# (Goku vs. Superman) vs. (Star Trek vs. Star Wars)



## Endless Mike (Feb 3, 2010)

Which debate has led to more shitstorms and drama on the internet?


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## paulatreides0 (Feb 3, 2010)

ST vs. SW, it has and shall forever be the ULTIMATE nerd shitstorm


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## Darth Nihilus (Feb 3, 2010)

1300+ pages for a forum about ST vs SW

I like those odds


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## Hellspawn28 (Feb 3, 2010)

Goku vs. Superman threads always been awful, and SW vs. ST threads have been bad, but I never seen them to be as awful as Gvs.SM threads though. Gundam vs. Eva threads are pretty awful though.


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## CrazyMoronX (Feb 3, 2010)

I haven't seen too many Star Wars vs Star Trek threads, at least not around here. I'd give it to Goku vs Superman in a landslide, but I can see the former being a nerd shitstorm of epic proportions.


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## Narcissus (Feb 3, 2010)

I'm pretty sure SW vs. ST is the worse one, but I don't know if there is a way to tell for sure. 

Either way, both are bad.


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## Monzaemon (Feb 3, 2010)

Darth Nihilus said:


> 1300+ pages for a forum about ST vs SW



WTF? Really?


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## Hellspawn28 (Feb 3, 2010)

Out of all the SW vs. ST threads I have seen, it been debated that Star Trek would win with comsics like Q on their side. I don't see them as bad as Goku vs. Superman IMO.


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## Darth Nihilus (Feb 3, 2010)

Monzaemon said:


> WTF? Really?



I shit


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## Fang (Feb 3, 2010)

Second page looks like it belongs to DARKSTAR


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## ScreenXSurfer (Feb 3, 2010)

ST vs SW had two boards dedicated to it, and even then there was a massive spillover to another Sci-Fi board. At stardestroyer.net, the Star Wars vs Star Trek sub-forum has 92,341 post.

But that's older generation debate, and is pretty much over (aside from one recent incident). Goku Vs. Superman, due to the nature of comics and different points of view, can go on for a long time.


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## Fang (Feb 3, 2010)

I liked SpaceBattles vs SD.net


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## ScreenXSurfer (Feb 3, 2010)

Was that a topic?


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## Fang (Feb 3, 2010)

No but I think someone a while back said something stupid about SD.net regulars like Wong during a Star Wars vs 40K thread and things got ugly.

Not as bad as when Star Wars was being debated at CBR, but still.


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## ScreenXSurfer (Feb 3, 2010)

Oh yeah I heard about that. Laird, a poster at SB, got a photo of Mike Wong's wife and had photoshopped a monkey pissing on it.

It caused a huge shitstorm.

Finally SB mods, maybe Tron, went on a rampage shut down any topic that discussed other boards and made that a rule.


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## Platinum (Feb 3, 2010)

Star Wars vs Star Trek easily.


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## Lucaniel (Feb 3, 2010)

So, ST vs. SW...who actually wins?


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## Narcissus (Feb 3, 2010)

Should we really open that can of worms Luc?


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## Lucaniel (Feb 3, 2010)

Well, since it was put against Goku vs. Superman (which goes to Superman, I'm fairly sure is the consensus among non-wankers) I thought it was one of those matchups for which the winner is fairly obvious but gets a lot of wankers.

eh, I dunno, you may have a point anyhow


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## Monzaemon (Feb 3, 2010)

I believe Star Wars usually wins when it's purely Federation vs. the Empire.


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## Shadow Replication 1480 (Feb 3, 2010)

Gotta be Star Wars/Star Trek. After watching a Wars fan and a Trekkie yell at each other for 30 minutes after being dragged to see Attack of the Clones, there can simply be no other answer.


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## Fang (Feb 3, 2010)

Star Wars wins because we have military satellite defense programs named after us


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Feb 3, 2010)

ScreenXSurfer said:


> Oh yeah I heard about that. Laird, a poster at SB, got a photo of Mike Wong's wife and had photoshopped a monkey pissing on it.
> 
> It caused a huge shitstorm.
> 
> Finally SB mods, maybe Tron, went on a rampage shut down any topic that discussed other boards and made that a rule.



i remember that....and the wong is wrong essay

plus there was a phase on SB that was so anti..SDN that they had like they'd flame any one that they called a "DOW" and shit

i think they even purposely threw some matches to spite the guys..like i remember one..from Christmas season 05 that had them basically saying things like

"one akira class could take down at least five isds" and shit specifically to raise hell

that was like..the only time i ever Saw SB go that far..i think the mods flipped out after that and started getting on peoples cases

goku vs superman takes it though for being more frequent


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## Narcissus (Feb 3, 2010)

I think the fact that this started to turn into "Star Wars vs Star Trek" rather than "Goku vs. Superman" answers the overall question of the thread.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Feb 3, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> ST vs. SW, it has and shall forever be the ULTIMATE nerd shitstorm



yeah, this

Star Trek vs Star Wars is THE classic nerdrage battle


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## Soledad Eterna (Feb 3, 2010)

But seriously what series wins? I always wondered that.


