# Guts (berserk) vs Deneve (Claymore)



## Oceania (Mar 11, 2011)

Its been awhile since I made a thread so here it goes!!!!!

Guts


VS

Deneve


Both are bloodlusted
Guts has full use of Berserk armor
Battle takes blace in a heavily forest area. Who wins!


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## willyvereb (Mar 11, 2011)

While I admit that Guts is the better character by far but he still doesn't have the speed to compete with Claymores. Worse you picked the regenerators of the Ghosts. She can flash-regenerate from almost anything save decapitation or outright blowing her up. To add she wields two swords at the length of Guts' Dragonslayer. Guts starts with hefty of disadvantages.


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## Oceania (Mar 11, 2011)

willyvereb said:


> While I admit that Guts is the better character by far but he still doesn't have the speed to compete with Claymores. Worse you picked the regenerators of the Ghosts. She can flash-regenerate from almost anything save decapitation or outright blowing her up. To add she wields two swords at the length of Guts' Dragonslayer. Guts starts with hefty of disadvantages.



Some valid points.... hince is why the battle takes place in a heavily forested area. Its supposed to limit the movements of both characters swords. Maybe I should add that guts can use his other weapons aswell.  I like Guts more aswell but Deneve does have some good qualities about her too.


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## Red (Mar 12, 2011)

Off topic: Is that the absolutely best picture you could find of Deneve? 

On topic: I'm siding with Deneve. I do think that Berserk Armor Gutts can keep up and go toe to toe with Deneve but since is a regenerator and Gutt's Berserk armor hurts hm over time, I'd say that Deneve wins by out lasting him with more stamina.


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## willyvereb (Mar 12, 2011)

So...suddenly Guts became hypersonic? That's quite new to me.
Deneve and the rest of the Ghosts are so fast that even single digit Claymores can't follow their movements.


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## Blade (Mar 12, 2011)

Guts with Berserk Armor can be dangerous for Deneve, but his main disadvantage is his speed level. Deneve is easily much faster than him and along with her high level regeneration, she can win with low-mid difficulty.


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## Red (Mar 13, 2011)

willyvereb said:


> So...suddenly Guts became hypersonic? That's quite new to me.
> Deneve and the rest of the Ghosts are so fast that even single digit Claymores can't follow their movements.


Deneve has no speed feats.


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## Oceania (Mar 14, 2011)

Red said:


> Deneve has no speed feats.



If anything she way stronger than berserk armor guts!


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## Berserkhawk z (Mar 14, 2011)

FormerAbyssalone said:


> If anything she way stronger than berserk armor guts!



Based on what strength feats?

Also wrong section.


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## Devil Kings (Mar 14, 2011)

Red said:


> Deneve has no speed feats.



She on par with Clare.


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## Crimson King (Mar 14, 2011)

Berserkhawk z said:


> Based on what strength feats?
> 
> Also wrong section.



Based on her casually killing Awakened Beings.


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## Red (Mar 14, 2011)

Devil Kings said:


> She on par with Clare.


Only in foot speed, which isn't supersonic.


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## willyvereb (Mar 15, 2011)

LoL, are you reading the same manga Red?
Claymores are accepted to be well above supersonic levels since quite some time ago. Better, few chapters back the Ghosts moved so fast that even the single digit Claymore couldn't see their fight. We also have Clare who can outrun a pissed off Riful and those are all for Claymores without even seriously releasing their Youki.
Deneve is the member of the 7 Ghosts. You can bet she's in the hypersonic range.


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## Red (Mar 15, 2011)

willyvereb said:


> Claymores are accepted to be well above supersonic levels since quite some time ago.


 There are no concrete supersonic movement feats with the exception of Maria who can keep up and block the quicksword.



> Better, few chapters back the Ghosts moved so fast that even the single digit Claymore couldn't see their fight.


Single digits of the present era have no speed feats of any kind.



> We also have Clare who can outrun a pissed off Riful and those are all for Claymores without even seriously releasing their Youki.


I remember the chapter, but I'm pretty sure Riful wasn't moving at full speed.

IIRC it was a wooded area and Clare suppressed her youki and dodged between to foliage so of cource Riful wasn't moving at her fastest.



> Deneve is the member of the 7 Ghosts. You can bet she's in the hypersonic range.


I disagree. Maria's the only confirmed person who can move hyper-sonically on the account of how she can block each of Clare's windcutter/quicksword attacks.

I agree that the claymore universe is around hypersonic in reaction time with the top tiers being hypersonic and the high tiers being supersonic (The force behind a lot of the Yoma's pierce attacks equal that of a bullet). But when it comes to foot speed the only person I've seen on-panel feats is Maria and arguably Rigald and those two have been stated to be THE FASTEST that aren't Abymsal. 

I will remain unconvinced until I see on-panel feats of Deneve crossing swords with Maria and not getting blitzed, or they state it or there's a calc. 

On the other hand, Gutts fought the Slug Duke who's attacks were similar in speed to Quick Sword and the Transonic moth girl. Gutts has solid feats that put him pretty close to transonic while people just assume Deneve is hypersonic because she's part of Team Ghost.


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Mar 15, 2011)

What strength did deneve show? Are we granting that she can awaken in thsi fight or use a higher percent of youki in a fight than she may have shown? berserker armor guts should still be physically stronger regardless. And that's even hand-waving generic typical single digit raw power. The fight  pretty much comes down to some shitty speed debate of if Guts is fast enough to hit her. Berserker armor Guts should at least be supersonic in reaction time though....


