# WB vs Akainu.



## Yuki (Feb 4, 2015)

In this battle, Akainu has went to see WB and has gotten an audience. Akainu then shows WB Ace's head and say's to WB that Ace cried like a little baby asking for his daddy before his death at Akainu's hands. 

At this moment WB gets up, tells the rest of the crew to stay back very quietly (But they heard him.) and gets off his drip feeling 100%. 

Restrictions: Heart attack and Crew intervention. 
Distance: WB and Shanks's meeting.

The Moby Dick is unsinkable and is in a sea desert.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Feb 4, 2015)

Does Whitebeard still have previous injuries from the war?


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## Yuki (Feb 4, 2015)

King Itachi said:


> Does Whitebeard still have previous injuries from the war?



The war did not happen.

Ace was executed by Akainu before WB found out the Marines had him.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Feb 4, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> The war did not happen.
> 
> Ace was executed by Akainu before WB found out the Marines had him.



Ahh. Okay
In that case, Whitebeard defeats him with around moderate difficulty. 

Despite the handicaps he had at Marineford, he still ended up defeating Akainu - whether people like it or not - and the latter was essentially "fresh" for the most part. Per your rule, WB isn't suffering from heart attacks and would probably become instantly bloodlusted upon seeing this situation occur. At this distance, Whitebeard just runs forward to beat down Akainu with a combination of Haki-imbued bisento and Gura. I see him receiving little injuries in this type of confrontation.


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## Chrollo Lucilfer (Feb 4, 2015)

Whitebeard high  diff at worst.


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## Yuki (Feb 4, 2015)

For the person that down stared. -_-

If it was because of the Ace thing, i love Ace. I just want WB to be as blood lusted as he can possibly be in this match up.

I think in this match up, WB stomps. He would destroy half the world in his anger.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Feb 4, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> For the person that down stared. -_-
> 
> If it was because of the Ace thing, i love Ace. I just want WB to be as blood lusted as he can possibly be in this match up.
> 
> I think in this match up, WB stomps. He would destroy half the world in his anger.



I think WB would stomp if he played it smart and kept his distance. 
But Akainu is still one of the top tiers and can put up some kind of fight in CQC. 

Might even cause a little damage... Which is why I think it's mid-diff


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## Yuki (Feb 4, 2015)

King Itachi said:


> I think WB would stomp if he played it smart and kept his distance.
> But Akainu is still one of the top tiers and can put up some kind of fight in CQC.
> 
> Might even cause a little damage... Which is why I think it's mid-diff



As shown in MF, when pissed WB gives up all defense for unrelenting offence. Akainu would likely get in a very good one or two shots but this battle would not last long.


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## Sherlōck (Feb 4, 2015)

Are we wanking Yonko's again?


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## Deleted member 211714 (Feb 4, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> As shown in MF, when pissed WB gives up all defense for unrelenting offence. Akainu would likely get in a very good one or two shots but this battle would not last long.



Because Whitebeard is fresh in this battle, I don't think Akainu would get in some nasty attacks. His magma might cause surface burns on WB's skin, though. 

We shouldn't forget that Whitebeard isn't a normal man and even towers over the admirals in size. Therefore, the effect of certain attacks wouldn't be as detrimental, and his durability is also something else.

But yeah. The fight would last around one minute at most.


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## Amol (Feb 4, 2015)

Old WB who is not suffering from illness would High(low) diffs Akainu.
And you are a moron if you think Old WB is stomping or low diffing Akainu.
I would rather you don't give bad name to WB fans.


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## Yuki (Feb 4, 2015)

Amol said:


> Old WB who is not suffering from illness would High(low) diffs Akainu.
> And you are a moron if you think Old WB is stomping or low diffing Akainu.
> I would rather you don't give bad name to WB fans.



I said he would get in some nasty attacks. When i say stomp i mean his world would get rocked.

Idk another way to say it. A high diff stomping?


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## Deleted member 211714 (Feb 4, 2015)

Amol said:


> Old WB who is not suffering from illness would High(low) diffs Akainu.
> And you are a moron if you think Old WB is stomping or low diffing Akainu.
> I would rather you don't give bad name to WB fans.



We're basically referring to Old Whitebeard before Marineford in his meeting with Shanks.
Around that time, he was capable of using Haki without strain and didn't have injuries.

Assuming Whitebeard keeps his distance and plays it smart - which he probably won't do in bloodlust - I do think he's capable of stomping Akainu. We already witnessed him defeating Sakazuki in a disadvantageous state. 

Even though people complain about how WB got him from behind, the guy was taking shots from everyone throughout the war and still came out victorious. It also makes me wonder how pitiful Sakazuki's CoO really is.


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## Bernkastel (Feb 4, 2015)

Well even sick/stabbed WB with many other injuries was able to beat Akainu so he obviously wrecks now that he is fresh and bloodlusted from the get go.

WB diff will be between mid(high) diff and high(low).


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## TheWiggian (Feb 4, 2015)

WB high mid diff.


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## jNdee~ (Feb 4, 2015)

WB wins, but dies.

Just same.


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## jNdee~ (Feb 4, 2015)

holy shit, I just saw some guys say mid diff.


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## Amol (Feb 4, 2015)

jNdee~ said:


> WB wins, but dies.
> 
> Just same.



So healthy WB gets same fight as sick injured WB.
And he actually dies after beating Akainu?
What a load of bullshit.
Then again you are the same guy according to whom 
' Rayleigh who is a Swordsman and who hadn't touched his sword for 22 years was actually somehow gaining combat experience which allowed him to stalemate Kizaru in old age '.
I shouldn't be surprised.


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## Canute87 (Feb 4, 2015)

Mid difficulty


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## Freechoice (Feb 4, 2015)

high        diff


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## Goomoonryong (Feb 4, 2015)

WB wins high-very high diff, he's not coming out of this fight unscathed


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## Gibbs (Feb 4, 2015)

WB wins with less difficulty than he had at Marineford.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Feb 4, 2015)

Whitebeard high-extreme diff.


Bernkastel said:


> Well even sick/stabbed WB with many other injuries was able to beat Akainu


Whitebeard attacked when Akainu wasn't looking and still lost half his head (Whitebeard should have died right there if not for plot) because of it. And he didn't beat Akainu, the Admiral was still strong enough to keep fighting after Whitebeard's attacks.


Bernkastel said:


> so he obviously wrecks now that he is fresh and bloodlusted from the get go.


Didn't Aokiji (Akainu's near equal) gain a temporary edge over Whitebeard, despite having a DF disadvantage, when the WSM had only a single stab wound? At this point, I don't really think Whitebeard was strong enough to take out an Admiral or Emperor with just high diff.


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## DavyChan (Feb 4, 2015)

Whitebeard wins Mid Mid diff. People overistimate Akainu like no1's business


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## Orca (Feb 4, 2015)

WB/Shanks/Dragon beat Akainu high diff IMO.


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## Admiral Kizaru (Feb 4, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> Mid difficulty



WB stomps?
Less than a minute?
Mid difficulty?

Jesus fucking Christ. 

SH4L woz rite. The old generation are ridiculously overplayed on here. 


Whitebeard ofc wins. But it'll be no short of a high/extreme difficulty win for him. 

No where in the manga has it ever been implied that the gap is that big between Whitebeard and the other top tiers of the current generation.


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## Coruscation (Feb 4, 2015)

Whitebeard wins high difficulty. He'll still suffer from his sickness to some extent throughout the battle, no form of old Whitebeard can avoid that entirely. If he could he'd just be prime WB. But there won't be any random heart attacks and such and so he won't be taking any lethal injuries or be pushed to his very limits. That's what being the strongest man in the world is.


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## Bernkastel (Feb 4, 2015)

Issho said:


> Whitebeard attacked when Akainu wasn't looking and still lost half his head (Whitebeard should have died right there if not for plot) because of it. And he didn't beat Akainu, the Admiral was still strong enough to keep fighting after Whitebeard's attacks.



Iirc Akainu was left helpless after the earth shattered and just fell.Had WB persisted he could kill him.I won't go in plot arguments cause the whole MF reeked of plotshields.



> Didn't Aokiji (Akainu's near equal) gain a temporary edge over Whitebeard, despite having a DF disadvantage, when the WSM had only a single stab wound? At this point, I don't really think Whitebeard was strong enough to take out an Admiral or Emperor with just high diff.



Yeah he did but it was already mentioned by Marco that his reactions are weakened when Squardo stabbed him.
In this case though WB is bloodlusted w/o any injury and focused completely on the enemy.



> Whitebeard high-extreme diff.


So a non bloodlusted WB would lose to Akainu?cause in this match he is fresh and bloodlusted.


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## Raiden34 (Feb 4, 2015)

Shirohige mid difficulty.


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## Turrin (Feb 4, 2015)

So WB is old, but not sick/injured. If so than WB would probably take this with High (Mid) to High (low) diff. Mid diff is a bit too low of a estimate for me considering WB is still handicapped by age, and if Old-WB could even Mid (High) diff Akainu, than Prime-WB should be able to Low (High)  diff Akainu. And that puts potentially stronger characters like EOS Luffy, Roger, etc.. within the realm of Low (Mid), Low (Low), or outright Fodderizing Akainu, which doesn't seem right to me for the so far strongest Admiral and major antagonist that he has been portrayed as.

However if Old-WB High (Mid) or High (Low) diffs him, that would place Prime-WB around Mid (Mid) to Mid (Low) diffing him. And characters like Roger, Luffy, etc... are ether Mid (Low) to Low (High) diffing him, which the absolute most minimum estimate of Akainu's strength I could go for compared to the strongest at EOS.


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## Sherlōck (Feb 4, 2015)

Old Whitebeard vs MF Akainu = Whitebeard extreme difficulty.

Prime Whitebeard vs MF Akainu = Whitebeard High Difficulty.

Prime Whitebeard vs Post MF Akainu = Whitebeard extreme difficulty.


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## Admiral Kizaru (Feb 4, 2015)

Bernkastel said:


> Iirc Akainu was left helpless after the earth shattered and just fell.Had WB persisted he could kill him.I won't go in plot arguments cause the whole MF reeked of plotshields.



ehhh? You're desperately clutching for straws whilst ignoring the massive haystack right in front of you (I think that metaphor works here. )

_Had WB persisted he could have killed?_ ........ perhaps, but I really don't think at that stage WB was in any condition to defeat any proper top tier; he was too injured. The only reason he was even able to get at Sakazuki there and cause damage to him, was because he gained a significant advantage from attacking from behind when the latter was distracted with Luffy/Ace.

Besides, whilst speculating on whether WB could have killed him in that scenario, you're completely ignoring the fact that Sakazuki did kill him in that encounter. Even ignoring the myriad of injuries WB had suffered up to that point, that face removal attack would have been enough to kill him outright on it's own. It was fatal; there's no way WB could have survived that. It was only the extreme liberties Oda takes when it comes to bodily injuries and the need of WB to stay going a bit longer to give his speech and to deal with BB, that stopped him collapsing to the ground immediately. 

tl;dr - As you even allude to, that encounter was in no way reflective of what would have happen in an actual battle between the pair of them, which is why people who that to claim "lol Akainu stomped" are morons whose opinions should be discarded. 



