# Jack Nicholson's Joker or Heath Ledger's Joker?



## Chee (Jul 19, 2008)

Now that the majority of NF has seen The Dark Knight in its entireity, I believe it is judgement day. 

Which was the better Joker? Jack Nicholson, Heath Ledger, Cesar Romero or Mark Hamill (Batman: Animated Serious Series)?


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## martryn (Jul 19, 2008)

Heath really makes me uncomfortable as the Joker, which I think is a much better job that Nicholson.  Not that Nicholson was a bad joker, just that I think Ledger's interpretation of the role was more spot on, and personally I think it led to his death.


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## Saint_Spike (Jul 19, 2008)

As Much As I Like Jack Nicholson's, Heath Ledger Is The Best..... EVER


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## Gentleman (Jul 19, 2008)

I'm pretty sure this poll is gonna be pretty one sided. Jack Nicholson did a nice job playing the Joker, but Heath really just took this role to the next level. He played the Joker like he needed to be played and really just captured him perfectly.


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## crazymtf (Jul 19, 2008)

Do i even need to say it?


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## Giorno Giovannax (Jul 19, 2008)

Why so serious?


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## Chee (Jul 19, 2008)

Giorno Giovanna said:


> Why so serious?



I know it was mostly the script, but Heath Ledger's lines were really memorable over Jack's Joker. 

I mean "Why so serious?" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "He stole my balloons."


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## Superrazien (Jul 19, 2008)

You cant top Heaths Joker. Mark Hamil was a pretty good Joker though.


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## Bender (Jul 19, 2008)

This poll should have been Heath Ledger vs. Mark Hammill 

Either way Heath wins


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## Giorno Giovannax (Jul 19, 2008)

Chee said:


> I know it was mostly the script, but Heath Ledger's lines were really memorable over Jack's Joker.
> 
> I mean "Why so serious?" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "He stole my balloons."




Oh must definitely, especially his made-up stories about his scars. LMAO.

And why so serious is so damn catchy, I used it nearly every day.


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## Chee (Jul 19, 2008)

Giorno Giovanna said:


> Oh must definitely, especially his made-up stories about his scars. LMAO.
> 
> And why so serious is so damn catchy, I used it nearly every day.



I went up to my little brother (who hasn't seen the movie yet) with a pencil and asked him if he wanted to see a magic trick.


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## Rukia (Jul 19, 2008)

1.  Heath Ledger
2.  Mark Hammil
3.  Jack Nicholson
4.  Romero


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## Giorno Giovannax (Jul 19, 2008)

Chee said:


> I went up to my little brother (who hasn't seen the movie yet) with a pencil and asked him if he wanted to see a magic trick.






That's just wrong but so funny. But when I saw it on theaters, I literally crapped my pants because it was just so awesome and really set the tone for the movie.


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## Saint_Spike (Jul 19, 2008)

Chee said:


> I went up to my little brother (who hasn't seen the movie yet) with a pencil and asked him if he wanted to see a magic trick.



Awesome..........


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## Chee (Jul 19, 2008)

> I literally crapped my pants



That had to suck. 

Did you sit in your theatre seat for 2 hours with shit in your pants?


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## Giorno Giovannax (Jul 19, 2008)

Chee said:


> That had to suck.



I couldn't help it

(j/k, I didn't but if I could, I would have because it was just that brutal)


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## Chee (Jul 19, 2008)

When that scene came along I was like, "Holy _SHIT_! Oh my god, that was awesome."

It was so swift and perfectly delievered.


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## Hellion (Jul 19, 2008)

Ledger.  It was all the subtle things that he did, that made him feel like the Joker.  Even the way that he had multiple stories for his scars was great  And when he was walking away from the hospital=priceless


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## Giorno Giovannax (Jul 19, 2008)

I know. I heard people talking about it but I had no clue what it was until it happened and I was like, "WHAT THE FUCK?" 

I just wished he didn't have to do it to a black man.


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## Gentleman (Jul 19, 2008)

What difference does it make what kind of man he did it to? The scene was awesome and so is Ledger!


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## Chee (Jul 19, 2008)

> I just wished he didn't have to do it to a black man.



Why so serious?


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## Giorno Giovannax (Jul 19, 2008)

S P O T said:


> What difference does it make what kind of man he did it to? The scene was awesome and so is Ledger!



I know but as a fellow black man, I felt some pity but then I lol'ed

@Chee: You are so getting fucking repped for that. Awesome.


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## Ryuk (Jul 19, 2008)

Batman The Animated Series Joker > All

Toon Disney just had a Batman the animated series marathon all staring the Joker. It was great. Btw I didn't see the dark knight yet.


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## masamune1 (Jul 19, 2008)

Chee said:


> Now that the *majority of NF* has seen The Dark Knight in its entireity, I believe it is judgement day.
> 
> Which was the better Joker? Jack Nicholson, Heath Ledger, Cesar Romero or Mark Hamill (Batman: Animated Serious Series)?



You mean the majority of _Americans_ on NF forum! You bastards!


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## Giorno Giovannax (Jul 19, 2008)

masamune1 said:


> You mean the majority of _Americans_ on NF forum! You bastards!




Dude, why so serious?


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## Chee (Jul 19, 2008)

Ryuk said:


> Batman The Animated Series Joker > All
> 
> Toon Disney just had a Batman the animated series marathon all staring the Joker. It was great. Btw I didn't see the dark knight yet.



You'll be blown away by Heath's performance. I love Mark Hamills version to death, but Heath totally won.

And crap, I totally forgot about the marathon. Missed it. 



masamune1 said:


> You mean the majority of _Americans_ on NF forum! You bastards!


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## masamune1 (Jul 19, 2008)

Giorno Giovanna said:


> Dude, why so serious?



'Cause I won't be seeing this film 'till Friday!


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## Stalin (Jul 19, 2008)

For me, its mark hamill, iI'm gonna see the dark knight tommorrow. But mark hamill has the perfect voice though.


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## Hellion (Jul 19, 2008)

People shouldn't vote until they see TDK


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## Chee (Jul 19, 2008)

Kaze said:


> People shouldn't vote until they see TDK



I agree. They will want to change it later when they do.


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## Hellion (Jul 19, 2008)

Chee said:


> I agree. They will want to change it later when they do.



This is a fact


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## Chee (Jul 19, 2008)

Kaze said:


> This is a fact



Has that smiley been requested to be added yet?


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## Hellion (Jul 19, 2008)

I dunno.  But it should be :ysosrs


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## Giorno Giovannax (Jul 19, 2008)

masamune1 said:


> 'Cause I won't be seeing this film 'till Friday!



You'll understand the quote once you see the movie.


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## masamune1 (Jul 19, 2008)

Giorno Giovanna said:


> You'll understand the quote once you see the movie.



I've seen the trailer (and you're sig, which is all over the forum/ internet); I know the quote.

It's just that I think that not getting to see the movie _for a week_ is a genuinelly serious issue.


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## Shark Skin (Jul 19, 2008)

Heath's hands down. I liked Hamil's interpretation though and Jack's too. But Heath was just too spot on to even consider anyone else.


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## MartialHorror (Jul 19, 2008)

Nicholson went for more of a comic book version, while Ledger went for a more realistic version. I'd say Ledgers is scarier.


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## Megaharrison (Jul 19, 2008)

Definetly Ledger. Nicholson did a good job and was a sort of transition point, still retaining the campy "harmless prankster" version of the Joker and combining it with the dark/psychotic real version of the Joker.

Ledger created a truly classical villain, I actually got uncomfortable during his first "Wanna know how I got these scars?!" speech. At the same the "pencil trick" and him walking out of the hospital was hilarious. He was just as the Joker should be: terrifyingly insane yet still able to be funny at times.

And lol@Ceser Romero being on the poll. I don't blame him for that Joker being terrible, he acted based on what the script and TV show demanded and did so quite well.


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## Jotun (Jul 19, 2008)

Well, they were all great for their time, except Romero imo. You can't have a Ledger Joker in The Animated Series, and if Ledger's joker was in Burton's Batman...

But, I can say after seeing the movie, Ledger is the best hands down


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## Starrk (Jul 19, 2008)

'My Dad turns to me and says, 'Why so serious?"

'Let's put a smile on that face...'


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## Auron (Jul 19, 2008)

Heath by far...its not even close to me.  Jack's joker was not really intimidating at all he just played it like a clown and was never scary or intimidating throughout the whole movie.  Ledger tho was scary, psychotic, funny all at the same time. The perfect blend.  Mark Hamill gets props too for the classic joker voice one of the greatest animated voices ever


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## Spencer_Gator (Jul 19, 2008)

Heath by miles.


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## Hyroku Sanada (Jul 19, 2008)

Heath wins. Never smile.


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## Chee (Jul 20, 2008)

> Jack's joker was not really intimidating at all he just played it like a clown



When he danced to Prince, I lost all respect for him.


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## C_Akutabi (Jul 20, 2008)

masamune1 said:


> You mean the majority of _Americans_ on NF forum! You bastards!



