# Nagato Vs Hashi!



## Trojan (Apr 20, 2013)

Restrictions: None
Location: Gaara Vs Kimmimaro  
Knowledge: none
SOM: IC
Distance: 50 M

Nagato is mobile 

Note:- Since we know that Nagato's jutsus are stronger than Pain's 
for the purpose of this thread, assume that Nagato's jutsus are 2 times stronger at least.


----------



## Trojan (Apr 20, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Hashirama shows Nagato what an actual shinobi god looks like.




Well, saying that doesn't help anyone really! 
May you push yourself a little to explain?


----------



## Trojan (Apr 20, 2013)

Komnenos said:


> Hashirama makes Nagato his bitch.



By what? 

Do I really need to ask this question for everyone? 
That's sad.


----------



## Sans (Apr 20, 2013)

Make an Itachi vs Part I Sasuke thread, and you'll get the same responses.

Same reasoning applies to the responses here.


----------



## Sans (Apr 20, 2013)

Although if you must know, Hashirama will use Mokuton to make Nagato his bitch.


----------



## Trojan (Apr 20, 2013)

Komnenos said:


> Although if you must know, Hashirama will use Mokuton to make Nagato his bitch.



Wood = Ninjutsu 
Preta >>>> Ninjutsu


----------



## Sans (Apr 20, 2013)

Mokuton is a ninjutsu, but Hashirama creates more than a typical ninjutsu with it. Mokuton creates life and has a physical element to it as well.

Preta won't work on it anymore than it would on the Kyuubi.


----------



## ueharakk (Apr 20, 2013)

Nagato turns into stone if he absorbs Flower tree world or anything larger than that powered by sennin chakra.


----------



## Trojan (Apr 20, 2013)

Komnenos said:


> Mokuton is a ninjutsu, but Hashirama creates more than a typical ninjutsu with it. Mokuton creates life and has a physical element to it as well.
> 
> Preta won't work on it anymore than it would on the Kyuubi.



Change nothing honey.  He can adsorb the chakra inside it. 

Preta absorbed the chakra from Naruto and he's a human. Madara absorbed the chakra
from Gaara's sand. The sand can't be absorbed as we see, but the chakra inside can be absorbed.


----------



## Trojan (Apr 20, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> Nagato turns into stone if he absorbs Flower tree world or anything larger than that powered by sennin chakra.



You know the jutsu with Sage mode is his Buddha, don't you? 

Furthermore, he doesn't need to do that only he can use
(1)

need to remind you that, this has been done by this Nagato


and by one of his path? (Which make it even weaker)

What about him using it by himself and complete health? 

and I fail to see what Hashi can do against
BT + human path? Or CT by Nagato himself?


----------



## Trojan (Apr 20, 2013)

Komnenos said:


> Okay bro.
> 
> You can sit here thinking that Nagato wins.
> 
> ...



Such a great proof. 

O.K then, I might see someone else has greater Evidence. 

Thanks


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Apr 20, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> Change nothing honey.  He can adsorb the chakra inside it.
> 
> Preta absorbed the chakra from Naruto and he's a human. Madara absorbed the chakra
> from Gaara's sand. The sand can't be absorbed as we see, but the chakra inside can be absorbed.



Preta had to put Naruto in a hold in order to drain him.

And Preta can obly absorb what's inside his sphere.  The mokuton grows from Hashi outward.  So Nagato abosrbs the chakra from the one foot of tree around him, and then gets it driven through him when it keeps plowing into him.  

He can ST it back, but then it just keeps coming because it has a forest behind it.




> Well, saying that doesn't help anyone really!
> May you push yourself a little to explain?



Flower world oneshots him.

The forest of Mokuton oneshots him.

Nagato absorbs Sage Energy and turns to stone.

He's just 50 tiers better than Nagato.  Nagato was supposed to be impressive with his power to use a village busting Cho Shinra Tensei, or summon the Gedo.  But Hashirama casually grows a village sized forest with each jutsu, and his Buddha makes the Gedo look like an ant.  Then rather than make Hashirama cough blood and shorten his life to pull off, we see he does these jutsu casually.  He just evidently operates at a higher level, in the same way Madara operates on a higher plane than the 5 kage.


----------



## Shinobi no Kami (Apr 20, 2013)

there isnt anything to debate about. nagato deosnt even operate on hashiramas scale. he has a whopping, 1 large scale technique. hashirama pretty much takes this effortlessly.


----------



## ueharakk (Apr 20, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> You know the jutsu with Sage mode is his Buddha, don't you?
> 
> Furthermore, he doesn't need to do that only he can use
> (1)
> ...


That laser explosion would be a spec compared to the FTW that base hashirama can produce, in SM his FTW will be on a whole different scale or level of durability.  Scale the laser explosion up to a healthy nagato and it merely becomes a bigger spec, Nagato ends up getting put to sleep or killed by the giant roots.  He'd have to escape via flight or levatation in order to do so and then change the location of the fight since the battlefield is not covered in sleeping powder.




