# Yhwach vs Kizaru



## SilverMizuji (Aug 9, 2015)

Location:Hidden Leaf Village
Bloodlusted
no knowledge 
Starting Distance:100m


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## RavenSupreme (Aug 9, 2015)

yhwach takes it handily from what ive read and heard


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## Renegade Knight (Aug 9, 2015)

Bach gets a troll beam through the cranium.


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## Revan Reborn (Aug 9, 2015)

^ not a chance in hell he see's him coming from miles. not to mention there isn't really any difference in speed. so he doesn't have the speed advantage.

What i want to know is what kizaru's DC/dura is.


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## tanman (Aug 9, 2015)

^No difference in speed?
What's Yhwack's best speed feat? Pretty sure Kizaru can be scaled to the best OP speed feat (whatever that is).


Anyway, isn't Yhwack broken for very non-physical reasons. City level reality warping...


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## Revan Reborn (Aug 9, 2015)

he is  mach 1600 , this is lowballed as hell. 
His ability gives him the power to see the future.
as well as taking abilites,(power) not to mention negating abilites like Ichibe's.


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## wowfel (Aug 9, 2015)

> he is mach 1600 , this is lowballed as hell.
> His ability gives him the power to see the future.
> as well as taking abilites,(power) not to mention negating abilites like Ichibe's.


All the quincy abilities were originally his therefore he can take them back he can also steal bankais but that does not mean is capable of stealing kizarus powers.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 9, 2015)

Kizaru is mach 1948, slightly faster . Also, to my knowledge the Almighty isn't battle precog only long-ranged precog, feel free to correct me but that kind of precog isn't helping him in a battle, even more so when Kizaru has battle precog .


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## Regicide (Aug 9, 2015)

We basically don't know anything about how the Almighty works besides the vague information that it lets Yhwach see the future.


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## AgentAAA (Aug 9, 2015)

>wonders where the hell mach 1600 comes from
>realized I was the one that lazycalced that
It took me until now to realize how little of a shit I give about Bleach at this point

If Yuha's able to use fallen sternritter abilities, He takes due to hax and a very low speed disadvantage.
If he isn't, I do believe Kizaru's DC still allows him to take, as to my knowledge Yuha's only island level


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 9, 2015)

^Nope, country level .


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## AgentAAA (Aug 9, 2015)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> ^Nope, country level .



........
the fuck'd I miss?!


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## Sablés (Aug 9, 2015)

Regicide said:


> We basically don't know anything about how the Almighty works besides the vague information that it lets Yhwach see the future.



Wasn't all that difficult.

Almighty lets Yhwach do shit in 3 steps.

>Future Sight
>Can understand every facet of an ability with that sight
>Is then able to counter said ability once he does


Steps 2-3 being obvious NLFs.


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## Tom Servo (Aug 9, 2015)

What'd buttbeard's DC/durability?


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## Sablés (Aug 9, 2015)

Island-level is all that's required to beat Kizaru in the first place.

What was the consensus on that Soul King thread? Pretty sure we've no longer got a reason to believe the Soul King's just a lynchpin, not like that argument was all that solid from the start.


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## Blαck (Aug 9, 2015)

AgentAAA said:


> ........
> the fuck'd I miss?!



I think from Yamamoto bankai scaling


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## AgentAAA (Aug 9, 2015)

BlackniteSwartz said:


> I think from Yamamoto bankai scaling



90% sure even at his tier he shouldn't scale to the single strongest shinigami's suicide ult
not casually at the very least


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## Revan Reborn (Aug 9, 2015)

wowfel said:


> All the quincy abilities were originally his therefore he can take them back he can also steal bankais but that does not mean is capable of stealing kizarus powers.



Zankt altar: has the abilty to take powers from his opponent and gives them to juha.



any ability that he knows of will become his ally. with his almighty ability
His almighty ability gives him the power to see everything that will come in the fight. Its not just long range, he can use it in battle e.g. Ichibes fight.


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## Tom Servo (Aug 9, 2015)

BlackniteSwartz said:


> I think from Yamamoto bankai scaling



Doesn't he have the old fucker's bankai anyway?


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## Sablés (Aug 9, 2015)

AgentAAA said:


> 90% sure even at his tier he shouldn't scale to the single strongest shinigami's suicide ult
> not casually at the very least



Ichibei's feats and standing are above Yama (unless Prime Yama was on some next shit) even in range and Bach turned him into fodder with the Almighty. This being before he jumped tiers via absorbing the SK.

He also kind of has said Bankai anyway.


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## Tom Servo (Aug 9, 2015)

slayedigneel said:


> *he is  mach 1600 *, this is lowballed as hell.
> His ability gives him the power to see the future.
> as well as taking abilites,(power) not to mention negating abilites like Ichibe's.



Is that from the meteor feat? Because that flocking feat keeps jumping around so goddamn much (I think at one point we had it at Sub-Relitivistic speed for a little while)


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## Iwandesu (Aug 9, 2015)

really now ?
it is from the "here is your stupid bleach upgrade" calc people
this was like 3 months ago and we are using this on daily basis


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## Tom Servo (Aug 9, 2015)

So who wants to bet ichigo bypasses Buttbeard's hax with nakama endurance like he did with Ulquiorra? 

Could be worse....he could TNJ him into resurrecting everyone in Seireitei therefore rendering the final arc pointless.


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## Regicide (Aug 9, 2015)

Of all the witty insults you could have come up with for a character

That's as creative as you got? Buttbeard?


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## AgentAAA (Aug 9, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> So who wants to bet ichigo bypasses Buttbeard's hax with nakama endurance like he did with Ulquiorra?
> 
> Could be worse....he could TNJ him into resurrecting everyone in Seireitei therefore rendering the final arc pointless.



Oh bother.
It's probably not even going to be nakama endurance.
His power will just be so high it's on the same plane as Yhwach's and thus immune to such hax. or some shit.
Whatever it is it won't be clever and will be a convenient excuse to let it end with a swordfight that includes lasers and shit.


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## Regicide (Aug 9, 2015)

Liquid said:


> What was the consensus on that Soul King thread?


There wasn't one.