And Aussie's. It was actually released there first. 

Ledger's was the best by far. But I'm watching the 89 Batman right now and still loving Nicholson's.


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## Tendou Souji (Jul 20, 2008)

Heath by far. Nothing can compare to that performance. NOTHING.

If you want to see Nicholson, he's on ABC Family atm. Or Fox Family or whatever Whose Line is on. Just fyi.


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## Gritz (Jul 20, 2008)

I haven't seen The Dark Knight yet, but Heath's version sounds awesome.  But until I see the movie, I'm gonna have to say Mark Hammil's version.  Mark's version was funny as HELL!! Mark did a good job of combining the hilarious clown as well as the sadistic and horrific killer.  And that laugh...I doubt many can top Mark's Joker Laugh.

From what I've seen though, Heath's Joker is gonna KICK ASS!!


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## Rule (Jul 20, 2008)

SasuSaku - Shattering my wings, The steel blade of a knife

SasuSaku - Shattering my wings, The steel blade of a knife

Nough said!


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## Gooba (Jul 20, 2008)

Heath's was amazing.  He created his own version of him which was perfect for the movie, and did it _amazingly_.  One of the best villains ever.


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## Bear Walken (Jul 20, 2008)

Auron said:


> Heath by far...its not even close to me.  *Jack's joker was not really intimidating at all he just played it like a clown and was never scary or intimidating throughout the whole movie.*  Ledger tho was scary, psychotic, funny all at the same time. The perfect blend.  Mark Hamill gets props too for the classic joker voice one of the greatest animated voices ever



Wasn't that the whole point ? 

Burton's Batman was family friendly after all.


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## Roy (Jul 20, 2008)

Heath wins


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## Aeon (Jul 20, 2008)

Heath's was funny and frightening at the same time.


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## Stallyns808 (Jul 20, 2008)

I've always loved Mark Hamil as the Joker best, but Heath's performance in the role was epic.  I really wish he got a bit more screen time.  The best part is where he shows up in a nurses dress.


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## Graham Aker (Jul 20, 2008)

Voted for Mark Hamil, but between Jack and Heath... Heath for sure.
And no votes for Cesar Romero?


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## C_Akutabi (Jul 20, 2008)

Graham Acre said:


> And no votes for Cesar Romero?



The guy challenges Batman to a surfing contest. Take that as you will


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## martryn (Jul 20, 2008)

Ledger is the only person I'm going to think of when I hear people mention The Joker.


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## chrisp (Jul 20, 2008)

I haven't seen 'The Dark Knight', but martryn, The Joker can't be played by a single person, he's is one of the most complex characters ever created. 

A true Batman-fan will never forget Jack Nicholsons role as The Joker when talking about this character.


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## CalRahhh (Jul 20, 2008)

I'm assuming this was a rhetorical question, the OP must have known that the majority would answer Heath Ledger  Which is also my vote.


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## Rukia (Jul 20, 2008)

I don't like Hammil being on the poll that much.  All Hammil did was provide the voice.  That's a hell of a lot easier than looking the part and doing the mannerisms as well.

Still...with this list...I would still be inclined to say that Hammil was the 2nd best.


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## C_Akutabi (Jul 20, 2008)

Rukia said:


> That's a hell of a lot easier than looking the part and doing the mannerisms as well.



Define "mannerisms." Hammel apparently got REALLY into it often. 

Also define easier. Voice acting and regular acting both have their challenges that outdo the other. But I disagree since I believe it's a lot easier to screw up voice acting than it is movie acting, thus good VAing is harder. You got to put on a good performance with just the director's guidance. No sets, and often no one to work off of since they often record alone.


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## Rukia (Jul 20, 2008)

Royal_Devil1 said:


> Define "mannerisms." Hammel apparently got REALLY into it often.
> 
> Also define easier. Voice acting and regular acting both have their challenges that outdo the other. But I disagree since I believe it's a lot easier to screw up voice acting than it is movie acting, thus good VAing is harder. You got to put on a good performance with just the director's guidance. No sets, and often no one to work off of since they often record alone.


When I mentioned mannerisms...I was referring to Ledger's hunched posture, his licking his lips, his chewing on his gums.  That part of Ledger's performance is what I considered particularly astonishing about his performance.

Your analysis sounds sensible enough though.  Perhaps I am not giving Voice Actors enough credit.


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## C_Akutabi (Jul 20, 2008)

Rukia said:


> When I mentioned mannerisms...I was referring to Ledger's hunched posture, his licking his lips, his chewing on his gums.  That part of Ledger's performance is what I considered particularly astonishing about his performance.



And according to those that watched him record, Hamill did a lot of the Joker's mannerisms. Performances that good usually come out only when the actor is so into it he's acting it out with more than just his mouth. His body gets into it. So I'm sure some scenes in the cartoons that had him licking his lips, chewing on his gums, and going into all kinds of postures to help him get it right. I don't see how anyone could sit still and with a straight face while voicing animated Joker. Hell, here's a few small descriptions. 

I still think Ledger's the best live action but I will probably always end up fluctuating between him and Hamill''s voice when someone mentions the Joker. Basically, I think their too different to compare but similar enough that I can't really chose which one is definitive. 

I'll at least give Ledger the benefit of always being the psycho killer Joker instead of some episodes of Batman that had to tone him down for television.


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## Even (Jul 20, 2008)

Two words: Pencil trick 

HEATH LEDGER FOR OSCAR!!!!


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## escamoh (Jul 20, 2008)

Ryuk said:


> Batman *The Animated Series Joker > All*
> 
> Toon Disney just had a Batman the animated series marathon all staring the Joker. It was great. Btw I didn't see the dark knight yet.


QFT

heath's joker was still effin brilliant though.


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## chrisp (Jul 20, 2008)

Don't anyone see the greatness in Jack Nicholsons The Joker?


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## The Drunken Monkey (Jul 20, 2008)

Mark Hamill and Heath Ledger are both great. I can't decide between the two.


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## Chee (Jul 20, 2008)

Zarigani said:


> Don't anyone see the greatness in Jack Nicholsons The Joker?



I just watched it again last night, I don't see the greatness at all.


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## Naruto Sensei (Jul 20, 2008)

Heath hands down. Jack was good, but Heath played more into the psychotic side of the Joker which I liked a lot.


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## Kenpachi_Uchiha (Jul 20, 2008)

I grew up on Hamill as The Joker. It was a hard choice for me but I barely chose Hamill over Ledger.


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## Clue (Jul 20, 2008)

I've only seen Nicholson and Heath as the Joker, so between those two I'd say Heath.  I think he managed to be comedic, insane, and morbid.  He made me both smile and cringe, and I liked him even though his character is despicable with no real redeemable qualities.


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## Purgatory (Jul 20, 2008)

Heath Ledger died after playing with the mindset of the Joker. He's weak. Generally, TAS Joker and Jack's Joker tie at first, with Romero's Joker at second. Realistically, Jack's Joker is at first, with Heath at dead last. I can't believe the amount of people who voted for the same guy who got boned from a movie about two gay cowboys.


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## Lord Yu (Jul 20, 2008)

Ledger over Hamill by a centimeter but that fluctuates. I grew up on the animated series.

Painkiller fuck off with the homophobia.


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## The Drunken Monkey (Jul 20, 2008)

Come to think of it. I'm not too much of a fan of how Ledger's Joker does his "Joker Victims".

The way Jack does it is much more fucked up, if you ask me. But they're both fucked up either way when I think about it. lol


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## Chee (Jul 20, 2008)

^^ I like how Ledger's Joker did his victims. Really tortured them. 



Painkiller said:


> Heath Ledger died after playing with the mindset of the Joker. He's weak. Generally, TAS Joker and Jack's Joker tie at first, with Romero's Joker at second. Realistically, Jack's Joker is at first, with Heath at dead last. I can't believe the amount of people who voted for the same guy who got boned from a movie about two gay cowboys.



Please die, please.


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## Adonis (Jul 20, 2008)

Chee said:


> Please die, please.



Preferably in a ditch filled with rabid donkeys.


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## Kenpachi_Uchiha (Jul 20, 2008)

Painkiller said:


> Heath Ledger died after playing with the mindset of the Joker. He's weak. Generally, TAS Joker and Jack's Joker tie at first, with Romero's Joker at second. Realistically, Jack's Joker is at first, with Heath at dead last. I can't believe the amount of people who voted for the same guy who got boned from a movie about two gay cowboys.



Your opinion means less than nothing.


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## Rule (Jul 20, 2008)

You blinded Heath ledger fanboys. You guys act as if you've never seen a freakin character in a movie that just blows crap up all the time? The Joker didn't even have alot of scenes in the Dark Knight yet your praising the guy like he was something totally different in Batman or in the theatres in general? Wow, I haven't seen such an overrating performance by fans since Tobi Mcguire played Peter Parker's Spider-man. Any other good actor could have walked around and acted like a psycho maniac with very little dialogue and blow crap up too. Heath's performance was good but nothing that stood out from many other villains from previous Batman's.


