instantly while blitzing in different directions like Lee did to Gaara in the 5th Gate.  THe isn't gonna be able to instantly dodge her counter punch if he gives his blitz his all It's good for one burst but the problem is Tsunade has knowledge of it and can read the attack and guard her head. 

Madara already stated that Tsunade is physically stronger. So she easily stops his momentum, especially if she places chakra at her feet like how she planned to counter Pain's ST,  and while he is off-balanced from the Collison she can get a counter punch in. Battle of attrition is on her side, as A4's injuries don't heal while at least Tsunade is healing, meanwhile he needs bijuu levels of chakra to maintain max speed, whereas Tsunade doesn't need that.


He also expected Tsunade to be of use in stopping KCM Naruto, so Raikage doesn't consider her slow either.

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## Lyren (Jul 27, 2020)

Ludi said:


> At FKS he has 2 arms, nothing else really changes, I dont see why he wouldnt try to cut or to Lariat her head of, regardless of intel.


Because A4 never approached a fight this way since the start, he will likely try to punch her with V1 at best, and Tsunade is definitely reacting to V1 from 30M distance by at least blocking his punch if it is aimed at her head. Once she catches him with superior force to his, ranshinsho or CES punches are gonna end this


----------



## Goku Black (Jul 27, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> He easily counter acts her punches, diffrence in speed and reflexes as astronomical, she gets sent flying like jugo and kcm naruto was


Ok, forget about punching. She rips his arm off his shoulder.


----------



## Shazam (Jul 27, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> He easily counter acts her punches, diffrence in speed and reflexes as astronomical, she gets sent flying like jugo and kcm naruto was



I won't debate A4 having the obvious speed advantage that will undoubtedly cause her the most issue. But i don't see A4 as a taijutsu expert like Gai nor a precog monster who has sharingan to intercept then counter attacks either. As for the debate im neutral


----------



## MaruUchiha (Jul 27, 2020)

A4 would probably go v2 from jump here like he did against Minato since this is a Hokage, and Tsunade gets blitzed from there. Instead of Gyuki's horn it'll be Tsunade's head this time

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 27, 2020)

MaruUchiha said:


> A4 would probably go v2 from jump here like he did against Minato *since this is a Hokage*



Bruh, what? Ay didn't even go V2 against KCM Naruto, FKS Sasuke (who he thought captured his brother with some help), or Madara at first. He likely only jumped into V2 against Minato because Minato was a speedster like him and thus his top speed would be needed.


----------



## MaruUchiha (Jul 27, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Bruh, what? Ay didn't even go V2 against KCM Naruto, FKS Sasuke (who he thought captured his brother with some help), or Madara at first.


None of them are Hokage.. What's your point?



Aegon Targaryen said:


> He likely only jumped into V2 against Minato because Minato was a speedster like him and thus his top speed would be needed.


Has nothing to do with what i said


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 27, 2020)

MaruUchiha said:


> None of them are Hokage.. What's your point?
> 
> 
> Has nothing to do with what i said



What does being Hokage have to do with anything?


----------



## MaruUchiha (Jul 27, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> What does being Hokage have to do with anything?


A MUCH more dangerous reputation? Someone you shouldn't hold back against at all?


----------



## Siskebabas (Jul 27, 2020)

ThirdRidoku said:


> He has no skill advantage. Neither of them are particularly skilled, their not masters of skill like Gai, they more so rely on stats. Tsunade didn't get decapitated by 5 rinnegan Madara clones who had knowledge on her regen. A4 isn't touching her head.
> 
> You're also overrating the speed. Shunshin is a linear attack, A4 went flying into walls at FKS against Obito and against KCM Naruto after missing his target. He lacks dexterity/agility, he hasn't shown the ability to repeatedly maintain max speed or go from zero to max instantly while blitzing in different directions like Lee did to Gaara in the 5th Gate.  THe isn't gonna be able to instantly dodge her counter punch if he gives his blitz his all It's good for one burst but the problem is Tsunade has knowledge of it and can read the attack and guard her head.
> 
> ...


What? A4 not being skilled in Cqc? Whats next, a4 being slow? Hes purely built for Cqc exchanges. You picked very specific Examples which tsunade can never replicate as she neither user of sharingan neither can she use kamui.
Shes not winning battle of atrittion, battle versus 5 susannos made it clear that she was sustaining more damage then she can handle while raikage was scratchless. While raikage doesnt move as flashy as Lee, doesnt mean he is not as agile, nothing supports that, he was able to counter kcm naruto flickers without any warnings, and those flickers were already considered flashes from killer Bee.
Furthermore he doesnt need his max speed, as it is overkill even for ms sharingar users, tsunade cant even handle v1.


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 27, 2020)

MaruUchiha said:


> A MUCH more dangerous reputation? Someone you shouldn't hold back against at all?



That's just headcanon, my friend. Minato was the guy *with a flee-on-sight order posted after him and the guy with a reputation of speed comparable or superior to Ay's own*, not Tsunade. Why on earth would Tsunade have a ''much more dangerous reputation'' than this guy,  the Kurama Jinchuriki who acquired a controlled form, Ay's own brother who befriended Gyuki, or the guy that kidnapped the latter? All of those people are on par with or above her in hype.


----------



## MaruUchiha (Jul 27, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> That's just headcanon, my friend. Minato was the guy *with a flee-on-sight order posted after him and the guy with a reputation of speed comparable or superior to Ay's own*, not Tsunade.


Why do you keep bringing Minato into this? What does this have to do with my point? A4 would lose if he tries engaging Tsunade in v1, and he would probably know that just going off her Hokage hype is my point. Notice A4 didn't use v2 against Sasuke until he saw MS, a *Kage level* threat


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 27, 2020)

MaruUchiha said:


> *Why do you keep bringing Minato into this? What does this have to do with my point?* A4 would lose if he tries engaging Tsunade in v1, and he would probably know that just going off her Hokage hype is my point. Notice A4 didn't use v2 against Sasuke until he saw MS, a *Kage level* threat



That's because Minato is the only person Ay started in V2 against. Ay would not start in V2 against Tsunade just because she's ''Hokage'' if he didn't use V2 against the guy who helped kidnap his brother (easily Kage level) or the guy who acquired Kurama's powers (without question Kage level). He only used V2 when he knew he needed it - e.g. to test KCM Naruto's full speed or dodge Amaterasu. You know, two things that have one thing in common - speed. Lots and lots of speed.

Also, Ay used V2 against Sasuke not because the Mangekyo was ''Kage level'' but because its attacks are *crazy fast*.


----------



## Siskebabas (Jul 27, 2020)

MaruUchiha said:


> Why do you keep bringing Minato into this? What does this have to do with my point? A4 would lose if he tries engaging Tsunade in v1, and he would probably know that just going off her Hokage hype is my point. Notice A4 didn't use v2 against Sasuke until he saw MS, a *Kage level* threat


Since when does he v2 to blitz tsunade when v2 was overkill for ms sasuke?


----------



## Prince Idonojie (Jul 27, 2020)

Tsunade seems like a terrible match up for him. He cannot conceivable kill her, especially in her strongest form, as she's a pseudo-immortal in battle so his only other option is to wear her out which is even more demanding a task because she's an expert counterstriker so the moment she's assaulted by his lightening fist, she'd respond with a strike of her own and just one of her powerful strikes will screw him up completely. It is a battle of attrition that A4 cannot win.


----------



## MaruUchiha (Jul 27, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> That's because Minato is the only person Ay started in V2 against. Ay would not start in V2 against Tsunade just because she's ''Hokage'' if he didn't use V2 against the guy who helped kidnap his brother (easily Kage level) or the guy who acquired Kurama's powers (without question Kage level). He only used V2 when he knew he needed it - e.g. to test KCM Naruto's full speed or dodge Amaterasu. You know, two things that have one thing in common - speed. Lots and lots of speed.
> 
> Also, Ay used V2 against Sasuke not because the Mangekyo was ''Kage level'' but because its attacks are *crazy fast*.


Agree to disagree then. I go with A4 going all out because he's facing a Hokage, you go with A4 losing in v1 before he even gets to use his full power. I find my breakdown more of a fair fight and not completely defeating the purpose of finding out who's stronger


Siskebabas said:


> Since when does he v2 to blitz tsunade when v2 was overkill for ms sasuke?


Is that why MS Sasuke was about to kill him if C and Gaara didn't save his life?

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


----------



## Siskebabas (Jul 27, 2020)

MaruUchiha said:


> Agree to disagree then. I go with A4 going all out because he's facing a Hokage, you go with A4 losing in v1 before he even gets to use his full power. I find my breakdown more of a fair fight and not completely defeating the purpose of finding out who's stronger
> 
> Is that why MS Sasuke was about to kill him if C and Gaara didn't save his life?


Thats completely irrelevant, point is if ms sasuke cant see shit, so neither is tsunade who is below ms sasuke.


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Jul 27, 2020)

Tsunade gets blitzed and will continue to get blitzed from now to the end of time

Bitch doesnt even have V1 level feats

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 27, 2020)

MaruUchiha said:


> Agree to disagree then. I go with A4 going all out because he's facing a Hokage, you go with A4 losing in v1 before he even gets to use his full power. I find my breakdown more of a fair fight and not completely defeating the purpose of finding out who's stronger



Being a Hokage isn't enough incentive for Ay to go all out when he didn't even do so against the likes of KCM Naruto or MS Sasuke (whom he in fact thought to have defeated and kidnapped Killer Bee - someone who's easily Kage level himself) lol. It's also implied Ay's V2 shroud takes a lot of chakra, so using it early on in a fight would be a bad move unless the opponent is explicitly OP.

Tsunade is stronger by portrayal, based on her superior performance against Madara overall.


----------



## Lyren (Jul 27, 2020)

A4 will use V2 right off the batt because Tsunade is Hokage


----------



## J★J♥ (Jul 27, 2020)

Lyren said:


> A4 will use V2 right off the batt because Tsunade is Hokage


What if he does ? He is brawler and prefers blunt damage. He can't do shit to Tsunade. Once he closes distance and lands first punch he will get his head punched off his shoulders.


----------



## Danisor (Jul 27, 2020)

Tsunade and Raikage eventually agree to go home and smash each other to death, GG.


----------



## Lyren (Jul 27, 2020)

J★J♥ said:


> What if he does ? He is brawler and prefers blunt damage. He can't do shit to Tsunade. Once he closes distance and lands first punch he will get his head punched off his shoulders.


The very idea of A4 starting with v2 is already dumb enough, he didn't do that against Bee's killer (sasuke).
 But even if he does yeah she will take advantage of him digging a hole on any part of her body by grabbing him then punching him to red mist


----------



## Veracity (Jul 27, 2020)

Tsunade in Sasuke’s exact situation? She would definitely block  and has a good chance of finishing the fight right at that moment. Assuming she doesn’t, she could use chakra to the feet to keep her rooted in place for when Ay inevitably . She grabs Ay after this and then punches him in the chest. Game over.


----------



## Siskebabas (Jul 27, 2020)

What is this chakra in the feet shit comes from, since when she is some kind of immovable object also shit with counter attack was replicated by juugo and we all know how it ended

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Veracity (Jul 27, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> What is this chakra in the feet shit comes from, since when she is some kind of immovable object also shit with counter attack was replicated by juugo and we all know how it ended



. She’s also already , so yes it would keep her in place and allow her to counter attack without getting ragdolled. 

That’s because Jugo  trying to take Ay out in one go. Simply grabbing Ay is much faster and requires less movement. The action is only feasible for Tsunade because she’s stronger than Ay and can hold him in place. It wouldn’t work with a physically weaker individual.


----------



## Ludi (Jul 27, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> What does being Hokage have to do with anything?


Hokages and arch rivals of the hokages are only like most of the top tiers, however in universe hokage is a title and archrival is knowlrdg


Veracity said:


> Tsunade in Sasuke’s exact situation? She would definitely block  and has a good chance of finishing the fight right at that moment. Assuming she doesn’t, she could use chakra to the feet to keep her rooted in place for when Ay inevitably . She grabs Ay after this and then punches him in the chest. Game over.


One of the more dangerous clicks of the day


----------



## Siskebabas (Jul 27, 2020)

Veracity said:


> . She’s also already , so yes it would keep her in place and allow her to counter attack without getting ragdolled.
> 
> That’s because Jugo  trying to take Ay out in one go. Simply grabbing Ay is much faster and requires less movement. The action is only feasible for Tsunade because she’s stronger than Ay and can hold him in place. It wouldn’t work with a physically weaker individual.


Jugo attack was just as big suprise, raikage dropped focus on him and he couldnt touch him with point blank attack. Also doesnt help either that dude in clad of raiton armor and can channel raiton stream plus he easily cut off his own arm, which has few tiers above in durability comparing to tsunade, so he can slash just as well as strike. 
Now here feats are given no limits falacy, she has zero feats to suggest that she can withstand attacks of raikages caliber.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## The Great One (Jul 27, 2020)

It's very hard to not make a porn joke here.


----------



## Veracity (Jul 27, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> Jugo attack was just as big suprise, raikage dropped focus on him and he couldnt touch him with point blank attack. Also doesnt help either that dude in clad of raiton armor and can channel raiton stream plus he easily cut off his own arm, which has few tiers above in durability comparing to tsunade, so he can slash just as well as strike.
> Now here feats are given no limits falacy, she has zero feats to suggest that she can withstand attacks of raikages caliber.



Bro I literally just showed you Jugo taking  charging up an attack that by his , was intended to wipe out the Raikage. That attack took far longer to charge up, was predictable as ever, and was at a farther distance than what Tsunade needs to travel to grab Raikage. 

Not denying that Raikage has the means to end Tsunade but his IC behavior of elbows and punches won’t get the job done. Yasaka Magamata which sent Tsunade into a giant crater didn’t even  and she was also able to fight with . Anything less than a Raiton chop decapitation isn’t putting Tsunade down. I don’t see that happening before Tsunade lands a counter strike.


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 27, 2020)

I like how people think decapitation will kill Tsunade even though bifurcation - something incredibly similar - didn't.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Lyren (Jul 27, 2020)

@Shazam Why the fuck is your opening post rated Optimistic ? You didn't even give your opinion on the outcome


----------



## Lyren (Jul 27, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> I like how people think decapitation will kill Tsunade even though bifurcation - something incredibly similar - didn't.


 Byakugo wasn't even actived when Madara cut her in half and yet she survived it just fine. 
Also when talking to Katsuyu, the slug clearly said that she is able to repair Tsunade body


----------



## Veracity (Jul 27, 2020)

Lyren said:


> @Shazam Why the fuck is your opening post rated Optimistic ? You didn't even give your opinion on the outcome



NBD really thinks that the Hokage vs the Raikage within the 4th Great Shinobi war is a mismatch lol. Not even Ay himself would agree


----------



## Draco Bolton (Jul 27, 2020)

Tsunade regenerate for eternity each time A4 kill her with ease.

But the more he kills, the faster Tsunade regenerates (one of the unsolved mysteries of Byakugo but don't worry, we working at that).

At some point the fight will reach such a level of intensity and speed that we won't see anything, it's going so fast (our eyes will be popping out of their orbits trying to track their movements) . 

V2 A4 will hit quickly, Tsunade will regenerate quickly.

And at some point Tsunade will regenerate faster than A4 speed.

It will be so fast, that she will even be regenerated from the hit of A4 even before he hit her. And the regeneration will take a billionth of a second. V2 A4 will no longer understand what's happening. He will probably become crazy.

Tsunade, one of the Great Three... win.


----------



## Speedyamell (Jul 27, 2020)

A4 gets clapped. Ignoring that tsunade was literally about to hand him his ass when he was being a nuisance to naruto and bee for a moment..

tsunade literally always outdid Ay in the same situation.. like _always_ 

Ay punches madara? Madara blocks. No noticeable damage. He needs onoki to be relevant from that point. 
Tsunade punches madara? Madara is pink mist. Literally needed to swap with a clone to escape being sealed. 

Ay vs madara's ribcage? Barely leaves a scratch. Tsunade? Cracks tf out of it on her first try with a punch _not even intended for susanoo_. Well she then proceeds to demolish it completely on her second attempt. Doing more damage than Ay and onoki combined. 

Ay vs mukubushin with V3 susanoo? Accomplishes nothing. Gets genjutsu gg'd the moment he let his guard down. 
Tsunade? Successfully disarmed several. Ragdolled them so hard that unlike with A4, they couldn't do anything even while she was kneeling on the floor spitting blood.

Vs madara's katon? Oops A4 is out of chakra already. Despite the fact that he had been coordinating with onoki and receiving treatment from tsunade all the while.
Tsunade? Ends up saving all five kage despite also being the one resuscitating them from the beginning. 

VS PS? Well tsunade got cut in half and her parts were separated with Mokuton but somehow she was still the one keeping A4 alive...

The raikage is no match for tsunade. Simple and short

Reactions: Winner 2


----------



## Lyren (Jul 27, 2020)

Speedyamell said:


> A4 gets clapped. Ignoring that tsunade was literally about to hand him his ass when he was being a nuisance to naruto and bee for a moment..
> 
> tsunade literally always outdid Ay in the same situation.. like _always_
> 
> ...


/thread


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 27, 2020)

Speedyamell said:


> A4 gets clapped. Ignoring that tsunade was literally about to hand him his ass when he was being a nuisance to naruto and bee for a moment..
> 
> tsunade literally always outdid Ay in the same situation.. like _always_
> 
> ...



Very good arguments. Tsunade > Ay all the way. Speed is all Ay has over her and speed isn't everything - he doesn't even move at his high speeds all the time, which is why Suigetsu and Darui can keep up with him at times.


----------



## Zero890 (Jul 27, 2020)

Katsuyu solos but Tsunade doesn't need her.


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 28, 2020)

Sufex said:


> You mean she required patching up and was completely out of the fight


. Also pay attention to the tree separating both halves of Tsunade, planted there to ensure both halves could not rejoin by Madara using Wood Style.

The Fourth Raikage has no such abilities to prevent Tsunade from regenerating (I doubt he'd ever even kill Katsuyu, in all honesty). Therefore, he cannot permanently kill Tsunade. Tsunade, however, can kill Raikage with a few hits at worst.


----------



## blk (Jul 28, 2020)

A4 blitzes and one shots. 

Stomp thread.


----------



## Siskebabas (Jul 28, 2020)

Speedyamell said:


> A4 gets clapped. Ignoring that tsunade was literally about to hand him his ass when he was being a nuisance to naruto and bee for a moment..
> 
> tsunade literally always outdid Ay in the same situation.. like _always_
> 
> ...


Thats some next level fan fiction 
Tsunade ouright did nothing againts susannos and was getting stomped unlike a4 who held his own without any scratch. 
Imagine madara needing to use clones to escape from tsunade 
And its not like tsunade got recharged by invisible ghost in the battle. 
And imagine saying tsunade was about to handle Bee and naruto


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 28, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> Thats some next level fan fiction
> Tsunade ouright did nothing againts susannos and was getting stomped unlike a4 who held his own without any scratch



Lmao. Tsunade actually knocked Madara's Susano'o clone to the ground, whereas Ay nearly got killed and had to be saved.



Siskebabas said:


> Imagine madara needing to use clones to escape from tsunade
> And its not like tsunade got recharged by invisible ghost in the battle



That was like way way later. What are you even talking about? Lmao.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Siskebabas (Jul 28, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Lmao. Tsunade actually knocked Madara's Susano'o clone to the ground, whereas Ay nearly got killed and had to be saved.
> 
> 
> 
> That was like way way later. What are you even talking about? Lmao.


Lol, another one 
Convienently ignoring why was a4 in the pinch in the first place, oh was it not tsunade who was getting slugish and could not sustain damage which is by the way is supported by feats and mentioned by raikage 
Knocked susanno which did nothing to them. Doesnt matter that it was later tsunade was recharged two times by Karin and dans ghost, try harder next time


----------



## Veracity (Jul 28, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> Lol, another one
> Convienently ignoring why was a4 in the pinch in the first place, oh was it not tsunade who was getting slugish and could not sustain damage which is by the way is supported by feats and mentioned by raikage
> Knocked susanno which did nothing to them. Doesnt matter that it was later tsunade was recharged two times by Karin and dans ghost, try harder next time



Yo this argument is so weak lmao. Ay being distracted by Tsunade is literally his own damn fault. It didn’t effect anyone else and it’s very clearly part of his character behavior. The man almost got killed because he put himself in that very situation and if he was as powerful as Tsunade he would have separated his clones enough to the point where they aren’t on his ass as soon as he turns his head. Tsunade had time to pull the sussano swords out her stomach and breath while Ay was pounced on as soon as he made the smallest mistake. 

The argument that Tsunade being stabbed means she did worse is also pretty bad considering regeneration *is literally part of her arsenal. *You don’t dock someone for using their abilities lol. I’m not gonna call Ay a bitch for using RnY to run away from attacks because clearly that’s a successful tactic viable via his abilities.

Reactions: Like 4


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 28, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> Lol, another one
> Convienently ignoring why was a4 in the pinch in the first place, oh was it not tsunade who was getting slugish and could not sustain damage which is by the way is supported by feats and mentioned by raikage



You made this part up. *Tsunade while ''sluggish'' defeated a Susano'o clone in CQC while Ay was still pinned under one*.



Siskebabas said:


> Knocked susanno which did nothing to them



Still better than A) being on the defensive against one and B) nearly being killed by them.



Siskebabas said:


> Doesnt matter that it was later tsunade was recharged two times by Karin and dans ghost



That was *after *the fight with the Susano'o clones, you troll.


Siskebabas said:


> try harder next time



Take your own advice, friend...



Veracity said:


> Yo this argument is so weak lmao. Ay being distracted by Tsunade is literally his own damn fault. It didn’t effect anyone else and it’s very clearly part of his character behavior. The man almost got killed because he put himself in that very situation and if he was as powerful as Tsunade he would have separated his clones enough to the point where they aren’t on his ass as soon as he turns his head. Tsunade had time to pull the sussano swords out her stomach and breath while Ay was pounced on as soon as he made the smallest mistake.
> 
> The argument that Tsunade being stabbed means she did worse is also pretty bad considering regeneration *is literally part of her arsenal. *You don’t dock someone for using their abilities lol. I’m not gonna call Ay a bitch for using RnY to run away from attacks because clearly that’s a successful tactic viable via his abilities.



Exactly.


----------



## Siskebabas (Jul 28, 2020)

Veracity said:


> Yo this argument is so weak lmao. Ay being distracted by Tsunade is literally his own damn fault. It didn’t effect anyone else and it’s very clearly part of his character behavior. The man almost got killed because he put himself in that very situation and if he was as powerful as Tsunade he would have separated his clones enough to the point where they aren’t on his ass as soon as he turns his head. Tsunade had time to pull the sussano swords out her stomach and breath while Ay was pounced on as soon as he made the smallest mistake.
> 
> The argument that Tsunade being stabbed means she did worse is also pretty bad considering regeneration *is literally part of her arsenal. *You don’t dock someone for using their abilities lol. I’m not gonna call Ay a bitch for using RnY to run away from attacks because clearly that’s a successful tactic viable via his abilities.


Was falling on her knees due to sustained damage and couldnt no longer fight back is part of her arsenal? 
That was tsunade who was fighting recklessly and overestimated healing which a4 warned her about before she succumbed and distracted a4 who was a teammate and worried about her, good luck convincing someone that it was his fault.
Yeah ofcourse why didnt all powerful tsunade separated those very se susannos and helped gaara and mei, og wait everyone was handsfull with their own fights, Nice try though


----------



## Siskebabas (Jul 28, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> You made this part up. *Tsunade while ''sluggish'' defeated a Susano'o clone in CQC while Ay was still pinned under one*.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're talking out of your ass, no clone was defeated, they were all colectivelly wiped put by super jinton.
It was not better go reread the damn fight, she overestimated herself which got her to her knees due sustained damage which a4 himself warned her about it, both of you rehash same shit, which havent happened in the manga


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 28, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> You're talking out of your ass, no clone was defeated



Lie. Tsunade knocked a Susano'o clone down to the ground while Ay was still struggling with one.



Cryorex said:


> It was not better go reread the damn fight, she overestimated herself which got her to her knees due sustained damage which a4 himself warned her about it, both of you rehash same shit, which havent happened in the manga



None of this is even true lmao. Ay is the one who overestimated himself, he's the one who would've gotten killed.


----------



## Siskebabas (Jul 28, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Lie. Tsunade knocked a Susano'o clone down to the ground while Ay was still struggling with one.
> 
> 
> 
> None of this is even true lmao. Ay is the one who overestimated himself, he's the one who would've gotten killed.


Few sentences and so much bullshit, not Worth responding to this shit


----------



## Siskebabas (Jul 28, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Concession accepted, troll.


Fanfiction.net go grab some more ideas


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 28, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> Fanfiction.net go grab some more ideas



Imagine calling Naruto fan fiction.


----------



## Speedyamell (Jul 28, 2020)

Why is this thread still on?? I literally already solo'd..

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Lyren (Jul 28, 2020)

Speedyamell said:


> Why is this thread still on?? I literally already solo'd..


The only one whose defending A4 is clearly denying what happened in the manga so you technically solo'd no matter how much rubbish he said after that


----------



## blk (Jul 28, 2020)

The amount of headcanon from Tsunade stans is staggering.

Most overrated character by some margin for quite a long time at this point.


----------



## Speedyamell (Jul 28, 2020)

blk said:


> The amount of headcanon from Tsunade stans is staggering.
> 
> Most overrated character by some margin for quite a long time at this point.


Then why don't you just point out the "headcanon" instead of making useless accusations?? Where is the lie?


----------



## Francyst (Jul 28, 2020)

Speedyamell said:


> Why is this thread still on?? I literally already solo'd..


Your entire post can be shortened to "Tsunade punches harder than A"

Thread solo'd and ended ShazG's career in the process! Speedy Banzai!

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Siskebabas (Jul 28, 2020)

Two dupes combine negging me

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 28, 2020)

Francyst said:


> Your entire post can be shortened to "Tsunade punches harder than A"



Yeah, pretty sure @Speedyamell said a lot more than that. 



blk said:


> The amount of headcanon from Tsunade stans is staggering.
> 
> Most overrated character by some margin for quite a long time at this point.



Imagine calling the manga headcanon lmao. All Speedy and I've done is point out what the manga has already demonstrated.

Also, imagine calling Tsunade the most overrated character when there are people literally discounting her feats against Orochimaru and Madara as well as people insisting Itachi can beat Galactus and Goku, Kisame can beat Pain, Madara > Hashirama at VoTE, etc.

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## blk (Jul 28, 2020)

Speedyamell said:


> Then why don't you just point out the "headcanon" instead of making useless accusations?? Where is the lie?



The lie, or bad argument, is the idea that Tsunade competing with (already a stretch considering she had two giant swords on her torso) Susanoo clones = she can compete with A4.

Also she didn't outperform A4 vs the clones, that's pure headcanon. A4 was caught precisely because Tsunade was getting sloppy and he stopped for a second because he was worried about her.
So It's literally the opposite.

Apart from this, i think that comparing them by their performance vs the clones is irrelevant.

What matters is how they match up with one another.

And by that metric, A4 is too fast for Tsunade to mentally perceive his movements let alone physically move a finger to counter attack him.

He simply Shunshin through her and chops her body/head and calls it a day. It's a no diff win.


----------



## Francyst (Jul 28, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Yeah, pretty sure @Speedyamell said a lot more than that.


Yeah, he did. Literally.


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 28, 2020)

Francyst said:


> Yeah, he did. Literally.



No, he didn't. Read what he actually said.


----------



## Francyst (Jul 28, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> No, he didn't.


That's what I said


----------



## Speedyamell (Jul 28, 2020)

blk said:


> The lie, or bad argument, is the idea that Tsunade competing with (already a stretch considering she had two giant swords on her torso) Susanoo clones = she can compete with A4.


Lmao. What me and some others were saying was that tsunade did better against the susanoo clad clones than Ay. So again where is the lie? Using injuries as a method of scaling the performance of _a character with *regeneration*_ abilities is literally the only bad argument here


blk said:


> Also she didn't outperform A4 vs the clones, that's pure headcanon. A4 was caught precisely because Tsunade was getting sloppy and he stopped for a second because he was worried about her.
> So It's literally the opposite.


Lmao. So the bottom line is that both tsunade and Ay were sloppy right? So then what happened? Ay was sloppy and immediately got taken down as a result. Tsunade was sloppy and the same thing didn't happen. What does that tell you?
With common sense it tells you that she dealt with here set of madara's to a degree that they couldn't take advantage of her letting her guard down like with Ay right?


blk said:


> Apart from this, i think that comparing them by their performance vs the clones is irrelevant.


No it is not irrelevant and that is a trash claim. I also compared tsunade and Ay in ALL their shared performances and not just that one.. There's 0 logic behind outperforming someone > you several times in the same situations.. literally none


blk said:


> What matters is how they match up with one another.


So basically ignore on panel showings in the same situation in favour of fanfic? Yeah gotcha

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## blk (Jul 28, 2020)

@Speedyamell

It's mostly irrelevant how and why they performed, as a team, against someone with vastly different arsenal than themselves.

For example, Tsunade's regen + super strength works pretty good against characters not significantly faster than her that fight in cqc.
So Susanoo clones are a good match up for her overall, or at the very least don't have any strong counter.

On the other hand A4 is wayyy too fast for her and can cut / bust her body very easily. So he is not a good match up for her.
 Regardless of who you would put above in a tier list, match ups matter.

MS Sasuke and Minato were incapable of physically moving even a finger vs A4's Shunshin and they are faster and much more mentally reactive than Tsunade. In fact they could survive only thanks to defensive Jutsus that require only mental activation.

Tsunade has neither the reactions of those two nor a strong defensive ability that can be mentally activated.

Therefore she has no way to successfully defend from a Shunshin attack. That's all there is to it and no indirect comparison via a misinterpreted team fight can change that.


----------



## Abyssdarkfire (Jul 28, 2020)

Not gonna lie I came into this thread with an A4 bias and was leaning heavily in the he blitzs her camp, but the points brought up by @Speedyamell l @Aegon Targaryen  , @Veracity , @Lyren have changed my mind about this fight.