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## Narcissus (Feb 3, 2010)

Inquiring minds want to know.


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## Endless Mike (Feb 3, 2010)

ScreenXSurfer said:


> Oh yeah I heard about that. Laird, a poster at SB, got a photo of Mike Wong's wife and had photoshopped a monkey pissing on it.
> 
> It caused a huge shitstorm.
> 
> Finally SB mods, maybe Tron, went on a rampage shut down any topic that discussed other boards and made that a rule.



If someone photoshopped a picture of me into an embarrassing situation no one would give a shit. Just goes to show how much clout Mike Wong has.



Narcissus said:


> Inquiring minds want to know.



Ground engagement: SW by far. ST ground forces suck.

Space engagement with conventional forces: Again, SW by far, simply much more firepower, speed, durability, etc.

In an extended war the Empire could destroy pretty much every ST spacefaring power.

The only chance ST really has is the one-shot cosmic beings and random one-hit wonder technologies which are never shown again. Of course the general argument against things like Q is that they're either too unquantifiable to use or they probably wouldn't get involved anyway in character.


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## Glued (Feb 3, 2010)

Star Trek has the Q, the Prophets and some other godlike beings.


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## Fang (Feb 3, 2010)

Considering how the Q have an obsession/particular interest in humans, I don't see them doing anything against the Galactic Empire anyways.


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## Glued (Feb 3, 2010)

The Prophets from ds9 


those weird aliens that completely disabled every klingon and Federation vessel back in the original series.

There was this one guy who wiped out entire species with a single thought back in Next Generation.


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## C. Hook (Feb 3, 2010)

TWF said:


> Considering how the Q have an obsession/particular interest in humans, I don't see them doing anything against the Galactic Empire anyways.



I heard they like popcorn.



Lucaniel said:


> So, ST vs. SW...who actually wins?



Discounting magic/omnipotents... Star Wars. Easily. Hyperdrive alone insures victory.

Counting omnipotents/magic... Star Trek, probably.



Darth Nihilus said:


> I shit



Good God, that trek site has plenty of bullshit.

"Only firing scene with Turbolasers..." Forgetting something? Oh yeah, how about the asteroid scene in Empire Strikes Back, the beginning scene of Star Wars, and the Death Star trench?

And transporters provide a huge advantage? Through SHIELDS? Fucking stupid.

Let's not forget the horribly biased ground combat pages. Seriously, if Stardestroyer is unbiased compared to you, you suck.

Also, I might as well not say it, but Doctor Who>Both.


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## Glued (Feb 3, 2010)

What I'd like to see though is a Ferengi and a Hutt in a game of poker


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Feb 3, 2010)

The Dowd have some seriously heavy fire power

if you wanna judge this accurately let's go by which side has the worse trolls

every single thing said by Moses and phenom and that little site that invaded us recently.

and that one forum that basically was dedicated to giving out "scientific " proof for why goku could bust a multverse destroy..superman 

and why all fan made Af's where canon just distinct multiverses...and why superman would loose..and also why science does not back up his powers

never mind...that a magical monkey alien using spirit energy makes less fucking sense then a kryptonian 

yeah...DBZ wins here

the only thing i can think of..for the ST vs SW side that matches the sheer idiocy of DBZtards

was Darkstar trying to argue that The Federation could defeat Galactus..not only do this but render inert..his powers..and make him not exist...and never letting up or conceding how fucking wrong he was


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## C. Hook (Feb 3, 2010)

Ferengi vs. Hutt ends with the Hutt losing and dropping his opponent into a Rancor pit.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> was Darkstar trying to argue that The Federation could defeat Galactus..not only do this but render inert..his powers..and make him not exist...and never letting up or conceding how fucking wrong he was



Where? I must see this.


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## paiden (Feb 3, 2010)

i now that will be a good battle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## ChINaMaN1472 (Feb 3, 2010)

There are bigger followings of Star Trek and Star Wars over Superman and Dragonball Z, therefore, ST vs SW > Superman vs. Goku.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Feb 3, 2010)

C. Hook said:


> Where? I must see this.



should be on SB or his own forum..or site or what ever the fuck place that crazy lunatic resides at present

another one he supposedly said  a few Q torps would shred threw superman or gladiator..and other crap



ChINaMaN1472 said:


> There are bigger followings of Star Trek and Star Wars over Superman and Dragonball Z, therefore, ST vs SW > Superman vs. Goku.



i think..superman has a bigger following in fact I'm pretty sure there exists no fan following..that supersedes supermans status

especially given he's a cultural icon (although i'd wager sw is one too)...and the single most universally recognized word in the world


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## Soledad Eterna (Feb 3, 2010)

Actually many people just know Superman but are indifferent to him. In fact they only know some of his basic powers and Lex Luthor, they barely know who is Darkseid or Doomsday or many of other Superman's foes.


