# Star Wars: The Force Awakens



## Reznor (Dec 17, 2015)

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is *Here*


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## Reznor (Dec 17, 2015)

*Star Wars: The Force Awakens [Beware of Spoilers] - Part 2*

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is *Here*


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## Fang (Dec 17, 2015)

[YOUTUBE]cbpslRxy8T0[/YOUTUBE]


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## Lucaniel (Dec 17, 2015)

Bubyrd Ratcatcher said:


> I liked Rey and Poe.
> 
> For as much as I liked the actors, Finn and Kylo had terrible characterization.
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 



when you say "look"

he does physically resemble his father

to show off Naruto's new ougi


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## Fang (Dec 17, 2015)

Fang said:


> [YOUTUBE]cbpslRxy8T0[/YOUTUBE]



Subscribing


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## Stunna (Dec 17, 2015)

Yeah, all I _need_ is something better than TPM (my preferred prequel.)

I'm confident I'll get that much, though.


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## Harbour (Dec 17, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Han's death was done so-so. They held that goddamn saber's hilt too much, it looked like JJ wanted to make sure even the most stupid people that something terrible will happen now. And when it finally happens, it doesnt give the maximum feeling cause of that.

Also Kylo was pretty cool madman till he wear off his mask. "Im so torn apart". Lel. Couple of the lines he delivered in the dialogue with Han were lame. And he killed Han just like that. I knew there will be some background, but now he looks like 100% identical Sasuke copy. Even worse. We at least new that Sasuke came through nightmare life. Kylo looks like he torned apart because he had no father. Lel x2.


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## Jay. (Dec 17, 2015)

Just saw it


it was badass and i don't even like star wars


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## Harbour (Dec 17, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> he oughta spoiler tag, he's posting straight garbage



Your ass was covered in fire, wasn't it?


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## tari101190 (Dec 17, 2015)

Kylo is more like Zuko than Sasuke.


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 17, 2015)

tari101190 said:


> Kylo is more like Zuko than Sasuke.



Not by what I've read.


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## tari101190 (Dec 17, 2015)

Well based on what I saw for myself, I say Zuko.

I don't see how he's like Sasuke at all honestly.

I guess they're bothy whiny.


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## Lucaniel (Dec 17, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> *Star Wars: The Force Awakens*
> 
> i enjoyed this a fair bit. i was constantly comparing it to the prequel movies, and almost anything would be good by that benchmark, so it probably benefited from my generous mindset, but i think it was a solid movie.
> 
> ...



:byakuya


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## Orochibuto (Dec 17, 2015)

Just watched it, better than I expected.

Here is what I have to say:


*Spoiler*: __ 



*SPOILERS AHEAD*

Considering Snoke never appeared aside of a few shadowy holograms he may still be Plagueis. I got a lot of Plagueis-esque vibes from him. He had such an imposing presence, there is no way he is some random darksider that just roamed around all these years. He has to be an ancient Sith or something like that. He really has that ultimate darkside presence, not even Palps had that presence, if I am told he reconquered the Empire with his Force abilities alone I would find it believable. Which is why I now fear even more if he ends up being a random new character rather than a big reveal that tie in the other 6 movies together.

I couldnt understand a few things, is Rey Luke's daughter or sime shit. It was never explained why she is so strong, frankly I found it kinda hard to believe she defeated with zero Jedi training Vader's darksider equivalent that has been training for years. Even Luke who has Anakin's potential required training with Obi and freaking Yoda to get that good. And yes, I know the guy was weaker than Vader, but still Rey seemed to be way overpowered to me, Luke didnt got to that level until at least the first time he trained with Yoda. Not to mention she could expert pilot despite having never done it and was an expert in spaceships mechanics without ever learning. She seemed to have some sort of outright Force omniscience. She felt kinda like a Mary Sue. They better give some explanation in the following movies for her force abilities, like having Anakin's genes or some shit, because she is way over the top.

Also did the bad guys destroyed motherfucking Coruscant? They destroyed the Republic capital and it seemed like a city planet but I dont know if it was Coruscant, it was a very fast scene. I hope not, no matter how much you dont like the prequels, you just dont oneshot the Galactic Capital like that.

I liked the new weapon, multiplanetary destruction that doomed the solar system and made the Death Star look like a nut. You have to level up the threat level and this shit fucking delivered. I just hope we dont see remakes of that the next movies and we instead have the next planetary threats in the form of darkside devastation, in short I want to see how the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of The Force, Snoke seems like the guy to show it.


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## tari101190 (Dec 17, 2015)

No Rey isn't what you said as far as we know.


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## Gilgamesh (Dec 17, 2015)

Oro, Rey IS a Mary Sue


*Spoiler*: __ 




A great warrior that can take on a group by herself.
A great pilot.
A great engineer.
A great force user that can control it easier than Luke or Anakin.
A great lightsaber duelist that can take on a trained dark jedi/sith and result in a stalemate.




Meanwhile Luke got knocked out by a single Sand Guy in ANH. TFA starts with Rey kicking the ass of two alien raiders all by herself because of "Muh feminist power".

Then he gets his ass kicked from the start to the end of ESB, and only manages to finally beat Vader in ROTJ by using the Dark Side, before reverting back to the light and redeeming him.

He doesn't even kill the Emperor, instead, he gets beaten by him and saved by Vader.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 17, 2015)

Im sure Rey is great


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 17, 2015)

Saw it last night. It was very fun and funny too. 


*Spoiler*: _Gonna talk about quite a lot of the movie so yeah many spoilers here_ 



As I saw the movie I started to cross the few supposed spoilers I read here and there on the web. The movie definitely doesn't start with a lightsaber floating around space but with some ships from The First Order that are sent to Jakku to find Poe Dameron who was meeting with an elder person that had the location of Luke's whereabouts becuase The First Order want to get rid of the first Jedi. It was a good opening IMO, since it introduced us to many of the new characters. 

I also liked Finn's introduction in the movie. FN-28157 (I think was) is his code name and it turns out that these Stormtroopers aren't clones but soldiers that The First Order just take them away from their families and raises them as soldiers. (That didn't mean that the clones army was gone, nope, after Finn's desertion Kylo throws shade to Hux's forces as how he should deployed clones instead) It was a cool surprise to see for the first time some degree of loss when seeing that stormtrooper die in Finn's arms when they raided on that village Poe was gathering intel and also to see the use of blood in the scene in how Finn was very shaken of the deaths there. And it made me think too on how the previous films, both the OT and PT didn't use most of the time scenes that contained blood. Or at least having on your hands (or in your helmet in Finn's case) the blood of your allies or enemy. I just remember when Obi-Wan cut that thug's arms in Episode IV when he defended Luke and when Luke cut off the arm of that jeti-looking monster in Episode V, so here I appreciated how the death of a comrade was what made Finn realize that he couldn't continue to live in that lifestyle.

Kylo Ren's intro was cool too and they sure didn't waste time in showing his powers. I never saw a Sith in the past movies to able to use stop on mid-air a blaster's ray with using the Force. Usually we've seen the Force's usage in influencing/ordering from the Jedi to get things going on their way and to get their lightsabers to them, but this? IMO it put Kylo on an interest "tier" so to speak since I don't remember Darth Maul, Dooku, Grievous, Palpatine nor even Darth Vader being able to do that. Heck Darth Vader simply blocked Han's shots with his hand on Episode V and then use the Force to get his weapon from him. And Kylo even had the blast's ray on mid-air even when he was talking to Poe and it also stop when he retreated. (And Poe was funny when he told Kylo he couldn't exactly know what he was thinking with that "machine" mask) 

Finn and Poe's friendship was very dynamic and well earned, which is also the start of Finn's sense of humor. Its also as well where he gets his name, since Poe thinks it better to call him Finn than FN, etc. By then I began to think that Finn was really a new character with no link to the previous films give this. But anything this guy really was nervous and it was the start of many funny moments. His self "stay calm" lines and when he meets Rey its when his false bravado begins and it as well provides laughs. 

Rey is also another character that is the heart of the movie along with Finn. Rey shares a bit of Finn's background in that she was also taken away by from her parents from little but she's stayed on Jakku and can't live it because she is waiting for them to return. She saves BB-8 from being taken from a bad scavanger because BB-8 was given the missing piece of a map that led to Luke's location before Poe was captured, so the droid was on it's own until it cross paths with Rey. She lived like, basically inside one of these Empire walking-snow-robots from Episode V I think. Jakku is basically a walk-down-the-memory lane planet because there are a lot of stuff from the two previous trilogies. Even a helmet from the Rebels air forces too, which she puts on for a moment when she was eating.

Both Rey and Finn have good chemistry and Finn's crush on her (and I think Rey's on him too, but the sparks of love are definitely there) is very nicely welcomed in the movie. It wasn't a star-crossed and forbidden affair like the one between Anakin and Padme nor the tender-ish of Han and Leia. This one felt like earnest and cute, promising, geniune and juvenile in the good way. And its also funny how Finn continued to grab her hand to run away from the TIE fighters that were looking for him while Rey kept shouting to stop doing that. They really make a nice couple, I think Rey even was checking him out when he told her (and lied) that he was with the Resistance. You never get bored of them, really.

Even when Finn decided to tell Rey the truth about who he was (likely after hearing Han's advice of "women always finding out"), that he used to be with The First Order and that he ran away and acted to be with the Resistance she still didn't get mad at him. Instead asked him to stay with her/them to fight them. 

There were many fangasms in the audience. For starters when the TIE fighters were chasing them and Finn said they should escape in the toher ship but Rey said it was junk, but when her own was destroyed she said "the junk will have to do" and it turned out to be the Millenium Falcom. Lots of "woos!" and claps with that reveal in the movie. Han's and Chewbaca's return was also well received. (Even C3PO's I think)

The thing with Rey and Finn was that besides their chemistry together is that they represented a lot of the biggest Star Wars fans. For them hearing about Luke Skylwaker and Han Solo was fanboy material content. Finn considered Luke to be a myth and Rey admired Han, even if she viewed him more as a smuggler than a hero from the Rebels. She also saw him as the father she didn't had and they finished each other's sentences in a scene.

Now as for Supreme Leader Snoke...he really was "supreme" in a sort of way because damn, Andy Serkis said that Snoke was large but I disagree he was a freaking giant. Either that hologram communication proyection from where he spoke to Kylo and General Hux added him tons of pounds or he really is like a long lost cousin from Attack on Titan. No idea how they're gonna bring him down .(Yeah I'm using a pun ) He also had some scars around at the corners of where his lips form but thats all you can tell from him. He looks very alien-ish and is _big._ (Also the chamber from where he talked to them was very dark, gloomy and spooky, so it was cool)

And that is where the twist is revealed and it surprised me that it was done that early. That Kylo Ren's real name was Ben (I'm sure someone that has read the EU stuff knows where this must come from, personally I just knew it wasn't much of a coincidence) and that he was Han's and Leia's son. That Leia felt there was a lot of her father, a lot of Vader as she said, on Kylo so they sent him to be trained under Luke but even Luke failed as Kylo was seduced by Snoke and killed, I think, many of the other potential Jedis that Luke was training (All seen in that weird Force-induced flashbacks scenes when Rey is being called by Luke's lightsaber) and why Luke went M.I.A. for all this time. It makes sense because Luke not only failed as a Jedi master but also as an uncle to Ben/Kylo and by extension to Han and Leia. What remains a mistery is why Luke decided to isolate and search for, according to what Han said, the "first Jedi temple".

Funny thing about those flashbacks is that when Kylo Ren killed those people in that rainy collage of memories you could see he wasn't alone.  What isn't made clear is why Luke's lightsaber was there in Maz Kanata's vault.

I didn't mind Kylo Ren's anger tantrums and rage outbreaks. I found it interesting how he wasn't quite there yet in terms of being a calm and collected villain like Darth Vader and others like Dooku. Made him a bit more human that he couldn't contain his rage and decide to take it out on things with his cross guard lightsaber instead of people. (Well he did semi-choked one officer when he told him that Rey was with BB-8) It all rings some bells when Han confronts him about how he's just being used by Snoke for his power and that he'll be disposed once Snoke gets it. It goes back to what Adam Driver said about him, that he's "unpolished and unfinished" here. And him being Han's son adds to that too IMO. I am sure by Episode VIII and by completing his training with Snoke he'll be more in control of himself.

Han's death was very sad and its the thing I dreaded as I saw the scene unfold, with Han and Kylo standing alone in that long bridge. Chewbaca's scream reminded me a bit of when Han was frozen in Episode V. Poor Chewie. And yet Han died happy by having the opportunity to caress his son's face one last time, which Kylo was taken back a bit.

As for the lightsaber duels, turned out that there were two and it made sense why Finn lasted a bit against Kylo while Rey was unconcious. Kylo Ren was hit by one of Chewbaca's blasts after Han died and he was bleeding (another instance in which blood was seen again in the movie) and as he fought Finn he had to hit himself in the waist in order to stop the bleeding. Thought it was a nice detail and its that very same "nerf" that allows Rey to fight him later, now displaying more traits of the Force in her. (Something that Kylo Ren warned and told Snoke after he failed to get out information from her as he did it with Poe in the beginning)

I found in this instance the lightsaber duels to be a mix of Episode V and Episode VI, they were rough and aggresive and not so full of choreography. And it made sense since Kylo was damaged & Rey was just beginning to tap into the Force's powers. And Finn did always the best he could with what he had at hand despite not being a Force user. (Unless it turns out later in the remaining Episodes that he's even less unpolished than Kylo) So I expect that in Episode VIII Kylo will have finished his training as Snoke told told to Hux and so Rey will be more in touch with her powers. By then I think we'll get the same aggressivity and styled fighting with the lightsabers in the  next round of Rey vs Kylo.

And to finish with the lightsabers stuff I noticed that here they tried to portray the harm of them in different ways. Kylo use one of the ends of his cross guard weapon to harm Finn's shoulder while he had him pinne to a tree and then was quick to get behind him and slash him on the back, which is what renders him unconcious until the end of the movie. Meanwhile Rey use the tip of her lightsaber to sting Kylo's body in some parts of their duel. And the final parts of their fight looked to me a bit to Obi-Wan vs Anakin in Episode III when both Kylo and Rey held each other's arms, trying to make the other let got of their weapon but Rey made his touch the ground a lot until they were separated from the tremors around the planet due to the Resistance's pilots succeeding in destroying the core of the planet, but by then Kylo was pretty messed up and even more damaged. I got to see the movie again to see how much Rey managed to sting and hurt him with her sword.

That was pretty much all of it in the movie, but not without bringing back R2D2 to full operability to complete the map BB-8 had and with Rey (after biding Finn a momentary goodbye with a kiss on his forehead as he continues to rests from his injuries) and Chewbaca finding Luke in that island-ish and paradise-looking planet. I think the final scene where Rey finds him at the top of that mountain and holds out his own lightsaber for him to take could've needed some diaogue because I found it a bit hard to understand it. I guess Rey's expression as she held back some tears meant _"please take it, we need you, I need you to do this and we can't do this without you, etc"._ Likely Luke felt, like Leia, Han's death so judging by his resolved expression to Rey he's aware that he has to return. Or the whole exchange there was about Rey, after climbing all those stone steps to reach him, begging Luke to train her in the Jedi arts. 

Or it was a combination of all that I speculated.  And until we see th 8th installment, Rey's surname continues shrouded in mistery. And so Finn's even though so far his origin seems more original than a tie to the past films.

As for movie's flaws I think they should've done more with Gwendoline Christie's Captain Phasma character. I wouldn't say she's the Bobba Fett of the movie since Bobba went out hilariously and ridicuoulsy in Episode VI. Here her fate is supposedly left in a garbage chamber as Han made a reference to throw her in one, just like the one from Episode IV. But according to Rian Jonshon, she'll return in the sequel in Episode VIII so I hope we see more of her character. She definitely will want to get back at Finn. And I also think it'll be interesting if Leia gets to meet with Kylo after his parricide. Han and Leia were aware of Snoke so it sucks that Han couldn't live till he met Snoke and told him a piece of his mind for taking their son away. So maybe Leia will do it, who knows. But I'm sure that there is a redemption waiting for Kylo in the future.




So great fun movie that I wanna rewatch again.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 17, 2015)

I will probably go twice if I like it

one 2D one 3D



I actually went twice for RotS so yeah


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## O-ushi (Dec 17, 2015)

Saw the film. I remember awhile back J.J Abrams mentioning something about the film being on par with a new hope. That was a surprisingly accurate description of the movie. Its not a remake but it borrows so much from  "A New Hope, Return of the Jedi and even elements from Revenge of the Sith" that it feels like that. After how gutsy Star Trek reboots were, J.J Abrams and Disney has played it very safe with Star Wars. That is not to say its a bad movie, far from it, its actually solid and entertaining, the new cast are fantastic, and seeing the some of the cast from the original trilogy is great. Now that the pieces are in place I'm looking forward to see how they build up on it in the sequel.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Looks like Harrison Ford finally got what he wanted for Han Solo


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 17, 2015)

> *STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS Begins Its Box Office Domination*
> 
> Star Wars: The Force Awakens previews kick of in the U.S. tonight, but the movie opened in 12 foreign markets on Wednesday, beginning its B.O. run with a collective $14.1M. J.J. Abrams' critically acclaimed return to the galaxy far, far away is expected to earn between $180M-$220M over the weekend domestically, and such an impressive start to its international haul puts it well on the way to surpassing that on foreign soil - possibly even reaching Jurassic World‘s international debut record of $316.1M.
> 
> It remains to be seen if The Force Awakens smashes the all-time box office records held by the likes of Titanic ($2.18bn) and Avatar ($2.78bn) of course, but one thing's for sure: it deserves to. You can check out my 5 star review here, and be sure to let us know your B.O. predictions in the usual place.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Dec 17, 2015)

As a guy who went to the theatre with pretty low expectations(phantom menace was my standart), I can tell you that this film fucking sucked.

The first 1 hour was pretty decent, but then the shittyness pretty much turned into snowball effect and overtook the whole film.
Its as if the writers weren't paid properly and they fucked it up on purpose. I am still shocked by how gruesome the last 1 hour was.

edit :

Watched it on IMAX btw. Visually it was great, but this film had no soul, or a proper plot. And its as if a 6 year old wrote some of the script.


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## Gabe (Dec 17, 2015)

About to see it in a couple of hours


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## Fang (Dec 17, 2015)

I'm trying to remain impartial till I see the movie but seeing the low-brow posters deride it terribly is kind of making me take a more contrarian stance opposite to them


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## Orochibuto (Dec 17, 2015)

I loved the film..... except Mary Sue Rey.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Seriously, what the fuck? No Skywalker genes (as far as we know)or anything like that and she pretty much already have better feats than Luke in the entire trilogy and she is already at least as good as Anakin in Ep II, not to mention all her other abilities that just like her Jedi powers, she got from having near no training at all.

The only thing I can think about to explain that, is that maybe the midichlorian concepts was retconned out of the SW canon, where The Force had to be trained and even trained users were limited with what they could do with it and they took back the Force concept of the original trilogy where it was a 100% metaphysical field that had few users, but anyone that could access it could change the history of the galaxy and what can be done with The Force is only limited by what the user believes he or she can do, no chosen ones, just space wizards that can change the galactic history by virtue of accessing an infinite power.

If this is what was done, I don't know what to think about it, while the latter concept is way cooler in my opinion, you just can't retcon away something that was clearly established in the movie canon. However if the previous concept still apply, there will need to be a lot of explaining to do about why this woman has apparently more potential than the Chosen One.

Can someone confirm here if the Republic Capital the Starkiller destroyed was Corcuscant? I hope it wasn't, a planet so important can't be oneshotted so unceremoniously.

While the movie was cool, I feel they are pandering too much to the hate-PT fandom if they really destroyed Corcuscant and retconned away the midichlorians and PT concept of The Force.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Dec 17, 2015)

The thing is, you can lower your expectations as much as you can. But thats not going to prepare you for what you are going to see.
Sad but true.


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## soulnova (Dec 17, 2015)

I liked the movie a lot. Might be tied with a New Hope as a second favorite.


*Spoiler*: __ 




Is it just me or did they just foreshadowed Rey being Luke's daughter (or somehow related to her)? When Kylo was proving her mind, he mentioned she pictures an island when she feels alone.  Her blooming powers could be also a Skywalker trait.


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## The World (Dec 17, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> As a guy who went to the theatre with pretty low expectations(phantom menace was my standart), I can tell you that this film fucking sucked.
> 
> The first 1 hour was pretty decent, but then the shittyness pretty much turned into snowball effect and overtook the whole film.
> Its as if the writers weren't paid properly and they fucked it up on purpose. I am still shocked by how gruesome the last 1 hour was.
> ...



why haven't i put you on super ignore yet

must have forgot


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## Tranquil Fury (Dec 17, 2015)

The midichlorian concept was stupid to begin with and contradicted the OT, Yoda saying the force is not the flesh which matches up with the force ghost thing is more legit, The Force is more ethereal than organic. Plus young Anakin is bigger than Yoda and had more per cell, so 9 year Anakin would be stronger than Yoda which clearly was not true. They wanted to show Anakin was powerful so they made up some stupid power level measurement. The Plaguies novel goes into more detail, MCs don't guarantee force power, some specimens with high amounts had almost no force power. They are at best receptors to communicate with The Force.

Lucas made retcons just fine himself, another company/director doing them is not a big deal over a concept that was stupid and mostly ignored in all sources legend and current canon.


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## TasteTheDifference (Dec 17, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



i think it's pretty clear that rey is either a new chosen one or from the skywalker bloodline, that is to say she's supposed to be this impressive.  She has all the same aptitudes that anakin did; aviation skills, mechanical genius, tremendous connection to the force.  Imo she represents what kylo thought was his birthright, someone with the potential to match darth vader, except that while talented, he's not quite there, which ultimately led him to the dark side to seek power


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## Orochibuto (Dec 17, 2015)

Tranquil Fury said:


> The midichlorian concept was stupid to begin with and contradicted the OT, Yoda saying the force is not the flesh which matches up with the force ghost thing is more legit, The Force is more ethereal than organic. Plus young Anakin is bigger than Yoda and had more per cell, so 9 year Anakin would be stronger than Yoda which clearly was not true. They wanted to show Anakin was powerful so they made up some stupid power level measurement. The Plaguies novel goes into more detail, MCs don't guarantee force power, some specimens with high amounts had almost no force power. They are at best receptors to communicate with The Force.
> 
> Lucas made retcons just fine himself, another company/director doing them is not a big deal over a concept that was stupid and mostly ignored in all sources legend and current canon.



I agree that the original concept was way cooler than the PT one, but it as been enshrined into the highest canon by the PT, I don't like the PT Force concept, but you can't just handwave that again and literally just say "this never happened." 

They can't just retcon midichlorians away. Neither they can retcon away the Chosen One thing.

While OT Force can explain Mary Sue Rey, it would need to retcon away as in literally erase from the canon the midichlorian concepts as well as the Chosen One thing.


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## Rukia (Dec 17, 2015)

Plagueis Plagueis Plagueis.


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## KazeYama (Dec 18, 2015)

Orochibuto said:


> I agree that the original concept was way cooler than the PT one, but it as been enshrined into the highest canon by the PT, I don't like the PT Force concept, but you can't just handwave that again and literally just say "this never happened."
> 
> They can't just retcon midichlorians away. Neither they can retcon away the Chosen One thing.
> 
> While OT Force can explain Mary Sue Rey, it would need to retcon away as in literally erase from the canon the midichlorian concepts as well as the Chosen One thing.



They can retcon anything away. I think specifically once you get past ROTJ and Anakin bringing balance to the force anything is possible and everything goes out the window. Midichlorians are not the force. They are simply an explanation of how it works. The same way understanding biology doesn't tell you the meaning of life or whether or not god exists. 

Clone Wars was already moving that way and it had full approval and input from Lucas to begin with .  With everything we know about the force from Mortis, and the Yoda episodes in season 6 there is nothing to suggest that the force as a whole isn't flexible or changing. I mean Anakin becomes one with the force and he stops the sith and brings balance. That has nothing to do with whatever once again broke that balance in the past 30 years. Nothing in the prophecy ever said Anakin would bring balance and peace for all eternity. Kylo isn't sith and neither is snoke they make a pretty conscious decision to never refer to them as anything but dark side in the course of the entire film which implies something else. Same with Rey if the force is really changing dramatically as a result of Anakin then it may manifest or act in different ways. 

 I personally am backing the theory that Rey has some prior force training or skywalker blood but even without that there are plenty of ways to amend it to make sense beyond her being a mary sue. Plus I just hate that the term would even be thrown around with her when we still lack so much information. In a self contained story you could make that argument, but you have to consider the entire scope of the Star Wars saga and the future before you can make that judgement.


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## Mider T (Dec 18, 2015)

Luke is a pretty terrible Jedi.  So much for balance.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 18, 2015)

Happy Star Wars day everyone.


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## The World (Dec 18, 2015)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2ScVx4mRDE[/YOUTUBE]

gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawd i hate george pukas


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## Fang (Dec 18, 2015)

Mider T said:


> Luke is a pretty terrible Jedi.  So much for balance.


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## The World (Dec 18, 2015)

Mider T said:


> Luke is a pretty terrible Jedi.  So much for balance.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 18, 2015)

I saw that yesterday. I lost it at Darth Jar Jar. XD


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 18, 2015)




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## Legend (Dec 18, 2015)

Saw it at 7 pm, I really enjoyed it. I really need 8 to come soon.


*Spoiler*: __ 



A lot of it was a Rehash of the OT, I assume it was done on purpose so 8 and 9 will break new ground.


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## Suigetsu (Dec 18, 2015)

Everyone is blinded by hype.


*Spoiler*: __ 



It was literally a copy paste of new hope, with mary sue and all.
Daily reminder for all EU haters: Kylo is Jacen from EU, and Rey is Jaina from EU.

JJ wiped out the EU, just to extract the bits from it into his rehash of OT as his "original ideas".


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## The World (Dec 18, 2015)

when is 8 predicted to come out anyway?


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## Legend (Dec 18, 2015)

2017 if i recall correctly


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## Legend (Dec 18, 2015)

Suigetsu said:


> pffffttt hahaha People really liked this?
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



I see that, I dont anyone is going to argue that point. But what else was actually bad about the film?


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## Stunna (Dec 18, 2015)

Tranquil Fury said:


> The midichlorian concept was stupid to begin with and contradicted the OT


No, it didn't.

People don't seem to understand that midi-chlorians were not an attempt to scientifically explain the Force. The Force is still a supernatural entity. Midi-chlorians are simply organisms that gravitate toward the Force, and since they centralize around places (or people) where the Force's presence is great, Jedi used them to gauge someone's potential to attune.

Nothing about that takes away from the Force's mystical nature.


----------



## Fang (Dec 18, 2015)

The World said:


> when is 8 predicted to come out anyway?



Every two years:

Episode VIII following VII's pattern would be end of 2017

Episode IX following VIII's pattern would be end of 2019

Not sure how far along the spin-off movies like Rogue One, the alleged Boba Fett, and Yoda movies are supposed to be


----------



## Stunna (Dec 18, 2015)

Anyway, I just got back from seeing the movie.

I _enjoyed_ it, but they played it _way_ too safe in too many ways.

And, unfortunately, I find myself sympathizing with people who have labeled Rey a "Mary Sue."


----------



## Legend (Dec 18, 2015)

Rogue One is on track to be out in 2016


----------



## Kuromaku (Dec 18, 2015)

Stunna said:


> No, it didn't.
> 
> People don't seem to understand that midi-chlorians were not an attempt to scientifically explain the Force. The Force is still a supernatural entity. Midi-chlorians are simply organisms that gravitate toward the Force, and since they centralize around places (or people) where the Force's presence is great, Jedi used them to gauge someone's potential to attune.
> 
> Nothing about that takes away from the Force's mystical nature.



Yes and no. While the midichlorians themselves were not the cause of one's ability to use the Force, they did serve as an attempt to quantify it in individuals, and thus ruined its mystique in that regard. Furthermore, by their very presence, they introduced the concept of power levels to the franchise, which was just plain stupid given (up to then) the emphasis on the Force being a parable for faith, discipline, and spirituality (i.e. everything Yoda said and did the OT).


----------



## Fang (Dec 18, 2015)

Stunna said:


> No, it didn't.
> 
> People don't seem to understand that midi-chlorians were not an attempt to scientifically explain the Force. The Force is still a supernatural entity. Midi-chlorians are simply organisms that gravitate toward the Force, and since they centralize around places (or people) where the Force's presence is great, Jedi used them to gauge someone's potential to attune.
> 
> Nothing about that takes away from the Force's mystical nature.



The only reason some people don't completely hate the concept of Midi-Chlorians is because the Plagueis novel had Luceno make sense of the whole idea in the first place. Its still kind of silly and sort of waters down the more mystical and buddhistic idea of the Force but it doesn't bother me when both AoTC and RoTS don't even mention it.

Thankfully either way, Luceno made it work to give it a reasonable explanation outside of Force power levels from Episode 1.



Kuromaku said:


> Yes and no. While the midichlorians themselves were not the cause of one's ability to use the Force, they did serve as an attempt to quantify it in individuals, and thus ruined its mystique in that regard. Furthermore, by their very presence, they introduced the concept of power levels to the franchise, which was just plain stupid given (up to then) the emphasis on the Force being a parable for faith, discipline, and spirituality (i.e. everything Yoda said and did the OT).



Its interesting you talk about spirituality when ultimately the Prequel Trilogy/Rise of the Empire thematic is that the Jedi Order at this point is completely dogmatic, arch-traditionalists, and utterly hopeless while remaining further secluded by the fact they refuse to bend with the times.


----------



## Legend (Dec 18, 2015)

So Daniel Craig was the wise ass Storm Trooper who had a back and forth with Rey.


----------



## The World (Dec 18, 2015)

wow stunna making a sensible argument

*tiger woods golf clap*


----------



## KazeYama (Dec 18, 2015)

Fang said:


> Every two years:
> 
> Episode VIII following VII's pattern would be end of 2017
> 
> ...



Anthology movies are supposed to be same every other year so we get a SW movie every year atleast until the end of the 789 cycle. We have the confirmed Rogue One, Han Solo movie between 8,9 and a rumored Boba Fett or possible something else still vaguely being developed with an undetermined release date. 

Marvel can sometimes get away with multiple movies in a year but I dunno if the Star Wars universe has the legs for that. I imagine they are developing an overall long term plan similar to marvel and we are just in phase one. After that we could get an accelerated phase II if they are willing to really branch out with the anthology films they could do the old republic series of films 10,11,12, a 6.5 film similar to Rogue one or many other options plus it is a guarantee we are gonna get a TV option perhaps based on the unused Underworld scripts and a follow up animated series since rebels is wrapping up in a year or two.


----------



## The World (Dec 18, 2015)

Legend said:


> So Daniel Craig was the wise ass Storm Trooper who had a back and forth with Rey.



i thought he said he didn't want to be in this shit? 

looks like that james bond thing ain't working out for him


----------



## Stunna (Dec 18, 2015)

Midi-chlorians were unnecessary and silly, sure. Just not contradictory and myth-ruining like they're often made out to be.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 18, 2015)

Kuromaku said:


> Yes and no. While the midichlorians themselves were not the cause of one's ability to use the Force, they did serve as an attempt to quantify it in individuals, and thus ruined its mystique in that regard. Furthermore, by their very presence, they introduced the concept of power levels to the franchise, which was just plain stupid given (up to then) the emphasis on the Force being a parable for faith, discipline, and spirituality (i.e. everything Yoda said and did the OT).



I agree that it contradicted Yoda's teachings.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 18, 2015)

The World said:


> wow stunna making a sensible argument
> 
> *tiger woods golf clap*


shut the hell up


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 18, 2015)

Episode VIII comes out in May 26th, 2017.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 18, 2015)

Who was it that was talking mad shit about Finn the other day in here? Rinda? 

Dude was better than Rey, at least.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 18, 2015)

Also, having all these SW films rush out the woodwork is gonna cheapen the fuck out of the franchise.


----------



## Fang (Dec 18, 2015)

Well anyway:


*Spoiler*: __ 



If Kylo Ren and Rey really are the children of Luke and Leia + Han, I guess we'll find out who Rey's mother is and Luke's lover? It still seems like its essentially repeating the entire Legacy of the Force novels where Jaina's twin brother Jacen becomes Darth Caedus, Vader's grandson and heir before Jaina manages to kill him at the end.

And the whole Ren went axe-crazy and murdered his fellow apprentices of Luke's is kind of eerily paralleling Kyp in the Jedi Academy Trilogy in the old canon/pre-Disney Star Wars continuity. I mean there are differences, Rey and Ren are cousins instead of twin siblings but its still uncanny how much its following them. So I imagine Leland Chee and Hildago were in communication with JJ developing the story or advising references from old material.

Which they always said they were gonna try to do as much as possible. I still haven't seen it yet.


----------



## Kuromaku (Dec 18, 2015)

Fang said:


> Its interesting you talk about spirituality when ultimately the Prequel Trilogy/Rise of the Empire thematic is that the Jedi Order at this point is completely dogmatic, arch-traditionalists, and utterly hopeless while remaining further secluded by the fact they refuse to bend with the times.



I thought that the theme was that the Jedi and everyone else who could have stopped Palpatine were stupid bordering on riding the short bus to school given the sheer number of questionable decisions everyone seemed to make. Although that's probably more on the writing than anything.

On a more serious note, at the same time, in a better series of movies, just as the Vader revelation made us question Obi-Wan and Yoda on a moral level, the prequels could have shown that while there was still merit to the original concept of the Force and the dichotomies involved (detached harmony versus giving in to one's passions), even if those preaching and practicing this were themselves flawed (just as in real life even religions with positive messages can be practiced by those who fail on a moral level).

In short, Luke was a way to show what a Jedi should be as an ideal based on the messages in the OT, but the writing in the prequels which should have strengthened that final point...didn't.


----------



## Legend (Dec 18, 2015)

Finn needs a Purpose in Ep VIII


----------



## Fang (Dec 18, 2015)

Kuromaku said:


> I thought that the theme was that the Jedi and everyone else who could have stopped Palpatine were stupid bordering on riding the short bus to school given the sheer number of questionable decisions everyone seemed to make. Although that's probably more on the writing than anything.
> 
> On a more serious note, at the same time, in a better series of movies, just as the Vader revelation made us question Obi-Wan and Yoda on a moral level, the prequels could have shown that while there was still merit to the original concept of the Force and the dichotomies involved (detached harmony versus giving in to one's passions), even if those preaching and practicing this were themselves flawed (just as in real life even religions with positive messages can be practiced by those who fail on a moral level).
> 
> In short, Luke was a way to show what a Jedi should be as an ideal based on the messages in the OT, but the writing in the prequels which should have strengthened that final point...didn't.



Long story short: Jedi Order were assuming the Sith were dead and if they came back they would come back in full force. They didn't adapt like the Sith did, they didn't evolve with the new times. They kept themselves secluded from the public, generating disinterest and apathy while the Republic's Senate became more and more corrupt.

The ultimate reason for their fall is just like Yoda says it in the novel, they lost before they started because they failed to change themselves with the changing times. They were stale, stagnating, and hopeless.


----------



## Mider T (Dec 18, 2015)

Legend said:


> Finn needs a Purpose in Ep VIII



If we're gonna get allusions to Episode V in Episode VIII like we did here to Episode IV, then Finn will get incapacitated at the end of the movie.  Probably will set Rey off on a force rampage.  She's got her grandfather's prodigy with the force.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 18, 2015)

The next movie isn't going to get as much leniency as this one did if they decide to copy and paste "Empire's" plot.


----------



## Mider T (Dec 18, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



No attempt, an acute observation.  Luke failed to train any of the new generation of Jedi, instead his presumably best student became Sith.  When the aforementioned Sith starts taking over the Galaxy Luke disappears, no balance in the Force there.  When Luke senses the Force awakening with Rey and possibly Finn, no action.  I'm sure he felt Han in trouble too.


----------



## KazeYama (Dec 18, 2015)

Fang said:


> Well anyway:
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



The problem is its kind of hard to think of a new movie that ties in with the follow up to ep. 6 and not have it retread elements of the old EU. The old EU stuff pretty much covered every single angle so there isn't much JJ or the story group could do without retreading some old ground somewhere unless they went super far into the future where everyone was dead already. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



Also for Kylo Ren I liked his character while I hated Caedus passionately cause of how poorly thought out and developed his story is. Also the fact that he was never redeemed and just ended up dying was so antithetical to the main values of Star Wars that it really ruined his entire character arc and soured me on that entire series of books and stories. Kylo is basically a better realized version in every way unless the massively screw him up in future movies.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 18, 2015)

Stunna said:


> The next movie isn't going to get as much leniency as this one did if they decide to copy and paste "Empire's" plot.



So what I hear about Abrams using a "A New hope" as a template is true?


----------



## Stunna (Dec 18, 2015)

Almost beat for beat, dawg.


----------



## Legend (Dec 18, 2015)

Kylo reminded me of a Out of Control Anakin, fueled by pure emotion.

I think they went a bit of Copy/Paste to reintroduce what works in the series, but will hopefully veer off into a different direction and take more risks in the next two.


----------



## Fang (Dec 18, 2015)

The only reason Caedus' arc was bungled was because Karen Traviss, the third author, kept writing more fanfic tier crap about her literal original characters from the Republic Commandos novels; the super morally-and-ethically-always-in-the-right-can-not-be-argued-against-who-are-super-ultra-badass-Mando-Jedi-Force-User-fighters. Literally, every single one of her LoTF books has almost nothing directly to do with the Caedus main plot point unless it involves Boba Fett and his retarded teenaged daughter.

It was always some crap about Fett Clone template, trying to reverse the aging degeneration, and Fett growing up to be a fucking "grandpa" as if anyone legitimately cared.

Half of the follow up novels after hers were basically trying to make sense of what she was writing and both Dennings and Alliston weren't able to progress his development as a result.


----------



## Legend (Dec 18, 2015)

VII was a updated fusion of IV, V and VI. Which isnt necessarily a bad thing. The use of comedy was a pleasant unexpected surprise.


----------



## Mider T (Dec 18, 2015)

Stunna said:


> Almost beat for beat, dawg.



lol no.  It was similar but only in homage, copypasta would have had people walking out.


----------



## The Big G (Dec 18, 2015)

Fang said:


> The only reason Caedus' arc was bungled was because Karen Traviss, the third author, kept writing more fanfic tier crap about her literal original characters from the Republic Commandos novels; the super morally-and-ethically-always-in-the-right-can-not-be-argued-against-who-are-super-ultra-badass-Mando-Jedi-Force-User-fighters. Literally, every single of her her LoTF books has almost nothing directly to do with the Caedus main plot point unless it involves Boba Fett and his retarded teenaged daughter.
> 
> Half of the follow up novels after hers were basically trying to make sense of what she was writing and both Dennings and Alliston weren't able to progress his development as a result.



It was his Granddaughter and her name was Mirta Gev and she was legit.


----------



## Fang (Dec 18, 2015)

Yeah I meant to say granddaughter and she was legit shit.


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 18, 2015)

[YOUTUBE]sLl1N0FyqxE[/YOUTUBE]



Legend said:


> Finn needs a Purpose in Ep VIII



Something to fight for as he said? 


*Spoiler*: __ 



In the movie he said he just wanted to do the right thing. So there's that. If not I'd say he's fghting for (and with) Rey. Works for me.


 

As for Kylo Ren:


*Spoiler*: __ 



He must've had a huge inferiority complex being the son of two heroes, the niece of the last Jedi and the grandson of the chosen one that messed up things but then set them right and was also very powerful. Those must have been huge shoes to fill in so Snoke likely started from there to get him on the dark side.


----------



## KazeYama (Dec 18, 2015)

The new jedi order and legacy of the force books as a whole just eventually started treading off the path of star wars to me. It felt like reading a fanfic where people try to put their own angsty adolescent spin on star wars instead of keeping in line with the themes and tone of the originals. 

Basically the same complaints people had about the prequels the NJO and legacy books did the same except by about 10 orders of magnitude greater. They turned star wars into sci- fi. They might have been perfectly fine books if you changed the book cover and the names of things to be outside of the star wars universe.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 18, 2015)

Mider T said:


> lol no.  It was similar but only in homage, copypasta would have had people walking out.



*Spoiler*: __ 



Movie starts with the Empire/First Order attacking a place that's holding a Rebel/Resistance member of importance who, in desperation, hides the information that the villains are seeking in a droid, which escapes in a desert planet.

The droid is discovered and begrudgingly taken along by the protagonist, who is unaware of their fate as a Jedi.

Protagonists go to a den full of mysterious and questionable characters to find a new form of transportation to escape the villains.

There's a Death Star (but this one is bigger-er)

A father and son confront one another on a bridge overlooking a bottomless drop.

The Rebel base is located on a forest planet with temples and shit that looks just like Yavin.

There's a war on a snowy planet.

X-Wings traverse various trenches and TIE Fighters to destroy the Death Star 3.0



and that's just what I wrote before I got bored of listing things


----------



## Legend (Dec 18, 2015)

Rey has a Purpose/ Luke Expy
Poe is the Ace Pilot/ Han Expy
Finn is ???, we have a opportunity to have him be something totally different


----------



## Stunna (Dec 18, 2015)

That, and, Finn actually has dimensions to his character.


----------



## Fang (Dec 18, 2015)

KazeYama said:


> The new jedi order and legacy of the force books as a whole just eventually started treading off the path of star wars to me. It felt like reading a fanfic where people try to put their own angsty adolescent spin on star wars instead of keeping in line with the themes and tone of the originals.



I don't agree.

 NJO was fine in my eyes, Del Rey took over the Star Wars novel license and Lucas Arts wanted a darker and grimmer storyline where protagonists, allies, and friends aren't always "surviving" and actually dying instead of making it through the trial of fire by the skin of their teeth unscathed like how everything went down in Bantam's run of the books.

NJO was probably the most enjoyable major book series for me and plenty of others I know because it did that: it managed to bring the main continuity back to a more mystical sense while bringing in the new generation of the old cast's kids through the spotlight. 

With Chewbecca's death, Han's mental breakdown, the birth of Ben Skywalker, the untimely yet glorious final stand and death of Anakin Solo, and that very final poignant yet climatic scene where Jacen Solo embraces the Jedi path and the voice of Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader both tell him to "Stand firm" to defeat Omini. 

Also like KoTOR 2 that would follow during the run of NJO, there's lots of philosophical back and forth on the nature of the Force, the different sects of the Living Force, the Unified Force, the Cosmic Force, and so on. Like Traitor that basically redeemed Jacen's character as well as gave him the development that people stopped wanting him dead and got over Anakin's own death.

Legacy book series was a huge failure with everything said and mentioned plus the killing of Mara Jade.


----------



## Legend (Dec 18, 2015)

Stunna said:


> That, and, Finn actually has dimensions to his character.



I agree, so Im glad that he has soo much potential to not be pigeon holed. Im curious what his future is.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 18, 2015)

Rinda had me thinking Finn was swinging from tree to tree, unable to speak in full sentences.

Is the only problem that he was underused?


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 18, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



In that case i think Finn will continue to be the intel for the Resistance about any other thing he knows about The First Order, just like he was crucial about telling them of the Starkiller Base as they plan out the attack on it and rescue of Rey.

I also think about how Episode VIII could now start right after VII ends since they just found Luke. Leia will want to see him and they've been searching for him the entire time. So I expect Luke to be with the Resistance and their HQ as he also takes time to train Rey.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 18, 2015)

He wasn't underused, he was just relatively inept.


