# Link vs Sora vs Dante



## Densoro (Dec 30, 2008)

No time-stopping abilities. Stats equivalent to those shown in gameplay. Each has all their items and abilities from every game (again, excluding time stop).
And because I can think of at least one person who'd say it, none of the characters will kill themselves for sucking so much or explode from awesomeness overload >_>

So yeah. Uh, have at it, I guess.


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 30, 2008)

Sora. In so many ways.


----------



## Zetta (Dec 30, 2008)

Why do you hate Link and Dante?


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Dec 30, 2008)

When you've got what amounts to Deus Ex Machina in weapon form it's hard to lose.


----------



## Utopia Realm (Dec 30, 2008)

Zetta said:


> Why do you hate Link and Dante?



I agree, wtf...


----------



## Densoro (Dec 30, 2008)

Iunno, Sora's powers seem extremely situational to me. Lots of people think he can rip anything apart because he can teleport blitz it. If that's so, why does he only teleport when in the presence of a large concentration of Space magic?
He can take a flying leap out of sight, then suddenly come crashing in like a meteor to stab you in the face, but only against enemies who make that their specialty. He can Learn it, but that knowledge only lasts for one use. Why the depletion? Usually, using a technique more firmly ingrains it in your brain, not destroys your memory of it.

It's my theory that the Keyblade (or perhaps the Drive clothes) work off something similar to FF8's magical Draw. So if Sora's opponents have nothing allowing them to teleport or jet around at hyperspeed, Sora wouldn't be able to Draw it out of them.

I don't hate Link. If anything, I hate Sora's swordsmanship e___e His stance is awful and half of his techniques leave him open to any decently skilled swordsman feeding their sword to the back of his kidneys.


----------



## Ax_ (Dec 30, 2008)

Sora jumps into his gummi ship and shoots the enemy until they are nothing but some dust on the ground
Or uses Genie and wishes them away
Or uses Reflega, thus sending all attacks back at the enemy
Or summons Stitch, who is pretty damn powerful, from what I can gather

And which Link?
There are several, and some might even manage to not get raped by Sora.


----------



## Densoro (Dec 30, 2008)

Genie can unexist people in KH? o_O

Anyway, it's Link with all powers and such, but I was thinking the Twilight Princess body, just for its strength. Add Power Bracelets (the Wind Waker sort) and Golden Gauntlets...
Plus he could down a Chateau Romani and don the Magic Cape. Invincible and invisible for three days, stabbing people with strength enough to throw a giant Goron stacked on strength that enabled little kids to lift Maui stone heads. Sounds decently problematic.


----------



## Ax_ (Dec 30, 2008)

Genie is the same as in the Disney movie...
But please, lets not have that argument again.
It really won't go anywhere, most of the time.

And that guy did do the same with the Heartless in a scene in KH 1.
If nothing else, just do the same to the weapons, protective stuff and all that, and it should be pretty fun to see what happens.
He also played around with matter manipulation/reality warping, when he did all of the stuff to make Al look like a prince.
There should probably be some matter creation as well, since he created alot of stuff from nothing, if I remember that movie correctly.
Or, if not that, remember Reflega?
The ability to send back attacks on the enemy, thus killing them with their own power?
The thing Sora can relatively easily spam?

How about Sora just flying around, and letting his enemies tire themselves out?
There are so many ways for Sora to win this, its pretty funny actually.


----------



## Densoro (Dec 30, 2008)

Reflega probably wouldn't do much against the Magic Cape. That whole invulnerability bit and all. And with Chateau Romani, there's three days straight of that. Not to mention the cape also makes him invisible; how would Sora know when to cast Reflega if he couldn't see the slash coming?

Also, not sure about how easy Link is to tire out. Sure, he PREFERS to ride Epona all over Hyrule, but he can just as easily make the trek on foot.

Genie's the main bother e____e Mind if I modify the rules to count him out? I'd really counted on people NOT getting removed from existence. That makes for such a boring fight.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Dec 30, 2008)

Stitch is very powerful. He can lift somewhere in the neighbourhood of 180 tons. Extremely intelligent, nigh indestructible, the ability to crawl on walls(Including the Fourth one!). He can see infrared and UV light, as well as having night vision. And he's got a frickin' gun.


----------



## Ax_ (Dec 30, 2008)

Referee said:


> Reflega probably wouldn't do much against the Magic Cape. That whole invulnerability bit and all. And with Chateau Romani, there's three days straight of that. Not to mention the cape also makes him invisible; how would Sora know when to cast Reflega if he couldn't see the slash coming?


The thing is, he has to drink, or start the magic first.
Sora is faster than him, so there won't be any of that.



> Also, not sure about how easy Link is to tire out. Sure, he PREFERS to ride Epona all over Hyrule, but he can just as easily make the trek on foot.


Much slower than what Sora can handle, given his feats.



> Genie's the main bother e____e Mind if I modify the rules to count him out? I'd really counted on people NOT getting removed from existence. That makes for such a boring fight.


It's been done by pretty much everyone who has ever used Sora this year, I'd guess, so why not.
No real difference either way, at least in regards to Link.



Onomatopoeia said:


> Stitch is very powerful. He can lift somewhere in the neighbourhood of 180 tons. Extremely intelligent, nigh indestructible, the ability to crawl on walls(Including the Fourth one!). He can see infrared and UV light, as well as having night vision. And he's got a frickin' gun.



He can also handle plasma, as shown in the movie.
He also sent a truck into a volcano, and used it to get to a spaceship, just to get to it.
He wasn't hurt by it, either...
That damn thing can take some serious damage.
Also, isn't it as smart as a supercomputer?


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Dec 30, 2008)

He thinks faster than a super-computer.


----------



## martryn (Dec 30, 2008)

Link has been in so many fucking games that if you gave him the stats, abilities, and items from all his titles I'm pretty sure he'll have a way to counter everything thrown at him.


----------



## Ax_ (Dec 30, 2008)

martryn said:


> Link has been in so many fucking games that if you gave him the stats, abilities, and items from all his titles I'm pretty sure he'll have a way to counter everything thrown at him.



Speedfeats is what he lacks, though.
At least any decent ones.


----------



## Densoro (Dec 30, 2008)

Is Sora really so fast (not counting the teleportation he used against Xaldin or Xigbar, for reasons mentioned before) that he can close 20 paces (the assumed starting distance, according to official rules. Forgot to add my own, so I thought we were going on that) before Link can put a cape over his shoulders? Pretty sure it was just about instant in the game, though don't quote me on that. It'd be like Harry quickly pulling on the Invisibility Cloak.

Ono and I have been talking a bit over AIM, and since neither of us knows his measurements enough to think up 180 tons off the top of his head, we've just gone by Stitch's feat of beating Gantu up. Fyrus, the fire boss that Link outmuscled in Twilight Princess, is roughly the same size. And I'm not looking to damage Stitch; the fight isn't with him. I just need to know that he won't grab Link by his neck and throw him into space e____e

As displeased as I am with this fight becoming Link vs Summons, all Link technically has to do is take down Sora, summons be damned. Unless Stitch is gonna spend all his time taking Ice Arrows to the chest for Sora, he's not going to change much.

*feels bad for Dante being so left out =<*


----------



## martryn (Dec 30, 2008)

> Speedfeats is what he lacks, though.
> At least any decent ones.



Speed isn't everything.  Video game Sora can't be that fast, since you have to control him.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Dec 30, 2008)

> Unless Stitch is gonna spend all his time taking Ice Arrows to the chest for Sora, he's not going to change much.


Can Link use two different magic items at once? Regardless, if Stitch can catch blasterbolts, he can catch arrows.



> *feels bad for Dante being so left out =<*



Don't be, he's a loser that's lucky I allow him to exist.


----------



## Mugiwara (Dec 30, 2008)

Dante's nearly immortal lol. He has skills enough to kill the both of them at the same time as well. Sora wouldn't be as big of a threat as Link would be though. 

My vote goes to Dante.


----------



## Densoro (Dec 30, 2008)

And Link's speed of blade is greater than Sora's. It's all because of the techniques they use, though. Sora twirls around, trying to put momentum into his slash. Link understands that a sharp weapon doesn't NEED that much momentum, and does quick, simple movements that'll put a nice hole in your skin. Like a fencer vs a twirling samurai.

EDIT: @Ono: I think so...Only reason he didn't in the early games is because he only had two equipment slots. One for a sword, one for the spell. But with the three-item system of TP, that's fixed.

As to Dante's nigh-immortality, he's a Demon. A dark species. The Master Sword would have its way with him pretty hard.


----------



## Narcissus (Dec 30, 2008)

Sora can use Trinity Limit to instantly teleport to his enemy and slash them to pieces.
Sora can summon Tinker Bell to heal him from any injury.
Sora can spam Reflect.
Sora can casually cut through buildings.
Sora can shoot laser beams.
Sora can, Sora can, Sora can...

See where this is going?


----------



## Ax_ (Dec 30, 2008)

martryn said:


> Speed isn't everything.  Video game Sora can't be that fast, since you have to control him.



Welcome to reaction commands, where Sora plays tennis with himself, using a bullet/laser/what-have-you as the ball...

You know, chances are pretty good he can speedblitz Link, at least.
He can also fly around, more or less at will, so that is another thing Link will have trouble with.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Dec 30, 2008)

There are no lasers in Kingdom Hearts.


----------



## Ax_ (Dec 30, 2008)

Onomatopoeia said:


> There are no lasers in Kingdom Hearts.



Then it's a bullet, and suddenly Sora is a ridiculously casual bullet timer, especially if we go with the same thing being used for Twilight Xemnas and his attack right at the end...

Either way, Sora is faster than Link here.


----------



## Densoro (Dec 30, 2008)

He's definitely got more speed of body than Link does. I never disputed that, but his sword technique sucks. Which I guess you've realized, being that I don't think there's been a single Keyblade-based strategy in this whole thread o_O You're better than the last lot that defended him.

Anyway, as to bullet/laser/whatever tennis, I guess we're disregarding my Draw theory? I'll admit that, if Sora can do that anytime, he wins. The only hole in that so far is that I don't believe Sora can do that anytime.

Also, Disorderly Conduct, don't you need all your party members for Trinity Limit? This isn't Sora, Donald, and Goofy vs Link. Just Sora. Besides, Link would counter with Triforce Slash ^___^
Link carries fairies that can heal him from _death_.
Link has a Mirror Shield to Reflect attacks. Plus, he won't take any damage from a Reflected attack when he's using one of several invincibility items.
Link, armed with one of his larger swords, can casually completely shatter large stone pillars.
Laser beams vs a guy carrying an indestructible mirror on his arm. Nice.
Sora can, Sora can, Sora can. But so can Link.


----------



## Narcissus (Dec 31, 2008)

Referee said:


> Also, Disorderly Conduct, don't you need all your party members for Trinity Limit? This isn't Sora, Donald, and Goofy vs Link. Just Sora. Besides, Link would counter with Triforce Slash ^___^
> Link carries fairies that can heal him from _death_.
> Link has a Mirror Shield to Reflect attacks. Plus, he won't take any damage from a Reflected attack when he's using one of several invincibility items.
> Link, armed with one of his larger swords, can casually completely shatter large stone pillars.
> ...



Have you played KH 2? 

Sora needs Donald and Goofy to do a variation of Trinity Limit, but if they are not there, he does another version, where he teleports to his foe and slashes them instantly.  I know because it's the move I used to finish off Sephiroth in KH 2.

I doubt Link will react to the instant movement of the Trinity Limit.


----------



## Densoro (Dec 31, 2008)

Played and beaten KH2, though Sephiroth's a cheap prick who teleports directly on top of me no matter what I do, so I haven't beaten him. I swear, I repeat the EXACT same Glide patterns as those guys on YouTube that kick his ass, and all I get is Masamune in the urethra >___>;

But that's neither here nor there. I'd forgotten about the lone Trinity Limit (which makes no Goddamn sense. Trinity has to do with three. Three with one? Bah), but even still, Triforce Slash is instant, too. Time slows to a stop all around Link as he flashes Courage at his enemies, then it suddenly springs back to normal speed as he goes off on his crazy-ass combo ^___^

Oh, another fun little gambit: Protection Ring plus the Heart barrier thing from OoT. All damage will be at the level of a scratch, and at no cost =D


----------



## Narcissus (Dec 31, 2008)

Sephiroth can be a bitch, so don't feel bad about not beating him.  You just need to get used to his stragety.  What method did you use?

Triforce Slash in Brawl requires that break the special attack ball before you use it, and then Link must fire a beam of light at his enemy, which is avoidable, so it's not instant like the Trinity Force, which Sora can unleash on Link before he even breaks the ball.


----------



## Densoro (Dec 31, 2008)

Who's to say that, in all his days questing, he's never broken the Smash Ball? And that he's wasted his greatest move on any of the normal questing that he's gotten through without a Final Smash?

Though I'd much rather think Link would just pull the Magic Cape over himself and tank the Trinity Limit with an invincibility shield. Or maybe even land a Parry Attack =D Or both. If he's invisible, Sora'd never know he'd used a PA.

And as for Sephy, I'd slap him around, then fly in circles once he broke the stunlocking. Just like those guys on YouTube. Difference is, he read my flightpath =/ Guess he's used to seeing it from everyone else XD


----------



## Zaelapolopollo (Dec 31, 2008)

If Link has access to all of his abilities, he can use the Chateu Romani, a special type of milk that gives him infinite magic power for three days straight. Taking abilities from Majora's Mask, he has six bottles with which to carry said milk. That means, at maximum, he has just under three weeks worth of infinite magic.

Then you have his Magic Armor from Wind Waker. It's an item that surrounds Link with a shield of pure energy for as long as he has magic. While the Armor is active, he is invincible.

Those two factors combined make Link unkillable for nearly three weeks straight

With the Gold Gauntlets, he has "the strength to move mountains" according to the exact description of what the item does.

With the Magic Cape, he can be invisible and pass throughs olid objects.

Then there's the various Masks like the one that makes Link a giant.

So his foes are facing a giant invulnerable intangible guy who can move mountains.


----------



## Enclave (Dec 31, 2008)

martryn said:


> Speed isn't everything.  Video game Sora can't be that fast, since you have to control him.



I quoted you but it's really to everybody who thinks Sora isn't that fast.

What you need to remember is that the speed you play at ISN'T the speed that the characters actually move at.  For instance, Sonic is stated to be able to easily break the sound barrier.  If the game actually played with Sonic going super sonic speeds the game would be totally unplayable so the gameplay is slowed down to levels you can play the game at.

The same is true for Kingdom Hearts.  See, this is why you cannot bring gameplay mechanics into vs topics.  You need to use the storyline capabilities of the characters.

Also, to the guy who says that Sora's feats are situational, again that's GAMEPLAY.  Tell me, could you on a PS2 controller configure it in a way that would allow Sora to do everything he's capable of doing against every enemy in the game?  Hell no, there isn't enough buttons and even if there were it would be far too complex of controls for anybody.  So what did the devs do?  They made reaction commands so they could show what Sora is capable of doing without it being insanely difficult for you to do it yourself (or in most cases flat out impossible for you to do yourself).  From a storyline perspective he's capable of doing all of those things whenever he wants.  By the same token, this makes people who would say "Sora uses his reaction command that automatically makes him win" idiots because from a storyline perspective he doesn't have reaction commands as it's a gameplay mechanic.

Next onto invincible Link with his milk and whatever.  As I recall doesn't the milks effectiveness run out when he goes to another screen and thus doesn't last 3 days unless you stay 3 days within 1 "zone" area?  This would imply to me that the milk actually has a very real time limit from a storyline perspective even if it doesn't have a strict limit due to a gameplay mechanic.

Seriously, people really need to learn the difference between gameplay mechanics and storyline capabilities.



> There are no lasers in Kingdom Hearts.



Oh do not open that can of worms again.  I'm not in the mood for it.


----------



## Utopia Realm (Dec 31, 2008)

The Anti-Existence said:


> If Link has access to all of his abilities, he can use the Chateu Romani, a special type of milk that gives him infinite magic power for three days straight. Taking abilities from Majora's Mask, he has six bottles with which to carry said milk. That means, at maximum, he has just under three weeks worth of infinite magic.
> 
> Then you have his Magic Armor from Wind Waker. It's an item that surrounds Link with a shield of pure energy for as long as he has magic. While the Armor is active, he is invincible.
> 
> ...



Not only that, but the guilded sword from Majora's mask is said to be unbreakable, and he has access to the Fierce Diety's mask too. The FD mask allows Link to fire energy blasts and the duration of the mask is about as long as he has magic, which will be awhile for him to run out. So, technically, his foes are facing a giant, intangible, invunerable, mountain mover with an unbreakable sword(guilded). 

So, this match-up is pretty even, excluding the four swords game and the tri-force of course.


----------



## The Saltiest Pizza (Dec 31, 2008)

cheapoman said:


> Not only that, but the guilded sword from Majora's mask is said to be unbreakable, and he has access to the Fierce Diety's mask too. The FD mask allows Link to fire energy blasts and the duration of the mask is about as long as he has magic, which will be awhile for him to run out. So, technically, his foes are facing a giant, intangible, invunerable, mountain mover with an unbreakable sword(guilded).
> 
> So, this match-up is pretty even, excluding the four swords game and the tri-force of course.



FD mask lasts as long as your magic? Lol no. When you fire off those blue energy disks, that uses magic, not the mask itself.


----------



## Schneider (Dec 31, 2008)

Dante shoots a torpedo and rides on it. Link and Sora teleports away to avoid awesomeness.


----------



## MavrikM (Dec 31, 2008)

1. Link
2. Sora
3. Dante

        I'm sayin It right now:  I've never played a game with dante in it.
Mastersword+wolf form+gold gauntlets+all other LOZ items=win


----------



## Shinkirou (Dec 31, 2008)

"Genie, I wish none of the others have any magic items." Damn....


----------



## Rashou (Dec 31, 2008)

Composite Link stands a chance if Sora goes after Dante first. Dante would be a nice warm-up for Sora, but even with Devil Trigger he'd go down (he would be harder to bring down in the Sparda Devil Trigger form, but even that form would fall before Sora eventually). The most this could be is a draw- don't see KH2 Sora being beaten by even composite Link.


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 31, 2008)

Onomatopoeia said:


> There are no lasers in Kingdom Hearts.



xigbar Mansex and gummy ships :ho


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 31, 2008)

MavrikM said:


> 1. Link
> 2. Sora
> 3. Dante
> 
> ...



Genie, drop Dante on a black hole?


No, ok, Gummy Ship, drop a black hole heartless here?
No?
Trinity light, please vaporize all evil creatures


----------



## Densoro (Dec 31, 2008)

> Next onto invincible Link with his milk and whatever. As I recall doesn't the milks effectiveness run out when he goes to another screen and thus doesn't last 3 days unless you stay 3 days within 1 "zone" area? This would imply to me that the milk actually has a very real time limit from a storyline perspective even if it doesn't have a strict limit due to a gameplay mechanic.


Not so, good sir. Three days of free-roaming. Not that it matters, as I don't particularly expect them to take in the sights while they're fighting >__> Pretty much limited to one area.



> Seriously, people really need to learn the difference between gameplay mechanics and storyline capabilities.


Fine, how 'bout this? When fighting Roxas in KH2:FM, Sora was in danger of being killed as per storyline. Roxas had him on his knee and disarmed. Never mind the whole Matrix battle before that. So why didn't he pull out of his ass a game-winning animespeed flank, or just teleport blitz Roxas? His _life_ very nearly came to depend on it. Why would he show restraint?
Maybe he wasn't. Maybe what he was showing was inability due to situational powers not being active. ^______^

And Banhammer, Link isn't an evil creature ^___^ Though Dante would be screwed x)


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 31, 2008)

Link might be invincible, and that's pretty, but Sora can just steal his weapons with magnega, and then have a spaceship push him to the sun.


Particularly speakinf of Mandragora, who can just absorb any energy he dishes out and then throw it back. Not to mention the healing.


----------



## Densoro (Dec 31, 2008)

Pretty sure Magnega moves the wielders as well as their weapons. From what I've seen, anyway. So while his weapons would move, he'd move enough to keep hold.
Planning to use Magnega for a mass disarmament is like me using Farore's Wind to teleport Sora into the sun ^_____^

What's Mandragora?


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 31, 2008)

Special spaceship that regenerates faster than wolverine, can ressurect itself once, and can absorb infinite amounts of energy damage, pile it up to a ball and then shoot it back in a single kamehame of fuckaBOOOM.


----------



## Densoro (Dec 31, 2008)

Pretty sure Gummi ships can't get that close to planetside ^____^ The way they handle, they'd crash right in. And if not, Link would just use a Parry Attack to get around it. Worked for another swooping enemy.

Though again, how would Sora know where to aim his ship? Magic Cape Link can't be seen. Unless Sora's sprouted IR sight or something.
EDIT: Alternately, Link could just put on the Wind Waker Iron Boots. Nobody's pushing him around then.


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 31, 2008)

Referee said:


> Pretty sure Gummi ships can't get that close to planetside ^____^ The way they handle, they'd crash right in. And if not, Link would just use a Parry Attack to get around it. Worked for another swooping enemy.
> 
> Though again, how would Sora know where to aim his ship? Magic Cape Link can't be seen. *Unless Sora's sprouted IR sight or something.
> EDIT: Alternately, Link could just put on the Wind Waker Iron Boots. Nobody's pushing him around then*.



magnega. specially with iron boots for teh lolz


----------



## Densoro (Dec 31, 2008)

Yeah, that would be fun XD Though that'd save Link the trouble of advancing. Just let himself get pulled in toward Sora, dive in sword-first.
Though I wonder...would Magnega screw with a Gummi ship's flight path? o____o; I mean, isn't it a huge chunk of metal? Sora'd send his own ship spiraling into the ground D=!


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 31, 2008)

Referee said:


> Yeah, that would be fun XD Though that'd save Link the trouble of advancing. Just let himself get pulled in toward Sora, dive in sword-first.


Wich he'll just reflect


> Though I wonder...would Magnega screw with a Gummi ship's flight path? o____o; I mean, isn't it a huge chunk of metal? Sora'd send his own ship spiraling into the ground D=!



no. It's a huge chunk of gummy blocks. And it tanks enough cosmic travel to make magnega neglible


----------



## Densoro (Dec 31, 2008)

Again, you say he'll Reflect, but how will he know when a man draped in invisibility magic is about to stab him in the head? Is the Magic Cape really that forgettable? =/


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 31, 2008)

He.
He heals

Also, magnega is sumoned above his head.
Sword gets magnetically atracted above him


----------



## Densoro (Dec 31, 2008)

Chances that his Goron-chucking-stacked-with-Maui-Head-chucking-squared strength could overpower the magnetism, allowing him to aim as he likes?
Also, what'd happen if Invisible Link got right up next to Sora and slammed him with an Ice Arrow?


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 31, 2008)

Referee said:


> Chances that his Goron-chucking-stacked-with-Maui-Head-chucking-squared strength could overpower the magnetism, allowing him to aim as he likes?
> Also, what'd happen if Invisible Link got right up next to Sora and slammed him with an Ice Arrow?



As invisible? He'd go "ow. That did not hurt as much as getting smacked by the ice Titan. Hey, have a stab through the head"


----------



## Densoro (Dec 31, 2008)

No chance he'd be frozen solid by ice magic powered by the Goddesses that created the world on which Hyrule resides? =/ Being smacked by ice isn't nearly the same as being frozen at absolute 0 degrees Kelvin. Which, arrows canonically stated to "freeze any flame" would pretty much have to be at that temperature. Anything less and there would be some rare flame somewhere that can survive it.

As to the stab through the head, again, Link's invisibility and invincibility are stacked together on the same item. That stab would do absolutely nothing.


----------



## Ax_ (Dec 31, 2008)

Was Genie banned yet?
Either way, just summon Tinkerbell, and have some healing while he spams Reflega, sending all attacks back.

Or why not have fun and just fly around, and spam the lightning attack?

I mean, how can Link HIT Sora here?

Besides, the milk hasn't been shown to last beyond 3 days, and that isn't beyond what Sora can handle with his ship flying around.

Dante is very, very, VERY screwed, though.
Either one of them can beat him.

Also, I think I saw a Final Smash comment here...
Reflega?
Also, Sora is faster than arrows, so just use the magnet spells to draw them all away, and force Link to move around unless he wants to be dragged into it (he probably will anyway, but I'm willing to say that if he constantly moves he would be strong enough to resist it).

And with that spell up, Link won't be as good at using his sword either.


----------



## Densoro (Dec 31, 2008)

Genie was in fact banned. Having Link sent to nonexistence is such a boring win =/ 'Boring' here pronounced 'cheap.'
What if Link has five bottles (the Majora's Mask count) of 3 day milk? 15 days enough? ^___^

Spamming Lightning won't do much, because (AGAIN T_____T) Link's thrown up an invisibility/invincibility field on himself.
Thing about Reflegaing Triforce Slash is that, once the beam hits you, you're stunned until the end of the combo. Crucified against the full Triforce. When three Goddesses of creation tell you to hold still, dammit, you hold still.

About Sora outflying arrows, it's a simple matter to move into Sora's flightpath and send an Ice Arrow his way. Send him crashing out of the sky and straight into the dirt like Ven after Master Xehanort did his bit.


----------



## Ax_ (Dec 31, 2008)

Flightpath?
...you are aware he has a gummi ship, as well?
And Link still has to fight Dante as well.

And Reflega is cast immediately, and then Sora can cast it before it runs out IIRC.

Also, Sora has taken some damn brutal damage.
For instance, Sora can cut through skyscrapers with ridiculous ease.
Twilight Xemnas is stated by the maker of the game to be the strongest being in KHverse, and Sora still managed to take some punishment from him (the most common one was when T. Xemnas used his power to torture Sora while you played as Riku to help him).
Sora was fine after that, and even managed to fall into his own planet right into the sea, and get up with no real problems.
Also, Link has to drink the milk first.

Won't have time to do that, unless Sora gets stupid and kills the other guy first.
And, even if he did that, why not spend 15 days flying around?
I mean, Link can't stop him, so why not just do that while taking a nap or something?

Still, I'll admit that link is obscenely powerful here, since he gets the physical abilities of his Brawl form, which can tank hits from DK, which I believe can go up to 50 000 miles/hour, or something like that, against a 999% damage Kirby...

So Dante won't be able to handle either of them...
Kind of strange for him to be here, even.


----------



## Schneider (Dec 31, 2008)

Dante is still more awesome than those two combined times ten.

To add to Sora's durability, post the battle with Xemnas, he and Riku survived atmospheric entry, then proceeded to fall headfirst into the sea, and goofs off several seconds later. 

That's one durable shit. So more or less Sora is as durable as meteors.


----------



## Densoro (Dec 31, 2008)

Bah, I thought you meant flying around in Glide -__- Guess it's too late to call the Gummi Ship unfair...
Reflega may be cast immediately, but it would fade during the pause between the Triforce Crucifixion and the actual first strike. And because of the stun, he wouldn't be able to recast it, just as a Brawl character isn't able to bring up their bubble shield.

As to the milk, he could always do it the other way around. Put on the Magic Cape, lose like 1 point of mana, THEN drink the milk. Then when that milk's about to run out, drink another. etc.

Gotta admit, I just added Dante to make a point. Namely, that guys who wield big swords using broad, sweeping slashes suck at sword fights, and that every Dante fanboy's beloved resistance to being stabbed through the chest doesn't matter when the sword is holy-enchanted.

EDIT: Link survived atmo, too. The moon in MM was entering when he did his battle with Majora.
EDIT2: *ponders counting Sora taking off in his ship as BFR*


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Dec 31, 2008)

Dante4 is listed as one of the top swordsmen in fiction for some insane reason. Probly his physical stats more than his skill.


----------



## Ax_ (Dec 31, 2008)

Referee said:


> Bah, I thought you meant flying around in Glide -__- Guess it's too late to call the Gummi Ship unfair...


You could, but then you are still basically admitting that Sora is too powerful for the others to come close to handle.
Still, Link is badass, I won't say anything else.
Why not make a Dante vs Link thread instead?



> Reflega may be cast immediately, but it would fade during the pause between the Triforce Crucifixion and the actual first strike. And because of the stun, he wouldn't be able to recast it, just as a Brawl character isn't able to bring up their bubble shield.


That isn't how this works, though.
Reflega can be cast more or less continuously.
In fact, that was one of the reasons he was hax.
First, it was Reflega
Then superior abilities
Then, Genie
Finally, we got Mandragora and such, combined with the above when allowed.



> As to the milk, he could always do it the other way around. Put on the Magic Cape, lose like 1 point of mana, THEN drink the milk. Then when that milk's about to run out, drink another. etc.


Which will last 15 days...
Why couldn't Sora jusst relax in that time?



> Gotta admit, I just added Dante to make a point. Namely, that guys who wield big swords using broad, sweeping slashes suck at sword fights, and that every Dante fanboy's beloved resistance to being stabbed through the chest doesn't matter when the sword is holy-enchanted.


Or can hurt Genies...
Or Greek Gods...
It also finally stopped the Hydra from regenerating its heads as well, when Sora was in the world of Hercules.



> EDIT2: *ponders counting Sora taking off in his ship as BFR*


Why?
He will still be in the area, you just won't seriously be able to hurt him with energy attacks, since you can't possibly tell me Sora of all people is evil enough to be affected by the light arrows or things like that.

And all of this really proves my point anyway.
Sora is too powerful for the other 2, so he has to be this limited just to get an argument.

@Schneider
Dude, no.
You aren't fucking telling me that LINK isn't badass and awesome.


----------



## Schneider (Dec 31, 2008)

Dante rides torpedoes.
Sora rides a big lego block.
While someone rides ON Link.

Badass? Make your choice carefully.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Dec 31, 2008)

Inuyasha I mean Dante is a loser. Gee, I wonder how I could have gotten those two mixed up.


----------



## Densoro (Dec 31, 2008)

You say it can be cast continuously, but does this count when you're staggering backward from a blow? Can you cast it mid-air when you've been batted that way? Because that's basically what it is. An extended, unmoving stagger.

Why would he relax when an invisible and invulnerable swordsman/sniper/cavalier/wolf dude is trying to beat the hell out of him for 15 days straight, pausing occasionally to sip some milk? That's one second's piece between 14.9999 hours straight of being slapped around from any direction. And the best part is that, if he stops to let Sora finish Reflecting, Sora'll be none the wiser. Invisible! =D

Anyway, I fail to see how running away in a Gummi ship indicates that Sora's just too much raw pwnage for Link. If he was really so awesome, he wouldn't have to sit in his ship waiting for Big Bad Link to go away. He'd tank it out. If he's beyond reach no matter what, seems to me that's a BFR =/ It's one thing to play keep-away. It's another entirely to fly 50 feet or so above the ground and watch. That's spectator distance.

Though if Link allowed Sora to reach his ship, he'd probably stop using his milks. No point in wasting. Hell, he may even turn off the cape manually to trick Sora out of hiding, then put it back up once his enemy is vunlerable again.

And I agree with Ax. Dante pretends to be badass with the whole Rebel Without A Cause bit. Link's a kid who wears a fairy tunic and can STILL beat your ass into hamburger meat. Plus, he's better-looking than Dante could ever hope to be, so there DX


----------



## Ax_ (Dec 31, 2008)

This is how it goes, when casting Reflega.
First, the spell comes on, then the casting animation goes, and before it is over you can do so again.
It is THE single easiest way to kill bosses in KH 2.
The only way to lose is if you meet someone with a time limit, like Demyx, or something like Sephiroth with his Heartless Angel attack.

And how can link meet him?
He just puts his ship above, and the only thing Link can do is shoot at him.
Also, how would Link stop Sora from getting to his ship?

Sora still has better speedfeats than Link, so he can do that easily.

Also, again, when does Link drink the milk?
I mean, sure, if Sora decides he really doesn't like that bastard Dante, since he was already put up against him once, then I can see that.

And if Link stops drinking milk, why doesn't Sora simply use his ship to shoot the badass hylian swordsman?
I mean, that's what I would do if I had a FTL/dimension-travelling ship at my command who can't easily get hurt by any attacks from my enemy.
You know, after Dante is dead.

And even if he does drink the milk, just go into the ship, cast magnega to make sure the arrows can't get to him, and rest up!
Maybe make some plans with Kairi after the fight, since he will hopefully be left alone after this for awhile, get some fruits to eat, spend some time with the familuy, and all that, without the bastards who forces him to fight against fellow good guys fucking his shit up, and on new years ever as well...those assholes 

And besides, Link lately is always doing something awesome to kill his enemy.
Take, for instance, WW Link.
Even when he looks like a fucking cartoon, he gets badass by putting his sword through the HEAD of ganondorf.

You don't get more awesome than that, when fighting with swords.

In fact, screw fighting.
Sora invites Link to a new years eve party, or something, in a tropical island, together with Links friends.
Happy end for everyone.
Except Dante, but who cares?


----------



## Densoro (Dec 31, 2008)

Like I said, he'd put up the invincibility first, then drink it. Not much you can do to stop him when he's reactively intangible ^____^ 
Though this is becoming more like Gummi Ship in low atmo vs Link =/ Sora's winning on the strength of a piece of technology that has nothing to do with his stats.

Either way, I like your thinking XD I've never understood why people constantly made Link and Sora fight each other, especially bloodlusted. The way I figure it, they'd be great friends. Though Sora might have to do most of the talking >_>;
Still, drooling Sora fangirls brought the fight up. I couldn't ignore their challenge D= And it's been like this ever since.


----------



## Ax_ (Dec 31, 2008)

You HAVE put away Genie already, though...
And how about the speedfeats for Link?
He has to drink the bottle, or cast teh spell, or something first.

And, if you want to complain about using items and such, you really shouldn't use Link as the side you are arguing for here...

But yeah, I agree with you.
If those 2 were to ever meet, it'd be more likely that they'd fight some Heartless or ganondorf army members, or something like that.
And then take the Gummi Ship and have a party in a tropical island.
I'm dead serious.
What do I have to do to get something like that put in a game?

None of thie emo bullshit JRPGs seems to have recently, I want a badass who just does whatever he does because he can.
I want a Kamina of RPGs instead of the Shinji one, goddammit.


----------



## Blaizen (Dec 31, 2008)

Ax_ said:


> You HAVE put away Genie already, though...
> And how about the speedfeats for Link?
> He has to drink the bottle, or cast teh spell, or something first.
> 
> ...



Having a Kamina like character for a rpg would make grownups players cry cause they would completly understand the gar and awsomeness of the character. But kids would be like 'huh?'. so unfortunatly it will never happen.


----------



## Ax_ (Dec 31, 2008)

Blaizen said:


> Having a Kamina like character for a rpg would make grownups players cry cause they would completly understand the gar and awsomeness of the character. But kids would be like 'huh?'. so unfortunatly it will never happen.



It beats having all this shit with BAAW I LOST MY MEMORY shit that is so fucking common nowadays.
Shitty ripoffs of the FF series.


----------



## Narcissus (Dec 31, 2008)

Behold, for this video demonstrates just how much Sora can spam Reflect, and it might help you defeat Sephy.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuNTfsxvc6E&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Shinkirou (Dec 31, 2008)

Disorderly Conduct said:


> Behold, for this video demonstrates just how much Sora can spam Reflect, and it might help you defeat Sephy.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuNTfsxvc6E&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]



Sora Reflects for weeks on end until Link runs out of milk, Sora wins.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Dec 31, 2008)

Link survives by consuming milk while Sora inevitably starves to death.


----------



## Shinkirou (Dec 31, 2008)

Onomatopoeia said:


> Link survives by consuming milk while Sora inevitably starves to death.



Soras never needed to eat or drink before, why should he start now.


----------



## Purgatory (Jan 1, 2009)

Dante hands down.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 1, 2009)

Care to elaborate?


----------



## Purgatory (Jan 1, 2009)

Onomatopoeia said:


> Care to elaborate?



Easily. Gameplay-wise, Dante can slow down time (OP never stated he can't slow down time), instantaneously teleport to his enemies (DMC3 Dante anyway, AKA SkyStar), has an incredible amount of durability, and I'm not even going to start with DT and Super DT, because that's overkill.


----------



## Vault (Jan 1, 2009)

Dante with the Sparda takes this


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 1, 2009)

> Dante can slow down time (OP never stated he can't slow down time)



I call No Purple Dragons. Explicitly attempting to ignore the given rules by calling out a technicality, despite knowing full well what they entail. 
Fail. Faaaaaaaaail. You fail.


----------



## Purgatory (Jan 1, 2009)

Onomatopoeia said:


> I call No Purple Dragons. Explicitly attempting to ignore the given rules by calling out a technicality, despite knowing full well what they entail.
> Fail. Faaaaaaaaail. You fail.





> No time-*stopping* abilities. Stats equivalent to those shown in gameplay. Each has all their items and abilities from every game (again, excluding time *stop*).
> And because I can think of at least one person who'd say it, none of the characters will kill themselves for sucking so much or explode from awesomeness overload >_>
> 
> So yeah. Uh, have at it, I guess.



You LOSE sir, GOOD DAY!


----------



## Schneider (Jan 1, 2009)

Actually, if the OP allows for time manipulation, Dante won't actually go down at the bottom battle wise.

Anyway, if gameplay-wise counts, Dante bumps into asteroids in the last battle of DMC 1, and able to walk on lava for some period of time.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 1, 2009)

I am aware of what the rules say. I am also aware, as are you, of what they _mean_.

You attempt to use time-slow  "BCUZ TEH RULZ SAE NO TYM STOP!1!~1!1!1" is very obviously No Purple Dragons.


----------



## Vault (Jan 1, 2009)

Onomatopoeia said:


> I call No Purple Dragons. Explicitly attempting to ignore the given rules by calling out a technicality, despite knowing full well what they entail.
> Fail. Faaaaaaaaail. You fail.



just because yoyu dont like Dante doesnt make this any less rape 

just always looking  for ways to slag poff dante


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 1, 2009)

Portia said:


> just because yoyu dont like Dante doesnt make this any less rape
> 
> just always looking  for ways to slag poff dante



My dislike of Dante has nothing to do with my calling out whatshisnuts in his poorly executed attempt to ignore the rules. I'd have done the same if he tried it for Sora or Link.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 1, 2009)

*wonders why EVERYBODY is ignoring the two and a half weeks of Link being invisible and literally untouchable -___-*
Seriously, love to see what even Super DT Dante can do to Link when A) he can't see him, and B) every attack passes right through. That's like saying that Dante can kill wind. Magic Cape is arguably as broken as Reflect. At least when you let me use Every Game Link ^____^ Five bottles of Chateau Romani turns this into a freaking war.
And Dante's just equipped for brawls.

Plus, once again, Master Sword is double-enchanted with holy light. Dante is half demon. That's a very, very bad combination.
*decides to really be an asshole and have Link replicate with the Four Sword*

Four powerful young men with a double-holy sword, Golden Gauntlets, Power Bracelets, 15 days of invulnerability/invisibility, arrows, etc.

So four invisible turrets that would easily knock DT Dante out of the sky with a bombardment of Light Arrows ^_____^


----------



## Vault (Jan 1, 2009)

Lol what 

I remember a thread you made about dante where you carried on nerfing him just because you wanted him to lose, to your own admittance


----------



## Narcissus (Jan 1, 2009)

Spare me this nonsense.  Sora uses Genie to rid himself of Dante and Link.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 1, 2009)

Portia said:


> Lol what
> 
> I remember a thread you made about dante where you carried on nerfing him just because you wanted him to lose, to your own admittance



That was that thread. This is this thread.


