# Which Admirals can beat Big Mom?



## YonkoDrippy (Mar 14, 2021)

Which of the Admirals can beat a full power Big Mom?

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## trance (Mar 14, 2021)

my mum > ur mum > admirals > meme

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## ClannadFan (Mar 15, 2021)

Meme and Fish probably have the highest raw stats in the series. But they seem to be lacking in advanced haki. I think it's safe to assume that the C3 atleast have advanced forms of haki. If it's a powerlifting meet give me Big Meme, if it's a fight I'm taking any of the C3 7 days a week and twice on Sunday.

Reactions: Optimistic 1 | Dislike 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Mar 15, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> Which of the Admirals can beat a full power Big Mom?


Any Admiral can win or lose against Big Mom.

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## Djomla (Mar 15, 2021)

Kizaru. Akainu. Aokiji.

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## deltaniner (Mar 15, 2021)

Akainu and Aokiji.

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## VileNotice (Mar 15, 2021)

Only Akainu. He's the strongest and has a good matchup against Prometheus, one of her main weapons.

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## xenos5 (Mar 15, 2021)

Kinda like Kaido didn’t use hybrid until now I still kinda feel she’s got some Trump card she hasn’t used yet. Maybe fusing Zeus and Prometheus into one giant ball of flame lightning? Once she does show that (or maybe some other ultimate technique) I could see her being definitively over Aokiji given the combined heat that would be given off by that Fused Homie.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Shunsuiju (Mar 15, 2021)

Any Admiral can beat Big Mom.

Akainu and Aokiji are the most likely but not ruling out the possiblity of the others doing it too. I don’t think all of the Admirals have to be as close as Akainu and Aokiji were.

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## Oddjutsu (Mar 15, 2021)

Akainu is probably the only one who can't do it

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## Corax (Mar 15, 2021)

Any admiral can beat BM. Oda has done a wonderful job at trolling,badly portraying and ridiculing her. She was humiliated by Brook,Nami,Franky and Robin, I don't need to say any more here.

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## Jo Ndule (Mar 15, 2021)

Yeah they'll beat someone kaido, wb, Roger, shiki couldn't beat

Reactions: Useful 3 | Disagree 1


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## Duhul10 (Mar 15, 2021)

None of them. The BM pirates would've been history if the contrary was true. 2 admirals would have completely annihilated her entire empire.

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## blueframe01 (Mar 15, 2021)

None. Else the marines wouldn't be shitting their pants every time  yonko makes a move.

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## Fel1x (Mar 15, 2021)

admirals against her=new homies in her collection
none of them

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## Mihawk (Mar 15, 2021)

The C3

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## Lord Melkor (Mar 15, 2021)

Depends if the fight is close to the sea.

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## Strobacaxi (Mar 15, 2021)

Possibly Akainu, but still doubt it.

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## YonkoDrippy (Mar 15, 2021)

if You voted “none of them” you’re correct. Don’t be like these Admiral wankers. The strongest Admiral got ragdolled by a sick old man, who couldn’t even go all out because his crew would get caught in the crossfire. imagine what one of the most durable Yonko’s would do to him

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## Delta Shell (Mar 15, 2021)

Maybe Akainu. BM is supposed to be stronger but Oda be on his bullshit with her. No admiral ever gets the level of disrespect the meme has gotten over the years. 

Being rolled away by Robin was some fuckery.

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## Mihawk (Mar 15, 2021)

Delta Shell said:


> Maybe Akainu. BM is supposed to be stronger but Oda be on his bullshit with her. No admiral ever gets the level of disrespect the meme has gotten over the years.
> 
> Being rolled away by Robin was some fuckery.



And this is exactly why I think she couldn’t beat all of them lol.

She can beat the new admirals Fuji & Green Bull, probably. Kizaru possibly(I have no proof that Kiz>=Aokiji but I think he is). Aokiji and Akainu can take her imo. They’ll never get sent flying by Jinbe or Robin, or be shitting themselves against R5 from time to time.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Eustathios (Mar 15, 2021)

Could go either way with any of them. Leaning ever so slightly on the Admirals' side because of showings and Akainu's plot relevance. The other Admirals scale to him.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Mar 15, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> None of them. The BM pirates would've been history if the contrary was true. 2 admirals would have completely annihilated her entire empire.


That’s not how this works. The Marines are the military arm of the WG. 2 Admirals would absolutely beat her, but they need to be kept around to protect he World Nobles and Marineford.


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## Draco Bolton (Mar 15, 2021)

BM is presented as the equal of Kaido, she is a pirate who has been around since forever (even when Roger was around). Oda likes to humiliate her, clown her, he loves that but she has never been defeated and she keeps coming back. And when she is really serious, she is extremely dangerous. In some ways (the way she is handled) she reminds me sometimes of Luffy (although yes, obviously MC had many more badass moments).

So without PIS, I don't see any admiral being able to beat her. It's like fighting a Kaido bis in a way. And as she could fight Kaido (on equal footing) for 3 days. She will be able to fight Admirals for several days without having food problems. No PIS here.

Btw, it's only theory, but if the Admirals by using awakening allow her to create new homies (she can create homies from the nature. Awakening is new nature created by Admirals. Just like in PH).... that's will be even worst for them.

Insane durability, physical power, homies hax/versatility (can fly), haki, hype... And she does have experience, as do the Admirals. I see her winning high-extrem diff.

Reactions: Like 6 | Disagree 1


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## Duhul10 (Mar 15, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> That’s not how this works. The Marines are the military arm of the WG. 2 Admirals would absolutely beat her, but they need to be kept around to protect he World Nobles and Marineford.


Why wouldn't they still be around if each one is above BM? One easily handles the crew, one handles BM. They finish and go back to their desk jobs.


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## TheWiggian (Mar 15, 2021)

Any Admiral.

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## Turrin (Mar 15, 2021)

I honestly feel like they all could depending on the amount of homies she has; her power is highly variable

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Eustathios (Mar 15, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Why wouldn't they still be around if each one is above BM? One easily handles the crew, one handles BM. They finish and go back to their desk jobs.


They have to guard Marineford and also maintain the balance. However a huge part of it has to do with the home field advantage. It's considered suicide to venture into Yonko territory. The Marines sent tens of ships to scout for Whitebeard or to stop him and Shanks meeting but they were all annihilated. If a large Marine force is to arrive, any Yonko would know in advance and the Admirals would be forced to play by the Yonko's rules. Just look at the insane preparation and advantage MF home turf provided against Whitebeard:

Walls to specifically counter the enemy's powers

Trapping the entire pirate alliance in a pincer attack

An army of Pacifistas prepared to strike

Underground tunnels for reinforcements

If not for Oars falling on top of a the walls by luck and WB hiding a ship underwater, the plan would have worked flawlessly. From a powerscaling perspective one can easily conclude 2 Admirals>BM Pirates, however from what has been shown and portrayed from a storyline point of view is that Yonko territories are off limits waters for the Marines.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 15, 2021)

Any admiral can beat kaido(and other yonkos) vice versa

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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 15, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Why wouldn't they still be around if each one is above BM? One easily handles the crew, one handles BM. They finish and go back to their desk jobs.


Balance must be protected- Gorosei

Reactions: Like 3


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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 15, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> if You voted “none of them” you’re correct. Don’t be like these Admiral wankers. The strongest Admiral got ragdolled by a sick old man, who couldn’t even go all out


Really? This man?
OH that holding back excuse from yankers, I got you

His crew knows how he fights
Keep making up false headcannon, Admirals=Yonkos

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## Duhul10 (Mar 15, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Balance must be protected- Gorosei


That's why the WG has the Marines, the CP and the Shicibukai at their disposal. To balance 4 yonko and their crew.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Dunno (Mar 15, 2021)

All of the ones we've seen are favoured against her, except for Sengoku, who in his old age is likely weaker. We don't know what Ryokugyu can do yet, so he might or might not be favoured against her.

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## Duhul10 (Mar 15, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> They have to guard Marineford and also maintain the balance. However a huge part of it has to do with the home field advantage. It's considered suicide to venture into Yonko territory. The Marines sent tens of ships to scout for Whitebeard or to stop him and Shanks meeting but they were all annihilated. If a large Marine force is to arrive, any Yonko would know in advance and the Admirals would be forced to play by the Yonko's rules. Just look at the insane preparation and advantage MF home turf provided against Whitebeard:
> 
> Walls to specifically counter the enemy's powers
> 
> ...


Lots of talk, little substance. You do know that your explanation is basically idiotic, with all due respect. Akainu would never only go for a "balance". He is for absolute justice and he hates pirates. 
Guard Marineford from who? Nobody would make a move that fast, especially without a reason.
You people should realize how disappointing the WG actually is ( especially the marines ) for even letting Yonko exist.

You all talk about balance, but you need to understand that Yonko are not to be taken as a team. If all 4 were together, the world would end. 2 of them coming together means shit's going down in the marine camp, let alone 4.

No admiral is above a yonko, else there would be no yonko, as none of them would defend the other.


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## Strobacaxi (Mar 15, 2021)

Dunno said:


> All of the ones we've seen are favoured against her, except for Sengoku, who in his old age is likely weaker. We don't know what Ryokugyu can do yet, so he might or might not be favoured against her.


BM stopped and got past Marco a million times quicker and more easily than any of the C3
BM handled G4 Luffy going all out better than (A holding back) Fuji handled G3 non serious Luffy

When Luffy had a choice between facing Fuji or running away he said "I can't keep running from people on your level".
When Luffy had a choice between facing BM or running away he said "Let's get the fuck out of here"

Whenever the plot allows it BM is portrayed better than any admiral

Reactions: Like 5 | Agree 4


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## YonkoDrippy (Mar 15, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> BM stopped and got past Marco a million times quicker and more easily than any of the C3
> BM handled G4 Luffy going all out better than (A holding back) Fuji handled G3 non serious Luffy
> 
> When Luffy had a choice between facing Fuji or running away he said "I can't keep running from people on your level".
> ...


he cant even reply after that. you debunked his ass

Reactions: Like 4 | Optimistic 2


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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 15, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> That's why the WG has the Marines, the CP and the Shicibukai at their disposal. To balance 4 yonko and their crew.


Nice, Marines~SSG=Yonkos with their  4 crews
but pre-ts it was Marines + warlords=4 yonkos with their crew

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## Beast (Mar 15, 2021)

I see only Aokiji losing to her because of his DF.

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## Duhul10 (Mar 15, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Nice, Marines~SSG=Yonkos with their  4 crews
> but pre-ts it was Marines + warlords=4 yonkos with their crew


So you mean to say that Deadbeard is so much stronger than BB so that another big power was needed to even out the difference?   Also nice how you forgot to mention the WG has a new toy.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Eustathios (Mar 15, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Lots of talk, little substance. You do know that your explanation is basically idiotic, with all due respect. Akainu would never only go for a "balance". He is for absolute justice and he hates pirates.
> Guard Marineford from who? Nobody would make a move that fast, especially without a reason.
> You people should realize how disappointing the WG actually is ( especially the marines ) for even letting Yonko exist.


Except Akainu is not an idiot. Wishing something and achieving it are two different things. The fact that they exist proves the Marines can't actually wipe them out. I never claimed the opposite. 


Duhul10 said:


> You all talk about balance, but you need to understand that Yonko are not to be taken as a team. If all 4 were together, the world would end. 2 of them coming together means shit's going down in the marine camp, let alone 4.


I only mentioned balance briefly. My main point is that the Marines cannot venture into Yonko territory or eliminate them. That was made clear from the very start, when Garp explained the whole Marines/Warlords/Yonko system. They are merely kept in check. 


Duhul10 said:


> No admiral is above a yonko, else there would be no yonko, as none of them would defend the other.


The same is valid for the Marines. Nothing is guaranteed once you step in enemy territory. They could potentially suffer heavy losses. 

Events are very dynamic in OP. WB couldn't even make a move without two other Yonko getting involved even before he reached his destination. They do move that fast. 

Admirals~Yonko

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## YonkoDrippy (Mar 15, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Really? This man?
> OH that holding back excuse from yankers, I got you
> 
> His crew knows how he fights
> Keep making up false headcannon, Admirals=Yonkos


Old Whitebeard was still the worlds strongest man. Not MF WB who was having heart attacks left and right. Akainu wouldnt have even landing some hits on WB if it wasnt for the heart attacks. Just cause his crew knows how he fights doesnt mean he was going all out. Sengoku said WB could destroy the world with his quakes if he went all out. Even Tsuru said there's no where on the planet she could run to when facing WB. it was literally implied WB waa gonna sink MF when Ace was free. which shows he was holding back

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## Dunno (Mar 15, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> BM stopped and got past Marco a million times quicker and more easily than any of the C3
> BM handled G4 Luffy going all out better than (A holding back) Fuji handled G3 non serious Luffy
> 
> When Luffy had a choice between facing Fuji or running away he said "I can't keep running from people on your level".
> ...


This is the most important statement in this post. "Whenever the plot allows it" is a great way of saying "I ignore every bad feat Big Mom has". Big Mom has gotten her ass kicked by King, and she has been dealt with quite easily by people like Jinbei, Brook and Nami. No other top tier has had as terrible showings as Big Mom, and the evidence that you even think so yourself is in the bolded statement.

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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 15, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> Old Whitebeard was still the worlds strongest man. Not MF WB who was having heart attacks left and right


One heart attack...


YonkoDrippy said:


> Akainu wouldnt have even landing some hits on WB if it wasnt for the heart attacks


one heart attack....


YonkoDrippy said:


> Just cause his crew knows how he fights doesnt mean he was going all out.


He was going all-out but the admirals were holding back more than he was, he was prepared to die and wanted to take Navy hq with him


YonkoDrippy said:


> Sengoku said WB could destroy the world with his quakes if he went all out


hyperbole just a hype statement


YonkoDrippy said:


> Even Tsuru said there's no where on the planet she could run to when facing WB. it was literally implied WB waa gonna sink MF when Ace was free. which shows he was holding back


Yes, ace was dead whitebeard went all against sakakuzi and were equals
kizaru got the best of whitebeard
aokiji was got the best of him, the admirals held back more than him


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## Beast (Mar 15, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> BM stopped and got past Marco a million times quicker and more easily than any of the C3
> BM handled G4 Luffy going all out better than (A holding back) Fuji handled G3 non serious Luffy
> 
> When Luffy had a choice between facing Fuji or running away he said "I can't keep running from people on your level".
> ...


BM ran from Marco lol, she never dealt with him.

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## Gianfi (Mar 15, 2021)

No one of course. She is too versatile for them, she has different elemental attacks, but she can also use a sword  or just her brute force. she's like aokiji + akainu in one person. So yeah, there is a reason she has been an empress for decades, they can do nothing against her

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## Duhul10 (Mar 15, 2021)

Beast said:


> BM ran from Marco lol, she never dealt with him.


He was closer to getting beaten to a pulp than he ever was. BM was luckily in a hurry, fact proven by her disinterest in the SHs as well.

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## Ruse (Mar 15, 2021)

Maybe Akainu and that’s it.

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## Pagn6 (Mar 15, 2021)

All of them can beat her. If she fights against an admiral of the C3, I would bet on the admiral. If she fights against Fujitora or Greenbull, I would bet on her.

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## Nikseng (Mar 15, 2021)

Beast said:


> BM ran from Marco lol, she never dealt with him.


EVERYONE runs from Marco

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## ShadoLord (Mar 15, 2021)

The colored trio. 

Big Meme being as clumsy and an idiot as she is will probably find it hard to bypass the C3 FS+logia shifting if even WB had trouble connecting throughout the war. The same cannot be said for Big Meme and her defenses might as well be paper in the face of the C3 firepower.

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## Sloan (Mar 15, 2021)

Akainu isn't losing to Big Mom imo.

The rest, not sure, but all of them would push her pretty hard even if they lose.

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## Duhul10 (Mar 15, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> He was closer to getting beaten to a pulp than he ever was. BM was luckily in a hurry, fact proven by her disinterest in the SHs as well.


Oh Lord, the Marco gang is punching the air and calling me optimistic. How in hell will I live knowing this ?

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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 15, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Oh Lord, the Marco gang is punching the air and calling me optimistic. How in hell will I live knowing this ?