----------



## Legend (Dec 18, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> Rinda had me thinking Finn was swinging from tree to tree, unable to speak in full sentences.
> 
> Is the only problem that he was underused?



Poe was underused the most imo. Finn Rey and Kylo had the most screentime


----------



## KazeYama (Dec 18, 2015)

Yeah again they weren't poorly written and I actually enjoyed them it just seemed at times they stepped too far outside the traditional mythic structure established in the OT which is a sort of generic fantasy good triumphs in the end story because it was based on the premise of the monomyth and then the books intentionally went in a different direction where with the new movies I am fairly confident especially with Disney at the helm that we are going to see a closer reflection of the original tone and themes in order to appeal to a wide variety of people. 

Many of the people criticizing the new movie are doing so because it is predictable or a rehash, but that is what people want. I feel like the new movie is definitely gonna split the die hard fanbase in terms of reactions. There are some people who want something new and fresh because they watch the originals every week and if they get more of the same its a disappointment and then you have another group of people where all they want is more of the same because they love what has already been established so much that they will never get enough. 

I don't think Star Wars is ever gonna be some sort of ground breaking artistic achievement the same way the first one was or even the way something like Mad Max: Fury Road managed to be because if a director really goes crazy and presents something radically different you are gonna get a huge group of fan backlash that they weren't watching a star wars movie and that it loses the key elements.


----------



## Gabe (Dec 18, 2015)

Just got out from seeing it it was amazing reminded of the first time I saw Star Wars as a kid.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 18, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> Rinda had me thinking Finn was swinging from tree to tree, unable to speak in full sentences.




I did kind of think he was blowing it a little too much out of proportion


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 18, 2015)

i'd give this a 7/10 no pun intended at all. some scenes i could have done without and the ending was too short and awkward.

better than the prequels indubitably without question.
i'd rank it better than a new hope (empire>jedi>force>hope>clone wars micro>sith>menace>clones)


----------



## Mider T (Dec 18, 2015)

Well at least we know there can be no timeskip.


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 18, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



i liked Poe and finns relationship. short, simple and sweet. 

i gotta say when finn got hurt i was scared for him, i did NOT want him to die. mission accomplished JJ, you made me care ^^ hope this guy gets a good future in later movies.

rey, while i wish she were siblings with Kylo Ben, i didn't see any hints of her being related to luke.

i felt so sorry for poor chewie i felt like weeping for him 

i liked how the treated kylo's tantrums like a gag.

funniest part? BB-8 taking out a candle.


----------



## Mider T (Dec 18, 2015)

BB-8's candle was him flicking Finn off right?


----------



## tari101190 (Dec 18, 2015)

I'm really looking forward to ep 8 & 9. I want the rematch.

I really love Rian Johnson. Ep 8 is gonna be amazing.



Mider T said:


> BB-8's candle was him flicking Finn off right?


It was a thumbs up.


----------



## Gabe (Dec 18, 2015)

I enjoyed the movie there was some technical difficulties with the projector in the theater so it started later then it has to. It was packed all the 10 movie screens were showing the movie. Sucks I have to go to Work on a couple hours but it was worth it. Will probably see it this weekend again in 3D. Everyone gave it an ovation after it was done. Liked fin and Rey
*Spoiler*: __ 



she has to be lukes daughter, finn was funny sucks he is not force sensitive. Sucked when Han was killed everyone gasped when it happened. Sad to see him go when he first showed up in the movie everyone clapped and yelled to see Han and chewie together. Gwendalines character was disappinting thought she did nothing. Hope we get more of her and Poe in the next one. Poe was great to bad he was not in it as much as well. Bb8 is great I am buying the one they are selling where it is controlled by your phone. Ben is a good character he is easily angered and has fits he lost easily to Rey though maybe it was because he was injured. Great movie best star wars movie in a long time


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 18, 2015)

i looked at it as both. either way, it was quick and unexpected and cute x3


*Spoiler*: __ 



ben was shot by chewies crossbow, plus he was emotionally unstable, plus his training wasn't complete


----------



## Gabe (Dec 18, 2015)

Weren't there suppose to show the trailers for civil war and xmen before the movie all the trailers sucked for the exception of the batman vs superman one. The trailers they showed was the Chris Pratt movie about saving a ship or something and the kenanue reeves movie that was remade point break. Was expecting CW and xmen.


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 18, 2015)

Gabe said:


> Weren't there suppose to show the trailers for civil war and xmen before the movie all the trailers sucked for the exception of the batman vs superman one.



my theater played them along with out of the shadows and 5 phases. im glad no one clapped for those, it can get annoying


----------



## Legend (Dec 18, 2015)

I saw X-Men but no Civil War, the 3D was messing up until halfway through the Warcraft Trailer.


----------



## tari101190 (Dec 18, 2015)

I got Civil War & BVS & ID2.


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 18, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



i think the starkiller base was unnecesary and just there to give poe and co. something to do. i was expecting at least weakening it but destroying it? ugh. how are they gonna top this. and snoke I hope is really that huge in person


----------



## Legend (Dec 18, 2015)

Warcraft X-Men 5 Phases Independence Day Some Chris Pine Movie and some others


----------



## Mider T (Dec 18, 2015)

Wow, Erik Bauersfeld, who provided the voice of Admiral Ackbar in Return of the Jedi and Force Awakens, is 93 years old.


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 18, 2015)

Mider T said:


> Wow, Erik Bauersfeld, who provided the voice of Admiral Ackbar in Return of the Jedi and Force Awakens, is 93 years old.



bless him.


----------



## Gabe (Dec 18, 2015)

One thing I found cool was that
*Spoiler*: __ 



the guys from the raid where people Han owed money to. Also like how ren help the blast from Poe in mid air for a while. And it was funny when Rey tried to manipulated the storm trooper to free her and failed at first and then worked


----------



## tari101190 (Dec 18, 2015)

Yeah I was sooooo looking forward to seeing the Raid guys.

Was disappointed they didn't do more honestly. Just a cameo really.

Kylo's force powers seemed great.


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 18, 2015)

anyone else feel like some pieces could have been cut?


----------



## Mider T (Dec 18, 2015)

On the contrary, some things could have been added.  Can't wait for the Blu-Ray to see deleted scenes.


----------



## tari101190 (Dec 18, 2015)

The visual representation of Snoke. Would have preferred a disembodied voice, or obscured view of him rather than that.

But yeah, I wanted more of other stuff.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 18, 2015)

does Kylos mask come off ? do you see his face ?


just say y/n


----------



## tari101190 (Dec 18, 2015)

Yes he takes it off and you see his face.


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 18, 2015)

maybe its because i feel they zigzag between settings/planets


----------



## tari101190 (Dec 18, 2015)

Well you could cut the "take out the death star" type of storyline and replace it with something a little more original.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 18, 2015)

tari, was TFA better then Avengers 1/2 ?


----------



## tari101190 (Dec 18, 2015)

The only really good things about the Avengers films are that they are a team of superheroes assembling on screen to fight together. Avenger films are fun cos of the spectacle and the idea, more than the execution. Most directors I like would make better Avengers films than Whedon I think.

Force Awakens was a well rounded fun film that doesn't rely on action or spectacle. It admittedly relies on nostalgia a lot, but I don't personally have a nostalgic connection to Star Wars anyway. So I appreciated the storyline and characters without thinking it was too derivative. I cared about who I was seeing on screen and enjoyed seeing them go through the classic hero's journey too. This has like a classic adventure story feel to it. And things are only going to escalate and get better.

Not many films are perfect, so don't expect perfection. Still maybe not in the top 5 films of the year for me, but in the top 10 probably. Ultron is not.


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 18, 2015)

i can see why people would dislike this though.

*Spoiler*: __ 



i can understand the "its too MUCH like a new hope. its complete copy, its false advertisement of finn might being the force sensitive one, how they killed off han too early, some humor hit and miss, some ideas being a complete flop, some ripping off from the EU,


----------



## Orochibuto (Dec 18, 2015)

Legend said:


> Finn needs a Purpose in Ep VIII



How about giving Rey visions about his death, so that then Snoke turns her into the darkside with the promise of saving him?


----------



## Orochibuto (Dec 18, 2015)

bloodplzkthxlol said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> i think the starkiller base was unnecesary and just there to give poe and co. something to do. i was expecting at least weakening it but destroying it? ugh. *how are they gonna top this*. and snoke I hope is really that huge in person



I really hope "the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant, next to the power of the Force" gets translated into movie screen action, answering your question.


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 18, 2015)

or an assassin and a plot of building a clone army?



Orochibuto said:


> I really hope "the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant, next to the power of the Force" gets translated into movie screen action, answering your question.



i hope the next two movies will be more personal rather than trying to be this big thing.


----------



## WT (Dec 18, 2015)

Gabe said:


> One thing I found cool was that
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...



Bet you didnt know the guy who played thr storm trooper in that scene was Daniel Craig (James Bond)


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 18, 2015)

hmm favorite scene.......well i liked the final fight. it felt more real and heavy and there was a sense of pride in certain cases. it goes back to plinketts take on comparing the mustafar duel to that one james bond movie (die another day?)


----------



## Extravlad (Dec 18, 2015)

> was TFA better then Avengers 1/2 ?




Not even AOTC is worse than Avengers.


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 18, 2015)

lol avengers is just a movie celebrating its own existence.


----------



## Gilgamesh (Dec 18, 2015)




----------



## Bluebeard (Dec 18, 2015)

*Star Wars: The Force Awakens* - 8/10

It's been a while since a movie had me cheese (smile). This movie had me cheesing the whole way.
Thoughts:
-Adam Driver killed it as Kylo Ren. A huge worry for me was that they were going to try and emulate Vader too much but Driver and Abrams manage to craft Ren into his own character. He is a great villain.
-Rey. Daisy Ridley is the other standout. I love Rey.
-
*Spoiler*: __ 



Han's death was handled with class and elegance. Excellent filming when the light goes dark. Perfectly controlled the audience's emotions.




Also, I'm really curious on Benicio Del Toro and what kind of villain he will be playing. Hopefully Kylo doesn't stay on the sidelines too much during the next Episode.


----------



## Bluebeard (Dec 18, 2015)

Also Captain Phasma sucked. Which was pretty disappointing.


----------



## tari101190 (Dec 18, 2015)

I'm gonna start to speculate in the ep 8 thread.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 18, 2015)

captain phasma is almost as bad of a name as supreme leader snoke 


whats up with that


----------



## tari101190 (Dec 18, 2015)

Phasma sounds fine to me.


----------



## Gabe (Dec 18, 2015)

WT said:


> Bet you didnt know the guy who played thr storm trooper in that scene was Daniel Craig (James Bond)



I knew he was going to be one but not that one that's awesome


----------



## Illairen (Dec 18, 2015)

My new ranking;

1. Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. Return of the Jedi
4. Revenge of The Sith
5. The Force Awakens
6. The Phantom Menace
7. Attack of The Clones


While the performance of the actors in TFA was really good and while the visual effects of the movie were great, I didn`t like two things in particular:


*Spoiler*: __ 



1. That an untrained Rey becomes stronger than Kylo Ren in one day....it`s completely 
     unrealistic. Not even Anakin or Luke were that talented. 
2. That the end of the movie was just a rehash of a new hope. Come on, new "Death star"....that`s 
     not really original.


----------



## Detective (Dec 18, 2015)

tari101190 said:


> Phasma sounds fine to me.



Yeah but, Captain Plasma would be da bomb diggity.


----------



## tari101190 (Dec 18, 2015)

@Illairen: Not stronger. He was injured.

And I'm sure there's more to the force than just training. I'm sure some can be stronger in the force than others, even though others are better trained.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 18, 2015)

so is Rey really stronk in the Force ?


----------



## Bart (Dec 18, 2015)

*Undeniable proof supporting the 'Snoke is Plageius' theory (MAJOR SPOILERS)*


*Spoiler*: __ 



*Revenge of the Sith - Palpatine's Teachings*




*The Force Awakens - Snoke*
to show off Naruto's new ougi


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 18, 2015)

Rukia, its happening







The Wise will rise


----------



## Tempproxy (Dec 18, 2015)

This movie is fucking ridiculous JJ is an idiot and needs to brush up on his Star Wars lore and Finn was a complete waste of a character. Movie is a 6/10 for me what a wasted opportunity and I can't freaking stand Rey.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 18, 2015)

> This movie is fucking ridiculous JJ is an idiot and needs to brush up on his Star Wars lore and Finn was a complete waste of a character. Movie is a 6/10 for me


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 18, 2015)

Rey in TFA seems to be a trigger for some people lol


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 18, 2015)

THIS MOVIE IS FUCKING RIDICULOUS!

6/10 

 - IGN


----------



## tari101190 (Dec 18, 2015)

Question:

Did Leia or Han ever even meet Obi Wan? Are they even familiar with him at all? I don't remember.

I know she knew of him and asked him for help. But did she meet him?


----------



## Stunna (Dec 18, 2015)

Han met Obi-Wan. Leia was aware of him, but never met him in the movie.


----------



## tari101190 (Dec 18, 2015)

Okay thanks nevermimd.

I just realized something else anyway.


*Spoiler*: _spoiler don't read please if you haven't watched the film_ 



I guess people name children after revered figures even if they haven't met. And I guess Obi Wan did save her life as a baby.


----------



## Tempproxy (Dec 18, 2015)

Weiss said:


> Rey in TFA seems to be a trigger for some people lol



That's because she is a horrible character, was JJ the clown even thinking when he thought of this character. We have never seen an untrained access the force the way this shitty character did. Not to mention besting a trained Jedi/Dark side user multiple times.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 18, 2015)

Multiple times? No need to exaggerate.


----------



## kluang (Dec 18, 2015)

Just saw this. My god I have to avoid a lot of comments because a lot of trolling douchebag spoil everything. I learn that the hard way with MGS 5

It was AWESOME


----------



## Chaos Hokage (Dec 18, 2015)

I watch the movie last night. I thought it was okay. To me Rey seems like the type of character Leia could've been if she was send to Tatooine as a baby instead of Luke. Kylo Ren seem like a Darth Vader fanboy with temper issues. Finn was okay, he just need to improve on his fighting style and gain more confidence in himself.


----------



## Tempproxy (Dec 18, 2015)

Stunna said:


> Multiple times? No need to exaggerate.




*Spoiler*: __ 



She bested him when he tried to read her mind, she bested him when it came to Sabre combat and she bested him when it came to force TK.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 18, 2015)

Oh yeah, I was just thinking about the middle one.

She was definitely OP.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 18, 2015)

so the first truly strong female Force user in 6/7 films ?

thats not a bad thing


----------



## tari101190 (Dec 18, 2015)

He tried a jedi mind control thing on weak people who can't use the force.

Then he tried it on a force user and failed.

That's how I see it.

Doesn't make her OP.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 18, 2015)

No one's saying that it's bad that there's a strong female Force user.

It's that she has, like, zero character flaws, and is a competent Force user within minutes of finding out she's Force sensitive.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 18, 2015)

Weiss said:


> so the first truly strong female Force user in 6/7 films ?
> 
> thats not a bad thing



It is if she was only a jedi for a couple days and defeated someone with a lifetime experience.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 18, 2015)

tari101190 said:


> He tried a jedi mind control thing on weak people who can't use the force.
> 
> Then he tried it on a force user and failed.
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 



She was able to resist a Force user trained by both Luke and Snoke without any prior experience using the Force herself. That's not the only thing that made her OP, but it was one of them.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 18, 2015)

perhaps Kylo was just a weak shit 


could she have beaten RotS Anakin ?


----------



## tari101190 (Dec 18, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



She seems powerful, but I think she seemed grounded to me, I dunno. Maybe she is mary sue-ish.






> perhaps Kylo was just a weak shit


The first showcase of his powers in the film say otherwise.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 18, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Her and Kylo are technically cousins right?


----------



## Tempproxy (Dec 18, 2015)

tari101190 said:


> He tried a jedi mind control thing on weak people who can't use the force.
> 
> Then he tried it on a force user and failed.
> 
> ...



A force user? No she wasn't. Hell if we go by what the God of Star Wars has said then Anakin had the biggest potential ever and his son Luke wasn't even this adept at using the force at first. Things like using the Force for foresight isn't to far fetched since Anakin and Luke did it prior to receiving training(Although ones father is the Force and the other his grandfather is the force). Badass Rey just seemed overly forced, she didn't have to be invincible to drive home the concept of being a potential threat to the dark side (Think Luke in ANH).


----------



## Bluebeard (Dec 18, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Her and Kylo are technically cousins right?



Possibly.


----------



## tari101190 (Dec 18, 2015)

"Kylo is unfocused" is like his entire character.


*Spoiler*: __ 



He wants to full-fill his legacy as a skywalker, but doesn't want his family to hold him back, but he clearly regrets everything he does, and wants to embrace his emotions, but he can't handle it. He's very strange.


----------



## Tempproxy (Dec 18, 2015)

Weiss said:


> perhaps Kylo was just a weak shit
> 
> 
> could she have beaten RotS Anakin ?



Seemed pretty competent 
*Spoiler*: __ 



considering be stopped a freaking blaster bolt in mid air. 


One of the greatest scene in the movie and goes back to what Obi-Wan said about the force in the OT seeing as blaster bolts are simply energy Jedi's should be able to manipulate them as well.


----------



## Bluebeard (Dec 18, 2015)

tari101190 said:


> No they're not.
> 
> "Kylo is unfocused" is like his entire character.
> 
> ...



He's a fascinating villain honestly.


----------



## tari101190 (Dec 18, 2015)

I actually liked Kylo.


*Spoiler*: __ 




I think we're actually following his story.

I think he'll be redeemed by ep 9.


----------



## Tempproxy (Dec 18, 2015)

Bluebeard said:


> He's a fascinating villain honestly.



I find it funny how people are so in love with Kylo and yet hated a young Vader for acting in a similair fashion.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 18, 2015)

>Tari spoiling that he survives the movie


----------



## Gunners (Dec 18, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 




I didn't have a problem with Kylo losing. I think people are downplaying the role his emotions played in his performance. He had no problem stopping a blaster bolt but got caught by Chewbacca after killing his father. It was mentioned that his training was incomplete so I'm guessing that he didn't know how to channel his grief and regret.


----------



## tari101190 (Dec 18, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



He was injured and his emotions were out of control. He was a mess.






Tempproxy said:


> I find it funny how people are so in love with Kylo and yet hated a young Vader for acting in a similair fashion.


I don't like Kylo cos of how he acted.

I like his story and I like redemption stories.

Star Wars is famous for really exploring the heroes journey.

Kylo fits into that perfectly.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 18, 2015)

Man, fuck you guys...



I'll come back later today


----------



## Stunna (Dec 18, 2015)

Rey was:

- an ace pilot capable of flying the Falcon like a champ despite it being her first time doing so

- a skilled engineer who was able to utilize the Falcon's functions more competently than Han, once or twice, and was offered a position on the ship as a reward

- a skilled fighter with both her staff and with a lightsaber, who was capable of overpowering Kylo, a duelist who'd been trained by both Luke and Snoke (albeit in a physically and emotionally compromised state)

- was able to resist Kylo's mental attacks using the Force; again, despite Kylo's having years of training under Luke and Snoke, and it being her first time using her Force powers

- was able to use a Mind Trick moments after resisting Kylo's mental attack on her third try

- had no notable negative personality traits, and was lauded by literally every major character she interacted with

some of these are less egregious than others (like her being a competent engineer and pilot), but she still felt like a Mary Sue OC inserted into "A New Hope."


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 18, 2015)

> Rey was:
> 
> - an ace pilot capable of flying the Falcon like a champ despite it being her first time doing so
> 
> ...


so


best girl


----------



## Stunna (Dec 18, 2015)

Gesy


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 18, 2015)

Stunna said:


> Rey was:
> 
> - an ace pilot capable of flying the Falcon like a champ despite it being her first time doing so
> 
> ...


you're just mentioning her being a good engineer to pad out the list

she used to take apart ships and get useful parts out of them for a living, obviously she would be good at figuring out how an old ship worked 

the overpowering kylo thing is also another padding-out-the-list entry considering that kylo was shot in the gut by a supercharged blaster and had already won a fight before that and been injured again in that fight to boot

if you're asking why she was a skilled fighter when she seemed to be living alone and having to fend for herself on a desert planet, where learning to fight would obviously be a solid move, then you're clutching at straws again

about the only negative personality trait another sw protag, luke, had, was rashness, and that didn't show up till empire 

the only legit questionable things are her superlative piloting skill and her unusually high force aptitude in terms of applied mind tricks (could say the force helped out her piloting, since that runs in the family )

so all in all


----------



## Stunna (Dec 18, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> you're just mentioning her being a good engineer to pad out the list
> 
> she used to take apart ships and get useful parts out of them for a living, obviously she would be good at figuring out how an old ship worked


did I not mention how it was one of the less notable ones on the list? Her being a competent engineer, as I said, was understandable, but part of a greater troublesome whole. 



> the overpowering kylo thing is also another padding-out-the-list entry considering that kylo was shot in the gut by a supercharged blaster and had already won a fight before that and been injured again in that fight to boot


again, no

relatively understandable circumstances that nonetheless contribute to a troublesome whole



> if you're asking why she was a skilled fighter when she seemed to be living alone and having to fend for herself on a desert planet, where learning to fight would obviously be a solid move, then you're clutching at straws again


I didn't ask this, so no.



> about the only negative personality trait another sw protag, luke, had, was rashness, and that didn't show up till empire


firstly, a precedent of bland protagonists doesn't excuse subsequent examples

secondly, Luke was brash and a whiner; both of these things were present from his first appearance in ANH 

so all in all, I stand by Rey being a poorly handled character


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 18, 2015)

Stunna said:


> did I not mention how it was one of the less notable ones on the list? Her being a competent engineer, as I said, was understandable, but part of a greater troublesome whole.
> 
> 
> again, no
> ...



mentioning that they're not notable but still including them and claiming they form a "troublesome whole" is just a way to disingenuously have your cake and eat it


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 18, 2015)

that said yeah i'll agree she's bland

she's not a mary sue tho


----------



## Stunna (Dec 18, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> mentioning that they're not notable but still including them and claiming they form a "troublesome whole" is just a way to disingenuously have your cake and eat it


good thing I said "less notable" and not "not notable"

reading comprehension OP, fam


----------



## Mider T (Dec 18, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> Man, fuck you guys...
> 
> 
> 
> I'll come back later today



Why were you in this thread when you planned to see it today?. You couldn't wait?


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 18, 2015)

Stunna said:


> good thing I said "less notable" and not "not notable"
> 
> reading comprehension OP, fam



slippery rhetoric OP


----------



## Mider T (Dec 18, 2015)

I feel like the term Mary Sue is thrown around more than sorority panties these days.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 18, 2015)

I personally try not to use it that often

only characters I think I've labeled as such lately that come to mind have been Clara Oswald from Doctor Who and Rey


----------



## Bubyrd Ratcatcher (Dec 18, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



I think Rey was a legit better fighter of Kylo. Because of life experience.

Kylo had some control over the force when his emotions were in check, and he was  using a flawed and unsophisticated saber, that doesnt help against Luke's lightsaber. 

And he was injured, for me it is ok that Rey bested him in the final fight. 
I call bullshit when in the other scrap they had inside the facility, she said like "oh! The Force!" and went like into a Bastila's Battle Meditation in like 5 secs. That was absurd.

I still wonder how Luke managed to be such a terrible teacher, that he was forced to go into exile.
And how Han and Leila managed to be such terrible parents, to quit on their son.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 18, 2015)

who said there was no character development


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 18, 2015)

Stunna said:


> who said there was no character development



some people. not here though. maybe.


----------



## Gabe (Dec 18, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



I liked rylo he was just easily angered and that's usually a downfall in battle if you lose your cool. But  I think they could have done his deflate to Rey better it was a whooping at the end. She did notice he was injured at first when the blood fell when he first met Finn and her after killing Han. she could be  be a Skywalker her and kylo could be cousins. I think maybe that is why she received vision when she first touched the light saber after she found it in the chest. Also Lea hugged her for a bit.
I think they should have also made Finn force sensitive even if he was not a good fighter yet there should be nothing wrong with more then one Jedi potential in the cast. Especially if they face more knights of ren in the sequels


----------



## Gunners (Dec 18, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 




I don't mean to be a dick but people (@Stunna) need to understand that people might go with what is cliche because viewers don't pick up on things that aren't blatantly obvious. You're making the claim that Rey was without flaws. However, the character was not without her flaws; they were just less common than the flaws typically given to protagonists.

It's kind of clear that the character was in denial with regards to her _belief_ that her parents would return home. Initially it was something that stood in the way of her aspirations until she was honest with herself. I would also say that the character was somewhat prideful in the sense that she had a hard time humbly accepting the help Fin; granted, that changed quickly. 

You can also argue that the character gave into her fear by initially refusing the lightsaber.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 18, 2015)

that was obviously a part of her character, yes, but I'd argue that it wasn't handled too well

nor was it enough of a flaw (again, at least in execution) to counterbalance her other traits that have labeled her as a bland character, in my book

so that changes next to nothing


----------



## Jake CENA (Dec 18, 2015)

Koba was an asspull


----------



## Suigetsu (Dec 18, 2015)

Rey was a mary sue.
Kylo was a whinny angsty bitch.
Boyega was a more useful jar jar bings.

This movie did not know what tone was. 
Literally:
>I must be able to enjoy inauthentic trash produced for the sole purpose of making money 

I feel like they made fun of me by making a coomplete copy of a new hope.

Also Ben was the name of Luke's son in EU but now it's Han's? What the fuck abrahams? You and disney are cucks.
It had good acting but the writting was like capeshit disney movies.

This aint better than revenge of the sith, with all the silly dialogue and stuff.


----------



## tari101190 (Dec 18, 2015)




----------



## Suigetsu (Dec 18, 2015)

tbh I really dont care anymore. Altought Palpatine was pretty cool no?


----------



## tari101190 (Dec 18, 2015)




----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 18, 2015)

i guess some star wars fans just want balance. not stray far from the original formula and not too much of a carbon copy.


----------



## tari101190 (Dec 18, 2015)

[YOUTUBE]nTmP0iBQUkA[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Gunners (Dec 18, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 





Stunna said:


> that was obviously a part of her character, yes, but I'd argue that it wasn't handled too well
> 
> nor was it enough of a flaw (again, at least in execution) to counterbalance her other traits that have labeled her as a bland character, in my book
> 
> so that changes next to nothing



I thought it was a part of her character that was handled appropriately. The film clearly marks the start of her journey as a hero, so it is fitting and appropriate for her flaw to act as a barrier to the realisation of her purpose. 

Within the context of being a Jedi, her flaws also have greater relevance. Her denial is ultimately a result of her attachment to her parents. Through Darth Vader, we know what that attachment can lead to and why the Jedi approached it with caution. Funnily enough, through Ben, we saw the problematic side to becoming detached. Ultimately it can be boiled down to finding the right balance: appreciation for attachments whilst not letting them cloud one's judgements. In my eyes, Rey acceptance that her parents would not return showed that balance and as a result I see it as a meaningful step taken. 

I don't agree with the notion that her flaws need to outweigh her positive traits. When you look at people, you don't observe their flaws balancing out their positive traits. The traits you witness depend on the situation a person is in so it is highly unlikely that you will get an even split or accurate representation when the situations are consistent with one another. 

As things stand, we witnessed her denial and attachment to home because that related to the situation of her leaving home and starting a new life. I'm guessing we will see more when she has to deal with different obstacles.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 18, 2015)

Nah, her flaws don't need to outweigh her positive traits; I just felt like her positive traits so drastically outweighed her flaws.

It's possible I haven't given enough credit to her flaws that _are_ there; maybe subsequent viewings will have me feeling differently.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 18, 2015)

bloodplzkthxlol said:


> i guess some star wars fans just want balance. not stray far from the original formula and not too much of a carbon copy.



Well. this was advertised as a sequel, not a soft reboot. A good sequel should give the feeling of advancement instead of stagnation.


----------



## Tempproxy (Dec 18, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> Well. this was advertised as a sequel, not a soft reboot. A good sequel should give the feeling of advancement instead of stagnation.



JJ was clearly to shook after the prequels and played it safe, he shouldn't have taken the job to be honest if he couldn't advance without a copy and paste. The hype behind this film has blinded a lot of people to many wrongs with this movie.


----------



## Saishin (Dec 18, 2015)

Watched today


*Spoiler*: __ 



A plot well structured although it's a plot that reminds A New Hope,I would have expected someting a little original but I guess the authors wrote the story in that way intentionally as homage to the original saga.

Love the shootings that are more dynamics and don't have that  'symphonic tone' like the OT and PT.

Excellent special effects,the Millenium Falcon chase scene was great!

I had a good impression of the new characters,especially Finn and Rey,they form a great duo,my favorite.Also Poe Dameron was an ok character and Kylo Ren was the most interesting,is he half mechanic? he was keeping to beat up is left side body after been shot 

See again Ford,Fisher and Hamilton was emotional 

Han Solo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  I wont' say anything 

I have an idea about Rey's parents,I'm sure her dad is Luke  

And btw why the imperialists keep to build an ultimate armed space station,haven't they learned anything from the destruction of the previous two Death Stars? 




I give this movie 8.5/10 I've enjoyed it very much,the authors did a good job,the fans will not be dissapointed.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 18, 2015)

Tempproxy said:


> JJ was clearly to shook after the prequels and played it safe, he shouldn't have taken the job to be honest if he couldn't advance without a copy and paste. The hype behind this film has blinded a lot of people to many wrongs with this movie.



He initially turned down doing the film because he felt it puts too much pressure on him...poor guy.


----------



## Tempproxy (Dec 18, 2015)

Anyone care to list all the canon force abilities we have seen?


----------



## Tempproxy (Dec 18, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> He initially turned down doing the film because he felt it puts too much pressure on him...poor guy.



It clearly shows as he played it safe all the way.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 18, 2015)

gesy have u even watched the movie


----------



## tari101190 (Dec 18, 2015)

He done a great job setting things up.

Now a great director like Rian Johnson can take over and give us the new Empire Strikes back.

With his dark noir sensibilities.


----------



## Saishin (Dec 18, 2015)

When Han Solo and Chewie appeared the people in the cinema clapped,the feelz


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 18, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> Well. this was advertised as a sequel, not a soft reboot. A good sequel should give the feeling of advancement instead of stagnation.



looking at the complaints it sounds like people view it as such considering how the plot went.

so! ideas for the villains in the next movies

*Spoiler*: __ 



7: kylo ren
8: the knights of ren
9: snoke himself


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 18, 2015)

Saishin said:


> When Han Solo and Chewie appeared the people in the cinema clapped,the feelz



when i saw the falcon the first time i had a mouthful of pineapple monster and i did a legit and totally involuntary spit-take because i was tryna laugh

the people around me weren't pleased


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 18, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> gesy have u even watched the movie



going to watch it now 

I trust Stunna though


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 18, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> when i saw the falcon the first time i had a mouthful of pineapple monster and i did a legit and totally involuntary spit-take because i was tryna laugh
> 
> the people around me weren't pleased



*Spoiler*: __ 





the ultimate convenience~ though i had trouble keeping up with how it got there


----------



## Saishin (Dec 18, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> when i saw the falcon the first time i had a mouthful of pineapple monster and i did a legit and totally involuntary spit-take because i was tryna laugh
> 
> the people around me weren't pleased


Why laugh at the Falcon? you did that because you were amazed of the Falcon first appearance? 


*Spoiler*: __ 



You know what,in 30 years the new republic didn't manage to build a full army to fight eventual threats? in the movie their forces looks poorly equipped as when they fought the empire but maybe in the next episode we may see their full power,I hope we have the chance to see again Coruscant,it should be again the sit of the republic after the defeat of the empire.

I found strange that the republic forces still refere themselves as the 'resistance',I mean they won the war and re-established the previous order and defeat the empire so I would have expected a name like republic army or republic forces but again we'll see in the next episodes.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 18, 2015)

> Why laugh at the Falcon? you did that because you were amazed of the Falcon first appearance?



no, like, the way it showed up in the movie


*Spoiler*: __ 



like, they just panned across a bunch of spaceships that were lying around in that dude's junkyard, and THERE IT WAS

the incongruity of it being the legendary millenium falcon and that totally nonchalant reveal was funny


----------



## Saishin (Dec 18, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> no, like, the way it showed up in the movie
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 



Oh I see,yeah you're right  poor Han he was robbed but fortunately Rey returned the Falcon to him 

Maybe it's time for a new Falcon


----------



## Gabe (Dec 18, 2015)

For me this was the third best Star Wars movie only behind the empire strikes back and a new hope


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 18, 2015)

It does seem that Daniel Craig had a cameo in the movie. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



Many sites have reported the same story about him being in fact the Stormtrooper that Rey used her initial Force powers on. It payed off in a very funny manner, the way he just drop his weapon as Rey's last-minute order. 

The movie was full of good humor. Like Finn's "we'll use the Force" and Han's answer of "That''s not how the Force works!" 

Or Chewbaca of all characters being cold in the Starkiller Base much to Han's bewilderment.






Saishin said:


> When Han Solo and Chewie appeared the people in the cinema clapped,the feelz



Same here. The feedback was as big as when the Millenium Falcon was shown in my audience.


----------



## Gabe (Dec 18, 2015)

Saishin said:


> When Han Solo and Chewie appeared the people in the cinema clapped,the feelz



Same last night at the theater I went o see it. But surprisingly when
*Spoiler*: __ 



luke showed up at the end there was silence


----------



## Vivo Diez (Dec 18, 2015)

What's the consensus on Fin's character?


----------



## Stunna (Dec 18, 2015)

His personality didn't match his backstory, but he was a fun and likable character.


----------



## Gunners (Dec 18, 2015)

I liked the friendship that developed. Sometimes, it is nice looking at a group of characters who don't behave like dicks to one another.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 18, 2015)

Yeah, the new protags have good chemistry with one another. Would have loved to see more Poe and Finn interactions, and any Poe and Rey interaction at all. Hopefully they'll meet and form some kind of relationship next movie.

No love triangle, though.


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 18, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



the moment with han alone in the cockpit. spoke volumes


----------



## tari101190 (Dec 18, 2015)

Why have people suddenly forgotten that the force allows people to do impossibly remarkable things even when entirely unaware of what the force is? And even if they know what the force is, they are still able to tap into it for it to guide their actions.

This isn't a new ability and it's not even surprising.


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 18, 2015)

Stunna said:


> Yeah, the new protags have good chemistry with one another. Would have loved to see more Poe and Finn interactions, and any Poe and Rey interaction at all. Hopefully they'll meet and form some kind of relationship next movie.
> 
> No love triangle, though.



poe and finns bromance was beautiful. to the point, simple and sweet. if it was mgs or something they'd probably hammer in the fact for too long and tell you how much they're friends etc. etc. so on and so forth.


i wonder what rey would think of poe since they didn't meet?


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 18, 2015)

> *BOX OFFICE: STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS On Track For Massive $275M Weekend*
> 
> After breaking records with an amazing $57 million yesterday evening, Star Wars: The Force Awakens is currently on track to earn as much as $130 - 145 million today. That means it will become the first movie to earn upwards of $100 million in a single day, and distribution executives are reportedly in "complete awe" because of how well it's performing on an hour by hour basis. Oh, and did you think Jurassic World's opening weekend record of $208.8 million was impressive?
> 
> Well, the Force wasn't anywhere near as stong with that as it is Star Wars: The Force Awakens because current projections point to an overall weekend haul of between $250 - 275 million. It may even go higher, but like Disney (who are simply projecting a $200 million opening), it's best to keep expectations in check for the time being. Is it going to top Avatar? That's the question everyone wants to know right now, but we're just going to have to wait and see. What do you guys think?





*Spoiler*: _Another funny part of the movie_ 



Was when Chewie was being patched back by that Resistance nurse at the HQ and the nurse said something like he was very brave and Chewbaca just nodded his head to the left and right as if he was saying  "yeah you do what you can." XD

Finn's "he's tried to kill already 6 times!" was hilarious as well.


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 18, 2015)

so! movie of the year? eeeeeh probably not. i enjoyed the martian a little bit more *is shot*


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 18, 2015)

star wars is so good


----------



## Mider T (Dec 18, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> no, like, the way it showed up in the movie
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



It reminded me of this.

[YOUTUBE]cMAewj2RamA[/YOUTUBE]



Gabe said:


> For me this was the third best Star Wars movie only behind the empire strikes back and a new hope


Objectively though it was the 2nd best behind The Phantom Menace.


----------



## Gabe (Dec 18, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



i also liked the scenes where kylo is destroying the room after Rey escaped and the two trooper walk away. It was funny. It like oh no he is having a tantrum again let's just walk away before we get killed.


----------



## Mider T (Dec 18, 2015)

Gabe said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> i also liked the scenes where kylo is destroying the room after Rey escaped and the two trooper walk away. It was funny. It like oh no he is having a tantrum again let's just walk away before we get killed.


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 18, 2015)

Gabe said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> i also liked the scenes where kylo is destroying the room after Rey escaped and the two trooper walk away. It was funny. It like oh no he is having a tantrum again let's just walk away before we get killed.




*Spoiler*: __ 



yeah lol the guys sitting behind me said out loud "NNNNOPE!"




so what does everyone who's seen the movie think of kylo's lightsaber now that we've seen it in action?


----------



## James Bond (Dec 18, 2015)

Just back from seeing it and I was blown away (thankfully managed to avoid all spoilers). The movie felt new but was able to capture the old Star Wars movie magic and of course BB8 was the MVP... love that little guy.


----------



## Matta Clatta (Dec 18, 2015)

I liked it 
I'm sure people will pick this apart in a few years like TPM since it does have some flaws here and there

*Spoiler*: __ 



I'm kinda worried about Rey as a character since she is so generic. Finn wasn't so bad its just the marketing made him out to be a lot more serious than he actually is.
Kylo will have to pull a miracle off in ep 8 to restore his hype though 
1st half he is badass as hell and intimidating but as soon as he willingly takes off his mask yeah all that goes down the drain and he's basically a more well written version of anakin


----------



## KazeYama (Dec 18, 2015)

Matta Clatta said:


> I liked it
> I'm sure people will pick this apart in a few years like TPM since it does have some flaws here and there
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Well they never explain how long Kylo was actually training for. People act like he was supposed to be as strong as Vader or Palpatine immediately. Kylo could have started training as a jedi the same age as Luke or even if he was trained since he was a child he has only been training in the darkside for a short amount of time given what Snoke says in the film. Plus the fact that he seemingly purged himself of the light by killing Han Solo he should be a much bigger and focused badass when he comes back. Of course by the same token Rey should be trained by Luke during that same time period.

Also I saw the movie again today and picked up some stuff I didn't get on the first viewing. First of all I don't think Kylo ever trained under Luke directly. Leia specifically says he should have trained with Luke and that Kylo was corrupted by Snoke. I think that Luke's first apprentice as a master was actually Snoke or Snoke infiltrated the Jedi and that Snoke then took Kylo under his wing and formed the knights of Ren and destroyed the jedi academy. Kylo is probably like mid 20's to 30 at best and I'm assuming Luke started the academy within a few years post ROTJ. There is enough time for Kylo to be a second generation student and Luke was off doing something else during that time period. Also Snoke's injuries may have been as a result of a battle with Luke, but Luke was unable to kill him for some reason and became a recluse afterwards similar to Obi-wan. I think Leia makes it pretty clear that had Luke been in direct control of his training he would have been able to keep him under control. 

Also for people questioning or disappointed by Finn there is one small hint he may still have force potential. As the starkiller wiped out the planets you see Finn's reaction and there is like a faint murmur and screams in the background as if he can somehow hear it or feel what is happening. Plus he was like a top recruit and has been shown to have amazing empathy for someone raised from birth as a loyal killer and soldier which could be a result of latent force powers. So I think the swerve of Rey being the jedi was actually a reverse swerve and that both will end up jedi overall.


----------



## Gabe (Dec 18, 2015)

I like his sword its parralles him well not refined and dangerous


----------



## GRIMMM (Dec 18, 2015)

Saw it on release night and got a really cool Star Wars plastic cup and straw thing. Chose the dark side one of course.

As for the movie... loved it. Every moment was good, and I loved how it was new but managed to capture the aspects of the original 3 movies. New characters were all great, especially Kylo who was very intimidating and insane at times.


*Spoiler*: __ 



One of my favourite parts was when Kylo got shot at by Poe and he stopped the laser mid air with the force. While Poe was brought over he passed it and it was flickering and making noise, it looked great. Then when Kylo exited the scene the laser hit the beacon.

I also loved the scene with the Millennium Falcon in the desert, absolutely amazing. 



I do feel that the last 20 minutes or so were very rushed to be honest. That is my only criticism.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Han Solo... NNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!





Matta Clatta said:


> I liked it
> I'm sure people will pick this apart in a few years like TPM since it does have some flaws here and there
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Rey was good, quite a funny character and obviously set up to get stronger. Finn was also really good, very funny and down to earth, considering he is a stormtrooper. Glad he fought Kylo with the lightsaber first. I think Kylo will become turbo-evil in the second movie, he will "finish his training" and overpower Rey and Finn no doubt. Leaving them wounded and having to recuperate for the final movie. He will go to the dark side fully, but I feel a redemption story towards the end.

I am convinced Rey is Luke's daughter.


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 18, 2015)

im thinking kylo will be more of a zuko like char.

7: villain
8: anti hero
9: hero


*Spoiler*: __ 



in episode 8 he shows he doesnt like the knights of ren which should be the main baddies for that one, and leaving snoke for 9


----------



## Stunna (Dec 18, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



I don't know if I want Kylo to be redeemed after what he did to Han.

At least, I don't know if I want him to join the good guys like Zuko. It's easier for me to picture him making a redemptive sacrifice like Vader did.


----------



## Megaharrison (Dec 18, 2015)

My thoughts:

This was just a remake of episode four, I don't even consider it it's own movie. JJ remade ET as super 8 and wrath of khan as Into darkness. This movie is no different

-having another Death Star was unforgivable, having a hole that you shoot into to blow it all up again was even more unforgivable 

-JJs insistence to stay away from prequel complaints harmed the movie. People whine about confusing political stuff in the prequels, but this was the only Star Wars movies that left me confused. Whets the relationship between the first order and resistances? What's the resistance? Why isn't the republic fighting the first order? Where is the republic? What were those planets the Death Star 3 blew up?

-people fighting sith lords and doing Jedi mind tricks without training. What was the point of the Jedi order even. Rey was bad enough but fucking Finn wounded him.

-just x-wings and tie fighters in the lamest space battle of the series. At least the prequels had interesting weapons each movie, this was just boring. It's like JJ put in the most basic "hey this is the only thing normies care about!" effort.

-everything was so uninspired from JJs inability to make his own movie. I expected a new vader and emperor but Christ he took carbon copying to a new level. Rey was not-Luke, orange alien was not-yoda, nux was not-Tarkin, Poe was not-Leia, BB was not-R2 , Finn was a more bumbling and self righteous Han, Phasma was a not-Boba Fett. Han had a violent confrontation with not-Greedo. Even the planets were copied. from not-Tattoine with its own not-Jawas to not-Yavin, the not-mos eisley Catina scene complete with its own silly alien band was so ridiculously shameless I dunno how it made the final cut

-people seeing each other at the precisely right moment on vessels the size of planets. The force guiding them and etc only works for so long

The main problem though is ultimately just this being episode 4 with some variable changes and an uncharismatic and unattractive sat. Everything was by the books, bland, and uninteresting. Palpatine at his most awkward was far better than fucking snoke, and don't even get me started on Ron weasley vs Tarkin. The lack of world building could have been compensated with an original story and better leads. 

