# Beerus vs. SSJ4 Gogeta



## Gogeta (Mar 17, 2015)

Now, this is my first time posting a thread here (i think) so if i wrote something not right

it is not my intention

So i searched a bit and i saw some threads kind of discussing this matchup but never outright, and since i was interested, here i go

So, here are the rules and conditions

-SSJ4 Gogeta does not run out of fusion whatsoever. If he loses, it's by defeat, not because of him running out of time

-Both characters are serious. That means no Bluff Kamehamehas from SSJ4 Gogeta nor a portion of own's power used by Beerus (AKA Full power used). 

-The only thing they know about each other is that Beerus is a god of destruction, and that SSJ4 Gogeta is a fusion of 2 saiyans ; And that each might be stronger than anything they've faced before. No concrete details on what their techniques/abilities are though.

-No running away or w/e. The fight starts in space, but no running out of oxygen, just that they have infinite space and no collateral damage to be done.

-Altho i kind of said it already, they are out to kill. If either character deems it necessary, they will use their strongest move right of the bat.


Now, i want to say a few things as i feel like there might be questions about it.
SSJ4 Gogeta is not consisted of SSG Goku's power. This SSJ4 Gogeta is consisted of characters that have the same power level they would if the Battle of Gods or the new Revival of F movies didn't exist.
However, all GT powerups/training are still valid.


Since my assumption may be way off, here are 2 more scenarios, and ofcourse, these are all hypothetical 

If SSJ4 Gogeta is stronger than Beerus, put him vs. Whiz. How would he theoretically fair?
If SSJ4 Gogeta is weaker than Beerus, put him vs. SSG Goku. How would he fair then?

Don't think it will actually matter but you can put distance at 10 kilometers. 
Thoughts?


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## Crimson Dragoon (Mar 17, 2015)

since I just know some people are going to forget the GT foodchain:




basically this means:

SSJ4 Gogeta > Omega Shenron > SSJ4 Goku (Limits surpassed) > Syn Shenron > SSJ4 Goku (Super 17/Shadow Dragon Saga) > SSJ4 Goku (Baby Saga) > Golden Oozaru Baby Vegeta > Super Baby Vegeta 2 > Super Baby Vegeta 1 > Super Vegeto

Golden Oozaru is a ten times multiplier at least, possibly more, and Omega is also ten times stronger than his previous Syn form at minimum 

I really don't have an interest in debating who wins or loses though


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## King Kakarot (Mar 17, 2015)

Gogeta shows him who the real "God" is


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## LordPerucho (Mar 17, 2015)

Bills is said to be casually able to destroy 2 suns.


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## Sablés (Mar 17, 2015)

Thread only goes one way

Beers has better feats. Gogeta _may_ be up there with powerscaling.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Mar 17, 2015)

Stop changing his name


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## King Kakarot (Mar 17, 2015)

LordPerucho said:


> Bills is said to be casually able to destroy 2 suns.




is that supposed to be impressive to someone like Gogeta


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## Sablés (Mar 17, 2015)

> Master Roshi: Anyhow Gohan, are you still furthering your training?
> 
> Gohan: S…sorry I haven’t.. But I can still go Super Saiyan! I think..



you've gotta be shitting me.


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## shade0180 (Mar 17, 2015)

> Bills is said to be casually able to destroy 2 suns.



That's not even impressive considering we have Beers peg at SS level

the two s doesn't mean two suns just saying.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Mar 17, 2015)

Liquid said:


> you've gotta be shitting me.



"so my brother and I were talking about sadest anime moment ever
i originally said Jim killing his girlfriend in Outlaw Star
but then I saw the clip of Gohan about to kill Cell, and I was like
thats there
is the saddest moment
so much potential
got flushed down the toilet"

-Qing's friend on skype


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## Expelsword (Mar 17, 2015)

Why isn't GT vs. Z banned?


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## Sablés (Mar 17, 2015)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> "so my brother and I were talking about sadest anime moment ever
> i originally said Jim killing his girlfriend in Outlaw Star
> but then I saw the clip of Gohan about to kill Cell, and I was like
> thats there
> ...