Reactions: Like 7


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 28, 2020)

Abyssdarkfire said:


> Not gonna lie I came into this thread with an A4 bias and was leaning heavily in the he blitzs her camp, but the points brought up by @Speedyamell l @Aegon Targaryen  , @Veracity , @Lyren have changed my mind about this fight.



Thank you for having the humility and intellectual honesty to change your opinion when presented with new information.


----------



## Speedyamell (Jul 28, 2020)

blk said:


> It's mostly irrelevant how and why they performed, as a team, against someone with vastly different arsenal than themselves.


It is not irrelevant. If it was just one scenario then you could maybe argue it was due matchup or whatever,
But I listed _several_ scenarios where tsunade outdid A4. Meaning that what we have is tsunade not just topping Ay one time, but _consistently_ outperforming him.. effectively cementing her as the superior shinobi.


blk said:


> For example, Tsunade's regen + super strength works pretty good against characters not significantly faster than her that fight in cqc.
> So Susanoo clones are a good match up for her overall, or at the very least don't have any strong counter.


That is irrelevant especially when you realise how similar Ay and tsunade are.. they both rely on tanking ability and heavy hits. And tsunade did better in all those mentioned scenarios meaning she is simply the better fighter of the two


blk said:


> On the other hand A4 is wayyy too fast for her and can cut / bust her body very easily. So he is not a good match up for her.
> Regardless of who you would put above in a tier list, match ups matter.


Tsunade consistently outperforming Ay is fact.
Ay being "way too fast for her" is not. And there's isn't any definitive proof of that


blk said:


> MS Sasuke and Minato were incapable of physically moving even a finger vs A4's Shunshin and they are faster and much more mentally reactive than Tsunade. In fact they could survive only thanks to defensive Jutsus that require only mental activation.


I'm pretty sure I corrected you on this already but this is just a wrong assertion.
Sasuke didn't need to "physically move" he literally had susanoo up and was still able to activate enton before Ay could do anything.
Minato on the other hand did indeed physically react to minato as he flicked a kunai past Ay as he charged at him.


blk said:


> Tsunade has neither the reactions of those two nor a strong defensive ability that can be mentally activated.


Yeah let's just ignore the _*mentally activated*_ automatic regeneration she has real quick..


blk said:


> Therefore she has no way to successfully defend from a Shunshin attack. That's all there is to it and no indirect comparison via a misinterpreted team fight can change that.


Yes there is. He attacks with his usual fastest punch, tsunade tanks, and then she retaliates with far superior power.

First you called people liars and then couldn't point out the lies when asked to do so.
Now you're calling it a misinterpreted team fight.. can you please point out these "misinterpreted aspects"? Cuz it seems you're just making up excuses at this point

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Lyren (Jul 28, 2020)

@Speedyamell what do you think of my sig ?


----------



## Speedyamell (Jul 28, 2020)

Lyren said:


> @Speedyamell what do you think of my sig ?


----------



## Leaf Hurricane (Jul 28, 2020)

A4 lobs her head off. 
Gtfo with Tsunade knowing that A4 is fast and so would react. The only thing she accomplishes by knowing he is fast is being blitzed with knowledge.


----------



## blk (Jul 28, 2020)

Speedyamell said:


> That is irrelevant especially when you realise how similar Ay and tsunade are.. they both rely on tanking ability and heavy hits. And tsunade did better in all those mentioned scenarios meaning she is simply the better fighter of the two



A4 is tanky but he doesn't rely on it, he relies on speed primarily.
Which Tsunade is ill equipped to deal with.



> Tsunade consistently outperforming Ay is fact.
> Ay being "way too fast for her" is not. And there's isn't any definitive proof of that



Is this a joke? Neither Minato nor Sasuke could contend with A4's speed without resorting to mentally activated abilities and they are much better than Tsunade in both physical speed and mental reactions.

How can you say that A4 isn't too fast for Tsunade to physically react when faster and more reactive characters couldn't do it?



> I'm pretty sure I corrected you on this already but this is just a wrong assertion.
> Sasuke didn't need to "physically move" he literally had susanoo up and was still able to activate enton before Ay could do anything.
> Minato on the other hand did indeed physically react to minato as he flicked a kunai past Ay as he charged at him.



Sasuke activated Enton precisely because he had no other way to defend himself, since he wasn't able to physically move while A4 was using Shunshin.

Same for Minato.

Also the flicked Kunai was an anime addition. Still shows that freaking _Minato _can barely move his fingers/hand while at the same time A4 can Shunshin 5 to 10 meters and be an inch from blowing his head off.

For Tsunade it would be the same except she doesn't have FTG/Susanoo to save her ass. So she will get hit.



> Yeah let's just ignore the _*mentally activated*_ automatic regeneration she has real quick..
> 
> Yes there is. He attacks with his usual fastest punch, tsunade tanks, and then she retaliates with far superior power.



She cannot retaliate because she would either be one shotted or blown away by the punch. It's not like she'll stay in place lol.

After A4 sees that a punch isn't enough (although i believe it is, since it was stated that his V2 punch could one shot KCM Naruto), he will go for a chop which is 100% able to bisect her.
After bisection it's GG ofc (even if she can stay temporarily alive she can't defend herself from getting her head stomped).


----------



## Veracity (Jul 28, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> Was falling on her knees due to sustained damage and couldnt no longer fight back is part of her arsenal?
> That was tsunade who was fighting recklessly and overestimated healing which a4 warned her about before she succumbed and distracted a4 who was a teammate and worried about her, good luck convincing someone that it was his fault.
> Yeah ofcourse why didnt all powerful tsunade separated those very se susannos and helped gaara and mei, og wait everyone was handsfull with their own fights, Nice try though



Tsunade could continue fighting, she just stopped to catch a breather and to pull the swords out of her body. If she was truly overwhelmed, those Sussano clones would have have pounced on her and ended her the same way they did to Ay. So in all honesty, it would was Ay who needed to be saved not Tsunade who didn’t need Ay to give a very rhetorical and useless statement during a battle. Ay fucking himself over via character   behavior has happened numerous times, it’s a part of him.

Ay being injured is literally his own fault. Thats what was shown in the manga. He didn’t give Tsunade any assistance what’s so ever, all he did was show concern which has happened numerous times in the manga without the character being gangbanged as a result.

She separated the clones *enough* to catch her breath, she didn’t defeat them. Regardless, that performance is > to Ay and that’s Tsunade after using chakra to heal the others and without Katsuyu.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 28, 2020)

Veracity said:


> Tsunade could continue fighting, she just stopped to catch a breather and to pull the swords out of her body. If she was truly overwhelmed, those Sussano clones would have have pounced on her and ended her the same way they did to Ay. So in all honesty, it would was Ay who needed to be saved not Tsunade who didn’t even need Ay to give a very rhetorical and useless statement during a battle. Ay fucking himself over character   behavior has happened numerous times, it’s a part of him.
> 
> Ay being injured is literally his own fault. Thats what was shown in the manga. He didn’t give Tsunade any assistance what’s so ever, all he did was show concern which has happened numerous times in the manga without the character being gangbanged as a result.
> 
> She separated the clones *enough* to catch her breath, she didn’t defeat them. Regardless, that performance is > to Ay and that’s Tsunade after using chakra to heal the others and without Katsuyu.



Well said.



blk said:


> A4 is tanky but he doesn't rely on it, he relies on speed primarily.
> Which Tsunade is ill equipped to deal with



But both are CQC fighters, and Tsunade > Ay as far as CQC goes.




blk said:


> Is this a joke? Neither Minato nor Sasuke could contend with A4's speed without resorting to mentally activated abilities and they are much better than Tsunade in both physical speed and mental reactions



If only Ay used his full speed all the time. If only. It's not like Suigetsu and Juugo didn't react to him.



blk said:


> She cannot retaliate because she would either be one shotted or blown away by the punch. It's not like she'll stay in place lol.
> 
> After A4 sees that a punch isn't enough (although i believe it is, since it was stated that his V2 punch could one shot KCM Naruto), he will go for a chop which is 100% able to bisect her.
> After bisection it's GG ofc (even if she can stay temporarily alive she can't defend herself from getting her head stomped).



Ah, yes, totally ignore that Tsunade DID stay ''temporarily alive'' and Katsuyu said she could've helped Tsunade.


----------



## Speedyamell (Jul 29, 2020)

blk said:


> A4 is tanky but he doesn't rely on it, he relies on speed primarily.
> Which Tsunade is ill equipped to deal with.


The point is that both Ay and tsunade are similar fighters. His speed still falls under heavy hits since that is what he needs to land the hits in the first place. They being similar in terms of arsenal and tsunade outgoing him several times in the same situations simply means tsunade > Ay


blk said:


> Sasuke activated Enton precisely because he had no other way to defend himself, since he wasn't able to physically move while A4 was using Shunshin.


Again you are making no sense. Sasuke was already *in* susanoo lmao. How are we supposed to know if he can physically react or not?
You expect him to turn off susanoo and instead try to physically defend? Like??
Sasuke obviously cannot travel as fast as Ay but him using susanoo or enton to defend is not proof that he cannot physically move at all. There's no logic in assuming he would try to physically block, unlike with tsunade who actually has the ability to not only physically take the hit, but can also retaliate and overwhelm Ay. you're comparing apples and oranges at this point


blk said:


> Also the flicked Kunai was an anime addition. Still shows that freaking _Minato _can barely move his fingers/hand while at the same time A4 can Shunshin 5 to 10 meters and be an inch from blowing his head off.


I'm pretty sure it happened in the manga too as that's literally the kunai he used to teleport to Ay's back.

And again you're making no sense. If minato can toss a kunai while Ay travels, he can react. Him using ftg has nothing to do with that as again unlike tsunade, he cannot hope to physically compete with Ay so ofcourse he wouldn't try doing anything physically instead of ftg


blk said:


> She cannot retaliate because she would either be one shotted or blown away by the punch. It's not like she'll stay in place lol.


Lol at her being one shotted. You clearly haven't been paying attention.
Ofcourse she can retaliate. Ay literally relies on putting his all into his shunshin and cannot stop himself midway. We see when he punched juugo he went with him until a wall stopped his motion. Same with the other times he attempted his punches. If he does that with tsunade, she would just ignore his attack and retaliate while he's vulnerable then. Either by grabbing and then punching or straight up punching him away


----------



## t0xeus (Jul 29, 2020)

Ei4 will be blitzing here IMO.

Even if she could regen back, she can never land a hit.

Ei4 got this.


----------



## MHA massive fan (Jul 29, 2020)

If she got boro level of healing which I think she does
She takes it


----------



## Hi no Ishi (Jul 29, 2020)

A4 would beat her if he use his full speed all the time but he doesn't so he probably loses. 

Fighting level wise the two are pretty even. Tsunade is better in a group though so I rank her higher though.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## blk (Jul 30, 2020)

Speedyamell said:


> The point is that both Ay and tsunade are similar fighters. His speed still falls under heavy hits since that is what he needs to land the hits in the first place. They being similar in terms of arsenal and tsunade outgoing him several times in the same situations simply means tsunade > Ay



Yes they both fight by hitting hard.

But his speed hard counters Tsunade, that's what you are missing.

Which is something that neither Madara nor the clones had, that's why performance against them doesn't tell us much about this fight.



> Again you are making no sense. Sasuke was already *in* susanoo lmao. How are we supposed to know if he can physically react or not?
> You expect him to turn off susanoo and instead try to physically defend? Like??
> Sasuke obviously cannot travel as fast as Ay but him using susanoo or enton to defend is not proof that he cannot physically move at all. There's no logic in assuming he would try to physically block, unlike with tsunade who actually has the ability to not only physically take the hit, but can also retaliate and overwhelm Ay. you're comparing apples and oranges at this point



Because he literally couldn't visually track A4 before he stopped Shunshin behind him. That's how Amaterasu was insta dodged in the first place too.

If someone is so fast you can't visually track them, then sure as hell you can't physically keep up with them.



> I'm pretty sure it happened in the manga too as that's literally the kunai he used to teleport to Ay's back.
> 
> And again you're making no sense. If minato can toss a kunai while Ay travels, he can react. Him using ftg has nothing to do with that as again unlike tsunade, he cannot hope to physically compete with Ay so ofcourse he wouldn't try doing anything physically instead of ftg



Even if we agree that that happened in the manga too, he still _barely _reacted. Again, A4 traveled several meters and was super close to punch him in the face, while Minato could only do that hand trick.
Obviously highlights a massive difference in physical speed.

If he could have dodged him normally, he would have done so and tagged him or slashed him. Kinda how Sasuke evaded V1 A4's elbow and counter attacked with Chidori.




> Lol at her being one shotted. You clearly haven't been paying attention.
> Ofcourse she can retaliate. Ay literally relies on putting his all into his shunshin and cannot stop himself midway. We see when he punched juugo he went with him until a wall stopped his motion. Same with the other times he attempted his punches. If he does that with tsunade, she would just ignore his attack and retaliate while he's vulnerable then. Either by grabbing and then punching or straight up punching him away



It was stated a V2 punch could one shot KCM Naruto, Tsunade is less durable than him. Why shouldn't she get one shotted too? If the punch blows her brain out she would insta die.

A4 can stop while using Shunshin as shown when he stopped before chopping Sasuke's Susanoo. So no he won't go forward, together with Tsunade's body, after she gets punched and blown several meters away.
This doesn't even make sense from a physics standpoint since the opposite force from the punch, going to A4, would slow him down or even stop him completely.

If Tsunade survives to a V2 punch, A4 will then proceed to chop her in half with another Shunshin.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Speedyamell (Jul 30, 2020)

blk said:


> Yes they both fight by hitting hard.
> 
> But his speed hard counters Tsunade, that's what you are missing.
> 
> Which is something that neither Madara nor the clones had, that's why performance against them doesn't tell us much about this fight.


It doesn't matter. If his speed was that much of an advantage, he would have done better period.
Both of their speeds were also enough to allow them both to tag madara at various points so it really doesn't matter as much as you're making it out to be..


blk said:


> Because he literally couldn't visually track A4 before he stopped Shunshin behind him.


What the hell are you talking about? Lol.. sasuke isn't a sensor. He countered A4 with enton because he *could* react


blk said:


> If someone is so fast you can't visually track them, then sure as hell you can't physically keep up with them.


Sasuke never tried to do so and him using enton susanoo instead isn't proof of your argument



blk said:


> Even if we agree that that happened in the manga too, he still _barely _reacted.


Irrelevant. He reacted enough to do what he wanted to do. Every thing that happened did so according to his plan


blk said:


> If he could have dodged him normally, he would have done so and tagged him or slashed him. Kinda how Sasuke evaded V1 A4's elbow and counter attacked with Chidori.


He literally chucked his kunai faster than A4 could travel.. if he wanted to do a frontal attack he could have. But clearly he had a better plan


blk said:


> It was stated a V2 punch could one shot KCM Naruto, Tsunade is less durable than him. Why shouldn't she get one shotted too? If the punch blows her brain out she would insta die.


 what a joke.
There are a lot of things that would kill naruto that would not kill tsunade so your argument makes no sense.


blk said:


> A4 can stop while using Shunshin as shown when he stopped before chopping Sasuke's Susanoo. So no he won't go forward, together with Tsunade's body, after she gets punched and blown several meters away.





blk said:


> This doesn't even make sense from a physics standpoint since the opposite force from the punch, going to A4, would slow him down or even stop him completely.


What physics are you talking about.. we are discussing a manga here.
And in the manga, we've seen A4 follow the trajectory of his punch several times.
it's why juugo almost blew him up after his punch, and is why he ran into a rock after naruto dodged.
And with how much stronger tsunade is, she would have no issues bracing herself and creating the opportunity for punching him anyway or grabbing him and breaking him in two


----------



## ThirdRidoku (Jul 30, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> What? A4 not being skilled in Cqc? Whats next, a4 being slow? Hes purely built for Cqc exchanges. You picked very specific Examples which tsunade can never replicate as she neither user of sharingan neither can she use kamui.
> Shes not winning battle of atrittion, battle versus 5 susannos made it clear that she was sustaining more damage then she can handle while raikage was scratchless. While raikage doesnt move as flashy as Lee, doesnt mean he is not as agile, nothing supports that, he was able to counter kcm naruto flickers without any warnings, and those flickers were already considered flashes from killer Bee.
> Furthermore he doesnt need his max speed, as it is overkill even for ms sharingar users, tsunade cant even handle v1.



He isn't skilled dude. Gai is known for skill, not A4. A4 is only known as a speedster, not taijutsu master. I'm not saying he literally has no skill at all, but it isn't his defining attribute. And tsunade isn't known for skill either. So skill isn't deciding this matchup.

A4 isn't agile at all. When he fought Minato, he couldn't move himself out of the way  of Minato's first attack in time, Base Bee had to save him with a tentacle, which is why he thanked Bee.  He isn't agile. There is a difference between being agile and being fast. Agility is about acceleration and deceleration and being able to change directions quickly, speed is just what your max speed is , not how fast you can change it. A4 has good acceleration in moving from 0 to max,  but not good deceleration, or direction changing.


All the flickers he used against KCM  Naruto, were completely linear bursts. Nowhere did he show Rock Lee's dexterity.


Uh no, Suigetsu and Juugo reacted to V1 A4. He needs V2, period. Tsunade was doing just fine against the 5 susano'o clones. She was fighting with two swords in her vitals, and only momentarily coughed up blood, which she later recovered. She had plenty of chakra, as she gave ohnoki a mega jinton boost shortly after. She was doing just fine.




blk said:


> It was stated a V2 punch could one shot KCM Naruto, Tsunade is less durable than him. Why shouldn't she get one shotted too? If the punch blows her brain out she would insta die.




Dude... You do realize that Byakugao Tsunade needs to be comparable in durability to her own punches in order to hit something as durable as susano'o without the Newton Third law counter-force shattering her arm, like what happened to Kimimaro's bone spear against the shield of Shukaku in P1, or like how Danzo's kunai strike broke on Susano'o?   She is less durable than A4,  but at best she only took internal damage from her fist colliding with Susano'o, and her healing factor makes it irrelevant. 


She also tanked Madara's matagma which could pierce through Ohnoki's and Gaara's combined shield.

Nothing suggests she is as frail as you're claiming. In order to crack Susano'o without visible external damage, or any sign of pain, she must be comparable in durability to it period.  And that Same Susano'o she cracked was only barely cracking from Base Naruto's Cho Odama Rasengan A4's chops can pierce her but it doesn't matter.
The Same A4 did no damage whatsoever to Susano'o. And even in Base, Tsunade only had minor injuries from the light speed travel. Y

And nothing suggests A4 is much faster than 5 Susano'o clones, 5 targets who have a long reach thanks to the length of their Susano'o blades and arms. The same clones managed to tag him as well.





blk said:


> A4 can stop while using Shunshin as shown when he stopped before chopping Sasuke's Susanoo. So no he won't go forward, together with Tsunade's body, after she gets punched and blown several meters away.



Uh no, what doesn't make sense from a physics standpoint is A4 knocking back a broad who is STRONGER than him several meters dude, lol.

And you're assuming that A4 was going at his max speed there. We saw multiple times when he is going at max speed has a hard time changing direction. He also had to run in a circle in order to get into Sasuke's blindspot, and running in a circle requires less speed than running in a straight line.

Shunshin specializes in taking the initiative but its one linear move where he is giving it his all, he lacks dexterity at max speed. He won';t make Tsuande move from his strike and in the moment of deceleration Tsunade has time to hit him back.  Again, A4 doesn't have combo blitzing skills like Rock Lee and Gai do, his running speed is only impressive over mid to long distances, because he lacks the dexterity to abuse it in CQC.

Tsunade counter punches him, while A4 does damage with his chops. Tsunade has less chakra but she still has a lot and she is consuming stamina only for punches and healing, while A4's larger pools are being drained faster since he needs bijuu chakra levels to maintain max body flicker plus his injuries also trim away at his physical energy and fighting ability.


----------



## ATastyMuffin (Jul 30, 2020)

ThirdRidoku said:


> Dude... You do realize that Byakugao Tsunade needs to be comparable in durability to her own punches in order to hit something as durable as susano'o without the Newton Third law counter-force shattering her arm, like what happened to Kimimaro's bone spear against the shield of Shukaku in P1, or like how Danzo's kunai strike broke on Susano'o?   She is less durable than A4,  but at best she only took internal damage from her fist colliding with Susano'o, and her healing factor makes it irrelevant.



That's not how it works 

It would apply if Tsunade's strength feats derived from raw strength, but they don't. CES is gathering chakra at the point of contact and releasing it in a single instant

Because of that, Tsunade doesn't need to be as durable as her own punches, as demonstrated when she was explicitly << base A4 in durability yet cracked wide open Madara's Susano'o, which neg-diff tanked a Raigyaku Suihei that A4's arm couldn't 



> She also tanked Madara's matagma which could pierce through Ohnoki's and Gaara's combined shield.



Madara launched like 12 at their defense

He used only three against Tsunade, who regenerated from the damage

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## blk (Jul 30, 2020)

ThirdRidoku said:


> Dude... You do realize that Byakugao Tsunade needs to be comparable in durability to her own punches in order to hit something as durable as susano'o without the Newton Third law counter-force shattering her arm, like what happened to Kimimaro's bone spear against the shield of Shukaku in P1, or like how Danzo's kunai strike broke on Susano'o? She is less durable than A4, but at best she only took internal damage from her fist colliding with Susano'o, and her healing factor makes it irrelevant.



As @ATastyMuffin pointed out, that's not Tsunade actual raw strength.

A4, after stopping his V2 Shunshin, busted through Ribcage Susanoo. This means that a V2 punch that actually takes advantage of the insane acceleration will have a ton more force behind it.
Tsunade will take heavy damage from that if not die directly.

Since her durability, going from her punches, is at max at the level of 'Susanoo cracks' (while A4's durability is stated to be greater, without even RnY iirc, so he could accelerate enough to generate the needed force to one shot her).

But as i said i'm open to the possibility that she'll surive a V2 punch.
However after that, he will simply see that the punch wasn't enough and while Tsunade regroups from being blown back several meters (and regenerates the heavy damage), he will charge again with a V2 chop.

A4's chop have cut clean Gyuki's huge hard-bone horn that resisted even TBBs. So there is no way Tsunade's body won't be bisected by it.



ThirdRidoku said:


> Uh no, what doesn't make sense from a physics standpoint is A4 knocking back a broad who is STRONGER than him several meters dude, lol.



Tsunade will be stationary when A4 punches her in the face, there will be no significant opposing force that he has to overcome to blow her away.
Because A4 is so much faster that she won't be able to move a muscle.


----------



## Speedyamell (Jul 30, 2020)

ATastyMuffin said:


> That's not how it works
> 
> It would apply if Tsunade's strength feats derived from raw strength, but they don't. CES is gathering chakra at the point of contact and releasing it in a single instant


That's not how CES works.. and even if it was, it would only support TR's argument even further.
Because tsunade's fists/legs would still have to be durable enough to tank the explosion at the point of the "release of chakra" strong enough to destroy susanoo for example..


ATastyMuffin said:


> Madara launched like 12 at their defense
> 
> He used only three against Tsunade, who regenerated from the damage


Magatama are basically just several launched susanoo beads.. they don't necessarily impact the same point and a few of them could put holes in gaara and onoki's defense


----------



## ATastyMuffin (Jul 30, 2020)

Speedyamell said:


> That's not how CES works.. and even if it was, it would only support TR's argument even further.
> Because tsunade's fists/legs would still have to be durable enough to tank the explosion at the point of the "release of chakra" strong enough to destroy susanoo for example..



That's like saying Naruto has to be able to tank his own Rasengan for him to release it

Which blatantly isn't true



> Magatama are basically just several launched susanoo beads.. they don't necessarily impact the same point and a few of them could put holes in gaara and onoki's defense



But multiple weakens the overall integrity of their defense, otherwise what the fuck is the point of throwing multiple in the first place lmao


----------



## Hi no Ishi (Jul 30, 2020)

blk said:


> Yes they both fight by hitting hard.
> 
> But his speed hard counters Tsunade, that's what you are missing.
> 
> Which is something that neither Madara nor the clones had, that's why performance against them doesn't tell us much about this fight.


Susano'o is known for being super fast and strong actually. Which is the problem she has to deal with here too.


blk said:


> Because he literally couldn't visually track A4 before he stopped Shunshin behind him. That's how Amaterasu was insta dodged in the first place too.
> 
> If someone is so fast you can't visually track them, then sure as hell you can't physically keep up with them.


Actually that's not what we see at all. Kakashi got banned from using Chidori because his physical speed >> what he could see. 
So the opposite problem, really.


blk said:


> Even if we agree that that happened in the manga too, he still _barely _reacted. Again, A4 traveled several meters and was super close to punch him in the face, while Minato could only do that hand trick.
> Obviously highlights a massive difference in physical speed.


He didn't barely react. I really don't know why some people think that.

In the time it took  to charge up (he starts first) as we can see and rush Minato  the field with Kunai and threw another past  face before he even used FTG.

We know he didn't have a hard time reacting because Minato casually talks to him   for his rushing moments later.

There is a reason A4  him  and not just a little bit better or something. 


blk said:


> If he could have dodged him normally, he would have done so and tagged him or slashed him. Kinda how Sasuke evaded V1 A4's elbow and counter attacked with Chidori.


You mean instead of leading him into a trap and taking his back he should have tried attacking from the front just because that was Sasuke's only option? Why?


blk said:


> It was stated a V2 punch could one shot KCM Naruto, Tsunade is less durable than him. Why shouldn't she get one shotted too? If the punch blows her brain out she would insta die.


He didn't really say that. 

Nor has anything ever blown out someone's brains or any of the other crazy stuff people magically start doing in the NBD when they see Tsunade. Also if losing a heart or spine doesn't insta kill her, brain damage has little reason to.


blk said:


> A4 can stop while using Shunshin as shown when he stopped before chopping Sasuke's Susanoo. So no he won't go forward, together with Tsunade's body, after she gets punched and blown several meters away.


She didn't even go that far from an unblocked Yasaka Magatama and was unphased.


blk said:


> This doesn't even make sense from a physics standpoint since the opposite force from the punch, going to A4, would slow him down or even stop him completely.
> 
> If Tsunade survives to a V2 punch, A4 will then proceed to chop her in half with another Shunshin


Since when does a punch slow you down before it lands?

And why would we assume he starts in V2 when he usually doesn't?


----------



## Speedyamell (Jul 30, 2020)

ATastyMuffin said:


> That's like saying Naruto has to be able to tank his own Rasengan for him to release it
> 
> Which blatantly isn't true


Lol no. You are claiming tsunade gathers and releases chakra at the point of impact. Basically like putting a bomb between your punch and your target and your fist would have to be durable enough to withstand the explosion to not get damaged.
Bringing up rasengan makes no sense lol


ATastyMuffin said:


> But multiple weakens the overall integrity of their defense, otherwise what the fuck is the point of throwing multiple in the first place lmao


That's not the point. If a character throws three kunai at a tree, and each kunai puts holes in it, it simply means each kunai is strong enough to do so.
And in that case, blocking even just one of those kunai means you can block something with tree piercing capacity. Same with tsunade and magatama


----------



## blk (Jul 30, 2020)

Hi no Ishi said:


> Susano'o is known for being super fast and strong actually. Which is the problem she has to deal with here too.



Cool, still an immobile slowpoke compared to V2 A4 tho.



Hi no Ishi said:


> Actually that's not what we see at all. Kakashi got banned from using Chidori because his physical speed >> what he could see.
> So the opposite problem, really.



But Tsunade is not faster than she can see, so not sure what you want to prove with this. Are you suggesting that she can physcailly put up a defense against someone she can't even visually perceive?



Hi no Ishi said:


> He didn't barely react. I really don't know why some people think that.
> 
> In the time it took  to charge up (he starts first) as we can see and rush Minato  the field with Kunai and threw another past  face before he even used FTG.
> 
> ...



The Minato wank 

There is no indication that Minato could have reacted much sooner than he did.
Could you provide a scan of Minato reacting to V2 A4, or equivalents, from a similar starting distance and much more quickly?

The Kunai was thrown with that hand trick or something similar. Still completely different than being able to put up a guard with your arms or similar.



Hi no Ishi said:


> She didn't even go that far from an unblocked Yasaka Magatama and was unphased.



She was _literally_ blown several meters away from a fodder Jutsu. How does that prove that she won't be moved by a freaking V2 punch lol.



Hi no Ishi said:


> Since when does a punch slow you down before it lands?



Not sure you understood my point.

A4 will slow down _after _landing the punch, not before. To illustrate that the idea of her counter-attacking after getting punched in the face (and having it completely devastated at that), is just impractical nonsense.


----------



## Siskebabas (Jul 30, 2020)

ThirdRidoku said:


> He isn't skilled dude. Gai is known for skill, not A4. A4 is only known as a speedster, not taijutsu master. I'm not saying he literally has no skill at all, but it isn't his defining attribute. And tsunade isn't known for skill either. So skill isn't deciding this matchup.
> 
> A4 isn't agile at all. When he fought Minato, he couldn't move himself out of the way  of Minato's first attack in time, Base Bee had to save him with a tentacle, which is why he thanked Bee.  He isn't agile. There is a difference between being agile and being fast. Agility is about acceleration and deceleration and being able to change directions quickly, speed is just what your max speed is , not how fast you can change it. A4 has good acceleration in moving from 0 to max,  but not good deceleration, or direction changing.
> 
> ...


This doesnt make any sense, so gai suddenly invalidates every Cqc because they are not as good as him? Does that sound logical to you?
Most of fighters would get fucked in a4 position, even obito could not because guess what hiraishin users can reposition themselves almost instantly. And juugo was thrashed no diff versus a4 and obviously v1 can vary between speeds as seen versus kcm naruto.


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 30, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> and obviously v1 can vary between speeds as seen versus kcm naruto.



Isn't that exactly why Tsunade can tag him though? Ay doesn't exactly spam his speed all the time.