Big mom was getting stalled by marco, the strongest yc1, Bm is kaido equal nothing wrong with that

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## Ezekjuninor (Mar 15, 2021)

In the comparisons we can actually make between BM and admirals such as Big Mom vs Luffy compared to Fujitora vs Luffy and Big Mom vs Marco compared to Kizaru vs Marco she's actually performed far better. Just because she has multiple gag scenes doesn't make her weaker than admirals. I'd favour her over any admiral, but I wouldn't be surprised if Akainu was very slightly stronger.

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## Strobacaxi (Mar 15, 2021)

Beast said:


> BM ran from Marco lol, she never dealt with him.


Tell me, when akainu wanted to get past Marco to kill Luffy and Marco stood in his way, did Akainu get past him? No
When Kizaru wanted to get past Marco to attack WB and Marco stood in his way, did Kizaru get past him? No.

When BM wanted to get past Marco to get to Kaido and Marco stood in her way, what exactly happened? Last I checked, BM chokeheld Marco easily, and then threw him away and kept going towards her goal and reached it without caring about anyone or anything

And you can keep ignoring the whole helplessly choked part, but the panels aren't going to be erased. BM wrecked Marco's ass

Reactions: Like 1


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## Duhul10 (Mar 15, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Big mom was getting stalled by marco, the strongest yc1, Bm is kaido equal nothing wrong with that


Big mom was BDSM choking Marco and laughing at him. Then she left for she was hurrying to reach Kaido. She ignored each and everyone in her way.

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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 15, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Big mom was BDSM choking Marco and laughing at him. Then she left for she was hurrying to reach Kaido. She ignored each and everyone in her way.


Wait so Marco>King&Queen since he choked both of them simultaneously?


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## Nikseng (Mar 15, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Tell me, when akainu wanted to get past Marco to kill Luffy and Marco stood in his way, did Akainu get past him? No
> When Kizaru wanted to get past Marco to attack WB and Marco stood in his way, did Kizaru get past him? No.
> 
> When BM wanted to get past Marco to get to Kaido and Marco stood in her way, what exactly happened? Last I checked, BM chokeheld Marco easily, and then threw him away and kept going towards her goal and reached it without caring about anyone or anything
> ...


While I agree with the rest, now that's just not true...She had the upper hand momentarily but was unable to capitalize on it without external help, so she decided to run away.
She also did 0 damage while her homies were countered and burnt.  This is very far from being *wrecked*.

Reactions: Like 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 15, 2021)

Ezekjuninor said:


> BM and admirals such as Big Mom vs Luffy compared to Fujitora vs Luffy and Big Mom vs Marco compared to Kizaru vs Marco


Really? Comparing two admirals holding back to meme trying to use full power, she did not even do better than kizaru at all
you can see kizaru in the background fighting Marco
A bruise to symbolize he took damage
Another one to symbolize he was inferior to kizaru
While big mom says Marco has a chance to kill her

Kizaru laughs at his attack with Haki

Its honestly too much Koido and Obese dont belong to be grouped with such as the admirals, its disrespectful for the admirals
BB>Admirals=Mihawk>Shanks>Koido and Obese


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## Nikseng (Mar 15, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Big mom was BDSM choking Marco and laughing at him. Then she left for she was hurrying to reach Kaido. She ignored each and everyone in her way.


Are you guys going to keep spreading disinformation and blatantly misinterpret that scene ?

Marco was walling BM and countering her homies, thus she used a grab as a last resort move. Marco was caught momentarily but as per he words, she wasn't able to do much to him without some help. She then deciding to flee away while adressing Marco with deference as someone who could actually *threaten her*.

Furtheremore, she adressed him with utmost respect prior to the clash and treated him like he was her peer*; *whereas such respect wasn't given for any of her kids or the supernovas (Luffy included), but only to her fellow Yonkos.

If anything, this was a highly positive showing for Marco and that clash really cemented the portrayal he always had : ie someone who can hang with the absolute top of the verse; albeit being weaker by some not-so-wide margin.

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## Pirateer (Mar 15, 2021)

I want to think that the C3 are slightly stronger than Yonkos and are all able to defeat her but realistically I think only Akainu wins extreme diff, although Big Mom has some meme portrayals, she's portrayed as an equal to Kaido with a dangerous DF

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Deleted member 58423 (Mar 15, 2021)

issho

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## TheRealSJ (Mar 15, 2021)

Big Mom has arguably the most durable body in the series, like kaido-there's not many ways you can hurt her.
She has the stamina to fight for days, contrary to many's beliefs. She has hands down the most versatile fruit in the series, ANYTHING around her can used to her advantage.
In response to the people calling her a brute, she's actually the only emperor that has demonstrated advanced haki.


If you look on the top left panel you can see the aura of internal destruction haki on her arm, Just like the one coated around hyogoro and luffy's arm.

You can see hyogoro use it on the bottom panels.

You can also see the aura covered around luffy's arm on the left panel, (a bit less visible.)

Kizaru hasn't really impressed me and aokiji gets countered by Prometheus, who unlike magma, can't be frozen since he's fire.

I'd say akainu has a shot at defeating her but only if his magma can damage her tough skin, since the admirals haven't been confirmed to possess or shown internal destruction haki.

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## Duhul10 (Mar 15, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Wait so Marco>King&Queen since he choked both of them simultaneously?


No, as it was proven otherwise. Now he is bruised and Queen takes his time to attack other guys. Marco also looked like he shat himself when BM caught him.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ezekjuninor (Mar 15, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> she did not even do better than kizaru at all


Kizaru had to wait for a distraction to create an opportunity for Onigumo to handcuff Marco. Big Mom created that opportunity in mere moments even though Marco had a perfect counter to Prometheus.

Holding back or not Fujitora was pushed back by Gear 3rd Luffy. BM was able to stand her ground against gear 4th kong gun. It's not like Big Mom was taking Luffy seriously either, she smiles and laughs at him. BM performed better against Gear 4th Luffy than Fujitora did against Gear 3rd Luffy.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Informative 1


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## Strobacaxi (Mar 15, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Wait so Marco>King&Queen since he choked both of them simultaneously?


uhm... I don't remember King and Queen helplessly looking at someone about to shoot them with sweat on their faces and saying "this is bad"



Nikseng said:


> She had the upper hand momentarily but was unable to capitalize on it without external help, so she decided to run away.


lolwut?
Brother get some reading comprehension goggles lol

She didn't want to be on the sidelines
She wanted to be on the real fight on the roof
Marco can't be easily or quickly killed. That's a fact.
She didn't want to spend her time or energy to actually kill Marco, so she threw him away and went to where she wanted to go originally. 

This guy actually thinks a Yonko can't kill Marco without help LOOL



Nikseng said:


> Marco was walling BM and countering her homies, thus she used a grab as a last resort move.


Yeah, I'm not even gonna bother with your post lol

"She used a GRAB as a last resort move"

ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Hey guys, this YONKO's BASIC DF ABILITIES WERE STOPPED! SHE IS UTTERLY HELPLESS NOW!!!! SHE MUST RESORT TO.... GRABBING! IT'S HER LAST RESORT MOVE!!!!!!!!

Seriously get a grip


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## Nikseng (Mar 15, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> uhm... I don't remember King and Queen helplessly looking at someone about to shoot them with sweat on their faces and saying "this is bad"
> 
> 
> lolwut?
> ...


-flaming-

Where did I say a Yonko can't beat Marco without help ? At that* very moment *with limited homies, she didn't have the right tools to conveniently deal with him. So she left instead of actually beating him cause she couldn't do it that easily.

Are you actually that dumb ?

A last resort move means that using *physical attacks* was one of her last options at that moment since her DF-based attacks were not working.

On the other hand YOU dumb prick said that he was wrecked when he took *0 damage. *How does that work ? When did you drop out of school for having such an abysmal understanding of words ?

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 15, 2021)

Ezekjuninor said:


> Holding back or not Fujitora was pushed back by Gear 3rd Luffy. BM was able to stand her ground against gear 4th kong gun. It's not like Big Mom was taking Luffy seriously either, she smiles and laughs at him. BM performed better against Gear 4th Luffy than Fujitora did against Gear 3rd Luffy.


Yeah you're right, Luffy use G4 on kaido and he got pushed back Meme>Fujitora=Kaido
But now you're going to far, fujitora put on some showings on g3, BM needed Koka for For g4 which is understandably, Fujitora went toe-toe with G3 on his own physical strength no Koka invovled kept up + speedblitz g2, I got some fujitora feats even tho I dont feel like sending
Big meme went toe-toe with marco in physical strength, They used no haki only fruits + physical strength but meme is aware that in a fight marco can kill her


Strobacaxi said:


> uhm... I don't remember King and Queen helplessly looking at someone about to shoot them with sweat on their faces and saying "this is bad"


You mean being worried about Perspero not the yonko right? 


TheRealSJ said:


> In response to the people calling her a brute, she's actually the only emperor that has demonstrated advanced haki.


Old Whitebeard showed Adv Haki, thats impressive for obese

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Strobacaxi (Mar 15, 2021)

Nikseng said:


> Where did I say a Yonko can't beat Marco without help ?


"but was unable to capitalize on it without external help" 
"per he words, she wasn't able to do much to him without some help."

Right there buddy



Nikseng said:


> At that* very moment *with limited homies


What limited homies? She had her 3 homies on her lol. BM is fully powered in Onigashima.
Oh wait, you're right, she doesn't have the fodder homies that ran away from Cracker's mere presence. Oh no, how can she ever fight without those?!?!?!?!?!



Nikseng said:


> So she left instead of actually beating him cause she couldn't do it that easily.


Changing sides I see.
But what you meant to say was, BM wanted to go to the roof, Marco stood in her way, and she easily and quickly got rid of him and went on her merry way.

Not "but was unable to capitalize on it without external help, so she decided to run away." . See what that sentence implies is that she ran away because she couldn't beat him.
Next time, when you want to say something, say it, don't say something completely different and pretend anyone who can't read your mind is dumb


Nikseng said:


> A last resort move means that using *physical attacks* was one of her last options at that moment since her DF-based attacks were not working.


One DF based attack from her didn't work. It's not a last resort to use your fists on a fight lol wtf are you saying. She used one DF attack which was countered by Marco's DF, and instead of wasting time trying to find the right DF ability to fight him, she used her body. That's not a last resort move at all lol

Last resort means just that. A last resort. Everything else failed. You claim "everything failed" after one single attack failed. Which is, once again, wrong.




Nikseng said:


> On the other hand YOU dumb prick said that he was wrecked when he took *0 damage. *How does that work ? When did you drop out of school for having such an abysmal understanding of words ?


First of all I don't know you from anywhere for you to speak to me like that. Learn to argue without insulting people. I know it's hard to be wrong, but that's not my fault. Also, just a small FYI, english is my third language and I'm still correcting yours.

Let me help you out though

Marco said "I know how dangerous you are I can't let you pass"
BM then easily grabbed his neck, kept grabbing him while he was helpless af, threw him away and went on her merry way exactly as planned.

That's being wrecked. See when your only goal is to stall, and you manage to stall for a whole 5 seconds, you failed, miserably. And you got wrecked.

Thanks class, that'll be all for today


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## Shunsuiju (Mar 15, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Marco said "I know how dangerous you are I can't let you pass"
> BM then easily grabbed his neck, kept grabbing him while he was helpless af, threw him away and went on her merry way exactly as planned.


That's not what happened.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Mar 15, 2021)

Probably none since she'd be in jail if that was the case.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ezekjuninor (Mar 15, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Yeah you're right, Luffy use G4 on kaido and he got pushed back Meme>Fujitora=Kaido


You realise Kaidou didn't block right.


GreenEggsAHam said:


> speedblitz g2


When did this ever happen?


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## gunchar (Mar 15, 2021)

Obviously none of them except maybe Akainu, but he kinda isn't even an Admiral anymore.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Dislike 2


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## Gokou08 (Mar 15, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> None of them. The BM pirates would've been history if the contrary was true. 2 admirals would have completely annihilated her entire empire.


I mean, if she can solo her own crew, why can't an admiral do it? 
Especially Akainu since he doesn't fuck around..


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## gunchar (Mar 15, 2021)

Gokou08 said:


> I mean, if she can solo her own crew, why can't an admiral do it?
> Especially Akainu since he doesn't fuck around..


Pretty sure that was his point(in the sense of that it isn't logical that it didn't happen if the Marine would have multiple BM+ Monsters).

Reactions: Agree 1 | Dislike 1


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## Richard Lionheart (Mar 15, 2021)

BM certainly performed better against Yonko Commanders or Luffy than any Admiral. She treated Queen like a doll and stopped G4/Marco without any great effort. I would give her the nod over any Admiral.  Same with Kaido, he has beaten G4 Luffy with a single hit. 
By feats they are both outshining the Admirals.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## Corax (Mar 15, 2021)

Dunno said:


> This is the most important statement in this post. "Whenever the plot allows it" is a great way of saying "I ignore every bad feat Big Mom has". Big Mom has gotten her ass kicked by King, and she has been dealt with quite easily by people like Jinbei, Brook and Nami. No other top tier has had as terrible showings as Big Mom, and the evidence that you even think so yourself is in the bolded statement.


This really. If Jinbei stops Akainu's punch or BM's named attack in my opinion it just to show us that he is great,not some "plot" bs argument. Yeah,she was trolled hard by far weaker chars than Jinbei anyway.  Double standards much.  And it was abysmal. Akainu being blitzed by Brook, burnt by Nami's lightning, rolled out by Robin and facerolled by Franky's bike?Impossible.


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## Duhul10 (Mar 15, 2021)

Gokou08 said:


> I mean, if she can solo her own crew, why can't an admiral do it?
> Especially Akainu since he doesn't fuck around..


An admiral may or may not do that, but that was not my point.


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## Duhul10 (Mar 15, 2021)

Corax said:


> This really. If Jinbei stops Akainu's punch or BM's named attack in my opinion it just to show us that he is great,not some "plot" bs argument. Yeah,she was trolled hard by far weaker chars than Jinbei anyway.  Double standards much.  And it was abysmal. Akainu being blitzed by Brook, burnt by Nami's lightning, rolled out by Robin and facerolled by Franky's bike?Impossible.


Akainu was tagged by part 1 Crocodile and dodged by Buggy. Also nice how you forgot to mention BM's state at that point. Actually not nice at all.


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## Corax (Mar 15, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Akainu was tagged by part 1 Crocodile and dodged by Buggy. Also nice how you forgot to mention BM's state at that point. Actually not nice at all.


Part 1 Croc was at least a Sea warlord who clashed evenly with Mihawk and tanked Jozu's attack. Far above mid. and weak trio members who trolled her. Buggy didn't attack/troll Akainu in any way,he just ran away and was saved by Law (if I am correct).


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## Gokou08 (Mar 15, 2021)

Corax said:


> Part 1 Croc was at least a Sea warlord who clashed evenly with Mihawk and tanked Jozu's attack. Far above mid. and weak trio members who trolled her. Buggy didn't attack/troll Akainu in any way,he just ran away and was saved by Law (if I am correct).


I think Buggy just got luffy in his hands after Croc saved him, and Akainu launched an attack.. Croc also took a shot at a distracted Akainu, same as WB


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## Corax (Mar 15, 2021)

Gokou08 said:


> I think Buggy just got luffy in his hands after Croc saved him, and Akainu launched an attack.. Croc also took a shot at a distracted Akainu, same as WB


I think any non biased reader would say that getting blitzed by Brook twice,facerolled by Franky,rolled out by Robin,burnt by Nami's lightning, stopped by Chopper is a far worse portrayal than getting tagged by MF Croc once. I can only agree that Oda ruined BM's character hard by terrible portrayal. Kinda not my fault,just a well established fact. May be he even did it on purpose.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## MO (Mar 15, 2021)

not a single one.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 2


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## TheWiggian (Mar 15, 2021)

TheRealSJ said:


> Big Mom has arguably the most durable body in the series, like kaido-there's not many ways you can hurt her.
> She has the stamina to fight for days, contrary to many's beliefs. She has hands down the most versatile fruit in the series, ANYTHING around her can used to her advantage.
> In response to the people calling her a brute, she's actually the only emperor that has demonstrated advanced haki.
> 
> ...



That would've been a possibility if Luffy didn't outright state to lose power. Internal CoA haki doesn't suck out energy, nor was Luffy damaged on that occasion.

So there is literally no connection to advanced haki, nice try though.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Duhul10 (Mar 15, 2021)

Corax said:


> I think any non biased reader would say that getting blitzed by Brook twice,facerolled by Franky,rolled out by Robin,burnt by Nami's lightning, stopped by Chopper is a far worse portrayal than getting tagged by MF Croc once. I can only agree that Oda ruined BM's character hard by terrible portrayal. Kinda not my fault,just a well established fact. May be he even did it on purpose.


