# EoS Sakura vs Tobirama



## StickaStick (May 14, 2015)

*Location*: Nuked Konaha
*Distance*: 25m
*Knowledge*: Full
*Mindset*: IC; For The Kill

*Scenario 1*: Sakara starts with her Byakugō active, and can only summons up to 5% Katsuyu.

*Scenario 2*: No restrictions on Katsuyu 

Who wins. Who dies.


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## Trojan (May 14, 2015)

Katsuyu solos. 

Otherwise, the only thing Tobirama can do to try to win is by cutting her neck. Tho, since his level as presented in the manga
to be below the like of Kin/Gin, I honestly doubt it. Especially with rather ordinary shunshin speed.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## StarWanderer (May 14, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Katsuyu solos.
> 
> Otherwise, the only thing Tobirama can do to try to win is by cutting her neck. Tho, since his level as presented in the manga
> to be below the like of Kin/Gin, I honestly doubt it. Especially with rather ordinary shunshin speed.



Tobirama is fast enough to dodge her attacks. He has shown reaction speed and attack speed faster than that of KCM Minato and good enough to mark and tag Juubito, by himself and a clone. That was Edo Tobirama. Alive Tobirama is even faster than that. His speed level is a lot higher than that of Kin/Gin.

He can just exhauste Sakura.

Also, i'll remind you one thing - Kin/Gin vs Tobirama fights happened of-panel.


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## StickaStick (May 14, 2015)

With her Byakugō active and Katsuyu providing content pressure, it's like to be Sakura who exhausts Tobirama and not the other way around.


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## StarWanderer (May 14, 2015)

StickaStick said:


> With her Byakugō active and Katsuyu providing content pressure, it's like to be Sakura who pressures Tobirama and not the other way around.



Tobirama is a Senju and his speed level is good enough to dodge Sakura and Katsuyu. Sakura can get exhausted.

Reactions: Like 1


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## StickaStick (May 14, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> Tobirama is a Senju and his speed level is good enough to dodge Sakura and Katsuyu. Sakura can get exhausted.


It took going through an entire war and expanding unmeasurable amounts of chakra before she even began to show exhaustion down the line against Kaguya. I sincerely doubt Tobirama will be able to replicate such a pressure-packed scenario. 

Tobirama will eventually have to get in close to attack if he wants to win which means one misstep on his part and Sakura sends him into another orbit. Dare I ask how Tobirama actually plans on reliably hurting Sakura in the first place?


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## UchihaX28 (May 14, 2015)

Sakura loses.

 Tobirama just summons Hashirama to stomp for him.


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## FlamingRain (May 14, 2015)

> his level as presented in the manga
> to be below the like of Kin/Gin



Kin and Gin staged a coup d'etat the first time they went after Tobirama and they didn't actually manage to kill him.

The next time they fought him they had the rest of the "highly skilled" Kinkaku Force behind them, and yet during the Fourth Great Ninja War Kin and Gin thought Tobirama had snared them in Edo Tensei (like Mū, as opposed to Rasa), implying that they died in the fight before Tobirama was killed.

He's not below their level.


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## Arles Celes (May 14, 2015)

Tobirama is smart and possibly still faster but Sakura can kill him with one hit, got crazy regeneration and with Katsuyu on top of that...


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## Trojan (May 14, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> Sakura loses.
> 
> Tobirama just summons Hashirama to stomp for him.


ET needs sacrifices. Also, even if he summoned Hashirama, he will be a shit tier level. Since Tobirama's ET is weaker than Oro's in part 1.  



FlamingRain said:


> Kin and Gin staged a coup d'etat the first time they went after Tobirama and they didn't actually manage to kill him.
> 
> The next time they fought him they had the rest of the "highly skilled" Kinkaku Force behind them, and yet during the Fourth Great Ninja War Kin and Gin thought Tobirama had snared them in Edo Tensei (like Mū, as opposed to Rasa), implying that they died in the fight before Tobirama was killed.
> 
> He's not below their level.



Not really.  They said it's his jutsu, not him. Also, Kin/Gin did not show any type of respect to Tobirama's level which indicates that he's below theirs. Unlike when they were talking about the 3rd Raikage which it's obvious that they respect the man's power.

As for the second time, keep in mind that even if Tobirama went with his students, they wouldn't have
made it, and only because it became 20 Vs 1. Does not prove much as we don't know if he got stomped or if he putted a fight.

Either way, it was made clear that they are superior to him, and it was mentioned several times, so it's not something to be taken lightly. 


And on this match, just so we don't go way off topic, Tobirama does not have much to deal with Sakura's healing abilities out side of his explosion tags, which he can't use anyway without ET
(unless he wants to kill himself as well)

And adding Katsyuy to this would make things much worst for him.


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## Rocky (May 14, 2015)

If he has access to some fodder variant of Edo Tensei, I'm confident Sakura will get hit with the explosive tag chain at some point during the fight. It's going to take a..._long_ time for her to actually punch him.


