# Crocodile Vs. Gaara Vs. Sandman



## Lance Vance (Mar 12, 2009)

I searched, and the search function gave me crap.

I just wanted to know peoples opinion on who you think would win out of the *Triple Threat Match*

Each of them are the Sand Gods in their Comics/Mangas and have shown the power to manipulate large quantities of sand to be formidable fighters.

Each character is aware of each others weakness, so this battle also involves smarts. 

*Weaknesses:* 
(Gaara = Chakra Consumption) 
(Crocodile = Water) 
(Sandman = Getting kicked the shit out of/the way venom beat him in the comic)

*Battle field:* Any wasteland.

Everyone is at their peak. Who would win?


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## Quelsatron (Mar 12, 2009)

as usual croc rapes gaara but i dont read american comics so i have no idea about sandman


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## chulance (Mar 12, 2009)

Hmm this is a crazy matchup. Sandman has powers on a whole nother level he has become a massive sand giant and controlled large amounts of sand. Crocodile comes up second I think he can absorb the moisture from people  and Gaara can't actually become sand so I think he's the weakest. Although he can become Shakaku   I still think Crocodile can wipe him out but yeah Sandman wins.


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## Slips (Mar 12, 2009)

Gaara dies and either Sandman wins or he and Croc cancel each other out


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## Itachi2000 (Mar 12, 2009)

whatever happens the naruto character gets raped 
OBD tradition


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## Neo-jplaya (Mar 12, 2009)

Lance Vance said:


> I searched, and the search function gave me crap.
> 
> I just wanted to know peoples opinion on who you think would win out of the *Triple Threat Match*
> 
> ...


well, I know Gaara losees, that's for sure.


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## Lance Vance (Mar 12, 2009)

chulance said:


> Hmm this is a crazy matchup. *Sandman has powers on a whole nother level* he has become a massive sand giant and controlled large amounts of sand. Crocodile comes up second I think he can absorb the moisture from people  and Gaara can't actually become sand so I think he's the weakest. Although he can become Shakaku   I still think Crocodile can wipe him out but yeah Sandman wins.



True, but that didn't stop venom killing him off (figuratively) and spiderman pummeling on countless occassions.

(Venom killed him by ripping off chunks of him and eating them)


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## Inugami (Mar 12, 2009)

Croc has a better moveset Sandman isn't that powerful bu at least he can take gaara.


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## Narcissus (Mar 12, 2009)

This forum needs another match involving Gaara and Crocodile like you need a shot to the head. 

It's gonna come down to Crocodile and Sandman, and both have a weakness to water.


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## Random Nobody (Mar 12, 2009)

Why do people keep putting Gaara in fights like these?  He loses horribly.


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## Abigail (Mar 12, 2009)

Random Nobody said:


> Why do people keep putting Gaara in fights like these?  He loses horribly.



For the traditional Naruto rape.


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## Fuujin (Mar 12, 2009)

What's stopping Gaara from manipulating Sandman and Croc in order to scatter them all over the land as soon as they turn to sand?


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## Narcissus (Mar 12, 2009)

Fuujin said:


> What's stopping Gaara from manipulating Sandman and Croc in order to scatter them all over the land as soon as they turn to sand?



Have you seriously never read the many many many debates on Croc vs Gaara before?  The argument is that Gaara has never been shown to control sentient sand before, which is what Crocodile and Sandman are.


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## Fuujin (Mar 12, 2009)

Narcissus said:


> Have you seriously never read the many many many debates on Croc vs Gaara before?  The argument is that Gaara has never been shown to control sentient sand before, which is what Crocodile and Sandman are.


So what if it's sentient or not? All that really changes is the forces it exerts on itself or in other words, forces that oppose Gaara's will. If he can make sand defy gravity, he can make it defy that much movement force. If he can make it shield him from multiple attacks by foes like Kimimaro and even explosions on the level of city destroying blasts I'm pretty sure he can overpower whatever force is causing the sand to move. Whether that be gravity, or a consciousness.


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## Narcissus (Mar 12, 2009)

Fuujin said:


> So what if it's sentient or not? All that really changes is the forces it exerts on itself or in other words, forces that oppose Gaara's will. If he can make sand defy gravity, he can make it defy that much movement force. If he can make it shield him from multiple attacks by foes like Kimimaro and even explosions on the level of city destroying blasts I'm pretty sure he can overpower whatever force is causing the sand to move. Whether that be gravity, or a consciousness.



Oh yes, gravity, by far the weakest of the fundamental forces.  Great job that is there.

Unless there is proof of him being able to override the conscience control of someone else, then you are wrong.  For example, this very problem occured in a thread on Storm vs Enel, where people said she couldn't control sentient elements.  I provided proof that she could and ended that thread.

Now if you want to end this thread, prove that Gaara can do what you say he can.


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## Fuujin (Mar 12, 2009)

Dio Brando said:


> lol
> 
> GAARAS SAND CAN CONTROL CONSCIOUSNESS CAUSE IM PRETTY SURE OF IT


You're right. Stupid of me to say so. I'm only like 99% sure :S


Narcissus said:


> Oh yes, gravity, by far the weakest of the fundamental forces.  Great job that is there.


Blocking explosions is more impressive.


> Unless there is proof of him being able to override the conscience control of someone else, then you are wrong.  For example, this very problem occured in a thread on Storm vs Enel, where people said she couldn't control sentient elements.  I provided proof that she could and ended that thread.


To control something being manipulated by a sentient being you just have to apply more force to it and override that control. Enough force to tank nuke sized explosions is enough force period...for this matchup anyway.


> Now if you want to end this thread, prove that Gaara can do what you say he can.


Fine.

this
Gaara relinquishes his conscious control of the sand to Shukaku, a sentient being.

Before this he had the overriding control of the sand stopping Shukaku from going wild and killing whoever he wanted with it. Gaara's control of sand>Shukaku's.

/thread

...unless someone wants to prove to me that Croc or Sandman have better control of sand than the spirit of the sand priest and all round sand bijuu himself...an essentially impossible task. So I say again.

/thread


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## Dio Brando (Mar 12, 2009)

Except the Shukaku was bound to Gaara´s soul and all that jazz. So it´s not like he has some magical power to outcontrol people made of sand who control it just as well if not better than he does.


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## Shadow Replication 1480 (Mar 12, 2009)

Exactly how is it the end of the thread when Gaara can't kill either of them? Gaara fails just like he always does whenever people put him up against Croc.

Croc shanks Gaara in the face for being made of fail and as for who wins between him and Sandman, I really have no clue.


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## Fuujin (Mar 12, 2009)

Dio Brando said:


> Except the Shukaku was bound to Gaara´s soul and all that jazz. So it´s not like he has some magical power to outcontrol people made of sand who control it just as well if not better than he does.


I've proven his consciousness has enough control to subdue Shukaku whilst he's awake. Now you need to magically prove that Croc is superior in sand control to Shukaku by comparing them and maybe setting up a contest where they can try and outclass eachother. Oooor we could just go with the safe option and assume that they are in the same class and Gaara is in another level. Afterall, what sandmasters in OP has Croc ever beaten? Oh wait, there aren't any others.


Shadow Replication 1480 said:


> Exactly how is it the end of the thread when Gaara can't kill either of them? Gaara fails just like he always does whenever people put him up against Croc.
> 
> Croc shanks Gaara in the face for being made of fail and as for who wins between him and Sandman, I really have no clue.


1. Gaara scattering him into the soil so he can't reform counts as a knockout
2. Croc wins because ignorance is a malevolent cancer in the OBD
and
3. GAARA IS MADE OF TEH WIN SHUUUSH ABOUT MY FAVORITE CHARACTAR!!


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## EvilMoogle (Mar 12, 2009)

Croc vs. Sandman generally is a stalemate, neither have a way to really do anything to the other.

Both would be Gaara eventually IMO, though I think this might take a while.


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## Dio Brando (Mar 12, 2009)

Fuujin said:


> I've proven his consciousness has enough control to subdue Shukaku whilst he#s awake. Now you need to magically prove that Croc is superior in sand control to Shukaku by comparing them and maybe setting up a contest where they can try and outclass eachother. Oooor we could just go with the safe option and assume that they are in the same class and Gaara is in another level. Afterall, what sandmasters in OP has Croc ever beaten? Oh wait, there aren't any others.
> 
> 1. Gaara scattering him into the soil so he can't reform counts as a knockout
> 2. Croc wins because ignorance is a malevolent cancer in the OBD
> ...



Because they share a body/soul etc. Not because of his control over sand. It´s not a difficult concept to grasp. 

1. Scattering into soil would do nothing 
2. Its mostly a stalemate but Croc does have a huge physical and intellectual advantage over the other two. And poison.
3. You admit to being bias.


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## Onomatopoeia (Mar 12, 2009)

It's more difficult to control something than it is to subdue it. ^^


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## Fuujin (Mar 12, 2009)

Dio Brando said:


> Because they share a body/soul etc. Not because of his control over sand. It?s not a difficult concept to grasp.


It's not a difficult concept no...it just doesn't do as many things for your argument as you would hope. They only share a body. The souls conflict for control over it, similarly to Naruto and Kyuubi. However.

In terms of controlling sand...which is what we're discussing:
They both have exhibited the ability to control it with their chakra
Gaara is in control when awake. Not because he is keeping Shukaku asleep (as confirmed by him talking to Shukaku in the sand egg thing), but because he exhibits superior control over the sand. Seriously, can you really say Croc or Sandman have even a single feat of pure sand control on the scale of lifting the desert to protect from a giant explosion. That feat was immense and shows the force of his will on sand. So unless they can do greater, they're gonna have a reaaal hard time keeping control of their bodies.


> 1. Scattering into soil would do nothing


It would effectively nullify all movement, causing paralysis. Gaara has shown the ability to sink things hundreds of metres into the sand and hold them there under massive pressure.


> 2. Its mostly a stalemate but Croc does have a huge physical and intellectual advantage over the other two. And poison.


Granted Gaara was never much of a H2H fighter or a rocket scientist...but when he's fighting people who's bodies he can control...he doesn't need to be. This is almost as bad as a Wolverine vs Magneto matchup and it's very very very stupid to say Wolverine wins because Magneto can't actually kill him and all it takes is a stab to end Magneto. Well guess what, the stab isn't happening.


> 3. You admit to being bias.


I admit to poking fun in this thread.


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## Tyler (Mar 12, 2009)

Damn, I would say Gaara then again. Were would he get water from? His piss :/


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## Onomatopoeia (Mar 12, 2009)

I rather compare it to Magneto vs Collosus.


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## Fuujin (Mar 12, 2009)

Onomatopoeia said:


> I rather compare it to Magneto vs Collosus.


Whatever dude. The point is that no matter how much you like a character or verse it doesn't immediately make them stronger despite how much you want them to be. A great example is Blackbeard. So much potential with his power and it is a greater power than Ace's...but due to crappy and limited control of his own damn ability Ace is able to draw with him.

Gaara is just way more skilled with sand than Croc and outclasses his sand feats massively.

Right, I've made my points. Hopefully everyone will see sense but I'm not holding my breath. Night OBD.


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## Dio Brando (Mar 12, 2009)

Fuujin said:


> It's not a difficult concept no...it just doesn't do as many things for your argument as you would hope. They only share a body. The souls conflict for control over it, similarly to Naruto and Kyuubi. However.
> 
> In terms of controlling sand...which is what we're discussing:
> They both have exhibited the ability to control it with their chakra
> ...


Except you don't see Gaara tossing Shukaku around like a puppet like you seem to imagine he would do to the others in your head.

He can't control them because they are sentient. He can control Shukaku because he can choose to use something bound to himself as his power. (instead of the other way round) Thats the whole point of the tailed beasts and you don't seem to understand that. It's about willpower over your inner demon not I control sand better so I win. 

It's more like Magneto-lite vs Magneto vs Magneto 2.0


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## Dio Brando (Mar 12, 2009)

Fuujin said:


> Whatever dude. The point is that no matter how much you like a character or verse it doesn't immediately make them stronger despite how much you want them to be. A great example is Blackbeard. So much potential with his power and it is a greater power than Ace's...but due to crappy and limited control of his own damn ability Ace is able to draw with him.
> 
> Gaara is just way more skilled with sand than Croc and outclasses his sand feats massively.
> 
> Right, I've made my points. Hopefully everyone will see sense but I'm not holding my breath. Night OBD.



Blackbeard won.


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## Abigail (Mar 12, 2009)

Fuujin said:


> Whatever dude. The point is that no matter how much you like a character or verse it doesn't immediately make them stronger despite how much you want them to be. *A great example is Blackbeard. So much potential with his power and it is a greater power than Ace's...but due to crappy and limited control of his own damn ability Ace is able to draw with him.*


You don't read One Piece do you.


> Gaara is just way more skilled with sand than Croc and outclasses his sand feats massively.


You want to prove this.


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## Onomatopoeia (Mar 12, 2009)

Clearly my comparison was not understood.

Magneto vs Colossus. Colossus wins because, unlike Mags, Colossus is still a kickass monster of a fighter without his powers.

