# Zoro vs Vergo



## Lycka (Feb 10, 2013)

now i know Zoro lacks feats but speculate people.


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## Jet Bazooka (Feb 10, 2013)

I'm going to give this to Zoro, very high difficulty. He was trained by Mihawk for 2 years, I would like to believe that he can defeat vice admirals, even though Vergo is high VA. Vergo's haki is strong but I think Zoro would be able to land some hits.


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## TrolonoaZoro (Feb 10, 2013)

Vergo has been shown to be a tank. *He got outmaneuver by Smoker and Sanji outpace him for a while during their small skirmish* But in the other hand, he took the heart out of Law's hand  almost instantly. He has the stick that provide him with long range attack, both in explosive and air force strong enough to bent steel. *Blunt air force, pretty impressive* and then there is his all hardening mode, which we didn't see much but should be obvious that it allows to tank much more and give his punches/swings a considerable higher damage. 

In the other hand Zoro's got the training, hype, swords etc. It should be obvious that he's grown a great deal and we've only seem fragments of what he can do. But due to his fighting style * Vergo can't allow to be hit by his swords* his range of attack * sea monster bigger than the sunny < 360 pound cannon* and durability he would be able to get  it based on that. *Unless someone here believes Zoro wouldn't be able to damage the guy, his face was getting bloody while clashing with both Smoker and Sanji, to his defence he wasn't using FBHardening.* and then there is still the whole Asura deal.


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## J★J♥ (Feb 10, 2013)

Law got lucky hit because Vergo was underestimating him. I still put him above M3 and law in everything.


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## Heretic (Feb 10, 2013)

IMO, Luffy >= Vergo > Zoro given by how Vergo wasn't even using his full haki form in his fight with Smoker.


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## Shinthia (Feb 10, 2013)

the excuse for Vergo getting one shooted by Law is pretty lame.

that said, Vergo should win this as Zoro lacks feat


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## TrolonoaZoro (Feb 10, 2013)

Smoker was using a losing tactic. And I would think *personally* that full body hardening would hinder his movement and maneuverability. *That thing that was giving him problems fighting Smoker*


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## TrainerRed (Feb 10, 2013)

This has been done like a million times. Zoro wins because he has fanboyism on his side. Screw the fact that Vergo almost kicked Sanji's ass who is only a small margin from Zoro. 

Monster trio heiarchy to a Zoro wanker: Luffy=Zoro>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sanji


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## Shinthia (Feb 10, 2013)

RedDogAkainu said:


> This has been done like a million times. Zoro wins because he has fanboyism on his side. Screw the fact that Vergo almost kicked Sanji's ass who is only a small margin from Zoro.
> 
> Monster trio heiarchy to a Zoro wanker: Luffy=Zoro>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sanji



^this
/10char


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## Extravlad (Feb 10, 2013)

Vergo high diff.


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## Imagine (Feb 10, 2013)

Could go either way. Vergo has shown superior CoA and actually beat worthy opponents like Smoker, so it wouldn't be surprising if he actually won.


SaCrEdpOoL said:


> Law got lucky hit because Vergo was underestimating him. I still put him above M3 and law in everything.


There was no form of luck. Law swung and Vergo didn't dodge. Vergo was very confident in his power when he was about to clash with Law.


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## Extravlad (Feb 10, 2013)

Stop wank please, Zoro is a BIT stronger than Sanji and Vergo is much stronger than Sanji (if he use his bamboo stick and his full body haki)


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## corsair (Feb 10, 2013)

The guy cracks Sanjis leg easily, was confident enough in his CoA to block anything Law can throw at him and was only taken out by the combined efforts of Smoker and Law. Because Law, the guy that can teleport himself and everything in his room and took out Smokers heart in a splitsecond, was not fast enough to grab his own heart without a distraction. All that after Vergo took a DJ kick to the face and did not even slow down. 

But Zoro can take him alone.

Right.


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## J★J♥ (Feb 10, 2013)

Imagine said:


> There was no form of luck. Law swung and Vergo didn't dodge. Vergo was very confident in his power when he was about to clash with Law.


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## Imagine (Feb 10, 2013)

SaCrEdpOoL said:


>


Nice response.


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## Sanji (Feb 10, 2013)

Vergo wins. Zoro can't take somebody that was getting the better of Smoker and Sanji.


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## Skream (Feb 10, 2013)

only luffy and law would be able to take vergo on ph


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## Inferno (Feb 10, 2013)

corsair said:


> The guy cracks Sanjis leg easily, was confident enough in his CoA to block anything Law can throw at him and was only taken out by the combined efforts of Smoker and Law. Because Law, the guy that can teleport himself and everything in his room and took out Smokers heart in a splitsecond, was not fast enough to grab his own heart without a distraction. All that after Vergo took a DJ kick to the face and did not even slow down.
> 
> But Zoro can take him alone.
> 
> Right.



This. Some of you fuckers overrate Zoro waaay too much.


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## tanman (Feb 10, 2013)

The guy who can break Sanji's legs without going all out wins.


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## Coruscation (Feb 10, 2013)

Funny what you can accomplish with oversimplifications and by reducing a situation with some degree of complexity to a single straightforward statement.

1) If Sanji tried to tank a powerful slash from Zoro with his bare leg, it would be cut off. A hell of a lot worse than what happened when he tried to tank a powerful attack from Vergo with his bare leg. Ponder that for a moment.

2) Sanji wasn't going all out either. We were given zero reason to believe that the overall situation would change if Vergo amped it up with his bamboo / full body Hardening and Sanji with Hell's Memories / high-end DJ.

Zoro takes this. Mihawk's protege can beat Vergo's hardness and his endurance, this being Zoro we're talking about, is certainly high enough to take a slew of hits and keep going.


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## Viper (Feb 10, 2013)

Vergo wins.


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## Furinji Saiga (Feb 10, 2013)

Coruscation said:


> Funny what you can accomplish with oversimplifications and by reducing a situation with some degree of complexity to a single straightforward statement.
> 
> 1) If Sanji tried to tank a powerful slash from Zoro with his bare leg, it would be cut off. A hell of a lot worse than what happened when he tried to tank a powerful attack from Vergo with his bare leg. Ponder that for a moment.
> 
> ...



Pretty much this, Zoro takes high-extreme difficulty. 

And this better be against a smarter Vergo, because the Vergo that has been portrayed  is the type to let his opponents attack him, which will be a big mistake against someone like Zoro, if Vergo thinks he can think he tank a Shi Shishi Son Son, he is going to be in for a world of hurt.


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## TrolonoaZoro (Feb 10, 2013)

How is it people miss the fact that Sanji=/= Zoro. They have different fighting styles and pros/cons. Because Sanji broke a piece of his leg=/= Zoro automatically loses. Not at all.


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## Lawliet (Feb 10, 2013)

Zoro should take this, we're talking about Zoro guys lol.
If you seriously think he can't beat a VA like Vergo after two years of training with the WSS, then what's the point of going after a yonkou when the 2nd strongest person in the crew can't beat a VA.


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## Hakan Erkan (Feb 10, 2013)

Who is here because of the Urouge FC?


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## Lycka (Feb 10, 2013)

Coruscation said:


> Funny what you can accomplish with oversimplifications and by reducing a situation with some degree of complexity to a single straightforward statement.
> 
> 1) If Sanji tried to tank a powerful slash from Zoro with his bare leg, it would be cut off. A hell of a lot worse than what happened when he tried to tank a powerful attack from Vergo with his bare leg. Ponder that for a moment.
> 
> ...



Your such a good poster.


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## tupadre97 (Feb 10, 2013)

Vergo wins with the same diff as when he fougt sanji



TrolonoaZoro said:


> How is it people miss the fact that Sanji=/= Zoro. They have different fighting styles and pros/cons. Because Sanji broke a piece of his leg=/= Zoro automatically loses. Not at all.


He wont lose immediately but he will eventually.


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## HaxHax (Feb 10, 2013)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> How is it people miss the fact that Sanji=/= Zoro. They have different fighting styles and pros/cons. Because Sanji broke a piece of his leg=/= Zoro automatically loses. Not at all.



And then we're back to "lolswords automatically make you better at everything".


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## Imagine (Feb 10, 2013)

And we're back at HaxHax complaining again.


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## Shingy (Feb 10, 2013)

Zoro with high difficulty.


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## TrolonoaZoro (Feb 10, 2013)

HaxHax said:


> And then we're back to "lolswords automatically make you better at everything".


 Characters are different = swords make you better at everything. That's some....logic....you got going in there mate.


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## Viper (Feb 10, 2013)

HaxHax, destroy them.


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## Sablés (Feb 10, 2013)

Zolo wins.


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## Meruem (Feb 10, 2013)

It's a pretty close fight but I think Zoro wins.  Vergo is going to beat on him forever but Zoro is not easy to put down.  Zoro will eventually find a way to beat him in my opinion.  His haki should be strong enough to do some damage to him though it'll obviously be less because Vergo's haki is insane. 

Law beat Vergo and made it look easy because he's hax.  The way I see it, if Law can beat you then he can usually make it look easy.  If he can't beat you, he loses like a normal fight.  That's just how his DF works.


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Feb 10, 2013)

Imagine said:


> And we're back at HaxHax complaining again.



What are you? Why do you even exist? 

Anyway, I say Zoro wins this with extreme difficulty.


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## Typhon (Feb 10, 2013)

What is indicating Zoro would beat Vergo when everything thats been shown says otherwise?


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## Imagine (Feb 10, 2013)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> What are you? Why do you even exist?
> 
> Anyway, I say Zoro wins this with extreme difficulty.


I was made to frustrate.


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## HaxHax (Feb 10, 2013)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> Characters are different = swords make you better at everything. That's some....logic....you got going in there mate.



It literally comes up every time people say that Zoro can beat someone Sanji can't.. "But it's just because his style matches up better!".. Regardless of the opponent and the opponent's style. Every single time Zoro matches up better for whatever reason that always goes unmentioned.


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## TrolonoaZoro (Feb 10, 2013)

HaxHax said:


> It literally comes up every time people say that Zoro can beat someone Sanji can't.. "But it's just because his style matches up better!".. Regardless of the opponent and the opponent's style. Every single time Zoro matches up better for whatever reason that always goes unmentioned.


 In this case Zoro has an easier way to damage Vergo who's defend has been bypass in previous encounter *keeping in mind that he wasn't FbodyHaki* with blunt damage. Swords hit have been ending fights in one hit and due to their nature of cutting the person's body perform more damage. I don't see how you might make such comment when in this situation you could easily make the case. If it was an example with no legs to back it up, maybe it would've been better.


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## HaxHax (Feb 10, 2013)

This whole assumption that scrawny paper-thin swords are better against tanks has got to stop. It makes no sense, practically or canonically. Blunt attacks have destroyed tough opponents time and time again. When Zoro fought Kaku, he was shown unable to so much as scratch Kaku before he pulled out his single strongest attack. Meanwhile, Sanji was able to hurt Jyabura through tekkai right from the get-go. Kaku and Jyabura were practically identical in terms of strength. And they were both using the same technique as Vergo.

For Sanji in particular the case is even worse. Diable Jambe was shown to ignore Tekkai entirely, when Jyabura got burned right through it. Diable Jambe is a technique that doesn't increase the strength of his kick, only the temperature of it. Toughening your muscles while being grilled just makes for nice, tender meat. Not immunity to the elements.

If you really want to factor in their fighting styles, you can't make the case for Zoro being a better matchup - that is unless you go back to the aforementioned "lolswords" argument - that they are better in every and all situations.

Same would happen as happened to Smoker's jutte.


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## Lycka (Feb 10, 2013)

its a manga where mihawk can cut through fucking mountains with 'scrawny thin paper swords' fool.^^^^^^^


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## Lycka (Feb 10, 2013)

@omniation


nothing suggests zoro could NOT take vergo on.