TorJaN said:


> and I fail to see what Hashi can do against
> BT + human path? Or CT by Nagato himself?


BT + human path?  Hashirama just creates a mokuton contruct that grabs himself or turns his arm into wood and grabs onto something like Yamato does.

CT is easily busted by Mokuton buddah.  the collective damage from the punches that PS got hit with were doing destruction roughly equivalent to at least 11 bijuudamas.


----------



## Sans (Apr 20, 2013)

TorJan, Nagato can match Hashirama for sheer scale, yes. However while Hashirama does jutsu in that tier as a casual, normal part of his arsenal, they represent the absolute edge of Nagato's capabilities.

They are so obviously in different tiers, this thread is somewhat mind-boggling.


----------



## Trojan (Apr 20, 2013)

> [=The Pirate on Wheels;46985088]Preta had to put Naruto in a hold in order to drain him.
> 
> And Preta can obly absorb what's inside his sphere.  The mokuton grows from Hashi outward.  So Nagato abosrbs the chakra from the one foot of tree around him, and then gets it driven through him when it keeps plowing into him.
> 
> He can ST it back, but then it just keeps coming because it has a forest behind it.



- So? he can do that to hashi. 
- Well, that what does matter though.  + wood without chakra won't be dangerous. 

- He can use BT on Hashi directly and that's will end, or CT to send Hashi and his wood
to the nexxt moon. 


> Flower world oneshots him.



Pretty sure that Nagato has something like this


I wonder if there are some trees in the sky. 


> The forest of Mokuton oneshots him.


Nay, St, CT, GM, Asura laser all are more than enough. 


> Nagato absorbs Sage Energy and turns to stone.



He doesn't need to absorb his Buddha CT should make the trick and some GM perhaps. 
or BT Hashi from the Buddha's head. 


> He's just 50 tiers better than Nagato.  Nagato was supposed to be impressive with his power to use a village busting Cho Shinra Tensei, or summon the Gedo.  But Hashirama casually grows a village sized forest with each jutsu, and his Buddha makes the Gedo look like an ant.  Then rather than make Hashirama cough blood and shorten his life to pull off, we see he does these jutsu casually.  He just evidently operates at a higher level, in the same way Madara operates on a higher plane than the 5 kage.



Madara's susanoo looked like an ant, yet it was more than enough.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Apr 20, 2013)

> and I fail to see what Hashi can do against
> BT + human path? Or CT by Nagato himself?



Hashi murders him by clasping his hands and making a forest eat him while he's being pulled in.  Assuming it's not a mokubunshin.

CT gets smashed or crushed by a mokuton fist, and possibly used as a rasengan against Nagato the same way he grabbed a bijuudama and slammed it into the Kyuubi.  Even if it got stupid huge because it was deemed too cool to watch suck up things to casually break, Hashirama has earth meld/mokuton meld, and can just retreat into the earth - probably the center, for a defence.  He can even leave another clone up there so Nagato thinks he died and ends the jutsu.

CST just gets tanked.  Hashirama and Tsunade share the same total regeneration jutsu, and Hashirama has Sage Mode which means the more he heals himself the more chakra he gets, which is funny because he never gets hit or hurt anyway, and he has more defence than any ninja in the history of ever with his mokuton, as well as a full Senju STRONG BODY of Rikkudo sennin's STRONG BODY son.

Going back to BT, it is just the most poorly designed jutsu since Izanami.  It leaves you so open to counter it's ridiculous.


----------



## Trojan (Apr 20, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> That laser explosion would be a spec compared to the FTW that base hashirama can produce, in SM his FTW will be on a whole different scale or level of durability.  Scale the laser explosion up to a healthy nagato and it merely becomes a bigger spec, Nagato ends up getting put to sleep or killed by the giant roots.  He'd have to escape via flight or levatation in order to do so and then change the location of the fight since the battlefield is not covered in sleeping powder.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



1- Naruto stopped that Jutsu with less AoE jutsu. 
(1)

and I think you believe this jutsu is even weaker than 1 FRS

Hiruzen destroyed it with his Enma Lol 
(1)
(1)

- He can do that? 

- Look 
(1)

You see all these mountains under it? 
Now you know Nagato can do stronger than this is he used it by himself. 
Even if we assume that Buddha will survive I really doubt that there will be anything left from
it. @.@


----------



## ueharakk (Apr 20, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> 1- Naruto stopped that Jutsu with less AoE jutsu.
> (1)


That's not a jutsu with less AoE, a normal rasengan does as much damage to a house as one of pein's missiles Naruto had an army of clones using rasengans the size of his whole body, and that wasn't flower tree world, that's a normal mokuton forest.



TorJaN said:


> and I think you believe this jutsu is even weaker than 1 FRS


yeah it is for two reasons:
1) FRS did more damage to Kurama than 25+ SM COR each which are hyped to be able to hollow out a mountain, and thus each being much more powerful than nagato's laser explosion we saw in that panel.
2) When FRS explodes, the explosion itself is larger than multiple mountains.



