# Tsunade vs Minato



## joshhookway (May 2, 2013)

SOM: Tsunade is BL
Distance: 50 Meters
Location: Sannin battlefield
Restrictions: Death God
Knowledge: Manga

Minato has 20 Kunai and doesn't have any anywhere to start.


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## Quikdraw7777 (May 2, 2013)

Ei, with his Raiton Armor, tried to blitz Minato and he was *still*  fast enough to dodge that and execute a very solid counterattack.

Tsunade, being noticeably slower - would get raped. It would take longer for her to die due to her regnerative jutsu, sure. However, she's not fast enough to evade a decapitation from a surpise Hairaishin through either a Kunai, or applied seal on her body.

She has no area of effect jutsu, no genjutsu capabilites, or any type of defenses that could null his jutsu.

Minato takes this home *2/10*  difficulty.

Bloodlusted or not, she's going to have a hell of a time making contact.


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## tanman (May 2, 2013)

Minato doesn't seem to have anything in the way of stamina problems, but Tsunade shows clear exhaustion in her matches. That's what will likely doom her in this match. I don't know how well chakra kunais will work on Tsunade, but she'll definitely have to use her ability.


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## FlamingRain (May 2, 2013)

I think Minato's the more dangerous fighter but not so much that he's completely out of the Sannin's league where they couldn't put up a fight, and I don't think he has the tools to actually kill her (similar to what I believe about Orochimaru).

Byakugo makes her pretty much invulnerable to Kunai and Rasengan. In the case of Rasengan there's a chance she could pull a Kabuto and strike in the time its grinding into her/before she gets repulsed by the technique exploding.

With her herculean strength she could also screw with Minato and mess up his seal placements by causing shockwaves and rupturing the earth (in a similar fashion to how KN4 dispersed Mandara no Jin).

The problem is. . .if he opts for repeating Kunai strikes instead of Rasengan, she can't actually land the strike she needs to on him. However, he hasn't shown as much stamina as she has- being able to heal a village twice over, fight for hours while healing and handing out chakra to other Kages, etc.

So I'll say the Fifth Hokage defeats the Fourth more often than not either by lucky tap during Rasengan grinding or outlasting him. Very high difficulty.


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## raizen28 (May 2, 2013)

Rasengan Blows off her Face or a Limb 
Minato Rapes hard in BL


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## Rocky (May 2, 2013)

There will be no "lucky tap" here. His attacks are too quick for that. Now if he's knows of her regeneration  and her head really is her weak point, then yes he wins this without difficulty. If not, he may be in trouble. 

He is far stronger, but she is a good match-up I suppose. Though she's going to get blitzed rapidly and repeatedly here, and that could drain her reserves quickly.


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## Sans (May 2, 2013)

Minato has reacted to Kamui at close and escaped via Hiraishin.

I find it incredibly unlikely that Tsunade will strike him before he can evade.


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## FlamingRain (May 2, 2013)

I didn't say it was _probable_, I said there was a _chance_.

His standard strikes are too quick for such a tactic yes, but I only brought up the idea because Rasengans themselves don't instantly blast people away.

Minato is faster than the other Rasengan users we've seen, but does that make his Rasengan blow up any quicker?

If he uses Hiraishin to get out of the way before it blows up, well. . .he's just wasting his chakra.

I will say that I was thinking about how the swirls of chakra might make it hard to actually see Tsunade move her hand (hard to dodge what you can't see, and it seemed like it would have been kind of hard to see it when Kabuto did it), but having looked at Minato's Rasengan again, there are no wild swirls for that to be a problem. . .


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## Bonly (May 2, 2013)

Only way for Tsunade to win is if she has Byakugo up and Minato having no knowledge on it and she luckily hits Minato after being hit and playing dead. Tsunade has no other chance of winning as Minato is too fast for her to hit and Minato's no slouch in the stamina department either.


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## Jad (May 2, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> I think Minato's the more dangerous fighter but not so much that he's completely out of the Sannin's league where they couldn't put up a fight, and I don't think he has the tools to actually kill her (similar to what I believe about Orochimaru).
> 
> Byakugo makes her pretty much invulnerable to Kunai and Rasengan. In the case of Rasengan there's a chance she could pull a Kabuto and strike in the time its grinding into her/before she gets repulsed by the technique exploding.
> 
> ...



I think you're possibly the only person I have ever seen, in all my lifetime on this forum and others, to have said Tsunade wins against Minato. Not even hard core Tsunade fans say she can beat Minato.

I don't see her ever landing a hit on Minato, ever. Not even the wind from her punches will hit him.


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## FlamingRain (May 2, 2013)

It isn't like I said she's stronger than Minato. (I said the opposite actually) But matchups, to me at least, are just as important as overall strength.

Without the little Rasengan grinding period stuff, I don't see her hitting him either. Until he gets worn out of course, which I think he would before she did.

And I figured most people would come in and say the Fourth stomps. . .would have been boring not to say something.


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## Sans (May 3, 2013)

In the manga, Minato would probably win by unveiling new fuinjutsu that bypasses Tsunade's medical jutsu.

Minato's hype has been almost mythical, and he's simply been placed too far above Tsunade for her to have a chance. By feats only, I think you have an argument at least, but inside the manga? Tsunade cannot win this fight.


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## Ersa (May 3, 2013)

Even by feats Minato stomps.

He's at least 2 tiers higher by feats/author portrayal.

Regen will mean jack shit if he tags her then launches a Odoma-level Rasengan into her head. Even if she survives that, Tsunade is not landing a hit on Minato. Period.


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## Jad (May 3, 2013)

What's stopping Minato immediately slicing her in two with a Kunai much like he did to the Hachibi's tentacle (as he was going to attempt with Ei) [1]? Plus I doubt she is more durable than those tentacles that weren't blown off or shrivled after taking a Bijuudama [2].


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## FlamingRain (May 3, 2013)

Komnenos said:


> *In the manga, Minato would probably win by unveiling new fuinjutsu that bypasses Tsunade's medical jutsu.*
> 
> Minato's hype has been almost mythical, and he's simply been placed too far above Tsunade for her to have a chance. By feats only, I think you have an argument at least, but inside the manga? Tsunade cannot win this fight.



This honestly came into mind when I saw this thread, I also see that as being what would happen were this fight to occur in the manga. But I dont think we can just grant him such jutsu here can we?

I've debated how big the gap in portrayal between Minato and the Sannin is before in the SM Naruto vs. Minato thread. I don't think it is so big that Minato wouldn't have a real fight on his hands before winning.


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## Godaime Tsunade (May 3, 2013)

Minato is revered as a genius, the greatest of his generation, and the fastest man alive. Tsunade is said to be the greatest medic, the strongest kunoichi, and unable to die in battle. They're both on equal-enough terms if you ask me.

Now with manga knowledge Minato knows Tsunade is a good medic, and has super strength, though he doesn't actually know any of her techniques _[besides generic things like shosen, or chakra scalpel]_. Tsunade on the other hand knows Minato teleports using kunai, and can use the rasengan. It is possible that from the outset Tsunade will use Katsuyu divisions to destroy any hiraishin tags that Minato throws, though with his contract seal that tactic may be short-lived. At best she can destroy half of his kunai with a large AoE attack, but that doesn't help her much in the long run.

Minato's biggest threat will be getting close to her, because initially he's going to throw rasengans, and as FlamingRain mentioned, there's every chance she could land a brief tap or a poke during that time. Minato's attack is quite large, and creates a lot of noise and damage to the surroundings, I would be surprised if he took notice of Tsunade's arm moving slightly, and certainly I would be even more surprised if he expected her to be resilient enough to continue using her super strength whilst taking such a damaging blow. So, he could die here, since he has no memorable durability feats.

Though his ability to chop her head off with a kunai _[albeit absolutely ridiculous and something that would never happen in the manga]_ is still something he can theoretically achieve, and as far as we know she can't recover from that.