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## Fang (Feb 3, 2010)

The Dowd are over-rated, some arrogant new poster at SD.net tried using them as an example of the Federation might with their various alien allies. The problem is when the one guy killed a planet (not destroyed it) he turned into a ship, and his best feat was inducing fear in the Councilor who was a empath (not a telepath).


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Feb 3, 2010)

TWF said:


> The Dowd are over-rated, some arrogant new poster at SD.net tried using them as an example of the Federation might with their various alien allies. The problem is when the one guy killed a planet (not destroyed it) he turned into a ship, and his best feat was inducing fear in the Councilor who was a empath (not a telepath).



wait what? allies.? why the hell would the newbie say that?.that Dowd basically said "leave me the fuck alone..or I'll stomp the shit out of you" that guys no more a federation ally then he was the species he wiped out

he also pretty much said the rest of his species where a bunch of jerk offs who didn't give a shit about anything other then having fun and lulz which would count them out unless the empire got pissed

the ship was an illusion..he did mind rape troi

but he didn't destroy the planet that was the Husnuck they burned up the planet

he retconned their entire species out of his existense with a thought after they killed his wife and drove him into a sasuke-esque emo rage

to qoute him "all Husnock, everywhere, over 50 billion."

which is..impressive actually might be more then the Q did


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## Fang (Feb 3, 2010)

Nah, he didn't really mind-rape her, he just made her scared witless. And regardless, there's a difference between empaths and telepaths.

Anyways, a lot of stuff about the Dowd is bullshit. If he can wipe out species with a thought,which IIRC he claimed not actually showed, he wouldn't need to transform into a starship and blast a planet.


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## Rashou (Feb 3, 2010)

Star Trek vs. Star Wars hands down.


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## Kind of a big deal (Feb 3, 2010)

How about: (SW vs ST) vs (consolewar) ?


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Feb 3, 2010)

TWF said:


> Nah, he didn't really mind-rape her, he just made her scared witless. And regardless, there's a difference between empaths and telepaths.



which he admitted was an accident replaying the music and making her bonkers


which was funny if your an ubber reality warping turning off a melody shouldn't be that hard




TWF said:


> Anyways, a lot of stuff about the Dowd is bullshit. If he can wipe out species with a thought,which IIRC he claimed not actually showed, he wouldn't need to transform into a starship and blast a planet.



the reason why he did that was because he needed to Convince the enterprise that he was "dead" and waving your hand and torching the planets not the best way to do that around a guy who wouldn't let up which is what was explained by him or Jean luc

he also didn;t transform into it he conjured it "we are a species wrapped in lies and illusions" or something to that effect

he was a pacifist and was mortified at what he did, so he essentially wanted to imprison himself on that planet left alone to be with his fake wife..

either way regardless of the guys PL is kinda moot since the idea that he;d help the feds..or the rest of his race would is pretty stupid...

He was a pacifist who condemned himself to exile on the planet for exterminating the husnock 

and the way he described his species they were basically cosmic cyber trolls..they really wouldn't do much more then laugh at the ISd vs feddie ships...and do nothing what so ever

so he had no business saying that

there are also a few ancient races that are..massive telapths (ones a multi solar system level) and another that wields impressive matter energy conversion abilities that are in fact apart of the federation

but They have all openly told the "lesser" beings that they'd never openly provide them with ubber tech or use their powers to bail them out at all

which is why i never got it when other Trek fans always go "LOL COSMICS SOLO SWU NOOBS"

when the cosmics all tend to give the Feds the middle finger and refuse to help...making it a fucking strawman..(this coming from a trek fan no less it really is a stupid tactic)



Kind of a big deal said:


> How about: (SW vs ST) vs (consolewar) ?



consolwars stomp..man

jesus..dude even the fucking jocks and non gamers..got into that shit

Hell i actually saw a couple cops bitching over this once


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## Fang (Feb 3, 2010)

Nah the guy was clearly crazy to some extent or suffering from some sort of psychosis related issues, either way what he did was the exact opposite of what he claimed.

I really wouldn't trust his claims since he never backed them up.


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## Endless Mike (Feb 3, 2010)

That feat is pretty sketchy since we don't know how he did it, and we don't know if all of the Husnock were on the same planet or spread out across multiple planets, etc.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Feb 3, 2010)

TWF said:


> Nah the guy was clearly crazy to some extent or suffering from some sort of psychosis related issues, either way what he did was the exact opposite of what he claimed.
> 
> I really wouldn't trust his claims since he never backed them up.



maybe he's actually a Transformer


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## Fang (Feb 3, 2010)

Yeah like I said in the same thread, the Trekkie got cross-examined and flamed since there was a lot of "lack" of evidence. And flamed as you can imagine by the regulars. Since no one there buys it.



