# EoS Kuwabara vs Grey Hulk



## eaebiakuya (Sep 24, 2012)

Who wins this fight ?


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## Expelsword (Sep 24, 2012)

Is Yukina there?


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## hammer (Sep 24, 2012)

grey hulk smashed yukina


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## Expelsword (Sep 24, 2012)

Kuwabara destroys the world.


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## Imagine (Sep 24, 2012)

> grey hulk smashed yukina



                                                                .


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## Nazirul Takashi (Sep 24, 2012)

hammer said:


> grey hulk smashed yukina



Well in that case...


*Spoiler*: __ 



Hiei Solos 




Inb4 ChaosTheory123.


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## Atem (Sep 24, 2012)

Expelsword said:


> Kuwabara destroys the world.



 Kuwabara is not a planet buster.

Also, didn't Grey Hulk destroy an asteroid twice the size of earth (lolwut?) or something? However, I also hear that might have been an outlier. 

Kuwabara has the superior movement speed and with his Jigen-Tou he might be able to shanghai the Grey Hulk's durability. Don't know if the Grey Hulk's regeneration is good enough to shrug off getting his head cut off.


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## Expelsword (Sep 24, 2012)

Falcon Man said:


> Kuwabara is not a planet buster.



I was exaggerating, but Kuwabara shanks dimensions and sends him to Hell.
Win BFR.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Sep 24, 2012)

I'm going to assume this version of hulk has both the speed feats and destructive feats to casually bash up YYHverse, because that's the safest assumption for me to work with when dealing with comics and their fuckton of canon.


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## Saint Saga (Sep 24, 2012)

Grey hulk is nowhere near hulk strongest form .

Not sure about his speed but i think both of them can one shot each other .


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 24, 2012)

can this one tank hax (due to regen or lol angry) like the green one ?


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## Heavenly King (Sep 24, 2012)

Fluttershy said:


> can this one tank hax (due to regen or lol angry) like the green one ?



that's right son he can


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## eaebiakuya (Sep 24, 2012)

What is best regen feat from Gray Hulk ?


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## Heavenly King (Sep 25, 2012)

eaebiakuya said:


> What is best regen feat from Gray Hulk ?



it wouldn't matter he would kill this fool


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## eaebiakuya (Sep 25, 2012)

Then, you mean he is faster than Kuwabara ?

What is his best speed feat ?


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## Heavenly King (Sep 25, 2012)

eaebiakuya said:


> Then, you mean he is faster than Kuwabara ?
> 
> What is his best speed feat ?



what I mean is that this is a bad fight for Kuwabara. You need to take a break and go read some comics and mangas


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 25, 2012)

Saint Saga said:


> Grey hulk is nowhere near hulk strongest form .
> 
> Not sure about his speed but i think both of them can one shot each other .



considering he smashed himself through something twice the size of the planet..Kuwabara cannot hurt him at all

this is just another one of Eebyakuya's bitch about comic mid tiers threads


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## Toriko (Sep 25, 2012)

/\ Not without Jigen To at least.

Unless he has resistance to stuff like that.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 25, 2012)

Brohan said:


> /\ Not without Jigen To at least.
> 
> Unless he has resistance to stuff like that.



so Hulk has a gash across his chest..he then laughs and T claps Kuwa to pudding

this is the same character who's Green incarnation in base has shrugged off having a piece of his body converted to anti matter and then having an M/AM reaction _right inside him_ and recovered in a panel or two

even if Fixits regen is crummier than that, that;s still regen on a level way beyond what Kuwa can bypass *before* being killed


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## eaebiakuya (Sep 25, 2012)

> this is the same character who's Green incarnation in base has shrugged off having a piece of his body converted to anti matter and then having an M/AM reaction right inside him and recovered in a panel or two



You cant powerscalle that way. The Green one is far stronger than the Gray.



> so Hulk has a gash across his chest..he then laughs and T claps Kuwa to pudding



Gray Hulk T-Clap is City Level ? He has destroyed a car with a T-Clap, but that is the only feat i found. What others feats he has ?

I was not sure if Kuwabara could damage the Hulk, but from what i've read here, he can.

Then what is stoping him from cuting off Hulk head ?


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## Endless Mike (Sep 25, 2012)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> so Hulk has a gash across his chest..he then laughs and T claps Kuwa to pudding
> 
> this is the same character who's Green incarnation in base has shrugged off having a piece of his body converted to anti matter and then having an M/AM reaction _right inside him_ and recovered in a panel or two



I've still never actually seen a scan of this...



eaebiakuya said:


> You cant powerscalle that way. The Green one is far stronger than the Gray.



Grey Hulk is still generally stronger than the Thing.



> Then what is stoping him from cuting off Hulk head ?



Getting punched in the face.


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## Lurko (Sep 25, 2012)

Grey hulk smash!


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## feebas_factor (Sep 25, 2012)

eaebiakuya said:


> Then what is stoping him from cuting off Hulk head ?





Endless Mike said:


> Getting punched in the face.



Well that's probably why:



eaebiakuya said:


> Then, you mean he is faster than Kuwabara ?
> 
> What is his best speed feat ?



Was asking about speed.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> considering he smashed himself through something twice the size of the planet..Kuwabara cannot hurt him at all



Yeah I mean smashing through that asteroid definitely showed his resistance to dimensional hax I guess.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> so Hulk has a gash across his chest..he then laughs and T claps Kuwa to pudding
> 
> this is the same character who's Green incarnation in base has shrugged off having a piece of his body converted to anti matter and then having an M/AM reaction _right inside him_ and recovered in a panel or two
> 
> even if Fixits regen is crummier than that, that;s still regen on a level way beyond what Kuwa can bypass *before* being killed



So... he _can _survive having his head cut off? Yay, nay?


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## Heavenly King (Sep 26, 2012)

what is up with people thinking that Kuwabara is going to cut Joe fixit's head off??


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## Expelsword (Sep 26, 2012)

Dimension-cutter sword.