Magneto lorded his powers of magnetism over everyone's favorite metalbound Ruskie and C-diddy is all "Bitch, I don't need my powers to kick your ass" and turns into his normal form and tears Mags a new one.


Similarly, even in the extremely unlikely event that Gaara somehow managed to control Crocodile, Croc would rape Gaara faster than you can say "Naruto can defeat the Living Tribunal!".



> The point is that no matter how much you like a character or verse it doesn't immediately make them stronger despite how much you want them to be.



I extend the same advice to you, as well as laugh uproariously that you of all people are saying it. 

If I may make a comparison:

Bill Clinton sez: Do not have an affair, certainly don't have one while you are the President of the United States.


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## Abigail (Mar 12, 2009)

True there is the massive speed and strength difference as well.


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## Seyta (Mar 12, 2009)

As stated above...multiple times... Gaara loses.

He gets the moisture sucked out of him and dies...

Whatever crap was posted about him manipulating the sand that composes Sandman and Croc, play Devil's Advocate and we have Croc and Sandman manipulating Gaara's sand.
Game Over.

Between Sandman and Croc... Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but they can both turn into sand... that being said, it would be like a logia battle in which both are intangible, which would end in a draw.


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## Fenton (Mar 13, 2009)

Gaara's control over sand has been shown to have a time limit (or chakra limit) Croc and Sandman have no such limitations. Also, if all these people can control the others sand he's the most likely to get physicaly injured.

Not to mention, Gaara doesn't use water jutsu and wouldn't wearing sand just make it easier for croc to dry him? How could Gaara's sand jutsu stop that?


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## Zoidberg (Mar 13, 2009)

Gaara winning is out of the question, he has no method of harming either Croc or Sandman. Scattering is kinda pointless since both can reform just as easily.

I have no idea of Sandman's powers in the comics. If this was movie Sandman he and Croc would stalemate, since Croc's dehydration is worthless against living sand as well.


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Mar 13, 2009)

Crocodile grinds Sandman into subsand. True story.


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## Endless Mike (Mar 13, 2009)

Since this is no CIS, Sandman would probably be able to figure out Croc is weak to water and get him wet, by opening a fire hydrant or something


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## Fuujin (Mar 13, 2009)

Ranmyaku Arashi said:


> You don't read One Piece do you.


Eww, God no. Why would you even assume I did? I just look at the highlights to inform my opinion more without resorting to actually reading the damn thing.


> You want to prove this.


Gaara has lifted more sand at once than Croc. Lifting a desert>sandstorm. Therefore Gaara's control is superior.


Onomatopoeia said:


> Clearly my comparison was not understood.
> 
> Magneto vs Colossus. Colossus wins because, unlike Mags, Colossus is still a kickass monster of a fighter without his powers.
> 
> Magneto lorded his powers of magnetism over everyone's favorite metalbound Ruskie and C-diddy is all "Bitch, I don't need my powers to kick your ass" and turns into his normal form and tears Mags a new one.


Yeah I know what moment you're talking about. Thing is, Croc has a conditioned body that turns to sand when hit...so Gaara would use the opportunity to scatter and hold him. I call 10 second pindown after Gaara chokeslams him and that's the end of the match.


> Similarly, even in the extremely unlikely event that Gaara somehow managed to control Crocodile, Croc would rape Gaara faster than you can say "Naruto can defeat the Living Tribunal!".


OP speed is overrated. Naruto speed is underrated, as we have all found out recently.


Ranmyaku Arashi said:


> True there is the massive speed and strength difference as well.


Strength is irrelevant here since Gaara will not be fighting with his hands. He DOES however have more durability than most due to his sand armour. As well as supersonic sand shields to boot.



Rokudo Mukuro said:


> Gaara's control over sand has been shown to have a time limit (or chakra limit) Croc and Sandman have no such limitations. Also, if all these people can control the others sand he's the most likely to get physicaly injured


Hello Kitty no limits fallacy. How are you today? Infinite? Why that's grand!


> Not to mention, Gaara doesn't use water jutsu and wouldn't wearing sand just make it easier for croc to dry him? How could Gaara's sand jutsu stop that?


Croc can't dry people with his sand. He uses his hand for that...this is perhaps the most blatant and common misconception about him in the OBD.


battlerek said:


> Gaara winning is out of the question, he has no method of harming either Croc or Sandman. Scattering is kinda pointless since both can reform just as easily.


Not when they're held in place hundreds of metres below the ground.


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## Onomatopoeia (Mar 13, 2009)

> Yeah I know what moment you're talking about. Thing is, Croc has a conditioned body that turns to sand when hit...so Gaara would use the opportunity to scatter and hold him. I call 10 second pindown after Gaara chokeslams him and that's the end of the match.



Gaara gets speedbltized before he can form a coherent thought. I believe the term is "GG" which I assume means Good Game.



> OP speed is overrated. Naruto speed is underrated, as we have all found out recently.



Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but that doesn't change the fact that Crocodile>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Gaara.


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## Shadow Replication 1480 (Mar 13, 2009)

Fuujin said:


> Yeah I know what moment you're talking about. Thing is, Croc has a conditioned body that turns to sand when hit...so Gaara would use the opportunity to scatter and hold him. I call 10 second pindown after Gaara chokeslams him and that's the end of the match.


LAWLno. This isn't amateur wrestling. Holding someone down when they can still fight back and are completely conscious isn't a win in the OBD. He can try and hold Sandman and Croc down for as long as he wants, but when his chakra runs out(and this is massively assuming Croc doesn't kill him right off the bat), Sandman and Croc get to play a fun game of "Who can rape this bitch worse before he dies?" with Gaara in the role of the "bitch."


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## Endless Mike (Mar 13, 2009)

Having unlimited stamina isn't a no - limits fallacy, since that's not unlimited ability. A no-limits fallacy would be saying Gaara can control any sand no matter what type it is or what else is controlling it.


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## Fuujin (Mar 13, 2009)

Shadow Replication 1480 said:


> LAWLno. This isn't amateur wrestling. Holding someone down when they can still fight back and are completely conscious isn't a win in the OBD. He can try and hold Sandman and Croc down for as long as he wants, but when his chakra runs out(and this is massively assuming Croc doesn't kill him right off the bat), Sandman and Croc get to play a fun game of "Who can rape this bitch worse before he dies?" with Gaara in the role of the "bitch."


If he imprisons them the the soil it would take them years to get out, massively assuming they ever do.

That IS counted as a win isn't it? Besides. When it starts to rain and Croc's body is in millions of pieces in the ground, he would become tangible and die. As for sandman...that guy just can't be killed. But on his own, Gaara is much faster and would never get hit.


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## Abigail (Mar 13, 2009)

Fuujin said:


> If he imprisons them the the soil it would take them years to get out, massively assuming they ever do.
> 
> That IS counted as a win isn't it? Besides. When it starts to rain and Croc's body is in millions of pieces in the ground, he would become tangible and die. As for sandman...that guy just can't be killed. *But on his own, Gaara is much faster and would never get hit.*


Prove this.


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## Endless Mike (Mar 13, 2009)

Sandman can fire sand as fast as bullets, and with the same effect


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## Shadow Replication 1480 (Mar 13, 2009)

Fuujin said:


> If he imprisons them the the soil it would take them years to get out, massively assuming they ever do.


Insanely huge "if" there. Croc and Sandman can easily kill him before he even thinks of trying to imprison them. And it's cute how you decided to swipe that phrase I used in my post. You still fail, but it was a cute attempt, nonetheless.



> That IS counted as a win isn't it?


Not when they're still conscious and alive. 



> Besides. When it starts to rain and Croc's body is in millions of pieces in the ground, he would become tangible and die. As for sandman...that guy just can't be killed. But on his own, Gaara is much faster and would never get hit.


LAWL! Relying on an outside factor like rain when the OP makes no mention of it with the setting of the fight = massive FAIL. Hell, the OP said "any wasteland," so I could just easily say that the setting is in Alabasta after the Dance-Dance powder stopped the rain from failing.


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## Endless Mike (Mar 13, 2009)

BTW Crocodile and Sandman can both reconstitute their bodies from any sand in the area


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## Shirō Kazami (Mar 13, 2009)

Gaara faster on his own? He stands still all the time.


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## HanautaSanchou (Mar 13, 2009)

Fuujin said:


> If he imprisons them the the soil it would take them years to get out, massively assuming they ever do.
> 
> That IS counted as a win isn't it? Besides. When it starts to rain and Croc's body is in millions of pieces in the ground, he would become tangible and die. As for sandman...that guy just can't be killed. But on his own, Gaara is much faster and would never get hit.



Croc's logia powers makes him regenerate out from sand. Assuming that their is soil in this waste land is a bad move. And also Gaara faster than Crocodile.  Gaara couldn't even catch up to Sasuke or Rock lee and had to be a wimp and hide behind his sand barriers. 

     Croc on the other hand can fight and is suprisingly fast when fighting Luffy. When Croc's Devil fruit powers were negated by Luffy he was fighting on par with him and catching up to him. Croc can take a physical beating while Gaara just loses it when he sees blood. 

Croc can just use the sand around Gaara and create a giant town busting sandstorm and then use Sand dagger on him. Then Croc would dehydrate him and watch him squirm.

Sandman just rapes Gaara. I need no explanation that Supervillains are generally stronger than Anime characters.


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## Teach (Mar 14, 2009)

I don't know who wins but Gaara gets raped.


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## chulance (Mar 14, 2009)

Sadnman can beat Crocodile I' rembered why. Both have weaknesses to water but Sandman is able to fight as mudman while he is weaker Crocodile can't use his abilties so mudman could beat a powerless pirate.  Also Sandman can make his body  very durable.


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## Gigantor (Mar 15, 2009)

Crocodile is probably more powerful than Spiderman while solid... So, Mudman is still screwed


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## Lance Vance (Mar 15, 2009)

chulance said:


> Sadnman can beat Crocodile I' rembered why. Both have weaknesses to water but Sandman is able to fight as mudman while he is weaker Crocodile can't use his abilties so mudman could beat a powerless pirate.  Also Sandman can make his body  very durable.



Crocodile can't turn into sand when coated in water, it doesn't hinder his abilities completely.


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## chulance (Mar 15, 2009)

Well Sandman can lift up to 85 tons his powers can be used in multiple abilties he can form sand hammers, blades ect. He can become extremly durable and become a giant made of sand.  He can stay in sand form for infinite amounts of time  while if Crocodile can't turn into sand Sandman can use  blast him with sand blades to kill him.


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## Louis-954 (Mar 15, 2009)

> If he imprisons them the the soil it would take them years to get out, massively assuming they ever do.
> 
> That IS counted as a win isn't it? Besides. When it starts to rain and Croc's body is in millions of pieces in the ground, he would become tangible and die. As for sandman...that guy just can't be killed. But on his own, Gaara is much faster and would never get hit.


The farthest Gaara has ever sank someone is 200 meters and even weakass(by Crocodiles and Sandmans standards) Kimimaro was able to break out of it. Being the very essence of sand themselves and stronger than Kimimaro they would have little trouble getting out themselves.

Also Crocodile does NOT need his hand to dry people out....
A crack this small 
A crack this small 
A crack this small 
He didnt physically touch any of them, his sand did that.

And again here.
Saint Young Men
Saint Young Men

He doesnt need to grab or physically touch to dry people, he can AOE with his sand as ive shown.

and assuming you are right and Gaara can over power the control of their own sand what exactly is he supposed to do to hurt them? They would just enjoy the free ride and and casually kill him off when the noob runs out of chakra. Then the real fight between the two of them could get underway.


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## Fuujin (Mar 15, 2009)

Louis-954 said:


> The farthest Gaara has ever sank someone is 200 meters and even weakass(by Crocodiles and Sandmans standards) Kimimaro was able to break out of it. Being the very essence of sand themselves and stronger than Kimimaro they would have little trouble getting out themselves.
> 
> Also Crocodile does NOT need his hand to dry people out....
> Link removed
> ...


Link removed
See the hand touching the guy's face in the bottom right? Funny how the only one of them who actually got dried rather than buried was the same guy:
Link removed

Also funny how the thing drying Luffy's arm came from Croc's hand...in essence, an extension of his arm...


Also Kimimaro is not weak. You have no scans of anything limiting his strength. Also, he didn't even use strength to break out of the 200m sand pit. He used his final dance and grew giant spikes so he could appear from them above ground.


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## Banhammer (Mar 15, 2009)

none of them have ways to beat sandman or croc. Equalize speed and it would take a huge body of water to take down either croc or thesandman wich you don't have, so I guess these two might stalemate.


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## Fuujin (Mar 15, 2009)

I'm not too familiar with OP. What is the maximum length of time Croc has ever stayed in sand form?

EDIT: Well in that case, I'm going to assume it's short, like a couple of minutes or so. To avoid no limits fallacy, that is his maximum and when this time limit runs out and he is still being manipulated into a sandstorm by Gaara he loses the ability to pull himself back together again and dies.

GG


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## Onomatopoeia (Mar 15, 2009)

Colossus vs Magneto. Thus,  Croc > Gaara. Thank you and good night.