Crimson Dragoon said:


> maybe he's actually a Transformer


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Feb 3, 2010)

TWF said:


> Nah the guy was clearly crazy to some extent or suffering from some sort of psychosis related issues, either way what he did was the exact opposite of what he claimed.
> 
> I really wouldn't trust his claims since he never backed them up.



my point is that its moot any ways since his race would be just as likely to tell the UFP to suck a dick and refuse to help as anything else really

or any of the elder races in St that actively are on the take and could turn any debate in St favor dramatically never do anything..and tell you to eat a dick when you ask for help

which like i said makes the argument kinda moot



accept maybe the organians..but they tend to just get bored after awhile and not do anything



Endless Mike said:


> That feat is pretty sketchy since we don't know how he did it, and we don't know if all of the Husnock were on the same planet or spread out across multiple planets, etc.



i think they were an expensive race of raiders...is what he said

but its hard to tell..trouble with supposedly doing that is you leave no evidence..backing up what you did


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## Endless Mike (Feb 3, 2010)

The Organians stopped the Federation and Klingons from fighting in TOS but apparently they just stopped giving a shit by the time of TNG.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Feb 3, 2010)




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## God (Feb 3, 2010)

Goku vs Superman.


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## Lina Inverse (Feb 3, 2010)

IMO both are pretty bad


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## Comic Book Guy (Feb 3, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> Which debate has led to more shitstorms and drama on the internet?



(Excluding ST cosmics) Star Trek vs. Star Wars, from my experience.

Console wars is right up there, though.


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## Fang (Feb 3, 2010)

Thrawn > Q

I read it in a Mike Wong fanfiction there fore its probably true.


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## Comic Book Guy (Feb 3, 2010)

TWF said:


> Thrawn > Q
> 
> I read it in a Mike Wong *fanfiction *there fore its probably true.



Ouch. Lowblow!


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## Fang (Feb 3, 2010)

It's Mike Wong, so its true.


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## Lina Inverse (Feb 3, 2010)

TWF said:


> Thrawn > Q
> 
> I read it in a Mike Wong *fanfiction* there fore its probably true.


Holy shit


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## Fang (Feb 3, 2010)

It's a joke


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## Glued (Feb 3, 2010)

Hey what would happen if Han Solo and Captain Kirk teamed up?


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Feb 3, 2010)

Ben Grimm said:


> Hey what would happen if Han Solo and Captain Kirk teamed up?



khan would team up with vader...or the campy awesomeness would overwhelm reality

so we'd have han and kirk humping everything that moves..their character shields laying waste to the imperial fleet

chewie and scotty in the falcons engine room turning it into an IG

and..khan monologging while vader force chokes people left and right and the two being totally bad ass


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## Zaelapolopollo (Feb 4, 2010)

I just wanna say Species 8472 could do reasonably well in SW.

And Goku vs. Superman threads are dumber than ST vs. SW.


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## ScreenXSurfer (Feb 4, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> i think..superman has a bigger following in fact I'm pretty sure there exists no fan following..that supersedes supermans status


Maybe.

How many Superman cosplayers show up at a comicon?

While at a Star Wars convention you get legions of storm troopers marching in formation.

 (LOL @ vote for palpatine shirt on one of the stormies)

Who's more popular, Superman or Star Wars? Shit I have no idea.


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## C. Hook (Feb 4, 2010)

TWF said:


> It's a joke



I actually read Wong's fanfiction... And it kinda sucked. I guess it's just that I never read fanfiction and therefore am unable to lower my standards, but Picard falling in love (lust) with Jaina? Just... No. 

Wong needs to keep to the non-fanfic side of fandom.



A Tout le Monde said:


> I just wanna say Species 8472 could do reasonably well in SW.



Eh, bloodlusted they might. In-character, they're pussies.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Feb 4, 2010)

They were pretty bloodlusted when they fought The Borg... Took out a good chunk of the Collective in like a few days. I forget how many planets and Cubes were reported destroyed but I call that bloodlust.


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## Soledad Eterna (Feb 4, 2010)

ScreenXSurfer said:


> Who's more popular, Superman or Star Wars? Shit I have no idea.


Superdick is more recognizable but SW has more hardcore fans.


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## C. Hook (Feb 4, 2010)

A Tout le Monde said:


> They were pretty bloodlusted when they fought The Borg... Took out a good chunk of the Collective in like a few days. I forget how many planets and Cubes were reported destroyed but I call that bloodlust.



As Mike said: "Kill one of their ships. They're so gutless, they retreat after the loss of only one ship."


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## Hellspawn28 (Feb 4, 2010)

I never had issues with SW or ST fanboys, so I still don't think ST vs. SW threads are bad. I have been in way too many Goku vs. Comic book characters matchs for years now, and it seems like they get worst when times goes by.


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## Fang (Feb 4, 2010)

Go look at the most recent Empire vs Federation thread at SpaceBattles.


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## C. Hook (Feb 4, 2010)

TWF said:


> Go look at the most recent Empire vs Federation thread at SpaceBattles.