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## feebas_factor (Sep 26, 2012)

Heavenly King said:


> what is up with people thinking that Kuwabara is going to cut Joe fixit's head off??



Dimension cutting sword.


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## Heavenly King (Sep 26, 2012)

BLAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Let me see that scan


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## Saint Saga (Sep 26, 2012)

.......the entire point of that arc was sensui wanting to get said ability to cut dimensions.

It's not some minor point you gloss over , it's something anyone who read or watched yyh should know .


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## Mickey Mouse (Sep 26, 2012)

You would have thought it would have been simple for Kuwabara to do that to Sensui...


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## Saint Saga (Sep 26, 2012)

Kuwabara probably wasn't able to tag sensui .


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## Heavenly King (Sep 26, 2012)

Grey Hulk smash


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 26, 2012)

Endless Mike said:


> I've still never actually seen a scan of this...
> .



KMC's got nothing?



feebas_factor said:


> Yeah I mean smashing through that asteroid definitely showed his resistance to dimensional hax I guess.



I think you have a problem with scale..some small scale localized dimensional rift cutter that has a destructive capacity that is barely large enough to do more than rip open Hulks chest..is not going to overly do enough damage to someone with that much soak

Hulk punches his face off




feebas_factor said:


> So... he _can _survive having his head cut off? Yay, nay?



irrelevant question is irrelevant




Expelsword said:


> Dimension-cutter sword.




a very small scale dimension cutter


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## Saint Saga (Sep 26, 2012)

It's big enough to cut a hole big enough for him+hiei+kurama to jump through , so it's decently big .

No one is doubting this hulk will be able to one shot kuwabara , question is can he do it before kuwabara attacks , and if not can he regenerate from something like having his head cut off or being cut in half ?


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## Heavenly King (Sep 26, 2012)

I love how you cats think that Kuwabara would even get close to even cut the hulk's head off with out getting a back hand from hell


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## Saint Saga (Sep 26, 2012)

His sword has a nice range to it , so he won't have to get point blank .

So would someone stop dodging the question and tell us how fast grey hulk is ?


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## Expelsword (Sep 26, 2012)

Quoth Kuwabara:
"Sword, get longer!!"

Range is not problem.


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## Tranquil Fury (Sep 26, 2012)

You know this thread could just have been solved by either
a. Posting a speed or reaction feat to support Grey Hulk goes first
b. Grey Hulk regenerating from that small dimension cutter

Either or both would end this thread, neither are irrelevant or atleast posting a feat to cover one aspect would make the other irrelevant(Hulk being too fast nulls the H4X advantage or Hulk being able to no survive the sword nulls any speed advantage). I know regular Hulk would solo YYH where does Grey Hulk compare to the regular one?Have'nt read much with him.

Just posting a scan is all that's needed to end it(it could have been ended in the first page or so alone) and please don't say that's asking too much when the point of a debate is to give evidence. All users are not familiar with Grey Hulk and this Hulk is weaker than the regular one on average, being stronger than Ben Grimm means he's atleast small mountain to island level+ and I don't think anyone is doubting he can't kill Kuwabara in one hit if he connects.



> Also, didn't Grey Hulk destroy an asteroid twice the size of earth (lolwut?) or something? However, I also hear that might have been an outlier



He had help in the sense he was propelled towards it, he did the rest himself. Most of that feat still goes to him but was that grey hulk or regular?Been a long time for me.


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## Expelsword (Sep 26, 2012)

Don't forget, Kuwabara managed to essentially be a dead man standing with Yukina support, though maybe they exaggerated that in the anime?


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## Tranquil Fury (Sep 26, 2012)

What are you talking about and how does that even make a difference here?


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## Expelsword (Sep 26, 2012)

He was getting pounded to dust by an opponent way out of his league in the Dark Tournament.
He stood back up, suddenly got way stronger, and won because he tried super hard for Yukina.

He _might_ not go down in one shot if he's fighting for Yukina, but I'm not familiar with Gray Hulk's actual strength.


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## Atem (Sep 26, 2012)

Tranquil Fury said:


> He had help in the sense he was propelled towards it, he did the rest himself. Most of that feat still goes to him but was that grey hulk or regular?Been a long time for me.



Yeah, it was the Mr. Fixit/Grey version. EM even calced that feat recently. Here: 

Not sure if outlier or not. 

There's still the issue of speed to consider. How fast is the Grey Hulk? I mean if Mr. Fixit can't get a clean hit in and Jigen-Tou can override his durability then Kuwabara has a good shot.  

One hit from the Grey Hulk would cream Kuwabara though. Pretty much the consensus from what I'm seeing.


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## Heavenly King (Sep 26, 2012)

oh let me end this crap


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## Heavenly King (Sep 26, 2012)

I am not done yet


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## Tranquil Fury (Sep 26, 2012)

Just curious but how far did Grey Hulk jump there?


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## Saint Saga (Sep 26, 2012)

Falcon Man said:


> Yeah, it was the Mr. Fixit/Grey version. EM even calced that feat recently. Here:
> 
> Not sure if outlier or not.
> 
> ...



Pretty much , there is no doubt grey hulk will one shot kuwabara if he even manages to breeze on him .

Main issue here is if he is fast enough to hit him before kuwabara cuts his head , or if his regen is as good as green hulk and thus would allow him to regen from that .


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## Heavenly King (Sep 26, 2012)

Saint Saga said:


> Pretty much , there is no doubt grey hulk will one shot kuwabara if he even manages to breeze on him .
> 
> Main issue here is if he is fast enough to hit him before kuwabara cuts his head , or if his regen is as good as green hulk and thus would allow him to regen from that .



post scans of Kuwabara speed.

The only people I see cut the gray hulk was rock,logan and some demon




Tranquil Fury said:


> Just curious but how far did Grey Hulk jump there?



it matters what scan you're talking about


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## Tranquil Fury (Sep 26, 2012)

The one with Ironman where he takes him to talk. Kuwabara is above Chapter Black Hiei who had that feat of saving Yusuke from an explosion and making it to Sniper plus bullet timing was done pre chapter black. 