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## Louis-954 (Mar 15, 2009)

> Also funny how the thing drying Luffy's arm came from Croc's hand...in essence, an extension of his arm...


You stated Crocodile needs his hand to dry people out, the scan with Luffy CLEARLY shows that the AOE(Area of Effect) of his sand can produce the same result.



> I'm not too familiar with OP. What is the maximum length of time Croc has ever stayed in sand form?
> 
> EDIT: Well in that case, I'm going to assume it's short, like a couple of minutes or so. To avoid no limits fallacy, that is his maximum and when this time limit runs out and he is still being manipulated into a sandstorm by Gaara he loses the ability to pull himself back together again and dies.


You dont know a thing about Logias, the element IS their body. The ONLY things that can cancel it out are...

1. Their natural weakness, which in crocs case is water and he cant transform.

2. Kairoseki.

3. Being completely submerged in water.

4. Haki(speculation but Rayleigh vs. Ki Zaru seems to support it).

Gaara has acess to none of these abilities/items therefore he cannot hurt Crocodile. Your "time limit" is you grasping at straws just to make Gaara win. Crocodile crossed from Rainbase to Alubarna in sand form which takes longer than a few minutes. IF(and thats a big if) Gaara can control him Crocodile just enjoys his free ride on Gaaras sand until the idiot runs himself out of chakra while Crocodile lols at his feeble and pathetic attempts to kill him.


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## Rice Ball (Mar 15, 2009)

Gaara is the only one who can fly.


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## Yagami1211 (Mar 15, 2009)

The day Croc will do something as impressive as Gaara when he fought Deidara, I'll concede he's good at controlling it. 

Stalemate, Croc and Sandman fights, Gaara does Suna Bunshin and goes having fun with his friends.


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## Fuujin (Mar 15, 2009)

Louis-954 said:


> You stated Crocodile needs his hand to dry people out, the scan with Luffy CLEARLY shows that the AOE(Area of Effect) of his sand can produce the same result.


I could easily argue that in the scan you posted, Croc swiped through Luffy's arm with his hand causing a trail of sand behind it.

Thus, he still touched him regardless of the appearance of sand behind his swipe



> You dont know a thing about Logias, the element IS their body. The ONLY things that can cancel it out are...
> 
> 1. Their natural weakness, which in crocs case is water and he cant transform.
> 
> ...


If the element was his body he would never have to come out of sand form, so much for that theory. A much more plausible one is that he has a limit to the time he can spend in sand mode, and if that limit runs out whilst he's in sand mode he can't reform. Assuming he can stay as sand indefinitely is a no limits fallacy and unlike the sandman's case, it is completely unsupported.

Gaara breaks him up into millions of pieces and uses him as his own sand shield from then onwards. Or just contains him in his gourd and keeps him there.


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## Darth (Mar 15, 2009)

If Gaara transforms to full Shukaku it's over.

If not, Croc wins.


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## Louis-954 (Mar 15, 2009)

> I could easily argue that in the scan you posted, Croc swiped through Luffy's arm _*with his hand*_ causing a trail of sand behind it.
> 
> Thus, he still touched him regardless of the appearance of sand behind his swipe


If this were the case Crocodiles hand wouldnt be in his human form. It was an AOE attack and the sand dried Luffys arm out, its clear as day.



> If the element was his body he would never have to come out of sand form, so much for that theory. A much more plausible one is that he has a limit to the time he can spend in sand mode, and if that limit runs out whilst he's in sand mode he can't reform. Assuming he can stay as sand indefinitely is a no limits fallacy and unlike the sandman's case, it is completely unsupported.


You seem to of completely ignored the fact that he traveled from Rainbase to Alubarna in Sand form. upon arriving its not like he was out of breath or exhausted or anything. There was no adverse effect or hint of an adverse effect, your "few minutes" theory is out the window. As ive stated before, Gaara would run dry on Chakra even if he could control Crocodiles sand. Seriosuly, whats he going to do that cant hurt him?



> Gaara breaks him up into millions of pieces and uses him as his own sand shield from then onwards.


Again, what exactly does this do to Crocodile to hurt him? Absolutely nothing. Gaara runs out of chakra struggling to keep croc under control and when hes out of it Crocodile can simply dry him out, sink him, impale him, poison him....so many ways for croc to deal with him its not even funny.



> Or just contains him in his gourd and keeps him there.


The only sand Gaara can contain in his gourd is his own, to put  and KEEP Crocodile in there would require a concious effort that he wouldnt be able to keep up. Once again he would run out of Chakra. 

I think you might also like to know that Logias can breathe in space and/or dont need to breathe. Crocodile can stay in his element for as long as he likes, nothing has been shown to even hint at suggesting he cant.



> If Gaara transforms to full Shukaku it's over.
> 
> If not, Croc wins.


What is Shukaku supposed to do to Crocodile or Sandman.

Fuujin you also seem quite oblivious to the fact that Gaara has 2 opponents here. Assuming Gaara tries to control both at the same time that would be extra strain and chakra wasted pathetically trying to kill those which he has no method to kill. Not to mention fighting one while trying to make sure another doesnt escape would prve quite troublesome for him as well dont you think? Gaara isnt winning this, it comes down to Croc and Sandman. Gaara cant do anything to harm them.


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## Fuujin (Mar 15, 2009)

Louis-954 said:


> If this were the case Crocodiles hand wouldnt be in his human form. It was an AOE attack and the sand dried Luffys arm out, its clear as day.


Reformed after it went past his arm. Simple explanation.


> You seem to of completely ignored the fact that he traveled from Rainbase to Alubarna in Sand form. upon arriving its not like he was out of breath or exhausted or anything. There was no adverse effect or hint of an adverse effect, your "few minutes" theory is out the window. As ive stated before, Gaara would run dry on Chakra even if he could control Crocodiles sand. Seriosuly, whats he going to do that cant hurt him?


You have no timeframe for the journey.


> Again, what exactly does this do to Crocodile to hurt him? Absolutely nothing. Gaara runs out of chakra struggling to keep croc under control and when hes out of it Crocodile can simply dry him out, sink him, impale him, poison him....so many ways for croc to deal with him its not even funny.


Gaara's sand can shield him from Croc's attacks, it has shown plenty of resistance. If that fails he could literally fly out of the way and up out of harm's way.


> The only sand Gaara can contain in his gourd is his own, to put  and KEEP Crocodile in there would require a concious effort that he wouldnt be able to keep up. Once again he would run out of Chakra.


Not before Croc dies. He has shown the capacity to keep his gourd (which is made of sand) in its proper shape indefinitely.


> I think you might also like to know that Logias can breathe in space and/or dont need to breathe. Crocodile can stay in his element for as long as he likes, nothing has been shown to even hint at suggesting he cant.


Again with the no limits. Do you seriously want me to argue that chidori can cut through anything because it has never been shown to have trouble cutting through anything?


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## Louis-954 (Mar 15, 2009)

> Reformed after it went past his arm. Simple explanation.


I dont recall any Logia reforming that fast. Prove it with a scan.



> You have no timeframe for the journey.


If you're trying to say that Crocodile blitzed his way to Alubarna in a mere few minutes then that only helps my arguement more. Gaara is fucked, he gets speed blitzed, if Croc is fast enough to make it from Rainbase to Alubarna in the mere "few minutes" I dont really see how Gaara could defend against such speed.



> Gaara's sand can shield him from Croc's attacks, it has shown plenty of resistance. If that fails he could literally fly out of the way and up out of harm's way.


Crocodiles attacks are far more destructive than anything Kimimaro, Sasuke, or Deidara(spare C3) have shown in there fights against Gaara. if they can penetrate it, Crocodile can, the dude cut the desert for as  far as the eye could see and you coulnt even see the bottom of the cut he made. dare I say thats stronger than Deidaras C1 and Sasukes Chidori, they havent shown anything close to that kind of destructive force with those attacks.



> Not before Croc dies. He has shown the capacity to keep his gourd (which is made of sand) in its proper shape indefinitely.


Prove he can store sand in it besides his own, it was stated that that gourd and the sand inside of it is his own personal sand. He has never shown able to hold foreign sand or even hinted at the ability to hold foreign sand. I mean if he can then why doesnt he keep anymore in there? Scans please.



> Again with the no limits. Do you seriously want me to argue that chidori can cut through anything because it has never been shown to have trouble cutting through anything?


Its not a no limits fallacy. Crocodile has shown able to stay in sand form for more than a "few minutes", his trip to Alubarna proves that. If you really must have some sort of times table then...he and Luffy fought late afternoon/early evening, Crocodile wasnt seen in Alubarna till the next day, in fact he reformed right next to Robin I believe. Thats at the very least 12-15 hours, and since Logias have shown to not have to breath im sure Crocodile would have absolutely no problems waiting for Gaara to run out of Chakra before he casually kills him. That or Sandman would get it done first lmao. Containing Croc or Sandman while fighting the other would drain Gaara fast. Crocodile woudlnt need to wait very long. Not that I think Gaara could control him anyway, but honestly it makes no difference for the reasons ive shown.

I have to log for about an hour Fuujin, I look forward to your reply. Take care!


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## Narcissus (Mar 15, 2009)

Fuujin, please explain to me how Gaara can hurt either of these two, even if he could control them (which I haven't been convinced he can).


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## Fuujin (Mar 15, 2009)

Louis-954 said:


> I dont recall any Logia reforming that fast. Prove it with a scan.


Again, no time frame for the reformation shown. He could well have held Luffy in that position for minutes for all we know. What we do know is that there is plenty of room for reasonable doubt that he can dry without any physical contact at all. ie. I'm saying he can't use his sandstorm to dry people because he has never been shown to.


> Crocodiles attacks are far more destructive than anything Kimimaro, Sasuke, or Deidara(spare C3) have shown in there fights against Gaara. if they can penetrate it, Crocodile can, the dude cut the desert for as  far as the eye could see and you coulnt even see the bottom of the cut he made. dare I say thats stronger than Deidaras C1 and Sasukes Chidori, they havent shown anything close to that kind of destructive force with those attacks.


That's not a large destructive force....that's massive scale yes, but it doesn't take that much force to cut through sand. Hell, I could do it with my pinky. It's unlikely that stuff could ever cut through Gaara's shield since it has been shown to casually tank and shrug off explosions to an even nuke sized scale. Keep in mind that Kimimaro overpowering it was from part 1. Kage Gaara is the new and improved version with all new flight and air combat capabilities.


> Prove he can store sand in it besides his own, it was stated that that gourd and the sand inside of it is his own personal sand. He has never shown able to hold foreign sand or even hinted at the ability to hold foreign sand. I mean if he can then why doesnt he keep anymore in there? Scans please.


He has been shown to be able to manipulate foreign sand...and you are saying that he can't simply put that sand in a container and keep it there?  That's like saying Naruto ninja can't keep any foreign kunai in their equipment packs....


> Its not a no limits fallacy. Crocodile has shown able to stay in sand form for more than a "few minutes", his trip to Alubarna proves that. If you really must have some sort of times table then...he and Luffy fought late afternoon/early evening, Crocodile wasnt seen in Alubarna till the next day, in fact he reformed right next to Robin I believe. Thats at the very least 12-15 hours, and since Logias have shown to not have to breath im sure Crocodile would have absolutely no problems waiting for Gaara to run out of Chakra before he casually kills him. That or Sandman would get it done first lmao. Containing Croc or Sandman while fighting the other would drain Gaara fast. Crocodile woudlnt need to wait very long. Not that I think Gaara could control him anyway, but honestly it makes no difference for the reasons ive shown.


Good thing Gaara can just lock him up in his gourd and keep him there for that time whilst flying out of Sandman's range. Between Gaara and Sandman lies the true draw. I don't see how Sandman can get past his shield and I don't see how Gaara can ever kill him or knock him out. Croc has the handy limitation of time and water, whilst Sandman has none that I know of.


> I have to log for about an hour Fuujin, I look forward to your reply. Take care!


That's cool man.


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## Quelsatron (Mar 15, 2009)

Croc could mummify Gaara with Ground death through the sand shield and armor.


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## Fuujin (Mar 15, 2009)

Narcissus said:


> Fuujin, please explain to me how Gaara can hurt either of these two, even if he could control them (which I haven't been convinced he can).


He can store Croc in his gourd until Croc's time limit runs out and he dies, becoming plain sand.

As for sandman....lol I dunno

But there is no way for sandman to beat Gaara after Croc has been taken care of. He's simply way too slow and Gaara's automatic shield is too fast.


Quelsatron said:


> Croc could mummify Gaara with Ground death through the sand shield and armor.


How can he dry him through sand? Gaara can simply cocoon himself like he did against Deidara and fly up out of the way.


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## Onomatopoeia (Mar 15, 2009)

Explain why Gaara would try such a tactic even in the completely nonexistent chances it would work.


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## Fuujin (Mar 15, 2009)

Onomatopoeia said:


> Explain why Gaara would try such a tactic even in the completely nonexistent chances it would work.


Because he is not a complete and utter moron? And has shown adaptability when facing foes like Kimimaro and even airborne foes like Deidara? If he sees a guy made of sand, you betcha he's going to take advantage of it.