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## ScottofFury (May 14, 2015)

Tobirama wins both scenarios. He is too fast, intelligent and deadly. What has Sakura got but her strength? Is there any decent regen feats for her? She won't be able to hit him no matter what ,and Tobi would just cut her head off within a few seconds of fighting.


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## Trojan (May 14, 2015)

ScottofFury said:


> Tobirama wins both scenarios. He is too fast, intelligent and deadly. What has Sakura got but her strength?* Is there any decent regen feats for her?* She won't be able to hit him no matter what ,and Tobi would just cut her head off within a few seconds of fighting.



healing herself from Madara's Gedu-dama and Kaguya's acids.  



> She won't be able to hit him no matter what


Not really, especially in a close range, with her AoE punch attack as she did to the Juubi's clones. 
Also, Tobirama's FTG is fast, but he, himself is not really fast. 

& Add in Katsuyu's clones and their acids as well.


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## Trojan (May 14, 2015)

@Flaming

here's takL's translation



> if u mean the last page, the convo in jp is brilliant. im yet to find a dead-on eng expression for each line in it but roughly it goes like this
> 
> -the 1st panel
> Gin Kaku: t's a damn shame... that we are under the jutsu of the second hokage we fucking wiped the floor with...innit, kinkaku?
> ...





I find it hard to believe that wiping the floor with someone means your death with them. It rather sounds a stomp
in their favour if you ask me, which means they are at least 1 tier above Tobirama's level.

Notice how they think it's a shame as well. Unlike when you see Madara talking about Hashirama, or A & B about Minato
or the Mizukage and Mu about each other...etc


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## FlamingRain (May 14, 2015)

Hussain said:


> They said it's his jutsu, not him.



_*"Snared by the Second Hokage, when we beat him before, eh Kinkaku?"*_

Tobirama and his students losing to _the Kinkaku Force_ does not mean that when Tobirama fought them he wasn't able to kill _any of them_ himself. We know Tobirama died fighting _the team_, but the gold and silver brothers themselves are only 2 out of the 20+ ninja on that team.



> Also, Kin/Gin did not show any type of respect to Tobirama's level which indicates that he's below theirs.



What are you even talking about here?


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## Trojan (May 14, 2015)

Since I already posted the translation, I'll leave that part



> What are you even talking about here?



When the charactes are rivals or close to each other in power, you see them talking about the other in respect to their power. For example, the 4th Databook shows that Mu respects the 2nd Mizukage and he's his favourite. 

When Madara fap over Hashirama, he always talk about his power and how it's so great and that he's the only to be able to defeat him...etc

When A talks about Minato you see him saying that he can't be surpassed, and all those sort of things.

However, in this case, you don't see Kin/Gin respecting Tobirama's power at all, as they think much of him or of his power. That's the way I understood it at least.


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## Kyu (May 14, 2015)

Tobirama speedblitzes and decapitates her in a single shunshin.


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## FlamingRain (May 14, 2015)

Hussain said:


> When the charactes are rivals or close to each other in power, you see them talking about the other in respect to their power.



Gengetsu didn't return the favor to Mū, though, and Orochimaru sure didn't show any respect for Jiraiya...neither did Deidara speak with respect for the Uchiha bros or Sasuke the Orochimaru that he wouldn't have beaten if he were healthy...so that's not always the case that when characters are powerful other characters are going to speak about them with respect.


They could be referring to what happened during the coup d'etat when talking about Tobirama being beaten, since that incident left him on the verge of death and was the one mentioned in the very next chapter.

It doesn't mean Tobirama couldn't have killed them if he knew that he was going into a fight with them like he would have during the war. If beating him were really _that_ simple then the entire Kinkaku Force being present means they should have just walked right over him and then went to kill the rest of his students too, as opposed to being occupied dealing with him long enough for everyone else to escape like what actually happened.


Who would Kin and Gin even think brought them back with Tobirama's technique if not Tobirama himself anyway?


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## Icegaze (May 14, 2015)

tobiarama takes her head off
if that don't kill her 
he keeps doing so till she runs out of steam


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## StarWanderer (May 14, 2015)

StickaStick said:


> It took going through an entire war and expanding unmeasurable amounts of chakra before she even began to show exhaustion down the line against Kaguya. I sincerely doubt Tobirama will be able to replicate such a pressure-packed scenario.
> 
> Tobirama will eventually have to get in close to attack if he wants to win which means one misstep on his part and Sakura sends him into another orbit. Dare I ask how Tobirama actually plans on reliably hurting Sakura in the first place?



Aither cut her head off with Kunai, or Suiton, which was sharp enough to cut down Juubi tree roots. And i want you to show me how many jutsu Sakura used during the war.


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## UchihaX28 (May 14, 2015)

^ Pretty much this.

 If Tobirama managed to tag Juubito with just a clone and tagged him on multiple occasions as well, I'm certain Sakura can easily be tagged and then be disposed of with a Suiton.


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## DavyChan (May 14, 2015)

Tobirama is on a whole 'nother level than Sakura. I do believe she would put up a very good fight because of the battle scenario, but she ultimately shouldn't come out as the victor.

Tobirama wins mid-high diff.