There's actually people who believe the Federation has a chance?


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## Zaelapolopollo (Feb 4, 2010)

C. Hook said:


> As Mike said: "Kill one of their ships. They're so gutless, they retreat after the loss of only one ship."



Or maybe they had just miscalculated. After fighting the Borg and being invulnerable to all their weapons, they wouldn't be too worried about taking any casualties.

Then they discover we can hurt them and so they're no longer the confident and invincible invading force. A tactical retreat isn't that ridiculous.


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## KazeYama (Feb 4, 2010)

Wars vs. Trek hatred and debate has led to everything from internet discussions to cold blooded murder. So far Superman against Goku hasn't even come close to that level of discussion. Anyone around the globe can weigh in on Star Wars vs. Star Trek I highly doubt that internationally Goku or Superman are as well known.


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## Whiny cakes (Feb 4, 2010)

Goku vs. Superman is like a tractor beam for dbz and dc nerds everywhere. star trek and star wars arent that heated. but i must say i have participated in goku vs superman threads (go goku) and they are always pretty harsh.


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## Shadow Replication 1480 (Feb 4, 2010)

That's because most of the DragonBall fans who post in those have no idea of what Superman's capable of.


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## Fang (Feb 4, 2010)

C. Hook said:


> There's actually people who believe the Federation has a chance?



One guy was cherry picking different levels of canon feats. Like he used a low end outlier for hyperspace FTL when in Heir to the Empire a Star Destroyer was only traveling about a thousand times the speed of light per minute vs the higher canon which has them traveling hundreds of millions times c.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 4, 2010)

Shadow Replication 1480 said:


> That's because most of the DragonBall fans who post in those have no idea of what Superman's capable of.



This.

Goku vs. Superman shouldn't even be a debate. To anyone willing to do a minute of research on superman's abilities the answer is clear.

I feel that in order to properly debate SW vs. ST one would need considerably more knowledge on it.


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## Fang (Feb 4, 2010)

You have to remember that Star Wars vs Star Trek has been around since 1977 as well. 33 years vs what, that last 10 years or 15 years when Dragon Ball was introduced to mainstream public on Cartoon Network/Toonami?


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## C. Hook (Feb 4, 2010)

Ugh, just like that Star Wars vs. Star Trek site was cherry picking moments.



TWF said:


> You have to remember that Star Wars vs Star Trek has been around since 1977 as well. 33 years vs what, that last 10 years or 15 years when Dragon Ball was introduced to mainstream public on Cartoon Network/Toonami?



True.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Feb 4, 2010)

Trek vs. Wars is also not always about actual combat. Goku vs. Superman is pretty much guranteed to be about who'd win in a fight. ST vs. SW in contrast has a healthy dose of which were better series, had better characters, etc..


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## C. Hook (Feb 4, 2010)

A Tout le Monde said:


> ST vs. SW in contrast has a healthy dose of which were better series, had better characters, etc..



All opinion based, really.

Also, it depends on what you include. Including all materials easily makes Wars better (Nothing matches the fail of Enterprise), but including only the best leaves it all to boring opinion matches.

And fail fanboys who think Star Trek is scientifically accurate.


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## Glued (Feb 4, 2010)

C. Hook said:


> Also, it depends on what you include. Including all materials easily makes Wars better *(Nothing matches the fail of Enterprise)*, but including only the best leaves it all to boring opinion matches.



Moon, Chewbacca. Moon fall down on Chewbacca. Chewbacca killed by falling moon.

Chewbacca got mooned, LITERALLY MOONED!


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## Hellspawn28 (Feb 4, 2010)

TWF said:


> that last 10 years or 15 years when Dragon Ball was introduced to mainstream public on Cartoon Network/Toonami?



That and the GvsSM thing started in a wizard's issue back in 02 or 03, where people have been debated about Star Wars against Star Trek for years. Even Superman vs Hulk debates been around for a longer time.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Feb 4, 2010)

_Planet of Twilight_
Dear God Planet of Twilight.
Such an awful book.


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## Fang (Feb 4, 2010)

I thought Chewbacca's death was quite epic.


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## Emperor Joker (Feb 4, 2010)

TWF said:


> I thought Chewbacca's death was quite epic.



agreed, Salvatore pulled off his death quite well.


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## ChINaMaN1472 (Feb 4, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> i think..superman has a bigger following in fact I'm pretty sure there exists no fan following..that supersedes supermans status
> 
> especially given he's a cultural icon (although i'd wager sw is one too)...and the single most universally recognized word in the world



More people know who Superman is.  Doesn't mean it has a bigger following.  Randomly picking someone out who can say they've watched/read all the ST material is much easier than finding someone who's done the same to Superman.

Hardcore Trekkies have learned a language so they can speak to other people who are willing to learn that same language, derived from a fictitious story.

And DB is probably the least popular of the 4.