Grey Hulk is within hypersonic range if he can own the avengers like that especially Ironman whether it's enough I'll leave to others. There's probably other scans as well for his speed I'm sure.


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## Heavenly King (Sep 26, 2012)

Tranquil Fury said:


> The one with Ironman where he takes him to talk. Kuwabara is above Chapter Black Hiei who had that feat of saving Yusuke from an explosion and making it to Sniper plus bullet timing was done pre chapter black.
> 
> Grey Hulk is within hypersonic range if he can own the avengers like that especially Ironman whether it's enough I'll leave to others. There's probably other scans as well for his speed I'm sure.



I think it might have been a mile or 2 maybe. take a look at how fast he got to them when their jet went down ( that's pretty fast )


I just found some real good speed feats for the gray hulk ( theirs no point in posting them in here )


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## Bullbob (Sep 26, 2012)

Just wanna tjrow my 2 cents into this, but when the grey Hulk gets mad enough it just unleashes the savage hulk which takes over as a personnality. Grey Hulk isn t really a form of Hulk but more a personnality. He s weaker because he has average intelligence and he can manage his anger better. But being beaten on repeatedly and being nearly killed would unleash savage Hulk guaranteed as a survival mechanism. That is hypothetic because grey Hulk is probably still mountain/city level.


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## eaebiakuya (Sep 26, 2012)

Saint Saga said:


> Pretty much , there is no doubt grey hulk will one shot kuwabara if he even manages to breeze on him .
> 
> Main issue here is if he is fast enough to hit him before kuwabara cuts his head , or if his regen is as good as green hulk and thus would allow him to regen from that .



Green Hulk can survive a decaptation ?



> post scans of Kuwabara speed.



Someone who is aware of Yuyu calcs should say better, but he is massively hipersonic.


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## Heavenly King (Sep 26, 2012)

Bullbob said:


> Just wanna tjrow my 2 cents into this, but when the grey Hulk gets mad enough it just unleashes the savage hulk which takes over as a personnality. Grey Hulk isn t really a form of Hulk but more a personnality. He s weaker because he has average intelligence and he can manage his anger better. But being beaten on repeatedly and being nearly killed would unleash savage Hulk guaranteed as a survival mechanism. That is hypothetic because grey Hulk is probably still mountain/city level.



 mountain to city level?



eaebiakuya said:


> Green Hulk can survive a decaptation ?
> 
> 
> 
> Someone who is aware of Yuyu calcs should say better, but he is massively hipersonic.




yes the green hulk can ( he got eating up by some bugs in The End and reg back)


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## Expelsword (Sep 26, 2012)

Heavenly King said:


> post scans of Kuwabara speed.
> 
> The only people I see cut the gray hulk was logan...



You mean Wolverine?
Dimension cutter should be way stronger than his cuts...


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## Heavenly King (Sep 26, 2012)

Expelsword said:


> You mean Wolverine?
> Dimension cutter should be way stronger than his cuts...



two different types of weapons here talking about here. You would problem think if Wolverine and Kuwabara was to swing their weapons and hit each other the spirit sword would cut right through Logan's claws right?? 

show me a scan of Kuwabara cutting some one with high durability


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## Saitomaru (Sep 26, 2012)

Heavenly King said:


> -snip-
> 
> 
> I am not done yet



Is there a site I could go to to read comics? Sort of like a manga site but for DC, Marvel, etc. Just thought I should ask since I don't like being in the dark regarding battles involving a comic character (and those scans were fucking cool *excuse the language*).

Edit: Or do I have to go find a comic book store? Because I think there is one down town but its right in the middle of crackhead country...


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## Expelsword (Sep 26, 2012)

He cut through that... giant thing that Kurama and Hiei knew it would be fruitless to attack...

But I forget why, they might have known it was extra dimensional...


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## Tranquil Fury (Sep 26, 2012)

Admantium has resisted slashes from Silver Samurai who cuts time/space but I doubt that property transfers to someone who can resist a slash from it.



> Someone who is aware of Yuyu calcs should say better, but he is massively hipersonic



Double digits is not massively hypersonic unless suddenly there's a calc that makes the feat better than it actually is. Kuwabara is comparable thanks to being A class. So yeah mach 10-15+ seems right for Kuwabara, mach triple digits is far more speed than needed for the Hiei/Sniper feat unless there is some other feat.


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## Atem (Sep 26, 2012)

Expelsword said:


> He cut through that... *giant thing that Kurama and Hiei knew it would be fruitless to attack*...
> 
> But I forget why, they might have known it was extra dimensional...



You're going to need to be more specific than that. That just sounds really vague right now.

Also, how do you quantify a sword that cuts through dimensions and the fabric of space? I mean there really isn't anything to scale it to in real life. It overwhelms physical durability but to what extent exactly, and what are its limitations? 

Just felt like playing on both sides of the argument.


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## Tranquil Fury (Sep 26, 2012)

Thinking about that Hulk's ability to regenerate organs pretty much nulls that power or atleast at that level, sword goes through physical body and damages organ or sends it to another dimension or whatever you interprate the damage as but is useless since Hulk has regenerated from worse. I know he's regenerated from skeleton(anti-matter, time/space and other ridiculous stuff) and that regen should apply to Grey Hulk who should only be weaker in stats and even then he can keep getting stronger with anger. 

If feats/powerscaling are needed for Grey Hulk's strength or regeneration I could post scans of that. Speedwise I don't know if he has anything comparing to double digit machs(though stomping Ironman puts him atleast low hypersonic) someone could probably post a scan of his speed or reactions.


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## eaebiakuya (Sep 26, 2012)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Double digits is not massively hypersonic unless suddenly there's a calc that makes the feat better than it actually is. Kuwabara is comparable thanks to being A class. So yeah mach 10-15+ seems right for Kuwabara, mach triple digits is far more speed than needed for the Hiei/Sniper feat unless there is some other feat.