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## AgentAAA (Aug 9, 2015)

Liquid said:


> Ichibei's feats and standing are above Yama (unless Prime Yama was on some next shit) even in range and Bach turned him into fodder with the Almighty. This being before he jumped tiers via absorbing the SK.
> 
> He also kind of has said Bankai anyway.



Ichibei's feats were not above Yama's. He had really impressive hax but in DC he didn't show anything on Yama's level.

Stolen bankai's, additionally, are not on the same level as their original user's. This was proven in Yama's fight with the fodder what stole Sasakibe's bankai.




> Is that from the meteor feat? Because that flocking feat keeps jumping around so goddamn much (I think at one point we had it at Sub-Relitivistic speed for a little while)


nah, it's from the soul king's right hand passing the distance between seireitei and the palace in at most a minutes time


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## trance (Aug 9, 2015)

"Ever been kicked at the speed of light?"


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## Nighty the Mighty (Aug 9, 2015)

threads that didn't need to exist

yhwach destroys him


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## Sablés (Aug 9, 2015)

Regicide said:


> There wasn't one.



Come no Regi, surely you know by now that was rhetoric. 

But seriously, what exactly is the problem here?



AgentAAA said:


> Ichibei's feats were not above Yama's.



Reality warping and screwing over SS's state 100 times over into the future isn't above Yama's feats?



> Stolen bankai's, additionally, are not on the same level as their original user's. This was proven in Yama's fight with the fodder what stole Sasakibe's bankai.



Pretty sure that was in the vein that they haven't properly trained with said, weapons, not necessarily due to a lack of power. As an example,  Byakuya getting fucked by his own was pretty standard procedure, if not better than any of Senbonzakura's previous showings.


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## Imagine (Aug 9, 2015)

Shut up Stables


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## AgentAAA (Aug 9, 2015)

Liquid said:


> Reality warping and screwing over SS's state 100 times over into the future isn't above Yama's feats?


Reality warping is hax and was focused on one human
Not wsure what you mean by the second thing.





> Pretty sure that was in the vein that they haven't properly trained with said, weapons, not necessarily due to a lack of power. As an example,  Byakuya getting fucked by his own was pretty standard procedure, if not better than any of Senbonzakura's previous showings.


Not remotely.
Yamamoto specifically says, while fighting the sternritter he was facing, that Sasakibe's bankai "was not that weak".
It does require training for stolen bankai to get it to their previous level, but that doesn't change the fact that unless you train it, it's weaker.
It's obviously above shikai, but that's still a pretty big gap.
If Yhwach trains to use Yama's bankai, then he could scale to it... When using Yama's bankai, that is.


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## Sablés (Aug 9, 2015)

Imagine said:


> Shut up Stables



Dumpster-kun, pls go 



AgentAAA said:


> Reality warping is hax and was focused on one human
> Not wsure what you mean by the second thing.



They were the same








> Not remotely.
> Yamamoto specifically says, while fighting the sternritter he was facing, that Sasakibe's bankai "was not that weak".
> It does require training for stolen bankai to get it to their previous level, but that doesn't change the fact that unless you train it, it's weaker.
> It's obviously above shikai, but that's still a pretty big gap.
> If Yhwach trains to use Yama's bankai, then he could scale to it... When using Yama's bankai, that is.


Didn't address my point in the least. I'm saying Sasakibe's Bankai is something unrelated to how innately how powerful it is and more to do with whatshisface being incapable of using it properly, something enforced by feats of the only other stole Bankai we see used.



> As an example, Byakuya getting fucked by his own was pretty standard procedure, if not better than any of Senbonzakura's previous showings.



Again, pretty hard to deny visual evidence of a Bankai functioning at optimal capacity. Doesn't also help that Yhwach now _shits _on Yamamoto in reserves so even if it wasn't up to snuff, his vastly greater reiatsu will make up for it.


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## Imagine (Aug 9, 2015)

Kizaru blitzes with his MFTL+ kicks which opens up a black hole and consumes all of Bleachverse but Kiz saves Yoruichi and smokes a blunt with her


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## AgentAAA (Aug 9, 2015)

Liquid said:


> Dumpster-kun, pls go
> 
> 
> 
> They were the same


given he didn't literally seem to rip that time away from the universe, I'm willing to say that's unrelated.
He draws on darkness for power, but it doesn't really take anything from the darkness, he just gets an amp from it.
It also isn't really an energy value since darkness quantifiably has fuck-all you can calculate for energy.




> Didn't address my point in the least. I'm saying Sasakibe's Bankai is something unrelated to how innately how powerful it is and more to do with whatshisface being incapable of using it properly, something enforced by feats of the only other stole Bankai we see used.


It does.
It's specifically noted to be weaker than usual.
Not that he wasn't using it properly.
which means he wasn't capable of producing the energy that hurt yama in his prime and thus was creating a shadow of the energy value the bankai would be able to normally.



> Again, pretty hard to deny visual evidence of a Bankai functioning at optimal capacity. Doesn't also help that Yhwach now _shits _on Yamamoto in reserves so even if it wasn't up to snuff, his vastly greater reiatsu will make up for it.


Weakened bankai is still more than enough to shit all over shikai/base byakuya, so not sure how optimal Byakuya's bankai was at that point, specially when he was also mentally compromised in the first place.


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## Blαck (Aug 9, 2015)

Wait, are we using current Yhwach? Thought we were using the one that fought Ichibei


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## Sablés (Aug 9, 2015)

AgentAAA said:


> given he didn't literally seem to rip that time away from the universe



The man took away darkness from a time _into the future_ and brought it to the present  for an attack meaning it shouldn't exist in that time period anymore. What exactly would you classify that as?



> It also isn't really an energy value since darkness quantifiably has fuck-all you can calculate for energy.



I'm aware




> It does.
> I*t's specifically noted to be weaker than usual.
> Not that he wasn't using it properly.*
> which means he wasn't capable of producing the energy that hurt yama in his prime and thus was creating a shadow of the energy value the bankai would be able to normally.



I'm telling you the bolded are one in the same, fucker can't draw out the Bankai's full power because he hasn't trained with it i,e he cannot use it properly. Something you have already admitted to so I'm really not sure why you're harping on this point.