Without full knowledge Tsunade hitting him while he lands a rasengan seems likely, but this probably wouldn't happen in the manga since Minato is wanked by Kishimoto almost as much as Itachi.​​


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## FlamingRain (May 3, 2013)

Dealing with Katsuyu would be more thanks to Hiraishin would it not?

Tsunade doesn't put Katsuyu under a genjutsu when she summons like Obito did Kurama.

The seal doesn't make the summon disappear, it breaks the summoner's control over it, but Katsuyu's an actual friend, she'd still try and help before she's warped away.

If Katsuyu has already split by the time Minato is ready to warp it after landing the contract seal, it could take a while to get rid of. Cuz that's a lot of warping he's going to be doing.


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## Quikdraw7777 (May 3, 2013)

To say Tsunade wouldn't get blitzed, is just being silly.
Pre-timeskip, Kabuto matched her in CQC speed........*Kabuto*.


Ei, whom is already fast, had his synapses boosted from his Raiton armor, and he still couldn't react to Minato's counterattack, prompting Bee to save his ass from getting skewered.

I'm confident in saying that Tsunade wouldn't even catch a glimpse of Minato once he goes on the offensive.


Her death is either decapitation or a kunai straight through the heart.


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## FlamingRain (May 3, 2013)

Let's not get it twisted now. A Kabuto who had amped himself up with ninja steroids admitted inferiority to an exhausted, more than 20 years out of practice and out of shape Tsunade with hemophobia. The Tsunade that fought Madara would crush Kabuto's skull with absolutely zero difficulty.

I don't see where anybody said Minato couldn't blitz though.


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## Godaime Tsunade (May 3, 2013)

And a kunai to the heart isn't doing crap to her. Blatant underestimation.​​


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## Rocky (May 3, 2013)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Though his ability to chop her head off with a kunai _[albeit absolutely ridiculous and something that would never happen in the manga],_​​



Heads have rolled in the Manga before....


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## Godaime Tsunade (May 3, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Heads have rolled in the Manga before....



Like . . twice. Characters almost never try and chop off each others heads. Against Tsunade, regardless of the fact that that chopping her head off could potentially kill her, her enemies never aim for it. They always stab her in the chest/stomach/abdomen or plainly cut her in half if they want to kill her, and whenever she survives she shocks her foe because she " can't die in battle ". The minute someone chops of her head and renders her regeneration useless all of that hype would be nullified, and she'd look like a hypocrite - which is why it would never happen in the manga.​​


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## Legend777 (May 3, 2013)

Rasengan to the head not enough to kill her ?

Then how about Minato summoning Bunta , asking him to toss up the sword and warp it right on to her ? Or Summoning Bunta right on top of her ?

Also a big fucking LOL@ Tsunade even scratching Minato who whooped the ass of the someone who is leagues faster than Tsunade.

Feats, hype and portrayal point to Minato stomping Tsunade .


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## Godaime Tsunade (May 3, 2013)

Tsunade could one-shot Bunta, so I don't see trying to inflict physical damage with him to be a good idea. If he summons him on top of her - no biggie, she lifts him off of her, punches him, and then regenerates. 

As for Bunta's tanto, if Minato tried warping it on top of her she could either punch it away or dodge it. Besides, Tsunade has a summon of her own to deal with Bunta, so I doubt he'll be a factor here.

Honestly, the only way Minato kills her is chopping her head off.​​


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## αce (May 3, 2013)

So Minato is going to sit there and watch her do that to Bunta? Seems unlikely.


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## Legend777 (May 3, 2013)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> . If he summons him on top of her - no biggie, she lifts him off of her, punches him, and then regenerates.​




So she can survive getting crushed by a boss sized summon summoned right on top of her ?

Good to know.



Godaime Tsunade said:


> As for Bunta's tanto, if Minato tried warping it on top of her she could either punch it away or dodge it. .



So she can dodge/punch away the sword warped right back on to a Hirashin tag without getting injured ?

Truly Interesting.



Godaime Tsunade said:


> Besides, Tsunade has a summon of her own to deal with Bunta, so I doubt he'll be a factor here.



Yeah but not when she is crushed underneath Bunta.



Godaime Tsunade said:


> Honestly, the only way Minato kills her is chopping her head off



Which he can't despite being perfectly capable of . Atleast that's what I can understand from your previous posts.​


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## Godaime Tsunade (May 3, 2013)

αce said:


> So Minato is going to sit there and watch her do that to Bunta? Seems unlikely.



Its not like its going to take very long, and since Minato doesn't have much knowledge on her I doubt he's going to expect her to even be able to move afterwards. 

If he does somehow remain completely unphased by her surprising feat, then he at least has Katsuyu to deal with, who distracts him long enough for her to get Bunta off.



Legend777 said:


> So she can survive getting crushed by a boss sized summon summoned right on top of her ?
> 
> Good to know.



She survived a village falling on her, so yes, a toad jumping on her isn't that problematic.




> So she can dodge/punch away the sword warped right back on to a Hirashin tag without getting injured ?
> 
> Truly Interesting.



Umm, what? Minato will teleport Bunta's tanto from an unspecified location, to above Tsunade, and since its just going to fall via. gravity she's going to have no real difficulty dodging. I'm not sure what you mean by " dodge/punch away the sword warped right back on to a Hirashin tag "





> Yeah but not when she is crushed underneath Bunta.



She's only going to be there for all of two seconds, so your point holds no merit.



> Which he can't despite being perfectly capable of . Atleast that's what I can understand from your previous posts.



Then you have failed to understand my posts.​​


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## FlamingRain (May 3, 2013)

Yatai Kuzushi results in an uppercut that leads to a dead Bunta. Not sure how Minato will prevent Tsunade from doing it when she's on the opposite side of the toad. . .out of his eyesight.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (May 3, 2013)

> So she can survive getting crushed by a boss sized summon summoned right on top of her ?
> 
> Good to know.



In all seriousness you should know that a super duper strength person doesn't give much concern to heavy objects falling on them.  It's like saying Superman should be concerned if you drop a building on them.



> To say Tsunade wouldn't get blitzed, is just being silly.
> Pre-timeskip, Kabuto matched her in CQC speed........Kabuto.



Why do people use Tsunade's oldest feats?

Do people walk into a SM Kabuto thread and go, "Did you check out that fight between pre-time skip Kabuto and Itachi and Sasuke?  How was he even keeping up when that Sound Genin hit him during the chunin exam?  *Naruto* of all people caught him with a rasengan, and we all know can't even properly make an academy bunshin!"  

Jokes aside, the fight starts at 50 meters.  Minato isn't going to shunshin her head off at match start, but in engagement she isn't going to be touching him.



> Like . . twice. Characters almost never try and chop off each others heads.



Minato is the exception, in that he does IC chop off heads.  

There's a bit of weirdness here, in that Kusunagi didn't cut into Tsunade's bones, so a kunai shouldn't work.  However a raiton flowed Kusunagi also bounced off Ei's neck because of RnY, but Minato was supposedly going to cut through Ei's RnY and body with a normal kunai.  

I don't know how that works, because that line of reasoning implies that Minato's normal kunai swing is superior to a chidori flowed Kusunagi, and that seems too silly to accept.  Though if we don't accept that, Ei and Bee and Minato were all pretending a totally ineffectual attack was going to be a game ender, and that's also completely silly.


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## Godaime Tsunade (May 3, 2013)

When has he ICly tried to chop off heads?

And yeh, its just an inconsistency PoW, its almost impossible to apply reasoning to something like that.​​


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## FlamingRain (May 3, 2013)

I can't prove it, but I think Minato may have been flowing Futon chakra into his blade. Futon > Raiton, and Minato was trying to merge his Futon with the Rasengan before he died iirc.


