# Dr Manhattan vs Discord



## Galo de Lion (Mar 20, 2014)

Both of them get overhyped by fanboys, so I thought this could make battle. Who wins? Personally I think the doctor does.


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## Louis Cyphre (Mar 20, 2014)

TTGL said:


> Both of them get overhyped by fanboys


Pot, meet Kettle.


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## Neruc (Mar 20, 2014)

TTGL said:


> Both of them get overhyped by fanboys, so I thought this could make battle.



Why not add Demonbane too then? 

To make it more fair


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 20, 2014)

when Ozymandias "exploded" Manhattan and Doc reformed himself - what happened there exactly ? did he just ~destroy/blow up his body into tiny atomic/sub-atomic bits ? or he competely ~erased all constituent particles without a trace ? if it's the former, then Discord wins, if it's the latter then their general reality warping powers won't work on each other


that leaves either a stalemate or other hax to consider .. teleport BFR won't work on either .. Discord via powerscaling can also make inter-dimensional/inter-universal portals for BFR (one broke the fourth wall (in another thread it was decided that this counts for this kind of thing, since beyond there is a different reality/space from the main one ), another led into an alternate universe) .. also time dump in the past (Doc could see time fluidly and such, but I don't recall him actually time travelling .. although he might have in the prequel comics) .. there's some mindfuck too


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## Bioness (Mar 20, 2014)

Doctor Manhattan can alter the past, which is how he ended up creating all those parallel universes, he later reversed the changes in the past unmaking all those universes.


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## Gone (Mar 20, 2014)

I really need to read the Watchmen prequels.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 20, 2014)

yeah, i've seen some of those prequel comic scans, but most around here didn't buy universal-level Manhattan  


Discord should also have much higher reactions, unless those Watchmen prequels have some great speed feats


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## Gone (Mar 20, 2014)

Fluttershy said:


> yeah, i've seen some of those prequel comic scans, but most around here didn't buy universal-level Manhattan



Depends on how well liked or hated the person he's up against is 

To answer your previous question, the machine destroyed the Doc's "intrinsic field" which is a made up concept. I got the impression that it just sort o fbroke his atoms apart.


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## willyvereb (Mar 20, 2014)

Watchmen prequel is apparently considered canon, whether Alan Moore likes it or not.
So I think we can shelf the distrust regarding it.
This is like denying EU just because somebody only liked the original movies (or too salty to accept the feats occouring in those).


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## Vivi Ornitier (Mar 20, 2014)

The doctor gave up his power after erasing all those multiverses in Before Watchmen iirc.


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## Gone (Mar 20, 2014)

willyvereb said:


> Watchmen prequels are apparently considered canon, whether Alan Moore likes it or not.
> So I think we can shelf the distrust regarding it.



Not to relaunch this whole debate again, but don't think taking the word of the creator of a fiction over the arbitrary word of the company that technically owns the legal rights to it is that out of line.


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## Vivi Ornitier (Mar 20, 2014)

Manhattan circa the prequel comics solos MLP
Without Before Watchmen he, uh... stalemate?


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## Bioness (Mar 20, 2014)

Fluttershy said:


> yeah, i've seen some of those prequel comic scans, but most around here didn't buy universal-level Manhattan



And people don't buy star level My Little Pony characters so I guess you're even 

Although no one so far has claimed he is universal level, just that his direct actions can cause new universes to be born as well as unborn.

I'm curious, can Discord survive having his body atomized?


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## Vivi Ornitier (Mar 20, 2014)

Can Discord even survive/regenerate from Dr. Manhattan atomizing him?


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## Bioness (Mar 20, 2014)

I really need to read new posts before I edit my own.


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## Volt manta (Mar 20, 2014)

ClassicGameGuys said:


> Can Discord even survive/regenerate from Dr. Manhattan atomizing him?



On the subject of Discord, it's...extremely unlikely that Discord can be defeated by physical means. Since he's capable of pulling off his own head and other body parts without discomfort, it's more likely he's spiritual in nature. That DOES NOT mean he can't be beaten(hate MLP wanking), he's a minisery of chaos, not the source; saying he he can't be beaten because he's composed of chaos is like saying that Silver Surfer can't be beaten because he's a child of the power cosmic. Don't do it.
edit: the EOH seems to act like a molecular stasis lock on Discord, does Dr.Manhattan have anything similar to that?


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## Bioness (Mar 20, 2014)

Volt manta said:


> On the subject of Discord, it's...extremely unlikely that Discord can be defeated by physical means. Since he's capable of pulling off his own head and other body parts without discomfort, it's more likely he's spiritual in nature.



Wait...what?

Do you know what atomized means? He won't be chopped into pieces, hell he won't even break apart Logia style, he'll be individual atoms or even less than that!