----------



## Siskebabas (Jul 30, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Isn't that exactly why Tsunade can tag him though? Ay doesn't exactly spam his speed all the time.


None of 5 susanno could damage him, as he was able to palm the their strikes, i would bet my nuts on a4 countering her not opposite, furthermore this "theme" strenght vs speed was explored multiples times throughout diffrent manga and mostly conclusion is the same as whats the point of having strenght when you cant hit your opponent.
If i were to say tsunade cant even one shot a4 considering he two defenses stacked one upon another


----------



## Hi no Ishi (Jul 30, 2020)

blk said:


> Cool, still an immobile slowpoke compared to V2 A4 tho.


Fanfic. 
If that was even remotely the case he wouldn't have had to block them and a second of looking away would not have got him caught and fucked like it did. 


blk said:


> But Tsunade is not faster than she can see, so not sure what you want to prove with this. Are you suggesting that she can physcailly put up a defense against someone she can't even visually perceive?


No you said that a person couldn't react faster than they can see which I pointed out was directly contradicted by the manga. 


blk said:


> There is no indication that Minato could have reacted much sooner than he did.
> Could you provide a scan of Minato reacting to V2 A4, or equivalents, from a similar starting distance and much more quickly?


What are you talking about? Did you get something in your eyes?

I literally posted a scan of Minato casually talking to A4 while A4 is charging him and easily reacting to him the second time   
And not only do you not address that he did it or the portrayal out of A4's own mouth you ask me for a scan that I've already provided?

The dude isn't phased by A4's speed at all and even A4 holds Minato far above him (Unsurpassable/ the finest Shinobi to ever live).

Or is this "Minato shouldn't have waited for A4 to be in a bad position to jump and flex him or attack B he should do it when it's pointless and enforced a stalemate" logic I see around here. 

And bring the manga or concede dont just cry "wank" with absolutely no evidence like last time. 

I know for a fact that you a better poster than that, I've seen it.


blk said:


> The Kunai was thrown with that hand trick or something similar. Still completely different than being able to put up a guard with your arms or similar.


Lel "can throw a volley of Kunai and then another one but can't block in time" 

Just no. 

Also Minato is  but not crazy strong like the Raikage and Tsunade. If he blocked he probably would lose a limb and some ribs. If he blocked Tsunade he would  unquestionably.




blk said:


> She was _literally_ blown several meters away from a fodder Jutsu. How does that prove that she won't be moved by a freaking V2 punch lol.


Holy crap bro. You just cant be serious.

The jutsu that your very own Itachi calls his _strongest long range attack_. The one that Madara uses the  tomoe to cause separate cracks in a Double layer shield made out of Karura  and Oonoki's Stone Golem and still got a compliment from it only taking that much damage. 

That's the jutsu you are gonna pretend is now a _fodder_ jutsu just because you need it to be?

3 of those. 
A bit smaller but individually about the size of her torso nonetheless. At  blank  while in the air. In to the tree that is close behind them as we can see in the second scans middle left panel. 
And he is literally shocked and confused that she is still  until he sees her wounds heal. Which he would have no reason to be if it was a fodder jutsu or anywhere close.

What your saying is 100% against all feats narrative and portrayal about Yasaka Magatama 


blk said:


> A4 will slow down _after _landing the punch, not before. To illustrate that the idea of her counter-attacking after getting punched in the face (and having it completely devastated at that), is just impractical nonsense.


Her being devastated when she can walk of Magatama is wishful thinking. 

And again unless he starts at full power which he only really did against Minato and Madara then even people like Taka can block him. Someone who can combo with lightened  V2 A4 and react faster than Base A4 when exhausted isn't going to have a harder time than Jugo blocking V1 A4.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 30, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> None of 5 susanno could damage him, as he was able to palm the their strikes, i would bet my nuts on a4 countering her not opposite



Tsunade was actually able to knock a Susano'o clone down. She's better where it matters - CQC. 

Also, those five Susano'o clones nearly killed Ay if not for Onoki's help, so...and don't even try to use the ''loool Ay was distracted'' excuse, if it takes one VERY small moment of surprise for the Susano'o clones to take him down, that only proves my point. Tsunade was coughing up blood and being taxed by her healing technique but somehow the clones never managed to take her down.



Siskebabas said:


> furthermore this "theme" strenght vs speed was explored multiples times throughout diffrent manga



Cool. In a straight up CQC battle, though, skill is what counts. Tsunade has more skill than Ay and more strength. So she wins.

Also, people get defeated by slower opponents all the time. Kisame was slower than Guy but forced him to open the Eight Gates. Sasuke was slower than KN0 Naruto but was able to outreact him with the 3T Sharingan. Kimimaro was slower than his base self upon using the Sage Seal but stronger than before in his performance against Lee and Gaara, etc.

Speed isn't an end all, be all.

The theme of speed vs strength was explored as well. Guy needed the Gates to beat Kisame.



Siskebabas said:


> If i were to say tsunade cant even one shot a4 considering he two defenses stacked one upon another



Lol wut? Tsunade is way stronger than Ay. A single hit would kill him. 

Tsunade's strength is on par with Ay's after being enhanced by Onoki's jutsu.


----------



## LostSelf (Jul 30, 2020)

Tsunade's only chance is killing the Raikage before he finds out about regeneration.

The moment Ei finds out, he's going for a head chop. And there's nothing Tsunade can to do prevent him from doing so. Not a reaction, speed or anything. And even if she manages to block somehow, Ei's Karate chop will go through her defense easily.

This guy could cut the Hachibi's horn which is far thicker than her. And his Karate chops are able to easily cut his own durable arm, being him more durable than her by a notable margin...


----------



## Siskebabas (Jul 30, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Tsunade was actually able to knock a Susano'o clone down. She's better where it matters - CQC.
> 
> Also, those five Susano'o clones nearly killed Ay if not for Onoki's help, so...and don't even try to use the ''loool Ay was distracted'' excuse, if it takes one VERY small moment of surprise for the Susano'o clones to take him down, that only proves my point. Tsunade was coughing up blood and being taxed by her healing technique but somehow the clones never managed to take her down.
> 
> ...


Nothing supports that tsunade is more skilled then a4 in taijutsu, they are more or less equal, as both use simiral style. 
And we going circles again with a4 getting distracted. This is very simple, pre distraction a4 was doing completely fine
Tsunade was obviously was not doing fine supported by a4 comment and with the panel of her succumbing to damage. 
One cant exist without the other, tsunade was doing not okay regardless while a4 got fucked due tsunade overestimating herself. 
Ofcourse tsunade is stronger then a4, no one questioning that, though weaker one can still block stronger strikes. 
Examples: kcm Naruto blocking a4, deva guarding versus SM naruto kick, madara blocking a4 and so on.
And then same speed killed Kisame, and base Kisame is no slow poke either. Furthermore speed disparity here is not minimal or marginal, its literally huge to the point it counters ms users when tsunade cant even compete with 3t user in terms of visual profiency

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 30, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> Nothing supports that tsunade is more skilled then a4 in taijutsu, they are more or less equal, as both use simiral style



Tsunade outperformed Ay against the Susano'o clones in CQC.



Siskebabas said:


> And we going circles again with a4 getting distracted. This is very simple, pre distraction a4 was doing completely fine



No, he was not. He was pinned under the blade of the Susano'o clone he was fighting. He did not have the upper hand.

Tsunade. Did.



Siskebabas said:


> Tsunade was obviously was not doing fine supported by a4 comment and with the panel of her succumbing to damageOne cant exist without the other, tsunade was doing not okay regardless while a4 got fucked due tsunade overestimating herself





Headcanon. And I never said Tsunade was doing ''okay'', she however did do better than Ay did.



Siskebabas said:


> Ofcourse tsunade is stronger then a4, no one questioning that, though weaker one can still block stronger strikes



Not if the gap is really huge, no.



Siskebabas said:


> Examples: kcm Naruto blocking a4, deva guarding versus SM naruto kick, madara blocking a4 and so on



Bad comparisons all the way.

KCM Naruto and Ay are obviously equal in strength, Yahiko Path was sent FLYING by the kick, and Madara was sent FLYING as well.



Siskebabas said:


> And then same speed killed Kisame, and base Kisame is no slow poke either



Gated Guy had POWER to go with his speed, that's why he won. Speed alone would've done nothing.

Base Kisame is one of the slower Akatsuki members. Nearly everyone else is faster.



Siskebabas said:


> Furthermore speed disparity here is not minimal or marginal, its literally huge to the point it counters ms users when tsunade cant even compete with 3t user in terms of visual profiency



But even a huge speed disparity matters not when it comes to Taijutsu. Ay's speed comes in bursts, it's not constant.


----------



## StarWanderer (Jul 30, 2020)

Are you realy discussing this stomp thread? *For real*? 

A character with *sh*t tier* speed level according to Databooks (3.5), *without a single notable speed feat* throughout the manga, will be able to defeat Ei, who outperformed KCM Naruto with his *V1* up until that V2 dodge? Ei, who can break her bones with a single punch, let alone chops? 

She has nothing on him, period. She cant even react to his V1 within such a distance. She cant hit him because of her pathetic reaction speed, His single attack, no matter what it is, can render her unable to fight. And she cant regenerate forever, because her regeneration spends chakra. Hell, he probably can outlast her due to his immense chakra reserves. Or kill her with a single chop to the neck, since she nearly died after Madara cut her body in half. 

Slow, walking, vulnurable punching bag. 

Ei *slaughters*.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 30, 2020)

StarWanderer said:


> Are you realy discussing this stomp thread? *For real*?



I know, right? Tsunade should stomp Ay into the ground.



StarWanderer said:


> A character with *sh*t tier* speed level according to Databooks (3.5), *without a single notable speed feat* throughout the manga, will be able to defeat Ei, who outperformed KCM Naruto with his *V1* up until that V2 dodge?



Ah, yes, because slower opponents can't beat faster ones...oh wait. Hidan (3.5 in speed) beat Asuma (4.5 in speed) and Kisame (3.5 in speed) beat Base Guy (5 in speed). It's also not as if P1 Gaara beat P1 Lee in spite of being waaaay slower or anything either...



StarWanderer said:


> Ei, who can break her bones with a single punch, let alone chops



Ah, yes, because .



StarWanderer said:


> She has nothing on him, period. She cant even react to his V1 within such a distance. She cant hit him because of her pathetic reaction speed



Tell that to the Susano'o clones - .

Also, tell that to .



StarWanderer said:


> His single attack, no matter what it is, can render her unable to fight. And she cant regenerate forever, because her regeneration spends chakra. Hell, he probably can outlast her due to his immense chakra reserves



Which is why ...



StarWanderer said:


> Or kill her with a single chop to the neck, since she nearly died after Madara cut her body in half



Ignoring the fact A) , B), C) , and D) Madara needed to .




StarWanderer said:


> Slow, walking, vulnurable punching bag.



The only punching bag here is the Raikage. 

All Tsunade has to do is tap the ground with her foot to send his ass soaring through the sky.



StarWanderer said:


> Ei is *slaughtered*.



Fixed for you.

This entire post is laughable garbage.

Reactions: Like 4


----------



## FlamingRain (Jul 30, 2020)

LostSelf said:


> Tsunade's only chance is killing the Raikage before he finds out about regeneration.
> 
> The moment Ei finds out, he's going for a head chop. And there's nothing Tsunade can to do prevent him from doing so. Not a reaction, speed or anything. And even if she manages to block somehow, Ei's Karate chop will go through her defense easily.
> 
> This guy could cut the Hachibi's horn which is far thicker than her. And his Karate chops are able to easily cut his own durable arm, being him more durable than her by a notable margin...



After finding out about Tsunade's regeneration in the manga Raikage's only concern about it was the stamina it required so why would he opt for a head chop the moment he finds out about it here? Also how would Raikage ever learn about Tsunade's regeneration without also informing her how much of a speed advantage he has in the process? What exactly is preventing her from inhibiting that speed by blowing up the floor or spreading slugs out?

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 31, 2020)

Honestly, *Tsunade* should win with moderate difficulty at most.

While the Fourth Raikage is much faster, people have a habit of overestimating speed in this manga. There are plenty of instances in which superior speed wasn't enough to prevail over an enemy of some kind. Take, for instance, . Other examples would include , where Asuma was an entire tier faster (4.5 > 3.5) and . In close-quarters combat, skill is what generally matters most - not speed - and Tsunade's performance there outclasses the Raikage's own. . While Tsunade was using Strength of a Hundred's healing abilities to boost her performance, Ay wasn't_ not _using Ninjutsu either - he had his durability, strength, and speed boosted by his lightning armor as well, and still did _worse_ (the latter even seems to be in V2, if you look at his seemingly spiked hair).

It should be noted that Ay isn't always moving at his highest speeds much of the time -  in spite of being . In fact, the only times we've seen Ay use his higher speeds is when he knows he needs them. He used his super speed against because . He amped up to V2 versus Sasuke because he knew the Mangekyo Sharingan can cast  and likewise, amped up to V2 against Minato due to knowing . Tsunade, suffice to say, has_ no_ such reputation in regards to speed. Therefore, Ay might be rash enough to try his luck with Tsunade in CQC...only to find out the hard way she's better and of course, *much stronger*. It's not like .

A single hit from Ay's Lightning Style: Horizontal Oppression . It took a , yet . We also know , which would not only lessen his physical durability . This also leaves him open to a potential _double attack_ before he can fully recover (though I think a direct hit from Tsunade would _at the very least _take him for a loop in V2 and *kill him outright* in V1), where the Sannin can take advantage of the Raikage's weakened state to . It took a genius like Kabuto some time to figure out what happened to him and the only reason he didn't die then is because he was a fighting an _exhausted Tsunade who hadn't been a ninja* for decades *beforehand_ (notice she says ''*healing* will take too much chakra''?). This _won't _be an issue if we're talking about the version of the Sannin who till  and had no such issues with healing, combat, or what not. In fact, she seems to have .

Whereas Tsunade can do a lot to the Raikage, there's not really anything the Raikage can do to Tsunade. She is capable of  - in spite of worries that the technique would  - a capacity the former does *not *have, mind you. . It's also worth pointing out that Madara seems to have buried a tree separating both halves, implying that she *would have regenerated from bisection* if not for this obstacle presented before her. Suffice to say, these theories of Ay killing her by just cutting her head off are a bit...baseless.

Unfortunately, Ay doesn't have Wood Style, knowledge on the Hokage's ability to survive bisection or decapitation, or any way of stopping Katsuyu from putting Tsunade back _if necessary_ - the slug can and  to avoid being destroyed by her enemy. Add to that, and . It's telling *Orochimaru* himself spoke as if Katsuyu could really kill him.

Reactions: Like 4


----------



## StarWanderer (Jul 31, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> I know, right? Tsunade should stomp Ay into the ground.








Aegon Targaryen said:


> Ah, yes, because slower opponents can't beat faster ones...oh wait. Hidan (3.5 in speed) beat Asuma (4.5 in speed) and Kisame (3.5 in speed) beat Base Guy (5 in speed). It's also not as if P1 Gaara beat P1 Lee in spite of being waaaay slower or anything either...



Kisame is 4 in speed, which makes him faster than Tsunade according to Databook. Furthermore, he has much beter feats than her, and yet who sh*t his pants because of KCM Naruto's speed? That's right - Kisame did. Who was outperformed by V1 Ei in speed? That's right - KCM Naruto was, after making Kisame's pants dirty. Oh, and Ei was dominating not just KCM Naruto but Killer Bee as well. 

Tsunade has never, ever, done anything remotely close to that. She has never, ever, reacted to someone as fast as V1 Ei. Her speed feats are pathetic for a Kage-level, yet Ei is pretty much comfortable with shinobi amped by TB's chakra. 

Which means that V1 Ei is fast enough to blitz her. 



Aegon Targaryen said:


> Ah, yes, because .



Ah yes, because she can do it forever and regenerate immediately after Ei breaks most of her bones. Oh, she cant? She cant. She doesnt have the same chakra reserves as Ei does. 

Basically one good punch that was heavy even for KCM Naruto would make her a bloody bone bag, rendering her useless. She tries to regenerate - Ei repeats the procedure. If he gets tired of that - he can simply cut her to pieces, effectively ending the fight.




Aegon Targaryen said:


> Tell that to the Susano'o clones - .



Well yes, i can tell that they cant move fast enough from one position to the other. I dont remember them being good runners and i dont understand how that proves anything. When Tsunade fights someone as fast as KCM Naruto on equal grounds, let me know. Kappa


And





Aegon Targaryen said:


> Also, tell that to .



Who told you that this is Ei's fastest punch in V1? You do know he ampes his speed by constantly increasing Raiton chakra, right?

Suigetsu blocked his punch, Jugo reacted to his attack as well, and later, during the war, KCM Naruto - a much faster shinobi than any of these two - couldnt outmach V1 Ei in speed/taijutsu until that last V2 punch attack. Thi alone puts Ei on a speed tier Tsunade is not even remotely close to. 



Aegon Targaryen said:


> Which is why ...



Because decapitating Madara is obviously a lot harder than doing the same to Tsunade. If she nearly dies from being bisected, she would die in this fight for sure. Ei doesnt need a lot of chakra do decapitate her, or turn her into a bloody cookie.She, however, needs a whole lot of chakra to regenerate mortal injuries such as bisection, for example. 


Because you are obviously wanking and 





Aegon Targaryen said:


> Ignoring the fact A) , B), C) , and D) Madara needed to .



And what would prevent Ei from doing so? Decapitate her and throw her body parts away from each other. She survived for a long time right until Madara bisected her. Ei can do that as well every time she regenerates so her chakra reserves would be depleted. She summons Katsuyu? Well, good luck summoning it before Ei hits her and even if she does - Katsuyu's can be pierced and cut. 

And by the way - we dont know if she can survive decapitation, or her head being cutted in half etc. 




Aegon Targaryen said:


> The only punching bag here is the Raikage.
> 
> All Tsunade has to do is tap the ground with her foot to send his ass soaring through the sky.



Because you are obviously wanking on Tsunade and lowballing Ei. 

V1 is already enough and V2 is not restricted here, dude. 




Aegon Targaryen said:


> This entire post is laughable garbage.



Yeah, because you said so.


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 31, 2020)

StarWanderer said:


> Kisame is 4 in speed, which makes him faster than Tsunade according to Databook



Someone's missing the point. Since you're not very smart, I'll break it down for you. You seem to think speed is all that matters in a fight, when in reality faster characters have been defeated by slower ones all the time. That was why I brought up Kisame vs Guy, where Kisame beat Base Guy in spite of being a* tier* lower in speed (5 > 4), as well as Hidan vs Asuma (3.5 vs 4.5) and Gaara vs Lee. Tsunade is slower than Ay but is also stronger and better in actual hand-to-hand combat plus can heal. Therefore Tsunade wins.



StarWanderer said:


> Furthermore, he has much beter feats than her



Lmao. No, he doesn't.



StarWanderer said:


> and yet who sh*t his pants because of KCM Naruto's speed? That's right - Kisame did



That was KCM Naruto's *maximum speed*, which is_ way_ greater than Ay's top speed. That speed was compared to the Yellow Flash.



StarWanderer said:


> Who was outperformed by V1 Ei in speed? That's right - KCM Naruto was, after making Kisame's pants dirty



That *wasn't* KCM Naruto's max speed.

When KCM Naruto used his max speed, _he_ outperformed *V2 Ay* and was compared to Minato.

The fact he wasn't compared to Minato while fighting V1 Ay shows he was using less speed.



StarWanderer said:


> Oh, and Ei was dominating not just KCM Naruto


*
Ay didn't dominate shit lmao*. Naruto wasn't even _fighting back_ while Ay was hitting him with *intent to kill*. The Raikage couldn't land a scratch on him. Naruto was just trying to get past, not fight him head on. He didn't use a single fucking_ jutsu_ other than Body Flicker.



StarWanderer said:


> but Killer Bee as well



Which is why Bee _won_ the moment they engaged one-on-one?

Bee didn't even use any of his Eight-Tailed forms and he won.



StarWanderer said:


> Tsunade has never, ever, done anything remotely close to that. She has never, ever, reacted to someone as fast as V1 Ei



Thankfully she is better in CQC (also imagine forgetting that two physical fighters' main area of expertise is CQC). That is why Tsunade outperformed Ay against Madara's Susano'o clones, _knocking one down _while *V2 Ay* was *bent backwards* by one...



StarWanderer said:


> *Her speed feats are pathetic for a Kage-level*



Considering she blocked Madara's Fire Style projectile attack before Mei could finish her Water Style, I'll call bullshit on that.



StarWanderer said:


> Which means that V1 Ei is fast enough to blitz her



Tsunade survives the blitz like Sage Juugo did (using Strength of a Hundred) and punches his head off while he thinks she's dead.



StarWanderer said:


> Oh, she cant? She cant. She doesnt have the same chakra reserves as Ei does



Except she outlasted Ay in terms of having stamina for their respective modes. I'm starting you don't even read the manga.



StarWanderer said:


> Basically one good punch that was heavy even for KCM Naruto would make her a bloody bone bag, rendering her useless



Lmao, no. Tsunade heals from that shit as she healed from Madara's attacks and pink mists Ay with a single kick.



StarWanderer said:


> . She tries to regenerate - Ei repeats the procedure



Implying she will _let_ Ay repeat the procedure lmao or that Ay can stop her. She sends him flying by knocking the ground with her foot.

Alternatively, she can just summon Katsuyu who can chase Ay off with great division and acid blasts, whom Ay can't even kill.



StarWanderer said:


> If he gets tired of that - he can simply cut her to pieces, effectively ending the fight



Funny, Mabui's jutsu did that and couldn't keep her down. Ay isn't doing shit to her here.



StarWanderer said:


> Well yes, i can tell that they cant move fast enough from one position to the other. ]I dont remember them being good runners and i dont understand how that proves anything



So if they're not good runners, how is it that one of them was able to keep Ay pinned down under its sword... 

Could it be that Ay's speed is actually overrated in importance by fans and when it comes to Taijutsu, he loses to Tsunade?



StarWanderer said:


> When Tsunade fights someone as fast as KCM Naruto on equal grounds, let me know. Kappa



Tsunade did better against Madara's Susano'o clones in CQC than Ay did. That's more than good enough.



StarWanderer said:


> Who told you that this is Ei's fastest punch in V1? You do know he ampes his speed by constantly increasing Raiton chakra, right?



I don't remember ever saying this was ''Ay's fastest punch in V1''? I just said Suigetsu blocked his punch. My argument was that Ay doesn't use his speed nearly as much as you fanboys love to think he does. His normal attacking speed is a lot slower.

That, Tsunade can comfortably handle.



StarWanderer said:


> Suigetsu blocked his punch, Jugo reacted to his attack as well, and later, during the war



*So you admit Suigetsu and Juugo reacted to his attacks...why would Tsunade not be able to do the same*? Weird.



StarWanderer said:


> Because decapitating Madara is obviously a lot harder than doing the same to Tsunade



The actual fuck is this comment? What does decapitating Madara have to do with anything? Can you not read?



StarWanderer said:


> If she nearly dies from being bisected, she would die in this fight for sure



Yeah, I doubt it. She didn't die in spite of being left in that state for a long time and spending all her chakra healing the other Kage...if Madara cutting her in half and throwing a tree at her to put her body together couldn't kill her, Ay never will.



StarWanderer said:


> Ei doesnt need a lot of chakra do decapitate her, or turn her into a bloody cookie



Yeah, he will. There's nothing he can do to her she cannot regenerate from.



StarWanderer said:


> She, however, needs a whole lot of chakra to regenerate mortal injuries such as bisection, for example.



Yeah, you just made this part up. Provide some proof or gtfo.



StarWanderer said:


> And what would prevent Ei from doing so? Decapitate her and throw her body parts away from each other



Because decapitating people is Ay's usual fighting style...



StarWanderer said:


> She survived for a long time right until Madara bisected her



No ''until''.

She survived after being bisected as well and sacrificed most of her remaining chakra to heal the other Kage instead of putting herself back, as Katsuyu said she could do.



StarWanderer said:


> Ei can do that as well every time she regenerates so her chakra reserves would be depleted. She summons Katsuyu? Well, good luck summoning it before Ei hits her and even if she does



She won't need luck, considering that she can regenerate before Ay even knows what the fuck happened. I mean, fucking berserker Juugo survived not one but two punches without Ay even knowing he survived...guarantee Tsunade can do the same.



StarWanderer said:


> Katsuyu's can be pierced and cut



Katsuyu can liquefy, so good luck piercing and cutting her then. Katsuyu also can survive being split apart just fine.



StarWanderer said:


> And by the way - we dont know if she can survive decapitation, or her head being cutted in half etc.



I mean, she survived being torn apart by Mabui's space-time Ninjutsu and being bisected...so yeah, decapitation ain't shit here.



StarWanderer said:


> Because *I am* obviously wanking on *Ay* and lowballing *Tsunade*



Fixed for you. Congratulations on ignoring every single one of Tsunade's feats though.



StarWanderer said:


> V1 is already enough and V2 is not restricted here, dude



I know, but Ay still loses regardless if he uses V2 or not. Ay will most likely get killed while he's still in V1 though.


StarWanderer said:


> Yeah, because you said so.



I mean, it is, though.


----------



## Hi no Ishi (Jul 31, 2020)

StarWanderer said:


> Her speed feats are pathetic for a Kage-level,


A person who blitzed Manda, out sped base A4 whom the other Kage regard as fast, combo attacked with Backpack A4, and fought 5 Susano'o in CQC while landing attacks.

A person A4 considered of help in a speed battle with Naruto and Killer B, who had their speed compared to the Raikage by Uchiha Madara and is considered a strong Shinobi by that same Madara.

Is now pathetic for a Kage level when most don't have any where near those feats and hype?

What?


----------



## LostSelf (Jul 31, 2020)

FlamingRain said:


> After finding out about Tsunade's regeneration in the manga Raikage's only concern about it was the stamina it required so why would he opt for a head chop the moment he finds out about it here? Also how would Raikage ever learn about Tsunade's regeneration without also informing her how much of a speed advantage he has in the process? What exactly is preventing her from inhibiting that speed by blowing up the floor or spreading slugs out?



The Raikage is not Susano'o. If his only way to kill preventing regeneration is chopping, he will. Even if he doesn't believe she will die from it, she'll waste a lot of chakra and that's even if he lets her regen.

I also never said she was not going to learn about Ei's speed. She has no way of countering V2 unless she tries to stay inside Katsuyu. The slug has no way of tracking the Raikage either.

And if Sasuke couldn't physically do a thing against V2, I doubt Tsunade is hitting the floor the moment the Raikage shunshins to take her out. And even if she hits it, he can just dodge and keep his momentum.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## FlamingRain (Jul 31, 2020)

LostSelf said:


> The Raikage is not Susano'o. If his only way to kill preventing regeneration is chopping, he will. Even if he doesn't believe she will die from it, she'll waste a lot of chakra and that's even if he lets her regen.
> 
> I also never said she was not going to learn about Ei's speed. She has no way of countering V2 unless she tries to stay inside Katsuyu. The slug has no way of tracking the Raikage either.
> 
> And if Sasuke couldn't physically do a thing against V2, I doubt Tsunade is hitting the floor the moment the Raikage shunshins to take her out. And even if she hits it, he can just dodge and keep his momentum.



Raikage has no method of delivering damage Susano'o doesn't also have so if he's only concerned about Tsunade exhausting herself when fighting them simply chopping her head isn't something he considers a solution to the problem of her regeneration. Raikage maintaining his momentum as if the environment remained unchanged also isn't a thing or else collapsing the room wouldn't have allowed Sasuke to grab Karin and casually stroll up to the floor Mifune, Danzō, Ohnoki, Mei and their bodyguards were waiting on. The obstacles don't clear just because he's Raikage, he has to work his way through them like anyone else would. Size and numbers mean Katsuyu can also inhibit him that way, she needn't act as a hiding spot for Tsunade. If there is too much stuff around for unfettered Shunshins it will be as if Raikage isn't even using V2.

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## MHA massive fan (Jul 31, 2020)

blk said:


> Yes they both fight by hitting hard.
> 
> But his speed hard counters Tsunade, that's what you are missing.
> 
> ...



She didn’t die from being split in half 
How’s her brain being punched in different sort of damage to having your spinal cord split? Please explain

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## MHA massive fan (Jul 31, 2020)

blk said:


> As @ATastyMuffin pointed out, that's not Tsunade actual raw strength.
> 
> A4, after stopping his V2 Shunshin, busted through Ribcage Susanoo. This means that a V2 punch that actually takes advantage of the insane acceleration will have a ton more force behind it.
> Tsunade will take heavy damage from that if not die directly.
> ...



no doubt she gets bisected by a chop
However that won’t kill her 
We have seen on panel her being split in half and not die
Exhausted from lack of chakra yet still healed the 4 downed Kage 

if orochimaru can survive being split in half casually why can’t tsunade with a better regeneration technique ? 

i mean despite orochimaru regen he hasn’t claimed his technique prevents him from dying 

Then we have her spine being ripped through 3 times on panel and her recovering from this

Why being bisected once would kill her is beyond me nothing on panel suggests that 

Why ignore the authors words though, if you don’t believe she can regen bones and organs then you must also not believe daikodan absorbs chakra as we never saw that happen

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 31, 2020)

Hi no Ishi said:


> A person who blitzed Manda, out sped base A4 whom the other Kage regard as fast, combo attacked with Backpack A4, and fought 5 Susano'o in CQC while landing attacks.
> 
> A person A4 considered of help in a speed battle with Naruto and Killer B, who had their speed compared to the Raikage by Uchiha Madara and us considered a strong Shinobi by that same Madara.
> 
> ...



Tsunade also countered Madara's Fire Style projectiles - which Madara deemed fast enough to finish the Five Kage off - before Mei could use a jutsu. Last time I checked, something very similar was its own fighting style due to the speed involved (the quick draw style used by Mifune). While Tsunade's ''regular'' speed isn't insane, she has a strong Body Flicker not unlike Sasuke for example.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## macmoshady (Jul 31, 2020)

I think the slug princess wins

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Hi no Ishi (Jul 31, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Tsunade also countered Madara's Fire Style projectiles - which Madara deemed fast enough to finish the Five Kage off - before Mei could use a jutsu. Last time I checked, something very similar was its own fighting style due to the speed involved (the quick draw style used by Mifune). While Tsunade's ''regular'' speed isn't insane, she has a strong Body Flicker not unlike Sasuke for example.