Its fucking tragic

ChiChi confirmed worst mother.



shade0180 said:


> That's not even impressive considering we have Beers peg at SS level
> 
> the two s doesn't mean two suns just saying.



Having feats that lend to the credence of the statement is always nice.

And still nothing GT comes close to, tangibly speaking.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Mar 17, 2015)

Liquid said:


> Its fucking tragic
> 
> ChiChi confirmed worst mother.



at least Vegeta steals the spotlight from John Cenoku

hopefully


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Mar 17, 2015)

This is a shit storm in the making. DB vs GT threads never end well. GT is an inconsistent mess and we really have no idea exactly where Beerus would fit in the GT power hierarchy.


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## Imperator100 (Mar 17, 2015)

Gogeta should be signifigantly faster being FTL to MFTL and should have the DC neccesary to harm Beerus so I'll go with him.  On the off-chance Gogeta doesn't have enough DC/Durability (which I kinda doubt) he can still use his superior speed to absorb Beerus' Ki like Goku did in GT.


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## King Kakarot (Mar 17, 2015)

kid buu in the anime destroyed a galaxy in a few years 

gogeta has more tha enough DC to tangle with beerus


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## Unlosing Ranger (Mar 17, 2015)

Liquid said:


> Its fucking tragic
> 
> ChiChi confirmed worst mother.



[YOUTUBE]c6-4iDuSqyI[/YOUTUBE]


Crimson Dragoon said:


> "so my brother and I were talking about sadest anime moment ever
> i originally said Jim killing his girlfriend in Outlaw Star
> but then I saw the clip of Gohan about to kill Cell, and I was like
> thats there
> ...


 I mean, at this point I'm starting to think Krillin>Gohan
Almost makes you want the androids winning to be canon.


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## Gogeta (Mar 17, 2015)

Also sorry if i have caused a commotion

Not sure how things go around here

Legitimately interested

Also i know feats alone don't really do a character's power justice

As for example
When Nappa used his pussy finger fucker technique he leveled a city

But then we've seen much later into the story blasts that don't do as much collateral damage
But are obviously much much more powerful

So i think taking power levels into account is necessary
Just my take on it


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## Imperator100 (Mar 17, 2015)

Gogeta said:


> Also sorry if i have caused a commotion



Trust me this is nothing compared to the kind of angry arguments DB has caused here before.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Mar 17, 2015)

Gogeta said:


> Also i know feats alone don't really do a character's power justice
> 
> As for example
> When Nappa used his pussy finger fucker technique he leveled a city
> ...



while this is true when it comes to DB, Beers and SSJ4 Gogeta are from two different continuities, so you're gonna have to compare their respective settings against each other 

canon DB has Whis's statement of Beers being a solar system buster

Toeiverse DBZ has the visual representation of a galaxy slowly fading due to Kid Buu's rampage that went on for a "few years"


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## Imperator100 (Mar 17, 2015)

I just checked something. One of the largest stars in the galaxy is W26. I put it's diameter into the Planetary Parameter Calculator and even with 1G Surface Gravity I got 126.8 Foe or well into Solar System Level DC/Durabillity. This would give Anime Buu Solar System+ DC/Durability, on the level or superior to Beerus and he's extremely weak compared to Gogeta.


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## Tacocat (Mar 17, 2015)

Next movie has to be the Resurrection of Gohan's Relevance.


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## Imperator100 (Mar 17, 2015)

Tacocat said:


> Next movie has to be the Resurrection of Gohan's Relevance.



HAHAHAHA!
Good One!


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## Catalyst75 (Mar 17, 2015)

LordPerucho said:


> Bills is said to be casually able to destroy 2 suns.



I am more impressed by the fact that Whis has freakin' time manipulation powers.  He's not simply changing the past either; the phrase "do-over" makes it sound like he rewound the entire universe's clock to keep Beerus from destroying those two suns.

I suppose that might be how he was able to prevent Beerus from destroying the shrine; it already happened once, but he started a "do-over" and kept Beerus from doing so.