I got this from OBD wiki

a thing


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## Tranquil Fury (Sep 26, 2012)

> Massively hypersonic+ (kept up with a bloodlusted Hiei and Kurama as they chased after Sensui)



We are going circular now, I'm asking what feat makes Hiei from mach 10-15+ to triple digits all of a sudden. Whatever distance taken between him and Sniper is quite generous to begin with unless something more concrete is given in the manga. If it is then fine triple digits B class demons but I do want more info?I'm sure wanting more info on speed applies to both sides.

Or do we know the distance he and the others covered when following Sensui?give a link to the calc itself?


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## Expelsword (Sep 26, 2012)

Falcon Man said:


> You're going to need to be more specific than that. That just sounds really vague right now.



I'm not good at finding clips or scans, but I can be a bit more specific thanks to the Yu Yu Hakusho Wiki

While Yusuke was fighting Sensui, Gatekeeper called out this to hold Kuwabara, Hiei, and Kurama in another dimension.

Uraotoko:This vaguely-humanoid creature is Itsuki's pet and bears a startling resemblance to the Umibōzu of legend and is a veritable pocket-dimension unto itself. Given all the debris seen within it, it can be inferred that this creature has existed for a long time. It was only defeated when Kuwabara was finally able to call out his Jigen Tō and cut through both Itsuki and the Uraotoko in his attempt to escape it.

Doesn't really tell you much, but Hiei and Kurama didn't even try to overpower it physically.

Anyway, my point is that Kuwabara should ignore physical durability and maybe can even BFR him.


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## Linkofone (Sep 26, 2012)

A question, would a direct hit from Hulk kill Kuwabara anyways?


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## Heavenly King (Sep 26, 2012)

why is this 4 pages??


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## Saitomaru (Sep 26, 2012)

Linkofone said:


> A question, would a direct hit from Hulk kill Kuwabara anyways?



This has been answered over the course of numerous posts and the last 3 pages. Short answer- Yes. Longer answer- Apparently he turns Kuwabara into mush or something like that.


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## Linkofone (Sep 26, 2012)

Saitomaru said:


> This has been answered over the course of numerous posts and the last 3 pages. Short answer- Yes. Longer answer- Apparently he turns Kuwabara into mush or something like that.



So most agree that Hulk *can* 1-hit ko Kuwabara.

Most people agree that Hulk has very powerful healing factor.

That means Hulk wins right?


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## Atem (Sep 26, 2012)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Thinking about that Hulk's ability to regenerate organs pretty much nulls that power or atleast at that level, sword goes through physical body and damages organ or sends it to another dimension or whatever you interprate the damage as but is useless since Hulk has regenerated from worse. I know he's regenerated from skeleton(anti-matter, time/space and other ridiculous stuff) and that regen should apply to Grey Hulk who should only be weaker in stats and even then he can keep getting stronger with anger.
> 
> If feats/powerscaling are needed for Grey Hulk's strength or regeneration I could post scans of that. Speedwise I don't know if he has anything comparing to double digit machs(though stomping Ironman puts him atleast low hypersonic) someone could probably post a scan of his speed or reactions.



If the other regeneration feats from the different versions of the Hulk are applicable to Mr. Fixit then he should be able to shrug it off.

I mean Maestro could heal being reduced to ash if I remember correctly.  

As for the triple digits speed thing regarding Yu Yu Hakusho, it comes from this calculation I believe:

You could power scale off that I guess, for EOS Kuwabara.


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## Tranquil Fury (Sep 26, 2012)

"Yusuke's EOS feat". He is way above Kuwabara, he makes the former look like a baby.

Honestly it seems all the YYH side want are some scans of his regen(this most likely would not be needed if he's around regular Hulk level in this area) or speed/reaction, they agree Grey Hulk can down Kuwabara. Posting those will end it and that's really all they want I guess.

Is posting the necessary scan or scans that hard?It could avoid 50+ posts. I'm sure EM will post them eventually if someone does'nt before. I just wonder why a thread with an obvious outcome has gone on so long if scans could end them and silence everyone.


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## Atem (Sep 26, 2012)

True.

And since I'm bored, I looked for some Hulk speed feats. 

Here:

So, minimum Mach 42~68 punch/attack speed. Cool.

EDIT:

If Mr. Fixit's around this speed I'm guessing he probably does a thunderclap and ruptures Kuwabara's eardrums.


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## Linkofone (Sep 26, 2012)

Just some information I found about Grey Hulk:

Hopefully nobody else posted this already:


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## Heavenly King (Sep 26, 2012)

Falcon Man said:


> True.
> 
> And since I'm bored, I looked for some Hulk speed feats.
> 
> ...



The grey hulk should be lower then his green self in punching speed.  here's some speed feats for him I got some more if needed


*Spoiler*: __


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## eaebiakuya (Sep 26, 2012)

Thank you for the scans, but i guess you will need post more scans.

Those scans are nice but a guy with Super Sonic speed could do without any effort.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 27, 2012)

Expelsword said:


> Don't forget, Kuwabara managed to essentially be a dead man standing with Yukina support, though maybe they exaggerated that in the anime?



...are you serious?

this is a guy who could one shot Raizen at his prime Kuwabara isn't getting up at all after a blow 



Expelsword said:


> He was getting pounded to dust by an opponent way out of his league in the Dark Tournament.
> He stood back up, suddenly got way stronger, and won because he tried super hard for Yukina.



and you believe he'll magically do this after Hulk hits him with enough force to wreck 



Expelsword said:


> He _might_ not go down in one shot if he's fighting for Yukina, but I'm not familiar with Gray Hulk's actual strength.



uhh no he'll be turned into soup


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## Expelsword (Sep 27, 2012)

He did it magically the first time...

I _did_ say I wasn't sure how strong his opponent was, and my opinion is now revised. You didn't have to chew me out so hard.