----------



## Vault (Jan 1, 2009)

So im jyst saying your hate of Dante makes you favour the others no matter what 

just saying.

with that said  Dante with the sparda takes thisb


----------



## Densoro (Jan 1, 2009)

How. Explain how the Sparda would allow him to take out four invisible guys who are nailing him with Light Arrows and who, should he ever find them to slash at them, will absorb his blow as though it wasn't there due to advanced protection magic.

Hell, screw Light Arrows. The Links each spam Sword Beam. Channeled through the holy Master Sword, there's hardly a difference. Except Sword Beams don't waste arrows ^____^ 

Four intangible turrets nailing him for 15 days straight. What's the Sparda gonna do?


----------



## Schneider (Jan 1, 2009)

Referee said:


> *wonders why EVERYBODY is ignoring the two and a half weeks of Link being invisible and literally untouchable -___-*
> Seriously, love to see what even Super DT Dante can do to Link when A) he can't see him, and B) every attack passes right through. That's like saying that Dante can kill wind. Magic Cape is arguably as broken as Reflect. At least when you let me use Every Game Link ^____^ Five bottles of Chateau Romani turns this into a freaking war.
> And Dante's just equipped for brawls.
> 
> ...



Actually, what makes you think Dante is weak to those "holy" shit? Does that holy thing is made for demons of any kind?


----------



## Vault (Jan 1, 2009)

Dante can use HOLY WATER 

It works on other demons but not him 

nice try though


----------



## Narcissus (Jan 1, 2009)

Portia said:


> So im jyst saying your hate of Dante makes you favour the others no matter what
> 
> just saying.
> 
> with that said  Dante with the sparda takes thisb



It appears to me that your fanboyism of Dante makes you favor him no matter what.

Just saying.

With that said, Sora with Genie takes this thread.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 1, 2009)

Portia said:


> So im jyst saying your hate of Dante makes you favour the others no matter what
> 
> just saying.
> 
> with that said  Dante with the sparda takes thisb



I hate Sora too, but I've made no effort to present him as royaly fucked. Could it be that my opinions on them have no effect on how I view the fight?

*LE GASP ZORZ*


----------



## Vault (Jan 1, 2009)

> It appears to me that your fanboyism of Dante makes you favor him no matter what.
> 
> Just saying.




nice one


----------



## Shinkirou (Jan 1, 2009)

Referee said:


> *wonders why EVERYBODY is ignoring the two and a half weeks of Link being invisible and literally untouchable -___-*
> Seriously, love to see what even Super DT Dante can do to Link when A) he can't see him, and B) every attack passes right through. That's like saying that Dante can kill wind. Magic Cape is arguably as broken as Reflect. At least when you let me use Every Game Link ^____^ Five bottles of Chateau Romani turns this into a freaking war.
> And Dante's just equipped for brawls.
> 
> ...



We covered that. Sora uses reflect until Link runs out of milk. 

Though if I wanted to be an asshole I'd point out that there are different "Links" for every game (well not every), and that if you give Link his items from every game, you'd have to point out which Link because he wouldn't get every item from every game because the same Link wasn't _in_ every game.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 1, 2009)

However, in this case, the Link in question (in this case, Twilight Princess) has somehow inherited all the others' items. Easy point to nullify.
Also, I was talking about against Dante that time. Portia's claims that the Sparda would obliterate Link are complete bull in this case due to aforementioned milk and invulnerability ^^

Anyway, as to Dante being weak to the Master Sword, his breed of Demons are from Hell if I remember right. Land of fire and brimstone and all that. Am I remembering wrong?
'Cause if I'm remembering right, he's pretty well screwed. Hell's demons aren't exactly holy.

Besides, if a tank (that's null alignment) can kill him, the Master Sword's a shoe-in.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 1, 2009)

> Though if I wanted to be an asshole I'd point out that there are different "Links" for every game (well not every), and that if you give Link his items from every game, you'd have to point out which Link because he wouldn't get every item from every game because the same Link wasn't in every game.



The point of his "EG" Link is to combine the inventories of all the LoZ games into a single whole for this particular Link to access as he pleases. It's not a matter of them being different people.


----------



## Rashou (Jan 1, 2009)

Sora could teleport an invincible Link away via Warpega.


----------



## Schneider (Jan 1, 2009)

There's a reason why Dante can use Holy Water to obliterate demons while he himself is unharmed. Dante also faced Beowulf, a holy-based demon, and got a weapon from it as well. By your logic Dante would die when he uses Beowulf, which is ridiculous.

And unless the Master Sword can finish him in one hit, he'll simply keep regenerating.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 1, 2009)

He ever had Holy Water in an open wound? I imagine that wouldn't sit nearly as well with him.
Though if you want one-hit finished, I call in an Ice Arrow -> Ganondorf Parry Attack combo. You know, the flying headstab that turned Ganondorf to stone. Yeah. That.

Dante ever have a holy sword through his face?


----------



## Shinkirou (Jan 1, 2009)

Onomatopoeia said:


> The point of his "EG" Link is to combine the inventories of all the LoZ games into a single whole for this particular Link to access as he pleases. It's not a matter of them being different people.



Oh, I know, I was just saying that to point out a technicality.



Referee said:


> He ever had Holy Water in an open wound? I imagine that wouldn't sit nearly as well with him.
> Though if you want one-hit finished, I call in an Ice Arrow -> Ganondorf Parry Attack combo. You know, the flying headstab that turned Ganondorf to stone. Yeah. That.
> 
> Dante ever have a holy sword through his face?



Holy sword, no, but hes been completely impaled by a magic, then stood up, pulling the guard and hilt through his body. I dont recall him ever being weak to holy anything honestly, though I could be forgetting something.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 1, 2009)

Impaled by magic, you say? Was this through the face? Or are you talking about that damn scene with Alastor that started all this? x___x;


----------



## Schneider (Jan 1, 2009)

Dante never shows any weaknesses to magic, or any particular element. Still, I wonder if Dante can use his in-game power Quicksilver.


----------



## Purgatory (Jan 1, 2009)

Why does everyone neglect Dante's Instantaneous Teleportation? Has no one ever played DMC with his levelled-up stats?



Schneider said:


> Dante never shows any weaknesses to magic, or any particular element. Still, I wonder if Dante can use his in-game power Quicksilver.



It says game feats, so..why not?


----------



## Shinkirou (Jan 1, 2009)

Referee said:


> Impaled by magic, you say? Was this through the face? Or are you talking about that damn scene with Alastor that started all this? x___x;



I was talking about Alastor. It was a magical sword was it not? 

And no, not through the face. Hes taken bullets to the face and tanked a motorcycle exploding at point blank range however.



Schneider said:


> Dante never shows any weaknesses to magic, or any particular element. Still, I wonder if Dante can use his in-game power Quicksilver.



It says no time-stop abilities, and while Dantes quicksilver isn't technically time _stop_, I think this was one of the things the original poster had in mind when he said that.


----------



## Enclave (Jan 1, 2009)

Referee said:


> Fine, how 'bout this? When fighting Roxas in KH2:FM, Sora was in danger of being killed as per storyline. Roxas had him on his knee and disarmed. Never mind the whole Matrix battle before that. So why didn't he pull out of his ass a game-winning animespeed flank, or just teleport blitz Roxas? His _life_ very nearly came to depend on it. Why would he show restraint?
> Maybe he wasn't. Maybe what he was showing was inability due to situational powers not being active. ^______^



Because Roxas isn't Sora's equal in every respect

/end sarcasm

See, it's exactly what I said before.  Both of them were slowed down so we could actually see what was going on.  If they were shown on screen going as fast as they both were capable of, we wouldn't be able to see what was going on at all.

Seriously, this is such an easy concept.


----------



## Schneider (Jan 1, 2009)

Then Dante with Quicksilver beats Link hands down. Base Dante is already pretty much supersonic and casual bullet timer. With Quicksilver he easily reaches hypersonic speeds, and more importantly his guns also gets the speed burst.

@Purgatory
Unless I'm forgetting something, I didn't recall anyone beside Vergil with Dark Slayer style who had instant teleportation.


----------



## Narcissus (Jan 1, 2009)

> *Originally Posted by Referee*
> Fine, how 'bout this? When fighting Roxas in KH2:FM, Sora was in danger of being killed as per storyline. Roxas had him on his knee and disarmed. Never mind the whole Matrix battle before that. So why didn't he pull out of his ass a game-winning animespeed flank, or just teleport blitz Roxas? His life very nearly came to depend on it. Why would he show restraint?
> Maybe he wasn't. Maybe what he was showing was inability due to situational powers not being active. ^______^



More like Sora didn't need those abilities; all he had to do was call his Keyblade back to himself and attack.


----------



## Shinkirou (Jan 1, 2009)

Disorderly Conduct said:


> More like Sora didn't need those abilities; all he had to do was call his Keyblade back to himself and attack.



You've got a point. Why go through the effort of doing some super fancy move that could easily be countered when you can just summon your weapon and catch the other guy off guard?


----------



## Bleeding Mascara (Jan 1, 2009)

I root for link but know Dante would win in the end XD


----------



## Marth6789 (Jan 1, 2009)

Link puts on fierce diety mask, and kills them both.
Edit: Link has his own Deus ex machina too, the triforce.


----------



## Schneider (Jan 1, 2009)

So Link puts his mask at massively hypersonic+ speed? Holy shit.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 1, 2009)

Schneider said:


> Then Dante with Quicksilver beats Link hands down. Base Dante is already pretty much supersonic and casual bullet timer. With Quicksilver he easily reaches hypersonic speeds, and more importantly his guns also gets the speed burst.



Quicksilver and other such time manipulation abilities and items are not allowed.


----------



## Rashou (Jan 1, 2009)

Referee said:


> He ever had Holy Water in an open wound? I imagine that wouldn't sit nearly as well with him.
> Though if you want one-hit finished, I call in an Ice Arrow -> Ganondorf Parry Attack combo. You know, the flying headstab that turned Ganondorf to stone. Yeah. That.
> 
> Dante ever have a holy sword through his face?



Dante slices bullets in half. Arrows are far too slow to hit him. And a blood lusted Dante would start the match off with a shot to the head for both of his opponents. Sora could block it, but Link, on the other hand...


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 1, 2009)

Fairy in a bottle FTW! ^_^


----------



## Rashou (Jan 1, 2009)

I could honestly see Dante shooting the fairy, lol.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 1, 2009)

Umm......LOOK A BEAR! *runs off*


----------



## Narcissus (Jan 1, 2009)

The only thing that is known to kill a fairy is to say "I don't believe in fairies" outloud. ^_^


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 1, 2009)

Or Sora could just sumon his own fairy to get that fairy to help him instead.


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 1, 2009)

Let's go through all of this again...
Sora can jump into his ship and fly around.
Link can drink milk and use his hax to become invincible for 3 days each of them., and he has 5 bottles.

What can Dante do?
Also, what is the best speedfeat of Link?
I don't think I got any answers to that one.


----------



## Marth6789 (Jan 1, 2009)

Link puts on his rupee armor along with the 10,000 rupee bag form Wind Waker.


----------



## Azure Flame Fright (Jan 1, 2009)

Link doesn't have any speedfeats, just h4xx3d items.


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 1, 2009)

Marth6789 said:


> Link puts on his rupee armor along with the 10,000 rupee bag form Wind Waker.


He has to do it fast as well, otherwise he loses.


Azure Flame Kite said:


> Link doesn't have any speedfeats, just h4xx3d items.


Then he loses, since he won't get time to drink the milk or do anything else.


----------



## Marth6789 (Jan 1, 2009)

Ax_ said:


> He has to do it fast as well, otherwise he loses.
> 
> Then he loses, since he won't get time to drink the milk or do anything else.



Nah, not really. Link's Dues ex Machina(triforce), exceeds Sora's because he has to win in the end.


----------



## Azure Flame Fright (Jan 1, 2009)

Ax_ said:


> Then he loses, since he won't get time to drink the milk or do anything else.



I know, especially since both of the other characters can time stop.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 1, 2009)

> I know, especially since both of the other characters can time stop.



Yeah except, you know, not.


----------



## Azure Flame Fright (Jan 1, 2009)

Dante can't stop time? 

I could swear something like that happened in a DMC game.


----------



## Enclave (Jan 1, 2009)

Dante can slow time, not stop it.

Anyways, what's stopping Sora from say picking Link up and just tossing him into a lake or something?  Sora after all does have some pretty sick strength feats.  Sure, it won't actually stop Link, but it will definitely give Sora a laugh.

Honestly, the best Link can do is delay the inevitable.  Eventually Sora is going to win the fight, might take a few days but he will win this.  It's not like Link has the capability to actually beat Sora.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 1, 2009)

Azure Flame Kite said:


> Dante can't stop time?
> 
> I could swear something like that happened in a DMC game.



Check the first sentence of the OP. And no, you can't use the technicality of him only slowing down time, that little argument's already been covered and dismissed.


----------



## Azure Flame Fright (Jan 1, 2009)

1. No one in the OBD reads the OP.

2. No one in the OBD goes back and rereads what's been covered in a thread before posting.


----------



## Vault (Jan 1, 2009)

Azure Flame Kite said:


> 1. No one in the OBD reads the OP.
> 
> 2. No one in the OBD goes back and rereads what's been covered in a thread before posting.



Unless the thread is epic


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 1, 2009)

Sora can probably keep up for the days. Remember when he beat one thousand heartless in a row without the slightest hint of exaustion in the cutscenes?
And it's not "here's one, then another, then two, then eight", no, it was one thousand solders, at the same fucking time.


----------



## Narcissus (Jan 1, 2009)

Link and Dante won't be doing anything after Sora jumps in his Gummi Ship and rains hell down on them.


----------



## Purgatory (Jan 1, 2009)

Disorderly Conduct said:


> Link and Dante won't be doing anything after Sora jumps in his Gummi Ship and rains hell down on them.



Not if Sora doesn't have hands to pilot it.


----------



## Schneider (Jan 1, 2009)

Dante had stopped time in a cutscene. But after that he only gets to slow down time for the sake of gameplay.

Still, without those, the ranks go:

1. Sora
2. Dante
3. Link


----------



## Purgatory (Jan 2, 2009)

Sora can't do anything if he gets killed first by someone who can _instantaneously teleport_


----------



## Enclave (Jan 2, 2009)

Yea, and who can instantaneously teleport?  On top of that, if it's Link what makes you think Sora wouldn't be able to counter?  It's not like Sora doesn't have vastly faster reaction times than Link.

Also, it isn't like Sora has never fought people who can teleport.


----------



## Purgatory (Jan 2, 2009)

Enclave said:


> Yea, and who can instantaneously teleport?  On top of that, if it's Link what makes you think Sora wouldn't be able to counter?  It's not like Sora doesn't have vastly faster reaction times than Link.
> 
> Also, it isn't like Sora has never fought people who can teleport.



I was referring to Dante's SkyStar abilities.


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 2, 2009)

Purgatory said:


> I was referring to Dante's SkyStar abilities.



How fast is Dante's reaction time?
Because that is what limits that ability.

Also, Sora has a teleportation move as well, which I believe was already stated in this thread.


----------



## Schneider (Jan 2, 2009)

Casual bullet timer. He dodged some rounds of Lady's sub-machine gun at point blank range. If it counts, he also faced lasers before in gameplay.

Also, Vergil always teleports in his battles. And Dante won.


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 2, 2009)

Schneider said:


> Casual bullet timer. He dodged some rounds of Lady's sub-machine gun at point blank range. If it counts, he also faced lasers before in gameplay.
> 
> Also, Vergil always teleports in his battles. And Dante won.



Let me just ask you one thing: do you REALLY want to bring in lasers in games here, considering what Sora did against Twilight Xemnas and his 1000 laser attack coming from pretty much everywhere?
Because I'd be happy to allow this to be about who has dealt with lasers in their game, if that is what you want.

And Vergil was the one teleporting?
Well, isn't that funny, so can Sephiroth from KH 2, as well as a member of the Organization called Xigbar.
Sora beat them both.

I can play this game just as well as you can, my friend.
Only I can bring up more stuff than you.


----------



## Schneider (Jan 2, 2009)

Actually, why not? Say, how fast do you propose Xemnas' lasers (or every tennis ball lasers in KH) to be? Dante faced  kind of lasers from fodders. Yes, if you validate what happens in the game, Dante has _FTL_ reflexes.:ho

You missed the point didn't you.
My point was that Dante reacts well with teleporting enemies (and one of those is Vergil). Actually, fodders in DMC pretty much teleports as well. Dante's teleportation is in his Trickster style. And what does Sora beating Seph and Xigbar has anything to do with that?

Finally, one harmless question: Have you played DMC 1-3?


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 2, 2009)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuQSbb06em0[/YOUTUBE]
Look at around 6:20 or so.
If we got with lasers, this is really hard to beat.
And if we go by fodder, Xigbar has his own Heartless which can shoot lasers at you as well, IIRC.
Sorry about any possibly sound problems, my computer can't play any music or give me any sound currently.

The point I was making with that was that I assumed you were trying to imply that because Dante could teleport he would win.
And finally, Sora is easily capable of matching teleporting enemies as well, so that isn't something to be happy about in this fight, either, as those enemies can show, since both of them can teleport.

A complete game?
No, I couldn't get into it. Dante seemed too forced for me, and the gameplay could have been more fun, IMO.
But it isn't that hard to get all the info you need from watching youtube Lets play movies, and things like that.

So, with that, please post some vids of Dante having all of what you say.


----------



## Schneider (Jan 2, 2009)

This is the vid of the fodder. Can't find a good vid about it but it's decent imo. It's right after the light reflection puzzle.


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 2, 2009)

They appear instantly...
Shouldn't that mean Sora is even faster, since the lasers are slowed down?

I'm assuming the teleportation is in the first couple of seconds?
Pretty decent, but nothing Sora hasn't deal with before, if nothing else than from a couple of stuff Twilight Xemnas did.
I think Terra did so as well, at one point.


----------



## Schneider (Jan 2, 2009)

The instant appearance is just the laser replicating IRL laser's nature. Lasers in DMC3 is closer to IRL lasers more than KH lasers will ever be (especially Xemnas' stuff). And if you go by the animation speed, Xem's laser animation moves actually slower than the guns at Port Royal.

And we're on agreement that Link is the last in this match, no?


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 2, 2009)

actually, Dante fails to outspeed those laseres. He dodges them when the beam is traveling sideways, but not when it's shooting like with 1000 lasers.
Also, Dante has nothing Sora can't reflect, and there is still the little problem of Trinity lock, Heart Lock and the space ship

Also Mansex is clearly a light manipulator.


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 2, 2009)

Schneider said:


> The instant appearance is just the laser replicating IRL laser's nature. Lasers in DMC3 is closer to IRL lasers more than KH lasers will ever be (especially Xemnas' stuff). And if you go by the animation speed, Xem's laser animation moves actually slower than the guns at Port Royal.


Which is because Sora got a powerup between those two worlds.
You know, completely absorbing Roxas and all that, you even get a Form out of it?
There is also the fact that Sora stands his ground and hits them away from himself, unlike what Dante does.



> And we're on agreement that Link is the last in this match, no?



Seeing as how Link has to drink milk and use items just to be anything remotely resembling a threat, I don't really have anything to offer up for his side.
Then again, I'm not really arguing for Link here, so it doesn't really matter all that much to me, one way or the other.

@Banhammer
Actually, Roxas is the one who can use light.
T. Xemnas uses either Nothing or Darkness, I don't remember which...


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 2, 2009)

I though he was both.
Light screens, lasers, light sabers, etc...


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 2, 2009)

Banhammer said:


> I though he was both.
> Light screens, lasers, light sabers, etc...



Nah, that pretty much belongs to Roxas, as seen in vids showing his fight in FM+
He does all of the Light stuff, really.

Xemnas seems to be more along the lines of darkness, though I guess he could be some form of combo between light and dark, being a Nobody and all.


----------



## Rashou (Jan 2, 2009)

Xemnas was Nothingness, I think.


----------



## Schneider (Jan 2, 2009)

Ax_ said:


> Which is because Sora got a powerup between those two worlds.
> You know, completely absorbing Roxas and all that, you even get a Form out of it?
> There is also the fact that Sora stands his ground and hits them away from himself, unlike what Dante does.



But strangely, nothing changed after that power up. All the bullet-involved fodders still fire faster than Xem's lasers throughout the worlds. 



Banhammer said:


> actually, Dante fails to outspeed those laseres. He dodges them when the beam is traveling sideways, but not when it's shooting like with 1000 lasers.
> Also, Dante has nothing Sora can't reflect, and there is still the little problem of Trinity lock, Heart Lock and the space ship



You can always have Dante face upfront the laser directly and deflect it.

Same with reflect, there's nothing that Dante can't Just Guard and Just Release. The difference is that JG and JR can stack up damage (kinda like Feitan's Pain Packer without taking damage), while Reflect instanteously releases energy.


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 2, 2009)

Schneider said:


> But strangely, nothing changed after that power up. All the bullet-involved fodders still fire faster than Xem's lasers throughout the worlds.


Man, it's been awhile playing that game...
But still, what enemies at that part were firing bullets at the time?




> You can always have Dante face upfront the laser directly and deflect it.


Mind showing that?



> Same with reflect, there's nothing that Dante can't Just Guard and Just Release. The difference is that JG and JR can stack up damage (kinda like Feitan's Pain Packer without taking damage), while Reflect instanteously releases energy.



What is so bad with that?
Every attack Dante tries will just end up immediately reflected, you know.
And do you have a vid of Dante being able to do what you say he does?
Also, has he done some of the sun stuff Sora does, like play tennis with himself like that?


----------



## Rashou (Jan 2, 2009)

Here's Dante's Just guarding and releasing stuff. 
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcTKOh-h6-Q[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Schneider (Jan 2, 2009)

Some Heartlesses scattered throughout the worlds. If the pirate fodders at Port Royal is gone, try the cannon ball Heartless . Though I kinda wonder if you can play with the ship cannons at Port Royal. Can't play it now since my disc broke, gotta buy a new one.

You can play it yourself. Just get Royal Guard style leveled up and go hit some fodders or go fight the boss in the vid.  

Dante hasn't done the tennis part. If you're asking for Just Guard and Just Release, playing it yourself would be the best, or just look for vids like you said.


----------



## Purgatory (Jan 2, 2009)

Banhammer said:


> actually, Dante fails to outspeed those laseres. He dodges them when the beam is traveling sideways, but not when it's shooting like with 1000 lasers.
> Also, Dante has nothing Sora can't reflect, and there is still the little problem of Trinity lock, Heart Lock and the space ship
> 
> Also Mansex is clearly a light manipulator.



Apparently, you forgot about this reaction time.


----------



## Enclave (Jan 2, 2009)

Schneider said:


> But strangely, nothing changed after that power up. All the bullet-involved fodders still fire faster than Xem's lasers throughout the worlds.



Welcome to the world of gameplay mechanics.  Honestly, how do people not get the diffrence between gameplay mechanics and storyline capabilities?  It's the simplest concept in the world.


----------



## Platinum (Jan 2, 2009)

I believe you guys are seriously underestimating Dante. I mean he can casually shoot his own opponents bullets out of the sky and he can regenerate.He probably wouldn't win but he can damage to both of them.


----------



## Enclave (Jan 2, 2009)

Platnium said:


> I believe you guys are seriously underestimating Dante. I mean he can casually shoot his own opponents bullets out of the sky and he can regenerate.He probably wouldn't win but he can damage to both of them.



It isn't that everybody is underestimating Dante, it's that Sora should be fully capable of defeating him and added to that a few Link fans have been trying to wank him off a fair bit so there's been a fair bit of talking in regards to that.  Really, Link is the weakest guy in this fight.  He doesn't really have anything that will let him stand up to Dante let alone Sora.  All Link can really do is delay the inevitable.


----------



## Purgatory (Jan 2, 2009)

Enclave said:


> It isn't that everybody is underestimating Dante, it's that Sora should be fully capable of defeating him and added to that a few Link fans have been trying to wank him off a fair bit so there's been a fair bit of talking in regards to that.  Really, Link is the weakest guy in this fight.  He doesn't really have anything that will let him stand up to Dante let alone Sora.  All Link can really do is delay the inevitable.



Why are you ignoring Dante's ability to instantaneously teleport via SkyStar? It allows him to teleport nearby his enemies for easier reach and another way to avoid getting hit.


----------



## Platinum (Jan 2, 2009)

Enclave said:


> It isn't that everybody is underestimating Dante, it's that Sora should be fully capable of defeating him and added to that a few Link fans have been trying to wank him off a fair bit so there's been a fair bit of talking in regards to that.  Really, Link is the weakest guy in this fight.  He doesn't really have anything that will let him stand up to Dante let alone Sora.  All Link can really do is delay the inevitable.



But how would Sora kill Dante as he has insane regeneration and could probably keep up with Sora without his hax summons.

Really what is stopping Dante from just shooting Link with Ebony and Ivory right at the start of the fight i doubt Link is a bullet timer.


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 2, 2009)

Schneider said:


> Some Heartlesses scattered throughout the worlds. If the pirate fodders at Port Royal is gone, try the cannon ball Heartless . Though I kinda wonder if you can play with the ship cannons at Port Royal. Can't play it now since my disc broke, gotta buy a new one.


Man, that is rough.
That happened to me once, just when I was going to beat that asshole Xemnas. Had to get buy one over the internet, since the store near me was out of KH 2. Took me a couple of weeks just to get it...
But I wasn't really fighting the Heartless at that point anymore, IIRC.

Still, this should be more about gameplay than anything, since I doubt the makers of the game wanted you to go back just to fight fodder Heartless after coming all the way to the final world, so to speak.



> You can play it yourself. Just get Royal Guard style leveled up and go hit some fodders or go fight the boss in the vid.


Don't really feel like it.
I mean, you are the one arguing for Dante, so you should be the one providing proof when need be.



Purgatory said:


> Why are you ignoring Dante's ability to instantaneously teleport via SkyStar? It allows him to teleport nearby his enemies for easier reach and another way to avoid getting hit.



Because Sora can do the same?
And Sora has dealt with enemies that can do this, as well?

@Platnium
He has dealt with a regenerating enemy before, namely the Hydra, in the story. Just look at how the Hydra ended up fighting Sora.
I mean, it can regenerate its head into 2 new ones.
Pretty decent regeneration there, if you ask me.
So regeneration isn't a problem here.


----------



## Platinum (Jan 2, 2009)

@AX

So how is Sora going to kill Dante? Also Dante's regeneration is far superior to the Hydra's.


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 2, 2009)

Platnium said:


> @AX
> 
> So how is Sora going to kill Dante? Also Dante's regeneration is far superior to the Hydra's.



Multiple casual sckyscraper cutting attacks?

And can Dante grow 2 heads for every 1 that gets cut off or something equivalent?


----------



## Schneider (Jan 2, 2009)

Dante doesn't grow limbs after they're cut. He only had some blood spurt out and that's it, nothing happened.

@Ax
I'm sorry I can't put up some DMC3 vids you wanted. I don't have a recorder at me currently, I'll put it up some time later when I get one.


----------



## Enclave (Jan 3, 2009)

Platnium said:


> @AX
> 
> So how is Sora going to kill Dante? Also Dante's regeneration is far superior to the Hydra's.



Sora has killed flat out immortal beings, I don't think somebody who regenerates will be all that difficult to kill.

See, it's possible to kill Dante, it's just difficult to.  However it's perfectly within the capabilities of somebody like Sora.


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 3, 2009)

Oh he'll start by hacking his body parts away and then go from there.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 3, 2009)

Jeez, I'm offline for a couple of days thanks to getting a new computer and you guys are still on about this? e_____e
I can't remember every argument that's been tossed at me, so I'll just to off the top of my head...

Going back to Sora not using teleportation against Roxas, I still think the battle woulda been a hell of a lot easier for him if he'd just appeared behind Roxas and shanked him. He wouldn't've needed to pull out that last trick of summoning his sword back. But he didn't.
Harder battle, more time and energy wasted, and all for what? "He just didn't WANNA use it D=<"?

About stabbing Link before he goes invincible. Goddamn, people, how many times do I have to say this? He. Activates. The. Magic. First. Thing. THEN he drinks the milk, starting on a combo that extends the magic to 15 days.

To everybody saying "Dante/Sora would easily dodge the arrows/Sword Beams," explain how that's gonna happen when they're INVISIBLE. The Magic Cape makes Link and all his stuff invincible AND invisible. Can't be seen and can't be hurt.
I don't care how fast Sora and Dante are, they are not dodging for 15 days straight a series of projectile attacks that they cannot even see.

And back to Alastor through the chest, that was a Lightning sword. The Master Sword is a Light sword. To say that they're the same is like saying that you can kill a vampire with an L-shaped Tetris block because it's kinda like a cross.

...That's all I can remember. If I forgot anyone, feel free to remind me.


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 3, 2009)

Invisibility is not an issue for Sora. See the Chaemleon Heartless.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 3, 2009)

Flawed invisibility, sure. There's a difference between blending in with your surroundings and making light completely pass through your body. As far as I know, Link's invisibility doesn't shimmer or cut out.
And again (again again again again again e_____e), even if Sora could somehow see Link, there's that invincibility to consider.

Plus, as before, if Link replicates with the Four Sword and they all take out their Ice Arrows, one lucky shot opens Sora up to a world of hurt. What can he do when he's frozen in place, fully-body? Absolute 0 degrees Kelvin isn't very forgiving.


----------



## Platinum (Jan 3, 2009)

Referee so what if at the beginning of the fight Dante just shoots Link with Ebony and Ivory before he is invulnerable. Is Link a bullet timer?



Enclave said:


> Sora has killed flat out immortal beings



Isn't that a contradiction as you cannot kill a true immortal?

Who are you talking about anyways Hades?


----------



## Densoro (Jan 3, 2009)

You say that as though Dante can draw and raise his gun, draw bead, and fire all before Link comes in contact with the Cape. The transition is instant.
He's doubly likely to survive if we've got CIS in effect. Those damn DMC guys spend so much time with foolish posturing.
EDIT: Also, Link's got a shield and a brain, y'know. He sees Dante motion for a gun, up goes the shield while his other hand heads even faster for the Magic Cape.


----------



## Platinum (Jan 3, 2009)

Referee said:


> You say that as though Dante can draw and raise his gun, draw bead, and fire all before Link comes in contact with the Cape. The transition is instant.
> He's doubly likely to survive if we've got CIS in effect. Those damn DMC guys spend so much time with foolish posturing.
> EDIT: Also, Link's got a shield and a brain, y'know. He sees Dante motion for a gun, up goes the shield while his other hand heads even faster for the Magic Cape.



If CIS is in effect then Link isn't suddenly going to put on all his items and drink the invulnerability milk either. And i thought you said the cape just makes him invisible so bullets will still harm him.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 3, 2009)

*sigh*...
...*headdesk headdesk headdesk cry*

Okay. Repeating again. Again again. Add those ad naseum. The Magic Cape makes Link IMMUNE TO DAMAGE as well as IMPOSSIBLE TO SEE for as long as he has mana. Which, with Chateau Romani, will be 3 days a pop, etc.
I was mostly kidding about the first part though. It's not that exasperating, having to repeat myself 6+ times.

Your point about CIS is arguable. If Link sees an enemy that's gonna spam melee range, he'll draw his sword in most cutscenes. But when an enemy's packing heat, I'm guessing he'll be more careful. Bombs are hell enough as is. Cannons are even worse.
He knows how bitchy guns can be and isn't about to put up with it.


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 3, 2009)

Platnium said:


> Referee so what if at the beginning of the fight Dante just shoots Link with Ebony and Ivory before he is invulnerable. Is Link a bullet timer?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You can with a keyblade. Alot of things that cannot be killed by any conventional means can only be busted by the Kblade. Something to do with soulfucking that needs to be more specified in upcoming games.


Also, what does link have that could bother Sora? Fucker tanks sky scrapers and towers godfire and titan cold hurled at him without much hassle, and should he be too bothered, he can just heal up himself. Invisibility is not gonna be that much of a defense, and he also has huge stamina (not to mention, one could argue he can just heal himself from fatigue).
Not to mention, fucker flies. Aeriral strikes fTW.


----------



## Platinum (Jan 3, 2009)

Referee said:


> Your point about CIS is arguable. If Link sees an enemy that's gonna spam melee range, he'll draw his sword in most cutscenes. But when an enemy's packing heat, I'm guessing he'll be more careful. Bombs are hell enough as is. Cannons are even worse.
> He knows how bitchy guns can be and isn't about to put up with it.



So Link in character will just use all of his items at the start of any match then? obviously not, which would leave him open to an assault from Dante. do you think Link can dodge or block this? 



You are just assuming that Link would use his strongest abilities and techniques right off the bat.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 3, 2009)

He would if he saw that. Not every fight takes half an hour to 'get serious.' There are some where it's obvious. Somebody hauling in the 12-81 Compensator makes for one of those fights.
Though honestly, yes, I do think his shield arm could hold out against that. OoT Link was able to hold out against King Dodongo bodyslamming his shield. TP Link with Power Bracelets and Golden Gauntlets wouldn't falter in the slightest. But I'd rather not keep Link behind his shield forever.
EDIT: Also, it's not 'all his items.' It's TWO >___>; Let's not exaggerate my point until it sounds idiotic.


----------



## Enclave (Jan 3, 2009)

Platnium said:


> Isn't that a contradiction as you cannot kill a true immortal?
> 
> Who are you talking about anyways Hades?



He killed Jafar's Genie as well as pirates under the Aztec curse, both beings that are supposed to be unkillable.  Oh and he also killed a Heartless that was under the Aztec Curse.  See, that's just how hax the Keyblade is.


----------



## The Saltiest Pizza (Jan 3, 2009)

Enclave said:


> He killed Jafar's Genie as well as pirates under the Aztec curse, both beings that are supposed to be unkillable.  Oh and he also killed a Heartless that was under the Aztec Curse.  See, that's just how hax the Keyblade is.



Incase you didn't remember, WHILE those pirates and the heartless were in their cursed form, he couldn't do shit to them until they were out of the moonlight, or for the Heartless, used his own weapon to knock the coins out of him and return them so he could hurt him.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 3, 2009)

> He killed Jafar's Genie a


That hardly counts. He threw the lamp into the lava as I recall.


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 3, 2009)

He was pwning them though.


----------



## mystictrunks (Jan 3, 2009)

Enclave said:


> He killed Jafar's Genie as well as pirates under the Aztec curse, both beings that are supposed to be unkillable.  Oh and he also killed a Heartless that was under the Aztec Curse.  See, that's just how hax the Keyblade is.





That stuff never happened. He trapped Jafar in his lamp, and could only hurt pirates in moonlight.


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 3, 2009)

but he did hurt them, something impossible to their world, wether there was moonlight or not.


----------



## Enclave (Jan 3, 2009)

Madara42 said:


> Incase you didn't remember, WHILE those pirates and the heartless were in their cursed form, he couldn't do shit to them until they were out of the moonlight, or for the Heartless, used his own weapon to knock the coins out of him and return them so he could hurt him.



Actually, they had to be in moon light to defeat the pirates.  However if you recall to conventional weapons the pirates were still invulnerable even when in the moon light.  However Sora's Keyblade and his magic were able to defeat them.

Also, the heartless.  Yes he had to knock the coins out of him.  However you do know that doesn't actually break the curse right?  To break the curse you need to put the blood of the person who took the coin and then put it back in the chest.  Sora though thanks to his hax weapon was able to bypass that little part.  Honestly, you don't get much more DEM than the Keyblade.

Seriously, play the game again, you'll see I'm quite right.



mystictrunks said:


> That stuff never happened. He trapped Jafar in his lamp, and could only hurt pirates in moonlight.



Actually, it did happen.  Play it again.  After Sora defeats Jafar he gets forced into his lamp, then his lap gets destroyed in a puff of black smoke.  Now if the lamp isn't actually destroyed, well we need to wait for KH3 to find that out.  However as things currently stand it does appear to have been destroyed.



Onomatopoeia said:


> That hardly counts. He threw the lamp into the lava as I recall.



No he didn't.  There was no lava around when Sora fought him in KH2.  In KH1 there was lava around, however the lamp wasn't thrown into it, Iago flew away with the lamp in the 1st game.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 3, 2009)

KH2 doesn't count period. The Keyblade was turned into "Keyblade Ex Machina" instead of just "super-important magic weapon".


----------



## Densoro (Jan 3, 2009)

About the 'conventional weaponry vs cursed pirates' bit, Will was able to blow a couple of them up. Fought that mad bomber pirate, took one of his grenades, shoved it into the guy's ribs, then pushed him out of the moonlight. He skin came back on, the grenade stayed inside, boom.

I had Explosion as a finisher by the time I was there. So the pirates were exploded ^___^ Not haxxed, just magic'd.


----------



## Enclave (Jan 3, 2009)

The argument of somebody who has no comeback.  I love when that happens.

Also, I fully admit that the Keyblade became a DEM weapon in KH2.  However KH2 is quite canon so there you have it.  Course what was even more DEM than the Keyblade was the light in Sora's heart.  Now THAT was DEM.  If the Keyblade couldn't do something in a situation the light in Sora's heart could (such as creating a door to the world of light that just happened to send them to the upper atmosphere of Destiny Islands when Sora and Riku were trapped in the World of Darkness.  Not even Mickey pulled that kind of hax out of nowhere.)



Referee said:


> About the 'conventional weaponry vs cursed pirates' bit, Will was able to blow a couple of them up. Fought that mad bomber pirate, took one of his grenades, shoved it into the guy's ribs, then pushed him out of the moonlight. He skin came back on, the grenade stayed inside, boom.
> 
> I had Explosion as a finisher by the time I was there. So the pirates were exploded ^___^ Not haxxed, just magic'd.



Technically speaking, that pirate in the movie would still have been "alive", he just wouldn't have been able to actually do much of anything.  Sora on the other hand was able to kill the pirates, as in kill them good and properly with the Keyblade and his own magic.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 3, 2009)

You're absolutely sure they were good and properly dead, and not just unable to actually do much of anything?


----------



## Enclave (Jan 3, 2009)

Referee said:


> You're absolutely sure they were good and properly dead, and not just unable to actually do much of anything?



Yes, they were good and properly dead.  Did you not play that part of the game?  There was a whole voice acted part of that world where it went on how Sora could kill them.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 3, 2009)

o_O Not ringing any bells. Got a video of it? Or at least a general idea of how early on it's said in whichever trip to Port Royal?


----------



## Enclave (Jan 3, 2009)

It's quite early on in Port Royal.  I think the first time you visit the world that it happens.


----------



## Rashou (Jan 3, 2009)

If Sora has abilities from all of his games, then he has access to Warpega, so invincibility doesn't matter as he can just Warp Link away. Although I still don't see how Link could make it past the opening Gambit with Dante fighting- Dante has guns, which could project bullets at multiples of the speed of sound. I don't know of a speed feat that puts Link above that. From the opening of the match Dante could casually shoot Link in the head as Link is thinking "okay, put on my magic cape" or some such.


----------



## Schneider (Jan 3, 2009)

Dante's invincible with Just Guard, Sora is invincible with Reflect, Link invincible with Magic Cape and some milk. 

