# Eight Man Squad vs Itachi



## KibaforHokage (Sep 14, 2013)

Location: Uchiha compound
Starting distance: 20 meters
Mindset: Eight man squad wants to capture Itachi and Itachi doesn't want to overuse MS
Knowledge: Manga up to that point

How would the situation be if Eight man squad made it before Sasuke?


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## Octavian (Sep 14, 2013)

they get schooled


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## ATastyMuffin (Sep 14, 2013)

I'm not really sure what having them together collectively accomplishes. Most of them are useless, and only Kakashi and Naruto can contribute - even then, barely, as Kakashi lacks the enormous chakra capacity he displays  for the duration of the War, and Naruto has yet to learn Sage Mode at this point. His strongest technique, _Wind Style: Rasenshuriken_, is close-quarters, inflicts damage to himself, and on top of all that cannot penetrate the Yata Mirror and leaves him wide open for a quick decapitation by Susano'o.

For the overall fight, I'd say Kakashi is the sole factor in preventing Itachi from going around using Shunshin at high speeds to rid most of the competition. However, knowing Kakashi's proficience in genjutsu, Itachi may opt to use Tsukuyomi to permanently rid of his intervention, and from there, it's all downhill for the Eight-Man squad. Most of the team, I doubt, can even react to the Uchiha, which means Sai, Kiba, Shino, Hinata, Akamaru, and Hinata will all be going down within a few moments. Sakura may last a fraction of a second longer - I give her this benefit of the doubt given she reacted to Satetsu - but finger genjutsu will easily clean up her and Yamato.

Naruto, we've already seen Itachi canonically beat, effortlessly, with Sharingan genjutsu. The Eight-Man squad is useless in the midst of the Kage-level shinobi.

The only obstacle Itachi may meet - and may bring about his end - is if Kakashi uses Kamui right from the start, recognizing the level of threat he's facing. However, it is unlikely given the Eight-Man squad's purpose is to capture the Uchiha.


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## kaminogan (Sep 14, 2013)

wait so MS abilitys are restricted?


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## Lawrence777 (Sep 14, 2013)

I think Kakashi is the main factor here. 

Assuming the battle went IC, Kakashi would repeatedly save himself with substitutions and spend his time trying to snipe or otherwise sneak attack Itachi with raikiri and the like.

Kakashi is very good at feint manuevers and I wouldn't put it past him to put Itachi in an inevadeable position at which point susanoo would come out.

Once susanoo does come out though, I don't think anyone will be able to dodge it for long.


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 15, 2013)

Wait, this is Kakashi (Immortal Arc)?

 Lol, they get schooled. Kakashi isn't even as strong as Base Hebi Sasuke who struggled in CQC in a potentially holding back Sick Itachi.


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## crisler (Sep 15, 2013)

Even if he's unwilling to spam MS, Itachi would murder the team horribly...

Kakashi is a big factor, especially now that Itachis' practically base...but I don't think Kakashi can protect others while protecting himself.

If by any chance the battleground is visually disturbed, by whatever means, the team will be destroyed


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 15, 2013)

NarutoX28 said:


> Wait, this is Kakashi (Immortal Arc)?
> 
> Lol, they get schooled. Kakashi isn't even as strong as Base Hebi Sasuke who struggled in CQC in a potentially holding back Sick Itachi.


Kakashi is better than Hebi Sasuke in sheer taijutsu, a full stat advantage then. And post timeskip, he was able to trade blow for blow with a non-MS Itachi if you remember.


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 15, 2013)

^ Kakashi honestly didn't do all that much from what I read through.

 Itachi was holding back a lot considering he was only using 30% chakra and even you should know that. Hebi Sasuke is almost in every way superior to Kakashi. I will give you the Taijutsu though I don't think the difference is as big as people make it out to be.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 15, 2013)

NarutoX28 said:


> ^ Kakashi honestly didn't do all that much from what I read through.


Other than equalling Itachi in Taijutsu, outsmarting him and generally holding his own?


> Itachi was holding back a lot considering he was only using 30% chakra and even you should know that. Hebi Sasuke is almost in every way superior to Kakashi. I will give you the Taijutsu though I don't think the difference is as big as people make it out to be.


Kakashi forms better battle strategies, his Sharingan usage is at least as good as Hebi Sasuke's, Kakashi has Kamui and can keep pace with 6 Gated Gai when it comes to speed.


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 15, 2013)

^ He was holding back a lot no doubt about that. Just making a bushin feint isn't enough. Itachi can do that to Kabuto, but that doesn't mean Itachi is suddenly equal or superior to Kabuto.

 Immortal Arc Kakashi can't keep up with 6th Gate Gai though. I know Kakashi against Obito can, but definitely not at that point unless Hebi Sasuke can suddenly move faster than 6 Gated Gai.

 Even then, if you want to include Kamui, Sasuke can simply keep his distance by using Chidori Nagashi or a a Raiton Sword. Even if part of Sasuke's body gets Kamui'd, he can just regenerate from it by shedding his skin.


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## DaVizWiz (Sep 15, 2013)

Kakashi should defeat him with Kamui.

The very fact he's unwilling to use MS means immediate Amaterasu is out, which means Kakashi casually manages to bunshin feint or dig for a leg snipe with kamui and eventual capture.

There's really no way he doesn't get a kamui snipe in. Naruto can summon 1,000 clones and a boss frog which provide a very dangerous distraction, aside from the minor distraction the other 6 members can provide.

Itachi is outnumbered by a large degree, and you can't be outnumbered against a Kamui user. He's captured or killed, whichever Kakashi prefers.


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 15, 2013)

^ Looks like he should've used Kamui on Kakuzu am I right? You make it sound so easy except it's not as he can fight Base Sasuke equally and clash with him and managed a kage bushin while holding back a bit. Itachi also caught Sasuke by a surprise genjutsu and we should know Sasuke's at least equal to Kakashi in Genjutsu if not, better as he broke through Tsukyomi while Kakashi has never been shown to be able to.

 Kakashi is never going to use Kamui on a tough opponent this far in the manga or he would've against Kakuzu. He could've potentially used Kamui on Hidan to Kumai his head lol.