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## Heavenly King (Sep 27, 2012)

Expelsword said:


> He did it magically the first time...
> 
> I _did_ say I wasn't sure how strong his opponent was, and my opinion is now revised. You didn't have to chew me out so hard.



welcome to the odb


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## eaebiakuya (Sep 27, 2012)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> this is a guy who could one shot Raizen at his prime Kuwabara isn't getting up at all after a blow



Since:



> being stronger than Ben Grimm means he's atleast small mountain to island level+



Im not sure if he can. EOS Yusuke is Island + in durability.

I think i read in some thread in OBD the Prime Raizon could solo the yuyuverse alone. He should have a durability far greater than Island level. But is impossible to say how greater...

The asteroid feat is a outlier. Base Grey Hulk dont have planet + strengh.


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## Endless Mike (Sep 27, 2012)

He does if you powerscale from guys like Wonder Man who he has smacked around


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## feebas_factor (Sep 27, 2012)

Falcon Man said:


> True.
> 
> And since I'm bored, I looked for some Hulk speed feats.
> 
> ...



Good find, but I'm _assuming_ we're not just going to scale everything from regular Hulk over to Grey Hulk. 

That would essentially just make this match Kuwabara vs. the Hulk, which is then a completely pointless match to debate.


Tranquil Fury said:


> "Yusuke's EOS feat". He is way above Kuwabara, he makes the former look like a baby.
> 
> Honestly it seems all the YYH side want are some scans of his regen(this most likely would not be needed if he's around regular Hulk level in this area) or speed/reaction, they agree Grey Hulk can down Kuwabara. Posting those will end it and that's really all they want I guess.
> 
> Is posting the necessary scan or scans that hard?It could avoid 50+ posts. I'm sure EM will post them eventually if someone does'nt before. I just wonder why a thread with an obvious outcome has gone on so long if scans could end them and silence everyone.



Pretty fair assessment. Basically any evidence more than "well Hulk has this so Grey Hulk _probably_ has it too" would be nice.



Just uh... all waitin' on those scans then, I guess.


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## Tranquil Fury (Sep 27, 2012)

> EOS Yusuke is Island + in durability



He's island level durability if you abuse powerscaling in which case so is Grey Hulk going off him being stronger than regular Ben Grimm. Nevermind that terms like mountain and island level can be exchanged around. Grey Hulk through help of being propelled destroyed that 2x Earth asteroid, you can't attribute all of it to him but you can't take most of it away either. Mountain-Island level is'nt impressive for most Marvel or DC bricks.



> Those scans are nice but a guy with Super Sonic speed could do without any effort



Mach 40+ is beyond B class Hiei's mach 15-20 calc and Kuwabara may be way stronger than Hiei but you can't abuse powerscaling to make him that fast?Even going off him stomping Ironman supersonic is too slow. But that's regular hulk so I guess people may want Grey Hulk only and he's not allowed to get angry enough to become green hulk but I'm just pointing out that a mach 40 feat is above anything Kuwabara can do.

This thread seems done now.

EDIT That's fair enough if you just want grey Hulk only feats I think the other side deserves that much.


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## HeavyMetalThunder (Sep 27, 2012)

Hulk wins but just pointing out things here...



> He's island level durability if you abuse powerscaling



No, he's actually likely sitting on single digit teratons level of durability and country level starts at 6 teratons. he was really high island level back in chapter black, let alone EoS.
Kuwuabara, on the other hand, isn't.



> Mach 40+ is beyond B class Hiei's mach 15-20 calc and Kuwabara may be way stronger than Hiei but you can't abuse powerscaling to make him that fast



IIRC B class toguro or yusuke was mach 30


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## Atem (Sep 27, 2012)

feebas_factor said:


> Good find, but I'm _assuming_ we're not just going to scale everything from regular Hulk over to Grey Hulk. That would essentially just make this match Kuwabara vs. the Hulk, which is then a completely pointless match to debate.



Also true, that's why I said _if_ Mr. Fixit is around or near that speed. He is weaker so you could say he is also not as fast as normal Hulk.


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## Endless Mike (Sep 27, 2012)

Or you could say that since he is smaller and lighter, he's faster


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## Tranquil Fury (Sep 27, 2012)

> No, he's actually likely sitting on single digit teratons level of durability and country level starts at 6 teratons. he was really high island level back in chapter black, let alone EoS.Kuwuabara, on the other hand, isn't



did you even read my post?



> He's island level durability if you abuse powerscaling



This refers to Yusuke.

Then


> in which case so is Grey Hulk going off him being stronger than regular Ben Grimm. Nevermind that terms like mountain and island level can be exchanged around



He was responding to my post of Grey Hulk being stronger than regular Ben Grimm who was small mountain to island+ so I pointed out if we abuse powerscaling off Ben Grimm being small mountain+  alone then Grey Hulk also becomes island level. I even pointed out how island and mountain can be exchanged in fiction depending on their size, offcourse we go by the OBD's defination but saying Yusuke is island level because he's way above his mountain busting self is not an argument.

Then I mention his feat bigger feat:


> *Grey Hulk through help of being propelled destroyed that 2x Earth asteroid*, you can't attribute all of it to him but *you can't take most of it away either*. Mountain-Island level is'nt impressive for most Marvel or DC bricks


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## Atem (Sep 27, 2012)

Endless Mike said:


> Or you could say that since he is smaller and lighter, he's faster



Yeah, that too. Either way, that feat sets a sort of precedent for him I think.

EDIT: 

Wait, you weren't serious were you?


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## Tranquil Fury (Sep 27, 2012)

Endless Mike said:


> Or you could say that since he is smaller and lighter, he's faster



Can't you just post a feat to end this?How fast is Wonderman since Grey Hulk has owned him?If he's fast enough then that feat would do it.


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## Endless Mike (Sep 27, 2012)

But seriously base Hulk has better speed feats than the Miek punch.


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## HeavyMetalThunder (Sep 27, 2012)

> This refers to Yusuke.



then I quite didn't get it. I thought you were saying yusuke is island level only via powerscaling abusing.