You know who else can survive having their head loped off?

This bitch.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Mar 20, 2014)

Actually, she can't.


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## Volt manta (Mar 20, 2014)

Bioness said:


> Wait...what?
> 
> Do you know what atomized means? He won't be chopped into pieces, hell he won't even break apart Logia style, he'll be individual atoms or even less than that!



If he's not attached to a physical body, then atomization is useless; he can just pull himself back together after the fact. He's been shown to have control over parts of his body even when they're not attached to him, he obviously has some form of molecular control. Actually, sometimes he's not even a part of the physical plane, since he's able to move through mirrors easily enough, so atomization...ain't gonna cut it.
editclassicgameguys, turns out we've got a multiversal threat in the MLP universe...not sure if that statement still stands


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 21, 2014)

well, first of all atomization does not bypass durability, believe it or not (it's just hella energetic), so it would need to be able to overcome his first


second, yeah he could, he has done all sorts of crazy shit to his own body or even made new bodies/existed outside of it


plus, with a speed advantage he'd get to attack first


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## Volt manta (Mar 21, 2014)

In the MLP comic #16, they reveal the bookworm, who's capable of devouring actual physical universes located in books. Twilight and co have to travel through these universes in order to stop him, and do so just before he eats Applejack,Fluttershy, Spike, and the fictional Daring Do, who are located in the real world. It's also worth noting that it's an entire race, and they can create these universes as well.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 21, 2014)

i don't believe you, but i'll check it out


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## Volt manta (Mar 21, 2014)

You cold as hell, Fluttershy.
...But then again, if you believed anything just based off words alone, I suppose we'd be MovieCodec.
#15 is actually where the story starts, might wanna check that one first.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 21, 2014)

yeah, I know what the comics arcs are, I just need to catch up at some point


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 21, 2014)

this page :







Volt manta said:


> In the MLP comic #16, they reveal the bookworm, who's capable of devouring actual physical universes located in books. Twilight and co have to travel through these universes in order to stop him, and do so just before he eats Applejack,Fluttershy, Spike, and the fictional Daring Do, who are located in the real world. It's also worth noting that it's an entire race, and they can create these universes as well.


well, you might be onto something 

worm ate/erased more then one story/world/universe (and nearly erased one of the main characters in the process)





I find it hard to believe that the worm can compare to Discord, but who knows 



besides that, those 2 issues also showcase another magic spell -  transporting stuff between the main universe and the ~reality/realities of stories .. used mostly by the worm, but also cast by Twilight .. that's one more way then for Discord to BFR the good Doctor here 

might as well post this too :



> creating bubble reality aka many different new places/scenarios/worlds inside that bubble



> this is one of them, space and all




so that's 2 potentially world/reality/universal level feats here - 1 erasing for the worm and 1 creating for Discord




^ the stuff is mostly compiled here, for now the biggest thing it's missing is the the calc for their FTL magic (which has been reacted to/dodged/evaded)




P.S. this thread has been most productive


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## Volt manta (Mar 21, 2014)

It would seem like he has at least a little control over the real world, unless Pinkie Pie's hoof being restored was coincidence. (although said universal ranking should count much in the same vein as Digimon and Megaman Starforce, anyway.)The last page also seems to suggest that they can write these books as well, or at least restore them if they already exist.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 21, 2014)

yep, his erasing affected Pinkie and later he went into the main verse, brought all "escapees" back into their respective worlds after simultaneously restoring/remaking all of them … and each is a separate reality/world as Twilight stated, same as the one(s) that got erased earlier … which technically makes this a multiversal feat 


and what do you mean by Digimon ?  digital world "counts" the same as a real one, same as the stories worlds here


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## Volt manta (Mar 21, 2014)

Just wanted to make sure, checking since story book universes are more sketchy than internet universes. And you're right, despite certain "setbacks", this has been a productive thread. We never did answer the actual question, though.


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## Vivi Ornitier (Mar 21, 2014)

Since when does Mega Man Star Force have universe busting feats? I think you mean Battle Network


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## Volt manta (Mar 21, 2014)

Yeah, that, thanks. As far as Discord goes, Dr Manhattan ends up BFR'd somewhere. Dr Manhattan can't do anything unless he's capable of erasing him cosmic style or freezing his molecules EOH style


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## Vivi Ornitier (Mar 22, 2014)

Last I checked Dr. Manhattan was an omnipresent form of energy, he just sends physical avatars of himself to interact with stuff. Not really possible to bfr him.


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## Bioness (Mar 22, 2014)

Pretty sure Doctor Manhattan isn't getting a Battlefield Removal defeat here, or did you forget the whole multiverse thing? As in how would he be able to know what is happening in those other universes.