TorJaN said:


> Hiruzen destroyed it with his Enma Lol
> (1)
> (1)
> 
> - He can do that?


Brotherin, don't make me refute the blatantly obvious.  Hiruzen destroyed a couple of branches with enma in those panels, and the biggest mokuton that Hashirama did in that fight didn't even cover the rooftop of a building.  That has nothing to do with defending against the normal mokuton forest madara used that required naruto's clone army to counter, let alone the much much larger flower tree world let alone a SM powered flower tree world.



TorJaN said:


> - Look
> (1)
> 
> You see all these mountains under it?
> ...


That's he size of CT when it's complete, and even then 8 tailed Kurama broke free of it while mokuton buddah picks up 100% Kurama like a big rat.

Hashirama is going to attack the core before it is completed and we've seen when prime nagato actually did the technique himself, it only took a single TBB, a KCM FRS and yasaka's magatama in order to destroy the technique.

Hashirama's jet gatling arm deals the equivalent of 11 bijuudamas or more.


----------



## Trojan (Apr 20, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Hashi murders him by clasping his hands and making a forest eat him while he's being pulled in.  Assuming it's not a mokubunshin.
> 
> CT gets smashed or crushed by a mokuton fist, and possibly used as a rasengan against Nagato the same way he grabbed a bijuudama and slammed it into the Kyuubi.  Even if it got stupid huge because it was deemed too cool to watch suck up things to casually break, Hashirama has earth meld/mokuton meld, and can just retreat into the earth - probably the center, for a defence.  He can even leave another clone up there so Nagato thinks he died and ends the jutsu.
> 
> ...



- this way


and here
single TBB, a KCM FRS and yasaka's magatama in order to destroy the technique.

and against Pain Vs SM Naruto 
all of them wasn't in situation that allowed them to do that, and if Naruto who use tons and
tons of clones was not able to so so, there is no reason to assume that Hashi can do. 

- mmm doesn't seem logical IMO. 

- Yet, he can die by a Kunai
single TBB, a KCM FRS and yasaka's magatama in order to destroy the technique.

anyway, I can't discuss with a lot of people at once. Lol 
I give up. 

Even if Hashi wins at the end, I still don't see it easy as how people overrated him. 
Also, He is Not that smart to figure Nagato's abilities out and make counters for them in such
a small time!

Even Kakashi who's in whole different Galaxy in term of intelligence couldn't do it! 
As Tobirama said Hashi is too naive,


----------



## Trojan (Apr 20, 2013)

> =ueharakk;46985197]That's not a jutsu with less AoE, a normal rasengan does as much damage to a house as one of pein's missiles Naruto had an army of clones using rasengans the size of his whole body, *and that wasn't flower tree world, that's a normal mokuton forest*.



The only different is that the other jutsu has flowers in it, I can't see any different other than that.


> yeah it is for two reasons:
> 1) FRS did more damage to Kurama than 25+ SM COR each which are hyped to be able to hollow out a mountain, and thus each being much more powerful than nagato's laser explosion we saw in that panel.
> 2) When FRS explodes, the explosion itself is larger than multiple mountains.



cool, and we saw a small ST from Diva > FRS 





> Brotherin, don't make me refute the blatantly obvious.  Hiruzen destroyed a couple of branches with enma in those panels, and the biggest mokuton that Hashirama did in that fight didn't even cover the rooftop of a building.  That has nothing to do with defending against the normal mokuton forest madara used that required naruto's clone army to counter, let alone the much much larger flower tree world let alone a SM powered flower tree world.



What I meant by that is Nagato doesn't have to destroy everything only those around him
that's more than enough + He can fly with his summon any way so he doesn't need to face
all of that from the start. 


> That's he size of CT when it's complete, and even then 8 tailed Kurama broke free of it while mokuton buddah picks up 100% Kurama like a big rat.



True, but what about Hashi himself? can he staid on its head against the gravity? 
because I think if not, then he can't do anything by it after that. 


> Hashirama is going to attack the core before it is completed and we've seen when prime nagato actually did the technique himself, it only took a single TBB, a KCM FRS and yasaka's magatama in order to destroy the technique.



Hashi is not as smart as Itachi, it's already canon that he's TOO NAIVE. 

and for the second part, that CT was not completed though. 


> Hashirama's jet gatling arm deals the equivalent of 11 bijuudamas or more.



Those TBB didn't explode I guess. @.@ 
but, well, that's true. 

Again, I give up. 


Thank you all.


----------



## ueharakk (Apr 20, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> The only different is that the other jutsu has flowers in it, I can't see any different other than that.


Debate honestly, don't make me refute the obvious.  



TorJaN said:


> cool, and we saw a small ST from Diva > FRS


shinra tensei dispels ninjutsu, a shinra tensei that dispels FRS in no way means that it's anywhere near the power of FRS. Don't make me refute the blatantly obvious.