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## Rocky (May 3, 2013)

Minato would chop off her head if he had no other choice. That's originally why I said she had a chance, as he has to figure out he has no other choice by fighting her, thus facing her regeneration & strength without knowledge. 

Though I'm fairly sure everyone can admit Minato's the stronger of the two and he is going to win this more times than not. It's just that she's a big counter to his "kill you with a Kunai before you can react" style of fighting. If he had knowledge, he'd probably go right for the neck and decimate just because she's too slow (not hating on Tsunade here people, even Ei wasn't fast enough). But without any prior information, there is that slim chance that she could surprise him with _something_ while he figures out her abilities. 


Basically, this isn't the same kind of stomp as Obito vs. Dosu, but Minato is the victor without much difficulty many more times than not.


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## Godaime Tsunade (May 3, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Minato would chop off her head if he had no other choice. That's originally why I said she had a chance, as he has to figure out he has no other choice by fighting her, thus facing her regeneration & strength without knowledge.
> 
> Though I'm fairly sure everyone can admit Minato's the stronger of the two and he is going to win this more times than not. It's just that she's a big counter to his "kill you with a Kunai before you can react" style of fighting. If he had knowledge, he'd probably go right for the neck and decimate just because she's too slow (not hating on Tsunade here people, even Ei wasn't fast enough). But without any prior information, there is that slim chance that she could surprise him with _something_ while he figures out her abilities.
> 
> ...




There's no doubt Minato is generally the stronger shinobi, but having little-no knowledge on Tsunade is always going to fuck you over, so he still faces the risk of being hit while he lands a rasengan on her [something thats very likely, if you ask me]. I think he'll die, or almost die there and then. 

Otherwise I agree with everything you've said though. By feats, and feats only, if he's still alive to realise rasengan was a stupid idea, and after repeated failed assaults at impaling her, he'll eventually chop off her head.​​


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## goldendriger (May 3, 2013)

Question 1- 
Can Minato see? If yes, see question 2.
Question 2- 
Can Minato move? 

If the answer to 1 + 2 is "Yes" he rapes.

What can Tsunade do to him? Her attacks are too slow to hit him so she'll get tired. And she has to activate her regeneration, which lets say takes 1 second. That is 0.9999999999999999999 seconds too slow against Minato who can kick your ass before you can even draw a Kunai.


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## blk (May 3, 2013)

Minato wins very easily.

Even assuming that he has no knowledge of Tsunade's regenerative capabilities and fail at killing her with his first attacks, she cannot hit him: with Hirashin he'll warp away when Tsunade will be about to counter-attack.

So, after having realized that she has an outstanding regeneration, Minato will just stab her in the skull and end the match.


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## FlamingRain (May 3, 2013)

blk said:


> So, after having realized that she has an outstanding regeneration, Minato will just stab her in the skull and end the match.



This is a world of magical ninjas who survive things that they shoudn't be able to and we're talking abut a woman with exceptional resilience even compared to the majority of the verse. Byakugo's regeneration isn't going to be dealt with by hitting Tsunade in the head.

If Sasori can survive without a brain and the vast majority of his organs, and Jiraiya can survive with his throat crushed and his back impaled, Tsunade of all people is most likely going to be able to regenerate damage done to her head. Kishimoto did not hype up the jutsu so much for it to have such a blatant weakness. If where she was hit was a factor, we wouldn't have statements like "she cannot die in battle while the technique is active"; yeah it may be hyperbole but it's still enough to know that we shouldn't expect anyone's kunai to kill her. The technique's manga given limit is running out of stamina.

So to defeat the immensely powerful regenerative Byakugo an immensely powerful offensive jutsu will be required, such as a Bijuudama- that disintegrates, Goemon or Amaterasu- which stick to what they strike and burn continuously, or Kamui- which warps away its targets.

A kunai just does not fit into that category. Ever.


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## Kaiser (May 3, 2013)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> When has he ICly tried to chop off heads?
> 
> And yeh, its just an inconsistency PoW, its almost impossible to apply reasoning to something like that.​​


He went for the head against the Iwa fodder who was using Kage Bunshins, against A and against Bee, so basically in almost all his fights


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## blk (May 3, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> This is a world of magical ninjas who survive things that they shoudn't be able to and we're talking abut a woman with exceptional resilience even compared to the majority of the verse. Byakugo's regeneration isn't going to be dealt with by hitting Tsunade in the head.
> 
> If Sasori can survive without a brain and the vast majority of his organs, and Jiraiya can survive with his throat crushed and his back impaled, Tsunade of all people is most likely going to be able to regenerate damage done to her head. Kishimoto did not hype up the jutsu so much for it to have such a blatant weakness. If where she was hit was a factor, we wouldn't have statements like "she cannot die in battle while the technique is active"; yeah it may be hyperbole but it's still enough to know that we shouldn't expect anyone's kunai to kill her. The technique's manga given limit is running out of stamina.
> 
> ...



Sasori is a special case, he literally became a puppet, you cannot compare him to Tsunade who has an human body (or are you suggesting that Tsunade can survive if her whole body, except the heart, is pulverized?).

Jiraya died, actually.
Further, the throat is a thing, the head is another.

Your interpretation of what Kishi wants to portray is subjective and therefore not usable as evidence, thus of no importance.

Show me Tsunade surviving to decapitation or a cut in the brain.


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## αce (May 3, 2013)

Even if you're in support of the already ridiculous notion that Tsunade can regenerate her head and brain - someone please elaborate on why Minato would simply sit there and let that happen. Unless of course you also think that she can regenerate her entire fucking head instantaneously.

I wouldn't be surprised since the initial argument is already comical.


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## Elite Uchiha (May 3, 2013)

I don't care if you haven't fought in one hundred years. No way in hell you should lose to Pre Skip Kabuto


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## FlamingRain (May 3, 2013)

blk said:


> Sasori is a special case, he literally became a puppet, you cannot compare him to Tsunade who has an human body (or are you suggesting that Tsunade can survive if her whole body, except the heart, is pulverized?).
> 
> Jiraya died, actually.
> Further, the throat is a thing, the head is another.
> ...



Tsunade is a Senju/Uzumaki hybrid, she is also a "special case". _Human_ Sasori had to survive the procedure to become a puppet. To become a puppet he had to get rid of everything else in order to even transfer his heart. It stayed alive long enough to be put in a canister and hooked up to another body (amazingly still retaining Sasori's conscious, so is chakra a ninja's conscious?).

He stayed alive _long enough_ to have lived _if he could regenerate_ like Tsunade can.

All of our opinions are subjective. We only use "evidence" to show _why_ we have the opinions that we do. My "evidence"for what jutsu can do is simply hype and author intent rather than feats. Which is why I don't believe that such an obvious solution as "go for the head" will succeed when it's been stated someone "can't die". I stand where I do on this because I can't see a kunai as an overwhelming offense no matter whose hand it is in.

Why shouldn't she survive? Humans irl can survive cuts to the brain, I have an uncle who had his brain stabbed during the Vietnam War. A body can remain functional for a few seconds after decapitation, too, according to molecular biologists such as Francis Crick. There was also an infant born without a brain that managed to live for a bit.

Byakugo repairs in mere seconds. . . . 

@ace: Think of her like a chicken and the rest of her body will work long enough for the head to grow back. . I think Minato, or anyone, would sit there and go "what the actual hell" if it started growing back.


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## Godaime Tsunade (May 3, 2013)

Blake said:


> He went for the head against the Iwa fodder who was using Kage Bunshins, against A and against Bee, so basically in almost all his fights



He sliced that Iwa nin's throat, he didn't chop off his head. And against Bee and Ei he tried to stab them, not chop off their heads.