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## Chee (Jul 20, 2008)

Wow, not even gonna bother with that one, Rule. Can people get even more dumber?


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## Purgatory (Jul 20, 2008)

Chee said:


> Please die, please.



Can you not handle the fact that he DIED as a result in attempting to take a role such as The Joker? It's simple enough. He couldn't handle the stress, ultimately leading to his untimely demise.


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## Chee (Jul 20, 2008)

Painkiller said:


> Can you not handle the fact that he DIED as a result in attempting to take a role such as The Joker? It's simple enough. He couldn't handle the stress, ultimately leading to his untimely demise.



_That_ is a fucking rumor.

He went through a fucking divorce and he couldn't be with his only daughter for Christmas. He was doing another film at the moment and tried to relax, he couldn't sleep and was tired during filming and that's when he mixed the wrong drugs together.

Get your head out of your ass and have some respect for the man.


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## Adonis (Jul 20, 2008)

Rule said:


> You blinded Heath ledger fanboys. You guys act as if you've never seen a freakin character in a movie that just blows crap up all the time?



I could minimalize any performance if I leave out details.

For example: "You blinded Jack Nicholson fanboys. You guys act as if you've never seen Jack act like an over-the-top version of himself before *coughTheShiningcough*



> The Joker didn't even have alot of scenes in the Dark Knight yet your praising the guy like he was something totally different in Batman or in the theatres in general?



As opposed to too much screentime ala Jack in Batman '89? Nolan has stated he made a conscious decision not to have a Batman film revolve around the Joker as if he were THE main character. Also, quantity=/= quality.



> Wow, I haven't seen such an overrating performance by fans since Tobi Mcguire played Peter Parker's Spider-man. Any other good actor could have walked around and acted like a psycho maniac with very little dialogue and blow crap up too.



Again, ignoring details and nuances in an attempt to minimalize and dismiss. Cute.



> Heath's performance was good but nothing that stood out from many other villains from previous Batman's.



Considering the Batman franchise's mediocre roster, the exception being Batman '89 and very arguably Forever, that's an outright lie.







			
				Painkiller said:
			
		

> Can you not handle the fact that he DIED as a result in attempting to take a role such as The Joker? It's simple enough. He couldn't handle the stress, ultimately leading to his untimely demise.



It has more to do with the fact that you're wrong. He was suffering from depression not due to the role, which he described as the most fun he had had in a role (sounds real stressed out), but for the reasons Chee described, he had chronic insominia and he was taking painkillers for a spine injury. That combination of medication is what killed him, not the role of the Joker.

I find the insinuation even more laughable which amounts to: Only a great like Jack could handle such a demanding role! Let's ignore that Nicholson hardly had to do any acting and simply channeled some of his The Shining lunacy. I'd wager you'd need a crowbar to remove your lips from Jack's cock.

Finally, there's the homophobic idiocy of "OMG, he was a gay cowboy! How could you guys vote for someone who played a gay guy!" which is completely irrelevant.

This is why you should die.


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## Chee (Jul 20, 2008)

Oh god, Adonis, you said everything I was gonna say. +rep


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## Rule (Jul 20, 2008)

Chee said:


> Wow, not even gonna bother with that one, Rule. Can people get even more dumber?



It wasn't meant for the fanboys, it was meant for the intelligent. So your good.


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## chrisp (Jul 20, 2008)

Chee said:


> I just watched it again last night, I don't see the greatness at all.



But you do like Cesar Romeros role as The Joker?

I haven't seen The Dark Knight, but critics (if I remember correctly) praised Jack Nicholson and the movie Batman. 

Why are there so many Heath Ledger whores here? Don't you enjoy the different 
interpretations of this complex character?


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## Rule (Jul 20, 2008)

Adonis said:


> I could minimalize any performance if I leave out details.
> 
> For example: "You blinded Jack Nicholson fanboys. You guys act as if you've never seen Jack act like an over-the-top version of himself before *coughTheShiningcough*



The shining and Batman? Jack played two different characters? What are you snorting the same stuff Ledger did (Hoho, that hurt em)? 



> As opposed to too much screentime ala Jack in Batman '89? Nolan has stated he made a conscious decision not to have a Batman film revolve around the Joker as if he were a main character. Also, quantity=/= quality.



No it doesn't but you don't need to have the story revolve around the joker for more scenes and much of a bigger role? Are you just making excuses here. 



> Again, ignoring details and nuances in an attempt to minimalize and dismiss. Cute.



Nah that ain't ignoring details that's what it is.




> Considering the Batman franchise's mediocre roster, the exception being Batman '89 and very arguably Forever, that's an outright lie.



Batman 89 and Batman forever is what I was reffering to.


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## Adonis (Jul 20, 2008)

Rule said:


> The shining and Batman? Jack played two different characters? What are you snorting the same stuff Ledger did (Hoho, that hurt em)?



Was there an idea behind all of that incoherent rambling?



> No it doesn't but you don't need to have the story revolve around the joker for more scenes? Are you just making excuses here.



Why do you end statements with question marks and questions with periods?

I don't have to make excuses for a *moot* point because I don't think you're right. You felt he wasn't there enough and others felt it was just right. 

And unless you're arguing the entire movie should have been changed and other things should have been cut/altered, the movie was already 2 and a half hours.



> Nah that ain't ignoring details that's what it is.



Stupid comments like this make you not responding to. If you're just going to insist upon stupid claims without arguing why, we can't really argue, can we? 



> Batman 89 and Batman forever is what I was reffering to.



I meant Batman Returns. You actually like that Joel Schumacher directed turd Forever? 

End of argument.

It's worth noting that it's not impossible to like both Jack and Heath's interpretations of The Joker. They're both valid interpretations.


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## Chee (Jul 20, 2008)

> What are you snorting the same stuff Ledger did (Hoho, that hurt em)?



Wow. This really makes me loose faith in humanity.

Learn the shit before you start cracking jokes (and don't start making jokes about someone's death, wow, a whole new low there). He did no illegal drugs and he did not overdose. He mixed the wrong prescription drugs together on accident.

Get your head off your cock.



Zarigani said:


> But you do like Cesar Romeros role as The Joker?
> 
> I haven't seen The Dark Knight, but critics (if I remember correctly) praised Jack Nicholson and the movie Batman.
> 
> ...



I respect the different interperations on the character, that doesn't mean I have to like it.

Like Adonis said, what Jack did with the Joker wasn't all that different with Jack Torrance from the Shining. Heath Ledger, in every single way, was the Joker, but Jack Nicholson was just Jack Nicholson with facepaint.


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## Adonis (Jul 20, 2008)

Also, I'd like to note that it's not so much I'm a Heath fanboy as much as it is the fact that after rewatching Batman: The Animated Series, I realized his Joker wasn't as great as I remembered. His voice is perfect. But his actual dialogue is a lot tamer and lucid than I remembered.

At his peak, though, Hamill sweeps.


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## Rule (Jul 20, 2008)

Adonis said:


> Was there an idea behind all of that incoherent rambling?



Had to correct you that your comparison for roles was terrible and you were corrected., so yeah.



> Why do you end statements with question marks and questions with periods?
> 
> I don't have to make excuses for a *moot* point because I don't think you're right. You felt he wasn't there enough and others felt it was just right.
> 
> And unless you're arguing the entire movie should have been changed and other things should have been cut/altered, the movie was already 2 and a half hours.



Joker didn't have alot of scenes, for such a BIG role requires more scenes. You only think it's right cause your a Heath ledger fanboy. 



> Stupid comments like this make you not responding to. If you're just going to insist upon stupid claims without arguing why, we can't really argue, can we?


 
Your the one with no claims, An actor plays a maniac that just blows crap up and acts like a Psycho..Wow we havene't sen that before? Yes we have and a foolish fanboy like yourself does nothing but overrate it.



> I meant Batman Returns. You actually like that Joel Schumacher directed turd Forever.
> 
> End of argument.
> 
> It's worth noting that it's not impossible to like both Jack and Heath's interpretations of The Joker. They're both valid interpretations.



Nah, you just have bad taste my friend. The joker is the Joker and one played it better than the other in my opinion JACK did.


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## Chee (Jul 20, 2008)

Adonis said:


> Also, I'd like to note that it's not so much I'm a Heath fanboy as much as it is the fact that after rewatching Batman: The Animated Series, I realized his Joker wasn't as great as I remembered. His voice is perfect. But his actual dialogue is a lot tamer and lucid than I remembered.
> 
> At his peak, though, Hamill sweeps.



I wish they did more episodes with the Joker in it. 
Mark Hamill did an awesome job with the voice. 

I hate the Joker in the new series. Ugh.


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## Oda Oda no Mi (Jul 20, 2008)

The reason so many Batman fans enjoy Ledger's portrayal of because it closely resembles Alan Moore's version of the Joker from "The Killing Joke." It explores the psychoses that drives the Batman and the Joker to do what they do and why they are nearly mirror images of each other. Both men are the product of one "really bad day" (as the Joker put it), but reacted to their bad days differently. Both experienced a single, random act of cruelty and violence that shattered their worlds. Where the Batman decided to create order from chaos, to make the world less chaotic and random, the Joker decided to go with the flow, to become chaos itself.