Scenario 2: If you're implying 100% Katsuya, then that's some other level OP shit. OFC Sakura Katsuya would win.


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## StickaStick (May 14, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> Aither cut her head off with Kunai, or Suiton, which was sharp enough to cut down Juubi tree roots.


You seem to be working under the presumption Sakura will draw a big red X on her neck and let Tobirama have at it. Chances are when the opponent only has one reliable option of killing you, you take great measures to guard against it. Sakura could even use this knowledge to her advantage by side-stepping Tobirama at the last second and then sending him into another orbit.



> And i want you to show me how many jutsu Sakura used during the war.


All she needs is righty and lefty to to make Tobirama start seeing stars


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## Trojan (May 14, 2015)

> =FlamingRain;53589296]Gengetsu didn't return the favor to Mū, though, and Orochimaru sure didn't show any respect for Jiraiya...neither did Deidara speak with respect for the Uchiha bros or Sasuke the Orochimaru that he wouldn't have beaten if he were healthy...so that's not always the case that when characters are powerful other characters are going to speak about them with respect.



Deidara talks shit about the uchiha in a sense of admitting their superiority actually and he was seeing it an art which mocking his own. Not the same with Kin/Gin's case. 



> They could be referring to what happened during the coup d'etat when talking about Tobirama being beaten, since that incident left him on the verge of death and was the one mentioned in the very next chapter.


Regardless, Tobirama had a back up in that fight as well (the Raikage). In addition, the surprise attack would only be at the start of the battle not throughout. We have seen for example Obito & Minato, Oro and Hiruzen, the surprise attack team in the War against each other...etc.



> It doesn't mean Tobirama couldn't have killed them if he knew that he was going into a fight with them like he would have during the war. If beating him were really _that_ simple then the entire Kinkaku Force being present means they should have just walked right over him and then went to kill the rest of his students too, as opposed to being occupied dealing with him long enough for everyone else to escape like what actually happened.



That's a possibility I guess. 



> Who would Kin and Gin even think brought them back with Tobirama's technique if not Tobirama himself anyway?



The users chakra goes through the summoner as when Kimmimaro felt Oro's chakra in him. Or how itachi mentioned that as well when he met Kabuto. Tho that does not matter, as they only said it's his jutsu, and never addressed that it's him.


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## StarWanderer (May 14, 2015)

> You seem to be working under the presumption Sakura will draw a big red X on her neck and let Tobirama have at it. Chances are when the opponent only has one reliable option of killing you, you take great measures to guard against it. Sakura could even use this knowledge to her advantage by side-stepping Tobirama at the last second and then sending him into another orbit.



We are talking about alive Tobirama here. Edo Tensei affects physical stats, such as speed. Edo's are slower than alive ones. That was clearly shown by orochimaru's first season Edo Hashirama and Tobirama, when they were reanimated without their full power. But guess what - Edo Tobirama marked Juubito thanks to his striking speed and reaction speed. And his clone was capable of not just reacting to Gudoudama which was ready to explode, but teleporting it back to Juubito and saying few words to him before it explode, while Juubito didnt dodge it, or run away from it. Alive Tobirama is even faster than that. It is safe to say, because of Edo Tobirama's feats, that alive Tobirama is a speed monstrousity, an absolute wrecking mashine. Its not nessesary for him to aim for her neck. he can cut one arm, than another arm, than cut her legs off etc. He is a high-level speedster with Hiraishin, ranged attacks sharp enough to harm Sakura and higher IQ level. Tobirama cuts her down.



> All she needs is righty and lefty to to make Tobirama start seeing stars



Thats *if* she can hit him.


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## Bonly (May 14, 2015)

Depends on how much Sakura trained and how much chakra she got stored in her seal so I'd say it could go either way as of now.


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## Esket (May 14, 2015)

Tobirama takes this every time. Sakura never had the speed to deal with threats like him plus she only has two skills: strength and healing.

Reactions: Like 1


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## StickaStick (May 14, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> We are talking about alive Tobirama here. Edo Tensei affects physical stats, such as speed. Edo's are slower than alive ones.


Correct me if I'm mistaken but I believe it was Tobirama who said they (the Hokages) were brought back at virtually their "full power".

I also don't see what's so impressive about his striking speed. I grant you he was able to tag Juubito with his clone, but that was Juubito in his mindless form who might not have cared one way or another. Furthermore, Sakura has already demonstrated such speed feats as dodging Kaguya's chakra arms; which are no doubt representative of a greater striking speed than Tobirama is capable of. 



> Thats *if* she can hit him.


I would say the same thing right back at you except replace "she" with "he".


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## Trojan (May 14, 2015)

Kakashi attacking Kaguya makes people think he can beats even Narudo and Sasuke.

Why does not Sakura feats of attacking her make people think she can speedblitze defeat Tobirama?


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## StickaStick (May 14, 2015)

lol other than plain Sakura hate I have no idea.

I guess perhaps they see Sakura being useful and can't quite compute it so they throw out phrases like "outlier" and the such to try and minimize it.

