# How Do You Actually Take Down Edo Minato



## Turrin (May 26, 2013)

I'm not trying to make a Minato wank thread, because god knows there have been enough of those after this chapter, but ever since Chap 631 came out I've been struggling to try and think of a way that it's actually possible to take down Edo Minato given his feats. 

The guy is an Edo Tensei, so one has deal a destructive enough blow to stop Minato's movements long enough to seal him. But the problem is Minato can use FTG to teleport himself away even when immobilized. So a-lot of the ways the Edo Tensei have been stunned enough to be sealed in the war simply won't work on Edo Minato. Therefore the only way it seems like Edo Minato could be stunned long enough to be sealed is if someone head-shots him, thus rendering his ability to think, to use FTG to escape the sealing process, useless. 

However with Minato's physical speed/reflexes amplified by KCM & him being able to now sense killing intent with KCM, how can someone catch him off guard enough with a nuke or attack where he can't simply teleport the attack or himself away to a safe distance? 

Now before this the simple solution to the problem would be to wait until Minato got exhausted and than from there take him out, but Edo Minato renders this strategy useless as well since he will never become exhausted. He can teleport attacks and himself limitlessly if he had to. Now maybe someone could outlast Minato's KCM & that would make it easier tho?

There's always the avenue of Genjutsu, but we saw A vs Madara, that due to A's speed he needed to be held down and in place for the Genjutsu to work. This pretty much means landing Genjutsu on Minato would face the same problem as landing Fuuinjutsu, as a blow to sufficiently stun Minato enough to not use FTG would still be required; once again leaving us with the question of how that blow would be landed.

So i'm just wondering what techniques, combos, or whatever can you guys think of that could actually get past Minato's defense to take him out. Excluding the whole using Genjutsu on Orochimaru to release Edo Tensei; because that's the only viable strategy I have been able to think off so far (though knowing Kishi's love for Minato, if that happened Minato would probably free himself like Madara).

Anyway would love to hear peoples thoughts and I'll keep trying to think of various combos and Jutsu as well, & post ones when I do come up with them. Also just a side note this is not about how strong Minato is, this is just about how good his defense is, so please don't confuse the two issues.


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## Bonly Jr. (May 26, 2013)

Easy

You can't. Just about anything and everything is dodged.


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## RBL (May 26, 2013)

Obito > Minato (is not that difficult man) BM Naruto was having some problems with Obito's paths, and he was in BIJUU MODE.

this minato is KCM Minato, he got no chance against obito

and madara, well madara stomps edo minato.


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## Turrin (May 26, 2013)

Minato Namikaze said:


> Easy
> 
> You can't. Just about anything and everything is dodged.


Let's not go crazy that would make Minato untouchable, which I seriously doubt is the case. Pretty sure Rikudon Sannin at the very least could do something to hit him.


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## Bonly Jr. (May 26, 2013)

Brandon Lee said:


> Obito > Minato (is not that difficult man) BM Naruto was having some problems with Obito's paths, and he was in BIJUU MODE.
> 
> this minato is KCM Minato, he got no chance against obito
> 
> and madara, well madara stomps edo minato.



Only way Obito puts people down is Kamui, which gets dodged with FTG, as seen in their previous encounter.



 



Turrin said:


> Let's not go crazy that would make Minato untouchable, which I seriously doubt is the case. Pretty sure Rikudon Sannin at the very least could do something to hit him.



It's true. KCM Naruto's speed > V2 Ay's. Meaning, Naruto in KCM was the fastest, shunshin wise. Now, Minato can access this Shunshin speed *and* has FTG at his disposal. How the heck can he be touched? Heck, Minato without KCM was never show to be hit, in the manga, WHEN ACTUALLY FIGHTING. (please don't show me Naruto punching him in the stomach, lmao). Now mix KCM with the bunch, and you have untouchable Minato.

RS really doesn't count, he's practically a god.


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## Alicia (May 26, 2013)

Undo the Edo Tensei jutsu


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## KyuubiFan (May 26, 2013)

I'm fairly certain that Sage Kabuto, Hashirama, the current Obito and Rin'negan Madara can defeat him. They all have what it takes to defeat him, a strong defense and big AoE attacks. Madara and Hashirama are especially dangerous for him with Kajukai Kourin and the AoE stun it gives.