K Mr. Referee, unless you give him infinite amount of bottles, Link's shit would eventually go down, outlasted by Sora, whose SP can regen infinitely, and outlasted further by Dante, who can Just Guard anywhere anytime without taking anything.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 4, 2009)

As much as I search, the only Warpaga I can find in KH2 is some Gummi ship part, so I'm starting to doubt its existence =/

Now, adding in passive equipment such as the Blue Bracelet and the heart barrier, each of which reduce damage by half, Link's only taking one-quarter damage. And personally, I'd run around with the Protection Ring on, which reduces all damage to one heart. With those other two, it's a quarter of a heart. A scratch.

That's all stuff that I'd come into the battle wearing. Plus, of course, 99 Force Fairies waiting to revive me ^^ 

So all this business about shooting Link first means little. He'll have a scratch on his forehead, but 15 days on invincibility more than make up for that. And who knows? He may find a heal lying in the grass.

Now then. Sora's MP has a point where needs to recharge, from what I remember of KH2. The bar fills with red and that starts leaking down until you can use magic again. What stops four InvisiLinks from freezing him solid at this point and beating (or blasting, cutting, torching, etc) the hell out of him?

Similarly, is there anything special about Dante's guard that would negate the magic in the tip of an Ice Arrow as it hits his sword? Because if not, I'd see him getting frozen sword-arm first, then it spreads all along his body. This wouldn't be helped by people shooting more Ice at him.
Which reminds me. Is the guard omnidirectional, or can he only block one side at a time? If they silently, invisibly surround him, can he block it all without seeing it?


----------



## Enclave (Jan 4, 2009)

Ouch, you brought up Sora's MP recharge eh?  By the end of the game that's pretty much a total non-issue.  You realise how many abilities he has that increases the regen speed of his magic?  He can pretty much spam all his spells basically non-stop once you get far enough.

Anyways, Link having equipment that reduces all damage to 1 heart is likely a no limits fallacy.  Just because in his game he never encountered anything that could deal enough damage doesn't mean other characters cannot dish it out.  After all, he never took hits in his game from somebody who can casually cut skyscrapers into bits or play baseball with em.


----------



## Schneider (Jan 4, 2009)

Just Guard gives invincibility to Dante, from lasers to sword slashes to light beams and it stacks up damage to be released by Just Release. Mainly, this is the reason why Royal Guard is the most broken style in game, it deals shitloads of damage and the invincibility feature. Also, it can protect Dante from all sides. 

It's actually pretty good idea to Just Release after bulking up for full 15 days.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 4, 2009)

To be fair, those skyscrapers couldn't've been in the best shape after the earthquake that Xemnas put them through. And as to the baseball, that was in space. The buildings were levitating, so it seems fair to say that there was some weightlessness going on. Ignoring the fact that the action defied an obvious law of physics (equal and opposite reactions; he shoulda been sent flying backwards as fast as the building flew forwards), it's not quite as amazing as people think. If you put Link into space and gave him an immunity to aforementioned law, he could likely replicate the feat with any claymore. Particularly with Power Bracelets and Golden Gauntlets stacked on.
That's not to say any old kid on the street could do it. Don't get me wrong, it's not an everyman feat. But it's not exactly Dragonball Z, either.

About the MP regen. When you say 'far enough,' do you mean from the enemy or through the game? Quad-Link could fairly easily deal with the first, but the second's more problematic.
Another question of semantics (sorry ;^^), when you say 'basically'...Is that an understatement? Can you literally get to the point where you have NO downtime between any two Reflects, or is there a cracked little window of opportunity to land a shot Reflect-free?

Back to Dante, is Just Guard a move within the style, or is it a stance that he can hold steadily? If it's a move, are there any gaps between its uses? If it's a stance, is there any way to break it?


----------



## Narcissus (Jan 4, 2009)

Even if Sora's limit was an issue, it's be easily solved by summoning Bambi before he runs out.

"Genie, show me where Link is!"
"Genie, I wish all of Link's items no longer worked!
Trinity Limit!
Game over! 


Also, just to clarify, Sora never defeated Sephiroth.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 4, 2009)

I actually banned Genie several pages back =/ That's just TOO cheap. One could argue that it's calling in outside forces anyway, but I can forgive any summon except him.


----------



## Schneider (Jan 4, 2009)

Just Guard is a move. So far in the game nothing can bypass Just Guard, well except for crappy players who can't play that style well. It doesn't actually broke, after you use it you spam it again.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 4, 2009)

...Ugh. So what you're telling me is that it's got overlapping spamming just like Reflect, but with no MP restrictions? With literally NO space in time from one casting to another? x_______< That about right?


----------



## Schneider (Jan 4, 2009)

Yes. If any attack comes Just Guard will immediately negate it. In the game that's what happens to good Royal Guard players, while crappy players have little to no chance of using it.


----------



## Narcissus (Jan 4, 2009)

Referee said:


> I actually banned Genie several pages back =/ That's just TOO cheap. One could argue that it's calling in outside forces anyway, but I can forgive any summon except him.





I see.  So you ban his Stop spell, then you ban Genie when it's obvious Sora will win with him, and IIRC, you thought about banning Sora's Gummi Ship.  What next, have him stand still? 

You're basically admitting that overall, Sora is the strongest competitor here, lol.


----------



## Enclave (Jan 4, 2009)

this thread is obviously pointless now.  He's reaching way too much.  Link is screwed, Sora is the clear winner and Dante is the clear runner up.

I honestly don't know why people try putting Link against Sora so often, it's a horribly unfair fight.


----------



## KengouXIII (Jan 4, 2009)

Sora hands down!
he has the most moves and alot of magic


----------



## Freija (Jan 4, 2009)

Referee said:


> No time-stopping abilities. Stats equivalent to those shown in gameplay. Each has all their items and abilities from every game (again, excluding time stop).
> And because I can think of at least one person who'd say it, none of the characters will kill themselves for sucking so much or explode from awesomeness overload >_>
> 
> So yeah. Uh, have at it, I guess.



Devil May Cry Dante ?

Fuck the dude fights so fast that rain stands still around him... that's way beyond the speed of sound, not to mention he's practically invincible... then taking into account his raw power and the fact that he has Devil Trigger...

He also threw his sword down temen-ni-gru so fast that it looked like it was entering earth from the space, and then continued to run up and grab it....

or well, down and grab it.


----------



## Utopia Realm (Jan 4, 2009)

Enclave said:


> this thread is obviously pointless now.  He's reaching way too much.  Link is screwed, Sora is the clear winner and Dante is the clear runner up.
> 
> I honestly don't know why people try putting Link against Sora so often, it's a horribly unfair fight.



I agree...These guys are too fast for link to do shit. He didn't even equalize speed to even the playing field. Funny how he banned time-stopping when that was Link's only redeeming chance to win in this match-up.


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 4, 2009)

Referee said:


> To be fair, those skyscrapers couldn't've been in the best shape after the earthquake that Xemnas put them through. And as to the baseball, that was in space. The buildings were levitating, so it seems fair to say that there was some weightlessness going on. Ignoring the fact that the action defied an obvious law of physics (equal and opposite reactions; he shoulda been sent flying backwards as fast as the building flew forwards), it's not quite as amazing as people think. If you put Link into space and gave him an immunity to aforementioned law, he could likely replicate the feat with any claymore. Particularly with Power Bracelets and Golden Gauntlets stacked on.
> That's not to say any old kid on the street could do it. Don't get me wrong, it's not an everyman feat. But it's not exactly Dragonball Z, either.



You do realize that Xemnas basically has matter creation abilities?
He can bring out skyscrapers like that with no real problem at the time...
So those hadn't suffered any damage prior to what Sora did to them.

And physics isn't something that should be brought up in a obd debate, when a character has already shown feats capable of doing stuff anyway.

I mean, this is a debate between fictional characters...

Also, since this is still going on, did I get any answer on HOW Link woujld manage to put on that cape of his and also drink the milk before he gets horribly speedblitzed?


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 4, 2009)

So... Sora just unlocks Just Guard... What's the doubt?


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 4, 2009)

BWAHAHAH Some of you have no idea who or what Dante is come on guys.  This guy walks around impaled like its nothing.  I love Link but in all honesty Dante would totally destroy these guys. This is Dante casually playing around with Nero while restraining his demon power lol. 

link to vid in utube


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 4, 2009)

Those are cutscenes. This fight uses game mechanics stats.

And Dante would shoot himself in the head early on for being such a loser.


----------



## Purgatory (Jan 4, 2009)

Onomatopoeia said:


> Those are cutscenes. This fight uses game mechanics stats.
> 
> And Dante would shoot himself in the head early on for being such a loser.



Shush, your Sparda Twin bashing isn't allowed in here.


----------



## Freija (Jan 4, 2009)

Onomatopoeia said:


> Those are cutscenes. This fight uses game mechanics stats.
> 
> And Dante would shoot himself in the head early on for being such a loser.



Stinger itself would > Sora's ugly key, not to mention Dante has trickster which is like teleportation, a multiple of devil arms... fucking pandoras box -_-; devil trigger that shoots lighting, the list goes on, he has doppleganger as well.

And an infinite amount of bullets for Ebony and Ivory should more than well take out that Sora.


----------



## Rashou (Jan 4, 2009)

Referee said:


> As much as I search, the only Warpaga I can find in KH2 is some Gummi ship part, so I'm starting to doubt its existence =/


This was my mistake- I meant Warp, and Warpinator from Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories. 



> Now, adding in passive equipment such as the Blue Bracelet and the heart barrier, each of which reduce damage by half, Link's only taking one-quarter damage. And personally, I'd run around with the Protection Ring on, which reduces all damage to one heart. With those other two, it's a quarter of a heart. A scratch.
> 
> That's all stuff that I'd come into the battle wearing. Plus, of course, 99 Force Fairies waiting to revive me ^^
> 
> So all this business about shooting Link first means little. He'll have a scratch on his forehead, but 15 days on invincibility more than make up for that. And who knows? He may find a heal lying in the grass.


Doesn't Link stumble when he's hit regardless of protection items? Dante just keeps shooting, and so long as Sora doesn't interrupt him too much, then Link gets hit the 80 times he needs to be hit to die. Fairies seemingly endlessly revive him, but Dante just keeps firing past all 7290 hearts (assuming 99 Force Fairies all worked and weren't shot first). Perfectly plausible with the Submachine gun many more than one round per second. Although plain old Ebony and Ivory will do the trick too.



> Now then. Sora's MP has a point where needs to recharge, from what I remember of KH2. The bar fills with red and that starts leaking down until you can use magic again. What stops four InvisiLinks from freezing him solid at this point and beating (or blasting, cutting, torching, etc) the hell out of him?


Which won't be much of a problem on two fronts: First off, MP regeneration takes about 20 seconds, with the right equipment (Ultima Weapon) and abilities. Second, he has seven or so items that can instantly allow him to regenerate, along with HP, and he can also use Limit form which blows all the Link's back (even if it doesn't damage them) and will restore MP and HP immediately and give him a new set of powerful attacks. And Sora has repeatedly shown stability from being hit with ice based attacks and then actually being hit. Against the Ice Titan and Vexen he was frozen then pounded on, it just broke the ice. Oh, Sora can also Warpinate them away, and Aeroga works wonders while he's waiting for his MP to regenerate. Oh, and Link only ever has a 50 quiver of arrows, right? That means, split apart to his compatriots evenly, he'll only ever have, at most, 200 arrows Dante and Sora can both survive that many Ice arrows just by breaking out of the ice and healing themselves.


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 4, 2009)

Freija the Dick said:


> Stinger itself would > Sora's ugly key, not to mention Dante has trickster which is like teleportation, a multiple of devil arms... fucking pandoras box -_-; devil trigger that shoots lighting, the list goes on, he has doppleganger as well.
> 
> And an infinite amount of bullets for Ebony and Ivory should more than well take out that Sora.



t being ugly, in your opinion (personally, I rather like Oblivion myself) has nothing to do with this.

Sora has lightning as well, and has dealt with beings who can use that as well.
Reflega still sent them back.

Sora can teleport as well, with trinity, according to people here (never tried it myself, ask others for confirmation).

And infinite number?
Show vid, now.

Also, Sora can summon stuff as well.
Like, say, Stitch with some very decent feats.

He can do this across worlds, as he can summon peter pan as well.
That level of magical power s't bad in any way.

Also, he still has his Gummi Ship, and should be more than fast enough to get into it.

Dante gets raped now.


----------



## Azure Flame Fright (Jan 4, 2009)

Freija the Dick said:


> And an infinite amount of bullets for Ebony and Ivory should more than well take out that Sora.



:rofl


Bullets 

Bullets are too slow to do anything to Sora


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 4, 2009)

Seriously now, I want my vid of this guy shooting an _infinite_ number of them.
And I wish whoever tries to find me one good luck.

Then we can go back to Sora flying around in his gumi ship and shooting at dante.
A ship which is either impressively FTL or universe-travelling.

Hell, if people start arguing that it can't cross universes, than Merlin of KHverse can now control stuff the size of the gummi ship across the universe, for other battles involving KHverse.


----------



## Freija (Jan 4, 2009)

Ax_ said:


> t being ugly, in your opinion (personally, I rather like Oblivion myself) has nothing to do with this.
> 
> Sora has lightning as well, and has dealt with beings who can use that as well.
> Reflega still sent them back.
> ...



.... Start any devil may cry game, start mashing the square button and don't stop....






> Azure Flame Kite said:
> 
> 
> > :rofl
> ...


Just like Sora is too slow for Dante, as well as the fact that Dante is pretty much invincible.


----------



## Azure Flame Fright (Jan 4, 2009)

Freija the Dick said:


> Just like Sora is too slow for Dante, as well as the fact that *Dante is pretty much invincible.*



Oh, you've never been to the OBD before.

Sora cuts off his head.

GG


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 4, 2009)

Freija the Dick said:


> .... Start any devil may cry game, start mashing the square button and don't stop....


Sorry, it's your job to provide proof of thnigs when you are asked.
It's called burden of proof.

So please show me Dante shooting literally an infinite number of bullets.







> Just like Sora is too slow for Dante, as well as the fact that Dante is pretty much invincible.



Kindly get the fuck out of here.
Dante IS NOT invincible, as you put it.

What is the most Dante has managed to handle?
Sora CASUALLY cuts through skyscrapers.
And then kicks them around, in order to beat his enemy.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 4, 2009)

Disorderly Conduct, I haven't banned much besides Sora asking for help from other sources. That's like Link asking the Sages to seal Dante away >___> I can deal with summons that do damage or heal Sora, but I Win Buttons = crap.
As for banning the Gummi ship, that has nothing to do with Sora's abilities. If I banned any elemental spells, okay, that'd be a nerf. If I banned your beloved Reflect, yeah. This is saying that he can't use a piece of tech that negates all his abilities (and should TOTALLY be BFR. He doesn't have a Command Visor; if he wants to get in it, it's off to the Gummi dock with him. But they're not fighting in the Gummi dock. BFR) and should just fight on his own Goddamn strength. It's not a nerf; if anything, it's a vote of confidence XD

Warpinator has a failure rate; I assume it's damn near 100% for boss characters, yeah? You've gotta admit, Link's miles upon miles above any random Heartless minion. Boss.
That'd also just be common courtesy, being that I think of Sora and Dante as bosses, too. And any other main characters, for that matter.

As for Link stumbling when hit, that's when using some shield-type protections, yeah. The Magic Cape makes him invincible by virtue of intangibility. The attacks just go right through.

Back to MP, 20 seconds is enough to Ice blitz Sora, remembering that the arrows would be invisible. If Sora uses one of his items instead, Link just shoots him as he's using it. Yay, you get full mana, but you can't move! =D
And Link's got 99 in Twilight Princess. Almost 400 shots ^^
Now, if Link gets Sora frozen, I imagine he'd take up a strategy of having three of himself slash Sora out while the fourth fires another Ice Arrow, then repeating the process as much as he needs to. Of course, the attack he uses would probably be his strongest. I'm thinking the Great Spin of TP stacked on top of the fire spin from the N64 games. Three quick and powerful hits (so quick that, if you look closely, Great Spin has TWO motion trails. He looks like he's spinning around once, but he's actually fitting two. That count as a speed feat, BTW?) followed by a resealing with an Ice Arrow.
Unless you think that adding the Minish Cap's Great Spin V2 (same as the Hurricane Spin, but longer, takes no magic, and doesn't make Link dizzy afterwards) would be enough to reduce his HP to 1, at which point our Ice archer could deliver the finishing blow before Sora even starts flying back.

My strategy for a frozen Dante's a little different. The finishing Parry Attack from Wind Waker ^^ Fourfold. It took only one to turn Ganondorf to stone. What will four do to Dante? And when he's frozen in place, he can't help it.
Now the only problem is finding time to freeze him between that Just Guard crap >___> Hm...
...What form does Just Release take? Is it some big explodey Hadoken thing, a sword strike, what?


----------



## PradaBrada (Jan 4, 2009)

Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden series) solos


----------



## Densoro (Jan 4, 2009)

*wonders where anybody said anything about Ryu*

Anyway, found a vid of it. Seems Just Release is a bit like Soryuken with a sword, yeah? That should be simple to Parry Attack while another Link Ice-shoots Dante mid-air. Then they all take turns using the Finisher Parry on their stunned opponent, raining down on him repeatedly.
All they need to do is lure Dante into using JR and everything should be cool.


----------



## PradaBrada (Jan 4, 2009)

Referee said:


> *wonders where anybody said anything about Ryu*
> 
> Anyway, found a vid of it. Seems Just Release is a bit like Soryuken with a sword, yeah? That should be simple to Parry Attack while another Link Ice-shoots Dante mid-air. Then they all take turns using the Finisher Parry on their stunned opponent, raining down on him repeatedly.
> All they need to do is lure Dante into using JR and everything should be cool.



Ryu don't need strategy or think, he just destroy


----------



## Densoro (Jan 4, 2009)

That's...great, I guess. I always thought Ryu was a badass ninja, but apparently he's just a brainless Hulk Smashing oaf. Thanks for opening my eyes =D
Now explain what he has to do with this fight =/


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 4, 2009)

tl;dr, Sora freezes Dante and smashes his head in a million pieces.
He uses Just release, sora uses reflect, he tries to use Just Guard, Sora uses thunder faster than that, he tries to get his weapons wich are pretty much the only thing that gives him powers, sora uses Magnega, but for the lulz, Sora won't do any of that

Sora sumons stitch, Dante goes "Aaaaaw, what a cute litte thing" and then stich blasts him in the head with some nice vaporizing plasma.


----------



## Rashou (Jan 4, 2009)

Referee said:


> Warpinator has a failure rate; I assume it's damn near 100% for boss characters, yeah? You've gotta admit, Link's miles upon miles above any random Heartless minion. Boss.
> That'd also just be common courtesy, being that I think of Sora and Dante as bosses, too. And any other main characters, for that matter.


Warp and Warpinator still stun even bosses, so while Sora can't end it immediately, he'll buy himself plenty of time to heal. Although with Tinkerbell and Oogie Boogie as an enemy card he probably won't need it...


> As for Link stumbling when hit, that's when using some shield-type protections, yeah. The Magic Cape makes him invincible by virtue of intangibility. The attacks just go right through.


I was arguing that he would never get the chance to throw on the cape on account of Dante having far better speed feats. Here's how the match goes down: from the start, Dante hammers into Link and Sora with his Submachine guns. Sora has actually bullet timed, so he can block  or dodge pretty capably. Link, on the other hand, takes a bullet to the head and stumbles, where he takes another bullet, and another, and another, until he takes 80 and needs help from a fairy, which is promptly shot. Link won't get a chance to think about the cape, much less put it on because he'll be too busy being riddled with holes from Dante's guns.



> Back to MP, 20 seconds is enough to Ice blitz Sora, remembering that the arrows would be invisible. If Sora uses one of his items instead, Link just shoots him as he's using it. Yay, you get full mana, but you can't move! =D
> And Link's got 99 in Twilight Princess. Almost 400 shots ^^
> Now, if Link gets Sora frozen, I imagine he'd take up a strategy of having three of himself slash Sora out while the fourth fires another Ice Arrow, then repeating the process as much as he needs to. Of course, the attack he uses would probably be his strongest. I'm thinking the Great Spin of TP stacked on top of the fire spin from the N64 games. Three quick and powerful hits (so quick that, if you look closely, Great Spin has TWO motion trails. He looks like he's spinning around once, but he's actually fitting two. That count as a speed feat, BTW?) followed by a resealing with an Ice Arrow.
> Unless you think that adding the Minish Cap's Great Spin V2 (same as the Hurricane Spin, but longer, takes no magic, and doesn't make Link dizzy afterwards) would be enough to reduce his HP to 1, at which point our Ice archer could deliver the finishing blow before Sora even starts flying back.


First off: why are the arrows invisible? After they leave the safety of the invisible cape then they should be perfectly visible- and dodgeable. Anyway, Sora can break out of the ice of his own accord much faster than Link can break him out, and he can then use teleport, from Chain of Memories, and get away from the immediate damage, or Form and blow all the Links back. And KHoM also gives Auto-Life to Sora. And don't forget Sora's not going to be just standing there waiting for ice arrows to hit him in the first place- using Aeoroga he can avoid getting frozen altogether as Ice arrows would deflect away from him, and he can continually cast that and avoid major damage while LInk runs low on arrows. 



> My strategy for a frozen Dante's a little different. The finishing Parry Attack from Wind Waker ^^ Fourfold. It took only one to turn Ganondorf to stone. What will four do to Dante? And when he's frozen in place, he can't help it.
> Now the only problem is finding time to freeze him between that Just Guard crap >___> Hm...
> ...What form does Just Release take? Is it some big explodey Hadoken thing, a sword strike, what?


Dante has much better endurance and durability feats that Gannondorf, first off, so these attacks probably won't do too much but get him into a DT state. And Dante also has the speed to dodge arrows- he dodges gunfire while faced a completely different way, and Lady's modern arsenal >>>>> Link's arrows. Even invisible he'd hear the arrows and dodge or shoot them out of the air. Whenever he is hit, and assuming this strategy works, he has 99 revival items of his own, meaning he only has to avoid about 101 arrows if they are evenly split between himself and Sora. Seems like a lot, but considering not even that many should come close to hitting a high end bullet timer... Not really.


----------



## PradaBrada (Jan 4, 2009)

Referee said:


> That's...great, I guess. I always thought Ryu was a badass ninja, but apparently he's just a brainless Hulk Smashing oaf. Thanks for opening my eyes =D
> Now explain what he has to do with this fight =/



Ur welcome


----------



## Densoro (Jan 4, 2009)

Oh, no worries, Sora won't even need to heal himself. Link's probably gonna end it in one damage blitz; if Sora gets a free moment, Link has to start all over =/

So Dante's just gonna whip a large gun out of nowhere before Link can react? I have a little trouble believing that, honestly =/
Though if we're gonna play like that, Link could start off by casting Nayru's Love instead. Being that it's a spell, he doesn't need to reach for anything. He just needs to think it. That should give him enough peace to put on his cape.

I figure the Magic Cape would be pretty useless if all of Link's attacks were clearly visible =/ Nintendo wouldn't make such a worthless item.
Also, if the Links get within arm's length and fire, A) might that allow the arrows to pierce even Aeroga? B) wouldn't that keep them within the Cape's field, assuming it has one?
Also, if Sora starts Aero spamming, that probably makes things even easier for the Links. They just get close and start spinning their invisible Ball n Chains at him, then finish him up by actually tossing them at him.
Link's not about to waste arrows when they're obviously not doing anything. He sees one (or four) get blown away, he'll switch to something heaver ^^

Dante's survived a castle being blown up by a being who can make people implode by smacking them with her hair combined with the Fused Shadows? And Ganondorf's survived a sword through the chest, too. A Light-elemental sword, at that. It just took a better one to take him down.
Assuming the Links can get off my rain of Finisher Parries, would each stab to the face count as a death? If so, three Links need only repeat it 33 times while a fourth sits back and sinks 33 arrows into Dante to hold him still for the combo.
Also, could he hear the whoosh of the arrows from point-blank? He could see it, sure, if the bow was visible, but hear it? Hell, I'm not even sure they'd MAKE a whoosh, they'd spend so little time in the air.

Unless he has some Godly hearing that could tell where Link is by his pulse or something, and add proof if that's the case.


----------



## Rashou (Jan 4, 2009)

Referee said:


> So Dante's just gonna whip a large gun out of nowhere before Link can react? I have a little trouble believing that, honestly =/
> Though if we're gonna play like that, Link could start off by casting Nayru's Love instead. Being that it's a spell, he doesn't need to reach for anything. He just needs to think it. That should give him enough peace to put on his cape.


You have a hard time believing Dante would do something characteristic for him?! He frequently pulls out automatic weaponry and starts nailing his opponents with them to start off a fight. And Dante's too fast for Link to even think of using Nayru's love, even though Link has to do more than think it- he has an entire dance or some such. Also, Nayru's love presents a no limits fallacy- the strongest attack it allowed Link to tank is what it would allow Link to tank in the thread because of this. Is the strongest attack Nayru's Love tanked building punting level, which Sora has?



> I figure the Magic Cape would be pretty useless if all of Link's attacks were clearly visible =/ Nintendo wouldn't make such a worthless item.


Isn't the Magic Cape supposed to be used more for puzzle anyway? Unless you've got proof that they are in fact invisible, then this is just speculation.



> Also, if the Links get within arm's length and fire, A) might that allow the arrows to pierce even Aeroga? B) wouldn't that keep them within the Cape's field, assuming it has one?
> Also, if Sora starts Aero spamming, that probably makes things even easier for the Links. They just get close and start spinning their invisible Ball n Chains at him, then finish him up by actually tossing them at him.
> Link's not about to waste arrows when they're obviously not doing anything. He sees one (or four) get blown away, he'll switch to something heaver ^^


How is Link going to get within arms length of Sora, then take aim with his arrow, and then have Sora still stand in the same place? Just because he has Aeroga up, doesn't mean he'll just sit there. 



> Dante's survived a castle being blown up by a being who can make people implode by smacking them with her hair combined with the Fused Shadows? And Ganondorf's survived a sword through the chest, too. A Light-elemental sword, at that. It just took a better one to take him down.


Dante has survived atmospheric reentry against Mundus and he walks through lava and gets hit by giant statues like it's nothing. 


> Assuming the Links can get off my rain of Finisher Parries, would each stab to the face count as a death? If so, three Links need only repeat it 33 times while a fourth sits back and sinks 33 arrows into Dante to hold him still for the combo.


In a three way match, no character will really be able to just sit back. Regardless, as soon as Dante revives he can Air Trick to a different place in the field to stop their combo. 



> Also, could he hear the whoosh of the arrows from point-blank? He could see it, sure, if the bow was visible, but hear it? Hell, I'm not even sure they'd MAKE a whoosh, they'd spend so little time in the air.
> 
> Unless he has some Godly hearing that could tell where Link is by his pulse or something, and add proof if that's the case.


How is Link going to get point blank? Dante won't just stand there even if Link goes invisible. IF anything, he and Sora will by fighting at intense speeds. Link will be lucky to get a clear shot at all, but I certainly don't see him getting a point blank one.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 4, 2009)

I'd forgotten about the dance, but it freezes everything around him while he does it ^^ So either way.
Also, note the "before Link can react" bit. I'd like to see a video where Dante's machine gun appears in front of him faster than my eye can follow. I never doubted that he'd haul it out and start nailing right at the start. What I doubted is that it's light-fast.

Waiting on a friend for that proof. My save file got deleted and nobody on YouTube has a video using projectiles and the Cape at the same time. Though would you trust my friend's word? =/

You're telling me you'd wander around aimlessly when there's an ambush waiting for you everywhere? Though I could understand that later point about him and Dante just having it out while Link watches. Then Link only needs to Iceblitz the winner =D

Ganondorf got hit by a spear the size of a giant statue, if that counts for anything. And I imagine a castlebuster must be at least as damaging as lava.

*looks up a vid of Air Trick* If this is the right one, there's a bit of a lag before the takeoff. Perfect for arrows. La Corda D'oro Hand Book Japanese Art Book Is that the right technique? That red burst in the air?
Besides that, though, they're not gonna stop once he's dead. If those revival items are going, they're gonna see it as a threat and keep raining. Just like how you plan to shoot fairies ^^

And back to looking for point-blank shots. All they have to do is watch where their target is headed and put themselves right in the path. Target walks to them without realizing it, bam.


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 4, 2009)

So, what is freezing doing to Sora? It's not like he can't stay hours in the north pole without much clothes unbothered, or sumon a sphere of fire to thaw him.


----------



## Platinum (Jan 4, 2009)

Okay how about at the Start of the fight Dante just pulls out Yamato and swings it.  GG Link

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljVKGGWQHPs[/YOUTUBE]

Look at the first 30 seconds of that video that feat is arguably better than Sora's building cutting.


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 4, 2009)

Maybe, arguably.


----------



## Platinum (Jan 4, 2009)

Banhammer said:


> Maybe, arguably.



His sword doesn't even have to make contact to slice it in half though.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 4, 2009)

Again, Ban, something like the North Pole =/= Absolute 0. I'm pretty sure stopping somebody's molecular motion would do quite a bit.
Also, Plat, yay for shockwave slashes. Especially those magically reduced to 1/4 or less of their original power by a series of magical artifacts and blessings. Link's face starts bleeding, he frowns and puts on the Magic Cape. Continue as before.


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 4, 2009)

I'm not saying it isn''t. I'm just saying I don't feel like taking a good gander at it right now.


----------



## Platinum (Jan 4, 2009)

Referee said:


> Also, Plat, yay for shockwave slashes. Especially those magically reduced to 1/4 or less of their original power by a series of magical artifacts and blessings. Link's face starts bleeding, he frowns and puts on the Magic Cape. Continue as before.



To bad it kills Link before he has the chance to do those things.


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 4, 2009)

Referee said:


> Again, Ban, something like the North Pole =/= Absolute 0. I'm pretty sure stopping somebody's molecular motion would do quite a bit.
> Also, Plat, yay for shockwave slashes. Especially those magically reduced to 1/4 or less of their original power by a series of magical artifacts and blessings. Link's face starts bleeding, he frowns and puts on the Magic Cape. Continue as before.



It put's on absolue zero?

Oh my, if only Sora could reflect fast enough.

But I assume you've got reasons to believe this is an Absolute Zero?


----------



## Densoro (Jan 4, 2009)

Too bad they're things that Link starts wearing as soon as he finds them. As in, months ago, as of the time of this fight. Their enchantments save him from death, try again.
EDIT: -_- If you'll read back, I already went through all this Reflect crap. My answer is back there somewhere.


----------



## Platinum (Jan 4, 2009)

Referee said:


> Too bad they're things that Link starts wearing as soon as he finds them. As in, months ago, as of the time of this fight. Their enchantments save him from death, try again.
> EDIT: -_- If you'll read back, I already went through all this Reflect crap. My answer is back there somewhere.



I don't remember that being in the OP.

Even so 1/4 of that attack is more than enough to slice Link in two.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 4, 2009)

Fine then, revival by Fairies, on goes the cape. Try. Again.
*ignores the fact that cutting some buildings is hardly proof of one-shotting Link. Going off large cliffs breaks buildings, too, and he can do that for fun if he wants*


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 4, 2009)

yeah, a guy whose Bow and Arrow is a reliable weapon s never in a million years touching Sora, so... I'm just gonna stick with the big Sue.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 4, 2009)

Except, again, I do believe the arrows will be INFREAKINGVISIBLE. WHY do you forget everything I say in this thread? x_____x


----------



## Enclave (Jan 4, 2009)

Referee said:


> Oh, no worries, Sora won't even need to heal himself. Link's probably gonna end it in one damage blitz; if Sora gets a free moment, Link has to start all over =/



It's like you've never played Kingdom Hearts ever.  Go look at just past 7:10.  See those hits that Riku took?  They basically made him limp for a little while (not very long), that was how much damage he took from those hits.  The guy who gave him those hits?  Stronger than both him and Sora and both Riku and Sora are capable of casually slicing through skyscrapers which means Xemnas pretty much definitely is capable of that same feat.  So there Riku was being hit by attacks that should have been more than capable of slicing through solid concrete and steel like it was nothing and yet it didn't even break the skin on him.

Essentially, Link is fucked.  He isn't going to be able to exert near enough force to actually be able to even hurt Sora even if he somehow managed to actually hit Sora.  You'll also notice that throughout the fight Sora happened to be flying, yes that's right, Sora can fly if he wants to.  What's Link going to do?  Shoot arrows at him?  Shoot arrows at somebody who on the low end is a ridiculously casual bullet timer and on the high end can deflect Xemnas' 1,000 Lasers attack (yes, that's the name of the attack that has that dome of energy beams so yes you can actually make a case for Sora being capable of faster than light reaction times and movements.  Course some refuse to accept this, however even if you refuse to accept that scene in the game it is undeniable that Sora is easily super sonic in speed.  The same is most definitely not true of Link.)


----------



## Densoro (Jan 4, 2009)

And yet he can he harmed by a little Shadow with cat claws poking at him. Methinks there's a problem here.
Most notably that you cut things with sharpness, not strength. Strength tears and breaks, cuts are clean. Now, if he'd shattered the pillars into a million rough little chunks, sure, I'd go with it. But as is, he just has a very, very sharp weapon.

*isn't even going to bother saying 'again' anymore* The current theory is that the arrows, along with the one shooting them, will be INVISIBLE. Like, you know, can't be seen? Light passing directly through them? Yeah. That. Invisible. I don't care how fast your reflexes are, if you don't see the attack, you won't be reacting to it.


----------



## Narcissus (Jan 4, 2009)

Referee said:


> And yet he can he harmed by a little Shadow with cat claws poking at him. Methinks there's a problem here.
> Most notably that you cut things with sharpness, not strength. Strength tears and breaks, cuts are clean. Now, if he'd shattered the pillars into a million rough little chunks, sure, I'd go with it. But as is, he just has a very, very sharp weapon.
> 
> *isn't even going to bother saying 'again' anymore* The current theory is that the arrows, along with the one shooting them, will be INVISIBLE. Like, you know, can't be seen? Light passing directly through them? Yeah. That. Invisible. I don't care how fast your reflexes are, if you don't see the attack, you won't be reacting to it.



Please.  Now this post is complete nonsense.  Link has nothing with which to harm Sora, who can fly.  The reason conventional Heartless and Nobodies can harm Sora is gameplay, otherwise there would be no fun in the game, HURR HURR. :WOW

Sora flies in the skies until Link's items run out uses Trinity Limit or shouts LIGHTNING.

You've amused me quite a bit in this thread, Referee, quite a bit.


----------



## Rashou (Jan 4, 2009)

Dante pulls out his guns in super speed to deal with Vergil and to deal with a motorcycle that Trish tosses at him in the opening scene of DMC1. Time is slowed down so you can see it, but Dante is still unholstering and shooting far faster than we should be able to perceive. 

And the arrows being invisible (proof plz) doesn't negate the fact that they make a sound. Even the thwang of leaving the bow would allow Dante to dodge as he dodged a gunshot from Lady while turned a completely different way in DMC3. Sora may not be able to dodge them based on pure sound, but that doesn't matter as with Xemnas' enemy card a two hit or more combo will cease to damage him after the first blow.


----------



## Platinum (Jan 4, 2009)

Referee you admitted that Dante can just cleave through Link at the start of the fight, now have fairies ever been shown to 
1. be able to restore a body that was cut in two
2 and act of their own free will 

if not then Link is done leaving Sora and Dante to fight.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 4, 2009)

Fine then, if Sora can tank any Goddamn blow ever from anything ever forever and always and never takes any damage ever ever EVER...then why's he bother blocking attacks in cutscenes? Can't he just Superman them? That'd give him a tactical advantage; block an attack with his apparently invincible Face of Doom while he shanks the person who hit him.
But he doesn't. He blocks attacks.

And, uh, yeah. Link has arrows. Those can go pretty damn high. So can grabbing the Bunny Hood and using the double-jumps from Brawl.
Unless you mean using the damn Gummi ship again, but once again, I'm pretty sure running to the dock is BFR. Otherwise Link will just run to the chamber of the Sages and ask them to seal away his enemies. Or better yet, kick Ganondorf's ass, take Power, borrow Wisdom from Zelda and use the Triforce to wish his enemies away.

EDIT: It wasn't so much an admission as me not bothering to argue the same fucking point for the millionth time, but it's kinda obvious that they act on their own free will. Link being dead and all would make it kinda hard for him to make them do stuff. But again, Link can take building-breaking damage and in some cases take NO damage. Without protection items, even. I can jump off a cliff and leave Link absolutely pristine. 

Also, going through solid matter (as the Magic Cape allows you to do, will link it in a sec) means no wind-whoosh, either ^^ Seems the only thing that can be contacted by Caped Link besides the floor is enemies. Don't ask for it to make sense, otherwise I call out Sora's aforementioned ignorance of equal and opposite reactions.

Lastly, Rashou, that was him whipping out pistols. I'm asking for that giantshit machine gun you were promising.


----------



## Rashou (Jan 4, 2009)

The cape means Link won't make a sound, but how do we know it'll be the same for his arrows? I haven't played the game it's from, but I imagine you would be able to see the arrows as they fly across screen like in all other Zelda games. 

And just going through the old DMC games and while I was at it, I found something interesting- in the first game the Frost quote yields that the frost slash and attack with claws which can cool the air to temperatures I'm not sure if you'd provided proof of the statement that the ice arrows get that cold, but even if they do, Dante can come into contact with weaponry of such nature and not get frozen. Far from it, he's perfectly fine and takes minimal damge. Ice arrows won't freeze him, and probably won't even do much damage.


----------



## Platinum (Jan 4, 2009)

So Referee since both Dante and Sora can withstand freezing temperatures how in the hell can Link even damage them?

And i'm calling game mechanics on that supposed cliff fall and not taking any damage thing. How big was the cliff 20 feet?


----------



## Densoro (Jan 4, 2009)

Rashou, how canon is that entry? It looks like some random document, so I'm not sure it's 100% =/ Complete crap if it's true, though. There's no such thing as negatives on the Kelvin scale; how do you make molecules move slower than not at all? Another reason I question the validity.
Anyway, proof of absolute 0 Ice Arrows? When you get them in Wind Waker, they are declared to be able to halt a flame of any temperature. If they were any warmer than 0, they couldn't make that claim. A fire of 4000 degrees or something would be able to outlast it. But ANY fire is subject to it. So it must have the power to stop the molecules in the fire dead in their tracks. Absolute 0, the point at which molecular motion ceases.

Which, Plat, is one hell of a lot colder than 'freezing temperatures.' A place where ice forms is one hell of a lot warmer than the air in a place solidifying and falling to the floor. If the North Pole was A0, that's what would happen. Nothing would be able to move at all; there would be no friction against molecules, and friction is caused by movement. No friction, no movement.
So you see, even if Dante can survive being frozen as solid as is physically possible in the entire universe, Sora can't.
Though it just occurred to me; getting hit with A0 ice isn't the same as being turned into it. Ban made the same mistake. Me pegging you in the face with an ice cube isn't the same as locking you in my freezer. After all, if throwing something cold at something warm froze the 'something warm,' nobody would put ice in their soda. They'd end up licking a solid block of Pepsi.

tl;dr, hitting with something cold isn't the same as freezing.

As to how tall the cliff was, look here La Corda D'oro Hand Book Japanese Art Book 13:40-14:10 should give you a decent idea. I can land on the solid ground in one jump from there without taking any damage. With Iron Boots if you'd like. Or I could use Tingle's hover to start out even higher than the cliff face, by just a little. Maybe both, go for it. I can land it without getting hurt.

