# Strongest Akatsuki Duo That Minato Can Beat



## Seiji (Feb 5, 2013)

Name the strongest pair/s among the Akatsuki members you can think of that can be single handedly defeated by Minato and EXPLAIN. It doesn't necessarily have to be a canonical pair btw (Itachi & Kisame/ Hidan & Kakuzu). You can also randomly pair anyone with someone as long as you think fits the bill like Hidan and Zetsu or something like that.

Location: Forest of Death

Distance: 50m

Mindset: IC

Knowledge: Manga

Restrictions: None


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## eyeknockout (Feb 5, 2013)

deidara and kakuzu


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## Seiji (Feb 5, 2013)

Forgot to add stipulations.


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## Rocky (Feb 5, 2013)

Any pair that doesn't include Itachi or Pain, really. Those two give him enough difficulty alone.


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## Empathy (Feb 5, 2013)

I don't think Minato can beat any combination of the middle Akatsuki members. Minato's in another tier yes, but not so far off and away that he'd beat two of them with room to spare. Let alone the fact that he's very ill-equipped to take on most of them. Kisame and Kakuzu are each very durable and very hard to kill with Minato's potency lacking offense. I don't think he could kill Orochimaru with any of his physical attacks; he'd have to draw with _Shiki Fujin_. I don't even know what he'd do with Konan. Sasori can at least take away his kunai with jiton. He'll have trouble battling and reaching Deidara in the sky. 

Of course these obstacles are by no means insurmountable and he can certainly get around them to varying extents, but they're not all concrete, definite answers. The weakest combination of the, '_middle of the pack,_' Akatsuki members I think are Kakuzu and Kisame (they're all roughly even to me) and I just don't think he has the resources to face them both and come out triumphant. He'd have to go against bottom of the barrel Akatsuki members, in my opinion. Hidan and Kakuzu are the best I could see him coming out on top against more often than not. Hidan's hardly a factor and he can win against Kakuzu, albeit he'd have trouble getting past his defenses.


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## richard lewis (Feb 5, 2013)

Empathy said:


> I don't think Minato can beat any combination of the middle Akatsuki members. Minato's in another tier yes, but not so far off and away that he'd beat two of them with room to spare. Let alone the fact that he's very ill-equipped to take on most of them. Kisame and Kakuzu are each very durable and very hard to kill with Minato's potency lacking offense. I don't think he could kill Orochimaru with any of his physical attacks; he'd have to draw with _Shiki Fujin_. I don't even know what he'd do with Konan. Sasori can at least take away his kunai with jiton. He'll have trouble battling and reaching Deidara in the sky.
> 
> Of course these obstacles are by no means insurmountable and he can certainly get around them to varying extents, but they're not all concrete, definite answers. The weakest combination of the, '_middle of the pack,_' Akatsuki members I think are Kakuzu and Kisame (they're all roughly even to me) and I just don't think he has the resources to face them both and come out triumphant. He'd have to go against bottom of the barrel Akatsuki members, in my opinion. Hidan and Kakuzu are the best I could see him coming out on top against more often than not. Hidan's hardly a factor and he can win against Kakuzu, albeit he'd have trouble getting past his defenses.



once minato tags these guys there done for. kakuzu wouldn't even get a chance to activate doton domu b/4 he gets bam flashed minato once he's tagged. Kisame is durable but a rasengan would do serious damage and 2-3 would kill him for sure. None of the akatsuki bar dedaria, itachi, tobi, and nagato have the tools necessary to take minato down. and even dedaria wouldn't last long enough to use C4 in my opinion "unless he used it right off the bat". Worst case scenario minato would force a draw against virtually any pair, only people I see escaping shiki fujin are maybe nagato and tobi b/c the rinngan may be able to counter it.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Feb 5, 2013)

Hidan and Kakuzu (varying amounts of difficulty)

In my opinion, other Akatsuki members would pose a greater challenge.


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## Bonly (Feb 5, 2013)

The only canon duo that Minato might be able to beat would be Hidan and Kakuzu and that depends how much damage a rasengan can do to Kakuzu with Domu on since he doesn't have anything to get past it in a plausible way.

As for any pairing I would say he could beat Hidan+Zetsu, any duo paring of Taka at that time, any paring involving one member of Taka at the time and Hidan or Zetsu and thats about it.


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## richard lewis (Feb 6, 2013)

Bonly said:


> The only canon duo that Minato might be able to beat would be Hidan and Kakuzu and that depends how much damage a rasengan can do to Kakuzu with Domu on since he doesn't have anything to get past it in a plausible way.
> 
> As for any pairing I would say he could beat Hidan+Zetsu, any duo paring of Taka at that time, any paring involving one member of Taka at the time and Hidan or Zetsu and thats about it.



how is kakuzu gunna activate domu fast enough to stop minato's attacks? even obito couldn't react. kakuzu simply gets blitzed continuously until all his hearts are dead.


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## Trojan (Feb 6, 2013)

I would say Itachi + Kakuzu. @@


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## Bonly (Feb 6, 2013)

richard lewis said:


> how is kakuzu gunna activate domu fast enough to stop minato's attacks? even obito couldn't react. kakuzu simply gets blitzed continuously until all his hearts are dead.



Quite simple. Kakuzu activates Domu and bam he has it. Minato isn't blitzing Kakuzu with 50 meters in between them when Kakuzu always uses Domu when getting ready to fight where Minato on the other hand likes to spread out his Kunai. Minato can start to blitz after Domu is up but it won't do a thing. Try harder.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Feb 6, 2013)

eyeknockout said:


> deidara and kakuzu



Deidara is sort of hard because he'll just fly away and Minato can't really reach him.  

Kakuzu is hard, but he can just tag him and warp a gian bolt back into him.


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## Eliyua23 (Feb 6, 2013)

I'd say Itachi n pt 2 and Kisame


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## Seiji (Feb 6, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> I would say Itachi + Kakuzu. @@





Eliyua23 said:


> I'd say Itachi n pt 2 and Kisame



Yeah I badly want some explanation for these.


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## Rocky (Feb 6, 2013)

Chikushodo said:


> Pain - Rinnegan. ST BT



What about them.



> Konan - Unless she runs out of chakra, there's no way Minato could touch her.



Gamabunta says hi.



> Deidara - Flies away and then continues to launch bombs to Minato.



Deidara spent time on the ground first with Sasuke, so I'm tempted to say he has no reason to rush to the skies, especially with no knowledge. Then there's the S/T Barrier which can redirect Diedara's entire projectile arsenal, as well as the fact that weapons can _reach_ a flying Deidara.



> Itachi - It's Itachi



And this is Minato



> Kisame - I don't think Minato can kill him with just rasengan.



Bee had to save Ei from getting injured by Minato's Kunai. Minato can probably kill Kisame by loping his head of. It's not like Kisame's ever shown to resistant to sharp metal.

Kisame loves to have an upclose Tai/Kenjutsu battle with his opponents, which _ends_ in Minato's victory.



> Sasori - Third Kazekage has magnet style.



That just takes away a step for Minato. If Sasori wants to draw Minato's Kunai towards him, Minato can just warp within Radius of them & smash the puppet, & proceed to Rasengan Sasori. Being hit directly in the chest with a _giant_ _destructive_ _sphere_ may get Sasori's heart by collateral damage. If not, Minato could opt to use more force & drop Bunta on Sasori, crushing him & his heart.



> Kakuzu - Possible, but it will be difficult.



Again, Kakuzu has a heavy projectile bases arsenal, which Minato can _deal_ with. Especially once Kakuzu attemps to use Ration: Gian.


The beauty here is that only Itachi & Pain only have the reflexes to keep up with Minato anyway. Minato strikes so damn fast, that the Akasuki pairs will have basically no time at all to help each other out when Minato comes for one of them.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ersa (Feb 6, 2013)

Minato is a notch above sick Itachi in my opinion.

He can defeat all mid tier Akatsuki teams.

Itachi/Nagato + midtier Akatsuki member (Deidara/Kisame) is where he'd stop. Nagato is on the same tier as him and sick Itachi is slightly below these two.

Depending on the circumstances Edo Itachi and Nagato could defeat Minato solo. Of course the opposite is also true.


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## raizen28 (Feb 6, 2013)

Susanoo cant even touch Minato when hes serious


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## Rocky (Feb 6, 2013)

Chikushodo said:


> How would a giant frog do damage to Konan? She can just disperse.
> 
> and
> 
> ...



Bunta can drown Konan in oil, which is how Jiraiya disabled her in one move, after all.

Susano'o isn't all that helpful against Minato. Yomdaime can out last the Jutsu's usage.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## raizen28 (Feb 6, 2013)

If this is Sick Itachi, then his Susanoo wont last  long and Minato would probably know that fairly quickly.


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## Rage of Hate (Feb 6, 2013)

raizen28 said:


> If this is Sick Itachi, then his Susanoo wont last  long and Minato would probably know that fairly quickly.