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## willyvereb (Mar 16, 2011)

Deneve can cut clean through stone and able to easily defeat the heavy armor of the Awakened Beings. Although I agree that Guts has better strength feats. Still, it's not like Deneve doesn't have the power to harm Guts so that notion is kind of meaningless. Deneve wields two swords at the same length as Guts' Dragon Slayer and can effectively regenerate mid-combat. So don't whine me. Deneve has more than just speed advantage on Guts.

@Red: Clarre as the supposedly weakest Claymore had faster than eye feats even back in the Rabona arc(prior to her half-awakening). There are also many feats that are unquantifiable but high when it matters for the Claymore's movement. By the way Deneve Helen and Clare managed to run away from Priscilla in her awakened form. I guess I don't need to explain how fast Priscilla really is.
The supersonic to hypersonic category on the wiki is really old. New feats proved that the Ghosts are indeed in the hypersonic range. Although certain numbers are unknown.
EDIT: By the way you misspelled Miria. She isn't Maria even though it would sound better.


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## hcheng02 (Mar 17, 2011)

willyvereb said:


> Deneve can cut clean through stone and able to easily defeat the heavy armor of the Awakened Beings. Although I agree that Guts has better strength feats. Still, it's not like Deneve doesn't have the power to harm Guts so that notion is kind of meaningless. Deneve wields two swords at the same length as Guts' Dragon Slayer and can effectively regenerate mid-combat. So don't whine me. Deneve has more than just speed advantage on Guts.
> 
> @Red: Clarre as the supposedly weakest Claymore had faster than eye feats even back in the Rabona arc(prior to her half-awakening). There are also many feats that are unquantifiable but high when it matters for the Claymore's movement. By the way Deneve Helen and Clare managed to run away from Priscilla in her awakened form. I guess I don't need to explain how fast Priscilla really is.
> The supersonic to hypersonic category on the wiki is really old. New feats proved that the Ghosts are indeed in the hypersonic range. Although certain numbers are unknown.
> EDIT: By the way you misspelled Miria. She isn't Maria even though it would sound better.



How do we know that Deneve and all those Claymores have supersonic foot speed? I can understand them having supersonic reflexes and arm movements but what feats make you think that they can run that fast? 

I recall Theresa being unable to catch up to a bunch of horses in her flashback and she was a number one.


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## Oceania (Mar 17, 2011)

Yes I considered the fact that Deneve has two swords that are nearly as big as Guts's dragonslayer. That is why the battle takes place in a very heavily forested area. Makes it more difficult for both combatants! 

On the Teresa speed.... Remember she wasnt using any yoki when trying to catch up to those bandits.


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## willyvereb (Mar 17, 2011)

hcheng02 said:


> I recall Theresa being unable to catch up to a bunch of horses in her flashback and she was a number one.



Outlier?

Riful travelled at least an entire mile in less than a second.
Yet Priscilla blitzed her from huge distances.
On the same note the Ghosts managed to run away from Priscilla chasing them. Despite she was in her awakened form, unlike against Riful.


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## hcheng02 (Mar 17, 2011)

willyvereb said:


> Outlier?
> 
> *Riful travelled at least an entire mile in less than a second.*
> Yet Priscilla blitzed her from huge distances.
> On the same note the Ghosts managed to run away from Priscilla chasing them. Despite she was in her awakened form, unlike against Riful.



When did this happen?

Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but didn't the Ghosts get away because of a headstart since Priscilla was distracted by Riful and Gauf? I do believe that once Priscilla actually started to chase them, she was managing to catch up pretty quickly.


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## willyvereb (Mar 17, 2011)

Back in the Witch's Maw arc. She literally disappeared from both Clare and Galatea's sensing range.
Also even if the Claymores got a little headstart, they didn't get blitzed. Unlike Riful who got blitzed from roughly miles of distance by a human-form Priscilla.


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## hcheng02 (Mar 17, 2011)

willyvereb said:


> Back in the Witch's Maw arc. She literally disappeared from both Clare and Galatea's sensing range.
> Also even if the Claymores got a little headstart, they didn't get blitzed. Unlike Riful who got blitzed from roughly miles of distance by a human-form Priscilla.



IIRC Riful was barely standing when Priscilla got to her. Wasn't Riful already exhausted from fighting Alicia and Beth as well as the Abyssal Feeders? (I think she might have fought some Destroyer Spawn too, its been a while.) I don't think Priscilla's performance against Riful can give clear indication of how fast she was. 

I don't think one can say that the Claymores are faster than Priscilla just because they weren't blitzed with a massive head start. Especially since they were noting that they were steadily losing ground - in short Priscilla would technically be going faster then they were in order to catch up to them.


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## willyvereb (Mar 17, 2011)

Indeed, but blitzing even a normal human from miles is considered to be isnane feat. Now Pirscilla did it to an Abyssal One. Being weakened or not.
Also I never mentioned Claymores being faster than Priscilla. But the fact they didn't get instantly blitzed is more than enough to clarify them as hypersonic in speed. By the way they did get far away from Priscilla in a short notice. Also she even noted how surprisingly fast the Ghosts are.


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## Oceania (Mar 17, 2011)

Well the good thing is we know that this fight won't end in Sex!


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