Heir to the empire did a much better and interesting sequel to Jedi 20 years ago. This was a big disappointment like i expected, granted it managed better than I thought. 5 > 4 > 6 > 3 > 7 > 1 > 2. It's a shame the old RU was thrown out for uninspired banal remakes. "It's a fun movie turn your brain off XD" does not excuse the total lack of creativity.


----------



## Rindaman (Dec 18, 2015)

I still think Finn being force sensitive is on the table , but I think they're saving  it for the sequel like Leia once upon a time.  A few instances where he just seemed to adapt way too quickly.  Plus the way Kylo starred him down in the beginning.


----------



## Gabe (Dec 18, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



I think the next movie will focus on ren as the main character and Rey one being trained by like and the other by snoke. Also he is going to be redeemed by anakin I think he will see him as a force ghost maybe at the end of episode 9 maybe he will die taking out snoke. I do think luke will die as well probably in the last one as well maybe by rens hand but possible snoke.


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 18, 2015)

Megaharrison said:


> My thoughts:
> 
> This was just a remake of episode four, I don't even consider it it's own movie. JJ remade ET as super 8 and wrath of khan as Into darkness. This movie is no different
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



but kylo wasnt a sith lord.

agreed with xwings/tie's being the absolute ONLY ships in the movie. i miss the arc 170's =c


----------



## Bluebeard (Dec 18, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



I honestly don't want Kylo to be redeemed.




And I pray to God that the First Order is not dumb enough to just decide that they want to rebuild Starkiller Base but bigger. I'll blow my brains out if that happens.


----------



## Kyuuzen (Dec 18, 2015)

Bluebeard said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> I honestly don't want Kylo to be redeemed.




*Spoiler*: __ 



Agreed.  Vader was redeemed, I want this villain to become really, really bad.  Like you HAVE to put him down, kind of bad.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 18, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



And have Luke be the one to do it.


----------



## Shark Skin (Dec 18, 2015)

Bluebeard said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Same. I don't get why so many people seem to want to see him be redeemed. Fuck that shit




----------------------------------------------------


Got back from seeing it. I liked it. Wasn't blown away or anything.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 18, 2015)

Just got back from watching it, emotions are a bit too hot to give a a full length review. but I will say:

Finn was disappointing
Rey was kinda boring
Ren wasn't as badass as expected
Not enough Poe (MVP of the newly introduced characters)
Han....Han...


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 18, 2015)

idk about putting him down is in such a good taste for this series.


----------



## Matta Clatta (Dec 18, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



I have to say though Jedi are really starting to be the root of all problems in the galaxy
They can go to the dark side and kill women and children no problem
or they can really depressed and  abandon the galaxy all together when it really needs them.





*Spoiler*: __ 



Imagine how many people wouldn't have died in this movie if Luke just didn't pull a Yoda 




Great movie though
I agree the politics needs to be hashed out a bit more but that's why we have the novels and comics don't put that boring stuff in the movies.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Apparently the New Republic is still around not doing anything about the first order to the point that the resistance had to secede from them to fight them. So I guess you can just call this the republic vs empire v2


----------



## Fang (Dec 18, 2015)

So I just got back from seeing the movie with some family and friends:


*Spoiler*: __ 



It was not as bad as I feared but the second half of the movie is pretty much the worst part of it. The dialogue and confrontation scene between Han and Ben/Kylo is incredibly cringe-inducing, there is no amount of build up, drama, and ambiance that can dispel the way Snoke's name power-fists the drama into submission. In fact every time Han, Leia, Hux, Kylo/Ben, or anyone else mentions his name, it just feels dumb.

I'll probably get shit for this but almost all of the dialogue in the movie from the First Order's attack on Mez's planet to the end of the movie was pretty much Prequel Trilogy's tier bad. I'm still also trying to justify what possible reason Kylo wouldn't use the Force to subdue or put down Finn besides maybe intentionally toying and playing with him to draw out the fight to savor it more. 

Overall I guess I'd place it on the same standing as Revenge of the Sith. The action was great, the CGI was fine, Han's trademark sarcasm and flippant personality are there and I liked Poe even if he came off a bit generic. But Rey seemed far too much like an action girl who knew how to do everything when it called for it which felt far too over the top given her relative inexperience but I can suspend my disbelief from seeing it as totally negative. 

Finn was easily the worst.

Probably a 6.5 out of 10 rating. It was fun but mindless and lacked a soul.

Oh yeah, Hux was awful and Phasma did all of nothing for all the build up both characters were getting before the movie. I guess I can go more in depth later about what I didn't like but Stunna more or less nailed it: this movie didn't feel like a continuation of the Original Trilogy so much as it was rehashed blending of A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back. 

I don't know, I was just expecting more from the story and transition with the change of the generation.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Also the whole symbolism with Han's death and the confrontation with Kylo was really telegraphed in the most obvious ways. Especially the symbolism, the background is this halo of light and bluish hue while on Han's face and when panning back to Kylo its shadowed on him and red is on his face.

That just bothered me.




Still overall a lot better then Episode I or Episode II especially but more or less, nowhere close to the Original Trilogy and on par roughly with different flaws and issues with RoTS.

My two cents.


----------



## KazeYama (Dec 18, 2015)

Megaharrison said:


> My thoughts:
> 
> 
> -having another Death Star was unforgivable, having a hole that you shoot into to blow it all up again was even more unforgivable
> ...



Unlearn what you have learned. Sounds like you went into the movie not paying attention and were soured from the get go because you are bitter to the EU. Everyone who brings up heir to the empire forgets that aside from thrawn and mara it also contained completely stupid ideas like Luuke and Jorus that would never have actually translated to film effectively without dumpstering the entire franchise.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 18, 2015)

bloodplzkthxlol said:


> idk about putting him down is in such a good taste for this series.



It had to be done, it just could have been done a little better, but oh well.


----------



## Shark Skin (Dec 18, 2015)

Matta Clatta said:


> Great movie though
> I agree the politics needs to be hashed out a bit more but that's why we have the novels and comics don't put that boring stuff in the movies.
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Pretty much what happens. Don't know if I would say that they secede, since it seems the Republic and Resistance are on good terms, but they are created in the case that a threat does emerge. If I'm not mistaken Mon Motha has the Republic go through a fairly rapid demilitarization.

There's also this. I think the new chancellor is seen on Hoisnian when its destroyed. This page from the Visual Dictionary explains his position on the FO


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 18, 2015)

wait did captain phasma

*Spoiler*: __ 



die since she was on the planet which blew up?


----------



## KazeYama (Dec 18, 2015)

bloodplzkthxlol said:


> wait did captain phasma
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



No last we know she was in a trash compactor or something. There was a large period of time between when she was captured and when the planet blew up that she could have evacuated and I'm fairly sure she is confirmed to be coming back. Basically everyone on the imperial side is still alive at the end of the movie and the weapon accomplished its goal of wiping out the republic senate/fleet so the First Order actually did pretty well overall. The entire point of starkiller was to get a preemptive strike on the republic because they wouldn't be able to win a war otherwise but now the resistance and First Order seem to be on even playing field.


----------



## Shark Skin (Dec 18, 2015)

^To add to that

*Spoiler*: __ 



Kathleen Kennedy also confirmed that Christie would be back for Ep. 8, so she definitely didn't die.


----------



## Bluebeard (Dec 19, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



I wonder if Hux will return too.

Also with Starkiller Base destroyed, the First Order should be pretty depleted and low in numbers. So that leaves them in a interesting position for the sequel.


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 19, 2015)

"hey you guys seen that one James bond movie called die another day? the neat thing about this scene is that it feels real. the guys get tired and bloodied and really seems like they're fighting. and not just endlessly hitting each other with glow sticks inside of a video game." - plinkett.

and guess what the final battle felt like here? exactly. i remember going "ooh! ouch! yikes" during this fight.


----------



## Bishamon (Dec 19, 2015)

Wellllllll that was exciting, I will have to see it it again to think all over well but it is easily better than the prequels I'll say that much (Ep3 is easily one of the worst movies I've ever seen and I'm not rewatching ep 1 or 2 to refresh the memory so that I can safely put them in that tier), and also better than Return of the Jedi.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Also, the Han Solo death scene and specifically the way he dies tells me one of two things are happening here: 1)He is still alive, and survived in a similar fashion to how Luke did in ESB, but how exactly did he get out of the planet with it blowing up, I'm not sure, or 2) His death was made to parallel Obi Wan's death in Ep4, disposing of a well loved character who was important to the main guys as a way to encouraging them to grow stronger. But, this isn't so likely because Obi Wan was in tune with the force and could continue giving Luke guidance through it, Han can't do that so either there's no way this is the last thing we're seeing of him, or they just killed off a beloved character in a fairly un-flashy, not so honorable way which takes a lot of balls and I will applaud them for it.

But still, Han Solo needs to be alive. Because he's Han Solo.


----------



## The Runner (Dec 19, 2015)

The best thing about this movie was definitely the characters, and their interaction as a whole. I liked whenever Poe and Finn interacted, whenever Hux and Kylo(Ben) tried to one-up each other, how great Finn and Ray felt after evading the FO in the millenium falcon, the clear sense of history and family both Han and Leia have when they talk to each other. The only character I had no actual enjoyment with was Snoke. That guy just wasn't interesting.


----------



## Fang (Dec 19, 2015)

I found Not-Plagueis 2.0 more interesting then Hux the Nazi Posterboy.


----------



## Bishamon (Dec 19, 2015)

bloodplzkthxlol said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> i dont want a marvel death fake out in my star wars



Rule #1 of all cinema and Tv: Until you see a corpse, their fate is uncertain


*Spoiler*: __ 



See: Gleen Rhee


----------



## Bishamon (Dec 19, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



After finding out that Harrison Ford signed a contract for 3 Star Wars (which does not include the Han Solo anthology) I'm more convinced than ever that he's alive.

He can't possibly be using the force to communicate back and I highly doubt he'd show up in two movies only through flashbacks of stuff we've never seen before do so there's no other explanation for him having more Star Wars movies left on the queue. Unless it's something like him showing up on Ren's mind or something as a haunt from the past which I guess is also possible, but two movies of that? I dunno about that

Alrighty then safe to say I'm ready for Ep 8


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 19, 2015)

im more excited to know who the knights of ren are.


----------



## BigPoppaPump (Dec 19, 2015)

Just watched it, it was pretty awesome like everyone said.

My only gripe is that I was expecting Finn to be the main character, but looks like he's gonna be the pretty white girl's side kick, his character was probably the shittest of all the protag and he was just there for first order knowledge and getting his ass whooped, not to mention Boyega's accent was quite bad. Damn all faces of big franchises seem to be pretty young white girls lately, apart from comic films. Other than that the dialogue was a bit corny at times but what do you expect from a Disney film? Also way too mwny callbacks to the previous movies and when Kylo Ren took his mask off he lost everything that made him intimidating, like who tf is scared of some young Snape look a like? At least give him a scar.

Yeah but those are the only complaints I have there's way more I loved about the film but I'll probably just be recycling what other have said, I give it an 8.5/10.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Dec 19, 2015)

People are defending this film


I'd question the credibility of anyone who rates this film higher than 6/10


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 19, 2015)

BigPoppaPump said:


> Just watched it, it was pretty awesome like everyone said.
> 
> My only gripe is that I was expecting Finn to be the main character, but looks like he's gonna be the pretty white girl's side kick, his character was probably the shittest of all the protag and he was just there for first order knowledge and getting his ass whooped, not to mention Boyega's accent was quite bad. Damn all faces of big franchises seem to be pretty young white girls lately, apart from comic films. Other than that the dialogue was a bit corny at times but what do you expect from a Disney film? Also way too mwny callbacks to the previous movies and when Kylo Ren took his mask off he lost everything that made him intimidating, like who tf is scared of some young Snape look a like? At least give him a scar.
> 
> Yeah but those are the only complaints I have there's way more I loved about the film but I'll probably just be recycling what other have said, I give it an 8.5/10.



i believe that was the point. kylo wasn't a full fledged sith lord. his unscratched face shows how easy he's had it as well as the frightened side which remember is always the first step of the dark side.

also he gets a scar at the end of the duel.


----------



## Matta Clatta (Dec 19, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Kylo loses some of his immense dark side power when he takes off his mask 
The mask is what made him intimidating 
He amps himself up by talking to Vader's mask but when he takes his own off he let in the light somehow.
If he had put his mask back on after killing Han Rey and Finn would probably be dead


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 19, 2015)

bloodplzkthxlol said:


>



BB-8 was awesome

3rd favorite character



Grimmjowsensei said:


> People are defending this film
> 
> 
> I'd question the credibility of anyone who rates this film higher than 6/10



7.0-7.5 sounds fair


----------



## tari101190 (Dec 19, 2015)

Oh god, she is a mary sue:



> She's exotically beautiful, often having an unusual hair or eye color, *(She's a lone Brit among Yanks)*and has a similarly cool and exotic name *(Rey is her only name)*. She's exceptionally talented in an implausibly wide variety of areas, and may possess skills that are rare or nonexistent in the canon setting *(Can fix the Falcon, when Han cannot)*. She also lacks any realistic, or at least story-relevant, character flaws — either that or her "flaws" are obviously meant to be endearing.
> 
> She has an unusual and dramatic Back Story *(Stranded mysterious orphan)*. The canon protagonists are all overwhelmed with admiration for her beauty, wit, courage and other virtues, and are quick to adopt her as one of their True Companions, even characters who are usually antisocial and untrusting *(Finn)*; if any character doesn't love her, that character gets an extremely unsympathetic portrayal *(Kylo Ren)*. She has some sort of especially close relationship to the author's favorite canon character *(Han Solo)* — their love interest, illegitimate child, never-before-mentioned sister, etc. Other than that, the canon characters are quickly reduced to awestruck cheerleaders, watching from the sidelines as Mary Sue outstrips them in their areas of expertise and solves problems that have stymied them for the entire series.


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 19, 2015)

Finn wasn't antisocial and untrusting..

He trusted an enemy soldier to safely get him out the base.

Kylo Ren _is_ sympathetic

And Han Solo being the fave is a stretch

Did you write this, bro? Do you even Star Wars, bro?


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 19, 2015)

>i'd question the credibility of anyone who rates this film higher than a score that is above average


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 19, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> *Kylo wasn't antisocial and untrusting..
> 
> He trusted an enemy soldier to safely get him out the base.
> *
> ...



do you mean poe?


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 19, 2015)

Oops, I meant Finn, he was very trusting and sociable.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 19, 2015)

i mean

in that specific situation, it's poe who was doing the trusting more than finn, i think. it's not like it's in poe's interests to fuck finn over and rat him out. it's definitely in poe's best interests to get them both out of the base. so y'know finn doesn't have to trust, he can just rely on poe's self-interest

but yes in general finn was a good guy


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 19, 2015)

Both ends could have possibly set the other for a trap. Finn could have just as easily been used to follow Poe to his droid and then contact the first order when they're close. Poe could have  sent Finn to  the resistance to be used for information and then imprisoned.

Initiating the plan with these being a possibility (no matter how unlikely), is a sign of trust imo.


----------



## Bishamon (Dec 19, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> People are defending this film
> 
> 
> I'd question the credibility of anyone who rates this film higher than 6/10



> Uchiha Avatar
> *Grimmjow*sensei


----------



## Rindaman (Dec 19, 2015)

tari101190 said:


> Oh god, she is a mary sue:



Hell yea she's a Mary Sue.  I just watched it again last night,


*Spoiler*: __ 



All the scenes with her and Han in the Falcon are kind of cringe worthy with her telling Han of all people what's best for The Falcon at every turn, once is one thing.  Then you have all those times she just pull shit out of a socket and it literally did whatever she wanted. lol


----------



## makeoutparadise (Dec 19, 2015)

It was good but not compelling *I wanted it to be more compelling AND more Original like if I wanted to watch "new hope" then I'll watch new hope if I want to watch a sequel to Starwars then I expected a different plot. *

*The movie felt like a lazy river ride instead of a roller coaster,  sure its nice and pleasant but you can see every twist and turn in the plot way before it even happens. 
For example I've seen this movie twice and on both occasions no one in the audience was really affected or sad when Han Solo died because there was no build up to it and you knew it was going to happen.

AND this is Han Solo HAN SOLO, you know one of the original heroes that made the original starwars awesome men want to be him and women want him,  we should feel as sad as we did when we saw Obi wan die the first time. I should have heard gasps and screams of "NO!" from the audience. 

but the plot was like "Han your son is a sith go and talk to him" "well I guess I'm gonna die then"
*

That being said I this one makes up for the prequels and lenses them from the mind quite nicely.

the movie itself is fine but its purpose is only to set up for the next 2 movies it can't stand alone  by itself without them which is good and bad.


----------



## Harbour (Dec 19, 2015)

Didnt you hear about the first treatment for the Force Awakens (10 pages written by Michael Arndt and called Immortal Legacy, that were fully abandoned by Disney and Abrams)?

*Spoiler*: __ 




In TFA credits four people were mentioned as the screenwriters - George Lucas (Disney didnt use his ideads), JJ Abrams, Lawrence Kasdan and Michael Ardndt.
But actually Michael Arndt was the first screenwriter of the TFA, worked on it till the october 2013, when JJ Abrams was appointed as director. He supposedly worked under the control of George Lucas, but had too agressive time frame to accomplish the scenarion. After that Arndt was fired, and all his ideas were threw off. As i know, he didnt even finished his scenario, but wrote few treatments, about which im telling you now.

10 pages Arndt's treatment was named "Immortal Legacy".

In the opening scene there was the spaceship who turns on his shields and dives into the depths of the star, where the secret base of imperial striketroopers located. We meet the admiral Jian, who has arteficial limbs instead of left arm, leg and part of the head. He tortures the captured smuggler, who suddenly found out about military preparation of the imperial soldiers. When Jian finds out that smuggler said anything to other people, he burns him with firethrower, implanted into his artificial arm.

Next we see the Uradion planet, that was described as the giant Tibet, spinning around the red dwarf star. Academy of the reborned Jedi Order locates here, decorated with the giants statues of Yoda and Alec's Kenobi.The Jedi Order's masters are Luke Skywalker and his wife Miranna. In that moment there are studying the offsprings of the Han and Leia Solo - Naomi and Kayden (Kaiden). We also know that Luke has the daughter named Shaka. Unfortunately, the girl with the famous surname has some problems with her brain. She thinks that it is she the one who will bring the balance to the Force. She built her own Order with lightsabers and trainings, that was described as something between Jedi and Sith study.

Next scene is the Coruscant. The secret agent who works on Leia (Chancellor of the New Republic) stole the top secret information from the archive of the baron Icarius. The baron's people try to stop him but he runs away useing jetpack and gadgets. He is the grandson of the Moff Wilhuff Tarkin - Ralph Tarkin. Working on the New Republic he tries to atone for the sins of his grandpa.

Using the top-secret information, Leia finds out that baron supports the imperials by giving them the weapon. The imperial army also knows about the location of the Jedi Academy. Admiral Han Solo orders the republican fleet to go to Uradion. He himself with Chubakka, Leia, Ralph and droids use the Milennium Falcon to go there and save their offsprings.

When the main characters meet, the imperial ships come and the space battle begins. The twist is the person who is the leader of the invasion. Its Shaka Skywalker. She isnt imperial-sided, she just used the last of the imperial fleet for her own goals. Republican fleet is lost. Jedi use the Force to throw the giant rocks to the landing imperial ships, but that doesnt help much. Ground troops took the Academy. Luke cant kill his own daughter and let Shaka capture him. Han Solo and Chubakka use the Falcon to ramp the imperial ship where Solo offsprings were held. Both Hand and Chubakka die allowing Naomi and Kayden to escape.

Leia escapes and gathers the new army to attack the imperial fleet. Kayden and Naomi Solo, Ralph Tarkin, droids and few other jedi decide to follow the villains, that went to the Dark Worlds - unexplored part of the galaxy. But they need the good ship and the guide who already was in the Dark Worlds. They come to the Doggar planet and find there the Munwei, wilful captain of the spaceship "Starwalker", who is the only character without famous bloodline. After long discussion Munwei agrees to help the heroes.

At that time, on the board of the spaceship "Star Extinguisher" Shaka Skywalker, who now calls herself Shad-Var, slowly sucks the Force out of her father, trying to find out the location of the artifact, that can let her to find the planet, where, according to legends, the Force was born. The one who will find that planet, will get the godlike power. Shad-Var thinks that the only way to save the galaxy is to erase some flaws in it. During the torture Luke sees the Yoda's ghost, who says that his father came to Light Side with the time passed. Luke must to endure that pain to turn Shaka back. After the conversation Yoda disappears.

"Starwalker" finds the planet where the artifact located. They also meet Shad-Var with her troops. After the battle she takes the artifact and turn back to the ship. Heroes are following her and trying to take the control under it. Munwei with his team come to the open space in the suits and turn off the "Star Extinguisher" shields. Parallely they are fighting against striketroopers in the suits. According to Arndt that fight happens outside the spaceship.
Other heroes infiltrates the ship, frees the jedi and the grand battle of the lightsabers happen. Luke is
fighting Shad-Var, but doesnt want to kill her again, and she escapes into the sequel. Ralph Tarkin kills admiral Jian.

In the final heroes contact to Leia and say her that they are staying in the dark worlds to continue their
search for the mysterious planet where the source of the Force located. Luke grants Naomi and Kayden the ranks of the Jedi Knights. Munwei says that the crew of the "Starwalker" decided to join the heroes in their quest.

The spaceship turns on the hyperdrive, goes the hyperspeed aaaaand the credits. To be continued.


----------



## Megaharrison (Dec 19, 2015)

Harbour said:


> Didnt you hear about the first treatment for the Force Awakens (10 pages written by Michael Arndt and called Immortal Legacy, that were fully abandoned by Disney and Abrams)?
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



This sounds a lot better than A New Hope remake


----------



## Fang (Dec 19, 2015)

I think The Force Awakens/Episode VII was a fine movie but it was pretty much has the same failings most of the Prequel Trilogy did in its second half. Like I said in my review on the other page, I was genuinely hoping for a new story that continued the saga after the events of the Prequel and Original Trilogy's.

I didn't want A New Hope/Episode IV 2.0 rehashed to me in a different way. 

Also Finn's character saying things that breaks immersion was a big problem for me:

"Droid, please!"
"Hey, Solo!"
"AW HELL NAW!"

Then the terse emotional scene between Han and Kylo Ren is kind of shit on when you have "Supreme Leader Snoke's" name dropped into the mix which only satisfies in making it feel more hammy and artificial scene then an emotional moment at all. Overall, the hype really inflated Episode VII to something it wasn't, and it really doesn't overshadow the best of the Prequel Trilogy, Revenge of the Sith, at all.

Still a fun movie if derivative and mindless because Disney is too afraid to step out of the Original Trilogy's shadow.


----------



## Pocalypse (Dec 19, 2015)

Definitely enjoyed this film. The plot was similar to a New Hope but rather have that then risk something going for something completely original and fucking it up in the process (sequels). Finally got to see some well shot action in space and kept the lightsaber duels to a minimum, the mix was nice. Finn isn’t a trained fighter whatsoever with the lightsaber so it was expected he’d go down against the stormtrooper which was like his first go using one then against Kylo Ren where he wouldn’t have a shot at all. Expecting him to get stronger in the next films. The guy looks damn well good with a blue lightsabre in his hands.

Finn’s funniest line was telling Han that they’ll use the force when the time comes to bring down the shields, LMAO the whole cinema cracked up at that scene. Was prolly the funniest part in the entire film. 

Rey’s a goddamn quick learner when it comes to the force, felt she should have struggled more and shown more pain when Kylo was interrogating her, fair enough she shows a bit of resistance but Kylo who is a semi-trained warrior and with more experience than Rey didn’t get any advantage over her, the guy was either holding back or legit scared at the prospect of Rey’s powers of the force. Would have been better for a bigger emotional impact but she pretty much cruised through this film. Her commanding the Stormtrooper at first to untie her shackles was funny though, he comes and makes them more tighter lol 

I can definitely get behind her as the main protag in these sequels, especially when her past is explored further and we get a better emotional experience. And tone down her fighting expertise against Kylo where she can actually struggle. 

Was glad to see Kylo Ren was an untrained sith which made his defeat against Rey more believable at the end. Gotta say I fell for his trap at the end with Kylo, the guy was teary eyed and shit and I thought he was going to join Han’s side but nope, he stabs him. There were a few gasps from the crowd including me. I hope we learn what his motivation was to join the First Order because nothing was explored about him, not even minor glimpses of his past other than he’s just Han’s and Leia’s son. Excited to see where they will go with him and Leia, how far he will fall to the dark side. 

Things I didn’t like was that yellow midget woman with the googly eyes and goggles, don’t even know what her name was but she brought nothing to the story. She was just boring, I thought she had powers where she could tell who is telling the truth and who is lying because when she jumped up to analyse Finn, I expected her to reveal the truth about him being a stromtrooper to the group. That’s what I thought was going on until she just said he likes to run away lmao

Han and Leia reconnection wasn’t emotional as I expected it to be, too much dialogue about their past and the good ol’ days. 

Rey’s experience with the ships is questionable, one scene she pulled out a random socket or whatever it was and the problem was solved. Also the Falcoln was there for years and she powered it up like it was just a normal ship that she’s been flying around with 

Other than that it was a good film, has a rewatch value and will watch this again in a few days. Hyped for the two remaining sequels now.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 19, 2015)

"how we're going to get in?"
"we'll use the force"
"...that's not how the force works "

was the best part of the film.


----------



## Pocalypse (Dec 19, 2015)

Is Poe supposed to be the next Han? Got a similar vibe off him like that.


----------



## strongarm85 (Dec 19, 2015)

Harbour said:


> Didnt you hear about the first treatment for the Force Awakens (10 pages written by Michael Arndt and called Immortal Legacy, that were fully abandoned by Disney and Abrams)?
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



That sounds fucking horrible. I mean I would rather see a film adaptation of the new Jedi order with the Fucking Yuuzhan Vong on screen coming out of no where and ruining everybody's fucking day, complete with a fucking moon being dropped on Chewbacca, than watch that shit.

The actual Expanded Universe is better than any of that fucking shit. If Michael Arndt actually wrote that shit, even under the supervision of George Lucas, I would have absolutely fucking fired his ass too because that was pile of literary garbage.

Do you guys even understand why they went back to an old formula tested formula to tell this story? Its because this movie is responsible for a lot of World Building that needs to set this series on it's new course.

The Force Awakens has problems to be sure. But they aren't Prequel problems. They are technical problems. Problems that every movie has.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 19, 2015)

> Things I didn’t like was that yellow midget woman with the googly eyes and goggles, don’t even know what her name was but she brought nothing to the story. She was just boring,



amen

she was exposition woman

that was her whole function


----------



## Fang (Dec 19, 2015)

They are prequel tier problems when both Bogeya's and Driver's acting was absolutely fucking horrible and Rey has no build up or development yet can do things impossibly after 10 minutes of hearing about the Jedi.

TFA is a very flawed movie.

It has the same flaws the Prequels did but with the added fact it fails to actually have any soul of originality to it.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 19, 2015)

TFA is a much better movie than any of the prequels 

if you think otherwise, you don't know much about movies


----------



## Fang (Dec 19, 2015)

Plinkett pls go


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 19, 2015)

lucas pls go


----------



## Fang (Dec 19, 2015)

Jew Jew Abrams pls go


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 19, 2015)

jew jew abrams > lucas
plinkett > you


----------



## Fang (Dec 19, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> jew jew abrams > lucas
> plinkett > you





Kershner > Abrams
Lucas > Plinkett

Have fun fam


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 19, 2015)

I do not agree that it had the same problems as the prequels. it didn't scarf tons of exposition down our throats,( in fact when you think about it-- we came out knowing only the bare minimum)

It also handled relationships better and the characters didn't feel as wooden.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 19, 2015)

Fang said:


> Kershner > Abrams
> Lucas > Plinkett
> 
> Have fun fam



thank you for revealing your actual problem with the movie: you're racist


----------



## Fang (Dec 19, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> thank you for revealing your actual problem with the movie: you're racist



Autism over-drive

I bet you're part of the same  rabid fandom that defends Driver's shit performance and Rey's characterization


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 19, 2015)

yeaa..but what was wrong with what Abrams said?


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 19, 2015)

> *BOX OFFICE: STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS Has Already Passed $250 Million Worldwide*
> 
> Avatar had best enjoy being the highest grossing movie of all-time while it can, because Star Wars: The Force Awakens is having an historic weekend. It grossed $120.5 million in North America yesterday, a figure which means it decimates all previous opening day records (it's also the first movie to debut with over $100 million). When you add the $129.5 millon it has so far grossed overseas since opening on Thursday, the J.J. Abrams helmed return to a Galaxy Far, Far Away has already earned over $250 million worldwide. That's set to increase dramatically over the next few days too, especially as analysts are now predicting a total haul in North America this weekend of between $240 - 245 million. Overwhelmingly positive reviews and strong word of mouth (it has an A CinemaScore) has led to theaters making even more screen available for it to be shown on too, and while Star Wars: The Force Awakens doesn't open in China until January 9th, that too should add a huge amount to its overall haul. Which record will it break next? How about all of 'em!


to show off Naruto's new ougi


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 19, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> yeaa..but what was wrong with what Abrams said?


there are no black people in space, gesy

except for lando and windu

they're the only ones





Fang said:


> Autism over-drive
> 
> I bet you're part of the same  rabid fandom that defends Driver's shit performance and Rey's characterization



>trying to have an opinion anything after defending the prequels


----------



## Pocalypse (Dec 19, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> amen
> 
> she was exposition woman
> 
> that was her whole function



Yeah she was shit

Unrelated to that, what do you think will happen to Leia, will she suffer the same fate as Han from Kylo? Would be quiet extreme to kill both of the parents off but with Han dying so early it's a damn possibility.


----------



## Fang (Dec 19, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> yeaa..but what was wrong with what Abrams said?



"White people are bad." - JJ Abrams.



Lucaniel said:


> there are no black people in space, gesy
> 
> except for lando and windu
> 
> ...



>trying to have an opinion anything after defending Abram's
>being this much of a corporate shill


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 19, 2015)

Pocalypse said:


> Yeah she was shit
> 
> Unrelated to that, what do you think will happen to Leia, will she suffer the same fate as Han from Kylo? Would be quiet extreme to kill both of the parents off but with Han dying so early it's a damn possibility.



i severely doubt that kylo will kill leia. that would, like you said, be overkill. won't happen. but i don't know if leia will die as a result of something else that the first order does, in a way which maybe triggers kylo's redemption arc - that could happen

and i'd be okay with it because having all these OT people hanging out is gonna be kind of a drag. out with the old, in with the new


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 19, 2015)

Fang said:


> >trying to have an opinion anything after defending Abram's
> >being this much of a corporate shill



to cut down on the effort of doing it again every time, just imagine that every time you said something, i replied with 



> >trying to have an opinion anything after defending the prequels


----------



## Fang (Dec 19, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> to cut down on the effort of doing it again every time, just imagine that every time you said something, i replied with



>autism this OP
>having an opinion anything while defending  a rehashed soulless derivative copy of ANH with nothing else going for it


----------



## Pocalypse (Dec 19, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> i severely doubt that kylo will kill leia. that would, like you said, be overkill. won't happen. but i don't know if leia will die as a result of something else that the first order, in a way which maybe triggers kylo's redemption arc - that could happen
> 
> and i'd be okay with it because having all these OT people hanging out is gonna be kind of a drag. out with the old, in with the new



That occured to me too, if it's not Kylo then I can see someone like Snoke offing Leia. Luke is another contender if they want to heat up the relationship even further between Rey and Kylo, after Rey is fully trained. One of these oldies will bite the dust.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 19, 2015)

Luke has a better chance of death (by sacrifice) then Leia does.


----------



## Fang (Dec 19, 2015)

Luke isn't going to die. 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Han's death was already transparently obvious to viewers and fans with Episode VII. They aren't going to kill off the rest of the original cast, its too jarring for a change and too damning with OT fans to do so. Han's death was also pretty fucking stupid the way it was executed so its unlikely the original hero would be done so as well.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 19, 2015)

Pocalypse said:


> That occured to me too, if it's not Kylo then I can see someone like Snoke offing Leia. Luke is another contender if they want to heat up the relationship even further between Rey and Kylo, after Rey is fully trained. One of these oldies will bite the dust.



luke's more likely to bite it it than leia cuz it'd be harsh for a married couple with all the romantic freight from the OT to both bite it, esp with a kid

what's gonna be fun is watching snoke train kylo

i don't think the movies have ever gone into sith training before


----------



## Matta Clatta (Dec 19, 2015)

I just realized Rey was the only brit sounding character in this movie. 
Also there's a lot of easter eggs in this movie that I missed on my first watch


----------



## CrimsonRex (Dec 19, 2015)

Well, Driver really made it seem like his character was related to Hayden's character, so that's a plus.  I really loved the Death Star + Star Forge superweapon.


----------



## Pocalypse (Dec 19, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> luke's more likely to bite it it than leia cuz it'd be harsh for a married couple with all the romantic freight from the OT to both bite it, esp with a kid
> 
> what's gonna be fun is watching snoke train kylo
> 
> i don't think the movies have ever gone into sith training before



Yeah we haven't seen on-screen sith training, Anakin was the closest but he never got trained as a sith, just a Jedi. That's what I like about Kylo, he's semi-trained. 

Be fun to see who Snoke will fight, Luke?


----------



## Fang (Dec 19, 2015)

CrimsonRex said:


> Well, Driver really make it seem like his character was related to Hayden's character, so that's a plus.  I really loved the Death Star + Star Forge superweapon.



Tbh fam he doesn't even remotely look physically related to Han, Leia, Anakin, or Luke.


----------



## strongarm85 (Dec 19, 2015)

About Rey


*Spoiler*: __ 



I bet money there is going to be an explanation about how Rey was suddenly able to develop force skill very quickly. It's already happened before in Star War media with Revan. In Revan's case it was a circumstance were he had already been trained as a Jedi in the past, but when the Jedi captured him they gave him amnesia about his previous life. I bet this is the same deal with Rey.


----------



## Pocalypse (Dec 19, 2015)

Fang said:


> Tbh fam he doesn't even remotely look physically related to Han, Leia, Anakin, or Luke.



Reminded me a lot of Snape


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 19, 2015)

Pocalypse said:


> Yeah we haven't seen on-screen sith training, Anakin was the closest but he never got trained as a sith, just a Jedi. That's what I like about Kylo, he's semi-trained.
> 
> Be fun to see who Snoke will fight, Luke?



could go either way, luke or rey


----------



## CrimsonRex (Dec 19, 2015)

Fang said:


> Tbh fam he doesn't even remotely look physically related to Han, Leia, Anakin, or Luke.



True, but he got his granddaddy's temper tantrums perfectly, and the long hair.



strongarm85 said:


> About Rey
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



It was okay with Revan because one can bring up the excuse of his body already "knowing the experience" and what now. Rey literally performed a force technique she never knew about on Daniel Craig and it worked.


----------



## Fang (Dec 19, 2015)

Pocalypse said:


> Reminded me a lot of Snape



Just trying to figure out why they choose a guy who looks physically the opposite of Luke and Anakin in every way. It seems more like he's some spoiled adopted foster child of Han and Leia then their actual biological son.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 19, 2015)

CrimsonRex said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> It was okay with Revan because one can bring up the excuse of his body already "knowing the experience" and what now. Rey literally performed a force technique she never knew about on Daniel Craig and it worked.



"never knew about" till it was just used on her 

there was a clear causal connection between that and her then doing it


----------



## Rindaman (Dec 19, 2015)

It wasn't just the force, everything she tried just worked.  


Luke is a brilliant character by comparison.  At least he had flaws  and had to rely on others right up until Vader turned back into Anakin.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 19, 2015)

Don't think we'll get to see Kylo's Training. Things like that usually happens between films.

Luke will train Rey
Snoke will train Kylo

Round 2 next film


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 19, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> Don't think we'll get to see Kylo's Training. *Things like that usually happens between films.*
> 
> Luke will train Rey
> Snoke will train Kylo
> ...


not in tesb


----------



## Fang (Dec 19, 2015)

CrimsonRex said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> It was okay with Revan because one can bring up the excuse of his body already "knowing the experience" and what now. Rey literally performed a force technique she never knew about on Daniel Craig and it worked.



Issue is that she picks up on Jedi Mind Trick within a few hours prior of only just learning about the existence of Jedi and the Force, she also reverse's Kylo Ren's telepathic mind probe to see his own memories instinctively and calling Anakin's lightsaber to her hand in the final duel after Finn is put down by Ren.

It doesn't feel organic she's picking up on these powers this rapidly in such a short duration of time.


----------



## CrimsonRex (Dec 19, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> "never knew about" till it was just used on her
> 
> there was a clear causal connection between that and her then doing it




*Spoiler*: __ 



When was it used on her? Only techniques I remember were performed against her were Force Stasis, Mind Probe and being rendered unconscious


.


----------



## KazeYama (Dec 19, 2015)

Anyone else think Snoke is not even gonna fight? I mean they made him totally CG and his face was all messed up he could be incredibly wise in the dark side (Kylo says this), but he relies on his pawns to do all the dirty work. 

If the Snoke=Plagueis thing ends up being true which I could care less either way, but it would make sense that Palpatine had to fuck him up badly enough where he thought he was dead. So Snoke could have been badly hurt enough to be unable to really use the force anymore but he now relies on Kylo and the rest of the knights of ren to do the work for him.  I would rather see a cerebral villain like OT palpatine instead of Snoke eventually having a long drawn out Saber fight. Especially the way he projects himself to be larger than life it feels like he is overcompensating for his own weakness. 

So I think Ep.8 is going to be focused on the knights of ren and taking them down while Kylo rises to power. Like Rey, Finn, and any other jedi they take out all the other knights but then Luke loses to Kylo at the end similar to empire it ends on a down note. Then we get ep.9 where to beat Snoke you have to beat Kylo and redeem him. 

I don't really want to be shocked or have the story go in a totally new direction. I was perfectly happy with them returning to previous story beats cause that is how mythology works. People will probably disagree but I would rather have some safe yet satisfying films for this trilogy rather than they take the story some completely random direction that ends up ruining everything. I think maintaining the integrity of the IP in terms of tone, direction, and visual style is more important than creating a crazy new story. They can do that stuff in future anthology films where they have more room to play without the risk of tarnishing what has come before or after.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 19, 2015)

CrimsonRex said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...





there are actual names for the shit he did? did they show up in subtitles or something? all that he did was go TELL ME WHERE HE IS and wave his hand at her while there was a distant roar in the surround sound that came and went

as i processed it, that's shorthand for "jedi mind trick" and so he did a jedi mind trick on her which didn't work, and then she figured out how to do it from experience 

if you're gonna go "oh but he used force probe, not these-are-not-the-droids-fu, so it doesn't make sense" 

then uh

okay


----------



## CrimsonRex (Dec 19, 2015)

Fang said:


> Issue is that she picks up on Jedi Mind Trick within a few hours prior of only just learning about the existence of Jedi and the Force, she also reverse's Kylo Ren's telepathic mind probe to see his own memories instinctively and calling Anakin's lightsaber to her hand in the final duel after Finn is put down by Ren.
> 
> It doesn't feel organic she's picking up on these powers this rapidly in such a short duration of time.




*Spoiler*: __ 



I'm amazed Kylo let her stand and meditate to get heroic second wind in the final battle.






> as i processed it, that's shorthand for "jedi mind trick" and so he did a jedi mind trick on her which didn't work, and then she figured out how to do it from experience
> 
> if you're gonna go "oh but he used force probe, not these-are-not-the-droids-fu, so it doesn't make sense"



This may surprise you, but even in the movies, there were established techniques via the force. Subverting your own will over that of a weaker minded individual is different than you literally diving into their mind to get information out of them against their will. Only reason she resisted is because of her Force Iron Will plotkai maneuver.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 19, 2015)

CrimsonRex said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> I'm amazed Kylo let her stand and meditate to get heroic second wind in the final battle.



Because he stopped wanting to kill her and thought to convert her instead?


----------



## Gunners (Dec 19, 2015)

Was it stated that Finn is not force sensitive. I found his accuracy, when you consider it was his first time, noteworthy.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 19, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> Because he stopped wanting to kill her and thought to convert her instead?



i don't think he ever actually wanted to kill her, wasn't he doing the whole JOIN OR DIE speech the whole time? 

like, he stopped at that moment because he had almost pushed her over a cliff into lava, and she couldn't join him if she was dead, so he was giving her a chance to say yes


----------



## Guiness (Dec 19, 2015)

Suigetsu said:


> Everyone is blinded by hype.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



i don't remember jacen being such a pussy though. jacen's character was much more interesting too.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 19, 2015)

Gunners said:


> Was it stated that Finn is not force sensitive. I found his accuracy, when you consider it was his first time, noteworthy.



Nope it's left open

I'm hanging onto the theory that he is FS, but not a prodigy like Rey, since he _was_ able to give Kylo something to worry about. I was told FS have naturally faster reflexes so that shouldn't be.


Lucaniel said:


> i don't think he ever actually wanted to kill her, wasn't he doing the whole JOIN OR DIE speech the whole time?
> 
> like, he stopped at that moment because he had almost pushed her over a cliff into lava, and she couldn't join him if she was dead, so he was giving her a chance to say yes



Maybe, lol

Can't remember when the "JOIN OR DIE" speech started specifically.


----------



## crazymtf (Dec 19, 2015)

Super fun movie to watch in theaters. Had so much fun. Going again today.


----------



## Fang (Dec 19, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> Maybe, lol
> 
> Can't remember when the "JOIN OR DIE" speech started specifically.



It wasn't clear if he was trying to seduce Rey to the dark side or not after she escapes her confinement on the base. He deliberately pushes her to the very edge of the cliff after his last attempt to get her to turn and is trying to shove her over it's edge while their sabers are locked together.

Then again it might be deliberate that his actions are contradictory.


----------



## Pocalypse (Dec 19, 2015)

Gunners said:


> Was it stated that Finn is not force sensitive. I found his accuracy, when you consider it was his first time, noteworthy.



Wasn't mentioned but he has to be somewhat since he dueled with Kylo and even landed a hit on him. It will develop in the next film.

I can't remember but have we ever had duelists who are NOT force sensitive? Nothing comes to my mind


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 19, 2015)

Yes I agree ab. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



Personally I hope Luke gets a look at him when they meet in one of the Resistance's HQ in Episode VIII. Luke should know if the Force is somewhere around him even if he isn't a prodigy like Rey.


----------



## Orochibuto (Dec 19, 2015)

Bart said:


> *Undeniable proof supporting the 'Snoke is Plageius' theory (MAJOR SPOILERS)*
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



"The Supreme Leader is wise." - Whino Ren.


----------



## Orochibuto (Dec 19, 2015)

Tempproxy said:


> A force user? No she wasn't. Hell if we go by what the God of Star Wars has said then Anakin had the biggest potential ever and his son Luke wasn't even this adept at using the force at first. Things like using the Force for foresight isn't to far fetched since Anakin and Luke did it prior to receiving training(Although ones father is the Force and the other his grandfather is the force). Badass Rey just seemed overly forced, she didn't have to be invincible to drive home the concept of being a potential threat to the dark side (Think Luke in ANH).