Itachi wont realy need the higher levels of susanoo to defeat minato. what ever kuni tags minato will throw to get arond itachi or behind him will just be block by itachi supirior kuani skills. Itachi 

And how would minato break free of Tsukuyomi and if itachi is sick he will likely take him out early on in the game due to minato's reputation. If minato does avoid eye contact miraculously he'll have a hard time against Amaterasu who even A needed to look INTO sasukes eye to anticipate and use his full speed to doge. If minato tries this move he will fall prey to Tsukuyomi.


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## richard lewis (Feb 6, 2013)

Bonly said:


> Quite simple. Kakuzu activates Domu and bam he has it. Minato isn't blitzing Kakuzu with 50 meters in between them when Kakuzu always uses Domu when getting ready to fight where Minato on the other hand likes to spread out his Kunai. Minato can start to blitz after Domu is up but it won't do a thing. Try harder.



I seriously doubt that kakuzu can spam domu and keep it active for the entire duration of the fight, he will have to release it at some point "even if he could it isn't IC for him to do that". I never said minato would blitz from 50 meters. Considering both fighters are mainly close-mid range fighters they will get into a closer range pretty early on in the fight. All minato has to do is touch kakuzu and he's tagged. The moment he lets domu down minato blitzes him, kakuzu has no way of touching minato so it's just a matter of to b4 he goes down. 

Not to mention its arguable as to whether rasengan could still do damage even with domu active.


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## Bonly (Feb 6, 2013)

richard lewis said:


> I seriously doubt that kakuzu can spam domu and keep it active for the entire duration of the fight, he will have to release it at some point "even if he could it isn't IC for him to do that".



It pretty much is IC for him to spam Domu. In every fight he was shown in he has done that more or less for most of the time, only to stop after being killed by Kakashi.



> I never said minato would blitz from 50 meters. Considering both fighters are mainly close-mid range fighters they will get into a closer range pretty early on in the fight. All minato has to do is touch kakuzu and he's tagged. The moment he lets domu down minato blitzes him, kakuzu has no way of touching minato so it's just a matter of to b4 he goes down.
> 
> Not to mention its arguable as to whether rasengan could still do damage even with domu active.



I never said that you claimed Minato would blitz from 50 meter's away. My point was that with such distance+ how Minato usually fights(from what we have seen) Minato isn't gonna blitz Kakuzu before he starts up Domu. 

Also you say Minato blitzes the moment Kakuzu puts Domu down but how would Minato know when its down? Kakuzu's cloak covered most of his body and with his mask covering a good amount of his face, how would Minato know the tech is down to attack at such a time?

Also with his ranged huge AoE attacks Kakuzu doesn't need to do anything himself really so he doesn't have to touch Minato.


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## Hardcore (Feb 6, 2013)

Minato may be fast, but his *current* DC and durability are shit, well DC may not be a problem and he could replace it with hax, but durability is a problem.

hidan and zetsu-easily.

both would be easy targets for him.



> Quite simple. Kakuzu activates Domu and bam he has it. Minato isn't blitzing Kakuzu with 50 meters in between them when Kakuzu always uses Domu when getting ready to fight where Minato on the other hand likes to spread out his Kunai. Minato can start to blitz after Domu is up but it won't do a thing. Try harder.



fatigue. a rasengan may not cut it, but multiple attacks will. Kakuzu depends on ranged and melee attacks, but I doubt he would be able to tag minato who is way faster than Kakashi.

I'd give him Hidan and Kakuzu.


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## Bonly (Feb 6, 2013)

HardCore said:


> fatigue. a rasengan may not cut it, but multiple attacks will. Kakuzu depends on ranged and melee attacks, but I doubt he would be able to tag minato who is way faster than Kakashi.
> 
> I'd give him Hidan and Kakuzu.



With the huge AoE Kakuzu has along with the small area Minato usually spreads his kunai around,he's likely to get hit.


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## Hardcore (Feb 6, 2013)

Thing is that minato is still fast without hirashin.

while its true that hirashin is considered mandatory in his arsenal, he would still be considered fast for at least kakuzu.


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## Bonly (Feb 6, 2013)

Indeed he is quite fast. With all the dodging Minato would have to do due to the AoE attacks as well as going in attacking, that would be quite tiring on him as well as Kakuzu. I feel that once Minato's stamina gets lowered a bit he won't be able to dodge Kakuzu's onslaughts.


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## Darth (Feb 6, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Any pair that doesn't include Itachi or Pain, really. Those two give him enough difficulty alone.



This sums it up pretty well IMO.


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## Hardcore (Feb 6, 2013)

Darth said:


> This sums it up pretty well IMO.



I wouldn't give him Kisame(?) and Deidara.

When Kisame fuses with Samehada, he could suck pretty much anything around him. If Minato would approach Kisame with a rasengan, he would be completely sucked out.

Though my memory is vague on that, so correct me if wrong.

And well Deidara has some pretty huge attacks, notably C3, which is really hard to dodge, yes and that's C4, though the problem is pulling them off, but that should be no problem with a partner and with aid ofcourse.


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## Larcher (Feb 6, 2013)

Hidan and Kakuzu for sure and he could beat deidara and sasori very high diff and get beaten mid diff by kisame and itachi


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## richard lewis (Feb 6, 2013)

Bonly said:


> It pretty much is IC for him to spam Domu. In every fight he was shown in he has done that more or less for most of the time, only to stop after being killed by Kakashi.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



_deal_

Domu requires a handseal to activate which kakashi easily spotted and was able to tell what kind of jutsu it was just from that. I would imagine minato would do the same. Also kakuzu's skin turns darker when domu is active, you don't have to be a genius to tell when he is using domu and when he isn't.

Kakashi was able to dodge kakuzu's jutsu while simultaneously fighting hidan. Minato's base speed >= kakashi and with FTG on top of that kakuzu isn't landing anything on minato. not to mention he could send kakuzu's jutsu right back at him with an S/T barrier.

Once minato tags kakuzu thats game over, minato just patiently waits for him to let domu down and them takes him out. and if need be minato could summon bunta which would completely overwhelm kakuzu and the fight that much easier for minato to win.


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## Bonly (Feb 6, 2013)

richard lewis said:


> _deal_
> 
> Domu requires a handseal to activate which *kakashi easily spotted and was able to tell what kind of jutsu it was just from that.* I would imagine minato would do the same. *Also kakuzu's skin turns darker when domu is active, you don't have to be a genius to tell when he is using domu and when he isn't*.



Kakashi has the sharingan which allowed him to do such, something Minato doesn't have, Minato can tell when its first activated but thats about it.

Again most of his body covered. Add in how he can use Domu on only a part of his body if he wants to, so how exactly will Minato know when it is up and when it isn't when Kakuzu can still have Domu on other parts besides his face and arms?



> Kakashi was able to dodge kakuzu's jutsu while simultaneously fighting hidan. Minato's base speed >= kakashi and with FTG on top of that kakuzu isn't landing anything on minato. not to mention he could send kakuzu's jutsu right back at him with an S/T barrier.



If Minato stops to redirect something that leaves his backside open to attack from other hearts which would likely kill him.



> Once minato tags kakuzu thats game over, minato just patiently waits for him to let domu down and them takes him out. and if need be minato could summon bunta which would completely overwhelm kakuzu and the fight that much easier for minato to win.



Kakuzu can outlast Minato in a waiting game as well as Kakuzu's hearts can handle Gamabunta thus Kakuzu wouldn't get overwhelmed.


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## richard lewis (Feb 6, 2013)

Bonly said:


> Kakashi has the sharingan which allowed him to do such, something Minato doesn't have, Minato can tell when its first activated but thats about it.
> 
> Again most of his body covered. Add in how he can use Domu on only a part of his body if he wants to, so how exactly will Minato know when it is up and when it isn't when Kakuzu can still have Domu on other parts besides his face and arms?



I'll say it again, kakuzu's skin turn darker when domu is active, anyone who isn't color blind would notice this. Also at the start of his fight with kakashi and co. kakuzu didn't have domu activated. He didn't use it until choji was about to body slam him which disproves your theory that he always has domu turned on.



Bonly said:


> Kakuzu can outlast Minato in a waiting game as well as Kakuzu's hearts can handle Gamabunta thus Kakuzu wouldn't get overwhelmed.



_deal_

gamabunta tanked a giant chakra blast from a buju, wtf is kakuzu gunna do that could put him down?


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## Bonly (Feb 6, 2013)

richard lewis said:


> I'll say it again, kakuzu's skin turn darker when domu is active, anyone who isn't color blind would notice this. Also at the start of his fight with kakashi and co. kakuzu didn't have domu activated. He didn't use it until choji was about to body slam him which disproves your theory that he always has domu turned on.



I'll say it again,he has most of his body covered and can chose which parts harden,Minato has no way to tell if Kakuzu ended it completely or just a part of it. 

I never said Kakuzu always has Domu turned on always, but I did say he has spammed it. Also your wrong, Kakuzu did use Domu before Choji was about to body slam him. He did Domu here




> here
> 
> gamabunta tanked a giant chakra blast from a buju, wtf is kakuzu gunna do that could put him down?



And? Repeated attacks will beat him over time.


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## ImSerious (Feb 6, 2013)

He can beat the two strongest akatsuki members at the same time.

So Obito and Nagato.