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## DaVizWiz (Sep 15, 2013)

NarutoX28 said:


> ^ Looks like he should've used Kamui on Kakuzu am I right? You make it sound so easy except it's not as he can fight Base Sasuke equally and clash with him and managed a kage bushin while holding back a bit. Itachi also caught Sasuke by a surprise genjutsu and we should know Sasuke's at least equal to Kakashi in Genjutsu if not, better as he broke through Tsukyomi while Kakashi has never been shown to be able to.
> 
> Kakashi is never going to use Kamui on a tough opponent this far in the manga or he would've against Kakuzu. He could've potentially used Kamui on Hidan to Kumai his head lol.


Your entire argument goes against the basic logic that is Itachi's power scale. 

He eliminated a clan of high-powered Uchiha, he dropped Kakashi with a single Genjutsu, are you honestly suggesting that Kakashi would not utilize Kamui early in this battle?

Kakashi was facing 2 Akatsuki members with 3 Chunin. Both of which were immortal. Had he used kamui, he would have instantly been out of the fight with no real guarantee that he managed to kill one because he lacked chakra capacity and accuracy with the technique. Moreover, one can be revived by flying hearts, and the other's body parts can be stitched back together. Does it make much sense to attempt separating their body parts with dimension warps that he can only use on one of them? One dude's body is made of threads and contains 6 hearts, the other dude's body still operates when his head is clean off his body. 

Here, he's fighting one where he knows he can get an accurate shot, and he knows he has more backup if he should miss and fall down in exhaustion. Itachi is not immortal, a hit is a kill/capture for Kakashi, so he will use it.


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## Rain (Sep 15, 2013)

Even if you think Kakashi will use Kamui (protip - he won't), once Itachi  brings out Susano'o there really is nothing they can do.


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## DaVizWiz (Sep 15, 2013)

Rain said:


> Even if you think Kakashi will use Kamui (protip - he won't), once Itachi  brings out Susano'o there really is nothing they can do.


Other than Kamui him while he's in Susano, which is what will happen. 

He's likely mortally warped before even attempting to use it.


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## Sans (Sep 15, 2013)

Kakashi didn't use Kamui on Itachi with the odds (apparently) more stacked in his favour. He didn't use it against Kakuzu until pushed to the absolute brink of defeat. Against Deva, it was used so late as to prevent his defeat, and in fact contributed to his death.

Before Kakashi's stupendous growth during the War Arc, Kamui was far less likely to be utilised. Even an unwilling Itachi is likely to resort to the Mangekyou first, especially when facing eight people, with two of them posing reasonable threats to himself.


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## Ersa (Sep 15, 2013)

Itachi stomps them, he did trap Wind Arc Naruto just using a clone and some genjutsu and without killing intent. Immortals Arc Kakashi and Wind Arc Naruto are just on the border of Kage level, Itachi can easily deal with both of them at this point in the manga and then proceed to school each and every one of the other fodder with taijutsu.


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## Thunder (Sep 15, 2013)

Yeah, I don't think Kakashi's going to use Kamui during the early stages  of the fight. It's just horribly out of character for him at this  point. Not to mention, Kakashi wouldn't want to waste his trump card on a potential  clone. If Kamui "misses" then the Mangekyō Sharingan recoil will kick in. 

Kakashi really needs to remain at his peak here, so I'm not sure he would take that risk. As the backbone of the squad Kakashi's got to lead and  keep an eye on the others while protecting himself from Itachi's swift, pinpoint attacks. 

Itachi isn't  stupid. He can divert Kakashi's attention away from himself at any time by targeting one of the lower tiers. We've seen Kakuzu and Hidan employ this same strategy against Kakashi, for example. That's a lot for the Copy Ninja to deal with, especially in this  situation where the fight is likely to be more drawn out than usual  seeing how they can't go for a kill shot. 

Sure, weaker characters can cause an upset over a stronger opponent by working closely together, and let's be fair: Kakashi is one of those fighters who can hold his own against (and occasionally defeat) characters outside his tier. Whatever he lacks in raw power is made up for with cunning and a wide move pool, so I wouldn't underestimate him.

The problem is, though, match-ups like this become less simplistic (i.e. the group with the most fighters wins) once you closely examine the other factors. While in a sickly state and outnumbered, odds are you'll be more inclined to end things quickly, and it just so happens techniques like Amaterasu and Susanō are ideal for that purpose. The possibility that Itachi will power through these guys with the Mangekyō Sharingan can't be ignored.


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 15, 2013)

DaVizWiz said:


> Your entire argument goes against the basic logic that is Itachi's power scale.



 Itachi's just that good. (I kid, I kid.)



> He eliminated a clan of high-powered Uchiha, he dropped Kakashi with a single Genjutsu, are you honestly suggesting that Kakashi would not utilize Kamui early in this battle?



 Yes and Kakuzu along with Hidan killed Asuma and is part of the Akatsuki. Sorry, but Kakashi's most likely going to use Kamui when it's too late like when he did on Deva Path.



> Kakashi was facing 2 Akatsuki members with 3 Chunin. Both of which were immortal. Had he used kamui, he would have instantly been out of the fight with no real guarantee that he managed to kill one because he lacked chakra capacity and accuracy with the technique. Moreover, one can be revived by flying hearts, and the other's body parts can be stitched back together. Does it make much sense to attempt separating their body parts with dimension warps that he can only use on one of them? One dude's body is made of threads and contains 6 hearts, the other dude's body still operates when his head is clean off his body.



 I concede to the first part, but if he lacks the chakra capacity, it's not silly to say he won't use Kumai and if he does, he can get caught in a Bushin Feint and literally screw his chances. He's not going to use Kumai on such a Skilled fighter.

 Also, no Hidan can't operate for shit without his head. His head will be the only thing moving in the other dimension.

 As for Kakuzu, well yeah, but anything to increase their chances. With 3 hearts left, he can easily Kumai one of the hearts. Even then, with being outmatched by Kakuzu's true form, he would've considered Kumai, but he didn't. Might as well do something useful like he did against Deva Path, am I right?