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## Alex Payne (May 26, 2013)

Hashirama with landscape destroying Mokuton followed by pollen might knock Minato out(assuming it would work on Edo). Low chances of that happening though. Direct attacks wouldn't work at all. All those meteors, 'damas and other nukes would be warped away. Minato shouldn't be able to warp things Jiraiya's Goemon so SM Jiraiya with good backup and plan might be able to catch him with it. Low chances again though. Chou Shinra Tensei might work, assuming Minato can't warp at a completely different location and then warp back. People with poison inside their bodies(Hanzo, Orochimaru) would be able to knock Minato out if he attacks in CQC. Deidara's C4 Garuda should work too most of the times, assuming Dei survives long enough for that.


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## joshhookway (May 26, 2013)

Minato is too fast for any of Hashirama's attacks. he can literally teleport anywhere he wants.


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## crisler (May 26, 2013)

First of all,

Genjutsu. He had no guaranteed defense against genjutsu before, nor does he have it now. What he does have is, the speed that would make it almost impossible to catch one. However, if he is caught, then he'd be in danger like others regardless of his KCM or not. 

And against sound genjutsu, something he can't avoid simply unlike visual ones, he'll have trouble like how the uchihas had trouble with kabuto.

Second,

Jutsus that are just way to much even for minato. Attacks that literally change the landscape, etc...minato can warp away attacks, but I'm not sure if he can warp away all the attacks coming right  after one. Consecutive bijuu damas, PS slash, mokuton attacks will force minato to not warp those attacks but to avoid and this might be effective

Third,

The one thing that minato lacks is a good defense. He has a perfect speed that makes up for the defense, and normally this isn't a problem, but sometimes they are. Attacks like Tenbenchii that juubi used, deidaras' C0, C4,   meis' acid vapour, mokuton flower thing...do you see? these attacks are wide ranged and doesn't disappear as fast as it should for minato to be safe. 

susanoos' would be much more effective as a mean to protect the user than hiraishin against these attacks, and this is where minato might have trouble. He might just go back home, but then there's no guarantee he may return cuz the kunais' may be get destroyed. And if minato senses these attacks he better go away as soon as possible cuz they're pretty fatal.


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## Dade (May 26, 2013)

If he faces Naruto, TNJ will end Minato, and he would just fade away (emotional connection).


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## Ƶero (May 26, 2013)

He's practically untouchable. Closest thing to beating him I can think of is powerful sound genjutsu like frog song and even that's iffy.


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## Lurko (May 26, 2013)

Hashi and madara seem to be the only possible anwsers right now.


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## Stermor (May 26, 2013)

what you want is a strategy that doesn't require physical abilities.. since nobody is fast enough to catch him you are going to need a trap.. 

essentailly you want to put somebody (the lamb(clone preverably).. and then flood the room or what ever with fast acting neurotoxin(invisible to the naked eye,and without smell, or chakra, any other sign).. 

basically force(or lure) him somewhere you control the battlefield then allow the battlefield to provide the knockout.. and neurotoxin would not allow minato to move. edo would regen it.. but toxin would still be there keeping him still(basically regen versus new toxin).. then just get somebody with a seal.. 

strategy is just made up but the point is.. don't allow him to play to minato strentghs(his mobility) so use a strategy that takes mobility out of the equation.. this ofcourse is quite hard to do, but it is not impossible..


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## tanman (May 26, 2013)

Some Edos are definitely harder to seal than others. Obito and Minato namely would be incredibly difficult Edos. It's hard to imagine how one seals an Edo teleporter who is aware of how Edo Tensei works. We're certainly going to see it happen, though, so keep reading.


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## Kai (May 26, 2013)

BM Naruto should be more powerful and the best fit shinobi to fight Edo Minato despite inferior speed, which should be a relatively minor disadvantage considering his other advantages over his father. Naruto has clones, AOE chakra pressure, greater amount of chakra arms, greater overall physical power, and comparable Shunshin speed to take out Minato's kunai. In terms of defense? Minato won't be able to get through Naruto's shroud with anything less than Shiki Fuujin based on his offensive feats (so far) and Naruto's durability ones against Tobi's bijuus and Juubi. 

Juubi can take anything Minato throws at him, including its own attacks, and it can't be sealed by Minato. Furthermore, wherever Minato ports it on the planet Juubi will always be a fatal threat to him as it has the power to destroy the entire world.