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## HaxHax (Feb 10, 2013)

OPtiers said:


> its a manga where mihawk can cut through fucking mountains with 'scrawny thin paper swords' fool.^^^^^^^



Yes. Do you have a point?

My case is not that swords are useless, simply that they are not better for this particular situation. For any reason.


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## Shingy (Feb 10, 2013)

Downplaying swords is not going to help the cause.

The power in techniques is all that matters. Luffy having blunt force immunity, but having a weakness against sharp techniques means nothing when there is a clear difference in technique as well as strength.

If Zoro could break Vergo's haki, then yes, slicing techniques offer more of a 1 hit kill variety of moves, but on the other hand, Luffy's gatlings and such would eventually defeat Vergo, but with much more time, and that is what's called durability.

No one's saying lolswords >>>>>> fists, especially in this manga.

Swords ignore durability, and go into a bracket of resistance to cutting. If Vergo's body can't handle the sharpness of swords, and Zoro's techniques combined, then he'll lose, no matter how much difficulty Vergo could or would put up.


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## HaxHax (Feb 10, 2013)

I guess Mr. 1 beat Zoro when he cut him in half.

Or numerous Marines beat Whitebeard when they stabbed him.


Also, downplaying swords is not the same as not buying in to the wanking of the same.


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## TrolonoaZoro (Feb 10, 2013)

HaxHax said:


> This whole assumption that scrawny paper-thin swords are better against tanks has got to stop. It makes no sense, practically or canonically. Blunt attacks have destroyed tough opponents time and time again. When Zoro fought Kaku, he was shown unable to so much as scratch Kaku before he pulled out his single strongest attack. Meanwhile, Sanji was able to hurt Jyabura through tekkai right from the get-go. Kaku and Jyabura were practically identical in terms of strength. And they were both using the same technique as Vergo.


 Eh, Actually. Unlike Jyabura, Kaku wouldn't allow himself to tank a sword slash from Zoro and ran away from his Shishi Sonson that would've ended the fight then and there. The rest of the fight consisted on the fact that if Zoro does gets a hit with his swords, Kaku gets it. He would either dodge his attacks by parrying with rankyaku, use the paper tech or meet force with force * or the strength test* while using the Bigan. He only used his Tekkai when... you guessed it, meeting Zoro's tatsumaki which is not big in cutting ability *at least pre time skip* and you can see Kaku commenting on the raw force. 



> For Sanji in particular the case is even worse. Diable Jambe was shown to ignore Tekkai entirely, when Jyabura got burned right through it. Diable Jambe is a technique that doesn't increase the strength of his kick, only the temperature of it. Toughening your muscles while being grilled just makes for nice, tender meat. Not immunity to the elements.


 Actually it increases the speed of his swing and thus more power. Im pretty sure he explained that, but if you want some examples based on action, Zombies aren't bother by being burn *Not the fire, but heat* But Sanji is forced to diable jambe in order to deflect Oars bazooka. 



> If you really want to factor in their fighting styles, you can't make the case for Zoro being a better matchup - that is unless you go back to the aforementioned "lolswords" argument - that they are better in every and all situations.


 Zoro has his own pros. He's stronger, He can take more damage and his swords allowed him to end fights in one hit. Yeah, it's part of it.



> Same would happen as happened to Smoker's jutte.


 Zoro's sword aren't just any other piece of steel. *Smoker's jutte is only sea-stone on the tip* They're not gonna break that easily and Zoro is very good in noticing if he's sword are in trouble. No.

@edit Yeah, Because those dude that are made a point to be tanks are the standards.


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## HaxHax (Feb 10, 2013)

So basically: Swords are better, always.


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## Imagine (Feb 10, 2013)

HaxHax said:


> So basically: Swords are better, always.


You're finally learning.


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## Imagine (Feb 10, 2013)

Sables, get out.


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## Typhon (Feb 10, 2013)

OPtiers said:


> @omniation
> 
> 
> nothing suggests zoro could NOT take vergo on.



Except that Vergo beat Smoker who for obvious reasons, should be stronger.


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## tanman (Feb 10, 2013)

Coruscation said:


> Funny what you can accomplish with oversimplifications and by reducing a situation with some degree of complexity to a single straightforward statement.
> 
> 1) If Sanji tried to tank a powerful slash from Zoro with his bare leg, it would be cut off. A hell of a lot worse than what happened when he tried to tank a powerful attack from Vergo with his bare leg. Ponder that for a moment.
> 
> ...



I pondered, and I disagree. There seems to be this peculiar misconception that blade damage naturally trumps blunt damage, but that simply isn't true in the OP verse. We've seen time and time again that Sanji's legs are close to Zoro's swords strength and superior to Zoro's swords in durability. Strength and lethality are non-factors in differentiating between blade and blunt damage. In the OP verse, the only differences are the _types_ of damage and the ranges. Zoro couldn't take Sanji's leg off unless he used his absolute strongest technique. Having Zoro take off Sanji's legs with anything less is like having Jet Hammer bust one of Zoro's swords.

You're second point, in contrast, is fair. However, it was clear that Vergo had a nearly insurmountable advantage when both fighters were restraining on a similar level.

It's within the imagination that Zoro could overcome Base Vergo's M3 level durability, but add Vergo's Haki to that and Zoro would need a Daz Bones-style miracle to take him down.


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## Lycka (Feb 10, 2013)

Omnation said:


> Except that Vergo beat Smoker who for obvious reasons, should be stronger.



because getting beat in EVERY single fight means hes stronger than someone who trained with one of the 5 strongest pirates in the world (mihawk shanks big mom kaidou teach) 


who has one shotted doflamingos 2nd strongest subordiante (shown so far)


has since the timeskip, never had to lift a finger compared to luffy and sanji


tagashi who is smokers righthand commented on his tremndous strngth, but she NEVER made a comment on sanjis strngth when he and vergo were fighting. if tagashi was use to strong strength which, since you claim smoker is stronger than zoro, why would she comment SPECIFICLLY on zoros strength when its weaker than smokers so it shouldnt be anything special? 


Why didnt she comment on sanjis strngth but called Zoro a BEAST.

why did monet acknowledge zoro as being an oponent she'd 100% die against but never commented in that manner to luffy? (not saying luffy is weaker because thats not true at ALL)

why is oda reserving zoro's strngth so much?

why is it that everyone that sees zoro fight since post skip always comment on his strength but the same isn't for luffy or sanji.




smoker is not luffy's garp and is playing second fiddle as of now.


nothing suggests smoker is stronger than zoro.


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## TrainerRed (Feb 10, 2013)

There is really no point in arguing with these guys. They can't stomach the possibility of the favorite swordsman getting his ass raped....so just leave it alone. Zolo wins.


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## Reality (Feb 10, 2013)

Zoro does not have the "Feats" to cut through Virgo's "Full Body" haki armor.

There is of course a good chance that Zoro has something left to show that could give him the win but based on feats, Virgo should take it with High-difficulty.


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## TrainerRed (Feb 10, 2013)

^Reported and negged...



*Spoiler*: __ 



just kidding...


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## TrolonoaZoro (Feb 10, 2013)

A chance Zoro has something left? lol. He's the one with the least feats of the monster trio.


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## Reality (Feb 10, 2013)

RedDogAkainu said:


> ^Reported and negged...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



For "what" exactly ?

oops didn't see the spoiler


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## Lycka (Feb 10, 2013)

so zoro can't cut something that isn just very hard? 2 years of training. with one of the worlds 5 strongest pirates (mihawk)  means nothing?


yet if luffy trained with shanks or kaidou people would say he's top tier smh.


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## TrainerRed (Feb 10, 2013)

Reality said:


> For "what" exactly ?
> 
> oops didn't see the spoiler



I would never neg a reasonable fellow like you. Trust me a couple more Zoro Vs threads and you get the joke. Lol


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## Shinthia (Feb 10, 2013)

Zoro wins with 0 diff. Now agree with me Zoro wankers


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 10, 2013)

It can go either way Vergo is a demon just like Zoro.


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## Lawliet (Feb 11, 2013)

Lionel Messi said:


> Zoro wins with 0 diff. Now agree with me Zoro wankers




minus 2 diff sounds better, happy?


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## Shinthia (Feb 11, 2013)

oOLawlietOo said:


> minus 2 diff sounds better, happy?



No , -2 is too high diff make it -100% diff. and i might be happy with my WSS,WSM,WSone-eyedM,the real PK ZORO's strength.


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## TrainerRed (Feb 11, 2013)

Vergo casually blocked Tashigi's sword with a simple use of CoA. A full body hakified Vergo?...yeah Zoro's not scratching him. Law had to use an island wide Room in conjunction with his advanced haki to fully bypass Vergo's Armament. Without Room I doubt Law would have been able to completely cut Vergo in half. In a nut shell Zoro doesn't have what it takes to put Vergo down before he gets his skull cracked open with an Oni Take.


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## SsjAzn (Feb 11, 2013)

Vergo with high difficulty


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## Ryuksgelus (Feb 11, 2013)

RedDogAkainu said:


> *Vergo casually blocked Tashigi's sword *with a simple use of CoA. *A full body hakified Vergo?*...yeah Zoro's not scratching him. Law had to use an island wide Room in conjunction with his advanced haki to fully bypass Vergo's Armament. *Without Room I doubt Law would have been able to completely cut Vergo in half.* In a nut shell Zoro doesn't have what it takes to put Vergo down before he gets his skull cracked open with an Oni Take.



How exactly can you scale Tashigi to Zoro?

He went fullbody so Law couldn't touch him. No proof it's extra defense.

What? Law has to cut you for room/shambles to work. A bigger room doesn't create a more powerful slash. He only used a big room to destroy all the Sad containers. Cutting Vergo was with his own physical strength and haki.


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## Pink Matter (Feb 11, 2013)

Zoro with extreme difficulty.


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## tanman (Feb 11, 2013)

OPtiers said:


> so zoro can't cut something that isn just very hard? 2 years of training. with one of the worlds 5 strongest pirates (mihawk)  means nothing?
> 
> 
> yet if luffy trained with shanks or kaidou people would say he's top tier smh.



Yep. Zoro can probably cut Jozu down too. Planet level slashes, bro.
He should start his own pirate crew. Luffy is a nub.


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## tupadre97 (Feb 11, 2013)

If Smoker barely had a chance to win against base Vergo then what chance does Zoro have against Vergo who can use full body armor? Come on ppl just think for 5 seconds. Zoro has no feats to suggest he can beat Vergo's durability. We don't even know the full limit of Vergo's durability but it was strong enough for him to tank 2 DJ kicks to the face, a counter shock, and several hits from Smoker and the only damage he had after all of that was just a bloody face, he showed no fatigue or damage anywhere else on his body and he was still able to go full body haki and fight with no problem. There's no way in hell Current Zoro could match up with somebody like that.

Zoro is getting his swords broken just like Smokers jutte and he's gonna get his skull cracked just like Sanji's leg bones.

/thread


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## NO (Feb 11, 2013)

Zoro wins, medium difficulty.

People are overplaying Sanji's cracked leg - he wasn't using haki at the time. Two, Sanji bashed Vergo into a wall twice. 

Three, Sanji is a cook, Zoro is a fighter.


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## tupadre97 (Feb 11, 2013)

jayjay32 said:


> Zoro wins, medium difficulty.
> 
> People are overplaying Sanji's cracked leg - he wasn't using haki at the time. Two, Sanji bashed Vergo into a wall twice.
> 
> Three, Sanji is a cook, Zoro is a fighter.



  the wankers just dont stop do they


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 11, 2013)

Pretty sure jay is just joking.

And wow we got some Vergo wankers it seems, he has no haki feats that suggest he can't be cut by Zoro.