And honestly, people getting so uptight over Gohan not continuing his training.  I'm not one of those people who grew up with Dragon Ball Z, but I at least understand that Gohan had other ambitions than just fighting.  

First and foremost, Gohan wanted to grow up to be a scholar, and it was the circumstances of the Saiyans and the Androids that forced him to grow strong as a fighter.  Once the fighting was over, Gohan devoted himself to his studies, so his power would do what any athlete's body does if they do not continually train.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Mar 17, 2015)

Liquid said:


> you've gotta be shitting me.



...

God dammit Toriyama

That running gag wasn't funny the first time, its still not funny now

You'd think the fucker would have some sense of responsibility after his laxness let the events of the Buu Arc occur at all (Goku, who would have been fleshy meat chunks had his son punched him 7 years ago surpassed him [and he'd have kicked Buu's ass had he not thought to leave it to the kids], had he trained even half assed, he'd have been much stronger)

Nah, no lesson learned, I'll pursue my dreams at the expense of everyone else

Then again, I'm kind of doubtful they were his dreams more so than Chichi slowly brainwashing him over his childhood


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## hammer (Mar 17, 2015)

bills throws a flag pole at his leg


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## Dr. White (Mar 17, 2015)

Liquid said:


> you've gotta be shitting me.



I just read this as well. Like What the fuck? Does that imply he doesn't even have Mystic Modo?


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## Atem (Mar 17, 2015)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> while this is true when it comes to DB, Beers and SSJ4 Gogeta are from two different continuities, so you're gonna have to compare their respective settings against each other
> 
> canon DB has Whis's statement of Beers being a solar system buster
> 
> Toeiverse DBZ has the visual representation of a galaxy slowly fading due to Kid Buu's rampage that went on for a "few years"



Then there's Broly wrecking havoc on the South Galaxy. 

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7jEiiT5RDo[/YOUTUBE]

If we include the films too.


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## Ghost (Mar 17, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> I just read this as well. Like What the fuck? Does that imply he doesn't even have Mystic Modo?



Gohan is the most tragic manga/anime character.


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## Atem (Mar 17, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> People argue that Kai then sent Goku to said Galaxy where you can clearly see stars and planets. I haven't seen the movie, but what's the deal with that argument?



Basically, going by the literal translation the galaxy was under attack and it was depopulated by Broly with only smouldering ruins of the civilizations left in it. At least that's what I think. 

Makes more sense, and it's consistent with what see later of Broly rather than him outright destroying the galaxy.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Mar 17, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> Now he can barely go SSJ



Weaker than Krillin.


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## Atem (Mar 17, 2015)

Oh shit son.

Gohan getting smacked talked.


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## hammer (Mar 17, 2015)

gohan is the new yamcha


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## Dr. White (Mar 17, 2015)

Rytlock Brimstone said:


> Basically, going by the literal translation the galaxy was under attack and it was depopulated by Broly with only smouldering ruins of the civilizations left in it. At least that's what I think.
> 
> Makes more sense, and it's consistent with what see later of Broly rather than him outright destroying the galaxy.



Yeah that's a bit contradictory to what were shown. I assume to negate all the light we originally saw in the opening, he would need to be completely destroying Stars and what not, and on a massive scale, but then again I'm no Astrophysicist 

Lol 

Roshi: "Oh Shit Gohan, Buu's not coming. You think you can go SSJ2 real quick?"

Gohan:


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## Atem (Mar 17, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> Yeah that's a bit contradictory to what were shown. I assume to negate all the light we originally saw in the opening, he would need to be completely destroying Stars and what not, and on a massive scale, but then again I'm no Astrophysicist



It was King Kai's vision of what was happening so it was more representative of how all life was dying out in the galaxy I guess. 

That, or Broly did destroy a lot of the suns and left only a few.

Destroying suns is not common though.

When Gohan kills Broly with help from Goku, Goten, and Trunks they shoot him into the sun with a kamehameha but it's fine somehow and that killed him. 

FTL on the other hand is, and even as an infant with a PL of around 10,000 Broly could travel in the empty of vacuum of space and look for other habitable planets.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Mar 17, 2015)

hammer said:


> gohan is the new yamcha



I wouldn't be surprised if Tien is stronger.