Which of course must mean Madara is slow or something or his jutsu are now fodder because something something downplay though lol.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 1, 2020)

Hi no Ishi said:


> Which of course must mean Madara is slow or something or his jutsu are now fodder because something something downplay though lol.



Of course lol. People would go as far as downplay his V3 Susano'o's feats even though the same thing gave V2 Ay trouble lmao.


----------



## StarWanderer (Aug 1, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Someone's missing the point. Since you're not very smart, I'll break it down for you. You seem to think speed is all that matters in a fight, when in reality faster characters have been defeated by slower ones all the time. That was why I brought up Kisame vs Guy, where Kisame beat Base Guy in spite of being a* tier* lower in speed (5 > 4), as well as Hidan vs Asuma (3.5 vs 4.5) and Gaara vs Lee. Tsunade is slower than Ay but is also stronger and better in actual hand-to-hand combat plus can heal. Therefore Tsunade wins.



The problem is that you didnt get what i meant in the first place. And since you are not very smart, i'll break it down for you - skill doesnt matter when your opponent can make 5-10 moves while you can make one. The speed difference is too big in here for her skill to matter. If Ei can go toe-to-toe with KCM Naruto using his V1, then Tsunade doesnt stand a chance. 




Aegon Targaryen said:


> Lmao. No, he doesn't.



Reacting to Killer Bee and holding his own against Might Guy are better speed feats than anything Tsunade has shown. 




Aegon Targaryen said:


> That was KCM Naruto's *maximum speed*, which is_ way_ greater than Ay's top speed. That speed was compared to the Yellow Flash.



Just like the yellow flash doesnt mean that he was just as fast as him - Bee thought Naruto used the same technique as The Yellow Flash, that's it. 




Aegon Targaryen said:


> That *wasn't* KCM Naruto's max speed.
> 
> When KCM Naruto used his max speed, _he_ outperformed *V2 Ay* and was compared to Minato.
> 
> The fact he wasn't compared to Minato while fighting V1 Ay shows he was using less speed.



Of course it was, for a time. KCM Naruto tried and couldnt beat him speed wise, untill Ei decided to use his V2, during which Tsunade, by the way, couldnt make a single move, although she decided to protect KCM Naruto from being killed. 



Aegon Targaryen said:


> *Ay didn't dominate shit lmao*. Naruto wasn't even _fighting back_ while Ay was hitting him with *intent to kill*. The Raikage couldn't land a scratch on him. Naruto was just trying to get past, not fight him head on. He didn't use a single fucking_ jutsu_ other than Body Flicker.



Yet he was trying to pass in order to help his friends on the battlefield. He couldnt because of Raikage, who, for a time, outperformed him speed wise and injured his lip. Re-read chapter 543. 




Aegon Targaryen said:


> Which is why Bee _won_ the moment they engaged one-on-one?
> 
> Bee didn't even use any of his Eight-Tailed forms and he won.



When it came to Lariat, not before that. Again - re-read that chapter.




Aegon Targaryen said:


> Thankfully she is better in CQC (also imagine forgetting that two physical fighters' main area of expertise is CQC). That is why Tsunade outperformed Ay against Madara's Susano'o clones, _knocking one down _while *V2 Ay* was *bent backwards* by one...



While Ei didnt have any injury and Tsunade was stabbed by two Susanoo blades. 

How does that one instance proves anything while we dont know how well they fought against Susanoos before that? Oh yeah, she knocked down a Susanoo, getting sloppy while Ei wasnt, such a good speed performance. 

How does that instance prove me wrong? She has no speed feats even remotely close to Ei's caliber and that is true. She is too slow, too sloppy to even react to Ei's moves. She might also be worse fighter than Ei, by the way. He has shown larger CQC moveset at the very least. 




Aegon Targaryen said:


> Considering she blocked Madara's Fire Style projectile attack before Mei could finish her Water Style, I'll call bullshit on that.



Mei that was nearly standing on her legs at that moment because of her depleeted stamina?

Featless statists reacted to Madara's Fire Style so why Tsunade cant? Again - for a Kage-level shinobi her speed feats are truly pathetic. 




Aegon Targaryen said:


> Tsunade survives the blitz like Sage Juugo did (using Strength of a Hundred) and punches his head off while he thinks she's dead.



Is there at least one reason to think she is just as fast as Juugo, or that Ei will use the same amount of Raiton chakra that he used against Juugo, or that she will be able to hit Ei at least once? 

*Nope.* 




Aegon Targaryen said:


> Except she outlasted Ay in terms of having stamina for their respective modes. I'm starting you don't even read the manga.



In a fight against Madara? Only because Ei had to use more powerful chakra and Tsunade didnt have any serious injuries except for the bisection Madara gave to her in the end of that fight. He chakra reserves has never been compared to those of The Tailed Beast. 




Aegon Targaryen said:


> Lmao, no. Tsunade heals from that shit as she healed from Madara's attacks and pink mists Ay with a single kick.



Can she heal from being turned into bloody bone bag? Most likely yes, but only in her Ninpo Sozo Saisei which she has to activate before Ei hits her. Will she become useless after that? Yes, because after that Ei can do whatever he wants with her while she heals. He can decapitate her while her body lies on the ground, for example. And i dont remember him giving his enemies a chance to recover. He's fought to kill, most of the time. 



Aegon Targaryen said:


> Implying she will _let_ Ay repeat the procedure lmao or that Ay can stop her. She sends him flying by knocking the ground with her foot.
> 
> Alternatively, she can just summon Katsuyu who can chase Ay off with great division and acid blasts, whom Ay can't even kill.



Ei can pierce through Katsuyu and get to Tsunade in order to take her head off. 

Also, you have to prove she is fast enough to knock the ground before Ei hits her, or to hit Ei at least once in a fight. Because again - her speed is pathetic in comparison to The Fourth. 

Furthermore, the hit KCM Naruto was impressed by was landed in the air, which means that sending him flying is useless and might lead to even faster defeat. 



Aegon Targaryen said:


> Funny, Mabui's jutsu did that and couldn't keep her down. Ay isn't doing shit to her here.



Ei's chops are strong enough to cut off his own hand, unlike Mabui's teleportation. In this fight, he can land multiple chops, cutting her into peaces. Can she regenerate from that? I highly doubt that, even if her Ninpo Sozo Saisei is active. And even if she can, she'll need to spend her chakra for that and Ei wont let her do that successfuly. 




Aegon Targaryen said:


> So if they're not good runners, how is it that one of them was able to keep Ay pinned down under its sword...
> 
> Cutting her to pieces, cutting her head Could it be that Ay's speed is actually overrated in importance by fans and when it comes to Taijutsu, he loses to Tsunade?



It could be anything, because we dont know how the fight was going on before that instance. And in that instance, Tsunade hasnt shown any good speed feat whatsoever. Hitting Susanoo who couldnt get away from the attack due to Susanoo's slow moving speed isnt a great feat. Not even remotely close to what Ei has shown, even in his V1. 



Aegon Targaryen said:


> Tsunade did better against Madara's Susano'o clones in CQC than Ay did. That's more than good enough.



How so? Getting stabbed multiple times while Ei didnt get a single hit on panel means she did better? No she didnt. We dont even know much about that fight anyway, except for one single panel.




Aegon Targaryen said:


> I don't remember ever saying this was ''Ay's fastest punch in V1''? I just said Suigetsu blocked his punch. My argument was that Ay doesn't use his speed nearly as much as you fanboys love to think he does. His normal attacking speed is a lot slower.
> 
> That, Tsunade can comfortably handle.



Slow enough for Tsunade to use it to her own advantage? Nope. She cant land a single hit in here because the speed gap is too large, and even if she somehow blocks one hit, she will get her limbs broken and Ei might go faster next time. 

You are too angry with Ei's fanboys to admit the truth. Tsunade doesnt stand a chance. 




Aegon Targaryen said:


> *So you admit Suigetsu and Juugo reacted to his attacks...why would Tsunade not be able to do the same*? Weird.



Because you have no proof she would? Becuuse there is no basis to think she would? 

Yeah, so weird. 




Aegon Targaryen said:


> The actual fuck is this comment? What does decapitating Madara have to do with anything? Can you not read?



Ei spent a lot more chakra in that fight than he needs to decapitate Tsunade. A single flicker, a single attack and the fight is over. 

It's your problem you dont get it. 




Aegon Targaryen said:


> Yeah, I doubt it. She didn't die in spite of being left in that state for a long time and spending all her chakra healing the other Kage...if Madara cutting her in half and throwing a tree at her to put her body together couldn't kill her, Ay never will.



You can doubt whatever you want with your headcanon, but the fact is - she nearly died from that. Ei didnt even use his cloak in order to cut his hand off, although he can survive Mabui's deleportation and stop Sasuke's Chidori with his body. He doesnt need much chakra to do the same thing Madara did, but on a larger scale. He can literally cut her to pieces without spending much of his TB-level chakra reserves she doesnt possess. 




Aegon Targaryen said:


> Yeah, he will. There's nothing he can do to her she cannot regenerate from.



Cutting her to pieces, cutting her head off, cutting her until her chakra reserves are down so he can kill her etc. Everything works in here. 




Aegon Targaryen said:


> Yeah, you just made this part up. Provide some proof or gtfo.



She nearly died from being bisected. 



Aegon Targaryen said:


> Because decapitating people is Ay's usual fighting style...



He would have done it to Sasuke if not for his Susanoo ribcage. I havent participated in these debates for a very long time yet i still remember these things. Read the manga, dude. Seriously. 




Aegon Targaryen said:


> No ''until''.
> 
> She survived after being bisected as well and sacrificed most of her remaining chakra to heal the other Kage instead of putting herself back, as Katsuyu said she could do.



And nearly died in the process. 




Aegon Targaryen said:


> She won't need luck, considering that she can regenerate before Ay even knows what the fuck happened. I mean, fucking berserker Juugo survived not one but two punches without Ay even knowing he survived...guarantee Tsunade can do the same.



Again - thanks to your headcanon, you can guarantee whatever you want. Doesnt mean you are right though. Is she as durable as Juugo?Or maybe her regeneration speed doesnt s*ck like it did in a fight against Orochimaru?



Aegon Targaryen said:


> Katsuyu can liquefy, so good luck piercing and cutting her then. Katsuyu also can survive being split apart just fine.



I dont care if Katsuyu survives - Raikage can get through Katsuyu if he needs to. That's what i meant. 



Aegon Targaryen said:


> I mean, she survived being torn apart by Mabui's space-time Ninjutsu and being bisected...so yeah, decapitation ain't shit here.



She nearly died after bisection and Mabui's deleportation wasnt strong enough to torn her apart. Ei's chops > Mabui's jutsu.



Aegon Targaryen said:


> Fixed for you. Congratulations on ignoring every single one of Tsunade's feats though.



I'm not ignoring and that's why she doesnt stand a chance in this fight, yet you disagree. That's alright, since the tsunade wank is strong with this one.

Prove that she can react to him and land a single hit. Prove she can survive multiple of his attack, Ninpo Sozo Saisei or not. Prove that she can activate it before Ei lands a hit. Prove that she has comparable chakra reserves. 

Just do it. 




Aegon Targaryen said:


> I mean, it is, though.



Wank wank waaank. 

And nothing more, seriously believing she can beat Ei in close quarters combat. 

The Fourth stylewise is the worst opponent for Tsunade you can imagine. And, as it is known, styles make fights. 

Ei curbstomps with a speedblitz.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## StarWanderer (Aug 1, 2020)

Hi no Ishi said:


> A person who blitzed Manda



You mean, just hit Manda with a sword? Such a speed feat god damn. 



Hi no Ishi said:


> out sped base A4 whom the other Kage regard as fast



Which has never happened.




Hi no Ishi said:


> combo attacked with Backpack A4



Leg kicking your opponent and shooting him with a pistol after that means your leg kick was just as fast as a bullet? How does that prove anything? 



Hi no Ishi said:


> and fought 5 Susano'o in CQC while landing attacks.



And getting stabbed as well. 

Not an impressive feat considering other kages did the same thing and Ei, for example, wasnt stabbed a single time, as well as other Kages, and considering Susanoo's running speed which realy s*cks. 



Hi no Ishi said:


> A person A4 considered of help in a speed battle with Naruto and Killer B



Because it's better to have a help when you are two against one? How does that prove anything? 

And do you remember what happened when Ei used V2 in that confrontation, which isnt restricted in the OP? 



Hi no Ishi said:


> who had their speed compared to the Raikage by Uchiha Madara and is considered a strong Shinobi by that same Madara.



I dont remember Madara comparing Tsunade's speed to that of Killer Bee. Any proof?




Hi no Ishi said:


> Is now pathetic for a Kage level when most don't have any where near those feats and hype?



Yes, because half of your "feats" are no speed feats at all and the other half is hardly impressive in comparison with what Ei did. 

He went toe-to-toe with KCM Naruto and overwhelmed him until Naruto dodged his V2. In his V1, he was able to grab Sasuke - a Sharingan user - and Liger Bomb him, which would have killed Sasuke if not for his Susanoo ribcage. His reaction speed even without V2 is comparable to that of Minato.

Tsunade is not even remotely close speed wise. She cant dodge his attacks, she cant protect herself from them and she cant hit him back. Add there the power of Ei's jutsu, his multiple Nintaijutsu techniques and the fight is done in Raikage's favor. Tsunade doesnt stand a chance in here.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## blk (Aug 1, 2020)

Hi no Ishi said:


> Fanfic.
> If that was even remotely the case he wouldn't have had to block them and a second of looking away would not have got him caught and fucked like it did.



And why not? Blocking is more chakra conservative than using V2 Shunshin, it makes perfect sense in a prolonged battle vs a zombie with unlimited chakra.
He was caught because of Tsunade's sloppiness distracted him, nothing to do with his speed.

V2 A4 is faster than Sasuke can visually see, but Sasuke has no problem visually tracking Susanoo's striking speed.

Therefore V2 A4 >>>> Susanoo striking speed.



> No you said that a person couldn't react faster than they can see which I pointed out was directly contradicted by the manga.
> 
> What are you talking about? Did you get something in your eyes?
> 
> ...



Minato reacted after A4 got super close to him, this is what happened on panel. Whether you think he did it so easily or not, i don't really care.

You haven't provided a scan of Minato reacting by *putting up a physical guard* _before A4 is an inch from his face_.

Could Minato have reacted a bit sooner if he wanted? Probably yes, since the second time when he was more mentally prepared to A4's speed he seemed much less phased by it. But from this to saying that somehow he would have no problem to physically guard or physically dodged, is a far cry and needs evidence.

He threw the volley of Kunais before A4 even used Shunshin 





> Holy crap bro. You just cant be serious.
> 
> The jutsu that your very own Itachi calls his _strongest long range attack_. The one that Madara uses the  tomoe to cause separate cracks in a Double layer shield made out of Karura  and Oonoki's Stone Golem and still got a compliment from it only taking that much damage.
> 
> ...



"A bit smaller"... each Magatama Mads used the first time was almost as big as the whole V2 Susanoo hand.

While the three Magatamas he used vs Tsunade were smaller than the fingers of a smaller Susanoo hand. Stop overrating everything about Tsunade.

A4 is more massive than these three tiny Magatamas and is faster, therefore he will hit harder (f=m*a).

And honestly i don't even understand what you are trying to argue here.
You are literally providing scans of Tsunade getting blown away many meters, stopping only because she crashed in a rock, as a counter to my claim that... she will indeed be blown away if she gets hit hard.
You have proven my point lol.

So i guess we agree here 





> Her being devastated when she can walk of Magatama is wishful thinking.
> 
> And again unless he starts at full power which he only really did against Minato and Madara then even people like Taka can block him. Someone who can combo with lightened  V2 A4 and react faster than Base A4 when exhausted isn't going to have a harder time than Jugo blocking V1 A4.



Of course she will be devastated, A4 is bigger and faster than the 3 Magatamas so he will hit harder.
In fact, A4 without even taking advantage of V2 momentum (since he stopped before chopping it) could bust Ribcage Susanoo.
He could also chop no diff Gyuki's huge hard-bone horn and his own hand (and we know that A4 is more durable than Tsunade from Mabui's lighting transport tech).
A V2 punch was also stated to be able to one shot KCM Naruto who logically should be more durable than Tsunade.

So we have several examples of V2 hits killing/busting/cutting clean things that are >>> Tsunade in durability.

Therefore unless you can prove that Tsunade can consistently dodge a V2 Shunshin, there is no way she can survive this.

Since one V2 chop would literally bisect her even if she miraculously managed to put up a guard with her arms (since she can't dodge it).


Yeah A4 might not start with V2, but the moment he uses it it's over.


----------



## t0xeus (Aug 1, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Tsunade also countered Madara's Fire Style projectiles - which Madara deemed fast enough to finish the Five Kage off - before Mei could use a jutsu. Last time I checked, something very similar was its own fighting style due to the speed involved (the quick draw style used by Mifune). While Tsunade's ''regular'' speed isn't insane, she has a strong Body Flicker not unlike Sasuke for example.


Those were extremely exhausted Gokage. Their reflexes at such low levels of chakra could very well be more similar to the likes of jonin, lmao.

After all we have canon confirmation that lower chakra levels = lower reflexes.

Scaling them to full-on fresh Gokage would be fallacious.


----------



## StarWanderer (Aug 1, 2020)

V1 is already enough. If V1 Ei could easily grab Hebi Sasuke with active 3T Sharingan, overwhelm KCM Naruto in speed contest and possess reaction speed on par with Minato, Tsunade doesnt stand a chance. Too much of a speed difference and a whole lot of fatal Nintaijutsu techniques. One Liger Bomb will be enough to render her unable to defend herself for some time at the very least, during which Ei can land a finishing blow.


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 1, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> Those were extremely exhausted Gokage. Their reflexes at such low levels of chakra could very well be more similar to the likes of jonin, lmao.
> 
> After all we have canon confirmation that lower chakra levels = lower reflexes.
> 
> Scaling them to full-on fresh Gokage would be fallacious.



Tsunade was exhausted as well...your point (she literally loses her form right after blocking this attack)? You do realize she's one of those Kages too, right?

Reactions: Like 4


----------



## Illusory (Aug 1, 2020)

I can’t see how Tsunade is expected to win. A4 even in v1 is quite a bit faster, although it’s not SO bad if Tsunade is using Byakugo (flushing system with chakra). It goes from a huge gap to merely a decent edge. IMO Byakugo Tsunade is probably around v0 A4, who has base Minato reflexes (base Minato’s Hiraishin-restricted speed).

But A4 isn’t *just* faster, as he can cut right through her with his strikes easier than he did his own arm. He’ll be lopping off limbs and heads with any landed swipe. (And he's faster, so he'll land them).

She also gets electrocuted by raiton current if she grabs him, and even if she could land a hit, I’m not convinced it would actually take down A4. The dude had a Chidori-blade snapped off on his neck and a full-power Chidori on his chest barely went a few inches deep. He has next-level durability.

Her best bet is the nerve-scramble, but the verbiage of the technique suggests it wouldn’t work on A4 due to his enormous chakra stores, and chakra armor (electric chakra armor) might nullify the attack itself.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Illusory (Aug 1, 2020)

blk said:


> but Sasuke has no problem visually tracking Susanoo's striking speed.



EMS Sasuke didn’t seem to detect Itachi grabbing him with Susano’o to shield him from the living cave until after the fact. Either way, Sasuke’s reflexes improved as his chakra improved. v4S > v3S > v2S > v1S > v0S MS = CS2 Hebi Sasuke (Karen). His reflexes and stats progressively improved.

And when A4 caught v1S Sasuke, it was after Sasuke had been hit by a few attacks, used a straining eye genjutsu, etc. A4 flashed away mid-Amaterasu, then stayed out of sight for a few moments before trying an attack from behind. Not bad at all, but not the most amazing thing either. Edo Itachi did the same thing to Bee, except Bee received a warning from Itachi just before he connected from behind. And Sasuke literally did the same thing to v1 A4, and connected an attack even, it just didn’t go through the shield. None of them were actual straight-on blitzes or a complete inability to see combat movement.



blk said:


> Could Minato have reacted a bit sooner if he wanted? Probably yes, since the second time when he was more mentally prepared to A4's speed he seemed much less phased by it.



The shunshin Minato reacted to more casually didn’t raise A4’s hair like the first and was therefore likely a bit slower. This makes sense because A4 mentally laid out his plan: the first attempt was just a bait for Minato to switch to a kunai, and A4 would then amp to his full v2 speed to tag Minato at that location before Minato had his bearings and was visually watching A4 again. Not a bad plan honestly.


----------



## MHA massive fan (Aug 1, 2020)

Minato dodging sooner would always have been stupid as that would not result in a counter attack and getting behind A 

why doesn’t anyone ask why didn’t KCm naruto dodge sooner ? 

Kishi thé author literally uses A to parallel between KCm naruto and Minato 

putting them in the exact same situation and them having similar results 

it’s sad when people fight what the author has clearly laid out


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 1, 2020)

MHA massive fan said:


> Minato dodging sooner would always have been stupid as that would not result in a counter attack and getting behind A
> 
> why doesn’t anyone ask why didn’t KCm naruto dodge sooner ?
> 
> ...



Check out the guy arguing Minato isn't a real speedster and that Ay ''didn't have V2'' against KCM Naruto or Minato.


----------



## MHA massive fan (Aug 1, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Check out the guy arguing Minato isn't a real speedster and that Ay ''didn't have V2'' against KCM Naruto or Minato.



Oh wow
Ignore list for such people 
cheers for letting me know

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## J★J♥ (Aug 1, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Check out the guy arguing Minato isn't a real speedster and that Ay ''didn't have V2'' against KCM Naruto or Minato.


Speedster that can't crush a smoking explosive ticket like genin Lee did


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 2, 2020)

StarWanderer said:


> The problem is that you didnt get what i meant in the first place. And since you are not very smart



I'm sorry, bro, are you a literal kindergartner? That ''I know you are but what am I'' argument belongs in kindergarten.

Argue like an adult or you won't be taken seriously.



StarWanderer said:


> i'll break it down for you - skill doesnt matter when your opponent can make 5-10 moves while you can make one



You mean like how Ay made 5-10 moves against a Suigetsu and Juugo recovering from a Genjutsu, right?



StarWanderer said:


> The speed difference is too big in here for her skill to matter



Funny, that's not what we saw against Madara's Susano'o clones. *Tsunade outperformed V2 Ay*.



StarWanderer said:


> If Ei can go toe-to-toe with KCM Naruto using his V1, then Tsunade doesnt stand a chance



Lmao. KCM Naruto wasn't even fighting back, he was just trying to get past Ay.

That's like saying P1 Sasuke kept up with Kakashi in Taijutsu because he forced Kakashi to use both arms lmao.



StarWanderer said:


> Reacting to Killer Bee and holding his own against Might Guy are better speed feats than anything Tsunade has shown



So you admit it's possible for characters to hold their own against or defeat people way faster than them?

Imagine not getting the point after it's being repeated twice.



StarWanderer said:


> Of course it was, for a time. KCM Naruto tried and couldnt beat him speed wise, untill Ei decided to use his V2, during which Tsunade, by the way, couldnt make a single move



The entirety of this is headcanon. Tsunade just didn't choose to intervene until the very last second.



StarWanderer said:


> Yet he was trying to pass in order to help his friends on the battlefield



So? What part of ''KCM Naruto *was not trying to fight, only get past the Raikage*'' do you not get?

All this proves is that Ay's speed is enough to pressure KCM Naruto...and absolutely nothing else. Naruto didn't even use any jutsu.



StarWanderer said:


> He couldnt because of Raikage, who, for a time, outperformed him speed wise and injured his lip



So all Ay with killing intent could accomplish against a KCM Naruto not fighting back is...bruise his lip a bit. Not very impressive.



StarWanderer said:


> While Ei didnt have any injury and Tsunade was stabbed by two Susanoo blades



You mean those Susano'o blades Tsunade literally_ threw aside as if they were nothing and healed from_?

Or you mean* those Susano'o blades that with one split second of distraction nearly killed Ay*?



StarWanderer said:


> How does that one instance proves anything while we dont know how well they fought against Susanoos before that



Because that's the one instance we actually see of the fight? Feats > hearsay and assumption.



StarWanderer said:


> Oh yeah, she knocked down a Susanoo



I mean, it's better than Ay* not *knocking down a Susano'o. Even a child would understand that.



StarWanderer said:


> getting sloppy while Ei wasnt



So you're saying ''sloppy Tsunade'' > V2 Ay? Cool, good to know. Because while ''sloppy Tsunade'' was able to take down a Susano'o, Ay was getting bent backwards against one and ultimately needed Onoki to save his ass.

Or is that why ''sloppy Tsunade'' didn't get killed whereas Ay would have been killed if not for Onoki's help?



StarWanderer said:


> How does that instance prove me wrong? She has no speed feats even remotely close to Ei's caliber and that is true. She is too slow, too sloppy to even react to Ei's moves.
> 
> She might also be worse fighter than Ei, by the way



Feats say you're full of shit, sorry.



StarWanderer said:


> Mei that was nearly standing on her legs at that moment because of her depleeted stamina?



You do realize Tsunade's stamina was depleted too? She literally lost Strength of a Hundred immediately after the attack.



StarWanderer said:


> Featless statists reacted to Madara's Fire Style so why Tsunade cant?



Because it's not the same Fire Style jutsu, genius. Tsunade is also tired and a very similar jutsu from Sasuke was able to burn Itachi's hands (in other words, tagged an incredibly fast ninja).



StarWanderer said:


> Again - for a Kage-level shinobi her speed feats are truly pathetic



Which is why Tsunade is able to counter Kage level summons and move faster than Kage level Ninjutsu

Methinks you're just a low information troll.



StarWanderer said:


> Is there at least one reason to think she is just as fast as Juugo



Yes, common sense and manga feats.



StarWanderer said:


> or that Ei will use the same amount of Raiton chakra that he used against Juugo, or that she will be able to hit Ei at least once?



Yes, common sense and manga feats.



StarWanderer said:


> In a fight against Madara? Only because Ei had to use more powerful chakra and Tsunade didnt have any serious injuries except for the bisection Madara gave to her in the end of that fight



Tsunade used more ''powerful chakra'' as well, that's what Strength of a Hundred is. Tsunade also used a lot of her chakra to protect and empower the other Kage. Finally, she was seriously injured multiple times - she just regenerated from them all.

God damn, you're not worth taking seriously, are you? Imagine not understanding a kid's comic book.

Reactions: Like 5


----------



## MHA massive fan (Aug 2, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> Those were extremely exhausted Gokage. Their reflexes at such low levels of chakra could very well be more similar to the likes of jonin, lmao.
> 
> After all we have canon confirmation that lower chakra levels = lower reflexes.
> 
> Scaling them to full-on fresh Gokage would be fallacious.



Doesn’t it prove that tsunade chakra reserves and stamina >A

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## MHA massive fan (Aug 2, 2020)

Tsunade would outlast based on what Kishi showed , an exhausted A
While tsunade could still react and slap away 5 katon’s
Keep in mind this is after tsunade used her chakra to boost onoki Jinton as well

so A keeps going till he can’t fight anymore and she lands 1 and wins

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## t0xeus (Aug 2, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Tsunade was exhausted as well...your point (she literally loses her form right after blocking this attack)? You do realize she's one of those Kages too, right?


Other Kages are not medics willing to sacrifice their own body and take that attack to their face. The scene mainly highlighted Tsunade's boldness, not speed.


----------



## t0xeus (Aug 2, 2020)

MHA massive fan said:


> Doesn’t it prove that tsunade chakra reserves and stamina >A


----------



## Lyren (Aug 2, 2020)

Illusory said:


> Her best bet is the nerve-scramble, but the verbiage of the technique suggests it wouldn’t work on A4 due to his enormous chakra stores, and chakra armor (electric chakra armor) might nullify the attack itself.


A4 rny speeds up the reflexes only, so at best it will speed up his scrambled nervous system reactions not negate ranshinsho effects which means RNY will hinder his movements even more


----------



## Illusory (Aug 2, 2020)

Lyren said:


> A4 rny speeds up the reflexes only, so at best it will speed up his scrambled nervous system reactions not negate ranshinsho effects which means RNY will hinder his movements even more



Tsunade’s trick works by using electricity to mess with nerves though, which A4 already does. So applying it to abnormal person like p1 Kabuto might not be the same as doing to a walking bijuu that’s pumping insane amounts of lightning all over his body.


----------



## Lyren (Aug 2, 2020)

Illusory said:


> Tsunade’s trick works by using electricity to mess with nerves though, which A4 already does. So applying it to abnormal person like p1 Kabuto might not be the same as doing to a walking bijuu that’s pumping insane amounts of lightning all over his body.


Ranshinsho is not just a lightning jutsu but also a medical one. RnY speeds up body signals while Tsunade MANIPULATES them, so A4 will just speed up ranshinsho effects not negate them.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 2, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> Other Kages are not medics willing to sacrifice their own body and take that attack to their face. The scene mainly highlighted Tsunade's boldness, not speed.



What the fuck does that have to do with Mei blocking an attack with fucking ranged NINJUTSU? Tsunade isn't a normal medic - she literally can break all the rules of normal medical ninja due to having the Strength of a Hundred seal - or have you forgotten that?

Also, this argument is absolute trash. The Kages knew they were in a fight to the death to save humanity itself. Any of them would be willing to sacrifice their own body if it would save everyone else. Ay literally threw an arm away and almost a leg just to kill Sasuke. Onoki was prepared to risk death against Madara. Saying the fucking Five Kage aren't ''bold'' enough to risk their lives is hilarious.