Bernkastel said:


> So a non bloodlusted WB would lose to Akainu?cause in this match he is fresh and bloodlusted.



I really don't think "bloodlust" matters that much here. I don't think WB would be silly enough to hold back any power when fighting someone at the level of Akainu, bloodlusted or not. 

Moreover, what it'll mean is that he'll be more aggressive when attacking and may, like at the end of MF, be more open to sacrificing parts of his body to get clean hits in. Given's Sakazuki's lethality, this may actually be a net negative here.


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## Bernkastel (Feb 4, 2015)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> ehhh? You're desperately clutching for straws whilst ignoring the massive haystack right in front of you (I think that metaphor works here. )
> 
> _Had WB persisted he could have killed?_ ........ perhaps, but I really don't think at that stage WB was in any condition to defeat any proper top tier; he was too injured. The only reason he was even able to get at Sakazuki there and cause damage to him, was because he gained a significant advantage from attacking from behind when the latter was distracted with Luffy/Ace.
> 
> ...



I never said WB stomped in any of my statements(you propably meant "lol WB stomped").The only thing i said is that WB defeated Akainu in MF while injjured/sick which is what happened.The diff was certainly very high..WB clearly was able to survive Akainu's attack though.I agree that he shouldn't have but Oda propably wanted to highlight the monstrous strength/endurance of WB.

Note:For me very high diff mean higher than high but lower than extreme.A thin line between those.




> I really don't think "bloodlust" matters that much here. I don't think WB would be silly enough to hold back any power when fighting someone at the level of Akainu, bloodlusted or not.
> 
> Moreover, what it'll mean is that he'll be more aggressive when attacking and may, like at the end of MF, be more open to sacrificing parts of his body to get clean hits in. Given's Sakazuki's lethality, this may actually be a net negative here.



Maybe,maybe not..we can't be sure how the figh would go on.
It was shown in many occasions though that mentality of a character matters a lot in OP.WB certainly wasn't going all out before Ace's death.He was mocking Akainu calling him magma brat and looking down on him.


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## tanman (Feb 4, 2015)

Whitebeard wins, but let's not pretend that Akainu didn't tear off half of Whitebeard's face *by reflex*. This is going to be a very tough fight.


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## trance (Feb 4, 2015)

King Itachi said:


> Even though people complain about how WB got him from behind, the guy was taking shots from everyone throughout the war and still came out victorious. It also makes me wonder how pitiful Sakazuki's CoO really is.



A blindside is a blindside. Stop making excuses. Had Whitebeard come at Akainu directly, he could actually retaliate with his powers - as he canonically displayed - rather than being forced to tank Whitebeard's attacks wit his own body.

OT: With no heart attacks, Whitebeard takes this with high maybe very high difficulty. Whitebeard has more power and endurance but Sakazuki has the stamina advantage and isn't far behind Whitebeard in the aforementioned categories. Whitebeard should suffer rather noticeable damage but I wouldn't say anything life-threatening.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 4, 2015)

trance said:


> A blindside is a blindside. Stop making excuses. Had Whitebeard come at Akainu directly, he could actually retaliate with his powers - as he canonically displayed - rather than being forced to tank Whitebeard's attacks wit his own body.
> 
> OT: With no heart attacks, Whitebeard takes this with high maybe very high difficulty. Whitebeard has more power and* endurance but Sakazuki has the stamina advantage *and isn't far behind Whitebeard in the aforementioned categories. Whitebeard should suffer rather noticeable damage but I wouldn't say anything life-threatening.









Coruscation said:


> Whitebeard wins high difficulty. He'll still suffer from his sickness to some extent throughout the battle, no form of old Whitebeard can avoid that entirely. If he could he'd just be prime WB. But there won't be any random heart attacks and such and so he won't be taking any lethal injuries or be pushed to his very limits.* That's what being the strongest man in the world is*.



So Mihawk can High diff Shanks i agree.


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## 2Broken (Feb 4, 2015)

Match can go either way imo and whoever wins could potentially die from injuries.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Feb 4, 2015)

trance said:


> A blindside is a blindside. Stop making excuses. *Had Whitebeard come at Akainu directly, he could actually retaliate with his powers* - as he canonically displayed - rather than being forced to tank Whitebeard's attacks wit his own body.
> 
> OT: With no heart attacks, Whitebeard takes this with high maybe very high difficulty. Whitebeard has more power and endurance but Sakazuki has the stamina advantage and isn't far behind Whitebeard in the aforementioned categories. Whitebeard should suffer rather noticeable damage but I wouldn't say anything life-threatening.



To what extent, exactly?
It's safe to assume Whitebeard wouldn't just stand there to get hit by Meigou - if he gets Akainu on the ground in their confrontation - and I'd be willing to bet that Whitebeard's condition before the war is far less severe than what's in discussion. Even though WB did get the blindside attack, Sakazuki didn't even show the slightest indication of CoO. Unless one thinks he's too arrogant to think anyone can damage him in the war, there's really no explanation for his incompetence in that scene. 

Skilled users of Haki can use it nigh passively. 
Do you think he was too focused on killing Luffy to even notice the bigger problem: a bloodlusted monster who is wreaking havoc?

If Whitebeard fights with his bisento and actively uses CoO, I don't see him receiving much damage. He'd stomp if he keeps his distance through spamming, as Gura would break apart the magma and force Akainu to reform his body. During those intervals of time, Whitebeard can close the distance to land some Haki-imbued attacks. 

However, it's more than likely that WB and Akainu will try to blitz each other, and I'd give the healthier/uninjured version of Whitebeard the indefinite advantage in such a duel. He's physically stronger; likely has the same level of speed; will be able to use Haki without strain; doesn't get heart attacks in the middle of fights; has the fruit that's more destructive; and the guy has a bisento that augments his fighting style. Because of the illness he had, it appears that injuries worsened the detriment and made him substantially weaker.


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## Gohara (Feb 4, 2015)

Whitebeard wins with between low difficulty and mid difficulty.  As some others have said, despite having many disadvantages Whitebeard still bested Akainu with around high difficulty.  Without those disadvantages I don't see Whitebeard having any more than mid difficulty, and in this case he also doesn't have to worry about health issues.  So he should only be a little weaker than he was in his prime.



Issho said:


> the Admiral was still strong enough to keep fighting after Whitebeard's attacks.



Whitebeard was also still able to keep fighting after receiving the combined blows of Akainu and many other characters.



Issho said:


> Didn't Aokiji (Akainu's near equal) gain a temporary edge over Whitebeard, despite having a DF disadvantage, when the WSM had only a single stab wound?



No on at least two accounts, and likely no on the third account:

1. Aokiji froze Whitebeard's Bisento, but that doesn't necessarily mean he was going to gain an edge.

2. Aokiji doesn't really have a Devil Fruit disadvantage against Whitebeard other than his simply being weaker.

3. Whitebeard almost certainly had more than a stab wound from Squard.  He was stated to have been dealt many wounds by stabs, bullets, and cannon balls.  It's unlikely he only just started getting dealt blows by those that far into the war.  Whitebeard had also used his Devil Fruit abilities quite a bit up to that point, if I remember correctly.

It's also worth noting that even if you were correct on all of those accounts, nothing about it really suggests that old Whitebeard can't defeat Aokiji with any less than around high difficulty.



Bernkastel said:


> Akainu was left helpless after the earth shattered and just fell.Had WB persisted he could kill him.



Plus it wasn't really a surprise attack.  Akainu was verbally warned of Whitebeard's presence and had multiple panels between when he received that verbal warning and when Whitebeard attacked him.

I wouldn't worry about disagreements.  What you're saying is actually a lot more common of a opinion than some here are either aware of or willing to give credit for.


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## trance (Feb 4, 2015)

King Itachi said:


> To what extent, exactly?



Enough that Whitebeard would be at least somewhat hard-pressed to damage an attentive Akainu in a ranged game.



> Even though WB did get the blindside attack, Sakazuki didn't even show the slightest indication of CoO. Unless one thinks he's too arrogant to think anyone can damage him in the war, there's really no explanation for his incompetence in that scene.



Maybe a plot-hole or maybe Sakazuki simply doesn't have it. I mean, his hearing is acute enough to hear Whitebeard's ship coming up from the water _hundreds of meters below_ yet can't hear a 20-foot giant moving directly behind him?



> Do you think he was too focused on killing Luffy to even notice the bigger problem: a bloodlusted monster who is wreaking havoc



I think so. He disregarded Teach almost wiping out MarineFord to focus solely on Luffy despite Teach being an incomparably greater threat at the time.


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## rext1 (Feb 4, 2015)

If WB was truly WSM pre-TS than he takes this extreme-diff.

People keep bringing up the fact that the WB who "defeated" Sakazuki at MF was sick and dying. In an effort to support the hypothesis that a fresh(er) WB would have a significantly easier time.

However, an ambush is an ambush. When someone gets the drop on a distracted man - its not necessarily cause his stats are superior or he's a superior fighter. Because none of that is relevant in an ambush scenario. The only relevant info is that one man got a free shot on a distracted man.

So the denizens of this thread who scream that this would be a mid-diff fight for WB are not being intellectually honest.
If WB was actually capable of two-shotting Admirals in a fair fight - he had ample opportunity to do so all throughout MF arc! Why didnt he? Why is it that he was only able to do so after starting out with a cheapshot?
Is it mere coincidence that he was only able to 2-shot an Admiral after a cheapshot?

This whole WB was multiple tiers above Admirals is crap its pure, distilled BS-ass hattery.
And I think that as this manga moves forward, particularly as EOS nears this belief(alongside YONKO >> Admirals) will be systematically dismembered by Oda.


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## Kaiser (Feb 4, 2015)

This WB will take it mid difficulty, and yes i said mid difficulty. A dying WB almost Ko'd Akainu in 2 shots


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## Deleted member 211714 (Feb 4, 2015)

trance said:


> Enough that Whitebeard would be at least somewhat hard-pressed to damage an attentive Akainu in a ranged game.



Even if Whitebeard is fresh, uninjured and doesn't get heart attacks?
His sickness wouldn't even be the same burden.

This fight is completely fresh. 



> Maybe a plot-hole or maybe Sakazuki simply doesn't have it. I mean, his hearing is acute enough to hear Whitebeard's ship coming up from the water _hundreds of meters below_ yet can't hear a 20-foot giant moving directly behind him?



I think everyone can agree that the admirals have CoA and CoO, so I'm not sure if Akainu really lacks the ability. 
Perhaps he just doesn't have equal skill in the two types of Haki?