Vader was massively gimped, he was significantly weaker than Sidious, where full potential should be twice as powerful as Sidious. Not to mention, Luke by the point he faced Vader had advanced enough training, advanced enough that it is implied if he had finished his training with Yoda, he would be ready to defeat Darth Sidious.

A 100% potential Anakin, would had raped the shit out of Luke and even Sidious, the Anakin that Luke fought was far and away from that.

Rey on the other hand, had zero, absolutely zero training, as far as we know. Not to mention how she could pilot a ship expertly and had technical knowledgement despite by her own admission, never flying a ship. I know Force intuition has been a thing in Star Wars, but with Rey it seemed less like intiution and more like she could channel direct knowledgement.

This is without taking in count her battle feats, where she defeats a guy that was trained by Luke and Snoke and was powerful enough to stop a blaster midair, likely had years of training and was constantly trying to get stronger.

Rey without training at all, is at least Episode II Anakin level.

Either The Force returned to the OT concept where it is an infinite field that can be harnessed with no limitation except that of the user's mind or Snoke is actually Plagueis, created Rey (directly or indirectly) as he did with Anakin and is playing fool by pretending to not know who she is. Or she is Luke's daughter.


----------



## KazeYama (Dec 19, 2015)

Fang said:


> It wasn't clear if he was trying to seduce Rey to the dark side or not after she escapes her confinement on the base. He deliberately pushes her to the very edge of the cliff after his last attempt to get her to turn and is trying to shove her over it's edge while their sabers are locked together.
> 
> Then again it might be deliberate that his actions are contradictory.



He says that he senses her power and that he can train her during the duel. Whether or not he changes his mind once he starts to lose is up for debate. He definitely doesn't seem as eager to murder her compared to how he trashed Finn without remorse.


----------



## BigPoppaPump (Dec 19, 2015)

Orochibuto said:


> Vader was massively gimped, he was significantly weaker than Sidious, where full potential should be twice as powerful as Sidious. Not to mention, Luke by the point he faced Vader had advanced enough training, advanced enough that it is implied if he had finished his training with Yoda, he would be ready to defeat Darth Sidious.
> 
> A 100% potential Anakin, would had raped the shit out of Luke and even Sidious, the Anakin that Luke fought was far and away from that.
> 
> ...



If she ends up being Luke's daughter I think that'll be even more obvious than the 4th Hokage being Naruto's dad.


----------



## Gilgamesh (Dec 19, 2015)

> TFA is a much better movie than any of the prequels



Only AOTC but that doesn't mean much, TPM and ROTS are much better.


----------



## The Runner (Dec 19, 2015)

The bad part of this movie is that it's trying a recycled plot.

Seriosly, even the movie itself made fun of it.


----------



## Pocalypse (Dec 19, 2015)

Gilgamesh said:


> Only AOTC but that doesn't mean much, *TPM* and ROTS are much better.





TPM is a pile of shit


----------



## Matta Clatta (Dec 19, 2015)

If you think some of the prequels are better than TFA then you probably never really appreciated the OT that much
I mean ROTS is the best prequel movie and it is hardly close to TFA in terms of quality. I mean TFA isn't perfect but its probably right there with ROTJ in my SW movie hierarchy 
1.ESB
2.ANH
3.ROTJ/TFA
4.ROTS
5.TPM
6.AOTC

A star wars movie done for the fans was a long time coming 
First line of the movie is even a dig at the prequels which I think is cool


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 19, 2015)

Gilgamesh said:


> Only AOTC but that doesn't mean much, TPM and ROTS are much better.


i spy a jar jar lover


----------



## Pocalypse (Dec 19, 2015)

Matta Clatta said:


> If you think some of the prequels are better than TFA then you probably never really appreciated the OT that much
> I mean ROTS is the best prequel movie and it is hardly close to TFA in terms of quality.
> 
> A star wars movie done for the fans was a long time coming
> First line of the movie is even a dig at the prequels which I think is cool



I can understand TFA being equal to or greater than ROTS but TPM, the worst Star Wars film and AOTC better than TFA? That's just bullshit.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 19, 2015)

TFA > the prequels, but they have a leg up in terms of originality

TFA doesn't offer anything that I think will be looked at in retrospect as iconic like the pod race or the climactic duel from TPM


----------



## Fang (Dec 19, 2015)

Matta Clatta said:


> If you think some of the prequels are better than TFA then you probably never really appreciated the OT that much
> I mean ROTS is the best prequel movie and it is hardly close to TFA in terms of quality. I mean TFA isn't perfect but its probably right there with ROTJ in my SW movie hierarchy
> 1.ESB
> 2.ANH
> ...



>ANH above RoTJ
>TFA equal to RoTJ


----------



## Stunna (Dec 19, 2015)

lol        Fang


----------



## Pocalypse (Dec 19, 2015)

Stunna said:


> TFA > the prequels, but they have a leg up in terms of originality
> 
> TFA doesn't offer anything that I think will be looked at in retrospect as iconic like the pod race or the climactic duel from TPM



Something "original" doesn't necessarily have to be good or possess the quality for it. Pod racing is original but it was considered bland and pointless mostly everywhere.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 19, 2015)

Whether people think pod racing was bland or not is irrelevant to whether it is memorable as an iconic moment in the Star Wars series.

Originality does not necessarily equate to quality, but it is a factor to be taken into account when determining quality.

The quality of TFA takes a huge hit because it's a really unoriginal movie. Egregiously so.

What TFA moments do you think will be cemented as iconic?


----------



## Fang (Dec 19, 2015)

Stunna said:


> Whether people think pod racing was bland or not is irrelevant to whether it is memorable as an iconic moment in the Star Wars series.
> 
> Originality does not necessarily equate to quality, but it is a factor to be taken into account when determining quality.
> 
> ...



To be honest I'm pretty much in sync  with you on this. TFA apes and mimics the general layout and story of ANH heavily with bits and pieces of TESB and RoTJ thrown into the mix. I don't really think there's anything that's unique to it outside of Kylo Ren's crossguard lightsaber.

I mean the quality levels of the prequel films kind of dipped all over the place but outside of that there's nothing memorable about TFA. We have a revisited and updated version of ANH with prettier visuals and altered cast going through the same motions and story cycle that the Original Trilogy's cast did.



Pocalypse said:


> Something "original" doesn't necessarily have to be good or possess the quality for it. Pod racing is original but it was considered bland and pointless mostly everywhere.



Never saw this. When Episode I came out, it was one of the most lauded and loved scenes of TPM in my personal experience.


----------



## Orochibuto (Dec 19, 2015)

Matta Clatta said:


> If you think some of the prequels are better than TFA then you probably never really appreciated the OT that much
> I mean ROTS is the best prequel movie and it is hardly close to TFA in terms of quality. I mean TFA isn't perfect but its probably right there with ROTJ in my SW movie hierarchy
> 1.ESB
> 2.ANH
> ...



TFA beats the prequels (or is at least equal to ROTS)because of how enjoyable it is and how easy to digest it is. But honestly, it was a near literal copy paste of ANH and Mary Sue Rey doesn't help either.

They better think something for the upcoming movie, because they will not be able to get away with a copy paste of ESB.

>>>>>>

@Fang, the podracing thing in my opinion was a headache. The excuse to get to it was ridiculously convulted, Qui Gonn had no problem in mindfucking Watto into accepting credits that were worthless in Tatooine. If he was willing to do that, why not just steal the part? Or mindfuck another merchant into exchanging the credits for money Watto accepted? Or Trade the luxurious ship for a functional more rusty ship? Or simply hire someone that accept Republic Credits to take them to Coruscant? The racing plot was ridiculously convulted.


----------



## Sauce (Dec 19, 2015)

The prequels lacked a lot of things but never in the lightsaber duels.


----------



## Wonder Mike (Dec 19, 2015)

I'm hearing a lot of bad things about this. Should I watch it?


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 19, 2015)

Stunna said:


> Whether people think pod racing was bland or not is irrelevant to whether it is memorable as an iconic moment in the Star Wars series.



wat 

who randomly elected pod racing an iconic moment anyway

what consensus are you referencing


----------



## Stunna (Dec 19, 2015)

it just ... _is_

look at promotional material, games, what people mention when talking about Star Wars, etc.

are you saying it _isn't_?


----------



## TasteTheDifference (Dec 19, 2015)




----------



## Fang (Dec 19, 2015)

Stunna said:


> it just ... _is_
> 
> look at promotional material, games, what people mention when talking about Star Wars, etc.
> 
> are you saying it _isn't_?



He's just being contrarian for the sake of it. The popularity and enjoyment of the podracing scenes were so high that it made the Episode 1: Podracer game a massive hit and commercial success.


----------



## Gabe (Dec 19, 2015)

The pod racer scene was good I remember that even though the movie was not good. It was memorials I was twelve when I saw the movie in theaters and played the game on my 64 . That was probably the worst movie but the pod racing and darth maul were a high light. 


Saw it again today still amazing I enjoyed it as a long time Star Wars fan I still think it's great. Ren has potential and poe is awesome I really want more of him in the sequel


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 19, 2015)

if you wanna talk about prequel SW stuff that's iconic despite sucking

then that would be jar jar

he would prolly make a top 20 of things people think of when they think of SW

sad but true


----------



## Rukia (Dec 19, 2015)

Stunna said:


> TFA > the prequels, but they have a leg up in terms of originality
> 
> TFA doesn't offer anything that I think will be looked at in retrospect as iconic like the pod race or the climactic duel from TPM


The pod race is iconic?


----------



## Fang (Dec 19, 2015)

Stunna said:


> just because something isn't top 10 iconic doesn't mean it isn't iconic
> 
> saying it wouldn't even crack top 20 is hyperbole
> 
> ...



http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/.../into-the-arena-attack-of-the-clones-20141113

Rolling Stones disagrees with him anyways.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 19, 2015)

@Rukia

relatively so, yes

next


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 19, 2015)

Stunna said:


> just because something isn't top 10 iconic doesn't mean it isn't iconic
> 
> saying it wouldn't even crack top 20 is hyperbole
> 
> ...



man i can't face the post filets and the slippery rhetoric and the appeals to subjectivity and general idiocy today

fuck u stunna


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 19, 2015)

naw, you're obviously ignorant of the difference between popular and iconic


----------



## crazymtf (Dec 19, 2015)

Stunna said:


> Whether people think pod racing was bland or not is irrelevant to whether it is memorable as an iconic moment in the Star Wars series.
> 
> Originality does not necessarily equate to quality, but it is a factor to be taken into account when determining quality.
> 
> ...



For me personally? 


*Spoiler*: __ 



Han and Chewie First appearing, the first look at the Falcon again, showing Luke's LS again, Kylo killing Han, the moment when she used the force to get the LS, and Luke at the end. Those are the moments that I'll remember. Phantom, the only thing I can remember was the Duel at the end, mostly do to music. 

That's it.


----------



## crazymtf (Dec 19, 2015)

Wonder Mike said:


> I'm hearing a lot of bad things about this. Should I watch it?



You mean about 90% of people enjoying it, 5 thinking it's just okay, and maybe 5 percent thinking it's somehow bad will sway you to go see this movie? 

Do yourself a favor. If you've ever seen the prequels watch this, you'll get to wash that terrible/horrible taste out your mouth from some of the worst movies ever made.


----------



## Detective (Dec 19, 2015)

Why are we using spoiler tags right now? The film has been released internationally, and anyone entering this thread at this time does so at their own risk.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 19, 2015)

Yeah, no, enter this thread at your own risk, but it is a nice decency to tag your posts.

It's not mandatory, though.


----------



## Rukia (Dec 19, 2015)

Stunna talking about decency after he knifed me in the back.


----------



## Matta Clatta (Dec 19, 2015)

There is nostalgia mining which I agree TFA does a lot of to great effect and then there's being unoriginal 
There are plenty of new concepts in TFA though


----------



## Detective (Dec 19, 2015)

Rukia said:


> Stunna talking about decency after he knifed me in the back.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 19, 2015)

**


----------



## Gilgamesh (Dec 19, 2015)

crazymtf said:


> You mean about 90% of people enjoying it, 5 thinking it's just okay, and maybe 5 percent thinking it's somehow bad will sway you to go see this movie?
> 
> Do yourself a favor. If you've ever seen the prequels watch this, you'll get to wash that terrible/horrible taste out your mouth from some of the worst movies ever made.



Expect the PT>>>this shit 

JJ wishes he had the creativity and originality of Lucas. His only talent is taking franchises and ruining them.


----------



## Fang (Dec 19, 2015)

Matta Clatta said:


> There is nostalgia mining which I agree TFA does a lot of to great effect and then there's being unoriginal
> There are plenty of new concepts in TFA though



The plot of TFA follows ANH hard though:

>Rebel Alliance Resistance character has secret information the Empire First Order wants
>Desert planet Tatooine Jakku is where Luke Rey is set on while hounded by the Empire First Order for said information put in a droid R2-D2 BB-8
>Rey and Finn escape from Tatooine Jakku on the Falcon after being chased by Ties from the Empire First Order
>Older mentor figure Obi-Wan Kenobi I mean 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Han Solo


 is killed in the reactor shaft of the Death Star Starkiller
>Luke Rey reacts the same way Luke did
>Alliance Resistance sends in a squadron of starfighters to attack the Death Star Starkiller and destroy it


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 19, 2015)

Rukia said:


> Stunna talking about decency after he knifed me in the back.



Never forget


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 19, 2015)

who's ready for robot spine finn?


----------



## KazeYama (Dec 19, 2015)

Iconic stuff in this film: 

Opening scene with the freezing blaster 

BB-8 

Rey's intro and theme (read a bunch of places people didn't like the score but I thought it was amazing) 

in atmosphere x-wings and Poe's tracking shot on takodana. 

Kylo and Han confrontation 

Forest duel 

the last scene and the music. 


Those stood out the most to me. Definitely enough of the scenes were amazing enough to stand on par with other films. I mean episode 2 had a lack luster duel, episode one had terrible humor, episode 3 felt artificial at times. Even in Jedi some of ewok stuff and jabba stuff could be refined. 
Here is how I look at it. TFA doesn't do anything better than the other star wars movies combined if you only look at the best parts from each film. However if you look at the weakest parts of the other films I think TFA does better in all of those areas than the others. It is the best balanced star wars film since 4,5, maybe even better than 6.


----------



## Fang (Dec 19, 2015)

KazeYama said:


> It is the best balanced star wars film since 4,5, *maybe even better than 6.*


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 19, 2015)

Star Wars: The Force Awakens

6/10


*Spoiler*: __ 




- I'll start right off the bat minus 2 points for the death of Han. I don't mind him actually dying but to bring back the character just to die in that manner is a waste of all our time and is meaningless

- The comedic relief here is really stretching into the prequels territory 

- Kylo is such a whinny bitch that the moment he took off his helm I forever can never take him serious as a villain again. 

- the years have not been kind to Lela and Luke.


What I believe they should have done:

-Finn reasoning for a conscious was never fully explain why out of all the storm troopers he went awol. I thought this would be explain by having him be extremely force sensitive. In the next movie he better be more than Han replacement and be Jedi potential.


-Rey was too much of a Natural in the force. Should have taken a page out of A new Hope and have Rey beat Kylo through unconventional means.

- I'm sorry but the Rebellion and Republic should have had a much larger army and fleet by now.

- You can't possible tell me not one of Luke padawans survived or at least other Jedi out there. 

- shouldn't have reveal Snoke (shitty ass name) and Phasma was a complete bitch hopefully they bring back Boba Fett 2.0


----------



## Megaharrison (Dec 19, 2015)

Regardless of the quality of ep 1, podracing and darth maul will far outlive any cultural relevancy of anything in episode 7, because everything ep 7 has was already from episode 4.

Episode 7 is another Avatar. It will be praised and make a shitton of $$$$ but be completely absent from popular culture shortly after


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 20, 2015)

KazeYama said:


> Iconic stuff in this film:
> 
> Opening scene with the freezing blaster
> 
> ...



all this.

i see it getting nominated for special effects, camera work and characters but lackluster music (with the exception of "scavenger" and the starkiller theme) and unoriginal story really hurt it. its definitely not movie of the year.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 20, 2015)

Ranking for me is

Ep 5
Ep 4
Ep 6
Ep 7
Ep 1
Ep 3
Ep 2

Reason I didn't Ep 3 higher because the entire setup was force in such a way to ensure events happen leading into ep4 but the issue is realistically it could have ended at Ep3 if Mace brought troopers and more Jedi. 

The Council and Senate actually took time to understand the Clone troopers training and programming where they would have known about order 66 and 67 which brings me back to The Windu issue. 
Obi Wan leaving anakin alive after he seen him murder kids
The senate voting in a tyrant


----------



## Tiger (Dec 20, 2015)

lol fuck you all, the movie was very good.


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 20, 2015)

i might see this again. but i don't think for a third time like i did revenge of the sith (i was 14 at the time it came out cut me some slack i loved the action in that one)


----------



## Shark Skin (Dec 20, 2015)

The Mad King said:


> Ranking for me is
> 
> Ep 5
> Ep 4
> ...



About the same as I told my brother yesterday after we saw the film. Although I have Ep. 3 above Ep.1. I'd even have Ep.3 about even with Ep.7 just because I felt both were good, but with flaws. For me Ep.3 had a potentially good plot with poor execution and mostly poor acting. Ep.7 had good acting and mostly good execution, but did feel like too much of a rehash of Ep.4.


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 20, 2015)

i noticed a theme going on

running away

han runs away
luke runs away
finn runs away
rey runs away


----------



## TGM (Dec 20, 2015)

So this movie improved a significant bit upon a second viewing, to where most of my issues with it didn't bother me in the least the second time around. I had initially wrote a really long review that sorta went into a slight bit of a rant at first, but have since adjusted it accordingly, while still mostly keeping that rant intact, for anyone curious to give a look at my full review:


----------



## Bluebeard (Dec 20, 2015)

_Empire Strikes Back_>_A New Hope_>_The Force Awakens_>_Return of the Jedi_>_Revenge of the Sith_>_Phantom Menace_>_The Clone Wars_


----------



## Detective (Dec 20, 2015)

bloodplzkthxlol said:


> i noticed a theme going on
> 
> running away
> 
> ...



Did you also notice that when we see Finn running into the trading post on Jakku, after walking through the extremely hot desert, he is exclaiming that he is so fucking thirsty and needs something to drink.... and low and behold, not seconds later, he sees Rey.

Black man's Kryptonite confirmed


----------



## Fang (Dec 20, 2015)

Bluebeard said:


> _Empire Strikes Back_>_A New Hope_>_The Force Awakens_>_Return of the Jedi_>_Revenge of the Sith_>_Phantom Menace_>_The Clone Wars_


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Dec 20, 2015)

Saw it today. I give it a 9/10. It was a fun movie with an excellent plot, characters, cinematography, gorgeous special effects, amazing dogfights, acting, as well as genuinely heartwarming, funny, and tearjerking moments. If I were to have one criticism, they made the big reveal Kylo Ren a bit too early, but if they have bigger things for for this on the horizon its fine. The lightsaber fights were also a bit of fresh air compared to the overblown, overly flashy Prequel fights. It felt very much like the well choreographed lightsaber battles of the Original Trilogy (minus _A New Hope_ of course). Poe, Finn, and Rey are a great new power trio for this generation, all were extremely well acted and had their moments to shine. Overall, an excellent start to Disney's Star Wars. 

I'd rank the films like this:


_Empire Strikes Back_
_The Force Awakens_
_Return of the Jedi_
_A New Hope_
_Revenge of the Sith_
_The Clone Wars_ (movie, show is far, far superior)
_The Phantom Menace_
_Attack of the Clones_


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 20, 2015)

why does no one talk about the micro clone wars series from the guy who gave us samurai jack?


----------



## NostalgiaFan (Dec 20, 2015)

Don't have enough time to just pull out all my thoughts on the movie so just to summarize my general thoughts

The first half was better then the last half, I felt it started to go a little downhill after the Death Star 3, oh I mean, "Starkiller Base".

The villains are one of the worst parts of this movie. They are either boring copypasted versions of much better ones, lame underused ones that contribute nothing, or annoying whiny characters who lack any sort of intimidation.

John's music was sadly underwhelming to be fair while there were few memorable tracks it was overall not too great as I hoped.

The pacing was the worst part about this movie, everything seemed to just go by too damn fast and certain plot points and character moments felt like they were rushed just to get the movie going. It really made things feel unstable in some parts and like there were so many moments where they could just try to hold up and catch their breaths for a little bit at times.

The positives was that the acting was overall good and the characters did feel more alive and more like they were building up real development and moments with each other unlike the PT and there were some really good moments where I felt like smiling because they came off as really enjoying the movie to the point I was enjoying it with them as well. A lot to be honest. 

Some good action scenes and I may need to see it again but I thought the Lightsaber combat was a nice mix of OT and PT in terms of choreography, I mean of course in the last bit.

So overall I think it was fun and decent movie but a very flawed one as well. Gonna wait and see if my opinion of it grows positive or negative.


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 20, 2015)

whiny/bratty or not kylo's still intimidating because he has a laser sword that can cut off anything of your body off without even trying if you're just a hair too close.


----------



## NostalgiaFan (Dec 20, 2015)

bloodplzkthxlol said:


> whiny/bratty or not kylo's still intimidating because he has a laser sword that can cut off anything of your body off without even trying if you're just a hair too close.


So just like any other main baddie in the Star Wars movies?

With how often I have seen Baddies with laser swords kylo did not manege to intimidate me, especially with those comedy scenes of his where he is going around chopping things up in a fit. Made him more funny then scary.


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 20, 2015)

NostalgiaFan said:


> So just like any other main baddie in the Star Wars movies?
> 
> With how often I have seen Baddies with laser swords kylo did not manege to intimidate me, especially with those comedy scenes of his where he is going around chopping things up in a fit. Made him more funny then scary.



how about the time when he fore pulled and choked that one guy who reported?

btw if people buy into rey being a mary sue can we plz call her marey sue?


----------



## Source (Dec 20, 2015)

An overall well done movie, aside from being an Episode IV copy.

Also, Kylo Ren sucks and Rey is annoying I guess.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 20, 2015)

you guess ?


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 20, 2015)

Kylo Ren is relatively untrained and just spends the entire movie throwing out raw power to compensate for a lack of finesse. Raw power that Rey also has in abundance. The difference between the two characters is that Ren (and this is the interesting thing about his character) is constantly at war with himself internally; He constantly STRUGGLES to fully embrace the dark side. Examples being his conversation with his granpa's helmet/mask, or asking his father to "help him" which from what he ment; embrace the dark side by killing him where he was unsure or unwilling to do it. The dude spends a good chunk of the fight literally punching himself in his own bleeding stomach in a desperate attempt to generate more pain and anger that he can use to fuel his power. In essence, he's faltering.


----------



## Chad (Dec 20, 2015)

^^^

:letgo


----------



## Chad (Dec 20, 2015)

So I just saw the movie, overall it was very enjoyable. I did have some gripes though. Kylo Ren obviously under-performed to many peoples expectations. I was legit mad when I witnessed his performance, but it all made sense when it was confirmed that his training is incomplete. Also, I remember some hype revolving around Gwendoline Christie playing the Chrome Trooper.... lol. Lastly (don't quote me on this), but I seem to recall an interview with Mark Hamill saying that he lost weight for this movie? rofl. Also Rey is bound to struggle training like Luke did, so please stop calling her a sue. 

I would still rank RoTJ, TESB and RotS (novel) higher than The Force Awakens, but this movie is clearly more enjoyable than ANH, RotS (movie), AotC and TPM.


----------



## Source (Dec 20, 2015)

Weiss said:


> you guess ?



I meant I had mixed feelings about Rey while Kylo was just straight up...disappointing. Don't mean that in the power-level sense, either.


----------



## Bergelmir (Dec 20, 2015)

So do you guys think Kylo will do away with the crossguard lightsaber in the next film? 

His saber was reflective of him being unstable, and I imagine he'll have his shit together in the next film. Well, more together than this film, at least. So a normal looking saber to reflect that would be cool.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 20, 2015)

wait guys, Kylo Ren is the Disney version of Jacen Solo, right ?


----------



## Bergelmir (Dec 20, 2015)

Pretty much. If Jacen was really lame.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 20, 2015)

[YOUTUBE]AvsiJppCdmk[/YOUTUBE]

i like how they spliced in lucas saying there would be no episode 7 

ha ha, you cunt, ha ha


----------



## Tony Lou (Dec 20, 2015)

Let me tell you, Rey is the typical feminist if I've ever seen one. Defending herself against attacks on her self-worth though none have been made.

"Han: Here, this one is for you.

Rey: I CAN TAKE CARE OF MYSELF!!!!11

Han: ...Yeah, that's the point of giving you a weapon."

Ohh, and she's even got a non-gendered name! How adorable. Who names their daughter "Rey"?


----------



## Pocalypse (Dec 20, 2015)

Luiz said:


> Let me tell you, Rey is the typical feminist if I've ever seen one. Defending herself against attacks on her self-worth though none have been made.
> 
> "Han: Here, this one is for you.
> 
> ...



That's OTT if you're using that to portray feminism 

Like is that what went through your mind when you watched that scene? She just sounded bold/cocky to me, confident in her abilities even though it may not have been the case since she needed the gun after anyway.


----------



## Tony Lou (Dec 20, 2015)

What is "OTT"?

Yes, obviously. It follows after similar moments like Rey being offended by Finn taking her hand when they're running .


----------



## Pocalypse (Dec 20, 2015)

Over the top, exaggerated

Your example just seems petty


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 20, 2015)

yo luiz, have you met fang

he hates women _and_ black people

you're gonna get along great


----------



## Tony Lou (Dec 20, 2015)

Pocalypse said:


> Over the top, exaggerated
> 
> Your example just seems petty



Rey's anger is often petty, yes.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 20, 2015)

Luiz said:


> Ohh, and she's even got a non-gendered name! How adorable. Who names their daughter "Rey"?


I have known a couple Rachel's in my life, one of them being my paternal grandmother. A few of them have casually gone by "Ray."

I mean, this would be a dumb complaint regardless of whether I had an anecdote or not, but I just figured I'd mention it anyway.


----------



## Tony Lou (Dec 20, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> yo luiz, have you met fang
> 
> he hates women _and_ black people
> 
> you're gonna get along great



I had no idea Rey represented all women. Surely you know that she is an individual before being a woman, hmm?

But I'm sure that folks at Tumblr are far more interested in discussing that with you.


----------



## Tony Lou (Dec 20, 2015)

Since I have your attention, there is one thing I must ask. Was anyone else surprised by how unnecessary it is to receive training in this movie?

The fact that these two had never picked up a lightsaber or even knew the Force existed until this very moment was barely an issue here.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 20, 2015)

yes it was

Finn got rekt in both fights he got in while using a lightsaber

Rey won on account of her being FS and her opponent being shot by a blaster rifle


----------



## Pocalypse (Dec 20, 2015)

You ain't gonna bank your chances on luck all the time especially if Kylo reaches Darth Vader level or surpasses him which he wants to do so yeah training is needed. 

Finn needs the most training and it's to be seen if he is FS, which I believe he is but not as talented as Rey. 

Expect everyone to be stronger the next time around, possibly with Kylo having an advantage in the 2nd film. I really want to see on-screen sith training.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 20, 2015)

what if sith training is just killing a shitload of younglings


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 20, 2015)

want me some lightsaber dualwielding


----------



## Pocalypse (Dec 20, 2015)

Weiss have you seen the film yet?


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 20, 2015)

nope, i need to finish rewatching TESB and ROTJ and then as soon as Im free I'll go see


----------



## Tony Lou (Dec 20, 2015)

Kylo may suck spaceballs now, but we can't forget that he went as far as killing his own father. Even Darth Vader couldn't bring himself to do that to Luke.

The dark side is strong in this one.


----------



## Bluebeard (Dec 20, 2015)

Luiz said:


> Kylo may suck spaceballs now, but we can't forget that he went as far as killing his own father. Even Darth Vader couldn't bring himself to do that to Luke.
> 
> The dark side is strong in this one.



That's part of the reason why I don't think he should be redeemed.


----------



## Harbour (Dec 20, 2015)

He should die in the 9th episode being extremely evil to make him more or less complex villain. Redeeming after unreasonable and insane killing of Han will make him lame pussy.


----------



## Yagami1211 (Dec 20, 2015)

I have the feeling that Kylo Ren is Akanin done right.

The way he faked his redemption just to kill Solo was badass.

However, as far as training goes, he's quite lacking.


----------



## G (Dec 20, 2015)

i liked ren way more than i expected


----------



## Saishin (Dec 20, 2015)

Hey finally we see Chewbacca crossbow used,Han really love to shoot with that thing


----------



## Bubyrd Ratcatcher (Dec 20, 2015)

Yagami1211 said:


> I have the feeling that Kylo Ren is Akanin done right.



They need to explain what happened to him, tho. 
Half of what Kylo said was gibberish, and he has a very distorted image of what Vader represented. 

I expect tons of explanations from episode 08, good luck to the writer and director. So far the story is all over the place.


----------



## Harbour (Dec 20, 2015)

Given JJ Abrams's explanation of Kylo Ren, i gave up on this character.


It seems like they are straightforwardly planning to make him want to do evil things just because. Great.
I wonder did Kylo make some research? All bad guys in history who wanted more power ended their life pretty painful. His grandpa lost part of his power instead, and pretty hot wife and got nothing cool in exchange.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 20, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



if Snoke = Plagueis

and Plagueis is kind of sort of Anakins "father" bc of his Force experiments


then Kylo is working for his evil Great Grandpa ?


----------



## Rindaman (Dec 20, 2015)

I hope they actually let Finn do something worth while instead of chase after Rey for an entire film. It's like they decided on a defecting Stormtrooper and thought it was so brilliant that they didn't bother asking where it could go or how they would develop him beyond his defection. Funniest thing about this character is they gave him the bare minimum of an arc and John still managed to kill it.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 20, 2015)

Harbour said:


> It seems like they are straightforwardly planning to make him want to do evil things just because.



Ah...no it doesn't..


----------



## Stunna (Dec 20, 2015)

He does evil to expunge the light. Vader was swayed from the Dark Side because he had loved ones to try and convert him. It seems Kylo wants to destroy anyone who could potentially do the same to him (hence his interactions with Han and his trying to find the location of Luke.)

We'll presumably find out why he joined the Dark Side in a later installment.


----------



## Harbour (Dec 20, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> Ah...no it doesn't..



man, your wishes =/= reality


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 20, 2015)

Stunna said:


> He does evil to expunge the light. Vader was swayed from the Dark Side because he had loved ones to try and convert him. It seems Kylo wants to destroy anyone who could potentially do the same to him (hence his interactions with Han and his trying to find the location of Luke.)
> 
> We'll presumably find out why he joined the Dark Side in a later installment.



Yeah, seems like he feels like Anakin "failed" and he wants to rectify that .

Honestly, it sounds like the weight of his family's legacy was exploited by Snoke.


----------



## Kasuke Sadiki (Dec 20, 2015)

People like to act like Vader/Anakin never had a purpose behind what he did. But a big part of it was trying to bring peace to the galaxy by eliminating the bureaucracy of the Republic (see all the political convos between him and Padme in the prequels) and uniting the galaxy under one supreme ruler. The rebels were the last vestige of that which is why they were working so hard to eliminate them.

Presumably that's the mission Ren is trying to complete that Vader failed at. 

I have mixed feelings about him. He was strong as fuck force wise (doing shit we never saw Vader/Anakin do), but definitely needed some lightsaber training. I wish his battle with Rey had been less decisive, but arguably the only reason she was able to unlock her powers to that extent is because he was the one she was the facing. If he hadn't used his badass mind-reading shit on her, then she wouldn't have resisted it and unlocked her own. Could be cool to see them constantly pushing each other to become stronger in order to try and take the other one out. That's why a stalemate finish to the battle, followed by the ground splitting and separating them would have been better imo. 

So anyone else think Finn has a bit of force sensitivity? (Obviously nowhere near Rey). I thought lightsabers were almost impossible to wield in a duel if you weren't force sensitive? (General Greivious excepted). And he even managed to land a hit on Ren.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 20, 2015)

Nah, Anakin turned to the dark side for selfish reasons and spent the next half of his life regretting he did.


----------



## James Bond (Dec 20, 2015)

Well Ren wasn't exactly 100% going into the fight plus he seemed really amateur (even though he had some impressive feats it's possible he just has a really strong connection to the force) so we will see a much deadlier/skilled Ren in the future.


----------



## Vivo Diez (Dec 20, 2015)

There's been this mary sue talk about Rey, mainly coming from attention whore hipster Max Landis, it did get me thinking though.

Rey has a skill for every problem in the movie : she's an amazing mechanic, scavenger, pilot, learns how to fire blasters like a pro instantly, fights pretty decently with a light saber even though had never held it before, taps into the force pretty easily.


----------



## Fang (Dec 20, 2015)

Anakin was never thrown in lava.


----------



## Kasuke Sadiki (Dec 20, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> Nah, Anakin turned to the dark side for selfish reasons and spent the next half of his life regretting he did.



Not disagreeing with what you're saying. But he had many reasons, and the one I listed was a part of it. There's a reason they had him mention his frustration with the senate and the jedi council so many times.

Obviously Kylo is not gonna know that Anakin came to regret his decision. Everything he's doing is based on stories and lore (and force visions probably), no one alive now knows Anakin's full story. But Ren sees the cause as a righteous one. His mindview is a twisted inverse of people who try to walk the side of good and know they will struggle with temptation and so pray to a higher power to help overcome said temptation. Only in this case his temptation is the light side as opposed to the dark side. His little speeches reminded me a lot of various writings in the bible actually. I'm sure similar things can be found in different religions. 



James Bond said:


> Well Ren wasn't exactly 100% going into the fight plus he seemed really amateur (even though he had some impressive feats it's possible he just has a really strong connection to the force) so we will see a much deadlier/skilled Ren in the future.



Yea that's true, I'd kind of forgotten he was wounded and all that.



Lucaniel said:


> anakin turned to the dark side cuz he had a dream that padme would die in childbirth and sheev said the dark side could save her



Yes that was the tipping point, but it wasn't the only reason. If it was he would have turned back as soon as he found out she died. 

People like to seize on this one point and ignore all the subtle nuances (and the prequels aren't even that subtle for Christ' sake).

Is it not obvious during the OT that Vader has a mission behind what he's doing? Part of it was feeling that he had gone too far to be redeemed, but a part of him also believed in the cause. 



Vivo Diez said:


> There's been this mary sue talk about Rey, mainly coming from attention whore hipster Max Landis, it did get me thinking though.
> 
> Rey has a skill for every problem in the movie : she's an amazing mechanic, scavenger, pilot, learns how to fire blasters like a pro instantly, fights pretty decently with a light saber even though had never held it before, taps into the force pretty easily.


 
I kind of felt this way while watching too. It was enjoyable enough for me to let it slide, but hopefully we see her struggle a bit more next time around.


----------



## Fang (Dec 20, 2015)

Vivo Diez said:


> Rey has a skill for every problem in the movie : she's an amazing mechanic, scavenger, pilot, learns how to fire blasters like a pro instantly, fights pretty decently with a light saber even though had never held it before, taps into the force pretty easily.



Of course that's an issue. She spends most of her life on a desert planet scavenging stuff yet instinctively knows how to fix the Falcon better then Han, its owner, pilot, and ad hoc mechanic. She constantly saves Finn's ass throughout the movie, and she magically gains the Force from simply touching Anakin's lightsaber a day or two earlier on Maz's world.

Luke had to spend 3 years between ANH and TESB self-teaching himself to utilize TK. Rey did it instantly in her duel with Ren. Its a hard pill to swallow.


----------



## Fang (Dec 20, 2015)

They retconned that anyway. 

The official change was Padme died because the medics of Pol Massa weren't experienced with humans and medical complications with her childbirth caused her to die due to their inexperience. Which makes more sense then "a broken heart".


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 20, 2015)

Meh, I like the idea of Anakin being the complete cause of his misfortunes. 

Stressing your pregnant wife to death > Human mother? what do?


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 20, 2015)

Anakin killed her 

he made happen his own earlier prophetic dream of her death 

no turning to the Dark side = she gives birth under different circumstances and lives


----------



## Kasuke Sadiki (Dec 20, 2015)

Weiss said:


> Anakin killed her
> 
> he made happen his own earlier prophetic dream of her death
> 
> no turning to the Dark side = she gives birth under different circumstances and lives



Which is usually how this kind of thing works. The prophecy causes the prophecy to come true


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 20, 2015)

Kasuke Sadiki said:


> Yes that was the tipping point, but it wasn't the only reason. If it was he would have turned back as soon as he found out she died.





Do you even Star Wars, bro?


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 20, 2015)

James Bond said:


> Re-watch it, she died from a broken heart not childbirth.



i uh

i didn't say she did die of childbirth

i said the concept of dying in childbirth still being a thing in this future that has such insanely advanced medical technology was absurd


----------



## James Bond (Dec 20, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> i uh
> 
> i didn't say she did die of childbirth
> 
> i said the concept of dying in childbirth still being a thing in this future that has such insanely advanced medical technology was absurd



You implied it then, really not that much different.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 20, 2015)

James Bond said:


> You implied it then, really not that much different.





i didn't imply that either

reading comprehension OP


----------



## KazeYama (Dec 20, 2015)

Fang said:


> Of course that's an issue. She spends most of her life on a desert planet scavenging stuff yet instinctively knows how to fix the Falcon better then Han, its owner, pilot, and ad hoc mechanic. She constantly saves Finn's ass throughout the movie, and she magically gains the Force from simply touching Anakin's lightsaber a day or two earlier on Maz's world.
> 
> Luke had to spend 3 years between ANH and TESB self-teaching himself to utilize TK. Rey did it instantly in her duel with Ren. Its a hard pill to swallow.



She spends her entire life scavenging ships, from x-wings, tie fighters, star destroyers, at-at she knows them all. Plus in the dialogue of the film she knows all the repairs that were done to the falcon. For all we know Unkar Plutt hired her to help fix the falcon and she may have been on board the ship numerous times before actually flying it. From the back story we got it isn't like this is her first time ever seeing the ship and she magically knows where everything is. Same for her knowing all about tech and how to navigate star killer base she spent years in those star destroyers and I imagine even 30 years later a lot of the same imperial tech and layouts remain the same or similar. A mechanic is gonna have a pretty good idea of how to fix something even if the car is brand new or 30 years old the parts, engine, radiator, steering etc have been in the same place for a long time. 

The force and saber stuff is obviously gonna get explained. She has some type of unique power/connection or psychometry. Just by touching the saber and seeing all those memories she may have gained a fraction of the powers or skills from those who previously held it. The force awakening I think is on a larger scale than just Rey as an individual. We see new ways  of the force being used by Kylo and by Rey than we have in any other movie the force as a whole may be more powerful or easier to tap into or in some way more prevalent than in the past. 

That's why I totally disagreed with Max Landis' opinion. He tries to look at the movie in a vacuum instead of as one part of the whole canon.


----------



## Extravlad (Dec 20, 2015)

> anakin turned to the dark side cuz he had a dream that padme would die in childbirth and sheev said the dark side could save her


Anakin turned to the dark side because he was an emotional kid who should never have been trained to become a Jedi.
Really the whole Padme thing is just one of the many ways Palpatine could've made him totally fall to the dark side, if he didn't have those teams he'd still have fallen to it eventually.



Also Rey IS A MARY SUE, it's not even fucking debatable.


----------



## Fang (Dec 20, 2015)

That's not how psychometry works.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 20, 2015)

Max Landis thinks Rey's a Mary Sue, too? I knew I liked that guy.


----------



## KazeYama (Dec 20, 2015)

Fang said:


> That's not how psychometry works.



I'm speculating. The point is people shouldn't rush to label her with a loaded term like mary sue when I've read about 10 different reasons for why she is able to do what she does that all make sense and will likely be revealed in the next movie. 

Seems like a waste of time for people to call her a mary sue the next 18 months and then have to take it back once we actually learn more about her in episode 8.


----------



## Fang (Dec 20, 2015)

Psychometry is sensing the past memories and emotion embedded in an object, device, area, or place. What Rey does is magically gain the ability to utilize telekinesis, Serenity (Jedi meditation) and battle-sense from a single day before just hearing about Jedi and the Force and from physical contact with Anakin's lightsaber.

It doesn't work that way.

She also spends the whole movie being virtually untouchable outside of the one time Ren manages to knock her out.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 20, 2015)

> Seems like a waste of time for people to call her a mary sue the next 18 months and then have to take it back once we actually learn more about her in episode 8.



it's cute that you think anyone is ever gonna take anything back on the internet


----------



## Rukia (Dec 20, 2015)

Shocked by Rey's connection to the force.  She might have more potential than any character we have met in this entire franchise!


----------



## Enclave (Dec 20, 2015)

Rukia said:


> Shocked by Rey's connection to the force.  She might have more potential than any character we have met in this entire franchise!



What do you expect?  She's a Skywalker.

Her potential with the Force is likely equal to that of her father Lukes.

What I find amazing is how many people seem to hate the idea of her being Lukes daughter even though it's painfully obvious that she is.


----------



## Rukia (Dec 20, 2015)

I thought it was odd that Rey comforted Leia when they came back without Han.  That was the first meeting between those two characters!  It would have made a lot more sense for Chewbacca to do the comforting!


----------



## Stunna (Dec 20, 2015)

I noticed that too. I thought it was odd how Chewbacca just walked past Leia without them interacting.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 20, 2015)

i thought it was also odd that rey and leia met for the first time and hugged wordlessly like they actually knew each other


----------



## Rukia (Dec 20, 2015)

Pretty sure everyone in the theatre knew that scene didn't make any sense.  If Rey was unconscious and Finn had brought her back; would he have been the one hugging Leia?


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 20, 2015)

They sensed each other's sadness through the force.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 20, 2015)

Rukia said:


> Pretty sure everyone in the theatre knew that scene didn't make any sense.  If Rey was unconscious and Finn had brought her back; would he have been the one hugging Leia?



finn would've hugged leia and then winked at the camera like 

imma pity tap dis old white bitch later


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 20, 2015)

He already has Rey tho...


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 20, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> He already has Rey tho...



ah, but does he?

did no-one else pick up on the sexual tension between rey and kylo?


----------



## Fang (Dec 20, 2015)

Stunna said:


> I noticed that too. I thought it was odd how Chewbacca just walked past Leia without them interacting.



This is Jar-Jar Abrams you know. He probably thinks Chewie is a pet, not a person.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 20, 2015)

Kylo and Rey?

Ew.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 20, 2015)

cmon stunna, what's a little cousin diddling to a southerner?


----------



## Fang (Dec 20, 2015)

Cousin fucking is more of a West Virginia/Kentucky thing across the mountains from the South.


----------



## Rukia (Dec 20, 2015)

Kylo might have had a thing for Rey.  His offer to teach her was strange.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 20, 2015)

Rukia pls **


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 20, 2015)

Capt. Phasma literally a waste


----------



## Rukia (Dec 20, 2015)

Nothing but friendship vibes between Finn and Rey.  We are talking about two characters that probably have never had any friends before.  So of course they value the friendship.

I actually found the Finn/Poe friendship questionable; I'm not sure it is platonic.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 20, 2015)

What a black guy can't get with a Jedi, Rukia?