Definitely not if you are insanely nerfed at that point. Otherwise BM has feats above akainu, such as lol diffing a YC2, is hyped to solo her crew and stalemated the WSC for a good period. And so on, and so forth.


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## Vivo Diez (Mar 15, 2021)

VileNotice said:


> Only Akainu. He's the strongest and has a good matchup against Prometheus, one of her main weapons.


This.

Even Kaido who is supposedly the strongest(or so they say) didn't show a significant advantage over her. I see him needing extreme diff to beat her, maybe it even being as close as Akainu vs Aokiji.

Akainu on the other hand, besides seemingly being the strongest active marine, counters her fire powers with magma pretty hard. And I see his offensive output being great enough to damage her. So going by power and by matchup/counters, Akainu should beat her high-extreme diff.

Kizaru might be able to stalemate her because she'll have a hard time tagging him. Aokiji's ice will have a bit of trouble against Prometheus and I don't see him posessing enough offensive output to cause serious injury, so he would prob lose by a margin.

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheRealSJ (Mar 15, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> That would've been a possibility if Luffy didn't outright state to lose power. Internal CoA haki doesn't suck out energy, nor was Luffy damaged on that occasion.
> 
> So there is literally no connection to advanced haki, nice try though.


To be honest I didn't even pay attention to the detail of luffy losing power, i made the connection for purely aesthetic reasons.


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## TheWiggian (Mar 15, 2021)

TheRealSJ said:


> To be honest I didn't even pay attention to the detail of luffy losing power, i made the connection for purely aesthetic reasons.



Maybe you should correct it then before another rumour like their 3 day fight between Kaido and Mom grows roots.


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## Klarionan (Mar 15, 2021)

Not any single admiral, because Big Mom would be not even a Yonko anymore if they could.

Reactions: Creative 1 | Disagree 1 | Optimistic 2


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## ClannadFan (Mar 15, 2021)

These Yonkou fangirls are gonna be real salty when shounen power creep starts. Can someone tell me how Big Mom could ever even hope to tag Kizaru? He'd troll her to death.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1 | Optimistic 3


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## Kinjin (Mar 15, 2021)

Any Admiral _can_ defeat Big Mom. High or extreme difficulty depending on the Admiral.

"She'd be in jail if they could beat her"
"She wouldn't be a Yonko if they could beat her"

That logic cuts both ways, you know.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 3 | Tier Specialist 2 | Dislike 1


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## Klarionan (Mar 15, 2021)

Kinjin said:


> Any Admiral _can_ defeat Big Mom. High or extreme difficulty depending on the Admiral.
> 
> "She'd be in jail if they could beat her"
> "She wouldn't be a Yonko if they could beat her"
> ...


What are you talking about?

There are 3 admirals and 1 Fleet admiral, and there were the warlords, there is Vegapunk, and so on, and the Marine is a far bigger organization than all Yonko crews together to begin with. Which means the logic can't even cuts both ways, and there is absolute no way Big Mom would be still a Yonko if she would be so weak that an admiral could high diff her or that even someone like Fujitora could beat her, this overestimation of the admirals by thinking Oda would destroy his own over years build up power structure for no good reason is just crazy to me.

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Dislike 1


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## charles101 (Mar 15, 2021)

Kinjin said:


> Any Admiral _can_ defeat Big Mom. High or extreme difficulty depending on the Admiral.
> 
> "She'd be in jail if they could beat her"
> "She wouldn't be a Yonko if they could beat her"
> ...



Marines had C3, Sengoku, Garp, Mihawk, Kong and bunch of other powerful people for years now. If all it'd take to take down BMP would be 2 Admirals and some back up, they would've done it. Even if Kaido would attack them, they would still have 4-5 top tiers waiting for him. I'm saying Kaido, because neither Whitebeard nor Shanks would have teamed up with him and they wouldn't attack Marines for no reason themself. There's ZERO reason for them to leave BMP alone if they were that weak.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 3 | Disagree 1


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## ClannadFan (Mar 15, 2021)

charles101 said:


> Marines had C3, Sengoku, Garp, Mihawk, Kong and bunch of other powerful people for years now. If all it'd take to take down BMP would be 2 Admirals and some back up, they would've done it. Even if Kaido would attack them, they would still have 4-5 top tiers waiting for him. I'm saying Kaido, because neither Whitebeard nor Shanks would have teamed up with him and they wouldn't attack Marines for no reason themself. There's ZERO reason for them to leave BMP alone if they were that weak.


So you're claiming that the C3, Sengoku, Garp, Mihawk, Kong and more are not enough to take down the BMP...but the raid is taking down the Beast Pirates which are roughly equal to the BMP, while the raid does not have even 1 Admiral lvl fighter. Interesting

Reactions: Like 1


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## Zero (Mar 15, 2021)

I chose the Color Trio just because I believe they are stronger than Fujitora and may have a better chance due to their Devil Fruits.

A fight between Kizaru and Big Mom looks hilarious in my head, he'd literally just be dancing around her shooting light beams through her while she's just exhausted trying to keep up.
Big Mom:


I personally think Akainu is stronger than Big Mom just for the fact that he's an endgame villain paralleled with even Blackbeard, so I'm on the assumption that he's going to be stronger.



And Aokiji and Akainu had a 10-day fight so it's only fair to say Aokiji could too since they are about equal. In terms of strength, stamina, and literally everything. If the 10-day fight is how I think it went.

I'm confident Akainu could defeat Big Mom, sort of confident Kizaru and Aokiji could, Fujitora nah.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## LordVinsmoke (Mar 15, 2021)

Akainu and Akoji want to say Fuji but dont know

Reactions: Like 1


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## LordVinsmoke (Mar 15, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Really? This man?
> OH that holding back excuse from yankers, I got you
> 
> His crew knows how he fights
> Keep making up false headcannon, Admirals=Yonkos


You went from Admirals stronger than yonko now to admirals=yonko you making progress

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 4


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## charles101 (Mar 15, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> So you're claiming that the C3, Sengoku, Garp, Mihawk, Kong and more are not enough to take down the BMP...but the raid is taking down the Beast Pirates which are roughly equal to the BMP, while the raid does not have even 1 Admiral lvl fighter. Interesting



Have you read what you just quoted...?

I'm claiming that IF one admiral was stronger than BM and since BM is stronger than her entire crew, then 2 of them (+ some lesser marines maybe) would be more than enough to get rid of her entire crew.

That would still leave 1 admiral, Sengoku, Garp, Mihawk, Kong and others to protect Marineford and Mariejois from Kaido's attack, if he decides to make a move. And he's basically only person who would do that. In other words, they'd have more than enough people to protect their facilities AND arrest/kill BM. Heck, they'd be able to send people after BM and Kaido at the same time and still leave top tiers in their bases. And if so, then why they aren't doing that?

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 2


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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 15, 2021)

LordRice said:


> You went from Admirals stronger than yonko now to admirals=yonko you making progress


Well yes yonkos arent stronger than admirals vice versa.

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Kinjin (Mar 15, 2021)

charles101 said:


> Marines had C3, Sengoku, Garp, Mihawk, Kong and bunch of other powerful people for years now. If all it'd take to take down BMP would be 2 Admirals and some back up, they would've done it. Even if Kaido would attack them, they would still have 4-5 top tiers waiting for him. I'm saying Kaido, because neither Whitebeard nor Shanks would have teamed up with him and they wouldn't attack Marines for no reason themself.


Are you implying that 2 Admirals wouldn't be able to defeat Big Mom? I shouldn't really be surprised since I know your stance regarding Admirals, but wow...

Admirals = Yonko. Both are top tiers meaning it will take no less than high difficulty to beat one another. Since you should be aware of all repeated arguments from both sides by now let's not go down that rabbit hole, shall we?

The main reason why the Marines/WG don't take out a Yonko crew even though they certainly have the assets to do so is because it would disrupt the *balance of the world* which has been emphasized several times in the manga.





> There's ZERO reason for them to leave BMP alone if they were that weak.


There is 0 reasons to leave any Supernova crew alone even though Kizaru defeated many of them, yet here we are. There are plenty of plot reasons why Marines don't operate like you assume they do.

Big Mom is one of the strongest characters in the series and by no means weak, but in your mind an Admiral being able to defeat her means she's weak which is the wrong way to look at things.

Reactions: Like 6 | Winner 2 | Disagree 2


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## ClannadFan (Mar 15, 2021)

charles101 said:


> Have you read what you just quoted...?
> 
> I'm claiming that IF one admiral was stronger than BM and since BM is stronger than her entire crew, then 2 of them (+ some lesser marines maybe) would be more than enough to get rid of her entire crew.
> 
> That would still leave 1 admiral, Sengoku, Garp, Mihawk, Kong and others to protect Marineford and Mariejois from Kaido's attack, if he decides to make a move. And he's basically only person who would do that. In other words, they'd have more than enough people to protect their facilities AND arrest/kill BM. Heck, they'd be able to send people after BM and Kaido at the same time and still leave top tiers in their bases. And if so, then why they aren't doing that?


Misread 1 of the points, but essentially you're claiming 2 Admirals plus help can't take on the BMP. Which is still ridiculous considering what the Raid is doing to the Beast Pirates plus Big Mom. 2 Admirals plus a reasonable amount of help is destorying the BMP. Kizaru could keep Big Mom busy for days, while Akainu takes out the Commanders then helps finish the fight, if Big Mom isn't already dead by then. None of the Yonkou fangirls have given a legitimate answer of how Big Mom is tagging Kizaru yet.

Reactions: Like 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Klarionan (Mar 15, 2021)

Kinjin said:


> Are you implying that 2 Admirals wouldn't be able to defeat Big Mom? I shouldn't really be surprised since I know your stance regarding Admirals, but wow...
> 
> Admirals = Yonko. Both are top tiers meaning it will take no less than high difficulty to beat one another. Since you should be aware of all repeated arguments from both sides by now let's not go down that rabbit hole, shall we?
> 
> ...


If you would be right could 1 admiral do it with good planning.

You are contradicting yourself, if  Yonko = Admirals would you have said any admiral could beat Big Mom and Big Mom could beat any admiral, with no less than extreme diff for any of them.

There would have never been a reason to even let Big Mom become a Yonko if she would be as weak as you say.

There woud be also plenty of plot reasons for any single bad showing of Big Mom so far.

I don't know what he thinks, but if Big Mom could get beaten by any admiral and some even just with high diff, is she too weak for her position and shouldn't be a Yonko.

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Tier Specialist 4


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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 15, 2021)

Klarionan said:


> with


Dont even need planning, the admirals are mass-destruction themselves we saw what sakauzi did with one simple meteor volcano and it destroyed an whole crew in the process 


Klarionan said:


> You are contradicting yourself, if Yonko = Admirals would you have said any admiral could beat Big Mom and Big Mom could beat any admiral, with no less than extreme diff for any of them.


Well yes but there are also bad matchups Kaido/BIg meme Both Lack Top CoO to fight Kizaru than ontop of that they lack Barrier Haki


Klarionan said:


> reason


Yonkos aren't strength based only admirals are LOL


Klarionan said:


> There woud be also plenty of plot reasons for any single bad showing of Big Mom so far.


Excuse


Klarionan said:


> I don't know what he thinks, but if Big Mom could get beaten by any admiral and some even just with high diff, is she too weak for her position and shouldn't be a Yonko.


Show me one-panel please of someone referring to yonkos as individuals strength? they're not admirals
Here's what it take to become a yonko
-Good Crew
-Influence
-territory ./ Land
-Keep Pirates from finding the one piece
Here's what it take to become an admiral
-Freak Strength
-Able to take a crew by yourself
-Can fight on par with yonkos/Beat them

Also Meme is Kaido equal so Kaidos to weak to be an yonko?

Reactions: Like 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## LordVinsmoke (Mar 15, 2021)

Big Mom was arguably the weakest yonko besides teach

Reactions: Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 15, 2021)

LordRice said:


> besides


Teach is the strongest, Hostage and Meme are the weakest been saying that but people overdose the fake hype of Hostage

Reactions: Funny 4 | Dislike 1


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## Fujitora (Mar 16, 2021)

Doflamingo said:


> And this is exactly why I think she couldn’t beat all of them lol.
> 
> She can beat the new admirals Fuji & Green Bull, probably. Kizaru possibly(I have no proof that Kiz>=Aokiji but I think he is). Aokiji and Akainu can take her imo. They’ll never get sent flying by Jinbe or Robin, or be shitting themselves against R5 from time to time.


Plot plot no mi would do that to any top tier that had the misfortune of going against the Holy straw hats and their plot progression.

When we discuss fights, we remove plot from the equation.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Furinji Saiga (Mar 16, 2021)

Well considering they are on the same level. Any of them can, basically a toss-up/extreme difficulty match.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Corax (Mar 16, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Definitely not if you are insanely nerfed at that point. Otherwise BM has feats above akainu, such as lol diffing a YC2, is hyped to solo her crew and stalemated the WSC for a good period. And so on, and so forth.


How she was nerfed if she had all homies and was healthy at the banquet hall and still facerolled by Franky,rolled out by Robin and blitzed by Brook (also her homie was sliced in half)?

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Delta Shell (Mar 16, 2021)

I don't think any Admiral can take shanks btw. I based this on nothing at all.

Lord D Coast > Shanks > C3

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Red Admiral (Mar 16, 2021)

No Admiral can beat a Monster above all Monsters   ....

they might be able to give a good fight but Big Mom is Kaido's true equal ... so above all admirals by default

people have to keep in mind ... Kaido tried to go full power (real) on SNs ... Big Mom still holding back
she is a monster equal to Kaido ... proven in any possible way

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Tier Specialist 3


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## Fel1x (Mar 16, 2021)

Akainu was humiliated like some street dog by dead non-haki Yonko
any other Yonko would mop the floor with him with ease

admirals can only dream about even be miles close to any Yonko

the only marine whose dream became a reality is Garp. and even so Garp  was very close to Roger and WB, not their true equal

Reactions: Like 2 | Disagree 3


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## Sloan (Mar 16, 2021)

“If an Admiral can extreme diff a Yonkou why don’t the Marines just go take out a Yonkou and their crew, hell they could arguably defeat two Yonkous together if that's the case so why haven’t they?”

This point has been outstanding for a decade+.  It sucked than and it sucks now with even more corroboration from the story.

Koby says they don't have the manpower to send significant forces to Wano.



Akainu says the Marines are too busy to send forces to Wano.  He also says they don't have the man power currently to spare.



Garp says if the balance of these powers brake, the world will fall into disarray.



What Garp says is corroborated by Doflamingo/Joker being defeated and taking out of the picture, as the biggest/top broker in the under world his absence left a void and vaccum in the New World.  His very defeat left countries defenseless, unable to fend for themselves anymore because of not being supplied weapons', it was total chaos.

.


This is important because the Yonkou rule like Emperors in the New World, owning massive amounts of land, countries and resources.  The same thing that happened after Doflamingo's defeat would happen again if a Yonkou were to fall.  The Marines clearly do not want that as has been portrayed.  There are far too many variables and possibilities that could happen if the Navy were to attempt to just attack Yonkous willy nilly.

Blackbeard even implies he wants to recruit the Shichibukai since the Marines discarded them.



So now you send Two Admirals+Back up to Wano to deal with the Beast Pirates+Big Mom Pirates.  Yet Blackbeard(Another Yonkou) is going to intercept a significant portion of their troops while attempting to recruit the Shichibukai?  That's Three Yonkous+The Shichibukai and their crew along with the Marines in a squabble.

What of the Revolutionaries?  Are they going to sit idly while two Yonkous are in a war at Wano and a third in Blackbeard is clashing with the Marines as well?  Is Shanks going to sit by while all of this happens?

Admirals are the strongest military force the WG have, and the 4 Yonkou are the strongest Pirates in the New World.  Admirals and Yonkou are peers through and through.  No Admiral or Yonkou is losing to one another with anything less than a High diff and likely taking at least a full day or longer to end that fight if it's a fair one.  Nothing in story suggests that the Navy can just go attack the Yonkou on a whim regardless if they are just as strong as them, or slightly weaker or that they would even want to.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Ezekjuninor (Mar 16, 2021)

LordRice said:


> Big Mom was arguably the weakest yonko besides teach


Big Mom has far better feats than Shanks.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 1 | Friendly 1


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## Mihawk (Mar 16, 2021)

Doflamingo said:


> The C3


Forgive me but I really don’t see why Issho has proven he can take down a Yonko. He should be generally close to the OG admirals, but has he shown anything that implies he can absolutely take down Kaido or Big Mom?