Sakazuki's BH seems to be quite powerful, but I can't say the same thing about his KH.
And yes, the fact that he heard the ship from that distance also troubled me a bit. Considering how Oda portrayed WB, I don't think the instance occurred because of plot. 

Akainu doesn't have that kind of portrayal.
What we see is this: Despite Akainu being hit with a blindside attack, he still gave an expression before the strike connected and didn't show any form of CoO in that moment. He landed an attack that couldn't take off WB's entire head, only to get hit by the subsequent attack directly after. 

The difference is, we actually know Whitebeard can use all three types of Haki. Marco stated that he used to have no problem avoiding strikes from allies and enemies alike. The moment at Marineford exemplifies his downfall, which is why I take any statements of WSM with a grain of salt. From what we had seen, WB was planning to die at Marineford, and Squardo's stab started that downward trend. His feats of Haki against Shanks are much better than what he had shown at Marineford, but his condition was seemingly better around then. Everything worsened with time and injuries, it seems. Possibly great exertion, too?

But he still had better portrayal than Akainu in their encounter. Although, I do think Aokiji had better portrayal than Whitebeard, but that's mainly due to the nature of his fruit. Sakazuki is able to negate much of that offense, so I don't think equivalency arguments make sense with some match-ups.



> I think so. He disregarded Teach almost wiping out MarineFord to focus solely on Luffy despite Teach being an incomparably greater threat at the time.



Like you said, one should feel the presence of Whitebeard in that situation. A giant, handicapped, bloodlusted man was located nearby and didn't seem to alert him. 

So tell me... Does Akainu have trouble balancing the importance of certain tasks?
It's clear that he's got some kind of issue using Haki at times, but he also might have priorities mixed up.


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## sanninme rikudo (Feb 4, 2015)

WB mid diff he was at a disadvantage when he mopped Akainu so i don't see how a fresh WB won't mop him quicker


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## trance (Feb 4, 2015)

King Itachi said:


> Even if Whitebeard is fresh, uninjured and doesn't get heart attacks?
> His sickness wouldn't even be the same burden.
> 
> This fight is completely fresh.



Perhaps so. I don't think Whitebeard lost a tremendous amount of power from his meeting with Shanks to his first clash against Sakazuki. I mean, he was still widely regarded as the strongest even then. Would he fare better? Yes but I don't think he could stomp/low-diff Akainu at all. Logically speaking, Akainu should have the clear edge in stamina - by virtue of being younger and still in his prime - and a seemingly casual magma fist could stalemate Whitebeard's equally casual quake punch. Is Whitebeard stronger than Akainu? Yes - IMO he is anyway - but matchups are important. 



> Perhaps he just doesn't have equal skill in the two types of Haki?



That's probably a fair assumption to make. Rayleigh did say that people tend to specialize in one form of Haki over another. From the way he's been portrayed, it seems Akainu's specialty is CoA - which aligns with his fighting style of being a strong and sturdy tank with an equally impressive offense, similar to Zoro.



> And yes, the fact that he heard the ship from that distance also troubled me a bit. Considering how Oda portrayed WB, I don't think the instance occurred because of plot.



You have to consider this; literally _seconds_ after that bout, Teach appears. You can't really have a final confrontation with your nemesis if you're having a prolonged battle with an Admiral. So, again, I'll re-iterate that I think Whitebeard is stronger but I do think he had some plot on his side.



> Like you said, one should feel the presence of Whitebeard in that situation. A giant, handicapped, bloodlusted man was located nearby and didn't seem to alert him.
> 
> So tell me... Does Akainu have trouble balancing the importance of certain tasks?
> It's clear that he's got some kind of issue using Haki at times, but he also might have priorities mixed up.



But again, his top priority was Luffy. Perhaps he figured Kuzan or Borsalino - who are just as combat capable as he is - would take care of Whitebeard. So, maybe negligence? I agree, it doesn't make Akainu look particularly good but I guess it should also exemplify just how focused he was on killing Luffy - who due to the intervention of Jinbe and the like, was starting to escape MarineFord.


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## Admiral Kizaru (Feb 4, 2015)

Bernkastel said:


> I never said WB stomped in any of my statements(you propably meant "lol WB stomped").The only thing i said is that WB defeated Akainu in MF while injjured/sick which is what happened.



tbf I wasn't specifically referring to you when I made that comment but the people who implied it in this thread. 



Bernkastel said:


> WB certainly wasn't going all out before Ace's death.He was mocking Akainu calling him magma brat and looking down on him.



Pure speculation followed by something completely irrelevant. 

How is him being disdainful of anyone not from the same era as him (had the same attitude towards Shanks and Kuzan) in any way indicative of the power he would use in a fight? Those things are not mutually exclusive. He may be condescending/disrespectful but that doesn't mean he's stupid. 

Look, there was zero indication at all that when Sakazuki and WB clashed in the plaza that he was holding back. You're frantically clutching at straws here. 



Gohara said:


> I wouldn't worry about disagreements.  What you're saying is actually a lot more common of a opinion than some here are either aware of or willing to give credit for.



So what? That doesn't make that viewpoint any less shit and wrong than it is. 

I hate saying this as it'll make me sound like a smug tosser but the majority of places on the net don't go as deep an analysis and examination of One Piece as we do on here which isn't necessarily a bad thing as they have better things to do with their lives. We microanalyse ever panel on here, compare translations, examine every single speech bubble etc etc ....... Possibly AP as well but they don't discuss powerlevels there. 

Most of what you're referring to are causal readers who are more fanboys who often are swayed by personal preferences and story depictions of characters. For example, they hate Sakazuki because he's the big bad evil who killed one of their favourite characters in Ace.



Kaiser said:


> This WB will take it mid difficulty, and yes i said mid difficulty. A dying WB almost Ko'd Akainu in 2 shots



Guess what would happen if you gave Sakazuki one free opening shot against Whitebeard with the former prepared to die to inflict as much damage as possible?

Guess what would happen if you gave Kuzan one free opening shot against Whitebeard with the former prepared to die to inflict as much damage as possible?

Repeat with any Admiral/Yonkou level figure. 

A bit disappointed tbh. I would expect that sort of lazy analysis from the moronic Youtube comment posting halfwits we have inhabiting this place but I did consider you a smart enough poster on here to appreciate the nuances of the last encounter between the pair of them to understand why that's a terrible thing to use to predict the outcome of a clean fight between the pair of them.


----------



## Yuki (Feb 4, 2015)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> Pure speculation followed by something completely irrelevant..



It's your Pure speculation that it's not the case as well. >_>

Whether he did or not is opinion based. Which is pure speculation.


----------



## Bohemian Knight (Feb 4, 2015)

Solid high diff


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## mykel23 (Feb 4, 2015)

High-Extreme diff for WB


----------



## trance (Feb 4, 2015)

Gohara said:


> I wouldn't worry about disagreements.  What you're saying is actually a lot more common of a opinion than some here are either aware of or willing to give credit for.



Appeal to popularity.


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Feb 5, 2015)

trance said:


> Perhaps so. I don't think Whitebeard lost a tremendous amount of power from his meeting with Shanks to his first clash against Sakazuki. I mean, he was still widely regarded as the strongest even then. Would he fare better? Yes but I don't think he could stomp/low-diff Akainu at all. Logically speaking, Akainu should have the clear edge in stamina - by virtue of being younger and still in his prime - and a seemingly casual magma fist could stalemate Whitebeard's equally casual quake punch. Is Whitebeard stronger than Akainu? Yes - IMO he is anyway - but matchups are important.



I only believe this version of WB can low-diff Akainu if he keeps his composure and plays from the distance. In this scenario, he's absolutely not going to choose that option, as we had already seen how he reacts while bloodlusted. Under normal circumstances, the fight is going to reach moderate difficulty in my eyes.

WB isn't going to have a struggle bringing down Akainu, but I do think he will get some injuries in the process; that's what brings the fight to mid-diff. And it's not like stamina even matters in a fight that's going to end after five shots at most (very generous). Yes, I do agree that Sakazuki holds such an advantage over Old Whitebeard, but we already saw what Whitebeard in bloodlust had done - whether he got the blindside attack or not - and he got pushed to high-very high difficulty in the end.

That's really not bad at all, as it's clear that WB had the greater disadvantage in their skirmish... if we even want to call the blindside attack something vastly disadvantageous for Akainu. We saw his verbal expression and lack of CoO on panel.



> That's probably a fair assumption to make. Rayleigh did say that people tend to specialize in one form of Haki over another. From the way he's been portrayed, it seems Akainu's specialty is CoA - which aligns with his fighting style of being a strong and sturdy tank with an equally impressive offense, similar to Zoro.



I agree.
I've never believed that the admirals are equal in every aspect; they're not equals to begin with. That was already proven upon finding out that Akainu is marginally superior to Aokiji. Regarding Kizaru, nothing suggests that he's closer to those two over Marco.

Akainu was always portrayed as the brutish combatant, and he has even shown some degree of BH. Quite a powerful representation, if you ask me... CoA would fit him quite well, in fact. I estimate that Kizaru is more skilled in CoO, while Aokiji tends to be the balance between them. 



> You have to consider this; literally _seconds_ after that bout, Teach appears. You can't really have a final confrontation with your nemesis if you're having a prolonged battle with an Admiral. So, again, I'll re-iterate that I think Whitebeard is stronger but I do think he had some plot on his side.



Of course plot wasn't on his side. The disparity between WB's great hindrances and Sakazuki getting hit with a blindside attack  - one that Akainu had given verbal expression of and didn't show CoO, mind you - is small enough to favor the old man tremendously. Even with the countless disadvantages the man had, he was getting in fights with fresh admirals and taking hits from endless amounts of marines in the war. You must not forget that WB *was* everyone's target; he was singled out and doesn't have a Logia to tank projectiles. I really can't say the same thing about the admirals, and none of the damage they received holds a candle to what their counterpart had gone through. If people keep on pulling the "plot" card, you might as well call Old WB a fodder. There comes a point when everything can't be plot-related deviation.

Do we call Akainu and Teach surviving WB's quake attacks plot-related occurrences? Nope.
If anything, that just shows how ridiculously durable the two of them are.

Even if major plot happened to be the answer: Do you think the disparity is enough to separate the gap between Akainu (fresh) and Whitebeard (fresh), with the possibly of the latter getting pushed to very high difficulty with noticeable injuries?

It really isn't... Certain Yonkou are just that strong, and we've even seen WB's subordinates contend with admiral-level opponents. 

The World Government have Shichibukai for a reason. 
FA + 3 Admirals is seemingly a type of parallel with 4 Emperors... People widely consider Old WB to be kingpin - which I completely disagree with, by the way - but he's decisively above FA Sengoku. Now we've got three emperors against three admirals. Personally, I think Shanks is quite a bit stronger than any of them, while Big Mom is weaker than everyone here. Kaidou should be marginally below both Akainu/Aokiji, but he'd still give either one very high-extreme difficulty.