Elite Uchiha said:


> I don't care if you haven't fought in one hundred years. No way in hell you should lose to Pre Skip Kabuto



Even if Rikudou fucking Sennin had a blood phobia in that fight he would've lost. She couldn't move, or use half of her arsenal. Stupid flame is stupid.​​


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## αce (May 3, 2013)

> Even if Rikudou fucking Sennin had a blood phobia in that fight he would've lost


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## Rocky (May 3, 2013)

Yeah GT, I like you but that might be taking it a bit too far.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (May 3, 2013)

αce said:


> Even if you're in support of the already ridiculous notion that Tsunade can regenerate her head and brain - someone please elaborate on why Minato would simply sit there and let that happen. Unless of course you also think that she can regenerate her entire fucking head instantaneously.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised since the initial argument is already comical.



Her Byako is hyped by Madara to be the same as Hashirama's healing, and it's canon that nobody believes in Hashirama's jutsu and abilities anymore because they're completely ridiculous by magical ninja standards.


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## FlamingRain (May 3, 2013)

.


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## αce (May 3, 2013)

And? Hashirama wouldn't survive getting his head lopped off.


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## Rocky (May 3, 2013)

The fairy tale hype doesn't apply to every single technique Hashirama possesses.


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## Puddin Pie (May 3, 2013)

Tsunade may have strength, but Minato is too fast for her to hit him. Minato takes this


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## Godaime Tsunade (May 3, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Yeah GT, I like you but that might be taking it a bit too far.



It was a hyperbole, jeez.

The point is any old haxosaurus rex could come along and all Kabuto would have to do is show some blood, and he would win the match. Tsunade losing to him means nothing since she was beating him with half of her arsenal restricted before that.​​


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## Jad (May 3, 2013)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Honestly, the only way Minato kills her is chopping her head off.​​



Or Slicing her in half and teleporting her body to another location.


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## Rocky (May 3, 2013)

I understand. That fight shouldn't really be used anyway, considering she was gimped (rusty) like the other Sannin.


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## Godaime Tsunade (May 3, 2013)

Jad said:


> Or Slicing her in half and teleporting her body to another location.



This is about as likely as Tsunade summoning Katsuyu, lifting her and using her as a bat. But sure, its a _possible_ way that he could kill her ​​


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## Jad (May 3, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> This is a world of magical ninjas who survive things that they shoudn't be able to and we're talking abut a woman with exceptional resilience even compared to the majority of the verse. Byakugo's regeneration isn't going to be dealt with by hitting Tsunade in the head.
> 
> If Sasori can survive without a brain and the vast majority of his organs, and Jiraiya can survive with his throat crushed and his back impaled, Tsunade of all people is most likely going to be able to regenerate damage done to her head. Kishimoto did not hype up the jutsu so much for it to have such a blatant weakness. If where she was hit was a factor, we wouldn't have statements like "she cannot die in battle while the technique is active"; yeah it may be hyperbole but it's still enough to know that we shouldn't expect anyone's kunai to kill her. The technique's manga given limit is running out of stamina.
> 
> ...



You don't understand, he leaves the Kunai in her head.

You keep saying "If Kishi didn't hype this technique so much", Kishi has had a butt load of times to show the merit of her regenration, being caught in these flames [1], or had her head or brain chopped. Something along the lines, instead it hasn't.

What people have started to do is give the technique a no limit fallacy when the author hasn't even made his choice yet on the matter, or shown us.


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (May 3, 2013)

I think it may be feasible that she survives being stabbed in the head [though doing so would be difficult since the skull is tough to puncture]. If so, then she just rips it out and regenerates. However, I'm very skeptical of a severed head.​​


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (May 3, 2013)

Jad said:


> You don't understand, he leaves the Kunai in her head.
> 
> You keep saying "If Kishi didn't hype this technique so much", Kishi has had a butt load of times to show the merit of her regenration, being caught in these flames [1], or had her head or brain chopped. Something along the lines, instead it hasn't.



Her arms were lit on fire by a jutsu Madara intended to kill the Gokage.  She said ow and healed instantly saying she was okay.


----------



## Jad (May 3, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Her arms were lit on fire by a jutsu Madara intended to kill the Gokage.  She said ow and healed instantly saying she was okay.



No, her arms were burned, not LIT on fire. Being lit on fire is actually having a coat of fire around your arms burning.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (May 3, 2013)

Jad said:


> No, her arms were burned, not LIT on fire. Being lit on fire is actually having a coat of fire around your arms burning.



Look at the panels.  That stuff around them is fire, not the aura of her fighting spirit.


----------



## FlamingRain (May 3, 2013)

I'll say I didn't consider him leaving it in her head but my response would be the same as him just stabbing her and taking it out- I think that's too blatant and easy a weakness to be the solution.

I don't see why that Katon would be much different than _Ryuuen Houka no Jutsu_, the burns would cover more of her but they would still heal.

I'm not giving it a no-limits fallacy as I gave some examples of what I think would deal with it. Granted those aren't the only things I think could deal with it, a kunai headshot is not on my list of anti-_Byakugo no Jutsu._

EDIT: Dang. TPOW addressed the Katon thing already.


----------



## Jad (May 3, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Look at the panels.  That stuff around them is fire, not the aura of her fighting spirit.



Erm....that's her healing jutsu at work. That's the healling aura, you see it resonating off of her body and head, here, and here


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (May 3, 2013)

Its actually the aura of her chakra regenerating her, PoW.

However, Jad, you're plainly ignoring canon facts if you refute that her technique isn't heavily hyped. Even with her lesser version of Byakugou, Sozou Saisei, Tsunade ie. _Kishimoto_, claimed that she was immortal in battle. This is something the Databook backs up as well. Furthermore, while getting her head cut off probably would kill her, its something that would probably never happen in the manga since even if Kishimoto did decide that she could regrow a head, it would mean her old head would be rolling around on the floor - something that would be way too weird and random for the manga. If he decided that she couldn't regrow a head, then the old and wise Godaime Hokage becomes a hypocrite that doesn't even know the limits of her own jutsu. 

Now, for the purposes of this discussion Minato could chop her head off and kill her, but I don't see it ever happening in the manga.​​


----------



## Rocky (May 3, 2013)

In the Manga Kishimoto would give Minato a new technique to bypass Tsunade's regeneration.


----------



## αce (May 3, 2013)

Minato was about to shove a Kunai into someone's spine without even having a second thought. I'm fairly sure he'd be willing to cut her head off if it came to it. Kakashi aimed for Pain's head without a second thought as well.

These are ninja we are talking about. Not prancing ponies.


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (May 3, 2013)

Rocky said:


> In the Manga Kishimoto would give Minato a new technique to bypass Tsunade's regeneration.



^ Now that I can agree with.

#wegotthereintheend

@Yes ace, its not that shinobi never try and chop off each others heads [if they have no other option, then of course they would] but the point is that it would be unlikely for someone to chop off Tsunade's head while she has Byakugou activated because she either regrows another head while her old one rolls about, or she becomes a hypocrite who doesn't understand the limits of her own jutsu. Either scenario is weird and unlikely to happen, which is why I say in the manga, it would be more likely that he asspulls some new technique and beats her; like Rocky said.
​​


----------



## Jad (May 3, 2013)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> ^ Now that I can agree with.
> 
> #wegotthereintheend
> ​​



So you will only accept Minato beating Tsunade is with a made up jutsu that doesn't exist. How about we stick with the feats we have.



> or she becomes a hypocrite who doesn't understand the limits of her own jutsu.



Or she was just trying to intimate Orochimaru.


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (May 3, 2013)

For the _third_ time - for the purposes of this discussion, Minato can beat Tsunade by chopping off her head.




			
				Jad said:
			
		

> Or she was just trying to *intimate* Orochimaru.





But . . no, no she wasn't.​​


----------



## Jad (May 3, 2013)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> For the _third_ time - for the purposes of this discussion, Minato can beat Tsunade by chopping off her head.​​



If you accept that happening, then you would have to accept a Kunai being impaled into the brain as a another way to win.