EDIT: Oh, look what I found. A natural speed feat! =O La Corda D'oro Hand Book Japanese Art Book About 30 seconds in, notice that Link's still equipped with the ocarina, not the Pegasus Boots. Yet he leaves a bunch of distance between himself and the arrow that was very nearly in the back of his head.


----------



## Enclave (Jan 4, 2009)

Referee said:


> Fine then, if Sora can tank any Goddamn blow ever from anything ever forever and always and never takes any damage ever ever EVER...then why's he bother blocking attacks in cutscenes? Can't he just Superman them? That'd give him a tactical advantage; block an attack with his apparently invincible Face of Doom while he shanks the person who hit him.
> But he doesn't. He blocks attacks.



What you're not getting I think is the fact that Sora generally fights beings far more powerful thank Link.  Beings who are capable of hurting him, unlike Link.

Sora is just on a higher tier than Link is, a far far higher tier.  See, Sora has multiple feats of super durability in the series.  He can withstand far more punishment than Link can.

Dante on the other hand, while he doesn't have super human durability he has super human regeneration which really amounts to the same thing in the end.

Link though, Link's durability comes from wearing armour.  Without his armour he's a fleshy human.  Link is not super human, he's like Batman.  His abilities come from his gagets.  You wouldn't expect a Batarang to hurt Superman would you?


----------



## Densoro (Jan 4, 2009)

A Shadow is more powerful Link? Yeah, I believe it =/
Link can be tossed off the kind of cliffs that people commit suicide from. Nasty, splattery suicide, too, not just a clean knock. He can land it without a scratch, if you know what you're doing. He can take 20 hits from guys strong enough to one-hand a claymore so heavy that it shatters large stone pillars effortlessly, then he can steal their sword and use it decently, himself (though it takes him two hands). And he can chuck it 30 feet or so away.
Furthermore, take a man who can effortlessly crush enchanted stone in his offhand, then put a sword in his main hand and have him double-hand it. Yeah, that's Ganondorf. He can take plenty of hits from him, too. Plus, he can survive fully armor-plated knights on horses body-slamming his ass full-speed.

I won't deny that almost half Link's badassness comes from Batman-like gadget mastery, but that's the thing. He's not Otowa Hyoko, useless without his gadgets. He's like Batman. A badass who is further augmented by his little toys.
Also, what armor? TP Link had a little bit of chainmail, sure, but other than that, the Links have been clothies >__>; He's been tanking in mage gear, which should speak for itself.

The difference seems to be more like Batman vs The Flash. I fully expect a Batarang to hurt Flash, Bats just needs to find some reason to stop him moving long enough to use it.


----------



## Freija (Jan 5, 2009)

Azure Flame Kite said:


> Oh, you've never been to the OBD before.
> 
> Sora cuts off his head.
> 
> GG



I was in the battledome before you joined this forum mate 


And cutting off the head is kinda hard when your opponent can move way faster than the speed of sound...


When I start seeing some feats from Sora that he can dodge bullets, can split buildings better than Dante, is stronger than him I'll believe all this crap, so far the only ones (at least these last pages, haven't read the entire thread) to post videos is the ones saying stuff on DMC.


----------



## the box (Jan 5, 2009)

sora rapes with extremly haxed magica and insane keyblade skills, sora can keep up with light waves do you know how fucking fast that is/ sora has also been shown swinging on giant shandalers and cushing boulders to dust as well as cutting skyscrapers in half


----------



## Densoro (Jan 5, 2009)

Did you mean to completely repeat everything in the thread? I mean seriously, did you search through and decide to give a summary of the most-used arguments, or was that all a happy coincidence? o_O
Also, what Sora has are far from 'skills,' as far as his blade goes >_> If he fought at human speed, _I_ could beat his ass. Seriously. Anybody who spins around as much as he does must be _trying_ to get it in the ass or something XD He's just not very good. He fights like a complete amateur.

Also, way to pay absolutely no mind to any of the arguments I've put in this thread =D *gives cookie*


----------



## Fenix (Jan 5, 2009)

Cut-scene Dante doesn't lose


----------



## Enclave (Jan 5, 2009)

Referee, you are once again confusing gameplay and storyline.  You'll note that in storyline Sora never gets hurt by Shadows in KH2, in fact in KH2 he is easily dispatching Dusks which are considerably more powerful than Shadow heartless.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 5, 2009)

And Enclave, you are confusing cut scenes with the OP, which said gameplay ability measurements only ^^

Not that I blame you. The way half these guys were talking, they made _me_ forget, too DX

But seriously, the way you guys are talking, it's like you believe Sora fights like this: Ending all the freaking time o_O


----------



## the box (Jan 5, 2009)

Referee said:


> And Enclave, you are confusing cut scenes with the OP, which said gameplay ability measurements only ^^
> 
> Not that I blame you. The way half these guys were talking, they made _me_ forget, too DX
> 
> But seriously, the way you guys are talking, it's like you believe Sora fights like this: Ending all the freaking time o_O



sora

speed- light
strength- crushing giants to dust, cutting sky scrapers in half
stamina- fought 1000 heartless by himself with ni forms
regeneration- yes
reflects attacks-yes
powerful magic- yes
summons-yes
items-yes
insane forms- yes yes yes and final yes
kill these fooder in battle- yes


----------



## Densoro (Jan 5, 2009)

Speed- Fluctuates for the sake of drama
Strength- Has nothing to do with cutting through a building
Stamina- Rarely ever enters into video games
Regeneration- Only with magic, but he's too busy casting Reflect
Reflects attacks- Is all he ever does, according to the last several pages
Powerful Magic- Like Reflect, Reflect, and Reflect
Summons- Are like letting somebody else fight for him, and it's surprising they're allowed
Items- Are nothing special
Insane forms- Aren't available solo
Kill these two esteemed main characters in battle- If his debaters play their cards right

And you forgot one.
Skill- A foreign concept

Link
Speed- Outruns arrows, can spin around twice so fast it looks like once
Strength- Can crumble large pillars easily and overpower a man who crushes stone like butter
Stamina- Can run all over Hyrule without getting tired
Regeneration- 100 lives' worth thanks to fairies
Reflects attacks- With his handy Mirror Shield and Parry Attacks
Powerful Magic- Can keep him shielded for two weeks
Summons- Are for sissies that can't use a sword
Items- Can get him out of most any problem
Insane forms- Come with the masks that I was nice enough to leave out
Kill unskilled showboat swordsmen- Easily, if not for Goddamn animespeed
Skill- Realistic, which is better than the others


----------



## Rashou (Jan 5, 2009)

Referee said:


> Rashou, how canon is that entry? It looks like some random document, so I'm not sure it's 100% =/ Complete crap if it's true, though. There's no such thing as negatives on the Kelvin scale; how do you make molecules move slower than not at all? Another reason I question the validity.


First of all, . It's the point where you can't pull any more energy out of a substance simply because its molecules don't move enough to transfer energy. This technicality isn't very important here, but remember for later.

As for this part of your post, just play DMC, get to the frosts, and then check your enemy file for this description. It's not some random document, it's just the info from the enemy files typed up by someone. And don't start arguing how little sense the physics of these games make when Link has tons of impossible feats, like magically reappearing at the top of a ledge or even posessing arrows that freeze at all. 



> Anyway, proof of absolute 0 Ice Arrows? When you get them in Wind Waker, they are declared to be able to halt a flame of any temperature. If they were any warmer than 0, they couldn't make that claim. A fire of 4000 degrees or something would be able to outlast it. But ANY fire is subject to it. So it must have the power to stop the molecules in the fire dead in their tracks. Absolute 0, the point at which molecular motion ceases.


That was probably hyperbole. But from a physics standpoint (since you're going there...) you still wouldn't be able to freeze any flame. Assuming a flame could reach "absolute hot", or the Planck Temperature, then you wouldn't very well be able to stop its molecular movement as the molecules would be moving so fast they'd function as a black hole. But then I guess you could argue that wouldn't be a flame anymore, so let's just consider that Link has never shown to be able to freeze anything larger than a volcano, yet, by your logic he'd be able to freeze a star.



> Which, Plat, is one hell of a lot colder than 'freezing temperatures.' A place where ice forms is one hell of a lot warmer than the air in a place solidifying and falling to the floor. If the North Pole was A0, that's what would happen. Nothing would be able to move at all; there would be no friction against molecules, and friction is caused by movement. No friction, no movement.
> So you see, even if Dante can survive being frozen as solid as is physically possible in the entire universe, Sora can't.


Based on game mechanics, Sora and Dante can very well survive and break themselves out. Cutscene and story wise, Dante has it covered, though you're right, Sora is forever frozen. But even if you go with cutscenes to get Sora deep frozen, Dante and Sora are still much too fast to be hit with his arrows and instead will be slicing him up from the open of the match. Actually, cutscene based Dante blows his head off. 



> Though it just occurred to me; getting hit with A0 ice isn't the same as being turned into it. Ban made the same mistake. Me pegging you in the face with an ice cube isn't the same as locking you in my freezer. After all, if throwing something cold at something warm froze the 'something warm,' nobody would put ice in their soda. They'd end up licking a solid block of Pepsi.
> 
> tl;dr, hitting with something cold isn't the same as freezing.


Not quite-read the description again- it says the *air around their blades* is so cold as below even absolute zero, hence why the victims die without feeling any pain. If you get hit by cold air then you bet your temperature will start to drop. Imagine getting impaled by a claw with such temperatures. A good portion of your body would freeze to absolute zero, yet Dante can not only tank normal slashes, but when he IS frozen by their freezing blasts in DMC4 (not sure if they do so in 1) he breaks out casually in seconds. Devil Trigger actually grants him immunity to it altogether.


----------



## skiboydoggy (Jan 5, 2009)

Apparently realistic swordskill > inhuman animu swordskills.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 5, 2009)

Ski, it's much better when the inhuman skills fill you to bursting with so much arrogance that you don't bother learning how to use your weapon properly ^^ The only thing that saves them is speed, as said before. Even I can see holes in every one of their moves. A master swordsman would have them figured out instantly.

Of course, I wasn't about to completely push physics ^^ Just seemed odd. Sounded like a mistake to me. Besides, this makes one stupid physics-break for each of them, if I remember right. So far in the thread, anyway.

Hm...Yeah, I see your point =/ Still, I doubt the air in the North Pole could deactivate a volcano, so Sora's 'feat' of walking through the snow in shorts means nothing ^____^

I never doubted that they'd break out, which is why I've come up with such needlesly blitzy strategies for either of them. Once he freezes them, his window of opportunity would be tiny e___e And for the record, my strategy targets Sora first, since he can keep his cape up for that one. Then with the match down to one-on-one, he can take it off to lure Dante into Releasing.
If all goes well, of course ^^

Bah, so we still aren't done with the point of them blitzing Link right from the start? =/ Link's shield would save him from a headshot pretty well. And I just realized, there's a chance of reflecting that big fancy shockwave slash that Plat was talking about earlier with the Mirror Shield. Is the attack magical in origin?

Ah, so he can be frozen. You wouldn't know his breakout time if he couldn't ^^ Odd, I thought I remembered you saying he can't...Whatever. Seconds are still enough time to do damage, and if the archer Link times it right, he can add more and more of them. Though depending on how many seconds, this new information could make or break my plan of raining Finisher Parries on a frozen opponent. Can't have him thawing halfway through =/


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 5, 2009)

Game Mechanics are acepted right?

So fuck invisibility, Use Lock-On [/Sogeking]


----------



## Densoro (Jan 5, 2009)

Lock-on is easily broken by things like invisibility.


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 5, 2009)

It is not really. Also, see Invisible heartless in Tarzan


----------



## Densoro (Jan 5, 2009)

Are you talking about the chameleon? That's because he was all shimmery. Invisibility like that is lame. Link's got the real deal.


----------



## Rashou (Jan 5, 2009)

Referee said:


> Hm...Yeah, I see your point =/ Still, I doubt the air in the North Pole could deactivate a volcano, so Sora's 'feat' of walking through the snow in shorts means nothing ^____^


Actually I was thinking more of the feat of fighting through Blizzard Lord and Vexen and the Ice Titan. Blizzard Lord is the hottest of their cold (wow, that's oxymoronic, lol) but he still freezes Volcanic Lord's minions which are as hot as volcano fire and the like. Ice Titan is much colder and in the Hercules series he also has a volcano freezing feat, if I recall correctly.



> Bah, so we still aren't done with the point of them blitzing Link right from the start? =/ Link's shield would save him from a headshot pretty well. And I just realized, there's a chance of reflecting that big fancy shockwave slash that Plat was talking about earlier with the Mirror Shield. Is the attack magical in origin?


When has Link bullet timed before?! But if he blocks a headshot from Ivory, Dante pulls around and gets him elsewhere with Ebony.



> Ah, so he can be frozen. You wouldn't know his breakout time if he couldn't ^^ Odd, I thought I remembered you saying he can't...Whatever. Seconds are still enough time to do damage, and if the archer Link times it right, he can add more and more of them. Though depending on how many seconds, this new information could make or break my plan of raining Finisher Parries on a frozen opponent. Can't have him thawing halfway through =/


I said he couldn't be frozen by Link because, at most, Link's freezing brings the degree down to absolute Zero. Even lower temperatures are what Dante's shown an immunity to, thus, no, Dante won't be frozen unless you've got proof Link's arrows operate to even absolute 0, then beyond. I'm honestly not thinking the Finisher Parries will do too much to Dante as well. Sword slashes from fodder demons slice up stone and Nero and Vergil are pretty comparable to Dante but he can tank several of their strongest combo moves, even if they're in DT without dying.


----------



## Rashou (Jan 5, 2009)

How do you know how Link "looks" when invisible? Isn't he always illustrated so the player can see him? I imagine it would be hard to control a character you can't see...


----------



## Densoro (Jan 5, 2009)

Did the Ice Titan use this volcano-freezing feat-move on Sora in their fight? Or just slap him with icicles?

It's not bullet-timing, it's hey-my-enemy-is-reaching-for-his-gun-timing. And he'd raise his shield for it.
Unclear on what you mean by 'pulls around.' Do you mean flanks him? 'Cause if so, that oughta be enough time to grab the cape.

Wait, so you said the Frosts, with their sub-A0 blades, failed to freeze Dante, then you went on to talk about his breakout times. Which is it?! DX Could they freeze him or not?

I highly doubt fodder demons are using epically-enchanted light-elemental swords capable of killing people who put holy swords through their chests for fun. Ganondorf had an Alastor moment of his own...except rather than doing the calm waking-up-from-coffin mime routine, he flew into a berserker rage and tore a guy's face off e____e

EDIT: You'd think so, but they manage to make the game work even by poofing the hell out of him ^^


----------



## Rashou (Jan 5, 2009)

Ice Titan used his breath, which was the volcano freezer, so yes, he did indeed use it against Sora. 

Why would Link even know what a gun is to think "oh no, better block!" But anyway, I didn't mean flank him, I meant he'd just raise his other pistol or move the one he has slightly lower and shoot Link in the stomach or somewhere else he has a clear shot. 

Frosts don't freeze Dante with their ice blades, but with a special attack that's even colder than the air cycling around those. Sorry for not clarifying, but the point stands that Dante should be pretty much immune to Link's ice arrows. If he isn't, then he Devil Triggers whenever he's iced down and immediately breaks free. And God help Link if Dante's in the red, health wise, as he can use Sparda devil Trigger.

When was Ganondorf chest stabbed again? I've played, like, 3 LoZ games and don't really recall much from any of them but OoT. Well, I remember a fair bit about Minish Cap and PHantom Hourglass too I guess... But anyway, you just confirmed that it didn't actually kill Ganondorf, so it shouldn't kill Dante in one hit. Instead it'll just beef him up to DT. 

Sora, during all this, has plenty of time to cast Magnega, then stun, then several other abilities to take down one or two of them. Actually, you know what I just realized, Sora can stop Link from ever getting invincibility. He just starts stunning Link endlessly before Link can drink the Romani under the cape or with whatever other invincibility enchantment he's using. After his invincibility wears off once, Sora goes in melee with Trinity Limits or some such.


----------



## Enclave (Jan 5, 2009)

Referee said:


> And Enclave, you are confusing cut scenes with the OP, which said gameplay ability measurements only ^^
> 
> Not that I blame you. The way half these guys were talking, they made _me_ forget, too DX
> 
> But seriously, the way you guys are talking, it's like you believe Sora fights like this: Scream all the freaking time o_O



Meh, seriously though you can still let shadow heartless pound on you practically forever at the end oft he game and they still won't take you down so it's really a moot point.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 5, 2009)

Link's seen cannons. That's close enough. And as was proven by half the fights he ends up in, he knows that bigger isn't necessarily better.
Ahhh. Just aim lower XD Yeah, could do, but considering that Link would already be halfway through reaching for the cape by that point, the shield may just have bought him the time he needs. Maybe.

Ah. So sub-sub-zero attacks did it, not just their regular sub-zero ones. Alright.
Though thinking back to my earlier misconception (or perhaps misnomer, I'm not entirely sure which. This is what happens when I can't sleep x___x) regarding Absolute 0, the name is irrelevant. The function that I was trying to get at was the 'halted molecular motion' bit that would guarantee an end to any fire. Calling it A0 was apparently my bad, since I guess it's possible to go several degrees under that.
Though I guess it's a moot point, since I can't prove that it halts molecules XD

...Oh x_____x You haven't played the one where he goes all Alastor. Mind the spoiler?

This whole discussion wasn't supposed to be taking place in the middle of the battle XD Like I said, my idea is to take Sora down first. If Sora happens to beat down Dante in that time, cool, but the strategies I've worked out for Link really hinge on NOT going after Dante with anybody else around.

...So! =D I think I'm gonna take a break from this today. I haven't had any sleep, and for my own sake, that's not gonna change for another seven hours. My brain isn't working properly at the moment, so I'm gonna spare us all the headache.
Just so you guys don't let my silence get to your heads or anything =P


----------



## Rashou (Jan 5, 2009)

Have a good rest.


----------



## Enclave (Jan 5, 2009)

And yet how can Link possibly take out Sora.  I still haven't seen any explanation for that.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 5, 2009)

> When was Ganondorf chest stabbed again? I've played, like, 3 LoZ games and don't really recall much from any of them but OoT. Well, I remember a fair bit about Minish Cap and PHantom Hourglass too I guess...



I don't remember chest, but he's been face stabbed at least twice. Once in OoT and once in WW.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 5, 2009)

Of course you haven't, Enclave, because you're working off the belief that Sora has adamantium flesh or something. If you abandoned that notion, you'd see plenty of explanations. Damn thread's bursting at the seams with them e___e
And anyway, the chest-stabbing was in Twilight Princess. Not with the Master Sword. And like I said, he reacted by breaking out of his restraints and ripping a dude's face off.

...Yeah, I still haven't rested, but I wanted to get those answered >_> <_< Really gone now. I hope.


----------



## Platinum (Jan 5, 2009)

Also Dante has insane accuracy too, look at the video i posted where he shot about six bullets perfectly on top of each other so unless Link can bullet time he is extremely screwed.


----------



## Enclave (Jan 5, 2009)

Referee said:


> Of course you haven't, Enclave, because you're working off the belief that Sora has adamantium flesh or something. If you abandoned that notion, you'd see plenty of explanations. Damn thread's bursting at the seams with them e___e
> And anyway, the chest-stabbing was in Twilight Princess. Not with the Master Sword. And like I said, he reacted by breaking out of his restraints and ripping a dude's face off.
> 
> ...Yeah, I still haven't rested, but I wanted to get those answered >_> <_< Really gone now. I hope.



It's a fact that Sora has super human durability.  Why you don't think this is beyond me, there's plenty of evidence to support this.  Not my problem if you are annoyed that Link can't beat Sora.



Platnium said:


> Also Dante has insane accuracy too, look at the video i posted where he shot about six bullets perfectly on top of each other so unless Link can bullet time he is extremely screwed.



Another example, in DMC4 when Dante and Nero shoot at eachother they actually shoot eachothers bullets out of the air.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 5, 2009)

*still not rested, so bear with him*

Plat, it doesn't quite matter if Dante can nail Link's head 80 times in a row if Link's already seen him grab his gun and has covered his head with his shield. Again, it's not bullet-timing if you take action before the bullet is fired.

The reason I don't believe Sora's a walking tank is that, if you set a little Heartless that fights like a cat on him and don't do anything, it will kill him eventually. Just like if you set a very pissed-off cat on a regular person. He DOES take damage from it, and that's a pathetic attack. Otherwise, why would he have been so scared when a bizillion Shadows swarmed The World That Never Was? If he's the cyborg demigod you seem to think he is, he'd just walk through the lot of them and let them break their hands against his Herculean flesh.

Claiming that my arguments are made for like or dislike of a character is a complete straw man as well as a generally asshole thing to insinuate. I am not such an idiot ^^ That's not how fanboyism works. A PROPER fanboy, such as myself, accepts that God could beat his favorite character, but insists that said character is a bigger badass and may or may not be better-looking.

No, what drives my arguments is that it seems to me you're fanwanking Sora bloody and raw, reading too much into things, or reading them in the wrong direction. When somebody called Dante invulnerable earlier on, they were summarily handed a GTFO. When you say it for Sora, though, then bullshit as it is, you get off with it. Cutscenes AND gameplay both show that not to be true.


----------



## Enclave (Jan 5, 2009)

Nobody is saying Sora is unable to be hurt.  Just that it's going to take somebody stronger than Link.  Dante is strong enough, Link definitely isn't though.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 5, 2009)

But again, Sora's been shown to take damage from monsters a good bit weaker than Link, even as he's running around TWTNW. Canonically AND for the sake of gameplay. As I've said before, I'm not about to believe that Shadows are stronger than Link. Or Soldiers. Or any of the fodder from the Thousand Heartless Challenge. Or Dusks. Or generally a great deal of the enemies Sora's been put up against. If you can prove to me that everybody on that list is more capable than Link, then I'll give this point to you.

And in case you were thinking of using it, Zerging isn't counted as a strength. "Thousands of Shadows could tear a man to pieces in a second!" Yeah, but only because that man would take 1 damage thousands of times at once. Just wanna be sure that's out of the way.


----------



## Enclave (Jan 6, 2009)

Whatever man, I'm done.  You do know you are the ONLY one here who is having an opinion like that right?  Don't you think that means something?


----------



## Platinum (Jan 6, 2009)

Referee said:


> *still not rested, so bear with him*
> 
> Plat, it doesn't quite matter if Dante can nail Link's head 80 times in a row if Link's already seen him grab his gun and has covered his head with his shield. Again, it's not bullet-timing if you take action before the bullet is fired.



Then Dante would just shoot him in the stomach, he has two guns you know. 

You have already admitted that Dante could just cut Link into two with Yamato at the start of the fight so this just becomes a Dante vs Sora thread.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 6, 2009)

Yes, that everybody vastly underestimates EG Link. Which may come from the fact that I spend much more of my free time lost in thought than most people do, or that I put more effort into thinking up good strats for him because I have a healthy respect for him not being a generic anime swordsman. Or that I'm not so blinded by undying devotion to Sora that I refuse to think that some Nintendo upstart has what it takes to mar him.

And either way, you've still given no proof that Link's weaker than any of the fodder enemies I mentioned. It's not even a question of opinion, it's plain-out fact. Why run from it? You were so sure before, prove me wrong with that same confidence.
Also, argumentum ad populum is a fallacy ^^

EDIT: AGAIN, Plat, that wasn't an admission. That was a "Yeah, sure, go for it I guess. Whatever." Though I've recently gotten it into my head that the Mirror Shield could reflect Yamato's strike. Prove me wrong?
Also, if Link crouches behind his shield and angles it toward Dante, that's even greater protection. Dante could maybe score Stormtrooper grazes on Link's foot and shoulder. Maybe. And again, blocking that first shot is meant to buy Link the time to fish the Cape out of his pocket.


----------



## mystictrunks (Jan 6, 2009)

Enclave said:


> Whatever man, I'm done.  You do know you are the ONLY one here who is having an opinion like that right?  Don't you think that means something?



Appeal to Popularity?


----------



## Shinkirou (Jan 6, 2009)

Referee said:


> Yes, that everybody vastly underestimates EG Link. Which may come from the fact that I spend much more of my free time lost in thought than most people do, or that I put more effort into thinking up good strats for him because I have a healthy respect for him not being a generic anime swordsman. Or that I'm not so blinded by undying devotion to Sora that I refuse to think that some Nintendo upstart has what it takes to mar him.
> 
> And either way, you've still given no proof that Link's weaker than any of the fodder enemies I mentioned. It's not even a question of opinion, it's plain-out fact. Why run from it? You were so sure before, prove me wrong with that same confidence.
> Also, argumentum ad populum is a fallacy ^^
> ...



Can you prove that Link can dish out damage greater than the mid-high level attacks that Soras tanked? Can you prove that Link can even _hit_ Sora to begin with? If not, its over.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 6, 2009)

As to hitting Sora to begin with, that's what the last five pages at least have been about. Now, as to damage, let's see...Link can casually shatter pillars to dust Futai no Kiwami-style using a claymore. He can overpower a man with enough raw power to crush an enchanted stone crown in his weaker hand like a raw egg and subsequently throw this man, a very heavily-muscled, tall figure several feet through the air by the force of the attack. Furthermore, his speed of blade (and perhaps of footwork) is so quick that, when it seems his body has only spun around once, he leaves in the air the motion trails of two spin attacks. As a man with no strength-augmenting items, he can lift a 10-foot diameter boulder with large metal plates attached. Said boulder was alive, BTW, and happened to be the Goron miniboss. As a wolf, he can hold his ground as a 25 foot long (and rather chubby for its length) boar rams into him full speed.

Then add passive improvements, which have this lovely tendency to auto-equip. Take bracelets that allow an average kid to lift a Maui stone head, pile on some guantlets that allow an average adult to lift about the same amount. He can cut metal armor apart with ease, his blade's so sharp.

Do I have to go on? I've been looking forward to getting some damn sleep all day x____x


----------



## Platinum (Jan 6, 2009)

Referee said:


> EDIT: AGAIN, Plat, that wasn't an admission. That was a "Yeah, sure, go for it I guess. Whatever."



You are just avoiding the question.



> Though I've recently gotten it into my head that the Mirror Shield could reflect Yamato's strike. Prove me wrong?



Burden of proof fallacy.



> Also, if Link crouches behind his shield and angles it toward Dante, that's even greater protection. Dante could maybe score Stormtrooper grazes on Link's foot and shoulder.


Have you even played a DMC game? Dante would have no trouble at all nailing Link.



> Maybe. And again, blocking that first shot is meant to buy Link the time to fish the Cape out of his pocket.



Argumentum ad nauseum.


----------



## Vault (Jan 6, 2009)

lol 15 pages


----------



## Platinum (Jan 6, 2009)

Portia said:


> lol 15 pages



And i don't think we have even debated the fight yet . 

It's just been a Link vs Dante and Link Vs Sora thread .


----------



## Tendou Souji (Jan 6, 2009)

Why is this thread still going on when Sora would win this easily? Why is Link even in this fight?


----------



## Densoro (Jan 6, 2009)

A) No, I was not avoiding the question. You took my dismissal of your comment as a "You're absolutely right, Plat, and I want to make babies with your intellect." I could tell that there's no convincing you, so I said "Sure, believe what you want."

B) Okay, so I ask you, the more knowledgeable of the two of us regarding DMC if Yamato's wave counts as magic and you tell me to prove it. Fine, I call it magic, it gets reflected. Nice job, you coulda just scored yourself a point, but you were too busy namedropping fallacies to notice the tactical advantage you had waiting for you.

C) Have you played a Zelda game? You can't nail somebody through an invincible shield. He takes up less space when crouched; if he folds up nicely enough, he could put himself completely on the other side of the shield from Dante.
If you'd stop being so damn defensive, you'd realizing I'm not doubting Dante's aim, I'm saying that not much of Link's body would be exposed to nailing. God damn.

D) It's only ad nauseum because you keep making me repeat myself >___< If you would LISTEN TO MY FUCKING POINT, I wouldn't have to do it. ^___^ Rather than dismissing it all by avoiding the question.

See, this is why I dismissed you earlier. I could tell that it was gonna be like arguing with a brick with a bladder. You won't hear a damn thing I'm saying, you'll just keep trying to piss all over me.

EDIT: He's here because he deserves miles more credit than you guys give him ^^ It's just that none of you know how to use him.


----------



## the box (Jan 6, 2009)

these two cant even do damage to sora. 

sora was hit by fucking bullets and sniper crystal. he has been set on fire. crushed. and every form of pain imaginable


----------



## Platinum (Jan 6, 2009)

Referee said:


> A) No, I was not avoiding the question. You took my dismissal of your comment as a "You're absolutely right, Plat, and I want to make babies with your intellect." I could tell that there's no convincing you, so I said "Sure, believe what you want."



So you did not refute my point but your not avoiding the question? Okay then .



> B) Okay, so I ask you, the more knowledgeable of the two of us regarding DMC if Yamato's wave counts as magic and you tell me to prove it. Fine, I call it magic, it gets reflected. Nice job, you coulda just scored yourself a point, but you were too busy namedropping fallacies to notice the tactical advantage you had waiting for you.



I'll stop naming fallacies when you stop using them. 
And when you make a claim the burden of proof is on you not me.




> C) Have you played a Zelda game? You can't nail somebody through an invincible shield. He takes up less space when crouched; if he folds up nicely enough, he could put himself completely on the other side of the shield from Dante.



I have played Zelda games and by the time Link does that he is sliced in two by Yamato.



> If you'd stop being so damn defensive, you'd realizing I'm not doubting Dante's aim, I'm saying that not much of Link's body would be exposed to nailing. God damn.



I'm not being defensive i'm just calling your points out. 



> D) It's only ad nauseum because you keep making me repeat myself >___< If you would LISTEN TO MY FUCKING POINT, I wouldn't have to do it. ^___^ Rather than dismissing it all by avoiding the question.



How am i avoiding the question? i already told that Dante would kill him before he puts it on, you keep on ignoring the points that others keep posting like mine and Enclave's by using sarcastic remarks whenever you can't defeat our points. 



> See, this is why I dismissed you earlier. I could tell that it was gonna be like arguing with a brick with a bladder. You won't hear a damn thing I'm saying, you'll just keep trying to piss all over me.



Ad hominem.



> EDIT: He's here because he deserves miles more credit than you guys give him ^^ It's just that none of you know how to use him.



He is the weakest person in this fight, the only thing Link has going for him is hax items too bad he gets killed before he can equip them.

You just can't accept the fact that Dante and Sora are in a higher power tier than Link.

Whatever though i'm out .


----------



## Schneider (Jan 6, 2009)

I still haven't dismiss Just Guard and Just Release. If it's anyone to be debated with it's Sora, but Link..

And Dante also has L4Z0rzzzz.


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 6, 2009)

Ax_ said:


> Sorry, it's your job to provide proof of thnigs when you are asked.
> It's called burden of proof.
> 
> So please show me Dante shooting literally an infinite number of bullets.



Well, since this guy didn't answer my question, I accept that he conceeds, then.
Guess he lost and I won then, huh?


----------



## Schneider (Jan 6, 2009)

It's not infinite. It runs out when the game turns off.


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 6, 2009)

Schneider said:


> It's not infinite. It runs out when the game turns off.



He said it was infinite.
I asked for proof, and he hasn't shown it, even though he was here afterwards.
Besides, I very seriously doubt that the game can handle showing an infinite number of bullets, and I wanted to call this guy on i.

Thus I win.

Also, this thread has become a joke.
The OP just won't accept that physically Link is outmatched so much it isn't funny anymore.


----------



## Schneider (Jan 6, 2009)

There's no limit placed in the game for Dante's bullets, nor having him reload his guns once. That'd suck.

But infinite shooting is impossible, since eventually your PS2 will break down, or power outage, or your TV, your life, etc.


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 6, 2009)

Schneider said:


> There's no limit placed in the game for Dante's bullets, nor having him reload his guns once. That'd suck.
> 
> But infinite shooting is impossible, since eventually your PS2 will break down, or power outage, or your TV, your life, etc.



Still, he said it, and when I called him on that bullshit he didn't answer.
Also, if we go with game feats here, it means that Dante can only have a certain number of bullets fired, if I wanted to be an ass about it and go with that.

Still, bullets shouldn't bother Sora, since he has both survived and outmoved worse stuff.


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 6, 2009)

Sora goes Final form. The shock lightwave stuns them stopping them from doing anything, and then both link and dante get a keyblade through the head at the same time.


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 6, 2009)

Banhammer said:


> Sora goes Final form. The shock lightwave stuns them stopping them from doing anything, and then both link and dante get a keyblade through the head at the same time.



Sora could just casually speedblitz Link, given that we work with game stats.
Link won't have TIME to drink any stupid milk, no matter what the OP says.

For that matter, did I ever get an answer on when Link would manage to actually drink the milk?
He would just get speedblitz as soon as the fight started, while the real fighters, Sora and Dante, got on with it.


----------



## Narcissus (Jan 6, 2009)

Not to mention that Sora constantly reacts to or tanks lightning bolts, even from Larxene.


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 6, 2009)

We have better feats in lasers for this match, don't we?


----------



## Narcissus (Jan 6, 2009)

Indeed we do.  I was just stating the lightning because the lasers have already been brought up, so I was giving another feat.

In fact, I'm gonna go play some more Re: Chain of Memories right now.


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 6, 2009)

Lightning should be at most 50% of the speed of light, though...

Why limit ourselves to something like that, when we can have more fun with FTL Sora?


----------



## Densoro (Jan 6, 2009)

Plat
A) No, I wasn't avoiding the question. I was refuting the very point that drove you to ASK the question in the first place. "You already admitted Yamato would kill Link instantly." I did no such thing, I just saw that arguing with you would do nothing. You aren't gonna take a damn thing I say seriously =D
What I said was not an admission but a dismissal. Therefore, you had no reason to even ask your question, because it was based on the idea that I'd admitted something.

B) Yes, but how am I gonna know if a shockwave slash that I've seen once is a class of magic that the Mirror shield could use? I could just automatically assume it is and reflect all the strikes right back with the justification that "It's magic! =D" but I thought I'd be nicer and give you a chance to prove that it wouldn't work. You don't want it? Fine, you don't get it. Link reflects it, Dante eats it because he isn't expecting a glass shield do stop it.
Dante just cut his own head off =D

C) You're being defensive in that you think I'm attacking Dante's skills. I'm not saying that he's a bad shot, as you seem to think. What I'm saying is that when he can't SEE his target because there's an unbreakable metal plate in his way, he can't hit what's on the other side of said plate because said plate is freaking unbreakable. I don't get what's so hard to understand about this; oh, wait, that's right. You AREN'T LISTENING TO ANY OF MY POINTS.
A man with his hands clasped tightly over his eyes will walk into many telephone poles, and perhaps some heavy traffic >___>;

D) Yes, you did tell me that Dante would kill Link first. Many times. And just as many times, I told you that Link would put himself behind his unbreakable metal shield for just long enough to reach into his trousers and grab a cape. But you kept just saying "DANTE SHOOT LINK" over and over again, and I'm the one that's arguing ad nauseum? I already told you, if Link crouches behind the Mirror Shield, most if not all of his body is protected. You keep saying "HE SHOOT LINK!" Okay, smart one, HOW? When most of Link's body is behind, (Oh, I bet I'm arguing ad nauseum now, amirite?) an INVINCIBLE METAL PLATE, where's Dante gonna get a clean shot from? Headshot? No, that's behind the metal. Heart? Behind the metal. Shoulders? Behind the metal. Kneecaps? Maybe exposed enough to be grazed. Feet? Under his butt, which is behind the metal. I don't get what's so hard to understand about this.

E) Yes, but sometimes the person deserves to be argued against >__> When YOU say the same thing over and over again (Dante shoot Link) and I give the same response each time (which is a perfectly good one that you've yet to refute) and accuse me of arguing ad nauseum, that's called projection. Refute my point, don't just keep repeating yours until I say "Yeah, sure. Do whatever you want" again. Because it's been proven that you don't understand that, either.
Also, explain what's sarcastic about "You know, Link's physically more robust than many enemies that are capable of hurting Sora." I got sarcastic when he could not prove this and used argumentum ad populum, but before that, I was making legitimate points that my opponent wasn't refuting. I'm STARTING TO NOTICE A PATTERN HERE.

G) Too bad I've given you eightyfive billion and a half solutions to him getting killed before he can use them, but you've just refused to hear me out. Good going, dude. You're such an awesome debater.
I can perfectly well accept people being on a higher power tier than Link. The people from Jojos beat Link. Most superheroes beat Link. Most shounen anime characters beat Link. Gods beat Link. Superior swordsmen (however few and far between they are) beat Link. I have no problem admitting that; all I do as a fanboy is insist that Link's much cooler than they are.
If I argue that somebody can't beat Link, it's because I genuinely don't believe they can. So don't make me out to be some idiotic fanbitch having a temper tantrum because his favorite character can't win (ad hominem). The only reason I keep going is that you people still have yet to show me some fucking proof. ("Dante shoots Link."  "Link puts his entire body behind his shield."  "Dante shoots Link." Yes, nice proof)
Have I made you understand yet? Can you be arsed to read my fucking post for what it is? Or are you gonna keep projecting your fallacies onto me?

EDIT: About Link not getting to drink the milk, it seems you've missed about a hundred posts. Link could put on his magic item first, Link could hide behind his shield, Link could put on a DIFFERENT magic item, or a different one from that, Link could phase into the Darkworld and drink it there, then come back. etc etc etc


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 6, 2009)

No, he COULDN'T.
He doesn't get any prep to do that at the start of thefight, so he can only put on his magc items as soon as the fight begins.

Only he won't get the time to do that, since he isn't fast enough to do so before he either gets a bullet through the head from Dante or either Sora or Dante cuts him to pieces.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 6, 2009)

Okay, and why does the portal to the Darkworld that he's carrying with him not work? And why doesn't putting up his shield save him from your beloved headshot? And why am I having to argue that against two people and like fifteen posts now? Link sees Dante reaching for something that looks like a cannon, he's gonna put up his shield while his dominant hand grabs for something that could save his ass. Dante fires, it hits shield, not head. Link finishes fishing in his pocket for aforementioned ass-saver and activates it.

Link with his full body behind a shield isn't gonna be taking a bullet. His shield will T_____T Why can't I make people understand that? If there's something in the way of your target and you fire anyway, you won't be hitting your target. I don't know how else to say it. I would draw up a little diagram, but I suck at drawing.


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 6, 2009)

Listen, Link isn't fast enough to put up his shield, or reach for an item, or anything like that, unless you give proof that he, at the damn well least, is somewhere around supersonic-hypersonic.

And this is still me being generous.

Also, Link doesn't have the strength feat to generally handle a full out attack from either Sora or Dante with just his shield, unless you can prove he can match strength with someone capable of cutting through skyscrapers as a casual strength/cutting feat or even how his shield would handle such punishment.

Can you prove any of this, with vids?


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 6, 2009)

Referee said:


> Okay, and why does the portal to the Darkworld that he's carrying with him not work? And why doesn't putting up his shield save him from your beloved headshot? And why am I having to argue that against two people and like fifteen posts now? Link sees Dante reaching for something that looks like a cannon, he's gonna put up his shield while his dominant hand grabs for something that could save his ass. Dante fires, it hits shield, not head. Link finishes fishing in his pocket for aforementioned ass-saver and activates it.
> 
> Link with his full body behind a shield isn't gonna be taking a bullet. His shield will T_____T Why can't I make people understand that? If there's something in the way of your target and you fire anyway, you won't be hitting your target. I don't know how else to say it. I would draw up a little diagram, but I suck at drawing.