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 20, 2015)

The Mad King said:


> Capt. Phasma literally a waste



when we see her in the third act and I noticed the comedic undertones,  i'm like "what the hell?"

The first and third act had almost completely different tones; And it was at the cost of any menacing image the notable characters in the First Order may have had.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 20, 2015)

Rukia said:


> Nothing but friendship vibes between Finn and Rey.  We are talking about two characters that probably have never had any friends before.  So of course they value the friendship.
> 
> I actually found the Finn/Poe friendship questionable; I'm not sure it is platonic.



Rukia pls **


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 20, 2015)

Rukia   pls


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 20, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> when we see her in the third act and I noticed the comedic undertones and i'm like "what the hell?"
> 
> The first and third act had almost completely different tones; And it was at the cost of any menacing image the notable characters in the First Order may have had.


What exactly did Phasma do except look pretty in her fancy armor? 

Jar Jar Abrams manage to promote Feminism and shit on it in the same movie


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 20, 2015)

gesy, real talk, where do you get your avatars from? what's up with the god-awful picture quality? 

take this:


----------



## Stunna (Dec 20, 2015)

Phasma's treatment was just continuing the SW tradition of taking overhyping someone in a badass suit of armor just to embarrass them.


----------



## Seraphiel (Dec 20, 2015)

Stunna said:


> Phasma's treatment was just continuing the SW tradition of taking overhyping someone in a badass suit of armor just to embarrass them.



She was literally made to sell toys


----------



## Fang (Dec 20, 2015)

The Mad King said:


> Jar Jar Abrams manage to promote Feminism and shit on it in the same movie



What the fuck are you talking about?


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 20, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> gesy, real talk, where do you get your avatars from? what's up with the god-awful picture quality?
> 
> take this:



Google/tumblr/imgur


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 20, 2015)

it's because stunna has an understanding of picture resolution and sharpness and stuff like that, i guess


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 20, 2015)

uh, huey, stick to the BvS thread


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 20, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> it's because stunna has an understanding of picture resolution and sharpness and stuff like that, i guess



I have like little to no skill in photoshop, and beggers can't be choosers so..



I take what I can get



Fang said:


> You are literally retarded. How the fuck does that equate to promoting feminism?



Ayy


----------



## Stunna (Dec 20, 2015)

But you got homies who can hook you up.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Dec 20, 2015)

Didn't anyone notice the improvement and menace in the Stormtroopers this time? Lets face it, the OT Stormtroopers were easily defeated jokes. These ones the First Order use are menacing, almost always make their shot, and have powerful melee combatants. If these guys were on Endor the Ewoks and Rebels would have been wiped out in short order.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 20, 2015)

The Mad King said:


> You fucking know that exchange was unnecessary for handing off a gun
> Han gave Finn a blaster and that was it.



That has always been my problem with "strong females", they always have to be vocal about their strength and prowess; but when it comes to guys-- it need not be said.

I understand Abrams wanting to shine light on those he feels are undervalued (women and minorities), but I will agree that it's an unnecessary way of _showing_ she's tough and independent.


----------



## Gunners (Dec 20, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> That has always been my problem with "strong females", they always have to be vocal about their strength and prowess; but when it comes to guys-- it need not be said.
> 
> I understand Abrams wanting to shine light on those he feels are undervalued (women and minorities), but I will agree that it's an unnecessary way of _showing_ she's tough and independent.



To be fair, it is something that happens in real life.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 20, 2015)

I tried to leave small implications that i'm not just talking about fiction.


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 20, 2015)

> *SPOILERS: Another HUGE Cameo In STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS Revealed*
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...






> *SPOILERS: Even More Mind-Blowing STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS Cameos Revealed*
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


----------



## Enclave (Dec 20, 2015)

Yeah, I was going to point out that Yoda was also heard in the lightsaber scene, thus that doesn't suggest that Obi Wan is related to Rey.  Seriously, she's pretty near guaranteed to be Lukes daughter.


----------



## Kasuke Sadiki (Dec 20, 2015)

Rukia said:


> I actually found the Finn/Poe friendship questionable; I'm not sure it is platonic.



Well considering how much borrowing JJ did from A New Hope and in terms of their character archetypes:

Rey = Luke
Finn = Solo
Poe = Leia

You know what that means


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## Enclave (Dec 20, 2015)

Kasuke Sadiki said:


> Well considering how much borrowing JJ did from A New Hope and in terms of their character archetypes:
> 
> Rey = Luke
> Finn = Solo
> ...



Except Poe is far more like Luke than Leia.


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## Kasuke Sadiki (Dec 20, 2015)

I'm not talking in terms of personality. But in their position in the story.

Poe is the person already involved in the conflict who is on a mission to try and collect some secret piece of information vital to the war.

Finn is the outsider with a shady past who's reluctant to actually join the fight but eventually discovers the hero within.

Rey is the normal one growing up on a dessert planet who seemingly by chance just happens to be thrown into the conflict but then realizes her true destiny.


----------



## Fang (Dec 20, 2015)

Enclave said:


> Except Poe is far more like Luke than Leia.



Not really seeing any connection between Luke or Poe besides Luke being a former Rogue Squadron/Red Squadron X-Wing pilot and squadron leader.


----------



## Enclave (Dec 20, 2015)

Fang said:


> Not really seeing any connection between Luke or Poe besides Luke being a former Rogue Squadron/Red Squadron X-Wing pilot and squadron leader.



There's the comparison you just made there, there's both being excellent pilots and also excellent dog fighters.

Perhaps if Poe was in the movie more we'd have more comparisons to make.  He really didn't give off any kind of Leia vibe though.


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## Fang (Dec 20, 2015)




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## Karasu (Dec 20, 2015)

I wanted to like it, but didn't really care for it. Honestly, I would punch JJ in the dick if I could because he blew a perfectly good opportunity to make something spectacular, especially with all the special effects available to him, for...this? Frustrating. 

It had moments, but too far and few between to make it anything I really enjoyed. I think I'll stick to well received novels for this franchise from this point forward. Want to see Luke though.


----------



## Karasu (Dec 20, 2015)

Thanks for posting this. I was about to lose my damn mind after seeing the seemingly endless positive bullshit praise posted on the review sites.


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 20, 2015)

Black Sun said:


> I wanted to like it, but didn't really care for it. Honestly, I would punch JJ in the dick if I could because he blew a perfectly good opportunity to make something spectacular, especially with all the special effects available to him, for...this? Frustrating.
> 
> It had moments, but too far and few between to make it anything I really enjoyed. I think I'll stick to well received novels for this franchise from this point forward. Want to see Luke though.



I kinda feel the same

There were times when I was honestly bored by what I was seeing. I felt it ended strong tho.


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## Fang (Dec 20, 2015)

>urban dictionary


----------



## Fang (Dec 20, 2015)

Like pottery


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## Fang (Dec 20, 2015)

Pure pottery


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## Clowe (Dec 20, 2015)

Just saw the movie... it was ok, I'll give it a 6, maybe a 6.5,, yes, I have issues with the film, honestly I feel like writing a mini rant, is it ok to talk spoilers here or what? I heven't keep up with this thread at all so I'm not sure.


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## Mider T (Dec 20, 2015)

Are people giving it 7s trying to be funny?


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 20, 2015)

Clowe said:


> Just saw the movie... it was ok, I'll give it a 6, maybe a 6.5,, yes, I have issues with the film, honestly I feel like writing a mini rant, is it ok to talk spoilers here or what? I heven't keep up with this thread at all so I'm not sure.



You can tag them if you're feeling considerate, but it's fine speak freely.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Dec 21, 2015)

Black Sun said:


> Thanks for posting this. I was about to lost my damn mind after seeing the seemingly endless positive bullshit praise posted on the review sites.


Translation: FINALLY someone agrees with MY opinion! Everyone else can suck it!


----------



## Clowe (Dec 21, 2015)

Alright, here I go, these are some issues I have with the film off the top of my head right now.


*Spoiler*: __ 



*Structurally, way to similar to Episode IV:*

Or should I say, this is basically a new new hope. this is the greatest sin this movie commits, people like to shit on the prequels a lot, but you know what? at least Lucas tried to do something different, he tried to tread new ground and not do the same thing twice. this is a problem TFA has, it doesn't tread new ground, it doesn't do anything new, it's a rehash of ANH with better effects, it has the same character archetypes, the same plot structure, Episode IV is a great movie, one I can watch it whenever I want, I don't need to see the same thing twice again on screen thank you very much, It's like, the prequels were criticised so much, and got so much hate for so long (unwarranted IMO, but that's another story), that they tried really hard to appease original trilogy fans by moving in their confort zone, in what they think will appeal to them, well with me they failed, I love the original trilogy as much as the next guy, but imitating them is not the right course of action, you have to tread new ground, try out new things, while respecting what was before. At one point in the film, when the resistance is making plans to destroy the new super weapon that destroys systems, Poe jokes by calling it the super death star, yes they actually call it that, it was supposed to be funny but I found it really sad. 





*Spoiler*: __ 



*Kylo Ren is shitty:*

I had high hopes for this guy, but he ended up being a Dooku tier villain, now this is a new trilogy, there's still time for his character to grow, furthermore, his backstory and reasonings are not entirely clear, we get some for sure, but not everything, so I'm basing this critic on what I saw and what I know of him.

So this guy is basically a bad Darth Vader clone, or at least he wants to be, that's pretty much his character, he wants to be like Vader, he wants to follow in his footsteps, but he fails massively, and this is actually part of the story, of his character, the fact that he doesn't live up to Vader's legacy, that is what he fears, now I wouldn't have a problem with this if he wasn't so... incompetent, it's one thing not to live up to the hype, I'm not asking him to, but it's another thing to just be so terrible at your job, at one pint in the film Finn has a fight with a random Stormtrooper with some kind of Melee weapon while he wields a lightsaber, this stormtrooper defeats Finn fairly quickly and without breaking a sweat, further in the movie Ren also fights Finn, and while he also defeats him fairly quickly, he actually gets hurt by the guy, this shouldn't be the case, but it is, and then he later gets defeated by someone who has never wielded a lightsaber before... my goodness, now to be fair, Ren doesn't to appear to be a full fledged Sith, at least not yet, he's just a darkside user, but come ooon, are you fucking kidding me? at least he actually had SOME training. The era where stormtroopers are considered incompetent is long past, now the main villains are.

I also think the character was miscast, I tought the actor was trying way to hard to keep his teary eyes at all times while unmasked, and it just didn't convince me, his performance didn't convince me. I'm hesitant to say this, as I hate to be that guy but... he's a big whiny emo bitch, as bad as Anakin in Episode II, but hey, at least Anakin could actually fight, actually i may have insulted Dooku when i said Dooku tier, since Dooku also knows how to fight, he's Grievous tier. On the plus side, I liked his design, he looks fairly cool and I specially like his mask. I feel he does have some potential under all the shit though, hopefully they improve him in the sequels. 





*Spoiler*: __ 



*Rey's powers development:*

First of all, I'd like to say I liked the character of Rey herself, there's nothing wrong with her character per se other than being an extreme Mary sue, so much so that it was kind of over the top (Great pilot, great mechanic, great fighter, kind, smart, understanding, powerful with the force, fast learner, HOLY SHIT, is there anything she can't do?)  and for the super rushed development of her abilities in the force.

Now, her backstory and lineage is not clear, but she's strong in the Force, enough to match Ren at least, the problem is that being strong in the Force itself doesn't make you an immediate prodigy, Luke was the son of Anakin Skywalker, one of the strongest force users of all time, but this wasn't enough for him to be levitating rocks in Tatooine, he had to be trained and taught in the ways of the Force by Obi Wan and later Yoda for him to effectively use his abilities, he didn't magically acquire the necessary knowledge to do this just from touching his father's lightsaber, but that's exactly what happens with Rey, he touches Luke first lightsaber, the one he lost in ESB, and it all just comes for her, ten minutes later, she's already performing Mind Trick on a stormtrooper, that's right, the first thing she does with the force is Mind trick, with no previous training whatsoever, she just does it, I'm sorry but no, NO, GTFO, that is bullshit, that is bullshit from the deepest reaches of Abram's 'and Kasdan's anuses, it doesn't work like that, the force doesn't work like that, I would have been ok with levitating small things, which she does, but is going too far, and if you tought that was bad... she defeats a trained lightsaber duelist the first time she picks up one, I'm sorry but what? more bullshit, the force doesn't magically teach you how to wield a lightsaber either. even if she had experience with melee weapons, a lightsaber is not a stick, it's the weapon of a Jedi Knight, they actually expect me to believe she won just because Ren was wounded? even if he was wounded and tired that was too much, other than that, I enjoyed everything else about her. It feels like they were trying to hard to establish her as a ''_strong female character_'' they way the public likes it nowadays, and I don't have a problem with that, there should be strong female characters, but they went overboard too quickly, I said before they should try new things, but they should try new things while respecting the rules of a universe that is already established, not rewrite the rules for the sake of your plot. 




There's more, but I'll leave it at that for now.

Now on the plus side, I enjoyed the new characters, Poe, and Finn, yep, I did like Finn actually, I loved seeing the classic characters again, Han, Chewie and Leia  once again, seeing them interact with the new faces, what they been up to, furthermore, I think they did a good job of balancing the new guys with the old ones, so props for that.  liked seeing the Millenium Falcon take flight once again, the visual effects were great of course, as expected, some of the air battles were really thrilling, the movies definitely poked at my nostalgia with that, not gonna lie and it worked... partially. Overall, they went for the safest possible thing they could think of. 

I may had been too harsh with it though, I'll give it a 6.5, I did enjoy it despite my gripes.


----------



## Mikaveli (Dec 21, 2015)

Just saw it. Overall I liked it, but I have gripes I'll expand on later. Mostly 

-Finn's character

-Rey being the typical Star Wars mary sue protagonist 

-obvs this is basically a new hope

There's plenty of good, but they were just so safe.


----------



## tari101190 (Dec 21, 2015)

I hope Rey is a Kenobi, not a Skywalker


----------



## Gilgamesh (Dec 21, 2015)

All the masses praising this film would be tearing it apart if Lucas made it.


----------



## ShadowReij (Dec 21, 2015)

Saw it last night.

It was good.

I can't picture fans of the original 3 taking to it too well, but compared to the start of the Anakin saga, this is much better (take it as you will)

I like the movie more for what's different than what felt ultimately like rehashing for nostalgia to reassure fans it's still Star Wars by scratching off a Star Wars checklist. There is one scene in particular that felt like straight copy paste from the originals that had me going, "really?"

Fin's character is a breathe of fresh air compared to how most characters are with the exception of Han (even if his reasons for joining the conflict are kind of bs but fuck it), and is a direct indicator that someone new is at the helm for the series and while Rei (Rey?) certainly doesn't break the mold you'll like her for what she can do. (Think gohan of dbz prior to Buu without the anger issues).

Hopefully with this relatively safe departure point Abrams can provide more of something new/different for Star Wars and less nostalgia back tracking.


----------



## James Bond (Dec 21, 2015)

I guess I am uncool because I thoroughly enjoyed the film, similarities or not it helped to remind myself of what made the original Star Wars films so great to watch.


----------



## Detective (Dec 21, 2015)

James Bond said:


> I guess I am uncool because I thoroughly enjoyed the film, similarities or not it helped to remind myself of what made the original Star Wars films so great to watch.



Your sense of taste has been shaken, and stirred, old friend.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 21, 2015)

James Bond said:


> I guess I am uncool because I thoroughly enjoyed the film, similarities or not it helped to remind myself of what made the original Star Wars films so great to watch.



where are you getting the whole i guess im uncool thing from

basically the only people ragging on it are retards who think the prequels were good movies or retards who are mad about there being a black dude in it

there are legit criticisms to be made of this movie but it's by no means bad overall. it's decent at worst


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 21, 2015)

The main criticism for it is that it reminds me too much of a new hope. In that aspect of it it really doesn't stand on its own.


----------



## James Bond (Dec 21, 2015)

Detective said:


> Your sense of taste has been shaken, and stirred, old friend.



It's not like I am saying I liked Kingdom of the Crystal Skull or something 



Lucaniel said:


> where are you getting the whole i guess im uncool thing from
> 
> basically the only people ragging on it are retards who think the prequels were good movies or retards who are mad about there being a black dude in it
> 
> there are legit criticisms to be made of this movie but it's by no means bad overall. it's decent at worst



Good, use your aggressive feelings... Let the hate flow through you.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 21, 2015)

aight


----------



## Hidd3N_NiN (Dec 21, 2015)

Saw the film yesterday and really enjoyed it. It felt like a fun swash-buckling space adventure like the Original Trilogy. It had some really funny moments too. 

*Spoiler*: __ 



 I really liked when Kylo Ren was raging and slashing away at the computers and the 2 Stormtroopers walking in on the commotion just turned around and Noped it out of there.




Rey and Finn are great main characters too, they felt really fun and lively especially after seeing how boring and flat most of the Prequel Trilogy characters were (exceptions being Obi-Wan). Poe was cool too unfortunately he didn't get much screentime. Him and Finn had instant chemistry together within seconds of meeting each other. I liked how they approached Kylo Ren. I know people were all disappointed because they wanted Kylo Ren to be some badass Darth Vader like character but he turned out to be a Darth Vader wannabe but I think that was a great approach to him. You just can't live up to Darth Vader and the movie acknowledged that with Kylo Ren.


*Spoiler*: __ 



He's an insecure ragey young adult who got reallly cocky since he's the only Force User running around in the Galaxy so its really satisfying to see him get totally humiliated after Rey awakens her Force abilities. And for people who complain that its ridiculous that he got bested by an untrained Force user (Rey). First of all, he was injured by Chewbacca's Bowcaster. Also he was the only Force user walking around for so many years, he's obviously not fully-trained in Lightsaber usage (as mentioned by Snoke and hy his crackling unstable Lightsaber) and also rusty because he's never faced anyone in Lightsaber combat before. Thirdly he wasn't trying to kill Rey because he was trying to recruit her initially also don't forget Rey was running away for most of the fight until the end when she surprises him.



 I'm interested to see how he'll develop in the next movie.

The Lightsaber fight was great too. None of the spinning over-choreographed light show fights of the Prequels. The fight felt so raw and intense and full of emotion which is what the prequels lacked.

Obviously the movie has flaws which others have pointed out. It is wayyyyyyy too derivative of A New Hope. The story beats are nearly exactly the same beat for beat from ANH. I can only hope that now that they have successfully rebooted the franchise, they take more risks and bring us something new for Episode 8 and not "Star Trek: Into Darkness" the next one.

I was also kind of disappointed with the music. It felt very samey and pushed to the background. There were no iconic themes like Imperial March or Duel of the Fates. This is especially strange because the trailer music was great. The piano tones at the beginning was new for Star Wars and the more rest of the old themes redone was really good and then the actual movie comes with some really uninspired music.

The last thing I didn't like about the film was really the lack of explanation of what had happened since the end of the Return of the Jedi. There was no real explanation of what the First Order is, who the Resistance are and what are they resisting or anything about the New Republic. Now they don't need the boring trade dispute/Senate discussions of the Prequels but I think they could have used like 5 minutes to establish what has happened to the galaxy since the end of ROTJ and why the First Order is here and why the Resistance are fighting them.

The film made good on its promise to have a return emphasis on practical effects which is a good thing but its kind of funny that the 2 CGI characters in the film, Maz Kanata and Snoke stand out so much now in such a jarring way because there's so few CGI creatures running around. (Actually make that none, really the only CGI creatures I noticed was Snoke and Maz Kanata). I'm eagerly awaiting the day they reveal Snoke and it turns out he's like a tiny little alien who just use the hologram to make himself look big. 

Also, I found it hilarious that the fans hyped up Captain Phasma so much and she's in the film for less than 5 minutes and now these people are whining that the movie misled them into thinking Phasma was going to have a huge role and being a badass and all that even though all the trailers showed was her walking around menacingly and never indicated at any point she was a major player of any sort.

Overall despite the flaws, I enjoyed the movie a lot and look forward to the sequels. Lets hope they don't screw them up.


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## Detective (Dec 21, 2015)

BTW, who put my review in spoilers? Stunna himself mentioned that entering this thread was at the user's own risk, and tags were not mandatory.



EDIT: It was done to Luc, too. Somehow I suspect Darth Stunnarus going back on his words


----------



## Stunna (Dec 21, 2015)

I tagged your post because it was obnoxious to look at


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## Detective (Dec 21, 2015)

Stunna said:


> I tagged your post because it was obnoxious to look at



Will you be tagging all your posts then? That's a lot of editing to do.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 21, 2015)

> *BOX OFFICE: STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS Breaks US Record And Hits $500M WW*
> 
> Just 24 hours after we told you about Star Wars: The Force Awakens hitting $250 million worldwide, it has now grossed an incredible $517 million. That's thanks to a $279 million debut internationally, and an estimated $238 million opening weekend in North America (however, it's believed that the movie will go even higher than that; we'll have the final numbers tomorrow). Now, it's worth noting that the movie has fallen short of Jurassic World's $525 million worldwide debut, but there are two factors to take into account. Firstly, Star Wars: The Force Awakens might still break that records, and secondly, Jurassic World was released in China from the very start of its run, giving the movie an additional $96 million as a result. This one however has reached $517 million WITHOUT China.
> 
> IMAX are also reporting a new record thanks to a $48 million haul on their giant size screens, and almost countless countries have new opening weekend records thanks to Star Wars: The Force Awakens (among them are the UK, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Russia, and Australia). Disney Studios Chairman Alan Horn has actually released a statement today to thank Star Wars fans for making the movie such a hit: _"To all of the fans around the world who not only came out in Force to make this such an exciting and astronomical debut, but who treated this film as their own and helped preserve the experience for their fellow fans by not spoiling it ? thank you, we do."_






> *BOX OFFICE: STAR WARS: TFA Takes Record For Highest Worldwide Opening Ever*
> 
> Yesterday we told you that Star Wars: The Force Awakens had grossed $279 million internationally and an estimated $238 million in North America. That gave it a worldwide total of $517 million, a figure which means it fell short of the record held by Jurassic World and its $525 million debut. The key difference there was that Jurassic World opened in China at the same time as the rest of the world, whereas Star Wars: The Force Awakens doesn't hit the Middle Kingdom until next month.
> 
> That makes the fact that the J.J. Abrams helmed release has now topped that even more impressive. It's done so thanks to an incredible $247 million haul in North America, $9 million more than yesterday's estimation. With that international figure now revised to $281 million, Star Wars: The Force Awakens has roughly $528 million worldwide. It dipped only 11% from Saturday to Sunday for $61 million, and it's on track to smash Jurassic World's record of being the quickest to reach $300 million by doing so in 5.5. days instead of 8.5 days! That's pretty damn amazing, eh?





> *Find Out Which New STAR WARS: TFA Character Was Originally Supposed To Be Killed Off*
> 
> Obviously if you still haven't seen Star Wars: The Force Awakens (what the heck is the matter with you?), there are big *SPOILERS* ahead.
> 
> ...




[YOUTUBE]o3QPN0sSFLw[/YOUTUBE]



Enclave said:


> Yeah, I was going to point out that Yoda was also heard in the lightsaber scene, thus that doesn't suggest that Obi Wan is related to Rey.  Seriously, she's pretty near guaranteed to be Lukes daughter.



I actually didn't catch any of their voices at all so these for me are news.


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## Tony Lou (Dec 21, 2015)

It still is possible to explain Rey matching Kylo Ren in swordsmanship because he was injured and her experience with that stick should help a little.

But her use of the Force ? lol man, it pretty much went like this:

"Hagrid: Yer a wizard, Harry.

Harry Potter: HOLY S***, you're right!!

(Proceeds to kill his uncle with Avada Kedavra and then teleports to Hogwarts)"

Didn't Luke and Anakin need to learn how to use their Force related abilities? Honestly, if I were writing the plot, I would've put it like this: "The Force is strong in Rey. With proper training, she can become a great Jedi. 

And then the fight between Kylo Ren and these total rookies would've ended with Finn defeated and Rey struggling a lot against him, until she turns the tide in the last minute with a tactical move.

I may even accept an accidental display of her powers, like Rey Force pushing Kylo and reacting like" How did I do that??". But suddenly knowing how to do it just by watching? 

C'mon, that's too forced, if you'll forgive the pun.


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 21, 2015)

I'm not even going to accept the wound as an excuse.

Since he seemed pretty efficient (both in mobility and strength) against Finn and he was actually beating on it to convert his pain into anger. Sure, the wound means he wasn't at his best, I'm just saying it wasn't to an amount significant enough to lose to Rey (logically).


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## Kasuke Sadiki (Dec 21, 2015)

I hear that Rey is seriously nerfed in the upcoming patch due to "balance issues"


----------



## Pocalypse (Dec 21, 2015)

Rey doesn't need to be nerfed in the next films, just make Kylo stronger than her, simple. He's going to be trained anyway but "nerfing" her seems dumb because it implies she's the stronger one but has to be dumbed down because reasons. I'd rather have Kylo be legit stronger than her which forces her to get even stronger.


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## Bluebeard (Dec 21, 2015)

Maybe the rest of the Knights of Ren will interrupt her training which leads Finn on a mission to save her.


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## Tony Lou (Dec 21, 2015)

The answer isn't nerfing. It is to make training actually relevant again.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 21, 2015)

I mean

Kylo _is_ stronger

for now


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 21, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> I'm not even going to accept the wound as an excuse.
> *
> Since he seemed pretty efficient (both in mobility and strength) against Finn *and he was actually beating on it to convert his pain into anger. Sure, the wound means he wasn't at his best, I'm just saying it wasn't to an amount significant enough to lose to Rey (logically).



that just implies a hampered ren is still better than finn


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 21, 2015)

If the other members of the Knights of Ren show up then it might also take Luke to fight them all.


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## Fang (Dec 21, 2015)

Unless they are non Force-Users and just a fancy band of bodyguards for Ren, who knows.


----------



## Bubyrd Ratcatcher (Dec 21, 2015)

Given the direction of this movie, i won't be surprised if the Knights of Ren end up being as a mixture of the Ginyu Force and Team Taka.


----------



## KazeYama (Dec 21, 2015)

Seen it 3 times now lol. One thing that could justify Rey suddenly becoming so powerful with the force is that when she and Kylo were reading each others minds she could have gained a bunch of knowledge about the force by subconsciously downloading his mind. I mean if it was a constant two way street while he was searching her mind for the map who knows what she managed to learn in that time. 

Totally plausible she learned about mind tricks and some basic saber forms during that time. Also the training for Jedi is mostly about getting the right state of mind. The reason why most Jedi need years of training is cause if you just leave them to use the force on their own they will end up going to the dark side without learning the proper restraint and mindset of the jedi. 

In ESB Yoda thinks Luke could have lifted the X-wing after only that short time in training all he had to do was believe. I think Rey has the advantage of being naturally pure and she definitely believes and knows the power of the force where she is running out of fear of that much power rather than because she doesn't believe it.  I mean comparing it to other series she could be like a force Jean Grey where she has to focus to keep her powers in check rather than focus to use her powers at all. 

Also like in avatar when the shit hits the fan Aang would go into the Avatar state, but he had to train still to learn how to use the different elements and use avatar state at will. 

Another thing is that if Rey really is a "second coming" of a child born of the force like Anakin her mom could be anyone and she could have been adopted by Luke without being his actual daughter. Star Wars borrow from eastern and western philosophies equally so what if the prophecy of the chosen one  wasn't actually based on judeo christian themes but more on that of hinduism/buddhism or the dalai lama of the force.


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## Fang (Dec 21, 2015)

Luke had 3 years of self-tutoring in the Force between ANH and TESB before he could utilize TK.

Rey had less then a full day between interacting with Maz and fighting Ren.


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## Gunners (Dec 21, 2015)

Some people are quicker studies.


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## Fang (Dec 21, 2015)

Yeah sure sure whatever you say


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## Grimmjowsensei (Dec 21, 2015)

I think the whole Kylo and Rey bout should have gone like this : 

Kylo would just oneshot Finn. Then proceed to fight Rey without putting any real effort into it(at the same time the severity of his wound would be emphasized), Rey would do some cool shit by sheer luck and make Kylo go Byakuya when he was fighting Ichigo on the bridge, then get serious and shit on her and just as he is about to finish her the death laser explosion tears the landscape apart and saves Rey. Rey goes to a training arc to match him in the upcoming film.

But now, Kylo will have to go to a training arc to match Rei. 


What the fuck were they thinking ?


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## Gunners (Dec 21, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> I think the whole Kylo and Rey bout should have gone like this :
> 
> Kylo would just oneshot Finn. Then proceed to fight Rey without putting any real effort into it(at the same time the severity of his wound would be emphasized), *Rey would do some cool shit by sheer luck and make Kylo go Byakuya when he was fighting Ichigo on the bridge, then get serious and shit on her and just as he is about to finish her the death laser explosion tears the landscape apart and saves Rey.* Rey goes to a training arc to match him in the upcoming film.
> 
> ...


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## Stunna (Dec 21, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> But now, Kylo will have to go to a training arc to match ReiRey.


Not really sure how you come to this conclusion.

It's emphasized that Rey's victory was because Ren was both physically and emotionally compromised; plus she had some plot-induced Force related help. It's pretty obvious that in any other situation that Ren would have handily won.

Both characters are about to undergo training, but it'll be Rey that will catch up with Ren; not the other way around.


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 21, 2015)

I kinda wanted Fin to be force sensitive at the very lease to justify why him out of all the other troopers suddenly gain a change of heart when it was said that's all he knew to do since he was a kid.


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## KazeYama (Dec 21, 2015)

The Mad King said:


> I kinda wanted Fin to be force sensitive at the very lease to justify why him out of all the other troopers suddenly gain a change of heart when it was said that's all he knew to do since he was a kid.



I'm 100% convinced he has hidden force powers. Obviously not on Rey level but he has some sort of force ability. When the star killer fires he hears the voices and cries of the people dying. He is with the two pirates loading the ship when he hears this. He is too far from the castle for the voices to be those people and when they do cut to the reaction of the castle everyone is silent and then Finn runs in and tells them what is happening. 

I know everyone wants to see Luke train Rey but I wouldn't mind if Ep.8 skips 2-3 years and we get to see fully trained Rey and fully trained Kylo face off and the film could instead focus on Finn reuniting with Rey and discovering his own force powers.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 21, 2015)

You need to be FS to have a change of heart?

How would that justify what occurred?(not that I think it needs justification, just going by your logic.)


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Dec 21, 2015)

Stunna said:


> Not really sure how you come to this conclusion.
> 
> It's emphasized that Rey's victory was because Ren was both physically and emotionally compromised; plus she had some plot-induced Force related help. It's pretty obvious that in any other situation that Ren would have handily won.
> 
> Both characters are about to undergo training, but it'll be Rey that will catch up with Ren; not the other way around.



Circumstances may have helped Rey, but she won in the end. Kylo looked like the underdog because he was up against a Novice fighter and ended up losing.

Its the opposite of what usually happens in animes. Villain is superior, and the inferior protagonist suffers a defeat and that gives him / her the motivation to get better and defeat the villain. Thats the journey that the audience to see. We want to have something to look forward to.
Right now, I am not even remotely interested in another bout between these two people. Because there is no point. The good guy already won.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 21, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> You need to be FS to have a change of heart?
> 
> How would that justify what occurred?(not that I think it needs justification, just going by your logic.)



He was program and grew up to be a trooper.  His change of heart happen when they killed a trooper next to him. Come on Gesy either you give us a really ridiculous reason why this happen otherwise you're just pulling shit out your ass just for plot.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 21, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Circumstances may have helped Rey, but she won in the end. Kylo looked like the underdog because he was up against a Novice fighter and ended up losing.


You can't just ignore the context and look at it like Rey is the superior warrior. We both know for a fact that she isn't.



> Its the opposite of what usually happens in animes. Villain is superior, and the inferior protagonist suffers a defeat and that gives him / her the motivation to get better and defeat the villain. Thats the journey that the audience to see. We want to have something to look forward to.


You're looking at the series like Kylo Ren is the main villain that needs to be defeated in order for the heroes to win. He's merely a pawn. What the audience wants to see is the defeat of _Snoke and the First Order_. The movie has established that Kylo Ren himself is still incomplete in his training, and has a while to go before reaching his full potential. Instead of the hero being motivated in this case, it's the villain. His path is obviously being set up.

It seems like you don't like this on the basis that it's not the traditional structure.



> Right now, I am not even remotely interested in another bout between these two people. Because there is no point. The good guy already won.


Again, you're not looking at what happened in context. The story is _not_ about Rey defeating Kylo Ren.

And if you're disinterested in a rematch _purely_ because the former defeated the latter in a heavily handicapped state, well, that's your problem.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 21, 2015)

Did anyone catch the wounds that kylo suffered from that fight?

the dim lighting and shaky cam made portions of the scene hard to make out.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 21, 2015)

He got swipe in the face and got minor burns


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 21, 2015)

So I didn't miss the lost of an arm?

ok, just making sure


----------



## Kasuke Sadiki (Dec 21, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> So I didn't miss the lost of an arm?
> 
> ok, just making sure



Finn caught him in the shoulder but it didn't look like a particularly deep wound


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 21, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> Did anyone catch the wounds that kylo suffered from that fight?
> 
> the dim lighting and shaky cam made portions of the scene hard to make out.



Yes it was hard to see how he got injured in some parts of the fight. Besides the parts where Rey stung him with her lightsaber.


----------



## Gunners (Dec 21, 2015)

The lightsabers seem to be less lethal.


----------



## Fang (Dec 21, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> Did anyone catch the wounds that kylo suffered from that fight?
> 
> the dim lighting and shaky cam made portions of the scene hard to make out.



Finn got a shallow cut on Ren's shoulder or arm, it was difficult to tell really with the lightning and angle of the camera. I did think for a moment that maybe Rey had cut off Ren's hand before it panned to reveal she just cut his saber apart like Dooku did to Anakin's second one in AoTC.


----------



## Wan (Dec 21, 2015)

Fang said:


> Luke had 3 years of self-tutoring in the Force between ANH and TESB before he could utilize TK.
> 
> Rey had less then a full day between interacting with Maz and fighting Ren.



In the context of the movies he still does it without having any reason to think it's even a thing he can do.  Kind of like Rey.  A little more space within the movie would have been nice, though.

Anyways, some thoughts on the movie after seeing it twice (so far).

--Good first act, second act dragged a little but was still decent, mind-blowing third act.  I was on the edge of my seat in a way I've rarely been for any movie.

--Really love Rey and Finn.  Their actors are perfect for the role.  Han, Chewie, and Leia are also used really well in the movie.  Best acting in a Star Wars movie, ever.  Poe Dameron is great too, and BB-8 is the best.

--Great nostalgia nods with the Falcon, old characters, etc., without getting too much.

Spoilers:


*Spoiler*: __ 



--A little too fast paced for its own good.  They leave Jakku -- suddenly Han Solo!  Suddenly guys Han owes money to!  Suddenly they're landing on a planet!  Suddenly the First Order is there, and then the Resistance!  The sequences of events in the script needed a bit more room to breathe.

--Shook my head a little when the characters could see the planets Starkiller Base destroyed, despite them being in a whole other system.  It was Spock watching the destruction of Vulcan all over again.  It wouldn't be a huge deal for me, but the whole scene kind of lacked context and dramatic weight for me beyond that.  It was no destruction of Alderaan.

--Overall Starkiller Base was the most pointless part of the movie.  All the parts of the movie I really liked could have happened without it.  Its sole purpose was to ape the Death Star, but it's never going to be remembered like the Death Star is.

--Kylo Ren...it'll take some time to process my thoughts on him.  I definitely think he's an interesting character and an interesting villain.  He is kind of angsty, but I think they're setting him up as a tragic character who is going to get some kind of redemption arc.  It's also interesting how they're setting him up as a rival who has his own growing to do along with our heroes. I want to know just how Snoke turned him to the Dark Side.

--I called Kylo Ren killing Han a few minutes before that scene on the bridge started.  I'm not disappointed in that being predictable though, I think knowing where the scene was going added to the tension and dread to the scene.  And man, the tension in that scene was incredible, thanks to the sense of pathos Han and Leia's conversations earlier in the movie had.

--I don't know what to think of Rei continually showing aptitude with the Force as the movie went on.  That also needs some time to process.  As that kept happening, though, a thought occurred to me:  In the trailers, it had always been shown that it was Finn who faced off with Kylo Ren.  But wouldn't it be cool if it was Rei who fought Kylo Ren?  So when Finn did face Ren, was quickly overpowered, and then Rei pulled the lightsaber to her with the Force, I f**king cheered.

--That fight, man.  The tension was off the charts.

--Rei finding Luke as the very last scene of the movie...needs more time to process!




So, my inital impressions are that I was thoroughly thrilled and even moved by the movie, and I have no _huge_ complaints.  Some things do still need to process though.  Definitely better than the prequels, I'll say that.  The crazy thing is that I went to see it with my brother and he hated it because of Kylo Ren (which, again, is something that needs to process).  He was so turned off by Ren that he thinks Phantom Menace was better.  We just watched Phantom Menace tonight, and...no, just no.  (we watched the Original Trilogy leading up to the movie).

One of the most inane complaints about the movie I've seen is that it's "too much like A New Hope".  No s**t it's like A New Hope.  What, do you think people spent over $100,000,000 on ticket presales to see something that was hardly anything like the original trilogy?


----------



## Kasuke Sadiki (Dec 21, 2015)

Someone better lose a hand in Episode 8


----------



## Hidd3N_NiN (Dec 21, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> I think the whole Kylo and Rey bout should have gone like this :
> 
> Kylo would just oneshot Finn. Then proceed to fight Rey without putting any real effort into it(at the same time the severity of his wound would be emphasized), Rey would do some cool shit by sheer luck and make Kylo go Byakuya when he was fighting Ichigo on the bridge, then get serious and shit on her and just as he is about to finish her the death laser explosion tears the landscape apart and saves Rey. Rey goes to a training arc to match him in the upcoming film.
> 
> ...



The problem with this is like you're trying to link it too much like a shounen battle manga when its not. Secondly you're treating Kylo Ren like he's the final boss of a manga when he's obviously being set up more like Zuko from Avatar. He's conflicted between light and dark and is only some what stronger than the protagonist. The fact that he's going to be training in the next film just like Rey means the story is going to set them up as equals by the time of their next confrontation. Kylo Ren may even be redeemed by the end of the story like Zuko.


----------



## Fang (Dec 21, 2015)

Wan said:


> In the context of the movies he still does it without having any reason to think it's even a thing he can do.



>except for Obi-Wan Kenobi telling him to do so at the last minute
>equating this as being the same as what Rey does

Nope.


----------



## Wan (Dec 21, 2015)

Fang said:


> >except for Obi-Wan Kenobi telling him to do so at the last minute
> >equating this as being the same as what Rey does
> 
> Nope.



You mean Luke hearing Obi-Wan telling him to "use the Force" with no context on just _what_ that's supposed to do?  That sounds like Rey getting the idea to draw on the Force just from Ren mentioning it.


----------



## soulnova (Dec 21, 2015)

I have looked everywhere and I still have to find Rey toys for my niece for Christmas. There's only Finn and Kylo. Godfuckingdammit. щ(ಠ益ಠщ)


----------



## Psychic (Dec 21, 2015)

Great movie, saw it on Saturday. 10/10. So many questions. I love the one liners that Han Solo did, he's still got it. Rey is super cute, and reminds me of Ponyo for some reason. I think Rey and Finn makes a good match, they definitely have chemistry there. Movie was fun and full of action, can't wait until the next episode. My fav. character is BB-8!!! I want a rolly polly robot like that sooooo bad!!! He's feisty and insanely cuuuuuute.



*Spoiler*: __ 



OMG. Darth Plageuis is Snoke, isn't he? He's still alive?!!! I can feel it, it's like the force is calling towards my inner psychic powers or something.

Question : Anyone notice something odd....Rey and Ren....Luke and Leia......siblings perhaps???? Because siblings names always start with the same letter. And Ren's feelings towards Hans like the father she never had.


----------



## Mikaveli (Dec 21, 2015)

If Rey was a Solo, why wouldn't they mention it? I don't think they're dicks of that magnitude 

She's either Luke's daughter or a random. I saw someone mention she could be a Kenobi, which would be way more interesting imo than the Skywalker suck off fest we seem to be doomed for.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 21, 2015)

Yeah, there's zero chance Rey's a Solo/Organa. Their wasn't even a _hint_ of that behind her interactions with Han and Leia.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 21, 2015)

lol that would be hilarious though

Han and Leia's kids being scattered across the galaxy like that.


----------



## Kasuke Sadiki (Dec 22, 2015)

Stunna said:


> Yeah, there's zero chance Rey's a Solo/Organa. Their wasn't even a _hint_ of that behind her interactions with Han and Leia.





~Gesy~ said:


> lol that would be hilarious though
> 
> Han and Leia's kids being scattered across the galaxy like that.



What if she's a Solo but NOT an Organa?


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 22, 2015)

soulnova said:


> I have looked everywhere and I still have to find Rey toys for my niece for Christmas. There's only Finn and Kylo. Godfuckingdammit. щ(ಠ益ಠщ)



I don't live in the states so I'm not gonna be of much help of where you can find one, but this one here is an example of what you could try to get her if you do:


*Spoiler*: _Under spoilers just in case for others that haven't seen the movie yet, I rather be careful_


----------



## Bishamon (Dec 22, 2015)

Man I sure hope my eyes deceiving me because I see people say that _any _of the piece of shit prequels are better than this film?

I mean it's not perfect even without taking into account that it's clearly incomplete and you won't be able to look at the big picture until the other two movies are out, but...


----------



## strongarm85 (Dec 22, 2015)

So apparently Snoke's Theme, and the music playing in the Opera scene in Revenge of the Sith when Palpatine is talking about Darth Plagues is the exact same theme.


----------



## Zeta42 (Dec 22, 2015)

Let's predict how the next two episodes will mirror TESB and ROTJ.

- Snoke cuts off Rey's hand and says "I am your father"
- Finn gets frozen in carbonite, preceded by "I love you" - "I know" between him and Poe
- Luke dies from old age

Other ideas?


Kasuke Sadiki said:


> What if she's a Solo but NOT an Organa?


You mean an Organa but not a Solo? Cause she'd need to at least have Leia's genes to be this good at using the Force.


----------



## Pocalypse (Dec 22, 2015)

I don't think the other two films will mirror TESB and ROTJ, for starters you got different writers and different directors so they'll be doing something different than JJ Abrams. I feel like this film mirrored A New Hope and played it on the safe side so people can gain back their interest with Star Wars and hype up the next sequels, which I think they accomplished on a wider scale with the audience. They could afford to do it since it's the very first film of this trilogy.


----------



## Gunners (Dec 22, 2015)

Stunna said:


> Not really sure how you come to this conclusion.
> 
> It's emphasized that Rey's victory was because Ren was both physically and emotionally compromised; plus she had some plot-induced Force related help. It's pretty obvious that in any other situation that Ren would have handily won.
> 
> Both characters are about to undergo training, but it'll be Rey that will catch up with Ren; not the other way around.



Yeah, I think people are overlooking the development that Ren needs to go through. He was trained by look first, but people are ignoring what was said by Han and Leia. If I remember things correctly, he always had somewhat of a temper and was sent to Luke as a means of containing. 