TorJaN said:


> What I meant by that is Nagato doesn't have to destroy everything only those around him
> that's more than enough + He can fly with his summon any way so he doesn't need to face
> all of that from the start.


Sure, flying is a viable way of not getting hit by flower tree world, but not asura's canons.



TorJaN said:


> True, but what about Hashi himself? can he staid on its head against the gravity?
> because I think if not, then he can't do anything by it after that.


Hashirama can be protected inside one of the thousands of hands of the mokuton buddah.



TorJaN said:


> Hashi is not as smart as Itachi, it's already canon that he's TOO NAIVE.


naivety has nothing to do with analytic abilities of techniques



TorJaN said:


> and for the second part, that CT was not completed though.


Irrelevant since hashirama will be punching the technique while he is being drawn to it and has no reason to try and destroy CT after the technique has been completed unless he forgot his wallet in there.



TorJaN said:


> Those TBB didn't explode I guess. @.@
> but, well, that's true.


How did they not explode?  The explosion we saw was far far bigger than the ones that normal bijuudamas make, it just wasn't the usual perfect circle explosion, instead it was an explosion similar to the nature of a chou mini bijuudama or FRS's raw explosion.


----------



## Azula (Apr 20, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> - this way
> 
> 
> and here
> single TBB, a KCM FRS and yasaka's magatama in order to destroy the technique.



he has many options available to deal with bansho tenin, he can grow branches from his body, which can then be used to attack nagato or anchor himself to avoid getting pulled or he can simply attack from right beneath nagato


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Apr 20, 2013)

Hashi goes SM and summons the Gatling Punch thingy. Proceeds to stomp.


----------



## TraderJoe (Apr 20, 2013)

Hashi is to much for Nagato. Other than the sage of six paths, no one can defeat him.


----------



## Nikushimi (Apr 20, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Hashirama shows Nagato what an actual shinobi god looks like.





Komnenos said:


> Hashirama makes Nagato his bitch.





Komnenos said:


> Make an Itachi vs Part I Sasuke thread, and you'll get the same responses.
> 
> Same reasoning applies to the responses here.





Komnenos said:


> Although if you must know, Hashirama will use Mokuton to make Nagato his bitch.



^Yeah, I'm gonna go with all of this.

No restrictions? Hashirama makes Nagato his ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".). He could literally take Nagato's strongest Jutsu, Chibaku Tensei, and just fucking smash him with it.


----------



## Gold Roger (Apr 20, 2013)

Hashirama takes this.
Think of it this way OP.

Madara > Nagato
Hashirama >= Madara

That pretty much ends this.


----------



## joshhookway (Apr 20, 2013)

Wood Buddha gg. If Nagato can't beat 6tails 50% kyuubi, he stands no chance against a person who grabbed Kyuubi like a pet.


----------



## Nikushimi (Apr 20, 2013)

joshhookway said:


> If Nagato can't beat 6tails 50% kyuubi,



What?

Nagato did beat Six-Tailed Naruto.

Using only Pain Tendou. Chibaku Tensei had Naruto completely confined; it took nearly a complete Kyuubi transformation to break free.

The actual Nagato at his best, the one we saw face Itachi, Naruto, and B, would destroy Six-Tailed Naruto entirely effortlessly. It would pretty much just be an exact repeat of what happened to B when he attacked Nagato in V2 form, which is something to the effect of "Charge in blindly->Jinchuuriki chakra cloak gets absorbed->Nagato rapes."


----------



## Sans (Apr 20, 2013)

Komnenos said:


> The poll results will provide me comedy.



And they most certainly have.


----------



## Jagger (Apr 20, 2013)

Poor Nagato, he already went through so much shit and you want him to fight Hashirama?


----------



## Trojan (Apr 20, 2013)

Gold Roger said:


> Hashirama takes this.
> Think of it this way OP.
> 
> Madara > Nagato
> ...



I honestly think the way people think of Hashi's wood is overrated.

slamming jiraiya into the ground with just his tongue

Look how much wood is there, and what happened to the Gokage? Nothing
there is no such nonsense like it will come ALL the time and there is nothing can stop it. 
Even though the Gokage doesn't have the same raw power as Nagato. 

slamming jiraiya into the ground with just his tongue

Madara was dealing with that with BASIC Fire jutsu for God's sake. 
Where did we see any thing of this nonsense the wood will not stop and it will come from
everywhere. 

When the Buddha was destroyed 

slamming jiraiya into the ground with just his tongue

Madara was fighting Hashi just fine (Without Sasunoo or Kurama after that) and he fought
him for hours Madara without his PS has no great raw power at all! 