So we've got two emperors that can defeat their opponent with around mid-diff at most; one emperor that can push either Akainu/Aokiji to very high-extreme difficulty or beat Kizaru with the same amount of difficulty; and one emperor that loses to every one of them, though she pushes them anywhere from high-extreme.

Even if Kaidou/Big Mom can only push two admirals to the lower end of high-diff, Shanks/Old WB (before Marineford) have more than enough individual power to close that gap between them. Either of them have portrayal that's above what the admirals have shown.

What's the reason for Shichibukai, then?
If WG has ample power with FA + 3 Admirals, there should be no need for Shichibukai to have balance against emperors. Battleships can always come beside them to face the remaining crew. The problem is, admirals are individually weaker than the likes of people like Shanks/Old WB, and they need the extra manpower from bribed pirates to keep the balance. Marco was portrayed to be an admiral-level opponent, even if some people want to believe he doesn't push them. 

Do you remember what a single emperor did at Marineford? Quite some damage for the group that's outnumbered and fighting within a location that's foreign to them...

But confrontation is always last resort for these parties, of course.



> But again, his top priority was Luffy. Perhaps he figured Kuzan or Borsalino - who are just as combat capable as he is - would take care of Whitebeard. So, maybe negligence? I agree, it doesn't make Akainu look particularly good but I guess it should also exemplify just how focused he was on killing Luffy - who due to the intervention of Jinbe and the like, was starting to escape MarineFord.



Yeah. His top priority was Luffy indeed, but he's one of the freaking admirals.
Do you see what I'm saying here? It doesn't look particularly good... Really doesn't

Even if one wants to argue that his indefinite focus was set on Luffy, a determined admiral was being held off for brief moments by Jinbei. 


I don't know, man. We all have our opinions. And I don't hate the admirals, btw. Kuzan is one of my favorite characters. I'm just curious as to why some people elevate their strength levels so high.


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## Gohara (Feb 5, 2015)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> So what? That doesn't make that viewpoint any less shit and wrong than it is.
> 
> I hate saying this as it'll make me sound like a smug tosser but the majority of places on the net don't go as deep an analysis and examination of One Piece as we do on here which isn't necessarily a bad thing as they have better things to do with their lives. We microanalyse ever panel on here, compare translations, examine every single speech bubble etc etc ....... Possibly AP as well but they don't discuss powerlevels there.
> 
> Most of what you're referring to are causal readers who are more fanboys who often are swayed by personal preferences and story depictions of characters. For example, they hate Sakazuki because he's the big bad evil who killed one of their favourite characters in Ace.



My point isn't to say the more people who agree with something the more correct it is.  Some were just borderline downing the person for his/her opinion, and some act as if such an opinion is in the minority.

As for the credibility of those who have the opinion, what you're saying here is very subjective.  Naturally you, who strongly disagrees with the opinion, is going to see the analysis of yours and those you agree with as superior to those you disagree with.  That's fine on it's own, although whether or not that is correct is subjective and certainly a debatable point.  Especially since several points have been brought up on the contrary that haven't really been properly addressed in every instance I've seen them brought up (for instance- basically every time I've asked who the Revolutionary and Yonkou Commanders, especially the top ones, are going to fight in the final war since the Admirals will be too powerful for them and the Shichibukai will likely be disbanded by that point- I have at best been given vague answers in some cases and flat out refused to have the question answered in some other cases).  Those who disagree can say the same thing you are here, and even putting my own opinions aside it will hold the same weight.  I also question whether most of these readers you speak of are truly just casual fans, since many of the ones I've seen with that opinion are as much of fans as anyone I've seen, to the point that quite a few of them actually annoyed me with how much they praised One Piece prior to myself becoming a fan.  I also haven't seen anyone with that opinion who has disliked Akainu.  To be fair, I don't know some of their opinions on his character, but I have seen many who love his character and have that opinion.



trance said:


> Appeal to popularity.



If I were saying their opinions are correct because many people think it, yes.  However, I'm not.  On the contrary I'm actually saying that because some on here act as if their views on Akainu and the Admirals is the majority opinion, which from my perspective is very strange because outside of this forum I'm use to seeing significantly more people who disagree with that opinion than agree with it.  I'm not saying that makes the opinion incorrect.  Just not as much of the majority opinion as some here may assume.  We can all only speak to our own experience.  To say and/or act like either opinion is the majority opinion objectively means that person must have been on every One Piece and Manga/Anime community on the internet and talked to the majority of One Piece fans in the world, which I very much doubt anyone here has.  The only substance our points have are on the merits of our reasoning.  If you want to simply say your reasoning is better, then prove why before you (not you specifically- I'm not saying you are) insult or down others for disagreeing


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## Kaiser (Feb 5, 2015)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> Guess what would happen if you gave Sakazuki one free opening shot against Whitebeard with the former prepared to die to inflict as much damage as possible?
> 
> Guess what would happen if you gave Kuzan one free opening shot against Whitebeard with the former prepared to die to inflict as much damage as possible?


A similar situation already happened when WB was having his heart attack on the floor and helpless and Akainu still couldn't take him out, and that was a already stabbed and weakened Whitebeard, mind you. This same Whitebeard who had difficulties to use haki properly, this same Whitebeard called pathetic and weak by Crocodile(of all people) compared to his former self because he couldn't counter Squardo(with Marco approving), this same Whitebeard who basically made a gauntlet with the marine HQ including all 3 admirals, ending in a worse state all that before clashing with Akainu. So basically a dying Whitebeard with the lowest reaction speed possible, difficulties in haki usage, still took him out after 2shots. Can you imagine what would have happened against a full healthy Whitebeard?



> A bit disappointed tbh. I would expect that sort of lazy analysis from the moronic Youtube comment posting halfwits we have inhabiting this place but I did consider you a smart enough poster on here to appreciate the nuances of the last encounter between the pair of them to understand why that's a terrible thing to use to predict the outcome of a clean fight between the pair of them.


I'm sorry but i'm just basing it on what i see. Let's not completely ignore the gravity of Whitebeard's state as well as the entire course of events and then complain about a yonkou overestimation/admiral downplay when i'm just interpretating what i saw in the manga

For the matter though, i don't rate Whitebeard as close as the other yonkous, I think he was just an exception


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## trance (Feb 5, 2015)

King Itachi said:


> I only believe this version of WB can low-diff Akainu if he keeps his composure and plays from the distance. In this scenario, he's absolutely not going to choose that option, as we had already seen how he reacts while bloodlusted. Under normal circumstances, the fight is going to reach moderate difficulty in my eyes.
> 
> WB isn't going to have a struggle bringing down Akainu, but I do think he will get some injuries in the process; that's what brings the fight to mid-diff. And it's not like stamina even matters in a fight that's going to end after five shots at most (very generous). Yes, I do agree that Sakazuki holds such an advantage over Old Whitebeard, but we already saw what Whitebeard in bloodlust had done - whether he got the blindside attack or not - and he got pushed to high-very high difficulty in the end.



I disagree Whitebeard would be able to overwhelm Sakazuki so easily. We have Sakazuki being able to match Whitebeard's shockwave with his own magma - which also carry an impressive level of concussive force as well. Sure, that was nowhere close to what Whitebeard can output but I think the same holds true for Sakazuki. 



> Of course plot wasn't on his side. The disparity between WB's great hindrances and Sakazuki getting hit with a blindside attack  - one that Akainu had given verbal expression of and didn't show CoO, mind you - is small enough to favor the old man tremendously. Even with the countless disadvantages the man had, he was getting in fights with fresh admirals and taking hits from endless amounts of marines in the war. You must not forget that WB *was* everyone's target; he was singled out and doesn't have a Logia to tank projectiles. I really can't say the same thing about the admirals, and none of the damage they received holds a candle to what their counterpart had gone through. If people keep on pulling the "plot" card, you might as well call Old WB a fodder. There comes a point when everything can't be plot-related deviation.



I was mostly talking about plot in that instance. From my point of view, Oda had to be careful to get rid of Sakazuki whilst at the same time without making him look _too_ weak or bad in comparison. He wanted both Whitebeard to be victorious and to set up for his final confrontation with Teach.



> Even if major plot happened to be the answer: Do you think the disparity is enough to separate the gap between Akainu (fresh) and Whitebeard (fresh), with the possibly of the latter getting pushed to very high difficulty with noticeable injuries?



I don't see why that's so unreasonable. Akainu is one incredibly strong friend. He has an absolutely monstrous portrayal that is only really beaten out by Shanks and Whitebeard himself.  Currently, he seems to be one of the frontrunners of the New Age - leading the Marines to a golden age never before seen along with his ascendancy to Fleet Admiral paralleled perfectly alongside Teach's usurpation of the empty Emperor seat and being described as the two greatest threats to Luffy.



> The World Government have Shichibukai for a reason.
> FA + 3 Admirals is seemingly a type of parallel with 4 Emperors... People widely consider Old WB to be kingpin - which I completely disagree with, by the way - but he's decisively above FA Sengoku. Now we've got three emperors against three admirals. Personally, I think Shanks is quite a bit stronger than any of them, while Big Mom is weaker than everyone here. Kaidou should be marginally below both Akainu/Aokiji, but he'd still give either one very high-extreme difficulty.
> 
> So we've got two emperors that can defeat their opponent with around mid-diff at most; one emperor that can push either Akainu/Aokiji to very high-extreme difficulty or beat Kizaru with the same amount of difficulty; and one emperor that loses to every one of them, though she pushes them anywhere from high-extreme.
> ...



One thing I think holds the Marines back is they have no ample fighters bar the Fleet Admiral, Admirals and someone like Garp. The Vice Admirals are strong but if they go up against Marco or Jozu - even with superior numbers - they're going to get mauled. This has been decisively portrayed against the likes of Doffy, Sabo, Law, Hancock and hell, even Bart. This gives them more fighters but are weaker in the long run. 

Taking the above into consideration is why I think the Warlords exist; to compensate for this notable lack of capable fighters. True enough, Mihawk is strong enough to stand alongside the Admirals, Doffy being able to toss around guys like Luffy or Law along with a multitude of hax from Hancock, Moriah and Law.



> Yeah. His top priority was Luffy indeed, but he's one of the freaking admirals.
> Do you see what I'm saying here? It doesn't look particularly good... Really doesn't
> 
> Even if one wants to argue that his indefinite focus was set on Luffy, a determined admiral was being held off for brief moments by Jinbei.



I already said it doesn't make Sakazuki look good. For all intents and purposes, it made him look borderline like a fool. Of course, based on what Luffy will become later on - the eventual Pirate King and strongest pirate in the world - I'd like to think his obsessive priority to kill Luffy above all else is at least a bit understandable.



> I don't know, man. We all have our opinions. And I don't hate the admirals, btw. Kuzan is one of my favorite characters. I'm just curious as to why some people elevate their strength levels so high.



