# Luke Skywalker takes an Avatar-verse gauntlet



## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 27, 2014)

Avatar the Airbender, not Camerons Avatar (just in case)


1v1 against all characters from weakest to strongest, full heal after each fight


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## Risyth (Apr 27, 2014)




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## Kazu (Apr 27, 2014)

Is that sub-relativistic movie feat still valid? If so, luke stomps.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 27, 2014)

Kazu said:


> Is that sub-relativistic movie feat still valid? If so, luke stomps.


can you link the calc ? 





*Spoiler*: __ 



thread needs more Wan


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## Red Angel (Apr 27, 2014)

I'd assume the novelisations of the movies are still valid

Luke has the better reactions and attack speed. Plus TK and such fun shit


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## shade0180 (Apr 27, 2014)

He shows them how to do real bending.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 27, 2014)

> I'd assume the novelisations of the movies are still valid


the tweet said that was unknown/undecided atm





> Luke has the better reactions and attack speed.


what's his DC and dura ?


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## Nighty the Mighty (Apr 27, 2014)

relevant I suppose.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 27, 2014)

how fast is Avatar-verse after all the calcs and the lightning bending ?


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## shade0180 (Apr 27, 2014)

Between mach 14 and mach 40 or something...


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## Nighty the Mighty (Apr 27, 2014)

Actually I just realised my calc and that calc might not be legit anymore.

500km/h speederbikes and however fast space fighters are is probably from something other than the movies.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 27, 2014)

calc would depend on the canonicity of the novelisation then 


although it's for arm movement, not for crossing distance

how strong is his TK then and how durable are Avatar characters ?


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## Risyth (Apr 27, 2014)

...there's no way you can justify the Avatar characters having any sort of chance against novel-Luke.


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## shade0180 (Apr 27, 2014)

I think Town To MCB for Avatar verse.. Wasn't Starwars around continent level for TK (Death star or something) from Darth Vader.... and Luke is more or less around the same level?


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## Nighty the Mighty (Apr 27, 2014)

Fluttershy said:


> calc would depend on the canonicity of the novelisation then
> 
> 
> although it's for arm movement, not for crossing distance
> ...



well that very calc has megaton TK in it.

so again it depends on novelisation.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 27, 2014)

ok, so counting RotS novelization into the current canon, he wins ? noone has durability above a megaton ?



how about w/o it ?


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## Nighty the Mighty (Apr 27, 2014)

nothing in movie canon as far as I know gives anything hypersonic, although people have been telling me to look at some Clone Wars footage whenever this movies only thing comes up, apparently has some blaster bolt speed feats that don't require outside shit like bike speed to get.

As a general rule I'd probably say Luke has Sonic reactions and stuff, Blaster bolts should be travelling faster than modern weaponry.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 27, 2014)

> As a general rule I'd probably say Luke has Sonic
> reactions and stuff, Blaster bolts should be
> travelling faster than modern weaponry.


makes sense


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## Brightsteel (Apr 27, 2014)

Is this EU Luke? Or movie Luke? Or did Disney make the EU non-canon?

If it's EU Luke....well he's superior to this guy:


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## Red Angel (Apr 27, 2014)

Yea, they did. Apparently the SW fanbase was right all along


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## Qinglong (Apr 27, 2014)

Novelizations were never EU in the first place

(But Shitney etc.)


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## ChaosTheory123 (Apr 27, 2014)

Nightbringer said:


> Actually I just realised my calc and that calc might not be legit anymore.
> 
> 500km/h speederbikes and however fast space fighters are is probably from something other than the movies.



I think it'd be best to wait for more info on what supplemental material is axed.

Like wise for the Slip Jaws and Invisible hand shit.

Though IIRC, Episode IV had some ion cannon that fired from the surface of Hoth to orbit in a second or 2 if you fuckers are looking for measuring sticks from "canon" sources. Regarding shit like turbolaser speeds


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 27, 2014)

wow I have seen Fluttershy make many a stupid post, stupid thread...warp and wank and use calcs to justify his bullshit..but I have never, ever been tempted to neg him or start attacking him like I would a troll until now..

what the fuck dude? You're acting like some kinda vulture right now..


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## Wan (Apr 27, 2014)

Fluttershy said:


> can you link the calc ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Speak of the devil...



Nightbringer said:


> relevant I suppose.



I'll just comment on this.  That calc is based on a faulty assumption.  It assumes the bikes are going their full 500 Kmh velocity.  Nothing proves this, and the fact that they are navigating through a dense forest is reason for them not be going their full velocity.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 27, 2014)

just stick to the thread topic IWD 












*Spoiler*: __ 



thread still needs Oman/Wan




edit: fucken ninjaed


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 27, 2014)

Fluttershy said:


> just stick to the thread topic IWD



The topic is a spite thread, I'm not indulging your desire to provoke the shit out of the crowd and rub it in their faces











Fluttershy said:


> j
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



inb4 he  claims that Aang or Korra can spirit bend away the guys connection to the force


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 27, 2014)

whatever he claims, I'm sure it'll be a big hit


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 27, 2014)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> tempted to neg him until now..


don't hold back man


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## ChaosTheory123 (Apr 27, 2014)

Fluttershit's kind of a known "troll" in the sense that most of his posts are made with the intent of pissing others off IWD.

Not a shock he made this thread.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 27, 2014)

Fluttershy said:


> whatever he claims, I'm sure it'll be a big hit



>posts a quote showing Sauron water bending better than anything ever shown in the ATTLA verse

> is told that's barely season 1 Katarra level

>posts quote detailing Sauron mind raping an entire army on an island and overrunning it

>"so that's a no, he doesn't have any impressive telepathy feats" 

> posts a direct quote from Tolkien himself

> says Tolkiens comments on Saurons powerlevel are bullshit

>everyone makes fun of him for trolling

> runs to the site admin and begs for my demotion

truly, his debating skills mark him as the greatest of his generation 



Fluttershy said:


> don't hold back man



I can articulate my contempt for you just fine via text 




Skarbrand said:


> Yea, they did. Apparently the SW fanbase was right all along



You mean the ST fandom

Darkstar is throwing a party on SFJ right now I bet

and on Rumbles hoo booy "Pendaren and ChuckG were right all a long"

their gonna use this and the one time Pendaren got Kurt Busiek to apologize for jobbing out Thor to prop him up as some master of continuity over even the canon works..that dudes word is going to become scripture now


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 27, 2014)

> I can articulate my contempt for you just fine via text


that may be true, but if you neg then I'll see it every time I click my cp


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 27, 2014)

Fluttershy said:


> that may be true, but if you neg then I'll see it every time I click my cp



you're like a memetic force of failure that transcends the net...because you're shitty thread has literally made my browser crash three times back to back within the span of a single moment


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## Wan (Apr 27, 2014)

You have a very creative imagination, IWD.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 27, 2014)

I have loads of sources of inspiration I suppose

edit- though I think for first time in several years we're going to be on the same side of a debate..since I don't recall anything in the films giving Luke an edge here


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## Nikushimi (Apr 27, 2014)

I've never even liked Star Wars or ATTL but this thread is just Cancerdome tier. 

The actual content is surprisingly readable, though.

EDIT: Wouldn't Force Precog + Force Choke pretty much be GG here?


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## Qinglong (Apr 27, 2014)

Novelizations do

which is what we're going to argue about until either a) fuck it it wasn't EU in the first place

or b) Disney says "bye bye"


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## Gunners (Apr 27, 2014)

5 years ago, I would have participated in a spot of trolling.


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## Louis Cyphre (Apr 27, 2014)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> >posts a quote showing Sauron water bending better than anything ever shown in the ATTLA verse
> 
> > is told that's barely season 1 Katarra level
> 
> ...


what


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## Red Angel (Apr 27, 2014)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> You mean the ST fandom
> 
> Darkstar is throwing a party on SFJ right now I bet
> 
> ...



I was referring to the entire thing about how SW fans feared the new movies would make the EU non canon. In a way, they weren't wrong

But yeah, that too


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## Wan (Apr 27, 2014)

Louis Cyphre said:


> what



He's literally making up what he claims I said.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Apr 27, 2014)

Doubt he's making shit up.

Whether it was YOU making the claims or not is a different story.

IWD has been at this many years now, the posters he encounters must blur together after a while


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## Red Angel (Apr 27, 2014)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> >posts a quote showing Sauron water bending better than anything ever shown in the ATTLA verse
> 
> > is told that's barely season 1 Katarra level
> 
> ...