I'm by no means of a fan of hers (actually I think she's an epic embarrassment as far as heroines go) but that doesn't mean I can deny what Kishi has put pencil to paper.


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## LostSelf (May 14, 2015)

I've always had one question that i don't remember if was answered. But Kakuzu that it's been a long time since he saw Ginkaku transforming, and inmediately said that Kinkaku should've been taken down, or something like that.

Wouldn't that imply that Kakuzu might've been a part of the squadron that fought Tobirama? I know he is from a different village, but Kakuzu has always served money. 

Aside from that, i can see Tobirama cutting Sakura to pieces with his cutting Suiton or tagging her with and outlasting her.


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## UchihaX28 (May 14, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Kakashi attacking Kaguya makes people think he can beats even Narudo and Sasuke.
> 
> Why does not Sakura feats of attacking her make people think she can speedblitze defeat Tobirama?



 Because she didn't do it on her own whereas Kakashi did.


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## Trojan (May 14, 2015)

Well, Kakashi had Obito's help, so he was not alone either.


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## UchihaX28 (May 14, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Well, Kakashi had Obito's help, so he was not alone either.





 Obito's MS is part of DMS Kakashi's power, but I'm sure you knew that.


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## StickaStick (May 14, 2015)

If Obito's MS is a part of Kakashi power then why did _Obito_ decide when Kakashi was done using it 

Obito _lent him_ it 

Lending = helping


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## UchihaX28 (May 14, 2015)

StickaStick said:


> If Obito's MS is a part of Kakashi power then why did _Obito_ decide when Kakashi was done using it
> 
> Obito _lent him_ it
> 
> Lending = helping





 So DMS Kakashi cannot use Obito's Mangekyo even though DMS implies he has 2 Mangekyo? 

 Obito's MS is what makes DMS Kakashi who he is. Take that away and he's just War Arc MS Kakashi which is not what the term DMS Kakashi implies.


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## Trojan (May 14, 2015)

Kushina is part of Narudo's power, and Narudo can use the chakra chains.


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## UchihaX28 (May 14, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Kushina is part of Narudo's power, and Narudo can use the chakra chains.



 Well, yeah, but ....

 Okay, yes, Kushina is part of Nardo's power.


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## Rocky (May 14, 2015)

They're talking about Kakashi in the context of the manga. The character Kakashi had help from Obito that allowed him to compete at a higher level than usual.


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## StickaStick (May 14, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> So DMS Kakashi cannot use Obito's Mangekyo even though DMS implies he has 2 Mangekyo?
> 
> Obito's MS is what makes DMS Kakashi who he is. Take that away and he's just War Arc MS Kakashi which is not what the term DMS Kakashi implies.



He could, but only because Obito went to him and said "hey Kakashi, use some of my power". 

You made the distinction that Kakashi did it on his own while Sakura didn't, which isn't correct. If Obito hadn't given Kakashi his powers then Kakashi would have stayed "worthless" as he considered himself beforehand.


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## UchihaX28 (May 14, 2015)

Rocky said:


> They're talking about Kakashi in the context of the manga. The character Kakashi had help from Obito that allowed him to compete at a higher level than usual.



 And those people Hussain commented on when he referred to them thinking Kakashi can beat Nardo or Sasuke is DMS Kakashi.


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## UchihaX28 (May 14, 2015)

StickaStick said:


> He could, but only because Obito went to him and said "hey Kakashi, use some of my power".
> 
> You made the distinction that Kakashi did it on his own while Sakura didn't, which isn't correct. If Obito hadn't given Kakashi his powers then Kakashi would have stayed "worthless" as he considered himself beforehand.



 Except I didn't. Hussain in his comment clearly referred to DMS Kakashi as the people he commented on referred to DMS Kakashi, so hence, my statement was referring to DMS Kakashi, not Kakashi in general.


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## Trojan (May 14, 2015)

DMS Kakashi defeathing them is still retarded tho as he only has a fraction of Obito's power. 
that's as saying fodder #3938 can defeat BM Minato and BSM Naruto at the same time because he has
part of their chakra. 

Oh well, Kakashi himself admitted that he had help when he was talking to Hago, and all the "help" Sakura
got was really falling from the Susanoo.


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## UchihaX28 (May 14, 2015)

Hussain said:


> DMS Kakashi defeathing them is still retarded tho as he only has a fraction of Obito's power.
> that's as saying fodder #3938 can defeat BM Minato and BSM Naruto at the same time because he has
> part of their chakra.
> 
> ...



 I never denied that. My statement implied that it's more reasonable to assume that DMS Kakashi's god tier as opposed to believing Sakura is within that range as well.

 And tbh, Sasuke's Susano'o did fair worse against Kaguya than Kakashi's did. In all honesty, DMS Kakashi managed to strike down Kaguya at her strongest whereas Sasuke failed to do so even with his Rinnegan technique and his PS was pushed back effortlessly. Hell, a weaker Kaguya pushed back both RSM Naruto and Sasuke's PS easily. 

 Of course, VoTE Sasuke is superior to the Sasuke that faced Kaguya, so Nardo and Sasuke both can defeat DMS Kakashi.