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## Doctor Lamperouge (Feb 6, 2013)

Itachi's kunai skills can't counter Minato's Hiraishin. When Itachi deflects a kunai, all it does is help spread Minato's kunai. He has to actually physically destroy them to, which he can't do with just kunai.

Plus, if he deflects a kunai, there's nothing stopping Minato from teleporting to the kunai in mid-air and throwing it back. 

Anyways, to answer the OP Minato could beat any pair that doesn't have Obito, Edo Itachi, or Nagato on it. Those three characters would give him a difficult time alone, although he has a good shot at beating any of them. As for living Itachi, Minato has a chance if he's paired with a low-level Akatsuki like Hidan or Konan without prep, but with anyone higher it will be a lot more difficult. 

Besides that, Minato has a reasonable chance of defeating any other Akatsuki pair. Kisame tends to start with CQC, so he'll get blitz'd. Even if he goes all out at the beginning with water dome and merging with Samehada, Minato has counters to that with Bunta and he can also teleport outside of the dome. Kisamehada's absorbtion ability is bypassed with powerful kunai strikes or if not than Bunta can provided the necessary physical force to take out Kisamehada. 

Deidara can only beat him if he succeeds in releasing C4 or C0, but any of his other tricks are easily counterable by Minato. Landmines can most likely be detected with finger sensing and Minato is fast enough to escape them mid-explosion anyways. C1 and C2 are far too slow to hit Minato even if spammed. C3 can be warped away. 

Kakuzu is blitz'd before Domu is activated (considering that Minato blitz'd the Kyuubi from halfway across Konoha), or if not than Bunta can provide the firepower to take him out. 

Hidan is a non-factor unless he somehow gets Minato's blood, which is virtually impossible under most circumstances.

Konan is easily countered with toad oil. 

So basically, as long as the pair doesn't have Nagato/Pain, Obito, Edo Itachi, or Living Itachi paired with a non-low level Akatsuki member, then Minato stands a good chance of winning.


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## richard lewis (Feb 6, 2013)

Bonly said:


> I'll say it again,he has most of his body covered and can chose which parts harden,Minato has no way to tell if Kakuzu ended it completely or just a part of it.
> 
> I never said Kakuzu always has Domu turned on always, but I did say he has spammed it. Also your wrong, Kakuzu did use Domu before Choji was about to body slam him. He did Domu here



1. minato will see kakuzu's skin darken when domu is active and lighten when it isn't active. So how do you figure minato wouldn't be able to tell whether domu is active or not?

2. kakuzu only activates domu when he's under attack such as when an explosive tag goes off or when choji tried to body slam him "although he does also use it for offensive purposes". either way he doesn't have it active constantly because that would waist all of his chakra.

3. what does this mean? this means that minato can look at kakuzu and say gee his skin is light right now which means domu isn't active, that's when i'll attack. When his skin is dark I'll go on the defensive and wait for it to turn light again. if minato has a tag on kakuzu or a kunai near him minato will be able to attack kakuzu b4 he can reactivate domu.


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## Bonly (Feb 6, 2013)

richard lewis said:


> 1. minato will see kakuzu's skin darken when domu is active and lighten when it isn't active. So how do you figure minato wouldn't be able to tell whether domu is active or not?
> 
> 3. what does this mean? this means that minato can look at kakuzu and say gee his skin is light right now which means domu isn't active, that's when i'll attack. When his skin is dark I'll go on the defensive and wait for it to turn light again. if minato has a tag on kakuzu or a kunai near him minato will be able to attack kakuzu b4 he can reactivate domu.



Im not sure if you understand. Kakuzu can chose body parts to harden. That means if Minato see his skin get lighter, but he has no way of knowing if Domu is completely turned off due to the fact that most of his body is covered. This means he could go to attack thinking Domu is turned off when said spot still has Domu turned on.




> 2. kakuzu only activates domu when he's under attack such as when an explosive tag goes off or when choji tried to body slam him "although he does also use it for offensive purposes". either way he doesn't have it active constantly because that would waist all of his chakra.



Once Kakuzu see Minato speed he'll keep it up. Chances are that Minato would take care of Hidan quickly showing his speed thus common sense would kick in to keep it on.


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## Rocky (Feb 6, 2013)

HardCore said:


> I wouldn't give him Kisame(?) and Deidara.
> 
> When Kisame fuses with Samehada, he could suck pretty much anything around him. If Minato would approach Kisame with a rasengan, he would be completely sucked out.
> 
> Though my memory is vague on that, so correct me if wrong.



There's no point in going into Waterdome vs. Minato. Kisame loves to use his sword in battle, so he'll waltz up and attempt to shred Minato, and promptly be flanked by Hiraishin, long before his AoE Suitons.



> And well Deidara has some pretty huge attacks, notably C3, which is really hard to dodge, yes and that's C4, though the problem is pulling them off, but that should be no problem with a partner and with aid ofcourse.



Minato has shown the ability to direct projectiles elsewhere with Hiraishin (Jikūkan Kekkai) before. Bombs are not a problem. 

Kisame is going to die in the time it takes Deidara get in the sky. Look how fast Ei was beaten.


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## marco55656 (Feb 6, 2013)

Itachi and kisame


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Feb 6, 2013)

Deidara and kisame is the strongest he can beat. Itachi, nagato and obito paired up with any mid tier akatsuki spells his death though. If it is itachi + mid tier akatsuki he loses...but if it is nagato or obito plus mid tier he gets beat down very badly.

He can beat deidara and kisame not because they are weak but because their fighting styles are not suited for this battle.

Kisame is not the raikage and if he tries to go in against minato he is gonna be made a fool of. Minato will undoubtably scatter his kunai if he could against the raikage and that is when kisame will be dealt with mid diff at best. Kisame got pierced by kunai before against aoba so minato slashing at his neck/head after using FTG would be problematic for him. Seeing as sasuke could react to deidara's bombs without to much hassle i think minato would ftg away from them easily, minato was able to blitz obito on occasions while sasuke's body flicker was easily avoided by obito...so the speed difference is clear as day. 

Deidara also must remember not to get kisame in the crossfire(he hesitated when obito was near them). So him just throwing bombs at minato like crazy is not happening or else he risks friendly fire. Minato can warp away in an instant but kisame cannot.

So basically you have deidara being gimped psychologically because his explosive can cost him his partners life with a wrong move and neither deidara nor kisame having the speed in their moveset to get a worthwhile hit on minato. They would have to go for large scale ninjutsu and we know how that will turn out. Deidara keeps his distance when using large scale moves and kisame has never used his big water moves up close therefore minato should have ample time to redirect them back. This goes for water sharks, C2 and their other projectiles.

Their only chance would be for deidara to use C4 or kisame to use water prison...but i am not sure they would last that long seeing as deidara like to fight while gradually moving up his arsenal and kisame not resorting to the water prison unless push to the brink.


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## richard lewis (Feb 6, 2013)

Bonly said:


> Im not sure if you understand. Kakuzu can chose body parts to harden. That means if Minato see his skin get lighter, but he has no way of knowing if Domu is completely turned off due to the fact that most of his body is covered. This means he could go to attack thinking Domu is turned off when said spot still has Domu turned on.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



why would kakauzu randomly have domu activated on various parts of his body? and why couldn't minato simply direct his attack at the area he knows isn't hardened? 

your assuming kakuzu can continuously keep domu activated. However his chakra isn't unlimited if he constantly has domu activated then this would basically become a battle of attrition which I think minato would win.


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## Meruem (Feb 6, 2013)

Any two people who aren't named Itachi, Tobi, or Nagato.  They could all give him an enormous amount of trouble 1v1.  So in my opinion the strongest duo he could take is Sasori and Kisame (the two that I believe to be the strongest besides those three).


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## Dominus (Feb 6, 2013)

ImSerious said:


> He can beat the two strongest akatsuki members at the same time.
> 
> So Obito and Nagato.



He can't beat neither of them, let alone both of them at the same time.


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## Bonly (Feb 6, 2013)

richard lewis said:


> why would kakauzu randomly have domu activated on various parts of his body? and why couldn't minato simply direct his attack at the area he knows isn't hardened?



Do you know who's he's fighting? Why wouldn't he cover most of himself in Domu once he see Minato's speed?

He'll only know if Kakuzu ends Domu on his head+arms(as they are the only parts of his body Minato can see) and if he attack his Kakuzu could just stitch them back on while its unlikely he would end it around his head.



> your assuming kakuzu can continuously keep domu activated. However his chakra isn't unlimited if he constantly has domu activated then this would basically become a battle of attrition which I think minato would win.



Just like your assuming Minato would be able to blitz Kakuzu as soon as Domu goes down. In a battle of attrition i'd favor Kakuzu, he went through his entire fight against Shika+company and didn't show an ounce of fatigue once, he's got quite a bit of chakra.


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## Doctor Lamperouge (Feb 6, 2013)

Bonly said:


> Just like your assuming Minato would be able to blitz Kakuzu as soon as Domu goes down. In a battle of attrition i'd favor Kakuzu, he went through his entire fight against Shika+company and didn't show an ounce of fatigue once, he's got quite a bit of chakra.