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## Onomatopoeia (Mar 15, 2009)

Gaara: Oh look, this guy is made of sand! For no reason I'm going to assume that putting him in my gourd, which is attached to my back, will kill him instantly and not give him the chance the bust out and decapitate me from behind. This is what we call thinking smarter. Logic saves the day again!


Try again, Skippy. 

Also, I'm not entirely clear on why he wasn't speedblitzed .003 seconds into the fight.


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## Fuujin (Mar 15, 2009)

Onomatopoeia said:


> Gaara: Oh look, this guy is made of sand! For no reason I'm going to assume that putting him in my gourd, which is attached to my back, will kill him instantly and not give him the chance the bust out and decapitate me from behind. This is what we call thinking smarter. Logic saves the day again!


We learn by doing. He sees the guy turn parts of his body into sand. Hey! Someone who turns into something I can control! This has never happened before, let's try it out. He breaks Croc into millions of pieces and lets him fall. Oh wait, he's reforming. Whatever shall I do? I know! I'll lock him up so I can think of a solution whilst he's in my gourd!

Also, for Croc to break out that would require him to show a massive strength feat when he is nothing but a pile of sand in a compressed area. I'm pretty sure he doesn't have any of that strength when his entire body is sand.


> Also, I'm not entirely clear on why he wasn't speedblitzed .003 seconds into the fight.


Speedfeats for Croc that put him at above mach 2?

Didn't think so.


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## Abigail (Mar 15, 2009)

Fuujin said:


> We learn by doing. He sees the guy turn parts of his body into sand. Hey! Someone who turns into something I can control! This has never happened before, let's try it out. He breaks Croc into millions of pieces and lets him fall. Oh wait, he's reforming. Whatever shall I do? I know! I'll lock him up so I can think of a solution whilst he's in my gourd!


 And then gets shanked in the back by Croc. Seriously tring to stop Croc with sand is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.


> Speedfeats for Croc that put him at above mach 2?
> 
> Didn't think so.


Fighting on par with Luffy.


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## Fuujin (Mar 15, 2009)

Ranmyaku Arashi said:


> And then gets shanked in the back by Croc. Seriously tring to stop Croc with sand is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.


He can't reform if he's squashed in a chamber and he can't use his strength if he's a pile of sand. How is that not easy for you to understand?


> Fighting on par with Luffy.


Last I checked Luffy was landing the majority of the blows once he figured out how to actually hit Crocodile (with blood or water). The most Croc pulled off later was catching him a little with his hook which indicates superior speed on Luffy's part. That could put Croc as low as half of Luffy's speed. Also, how is Luffy mach 2 at that point in time?


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## Abigail (Mar 15, 2009)

First let me ask you why he needs to be Mach 2. Gaara isn't even Mach 1.

To answer your question Luffy was reacting to supersonic cannonballs back in East Blue.


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## Endless Mike (Mar 16, 2009)

This is retarded. Gaara can't hurt any of them, and they can control themselves better than he can control them,  he has never controlled sand with a will that can control itself. I might as well just say that they control his sand and use it to kill him. Not to mention both Croc and Sandman have unlimited stamina, while Gaara can only keep it up for a few minutes at most. Fuujin, just give up already. Gaara is not even sound speed and Sandman can attack as fast as a bullet, Croc can attack even faster.


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Mar 16, 2009)

Since when did Croc develop unlimited stamina ?
Crocs are faster then then 'bullets' since when ?
generic decent moderns bullets are like, I think, 1200-1500m/s not accounting for slow-down after/blah. When did croc show mach 4+ speed.


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## Endless Mike (Mar 16, 2009)

Redux-shika boo said:


> Since when did Croc develop unlimited stamina ?



If he's not physically hit like Luffy did



> Crocs are faster then then 'bullets' since when ?



I said _Sandman_


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## SmashSk8er (Mar 16, 2009)

Endless Mike said:


> This is retarded. Gaara can't hurt any of them, and they can control themselves better than he can control them,  he has never controlled sand with a will that can control itself. I might as well just say that they control his sand and use it to kill him. Not to mention both Croc and Sandman have unlimited stamina, while Gaara can only keep it up for a few minutes at most. Fuujin, just give up already. Gaara is not even sound speed and Sandman can attack as fast as a bullet, Croc can attack even faster.



While Gaara will lose I doubt they can take control of his sand. As it's packed with his Chakra. BUT, the same thing goes with Gaara controling them. Fuujin would have to prove that he can control sand that has a mind of it's own.


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## Fenton (Mar 16, 2009)

Fuujin said:


> We learn by doing. He sees the guy turn parts of his body into sand. Hey! Someone who turns into something I can control! This has never happened before, let's try it out. He breaks Croc into millions of pieces and lets him fall. Oh wait, he's reforming. Whatever shall I do? I know! I'll lock him up so I can think of a solution whilst he's in my gourd!
> 
> Also, for Croc to break out that would require him to show a massive strength feat when he is nothing but a pile of sand in a compressed area. I'm pretty sure he doesn't have any of that strength when his entire body is sand.
> 
> ...




That's Gaara's plan? Trying to grab on to Croc with the sand connecting to his back and put him in his gourd?

Assuming he can even catch someone who can quicly reform and travel through the air as sand.


*Spoiler*: __ 













Or just use desert spada to cut through everything short of Gaara's sphere or shield he used on Kimimaro.

*Spoiler*: __ 









He'd just make turning him into a mummy easier, since that's the same sand attached to his sand armor.


Does Gaara even have any way to stop Croc from drying the moister from his body? Any way at all?


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## Quelsatron (Mar 16, 2009)

Fuujin said:


> How can he dry him through sand? Gaara can simply cocoon himself like he did against Deidara and fly up out of the way.



ground death turned the entire ground and all the stone statues into sand in a roughly 50 meter radius


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## Fenton (Mar 16, 2009)

I never saw that question, but Croc answers it himself.


*Spoiler*: __ 







already being sand just makes it easier and faster for him to dry Gaara.


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## Fuujin (Mar 16, 2009)

Ranmyaku Arashi said:


> First let me ask you why he needs to be Mach 2. Gaara isn't even Mach 1.


No, but his sand is so far beyond that it's ridiculous. Also keep in mind that Gaara was actively reacting to and blocking Deidara's explosions with hand gestures.



> To answer your question Luffy was reacting to supersonic cannonballs back in East Blue.


I'm sure he was. I'm also sure that the most he did was move slightly to the side. Reacting to and moving at are in no way shape or form the same thing. People can react to much faster things than themselves. The fact that he could see the line of fire is also very dubious. Makes me think he preemptively started to move.



Endless Mike said:


> This is retarded. Gaara can't hurt any of them, and they can control themselves better than he can control them,  he has never controlled sand with a will that can control itself.


Let's go on feats rather than your big boy talk shall we? When has Croc ever shown the capacity and control to lift an entire desert's worth of sand and actively move it like Gaara has? Ok, I'm glad we proved Gaara has superior control and would overpower Croc's. That was fun. Well it would have been anyway had I not proved pages ago that Gaara can override their control of their own bodies by brute sand force.

Seriously, it's like me trying to go up against Vader in a force choking contest. Gaara wins every time.



> I might as well just say that they control his sand and use it to kill him. Not to mention both Croc and Sandman have unlimited stamina, while Gaara can only keep it up for a few minutes at most. Fuujin, just give up already. Gaara is not even sound speed and Sandman can attack as fast as a bullet, Croc can attack even faster.


They do not have unlimited stamina, please stop with the BS. Sandman may have (I'm not familiar with non movie version of him) but Croc most definitely doesn't. He has never hinted that he does and he even commented on how a strong opponent like Luffy actually makes him exert himself by using his big moves.



Endless Mike said:


> If he's not physically hit like Luffy did


How much proof do you have? 0



SmashSk8er said:


> While Gaara will lose I doubt they can take control of his sand. As it's packed with his Chakra. BUT, the same thing goes with Gaara controling them. Fuujin would have to prove that he can control sand that has a mind of it's own.


Done and done.



Rokudo Mukuro said:


> That's Gaara's plan? Trying to grab on to Croc with the sand connecting to his back and put him in his gourd?


No, his plan is to control Croc's own body via its sand and put it into the gourd and seal it. Not very difficult. He has shown the capacity to drag sand back into that gourd multiple times.



> Or just use desert spada to cut through everything short of Gaara's sphere or shield he used on Kimimaro.
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...


Weak attack is weak. Desert spada's only redeeming quality is the size of the attack. Cutting through sand isn't very hard. Luffy's fist punched through it for god's sakes...that's RUBBER with a wide surface area punching through what is essentially compact sand. It really isn't strong enough to get through Gaara's defenses. Not if that sprinkling rain of metal needles couldn't.



> Does Gaara even have any way to stop Croc from drying the moister from his body? Any way at all?


Urm, maybe by not letting Croc touch him with his hand? Dur dur.

As for the ground death thing...maybe using his sand to fly up out of the way like he has done on so many occasions?



Quelsatron said:


> ground death turned the entire ground and all the stone statues into sand in a roughly 50 meter radius


Very impressive...but the real question is how does it hurt a moving target who can fly?


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## Lance Vance (Mar 16, 2009)

Endless Mike said:


> This is retarded. Gaara can't hurt any of them, and they can control themselves better than he can control them,  he has never controlled sand with a will that can control itself. I might as well just say that they control his sand and use it to kill him. Not to mention both Croc and Sandman have unlimited stamina, while Gaara can only keep it up for a few minutes at most. Fuujin, just give up already. Gaara is not even sound speed and Sandman can attack as fast as a bullet, Croc can attack even faster.



..Sandman and Crocodile don't have unlimited stamina... In fact stamina (among other things) proved to be Sandmans fall in the comic (he lost so much sand/energy he lost the ability to hold himself together)..

...Sandman can't attack as fast as a bullet, and even so Crocodile most certainly isn't capable of attacking faster.


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## Abigail (Mar 16, 2009)

Fuujin said:


> No, but his sand is so far beyond that it's ridiculous. Also keep in mind that Gaara was actively reacting to and blocking Deidara's explosions with hand gestures.


 Normal sand.


> Let's go on feats rather than your big boy talk shall we? When has Croc ever shown the capacity and control to lift an entire desert's worth of sand and actively move it like Gaara has?


Gaara controlled about 1 km worth of sand. That is nowhere near a desert. 





> Ok, I'm glad we proved Gaara has superior control and would overpower Croc's. That was fun. Well it would have been anyway had I not proved pages ago that Gaara can override their control of their own bodies by brute sand force.


The sand he controls just sits there. It has never resisted him. Thats a major factor.


> Seriously, it's like me trying to go up against Vader in a force choking contest. Gaara wins every time.


Crappy red herring.


> They do not have unlimited stamina, please stop with the BS. Sandman may have (I'm not familiar with non movie version of him) but Croc most definitely doesn't. He has never hinted that he does and he even commented on how a strong opponent like Luffy actually makes him exert himself by using his big moves.


Croc stayed in his Logia form for about 12 hours. Even though he wasn't showing any fatigue for this fight I will say that is his limit. 12 hours is WAY longer then Gaara could control him. That is if he could at all.


> No, his plan is to control Croc's own body via its sand and put it into the gourd and seal it. Not very difficult. He has shown the capacity to drag sand back into that gourd multiple times.


Sand that has never resisted him. Also as I have said he can hold his Logia form for at least 12 hours. No way in hell is Gaara's chakra lasting that long and when it runs out Gaara gets shanked in the back.


> Urm, maybe by not letting Croc touch him with his hand? Dur dur.


Easier said then done. Dur dur.


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## Fuujin (Mar 16, 2009)

Ranmyaku Arashi said:


> Gaara controlled about 1 km worth of sand. That is nowhere near a desert.


It's still a damn sight more impressive than anything Croc has ever done. Apart from the drying power, the stuff Croc does is child's play to Gaara.



> The sand he controls just sits there. It has never resisted him. Thats a major factor.


In a battle of forces, the superior and greater force wins. That was the whole point of the Darth Vader comparison. Gaara would overpower Croc so fast it would make him shit bricks...of sand.



> Croc stayed in his Logia form for about 12 hours. Even though he wasn't showing any fatigue for this fight I will say that is his limit. 12 hours is WAY longer then Gaara could control him. That is if he could at all.


Gaara has shown the ability to keep the gourd together and keep the sand inside it (which is probably a hefty weight considering how much he uses) indefinitely.



> Sand that has never resisted him. Also as I have said he can hold his Logia form for at least 12 hours. No way in hell is Gaara's chakra lasting that long and when it runs out Gaara gets shanked in the back.


Scan of Croc's immense strength feat whilst completely sand? Is it enough to break out of the gourd? Didn't think so...


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## Lance Vance (Mar 16, 2009)

Fuujin said:


> It's still a damn sight more impressive than anything Croc has ever done. Apart from the drying power, the stuff Croc does is child's play to Gaara.



Crocodile cut the desert in half near effortlessly. That is impressive.



> In a battle of forces, the superior and greater force wins. That was the whole point of the Darth Vader comparison. Gaara would overpower Croc so fast it would make him shit bricks...of sand.