> It does require training for stolen bankai to get it to their previous level, but that doesn't change the fact that* unless you train it, it's weaker*.



Bolded is what we disagree on because...



> Weakened bankai is still more than enough to shit all over shikai/base byakuya



Only characters on Byakuya's level and the man himself have previously "tanked" Senbonzakura or have scraped by it with moderate damage. Not sure what Byakuya's mental state has to do with durability either.



> Doesn't also help that Yhwach now shits on Yamamoto in reserves so even if it wasn't up to snuff, his vastly greater reiatsu will make up for it.



This is also quite a big deal.


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## Sablés (Aug 9, 2015)

Though even then, I guess that would make the Bankai issue a case-by-case deal


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## AgentAAA (Aug 9, 2015)

Liquid said:


> The man took away darkness from a time _into the future_ and brought it to the present  for an attack meaning it shouldn't exist in that time period anymore. What exactly would you classify that as?


Except there's still plenty of black all around, so...
what the fuck that actually means is... pretty hard to quantify.


I'm aware





> I'm telling you the bolded are one in the same, fucker can't draw out the Bankai's full power because he hasn't trained with it i,e he cannot use it properly. Something you have already admitted to so I'm really not sure why you're harping on this point.


What this means is:
The bankai's energy value doesn't apply fully then.
Meaning it's weaker.




> Bolded is what we disagree on because...


You can disagree all you want.
Fact is Chojiro was capable of leaving a deep scar on Yama's head.
Fodderquincy with the same bankai got completely no-selled by a Yama not in his prime anymore.
So it doesn't hit as hard.
and thus applying the DC is wrong.



> Only characters on Byakuya's level and the man himself have previously "tanked" Senbonzakura or have scraped by it with moderate damage. Not sure what Byakuya's mental state has to do with durability either.


Byakuya's durability mightj ust as easily be PIS, but It's not like stuff below bankai senbonsakura can't still hurt byakuya. It's also not like Byakuya's scaled to senbonzakura Kageyoshi's DC in the first place.
Byakuya didn't tank shit, yeah, but even if his bankai was weaker than normal it's still quite plausible he couldn't tank a direct hit. Especially since it could qualitatively be a PIS coming from the fact Byakuya isn't the type of character to pull off zaraki-like feats like stopping a sword with his bare hand or etc.
My point on his mental state is that it's a good part of why he didn't dodge.



> This is also quite a big deal.


to be fair, one could argue they're not too far apart.
Nothing's qualitatively put him high above Yama yet. On the one hand the power he ate was holding the realms together.
On the other hand Yama's reishi could passively destroy similar areas in bankai.


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## FrozenFeathers (Aug 9, 2015)

The Yhwach that fought Ichibei wins by power steal and by being scaled to Yama's bankai, and by having said bankai.


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## Catalyst75 (Aug 9, 2015)

Liquid said:


> Wasn't all that difficult.
> 
> Almighty lets Yhwach do shit in 3 steps.
> 
> ...



We saw him no-sell a technique that would have used the "blackness" around him to crush the entirety of his body and soul down to nothing, so we should consider that the upper limit for his ability, which basically amounted to him countering an ability based on an abstract concept.

With that said, there is the nature of the Devil Fruit to consider.  We have seen via Blackbeard and the Sea Stones that there are ways to counter and negate Devil Fruit powers (one of the things which makes the Yami Yami no Mi so dangerous).  The question is whether Devil Fruits operate in a way that they could be affected by an ability such as "The Almighty".


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## Tom Servo (Aug 10, 2015)

I look forward to Juha Bach defeating some high Herald level character in Death Battle 

After all this is the same place where Superman has Infinite level lifting strength, Goku's able to potentially reach said infinite level through endless zenkais and TOAA level Spawn is a thing


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## Sablés (Aug 10, 2015)

Oh pls, everyone knows Juice Box is getting decked by a Getsuga

Its just a matter of when


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## Blαck (Aug 10, 2015)

Liquid said:


> Oh pls, everyone knows Juice Box is getting decked by a Getsuga
> 
> Its just a matter of when



You never know, Kubo might come through finally give Ichigo a new move :ignoramus


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## BreakFlame (Aug 10, 2015)

BlackniteSwartz said:


> You never know, Kubo might come through finally give Ichigo a new move :ignoramus



He did.



Now he can fire _two_ Getsugas at once. In a fancy cross pattern, even.


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## Tom Servo (Aug 10, 2015)

BreakFlame said:


> He did.
> 
> 
> 
> Now he can fire _two_ Getsugas at once. In a fancy cross pattern, even.



I suppose its what Kubo plans on retconning next that I'm the most interested in 

maybe his real zanpakatous are his parents, and Isshin is just a fleshy avatar :


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## Tom Servo (Aug 10, 2015)

BlackniteSwartz said:


> Kubo prolly patted himself on the back for that one



poor Kubo is in a constant state of trying to outdo himself since the Yammy twist.


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## Regicide (Aug 10, 2015)

Kubo forgot how to write fights honestly 

You didn't see this constant retarded "every character has some sort of unique power and gimmick that takes two chapters to explain" in say, Ichigo vs Byakuya or Ichigo vs Grimmjow


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## HiroshiSenju (Aug 10, 2015)

People who still think Yama > Ichibei


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## Tom Servo (Aug 10, 2015)

Regicide said:


> Kubo forgot how to write fights honestly
> 
> You didn't see this constant retarded "every character has some sort of unique power and gimmick that takes two chapters to explain" in say, Ichigo vs Byakuya or Ichigo vs Grimmjow



The Espada's unique abilities kinded of added a unique change to all the flying around with swords n shit but with the sternritters.....all of their abilities are completely retarded and lazy

One of them is a fat indian dude with the power of love another is a fish-lipped Aizen with the power of...overdose and then there's commissioner Gordon and Thor


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## Tapion (Aug 10, 2015)

I liked Nodt's ability tbh (fear guy). Hitting people with darts that mind fucked whatever it hits was pretty cool, the same goes for him making a dome of eyes that did the same thing minus the need to hit someone. 