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## Shinthia (Feb 11, 2013)

jayjay32 said:


> Zoro wins, medium difficulty.
> 
> People are overplaying Sanji's cracked leg - he wasn't using haki at the time. Two, Sanji bashed Vergo into a wall twice.
> 
> Three, *Sanji is a cook, Zoro is a fighter*.


1. How did u know Sanji was not using haki ?
2. Yet still he came out , carck Sanji's best weapon (Leg) and give Smoker the beating of his life. So, sure that 2 DJ kick rocked Vergo's world.
3. I guess u also think, Fighter with 3 sword > Fighter with 2 sword > fighter with 1 sword > just Fighter > > > > > > a Cook 



Explain, then why Smoker was beaten and got his jutti broken by base Vergo ?


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## Sanji (Feb 11, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> *Pretty sure jay is just joking.*
> 
> And wow we got some Vergo wankers it seems, he has no haki feats that suggest he can't be cut by Zoro.



No, he's just that bad.


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## tupadre97 (Feb 11, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Pretty sure jay is just joking.
> 
> And wow we got some Vergo wankers it seems, he has no haki feats that suggest he can't be cut by Zoro.



It wont do as much damage as ppl seem to think and Vergo isnt just gonna stand there and keep letting him cut him. He may get one or two clean hits if he's lucky, but besides that he has nothing going for him.


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## TrolonoaZoro (Feb 11, 2013)

Comparing Zoro to tashigi who was amazed by what a playing around Zoro with no Haki could perform/Continuous talk about Zoro wanking. Plus 1 for the logicalness.


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## Lycka (Feb 11, 2013)

LOL so fucking true.^



comparing zoro to tagashi is just.... awful


we've. been shown multiple times that the difference between that of zoro and tagashi is similar to that of zoro and his pre-skip self.



I wouldn't be surpirsised if the difference between chopper (when he was a newborn)
and prime whitebeard is smaller than that of zoro and tagaishi.


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## Lycka (Feb 11, 2013)

RedDogAkainu said:


> Vergo casually blocked Tashigi's sword with a simple use of CoA. A full body hakified Vergo?...yeah Zoro's not scratching him.



Mother of God


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## Klauser (Feb 11, 2013)

This topic is a prime example of how the "lol Zolo" police is just a bunch of ignorant assholes ruining the forum and bashing any positive posts about Zoro every time they see one no matter what the context is.

Nice argumentation really.Because it looked like Sanji wouldn't have an easy fight with Vergo it means Zoro has no chance and that this is canon?
I have some good news people, Zoro IS STRONGER than Sanji.Only in this forum can we find illogical butt-hurt haters that can tell you shits like " A is stronger than B but the margin is so small that there is no fighter in the universe between A and B lol wut I suck".

We've got the usual "Zoro can't hurt Vergo and will get his skull destroyed lol" shit even though Zoro is the only main fighter on PH that hasn't been serious once.Fuck, the guy has one shot everyone since the time-skip and with such portraying you had expect his strongest move to be one of the most epic and anticipated thing to see post-skip. 
But instead of that haters are trying their hardest to downplay Zoro as much as they can with the now classic "lol Zolo fans are retards rep me bruh I'm one of the cool kids".

People are even ignoring that Smoker was using a losing tactic, and honestly his post-skip feats are seriously suggesting that Smoker's gonna need a small power boost real soon.And what better timing for his bro Aojiki to come to his rescue than now...If Smoker was indeed that strong I don't see why Tashigi would be that impressed by a not serious messing around Zoro, since obviously for 2 years she was able to witness Smoker's own progresses.

And more than anything people conveniently like to ignore the fact that Zoro is a Supernova, you know one of those infamous pirates that Oda is hyping like crazy since post-skip.

He's the whole package, a SN fated to become the WSS, right hand man of the future Pirate King, a guy that just finished 2 years of training with the current WSS and one of the strongest man alive, in his god-damn prime.
If Zoro with his background wouldn't be able to defeat Vergo now this wouldn't make any sense.His whole training with Mihawk would be fucking worthless.Luffy and Zoro will have to show low top tiers feats in a near future if the manga wants to be consistent.Vergo we know would get one shot by any low top tier.If Zoro would get destroyed by him right now I fail to see how Oda could legitimately make him the WSS in the future without a giant ass-pull.


----------



## Dunno (Feb 11, 2013)

Klauser said:


> This topic is a prime example of how the "lol Zolo" police is just a bunch of ignorant assholes ruining the forum and bashing any positive posts about Zoro every time they see one no matter what the context is.
> 
> Nice argumentation really.Because it looked like Sanji wouldn't have an easy fight with Vergo it means Zoro has no chance and that this is canon?
> I have some good news people, Zoro IS STRONGER than Sanji.Only in this forum can we find illogical butt-hurt haters that can tell you shits like " A is stronger than B but the margin is so small that there is no fighter in the universe between A and B lol wut I suck".
> ...



All of this.


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## HxH d Best Ever (Feb 11, 2013)

Zoro will beat DD's second strongest in the next arc, minus a power-up, and some people think he canr beat someone weaker.


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## Shingy (Feb 11, 2013)

Zoro wins with high to extreme difficulty.

Just because someone has stronger haki, doesn't mean that he won't last long enough in a fight where the user gets tired and drops his guard.

In the end, Zoro should be completely capable of waring him down to a point where he can slice him multiple times.

Zoro's endurance is god like.

Smoker's one goal, was to be out of debt to a pirate, and his whole fight with Vergo was to get Law's heart back. Not to beat Vergo. Don't ever use this fight as an example of strengths relative to peers.


----------



## tanman (Feb 11, 2013)

My reasoning for Vergo's victory is not based solely off my opinions of Zoro. My opinion of Vergo seems to be the biggest difference between myself and those supporting Zoro's victory (well, the reasonable ones like Coruscation and Klauser). In my opinion, Luffy couldn't beat Vergo. That interpretation is based entirely off of the character's portrayal, of course. I can't make a reasoned argument based solely off feats, however, I feel I can with Zoro due to the closeness in power between him and Sanji and the confidence with which Vergo carried himself in his Hakified form.


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## Lycka (Feb 11, 2013)

luffy would beat vergo 


come on.


----------



## Extravlad (Feb 11, 2013)

We don't seen the limit of Vergo's durability.


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## Lycka (Feb 11, 2013)

as if that matters. we can assume that he's a monstrous tank though.


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## NO (Feb 11, 2013)

Klauser said:


> This topic is a prime example of how the "lol Zolo" police is just a bunch of ignorant assholes ruining the forum and bashing any positive posts about Zoro every time they see one no matter what the context is.
> 
> Nice argumentation really.Because it looked like Sanji wouldn't have an easy fight with Vergo it means Zoro has no chance and that this is canon?
> I have some good news people, Zoro IS STRONGER than Sanji.Only in this forum can we find illogical butt-hurt haters that can tell you shits like " A is stronger than B but the margin is so small that there is no fighter in the universe between A and B lol wut I suck".
> ...


All of this.


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## Reality (Feb 11, 2013)

Ryuksgelus said:


> How exactly can you scale Tashigi to Zoro?
> 
> He went fullbody so Law couldn't touch him. No proof it's extra defense.
> 
> What? Law has to cut you for room/shambles to work. A bigger room doesn't create a more powerful slash. He only used a big room to destroy all the Sad containers. Cutting Vergo was with his own physical strength and haki.



Law clearly used "Room" to cut virgo in half. You can see law charging his "sphere" on the bottom right corner 

If it was indeed his "Raw strength", Virgo would've died instantly. 

Also, due to his Devil fruit, he was able to slice an entire mountain.


----------



## Ryuksgelus (Feb 12, 2013)

Reality said:


> Law clearly used "Room" to cut virgo in half. *You can see law charging his "sphere" on the bottom right corner *
> *
> If it was indeed his "Raw strength", Virgo would've died instantly. *
> 
> Also, due to his Devil fruit, he was able to slice an entire mountain.



How does that disprove that he did so to cut Vergo and the entire facility one one go?

You don't get it. Room doesn't amplify law's cutting power. In order for shambles to work he needed to overcome Vergo's defenses. His skill, power, and Haki were needed for shambles to work.


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## Reality (Feb 12, 2013)

Ryuksgelus said:


> How does that disprove that he did so to cut Vergo and the entire facility one one go?
> 
> You don't get it. Room doesn't amplify law's cutting power. *In order for shambles to work *he needed to overcome virgo's defenses. His skill, power, and Haki were needed for shambles to work.





Well, Because his Devil fruit allows him to bifurcate anything within the "Range" of his "Room". Judging by the circumstance, he did indeed use "Haki" in conjunction of his "Devil fruit" to cut virgo in half. His "Room" does not amplify his cutting power, furthermore it only allows him to control the placement and orientation of the objects inside, It is technically an operating "Room" that Law controls, an operating room that ignores real life "Durability".

You must understand that Law's mastery over his Devil fruit is overwhelming, his "Room" was big enough to engulf the island, thereby enabling him to cut the mountains.

Do you honestly believe that Law would have been able to cut through the "Mountains" with just "Haki" ? Let alone overpower Virgo's Full-body "Haki" armor ? 

He only needed to swing his sword horizontally once his "Room" covered the island, it's not like he needed to go all out in order to perform the "Feat" (Disregarding the beating he took).

Take in consideration that law's "Devil fruit" is pretty haxed, even a top tier like "Whitebeard" would succumb against its "Cheapness".


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## TrainerRed (Feb 12, 2013)

^This.

People actually think Law use raw physical power to bisect Vergo and that his "Room" did the island cutting feat. All Law had to do was bypass Vergo's haki just a little so that his "Room" could work its magic, and you must be delusional if you think Zoro's haki is on Law's level.


----------



## Pyro (Feb 12, 2013)

Coruscation said:


> Funny what you can accomplish with oversimplifications and by reducing a situation with some degree of complexity to a single straightforward statement.
> 
> 1) If Sanji tried to tank a powerful slash from Zoro with his bare leg, it would be cut off. A hell of a lot worse than what happened when he tried to tank a powerful attack from Vergo with his bare leg. Ponder that for a moment.
> 
> ...



This is pretty much my thoughts on the matter too. If Sanji had gone balls to the wall against Vergo, he probably would have won with extreme difficulty.

 That being said, Vergo's CoA hardening provides a different challange to someone like Sanji using blunt force to deal damage than cutting. If Zoro is able to cut Law, then he should be able to win this fight. If not, then I doubt he would be able to. Sanji on the other hand, would have to inflict enough damage that it would not only be felt underneath the CoA shield, but that he would then have to sustain that damage enough to defeat him. 

Therefore, Vergo's fighting style is better suited at fighting against Sanji than Zoro. 

Zoro takes this as I think he can cut through Vergo's CoA. And that's really the only question anyone should be asking themselves. Because if you believe he can, then what's stopping you from thinking he'd win?


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## Sayonara (Feb 12, 2013)

Zoro takes this, I dont seem him being able to cleave Vergo in half, but after 2 years training hes sure as hell is capable cutting him. I've said it before but Law made things pretty clear when he told Vergo hes not the same and that shits changed, and that applies to all the SHs. Vergo is strong hes got some good feats and his CoA was probably best on island but hes not the big bad and neither is Law, I even see some posts questioning whether Luffy can beat him but seriously who the fuck do you guys think Vergo actually is? two years ago sure but now hes just another strong guy.


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## TrainerRed (Feb 12, 2013)

I love how in One Piece Avenue have this attitude that just because Zoro trained with Mihawk for 2 year suddenly he's gonna go into the New World one-shotting everyone and their freaking dog.