----------



## FlamingRain (May 3, 2013)

Jad said:


> Or she was just trying to intimate Orochimaru.



I could be wrong, but. . .when she said she was immortal, she shouldn't have known about Orochimaru's quest for immortality should she? I thought she would have only known about his obsession with ninjutsu.


----------



## Quikdraw7777 (May 3, 2013)

Rocky said:


> In the Manga Kishimoto would give Minato a new technique to bypass Tsunade's regeneration.





He doesn't need anything else.
Its already been established that she is getting blitzed and decapitated.

The fact that she's slower than Ei already puts her well into the hole. When Minato learns that she won't die by conventional means, he's going to start aiming specifically for vitals.

I don't care how impressive her regenerative abilities are, a bladed weapon straight into her brain means goodnight, princess.


----------



## Jad (May 3, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> I could be wrong, but. . .when she said she was immortal, she shouldn't have known about Orochimaru's quest for immortality should she? I thought she would have only known about his obsession with ninjutsu.



No, not tease him, just intimate him like, "I will keep fighting and nothing you will do can kill me..........until 5 minutes when my jutsu runs out......or you chop off one of my hands before I can activate the jutsu again"


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## Godaime Tsunade (May 3, 2013)

Jad said:


> If you accept that happening, then you would have to accept a Kunai being impaled into the brain as a another way to win.



. . this is the last time I'm repeating myself.

a) The skull is very hard, there's no guarantee he's going to even be able to stab it with a kunai.

b) In a world where she can survive for a long period of time with no legs and most of her guts and blood spilled all over a tree, where her spine is severed, and where her entire body is crushed under a village-busting gravity blast, I believe its entirely possible that she survives having a knife wedged into her brain.

It may be worth noting that if we're really getting bogged down into real-life science, there was a child who was born with nothing but a brain stem and survived for three years, and there are a few cases of chickens living without a head. A damaged brain isn't beyond saving for the woman who can apparently cure anything.



Jad said:


> No, not tease him, just intimate him like, "I will keep fighting and nothing you will do can kill me..........until 5 minutes when my jutsu runs out......or you chop off one of my hands before I can activate the jutsu again"



No, she said she couldn't die . . because she couldn't die. The Databook then backed her up, and she continued to survive from every attack she ever took using SS/Byakugou after that.​​


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## FlamingRain (May 3, 2013)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> It may be worth noting that if we're really getting bogged down into real-life science, there was a child who was born with nothing but a brain stem and survived for three years, and there are a few cases of chickens living without a head. A damaged brain isn't beyond saving for the woman who can apparently cure anything.[/indent][/justify]



Unless you mean living for prolonged periods of time, chickens living without a head is pretty common.

And it's freakin' scary to watch those things run around in the yard at night. It terrified me when I was a kid.


----------



## Rocky (May 3, 2013)

Jad said:


> So you will only accept Minato beating Tsunade is with a made up jutsu that doesn't exist. How about we stick with the feats we have.




Here in the Battledome, Tsunade's accepted weakness is loosing her head. Minato would resort to cutting off her head if he had no other choice based on what we know about his character. 

If Kishi were draw the fight and put it in the Manga though...well why would he dehype Tsunade's supposed immortality in battle by having him blitz past her and completely override her insane regeneration? It makes much more sense from a writer's perspective to just give Minato a technique to deal with her, such as a Fuinjutsu or something. That's a much better alternative to allowing the Medical Goddess of the Manga who ran through Susano'o's blades without halting to be defeated by a Kunai.


But we are not Kishi, and since we can't grant Minato abilities, GT conceded in a way to the Kunai to the head thing. Because that's the only way for Minato to win, and she thinks Minato would win.


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## Bonly (May 3, 2013)

Quick question here. Why are we at four pages? It seems that most agree that Minato wins and Tsunade's only chance is a lucky hit soooooooooooooooooooooo why is this at four pages again?


----------



## Jad (May 3, 2013)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> . . this is the last time I'm repeating myself.
> 
> a) The skull is very hard, there's no guarantee he's going to even be able to stab it with a kunai.
> ​




Steel > Skull.

Kimimaro is the one with the Solid Steel Bones, which is hyped as the strongest body. Tsunade is not above Steel.

Cutting off her neck involves cutting a thicker bone than the skull anyways. I mean even Senu's died in the war being impaled by Kuna's and Katana's.



> b) In a world where she can survive for a long period of time with no legs and most of her guts and blood spilled all over a tree, where her spine is severed, and where her entire body is crushed under a village-busting gravity blast, I believe its entirely possible that she survives having a knife wedged into her brain.
> 
> It may be worth noting that if we're really getting bogged down into real-life science, there was a child who was born with nothing but a brain stem and survived for three years, and there are a few cases of chickens living without a head. A damaged brain isn't beyond saving for the woman who can apparently cure anything.



More like her pelvis was destroyed. "Most of her organs" would imply more than 50%.

Sakura was able to stop the bleeding using basic Medical Ninjutsu. The tree stump on top of her _pelvis_ would have stopped excessive bleeding, but her resiliency, very good. Resiliency can only take you so far until it's a Kunai to the face as big as your hand. Stop giving me that Village feat, I am not buying it and it is not giving you any brownie points if you keep posting it time after time after time. A fodder survived it, you say Katsyu protected him, I say it also protected Tsunade. Why? Because she had one hidden in her pocket, and pocket sized Katsyu's were able to protect the villages, as you can see the ones on these shinobi's shoulders [1].

The key word is "born without a brain", meaning it's body adapted to it's absence. You shoot me in the brain see how fast I drop on the floor. Same with Tsunade, her body did not adapt without a brain. The chicken thing, it's a freaking chicken, different anatomy, structure, whatever. Apples and oranges. A damaged brain is going to knock her out cold and I have never seen Mitosis work while not being conscious.



> No, she said she couldn't die . . because she couldn't die. The Databook then backed her up, and she continued to survive from every attack she ever took using SS/Byakugou after that.


​
Kishimoto has avoided her being impaled in the head, obliterate her heart, or chop off a limb, or catch her completely on fire. He has had from the point where Tsunade has been alive till now to show us. And it's not like he has not had the opportunity, he has had MANY.


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## FlamingRain (May 3, 2013)

@ Bonly.

It's because it's turned more into a debate of _how_ he would defeat her rather than _if_ he would defeat her.

I think literally every single poster here agrees Minato is generally the more dangerous/superior fighter.


----------



## Quikdraw7777 (May 3, 2013)

This thread should actually be a ranking poll on what level of difficulty Minato wins at......


^FlamingRain ninja'd me.


----------



## raizen28 (May 3, 2013)

A Type Verbal battle in a Tsunade rape thread is useless
You cant change the way of thought


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (May 3, 2013)

Jad said:


> So you will only accept Minato beating Tsunade is with a made up jutsu that doesn't exist. How about we stick with the feats we have.
> 
> 
> 
> Or she was just trying to intimate Orochimaru.



TsunadexOro OTP


----------



## Final Jutsu (May 3, 2013)

food cart destroyer ends this.  tsunade is a complete joke when pinned against minato.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (May 3, 2013)

Rocky said:


> The fairy tale hype doesn't apply to every single technique Hashirama possesses.



Really?  Because I can't even believe his Rashomon summoning feats, where he summons five and they all dwarf mountain, or his running feat when he crossed mountains in a few panels as he got chased by instant lake crossing bijuudama.  

The smallest ninjutsu I remember is his regular mokuton hands that can catch a perfect Susano blade.  Even his killing intent makes kages quiver.  

About the only thing I've seen him do these past ten chapters that seems normal is slash stuff with his sword, but then I remembered he was sword fighting a guy with EMS sharingan prediction and a fan that casually baps away a blitzing RM Naruto when it's tossed lightly at him.
A swing pushes him back.  And the backdrop had the Kyuubi attacking him.  