His slipknot design was godlike as well


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## SilverMizuji (Aug 10, 2015)

The way I see it Arrancar: Overwhelming fire power eg Ulqi Lanza
                             Quincy:More hax based 
                         Shinigami:A mix of both

It's kind annoying when it comes to dps with bleach since most fights happen with no backrounds or in the Air which is pretty much the same.Ichibei Palm skill i would of loved to see someone get hit into the ground with it.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 10, 2015)

As Nodt's design and power were actually good, I, that stopped reading Bleach ages ago, read the chapters where he fought jut because of his design and power .


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## Tom Servo (Aug 10, 2015)

Tapion said:


> I liked Nodt's ability tbh (fear guy). Hitting people with darts that mind fucked whatever it hits was pretty cool, the same goes for him making a dome of eyes that did the same thing minus the need to hit someone.
> 
> His slipknot design was godlike as well



As Nodt is the exception, I also kind of liked that robot (up until he became a total pussy)


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## Pocalypse (Aug 10, 2015)

As Nodt's design was good up until this atrocity occured



I don't find that remotely scary or horrific whereas his original design was


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## Tapion (Aug 10, 2015)

The point was that he got so ridiculous that he wasn't scary any more, as Byakuya pointed out. That isn't a takeaway from the character.

The Stern Ritter designs that really stood out were (IMO)

BG9 (he had that terminator vibe)
Cang Du (I like stereotypical anime asian characters) 
Kirige (his design and attitude were top notch, he screams German) 
Commissioner Gordon (He was a fave among the fans, I too like how he carries himself)
As Nodt (the best of the best)
Lille Barro (inspiration from Django I believe)
Quincy Thor (It's Quincy thor, what's not to love?)
Shaz domino (he literally got oneshot, but we saw his design in that new bleach book and its pretty bad ass) 

I low key Like Gremmy's design and pissant attitude. 

My problem is kubo shafting the interesting Stern Ritters for guys like Pepe.....Hell my problem is kubo shafting the SternRitters altogether, its as if the new Stern Ritters were a bunch of freakshows.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 10, 2015)

Agreed, my brothas .


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## Tom Servo (Aug 10, 2015)

Tapion said:


> The point was that he got so ridiculous that he wasn't scary any more, as Byakuya pointed out. That isn't a takeaway from the character.
> 
> The Stern Ritter designs that really stood out were (IMO)
> 
> ...



The fact that Thor has been Kubo-fied. He had a real oppurtunity to be original with this one, make him have some sort of norse god complex or something give him an interesting characteristic but instead he's basically just Yammy's character


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## Regicide (Aug 10, 2015)

What

Yammy was an all-brawn, no brains, lazy sack of shit

Miracle just seems to like fighting

How are they the same


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## Tom Servo (Aug 10, 2015)

Regicide said:


> What
> 
> Yammy was *an all-brawn, no brains*, lazy sack of shit
> 
> ...




...........


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## Sablés (Aug 10, 2015)

How are those mutually inclusive?

Have you seen Hisoka? Dumb brute and lazy doesn't exactly fit the bill here.


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## AgentAAA (Aug 10, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> ...........



how the hell do those correlate?
That's like saying Goku or vegeta = Yammy.


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## Regicide (Aug 10, 2015)

Enjoying fights must equate to being a musclebound idiot, apparently.


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## Pocalypse (Aug 10, 2015)

Tapion said:


> The point was that he got so ridiculous that he wasn't scary any more, as Byakuya pointed out. That isn't a takeaway from the character.



Err it kinda of is, that's my whole point. As Nodt was better in his original form then became a shit character with a shit appearance when he fought Rukia and Byakuya round 2. It just went..."meh"


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## Tom Servo (Aug 10, 2015)

AgentAAA said:


> how the hell do those correlate?
> That's like saying Goku or vegeta = Yammy.



have you not been reading bleach for very long? He's the muscle stererotype because that's how Kubo writes guys like him.



Regicide said:


> Enjoying fights must equate to being a musclebound idiot, apparently.



In Blech they do....especially when they shout it out to show how violent they are.


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## Regicide (Aug 10, 2015)

So in conclusion

You haven't been paying attention to even the most basic details


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## Tom Servo (Aug 10, 2015)

Regicide said:


> So in conclusion
> 
> You haven't been paying attention to even the most basic details



Pointing out Kubo lazy writing style wasn't easy enough for you to understand? Obviously he's not as dumb as Yammy but my point was that he's the big violent type....which is what Yammy is.

Keep up man...


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## Regicide (Aug 10, 2015)

Kubo's writing is one thing

Failing to even comprehend his writing or characterization on a simple level is actually worse


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## Regicide (Aug 10, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> Obviously he's not as dumb as Yammy but my point was that he's the big violent type


I mean if you have to mince details like that, it's obviously not as recycled like you're suggesting


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## Sablés (Aug 10, 2015)

Only we know shit-all about him (though given the level of writing we're talking here, its very possible that's all there is to know besides whatever ridiculous ability he has)  to say he's like Yammy. He's boisterous (positively whereas Yammy was just a dick)  and loud, seems pretty standard for a Thor-clone.

Anyway, the only Stern Ritter worth their salt:



> BG9 (he had that terminator vibe)
> Cang Du (I like stereotypical anime asian characters)
> *Kirige *(his design and attitude were top notch, he screams German)
> Commissioner Gordon (He was a fave among the fans, I too like how he carries himself)
> ...



The bolded have proven to be worth shit, the others either haven't shown enough of were just insert villain of the week with names and faces.

Kirge
As Nodt
Bazz-B
Haschbrowns
Mask
Askin

Askin being the best Quincy by far. Not sure what any of this has to do with Juice Box and Kiz though.


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## Tom Servo (Aug 10, 2015)

Regicide said:


> Kubo's writing is one thing
> 
> Failing to even comprehend his writing or characterization on a simple level is actually worse



Wow I didnt think you could be this dense, giving you too much credit was definitely a mistake on my part ill give you that.