Ledger's Joker also explores the manner which the Joker and Batman view each other. The Joker told Batman in the Dark Knight returns that Batman has always known that there was only one way to stop the Joker, but when he does, the Joker will have finally beaten him. On the flip side, the Joker doesn't really want to kill Batman, but he goes through the effort because to his twisted mind, the Batman is his only worthy adversary. With Batman, there's no one who would understand or appreciate his "jokes."


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## Superrazien (Jul 20, 2008)

Wait am I reading this right. People actually liked Nicklesons Joker? LMFAO!


----------



## Adonis (Jul 20, 2008)

Rule said:


> Had to correct you that your comparison for roles was terrible and you were corrected., so yeah.



What did you "correct" exactly?



> Joker didn't have alot of scenes, for such a BIG role requires more scenes. You only think it's right cause your a Heath ledger fanboy.



I'm not a Ledger fan. I've never seen him in any other movie and I've never been interested in him as an actor. I did, however, like his interpretation of the Joker. Please, try to avoid being a presumptuous ass.

Moving on, as I said, it's a moot point. I think the amount of screentime he had was sufficient. Would I object to more screentime? No, but I don't consider it a bad thing if my complaint towards an actor is that there wasn't enough of him. If I'm wanting more, that's typically indicative that I considered it a good performance.

And despite popular belief, it's still a Batman movie and I feel the antagonist shouldn't completely overshadow everyone else. That was my issue with Batman '89. Burton realized he had star power in Jack and abused it. 





> Your the one with no claims, An actor plays a maniac that just blows crap up and acts like a Psycho..Wow we havene't sen that before? Yes we have and a foolish fanboy like yourself does nothing but overrate it.



You're oversimplifying the performance and dismissing it. What am I supposed to do? Catalog every nuance of the performance? Why don't you show how Jack played more than a psycho that went around killing people? Bottomline: Both Jack and Heath's Joker is a psycho that kills people and that's essentially what the Joker is. What did you expect?



> Nah, you just have bad taste my friend. The joker is the Joker and one played it better than the other *in my opinion* JACK did.



Don't assert a claim as fact then hide behind the opinion shield. If it's your opinion, that's fine but when you start calling other people wrong and making assumptions about their reasons you better back that shit up.


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## Sunuvmann (Jul 20, 2008)

Ledger showed Nicholson a magic trick.


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## Rule (Jul 20, 2008)

Adonis said:


> What did you "correct" exactly?



Go reread the discussion.



> I'm not a Ledger fan. I've never seen him in any other movie and I've never been interested in him as an actor. I did, however, like his interpretation of the Joker. Please, try to avoid being a presumptuous ass.
> 
> Moving on, as I said, it's a moot point. I think the amount of screentime he had was sufficient. Would I object to more screentime? No, but I don't consider it a bad thing if my complaint towards an actor is that there wasn't enough. If I'm wanting more, that's typically indicative that I considered it a good performance.
> 
> And despite popular belief, it's still a Batman movie and I feel the antagonist shouldn't completely overshadow everyone else. That was my issue with Batman '89. Burton realized he had star power in Jack and abused it


. 

And you act as if that's a bad thing?



> You're oversimplifying the performance and dismissing it. What am I supposed to do? Catalog every nuance of the performance? Why don't you show how Jack played more than a psycho that went around killing people? Bottomline: Both Jack and Heath's Joker is a psycho that kills people and that's essentially what the Joker is. What did you expect?



That's my point....DAMN! So what the hell is with all this overexxagerated bull you Heath nutgrabbers are spewing? It's nonsense really.




> Don't assert a claim as fact then hide behind the opinion shield. If it's your opinion, that's fine but when you start calling other people wrong and making assumptions about their reasons you better back that shit up.



Oh I am sorry did I say my opinion let me get that out of there. Jack played a better Joker.


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## Adonis (Jul 20, 2008)

Rule said:


> Go reread the discussion.



I did, you're still not making sense.

. 



> And you act as if that's a bad thing?



Thus, we have a clash of preference. You prefer more Joker while I think the movie should aim toward balancing all of the characters. Are you honestly going to sit here and tell everyone who voted Ledger their preference is wrong? It's like claiming someone's wrong for liking blue over red.





> That's my point....DAMN! So what the hell is with all this overexxagerated bull you Heat nutgrabbers are spewing? It's nonsense really.



Erm...we think Heath played psycho w/ humorous overtones well? I don't agree with all of the hyperbole that this was the end-all performance but I do think he did an excellent job. Nor do I agree with the claims that no one can prefer Jack. It's PREFERENCE. Some people prefer Heath's interpretation and some prefer Jack's. Thing is, they're both valid and backed by the comic books.

Ultimately, it's a battle of Golden Age Joker (Jack Nicholson) vs. Silver Age (Heath Ledge) with Hamill's being an amalgamation of the two.





> Oh I am sorry did I say my opinion let me get that out of there. Jack is a better Joker, better dialogue, better style and wit!



Still opinion. Substantiating your claim would help but claiming=/=supporting. I could sit here and argue "Cesar Romero is the better Joker, better dialogue, better style, and wit!" See the problem?


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## Penance (Jul 20, 2008)

...Hard to say...


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## Rule (Jul 20, 2008)

Adonis said:


> I did, you're still not making sense.



Then you didn't read it.



> Thus, we have a clash of preference. You prefer more Joker while I think the movie should aim toward balancing all of the characters. Are you honestly going to sit here and tell everyone who voted Ledger their preference is wrong? It's like claiming someone's wrong for liking blue over red.


 
Joker always requies more roles because he usually has more dialogue than everyone. Not just a maniac running around blowing crap up like he is nothing more than a terrorist.



> Erm...we think Heath played psycho w/ humorous overtones well? I don't agree with all of the hyperbole that this was the end-all performance but I do think he did an excellent job. Nor do I agree with the claims that no one can prefer Jack. It's PREFERENCE. Some people prefer Heath's interpretation and some prefer Jack's. Thing is, they're both valid and backed by the comic books.
> 
> Ultimately, it's a battle of Golden Age Joker (Jack Nicholson) vs. Silver Age (Heath Ledge) with Hamill's being an amalgamation of the two.



That's my point, the performance from Ledger wasn't the edd all it was good but fanboys suck...



> Still opinion. Substantiating your claim would help but claiming=/=supporting. I could sit here and argue "Cesar Romero is the better Joker, better dialogue, better style, and wit!" See the problem?



Jack is a better actor than Heath, period.


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## Chee (Jul 20, 2008)

> Jack is a better actor than Heath, period.



Jack doesn't do much, he usually plays the same character over and over again with a few exceptions.

Heath Ledger has a bit more variety. He played a psychotic, gay cowboy, a son in the Revolutionary war, and 15th century heartthrob. He's acting has covered a wide range of characters, and that's why I think Heath is a better actor than Jack. Hey, its my opinion.


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## Oda Oda no Mi (Jul 20, 2008)

Superrazien said:


> Wait am I reading this right. People actually liked Nicklesons Joker? LMFAO!



I liked Jack Nicholson's Joker, but the difference between Nicholson's Joker and Heath Ledger's Joker is like the difference between a rib steak and a filet mignon.


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## Adonis (Jul 20, 2008)

Rule said:
			
		

> Jack is a better actor than Heath, period.



Irrelevant.

Being a better overall actor doesn't extend to every performance. I've seen great actors give lousy performances and lousy actors give the occasional great one. I'm not saying Jack did a lousy job, mind you, simply expressing that actors aren't always in top-form.

My belief is that Jack could have done the role of The Joker in his sleep and he treated it as such. He didn't put forth any strenuous effort because he didn't need to and merely stuck with the mantra "The Shining but more over-the-top and cartoony" and went with it.

Heath, on the other hand, really got into the role and did his research.

Just because I feel Heath did a better Joker than Jack doesn't mean I think Heath is an overall better actor; he simply gave a stronger performance in this one role in my opinion.



> *Everything else Rule said*



I'm bored now.


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## Lestat Uchiha (Jul 20, 2008)

Chee said:


> Jack doesn't do much, he usually plays the same character over and over again with a few exceptions.
> 
> Heath Ledger has a bit more variety. He played a psychotic, gay cowboy, a son in the Revolutionary war, and 15th century heartthrob. He's acting has covered a wide range of characters, and that's why I think Heath is a better actor than Jack. Hey, its my opinion.



My opinion also. I have watched Batman from 89 A LOT of times and still cannot see the greatness behind his performance that Rule sees. I liked it the first time I saw it when I was an 11 year old child, but as time went by and my preferences became more mature, Jack's Jocker became more and more anoying and realized how little effort Jack actually put into the character. You just have to watch Jack's comidic past performences to realize they are not very different from his version of the Jocker and that in the end, it was just Jack Nicholson with make up on. If you love Jack Nicholson then it might be your favorite, but for the rest of people who don't  love Nicholson then there is nothing brilliant there, it was a good performance, but hardly great at least on myt opinion. 