Minato maintained Kushina's seal for hours, used Hiraishin multiple times, fought Obito, warped the Kyuubi's bijuudama, summoned Gamabunta, warped the entire Kyuubi in one go, and then still had enough chakra to use Hakke Fuin, Shiki Fuin, and erect a barrier that could've restrained Kurama if Kushina hadn't beaten him to it. All in one night. 

I wouldn't say Minato is a slouch in the stamina department either.


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## Bonly (Feb 6, 2013)

The Dreaded Alias said:


> Minato maintained Kushina's seal for hours, used Hiraishin multiple times, fought Obito, warped the Kyuubi's bijuudama, summoned Gamabunta, warped the entire Kyuubi in one go, and then still had enough chakra to use Hakke Fuin, Shiki Fuin, and erect a barrier that could've restrained Kurama if Kushina hadn't beaten him to it. All in one night.
> 
> I wouldn't say Minato is a slouch in the stamina department either.



I don't recall someone saying he was slouch in the stamina department but ok.


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## Rocky (Feb 6, 2013)

Bonly said:


> I don't recall someone saying he was slouch in the stamina department but ok.



He's questioning your judgement on Kazuzu > Minato in stamina.


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## richard lewis (Feb 6, 2013)

Bonly said:


> Do you know who's he's fighting? Why wouldn't he cover most of himself in Domu once he see Minato's speed?
> 
> He'll only know if Kakuzu ends Domu on his head+arms(as they are the only parts of his body Minato can see) and if he attack his Kakuzu could just stitch them back on while its unlikely he would end it around his head.



why can't minato just kunai kakuzu's throat like he did to this guy?
_swats them like flies._



Bonly said:


> Just like your assuming Minato would be able to blitz Kakuzu as soon as Domu goes down. In a battle of attrition i'd favor Kakuzu, he went through his entire fight against Shika+company and didn't show an ounce of fatigue once, he's got quite a bit of chakra.



If minato has an FTG tag placed on or near kakuzu yes minato could simply blitz him, kakuzu wouldn't have a chance to react.

In terms of stamina I'd say they are roughly equal, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to give kakuzu a slight edge in that area. However kakuzu will have to constantly keep domu active plus have his other 4 hearts constantly spamming attacks to have a chance at tanking minato down. Where as all minato has to do is dodge and occasionally use FTG if he's pressured. so in a battle of attrition ultimately even if his chakra supply is a little lower minato would come out on top due to kakuzu draining himself faster.


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## Sorin (Feb 6, 2013)

So what if he uses Domu? If he wants to beat Minato he'll have to attack at some point. By the time he releases or uses his jutsus you can be sure as hell he'll have a hiraishin tag on him from an earlier blitz. From then on, Kakuzu's weapons are, literally, Minato's.

Unless you guys think Kakuzu can beat Minato with doton domu only, in which case i'd advise you to put down the weed.


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## Bonly (Feb 6, 2013)

Rocky said:


> He's question your judgement on Kazuzu > Minato in stamina.



Ahh thank you my good sir.



richard lewis said:


> why can't minato just kunai kakuzu's throat like he did to this guy?
> _swats them like flies._



Minato can. Just like Kakuzu can keep Domu up on his head to prevent that from doing much.





> If minato has an FTG tag placed on or near kakuzu yes minato could simply blitz him, kakuzu wouldn't have a chance to react.



Just like Kakuzu has quite a bit of chakra to constantly keep up Domu. 



> In terms of stamina I'd say they are roughly equal, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to give kakuzu a slight edge in that area. However kakuzu will have to constantly keep domu active plus have his other 4 hearts constantly spamming attacks to have a chance at tanking minato down. Where as all minato has to do is dodge and occasionally use FTG if he's pressured. so in a battle of attrition ultimately even if his chakra supply is a little lower minato would come out on top due to kakuzu draining himself faster.




Sure he'll be using chakra quite a bit of chakra but Minato only going to dodge seems nice on paper but with the huge AoE as well as them coming from multiple angles Minato might run into a trap. 

With his Futon alone that could get rid of of many of Minato's kunai that he like to spread out. Thats messes up Minato using FTG to spots where he wants to if the kunai don't get destroyed. Then there's the Ration that splits in two might force him to run into a well timed Futon or Katon. There's also the dust that could be kicked up which could also lead to a well time combo attack by the hearts.

If Minato did survive the onslaught he could beat Kakuzu in a BoA although with all the possibilities he face im not so sure.


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## richard lewis (Feb 6, 2013)

Bonly said:


> Minato can. Just like Kakuzu can keep Domu up on his head to prevent that from doing much.



You said kakuzu can keep domu active on parts of his body that arent visible, so even if domu isn't active on his head/arms it my be active on his torso, chest, back, ect... To which my response was why can't minato just attack his head/neck when domu is visibly down?





Bonly said:


> Just like Kakuzu has quite a bit of chakra to constantly keep up Domu.
> 
> Sure he'll be using chakra quite a bit of chakra but Minato only going to dodge seems nice on paper but with the huge AoE as well as them coming from multiple angles Minato might run into a trap.
> 
> ...



Kakashi had no trouble dodging kakuzu's hearts while simultaneously fighting hidan. considering minato is faster than kakashi I don't see why he couldn't do the same?

Kakuzu's hearts are rather slow in comparison to a speedster like minato.


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## Bonly (Feb 6, 2013)

richard lewis said:


> You said kakuzu can keep domu active on parts of his body that arent visible, so even if domu isn't active on his head/arms it my be active on his torso, chest, back, ect... To which my response was why can't minato just attack his head/neck when domu is visibly down?



Indeed and I agree Minato can do that if he Kakuzu did have Domu off around his head.




> Kakashi had no trouble dodging kakuzu's hearts while simultaneously fighting hidan. considering minato is faster than kakashi I don't see why he couldn't do the same?
> 
> Kakuzu's hearts are rather slow in comparison to a speedster like minato.



Kakashi only managed to dodge one of Kakuzu's hearts attacks while fighting Hidan, not multiple times throughout the fight as well as Kakuzu only using one heart to attack instead of having them all which is likely what he'd do against Minato.

I agree.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Feb 7, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Bunta can drown Konan in oil, which is how Jiraiya disabled her in one move, after all.
> 
> Susano'o isn't all that helpful against Minato. Yomdaime can out last the Jutsu's usage.



You think Minato can defeat the combination of Itachi and Konan? 

Via Sharingan, Itachi can turn Gamabunta against him.


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## Rocky (Feb 7, 2013)

King Itachi said:


> You think Minato can defeat the combination of Itachi and Konan?
> 
> Via Sharingan, Itachi can turn Gamabunta against him.



Um no.

Why don't you read my first post in the thread.

Minato cannot defeat Itachi & anybody. It's debatable whether or not Minato can defeat Itachi.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Troyse22 (Jan 7, 2017)

Strongest Akatsuki duo Minato beats is probably Deidara and Sasori imo

Reactions: Like 1


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## Parallaxis (Jan 7, 2017)

dat necro

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dr. White (Jan 7, 2017)

Lmao I started reading this shit and got mindfucked thinking that all of sudden Rocky, Hussain, and King Itachi and others had posted recently in the battledome

Reactions: Winner 1


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## The_Conqueror (Jan 8, 2017)

He beats itachi and obito period.
Obito is marked so one clone for him
Minato wins mid diff against itachi.


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## Gohara (Jan 9, 2017)

Any outside of any team that includes Itachi and/or Obito IMO.  Either of them can individually put up a good to great match up against Minato.


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## Icegaze (Jan 9, 2017)

sasori and deidara.

deidara gets his neck split open off the bat. if he struggled with hebi sauce speed he is going to get murdered by minato

sasori then gets killed. the guy who cant hit an old woman aint touching minato when minato is faster than pre hebi sauce who sakura couldnt even possibly track

Reactions: Like 1


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## JiraiyaFlash (Jan 9, 2017)

Prepared Minato most likely can beat any duo with high-ext diff (except Obito and Nagato related ones).

Killer Bee easily play with Taka like it was nothing. And Minato (due to his portrayal and praises from 4th Raikage and Bee). And Bee's brother Ay finds Minato as a "unsuprassable" shinobi.

So Minato should be consider as Killer Bee + here..

So ı dont think ; Sasori & Deidara, Kakuzu & Hidan duos are stronger than Taka.. So Minato easily able to impress them. Due to feats, portrayal and logical power scale. 

Random Encounter ;

Itachi & Kisame
Pain & Konan is rough match-ups for him it can goes to either way in different situations.
--------------------------------------

Deidara & Sasori ;

100 Puppet -> Summons
3rd Kazekage & Hiruko -> Rasengan
Poison -> Speed

C4 -> Sensor Chakra + Senjutsu 
CO -> FTG + Summon
Other gonna able to tank by Summons or avoid with Shunshin.

Kakuzu & Hidan ; 

I dont think Hidan gonna able to take blood from Minato . And Summons are able to impress Kakuzu


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## Sapherosth (Jan 9, 2017)

The usual. 

Any duo outside of the dojutsu trio.

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Icegaze (Jan 9, 2017)

Sapherosth said:


> The usual.
> 
> Any duo outside of the dojutsu trio.