> Here, he's fighting one where he knows he can get an accurate shot, and he knows he has more backup if he should miss and fall down in exhaustion. Itachi is not immortal, a hit is a kill/capture for Kakashi, so he will use it.



 Unforuntately, a lot of the guys can be countered by Basic Genjutsu. They're up against a guy with Genjutsu tricks and sneaky feints. He can pull up a Kage Bushin without Hebi Sasuke noticing who has faster speed and reflexes than Kakashi. It's not silly to say that Kakashi won't use Kumai based on that. I mean, Naruto was already screwed by Basic Genjutsu. Not silly to say the others would as well. Sai was caught by Basic Genjutsu by Sasuke. Hinata's the only one who will break free from it, but who's to say Itachi wouldn't target her if she breaks one of the guy's out of Genjutsu. 

 Either way, Kakashi is screwed. Itachi's simply better in every single thing compared to him.


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## Turrin (Sep 15, 2013)

Itachi would get raped very badly against the 8-man Squad. People saying otherwise are seriously underestimating the 8-man squad. 

8-man squad can render Itachi's Sharingan completely useless with Smoke Bombs + Shino's Bug Jamming. While Kakashi, Nin-Dogs, and Kiba can guide 8-man squads attacks with their nose. This is made even more effective considering the amount of Bushin that 8-man squad can use. This would completely shut down Itachi's ability to use Genjutsu, Amaterasu, or hell land any effective attack on 8-man squad in general. 

Itachi would also quickly be forced to use Susano'o to defend against attacks like Rarikiri, Rasengan Barrage, Cerberous, etc... However Yamato can use Mokuton to rip Itachi out of Susano'o in the same way Gaara uses his sand, from there 8-man Squad could finish Itachi off, but since they are fighting to capture Shino can use his bugs to chakra drain the little chakra Itachi would have left after using Susano'o whil ill and Kakashi can Kamui Itachi's arm off if he wants to. From there Yamato binds Itachi in Mokuton and 8-man squad calls it a day, mission accomplished. 

People need to remember that Kakashi, Jiraiya, and Tsunade despite having a-lot of knowledge on Itachi & MS between the 3 of them thought 8-man squad could indeed accomplish their mission and on top of that they were prepared for potentially another Akatsuki member like Kisame to be there. So people are way underestimating 8-man squad if they think sick Itachi has any chance at winning this.


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## Bonly (Sep 15, 2013)

Itachi wins this more times then not. He simple outclasses all of them and the only ones that can somewhat do something is Kakashi and Naruto. The rest of them are to slow to hit him or lack the fire power to get through his defense. He can make clones so fast that a Sharingan can't even see it be made which means they won't see it coming either which increase his chances to take them out. With Ama to deal with Kakashi who likely isn't fast enough to avoid it, the rest go down shortly after.


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## -JT- (Sep 15, 2013)

Restrict Itachi and give the Squad war feats, and then we may have a match.


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## Garcher (Sep 15, 2013)

Itachi wins this


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 15, 2013)

Bonly said:


> Itachi wins this more times then not. He simple outclasses all of them and the only ones that can somewhat do something is Kakashi and Naruto. The rest of them are to slow to hit him or lack the fire power to get through his defense. *  He can make clones so fast that a Sharingan can't even see it be made which means they won't see it coming either * which increase his chances to take them out. With Ama to deal with Kakashi who likely isn't fast enough to avoid it, the rest go down shortly after.



 Exactly which means Kakashi is likely to screw up and use Kumai if people are saying "he'll use it".


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## Bonly (Sep 15, 2013)

NarutoX28 said:


> Exactly which means Kakashi is likely to screw up and use Kumai if people are saying "he'll use it".



Now that I think about it I messed that part up a bit. With Hinata around with the Byakugan she can see the clone popping up so with her warning, they might be able to defend themselves. Unless Hinata is dead by that point in time that is.


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 15, 2013)

^ Can't believe I didn't notice that. I don't know whether that's possible considering the clone can pop up really quickly. I think it may be too late to defend against it considering Kakashi doesn't have defensive capabilities like Hebi Sasuke does.

 Who know though.


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## kaminogan (Sep 15, 2013)

hinata sees itachi and warns everyone,

naruto charges at him, itachi dodges however and taijutsus the hell outa him

but then a bunch of bugs surround itachi and crushes him,

but it was a clone! 

kakashi scans the area, hinata scans the area, kiba scans the area,

they find itachi who attacks shino then goes back,

but before he could do that a kakashi comes behind him and prepares to slash him with a kunai,

itachi blocks with his own and throws three shuriken point blank,

it was a lightning clone however but since itachi wasnt touching it he dosent get shocked,

in the commotion yamato makes a mokuton cage around itachi, who then prepares to amaterasu out of there,

its to late however as kakashi comes in front of him with raikiri, itachi dodges but barely,  he gets ready as naruto clones flood the area, he trys his best to fight the clones  and as soon as he thinks he gots this,

the wood beaneath him throw him into the air and he dosent have time to dodge the double gatsuga,

itachi however activates his soosano protecting himself,

itachi looks around, there are still some clones in the area, 

itachi swings his sword unfortunateley he dosent hit anybody but manages to cut down every tree,

kakashi however somehow entered his soosano! (hiding like a mole tech) and prepares to use a kamui,


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 15, 2013)

^ A Mokuton Cage won't even warrant an Amaterasu. Itachi can just jump out like Sasuke did. Not only that, Sick Itachi is quicker than Base Hebi Sasuke, so I doubt he'd get caught.

 His style is to use Genjutsu at the start, esp. w/ many guys who can't even counter Genjutsu. The only one who have the capabilities to do it are Hinata and Kakashi, but Hinata is going to be blitzed rather easily. Kakashi, however, is just plain inferior to Sick Itachi in every single way, so it won't go well for him.


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## Jagger (Sep 15, 2013)

kaminogan said:


> wait so MS abilitys are restricted?


From what I understood was that Itachi doesn't want to overuse his MS abilities (blindness, most likely), but can still use them only if he's pushed far enough.


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## kaminogan (Sep 15, 2013)

^ well if thats the case then it dosent change much, he would taijutsu anybody who trys to bait him,

and soosano incase he cant dodge an attack(see above).