Now comes Heath. I have watched Ledger's movies and found him a very good actor with a lot of variety just like Chee said, but when I found out he was going to be the Jocker I had serious doubts about him.......but it took the first trailer to prove me wrong. I still have not seen the movie , but the trailers alone show how much he inmerse in the role and became nothing like himself. I barely recognized him and his voice was completly different and actually sounded psycothic instead of anoying, it really impressed me and unlike Jack's Joker, t actually motivated me to read and find more stuff about the Jocker and became a fan of such a complex character.  At least in the Jocker character, I think Heath did a much better acting than Nicholson. But hey, it's my opinion.


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## Elle (Jul 20, 2008)

Its a tough call between Jack and Heath.  Jack played the 'traditional' over-the-top cartoony version of the character to the hilt and Heath was given a completely new, never been done before personality of the character.  Its clear he put his all into creating this new 'anarchist' Joker but its hard to compare the two styles.  Jack worked with tradition, as that was what was called for and Heath 'ran with the ball' in a completely new direction.  Feel that both actors played their parts extremely well.  

Went with Heath in the poll, cuz I like(d) him...


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## MartialHorror (Jul 20, 2008)

Adonis said:


> Irrelevant.
> 
> Being a better overall actor doesn't extend to every performance. I've seen great actors give lousy performances and lousy actors give the occasional great one. I'm not saying Jack did a lousy job, mind you, simply expressing that actors aren't always in top-form.
> 
> ...



I disagree. Jack had too much fun for simply a "playing the role in his sleep" role. Morgan Freeman and Michael Caine went for that route in their roles. Micheal Keaton did that in the 1989 movie. Saying "they could play the role in their sleep" basically means an easy typecast. Jack Nicholson was originally typecast in crazy roles, but he got out of it.

I will say Heath ledger impressed me more with TDK. Like everyone, I was initially against the casting but the difference between Jack and Heath as the joker is that

1) Jack's Joker is basically Jack reprising various roles from the past and adding face paint. It's good casting and he obviously stole the show.

2) Heath's Joker is so unlike Heath Ledger in anything we have seen him in. If I wasn't aware it was heath playing the role, I would have no idea it was him. 

So I think Heath accomplished more on the role. Also, Heath was really into the part, while Jack did it mainly for money.

As to who is the better actor overall, I dont think its fair to compare. If you watch Jack Nicholson when he was young, you wouldn't expect him to be the star he is now. It wasn't until "One flew over the cuckoo's nest" that people started taking him seriously. Heath Ledger never really got to get as far as Jack because....he died.

If given the time, I'm sure he would have been a legend as well. 

You know, the more I think about it, Jack Nicholson was very scary in "The Shining". If Tim Burton was more interested in making the Joker scary, Jack may have been just as scary as Heath Ledger was in TDK. Just goes to show the actor isn't always in charge of what they do......


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## chrisp (Jul 20, 2008)

Why do everyone compare Jack Nicholsons roles in The Shining and Batman!? 

Are you retarded? In Batman, The Joker electrified a man and laughed 'I glad you're dead!! I'm glad you're dead!! Hahahaha!!'. 

Jack Nicholsons performance as The Joker was epic. Critics agree. The character is portrayed as demented, a genius and villain that laugh alot. This is exactly how The *Joker* is. Now please end this masturbation over Heath Ledger before I loose my lust to watch the movie, which I've been looking very much forward to.


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## Purgatory (Jul 20, 2008)

Chee said:


> _That_ is a fucking rumor.
> 
> He went through a fucking divorce and he couldn't be with his only daughter for Christmas. He was doing another film at the moment and tried to relax, he couldn't sleep and was tired during filming and that's when he mixed the wrong drugs together.
> 
> Get your head out of your ass and have some respect for the man.



I am respectin' him...for trying to pull off such a dark role.


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## Rule (Jul 20, 2008)

Adonis said:


> Irrelevant.
> 
> Being a better overall actor doesn't extend to every performance. I've seen great actors give lousy performances and lousy actors give the occasional great one. I'm not saying Jack did a lousy job, mind you, simply expressing that actors aren't always in top-form.
> 
> ...



Your wrong. Jack's acting in the shining was different from his Joker. If Jack in his prime wanted to play the Joker now he could have easily did what Heath did AND MORE. You want a twisted/darker Joker Jack could have done that but obviously Jack can only go off of the script that Burton wrote (Burton's Joker was still twisted). Jack is just that damn versatile and his joker then was better. Jack is just a better actor period, hell Johhny DEP would have played a better Joker than Heath.

GET OFF THE MANS NUT's, seriously I think many of you are overrating his performance cause he is RIP (God Bless his soul).



> I'm bored



Then maybe you should come with a better argument, how about BRAINSTORMING before you post,lol.



> Why do everyone compare Jack Nicholsons roles in The Shining and Batman!?
> 
> Are you retarded? In Batman, The Joker electrified a man and laughed 'I glad you're dead!! I'm glad you're dead!! Hahahaha!!'.
> 
> Jack Nicholsons performance as The Joker was epic. Critics agree. Now please end this masturbation over Heath Ledger before I loose my lust to watch the movie, which I've been looking very much forward to.



Yep..Yep..


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## Purgatory (Jul 20, 2008)

Superrazien said:


> Wait am I reading this right. People actually liked Nicklesons Joker? LMFAO!



People actually liked Heath Ledger's joker?


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## chrisp (Jul 20, 2008)

Rule said:


> Your wrong. Jack's acting in the shining was different from his Joker. If Jack in his prime wanted to play the Joker now he could have easily did what Heath did AND MORE.
> Jack is just that damn versatile and his joker then was better. Jack is just a better actor period, hell Johhny DEP would have played a better Joker than Heath.



Finally someone who understands! I haven't seen The Dark Knight, but I agree with your point concerning Batman and Jack Nicholson as The Joker.


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## MartialHorror (Jul 20, 2008)

Rule said:


> Your wrong. Jack's acting in the shining was different from his Joker. If Jack in his prime wanted to play the Joker now he could have easily did what Heath did AND MORE.
> Jack is just that damn versatile and his joker then was better. Jack is just a better actor period, hell Johhny DEP would have played a better Joker than Heath.



lol, but Johnny Depp is probably the best actor of today........

Actually, that would have been a great choice. Maybe he would do a good Riddler.

I do think Jack could have done it today, if he was in his prime. Regardless, people would still compare the role to "The Shining". Ledgers performance, as I said, is completely unlike anything we have ever seen him do.


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## Rule (Jul 20, 2008)

MartialHorror said:


> lol, but Johnny Depp is probably the best actor of today........
> 
> Actually, that would have been a great choice. Maybe he would do a good Riddler.
> 
> I do think Jack could have done it today, if he was in his prime. Regardless, people would still compare the role to "The Shining". Ledgers performance, as I said, is completely unlike anything we have ever seen him do.



That's cause Ledger played in gay movies and low budget parts..I said Heath did a good Joker but saying it was better than Jacks or just the end all and be all of performances and best joker EVER is crazy.

What is wrong with freakin America...


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## MartialHorror (Jul 20, 2008)

Rule said:


> That's cause Ledger played in gay ass movies and low budget parts..I said Heath did a good Joker but saying it was better than Jacks or just the end all and be all of performances and best joker EVER is crazy.
> 
> What is wrong with freakin America...



What makes your opinion any more valid than theres? Even people like Ebert will admit their critiques are just opinions....

You also need to remember that

1) Jack Nicholson began in low budget/smaller roles. 

2) Back then, your acting skills were more important than your looks. It's actually a shame how many talented actors/actresses are wasted on dull roles. You dont see many roles like "One flew over...." anymore. Hence, Ledger doesn't get as many chances to stretch as Nicholson did.


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## Rule (Jul 20, 2008)

MartialHorror said:


> What makes your opinion any more valid than theres? Even people like Ebert will admit their critiques are just opinions....
> 
> You also need to remember that
> 
> ...



Some actors can just do more than others and Jack is just more talented (One of the greatest eva).


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## Lestat Uchiha (Jul 20, 2008)

Rule said:


> Your wrong. Jack's acting in the shining was different from his Joker. If Jack in his prime wanted to play the Joker now he could have easily did what Heath did AND MORE. You want a twisted/darker Joker Jack could have done that but obviously Jack can only go off of the script that Burton wrote (Burton's Joker was still twisted). Jack is just that damn versatile and his joker then was better. Jack is just a better actor period, hell Johhny DEP would have played a better Joker than Heath.
> 
> *GET OFF THE MANS NUT's*, seriously I think many of you are overrating his poerformance cause he is RIP.


It hypocritical that you say that because he loved his performence when you ar eobviously a Jcak Nicholson fanboy who sucks his dick in every coment about him. he being death has nothing to do with how good his performance was. If Jack Nicholson dies, my opinion on his performances would remain the same, if Heath had lived, our opinion on his performence would have been the same. Actually if you had watched all comments about Heath's Jocker right after the first trailer chich was released almost a month before his death, you would have read TONS of comments from people that were very impressed about Heath Ledger transformation and were getting excited about the movie.