Oh really YOU think Minato can beat kisame and deidara ?
For real 
Wouldn't have expected that


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## Sapherosth (Jan 9, 2017)

Icegaze said:


> Oh really YOU think Minato can beat kisame and deidara ?
> For real
> Wouldn't have expected that




Why not. I've debated against Minato so much that I know pretty much everything he can do.


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## Icegaze (Jan 9, 2017)

Sapherosth said:


> Why not. I've debated against Minato so much that I know pretty much everything he can do.



Oh I don't disagree 
Just surprised that's all


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## Parallaxis (Jan 9, 2017)

Minato is not beating Deidara and Kisame imo.


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## Troyse22 (Jan 9, 2017)

PhantomSage said:


> Minato is not beating Deidara and Kisame imo.




He doesn't just lose, he gets thrashed beyond recognition

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## The_Conqueror (Jan 9, 2017)

Inb4 deidara or kisame can beat minato solo.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Parallaxis (Jan 9, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> He doesn't just lose, he gets thrashed beyond recognition


Yeah, they mid diff him.

Deidara would be taking flight while Kisame floods the area with Suitons to prevent FTG tags from being set up
Deidara can have a clay clone to go underground and set up mines with Moguragakure or he can have Kisame do it with Subterranean Voyage. Make a wrong move? Blondie gets his brains blown out.
If they can set up a combo, Kisame fuses with Samehada to live from C4, but Minato has no defense, he dies.
Bunta gets blown up with a bomb that took out the Sanbi.
Once Waterdome comes up, Kisame can come around and thrash Minato around while Deidara drops clay fish and stuff in to harass him.


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## The_Conqueror (Jan 9, 2017)

PhantomSage said:


> Yeah, they mid diff him.
> 
> Deidara would be taking flight while Kisame floods the area with Suitons to prevent FTG tags from being set up
> Deidara can have a clay clone to go underground and set up mines with Moguragakure or he can have Kisame do it with Subterranean Voyage. Make a wrong move? Blondie gets his brains blown out.
> ...


That totally depends on initial distance
Either of them get marked around 50 m

Data book 4 says minnto can use lighting

Minato himself has clones to take them individually

Minato could strike  before a kamui wrap and set up his strategic locations around jubbi jin and Ay so kisame is not weaving a sign before kunai is around him leaving him to play defensively

Deidaras attack can be teleported or even better redirected using s/t barrier

He is a sensory type shinobi so he will obviously sense the chakra cloud so can get out of AOE of attack. How is Kisame surviving c4 he needs to breathe with gills tho he will be marked well before that.


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## Parallaxis (Jan 9, 2017)

professor83 said:


> Data book 4 says minnto can use lighting


It says he has Raiton affinity. We've never seen a single lightning tech from him.



> Minato could strike before a kamui wrap and set up his strategic locations around jubbi jin and Ay so kisame is not weaving a sign before kunai is around him leaving him to play defensively


To play defensively, all he needs to do is flood the area, it'll wash away the tags.



> Deidaras attack can be teleported or even better redirected using s/t barrier


He can detonate them before it hits the barrier, or have Kisame go underground and set up mines.


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## Sapherosth (Jan 9, 2017)

PhantomSage said:


> Yeah, they mid diff him.
> 
> Deidara would be taking flight while Kisame floods the area with Suitons to prevent FTG tags from being set up
> Deidara can have a clay clone to go underground and set up mines with Moguragakure or he can have Kisame do it with Subterranean Voyage. Make a wrong move? Blondie gets his brains blown out.
> ...



First point is useless, since flight can literally be neg-diffed by Minato's fast activation of FCD that lands on top of Deidara. Minato distracts deidara by throwing a few kunai's to feint him and then drop a massive summon on him, thus kidding him. Deidara can perhaps retaliate by detonating the bird, but he'll suffer heavy injuries. 

Getting up bombs underground wouldn't really mean much since Minato can be flexible of where he fights. Simply throw a kunai and change location. Neither of them can stop Minato from doing that. 

While fusing with samehada is a good counter to C4, it's hard to imagine C4 being pulled off before Minato kills him with FCD though. Not to mention Minato can easily get out of the bomb's range once it detonates by getting above ground like Deidara who will be above the cloud radius via Kunai FTG warp or simply shunshin his way out. 

Waterdome is harder to counter but I am sure that a toad from MT can out swim Kisame and escape the waterdome. If they decide not to escape the waterdome, they can use enhanced oil to drawn Kisame in the water instead since he can't breath if the water is filled with oil. This way Kisame will either be forced to cancel the technique, or fight a toad underwater. 

Another way is for Minato to tag the toad, have the toad escape and then follow it with FTG. Killing Kisame would simply be a matter of feinting him with a Kunai throw/FTG slash to the back of the neck because of Kisame's lack of instant defense. Other ways would be to reverse his jutsu against himself or reverse Deidara's bombs at Kisame. 



professor83 said:


> That totally depends on initial distance
> Either of them get marked around 50 m
> 
> Data book 4 says minnto can use lighting
> ...



Your argument for Minato is piss poor, honestly.  

Not sure how you can be a Minato fanboy.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## The_Conqueror (Jan 9, 2017)

PhantomSage said:


> It says he has Raiton affinity. We've never seen a single lightning tech from him.


Have it your way


PhantomSage said:


> To play defensively, all he needs to do is flood the area, it'll wash away the tags


How is kisame weaving sign when minato could throw a spread* kunai against the likes of AY and jubbi jin, *his striking speed is so insane that he could strike a opponent before a kamui wrap.
He can throw a Kunai in air none the less. Thats hard to deal with as well. If you try to side step you get obitos treatment
If you try to deal with with it using kenjutsu guess who has better striking abilities
You are not weaving sign in that situation to deal with ftg with a jutsu



PhantomSage said:


> He can detonate them before it hits the barrier, or have Kisame go underground and set up mines.


They are not surving a one one one battle for long. Sasuke nearly bested deidara right there with speeed
KCM naruto who want considered to be in minatos ballpark destroyed kisame.


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## The_Conqueror (Jan 9, 2017)

Sapherosth said:


> Not sure how you can be a Minato fanboy


I am not,  I am a *Prime hiruzens *fanboy


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## Troyse22 (Jan 9, 2017)

professor83 said:


> Inb4 deidara or kisame can beat minato solo.



Kisame can, Deidara can't.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Disagree 2


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## Parallaxis (Jan 9, 2017)

Sapherosth said:


> First point is useless, since flight can literally be neg-diffed by Minato's fast activation of FCD that lands on top of Deidara. Minato distracts deidara by throwing a few kunai's to feint him and then drop a massive summon on him, thus kidding him. Deidara can perhaps retaliate by detonating the bird, but he'll suffer heavy injuries.


Well, Deidara was dodging huge amounts of sand from Gaara for quite a while, I can likely see him dodging the toad.



> Getting up bombs underground wouldn't really mean much since Minato can be flexible of where he fights. Simply throw a kunai and change location. Neither of them can stop Minato from doing that.


Having Kisame flood the area could be a good counter to do that, or if they have knowledge Kisame could use another Suiton to redirect the kunai.


> While fusing with samehada is a good counter to C4, it's hard to imagine C4 being pulled off before Minato kills him with FCD though. Not to mention Minato can easily get out of the bomb's range once it detonates by getting above ground like Deidara who will be above the cloud radius via Kunai FTG warp or simply shunshin his way out.


Minato wouldn't be wary of it as he won't see any bombs floating around, so he;ll have no need to turn on sensing.



Sapherosth said:


> Another way is for Minato to tag the toad, have the toad escape and then follow it with FTG. Killing Kisame would simply be a matter of feinting him with a Kunai throw/FTG slash to the back of the neck because of Kisame's lack of instant defense. Other ways would be to reverse his jutsu against himself or reverse Deidara's bombs at Kisame.



Deidara can drop his clay fish into the water who can accumulate near the toad and kill it. Since one of them knocked out the Sanbi, and being inside water compresses explosions, they should be able to kill the toad.



professor83 said:


> Have it your way


Okay


> How is kisame weaving sign when minato could throw a *fucking kunai against the likes of AY and jubbi jin *
> His striking speed is so insane that he could strike a opponent before a kamui wrap
> He can throw a Kunai in air none the less. Thats hard to deal with as well. If you try to side step you get obitos treatment
> If you try to deal with with it using kenjutsu guess who has better striking abilities
> You are not weaving sign in that situation


He didn't strike him lol.

> Kakashi who iirc was running low on stamina, started the warp
> Minato threw a kunai and it ended up near Madara
> At about that time, the warp stopped
> Minato got clowned with a single strike

I don't recall Kamui from Kakashi showing any decent speed feats bar DMS>

Exploding Water Shockwave requires only one handseal and it flooded the whole Team Gai battlefield. Daikodan requires a clap. A freaking clap.

edit
I recant. Minato vs. kidera could go either way imho


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## Sapherosth (Jan 9, 2017)

PhantomSage said:


> Well, Deidara was dodging huge amounts of sand from Gaara for quite a while, I can likely see him dodging the toad.



That's because Deidara can see it coming, and was expecting an attack. FCD attacks from above, which is an angle Deidara won't be expecting because he's a long ranged fighter. He would only be expecting attacks coming from below, not above. 