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## Dr. White (Aug 10, 2015)

Haschwalth teh GOAT


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## Tapion (Aug 10, 2015)

Liquid said:


> Anyway, the only Stern Ritter worth their salt:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That Bambi bitches did put in work despite their villain of the week status, everyone thought they were fraccion tier Stern Ritters and they lasted the longest.


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## Regicide (Aug 10, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> Wow I didnt think you could be this dense, giving you too much credit was definitely a mistake on my part ill give you that.


No

Seriously

There's nothing else I can call it, if you're going to be so obtuse as to lump all characters with "violent" traits into the same category

Liking fights has jack all to do with that, in the same way that it has jack all to do with being a lazy barbarian

You're putting together distinct things as if they all automatically correlate, which is retarded


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## Blαck (Aug 10, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> Haschwalth teh GOAT



Blonde Ichigo


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## Dr. White (Aug 10, 2015)

BlackniteSwartz said:


> Blonde Ichigo



If anything he's the blonde Byakuya lmao


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## Catalyst75 (Aug 10, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> The fact that Thor has been Kubo-fied. He had a real oppurtunity to be original with this one, make him have some sort of norse god complex or something give him an interesting characteristic but instead he's basically just Yammy's character



Yammy's character was never the friendly guy towards anyone, which Gerard seems to be towards Uryu, once Uryu earned his approval.


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## Tapion (Aug 11, 2015)

Yammy was an asshole, Driscrol Berci is the only person that comes to mind as a carbon copy.


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## Tom Servo (Aug 11, 2015)

Regicide said:


> No
> 
> Seriously
> 
> ...



They're called character stereotypes and its what all lazy writers do....


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## Sablés (Aug 11, 2015)

And the issue is you're enforcing unrelated stereotypes and thinking because they correlate in one character, they must do so in all the others. When Bleach already has a shitton of generic blood knights that aren't remotely similar to Yammy.


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## Tom Servo (Aug 11, 2015)

Liquid said:


> And the issue is you're enforcing unrelated stereotypes and thinking because they correlate in one character, they must do so in all the others. When Bleach already has a shitton of generic blood knights that aren't remotely similar to Yammy.



>Says I'm basing all the charcaters with violent personalities in with Yammy

>Only comparing Thor copy

He's big, stupid, violent, loves fighting and is the tank of the top elites.

How this can be incomprehensible to you is nothing short of amazing.

Also love how ya'alls arguments are "well neckbeard is more like Yammy because he looks like him" not only is that a double standard invalid argument but that is completely irrelevant to my point and Yammy was just a fucking example.


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## Sablés (Aug 11, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> He's big, stupid, violent, loves fighting and is the tank of the top elites.



In other words. Kenpachi Goku Vegeta and thousands of blood knights across the board are all the same as Yammy because they're bulky, love fighting  and are  relatively low on the intelligence scale. Ignoring whatever facets of their characteristics that separate them.

Just take the L and admit you said something dumb as shit.


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## Tom Servo (Aug 11, 2015)

Liquid said:


> In other words. Kenpachi Goku Vegeta and thousands of blood knights across the board are all the same as Yammy because they're bulky, love fighting  and are damn low on the intelligence scale.
> 
> Just take the L and admit you said something dumb as shit.



None of them are even low on the intelligence scale... and Goku isn't even violent. Vegeta most certainly isn't a tank nor is he big.

Get your act together.


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## Sablés (Aug 11, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> None of them are even low on the intelligence scale



And Gerard, _is_? Pray tell, how did you deduce this?

Kenpachi's also known for some dumbass stunts mind you.




> ... and Goku isn't even violent.



Repeat this to yourself until you realize how retarded this sounds.



> Vegeta most certainly isn't a tank nor is he big.



Dude is ripped. I also don't what see what appearance has to do with character.


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## Tom Servo (Aug 11, 2015)

Liquid said:


> And Gerard, _is_? Pray tell, how did you deduce this?
> 
> Kenpachi's also known for some dumbass stunts mind you.
> 
> ...




1. That makes him impulsive not stupid.

2. He's not...

3. Then obviously you shouldn't jump into an argument with half-assed knowledge...Vegeta is 5"5 he is by no means big or a tank...


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## AgentAAA (Aug 11, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> 2. He's not...




dude literally, just this week, decided to attempt to pound the shit out of beerus for no other reason than curiosity.
In his first appearance he punches a fish to death and when angered throws a fucking car.
Goku is one of the more violent people out there and a mass murderer for that matter.


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## Tom Servo (Aug 11, 2015)

AgentAAA said:


> dude literally, just this week, decided to attempt to pound the shit out of beerus for no other reason than curiosity.
> In his first appearance he punches a fish to death and when angered throws a fucking car.
> Goku is one of the more violent people out there and a mass murderer for that matter.



1. Sparring with someone isn't even an act of violence or hostility

2. it was for food....fish=/=a human being

3. He was defending himself....


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## Zern227 (Aug 11, 2015)

Goku's need for violence caused the whole planet to blow up.


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## AgentAAA (Aug 11, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> 1. Sparring with someone isn't even an act of violence or hostility


It most certainly is an act of violence.
When you attempt to punch a human being it's an act of violence.
Whether it's acceptable is another matter.



			
				the Definition of violence said:
			
		

> vi?o?lent
> ˈvī(ə)lənt/Submit
> adjective
> using or involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something.


Giant energy beams destroying the majority of poor north Kai's property count.




> 2. it was for food....fish=/=a human being


Violence isn't restricted to a species either.



> 3. He was defending himself....



When he stormed directly into the Red Ribbon army base? He wasn't defending shit-all. he was the aggressor.
When he intentionally let the androids appear for the sake of having someone on his level to fight? That's not "defending himself" either.

though really, I could go on with those sorts of examples, but I'll break this down to a couple simple points:
He enjoys fighting to the extreme and isn't happy unless he's fighting or training to do exactly that. Some of the best times in his life, to him, were when he was punching in Vegeta and Piccolo's shit or slapping Frieza several hundred times in a row


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## Tom Servo (Aug 11, 2015)

AgentAAA said:


> It most certainly is an act of violence.
> When you attempt to punch a human being it's an act of violence.
> Whether it's acceptable is another matter.
> 
> ...