He’d also lose to Shanks and future Blackbeard. _Maybe _he has what it takes to beat the weakest of the Emperors, but even that requires no less than extreme diff.

Green Bull is an exception. Haven’t seen him, but if he’s slightly stronger than Fuji, then maybe

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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 16, 2021)

Doflamingo said:


> Forgive me but I really don’t see why Issho has proven he can take down a Yonko. He should be generally close to the OG admirals, but has he shown anything that implies he can absolutely take down Kaido or Big Mom?


Barrier Haki + Top TIer CoO, + SPEED + Meteors can get fast that doffy + law can barley react to it in a nick of time, Kaido has nothing sharp enough to fight him, big mom has her sword move but he can spam that


Doflamingo said:


> He’d also lose to Shanks and future Blackbeard. _Maybe _he has what it takes to beat the weakest of the Emperors, but even that requires no less than extreme diff.


BB is the strongest, shanks is only said to fight equally on the admiral rank 


Doflamingo said:


> Green Bull is an exception. Haven’t seen him, but if he’s slightly stronger than Fuji, then maybe


Greenbull is the strongest , yes stronger than kizaru
When we were first introduced it went like Aokiji(weakest), Kizaru(2nd), Akaniu(strongest + silhouette til introduced
Fujitora(weakest), Kizaru(2nd introduced Post-TS), Greenbull (silhouette + last introduced

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mihawk (Mar 16, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Barrier Haki + Top TIer CoO, + SPEED + Meteors can get fast that doffy + law can barley react to it in a nick of time,


It was a casual technique that means nothing to a Yonko or another Admiral.


GreenEggsAHam said:


> Kaido has nothing sharp enough to fight him,


?


GreenEggsAHam said:


> big mom has her sword move but he can spam that


They don't need to fight him just with swords. They have superior durability, physical strength, and can dish out damage that easily wipes out mountains.


GreenEggsAHam said:


> BB is the strongest,


We'll see.


GreenEggsAHam said:


> shanks is only said to fight equally on the admiral rank


Where was this stated?


GreenEggsAHam said:


> Greenbull is the strongest , yes stronger than kizaru
> When we were first introduced it went like Aokiji(weakest), Kizaru(2nd), Akaniu(strongest + silhouette til introduced
> Fujitora(weakest), Kizaru(2nd introduced Post-TS), Greenbull (silhouette + last introduced



Nah the C3 were special. Kizaru and Akainu have been around forever since they were young, while Aokiji was their nigh equal. One of them also became one of the main antagonists of the entire series.

I'm hyped for Green Bull.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 16, 2021)

Doflamingo said:


> It was a casual technique that means nothing to a Yonko or another Admiral.


He can hurt a yonko + travels at very fast speed, but I can agree greenbull did say he can make continent size meteor 


Doflamingo said:


> ?


So nothing that can stop a meteor? bad matchup for Kaido than


Doflamingo said:


> They don't need to fight him just with swords. They have superior durability, physical strength, and can dish out damage that easily wipes out mountains.


Fujitora can easily level a country of rubble in about 7-8 Panels fully, thats a combat feat rather than Kaido lifting Oni which isn't a combat feat at all, Momo will do that, Now durability doesn't matter when you have gravity + Advanced Haki I can say the same thing about mom/Kaido lacking Top tier CoO + Barrier Haki to fight Kizaru


Doflamingo said:


> We'll see.


Yes


Doflamingo said:


> Where was this stated?


Just search it up it was from one of Oda's editors 


Doflamingo said:


> Nah the C3 were special. Kizaru and Akainu have been around forever since they were young, while Aokiji was their nigh equal. One of them also became one of the main antagonists of the entire series.


Obviously Oda is intending for greenbull to be the brightest out of kizaru/Fujtiora  his silhouette + last introduced 


Doflamingo said:


> I'm hyped for Green Bull.


Bull>Kizaru>Fujitora

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Mihawk (Mar 16, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> He can hurt a yonko + travels at very fast speed, but I can agree greenbull did say he can make continent size meteor


Of course he can hurt a Yonko, he's an Admiral lol. 


GreenEggsAHam said:


> So nothing that can stop a meteor? bad matchup for Kaido than


Don't troll. Kaido would destroy that meteor like it was nothing. 


GreenEggsAHam said:


> Fujitora can easily level a country of rubble in about 7-8 Panels fully, thats a combat feat rather than Kaido lifting Oni which isn't a combat feat at all, Momo will do that, Now durability doesn't matter when you have gravity + Advanced Haki I can say the same thing about mom/Kaido lacking Top tier CoO + Barrier Haki to fight Kizaru


What country of rubble? Kaido lifting Oni can be scaled as a combat feat as much as it is for physical strength. If he can easily lift the whole thing, you don't think he can just try to bash Issho's head in with it? Of course Issho can counter something like that, but I'd expect nothing less from an Admiral. 

Why wouldn't durability matter? You think Kaido would get smashed by gravity the same way Zoro would? Haha. Fujitora has never been portrayed as some physical beast. So? Has Fujitora demonstrated CoA 3.0? Not on screen anyways. Why do you assume Kizaru can do the same? The same can be said for everything. 


GreenEggsAHam said:


> Yes
> 
> Just search it up it was from one of Oda's editors


If it's not from Oda himself, I'm not buying it. 

Shanks would beat Fujitora, featless or not. 


GreenEggsAHam said:


> Obviously Oda is intending for greenbull to be the brightest out of kizaru/Fujtiora  his silhouette + last introduced


Perhaps. We'll see. 


GreenEggsAHam said:


> Bull>Kizaru>Fujitora


I got Kizaru ahead of both of them.

Reactions: Like 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 16, 2021)

Doflamingo said:


> that


Like I said bad matchup the only way for kaido to destroy it is in his dragon form, so he'll have to be in that all-fight and lose


Doflamingo said:


> What country of rubble? Kaido lifting Oni can be scaled as a combat feat as much as it is for physical strength. If he can easily lift the whole thing, you don't think he can just try to bash Issho's head in with it? Of course Issho can counter something like that, but I'd expect nothing less from an Admiral.


Kaido lifting feat is not a combat feat where you get that from? it's from his flame clouds the same one momsuke will use to stop it, unless you're telling me all of sudden his flame clouds can hurt people


Doflamingo said:


> Why wouldn't durability matter? You think Kaido would get smashed by gravity the same way Zoro would? Haha. Fujitora has never been portrayed as some physical beast. So? Has Fujitora demonstrated CoA 3.0? Not on screen anyways. Why do you assume Kizaru can do the same? The same can be said for everything.


Yes, did you really say Kaido won't get smashed by gravity? Fujitora isn't a physical beast you're right but can keep up with G2 Luffy speedblitz him, than can handle g3 LUFFY WHILST NOT USING COA AT ALL
What's up with NF thinking you need Adv Haki to injure Kaido this has been proven false multiple times, did you not see Kid Or Law Or Killer?Even better Big Meme
Fujitora has barrier Haki kaido does not


Doflamingo said:


> If it's not from Oda himself, I'm not buying it.
> 
> Shanks would beat Fujitora, featless or not.


Shanks is not beating fuji its not a guarantee, Oda editors know the end of one piece so why wouldn't they know if shanks can fight equally on the admiral rank? You're in denial my friend Manga Evidence proves Admirals>Yonkos


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## Mihawk (Mar 16, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Like I said bad matchup the only way for kaido to destroy it is in his dragon form, so he'll have to be in that all-fight and lose


Which is the bad matchup? Kaido doesn't have to be in his Dragon form the whole time lol. He's got enough strength to lift an island casually; breaking a meteor that doesn't reach that capacity shouldn't be too hard for him. In dragon form, he obliterates it.


GreenEggsAHam said:


> Kaido lifting feat is not a combat feat where you get that from? it's from his flame clouds the same one momsuke will use to stop it, unless you're telling me all of sudden his flame clouds can hurt people


Yup, his feat is still a show of power.



You're saying Fujitora has done something similar?



GreenEggsAHam said:


> Yes, did you really say Kaido won't get smashed by gravity?


Yup, if DR Zoro can show a degree of resistance to it, Kaido won't get smashed lol.

Also, Kaido has immense speed, he can just evade Fujitora's gravity fields.


GreenEggsAHam said:


> Fujitora isn't a physical beast you're right but can keep up with G2 Luffy speedblitz him, than can handle g3 LUFFY WHILST NOT USING COA AT ALL


He's not a physical beast _relative to _Kaido. I know he's most likely a physical monster at any other level.


GreenEggsAHam said:


> What's up with NF thinking you need Adv Haki to injure Kaido this has been proven false multiple times, did you not see Kid Or Law Or Killer?Even better Big Meme
> Fujitora has barrier Haki kaido does not


You're the one who brought up Haki. Stop going off topic.

You brought up swordsmanship and how they can't match Fujitora or deal with his meteors, which is obviously false. I said they don't need swords to fight him, and they have superior stats in other areas, including DC, which proves they can more than destroy those meteors.

And what of barrier Haki? Marco has shown barrier haki, and so has Rayleigh. They're not beating no Yonko either.




GreenEggsAHam said:


> Shanks is not beating fuji its not a guarantee, Oda editors know the end of one piece so why wouldn't they know if shanks can fight equally on the admiral rank?



It's not a guarantee, but his portrayal has been superior to this point.



GreenEggsAHam said:


> You're in denial my friend Manga Evidence proves Admirals>Yonkos





I'm glad you're having a good time, my friend.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Neutral 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 16, 2021)

Doflamingo said:


> Which is the bad matchup? Kaido doesn't have to be in his Dragon form the whole time lol. He's got enough strength to lift an island casually; breaking a meteor that doesn't reach that capacity shouldn't be too hard for him. In dragon form, he obliterates it.


Flame Clouds =/= Strength


Doflamingo said:


> has


 Yeah fujitora can easily destroy the tallest/largest continent
Ill say it again its alright if you love wanking kodio but you should know by now Flame Clouds=/= Strength


Doflamingo said:


> You brought up swordsmanship and how they can't match Fujitora or deal with his meteors, which is obviously false. I said they don't need swords to fight him, and they have superior stats in other areas, including DC, which proves they can more than destroy those meteors


I never meant a sword like that, I was referring to big meme ikou soveringty Kaido Lacks DC he cant do anything


Doflamingo said:


> And what of barrier Haki? Marco has shown barrier haki, and so has Rayleigh. They're not beating no Yonko either.


You do see the barrier effect when zoro air slash hits his sword than later you can see he puts his sword on another side.


Doflamingo said:


> portrayal


portrayal has also put shanks above meme and kaido right?

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Mihawk (Mar 16, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Flame Clouds =/= Strength


Gravity df=/=strength


GreenEggsAHam said:


> Yeah fujitora can easily destroy the tallest/largest continent
> Ill say it again its alright if you love wanking kodio but you should know by now Flame Clouds=/= Strength



Again, please stop trolling. Posting this panel and blowing it out of proportion is a joke, and you know it. 

"This Meeting" =/= the entire continent of Mariejoa lol. 


GreenEggsAHam said:


> Kaido Lacks DC he cant do anything


He casually destroyed an entire mountain with a lower end technique. It's same thing that people like Mihawk, Aokiji, Whitebeard, are capable of. 


GreenEggsAHam said:


> You do see the barrier effect when zoro air slash hits his sword than later you can see he puts his sword on another side.


Yeah your point? 

How does this prove Kaido gets "smashed"?



GreenEggsAHam said:


> portrayal has also put shanks above meme and kaido right?



I got Shanks above them both too.


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## VileNotice (Mar 16, 2021)

Sloan said:


> “If an Admiral can extreme diff a Yonkou why don’t the Marines just go take out a Yonkou and their crew, hell they could arguably defeat two Yonkous together if that's the case so why haven’t they?”
> 
> This point has been outstanding for a decade+.  It sucked than and it sucks now with even more corroboration from the story.
> 
> ...


This is all true, but based on portrayal the high diff fights between Yonko and admirals you speak of are still all going in the Yonko’s favor, unless we’re talking about post-skip Sakazuki, who will push them to extreme diff if not win.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Mihawk (Mar 16, 2021)

IMO: Shanks~Akainu~Teach~Kaido>=Aokiji~BM~Kizaru>=Fujitora~Green Bull

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 16, 2021)

Doflamingo said:


> Gravity df=/=strength


Combat feat for fujitora, not a combat feat for kaido simple logic 


Doflamingo said:


> He casually destroyed an entire mountain with a lower end technique. It's same thing that people like Mihawk, Aokiji, Whitebeard, are capable of.


Stop thats his signature attack, now you're trying to justify it with saying its a lower end technique, Fujitora is capable of splitting islands with his meteors 


Doflamingo said:


> How does this prove Kaido gets "smashed"?


How does fujitora get smashed? 

Right now tell me how Kaido gets past Kizaru without Barrier Haki and top tier CoO??


Doflamingo said:


> them


And Mihawk is above shanks, shanks can fight an admiral equally its good.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 16, 2021)

VileNotice said:


> This is all true, but based on portrayal the high diff fights between Yonko and admirals you speak of are still all going in the Yonko’s favor, unless we’re talking about post-skip Sakazuki, who will push them to extreme diff if not win.


So you're trying to take sakazui away from the admirals and bring him into the yonko talk when all admirals are equally next to each other, guess we can do the same with Kaido, Kaido is the only one out of the yonkos that can give an admiral an ext diff

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Mihawk (Mar 16, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Combat feat for fujitora, not a combat feat for kaido simple logic


Nope, not the point. You said his flame clouds had nothing to do with strength, even though he lifted the island.

Fujitora lifts the rubble of Dressrosa using his devil fruit power. Has nothing to do with strength.


GreenEggsAHam said:


> Stop thats his signature attack, now you're trying to justify it with saying its a lower end technique, Fujitora is capable of splitting islands with his meteors


What signature attack? It's something he can spam, same as Fuji's meteors.

And I already acknowledged in my initial post that Fuji brought them down casually. Not sure what the dispute is.


GreenEggsAHam said:


> How does fujitora get smashed?


Huh? Fujitora can destroy Onigashima probs.

Kaido still wins the fight.



GreenEggsAHam said:


> Right now tell me how Kaido gets past Kizaru without Barrier Haki and top tier CoO??


Is this a joke? Who cares if he doesn't have it? I just told you Marco and Rayleigh have barrier Haki, and the latter has top tier CoO.
You think either of them are beating Kaido even if they have it?



GreenEggsAHam said:


> And Mihawk is above shanks, shanks can fight an admiral equally its good.


Mihawk is Yonko level most likely. Like Shanks, he'd beat Fujitora as well.


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## Corax (Mar 16, 2021)

Doflamingo said:


> He casually destroyed an entire mountain with a lower end technique. It's same thing that people like Mihawk, Aokiji, Whitebeard, are capable of.


Just a top of the hill. A small dig made by Shinobu was enough to avoid his attack. His DC feats are abysmal. Though he can lift things with his flame I assume. WB's DC is>>>>>Kaido's by feats.


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## VileNotice (Mar 16, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> So you're trying to take sakazui away from the admirals and bring him into the yonko talk when all admirals are equally next to each other, guess we can do the same with Kaido, Kaido is the only one out of the yonkos that can give an admiral an ext diff


Sakazuki defeated another admiral as part of his setup to become an EoS villain. He is no doubt now stronger than he was at MF, so I place him along the Yonko.

Per Oda’s words, Sakazuki’s marines are the strongest in history.

Old Sengoku = Fleet Admiral of the pre-skip marines who were used to set up the story, fits that he was weaker than his top enforcers, who are all more relevant than him narratively.

Sakazuki = Fleet Admiral of the marines that the good guys will actually fight, fits that he is stronger than his top enforcers, who are all less relevant than him narratively.


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## Mihawk (Mar 16, 2021)

Corax said:


> Just a top of the hill. A small dig made by Shinobu was enough to avoid his attack. His DC feats are abysmal. Though he can lift things with his flame I assume. WB's DC is>>>>>Kaido's by feats.



Regardless of DC or physical strength alone though, his feats are up there lol.