This comparison can't be made, we haven't seen Gaara control sentinent sand. Yet, I doubt crocodile would be completely submissive as sand.


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## Fuujin (Mar 16, 2009)

Lance Vance said:


> Crocodile cut the desert in half near effortlessly. That is impressive.


If it had been rock it would have been impressive, as it stands, separating grains of sand really isn't difficult. Luffy actually managing to punch through the sharp edge of it proves that its cutting power is minimal. Hell, a strong and well placed breeze could have accomplished the same thing as Croc's spada.



> This comparison can't be made, we haven't seen Gaara control sentinent sand. Yet, I doubt crocodile would be completely submissive as sand.


I'm not saying he would be completely submissive, but the difference in the level of control needed to make a sharp blade of sand and to actually lift hundreds of tons worth of it...that's massive. There is no way Croc can effectively override that control and as soon as he gets locked in the gourd the fight is pretty much over.

That leaves Sandman and you've said yourself that he has stamina issues. Gaara could easily ride him out as Sandman can't get around his automatic barrier.


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## Narcissus (Mar 16, 2009)

WaitFuujin, you're saying Gaara is going to "seal" these two into the earth?  Something he has never done before?  To two opponents?  Whose abilities he won't know?  Really?  REALLY?

And ya know, some feats of the stuff you're claiming would be nice.


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## Abigail (Mar 16, 2009)

Fuujin said:


> If it had been rock it would have been impressive, as it stands, separating grains of sand really isn't difficult. Luffy actually managing to punch through the sharp edge of it proves that its cutting power is minimal. *Hell, a strong and well placed breeze could have accomplished the same thing as Croc's spada.*


You couldn't see that bottom of the gourge that desert spada made. No breeze could make that.




> I'm not saying he would be completely submissive, but the difference in the level of control needed to make a sharp blade of sand and to actually lift hundreds of tons worth of it...that's massive. There is no way Croc can effectively override that control and as soon as he gets locked in the gourd the fight is pretty much over.
> 
> That leaves Sandman and you've said yourself that he has stamina issues. Gaara could easily ride him out as Sandman can't get around his automatic barrier.


Gaara has crappy stamina. He only lasted between 30 minutes to an hour in the Deidaria fight. His stamina is running out first.


----------



## Fenton (Mar 16, 2009)

Fuujin said:


> No, his plan is to control Croc's own body via its sand and put it into the gourd and seal it. Not very difficult. He has shown the capacity to drag sand back into that gourd multiple times.



He has trouble keeping up with the likes of Kimimaro and a guy riding a clay bird and he's goind to catch Someone who doesn't even need to run to get from point A to point B before people can even react. 

That doesn't even account for the fact that Croc just has to touch his sand to dry him, while Gaara has to catch him, pull him in and place him into his gourd to do something you have no proof would even work. Not that I'd matter. He'd die before getting the chance.




> It really isn't strong enough to get through Gaara's defenses. Not if that sprinkling rain of metal needles couldn't.



I already said it couldn't cut his sand sphere. As for the rest. Lee's Kunai, Sasuke's kunai, Gai's hand, chidori all cut his sand. Even a bone spear was able to get all the way into his shield before breaking.

Also, that "weak attack" was never shown having a limit to what id does (cutting the ground and building) Gaara's sand has. 



> Urm, maybe by not letting Croc touch him with his hand? Dur dur.



Your smug attitude is pretty ironic considering you have yet to post any evidence and repededly ignore any that prove you wrong. It was already shown in two different links posted that he can dry people by touching the ground and that he can travel through air. He can also make seperate parts of his body travel through the air.

Not to mention he could simply raise his hand and dry everyone around him.


*Spoiler*: __ 










Oh, and dur dur.


> As for the ground death thing...maybe using his sand to fly up out of the way like he has done on so many occasions?



Read above.


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## Quelsatron (Mar 16, 2009)

Fuujin said:


> No, his plan is to control Croc's own body via its sand and put it into the gourd and seal it. Not very difficult. He has shown the capacity to drag sand back into that gourd multiple times.
> *If Gaara puts him into the gourd i dont see whats stopping him from mummifying him.*
> 
> Weak attack is weak. Desert spada's only redeeming quality is the size of the attack. Cutting through sand isn't very hard. Luffy's fist punched through it for god's sakes...that's RUBBER with a wide surface area punching through what is essentially compact sand. It really isn't strong enough to get through Gaara's defenses. Not if that sprinkling rain of metal needles couldn't.
> ...



stupid limit


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## Fuujin (Mar 16, 2009)

Narcissus said:


> WaitFuujin, you're saying Gaara is going to "seal" these two into the earth?  Something he has never done before?  To two opponents?  Whose abilities he won't know?  Really?  REALLY?
> 
> And ya know, some feats of the stuff you're claiming would be nice.


I'm saying he can seal CROC in his gourd. I never said about sealing Sandman. He isn't the more immediate threat. Also it's not as if this is 2v1. They will be busy with each other and he has shown that he seals sand in his gourd multiple times in the series...after every fight where he uses it in fact.



Ranmyaku Arashi said:


> You couldn't see that bottom of the gourge that desert spada made. No breeze could make that.


So what? That proves it has a depth of at least 2 metres. Great job!

You're talking about it as if it's some 1 mile deep gash in the face of the earth.



> Gaara has crappy stamina. He only lasted between 30 minutes to an hour in the Deidaria fight. His stamina is running out first.


What? We have no idea how long they spent fighting. He doesn't even need to use stamina to store and keep the sand in his gourd.



Rokudo Mukuro said:


> He has trouble keeping up with the likes of Kimimaro and a guy riding a clay bird and he's goind to catch Someone who doesn't even need to run to get from point A to point B before people can even react.


Gaara's sand has blocked explosions from point blank range after coming from nowhere. These are the kind of explosions that travel in excess of 1km/s



> That doesn't even account for the fact that Croc just has to touch his sand to dry him, while Gaara has to catch him, pull him in and place him into his gourd to do something you have no proof would even work. Not that I'd matter. He'd die before getting the chance.


Croc doesn't have the speed you wished he does. There is no way he can blitz this fight like you are claiming and all Gaara has to do to "catch" him is raise a hand and control him. Maybe not even that.



> I already said it couldn't cut his sand sphere. As for the rest. Lee's Kunai, Sasuke's kunai, Gai's hand, chidori all cut his sand. Even a bone spear was able to get all the way into his shield before breaking.


That bone spear was many times harder than steel. Gai is INCREDIBLY strong since he was confident about punching a giant boulder into debris and we have no reason to believe he couldn't have done it if there wasn't a barrier jutsu there. And Lee's kunai only cut the fine parts moving towards him rather than the actual shield. Sasuke was shown to destroy a sand bunshin with his fist but that isn't completely the same thing as a shield either.



> Also, that "weak attack" was never shown having a limit to what id does (cutting the ground and building) Gaara's sand has.


It was never shown to have a limit so it must have no limit!

Even if the above was true it would not mean it has no limit. And considering the fact that it HAS shown limits (not cutting the desert forever, only cutting a 1 metre wide gap, breaking on Luffy's hand) I think it's safe to say it is VERY limited.



> Your smug attitude is pretty ironic considering you have yet to post any evidence and repededly ignore any that prove you wrong. It was already shown in two different links posted that he can dry people by touching the ground and that he can travel through air. He can also make seperate parts of his body travel through the air.


I am very smug because I know that I'm right. Okay hotshot. What feats of Gaara's do you want me to prove? I'll humour you this time...



> Not to mention he could simply raise his hand and dry everyone around him.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __


The sandstorm did not dry that SINGLE person. It buried many, but Croc required his hand to touch the face of the only one who got dried. Croc has also said to Luffy that he can dry things "...with this right hand of mine". Kinda implies he requires the hand to do so doesn't it?



Quelsatron said:


> If Gaara puts him into the gourd i dont see whats stopping him from mummifying him.


How about the fact that Croc has NEVER EVER shown the ability to dehydrate things whilst in completely sand mode?



> Desert spada also cut roughly 50 meter rock/soil with the cut stretching as deep as the eye could see. That's a tremendous amount of cutting power.


Scan complete with scaling to prove it. GOGOGO!



> Croc can fly too


Not whilst in solid form. That effectively makes his chances of mummifying Gaara 0


> Gaara is hardly what you could call mobile. Besides, if he does it on anything that touches Gaara he'll dehydrate


He was chasing Deidara around like it was nothing. And he will not dehydrate Gaara that quickly especially if he is airborne which makes dehydration impossible unless Croc can just jump really really high really really fast and get lucky with a touch to the face...doubt it though.


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## Onomatopoeia (Mar 16, 2009)

Gaara is teh haxxorz! Crocodile is teh suk!


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## Narcissus (Mar 16, 2009)

> I'm saying he can seal CROC in his gourd. I never said about sealing Sandman. He isn't the more immediate threat. Also it's not as if this is 2v1. They will be busy with each other and he has shown that he seals sand in his gourd multiple times in the series...after every fight where he uses it in fact.



So he is going to seal Croc in a gourd made out of sand?  Amazing logic that is, Fuujin.  Since you seem to think Gaara can manipulate Croc and Sandman's bodies, then so can they.  In other words, Croc will simply get out of the gourd by manipulating Gaara's sand.

Now what exactly is he going to do to Sandman?  He can't hurt him at all.

Your logic is utterly flawed.


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## C. Hook (Mar 16, 2009)

Fuujin said:


> Not whilst in solid form. That effectively makes his chances of mummifying Gaara 0



Just wanted to rectify this...
Link removed
Link removed
Link removed
Link removed

Croc stayed in the air for a VERY long time. He almost certainly flew.


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## Quelsatron (Mar 17, 2009)

Fuujin said:


> How about the fact that Croc has NEVER EVER shown the ability to dehydrate things whilst in completely sand mode?
> 
> 
> Scan complete with scaling to prove it. GOGOGO!
> ...



By the way, Gaara needs to inject his chakra into the sand to control it, he can't just control them off the bat.


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## Fuujin (Mar 17, 2009)

Quelsatron said:


> There was some rock too, including the wall. And it was hardly loose soil so it would be more impressive than the one who cut sand.


This is true.



> Ground death almost got luffy who was some 15 meters away standing on sand. Needless to say the sand armor wouldn't do shit.


Well I only saw the scene in the anime and it seemed to take a looooong assss tiiiiiime to do its shit. Could you post the scans from the manga for me to check out and see what the timeframe is? Pretty please? 



> I think it was specifically said that the newly formed sand had his chakra injected into it. The sand shield is soaked in chakra making it higher quality than any generic sand that he uses. It's not a lenghty process and can be done to lots at the same time. But he need to touch the sand with his own(i think)


He said that he mixed the blood of his enemies into the sand to fuel the war or some shit like that. I wouldn't give it any more credit than a pagan ritual feeding his old bloodthirsty nature.

Also check it out:






I doubt he had any time to pour his chakra into that much sand in that random direction of desert. or even touch it with his sand since he was busy using it to fly and fend Deidara off.


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## Quelsatron (Mar 17, 2009)

Fuujin said:


> This is true.
> 
> 
> Well I only saw the scene in the anime and it seemed to take a looooong assss tiiiiiime to do its shit. Could you post the scans from the manga for me to check out and see what the timeframe is? Pretty please?
> ...



DERP 10 CHAR


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## Lord Stark (Mar 17, 2009)

Hm Gaara's sand is mixed with blood so he takes them both down


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## Fenton (Mar 17, 2009)

Mizukage Hitsugaya 10 said:


> Hm Gaara's sand is mixed with blood so he takes them both down



You do realize the liquid has to be wet otherwise it's meaningless.

Also, Croc could still dry it with a touch.


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## Fuujin (Mar 18, 2009)

Quelsatron said:


> Read from here on(mass erosion=ground death)


Thanks.

Well, just by looking at it I could easily argue that there was no given time frame for him drying it. It took a long time to the point that gravity had time to pull Luffy down into that chasm partially and for him to get back up again even before it started to dry his sandals.

Also, notice that Luffy escaped it by jumping onto a building. Gaara can just get on top of his sand and fly away before it starts to actually dry him, judging by the scans he should have ample time.

Anyway, I quit now. I've made my case for a scenario where Gaara is very likely to win and also shown that Croc is also very limited in his ways to victory. Maybe desert spada can cut through Gaara's shield...probably not though due to the fact that it tanks explosions with much more force to them. Maybe Croc can resist Gaara's control but he will get overpowered even if he manages. Gaara has shown superior feats in even controlling foreign sand whereas the nearest thing to that which Croc has shown is making a sandstorm come from the tip of his hook. Thus sealing Croc in his gourd would be a viable option for winning, especially if Croc is unable to control any sand he doesn't create himself.

All of this assumes Croc has a time limit for intangibility which is realistic (a day or two tops) and after which he would cease to be able to reassemble. That's pretty much what my case rests on.

The whole point about Gaara never controlling sentient sand is irrelevant anyway if you consider what happens in the case of two opposing forces.

Bye folks.