The fuck is he smoking? Sauron can rapetrain the TLA-verse

Also, links to this?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 27, 2014)

this thread is finally heading to its original purpose


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## Wan (Apr 27, 2014)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> Doubt he's making shit up.
> 
> Whether it was YOU making the claims or not is a different story.
> 
> IWD has been at this many years now, the posters he encounters must blur together after a while



He's talking about a very specific thread over on Viz forums.  Stuff like me directly disagreeing with comments from Tolkien or saying "that's barely season 1 Katara level" is made up nonsense.


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## Green Arrow (Apr 27, 2014)

> Pictured: Every time Flutter makes posts or threads.


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## Risyth (Apr 27, 2014)

Fluttershy said:


> this thread is finally heading to its original purpose



+1s? 



Green Arrow said:


> > Pictured: Every time Flutter makes posts or threads.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Apr 27, 2014)

It only took remembering I have a paper due tomorrow for me to figure "hey, I'll procrastinate looking shit up" to do this.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Apr 27, 2014)

Hmm... we also have Anakin ripping a large chunk of metal away from a support structure about the size of a couple dozen meter across starship at fairly high speed that'd probably come out to large building/city block level during season... 4 IIRC.

Should be something Luke can replicate.

Really, TCW has a bunch of feats I could look at.  I just never bothered because the Legendsverse EU had better shit for them to scale to.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 27, 2014)

Louis Cyphre said:


> what



Oman is a smart user but he goes into full on Raigen levels when he debates ATTLA and like Raigen he is very good at convincing moderators to clean up his mess and persecute the people who take him to task

come to think of it he's like a modern day Manwe Sulimo only without the whole "I raped my twelve year old cousin" thread 



Skarbrand said:


> I was referring to the entire thing about how SW fans feared the new movies would make the EU non canon. In a way, they weren't wrong
> 
> But yeah, that too



and now we've got threads involving prior top tiers losing to chumps from low tier verses as I feared



Nikushimi said:


> I've never even liked Star Wars or ATTL but this thread is just Cancerdome tier.
> 
> The actual content is surprisingly readable, though.
> 
> EDIT: Wouldn't Force Precog + Force Choke pretty much be GG here?



Luke never forced choked anyone though

I mean..he did something to those pigs..but I dunno Force choking is a dark side tech



Wan said:


> He's literally making up what he claims I said.





ChaosTheory123 said:


> Doubt he's making shit up.
> 
> Whether it was YOU making the claims or not is a different story.
> 
> IWD has been at this many years now, the posters he encounters must blur together after a while



nope I'm not confusing anyone for anything, this is what happens when you tell a guy who runs the section you troll on he's a liar...when you're on his "posters that are going to have to be eventually permbanned for being a disruptive and dishonest menace" 

tldr: I always find it a handy thing to archive the misconduct of my trolls..you never know when it's gonna be useful and I've been doing it since way before I became a mod



while the Katarra stuff was dramatic hyperbole..

him disagreeing with Tolkien totally fucking happens - he got just got mobbed by the regs before he had a chance to respond..so opted to get me demoted instead 



Skarbrand said:


> The fuck is he smoking? Sauron can rapetrain the TLA-verse
> 
> Also, links to this?



check above 


any way back on topic

what are film Lukes best speed feats? I recall him soaking up the fall of the speeder hopping to his feet and deflecting blaster fire before the guy could punk him..but beyond that?


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## ChaosTheory123 (Apr 27, 2014)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> any way back on topic
> 
> what are film Lukes best speed feats? I recall him soaking up the fall of the speeder hopping to his feet and deflecting blaster fire before the guy could punk him..but beyond that?



TCW cartoon has potential sub-relativistic/relativistic shit depending on if the lasers I noted can be argued actual lightspeed.

Would make sense when you have ion cannon shots from ESB reaching orbit in a second or 2.

If not, then you've still got double digit/possibly triple digit mach Jedi of Obi-Wan and Windu's caliber.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 27, 2014)

right but those are all Jedi far better trained and more experienced than Luke

I don't want to hand wave their feats to him..based on feats he's not on their level until the new films come out


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## ChaosTheory123 (Apr 27, 2014)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> right but those are all Jedi far better trained and more experienced than Luke
> 
> I don't want to hand wave their feats to him..based on feats he's not on their level until the new films come out



He decisively defeated his Father, Darth Vader.  Vader's been gimped in terms of acrobatics, but he never lost any speed.

I'm not seeing how that wouldn't apply to Luke


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 27, 2014)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> He decisively defeated his Father, Darth Vader.  Vader's been gimped in terms of acrobatics, but he never lost any speed.
> 
> I'm not seeing how that wouldn't apply to Luke



you're still applying EU logic, ignore that..ignore literally everything Vaders done but his performances in the original trilogy

and Luke did not decisively defeat him, he spent much of the fight evenly matched with him..got the upper hand due to maneuverability...then was dominated and hiding..until he lost it

and he didn't beat Anakin Skywalker the man who engaged Obi-wan over a factory melting into a lava planet...he defeated a crippled old man who could barely move in his bulky suit and he did it largely by completely losing his shit..and bashing him repeatedly while Vader was caught partially off guard..then overwhelmed him

Vaders speed feats in the films..do not exist outside of him hilariously pwning Han...


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## ChaosTheory123 (Apr 27, 2014)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> you're still applying EU logic, ignore that..ignore literally everything Vaders done by his performances in the movie



What implies the speed at which Vader swings his arms slowed?



> and Luke did not decisively defeat him, he spent much of the fight evenly matched with him..got the upper hand due to maneuverability...then was dominated and hiding..until he lost it



So... what about this supports your argument again?



> and he didn't beat Anakin Skywalker the man who engaged Obi-wan over a factory melting into a lava planet...he defeated a crippled old man who could barely move in his bulky suit and he did it largely by completely losing his shit..and bashing him repeatedly while Vader was caught partially off guard..then overwhelmed him



And... his arm speed was stated/shown to have decreased... when?

And his reactions have diminished... how?

Kind of falls on you to prove that one dude.



> Vaders speed feats in the films..do not exist outside of him hilariously pwning Han...



Vader's still one of the most powerful force wielders alive, Legendsverse or not.

Again, where does anything here suggest his reactions and arm movement speed decreased when he got his limbs chopped off and his ass fried?

I get the feeling you're going to offer up some kind of portrayal argument... which mostly hinges upon belief.  If it was never suggested he was hilariously diminished in terms of melee combat, you have no grounds to argue it here.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Apr 27, 2014)

Let's frame it like this, per TCW, Darth Maul is still alive, and in Darth Sidious' custody.

Sidious had no intentions of killing him at the end of their little duel, he expressed that much, citing he still had use for Maul.

Darth Vader get's his limbs axed off... Maul's still around to use... Sidious keeps Vader around as his apprentice for the next 20 odd years anyway, because Vader's still superior to Maul in every way.

With the info we currently have anyway, that seems to be the implication and case.

Actually, I don't even need to speculate that much.  Vader outright grabs Sidious' ass and hurls him down the reactor shaft.  Taken by surprise or not, you can only be so much fucking slower than the person and go unnoticed by a fucker as hilariously fast as Sidious (Vader would literally appear to be in slow motion from Sidious' periphery).  If Vader were as slow as you're implying, Sidious wouldn't have been tossed, regardless of being taken completely unaware.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 27, 2014)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> What implies the speed at which Vader swings his arms slowed?


[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kpHK4YIwY4[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kpHK4YIwY4[/YOUTUBE]



ChaosTheory123 said:


> So... what about this supports your argument again?



all of his on screen showings in the original trilogy?


ChaosTheory123 said:


> And... his arm speed was stated/shown to have decreased... when?
> 
> And his reactions have diminished... how?



Luke outmaneuvered him more than once..which resulted in his armor being scuffed and the like..



ChaosTheory123 said:


> Kind of falls on you to prove that one dude.



I'm arguing based on his only canon showings..and nothing else.

Generally speaking when we do this with any other setting it falls on the one disputing existing feats..and arguing against on panel evidence to prove a thing



ChaosTheory123 said:


> Vader's still one of the most powerful force wielders alive, Legendsverse or not.



I never said he wasn't, careful dude...if you knee jerk you're going to start handing the dumbfucks an easy win 


ChaosTheory123 said:


> Again, where does anything here suggest his reactions and arm movement speed decreased when he got his limbs chopped off and his ass fried?



compared to the prequels his utterly dismal showings in the movies 


ChaosTheory123 said:


> I get the feeling you're going to offer up some kind of portrayal argument... which mostly hinges upon belief.  If it was never suggested he was hilariously diminished in terms of melee combat, you have no grounds to argue it here.