It's because Admirals in general all possess a tremendous and respectable pool of strength that allows them to stand as some of the strongest beings in the world. Yet, among this crowd of monsters, it's Sakazuki who has made himself standout as extraordinary, with him portrayed against the Emperors rather than first/second mates like his comrades and even having an instance of hype that only Shanks has been known to have.


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## Bernkastel (Feb 5, 2015)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> tbf I wasn't specifically referring to you when I made that comment but the people who implied it in this thread.



Ok 


> Pure speculation followed by something completely irrelevant.
> 
> How is him being disdainful of anyone not from the same era as him (had the same attitude towards Shanks and Kuzan) in any way indicative of the power he would use in a fight? Those things are not mutually exclusive. He may be condescending/disrespectful but that doesn't mean he's stupid.
> 
> Look, there was zero indication at all that when Sakazuki and WB clashed in the plaza that he was holding back. You're frantically clutching at straws here.



I never said he was holding back against Akainu in the plazza as it was made crystal clear that WB was bloodlusted then. 

What i meant is that his attitude before Ace's death implied that he wasn't going all out/wasn't bloodlusted.I said that to show u the difference in the fights with Sakazuki and the rest of the admirals especially in Aokiji's case.Him calling him magma brat etc before Ace's execution clearly shows that WB was very cocky and confident with 0 intention of bloodlust.


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## Coruscation (Feb 5, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> So Mihawk can High diff Shanks i agree.



If Shanks wasn't an exception, I imagine he could.

A fight could still be high-extreme for the world's strongest I suppose but not extreme, and that would necessitate the person fighting them being the 2nd strongest... something I don't think Sakazuki is relative to Whitebeard, though he's not far from it. Someone like old Rayleigh could very well be the swordsman closest to Mihawk (besides the unique case of Shanks) though and I could see that fight being high-extreme, though also high.


----------



## jNdee~ (Feb 5, 2015)

Amol said:


> So healthy WB gets same fight as sick injured WB.
> And he actually dies after beating Akainu?
> What a load of bullshit.
> Then again you are the same guy according to whom
> ...



Psshhhhh, you always ignore the reasons I have stated. I shouldn't be surprised.

Are we really going back to the Rayleigh/Kiz argument? Back read my reasons, tell me if they're not a possibility.


----------



## jNdee~ (Feb 5, 2015)

Then again you're the guy who thinks Good guys will always be the strongest, nothing new.

and who's to be surprised? Everyone is stuck up in the Legend's generation again.

Pitiful.


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Feb 5, 2015)

Bernkastel said:


> What i meant is that his attitude before Ace's death implied that he wasn't going all out


What do you mean by this? If you mean that Whitebeard holding back his full power because of Ace, then that's true.

But the same can be said also about the Admirals, they were forced to hold back as well, Akainu even commented on it during his clash with Whitebeard, he was worried about damaging the area.


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## Bernkastel (Feb 5, 2015)

Issho said:


> What do you mean by this? If you mean that Whitebeard holding back his full power because of Ace, then that's true.
> 
> But the same can be said also about the Admirals, they were forced to hold back as well, Akainu even commented on it during his clash with Whitebeard, he was worried about damaging the area.



The whole bloodlust thing started cause Admiral Kizaru said that bloodlust wont matter much here. 
So i brought an example of how WB's condition and mindset matters a lot,seeing how after Ace's death WB left Akainu paralysed and unable to move after a few serious attacks(even though before he didn't connect with the other admirals).
Sure Sakazuki managed to take half his face but the fact that WB despite his grave condition,melted organs and half-face was still able to stand victorious still stands.


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Feb 5, 2015)

Bernkastel said:


> The whole bloodlust thing started cause Admiral Kizaru said that bloodlust wont matter much here.
> So i brought an example of how WB's condition and mindset matters a lot,seeing how after Ace's death WB left Akainu paralysed and unable to move


If Akainu were unable to move, he would have hit the water and drowned.


Bernkastel said:


> Sure Sakazuki managed to take half his face but the fact that WB despite his grave condition,melted organs and half-face was still able to stand victorious still stands.


Few problems though.
1.) Despite being able to damage Akainu, *Whitebeard still lost half his head*. Even if Whitebeard were completely fresh and uninjured, that blow alone would have been enough to kill him right there. It's only because of plot he was alive at that point.
2.) Akainu wasn't down for good, he got back up and kept fighting.
3.) Whitebeard was only able to hit Akainu in the first place due to sneaking up behind him, before that, they were fighting on even grounds. Oh and AK raised a good point here:


Admiral Kizaru said:


> Guess what would happen if you gave Sakazuki one free opening shot against Whitebeard with the former prepared to die to inflict as much damage as possible?
> 
> Guess what would happen if you gave Kuzan one free opening shot against Whitebeard with the former prepared to die to inflict as much damage as possible?
> 
> Repeat with any Admiral/Yonkou level figure.


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## Bernkastel (Feb 5, 2015)

Issho said:


> If Akainu were unable to move, he would have hit the water and drowned



Was there water down there?cause i dont remember any water just solid ground where he was standing.



> Few problems though.
> 1.) Despite being able to damage Akainu, *Whitebeard still lost half his head*. Even if Whitebeard were completely fresh and uninjured, that blow alone would have been enough to kill him right there. It's only because of plot he was alive at that point.



Maybe it was plot maybe it wasn't.It's not my place to question manga facts and it would be pointless to start such a debate.


> 2.) Akainu wasn't down for good, he got back up and kept fighting.



Sure but WB could have killed him if he pursued him.In this scenario if the same were to happen Akainu would fall to the ocean and die or WB would outright kill him.Akainu was just lucky there wasn't water down iirc.



> 3.) Whitebeard was only able to hit Akainu in the first place due to sneaking up behind him, before that, they were fighting on even grounds.



But in these fights especially between bloodlusted top-tiers,one is not allowed to let another sneak upon him.So either Akainu's CoO wasn't enough to notice him or his reactions were slower than WB's attack.I believe the latter since we can clearly see Akainu getting scared noticing WB was behind but still couldn't react.



> Guess what would happen if you gave Sakazuki one free opening shot against Whitebeard with the former prepared to die to inflict as much damage as possible?
> 
> Guess what would happen if you gave Kuzan one free opening shot against Whitebeard with the former prepared to die to inflict as much damage as possible?
> 
> Repeat with any Admiral/Yonkou level figure.



Depends on the lethality of the opponent. The C3 is extremely lethal so in those conditions they could kill him.Even Magellan could kill him given the chance.Point is that a fresh WB would be able to avoid it if he wasn't sick/injured.His reactions were hindered a lot as stated by Marco during the start of the war due to his illness.


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## Turrin (Feb 5, 2015)

Issho said:


> 1.) Despite being able to damage Akainu, *Whitebeard still lost half his head*. Even if Whitebeard were completely fresh and uninjured, that blow alone would have been enough to kill him right there. It's only because of plot he was alive at that point.


I think it's safe to say that WB would have evaded/block that attack or at the very least avoided being fatally injured if he was fresh. Marco commented on his reaction time dropping noticeably, just due to being separated from his IV-Drips for too long, and that was before being stabbed by Squard and even really joining the war. 

Additionally calling plot is also pointless as if the plot enables WB to live through that blow and keep fighting than he has the capability to do so. Though I agree the injury was fatal, however we can expect WB to be capable of continuing to fight despite a fatal injury, due to his display at Marine-Ford, whether it caused by plot or WB's own capabilities, doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things.



> Akainu wasn't down for good, he got back up and kept fighting.


Akainu delivered a Fatal wound while WB didn't, but WB's goal the moment Akainu went down was not to kill Akainu, but to allow his allies to retreat and than later teach BB a lesson. If WB's sole goal was to kill Akainu, there is little doubt that he would have succeeded since Akainu was left pretty much defenseless after the second blow. Basically if they carried that exchange to an ultimate conclusion, WB would have killed Akainu w/ successive attacks, but than passed away some time later from his injurie; basically mutual death.



> Whitebeard was only able to hit Akainu in the first place due to sneaking up behind him, before that, they were fighting on even grounds


WB got off a freei[sh] hit (Akainu was warned prior to the attack-landing) on Akainu, but Akainu had already gotten a free hit on WB due to him having a heart-attack:



What's worse Akainu had back up resulting in WB suffering even more free hits landed on him by other marines in that moment:


So at the very least things were equal going into that final exchange, if not Akainu being advantaged, in terms of damage both were able to deliver to each other due to various circumstances.

That's of course w/o getting into the passive handicaps of Old-Age, Sickness, and other injuries (such as Squard stabbing him through the chest), that WB was suffering from during that exchange, but I assume your referring to how WB with those disadvantages would have performed.



> Oh and AK raised a good point here:


We already saw Akainu get a free hit on WB, so we don't have to guess.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Feb 5, 2015)

Bernkastel said:


> Was there water down there?



Yup.


Bernkastel said:


> Maybe it was plot maybe it wasn't.


People can not live if they lose half their brains. If plot was switched off, Whitebeard would have died the moment Akainu took off half his head. That's the bitter truth.


Bernkastel said:


> Sure but WB could have killed him if he pursued him.


How do we know it?


Bernkastel said:


> But in these fights especially between bloodlusted top-tiers,one is not allowed to let another sneak upon him.


Which means there will be no ambushes or cheapshots, and Whitebeard will beat Akainu after a very hard battle.


Bernkastel said:


> So either Akainu's CoO wasn't enough to notice him or his reactions were slower than WB's attack.



His senses were good enough to notice ships approaching from underwater at a vast distance, yet he can't tell if there's a giant man right behind him?


Bernkastel said:


> I believe the latter since *we can clearly see Akainu getting scared noticing WB was behind* but still couldn't react.



Anime only. Didn't happen in the manga.


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## Bernkastel (Feb 5, 2015)

Issho said:


> Yup.
> 
> People can not live if they lose half their brains. If plot was switched off, Whitebeard would have died the moment Akainu took off half his head. That's the bitter truth.



People can't run at hypersonic speeds or break mountains with punches.That's why it's called fiction.WB managed to survive cause it's fiction.There are characters in other series who can revive themselves just by thinking they exist.



> How do we know it?



Well common sense.If someone is lying on the floor unable to move how could he avoid death if his pursuer wanted to kill him?



> Which means there will be no ambushes or cheapshots, and Whitebeard will beat Akainu after a very hard battle.
> 
> 
> His senses were good enough to notice ships approaching from underwater at a vast distance, yet he can't tell if there's a giant man right behind him?



Obviously they weren't..it was explicitly shown in the panel u sent that Akainu wasn't even aware of him.So his CoO wasn't good enough along with his reactions,since someone notified him of WB.

As Turrin said Akainu also got a much cheaper shot on WB but u never saw me using that as an argument.



> Anime only. Didn't happen in the manga.



Ah my mistake then.
Still why his CoO couldn't protect him? Propably cause his reactions were not high enough or his CoO wasn't enough to notice the hit.
Either way point still stands.He couldn't avoid the attack.In a fight u should expect anything and that includes sneak attacks etc.