It suggests that he went to Luke later on in life. It also raises questions with regards to what training he received from Luke. If he was a volatile little prick, it is probable that Luke focused on teaching him the elements centred on serenity, things he would have thrown out of the window. I doubt he would have focused on combat, which may have increased Ren's frustration.


----------



## Vault (Dec 22, 2015)

Rey was fucking powerful with the force dawg


----------



## Vault (Dec 22, 2015)

Gunners said:


> The lightsabers seem to be less lethal.



Yo i noticed that, All the slashes were mad shallow


----------



## Psychic (Dec 22, 2015)

Super Mike said:


> If Rey was a Solo, why wouldn't they mention it? I don't think they're dicks of that magnitude
> 
> She's either Luke's daughter or a random. I saw someone mention she could be a Kenobi, which would be way more interesting imo than the Skywalker suck off fest we seem to be doomed for.



Being a kenobi? Jedis aren't suppose to fall in love and I don't think Obi-Wan seems the type to break that code. However, I can see a Sith Lord breaking that code and having kids.  I could see her being Palpatine's granddaughter.



Stunna said:


> Yeah, there's zero chance Rey's a Solo/Organa. Their wasn't even a _hint_ of that behind her interactions with Han and Leia.


There was a hint, when Kylo Ren said to her,  "I see you think of him as the father you always wanted" or something along that line. And when Han said, "Chewy likes her" and he said that about Leia as well.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 22, 2015)

Psychic said:


> Being a kenobi? Jedis aren't suppose to fall in love and I don't think Obi-Wan seems the type to break that code.


Love isn't a prerequisite to reproduction.



> There was a hint, when Kylo Ren said to her,  "I see you think of him as the father you always wanted" or something along that line.


That wasn't a hint at him being her father; it was Ren exploiting her insecurity over being abandoned by her actual parents and seeing Han as a surrogate.



> And when Han said, "Chewy likes her" and he said that about Leia as well.


Chewbacca and Leia can't like someone without them being related to Han?


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 22, 2015)

chewie loved luke...wait, han is related to luke and leia?

the i*c*st awakens


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Dec 22, 2015)

strongarm85 said:


> So apparently Snoke's Theme, and the music playing in the Opera scene in Revenge of the Sith when Palpatine is talking about Darth Plagues is the exact same theme.



Dark Empire Plagueis incoming then


----------



## Yagami1211 (Dec 22, 2015)

Psychic said:


> Being a kenobi? Jedis aren't suppose to fall in love and I don't think Obi-Wan seems the type to break that code. However, I can see a Sith Lord breaking that code and having kids.  I could see her being Palpatine's granddaughter.
> 
> 
> There was a hint, when Kylo Ren said to her,  "I see you think of him as the father you always wanted" or something along that line. And when Han said, "Chewy likes her" and he said that about Leia as well.



Obi Wan could have just physical sex without love, you know. A one night pass.


----------



## Vault (Dec 22, 2015)

Finn casually saying "We will just use the force." 

Dat foreshadowing


----------



## Matta Clatta (Dec 22, 2015)

Han-"That's not how the force works"
actually the force can be used to guide your actions and provide the best outcome for situations when there is no concrete plan


----------



## tari101190 (Dec 22, 2015)

Rey can be a Kenobi without being Obi Wan's daughter.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 22, 2015)

There wouldn't be much point in that seeing as how Obi-Wan's the only Kenobi we know of from the films.


----------



## Vault (Dec 22, 2015)

Plagueis at it again, Rey is even more broken than the skywalkers


----------



## Stunna (Dec 22, 2015)

[YOUTUBE]TyQRp_1PjbU[/YOUTUBE]

I usually don't watch a lot of these Screen Junkies videos, but I decided to check this one out because of the "controversy" on Twitter involving Max Landis' opinions on TFA.

So far, I'm agreeing with 95% of what he's saying.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 22, 2015)

I mean

it's not like round tables with mics is anywhere close to a new concept


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 22, 2015)

Stunna said:


> I mean
> 
> it's not like round tables with mics is anywhere close to a new concept



i mean

that has nothing to do with what i said but cool stuff b


----------



## Stunna (Dec 22, 2015)

maybe not

but what you said was kind of dumb, so


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 22, 2015)

just not dumb enough for you to understand it


----------



## Stunna (Dec 22, 2015)

I understood

still dumb


----------



## tari101190 (Dec 22, 2015)

Stunna said:


> There wouldn't be much point in that seeing as how Obi-Wan's the only Kenobi we know of from the films.


Okay. But just saying she's a Kenobi is enough.

Just like Kylo Ren is a Skywalker without being directly related to Luke or Vader.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 22, 2015)

nah, b, you clearly didn't understand, based on your non sequitur response; but it's okay, it's a common response to not getting it


----------



## Stunna (Dec 22, 2015)

if you say so, homie


----------



## Fang (Dec 22, 2015)

Autism                             .


----------



## Stunna (Dec 22, 2015)

**


----------



## Fang (Dec 22, 2015)

It wasn't directed at you fam


----------



## Stunna (Dec 22, 2015)

tari101190 said:


> Okay. But just saying she's a Kenobi is enough.
> 
> Just like Kylo Ren is a Skywalker without being directly related to Luke or Vader.


That's not the same thing, though.

Kylo Ren is connected to the Skywalkers by his mother being one.

Rey being a Kenobi despite not being the direct child of Obi-Wan? There are no other Kenobis we know of like there are a couple different Skywalkers. It'd be random.

"Oh yeah, hi. My name's X Kenobi; my cousin/uncle/brother/nephew was Obi-Wan; he fought in the Clone Wars and trained Anakin and Luke. Me and the fam have just been chilling on Planet Z for the past couple decades."


----------



## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 22, 2015)

Seen it.

I'm giving it a 9.5/10. The film was VERY entertaining, and VERY well done. The acting was perfect. Cinematography too. Everything feels like an AAA movie, like the best Holywood can do.

Love the new characters. Finn was the best character in this movie, imo. The others are pretty solid too. Kylo Ren gets annoying at some points, but he drives the point across. He feels legit, and threatening. The blonde general is minor, but he is pretty effective too.

My problem is two things: one is the deus ex machinas, mainly the R2D2 thing at the end (and to a lesser extent, Rey becoming a Jedi out of nowhere, though it has always been like that). Second, the plot feels like a repeat of A New Hope though, which isn't necessarily bad, but helps make it predictable when it shouldn't (like, I could see Han Solo's death half a mile away).

But then I remember how Han Solo's death was fucking amazing and I can't hold a grudge against this film. It is pure, high-production value fun.

I just hope Rey doesn't turn out to be Luke's daughter, because I can also see that a mile away. Like, do something a little more original this time.

Also Finn being a Jedi would be awesome. The guy already proved he can be pretty badass with a light saber.


----------



## strongarm85 (Dec 22, 2015)

So the novel for the Force Awakens explains the relationship between the Republic, the First Order, and the Resistance better.

1. The Resistance and the Republic are effectively separate entities. The Resistance was formed to combat the First Order on an unofficial basis.

2. The reason why the Resistance is necessary is because the Republic bureaucracy has been too bogged down to officially go to war with the First Order. The reason for that is there are several systems in the Republic who did well under the Empire, and would like to see a return back to the days when the Empire was calling the shots.

3. The Resistance isn't big enough to actually go to fight the First Order directly since the First order is a much larger military power. Their tactics have been to hold off the First Order's expansion until such time that the Republic could finally move to use their fleet to crush the First Order.

4. When the Republic reformed they did not set up their capital on Coruscant. They set up their capital in the Hasnian system. Furthermore most of the Republic's fleet was in the Hasnian system and was destroyed when Star Killer base fired it's Hyperspace canon.

So basically the seat of the Republic has been destroyed, and it's fleet wiped out are in ashes. The first order is the strongest military power in the Galaxy. The second strongest military in the galaxy is the Resistance with their six fucking X-wings.


----------



## Pocalypse (Dec 22, 2015)

I just realised that if Snoke is Plagueis, it's a big fucking gamble to train ANOTHER sith who'll gank your ass once he's surpassed him, Palpatine shenanigans all over again. Snoke has some major cajones to do this shit on a regular basis


----------



## Raidoton (Dec 22, 2015)

Movie was okay. Actors did a good job. Visuals were great. The first 2 thirds were overall enjoyable.
Villains were a joke. Lot's of moments that didn't make much sense. The last third was a mess.

Overall okay movie.


----------



## tari101190 (Dec 22, 2015)

But that is the same thing.

Because the Skywalker that Kylo is directly related to isn't the Jedi one anyway. Force just has to be in the family.

All that is relevant is that Kylo is related to Luke & Vader. That is why he is special. The fact we know who is parents are is just extra motivational backstory stuff. 

And from this whole parallel storyteling star wars is going for, Luke's student being a Kenobi would work well.

(I honestly would rather she is just a random new person. But if she has to be familiar, I would rather Kenobi over Skywalker.)

So Rey being special because she is a Kenobi would be all we would need to know. It won't matter if she is a daughter, grandaughter, niece or whatever. We already know the the force can be hereditary.

Obi Wan's family could be regular people who do live on planet z and were not involved in anything.

Just like how Luke's sister just happens to be a princess general.

And I can't see Luke giving up his child. And as far as I am aware, there are no other Skywalkers.


----------



## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 22, 2015)

Bluebeard said:


> Maybe the rest of the Knights of Ren will interrupt her training which leads Finn on a mission to save her.



Inb4 there are more than just 2 sith. And Kylo Ren isn't even top 3.

And Finn will have to step up and become a jedi otherwise they'll be outnumbered.


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## Gunners (Dec 22, 2015)

Wanting her to be a Kenobi is akin to people saying Kelly was prettier than Beyonce. Yay, you want something inferior for the sake of being different.


----------



## Detective (Dec 22, 2015)

[YOUTUBE]lQDvsf5lAp0[/YOUTUBE]

SO GOOD


----------



## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 22, 2015)

Gunners said:


> Wanting her to be a Kenobi is akin to people saying Kelly was prettier than Beyonce. Yay, you want something inferior for the sake of being different.



I'd rather have her be a random nobody, honestly.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 22, 2015)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> I'd rather have her be a random nobody, honestly.



 Yay, you want something inferior for the sake of being different.


----------



## Fang (Dec 22, 2015)

Didn't we have this discussion before

And how stupid it would be for Obi-Wan to have any family

I could've sworn we did


----------



## Gunners (Dec 22, 2015)

Her being a character with no relation to existing characters would not be an inferior choice. 

Her being a Kenobi is the halfway point between being a Skywalker and being a random character. They would be better off working on a relationship with inherent depth or starting anew.


----------



## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 22, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> Yay, you want something inferior for the sake of being different.



I don't get where you see "inferior". Why does being a Skywalker automatically make a character better?

Some tropes get overdone every now and then, nothing bad about changing them.


----------



## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 22, 2015)

Crack theory: Rey is not a descendant of a Skywalker or a Kenobi. She descends from a sith such as Palpatine or Dooku.

Which makes her the polar opposite of Kylo Ren.

Edit: then again, this is somewhat a repeat of Anakin/Luke, so I dunno.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 22, 2015)

I agree, I just couldn't resist the joke 

But honestly, the parentage of an orphan gifted with great power usually plays a significant role in most stories. I doubt she's  a random.


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 22, 2015)

say remember master tatsu from the ninja turtles movies when he had tantrums? did people call him a bitch like they are kylo?


----------



## strongarm85 (Dec 22, 2015)

Kylo Ren is kind of like an inverted Darth Vader. So Darth Vader was somewhat imposing because his body and his stance were not emotive. Vader's individuality was pushed into the background because his individual persona as Anakin Skywalker.

In Kylo Ren's case we have tons of emotion just oozing off him and his voice. He's is still struggling to push his Ben Solo persona aside and truly become Kylo Ren.


----------



## Rukia (Dec 22, 2015)

I would like to see Rey get a love interest in episode 8.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 22, 2015)

She's already got Finn tho


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 22, 2015)

Finn's finna get friendzoned fam


----------



## Rukia (Dec 22, 2015)

No, he was basically just a plot device.  So was Han though.  She is the new Face of the Jedi Order.  And she is also the captain of the Millennium Falcon.  Kylo and her are the main characters moving forward.


----------



## Pocalypse (Dec 22, 2015)

Rukia said:


> I would like to see Rey get a love interest in episode 8.



Poe for the drama

Finn turns to the dark side after


----------



## Rukia (Dec 22, 2015)

That would be a neat twist.  Finn tries out this rebel thing for a while, but eventually decides that the First Order are in the right after all and switches sides once again.


----------



## The Runner (Dec 22, 2015)

Finn has Poe


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 22, 2015)

Bros b4 hoes


----------



## Stunna (Dec 22, 2015)

Finn and Rey are gonna meet again early in Episode VIII after a brief time skip and the former is gonna try and "pick up where they left off." Rey will rebuff him until the end of the movie when something dramatic will result in them getting together.

Calling it now.


----------



## Rukia (Dec 22, 2015)

[YOUTUBE]ryOhDO8ZU-0[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Rukia (Dec 22, 2015)

Well remember.  Rey and Finn did hug.  And that's as intimate as Stunna ever got with his last girlfriend.  So it makes sense that he would have that perspective.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 22, 2015)

I don't think the romance will be done well.

But I won't be that mad if it actually happens.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 22, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> Finn's finna get friendzoned fam



Stunna can relate


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 22, 2015)

SuperJoggaCypher the 3rd said:


> Finn has Poe


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 23, 2015)

to show off Naruto's new ougi

Box office update:



> *BOX OFFICE: STAR WARS: TFA To Break Record Held By SPIDER-MAN 2 Since 2004*
> 
> The Force may have awoken this past weekend, but so too has the box office as Star Wars: The Force Awakens continues to break records. According to Deadline, the J.J. Abrams helmed release looks set to earn upwards of $30 million today, and it's really being helped by the fact that kids are now off from school for the Christmas break. Spider-Man 2 has held the record for the highest Monday with $27.7 million since 2004, with only Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull ($26.8 million) and Jurassic World ($25.3 million) coming close to that. With a weekend haul of $247.97 million, it looks like Star Wars: The Force Awakens is going to have a lot of longevity, and that's good news for its prospects of beating Avatar's worldwide haul of a record $2 billion. How many times have you seen the movie so far? It's three and counting for me as of right now...






> *BOX OFFICE: STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS Passes $600 Million Worldwide*
> 
> Now that kids are off school for the Christmas holidays, Star Wars: The Force Awakens is really feeling the effect at the box office. The J.J. Abrams helmed release is going to sail past the $300 million mark in North America a little later today after earning $40.1 million yesterday, a figure which decimates the current record held by Spider-Man 2's $27.7 million back in 2004. As of right now, Star Wars: The Force Awakens is nearly 40% ahead of Spider-Man 2 and over 25% ahead of Jurassic World. These numbers are obviously huge, and following the movie's $524 million opening weekend at the worldwide box office, it has now passed $610 millon. _"Our sole focus has been creating a film that delivers that one-of-a-kind Star Wars experience, and director J.J. Abrams, Lucasfilm president Kathleen Kennedy and the Lucasfilm team have outdone themselves,"_ Walt Disney Studios chairman Alan Horn said in a statement today. Analysts are beginning to theorise that the movie could beat Avatar, but whatever happens, $2 billion is beginning to look likely...






> *BOX OFFICE: STAR WARS: TFA Passes $300M In North America Even Faster Than Expected*
> 
> Earlier today, we told you that Star Wars: The Force Awakens was on track to pass the $300 million mark in North America by close of business today. Well, as the movie continues to exceed box office expectations, it managed to reach that benchmark by midday! That means it set a new record by hitting $300 million in five days, easily topping Jurassic World's current record of EIGHT days.
> 
> ...






> *BOX OFFICE: STAR WARS: TFA May Become The Highest Grossing Movie Ever With $3 Billion*
> 
> Star Wars: The Force Awakens opened even bigger than expected this weekend, and it's quickly become evident that strong word of mouth is ensuring that the movie will have a lot of staying power at the worldwide box office (despite some initially predicting that it would be very top heavy, with the majority seeing it in the first few days, only for ticket sales to then plummet). Now, word comes via The Wrap that the J.J. Abrams helmed release is indeed the first real contender for the current $2.7 billion record held by Avatar, news which should make a lot of you very happy!
> 
> ...


----------



## Kasuke Sadiki (Dec 23, 2015)

strongarm85 said:


> So the novel for the Force Awakens explains the relationship between the Republic, the First Order, and the Resistance better.
> 
> 1. The Resistance and the Republic are effectively separate entities. The Resistance was formed to combat the First Order on an unofficial basis.
> 
> ...



Nice, I figured most of this based on what was said in the film. Nice to have it clarified a bit though. 

But it was clear there were political reasons why the Republic was separate from the Resistance, even though they were supporting them on the sly.


----------



## Fang (Dec 23, 2015)

Good to see the early days of revisionist bullshit from WEG games minimalism crap has carried over once again to Disney canon with the new "EU".


----------



## Detective (Dec 23, 2015)

Rukia said:


> Well remember.  Rey and Finn did hug.  And that's as intimate as Stunna ever got with his last girlfriend.  So it makes sense that he would have that perspective.



Well, that's not really telling the whole story, though, is it? I can understand how you're trying to protect Stuna, despite his betrayal of you so many years ago, Rukia, but let's not forget these two canonical posts:



			
				Rukia said:
			
		

> Didn't Stunna and his girlfriend have a weird no touching policy? But she hugged like random people right in front of him?





			
				Detective said:
			
		

> Can you believe he couldn't even properly break up with his 2nd girlfriend back home in his little small town of nowheresville, North Carolina?
> 
> He had the perfect excuse. That he was moving away to attend a community college in a slightly larger smalltown about 3 hours bus travel away.
> 
> She is still waiting for him to this day.



Stunna trying to right his own past vicariously through Finn.


----------



## BigPoppaPump (Dec 23, 2015)

Vault said:


> Plagueis at it again, Rey is even more broken than the skywalkers



The bitch is like Itachi in space! While Finn was basically Kevin Hart in space, shits fucked up.


----------



## Vault (Dec 23, 2015)

Itachi in space  

To make shit worse she was doing all that force shit without believing in the force and we know that can really hamper ones ability to use the force (think Luke trying to lift his ship from the swamp, bet Rey could have done it without believing )  when she started to believe you see how she outmuscled and punked Kylo Ren


----------



## BigPoppaPump (Dec 23, 2015)

Vault said:


> Itachi in space
> 
> To make shit worse she was doing all that force shit without believing in the force and we know that can really hamper ones ability to use the force (think Luke trying to lift his ship from the swamp, bet Rey could have done it without believing )  when she started to believe you see how she outmuscled and punked Kylo Ren



God damn, it's probably gonna be that theory you see about her being trained in the past and having her memory wiped, like when she made the lightsaber fly to her didn't that take Luke like 2 movies to learn? Imagine being Kylo and getting worked by a 5'2 girl with twigs for arms, that whole fight I was thinking "fuck the force snap her neck".

But I swear after watching Hunger Games and this, I realised that Hollywood is making pretty white girls hella overpowered in movies nowadays. You're seeing chicks who barely weigh 140 lbs beating up 7 or 8 guys who are twice their size, then defeating whole armies while being the only capable leader around for some reason. They're literally Shounen heroes but angsty instead of happy go lucky and genius' instead of a bit dumb.


----------



## BigPoppaPump (Dec 23, 2015)

Stunna said:


> She's already got Finn tho



They ain't letting you bang pretty white girls in movies unless you're Will Smith. Maybe Jamie Foxx and Denzel might get the privilege, but Boyega has to earn his stripes before he gets to bang Rey. Maybe start with an Amy Schumer movie?


----------



## Gilgamesh (Dec 23, 2015)

If Rey sunk her ship into the swamps on Dagobah I bet she would've immediately pulled it out with the force then asked Yoda why the fuck he was taking so long.


----------



## Akatora (Dec 23, 2015)

Was a pretty good movie, I'd say 8/10
So among the best of the year, but had it not been for the star wars name, it's questionable if i would remember this movie 5-10 years from now.


Anyway, anyone else found it strange that only X wings showed up for such an important mission?
If several inhabitet planets are to be the target of the planet destroyer why would only like 20 x wings be send to handle this? 
They wern't that stealthy really.


Also interesting how the good guys and the bad guys use the tech of the same sides they had in the past(no x wings for the first order for instance)


----------



## KuzuRyuSen (Dec 23, 2015)

Mark Hamil looks so old. He looks even older than Ford. :S


----------



## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 23, 2015)

Rukia said:


> No, he was basically just a plot device.  So was Han though.  She is the new Face of the Jedi Order.  And she is also the captain of the Millennium Falcon.  Kylo and her are the main characters moving forward.



Everyone is a plot device.


----------



## Zeta42 (Dec 23, 2015)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> Crack theory: Rey is not a descendant of a Skywalker or a Kenobi. She descends from a sith such as Palpatine or Dooku.
> 
> Which makes her the polar opposite of Kylo Ren.
> 
> Edit: then again, this is somewhat a repeat of Anakin/Luke, so I dunno.


What if she is another creation of Plageuis? Ren's gonna be so butthurt when Rey turns out to be literally Anakin 2.0


----------



## Mider T (Dec 23, 2015)

KuzuRyuSen said:


> Mark Hamil looks so old. He looks even older than Ford. :S



Facial hair.  Duh.


----------



## Mider T (Dec 23, 2015)

Stunna said:


> Finn and Rey are gonna meet again early in Episode VIII after a brief time skip and the former is gonna try and "pick up where they left off." Rey will rebuff him until the end of the movie when something dramatic will result in them getting together.
> 
> Calling it now.


----------



## Raidoton (Dec 23, 2015)

KuzuRyuSen said:


> Mark Hamil looks so old. He looks even older than Ford. :S


Han Solo looked a bit too clean to me anyway. I like the way Luke looked better. Dude's gonna look like Yoda in the end!


----------



## James Bond (Dec 23, 2015)

BigPoppaPump said:


> But I swear after watching Hunger Games and this, I realised that Hollywood is making pretty white girls hella overpowered in movies nowadays. You're seeing chicks who barely weigh 140 lbs beating up 7 or 8 guys who are twice their size, then defeating whole armies while being the only capable leader around for some reason. They're literally Shounen heroes but angsty instead of happy go lucky and genius' instead of a bit dumb.



Kate Beckinsale, Angelina Jolie, Jessica Biel, Milla Jovovich, Lucy Lawless, Summer Glau, Sarah Michelle Gellar.. strong women in movies isn't something that has recently started happening but has been about a while so don't really see what you are trying make a point of here. _-- Yes I realise I have probably left out some names but figured I listed enough to prove my point._

As for Kylo Ren, it was clear to me at least he is still a novice in the ways of the force and just because he had some feats with the force doesn't mean he was meant to be this Sith Lord in terms of skill (Kylo was the equivalent of a white belt in Karate to the ways of the force). Not to mention he also had just been shot by a freaking crossbow gun that wiped out three storm troopers with one shot...


----------



## Psychic (Dec 23, 2015)

Ok, I love TFA. And I love that Disney bought us back Star Wars. But Disney needs to calm down with the merchandise. It's getting ridiculous.


----------



## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 23, 2015)

This whole point about strong women in films is so stupid. Over half of the blockbusters still have male leads.

It's like you are so used to the status quo being "zero women leading blockbusters" that when a few are introduced you think this is some SJW takeover.

It's just Holywood abandoning stupid restrictions.


----------



## Kuromaku (Dec 23, 2015)

*Thoughts*

I finally got an opportunity to see it today, and having spent the past few hours digesting what I saw, I came to a conclusion. I personally thought that the movie was 


*Spoiler*: __ 



adequate. Not great as some rather hyperbolic reviews would imply, nor terrible as some nitpickers would suggest. It was not a bad movie. But to call it great really does not do justice to what "great" is supposed to be. _The Empire Strikes Back_ is great by virtue of taking everything from _Star Wars_ and making it better in terms of not only scope and scale, but also in terms of dramatic power and heart. To me, it might be around the level of _Return of the Jedi_. Maybe slightly lower. But that's not a bad thing.

For all the crap it gets, ROTJ does have a few things going for it. While definitely the weakest of the original trilogy due to certain elements, it also contains what are easily some of the very best moments of said trilogy, particularly anything to do with Luke's plotline. TFA didn't have as many low points, although there were issues to be had, but it never quite reached the heights of ROTJ's strongest sections.

Overall, it was a decent, but not all that memorable film, kind of what I expected from Abrams given his past work. It was watchable, and should be a decent springboard for future movies, but I'd argue that the reviews and current consensus are far too eager to label this a great SW picture after the debacle of the prequels. As far as blockbusters go, this is below the level of something like _Mad Max: Fury Road_, which entertained me on a visceral level while giving me various things to appreciate. At the same time, it's far superior to Disney's other major tentpole _Age of Ultron_, which was just plain meh.

Personally though, I preferred Abrams' _Star Trek_ reboot (2009), which was similar enough but just more fun to watch (at least for myself).

To go over some of my thoughts (I'll probably have more after I've had more time to digest everything), here's a summary of some of the movie's strengths and weaknesses:

+*Finn*: I really liked Finn as a character. Out of everyone, he's clearly the easiest to get behind.
*+**Poe*: I liked him too. He wasn't all that prominent, but he makes the most of his scenes.
*+**Kylo Ren*: Actually turned out to be a decent character in his own right. After some initial fears about his being a Darth Vader clone, I rather liked the exploration of the psyche of someone who's basically a Vader wannabe.
*+Chewie*: Chewbacca kicked ass in this one. I'm just putting this here because I pretty much enjoy Chewbacca in anything not related to the prequels or Life Day.
*-A reboot disguised as a sequel:* A bigger and better Death Star has to be blown up by a group that includes a grizzled old veteran, a youth who dreams of leaving a backwater desert planet, and a fast talking guy who wants to run away from the current conflict. Oh, and there's an astromech droid carrying the McGuffin.
*-**Rey*: I never realized I'd agree with Max Landis about something, but she's definitely a Canon Sue. After seeing the hulabaloo on Twitter, I thought he was putting his foot in his mouth as usual, but no, I definitely can see where he was coming from. Furthermore, the writers tried too hard to make Rey seem tough and independent with lines where she made clear to the silly men around her that she could take care of herself. I realize that they wanted to write a strong female character, but it seems that they forgot that the "strong" refers to the strength of the character's writing rather than their physical strength (as female characters in many past stories were written rather weakly). Even my sister, who I saw the film with, pointed this out to me when we left the theater. That aside, I did appreciate Ridley's performance, and my sis did like that Rey was not treated as mere eye candy in impractical looking outfits. In fact, if anything, Rey's outfit looked not only practical, but comfortable enough.
*-Unmemorable score*: I never thought I'd think the score of a SW movie handled by John Williams unmemorable. But here we are. Even the prequels, for all their faults, at least had some good music to elevate the films from merely bad to something worth buying the soundtrack to.
*-Lack of emotional depth*: My issue with JJ Abrams is that he doesn't allow his movies to "sit," even when slowing down for a minute or two would benefit a scene. As a result, moments that could and should have given the viewer time to cool down...didn't.
*NEUTRAL*: Snoke. Guy didn't really do anything for me.
*NEUTRAL: Han's death*: Was spoiled months back. Saw it coming. Had long since made my peace with it.




P.S. I just rewatched _Revenge of the Sith_ on my old DVD (not the Blue-Ray, but just normal DVD), and when I clicked play from the main menu, the menu screen, which depicted a behind-the-back view of Palpatine viewing something in his chair, transitioned to the Chancellor's chair turning around and Palpatine launching into the Sheev Spin.


----------



## MartialHorror (Dec 23, 2015)

Was I the only one who felt that the Star Killer was unnecessary? The movie was about finding Luke, so the climax should've surrounded that in some way. In Episode 4, the Death Star was the reason for the plot kicking off. Therefore, it was fitting for its destruction to be the climax. As the hunt of Luke was the reason for the plot kicking off, it should've surrounded him in some way. THe Star Killer only seems to exist to give the supporting cast something to do. 

Anyway, my review is in sig!


----------



## Kuromaku (Dec 23, 2015)

MartialHorror said:


> Was I the only one who felt that the Star Killer was unnecessary? The movie was about finding Luke, so the climax should've surrounded that in some way. In Episode 4, the Death Star was the reason for the plot kicking off. Therefore, it was fitting for its destruction to be the climax. As the hunt of Luke was the reason for the plot kicking off, it should've surrounded him in some way. THe Star Killer only seems to exist to give the supporting cast something to do.
> 
> Anyway, my review is in sig!



Nah, I'm with you on that. It was basically a rehash of the Death Star except bigger and better and somehow less threatening to the audience despite being bigger and better.

Just read your review earlier, it seems we both have similar thoughts on where the movie ranks among the rest of the series.


----------



## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 23, 2015)

Han's death was the best scene in the movie, imo. Helps that I didn't get spoiled. 

It showcases what this movie is so good for, which is its acting. Han, Kylo Ren and Chewbacca were all amazing in that scene.

The scene in the end where Rey meets Leia after Han's death is also very powerful. You can feel Leia's sadness there.


----------



## Raidoton (Dec 23, 2015)

Kuromaku said:


> Nah, I'm with you on that. It was basically a rehash of the Death Star except bigger and better and somehow less threatening to the audience despite being bigger and better.


It would've looked more threatening if it didn't look like a giant Pokeball


----------



## RAGING BONER (Dec 23, 2015)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> *This whole point about strong women in films is so stupid*.



man that aint even the thing here...

take the recent Mad Maxine movie...that was a action female done right. Highlight of the movie outside of the carchase porn.

this lil bitchlette Ray(of light) became a muhfuggin jedi master in the span of 2 scenes...it reeks of bullshit pandering.

no need to even bring up the fact that she was good at everything and constantly had to "reassert" her vaginal equality by not only outdoing everyone(with no training whatsoever), but fucking having to say it too (goddamned cardinal sin right there...you SHOW, not TELL)


----------



## Stunna (Dec 23, 2015)

tbf tho

any time Rey was vocally affirmed to being a capable person, it was preceded by us actually seeing it (her insistence on not needed to fold Finn's hand followed actually seeing her survive and fight on Jakku; her insistence to Han that she could take care of herself followed her actually pragmatically repairing the Falcon and save Finn from the monsters Han was smuggling, etc.)


----------



## Orochibuto (Dec 23, 2015)

At this point Rey has to either be another Plagueis creation or Plagueis unbalanced the force again with his wierd experiments, to the point it changed force abilities and potential on a galactic scale.

It they actually want to scrap the midichlorians thing, this could be a good plot to do it, Plagueis arleady once unbalanced the force in a galactic scale, with a experiment that filled the galaxy with the dark side.

If Snoke is Plagueis and he has been alive all this time, being he was the master of midichlorians, maybe he did some shit like give himself a million midichlorian count and the force retaliated by basically saying to him "Fuck you, now everyone has infinite force potential so the midichlorian count is now irrelevant." Just like how the force retaliated to his earlier experiments by creating Anakin.

It would be a way to bridge the PT concept of the force with the OT one.


----------



## masamune1 (Dec 23, 2015)

James Bond said:


> *As for Kylo Ren, it was clear to me at least he is still a novice in the ways of the force and just because he had some feats with the force doesn't mean he was meant to be this Sith Lord in terms of skill (Kylo was the equivalent of a white belt in Karate to the ways of the force).* Not to mention he also had just been shot by a freaking crossbow gun that wiped out three storm troopers with one shot...



Aren't we told that he was trained by Luke as a Jedi, then turned on him and help kill all of the Jedi? AND that he is the leader of the Knights of Ren (whoever they are)?

Kylo might not be Sith Lord level, but he isn't a white belt. He has years of training and experience; he even froze a laser bolt in mid air.



MartialHorror said:


> Was I the only one who felt that the Star Killer was unnecessary? The movie was about finding Luke, so the climax should've surrounded that in some way. In Episode 4, the Death Star was the reason for the plot kicking off. Therefore, it was fitting for its destruction to be the climax. As the hunt of Luke was the reason for the plot kicking off, it should've surrounded him in some way. THe Star Killer only seems to exist to give the supporting cast something to do.
> 
> Anyway, my review is in sig!



Starkiller was easily the weakest part of the film. Many problems with it.



Dragon D. Luffy said:


> The scene in the end where Rey meets Leia after Han's death is also very powerful. You can feel Leia's sadness there.



Yeah...Too bad she had never met Leia before that scene and should have had no idea who she was. 



Stunna said:


> tbf tho
> 
> any time Rey was vocally affirmed to being a capable person, it was preceded by us actually seeing it (her insistence on not needed to fold Finn's hand followed actually seeing her survive and fight on Jakku; her insistence to Han that she could take care of herself followed her actually pragmatically repairing the Falcon and save Finn from the monsters Han was smuggling, etc.)



You shouldn't have to "vocally affirm" that she is a capable person in the first place. If the point is to point out that she IS a capable person, pointing it out only undermines it.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 23, 2015)

masamune1 said:


> You shouldn't have to "vocally affirm" that she is a capable person in the first place. If the point is to point out that she IS a capable person, pointing it out only undermines it.


It depends.

I didn't find it egregious in this movie because it was in service of emphasizing that Rey had lived her life up until the events of the film alone and distrusting of others. As far as we know, this is the first time in her life where she's been consistently interacting with people who actually care about her as a person, so she instinctively rebuffs their aid.

However, whether you agree with that or not is irrelevant to my initial point, which wasn't to argue whether vocal affirmation is good or bad, but just to emphasize that there at least _was_ showing as well.


----------



## Gunners (Dec 23, 2015)

I didn't have a problem with her saying ''I can take care of myself'' because it reflected an element of her character that she grew out of. Some people who grow up fending for themselves don't take kindly to help of others; Han's words showed that showed that she had a chip on her shoulder, and Finn's assistance showed that as capable as she was she needed help.

I don't think it was the writers way of ramming it down people's throats. If that was there intention, Han wouldn't have corrected her and Finn wouldn't have saved her from the air strike. They went out of their way to show the value in accepting help.



masamune1 said:


> Aren't we told that he was trained by Luke as a Jedi, then turned on him and help kill all of the Jedi? AND that he is the leader of the Knights of Ren (whoever they are)?





> Yeah, I think people are overlooking the development that Ren needs to go through. He was trained by Luke first, but people are ignoring what was said by Han and Leia. If I remember things correctly, he always had somewhat of a temper and was sent to Luke as a means of containing.
> 
> It suggests that he went to Luke later on in life. It also raises questions with regards to what training he received from Luke. If he was a volatile little prick, it is probable that Luke focused on teaching him the elements centred on serenity, things he would have thrown out of the window. I doubt he would have focused on combat, which may have increased Ren's frustration.


----------



## masamune1 (Dec 23, 2015)

Gunners said:


> I didn't have a problem with her saying ''I can take care of myself'' because it reflected an element of her character that she grew out of. Some people who grow up fending for themselves don't take kindly to help of others; Han's words showed that showed that she had a chip on her shoulder, and Finn's assistance showed that as capable as she was she needed help.
> 
> I don't think it was the writers way of ramming it down people's throats. If that was there intention, Han wouldn't have corrected her and Finn wouldn't have saved her from the air strike. They went out of their way to show the value in accepting help.



I don't think they were "ramming it down people's throats", but to me it came across less as a part of her character and more of trying to subvert certain helpless female tropes- partly that's because I got a vibe that Finn has a streak of "chivalrous hero" in him and tries to save her more than once, only for her to turn around and either not need saving or end up saving him. And it grated as it wasn't necessary. 



> Yeah, I think people are overlooking the development that Ren needs to go through. He was trained by Luke first, but people are ignoring what was said by Han and Leia. If I remember things correctly, he always had somewhat of a temper and was sent to Luke as a means of containing.
> 
> It suggests that he went to Luke later on in life. It also raises questions with regards to what training he received from Luke. If he was a volatile little prick, it is probable that Luke focused on teaching him the elements centred on serenity, things he would have thrown out of the window. I doubt he would have focused on combat, which may have increased Ren's frustration.



Except, again, he betrayed and killed Luke's Jedi Order, and he is the leader of a group of knights, _and_ he has impressive Force feats. He is certainly not a novice of any kind, even if he isn't a master.


----------



## Ciupy (Dec 23, 2015)

Just saw the movie and it was great.

The plot may have been a remix/inspired by ANH but the characters the actors played were great and it's a long way from the shit heap that were the Prequels.

Highly,highly entertaining movie.


----------



## strongarm85 (Dec 23, 2015)

Fang said:


> Good to see the early days of revisionist bullshit from WEG games minimalism crap has carried over once again to Disney canon with the new "EU".



The Author is for the Force Awakens novel is literally the same guy who wrote novelization for A New Hope. He also wrote Splinter of the Mind's eye.

So of course it carries over, it's literally the same people writing the new EU.


----------



## Bishamon (Dec 23, 2015)

masamune1 said:


> Except, again, he betrayed and killed Luke's Jedi Order, and he is the leader of a group of knights, _and_ he has impressive Force feats. He is certainly not a novice of any kind, even if he isn't a master.



It is implied that all of the people he killed were around his age and were as untrained as he was, as they were supposed to be the first Jedi since their anihilation. It's quite probable they also weren't experts at handling a light saber and that combined with his innate connection to the force due to his family and his anger made him hard to match.

Plus, he hasn't done anything actually amazing with the force - Sure he stopped a laser in mid air and can telekinetically trap people and shit, but all of that doesn't sound very much different from regular telekinesis that an average can do. It's not like he lifted a giant fucking ship like Yoda did.

Now, where is it stated that Kylo is the leader of the knights of Ren? I'm looking into that and nothing says he was the leader.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 23, 2015)

Let's be honest here:

Single-handily defeating _all_ of Luke's other students (who had presumably been training under Luke for just as long, if not longer, than Kylo had) is an impressive feat, regardless of his lineage.


----------



## Fang (Dec 23, 2015)

How do you know he defeated them in a meaningful way? Or fairly in combat? All we know is he killed them, not how he did it, when he did it before Episode VII's main story or the means which he got to do it through.

And its highly unlikely Kylo started as a late bloomer compared to the other students because that information isn't even relevant or possible to speculate yet. From my understanding, Ren is at least 10 years older then Rey as well.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 23, 2015)

we don't know how talented they were tho :byakuya

whereas he had luke's and anakin's blood


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 23, 2015)

Fang said:


> How do you know he defeated them in a meaningful way? Or fairly in combat? All we know is he killed them, not how he did it, when he did it before Episode VII's main story or the means which he got to do it through.
> 
> And its highly unlikely Kylo started as a late bloomer compared to the other students because that information isn't even relevant or possible to speculate yet. From my understanding, Ren is at least 10 years older then Rey as well.



Was going to say the same

I don't think he engaged all of them, if any.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 23, 2015)

Fang said:


> How do you know he defeated them in a meaningful way? Or fairly in combat? All we know is he killed them, not how he did it, when he did it before Episode VII's main story or the means which he got to do it through.


True; it just seemed like a fair enough assumption to make.



Lucaniel said:


> we don't know how talented they were tho :byakuya


Also true, but again, it seems like a natural assumption that it wasn't a bunch of scrubs and then Kylo.


----------



## RAGING BONER (Dec 23, 2015)

yeah i'm pretty sure him slaughtering all of Skywalkers other disciples was meant to mirror Anni murdering all them "younglings" too


----------



## Fang (Dec 23, 2015)

RAGING BONER said:


> Plagueis referred to him as Master of the Knights of Ren iirc when saying that even he(K-Ren) had never faced a challenge like what he was about to face.



>Plagueis


----------



## Stunna (Dec 23, 2015)

RAGING BONER said:


> yeah i'm pretty sure him slaughtering all of Skywalkers other disciples was meant to mirror Anni murdering all them "younglings" too


That's how I pictured it.

Just one day Kylo strolls up to wherever all the students congregate and started fucking shit up.


----------



## Fang (Dec 23, 2015)

For all you know Ren could've snapped, fell to the dark side, and then returned with the other Knights of Ren after a short time under Snooky, and killed the rest of the Jedi trainees at Luke's academy

Not enough information yet


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 23, 2015)

I'd expect disciples to have varying levels of skill. I mean..some students had to be newer than others. 

Stormtroopers easily picked off jedi knights during Order 66.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 23, 2015)

Fang said:


> >Plagueis



don't pretend like that shit ain't gonna happen.

this "Snoke" nonsense won't stand forever


----------



## Stunna (Dec 23, 2015)

Fang said:


> For all you know Ren could've snapped, fell to the dark side, and then returned with the other Knights of Ren after a short time under Snooky, and killed the rest of the Jedi trainees at Luke's academy


Yes.**


----------



## masamune1 (Dec 23, 2015)

Point is, while you could make the argument that he doesn't have experience, it sounds kind of flimsy to me given what we know about the guy. 

Yes, he was trained as a Jedi by Luke Skywalker at Luke's academy / order.

Yes, he did kill _all_ of the other Jedi of that order sans Luke himself, even if he had help from the other Knights of Ren.

Yes, he _is_ stated to be the leader of the Knights of Ren.

Yes, he _does_ actually have a friggin' lightsaber and Force feats, and he _has_ been serving The First Order in a military capacity for several years as far as we know.

So no, it's not very likely that he is lacking in the experience department, or that he is so unskilled that a complete novice should be able to beat him.

The only possible explanations I can accept are 1) He really was just _that_ injured, 2) the fan theories that he was the one who dropped Rey off on that planet, and thus has some sort of familial connection to or at least affection for her, and thus was holding back, are true, and 3) he was mentally and emotionally shaken after the whole Han Solo thing. 

Though I would add that even if all of these are true, I'm not totally satisfied (and for 2) I don't like the excuse that "it will all make sense once the sequels come out"), since just because something makes sense in-univerese doesn't mean it was a good idea, or make the fight any less boring. He could still have beaten her either with the Force or with a lightsaber non-fatally, or he could have just plain beaten her but she escapes or is rescued, or they could have had another character who _was_ a good duelist (the fact that the new Jedi Order was destroyed- that they hit the reset button with that and everything else- just plain bugs me), or any number of other options. 

I wasn't overawed by this film, or it's ending, in case you couldn't tell.


----------



## Harbour (Dec 23, 2015)

Characters of TFA were meh. Actors were good, but the characters itself were written bad. Motivation of all of them was flawed, relationships lacked the substance, and no development was there.

Finn. Trained trooper went full girl because he doesnt like to kill. Few minutes later he blew up own comrades with Tie-Fighter's turbo laser. He ran away because of that, then accidentally got ass kicked by the Rey and then he followed the orders of the boner for the grill. Weak concept.

Rey. Dreamy girl-scavenger. She then show herself good as person - towards BB8 - and that was kinda strange. Probably cause she like the audience found the metallic ball cute. But whatever. Then she just demonstrated the vast set of skills, but nothing else. Flashback didn't explore her character at all. Then she just became the pseudo-damsel in distress just to go full Mary Sue. And in the end of the movie she is still the same girl but upped 100th level.

Kylo. This dude has no explanation of motives and became Anakin v2.5EP. No development. Maybe a little - in the beginning he killed the old man he knew before but who wasn't his father, and in the end he killed the old man he knew before but who was his father. Great step.

Poe. The best pilot just believed to Finn like that. Then he went playing some space arcade with the killing of bunch of tie-fighters. Thats all.


I dont even speak about side characters like Hux, Snoke or Phasma. Trash not the characters. Even episodic characters were absolutely eh. One moment the camera focused on the chinese admiral or who he was in Resistance HQ and i thought "Who the hell is this dude and why is cameraman focusing on him?"