The point is that the overall demonstration of his power puts him on par with the guys I mentioned, and I'm sorry for not taking precise calc into consideration. Of course, Whitebeard's tsunamis were obviously on a greater scale. Kaido was his rival though. He is not losing to every Admiral lol.

Reactions: Like 1


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## deltaniner (Mar 16, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> So you're trying to take sakazui away from the admirals and bring him into the yonko talk when all admirals are equally next to each other, guess we can do the same with Kaido, Kaido is the only one out of the yonkos that can give an admiral an ext diff


Akainu is blatantly portrayed as being the strongest Admiral. Only one of them to go toe-to-toe with Whitebeard for an extended period of time during Marineford, has the most lethal DF among them, became Fleet Admiral.

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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 16, 2021)

VileNotice said:


> Sakazuki defeated another admiral as part of his setup to become an EoS villain. He is no doubt now stronger than he was at MF, so I place him along the Yonko.


All admirals are on par with the yonkos sakauzi is above everyone since he can fight with the strongest pirate thats where he ranks but ok


deltaniner said:


> Akainu is blatantly portrayed as being the strongest Admiral. Only one of them to go toe-to-toe with Whitebeard for an extended period of time during Marineford, has the most lethal DF among them, became Fleet Admiral.


Yes, only Kaido is portrayed as going equals with any admirals no other yonko


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## Sloan (Mar 16, 2021)

VileNotice said:


> This is all true, but based on portrayal the high diff fights between Yonko and admirals you speak of are still all going in the Yonko’s favor, unless we’re talking about post-skip Sakazuki, who will push them to extreme diff if not win.


Not sure what portrayal you’re talking about but as long as you don’t use the:

“Well why haven’t they taken out the Yonkou 1 or 2 at a time” 

or such/similar arguement which is blatantly a bad one that’s fine.

Aokiji would probably be an extreme diff as well, to a slightly less degree than Akainu.


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## Mihawk (Mar 16, 2021)

Yonko>=Admirals.


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## deltaniner (Mar 16, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Yes, only Kaido is portrayed as going equals with any admirals no other yonko


According to what?


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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 16, 2021)

deltaniner said:


> According to what?


hyped as the strongest pirate after Whitebeard, we seen how close whitebeard and the admirals are close in strength at marineford (while the admirals were holding back)
(only yonko)Kaido=Admirals


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## VileNotice (Mar 16, 2021)

Sloan said:


> Not sure what portrayal you’re talking about but as long as you don’t use the:
> 
> “Well why haven’t they taken out the Yonkou 1 or 2 at a time”
> 
> ...


Kaido neg-diffing FM level Luffy and hakiless BM ragdolling Queen is less work than the admirals took to defeat Yonko commanders who needed distractions to end their fights as quickly. Then there’s Luffy punching Fujitora in G3 vs BM in G4, or dying WB being at worst equal to the admirals at MF.

Aokiji could be extreme diff for BM if Prometheus didn’t partially counter him (not only offensively but more importantly defensively), that makes it high diff for BM for me.

But yes I agree the marines don’t actually want to defeat the Yonko unless they start making direct moves to upset the deadlock, because they provide balance in the New World which the WG has mostly conceded as pirate territory.


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## TheWiggian (Mar 16, 2021)

VileNotice said:


> Kaido neg-diffing FM level Luffy and hakiless BM ragdolling Queen is less work than the admirals took to defeat Yonko commanders who needed distractions to end their fights as quickly. Then there’s Luffy punching Fujitora in G3 vs BM in G4, or dying WB being at worst equal to the admirals at MF.
> 
> Aokiji could be extreme diff for BM if Prometheus didn’t partially counter him (not only offensively but more importantly defensively), that makes it high diff for BM for me.
> 
> But yes I agree the marines don’t actually want to defeat the Yonko unless they start making direct moves to upset the deadlock, because they provide balance in the New World which the WG has mostly conceded as pirate territory.



Not really. You just plucked out the worst feats you could find for the admirals and compared it to the best from the Yonks.

Let's look at the other side of it. Big Mom running from Marco admitting she can't deal with him, Kizaru worked around Marco's powers with seastone chains.

Big Mom getting captured after "ragdolling Queen". Big Mom failing to react to King alongside her whole crew. Aokiji taking down Jozu with a single attack while there is no evidence any other character in the series can achieve the same. If you talk about Fujitora's performance don't forget to bring up W3, middle trio, Jinbei embarrassing Big Mom multiple times aswell and scabbards and SN's vs Kaido.

The Yonko have just as many if not even more negative feats than the admirals.

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## muchentuchen (Mar 16, 2021)

All beat her up, former and the 2 new outsiders.

Reactions: Like 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## VileNotice (Mar 16, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Not really. You just plucked out the worst feats you could find for the admirals and compared it to the best from the Yonks.
> 
> Let's look at the other side of it. Big Mom running from Marco admitting she can't deal with him, Kizaru worked around Marco's powers with seastone chains.
> 
> ...


Yonko get a lot more bad feats like Luffy does to illustrate their bravado and contrast them with the more collected admirals. But their displays of pure power still overshadow the admirals as a whole. Probably the only admiral feat against another character that a Yonko hasn't exceeded is Akainu blowing WB's face off, and we know how weak WB was at the time.


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## Sloan (Mar 16, 2021)

VileNotice said:


> Kaido neg-diffing FM level Luffy and hakiless BM ragdolling Queen is less work than the admirals took to defeat Yonko commanders who needed distractions to end their fights as quickly.


Beginning of Wano Luffy isn't on Marco's level(And he can't eat damage/attacks like Marco either) so the Admirals not being able to dispatch of Marco as easily as Kaidou did Luffy at the time isn't exactly a knock on them.  Marco has better portrayal than generic "Yc1 level". 


VileNotice said:


> Then there’s Luffy punching Fujitora in G3 vs BM in G4,


Fujitora Vs Luffy can hardly be used to scale anything, my thots on that interaction is on this post below in detail:





VileNotice said:


> or dying WB being at worst equal to the admirals at MF.


I don't have MF WB being equal to the Admirals considering he couldn't land a single attack on any of them under neutral circumstances.  A fight between MF WB and a top-tier is basically just delaying the inevitable.  The longer the fight goes on the worse his health affects him and he inevitably takes more and more attacks.  Not to mention the Admirals had much better tanking feats so they have some portrayal to their favor as far as MF beard is concerned.

He can fight at the Top-Tier level for a few hours but that's it, he eventually loses to any Top-Tier unless he can luckily pull off a few Guras.

Another piece of portrayal favoring Admirals being = to Yonkou is when Akainu didn't say to Kizaru:

"No Borsalino, Big Mom and Kaidou are too much for you, or extremely risky of a fight"

He says:

"No Borsalino, remember there's an unknown military force in Wano"




VileNotice said:


> Aokiji could be extreme diff for BM if Prometheus didn’t partially counter him (not only offensively but more importantly defensively), that makes it high diff for BM for me.


Sure, a match-up where one of them has a clear advantage might make it a high diff for Aokiji although I'm not fully convinced Prometheus gives him that much trouble.

We haven't seen any feats from the Admirals since Marineford.  Kaidou looks a bit better taking on the Rooftop 5 currently but than again he's supposed the "Bet on me in a 1vs1" and WSC, and it's his arc.  I'm sure the Admirals will get some pretty nice feats when they are shown again on panel.


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## TheWiggian (Mar 16, 2021)

VileNotice said:


> Yonko get a lot more bad feats like Luffy does to illustrate their bravado and contrast them with the more collected admirals. But their displays of pure power still overshadow the admirals as a whole. Probably the only admiral feat against another character that a Yonko hasn't exceeded is Akainu blowing WB's face off, and we know how weak WB was at the time.



Not only feats, their portrayal as a whole suffers incredibly. The strongest among them with pure power to destroy the world couldn't gain any advantage over a single admiral and needed his commander's to cover him with fruits that not even his peers can overcome (Big Mom running from Marco for example).

So that pure power crap is nonsensical. What's left of the hype after this arc is over? 2 pure power individuals go down and yet the final opponents will be the ultimate military force of the world government.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 16, 2021)

VileNotice said:


> But their displays of pure power still overshadow the admirals as a whole. Probably the only admiral feat against another character that a Yonko hasn't exceeded is Akainu blowing WB's face off, and we know how weak WB was at the time.


How weak was he? weak enough to be the strongest pirate?   
Since you love taking akaniu from the admirals take this one

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mihawk (Mar 16, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> How weak was he? weak enough to be the strongest pirate?


Yeah, and he was one of the Yonko. 

Come back when pre-skip Akainu or Kizaru gets a similar title.

Scan shows Whitebeard already being in horrendous shape prior to getting lasered by Kizaru.


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## VileNotice (Mar 16, 2021)

Sloan said:


> Beginning of Wano Luffy isn't on Marco's level(And he can't eat damage/attacks like Marco either) so the Admirals not being able to dispatch of Marco as easily as Kaidou did Luffy at the time isn't exactly a knock on them.  Marco has better portrayal than generic "Yc1 level".


Marco is a tricky opponent but Big Mom with a DF disadvantage still grabbed him. Kizaru definitely needed his DF to dominate Marco the way he did. 


Sloan said:


> Another piece of portrayal favoring Admirals being = to Yonkou is when Akainu didn't say to Kizaru:
> 
> "No Borsalino, Big Mom and Kaidou are too much for you, or extremely risky of a fight"
> 
> ...


I mean even if Big Mom and Kaido were weaker than admirals two top tiers would be too much for one top tier to handle, it just goes without saying. Oda just wanted to hype up the samurai.



TheWiggian said:


> Not only feats, their portrayal as a whole suffers incredibly. The strongest among them with pure power to destroy the world couldn't gain any advantage over a single admiral and needed his commander's to cover him with fruits that not even his peers can overcome (Big Mom running from Marco for example).
> 
> So that pure power crap is nonsensical. What's left of the hype after this arc is over? 2 pure power individuals go down and yet the final opponents will be the ultimate military force of the world government.


The hype after this arc depends on how they get taken out. If Big Mom is needed as a plot device against Kaido then it's left intact, if they both go down more or less fairly then yeah it's done. I just really doubt that Oda would do that, it seems more likely he's going to have Luffy defeat a Yonko with an asterisk before he takes one on fairly in Blackbeard.



GreenEggsAHam said:


> How weak was he? weak enough to be the strongest pirate?
> Since you love taking akaniu from the admirals take this one


WB was no longer the strongest man once he entered the fray in MF, especially after he got stabbed. He was the weakest Yonko at that point without a doubt. 

So yes all of the admirals were capable of taking him on. But that doesn't change Sakazuki being stronger than the others now.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 16, 2021)

VileNotice said:


> WB was no longer the strongest man once he entered the fray in MF, especially after he got stabbed. He was the weakest Yonko at that point without a doubt.


You're right he wasn't the strongest man the admirals are too strong I get it, but ODA MADE HIM THE STRoNGEST Pirate stop making up these with the headcannon


VileNotice said:


> So yes all of the admirals were capable of taking him on. But that doesn't change Sakazuki being stronger than the others now.


Lies he was the strongest until proven otherwise


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## Sloan (Mar 16, 2021)

VileNotice said:


> Marco is a tricky opponent but Big Mom with a DF disadvantage still grabbed him. Kizaru definitely needed his DF to dominate Marco the way he did.


You said Kaidou had better portrayal because he KO'd a "Yc1" in Luffy.

Surely you're not trying to suggest Big Mom grabbing Marco is equivalent to what Kaidou did to Luffy.  Those are two very different scenes, not even comparable.   As far as Kizaru needing his fruit, Big Mom also said she lacked the homies(Aka components of her fruit) to beat Marco.


VileNotice said:


> I mean even if Big Mom and Kaido were weaker than admirals two top tiers would be too much for one top tier to handle, it just goes without saying. *Oda just wanted to hype up the samurai.*


I wasn't saying this proves that they are weaker but it certainly isn't a piece of portrayal that makes Kizaru look bad in comparison.  

@Bolded is a non argument.  Oda just wanted to hype Kaidou by having him one shot Luffy, fight the Scabbards and the roof top 5.  

And Oda will also hype the Admirals when we see them fight on panel for the first time since Marineford.

I don't mind Big Mom high diffing Kizaru FYI.

Reactions: Like 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 16, 2021)

Doflamingo said:


> Yeah, and he was one of the Yonko.


of course, hes a pirate and hes stronger than your yonkos


Doflamingo said:


> Akainu


why? there not pirates LOL, Akaniu find the one piece in 1 year
Kaido: WAaah 20 years no one piece
BIg mom: WAAh 40 years no one piece
Oda: Yeah that man sakauzi he can find that in one year


Doflamingo said:


> Scan shows Whitebeard already being in horrendous shape prior to getting lasered by Kizaru.


Ok? Oda said he was the strongest even when he had his face clapped, dont forget he 2 shotted BB, that guy scar 2 arm shanks on-guard who was once equal with Mihawk


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## Mihawk (Mar 16, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> of course, hes a pirate and hes stronger than your yonkos


He was a Yonko lol. Shanks & co were in the same group as him, just as how the Admirals were in the same group as Akainu, before timeskip.


GreenEggsAHam said:


> why? there not pirates LOL, Akaniu find the one piece in 1 year
> Kaido: WAaah 20 years no one piece
> BIg mom: WAAh 40 years no one piece
> Oda: Yeah that man sakauzi he can find that in one year


WSM=automatically the strongest pirate.

And I got Akainu on the same level as all of them. He might even get the W against some of them.


GreenEggsAHam said:


> Ok? Oda said he was the strongest even when he had his face clapped, dont forget he 2 shotted BB, that guy scar 2 arm shanks on-guard who was once equal with Mihawk



And Shanks was portrayed as his equal when he had no injuries lol. If you're gonna bring up a scan of Kizaru shooting a laser against WB, then remember that as well.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 16, 2021)

Doflamingo said:


> He was a Yonko lol. Shanks & co were in the same group as him, just as how the Admirals were in the same group as Akainu, before timeskip.


Mistranslation they're the same level as him in political/military power


Doflamingo said:


> WSM=automatically the strongest pirate.


so Oda gave him strongest pirate for WSM? Even better for the admirals 


Doflamingo said:


> And Shanks was portrayed as his equal when he had no injuries lol. If you're gonna bring up a scan of Kizaru shooting a laser against WB, then remember that as well


Please, dont play that shanks was his equal thing a small clash doesn't mean anything its not a fight who was the strongest pirate? the strongest man? oh should I show you shanks calling whitebeard at the top on his own ship?
Shanks even says whitebeard is at the top


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## TheWiggian (Mar 16, 2021)

VileNotice said:


> The hype after this arc depends on how they get taken out. If Big Mom is needed as a plot device against Kaido then it's left intact, if they both go down more or less fairly then yeah it's done. I just really doubt that Oda would do that, it seems more likely he's going to have Luffy defeat a Yonko with an asterisk before he takes one on fairly in Blackbeard.



Don't you find it interesting that according to the majority the strongest individuals fall before weaker ones? In a shounen at that?

Reactions: Like 1


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## VileNotice (Mar 16, 2021)

Sloan said:


> You said Kaidou had better portrayal because he KO'd a "Yc1" in Luffy.
> 
> Surely you're not trying to suggest Big Mom grabbing Marco is equivalent to what Kaidou did to Luffy.  Those are two very different scenes, not even comparable.   As far as Kizaru needing his fruit, Big Mom also said she lacked the homies(Aka components of her fruit) to beat Marco.
> 
> ...


I guess we're not really disagreeing. Marco is stronger than the average YC1 but I wouldn't say Jozu is, and Aokiji still needed a distraction to one-shot him while Kaido one-shot Luffy without one. To me BM's statement meant that she just needed her homies to beat him a reasonable amount of time when she was in a rush, but I guess that's up to interpretation.

I only think Yonko are a small step above admirals aside from Sakazuki. They aren't defeating them with less than a high diff fight. Admirals will be hyped when their time comes but so will the remaining Yonko in Blackbeard and Shanks.

I do generally think people overestimate how much of a force of nature a single admiral is in terms of instantly destroying an island via awakening it into their element or whatever. PH had its climate changed after a 10 day fight, it wasn't a simple flex of power.