Dante can pull out and fire his guns way faster than Link can react to it.  Also the shield does not totally cover Links body, being that Dante has insane accuracy I think that anything on Link from his waist down would be shot to hell.  Link would have to spend the entire match sitting behind that shield because 1 look and he'll get shot in his eye lol.  Also if he's invisible maybe he'll get 1 arrow off before 100 bullets hit the spot where the arrow came from.  I'm sorry I don't care what kind of shield you have you will get shot if a guy is shooting 1000 bullets at you, come on man.  

Now that I think about it this fight would be so retarded if your telling me that Link will start out ducking behind his mirror shield, then he will put on his invisibility cape while ducking behind said shield, and then kill two characters with insane durability with arrows without getting gunned down.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 6, 2009)

Sad to say there are no vids of EG Link =/ Anyway, if Dante pulled out his guns at supersonic speed, there'd be a shockwave every single time he reached for them. I'm not asking Link to react to a bullet, I'm saying that he can react to a hand. If Link can watch Dante's hand (which I would like some video proof of being supersonic, too) go to a gun (and Link knows at least a little about what a gun is) without reacting and allows Dante to (supersonically? Proof please) point his gun at his forehead without doing jack shit, then yes, that's a headshot. He's not a bullet-timer. An arrow-timer, sure, but not bullets.

All I'm saying is that if you see somebody go to draw a ranged weapon that could kill your ass dead before you know it, if you have an invincible shield at hand, you're gonna put it in front of your face.

I maintain that strength doesn't have jack to do with cutting a skyscraper and that it was all the sharpness of the Keyblade alone, but meh. I can't find a video of Link letting King Dodongo roll into his shield infinitely because that's something that only I'm bored enough to do, and I can't take videos. But Link can lift Link removed without Power Bracelets or Golden Gauntlets, both of which equip upon being found. With one or the other, he can lift chunks of stone about the same size as the skyscrapers he baseballed at Xemnas Link removed That's the smallest one he lifted. The others were bigger, but I can't find videos of them. Nor can I find videos of Link using the Golden Gauntlets in OoT DX
Oh, wait, here's one Link removed At around 3:40.

But yeah. Young Link could hold off a giant dragon bodyslamming his shield and not fall back. TP Link is much stronger. Then give him PB and GG. I think that'll work.

EDIT: Oh, Link can dodge lasers, too, BTW =D Since you guys are so keen on those. Beamos.


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 6, 2009)

Even if it was the keyblades who did the cutting, that same cutting power will now be used against Link, from behind him.

Also, the games are slowed down in order for us, the players, to play the games.

And can Link dodge 5-6 lasers at once coming from all directions?
That is what Sora had to deal with at the end.
And did Link aim dodge or did he jump away after the laser, as you call it, flew at him?
And is it called a laser by the game, or beam?
Because that could mean it could just be a magical beam of energy fired at him.

And how much did the dragon weigh, and how fast did it fly into him?
In short, what Class would Link have to be to handle that?

And that stone wasn't anywhere near what Sora and Riku were literally kicking around in order to hit T Xemnas on his flying dragon nobody who was using its wings to protect him.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 6, 2009)

If it hits Link, then yeah, he'll be pretty badly cut. Yamato-level. But you were asking if he could take their attacks to his shield without breaking stance.

Slowed down or not, Dante would still make a shockwave if he had sonic hands. It'd just be slower.

Regarding the 1000 Lasers feat, you ever notice that them blocking creates a shell of air in front of them? About the size of a shield? It's a quickish animation, so if you missed it, I can understand. But it's there. So it's not like they were slashing six lasers at once. They were putting up one shield that took six lasers at a time, then putting up that shield at the next closest attack point, then the next, then the next.

I didn't call the laser "flying" o_O But anyway. Jump dodge, but if your timing's good enough, you can make it out of the way at the time of firing. And the "laser or beam" arguments works for Sora's 1000 feat, too. Sure, they call it a laser, but its characteristics aren't correct. Especially since MY eyes could follow their path. They moved at the speed of 1000 Baseballs. 

It didn't fly. It was King Dodongo. He rolls. How much does he weigh? I dunno. Is it a lot? Yes. Being that he's so huge that Link could clone with the Four Sword and all of them could still fit in its mouth. 
And I don't know my Classes. At least not if you're talking about the ones that people use for superheroes and which have random 1-digit numbers as their name.

I edited another video into that post before you posted ^^; Finally found Golden Gauntlets. So with GG and PB, add the size of that stone (or any of the bigger ones that you find in the game that I can't find video of) to the size of the pillar he lifts. If he's throwing, then add the size of the Goron miniboss. If he's blocking, add the size of King Dodongo.

Also, just thought of a speed feat. Link removed At about 30 seconds, an arrow's about to hit him in the back of the head. Once he starts running, though, he widens the gap between them almost instantly. And if you watched all the way from 0:00, you'd see that he was equipped with an ocarina, not Pegasus Boots. He's learned Pegasus running. Now add to that Pegasus Boots and the Smash Bros Bunny Hood, plus consider that TP Link has the speed of blade to do two Spin Attacks even though he looks like he only spun around once. There are two circular motion trails when he's done.
Speedy enough yet?


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 6, 2009)

A couple of things
Your eyes could follow the lasers speficially because the game was slowed down

Actually, I'm talking about Class as in how many tons a character can throw around.
And mind posting a vid where Link has tanked damage equal to cutting apart skyscrapers.

And outrunning an arrow isn't good enough, sorry.
Not when compared to Sora.
Those arguing primarily for Dante can do so on their own.

As for the laser bit...
Sora was swinging a keyblade around, and hit the lasers.
Where do you get that they make shields of wind, anyway?
I can't see that, even when I tried looking for it.

Anyway, lets go back to destructive capacity of Link..what can he dish ou, in terms of destroying stuff?
Because I seriously doubt the light arrows are going to hurt Sora, the guy who saved alot of worlds, of all people


----------



## Densoro (Jan 6, 2009)

I'm no good at eyeballing weights, especially tons.

Not even taking arrow-outrunning speed and stacking those other things on top of it? D= Though I'm not asking for him to 100% match Sora, just be fast enough to do jack shit.

About the air shield bit, I forgot to clear up, I was talking about the Guard ability in general. And now that I look at it again, the Guard shield's much bigger than a normal shield o_O I just figured he was using it there, too.

Anyway, Link can cut through metal armor with a short sword, break pillars from 20 feet away by chucking a bastard sword (and that was puny little Wind Waker Link), and as said before, he can overpower Ganondorf. His Fire Arrows, when shot into the water, turn the entire sea bright red; Ice Arrows make it all a mistier blue. This carries for as far as the eye can see. He can easily pierce a Dragon's hide (this time talking about Argorok from Twilight Princess) and reel flying lizardmen in like fish. And he can jump several feet into the air wearing Iron Boots. All of this is without any enhancement items.

Oh, something that just occurred to me. If I remember right, there are birds flying under the City in the Sky dungeon in TP. It's that high up. So when a cannon fires him back down and he lands in the water, I imagine that's as good as Sora's supposed atmospheric reentry. Durability feat. There's also the fact that he can jump off cliffs the size of skyscrapers and, if you know what you're doing, he won't take any damage from it. If you pushed any of those buildings that Sora cut off a skyscraper, though, I imagine that would do some damage to them.

*is glad to actually be debating with somebody who listens to what he's saying again =D*


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 6, 2009)

No, sorry, that arrow won't be able to match that, ever.
At absolutely ridiculously insanely best, that will, if I'm feeling really, really, REALLY nice and say that the arrow is somehow now suddenly some kind of super arrow, it will still only be supersonic...
At least for Sora, that is nothing.

About the shield thing..I'm sorry, but I honestly can't see it.
Granted, that might be because I'm nt looking at stuff in HD, but I can' find any like that...
Are you sure that Sora actually uses a shield whenever he swings his keyblade?

That metal should only be comparable to what we could do in the dark ages, or around that level...
Not even that, since aside from the Twili, our tech level at that point was beyond what Zeldaverse seemed to be able to have, at least the Hylians.

Do you have any vid of the city in the sky?
Something without spoilers, perhaps?
I'm horrible at playing Zelda games...

As for the weight of stuff, Gorons generally can't weigh more than at most 1-2 tons or so...


----------



## Densoro (Jan 6, 2009)

=/ So even completely Speedspecced, Link gets blitzed?

Meh, if it's so hard to see, then it probably doesn't matter much XD Forget I said anything.

You mean the metal of Darknut armor? It's still metal; cutting through that is a nice achievement, since it's there to make sure you DON'T get cut through.
*wishes Link could've met a Darknut in the Twilight Realm, all transformed by the realm shift*

There are plenty of videos of it, and the only spoiler that you're likely to see is the fact that you run around a flying castle filled with chickenpeople. If knowing that much bothers you...
Only problem I'm having at the moment is finding a vid of somebody falling into a pit. Damn these people for not sucking! DX We can't see under the city until somebody falls there.

Oh damn, a ton already? =D I was thinking maybe a few hundred pounds. If the normal ones have tonnage, then the Goron mines miniboss...He'd be 2-4, I imagine.


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 6, 2009)

Goddamn, I'm tired.
This is the last thing I'll say for tonight.

Anyway, when I'm talking about a goron weighing tons, I was actually talking about the one who in OoT who was that huge thing...
That is the upper limit, which is why I said at most, since I have yet to see anyone bigger than that.


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 6, 2009)

the more metal you give lnk, the harder Sora will lol at it when using a magnetic spell

Also, does he have superstrength or can Sora just gravity fuck him, causing his body to colapse upon it's own weight?


----------



## Densoro (Jan 6, 2009)

His strength can get pretty damn super. Take Twilight Princess Link, who can throw the third-biggest Goron I've ever seen several feet through the air. Give him the boulder-lifting Power Bracelets and the Golden Gauntlets and he should be pretty damn good. Din's Charm makes things even better. Never mind the damage-increasing rings I'm forgetting.
Durability comes into it, too, and of course, we've got Heart Barrier, Blue Bracelet, and Red Ring. 1/16th of the damage Sora was intending to cause.
He should be decently safe from Graviga.


----------



## Purgatory (Jan 6, 2009)

Irvine Kinneas said:


> Why is this thread still going on when Dante would win this easily? Why is Link even in this fight?



Fixed for truth.


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 6, 2009)

Referee said:


> His strength can get pretty damn super. Take Twilight Princess Link, who can throw the third-biggest Goron I've ever seen several feet through the air. Give him the boulder-lifting Power Bracelets and the Golden Gauntlets and he should be pretty damn good. Din's Charm makes things even better. Never mind the damage-increasing rings I'm forgetting.
> Durability comes into it, too, and of course, we've got Heart Barrier, Blue Bracelet, and Red Ring. 1/16th of the damage Sora was intending to cause.
> He should be decently safe from Graviga.



So he's either got too much junk to escape magnega or not enough to survive graviga.

Good to know.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 6, 2009)

If I'm not mistaken, doesn't Magnega have a certain pulling range?


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 6, 2009)

Referee said:


> If it hits Link, then yeah, he'll be pretty badly cut. Yamato-level. But you were asking if he could take their attacks to his shield without breaking stance.
> 
> Slowed down or not, Dante would still make a shockwave if he had sonic hands. It'd just be slower.
> 
> ...



Using real world physics ftl.  Out of all games, manga, and anime, how many supersonic beings make a sonic boom when they move?  If you wanna talk real then fine.  Why is it that link can move while carrying boots in which he can barely walk?


----------



## Enclave (Jan 6, 2009)

Schneider said:


> There's no limit placed in the game for Dante's bullets, nor having him reload his guns once. That'd suck.
> 
> But infinite shooting is impossible, since eventually your PS2 will break down, or power outage, or your TV, your life, etc.



There's no limit to Nero's bullets in the game in DMC 4, however in one of the first cutscenes in the game we see him needing to reload.  It's clear that they do not have infinite shots with their weapons, they are however super humanly adept at reloading.



> Even if it was the keyblades who did the cutting, that same cutting power will now be used against Link, from behind him.



Actually, even if the Keyblade does have an edge that is capable of cutting skyscrapers (which it obviously does) that doesn't mean anybody could cut a skyscraper using a Keyblade.  It would still take a large amount of super human strength to pull it off.  A sharp blade can only reduce the difficulty of a cut so much.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 6, 2009)

Doom, the same reason Dante's unencumbered by having more than one sword in his pants ^_____^ Inventory!
Now if you wanna talk completely in video game physics, Sora couldn't possibly cut Link in half because he's a living thing. He'd just bonk him. Link would return the favor. And Dante's bullets do as much damage as spitballs. With Link's durability items on, they'll do absolutely no damage, and in order to hurt him in the slightest, you'll need to originally do 4 hearts worth of damage. But judging by their weapon class, they won't be able to unless they use some special uber attack that's hard to spam. So Link can be invinsible for _free_. But sure, we can play by gameplay rules =D
Oh, wait. Then Dante's hands still wouldn't be supersonic because he has to move slow enough for players to keep up with him.

So Enclave, if it was possible to have an atomically sharp blade that won't break, it wouldn't glide right through solid matter as though it was water? o_O


----------



## Enclave (Jan 6, 2009)

Referee said:


> So Enclave



Ya, I thought I already told you I was done with you?  You'll notice that I didn't quote anything you said.


----------



## Sasaki Kojirō (Jan 6, 2009)

Link with all items from every game is invisible, invincible, has infinite magic and can rain fire and lightning on a whim...

Actually that's just from Link to the Past save for infinite magic.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 6, 2009)

Look at Enclave, the big awesome debater running from a guy just because he can't disprove the guy's point =/ I won't pursue that, but at least don't grab a high horse to sit on when that's the case. Especially when you're arguing a point that I brought up; that throws you back into the argument with _me_. So now, all you're doing is offering more shit that you're not gonna back up.
That doesn't do a damn thing, so really, you have no reason to be in the thread.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 6, 2009)

*can't believe this is still going on*
*reads Referee's latest post*
*rolls on floor laughing*
*points as Enclave and laughs*
*takes deep breath*
*laughs some more*
*decides to continue using this posting style for as long as it amuses him*


----------



## Enclave (Jan 6, 2009)

Onomatopoeia said:


> *can't believe this is still going on*
> *reads Referee's latest post*
> *rolls on floor laughing*
> *points as Enclave and laughs*
> ...



Now I'm curious as to what Referee just said.  Oh well, don't care enough to go editing my settings.


----------



## Vault (Jan 6, 2009)

Im seeing a no limits on Sora's reflect 

Dante uses Dreadnaught 

gg

mind you Dante slices through dimensions with the yamato


----------



## Densoro (Jan 6, 2009)

*reads up on Dreadnaught, hears that it's invincible, comes here for clarification*
Doesn't seem to last too long, based on the video I saw...He'll just wait it out.

Okay, so it has fancy-ass workings. Cool. But the end result is long-range air-cut. Which currently will phase right through Link, and after that runs out, it'll do 1/16th of its normal damage. And I doubt that'll still be enough to kill him; if it was that sharp, it'd cut through the sheath and take Dante's leg off >___>


----------



## Sengoku (Jan 6, 2009)

Sora fucks Zelda.

Next.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 6, 2009)

And Kairi shoves her Keyblade up Sora's urethra when she finds out. There won't be a next ^^


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 6, 2009)

Referee said:


> *reads up on Dreadnaught, hears that it's invincible, comes here for clarification*
> Doesn't seem to last too long, based on the video I saw...He'll just wait it out.
> 
> Okay, so it has fancy-ass workings. Cool. But the end result is long-range air-cut. Which currently will phase right through Link, and after that runs out, it'll do 1/16th of its normal damage. And I doubt that'll still be enough to kill him; if it was that sharp, it'd cut through the sheath and take Dante's leg off >___>



Dammit man Link cant beat Dante!!!  How could you play any Zelda Game and any DMC game and then continue to post this rubbish?  Your gonna make me go crazy!!!!!


----------



## Densoro (Jan 6, 2009)

Simple. I've seen that Link has more skill than Dante. Dante grabs a sword, decides it's weighty enough, and slams it around. Not as bad as Kratos or anything, but God damn e___e It's terrible.
Link grabs a sword, sees that it's sharp, and quickly puts it in his opponent's head. See, that's good swordsmanship ^^
That's how I can play either and still feel this way. And of course, Dante's gun is a Roleplaying-style one.


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 6, 2009)

Referee said:


> Simple. I've seen that Link has more skill than Dante. Dante grabs a sword, decides it's weighty enough, and slams it around. Not as bad as Kratos or anything, but God damn e___e It's terrible.
> Link grabs a sword, sees that it's sharp, and quickly puts it in his opponent's head. See, that's good swordsmanship ^^
> That's how I can play either and still feel this way. And of course, Dante's gun is a Roleplaying-style one.



But this debate isnt about swordsmanship its about Link a kid in a green tunic with a damn boomerang, sling shot, and a fairy in a bottle against a The son of muther fucking Sparda, oh and Sora!!!


----------



## Densoro (Jan 6, 2009)

Yay, you know titles and histories! Now know (in case everything so far didn't make it obvious) that Link has _far_ more than a sling shot and a boomerang and that Sparda's son most likely shames his father's legacy ^______^


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 6, 2009)

Referee said:


> Yay, you know titles and histories! Now know (in case everything so far didn't make it obvious) that Link has _far_ more than a sling shot and a boomerang and that Sparda's son most likely shames his father's legacy ^______^



Yea I've played most of the Zelda Games, like I said earlier A Link to the Past and Ocarina of time are two of my favorite games.  I don't think you've played a single DMC however lol.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 6, 2009)

I have. Dante's a douche who does not at all live up to how Sparda is presented.


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 6, 2009)

Onomatopoeia said:


> I have. Dante's a douche who does not at all live up to how Sparda is presented.



But he does, even though he is super cocky and arrogant he protects humanity with tooth and nail and is able to defeat superior demons because of it.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 6, 2009)

There's more to living up to an image than just killing demons and being an asshole is not how you do it.


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 6, 2009)

Onomatopoeia said:


> There's more to living up to an image than just killing demons and being an asshole is not how you do it.



So how do you do it?  I guess saving the world from demons isn't living up to his father's image, wait what did his father do again?  Just because he's an asshole to the damn demons that he is killing doesn't make him a bad guy, Dante has sworn to never kill any humans, and like I said the reason he is strong enough to kill superior demons is because of his will to protect demons.  I think some of you take his attitude a bit too personal, maybe someone was bullied in high school lol.  

Furthermore take Link and put him in Dante's world, how frigging long would he last? PV FOR GHOST WAS RELEASED I dont think Link would make it out of there alive.  Now on the other hand Dante in Hyrule: PV FOR GHOST WAS RELEASED ARE YOU SERIOUS?!??!


----------



## Densoro (Jan 6, 2009)

"Tooth and nail" =/= well. I'm sure he gives his very best effort, and while it's enough to save the world, that only makes him good by his world's standards. He's not great, but his world doesn't need greatness to be saved.
Also, I ran a speed run of DMC 1 (my first time, other than trying when I was a little kid and getting too scared it'd kick my ass) and played the 360 demo of 4 a couple of times. Which used Nero, not Dante, but I've heard they fight the same anyway.

He's good by action game standards, but action games are known for being too damn flashy to worry about good tactics. Plus, accomplishments in them (like killing Zeus, for instance >__>) mean little because in order for your poor tactics to save your ass, the enemy's must be every bit as bad. That, or their stats get nerfed, and then you get Dynasty Warriors, where slamming the X button kills you 57.5 people a second and you start disconnecting (and another gimp on action games: guns in them are always seemingly made by Hasbro. Makes pure game-physics fights a pain, when all a headshot will do is slightly bruise the enemy's ego). Gotta keep the players' adrenaline pumping.

And yeah, Sparda was made out to be some complete badass. Dante's stats, Link's skill, and an appreciable code of honor. What's not to like?
Dante inherited 1/3 =/ Fail. I mean literally, that's a 33%

EDIT: First of all, that fight in Dante's office would be rather easy. Link's not the type to sit around eating pizza when somebody's come along looking for a fight, so no getting scytheblitzed; he's Parry Attack over the first one, killing it instantly with the holy power of the Blade of Evil's Bane. Then he'd shank all the rest, too. It'd be simple.
Second, Gohma? FAIL.


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 6, 2009)

Referee said:


> "Tooth and nail" =/= well. I'm sure he gives his very best effort, and while it's enough to save the world, that only makes him good by his world's standards. He's not great, but his world doesn't need greatness to be saved.
> Also, I ran a speed run of DMC 1 (my first time, other than trying when I was a little kid and getting too scared it'd kick my ass) and played the 360 demo of 4 a couple of times. Which used Nero, not Dante, but I've heard they fight the same anyway.
> 
> He's good by action game standards, but action games are known for being too damn flashy to worry about good tactics. Plus, accomplishments in them (like killing Zeus, for instance >__>) mean little because in order for your poor tactics to save your ass, the enemy's must be every bit as bad. That, or their stats get nerfed, and then you get Dynasty Warriors, where slamming the X button kills you 57.5 people a second and you start disconnecting (and another gimp on action games: guns in them are always seemingly made by Hasbro. Makes pure game-physics fights a pain, when all a headshot will do is slightly bruise the enemy's ego). Gotta keep the players' adrenaline pumping.
> ...



Did you just say that it takes greatness to defeat giant Dodongos spiders, and the fodder king Ganondorf but that any random guy can defeat Mundus the Emperor of the Demon World and his legions?

*Sigh* you know what although I disagree with you I shall concede.  I'm tired and your unwavering faith in Link, though misguided, is commendable.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 7, 2009)

Not any random guy, but any random guy with a magic sword and the ability to tank some attacks ^^ Which, surprise surprise, Link has! =D

Also, I've looked up all the battles for the DMCs I don't own. Lasers all over the place e______e I feel bad for you guys. Munched by the Mirror Shield. Link would be all over that.
Can Dante, on the other hand, get through the expert swordsmanship of Ganondorf, who can instantly block any blow, no matter where it comes from? His speed of blade is better than Link's despite his size; Link wins by virtue of staying behind his shield and overpowering Ganondorf. Does Dante have the strength?

Also, how's Dante's armor-piercing? If that's low, then _Darknuts_ would be beyond him. And what about solving all the puzzles just to GET to the challenges?


----------



## fantagasm (Jan 7, 2009)

A mod needs to close this thread Link dosen't even have a chance


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 7, 2009)

Enclave said:


> Actually, even if the Keyblade does have an edge that is capable of cutting skyscrapers (which it obviously does) that doesn't mean anybody could cut a skyscraper using a Keyblade.  It would still take a large amount of super human strength to pull it off.  A sharp blade can only reduce the difficulty of a cut so much.


Fine by me.
Either way, Sora gets his strength feats as well, which includes, IIRC, kocking said cut skyscrapers back into the dragon, which I already said.



The Faint Smile said:


> Link with all items from every game is invisible, invincible, has infinite magic and can rain fire and lightning on a whim...
> 
> Actually that's just from Link to the Past save for infinite magic.


Only he shouldn't be fast enough to do any of that, given what his speed is at the moment.



Referee said:


> And Kairi shoves her Keyblade up Sora's urethra when she finds out. There won't be a next ^^



Yeah, she can keep on dreaming.
Kairi is so low tier it hurts to even mention her in this game universe.

Also, if we go by titles and accomplishments, Sora takes this
Keyblade Wielder and savior of several worlds to, aqt most, 2-3 others when compared to Link and the majoras mask game hyrule and that twilight place.


----------



## Enclave (Jan 7, 2009)

Ax_ said:


> Fine by me.
> Either way, Sora gets his strength feats as well, which includes, IIRC, kocking said cut skyscrapers back into the dragon, which I already said.



Pretty certain I'd mentioned earlier in the thread Sora's playing baseball with skyscrapers as well


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 7, 2009)

Enclave said:


> Pretty certain I'd mentioned earlier in the thread Sora's playing baseball with skyscrapers as well



You did?
Well, in my defense, this thing has over 18 pages...

You can't be so cruel as to force me to look through them all, can you?


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 7, 2009)

Referee said:


> Not any random guy, but any random guy with a magic sword and the ability to tank some attacks ^^ Which, surprise surprise, Link has! =D
> 
> Also, I've looked up all the battles for the DMCs I don't own. Lasers all over the place e______e I feel bad for you guys. Munched by the Mirror Shield. Link would be all over that.
> Can Dante, on the other hand, get through the expert swordsmanship of Ganondorf, who can instantly block any blow, no matter where it comes from? His speed of blade is better than Link's despite his size; Link wins by virtue of staying behind his shield and overpowering Ganondorf. Does Dante have the strength?
> ...



First of all Link durability is for the sake of game play, its the same reason Dante can actually die when you play with him but can walk around impaled in the cut scenes.  Secondly is this the expert swordsmanship your talking about? Don't You Cry  I guess Dante cant jump over Link as well as Ganon can right?

Maybe this is the expert swordsman Ganon that your talking about? Don't You Cry

You seem to think that A half devil with superior speed, agility, and durability should use "realistic sword skills" but that makes no sense.  First of all we're talking about fictional characters, secondly we're talking about a guy who doesn't need to block and who is fast and strong enough to overwhelm his enemy.  Link can only hold that shield up for so long, and blows from average creatures actually push him back a bit.  It not link Link can block building destroying lasers, he get pushed back from lasers from fodder statues.  Link also can't block quickly from multiple directions if you go by game play.

This is an expert swordsman: Link removed That shield would stop anything of this magnitude sorry.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 7, 2009)

Dante's not expert, just really fast. But he'd be faster still if he wasn't such a showoff. As is, my eyes can follow his moves pretty easily. If he ever picked up (and properly used) a rapier, I'm certain he'd be too fast for me. But you can't show off like that, so that's not something he'll do.
Also, I disagree. Link's shield could easily take that. Those blows can't have as much force as a freaking Dodongo tackling him, and when his strength is further boosted, there's no doubt about it.

Anyway, the first video is in fact said expert swordsmanship. His strikes aren't very fast, but his blocking is perfect. You aren't gonna sneak any attacks past that, you have to overwhelm him in sheer strength.

Realistic sword skills make sense no matter what your physical stats are. Imagine, what if Dante didn't follow his strikes through after they landed? What if, the moment they hit, he went straight for another attack? That would shave seconds off his time, and overwhelm the enemy even more. This is what I've been saying. No matter how hax his body is, he isn't using it to its fullest. A speedy body with a slow sword style is still slower than it could be. Give it a fast style and you bring out its true potential.
Also, show me when fodder statues beat Link's shield arm. I seem to have trouble remembering it. Though if you're talking about Beamos, that's because they shoot his legs out from underneath him.
And again, Link's durability isn't gameplay-only when you factor in all his attack-reducing items. Though being gameplay-only isn't bad in this thread, as that was the condition in the OP ^______^


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 7, 2009)

> This is an expert swordsman: Link removed That shield would stop anything of this magnitude sorry.



Maybe I'm not up to date on what qualifies as a sword these days, but that looks more like Cerberus than any of Dante's swords.




> Link removed



Hurray for posting something from the 2-d game that can not properly show the extent of his skill. Poisoning the Well FTL!


----------



## Vault (Jan 7, 2009)

Yamato cuts through dimensions either way them guys are fucked 

and Dreadnaught runs out for the sake of gameplay im sure.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 7, 2009)

> Yamato cuts through dimensions either way them guys are fucked


And it does that in gameplay does it?


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 7, 2009)

Portia said:


> Yamato cuts through dimensions either way them guys are fucked



Vids of the Yamato doing this in gameplay, now.


----------



## Vault (Jan 7, 2009)

Ax_ said:


> Vids of the Yamato doing this in gameplay, now.


----------



## skiboydoggy (Jan 7, 2009)

Realistic sword techniques are for the weak. The only reason why Dante does what he does is because he overwhelms in enemies so completely in the game that his focus is on _style_ rather than skill. You know that combo meter that comes up in DMC? That thing is based on how much _style_ you are fighting with. Sure, you could probably maul all of them by repeating Stinger over and over again, but when you can juggle them with Ebony and Ivory, then build airtime by launching yourself with said pistols, stab the guy a few times in the air for good measure, then change to your shotgun and blast him into tiny little bits before pulling out your nunchucks and shattering his skull into next week...

_Duuude._

And a person who has trouble wielding the Biggoron Sword impresses me not. Sora Final Form TKs his blades into Link. Screw sword skills, his swords fly.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 7, 2009)

For something that cuts through dimensions it did a pretty good job of not killing the dude.




> Sora Final Form TKs his blades into Link.



I don't think he can use FF solo.


----------



## skiboydoggy (Jan 7, 2009)

Onomatopoeia said:


> I don't think he can use FF solo.



Oh, damn. Forgot about his issues with fusing. >_>
Hell, he goes Heartless and kills Link. Because Heartless Sora is so fun to play, even if he is weak as hell. MASSIVE COMBOS.


----------



## Vault (Jan 7, 2009)

> For something that cuts through dimensions it did a pretty good job of not killing the dude.



because its gameplay if that did happen what would be the fucking point


----------



## Densoro (Jan 7, 2009)

And then Link teleports away in Wolf form, transforms back, and sinks a Light Arrow into Heartless Sora ^____^ Ouch.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 7, 2009)

Portia said:


> because its gameplay if that did happen what would be the fucking point



The point is the kill the bad guys. If you've got an attack that can cut through dimensions, why shouldn't it be able to kill random mooks?


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Jan 7, 2009)

The point is to kill them as stylishly as possible.  Getting a one-hit kill isn't stylish at all.

Also gameplay mechanics.


----------



## Vault (Jan 7, 2009)

umm lets see, because in gameplay that would be too broken ?


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Jan 7, 2009)

And stuff like dimension cutting is unquantifiable, last I checked.  

That should be a decent explanation.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 7, 2009)

Yeah, and why don't we all take a glance at the OP, guys? "Stats equivalent to those shown in gameplay."
Well huh. Maybe that means that we could go with stuff in gameplay.


----------



## Vault (Jan 7, 2009)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> And stuff like dimension cutting is unquantifiable, last I checked.
> 
> That should be a decent explanation.



Yet Kawabara gets the green light


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 7, 2009)

Portia said:


> umm lets see, because in gameplay that would be too broken ?



As opposed to something like, say infinite devil trigger combined with Nevan's flight and spamming lightning because no one can touch you unless you screw up?

Or even combine that with Quicksilver? And this isn't broken compared to a charge up move that can insta-kill the weakest mooks in the game?


----------



## Vault (Jan 7, 2009)

No infinite DT isnt really infinite because this one doesnt, heal your wounds. 

Ono i get you hate Dante but there is stuff you just have to admit


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 7, 2009)

Who needs to regenerate wounds when Nevan + Quicksilver means the enemies can't touch you?


----------



## Vault (Jan 7, 2009)

Vergil touches you


----------



## ChidoriCurrent (Jan 7, 2009)

Referee said:


> And then Link teleports away in Wolf form, transforms back, and sinks a Light Arrow into Heartless Sora ^____^ Ouch.



Too bad for Link to go in to wolf form he has to be in the twilight realm. Really shows you know a lot about the zelda series. I really don't see the point of this thread. All you do is give link more and more techniques yet you constantly downgrade Sora and Dantes superior skills. I wonder why you maxed out Link but Won't Max out Sora and Dante. Probably because you know he'll get curbstomped.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 7, 2009)

Yes, who would think that a boss fight could be set up so that you can't completely ignore damage.


----------



## Vault (Jan 7, 2009)

Lol stop contradicting yourself 

Which means this isnt true DT because the DT we all know regenarates health, i wonder why they took that off 

hmm lemme think, because those are the gameplay mechanics


----------



## Densoro (Jan 7, 2009)

Actually, Chidori, Link gains the ability to go Wolf form anytime he wants. Shows how much you know about Zelda ^________^
I'm not downgrading Sora or Dante. They've done enough to themselves, I'm just taking advantage of it. When you spin around in a sword duel, that's like saying "Hey, I don't wanna live! Could you please scratch my back with your sword? Righto, thanks ^____x" Their styles are practically BASED on spinning around. Because I guess it looks cooler.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 7, 2009)

You still have not explained why it is more broken for a dimension killing attack to instantly kill the weakest enemies in the game than it is for you to be able to fly over the majority of your enemies' attacks, while time is slowed to a crawl, completely avoid all damage with some fancy dodging skills AND be able to spam an attack that will have your enemies dead in a matter of seconds.

Why is this combination less broken than the Dimension Slicing OHK?


----------



## ChidoriCurrent (Jan 7, 2009)

Referee said:


> Actually, Chidori, Link gains the ability to go Wolf form anytime he wants. Shows how much you know about Zelda ^________^
> I'm not downgrading Sora or Dante. They've done enough to themselves, I'm just taking advantage of it. When you spin around in a sword duel, that's like saying "Hey, I don't wanna live! Could you please scratch my back with your sword? Righto, thanks ^____x" Their styles are practically BASED on spinning around. Because I guess it looks cooler.



Really? Last i checked Link automatically goes Wolf form in the twilight realm, and after you beat Zant he still needs Midna to be able to go wolf form. And Midna isn't included in this battle. I really don't see  how difficult it would be for Sora to just throw his sword and chop of Link's head before he even Drinks the milk, or puts on the cape. :/


----------



## Densoro (Jan 7, 2009)

Midna's here as much as are Stitch and Tinkerbell and whatever other summons Sora had except Genie because reality-warping is grade-A bullshit. Making people randomly not exist, bah >___>;


----------



## ChidoriCurrent (Jan 7, 2009)

Referee said:


> Midna's here as much as are Stitch and Tinkerbell and whatever other summons Sora had except Genie because reality-warping is grade-A bullshit. Making people randomly not exist, bah >___>;



Ok take out the summons and let Sora have Goofy and Donald. Then. Oh wait then Sora will be able to go Final Form right and Link will lose. So you won't do that will you  and i'm guessing putting on a cape that makes you invisible and drinking milk that makes you invincible for 15 days isn't Grade-A Bullshit


----------



## skiboydoggy (Jan 7, 2009)

Referee said:


> Actually, Chidori, Link gains the ability to go Wolf form anytime he wants. Shows how much you know about Zelda ^________^
> I'm not downgrading Sora or Dante. They've done enough to themselves, I'm just taking advantage of it. When you spin around in a sword duel, that's like saying "Hey, I don't wanna live! Could you please scratch my back with your sword? Righto, thanks ^____x" Their styles are practically BASED on spinning around. Because I guess it looks cooler.



Wow, just wow.
Circular motions allow you to hit things that are behind you while you take a swing. It also increases your momentum so you can smash other people's faces in more easily. I could just as easily say that Link is being dumb for not adopting a style more suited to engaging multiple inferior enemies when that is clearly what he is going to have to go through the entire game.
Sure, their styles are probably more suited for a staff than a sword, but what the hell. Alastor/Rebellion/WhateverDanteIsWielding is heavy as hell, and the Keyblade clearly lacks a blade. Let them use their blunt weapon styles and their clearly massive physical advantage.

Also, Pandora.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 7, 2009)

No, just like I'm being nice for absolutely no reason and not giving Link the Giant's Mask so that he can more literally curbstomp his opponents ^____^ Or better yet, why I'm not letting him wish upon the full Triforce for an end to this battle.
Downgraded? Think so.

EDIT: Yeah, it does increase your momentum, skiboy, but when your sword's sharp enough to get through a building, you don't need momentum. It's a useless boost; you'll cut whether you hit or not. Twirling like a fucking ballerina just makes you more predictable, so you WON'T hit.

The multiple enemies bit would be all fine and dandy if that's what this situation called for. But Link and Dante aren't gonna be so close as to fall into Sora's twirling range together. Sora needs to focus on one, maybe two targets at a time here. Spinning just makes him easier.


----------



## ChidoriCurrent (Jan 7, 2009)

Referee said:


> No, just like I'm being nice for absolutely no reason and not giving Link the Giant's Mask so that he can more literally curbstomp his opponents ^____^ Or better yet, why I'm not letting him wish upon the full Triforce for an end to this battle.
> Downgraded? Think so.



Too bad Link can't use the full triforce because Ganondorf would never agree to help Link . Your fanboyism is amazing. There really isn't any point for us to argue in this thread anymore because your just gonna keep whoring out Link. Zomg he go wolf forming and kill Sora blah blah blah. I guess we should all just give up and Say Link wins even though Dante and Sora would kill him before he even makes a thought.


----------



## Sasaki Kojirō (Jan 7, 2009)

You clearly grab it at the end of Link to the Past...and then wish away an entire world.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 7, 2009)

No, what you should do is stop making a straw man of all my arguments and actually disprove the real thing >_____> If you've ever played Wind Waker, you'll know that when all three Triforce-bearers meet up in one place, their pieces will join together. So what if Link met up with them before this battle? All he has to do is go there and wish on it. That'd be just as fair as letting Sora go Final Form.

Don't misrepresent me. It just makes you look like a bad debater; you can't beat what I'm really arguing, so you make a mockery of that and beat it down, instead. Niiice.


----------



## Novalis (Jan 7, 2009)

If I'm not mistaken, Link couldn't even hurt Dante with his "Master Sword". 

Well, you claimed that it would cause him pain and all because he is a "demon". However, isn't Dante able to use holy water or something like that? And that only does harm to the demons around him. So, doesn't that basically mean that Dante isn't >truly< evil at all ? 

Anyways, what are you trying to prove? You avered that you like Link much better than Sora & Dante. But nevertheless you are objective and credible? Sorry, but I very much doubt that is even possible. In my opinion, your posts are a tad too biased to make believe that you are reliable. And hey, I don't wanna criticize you. Really! It's JUST a well-known truth that you always tend to be more biased than you actually are when it comes to your 'favourite characters'. Everybody is like that. 

Honestly! Just stop characterising yourself as neutral because that's kinda annoying!


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 7, 2009)

When in Rome do as the Romans do.


----------



## Vault (Jan 7, 2009)

Novalis said:


> If I'm not mistaken, Link couldn't even hurt Dante with his "Master Sword".
> 
> Well, you claimed that it would cause him pain and all because he is a "demon". However, isn't Dante able to use holy water or something like that? And that only does harm to the demons around him. So, doesn't that basically mean that Dante isn't >truly< evil at all ?
> 
> ...



exactly the same thing i have been saying this whole time 

[/thread]


----------



## Densoro (Jan 7, 2009)

We've been through the holy water thing. He's never had holy stuff on the inside of his face. Such as the Master Sword after the Parry Attack that he hit Ganondorf with. And failing Holy, there's always Light, which he got from the Twilight Realm Sols.

With how much people like Dante and Sora, if we're gonna completely discount somebody's arguments because we believe they may be biased, then this thread has no point being here. You've got people arguing that Dante wins for being stylish, for God's sake >___>
And how much I like them has nothing to do with the actual debate. Maybe I'll throw a few more jokes around, but when it comes down to who would win, I actually analyze their fighting styles. I have experience with this; I've been trained fully in fencing, and I have a little experience in other styles, as well. I know how to watch an opponent for a weakness, and if I watch Dante or Sora with a mind to their weaknesses, I find several. They're glaring; maybe you need to be trained in a martial art in order to see it, since you've got so many people saying "dante haz inkredibl skeelz" when that's obviously not the case. I dunno.

Emotionally, yes, I'm biased. Link's much more of a badass than the other two could ever hope to be. But that's where the bias ends.