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 23, 2015)

^ **


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## Lucaniel (Dec 23, 2015)

1 and 3 should be enough tbh

we already saw how much more powerful that crossbow was than a regular blaster and anyone would be shaken after doing that


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## Stunna (Dec 23, 2015)

I really do think people would accept Rey winning at the end more if she hadn't been so "amazing" the rest of the movie as well.

They blew their load on her awesome quota too soon.


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## Vault (Dec 23, 2015)

Only Luke can honestly stop Plagueis but we all know Rey gonna solo


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 23, 2015)

Stunna said:


> I really do think people would accept Rey winning at the end more if she hadn't been so "amazing" the rest of the movie as well.
> 
> They blew their load on her awesome quota too soon.



Yeah, After reversing his mind trick soon after discovering it exist. Losing to him in battle wasn't all that surprising imo.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 23, 2015)

the earth in the Rey vs K Ren asswhooping literally tore asunder and that's how the fight ends.

honestly, it should have been Ren just hammering her over and over trying to get her to submit. Then maybe he loses his footing or gets fatigued from blood loss and she manages to get some distance until the earth splits apart.

instead our fresh faced villain barely survives getting poked to death by little orphan Rey...and i'm posta just accept that bullshit like it's not the most nonsensical shit thats happened in a galaxy far far away since 10 year old Anakin  blows up a goddamned trade federation ship all by himself or Padawan Obi jumps OVER Darth Maul (who has the most high ground thats ever been had in SW) and cuts him in half...

you know what, fuck it...I ain't even mad. Shit was better than the prequels which is all I really hoped for tbh


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## Stunna (Dec 23, 2015)

RAGING BONER said:


> you know what, fuck it...I ain't even mad. Shit was better than the prequels which is all I really hoped for tbh


You know, this was my bare minimum going into the movie, and while it is indeed better than the prequels, this standard has been ruined for me by people who I've seen using it as an excuse to shut down criticism of the picture.


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## Gilgamesh (Dec 23, 2015)

lol it's not better than TPM and ROTS


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## Gunners (Dec 23, 2015)

masamune1 said:


> I don't think they were "ramming it down people's throats", but to me it came across less as a part of her character and more of trying to subvert certain helpless female tropes- partly that's because I got a vibe that Finn has a streak of "chivalrous hero" in him and tries to save her more than once, only for her to turn around and either not need saving or end up saving him. And it grated as it wasn't necessary.



I disagree with you. If the purpose was to subvert the helpless females tropes, the final note wouldn't be Finn saving her from death or Han essentially telling her to remove the chip from her shoulder. 

I got the vibe that an individual who prided herself on independence was paired with someone with a good heart. Finn trying to help her was within his character and apprehension to help was a part of her character.  

I didn't feel it was unnecessary: it portrayed elements of their characters, it also played a role in how their characters and relationships developed in the film. 



> Except, again, he betrayed and killed Luke's Jedi Order, and he is the leader of a group of knights, _and_ he has impressive Force feats. He is certainly not a novice of any kind, even if he isn't a master.



I didn't say he was a novice. I'm saying that it difficult to quantify the benefits of Luke's training and the significance of him slaughtering unknown Jedi.

To be frank, the training he received from Luke could be holding him back. It's possible that there are a lot of things he has to unlearn.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 23, 2015)

Stunna said:


> You know, this was my bare minimum going into the movie, and while it is indeed better than the prequels, this standard has been ruined for me by people who I've seen using it as an excuse to shut down criticism of the picture.


the film earns its criticism, but it also has to earn its praise too. I mean, what preceded it was so abominable that only people younger than you or with less brain power than a lower life form can't see them for the shit that they are.

now _this_ movie, a rehash of a new hope or whatever it may be...


I will say that every major character in this movie is far superior in their likability, portrayal and chemistry than LITERALLY EVERY character from the PT.

That alone places the movie miles above those others.


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 23, 2015)

It was sort of about as good as the prequels. I'm not a big star wars guy, and there was competency in this movie that the prequels didn't have, but the movie gets dinged for basically being a retread of the original movie, and having some of the original trilogy actors not really bringing their A game. Carrie fisher stuck out more than ford, but they never really seemed to be inhabiting the movie.

I like finn and the woman, but I didn't like most of the OT inclusions. I think it would have worked for me more if the OT had been left out and the movie had just been about the new cast. For some reason these retreads haven't been doing it for me. I fell asleep during jurassic world and lost interest in tfa halfway through, once the retread mode really kicked in and I was just watching the third death star be destroyed the same way again, with no particular innovation. But the new characters were good (especially the villain), and I liked the bro relationship between oscar isaac and finn.

So, not for me. It's about as good as the star trek remake. People are loving this stuff, but I don't get it. I do feel bad for Lucas, though. Seeing this movie made me appreciate the prequels more. If the prequels had improved their acting and writing, they would be leaps and bounds overhead this movie.


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## Lucaniel (Dec 23, 2015)

> It was sort of about as good as the prequels.


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 23, 2015)

You know I'm right, hype man.


*Spoiler*: __ 



I don't know what hype man is. Just go with it.


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 23, 2015)

I just hope we're done having Death Stars in any of the future installments.

this dude Snoke thought that plan was a failure because Sidious didn't think big enough.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 23, 2015)

Imma break it down for the youngns and the tasteless...

This movie has _some_ heart. Love went into it's crafting...for better or worse; and it shows.

The prequels not only have no heart...they have no fucking soul. I could give a darn about anything that was happening, nothing was funny and the laser sword fights were just exaggeratedly choreographed garbage. A soulless, poorly written, poorly directed, and terribly acted PoS.


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## Fang (Dec 23, 2015)

RAGING BONER said:


> Imma break it down for the youngns and the tasteless...
> 
> This movie has _some_ heart. Love went into it's crafting...for better or worse; and it shows.
> 
> The prequels not only have no heart...they have no fucking soul. I could give a darn about anything that was happening, nothing was funny and the laser sword fights were just exaggeratedly choreographed garbage. A soulless, poorly written, poorly directed, and terribly acted PoS.



JJ pls go


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 23, 2015)

> Imma break it down for the youngns and the tasteless...
> 
> This movie has some heart. Love went into it's crafting...for better or worse; and it shows.
> 
> The prequels not only have no heart...they have no fucking soul. I could give a darn about anything that was happening, nothing was funny and the laser sword fights were just exaggeratedly choreographed garbage. A soulless, poorly written, poorly directed, and terribly acted PoS.



Yeah, there were good moments. Most everything with the new guys was fun. Finn was great. The girl was good. Oscar isaac can do no wrong. Kylo rinn always hit.

But there were good moments in the prequels too. The action scenes were usually terrific (I guess the effects have aged, but what are you gonna do). The last fight with anakin and obi wan was great, and the music was sublime. There were silly moments with kid anakin, old anakin, nooooooo and portman having nothing to do, with there were silly moments in this movie too. The scene leading up to han solo getting etcetera was pretty telegraphed and cheesy, ford's goofy expression at the climax took me out of it. The death scene in episode one with leslie neilson, obi wann and the maul was, like, measurably better. I thought that entire lightsaber climax was better than any action scene in TFA.

And when the big death planet blew up, I did a double take because I had no idea how it suddenly blew up. I physically phased out of attention when the videogame ships were shooting lasers at each other for ten minutes and racing through trenches again. Carrie fisher's acting was about as bad as the prequel acting. So on.

I enjoyed it as much as the prequels, and I can't tell if everyone is caught up in the hype, happy to see the OT characters again, or what. It can't be that other people just liked it more and have different sensibilities than I do. So I want to get to the bottom of this. There's a disturbance in the force here.


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## Stunna (Dec 23, 2015)

reiatsuflow said:


> The death scene in episode one with *leslie neilson*, obi wann and the maul was, like, measurably better.


ayyyyyyyyyyyyy


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## Stunna (Dec 23, 2015)

tfw you'll never see the adventures of Leslie Nielsen, Jedi Master


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## Mider T (Dec 23, 2015)

Is this that face?


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 23, 2015)

RIP neilson's great legend


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## Stunna (Dec 23, 2015)

Mider T said:


> Is this that face?


tfw = that feel when

if I were talking about my face, I would have used mfw = my face when


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## Fang (Dec 23, 2015)

reiatsuflow said:


> The death scene in episode one with leslie neilson, obi wann and the maul was, like, measurably better. I thought that entire lightsaber climax was better than any action scene in TFA.



Did you mean Liam Neeson?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 23, 2015)

> But there were good moments in the prequels too


true

the prequels were not some ~2-3/10 garbage 


even TPM had Maul and a great Qui-Gon


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## Orochibuto (Dec 23, 2015)

Vault said:


> Only Luke can honestly stop Plagueis but we all know Rey gonna solo



I hope it is really Luke, or Force Ghost Anakin. Rey shouldn't be capable of beating him, at most she should (and it would be retardedly hillarious if she did) be capable of defeat a Kylo Ren that has become as strong as Vader and that's it.

Seriously, if he is really Plagueis, he should be on another level. Unlike Sidious and other Sith Lords, Plagueis was considered by The Force to be a threat to itself, it created Anakin specifically to counter his experiments and he developed a technique that allowed him (along with Sidious) to fill the entire galaxy in darkness and undo the balance.

If he actually survived all these years and tricked Sidious into believing he is dead, he probably has long surpassed Sidious and now is a guy that needs Grandmaster Luke (equal to Anakin at 100% potential) to be stopped, at the very least. Rey defeating him would be utter bullshit.


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## masamune1 (Dec 23, 2015)

Gunners said:


> I disagree with you. If the purpose was to subvert the helpless females tropes, the final note wouldn't be Finn saving her from death or Han essentially telling her to remove the chip from her shoulder.
> 
> I got the vibe that an individual who prided herself on independence was paired with someone with a good heart. Finn trying to help her was within his character and apprehension to help was a part of her character.
> 
> I didn't feel it was unnecessary: it portrayed elements of their characters, it also played a role in how their characters and relationships developed in the film.



I don't think that was the MAIN purpose of the character or anything; I just think it was there. It was the purpose- or one of the purposes- of many little moments. Other characters don't get it so much, if at all.



> I didn't say he was a novice. I'm saying that it difficult to quantify the benefits of Luke's training and the significance of him slaughtering unknown Jedi.
> 
> To be frank, the training he received from Luke could be holding him back. It's possible that there are a lot of things he has to unlearn.



YOU didn't say it, but someone else did (comparing him to a white belt) and that is who I was originally replying to.

And Luke's training may have held him back...but that is doubtful. I doubt lightsaber combat is something he has to unlearn, and he is plenty competent with the Force throughout...except versus Rey, who trumps his years of training and ability for no obvious and likely no good reason (and if there is one, it won't be confirmed until the sequels).


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 23, 2015)

> Did you mean Liam Neeson?



Yes. Let's pretend I was playing around instead of being some new form of dyslexic.


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 23, 2015)

I actually hope Kylo  kills Snoke to signify his complete  transition to the dark side. I really hope he doesn't get redeemed back to the light. We do not need a Vader 2.


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## Gunners (Dec 23, 2015)

masamune1 said:
			
		

> And Luke's training may have held him back...but that is doubtful. I doubt lightsaber combat is something he has to unlearn, and he is plenty competent with the Force throughout...except versus Rey, who trumps his years of training and ability for no obvious and likely no good reason (and if there is one, it won't be confirmed until the sequels).



How do you know Luke trained him to use a lightsaber? As I mentioned in my previous post, he was sent to train with Luke because he had issues. With that in mind, I think focusing on discipline and serenity would be the number one priority. 

Moreover, I think the differing approaches to using the force could play a role in his performance. If he had been coached to clear his mind, let the force guide him, stay calm etc. The sensation of aggressively drawing on the force, channelling his anger and so on could clash with what is instinctive to him. I think it would be like switching the buttons around on a controller. 

You've had non force sensitive getting the better of Jedi. I don't think Rey toppling and injured and unstable Ren is an issue. We don't even know how powerful he is at the moment.


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## Lucaniel (Dec 23, 2015)

Weiss said:


> true
> 
> the prequels were not some ~2-3/10 garbage
> 
> ...



yes they are

you're just basic

qui gon was a big nothing
maul was a big nothing disguised by an unusual lightsaber and demon makeup


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## James Bond (Dec 23, 2015)

masamune1 said:


> YOU didn't say it, but someone else did (comparing him to a white belt) and that is who I was originally replying to.



That was me, I used white belt analogy because based on what I saw I think he has leaps/bounds to go to match or surpass Darth Vader level which I think he is destined to do because new generation > older generation story telling ploy.


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 23, 2015)

> qui gon was a big nothing



But what about that climactic light saber fight between those two and darth maul? 

On a scale of A to A+, it's at least an A-. Think about it.


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## Fang (Dec 23, 2015)

Shitposting from Lucy chan is getting stale now tbh fam


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 23, 2015)

reiatsuflow said:


> But what about that climactic light saber fight between those two and darth maul?
> 
> On a scale of A to A+, it's at least an A-. Think about it.



their fight was meaningless; I didn't like or know those characters because they weren't developed at all in any meaningful way; I wasn't quite sure of the reason they were even fighting other than "_final battle time: queue lightsaber fight_".

when Q-Gon (pointless addition to the mythos btw) died it was "meh, so what?" a dry character who was given nothing of value to do bites the dust.

then when Obi went to fight i thought maybe he'll show a little heart now...but same fucking garbage fighting, no emotion whatsoever.

And the way he beat Darth Maul? that shit was insulting.


i mean aside from that I guess it _looked_ cool.


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## Stunna (Dec 23, 2015)

RAGING BONER said:


> when Q-Gon (pointless addition to the mythos btw)


objectively false tbh


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## Lucaniel (Dec 23, 2015)

Stunna said:


> objectively false tbh



objectively?

how can it be objectively false? 

explain


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## Parallax (Dec 23, 2015)

Fang said:


> Shitposting from Lucy chan is getting stale now tbh fam



Dis irony doe


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## Stunna (Dec 23, 2015)

because Qui-Gon's role in the movie was to be a positive father figure in Anakin's life (the one he'd never had) and to show more of what the Jedi were _supposed_ to be. His death was inadvertently a contributing factor to Anakin falling to the Dark Side, because without his influence, Anakin was left in the care of Obi-Wan and the rest of the Jedi Order, who were failures as father figures/guardians, which led to Palpatine stepping into the role. And we all know how that turned out.


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## Wan (Dec 23, 2015)

reiatsuflow said:


> The death scene in episode one with leslie neilson, obi wann and the maul was, like, measurably better. I thought that entire lightsaber climax was better than any action scene in TFA.



I'll give you better choreographed, and it had better music.  But there was no _tension_ to the fight, no sense of urgency, no sense of danger.  In TPM, Maul shows up to fight, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan are all like "we'll handle this", and a fight happens.  No emotional stakes, and the fight is completely detached from everything else that's going on in the story.  Liam Neeson are nonchalant through virtually the whole fight.  Maul has some intense facial expressions though.  

The emotional stakes go up a bit when Maul kills Qui-Gon, but still -- who is this guy? Why am I supposed to care about him, other than the fact that he's played by Liam Neeson?  Is it because of the monotone he speaks in for the whole movie?  Is it that godawful midichlorians dialogue he spouted? I don't know.  And there's no expression of pain on his face when he gets run through with a lightsaber.  Qui Gon in that scene:

[YOUTUBE]BO7DwBmRqzs[/YOUTUBE]

And then Maul goes down like a chump to Obi-Wan.  There was so much unrealized potential with Maul that just goes to waste in TPM.  There's a reason numerous EU materials have sought to resurrect him and actually do something with him.  As it is in TPM, was anyone cheering Obi-wan to kick Maul's ass as if they were emotionally invested after he killed Qui-Gon?  I doubt it.

In TFA the lightsaber fight happens directly after


*Spoiler*: __ 



Ren kills Han, who Rey and Finn had spent much of the movie getting to know.  The fight happens as the characters, and the audience, are all still reeling from that event.  Ren is coping with a blaster wound and the shock of killing his own father.  The whole battle is incredibly emotionally charged.  Finn takes on Ren first, and goes down pretty quickly.  We actually see expressions of pain on Finn's face from those lightsaber injuries, like he's actually being injured in a fight.  Once Finn goes down and Ren tries pulling the lightsaber only for Rey to catch it instead -- that's a dramatic moment that the TPM fight sorely lacked.  I don't care what anyone says about Rey developing her Force abilities too easily, it's a great moment.  The tension runs high through the whole fight.




The TPM lightsaber fight may be better choreographed.  But that doesn't make it a more interesting fight within the story than the TFA fight, any more than it does over the OT fights.


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## Lucaniel (Dec 23, 2015)

Stunna said:


> because Qui-Gon's role in the movie was to be a positive father figure in Anakin's life (the one he'd never had) and to show more of what the Jedi were _supposed_ to be. His death was inadvertently a contributing factor to Anakin falling to the Dark Side, because without his influence, Anakin was left in the care of Obi-Wan and the rest of the Jedi Order, who were failures as father figures/guardians, which led to Palpatine stepping into the role. And we all know how that turned out.



i guess i can see that argument

as it was portrayed in the prequels tho, was obi wan really a failure or was anakin just a gullible creep who was probably always gonna go bad


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## Stunna (Dec 23, 2015)

tbf Obi-Wan admitted in Episode III that he was a failure as a mentor to Anakin




but it's definitely a bit of both

bad writing OP


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 23, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> i guess i can see that argument
> 
> as it was portrayed in the prequels tho, was obi wan really a failure or was anakin just a gullible creep who was probably always gonna go bad



Can Anakin be a gullible creep because Obi failed?


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## Lucaniel (Dec 23, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> Can Anakin be a gullible creep because Obi failed?



failed to make him not gullible? idk if you can make someone not gullible, unless you just constantly lie to them and condition them to be able to notice deception

correct me if i'm wrong on this because it's been a long time since i subjected myself to rots, but didn't it take palpatine outright admitting to anakin that he was a sith lord, for anakin to realise that's what he was? anakin didn't notice something was up when palpatine told him to execute dooku without any trial, when palpatine started blabbing about the power of the dark side and darth plague and shit?


----------



## Fang (Dec 23, 2015)

Parallax said:


> Dis irony doe



Who you quoting fam?


----------



## Stunna (Dec 23, 2015)

Anakin had to practically be handed an invitation to the Dark Side before he snitched to Mace


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 23, 2015)

Stunna said:


> Anakin had to practically be handed an invitation to the Dark Side before he snitched to Mace



yeah, what can you really do with someone that retarded, y'know?

poor obi-wan


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## Fang (Dec 23, 2015)

Stunna said:


> because Qui-Gon's role in the movie was to be a positive father figure in Anakin's life (the one he'd never had) and to show more of what the Jedi were _supposed_ to be. His death was inadvertently a contributing factor to Anakin falling to the Dark Side, because without his influence, Anakin was left in the care of Obi-Wan and the rest of the Jedi Order, who were failures as father figures/guardians, which led to Palpatine stepping into the role. And we all know how that turned out.



Not quite

With Jinn out of the picture, Obi-Wan took up the burden of training Anakin regardless of what Yoda, Windu, and the rest of the High Council were going to allow or deny for his future as potential Jedi; Palpatine spends more then a decade between Episode I and Episode II grooming Anakin with gifts, playing at his ego and pride, and acting like a grandfather to him

And ultimately the biggest factor is Anakin is emotionally and mentally unstable; that's the same reason why Palpatine starts the dark side seduction act on him when Obi-Wan is sent to deal with Grievous on the other side of the galaxy, Yoda is at the wookiee homeworld and the only other pillar to keep him on the right side is Windu

The guy who has never gotten along with Anakin and had a huge gulf between the two even after Palpatine got him on the High Council as his representative

Tbh though the novelization makes it a lot better then the movie's screenplay does


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## Stunna (Dec 23, 2015)

Fang said:


> Not quite
> 
> With Jinn out of the picture, Obi-Wan took up the burden of training Anakin regardless of what Yoda, Windu, and the rest of the High Council were going to allow or deny for his future as potential Jedi


Which came off as a choice made out of obligation to the late Qui-Gon's wishes, not as a personal one made out of desire for Anakin's well-being. The way the movies illustrate Obi-Wan and Anakin's relationship, the latter was always a burden for the former, from the moment they met.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 23, 2015)

> Why am I supposed to care about him


because Qui-Gon was great and a true Jedi 

if the Jedi council were like him maybe Sheev would have never won 


but being played by Liam Neeson also helped


----------



## Violent by Design (Dec 23, 2015)

remember what qui gon said guys.


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## Stunna (Dec 23, 2015)

Violent by Design said:


> remember what qui gon said guys.


pls                   go


----------



## Gunners (Dec 23, 2015)

I liked Darth Maul's involvement in the Clone Wars. It was a nice way of highlighting why Obi Wan was Anakin's superior. He witnessed the love of his life get cut down but he didn't allow it to drive him to despair. 

Also thought the beating Sidious gave him was nice. 

[YOUTUBE]E8uXBdCIsrU[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Mider T (Dec 23, 2015)

Stunna said:


> tfw = that feel when
> 
> if I were talking about my face, I would have used mfw = my face when



Aren't you a little too short to be Mark Hamill?


----------



## Mikaveli (Dec 23, 2015)

Stunna said:


> tbf tho
> 
> any time Rey was vocally affirmed to being a capable person, it was preceded by us actually seeing it (her insistence on not needed to fold Finn's hand followed actually seeing her survive and fight on Jakku; her insistence to Han that she could take care of herself followed her actually pragmatically repairing the Falcon and save Finn from the monsters Han was smuggling, etc.)



it was pretty dumb. one of the moments that made me roll my eyes


----------



## Fang (Dec 23, 2015)

Stunna said:


> Which came off as a choice made out of obligation to the late Qui-Gon's wishes, not as a personal one made out of desire for Anakin's well-being. The way the movies illustrate Obi-Wan and Anakin's relationship, the latter was always a burden for the former, from the moment they met.



That's the initial theme, hell Obi-Wan calls Anakin a pathetic life-form similar to Jar-Jar when Jinn brings him back to the ship. But they had 13 almost 14 years between the end of TPM to RoTS.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 23, 2015)

Mider T said:


> Aren't you a little too short to be Mark Hamill?


Yes.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 23, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> failed to make him not gullible? idk if you can make someone not gullible, unless you just constantly lie to them and condition them to be able to notice deception
> 
> correct me if i'm wrong on this because it's been a long time since i subjected myself to rots, but didn't it take palpatine outright admitting to anakin that he was a sith lord, for anakin to realise that's what he was? anakin didn't notice something was up when palpatine told him to execute dooku without any trial, when palpatine started blabbing about the power of the dark side and darth plague and shit?



Yes, you can raise someone to not be gullible.

And like Fang said, Palpatine played the long game with Anakin, the movies just didn't develop relationships well at all.


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## Mikaveli (Dec 23, 2015)

Stunna said:


> Let's be honest here:
> 
> Single-handily defeating _all_ of Luke's other students (who had presumably been training under Luke for just as long, if not longer, than Kylo had) is an impressive feat, regardless of his lineage.



Pretty sure they said "murdered" not defeated. I doubt he bested them all in normal combat


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## Mikaveli (Dec 23, 2015)

Doubt leads to the dark side which gives me clarity


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## Lucaniel (Dec 23, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> Yes, you can raise someone to not be gullible.
> 
> And like Fang said, Palpatine played the long game with Anakin, the movies just didn't develop relationships well at all.



he played the "blurt obvious hints because my mark is retarded" game


----------



## Orochibuto (Dec 23, 2015)

Gunners said:


> How do you know Luke trained him to use a lightsaber? As I mentioned in my previous post, he was sent to train with Luke because he had issues. With that in mind, I think focusing on discipline and serenity would be the number one priority.
> 
> Moreover, I think the differing approaches to using the force could play a role in his performance. If he had been coached to clear his mind, let the force guide him, stay calm etc. The sensation of aggressively drawing on the force, channelling his anger and so on could clash with what is instinctive to him. I think it would be like switching the buttons around on a controller.
> 
> You've had non force sensitive getting the better of Jedi. I don't think Rey toppling and injured and unstable Ren is an issue. We don't even know how powerful he is at the moment.



Kylo at the very least, at the very least, has to have the level of a Republic Jedi Knight and I dare to say he is at the level of an average master.

He is supposed to eventually match Vader.

No matter how you see it, Rey with zero training and less than 1 day using the Force, is at least as strong as guys that had years of training under their belt.

That is not to mention, how she seems to be capable of channeling outright technical knowledgement from the Force and become an expert in mechanics, piloting, etc. I know Force intuition was a thing since the OT and remained in the PT, but outright being able to channel knowledgement from the Force? It is something as far as I know (at least regarding the movie universe) has never been achieved.


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## MartialHorror (Dec 23, 2015)

Two points

1) Jinn might've not have kept Anakin from dark side, as he himself was prone to using questionable methods to get the desired result- something that the remainder of the trilogy criticizes whenever Anakin or Mace does so. This wouldn't have helped Anakin in the long run.

2) The prequels had more choreographed fights, but that was a problem. No one felt like they were actually trying to kill each-other and most of the movements were wasteful. In the original trilogy, the saber duels had the characters being more tactful and/or aggressive, as if they were trying to hurt each-other. TFA was more akin to that.


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## Fang (Dec 23, 2015)

I don't see any issues with the duel between Obi-Wan and Maul after Jinn bites the dust


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## Orochibuto (Dec 23, 2015)

MartialHorror said:


> Two points
> 
> 1) Jinn might've not have kept Anakin from dark side, as he himself was prone to using questionable methods to get the desired result- something that the remainder of the trilogy criticizes whenever Anakin or Mace does so. This wouldn't have helped Anakin in the long run.



Jinn was prone to using questionable methods, per the Jedi council definition of questionable, not actual questionable stuff. He did what had to be done, but again when he did questionable stuff, what really meant was that he broke the Jedi rules, not that he was per se doing something wrong.

A point of the prequels, is that it shows that the Jedi Council was becoming increasingly corrupt, or at least archaic and did not worked for the modern galaxy, which ultimately did not worked for Anakin either.


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 23, 2015)

Fang said:


> I don't see any issues with the duel between Obi-Wan and Maul after Jinn bites the dust



Maul had the high ground!


----------



## Fang (Dec 23, 2015)

Yeah he lost because of jobbing but I mean the actual final fight where it bogged down to Maul vs Obi-Wan in the reactor control room was a good fight; visceral, aggressive, and emotional fighting

I don't see the issue with it


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## Hidd3N_NiN (Dec 23, 2015)

Orochibuto said:


> Kylo at the very least, at the very least, has to have the level of a Republic Jedi Knight and I dare to say he is at the level of an average master.
> 
> He is supposed to eventually match Vader.
> 
> ...



Not sure where you're getting that from. In terms of their duel, she was running from Kylo Ren for the majority of the fight and swinging wildly until the end when she 'awoke' and in that instance surprised Kylo Ren and physically overpowered him before he could react. And of course, his injuries, his trauma, etc made him weaker at that moment. In a full 1 on 1 duel where he is at his best, Kylo Ren would still have defeated Rey at that point in time.

In terms of force usage Rey appears to be way more sensitive to the force than Kylo Ren so her being more resistant to his Mind tricks is justifiable at least. Not to mention the hints that she may have received Jedi training before. We just don't know the details until the next movie.

I'm not sure how you thought Rey's mechanical expertise and piloting came from the Force considering she's a Parts Scavenger. Seems like you didn't like the fact that she has strong Force sensitivity and decided that all her character strengths must be granted by the Force. As we saw in the beginning of the film, she's a parts scavenger. Obviously she would have had a technical knowledge of how machines work and how to use them. She wasn't randomly tearing things apart in the wrecked Star Destroyer, she knew exactly what she was looking for to salvage. Part of the job description also means she would have learnt how to pilot starships too. 

I find it funny no one gave any complaints about Anakin and Luke being expert pilots, expert mechanics and being strong in the force but people seem to be complaining so much about Rey.


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## Stunna (Dec 23, 2015)

Hidd3N_NiN said:


> I find it funny no one gave any complaints about Anakin and Luke being expert pilots, expert mechanics and being strong in the force but people seem to be complaining so much about Rey.


Both Anakin and Luke were piloting from young ages/established to have been competent pilots prior to the beginning of their on-screen piloting escapades. Plus, literally no one has complained about Rey being a competent mechanic; people _have_ complained about her being able to operate the Falcon better than Han, in certain regards.

Also, neither Anakin nor Luke gained competence over using the Force to the extent that Rey has as quickly as she has.

In short: neither Anakin nor Luke were Mary Sues.


----------



## Clowe (Dec 23, 2015)

[YOUTUBE]TNXRZd5vkdo[/YOUTUBE]


*Spoiler*: __ 



At 20.30, ''Face me, Cousin!''




You done goofed Disney.

GG.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 23, 2015)

Really?


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 23, 2015)

Oh shit


----------



## Wan (Dec 23, 2015)

Stunna said:


> Both Anakin and Luke were piloting from young ages/established to have been competent pilots prior to the beginning of their on-screen piloting escapades. Plus, literally no one has complained about Rey being a competent mechanic; people _have_ complained about her being able to operate the Falcon better than Han, in certain regards.
> 
> Also, neither Anakin nor Luke gained competence over using the Force to the extent that Rey has as quickly as she has.
> 
> In short: neither Anakin nor Luke were Mary Sues.



When was Luke established to be a pilot, exactly?  He's a moisture farmer.  Him climbing into an X-Wing at the end of A New Hope can be seen as kind of out of left field without any setup.


----------



## RAGING BONER (Dec 23, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



yeah, i suspected halfway through the movie that Luke's waifu left her on Jakku, mind wiped her, then got killed by Imperial agents before returning to Luke.


----------



## Kuromaku (Dec 23, 2015)

For a production that didn't want leaks getting out, a lot of legit leaks managed to get out and spoil almost the entire movie. And now that video linked above...



Also, I didn't really mind Rey suddenly piloting the Falcon due to the story itself pointing out the sheer oddness of the whole enterprise when Rey and Finn are congratulating each other. She even made a couple of mistakes during her first flight, just as Luke's first go in an X-Wing almost led to him crashing because he descends too low at one point (I recall that moment pretty well solely by virtue of having them indicate the close call using a stock thunder crash sound effect).


----------



## Stunna (Dec 23, 2015)

Wan said:


> When was Luke established to be a pilot, exactly?  He's a moisture farmer.  Him climbing into an X-Wing at the end of A New Hope can be seen as kind of out of left field without any setup.


There are multiple lines of dialogue that reference his experience and talent as a pilot.

It's a case of telling and not showing, but it's there.


----------



## Hidd3N_NiN (Dec 23, 2015)

Stunna said:


> Both Anakin and Luke were piloting from young ages/established to have been competent pilots prior to the beginning of their on-screen piloting escapades. Plus, literally no one has complained about Rey being a competent mechanic; people _have_ complained about her being able to operate the Falcon better than Han, in certain regards.
> 
> Also, neither Anakin nor Luke gained competence over using the Force to the extent that Rey has as quickly as she has.
> 
> In short: neither Anakin nor Luke were Mary Sues.



What piloting stunts did Rey demonstrate that puts her piloting of the Falcon above Han? All she did was evade some TIE fighters which both Han and Lando have demonstrated they are just as capable of doing. The only thing she demonstrated being better than Han was that she was a better mechanic than Han which makes sense because she was a Parts scavenger and had more technical knowledge of space ship parts. 

Anakin sure, we saw that's he was a good pilot but again with the same logic, you are saying its more realistic that Anakin as a young child was such an amazing pilot that he could participate and survive a space battle than an adult with pilot training being able to dodge a couple of TIE fighters? And where do we see that its established that Luke was a good pilot since he was young? All we know of him in the beginning of ANH was that he has piloting skills and was looking to join the Imperial academy. Suddenly once he reaches Yavin, he's fighting in a space battle. No where is it established that he's been an expert pilot since he was young yet Luke somehow gets a free pass.

Again until the next movie reveals more of her backstory, we don't really know why she could learn (or possibly remember) her Force abilities. If she was indeed a survivor from Kylo Ren's massacre of the new generation of Jedi Knights then it means she already had Jedi training and all she did was remember her training which was suppressed. Secondly, she displayed one feat of telekinesis and being able to resist a Mind trick. Just like Anakin since young has had the Force give him enhanced reflexes to pod race against aliens (They said it was impossible for humans to pod race because their reflexes are no where close enough to handle all the complexities but Anakin has had built in Jedi reflexes since he was born which allowed him to podrace but I guess that's not OP enough coz he's not swinging lightsabers around huh?). Also Yoda after a couple of weeks training with Luke seemed convinced that Luke should have been able to pull out an X-Wing if he believed in the Force. Rey had her belief moment and for one moment, pulled a lightsaber. That's all she did. If she started flipping around like a ninja and using force chokes or force pulls after that, I would agree that her strength with the force seemed too excessive. All 3 of them have had examples where the Force could allow them to do potentially OP things, we just never saw it with Luke because he didn't believe (even though Yoda was convinced he could) and Anakin's was more subtle.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 23, 2015)

Hidd3N_NiN said:


> The only thing she demonstrated being better than Han was that she was a better mechanic than Han which makes sense because she was a Parts scavenger and had more technical knowledge of space ship parts.


This is what I meant.

And yes, she's a mechanic, but it's still a pill to swallow that this nobody from Jakku can understand what makes the _Millennium Falcon_ tick better than _Han Solo._



> Anakin sure, we saw that's he was a good pilot but again with the same logic, you are saying its more realistic that Anakin as a young child was such an amazing pilot that he could participate and  survive a space battle than an adult with pilot training being able to dodge a couple of TIE fighters?


Anakin's participation in the space battle at the end of TPM was stupid; I'm not defending that.

My point is, it was at least established before he started pulling tricks in a ship that he had experience piloting before.



> And where do we see that its established that Luke was a good pilot since he was young? All we know of him in the beginning of ANH was that he has piloting skills and was looking to join the Imperial academy. Suddenly once he reaches Yavin, he's fighting in a space battle. No where is it established that he's been an expert pilot since he was young yet Luke somehow gets a free pass.


It isn't shown, but Luke's experience as a pilot is referred to a couple times in ANH before he finally crawls into the cockpit of a ship in the climax.



> Again until the next movie reveals more of her backstory, we don't really know why she could learn (or possibly remember) her Force abilities--


"We _might_ learn more _next_ movie" is not a defense for _this_ movie, and I'd appreciate it if people would stop repeating it like it is one.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 23, 2015)

I like the idea of her being a jedi who was mindwiped.

Not saying that will occur, but it's certainly something interesting to explore.


----------



## RAGING BONER (Dec 23, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> I like the idea of her being a jedi who was mindwiped.
> 
> Not saying that will occur, but it's certainly something interesting to explore.



and certainly not without precedent...

it's how they made Revan a schizophrenic


----------



## Kuromaku (Dec 23, 2015)

Still, if Rey is supposed to have received past Jedi training, but was mindwiped, wouldn't it have been better to provide more hints than just that flashback vision? With the _Bourne_ series, we at least got a lot of details that justified his skills, but here, it was barely hinted at. Saying, it'll all be explained in the next movie sucks given that one, movies are supposed to stand on their own to some extent, and two, point one is even more important if said movie is supposed to be the one that revives interest in the franchise as a viable moneymaking machine.


----------



## Hidd3N_NiN (Dec 23, 2015)

Stunna said:


> "We _might_ learn more _next_ movie" is not a defense for _this_ movie, and I'd appreciate it if people would stop repeating it like it is one.



I would like to point out that people give Anakin a lot of slack for his abilities because we already know his future. Imagine if you had never seen a Star Wars movie, you don't know who Darth Vader is and that Anakin will one day be Darth Vader. 

You watch Star Wars Episode One this is what you can conclude about Ten-year old Anakin by the end of the movie. 

Anakin Skywalker is a genius Star pilot who has survived a huge space battle where several adult and more experienced star pilots were killed. Also was the deciding factor in destroying the droid control stations which ended the ground battles.

Anakin is a genius mechanic who has built his own robot at a young age of Ten. (Sorry I don't remember his actual age then, its around ten?)

Anakin is extremely strong in the force as pointed out by several Jedi Masters. Strong enough to concern all of them. Also conveniently is the Chosen One in an Ancient Prophecy!

Anakin is the only human in the galaxy that can podrace because he has reflexes no other human has.

Anakin is now being trained to be a space wizard which means he's going to be as strong or stronger than the 2 (or 3 if you count Darth Maul) space wizards we just saw in the entire movie flipping around like Ninjas, wielding a laser sword that can cut through everything like butter. And an elderly space wizard has just told us that he could possibly be the strongest space wizard to ever live.

I don't know about you but I think that fits the very definition of a Mary Stu. But everybody gives it a free pass because everyone has the *knowledge* of knowing that in the future, he does become that OP character. People have had 10-20 years and 3 movies of his story to appreciate that since he's so strong when he's older, its no problem that he appears OP when he first appears in Episode One.

Rey is being established in this being the first of a new trilogy of movies to be quite competent which I don't think is an issue. I would consider her a Mary Sue if let's say Finn was the Jedi counterpart for this new trilogy and Rey suddenly appears in Episode 8 or 9 and is basically a better Jedi than both Finn or Kylo Ren. I don't think its unfair to wait until we see more of the story to see how Rey's abilities fit in.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 23, 2015)

Hidd3N_NiN said:


> I would like to point out that people give Anakin a lot of slack for his abilities because we already know his future.


And?**



> You watch Star Wars Episode One this is what you can conclude about Ten-year old Anakin by the end of the movie.
> 
> Anakin Skywalker is a genius Star pilot who has survived a huge space battle where several adult and more experienced star pilots were killed. Also was the deciding factor in destroying the droid control stations which ended the ground battles.


I've already made it clear that I think this was stupid. 



> Anakin is a genius mechanic who has built his own robot at a young age of Ten. (Sorry I don't remember his actual age then, its around ten?)


He's nine. A nine-year-old whiz kid who knows his way around with a wrench on account of growing up as a slave around junkyards is fine by me.

And iirc he did not build Threepio from _scratch_. He was a fix-up job.



> Anakin is extremely strong in the force as pointed out by several Jedi Masters. Strong enough to concern all of them.


He's got the potential, yes. His potential doesn't manifest in any way other than heightened senses until he's trained, though (unlike Rey.)



> Anakin is the only human in the galaxy that can podrace because he has reflexes no other human has.


Because of his great Force sensitivity, yes.



> Anakin is now being trained to be a space wizard which means he's going to be as strong or stronger than the 2 space wizards we just saw in the entire movie flipping around like Ninjas, wielding a laser sword that can cut through everything like butter. And an elderly space wizard has just told us that he could possibly be the strongest space wizard to ever live.
> 
> I don't know about you but I think that fits the very definition of a Mary Stu.


Nope. Because Anakin, as a character, is still flawed. Heavily. He has the potential for greatness, and he's very talented, but he still fucks up/gets his ass kicked/gets rebuffed. And he isn't the badass swordsman and Force-user we know him as in Episode III and beyond when we _first meet him._ He grows into that role, and steadily becomes more "competent" with each movie.

Geez, man; you're making me defend the character progression of Anakin Skywalker over here. 





> But everybody gives it a free pass because everyone has the *knowledge* of knowing that in the future, he does become that OP character. People have had 10-20 years and 3 movies of his story to appreciate that since he's so strong when he's older, its no problem that he appears OP when he first appears in Episode One.


Again, he isn't OP in Episode I. His Force abilities have barely been tapped into. He's exceedingly bright for his age, and he's precocious, but he's not a Mary Sue.



> Which is why this being a new trilogy of movies, I don't think its unfair to wait until we see more of the story to see how Rey's abilities fit in.


Whether it's "fair" or not is irrelevant; Anakin's situation and Rey's are not the same.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 23, 2015)

I will, however, meet you halfway and concede that Anakin's at his Mary Sue-est as a child in TPM.


----------



## Fang (Dec 23, 2015)

Hidd3N_NiN said:


> I would like to point out that people give Anakin a lot of slack for his abilities because we already know his future. Imagine if you had never seen a Star Wars movie, you don't know who Darth Vader is and that Anakin will one day be Darth Vader.



So what?



> Anakin Skywalker is a genius Star pilot who has survived a huge space battle where several adult and more experienced star pilots were killed. Also was the deciding factor in destroying the droid control stations which ended the ground battles.



He gets lucky getting into the Trade Federation main control ship, blowing it up, and flying out while Artoo assisted him the whole way. The story already supported his natural piloting affinity by being an expert podracer despite being both a human and a 10 year old boy thanks to his instinctive use of the Force to enhance and augment his reactions and reflexes.  


> Anakin is a genius mechanic who has built his own robot at a young age of Ten. (Sorry I don't remember his actual age then, its around ten?)



He built C3PO over an unknown period of time and he wasn't even complete when shown in Episode 1. Hardly the same context you can use with Rey and knowing what to fix on the Falcon.

Its like saying its okay for some busboy who works for an expert line chef that somehow means it justified if said waiter ends up being a super chef.



> Anakin is extremely strong in the force as pointed out by several Jedi Masters. Strong enough to concern all of them. Also conveniently is the Chosen One in an Ancient Prophecy!



>conveniently



> Anakin is the only human in the galaxy that can podrace because he has reflexes no other human has.



Because of the Force. However he wasn't throwing Jedi Mind-Tricks, reverse mind-reading, or telekinesis in Episode I right after meeting Qui-Gon Jinn or interacting with the High Council on Coruscant days later.



> Anakin is now being trained to be a space wizard which means he's going to be as strong or stronger than the 2 (or 3 if you count Darth Maul) space wizards we just saw in the entire movie flipping around like Ninjas, wielding a laser sword that can cut through everything like butter. And an elderly space wizard has just told us that he could possibly be the strongest space wizard to ever live.



This isn't even a rebuttal, this is a lack of suspension of disbelief.



> I don't know about you but I think that fits the very definition of a Mary Stu. But everybody gives it a free pass because everyone has the *knowledge* of knowing that in the future, he does become that OP character. People have had 10-20 years and 3 movies of his story to appreciate that since he's so strong when he's older, its no problem that he appears OP when he first appears in Episode One.



You don't know what a Mary Sue is. Anakin doesn't do anything outside of his limitations established in TPM with piloting the N-1 starfighter and only dodging being shot down before getting lucky with Artoo and blowing the TF ship from inside out.



> Rey is being established in this being the first of a new trilogy of movies to be quite competent which I don't think is an issue. I would consider her a Mary Sue if let's say Finn was the Jedi counterpart for this new trilogy and Rey suddenly appears in Episode 8 or 9 and is basically a better Jedi than both Finn or Kylo Ren. I don't think its unfair to wait until we see more of the story to see how Rey's abilities fit in.



>Luke is saved 6 to 7 times in ANH
>Rey saves herself all of the single time she's temporarily captured
>Luke needs his hand held by Obi-Wan's Force Ghost and saved by Han's last minute return to nail the two meter wide thermal exhaust port on the Death Star's trench
>Rey can utilize telekinesis and Jedi Mind-Tricks half a day after learning about the Force from a talking plot device Yoda expy

You arguments don't hold water.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 23, 2015)

**


----------



## Hidd3N_NiN (Dec 23, 2015)

Stunna said:


> And?**
> Nope. Because Anakin, as a character, is still flawed. Heavily. He has the potential for greatness, and he's very talented, but he still fucks up/gets his ass kicked/gets rebuffed. And he isn't the badass swordsman and Force-user we know him as in Episode III and beyond when we _first meet him._ He grows into that role, and steadily becomes more "competent" with each movie.
> 
> Geez, man; you're making me defend the character progression of Anakin Skywalker over here.