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## TheWiggian (Mar 16, 2021)

VileNotice said:


> I guess we're not really disagreeing. Marco is stronger than the average YC1 but *I wouldn't say Jozu is, and Aokiji still needed a distraction to one-shot him while Kaido one-shot Luffy without one.* To me BM's statement meant that she just needed her homies to beat him a reasonable amount of time when she was in a rush, but I guess that's up to interpretation.
> 
> I only think Yonko are a small step above admirals aside from Sakazuki. They aren't defeating them with less than a high diff fight. Admirals will be hyped when their time comes but so will the remaining Yonko in Blackbeard and Shanks.
> 
> I do generally think people overestimate how much of a force of nature a single admiral is in terms of instantly destroying an island via awakening it into their element or whatever. PH had its climate changed after a 10 day fight, it wasn't a simple flex of power.



Can Kaido even harm Jozu? Someone whose diamond defense is even higher than his own?

Reactions: Like 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 16, 2021)

VileNotice said:


> but I wouldn't say Jozu is, and Aokiji still needed a distraction to one-shot him while Kaido one-shot Luffy without one.


Wow, Luffy was yc2 when Kaido one shotted him, Aokiji never needed distractions just not to waste time
want proof? and according to jozu the vivre card
he has the best durability in the verse , so saying the admirals cant beat big meme/ or PTSD is ridiculous
Also it was Jozu who needed extra help to fight aokiji


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## VileNotice (Mar 16, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Don't you find it interesting that according to the majority the strongest individuals fall before weaker ones? In a shounen at that?


It happened already with Enel  

Keeps things interesting if all the strongest guys aren't saved for last.



TheWiggian said:


> Can Kaido even harm Jozu? Someone whose diamond defense is even higher than his own?


I'm assuming Jozu's not invincible to all advanced haki but Kaido has elemental attacks too, let's see what he does with them in his hybrid form. Tell Marco to call him over to Onigashima to demonstrate.


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## VileNotice (Mar 16, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Wow, Luffy was yc2 when Kaido one shotted him, Aokiji never needed distractions just not to waste time
> want proof? and according to jozu the vivre card
> he has the best durability in the verse , so saying the admirals cant beat big meme/ or PTSD is ridiculous
> Also it was Jozu who needed extra help to fight aokiji


Ice doesn't care about durability. Kaido and Big Mom have flames to help with that.

And yeah I know Aokiji >> Jozu, just not as much as a Yonko is.

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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 16, 2021)

VileNotice said:


> Ice doesn't care about durability. Kaido and Big Mom have flames to help with that.


He wasn't even using ice, it was his brute force punches do you not see bruises symbolizing damage, big mom is not gonna do anything to aokiji ice its called chilly chilly too and ace who is literal fire with his one of his best attacks can only stalemate aokijis lower-end attacks than plz big meme aint gonna do nothing


VileNotice said:


> much


Aokiji>Kaido


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## TheWiggian (Mar 16, 2021)

VileNotice said:


> It happened already with Enel
> Keeps things interesting if all the strongest guys aren't saved for last.



The only thing he had above others pre TS is logia invulnerabilty. He was weaker than everyone who came after him. Only match up advantage.



VileNotice said:


> I'm assuming Jozu's not invincible to all advanced haki but Kaido has elemental attacks too, let's see what he does with them in his hybrid form. Tell Marco to call him over to Onigashima to demonstrate.



Yeah that's the best you can do. Assume since you have no evidence. Everything points to him being way more durable than Kaido. Now you're trying to deflect from that fact.

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## VileNotice (Mar 16, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> He wasn't even using ice, it was his brute force punches do you not see bruises symbolizing damage, big mom is not gonna do anything to aokiji ice its called chilly chilly too and ace who is literal fire with his one of his best attacks can only stalemate aokijis lower-end attacks than plz big meme aint gonna do nothing


What do you expect, a low Yonko commander to no-diff an admiral just because he has a DF advantage? Big Mom is on Aokiji's level at worst (but more likely stronger) and has a DF advantage as a BONUS. Kuzan is not beating Mama, that Ace example proves it more than disproves it.

And now you claim Jozu can be hurt by brute force but only by someone like Aokiji rather than Kaido or Big Mom who have the best base physical feats in the series??





TheWiggian said:


> The only thing he had above others pre TS is logia invulnerabilty. He was weaker than everyone who came after him. Only match up advantage.


Oda directly compared him to the likes of Ace with his potential bounty. He was stronger than CP9.


TheWiggian said:


> Yeah that's the best you can do. Assume since you have no evidence. Everything points to him being way more durable than Kaido. Now you're trying to deflect from that fact.


Alright @TheWiggian, your turn to explain the bruises @GreenEggsAHam so graciously provided.

Reactions: Winner 3


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## Van Basten (Mar 16, 2021)

Akainu and healthy Aokiji.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sloan (Mar 16, 2021)

VileNotice said:


> I guess we're not really disagreeing. Marco is stronger than the average YC1 but I wouldn't say Jozu is, and Aokiji still needed a distraction to one-shot him while Kaido one-shot Luffy without one. To me BM's statement meant that she just needed her homies to beat him a reasonable amount of time when she was in a rush, but I guess that's up to interpretation.
> 
> I only think Yonko are a small step above admirals aside from Sakazuki. They aren't defeating them with less than a high diff fight. Admirals will be hyped when their time comes but so will the remaining Yonko in Blackbeard and Shanks.
> 
> I do generally think people overestimate how much of a force of nature a single admiral is in terms of instantly destroying an island via awakening it into their element or whatever. PH had its climate changed after a 10 day fight, it wasn't a simple flex of power.


Our stances are slightly different but close enough, I'm a bit more skeptical in the Yonkou>Admiral portrayal than you are.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 16, 2021)

VileNotice said:


> What do you expect, a low Yonko commander to no-diff an admiral just because he has a DF advantage? Big Mom is on Aokiji's level at worst (but more likely stronger) and has a DF advantage as a BONUS. Kuzan is not beating Mama, that Ace example proves it more than disproves it.


BIg Mom at best is on aokiji level who I have as the weakest admiral, Big mom has no DF advantage, Aokiji can go 9 days equal to a literal magma human


VileNotice said:


> And now you claim Jozu can be hurt by brute force but only by someone like Aokiji rather than Kaido or Big Mom who have the best base physical feats in the series??


Aokiji has way stronger Koka than meme/Hostage lol, kaido wont touch him at all or meme who cant make queen bleed with 3 attacks but chopper do it with 1

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## TheWiggian (Mar 16, 2021)

VileNotice said:


> Oda directly compared him to the likes of Ace with his potential bounty. He was stronger than CP9.



Not really Ace's bounty is higher. And bounty =//= strength. As i said he only had the logia invulnerability advantage. Give them a way to touch him like a seastone Wyper had access to and Enel gets throatshiganed or bisected by a rankyaku before he can even react. 



VileNotice said:


> Alright @TheWiggian, your turn to explain the bruises @GreenEggsAHam so graciously provided.



Bruises =//= one shotting:



			
				VileNotice said:
			
		

> *I wouldn't say Jozu is, and Aokiji still needed a distraction to one-shot him while Kaido one-shot Luffy without one.*



Why would i need to explain anything that got nothing to do with the point i brought up? Can Kaido one shot or even harm Jozu? The bruises happened off-panel and Jozu had some since he blocked Mihawk's slash so i got no idea where they exactly came from in the first place. All i know is Aokiji can one shot Jozu while there is no evidence Kaido can do the same.

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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 16, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Bruises


I never once said bruises=one shotting its just a sign of damage, but thanks

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## TheWiggian (Mar 16, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> I never once said bruises=one shotting its just a sign of damage, but thanks



Nah i said that based on the point i highlighted when quoting vile before.



gunchar said:


> Dafuq is even going on here, since when are the Admirals that overwanked?



Very insightful.

Reactions: Like 1


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## VileNotice (Mar 16, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Not really Ace's bounty is higher. And bounty =//= strength. As i said he only had the logia invulnerability advantage. Give them a way to touch him like a seastone Wyper had access to and Enel gets throatshiganed or bisected by a rankyaku before he can even react.


He has CoO to offset their speed somewhat and if he’s surviving a seastone reject dial to the heart, he’s not getting one-shot by those techniques. Lucci with seastone or haki can beat him, for the others I don’t see it. 

The thing is if Enel was weaker than everyone Luffy would fight next, there’s literally no reason to give Luffy complete immunity to his fruit, Oda could just have the rubber act as makeshift haki or a slight defense. He needed the full immunity too because Enel’s attack power was off the charts, it would one-shot someone like Kalifa or Blueno.

But whatever this argument is off-topic, I guess you don’t think it’s possible for weaker villains to go down earlier in shonen and I do.


TheWiggian said:


> Bruises =//= one shotting:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would i need to explain anything that got nothing to do with the point i brought up? Can Kaido one shot or even harm Jozu? The bruises happened off-panel and Jozu had some since he blocked Mihawk's slash so i got no idea where they exactly came from in the first place. All i know is Aokiji can one shot Jozu while there is no evidence Kaido can do the same.


Bruises just give me more reason to believe Kaido or BM can hurt him (though I already thought that they could) because it increases the probability of him being vulnerable to blunt attacks or having a limit to his diamond form. In any case Kuzan can’t one-shot Jozu without an opening, that is canon. In general Yonko have been shown to not need distractions to easily defeat YC level guys, obviously there’s no way to know exactly what would happen with Jozu since we haven’t seen them together, but I suspect he gets throttled. Now if you think Jozu is like Marco and above all other YCs we’ve seen in action, you’d have a point, I personally think he was no stronger than Luffy at the beginning of Wano, with his only confirmed invulnerability being to cutting or slashing attacks.


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## Kinjin (Mar 16, 2021)

VileNotice said:


> I guess we're not really disagreeing. Marco is stronger than the average YC1 but I wouldn't say Jozu is, and Aokiji still needed a distraction to one-shot him while Kaido one-shot Luffy without one. To me BM's statement meant that she just needed her homies to beat him a reasonable amount of time when she was in a rush, but I guess that's up to interpretation.


Never understood this claim that Admirals "needed" distraction to one-shot Yonko Commanders. Marco is a special case who can't be one-shotted by a top tier as proven by his clash with Big Mom. Jozu tackled Kuzan in chapter 567 and got defeated in 568. Not even a full chapter passed and we didn't see them physically clash in between so why should we assume that Kuzan absolutely can't one-shot him without a distraction? Jozu also let himself get distracted. No one used some tricks or told him to look away.

Not to mention that from a narrative standpoint it makes no sense for the Yonko Commanders to get one-shotted in the Marineford arc because the situation would have become hopeless quickly. I don't see anyone holding this argument against Kaido that he didn't one-shot Denjiro or Kinemon who got up and charged at him despite getting clubbed beforehand.



VileNotice said:


> I only think Yonko are a small step above admirals aside from Sakazuki. They aren't defeating them with less than a high diff fight. Admirals will be hyped when their time comes but so will the remaining Yonko in Blackbeard and Shanks.


This is why you assess their strength individually rather than stick to the premise that X is a Yonko therefore they're all > Admirals. Some Admirals are stronger than some Yonko, some Yonko are stronger than some Admirals. When Shanks potentially gets superior feats later down the line Big Mom and Kaido won't get scaled to him simply because they're Yonko.



VileNotice said:


> I do generally think people overestimate how much of a force of nature a single admiral is in terms of instantly destroying an island via awakening it into their element or whatever. PH had its climate changed after a 10 day fight, it wasn't a simple flex of power.


It took 10 days to *permanently* change the climate of the island. I don't see any reason to assume they can't destroy an island in an instant if they wanted to or temporarily change its climate.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## TheWiggian (Mar 16, 2021)

VileNotice said:


> *He has CoO to offset their speed* somewhat and if he’s surviving a seastone reject dial to the heart, he’s not getting one-shot by those techniques. Lucci with seastone or haki can beat him, for the others I don’t see it.



Helped him alot against EB Luffy who was way weaker than his EL version.



VileNotice said:


> The thing is if Enel was weaker than everyone Luffy would fight next, *there’s literally no reason to give Luffy complete immunity to his fruit,* Oda could just have the rubber act as makeshift haki or a slight defense. He needed the full immunity too because Enel’s attack power was off the charts, it would one-shot someone like Kalifa or Blueno.



Luffy had that immunity from the very first chapter. Oda could've easily applied other advantages like melting/burning his rubber. You could argue Oda gave Enel an inferior fruit to rubber for his defeat (since he obviously didn't took all physics into account) but arguing he gave Luffy the rubber fruit (like it happened in the last moment before they feced each other) is just dumb.



VileNotice said:


> But whatever this argument is off-topic, I guess you don’t think it’s possible for weaker villains to go down earlier in shonen and I do.
> 
> Bruises just give me more reason to believe Kaido or BM can hurt him (though I already thought that they could) because it increases the probability of him being vulnerable to blunt attacks or having a limit to his diamond form. In any case Kuzan can’t one-shot Jozu without an opening, that is canon. In general Yonko have been shown to not need distractions to easily defeat YC level guys, obviously there’s no way to know exactly what would happen with Jozu since we haven’t seen them together, but I suspect he gets throttled. Now if you think Jozu is like Marco and above all other YCs we’ve seen in action, you’d have a point, I personally think he was no stronger than Luffy at the beginning of Wano, with his only confirmed invulnerability being to cutting or slashing attacks.



The bruises can also just be dirt marks and Jozu was never hurt until Aokiji one shot him. Also Big Mom and Kaido hurting characters far below Jozu's diamond durability isn't proof they can do the same to him. And in fact that neither Kaido nor Big Mom can hurt each other no matter how hard they tried in the past:



Jozu is more durable than either of them. Shrugging off a massive WSS slash >>> being slashed by a mid tier move from Zoro.

There is zero evidence either Kaido or Big Mom can seriously harm Jozu unless they have some sort of hax up their sleeve which we know nothing about.

Taking his lifespan is the only option that comes to question, but i honestly doubt he would be afraid of her considering no one is except fodders.

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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 16, 2021)

VileNotice said:


> Kaido or BM can hurt him (though I already thought that they could) because it increases the probability of him being vulnerable to blunt attacks or having a limit to his diamond form. In any case Kuzan can’t one-shot Jozu without an opening, that is canon. In general Yonko have been shown to not need distractions to easily defeat YC level guys, obviously there’s no way to know exactly what would happen with Jozu since we haven’t seen them together, but I suspect he gets throttled. Now if you think Jozu is like Marco and above all other YCs we’ve seen in action, you’d have a point, I personally think he was no stronger than Luffy at the beginning of Wano, with his only confirmed invulnerability being to cutting or slashing attack


Naw, Jozu + Randoms vs Kuzan, you're comparing YC to try make a point for yonko>admiral when in reality admirals=yonkos, the yonkos might actually be a step below the admirals considering what the og 3 did at marineford against the strongest pirate who was a step above the other yonkos

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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 16, 2021)

Diamond is as hard as seastone, I dont see diamond is as hard as big mom skin, or kaidos scale
if you still think Kaido/Meme are durable than Diamond


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## VileNotice (Mar 16, 2021)

Question for the Jozu wankers: can Whitebeard, his own captain, even hope to lay a scratch on him? Sounds like he should have been the captain

Reactions: Funny 3


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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 16, 2021)

VileNotice said:


> Question for the Jozu wankers: can Whitebeard, his own captain, even hope to lay a scratch on him? Sounds like he should have been the captain


Comparing Shockwaves to blunt forces attacks from Laido
Get out!


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## VileNotice (Mar 16, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Comparing Shockwaves to blunt forces attacks from Laido
> Get out!


I see.



So Jozu is vulnerable to shockwaves but no other physical attacks, just so we're clear?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## TheWiggian (Mar 16, 2021)

VileNotice said:


> Question for the Jozu wankers: can Whitebeard, his own captain, even hope to lay a scratch on him? Sounds like he should have been the captain
> I see.





VileNotice said:


> So Jozu is vulnerable to shockwaves but no other physical attacks, just so we're clear?



I see you're desperate.

You lack the evidence to prove Kaido and Big Mom can hurt Jozu so you deflect by throwing in other characters. We know Jozu is more durable than either of them and we know they can't hurt each other which means they can't bypass an inferior durability threshold. 

Cheers

Reactions: Like 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## deltaniner (Mar 16, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> I see you're desperate.
> 
> You lack the evidence to prove Kaido and Big Mom can hurt Jozu so you deflect by throwing in other characters. We know Jozu is more durable than either of them and we know they can't hurt each other which means they can't bypass an inferior durability threshold.
> 
> Cheers


One word

Haki

Jozu's Haki is inarguably inferior to theirs.