It's just easier to find shit storms about Superman vs. Goku because those shit storms are much more retarded and less analytical.  So I guess they would win the biggest shit storm, while ST vs SW wins the # of shit storms.  At least, my guess.


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## Darth Nihilus (Feb 4, 2010)




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## ScreenXSurfer (Feb 4, 2010)

I almost cried when I read that scene my first time. 

Fuckin' Vong.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Feb 4, 2010)

ChINaMaN1472 said:


> More people know who Superman is.  Doesn't mean it has a bigger following.  Randomly picking someone out who can say they've watched/read all the ST material is much easier than finding someone who's done the same to Superman.
> 
> .



yes it does..guys like us and ultra nerds/otaku's don;t factor

its how many people know who a guy is and what he can do in that aspect superman stomps on everyone here


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## quanchi112 (Feb 5, 2010)

Goku vs. Superman and really it depends on the location of these two things.  I generally hang ou with comic book nerds and this is from my own experience and what I've seen.


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## ChINaMaN1472 (Feb 5, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> yes it does..guys like us and ultra nerds/otaku's don;t factor
> 
> its how many people know who a guy is and what he can do in that aspect superman stomps on everyone here



Really?  Glad to know I'm a follower of Superman, even though I've never read a Superman comic.  Hell, I didn't even watch all of his films.  

This thread isn't about who's more popular, it's about which fight causes more shit storms on the internetz.


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## Comic Book Guy (Feb 5, 2010)

Can anyone guess of the year when the first series of shitstorm debates started over SW vs. ST?

With the EU, SW arguably came up to par with the already established ST decades since the days of Kirk and Spock.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Feb 5, 2010)

Well I'm a bit young to say for sure but I'm guessing the first SW vs. ST arguments started when the movies first came out. So late 70s and early 80s.

This also makes me wonder if people debated comic book characters back in the 70s. I mean how the hell could Hulk take on Pre-Crisis Superman?


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## Narcissus (Feb 5, 2010)

Star Wars Christmas Special.


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## Comic Book Guy (Feb 5, 2010)

A Tout le Monde said:


> Well I'm a bit young to say for sure but I'm guessing the first SW vs. ST arguments started when the movies first came out. So late 70s and early 80s.



With the addition of SW EU and more and more seasons of ST, the debates probably escalated to entire board's worth of shitstorms.



> This also makes me wonder if people debated comic book characters back in the 70s. I mean how the hell could Hulk take on Pre-Crisis Superman?



Hulk IS just as ridiculous as Superman back in the Silver Age. Unlike Superman, Hulk never had a reboot, so his feats, while outdated, are still 'canon'.

Among the most ridiculous examples is changing his jump-path in mid-air; holding anti-matter; and the Dark Dimension thunderclap feat.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Feb 5, 2010)

> With the addition of SW EU and more and more seasons of ST, the debates probably escalated to entire board's worth of shitstorms.



Very true. SW owes a lot of its superiority to the EU. Without it, Trek's cosmic beings and wanky tech like the Genesis Device would put it squarely in the lead.



> Hulk IS just as ridiculous as Superman back in the Silver Age. Unlike Superman, Hulk never had a reboot, so his feats, while outdated, are still 'canon'.
> 
> Among the most ridiculous examples is changing his jump-path in mid-air; holding anti-matter; and the Dark Dimension thunderclap feat.



Wow. i had completely forgotten about the Dark Dimension feat.
Guess writers didn't have to try and be serious or realistic back in those days. 
Why, back then, the best thing you could do was swim in a pool of radioactive waste.


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## Fang (Feb 5, 2010)

Narcissus said:


> Star Wars Christmas Special.



The only good thing from that was Boba Fett being a dick.


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## ScreenXSurfer (Feb 5, 2010)

Blondie said:


> Can anyone guess of the year when the first series of shitstorm debates started over SW vs. ST?
> 
> With the EU, SW arguably came up to par with the already established ST decades since the days of Kirk and Spock.


It's been going on for decades, but it only got really serious when the internet became a household thing. So probably around a decade ago is when shit got REAL.



Narcissus said:


> Star Wars Christmas Special.



Thanks for ruining my day.


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## Hellspawn28 (Feb 5, 2010)

> This also makes me wonder if people debated comic book characters back in the 70s. I mean how the hell could Hulk take on Pre-Crisis Superman?



I remember my Uncule told me when he was in High School, people after school would debate if the SS can beat Superman back in the late 70's. He told me people would bring comics to show how Superman would beat him lol.


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## Endless Mike (Feb 5, 2010)

TWF said:


> I thought Chewbacca's death was quite epic.



Agreed. People dislike it not because it was poorly written (it wasn't), but because Chewbacca died.



Hellspawn28 said:


> I remember my Uncule told me when he was in High School, people after school would debate if the SS can beat Superman back in the late 70's. He told me people would bring comics to show how Superman would beat him lol.



Around that time Superman probably would win since he was full of Pre-Crisis powerhax.