> Having Kisame flood the area could be a good counter to do that, or if they have knowledge Kisame could use another Suiton to redirect the kunai.
> 
> Minato wouldn't be wary of it as he won't see any bombs floating around, so he;ll have no need to turn on sensing.



Not sure flooding the area will do. Minato can stand on water and dodge attacks by throwing Kunai's and using FTG. Even if the Kunai's sink, he can simply clone a new one. Furthermore, why wouldn't Minato be wearing of a huge Deidara walking around and exploding? Even if he cannot see it, he can definitely deduce that it's something dangerous which would prompt him to either 1. Turn on sensing or 2. Escape the area and figure things out. Furthermore, Deidara will also have to communicate with Kisame before using C4 otherwise Kisame wouldn't be ready to counter it and would die as well. Minato won't let that slip by. 





> Deidara can drop his clay fish into the water who can accumulate near the toad and kill it. Since one of them knocked out the Sanbi, and being inside water compresses explosions, they should be able to kill the toad.



Assuming Deidara isn't already dead at that point, I doubt that those clay fish can swim in oil/fused water. I also don't think it can catch up to a Toad swimming at full-speed either judging by its small size and lack of momentum. It only caught up to Sanbi because Sanbi was casually swimming and was taken by surprise.


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## The_Conqueror (Jan 9, 2017)

PhantomSage said:


> I don't recall Kamui from Kakashi showing any decent speed feats bar DMS>


"Damn it kalashi you beat me to it"-Obito teleported narutos clone without obito realizing it
"took out gedos arm in an instant"


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## Turrin (Jan 9, 2017)

I think Minato would likely beat or at worst draw with any of the Akatsuki Pairs. Think about it, Kishi had Minato fight B & A at the same time who are a stronger Team than most Akatsuki Pairs, and Minato held the advantaged. Also for all the bluster about durability Ei is more durable than most Akatsuki, and yet once again Kishi had Minato troll his ass at the same time as dealing with B. So I really doubt durability sans maybe Kakuzu will be an issue here.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Troyse22 (Jan 9, 2017)

I find people who say Minato clowned EI really, really ridiculous.

He was going to stab at his V2 armor aaaaaaaaaand nothing would happen. Eis armor was BARELY pierced by FKS Sasuke with Chidori. Base Minato with a Kunai wasn't doing it. Unless someone is going to argue that Kunai beats Chidori in piercing power. Especially since Minato has no physical strength feats or hype.


This Minato wank is waaaaay out of hand. Next thing you know people will be saying Minatos shunshin is faster than V2 EI

Reactions: Disagree 2


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## Icegaze (Jan 10, 2017)

Minato clowned Ay because Ay says so 
You don't call someone the stuff of legend if your power levels are even slightly close


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## Icegaze (Jan 10, 2017)

To assume deidara can get away from Minato is hilarious 
The distance would have to be well above how deidara started with sasuke 
If it's a similar distance he gets trolled 

Wondering how kisame beats Minato when the dude was struggling with bee speed and needed his own sword to do the blocking for him 

Kisame would be hard pressed to barf a lake which means he auto looses 

This is the guy who couldn't even beat asuma in cqc

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Ryuzaki (Jan 10, 2017)

If we go by canonical pairings then it's any group not including Itachi or Pain/Nagato. Hadd to imagine him losing with Kurama and Senjutsu


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## Troyse22 (Jan 10, 2017)

Icegaze said:


> To assume deidara can get away from Minato is hilarious
> The distance would have to be well above how deidara started with sasuke
> If it's a similar distance he gets trolled
> 
> ...



Hard pressed to barf a lake? It's close to instant. It requires only 1 handseal for him to do this.

Kisame was not struggling with Bee's speed. He blocked and countered a 3 way blitz, and was grinning when Bee used a headbutt against him.


Kisame's strongest techs all only require 1 handseal, this is huge, as it means he'll never be open to attack while making handseals for his techs.

Deidara's smaller techs require a bit of prep, but Kisame can make up for this by diverting Minato's Kunai with suiton.



Kisame and Deidara together thrash Minato with low diff. You won't be able to find his body parts because he either gets blown to pieces or devoured by Kisame.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Icegaze (Jan 10, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> Hard pressed to barf a lake? It's close to instant. It requires only 1 handseal for him to do this.
> 
> Kisame was not struggling with Bee's speed. He blocked and countered a 3 way blitz, and was grinning when Bee used a headbutt against him.
> 
> ...



Kisame reactions << Minato reactions 
We have also seen sasuke being able to interrupt itachi seals 

I am saying kisame isn't forming a seal and barfing a lake before a Kunai is already close to him 

3 way blitz ? You making stuff up ? He got hit by a mere tossed sword while blocking bee that's it 

Guess who throws weapons even faster ?

I am saying he can't pull off 1 hand seal 

Notice some of his jutsu require both hands which means throwing samehada in the air as shown against team gai 

Or keeping it pressed under his shoulder as shown against asuma 

Loving your fan fic though

Reactions: Like 1


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## Troyse22 (Jan 10, 2017)

Icegaze said:


> Kisame reactions << Minato reactions
> We have also seen sasuke being able to interrupt itachi seals
> 
> I am saying kisame isn't forming a seal and barfing a lake before a Kunai is already close to him
> ...




Lol, Kisame would have time to pull off Jutsu before Minatos Kunai reach him or Deidara. You people talk like Minato throws his Kunai 20+meters at the speed of light.

You're so full of shit it's actually hilarious.


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## The_Conqueror (Jan 10, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> You people talk like Minato throws his Kunai 20+meters at the speed of light.


He could throw Kunai At 25-30m and strike amidst kamui wrap


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## Troyse22 (Jan 10, 2017)

Yeah, by nearly blind Kakashi, and that's not base Minato lollllll


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## Sapherosth (Jan 10, 2017)

professor83 said:


> He could throw Kunai At 25-30m and strike amidst kamui wrap




Hahaha, in that case Gaara can raise a sand wall faster than Kamui AND Minato's FTG. 

Gaara > Minato confirmed.

Reactions: Like 1


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## The_Conqueror (Jan 10, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> Yeah, by nearly blind Kakashi, and that's not base


Who could take out gedos arm in an instant at that point


Troyse22 said:


> that's not base Minato lollllll


Read right to left all start with their jutsu minato throws kunai then comes senjutsu


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## Troyse22 (Jan 10, 2017)

Sapherosth said:


> Hahaha, in that case Gaara can raise a sand wall faster than Kamui AND Minato's FTG.
> 
> Gaara > Minato confirmed.



Yeah that was a piss poor argument on Profs part

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Troyse22 (Jan 10, 2017)

professor83 said:


> Who could take out gedos arm in an instant at that point



That was long after the GM thing. Kakashi of the Kamui spam is literally nearly totally blind at this point.


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## Turrin (Jan 10, 2017)

Sapherosth said:


> Hahaha, in that case Gaara can raise a sand wall faster than Kamui AND Minato's FTG.
> 
> Gaara > Minato confirmed.


In that situation Gaara can raise a sand wall faster than Kamui or Minato's-FTG attack. Because both Kamui and FTG took more prep time than Gaara rasiing a Sand wall. For that all Gaara has to do is place his hand on the ground raising the wall. While in Kakashi's case he needs to activate Mangekyo, Build up Chakra to his Sharignan, form the Barrier around a specific space, and then suck the target in. In Minato's case he needs to throw FTG Kunai across that distance, enter SM, form Rasengan, and then use FTG to teleport to the target, then launch his attack.

FTG and Kamui are faster and more difficult to evade in other scenario's though. For instance if Kakashi already has Mangekyo activated and chakra built up to his eye, then all he needs to do is create the barrier space and suck the target in, this may be faster than Gaara can form a Sand-Wall, or if Kakashi already has the barrier space made, the act of sucking in the target is faster than Gaara's Sand-Wall for sure. Like wise if Minato already has a FTG mark near the enemy, and an attack ready to go, then him just telporting to that mark and attacking will be faster than Gaara's Sand-Wall.

These are all things to consider when comparing the speed of each action, that on top of the obligatory Kishimoto being inconsistent with speed and the element of catching a person by surprise which Minato's FTG can do better than Kamui, which can in turn do better than Gaara's Sand. A person not on guard will of course be easier to hit than a person on guard.

Reactions: Like 1


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## The_Conqueror (Jan 10, 2017)

Minato did throw the Kunai before madaras feet and enter SM before gaara raised his sand.