Reactions: Like 1


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## VileNotice (Mar 16, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> I see you're desperate.
> 
> You lack the evidence to prove Kaido and Big Mom can hurt Jozu so you deflect by throwing in other characters. We know Jozu is more durable than either of them and we know they can't hurt each other which means they can't bypass an inferior durability threshold.
> 
> Cheers


Jozu can be hurt by any top tier, that is the obvious point you are ridiculously trying to circumvent. It's almost not worth engaging in, but here I am. Big Mom and Kaido not being able to hurt each other has no merit, they weren't in a serious fight to the death when they were fighting earlier in the arc, or at least it stopped being serious before they got very far into it.



TheWiggian said:


> Pretty sure the guy that stands at the very top of swordsmanship and CoA mastery should be able to deal with Diamond and Seastone durability.


This is the ONE character who has explicitly been shown not to be able to hurt Jozu. Just admit you're a Yonko hater and I'll have that drink with you

Reactions: Winner 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 16, 2021)

deltaniner said:


> Haki
> 
> Jozu's Haki is inarguably inferior to theirs.


Unless you're joking or if you actually think that, Mihawk haki is superior to both Kaido/Big Mom and still didn't do anything, Jozu arguably has better haki than Mom/Kaido since he used barrier Haki to withstand the force of Mihawk slash


VileNotice said:


> but


Is jozu immune to tilting seas? Getting sucked in by earthquakes? or rendering his df with tsuanmis idk im asking you


VileNotice said:


> Jozu can be hurt by any top tier, that is the obvious point you are ridiculously trying to circumvent. It's almost not worth engaging in, but here I am. Big Mom and Kaido not being able to hurt each other has no merit, they weren't in a serious fight to the death when they were fighting earlier in the arc, or at least it stopped being serious before they got very far into it.


They were serious they literally said "Im going to kill you"
Jozu cannot be hurt by every top tier some top tiers have haki that can bypass his defenses Meme/Kaid dont have that

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 16, 2021)

VileNotice said:


> This is the ONE character who has explicitly been shown not to be able to hurt Jozu. Just admit you're a Yonko hater and I'll have that drink with you


Mihawk is superior to Big mom whos kaido equal and Shanks btw, so if he cant do it than you know the yonkos cant do it

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## TheWiggian (Mar 16, 2021)

deltaniner said:


> One word
> 
> Haki
> 
> *Jozu's Haki is inarguably inferior to theirs.*



It's the other way around. Jozu actually has a feat of injuring a intangible top tier while they don't. They never damaged an exceptionally
durable or intangible character.



VileNotice said:


> Jozu can be hurt by any top tier, that is the obvious point you are ridiculously trying to circumvent. It's almost not worth engaging in, but here I am. Big Mom and Kaido not being able to hurt each other has no merit, they weren't in a serious fight to the death when they were fighting earlier in the arc, or at least it stopped being serious before they got very far into it.



Sure. They weren't seriously fighting to the point of their subordniates fearing for the safety of the island they were on.  

Unless you ofc believe they can go even higher than that and nuke the moon or some shit.



VileNotice said:


> This is the ONE character who has explicitly been shown not to be able to hurt Jozu. Just admit you're a Yonko hater and I'll have that drink with you



I would've if Mihawk wouldn't be known for his exceptional CoA and swordsmanship which neither Kaido or Big Mom have ever demonstrated.

Not only is he compareble to them in the strength department, his swordsmanship/technique shits on Big Mom's to say it mildly and his CoA that haven't been seen for centuries since Ryuum's death by far eclipses them. Not to mention that i said "should" which isn't an actual claim that he in fact can. But unlike Big Mom and Kaido the breath of diamond is an actually existing hint at in one piece since Alabasta. So Mihawk being capable of injuring Jozu has a massively higher chance to be true than either Kaido or Big Mom from all gathered hints and evidence on their abilities.

You miserably failed here my friend.

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## VileNotice (Mar 16, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Unless you're joking or if you actually think that, Mihawk haki is superior to both Kaido/Big Mom and still didn't do anything, Jozu arguably has better haki than Mom/Kaido since he used barrier Haki to withstand the force of Mihawk slash
> 
> Is jozu immune to tilting seas? Getting sucked in by earthquakes? or rendering his df with tsuanmis idk im asking you


Kaido could wrap him up in dragon form or Big Mom could plop him on Zeus and dunk him in the sea too, but I didn't think that counts..


GreenEggsAHam said:


> They were serious they literally said "Im going to kill you"
> Jozu cannot be hurt by every top tier some top tiers have haki that can bypass his defenses Meme/Kaid dont have that


They weren't serious for long considering they literally stopped fighting lol. Doesn't mean they can't hurt each other because they didn't hurt each other at the beginning of a fight where they were matching each other blow for blow.


GreenEggsAHam said:


> Mihawk is superior to Big mom whos kaido equal and Shanks btw, so if he cant do it than you know the yonkos cant do it


Well that just about makes Jozu the strongest physical fighter in the verse then doesn't it. Stronger than Mihawk, Kaido, Big Mom, and Garp all combined. Just not Whitebeard because shockwave.

Anyway you're in the minority here with thinking Mihawk can't hurt Jozu in any way, @TheWiggian thinks he can, and I actually agree that he would probably find a way to circumvent it with a closer ranged attack, possibly with internal destruction haki or just increased internal focus specifically based around cutting diamond.



TheWiggian said:


> It's the other way around. Jozu actually has a feat of injuring a intangible top tier while they don't. They never damaged an exceptionally
> durable or intangible character.


Kaido and Big Mom can hurt logia admirals, this is what happens when you don't understand portrayal. 


TheWiggian said:


> Sure. They weren't seriously fighting to the point of their subordniates fearing for the safety of the island they were on.
> 
> Unless you ofc believe they can go even higher than that and nuke the moon or some shit.


Them trading equal blows is going to shake an island because they're top tier. They don't even have to hit each other to accomplish that...


TheWiggian said:


> I would've if Mihawk wouldn't be known for his exceptional CoA and swordsmanship which neither Kaido or Big Mom have ever demonstrated.
> 
> Not only is he compareble to them in the strength department, his swordsmanship/technique shits on Big Mom's to say it mildly and his CoA that haven't been seen for centuries since Ryuum's death by far eclipses them. Not to mention that i said "should" which isn't an actual claim that he in fact can. But unlike Big Mom and Kaido the breath of diamond is an actually existing hint at in one piece since Alabasta.
> 
> You miserably failed here my friend.


Kaido and Big Mom are known for two of the most versatile fruits in the series, each harnessing multiple elements in conjunction with the strongest base strength seen in the series. That's half of why they're top tier, they can't be hard-countered outside of Oden PTSD or Mother Carmel's picture. Wtf is stopping Big Mom from electrifying Jozu and KOing him with a punch as soon as he's unable to put on his diamond defense? Assuming she can't just KO him with a blunt-force punch to begin with, which you never disproved. And then there's the fact her sword swings take the form of shockwaves and not slashes, and it seems we already agreed that Whitebeard can hurt Jozu via shockwaves.

You're smart enough to recognize Mihawk gets hard-countered by Jozu but he's a top tier so he pulls deep into his pocket to defeat Jozu, a high tier, another way. Big Mom and Kaido's pockets are far deeper and more plentiful, and actually have the hype of being the world's strongest creature and his nigh equal.

Anyway you win this round just because you got me flustered just to prove one of the most exceedingly obvious things in the manga, so good job

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 16, 2021)

VileNotice said:


> Kaido could wrap him up in dragon form or Big Mom could plop him on Zeus and dunk him in the sea too, but I didn't think that counts..


Nice headcannon no justu ... Big mom only got bruises from zeus so its not gonna do anything to jozu, kaido wrap him up? are you just making up movesets Oda? he has never showed that


VileNotice said:


> Them trading equal blows is going to shake an island because they're top tier. They don't even have to hit each other to accomplish that...


go read 951 when they obviously state they were gonna kill each other

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## TheWiggian (Mar 16, 2021)

VileNotice said:


> Kaido and Big Mom can hurt logia admirals, this is what happens when you don't understand portrayal.



By scaling they should be able to hurt an intangible admiral with a distraction, same way WB was able to. Anything else is fanfic.



VileNotice said:


> Them trading equal blows is going to shake an island because they're top tier. They don't even have to hit each other to accomplish that...



Why do they trade those blows? Could it be that they're trying to hit/hurt the other?



VileNotice said:


> Kaido and Big Mom are known for two of the most versatile fruits in the series, each harnessing multiple elements in conjunction with the strongest base strength seen in the series. That's half of why they're top tier, they can't be hard-countered outside of Oden PTSD or Mother Carmel's picture. *Wtf is stopping Big Mom from electrifying Jozu and KOing him with a punch as soon as he's unable to put on his diamond defense? *



The same thing that stops her from doing the same to Killer and Zoro. Her electric damage barely has any effect on them and it won't be different in Jozu's case. KO'ing him with a punch because he's unable to put on his diamond defense?  

I thought you knew how portryal works. Aokiji couldn't do it without a distraction right? Why should she be able to do it?



VileNotice said:


> *Assuming she can't just KO him with a blunt-force punch to begin with*, which you never disproved. And then there's the fact her sword swings take the form of shockwaves and not slashes, and it seems we already agreed that Whitebeard can hurt Jozu via shockwaves.



Can she though? Jozu isn't Queen, he's never been shown to be harmed in the series until a flash freeze hax attack caught him. Unless you believe there were no individuals at MF who could actually injure him and Big Mom by far outclasses everyone he faced there. Fine by me, just don't claim you know how portrayal works then. 





VileNotice said:


> You're smart enough to recognize Mihawk gets hard-countered by Jozu but he's a top tier so he pulls deep into his pocket to defeat Jozu, a high tier, another way. Big Mom and Kaido's pockets are far deeper and more plentiful, and actually have the hype of being the world's strongest creature and his nigh equal.



Yes big Mom and Kaido are like 8 metres tall while Mihawk about 2, ofc their pockets will be deeper and have a higher volume. 

So Mihawk as the WSS is not even compareable to the "so called" WSC and his nigh equal, because obviously a fraudulent title gives them more leverage than a truthful one.

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## VileNotice (Mar 16, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> By scaling they should be able to hurt an intangible admiral with a distraction, same way WB was able to. Anything else is fanfic.


WB was weaker than the other Yonko by the time he was in the fray at MF.


TheWiggian said:


> Why do they trade those blows? Could it be that they're trying to hit/hurt the other?


Idk if you’ve watched anime sword fights before but equal characters spend a lot of time guarding each other’s attacks. We don’t know how long it would take for Kaido or BM to tire each other out enough to hurt each other, but we know Aokiji got his leg cut off by Akainu eventually.


TheWiggian said:


> The same thing that stops her from doing the same to Killer and Zoro. Her electric damage barely has any effect on them and it won't be different in Jozu's case. KO'ing him with a punch because he's unable to put on his diamond defense?


Yep. And attributing feats against plot-shielded SHs and their allies can only get you so far, unless you want to explain how Kizaru didn’t KO Luffy with his kick in MF when Kaido KOd a version 100 times stronger.


TheWiggian said:


> I thought you knew how portryal works. Aokiji couldn't do it without a distraction right? Why should she be able to do it?


Because she’s stronger than Aokiji, don’t you remember what I’m arguing?


TheWiggian said:


> Can she though? Jozu isn't Queen, he's never been shown to be harmed in the series until a flash freeze hax attack caught him. Unless you believe there were no individuals at MF who could actually injure him and Big Mom by far outclasses everyone he faced there. Fine by me, just don't claim you know how portrayal works then.


Every top tier at MF could injure him. Whether he got bruises from one of them or someone weaker I can’t say.


TheWiggian said:


> Yes big Mom and Kaido are like 8 metres tall while Mihawk about 2, ofc their pockets will be deeper and have a higher volume.
> 
> So Mihawk as the WSS is not even compareable to the "so called" WSC and his nigh equal, because obviously a fraudulent title gives them more leverage than a truthful one.


Gotta prove Mihawk is stronger than Shanks before you can be so sure his title isn’t fraudulent.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## TheWiggian (Mar 16, 2021)

VileNotice said:


> WB was weaker than the other Yonko by the time he was in the fray at MF.



Even if you believe that, considering he was called the WSM and still extremely powerful even with half his face gone, he would still be compareable to them.



VileNotice said:


> Idk if you’ve watched anime sword fights before but equal characters spend a lot of time guarding each other’s attacks. We don’t know how long it would take for Kaido or BM to tire each other out enough to hurt each other, but we know Aokiji got his leg cut off by Akainu eventually.



They guard each other?



VileNotice said:


> Yep. And attributing feats against plot-shielded SHs and their allies can only get you so far, unless you want to explain how Kizaru didn’t KO Luffy with his kick in MF when Kaido KOd a version 100 times stronger.



So 1 is plot but Kaido sending Luffy to Udon isn't? Gotcha champ  



VileNotice said:


> Because she’s stronger than Aokiji, don’t you remember what I’m arguing?



Sakazuki being alongside yonks after Aokiji giving him extreme diff, yet for some reason Big Mom is high diffing him because of promotheus, a clown that been embarrassed by W3, mid trio members and actually inferior to Sakazuki's magma that burns even fire, who Aokiji was capable of stalemating for 10 days. This results in Big Mom electrifying Jozu (which been shown to do nothing to Killer and Zoro) and KOing him with a single punch as soon as he can't put up his defense (which never happened btw) while Aokiji needed a distraction to win with hax (since it was the only vulnerability of Jozu).

Nice story bro, straight out of a bubble world unicorn's ass.


Jozu only been shown to get seriously damaged by hax that can ignore his insane durability, which neither Kaido nor Big Mom have feats of bypassing.



VileNotice said:


> Every top tier at MF could injure him. Whether he got bruises from one of them or someone weaker I can’t say.



So you have no evidence after all?



VileNotice said:


> Gotta prove Mihawk is stronger than Shanks before you can be so sure his title isn’t fraudulent.



I don't since he is the guy with an actual title while Kaido is just rumoured to be one.

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## VileNotice (Mar 16, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Even if you believe that, considering he was called the WSM and still extremely powerful even with half his face gone, he would still be compareable to them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I’m glad you’re seeing the light, my friend. 

Though idk why you think Akainu needs a DF advantage to extreme diff Aokiji, that’s odd.



TheWiggian said:


> Jozu only been shown to get seriously damaged by hax that can ignore his insane durability, which neither Kaido nor Big Mom have feats of bypassing.


What Jozu did in MF:
- blocked the “world’s strongest slash,” which we both dispute as actually the world’s strongest because we think Mihawk can actually damage him 
- hit Crocodile at some point, did not KO him
- got parasited by Doffy at some point, did not escape on his own
- gave Aokiji a bloody lip when he was off guard
- got scuffed up and bruised at some point
- got one shot by Aokiji when he was distracted, complete with his arm falling off

Your dude is not that impressive at the end of the day, we have the evidence right there he was taking non-ice damage, even if it was minuscule, before getting one-shot. What’s your hypothesis, does he have a diamond limit or is he vulnerable to blunt damage?

The thing is it doesn’t matter, every top tier sees those bruises and gives it to him times a thousand and he loses. And even if he didn’t have bruises, he’d lose because what top tiers do in OP is they defeat non-top tiers one on one. 


TheWiggian said:


> So you have no evidence after all?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't since he is the guy with an actual title while Kaido is just rumoured to be one.


It’s as actual as Whitebeard still being the World’s Strongest Man as he stood there dying.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## TheWiggian (Mar 16, 2021)

VileNotice said:


> I’m glad you’re seeing the light, my friend.
> 
> Though idk why you think Akainu needs a DF advantage to extreme diff Aokiji, that’s odd.



Iam not the one who believes in a elemental advantage between Aokiji and Akainu just as i don't believe there is one between mera/prometheus and Aokiji. My point is that if you believe that which you obviously do:

_Aokiji could be extreme diff for BM if Prometheus didn’t partially counter him (not only offensively but more importantly defensively), that makes it high diff for BM for me._

It actually reinforces my point since something superior to that fire (which apparently counters Aokiji) didn't give Sakazuki any advantage.



VileNotice said:


> What Jozu did in MF:
> - blocked the “world’s strongest slash,” which we both dispute as actually the world’s strongest because we think Mihawk can actually damage him
> - hit Crocodile at some point, did not KO him
> - got parasited by Doffy at some point, did not escape on his own
> ...