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## Hellspawn28 (Feb 5, 2010)

^Yeah since PC Superman is pretty much above SS's level at the time.



> This also makes me wonder if people debated comic book characters back in the 70s. I mean how the hell could Hulk take on Pre-Crisis Superman?



Argeed since I doubt Hulk at the time would able to beat him. Anime was not that popular in the USA at the time, and I doubt their people debating if Speed racer can beat Batman or not.


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## Fang (Feb 5, 2010)

And in any case the reaction to Chewbacca's death was dumb on the fandom's part, because for one, more so than anything else, EU fans have been harping that major character deaths have been few and in between for the good guys.

The fact that Luceno (or was it Salvatore?) wrote it perfectly and poignantly made it all the more dark. And people wanted NJO to be a grimdark adult themed Star Wars series anyways, so fandom 0, writers 1.


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## Narcissus (Feb 5, 2010)

TWF said:


> The only good thing from that was Boba Fett being a dick.



I'm amazed you found anything good in that at all.



ScreenXSurfer said:


> Thanks for ruining my day.



I'm always here to lend a friendly hand.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Feb 5, 2010)

The most grimdark setting in SW is in the Legacy comics.


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## Fang (Feb 5, 2010)

Legacy isn't grimdark at all.

Just bad for the most part. NJO is far better than anything from the Legacy comics, the novel series or Fate of the Jedi.

Vector Prime, Agents of Chaos I and II, Star by Star especially, Unifying Force, Final Prophecy, Jedi Heretic Trilogy.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Feb 5, 2010)

ChINaMaN1472 said:


> Really?  Glad to know I'm a follower of Superman, even though I've never read a Superman comic.  Hell, I didn't even watch all of his films.  [



*walks up to some random dude on the street and his buddy*
"yo I'm doing an article for a comic book news letter and i need to get some opinions who wins goku or superman"

"yo superman easily"

"who;s goku"

"he's that glowing guy from dragon ball

"oh yeah he wins my bad

;no superman"

and yeah I've done that..and yes it caused an argument 


ChINaMaN1472 said:


> This thread isn't about who's more popular, it's about which fight causes more shit storms on the internetz.



point is i never seen random guys get into it over kirk or solo

yet i have over..goku and superman

the flame war has far flung reaching affects it seems


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## Zaelapolopollo (Feb 5, 2010)

TWF said:


> Legacy isn't grimdark at all.



Your bias is showing again.
It's the most grimdark setting in the entire EU.


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## Fang (Feb 5, 2010)

People get their spines popped out, turned into liquid mush, and have frequent guro in Legacy?


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## Zaelapolopollo (Feb 5, 2010)

Gore isn't the only factor in grimdark. Compare the heroes.
On one hand you have Luke Skywalker. Basically a boy scout. You look at Luke and you know he's the good guy.

Then on the other hand you have Cade. Drug addict, pirate and generally a guy who doesn't scream heroism.


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## Fang (Feb 5, 2010)

Luke isn't a "boy-scout" in NJO.


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## Glued (Feb 5, 2010)

Please tell me they didn't turn Luke into a brooding byronic anti-hero.


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## Fang (Feb 5, 2010)

No, they didn't, thankfully.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Feb 5, 2010)

but he did turn badass at some points


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## ChINaMaN1472 (Feb 5, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> *walks up to some random dude on the street and his buddy*
> "yo I'm doing an article for a comic book news letter and i need to get some opinions who wins goku or superman"
> 
> "yo superman easily"
> ...



What's the point of the first part?  My point is just because you know about a character (or any particular work), doesn't make you a "follower."  I guess anyone who knows Sigmund Freud must be a follower of Freud.  Like Superman, I guess most everyone (in the USA) is a follower of Hercules and/or Zeus since they've heard about them.  See my point?  A follower tends to follow the work, not just know about it here and there.

YOU'VE never seen random guys get into it over kirk or solo.  I have, plenty of times.  I know plenty of people who don't know who Goku is, and thus shit storm avoided.  And an argument isn't a shit storm.  A shit storm usually involves circular reasoning/arguments, trolling, etc.


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## Emperor Joker (Feb 5, 2010)

TWF said:


> And in any case the reaction to Chewbacca's death was dumb on the fandom's part, because for one, more so than anything else, EU fans have been harping that major character deaths have been few and in between for the good guys.
> 
> The fact that Luceno (or was it Salvatore?) wrote it perfectly and poignantly made it all the more dark. And people wanted NJO to be a grimdark adult themed Star Wars series anyways, so fandom 0, writers 1.



It was Salvatore, honestly I'd like to know why he didn't write anymore Star Wars books after Vector Prime. Was his schedule already full do to his Forgotten Realms novels or did Lucas just not like the book itself.