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## Atem (Mar 17, 2015)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if Tien is stronger.



Tien does more than Gohan in RoF, and actually manages to fight Frieza to an extent.

Earthlings become relevant again and finally we see Krillin use Destructo Disc effectively. 

#hopelessdreams


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## Featherine (Mar 17, 2015)

That was within expectations, aside from the Time manip.

Poor Gohan though, I still don't understand why the heck they'd want to make him go back to SSJ. His Mystic form was at least something new/fresh, going back to generic golden hair transformations like everyone else. It's just sad imo.


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## Ghost (Mar 17, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> Gohan was supposed to be the GOAT. First to unlock SSJ2, and used to be the strongest non assimilated character in the verse.



Fucking nips robbed us of the great Gohan that would've been. 

"Muh MC Goku"


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## Dr. White (Mar 17, 2015)

Featherine said:


> That was within expectations, aside from the Time manip.
> 
> Poor Gohan though, I still don't understand why the heck they'd want to make him go back to SSJ. His Mystic form was at least something new/fresh, going back to generic golden hair transformations like everyone else. It's just sad imo.



I'd rather see him demoted to Kaio Ken, if anything for aesthetics


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## Atem (Mar 17, 2015)

Saikyou said:


> Fucking nips robbed us of the great Gohan that would've been.
> 
> "Muh MC Goku"



Goku is officially John Cena of the Dragon Ball universe. 

Broly is the cross between Ryback and Brock Lesnar that we need.


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## Featherine (Mar 17, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> I'd rather see him demoted to Kaio Ken, if anything for aesthetics



Yeah, you'd think with all that training they did they'd be able to push the Kaioken limit up. And with the SSJ multipliers apparently being retconned now, pretty sure Kaioken would be somewhat viable.

Besides, it always looked pretty badass, too bad it ended up in the useless closet who's already stuffed with a lot of other things like Krillin/Piccolo&co


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## Crimson King (Mar 17, 2015)

hammer said:


> gohan is the new yamcha



I don't know what this Gohan is, but it sounds disappointing


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## trance (Mar 17, 2015)

Beerus probably wins.


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## Featherine (Mar 17, 2015)

Crimson King said:


> I don't know what this Gohan is, but it sounds like it's going the Yamcha way



FTFY


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## Tacocat (Mar 17, 2015)

Featherine said:


> That was within expectations, aside from the Time manip.
> 
> Poor Gohan though, I still don't understand why the heck they'd want to make him go back to SSJ. His Mystic form was at least something new/fresh, going back to generic golden hair transformations like everyone else. It's just sad imo.



Now that Vegeta will also have pink hair, they need to mitigate the loss of so much gold with Frieza _and_ Gohan.


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## AgentAAA (Mar 17, 2015)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> ...
> 
> God dammit Toriyama
> 
> ...


ehh, to be fair
he doesn't really like fighting.
he doesn't want to fight.

He also doesn't want to have to keep his body constantly on-par just to handle everything that may or may not come in his life, given he wanted to lead a quieter one at that point.
Buu saga you could probably blame on him, but by BoG he saw Goku totally eclipse the power one gets from normal training, vegeta go above him too, and like a normal person probably decided he wanted a normal life at this point.

one could argue it's his responsibility to, but one could also argue that after helping to save the world many times, being the front-man when it came time to kicking cell's ass, and living spending most of his time:
-training to fight
-watching the odd group of friends he's constructed die around him
-being forced to kill once or twice despite having an incredibly pacifist personality
-Literally having no life from the time he was 3 to his teenage years

I think he'd feel he's done his piece.

At the least, I severely doubt he saw something worse than Buu(and later, Beerus) coming, anyway.


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## Dr. White (Mar 17, 2015)

How does one lose the Mystic training though?


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## Featherine (Mar 17, 2015)

Tacocat said:


> Now that Vegeta will also have pink hair, they need to mitigate the loss of so much gold with Frieza _and_ Gohan.