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## Volt manta (Mar 22, 2014)

So it's a stalemate?


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## Vivi Ornitier (Mar 22, 2014)

Well with Before Watchmen feats he could effortlessly solo the verse
Otherwise, not sure since I have good taste do not watch My Little Pony.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 22, 2014)

what _Before Watchmen_ feats were those again ? Bioness said something about altering past events or something - what does that mean again and how would it get used in a match ? and don't forget that a character below Discord now has a multiversal feat  (actually that character is just one of an entire race of such creatures)





> Pretty sure Doctor Manhattan isn't getting a Battlefield Removal defeat here, or did you forget the whole multiverse thing?


what multiverse thing ? idk about the prequel (you need to explain to me exactly ), but from the original/movie I basically recall these significant abilities from the Doc

1) blowing stuff up (like he did to Rorschach), seems to be atomization or something (which does not bypass durability)
2) surviving and putting himself back together after getting the same treatment as in 1) .. but this doesn't protect from getting straight erased without a trace
3) seeing time fluidly, which is basically a powerful pre-cog I suppose
4) making himself multiple bodies
5) transmutation I believe, maybe matter creation as well
6) teleport

these are nice, but won't cut it here and I don't see which one of them helps deal with a BFR to another dimension/universe/reality 





> Last I checked Dr. Manhattan was an omnipresent form of energy, *Not really possible to bfr him*.


first time I'm hearing this .. the bolded especially is a huge NLF 






> checking since story book universes are more sketchy than internet universes.


not really, it's pretty much the same thing as Digimons digital worlds or Uminekos book = universe


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## Bioness (Mar 22, 2014)

Fluttershy reread my posts in this thread and quit being dense. You're aware that Before Watchmen exists and you know the feats I mentioned weren't in the movie/comic, which means it is from where?

I'm at work right now, but search "Watchmen" threads by Endless Mike, there was an entire discussion about this.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 22, 2014)

your posts aren't detailed/explanatory enough 




			
				Bioness said:
			
		

> Although no one so far has claimed he is universal level, just that his direct actions can cause new universes to be born as well as unborn.


1) what am I supposed to make of this ? can he unmake the universe in which his OBD fight is set together with his opponent ? or what ? that would mean he has universal level DC - does he ? if he does - nice for him, though MLP has also gotten several realities creating/restoring/erasing feats on this very page
.. but you said "no one so far has claimed he is universal level"
2) what does this have to do with resisting a BFR (into another reality/universe or into the past) ? or just surviving getting erased entirely ? or a mindfuck ? all options here


you said a few other things as well, but I don't even know what those meant 




> search "Watchmen" threads by Endless Mike, there was an entire discussion about this.


1) threads got nuked, not sure I can search the archive
2) I skimmed through it when Mike made it, there was a whole lot of confusion and arguing and not much clarity/consensus



I see I will have to read at least the Dr. Manhattan portions of the prequel myself to get anywhere with this


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## Bioness (Mar 22, 2014)

Fluttershy said:


> ]Maximum Flutter



I posted this RIGHT AFTER your first post in this thread.



Bioness said:


> Doctor Manhattan can alter the past, which is how he ended up creating all those parallel universes, he later reversed the changes in the past unmaking all those universes.



Archives aren't locked off from the forums, you can view them easily in the Konoha Recycling Heap.

The archived Outskirts Battledome


The thread.


Lazy ass Fluttershy.

Tranquil Fury has the best interpretation in my opinion.



			
				Tranquil Fury said:
			
		

> I'll give my 2 cents keep in mind I have not read the comic
> 
> "The effect then rippled back and forth along my timeline from the moment of my recreation, creating new realities everytime I made a decision"
> 
> ...


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 22, 2014)

as far as I can tell that second quote of yours says the same thing as the first one which I quoted in my post  and clears up none of the stuff I mentioned above


anyway, you can stop, since :


> I see I will have to read at least the Dr. Manhattan portions of the prequel myself to get anywhere with this




and I don't really care about the threads outcome, more interested in figuring out/quantifying the feats



> Tranquil Fury has the best interpretation in my opinion.


that's nice, but I like to have my own interpretation too  (given that the whole thing is ambigous enough to even have multiple interpretations), especially since TF says he hasn't read it himself either (so maybe he doesn't have the full picture)


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## Bioness (Mar 22, 2014)

Interesting how you readily accepted the multiversal My Little Pony character without seeing the "full picture", double standards much?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 22, 2014)

reading the entire arc where that occured = not seeing the full picture ? k


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## Gone (Mar 22, 2014)

Something I wonder about, with the way that Doctor Manhattan looks at time are we sure that he can erase any timelines, or only those of which he has taken part in?


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