If I was wrong, then I'll just get outta here


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## Endless Mike (Sep 27, 2012)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Can't you just post a feat to end this?How fast is Wonderman since Grey Hulk has owned him?If he's fast enough then that feat would do it.



After a quick look I found these feats for Wonder Man:


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## Atem (Sep 27, 2012)

Finally. So, since Mr. Fixit owned Wonder Man he should have the speed necessary to thunderclap Kuwabara into oblivion before he can get a good shot in with the Jigen-Tou.

Right?


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## Tranquil Fury (Sep 27, 2012)

Seems this fight is over then Wonderman is way faster than YYH and Grey Hulk stomped him along with Ironman.



HeavyMetalThunder said:


> then I quite didn't get it. I thought you were saying yusuke is island level only via powerscaling abusing.
> 
> If I was wrong, then I'll just get outta here



What makes Yusuke Island level?His best feat is destroying a mountain with his spirit gun as warm up during his weakest S class incarnation and the collateral caused by his fight with Sensui also at his weakest S class incarnation. Or do those match upto the OBD's bare minimum of what counts as an island?Because otherwise it just seems like island level is being thrown around in which case depending on their size even a mountain could be island level.

I hope one of us is not misunderstanding.


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## Heavenly King (Sep 27, 2012)

power scaling out of control yet again


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## HeavyMetalThunder (Sep 27, 2012)

> What makes Yusuke Island level?His best feat is destroying a mountain with his spirit gun as warm up during his weakest S class incarnation and the collateral caused by his fight with Sensui also at his weakest S class incarnation. Or do those match upto the OBD's bare minimum of what counts as an island?Because otherwise it just seems like island level is being thrown around in which case depending on their size even a mountain could be island level.



so you are not aware of ChaosTheory's calcs for chapter black, are you?




island level starts at a few gigatons if I recall correctly. they are triple digit gigatons in chapter black. 1 teraton is 1000 gigatons. 6 teraton is the minimum for country busting.
just to put things in perspective


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## Heavenly King (Sep 27, 2012)

HeavyMetalThunder said:


> so you are not aware of ChaosTheory's calcs for chapter black, are you?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




lmao!! Like I said power scaling going out of control


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## HeavyMetalThunder (Sep 27, 2012)

> lmao!! Like I said power scaling going out of control



explain what the fuck you mean, please.
I'm not saying they're country level. I'm simply saying what the island level range is, and pointing out they're rather high up in that range


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## Saitomaru (Sep 27, 2012)

What happened to the whole "Gray hulk punches Kuwabara, kuwabara turns to mush"? Was that found to be incorrect?


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## Heavenly King (Sep 27, 2012)

HeavyMetalThunder said:


> explain what the fuck you mean, please.
> I'm not saying they're country level. I'm simply saying what the island level range is, and pointing out they're rather high up in that range



iight that sounds a bit a better




Saitomaru said:


> What happened to the whole "Gray hulk punches Kuwabara, kuwabara turns to mush"? Was that found to be incorrect?




Gray hulk thunder claps and kuwabara dies


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## Tranquil Fury (Sep 27, 2012)

HeavyMetalThunder said:


> so you are not aware of ChaosTheory's calcs for chapter black, are you?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That seems fair.


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## Expelsword (Sep 27, 2012)

Well, I tried.
Looks like Kuwabara really is doomed.

I don't he could one shot Raizen though...


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## eaebiakuya (Sep 27, 2012)

> *Dimensional Fissure*
> *Dimensional Fissure*



How fast he is in those pictures ?


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## Atem (Sep 27, 2012)

Wonder Man went from the surface of the planet and into space on the same page. So, I'm guessing in excess of escape velocity which is around Mach 30 (33.78, I think).


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## Endless Mike (Sep 27, 2012)

Would be way faster than that, actually, since you can see him being at least a thousand or so km from the Earth...


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## eaebiakuya (Sep 27, 2012)

But it dont have any timeframe. It could be 1 minute, 5 minutes, etc. 

The people in the citys was able to heard him screaming.

About escape velocity, i never understand a thing.

Why this is said in wiki :



> Escape velocity is sometimes misunderstood to be the speed a powered vehicle, such as a rocket, must reach to leave orbit and travel through outer space. The quoted escape velocity is commonly the escape velocity at a planet's surface, but it actually decreases with altitude. It is the speed above which an object will depart on a ballistic trajectory, i.e. in free-fall, and never fall back to the surface nor assume a closed orbit. Such an object is said to "escape" the gravity of the planet.
> A vehicle with a propulsion system can continue to gain energy and travel away from the planet, in any direction, at a speed lower than escape velocity so long as it is under propulsion. If the vehicle's speed is below its current escape velocity and the propulsion is removed, the vehicle will assume a closed orbit or fall back to the surface. If its speed is at or above the escape velocity and the propulsion is removed, it has enough kinetic energy to "escape" and will neither orbit nor fall back to the surface.



This mean something with less than mach 30 speed could go out of earth, if he keeps acceleratings (like any flying characther) ?


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## Endless Mike (Sep 27, 2012)

The fact he's still in the process of yelling as he reaches the last panel?


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## Heavenly King (Sep 27, 2012)

ahahahaahahahahahahaa!! some one please closes this thread


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## Atem (Sep 27, 2012)

Endless Mike said:


> Would be way faster than that, actually, since you can see him being at least a thousand or so km from the Earth...



Yeah, I was just giving it the bare minimum and low-balling it. 



eaebiakuya said:


> But it dont have any timeframe. It could be 1 minute, 5 minutes, etc.
> 
> The people in the citys was able to heard him screaming.
> 
> ...



The scan didn't show Wonder Man struggling to break out of the Earth's gravitational field or accelerating slowly to break past it. He did it in one burst as he screamed all the way into space. So, minimum Mach 33~34 and in excess of it. Probably above that though, as Mike stated. 