----------



## Novalis (Jan 7, 2009)

Yeah, this thread is >>stupid<<. I completely agree with you. 
So, why not just stop posting? 
That would be a pretty good approach. Don't you think? 



> Emotionally, yes, I'm biased. Link's much more of a badass than the other two could ever hope to be. But that's where the bias ends.



Link has even less personality than Kratos. 
That's quite an achievement ; 

JUST FOR THE LULZ 

When does Link actually say something ? I can't recall that 'o'


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 7, 2009)

Well excuuuuuuuuuse me, princess! *feels dirty for referencing the cartoon*


----------



## Densoro (Jan 7, 2009)

If I stop posting, people will accuse me of taking the easy way out. Like Enclave ^____^ Though I AM getting tired of this. It's obvious that none of us will change anybody's mind; all of us seem to see something special in a given character that nobody else's got. The Sora fanboys are missing why Dante could win, the Dante club can't see Link winning, etc.

He never says anything. His lack of silly one-liners is part of what makes him cool. He has to express himself purely through action, and he's actually very good at it. Plus, he's a bishie who fights like a bishie and can still own people's asses. As well as a generally nice guy ^_____^


----------



## Vault (Jan 7, 2009)

^^

You are juust fanboying 

Link is a non-factor here get over it


----------



## Densoro (Jan 7, 2009)

Jee, fanboying in a debate about a character's personality? I never woulda thunk.


----------



## Novalis (Jan 7, 2009)

Referee said:
			
		

> If I stop posting, people will accuse me of taking the easy way out. Like Enclave ^____^



Why is that so important ? THIS is JUST the internet ; 
For example, your sleep is much more important than this thread. Lol. 
Now, why should you waste your time on this thread? I don't understand that. 



			
				Referee said:
			
		

> Though I AM getting tired of this. It's obvious that none of us will change anybody's mind; all of us seem to see something special in a given character that nobody else's got. The Sora fanboys are missing why Dante could win, the Dante club can't see Link winning, etc.



Everybody is entitled to his;her OWN opinion & that is why such threads are "actually" worthwhile. Or would you like everyone to be with you? How boring! 

Whatever you decide to do, JUST don't take this FORUM so enormously serious.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 7, 2009)

*shrug* It's not SO serious, I'd just rather not get a reputation that makes everybody completely ignore everything I say. Otherwise, why be here? If every thread will carry on identically whether I post or not?

I don't want everyone to be me; I agree, that would be boring as hell. But I want to see something that proves to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that these two have the sheer skill to beat down the _fortress_ that is EG Link.
But they're too busy calling me an idiot ^___^


----------



## Vault (Jan 7, 2009)

Ono and referee are ridiculous similar  

somthing is fishy


----------



## Densoro (Jan 7, 2009)

No worries, Portia, I'm not an Ono alt. I just get about as sarcastic as he is when people try calling me an idiot because they can't disprove my point. Puts me on the defensive or something *shrug*
No, see, if everybody would stop being so damn condescending, I'd be a lot nicer =D

...Yeah. If we're talking about alt personalities, I think this thread is about done. Later, people.


----------



## Novalis (Jan 7, 2009)

Referee said:
			
		

> *shrug* It's not SO serious, I'd just rather not get a reputation that makes everybody completely ignore everything I say. Otherwise, why be here? If every thread will carry on identically whether I post or not?
> 
> I don't want everyone to be me; I agree, that would be boring as hell. But I want to see something that proves to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that these two have the sheer skill to beat down the fortress that is EG Link.
> But they're too busy calling me an idiot ^___^



Most people just dissent FROM YOU. Lol. 
Whether you like it or not, you have to accept that :'/ 

Anyway! Bye-bye!


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 7, 2009)

Referee said:


> Actually, Chidori, Link gains the ability to go Wolf form anytime he wants. Shows how much you know about Zelda ^________^
> I'm not downgrading Sora or Dante. They've done enough to themselves, I'm just taking advantage of it. When you spin around in a sword duel, that's like saying "Hey, I don't wanna live! Could you please scratch my back with your sword? Righto, thanks ^____x" Their styles are practically BASED on spinning around. Because I guess it looks cooler.



Fist of all as you know one of Links most powerful attacks involves spinning around.  When you can live through being impaled by multiple swords your fighting style tends to focus more on offense than defense.  Like I said if you go by game mechanics then Dante could jump over Link and then attack him much like Ganon is able to in the last fight of Twilight Princess.  

No one is ignoring what you say but what your saying is pure ridiculous.  Your not disproving anything that anyone else is saying either, your just making the assertion that your right and being persecuted somehow.  I've never gotten the impression from any Zelda game that Link is just some hardcore bad ass "fortress", just a good kid whose heart is in the right place and gets some pretty useful items.  I've also never gotten the impression that Link could ever fight on par with an enemy with any significant feats.  

Also as far as personality then I would say I would agree that you prove yourself through actions.  As stated in DMC4 Dante is as strong as he is because of his will to protect others, you don't get much more noble than that.  

You feel that you have some kind of insight because you have been trained fully in fencing but that does not apply here.  Your not better than everyone else because you think that you have some insight on fighting styles, I know fully trained martial artist who have been creamed fighting guys who were totally untrained.  No matter what you say about Link, Dante overpowers and outclasses him period.

I'll go even further to say that you as well as anyone else would rather fight Link in a duel because he would be more predictable, where as Dante or Kratos are very unpredictable and very very dangerous because of that fact.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 7, 2009)

=/ This is me not having the willpower to refuse a challenge even after I've said I'm leaving DX

About Link having a spin attack, it's alright when you can spin so fast that you do two full rotations in a second. Nobody will have your back. But I've seen the others use no such technique.
And unless my eyes are going bad, Ganon didn't attack Link when he jump over him. Might watch it again. But either way, Link's blocked attacks from above before. He's fought hordes of evil birds and bats and stuff. 

I am disproving things. "Dante can't be hurt." "Link's sword is enchanted to hurt Dark and/or Evil beings. Dante's one of those."
"Yamato's dimension-cut cuts Link into salami." "Not if Link reflects it, it doesn't."
"Dante shoots Link in the head." "Fat lot of good that'll do when all attacks do 1/16 damage to him."
As opposed to the lack of disproving seen here. "If a Shadow can hurt Sora, so can Link =/..." "But Link's STR stat isn't high enough!" "But he's stronger than a Shadow." "Fuck you, blocked!"
Also, no single game's Link is a fortress. Alone, they are all adequate. Combine all their items, though, and he's a tank. Most of the games have at least one item that greatly protects him, and how many games are there?

I agree that he's noble, and at his core, he's an alright guy. He just muddles it up by pulling every single Badass Action Hero cliche out of his ass, imo =/ Constantly catching things without looking at them, insisting on starting blaring metal on his jukebox before a fight, saying some of the one-liners he churns out...I don't find him interesting. Link, though, is the posterchild for "Polite, Skinny Kids Can Do Important Stuff, Too" Inc. =D

I didn't think I was so damn insightful or better than much of anybody else. When I made this, I actually kinda expected that people would at least agree that his fighting style sucks and that he only gets away with it because he's got a stat boost. But no, they all think he's the best thing ever to wield a sword since Cyrano de Bergerac. I don't understand why they miss the glaring holes in his style, but they do.
Also, I'm curious about this story of martial arts masters getting munched by newbs. Might I hear some specifics?

Predictable? Yes. Readable? Not so much. Vulnerable? Not as long as he stays behind that shield.
And even then, once you've seen Kratos spin like a merry-go-round on speed, you know what to expect and how to react. "Oh, look, he's let go of his Blades of Chaos. I think he's about to spin! Yep. Maybe I should duck and shank him in the knee! =D"
Whereas Link uses fencers' thrusts in your face, scares you back with them, then all of a sudden flanks your ass and stabs you in the back. Or scares you with a shield, then does a flip over you as he cuts your head. Not as predictable as you think.


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 7, 2009)

Referee said:


> Also, I'm curious about this story of martial arts masters getting munched by newbs. Might I hear some specifics?



No I didn't say martial arts masters I'm saying people trained in martial arts.  I know plenty of instances where guys who have been training for years have gotten their asses handed to them in the streets.  They always come out with that Karate garbage and get floored lmao.



> Link, though, is the posterchild for "Polite, Skinny Kids Can Do Important Stuff, Too" Inc. =D


So this is why you defend him so avidly.  I was an athlete in middle school, high school, and college so even though I like Link I think I associate more with the cocky bastard Dante lol.



> "Dante shoots Link in the head." "Fat lot of good thatll do when all attacks do 1/16 damage to him."


1/16 of dead is dead lol I'm not sure Link is as durable as demons from Hell.



> Most of the games have at least one item that greatly protects him, and how many games are there?


Yea they greatly protect him from plants shooting Deku seeds at him.



> And even then, once you've seen Kratos spin like a merry-go-round on speed, you know what to expect and how to react. "Oh, look, he's let go of his Blades of Chaos.


Wait...wait...wait your not saying that Link could beat Kratos too are you?


----------



## Sasaki Kojirō (Jan 7, 2009)

No, no, no...you see Sora and Dante will move in repetitive patterns that Link will exploit with the item he got in their dungeon.  He'll then stun them and attack their glowing weak point.  

It's quite simple people.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 7, 2009)

Is it like three against one? Are they fighting complete muscletanks? Hell, are the guys in the street _armed?_ All of those things against some random kid who knows a little karate could be deal-breakers.
Link, though, IS a master, so nyah X3

1/16th of "through Link's head" is "through Link's skin." And since his bullets don't even blast all the way through, it may be smaller still. Even in the 1-shot-1-drop cutscenes, his bullets get caught halfway through.

They also protect him from giant tank knights who can one-hand Buster Sword-type claymores cutting his ass neatly in half, or from Dragons eating him alive (or cooking him first, if they're more civilized), being thrown off cliffs, etc etc etc.

*senses another huge-ass debate. Rawrg*
Yes, indeed I am. Screw canon. I get it, he killed Aeries. But one dev team's interpretation of Aeries probably isn't official if that's the case. They created him so that such a sucky, predictable fighter could take him out. See, Dante and Sora are okay. Kratos is just _bad_.
And before you say that he'd rip Link's arms off, consider two things. First, Link's not just gonna stand around and let that happen. Second, with all his strength-increasing items active, Link would break Kratos's first XD
Besides that, Kratos starts twirling like a helicopter overhead, Link calmly stands under him and shoots an Ice Arrow up his loincloth. Kratos is frozen solid mid-air and crashes to pieces against the floor. GG
If you wanna pursue this, make a thread. For the love of God T____T I want this one to die already.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 7, 2009)

Kratos is an insult to all things Greek.


----------



## Sasaki Kojirō (Jan 7, 2009)

Yeah, God of War is fun but as a Greek mythology fan its plot kind of pisses me off.


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 7, 2009)

Referee said:


> Is it like three against one? Are they fighting complete muscletanks? Hell, are the guys in the street _armed?_ All of those things against some random kid who knows a little karate could be deal-breakers.



Am I the only person who knows of guys who think that they are karate kid and get beat down in the streets?  That Martial arts stuff is all good in tournaments and on TV but things can get real very quickly in the real world. 



> Link, though, IS a master, so nyah X3


What makes Link a master, how long does it take to master his fighting style in game?



> 1/16th of "through Link's head" is "through Link's skin." And since his bullets don't even blast all the way through, it may be smaller still. Even in the 1-shot-1-drop cutscenes, his bullets get caught halfway through.
> 
> They also protect him from giant tank knights who can one-hand Buster Sword-type claymores cutting his ass neatly in half, or from Dragons eating him alive (or cooking him first, if they're more civilized), being thrown off cliffs, etc etc etc.


In the manga Link doesn't get hit by those attacks because he would get cut in half or killed instantly, but there you go again misinterpreting gamplay for true durability.




> *senses another huge-ass debate. Rawrg*
> Yes, indeed I am. *Screw canon*. I get it, he killed Aeries. But one dev team's interpretation of Aeries probably isn't official if that's the case. They created him so that such a sucky, predictable fighter could take him out. See, Dante and Sora are okay. Kratos is just _bad_.


Can anyone else taste the bias?  You've gone off the deep end here.


----------



## Zaelapolopollo (Jan 7, 2009)

This thread should be closed and Sora banned from all match-ups.

Reason: he's the hero of a horrible RPG series that rapes, molests and violates two of the most awesome franchises in history. 
Jus tlook what those bastards did to Seifer...unforgivable.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 7, 2009)

It's not bias, it's the fact that the entire world that Kratos is from is messed up. If Kratos can kill the people who write his whole fucking _life_, there's a logical and tactical problem. They could have easily just written things so that Kratos tripped and stabbed himself or something, but no. For some reason, they were too _stupid_ to do that.
That's because the devs knew that Kratos couldn't win a proper battle on his merit, so they made all the Gods that he fought complete twats to make their twatty main character look decent by comparison.
For example, canon calls him a master swordsman. If sword mastery came from tying your weapon to a chain and spinning around a lot, then my little sister could attain it. He's a master by his canon's standards, but that's not saying much. That is why I say screw canon; the canon in his world is ass-backwards and inside-out.

I'm going to write a story that says the main character is the best swordsman ever, and that he will always be that way across all dimensions of reality, no matter what anybody says. He'll have one attack; he'll kick his sword at you. Easily beaten, right?
WRONG! Because canon says that he's the best swordsman forever! Always! So nobody can beat him!
Are you seeing the problem? =/


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 7, 2009)

Referee said:


> It's not bias, it's the fact that the entire world that Kratos is from is messed up. If Kratos can kill the people who write his whole fucking _life_, there's a logical and tactical problem. They could have easily just written things so that Kratos tripped and stabbed himself or something, but no. For some reason, they were too _stupid_ to do that.
> That's because the *devs knew that Kratos couldn't win a proper battle on his merit, so they made all the Gods that he fought complete twats to make their twatty main character look decent by comparison.*



Are people supposed to accept this argument man?  I mean seriously...




> For example, canon calls him a master swordsman. If sword mastery came from tying your weapon to a chain and spinning around a lot, then my little sister could attain it. He's a master by his canon's standards, but that's not saying much. That is why I say screw canon; the canon in his world is ass-backwards and inside-out.



That is his unique style of fighting.  By you logic then sword mastery is swinging a sword using 4 generic slashes  which you learned in 3 minutes.



> I'm going to write a story that says the main character is the best swordsman ever, and that he will always be that way across all dimensions of reality, no matter what anybody says. He'll have one attack; he'll kick his sword at you. Easily beaten, right?
> WRONG! Because canon says that he's the best swordsman forever! Always! So nobody can beat him!
> Are you seeing the problem? =/



And in your story also add that Ganon is a serious threat to the world and he is extremely powerful, whereas in Dante's worlds he'd be bagging groceries in Food Lion.

Your being overly dramatic.  Who ever said Link was a master swordsman? Like I asked early how long did it take him to reach that status?  I seem remember Kratos leading an army for years before he even aquired those swords but I guess in his world any guys can lead an army and be feared across the known world.

Doesn't Kratos have a rather large sword that he is extremely proficient at using also?  But I guess that's still inferior to Links mastery...


----------



## Densoro (Jan 7, 2009)

Link knows far more than four generic slices. And you may want to note that he can beat an immortal man who, between spending centuries locked in one magical prison or another and actually fighting properly once he's returned to Hyrule, has several lifetimes' worth of experience in sword combat.

In each life, mastery took Link a few days, maybe weeks. He learns some techniques from the most battle-hardened warriors of his time, and then comes to beat the pants off of all of them.
Though in the history of the Hero's Soul, which is constantly reincarnated whenever Hyrule is in danger, it's probably taken a few lifetimes. 

Anyway, Kratos's huge blade is heavy. He gets points for using it as such, but unfortunately, that means that it's easy as hell to avoid. The only reason the enemies don't is that they're idiots ^____^ But he's slower than a Darknut and has less armor. Stabbed he would be.


----------



## Shinkirou (Jan 7, 2009)

Referee said:


> Link knows far more than four generic slices. And you may want to note that he can beat an immortal man who, between spending centuries locked in one magical prison or another and actually fighting properly once he's returned to Hyrule, has several lifetimes' worth of experience in sword combat.
> 
> In each life, mastery took Link a few days, maybe weeks. He learns some techniques from the most battle-hardened warriors of his time, and then comes to beat the pants off of all of them.
> Though in the history of the Hero's Soul, which is constantly reincarnated whenever Hyrule is in danger, it's probably taken a few lifetimes.
> ...



Beating an immortal doesn't mean much unless that immortal is impressive. Not being able to die just means that you'll live no matter how bad you get your ass kicked, it doesn't guarantee power. As for these lifetimes of combat experience, sorry to say, but hes not shown anything that impressive. 

Neither Link, nor the bosses in his games are that impressive (on the whole, their may be one or two though). Link, without his magical equipment isn't even peak human. I dont recall him ever using any exceptional feats of strength, speed, or skill in any of the games hes played without the use of magical items, and I know for a fact that even peak humans aren't likely to be able to pull out any sort of magical toy before they get sliced in half by Sora. 

I'm not even going to get started on Kratos.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 7, 2009)

Tossing a man twice his size and made of rock (and rather fat) several feet through the air isn't an unarmed strength feat? What about landing from the top of a creepily high prison tower after being tossed out by Ganondorf and...you know, not having his skull shatter?
And whether you like the items or not, they're there. And some very important ones (Heart Barrier, Blue Bracelet, Red Ring) equip upon being found. Those combined cut damage down to 1/16th of normal. 1/16th of 'in half' is a flesh wound.

Lemme guess, you, too, were planning to go on and on about how Kratos killed Gods who were too stupid to write his destiny so that he died? And that the God of War himself couldn't instantly recognize Kratos' techniques and how best to deal with them, despite having watched combat since its dawn?


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 7, 2009)

Link is actually FTL but the game slows down the camera so the players can see it. The passage of time is also dramatically faster in the LoZverse and it is also slowed so the players can see it.


----------



## Supertails (Jan 7, 2009)

I love how so many people are arguing "WEL LAWL U C U KINT SEA SAURAS AMAYZING ATAX CUZ DERE GAYMPLAI SO HE WINS"

We're debating this based on gameplay, people.  =3


----------



## Enclave (Jan 7, 2009)

Supertails said:


> I love how so many people are arguing "WEL LAWL U C U KINT SEA SAURAS AMAYZING ATAX CUZ DERE GAYMPLAI SO HE WINS"
> 
> We're debating this based on gameplay, people.  =3



Even based on gameplay Link is screwed.

He starts to use one of his items only to get hit by a lightning bolt cast by Sora.  While Link stumbles back Sora quick dashes or fast glides towards Link and starts up a combo of about lets go with 5 regular attacks (he can certainly do more if you have him equiped to do more) and then follows it up with his explosion which hits 4 times for enhanced damage.  Then Link is flying back and if he's somehow still alive Sora just does it again.  Maybe after the first combo Sora will cast Magnega for some laughs instead of just following up for the attack again.

Even from a pure gameplay Sora wins.  Link always pulls out his items and then uses them giving Sora and Dante both ample time to attack.  Sora using his magic and Dante with his guns.  Both Sora and Dante can basically use their magic and guns without delay while Link there is time spent getting what you want to use.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 7, 2009)

Oh hey, look, it's the guy that I can't argue with. Aw well. For the sake of all the smart people in this thread, couple of problems with that. Magic Cape activates instantly. No more digging around in pockets for it, it just appears on him. So much for the blitz plan ^_____^
See the difference gameplay rules make?


----------



## Supertails (Jan 7, 2009)

You apparently have not played a Zelda game, Enclave.  It takes Link, like, a fraction of a fraction of a second to equip an item.  Less time than it takes Sora to cast Lightning.  O_o

Or, according to Ref, since you're too afraid of him to debate with him:

"Oh hey, look, it's the guy that I can't argue with. Aw well. For the sake of all the smart people in this thread, couple of problems with that. Magic Cape activates instantly. No more digging around in pockets for it, it just appears on him. So much for the blitz plan ^_____^
See the difference gameplay rules make?"


----------



## Enclave (Jan 7, 2009)

Supertails said:


> You apparently have not played a Zelda game, Enclave.  It takes Link, like, a fraction of a fraction of a second to equip an item.  Less time than it takes Sora to cast Lightning.  O_o
> 
> Or, according to Ref, since you're too afraid of him to debate with him:
> 
> ...



No, I've played just about every Zelda game.  I'm a huge fan of the series (it's a far far far better series than Kingdom Hearts and DMC in my opinion).  See, the thing is, you are going off of how fast he uses items that he already has equipped.  I'm basing it off of how long it takes for the player to go in and equip his abilities in addition to how long it takes to actually use equiped abilities.

Dante though, one button and he shoots his gun.  Sora, even if you don't have a spell equipped in your quick slot you can get to the menu to cast your spells in far less time than it takes to get to and sort through Link's menu to equip things.  You wanted to play it strictly by gameplay didn't you?  Well the menu system of a game is very much a gameplay issue.

Also, in reference to your thoughts on my thoughts on ref, I'm not afraid to debate him.  I'm just don't enjoy somebody who clearly has insane bias and refuses to actually listen to any opinion other than his own.  I can tell you, my ignore list is very small.  It takes a fair bit of annoying me to get put on it.  Now, lets not talk about him anymore.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 7, 2009)

That's why you have the Cape already set on Link's quick-items, which I believe could hold 4 at a time in TP. <, V, and > on the D-pad, plus B (the trigger). And for passive items like that and the Iron Boots, you don't even have to equip it to B. Just hit the D-pad.

So Link prods left on the D-pad and there we are. Caped. Intangible even to light waves. Then he presses B. Chateau Romani. It'll last for three days.
Interesting thing to think about: CR's 3-day limit is forced on it by the 3-day limit of its native game, Majora's Mask. What happens without the moon destroying the planet? Is it still limited?
I won't base any arguments off that speculation, but it's worth considering.

...*remembers that Enclave won't be seeing this, posts it anyway*


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 7, 2009)

Time stops when you access the menu.


----------



## Supertails (Jan 7, 2009)

I really doubt you blocked Ref because of some bias.  He's about as biased towards Link as you are to Sora, which could be more or less in his favor.  You decide.

But Ref said what I was gonna say, so you can be ignorant and pretend you're winning by ignoring someone who consistently puts out good arguments, or man up and actually debate against him rather than making yourself look you're terrified of some "biased fanboy".


----------



## Densoro (Jan 7, 2009)

e___e Supes, if you keep this up, they're gonna accuse me of being an alt again.
But seriously. If Sora has all his magic in his quick menu, why shouldn't Link have his best items?


----------



## Enclave (Jan 7, 2009)

Onomatopoeia said:


> Time stops when you access the menu.



Now I'll admit that's a valid response.  Still don't see how it'll affect anything though.

You get out of the menu and get blasted by a lightning spell.  Sure Link may be able to in that time throw on his invisiblity cape but that lightning is an area effect spell, him being invisible won't stop anything.  Not to mention there's a nice very clear shadow where Link is when he's invisible so it's not like they would suddenly lose track of him.

Really, there's so much wrong with thinking Link stands a chance.  Hell, even if you let him start off with 15 days of being invincible (which isn't true, falls can still hurt him so all Sora or Dante need to do is toss him off a cliff or fly up high and drop him) he's still going to lose even from a pure gameplay perspective.

See both Sora and Dante have faster movement abilities that Link lacks, they both have far superior mobility on both the ground and are infinitely superior in the air (Hell, Sora can FLY, yes FLY.  There are multiple gameplay instances where you are controlling a Sora who can fly).

No matter what you pull with Link both Sora and Dante have ways to easily counter or deal with it and in the absolutely worst case scenario for Sora and Dante is that Link delays them for 15 days before they can kill him.

Sora and Dante both have just far more gameplay abilities, mobility and faster speed gameplay.  Link is just completely outclassed.



Supertails said:


> I really doubt you blocked Ref because of some bias.  He's about as biased towards Link as you are to Sora, which could be more or less in his favor.  You decide.
> 
> But Ref said what I was gonna say, so you can be ignorant and pretend you're winning by ignoring someone who consistently puts out good arguments, or man up and actually debate against him rather than making yourself look you're terrified of some "biased fanboy".



It's very hard to be biased against a character when you actually like the character you are supposedly being biased against more than his competition.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 7, 2009)

Push him off a cliff? All fine and dandy except he's infuckingtangibe. You push, you go right through, he shanks you. And again, Link shouldn't have to deal with the menu unless Sora does, too. If Link's item slots are bare, so are Sora's spell slots. If Sora's aren't, neither are Link's.
Mein Gott...

Oh, and fun fact: if Link, with his little shadow, stands in the shadows, how are they gonna see him? They won't ^^ And if Link plays the Sun's Song to make it night, there'll be shadows EVERYWHERE! =D


----------



## Supertails (Jan 7, 2009)

I just can't put how much I love the fact that you consistently overlook facts repeated more times than "Yeah" in that Usher song into words.

Let me try to put this into simple words for you.  Hell, I'll even make them a bit bigger, in case it's an eye problem you're having.  *WHEN LINK WEARS THE CAPE.  HE IS INVISIBLE.  INVINCIBLE.  AND INTANGIBLE.  THAT MEANS YOU CANNOT TOUCH HIM.  THINGS GO THROUGH HIM.  LIKE A GHOST.  EVER HEAR OF CASPER?  LIKE HIM.*

Did that help at all?  Tell me how the hell you're gonna push someone off a cliff when you can't even *touch* them.  No, really, please tell me.  I seriously want to know.

And I think Ref already clarified a while ago that there was no shadow of Link when he was invisible.

Also, I was saying that Ref is playing this as biased as you are.  Since you say you aren't playing this by bias, neither is he.  Not that hard.  ^__^

EDIT:  Well now that Ref's clarified that it does leave a shadow, that leaves me in a sticky situation.  OH WAIT NO IT DOESN'T.  =D  Change day to night.  Problem solved.  =3


----------



## Enclave (Jan 7, 2009)

Supertails said:


> *WHEN LINK WEARS THE CAPE.  HE IS INVISIBLE.  INVINCIBLE.  AND INTANGIBLE.  THAT MEANS YOU CANNOT TOUCH HIM.  THINGS GO THROUGH HIM.  LIKE A GHOST.  EVER HEAR OF CASPER?  LIKE HIM.*



Bull.  Play Link to the Past again.  He puts on the cape and things can still affect him.  I know for a fact I've taken damage from spikes while invisible in that game.

Also, besides if I'm remembering incorrectly.  How exactly will it help him?  So he's invisible for 15 days instead of visible but invincible?  It's not like he can attack while invisible and even if he could attack while invisible it's still obvious where he actually is.  So again, it just delays the inevitable.

Just tell me this.  How can Link realistically put down Sora or Dante using just gameplay mechancs?  I've seen plenty of ways for him to potentially delay his death.  However delaying death doesn't really mean much, does it.

edit:

It's also worth noting that Sora has hit many things that should be intangible with his Keyblade.  Things like fire and magic in general.  Link may well be able to be hit thanks to the magical aspect to the Keyblade itself.


----------



## Supertails (Jan 7, 2009)

How very convenient that when I look it up, first result is from a walkthrough on a site completely dedicated to Zelda that says:  "A good idea is to use the Magic Cape here so you do not get hurt by the spikes."

He can attack while invisible.  I'm not sure whether to believe you've played Link to the Past or not.  Only reason he couldn't use more than the sword was because only one item could be equipped at any given time in LttP.  But that's not the case in TP, so he can very well use all his other equipment.

How can he take them down with all this?  My God, have you been paying attention AT ALL the last, what, 22 pages?

Also, since when is fire intangible?  I remember being burned by fire before.  >__>


----------



## Enclave (Jan 7, 2009)

Supertails said:


> How very convenient that when I look it up, first result is from a walkthrough on a site completely dedicated to Zelda that says:  "A good idea is to use the Magic Cape here so you do not get hurt by the spikes."



If you would recall I did point out that my memory could be wrong on that.  I was likely mixing up getting hurt by spikes with using it to get over spikes.



> He can attack while invisible.  I'm not sure whether to believe you've played Link to the Past or not.  Only reason he couldn't use more than the sword was because only one item could be equipped at any given time in LttP.  But that's not the case in TP, so he can very well use all his other equipment.



I'd never bothered trying to be honest.  Doesn't change though, what's he going to use to damage Sora?  He could keep spamming Bombos I suppose, however Sora could take multiple blasts of that and still be able to repeatedly heal himself up.  He could throw his boomerang which I really don't see how that is the least bit difficult for Sora to dodge.  He could shoot his ice rod at Sora which again ridiculously easy to dodge and even if he gets hit by it it isn't like Sora hasn't taken far stronger ice attacks before.

Sure he could TRY attacking Sora with his sword while invisible (if he can do that which like I said, I never tried to do), however it's pretty obvious where Link is when he's invisible.  He has a shadow beneath him if you recall.

Come on, how is Link going to take him out?  How?  Also as I recall in TP while he can put multiple items into his quick slot, can't he only use one item at a time?  So say you decided to make him invisible but wanted to use that hookshot, well you'd have to switch from using the cape to the hookshot wouldn't you?



> How can he take them down with all this?  My God, have you been paying attention AT ALL the last, what, 22 pages?



What does Link have that will take out Sora.  Come on, if it's been said so many times throughout this topic then obviously you can give me a realistic scenario as to how it will be pulled off.



> Also, since when is fire intangible?  I remember being burned by fire before.  >__>



Yea, don't take your physics lessons from Naruto.  Objects can pass through fire without effort and yet somehow Sora seems capable of deflecting it with the Keyblade.


----------



## Supertails (Jan 7, 2009)

*"If you would recall I did point out that my memory could be wrong on that. I was likely mixing up getting hurt by spikes with using it to get over spikes."*

I know.  I was just saying that it was convenient that the first result was the exact answer I needed.  >.>


*"Sure he could TRY attacking Sora with his sword while invisible (if he can do that which like I said, I never tried to do), however it's pretty obvious where Link is when he's invisible. He has a shadow beneath him if you recall."*

This is why you need to start paying attention.  Both me and Ref have already established that Link could turn it from day to night, thus eliminating the shadow problem.


*"Also as I recall in TP while he can put multiple items into his quick slot, can't he only use one item at a time? So say you decided to make him invisible but wanted to use that hookshot, well you'd have to switch from using the cape to the hookshot wouldn't you?"*

Passive items are used without having to switch back and forth.  Hell, if you wanted, you could walk up to someone in your iron boots and hand them a letter while shooting at crows.  All with your lantern on.


*"What does Link have that will take out Sora. Come on, if it's been said so many times throughout this topic then obviously you can give me a realistic scenario as to how it will be pulled off."*

*sigh*  Since you're apparently too fucking lazy to go back and look, I'll go round up the million and a half things Ref has already said that you guys somehow conveniently manage to look over repeatedly.  I'm starting to wonder if you all have five-fucking second attention spans.  >__>  

So gimme 'til next post to give you these scenarios, which you'll no doubt shoot down with another seven hundred pounds of total bullshit without even reading the damn scenarios in the first place.


*"Yea, don't take your physics lessons from Naruto. Objects can pass through fire without effort and yet somehow Sora seems capable of deflecting it with the Keyblade."*

Intangible:  not tangible; incapable of being perceived by the sense of touch, as incorporeal or immaterial things; impalpable.

Last I checked, I can sure as hell percieve fire by the sense of touch.


Jeez, if Zelda is your favorite series, I wonder how much of Kingdom Hearts and Devil May Cry you've screwed up.  >__>;;


----------



## Densoro (Jan 7, 2009)

If you'd unblock me already, you'd get a quick answer to all of that >___>

A) Being frozen isn't the same as being hit with ice. Me throwing an ice cube at you wouldn't freeze you.
B) About the shadow. Turn day to night, blend in with the shadows. Problem solved. His shadow won't stand out from the others.
C) Down, left, and right on the D-pad take care of passive items like the Magic Cape, Lantern, Iron Boots, and letters to people. Only active items like a Bow, Clawshot, etc, need to be assigned to B to work. So no, you wouldn't have to switch.
D) A take-out plan? Fine. Clone with Four Sword, have them all infinity-cloak, pull out Ball n Chains, surround him, start circling weapons over their heads simultaneously. Then to finish his damn Second Chance/Wind (whichever it was), chuck the B&Cs at him. That's a different attack.
E) Hitting something that readily contacts the environment =/= hitting a ghoster.

EDIT: Blarg, ninja'd =/


----------



## Supertails (Jan 7, 2009)

Oh, screw my looking up all the explanations, let's just go with what Ref said there.  ^^


----------



## Enclave (Jan 7, 2009)

Supertails said:


> This is why you need to start paying attention.  Both me and Ref have already established that Link could turn it from day to night, thus eliminating the shadow problem.



Unless Link can make it a moonless night he's not going to eliminate that shadow.  I cannot think of a single item Link has that can cause that.  Meanwhile Sora has plenty of ways to generate light which would force shadows to be present even in darkness.



> Passive items are used without having to switch back and forth.  Hell, if you wanted, you could walk up to someone in your iron boots and hand them a letter while shooting at crows.  All with your lantern on.



I'll confirm this when I get home.  Haven't played TP since it's release on the Wii.



> *sigh*  Since you're apparently too fucking lazy to go back and look, I'll go round up the million and a half things Ref has already said that you guys somehow conveniently manage to look over repeatedly.  I'm starting to wonder if you all have five-fucking second attention spans.  >__>
> 
> So gimme 'til next post to give you these scenarios, which you'll no doubt shoot down with another seven hundred pounds of total bullshit without even reading the damn scenarios in the first place.



You aren't ref thus I can assure you I will read your whole post.



> Intangible:  not tangible; incapable of being perceived by the sense of touch, as incorporeal or immaterial things; impalpable.
> 
> Last I checked, I can sure as hell percieve fire by the sense of touch.



Actually no, you cannot percieve fire by the sense of touch, you perceive it via the ability to sense the heat it produces.  For instance, light is intangible, however if somebody shoots an adequately powerful laser at you then you will feel it because it'll be burning you.  Doesn't stop the light though from being intangible.  You could still pass your hand through it, just your hand will get burned.  Just as you cannot grab light you cannot grab fire (though admittedly fire and light are both completely different, light is composed of photons and fire is a chemical reaction that has some plasma within it).



> Jeez, if Zelda is your favorite series, I wonder how much of Kingdom Hearts and Devil May Cry you've screwed up.  >__>;;



There's a lot less from Kingdom Hearts that you have to remember.  There are only 3 games in the series thus far and really the only one that needs mentioning in this topic is Kingdom Hearts 2.  It's a very very very simple game.

Also, Zelda isn't my favorite series.  I just far prefer it over Kingdom Hearts and DMC.  Also I'm no expert on DMC, I've played the first one and some of the 4th one.  However I've seen more than enough in it to know that there isn't a whole lot Link could do.  Though admittedly he stands a far better shot taking out Dante than he does Sora.  Sora has way too many ways to heal himself up if he somehow takes any damage.

edit:

Then tell me what Ref said there if it would work so well.


----------



## Supertails (Jan 7, 2009)

*"Unless Link can make it a moonless night he's not going to eliminate that shadow. I cannot think of a single item Link has that can cause that. Meanwhile Sora has plenty of ways to generate light which would force shadows to be present even in darkness."*

Well, I'm sure there's the off-chance that the night he makes just happens to be moonless.  Even so, I really doubt Dante's gonna use all this time for a lunch break.  If you think Dante stands more of a chance against Sora than Link, then Sora would have his hands full with him while Link is doing all this.  I really don't think Sora could battle Dante head-on _while_ watching out for Link's shadow which, in the night still would be *heaps* harder to see.


*"Actually no, you cannot percieve fire by the sense of touch, you perceive it via the ability to sense the heat it produces. For instance, light is intangible, however if somebody shoots an adequately powerful laser at you then you will feel it because it'll be burning you. Doesn't stop the light though from being intangible. You could still pass your hand through it, just your hand will get burned. Just as you cannot grab light you cannot grab fire (though admittedly fire and light are both completely different, light is composed of photons and fire is a chemical reaction that has some plasma within it)."*

Well, I'm no physics guy, so how about I give you that one?  xD

One question, though.  How the hell do we percieve hot and cold if not by the sense of touch?  I know for sure it's not by hearing or sight.  Don't think it's by taste.  Pretty sure it's not by smell.  Unless I'm Haley Joel Osment, I'm fairly sure there's only one sense left.

Though still, he can block fire, yes.  But I'm sure if he attacked fire, his blade would go harmlessly through it.  Just like I'm sure he could block Link's attacks *if* he somehow saw them coming and prepared himself, but the point of the magic cape is that things pass straight through Link when Link is attacked.


*"Then tell me what Ref said there if it would work so well."*

You know, if you'd just unblock him and actually read what he says, I could see myself as arguing with an intelligent debater rather than a whiny child who's mad because he's scared of the big bad bully for bruising his delicate ego.  Really, you're acting like a kid.  "La-la-la-la, I can't hear you.  Hm?  Did he say something, Supes?  I can't hear him.  La-la-la."

But anyways, since you seem to be so bent on keeping up your snotty six-year old image, I'll tell you what he said:

*"A take-out plan? Fine. Clone with Four Sword, have them all infinity-cloak, pull out Ball n Chains, surround him, start circling weapons over their heads simultaneously. Then to finish his damn Second Chance/Wind (whichever it was), chuck the B&Cs at him. That's a different attack."*


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 7, 2009)

> Not to mention there's a nice very clear shadow where Link is when he's invisible so it's not like they would suddenly lose track of him.



If you really believe that you don't understand the mechanics of invisibility that well.



> Hell, Sora can FLY, yes FLY. There are multiple gameplay instances where you are controlling a Sora who can fly



To my knowledge, Sora lacks actual independant flight, requiring outside assistance. Though I suppose since he can summon Tinkerbell....




> Sora has way too many ways to heal himself up if he somehow takes any damage.



Curaga. Potions. Maybe Tinkerbell if I recall correctly........that's all.

Way too many indeed. 

------

And for the record,  such things as fire and light are not intangible. 

What they are is incorporeal. Or possibly immaterial. But certainly not intangible.

Where "intangible" means "incapable of being perceived by the senses".

The ability to perceive temperatures in general is a product of the sense of touch. 

You can not touch fire any more than you can touch light, but if either are sufficiently powerful enough, then yes, you will be burned if you come into contact with them. This does not mean that they operate in such a manner for you to be incapable of perceiving them with the sense of touch.

You can't touch air. Air is immaterial. Does this mean that it relies on some sense other than touch for your body to process it?


----------



## Stroev (Jan 7, 2009)

After reading the last fffffucking 44 pages, I've come to a conclusion:

Link attempts to delay his demise. Also attacks from afar, and heals when necesary. 

Magenaga? Link tosses his weapons. Meet wooden sword. Or Link equips the Giant's mask and turns invisible. Sora is flattened. Or stabed with a wooden sword. Reaction commands won't save him from something that size.

Or eventually Sora runs out of MP. And megalixirs. 

And we also have CD-i Zelda, too. Which is canon, since Nintendo let Philips have the rights to the characters. 

Dante also loses bloodlust and teams up with Link to take down Sora due to fanwank. You say you're only stating the facts? That's what some said about Poke'mon wank as well.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 7, 2009)

> After reading the last fffffucking 44 pages



22 pages.


----------



## Sephiroth (Jan 7, 2009)

Dante and Sora destroy Link with ease, and Sora wins over Dante.

He is to dam powerful.