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## chulance (Mar 19, 2009)

I still think Croc can suck the moisture out of Gaara and than Sandman can  beat him.


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## Fenton (Mar 19, 2009)

chulance said:


> I still think Croc can suck the moisture out of Gaara and than Sandman can  beat him.



That's becasue it's still true.


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## Endless Mike (Mar 20, 2009)

Fuujin's arguments just get more retarded by the minute.

First of all, blocking Deidara's explosions means nothing since they are clearly magical chakra explosions that don't work the same way as normal explosions (proof is that his suicide blast formed that weird shape which is completely impossible using any known laws of physics and blast propagation). So their speed is unknown and worthless to use for quantification.

Secondly, Fuujin, are you seriously arguing that Desert Spada is weak because Luffy punched through it? With the same attack that ripped through a massive amount of bedrock and collapsed a city block?

Show me one physical strength feat from Naruto that did anywhere near that much damage. I dare you. Gomu Gomu no Storm would turn Gaara into pulp in seconds.


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## ipakmann (Mar 20, 2009)

Endless Mike said:


> Fuujin's arguments just get more retarded by the minute.
> 
> First of all, blocking Deidara's explosions means nothing since they are clearly magical chakra explosions that don't work the same way as normal explosions (proof is that his suicide blast formed that weird shape which is completely impossible using any known laws of physics and blast propagation). So their speed is unknown and worthless to use for quantification.
> 
> ...



No this sir would evaporate Gaara into particles   Gomu Gomu no pistol would turn Gaara into a plup.


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## Fenton (Mar 20, 2009)

Endless Mike said:


> *Secondly, Fuujin, are you seriously arguing that Desert Spada is weak because Luffy punched through it?* With the same attack that ripped through a massive amount of bedrock and collapsed a city block?
> 
> Show me one physical strength feat from Naruto that did anywhere near that much damage. I dare you. Gomu Gomu no Storm would turn Gaara into pulp in seconds.



It wouldn't help. Luffy punched it because he had blood on his hand and liquid happened to be his specific weakness (I'm explaining this to Fuujon, BTW). 

Gaara, having no water jutsu and unable to even draw his own blood is screwed unless he pulls some brand new ability he's never shown in the manga out of his ass or just being all around better with sand because "I say so."


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## Fuujin (Mar 21, 2009)

Endless Mike said:


> Fuujin's arguments just get more retarded by the minute.


This is coming from a guy who's name should really be Endlessly Bad Arguments.



> First of all, blocking Deidara's explosions means nothing since they are clearly magical chakra explosions that don't work the same way as normal explosions (proof is that his suicide blast formed that weird shape which is completely impossible using any known laws of physics and blast propagation). So their speed is unknown and worthless to use for quantification.


No. His final explosion was done in a completely different way to all the others. All others should be assumed to have the properties of normal explosions and if anything the last one would be deadlier and faster than any of them going by powerscaling.

So no, YOUR retarded arguments hold no water, just like Croc's body.



> Secondly, Fuujin, are you seriously arguing that Desert Spada is weak because Luffy punched through it? With the same attack that ripped through a massive amount of bedrock and collapsed a city block?


He did that with blunt force. Spada is a cutting attack. It doesn't matter how much force Luffy's punch exerted, if the material is still rubber and spada is still as sharp as razors it shouldn't have crumpled like that under the force, if anything Luffy's hand should have been split in two. But that's plotgomu for you. Invincible!



> Show me one physical strength feat from Naruto that did anywhere near that much damage. I dare you. Gomu Gomu no Storm would turn Gaara into pulp in seconds.


Read the title of the thread. Luffy doesn't come into this fight in any way. Oh and your big words aren't that impressive considering the bedrock feat is massively overrated and wanked.


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## The World (Mar 21, 2009)

Endless Mike said:


> Fuujin's arguments just get more retarded by the minute.
> 
> *First of all, blocking Deidara's explosions means nothing since they are clearly magical chakra explosions that don't work the same way as normal explosions (proof is that his suicide blast formed that weird shape which is completely impossible using any known laws of physics and blast propagation). So their speed is unknown and worthless to use for quantification*.
> 
> ...



It's called chakra molding, just like how Gaara mold's chakra into his sand and forms wierd shapes, Deidara does the same with his special mouth hands.


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## Quelsatron (Mar 21, 2009)

Fuujin said:


> This is coming from a guy who's name should really be Endlessly Bad Arguments.





> QUOTE=Fuujin





> He did that with blunt force. Spada is a cutting attack. It doesn't matter how much force Luffy's punch exerted, if the material is still rubber and spada is still as sharp as razors it shouldn't have crumpled like that under the force, if anything Luffy's hand should have been split in two. But that's plotgomu for you. Invincible!


There is a thing called durability you know



> Read the title of the thread. Luffy doesn't come into this fight in any way. Oh and your big words aren't that impressive considering the bedrock feat is massively overrated and wanked.



Please tell me how it is wanked or sod off


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## Fuujin (Mar 21, 2009)

Quelsatron said:


> There is a thing called durability you know


Irrelevant. Luffy was scared shitless of being hit by the attack before and I'm pretty sure it cut him at some point anyway.

If his durability couldn't handle it before, then putting more force into his skin and spada clashing would just result in a bigger injury for him.



> Please tell me how it is wanked or sod off


The bedrock wasn't as many metres thick as people claim it to be.


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## Quelsatron (Mar 21, 2009)

Fuujin said:


> Irrelevant. Luffy was scared shitless of being hit by the attack before and I'm pretty sure it cut him at some point anyway.
> 
> If his durability couldn't handle it before, then putting more force into his skin and spada clashing would just result in a bigger injury for him.


He was never hit by Desert spada. His fists could also be more durable than the rest of him



> The bedrock wasn't as many metres thick as people claim it to be.



It was certainly at least 10 meters or so and he still leveled a city block


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## Lord Stark (Mar 21, 2009)

Rokudo Mukuro said:


> You do realize the liquid has to be wet otherwise it's meaningless.
> 
> Also, Croc could still dry it with a touch.



That sir is an oxymoron 
And what proof do you have that said liquid isn't wet.
But aside from that technicality Croc would probably win this battle, especially in the OBD (where Naruto gets hammered, and OP gets wanked until kingdom come)


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## SmashSk8er (Mar 21, 2009)

Croc and Sandman get grinded into sub-sand.


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## ipakmann (Mar 21, 2009)

The thing is that Gaara is one of the worse terrakenetics in fiction to date why? Well I'll tell you why his power is based on a limited supply of energy that's why! Now take Toph, or Terra for example they would be or should be consider better than Gaara because they can control earth and anything of the earth at any given time. Also there no time limit to their control over earth. Now when you go even higher o terrakenetic scale you get to peope who actully are the element. Characters such as Sandman, and Crocdile are sand and can generate unlimited amouts of sand from their bodies. Crocodile (dont know about sandman) can actually turn the environment into a desert by dehydrating everything around him. Also when wet both Sandman and crocodile can both still fight as stated early, But since the combatants in question have no water techs moisture is an irreverent concept especially since the two more powerful combatants won't be really heavily effected.


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## Abigail (Mar 21, 2009)

Fuujin said:


> This is coming from a guy who's name should really be Endlessly Bad Arguments.


 Hypocrite thy name is Fuujin


> So no, YOUR retarded arguments hold no water, just like Croc's body.





> He did that with blunt force. Spada is a cutting attack. It doesn't matter how much force Luffy's punch exerted, if the material is still rubber and spada is still as sharp as razors it shouldn't have crumpled like that under the force, if anything Luffy's hand should have been split in two. But that's plotgomu for you. Invincible!





Rokudo Mukuro said:


> It wouldn't help. Luffy punched it because he had blood on his hand and liquid happened to be his specific weakness (I'm explaining this to Fuujon, BTW).


Hello ignoring posts that disprove you.


> Read the title of the thread. Luffy doesn't come into this fight in any way. Oh and your big words aren't that impressive considering the bedrock feat is massively overrated and wanked.



How is it wanked, because it is used to prove that Naruto characters lose?
Learn what wanked means first Fuujin.


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## C. Hook (Mar 21, 2009)

How is Gaara going to get Crocodile wet? How is Gaara going to force both Croc and Sandman into his gourd? How the hell is Gaara going to win if he stuffs Croc in the gourd, when against Sandman he'll still die, releasing Croc? Or how about viceversa? Are you going to say Gaara has more control over sand than two people MADE of sand?

This thread is essentially pointless. The only reason it's lasted this long is because Fuujin somehow thinks Gaara will be able to kill two people who can't be harmed except with liquid (Which Gaara can't obtain) and have just as much control over sand as him. Not to mention Gaara doesn't even know their weakness.


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## Fuujin (Mar 21, 2009)

ipakmann said:


> The thing is that Gaara is one of the worse terrakenetics in fiction to date why? Well I'll tell you why his power is based on a limited supply of energy that's why! Now take Toph, or Terra for example they would be or should be consider better than Gaara because they can control earth and anything of the earth at any given time. Also there no time limit to their control over earth. Now when you go even higher o terrakenetic scale you get to peope who actully are the element. Characters such as Sandman, and Crocdile are sand and can generate unlimited amouts of sand from their bodies. Crocodile (dont know about sandman) can actually turn the environment into a desert by dehydrating everything around him. Also when wet both Sandman and crocodile can both still fight as stated early, But since the combatants in question have no water techs moisture is an irreverent concept especially since the two more powerful combatants won't be really heavily effected.


Gaara can also turn anything into a desert. He turned normal Earth into a terrain of sand in the Kimimaro fight. Oh and all of the people you listed have limited energy. If they had infinite ability Croc could have drowned the world in sand and ruled it. Toph could easily have reshaped mountains to suit her needs and would be hailed as goddess of the world. Cities would exist only in fear of Toph and her ability to destroy them at will.

The truth is that Gaara has shown much greater control feats than Croc and can (pay attention to this next bit, it's important) CONTROL FOREIGN SAND HE DIDN'T CREATE VIA PARTS OF HIS BODY MASS. I know, it's remarkable. Just because he tires sooner doesn't mean he has less control.



C. Hook said:


> How is Gaara going to get Crocodile wet? How is Gaara going to force both Croc and Sandman into his gourd? How the hell is Gaara going to win if he stuffs Croc in the gourd, when against Sandman he'll still die, releasing Croc? Or how about viceversa? Are you going to say Gaara has more control over sand than two people MADE of sand?
> 
> This thread is essentially pointless. The only reason it's lasted this long is because Fuujin somehow thinks Gaara will be able to kill two people who can't be harmed except with liquid (Which Gaara can't obtain) and have just as much control over sand as him. Not to mention Gaara doesn't even know their weakness.


All your questions are answered in my posts before and your statements debunked. Helps to read the thread, oh and I don't like to repeat myself.


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## Quelsatron (Mar 21, 2009)

Fuujin said:


> Gaara can also turn anything into a desert. He turned normal Earth into a terrain of sand in the Kimimaro fight. Oh and all of the people you listed have limited energy. If they had infinite ability Croc could have drowned the world in sand and ruled it. Toph could easily have reshaped mountains to suit her needs and would be hailed as goddess of the world. Cities would exist only in fear of Toph and her ability to destroy them at will.



Croc could drown the world in sand, only it would take ages just like if you would try to drown the world in spit.


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## Fuujin (Mar 21, 2009)

Quelsatron said:


> Croc could drown the world in sand, only it would take ages just like if you would try to drown the world in spit.


No he couldn't. He got tired by fighting Luffy. His words. Stop making him out to be some invincible god with no limits.


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## ipakmann (Mar 21, 2009)

Fuujin said:


> Gaara can also turn anything into a desert. He turned normal Earth into a terrain of sand in the Kimimaro fight. Oh and all of the people you listed have limited energy. If they had infinite ability Croc could have drowned the world in sand and ruled it. Toph could easily have reshaped mountains to suit her needs and would be hailed as goddess of the world. Cities would exist only in fear of Toph and her ability to destroy them at will.
> 
> The truth is that Gaara has shown much greater control feats than Croc and can (pay attention to this next bit, it's important) CONTROL FOREIGN SAND HE DIDN'T CREATE VIA PARTS OF HIS BODY MASS. I know, it's remarkable. Just because he tires sooner doesn't mean he has less control.
> 
> ...


one word charkra


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## C. Hook (Mar 21, 2009)

Hey Fuujin, did you know about a guy who isn't Croc or Gaara?

You know, 

If Gaara's paying all his attention to Croc, what about old Sandy right here? Are you going to say Gaara somehow beats Sandman too? I like how you are such a hypocrite. If anyone has wanked a character to be God without physical limits, it's you and Kyuubi.

And the reason Croc got tired was because he was forced to go physical in some of his fights due to Luffy's water. Does Gaara have water? Actually, answer me this, because I feel you should be able to do it in one sentence: HOW WILL GAARA HURT SANDMAN AND CROCODILE???


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## The World (Mar 21, 2009)

By crushing them into sub-sand. 


Still debatable whether Gaara can control Croc, sentient sand, via chakra control.