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## Rocky (May 14, 2015)

Kaguya was jobbing during her entire fight.

If they fought her in the BD, Kaguya shifts the dimension to the lava one and then comes back without them.

gg


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## Trojan (May 14, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> I never denied that. My statement implied that it's more reasonable to assume that DMS Kakashi's god tier as opposed to believing Sakura is within that range as well.
> 
> And tbh, Sasuke's Susano'o did fair worse against Kaguya than Kakashi's did. In all honesty, DMS Kakashi managed to strike down Kaguya at her strongest whereas Sasuke failed to do so even with his Rinnegan technique and his PS was pushed back effortlessly. Hell, a weaker Kaguya pushed back both RSM Naruto and Sasuke's PS easily.
> 
> Of course, VoTE Sasuke is superior to the Sasuke that faced Kaguya, so Nardo and Sasuke both can defeat DMS Kakashi.



Well, Sakura's feat of damaging Kaguya is actually superior to Sasuke's failure attempt with his PS, no?  

- Not really. Kaguya destroyed both Susanoos with 1 attack each. 
Also, as I said above, Sakura's feat is superior to Sasuke's as well, so who cares if Sasuke's PS feat is worst than Kakashi's or not.


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## UchihaX28 (May 14, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Well, Sakura's feat of damaging Kaguya is actually superior to Sasuke's failure attempt with his PS, no?



 No it's not considering Sasuke was commented on being able to hard-counter a technique that Nardo could not which really implies that Kaguya in that instant didn't even consider Sakura as she was concerned about being sealed at the time. She was also cornered by all 3 of them and couldn't dimension hop due to Kakashi's Kamui which left her susceptible to a blow from Sakura.



> Not really. Kaguya destroyed both Susanoos with 1 attack each.
> Also, as I said above, Sakura's feat is superior to Sasuke's as well, so who cares if Sasuke's PS feat is worst than Kakashi's or not. :carblush



 Except Kakashi hard-countered Kaguya's Chakra Arms whereas Sasuke couldn't. 

 Kakashi also blitzed Kaguya whereas Sasuke failed. 

 Okay, Black Zetsu also has superior feats than Sakura as well due to being able to kill 3 Eyed Juubidara while Sakura was effortlessly pushed back by a Weaker Juubidara. Let's not kid ourselves here.


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## StickaStick (May 14, 2015)

Rocky said:


> Kaguya was jobbing during her entire fight.
> 
> If they fought her in the BD, Kaguya shifts the dimension to the lava one and then comes back without them.
> 
> gg



I dunno about this. Kaguya is what she is. Her lack of battle astuteness (or just plain commons sense) is a part of her character. She would be just as unlikely to tactfully use her deminsional shifting ability in the BD because it's IC for her.

Also, you can hardly say she was jobbing in her attack speed or reactionary abilities, so I don't see how this takes away from Sakura (not sure if that was your intention or not).


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## Trojan (May 14, 2015)

> [=NarutoX28;53595855]No it's not considering Sasuke was commented on being able to hard-counter a technique that Nardo could not which really implies that Kaguya in that instant didn't even consider Sakura as she was concerned about being sealed at the time. She was also cornered by all 3 of them and couldn't dimension hop due to Kakashi's Kamui which left her susceptible to a blow from Sakura.


Wut?  
Sasuke's PS did NOT do any damage whatsoever to Kaguya (a weaker one I may add). On the other hand, Sakura's punch did to a stronger Kaguya. 


> Except Kakashi hard-countered Kaguya's Chakra Arms whereas Sasuke couldn't.


So? bluink 
Minato countered the Juubi's TBB at full power. So, he's stronger than all the SA and the Hokages at once?  


> Kakashi also blitzed Kaguya whereas Sasuke failed.


Kaguya was surprised by Kamui since she hadn't seen the Jutsu before. Tho, Sakura did not fail like Sasuke, so... 



> Okay, Black Zetsu also has superior feats than Sakura as well due to being able to kill 3 Eyed Juubidara while Sakura was effortlessly pushed back by a Weaker Juubidara. Let's not kid ourselves here.



Yes, Black Zetsu solos. 
He also made Sasuke his bitch had it not for Narudo saving his ass.


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## Trojan (May 14, 2015)

StickaStick said:


> I dunno about this. Kaguya is what she is. Her lack of battle astuteness (or just plain commons sense) is a part of her character. She would be just as unlikely to tactfully use her deminsional shifting ability in the BD because it's IC for her.
> 
> Also, you can hardly say she was jobbing in her attack speed or reactionary abilities, so I don't see how this takes away from Sakura (not sure if that was your intention or not).



That fight was full of BS and Pnj. that's much is obvious.


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## Deleted member 211714 (May 14, 2015)

Tobirama low-diffs. 
He tags her with a Bunshin and takes off the head with Hiraishingiri.


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## Trojan (May 14, 2015)

King Itachi said:


> Tobirama low-diffs.
> He tags her with a Bunshin and takes off the head with Hiraishingiri.