Hashirama should beat Edo Minato if he eventually pulls out _all_ of his resources to counter Minato's speed. That includes Sage Mode, Flowering Trees World, Mokuton Bunshin, Darkness genjutsu, Mokuton Dragons, and Shinsuusenju. We know Hashirama can combine multiple Mokuton jutsu simultaneously and his tremendous battlefield control should eventually land a hit on Minato, and when he does his Mokuton can absorb or suppress Minato's chakra shroud to just about guarantee his loss.

I'm uncertain how Minato will fare against Madara. Logically, Madara should be above Minato based on events to come but based solely on events that have transpired, Minato can deal with all of Madara's displayed jutsu. Minato may beat Madara because of Madara's more arrogant nature and approach to fights.

Jutsu
Kotoamatsukami- The jutsu doesn't require eye contact so it will always be a threat to anyone. It manipulates Minato's awareness.

There's a slightly longer list for jutsu that can defeat Minato if they land on him, but his speed and reflexes make them all improbable. Koto is actually a _possibility_ against Minato as he blissfully knows nothing about it.

As of right now, Hashirama, Naruto, and Juubi should all be stronger than Edo Minato. Madara may join this list shortly and so will Sasuke when his time comes. Tobi is also a possibility if Minato actually stops trolling his own words (Tobi > live Minato though).


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## Jagger (May 26, 2013)

The high amount of extremely powerful clones made by BM Naruto and their extremely high stamina, great durability and huge firepower will give Minato one hell of a problems. Maybe Naruto can't really touch him, but decieving Minato can be a pretty good idea. Before you all say Minato is Aizen-level of intelligence, Naruto is well known for tricking people with his shadow clones. 

The problem with KM Minato is that he can literally escape from the battlefield without any problems and that makes him extremely hard to kill, if he's forced to stay for one reason or another, Edo Madara and Hashirama have chances as well. If Madara can use the Rinnegan at its fullest, his firepower is even greater than Madara's.

There's nothing Minato can do to take down the Juubi unless he sacrifices himself, but that won't be a win, but a draw.


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## ImSerious (May 26, 2013)

you dont


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## Turrin (May 26, 2013)

Just to clarify I'm asking who can get through minatos defense not so much who he'd loose to


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## Eliyua23 (May 26, 2013)

Well in the Obito fight , he showed it was pretty tough to penetrate his defense , as S/T jutsu has been shown to be the best defense and the best from CQC, Base Minato just teleported a blast from ten tails, if ten tails raw power can't harm Minato then who other than maybe Rikudo can harm Minato, now on top of that you give him Kyuubi Chakra which grant him top tier durability as well, so now even if he is struck by a blow it wont even really harm him,

Genjutsu is out due to his speed and mastering Kurama chakra

Taijutsu is out due to S/T

Ninjutsu is out due to S/T

I just dont see it, I think the best way to penetrate Minato's defense trying to sense his movements and being able to react similar to what killer bee did, you need sensor skills and a good defense yourself, but shit thats just Base Minato , then we find out he can blitz you with just base speed, to be honest maybe Kishi will show us in Thr next couple of chapters how to counter S/T jutsu .


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## Trojan (May 26, 2013)

the best way or ways. 

1- To be Naruto, he's the only one allowed to hit Minato as we saw already. 
2- Trying to attack Naruto, Minato eventually will take it instead of his little son.


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## Dade (May 26, 2013)

Eliyua23 said:


> Well in the Obito fight , he showed it was pretty tough to penetrate his defense , as S/T jutsu has been shown to be the best defense and the best from CQC, Base Minato just teleported a blast from ten tails, if ten tails raw power can't harm Minato then who other than maybe Rikudo can harm Minato, now on top of that you give him Kyuubi Chakra which grant him top tier durability as well, so now even if he is struck by a blow it wont even really harm him,
> 
> Genjutsu is out due to his speed and mastering Kurama chakra
> 
> ...



I was thinking about this too.. I think Madara or Sasuke will be the ones to show us how to negate S/T attacks.


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## Bonly (May 26, 2013)

One way would be to beat Edo Minato is to have the caster of the Edo Tensei undo the jutsu sending Minato bye bye but thats assuming the caster doesn't get stopped before the undoing is complete. 

Other then that im not quite sure.