Finally, Tsunade's speed WAS highlighted, by the mere fact of her being compared to Mei.



blk said:


> And why not? Blocking is more chakra conservative than using V2 Shunshin, it makes perfect sense in a prolonged battle vs a zombie with unlimited chakra


Headcanon. No one said Ay had to use V2 Body Flicker (unless he needed it, which makes your argument look worse). Blocking one gigantic creature strong enough to hold you down doesn't make perfect sense when there are four of them present to attack you.



blk said:


> He was caught because of Tsunade's sloppiness



Funny how a ''sloppy Tsunade'' was able to knock down a Susano'o clone while V2 Ay didn't...

You do realize all this does is make her look better, right?



blk said:


> distracted him, nothing to do with his speed.


The fact a fucking _split second of distraction_ is enough for the Susano'o clones to kill him proves it has something to do with his speed.

Also, Deidara and other people have reacted to attacks canonically faster than themselves even while distracted. Maybe you're overhyping the distraction part? Sounds like it to me.



blk said:


> V2 A4 is faster than Sasuke can visually see, but Sasuke has no problem visually tracking Susanoo's striking speed.
> 
> Therefore V2 A4 >>>> Susanoo striking speed.


I'm sorry, when did Sasuke have no problem visually tracking Susano'o's striking speed?

If you're referring to Sasuke using a Susano'o chakra arm to attack Itachi, that doesn't really help your argument as Itachi is the one who reacted and had his attack Sasuke's...



blk said:


> Minato reacted after A4 got super close to him, this is what happened on panel. Whether you think he did it so easily or not, i don't really care



So don't argue otherwise. It doesn't make you look good. Minato wasn't even impressed by Ay's speed. Minato was way more impressed by Bee's Eight Tails trick, if anything.



blk said:


> You haven't provided a scan of Minato reacting by *putting up a physical guard* _before A4 is an inch from his face_



Ah, yes, Minato should try to block a punch from a super strong dude moving at super speed...

Yes, because that's the smart thing to do. Of course.



blk said:


> "A bit smaller"... each Magatama Mads used the first time was almost as big as the whole V2 Susanoo hand.
> 
> While the three Magatamas he used vs Tsunade were smaller than the fingers of a smaller Susanoo hand. Stop overrating everything about Tsunade



Aren't you the one underrating everything about her? Pot, meet kettle.



blk said:


> A4 is more massive than these three tiny Magatamas and is faster, therefore he will hit harder (f=m*a)



Bad argument. You have completely ignored the fact that those three ''tiny Magatamas'' are made of the same material as Susano'o itself and fired by Susano'o (which is strong) itself. Ay's ''mass'' is nothing compared to a substance that's far denser than steel and I have



blk said:


> Of course she will be devastated, A4 is bigger and faster than the 3 Magatamas so he will hit harder.
> In fact, A4 without even taking advantage of V2 momentum (since he stopped before chopping it) could bust Ribcage Susanoo.
> He could also chop no diff Gyuki's huge hard-bone horn and his own hand (and we know that A4 is more durable than Tsunade from Mabui's lighting transport tech).
> A V2 punch was also stated to be able to one shot KCM Naruto who logically should be more durable than Tsunade



Cutting off the horn of a creature who routinely loses tails to shit like Sasuke's Chidori Lance isn't as impressive as you think it is. There's also no proof a V2 punch would one-shot KCM Naruto when Naruto has withstood comparable impacts and shrugged them off in that form.



blk said:


> Yeah A4 might not start with V2, but the moment he uses it it's over.



He almost never starts with V2, so ''might'' is a little specious.

And there's no guarantee he'll get to use it either...

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Orochimaruwantsyourbody (Aug 3, 2020)

Weak people aren’t worth Tsunade’s time. Sorry.


----------



## Jad (Aug 3, 2020)

Still not sure what's stoppping A blitzing Tsunade in half with V2 shunshin.


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 3, 2020)

Jad said:


> Still not sure what's stoppping A blitzing Tsunade in half with V2 shunshin.



Gee, maybe it has something to do with Tsunade being capable of regenerating from being ripped to shreds or cut in half...

Or maybe it has something to do with Ay never using V2 Body Flicker unless he needs it - e.g. against another speedster...

I do love it when people make these hilariously dodgy and easily disprovable arguments though.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## MHA massive fan (Aug 3, 2020)

Jad said:


> Still not sure what's stoppping A blitzing Tsunade in half with V2 shunshin.



no doubt he can do that 
But she will regen from that 
You know the whole can regenerate organs and limbs 
And we have seen her on panel not die from being split in half and being able to heal 4 people while being in that condition 

kishi universe which includes boruto , DB and naruto has shown against regeneration you have to destroy the whole body . I don’t see why tsunade would be different here

Boro, orochimaru , juubimadara are all people who have shown regeneration abilities , none of them made the claim that a jutsu prevents them from death all together 

i would find it baffling that tsunade regen technique would be less effective than theirs while she is claiming she can’t die 

Unless you ignore the Databook which would be silly


----------



## Jad (Aug 3, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Gee, maybe it has something to do with Tsunade being capable of regenerating from being ripped to shreds or cut in half...
> 
> Or maybe it has something to do with Ay never using V2 Body Flicker unless he needs it - e.g. against another speedster...
> 
> I do love it when people make these hilariously dodgy and easily disprovable arguments though.


A is a capable Kage level fighter, whose not dumb enough to fight in a way where he wouldn't use his advantages. He may be hot blooded and wreckless when he found out his brother died, but his a person who made it to the Kage of his village. Thus a capable leader who was made battle leader of the Alliance (I think).

Tsunade barely moves during her healing process of massive injuries.  In fact I don't remember anyone with extensive regenerative abilities doing any sort of moving when healing.

1. Tsunade in Part 1 used Creation Rebirth and stood still after Orochimaru nailed her with his Katana.
2. After Mabui teleporting she stood still while she used Creation Rebirth.
2. In her fight against Madara after stabbed in the stomach and slapped by Magatama, sat down for multiple panels until Madara summoned 25 clones. That's multiple panels and dialogue to heal a thin stab wound through the stomach.
3. Madara when hit by Gaara and lost his arm, stood still as he regenerated.
4. After Night Gai - Juubi Jinchuurikuli Madara stayed still and barely moved until he regenerated fully.
5. When Sakura healed her stab wound - didn't move in any exhaustive manner

If A damages Tsunade in any significant way, she won't be doing much moving. A's reflexes, with his speed and ability to channel raiton piercing energy into his strikes against Tsunade's slower linear movements, whose mindset is to take a strike to make a strike, should lose.

And A with electrified synpases sees a smidge of Tsunade regenerating as he gazes his focus ob her, will blitz her without hesitation again if the first strike wasn't already damming enough.

@Aegon Targaryen Don't neg me the full amount on my first post than call me bro. Uncalled for.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 3, 2020)

Jad said:


> A is a capable Kage level fighter, whose not dumb enough to fight in a way where he wouldn't use his advantages



The dude let Sasuke hit him from behind with his Chidori sword, routinely mistakes people for dead when they aren't (Juugo both times, really), and doesn't really know how much stronger Tsunade is compared to himself based on reputation alone.



Jad said:


> Thus a capable leader who was made battle leader of the Alliance (I think)



This has nothing to do with combat strength. Ay was made Supreme Commander because his village had no ties to Akatsuki.



Jad said:


> Tsunade barely moves during her healing process of massive injuries.  In fact I don't remember anyone with extensive regenerative abilities doing any sort of moving when healing



Fanfiction. Tsunade attacked Madara twice while healing injuries from his Susano'o weapons.



Jad said:


> A's reflexes, with his speed and ability to channel raiton piercing energy into his strikes against Tsunade's slower linear movements, whose mindset is to take a strike to make a strike, should lose



Headcanon - the entirety of this is headcanon. Ay is the one who has linear movements, not Tsunade. This ''take a strike to make a strike'' mindset is also headcanon and while Tsunade can certainly utilize such a strategy, has better CQC ability in general too.



Jad said:


> And A with electrified synpases sees a smidge of Tsunade regenerating as he gazes his focus ob her, will blitz her without hesitation again if the first strike wasn't already damming enough



Funny how those ''electrified synapses'' didn't prevent Ay from getting blocked by Suigetsu who broke out of Genjutsu,



Jad said:


> @Aegon Targaryen Don't neg me the full amount on my first post than call me bro. Uncalled for.



I think you're a respectable poster. Your post, however, was not.


----------



## Itachi x Tenten (Aug 3, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Tsunade gets blitzed and will continue to get blitzed from now to the end of time
> 
> Bitch doesnt even have V1 level feats



Speed feats have no correlation to victory at all.
Take Rock Lee vs Gaara for example. Gaara was getting blitzed around the stage and went as far as to call Lee "inhuman", but look who won at the end. Because Gaara's durability outlasted Lee's 5th gate. She may not be able to react to A4's movements i will give you that much. But Tsunade has a possibility to tank hits from A4, considering she was split into two and still managed to hold a conversation with Orochimaru lol. On the other hand one hit from Tsunade is enough to take A4 down.
Unstoppable force meets immovable object type scenario i guess.


----------



## t0xeus (Aug 4, 2020)

Six Paths Scaling said:


> Speed feats have no correlation to victory at all.
> Take Rock Lee vs Gaara for example. Gaara was getting blitzed around the stage and went as far as to call Lee "inhuman", but look who won at the end. Because Gaara's durability outlasted Lee's 5th gate. She may not be able to react to A4's movements i will give you that much. But Tsunade has a possibility to tank hits from A4, considering she was split into two and still managed to hold a conversation with Orochimaru lol. On the other hand one hit from Tsunade is enough to take A4 down.
> Unstoppable force meets immovable object type scenario i guess.


She definitely has no chance of tanking his hits

Dude was literally carving into.CS2 Juugo's shield arm from stationary position with his fist

And even KCM Naruto expressed amazement at Ei4's strength

Meaning that he can literally bisect her with a punch and destroy her body before she regenerates her torso back (if you believe she can do so)


----------



## Itachi x Tenten (Aug 4, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> She definitely has no chance of tanking his hits
> 
> Dude was literally carving into.CS2 Juugo's shield arm from stationary position with his fist
> 
> ...



The argument that he can bisect her is kind of flawed when its *heavily* implied that he needed a tag team partner to perform double lariat with to simply behead opponents. A4's punches couldnt crack a mere ribcage susanoo from Sasuke, the most basic and weakest version of the susanoo we see. On the other hand Tsunade was able to crack Madara's Full Body susanoo, which is arguably one of the strongest versions of the susanoo we see ever.


----------



## t0xeus (Aug 4, 2020)

Six Paths Scaling said:


> The argument that he can bisect her is kind of flawed when its *heavily* implied that he needed a tag team partner to perform double lariat with to simply behead opponents.


If Ei4's punch drills a deep hole in a super-durable CS2 skin, then the logical conclusion is that Tsunade's torso will be severed in half as it has no special durability.

What you believe is implied about Lariat or not doesn't change what Ei4's punch can do. Two different attacks.



Six Paths Scaling said:


> A4's punches couldnt crack a mere ribcage susanoo from Sasuke, the most basic and weakest version of the susanoo we see. On the other hand Tsunade was able to crack Madara's Full Body susanoo, which is arguably one of the strongest versions of the susanoo we see ever


This part is irrelevant. I did not say Ei4 is physically stronger than Tsunade.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Itachi x Tenten (Aug 4, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> If Ei4's punch drills a deep hole in a super-durable CS2 skin, then the logical conclusion is that Tsunade's torso will be severed in half as it has no special durability.
> 
> What you believe is implied about Lariat or not doesn't change what Ei4's punch can do. Two different attacks.
> 
> ...



He drilled a hole in him because he pinned him against a wall and forced all his body strength into his fist to cave in his CS2 skin. It wasn't just a punch, if that were the case then A4 should be able to crack a basic susanoo ribcage no problem, but he cant.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## t0xeus (Aug 4, 2020)

Six Paths Scaling said:


> He drilled a hole in him because he pinned him against a wall and forced all his body strength into his fist to cave in his CS2 skin.


And he can do the same to Tsunade against the ground even more easily as she is nowhere as durable as CS2 shield. 



Six Paths Scaling said:


> It wasn't just a punch, if that were the case then A4 should be able to crack a basic susanoo ribcage no problem, but he cant.


Baseless. There is no link between piercing CS2 and doing damage to Susanoo.
Plus Ei4's Chops were cracking Susanoo, so you're wrong on that account as well, lol.


----------



## t0xeus (Aug 4, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> What the fuck does that have to do with Mei blocking an attack with fucking ranged NINJUTSU? Tsunade isn't a normal medic - she literally can break all the rules of normal medical ninja due to having the Strength of a Hundred seal - or have you forgotten that?
> 
> Also, this argument is absolute trash. The Kages knew they were in a fight to the death to save humanity itself. Any of them would be willing to sacrifice their own body if it would save everyone else. Ay literally threw an arm away and almost a leg just to kill Sasuke. Onoki was prepared to risk death against Madara. Saying the fucking Five Kage aren't ''bold'' enough to risk their lives is hilarious.
> 
> Finally, Tsunade's speed WAS highlighted, by the mere fact of her being compared to Mei.


Lmao.
The point is that the scene only shows Tsunade's jumping up speed > Mei's jutsu casting speed.

It however does not indicate all the other Kages cannot do the same thing and outpace Mei's casting speed by jumping up. They did not attempt it since they can't afford to facetank Katons like Tsunade can.

So it tells us not much about Tsunade's speed as Mei's casting speed is not that great.


----------



## FlamingRain (Aug 4, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> She definitely has no chance of tanking his hits
> 
> Dude was literally carving into.CS2 Juugo's shield arm from stationary position with his fist
> 
> ...



He only did that because he knocked Jūgo into a wall and never stopped pressing. Without a barrier on the other side of his target he couldn't exert the same force, and while his fist is large it's not the width of a torso anyway. His forearm is long enough, but as Six Paths Scaling said it takes two Lariats to result in decapitation. It would take two to result in bifurcation at the torso as well.

On top of all of this it is blatantly false that Tsunade has no special durability. The Kusanagi did much less to her than Sasuke's non-Chidori-flowed blade did to Danzō and Tensō no Jutsu did much less to her than it did to all but the Raikages themselves. She also tanked a few Magatama despite their ability to punch through Gaara's Karura defense and damage Ohnoki's golem beneath it.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## t0xeus (Aug 4, 2020)

FlamingRain said:


> He only did that because he knocked Jūgo into a wall and never stopped pressing. Without a barrier on the other side of his target he couldn't exert the same force, and while his fist is large it's not the width of a torso anyway. His forearm is long enough, but as Six Paths Scaling said it takes two Lariats to result in decapitation. It would take two to result in bifurcation at the torso as well.


He can press her against the ground



FlamingRain said:


> On top of all of this it is blatantly false that Tsunade has no special durability.


Her feats are taking similar damage from rubbish tossed in her face by CST as her ANBU guards and also getting burned by a low level Katon.
It is blatantly true.


----------



## Speedyamell (Aug 4, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> He can press her against the


A good way of allowing tsunade the opportunity to grab or punch him to oblivion


----------



## t0xeus (Aug 4, 2020)

Speedyamell said:


> A good way of allowing tsunade the opportunity to grab or punch him to oblivion


If it happens quickly then no

Juugo couldnt even fire a chakra missile in time and he didnt have his torso cut open


----------



## Speedyamell (Aug 4, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> If it happens quickly then no
> 
> Juugo couldnt even fire a chakra missile in time and he didnt have his torso cut open


Juugo doesn't have the strength  to restrain A4 and his chakra blasts have considerable charge time unlike CES. So yeah.. A4 gets a hit in and then gets destroyed

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## t0xeus (Aug 4, 2020)

Speedyamell said:


> Juugo doesn't have the strength  to restrain A4 and his chakra blasts have considerable charge time unlike CES. So yeah.. A4 gets a hit in and then gets destroyed


The chakra canons also covered a big area when fired, yet Ei4 dodged them effortlessly. So at best it's up in the air whether Tsunade can land her small fist or feet on Ei4 before he sidesteps.


----------



## Speedyamell (Aug 4, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> The chakra canons also covered a big area when fired, yet Ei4 dodged them effortlessly. So at best it's up in the air whether Tsunade can land her small fist or feet on Ei4 before he sidesteps.


Ay is fast and tsunade knows this. If he pins her to the ground/wall, he gets grabbed and finished off


----------



## t0xeus (Aug 4, 2020)

Speedyamell said:


> Ay is fast and tsunade knows this. If he pins her to the ground/wall, he gets grabbed and finished off


Ei on the other hand knows about Tsunade's high survivability and high physical strength though, so him getting taken out by counterattack makes no sense as he will be extra wary of it coming. And he does have the speed to counter it with.


----------



## MHA massive fan (Aug 4, 2020)

Six Paths Scaling said:


> The argument that he can bisect her is kind of flawed when its *heavily* implied that he needed a tag team partner to perform double lariat with to simply behead opponents. A4's punches couldnt crack a mere ribcage susanoo from Sasuke, the most basic and weakest version of the susanoo we see. On the other hand Tsunade was able to crack Madara's Full Body susanoo, which is arguably one of the strongest versions of the susanoo we see ever.



when did tsunade crack a full body susanoo


----------



## FlamingRain (Aug 4, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> He can press her against the ground



It still won't result in her being bisected and he'd just get himself tagged in the process.



> Her feats are taking similar damage from rubbish tossed in her face by CST as her ANBU guards and also getting burned by a low level Katon.
> It is blatantly true.



Tsunade is the only one we know wasn't protected by Katsuyu as we see the moment the debris is cleared for her and she doesn't have one on her in that panel or any of the following. In the very same panel that she is revealed Katsuyu can be seen on an Anbu.

The only Katon Tsunade was ever hit with was a multi-pronged version of the one Sasuke uses to prep thunderclouds for Kirin. It's not low-level. Even Madara's Katons involving no shape manipulation are intense enough to vaporize ten Suijinheki. That's ten times what Kakuzu did _by combining his Katon and Fūton blasts_. It would only get even more intense with shape-manipulation factored in.

Reactions: Like 5


----------



## t0xeus (Aug 4, 2020)

FlamingRain said:


> It still won't result in her being bisected


It will leave her bisected as a far more durable CS2 shield was getting torn apart by the same move.



FlamingRain said:


> and he'd just get himself tagged in the process.


No reason to believe Tsunade is tagging a speedster who knows about both her resilience and strength.



FlamingRain said:


> Tsunade is the only one we know wasn't protected by Katsuyu as we see the moment the debris is cleared for her and she doesn't have one on her in that panel or any of the following. In the very same panel that she is revealed Katsuyu can be seen on an Anbu.


We also see ANBU next to her with no Katsuyu attached to him.



FlamingRain said:


> The only Katon Tsunade was ever hit with was a multi-pronged version of the one Sasuke uses to prep thunderclouds for Kirin. It's not low-level. Even Madara's Katons involving no shape manipulation are intense enough to vaporize ten Suijinheki. That's ten times what Kakuzu did _by combining his Katon and Fūton blasts_. It would only get even more intense with shape-manipulation factored in.


Madara's technique hit her never hit anyone else so there is no comparison to be made. Talking about Madara's different Katon techniques is obviously not really any kind of evidence for this technique that only has in common the nature affinity they all share.

A better comparison would be to Sasuke's Katon tech that was even bigger and still only left small burning on Itachi's hand.


----------



## MHA massive fan (Aug 4, 2020)

In truth A4 can bisect tsunade 
We saw sasuke use chidori to do that to juubi Madara. A4 breaking off Hachibi horn 
All of that indicates he can 
Now being bisected is damage she can heal from as implied can regen all organ and bone damage


----------



## FlamingRain (Aug 4, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> It will leave her bisected as a far more durable CS2 shield was getting torn apart by the same move.



It will not. _It is stated that it will not_. What happened to Jūgo only demonstrates that you are overrating his CS2 shield.



> No reason to believe Tsunade is tagging a speedster who knows about both her resilience and strength.



He has to either continue to press through with his blow or evade. He can't do both.



> We also see ANBU next to her with no Katsuyu attached to him.



The difference being that that's not the moment the Anbu emerges from the rubble.



> Madara's technique hit her never hit anyone else so there is no comparison to be made. Talking about Madara's different Katon techniques is obviously not really any kind of evidence for this technique that only has in common the nature affinity they all share.
> 
> A better comparison would be to Sasuke's Katon tech that was even bigger and still only left small burning on Itachi's hand.



No comparison to be made and yet somehow you concluded that it was low level. Plain and simple BS.

The comparison I made was much better as it is Madara to Madara and not Madara to an Uchiha he far outclasses, _but even allowing your comparison to Sasuke debunks your claim that Tsunade has no special durability_. Smacking directly > being grazed and yet Tsunade doing the former resulted in receiving a similar injury to Itachi doing the latter, which showcases superior durability on her part.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## t0xeus (Aug 4, 2020)

FlamingRain said:


> It will not. _It is stated that it will not_. What happened to Jūgo only demonstrates that you are overrating his CS2 shield.


There's no statement pertaining to Ei4 being unable to bisect Tsunade as feats suggest he can do it.



FlamingRain said:


> He has to either continue to press through with his blow or evade. He can't do both.


He didn't press against Juugo for some extended period of time tho

He just pierced him with his fist and there is no implication he had to continuously drill through or whatever you're implying

So he just moves his fist through Tsunade's torso and that's it as far as manga suggests



FlamingRain said:


> The difference being that that's not the moment the Anbu emerges from the rubble.


That difference is irrelevant

It's the first panel Kishi showed us of the ANBU and he chose not to include Katsuyu on his shoulder



FlamingRain said:


> No comparison to be made and yet somehow you concluded that it was low level. Plain and simple BS.
> 
> The comparison I made was much better as it is Madara to Madara and not Madara to an Uchiha he far outclasses, _but even allowing your comparison to Sasuke debunks your claim that Tsunade has no special durability_. Smacking directly > being grazed and yet Tsunade doing the former resulted in receiving a similar injury to Itachi doing the latter, which showcases superior durability on her part.


It's low level since it did no meaningful damage to a character who performed on similar grounds in durability to random ANBUs.

That's what the conclusion is built on, so no BS going on here.

Itachi was not coating his arms in CES and punching the flames away, so Tsunade responding differently when she's counterattacking and not simply coming into contact with the Katon is given.


----------



## FlamingRain (Aug 4, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> There's no statement pertaining to Ei4 being unable to bisect Tsunade as feats suggest he can do it.



You can only claim that if you want to argue that Tsunade's body is squishier than random fodder.



> He didn't press against Juugo for some extended period of time tho



Yes he did. He punched Jūgo in the middle of the room and when he slammed into the wall on the other side Jūgo was still maintaining his block. It was only _after_ Suigetsu tried to capitalize on C being distracted by that and got intercepted by Darui that Raikage dug through Jūgo's guard. He had to keep applying pressure after the initial impact to do what he did.



> That difference is irrelevant



No it's not, because it allows for the Anbu to have been protected by Katsuyu and simply left her at that spot when he went to uncover Tsunade.



> It's low level since it did no meaningful damage to a character who performed on similar grounds in durability to random ANBUs.



Said character performing similarly to the Anbu is an entirely unsupportable claim.



> That's what the conclusion is built on, so no BS going on here.



There is definitely BS going on here because the thing your conclusion is built on..._is *nothing*_.



> Itachi was not coating his arms in CES and punching the flames away, so Tsunade responding differently when she's counterattacking and not simply coming into contact with the Katon is given.



CES isn't a protective coating so it doesn't matter that Itachi wasn't doing that.


----------



## Speedyamell (Aug 4, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> Ei on the other hand knows about Tsunade's high survivability and high physical strength though, so him getting taken out by counterattack makes no sense as he will be extra wary of it coming. And he does have the speed to counter it with.


Yes he knows but his only option is still cqc. And if he pins tsunade to the wall/ground like you claimed, he would simply get destroyed.
And if Ay tries to avoid her/play keep away, he's going to get outlasted like he was on panel.
Ay can't win this fight


----------



## t0xeus (Aug 4, 2020)

FlamingRain said:


> You can only claim that if you want to argue that Tsunade's body is squishier than random fodder.


I have no idea what statement are you referring to then

What does a random fodder have to do anything with what you said previously



FlamingRain said:


> Yes he did. He punched Jūgo in the middle of the room and when he slammed into the wall on the other side Jūgo was still maintaining his block. It was only _after_ Suigetsu tried to capitalize on C being distracted by that and got intercepted by Darui that Raikage dug through Jūgo's guard. He had to keep applying pressure after the initial impact to do what he did.


Suigetsu&C&Darui scene could have happened simultanously as Raikage&Jugo stuff happened, panels switching to a different scene doesn't always indicate a time passage

In this case it makes far more sense that no time has passed in the Raikage vs Juugo scene after scene switches back to them

Unless you think they were staring into each others eyes' for that entire time and only after scene cuts back, Juugo realizes it's probably a good time to stop looking at Ei4 and perhaps attack 

Probably not..



FlamingRain said:


> No it's not, because it allows for the Anbu to have been protected by Katsuyu and simply left her at that spot when he went to uncover Tsunade.


There's no implication of that happening. CST rubbish never killed anyone on panel so ANBU could have simply tanked it without any help like Kishi implied when Katsuyu was not drawn anywhere on him.



FlamingRain said:


> Said character performing similarly to the Anbu is an entirely unsupportable claim.


Addressed above.



FlamingRain said:


> There is definitely BS going on here because the thing your conclusion is built on..._is *nothing*_.


Addressed above.



FlamingRain said:


> CES isn't a protective coating so it doesn't matter that Itachi wasn't doing that.


It changes the dynamic of bare skin touching chakra fire into skin coated with chakra touching chakra fire, so it does play a role.

Same way that it plays a role in protecting her fists/legs whenever she produces Susanoo-busting strength from them. Susanoo busting strength being a D/C that her bare skin would get destroyed (as one can tell from her durability feats).


----------



## FlamingRain (Aug 4, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> I have no idea what statement are you referring to then



Lariat requiring an equal Lariat on the opposite side to result in decapitation.



> What does a random fodder have to do anything with what you said previously



The statements about Lariat are in regards to its use on fodder, not durability freaks.



> Suigetsu&C&Darui scene could have happened simultanously as Raikage&Jugo stuff happened



No it couldn't have as C missed Suigetsu approaching him _because_ he was watching Raikage punch Jūgo.



> In this case it makes far more sense that no time has passed in the Raikage vs Juugo scene after scene switches back to them
> 
> Unless you think they were staring into each others eyes' for that entire time and only after scene cuts back, Juugo realizes it's probably a good time to stop looking at Ei4 and perhaps attack



What happened was that Jūgo focused on trying to hold his guard up until it was crushed, then decided to attack.



> There's no implication of that happening.



All you can say is that there is no panel showcasing that, but there is no panel showing the Anbu surviving without Katsuyu's cover so you get nowhere doing that. Kishi not drawing Katsuyu over him doesn't imply it any more than Kishi not drawing him getting back on his feet implies he just stood there and remained unphased as a wave of debris hit him.



> CST rubbish never killed anyone on panel so ANBU could have simply tanked it without any help like Kishi implied when Katsuyu was not drawn anywhere on him.



It was thanks to Katsuyu that it never killed anyone.



> Addressed above.
> 
> 
> Addressed above.



You wish.



> It changes the dynamic of bare skin touching chakra fire into skin coated with chakra touching chakra fire, so it does play a role.
> 
> Same way that it plays a role in protecting her fists/legs whenever she produces Susanoo-busting strength from them. Susanoo busting strength being a D/C that her bare skin would get destroyed (as one can tell from her durability feats).



It does not because CES doesn't involve coating oneself in Chakra.

Tsunade's strikes did worse to Susano'o than Raikage's Raigyaku Suihei, which he could already sever his own arm with, so your logic in the second sentence would entail that Madara's Katons are so powerful they'd one-shot even the durability freak that is the Raikage or that Tsunade withstands no damage whatsoever (which we already saw wasn't the case).


----------



## blk (Aug 4, 2020)

@Aegon Targaryen @FlamingRain

- A4's chops have cut clean his own body, which is by statements and feats more durable than Tsunade
- A4's chops have cut clean Gyuki's huge horn and busted Susanoo, both of which are more durable than Tsunade
----------
- Therefore (especially from premise 1 which is a direct proof that his chops can cut without issues someone directly _stated and_ _shown_ to be more durable than her), A4's chops can cut through Tsunade's body.

Since we also know that at the very absolute least Tsunade *cannot dodge *a V2 chop, it follows that even if she were to miraculously put up a guard against it she would still be bisected by A4's chop.

"b-but she survived bisection"
Do you think A4 will just stand there and watch her summon Katsuyu, watch the slug put the body parts together and then wait for her to heal? 

Or will he simply stomp her defenseless head in the ground to finish her?

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## FlamingRain (Aug 4, 2020)

blk said:


> @Aegon Targaryen @FlamingRain
> 
> - A4's chops have cut clean his own body, which is by statements and feats more durable than Tsunade
> - A4's chops have cut clean Gyuki's huge horn and busted Susanoo, both of which are more durable than Tsunade
> ...



I'm a bit confused as to why you quoted me unless you skipped reading my other posts in this thread/got them mixed up with someone else's.


----------



## blk (Aug 4, 2020)

FlamingRain said:


> I'm a bit confused as to why you quoted me unless you skipped reading my other posts in this thread/got them mixed up with someone else's.



I didn't read everything but i noticed you were wanking Tsunade's durability, so i just quoted you.


----------



## FlamingRain (Aug 4, 2020)

blk said:


> I didn't read everything but i noticed you were wanking Tsunade's durability, so i just quoted you.



Saying Tsunade has high durability is just an acknowledgment of a rather large pile of evidence, not wank.

If anyone's durability is being wanked it is Jūgo's by t0x.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Itachi x Tenten (Aug 4, 2020)

Six Paths Scaling said:


> He drilled a hole in him because he pinned him against a wall and forced all his body strength into his fist to cave in his CS2 skin. It wasn't just a punch, if that were the case then A4 should be able to crack a basic susanoo ribcage no problem, but he cant.





t0xeus said:


> And he can do the same to Tsunade against the ground even more easily as she is nowhere as durable as CS2 shield.
> 
> 
> Baseless. There is no link between piercing CS2 and doing damage to Susanoo.
> Plus Ei4's Chops were cracking Susanoo, so you're wrong on that account as well, lol.