He is more impressive in terms of durability than Kaido and Big Mom though. That's all i need.



VileNotice said:


> The thing is it doesn’t matter, *every top tier sees those bruises and gives it to him times a thousand and he loses.* And even if he didn’t have bruises, he’d lose because what top tiers do in OP is they defeat non-top tiers one on one.



Just like Big Mom, Kizaru, Akainu did to Marco?  

Jozu's durability with the diamond defense is simply higher than Kaido's and Big Mom's that's all iam arguing here and you seem to have nothing to disprove that.

The bruises could simply be dirt marks, multiple characters have throughout the story without even taking damage from someone. There's even less to go by considering it was off-panel.



VileNotice said:


> It’s as actual as Whitebeard still being the World’s Strongest Man as he stood there dying.



So you agree that WB's WSM title was void when he was standing, talking to Teach with 2 massive holes, half his face and hundreds of other wounds is as legit as Kaido's WSC hype. Sounds legit, you seem to make progress.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Jo Ndule (Mar 16, 2021)

Stop mentioning Marco
He was chooed for over 10 panels or 2 pages
He didn't free himself 
Linlij was never stopped by Marco!

"Marco choked Queen and king" yeah for 2 seconds in 1 on 2 panels
Last chapter he did a sneak grab on Queen's neck.
He keeps sneak attacking Queen anyway.

Linlin>any admiral or marine.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Mihawk (Mar 16, 2021)

Jo Ndule said:


> Stop mentioning Marco



Marco

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## Red Admiral (Apr 1, 2021)

lol .... people are day dreaming about Akainu beating a Yonko like Big Mom is funny


Big Mom get troll around a lot but when she is all out she is next level and a god like monster ....


Akainu lose

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Yumi Zoro (Apr 1, 2021)

Red Admiral said:


> lol .... people are day dreaming about Akainu beating a Yonko like Big Mom is funny
> 
> 
> Big Mom get troll around a lot but when she is all out she is next level and a god like monster ....
> ...



Have you hear?

Akainu is Yonko level according to Oda.

So being one of the future antagonist of the serie, he negg BM with a Meigu according to feat and protrayal.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TheWiggian (Apr 1, 2021)

Mikasa said:


> Have you hear?
> 
> Akainu is Yonko level according to Oda.
> 
> So being one of the future antagonist of the serie, he negg BM with a Meigu according to feat and protrayal.



We don't need confirmation from Oda to know that each one of them burries her.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Apr 1, 2021)

Red Admiral said:


> Big Mom get troll around a lot but when she is all out she is next level and a god like monster ....


She cant even hit akainu since hes a logia she'll have to rely on napoelean and you seen how useless she is with her homies in *that chapter*


Mikasa said:


> Akainu is Yonko level according to Oda.


Hes pirate King Level that was a april fools

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Captain Altintop (Apr 1, 2021)

C3 level is needed to beat or stalemate BM.

Kizaru/Aokiji extreme (mid-high) diffs her while Akainu can beat her extreme (low) diffiulty. 

Fujitora is losing extreme (mid) difficulty against Big Mum.


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## Dunno (Apr 1, 2021)

At this point, all of them probably mid diff her to be honest.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Apr 1, 2021)

Captain Altintop said:


> Fujitora is losing extreme (mid) difficulty against Big Mum.


???Fujitora is way to fast for big meme
maybe Kaido can't keep up but lets see his hybrid speed


Dunno said:


> At this point, all of them probably mid diffs her to be honest.


Big meme=Kaido lets goo admirals getting hyped without even moving an inch for about 6 years


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## JustSumGuy (Apr 1, 2021)

Ew at people thinking Akainu will be weaker than Big Mom.

Kaido or Shanks I could at least understand but Big Mom is a gag character half the time.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sloan (Apr 1, 2021)

JustSumGuy said:


> Ew at people thinking Akainu will be weaker than Big Mom.
> 
> Kaido or Shanks I could at least understand but Big Mom is a gag character half the time.


Akainu will be in the top 5 strongest characters EoS imo.

However he's still liable to be portrayed questionably. 

Watch Luffy run out of G4 against him and start tanking Magma Fists in base.  Same as versus Hybrid Kaidou and Block Mochi against Katakuri.  Or Chopper with Guard point blocking his Meigou or smth.

The best way to conserve all portrayal as a villain is to fight people that aren't Main characters, or to get off-paneled(Revo's Vs Fuji/Greenbull for example).

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## JustSumGuy (Apr 1, 2021)

Sloan said:


> Akainu will be in the top 5 strongest characters EoS imo.
> 
> However he's still liable to be portrayed questionably.
> 
> ...


Yeah I agree in the sense that Luffy has to win so some shenanigans have to happen. the beginning of this arc Kaido oneshot Luffy in base and how he’s in his hybrid form and isn’t dealing with Luffy as easily.

And make no mistake, Kaido will hit Luffy with his strongest attack and Luffy will get up from it because what makes sense in terms of powerscaling takes a back seat to story.

It’s funny how no one doubts how strong BB will be when the time comes because he’s a “main villain” but I’d argue Akainu is just as an important antagonist as he is. If you don’t think so check the main character’s chest and get back to me.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## ShadoLord (Apr 1, 2021)

Akainu has so much hype that he CAN end Big Meme with just mid-diff. 

Akainu meigou half her brains while getting a couple of punches taken and proceeds to shrug that weak shit off. Then another meigou to claim her life. Mid-diff since Akainu is using meigou.

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## trance (Apr 1, 2021)

Sloan said:


> Akainu will be in the top 5 strongest characters EoS imo.
> 
> However he's still liable to be portrayed questionably.
> 
> ...



being real here

i dont care if luffy oneshots him

he needs to fall to luffy's hand

this """its only proper if sabo defeats him and avenges ace""" tinfoiling is a plague that goes against what akainu has been established as; the biggest opposer of *pirates* and luffy's most personal foe only arguably surpassed by teach in that regard

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sloan (Apr 1, 2021)

trance said:


> being real here
> 
> i dont care if luffy oneshots him
> 
> ...


I don't care about Sabo defeating Akainu.  

My thoughts on Akainu:



Sloan said:


> I think it's possible Akainu actually turns on the WG/Gorosai.  His motto being "Absolute Justice", he wouldn't be above over-stepping and even killing the Gorosai if it meant that his belief system and theirs are conflicting with each other.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe he'll fight and or defeat Imu and the Gorosai along with Luffy.


Akainu will have more depth and characterization imo.  He won't just be the "Defeat him because he killed Ace and he's the Fleet Admiral".  He'll be taking Justice into his own hands at some point, he won't be continuing to take orders from the Gorosai, and ultimately Imu later on.

Reactions: Like 1


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## trance (Apr 1, 2021)

Sloan said:


> I don't care about Sabo defeating Akainu



i know

i wasn't accusing you of having that mindset

that was just me going on a tangent outta nowhere

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sloan (Apr 1, 2021)

trance said:


> i know
> 
> i wasn't accusing you of having that mindset
> 
> that was just me going on a tangent outta nowhere


I think Akainu and Blackbeard are going to take a minor back seat to Imu, as Luffy's ultimate foe.  It's basically guaranteed.   

Gonna be some Kaguya sh*t.

I wouldn't mind if Blackbeard, Akainu and Luffy team up temporarily to take out Imu and than figh after wards.  I'd rather keep either Akainu or Blackbeard as the last fight.

Reactions: Like 1


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## CaptainCommander (Apr 1, 2021)

Akainu is the only one with the feats and hype to maybe pull it off.

The rest are grunts.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## Mihawk (Apr 1, 2021)

I’m flabbergasted by the poll showing the majority don’t think any of the admirals can beat Big Mom.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sloan (Apr 1, 2021)

Doflamingo said:


> I’m flabbergasted by the poll showing the majority don’t think any of the admirals can beat Big Mom.


I haven’t voted.  Maybe there is more.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Daddy Masterson (Apr 2, 2021)

I know Big Mom is supposed to be a legend, but I just can't take her that seriously. She gets fucking dunked on by Oda nearly every time she appears in the manga. I voted for the C3 to beat her, would be extreme diff tho.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Lord Melkor (Apr 2, 2021)

I think it depends if they fight near water as i can see for example Kizaru drowning her but not outlasting her tankiness.
Though Akainu gets benefit of the doubt from me at this point.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ClannadFan (Apr 2, 2021)

I originally thought only C3. But her rooftop showing has made it become any admiral.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Mihawk (Apr 2, 2021)

Akainu can probably beat any of them right now except maybe Kaido and Shanks, whom I think can go either way.

Aokiji should be able to do the same, maybe a little worst.

Only reason I’m not confident applying the same to Kizaru, isn’t because I think he’s weaker than Aokiji, but just that he didn’t even feel that motivated in fighting Rayleigh, citing how he had casual intentions when getting to Sabaody. If that’s the mindset he brings to every fight, he’d most assuredly take an L against the Emperors. But I’m giving him the benefit of a doubt since he’s rarely been scratched even. Therefore, a fully motivated Kizaru vs a Yonko would be a fight I’d pay to see.

Doubt the New Admirals could solo a Yonko, but I could be wrong. Fujitora vs Big Mom is probably gonna be a close one.

Reactions: Like 1


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## nmwn93 (Apr 3, 2021)

akainu. kizaru. kuzan. fuji is hard to call cant callgreen bull yet. i think the admirals can solo any one yonko in a fair one on one fight tho. so im biased but i can also see bm beating them too so its really dependent, tho i take any admiral for now but its ggonna be extremmme diff.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## nmwn93 (Apr 3, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> I originally thought only C3. But her rooftop showing has made it become any admiral.


Her rooftop showing? im curious as to where you place kiado them because shes been so much more impressive than him on the roof imo



Duhul10 said:


> None of them. The BM pirates would've been history if the contrary was true. 2 admirals would have completely annihilated her entire empire.


taking down a yonko would be dreadful to the power balance tho so why would they do that? even if they could.  also bm seems like she stays in her own island most the time. and to go fight her there is almost death wish. then  you have to take in her whole crew into account. in a straight 1 v 1. kizaru would likely be the best match up as he seemed rather confident that he could deal with what was happening on wano... himself.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## ClannadFan (Apr 3, 2021)

nmwn93 said:


> Her rooftop showing? im curious as to where you place kiado them because shes been so much more impressive than him on the roof imo


They're basically the same imo. Both have had pretty bad showings on the rooftop. If I had to give someone the edge, I'd go with Laido. Simply because he doesn't get meme'd as often or as badly.


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## nmwn93 (Apr 3, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> They're basically the same imo. Both have had pretty bad showings on the rooftop. If I had to give someone the edge, I'd go with Laido. Simply because he doesn't get meme'd as often or as badly.


guess its all in how you see things, her built in gags are what they are. tho she has had much better showings than kaido on that roof man . you don't have to care for her or kaido but bm hasnt bled yet. shes landed more hits on the upstarts than kaido and she isnt even trying. which is obvious. i just don't see the massive L she's taken i guess


Lets not act like bm or kaido are serious. that said kaido seems more serious than she is and lets not act like the super nova are really "winning" momentary sparks do not equal feats/ a non serious combo almost killed every body on that roof.  ...


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## GreenEggsAHam (Apr 3, 2021)

Doflamingo said:


> could


new admirals could totally win, shanks magazine says he can fight equally with them


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## Captain Altintop (Apr 3, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> new admirals could totally win,* shanks magazine *says he can fight equally with them


Can you explain what "Shanks Magazine" might be ? It sounds like his own newspaper

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Apr 3, 2021)

Captain Altintop said:


> his





Captain Altintop said:


> own


LOL my bad, it says he can fight equally on the admiral rank It was made post-skip

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Captain Altintop (Apr 3, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> LOL my bad, it says he can fight equally on the admiral rank It was made post-skip


Can you post the link here? I am curious about this magazine. I googled for it longer than 30 minutes but i never found anything.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Apr 3, 2021)

Captain Altintop said:


> minutes


It actually translated to "may" or "might" have the highest bounty


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## Captain Altintop (Apr 3, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> It actually translated to "may" or "might" have the highest bounty


The statement below Shanks is really weird. Obviously any Yonko can match an Admiiral and otherwise with small gaps. 

It's like you say "Gordon Ramsay is good enough to cook top class meals" ... He's a Kitchen Yonko .... it should be obvious.

And "his bounty is the one highest" didn't occur ... In terms of strength, I put him still 0.2-0.3% above Kaido/Akainu and 0.6-0.7% above BM. My guts telling me I could be correct, Shanks will deliver.

All solid extreme diff fights.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Apr 3, 2021)

Captain Altintop said:


> And "his bounty is the one highest" didn't occur


 its real translation said he "may" "might" have the highest bounty


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## Mihawk (Apr 4, 2021)

Shanks > any of the Admirals except Akainu.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## nmwn93 (Apr 4, 2021)

lets


Captain Altintop said:


> The statement below Shanks is really weird. Obviously any Yonko can match an Admiiral and otherwise with small gaps.
> 
> It's like you say "Gordon Ramsay is good enough to cook top class meals" ... He's a Kitchen Yonko .... it should be obvious.
> 
> ...


OR MAYYYYBE its not as "obvious" as this forum thinks and perhaps we ? (y'all) have underestimated the admirals....

Reactions: Like 1


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## A Optimistic (Apr 4, 2021)

Doflamingo said:


> Shanks > any of the Admirals including Akainu.



Fixed.


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## trance (Apr 4, 2021)

man

ava's transformed into a yonkostan

go figure

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheWiggian (Apr 4, 2021)

trance said:


> man
> 
> ava's transformed into a yonkostan
> 
> go figure



He will be an admiral Stan once the yonks are down. Final War Ava will be one of the main Admiral supporters again.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Apr 4, 2021)

Doflamingo said:


> except


I see wanking shanks to wank mihawk to be top 1


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## Mihawk (Apr 4, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> I see wanking shanks to wank mihawk to be top 1


Yes my good sir   

But I don't think Mihawk is number 1. Personally, I got Imu or Dragon at the top, although the Revos have been disappointing. 

Akainu, Shanks, Mihawk are in my top 4, with Kaido and probably Aokiji right up there with em.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Bernkastel (Apr 4, 2021)

Gravity seems to be her worst enemy so it should be a cakewalk for Issho

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Etherborn (Apr 4, 2021)

Akainu and Kizaru win by virtue of their sheer lethality and the fact that they can completely ignore her homies.

Aokiji loses due to Prometheus being a really good counter to his ice. If he can't neutralize Prometheus, and there's a chance it can just thaw out of his ice due to not having a corporeal body, then he's not putting down Big Mom with his base stats and Haki alone. 

Fujitora can win if and only if he neutralizes her homies with his DF and manages to dump her ass into the sea. Which is definitely possible with his gravity powers, but it's his only shot since he's not brute forcing her into submission. 

I haven't seen anything from Greenbull, so I can't call that matchup.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Apr 4, 2021)

I can't see anyone in the yonko/admiral sphere seriously losing to BM
 Lmao.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Apr 4, 2021)

She tanks everything any of the Admirals throw out at her. Akainu got put down by WB Quakes so Elbaf Spears will work. Eventually Big Mom does enough damage to put any of them down.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Apr 4, 2021)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> Akainu got put down by WB Quakes so Elbaf Spears will work. Eventually Big Mom does enough damage to put any of them down.



But he didn't though...

Also Elbaf spear = WB Rage quakes is just unfounded speculation.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 4, 2021)

C3 for sure


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## A Optimistic (Apr 4, 2021)

trance said:


> man
> 
> ava's transformed into a yonkostan
> 
> go figure



how did u reach this conclusion

im only team swordsmen at this point because wano has proven that swordsmen >>>>>>>>> everyone else

mihawk, shanks, zoro are cutting down everyone whether they are yonko or admiral


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## trance (Apr 4, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> how did u reach this conclusion
> 
> im only team swordsmen at this point because wano has proven that swordsmen >>>>>>>>> everyone else
> 
> mihawk, shanks, zoro are cutting down everyone whether they are yonko or admiral



oh so now you have a thing for guys who know how to handle a sword?


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## A Optimistic (Apr 4, 2021)

trance said:


> oh so now you have a thing for guys who know how to handle a sword?



i dont know how u read my posts this week and concluded somehow im anything but a sword boy

its kinda hard to read wano and not conclude they are the strongest, oda has wanked them too hard

Please dont call me a yonko stan because i dont like kaido or big mom

Reactions: Lewd 1


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