If you want info on where I got the Mach 33~34 escape velocity. Here's a link:

As quoted from the source, 

"We must be going at a very high speed, but how high? The escape velocity, as the minimum velocity that will allow a small body to escape from another body, can be calculated using the formula v = sqrt(2Gm/r), where G is the gravitational constant, r is the distance from the center of the body with a mass of m. This formula is derived using the idea of conservation of energy, where the sum of the kinetic energy and the gravitational energy of an object equal the energy at the maximum altitude.

(+K) + (-U) [Earth] = K + U = 0 [at Infinity]

Therefore

K = -U
?mv2 = GMm/r
v = sqrt(2GM/R)

For the earth, this velocity is 11.2 kilometers per second or* 25,950 miles per hour.*"

Divided that by 768 mph, which is the speed of sound, and you get Mach 33.78


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 27, 2012)

I'd like to point out that escape velocity applies when you escape the gravitational pull by 1 vertical jump

in that case initial speed needs to be Mach 33+

with sustained flight it doesn't


I'm more or less certain 



but it does indeed look like WM covered a thousand or more km in a reasonably small timespan, so ...


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## feebas_factor (Sep 27, 2012)

Falcon Man said:


> Wonder Man went from the surface of the planet and into space on the same page. So, I'm guessing in excess of escape velocity which is around Mach 30 (33.78, I think).



As Fluttershy pointed out: that's not really how escape velocity works. Sustained flight can be any speed and still escape the Earth's atmosphere.

So technically that feat isn't really quantifiable. _But_ if everyone wants to just arbitrarily assume you can ballpark it at massively hypersonic, and then assume you can scale that speed _directly_ to Grey Hulk...

Eh, fine.


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## Casshern (Sep 27, 2012)

Kuwabara gets his head punched off.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 27, 2012)

> So technically that feat isn't really quantifiable. But if everyone wants to just arbitrarily assume you can ballpark it at massively hypersonic, and then assume you can scale that speed directly to Grey Hulk...
> 
> Eh, fine.


THIS IS MARVEL


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 27, 2012)

> So technically that feat isn't really quantifiable. But if everyone wants to just arbitrarily assume you can ballpark it at massively hypersonic, and then assume you can scale that speed directly to Grey Hulk...


green one in his stronger versions tags LS and FTL from what I know, so Grey one @ MHS isn't that out of place I'd guess


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## Atem (Sep 27, 2012)

Fluttershy said:


> I'd like to point out that escape velocity applies when you escape the gravitational pull by 1 vertical jump
> 
> in that case initial speed needs to be Mach 33+
> 
> ...



I see. Well, I'm no expert so I'll take your word for it. 



feebas_factor said:


> As Fluttershy pointed out: that's not really how escape velocity works. Sustained flight can be any speed and still escape the Earth's atmosphere.
> 
> So technically that feat isn't really quantifiable. _But_ if everyone wants to just arbitrarily assume you can ballpark it at massively hypersonic, and then assume you can scale that speed _directly_ to Grey Hulk...
> 
> Eh, fine.



Meh, whatever. I'm no rocket scientist either. And using Wonder Man's speed to scale isn't out of the question, after all Mr. Fixit was able to get the upper hand against him in the scans Heavenly King provided. So, he should be of comparable speed. 

What's Kuwabara's exact speed again?


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## eaebiakuya (Sep 28, 2012)

> So technically that feat isn't really quantifiable. But if everyone wants to just arbitrarily assume you can ballpark it at massively hypersonic, and then assume you can scale that speed directly to Grey Hulk...
> 
> Eh, fine.



Then still no proof Hulk is faster than Kuwabara ???

I still dont know how fast Kuwabara can be, some Yuyu expert can point out ?


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## Saitomaru (Sep 28, 2012)

Six pages


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## Heavenly King (Sep 28, 2012)

eaebiakuya said:


> Then still no proof Hulk is faster than Kuwabara ???
> 
> I still dont know how fast Kuwabara can be, some Yuyu expert can point out ?




dude just stop already


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## eaebiakuya (Sep 28, 2012)

> dude just stop already



Why ? We still dont know who wins.

We dont know who is faster. Until now we saw both of then could one shot eachother.

Speed is the only issue.

Chaos Theory words about Kuwabara speed:



> Between mach 25 and mach 50.
> 
> He's reasonably in the mid mach 30 range given his A class status


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## Heavenly King (Sep 28, 2012)

eaebiakuya said:


> Why ? We still dont know who wins.
> 
> We dont know who is faster. Until now we saw both of then could one shot eachother.
> 
> ...





*Spoiler*: __ 



6'6 900lbs jumping all over the place 

oh that thunder clap


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## eaebiakuya (Sep 28, 2012)

I dont understanded this scan, can you explain ?

Who is this enemy ? How fast he is ? How durable he is  The first TP seens to be a cheap shot.

How this scan proves the Gray hulk is above Mach 30 + ?


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 29, 2012)

eaebiakuya said:


> Why ? We still dont know who wins.
> :



yeah we do, we knew this the moment we all started listing Hulk feats

that you and Freebas and the others have this eternal ax to grind and you are utterly incapable of using your brain does not change the outcome


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## Tranquil Fury (Sep 29, 2012)

Why is this thread going on even after scans have been posted?I could understand before with no scans but now there is nothing left.


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## Heavenly King (Sep 29, 2012)

Again I ask close this


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## hammer (Sep 29, 2012)

grey hulk vs SM kabuto


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 29, 2012)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Why is this thread going on even after scans have been posted?I could understand before with no scans but now there is nothing left.



because Eebyakuya or however the fuck you spell his name is a biased troll and Freebas thinks he's cool and contrary by defending his positions


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## feebas_factor (Sep 30, 2012)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> because Eebyakuya or however the fuck you spell his name is a biased troll and Freebas thinks he's cool and contrary by defending his positions





_Oh IWD._ Cool and contrary are the last things I think I am.