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## Lord Melkor (Feb 5, 2015)

WB lower end of high difficulty.


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## Gohara (Feb 5, 2015)

Issho said:


> But the same can be said also about the Admirals, they were forced to hold back as well, Akainu even commented on it during his clash with Whitebeard, he was worried about damaging the area.



If you're referring to chapter 567, Akainu only says that Whitebeard will destroy Marineford.  He doesn't say anything about himself and/or the other Admirals doing that.



Bernkastel said:


> Depends on the lethality of the opponent. The C3 is extremely lethal so in those conditions they could kill him.Even Magellan could kill him given the chance.Point is that a fresh WB would be able to avoid it if he wasn't sick/injured.His reactions were hindered a lot as stated by Marco during the start of the war due to his illness.



Actually, I wouldn't even go that far.  Akainu did, in fact, have an opening when Whitebeard's illness was acting up.  Whitebeard took that blow, another blow from Akainu, and many other blows- including one or two from Kizaru- and yet was still capable of fighting.

Not that Whitebeard got a "free shot" at Akainu as, again, the latter was verbally warned of the former's presence and had multiple panels between when the former arrived and when the former attacked him.

Even Marco, who is below Yonkou level, received a free shot- if not multiple free shots- from Kizaru while his Devil Fruit was being negated and was still capable of fighting.

Aokiji also got a free shot on Doflamingo, who broke out of his technique without much of a problem.  Doflamingo isn't close to Old Whitebeard's league.

The Admirals' techniques are among some of the most powerful we've seen so far, but capable of taking out or even nearly taking out a Yonkou in one or two blows if given a free shot?  I'm not so sure.


----------



## trance (Feb 6, 2015)

Considering the extent of the _collateral_ damage down to Punk Hazard, I'd like to think the Admirals were holding back a fair bit of their maximum AoE output - which seems to constitute for a noticeable portion of their strength - at MarineFord.


----------



## HisMajestyMihawk (Feb 6, 2015)

If we look objectively at what happened, Akainu clearly won that fight

WB got a free shot to the back of the head and couldn't do significant damage. He later died from the wounds he got from Akainu (BB gang shooting was just the icing on the cake..he was already a dead man walking)

Akainu fought hand to hand against WB, full-on tanked 2 of WB's strongest hits, and survived. He later shown to be in good enough shape to solo WB pirates


----------



## Bernkastel (Feb 6, 2015)

Gohara said:


> Actually, I wouldn't even go that far.  Akainu did, in fact, have an opening when Whitebeard's illness was acting up.  Whitebeard took that blow, another blow from Akainu, and many other blows- including one or two from Kizaru- and yet was still capable of fighting.
> 
> Not that Whitebeard got a "free shot" at Akainu as, again, the latter was verbally warned of the former's presence and had multiple panels between when the former arrived and when the former attacked him.
> 
> ...



It all depends on the intent.If said character aims for vital organs such as the head,then i don't see WB surviving since especially the C3 has great lethality.

I agree on the free shots example you post.

WB's attack wasn't even a free shot imo..Akainu was warned and if he had the necessary reactions and speed he could avoid it.He simply couldn't.

Just like Robin.She was warned/noticed with CoO Hakuba and reacted accordingly.


----------



## Sherlōck (Feb 6, 2015)

Bernkastel said:


> Just like Robin.She was warned/noticed with CoO Hakuba and reacted accordingly.


----------



## Pirao (Feb 6, 2015)

WB isn't winning with any less than high diff.


----------



## RF (Feb 9, 2015)

Whitebeard high difficulty but decisively and without any even remotely lethal injuries.

Lmao at either way.


----------



## Great Potato (Feb 9, 2015)

So is this battle supposed to take place on Whitebeard's ship? If that's the case then it ends with the Moby Dick getting destroyed and both of them drowning, though Whitebeard has a fishman on his crew, so I guess that would be his victory.


----------



## Tenma (Feb 9, 2015)

Most high ranking marines seem competent in Rokushiki. I wouldn't be surprised if Akainu could use Geppou.


----------



## trance (Feb 9, 2015)

I don't think it's a matter of _if_ he can use "Geppou" but whether _would_ he use it. He hasn't exactly demonstrated an agile and reflexive fighting style. In fact, he's been portrayed as the exact opposite - being a strong tank with an equally strong offense.


----------



## Tenma (Feb 10, 2015)

I think if it came down to a choice between drowning (once the Moby Dick shatters to bits) and doing some air jumps Akainu would choose the latter.


----------



## Captain Altintop (Feb 10, 2015)

WB still high diffs if both are bloodlusted in this case.

Akainu was caught off guard at MF, don't forget this.


----------



## Yuki (Feb 11, 2015)

Captain Altintop said:


> WB still high diffs if both are bloodlusted in this case.
> 
> Akainu was caught off guard at MF, don't forget this.



I really hope you and everyone else that says Akainu was caught off guard by WB really hope what you're saying.

If someone in a war zone can get caught off guard by the worlds strongest man which they know is behind them, then that person is not even close to as strong as everyone thinks he is. 

Sorry, but no mid top tier is going to get caught of guard by someone they know fine well is behind them and is going to be pissed.

It's even worse because Akainu even had warning of WB before WB attacked AND acknowledged the warning. 

No one with as much experience as an admiral should ever get caught of guard in a war zone by someone considered the worlds strongest man. 

If he really was, then i guess i need to reconsider where i put him in my own tier list. And the other admirals along with him as he is the strongest one.

Either he just got owned by WB, or he lacks the reactions to deal with a sick, wounded and old whitebeard even though he had prior warning of his attack.

Either one is not good.


----------



## trance (Feb 12, 2015)

Whitebeard was literally a microsecond away from smashing Akainu's head into the pavement and all of his focus was on Luffy. Exactly _what_ did you expect Akainu to do in that instance?


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Feb 12, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> I really hope you and everyone else that says Akainu was caught off guard by WB really hope what you're saying.
> 
> If someone in a war zone can get caught off guard by the worlds strongest man which they know is behind them, then that person is not even close to as strong as everyone thinks he is.





Issho said:


> His senses were good enough to notice ships approaching from underwater at a vast distance, yet he can't tell if there's a giant man right behind him?


Did you miss this or something?


Juvia. said:


> Either he just got owned by WB



Whitebeard losing *HALF HIS HEAD* even after he get a free shot, and even that wasn't enough to keep Akainu down, was Whitebeard owning him? Cool story man, tell me more.

Seriously, Akainu was fighting on even grounds with Whitebeard beforehand. Would things have gone differently if Whitebeard weren't sick and stabbed (btw Whitebeard took a few hundred stabs so I doubt Squard's stab affected him that much)? Sure, but it wouldn't be by a large amount.


----------



## HisMajestyMihawk (Feb 12, 2015)

Issho said:


> Did you miss this or something?
> 
> 
> Whitebeard losing *HALF HIS HEAD* even after he get a free shot, and even that wasn't enough to keep Akainu down, was Whitebeard owning him? Cool story man, tell me more.
> ...



Ditto here

Akainu performed more favourably in their encounters than WB did, considering the damage dealt vs damage received


----------



## Sherlōck (Feb 12, 2015)

Hey Jozu lost to Aokiji. But he was distracted so that doesn't mean anything.

Marco got cuffed by a VA. But he was distracted so that doesn't mean anything either.

Akainu got hit by Whitebeard. But he was distracted. Who gives a shit? He had to notice Whitebead & hadn't get caught  off guard. That weaksauce Akainu.

I don't have a joke here. I am merely stating what some people say.


----------



## Admiral Kizaru (Feb 12, 2015)

Bernkastel said:


> I never said he was holding back against Akainu in the plazza as it was made crystal clear that WB was bloodlusted then.
> 
> What i meant is that his attitude before Ace's death implied that he wasn't going all out/wasn't bloodlusted.I said that to show u the difference in the fights with Sakazuki and the rest of the admirals especially in Aokiji's case.Him calling him magma brat etc before Ace's execution clearly shows that WB was very cocky and confident with 0 intention of bloodlust.



Yes you never outright stated that but you raised it as an issue when trying to build up evidence to suggest that WB was holding back. Ergo, you're implying that's some how relevant and worth considering. Don't be one of these people that heavily implies and insinuates something in a post then runs away from it when called out on it, crying "strawman" in the process. 

Correct, I agree he wasn't bloodlusted prior to Ace's death but yet again you're not addressing my previous point here, but why are you assuming it is only in a bloodlusted state that WB would use 100% force in a clash against a fighter of Admiral calibre? 



Trance said:


> Whitebeard was literally a microsecond away from smashing Akainu's head into the pavement and all of his focus was on Luffy. Exactly _what_ did you expect Akainu to do in that instance?



Re reading those chapters it's more likely Marco and Vista that Sakazuki was distracted with at that moment (remember they tried and failed to attack Sakazuki after he killed Ace), which makes Juvia's post even more ridiculous then it already is. 

And even if you buy into the rather silly argument that Sakazuki should have anticipated WB's blindside attack, it still doesn't negate the consequences of it - WB had an opportunity to inflict major damage via a free hit thus *heavily *skewing that clash in his favour.



Sherlōck said:


> Hey Jozu lost to Aokiji. But he was distracted so that doesn't mean anything.
> 
> Marco got cuffed by a VA. But he was distracted so that doesn't mean anything either.
> 
> ...



Yeah this. 

CoO was pretty much all over the place during MF - Oda was heavily inconsistent with it, though I suppose he could attribute it to the chaos of a war environment with hundreds of people around. 

Either way, trying to diminish Sakazuki's CoO based on that is plain absurd.


----------



## Venom (Feb 12, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> I really hope you and everyone else that says Akainu was caught off guard by WB really hope what you're saying.
> 
> If someone in a war zone can get caught off guard by the worlds strongest man which they know is behind them, then that person is not even close to as strong as everyone thinks he is.
> 
> ...



Vista also intercepted Mihawk without Mihawk predicting it.
Now are you telling me that Mihawk has shit CoO?
Issho didn't predict the flying slash from Zoro coming at him.
Issho has bad CoO?
Jozu got caught off guard by Aokiji.
Marco got handcuffed by Strawberry ffs.
He got intercepted by Garp's punch.
Your argument is bullshit.
Just sayin that and leaving.


----------



## Luke (Feb 12, 2015)

Marco got handcuffed by Onigumo, not Strawberry.

Zolo you goddamn moron


----------



## Venom (Feb 12, 2015)

Luke said:


> Marco got handcuffed by Onigumo, not Strawberry.
> 
> Zolo you goddamn moron



Shut the fuck up Luke


----------



## Bernkastel (Feb 12, 2015)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> Yes you never outright stated that but you raised it as an issue when trying to build up evidence to suggest that WB was holding back. Ergo, you're implying that's some how relevant and worth considering. Don't be one of these people that heavily implies and insinuates something in a post then runs away from it when called out on it, crying "strawman" in the process..