I'm doing what I always do..I'm going purely by the feats and forgoing everything else that isn't supported by said feats



ChaosTheory123 said:


> Actually, I don't even need to speculate that much.  Vader outright grabs Sidious' ass and hurls him down the reactor shaft.  Taken by surprise or not, you can only be so much fucking slower than the person and go unnoticed by a fucker as hilariously fast as Sidious (Vader would literally appear to be in slow motion from Sidious' periphery).  If Vader were as slow as you're implying, Sidious wouldn't have been tossed, regardless of being taken completely unaware.



so he catches Sidious off guard..a character without the backing of the EU is a short sided arrogant bully who has a consistent history of being blind sided due to his own ego and poor judgment?

This is going to be interesting..I'm digging into all the arguments I used back in the day..eight years later..

I feel..nostalgic


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## ChaosTheory123 (Apr 27, 2014)

At a glance... it looks like you're pulling the "it looks slow, therefore it is slow" shit I see everywhere on the web.

Much like the Hoth Asteroid field... don't take everything you observe on screen as being at full speed.

Asteroids tend to hurtle around a given star in our asteroid belt at 25 km/second

The Hoth Asteroids look slow, but that's only so we can actually visualize the space combat.

Same shit with Vader's showings in the movies from the first trilogy.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Apr 27, 2014)

You're not really impressing me here dude 

Then again, I suppose this is why the SW fandom is on about "inconsistent blaster speeds" too.

They take every given moment as being shown in real time.  That's not the case... it's stupid to assume that.

Especially in a verse with super humans.


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## Qinglong (Apr 27, 2014)

TCW is still canon last I checked

And saying he got out maneuvered by ROTJ Luke therefore he's slower is a little fallacious


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 27, 2014)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> At a glance... it looks like you're pulling the "it looks slow, therefore it is slow" shit I see everywhere on the web



and you'd be wrong...there's a difference between characters speed feats and


ChaosTheory123 said:


> Much like the Hoth Asteroid field... don't take everything you observe on screen as being at full speed.
> 
> Asteroids tend to hurtle around a given star in our asteroid belt at 25 km/second


 motherfuckers claiming Asteroids move slow as piss 

one involves doing what we do to every fiction everywhere..stick purely to the source material

the other involves failing primary school science 



ChaosTheory123 said:


> The Hoth Asteroids look slow, but that's only so we can actually visualize the space combat.
> 
> Same shit with Vader's showings in the movies from the first trilogy.



So you're going to claim Vader was actually moving at super speeds despite this not happening on screen?

This would be laughed out of a marvel debate..

we apply one standard..or we go home 




ChaosTheory123 said:


> You're not really impressing me here dude



I don't have too?

What I do have to do is point out to you that literally every single preconception all of you all over the place have about star wars is now out the window..that every single argument you were secure in before..is now fucking nonsense courtesy of some bastards desire to make a few billion..and not be held back by a need to give a piss about continuity

so..the way you have handled this before..has to change unless you're specifically arguing eu

or that is to say...Fluttershy made a troll thread..may as well use it to force you to think


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## ChaosTheory123 (Apr 27, 2014)

Qinglong said:


> TCW is still canon last I checked
> 
> And saying he got out maneuvered by ROTJ Luke therefore he's slower is a little fallacious



It is.

And you have fucking Ahsoka keeping up with Grievous (barely, but she can parry some of his strikes IIRC), same fucker that can fight Kenobi.

I'm a bit wary of using him as a measuring stick, but as far as Jedi are concerned, I figure he's fair game personally


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 27, 2014)

Qinglong said:


> TCW is still canon last I checked
> 
> And saying he got out maneuvered by ROTJ Luke therefore he's slower is a little fallacious



No it really isn't, its what happened "on panel" and that's now all that matters


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## Qinglong (Apr 27, 2014)

Wasn't established Grievous wanted nothing to do with fighting Tyrannus?


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## Risyth (Apr 27, 2014)

We're still not at a consensus? Or is this something else?


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 27, 2014)

Qinglong said:


> Wasn't established Grievous wanted nothing to do with fighting Tyrannus?



in the Tartakosvky cartoon yeah...in the CW one? I'm not sure

wouldn't surprise me though but it has no bearing on this



Risyth said:


> We're still not at a consensus? Or is this something else?



This isn't really a thread worth debating in..Fluttershy has less than honest intentions..so basically this is less about who wins and more fine tuning some shit


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## Qinglong (Apr 27, 2014)

CW is canon

(I spent too much time looking for this so I'm posting it anyway regardless of the argument)


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## ChaosTheory123 (Apr 27, 2014)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> and you'd be wrong...there's a difference between characters speed feats and
> 
> motherfuckers claiming Asteroids move slow as piss



How so?  Especially in a verse where we know superhumans are a common thing? 



> So you're going to claim Vader was actually moving at super speeds despite this not happening on screen?



Kenobi showed no issues deflecting blaster fire earlier in the movie, parried his son's blows that can deflect blaster fire and is a superhuman... why does it need to be shown at superspeed when we already know he's fighting superhumans?

It's slowed down for us to see.

Prove he got slower.



> This would be laughed out of a marvel debate..



I personally find how a good chunk of comics debates are handled are rubbish anyway honestly.



> we apply one standard..or we go home



Isn't it wonderful I apply the same standard for feats across the board then?



> I don't have too?



You don't, but you're sure not proving anything in the process of putting up a poor defense of your own argument.



> What I do have to do is point out to you that literally every single preconception all of you all over the place have about star wars is now out the window.



He tossed Sidious down the reactor shaft.  There is no way that happens, surprise or not, if he was as cripplingly slow in arm speed as you're pretending he is dude.

You have no evidence he was slowed down or that his reactions were crippled.  Your argument is based on slowed down footage between superhumans we know can still deflect blaster fire.

Where do you honestly see any foundation for your stance?


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## Crimson Dragoon (Apr 27, 2014)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> So you're going to claim Vader was actually moving at super speeds despite this not happening on screen?
> 
> This would be laughed out of a marvel debate..
> 
> we apply one standard..or we go home



our standard _is_ being applied here, namely the "logical powerscaling > stylistic interpretation" thing

Goku vs Cell looked a lot faster than Gohan vs Buu, I'd be retarded to say the former two are in actuality faster 

I'm not going to suddenly believe Vader (and by extension Luke) is literal orders of magnitudes slower than prequel Jedi, given that Vader still has the training he received, and has been acknowledged by Yoda as strong


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## Risyth (Apr 27, 2014)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> This isn't really a thread worth debating in..Fluttershy has less than honest intentions..so basically this is less about who wins and more fine tuning some shit


+1s. I knew it.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Apr 27, 2014)

The fine tuning is well on it's way for Disney Canon.

So far we have probable cause to believe they're still some kind of relativistic from TCW feats.

And mind rape is still a thing (doesn't hurt Avatarverse has no resistance feats from what I've heard).

Fire power needs hammered down though.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Apr 27, 2014)

Just want to point out that there's no longer anything canon suggesting that Vader got weaker after Mustafar.

So not only is Vader still far more powerful than Dooku, he still has the potential to be the most powerful Force user ever that Sidious pointed out in his duel with Yoda.

Luke defeating him is kind of a big deal.


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## Risyth (Apr 27, 2014)

"TCW feats? Relativistic?"

"not only is Vader still far more powerful than Dooku, he still has the potential to be the *most powerful Force user ever*"?


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## ChaosTheory123 (Apr 27, 2014)

Risyth said:


> "TCW feats? Relativistic?"



When you have ion cannons on hoth reaching orbit in seconds from cannons that behave more like blasters, it's kind of easy to argue the laser beams that look like they behave like actual lasers are likely lightspeed.

I made an entire post around the notion a page back.

If not considered Lightspeed, that'd still leave them potentially massively hypersonic.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Apr 27, 2014)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> *Just want to point out that there's no longer anything canon suggesting that Vader got weaker after Mustafar.
> *
> So not only is Vader still far more powerful than Dooku, he still has the potential to be the most powerful Force user ever that Sidious pointed out in his duel with Yoda.
> 
> Luke defeating him is kind of a big deal.