Obviously violence in the context used is attacking or hurting other people. Yes it most certainly is species exclusive. If he was hunting a fish for food its fine, if he were to hunt innocent people for food it wouldn't be.

Being a martial artist=/= violent atleast not to the extent that Yammy or Carbon Copy Thor is. You guys are cherry picking here, christs's sake.



Zern227 said:


> Goku's need for violence caused the whole planet to blow up.



That just makes him stupid not unlike that argument.


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## Sablés (Aug 11, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> That just makes him stupid not unlike that argument.





Tom Servo said:


> None of them are even low on the intelligence scale...



Now that we've got that bullshit double standard out of the picture.

You've actually yet to answer  the question. What the fuck about Gerard is violent then? What has he done that makes him stupid? What are the implications that he likes fighting? What the actual fuck makes him like Yammy at all?


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## AgentAAA (Aug 11, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> Obviously violence in the context used is attacking or hurting other people. Yes it most certainly is species exclusive. If he was hunting a fish for food its fine, if he were to hunt innocent people for food it wouldn't be.


Excellent. So I'm not violent if I punch a cat while I'm in a mood?
again, doesn't explain him marching into the red ribbon base and slaughtering an entire army.



> Being a martial artist=/= violent atleast not to the extent that Yammy or Carbon Copy Thor is. You guys are cherry picking here, christs's sake.


Being willing to beat up people for the fun of it(and goku freely admits it's fun and he loves it, that's the entire reason Namek blew up is that he drew out the fight with Frieza.) is




> That just makes him stupid not unlike that argument.


not really. He knew exactly what he was doing. He just didn't care. He wanted to fight frieza that badly.


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## Pocalypse (Aug 11, 2015)

Gerard is nothing like Yammy, for starters Yammy doesn't give a darn about his allies. This is the guy who ripped his arm through a fodder's face after the said fodder healed him, attacked his allies like Menoly and Rudebone and generally didn't give a darn about the Espada, treating them as trash. 

Gerard atleast gives a shit about his allies like Pernida and Ishida (after gaining his approval), you don't see him attacking his own allies just to test out his strength or out of anger.


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## Zern227 (Aug 11, 2015)

Goku's need for violence is what caused the destruction of the planet. If he truly didn't need violence he would have kill Freeza instead of playing around the entire time.


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## Renegade Knight (Aug 11, 2015)

Might as well just lock the thread at this point. The match up isn't even being discussed any more.


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## Tom Servo (Aug 11, 2015)

AgentAAA said:


> Excellent. So I'm not violent if I punch a cat while I'm in a mood?
> again, doesn't explain him marching into the red ribbon base and slaughtering an entire army.
> 
> 
> ...



1. Again you're splitting hairs here. He was hunting an animal for food, he didn't pummel a fish because well "fuck that thing". He didn't even slaughter them and they were shooting at him for god's sake

2. Frieza is a psychotic tyrant. And he was putting the fear of god into him like he was with everyone else for so many years....it's called karma

3. oh that poor....uninhabitable planet....how does that make him as violent as a moronic Bleach villain again?


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## Pocalypse (Aug 11, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> 3. oh that poor....uninhabitable planet....how does that make him as violent as a moronic Bleach villain again?



How do you know Gerard is stupid? You have fuck all to go on about his intelligence


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## Tom Servo (Aug 11, 2015)

Pocalypse said:


> How do you know Gerard is stupid? You have fuck all to go on about his intelligence



Aside from jumping face first in combat while even the noob Askin knew better.


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## Sablés (Aug 11, 2015)

You heard it folks, attacking first clearly means you're an idiot.

Dude, you were literally just making excuses for Kenpachi doing the same fucking shit. 



> 1. That makes him impulsive not stupid


Only this is worse because Ken did it _twice_. Can you even be consistent with your bullshit?


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## Tom Servo (Aug 11, 2015)

Liquid said:


> You heard it folks, attacking first clearly means you're an idiot.
> 
> Dude, you were literally just making excuses for Kenpachi doing the same fucking shit.
> 
> ...



Except Kenpachi acts impulsively so the fight would be more amusing....so the enemy will draw his blood its a game he wants to find challenging....BetaThor is just a moron.


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## Sablés (Aug 11, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> Except Kenpachi acts impulsively so the fight would be more amusing



Some fight. He lost an arm and had his legs broken in 2 moves. Had Mayuri not saved his ass, he'd be a puddle of ketchup right now.

That my friend, is what we call a dumbass but by all means, dig a bigger hole for yourself.


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## Tom Servo (Aug 11, 2015)

Liquid said:


> Some fight. He lost an arm and had his legs broken in 2 moves. Had Mayuri not saved his ass, he'd be a puddle of ketchup right now.



Again you're just reinforcing my statement....way to shoot yourself in the leg.


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## AgentAAA (Aug 11, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> 1. Again you're splitting hairs here. He was hunting an animal for food, he didn't pummel a fish because well "fuck that thing". He didn't even slaughter them and they were shooting at him for god's sake


He literally killed everyone there.
They weren't shooting at him until he literally charged at their base head-on with a stick and started beating the lviing shit out of them.



> 2. Frieza is a psychotic tyrant. And he was putting the fear of god into him like he was with everyone else for so many years....it's called karma


Great except that wasn't Goku's motivation.
He wanted to fight the best in the universe and was willing to die on-planet just for the chance of punching his face in.



> 3. oh that poor....uninhabitable planet....how does that make him as violent as a moronic Bleach villain again?


Uninhabitable?
huh. Didn't know the homeplanet of the Namekian race was uninhabitable.
The planet They'd been inhabiting that day.
The planet covered in grass and trees and frogs.
Uninhabitable.

No but seriously did you read dragon ball?


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## Solar (Aug 11, 2015)

I guess the mods like the activity this thread brings. Servo should be promoted to reinvigorate the board like the grandpas want.


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## Regicide (Aug 11, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> Except Kenpachi acts impulsively so the fight would be more amusing....so the enemy will draw his blood its a game he wants to find challenging....BetaThor is just a moron.