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## Sayonara (Feb 12, 2013)

RedDogAkainu said:


> I love how in One Piece Avenue have this attitude that just because Zoro trained with Mihawk for 2 year suddenly he's gonna go into the New World one-shotting everyone and their freaking dog.



Really one shot? Because yea that's really what everyone been saying.


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## tupadre97 (Feb 12, 2013)

OPtiers said:


> luffy would beat vergo
> 
> 
> come on.



Neither one of them could beat Vergo


RedDogAkainu said:


> ^This.
> 
> People actually think Law use raw physical power to bisect Vergo and that his "Room" did the island cutting feat. All Law had to do was bypass Vergo's haki just a little so that his "Room" could work its magic, and you must be delusional if you think Zoro's haki is on Law's level.


They just love wanking Zoro dont they


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## Pink Matter (Feb 12, 2013)

tupadre97 said:


> Neither one of them could beat Vergo
> 
> They just love wanking Zoro dont they



Either of them could beat Vergo.


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## tupadre97 (Feb 12, 2013)

Pink Matter said:


> Either of them could beat Vergo.



They'd get KO'd b4 they even did any real damage to him.


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## Extravlad (Feb 12, 2013)

Vergo is stronger than Zoro.
He is faster than Zoro.
He is more durable than Zoro.
He has a better CoA.
He has a better CoO.

Vergo > Luffy > Law > Smoker > Zoro.


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## Ryuksgelus (Feb 12, 2013)

Reality said:


> Well, Because his Devil fruit allows him to bifurcate anything within the "Range" of his "Room". Judging by the circumstance, he did indeed use "Haki" in conjunction of his "Devil fruit" to cut virgo in half. His "Room" does not amplify his cutting power, furthermore it only allows him to control the placement and orientation of the objects inside, It is technically an operating "Room" that Law controls, an operating room that ignores real life "Durability".




Don't know why you're explaining this to me. 



> You must understand that Law's mastery over his Devil fruit is overwhelming, his "Room" was big enough to *engulf the island, *thereby enabling him to cut the mountains.



The island was much bigger than what he cut.



> Do you honestly believe that Law would have been able to cut through the "Mountains" with just "Haki" ? Let alone overpower Virgo's Full-body "Haki" armor ?



Why do people put so much importance in "Full-body" "Haki"? Vergo hardened everywhere to leave no openings. It wasn't some super-form. Pretty sure no one is arguing Shambles, Haki, and physical strength did not cut down Vergo and the mountain. Law cuts everything in the path of his swing in his Room. No energy is lost as the force of the swing travels. 

It's not like Mihawk cutting the Iceberg with raw physical force.    Vergo was the toughest thing to cut in room. Thus everything within Room less hard than Vergo was split. And no Vergo doesn't have mountain level durability. 



> *He only needed to swing his sword horizontally once* his "Room" covered the island, it's not like he needed to go all out in order to perform the "Feat" (Disregarding the beating he took).



Really fucking hard.



> Take in consideration that law's "Devil fruit" is pretty haxed, even a top tier like "Whitebeard" would succumb against its "Cheapness".



Nope. Doflomingo makes it clear Law had to grow before he was able to overcome Vergo's hardening. Law isn't doing squat to WB or even Jozu's CoA at this point.


----------



## Green Monkey (Feb 12, 2013)

Ryuksgelus said:


> Don't know why you're explaining this to me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I hope you mean he has more than mountain level durability...

Whitebeard was getting pentrated easily by high tiers during the war, so there is no reason in the world to think Law couldn't do the same. I also love how Jozu is the savior for people who don't have any example of how powerful someone's COA can be, but they assume his is all powerful due to his fruit...which really makes no sense, since being naturally harder would make u less inclined to use COA, not more so.


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## Coruscation (Feb 12, 2013)

It doesn't take a mountain level attack to hurt Vergo. There is actually no one the series with that level of durability. Law's fruit IGNORES durability except for Haki. For Law there is no such thing as mountain level durability. If it's inside his room it gets cut. What he really does is not even cutting, technically, it's spatial manipulating. With a sword as the medium it takes a form akin to cutting. But the only thing it can't get through is Haki (the only way to counter DF abilities, remember) unless Law uses Haki of his own. Which is why we know that doing that was the reason he was able to use his ability successfully on Vergo.

No high tier ever broke through an active Haki defense from Whitebeard.


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## Extravlad (Feb 12, 2013)

And that's why I said we don't seen Vergo's durability limits.


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## Pink Matter (Feb 12, 2013)

tupadre97 said:


> They'd get KO'd b4 they even did any real damage to him.



More like Vergo would get KO'd because he's overconfident like that; Redhawk/ShishiSonson/Hell Memories to the face and whatnot.


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## Green Monkey (Feb 12, 2013)

Coruscation said:


> It doesn't take a mountain level attack to hurt Vergo. There is actually no one the series with that level of durability. Law's fruit IGNORES durability except for Haki. For Law there is no such thing as mountain level durability. If it's inside his room it gets cut. What he really does is not even cutting, technically, it's spatial manipulating. With a sword as the medium it takes a form akin to cutting. But the only thing it can't get through is Haki (the only way to counter DF abilities, remember) unless Law uses Haki of his own. Which is why we know that doing that was the reason he was able to use his ability successfully on Vergo.
> 
> *No high tier ever broke through an active Haki defense from Whitebeard.*



>_>. Than he is too old and slow to activate his haki when high tiers are attacking him. Either way, Law could do it.


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## Pyro (Feb 12, 2013)

Extravlad said:


> Vergo is stronger than Zoro.
> He is faster than Zoro.
> He is more durable than Zoro.
> He has a better CoA.
> ...



Man, with so much overwhelming evidence and reasoning to back yourself up, how could anyone disagree?


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## RF (Feb 12, 2013)

Pyro said:


> Man, with so much overwhelming evidence and reasoning to back yourself up, how could anyone disagree?



exactly.

I'm astonished how this section has some debaters who use cold hard facts to back up everything they say.


----------



## Imagine (Feb 12, 2013)

Extravlad is Oda's assistant.


----------



## RF (Feb 12, 2013)

Imagine said:


> Extravlad is Oda's assistant.



Everything makes sense now


----------



## tupadre97 (Feb 12, 2013)

Extravlad said:


> Vergo is stronger than Zoro.
> He is faster than Zoro.
> He is more durable than Zoro.
> He has a better CoA.
> ...



He isnt faster but everything else is true... except for him being greater than Law


Pink Matter said:


> More like Vergo would get KO'd because he's overconfident like that; Redhawk/ShishiSonson/Hell Memories to the face and whatnot.



Do u have any proof that any of those attacks would KO him? He has greater durability than anybody on PH and we haven't even seen his limits. Why do u just jump to the conclusion that those attacks can one shot him?


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## Extravlad (Feb 12, 2013)

> Man, with so much overwhelming evidence and reasoning to back yourself up, how could anyone disagree?


Hmm ok.

Vergo is faster than Law's shamble.

And Law's shamble >> Smoker's speed.

Smoker's speed = Base Luffy's speed.

Base Luffy's speed > Zoro's speed.

Vergo's speed > Zoro's speed.

Vergo is faster.

Vergo is more durable bcauz he tanked Sanji,Smoker and Law attacks.

Zoro just tank Moriah Oz and Kuma attacks.

Smoker Sanji and Law > Kuma Oz and Moriah.

Vergo has a better CoA manga feats proves it.

Vergo has a better CoO 

Vergo is physically stronger he breaks Sanji's leg with a normal kick.

Vergo > Zoro


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## tupadre97 (Feb 12, 2013)

Extravlad said:


> Hmm ok.
> 
> Vergo is faster than Law's shamble.
> 
> ...



Thread should end right here but with all these Zolo wankers u know its gonna last like 3 more pages.


----------



## Pink Matter (Feb 12, 2013)

tupadre97 said:


> He isnt faster but everything else is true... except for him being greater than Law
> 
> 
> Do u have any proof that any of those attacks would KO him? He has greater durability than anybody on PH and we haven't even seen his limits. Why do u just jump to the conclusion that those attacks can one shot him?



What durability? The guy was sent flying back and bleeding profusely from Sanji's DJ kick and Smoker's Armament punch. It was Vergo's endurance that let him get back up and keep fighting. Both these attacks Vergo took head-on. Redhawk, ShishiSonon and Hell Memories are way stronger than those attacks. If Vergo decides to tank those attacks, which he probably will because of his nature, if he's not getting KO'd he's going to be pretty fucked up at the last.


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## Coruscation (Feb 12, 2013)

> Than he is too old and slow to activate his haki when high tiers are attacking him



Yeah, or, you know, too busy having his stomach melted by a top tier's magma punch while simultaneously having a heart attack and suffering from a sickness bad enough that he needs to be hooked up to medical equipment constantly. Could be that.


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## tupadre97 (Feb 12, 2013)

Pink Matter said:


> What durability? The guy was sent flying back and bleeding profusely from Sanji's DJ kick and Smoker's Armament punch. It was Vergo's endurance that let him get back up and keep fighting. Both these attacks Vergo took head-on. Redhawk, ShishiSonon and Hell Memories are way stronger than those attacks. If Vergo decides to tank those attacks, which he probably will because of his nature, if he's not getting KO'd he's going to be pretty fucked up at the last.



Who gives a damn about blood? Vergo took virtually no damage from his fights with Sanji and Smoker and was ready to give Law another ass-whooping like he wasnt even fighting anyone b4 that. Thats not endurance thats durability. Vergo can definitely tank any of those attacks. He has waaaaaay more durability than the fodder they used those attacks on. While on the other hand all he has to due is hit them a few times with some regular hardening hits and they will go down. He's just way too powerful and durable for them.


----------



## Pyro (Feb 12, 2013)

Extravlad said:


> Hmm ok.
> 
> Vergo is faster than Law's shamble.
> 
> ...



Bolded areas I don't agree.

I only think Luffy is faster than Zoro in G2. Bout equal in base. And who says smokers speed is only equal to Luffy's in base? I'd say he's in between Luffy's base and G2 speed.

And Law really only attacked Vergo once. And it cut him in half. Don't know why you brought him up.

We have no idea what kind of haki Zoro has, so saying Vergo has proven better is pure speculation.

And Vergo did not "Break Sanji's leg". Merely a small fracture and Sanji was perfectly fine running and fighting on it for the rest of the arc. Sanji and Vergo's fight wasn't them both going all out either.


----------



## Shingy (Feb 12, 2013)

Extravlad said:


> Hmm ok.
> 
> Vergo is faster than Law's shamble.
> 
> ...



All of the bolded is useless. That defeats 80% of your arguments.


Zoro's feats of tanking Kuma's and Moria's/Oz's attacks were from before the time skip. That just goes to show how much potential he had if he could do that much.

To put it shortly, where Zoro lacks in CoA, he makes up in sheer durability and strength. That's not to say his CoA is that far behind Vergo anyway.

Bottom line, Zoro slices and dices, with high difficulty.


----------



## Lycka (Feb 12, 2013)

people really over rate vergo's full body haki even though it's fearless.

than do a 180? turn and say that zoro doesn't have feats that prove he's stronger, more durable, etc. than vergo.


double standards people.


----------



## Sayonara (Feb 12, 2013)

tupadre97 said:


> Do u have any proof that any of those attacks would KO him? He has greater durability than anybody on PH and we haven't even seen his limits. Why do u just jump to the conclusion that those attacks can one shot him?



Yes its simply not fair , I mean we never got to see Vergos limits at all while Zoros shown everything on other hand....oh wait. Dont really agree with Optiers normally but hes right with double standards.


----------



## Pink Matter (Feb 12, 2013)

tupadre97 said:


> Who gives a damn about blood? Vergo took virtually no damage from his fights with Sanji and Smoker and was ready to give Law another ass-whooping like he wasnt even fighting anyone b4 that. Thats not endurance thats durability. Vergo can definitely tank any of those attacks. He has waaaaaay more durability than the fodder they used those attacks on. While on the other hand all he has to due is hit them a few times with some regular hardening hits and they will go down. He's just way too powerful and durable for them.