He well get smashed tho in the process.  
unfortunately for him, he is not an edo here. U_U


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## UchihaX28 (May 14, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Wut?
> Sasuke's PS did NOT do any damage whatsoever to Kaguya (a weaker one I may add). On the other hand, Sakura's punch did to a stronger Kaguya.



 Sakura's punch merely pushed her back. It never damaged her in the slightest. 



> So? bluink
> Minato countered the Juubi's TBB at full power. So, he's stronger than all the SA and the Hokages at once?



 Scan. I'm too lazy to check the circumstances of that situation.

 Sasuke and Kakashi both has PS and projectiles yet Kakashi managed to intercept Kaguya's chakra arms while Sasuke could not. Both were well-suited to counter it yet Kakashi only could.





> Kaguya was surprised by Kamui since she hadn't seen the Jutsu before. Tho, Sakura did not fail like Sasuke, so...



 Really? Kaguya had plenty of time to perceive Kakashi's movements, but still couldn't dodge. 

 Sakura failed to attack Juubidara while Sasuke chopped him in half. 





> Yes, Black Zetsu solos.
> He also made Sasuke his bitch had it not for Narudo saving his ass.



 There goes your credibility.


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## Deleted member 211714 (May 14, 2015)

Hussain said:


> He well get smashed tho in the process.
> unfortunately for him, he is not an edo here. U_U



Not really.
Nothing suggests that Sakura has the reaction speed to keep up with one of the best sensors in this series, alongside Bunshin/Hiraishin: two abilities that were shown to keep up with Juubito for some time. 

Unless you can show me feats - other than the known outlier - that indicate she can fight on such a level, I have no reason to believe that Sakura doesn't get taken down easily before Tobirama.


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## Trojan (May 14, 2015)

> [=NarutoX28;53595974]Sakura's punch merely pushed her back. It never damaged her in the slightest.


I am sure her horn being broken is a damaged.  
Link removed


> Scan. I'm too lazy to check the circumstances of that situation.
> 
> Sasuke and Kakashi both has PS and projectiles yet Kakashi managed to intercept Kaguya's chakra arms while Sasuke could not. Both were well-suited to counter it yet Kakashi only could.



Scan of Minato saving everyone's asses? 

and when he teleported everyone out of the barrier. 

Did Sasuke even attack her when she was using the tails and failed? 


> Really? Kaguya had plenty of time to perceive Kakashi's movements, but still couldn't dodge.
> 
> Sakura failed to attack Juubidara while Sasuke chopped him in half.



Plenty of time? Not really. 

chooped a weaker one tho. 



> There goes your credibility.



oh, ain't that cute.  
Link removed
Narudo solos.  



King Itachi said:


> Not really.
> Nothing suggests that Sakura has the reaction speed to keep up with one of the best sensors in this series, alongside Bunshin/Hiraishin: two abilities that were shown to keep up with Juubito for some time.
> 
> Unless you can show me feats - other than the known outlier - that indicate she can fight on such a level, I have no reason to believe that Sakura doesn't get taken down easily before Tobirama.



She punched Kaguya. 
Also, the clones are useless really since she destroyed several of the Juubi's clones with 1 punch. 

- her feat against Kakguya.  

Also, Tobirama's shunshin speed sucks, and that's why his attack can be countered as we have seen with Madara.


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## StickaStick (May 14, 2015)

@King Itachi

Would you be interested in feats showing her hanging with the God of the NV? And please don't give me any of this "outlier" nonsense. Either she did or she didn't. We don't get to decide what feats count and what don't; especially when speed feats are already so inconsistent in the manga canon to begin with across the board and we don't hold that against other characters in the BD.


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## UchihaX28 (May 15, 2015)

Hussain said:


> I am sure her horn being broken is a damaged.
> Link removed



 Fair enough. The question is whether she can hit any God Tier which she hasn't showcased any feats that he could do it on her own.




> Scan of Minato saving everyone's asses?
> 
> and when he teleported everyone out of the barrier.



 I asked for scan for the first one. The reasoning for that is so then I can easily understand the context of that scenario.

 The 2nd example was with Naruto's help due to his Chakra linkage.



> Did Sasuke even attack her when she was using the tails and failed?



 You mean Chakra Arms? I can't recall, but he was clearly shown unable to be able to do anything.




> Plenty of time? Not really.
> 
> chooped a weaker one tho.



 She did. We have a panel dedicated to Kakashi moving towards Kaguya before she was blitzed.

 Except Juubidara had access to one of the fastest techniques in the manga. The Rinnegan doesn't suddenly enhance the physical capabilities of Juubidara or his Limbo Clones, so Sakura was really pushed back by a Juubidara who was physically on par with the one Sasuke chopped in half. 





> oh, ain't that cute.
> Link removed
> Narudo solos.



 I was referring to you actually failing to refute my argument.

 Black Zetsu also had help from Kaguya who grabbed Nardo and Sauce.



> She punched Kaguya.
> Also, the clones are useless really since she destroyed several of the Juubi's clones with 1 punch.



 Because Juubi Clones are really strong. 



> - her feat against Kakguya.



 Did it with a lot of support from 3 God Tier ninja.