The mental gymnastics to make this work is kind of spectacular

These ellipses are also starting to look like eerily like Shade posts, though that's besides the point

Anyhow, charging into combat without heed for your opponent's abilities outside of "I just need to cut him down before he does anything" is basically the same thing as


Tom Servo said:


> jumping face first in combat



That fact doesn't change even if Kenny likes challenges

You can't have a good fight if you're fucking dead


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## Tom Servo (Aug 11, 2015)

AgentAAA said:


> He literally killed everyone there.
> They weren't shooting at him until he literally charged at their base head-on with a stick and started beating the lviing shit out of them.
> 
> 
> ...



1. No...they were shooting at him, also they're an evil army. 

2. The whole point of him going there was to be back-up for his friends, fighting Frieza is a bonus

3. Clearly you stopped reading when there was fucking lava ejaculating out of every part of the planet



Regicide said:


> The mental gymnastics to make this work is kind of spectacular
> 
> These ellipses are also starting to look like eerily like Shade posts, though that's besides the point
> 
> ...



1. Only when you bring up a decent argument do you have any right to criticize what someone else is even saying. 

2. Fighting is a game death is the loss. This has been part of his character since the beginning. Saying he's stupid because of this is just making your argument sound hypocritical.


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## AgentAAA (Aug 11, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> 1. No...they were shooting at him, also they're an evil army.


Yeah, they were shooting at him the whole time.
He didn't literally beat Taopaipai, have a rest, tell Upa "I'm going to go destroy the red ribbon army now" and then do exactly that.
Seriously, no matter how you slice it he invaded them.
Also, "they're evil" doesn't make it less violent.
If I beat up a dude on the street who's a rapist... I still beat him up.
That's still a violent act.



> 2. The whole point of him going there was to be back-up for his friends, fighting Frieza is a bonus


One he literally got stoked about. Though you're really missing the point.
The only reason he had to stay there after the dragonballs got recharged(which is fairly obviously what I'm referencing.) was so he could fight Frieza, because he didn't think he'd be able to get a fight like that ever again.



> 3. Clearly you stopped reading when there was fucking lava ejaculating out of every part of the planet


And who let it get to that point again?
Oh, right.
Since that literally happened because Goku sat there and let him hit the core rather than finishing him off because he wanted to play with Frieza a bit more.
I don't think you read the same manga I did since you think that it was uninhabitable before that, but the reason Namek is like that, which is the main point I was making, is because Goku. Wanted. A fight.


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## Tom Servo (Aug 12, 2015)

AgentAAA said:


> Yeah, they were shooting at him the whole time.
> He didn't literally beat Taopaipai, have a rest, tell Upa "I'm going to go destroy the red ribbon army now" and then do exactly that.
> Seriously, no matter how you slice it he invaded them.
> Also, "they're evil" doesn't make it less violent.
> ...




1. destroy the army=/=slaughter everyone. He went got the dragon balls beat the crap out of armed soldiers who attacked him and then peaced the fuck out. And even then it doesn't make him like Kenpachi or less convincing Thor

2. The point of what he did was to teach Frieza humility which nearly backfired on him. Besides the plan was for him to escape anyway and he was successful 

3. Frieza...
If he didn't fight everyone would have died....

What's hilarious is how fucking defensive everyone's getting for a carbon copy Bleach character....I was categorizing his type with Yammy (big, dumb antagonist who loves combat)

You guys tried forcing the category even further involving Goku in a vain attempt to contradict me, you failed miserably....get over it.


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## Solar (Aug 12, 2015)

What's as hilarious is that you've continued this argument this long over Bleach and Dragon Ball characters.


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## Tom Servo (Aug 12, 2015)

Frederica Bernkastel said:


> What's as hilarious is that you've continued this argument this long over Bleach and Dragon Ball characters.



You seem to be lost because that sentence proves you clearly have no idea where you are right now...


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## Solar (Aug 12, 2015)

I would try to hide my shame too if I had spent my time arguing about this.


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## Tom Servo (Aug 12, 2015)

Frederica Bernkastel said:


> I would try to hide my shame too if I had spent my time arguing about this.



I'd imagine so, since you were arguing this too.

You need more trolling practice because....wow you are terrible at this.


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## Solar (Aug 12, 2015)

That's why I'm hiding my shame right now as best as I can. As you should too.


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## The Saltiest Pizza (Aug 12, 2015)

How did this thread turn into Yhwach vs. Kizaru into a shitstorm about whether Gerard is an idiot or not?


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## Sablés (Aug 12, 2015)

Because Servo is a clown and this thread was a mismatch from the start


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## Solar (Aug 12, 2015)

I wasn't here to attention whore soon enough. I take full responsibility.


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## Regicide (Aug 12, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> 11. Only when you bring up a decent argument do you have any right to criticize what someone else is even saying.
> 
> 2. Fighting is a game death is the loss. This has been part of his character since the beginning. Saying he's stupid because of this is just making your argument sound hypocritical.


Please, continue deflecting instead of actually putting up a rebuttal.

I never said he was dumb. I said he was charging into combat head on. You're the one making the implication that that kind of behavior is dumb.

Never mind that you're missing the point.

Just fighting isn't the goal. Kenny wants _good_ fights. Fights he can't have if he gets turned to pulp in the first exchange, an outcome that could have been easily avoided.


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## Imagine (Aug 12, 2015)

The fuck is going on in here?


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## Blαck (Aug 12, 2015)

Imagine said:


> The fuck is going on in here?



HsT shenanigans


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## Sablés (Aug 12, 2015)

Imagine said:


> The fuck is going on in here?



Evidently, Goku and Kenpachi never did anything wrong 

What's that got to do with Kizaru and Bach? Your guess is as good as mine


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## Imagine (Aug 12, 2015)

Sounds about right


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## Imagine (Aug 12, 2015)

Liquid said:


> Evidently, Goku and Kenpachi never did anything wrong


Goku is the reason child services exist


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## Sablés (Aug 12, 2015)

Imagine said:


> Goku is the reason child services exist



And yet Chi-Chi's the reason Gohan's such a failure.  How does that work?