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## Stermor (May 26, 2013)

Bonly said:


> One way would be to beat Edo Minato is to have the caster of the Edo Tensei undo the jutsu sending Minato bye bye but thats assuming the caster doesn't get stopped before the undoing is complete.
> 
> Other then that im not quite sure.



minato could pretty much teleport the caster away just as easily as himself.. 

no if you wish to catch minato you have to negate or circomvent his mobility.. which can be done by altering the battlefield in your favor.. or well i can't think of anything else


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## Bonly (May 26, 2013)

Stermor said:


> minato could pretty much teleport the caster away just as easily as himself..
> 
> no if you wish to catch minato you have to negate or circomvent his mobility.. which can be done by altering the battlefield in your favor.. or well i can't think of anything else



If Minato teleported the caster away then wouldn't make it easier for the caster to undo the jutsu?


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## Stermor (May 26, 2013)

Bonly said:


> If Minato teleported the caster away then wouldn't make it easier for the caster to undo the jutsu?



i was more assuming that if somebody else cast edo tensei.. minato could port him somewhere his opponent will never find him/never catch up to...


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## Bonly (May 26, 2013)

Stermor said:


> i was more assuming that if somebody else cast edo tensei.. minato could port him somewhere his opponent will never find him/never catch up to...



But that wouldn't stop the caster from being able to undo the jutsu though.


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## Joakim3 (May 26, 2013)

Short of _Maga: Gamarinsho_, flower world tree or him royally fucking up and looking at a high-tier MS genjutsu..... one simply doesn't take down Edo Minato 

Even _Shinra Tensei_ (the only physical attack he can't react to) does nothing as he can still teleport while regening


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## Stermor (May 26, 2013)

Bonly said:


> But that wouldn't stop the caster from being able to undo the jutsu though.



true it wouldn't..  but really if he pulls a madara you are fucked.. something that is not unlikely.


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## Trojan (May 26, 2013)

Joakim3 said:


> Short of _Maga: Gamarinsho_, flower world tree or him royally fucking up and looking at a high-tier MS genjutsu..... one simply doesn't take down Edo Minato
> *
> Even Shinra Tensei (the only physical attack he can't react to) does nothing as he can still teleport while regening*



don't you think his RM will protect him from any damage? @_@


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## Gibbs (May 26, 2013)

A rinnegan user who has Uzumaki level knowledge with seals. 

Theoretically a bansho tennin+ preta path combo, then a soul suck and or shiki fujin should work.


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## Datakim (May 26, 2013)

Here is another question. We have seen that the edos that are sealed are trapped in that cloth, and the seal tags then make that cloth basically unbreakable (Second Tsuchikage was unable to tear off the seal tag from his sealed other half). I presume then that the sealed edos are basically frozen and trapped and utterly helpless in a prison that prevents all movement and which is virtually unbreakable. Thats fair enough.

But what about Minato? I mean for the sake of argument, lets say somehow Minato WAS caught and trapped in one of those cloth seals with the tag on it. He would be unable to move. Unable to speak. Unable to make hand-seals  or anything.

But the thing is, Minato does not need to do any of that to escape. His teleportation ability seems to be purely mental, where he just "thinks" and Hiraishin activates. So what would stop him from just teleporting out of the cloth-seal even IF he was *fully *and *completely *trapped in one? Would the seal prevent him from using his technique? That seems unlikely, since if there existed a seal or barrier that could block space-time techniques, then surely we would have heard of them already (would have been vital against Obito).

It would seem to me then, that the only way to stop Minato would be to use one of the rare techniques which forcibly separates the soul from the body. Shiki Fuujin would work, if you managed to catch Minato before he teleported away (plausible since the Shinigami is invisible). Rinnegans soul-suck path would also work if a rinnegan user managed to touch Minato. The soul-sucking dragon Nagato used would also work, if it managed to hit Minato and if Juubi is still able to use that. Not sure what else would work.


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## WolfPrinceKiba (May 26, 2013)

High level sound genjutsu like Gamarinshou and SM enhanced Mugen Onsa would work best to counter him, followed by Hashirama's and Madara's flower tree worlds pollens. Basically your best bet is to have a technique that renders him immobile and unable to teleport, preferably one with a wide AOE and/or will affect him when he gets in close(like Orochimaru's WSM vapors).