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## kaminogan (Sep 15, 2013)

NarutoX28 said:


> ^ A Mokuton Cage won't even warrant an Amaterasu. Itachi can just jump out like Sasuke did. Not only that, Sick Itachi is quicker than Base Hebi Sasuke, so I doubt he'd get caught.
> 
> His style is to use Genjutsu at the start, esp. w/ many guys who can't even counter Genjutsu. The only one who have the capabilities to do it are Hinata and Kakashi, but Hinata is going to be blitzed rather easily. Kakashi, however, is just plain inferior to Sick Itachi in every single way, so it won't go well for him.



hes trying to save his sharingan so genjutsu at the start is unlikely, plus he requires eye contact for it to work,

also wasnt his limit 3 tsukiyomis per day?

anywhays he dosent need tsukiyomi to win.


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 15, 2013)

kaminogan said:


> hes trying to save his sharingan so genjutsu at the start is unlikely, plus he requires eye contact for it to work,
> 
> also wasnt his limit 3 tsukiyomis per day?
> 
> anywhays he dosent need tsukiyomi to win.



 Are you implying he can't use Basic Sharingan Genjutsu? That's preposterous.

 He's saving his MS in this case, not regular Sharingan which hardly puts any strain on his body. He casually uses Sharingan Genjutsu every time he's used it.


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## Ghost (Sep 16, 2013)

Itachi low diffs.


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## Antos (Sep 16, 2013)

Bonly said:


> Now that I think about it I messed that part up a bit. With Hinata around with the Byakugan she can see the clone popping up so with her warning, they might be able to defend themselves. Unless Hinata is dead by that point in time that is.


We are talking about the guy who found blindspots in the rinnegan field of vision.


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## Bonly (Sep 16, 2013)

NarutoX28 said:


> ^ Can't believe I didn't notice that. I don't know whether that's possible considering the clone can pop up really quickly. I think it may be too late to defend against it considering Kakashi doesn't have defensive capabilities like Hebi Sasuke does.
> 
> Who know though.



It depends on how quick Hinata is to warn the others as well as the clones speed as well as how the natural reactions of the one being attacked are. I can only see Kakashi, Yamato, and maybe Naruto being able to successfully defend themselves while the others are 50/50 or get outright blitzed. 



Antos said:


> We are talking about the guy who found blindspots in the rinnegan field of vision.



True but the clone shall still be seen.


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## Antos (Sep 17, 2013)

Bonly said:


> It depends on how quick Hinata is to warn the others as well as the clones speed as well as how the natural reactions of the one being attacked are. I can only see Kakashi, Yamato, and maybe Naruto being able to successfully defend themselves while the others are 50/50 or get outright blitzed.
> 
> 
> 
> True but the clone shall still be seen.



Well think for a second Even Sasuke wasn't able to see the clone that was created in front of him with his Sharingan until it was attacking.

I see the fight going as Naruto, Kakashi, and yamato vs itachi while his clone fights the others the very clone that was beat naruto while only wanting to talk.


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 17, 2013)

^ That's also very true. Sad day when people believe Kage Bushins are weak.


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## Ennoia (Sep 17, 2013)

Turrin said:


> Itachi would get raped very badly against the 8-man Squad. People saying otherwise are seriously underestimating the 8-man squad.
> 
> 8-man squad can render Itachi's Sharingan completely useless with Smoke Bombs + Shino's Bug Jamming. While Kakashi, Nin-Dogs, and Kiba can guide 8-man squads attacks with their nose. This is made even more effective considering the amount of Bushin that 8-man squad can use. This would completely shut down Itachi's ability to use Genjutsu, Amaterasu, or hell land any effective attack on 8-man squad in general.
> 
> ...



I agree with this for the most part although it seems a bit simplified. The number of opponents and skillsets Itachi is facing puts him in a very bad position with which I cannot see him winning in.


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## Trojan (Sep 17, 2013)

Itachi loses. he's weak against a lot of people at the same time! 
I don't even see him winning against kakashi & Yamato!


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 17, 2013)

Elia said:


> Itachi loses. he's weak against a lot of people at the same time!
> I don't even see him winning against kakashi & * Yamato! *


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## Ennoia (Sep 17, 2013)

I would agree with Elia there and argue that Itachi loses to those two unless he uses Amaterasu to start the fight. With appropriate knowledge of Amaterasu I would think Yamato and Kakashi can beat Itachi. Kakashi felt that with the help of Naruto he could best Itachi (with only knowledge of Tsuku) so with someone like Yamato I think it is possible that they could win and Kakashi would definitely think so as well.


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## Trojan (Sep 17, 2013)

you do know Itachi's chakra is as much as that of a pregnant woman, right? 
and it's kinda pathetic that you made Yamato's name in bold as If I said he can do it alone.


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## Trojan (Sep 17, 2013)

Ennoia said:


> I would agree with Elia there and argue that Itachi loses to those two unless he uses Amaterasu to start the fight. With appropriate knowledge of Amaterasu I would think Yamato and Kakashi can beat Itachi. Kakashi felt that with the help of Naruto he could best Itachi (with only knowledge of Tsuku) so with someone like Yamato I think it is possible that they could win and Kakashi would definitely think so as well.



Kakashi can see if the Amatersu is coming via his sharingan. Also, I think it worth to mention
that

1- 
Yamato can take the Amaterasu away as he did there, and as what Kabuto did.

2- he can use the wood from his body like this



So, perhaps even if he was hit by the Amaterasu he can take it away, just like what the
Juubi did with Naruto and Sasuke's attack. 

Also, there is Hinata and she can tell everyone whenever Itachi tried to put his chakra in his eye.


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## Ennoia (Sep 17, 2013)

Elia said:


> Kakashi can see if the Amatersu is coming via his sharingan. Also, I think it worth to mention
> that
> 
> 1-
> ...



Problem is that even though Kakashi can see chakra I dont think at this point he has seen Amaterasu to know it would be coming at him for him to know to dodge; so that would probably be instant death. The same could be argued for Yamato considering Itachi used Amaterasu and put a hole in a wall from the initial blast so Yamato might have a hole put in him as well. Almost anyone without knowledge on the jutsu will likely be hit by it, whether or not they survive after that is another story, people like Yamato and Oro are hard to find.