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## Risyth (Apr 27, 2014)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> When you have ion cannons on hoth reaching orbit in seconds from cannons that behave more like blasters, it's kind of easy to argue the laser beams that look like they behave like actual lasers are likely lightspeed.
> 
> I made an entire post around the notion a page back.
> 
> If not considered Lightspeed, that'd still leave them potentially massively hypersonic.



Ah, sorry: I thought you were referring to the characters themselves. Missed that.


----------



## ChaosTheory123 (Apr 27, 2014)

Risyth said:


> Ah, sorry: I thought you were referring to the characters themselves. Missed that.



I linked an episode with Kenobi blocking one such laser while it was in transit from meters away.

15:15 in the episode to be exact.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 27, 2014)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> How so?  Especially in a verse where we know superhumans are a common thing? ]



Where the creator of the series has never had any trouble displaying superhuman feats in a clear manner on "panel" as it were..

why do you suddenly think you can deny what happened on screen in favor of inferring you're own interpretation based off stuff he did when he was more than a burned torso and a head



ChaosTheory123 said:


> Kenobi showed no issues deflecting blaster fire earlier in the movie, parried his son's blows that can deflect blaster fire and is a superhuman... why does it need to be shown at superspeed when we already know he's fighting superhumans?



Kenobi reacted to a point blank blaster shot and caught two thugs one of them suffering some pretty extensive deformities off guard..

I expect that of a Jedi even one who time decided to take a merciless shit on 



ChaosTheory123 said:


> t's slowed down for us to see.



_what?! _



ChaosTheory123 said:


> ]Prove he got slower.



I just did 



ChaosTheory123 said:


> I personally find how a good chunk of comics debates are handled are rubbish anyway honestly.



man they said this place had a dramatic shift for in the way things were done..I always dismissed it as the butthurt envying the last bastion of sanity though  



ChaosTheory123 said:


> Isn't it wonderful I apply the same standard for feats across the board then?



you are not at all 


ChaosTheory123 said:


> You don't, but you're sure not proving anything in the process of putting up a poor defense of your own argument.



my defense is "feats show something that contradict your claim in the videos I posted" I am arguing with canon..you're arguing with supposition and power scaling 



ChaosTheory123 said:


> He tossed Sidious down the reactor shaft.  There is no way that happens, surprise or not, if he was as cripplingly slow in arm speed as you're pretending he is dude.



Because...in the decades since the battle in the senate Sidious showed..spectacular reaction time feats?


ChaosTheory123 said:


> You have no evidence he was slowed down or that his reactions were crippled.  Your argument is based on slowed down footage between superhumans we know can still deflect blaster fire.
> 
> Where do you honestly see any foundation for your stance?



slowed down footage of superhumans...

slowed down..when the prequel trilogy shows that shit no fucking problem..





Crimson Dragoon said:


> our standard _is_ being applied here, namely the "logical powerscaling > stylistic interpretation" thing



none of this takes precedent over feats

if it has...then all the griping you guys give spacebattles is fucking meaningless 



ChaosTheory123 said:


> T
> 
> Fire power needs hammered down though.



This is going to be a fucking mess

TCW has some royally retarded ship to ship battles...that massively contradict the films fire power figures 



Eldritch Sukima said:


> Luke defeating him is kind of a big deal.



yup


----------



## Qinglong (Apr 27, 2014)

No SB cannot powerscale, at all, which is why we gripe on them

They would legit say Nihilus > every other Force user no matter what their feats are, because Force Drain

They also said EU Luke was slower than Jax Pavan


----------



## TheForgottenPen (Apr 27, 2014)

Stealing this. Hope you dont mind


----------



## Eldritch Sukima (Apr 27, 2014)

Have we ever considered 'it doesn't look fast so it can't be fast' a valid argument?


----------



## Qinglong (Apr 27, 2014)

Wan has

so no one important


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Apr 27, 2014)

Qinglong said:


> No SB cannot powerscale, at all, which is why we gripe on them
> 
> They would legit say Nihilus > every other Force user no matter what their feats are, because Force Drain
> 
> They also said EU Luke was slower than Jax Pavan



pretty much this 

Slade in Arrow before juiced up on Miracle didn't have the feats Billy Wintergreen does in terms of catching, well, arrows 

Billy being faster despite Slade beating him in a fight and sticking a knife in his eye would be some fucking silly shit


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 27, 2014)

Qinglong said:


> No SB cannot powerscale, at all, which is why we gripe on them
> 
> They would legit say Nihilus > every other Force user no matter what their feats are, because Force Drain
> 
> They also said EU Luke was slower than Jax Pavan



actually they consider Sasuke above Nilhous 



Eldritch Sukima said:


> Have we ever considered 'it doesn't look fast so it can't be fast' a valid argument?



This isn't what I'm doing

I'm going by feats..acknowledging legit super human performances when they are shown on panel..and questioning when they aren't

edit- Wans debate style consists of lying out of his ass..downplaying everything then when that fails having an epileptic fit and going "GAIIZ I DEMAND RESPECT"


----------



## Eldritch Sukima (Apr 27, 2014)

Haven't seen IWD around here in forever, so I'm wondering if he might just be arguing based on horribly outdated board etiquette or something.


----------



## Qinglong (Apr 27, 2014)

Oh yeah that too

which is lulzy

and I think Pavan > Starkiller as well was brought up


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 27, 2014)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> Haven't seen IWD around here in forever, so I'm wondering if he might just be arguing based on horribly outdated board etiquette or something.



This seems to be exactly what happened

you fuckers changed Dogma while I was taking a sabbatical

any way if you guys can ignore feats and go purely by conjecture based off other feats done by other people and the same characters in vastly different points of their lives

then Luke LOLstomps the piss out of everyone one on one...and Wan can fucking bring it because I can scale Luke to near Karate kid level reaction time going by the new system



Qinglong said:


> Oh yeah that too
> 
> which is lulzy
> 
> and I think Pavan > Starkiller as well was brought up



apparently Nardo can survive Eru throwing Numenor at him too


----------



## Risyth (Apr 27, 2014)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> I linked an episode with Kenobi blocking one such laser while it was in transit from meters away.
> 
> 15:15 in the episode to be exact.



If you don't mind, then, I'm going to pretend that episode doesn't exist.


----------



## Gunners (Apr 27, 2014)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> nope I'm not confusing anyone for anything, this is what happens when you tell a guy who runs the section you troll on he's a liar...when you're on his "posters that are going to have to be eventually permbanned for being a disruptive and dishonest menace"
> 
> tldr: I always find it a handy thing to archive the misconduct of my trolls..you never know when it's gonna be useful and I've been doing it since way before I became a mod
> 
> ...





> while the Katarra stuff was dramatic hyperbole


Sounds like a dramatic way of saying, ''I lied''.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 27, 2014)

What I wanna know is why did the TCW writers go out of their way to make Tano sympathetic? She mic drops on Yoda and Mace and I almost nodded

bad as their actions may have been..I was able to successfully hate the little shit for four years prior



Gunners said:


> Sounds like a dramatic way of saying, ''I lied''.



I suppose I could have said "denies that canon feats exist" but neither makes it any less retarded, what he did. 

go back to lurking and randomly negging half of creation and skirting a rep sealing by exploiting the mods hateboner for the OBD while you do it.


----------



## Nikushimi (Apr 27, 2014)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> Luke never forced choked anyone though
> 
> I mean..he did something to those pigs..but I dunno Force choking is a dark side tech



Ffs, he lifted that X-Wing out of Yoda's swamp when he was still a scrub Jedi. What's stopping him from applying that kind of force to a person's throat?

I mean, I get that it might be uncharacteristic of him, but the basic mechanics of it should be well within Luke's grasp.

It doesn't even strictly have to be a Force Choke, either. Maybe he can do one of those notorious Force Kicks instead. 

As long as he is consciously applying the Force offensively he should be able to juice these mofos.


----------



## Gunners (Apr 27, 2014)

The Immortal WatchDog said:
			
		

> I suppose I could have said "denies that canon feats exist" but neither makes it any less retarded, what he did.
> 
> go back to lurking and randomly negging half of creation and skirting a rep sealing by exploiting the mods hateboner for the OBD while you do it.


Could you show some consistency please? I'm not fond of hyperboles followed by a jarring insinuation. ''Go back to negging half of creation'' implies I neg a large number of posters, so it is very stupid of you to suggest I have escaped punishment because of the mods' dislike for the ODB. You'd have to believe that the ODB is the significant majority of the forum, or that the mods would turn a blind eye to the _wrong_ committed against other members, simply because they do not like the ODB. 