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## Turrin (May 26, 2013)

WolfPrinceKiba said:


> High level sound genjutsu like Gamarinshou and SM enhanced Mugen Onsa would work best to counter him, followed by Hashirama's and Madara's flower tree worlds pollens. Basically your best bet is to have a technique that renders him immobile and unable to teleport, preferably one with a wide AOE and/or will affect him when he gets in close(like Orochimaru's WSM vapors).


Why would Minato be unable to teleport when these techniques were used against him though.

Flower Tree World has zero chance of working imo because Onoki with WOF overcame it long enough to use dust release, so I have no doubt that any Hokage could overcome it with WOF long enough to use FTG. So that one to me isn't even worth discussing.


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## Bonly Jr. (May 26, 2013)

FTW gets Hiraishin'd away


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## αce (May 26, 2013)

Flower Tree World was destrotyed by Oonoki. Until I see a technique from Minato that can destroy an entire battlefield of pollinating trees I'm going to say that technique fucks him up.


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## Rocky (May 26, 2013)

What if he teleports the entire forest?  

I mean, in Base he had the capacity to port an entire bomb larger than the Juubi, which approaches Shinsuusenju in size. With the Kyuubi Chakra, Minato should have the ability to send the forest somewhere else, no? (Though Hashi would just make a new one)


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## Bonly Jr. (May 26, 2013)

Rocky said:


> What if he teleports the entire forest?
> 
> I mean, in Base he had the capacity to port an entire bomb larger than the Juubi, which approaches Shinsuusenju in size. With the Kyuubi Chakra, Minato should have the ability to send the forest somewhere else, no? (Though Hashi would just make a new one)



Adding to this, Minato ported Kurama out of Konoha without touching it. Plus, the OP specified Edo Minato, so he can repeat the process.


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## αce (May 26, 2013)

Flower Tree World is omnidirectinoal and covers an entire desert. He'd have to fly in the air, look down and teleport the entire forest away.


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## Rocky (May 26, 2013)

So he jumps in the air and does that i guess.


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## ueharakk (May 26, 2013)

αce said:


> Flower Tree World is omnidirectinoal and covers an entire desert. He'd have to fly in the air, look down and teleport the entire forest away.



he doesn't have to teleport the entire forest away.  Oonoki was able to counter the technique by just removing a small portion of it.  

If Base minato can instantly port the Juubidama, KCM Minato should be able to teleport at least as much of FTW as oonoki destroyed.


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (May 26, 2013)

Rocky said:


> What if he teleports the entire forest?
> 
> I mean, in Base he had the capacity to port an entire bomb larger than the Juubi, which approaches Shinsuusenju in size. With the Kyuubi Chakra, Minato should have the ability to send the forest somewhere else, no? (Though Hashi would just make a new one)



Or he summons Bunta and has him spit oil and then proceeds to throw an explosive tag thus igniting it and burn down the entire forest.


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## Kai (May 26, 2013)

Turrin said:


> Why would Minato be unable to teleport when these techniques were used against him though


Frog Song would actually work if Minato is caught because the genjutsu is stated in both manga and databook to completely paralyze the mind, and we see this when the paths are foaming at the mouth. 99% of genjutsu manipulate the senses and chakra flow to alter perception, but frog song completely leaves the victim as a vegetable.

Basic motor functions let alone Shunshin and Hiraishin won't be able to be accessed.

Of course, Minato won't fall to a jutsu of such extensive preparation time.


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## Turrin (May 26, 2013)

αce said:


> Flower Tree World was destrotyed by Oonoki. Until I see a technique from Minato that can destroy an entire battlefield of pollinating trees I'm going to say that technique fucks him up.


Why can't he just teleport himself out of range of the pollen.



Kai said:


> Frog Song would actually work if Minato is caught because the genjutsu is stated in both manga and databook to completely paralyze the mind, and we see this when the paths are foaming at the mouth. 99% of genjutsu manipulate the senses and chakra flow to alter perception, but frog song completely leaves the victim as a vegetable.
> 
> Basic motor functions let alone Shunshin and Hiraishin won't be able to be accessed.
> 
> Of course, Minato won't fall to a jutsu of such extensive preparation time.


Fair enough on frog song the others I find suspect though.


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## the_symbol_of_rebirth (May 31, 2013)

Brandon Lee said:


> and madara, well madara stomps edo minato.



How? With what jutsu?