Actually, you're counter-arguing yourself, because you were the first one who stated that A4 punched thru Jugo's CS2 shield, and now you're saying its piercing damage? 

So you're basically agreeing with me that A4 can not punch thru the weakest version of a susanoo and he cant punch thru CS2 shield, but in fact needing to pin Jugo against a wall and pierce him with his lightning cloak. (This will not affect Tsunade because of Byakugo Seal's mitotic regeneration and her high ability to tank damage.)

Which version of A4 was cracking susanoo's? Dont tell me when its he was getting a *significant* speed amp from Onoki, because he's not able to do it on his own.


----------



## blk (Aug 4, 2020)

FlamingRain said:


> Saying Tsunade has high durability is just an acknowledgment of a rather large pile of evidence, not wank.
> 
> If anyone's durability is being wanked it is Jūgo's by t0x.



Not really.

The fact remains that Tsunade cannot take A4's chops or punches.

He busted and cutted through things more durable than her (like himself), so that proves without a doubt that she can't take his hits.


----------



## FlamingRain (Aug 4, 2020)

blk said:


> Not really.



Yes really.



> The fact remains that Tsunade cannot take A4's chops or punches.
> 
> He busted and cutted through things more durable than her (like himself), so that proves without a doubt that she can't take his hits.



He has not busted anything more durable than her without Raigyaku Suihei and the whole Double Lariat story is indicative of him lacking the ability to.


----------



## Lyren (Aug 4, 2020)

Tsunade sustained Yasaka no Magatama in her whole chest without notable injuries. (Since the injury of the sword that stabbed her didn't heal while it occured before Magatama attacked her) 

Tsunade punch incinerated half of Madara body on contact while he blocked V2 A4 punch in base without a single injury


NBD : She isn't durable at all and Raikage kills her with a punch

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Siskebabas (Aug 4, 2020)

FlamingRain said:


> Yes really.
> 
> 
> 
> He has not busted anything more durable than her without Raigyaku Suihei and the whole Double Lariat story is indicative of him lacking the ability to.


So you're saying that a4 need raigyaku suihei to bust tsunade, what the hell, is she susanno now? Whats next she moves at v2 speed too?


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 4, 2020)

blk said:


> @Aegon Targaryen @FlamingRain
> 
> - A4's chops have cut clean his own body, which is by statements and feats more durable than Tsunade
> - A4's chops have cut clean Gyuki's huge horn and busted Susanoo, both of which are more durable than Tsunade
> ...



Ah, yes, because trying to decapitate or bisect his opponents is a common strategy for Ay.



blk said:


> Do you think A4 will just stand there and watch her summon Katsuyu, watch the slug put the body parts together and then wait for her to heal?



Who said Tsunade needs Katsuyu to put her body parts together? There's a reason Madara needed to drop a tree between both halves of her body lmao - so they wouldn't just reattach themselves together. Therefore even if Ay decapitates her, she can heal.

Also, who told you Tsunade will just heal while Ay can still see her? 

The Raikage has no knowledge on this power and will likely have his back turned, mistaking her for dead. Or have you forgotten that Ay thought he killed Sage Juugo - twice - *and was wrong each time*? 

Also, what's Ay going to do when the slugs are already there? Trying to attack Tsunade will be tricky as this will leave him open to the slugs melting him with acid blasts from multiple directions (it's also not like Ay can kill the slugs or anything).


----------



## blk (Aug 4, 2020)

FlamingRain said:


> Yes really.
> 
> 
> 
> He has not busted anything more durable than her without Raigyaku Suihei and the whole Double Lariat story is indicative of him lacking the ability to.



Why would a V2 punch have magically less force than a V2 chop 

Anyway, even if that was the case i assume you agree that a V2 chop one shots her?



Aegon Targaryen said:


> Ah, yes, because trying to decapitate or bisect his opponents is a common strategy for Ay.



A4 used chops against Sasuke, Gyuki and Madara. 
Seems like he goes for it just as much as everything else.
It's not that he goes for bisection of decapitation specifically (although he did that vs Kisame and Minato), but that bisection/decapitation is what will happen to Tsunade when A4 will use a V2 chop against her.



Aegon Targaryen said:


> There's a reason Madara needed to drop a tree between both halves of her body lmao - so they wouldn't just reattach themselves together. Therefore even if Ay decapitates her, she can heal.


----------



## FlamingRain (Aug 4, 2020)

blk said:


> Why would a V2 punch have magically less force than a V2 chop



The chop would be more effective because that force is applied along a narrower surface area.

Cutting/penetrative attacks faring better than blunt attacks is so common I'm surprised you're even asking this question. If you're overlooking that too then _I'm_ the one who ought to be using the pepe smilies.



> Anyway, even if that was the case i assume you agree that a V2 chop one shots her?



I agree that he could cut through her with it. I wouldn't agree that it one-shots her though, and you can check my replies to LostSelf in this thread to see why I don't think he would just proceed to win from there regardless.


----------



## Gitagon (Aug 4, 2020)

I don't know what's the debate all about. Didn't we all read the same manga.

A4 is faster and more durable with cloak but his strength is nothing in front of Tsunade. And his lightning cloak is definitely not Susanoo level so if he gets tagged even once he gets shattered just like that Madara's Susanoo. To say that a fight would happen between Kage level opponents where he doesn't get tagged is a joke. He will get tagged and once that happens it's over. Tsunade might take more damage in the fight but she has regen so her stamina and survivability is obviously higher.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## ThirdRidoku (Aug 4, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> This doesnt make any sense, so gai suddenly invalidates every Cqc because they are not as good as him? Does that sound logical to you?
> Most of fighters would get fucked in a4 position, even obito could not because guess what hiraishin users can reposition themselves almost instantly. And juugo was thrashed no diff versus a4 and obviously v1 can vary between speeds as seen versus kcm naruto.




Skill  =/= strength or speed. He overpowered Juugo, he didn't outskill him dude lol. 

And the last part is an excuse, because Base Bee's tentacle had time to save A4. It means A4 lacks dexterity, or he would have dodged without needing to thank Bee for the help.




blk said:


> As @ATastyMuffin pointed out, that's not Tsunade actual raw strength.
> 
> A4, after stopping his V2 Shunshin, busted through_* Sasuke's trash tier *_Ribcage Susanoo. This means that a V2 punch that actually takes advantage of the insane acceleration will have a ton more force behind it.
> Tsunade will take heavy damage from that if not die directly.
> ...





ATastyMuffin said:


> That's not how it works
> 
> It would apply if Tsunade's strength feats derived from raw strength, but they don't. CES is gathering chakra at the point of contact and releasing it in a single instant
> 
> Because of that, Tsunade doesn't need to be as durable as her own punches, as demonstrated when she was explicitly << base A4 in durability yet cracked wide open Madara's Susano'o, which neg-diff tanked a Raigyaku Suihei that A4's arm couldn't




ALL NINJAS ARE USING CHAKRA ENHANCED STRENGTH


Tsunade releasing all the chakra into her fist  at the point of impact shows good punching technique. Even in real life, you need to coordinate many muscle groups into your fast moving fist in an instant to maximize the damage. Tsunade/ Sakura are just better at coordinating the chakra for  their CES strikes  then everyone else.

And the fact that she makes physical contact with her fists and legs on her targets shows she is still subject to Newton Third Law, she isn't releasing chakra beams rofl.

And scaling Base Tsunade to Byakugao is fallacious. She showed much durability feats in Byakugao compared to Base.

She didn't heal the  yasaka matagamas, she tanked them straight up. what she healed was the sword stab. EACH INDIVIDUAL matagama pierced through Gaara's sand and Ohnoki's sand golem  and almost came through to the other side.

Tsunade is durable, period. Not as durable as A4 but it doesn't matter. She harmed a defense that isn't much less durable than A4 with minimal damage to herself,  a defense A4 can't harm, and she did it with minimal damage to herself.  A4's strength isn't enough to one shot, that's crazy talk man lol.
Even I am not saying Tsunade one shots him. But each hit is gonna do damage and he is gonna feel it. He isn't taking that many punches. Each punch chips away at him a lot. Think of it like Gamabunta against Shukaku's P1 Wind bullets. There was a limited number he could take before it was lights out.


and she further proved it by tanking her own punches, which are stronger than A4's chops which did fuck all to the same Susano'o that Tsunade cracked on panel. Hell, A4's punch did nothing to harm *Madara's regular body *which also proves that even when moving at max speed his Damage output is much weaker than Tsunade's.

You're wanking Sasuke's rib cage susano'o, its trash tier. Madara is more durable than it


 So yeah, no none of his punches are one shotting Tsunade. Even his chops were much weaker than her punches despite the fact a chop has lesser surface area than a punch (Pressure = Force/Area).

His chops would pierce her but definitely not all the way through, they would get stuck in her body,  but she heals them and counter punches him.

A4 is WEAKER THAN TSUNADE. He can't push her back more than a few inches at best with his max speed. A4 broke Sasuke's fodder Susano'o, while tsunade smashed Madara's which has better durability feats and was larger. Tsunade stops him in his tracks, period. And like I said, A4 has high speed but his dexterity is ass. He ran into walls at FKS when trying to blitz Obito and  the same thing happened against KCM Naruto. He needed to be saved by Base Bee's tentacle since he wasn't agile enough to evade Minato's strike to his back. A4 isn't rock Lee/Gai. He has one linear attack and from there Tsunade can counter punch him. He puts his all into his top speed and if it fails he gets easily countered, he doesn't have the ability to combination blitz like Lee did to Gaara, he lacks agility over short distances.


And you're overrating Gyuki whose tentacles are less durable than kunai and shuriken given how easily they pierce him. Minato who has lesser physical strength than Tsunade easily pierced Gyuki's tentacle with a kunai. Nothing suggests his horn is much more durable.
Gyuki tanked the bijuu dama because Bijuu dama blast sphere >>>>> surface area than a kunai tip or A4's hand chop. Even though Gyuki was at epicenter, his surface area is still much smaller than that of the explosion, he didn't take the full yield. This is the same reason why a flea can be tank being stomped by your boots but a beetle wouldn't despite the latter being more durable. the flea has a much smaller surface area compared to the boot than the flea does, so it takes less damage.

You need to take into account surface area. A bullet from a handgun has the same KE as a boxer's punch, but the bullet is far more damaging and lethal because of its much tinier surface area.

Again, Danzo's kunai broke on a Susano'o WEAKER Than Madara's, while Tsunade's arm and fist were intact after her punch even though she did visible Damage to Susano'o.  She easily replicates all of A4's strength feats on Gyuki, and in general.


Tsuande isn't dying from any of A4's individual attacks, let alone losing a battle of attrition with him lol.

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## Stonaem (Aug 4, 2020)

blk said:


> @Aegon Targaryen @FlamingRain
> 
> - A4's chops have cut clean his own body, which is by statements and feats more durable than Tsunade
> - A4's chops have cut clean Gyuki's huge horn and busted Susanoo, both of which are more durable than Tsunade
> ...


I like this, but . . .

1. Clashing objects
Remember Sakura vs Kaguya? If one object is moving opposite to another, one of them is gonna break or be pushed aside. So its cleanly possible Ei(4) intercepted the horn similar to Sakura vs Kaguya. 

1.2. Split durability 
Soft targets are better against blunt force (Katsuyu vs CST), hard target are better against sharp object (Susy vs Lightning Straight vs Liger Bomb), elastic targets are good against both, but weak to energy (Golden Silk Webs vs Katana vs Ama). Human body has a degree of.elasticity that allows someone to effectively deflect a physical attack. Remember why that combo technique requires equal power from both sides.

2. Tsuny won't be standing there
She'll be moving about and can move away from a chop mid-action. So,even though Ei(4) can indeed cut through flesh, its very difficult against a.target with controlled motion. As proven by the technicality of Double Lariat.


----------



## Shazam (Aug 4, 2020)

Francyst said:


> Blitz



You thinking Tsunade blitzes? Bold


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 4, 2020)

ThirdRidoku said:


> Gyuki tanked the bijuu dama because Bijuu dama blast sphere >>>>> surface area than a kunai tip or A4's hand chop. Even though Gyuki was at epicenter, his surface area is still much smaller than that of the explosion, he didn't take the full yield. This is the same reason why a flea can be tank being stomped by your boots but a beetle wouldn't despite the latter being more durable. the flea has a much smaller surface area compared to the boot than the flea does, so it takes less damage.



Excellent post in general, but the way I see it, Tailed Beasts just seem to be exceptionally good at withstanding TBBs.


----------



## t0xeus (Aug 5, 2020)

FlamingRain said:


> Lariat requiring an equal Lariat on the opposite side to result in decapitation.





FlamingRain said:


> The statements about Lariat are in regards to its use on fodder, not durability freaks.


I never brought up Ei4 using Lariat on Tsunade though?

We're talking about his punches.



FlamingRain said:


> No it couldn't have as C missed Suigetsu approaching him _because_ he was watching Raikage punch Jūgo.


Fair, but looking back I actually noticed his fist is already  from the initial impact. 

So Ei4's PUNCH put a pretty deep hole into the CS2 shield like I was saying. He did not drill or continuously put pressure on it.



FlamingRain said:


> What happened was that Jūgo focused on trying to hold his guard up until it was crushed, then decided to attack.


Addressed above.



FlamingRain said:


> All you can say is that there is no panel showcasing that, but there is no panel showing the Anbu surviving without Katsuyu's cover so you get nowhere doing that. Kishi not drawing Katsuyu over him doesn't imply it any more than Kishi not drawing him getting back on his feet implies he just stood there and remained unphased as a wave of debris hit him.


Actually there is panel of ANBU surviving it. Just not under the debris. Your differentiation makes no sense.

I can also dishonestly claim that Tsunade had Katsuyu on her but Katsuyu left her before Tsunade was uncovered behind the debris. 
Or that Tsunade has Katsuyu perhaps on her back, hiding from the camera angle. 



FlamingRain said:


> It was thanks to Katsuyu that it never killed anyone.


Sure, outside of ANBU and Tsunade who survived without Katsuyu's help.



FlamingRain said:


> You wish.






FlamingRain said:


> It does not because CES doesn't involve coating oneself in Chakra.


It quite literally involves coating the area one wishes to attack with chakra, lol.



FlamingRain said:


> Tsunade's strikes did worse to Susano'o than Raikage's Raigyaku Suihei, which he could already sever his own arm with, so your logic in the second sentence would entail that Madara's Katons are so powerful they'd one-shot even the durability freak that is the Raikage or that Tsunade withstands no damage whatsoever (which we already saw wasn't the case).


I am not following here tbh.

All I said is that if Clone Tsunade punched OG Tsunade into her knuckles, OG Tsunade's knuckles would turn to red mist.
Yet OG Tsunade is capable of exerting the same force from her own hands without doing any damage to her knuckles.
Thus CES serving as a coating for the user is given.

That's all I meant there in the 2nd sentence.

Not sure how does your Katon scaling relate to this.


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 5, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> The point is that the scene only shows Tsunade's jumping up speed > Mei's jutsu casting speed.



Finally you concede this point. At last. Looks like we're getting somewhere. 



t0xeus said:


> It however does not indicate all the other Kages cannot do the same thing and outpace Mei's casting speed by jumping up. They did not attempt it since they can't afford to facetank Katons like Tsunade can



Sorry, bro, but this right here is what we call a fallacy. I don't have to prove a negative (for that matter, I _do_ think a fully amped Ay could physically intercept the fireballs as he's obviously faster than Tsunade according to the manga - no proof the others can though). The other Kages are arguable.



t0xeus said:


> So it tells us not much about Tsunade's speed as Mei's casting speed is not that great.



It kind of does, considering that Mifune was literally a big deal because he could intercept people's handseals using his sword style. Tsunade accomplished something similar vis-a-vis her fellow Kages, while all of them were weakened. Sasuke's version of this jutsu was able to tag Itachi and burn his hands a bit before he could move out of the way in time.


----------



## Mawt (Aug 5, 2020)

I view A4 to be the stronger of the two in an overall sense, but a match between them could go either way depending on knowledge.

Since this is reputation knowledge, it does Tsuande more good than it does A4. A4's known to be speedy by reputation according to Minato.  Tsunade's reputation as one of the Sannin and being a Hokage is vague. Nobody actually knows about her regeneration techniques since she developed them in secret where not even Orochimaru knew about them. 

A4 tends not to go V2 immediately against people unless they're super fast themselves (Minato) or if their names literally plunge the Shinobi world into chaos (Madara). He didn't use V2 immediately against Sasuke despite Sasuke being the guy who killed a Sannin, killed Deidara, and kidnapped his brother. He didn't use V2 immediately against Naruto who had learned to control Kurama's Chakra. It makes sense that he wouldn't immediately use V2 here seeing as how it costs an enormous amount of Chakra and it isn't worth it unless it's used against a serious threat. Unless if A4 is given knowledge on Tsunade's strength and regen, he has no reason to use V2 right off the bat.

V1 by itself is fast, but not fast enough to blitz Tsunade. The likes of Jugo could react to it. Sasuke could outmaneuver it at *point-blank range* (Sharingan of course helped thanks to precognition but he also required the speed to physically move out of the way). SM Naruto could do the same thing against the other Raikage who had even more range. Tsunade should at least be able to put up a guard,  at which point she can grab ahold of A4 and kill/severely injure him with a strike.

"V1 A4 could pressure KCM Naruto though!" The context of him pressuring KCM Naruto was that Naruto *wasn't using his full speed.* Naruto previously used his full speed against Kisame but he couldn't actually control it well.  The fight against A4 consisted of Naruto *not* using his full speed the entire time. He gradually upped his speed  to the point where he could skillfully use his flash Shunshin to get past him.  The narrative is Naruto *gaining control* over his flash Shunshin after some time, not Naruto using his flash Shunshin the entire time which he previously couldn't control and then somehow achieving some new level of speed on top his flash Shunshin which he couldn't control beforehand. That makes no sense.

Reactions: Like 4


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 5, 2020)

Mawt said:


> I view A4 to be the stronger of the two in an overall sense, but a match between them could go either way depending on knowledge.
> 
> Since this is reputation knowledge, it does Tsuande more good than it does A4. A4's known to be speedy by reputation according to Minato.  Tsunade's reputation as one of the Sannin and being a Hokage is vague. Nobody actually knows about her regeneration techniques since she developed them in secret where not even Orochimaru knew about them.
> 
> ...



Excellent post, dawg.


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 5, 2020)

blk said:


> A4 used chops against Sasuke, Gyuki and Madara
> Seems like he goes for it just as much as everything else



His first move against Sasuke was an Elbow and his second was a Liger Bomb. His first move against Madara was a punch.

None of this helps your case. We don't even know how Ay originally approached Gyuki, a monster who even his father couldn't kill.



blk said:


> It's not that he goes for bisection of decapitation specifically (although he did that vs Kisame and Minato), but that bisection/decapitation is what will happen to Tsunade when A4 will use a V2 chop against her



Cool. That's not a starter move, though, and it won't put Tsunade down for good even if it hits.



blk said:


>



I'm sorry, are you lost? That's so obvious.


----------



## t0xeus (Aug 5, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Finally you concede this point. At last. Looks like we're getting somewhere.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fair, I concede that it makes Tsunade above average in speed as she DID indeed blitz Mei's casting speed (not handseals tho, her handseals were finished and she looks that she is about to spit the Suiton).


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 5, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> Fair, I concede that it makes Tsunade above average in speed as she DID indeed blitz Mei's casting speed (not handseals tho, her handseals were finished and she looks that she is about to spit the Suiton).



All right. Glad we could work that out


----------



## StarWanderer (Aug 5, 2020)

Lyren said:


> Ranshinsho is not just a lightning jutsu but also a medical one. RnY speeds up body signals while Tsunade MANIPULATES them, so A4 will just speed up ranshinsho effects not negate them.



Good luck hitting him in order to use this jutsu, or activate it before Ei's blitz.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## FlamingRain (Aug 5, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> I never brought up Ei4 using Lariat on Tsunade though?
> 
> We're talking about his punches.



You didn't have to because a mere punch will not do what two Lariats are required for.

Decapitaton = two Lariats > one Lariat > punch.



> Fair, but looking back I actually noticed his fist is already  from the initial impact.



They've already crashed into the wall so that's not the initial impact. Jūgo's arm is still raised up in front of his torso and there's no blood trickling off of it so obviously Raikage did continue applying pressure or there would be no blood or indentation in Jūgo's chest afterward.



> Addressed above.



You keep saying this without actually having done it.



> Actually there is panel of ANBU surviving it. Just not under the debris. Your differentiation makes no sense.



No there isn't.



> I can also dishonestly claim that Tsunade had Katsuyu on her but Katsuyu left her before Tsunade was uncovered behind the debris.
> 
> Or that Tsunade has Katsuyu perhaps on her back, hiding from the camera angle.



And I can just point out that the details we have leave no room for such an interpretation like they do for the Anbu having been protected, so who really cares?



> It quite literally involves coating the area one wishes to attack with chakra, lol.



This is not mentioned in _any_ description of it nor is it shown.



> I am not following here tbh.
> 
> All I said is that if Clone Tsunade punched OG Tsunade into her knuckles, OG Tsunade's knuckles would turn to red mist.
> Yet OG Tsunade is capable of exerting the same force from her own hands without doing any damage to her knuckles.
> ...



It doesn't matter if that's all you meant. _It's not all your logic would mean_. Tsunade's attacks are a level above those capable of injuring Raikage, so a coating of Chakra capable of protecting Tsunade's body from the backlash of her own strikes would have _easily_ protected her from being damaged by the Katon unless said Katon was so stupidly powerful it could one-shot even Raikage. The idea that there is such a Chakra-coating involved in CES would necessitate that the Katon was at some _insanely high_ level, not a low-level like you insist.

You've made up something inconsistent with your own claim in order to defend said claim.


----------



## Siskebabas (Aug 5, 2020)

Mawt said:


> I view A4 to be the stronger of the two in an overall sense, but a match between them could go either way depending on knowledge.
> 
> Since this is reputation knowledge, it does Tsuande more good than it does A4. A4's known to be speedy by reputation according to Minato.  Tsunade's reputation as one of the Sannin and being a Hokage is vague. Nobody actually knows about her regeneration techniques since she developed them in secret where not even Orochimaru knew about them.
> 
> ...


Gotta disagree here with premise that naruto wasnt using top speed versus raikage. Both raikage and naruto put insane ammounts of chakra into their flickers that they move at abnormal speeds, to everyone who are not that fast would look at they literally flashing. His shunshin wasnt the fastest againts Kisame as it would not make sense againts raikage to use slower one when naruto himself says that he has to use more speed and failling anyways. Naruto at that point didnt have developed speeds of v2, both supported by yamato that hes not on 4th level and couldnt get past raikage. Only after emotional and motivational bs did he finally surpassed raikage which would both be thematically and logically consistent


----------



## Orochimaruwantsyourbody (Aug 5, 2020)

“N...no...Hokage-Sama, I’m sorry! Please don’t turn me into m-mist!”

*Splat*


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 5, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> Naruto at that point didnt have developed speeds of v2, both supported by yamato that hes not on 4th level and couldnt get past raikage



Pretty sure Yamato was referring to Naruto's control being below the Fourth's, not his speed being lower


----------



## MHA massive fan (Aug 5, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Pretty sure Yamato was referring to Naruto's control being below the Fourth's, not his speed being lower



Its unclear 
Could refer to control or speed kishi did not make it explicitly clear 

possibly speed , because when BM naruto deflected BD kakashi still thought of Minato


----------



## FlamingRain (Aug 5, 2020)

MHA massive fan said:


> Its unclear
> Could refer to control or speed kishi did not make it explicitly clear
> 
> possibly speed , because when BM naruto deflected BD kakashi still thought of Minato



Yamato said Naruto didn't have the Fourth's skills yet, and only _after_ Naruto himself admits to having gotten himself stuck.

Seems pretty obvious it's about control.


----------



## Siskebabas (Aug 5, 2020)

Potato tomato, those can be used interchangeablly, as having beter control allows you go faster, you guys complicating this more then it needs to be


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 5, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> Potato tomato, those can be used interchangeablly



No, they cannot. Control is how well you use your speed, it's a separate thing from how fast your actual speed is.

KCM Naruto has better speed than SM Naruto but SM has better control over his speed, for instance.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Siskebabas (Aug 5, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> No, they cannot. Control is how well you use your speed, it's a separate thing from how fast your actual speed is.
> 
> KCM Naruto has better speed than SM Naruto but SM has better control over his speed, for instance.


Yet it context given we know naruto has not unlocked his top speed, as that would make entire raikage being fastest person redundant. We know he couldnt get past raikage, he himself says he has up the speed and it would not make sense to slower then he actually can

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 5, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> Yet it context given we know naruto has not unlocked his top speed, as that would make entire raikage being fastest person redundant. We know he couldnt get past raikage, he himself says he has up the speed and it would not make sense to slower then he actually can



Who said Naruto has not unlocked his top speed? Dude was compared to the Yellow Flash against Kisame and after dodging Ay's punch. The only issue was whether Naruto could control his speed, which is why Yamato made that statement to begin with. During the Ay fight, he learned to more or less do just that, hence him being allowed to go through.


----------



## Mawt (Aug 5, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> Gotta disagree here with premise that naruto wasnt using top speed versus raikage. Both raikage and naruto put insane ammounts of chakra into their flickers that they move at abnormal speeds, to everyone who are not that fast would look at they literally flashing. His shunshin wasnt the fastest againts Kisame as it would not make sense againts raikage to use slower one when naruto himself says that he has to use more speed and failling anyways. Naruto at that point didnt have developed speeds of v2, both supported by yamato that hes not on 4th level and couldnt get past raikage. Only after emotional and motivational bs did he finally surpassed raikage which would both be thematically and logically consistent


He's compared to Minato both when he blitzes Kisame and when he dodges A4.  The struggle Naruto had was being able to *control* that level of speed, hence why he gets his leg stuck in the wall and Yamato notes that his skills aren't on Minato's level. We know this isn't in reference to speed because he wouldn't be compared to Minato by Bee in the first place if that were the case.

Naruto using his full speed which he wasn't able to control against A4 makes no sense. The fact that he states he'll up his speed actually supports my case because you can't up your speed if you're already using your maximum speed, unless Naruto can magically remove his limits or something.

Naruto and A4 were moving at high speeds but not at their max. A4 stuck to V1 and Naruto didn't use flash Shunshin. We know he didn't use flash Shunshin because he's shown using it in the final moment to dodge V2 A4 and he is compared to Minato exactly like he was compared to Minato when he blitzed Kisame. Imo the parallels are obvious.


----------



## Siskebabas (Aug 5, 2020)

Mawt said:


> He's compared to Minato both when he blitzes Kisame and when he dodges A4.  The struggle Naruto had was being able to *control* that level of speed, hence why he gets his leg stuck in the wall and Yamato notes that his skills aren't on Minato's level. We know this isn't in reference to speed because he wouldn't be compared to Minato by Bee in the first place if that were the case.
> 
> Naruto using his full speed which he wasn't able to control against A4 makes no sense. The fact that he states he'll up his speed actually supports my case because you can't up your speed if you're already using your maximum speed, unless Naruto can magically remove his limits or something.
> 
> Naruto and A4 were moving at high speeds but not at their max. A4 stuck to V1 and Naruto didn't use flash Shunshin. We know he didn't use flash Shunshin because he's shown using it in the final moment to dodge V2 A4 and he is compared to Minato exactly like he was compared to Minato when he blitzed Kisame. Imo the parallels are obvious.


This would be fine and dandy if we were to assume that shunshin naruto used versus Kisame was his maximum one or if naruto knew his limits as he wasnt challenged in shunshin context. If he had already speed to outspeed that would make whole hero struggling point less as this whole ordeal was battle of speeds. And actually there isnt much that limits naruto speed and infact he can overcome his limits as he has giant battery inside which powers those very same shunhins. Add to the fact that at that point it was raikage introduced as the fastest not naruto


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 5, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> This would be fine and dandy if we were to assume that shunshin naruto used versus Kisame was his maximum one or if naruto knew his limits as he wasnt challenged in shunshin context. *If he had already speed to outspeed that would make whole hero struggling point less as this whole ordeal was battle of speeds*. And actually there isnt much that limits naruto speed and infact he can overcome his limits as he has giant battery inside which powers those very same shunshins



No, it wouldn't, as Naruto vs Raikage was about Naruto eventually learning to control his speed.


----------



## Siskebabas (Aug 5, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> No, it wouldn't, as Naruto vs Raikage was about Naruto eventually learning to control his speed.


We havent seen any struggle over control, it was purely not having enough speed.


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 5, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> We havent *seen any struggle over control*, it was purely not having enough speed.



Yeah, we did. Naruto lost control over his speed against Kisame. Against Ay, Naruto was having to increase his speed bit by bit until he could finally handle V2+ level speed.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Mawt (Aug 5, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> This would be fine and dandy if we were to assume that shunshin naruto used versus Kisame was his maximum one or if naruto knew his limits as he wasnt challenged in shunshin context. If he had already speed to outspeed that would make whole hero struggling point less as this whole ordeal was battle of speeds. And actually there isnt much that limits naruto speed and infact he can overcome his limits as he has giant battery inside which powers those very same shunhins. Add to the fact that at that point it was raikage introduced as the fastest not naruto


There's a reason to assume that though since Naruto is compared to Minato both when he blitzes Kisame and when he dodges A4. There are direct parallels telling us this.

Again the struggle Naruto had was about *control* as opposed to speed. He already had the speed, but he didn't have the control to properly use it. The fight against A4 showed him gradually upping his speed until he skillfully use his flash Shunshin to outspeed A4.