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## Sapherosth (Jan 10, 2017)

Turrin said:


> In that situation Gaara can raise a sand wall faster than Kamui or Minato's-FTG attack. Because both Kamui and FTG took more prep time than Gaara rasiing a Sand wall. For that all Gaara has to do is place his hand on the ground raising the wall. While in Kakashi's case he needs to activate Mangekyo, Build up Chakra to his Sharignan, form the Barrier around a specific space, and then suck the target in. In Minato's case he needs to throw FTG Kunai across that distance, enter SM, form Rasengan, and then use FTG to teleport to the target, then launch his attack.
> 
> FTG and Kamui are faster and more difficult to evade in other scenario's though. For instance if Kakashi already has Mangekyo activated and chakra built up to his eye, then all he needs to do is create the barrier space and suck the target in, this may be faster than Gaara can form a Sand-Wall, or if Kakashi already has the barrier space made, the act of sucking in the target is faster than Gaara's Sand-Wall for sure. Like wise if Minato already has a FTG mark near the enemy, and an attack ready to go, then him just telporting to that mark and attacking will be faster than Gaara's Sand-Wall.
> 
> These are all things to consider when comparing the speed of each action, that on top of the obligatory Kishimoto being inconsistent with speed and the element of catching a person by surprise which Minato's FTG can do better than Kamui, which can in turn do better than Gaara's Sand. A person not on guard will of course be easier to hit than a person on guard.




No, it's simply a team effort.

Your whole analogy about Kakashi is messed up.

Kakashi did this entire process "While in Kakashi's case he needs to activate Mangekyo, Build up Chakra to his Sharignan, form the Barrier around a specific space, and then suck the target in" faster than Susano arrow could hit him. Furthermore, Kakashi outright stated he couldn't even move out the way in time even with sharingan.


To say that Gaara moved to the ground to raise the wall faster than Kakashi can use Kamui is ridiculous because that would mean Gaara is faster than Susano arrow and faster than Kakashi physically AND mentally.

Reactions: Like 1


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## The_Conqueror (Jan 10, 2017)

Sapherosth said:


> To say that Gaara moved to the ground to raise the wall faster than Kakashi can use Kamui is ridiculous


Read right to left gaara started with his Jutsu first 
Then kakashi started kamui at the same time minato threw Kunai before madaras feet
Gaara had already placed his hand to activate the jutsu and then kamui and ftg came.


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## Troyse22 (Jan 10, 2017)

professor83 said:


> all start with their jutsu





professor83 said:


> gaara started with his Jutsu first




Just shut up dude


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## The_Conqueror (Jan 10, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> Just shut up dude





professor83 said:


> *Read right to left* all start with their jutsu minato throws kunai then comes senjutsu


Gaara already had his hands on the ground before minato threw Kunai or kakashi activated kamui.


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## Sapherosth (Jan 10, 2017)

professor83 said:


> Gaara already had his hands on the ground before minato threw Kunai or kakashi activated kamui.





Wouldn't that just mean Gaara > Kakashi and Minato in reflexes and movement speed? Lmao.


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## The_Conqueror (Jan 10, 2017)

Sapherosth said:


> Wouldn't that just mean Gaara > Kakashi and Minato in reflexes and movement speed? Lmao.


How?
Gaara starts his jutsu first. (On the right)
Then minato throws a kunai under madaras feet and kakashi prepares for kamui.
Minato could throw a kunai under madara feet before gaaras sand wall /Kamui
wrap started.

Before any of the three started with their respective jutsus gaara already is in position to perform his jutsu. So gaara raised a sand wall before kamui wrap/minatos teleportation. There is not a single movement in gaaras part. He is already in position with his hands on the ground(*on the right*) before either of minato and  kakashi started with their jutsu.


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## Sapherosth (Jan 10, 2017)

professor83 said:


> How?
> Gaara starts his jutsu first. (On the right)
> Then minato throws a kunai under madaras feet and kakashi prepares for kamui.
> Minato could throw a kunai under madara feet before gaaras sand wall /Kamui
> ...




What? 

Doesn't change the fact that Gaara reacted faster than both of them. Similarly, Minato was the one who set things up before Tobirama and people are wanking Minato so hard because of that. How come when Gaara act before Minato/Kakashi no one bats an eye?

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## The_Conqueror (Jan 10, 2017)

Sapherosth said:


> What?
> 
> Doesn't change the fact that Gaara reacted faster than both of them. Similarly, Minato was the one who set things up before Tobirama and people are wanking Minato so hard because of that. How come when Gaara act before Minato/Kakashi no one bats an eye?


Where did gaara react at all? All he did was raise a sand wall from a favorable position. He was already in position before either of minato(finished) and kakashi (started) with their respective jutsu.

Which was the tobirama case? Minato did set up markings around jubbi.


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## Icegaze (Jan 10, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> Lol, Kisame would have time to pull off Jutsu before Minatos Kunai reach him or Deidara. You people talk like Minato throws his Kunai 20+meters at the speed of light.
> 
> You're so full of shit it's actually hilarious.





You act like kisame has not been hit by projectile tossed at him before he could pull off any jutsu 

Sadly this happened to him twice on panel 

Let's ignore Minato being able to throw a Kunai and get in front of juudara before kamui wrap could happen 



I can admit I got my flaws but you on another level of faulty

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sapherosth (Jan 10, 2017)

professor83 said:


> Where did gaara react at all? All he did was raise a sand wall from a favorable position. He was already in position before either of minato(finished) and kakashi (started) with their respective jutsu.
> 
> Which was the tobirama case? Minato did set up markings around jubbi.




Are you serious?


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## Icegaze (Jan 10, 2017)

@Sapherosth 
If Minato threw the Kunai after the sand wall was up does that mean he tossed the Kunai over the wall ? Then it landed without anyone seeing the Kunai travel ?

If so doesn't that make the feat even more ridiculous 

Or do you think the Kunai travelled straight through before the wall was up 

I get coordinated attack and all but what's mostly shown here is the quickest way to distract juudara with an attack was through minato attacking 

This is further illustrated when gaara says his sand isn't fast enough and Minato replies take my Kunai 

I have yet to see anyone in the manga casually avoid a projectile thrown at them with enough distance to not be in FTg range 

I mean kisame on 2 occasions couldn't even avoid them 

Remember I or you can throw a weapon quicker than usain bolt can run


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## JiraiyaFlash (Jan 10, 2017)

PhantomSage said:


> Deidara would be taking flight while Kisame floods the area with Suitons to prevent FTG tags from being set up


Flood with suiton aint gonna be problem for Minato due to giant summons.

And Deidara's flight also can be interrupted by Summons too.. Plus, ıf Sasuke tricky fuma shuriken reached and hit him.. Then Minato's dozens of Kunai must be problem for him.




PhantomSage said:


> Deidara can have a clay clone to go underground and set up mines with Moguragakure or he can have Kisame do it with Subterranean Voyage. Make a wrong move? Blondie gets his brains blown out.


This is a random encounter.. If they're try to implant some bombs in front of Minato ? Then they're gonna dead by Shunshin.. Remember.. Even Hebi Sasuke's shunshin forced to Deidara take a flight off.. So Minato should be done far better shunshin attack .




PhantomSage said:


> Kisame fuses with Samehada to live from C4



Samehada is not an inorganic creature.. Its organic.. So they're both die ... Plus Minato have sensor chakra + senjutsu + and even Summons have nature energy and senses. (due to their attacks were senjutsu attacks) So how is gonna happen ? ...



PhantomSage said:


> Bunta gets blown up with a bomb that took out the Sanbi.


Minato can basicly redirect it. Plus Deidara's C0 barely killed Manda.. And all other C2 bombs tanked by much smaller Snakes ?! So Deidara gonna take out 3 Bijuu Size Summon ? .



PhantomSage said:


> Once Waterdome comes up, Kisame can come around and thrash Minato around while Deidara drops clay fish and stuff in to harass him.


Water Dome -> Summons - Speed - FTG
Plus ıf Minato able to get in SM (which is interesting he is not good at SM but he was able to get in instant. So Samehada fused Kisame might be gonna turn to a stoneboard.

If deidara or Kisame gonna marks by Minato before.. Than that clay fish gonna blow on one of them's back. Tricky..

Dont get me wrong ım not sayin they have no chance to win or what so ever. But these aproaches can be nullified by Minato pretty easily due to his feats and portrayal.

Kisame & Deidara better compatible duo than Kisame & Itachi... But still they're


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## Sapherosth (Jan 10, 2017)

Icegaze said:


> Pretty much
> howvever it's still
> Quite clear minato was able to
> Exploit a window as simple as blocking LoS
> ...






STILL trying to wank it.


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## Icegaze (Jan 10, 2017)

Sapherosth said:


> STILL trying to wank it.





Still trying to ignore the fact that just as often as itachi has landed genjutsu Minato has gotten his mark close to his target 

Wasn't cuz the let him 

Or did that slip your mind


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## Turrin (Jan 11, 2017)

Sapherosth said:


> No, it's simply a team effort.
> 
> Your whole analogy about Kakashi is messed up.
> 
> Kakashi did this entire process "While in Kakashi's case he needs to activate Mangekyo, Build up Chakra to his Sharignan, form the Barrier around a specific space, and then suck the target in" faster than Susano arrow could hit him. Furthermore, Kakashi outright stated he couldn't even move out the way in time even with sharingan.


Kakashi's statement is an example of Kishimoto's inconsistent depiction of speed in the manga. There is no realistic way that the Susano'o arrow was launched and crossed that distance faster than Kakashi could side step it, but slower than Kakashi could initiate the entire process for using Kamui; realistically speaking.

I say this because of all the other examples of Kakashi using Kamui.