Anyways honestly the match has to go to Trek Vs. Wars not only does it predate Goku Vs. Supes by years, it also tends to get the bigger debate and shitstorms when it comes down to it.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Feb 5, 2010)

ChINaMaN1472 said:


> What's the point of the first part?  My point is just because you know about a character (or any particular work), doesn't make you a "follower."  I guess anyone who knows Sigmund Freud must be a follower of Freud.  Like Superman, I guess most everyone (in the USA) is a follower of Hercules and/or Zeus since they've heard about them.  See my point?  A follower tends to follow the work, not just know about it here and there.



the point is..if you can get random people on the street to shitstorm..man 


ChINaMaN1472 said:


> YOU'VE never seen random guys get into it over kirk or solo.  I have, plenty of times.  I know plenty of people who don't know who Goku is, and thus shit storm avoided.  And an argument isn't a shit storm.  A shit storm usually involves circular reasoning/arguments, trolling, etc.



I've seen people argue over solo vs kirk..sure plenty of times..average joe blow..non nerds

I've never seen said joe blow..dudes go into near fist fights..for it though

"you got something against America pal..supes is our icon"

although grant you its entirely possible..that happens over wars too but still


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## edmolicious (Feb 5, 2010)

Star Trek vs Star Wars is the worst! I know because I'm a Trekkie, and I've had people give me flak because I prefer it over Star Wars.  Their both good in different ways, and it's a personal preference.  Goku vs Superman is pretty nasty too. 

Can't we all just hold hands and sing Kumbaya?


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## Chaosgod777 (Feb 5, 2010)

edmolicious said:


> Star Trek vs Star Wars is the worst! I know because I'm a Trekkie, and I've had people give me flak because I prefer it over Star Wars.  Their both good in different ways, and it's a personal preference.  Goku vs Superman is pretty nasty too.
> 
> Can't we all just hold hands and sing Kumbaya?



as long as the charachters fight and/or destroy something? no


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## ChINaMaN1472 (Feb 5, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> the point is..if you can get random people on the street to shitstorm..man
> 
> 
> I've seen people argue over solo vs kirk..sure plenty of times..average joe blow..non nerds
> ...



Meh, difference in opinion, different experiences.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Feb 5, 2010)

ChINaMaN1472 said:


> Meh, difference in opinion, different experiences.



probably that 

although the idea of two dudes in a bar nearly beating the shit out of each other over either..is fantastically stupid of them

and..its also amazing how much of an effect sw st and supes have on the modern worlds culture


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## ScreenXSurfer (Feb 5, 2010)

TWF said:


> Legacy isn't grimdark at all.
> 
> Just bad for the most part. NJO is far better than anything from the Legacy comics, the novel series or Fate of the Jedi.
> 
> Vector Prime, Agents of Chaos I and II, Star by Star especially, Unifying Force, Final Prophecy, Jedi Heretic Trilogy.


Legacy has good force fights. I just read the Addendu battle last night, and I was like, "this is how Sith Lords are SUPPOSED to fight". It was like reading Darth Bane do mind-fuck.


TWF said:


> People get their spines popped out, turned into liquid mush, and have frequent guro in Legacy?


Lets look at Legacy.
The Sith are in control of the Galaxy. The Empire is barely holding on, and the Jedi are being hunted down in days only seen during the Jedi Civil War and the Purge. The Sith isn't like the Palpatine Empire either. That Empire, the people were actually treated. In this one, Krayt treats the citizens like trash. His Sith are everywhere hurting everybody. IIRC, he just exterminated 90% of the Mon Calamari, and the rest are forced to work as slaves until their species die. Horrid. The heroes aren't classical heroes, and spent most of their early life hunting down innocent people for bounty.

Granted, NJO is probably more grimdark. The Yuuzhan Vong...well they did what you just said to everybody they conquered. And the worst part is is that they almost conquered the galaxy.


edmolicious said:


> I know because I'm a Trekkie



How do you live with yourself?

Jk


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## Shoddragon (Feb 5, 2010)

first off, ST vs SW is pretty dead NOW. not when it was really on, but it eventually died down mostly. and it really wasn't much about who was stronger, it was more opinion based ( what you like more).

Goku vs superman 95% of the time is an actual fight and 90% of the time its just people wanking Goku to high heavens. then other 10% is essentially downplaying superman.

there is a difference tho, in a fight, superman WOULD win, most if not all version. mainly because of feats of certain versions.

also, for the most part if I remember right, star wars would also mostly win in a fight against star trek ( barring some cosmic or something) tech for tech. 

I deeply prefer some "sci fi nerds" arguing about whether star wars or star trek is better than watch some noob dragonball z wanker have NO idea what they are talking about.


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## Hellspawn28 (Feb 5, 2010)

Goku vs. Superman threads become shit storms due to the DBZ fanboys knowing nothing about Superman outsides the comics, and debating if Goku is really FTL, and can destroy galaxies. As the poster said above me, we don't see SW vs. ST debates that much anymore then we used too.


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## Wang Yuanji (Feb 6, 2010)

My question has always been, Why would superman and goku fight?


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