Onoki who has the jinton (almost like the laser) 
Dealt with it just fine. 

slamming jiraiya into the ground with just his tongue
slamming jiraiya into the ground with just his tongue

Finally Hashi being Too Naive
slamming jiraiya into the ground with just his tongue

Also will help, it's just like why Narato didn't whip the floor with Obito already! 

and Nagato has GM something like this
slamming jiraiya into the ground with just his tongue
slamming jiraiya into the ground with just his tongue

Will also destroy the Wood, Not to mention the dragons the sucks the souls! 

Madara was fighting with EMS in if the battle was longer 1 or 2 minats the outcome will change
Hashi was not able to stand more than that

slamming jiraiya into the ground with just his tongue

And this is Madara's eyes, but even stronger! 

But as I see all people here agreed that Hashi is stronger

All what I want to see it's NOT gonna be easy as people try to say, 
Hiruzen doesn't have the same raw power as Hashi, yet he's stronger than him!

He doesn't have jinton as Onoki, or Super speed like A, or raw power like Yagore with his 3tails
but we know that even when he's old he's stronger than all of them! 

This point is just to say Raw power is NOT everything! 
Minato, and Obito hardly have any raw power yet they are 2 of the strongest 10!

You see my point ?


----------



## Sans (Apr 20, 2013)

Hiruzen is not stronger than Hashirama. 

Please go and grab the Part I statement that has been obviously retconned by now.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Apr 20, 2013)

Komnenos said:


> And they most certainly have.



It's like the entire Battledome stopped by to vote.


----------



## Bonly (Apr 20, 2013)

I'd say Hashi would win. Hashi can have his Mokuton pop up right underneath a person as well as have his have his be on the same size as Kurama while in base. With Mokuton popping up all over the place Nagato will constantly be on the defense using Preta,Deva, and Asura path to get rid of the wood. Hashi can create clones, has genjutsu, his own version of Byakugo, Mokuton: Hōbi which was able to tank a 100 percent Kurama's Bijuudama,Rashomon gates, and has Sage mode to bump the level of his jutsu which where already good as well as boost all of his own stats. Hashi has defensive jutsu to protect himself from Deva and Asura paths attacks, has Mokuton to keep Nagato away from using Human path on him, and Mokuton to easily deal with Summonings via Animal path. Preta might absorb the chakra from Mokuton but it'll still be around which Hashi can likely control again. Hashi would eventually overwhelm Nagato with all his jutsu and come out for the win.


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 21, 2013)

With what we've seen, I've no reason to say Hashirama. Nothing Hashirama has shown can get past the Preta Path; the Preta Path will shut down his Ninjutsu and force him into close combat.

From there Nagato dominates given the Demon Path, God Path and the Animal Path make CQC hell, and the Human and Hell Realms would be instant game enders should they land. 
On top of that Nagato's range of Ninjutsu could supplement his Rinnegan style to help him win more efficiently. 

I'm more than sure Hashirama will show some high grade and high scale techniques which will likely help him beat Nagato. However _right now_ he's not shown anything like that.


----------



## Bkprince33 (Apr 21, 2013)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> With what we've seen, I've no reason to say Hashirama. Nothing Hashirama has shown can get past the Preta Path; the Preta Path will shut down his Ninjutsu and force him into close combat.
> 
> From there Nagato dominates given the Demon Path, God Path and the Animal Path make CQC hell, and the Human and Hell Realms would be instant game enders should they land.
> On top of that Nagato's range of Ninjutsu could supplement his Rinnegan style to help him win more efficiently.
> ...



 seriously bro?


Your using a no limits fallacy for pretty path.


You do release hashi can just pull out his scroll of weapons and have his moukoton control it like in the first ever scan we saw of madara vs hashi.



I hate to burst your bubble but  pretha isn't absorbing the giant Buddha that made the kyubi look like a puppy, not to mention hashi has a sage mode so if he keeps trying to absorb he will turn into stone , Nagato has literally no chance against hashi.


----------



## Bonly Jr. (Apr 21, 2013)

Last I checked, Nagato doesn't have info on Flower tree world. Hashirama spawns that, Nagato breathes,and gets K.O'd. If he wants to Chou Shinra tensei it, Deva's powers go for a long time, giving Hashirama his chance to spank all of them at once.

Hashirama >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nagato.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Apr 21, 2013)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> With what we've seen, I've no reason to say Hashirama. Nothing Hashirama has shown can get past the Preta Path; the Preta Path will shut down his Ninjutsu and force him into close combat.
> 
> From there Nagato dominates given the Demon Path, God Path and the Animal Path make CQC hell, and the Human and Hell Realms would be instant game enders should they land.
> On top of that Nagato's range of Ninjutsu could supplement his Rinnegan style to help him win more efficiently.
> ...





Your wish is granted, Hashirama has shown high grade stuff.
You'd know if you read the last 10 chapters or so


----------



## Jagger (Apr 21, 2013)

As much as I like Nagato, he gets destroyed.


----------



## Kai (Apr 21, 2013)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Nothing Hashirama has shown can get past the Preta Path; the Preta Path will shut down his Ninjutsu and force him into close combat.