> I suppose I could have said "denies that canon feats exist" but neither makes it any less retarded, what he did.


To be honest, you shouldn't have said anything on the subject matter. What you're saying isn't exactly relevant; it seems more like a cheap shot against his character, in a vain attempt at gaining the upperhand in any subsequent argument.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 27, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> Ffs, he lifted that X-Wing out of Yoda's swamp when he was still a scrub Jedi. What's stopping him from applying that kind of force to a person's throat?



nothing whatsoever beyond ethics basically

Jedi consider that shit Sith like

then again Lukes got no such hangs ups I suppose




Gunners said:


> Could you show some consistency please? I'm not fond of hyperboles followed by a jarring insinuation. ''Go back to negging half of creation'' implies I neg a large number of posters, so it is very stupid of you to suggest I have escaped punishment because of the mods' dislike for the ODB. You'd have to believe that the ODB is the significant majority of the forum, or that the mods* would turn a blind eye to the wrong committed against other members, simply because they do not like the ODB. *
> .



Considering I got you fucking rep sealed and conclusively proved you constantly harass and neg users you don't like here instead of having the personal integrity to confront them face to face? That despite there being more than sufficient proof for you to not only be rep sealed but perm sec banned from this section on literally any other forum online..that I had you cold..and you only got a temp sealing..if at all..

yeah...I'm going to claim that and be completely in the right doing so

edit- and you;'re dislike of having the truth about people being brought in the open is irrelevant really.


----------



## Gunners (Apr 27, 2014)

> Considering I got you fucking rep sealed and conclusively proved you constantly harass and neg users you don't like here instead of having the personal integrity to confront them face to face? That despite there being more than sufficient proof for you to not only be rep sealed but perm sec banned from this section on literally any other forum online..that I had you cold..and you only got a temp sealing..if at all..
> 
> yeah...I'm going to claim that and be completely in the right doing so


There's that lack of consistency I'm talking about. ''Waah, the mods have a hatred for the ODB, which is why your rep is not sealed''.... ''I got your rep sealed''.

You're not right in what you're claiming, you're simply unable to look at things reasonably. You're unable to see that you're humoured, simply because your insistent wailing is annoying; it really is akin to giving a bottle to a crying baby. The things you're complaining about are done by you and your associations, and across the board; but for whatever reason, it becomes this great big conspiracy when you perceive yourself ( and colleagues) to be the target of such offences.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 27, 2014)

you apparently being temporarily rep sealed for stalking and harassing, as opposed to perm banned which you should have been...does not make me inconsistent.

it entirely validates that you are, someone who takes advantage of an incredibly bad situation to be a coward and screw with users while you're at it.

So don't even bother responding to me, because as far as I'm concerned you're a symptom of a cancer killing this site slowly and I will jump on you, every time you insult me by bringing your deplorable self to my attention.

edit- i might be the only one..who feels this way about it, but damn it feels good to be back!


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Apr 27, 2014)

What the fuck's a ODB


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 27, 2014)

Louis Cyphre said:


> What the fuck's a ODB



out dome battleskirts?

maybe?

old dirty bastards?

odd demented bastards?

obfuscation, dementia, bullshit? this last one describes Wan and Fluttershy at least


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## Gunners (Apr 27, 2014)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> you apparently being temporarily rep sealed for stalking and harassing, as opposed to perm banned which you should have been...does not make me inconsistent.
> 
> it entirely validates that you are, someone who takes advantage of an incredibly bad situation to be a coward and screw with users while you're at it.
> 
> ...


In my life I have not encountered such a highfalutin young man: _the cancer that is killing this site slowly_, _I will jump of you ever time you insult me by bringing your deplorable self to my attention_. Is there someone you're trying to impress? 

Anyway. Your post is ironic; you accuse me of stalking and harassing, but then you go on to say that me merely drawing your attention will be enough for you to jump on me, is that not harassment?  

You're taking yourself a bit too seriously, and you lack the skill to effectively showboat.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 27, 2014)

I still lack the ability to effectively show boat "high strung young man"

yeah pretty sure EM is the only poster  left here whose been doing this dance longer than I have 

or to put it to you this way, when you're buddy phenom was a newbie..we were defending dbz from mod biased  together..before he went fucking crazy...as to me harassing you the implication is that I consider your input worthless and have no wish to interact with you..how you can play the victim from that is beyond me, but whatever we're done. 

any way back on topic - Luke..chokes the piss out of everyone and their only hope is  mob style massive AOE


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## Wan (Apr 27, 2014)

IWD talking about harassment is a delicious irony.

Bloodbenders have the potential to counter Luke's force choking.  Amon, Katara, and AS Aang all used their abilities to resist the control of another bloodbender.  Yakone and Tarrlok demonstrated the ability to directly make people pass out with bloodbending.


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## Risyth (Apr 27, 2014)

Katara can't bloodbend naturally. Luke would just blitz Amon. AS...Aang...

...why is bloodbending even being brought up? That's not what Luke's force choking is.


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## Wan (Apr 27, 2014)

Risyth said:


> Katara can't bloodbend naturally. Luke would just blitz Amon. AS...Aang...
> 
> ...why is bloodbending even being brought up? That's not what Luke's force choking is.



Force choking is direct telekinetic control over the body, and so is bloodbending.


----------



## Risyth (Apr 28, 2014)

...I'm out.


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## P-X 12 (Apr 28, 2014)

Wan said:


> Force choking is direct telekinetic control over the body, and so is bloodbending.



...........

Okay, I'm gonna pretend that isn't utter bullshit (Mind you, it is; bloodbending is manipulating the blood in one's body to control their movements. And before you try and bring up the floating in the air shit, it's the same as water floating in the air, it's them controlling the blood's location). What TK feat does bloodbending have? And more importantly, how would any bender be able to do anything without being blitzed (I'm assuming that it'll even work, which it probably won't)?


----------



## Gunners (Apr 28, 2014)

Well it is telekenetic, he doesn't exactly control the blood in their body with his hands. What you should be pointing out is the limitation of that form of telekenesis, when compared to the Force.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 28, 2014)

Wan said:


> Force choking is direct telekinetic control over the body, and so is bloodbending.



oh looks whose talking out of his ass again


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Apr 28, 2014)

blood bending is not telekinesis unless korra got really retarded while I wasn't paying attention.


----------



## P-X 12 (Apr 28, 2014)

Nightbringer said:


> blood bending is not telekinesis unless korra got really retarded while I wasn't paying attention.



I'm pretty sure it's just people who don't know what real telekinesis is.

Or at least Wan doesn't.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Apr 28, 2014)

Bloodbending is telekinetic control of the blood.

Hence the term _blood_bending.

Bit different from the Force, which can manipulate whatever form of matter the user wants.


----------



## P-X 12 (Apr 28, 2014)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> Bloodbending is telekinetic control of the blood.
> 
> Hence the term _blood_bending.
> 
> Bit different from the Force, which can manipulate whatever form of matter the user wants.



Just for curiosity's sake.

Would bloodbending be effective against Luke (or any powerful Force user, for that matter)?


----------



## willyvereb (Apr 28, 2014)

Force Unleashed and KotOR are still cannon.
Which means the very least we have sub-relativistic Luke chuckling around gigatons of yield.
Similarly, just because post-RotJ stuff would be non-canon that doesn't mean supplementary material like databooks where the speedbike's top speed was taken are non-cannon, either.
Actually, if we go by the statement regarding Palpatine, absolutely nothing changes here.
Aside from losing a few EU feats for Luke and such.


----------



## Wan (Apr 28, 2014)

P-X 12 said:


> ...........
> 
> Okay, I'm gonna pretend that isn't utter bullshit (Mind you, it is; bloodbending is manipulating the blood in one's body to control their movements. And before you try and bring up the floating in the air shit, it's the same as water floating in the air, it's them controlling the blood's location). What TK feat does bloodbending have? And more importantly, how would any bender be able to do anything without being blitzed (I'm assuming that it'll even work, which it probably won't)?



Tarrlok has a feat of causing a group of 9 people to pass out, and Yakone has a feat of causing a whole crowd to pass out (he was able to incapacitate the crowd with his hands bound).  

Not going to touch the topic of speed.


Eldritch Sukima said:


> Bloodbending is telekinetic control of the blood.
> 
> Hence the term _blood_bending.
> 
> Bit different from the Force, which can manipulate whatever form of matter the user wants.



More broadly, it's telekinetic control of the water in the body.  It's just called bloodbending.