So when according to Tsunade and the databook, SS alone breaks the constraint of medical ninjutsu to allow total regeneration, and then I find out Hashirama had it, I'm inclined to say it's not the exception.  Minato still wins though.


----------



## Legend777 (May 4, 2013)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> She survived a village falling on her, so yes, a toad jumping on her isn't that problematic..​​



A village fell on her ? 



Godaime Tsunade said:


> Umm, what? Minato will teleport Bunta's tanto from an unspecified location, to above Tsunade, and since its just going to fall via. gravity she's going to have no real difficulty dodging. I'm not sure what you mean by " dodge/punch away the sword warped right back on to a Hirashin tag "
> 
> 
> .​​



No he teleports the sword right on to the "Hirashin tag" on Tsunade . ( Note : I said Minato would try to use this after realising that rasengan doesn't work ..that means he would've already tagged her )



Godaime Tsunade said:


> She's only going to be there for all of two seconds, so your point holds no merit.
> .​​



She  won't be able to reconstruct her bones against the weight of a boss sized summon . So it does.



Godaime Tsunade said:


> hen you have failed to understand my posts.​​



Doesn't seem so .



The Pirate on Wheels said:


> In all seriousness you should know that a super duper strength person doesn't give much concern to heavy objects falling on them.  It's like saying Superman should be concerned if you drop a building on them.



The difference beaing Superman is extremely durable , Tsunade is not.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (May 4, 2013)

> The difference beaing Superman is extremely durable , Tsunade is not.



Yeah she is.  Senju/Uzumaki body that doesn't get ripped to death by Mabui's teleport.  She also took dianmond cutting kusunagi swings without it cutting into her bones.  Not that's she's superman, but that's pretty good in Naruto.


----------



## blk (May 4, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> Tsunade is a Senju/Uzumaki hybrid, she is also a "special case". _Human_ Sasori had to survive the procedure to become a puppet. To become a puppet he had to get rid of everything else in order to even transfer his heart. It stayed alive long enough to be put in a canister and hooked up to another body (amazingly still retaining Sasori's conscious, so is chakra a ninja's conscious?).
> 
> He stayed alive _long enough_ to have lived _if he could regenerate_ like Tsunade can.



And? Do you even know the tecniques and the processes of this transformation?

Stop with this false analogy, for all we know Sasori might have used a jutsu/ritual that directly transform the body into a puppet.



> All of our opinions are subjective. We only use "evidence" to show _why_ we have the opinions that we do. My "evidence"for what jutsu can do is simply hype and author intent rather than feats. Which is why I don't believe that such an obvious solution as "go for the head" will succeed when it's been stated someone "can't die". I stand where I do on this because I can't see a kunai as an overwhelming offense no matter whose hand it is in.



Interpretation is not classifiable as evidence because it is entirely subjective, you just _assume_ what the hype means. It is, by the very definition of the word, an assumption not an evidence.

Oh, and if i grant this method of reasoning you shouldn't even debate with me because, hey, if assumptions are accepted as evidences then i can think whatever i want and you'll have no way to prove that my position is not justified/less justified.




> Why shouldn't she survive? Humans irl can survive cuts to the brain, I have an uncle who had his brain stabbed during the Vietnam War. A body can remain functional for a few seconds after decapitation, too, according to molecular biologists such as Francis Crick. There was also an infant born without a brain that managed to live for a bit.
> 
> Byakugo repairs in mere seconds. . . .



I'm talking about a deep cut, with a kunai stuck into it.

What is she going to do if decapitated? Take the head, put it in the neck and wait that the skin reattaches itself?

And this is assuming that Minato doesn't simply stop her from regenerating these wounds.


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (May 4, 2013)

Jad said:


> Steel > Skull.
> 
> Kimimaro is the one with the Solid Steel Bones, which is hyped as the strongest body. Tsunade is not above Steel.
> 
> Cutting off her neck involves cutting a thicker bone than the skull anyways. I mean even Senu's died in the war being impaled by Kuna's and Katana's.'



_Stabbing her in the head_ it is highly possible, but completely cracking through her skull and wedging it into her brain is much less likely. That isn't to say its not possible, but its never happened in the manga before. 



> More like her pelvis was destroyed. "Most of her organs" would imply more than 50%.



I said guts, not organs. I was referring to the insides of her stomach, which would have naturally spilled all over a tree. Of course, whenever most of her blood has escaped her body it would be surprising for any of her organs to be still functioning after such a long period of bisection. 



> Sakura was able to stop the bleeding using basic Medical Ninjutsu. The tree stump on top of her _pelvis_ would have stopped excessive bleeding, but her resiliency, very good. Resiliency can only take you so far until it's a Kunai to the face as big as your hand. Stop giving me that Village feat, I am not buying it and it is not giving you any brownie points if you keep posting it time after time after time. A fodder survived it, you say Katsyu protected him, I say it also protected Tsunade. Why? Because she had one hidden in her pocket, and pocket sized Katsyu's were able to protect the villages, as you can see the ones on these shinobi's shoulders [1].



For a start, there was no tree stump on her pelvis - you can see the shadow of the tree _here_, making it evident that the tree is above her, and is merely being used to censor the gore between Tsunade's body and legs. Resiliency took her far enough to survive having most of her guts missing, the organs in her body destroyed, her spine severed, her heart impaled, and her body torn to shreds by a lightning bot [these are all separate scenarios, just so you know]. I'm really dumbfounded as to why you are so absolutely certain that she would die upon having her brain stabbed - all of these other attacks should have certainly killed her, but they didn't. I'm not saying its guaranteed that she will, but there's a great chance, but you deny this completely.

And no Jad, I will continue to use this point until its actually _refuted_. Quoting from the last time:



			
				Godaime Tsunade said:
			
		

> Literally _every single person_ in Konoha had been surrounded by Katsuyu clones - even _dead ones_. There's no reason at all why Tsunade would have assumed that random fodder ANBU could survive being crushed under an entire village's worth of rubble. Use common sense - he was protected off-panel like everyone else. And to be honest, I don't think the feat was much less impressive even though she wasn't hit in the center, she was hit by, and crushed under _gargantuan waves_ of moving rubble that had the force and momentum of the CST behind them. I should add that, Tsunade had been _chasing Pein_ from the  just before he blew up Konoha, and after Konoha had been destroyed we could clearly see that the area Tsunade had been in was amongst the _worst damaged_ in the entire village. Unlike the rest of the village, which had been left in rubble, the area below the Hokage faces was _totally flattened into the crater_.



And if you're really trying to argue that that palm-sized Katsuyu division could surround and protect Ibiki and Tsunade from the CST then . . well . . I don't have much to say to that really.



> The key word is "born without a brain", meaning it's body adapted to it's absence. You shoot me in the brain see how fast I drop on the floor. Same with Tsunade, her body did not adapt without a brain. The chicken thing, it's a freaking chicken, different anatomy, structure, whatever. Apples and oranges. A damaged brain is going to knock her out cold and I have never seen Mitosis work while not being conscious.



Go read up on it yourself, most babies born with the disease don't survive past birth, so there are evidently children that did not adapt. Chickens still have a brain though, and they should die without one. Pulling that " but they're anatomy is different " card doesn't work unless you can prove that chickens' brain anatomy is so different to ours that they theoretically _should_ survive without a head and we shouldn't. Even then, we're getting so bogged down in science that it doesn't even matter anymore - Kishimoto doesn't apply this much logic to his biology/chemistry/physics, evident by the fact that characters can survive with missing organs/extensive bleeding/building buster punches to the face etc.



> Kishimoto has avoided her being impaled in the head, obliterate her heart, or chop off a limb, or catch her completely on fire. He has had from the point where Tsunade has been alive till now to show us. And it's not like he has not had the opportunity, he has had MANY.