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## C. Hook (Mar 21, 2009)

Roxxas said:


> By crushing them into sub-sand.
> 
> 
> Still debatable whether Gaara can control Croc, sentient sand, via chakra control.



What is he going to do about Sandman, barring sub-sand?


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## The World (Mar 21, 2009)

Sub-sub-sand of course.


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## Fuujin (Mar 21, 2009)

C. Hook said:


> Hey Fuujin, did you know about a guy who isn't Croc or Gaara?
> 
> You know,
> 
> ...


If you'd bothered to read the thread you'd already know that I'm not familiar with Sandman and refuse to comment on him.

Now either go back and read all the posts properly or stop badgering me.


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## C. Hook (Mar 21, 2009)

You plan for Croc to be sealed inside the gourd has so many holes it isn't even funny, the greatest of which would be, THAT DOESN'T EVEN DEFEAT CROC. All it does is put Croc in a small container that he could easily bust out of or travel through, in which case he would decapitate Gaara. Plus, this would require Gaara to, you know, be concentrating on Croc the entire time while he gets raped by Sandman. 

Honestly, the fact you know nothing about one of the combatants is pretty worrying. Sandman is going to kill Gaara if Gaara wastes his time trying to kill Croc, and I don't see how anything you say changes that.

So, in the end, for your plan to work, Gaara's gourd would have to be indestructible, his control over sand would be so great that he can control two people MADE of sand outside of their own will, all while dodging attacks.

And, last question, how would Gaara know Croc is made of sand? Croc would just use a desert spada and slice Gaara in half. Gaara will do the natural thing and try to use his sand shield against the attack, which will cut through it like butter and KILL HIM, or at least severely maim him. Gaara wouldn't try to be controlling Croc, because he doesn't even know Croc is made of sand.


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## The World (Mar 21, 2009)

Why do you keep thinking Sandman is going to go after Gaara first and not Croc?


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## C. Hook (Mar 21, 2009)

Roxxas said:


> Why do you keep thinking Sandman is going to go after Gaara first and not Croc?



The thing is, I'm not assuming that. I'm assuming if Gaara puts Sandman in his bottle, Croc will kill Gaara, since Sandman's inside the gourd. If Gaara puts Croc inside the gourd, Sandman will attack Gaara. If Croc and Sandman attack only each other at the beginning (A very large IF), Gaara still loses as soon as they realize they can't hurt each other.


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## The World (Mar 21, 2009)

Yeah, that's true.


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## C. Hook (Mar 21, 2009)

Of course, this all merely is based on the idea that Fuujin seems to hold that LOL, CROC + SANMAN CAN BE CONTROLED BEACAUSE I SAD SO!!!1!


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## Quelsatron (Mar 21, 2009)

I dont even understand why people try to argue against Fuujin when he's never gonna conceed


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## C. Hook (Mar 21, 2009)

Quelsatron said:


> I dont even understand why people try to argue against Fuujin when he's never gonna conceed



You're arguing against him.


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## Abigail (Mar 21, 2009)

C. Hook said:


> Of course, this all merely is based on the idea that Fuujin seems to hold that LOL, CROC + SANMAN CAN BE CONTROLED BEACAUSE I SAD SO!!!1!


Pretty much.


C. Hook said:


> You're arguing against him.


I'm laughing at him.


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## Quelsatron (Mar 21, 2009)

C. Hook said:


> You're arguing against him.



only at points that he would probably conceed


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## Fuujin (Mar 21, 2009)

C. Hook said:


> You plan for Croc to be sealed inside the gourd has so many holes it isn't even funny, the greatest of which would be, THAT DOESN'T EVEN DEFEAT CROC. All it does is put Croc in a small container that he could easily bust out of or travel through, in which case he would decapitate Gaara. Plus, this would require Gaara to, you know, be concentrating on Croc the entire time while he gets raped by Sandman.


Already stated Croc has no strength feats whilst he's sand.



> Honestly, the fact you know nothing about one of the combatants is pretty worrying. Sandman is going to kill Gaara if Gaara wastes his time trying to kill Croc, and I don't see how anything you say changes that.


Sandman is too slow to be a factor

Point dealt with when I refused to comment on Sandman.



> So, in the end, for your plan to work, Gaara's gourd would have to be indestructible, his control over sand would be so great that he can control two people MADE of sand outside of their own will, all while dodging attacks.


Yeah pretty much hit the nail on the head there. But the thing is his gourd doesn't have to be indestructable. Point dealt with earlier anyway.



> And, last question, how would Gaara know Croc is made of sand? Croc would just use a desert spada and slice Gaara in half. Gaara will do the natural thing and try to use his sand shield against the attack, which will cut through it like butter and KILL HIM, or at least severely maim him. Gaara wouldn't try to be controlling Croc, because he doesn't even know Croc is made of sand.


Dealt, dealt, and dealt with.

Have you noticed that nearly every single point you just raised was raised and countered by me before? Have you realised the utter futility in arguing the same points over and over again? Have you noticed that I have withdrawn from the thread since I am merely repeating myself now only to get people saying "nuh-uh" without any logical or good counters whatsoever?

Good day to you sir.


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## C. Hook (Mar 21, 2009)

Fuujin said:


> Already stated Croc has no strength feats whilst he's sand.



Desert Spada=Busted Gourd.



Fuujin said:


> Sandman is too slow to be a factor



And Gaara is going to be too busy dealing with Croc/Sandman to fight Croc/Sandman.



Fuujin said:


> Point dealt with when I refused to comment on Sandman.



You are commenting on Sandman.



Fuujin said:


> Yeah pretty much hit the nail on the head there. But the thing is his gourd doesn't have to be indestructable. Point dealt with earlier anyway.



You think Gaara can control both Croc and Sandman at the same time? You think Gaara's gourd can resist a desert spada?





Fuujin said:


> Dealt, dealt, and dealt with.
> 
> Have you noticed that nearly every single point you just raised was raised and countered by me before? Have you realised the utter futility in arguing the same points over and over again? Have you noticed that I have withdrawn from the thread since I am merely repeating myself now only to get people saying "nuh-uh" without any logical or good counters whatsoever?
> 
> Good day to you sir.



Have you noticed that everyone in the board hates you and your debating? Have you noticed you're essentially held as a joke by EVERYONE who posts more than two sentences at a time? Have you ever considered that Kyuubi might not be able to withstand a planetbuster? That there is no evidence for Kyuubi being intangible?

Fuck you and your laziness. Your solution to killing Croc is to keep him in a container he can desert spada out of. Go on, tell me how he won't desert spada out of the gourd.


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## Abigail (Mar 21, 2009)

Fuujin said:


> Already stated Croc has no strength feats whilst he's sand.


 Gaara has never controlled sentient sand. See what I did there.


> Sandman is too slow to be a factor
> 
> Point dealt with when I refused to comment on Sandman.


You said you have no idea what Sandman can do yet he is somehow to slow. Wonderful LOJIK.


> Yeah pretty much hit the nail on the head there. But the thing is his gourd doesn't have to be indestructable. Point dealt with earlier anyway.


Then said point was destroyed.


> Dealt, dealt, and dealt with.
> 
> Have you noticed that nearly every single point you just raised was raised and countered by me before? Have you realised the utter futility in arguing the same points over and over again? Have you noticed that I have withdrawn from the thread since I am merely repeating myself now only to get people saying "nuh-uh" without any logical or good counters whatsoever?


Please show me where you countered anything. All I saw was you saying yes he can then repeating the same things that have been destroyed Ad Nauseum.


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## Fuujin (Mar 21, 2009)

C. Hook said:


> Have you noticed that everyone in the board hates you and your debating? Have you noticed you're essentially held as a joke by EVERYONE who posts more than two sentences at a time? Have you ever considered that Kyuubi might not be able to withstand a planetbuster? That there is no evidence for Kyuubi being intangible?


Other people's opinions are not my problem. The fact that certain members would rather hold me as a joke than admit that they are wrong is something I find to be truly sad.



> Fuck you and your laziness. Your solution to killing Croc is to keep him in a container he can desert spada out of. Go on, tell me how he won't desert spada out of the gourd.


Croc has never used spada without open space in which to swing his arm. Quite hard to swing an arm when your arm is a heap of cramped sand don't you think?



Ranmyaku Arashi said:


> Gaara has never controlled sentient sand. See what I did there.


You are overestimating Croc's strength whilst in sand form when he has never shown anything of the sort. At most he has travelled on a breeze but that's it.

Gaara on the other hand has shown the capability of controlling massive amounts of sand and sentient sand is not different in any way except the fact that the sand is fighting back. The problem is that Gaara can overpower it going by sand control feats on both sides.

Now....HOW MANY MORE TIMES DO I NEED TO REPEAT THE SAME DAMN POINT BEFORE YOU GET IT? Do you want me to double, triple, quadruple post the same copy pasted crap page after page after page or shall we move on from this point by having you admit your argument pales in comparison to mine? Sound fair? Good, glad I have your approval.



> You said you have no idea what Sandman can do yet he is somehow to slow. Wonderful LOJIK.


What I DO know of him is that his reaction time and speed are all human level. I also know he can fire his sand at bullet speeds, problem is Gaara's shield can casually block things much faster than them so it won't be a problem. Oh and since the shield is automatic he can focus all his attention on Croc, effectively making Sandman a nonfactor unless he pulls something big.

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.



> Then said point was destroyed.


You call that destroyed? Please. I've countered your points with much more powerful stuff and that didn't stop you repeating them over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and well you get the point.



> Please show me where you countered anything. All I saw was you saying yes he can then repeating the same things that have been destroyed Ad Nauseum.


Use your eyes and realise that your arguments are crap. Maybe learn to debate and realise when you're beaten.


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## C. Hook (Mar 21, 2009)

Fuujin said:


> Croc has never used spada without open space in which to swing his arm. Quite hard to swing an arm when your arm is a heap of cramped sand don't you think?



Gaara has never shown the ability to control sentient sand. Croc has shown the ability to fire desert spadas without swinging his arm.

vacuum wave
vacuum wave

Also, notice how his arm turned into sand before using it? Therefore, Croc in sand form can still use it, since his arm is sand before using it.



Fuujin said:


> You are overestimating Croc's strength whilst in sand form when he has never shown anything of the sort. At most he has travelled on a breeze but that's it.
> 
> Gaara on the other hand has shown the capability of controlling massive amounts of sand and sentient sand is not different in any way except the fact that the sand is fighting back. The problem is that Gaara can overpower it going by sand control feats on both sides.



How the FUCK does that make sense? If he can control large amounts of sand that can't fight back, he can control small amounts that can? 



Fuujin said:


> Use your eyes and realise that your arguments are crap. Maybe learn to debate and realise when you're beaten.



In debates, typically people don't say, because a character can do A, and B=C, then that character can do C! That's essentially what you're saying by equating controlling large amounts of sand to controlling sentient sand.


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## Fuujin (Mar 21, 2009)

C. Hook said:


> Gaara has never shown the ability to control sentient sand. Croc has shown the ability to fire desert spadas without swinging his arm.
> 
> vacuum wave
> vacuum wave
> ...


Look at your own scans. He swung his arm for the blades to extend. In the gourd his sand won't be able to form into blades. Why? Because there's no space to move around.



> How the FUCK does that make sense? If he can control large amounts of sand that can't fight back, he can control small amounts that can?


No, I'm saying since he can control more sand than Croc he has better control over it overall. If he has better control over it he will be able to overpower Croc's control of sand. This isn't some crap where each grain can only be controlled by one person because it's their "soul" or "essence" or whatever. This is simply a battle of forces. Sand is sand, sentient or not.



> In debates, typically people don't say, because a character can do A, and B=C, then that character can do C! That's essentially what you're saying by equating controlling large amounts of sand to controlling sentient sand.


You don't even realise what I'm saying if that's what you think. Look above. My logic is flawless.


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## C. Hook (Mar 21, 2009)

Fuujin said:


> Look at your own scans. He swung his arm for the blades to extend. In the gourd his sand won't be able to form into blades. Why? Because there's no space to move around.



He "swung" his arm? No he didn't, unless you call moving the arm 90* to get it into a better position "swinging it". Please, don't spout blatant falsehoods. Ignoring that, you have no prove the blades won't be able to form. Ignoring that, there's common sense; Croc can create blades of sand when swinging his arm. Croc's powers are not stated to be restricted to arm swinging, and he attacks several times while not swinging his arms. Therefore, Croc can make blades without swinging his arms.



Fuujin said:


> No, I'm saying since he can control more sand than Croc he has better control over it overall. If he has better control over it he will be able to overpower Croc's control of sand. This isn't some crap where each grain can only be controlled by one person because it's their "soul" or "essence" or whatever. This is simply a battle of forces. Sand is sand, sentient or not.



So let me get this straight; despite Crocodile being able to mold sand into blades, bombs, spikes, etc, as well as being able to create sand traps, you think Gaara has more control because he controls MORE sand, despite him never really molding the sand into anything besides a sphere.  Using your logic that one kind of control over sand>all, Croc has better control of sand because he does those things and Gaara can't.