Blood=indicator of damage. Besides that, Vergo's face was all banged up just prior to going Black Hulk. He wasn't just bleeding, he had a bunch of bruises too. Durability=the ability to not take damage. Endurance=the ability to go on after taking damage. Vergo took damage, so he's not that durable. Prove Vergo can take down Sanji, Smoker, Law and Luffy with "a few Hardening hits.


----------



## TrainerRed (Feb 12, 2013)

^ Sanji got his most strongest part of his body...I repeat *MOST STRONGEST* part broken with a single kick. Zoro is not surviving a couple of blows from that guy...get real.


----------



## Fomor214 (Feb 12, 2013)

meh i don't really take the Sanji vs Vergo fight too seriously. In a rematch Sanji would do a lot better. Vergo would probably beat him still but with a lot of difficulty. I think Zoro might be able to win against Vergo, but i'm not exactly sure.


----------



## Pink Matter (Feb 12, 2013)

RedDogAkainu said:


> ^ Sanji got his most strongest part of his body...I repeat *MOST STRONGEST* part broken with a single kick. Zoro is not surviving a couple of blows from that guy...get real.



So tell me, when you get your leg broken and not slightly cracked, are you still able to run fine? I sure as hell can't.


----------



## Lord Stark (Feb 12, 2013)

SaCrEdpOoL said:


> Law got lucky hit because Vergo was underestimating him. I still put him above M3 and *law *in everything.



You can't be serious.


----------



## Imagine (Feb 12, 2013)

SaCrEdpOoL said:


> Law got lucky hit because Vergo was underestimating him. I still put him above M3 and law in everything.



Come again?


RedDogAkainu said:


> ^ Sanji got his most strongest part of his body...I repeat *MOST STRONGEST* part broken with a single kick. Zoro is not surviving a couple of blows from that guy...get real.


Vergo didn't brake Sanji's leg, he severely injured it.


----------



## SageMaster (Feb 12, 2013)

Coruscation said:


> It doesn't take a mountain level attack to hurt Vergo. There is actually no one the series with that level of durability. Law's fruit IGNORES durability except for Haki. For Law there is no such thing as mountain level durability. If it's inside his room it gets cut. What he really does is not even cutting, technically, it's spatial manipulating. With a sword as the medium it takes a form akin to cutting. But the only thing it can't get through is Haki (the only way to counter DF abilities, remember) unless Law uses Haki of his own. Which is why we know that doing that was the reason he was able to use his ability successfully on Vergo.
> 
> No high tier ever broke through an active Haki defense from Whitebeard.



What about Squardo?

I'm still undecided about who should take this. The only point that matters here is if Zoro's Haki can surpass Vergo's. 

I assume Zoro can cut him, considering how close in strength he has always been to Luffy and therefore Law. Can't say for sure since we've only saw here cut the obviously weaker Monet, though.


----------



## Coruscation (Feb 13, 2013)

> What about Squardo?



What about him? Unless you want to make the case that Whitebeard was having an active Haki defense up while standing on his ship doing nothing combat related, he's not relevant.


----------



## tupadre97 (Feb 13, 2013)

Shingy said:


> All of the bolded is useless. That defeats 80% of your arguments.
> 
> 
> Zoro's feats of tanking Kuma's and Moria's/Oz's attacks were from before the time skip. That just goes to show how much potential he had if he could do that much.
> ...



Who cares if he tanked Kuma and Oars' attacks, Vergo hits harder than all of him. Stop wanking Zoro's durability.


OPtiers said:


> people really over rate vergo's full body haki even though it's fearless.
> 
> than do a 180? turn and say that zoro doesn't have feats that prove he's stronger, more durable, etc. than vergo.
> 
> ...



Vergo's fullbody form is featless but its obviously stronger than him base form, which is already stronger than Zoro. Without it restricted there's just no way Zoro can win. Even if he fought base Vergo he would lose the majority of the time.


Pink Matter said:


> Blood=indicator of damage. Besides that, Vergo's face was all banged up just prior to going Black Hulk. He wasn't just bleeding, he had a bunch of bruises too. Durability=the ability to not take damage. Endurance=the ability to go on after taking damage. Vergo took damage, so he's not that durable. Prove Vergo can take down Sanji, Smoker, Law and Luffy with "a few Hardening hits.



Go back and read chapter 690, Vergo had no damage anywhere except for his face. He was perfectly fine and ready to fight Law again.

And as for his strength we already have feats of him being able to beat ppl with a few hits. He kicked Sanji once with a regular kick and broke his leg, something Zoro could never accomplish. He knocked Law the fuck out in a few hits. He broke Smoker's jutte with one good shot. Stop acting like Vergo doesnt have feats when he obviously does.


RedDogAkainu said:


> ^ Sanji got his most strongest part of his body...I repeat *MOST STRONGEST* part broken with a single kick. Zoro is not surviving a couple of blows from that guy...get real.



EXACTLY. Why are they still arguing this? Zoro is nowhere near as strong as that and he isnt much more durable than Sanji and his haki shouldn't be as strong as Smoker so he is gonna get his ass kicked, end of discussion.


Pink Matter said:


> So tell me, when you get your leg broken and not slightly cracked, are you still able to run fine? I sure as hell can't.



 He was limping after the fight. And Sanji is superhuman he can still fight even tho his leg is broke, come on. Thats called endurance, not that bs u were talking about b4.


----------



## Mercurial (Feb 13, 2013)

Smoker,who has a great endurance,but not better than Zoro's,tanked Vergo's CoA Hardened hits well,what trouble should they be to Zoro?


----------



## Shinthia (Feb 13, 2013)

Raikiri19 said:


> Smoker,who has a great endurance,but not better than Zoro's,*tanked Vergo's CoA Hardened hits well*,what trouble should they be to Zoro?



yes, that means Vergo did not one shoot/stomp Smoker. 
Btw, Vergo broke Smoker's CoA jutti in one swing .


----------



## Anata no Tenshi (Feb 13, 2013)

zoro stomps. this is like comparing coby to whitebeard.


----------



## Reality (Feb 13, 2013)

Ryuksgelus said:


> Don't know why you're explaining this to me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Seemed like you needed an explanation


Then you don't understand how Law's devil fruit works. Even if Virgo used CoA on his "Whole" body, it wouldn't make a difference because Law's Devil fruit ignores durability.

Mihawk did cut the Ice berg with Raw physical force...

Before Virgo had been "Cut" in two, you must remember that Virgo never gave Law a chance to use His devil fruit, he had "Law's" heart. Again, you didn't understand my post. Law's Devil fruit (which covered the island) was able to slice Virgo in half, to add more he used haki which made it even easier. You seem to not understand the concept that "Law's" Devil fruit completely ignores "Durability". 

When did I ever state that Law has "Mountain Level" Durability ?

I'm Pretty sure when your Devil fruit grants you the ability to create a spherical space or "room" that engulfs an island lets you slice anything with little to no effort at all. Virgo wasn't able to escape his "Range" and thus was bisected in two.

Are you claiming that "Whitebeard" would be able to "Withstand" Law's Mountain slice with no evidence at all ? your comment holds no water at all. You are implying that law's slash wouldn't have any effects on whitebeard whatsoever. Do you have any evidence ? speculations are irrelevant while panel feats and evidence are more important. 

Smoker also insinuated that sufficient mastery with Haki may grant some resistance. Albeit, Law was able to bisect Virgo in half even after Virgo transmitted Haki throughout his entire body, Indicating that Law's skill has surpassed Virgo's which is highly unlikely. Other then haki, the Ope Ope no Mi might have been the "Thing" that "actually bisected Virgo, although haki was also a factor.

Doflamingo never stated that Law had to grow before he is able to cut "Through" his "Haki". He insinuated that pissing off Virgo was the factor that led to his beat down. Doflamingo also "Assumed" that Law wouldn't be able to cut through Virgo's "Haki", he never made it clear that Law had to grow in order to overcome his "Haki", although I can imagine before the time skip, Law wouldn't have been able to cut through Virgo's defense.

I want to let you in on something. Law's Devil fruit ignores durability.


----------



## Pink Matter (Feb 13, 2013)

@tupadre, no shit the only damage you saw on Vergo was on his face. That's the area he got hit the most and he's fully clothed from the neck down. How do you expect to see any bruises or wounds on Vergo through his uniform? For the last time, Vergo didn't break Sanji's leg, otherwise it'd be in two different pieces. It was a crack, stop overplaying it. 

As for the Law feat, c'mon...Vergo had Law's heart and had him on his knees even before hitting him. Not even a valid argument.


----------



## Pink Matter (Feb 13, 2013)

Reality said:


> Seemed like you needed an explanation
> 
> 
> Then you don't understand how Law's devil fruit works. Even if Virgo used CoA on his "Whole" body, it wouldn't make a difference because Law's Devil fruit ignores durability.
> ...



Doflamingo made it quite clear that Law's durability-nullifying DF wasn't able to cut through Vergo's CoA defense in the past, this implies that Law attempted to use his DF on Vergo but to no avail and got his ass whooped as a result. Since then, Law's improved in physical strength, DF mastery, and has developed Haki which finally allowed him to break Vergo's own Haki.


----------



## KST (Feb 13, 2013)

Since i believe that Sanji could take Vergo in a serious  rematch, i think zoro could do the same.


----------



## tupadre97 (Feb 13, 2013)

Pink Matter said:


> @tupadre, no shit the only damage you saw on Vergo was on his face. That's the area he got hit the most and he's fully clothed from the neck down. How do you expect to see any bruises or wounds on Vergo through his uniform? For the last time, Vergo didn't break Sanji's leg, otherwise it'd be in two different pieces. It was a crack, stop overplaying it.
> 
> As for the Law feat, c'mon...Vergo had Law's heart and had him on his knees even before hitting him. Not even a valid argument.



 Ur just gonna keep believing that Zoro can win even tho u have no proof huh? Whatever I can't change every fools mind.


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## zorokuma (Feb 13, 2013)

zoro is taking this, people who say he cracked sanjis leg so he should beat zoro isnt using common sense.  sanji blocks with his legs, zoro blocks with swords.  swords. zoro is also a durable monster. he was durable as hell preskip so just imagine him now.


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## Viper (Feb 13, 2013)

Fucking Zolo nerds.


----------



## Pink Matter (Feb 13, 2013)

tupadre97 said:


> Ur just gonna keep believing that Zoro can win even tho u have no proof huh? Whatever I can't change every fools mind.



Says the guy who bases nearly all of his arguments on wrongly interpreted feats (e.g. Vergo cracking not breaking Sanji leg) and ignores or brushes away anything that goes against your argument (e.g. Only his face was bruised even though we can't see he rest of his body and who cares about blood even though it clearly means you're hurt?)

Your arguments:
Vergo beats Zoro because he broke Sanji's leg with a single kick. But, Sanji's leg was not broken.
Vergo beats Zoro because he beat Law. But, he considerably weakened Law by squeezing his heart a handful of times. Law then proceeded to bifurcate Vergo promptly after getting his heart back.
Vergo beats Zoro because he beat Smoker. Smoker was just distracting Vergo so Law could get his heart back. 

What else you got?


----------



## Ryuksgelus (Feb 13, 2013)

Reality said:


> Then you don't understand how Law's devil fruit works. Even if Virgo used CoA on his "Whole" body, it wouldn't make a difference because Law's Devil fruit ignores durability.



Of course it makes a difference. If his whole body is covered there are no openings for shambles to work. What you don't seem to understand. Something Doflomingo made very clear in the manga leaving no room for error is that hardening can protect you from Law's hax.  Hell it was obvious before that when he was unable to cut Smoker's Jutte. Smoker actually parried a blow that then sliced nearby rock structures.