If someone is overrating performances that would definitly be you. Jack's Jocker was not so diferent from any other comidic version of Jack or even not so different from jack itself, there was nothing special on my eyes about that performance. Heath did a hell of a good acting, there's no doubt about that, almost every critic of the Dark Knight is praising his performance, even those who say hated the movie said Heath did a really good job.  He was a hell of a good actor for pulling this iff, there's no question about that. You can't seriouly compare jack Nicholson's carrier to Heath's because he simply died when he was about to have a serious jump to his carrier thanks to his Jocker and start getting better roles, he died when he was just getting recognition.


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## MartialHorror (Jul 20, 2008)

Rule said:


> Some actors can just do more than others and Jack is just more talented (One of the greatest eva).



Okay, then point out movies that showcase Jack Nicholson's acting talent. 

Oh, and movies like "The Departed" don't count because Jack Nicholson is just playing a mean Jack Nicholson. He owns, but that doesn't show much range(oddly, no one in that movie showed much range except Mark Wahlberg....the least talented of them all. What the hell?)

I'm not disagreeing with you, necessarily, but I want more than just a fanboy responce.


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## Chee (Jul 20, 2008)

Wow, you guys are pathetic.


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## Rule (Jul 20, 2008)

Lestat Uchiha said:


> It hypocritical that you say that because he loved his performence when you ar eobviously a Jcak Nicholson fanboy who sucks his dick in every coment about him. he being death has nothing to do with how good his performance was. If Jack Nicholson dies, my opinion on his performances would remain the same, if Heath had lived, our opinion on his performence would have been the same. Actually if you had watched all comments about Heath's Jocker right after the first trailer chich was released almost a month before his death, you would have read TONS of comments from people that were very impressed about Heath Ledger transformation and were getting excited about the movie.
> 
> If someone is overrating performances that would definitly be you. Jack's Jocker was not so diferent from any other comidic version of Jack or even not so different from jack itself, there was nothing special on my eyes about that performance. Heath did a hell of a good acting, there's no doubt about that, almost every critic of the Dark Knight is praising his performance, even those who say hated the movie said Heath did a really good job.  He was a hell of a good actor for pulling this iff, there's no question about that. You can't seriouly compare jack Nicholson's carrier to Heath's because he simply died when he was about to have a serious jump to his carrier thanks to his Jocker, he died when he was just getting recognition.



Did I say anything about Heath's performance sucking? NO, I said he did a good job. How da hell I am I on Jack's nuts? Just cause I said he played a better Joker and is a better actor? What? I guess I am a Heath ledger fanboy too since I gave him compliments. Look before you leap son, that's a lesson for you not just here, but in life.


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## Rule (Jul 20, 2008)

MartialHorror said:


> Okay, then point out movies that showcase Jack Nicholson's acting talent.
> 
> Oh, and movies like "The Departed" don't count because Jack Nicholson is just playing a mean Jack Nicholson. He owns, but that doesn't show much range(oddly, no one in that movie showed much range except Mark Wahlberg....the least talented of them all. What the hell?)
> 
> I'm not disagreeing with you, necessarily, but I want more than just a fanboy responce.



Batman, Cuckoo's nest, Shining, A Few Good men, and the Departed was great acting with all the dialogue Jack had I think. Yeah but Leonardo dicaprio I think was the weakset of them all, lol.


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## Lestat Uchiha (Jul 20, 2008)

Rule said:


> Did I say anything about Heath's performance sucking?NO.


You are minimazing his performance which is just as bad. It is kind of anoying to hear that Heath's Jocker could be easilly emulated by Jack or Johny Dep or saying those two could have given a much better performance as if it would be a fact thus minimizing his acting skills.

.





> . How da hell I am I on Jack's nuts? Just cause I said he played a better Joker and is a better actor? .


No, but because you say the first thing as if it is a fact when the vast  majority of the people who have voted says otherwise. And how in hell can you compare two actors like that. Heath died when he was just getting recognition, Jack  has acted for decades. Jack is great when playing an specific type of role, but Heath has proven that he could have been just as great in a wide range of roles and character.


.





> What? I guess I am a Heath ledger fanboy too since I gave him compliments. Look before you leap son, that's a lesson for you not just here, but in life.


According to what your comments tell me about you, you have nothing to teach me.


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## MartialHorror (Jul 20, 2008)

Rule said:


> Batman, Cuckoo's nest, Shining, A Few Good men, and the Departed was great acting with all the dialogue Jack had I think. Yeah but Leonardo dicaprio I think was the weakset of them all, lol.



Great movies and Jack does great in them, but the only one that he really didn't play himself was Cuckoo's. The Shining was the same as Cuckoo's except with a much scarier twist. Batman was simply a more comical/twisted version of Cuckoo's with facepaint.

So really you get two diverse different styles. Of course, I've only seen two from Ledger as well.


----------



## Rule (Jul 20, 2008)

Lestat Uchiha said:


> You are minimazing his performance which is just as bad.It is kind of anoying to hear that Heath's Jocker could be easilly emulated by Jack or Johny Dep or saying those two could have given a much better performance thus minimizing his acting skills.



Nah that ain't minimizing that's a compliment because I feel TWO GREAT (Two of the best ever) actors can only surpass it. dID i SAY FREAKIN TOMMEY LEE JONES OR OWEN WILSON COULD DO IT? That's minimizing.



> No, but because you say the first thing as if it is a fact when the vast  majority of the people who have voted says otherwise. And how in hell can you compare two actors like that. Heath died when he was just getting recognition, Jack  has acted for decades. Jack is great, but Heath has proven that he could have been just as great by the variaty of good roles he has played.



Jack to me played a better joker..Do you people take prescriptions? This entire discusiion has ALWAYS been opinion, wow I need to state everything is my opinion now? Thanks, you truly are one of America's best..THANKS FOR LETTING ME KNOW I HAVE FREE WILL.



> According to what your comments tell me about you, you have nothing to teach me.



common sense.....


----------



## Adonis (Jul 20, 2008)

Rule said:


> Your wrong. Jack's acting in the shining was different from his Joker. If Jack in his prime wanted to play the Joker now he could have easily did what Heath did AND MORE.



Problem is, he didn't do the performance in his prime. You're basing your argument on conjecture which is fallacious. I'm basing it on what he did in the movie. And the "Jack could have done better" argument, ignoring that it's conjecture, is the equivalent of saying Stalin murdered more people than Hitler. Just like a tragedy isn't negated because a worse one exists, just because another actor possibly could have done better doesn't negate that Heath gave a good performance.



> You want a twisted/darker Joker Jack could have done that but obviously Jack can only go off of the script that Burton wrote (Burton's Joker was still twisted). Jack is just that damn versatile and his joker then was better. Jack is just a better actor period, hell Johhny DEP would have played a better Joker than Heath.



Again, I'm basing it on the performances given not the ones that COULD have been given. You seem to be basing your entire preference on your obsession with the fact you feel "OMG, IT COULD HAVE BEEN BETTER!"




> "GET OFF THE MANS NUT's, seriously I think many of you are overrating his performance cause he is RIP (God Bless his soul).



Pot calling the kettle black. I'm not the one heralding my preference as the end-all performance and treating all other preferences as invalid. If anyone here is slurping off an actor here, it's you.

Again, your entire argument is built around your assumptions of OUR motive for liking Heath's Joker. No way we found it better based on what we considered its merit. Oh no. Clearly, I need to extol an actor I never honestly much at all simply because he died. 

The "you only like him because he's dead" is a strawman in the same sense as the "you only like Jack due to nostalgia" argument.




> Then maybe you should come with a better argument, how about BRAINSTORMING before you post,lol.



Proper grammar and punctuation makes condescension much more convincing.

But no, I simply find you tedious at this point.



			
				Zarigani said:
			
		

> Why do everyone compare Jack Nicholsons roles in The Shining and Batman!?



Because many think they are similar?



> Are you retarded? In Batman, The Joker electrified a man and laughed 'I glad you're dead!! I'm glad you're dead!! Hahahaha!!'.



People are talking generally. That's the equivalent of saying, "In One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, Jack wore a hat and was in an asylum while in the Shining, he wore his hair down and was in a cabin. Completely different." [Not saying they're not different, btw, just not for that reason]

In other words, people are saying he played psychotic similarly in both movies not that every plot point and detail lined up exactly.



> Jack Nicholsons performance as The Joker was epic. Critics agree.



I'd have to ask which critics. Many of the reviews I read had the critic liking Heath's over Jack's. Please, don't make empty assertions.


----------



## Lestat Uchiha (Jul 20, 2008)

Rule said:


> Nah that ain't minimizing that's a compliment because I feel TWO GREAT (Two of the best ever) actors can only surpass it. dID i SAY FREAKIN TOMMEY LEE JONES OR OWEN WILSON COULD DO IT? That's minimalizing.


You got a point there, that truly would be an insult. However when you say we only like Heath more because he is death, then you are minimizing his performance.