Ignoring the obvious hilarity there, Gaara has never been seen to control sentient sand. Saying he can is equivalent to saying Croc can use desert spada without swinging his arm; both are inferred solutions.



Fuujin said:


> You don't even realise what I'm saying if that's what you think. Look above. *My logic is flawless.*



Is that why you said Kyuubi would win against Satan, Vegeta, and Dark Schneider?


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## Shock Therapy (Mar 21, 2009)

Fuujin said:


> Look at your own scans. He swung his arm for the blades to extend. In the gourd his sand won't be able to form into blades. Why? Because there's no space to move around.
> 
> 
> No, I'm saying since he can control more sand than Croc he has better control over it overall. If he has better control over it he will be able to overpower Croc's control of sand. This isn't some crap where each grain can only be controlled by one person because it's their "soul" or "essence" or whatever. This is simply a battle of forces. Sand is sand, sentient or not.
> ...



Where on gods green earth did you get such a blasphemous idea that Gaara can control Croc. Please enlighten me.


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## C. Hook (Mar 21, 2009)

My ignore list is now one person longer.


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## The World (Mar 21, 2009)

rawrawraw said:


> Where on gods green earth did you get such a blasphemous idea that Gaara can control Croc. Please enlighten me.



It's not that far out there in terms of ideas. Ninja's use chakra for all types of purposes. Like how puppeteers can control other people with chakra, it isn't that wild of an idea that Gaara who puts chakra into sand and controls it wouldn't be able to do the same thing to Croc if he exerts enough chakra into him. I dunno, it may or may not work who knows.


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## Han Solo (Mar 21, 2009)

rawrawraw said:


> Where on gods green earth did you get such a blasphemous idea that Gaara can control Croc. Please enlighten me.



By being a gigantic ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".).


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## Fuujin (Mar 21, 2009)

C. Hook said:


> He "swung" his arm? No he didn't, unless you call moving the arm 90* to get it into a better position "swinging it". Please, don't spout blatant falsehoods. Ignoring that, you have no prove the blades won't be able to form. Ignoring that, there's common sense; Croc can create blades of sand when swinging his arm. Croc's powers are not stated to be restricted to arm swinging, and he attacks several times while not swinging his arms. Therefore, Croc can make blades without swinging his arms.


Compressed sand has no room to move and can't form blades.



> So let me get this straight; despite Crocodile being able to mold sand into blades, bombs, spikes, etc, as well as being able to create sand traps, you think Gaara has more control because he controls MORE sand, despite him never really molding the sand into anything besides a sphere.  Using your logic that one kind of control over sand>all, Croc has better control of sand because he does those things and Gaara can't.


Controlling larger amounts shows larger force exerted on the sand. Since it will be Gaara's force Vs Croc's force Gaara's wins easily.

Oh and Gaara routinely makes hands and all sorts of funky shit with his sand so your point there is kinda false.



> Ignoring the obvious hilarity there, Gaara has never been seen to control sentient sand. Saying he can is equivalent to saying Croc can use desert spada without swinging his arm; both are inferred solutions.


Okay I conceed on the swinging the arm point. It is an inferred solution and it is valid. As is my sentient sand point. However, the blades still can't form when the sand is compressed and will thus never break through the gourd.

Thanks for trading concessions. Good thing I had a backup point. Where's yours?



> Is that why you said Kyuubi would win against Satan, Vegeta, and Dark Schneider?


That was the past. Welcome to the present. Would you like me to fill you in on the history of the Earth for the past year or two whilst you've been away in order to ease you into the transition?


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## C. Hook (Mar 21, 2009)

Roxxas said:


> It's not that far out there in terms of ideas. Ninja's use chakra for all types of purposes. Like how puppeteers can control other people with chakra, it isn't that wild of an idea that Gaara who puts chakra into sand and controls it wouldn't be able to do the same thing to Croc if he exerts enough chakra into him.



But Croc being able to use Desert Spada without swinging his arm is a wild idea because...


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## The World (Mar 21, 2009)

Yeah it seems even though Gaara might control Croc, Croc can still use his sand or maybe other sources of sand to attack Gaara.


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## ipakmann (Mar 21, 2009)

Roxxas said:


> *Yeah it seems even though Gaara might control Croc, *Croc can still use his sand or maybe other sources of sand to attack Gaara.


No he won't control Croc why you make ask? well let's see 

Who runs out of the magical energy needed to control sand:Gaara
Who needs to infuse this magical engery into sand inorder to control it?: Gaara
Who has a wind demon inside so he has no personal connection with sand what so ever: Gaara


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## The World (Mar 21, 2009)

ipakmann said:


> No he won't control Croc why you make ask? well let's see
> 
> Who runs out of the magical energy needed to control sand:Gaara
> Who needs to infuse this magical engery into sand inorder to control it?: Gaara
> Who has a wind demon inside so he has no personal connection with sand what so ever: Gaara



Wat? You make even less sense then i do. What does having a wind demon have to do with anything? That demon is completely made out of sand btw and wasn't even fully transformed/activated in power when it was released too.
Gaara controls sand through chakra, that's it plain and simple, he doesn't need a personal connection.


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## The World (Mar 21, 2009)

ipakmann said:


> No he won't control Croc why you make ask? well let's see
> 
> Who runs out of the magical energy needed to control sand:Gaara
> Who needs to infuse this magical engery into sand inorder to control it?: Gaara
> Who has a wind demon inside so he has no personal connection with sand what so ever: Gaara



Wat?  You make even less sense then i do. What does having a wind demon have to do with anything? That demon is completely made out of sand btw and wasn't even fully transformed/activated in power when it was released too.
Gaara controls sand through chakra, that's it plain and simple, he doesn't need a personal connection.


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## Quelsatron (Mar 21, 2009)

Roxxas said:


> Wat? You make even less sense then i do. What does having a wind demon have to do with anything? That demon is completely made out of sand btw and wasn't even fully transformed/activated in power when it was released too.
> Gaara controls sand through chakra, that's it plain and simple, he doesn't need a personal connection.



Shh...dont acknowledge the troll.


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## Narcissus (Mar 22, 2009)

I see an on-going level of stupidity in a thread that should have died long ago.  

To Fuujin, who continues to spout the same drivel without a shread of proof, back your shit up or simply shut the fuck up.  Refuse to do so and I'll accept your concession.

To ipakmann, Toph has already lost to Gaara in the OBD.

And as for this thread, it still comes down to Croc and Sandman, and while I'm not 100% sure, my money would be on Sandman.


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## ipakmann (Mar 22, 2009)

Narcissus said:


> I see an on-going level of stupidity in a thread that should have died long ago.
> 
> To Fuujin, who continues to spout the same drivel without a shread of proof, back your shit up or simply shut the fuck up.  Refuse to do so and I'll accept your concession.
> 
> ...





Quelsatron said:


> Shh...dont acknowledge the troll.





Roxxas said:


> Wat?  You make even less sense then i do. What does having a wind demon have to do with anything? That demon is completely made out of sand btw and wasn't even fully transformed/activated in power when it was released too.
> Gaara controls sand through *chakra*, that's it plain and simple, he doesn't need a personal connection.



*Narcissus*: yeah I know damn narutards but yeah  I say its a tie really I mean Sandy and croc really can't do anything to one another.

Quelsatron: shh the narutard is trying to argue 


Roxxas:That's why he loses this fight  thank you for pointing that out.





R


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## Fuujin (Mar 22, 2009)

Narcissus said:


> I see an on-going level of stupidity in a thread that should have died long ago.


You and me both.



> To Fuujin, who continues to spout the same drivel without a shread of proof, back your shit up or simply shut the fuck up.  Refuse to do so and I'll accept your concession.


What the hell do I even have to back up? Gaara's massive advantage in terms of power over sand than Croc? Done a few pages back with scans. Someone else was smart enough to conceed when I posted that shit.

Am I supposed to prove Gaara can control Croc? Done through logical deduction which is itself a form of proof as long as there can be no argument against it...and there hasn't been a single good one against it. Most have been to the effect that Croc is better at controlling sand because he is teh epics! Or that Gaara can't control sentient sand which is the most retarded attempt to create burden of proof I have ever seen.

Am I to prove that Gaara can keep his gourd together and thus keep Croc contained indefinitely? Done, if you even fucking read Naruto you would realise that he carries the damn thing 24/7

Now. What else would you like me to prove? That the sky is blue? That Charles Darwin is dead? Maybe you'd like me to prove that David Beckham is in the twilight of his football career?



ipakmann said:


> *Narcissus*: yeah I know damn narutards but yeah  I say its a tie really I mean Sandy and croc really can't do anything to one another.
> 
> Quelsatron: shh the narutard is trying to argue
> 
> ...


You have some real peer pressure issues bro. Don't worry, you don't have to conform to OBD mass opinion just to fit in. It's ok to pay attention to your common sense once in a while for great justice.

I believe you're smart enough to see past your own bullshit. Go for it!


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## ipakmann (Mar 22, 2009)

Fuujin said:


> You and me both.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's nice but I work on the magical engine known as my own opinion 
*Spoiler*: __ 



for the record why did you ever think kyubbi could defeat DBZ characters 


 Your argument says that Gaara would control croc this is untrue because gaara uses sand justu he uses justu through a limited resource known as charkra. croc and sandy can generrate unlimited amounts of sand and croc can dehyrdrate people and absorb water like sand. 

can Gaara do that no. Is gaara "of" sand no does he have the natrual abilty to control it no.

does the Shukaku gives him a higher connection with sand no 

Gaara has no real connection with his element really I mean loses control of it after awhile for Godsakes. 


anyway thread is ridiculous of course gaara would lose to to people who have unlimited control and power of sand.


Stop whining that Gaara would win in this fight because you know  and I know that's just not going to happen.


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## The World (Mar 22, 2009)

ipakmann said:


> That's nice but I work on the magical engine known as my own opinion
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...



I thought Sandman needed other sources of sand to make himself bigger, he doesn't create unlimited amounts of sand at all, he's only limited to the sand that makes up his body.

And we haven't even seen Gaara post-extraction so we have no idea the effect that Shukaku had on him.

And since when does Gaara lose control of his sand after "awhile"? If you are referring to the fact that when *all ninjas* can't use jutsu when they run out of chakra then yea, but Gaara is known to have huge amounts of chakra like Naruto. And depending on what jutsu he does, he won't lose chakra easily at all. 

In his fight with Deidara he used hundreds of thousands of tons of sand with little exertion as possible with no sign of fatigue. Really your post is full of fail. It only seems you want to bash Gaara just to prove Fuujin is an idiot.


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## Starrk (Mar 22, 2009)

Gaara can control sand, not turn into like his opponents.

Crocodile can control sand, so wouldn't that mean he could just use the other's powers against them?


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## The World (Mar 22, 2009)

They all can control Sand, so it would just be all 3 of them struggling to control one another lulz. But i see Sandman just absorbing all the sand and killing everyone.


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## Onomatopoeia (Mar 22, 2009)

> It only seems you want to bash Gaara just to prove Fuujin is an idiot.



Can't imagine why, he's doing that pretty well on his own.


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## Fenton (Mar 22, 2009)

Roxxas said:


> They all can control Sand, so it would just be all 3 of them struggling to control one another lulz.



Until, you know, one of 'em tires out. :ho


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## ipakmann (Mar 22, 2009)

Roxxas said:


> I thought Sandman needed other sources of sand to make himself bigger, he doesn't create unlimited amounts of sand at all, he's only limited to the sand that makes up his body.
> 
> And we haven't even seen Gaara post-extraction so we have no idea the effect that Shukaku had on him.
> 
> ...





Blue yes 

red no 

Look when he was fight Diedara he  had unlimited resoruseces because they where in the *sand village  *yest he still lost. Why?  because after blocking the C4 he ran out of charkra and blew up. 

This thread is full of fail and Fuujin is a narutard that thinks Kyubbi would own fiction, and you sir are also a narutard for thinking that sage mode naruto would be durable enough to takes hits from OZ.


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## The World (Mar 22, 2009)

ipakmann said:


> Blue yes
> 
> red no
> 
> ...



He didn't run out of chakra at all lol, seriously do you read Naruto or just forget alot?
He tricked Gaara into paying attention to his village while he snaked bombs into his sand, from before when Gaara ripped off his arm and blew him up while in his globe of sand from the inside.


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## ipakmann (Mar 22, 2009)

Roxxas said:


> He didn't run out of chakra at all lol, seriously do you read Naruto or just forget alot?
> He tricked Gaara into paying attention to his village while he snaked bombs into his sand, from before when Gaara ripped off his arm and blew him up while in his globe of sand from the inside.




Well yea because he  sat there the entire time in one spot.  If Gaara was this almighty being of sand control you mark him out to be shouldn't he have known there were bombs in his sand since his Charkra is holding it all together any way?

But really his overall control is terrible he controls a lot of sand but is doesn't really do anything. I mean in every single one of his fights he has either lost or won on Tectnaclity    

Gaara vs lee 
TKO lee was exhausted 

Gaara vs kimimaru
TKO kimiararu sickness acted up and killed him

Gaara vsDeidada
lost 

Gaara vs naruto and Gamabunta
Lost by head butt


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