He's obliterated most of her other organs, he's had her heart stabbed, he's even had her spine severed [which should cause immediate permanent paralysis]. The fact that he hasn't severed her head just adds merit to my point, its doesn't discredit it - he's unwilling to sever her head because it wouldn't work in the context of her character, or of the manga.



Legend777 said:


> A village fell on her ?



_Yep._




> No he teleports the sword right on to the "Hirashin tag" on Tsunade . ( Note : I said Minato would try to use this after realising that rasengan doesn't work ..that means he would've already tagged her )



Besides the fact that this tactic isn't IC, he wouldn't need to tag her to be able to drop a tanto on her. He can teleport large objects like the Bijuudama with space/time barriers, but again - she just dodges.





> She  won't be able to reconstruct her bones against the weight of a boss sized summon . So it does.



Yes she will. Refer back to gravity blast smashing into her village and said village falling on top of her.​​


----------



## narut0ninjafan (May 4, 2013)

I think Minato wins, but my God, some of you are really underestimating Tsunade. I mean, Food Cart Destroyer killing Tsunade? 

Tsunade has a chance if she gets a counterattack on Minato by surprise.

I hate the "decapitation GG" argument because in most match ups it simply wouldn't happen before Tsunade could react, but Minato is just about the only ninja fast enough to actually have a chance to pull it off. 

So if Minato figures out she can regenerate and succeeds in decapitating her before she gets a counterattack in, he will win. But if she does manage to get a counterattack in, he dies, although in my opinion Minato would probably win more often than not.


----------



## FlamingRain (May 4, 2013)

blk said:


> And? Do you even know the tecniques and the processes of this transformation?
> 
> Stop with this false analogy, for all we know Sasori might have used a jutsu/ritual that directly transform the body into a puppet.



Do we have any reason to believe that's what happened? If that were the case you would think that such a technique would have been touched upon.



> Interpretation is not classifiable as evidence because it is entirely subjective, you just _assume_ what the hype means. It is, by the very definition of the word, an assumption not an evidence.
> 
> Oh, and if i grant this method of reasoning you shouldn't even debate with me because, hey, if assumptions are accepted as evidences then i can think whatever i want and you'll have no way to prove that my position is not justified/less justified.



In the same way that we just _assume_ what a character's feats mean.

Most people probably didn't _assume_ Tsunade would survive being squished in half if they went by feats. Kishi's statement of her "not dying in battle" says she would. And she did. . .



> I'm talking about a deep cut, with a kunai stuck into it.
> 
> What is she going to do if decapitated? Take the head, put it in the neck and wait that the skin reattaches itself?
> 
> And this is assuming that Minato doesn't simply stop her from regenerating these wounds.



Yeah I am too. When a doctor tells you that you may as well have been shot in the head, you think the stab is pretty dang deep. Some people just survive things that logic says they normally shouldn't. Uzumaki/Senjus are those types of people in Narutoverse. Like how wrenching a Bijuu from a host is supposed to be instant death but Kushina survived it _without_ regeneration.

I was picturing another head reforming. Or maybe muscles reaches up from her shoulders/down from her neck to pull back together like Oro's snakes.

I think I said it earlier in the thread. I find it more likely Minato goes "what the actual hell is going on".


----------



## Quikdraw7777 (May 4, 2013)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Yes she will. Refer back to gravity blast smashing into her village and said village falling on top of her.​​




An entire village fell on top of her???
Damn, the Wicked Witch in the Wizard of Oz has nothing on this chick!


But in any case:
Panels of this please, or it didn't happen. 

*@Flaming Rain*
Dawwwwg........if someone's skull gets compressed and slightly punctures the brain, that's enough for a very quick death. If someone plunges a bladed weapon clean throught both cerebrals, or even just one........there is nothing that can be done. The fight would be over between the two.

Even if Tsuande survives said attack, she'll likely be unable to preform even the simplest of actions - such as talking, or moving half of her body. At its worst, she'll be a vegetable.

In any case, resuming the fight with Minato at that point is out of the question. He wins.


----------



## LostSelf (May 4, 2013)

Tsunade's jutsus are a bad matchup for Minato. But the guy has shown to go for the head, knowledge or not and bloodlusted or not. He tried to stab Tobi and Raikage in the head. Also in Killer Bee's head and slashed that fodder shinobi's throat in Kakashi gaiden.

That said, the guy has attempted to decapitate or stab in the head in all his fights shown.

This is the problem here. That a decapitation is more than very likely when it comes to Minato.


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (May 4, 2013)

Go read my last post Quickdraw, I cba posting Pein's destruction of Konoha scan again.

And _TheIronMan_, stabbing in the head or slashing the throat =/= Decapitation. I also don't remember him trying to stab Ei in the head? I do remember him getting above the Raikage and attempting to stab him in the back but, thats it [I could be wrong though].​​


----------



## Quikdraw7777 (May 4, 2013)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Go read my last post Quickdraw, I cba posting Pein's destruction of Konoha scan again.
> 
> And _TheIronMan_, stabbing in the head or slashing the throat =/= Decapitation. I also don't remember him trying to stab Ei in the head? I do remember him getting above the Raikage and attempting to stab him in the back but, thats it [I could be wrong though].​​




I'll give you credit for that....
But how about her getting skewered through one, or even both hemispheres of her brain?

Do you think she can regenerate from such an assault?
Because I find it doubtful when most of her body's basic motor functions will be disabled.


----------



## Elite Uchiha (May 4, 2013)

Wait, when we saw  Tsunade decapitated, she was unable to even move, better yet fight 

So...why even bring it up


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## Godaime Tsunade (May 4, 2013)

Quikdraw7777 said:


> I'll give you credit for that....
> But how about her getting skewered through one, or even both hemispheres of her brain?
> 
> Do you think she can regenerate from such an assault?
> Because I find it doubtful when most of her body's basic motor functions will be disabled.



I've had this argument with someone else, and honestly I just can't be assed repeating myself again, haha. Uh, I'll just quote what I said before I guess.



			
				Godaime Tsunade said:
			
		

> _Stabbing her in the head_ it is highly possible, but completely cracking through her skull and wedging it into her brain is much less likely. That isn't to say its not possible, but its never happened in the manga before.
> 
> ...
> 
> Resiliency took her far enough to survive having most of her guts missing, the organs in her body destroyed, her spine severed, her heart impaled, and her body torn to shreds by a lightning bolt [these are all separate scenarios, just so you know]. I'm really dumbfounded as to why you are so absolutely certain that she would die upon having her brain stabbed - all of these other attacks should have certainly killed her, but they didn't


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## Rocky (May 4, 2013)

Yeah Tsunade performed a summoning while bisected, and this was without Byakugo active. Her spine was completely ruptured....

I've tended to stop applying actual detailed physics and biology in this magical Manga unless Kishi stresses it (like joki boi, for example). It's very unlikely you're going to see Tsunade defeated by a stab wound, no matter where it is. The assumption though is that Tsunade cannot regrow her entire head, so decapitation and that only would work to kill her with Byakugo active. Well, that and being completely erased by a "nuke".


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## LostSelf (May 4, 2013)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> And _TheIronMan_, stabbing in the head or slashing the throat =/= Decapitation. I also don't remember him trying to stab Ei in the head? I do remember him getting above the Raikage and attempting to stab him in the back but, thats it [I could be wrong though].​​



Yeah, you're right. Minato was not aiming for the head. But for the back. However it seems as if Bee attacked before he decided to attack the Raikage.

And you're right again about Slashing the throat =/= decapitacion. But some part of my point still stands. The guy has more panel time aiming for the head/throat than any other part of the body and his Kunais have shown to cut bigger things than her neck, such as the Hachibi's tentacle with ease.