----------



## Stroev (Jan 7, 2009)

Onomatopoeia said:


> 22 pages.


You say tomatoe, I say tomato.

And I like to believe the rest of my post shows that Sora loses, seeing how you aren't replying.


----------



## Supertails (Jan 7, 2009)

Ono's on our side, I believe.  xP


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 7, 2009)

Within reason.


----------



## killfox (Jan 7, 2009)

This shit is fuckin sad. Sora wins for obvious reasons, and if they arent obvious, read the last 21 pages.


----------



## Supertails (Jan 7, 2009)

I can say the exact same for Link.  >__>


----------



## Densoro (Jan 7, 2009)

Killfox, lemme ask you something. Are these 'obvious reasons' related more to cutscenes or gameplay? Because if they're cutscenes, then there's a rule disregarding them in the first post. Gameplay stats only, it says.


----------



## killfox (Jan 7, 2009)

Supertails said:


> I can say the exact same for Link.  >__>


Who the hell are you?


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 7, 2009)

He's Supertails. Super Sonic's sidekick. One assumes anyway.


----------



## killfox (Jan 7, 2009)

Referee said:


> Killfox, lemme ask you something. Are these 'obvious reasons' related more to cutscenes or gameplay? Because if they're cutscenes, then there's a rule disregarding them in the first post. Gameplay stats only, it says.


Ok your point? Sora doesnt need cutscene feats to win this fight.


----------



## Sephiroth (Jan 7, 2009)

Gameplay wise? The guy who cuts and tosses buildings, fly, and a blade that can cut anything? 

I don't remember doing anything to that degree with even Dante, and Link is the slowest attacking of the three.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 8, 2009)

Link can completely shatter massive stone pillars just by throwing them really, really hard ^_____^
Also, considering that Sora won't be up against Space bullets, that's no teleport-tennis. No Lightning? No 20-foot Reversal. They're not in space, so no building-cutter...And of course, he's alone, so no Drive forms =D
All of this being moot because Link will be invisible and impossible to hurt for 15 days straight. I'd say his work is about cut out for him =D


----------



## Sephiroth (Jan 8, 2009)

Link hides for 15 days why?


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 8, 2009)

Because by that time Sora and Dante will have starved to death and Link will be alive thanks to the power of milk?


----------



## skiboydoggy (Jan 8, 2009)

Onomatopoeia said:


> Because by that time Sora and Dante will have starved to death and Link will be alive thanks to the power of milk?


Dante is immortal. 
He sits in Pandora and shoots in every direction.


----------



## Supertails (Jan 8, 2009)

Link puts on the Magic Cape, making him invisible and untouchable, and drinks that Chateau whatever milk giving him infinite magic for three days, and seeing as he has five bottles, 15 days.  So....yeah.


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 8, 2009)

Either this thread will be closed or it will be the longest thread ever.  I have no problem accepting that Sora could win this, but Link has a snowball's chance in hell.  Referee is so biased that I think he'd be arguing even if we said that Link has to fight using no items at all except his sword while Dante has full access to all items and abilities across all DMC games.


----------



## Supertails (Jan 8, 2009)

He's biased?  Heh, *he is*?  At least he's not arguing by repeatedly ignoring points established over and over and over and over and over so many times it makes your fucking head spin.  If anything, he's the last one that can be called biased.  Unless you can refute his points right here and now, I'll just accuse you of being biased and using that as your only argument for Dante.

Hey, if you get to make idiotic claims, so do I.  =P


----------



## Schneider (Jan 8, 2009)

Supertails said:


> *Link puts on the Magic Cape*, making him invisible and untouchable, and drinks that Chateau whatever milk giving him infinite magic for three days, and seeing as he has five bottles, 15 days.  So....yeah.



Anyone whose brain still works won't even put this argument on considering Link is facing 2 guys with relativistic to FTL (at least massively hypersonic) speeds and has little to no speedfeats at all.


----------



## Supertails (Jan 8, 2009)

Do you know how long it takes Link to equip an item?  Really?  Have you played a Zelda game?  Trying to tell me that they can get to him and attack before he can *equip* the magic cape is just....wrong.  Don't forget we're going by gameplay here.  I have no reason to believe that Sora or Dante can get to him in that time based on the gameplay of the games.


----------



## skiboydoggy (Jan 8, 2009)

Dante has GUNS. He activates Pandora and fills Link full of holes with one tap of a button.


----------



## Schneider (Jan 8, 2009)

It's gameplay *stats*, meaning their feats from the game. There's no pause-equip-continue in here.

So, unless Link moves at massively hypersonic/near relativistic speeds, he gets killed right off.


----------



## Sephiroth (Jan 8, 2009)

Sora can beat down Ghost with the keyblade, I think he can hit invisible Link.


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 8, 2009)

Supertails said:


> He's biased?  Heh, *he is*?  At least he's not arguing by repeatedly ignoring points established over and over and over and over and over so many times it makes your fucking head spin.  If anything, he's the last one that can be called biased.  Unless you can refute his points right here and now, I'll just accuse you of being biased and using that as your only argument for Dante.
> 
> Hey, if you get to make idiotic claims, so do I.  =P



No he is biased and so are you.  I'd like to say that Dante would win this match, but people have given pretty good arguments for Sora and I have come to accepts that he will most likely win.  Neither you or Referee have even considered that Link could lose this match, no matter what argument anyone presents.  I know Link, I'm a zelda fan, and I have no reason to believe that he can beat Dante or Sora.  

The points that you believed are established are just "idiot claims" that you two have been making for 23 pages now.  For example in TWP Ganon can leap over Link and move fast enough to attack before he can turn with his shield.  When I suggest Dante could do the same thing, its automatically ignored.  

The thing is this, Referee already stated the he thinks DMC is a bad game.  He gas already stated that he relates to Link because he shows that skinny guys can do thing too, he has a personal bias that is reeking from this entire thread.  I like Link and Dante, therefore if anything I'm unbiased.  I like the Zelda games way more that DMC, actually TWP is the reason I even bought a fucking Wii in the first place...

How can you say I make idiot claims when Referee went as far as to say that Dante's bullets wont pierce Links skin...what in the fuck?!?!


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 8, 2009)

You're all biased. Doom Katon, you're biased. Referee, you're biased. Supertails? Biased. Me? Totally biased. Schneider? Biased. If you said you were not biased you would be lying through your teeth. Everyone is biased, that's why they come here in the first place, to debate whether their favorite characters, who they are biased for, can win a match.


Dante's bullets would have a hard time piercing Link's skin when his guns are aimed at his own head, because he wants to kill himself for sucking so much.



> Anyone whose brain still works won't even put this argument on considering Link is facing 2 guys with relativistic to FTL (at least massively hypersonic) speeds



Using gameplay stats only as is stated in the opening post, Dante and Sora are not anywhere close to sonic much less hypersonic.



> It's gameplay stats, meaning their feats from the game. There's no pause-equip-continue in here.



Gameplay stats, meaning their feats from the gameplay. Not the cutscenes. Can you prove that Dante and Sora are hypersonic, much less faster than light using only gameplay?


----------



## Schneider (Jan 8, 2009)

Onomatopoeia said:


> Using gameplay stats only as is stated in the opening post, Dante and Sora are not anywhere close to sonic much less hypersonic.



Dante can be FTL with Royal Guard (Heavily dependent on player's skill). He's at least supersonic when he handles guns from lady and manhandles his casual teleporting big bro Vergil, who himself plays bullet with his sword.

IIRC, Sora has the reaction command to block rifles from Port Royal. If that's not it, take that laser feat. 



> Gameplay stats, meaning their feats from the gameplay. Not the cutscenes. Can you prove that Dante and Sora are hypersonic, much less faster than light using only gameplay?



Dante can only be FTL with gameplay and Royal Guard, via Just Guarding lasers in front of him. Sora has that button mashing lulztennisball lasers at the final battle (which according to several people here that it's lightspeed despite having no resemblance to real lasers at all).



> Dante's bullets would have a hard time piercing Link's skin when his guns are aimed at his own head, because he wants to kill himself for sucking so much.



Yet unfortunately he can't even die when he shoot his own head. If Dante sucks, the other two are jizz on dog shit.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 8, 2009)

Can you prove these lasers are actual lasers and not just fancy beams o' doom that are called lasers?



> Yet unfortunately he can't even die when he shoot his own head.



It's loaded with magic bullets that are specifically designed to kill him and erase him from existence.



> If Dante sucks, the other two are jizz on dog shit.



Sora is cooler than Dante but he's still a loser. Link is cooler than Dante could ever hope to be.


----------



## Schneider (Jan 8, 2009)

Onomatopoeia said:


> Can you prove these lasers are actual lasers and not just fancy beams o' doom that are called lasers?



 1. It looks exactly like this.
2. Just like how lightspeed is supposed to be, it appears instantly. 
3. The lasers have more resemblance to IRL lasers than the stuff from KH will ever hope to be.



> It's loaded with magic bullets that are specifically designed to kill him and erase him from existence.



Lolwut?



> Sora is cooler than Dante but he's still a loser. Link is cooler than Dante could ever hope to be.



Until Link or Sora rides on a missile or nunchucks a motorcycle they won't be considered to have a dick.


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 8, 2009)

Sora can play tennis with himsel and the laser/bullet.
That is admitted by even those who seriously hate Sora.



> This thread should be closed and Sora banned from all match-ups.


If we do that, can we have you banned as well then, Anti-Existance or whatever you are going to call yourself?

Coming here only to complain strikes you as mature, in any way?
At least the rest of us come here to this thread to argue about this instead of sniping at a side that we don't like.

@Schneider
Is riding on a skyscraper a decently cool feat then?
Especially one you and your friend cut up?

How about kicking it instead?


----------



## Schneider (Jan 8, 2009)

Ax_ said:


> @Schneider
> Is riding on a skyscraper a decently cool feat then?
> Especially one you and your friend cut up?
> 
> How about kicking it instead?



It ranks Sweet in DMC 3 style rank. Definitely above Link.

Wait, so with that he gains some balls.


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 8, 2009)

Onomatopoeia said:


> Sora is cooler than Dante but he's still a loser. Link is cooler than Dante could ever hope to be.



Is this opposite day, when cool is a no dick having dwarf virgin who walks around in a green tunic and elf hat?  I dunno what cool is to you but imo the badass missile riding gun wielding demon killing mother fucker who looks like he can fuck any girl he wants is possibly a tad bit cooler then Sora and Link.

Like seriously how the hell is Link cooler than Dante could ever hope to be that's like saying Einstein has nothing on George Bush.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 8, 2009)

Link is inherently cooler than Dante. Not because of anything he's done or said, but just because he is. 

Why is there no oxygen in space? Because that's the way it is.
Why is the sky blue? Or the grass green? Because that's just the way it is.
Why is Link superior to Dante? Because that's just the way things are.

Dante's got some pretty cool stunts, but in order for such a stunt to be viewed favorably, you'd have to have an excuse to have pulled it off rather than just doing it because the game designers thought it would be cool if Dante rode a missile.

As for whether Dante "can fuck any girl he wants". You forgot to add "As long as he had the money to pay her for her services."


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 8, 2009)

Onomatopoeia said:


> Link is inherently cooler than Dante. *Not because of anything he's done or said, but just because he is.
> *
> Why is there no oxygen in space? Because that's the way it is.
> Why is the sky blue? Or the grass green? Because that's just the way it is.
> ...



This is why this thread should be trashed, you and Referee have stopped using logic a long time ago.  No things are not how you say they are just because you say so,  the Earth isn't flat because you say it is.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 8, 2009)

> This is why this thread should be trashed, you and Referee have stopped using logic a long time ago.



My belief in Link's inherent superiority to Dante in terms of awesomeness has no effect on the outcome of the fight, and you will note that I have no at any point seriously said that Link will win. In fact, I've done more to argue against him than for him.

Stop being a butthurt little baby and accusing people of things they haven't done.



> No things are not how you say they are just because you say so



This is true, but that doesn't change the fact that things are that way regardless of the fact that I say they are this way.



> the Earth isn't flat because you say it is.



Never claimed the Earth was flat but ok.


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 8, 2009)

Doom Katon said:


> Like seriously how the hell is Link cooler than Dante could ever hope to be that's like saying *Einstein has nothing on George Bush*.



...
What?

Bush?
Seriously?

Get the hell out of here.

That redneck (he acts like one, or at least someone with the same IQ anyway) president shouldn't be mentioned with anything close to respect anywhere.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 8, 2009)

> The thing is this, Referee already stated the he thinks DMC is a bad game.
> How can you say I make idiot claims when Referee went as far as to say that Dante's bullets wont pierce Links skin...what in the fuck?!?!


Way to put words in my mouth. Why would I have run a DMC speed-run if I thought it was a bad game? I actually rather like the combat system. It makes beating down some demons fun.
And if you'd listen to the fucking REASON I said that, it'd make more sense. Mother. Fucking. Protection. Items. See, Dante's bullets have this lovely tendency to only go halfway through their target, rather than blasting out the back. Link has an item combo that cuts damage down to 1/16th. 1/2 of 1/16 is 1/32. What is one thirtysecond of a bullet going through Link? A FLESH WOUND.
Also, going back to some post when you said I'd eventually say screw Link's items and have him take them on barehanded, that's a complete strawman that doesn't even make _sense._ Considering all my strategies revolve around Link's items.

So how about instead of trying to make me sound like the complete sofafucking idiot that I'm not, you actually debunk my points, hm? ^___^

BTW, somebody mentioned the Return Fire Reaction Command from Port Royal. As I remember it, it's only available as you hear them cock their gun. If they've fired, it's too late.
It's not bullet-timing, it's reading the path BEFORE the gun is fired. Makes a big difference.
Also, back to 1000 Lasers, it was technically only 500, since Riku was there, too. And those 500 didn't look like what you posted a link to; they didn't go on forever. They had a defined shape. And of course, they moved at the speed of baseballs. Blocking 500 baseballs is good, but not FTL.


----------



## Agmaster (Jan 8, 2009)

Way to troll Ono.  Dante's coolest out of these three, Sora the most relatable, Link the most epic.  *But Link is only the most epic because we were mostly introduced to him before the age of 10.* 

And I'm set with that line.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Jan 8, 2009)

Is it ironic that you are trolling by falsely accusing me of trolling?

I'm asking here.

No, Dante is not the coolest. I could relate to Sora if I possessed mental functions equivalent to a lawn chair. As I do not, he is not relatable.


----------



## Rashou (Jan 8, 2009)

Why is this turning into a popularity contest now?!


----------



## ChidoriCurrent (Jan 8, 2009)

Referee said:


> No, what you should do is stop making a straw man of all my arguments and actually disprove the real thing >_____> If you've ever played Wind Waker, you'll know that when all three Triforce-bearers meet up in one place, their pieces will join together. So what if Link met up with them before this battle? All he has to do is go there and wish on it. That'd be just as fair as letting Sora go Final Form.
> 
> Don't misrepresent me. It just makes you look like a bad debater; you can't beat what I'm really arguing, so you make a mockery of that and beat it down, instead. Niiice.



Actually i can beat what your arguing your saying Link can have Zelda,Midna and Ganondorf to help him, but Sora and Dante can't have Donald,Goofy,Genie, or Vergil. Really shows how biased you are by obviously choosing Link's gameplay feats over Sora and Dante's


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 8, 2009)

> Sora is cooler than Dante but he's still a loser. Link is cooler than Dante could ever hope to be.



This is what made the thread a popularity contest.




Onomatopoeia said:


> My belief in Link's inherent superiority to Dante in terms of awesomeness has no effect on the outcome of the fight, and you will note that I have no at any point seriously said that Link will win. In fact, I've done more to argue against him than for him.



If you have been arguing against him then what the fuck are we still talking about then?  If you believe that Link would get raped then that means Referee is the only person who thinks that Link has a chance and being that he ignores all logic I'd say this debate is just about over.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 8, 2009)

Okay, considering this whole thing started from Link going Wolf form, let's take a look here: you're saying that, if Link can turn into a dog with no defensive capabilities, just some sharp teeth, then Sora should be able to transform into a telekinetic dual-wielder that really IS supersonic and has a perfect defense and offense. That totally makes sense.

Considering specifically what you said just now, Ganondorf wouldn't be helping him. Link would be harvesting a vital resource from him. His Triforce. Zelda would be lending Link hers, but only if Goofy and Donald lend Sora their Form powers and Virgil lends Dante his teleporting sword skills. Completely fair. You want outside help, let's get some outside help.
If Sora doesn't get his party members and Dante doesn't get Virgil, Link doesn't get the Triforce.

As to Midna, she's not doing any fighting. Therefore, she's more fair even than Sora's summons. Even if she WAS fighting, it'd still be fair; Midna vs Stitch. That's STILL not even; Stitch couldn't likely kill Midna, since she'd just teleport around his attacks, but unless Midna had the fused shadows, she couldn't hurt Stitch, either. Stalemate, but Team Sora would still have the offensive advantage.

Now for form-changing. Sora can try using Anti-form, and Dante's got his Devil Triggers. And you're getting pissy because I want to turn Link into a dog? For fuck's sake dude, until I whip out the Giant's Mask, you have no room to talk. I'm apparently being FAR nicer to the enemy than I should be.

EDIT: Doom Katon, I thought you had a decent brain in your head, but if you won't even LISTEN to my fucking arguments, if you'll dismiss them as nonsense, then kindly shove your dick in your mouth. You're leaking bullshit from it =/
I have provided explanations for Link's strategies. Link wouldn't block the bullets from being so motherfucking awesome, *HE'D BLOCK THEM WITH MOUNTAINS OF FUCKING PROTECTION MAGIC!* What the FUCK is so hard to understand about that?


----------



## ChidoriCurrent (Jan 8, 2009)

Referee can you ask a mod to insert a poll to see who would win please?


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 8, 2009)

Onomatopoeia said:


> Another baseless accusation. Go for the gold, Doom Katon! Go for the gold!
> 
> I never said I wasn't here to debate. In fact I think I've done a fairly good job of responding relevantly when I'm not busy responding to people like you baiting me.



....Who would win the fight Onomatopoeia?


----------



## Densoro (Jan 8, 2009)

No, because there are obviously a bizillion strats Link's got under his belt that none of you guys have bothered to think of. You guys think that he'd just charge in and try to stab Sora, then Sora would flatten his head with Graviga. None of you even so much as bother to consider his numerous protection items, let alone the ones that actually give him genuine _invulnerability_, nor the items which would allow said invulnerability to last many, _many_ times longer than it ever did in any of the games (because Link didn't have such an intricately self-supporting inventory. Items from across all the games in the series compliment each other beautifully).

tl;dr? You guys don't know how to use Link. You suck as him.


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 8, 2009)

Referee said:


> No, because there are obviously a bizillion strats Link's got under his belt that none of you guys have bothered to think of. You guys think that he'd just charge in and try to stab Sora, then Sora would flatten his head with Graviga. None of you even so much as bother to consider his numerous protection items, let alone the ones that actually give him genuine _invulnerability_, nor the items which would allow said invulnerability to last many, _many_ times longer than it ever did in any of the games (because Link didn't have such an intricately self-supporting inventory. Items from across all the games in the series compliment each other beautifully).
> 
> tl;dr? You guys don't know how to use Link. You suck as him.



So in other words you don't want a poll because it will show that you are the only person who is smart enough to realize that Link would win?  Did you make this thread believing that anyone else would agree with you?


----------



## ChidoriCurrent (Jan 8, 2009)

Referee said:


> No, because there are obviously a bizillion strats Link's got under his belt that none of you guys have bothered to think of. You guys think that he'd just charge in and try to stab Sora, then Sora would flatten his head with Graviga. None of you even so much as bother to consider his numerous protection items, let alone the ones that actually give him genuine _invulnerability_, nor the items which would allow said invulnerability to last many, _many_ times longer than it ever did in any of the games (because Link didn't have such an intricately self-supporting inventory. Items from across all the games in the series compliment each other beautifully).
> 
> tl;dr? You guys don't know how to use Link. You suck as him.



So why can't you insert a poll? Obviously with all the feats Link has everyone will vote for him.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 8, 2009)

Doom, I thought that as many would agree with me as agree on any of the other characters. And it's not that I'm smarter, it's just that you aren't used to thinking in terms of EG Link. Some imagine OoT/MM, others think of TP, others still of WW. But you aren't used to imagining what would happen if we mashed them all together, items, abilities, and all, and set loose what was created.
Which pretty well answers you, too, Chidori. They'd imagine the feats from ONE game, not all. They'd imagine WW Link hopping around like Yoda up till Dante shot him in the head, or TP Link trying to overpower Dante, only to catch Sora's Keyblade through his back and fall to the ground. That's not fair; I'm not asking people to beat those weaker Links. I'm asking them to beat one that's so completely awesome that he's never been in a game, so they have no experience in using him.

They wouldn't give him a fair amount of thought before casting their votes. They'd measure him solely based on those weaker Links and write off his true potential.


----------



## ChidoriCurrent (Jan 8, 2009)

Referee said:


> Doom, I thought that as many would agree with me as agree on any of the other characters. And it's not that I'm smarter, it's just that you aren't used to thinking in terms of EG Link. Some imagine OoT/MM, others think of TP, others still of WW. But you aren't used to imagining what would happen if we mashed them all together, items, abilities, and all, and set loose what was created.
> Which pretty well answers you, too, Chidori. They'd imagine the feats from ONE game, not all. They'd imagine WW Link hopping around like Yoda up till Dante shot him in the head, or TP Link trying to overpower Dante, only to catch Sora's Keyblade through his back and fall to the ground. That's not fair; I'm not asking people to beat those weaker Links. I'm asking them to beat one that's so completely awesome that he's never been in a game, so they have no experience in using him.
> 
> They wouldn't give him a fair amount of thought before casting their votes. They'd measure him solely based on those weaker Links and write off his true potential.



Well after reading your post and thinking it over. I honestly don't know who would win now.


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 8, 2009)

Referee said:


> Doom, I thought that as many would agree with me as agree on any of the other characters. And it's not that I'm smarter, it's just that you aren't used to thinking in terms of EG Link. Some imagine OoT/MM, others think of TP, others still of WW. But you aren't used to imagining what would happen if we mashed them all together, items, abilities, and all, and set loose what was created.
> Which pretty well answers you, too, Chidori. They'd imagine the feats from ONE game, not all. They'd imagine WW Link hopping around like Yoda up till Dante shot him in the head, or TP Link trying to overpower Dante, only to catch Sora's Keyblade through his back and fall to the ground. That's not fair; I'm not asking people to beat those weaker Links. I'm asking them to beat one that's so completely awesome that he's never been in a game, so they have no experience in using him.
> 
> They wouldn't give him a fair amount of thought before casting their votes. They'd measure him solely based on those weaker Links and write off his true potential.



I think you would have to make a comprehensive list of all the items Link would use and how they would stack in order for people to buy into it.  But discussing superior swordsmanship + mirror shield wouldn't be enough to sway anyone.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 8, 2009)

No breaking the suicide rule DX

Anyway, Doom, do you REALLY want me to post EVERY SINGLE ONE of my strats for Link, along with the equipment/magic/movesets from, what, like ten games? _Really?_
Especially since they're scattered about all over this thread, TBH =/


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 8, 2009)

Onomatopoeia said:


> Link would win on account of Sora and Dante killing themselves for sucking so much.



So you said that you never said that Link would win and yet when we ask you who would win you say that Link would win.  Now that I think about it you've given this reply earlier, which makes you a troll and a liar.  

Funny thing is your an obvious troll with this reply but your gonna say that I'm making a baseless accusation lmao.


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 8, 2009)

Referee said:


> No breaking the suicide rule DX
> 
> Anyway, Doom, do you REALLY want me to post EVERY SINGLE ONE of my strats for Link, along with the equipment/magic/movesets from, what, like ten games? _Really?_
> Especially since they're scattered about all over this thread, TBH =/



You have strats scattered all over this thread that no one buys, such as Link will shoot Dante with an ice arrow lol.  I'd like you to give a comprehensive list of this the abilities this "Fortress" will use unless you expect us to believe that he is able to equip EVERY SINGLE ITEM and use them all at the same time.  You act like you have given this much thought so give us an explaination how he will just overpower these two guys.


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 8, 2009)

Onomatopoeia said:


> No, I said I never seriously said Link would win. Key word: Seriously.



So if your not gonna give your serious opinion, yet refute everyone else in an attempt to just annoy people then YOU ARE A TROLL.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 8, 2009)

Half the reason nobody bought them is that they were thinking in terms of cutscenes. I imagine that looking back through with an eye favoring gameplay (which was the original rule, but you lot fucked that rule over pretty quick into it =D), they'd make a lot more sense. Now that we've remembered that Sora can't supersonic-blitz Link because we're going solely by the speed that you play him at, half the items that he wasn't allowed to equip are free game.


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 8, 2009)

Referee said:


> Half the reason nobody bought them is that they were thinking in terms of cutscenes. I imagine that looking back through with an eye favoring gameplay (which was the original rule, but you lot fucked that rule over pretty quick into it =D), they'd make a lot more sense. Now that we've remembered that Sora can't supersonic-blitz Link because we're going solely by the speed that you play him at, half the items that he wasn't allowed to equip are free game.



Your not still telling me this all mighty strat, with specific item names and how he will use them to beat to physically superior opponents.  Give us a strat that makes us say "Oh shit Link could really pull this off"


----------



## Rashou (Jan 8, 2009)

ChidoriCurrent said:


> Well after reading your post and thinking it over. I honestly don't know who would win now.


This happened to me a few pages ago with the argument too. With all abilities from every game given to each of these guys I seriously think it's more of a tie than anything else at this point.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 8, 2009)

You asked for it, Doom Katon. Here it is.

Simple. For those who believe that Magic Cape leaves a shadow (legitimate, when talking about gameplay, though it could be argued that the enemy can't see said shadow), Link plays one of many songs which turn day to night. Assuming it wasn't night already, of course. Then, under the cover of the Magic Cape, he drinks Chateau Romani and pulls out the Four Sword. The other three each don their own capes and drink their own milks. Keep in mind that game-speed Sora and Dante aren't fast enough to charge in and stop this.

From there, the Links use Wind Waker's quiet, stealthy walking to surround Sora, then suddenly all pull out their Ball-n-Chains and start twirling them overhead. Sora gets stacked with combo damage which Second Chance/Wind (dammit, which was it?) shields him from dying from. Regardless, he's still stunlocked by the constant barrage of large balls.

From here, there's a couple of things that could happen. First off, the Links may each finally toss their weapons at Sora, which would each count as different attacks. Four different finishing strikes all at one take Sora out.
However, if you consider Dante's position, things may be even simpler. One of his opponents has cloned and subsequently vanished. The other is stunlocked and obviously nearly finished. Dante has guns; as little damage as they do in gameplay physics, their little poke will still remove Sora's remaining 1 HP. He pops a shot, which passes directly through the caped Link closest to him and into Sora's still stunlocked body. Finished.

Either way. Now it's Dante and Link. Dante, knowing that he's facing constant threats from all sides, may use Royal Guard style and Just Guard over and over again. The Links would try some Light Arrows, but those would only be absorbed and fuel his Just Release. The Links conclude that as long as they remain in this defensive stance, so will Dante. The only way they can win is to lure him onto the offensive.
Whether it's one or all, Link removes his Cape and stands plainly before Dante. Dante uses his guns on Link at first to chip away at his health; however, because Link is wearing the Blue Bracelet and Blue Ring and is enchanted with the Heart Barrier, his bullets do 1/8th of their originally pathetic damage. This amounts to nothing; Dante's sword is stronger and he knows it. He'll have to go for it.
He targets one of the Links (if only one has removed their cape, then it's obvious which one he targets) and uses Just Release. As he hits the apex of that jump, the other Links begin hammering him with Light and Ice Arrows. In the meantime, the Link that he attacked uses the Finisher Parry of WW and stabs him in the face.
If he has 99 revives as somebody said he would, then they have two, maybe three Links keep using the FP while the last one or two keep up the arrow work. Eventually, Dante would fall.

Have I missed anything? Invincibility, invisibility, stunlocking, invulnerability to guns, luring strategy, it's all there, isn't it? If I missed anything, let me know. I'll alter accordingly ^__^


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 8, 2009)

Referee said:


> You asked for it, Doom Katon. Here it is.
> 
> Simple. For those who believe that Magic Cape leaves a shadow (legitimate, when talking about gameplay, though it could be argued that the enemy can't see said shadow), Link plays one of many songs which turn day to night. Assuming it wasn't night already, of course. Then, under the cover of the Magic Cape, he drinks Chateau Romani and pulls out the Four Sword. The other three each don their own capes and drink their own milks. Keep in mind that game-speed Sora and Dante aren't fast enough to charge in and stop this.
> 
> ...



The problem with this is that Sora and Dante or seeming very much like fodder, I mean your not describing a battle your describing a pure massacre. Also even if game speed Sora and Dante aren't fast enough to rush in, Dante's bullets hit instantly.  If Link is such a threat I would think that Dante would step in before Sora gets the raping that you described above.  

It seems that the way you see it Link would leave this battle totally unharmed.  I mean something about Sora getting KO'd by a couple ball and chains, and Dante getting pegged by light and ice arrows until he dies seems very off lol.


----------



## Sephiroth (Jan 8, 2009)

Why is Link even in this match, he isn't even in the same league with the other two.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 8, 2009)

If Dante shot Link as he tried this, it wouldn't do anything. Since his bullets, which are already weak in gameplay, would be reduced to 12% of their useless damage by Link's protection items. They'd be the equivalent of a warm breeze.
Also, would he immediately recognize that a kid drinking a glass of milk would become such a threat? He'd shoot a guy just for taking a drink? XD

Again, Link getting out of this without getting hurt doesn't seem too crazy. Counting all those protection items and the fact that he's made himself impossible to track or even make offensive contact with, Sora's end seems reasonable. I suppose Sora could spam his beloved Reflect and maybe even summon Tinkerbell to keep him healed up, maybe both. But still, the moment he took a break from defending, the Links would begin their attack. There should be at least a slight gap in his reflecting when his MP runs out, however brief. And could Tinkerbell's constant regen really hold Sora's HP any higher than 1 in the face of such an attack?

Dante's fate is simply because he's strategically forced into a position where he has to charge into an attack from 4 sides. Oh, and also because Just Release is one of his more open moves. A leaping straight-up slice after which he has to fall back to the floor. Consider that the Finisher Parry comes from dodging vertical slices, and that Dante's fairly vulnerable from the air.
I guess he could have gone Devil Trigger, and I confess, I don't know much about his forms. This is where you come in. Fix my strategy. Given the scenario which EG Link's inventory has allowed him to put in place, how which DT form would save him and how? If you're stuck, I grant you even this Super Devil Trigger I've heard people going on about. What's it do? How's it work?

EDIT: Yay for not reading the thread! =D See? This is why it's not a poll. While you guys are stuck trying to find a hole in my strategy, this guy came in and blew Link off completely, thinking of OoT or TP, I'm willing to bet. Wind Waker, maybe? ^^;


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 8, 2009)

Referee said:


> If Dante shot Link as he tried this, it wouldn't do anything. Since his bullets, which are already weak in gameplay, would be reduced to 12% of their useless damage by Link's protection items. They'd be the equivalent of a warm breeze.
> Also, would he immediately recognize that a kid drinking a glass of milk would become such a threat? He'd shoot a guy just for taking a drink? XD
> 
> Again, Link getting out of this without getting hurt doesn't seem too crazy. Counting all those protection items and the fact that he's made himself impossible to track or even make offensive contact with, Sora's end seems reasonable. I suppose Sora could spam his beloved Reflect and maybe even summon Tinkerbell to keep him healed up, maybe both. But still, the moment he took a break from defending, the Links would begin their attack. There should be at least a slight gap in his reflecting when his MP runs out, however brief. And could Tinkerbell's constant regen really hold Sora's HP any higher than 1 in the face of such an attack?
> ...



Well about Dante's bullets, they don't do a lot of damage to creatures with super human durability so for all you know 1/8th of the damage to Link could very well be more than just a warm breeze.  If Link is totally invincible do to his protection items then I'm willing to say that this will be a tie, but I don't see Dante being killed by any of Links weapons or powers, sorry I honestly don't.


----------



## Jυstin (Jan 8, 2009)

What will Link do when Dante starts spamming his Pandora's Box shit, one attack every 1/2 second? What will link do to Sora in his Valor or Master forms?

Link's arrows and boomerangs are useless against guys who dodge bullets and block projectiles with ease. His sword combat ability also pales in comparison to Sora's and Dante's speed.

The only way I can imagine link to do any damage is if he can become a wolf or if he uses his bombs, but then again, him pulling out a bomb, lighting it, and throwing it won't be very affective against characters as mobile as Dante and Sora. I'm not even including all of Sora's magical combos or techniques.

Ragnarok or Trinity Limit would be the end of him right there.

Only the Link from Smash Brothers stands a good combat chance, because he is so much more agile than from the other games. Problem is, Smash Brothers can't be considered canon material to use for Link's feats, since they made Mewtwo lighter than Ness in it.

Link, really doesn't belong here. He should be in a match with someone like Mario or Ike, though, he'd have a hard time with him.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 8, 2009)

About Pandora, I haven't seen it in action, but judging by your description, I have trouble believing it would do anything when Link's entirely intangible. One attack that hits nothing every 1/2 a second. 
Sora doesn't get Valor or Master forms. Or any, really, because who's he gonna fuse with? Link and Dante?

Couple things about the bullets bit. We're talking about in terms of gameplay, not cutscenes. If you still think that Sora dodges bullets because of his Return Fire command in Port Royal, consider that he blocks when he hears the gun cock, then the pirate shoots at his sword and the bullet bounces off. That's not bullet-timing, that's predicting an attack. Which is hard to do when you can't see your opponent because they're wearing a magical cape that makes light waves go right through their body.

What about pulling out a bomb which is caught in the invisibility field of the Magic Cape and has a remote detonator? Meet Remote Bombs from Minish Cap ^____^ Which are also highly effective bludgeoning weapons.
Again, what do Ragnarok or Trinity do when Link's like air to his attacks?

I don't see the problem with Mewtwo being light o_O The way I remember him floating around in Pokemon: The First Movie, he didn't exactly look chunky. He's a cat! Though it's also been nine years since I've seen it, so I may be wrong.
Regardless, does merging Soul Caliber 2 Link into it help any? =D

I dunno about him having a hard time with those two. After Sora and Dante are confined to gameplay rules (which is like saying 'equalized speed,' but closer to canon), they have a hard enough time with him as is. EG Mario's pretty damn tough, too, and I still don't know who would win, but for the time being, Link seems to be doing perfectly well here ^__^

Just out of curiosity, though, did you read the thread up to this point? I can't blame you if you haven't (it's 25 fucking pages! x______X), but it's fun to note some of my responses to your comments could be found back there somewhere.


----------



## Stroev (Jan 8, 2009)

Stroev said:


> After reading the last fffffucking 44 pages, I've come to a conclusion:
> 
> Link attempts to delay his demise. Also attacks from afar, and heals when necesary.
> 
> ...


I quote myselff, due to making a point.


----------



## Sasaki Kojirō (Jan 8, 2009)

Jυstin said:


> What will Link do when Dante starts spamming his Pandora's Box shit, one attack every 1/2 second? What will link do to Sora in his Valor or Master forms?
> 
> Link's arrows and boomerangs are useless against guys who dodge bullets and block projectiles with ease. His sword combat ability also pales in comparison to Sora's and Dante's speed.
> 
> ...



Have you played as Link outside of Smash Bros? Because you're mentioning Dante's best weapon against Link's most basic shit.

Using gameplay mechanics from just Lttp Link can become intangible and make screen-size firestorms or earthquakes...


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 8, 2009)

Referee said:


> About Pandora, I haven't seen it in action, but judging by your description, I have trouble believing it would do anything when Link's entirely intangible. One attack that hits nothing every 1/2 a second.
> Sora doesn't get Valor or Master forms. Or any, really, because who's he gonna fuse with? Link and Dante?
> 
> Couple things about the bullets bit. We're talking about in terms of gameplay, not cutscenes. If you still think that Sora dodges bullets because of his Return Fire command in Port Royal, consider that he blocks when he hears the gun cock, then the pirate shoots at his sword and the bullet bounces off. That's not bullet-timing, that's predicting an attack. Which is hard to do when you can't see your opponent because they're wearing a magical cape that makes light waves go right through their body.
> ...



Well we can play the waiting game too.  How exactly will Link kill Dante if he is able to use his Dreadnaught armor, which would be fueled by him using Royal Guard?


----------



## Densoro (Jan 8, 2009)

If Dante plays the waiting game, he'll never be on the offensive. Stalemate. If he breaks this stalemate, all the Links leap into attack. Dante's guns won't likely do anything, considering that Link has your beloved insane durability, too. Claymore to the face by the gameplay rules on which we're operating. Dante's guns don't even do anything to a skeleton whose face can be punched off in one hit.
If his guns are useless, he'll have to enter melee combat. Link will move to Parry Attacks against each and every strike while the others just stab in from the sidelines.

That's if he waits out my invincibility gambit, though I could have Link just pause said plan. He allows one milk to run out, saves the other four.


----------



## Jυstin (Jan 8, 2009)

The Faint Smile said:


> Have you played as Link outside of Smash Bros? Because you're mentioning Dante's best weapon against Link's most basic shit.



Yeah, I have, and beat Twilight Princess, but I haven't played Devil May Cry, only saw it, and what I saw from Devil May Cry trumps what Link could do. His melee attacks are so fast and deadly, and you can't really dodge or try to predict what he's going to do next, since one Pandora's Box move is as random as the next, and have very diverse effects.

Seriously, I'm glad Dante wasn't a boss of Legend of Zelda.



> Using gameplay mechanics from just Lttp Link can become intangible and make screen-size firestorms or earthquakes...



I'm either guessing this takes some time to do, or it doesn't last long. No game lets you stay invincible forever, but then again, earthquakes don't help much, since when you spam Pandora's Box, you stay air born. I also believe some of the moves, like the one where Dante pulls out a mini tank, makes you impervious to damage. That move can be used repetitively too, with no lag time.

As for Sora, I believe a few of his forms can fly, and would be able to counter fire storms with his own magic armada. I think those forms also make him invincible for as long as they last, which is a decent while.

You know what Trinity Limit does?


----------



## Rashou (Jan 8, 2009)

Sora's definitely bullet timing in Port Royal- the reaction command can be pulled off even when your back is turned to the enemy, so he obviously sees the bullet itself.

And Sora also wouldn't need to constantly heal or cast Reflega. Xemnas' enemy card ensures he'll only ever take as much damage as Link can deal out with one blow (blocks the second hit onward of a combo). As for keeping track of Link, Sora just has to use Magnega then he'll know where Link is... So he runs away from him there, lol. After he realizes he can't hurt Link he'll just dash away after casting a Magnega to give himself some time, and fight with Dante as he's on the run.


----------



## Supertails (Jan 8, 2009)

I love how everyone insists that Ref is the only one rooting for Link even though I've made my side more obvious than Bush's stupidity.  :3

Not to mention the few others that've dropped by and said Link.  >.>

Justin, you don't even know what's going on, do you?  We've already explained it so Link is untouchable and nigh impossible to harm.  And Sora can't use forms without Donald or Goofy, so that's pointless to mention.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 8, 2009)

It can be used against a gunner behind you because Sora hears them cocking their gun first. It sounds like a shotgun. Once you hear the boom of actually firing, the command prompt vanishes ^^;

=O Xemnas enemy card? Where do you get it? That seems it'd change a lot of things. The Links would all have to take turns hitting Sora. Luckily, though, that method cancels out Second Whichever. Swapping out the Blue Ring for the Red doubles Link's sword attack; if they all do this and surround Sora, each one using Great Spin in alternating order, they each land one powerful hit, then their combo ends. Then the next does it.