> Jack to me played a better joker..Do you people take prescriptions? This entire discusiion has ALWAYS been opinion, wow I need to state everything is my opinion now? Thanks, you truly are one of America's best..THANKS FOR LETTING ME KNOW I HAVE FREE WILL.


I have no problem with an opinion supported by facts and opinions which do sound as opinions. What you are doing many times is countering other people's opinions with what you think are facts based on nothing. Why is that in your eyes Jack played the better Jocker? Why would an unbiase person think that Jack Nicholson did a better Joker than Heath?



> common sense.....


I have plenty.


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## Adonis (Jul 20, 2008)

All-in-all, comparing Jack and Heath is like comparing apples and oranges. They play the same character (fruit in this analogy) but they play different interpretations (types of fruit) thus the goals were different. You may prefer one interpretation but it doesn't automatically reduce the other and make it worse.


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## chrisp (Jul 20, 2008)

^ I totally agree with you, and I'm not saying which actor play the role as The Joker best. I haven't seen The Dark Knight but I expect great things from Heath Ledger. But it seems alot of you reduce Jack Nicholson performance and praise Ledgers. It's like all you care about is Ledger. 

I can't find any comments on his role as The Joker in Batman, but it's commonly known that he stole the show and that Movie won an Oscar.


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## Toad Hermit (Jul 21, 2008)

I voted for Jack Nicholson since he is not getting much love 
Jack Nicholson is just naturally perverted and did an awesome job.


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## Piekage (Jul 21, 2008)

I choose Ledger, mainly because of how TDK was, by comparison to 89' Batman. I prefer darker films (in both enviroment and story) and TDK fit that bill nicely, where as BM 89' was more... campy, a little hard to take seriously. Jack's performance was quite memorable, especially his death in the first movie. But he didn't seem as much as a threat as Ledger Joker did.


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## Munak (Jul 21, 2008)

Heath was scary, Jack Nicholson's was freaky, and the Batman Beyond joker was perfectly demented.

If I could say it, they all showed me a different side of the Joker, which I enjoyed.


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## Chee (Jul 21, 2008)

> ...and the Batman Beyond joker was perfectly demented.



That was so badass when he threaten to kill one of his goons with the gun, pretended like it was a joke with that "bang" thing, and then he killed him when he least expected it. Perfect.


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## 2Shea (Jul 21, 2008)

Rukia said:


> 1.  Heath Ledger
> 2.  Mark Hammil
> 3.  Jack Nicholson
> 4.  Romero



Qft. That 100% sums it up lol.


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## Disturbia (Jul 21, 2008)

Heath Ledger of course. He was amazing as the Joker. I miss him so much...


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## Chee (Jul 21, 2008)

> Cesar Romero    0 0%



No love for Cesar.


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## Bushin (Jul 21, 2008)

No contest at all! Heath = epic win! End of story.


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## Major (Jul 21, 2008)

Chee said:


> No love for Cesar.


 Seems not 

As for me.  Haven't seen the new Batman yet, since it's not out in South Africa yet.  But I must say Heath Ledge/Joker has been stalking me in my dreams, scaring the shit out of me, so that's got to count for something.

Heath get's my vote


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## Comic Book Guy (Jul 21, 2008)

Hamill -- traditional Joker

Ledger -- modern Joker

Cesar -- campy Joker

Nicholson -- Jack Nicholson


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## Negative-Ion (Jul 21, 2008)

Jack was the first to play a really mean joker, he set the tone for the rest of the joker actors to be better than him, meaning more mean and badass. jack was a different era and this is different now. But heath was awsome too, i stayed in the theater for a good 10min after the movie, just reading the credits thinking, this guy was so badass, that he lost his life for this role.


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## EvanNJames (Jul 21, 2008)

Oh, why'd ya have to put Mark Hammil up there?!!!

Now I don't know whether to choose him or Ledger. God damn you!!  *Shakes an angry fist*


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## Supa Swag (Jul 21, 2008)

Ledger.

Although I feel like voting for Nicholson because of the horrible "support" he's getting.


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## SeruraRenge (Jul 22, 2008)

honestly, it was hard, but in the end I chose Hamill's Joker.

You can't really compare him and Heath's, since they portray characters that are radically different.  They both gave unforgettable performances, but in the end, Hamill won due to one factor - the laugh.  Mark Hamill gave us one of the most infamous and completely awesome laughs in superhero history.

[YOUTUBE]http://youtube.com/watch?v=BCTFih-VelI[/YOUTUBE]


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## Taleran (Jul 22, 2008)

This guy in his review said it much better than I ever could



> The best thing that Heath’s performance has done is to forever erase the painful memory of Jack Nicholson’s Joker. I remember back in 1989, the world went bonkers over Jack’s performance. And I was pissed. As written in Sam Hamm’s script, the character was so much better than what Nicholson transformed it into through the aid of Warren Skaaren. Here, Heath is invisible in the role, his eyes containing madness, genius, sympathy, sadism and childlike glee. The stories he tells are brilliant little mind fucks. His monologues and mannerisms seem so spontaneous, so created with a gleeful inspiration from the great deceiver himself. It is a role and a performance of a lifetime.


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## Superrazien (Jul 22, 2008)

Heath was a better Joker than Jack because when you see Jack as the Joker, you see just that Jack Nickleson as a Joker.

When you see Heath as the Joker, you see the Joker who happens to be played by Heath.


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## ZenGamr (Jul 22, 2008)

Ledger's Joker performance trumps all.


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## redhorsemen (Jul 23, 2008)

Ledger is the joker..........he's the best of the best

but mark is the cartoon joker(stell think ledger's the best...)


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## Ryuji Yamazaki (Jul 23, 2008)

Heath Ledger was far and away the greatest Joker ever. Even Mark Hamill was a distant second. Pailed in comparison. 

The others aren't even worth mentioning next to those two.


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## ez (Jul 23, 2008)

Heath Ledger's performance was sensational. Easily one of the best performances i've ever seen, and one of my favorites too. His rendition of the Joker was perfection.

He easily gets my vote.


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## Viciousness (Jul 24, 2008)

Mark Hamil is as perfect as you can be for the type of joker in the cartoons. But Heath Ledger embodied the real life joker perfectly. His is the best.


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## ~SAGE~ (Jul 24, 2008)

I picked Heath Ledger but both him and Jack Nickolson did a great job. I really love Heaths pencil joke lol. Gotta try it one day myself.


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## FitzChivalry (Jul 24, 2008)

I'm sorry, but Heath Ledger gave one of the greatest performances I've ever seen in a motion picture, period. So he takes this in a landslide. The one superlative that comes to mind: perfect. That's what he was. With his sweat stained makeup, and nasally voice, I would've never guessed that the man playing the Joker was Heath Ledger. He was unrecognizable.

I take the cartoon Joker second. I have fond memories of the cartoon Joker. Nicholson third, Romero, who I've never seen, last.


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## ~SAGE~ (Jul 24, 2008)

Oh Yeah. I forgot about the Cartoon Joker. Yeah I agree with you I take him second.

Yeah the cartoon Joker used to always scare the hell outta me. Recently I've watched some Batman: original series episodes and he's still scarey


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## Purgatory (Jul 24, 2008)

Hamil stomps Heath. I bet Hamil would've made for one Hell of a Joker in real life. As for Jack, well..he stomps Heath too. I mean, come on. Don't label me nostalgic, but I just can't see how Heath can even hold a candle to Nicholson.


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## Adonis (Jul 24, 2008)

Painkiller said:


> Hamil stomps Heath. I bet Hamil would've made for one Hell of a Joker in real life. As for Jack, well..he stomps Heath too. I mean, come on. Don't label me nostalgic, but I just can't see how Heath can even hold a candle to Nicholson.



Jesus, fucking get over it. 

Also, I won't label you nostalgic but you've shown to be a bigot so...


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## ~Avant~ (Jul 24, 2008)

When you saw Nicholson it was painfully apparant that it was still Jack under all the make up.

I couldn't even phathom that DK's Joker was Heath.


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## Silvers Rayleigh (Jul 24, 2008)

Nicholson is a legend and he played the Joker marvelously, but Ledger's was the best and most demented one ever and i hope he's awarded an Oscar posthumously. 

*R.I.P Heath Ledger*
* "The True Joker"*


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## ~SAGE~ (Jul 24, 2008)

Yeah both of them were so good but Heaths was amazing. He was funny and scary at the same time. Although I will admit that Jack Nicholsons was very haunting. But I was a kid.


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## Bolt Crank (Jul 24, 2008)

Hamill is the overall best screen Joker. An ideal Joker should be both terrifying *and* compelingly amusing. The dark humor has to be an important part of the character. 

Ledger's Joker was a great, great thinker and planner, and fearsome as hell, but other than the hospital scene, he never gave me the funny psycho vibes I want from the Joker.


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## Rule (Jul 24, 2008)

*Let's skip the bull yall, who's the best joker? Heath, Mark and Jack,
Ain't no best, they all flossed out!*


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## illusion (Jul 24, 2008)

Jack Nicholson's joker = Clown

Heath's joker = Psycho and demented with a hint of humor, what the joker should be.