So majority of my thoughts comes with the fact that Itachi will not start a fight with Amaterasu or that his opponents must in some way know about it in order to really give a situation. I can see the team of 8 taking it in most situations and I can see Yamato and Kakashi soloing with the right stipulations as well with Amaterasu being a wildcard.


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 17, 2013)

Elia said:


> you do know Itachi's chakra is as much as that of a pregnant woman, right?
> and it's kinda pathetic that you made Yamato's name in bold as If I said he can do it alone.



 His stamina mainly depletes with the usage of the Mangekyo Sharingan.

 Itachi is more proficient than Kakashi is at using the Sharingan, so it's not ridiculous to say he can outmatch Kakashi in terms of stamina due to chakra consumption. 

 Plus, Yamato isn't catching a Sick Itachi if he couldn't even catch Beginning Part 2 Hebi Sasuke successfully. Itachi traps most guys in a genjutsu, blitzes Hinata and the usage of Kage Bushins where even a Sharingan can't notice it will utterly destroy Kakashi. Kakashi has no real defensive capabilities up close and Yamato's defensive capabilities pale in comparison to Sasuke's due to the fact that it takes a while to make it actually successfully. In an instant, a Kage Bushin will blitz him and destroy him and Kakashi won't even seen it coming. 

 As for Amaterasu, it doesn't matter considering Kakashi can't dodge it anyways.


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## Rain (Sep 18, 2013)

TorJan soloing these threads as always with his undefeatable manga-supported arguments


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## Addy (Sep 18, 2013)

8 man fodder squad? 

come on


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## Rosencrantz (Sep 20, 2013)

Can't see Itachi winning. This team is underestimated. Let's just see what Itachi can actually do outside of the Mangekyou.

*Taijutsu wise:*

Most efficient way for him to lose the fight in seconds. Kakashi was holding his own in CQC against him. Itachi had a slight edge but neither were able to land a blow on the other. So adding in 7 other shinobi most of which are quite efficient at taijutsu along with other various kinds of ninjutsu, then you have Itachi being kept busy by Itachi for any number of things to catch and put him down. Other shinobi can also hold their own 1 on 1 to make room for someone to come finish him off while he is distracted. Naruto can use Kage bunshins to supplement his taijutsu to hold his own with Itachi's. Yamato can use mokuton combined, taijutsu, and mokuton bunshin to pressure Itachi's taijutsu skill to make an opening for someone. Basically, it is suicide for him to do this for more than a couple of seconds.

*Ninjutsu:*

I suppose this will have to be broken up into multiple categories.

_Katons_: Sakura, Naruto, and Kakashi have already shown to be able to dodge his katons. Yamato, Sai, and Kiba/Akamaru are faster than Sakura so they should have no problem dodging as well. Shino will stay long range anyway so he should be fine and he has bunshin feints too.  Hinata can likely stay back and check for genjutsu with her byakugan so she should be fine but if she does get in harm's way, numerous shinobi on the battlefield can use their speed and/or bunshins to save her. Kakashi and Yamato can use suitons to defeat his katons and if Naruto is added to the mix, the suiton fuuton combination attack can immediately put Itachi back on the defensive with such a vastly more powerful jutsu. Kakashi also has his doton wall along with Yamato's mokuton for defense.

_Bunshins_: With a sharingan and byakugan on the 8 man squad, any exploding bunshins should be able to be spotted. Even when Kakashi was hit by the blast, he seemed to be relatively okay afterwards. Naruto and Kakashi are better with bunshin feints than Itachi so they should trump him when it comes to those. Itachi can not afford to try and spam either. He tends to use 1-2 bunshins per fight and they should drain his chakra quickly.

_Suitons_: Avoided or countered by Kakashi's suitons/Yamato's doton/mokuton.


*Genjutsu:*

Essentially three ways for him to cast genjutsu: sharingan, crow, and finger. Finger has caught one of the worst genjutsu shinobi in the manga. Making it essentially featless. He gave his crow to Naruto. With knowledge they may try to avoid eye contact. As Kakashi showed, he can use a bunshin feint and make him cast a genjutsu on a bunshin. Naruto can do something similar as can Yamato, Shino, or Sai since these are all bunshin users. Sai and Shino will also likely be keeping it mid-long range, outside of Itachi's shown genjutsu range. Same goes for Yamato for that matter. Kakashi can also avoid eye contact effectively like Gai and can potentially break out on his own with his sharingan. Shinobi like Hinata will also be out of range. Lucky for Kiba/Akamaru they use smoke bombs and rely on smell to find their opponents on many occasions so they should be efficient at avoiding eye contact. Hinata can make sure no one gets into a genjutsu and can inform Kakashi or Yamato if someone does caught.

All in all his base arsenal is something that Kakashi by himself can deal with. Naruto by himself can deal with it as well IF AND ONLY IF, he keeps Kage Bunshins on the field to avoid genjutsu like he previously told Itachi he could do. With Kakashi as field commander, he should recognize this advantage just as Naruto did and can tell Naruto to keep them on the field. But if these two can hold their own on their own, then of course putting them together alone will wreck Base Itachi. He needs the Mangeykou to compete against the whole team.


*Mangekyou Sharingan:*

*Tsukiyomi:* See genjutsu section. They can avoid eye contact. If someone is hit, it is very well a bunshin. Kakashi's Mangekyou also may be able to put up some serious resistance. Risky gambit for Itachi here because the two targets that he should use it on (Naruto/Kakashi) are the best at bunshin feints on the team and two of the best in the manga. It might be safer to attempt it on Yamato or Sai however Sai will be in the air and Yamato is long range so he would have to get past Naruto, Kakashi, Kiba/Akamaru, Sai and Yamato's long range assault, and Shino's insects to reach Yamato. If it hits someone, it would likely be a waste or it would hit a target that isn't worth as much like a Kiba or a Sakura.

