# Rank IQ levels



## JuicyG (Jul 24, 2014)

*Does Shikamru and his father top everyone ?

If not who is smarter

And provide your top 5 minds plz.*​


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## Turrin (Jul 24, 2014)

Before I would have said Shikaku and Shikkamaru are the best, but after recent events; Hagaromo and Black-Zetsu also seem extremely intelligent. Kakashi and Tobirama are also quite intelligent as well. Than there is Madara who despite being played is still an incredibly accomplished schemer. As well as Itachi who had Hokage level wisdom at age 6 was it. Kabuto also seems very intelligent to see through as much as he did.

So in no order

Shikkamaru
Shikaku
Hagaromo
BZ
Madara
Itachi
Kakashi
Tobirama
Kabuto

If I had to pick the most intelligent I feel as if I'd go with Hagoromo though


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## Cognitios (Jul 24, 2014)

Itachi > Shikamaru > Shikaku > BZ > Hagoromo


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## Kazekage94 (Jul 24, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Before I would have said Shikaku and Shikkamaru are the best, but after recent events; Hagaromo and Black-Zetsu also seem extremely intelligent. Kakashi and Tobirama are also quite intelligent as well. Than there is Madara who despite being played is still an incredibly accomplished schemer. As well as Itachi who had Hokage level wisdom at age 6 was it. Kabuto also seems very intelligent to see through as much as he did.
> 
> So in no order
> 
> ...


Agree except Tobirama is above Itachi


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## Hachibi (Jul 24, 2014)

Itachi>BZ>Madara>Shikaku>Shikamaru


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## Bloo (Jul 24, 2014)

Kazekage94 said:


> Agree except Tobirama is above Itachi


Turrin said "in no order" although I disagree with that notion.


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## Turrin (Jul 24, 2014)

Kazekage94 said:


> Agree except Tobirama is above Itachi





Bloo said:


> Turrin said "in no order" although I disagree with that notion.


Like Bloo said, I said no order. 

As for my thoughts on Itachi vs Tobirama intelligence wise, it really depends on how we define intelligence. If we defined it as IQ + Knowledge as Kishi does in the DB, I see this being a much closer contest as Tobirama knoweldge is probably superior to Itachi's. However if it's just pure IQ, than Itachi is superior, given his feats of intelligence as a child. Simply put

Tobirama > Itachi in Knowledge
Itachi > Tobirama in IQ

To me Tobirama = Itachi overall.

Though bare in mind that is a guess that could easily be wrong. Next chapter Tobirama could be revealed to have 300 IQ or Itachi revealed to have more knowledge. That's why I didn't order these characters, because I feel there isn't enough info, besides Hagaromo, Shikkamaru, and Shikaku probably being at the top.


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## StickaStick (Jul 24, 2014)

Depends on what kind of intelligence you're asking for. In terms of a battle strategy, formulation, etc:

in no particular order:

Kakashi 
Shikkamaru
Shikaku
Tobirama
Itachi
(Kabuto could easily fit in here as well)

Then you have characters like Mads, Obito, Oro and, again, Kabuto who's intelligence mostly lies in their cunning. And for some of them their fighting styles don't necessarily lend themselves to the most analytic of maneuvering. For instance, Mads can turtle up in his PS and swing it's sword GG or use any combination of Rinnegan abilities, but when you get to the core of it he's probably very acute in terms overall battle intelligence, etc.

And of course there are those like Hagoromo, BZ, Mads, Hiruzen, Obito, possibly Oro and Kabuto who are gold mines of knowledge of shinobi history and/or general jutsu knowledge.


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## JuicyG (Jul 24, 2014)

*When I say IQ levels, I'm referring to battle strategy, tight moment situations, being able to analyze faster than the rest.*


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## trance (Jul 24, 2014)

1. Shikaku
2. Shikamaru

_-Smaller Gap-_

3. Itachi/Kakashi
4. Tobirama
5. Obito/Madara


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## Turrin (Jul 24, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> *When I say IQ levels, I'm referring to battle strategy, tight moment situations, being able to analyze faster than the rest.*


If so I probably should add Hiruzen to my list then.