Knowing Akira this might actually be one of the reasons 

Something like "Hmm, if we don't have a few golden haired guys around people might forget that this IS Dragon Ball, let's put Gohan back in the SSJ wagon, for now"


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## trance (Mar 17, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> How does one lose the Mystic training though?



Only Gohan does. 

As a kid, his power was still compared to Goku's and Vegeta's as SSJ2s. As an adult, his SSJ2 strength gets utterly crapped on. That's a pretty drastic decrease in strength. I'm surprised he was able to retain his Ultimate form at all tbh.


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## Nevermind (Mar 17, 2015)

Featherine said:


> Yeah, you'd think with all that training they did they'd be able to push the Kaioken limit up. And with the SSJ multipliers apparently being retconned now, pretty sure Kaioken would be somewhat viable.



I'm thinking that was just promotional shit.

They had Gohan go SSJ in the trailers for BoG too but not in the actual movie. I think it'll be the same this time.


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## Featherine (Mar 17, 2015)

Nevermind said:


> I'm thinking that was just promotional shit.
> 
> They had Gohan go SSJ in the trailers for BoG too but not in the actual movie. I think it'll be the same this time.



Hmm, I guess that could be it. But those RoF manga chapters talk about Gohan actually trying to attain SSJ again. Chances are, this time around the trailer actually shows what'll happen. I guess we'll see, I hope they'll at least come up with *some* reason as to why Mystic isn't a thing anymore.

When is the movie supposed to come out again ?


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## Utopia Realm (Mar 17, 2015)

As for the fight, Beerus by feats hype and portayal. I will slink back to the shadows I suppose.


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## NightmareCinema (Mar 17, 2015)

Featherine said:


> Hmm, I guess that could be it. But those RoF manga chapters talk about Gohan actually trying to attain SSJ again. Chances are, this time around the trailer actually shows what'll happen. I guess we'll see, I hope they'll at least come up with *some* reason as to why Mystic isn't a thing anymore.
> 
> When is the movie supposed to come out again ?



In one month's time.

April 18.


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## Featherine (Mar 17, 2015)

NightmareCinema said:


> In one month's time.
> 
> April 18.



Okay, thanks.


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## xmysticgohanx (Mar 17, 2015)

Imperator100 said:


> I just checked something. One of the largest stars in the galaxy is W26. I put it's diameter into the Planetary Parameter Calculator and even with 1G Surface Gravity I got 126.8 Foe or well into Solar System Level DC/Durabillity. This would give Anime Buu Solar System+ DC/Durability, on the level or superior to Beerus and he's extremely weak compared to Gogeta.



Given this, Gogeta seems to be the winner.


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## Extravlad (Mar 17, 2015)

Feats are irrelevant.
Super Saiyan God should be a lot stronger than Super Saiyan 4 and Bills kicked Goku's ass pretty easily.


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## creative (Mar 17, 2015)

if GT still holds any merit, I can believe SSJ4 can touch Beers by a hair before getting blown the fuck out. thought battle of the gods basically retconed GT anyways so who even cares?


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## Crimson Dragoon (Mar 17, 2015)

GT was never part of manga canon in the first place anyhow


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## Atem (Mar 18, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> Feats are irrelevant.
> Super Saiyan God should be a lot stronger than Super Saiyan 4 and Bills kicked Goku's ass pretty easily.



If we go by DBXV yeah. Since that treats Demon God Demigra >>> GT Saga characters, and he is able to control them even beyond the grave or whatever. 

However, pretty sure we aren't.


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## The Weeknd (Mar 18, 2015)

This is sad. Beerus doesn't go far in the GT scale.


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## Extravlad (Mar 18, 2015)

> If we go by DBXV yeah. Since that treats Demon God Demigra >>> GT Saga characters, and he is able to control them even beyond the grave or whatever.


Considering DBGT is pretty much an alternate universe it's prety safe to assume that Super Saiyan God does exist in the GT universe but we just never hear of it.
And I don't buy that someone can become stronger than a Super Saiyan God while in Super Saiyan 4.