When Kakashi uses Kamui against GM's Head in Ch 595, we see Obito and Naruto are able to continue fighting during the process of Kakashi building up chakra, activating Mangekyo, and then warping it's head. This would mean going back to the previous statement that both Naruto and Obito move so much faster than Kakashi, that he couldn't even physical respond to their movements in the slightest, but later of course we see Kakashi taking on Obito 1v1; so that makes no sense.

Now you can say in that case it's due to GM's head being a big object and Kakashi can warp smaller ones faster, but Susano'o Arrow isn't a small object ether. Additionally even when Kakashi already has Mangekyo activated and likely chakra built up to it, and is warping only a small Kunai, we still see Naruto's Chakra Arm cross at least a side-step's worth of distance in that time frame towards Obito's face, before Kakashi completes the warp:
said that 
said that 

Which would mean Naruto's KCM Chakra arms too fast for Kakashi to physically react to. Which again doesn't really make much sense because we see Obito reacting to them and again Kakashi kept up with him. Also in general they were never depicted as having the speed to outright blitz characters like Kakashi w/o them being able to move a muscle in general.

We could also go back to the Pain-Arc and look at how Kakashi warped Asura's missile which was big then the Kunai, but still smaller then the arrow:
said that 
said that 

And how even Choji is able to move more than a side-step away before Kakashi warps the missile away.



> To say that Gaara moved to the ground to raise the wall faster than Kakashi can use Kamui is ridiculous because that would mean Gaara is faster than Susano arrow and faster than Kakashi physically AND mentally.


The scene was bullshit to enable Kakashi to survive Susano'o arrow. In the same vein as some of the BS Kawarimi-Log, Genjutsu/Clone-Feints, etc... feats that Kishi uses as a dues ex machina plot device to enable characters to survive shit that they otherwise should not have been able to, when he's written himself into a corner. In Gaara's case, he would have just magically swapped places with a Sand Clone in that moment or some other such nonsense.

In-fact we've seen that exact nonsense from Gaara. Where he somehow magically swapped Onoki with a Sand-Clone in the split instance before Mizukage shoots him:
said that

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1 | Informative 1


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## Troyse22 (Jan 11, 2017)

Turrin said:


> Kakashi's statement is an example of Kishimoto's inconsistent depiction of speed in the manga. There is no realistic way that the Susano'o arrow was launched and crossed that distance faster than Kakashi could side step it, but slower than Kakashi could initiate the entire process for using Kamui; realistically speaking.
> 
> I say this because of all the other examples of Kakashi using Kamui.
> 
> ...



Ding ding ding we have a winner


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## Sapherosth (Jan 11, 2017)

Turrin said:


> Kakashi's statement is an example of Kishimoto's inconsistent depiction of speed in the manga. There is no realistic way that the Susano'o arrow was launched and crossed that distance faster than Kakashi could side step it, but slower than Kakashi could initiate the entire process for using Kamui; realistically speaking.




Good, at least you are aware that Kishi is inconsistent with his depiction of speed, and some of Minato's feats ARE inconsistent, yet people like you still treat it as if it's legit while saying other people's feats are inconsistent. 

It was outright stated in the manga that the Susano arrow was too fast for Kakashi to physically move but can mentally react. We've seen that shit before with Lee and Sasuke back in part 1. This feat was legitimized by Kakashi's own statement. There is no two way about it.


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## Turrin (Jan 11, 2017)

Sapherosth said:


> Good, at least you are aware that Kishi is inconsistent with his depiction of speed,


I literally said that in the post you originally quoted:

*"These are all things to consider when comparing the speed of each action, that on top of the obligatory Kishimoto being inconsistent with speed"

*


> and some of Minato's feats ARE inconsistent, yet people like you still treat it as if it's legit while saying other people's feats are inconsistent.


Where have *I* treated all of Minato's feats as legit? _*I*_ have been extremely outspoken on the subject of Kishimoto's inconsistency with speed throughout the manga. For example Minato's interception feat w/ 8th-Gate Gai is Bullshit imo as well.

Edit: To further clarify I believe FTG's Unpredictability is more important than it's Raw Speed. For example Minato suddenly appearing behind Ei, when he didn't expect it allowed him to attack R2-Ei before he could react, but B seeing Minato the moment he appears was able to react in time. Despite the fact that Base-B is inferior to R2-Ei in reaction-speed. Same thing with the second time Minato used FTG against R2-Ei. Ei was left completely baffled as to where Minato disappeared to and couldn't react in time, because he wasn't expecting Minato to teleport to a marking he placed on B's tentacle, but B probably aware of the marking having been placed, reacted in time putting a sword behind his back to Minato's chest.



> It was outright stated in the manga that the Susano arrow was too fast for Kakashi to physically move but can mentally react. We've seen that shit before with Lee and Sasuke back in part 1. This feat was legitimized by Kakashi's own statement. There is no two way about it.


I agree that the Susano'o arrows are suppose to be that quick, what I don't agree with is that the entire Kamui process is faster than Kakashi can side step to left. For all the reasons I outlined here. If Susano'o arrows are so fast Kakashi can't move a muscle in response to them, then Susano'o arrow should have also been faster than Kamui, and Kakashi being able to intercept the arrow with Kamui is simply a bullshit feat, akin to Minato intercepting Gododama faster than 8th-Gate Gai, or Kwarimi-Log Bullshit.

In-fairness though, Kishi later also depicts SM-Kabuto being able to dance around Susano'o attacks and arrows, but then Itachi is able to keep up with SM-Kabuto's speed, and Kakashi in-turn kept up with Itachi's speed multiple times. So the whole thing seems like a mess. Which is why I don't take it that seriously.


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## Sapherosth (Jan 11, 2017)

Turrin said:


> I literally said that in the post you originally quoted:
> 
> *"These are all things to consider when comparing the speed of each action, that on top of the obligatory Kishimoto being inconsistent with speed"
> 
> ...






Not sure how you can argue with such a flat out statement and claim that you believe in the "portrayal" argument in this manga. Kishi outright portrayed Susano arrows as being too fast for Kakashi to avoid. Did you not read the whole Lee vs Sasuke in part 1? 

Also, most of the feats you brought up is nothing in comparison to all the other feats that support Kamui being faster than movement speed in general. 

As for the case about Minato, you seem to believe that Minato's feats with Gaara's wall/Kakashi's Kamui are legitimate feats. Pretty sure that's a BS feat too, yet you seem to believe otherwise.


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## Turrin (Jan 11, 2017)

Sapherosth said:


> Not sure how you can argue with such a flat out statement and claim that you believe in the "portrayal" argument in this manga. Kishi outright portrayed Susano arrows as being too fast for Kakashi to avoid. Did you not read the whole Lee vs Sasuke in part 1?


Portrayal is not just statements it's how something is depicted in the story overall. Just because something is stated doesn't mean I'm going to take it as indisputable Law, if I have many examples from the story contradicting it. For example Hiruzen was stated to be stronger than Hashirama. Did a-lot of people initially put a-lot of stock into that statement, sure they did, but then the story presented us with many examples contradicting this, and now almost everybody excepts that statement was bullshit. It's the same thing here, the statement hold weight, but the many examples that occur before and after that interaction that contradict it, make me not take it seriously.



> Also, most of the feats you brought up is nothing in comparison to all the other feats that support Kamui being faster than movement speed in general.


I brought forward 3 examples, ontop of the example that was already in contention (The Gaara, Minato, Kakashi scene), which makes 4 in total.

So please show me over 4 examples of Kamui being faster than movement speed of High-Tier characters.



> As for the case about Minato, you seem to believe that Minato's feats with Gaara's wall/Kakashi's Kamui are legitimate feats. Pretty sure that's a BS feat too, yet you seem to believe otherwise.


Explain to me why you think it's BS.


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## Dr. White (Jan 11, 2017)

Obito Kamui'd through a V1 Ei blitz casually while mid sentence.

Double Kamui was the only hope for stopping TBB balls.

Kakashi had to Kamui an arrow he couldn't physically dodge.

Dogshit kamui kakashi caught Diedara who was mid flight

Obito casually switched from offensive Kamui to defensive Kamui in order to dodge Kakashi/Gai from blindsiding him.

Young AF Obito was in a deadlock battle vs Minato/Hirashin resembling a high skill Iado battle. 

It's literally one of the fastest jutsu that' really only been countered with knowledge, prep, or perfect ability counter.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jan 11, 2017)

Sapherosth said:


> Not sure how you can argue with such a flat out statement and claim that you believe in the "portrayal" argument in this manga. Kishi outright portrayed Susano arrows as being too fast for Kakashi to avoid. Did you not read the whole Lee vs Sasuke in part 1?



The Susanoo arrow, not Susanoo itself.



> Also, most of the feats you brought up is nothing in comparison to all the other feats that support Kamui being faster than movement speed in general.



In your eyes, we should ignore things like Kakashi getting moving targets with accuracy since he used it on Deidara?



> As for the case about Minato, you seem to believe that Minato's feats with Gaara's wall/Kakashi's Kamui are legitimate feats. Pretty sure that's a BS feat too, yet you seem to believe otherwise.



_*You're*_ saying someone has a faulty take on feats. 
Jokes aside, I'm sure you have as to why it is BS rather than "cuz I says so"... you do, right?


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