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## Kyu (Jul 24, 2014)

1. Tobirama

2. The rest


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## Arcana (Jul 24, 2014)

1. Shikaku
2. Shikamaru
3. Tobirama
4. Itachi
5. Madara/obito


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## Eliyua23 (Jul 24, 2014)

Battle Strategy

Shikamaru

Shikkaku

Kakashi

Hiruzen

Itachi

Tobirama

Madara

Naruto


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## Ersa (Jul 24, 2014)

In terms of on the fly tactics and analysis.

Itachi, Kakashi and Minato shit on Shikamaru. And they actually have tools to use this analysis while Shikamaru is just fodder.


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## DaVizWiz (Jul 24, 2014)

If we're talking pure IQ:

1. Hagoromo
2. Shikamaru
3. Black Zetsu
4. Shikaku
5. Indra
6. Kakashi
7. Tobirama
8. Itachi
9. Madara
10. Orochimaru

Top 10 Strategists would be a much different list, Black Zetsu, Indra, Orochimaru and Madara would not be on it. These four use their IQ to manipulate, create Jutsu and attain power, they do not formulate plans on the spot.

Top 10 knowledgeable would also be a different list, Shikamaru and Shikuaku don't know shit compared to Black Zetsu, Madara and Orochimaru.


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## Cognitios (Jul 24, 2014)

> If we're talking pure IQ:
> 
> 1. Hagoromo
> 2. Shikamaru
> ...


How are you putting indra on there?
He's got a solid one panel and not one of him talking or displaying even portrayal of intellect.


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## DaVizWiz (Jul 25, 2014)

Cognitios said:


> How are you putting indra on there?
> He's got a solid one panel and not one of him talking or displaying even portrayal of intellect.


Because Hagoromo referred to him as a genius, and considering his offspring... (Madara,  Izuna, Itachi, Sasuke, Obito, Shisui)... there seems to be a recurring genius in Indra's family that stems from him.


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## Cognitios (Jul 25, 2014)

> Because Hagoromo referred to him as a genius, and considering his offspring... (Madara, Izuna, Itachi, Sasuke, Obito, Shisui)... there seems to be a recurring genius in Indra's family that stems from him.


Everyone and their mother is a genius in this manga.
For all we know he could be a fighting genius, hell lee in part 1 was a genius.


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## DaVizWiz (Jul 25, 2014)

Cognitios said:


> Everyone and their mother is a genius in this manga.
> For all we know he could be a fighting genius, hell lee in part 1 was a genius.


Doesn't matter, genius hype by a man that created Ninshu, the moon, perfected Natural Energy inflation and spiritual time travel is well beyond anyone else's dialogue hype capacity. Hagoromo, the greatest mind in the manga, hyped Indra's intelligence and apptitude for combat as if he were something he'd never seen. 

Indra's reincarnations are both considered star minds among the geniuses of the manga (Madara, Sasuke). 

Itachi, Shisui, Kagami, Obito- all stem from his genetics. They were all extremely intelligent.

The Uchiha clan was a collection of genius. The Uchiha Clan came from Indra.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Jul 25, 2014)

If we're talking strategy in battle, Naruto has been fucking around with nearly everyone he fights and continues to fool them. Including Sasuke, Zabuza, Neji, Gaara, Pein, Kaguya, and so on. In terms of in-battle strategy with the character actually being shown doing something instead of being hyped as being smart only characters like Itachi and Shikamaru really compare to Naruto's gambits that always seem to work


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## Complete_Ownage (Jul 25, 2014)

I will attempt to place them in order... 

Hagaromo - For obvous reasons
Black Zetsu - For obvious reasons
Madara - May get his plans trolled a lot but he's still one of the smartest
Kabuto - Similar to orochimaru but in my opinion more tactical and overall smarter
Tobirama - Genuis level interlect, battle tactics, jutsu creation, and pretty much founded the ninja system
Kakashi - Self explanatory...Similar to Itachi and Tobirama
Orochimaru - Similar to Kabuto but slightly less intelligent(for now)
Itachi - Genuis level interlect and battle tactics
Shikaku/ Shikamaru - I placed them this low simply because the others mentioned above are simply...more well rounded overall...history, jutsu creation and etc

Honorable mentions: Minato, Hiruzen, Sasuke, Gaara, Naruto(Has his moments)


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## Mercurial (Jul 25, 2014)

Kakashi, Tobirama, Shikaku, Shikamaru, Minato, Itachi, Black Zetsu, Sasuke, Kabuto, Orochimaru and Hiruzen come as the smartest overall to me.