I mean let's be real, even by BoG it's implied that Base Goku would get his ass kicked by Frieza.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Mar 18, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> Considering DBGT is pretty much an alternate universe it's prety safe to assume that Super Saiyan God does exist in the GT universe but we just never hear of it.



this is a completely unreasonable assumption


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## Featherine (Mar 18, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> I mean let's be real, even by BoG it's implied that Base Goku would get his ass kicked by Frieza.



Well, not really in fact, it depends how you want to look at it. Allow me to quote myself on that:



> As for what Beerus says exactly it's:
> Beerus: 今の君には倒せそうもないけど・・・
> Ima no kimi ni wa taosesou mo nai kedo...
> "It doesn't seem like you could beat him *as you are*" With emphasize on the the "ima no kimi" which is "the you right now".
> ...



Beerus clearly says that "the Goku he's *currently* looking at" doesn't seem like he'd be able to beat Frieza, but we all know Goku doesn't walk around in full power.


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## AgentAAA (Mar 18, 2015)

at the very least, I'd go so far as to say SSJG gives a bigger overall boost than SS4 given just the power difference displayed with beerus vs. the power difference displayed with Baby.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Mar 18, 2015)

eh, SSJ3 Goku essentially wasn't doing all that well against Baby Vegeta's weakest form, what with his punch being smiled off

in SSJ4, Goku said Super Baby Vegeta 2's punches just tickled him and matched then beat Golden Oozaru Baby Vegeta 

the furry monkey man power-up was pretty drastic as well


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## AgentAAA (Mar 18, 2015)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> eh, SSJ3 Goku essentially wasn't doing all that well against Baby Vegeta's weakest form, what with his punch being smiled off
> 
> in SSJ4, Goku said Super Baby Vegeta 2's punches just tickled him and matched then beat Golden Oozaru Baby Vegeta
> 
> the furry monkey man power-up was pretty drastic as well



I don't disagree, but it doesn't quite compare to the beatdown Beerus gave to SSJ3 goku, knocking him out with just a finger flick.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Mar 18, 2015)

I'd say shooting past two entirely different forms of his opponent in terms of power and beating the third after a fight outdoes even that sort of power leap, but I guess this is somewhat subjective

also, Beers KO'd him with a karate chop to the neck, the fingerflick knocked Goku back a fair distance

still a severe gap though


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## AgentAAA (Mar 18, 2015)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> I'd say shooting past two entirely different forms of his opponent in terms of power and beating the third after a fight outdoes even that sort of power leap, but I guess this is somewhat subjective
> 
> also, Beers KO'd him with a karate chop to the neck, the fingerflick knocked Goku back a fair distance
> 
> still a severe gap though



doesn't help that SSJ1 and 2 weren't treated as that different in GT... or even Buu saga honestly though that was just due to everyone relevant having SS2 and not bothering with SS1.
but I suppose it's a bit subjective.


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## Gogeta (Mar 18, 2015)

Don't forget though that the Goku that fought Baby was a lot stronger (Overall) than the Goku that fought Beerus due to numerous more years of training

And also, this isn't simply SSJ4 Goku, but SSJ4 Gogeta, who was many many times stronger than SSJ4 Goku. I mean he was fucking around and was casually beating Omega to the ass while the former with all his might couldn't really do much.

Just sayin'


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## Imperator100 (Mar 18, 2015)

Let me draw a comparison of the two for a second:

Beerus: Sub Relativistic Solar System Level (+?) 
SSJ4 Gogeta: FTL to MFTL(+++) Solar System Level (+++)

SSJ4 Goku or Vegeta fodderizes characters on Beerus's level, let alone Gogeta. Beerus's only hax is his Matter Manipulation and a weaker Vegito was fine fighting as a piece of candy. Even if Beerus did have more DC Gogeta has Energy Absorption to even it out again.