Hama: "And yet, each month, I felt the full moon enriching me with its energy. There had to be something I could do to escape. Then I realized that where there is life, there is water. The rats that scurried across the floor of my cage, were nothing more than skins filled with liquid.  And I passed years developing the skills that would lead to my escape.  Bloodbending. Controlling the water in another body. Enforcing your own will over theirs. Once I had mastered the rats, I was ready for the men... "

The human body is mostly water, not just limited to the blood.



P-X 12 said:


> Just for curiosity's sake.
> 
> Would bloodbending be effective against Luke (or any powerful Force user, for that matter)?



In principle, a powerful enough blood bender could influence a Force user.  I would assume that Force user could attempt to resist it just as they would resist Force telekinesis, under OBD equivalence.


----------



## Es (Apr 28, 2014)

>Avatar thread
>Wan Wanking it
>Is still Jelly of SW

The more things change the more they stay the same


----------



## NightmareCinema (Apr 28, 2014)

With the amount of Avatar wank Wan dishes out, I'm tempted to do a "Potemkin plays beach volleyball with Avatar" thread.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 28, 2014)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> Bloodbending is telekinetic control of the blood.
> 
> Hence the term _blood_bending.
> 
> Bit different from the Force, which can manipulate whatever form of matter the user wants.



it's chi based manipulation not telekinesis 



Nightbringer said:


> blood bending is not telekinesis unless korra got really retarded while I wasn't paying attention.



Korra got retarded but not nearly that retarded



Wan said:


> Tarrlok has a feat of causing a group of 9 people to pass out, and Yakone has a feat of causing a whole crowd to pass out (he was able to incapacitate the crowd with his hands bound).



and Luke can choke them both out with a gesture 





Wan said:


> More broadly, it's telekinetic control of the water in the body.  It's just called bloodbending.



it's Chi based manipulation of the water in the blood...fucking A dude...you;re so desperate to masturbate ATTLA you're ignoring canon again 


Wan said:


> In principle, a powerful enough blood bender could influence a Force user.  I would assume that Force user could attempt to resist it just as they would resist Force telekinesis, under OBD equivalence.



this is like when you tried to claim Spirit bending could seal up fma alchemy


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 28, 2014)

Es said:


> >Avatar thread
> >Wan Wanking it
> >Is still Jelly of SW
> 
> The more things change the more they stay the same



I thought you could be banned for fanwanking here, I thought we at least got that in the rules


----------



## Eldritch Sukima (Apr 28, 2014)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> it's chi based manipulation not telekinesis



There's functionally no difference at all.

Nonphysical control of the blood is nonphysical control of the blood.


----------



## Wan (Apr 28, 2014)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> it's chi based manipulation not telekinesis.



The two aren't mutually exclusive.  Force telekinesis could just as easily be called "Force based manipulation", that doesn't make it not telekinesis.


----------



## Red Angel (Apr 28, 2014)

Avatar 'telekinesis' (I'll play along for the fuck of it) is still nowhere as powerful as Star Wars telekinesis even with the upper tier feats gone

Why would it stop force choking now?


----------



## P-X 12 (Apr 28, 2014)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> this is like when you tried to claim Spirit bending could seal up fma alchemy



Wait, he actually argued that? 

How in the hell does that make any sense?


----------



## Eldritch Sukima (Apr 28, 2014)

Skarbrand said:


> Avatar 'telekinesis' (I'll play along for the fuck of it) is still nowhere as powerful as Star Wars telekinesis even with the upper tier feats gone
> 
> Why would it stop force choking now?



It won't, because manipulating your own blood does absolutely nothing to stop an external force from crushing your throat.


----------



## Wan (Apr 28, 2014)

Skarbrand said:


> Avatar 'telekinesis' (I'll play along for the fuck of it) is still nowhere as powerful as Star Wars telekinesis even with the upper tier feats gone
> 
> Why would it stop force choking now?



Because bloodbenders have demonstrated the ability to resist attempts by other bloodbenders to control them.  But that's just in principle; whether or not bloodbenders can resist Luke's force choke specifically is another matter, one which I'm not going to make a claim one way or the other.



P-X 12 said:


> Wait, he actually argued that?
> 
> How in the hell does that make any sense?



Equivalence.  Energybending is an ability that removes supernatural abilities of others; alchemy is an supernatural ability that explicitly can be removed.  But again, that's just in principle; whether or not Aang could actually remove the alchemy of someone like Ed is a separate question.

It's not really a pressing question, though, since if Aang was at the point where he had an alchemist incapacitated so he could use energybending, he would have won the fight already.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 28, 2014)

P-X 12 said:


> Wait, he actually argued that?
> 
> How in the hell does that make any sense?



it doesn't make any sense...even more retarded that when his fanwanking was reported to me he had begun to claim that Aang could spirit bend fucking Father



Wan said:


> Equivalence.  Energybending is an ability that removes supernatural abilities of others; alchemy is an supernatural ability that explicitly can be removed.  But again, that's just in principle; whether or not Aang could actually remove the alchemy of someone like Ed is a separate question.



that you seriously are trying to claim that he can strip spirit based powers from other universes despite them not even remotely functioning the way bending does is proof of just how much of  a shameless troll you really are.

edit- Eldritch ones based on mental abilities the other on spiritual chi control

they are not "functionally" the same in the slightest they have two completely different methods of achieving the end result...


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 28, 2014)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> this form of laser is still some form of double/triple digits hypersonic.


you mean because of this bit ?


> These appear to traverse the battle field in a frame (don't have it downloaded to say for sure though. It spans a good few hundred meters.




make a proper calc for it 

SW needs you now more then ever, Chaos


----------



## Wan (Apr 28, 2014)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> it doesn't make any sense...even more retarded that when his fanwanking was reported to me he had begun to claim that Aang could spirit bend fucking Father



And we're back to you making crap up about me again.



> that you seriously are trying to claim that he can strip spirit based powers from other universes despite them not even remotely functioning the way bending does is proof of just how much of  a shameless troll you really are.



That's what equivalence is for, isn't it?  If they're spirit based powers, that already is an indication that they function similarly.  Anyways, this isn't related to the thread topic; if you want to keep discussing it go ahead and start a Meta dome thread for it.


----------



## P-X 12 (Apr 28, 2014)

Wan said:


> That's what equivalence is for, isn't it?  If they're spirit based powers, that already is an indication that they function similarly.  Anyways, this isn't related to the thread topic; if you want to keep discussing it go ahead and start a Meta dome thread for it.


.....Alchemy isn't a spirit based ability. It doesn't even use spiritual energy/chi/whater name you want for it for a power source. Not unless you're using the Philosopher's Stone, and that's more of an exception than the rule (or if you were arguing within the 2003 anime's version). There's no reason spiritbending should work.


----------



## Wan (Apr 28, 2014)

IWD's words, not mine.


----------



## Red Angel (Apr 28, 2014)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> It won't, because manipulating your own blood does absolutely nothing to stop an external force from crushing your throat.



I did say "I'll play along for the fuck of it" 

Just curious to see what Wan would say


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 28, 2014)

Wan said:


> And we're back to you making crap up about me again.[



oh jesus...twice in one thread




Wan said:


> *That's what equivalence is for, isn't it? * If they're spirit based powers, that already is an indication that they function similarly.  Anyways, this isn't related to the thread topic; if you want to keep discussing it go ahead and start a Meta dome thread for it.



...No it fucking isn't. Equivalency doesn't give you an opening to invent bullshit claims in some desperate attempt to get your favorite series a win 



P-X 12 said:


> .....Alchemy isn't a spirit based ability. It doesn't even use spiritual energy/chi/whater name you want for it for a power source. Not unless you're using the Philosopher's Stone, and that's more of an exception than the rule (or if you were arguing within the 2003 anime's version). There's no reason spiritbending should work.



I'd argue the PS has only a partially spiritual component that more than just human souls make up its energy source.  



Wan said:


> IWD's words, not mine.





i was speaking in general terms you pseudo-intellectual mongaloid, try not to infer meaning in another users post when you can't even be bothered to post in a way that suggests you're even aware of what's happening to you.


----------



## Red Angel (Apr 28, 2014)

Seeing Wan wank Avatar to such lengths makes me tempted to post Heart of Blood vs Avatar: TLA-verse


----------



## Wan (Apr 28, 2014)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> you know, it failed spectacularly the last time you made this claim...why deny reality?



Saying that I claimed Aang could energybend Father isn't reality.  I suggested that Aang could energybend normal alchemists.