As for battle tactis (analysis/strategy/insight) I 'd pick Kakashi, Tobirama, Shikaku, Shikamaru, Minato, Itachi, Sasuke, Naruto and Hiruzen.


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## IchLiebe (Jul 25, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> *When I say IQ levels, I'm referring to battle strategy, tight moment situations, being able to analyze faster than the rest.*



Kakashi saving Obito, Sakura, and himself from the lava shits on everyone else feat in this category. He's the king of this. 

Shikamaru and Shikkaku are very smart, but they take too long. One reason Asuma died was because Shikamaru took too long to analyze. Once he gets more experience in battle, he'll be a monster in this.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jul 25, 2014)

In terms of Raw IQ Shikamaru tops everyone. Probably Shikaku comes next. Followed by Itachi.


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## Godaime Tsunade (Jul 25, 2014)

The thing is, a lot of the characters are intelligent in different ways. Shikamaru, Shikaku and Kakashi have incredible strategic minds. In just that, they are far above most other characters. However you've got other characters who are seen as incredibly intelligent because of their huge wealth of knowledge on a wide variety of things in the verse. eg. Hiruzen, Onoki, the Sannin, Madara etc.

For that reason it's really difficult to make a list on IQ, because even a shinobi like Shikamaru with an IQ of 200+ is weaker in some areas of intelligence than other veteran shinobi. For all we know there could be other characters with an IQ just as high, sheerly because of their wealth of knowledge and memory power.

In terms of their natural ability to form strategies and battle plans in and/or out of combat:

1) Shikamaru Nara / Shikaku Nara
2) Kakashi Hatake / Naruto Uzumaki
3) Itachi Uchiha
4) Tobirama Senju
5) Obito Uchiha
6) Sasuke Uchiha 
7) Tsunade
8) Onoki
9) Gaara
10) Danzou Shimura / Konan

In terms of the wealth of their acquired knowledge and ability to then employ that knowledge tactfully in/out of battle:

1) Black Zetsu
2) Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki
3) Orochimaru
4) Kabuto Yakushi
5) Obito Uchiha
6) Danzou Shimura
7) Hiruzen Sarutobi
8) Jiraiya / Tsunade
9) Onoki
10) Hashirama Senju / Tobirama Senju​​


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## IchLiebe (Jul 25, 2014)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> In terms of the wealth of their acquired knowledge and ability to then employ that knowledge tactfully in/out of battle:
> 
> 1) Black Zetsu
> 2) Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki
> ...



Madara should be in the top 3 if not outright number 1.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Jul 25, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Madara should be in the top 3 if not outright number 1.



Maybe if he did anything other than use his superior abilities to fight


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## IchLiebe (Jul 25, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> Maybe if he did anything other than use his superior abilities to fight



Madara's knowledge is the greatest in the manga. He knows damn near everything from Kaguya to Naruto. Sure he was wrong about a thing or two but that was BZ's trolling. He was the only person to ever obtain the rinnegan, to know about the God Tree, the 8 gates (He never saw them, but was still informed to the point that he knew what the 8th gate looks like), the seal on the moon, summoned gedo mazou, used Izanagi, infused himself with Hashi's DNA, curse seals, and a shit ton of other stuff. His knowledge is not to be underestimated.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Jul 25, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Madara's knowledge is the greatest in the manga. He knows damn near everything from Kaguya to Naruto. Sure he was wrong about a thing or two but that was BZ's trolling. He was the only person to ever obtain the rinnegan, to know about the God Tree, the 8 gates (He never saw them, but was still informed to the point that he knew what the 8th gate looks like), the seal on the moon, summoned gedo mazou, used Izanagi, infused himself with Hashi's DNA, curse seals, and a shit ton of other stuff. His knowledge is not to be underestimated.