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## PopoTime (May 31, 2013)

Edo Madara with Iruka's immobilisation seal should cut it.

Iruka's seal was able to hold Sage Naruto in place, and required KCM to break it.

If Edo Madara performs the seal, he can preta path Minato's KCM away, and he cant move.

That "stops" Minato in his tracks


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## Bonly Jr. (May 31, 2013)

PopoTime said:


> Edo Madara with Iruka's immobilisation seal should cut it.
> 
> Iruka's seal was able to hold Sage Naruto in place, and required KCM to break it.
> 
> ...



Namikaze Hiraishin's out of that seal


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## Jinemba (May 31, 2013)

Hashirama Bringer of Darkness, GG

Based on its showing in part one Hashirama has a genjutsu that can blind the victim instantly without eye contact until the victim lands a hit on Hashirama. And if you are fighting Hashirama blind.....well that is GG. And I know Minato has sensing but that is useless because Hashirama has undetectable clones. 

Here is the Combo: Clones > Bringer of Darkness > Mokuton Spike from directly below or Flower Tree World


The only thing that can be argued here is what Minato can do right at the start like attack or set up but without pre set seals directly on Hashirama nothing can be done in time before those clones come out and once they are out Hashirama is free to set up anything at any time. 

And Madara can react and block Bijuu Mode Naruto attacks which would naturally mean Hashirama could do the same meaning Bijuu Mode speed cannot blitz him.

Madara could win as well. Mokuton just counters Minato's style to hard, Mokuton allows full field control meaning any and all FTG seals can be destroyed immediately, at the same time it grants undetectable clones making sneak attacks almost useless and at the same time risky since you are attacking Mokuton which can be used as a counter attack. Both Hashirama and Madara have shown top tier sensing on par with Minato's sensing with is just another layer of defense against sneak attacks. And on top of that Madara has a perfect susanoo and an added layer of defense and offense and Hashirama has auto regeneration and the body of the Sage with just makes him incredibly hard to kill if you don't finish him with one big blow.


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## LostSelf (May 31, 2013)

Sage Mode Hashirama is here. And he beats him. Byakugo and his wood clones trickery should be enough as to avoid death by his speed. His long range mokuton can destroy every Kunai he throws. And Bringer of Darkness can work on him perfectly. Specially if Hashirama uses pollen world to sleep him.

We also have Toon Deva. But i don't need to say why Toon Deva shows his oponents who's boss.


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## Trojan (May 31, 2013)

TheIronMan said:


> Sage Mode Hashirama is here. And he beats him. Byakugo and his wood clones trickery should be enough as to avoid death by his speed. His long range mokuton
> 
> 
> 
> ...



1- How the wood will destroy the Kunais exactly? 
2- BoD did not even stop an old Hiruzen!


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## narut0ninjafan (Jun 1, 2013)

It would be tough for sure. 

It depends on your interpretation of Hiraishin but if you think it's just high speed movement, you could potentially lure him into an area with a clone maybe and then immediately set up the violet flames barrier like the Alliance did with Dan and then get the caster to release him. But you'd need to set it up quickly enough before he realises what's going on and warps away again, which would be tough. 

Alternatively maybe you could snipe him with Shintenshin if you're lucky and use the Amber Sealing Pot?


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## crisler (Jun 1, 2013)

Break down things into bits and you'll see.

For example...Deidaras' C4 is a killer for both of them if they aren't unaware of what's happening.

Poison gas would be the same,

Mokuton flower thing is the same as well,

Genjutsu works just fine against both of them whether it's visual ones of auditory ones.


The issue is that it's just difficult to utilize these methods effectively against such talented fighters. 

In fact thanks to his eyes which detects almost everything, Edo Madara is more difficult to deal with when he's got shinra tensei and susanoo for defence, plus his eyes for insight and mokuton/susanoo for offense.


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## LostSelf (Jun 1, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> 1- How the wood will destroy the Kunais exactly?
> 2- BoD did not even stop an old Hiruzen!



1-The woods were strong enough to return a bijudama, handly Kyuubi, etc. Hashirama's hand wood sends all of Minato's Kunais to the pollen world .

2-Hiruzen > us.


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## copydog123 (Jun 1, 2013)

What is Minato's defense? Warping away incoming objects?

In that case, you need someone who can attack simultaneously from multiple sides. As odd as it may sound, Zetsu seems a very good choice. Yes in Kishi's manga, he doesn't stand a chance.