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## Warlordgab (Mar 18, 2015)

Gogeta said:


> Don't forget though that the Goku that fought Baby was a lot stronger (Overall) than the Goku that fought Beerus due to numerous more years of training



I don't know if this matters, but I think the author stated that "Goku and the other Z Fighters were at the peak of their power in Battle of Gods, and by the time of Uub's appearance their age had caused their power to decrease"

Although Toeiverse feats seem better than the manga feats



Imperator100 said:


> Beerus: Sub Relativistic Solar System Level (+?)
> SSJ4 Gogeta: FTL to MFTL(+++) Solar System Level (+++)



I thought the FTL stat only applied to combat speed and reaction speed


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## shade0180 (Mar 18, 2015)

> I thought the FTL stat only applied to combat speed and reaction speed



Er that still means he is FTL, so what's the point you are trying to ask?


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## Atem (Mar 18, 2015)

Shouldn't Beerus be FTL/MFTL too?


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## Imperator100 (Mar 18, 2015)

Rytlock Brimstone said:


> Shouldn't Beerus be FTL/MFTL too?



...From what?


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## Atem (Mar 18, 2015)

The feat where Beerus and Whis cross the universe or whatever with his magic stick.


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## Imperator100 (Mar 18, 2015)

Rytlock Brimstone said:


> The feat where Beerus and Whis cross the universe or whatever with his magic stick.



A: That seemed to be a function of Whis's staff rather then his own natural speed.
B: Beerus needed Whis to carry him everywhere with that thing. Whatever speed Whis has does not in any way scale to Beerus his inferior.


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## Qinglong (Mar 18, 2015)

Whis always has his staff so that is his speed, it's like saying Silver surfer doesn't have his board

Beerus at least implied he could fly to Planet Vegeta under his own power, he was just too lazy to do so

Not that I think he should be flat out scaled to it personally


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## Atem (Mar 18, 2015)

Imperator100 said:


> A: That seemed to be a function of Whis's staff rather then his own natural speed.
> *B: Beerus needed Whis to carry him everywhere with that thing. Whatever speed Whis has does not in any way scale to Beerus his inferior.*



It does because the difference between them as stated by Akira Toriyama is that Goku is basically a 6, Beerus is 10, and Whis is 15.

There's only a slight discrepancy in their power. While Beerus shouldn't be as fast he should be close.


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## Imperator100 (Mar 18, 2015)

My point was that Whis uses his staff to achieve that speed and therefore Beerus can't scale to it in anyway.


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## LordPerucho (Mar 18, 2015)

Bills has to be FTL, someone needs to calc that beam toward the sun.


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## shade0180 (Mar 18, 2015)

Miniature sun + er some distance not even sure if it's as far as the moon to earth distance in that position.. from what I am seeing on that panel on page 19(?)...


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## MusubiKazesaru (Mar 18, 2015)

Is the manga actually canon or is it a promo for the movie?


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## Imperator100 (Mar 18, 2015)

LordPerucho said:


> Bills has to be FTL, someone needs to calc that beam toward the sun.



Why was Goku and Vegeta trying to fight Whis in Base Form?


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## King Kakarot (Mar 18, 2015)

I doubt the manga is canon just a short preview

Also Goku says that if that attack was to hit him head on he'll be dead so it's obviously more than Goku's durability which is solar system+

And this was a sleepy beerus as well


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## Crimson Dragoon (Mar 18, 2015)

Imperator100 said:


> Why was Goku and Vegeta trying to fight Whis in Base Form?



to conserve energy, I guess 

that and it's a training exercise, plus SSJG makes SSJ forms not as necessary as it was before 

well, I'm assuming Vegeta got it offscreen since he'd be pretty irrelevant otherwise


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## Byrd (Mar 18, 2015)

I heard Goku retain like 60-80% of his SSG power in base form so it literally rendered SSJ mode obsolete

despite it all... I remember when it was SSJ was amazing... oh how times have changed


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## Xeogran (Mar 18, 2015)

Byrd said:


> I heard Goku retain like 60-80% of his SSG power in base form so it literally rendered SSJ mode obsolete



I thought that SSJ after he absorbed God, still boosts him up, no? 
That's the reason he went SSJ against Beerus after absorbing the Godly Ki onto himself.


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## Warlordgab (Mar 18, 2015)

Imperator100 said:


> Why was Goku and Vegeta trying to fight Whis in Base Form?