> Mihawk did cut the Ice berg with Raw physical force...



.....Ohhh K. 



> Before Virgo had been "Cut" in two, you must remember that Virgo never gave Law a chance to use His devil fruit, he had "Law's" heart. Again, you didn't understand my post. Law's Devil fruit *(which covered the island) *was able to slice Virgo in half, to add more he used haki which made it even easier. *You seem to not understand the concept that "Law's" Devil fruit completely ignores "Durability". *



It's hard to take you seriously if you really believe that. It covered the facility and some nearby mountains. The entire island is far larger than what he cut.

That is actually just an assumption. 



> When did I ever state that Law has "Mountain Level" Durability ?



My explanation of Law's ability is that room allows his cutting power to transfer perfectly to everything in the cuts path. Since Vergo was the sturdiest thing in the swings path some rock was easily dealt. Law doesn't need mountain slicing strength to cut a mountain since the swing isn't loosing energy as it slices the mountain. 



> I'm Pretty sure when your Devil fruit grants you the ability to create a spherical space or "room" that engulfs an island lets you slice anything with little to no effort at all. Virgo wasn't able to escape his "Range" and thus was bisected in two.



He also charged him blindly because he thought it wouldn't work. He thought he wouldn't be bisected from experience. It clearly failed to work in the past. 



> Are you claiming that "Whitebeard" would be able to "Withstand" Law's Mountain slice with no evidence at all ? your comment holds no water at all. You are implying that law's slash wouldn't have any effects on whitebeard whatsoever. Do you have any evidence ? speculations are irrelevant while panel feats and evidence are more important.



He'll see how well Shambles works on Big Mam or Kaidou soon so relax. 



> Smoker also insinuated that sufficient mastery with Haki may grant some resistance. Albeit, Law was able to bisect Virgo in half even after Virgo transmitted Haki throughout his entire body, *Indicating that Law's skill has surpassed Virgo's which is highly unlikely. *Other then haki, the Ope Ope no Mi might have been the "Thing" that "actually bisected Virgo, although haki was also a factor.



lol what!? That was the entire purpose of the scene. Doflomingo thought Vergo would decimate Law but Law exceeded their expectations. 

So you totally exclude physical force and swordsmanship from the equation.



> Doflamingo never stated that Law had to grow before he is able to cut "Through" his "Haki". He insinuated that pissing off Virgo was the factor that led to his beat down. *Doflamingo also "Assumed" that Law wouldn't be able to cut through Virgo's "Haki", he never made it clear that Law had to grow in order to overcome his "Haki", *although I can imagine before the time skip, *Law wouldn't have been able to cut through Virgo's defense.*



I'm done. Contradictory statements much? It's made quite clear Law was too weak to cut Vergo in the past. Now he is not.


----------



## Reality (Feb 13, 2013)

Pink Matter said:


> Doflamingo made it quite clear that Law's durability-nullifying DF wasn't able to cut through Vergo's CoA defense in the past, this implies that Law attempted to use his DF on Vergo but to no avail and got his ass whooped as a result. Since then, Law's improved in physical strength, DF mastery, and has developed Haki which finally allowed him to break Vergo's own Haki.



Not really, Doflamingo reminds Law of a beating that Vergo gave him some time ago. Virgo's haki should be above Law's, his Devil was the important factor that contributated to the ''Slash''.Unless you want to provide a scan of Doflamingo stating that Law wasn't able to break through Virgo's haki. Law was a fledging compared to Virgo, we don't even know if he had ''haki''.

We don't even know if Law used his ''Devil fruit'' against virgo in the past. Doflamingo only assumed Law's cutting ability is useless against Virgo's Haki, that much said it would be wiser not to state such a thing.


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## Coruscation (Feb 13, 2013)

> That [Law's fruit ignores durability] is actually just an assumption.



We've seen him slice through seastone which is as hard as diamond by just moving his sword. I'm pretty sure that it ignores durability, or more accurately, what he really does isn't even cutting like I said in an earlier post. The sword is just a medium for him. The only thing that can defend is Haki. I think it also has to be this way for it to make sense that Haki also protects from Shambles.


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## Pink Matter (Feb 13, 2013)

Reality said:


> Not really, Doflamingo reminds Law of a beating that Vergo gave him some time ago. Virgo's haki should be above Law's, his Devil was the important factor that contributated to the ''Slash''.Unless you want to provide me of a scan of Doflamingo stating that Law wasn't able to break through Virgo's haki. Law was a fledging compared to Virgo, we don't even know if he had ''haki''.
> 
> We don't even know if Law used his ''Devil fruit'' against virgo in the past. Doflamingo assumed Law's cutting ability is useless against Virgo's Haki, that much said it would be wiser not to state such a thing.



So you think Law simply used his sword against Vergo? Sure, that's definitely possible but highly unlikely imo since Law's never been portrayed to extensively use pure swordsmanship in a fight. He's not an idiot and should know that Vergo was a far superior opponent at that time so it doesn't make a lot of sense for him not use his DF.


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## tupadre97 (Feb 13, 2013)

zorokuma said:


> zoro is taking this, people who say he cracked sanjis leg so he should beat zoro isnt using common sense.  sanji blocks with his legs, zoro blocks with swords.  swords. zoro is also a durable monster. he was durable as hell preskip so just imagine him now.



Who cares how durable Zoro is. Once his swords get broken, which they definitely will, he's gonna get his ass beat.


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## zorokuma (Feb 13, 2013)

tupadre97 said:


> Who cares how durable Zoro is. Once his swords get broken, which they definitely will, he's gonna get his ass beat.



yea cause zoro swords are gonna break.......


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## tupadre97 (Feb 13, 2013)

Pink Matter said:


> Says the guy who bases nearly all of his arguments on wrongly interpreted feats (e.g. Vergo cracking not breaking Sanji leg) and ignores or brushes away anything that goes against your argument (e.g. Only his face was bruised even though we can't see he rest of his body and who cares about blood even though it clearly means you're hurt?)
> 
> Your arguments:
> Vergo beats Zoro because he broke Sanji's leg with a single kick. But, Sanji's leg was not broken.
> ...



Wtf are u talking about? U still havent given any reason as to how Zoro him. Since u wanna simplify my arguement I'll give u two reasons as to why Zoro can't win. Vergo is much stronger than him, and he is much more durable than him. Thats it, thats all the reason u need as to why Vergo would win. In every other category they're equal but those two advantages give Vergo the win every time.


zorokuma said:


> yea cause zoro swords are gonna break.......


Of course they will. If Vergo can break Smoker's jutte he can damn sure break Zoro's swords and when that happens its all over.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 13, 2013)

Lol at zoros swords breaking


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## tupadre97 (Feb 13, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Lol at zoros swords breaking



So I guess Zoro has better CoA than Smoker now? Seems legit...


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## Extravlad (Feb 13, 2013)

> So I guess Zoro has better CoA than Smoker now? Seems legit...


According wankers Zoro has better CoA than Luffy


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## Typhon (Feb 13, 2013)

Zoro's swords have plot protection. They're not breaking, but Vergo still wins (High diff). Even if you downplay it, Vergo has the strength to crack bones with normal attacks. Zoro isn't going to go just tanking multiple shots from Vergo when he actually lands his CoA hardend attacks. 

Plus there's no way Vergo's getting slashed that easily when he can dodge (Dodged Smoker even with all the faints and stuff and has speed comparable to Law teleporting items), block (Even Luffy did this awhile ago, it's not hard to block a sword if you aim for the hilt or back side. Plus he blocked a slash from Tashigi effortlessly), and can counter attack with his bamboo which is strong enough to break through Smoker's juute.


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## Pink Matter (Feb 13, 2013)

tupadre97 said:


> Wtf are u talking about? U still havent given any reason as to how Zoro him. Since u wanna simplify my arguement I'll give u two reasons as to why Zoro can't win. Vergo is much stronger than him, and he is much more durable than him. Thats it, thats all the reason u need as to why Vergo would win. In every other category they're equal but those two advantages give Vergo the win every time.
> 
> Of course they will. If Vergo can break Smoker's jutte he can damn sure break Zoro's swords and when that happens its all over.



Prove Vergo's much stronger and more durable than Zoro.


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## Reality (Feb 13, 2013)

Pink Matter said:


> So you think Law simply used his sword against Vergo? Sure, that's definitely possible but highly unlikely imo since Law's never been portrayed to extensively use pure swordsmanship in a fight. He's not an idiot and should know that Vergo was a far superior opponent at that time so it doesn't make a lot of sense for him not use his DF.



He should of used his Devil fruit against virgo in the past, although we don't know if he had the chance of using ''Room'' against virgo seeing as how Virgo speedblizted a more powerful version of Law a couple of chapters back, that much said, it would'nt have been too hard to beat Pts Virgo.

The slash that biffurcated Virgo was mostly due to his ''Devil fruit'', Haki did play a role though.


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## Lycka (Feb 13, 2013)

zoros swords breaking is a no-go. 


and comparing smokers jutted(which has been broken before, by a weak ass kick from Hancock)
provides evidence that it isn't even nearly on the same scale as zoros swrods in the durability department.


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## Lycka (Feb 13, 2013)

tupadre97 said:


> Wtf are u talking about? U still havent given any reason as to how Zoro him. Since u wanna simplify my arguement I'll give u two reasons as to why Zoro can't win. Vergo is much stronger than him, and he is much more durable than him. Thats it, thats all the reason u need as to why Vergo would win. In every other category they're equal but those two advantages give Vergo the win every time.
> 
> Of course they will. If Vergo can break Smoker's jutte he can damn sure break Zoro's swords and when that happens its all over.



physically zoro is stronger than luffy, it's the momentum thanks to his fruit that allows him to pack a harder punch.


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## TrolonoaZoro (Feb 13, 2013)

Hancock's ability ignore durability as it made it rock with touch and just easier to crack. But no, Zoro's sword said to be world class wouldn't crack like any other steel invention.


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## Ryuksgelus (Feb 13, 2013)

Coruscation said:


> *We've seen him slice through seastone which is as hard as diamond by just moving his sword.* I'm pretty sure that it ignores durability, or more accurately, what he really does isn't even cutting like I said in an earlier post. The sword is just a medium for him. The only thing that can defend is Haki. I think it also has to be this way for it to make sense that Haki also protects from Shambles.



So cuffs are solid seastone? Always figured they were the same material as ship hulls. Just a coating of seastone.


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## Coruscation (Feb 13, 2013)

They were chains, which I assume are wholly made of it. We don't know for sure the concentration or make-up but if something is said to be seastone, we should sooner assume it is made of seastone than steel with a slight addition of it. Especially given that seastone is presumably be the main way to keep powerful criminals captured given that such people can break steel like it's not even there.

(Also, when Luffy broke out of the cage Franky commented by saying "it's not made of seastone" further indicating that the chains are just that).


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 13, 2013)

tupadre97 said:


> So I guess Zoro has better CoA than Smoker now? Seems legit...



No but High Class Grade Swords>>>>>Random Unknown Material Smoker's jutte is made out of in terms of hardness intil further notice.


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## Typhon (Feb 13, 2013)

OPtiers said:


> physically zoro is stronger than luffy, it's the momentum thanks to his fruit that allows him to pack a harder punch.



There's never been an isntance of Zoro being stronger then Luffy. As a matter of fact, Luffy has strength feats that outclass Zoro's.


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## Lycka (Feb 13, 2013)

tell me what's harder.

1.)punching a hole through a drywall.
                            or
2.) using a sword, slashing the air, and generating enough force blow a hole through the drywall.