*Amaterasu:* Amaterasu seemingly needs to choose a single target and requires a lot of focus and some prep for Itachi to unleash it. With all of these attacks coming at him, I doubt he gets the focus to use since Susano will need to be used to block some of these attacks. If he gets it off, who does he use it on? Kakashi? A potential Kamui or bunshin feint could make him waste an amaterasu shot. Naruto? Bunshins are still a factor here. With only a couple shots to utilize, he might miss waste them trying to take down a Naruto or a Kakashi but a Yamato and Sai are probably the next best bets and rely on less of a risk.

*Susano:* At this point if Susano comes out in its entirety, Kakashi will have Naruto use TKB to hide his teammates, so they can regroup and figure out a course of action against this entity surrounding Itachi. Itachi will be on his last legs however and should collapse shortly after using Susano. An underground strategy may work to finish off Itachi or using a Kamui to create a giant hole in the jutsu to get inside Susano and finish off an almost dead Itachi.


If you guys actually suffered through my entire post, notice that I made the team EXTREMELY DEFENSIVE, and yet they still win but with some a difficulty. With constant attacks on Itachi, I think Susano will have to be used quickly if he doesn't want to die within the first few minutes.


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 20, 2013)

^ 

 I highly doubt Kakashi would hold his own for that long in a pure Taijutsu fight esp. with feints and the fact that Partial CS Sasuke struggled against Itachi and he most likely holding back a bit.

 I honestly don't see anything that suggests Itachi was going all out in that fight. He practically smiled when Naruto just Rasengan'd him.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 20, 2013)

Restrict Susano'o, and probably Amaterasu too. Otherwise Itachi sweeps them quickly.


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## Ersa (Sep 20, 2013)

Itachi could probably take down Immortals Arc Kakashi and Yamato with just his base arsenal.

Actually he could probably school Yamato with taijutsu alone.


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## katanalauncher (Sep 20, 2013)

If they fight in neutral position, yeah Itachi could win in base unless Kakashi use kamui.
But Itachi doesn't have much intel on the team while the team have intel on most of his abilities, Hinato and Kiba can help the team make a jump on him.


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## Rosencrantz (Sep 22, 2013)

NarutoX28 said:


> ^
> 
> I highly doubt Kakashi would hold his own for that long in a pure Taijutsu fight esp. with feints and the fact that Partial CS Sasuke struggled against Itachi and he most likely holding back a bit.
> 
> I honestly don't see anything that suggests Itachi was going all out in that fight. He practically smiled when Naruto just Rasengan'd him.


Then you probably should before responding. Makes you look silly.

Itachi has never tricked Kakashi with bunshin feints. On both occasions they have fought, Kakashi has tricked Itachi with bunshin feints. In a battle of feints, Kakashi is more likely to do it to Itachi than the other way around. Kakashi is more skilled in taijutsu than Sasuke was back then. Poor argument.

So if you smile in a fight that means you aren't serious? Ha ok. He smiled cause his job was to buy time. He accomplished his goal.



Grimmjowsensei said:


> Restrict Susano'o, and probably Amaterasu too. Otherwise Itachi sweeps them quickly.


So Base Itachi with Tsukiyomi? Hilarious. Kakashi arguably solos Base Itachi. Itachi will need EVERYTHING to stand a chance. Itachi uses Amaterasu on one target at a time. Bunshin users like Naruto, Kakashi, Yamato, and Sai are amaterasu's worst nightmare.



Kyokan said:


> Itachi could probably take down Immortals Arc Kakashi and Yamato with just his base arsenal.
> 
> Actually he could probably school Yamato with taijutsu alone.


And this is why people hate Itachi fans. Base Itachi defeating Kakashi and Yamato at the same time and beating Yamato with just taijutsu. No way in hell. Base Itachi loses to Kakashi. Especially with Kamui as an option.



katanalauncher said:


> If they fight in neutral position, yeah Itachi could win in base unless Kakashi use kamui.
> But Itachi doesn't have much intel on the team while the team have intel on most of his abilities, Hinato and Kiba can help the team make a jump on him.


Itachi isn't beating this team in base. Not even close. Again Kakashi alone would force Mangekyou usage. If Naruto isn't retarded, he would too by himself.


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 22, 2013)

Rosencrantz said:


> Then you probably should before responding. Makes you look silly.



 Lol, I admit, I only read a small chunk of it.



> Itachi has never tricked Kakashi with bunshin feints. On both occasions they have fought, Kakashi has tricked Itachi with bunshin feints. In a battle of feints, Kakashi is more likely to do it to Itachi than the other way around. Kakashi is more skilled in taijutsu than Sasuke was back then. Poor argument.



 Mainly because he's never tried. Hebi Sasuke is both quicker and has higher reaction speed than Kakashi yet he wasn't able to see the Kage Bushin. Not only that, Kakashi has no way to defend himself like Hebi Sasuke does which practically just screws him over. Kakashi more skilled than Sasuke in Taijutsu? That could work, but Sasuke constantly improves meaning his Taijutsu isn't what it was at the start. Kakashi's improvements are fairly small in terms of speed and Taijutsu until the Shinobi Arc.



> So if you smile in a fight that means you aren't serious? Ha ok. He smiled cause his job was to buy time. He accomplished his goal.



 He just wasn't trying. He tried no feints at all, no Kage Bushins, and the fact that he didn't even out speed Kakashi implies that. Sick Itachi is better in every regard according to the Data Book.



> So Base Itachi with Tsukiyomi? Hilarious. Kakashi arguably solos Base Itachi. Itachi will need EVERYTHING to stand a chance. Itachi uses Amaterasu on one target at a time. Bunshin users like Naruto, Kakashi, Yamato, and Sai are amaterasu's worst nightmare.



 How so? He'll quickly detect Naruto's bushin and catch those guys in a genjutsu. This is basic stuff man. He doesn't even need Tsukyomi.




> And this is why people hate Itachi fans. Base Itachi defeating Kakashi and Yamato at the same time and beating Yamato with just taijutsu. No way in hell. Base Itachi loses to Kakashi. Especially with Kamui as an option.



 Sasuke did the same to Sai and Yamato and he's far superior to him How is this ridiculous?