Hashirama has genjutsu, flower pollen, and a variety of weaponry for kenjutsu against Preta Path. If he instills it with natural energy from Sage Mode, Preta Path horribly malfunctions.

Nagato will need Shinra Tensei just to keep up with Shodai because the sheer scale of Hashirama's Mokuton can deal with *all* of Nagato's powers (Asura, Animal, etc) simultaneously while relentlessly attacking Nagato himself.

Mokuton: Hobi no Jutsu > CST
Senpo: Mokuton: Shinsuusenju > CT

Nagato needs to stress the absolute limits of his Rin'negan to fight comparatively with Hashirama's rather casual expression of such level of power. 

Once Nagato has to rest from frustrating cool downs, he gets destroyed by Hashirama.


----------



## KeyofMiracles (Apr 21, 2013)

As far as I'm concerned Shinsuusenju isn't even necessary. All he has to do is go Sage Mode and use his weaker, but still large scale Mokuton Jutsu to overwhelm Nagato.

-Opening with Flower Tree World pretty much guarantees his victory.as Nagato will move to obliterate the forest via CST. Once he does that Deva's power won't return to him for quite some time  This will lead to him being overpowered by a combo of Hashirama's Senjutsu enhanced Hotei no Jutsu (Which already rival 100% Kurama in terms of size pre Senjutsu power up) and his Mokujin (Which was strong enough to catch and hurl a Bijuu Dama back at Madara, as we know Bijuu Dama are definitely very heavy)

-Or if he feels like making Nagato piss his pants he will start off with Shinsuusenju and crush him with Chojo Kebutsu.


----------



## Sans (Apr 21, 2013)

Honestly, the only thing this thread tells me, is who to completely disregard when it comes to their opinion on Nagato.

Dat poll.


----------



## Axiom (Apr 21, 2013)

Ah christ.  Accidentally picked Nagato >.>

Oh well.  Hashi stomps this in any way he sees fit.  He could do it in like 10 different ways and he'll never have to expend himself these are just two guys on entirely different planets.


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 21, 2013)

Bkprince33 said:


> Your using a no limits fallacy for pretty path.



Its record suggests Ninjutsu is more or less useless.



> You do release hashi can just pull out his scroll of weapons and have his moukoton control it like in the first ever scan we saw of madara vs hashi.



Nagato does have access to jutsu like ST, the Demon Path's entire arsenal and even the infamous Preta Path to shut down any Mokuton he can touch.
In addition there is CT, which can take Mokuton apart and assimilate it.



> I hate to burst your bubble but  pretha isn't absorbing the giant Buddha that made the kyubi look like a puppy, not to mention hashi has a sage mode so if he keeps trying to absorb he will turn into stone , Nagato has literally no chance against hashi.



Answer two questions:
1] Why won't a Ninjutsu be absorbed by a sealing jutsu that absorbs Ninjutsu.
2] Show me that the Sage Mode thing you mentioned will have any relevance. I know what you're referencing, but tell me why that one precise moment has any relevance to your point. I ask because we've got Nagato absorbing a lot of Senjutsu and not turning to stone.



Grimmjowsensei said:


> Your wish is granted, Hashirama has shown high grade stuff.
> You'd know if you read the last 10 chapters or so



Nothing that suggests he can overcome the Rinnegan. He may soon, but right now he hasn't _*yet*_.



Kai said:


> Hashirama has genjutsu, flower pollen, and a variety of weaponry for kenjutsu against Preta Path. If he instills it with natural energy from Sage Mode, Preta Path horribly malfunctions.
> 
> Nagato will need Shinra Tensei just to keep up with Shodai because the sheer scale of Hashirama's Mokuton can deal with *all* of Nagato's powers (Asura, Animal, etc) simultaneously while relentlessly attacking Nagato himself.



Out of everything you listed, the only thing that is remotely threatening to Nagato is the Genjutsu. 

Remember Nagato turned to stone by absorbing Naruto entering Sage Mode. That is the only time absorbing _Sage Mode_ is threatening to Nagato. Nagato has shown that doesn't apply any other time.

Why would Nagato bother with trying to force a Shinra Tensei when Hashirama will be the one to forced to use a lot of alternative jutsu because of one Path? For instance, according to what you said Hashirama would have to opt for Genjutsu and Kenjutsu in response to Nagato's Preta Path. Kenjutsu isn't very helpful with Demon Realm blasting things i.e. discouraging CQC or the God Path flinging the swords else where whilst Nagato can use one of the other powers to gain leverage.
We've seen that Nagato doesn't use these powers one at a time, he uses them simultaneously when needed.

I'm a little sceptical about the flower pollen being a counter to the Preta Path though given that it is a product of an elemental fusion Ninjutsu, which would implicate it is chakra.



> Mokuton: Hobi no Jutsu > CST
> Senpo: Mokuton: Shinsuusenju > CT
> 
> Nagato needs to stress the absolute limits of his Rin'negan to fight comparatively with Hashirama's rather casual expression of such level of power.
> ...