Zoro's casual 360 pound cannon blasted a hole bigger,(than the sunny) through an animal 100's of times bigger than the Sunny.

compare zoros casual attack a 360 pound cannaon to a casual attack from luffy (a jet pistol) and what damage does his jet pistol do again. break moneys snow? some layers of rock?


lol.


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## Lycka (Feb 13, 2013)

zoro:

 global-4-lvs-colossus.opera-mini.net/hs07-06/9304/0/-1/25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lyedojEUdO1qzyd9ro1_1280.png


luffy:


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## tupadre97 (Feb 14, 2013)

tupadre97 said:


> Thread should end right here but with all these Zolo wankers u know its gonna last like 3 more pages.



Totally called it. Three pages later and they're still wanking Zoro.


Pink Matter said:


> Prove Vergo's much stronger and more durable than Zoro.


 I already did


OPtiers said:


> zoros swords breaking is a no-go.
> 
> 
> and comparing smokers jutted(which has been broken before, by a *weak ass kick *from Hancock)
> provides evidence that it isn't even nearly on the same scale as zoros swrods in the durability department.



Ur calling Hancocks kick weak? U obviously have no idea wtf ur talking about.


----------



## Lycka (Feb 14, 2013)

the kick she used was with no effort visibly shown. I can tell you confidently a jet pistol from a post TS luffy wouldn't break Zoros sword and is stronger than a casual kick from Hancock.


also tell me what's harder 1 or 2.


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## Pink Matter (Feb 14, 2013)

@tupadre, stating a bunch of bs isn't proving anything.


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## Typhon (Feb 14, 2013)

OPtiers said:


> tell me what's harder.
> 
> 1.)punching a hole through a drywall.
> or
> ...



The pound cannon is a sword technique. That doesn't count... Plus what you said after is bull.

I can easily bring up a scan of Luffy's casual jet pistol wrecking a pacifista, which is way more durable then that fish through common sense.


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## tupadre97 (Feb 15, 2013)

Pink Matter said:


> @tupadre, stating a bunch of bs isn't proving anything.



The same could be said about ur argument


----------



## zorokuma (Feb 15, 2013)

wait, did tupacdre97 just say he proved vergo is more durable than zoro? are u secretly oda? cause last I checked we dont know how durable post time skip zoro is. we can just speculate on how extremely durable pre timeskip zoro was.


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## Pink Matter (Feb 15, 2013)

tupadre97 said:


> The same could be said about ur argument



And this helps your argument how?


----------



## tupadre97 (Feb 15, 2013)

zorokuma said:


> wait, did tupacdre97 just say he proved vergo is more durable than zoro? are u secretly oda? cause last I checked we dont know how durable post time skip zoro is. we can just speculate on how extremely durable pre timeskip zoro was.



Oh come on do u really think Zoro can tank two Dj kicks from Sanji, a counter shock from Law and several hits from Smoker with virtually no damage? There is no way Zoro is that strong now and if u think he is then ur a wanker, its as simple as that.


----------



## Pink Matter (Feb 15, 2013)

tupadre97 said:


> Oh come on do u really think Zoro can tank two Dj kicks from Sanji, a counter shock from Law and several hits from Smoker with virtually no damage? There is no way Zoro is that strong now and if u think he is then ur a wanker, its as simple as that.



Except he was visibly wounded, oh wait but you don't think bleeding profusely counts as damage because it doesnt serve you so never mind.


----------



## zorokuma (Feb 15, 2013)

tupadre97 said:


> Oh come on do u really think Zoro can tank two Dj kicks from Sanji, a counter shock from Law and several hits from Smoker with virtually no damage? There is no way Zoro is that strong now and if u think he is then ur a wanker, its as simple as that.



welll Vergo looked wounded to me.


also, go read over triller bark and keep in mind that its a much much weaker version of zoro.


----------



## Lawliet (Feb 15, 2013)

tupadre97 said:


> Oh come on do u really think Zoro can tank two Dj kicks from Sanji, a counter shock from Law and several hits from Smoker with virtually no damage? There is no way Zoro is that strong now and if u think he is then ur a wanker, its as simple as that.



You clearly don't know how tank Zoro is lol.

The dude tanked a kick from Oarz or whatever, and kept fighting in TB, fought Kuma afterwards, ursus shock did not knock him out, he was still able to stand and attack. he took all of Luffy's damage + the one he already had.

He took a straight slash to the chest from the WSS, and was able to fight in the arlong Arc afterwards and actually beat his opponent. 

He was able to fight in Shaboady and actually beat a pacfista with his crew even after what happened in TB.

Yeah, Zoro has no chance in tanking two Dj kicks from Sanji, a counter shock from Law and several hits from Smoker.


----------



## zorokuma (Feb 15, 2013)

oOLawlietOo said:


> You clearly don't know how tank Zoro is lol.
> 
> The dude tanked a kick from Oarz or whatever, and kept fighting in TB, fought Kuma afterwards, ursus shock did not knock him out, he was still able to stand and attack. he took all of Luffy's damage + the one he already had.
> 
> ...



and these are all preskip.  who knows what this guy is gonna be tanking post skip.


----------



## tupadre97 (Feb 15, 2013)

Pink Matter said:


> Except he was visibly wounded, oh wait but you don't think bleeding profusely counts as damage because it doesnt serve you so never mind.



Only his face was bruised besides that he was perfectly fine and who cares about bleeding anyway? Thats like saying Garp was hurt by Luffy's punch in Marineford bcuz he bled, thats retarded.


zorokuma said:


> welll Vergo looked wounded to me.
> 
> 
> also, go read over triller bark and keep in mind that its a much much weaker version of zoro.


Zoro's durability was very high multi city block back then so its probably town level+ now. Still I dont see how that will save him from Vergo.


oOLawlietOo said:


> You clearly don't know how tank Zoro is lol.
> 
> The dude tanked a kick from Oarz or whatever, and kept fighting in TB, fought Kuma afterwards, ursus shock did not knock him out, he was still able to stand and attack. he took all of Luffy's damage + the one he already had.
> 
> ...


Who cares how much damage he took in TB, Vergo can easily dish out far more damage than that. And also him still being able to beat Hachi after he gut cut by Mihawk is also irrelevant, Hachi wasnt that strong to begin with so who cares. And again who cares if he was still able to fight in Shabondy, he just has very high endurance.

And as for tanking the damage Vergo took I said that Zoro wouldnt be able to be hit by all those attacks and take virtually no damage like Vergo. He wouldnt get KO'd by those attacks but he would be hurt way more by those attacks then Vergo.


zorokuma said:


> and these are all preskip.  who knows what this guy is gonna be tanking post skip.


However strong his durability is now, theres no way its as strong as Vergo's. Unlike Vergo he would take way more damage than what Vergo took.


----------



## Lawliet (Feb 15, 2013)

I'm not saying Zoro is not getting any damage at all, and it's not like Vergo did not get any damage at all either, he was bleeding if  I recall right.

and the damage vergo received from sanji and smoker and a counter shock from law is less than all the damage Zoro got in TB.


----------



## Pink Matter (Feb 15, 2013)

@tupadre, except that's a retarded example. Garp was leagues stronger than Luffy then. Vergo is nowhere near Garp level and /Smoker should at least be low VA level. Honestly it's not so much people are wanking Zoro as you're wanking Vergo. Your claim that Vergo is so much stronger than post-ts Sanji and Smoker that its similar to the gap in power between Garp and pre-ts Luffy is laughable at best. You really outdid yourself this time.


----------



## Lycka (Feb 15, 2013)

Omnation said:


> *The pound cannon is a sword technique.* That doesn't count... Plus what you said after is bull.
> 
> I can easily bring up a scan of *Luffy's casual jet pistol wrecking a pacifista, which is way more durable then that fish* through common sense.



And that matters, why again. if usopp knew how to use that 'technique' could he replicate the feat?

if not, shut up.


didn't Zoro cleave that in half without haki (irrc), and a no named slash. Where as, luffy had to use G2 *and* haki?


----------



## tupadre97 (Feb 15, 2013)

oOLawlietOo said:


> I'm not saying Zoro is not getting any damage at all, and it's not like Vergo did not get any damage at all either, he was bleeding if  I recall right.
> 
> *and the damage vergo received from sanji and smoker and a counter shock from law is less than all the damage Zoro got in TB.*



Are u kidding me? One kick from Sanji is greater than all that damage from TB combined. TB Zoro didnt have town level durability gtfo with that shit. Pacifistas dont even have town level durability and u expect me to believe that Zoro does? Come on stop with the wanking guys.

And Vergo was barely damaged from any of those fights. Bleeding pretty much means nothing in One Piece, unless like I said b4 u think Garp was hurt by Luffy's punch in Marineford.


Pink Matter said:


> @tupadre, except that's a retarded example. Garp was leagues stronger than Luffy then. Vergo is nowhere near Garp level and /Smoker should at least be low VA level. Honestly it's not so much people are wanking Zoro as you're wanking Vergo. Your claim that Vergo is so much stronger than post-ts Sanji and Smoker that its similar to the gap in power between Garp and pre-ts Luffy is laughable at best. You really outdid yourself this time.



 Wow ur just trolling at this point. I'm not responding to any of ur idiotic posts anymore until u have something smart to say that pertains to the actual topic.


----------



## Extravlad (Feb 15, 2013)

Vergo was the strongest fighter in PH he lost against Law because Law ignores durability.


----------



## Pink Matter (Feb 15, 2013)

@tupadre, The pot calls the kettle black. I'm sorry I make too much sense for you to comprehend.


----------



## Typhon (Feb 15, 2013)

OPtiers said:


> And that matters, why again. *if usopp knew how to use that 'technique' could he replicate the feat?*
> 
> if not, shut up.
> 
> ...



My point is that it doesn't prove Zoro is stronger then Luffy. There's nothing concrete proving Zoro is stronger then Luffy. 

The bold is just 

It was never said if the other two used haki like Luffy but through common sense, they would have to if he did. Sanji didn't name his attack but we know it was a diable janbe...


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## Lycka (Feb 15, 2013)

did I talk about sanji?



even with haki zoro used a no-name slash and luffy used one of his most prominent attacks.



physically: zoro>luffy.


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## Pyro (Feb 16, 2013)

OPtiers said:


> did I talk about sanji?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Oh please. Explain how you know this.


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## Sanji (Feb 16, 2013)

OPtiers said:


> physically: zoro>luffy.



lolnope. Nothing in the manga can prove this.


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## Reality (Feb 16, 2013)

Ryuksgelus said:


> Of course it makes a difference. If his whole body is covered there are no openings for shambles to work. What you don't seem to understand. Something Doflomingo made very clear in the manga leaving no room for error is that hardening can protect you from Law's hax.  Hell it was obvious before that when he was unable to cut Smoker's Jutte. Smoker actually parried a blow that then sliced nearby rock structures.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




What are you mentioning shambles ? Why would law want to separate Virgo with inanimate objects ? 

You seem to not understand that Law's Devil fruit "Ignores" durability. In addition to his Devil fruit, Law has "Haki" which would make his "Slashes" more efficient. Mastery of Haki may offer some resistance. But in spite of this, Law was able to dismember Vergo. The slash that sliced Virgo in two was mostly due to his Devil fruit, albeit, Haki did play a role.

There are two "Islands" in Punk Hazard. The burning island and the Frozen Island. The island is surrounded by a sea of fire on one side and icebergs on the other. I was referring to the "Cold" part of the island


Surprisingly, an actual island probably has to be large enough for a person to stand on it, let us say, at least a square meter. The "Cold" part of Punk Hazard is more than enough to be considered an "Island".

Why would "Law" need mountain level strength when his "Devil fruit" ignores "Durability" ? Anyone with complete mastery of the "Ope Ope No mi" would have been able to replicate the feat.