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## Imagine (Aug 12, 2015)

Akira Toriyama logic


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## AgentAAA (Aug 12, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> 1. destroy the army=/=slaughter everyone. He went got the dragon balls beat the crap out of armed soldiers who attacked him and then peaced the fuck out. And even then it doesn't make him like Kenpachi or less convincing Thor


Yeah
breaking into someone's base, and just blitzing everyone like he did is being the aggressor.
If you break into a military base of course they're going to shoot at you. You literally just broke into their base.
And "knocked out", lel.
We never see the red ribbon army again and they're explicitly noted as "Wiped out" there.
if all he'd done was knock them out, that wouldn't have been how it went down.
At the least, we know for a fact he kills the shit out of admiral black. Unless you're going to sit here and say the kamehameha that broke through his robot just happened to knock him out.
that's pretty violent.
And keep track of your argument.
your argument was that violent = stupid
Not that being like kenpachi = stupid or that Goku's like Thor.
Your argument was an exclusive qualifier that violent ='d stupid.
Which I called you out on given both Goku and Vegeta are violent people who like to solve their problems with a kick to the face.



> 2. The point of what he did was to teach Frieza humility which nearly backfired on him. Besides the plan was for him to escape anyway and he was successful


Not different from what I said.
He wanted to violently kick the crap out of frieza and make him say he was sorry.
That's a VIOLENT SOLUTION to a problem.
If Goku was a peaceful sort he would have finished him off quickly.
The plan was to beat frieza and go home, yes, and he did, yes.
After a planet that his friends and family were on nearly blew up for the sake of him fighting.
He even let Frieza go up to 100% just because he wanted the pleasure of fighting the strongest in the universe at his best.
Rather than finishing him quickly and going home with Gohan and bulma and co. who were waitiing for him so they could get off the exploding planet.
"It worked out in the end" doesn't really change the fact he exposed them all to unnecessary danger so he could have a proper bout.



> 3. Frieza...
> If he didn't fight everyone would have died....


You're right.
If he didn't fight Frieza like a dumbass everyone wouldn't have nearly died due to Namek's explosion and they wouldn't have had to wish back an entire planet of life.
There's literally no one arguing Goku had to fight Frieza.
What IS arguable isunnecessarily holding back and doing the "no I need to beat him personally instead of just fucking off with my family and friends like I have a great opportunity to do" is the mark of a violent person.
And that that doesn't detract from his intelligence remotely.


> What's hilarious is how fucking defensive everyone's getting for a carbon copy Bleach character....I was categorizing his type with Yammy (big, dumb antagonist who loves combat)


By saying "oh, he's violent so that makes him just like Yammy



> You guys tried forcing the category even further involving Goku in a vain attempt to contradict me, you failed miserably....get over it.


Because you literally blanketed all violent people as dumbasses. like Yammy.
Yammy doesn't even love combat so not sure where you're getting that from. Fucker's pretty lazy, generally prefers sitting on his ass and eating.


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## Tom Servo (Aug 12, 2015)

Liquid said:


> Evidently, Goku and Kenpachi never did anything wrong



If that's whats left of your argument...then I feel bad because clearly I've been picking on a retard this whole time.


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## Tom Servo (Aug 12, 2015)

AgentAAA said:


> Yeah
> breaking into someone's base, and just blitzing everyone like he did is being the aggressor.
> If you break into a military base of course they're going to shoot at you. You literally just broke into their base.
> And "knocked out", lel.
> ...



1. No buttercup my argument is that BetaThor is violent and stupid...not that violent=stupid...and Teh Red Ribbon Army was picking a fight with him first, they were the aggressors. He went in and finished the job

2. I sure hope for your sake this is a misunderstanding on your part because stopping an evil tyrant and teaching him humility the only way doesn't make him like Kenpachi or Yammy...at all

3. Frieza would have blown up the planet anyway and killed all his friends and any chances they had of reviving everyone.

4. No what I said was he was a violent type like Yammy.....not that he's violent= he's Yammy

5. Obviously that's not even what I said.....fucking get it right. And Yammy does love fighting. He was eating and sleeping to build up strength....so he could fight.


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## Pocalypse (Aug 12, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> Aside from jumping face first in combat while even the noob Askin knew better.



Making the first move makes you stupid? Thank god you don't write battles otherwise all your characters would be at a standstill


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## Nighty the Mighty (Aug 12, 2015)

why is this still open and still terrible?


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## Sherlōck (Aug 12, 2015)

Kizaru doesn't give a single fuck. He offers YHack weed & they smoke it together.


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## Regicide (Aug 12, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> If that's whats left of your argument...then I feel bad because clearly I've been picking on a retard this whole time.


That deflection 


Tom Servo said:


> 5. Obviously that's not even what I said.....fucking get it right. And Yammy does love fighting. He was eating and sleeping to build up strength....so he could fight.


Does it not occur to you that building up strength to fight

And particularly enjoying fights

Aren't necessarily inclusive


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## ~M~ (Aug 12, 2015)

Not only is Bleach Faster but Yhwach's ability just says 'fuck yours I'm almighty' 
How is this a fight at all? 
He zero difficult stomped the strongest Royal Guard


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## OneSimpleAnime (Aug 12, 2015)

em senpai said:


> Not only is Bleach Faster but Yhwach's ability just says 'fuck yours I'm almighty'
> How is this a fight at all?
> He zero difficult stomped the strongest Royal Guard



Bleach isnt faster. theyre mach 1600 vs One Piece's mach 2000. Admirals have higher durability too at 1.2 tertons while Yhwach is at gigatons for dura and DC


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## AgentAAA (Aug 12, 2015)

Sherlōck said:


> Kizaru doesn't give a single fuck. He offers YHack weed & they smoke it together.



Best answer of thread


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## KaiserWombat (Aug 13, 2015)

This thread is so much worse than I could possibly conceive, even factoring in the core facts that it is (1) a HST vs thread that (2) has lasted longer than 2-3 pages.

On behalf of all denziens, regular and transient, of the Outskirts Battledome sub-forum, I humbly apologise for not halting this progression of volatile waste sooner.

Just...ugh, how did I enable this sort of behaviour where a freaking *Goku* debate can slither into a HST thread with impunity...


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