So to reiterate:


Naruto's Shunshin which was used against Kisame directly results in Naruto being compared to Minato. The same thing happens when he dodges A4. A direct parallel is being formed here.
We already have a valid reason for Naruto not using his full speed against A4 right away: *Naruto couldn't control his max speed.*
The fact that Naruto stated he'd up his speed tells us that he wasn't using his full speed against A4. You can't up your speed if you're already using your max speed unless you can literally break your limits or something, which Naruto can't do.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Siskebabas (Aug 5, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Yeah, we did. Naruto lost control over his speed against Kisame. Against Ay, Naruto was having to increase his speed bit by bit until he could finally handle V2+ level speed.


He already received chakra control training during Bee training in the Island. 
What im saying being at Minato level is not about just having as good control as him but also being as fast him, which he was neither, only did he achieved at the end of raikage fight


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 5, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> He already received chakra control training during Bee training in the Island



We're talking about speed control, bub. That's something different.



Siskebabas said:


> What im saying being at Minato level is not about just having as good control as him but also being as fast him, which he was neither, only did he achieved at the end of raikage fight



Naruto was as fast as Minato against Kisame...which is why he was compared to the Yellow Flash at all.

He achieved control against Ay.


----------



## Mawt (Aug 5, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> He already received chakra control training during Bee training in the Island.
> What im saying being at Minato level is not about just having as good control as him but also being as fast him, which he was neither, only did he achieved at the end of raikage fight


Bro, he's directly stated to be "just like the Yellow Flash!" by Bee at the time he blitzes Kisame. There's a direct character statement forming a parallel between the two. 

Chakra control training doesn't have anything to do with controlling *speed*. We know he can't control his speed well because a) He's shown lodging himself into the wall. b) Yamato directly states that he doesn't have Minato's *skills*. If speed was the issue, he would've stated speed. If speed was the issue, Bee wouldn't have compared Naruto to Minato in the first place.

I really don't know what else to say. Tsunade and Bee say the *same exact thing *when Naruto uses flash Shunshin.  *"Just like the Yellow Flash!"*


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 5, 2020)

Mawt said:


> Bro, he's directly stated to be "just like the Yellow Flash!" by Bee at the time he blitzes Kisame. There's a direct character statement forming a parallel between the two.
> 
> Chakra control training doesn't have anything to do with controlling *speed*. We know he can't control his speed well because a) He's shown lodging himself into the wall. b) Yamato directly states that he doesn't have Minato's *skills*. If speed was the issue, he would've stated speed. If speed was the issue, Bee wouldn't have compared Naruto to Minato in the first place.
> 
> I really don't know what else to say. Tsunade and Bee say the *same exact thing *when Naruto uses flash Shunshin.  *"Just like the Yellow Flash!"*



Exactly.


----------



## Siskebabas (Aug 5, 2020)

Mawt said:


> There's a reason to assume that though since Naruto is compared to Minato both when he blitzes Kisame and when he dodges A4. There are direct parallels telling us this.
> 
> Again the struggle Naruto had was about *control* as opposed to speed. He already had the speed, but he didn't have the control to properly use it. The fight against A4 showed him gradually upping his speed until he skillfully use his flash Shunshin to outspeed A4.
> 
> ...


Youre using old information as a proof instead of new information, which disproves former. Its like hiruzen being strongest kage when later on when got introduced properly to Hashirama which disproves that notion entirely.
Naruto blitzes Kisame we got info that hes like his father, when infact yamato disproves his notion that he lacks control AND hes after all not on 4ths level.
And as i said being on Minato level is being having control and speed of his. 
And that would make zero point in introducing raikage as the fastest when in fact naruto was faster then him already, in that case there would be no strugle.
Furthermore if that was about control you should support it panels that he had problems with controling it raikage because im sure i can post panels with naruto not being fast enough.
Paralel was naruto not being as fast as Minato to finally becoming as fast him, not about control.


----------



## Mawt (Aug 5, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> Youre using old information as a proof instead of new information, which disproves former. Its like hiruzen being strongest kage when later on when got introduced properly to Hashirama which disproves that notion entirely.
> Naruto blitzes Kisame we got info that hes like his father, when infact yamato disproves his notion that he lacks control AND hes after all not on 4ths level.
> And as i said being on Minato level is being having control and speed of his.
> And that would make zero point in introducing raikage as the fastest when in fact naruto was faster then him already, in that case there would be no strugle.
> ...


No, it has nothing to do with old information being contradicted by new information. What you're doing is you're trying to look for a contradiction to argue that my point is wrong when in reality no such contradiction exists.

Naruto's *speed *is strictly compared to Minato's by Bee. It's his *control* that's lacking. This is highlighted by Yamato. We know Naruto wasn't using his full speed against A4 because he directly states "Faster this time!" That tells us that Naruto spends the fight upping his speed gradually until he uses flash Shunshin skillfully unlike his usage against Kisame. Simple as that. Denying this won't do anything especially since the Manga pretty much slaps us in our faces and tells us this.

"Just like the Yellow Flash!"


----------



## Siskebabas (Aug 5, 2020)

Mawt said:


> No, it has nothing to do with old information being contradicted by new information. What you're doing is you're trying to look for a contradiction to argue that my point is wrong when in reality no such contradiction exists.
> 
> Naruto's *speed *is strictly compared to Minato's by Bee. It's his *control* that's lacking. This is highlighted by Yamato. We know Naruto wasn't using his full speed against A4 because he directly states "Faster this time!" That tells us that Naruto spends the fight upping his speed gradually until he uses flash Shunshin skillfully unlike his usage against Kisame. Simple as that. Denying this won't do anything especially since the Manga pretty much slaps us in our faces and tells us this.
> 
> "Just like the Yellow Flash!"


Alright lets get this plain and simple, show me panels where he was struggling to control himself in raikage fight.

Here he almost gave up having speed battle againts raikage resorting to kage bunshins and would have been smacked by a4.
And we talking about paralels again, it was not about Naruto blitzing Kisame, but about Naruto dodging raikages fastest punch just as his father did, not what he did previously to Kisame.


----------



## Gitagon (Aug 6, 2020)

People here gotta be joking. Do people think A is more durable than Susanoo? Madara's Susanoo at that.


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 6, 2020)

Gitagon said:


> People here gotta be joking. Do people think A is more durable than Susanoo? Madara's Susanoo at that.



Yes, some do seem to think that.


----------



## Shazam (Aug 6, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Yes, some do seem to think that.



Same thoughts


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 8, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> Alright lets get this plain and simple, show me panels where he was struggling to control himself in raikage fight.



Naruto was learning to control his speed. That was the entire point of Naruto ''vs'' Raikage.



Siskebabas said:


> Here he almost gave up having speed battle againts raikage resorting to kage bunshins and would have been smacked by a4



Ok, and? He didn't give up and eventually won.



Siskebabas said:


> And we talking about paralels again, it was not about Naruto blitzing Kisame, but about Naruto dodging raikages fastest punch just as his father did, not what he did previously to Kisame.



Bro, are you for real? Naruto was explicitly compared to Minato BOTH times.


----------



## Siskebabas (Aug 8, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Naruto was learning to control his speed. That was the entire point of Naruto ''vs'' Raikage.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do you follow continuity of feats? Is it that hard? Yamato debunks previous statements off Bee, thats hes not on his father level yet. Then in raikage we get direct comparison between those to aka dodging raikage max speed, which previously naruto couldnt do it, you can even see naruto expression clearly that hes trying his hardest and commenting that raikage is fast, and previously he shit blitzed Kisame zero diff. As i've said show me panels of naruto struggling to control his speed, because i can easily show of him sturgling to outspeed raikage


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 8, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> Do you follow continuity of feats? Is it that hard?



I do. It's not hard at all - which is why I'm surprised you either aren't doing so or simply can't.



Siskebabas said:


> Yamato debunks previous statements off Bee, thats hes not on his father level yet



As literally everyone here has told you, Yamato was talking about Naruto's *skill*, not his speed itself.

@Mawt @FlamingRain @MShadows @Turrin Your translating skills would be much appreciated here.



Siskebabas said:


> Then in raikage we get direct comparison between those to aka dodging raikage max speed, which previously naruto couldnt do it, you can even see naruto expression clearly that hes trying his hardest and commenting that raikage is fast, and previously he shit blitzed Kisame zero diff



Sigh. Naruto was ALSO compared to Minato when he blitzed Kisame. He was called a ''Yellow Flash'' then too, by Killer Bee.

As for Naruto ''trying his hardest'', that's the POINT. 

Naruto is trying to control progressively higher levels of speed so he can beat Ay.



Siskebabas said:


> As i've said show me panels of naruto struggling to control his speed, because i can easily show of him sturgling to outspeed raikage



Oh, Maru...

Bro, you just answered your question right there.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Mawt (Aug 8, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> I do. It's not hard at all - which is why I'm surprised you either aren't doing so or simply can't.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice solo 

You ended his whole NF career


----------



## Subtle (Aug 8, 2020)

A4 Wins,

A4 is extremely fast for Tsunade, Sasuke had the advantage of possessing sharingan, speed and being quite skilled. Tsunade who can't percieve A4 nor react (in time) will be unable to do anything of value.

Tsunade may be stronger but all her efforts will remain futile as Raikage dodges her punches and ends the battle.


----------



## Siskebabas (Aug 8, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> I do. It's not hard at all - which is why I'm surprised you either aren't doing so or simply can't.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Man this going circles, if you cant øst panels of him struggling to control his speed versus raikage so why even bother to respond? Being comparable not mean equals anyways and supported by yamato. I wont budge on this, if other wants give their opinions i will gladly read them. Lets agree to disagree
So now you're calling everyone maru who doesnt agree with you?


----------



## Siskebabas (Aug 8, 2020)

Mawt said:


> Nice solo
> 
> You ended his whole NF career


Imagine having cafeer on naruto forums, get your head out of your own ass


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 8, 2020)

Subtle said:


> A4 is extremely fast for Tsunade, Sasuke had the advantage of possessing sharingan, speed and being quite skilled



Suigetsu didn't have the Sharingan or much speed and was able to block Ay. Ay's skill isn't anything any Elite Jonin can't handle.

Tsunade canonically has better CQC ability than Ay. I think y'all are overhyping the dude here.



Subtle said:


> Tsunade who can't percieve A4 nor react (in time) will be unable to do anything of value



Ah, because Ay always moves at his top speed...funny how Suigetsu, Juugo, Darui, and Base Bee were able to react against him. It's as if those feats never happened for some of y'all.



Subtle said:


> Tsunade may be stronger but all her efforts will remain futile as Raikage dodges her punches and ends the battle.



Ends the battle how, exactly? Tsunade survived being ripped to shreds as well as being bisected for a prolonged period of time.



Siskebabas said:


> Man this going circles, if you cant øst panels of him struggling to control his speed versus raikage so why even bother to respond? Being comparable not mean equals anyways and supported by yamato. I wont budge on this, if other wants give their opinions i will gladly read them. Lets agree to disagree
> So now you're calling everyone maru who doesnt agree with you?



You do realize you just answered that question, right? Your own question?

''As i've said show me panels of naruto struggling to control his speed, *because i can easily show of him sturgling to outspeed raikage*''


You're still using the Yamato argument when all Yamato said is that Naruto has less SKILL than Minato, not SPEED. The two feats ARE equal speed wise, one just involved Naruto losing control of his speed and the other involved him MAINTAINING control.



Siskebabas said:


> Imagine having cafeer on naruto forums



Keep imagining it, because you don't have one any more.


----------



## Subtle (Aug 8, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Suigetsu didn't have the Sharingan or much speed and was able to block Ay. Ay's skill isn't anything any Elite Jonin can't handle.
> 
> Tsunade canonically has better CQC ability than Ay. I think y'all are overhyping the dude here.
> 
> ...



Ay seemed to increase his speed incrementally, So he won't be moving with his top speed (in the beginning) but that shouldn't matter much when Raikage is deemed faster (by Madara).

Against Ay, if you don't have the reactions (and I don't believe Tsunade has those reactions) she will be unable to tag him and even if (somehow) she does she won't be able to breach his raiton armour.

If Tsunade is immobile then the battle is over.


----------



## ThirdRidoku (Aug 8, 2020)

Subtle said:


> Ay seemed to increase his speed incrementally, So he won't be moving with his top speed (in the beginning) but that shouldn't matter much when Raikage is deemed faster (by Madara).
> 
> Against Ay, if you don't have the reactions (and I don't believe Tsunade has those reactions) she will be unable to tag him and even if (somehow) she does she won't be able to breach his raiton armour.
> 
> If Tsunade is immobile then the battle is over.



She can counter punch him because he is a taijutsu only fighter with linear Shunshin attacks that can be read. Raikage has high speed, not dexterity. He needed to be saved By Base Bee tentacle against Minato, and ran into walls trying to blitz obito at FKS and  KCM Naruto. Madara deemed Tsunade stronger so she stops his momentum. And nothing says she isn't breaching his raiton armour after several hits, she cracked Madara's  Susano'o with one punch dude.


----------



## Subtle (Aug 8, 2020)

ThirdRidoku said:


> She can counter punch him because he is a taijutsu only fighter with linear Shunshin attacks that can be read. Raikage has high speed, not dexterity. He needed to be saved By Base Bee tentacle against Minato, and ran into walls trying to blitz obito at FKS and  KCM Naruto. Madara deemed Tsunade stronger so she stops his momentum. And nothing says she isn't breaching his raiton armour after several hits, she cracked Madara's  Susano'o with one punch dude.



The susanoo she cracked is implied to be a wood clone Madara not the actual susanoo. His focus at the time seemed to get to Obito (as he claimed to be Madara) rather than direction. How would she counter punch him when he's going to be moving at a greater speed?


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 8, 2020)

Subtle said:


> The susanoo she cracked is implied to be a wood clone Madara not the actual susanoo



 and so was the Madara.



Subtle said:


> Ay seemed to increase his speed incrementally, So he won't be moving with his top speed (in the beginning) but that shouldn't matter much when Raikage is deemed faster (by Madara)



Yes, Ay is deemed faster, but his initial speeds were reacted to by the likes of Suigetsu, Darui, and Juugo. In addition, Tsunade literally outperformed V2 Ay against Madara's Susano'o clones even while getting ''sloppy'' as the latter put it.



Subtle said:


> Against Ay, if you don't have the reactions (and I don't believe Tsunade has those reactions) she will be unable to tag him



Not really, as Tsunade is better in CQC and Ay won't use his top or even necessarily higher speeds without knowledge.



Subtle said:


> and even if (somehow) she does she won't be able to breach his raiton armour



We know attacks stronger than Ay's own are capable of taking out his lightning armor, as Base Bee proved. If Tsunade hits him even once, that shit goes bye bye bye BYE BYE, N-Sync style, and the Raikage either dies immediately (if in V1) or is badly injured (if in V2).



Subtle said:


> If Tsunade is immobile then the battle is over.



And how exactly is Tsunade immobile?


----------



## Mawt (Aug 8, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> Imagine having cafeer on naruto forums, get your head out of your own ass


Maru 

Just accept that he ended your NF career

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Siskebabas (Aug 9, 2020)

Mawt said:


> Maru
> 
> Just accept that he ended your NF career


Okay Maru, calm down, just take your pils


----------



## Turrin (Aug 9, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> I do. It's not hard at all - which is why I'm surprised you either aren't doing so or simply can't.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I’ve already told him it’s his skill and he won’t accept it , don’t know what else to say


----------



## Siskebabas (Aug 9, 2020)

Turrin said:


> I’ve already told him it’s his skill and he won’t accept it , don’t know what else to say


Turrin stop looking for validation. Whats there is to accept your "character cant be blitzed if distance longer then 5 meters"?


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 9, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> Turrin stop looking for validation. Whats there is to accept your "character cant be blitzed if distance longer then 5 meters"?



He's not looking for validation.

You should be.


----------



## Siskebabas (Aug 9, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> He's not looking for validation.
> 
> You should be.


I dont need no validations from others, you're what third person here going circles? If you cant post panels of naruto struggling to control his speed in raikage fight, why even bother? You cant support your opinion


----------



## FlamingRain (Aug 9, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> I dont need no validations from others, you're what third person here going circles? If you cant post panels of naruto struggling to control his speed in raikage fight, why even bother? You cant support your opinion



The fact that those panels don't exist is in and of itself support of their point.


----------



## Siskebabas (Aug 9, 2020)

FlamingRain said:


> The fact that those panels don't exist is in and of itself support of their point.


Uhh, okay another one. Yet there exist panels of naruto struggling to outspeed raikage. Unless you think the moment naruto achieved kcm naruto he went immediately to Minato level speed and then not getting past raikage, this is some kindergarden


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 9, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> I dont need no validations from others



Double negative. So that means you do need validations from others...



Siskebabas said:


> If you cant post panels of naruto struggling to control his speed in raikage fight, why even bother? You cant support your opinion



A whole bunch of people just explained and told you what Yamato actually meant. At this point you're exercising willful ignorance, nothing more or less.


----------



## FlamingRain (Aug 9, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> Uhh, okay another one. Yet there exist panels of naruto struggling to outspeed raikage. Unless you think the moment naruto achieved kcm naruto he went immediately to Minato level speed and then not getting past raikage, this is some kindergarden



We have a statement from Bee right there indicating that he did. Then Naruto and Yamato's statements indicate he didn't know how to handle it. The lack of panels showing his struggle to control that speed serves to support the notion that he wasn't using it because his inability to control it was _already_ established.


----------



## Siskebabas (Aug 9, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Double negative. So that means you do need validations from others...
> 
> 
> 
> A whole bunch of people just explained and told you what Yamato actually meant. At this point you're exercising willful ignorance, nothing more or less.


If you think so bud, doesnt change anything here 
What Yamato said is further supported in raikage that fight, that he was not 4th raikage level until he actually became. 
He just got faster, same shit can be observed with ems sasuke


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 9, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> If you think so bud



No, that's what people who translated rhe manga are saying. That's also common sense (Naruto was likened to Minato both times, therefore the only difference can be control).



Siskebabas said:


> What Yamato said is further supported in raikage that fight, that he was not 4th raikage level until he actually became.
> He just got faster, same shit can be observed with ems sasuke



You're misinterpreting Yamato's words. Naruto was above Ay in speed already, it was his control and skill (or lack thereof) that was the issue. He improved control, not speed.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Mawt (Aug 9, 2020)



Reactions: Like 7


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 9, 2020)

Lol


----------



## Siskebabas (Aug 9, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> No, that's what people who translated rhe manga are saying. That's also common sense (Naruto was likened to Minato both times, therefore the only difference can be control).
> 
> 
> 
> You're misinterpreting Yamato's words. Naruto was above Ay in speed already, it was his control and skill (or lack thereof) that was the issue. He improved control, not speed.


Alright, whats your thougts about this?


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 9, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> Alright, whats your thougts about this?



It literally doesn't contradict a single thing I or the others have been saying. Deflection won't help you, bubba. I think this translation is fucked up though (Ay was definitely slower than Minato).


----------



## Siskebabas (Aug 10, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> It literally doesn't contradict a single thing I or the others have been saying. Deflection won't help you, bubba. I think this translation is fucked up though (Ay was definitely slower than Minato).


It literslly does, left caption raikage overtakes naruto, thats what happened, multiple times until he eventually got surpassed. Werent you yourself arguing Raikiri>chidori because databook said ones rank s and other a? You cant selectivelly ignore shit


----------



## Turrin (Aug 10, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> Turrin stop looking for validation. Whats there is to accept your "character cant be blitzed if distance longer then 5 meters"?


Is this English?


----------



## Subtle (Aug 10, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> and so was the Madara.
> 
> Yes, Ay is deemed faster, but his initial speeds were reacted to by the likes of Suigetsu, Darui, and Juugo. In addition, Tsunade literally outperformed V2 Ay against Madara's Susano'o clones even while getting ''sloppy'' as the latter put it.
> 
> ...



When Tsuande and Madara are conversing, Tsunade "Yes, you outwitted the five of us with your wood doppleganger", (before this scene takes place) the only time the five kage contributed against Madara was before Tsunade damaged ribcage susanoo.

I do agree, Ay won't use his top speed in the beginning.


----------



## Siskebabas (Aug 10, 2020)

Turrin said:


> Is this English?


It is. Anyways its low tier to commentate on another person language skills when English is not ones mother tongue


----------



## Turrin (Aug 10, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> It is. Anyways its low tier to commentate on another person language skills when English is not ones mother tongue


I just literally don’t know what your were tying to say


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 10, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> It literslly does, left caption raikage overtakes naruto, thats what happened



And no one's denying that happened...? How on earth does this Databook entry contradict the point FlamingRain, Turrin, Mawt, I, and possibly others have been making? Ay did overtake KCM Naruto in speed..._until_ Naruto learned to use his Yellow Flash speed skillfully.



Siskebabas said:


> Werent you yourself arguing Raikiri>chidori because databook said ones rank s and other a?



Yes, and? I'm not convinced this is the right translation (it_ is_ a fan translation, and I remember another one saying Ay was slower than the Yellow Flash - which is entirely in line with what the manga has shown). I'll try looking for it again, but @Turrin might know where it is.



Siskebabas said:


> *You cant selectivelly ignore shit*



Bold words coming from the guy who's selectively ignoring the most logical and obvious meaning of Yamato's words.


----------



## Siskebabas (Aug 10, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> And no one's denying that happened...? How on earth does this Databook entry contradict the point FlamingRain, Turrin, Mawt, I, and possibly others have been making? Ay did overtake KCM Naruto in speed..._until_ Naruto learned to use his Yellow Flash speed skillfully.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Make a thread, 3 simple scenarios
1. Shunshin versus kisame is above v2
2. Shunshin versus Kisame is as equal as versus raikages v2
3. Shunshin versus raikages v2 is faster then that versus kisame
Majority is your and i drop that shit and wont mention again
Seems fair


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 10, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> Make a thread, 3 simple scenarios
> 1. Shunshin versus kisame is above v2
> 2. Shunshin versus Kisame is as equal as versus raikages v2
> 3. Shunshin versus raikages v2 is faster then that versus kisame
> ...



You do it, since you're so confident they're different.

Nothing will change the truth.


----------



## Siskebabas (Aug 10, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> You do it, since you're so confident they're different.
> 
> Nothing will change the truth.


Since im not known poster here my post wont gather any attention, so it fruitless for me to make it


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 10, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> Since im not known poster here my post wont gather any attention, so it fruitless for me to make it



Yeah, I think you underestimate yourself. Do it.


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 13, 2020)

StarWanderer said:


> Seriously, if nothing has stopped Kabuto from tagging her



Are you really comparing the rusty Tsunade of P1 who literally wasn't a ninja for two fucking decades and was worn out before the fight took place (to the point she had* too little chakra to heal injuries*) to the one who outperformed V2 Ay against Madara's Susano'o clones? Also, what's wrong with Kabuto tagging a _weakened_ Tsunade when Suigetsu and a child Juugo did the same against a _fresh and healthy_ Raikage? Kabuto was a Jonin on par with Kakashi who > Suigetsu and Juugo and had trouble with a weakened Tsunade. I'm sorry, but this feat doesn't make Tsunade look bad. It actually makes_ Ay _look bad.



StarWanderer said:


> what stops V1 Ei from doing the same, or worse



The fact P2 Tsunade > V2 Ay in CQC. We've been over this like so many fucking times.

And with that, your stupid ass is on my ignore list. Fun fact: you're neither the first nor the only one here supporting Ay but you argue like a fucking toddler with your overuse of emojis, double standards, and just overall shit tier arguments. Hence you get blocked.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Gitagon (Aug 13, 2020)

A gets splattered into blood mist.


----------



## Rinnegan Zetsu (Aug 13, 2020)

A4.


----------



## Alita (Aug 13, 2020)

4th raikage is obviously much faster than Tsunade and I don't buy Tsunade being able to regenerate without a head so he low diffs here imo.


----------



## Shazam (Aug 13, 2020)

Raikage blitzes Tsunade with an Elbow, she tanks the hit while grabbing unto A4's arm and OPM his face in.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Gitagon (Aug 14, 2020)

All Tsuna has to do is tank the first hit if A4 blitzes which she can, grab him then boom, it's light's out for the Raikage.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## zaddyxx22 (Aug 14, 2020)

wow 14 pages of text just for A4 to lose again

Reactions: Like 5


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 14, 2020)

Alita said:


> 4th raikage is obviously much faster than Tsunade and I don't buy Tsunade being able to regenerate without a head so he low diffs here imo.



Tsunade regenerated from being torn to shreds by Mabui's transfer technique and healed from being bisected (keep in mind Madara dropped a tree on her to ensure the two halves didn't rejoin normally, and Katsuyu said she could help even when the tree was separating both halves). I don't think a lost head is going to be an issue, any more than it would be for Orochimaru. Also, Ay being much faster than Tsunade doesn't mean she can't raise her hands up to react in the event she gets blitzed as Sage Juugo did. And once she brings those up, she can do what Juugo couldn't - halt Ay's attack, before decking him.


----------



## Alita (Aug 15, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Tsunade regenerated from being torn to shreds by Mabui's transfer technique and healed from being bisected (keep in mind Madara dropped a tree on her to ensure the two halves didn't rejoin normally, and Katsuyu said she could help even when the tree was separating both halves). I don't think a lost head is going to be an issue, any more than it would be for Orochimaru. Also, Ay being much faster than Tsunade doesn't mean she can't raise her hands up to react in the event she gets blitzed as Sage Juugo did. And once she brings those up, she can do what Juugo couldn't - halt Ay's attack, before decking him.



She healed the damage before it became fatal so I disagree. It's not like we saw her head get shredded to nothing and then she regrew a new one. And if anything that just proves my point. If she could regen a head on her own she should be able to regen her lower half easily. The fact that katsuyu needed to move the tree tells me she can't just regen anything she loses out of thin air like you guys are implying otherwise she could just regrow her lower half and would not need it to be reconnected. 

A4 obviously wasn't coming at juugo seriously the first time he ran to him. The moment he got serious he blitzed the dude so fast he didn't even realized that his energy blast missed and he got one shotted shortly afterwards.


----------



## Jad (Aug 15, 2020)

This has to be one of the longest damn threads. 280 replies...

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## StarWanderer (Aug 16, 2020)

Alita said:


> She healed the damage before it became fatal so I disagree. It's not like we saw her head get shredded to nothing and then she regrew a new one. And if anything that just proves my point. If she could regen a head on her own she should be able to regen her lower half easily. The fact that katsuyu needed to move the tree tells me she can't just regen anything she loses out of thin air like you guys are implying otherwise she could just regrow her lower half and would not need it to be reconnected.
> 
> A4 obviously wasn't coming at juugo seriously the first time he ran to him. The moment he got serious he blitzed the dude so fast he didn't even realized that his energy blast missed and he got one shotted shortly afterwards.



The dude is a wanker so nevermind.




Jad said:


> This has to be one of the longest damn threads. 280 replies...



And the funny thing is - the thread is a complete spite.

It seems Tsunade has an army of wankers out here. How the hell she can beat someone capable of blitzing her in an instant is beyond me.


----------



## Zero890 (Aug 16, 2020)

Alita said:


> She healed the damage before it became fatal so I disagree. It's not like we saw her head get shredded to nothing and then she regrew a new one. And if anything that just proves my point. If she could regen a head on her own she should be able to regen her lower half easily. The fact that katsuyu needed to move the tree tells me she can't just regen anything she loses out of thin air like you guys are implying otherwise she could just regrow her lower half and would not need it to be reconnected.
> 
> A4 obviously wasn't coming at juugo seriously the first time he ran to him. The moment he got serious he blitzed the dude so fast he didn't even realized that his energy blast missed and he got one shotted shortly afterwards.



Boro regenerated a head i don't see why Tsunade can't with her similar regen 

Also Tsunade wasn't using Byakugou when Madara cut her in half, she was in base

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Lyren (Aug 16, 2020)

Zero890 said:


> Boro regenerated a head i don't see why Tsunade can't with her similar regen
> 
> Also Tsunade wasn't using Byakugou when Madara cut her in half, she was in base


And still felt the need to put a tree between her upper and lower body

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## Jad (Aug 16, 2020)

StarWanderer said:


> The dude is a wanker so nevermind.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Don't need to convince me. I already made my points to why A wins. Also Tsunade is one of the most wanked characters on this forum, that hasn't stopped being the case since I joined 11 years ago.


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 16, 2020)

Alita said:


> She healed the damage before it became fatal so I disagree



Tsunade doesn't heal damage that fast. Every time she has healed from an injury it's been fairly .



Alita said:


> It's not like we saw her head get shredded to nothing and then she regrew a new one. And if anything that just proves my point. If she could regen a head on her own she should be able to regen her lower half easily. The fact that katsuyu needed to move the tree tells me she can't just regen anything she loses out of thin air like you guys are implying



It's not what we're implying, 

Also, you do realize *that Tsunade didn't even have her seal active, right*? Yet she still survived.



Alita said:


> A4 obviously wasn't coming at juugo seriously the first time he ran to him



That's kind of the point - there's no reason to believe A4 will come at Tsunade at an especially high speed the first time he runs to her either, giving Tsunade an opportunity to take the hit before crushing him and healing any damage she has taken. Keep in mind A4 has _already seen Juugo counter his initial speed_ and _thus raised his speed accordingly_, whereas he likely won't have seen Tsunade do similar (never mind the fact that if she *did *counter his hits, she'd *kill him outright*). If anything, his speed might be_ lower_.



Alita said:


> The moment he got serious he blitzed the dude so fast he didn't even realized that his energy blast missed and he got one shotted shortly afterwards.



Yes,  and .

Guarantee Tsunade can get in a punch and utterly wreck Ay's body during that timeframe.


----------



## Alita (Aug 16, 2020)

Zero890 said:


> Boro regenerated a head i don't see why Tsunade can't with her similar regen
> 
> Also Tsunade wasn't using Byakugou when Madara cut her in half, she was in base



You can't scale Boro's regen which is based on scientific ninja tools and new era technology to Tsunade. It's completely different regen based on different methods. It was heavily implied that even pre shinju absorbtion juudara could not regen a new head and his regen is obviously superior to tsunade's.


----------



## Alita (Aug 16, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Tsunade doesn't heal damage that fast. Every time she has healed from an injury it's been fairly .