Knowing =/= applying to actual battle though. Probably the smartest he's done was use PS on Kyuubi, it was actually innovative even if it didn't work out well in the end due to Hashirama BS


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Jul 25, 2014)

I'm only doing 10.

1. BZ
2. Shikaku
3. Shikamaru
4. Madara
5. Obito
6. Tobirama
7. Itachi
8. Minato
9. Sasuke
10. Orochimaru

Edit: Forgot Kakashi. He's probably equal with Tobirama.


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## IchLiebe (Jul 25, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> Knowing =/= applying to actual battle though. Probably the smartest he's done was use PS on Kyuubi, it was actually innovative even if it didn't work out well in the end due to Hashirama BS



He did apply it. That's how he got rinnegan, that's how he got Obito to "work" for him, that's how he became Juubi jin, that's how he did infinite Tsukiyomi, that's how he summoned gedo mazou. And he said applying in and out of battle.


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## Grimsley (Jul 25, 2014)

what about tsunade? to be able to do medicine you need to be extremely intelligent and the fact that she's the best medic in the world must mean she's super smart.


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## Jad (Jul 25, 2014)

Naruto is the pure definition of a character who only gets extremely smart when the author wants him to be. Or something like that.


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## IchLiebe (Jul 25, 2014)

jackieshann said:


> what about tsunade? to be able to do medicine you need to be extremely intelligent and the fact that she's the best medic in the world must mean she's super smart.



I don't think she stacks up to the others.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Jul 25, 2014)

jackieshann said:


> what about tsunade? to be able to do medicine you need to be extremely intelligent and the fact that she's the best medic in the world must mean she's super smart.



Outside of battle she's definitely up there but her fighting style largely is "Tsunade smash"

There was the time she used Ranshinshō on Kabuto though, but that actually made him more than her seems impressive due to him figuring out how to move his body so quickly.


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## DaVizWiz (Jul 25, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> Outside of battle she's definitely up there but her fighting style largely is "Tsunade smash"
> 
> There was the time she used Ranshinshō on Kabuto though, but that actually made him more than her seems impressive due to him figuring out how to move his body so quickly.


What you use in battle is irrelevant, the thread is about highest IQ's- not about strategic smarts. 

Tsunade is the greatest medical ninja in current manga, she makes the smartest doctors in this world look useless- it's irrelevant whether or not her mind shines in battle.

People are suggesting Naruto- the guy is an idiot. His IQ is probably lower than most of the Rookies. He can't even explain his own power adequately, because he doesn't understand it. He occasionally thinks a step ahead of the enemy and has a good idea in battle.


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## RedChidori (Jul 25, 2014)

The Format said:


> Depends on what kind of intelligence you're asking for. In terms of a battle strategy, formulation, etc:
> 
> in no particular order:
> 
> ...



Pretty much this actually .


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## LoveLessNHK (Jul 25, 2014)

Shikaku
Shikamaru
Hagoromo
Black Zetsu
Orochimaru/Kabuto

Or something, idk.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Jul 25, 2014)

LoveLessNHK said:


> Shikaku
> Shikamaru
> Hagoromo
> Black Zetsu
> ...



Black Zetsu isn't all that smart, he just planned things ahead of time.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Jul 25, 2014)

DaVizWiz said:


> What you use in battle is irrelevant, the thread is about highest IQ's- not about strategic smarts.
> 
> Tsunade is the greatest medical ninja in current manga, she makes the smartest doctors in this world look useless- it's irrelevant whether or not her mind shines in battle.
> 
> People are suggesting Naruto- the guy is an idiot. His IQ is probably lower than most of the Rookies. He can't even explain his own power adequately, because he doesn't understand it. He occasionally thinks a step ahead of the enemy and has a good idea in battle.





JuicyG said:


> *When I say IQ levels, I'm referring to battle strategy, tight moment situations, being able to analyze faster than the rest.*



According to the OP, this is his criteria, thus it is very relevant, Naruto is the definition of someone who does well in a pinch


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## Amol (Jul 26, 2014)

Naruto is a battle genius.
Shikamaru, his dad, Minato , Itachi too many intelligent characters.


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