> Itachi isn't beating this team in base. Not even close. Again Kakashi * alone would force Mangekyou usage.* If * Naruto isn't retarded, he would too by himself. *


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## Rosencrantz (Sep 22, 2013)

NarutoX28 said:


> Mainly because he's never tried. Hebi Sasuke is both quicker and has higher reaction speed than Kakashi yet he wasn't able to see the Kage Bushin. Not only that, Kakashi has no way to defend himself like Hebi Sasuke does which practically just screws him over. Kakashi more skilled than Sasuke in Taijutsu? That could work, but Sasuke constantly improves meaning his Taijutsu isn't what it was at the start. Kakashi's improvements are fairly small in terms of speed and Taijutsu until the Shinobi Arc.
> 
> 
> He just wasn't trying. He tried no feints at all, no Kage Bushins, and the fact that he didn't even out speed Kakashi implies that. Sick Itachi is better in every regard according to the Data Book.
> ...


He never tried? Itachi never said this. Your claim is baseless. Would you like me to arbitrarily start saying that Naruto and Kakashi never tried as well? You mean when Sasuke was distracted by 50 shuriken? Per the databook Sasuke/Kakashi have similar speed/reactions actually. No way to defend himself? Kakashi and Hebi Sasuke have completely different fighting styles. Kakashi can defend himself. And please stop with the arbitrary claims. Per the databook Kakashi has 4.5 and Sasuke has 3.5. Discussing Sasuke is meaningless in this fight however. We are talking about Kakashi against Itachi. And Kakashi showed to be able to force somewhat of a draw in taijutsu with Itachi.

Kakashi used no doton wall, suitons, or any raiton. Does that mean he wasn't trying? You don't have to use every jutsu in your arsenal for someone to be trying. Also some of the fight was off panel. We do not know what they used entirely. Out speed? You do realize that maybe Itachi did not blitz Kakashi because he can't right? Common sense. Being faster does not mean you can blitz. Read up on your databook. It proves you wrong.

Rinnengan, Sharingan, and Byakugan can't tell the difference between Kage Bunshin and original. So no. And Itachi can only hit one person at a time with genjutsu and he can only use one genjutsu at a time.

Sasuke did not defeat Yamato. Yamato was forced to protect Sakura. Then he got himself out of his predicament and admitted he was not going all out. So Sasuke failed to defeat a holding back Yamato. Sai never attacked him. He was holding his arm and talking to him. Sai is a long range fighter. He used no ink summons and Sasuke knocked him unconscious. That's like defeating Itachi without his sharingan or Naruto without Kage Bunshins or any of his modes. That's not impressive compared to defeating them at full power. Same situation here. So again, Base Itachi defeating Kakashi and Yamato at the same time and defeating Yamato with just taijutsu is freaking laughable.


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 22, 2013)

Rosencrantz said:


> He never tried? Itachi never said this. Your claim is baseless. Would you like me to arbitrarily start saying that Naruto and Kakashi never tried as well? You mean when Sasuke was distracted by 50 shuriken? Per the databook Sasuke/Kakashi have similar speed/reactions actually. No way to defend himself? Kakashi and Hebi Sasuke have completely different fighting styles. Kakashi can defend himself. And please stop with the arbitrary claims. Per the databook Kakashi has 4.5 and Sasuke has 3.5. Discussing Sasuke is meaningless in this fight however. We are talking about Kakashi against Itachi. And Kakashi showed to be able to force somewhat of a draw in taijutsu with Itachi.



 Are you also implying Kisame tried against Gai's Team?

 And yes, Sasuke wasn't able to notice the Kage Bushin meaning that after that 50 shuriken clash which Sick Itachi was superior because he didn't use ninjutsu to throw the shurikens and still managed to sneak a Kage Bushin shows a feat of speed. Sorry, but Kakashi isn't noticing that clone.

 As for Databook, I'm not making any baseless claims here. Sasuke continues to grow stronger and stronger in every aspect each fight. That's practically a fact.

 As for Kakashi drawing with Itachi in CQC, not even if we really want to go by Databook. Sasuke's speed is higher than Kakashi's considering he can blitz Deidara, a guy in the 4.5 speed tier and Sick Itachi holding back, was slightly outspeeding him. So no, Kakashi won't keep up with Itachi at all.



> Kakashi used no doton wall, suitons, or any raiton. Does that mean he wasn't trying? You don't have to use every jutsu in your arsenal for someone to be trying. Also some of the fight was off panel. We do not know what they used entirely. Out speed? You do realize that maybe Itachi did not blitz Kakashi because he can't right? Common sense. Being faster does not mean you can blitz. Read up on your databook. It proves you wrong.



 Obviously not. Using lots of jutsus like that will be a waste on an adept fighter like Itachi considering he's a Genjutsu and Feint master as well as the fact that Kakashi's stamina isn't that high.

 And no lol. Not even, not even. Do you know Itachi has a 5 in speed and can outspeed Sasuke, a guy who can blitz a guy in the 4.5 speed tier? Sorry, but Kakashi hasn't shown that at all, even against a guy in the 4 speed tier lol.



> Rinnengan, Sharingan, and Byakugan can't tell the difference between Kage Bunshin and original. So no. And Itachi can only hit one person at a time with genjutsu and he can only use one genjutsu at a time.



 Byakugan can. Neji couldn't b/c Naruto puts equal amt's of chakra in all his clones. That's a given. Sasuke never said he couldn't tell which was the clone, he just said he couldn't see him create a Kage Bushin. 



> Sasuke did not defeat Yamato. Yamato was forced to protect Sakura. Then he got himself out of his predicament and admitted he was not going all out. So Sasuke failed to defeat a holding back Yamato. Sai never attacked him. He was holding his arm and talking to him. Sai is a long range fighter. He used no ink summons and Sasuke knocked him unconscious. That's like defeating Itachi without his sharingan or Naruto without Kage Bunshins or any of his modes. That's not impressive compared to defeating them at full power. Same situation here. So again, Base Itachi defeating Kakashi and Yamato at the same time and defeating Yamato with just taijutsu is freaking laughable.



 Sai does have Taijutsu feats, being superior to Naruto in that regard.