> Also, Tobirama's shunshin speed sucks, and that's why his attack can be countered as we have seen with Madara.



 Doesn't matter. His reaction feats and his clones implies he can use FTG to tag Sakura before she can even strike Tobirama.


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## Deleted member 211714 (May 15, 2015)

I often wonder if you're trolling, Elia. XD


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## Trojan (May 15, 2015)

King Itachi said:


> I often wonder if you're trolling, Elia. XD



Some times I wonder the same. 

---
anyway, I got tired now. 

NarutoX28

I might reply to you latter on, or I might not depending on if I remain interested over the night. 

or if I decided to open this thread again because usually if I close a Vs thread, I don't come back to it.


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## UchihaX28 (May 15, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Some times I wonder the same.
> 
> ---
> anyway, I got tired now.
> ...



 Naw, it's cool. I actually was done debating as well.


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## StarWanderer (May 15, 2015)

> Correct me if I'm mistaken but I believe it was Tobirama who said they (the Hokages) were brought back at virtually their "full power".



I thought he said they were close to their full power. And that seems to be true because of what we can see later.



> I also don't see what's so impressive about his striking speed. I grant you he was able to tag Juubito with his clone, but that was Juubito in his mindless form who might not have cared one way or another. Furthermore, Sakura has already demonstrated such speed feats as dodging Kaguya's chakra arms; which are no doubt representative of a greater striking speed than Tobirama is capable of.



Juubito wasnt "mindless" when Tobirama's clone reacted to exploding Gudoudama, send it back to Juubito and said few words to Juubito, who was just staying there, seemingly being unable to dodge it, or run away from it.

That entire "mindless Juubito" thing is very debatable. He seemed to control his Juubi chakra when he'd gone through Edo Hashirama and Tobirama. He just lost control after that and gain control again, while learning how to manipulate Gudoudama's offensive capabilities more effectively. Minato's words are not a very good proof. I havent noticed the difference in speed between the Juubito who was fighting both BM Naruto and EMS Sasuke and the Juubito who attacked both Hashirama and Tobirama.

Anyway, even that "mindless Juubito" is faster than Obito, but nevertheless, Edo Tobirama marked him.

So yeah - Edo Tobirama's striking speed and reaction speed is insane. Alive Tobirama's striking speed and reaction speed is super insane. 



> I would say the same thing right back at you except replace "she" with "he".



He has a ranged Suiton and kunai with which he can cut her to peaces. And he is fast enough to do that.


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## Shadow050 (May 19, 2015)

the idea of any battle witnessed Sakura defeating Tobirama is odd to me.

i'm seeing this as a stomp in Tobirama's favor - katsuyu present or not.

We've only "seen" Tobirama bested by an OFF PANEL "wtf" from madara.

Tobirama is one of the fastest Ninja the narutoverse has seen. he's smart as hell, and extremely quick to act, which also implies how well and quickly he plans. and WE KNOW the manga did a disservice to him and his skill... after all, he was hardly allowed to use the jutsus that he freakin' created.... not just edo tensei, but remember he created kage bunshin as well...

and we also know damn well he has a lot of chakra to spare.

Sakura wouldn't be able to win. If she doesn't have _*>Madara level BS or PnJ*_ in her favor she won't stand a chance - and since this is the battledome, i'm gonna assume that that she has no such plot induced advantages


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## adeshina365 (May 19, 2015)

Tobirama wins neg diff via speed blitz.


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## Speedyamell (May 15, 2017)

Sakura's analytic abilities are more than enough to handle tobirama's speed and evade his attacks.. after which she wtfstomps..katsuyu is not even needed tbh

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Mithos (May 15, 2017)

UchihaX28 said:


> ^ Pretty much this.
> 
> If Tobirama managed to tag Juubito with just a clone and tagged him on multiple occasions as well, I'm certain Sakura can easily be tagged and then be disposed of with a Suiton.



This logic doesn't work, because Tobirama "tagged" Juubito using teamwork. Remember: Sakura "tagged" Kaguya, too.


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## Akira1993 (May 15, 2017)

Tobirama wins mid difficulty.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Veracity (May 15, 2017)

Mithos said:


> This logic doesn't work, because Tobirama "tagged" Juubito using teamwork. Remember: Sakura "tagged" Kaguya, too.


Tobirama tagged JJ Obito without teamwork and if you're are gonna highlight the fact that he "lost half his body" like everyone always does then Tobirama can easily use a Bunshin in place to ensure he lands a hit. He's tagging Sakura's no matter what that's for sure.


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## Mithos (May 15, 2017)

Veracity said:


> Tobirama tagged JJ Obito without teamwork and if you're are gonna highlight the fact that he "lost half his body" like everyone always does then Tobirama can easily use a Bunshin in place to ensure he lands a hit. He's tagging Sakura's no matter what that's for sure.



I'm not disputing that Tobirama is going to hit Sakura. He will -- likely many times. 

But he's not easily hitting her and disposing of her because he touched JJ Obito.