But while we're on the subject of reality, how about that time that you rejected the validity of a calc that Chaos made?  Don't worry, I have the actual quote.





			
				The Immortal Watch Dog said:
			
		

> looks like someone hasn't read the house rules
> 
> you will not use OBD calculations here...due to how inflated they have been over the last year or so they have been determined to be..about as unreliable as Naruto databooks and will not be presented as evidence
> 
> you will use on panel proof first and foremost any calculations you make on your own can be entirely dismissed out hand by the debaters here if they feel that they are not supported by evidence. We will not entertainment the dogma that's allowed so many forums to fall to fanboys and trolls


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## Red Angel (Apr 28, 2014)

Was there even an actual calc to begin with?


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## Wan (Apr 28, 2014)

Skarbrand said:


> Was there even an actual calc to begin with?



The calc I cited was this:


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## Red Angel (Apr 28, 2014)

Where was the calc exactly? Even Chaos said he couldn't be bothered to calc it


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## NightmareCinema (Apr 28, 2014)

The calc is on Taco's blog, Skar.


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## Wan (Apr 28, 2014)

Ok, my mistake, it wasn't a calc by Chaos specifically, Chaos suggested the calc and Cooly at the bottom of the page posted a link to an actual calc.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 28, 2014)

Skarbrand said:


> Seeing Wan wank Avatar to such lengths makes me tempted to post Heart of Blood vs Avatar: TLA-verse



The fury vs ATTLA 



Wan said:


> Saying that I claimed Aang could energybend Father isn't reality.  I suggested that Aang could energybend normal alchemists.
> 
> But while we're on the subject of reality, how about that time that you rejected the validity of a calc that Chaos made?  Don't worry, I have the actual quote.



oh my goodness...the admin who ran the Viz vs debate section bans calculation as use as evidence..and when I rewrote the rules I made it pretty clear they can only be used as references..and only then when they are accepted by the community at large

and you're shocked that a section follows CBR's old school take on dbz..is..going to fucking no bill it?

I enforced the will of the fucking users...that's the difference between the way I mod and the way other people mod..you bringing that up as if its some black mark against me..in an attempt to impeach my credibility is fucking hilarious





Skarbrand said:


> Was there even an actual calc to begin with?



I recall Manwe Sulimo making a calculation that put them at sub light or lightspeed

I doubt CT even remotely agrees with that though.'
'

edit upon reading the calcs naturally Wan is talking completely out of his ass as usual

by the way CT his posting of your blog was in response to this



> Originally Posted by The Immortal Watch Dog View Post
> *inb4 Bradly masturbating to ATTLA or reletevistic Iroh*
> 
> guys like Mustang hilariously murder almost every one.



meaning he attempted to use your work to claim near lightspeed reactions in the thread in direct response to that...post 

that's the part he;s leaving out in a shitty and underhanded attempt to paint me as unreasonable..that a mach 12/5 calc gives credence to fucking near lightspeed  

as I said other cites quote you guys like as if you were a bible and in typical religious fashion they horribly fucking distort what you were actually saying


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## Wan (Apr 28, 2014)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> oh my goodness...the admin who ran the Viz vs debate section bans calculation as use as evidence..and when I rewrote the rules I made it pretty clear they can only be used as references..and only then when they are accepted by the community at large
> 
> and you're shocked that a section follows CBR's old school take on dbz..is..going to fucking no bill it?
> 
> I enforced the will of the fucking users...that's the difference between the way I mod and the way other people mod..you bringing that up as if its some black mark against me..in an attempt to impeach my credibility is fucking hilarious



Comparing OBD calcs to the Naruto databook is enforcing the will of your users then, I suppose.


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## NightmareCinema (Apr 28, 2014)

So... For fans of Guilty Gear...
Potemkin vs. Avatar verse.
Should I make it?


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## Wan (Apr 28, 2014)

NightmareCinema said:


> So... For fans of Guilty Gear...
> Potemkin vs. Avatar verse.
> Should I make it?



 I don't care. I know nothing about Guilty Gear so don't expect me to participate in it.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 28, 2014)

NightmareCinema said:


> ...
> What.
> Seriously?



yup and he negged anyone anywhere who disputed it.

read the post again..I highlighted the shit Wan just tried to pull in so far as how fucking despicable he's being.

edit- Wan yes, it absolutely is...the sites nearly cbr level anti calc it always has been and I am in no mood to try and sway their minds on that matter because I don't trust a bunch of fucking middle school to freshmen college age kids to make any calcs of their own that aren't going to be eye bleedingly atrocious..and I wont apologize for that either.

also..I am..not one to brag, and I wont say I'm like "one of the best debaters here" but I'm pretty damn good..and more than that Wan I'm experienced, I've seen every trick you think you're clever enough to pull a thousand times..all the fallacies,. cop outs and gymnastics you think we don't see? Yeah I've been tearing them down since Bush won his second term...

to quote Death from Supernatural "I'm old...and i invite you to contemplate how insignificant I find you"


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## Darth Niggatron (Apr 28, 2014)

Seriously, I don't want to be that guy, but you really should let bygones be bygones, IWD.
Most of the Viz history lessons y'all have been babbling about have jack to do with this thread.
So Wan is a troll on Viz, and so? Break his points here and let things be.


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## NightmareCinema (Apr 28, 2014)

Wan said:


> I don't care. *I know nothing about Guilty Gear* so don't expect me to participate in it.



Good to know that.

Because I don't want you Raigening Guilty Gear for me like with Avatar...

As for the match... Mach 12.5 is NOWHERE NEAR relativistic or lightspeed.

Where the fuck did that come from?

I suck at physics, as in I know very little about physics because fuck that I hate math, but even I know reacting to lightning makes you nowhere near relativistic to lightspeed...


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 28, 2014)

NightmareCinema said:


> So... For fans of Guilty Gear...
> Potemkin vs. Avatar verse.
> Should I make it?


perhaps you could try making good/balanced threads for once in your life 





just a suggestion


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## Wan (Apr 28, 2014)

I'd gladly move past talking about threads on Viz if IWD didn't keep making crap up about me.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 28, 2014)

Wan said:


> I'd gladly move past talking about threads on Viz if IWD didn't keep making crap up about me.



ldestfuckingryoma

any way..back on top if the force unleashed is canon then loooool Luke blitzes, has better durability and is going to crush Korra's boobs for the lulz


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## Red Angel (Apr 28, 2014)

NightmareCinema said:


> Good to know that.
> 
> *Because I don't want you Raigening Guilty Gear for me like with Avatar...*
> 
> ...



Likewise

And yea as IWD said, Avatar is that fanwanked


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## NightmareCinema (Apr 28, 2014)

Come on, IWD. No need to be hostile. Let it cool off, man.

As for the thread...
If TFU is indeed canon...
Then fucking lol. Luke replicates Marek's Star Destroyer feat and chucks it at the opposition.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 28, 2014)

> if the force unleashed is canon


only RotS novelization is sort of in question atm, about the rest we know it's all Legends


hell, isn't the future Rebels series going to be about the resistance and shit between eps 3 and 4 ? that will directly contradict TFU1/2


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 28, 2014)

NightmareCinema said:


> Come on, IWD. No need to be hostile. Let it cool off, man.
> 
> As for the thread...
> If TFU is indeed canon...
> Then fucking lol. Luke replicates Marek's Star Destroyer feat and chucks it at the opposition.



Actually this is me being nice 

when I actually get pissed..it's usually because someone did something massively stupid or perverse. Wans being an idiot but not enough to really piss me off.


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## Wan (Apr 28, 2014)

Oh I just noticed this:



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> meaning he attempted to use your work to claim near lightspeed reactions in the thread in direct response to that...post
> 
> that's the part he;s leaving out in a shitty and underhanded attempt to paint me as unreasonable..that a mach 12/5 calc gives credence to fucking near lightspeed
> 
> as I said other cites quote you guys like as if you were a bible and in typical religious fashion they horribly fucking distort what you were actually saying



More made up _bullshit_.  I _never_ claimed Avatar characters had near lightspeed reactions.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 28, 2014)

are you seriously continuing?

multiple people have demanded an end to this charade..I stopped and you persist

also..negging out of butthurt 

any way Luke force crushes and calls it a day

thread ended some seven pages back


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## Wan (Apr 28, 2014)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> are you seriously continuing?
> 
> multiple people have demanded an end to this charade..I stopped and you persist
> 
> also..negging out of butthurt



Assuming you don't make anything else up about me, I won't have anything more to call you out for lying about.