 Also, draw back

 Yes, Yamato and Sai sure had this situation handled . 

draw back

 Oh yeah, Yamato, cheap move. Thank god the almighty Sasuke dodged that. Goes to show how awesome Yamato is .

 When did Yamato state that he held back?

 And well, ofc he knocked him unconscious. That just just means Chidori Nagashi is just that good. Is Itachi one shotting most of the 8 man squad suddenly means he cheated?

 Stop w/ your funny pitiful excuses.

 Also:



> Itachi isn't beating this team in base. Not even close. Again Kakashi alone would force Mangekyou usage. * If Naruto isn't retarded, he would too by himself. *





 I'm being dead srs, but please explain yourself here.


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 23, 2013)

^ Pics don't work.


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## Rosencrantz (Sep 23, 2013)

NarutoX28 said:


> Are you also implying Kisame tried against Gai's Team?
> 
> And yes, Sasuke wasn't able to notice the Kage Bushin meaning that after that 50 shuriken clash which Sick Itachi was superior because he didn't use ninjutsu to throw the shurikens and still managed to sneak a Kage Bushin shows a feat of speed. Sorry, but Kakashi isn't noticing that clone.
> 
> ...


Yes clearly Kisame did try.

You clearly didn't read what I said. Kakashi doesn't have to match him shuriken for shuriken. He can simply run back and go on the defensive. Doton underground. Doton wall. He has a different fighting style than Sasuke. He doesn't have to do the same thing Sasuke did.

Do you know what constants are? Do you not understand the most basic of mathematics? I can tell this is going no where with you unfortunately.

The feat happened. You say Kakashi wouldn't keep up with Itachi. The manga disagrees with you. You're wrong. Sorry dude. Kakashi kept up with Itachi on both occasions. And for the record, Sasuke never bltized Deidara.

Then you see the fault in your logic.

Did you know Kakashi kept up with Itachi and reacted to his movements no problem? Calm yourself and stop ignoring feats. Kakashi showed to keep up with Itachi Uchiha himself. If you wanna ignore manga, then there is no need for you to try and respond to me.

False. No doujutsu can tell. Know the manga.

Sai isn't superior to Naruto in taijutsu. You ignored what I said. Sai is still a long range fighter and used zero ninjutsu and did not attack Sasuke once. Or do you think beating someone who never attacks you and who uses no ninjutsu is impressive?

A's
Yamato wasn't serious by his own admission. Read the manga.

I don't think you know what you are talking about. Itachi does not have chidori nagashi, no one said anything about cheating, and Sai/Yamato were never defeated as you claimed. Yamato held back/had to protect Sakura and Sai never attacked him or used any ninjutsu.

Nah don't feel like it. After a couple of posts, you've proven that you aren't worth my time. Take it easy homie.


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 23, 2013)

Rosencrantz said:


> Yes clearly Kisame did try.



 Scans? He was only a decoy using 30% of his chakra. He certainly can't be going all-out considering that.



> You clearly didn't read what I said. Kakashi doesn't have to match him shuriken for shuriken. He can simply run back and go on the defensive. Doton underground. Doton wall. He has a different fighting style than Sasuke. He doesn't have to do the same thing Sasuke did.



 So like you said, that's a different battle style. Itachi's not going to be caught off-guard by that. 

A's

 Also, he notices something a little off about Itachi at the start.



> Do you know what constants are? Do you not understand the most basic of mathematics? I can tell this is going no where with you unfortunately.



 Good thing I'm good at Math or this would've hurt my feelings! 



> The feat happened. You say Kakashi wouldn't keep up with Itachi. The manga disagrees with you. You're wrong. Sorry dude. Kakashi kept up with Itachi on both occasions. And for the record, Sasuke never bltized Deidara.



 He practically did. Deidara needed Tobi to warn him about what Sasuke was going to do and Deidara needed a bomb to survive. So yes dude, you're wrong. Kakashi new something from the start and Itachi was able to detect him underground. He caught him in a genjutsu and no point did Itachi feel outmatched or showed any signs of effort.



> Then you see the fault in your logic.
> 
> Did you know Kakashi kept up with Itachi and reacted to his movements no problem? Calm yourself and stop ignoring feats. Kakashi showed to keep up with Itachi Uchiha himself. If you wanna ignore manga, then there is no need for you to try and respond to me.







> False. No doujutsu can tell. Know the manga.



A's

 Naruto's the most efficient with the Kage Bushin which is why he caught Neji off-guard.



> Sai isn't superior to Naruto in taijutsu. You ignored what I said. Sai is still a long range fighter and used zero ninjutsu and did not attack Sasuke once. Or do you think beating someone who never attacks you and who uses no ninjutsu is impressive?



 I shall look into some scans later.



> A's
> Yamato wasn't serious by his own admission. Read the manga.



 Fair point. Unfortunately, Sasuke was casually fighting as well. It's obvious he hasn't exerted a sign of effort.



> I don't think you know what you are talking about. Itachi does not have chidori nagashi, no one said anything about cheating, and Sai/Yamato were never defeated as you claimed. Yamato held back/had to protect Sakura and Sai never attacked him or used any ninjutsu.
> 
> Nah don't feel like it. After a couple of posts, you've proven that you aren't worth my time. Take it easy homie.



 And Yamato spent an opportunity to catch Sasuke when he off-guard yet still managed to do nothing. At least Sasuke effortlessly did something to Yamato when Yamato was off-guard.

 So what if Itachi doesn't have Chidori Nagashi? He's a more skilled Genjutsu user.

 Honestly, you still haven't responded to how Naruto can take Base Itachi all on his own, so obviously I know you can't back that up at all.


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## Eliyua23 (Sep 23, 2013)

Itachi gets crushed by the 8 man squad , Itachi was near death at that point and was pushed to Susanoo by Hebi Sasuke alone let alone what an 8 man team of shinobi would do to him, now if this were Edo Itachi without the physical limitations he would have a chance more than likely even win this battle, but he doesn't have the stamina and he was on his death bed at the time Tsunade formed the 8 man squad.


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 23, 2013)

Looking back in the manga, Itachi could've potentially caught Kakashi in a genjutsu by having Kakashi relive the memories of failing Obito and killing Rin.


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