No you just misunderstood.I never said or even hinted that WB was holding back against Akainu after Ace's death.He was holding back before that though.And ofc it's relevant and worth considering if one is bloodlusted or not.


----------



## Yuki (Feb 12, 2015)

Sherlōck said:


> Hey Jozu lost to Aokiji. But he was distracted so that doesn't mean anything.
> 
> Marco got cuffed by a VA. But he was distracted so that doesn't mean anything either.
> 
> ...



They were distracted and of course it means a lot. Anyone who says other wise are baka. They had admirals in front of them and turned their backs on them to look to their captain. 

This was clearly a plot move and a dumb one. 

Also yea, i admit that Akainu didn't get nearly as much time to react as i remembered. (Checked last night AFTER my post.) I blame the anime, i watched the war last after i read it and have not been back to it since.


----------



## Admiral Kizaru (Feb 12, 2015)

Bernkastel said:


> No you just misunderstood.I never said or even hinted that WB was holding back against Akainu after Ace's death.*He was holding back before that though*.And ofc it's relevant and worth considering if one is bloodlusted or not.



And the bit in bold is what I disagree with. 

They were desperately trying to save Ace from the marines who had the opportunity to kill him at any moment they wanted to. Sakazuki was literally standing in his way and preventing him from reaching the platform with Ace on it. They subsequently clashed and neither one was able to overpower the other. Whitebeard was unable to move forward to reach Ace and Sakazuki was unable to move Whitebeard out of the plaza. 

Don't you think considering the circumstances and imminent need to save Ace it would have been silly for WB to hold back his power then?


----------



## Bernkastel (Feb 12, 2015)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> And the bit in bold is what I disagree with.
> 
> They were desperately trying to save Ace from the marines who had the opportunity to kill him at any moment they wanted to. Sakazuki was literally standing in his way and preventing him from reaching the platform with Ace on it. They subsequently clashed and neither one was able to overpower the other. Whitebeard was unable to move forward to reach Ace and Sakazuki was unable to move Whitebeard out of the plaza.
> 
> Don't you think considering the circumstances and imminent need to save Ace it would have been silly for WB to hold back his power then?



Ace still had time before the execution though so WB would prefer to think calmly since he knew his powers would sink MF if he was careless.Iirc when Ace died the whole MF was about to be destroyed by his attacks.


----------



## barreltheif (Feb 12, 2015)

Akainu was caught off guard by WB. WB came up behind him and hit him.
Aokiji was caught off guard by Marco. Marco came from the side without Aokiji knowing, and kicked him.
WB was caught off guard by Squardo. WB did not realize Squardo intended to attack him.
Marco was caught off guard by Onigumo. He didn't realize Onigumo was there, waiting to cuff him.

Jozu did *not *get caught off guard by Aokiji. Jozu was in the middle of a fight with Aokiji, he turned around, and he got hit. 
Jozu did *not *get caught off guard by Doflamingo. Doflamingo was an enemy who was directly in front of Jozu.
Doflamingo did *not* get caught off guard by Aokiji. Doflamingo knew Aokiji was right behind him.

You guys need to understand this distinction.


----------



## trance (Feb 13, 2015)

Bernkastel said:


> Ace still had time before the execution though so WB would prefer to think calmly since he knew his powers would sink MF if he was careless.Iirc when Ace died the whole MF was about to be destroyed by his attacks.



Considering the desolate state of Punk Hazard left from collateral damage from Sakazuki and Kuzan's fight, I think it's fair to say that the Admirals withheld a reasonable fraction of their highest AoE output as well in the War. Not to mention, MarineFord is _substantially_ smaller than Punk Hazard and unlike the latter - a deserted wasteland where the aforementioned two Admirals could fight completely unhindered - MarineFord is of significantly greater importance and relevance to them, as it is their primary base of operations and stronghold.


----------



## Bernkastel (Feb 13, 2015)

Trance said:


> Considering the desolate state of Punk Hazard left from collateral damage from Sakazuki and Kuzan's fight, I think it's fair to say that the Admirals withheld a reasonable fraction of their highest AoE output as well in the War. Not to mention, MarineFord is _substantially_ smaller than Punk Hazard and unlike the latter - a deserted wasteland where the aforementioned two Admirals could fight completely unhindered - MarineFord is of significantly greater importance and relevance to them, as it is their primary base of operations and stronghold.



But in the case of Punk Hazzard it was the combined effort of the two and didn't happen instantly but over the couse of 10 days. 

Don't misunderstand me i'm not saying that they went all out in MF but they were more unrestricted than WB.They had the field advantage and could use it to their own benefit such as when they raised the walls and Akainu rained magma fists upon the whole WB allies. 
Iirc when WB used one of strongest attacks all 3 admirals were needed to stop it with their haki.


----------



## Gohara (Feb 13, 2015)

Sherlōck said:


> Hey Jozu lost to Aokiji. But he was distracted so that doesn't mean anything.
> 
> Marco got cuffed by a VA. But he was distracted so that doesn't mean anything either.
> 
> ...



Jozu and Marco didn't get verbal warnings and multiple panels to react like Akainu did at the time.  Also, that reasoning goes both ways.  If you exclude Aokiji's surprise blow then Jozu fights on par with an Admiral.  If you include it then you rightfully have to include what you're referring to as a surprise blow on Akainu.


----------



## Tenma (Feb 13, 2015)

Gohara said:


> Jozu and Marco didn't get verbal warnings and multiple panels to react like Akainu did at the time.  Also, that reasoning goes both ways.  If you exclude Aokiji's surprise blow then Jozu fights on par with an Admiral.  If you include it then you rightfully have to include what you're referring to as a surprise blow on Akainu.



Pretty sure most people consider Aokiji>Jozu and WB>Akainu. Besides, Aakinu actually managed to fight back post sneak attack and more importantly was not overly hindered by 2 of Whitebeard's strongest attacks, while Jozu got legit KO'd for the rest of the war.


----------



## Canute87 (Feb 13, 2015)

Whitebeard wankers be tripping.


I remember when people thought prime whitebeard could take all three admirals.

Man  nice to see evolution at work.


----------



## trance (Feb 13, 2015)

Bernkastel said:


> But in the case of Punk Hazzard it was the combined effort of the two and didn't happen instantly but over the couse of 10 days.



That was because they were the ultimate counter to each other. A nigh-unstoppable force of destruction met with opposition by an equally powerful force of destruction. Imagine if either of them was on Punk Hazard alone and unleashed their maximum AoE output? The devastation would be _significantly_ greater without another power to counteract it. This is not even considering that the sheer magnitude of the destruction caused on Punk Hazard was simple backlash energy.



> They had the field advantage and could use it to their own benefit such as when they raised the walls and Akainu rained magma fists upon the whole WB allies.



And honestly, that would've been enough to handily dispatch Whitebeard, his crew and his assortment of allies. Even Whitebeard proved unable to penetrate the siege wall's defenses. Had it not been for a simple miscalculation - Oars Jr. - that would've been game, set, match.



> iirc when WB used one of strongest attacks all 3 admirals were needed to stop it with their haki.



To completely divert the shockwave away from Ace - their primary objective. It's not like the attack was so powerful that one Admiral couldn't counter all by their lonesome. Them using a collaboration tactic was simply more beneficial for them. Akainu has aptly demonstrated being able to disperse Whitebeard's quakes with his own power.


----------



## Gohara (Feb 13, 2015)

Tenma said:


> Pretty sure most people consider Aokiji>Jozu and WB>Akainu. Besides, Aakinu actually managed to fight back post sneak attack and more importantly was not overly hindered by 2 of Whitebeard's strongest attacks, while Jozu got legit KO'd for the rest of the war.



While I do agree that Aokiji is more powerful than Jozu, I think they're in the same league as excluding Aokiji's surprise blow they fight on par with each other, and I doubt that Jozu is much weaker than Marco.  I'm not actually saying that Whitebeard does land a surprise blow on Akainu, since the latter was verbally warned and given multiple panels in between when the former lands and when the former lands a blow on the latter.  On the other hand Jozu doesn't get that, so it is a surprise blow in that scenario.  I'm just saying that since some do think of the blow Whitebeard lands Akainu as a surprise blow, then they can rightfully only exclude that blow if they also exclude Aokiji's surprise blow on Jozu, in which case Jozu fights on par with Aokiji.  That's my main point here.


----------



## Admiral Kizaru (Feb 13, 2015)

Bernkastel said:


> Ace still had time before the execution though so WB would prefer to think calmly since he knew his powers would sink MF if he was careless.Iirc when Ace died the whole MF was about to be destroyed by his attacks.



1) Time before the execution?

Dude did you miss the fact that Sengoku basically said fuck it to the official execution time and even had tried to execute Ace before WB even managed to get into the plaza (Crocodile saved him). 

They had no time to spare.

2) You seem to be mixing up going all out to destroy a setting (MF here) to fighting with a specific opponent. They are not the same thing.

What I'm arguing for is that at the moment he first clashed with Sakazuki at the plaza (link - ) he wasn't holding back the force of his attacks, because of the reason I listed in my previous post (he desperately needed to get to Ace). 




Gohara said:


> Jozu and Marco didn't get verbal warnings and *multiple panels *to react like Akainu did at the time.



This is such a desperate tactic to prop up your ridiculous viewpoint. 

It's like you deliberately completely ignored Trance's post on this. Whitebeard's arm was literally a millisecond away from making contact when Sakazuki received this so called "verbal warning". 

It's like if someone was standing less then half a metre behind you with a loaded gun pointed straight at your back, gave you a warning just as he pulled the trigger. The height of stupidity to think that makes a difference. 

Even Juvia, who shares your moronic views on this overall topic, conceeded this point, yet here you are still making it.


----------



## Canute87 (Feb 13, 2015)

In before "In my opinion"


----------



## Bernkastel (Feb 14, 2015)

Trance said:


> That was because they were the ultimate counter to each other. A nigh-unstoppable force of destruction met with opposition by an equally powerful force of destruction. Imagine if either of them was on Punk Hazard alone and unleashed their maximum AoE output? The devastation would be _significantly_ greater without another power to counteract it. This is not even considering that the sheer magnitude of the destruction caused on Punk Hazard was simple backlash energy.



The effects were indeed devastating but WB's sheer power was able to wreck the whole MF with just a few attacks.Imagine WB fighting for 10 days on PH.The island wouldn't even exist anymore.I'm not saying they dont have great destructive powers it's just that WB has greater.



> And honestly, that would've been enough to handily dispatch Whitebeard, his crew and his assortment of allies. Even Whitebeard proved unable to penetrate the siege wall's defenses. Had it not been for a simple miscalculation - Oars Jr. - that would've been game, set, match.



Yeah propably they would have died there but what i wanted to point out was that Akainu was more unrestricted than WB due to field advantage.


----------



## Bernkastel (Feb 14, 2015)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> 1) Time before the execution?
> 
> Dude did you miss the fact that Sengoku basically said fuck it to the official execution time and even had tried to execute Ace before WB even managed to get into the plaza (Crocodile saved him).
> 
> ...