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## Penance (Jul 24, 2008)

sharinganSaSuKe99 said:


> I picked Heath Ledger but both him and Jack Nickolson did a great job. I really love Heaths pencil joke lol. Gotta try it one day myself.



Who wouldn't want to try that?


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## SeruraRenge (Jul 24, 2008)

Bolt Crank said:


> Hamill is the overall best screen Joker. An ideal Joker should be both terrifying *and* compelingly amusing. The dark humor has to be an important part of the character.
> 
> Ledger's Joker was a great, great thinker and planner, and fearsome as hell, but other than the hospital scene, he never gave me the funny psycho vibes I want from the Joker.



couldn't put it better myself.


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## Podman (Jul 24, 2008)

Heath's Joker was more entertaining, but there are really so many was you could portray the Joker its just that Heath chose the most entertaining way. 

           Nicholson took less of the unstoppable complete crackjob Joker route that heath took and more of the Evil Class Clown role much like Hamill did in the Animated Series.

          (I guess there should be a comma here)But I think there were people who tried for the role of Joker in this film and didn't get it that would have made a better Joker. Like Steve Correl Tried for the Joker Slot and I thought he would have made a highly interesting Joker.

         That all being said I feel there is one thing I must say 
*Spoiler*: __ 



*Throw Down Mighty*


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## Muse (Jul 24, 2008)

Heath Ledger of course.


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## Proxy (Jul 24, 2008)

It is going to be one sided, but it's only because Heath's portrayal was the best of the four. He did take the role that Mark Hamill pretty much crafted, with the animated series, and made it more mature.


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## NingyoHime (Jul 26, 2008)

I'd have to say Heath Ledger, I had no idea he could laugh like that.Oo...and His portral of the JOker was absolutly Outstanding.:] I give him a thumbs up^^


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## Violent-nin (Jul 26, 2008)

Heath Ledgers Joker by far. 

In all respect to Jack, his performance as The Joker was just Jack being Jack in make-up, nothing special.


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## gabzilla (Jul 27, 2008)

Nurse!Joker wins.


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## Hal07 (Jul 27, 2008)

Heath Ledger is and will always be the best Joker.

At the beginning of the movie you're thinking, _yea, that's the joker. crazy._ At the end of the movie you're thinking, _Heath Ledger's crazy._ He captures the Joker so well. He had the Joker insane and funny. Heath almost makes you pity the Joker.
 The saddest part is, not matter how good he did, there won't be an encore. I wonder, if he hadn't been playing such a dark role, or hadn't been doing the movie at all, would he have comitted suicide? I know, people say there's not proof he comitted suicide, but even if he did the press won't say. He overdosed on a lot of medication which 'hints' to suicide. One thing I don't get, if he committed suicide why be naked in the middle of your floor? Maybe it was accidental. He was an insomniac afterall, maybe he just accidently took too many sleeping pills. I guess we just won't know. Either way, it's sad.


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## Ziko (Jul 27, 2008)

Heath Ledger, best acting I've seen in my life.


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## batanga (Jul 27, 2008)

Everything he did in the movie was just perfect.

Heath for sure.


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## Sasuke (Jul 27, 2008)

Nicholson's was good.

Ledger's was sensational.


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## Chee (Jul 27, 2008)

Hal07 said:


> Heath Ledger is and will always be the best Joker.
> 
> At the beginning of the movie you're thinking, _yea, that's the joker. crazy._ At the end of the movie you're thinking, _Heath Ledger's crazy._ He captures the Joker so well. He had the Joker insane and funny. Heath almost makes you pity the Joker.
> The saddest part is, not matter how good he did, there won't be an encore. I wonder, if he hadn't been playing such a dark role, or hadn't been doing the movie at all, would he have comitted suicide? I know, people say there's not proof he comitted suicide, but even if he did the press won't say. He overdosed on a lot of medication which 'hints' to suicide. One thing I don't get, if he committed suicide why be naked in the middle of your floor? Maybe it was accidental. He was an insomniac afterall, maybe he just accidently took too many sleeping pills. I guess we just won't know. Either way, it's sad.



He has a daughter that he loved very, very much. He wouldn't have commited suicide.
And I believe it wasn't an overdose. He took the wrong pills together and it was a lethal combination.

I don't think it was the role at all. It was just insomnia, depression (most likely from the separation from his wife IMO) and the harsh hours of working on that new movie he was doing.

I came out of the theatre a little sad, Heath did a wonderful job and he passed away.


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## Denji (Jul 27, 2008)

All bias aside (I actually think Nicholson is one of the greatest actors ever), Heath floored me in _The Dark Knight_. Jack was just Jack (which is still pretty good). Heath was the Joker.


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## beads (Jul 27, 2008)

It's Heath Ledger in a blowout.


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## Chee (Jul 27, 2008)

Whoo! Cesar got some lovin'!


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## Vault (Jul 27, 2008)

heath joker easy


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## Byakuya (Jul 27, 2008)

Not really a contest here, Heath did an immensely good job and deserves every bit of attention he gets.


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jul 27, 2008)

martryn said:


> Heath really makes me uncomfortable as the Joker, which I think is a much better job that Nicholson.  Not that Nicholson was a bad joker, just that I think Ledger's interpretation of the role was more spot on



Couldnt agree more on this, its exactly the same way i felt.


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## CrazyMoronX (Jul 28, 2008)

Heath's Joker was more badass, I'll give you that. But Jack's Joker will always have a special place for me. 

Hard to say, but I think I'll go with Heath's, although I still maintain his voice was gay at times.


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## Katsura (Jul 28, 2008)

Zarigani said:


> I haven't seen 'The Dark Knight', but martryn, The Joker can't be played by a single person, he's is one of the most complex characters ever created.
> 
> A true Batman-fan will never forget Jack Nicholsons role as The Joker when talking about this character.



Go see the film first. Heath's performance is spot on.
Nicholson did a good job being a comical character, but Heath played a downright evil, corrupt, insane, psychotic and terrifying villain with a comical side to it.


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## Mider T (Dec 30, 2009)

Also wanted to see how people would change the poll when TDK isn't fresh anymore.


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## Chee (Dec 30, 2009)

Mider, dammit! 

Old thread is old.


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## Frieza (Dec 30, 2009)

Mark freaking Hamil.. TDK was shit.. and I am not afraid to admit it.


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## Mider T (Dec 30, 2009)

I had planned on bumping it when Heath's death wasn't so fresh anymore


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## Girl I don't care (Dec 31, 2009)

ooouh so the Ledger hype is done and dusted it seems?


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## Deleted member 161031 (Dec 31, 2009)

Heath Ledger was okay, but the Jack Nicholson had something. Maybe it was that I watched the film when I was just a kid, and his performance seemed magic. I don't know the other two.


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## Chidori Mistress (Dec 31, 2009)

aww look how giddy Chee is at the beginning of this thread. 

Hamill and Ledger for me.


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## Taleran (Dec 31, 2009)

I'd like to adjust my vote



Jeff Bennett knocks this character out of the park


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## Chee (Dec 31, 2009)

Oh my god...is that a tumor on his chin?



> aww look how giddy Chee is at the beginning of this thread.



For serious? I forgot what I posted. *checks*


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## Federer (Dec 31, 2009)

Hamill >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ledger and Nicholson combined. 

It's very hard to bring the Joker of the comics on screen.

And Batman Begins > TDK, which is very very overrated.


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## Vault (Dec 31, 2009)

Mark Hamil ofcourse


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## Mikaveli (Jan 1, 2010)

Mark Hamil is the Joker.


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## Bart (Jan 1, 2010)

Mark was spectacular, Heath was amazing and Jack was terrifying.


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## Scholzee (Jan 1, 2010)

Heath Ledger for me


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## Pompous (Jan 1, 2010)

Nicholson was just being himself so it didn't feel like much of a performance. Ledger was an interesting take but Hamill, (much like alot of BTAS) feels like the quintessential version of the character.


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## Mojim (Jan 2, 2010)

Heath Ledger of course! I smiled all the way through out the movie watching him. Jack was good too, its just like some of the people said here, Jack was just being himself.


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## Brian (Jan 2, 2010)

Heath Ledger owned that movie, he's the best Joker imo



Taleran said:


> I'd like to adjust my vote
> 
> 
> 
> Jeff Bennett knocks this character out of the park



What the hell is on his chin?


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## Dattebayo-chan (Jan 2, 2010)

I'll vote for Heath Ledger. He really made the crazy side of the Joker come alive in a way no one else has. He totally creeped me out.


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## Al-Yasa (Jan 2, 2010)

mark hamill


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## Butō Rengoob (Jan 3, 2010)

Ya know this is tough, Mark Hamill owns the oice acting portrayal but i put more weight into actualt acting role and it's still a tough tossup between Heath and Jack's. Heath's was a far more more serious role and i think offers more reality to the character yet Jack's was so very Cynical and had the best Wisecracks.


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