Virgo's arrogance was the factor that led to his downfall. Virgo never charged blindly (Unless you're speaking figuratively) he was concentrating on Law .
Law's "Room" was too large, Virgo had no chance of escaping. 
Also, you can't use that as an excuse because that is what the "Author" intended fo to happen. 

Why are you bringing up 2 characters we have yet to see ?


Do you honestly believe "Human skin" is more durable than "Steel" ? Any human within the range of the "Ope Ope no mi" would get sliced, even "Whitebeard". In other words, Law can cut through flesh and bone like hot knife through butter. Though, it wouldn't really matter because his "Devil fruit" ability disregards "Durability"

I don't exclude swordsmanship and physical force. Besides "Haki", He doesn't any factors because his "Devil fruit" ignores "Durability".


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## Lycka (Feb 16, 2013)

Pyro said:


> Oh please. Explain how you know this.



portrayal boy.

look at Monet vs luffy. then zoro vs Monet.


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## TrainerRed (Feb 17, 2013)

This shit went 10 pages. LMAO!


I'm fucking dead! :rofl


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## Reality (Feb 17, 2013)

RedDogAkainu said:


> This shit went 10 pages. LMAO!
> 
> 
> I'm fucking dead! :rofl



How did this happen ?


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## TrainerRed (Feb 17, 2013)

^Oda made Zoro wayyyyy too fucking badass so many of his fans can't envision such a manly and near flawless character like him losing...ever.

pity.


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## TrainerRed (Feb 17, 2013)

Zoro is basically the definition of what it means to be _"invincible"_ so him getting a hakified bamboo stick shoved up his ass doesn't sit well with a lot of these guys lol.

...but yeah Vergo should take this high-diff. That whole "Slicing>>Blunt Force" nonsense isn't working here. You guys really think Oda applies real world logic to One Piece? LOL 

Zoro's cuts are doing just as much damage as Sanji's DJ....which is pretty much no damage at all


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## Shinthia (Feb 17, 2013)

OPtiers said:


> did I talk about sanji?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Luffy fucking destroyed 2 building without using his DF


But, Zoro could not destroy the chimney by physical force, he needed his sword to cut that.


If anything Physically : Luffy > > Zoro


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## Lycka (Feb 17, 2013)

terrible showing zoro could lift a house weighing at minimum 30 tons (average 2 story house weight) while being literally at the brink of death literally.than he threw it which requires much more than just being able to lift those 30 tons of weight. that feat requires more physical force than being able to push two buildings apart.

 (a bulldozer could have replicated luffys feat)


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## TrainerRed (Feb 17, 2013)

^^^ A sad and desperate answer. I applaud you.


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## Imagine (Feb 17, 2013)

OPtiers said:


> portrayal boy.
> 
> look at Monet vs luffy. then zoro vs Monet.


So portrayal tells us Zoro > Luffy? Good to know.


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## Lycka (Feb 17, 2013)

RedDogAkainu said:


> ^^^ A sad and desperate answer. I applaud you.



all you do is bitch and moan about zoro, because sanji is always either never in the limelight or always degraded.

shut up.


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## SuperSpider (Feb 17, 2013)

Smoker was either
A.barely weaker than vergo
B.equal to vergo
C.barely stronger than vergo

We know Smoker>Zoro by quite a bit regardless of zoros current feats because thats just how the story is so no Zoro cannot beat vergo. Maybe in 2 more arcs.


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## Imagine (Feb 17, 2013)

> We know Smoker>Zoro by quite a bit


Nothing in the story has told us this.


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## SuperSpider (Feb 17, 2013)

Smoker is Luffy's rival. It is just obvious that Smoker and Luffy are close in power. Zoro is NOT Luffy's rival. Zoro is his subordinate/underling and he follows Luffy because Luffy is better than him. Oda has shown this with his manga.


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## Klauser (Feb 17, 2013)

SuperSpider said:


> Smoker is Luffy's rival. It is just obvious that Smoker and Luffy are close in power. Zoro is NOT Luffy's rival. Zoro is his subordinate/underling and he follows Luffy because Luffy is better than him. Oda has shown this with his manga.



He didn't follow Luffy because he's weaker than him, but was kind of blackmailed into joining.In WP when they fought they wanted to know who was the strongest between them, kind of like two rivals, so really I have to disagree with you there.

And you wrongly assume that rivals are always near equal.Smoker was leagues above Luffy pre-skip, and from what we've seen this arc we can't wonder but to rank him clearly below Luffy.It's not like everyone and their mother have the exact same growth rate.

It's like in this forum people usually use the term post-skip for fighters like Marco, Akainu or even Hancock.What's the point of a time-skip if in the same time the Admirals and everyone else progresses too...
Someone like Smoker can't have the same growth rate as Luffy or Zoro.Even if he's still young he's not young enough and don't have enough plot backing him.That's why the majority assumed he was the strongest on PH, while actually he was everyone's punching ball.He even needs a power boost right now if he wants to stay relevant later on.So it's not too far-fetched to assume that he might be around current Zoro level, maybe even weaker if he has to start a training camp with his pal Aojiki.


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## Tony Stark (Feb 17, 2013)

SuperSpider said:


> Smoker was either
> A.barely weaker than vergo
> B.equal to vergo
> C.barely stronger than vergo
> ...



Wow dude what did you smoke today?


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## Imagine (Feb 17, 2013)

SuperSpider said:


> Smoker is Luffy's rival. It is just obvious that Smoker and Luffy are close in power. Zoro is NOT Luffy's rival. Zoro is his subordinate/underling and he follows Luffy because Luffy is better than him. Oda has shown this with his manga.


No one is saying Zoro is Luffy's rival. He's not. But Smoker is obviously weaker than Luffy. And Zoro and Luffy ARE close to each other in power.


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## Sayonara (Feb 17, 2013)

SuperSpider said:


> We know Smoker>Zoro by quite a bit regardless of zoros current feats because thats just how the story is so no Zoro cannot beat vergo. Maybe in 2 more arcs.



Smoker is going to be top tier, Zoro is going to be top tier and Luffy is going to be the strongest. Smoker being stronger than Zoro or vice versa doesn't harm the storyline so its not really big deal but your going to have to accept the gaps if any would be small. 

A lot of people seem to believe post TS Luffys pulled further ahead but imo it makes more sense that they all stay reasonably within same level while all progressing to that top level. Once there Luffy should prove why he is exceptional and push that little bit further than anyone else. Having Luffy pull away this early would mean the others would have to get more of an asspull power up later or slow down in Luffys growth rate.


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## zorokuma (Feb 18, 2013)

Lionel Messi said:


> Luffy fucking destroyed 2 building without using his DF
> 
> 
> But, Zoro could not destroy the chimney by physical force, he needed his sword to cut that.
> ...



I agree nothing in the manga shows zoro< luffy physically.


but this is a terrible example as to luffy > zoro physically. it just shows that luffy as better strenght feats.


nothing proves that zoro could not destroy the chimney with physical force, he just used the sword because he is a swordsman...obviously.

and nothing proves that he could not do what luffy did, he simply was not in the situation to do so.

so yes luffy has better physical feats but it doesnt prove he is stronger if you understand what I mean. this was pre skip anyway.




On topic, I think Zoro beats Vergo mid diff. why? even though we dont have enough feats on post skip zoro to say why, Im a zoro fan so I choose him. + he should be close to luffy powerwise and I dont see luffy losing to vergo.


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## Lycka (Feb 18, 2013)

zorokuma said:


> I agree nothing in the manga shows zoro< luffy physically.
> 
> 
> but this is a terrible example as to luffy > zoro physically. it just shows that luffy as better strenght feats.
> ...



great post +reps.


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## tupadre97 (Feb 18, 2013)

zorokuma said:


> I agree nothing in the manga shows zoro< luffy physically.
> 
> 
> but this is a terrible example as to luffy > zoro physically. it just shows that luffy as better strenght feats.
> ...



U think Zoro wins bcuz u like him and u say he can win? Thats a terrible argument. The battledome is for popularity contests its to see who would win in a battle or crossover battle if these 2 characters ever fought. Of course they arent ever going to really fight, but the point of this is to have fun imagining if they did. This is no place for your obvious Zoro wanking, just leave if u don't have anything to contribute to the topic.


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## kidgogeta (Feb 18, 2013)

Zoro is still equal to Luffy. Luffy won't pull ahead till the last few arcs. Oda made it too obvious that hes saving Zoro for an arc we all know is coming. He can beat Vergo comfortably as long as he uses Asura or Lion song. His next big enemy is gonna be stronger than Vergo anyway...


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## Klauser (Feb 18, 2013)

tupadre97 said:


> U think Zoro wins bcuz u like him and u say he can win? Thats a terrible argument. The battledome is for popularity contests its to see who would win in a battle or crossover battle if these 2 characters ever fought. Of course they arent ever going to really fight, but the point of this is to have fun imagining if they did. This is no place for your obvious Zoro wanking, just leave if u don't have anything to contribute to the topic.



Stop embarrassing yourself and take some of your own medicine.You and the "Zolo" haters are raiding the battledome arguing he loses against anyone and their mothers because you guys hate him.So really this kind of post coming from the likes of you is rather unbecoming .


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## TrainerRed (Feb 19, 2013)

So Sanji almost gets prison raped but Zoro just comes in and Mid-diffs Vergo...because he has swords. Flawless argument


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## Reality (Feb 19, 2013)

RedDogAkainu said:


> So Sanji almost gets prison raped but Zoro just comes in and Mid-diffs Vergo...because he has swords. Flawless argument



Oh my 11 pages...


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## Shinthia (Feb 19, 2013)

zorokuma said:


> I agree nothing in the manga shows zoro< luffy physically.
> 
> 
> but *this is a terrible example as to luffy > zoro physically. it just shows that luffy as better strenght feats.*
> ...



How this is a terrible example of to luffy > zoro physically, cause i just showed that luffy has better strenght feats. What more do u need ?

Everything proves Zoro could not destroy the chimney without his sword . With sword he can cut it casually but without he cant ,in other words his physical strength was not enough to do the job. Thats why he asked Chopper for the sword.


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## zorokuma (Feb 19, 2013)

tupadre97 said:


> U think Zoro wins bcuz u like him and u say he can win? Thats a terrible argument. The battledome is for popularity contests its to see who would win in a battle or crossover battle if these 2 characters ever fought. Of course they arent ever going to really fight, but the point of this is to have fun imagining if they did. This is no place for your obvious Zoro wanking, just leave if u don't have anything to contribute to the topic.



the "he wins cause i like him" was a joke, because thats what everyone here is doing, they are speculating and making the person they like more win, even though we do not have enough feats to know for sure.


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## Kanki (Feb 19, 2013)

If Vergo attempts to tank Vergo's strongest attack like he did to Law, there's no doubt in my mind that he'd be in shit.


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## Shiny (Feb 19, 2013)

Zoro mid diff,i cant see someone like vergo beating zoro


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## Zorofangirl24 (Mar 27, 2013)

ShinyMarch said:


> Zoro mid diff,i cant see someone like vergo beating zoro



I agree mostly, but I say zoro beats vergo on the higher end of Low diff


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## Indicud (Mar 29, 2013)

If Zoro is given the same opportunity Law had to get a free slash in on Vergo, there is no doubt in my mind Zoro would OHKO him... with a higher end move.


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## Rob (Apr 7, 2013)

I'm not even sure where to Rank Vergo, tbh. 

I felt like he was above the M3 (Individually of course)

But then him losing.... 

Ahh, idk. I'll watch the PH arc in the anime and then have a better grip on Vergo.


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## tanman (Apr 8, 2013)

I would still say Vergo with very high difficulty. Vergo's probably on the same level as Luffy.
Even if Vergo tries to tank, I doubt he would be OHKO'd this time.


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