Still, if he's gonna fight Dante while he waits it out, who do you imagine would win?


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 8, 2009)

Supertails said:


> I love how everyone insists that Ref is the only one rooting for Link even though I've made my side more obvious than Bush's stupidity.  :3
> 
> Not to mention the few others that've dropped by and said Link.  >.>
> 
> Justin, you don't even know what's going on, do you?  We've already explained it so Link is untouchable and nigh impossible to harm.  And Sora can't use forms without Donald or Goofy, so that's pointless to mention.



Ah long time no see Supertails.  I've decided to take the Dante invincibility route as well, so I guess Dante wins do to Link dying of starvation, old age, or the sun becoming a super nova.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 8, 2009)

Why would Link starve? D= He's got milk. All Dante's got is DEMUN POWAH. Not very nutritious, as far as I know =/


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 8, 2009)

Referee said:


> Why would Link starve? D= He's got milk. All Dante's got is DEMUN POWAH. Not very nutritious, as far as I know =/



Ok then old age.  Since you gave Dante super devil trigger he can kill Sora while waiting for Link to die.


----------



## ChidoriCurrent (Jan 8, 2009)

Referee said:


> Why would Link starve? D= He's got milk. All Dante's got is DEMUN POWAH. Not very nutritious, as far as I know =/



Humans can last 4  weeks  without food. I'm pretty sure Dante can lost much longer than that. Sora has never shown to eat so


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 8, 2009)

Referee, I don't think Sora needs to fuse with anyone, that was just something they added to balance final form and such...though I have to admit, I would pay to see a fusioned Dante and Sora.

Rashou
Enemy card?
Are you talking about Chain of Memories or am I mising some part of the gameplay of the other games here?


----------



## Densoro (Jan 8, 2009)

Somebody wanna explain what Super DT does? ^^; I guess I wasn't clear before, but I've only heard the name. I've got no idea what it's for.
Anyway, as to necessity of fusion, consider A) that you can't Drive against Sephiroth, and B) that if you swap out Donald, you don't get his wisdom, and if you swap out Goofy, you lose his valor. And even if it is a gameplay-only mechanic, Supes managed to remind the lot of us that the original rule was to go with gameplay mechanics XD

But yes, I wonder at this Xemnas card =O I'm thinking KH2:FM, since it came packaged with the PS2 version of CoM. That right, Rashou?


----------



## Rashou (Jan 8, 2009)

Referee said:


> It can be used against a gunner behind you because Sora hears them cocking their gun first. It sounds like a shotgun. Once you hear the boom of actually firing, the command prompt vanishes ^^;


Hearing their gun cock doesn't explain why he can turn around and instantly know where the bullet is despite the fact that he was facing a completely different direction. Instead it's more logical to think he can just block the bullet.  



> =O Xemnas enemy card? Where do you get it? That seems it'd change a lot of things. The Links would all have to take turns hitting Sora. Luckily, though, that method cancels out Second Whichever. Swapping out the Blue Ring for the Red doubles Link's sword attack; if they all do this and surround Sora, each one using Great Spin in alternating order, they each land one powerful hit, then their combo ends. Then the next does it.


It's in Rehain of memories (not sure exactly where as I haven't played the game, just did a bit of research on it), and the combo isn't governed by the enemy hitting him, but by time. That means that even if they all hit him by taking turns he still needs to get at least a second of rest to do whatever or he'll take it by Xemnas' enemy card. 



> Still, if he's gonna fight Dante while he waits it out, who do you imagine would win?


Between him and Dante? Hard to tell without knowing exactly how much they'll be interfered with by attempts to take them out from Link. If Dante's bothered more, he goes down. Even if Sora's bothered Sora will still probably last a while, though.

EDIT: And a small point here- you CAN form with just Sora. You can't use all of his forms, but you can use the KH2: FM+ exclusive Brave Form (which wouldn't be a huge help except for allowing Sora to heal himself completely instantly).


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 8, 2009)

Referee said:


> Somebody wanna explain what Super DT does? ^^; I guess I wasn't clear before, but I've only heard the name. I've got no idea what it's for.
> Anyway, as to necessity of fusion, consider A) that you can't Drive against Sephiroth, and B) that if you swap out Donald, you don't get his wisdom, and if you swap out Goofy, you lose his valor. And even if it is a gameplay-only mechanic, Supes managed to remind the lot of us that the original rule was to go with gameplay mechanics XD
> 
> But yes, I wonder at this Xemnas card =O I'm thinking KH2:FM, since it came packaged with the PS2 version of CoM. That right, Rashou?



Super ST gives him unlimited DT mode.  So pretty much he is a flying, fast, strong, lightening blasting, fireball throwing, super regenerating monster.  I presume he has all his DT powers across all games so he he's pretty much a nightmare.


----------



## ChidoriCurrent (Jan 8, 2009)

Referee said:


> Somebody wanna explain what Super DT does? ^^; I guess I wasn't clear before, but I've only heard the name. I've got no idea what it's for.
> Anyway, as to necessity of fusion, consider A) that you can't Drive against Sephiroth, and B) that if you swap out Donald, you don't get his wisdom, and if you swap out Goofy, you lose his valor. And even if it is a gameplay-only mechanic, Supes managed to remind the lot of us that the original rule was to go with gameplay mechanics XD
> 
> But yes, I wonder at this Xemnas card =O I'm thinking KH2:FM, since it came packaged with the PS2 version of CoM. That right, Rashou?



Super DT allows Dante to be in devil trigger form for an infinte amount of time.


----------



## Supertails (Jan 8, 2009)

If you guys wanna argue like that, then, Link has also shown to never *have* to eat.  I could leave him in one spot for five years straight, and he'd be perfectly fine.

I also have yet to see him age by doing that.  =3


----------



## ChidoriCurrent (Jan 8, 2009)

Supertails said:


> If you guys wanna argue like that, then, Link has also shown to never *have* to eat.  I could leave him in one spot for five years straight, and he'd be perfectly fine.
> 
> I also have yet to see him age by doing that.  =3



Netheir have Sora and Dante so... I don't see how Link would win. All i could possibly see is a tie


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 8, 2009)

This isn't going anywhere.
As soon as either Dante or Sora looks like they are about to beat Link, the other side will start to argue against them...

Personally I'd like to have some form of truce between Sora and Dante supporters until it is guaranteed Link is gone.
Otherwise, this isn't going to end any time soon.

On that note did we ever go through how Link sufferes constant damage near sources of heat unless he puts on a specific item?


----------



## Rashou (Jan 8, 2009)

Does Dante have a Super Devil Trigger for DMC2? He'd have his own invincibility with Sparda form Devil Trigger lasting forever.


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 8, 2009)

Rashou said:


> Does Dante have a Super Devil Trigger for DMC2? He'd have his own invincibility with Sparda form Devil Trigger lasting forever.



The problem is that they are arguing that Link is invisible, and intangible.  

Now that I think of it, Link would eventually run out of MP.


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 8, 2009)

Doom Katon said:


> The problem is that they are arguing that Link is invisible, and intangible.
> 
> Now that I think of it, Link would eventually run out of MP.



Isn't the argument that Link is going to drink milk, or do I have to look through the 24 pages to find what argument the Link side has?


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 8, 2009)

Ax_ said:


> Isn't the argument that Link is going to drink milk, or do I have to look through the 24 pages to find what argument the Link side has?



I'm talking about in the long run, he doesn't have an endless supply of milk in his inventory.


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 8, 2009)

Doom Katon said:


> I'm talking about in the long run, he doesn't have an endless supply of milk in his inventory.



Again, it was argued that he would drink milk over and over again, just before the timer runs out...

For a total of, I think, 15 days...

Of course, since someone here was so kind to tell us, neither Dante nor Sora needs to be fed and their games can be kept on for years.
Everyone arguing for either Dante or Sora, lets thanks this nice guy, alright?

Let's all thank supertails for making sure Link can't win by waiting out his opponents!


----------



## Densoro (Jan 8, 2009)

Oh, finally saw Doom's post defining Super DT ^^; Must've missed it in the rush. What are the conditions for that? FOREVER forever is crazy e__e Even mine doesn't last that long.
Also, Ax_, my plan's at the beginning-ish of the last page. Pretty much just a summary of everything else said in the thread all rolled into one large post.
And just to make sure, Link can't starve, either. None of them need to eat ^^


----------



## ChidoriCurrent (Jan 8, 2009)

Referee said:


> Oh, finally saw Doom's post defining Super DT ^^; Must've missed it in the rush. What are the conditions for that? FOREVER forever is crazy e__e Even mine doesn't last that long.
> Also, Ax_, my plan's at the beginning-ish of the last page. Pretty much just a summary of everything else said in the thread all rolled into one large post.
> And just to make sure, Link can't starve, either. None of them need to eat ^^



You didn't say that in the OP you can't just go and twist your words the way you want them just so Link can win. Not that it really matters because it will just be a tie etheir way.


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 8, 2009)

Referee said:


> Also, Ax_, my plan's at the beginning-ish of the last page. Pretty much just a summary of everything else said in the thread all rolled into one large post.
> And just to make sure, Link can't starve, either. None of them need to eat ^^



Come on man, don't do this.
You can't expect me to check through over 20+ pages of peoploe going "this guy sucks, he loses"...
At least change the OP if you are going to change stuff around.

But here is a fun idea that I wonder if anyone has considered
Since Link will drink several bottles during this fight...how will he handle going to the bathroom?


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 8, 2009)

Well it would appear that after 15 days Link would be majorly boned lol.


----------



## Sephiroth (Jan 8, 2009)

So Link lost this, because Sora and Dante don't eat, and 15 days only delay his brutal death.

I might give this to Dante depending on how long that invincibility last.


----------



## ChidoriCurrent (Jan 8, 2009)

Xehanort said:


> So Link lost this, because Sora and Dante don't eat, and 15 days only delay his brutal death.
> 
> I might give this to Dante depending on how long that invincibility last.



he can stay in that state for as long as he wants :amazed


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 8, 2009)

Sora has the same ability, more or less, in Reflega, which can be activate constantly.
Since he also doesn't need to sleep or eat to retain it, this basically comes down to which one of them gets bored of this first.

And which one do you think that'll b e?

The guy who acts like a daredevil or the one who generally remains calm enough to go and visit people in a storybook in the middle of a quest to save the whole damn creation?

@referee
Reading your post on the previous page, Sora won't have to stop using REflega, since he regenerates magic really damn fast at the end.


----------



## Rashou (Jan 8, 2009)

Yeah, if you combine Sparda Devil Trigger with Super Devil Trigger... Dante can't be harmed, can blast fireballs endlessly and turn into an asteroid destroying dragon, survive getting punched through Earth's atmosphere and to the ground, and get up after being bathed in Lava only to fight the Supreme ruler of the Underworld some more.

EDIT: And, actually, Sora from Rehain of Memories has something called the Platinum card which makes him invulnerable unless he uses 20 other cards. Thus, making this match officially Link's loss (as his invulnerability/intangibility) is governed by a time limit of 15 days. Dante and Sora can go on forever so long as Sora doesn't use 20 other cards and Dante uses Super DT + Sparda. The match after that is a tie. 

Didn't mention the Platinum card before because it's cheap and boring, but since the other two now have invincibility, meh.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 8, 2009)

Chidori, what didn't I say in the OP? o_O Ax_, what am I changing around? .__.?
Also, you don't have to look through 20 pages. Like I said, my plan's on Page 26. No way in hell I'd force you to go through it all e___e! What kind of asshole do you think I am?

And I'm still waiting on the requirements for that Super DT. If somebody woulda told me earlier that it was just an invulnerability buff, I woulda rethought it.


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 8, 2009)

And Sora sends back all attacks thanks to Reflega and since we are using game mechanics and such, this can't be countered...

So the attacks will hit either Link or Dante, and Link only has 15 days of invincibility.

And is there no downside to this supertrigger then?
Can Dante keep it on or whatever for as long as he wants, with nothing bad happening?


----------



## Sephiroth (Jan 8, 2009)

So Link is gutted, slashed, raped, reaction commanded, while Sora and Dante fight for eternity? Sora does have infinite heal.

What feats does Dante have as a boss in DMC4.

Not until this thread did I realize how truly powerful Sora is, he could use stop to kill almost any other character. Aside from this thread, because time skills were banned to give Link somwhat of a chance.

He is up their with Ultimecia riggedness, becuase of his blade that can cut anything.


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 8, 2009)

Xehanort said:


> So Link is gutted, slashed, raped, reaction commanded, while Sora and Dante fight for Eternity? Sora does have infinite heal.
> 
> What feats does Dante have as a boss in DMC4.



Not heal that is important.
Reflega is.

It is BETTER than healing, since it not only protects you from being knocked back or stopped from acting in other ways it also sends the effect back to the enemy.
Favorite way to kill bossess if you don't want to try too hard.
Except for Sephiroth and other hax ones...

@Referee
Sorry, guess I misunderstood you.
Still, it'd be nice if any changes here was put up on the OP so I don't have to look through the topic every time I come to narutoforums to try and find out if you have added some new requirement to all of this.


----------



## ChidoriCurrent (Jan 8, 2009)

Referee said:


> Chidori, what didn't I say in the OP? o_O Ax_, what am I changing around? .__.?
> Also, you don't have to look through 20 pages. Like I said, my plan's on Page 26. No way in hell I'd force you to go through it all e___e! What kind of asshole do you think I am?
> 
> And I'm still waiting on the requirements for that Super DT. If somebody woulda told me earlier that it was just an invulnerability buff, I woulda rethought it.



You never said they didn't need to eat in the OP but now you say that because Sora and Dante have never been shown to have to eat to survive. and Super DT dosen't have any requirements.


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 8, 2009)

Referee said:


> Chidori, what didn't I say in the OP? o_O Ax_, what am I changing around? .__.?
> Also, you don't have to look through 20 pages. Like I said, my plan's on Page 26. No way in hell I'd force you to go through it all e___e! What kind of asshole do you think I am?
> 
> And I'm still waiting on the requirements for that Super DT. If somebody woulda told me earlier that it was just an invulnerability buff, I woulda rethought it.



You said that he could use it, other than its activation there is nothing else...it lasts forever lol.  Besides his normal durability Dante is invulnerable with Dreadnaught armor from Royal Guard.  In Super DT mode is gets everything buffed and insane attacks and durability (has anyone here ever died while DT was activated lol), and as Rashou was so kind to remind me in Sparda DT mode he is pretty much a god.  Sooo in 15 days Link is standing there with his shield lol.


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 8, 2009)

There, can we agree Link is over with now?
Or is there any more we forgot to take up here?


----------



## ChidoriCurrent (Jan 8, 2009)

Ax_ said:


> There, can we agree Link is over with now?
> Or is there any more we forgot to take up here?



No watch Referee will find some way to nerf Dante or give Link some uber powerup.


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 8, 2009)

Ax_ said:


> There, can we agree Link is over with now?
> Or is there any more we forgot to take up here?



Yea I think at this point we need to figure out Sora vs Dante.


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 8, 2009)

ChidoriCurrent said:


> No watch Referee will find some way to nerf Dante or give Link some uber powerup.



He could do the same to Sora, though.
Just quickly read through the thread, and it talked about how Link would use light arrows to hurt Sora who was now Heartless for some reason, or something like that...

@Doom Katon
Let's wait a day or so to see if any more stuff is brought up for Link.
If none happen, both sides can go all out and actually have something worth talking about...for close to 30 pages...am I the only one who feels this thread took alot of time?


----------



## Sephiroth (Jan 8, 2009)

Does Sora's ability to get rid of Boss invulnerability count?


----------



## Stroev (Jan 8, 2009)

Xehanort said:


> So Link is gutted, slashed, raped, reaction commanded, while Sora and Dante fight for eternity? Sora does have infinite heal.
> 
> What feats does Dante have as a boss in DMC4.


Only quoted for  code and an lolno.

Link has not only infinite magic for 15 days with the milk, but so long as he has ruppies, he'll last(TP magic armor).
Now he also has the 1/2 MP consumption ability as well, so 30 days with the milk. 

Add Giant's mask transformation. He's huge. And invincible. All equipment and items are proportionate to his size.

Magena? Link uses wooden swords, and has been shown to wrestle and punch as well. With a cane of Byrna, he has a laser that strikes nearby enemies. He can equip rings which halve damage as well. I'll be glad to go on. 

I've been seeing people mix and match Link's abilities, and no Link was specified, either. So there you go.


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 8, 2009)

Xehanort said:


> Does Sora's ability to get rid of Boss invulnerability count?



Why shouldn't it?
Everything i included here.

Still, this annoys me with this setup
Whoever kills Link first will have to suffer through giving the other side time to attack you.

Not that this has to happen.
If, say, Dante attacks Sora with an attack and Sora uses Reflega then the attack might actually hit Link if Dante is fast enough to jump away, if they all stand like this

S D L

If Dante jumps away after having hit Sora, the blast should hit and kill Link...

@Stroev
That milk only works for 3 days.
Then it stops.
So Link doesn't get 30 days of infinite magic, either way.
Just 15 with infinite, and then he gets the others at half the magic cost.
And Link can only hold 999 rupies, IIRC so that will be fun to deal with after some fast attacks takes away said rupies.


----------



## Stroev (Jan 8, 2009)

Ax_ said:


> @Stroev
> That milk only works for 3 days.
> Then it stops.
> So Link doesn't get 30 days of infinite magic, either way.
> ...


_Nice to know that he can still attack._ With 15 days to do it. As a giant the roughly the same size of the building Sora cut. But invincible. Plus more.

Just lettin' ya know.


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 8, 2009)

And since we run on game mechanics, REflega sends attacks back.
You know, in case you were curious on what would happen if Link got stupid all of a sudden and tried to attack the guy who constantly uses a spell that immediately sends all attacks back at the enemy.

I can promise you tha Sora won't stop that when Link decides to do what you just said.
You might as well argue against the Dante supporters here, because Sora isn't losing in a battle of invincibility against Link.


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 8, 2009)

Stroev said:


> Only quoted for  code and an lolno.
> 
> Link has not only infinite magic for 15 days with the milk, but so long as he has ruppies, he'll last(TP magic armor).
> Now he also has the 1/2 MP consumption ability as well, so 30 days with the milk.
> ...





Oh really, the Giants Mask huh?


the *Giant's Mask* is one of the masks found in . Link gets this mask in  after beating the mini-boss , and it can only be used in the fight against , the major boss of . When equipped,  becomes a giant. Wearing this mask gradually drains magic. However, Link can no longer Z-Target while wearing the mask. *Because this mask is only able to be used inside 's arena*, some speculate that the mask *does not cause  to grow in size, it instead shrinks the arena and all adversaries inside it. *Given the peculiar nature of the , this theory is not so outlandish. The only use it has outside of the fight with  is to trade with the four kids on the moon. 



from Zeldapedia.


Link still dies after 30 days then.


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 8, 2009)

15, dammit.
He won't last a day longer than that given what Dante and Sora are doing.


----------



## Stroev (Jan 8, 2009)

Doom Katon said:


> stuff


Nice find. Of course, should there be anything else that relies on specifics like this for our other contenders, that will also be null(ie Trinity Limit can't be used, snce it's only Sora, etc).

Then again, Zeldapedia is full of bull, if you've read articles regarding the plot. Lotta fan speculation and all.

And Link can still wait for one to lose, and hope to win against a surviving Dante, or attack him directly.



Ax_ said:


> And since we run on game mechanics, REflega sends attacks back.
> You know, in case you were curious on what would happen if Link got stupid all of a sudden and tried to attack the guy who constantly uses a spell that immediately sends all attacks back at the enemy.
> 
> I can promise you tha Sora won't stop that when Link decides to do what you just said.
> You might as well argue against the Dante supporters here, because Sora isn't losing in a battle of invincibility against Link.


Because Sora can blast giant masses away now? 

Not that it makes any difference, due to what Katon has pointed out.

So with all this, Link must wait out the battle, or lose. I don't see this going for 30/15 days.


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 8, 2009)

Stroev said:


> Nice find. Of course, should there be anything else that relies on specifics like this for our other contenders, that will also be null(ie Trinity Limit can't be used, snce it's only Sora, etc).
> 
> Then again, Zeldapedia is full of bull, if you've read articles regarding the plot. Lotta fan speculation and all.
> 
> ...



Well somehow everyone in this fight has become invulnerable, I think that Links 15 days last the least amount of time so hey, guess that's who dies first.  Maybe Dante and Sora will destroy the earth around Link and he'll fall in a pit of lava, that would be convenient.


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 8, 2009)

Wait out the battle?
Wait it out for what?

Why should Sora use anything but Reflega here?
No need to do anything else, really.

So what will Link have to wait out on?
The others won't stop being invincible here, but LINK will.

And in KH 1, IIRC Trinity limit can be used to release an energy wave to deal with the enemy.


----------



## Supertails (Jan 8, 2009)

Sora's MP has to recharge.  Attack him then.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 8, 2009)

Just wanna get this out of the way, I got rid of Link's need to eat when I set gameplay rules. I was never serious about winning by starving the others =/ No worries. Nothing's changed because food has always been a moot point. For all combatants.

Anyway, unless I missed something, nobody's named the condition under which SDT activates. I thought it was just a buffed form, not plainly invincible =/ So under what conditions did he use it in the game? Link and Sora have each been able to satisfy their conditions, Dante should be forced to do the same.

About this Platinum Card, are you positive it wouldn't be depleted by 20 other actions? In CoM, Sora was never able to try and run it out with real actions. All he HAD was cards. But now that he can do normal attacks, is it guaranteed that those won't phase this card's effect?

*fails to see what Doom was trying to prove about the Giant's Mask*

Oh, what removal of boss invulnerability are we talking about? The pendulum Heartless that was stealing the Aztec coins? That doesn't really count =/ All he did was jostle a coin out of its grasp and steal it.

Oh, the only reason I was using Light Arrows is that Sora went Antiform ^____^ And I didn't come up with that, they did.

Also, I'm never going to change the rules of this battle or come up with stupid, baseless nerfs. Such tactics are called dirty and I'm not a fan of them. Besides, what's a victory mean when I had to cheat to get it? I'll still know that I really lost.
No, I'm just trying to find loopholes to exploit with new strats. Just like you guys ^___^ So if I'm doing something stupid, so's everybody else. We're all idiots =D

Goddamn, you lot chatted like hell while I was at dinner o_______O


----------



## Rashou (Jan 8, 2009)

Platinum Card, after you play it, has the countdown by your card amount with '20 cards', indicating its card specific. And you can do other things without cards like run, jump, and in Re: CoM, glide, so no, it's just cards. Although even if it was actions, Sora would probably wait and get down to his very last action trying what he could to hurt Link, then just do nothing until Link popped back into existence. Super Devil Trigger is available after you clear any of the DMC games, and it has no limits in use, you can go DT whenever possible. Dante's invulnerability comes from the fact that he can use it in conjunction with Sparda Devil Trigger.


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 8, 2009)

Referee said:


> Just wanna get this out of the way, I got rid of Link's need to eat when I set gameplay rules. I was never serious about winning by starving the others =/ No worries. Nothing's changed because food has always been a moot point. For all combatants.
> 
> Anyway, unless I missed something, nobody's named the condition under which SDT activates. I thought it was just a buffed form, not plainly invincible =/ So under what conditions did he use it in the game? Link and Sora have each been able to satisfy their conditions, Dante should be forced to do the same.
> 
> ...



I was proving that the giants mask is useless unless your fighting in a particular place, I thought it was pretty self-explanatory.  Also it doesn't matter what the conditions are to activate SDT because you, the OP, said that he could use it.  You set the rules and you set the stage and from the moment you said that Dante is allowed to use SDT you set the outcome.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 8, 2009)

=/ Bah. Goddamn card. Hm...Any chance Giant Link could throw Sora out for a BFR?
And Doom, the only reason you can't use the Giant's Mask in any other boss fights is that the arena would be too small XD You wouldn't be able to move.

As to SDT's requirement, an Easter egg is on par with a glitch, which I have to assume is disallowed. Or else Link can just phase into a tree and make both himself and the tree invincible =D Wind Waker glitch.
I take back my challenge to SDT. I admit, that defeated me ^^ I rushed in without thinking. Now the fight's back to the original form. You beat me. But only for the challenge I so arrogantly threw out because I started feeling really good about somewhat turning the tide. The core fight has yet to be won.


----------



## Supertails (Jan 8, 2009)

Yes, he's *able to use it*, so long as he can meet the conditions.  Just like how Sora could use his forms if he could meet the conditions.


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 9, 2009)

Referee said:


> =/ Bah. Goddamn card. Hm...Any chance Giant Link could throw Sora out for a BFR?
> And Doom, the only reason you can't use the Giant's Mask in any other boss fights is that the arena would be too small XD You wouldn't be able to move.
> 
> As to SDT's requirement, an Easter egg is on par with a glitch, which I have to assume is disallowed. Or else Link can just phase into a tree and make both himself and the tree invincible =D Wind Waker glitch.
> I take back my challenge to SDT. I admit, that defeated me ^^ I rushed in without thinking. Now the fight's back to the original form. You beat me. But only for the challenge I so arrogantly threw out because I started feeling really good about somewhat turning the tide. The core fight has yet to be won.



Or maybe the power of the mask is limited to that temple as its implied.  

Well you can throw out SDT but you cant get rid of Sparda devil trigger that he uses at the end of DMC1, that has more than enough power and durability to outlast anything the hero of time can throw at him.

Just a reminder: other crap


----------



## Densoro (Jan 9, 2009)

As I remember it, there was no stated canon connection between the mask and the temple. They just so happened to work well together.

Also. I can't help but notice how laser-happy Dante is (or beam-happy, since I apparently have to be careful with the word 'laser' now >_> <___<) in Sparda. You may wanna notice how Mirror Shield-happy Link is in...uh...general ^^;


----------



## Rashou (Jan 9, 2009)

Sora could pry open Link's fingers before he's thrown. Even a giant Link has no strength feats that put him on par with a guy that _casually_ plays baseballs with buildings.


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 9, 2009)

Referee said:


> As I remember it, there was no stated canon connection between the mask and the temple. They just so happened to work well together.
> 
> Also. I can't help but notice how laser-happy Dante is (or beam-happy, since I apparently have to be careful with the word 'laser' now >_> <___<) in Sparda. You may wanna notice how Mirror Shield-happy Link is in...uh...general ^^;



Well I remember you saying that Link was sitting there in defensive mode so Dante will be fighting Sora, at this point we're ignoring the invisible elf who is shooting colorful arrows 100 feet below us lol.

I'm not going to even talk about whether the mirror has a limit on the magnitude of attacks it can reflect.  I mean just because you can block a bomb, does that mean you can block a nuke?  The force of bombs push Link back, I'd think a beam from Dante would sent Link hurling into a boulder lmao.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 9, 2009)

What about being a giant (which automatically gives him a huge strength buff; if he had Little Link strength, how would he lift his resized sword?) with arms that, when small, could still throw 12-foot obese rockmen around, and could trip about 15-18 foot ones? Outfitted with bracelets that let little kids lift 8-12 foot stone heads and gauntlets that let perfectly normal 17 year old men lift 18-foot tall pillars? All of this, of course, scaled up to match Link's new height.
Is that enough strength to hold Sora captive?

EDIT: Doom, beams don't push Link back at all, though ^_____^ No worries. He'll aim Dante's Magic Missiles back down his throat in no time.


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 9, 2009)

Referee said:


> What about being a giant (which automatically gives him a huge strength buff; if he had Little Link strength, how would he lift his resized sword?) with arms that, when small, could still throw 12-foot obese rockmen around, and could trip about 15-18 foot ones? Outfitted with bracelets that let little kids lift 8-12 foot stone heads and gauntlets that let perfectly normal 17 year old men lift 18-foot tall pillars? All of this, of course, scaled up to match Link's new height.
> Is that enough strength to hold Sora captive?
> 
> EDIT: Doom, beams don't push Link back at all, though ^_____^ No worries. He'll aim Dante's Magic Missiles back down his throat in no time.



Why are you still talking about the Giant's Mask?  The mask does not work anywhere else, sorry.  So if he's reflecting Dante's beams does that mean he is no longer intangible, because if so then he is dead.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 9, 2009)

Yeah, way to prove wrong my post about there being no canon connection between the mask and the temple. "No, see, you're wrong" doesn't cut it unless those words have a link to your proof ^^


----------



## Supertails (Jan 9, 2009)

And don't quote that Zeldawiki thingy again.  That was speculation.

Speculation =/= Proof


----------



## Rashou (Jan 9, 2009)

Referee said:


> What about being a giant (which automatically gives him a huge strength buff; if he had Little Link strength, how would he lift his resized sword?) with arms that, when small, could still throw 12-foot obese rockmen around, and could trip about 15-18 foot ones? Outfitted with bracelets that let little kids lift 8-12 foot stone heads and gauntlets that let perfectly normal 17 year old men lift 18-foot tall pillars? All of this, of course, scaled up to match Link's new height.
> Is that enough strength to hold Sora captive?
> 
> EDIT: Doom, beams don't push Link back at all, though ^_____^ No worries. He'll aim Dante's Magic Missiles back down his throat in no time.


But he's using his whole arm and in some cases his whole body for those actions- when picking up Sora he'd be using only hand strength. Maybe two hand strength. And even becoming giant wouldn't give him that much more hand strength.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 9, 2009)

He'd also use his whole arm and body to toss Sora right quick. Plus, based on the selective nature of his intangibility ("I can touch you, you can't touch me"), I have to wonder if Sora could even pry him off, or if his hands would go right through. Y'know, if Link and only Link had the power to choose when contact is made while the cape is on. Otherwise, he'd take damage while standing through bosses and stabbing them repeatedly. The part of him that was corporeal would take a hit. But it doesn't.


----------



## Rashou (Jan 9, 2009)

Well Sora just aerial dodges and cancels out the force of the throw like he can do when Xemnas WTF knocks him away from the giant dragon ship.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 9, 2009)

Can he really? o_O
What if supergiant Link flicks him away? Then he'd have to do an aerial recovery AND an air dodge, and with the sheer ungodly strength Link would have thrown him at, that moment could make a decent difference.
Or Link could clonk Sora over the head with a Gale Seed (teleports enemy away) or a Deku Nut (stuns enemy) and throw him then.

And just for fun, I realized, that seed would be fucking enormous o_____O Like a coconut at least! Would that give it greater stunning power?
EDIT: Gonna have to head off to bed soon. Got time for one more post if we all hurry, otherwise this waits till tomorrow, when I have to reply to another two pages of stuff e____e


----------



## Rashou (Jan 9, 2009)

Gale Seeds wouldn't work on Sora, would they? Thought they didn't work on bosses? And with invincibility up, Sora wouldn't need to do an aerial recovery because he wouldn't recoil like he'd been hit. And Sora's actually faced giant opponents before... As a lion cub, so I doubt any of giant Link's attacks would even send him flying nearly so far as he'd need to be sent for a BFR in the first place. As for getting stunned, Sora can break out before Link can pick him up and pull his arm back and throw, I would think (he breaks out in like three seconds). Even if the throw is pulled off, Sora just glides back after an Aerial Dodge.

EDIT: How far is a ringout considered here anyway? Usually in the OBD a ringout is attained by sending the opponent flying, like, between continents or planets or sometimes even stellar systems or galaxies or universes. I wouldn't think anything less than a couple hundred meters would be grounds for ringout, and Sora will probably have enough time to aerial recover even if he's stun in that time.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 9, 2009)

I think you misunderstood the stunning plan XD Link would grab first, then while holding Sora, he'd smash a nut (size ranging anywhere from a coconut to a mid-sized dog) into Sora's face, then pitch him. With a three-second breakout time (which I wonder might be longer, with such a huge Deku Nut) and at Supergiant Link's obscene speed, would those three seconds be too late?
Anyway, I gotta head out, people. Guess we'll pick it up again tomorrow. Gute nacht ^___^


----------



## Sephiroth (Jan 9, 2009)

Now I see how Referee does this, he just makes up random strategies to make this go on forever, no wonder this is 29 pages long.


----------



## Schneider (Jan 9, 2009)

Referee said:


> I think you misunderstood the stunning plan XD *Link would grab first*, then while holding Sora, he'd smash a nut (size ranging anywhere from a coconut to a mid-sized dog) into Sora's face, then pitch him. With a three-second breakout time (which I wonder might be longer, with such a huge Deku Nut) and at Supergiant Link's obscene speed, would those three seconds be too late?
> Anyway, I gotta head out, people. Guess we'll pick it up again tomorrow. Gute nacht ^___^



And now you're not making any sense. Giant Link would have to move at massively hypersonic speeds to even be able to do that. And there's still Sora's muscle which manhandled giants throughout the series, so he is able to break out, or simply avoid it right away.


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 9, 2009)

Supertails said:


> And don't quote that Zeldawiki thingy again.  That was speculation.
> 
> Speculation =/= Proof



....If you wear the mask anywhere else does it have any effect?

This inst speculation its a scientific hypothesis based on clear evidence which you are currently not able to disprove and are therefore trying to discredit.  

Using instances from game play you show me a case where you can equip the Giants mask in any other location and have it increase his size.  Furthermore this hypothesis is justified being that Link has been shown to wear the mask in other locations with no effect at all.


----------



## Yoshitsuna (Jan 9, 2009)

If Link has Book of Koridai, he wins, if not, Sora wins.

Dante can't win.


----------



## Doom Katon (Jan 9, 2009)

Referee said:


> I think you misunderstood the stunning plan XD Link would grab first, then while holding Sora, he'd smash a nut (size ranging anywhere from a coconut to a mid-sized dog) into Sora's face, then pitch him. With a three-second breakout time (which I wonder might be longer, with such a huge Deku Nut) and at Supergiant Link's obscene speed, would those three seconds be too late?
> Anyway, I gotta head out, people. Guess we'll pick it up again tomorrow. Gute nacht ^___^



Wait so now Link has obscene speed where the hell did this come from.  How the hell are you able to just freely make up shit?  Ok then Dante combines the power of of all his swords, and fucking destroys the earth....

But in all seriousness are you claiming that Link will still be intangible while doing this to Sora because that would be some serious bullshit.  I guess you forgot about the Lightening + Fireball blasting + Yamato Wielding Sparda Devil Trigger Dante who is flying right above you guys.


----------



## Supertails (Jan 9, 2009)

*"....If you wear the mask anywhere else does it have any effect?

This inst speculation its a scientific hypothesis based on clear evidence which you are currently not able to disprove and are therefore trying to discredit. 

Using instances from game play you show me a case where you can equip the Giants mask in any other location and have it increase his size. Furthermore this hypothesis is justified being that Link has been shown to wear the mask in other locations with no effect at all."*

You use it to trade with the kids on the moon.


----------



## Rashou (Jan 9, 2009)

Referee said:


> I think you misunderstood the stunning plan XD Link would grab first, then while holding Sora, he'd smash a nut (size ranging anywhere from a coconut to a mid-sized dog) into Sora's face, then pitch him. With a three-second breakout time (which I wonder might be longer, with such a huge Deku Nut) and at Supergiant Link's obscene speed, would those three seconds be too late?
> Anyway, I gotta head out, people. Guess we'll pick it up again tomorrow. Gute nacht ^___^


Well then it just depends on how far for a ringout. Actually, considering you didn't specify a playing field, then this takes place in the (if I recall correctly) 100 meter in diameter battledome- Sora will just hit a wall and break out of his stun, then chill up in the stands and wait.


----------



## Densoro (Jan 9, 2009)

=/ Guess it's too late to mention that I've been imagining this in a desert leading to a forest. Though I wonder about breaking Sora through the wall if we go with the arena. Or better yet, tossing him out the door XD
Doom Katon, could you kindly think before you speak? =/ If a giant with obscene strength throws a human, it will be with obscene speed. Unless that human somehow weighs 80 tons >_>;?


----------



## Yoshitsuna (Jan 9, 2009)

BOOK OF KORIDAI LINK WILL BE WINNER YES?

Seriously though, Sora's game feats are majorly impressive, I think he would win if Link has no Book Of Koridai.


----------



## Rashou (Jan 9, 2009)

Referee said:


> =/ Guess it's too late to mention that I've been imagining this in a desert leading to a forest. Though I wonder about breaking Sora through the wall if we go with the arena. Or better yet, tossing him out the door XD
> Doom Katon, could you kindly think before you speak? =/ If a giant with obscene strength throws a human, it will be with obscene speed. Unless that human somehow weighs 80 tons >_>;?



A desert leading to a forest that's how big? Considering your average size of forests and deserts, it easily be at least a kilometer of fighting range. I don't see a BFR as a viable tactic at all, unless it's really teleportation to a completely different area. Even if it was a viable tactic, Dante or Sora would be much more likely to pull it off in the opening parts of the match- Sora punts Link like the 200+ ton building he punts and Xemnas, but Link flies much farther at much faster speeds due to his lack of mass, and Dante could fly over and pick either of them up and instantly take them towards stratosphere from no more than mountain level (actually, when he faced Mundus he ended up in outer space in seconds when he was supposedly beneath the Earth in hell...)


----------



## Densoro (Jan 9, 2009)

I was imagining something like the Bullblin camps in Twilight Princess, just with more trees nearby. And, of course, no Bullblins.
And the opening phase of the battle would be taken up by Link putting on his cape, so unless gameplay Sora gets in there and punts him _really really_ fast, he wouldn't make it. I suppose he could try punting any of the clones, too, but then he'd only beat down one of them.
o___O Huh. In DMC canon, is Hell physically under Earth? I always imagined it was another dimension or something. Like Link phasing into the Darkworld.

Random side note because I don't feel like sending a PM, care to log in? XD


----------



## Rashou (Jan 9, 2009)

Sora can use a Trinity limit to, gameplay wise, Instantly close the distance between himself and Link (while comboing him for a long while), then after that combo ends punt him. As for Hell's location, it seems to reside in a different dimension, but apparently you can physically enter and exit it by going under ground and above ground. Either way, the cutscene before Mundus' fight took place maybe in the clouds, but a few second Later Dante was in space- suggesting he reached speeds of at least 11 km/s at one point in time during his flight (escape velocity).

((Just added you in MSN, but I'm gonna grab a bite to eat now so I'll talk later)).


----------



## Densoro (Jan 9, 2009)

Hm...It all comes down to whether or not Link can pull up his cape in about half a second. Any later and the lag of Trinity Limit's first attack is over with. Though I wonder about blocking it with his shield.
Also, I'd forgotten that o__O Dante hauled some serious ass.


----------



## Stroev (Jan 9, 2009)

Xehanort said:


> Now I see how Referee does this, he just makes up random strategies to make this go on forever, no wonder this is 29 pages long.


lolno.

And Link isn't just fighting Sora. If Dante manages to do something that hinders Sora, Link just follows up.


----------



## Supertails (Jan 9, 2009)

A random thing I'd thought up, when Link went Giant, couldn't he just strangle Sora to death?  xD


----------



## the box (Jan 9, 2009)

sora has fought giants and beatin them


----------



## Densoro (Jan 9, 2009)

And Link has fought kids with swords and beaten them. Yay generalizations!
Now let's deal with things on a case-by-case basis! =O


----------