In battledome logic, he can merge with the ground and trees and see far. so not impossible that he can mess with minato's kunai placement in the battlefield.

moreover, it is hard to say what minato can or cannot simply warp away. He warped away bijuudamas and people sometimes (and kurama). but didn't warp away obito, madara, or the juubi. so that logical hole needs to be filled.


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## copydog123 (Jun 1, 2013)

Well Hashirama obvoiusly. another one who can attack from multiple direction with mokubunshins (especially as he shows no lack of chakra).


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## Trojan (Jun 1, 2013)

TheIronMan said:


> 1-The woods were strong enough to return a bijudama, handly Kyuubi, etc. Hashirama's hand wood sends all of Minato's Kunais to the pollen world .
> 
> 2-Hiruzen > us.



1- True, but if Minato already placed them, the only thing the wood will do is perhaps to cover
them or to change their places, but that won't stop the telportation. and As we know from the
latest chapters Minato can strike them very fast with huge distance! 

2- True.


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## Shattering (Jun 1, 2013)

Sage Kabuto has at least 2 jutsus to stop Minato, the first one he used against Uchiha Bros and Sound Genjutsu
Hashirama's flower  or eternal darkness would do the trick...
Izanami without knowledge woul be enought too
Frog song
Totsuka/Amaterasu if lands would finish him
Bunshins... he has no way to detect them

Anyway you are making this thread as if Minato had an unlimited number kunais everywhere in the world, that's stupid... one could simply spend his time destroying Minato's kunais until he doesn't have anymore.

We should remember too that current Minato's strongest attack is a rasengan that wasn't able to kill kid Obito, he has to show us something able to kill a top tier, Naruto's giant rasengan was tank by ribcage susano'o for example...


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## LostSelf (Jun 1, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> 1- True, but if Minato already placed them, the only thing the wood will do is perhaps to cover
> them or to change their places, but that won't stop the telportation. and As we know from the
> latest chapters Minato can strike them very fast with huge distance!



Yeah, but he can control where Minato should teleport. If he puts all of Minato's kunais in one place, he just have to attack from all sides with his forest and he could have Minato pressured there.



> 2- True.



Hiruzen is waiting for the Juubi to reach it's final form to steal the spotlight. He doesn't want to bother himself against this pityful version.


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## Turrin (Jun 1, 2013)

So the counters I've seen in this thread are

*Wouldn't Work*

Flower Tree World
Hashi's Mokubushin 
Bringer of Darkness
White Rage
Mateki: Mugen Onsa
Izanami

These are all interesting Ideas but I do not think any would work and here's why.

Flower Tree World - has the chance to actually hit Minato do to the pollen, but if Onoki can will himself awake long enough to use a Jutsu, I know that Kishimoto would have Minato be capable of doing the same. And all Minato needs to use is 1 just, FTG, to teleport his ass out of the range of the pollen. Heck with his new KCM mode he could probably Shunshin outside the range of the pollen.

Hashi's Mokubushin Fusing into the trees and than attack while stealth, is an interesting idea but Minato would sense them with KCM (Naruto sensed stealth Zetsu with KCM after all). 

Bringer of Darkness fails for the same reason that Minato's new KCM senses would allow him to navigate through the darkness, this is assuming Bringer of Darkness can't simply be broken by Minato, as Bringer of Darkness really doesn't have any feats of sticking on shinobi of Minato's level. 

White Rage - Edo Itachi was able to still use a jutsu during this, why wouldn't Edo/KCM Minato be capable of the same thing? And all he needs is 1 jutsu FTG to teleport himself away from Kabuto preventing a successive attack or teleport the White Rage blast away ether way this fails.

Mateki: Mugen Onsa - Only binds a person's movements it doesn't stop a person from using their abilities as we saw with Itachi & Sasuke using Sharingan Genjutsu, which means Minato can just teleport himself away.

Izanami - doesn't work on someone who accepts their fate, so Minato will be unaffected. 

So while these are all good Ideas they ultimately fall short due to the additions of Edo buffs & KCM ontop of an already broken character. However I do think there are some possibilities that have been brought up that could work.