Him being serious and determined =/= going all out/bloodlusted without fear of the consequences though. A guy who taunts Akainu by saying "try and protect it" with a laugh on his face is anything but bloodlusted. I agree though with the time thing.He didn't have time anymore.I barely remembmer details from MF.


----------



## IchijiNijiSanji (Feb 14, 2015)

The ship sinks and they both die. It's a tie.


----------



## Yuki (Feb 14, 2015)

IijiNijiSanji said:


> The ship sinks and they both die. It's a tie.



Check again.


----------



## Bernkastel (Feb 14, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> Check again.


----------



## IchijiNijiSanji (Feb 14, 2015)

Bernkastel said:


>



I know right?! And here I thought we could finally have an interesting fight, but NOOOO!!!


----------



## Bernkastel (Feb 14, 2015)

IijiNijiSanji said:


> I know right?! And here I thought we could finally have an interesting fight, but NOOOO!!!



OP is trolling us


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Feb 14, 2015)

Bernkastel said:


> The effects were indeed devastating but WB's sheer power was able to wreck the whole MF with just a few attacks.Imagine WB fighting for 10 days on PH.The island wouldn't even exist anymore.


FFS, the Admirals wrecked PH as a side effect of their battle, do you seriously think that it would take them that long to wipe out the island themselves?


Bernkastel said:


> Yeah propably they would have died there but what i wanted to point out was that Akainu was more unrestricted than WB due to field advantage.



*Spoiler*: __ 







The only time Akainu had less restrictions than Whitebeard was when they had the WB Pirates trapped in the bay, after that, Whitebeard was destroying Marineford with every other move, Akainu was under pressure to keep collateral damage down.


Bernkastel said:


> Him being serious and determined =/= going all out/bloodlusted without fear of the consequences though.


And the same thing can be said about the Admirals. Btw, when Whitebeard was bloodlusted and was prepared to die in order to kill Akainu, it cost him *HALF HIS HEAD* and Akainu still got back up and kept fighting.

OT: I stand by what I said, I don't really think Whitebeard in his old age was strong enough to take an Admiral or Emperor out with just high diff anymore, so he wins high-extreme diff.


----------



## Raiden34 (Feb 14, 2015)

Without Squardo's stab, Whitebeard kills Akainu everytime, with the stab he would kill him again.


----------



## Bernkastel (Feb 14, 2015)

Issho said:


> FFS, the Admirals wrecked PH as a side effect of their battle, do you seriously think that it would take them that long to wipe out the island themselves?



They would surely need more time than WB but no i don't think it would take that long.



> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ok still doesn't change the fact WB wasn't bloodlusted before Ace's death.Yeah Akainu wasn't going all out either i never said he was.The whole argument started cause someone said that bloodlust won't make much of a difference here so i brought up how WB's mindset was before and after the execution and that it mattered.




> And the same thing can be said about the Admirals. Btw, when Whitebeard was bloodlusted and was prepared to die in order to kill Akainu, it cost him *HALF HIS HEAD* and Akainu still got back up and kept fighting.



He got back up cause WB lost him while he was falling.If WB continued he'd be dead.



> OT: I stand by what I said, I don't really think Whitebeard in his old age was strong enough to take an Admiral or Emperor out with just high diff anymore, so he wins high-extreme diff.



Ok fair enough.Agree to disagree then as i believe he can.


----------



## Dark (Feb 14, 2015)

Whitebeard wins high difficulty.


----------



## Gohara (Feb 14, 2015)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> This is such a desperate tactic to prop up your ridiculous viewpoint.



Aside from that being an easy response anyone can say to any reasoning one uses to back up points they disagree with, being a tactic implies I came up with it just to counter reasoning backing up a point I disagree with and that my views on the Admirals' level of power is dependent on that point.  I've been consistent in bringing that point up, and my views on the Admirals' level of power isn't dependent on that point, so with all due respect I'll need more than your word (especially since we disagree on that topic a lot) to agree that it's a tactic.



Admiral Kizaru said:


> It's like you deliberately completely ignored Trance's post on this. Whitebeard's arm was literally a millisecond away from making contact when Sakazuki received this so called "verbal warning".



If you mean the one where he claimed only a millisecond passes by from when Whitebeard lands and when he lands a blow on Akainu or something to that effect, I didn't ignore it.  I just didn't respond to it because there's nothing backing up that claim.  Regardless of how much time you want me to agree passed during that, there are multiple panels between them, and not just multiple panels but in one of them a dialogue box with around a handful of dots which indicates a pause.



Admiral Kizaru said:


> It's like if someone was standing less then half a metre behind you with a loaded gun pointed straight at your back, gave you a warning just as he pulled the trigger. The height of stupidity to think that makes a difference.



A more accurate comparison would be if someone had their fist ready to strike you, but you were given a verbal warning and multiple panels worth to react before the person actually strikes you.  That scenario is more like what happened, and gives you more time to react than the scenario you're bringing up.

Some who disagree say that surprise blows don't matter in the Jozu vs. Aokiji fight and therefore it counts as a legitimate victory for Aokiji.  Even supposing you are correct, either Jozu fights on par with Aokiji or that blow Whitebeard lands on Akainu isn't a surprise blow.



Admiral Kizaru said:


> Even Juvia, who shares your moronic views on this overall topic, conceeded this point, yet here you are still making it.



Whether or not Juvia actually concedes that point isn't really relevant, but he didn't actually state that he concedes it.  He just said he admits Akainu has less time to react than he initially remembered as he was thinking of the Anime scene where he may have even more time to react than he does in the Manga.  He doesn't state that he has no time to react as you're suggesting here, although I can't rightfully speak for him and it's possible he does think that.


----------



## Coruscation (Feb 14, 2015)

Gohara said:
			
		

> you were given a verbal warning and *multiple panels worth to react* before the person actually strikes you.



You... know that panels aren't actually real things, right?


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## Gohara (Feb 14, 2015)

My apologies for the confusion, but I don't mean literal panels.


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## Coruscation (Feb 14, 2015)

Then your response to AK makes no sense because he was talking about real-life measures of time. You can't respond to that with a fictional measurement of time (panels, which aren't really measures of time anyway).


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## Gohara (Feb 14, 2015)

He didn't specify a time, but if we estimated the time he is attempting to pass off then it would be significantly less than .01 seconds.  In that case I could say 1 second and that would still be much more time than the time he gave in that scenario.  Hence it shouldn't really matter if I give a specific time.


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## Dellinger (Feb 14, 2015)

I like how Gohara stil brings the multiple panel shit again and again even though it doesn't exist


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## Gohara (Feb 14, 2015)




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## Dellinger (Feb 14, 2015)

What does that even mean?Also you only get 2 panels.WB being mad and the reason he is mad.It doesn't have to do shit with how much time Akainu had to react.


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## Gohara (Feb 14, 2015)

Multiple just means more than one.  So that there are two fits within what I said.

I don't see how describing what the panels shows disagrees with my point that there are multiple panels between them, and we already know that Whitebeard is angry and why even prior to those panels.  They are between when Whitebeard lands and when he lands a blow on Akainu.  There are also around a handful of dots in a dialogue box.


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## Captain Altintop (Feb 14, 2015)

Without any sneak attacks or illness in a fair 1v1, WB would high diff MF Akainu. (Luffy vs Sanji like).


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Feb 14, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> Check once more.



Sigh... fine.



> Akainu then shows WB Ace's head and say's to WB that Ace cried like a little baby asking for his daddy before his death at Akainu's hands.
> 
> At this moment WB gets up, tells the rest of the crew to stay back very quietly (But they heard him.) and gets off his drip feeling 100%.



Akainu provoked WB, so he'd be in a blood lust. But I presume Akainu deliberately wanted to provoke WB to make him extra angry. So this was part of the strategy where Akainu provokes WB to the degree he makes a mistake and charges the Admiral which allows him to land a critical hit right off the bat.
Sort of like how Law landed the injection shot on Doflamingo by provoking him, and making him lose his poise.

This leads to WB's eventual demise. Akainu wins, high-extreme diff, but more on extreme diff side.



Bernkastel said:


> OP is trolling us



Emma Stone!


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## trance (Feb 14, 2015)

Bernkastel said:


> The effects were indeed devastating but WB's sheer power was able to wreck the whole MF with just a few attacks.Imagine WB fighting for 10 days on PH.The island wouldn't even exist anymore.I'm not saying they dont have great destructive powers it's just that WB has greater.



It's not like they were trying to sink or wipe out Punk Hazard anyway. They were simply taking advantage of its deserted and abandoned state and even then, the residual backlash energy twisted it into an anomaly that left several beings awestruck.

I agree that Whitebeard's Devil Fruit has more destructive potential - courtesy of its hype of being able to send the world spiraling into oblivion - but I disagree that he held back anymore than the Admirals.



> Yeah propably they would have died there but what i wanted to point out was that Akainu was more unrestricted than WB due to field advantage.



But again, why would they willingly unleash their maximum AoE output right on top of their freaking headquarters? It would've be been wiped off the face of the earth.


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## Bernkastel (Feb 15, 2015)

Trance said:


> It's not like they were trying to sink or wipe out Punk Hazard anyway. They were simply taking advantage of its deserted and abandoned state and even then, the residual backlash energy twisted it into an anomaly that left several beings awestruck.
> 
> I agree that Whitebeard's Devil Fruit has more destructive potential - courtesy of its hype of being able to send the world spiraling into oblivion - but I disagree that he held back anymore than the Admirals.
> 
> But again, why would they willingly unleash their maximum AoE output right on top of their freaking headquarters? It would've be been wiped off the face of the earth.



The admiral's attacks can be more concentrated though.WB didn't have that luxury.With every attack he was bound to risk the lives of his crew.

Light kicks/lasers,Magma fists and variations of freezing attacks can be as lethal as any of their huge AoE. For example Akainu needed only one well placed fist inside WB to deal fatal damamge.Thus why i think the admirals were less restricted.

I'm of the opinion that the Admirals are more lethal and less destructive than WB who is more destructive and less lethal.

Anyway i think we can agree that both parties were held back in MF and leave aside who did more cause this is really going in : "Whos was more restricted than the other" and there's no point in that.


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## jNdee~ (Feb 15, 2015)

welps, that's not true at all. When WB delivered the island splitter, he only quaked one side, and it didn't affect his crew. Well, that's just an assumption, but it is not impossible because if it also affected the other side, then the ships' position should've been affected too.

I think WB didn't held back. He can be more destructive but i think it would take more time for him to land the attack. Same when he did the World tilt. He took more time doing gestures.


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## Sherlōck (Feb 15, 2015)

Bernkastel said:


> The admiral's attacks can be more concentrated though.WB didn't have that luxury.With every attack he was bound to risk the lives of his crew.



That's not totally true. His subordinates understand his power & .


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