Given the Bijuu Dama tanking feat, it is hard to say Hobi doesn't tank CST.

However Shinsuusenju is questionable. Shinsuusenju is no different, the final product of the jutsu making process, is no different to the raw materials that CT assimilates. So what stops it from being taken apart like every other raw material? That isn't even factoring in that like all other jutsu, its jutsu making process can be reversed and absorbed, making it prone to the Preta Path.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Apr 21, 2013)

> I'm more than sure Hashirama will show some high grade and high scale techniques which will likely help him beat Nagato. However right now he's not shown anything like that.



How many gigatons do you think Hashi needs to get on Nagato's level?


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Apr 21, 2013)

Axiom said:


> Ah christ.  Accidentally picked Nagato >.>
> 
> Oh well.  Hashi stomps this in any way he sees fit.  He could do it in like 10 different ways and he'll never have to expend himself these are just two guys on entirely different planets.



I was about to have a long conversation with you about that.


----------



## Sans (Apr 22, 2013)

Because Kishimoto would draw Hashirama's Mokuton being rendered totally useless with one jutsu.

That's definitely what I take from the manga whenever I see Hashirama in action.


----------



## Bkprince33 (Apr 22, 2013)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> it's record suggests Ninjutsu is more or less useless.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


St won't do much to moukuton, Nagato best bet would be to play the range game and even then hashi has the gates as defense, preta path isn't doing much either especially when hashi moukuton can control weapons and hashi can engage him in cqc while in sage mode.


Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Answer two questions:
> 1] Why won't a Ninjutsu be absorbed by a sealing jutsu that absorbs Ninjutsu.
> 2] Show me that the Sage Mode thing you mentioned will have any relevance. I know what you're referencing, but tell me why that one precise moment has any relevance to your point. I ask because we've got Nagato absorbing a lot of Senjutsu and not turning to stone.




 because the thousand hands dwarfs over even the kyubi, the shock wave alone from one of its attacks would destroy Nagato, keep in mind nagato has to get close to absorb it, not to mention its made from a massive amount of sage chakra, and Nagato would obviously turn into stone.



He turned into stone trying to absorb some of narutos chakra, what do you think will happen if he tries to absorb all the chakra it took to make the thousand hand Buddha.


Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Nothing that suggests he can overcome the Rinnegan. He may soon, but right now he hasn't _*yet*_.


I hope your joking
,

 Hashi is currently the strongest ninja the manga has displayed with the exception of maybe Edo rinnengon madara once we get more feats.


----------



## PlasticGear (Apr 22, 2013)

Wait, this thread is STILL going?



Hashi stomps with pretty much any of his large-scale techniques. I'm not buying Preta fully absorbing Mokuton as it's a physical substance as well as a chakra construct. It's suck the chakra out of it, but it's sure as hell not stopping the momentum behind, say, Giant Buddha: Jet Gatling Gun no Jutsu.


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 22, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> How many gigatons do you think Hashi needs to get on Nagato's level?



A that stops the Preta Path from shutting down most of his arsenal. As well as an attack _not_ made of the material that CT uses.



Bkprince33 said:


> St won't do much to moukuton, Nagato best bet would be to play the range game and even then hashi has the gates as defense, preta path isn't doing much either especially when hashi moukuton can control weapons and hashi can engage him in cqc while in sage mode.



ST won't do much to Mokuton Ninjutsu because? Hobi you have a point, but if you're going to tell me that _all_ Mokuton Ninjutsu have that level of durability then you need to show it. 

What will the gates do, just keep Hashirama shielded? That short of thing would encourage a CT, or a very powerful ST. Or missiles which would go around the gates - c.f. the Demon Realm missiles targeting Chouji because Demon Realm willed it.

Your reasoning for Preta Path not doing much isn't strong. You said it doesn't do much, but you haven't said why. Furthermore you have said because Hashirama can control weapons, okay but relevance to the Preta Path's effect on Mokuton?
You do realise by even suggesting the Sage Mode CQC point you inadvertently acknowledged that the Preta Path shuts down Mokuton, hence Hashirama's need to try CQC.

And this is falling into a classic Rinnegan trap, Preta Path forces your Ninjutsu to be useles, so you try Taijutsu and then jutsu like ST and Demon Realm can make that go horribly wrong. In fact, Hashirama would have to make sure Nagato doesn't touch him because of the Human/Hell Realm powers.



> because the thousand hands dwarfs over even the kyubi, the shock wave alone from one of its attacks would destroy Nagato, keep in mind nagato has to get close to absorb it, not to mention its made from a massive amount of sage chakra, and Nagato would obviously turn into stone.
> 
> He turned into stone trying to absorb some of narutos chakra, what do you think will happen if he tries to absorb all the chakra it took to make the thousand hand Buddha.



Just because it is super sized, it doesn't mean it'll be such a huge threat. Especially when it is made from the same stuff the Preta Path and CT can take out.