And I thought Tranquil Fury made some quite reasonable assessments, I just think all feats also require a solid bit of scrutiny in their application. Not quite _every_ opinion different to yours is automatically trolling.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 30, 2012)

feebas_factor said:


> _Oh IWD._ Cool and contrary are the last things I think I am.
> 
> And I thought Tranquil Fury made some quite reasonable assessments, *I just think all feats also require a solid bit of scrutiny in their application*.* Not quite every opinion different to yours is automatically trolling*.



and the bolded would mean something if I didn't only see you applying this "solid bit of scrutiny" only to the comic characters in said matches..since that's not the case it makes you completely full of shit..

the last bit is luzly plenty of people disagree with me I have issues with the people who are morons, cowards or liars or actual trolls


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## Tranquil Fury (Sep 30, 2012)

The Grey Hulk thing is done even if you want to ignore speed it's clear he fights things more powerful than YYH so having any speed advantage would be null since they can't hurt him. I agreed with people for a while then we got a scan of Grey Hulk owning a heavyweight in Wonderman who is above YYH characters(supposed to be comparable to Sentry in physical strength and class 100). This is'nt a feat of green Hulk, it's Grey Hulk which is what people asked for and got.

Grey Hulk has survived a beating from Ms Marvel. Grey Hulk at his weakest is slightly below Thing though at his stronger levels much higher. An enhanced Ben Grimm was superior but that was back in the day, Grey Hulk is just a tier below base Hulk. Grey Hulk at his angriest is above Kuwabara. The 2x Earth Asteroid feat has been posted, he needed help to be propelled but you can't take away the rest. He survived smashing into the thing and destroyed it.


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## Saint Saga (Sep 30, 2012)

Eh , not really.

No one is saying kuwabara would hurt him with physical strength , we were just arguing if grey hulk has shown resistance to dimension cutting attacks , and if not then can he regen from say being cut in half or having his head cut of , and if not if he has the speed to kill kuwabara before that happens.

No idea why the fuck you guys are getting your panties in a bunch like i was insulting your moms or something , asking for feats is perfectly reasonable in a debate especially when my knowledge on the other side is limited , unless asking for feats or trying to debate for a series i like is forbidden now  .


And the scans posted proved only one thing....which is hulk can one shot kuwabara ( something that was never in doubt , atleast not for me) , and a good speed feat but not quite enough for him to land a hit before kuwabara does . 

So , has this version of hulk showed enough regen to show that he can regen from being cut in half or having his head cut off ? and if not has he shown resistance to dimension cutting attacks ?


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## Tranquil Fury (Sep 30, 2012)

Except Hulk can regenerate whether he bypasses durability or has the added effect of sending organs to another dimension. You want to assume Kuwabara goes for the head first?Then Grey Hulk goes for a thunderclap first. Is it possible Kuwabara can take Grey Hulk's head off?possibly but the chances are slim, Grey Hulk is weaker than Green Hulk in stats not regen and most versions of Hulk have regened from worse be it anti matter, ash, skeletons, time/space etc.

No one is getting any panties in a bunch considering I've been unbiased and giving both sides a chance even saying the other side deserves to get scans from Grey Hulk's feat but now those have been posted. Even now I'm still be calm because this does'nt warrant anything since these fictional characters in combat. I honestly like Kuwabara more than any Hulk for the record.

Speed is not important anymore since nothing Kuwabara can do is going help from the scans posted. The only remaining argument is whose faster if it is at all, it won't make a difference and Kuwabara pushing Grey Hulk into a portal or trying to get near him to create a portal/slash would be stupid and perfectly in character no less giving Grey Hulk and easy win. 

Kuwabara could probably beat one of the weaker incarnations of Grey Hulk I suppose(the one that was below an amped Ben Grimm who needed tactics) but at his strongest he can reach class 100 levels from the scans I'm seeing.


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## Atem (Sep 30, 2012)

Saint Saga said:


> Eh , not really.
> 
> No one is saying kuwabara would hurt him with physical strength , we were just arguing if grey hulk has shown resistance to dimension cutting attacks , and if not then can he regen from say being cut in half or having his head cut of , and if not if he has the speed to kill kuwabara before that happens.
> 
> ...



Isn't it obvious Saga? Debating fictional characters is a matter of life and death. It must be taken seriously. It is war! Wonderful, _wonderful_ war. 

Anyway, both parties have given good arguments. I don't see anything wrong here really.

EDIT: 

Though, I am leaning towards Mr. Fixit at the moment because of Marvel's fuckton of feats.


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## Saint Saga (Sep 30, 2012)

Oh true , i forgot about that ...silly me.

With that mentality i won't last long on the battlefield .


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## Tranquil Fury (Sep 30, 2012)

Falcon Man said:


> Isn't it obvious Saga? Debating fictional characters is a matter of life and death. It must be taken seriously. It is war! Wonderful, _wonderful_ war.
> 
> Anyway, both parties have given good arguments. I don't see anything wrong here really.
> 
> ...



Eh this is pretty much why I do as well. With all the feats and powerscaling it's his advantage. Just hope or wish people don't post feats of green Hulk. Green Hulk has fought and beaten Grey Hulk if I recall. Grey Hulk has Hulk's regen and ability to get stronger but he's weaker in base and not by a small amount either.

Prior to this I was going to lean towards Kuwabara and even asking people to post scans to back up their claims but from what I'm seeing Grey Hulk is stronger.

Grey Hulk started out weaker than Ben Grimm, recall Ben stating he was stronger than Grey Hulk in base and with his amped state he'd been looking forward to fight Grey Hulk. Offcourse current Ben should be around his amped form and Grey Hulk himself seems stronger, that Wonderman scan is more recent than classic Marvel. 

Kuwabara could beat an earlier incarnation of Grey Hulk looking back. Not much of an expert on the Grey Hulk so I'll leave that to those who've read more stuff with him. Just no Green Hulk feats or alternate universe feats, otherwise staying out of this shitstorm, already posted more than I should.


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