According to Toriyama, Goku won't go SSJ because he doesn't need the form anymore. Possibly the godly ki he absorbed put him at a state similar to Mystic Gohan

As for Vegeta, I don't know


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## NightmareCinema (Mar 18, 2015)

King Kakarot said:


> *I doubt the manga is canon just a short preview
> *
> Also Goku says that if that attack was to hit him head on he'll be dead so it's obviously more than Goku's durability which is solar system+
> 
> And this was a sleepy beerus as well



It's canon. 

The manga covers the early parts of the movie so there you go.


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## Warlordgab (Mar 18, 2015)

King Kakarot said:


> Also Goku says that if that attack was to hit him head on he'll be dead so it's obviously more than Goku's durability which is solar system+
> 
> And this was a sleepy beerus as well



Maybe that means Goku is still bellow Solar System level, or he's a low end Solar System level and Bills is probably a solid Solar System level


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## King Kakarot (Mar 18, 2015)

Warlordgab said:


> Maybe that means Goku is still bellow Solar System level, or he's a low end Solar System level and Bills is probably a solid Solar System level



With Goku's KHH in BOG,Beerus was scared of his attack(although it didn't do jack shit)

[youtube]TlZ6mmjnvFw[/youtube].

So Goku should be more than Star lvl seeing as how Beerus is "afraid" of his blasts but doesn't give a darn about blowing up a star

Unless sleepy Beerus> 80% God Goku


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## Warlordgab (Mar 18, 2015)

King Kakarot said:


> With Goku's KHH in BOG,Beerus was scared of his attack(although it didn't do jack shit)
> 
> [sp][youtube]TlZ6mmjnvFw[/youtube].[/sp]
> 
> So Goku should be more than Star lvl seeing as how Beerus is "afraid" of his blasts but doesn't give a darn about blowing up a star



Using OBD profiling that makes Goku current DC at least Star level, likely higher

Although I wouldn't use the word "afraid", he was most likely surprised and as you explained the attack had no effect on him


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## sanninme rikudo (Mar 18, 2015)

Regular Gogeta is already in a category of his own. Im sorry but SS4 Gogeta mops Bills. His power and speed are just ridiculous. Plus he can apparently clone himself so imagine Beerus taking a Big bang Kamehameha by 4 Gogetas. It will literally rearrange his molecules.


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## AgentAAA (Mar 18, 2015)

sanninme rikudo said:


> Regular Gogeta is already in a category of his own. Im sorry but SS4 Gogeta mops Bills. His power and speed are just ridiculous. Plus he can apparently clone himself so imagine Beerus taking a Big bang Kamehameha by 4 Gogetas. It will literally rearrange his molecules.



regular Vegito can't even take beerus, so not sure what regular gogeta's doing here.


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## Hachibi (Mar 18, 2015)

If there's thread like this before Resurrection of F, imagine after.


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## Warlordgab (Mar 18, 2015)

Hachibi said:


> If there's thread like this before Resurrection of F, imagine after.



An endless nightmare!


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## Imperator100 (Mar 18, 2015)

AgentAAA said:


> regular Vegito can't even take beerus, so not sure what regular gogeta's doing here.



Well with GT scaling he should be >Base Goku who should be >Anime Buu who has feats that put Beerus to shame. DBGT Gogeta and theoretical Z Gogeta are not the same thing.


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## AgentAAA (Mar 18, 2015)

Imperator100 said:


> Well with GT scaling he should be >Base Goku who should be >Anime Buu who has feats that put Beerus to shame. DBGT Gogeta and theoretical Z Gogeta are not the same thing.



my point's more that "regular gogeta" isn't the most ridiculous in this convo.
Albeit I'm still not convinced of a lot of the shaky scaling anime buu gets for DC


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## sanninme rikudo (Mar 18, 2015)

AgentAAA said:


> regular Vegito can't even take beerus, so not sure what regular gogeta's doing here.


Gogeta's SS4 here not base.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Mar 18, 2015)

this thread is very confused


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Mar 18, 2015)

I think this thread has run its course. Please take this as a lesson. Manga vs anime threads are a terrible clusterfuck of pointlessness.


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