It took her like one panel to heal that wound. I don't consider that "slow" healing.




> It's not what we're implying,
> 
> Also, you do realize *that Tsunade didn't even have her seal active, right*? Yet she still survived.



Being able to regen some internal organs is not the same thing as re growing a brand new head. It's not just re growing the brain and eye balls but also the entire skull and part of the spinal cord. Her brain likely has to send signals to the rest of her body for her regen to work which it can't do when her head is gone. 



> That's kind of the point - there's no reason to believe A4 will come at Tsunade at an especially high speed the first time he runs to her either, giving Tsunade an opportunity to take the hit before crushing him and healing any damage she has taken. Keep in mind A4 has _already seen Juugo counter his initial speed_ and _thus raised his speed accordingly_, whereas he likely won't have seen Tsunade do similar (never mind the fact that if she *did *counter his hits, she'd *kill him outright*). If anything, his speed might be_ lower_.



So raikage is gonna just hold back and let tsunade punch him for no reason? Yeah not buying that. She isn't some random nobody like juugo was she is a well known sannin. He won't hold back. Hell she has a better reputation than kisame does and he was willing to go for an immediate blitz and kill against him.


----------



## Zero890 (Aug 16, 2020)

Alita said:


> You can't scale Boro's regen which is based on scientific ninja tools and new era technology to Tsunade. It's completely different regen based on different methods.



It is said that Tsunade can regen any organ with Byakugou (why not the brain?)so it is fair scale her with Boro's regen...



Alita said:


> t was heavily implied that even pre shinju absorbtion juudara could not regen a new head



When


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 16, 2020)

Alita said:


> It took her like one panel to heal that wound. I don't consider that "slow" healing



Just so you know, we're comparing being impaled by a sword to being _ripped to shreds at light speed_.

The latter kind of damage is far, far more penetrative and harder (therefore more time-consuming) to regenerate from.



Alita said:


> Being able to regen some internal organs is not the same thing as re growing a brand new head



Where do you get Tsunade can only regenerate ''internal'' organs? Not only does Tsunade *not* make this distinction,. I'm gonna go with both of them over you.



Alita said:


> It's not just re growing the brain and eye balls but also the entire skull and part of the spinal cord. Her brain likely has to send signals to the rest of her body for her regen to work which it can't do when her head is gone



And all this will be a problem for the woman who survived *being bisected without Strength of a Hundred even (visibly) active...how, exactly*? If the head gets ripped from the body, the head could regenerate a new body to go along with it.



Alita said:


> So raikage is gonna just hold back



I mean, it makes more sense that Ay would conserve chakra unless he sees a reason to use it, yes. 

That's how real fights go and that's how the Raikage himself operates. Besides, using the Body Flicker does take chakra and stronger flickers take _more _chakra.  () and neither did he use it when c). 



Alita said:


> and let tsunade punch him for no reason?



Who said anything about ''let''? 

 (eventually), Tsunade can too and crush him outright. ...



Alita said:


> Yeah not buying that. She isn't some random nobody like juugo was she is a well known sannin



Juugo isn't some ''random nobody'' either - _he was part of the team that kidnapped Killer Bee, Ay's brother_. Ay has literally no reason to underestimate him or any of Sasuke's teammates. Juugo also surprisingly has quite the reputation, . 



Alita said:


> He won't hold back. Hell she has a better reputation than kisame does and he was willing to go for an immediate blitz and kill against him.



Define ''hold back'', because Ay has never used his highest speeds in the beginning of any fight outside Minato - a man whose reputation as a _speedster_ *surpasses his own*. .


----------



## Alita (Aug 18, 2020)

Zero890 said:


> It is said that Tsunade can regen any organ with Byakugou (why not the brain?)so it is fair scale her with Boro's regen...
> 
> 
> 
> When



I disagree. Boro's regen goes beyond just individual organs. Tsunade has never showed the ability to regen an entire half or more of her body like Boro. If that were possible for her  she wouldn't have needed katsuyu to reattach her lower half after the madara fight. 

When he told guy he nearly killed him with his night moth attack. The only part of his body that wasn't completely mangled was his head.


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 18, 2020)

Alita said:


> Tsunade has never showed the ability to regen an entire half or more of her body like Boro



But we know she can regenerate from being torn to shreds (which is worse than that), so...



Alita said:


> If that were possible for her  she wouldn't have needed katsuyu to reattach her lower half after the madara fight



Lmao. You realize Tsunade didn't even have Strength of a Hundred: Creation Rebirth active there, right?


----------



## Alita (Aug 18, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Just so you know, we're comparing being impaled by a sword to being _ripped to shreds at light speed_.
> 
> The latter kind of damage is far, far more penetrative and harder (therefore more time-consuming) to regenerate from.



Regardless we do not see her head destroyed and her regen a new one so it's not proof she can do that.




> Where do you get Tsunade can only regenerate ''internal'' organs? Not only does Tsunade *not* make this distinction,. I'm gonna go with both of them over you.



In your scan she says organs and limbs not anything. 




> And all this will be a problem for the woman who survived *being bisected without Strength of a Hundred even (visibly) active...how, exactly*? If the head gets ripped from the body, the head could regenerate a new body to go along with it.



Which is just speculation on your part with no feats to back it up. Not fact. 



> I mean, it makes more sense that Ay would conserve chakra unless he sees a reason to use it, yes.
> 
> That's how real fights go and that's how the Raikage himself operates. Besides, using the Body Flicker does take chakra and stronger flickers take _more _chakra.  () and neither did he use it when c).



Okay well I'm not going by a scenario where A holds back and whatnot. If he is fighting seriously and going for the kill I don't see him losing. Not like he needs max speed to be faster than Tsunade anyway.




> Who said anything about ''let''?
> 
> (eventually), Tsunade can too and crush him outright. ...



You are aware that raikage will see her raise her hands right? You are aware he can just attack her from a different angle where her fists are not aimed right? 




> Juugo isn't some ''random nobody'' either - _he was part of the team that kidnapped Killer Bee, Ay's brother_. Ay has literally no reason to underestimate him or any of Sasuke's teammates. Juugo also surprisingly has quite the reputation, .



A sannin's reputation is still way better.....


----------



## Alita (Aug 18, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> But we know she can regenerate from being torn to shreds (which is worse than that), so...
> 
> 
> 
> Lmao. You realize Tsunade didn't even have Strength of a Hundred: Creation Rebirth active there, right?



We don't know how much damage she received from the transfer as I already explained. She healed before it got as bad as it could get.

That doesn't mean you can just randomly assume she can regrow a whole new body or head dude you need feats for this. Kishi could have showed us this but never did for a reason.


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 19, 2020)

Alita said:


> We don't know how much damage she received from the transfer as I already explained



We know it's strong enough to rip human bodies to shreds and Tsunade, knowing the risks, thought her seal would work...



Alita said:


> That doesn't mean you can just randomly assume she can regrow a whole new body or head dude you need feats for this. Kishi could have showed us this but never did for a reason.



Who said anything about ''randomly assuming''? The Second Databook and Tsunade herself both say she can regenerate any organ. We saw Tsunade survive being bisected in spite of no longer being in Strength of a Hundred at least outwardly.

Based on that logic, the idea of Tsunade regrowing a whole new body or head isn't remotely strange.


----------



## StarWanderer (Aug 19, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Who said anything about ''randomly assuming''? The Second Databook and Tsunade herself both say she can regenerate any organ. We saw Tsunade survive being bisected in spite of no longer being in Strength of a Hundred at least outwardly.
> 
> Based on that logic, the idea of Tsunade regrowing a whole new body or head isn't remotely strange.



If she can regrow her limbs/head, why did she require Suigetsu to re-attach her lower body with the rest? Why Hashirama's SM, which has been stated to be unrivaled in terms of medical jutsu per Databook, didnt allow Madara to regrow his arm, for example? 

Seriously, dude. Your wank is not funny at this point.


----------



## Speedyamell (Aug 19, 2020)

Y'all just won't let this thread rest in peace huh?


----------



## Speedyamell (Aug 19, 2020)

StarWanderer said:


> If she can regrow her limbs/head, why did she require Suigetsu to re-attach her lower body with the rest?


Did you forget the part that she was literally exhausted? And had no interest in healing herself prior to that?


StarWanderer said:


> Why Hashirama's SM, which has been stated to be unrivaled in terms of medical jutsu per Databook, didnt allow Madara to regrow his arm, for example?


Hashirama's regen has no bearing on byakugō. Byakugō was already stated to be capable of regenerating limbs


StarWanderer said:


> Seriously, dude. Your wank is not funny at this point.


You can't accuse of wank after making such terrible arguments

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## StarWanderer (Aug 19, 2020)

Speedyamell said:


> Did you forget the part that she was literally exhausted? And had no interest in healing herself prior to that?



Did you forget the instant reaction of Katsuyu after she's been summoned? 




Speedyamell said:


> Hashirama's regen has no bearing on byakugō. Byakugō was already stated to be capable of regenerating limbs





Knyght said:


> *[Healing Ability]*
> 
> Further worthy of admiration is his recovery ability. Commanding high-level ninja healing arts, he can heal wounds even without making hand gestures. His body itself brimming with vitality, those with Hashirama?s cells have heightened healing ability. *To this day, there is no ninja existing who surpasses this power.*




Ooops. 

Oh by the way - regenerating her limbs, or regrowing them? That's an important question.  



Speedyamell said:


> You can't accuse of wank after making such terrible arguments



Whatever helps you feel better.


----------



## Alita (Aug 19, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> We know it's strong enough to rip human bodies to shreds and Tsunade, knowing the risks, thought her seal would work...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



We will just have to agree to disagree then I guess. Regenerating a head is much more than just regenerating your brain....


----------



## Leaf Hurricane (Aug 19, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> I like how people think decapitation will kill Tsunade even though bifurcation - something incredibly similar - didn't.


Cutting your head off is different from slicing the body even in naruto terms. 
Once her head is separate she isn't sending any signals to her hands and rest of the body to perform any hand signs or jutsu. Her Chakra isn't reaching her brain and she can't breathe due to lack of oxygen since her respiratory system is separate. She dies a slow and painful death.


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 19, 2020)

Alita said:


> We will just have to agree to disagree then I guess. Regenerating a head is much more than just regenerating your brain....



Please explain what you mean.



Rock Lee like a Hurricane said:


> Cutting your head off is different from slicing the body even in naruto terms



Gee, someone should've told Hidan that, I guess. I see no proof of this though.



Rock Lee like a Hurricane said:


> Once her head is separate she isn't sending any signals to her hands and rest of the body to perform any hand signs or jutsu. Her Chakra isn't reaching her brain and she can't breathe due to lack of oxygen since her respiratory system is separate. She dies a slow and painful death.



She doesn't need to perform any hand signs or new jutsu when SoAH is active...

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Leaf Hurricane (Aug 19, 2020)

A4 punches a hole through her head mid diff. She isn't reacting to him and he isn't the type to fuck around either. 
And huge lol at Tsunade getting ready to hand A4 his ass for stopping Naruto. She'd have gotten her head cleaved.


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 19, 2020)

Rock Lee like a Hurricane said:


> A4 punches a hole through her head mid diff



Like he did against Suigetsu or Juugo. Oh wait...



Rock Lee like a Hurricane said:


> She isn't reacting to him and he isn't the type to fuck around either



Yeah, she can definitely react to his initial speeds and Ay won't use his full power or likely go for a headshot without knowledge.



Rock Lee like a Hurricane said:


> And huge lol at Tsunade getting ready to hand A4 his ass for stopping Naruto. She'd have gotten her head cleaved.



The way people keep ranting about Ay cutting Tsunade's head off, it makes me wonder why Madara didn't just...do that?


----------



## Leaf Hurricane (Aug 19, 2020)

And also A4 opening with a Lariat is OOC but Tsunade immediately going for byakugo amped CES punch victory is so in character... Like all the times that would have been the best thing to do but she didn't do it.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 19, 2020)

Rock Lee like a Hurricane said:


> And also A4 opening with a Lariat is OOC but Tsunade immediately going for byakugo amped CES punch victory is so in character...
> 
> Like all the times that would have been the best thing to do but she didn't do it.



Please explain, dear sir. What other times was this the ''best thing to do but she didn't do it''?Tsunade uses her chakra-enhanced strength in literally every fight. It's literally her go-to even against fodder. Wtf are you talking about? Meanwhile, the only times we've seen Ay use Lariat against opponents is when he had a PARTNER or his opponent was Bee himself lmao.


----------



## Leaf Hurricane (Aug 19, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Like he did against Suigetsu or Juugo. Oh wait...


He literally punched a hole through juugo.. What are you talking?


Aegon Targaryen said:


> Yeah, she can definitely react to his initial speeds and Ay won't use his full power or likely go for a headshot without knowledge.


Rep is enough... He knows she is crazy strong.


Aegon Targaryen said:


> The way people keep ranting about Ay cutting Tsunade's head off, it makes me wonder why Madara didn't just...do that?


Because 

Unlike A, Madara wanted to put her in her place by toying with her. 
Unlike A, Madara was toying with her.
Unlike A, Madara knows he is far superior to the 5 combined and was clearly enjoying the superiority. 
Madara could have once he bisected her but instead lost interest and left further proving that unlike A, Madara was fucking around.
So first off huge nope for comparing Madara mindset to Ay's here.


----------



## Leaf Hurricane (Aug 19, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Please explain, dear sir. What other times was this the ''best thing to do but she didn't do it''?Tsunade uses her chakra-enhanced strength in literally every fight. It's literally her go-to even against fodder. Wtf are you talking about? Meanwhile, the only times we've seen Ay use Lariat against opponents is when he had a PARTNER or his opponent was Bee himself lmao.


Yeah..like how she did it when Kabuto was kicking her ass. That was the first fight she was in and all she did was cry. Or like how against Madara she could have gone Byakugo amped immediately but somehow did not and used her regular CES. 
And no.. CES is not byakugo amp. Read what I said. 
Her CES isn't enough to one shot A . He duked with the Hachibi ffs.


----------



## Leaf Hurricane (Aug 19, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Gee, someone should've told Hidan that, I guess. I see no proof of this though.


Hidan is an outlierin the ninja verse. Shit argument... Not even touching this.


Aegon Targaryen said:


> She doesn't need to perform any hand signs or new jutsu when SoAH is active...


She needs her hands to summon Katsuyu to fix her up if her head is separated. No matter how much chakra she has stored unless her brain isn't sending electrical signals to her nervous system and in turn to her limbs she isn't doing anything.


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 19, 2020)

Rock Lee like a Hurricane said:


> He literally punched a hole through juugo.. What are you talking?





You do realize *that's not going to stop Tsunade at all*, right? She's no diffed shit like that in P1, bro.

Also, Juugo (and Suigetsu) reacted to Ay's initial speeds. Juugo was able to even put up a guard either after or midway during Ay's mid-blitz - Tsunade can do the same and even better considering that her healing powers surpass the Sage Seal user's own.



Rock Lee like a Hurricane said:


> Rep is enough... He knows she is crazy strong



Yes, and?



Rock Lee like a Hurricane said:


> Unlike A, Madara wanted to put her in her place by toying with her
> Unlike A, Madara was toying with her.
> Unlike A, Madara knows he is far superior to the 5 combined and was clearly enjoying the superiority



Madara was *also trying to kill her* - toying with her or otherwise - and *was aware she could regenerate from lesser wounds*.

He had no problem bisecting Tsunade and dropping a tree on her, which is literally _harder_ than just cutting her head off. Why not do it?



Rock Lee like a Hurricane said:


> Madara could have once he bisected her



So he took the time to bisect her (even leave a Wood Style tree on her to prevent both halves from stitching together) but* not *decapitate her...yeah, I don't think that line of thinking makes any sense, bruv. Sorry.



Rock Lee like a Hurricane said:


> but instead lost interest and left further proving that unlike A, Madara was fucking around



Too bad mindset has nothing to do with it.



Rock Lee like a Hurricane said:


> Yeah..like how she did it when Kabuto was kicking her ass. That was the first fight she was in and all she did was cry



Are you seriously comparing a way out of her prime Tsunade suffering from hemophobia and a lack of fighting spirit to the Tsunade of P2? Never mind the fact that literally minutes after Kabuto ''kicking her ass'' she proceeded to curbstomp an equally gimped Orochimaru lmao.



Rock Lee like a Hurricane said:


> Or like how against Madara she could have gone Byakugo amped immediately but somehow did not and used her regular CES
> 
> And no.. CES is not byakugo amp. Read what I said.
> 
> Her CES isn't enough to one shot A



Based on what evidence?

Even P1 Tsunade's strength feats are easily at least on par with Ay's and P2 Tsunade even without the SoAH amp should be significantly stronger due to not being rusty any more.



Rock Lee like a Hurricane said:


> He duked with the Hachibi ffs.



Ay's dad is the one who did this, not Ay himself.

P1 Tsunade was able to neutralize a giant summon comparable in size to Gyuki.



Rock Lee like a Hurricane said:


> Hidan is an outlierin the ninja verse. Shit argument... Not even touching this



No, yours is a shit argument. You just made that ''outlier'' part up lmao.



Rock Lee like a Hurricane said:


> She needs her hands to summon Katsuyu to fix her up if her head is separated



No, she doesn't. 

Madara dropped a tree on her weakened, bisected self to make sure she couldn't regenerate.



Rock Lee like a Hurricane said:


> No matter how much chakra she has stored unless her brain isn't sending electrical signals to her nervous system and in turn to her limbs she isn't doing anything.



Or maybe she'd just...regenerate a new body from her head?

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## StarWanderer (Aug 19, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Also, Juugo (and Suigetsu) reacted to Ay's initial speeds. Juugo was able to even put up a guard either after or midway during Ay's mid-blitz - Tsunade can do the same and even better considering that her healing powers surpass the Sage Seal user's own.



Tsunade cant do the same for two reasons:

1. She is slower than Juugo.
2. Ei might utilise V1 the way he did against KCM Naruto.

The t*twank continues, i guess.


----------



## Leaf Hurricane (Aug 19, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> You do realize *that's not going to stop Tsunade at all*, right? She's no diffed shit like that in P1, bro.


Still doesn't negate the fact that he did punch a hole through juugo and I wasn't wrong. 


Aegon Targaryen said:


> Madara was *also trying to kill her* - toying with her or otherwise - and *was aware she could regenerate from lesser wounds*.
> 
> He had no problem bisecting Tsunade and dropping a tree on her, which is literally _harder_ than just cutting her head off. Why not do it?


The fact that he didn't even wait to finish the job thoroughly proves how not interested he was. If he wanted her dead.. He would have killed her instead of breaking their will and dropping a tree and hoping they'd eventually die. 


Aegon Targaryen said:


> Based on what evidence?
> 
> Even P1 Tsunade's strength feats are easily at least on par with Ay's and P2 Tsunade even without the SoAH amp should be significantly stronger due to not being rusty any more.


What are p1 tsunades strength feats.. She couldn't even kill an armless Oro with a clean hit to the face.


Aegon Targaryen said:


> Are you seriously comparing a way out of her prime Tsunade suffering from hemophobia and a lack of fighting spirit to the Tsunade of P2? Never mind the fact that literally minutes after Kabuto ''kicking her ass'' she proceeded to curbstomp an equally gimped Orochimaru lmao.


Yet she didn't hesitate to open with a CES kick when Orochimaru came to bargain with her. She can't be so rusty that she forgets to uses her strength one moment and  uses it fine earlier. She could have oneshot kabuto when he stabbed her if she actually foghta how people here say she does.


Aegon Targaryen said:


> Ay's dad is the one who did this, not Ay himself.
> 
> P1 Tsunade was able to neutralize a giant summon comparable in size to Gyuki.


You are really going for the size argument? Giant snake is not equal to a bijuu.. 
Naruto as a kid stopped a boss sized snake. Is he as strong to stop actual boss summons now? Or gor that matter a bijuu?
And it was A4 who snapped Hachibi's horn. So he did fight him. 


Aegon Targaryen said:


> No, yours is a shit argument. You just made that ''outlier'' part up lmao.


Hidan is an immortal. Immortality in the ninja world is an outlier. Learn to understand the meaning of the word and the context it is being used in before mouthing off. 
And even Hidan needed help getting his head to his body.


Aegon Targaryen said:


> No, she doesn't.
> 
> Madara dropped a tree on her weakened, bisected self to make sure she couldn't regenerate.


But he still didn't kill her thoroughly. You talk as if Madara was unable to kill her no matter how hard he tried. But the fact is if he wanted her dead he could have just Incinerated her at any point after that. This just proves he lost interest in actually finishing the job. This is not a feat for Tsunade. 


Aegon Targaryen said:


> Or maybe she'd just...regenerate a new body from her head?


You need to prove that one. AFAIK it can inly regen limbs... Not an entire body.


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 19, 2020)

Rock Lee like a Hurricane said:


> Still doesn't negate the fact that he did punch a hole through juugo and I wasn't wrong



It didn't even kill Juugo lmao - the dude even got off one more attack. It certainly won't kill Tsunade. 

In fact, she can use the opportunity to strike Ay with a heavy blow and heal off any damage.



Rock Lee like a Hurricane said:


> The fact that he didn't even wait to finish the job thoroughly proves how not interested he was



Baseless comment. You were asked to answer why Madara didn't just cut Tsunade's head off if that's such a simple way of killing her (which you seem to think it is). If it's _so _simple to just cut her head off, why didn't Madara just fucking do that? Saying ''he was not interested'' isn't an answer when the guy went to the trouble of *cleaving Tsunade in half and dropping a Wood Style tree on her to ensure the halves don't rejoin*. That's pretty fucking thorough, and cutting her head off is literally no more difficult than cleaving her in half and dropping a giant tree on her. It would be _easier_, if anything, and a more permanent solution to boot.



Rock Lee like a Hurricane said:


> What are p1 tsunades strength feats



Is a ? 



Rock Lee like a Hurricane said:


> She couldn't even kill an armless Oro with a clean hit to the face



What does being armless have to do with anything? Being armless doesn't make you less durable. You do know Orochimaru is a durable friend, right? He literally no-selled  and . This comment alone earns you a neg. Imagine wanting proof Tsunade is strong or using her failure to kill  (who by the way _immediately fled the battlefield after being hit_) as evidence against her lmao. 

Seriously, what the fuck is this post? Even Star Wanderer or whatever that guy's name is hasn't posted garbage like this.



Rock Lee like a Hurricane said:


> Yet she didn't hesitate to open with a CES kick when Orochimaru came to bargain with her. She can't be so rusty that she forgets to uses her strength one moment and  uses it fine earlier



It's not about ''forgetting''...you do know that, right? Tsunade wasn't just rusty,  and went up against a full strength Kabuto who dismantled her super strength before she could use it against him. It's really simple if you read the manga.

She could have oneshot kabuto when he stabbed her if she actually foghta how people here say she does[/QUOTE]

Imagine comparing a Tsunade  to her . Dumb fucking comparison.



Rock Lee like a Hurricane said:


> You are really going for the size argument? Giant snake is not equal to a bijuu



Considering Manda is equal or superior to Gamabunta and Gamabunta was able to cripple a Tailed Beast, Manda just might be.

In fact, Manda blocked a sword strike that .



Rock Lee like a Hurricane said:


> Naruto as a kid stopped a boss sized snake



Nope, never happened. Naruto stopped _much smaller snakes_. Naruto's snakes were the size of the one in the swamp here.

Imagine bringing in Kid Naruto to downplay Tsunade's strength lmao. I swear, this is some Maru tier shit.



Rock Lee like a Hurricane said:


> Is he as strong to stop actual boss summons now?
> 
> Or gor that matter a bijuu?



Tsunade stopped an actual boss summon, so I don't know what the fuck you're doing with this comparison.



Rock Lee like a Hurricane said:


> And it was A4 who snapped Hachibi's horn. So he did fight him



That's like saying Sakura fought Kaguya or P1 Sasuke fought Zabuza. 



Rock Lee like a Hurricane said:


> Hidan is an immortal. Immortality in the ninja world is an outlier. Learn to understand the meaning of the word and the context it is being used in before mouthing off



Hidan isn't permanently immortal - he will die eventually, according to Kishimoto himself. Also, it's interesting you have the nerve to accuse me of ''mouthing off'', considering that the Databook and Tsunade herself both say she can never die in battle. 



Rock Lee like a Hurricane said:


> And even Hidan needed help getting his head to his body



Sucks to be him. Tsunade doesn't have that weakness - which is why Madara dropped a tree on her and didn't just cut her in half.



Rock Lee like a Hurricane said:


> But he still didn't kill her thoroughly



Madara literally cut her in half and dropped a fucking tree to separate both halves to boot. 

That is the _definition _of thorough. What he did is literally_ harder_ than trying to decapitate her.



Rock Lee like a Hurricane said:


> You talk as if Madara was unable to kill her no matter how hard he tried



What he did is literally harder than trying to decapitate her. 



Rock Lee like a Hurricane said:


> But the fact is if he wanted her dead



Are we really arguing he *didn't *want her dead now? That's just fucking delusional.



Rock Lee like a Hurricane said:


> he could have just Incinerated her at any point after that. This just proves he lost interest in actually finishing the job



That's not even decapitation and would be harder anyway. Don't change the topic.



Rock Lee like a Hurricane said:


> This is not a feat for Tsunade



Yeah, it is, actually. 

You'd have to be fucking stupid to clear surviving *while torn in half, on low chakra, and having a Wood Style tree obstructing your halves from rejoining and yet still being able to rejoin both halves using Katsuyu but choosing not to do so to save the other Kage first, and still surviving long enough for Orochimaru's team to arrive and provide medical support* isn't a feat.



Rock Lee like a Hurricane said:


> You need to prove that one. AFAIK it can inly regen limbs... Not an entire body.



Who said she has to regenerate an entire body?


----------



## Lyren (Aug 20, 2020)

@Aegon Targaryen dont waste your time lol, hes not worth it


----------



## StarWanderer (Aug 20, 2020)

It's surprising this thread lasted so long. 

A featless character in terms of speed, that was easily outmaneuvered by Part 1 Kabuto, somehow can counter-attack and avoid the blitz from someone who can catch Hebi Sasuke with active 3TS and pressure both KCM Naruto and Bee. 

This is rediculous.


----------



## Marvel (Sep 13, 2020)

A4 takes her head off


----------



## Marvel (Sep 13, 2020)

StarWanderer said:


> It's surprising this thread lasted so long.
> 
> A featless character in terms of speed, that was easily outmaneuvered by Part 1 Kabuto, somehow can counter-attack and avoid the blitz from someone who can catch Hebi Sasuke with active 3TS and pressure both KCM Naruto and Bee.
> 
> This is rediculous.


Welcome to the NBD bud. Don't forget to pick up your god tier Sakura/Tsunade pamphlet on the way out.


----------



## Marvel (Sep 13, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> Few sentences and so much bullshit, not Worth responding to this shit



Aegon just handed you an L.


----------



## Siskebabas (Sep 13, 2020)

Marvel said:


> Aegon just handed you an L.


Did WorldsStrongest left you that you're looking for your new husband?


----------



## Marvel (Sep 13, 2020)

Siskebabas said:


> Did WorldsStrongest left you that you're looking for you new husband?


English please.


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 13, 2020)




----------



## MHA massive fan (Sep 13, 2020)

11 pages of straw grasping 
Sad sad I’ll pick my pamphlet on the way out


----------



## Xelioszzapporro (Nov 1, 2020)

Speedyamell said:


> A4 gets clapped. Ignoring that tsunade was literally about to hand him his ass when he was being a nuisance to naruto and bee for a moment..
> 
> tsunade literally always outdid Ay in the same situation.. like _always_
> 
> ...


Yep Tsunade >> A4.....FACTS.

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 1, 2020)

Necro'd.


----------



## Xelioszzapporro (Nov 1, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Necro'd.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Symmetry (Nov 2, 2020)

Tsunade cleanly outperformed A4 in the exact same scenario as him. A4 nearly died to the five Madara susanoo clones and failed to do anything to any of the clones, and required Onoki’s help to survive.

Meanwhile, Tsunade incapacitated one of the clones, and did not require any external help at all, and was not about to die.

Tsunade then saves the entire gokage from Madara’s fire jutsu by outspending Mei’s jutsu activation speed.

Both parties used their chakra modes, but Tsunade’s lasted longer, AND she was both fighting and healing, whilst A4 was only fighting. She even was able to keep the other kage alive far after the battle was over, so if you want to go by _pure _feats, Tsunade genuinely has better stamina then A4, and could theoretically outlast A4 if she isn’t killed.

If you also want to go off of _pure _feats, A4 genuinely can’t harm Katsuyu ever, meaning he would waste a lot of time and a lot of chakra before the summon timer runs out (sorry fellow Tsunade fans, I can’t in good faith argue Katsuyu beats A4 LOL) 

A4 is faster and Tsunade is stronger, but Tsunade has insane regen whilst A4 does not, and a slug summon to boot. Even if A4 got a direct hit and planted his arm firmly into her chest, Tsunade would still hit him. At this point in time A4 has no idea about the 100 healings jutsu, and so Tsunade could use it to surprise attack him.

Infact, Tsunade was able to land a direct hit on MADARA’S susanoo before he could launch a counter attack despite him looking directly at her because of the shock value of springing back to life.

There is zero reason to assume A4 reacts to this attack when Madara fell for it and was only protected by his susanoo, meaning that A4 would early on be extremely wounded.

Because of that, I’d give it to Tsunade as well. Even the five Madara wood clones who were about to kill A4 could not decapitate Tsunade, and a gravely wounded A4 plus partially fatigued from Katsuyu would likely have his hands full trying. High diff but I think Tsunade takes it.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 3, 2020)

Orochimaru op said:


> Tsunade cleanly outperformed A4 in the exact same scenario as him. A4 nearly died to the five Madara susanoo clones and failed to do anything to any of the clones, and required Onoki’s help to survive.
> 
> Meanwhile, Tsunade incapacitated one of the clones, and did not require any external help at all, and was not about to die.


I love how people act as if what you said isn't the case and Tsunade somehow did worse lmao.


----------