However, how this would fare against someone as durable as Tsunade is unknown. Like many others have said, the only way of winning is trying to hit him in the right moment. But with Minato's Hiraishin and reflexes, i'm leaning more towards him.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (May 4, 2013)

^@ Rocky

Kishi wouldn't create and hype a character as having an ultimate regeneration jutsu and calling them unkillable while active if it could be bested by two seconds of thought and a kunai, and it's obvious he doesn't care much about RL biology when everyone can swap eyeballs and DNA without getting donor rejections, and all the other issues that go with it and why that shouldn't work.  

For all the people who harp on Kishi not showing her surviving decapitation of skull stabbing, they have to answer why he specifically made Tsunade's regeneration run out every time she was about to be killed, instead of having Madara bypass it by harpooning her in the head.  He had lots of opportunity to show Madara do that, but he didn't.  He also didn't have to make Tsunade run out of SS before before she was going to get killed by Asura, but he did, and Asura was going for her head.  

So if what Kishi avoids showing is indicative of the strengths and weaknesses of a jutsu, like they claim, then yes, avoiding showing that damage is indicative of her regeneration's weaknesses, but then avoiding fatal damages coming up while she has her healing capabilities should also be indicative of its strengths.  Meaning Asura's head stab attempt isn't fatal if she has her chakra, and getting bisected wouldn't happen in the first place, or wouldn't put her down if she had Byako.  Those positions contradict though, and it's a can of worms that can be avoided if people just accept that ninja people can do their thing they're supposed to be best at.


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## αce (May 4, 2013)

I can easily turn that around and say that Madara never impaled her in the head due to the obvious fact that there's no plausible situation in which she would have lived and so the specific plot conditions allowed her to live. That argument easily goes both ways.  Madara's decisions are dictated by Kishimoto and especially so in regards to the plot. He isn't some sentient being capable of his own decisions. Hypothetical matches in the battledome differ greatly from what a character would do in the manga. If he wanted Tsunade alive, which he clearly did, shoving a pike through her head wouldn't have been a good course to take. He stabbed her through the torsoe instead of through the head. Obvious plot induced stupidity. If the Kage battle was in the battldome, with no stupid "testing Hashirama's abilities" restrictions and plot induced stupidity then she would have lost her head. 





This entire decapitation argument reeks out ignorance though. Minato _will not_ hesitate to cut someone's head off if that's the only course of action. If Tsunade can regenerate her head (even though she can't), there's no one stupid enough to propose the notion that she can regenerate her entire freaking head instantaneously. Minato won't sit there in awe as it happens as someone else foolishly implied earlier in the thread. Minato isn't getting touched by Tsunade and once he realizes she can regenerate, he's smart enough to realize that regenerating some parts of your body will take much longer than other parts. Minato isn't a ninja out of hello kitty. If decapitation is the only route to take_ he will take it. _


This isn't relevant to _this_ specific match up, but this entire "immortality in battle" crap is getting out of hand. Say someone shaves her legs off from the hip (FRS or something) - okay, yeah, maybe she can regenerate an entire limb (even though I don't think she can) _but she can't freaking walk._ That's an easy time to simply blow her face off. Even if you assume there is no limitation to her regeneration, there is a limit to how much she can accomplish when her limbs are flying through the stratosphere every 2 minutes.


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## Bonly Jr. (May 4, 2013)

Minato obviously wins, here.

She isn't touching him, nor getting a lucky tap. This is Minato, not Kabuto. If he tags her, he's going to teleport behind her and cut her head off. She'd get killed before she thinks about using Byakugo.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (May 4, 2013)

> That argument easily goes both ways.



That's exactly my point.  Both of them are poor arguments because they go both ways.  If you accept one as valid reasoning, you have to accept the other,* because they're both using the same reasoning.*  But then you're accepting two arguments with contradictory outcomes, and that doesn't work.  You can't disqualify one as invalid without disqualifying the other, and then what are you left with?

Character statements, hype, portrayal, and databook entries that all point to a few or no limits cap on the jutsu.  

Which doesn't matter in this match, because Minato will probably just keep killing her until she stays dead, or use one the sealing jutsu we know he has, which is the same way people beat Orochimaru.  (Who, coincidentally, craps out new heads and bodies instantaneously.)


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## Quikdraw7777 (May 4, 2013)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> I've had this argument with someone else, and honestly I just can't be assed repeating myself again, haha. Uh, I'll just quote what I said before I guess.
> ​





Okay....
SO......let's say I agree with you on the notion that she won't die from her brain being impaled.

What is she to do then? Side effects will appear instantly. Like I said before, basic motor functions are pretty much screwed for the duration that the technqiue takes in order to restore her back to mint condition. That's more than enough of an opening for Minato to take her head clean off.

I understand where you're coming from, but I'm very skeptical about people taking direct shots on their brain and prancing around as if nothing even happened.


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## Elite Uchiha (May 5, 2013)

Are there any scans of Tsunade fighting after being decapitated?


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## blk (May 5, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> Do we have any reason to believe that's what happened? If that were the case you would think that such a technique would have been touched upon.



We have no reasons for believe anything, because we don't know anything about Sasori's transformation.

I just proposed one of the countless possible methods (also, i remember that, infact, Sasori did used a tecnique for make a puppet from the third Kazekage's body and others shinobi).

Your argument is simply flawed: Sasori becoming a puppet (with a method that we don't know) is not evidence that Tsunade can survive to certain wounds.



> In the same way that we just _assume_ what a character's feats mean.
> 
> Most people probably didn't _assume_ Tsunade would survive being squished in half if they went by feats. Kishi's statement of her "not dying in battle" says she would. And she did. . .



Feats are hardly subjective, don't even try to equate them to the hype.

Your point? We didn't even assumed that Madara had a giant Susano'o before that PS was unleashed, does it mean that the people that didn't assumed so, were using an invalid argument? Nope.

It's an obvious notion that with new informations we have to change our view, but, again, this doesn't mean that we used invalid arguments _when the other evidences weren't presented yet._




> Yeah I am too. When a doctor tells you that you may as well have been shot in the head, you think the stab is pretty dang deep. Some people just survive things that logic says they normally shouldn't. Uzumaki/Senjus are those types of people in Narutoverse. Like how wrenching a Bijuu from a host is supposed to be instant death but Kushina survived it _without_ regeneration.
> 
> I was picturing another head reforming. Or maybe muscles reaches up from her shoulders/down from her neck to pull back together like Oro's snakes.
> 
> I think I said it earlier in the thread. I find it more likely Minato goes "what the actual hell is going on".



There is always a reason for why something happen: what might lack is knowledge of such motive.
Still, i never heard of someone surviving to a cut in his brain with knife stuck into it, and i'm pretty sure that the 99.99% of the humans would die if you cut/shot them in the head.

Why are false analogies so common in people's arguments? I mean, is not difficult to realize that Kushina surviving to a Bijuu extraction has absolutely nothing to do with Tsunade surviving to decapitation or a cut in the brain.

In the case that you are not trolling: show evidences of Tsunade regrowing her head and/or using the muscle tissue for reach the cutted head and put it in her neck.

When Minato will go for decapitation/brain cut, he will already know about the regeneration.
But even if what you suggest happens, he'll kill her definetly after that his stupor ends.


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## Godaime Tsunade (May 5, 2013)

Quikdraw7777 said:


> Okay....
> SO......let's say I agree with you on the notion that she won't die from her brain being impaled.
> 
> What is she to do then? Side effects will appear instantly. Like I said before, basic motor functions are pretty much screwed for the duration that the technqiue takes in order to restore her back to mint condition. That's more than enough of an opening for Minato to take her head clean off.
> ...



There should be side effects from having your spine severed as well - such as paralysis, but Tsunade was happily moving around swinging strikes while that happened, and once she pulled the sword out of her body her abdomen and spine regenerated immediately. Again, I don't think the same biological rules apply in this manga, especially when it comes to pseudo-immortal Tsunade.

For the purposes of this argument, he can cleave her head off whenever all other options fail - lets just leave it at that.​​


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