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## Android (May 15, 2017)

Mithos said:


> This logic doesn't work, because Tobirama "tagged" Juubito using teamwork. Remember: Sakura "tagged" Kaguya, too.


It's not about who tagged who.
Tobirama reacted to JJ Obito's Shunshin and marked him in his back b4 he could touch.
Sakura didn't react to anything, she simply punched Kaguya when she was cornered by Naruto and Sasuke.
She was outclassed in CQC against Karui and was sent flying with a kick by Omoi, yet somehow she can keep up with people 10 tiers above her in speed ?


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## Veracity (May 15, 2017)

Mithos said:


> I'm not disputing that Tobirama is going to hit Sakura. He will -- likely many times.
> 
> But he's not easily hitting her and disposing of her because he touched JJ Obito.


What's stopping a Bunshin from rushing Sakura and placing a hand on her? It has a significant handspeed advantage and it doesn't have to worry about escaping anything seeing how it's a clone. The moment Tobirama tags Sakura once he gets an infinite amount of free tags. Sorry but I'm not seeing how it's going to be hard for Tobirama to touch Sakura.


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## Mithos (May 15, 2017)

Veracity said:


> What's stopping a Bunshin from rushing Sakura and placing a hand on her? It has a significant handspeed advantage and it doesn't have to worry about escaping anything seeing how it's a clone. The moment Tobirama tags Sakura once he gets an infinite amount of free tags. Sorry but I'm not seeing how it's going to be hard for Tobirama to touch Sakura.





Mithos said:


> I'm not disputing that Tobirama is going to hit Sakura. He will -- likely many times.
> 
> But he's not easily hitting her *and disposing of her* because he touched JJ Obito.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Jad (May 15, 2017)

GuidingThunder said:


> It's not about who tagged who.
> Tobirama reacted to JJ Obito's Shunshin and marked him in his back b4 he could touch.
> Sakura didn't react to anything, she simply punched Kaguya when she was cornered by Naruto and Sasuke.
> She was outclassed in CQC against Karui and was sent flying with a kick by Omoi, yet somehow she can keep up with people 10 tiers above her in speed ?


Oh but Juubito must be holding back because blippity bloopity bloo he could not tag SM Madara even with a surprise Hishagiri (weird name) at his blind spot using a faster attack than placing multiple tags.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Android (May 15, 2017)

Jad said:


> Oh but Juubito must be holding back because blippity bloopity bloo he could not tag SM Madara even with a surprise Hishagiri (weird name) at his blind spot using a faster attack than placing multiple tags.


Madara wasn't rushing Tobirama like JJ Obito did, try to grap the difference between reacting to someone's speed and enging with them in CQC 
Minato can react to A, what's next ? can he win a CQC fight against him as well ? 
Tobirama was still able to effortlessly react to Madara attacking him with his black rods and even had the upper hand in the last panel, he abviously lost because of the Limbo that moments later we found out that he was still roaming free and standing right next to Madara actually


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## Gohara (May 16, 2017)

Tobirama wins with mid to high (closer to high than mid) difficulty in my opinion.  Sakura is above average Kage level but Tobirama is amongst the most powerful Kages in the series being second only to Minato, Hashirama, Prime Sarutobi, and possibly Prime Onoki.


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## Speedyamell (May 16, 2017)

Gohara said:


> Tobirama wins with mid to high (closer to high than mid) difficulty in my opinion.  Sakura is above average Kage level but Tobirama is amongst the most powerful Kages in the series being second only to Minato, Hashirama, Prime Sarutobi, and possibly Prime Onoki.


You said "he is second to" and mentioned like 5 pple,and other than hype i havn't seen anything that puts him above sakura or sakura...he is definately above hokage kakashi tho


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## drew8324 (May 16, 2017)

Mugen explosive tags. Thats all that is needed


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## StandingMan (May 16, 2017)

Tobirama speed blitz.

Medium diff.


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## Speedyamell (May 16, 2017)

I don't know why people continously fail to grasp the concept of "speedblitz"which relies on neither power or speed alone,it deals with peeps above average speed which these two characters are with tobirama being faster tho and the ability to then end the fight with perhaps a single technique/jutsu hence the term "blitz"and in this fight i don't think anyone gets speedblitz since while tobirama is faster he lacks the fire power to "blitz" sakura,and while sakura blitzes shes not as fast,but disregading the speedblitzing crap,sakura imo inevitably wins,thanks to analytical,evasion skills,monstrous strenght/chakra control which gives her more than enough speed to hang on, can be used to leap impossible heights(for escaping perhaps),one shot on contact,one shot anything withing city block distance from her with her ground impact's dc,use of her own chakra as shield(sakura hiden),shockwave punch,also thanks to katsuyu(which might not be fast enough to catch tobirama,but can spread across the battle field acting as traps obstacles or to just simply absorb/ingest him(the way she did to protect people against pain,trust me they did not enter from her mouth its too tight,and we see them come out the same way as they are ejected from her body)and finally regeneration hax which keeps her going even if she takes damage..oh and she also has shizune's techniques(whatever those are).


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## Ryuzaki (May 16, 2017)

One-sided thread should have been closed a long time ago.


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