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## NightmareCinema (Apr 28, 2014)

Okay.
Can we stop this now?
Please?
Just to avoid incurring the wrath of mods.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 28, 2014)

what  mods


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Apr 28, 2014)

I actually was a little concerned.. logged on and saw almost half of them retired

fucking crazy shit must have happened while I was gone


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## willyvereb (Apr 28, 2014)

Nothing much, really.
I just grew weary and actually planned to retire since 2013.
Then after a long while I actually did follow through with this.
So there you go.
Othinus/Greed retired about a month before me but he wasn't even remotely active in the last few years to begin with.

Anyways, the OBD's activity is on a historical low now.
So it doesn't need as much attention as it did before.
Actually, I hope that omething happens exactly because of the decreased moderation here.
Because as you know OBD is a section which lives on conflict.
So yeah, let's wait and see.


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## TehChron (Apr 28, 2014)

legitimately loling at wan getting trashed here


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## Gunners (Apr 28, 2014)

Wouldn't say that Wan got thrashed. It is somewhat pathetic bringing in arguments from another forum, and saying crap along the lines of ''I don't mean to brag, but I'm one of the best debaters here'', ''I've been doing this for x years'', and so forth. As though one should be impressed that someone engages in arguments centred on fictional characters. It is the height of irony to decry a man as a pseudo intellectual, when your whole behaviour and treatment of a non serious issue places you in that category.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Apr 28, 2014)

You can still call a spade a spade if the twit doesn't shape up like a normal human being.

Nobody gets a magical blank slate the second they step in the OBD nor anywhere else.

That'd be like accepting Moses or Tyrant after all this time and NOBODY here is that retarded to do so now.


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## GearsUp (Apr 28, 2014)

Wtf did i just read through


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## shade0180 (Apr 28, 2014)

something you don't need to know


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## GearsUp (Apr 28, 2014)

shade0180 said:


> something you don't need to know



Best way to explain it.


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## TehChron (Apr 29, 2014)

Gunners said:


> Wouldn't say that Wan got thrashed. It is somewhat pathetic bringing in arguments from another forum, and saying crap along the lines of ''I don't mean to brag, but I'm one of the best debaters here'', ''I've been doing this for x years'', and so forth. As though one should be impressed that someone engages in arguments centred on fictional characters. It is the height of irony to decry a man as a pseudo intellectual, when your whole behaviour and treatment of a non serious issue places you in that category.



It does matter when the other person resorts to ad hominem attacks purely out of spite in a clear act of desperation.

Need to defend your credibility _somehow_ when another person tries to tarnish it by referencing things horribly out of context.

So yes, Wan is getting thrashed. And I say this from the perspective of someone that's orchestrated far worse bashings in my time on such and such random forums that have absolutely nothing to do with the discussion on hand.


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## Wan (Apr 29, 2014)

TehChron said:


> It does matter when the other person resorts to ad hominem attacks purely out of spite in a clear act of desperation.
> 
> Need to defend your credibility _somehow_ when another person tries to tarnish it by referencing things horribly out of context.
> 
> So yes, Wan is getting thrashed. And I say this from the perspective of someone that's orchestrated far worse bashings in my time on such and such random forums that have absolutely nothing to do with the discussion on hand.



"Ad hominem attacks"?  Fine, let's ignore that IWD was outright lying about me.  Because that's way better than actually posting a quote.


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## TehChron (Apr 29, 2014)

Wan said:


> "Ad hominem attacks"?  Fine, let's ignore that IWD was outright lying about me.  Because that's way better than actually posting a quote.



Wan, you're already decently known around here as someone who wanks the Avatar-verse whenever given half a chance.

Honestly, nothing IWD's said about you is either all that hard to believe, or even brought up except in your attempts to discredit him by bringing in crap from other forums to try and throw in his face.

The fact is, when at other sites, most of us respect their standard debating procedures. Just as we expect them to respect our practices when they come to the OBD.

Trying to paint him as a hypocrite because of it absolutely reeks of desperation.


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## Wan (Apr 29, 2014)

TehChron said:


> Wan, you're already decently known around here as someone who wanks the Avatar-verse whenever given half a chance.
> 
> Honestly, nothing IWD's said about you is either all that hard to believe, or even brought up except in your attempts to discredit him by bringing in crap from other forums to try and throw in his face.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I'm really wanking the Avatar side to win this thread, aren't I?    Really the only thing I've done in this thread is suggest that bloodbending and Force telekinesis can interact with each other on the human body.  I haven't even said that would allow bloodbenders to beat Luke if it was possible.  And in that obvious spite thread IWD went and made, I even shot down the claim willvereb made about kaiju!Unalaq and Korra being massively hypersonic.

I won't tolerate people making shit up about me.  Would you?  Make what you will out of the quote I posted, at least it's something he actually said.


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## NightmareCinema (Apr 29, 2014)

Wan said:


> Yeah, I'm really wanking the Avatar side to win this thread, aren't I?    Really the only thing I've done in this thread is suggest that bloodbending and Force telekinesis can interact with each other on the human body.  I haven't even said that would allow bloodbenders to beat Luke if it was possible.  And in that obvious spite thread IWD went and made, I even shot down the claim willvereb made about kaiju!Unalaq and Korra being massively hypersonic.
> 
> *I won't tolerate people making shit up about me.*  Would you?  Make what you will out of the quote I posted, at least it's something he actually said.



The bullshit you pulled during the Roy Mustang vs. Ozai thread back then says otherwise.


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## Wan (Apr 29, 2014)

NightmareCinema said:


> The bullshit you pulled during the Roy Mustang vs. Ozai thread back then says otherwise.



...what does that have to do with people making stuff up about me?


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## Gunners (Apr 29, 2014)

TehChron said:


> It does matter when the other person resorts to ad hominem attacks purely out of spite in a clear act of desperation.
> 
> Need to defend your credibility _somehow_ when another person tries to tarnish it by referencing things horribly out of context.
> 
> So yes, Wan is getting thrashed. And I say this from the perspective of someone that's orchestrated far worse bashings in my time on such and such random forums that have absolutely nothing to do with the discussion on hand.



 You have things back to front. Dog started making attacks against Wan's character, before Wan even addressed him, which prompted Wan to respond in kind. 

Wan isn't getting thrashed. And a tip for the future, don't refer to your perspective in an attempt to give your words more weight, when your position is a joke. _Orchestrating bashings on random forums._.. bring out the awards .


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## Risyth (Apr 29, 2014)




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## TehChron (Apr 29, 2014)

Wan said:


> ...what does that have to do with people making stuff up about me?



...Man you have got _such_ a victimization complex



Gunners said:


> You have things back to front. Dog started making attacks against Wan's character, before Wan even addressed him, which prompted Wan to respond in kind.
> 
> Wan isn't getting thrashed. And a tip for the future, don't refer to your perspective in an attempt to give your words more weight, when your position is a joke. _Orchestrating bashings on random forums._.. bring out the awards .



...Well, I guess if you had the capacity to understand sarcasm over the internet, we wouldn't be having this discussion at all, would we? 

And no, I didn't get things backwards.


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## Wan (Apr 29, 2014)

TehChron said:


> ...Man you have got _such_ a victimization complex



I don't follow.  He highlighted the "I don't tolerate people making stuff up" bit as if something from the Roy vs Ozai thread indicated otherwise.  I'm just confused what he means by that.



> ...Well, I guess if you had the capacity to understand sarcasm over the internet, we wouldn't be having this discussion at all, would we?
> 
> And no, I didn't get things backwards.



Once is sarcasm.  Twice is bad humor.  The third time is enemy action.


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## TehChron (Apr 29, 2014)

Wan, that analogy makes no sense

I was clearly mocking the idiocy of relying on pissing contests on another forum as a means of building up your own credibility in general

He shouldn't take offense to my mocking of you going way over his head


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## Louis Cyphre (Apr 29, 2014)

Wan said:


> Once is sarcasm.  Twice is bad humor.  The third time is enemy action.


"Enemy action"


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## Wan (Apr 29, 2014)

TehChron said:


> Wan, that analogy makes no sense
> 
> I was clearly mocking the idiocy of relying on pissing contests on another forum as a means of building up your own credibility in general
> 
> He shouldn't take offense to my mocking of you going way over his head



I thought you were implying that IWD was being sarcastic with his posts about me?  If not then my mistake.


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## Xelloss (Apr 29, 2014)

Well this have gone nowhere, so lets put it to rest.


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