*Could Work in Theory, but next to impossible to execute*
The one thing I saw could work in theory is Frog Song as it binds both the body and the mind preventing someone from using Jutsu and so unlike Mugen Onsa Minato couldn't simply teleport away if stuck. However due to the long prep time it seems doubtful that anyone could prevent Minato from killing the Toads before than or escaping the range of the Song if killing the toads wasn't an option. There is also contract seal to worry about  and one has to wonder about the fact that Minato is also a Toad contractor and thus should be able to interrupt the Toad Song at any time by just summoning Ma or Pa to him and than killing them, which if possible would totally negate this Jutsu effectiveness entirely. But assuming Minato can't just summon kill the Toads, than maybe and this is a big maybe Current BM Naruto could pull something like this off in tandem with Ma/Pa Toad.  

The other attack that could work is Shiki Fuujin. We've seen invisibility be successful in tricking KCM senses before (Chameleon & Mu). Chameleon and Mu wouldn't work though. Chameleon can't deal enough damage to stop KCM/Edo Minato and can't hold Minato due to FTG long enough for it's summer to deliver a successive blow to Minato, like we saw Nagato do to Naruto. Mu's invisibility won't work since he has to become visible to attack at and at that point Minato would sense the guy and with his reflex evade him. However Shiki Fuujin does not have these weakness it's a totally invisible attack that can bring Minato down in 1 shot.  While in theory this could actually down Minato - though at the cost of the users life - it would still be next to impossible to get this technique off against Minato successfully. First off you'd need to use the extended arm version that Minato displayed against Kyuubi, rather than the grab hold of the target close range version Hiruzen used against the Hokages, otherwise Minato would just react to your attempt to grab him and evade that way. 

So that begs the question can anyone even do this long range version besides Minato. For the sake of argument we could assume that Hiruzen might also be capable of it when he has more chakra to spare. So that limits us down to maybe Edo Hiruzen could pull this off. However there is also the issue that Minato would recognize the hand seals hiruzen is using and know Hiruzen was pulling out Shiki Fuujin and thus defend properly. So Hiruzen would have to block Minato's vision somehow long enough to form the seals w/o Minato noticing. This is a tall order for someone who as keen and quick as Minato. But ultimately it is theoretically possible to work, whether Edo Hiruzen could pull it off or not, will probably depend on what type of feats Kishi gives him in the comings chapters.

So yeah Shiki Fuujin and Frog Song seem like the only jutsu that could theoretically work, which means in theory the only shinobi who have shown jutsu that could beat the fourth's defense are Naruto, Hiruzen, and J-man. Though I have no faith in J-man executing Frog Song on Minato, so this leaves just Naruto & Edo Hiruzen. Again that's not to say these are the only characters I think can beat Minato, these are just the only characters who possess a shown jutsu that has the feats to overcome Minato's defense.


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## copydog123 (Jun 1, 2013)

Turrin said:


> So the counters I've seen in this thread are
> 
> *Wouldn't Work*
> 
> ...




You are assuming that hashi will fight in steps. As in, he attacks with pollen jutsu, if Minato gets hit, hashi does nothing until Minato dies. Otherwise, Minato wills himself back and hashi resumes battle.

That rarely happens. 

If minato's reflexes even temporarily slows down due to pollen exhaustion, hashi can continue his barrage of attacks from all directions and create advantage for himself. Unlike Kishi's manga (or any manga in general) where the villans just standby while the good guys are powering up or recovering, in battledome, such pnj won't exist. 

having said that, it is not obviously a sure win (or even a slim win) against minato. but it does open up possibilities that mass AOE jutsus form multiple angles combined with ultra high chakra and regeneration level can counter minato's advantages (even in KCM).

That confirmation may happen over the next several weeks when Madara and Juubi actually does something of substance. Then again you have kishi. who can simply use Oro to shutdown edo tensei and leave this whole debate in the balance.


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## Turrin (Jun 1, 2013)

copydog123 said:


> You are assuming that hashi will fight in steps. As in, he attacks with pollen jutsu, if Minato gets hit, hashi does nothing until Minato dies. Otherwise, Minato wills himself back and hashi resumes battle.
> 
> That rarely happens.
> 
> ...


So basically your saying the combo of Flower Tree World and perhaps another massive Mokuton technique like Buddha could work. Yeah I could see that having a chance, though not confirmed. However what I was responding to is the idea that Flower Tree World alone could finish Minato, not on whether or not a combo of Flower Tree World and another very powerful Mokuton technique would work.


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