A shock wave won't do much to someone who can use ST as a shield. Especially someone who can divert Hashirama's attention because he uses his strongest jutsu. Animal Realm is a simple solution to this with the amplification summoning jutsu - the jutsu that causes the dog to multiply with each hit.
Clearly Hashirama's not going to benefit from hitting the dog many times.

You misunderstood what happened with Naruto. Nagato has absorbed a lot of Senjutsu, even the Sage Mode itself and he didn't turn to stone.
*Except* when he was absorbing Naruto's chakra *whilst* Naruto was _entering_ Sage Mode. 
Nothing brings in more natural energy than the process of entering Sage Mode. 

What that means is unless Nagato starts absorbing Hashirama from him (Hashirama) directly _whilst_ Hashirama is entering Sage Mode. Then Nagato has no worries about turning into stone.


----------



## Bkprince33 (Apr 22, 2013)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> .   A that stops the Preta Path from shutting down most of his arsenal. As well as an attack _not_ made of the material that CT uses.


You do realize the moukuton hashi, utilizes isn't raw chakra, he uses chakra to create and then mainpulate the moukuton, your reasoning is invalid because the moukuton can strike and damage preta before he can grab hold of the moukuton and The chakra out of it.


Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> .
> ST won't do much to Mokuton Ninjutsu because? Hobi you have a point, but if you're going to tell me that _all_ Mokuton Ninjutsu have that level of durability then you need to show it.


Because it isn't a standard ninjutsu, the moukuton has a physical form and wouldn't simply disperse from a st.

Moukuton has he capability to tank bijudama, but you think a standard st can stop it? 


Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> .
> What will the gates do, just keep Hashirama shielded? That short of thing would encourage a CT, or a very powerful ST. Or missiles which would go around the gates - c.f. the Demon Realm missiles targeting Chouji because Demon Realm willed it.


If a 8 tailed kyubi broke out of ct, what do you think the Buddha will do, in all seriousness? 



Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> .
> Your reasoning for Preta Path not doing much isn't strong. You said it doesn't do much, but you haven't said why. Furthermore you have said because Hashirama can control weapons, okay but relevance to the Preta Path's effect on Mokuton?
> You do realise by even suggesting the Sage Mode CQC point you inadvertently acknowledged that the Preta Path shuts down Mokuton, hence Hashirama's need to try CQC.


Because preta can't absorb weapons? And wouldn't be able to absorb the moukuton for that matter, pretha can only absorb chakra, a sword would def impale him before he even gets close enough to absorb the chakra out of the moukuton.


Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> .
> 
> And this is falling into a classic Rinnegan trap, Preta Path forces your Ninjutsu to be useles, so you try Taijutsu and then jutsu like ST and Demon Realm can make that go horribly wrong. In fact, Hashirama would have to make sure Nagato doesn't touch him because of the Human/Hell Realm powers.



Even f Nagato is trapped in bringer of darkness ? And hashi uses moukuton clones before he engages him? 



Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> .
> Just because it is super sized, it doesn't mean it'll be such a huge threat. Especially when it is made from the same stuff the Preta Path and CT can take out.


By this logic you must think pretha can absorb the kyubi just because its made of chakra , your going to have to provide some serious evidence to suggest a ct will hold the over size bubba, when it couldn't hold kn8.



Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> .
> A shock wave won't do much to someone who can use ST as a shield. Especially someone who can divert Hashirama's attention because he uses his strongest jutsu. Animal Realm is a simple solution to this with the amplification summoning jutsu - the jutsu that causes the dog to multiply with each hit.
> Clearly Hashirama's not going to benefit from hitting the dog many times.


Your using a no limits fallacy for most of nagato's abilities, you do realize kn6 was able to reverse the effect of st by anchoring down, what do you think a shockwave from the Buddah will do 

Flower world renders the dog useless. Not to mention he can just trap him inside his moukuton.


Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> .
> You misunderstood what happened with Naruto. Nagato has absorbed a lot of Senjutsu, even the Sage Mode itself and he didn't turn to stone.
> *Except* when he was absorbing Naruto's chakra *whilst* Naruto was _entering_ Sage Mode.
> Nothing brings in more natural energy than the process of entering Sage Mode.


That's a interesting theory but its only speculation, another simple answer could be pretha absorbed to much sage chakra and couldn't control it.


Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> .
> What that means is unless Nagato starts absorbing Hashirama from him (Hashirama) directly _whilst_ Hashirama is entering Sage Mode. Then Nagato has no worries about turning into stone.



Again this is just speculation, I don't know how you came to the conclusion Nagato even remotely had a chance, bringer of darkness, flower tree, moukuton clones, wooden dragon, the moukuton golem, and thousand hand Buddha all point to Nagato. Being stomped with literally no difficulty.

Keep in mind hashi moukuton has a actual physical form, if the thousand hand Buddah attacks him, it will crush Nagato before he can even began to attempt to absorb chakra from it.


----------