This is exactly the crux of it, you're defending his character using 6 movies of built-up story. If you look just at Episode One, Anakin's is introduced to have have some ridiculously OP abilities and accomplishments but everyone is fine with it.



> Again, he isn't OP in Episode I. His Force abilities have barely been tapped into. He's exceedingly bright for his age, and he's precocious, but he's not a Mary Sue.
> 
> Whether it's "fair" or not is irrelevant; Anakin's situation and Rey's are not the same.



Just like how Rey isn't OP in Episode VII either, she barely awakens her abilities and only really has 2 feats of Force usage. Both Anakin and Luke also got their shining moment of untapped Force potential feats too. 

You mention that Anakin doesn't become a badass swordsman and force user until later but that's not an issue here. Yes, its one of the next set of skills he learns later but he does already have his piloting strengths, mechanic strengths, force destiny stuff, space war hero all laid out by the end of Episode One. 

At the end of Episode VII, this is what Rey is.

Rey is a competent Melee fighter (though not enough to properly defeat Kylo Ren in a true 1 on 1 fight if he were in top condition)

Rey has potentially higher Force sensitivity than Kylo Ren (Its not established she's the best or potentially the strongest in history, just that she's stronger than Kylo Ren who was also not established as being some super elite  strong Force user. We don't know the circumstances behind the Jedi massacre yet. And that she may or may not have had prior training beforehand based on her flashbacks)

Rey has good piloting skills.

Rey is a great mechanic (At least better than Han Solo).

So how is this somehow more Mary Sue than this? 



> You watch Star Wars Episode One this is what you can conclude about Ten-year old Anakin by the end of the movie.
> 
> Anakin Skywalker is a genius Star pilot who has survived a huge space battle where several adult and more experienced star pilots were killed. Also was the deciding factor in destroying the droid control stations which ended the ground battles.
> 
> ...



You seem to be giving Anakin a free pass for his skills just because he can't physically fight properly in Episode One while Rey can. Which I don't think should be the defining factor of what makes a character a Mary Sue or not in Star Wars.


----------



## Wan (Dec 23, 2015)

Stunna said:


> There are multiple lines of dialogue that reference his experience and talent as a pilot.
> 
> It's a case of telling and not showing, but it's there.



That's pretty much what I'm getting at -- there's no showing.  I don't have much of a problem with them jumping straight to the showing early on in TFA with Rey being a pilot.  She's a pilot.  I don't think it needs explaining beyond that.


Stunna said:


> This is what I meant.
> 
> And yes, she's a mechanic, but it's still a pill to swallow that this nobody from Jakku can understand what makes the _Millennium Falcon_ tick better than _Han Solo._



Rey was at least familiar with the modifications that the junkyard owner had made to the Falcon, while Han wouldn't be.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 23, 2015)

Wan said:


> That's pretty much what I'm getting at -- there's no showing.  I don't have much of a problem with them jumping straight to the showing early on in TFA with Rey being a pilot.  She's a pilot.  I don't think it needs explaining beyond that.


Her piloting and mechanic skills were the least of my problems...on their own, at least. I can buy that she'd be capable at both.

It was the principle of her showing up Han in something regarding the Falcon that is Mary Sue-ish.


----------



## Rukia (Dec 23, 2015)

Anyone that has any criticism, even a speck of criticism for this movie.  Please let me know so that I can add you to my ignore list immediately.


----------



## Fang (Dec 23, 2015)

Rukia said:


> Anyone that has any criticism, even a speck of criticism for this movie.  Please let me know so that I can add you to my ignore list immediately.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 23, 2015)

Hidd3N_NiN said:


> This is exactly the crux of it, you're defending his character using 6 movies of built-up story. If you look just at Episode One, Anakin's is introduced to have have some ridiculously OP abilities and accomplishments but everyone is fine with it.


Um, no I'm not? I was talking about the character of Anakin as a whole as shown in the prequel movies.

If we're talking about Anakin exclusively in TPM, I already explained why his talents as a pod racer and mechanic were understandable, and agreed that he was still poorly handled as a character in his first appearance.

Just because he's mishandled in his first appearance doesn't excuse the same thing being done with Rey. So you're beating a dead horse.



> Just like how Rey isn't OP in Episode VII either, she barely awakens her abilities and only really has 2 feats of Force usage. Both Anakin and Luke also got their shining moment of untapped Force potential feats too.


Neither Anakin nor Luke were able to use telekinesis or anything Rey did until after years of training.

You've either got bad memory or you're dishonest.



> You mention that Anakin doesn't become a badass swordsman and force user until later but that's not an issue here. Yes, its one of the next set of skills he learns later but he does already have his piloting strengths, mechanic strengths, force destiny stuff, space war hero all laid out by the end of Episode One.


This has already been addressed.



> At the end of Episode VII, this is what Rey is.
> 
> Rey is a competent Melee fighter (though not enough to properly defeat Kylo Ren in a true 1 on 1 fight if he were in top condition)
> 
> ...


She's also near-instantly beloved by every hero she meets, barely has any discernible flaws, and is only compromised only _once_ in the entire movie.

pls just drop this, dawg


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 23, 2015)

Bye, Rukia


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## Rukia (Dec 23, 2015)

So good that the Critics Choice Awards broke every single rule in their charter to accommodate the film.


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## Hidd3N_NiN (Dec 24, 2015)

Fang said:


> So what?



By having prior knowledge of how a character is going to develop in the future especially when he is known for some rather powerful set of abilities later on. It allows you to more easily accept that the character already having some of those powerful abilities right at the beginning is totally balanced because you know he'll have them later on anyway. 

However if all you know of Anakin from the first movie he is introduced in are the set of abilities he already has, I would find that is cause to consider him a Mary Sue too.



> He gets lucky getting into the Trade Federation main control ship, blowing it up, and flying out while Artoo assisted him the whole way. The story already supported his natural piloting affinity by being an expert podracer despite being both a human and a 10 year old boy thanks to his instinctive use of the Force to enhance and augment his reactions and reflexes.
> 
> 
> >conveniently
> ...



You seem to be totally fine with a lot of luck and a coincidental set of fortunate events that occur for Anakin as well as the Force helping Anakin accomplish certain things but when it happens to Rey, you think its a problem.



> Because of the Force. However he wasn't throwing Jedi Mind-Tricks, reverse mind-reading, or telekinesis in Episode I right after meeting Qui-Gon Jinn or interacting with the High Council on Coruscant days later.



Neither was Rey doing that after excaping.



> >Luke is saved 6 to 7 times in ANH
> >Rey saves herself all of the single time she's temporarily captured



So what? Its not like she broke out using Force powers blasting away at everyone and mind controlling everyone she met. She used her Mind Trick once after seeing Kylo Ren perform it.



> >Luke needs his hand held by Obi-Wan's Force Ghost and saved by Han's last minute return to nail the two meter wide thermal exhaust port on the Death Star's trench



By that logic then Rey needed to be helped by Finn to fight off Kylo Ren and injure him slightly and then experiencing a traumatic event where she thinks Finn is dead before she awakens the Force in her to surpirise counterattack Kylo Ren.



> >Rey can utilize telekinesis and Jedi Mind-Tricks half a day after learning about the Force from a talking plot device Yoda expy
> 
> You arguments don't hold water.



She did it once after several tries of experimentation and never figured out how to do it again on her way out. Did Luke suddenly become a master of aiming and believing in the Force in ESB and ROTJ after his clutch moment of Force intervention at the end of ANH?


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## Hidd3N_NiN (Dec 24, 2015)

Stunna said:


> Neither Anakin nor Luke were able to use telekinesis or anything Rey did until after years of training.



Luke was levitating rocks after a few weeks of training with Yoda on Dagobah.




> She's also near-instantly beloved by every hero she meets, barely has any discernible flaws, and is only compromised only _once_ in the entire movie.
> 
> pls just drop this, dawg



In that regard I will agree with you but the same could also be said of Luke Skywalker whom Han warmed up to quickly after he showed his skill with blowing up TIE fighters and Leia quickly trusting him after he says he'll break her out.


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## Fang (Dec 24, 2015)

Rukia said:


> So good that the Critics Choice Awards broke every single rule in their charter to accommodate the film.







Hidd3N_NiN said:


> By having prior knowledge of how a character is going to develop in the future especially when he is known for some rather powerful set of abilities later on. It allows you to more easily accept that the character already having some of those powerful abilities right at the beginning is totally balanced because you know he'll have them later on anyway.



That's not my problem. Your inability to suspend disbelief is a subjective turn here, not an objective one. No one is buying it.



> However if all you know of Anakin from the first movie he is introduced in are the set of abilities he already has, I would find that is cause to consider him a Mary Sue too.



None of that remotely establishes him as a Mary Sue. He has little bearing on the overall plot progression or story, his involvement in the Battle of Naboo is incidental and his strength to the Force does not make him a flawless character in any way in TPM.

No one would rightly call this Suedom with what he did.



> You seem to be totally fine with a lot of luck and a coincidental set of fortunate events that occur for Anakin as well as the Force helping Anakin accomplish certain things but when it happens to Rey, you think its a problem.



None of it compares to a girl whose never heard of Jedi or knew what the Force is having literally less then a fully day pass between her meeting Maz, the exposition plot device to suddenly being able to use telepathy, Jedi Mind Tricks and Telekinetic powers at will.



> Neither was Rey doing that after excaping.



But she did do that. When the plot called for her to have a lightsaber, she suddenly manifests the Force to telekinetically pull it to her hand. She also ultimately was able to use one of the most advanced Force powers with the Mind Trick ability, out of the blue while resisting before hand Kylo Ren's mental mind probing and going past his own mental defenses into his head.

Try again.




> So what? Its not like she broke out using Force powers blasting away at everyone and mind controlling everyone she met. She used her Mind Trick once after seeing Kylo Ren perform it.



How does Han say it? "That's not how the Force works." Every time she's threatened or in danger, she displays abilities and powers that it took Luke over 3 years to do. Its exactly like that, when she needs the Force its there to remove any handicap from her in the story when she's countered resistance or danger.

Hell even outside of the Force she does this showing up Han when it comes to repairing or diagnosing the Falcon. She's essentially flawless and perfect throughout the movie.



> By that logic then Rey needed to be helped by Finn to fight off Kylo Ren and injure him slightly and then experiencing a traumatic event where she thinks Finn is dead before she awakens the Force in her to surpirise counterattack Kylo Ren.



Except Finn played no part in Rey's earlier repeated feats with the Force, so this argument still holds no water. 



> She did it once after several tries of experimentation



No one gives a damn. She suddenly knows about mind-tricks from mentally trying to resist Ren's mind probe? Out of thin air like a veteran Jedi Master? Where Jinn failed with all his decades of experience and power to mentally influence Watto?

Not reasonably justified in anyway there.



> Did Luke suddenly become a master of aiming and believing in the Force in ESB and ROTJ after his clutch moment of Force intervention at the end of ANH?



What does "master of aiming" mean when the story established he spent his youth on Tatooine blowing up small rodents at high speeds? How does Luke having 4 years of self-tutoring and Yoda and Obi-Wan to guide him justify Rey's overpowered use of advanced Force powers within a day of learning about it?

Nothing your claiming is valid.



Hidd3N_NiN said:


> Luke was levitating rocks after a few weeks of training with Yoda on Dagobah.



Three years of self-training before meeting Yoda between ANH and TESB. TESB novelization also establishes Luke had access to training manuals and data left behind by Obi-Wan between then and there, so how are you honestly trying to claim 3 years = 1 day to compare Luke and Rey?



> In that regard I will agree with you but the same could also be said of Luke Skywalker whom Han warmed up to quickly after he showed his skill with blowing up TIE fighters and Leia quickly trusting him after he says he'll break her out.



You mean the same Han who told Luke not to get cocky for shooting down a single Tie-Fighter? Yeah sure, you have no idea what you are talking about honestly here.


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## Stunna (Dec 24, 2015)

Hidd3N_NiN said:


> Luke was levitating rocks after a few weeks of training with Yoda on Dagobah.


You're making my case for me, dawg.

Assuming Luke trained with Yoda for a few weeks, that's still a few _weeks_ it took him to levitate rocks.

And that's after _three years_ of training alone after the events of ANH.



> In that regard I will agree with you but the same could also be said of Luke Skywalker whom Han warmed up to quickly after he showed his skill with blowing up TIE fighters and Leia quickly trusting him after he says he'll break her out.


"Warmed up to" is a stretch; the two were consistently bickering with one another up until Han returned at the end of the film and saved the Rebellion.

And Leia trusted him since he said he came with Obi-Wan Kenobi, but even then, the two didn't get along right off the bat.

Come on, man.


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## Fang (Dec 24, 2015)

Just a head's up:

Luke spent a month training with Yoda on TESB before running to Cloud City to fight Vader and save his friends.


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## Gilgamesh (Dec 24, 2015)

Rey would have beat up the tuskans, saved her parents, beat up the aliens in the bar, fought Darth Vader instead of Obi, and WON, fucked Leia, talked to R2-D2 and learned the entire plot 5 minutes into the movie, kicked Han out of the millennium falcon and flew it herself, busted out of carbonite, mind tricked Jabba, made friends with the ewoks in a cute and quirky way, used a sniper blaster to shoot Bobo Fetts gun out of his hands etc


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## Hidd3N_NiN (Dec 24, 2015)

Fang said:


> That's not my problem. Your inability to suspend disbelief is a subjective turn here, not an objective one. No one is buying it.



I could say the exact same thing here with regards to your opinion about Rey.




> None of that remotely establishes him as a Mary Sue. He has little bearing on the overall plot progression or story, his involvement in the Battle of Naboo is incidental and his strength to the Force does not make him a flawless character in any way in TPM.



It may have been totally incidental that Anakin joined the space battle but he was completely crucial to the ending of the battle because his involvement ended the ground battle on Naboo, saving the Gungans and Padme's group who were moments from being defeated.

How was he not a flawless character in TPM? He saved the gang from being stuck on Tatooine by winning the podrace to get them the parts they needed to repair their ship.

When they return to Naboo, a series of events occur which lead him to get on a Starfighter and he participates in the Space battle, ultimately destroying the Droid Control Station and ending the ground battle on Naboo that nearly defeats both the Gungdans and Padme's group.




> None of it compares to a girl whose never heard of Jedi or knew what the Force is having literally less then a fully day pass between her meeting Maz, the exposition plot device to suddenly being able to use telepathy, Jedi Mind Tricks and Telekinetic powers at will.



Again exaggerating with the 'At will', she used them all once and all within moments of seeing Kylo Ren use these same skills. Once she realised (Kylo Ren also informed her) that she had force sensitivity, she figured that if he could do it, then why not try and use them too? 

And again until we know her backstory later, I'm willing to wait and see since she might already have been Force trained from young.




> But she did do that. When the plot called for her to have a lightsaber, she suddenly manifests the Force to telekinetically pull it to her hand. She also ultimately was able to use one of the most advanced Force powers with the Mind Trick ability, out of the blue while resisting before hand Kylo Ren's mental mind probing and going past his own mental defenses into his head.



When the plot called for Luke to have a way to destroy the Death Star, the Force suddenly shows him where to guide the missile into the exhaust ports.

Regarding the other stuff, see above. I would say Kylo Ren was unintentionally in some ways a teacher to Rey since she basically copied whatever he did in that moment.




> How does Han say it? "That's not how the Force works." Every time she's threatened or in danger, she displays abilities and powers that it took Luke over 3 years to do. Its exactly like that, when she needs the Force its there to remove any handicap from her in the story when she's countered resistance or danger.



THe force didn't seem to help her much when Kylo Ren kidnapped her.




> Except Finn played no part in Rey's earlier repeated feats with the Force, so this argument still holds no water.



Your point was that Luke was not a Mary Sue character because he needed help in that final moment to win. I was pointing out the same with Rey, she didn't just bust out a lightsaber and go to town with Kylo Ren. Finn had to help her. She saw him get cut down before she finally had the resolve to fight and awaken the force.




> No one gives a damn. She suddenly knows about mind-tricks from mentally trying to resist Ren's mind probe? Out of thin air like a veteran Jedi Master? Where Jinn failed with all his decades of experience and power to mentally influence Watto?
> 
> Not reasonably justified in anyway there.



First off, Quin Gon Jinn failed with Watto because his species is immune to Mind Tricks just like Jabba the Hutt.

I find it funny that all you mention is 'No One gives a damn' when you can't seem to rebut my point. She did her trick once just like the examples you gave about the others being able to do a clutch feat once due to guidance by the Force. She didn't suddenly become a master like how you enjoy exaggerating.

Kylo Ren started poking about in her head after telling her about her force sensitivity. She tries to resist and after several back and forth attempts, she realises she can try to do the same thing he is doing (which is due her having stronger Force senstivity than Kylo Ren, which if you say its fine that Anakin is naturally strong with the Force, then I don't see a problem that in this case at least. Rey has stronger Force potential than Kylo Ren) and she pushes him out and in that time, also manages to dig into his head a little. Once she realises how he's doing his mind tricks. She attempts to do it on the Storm trooper and only manages to do it after several tries, she didn't do it perfectly the first time nor does she suddenly start whipping it out everywhere like she's already mastered it.



> What does "master of aiming" mean when the story established he spent his youth on Tatooine blowing up small rodents at high speeds? How does Luke having 4 years of self-tutoring and Yoda and Obi-Wan to guide him justify Rey's overpowered use of advanced Force powers within a day of learning about it?



Because you keep exaggerating some kind of fantasy where Rey somehow has perfect control of Force abilities after she only manages to use them once while similarly choosing to ignore the example where Luke despite being relatively untrained also managed to pull out a great feat with the Force but that did not in any way make him an expert in doing it nor was he able to replicate it again until much later.




> Three years of self-training before meeting Yoda between ANH and TESB. TESB novelization also establishes Luke had access to training manuals and data left behind by Obi-Wan between then and there, so how are you honestly trying to claim 3 years = 1 day to compare Luke and Rey?



Again this goes back to we don't know much of Rey's backstory, wait for the next one. If the theory is true as is implied by her flashbacks. She may have had Jedi training when she was younger and thus would satisfy your 'years of training' comment.




> You mean the same Han who told Luke not to get cocky for shooting down a single Tie-Fighter? Yeah sure, you have no idea what you are talking about honestly here.



So what? Its not like he said 'Don't get cocky' and was mean to him the rest of the movie, he obviously said them in jest but after that point, they were clicking together pretty well already.

And I'm not saying Luke and Leia or Luke and Han became the best of friends instantly but they were friendly to each other in a relatively short amount of time just like Rey and Finn or Rey and Han.


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## Wan (Dec 24, 2015)

ITT people are mad cuz Rey isn't pathetic like Luke kinda was in ANH


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## Kuromaku (Dec 24, 2015)

It's kind of odd to me to bring this up, but in hindsight, after seeing Wan's set, I kinda wish that when writing Rey as the new central hero a la Luke, they could have approached her character in a slightly different way to avoid the Sue complaints.

If they were going to make her hypercompetent from the start, they could have used a similar approach to, of all things, _The Legend of Korra_. There, in contrast to the spiritual but somewhat untrained and dithering Aang, Korra is a bending prodigy who is lacking in the spiritual aspects and has a strong tendency to let her temper get the better of her.

If they were going to contrast Rey with Luke by having her start out far more competent in her ability to fight and use the Force, they probably should have given her more prominent (and real) flaws to work with and develop past over this new trilogy.


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## Stunna (Dec 24, 2015)

You don't need to be pathetic to be a well-rounded character/not a Mary Sue

but it sure is interesting when a character starts out that way and then grows into the badass


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## Wan (Dec 24, 2015)

Stunna said:


> You don't need to be pathetic to be a well-rounded character/not a Mary Sue
> 
> but it sure is interesting when a character starts out that way and then grows into the badass



I think you meant to say cliche


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## Stunna (Dec 24, 2015)

the bare concept of a character growing from a weakling into a badass is cliched?

yeah, okay


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## Hidd3N_NiN (Dec 24, 2015)

Kuromaku said:


> It's kind of odd to me to bring this up, but in hindsight, after seeing Wan's set, I kinda wish that when writing Rey as the new central hero a la Luke, they could have approached her character in a slightly different way to avoid the Sue complaints.
> 
> If they were going to make her hypercompetent from the start, they could have used a similar approach to, of all things, _The Legend of Korra_. There, in contrast to the spiritual but somewhat untrained and dithering Aang, Korra is a bending prodigy who is lacking in the spiritual aspects and has a strong tendency to let her temper get the better of her.
> 
> If they were going to contrast Rey with Luke by having her start out far more competent in her ability to fight and use the Force, they probably should have given her more prominent (and real) flaws to work with and develop past over this new trilogy.



I totally agree with you. For my part, I don't think Rey was a perfectly written character. There are flaws in her writing that I recognize. My issues are that people seem to be calling her out as a Mary Sue character for certain things which both Anakin and Luke would have been given a free pass for.

What I think would have eased Rey's progression better would be that they should have focused on Rey's reluctance to join in the adventure as she wants to return to Jakku. Make her more of the reluctant hero. The problem is that the film's pacing is too fast and pushes the characters through action scene to action scene without giving time for some characters to breath. So Rey's force using moments seem to come way too fast and it looks like she's improving at a much faster rate than anyone else. Also them leaving out her backstory for later is a legit problem in triggeringg these kinds of responses.


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## Wan (Dec 24, 2015)

Stunna said:


> the bare concept of a character growing from a weakling into a badass is cliched?
> 
> yeah, okay



It sure ain't interesting in itself.  Hack manga/anime, fantasy novels, etc use it all the time it doesn't suddenly make them interesting


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## Stunna (Dec 24, 2015)

nothing is interesting in itself, like how nothing is original in itself; the execution is what matters

the fact of the matter is, the template of "zero to hero" is used as often as it is because it tends to be more effective than having your protagonist start out as the "hero"; it's a tried and true formula

watching the character's growth/maturation makes the character more interesting and easier to sympathize with. This is elementary, yes, but it's the key to why a character like Luke is definitely better than a Rey (at least so far, to be fair), and why even an _Anakin Skywalker_ is more _interesting_


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## Fang (Dec 24, 2015)

Luke being the pretty much greatest single example of the hero's journey is what'd I'd take over Rey's example


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## Wan (Dec 24, 2015)

Stunna said:


> nothing is interesting in itself, like how nothing is original in itself; the execution is what matters
> 
> the fact of the matter is, the template of "zero to hero" is used as often as it is because it tends to be more effective than having your protagonist start out as the "hero"; it's a tried and true formula
> 
> watching the character's growth/maturation makes the character more interesting and easier to sympathize with. This is elementary, yes, but it's the key to why a character like Luke is definitely better than a Rey (at least so far, to be fair), and why even an _Anakin Skywalker_ is more _interesting_



If it's used too much without variation it gets boring, though.  

I liked that Rey didn't just have the same character beats as Luke, I thought her personality was plenty likable so I don't have a problem with the rest of the characters taking a shine to her, and I thought she had some pretty awesome moments.  I'm definitely interested in seeing where Rey's story goes from here.

Can't say the same things about Anakin at the end of TPM.


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## Turrin (Dec 24, 2015)

Stunna said:


> You're making my case for me, dawg.
> 
> Assuming Luke trained with Yoda for a few weeks, that's still a few _weeks_ it took him to levitate rocks.
> 
> And that's after _three years_ of training alone after the events of ANH.


Honestly feel like your missing the point Stunna. The movie intentionally wants the audience to question why Rey is so naturally gifted with the force; as that clearly ties into the mystery of Rey's origins. So we need to wait for that explanation before evaluating how realistic Rey's aptitude is. I mean if Rey is the result of Luke shacking up with another powerful force user; or perhaps conceived by the force like Anakin was; than that could easily explain her skills.

And I think most of Rey's skills can be explained. Anakin and Luke were both ridiculous naturally gifted pilots, so Rey's ability to pilot the falcon, doesn't bother, in-fact to me it's less sueish than Luke's piloting skills in ANH. Her mind raping a fodder storm trooper after multiple attempts, really isn't anything that crazy, as the dude was fodder. The two main moment you can make a case for her being Sue in, are her reverse the mind rape onto Ren and besting Ren in their final duel. However I do think both can be explained enough where they seem within reason

As far as Rey feats against Ren goes, I think that has a-lot more to do with Ren being in an enfeebled state primarily emotionally (due to the stuff w/ his dad and his internal conflict/insecurities), though also physically in the final duel than, Rey being that amazingly skilled.


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## Stunna (Dec 24, 2015)

Wan said:


> If it's used too much without variation it gets boring, though.
> 
> I liked that Rey didn't just have the same character beats as Luke, I thought her personality was plenty likable so I don't have a problem with the rest of the characters taking a shine to her, and I thought she had some pretty awesome moments.  I'm definitely interested in seeing where Rey's story goes from here.
> 
> Can't say the same things about Anakin at the end of TPM.



I'm not saying I want Rey's journey to be a clone of Luke's; I just want her to, y'know, _not_ be great at literally everything and have any opposition to her be superficial.

And to clarify, I find her _likable_, but that's in large part thanks to Ridley's performance. I can like her while still thinking she's a bad character.


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## Stunna (Dec 24, 2015)

Turrin, the intention of the screenwriters does not defend the flawed execution.


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## MartialHorror (Dec 24, 2015)

> *No one gives a damn. She suddenly knows about mind-tricks from mentally trying to resist Ren's mind probe? Out of thin air like a veteran Jedi Master? Where Jinn failed with all his decades of experience and power to mentally influence Watto?
> 
> Not reasonably justified in anyway there.*



This didn't bother me as my interpretation was
- Rey is unusually gifted, much like Luke and Anakin before her.
- Kylo Ren wasn't anywhere near as skilled as he seemed to be. He's shown to be an emotionally unstable brat who simply knows how to act like a bad-ass. Furthermore, I was also under the impression that he was weak willed. How else did Snoke poison him against his own family?

For those who complain about Rey defeating him, it should be remembered that he was emotionally compromised, had been shot in the side and was probably on the verge of passing out from the pain (why he kept hitting himself) and had just been in a fight with Finn.  

I'm sure Ren will get a major power upgrade in the sequel.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 24, 2015)

Those who defend Rey and try to use Anakin and Luke as an example. Forget that Anakin is supposed to be the Chosen One, birthed directly from The Force (albeit under the machinations of Plagueis) and the guy that is supposed to be the most powerful Force User ever in the history of the entire star wars universe and that Luke according to Lucas, has exactly the same potential as Anakin.

Rey however, in a single day of learning about the Force and having zero training at all with it, has feats that outperform a Luke that has years of training, this would be like if Luke defeated Vader in the Death Star. Rey in a single day is at least as strong as Anakin in EPII.

Luke and Anakin got their assed kicked in a regular basis, unlike Rey.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 24, 2015)

MartialHorror said:


> This didn't bother me as my interpretation was
> - *Rey is unusually gifted, much like Luke and Anakin before her.*
> - Kylo Ren wasn't anywhere near as skilled as he seemed to be. He's shown to be an emotionally unstable brat who simply knows how to act like a bad-ass. Furthermore, I was also under the impression that he was weak willed. How else did Snoke poison him against his own family?
> 
> For those who complain about Rey defeating him, it should be remembered that he was emotionally compromised, had been shot in the side and was probably on the verge of passing out from the pain (why he kept hitting himself)



That is precisely one of the problems here, her performance was so Sueish, that she outright has to be compared with a guy who has the potential to be the strongest force user the universe has ever seen and another guy who is his equal in potential.

Except, she even outperforms them in her showing.......

Unless Snoke is really Plagueis and he created Rey, that she can equal or surpass a guy that is as strong as 100% potential Anakin, is utterly ridiculous.



MartialHorror said:


> and had just been in a fight with Finn.



A fight with a guy who is fodder for force users 



MartialHorror said:


> I'm sure Ren will get a major power upgrade in the sequel.



And sadly........ so will Rey


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## Atlas (Dec 24, 2015)

Well, I enjoyed this film far more than any of the the prequels. That's really all I asked for from this movie. I'm disappointed in the ship diversity and familiar races. Many established/iconic races didn't seem to make it in the film, didn't feel right to me. Also, seems like Ties/X-wings were the only ships in the movie. Like, where are all the A-wings, Y-wings, Mon Calamari ships, etc.


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## James Bond (Dec 24, 2015)

Orochibuto said:


> Those who defend Rey and try to use Anakin and Luke as an example. Forget that Anakin is supposed *(Lucas confirmed he was the chosen one)* to be the Chosen One



He was prophesied to bring balance to the force and he did by evening the numbers as Sith's were heavily out numbered and that was the Chosen One's purpose.


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## Kuromaku (Dec 24, 2015)

JB-007 is proof that James Bond is vulnerable to Jedi mind tricks.

I think, to expand upon an earlier point I made, that the problem with Rey is that the writing failed to choose a properly undeveloped starting state for her to work forward from.

In the case of Luke, we had a kid who was good at heart with some slight character flaws who needed to finish off the last bits of his emotional growth (area where relatively little growth is needed) while also needing to develop his spiritual and physical skills greatly (areas where relatively more growth is needed).

If Kasdan and Abrams had wanted to contrast Rey with Luke, for example, they might have made it so that she was already highly capable in both her physical prowess and her ability to quickly master the Force (areas where relatively little growth is needed) while still clearly needing to grow as a person (areas where relatively more growth is needed).

However, perhaps out of lapses in writing female characters or an attempt to pander without considering quality as much as they should have, they made it so we have little in the way to work with for Rey to grow as either a person or as a Jedi. As a result, if she's not a Sue, she definitely straddles the line rather tightly, making her character less rewarding to watch for anyone either old enough to recognize subpar writing or with an IQ comprised of three digits.

Personally, I wouldn't mind a big twist in the next one that's crazy yet full of potential. Rey being Luke's daughter feels rather cliche, and I doubt Obi-Wan had any kids given that he was in many respects the ideal Jedi.

WARNING: BIZARRE AND FRANKLY KINDA STUPID SUGGESTION FOR FUTURE PLOT POINTS THAT I JUST PULLED OUT OF MY ASS MAY FOLLOW THIS SENTENCE. Maybe they could go back to some ideas in the prequels that weren't given much due in the movies, and make Rey an opposite sex clone of Anakin or something like that, if only to explain her crazy potential and rapid growth. Plus, it'd add a whole new dynamic to her relationship with Kylo Ren, while also giving the character an opportunity to come to terms with such a horrible truth and become her own person rather than following in the footsteps of the original Anakin and becoming another Vader.


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## tari101190 (Dec 24, 2015)

*lil white girl*

[YOUTUBE]nf2c_lY7QS0[/YOUTUBE]


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## James Bond (Dec 24, 2015)

Ah yes, the "aluminium falcon".


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## masamune1 (Dec 24, 2015)

If you have a spare 3 hours...these guys more or less nail my thoughts on the movie. 

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb206-zBZX0[/YOUTUBE]


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## Wilykat (Dec 24, 2015)

Some of you forgot one thing about Rey.  She was with someone for the first few years before being left on Jakku.

There is a possibility she was with Luke, notice how she seemed to get excited when Luke was mentioned even though it was "legend".  How she was good with staff which is like light saber without the energy.  And did no one notice she had a life sized doll of a rebel in her home (inside derelict AT-AT) which could be Luke.  And did anyone notice when she had the light saber, there was Luke sound track? When other had the light saber including Finn, I didn't hear the soundtrack.

She could have had some training under him early on, then had memory blocked and left on Jakku to hide her from Kylo after he went on rampage and killed many other padawan.


----------



## masamune1 (Dec 24, 2015)

Wilykat said:


> Some of you forgot one thing about Rey.  She was with someone for the first few years before being left on Jakku.
> 
> There is a possibility she was with Luke, notice how she seemed to get excited when Luke was mentioned even though it was "legend".  How she was good with staff which is like light saber without the energy.  And did no one notice she had a life sized doll of a rebel in her home (inside derelict AT-AT) which could be Luke.  And did anyone notice when she had the light saber, there was Luke sound track? When other had the light saber including Finn, I didn't hear the soundtrack.
> 
> She could have had some training under him early on, then had memory blocked and left on Jakku to hide her from Kylo after he went on rampage and killed many other padawan.



She was left on Jakku by someone she keeps expecting to come back for her. But we don't know who left her there or for how long or whatever. A popular theory (with some evidence) is that it was Kylo Ren himself. 

Highly unlikely it was Luke who left her there on this barren desert planet; kind of a dick if he did.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 24, 2015)

> Where Jinn failed with all his decades of experience and power to mentally influence Watto?



watto was from a species that was immune to mind tricks

dat heavy handed jew analogy


----------



## James Bond (Dec 24, 2015)

​
I know you guys are all serious and stuff but please rise for this sick flute star wars theme.


----------



## MartialHorror (Dec 24, 2015)

Orochibuto said:


> That is precisely one of the problems here, her performance was so Sueish, that she outright has to be compared with a guy who has the potential to be the strongest force user the universe has ever seen and another guy who is his equal in potential.
> 
> Except, she even outperforms them in her showing.......



To be fair, Luke never really had the opportunity to show the extent of his talent in episode 4. The only thing I can remember is him using the force to direct his aim when destroying the death star. Complaining about this to me is like complaining how all of the light saber wielders seem a lot more skilled in the prequels. This was only because choreography and SFX had advanced a lot more on a meta level. The reason why Rey does a lot more is that they can do more with the force thanks to improve technology and audiences expect these movies to get flashier and flashier. 

As for Anakin, he was dealing with Sith Masters. Count Dooku was an experienced Jedi before turning Sith. Kylo Ren is a novice, probably even less experienced than Darth Maul. If she did face Dooku or Vader, I doubt she would've been anywhere near successful.  


> Unless Snoke is really Plagueis and he created Rey, that she can equal or surpass a guy that is as strong as 100% potential Anakin, is utterly ridiculous.



Why not? Isn't the force trying to find balance? Isn't that why Anakin was supposed to be 'the one'? And Luke after him? Why wouldn't that job go to Rey after their failures? Admittedly Im rusty on the lore here, but I figure she is going to be the chosen one in some sort of capacity. After all, Snoke does make a big deal about 'an awakening'. 

Also, there is no evidence to suggest that Rey>=Luke, Anakin. The movie just did more to flesh out her powers. Once again, this is a stylistic decision. In 'Phantom Menace', Obi Wan and Jinn used the force to move really, really quickly in one scene and never use that power before. Palpatine can throw larger objects than himself in the prequels, but can't stop himself from being thrown by Vader and plunging to his death? You're reading too deeply into it. If 'Episode 4' was made today, more than likely Luke would be flying and doing all sorts of crazy shit. Because filmmakers can now do that with ease. 


> A fight with a guy who is fodder for force users



Considering how long Finn lasted, I was presuming that all Storm Troopers have a certain degree of training in the area (also, that one Storm Trooper even kicked Finn's ass). If not, then why are you making a big deal out of this? If Finn held his own with minimal (or zero) training, doesn't that prove Kylo Ren isn't that strong? Which makes Rey's victory less impressive? 



> And sadly........ so will Rey



I don't want this to come across as hostile, but do you understand how movies work? You don't seem to realize that sequels escalate the scale of the spectacle. You say that because Rey beat Kylo Ren and repelled his jedi mind trick, that makes her too absurdly powerful as that would place her above or equal to Luke/Anakin. Maybe I'm wrong, but when did they get their minds read? Or take on a novice, wounded Jedi/Sith? 

Yeah, Rey will be stronger too, but movies such as this always puts the heroes in the underdog position. So in some way, Rey has to spend the majority of the movie on the defensive, meaning Ren will probably have an advantage over her. Maybe Snoke will step in and be the primary threat, although logic dictates that Ren will at least be her equal. Even throughout this movie, the heroes were always on the run and barely surviving. Now that Rey has unlocked the force, she's got to face challenges where she must continue to rise above them. That's basic writing.


----------



## Kuromaku (Dec 24, 2015)

Last I checked, Anakin was indeed the Chosen One. He just went about it in a way that the Jedi hadn't foreseen. While he wound up destroying the old Jedi Order, he also was the one who put an end to Bane's Rule of Two Sith Order when he threw Palpatine, the most powerful and most devious Sith Lord ever, down the shaft (it makes it all the more amusing in hindsight to watch him slip down the elevator shaft in ROTS).

Given the importance of Anakin to the previous trilogies, as well as the part his legacy plays in this one, the new developments going on with the Force and its practitioners are likely the destined fallout from the prophecy coming to fruition.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 24, 2015)

Just read about Lucas initial plans for Jar Jar in episode 2 before the backlash


----------



## Kasuke Sadiki (Dec 24, 2015)

Gilgamesh said:


> Rey would have beat up the tuskans, saved her parents, beat up the aliens in the bar, fought Darth Vader instead of Obi, and WON, fucked Leia, talked to R2-D2 and learned the entire plot 5 minutes into the movie, kicked Han out of the millennium falcon and flew it herself, busted out of carbonite, mind tricked Jabba, made friends with the ewoks in a cute and quirky way, used a sniper blaster to shoot Bobo Fetts gun out of his hands etc



I would watch this



Orochibuto said:


> A fight with a guy who is fodder for force users



Let's not act like Finn didn't get a hit in on Ren though. Because he clearly did. Plus, Finn might be Force Sensitive. Remains to be seen. 



masamune1 said:


> A popular theory (with some evidence) is that it was Kylo Ren himself.



Wait what?



MartialHorror said:


> If Finn held his own with minimal (or zero) training, doesn't that prove Kylo Ren isn't that strong? Which makes Rey's victory less impressive?



Pretty good point


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 24, 2015)

Atlas said:


> Also, seems like Ties/X-wings were the only ships in the movie. Like, where are all the A-wings, Y-wings, Mon Calamari ships, etc.



i was just gonna say something about this.

kylo and liea's shuttles were kind of new though


----------



## reiatsuflow (Dec 24, 2015)

> The emotional stakes go up a bit when Maul kills Qui-Gon, but still -- who is this guy? Why am I supposed to care about him, other than the fact that he's played by Liam Neeson? Is it because of the monotone he speaks in for the whole movie? Is it that godawful midichlorians dialogue he spouted? I don't know. And there's no expression of pain on his face when he gets run through with a lightsaber. Qui Gon in that scene:



I get what you're saying, and why you were more involved in this new movie, but for some reason I wasn't vibing with the OT characters in TFA. I don't know why. Ford seemed game, but I thought Fisher was terrible, and Ford's expression at the end almost made me laugh. And I wasn't watching the movie like a snarky mst3k bot. It was just one of those scenes that played into a drama I wasn't feeling, which made it look all overwrought and theatrical and comical. The big dramatic beats with rey screaming and everybody being emotional just sort of went over my head, because none of the OT actors seemed to be inhabiting the movie much, except for chewie. I don't know if it was the age difference or what, but they really took me out of the movie. I warmed up to ford as the movie went on, but the drama they used him for at the end was too much. And because it was too much, and needed me more involved with the old han solo than I actually was, it felt as telegraphed and hollow as anything in the prequels.

I just felt like I was watching harrison ford and carrie fisher dressing up like those characters they played decades ago, and I was never in the camp that couldn't wait to see those characters again. So the emotional beats went aside my sensibilities, which made it feel off.

Weighing the emotions between that and episode one doesn't phase me, because there weren't any emotions with the OT characters for me. It's definitely something with the OT guys that threw me off. I had no complaints with finn, oscar isaac, rey, the new bot, kylo... The death planet was a whatever device, but not a big deal either way. If han solo had been more of a cameo, and his involvement with kylo had been someone else's, I'm sure i would have enjoyed it more. I was sort of bummed out when I realized kylo was soandso's son, and the OT characters were going to play a bigger part than a cameo. I dunno. But most people seemed to love it, so I must have been in a different headspace about it. I'm not a big star wars guy.


----------



## Mider T (Dec 24, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> watto was from a species that was immune to mind tricks
> 
> dat heavy handed jew analogy



I still remember the cringe from the audience when Watto explained that Toydarians' love of money makes them immune to Jedi Mind Tricks.


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Dec 24, 2015)

The Mad King said:


> Just read about Lucas initial plans for Jar Jar in episode 2 before the backlash



What are you refering towards?Could be funny so link?


----------



## Mikaveli (Dec 24, 2015)

masamune1 said:


> She was left on Jakku by someone she keeps expecting to come back for her. But we don't know who left her there or for how long or whatever. A popular theory (with some evidence) is that it was Kylo Ren himself.
> 
> Highly unlikely it was Luke who left her there on this barren desert planet; kind of a dick if he did.



Kylo doesn't seem like he's THAT much older than Rey tho, right?


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 24, 2015)

5 year difference at most


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 24, 2015)

> *BOX OFFICE: STAR WARS: TFA Breaks Record After Record As It Takes Aim At $500M Domestic*
> 
> Star Wars: The Force Awakens is still kicking ass at the North American box office as it looks set to dominate the Holiday weekend and hit the $500 million mark by Sunday. Rising by 1% from yesterday, the movie is projected to make $37.9 million - $38.2 million today, and that takes its current total to roughly $363 million. Star Wars: The Force Awakens is going to annihilate Jurassic World's record by reaching $500 million in 10 days in comparison to the 17 days that sequel took. Early projections have the J.J. Abrams helmed release on course to make between $150 million - $162 million over the weekend, but if last weekend taught us anything, it's that it could go even higher! We'll just have to wait and see on that, but we'll keep you updated with how Star Wars: The Force Awakens performs over the next few days. Will you be seeing it again this weekend?






Tranquil Fury said:


> What are you refering towards?Could be funny so link?



[YOUTUBE]8yy3q9f84EA[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 24, 2015)

Tranquil Fury said:


> What are you refering towards?Could be funny so link?



Count Dooku was created in Jar Jar place. Jar Jar , according to some of the cast members, was suppose to be Sith and one equal to Sidious the polar opposite to yoda


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 24, 2015)

Sennin of Hardwork said:


> [YOUTUBE]8yy3q9f84EA[/YOUTUBE]





> an end credit scene in force awakens with jar jar holding a red light saber and saying "misaaa back!"


.                        .


----------



## masamune1 (Dec 24, 2015)

Super Mike said:


> Kylo doesn't seem like he's THAT much older than Rey tho, right?





~Gesy~ said:


> 5 year difference at most



Adam Driver (plays Kylo) is 32.

Daisy Ridley (plays Rey) is 23.


----------



## Mikaveli (Dec 24, 2015)

Seems like he's playing someone younger than though.

Even still, that's only 9 years. A 9 year old dropped Rey off on a desert planet?


----------



## masamune1 (Dec 24, 2015)

She wasn't a newborn baby when she was dropped off on that planet, you know. She remembers that someone left her there and was supposed to come back for her.

He betrayed the Jedi when she was 9 or 10 and he was in his early 20's; he couldn't bring himself to kill Rey (she is likely his cousin) so he took her and hid her on Jakku promising to return for her...which he never did, or IF he did he couldn't find her. Is the theory.


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 24, 2015)

I wonder how the success of TFA and jurassic world is going to effect blockbuster movie making. These things are cleaning up. I thought Avatar's reign would last until the next installment because james cameron is a wizard, but this thing is going to go over 400 million domestically today or tomorrow. It's insane.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 24, 2015)

The Mad King said:


> Count Dooku was created in Jar Jar place. Jar Jar , according to some of the cast members, was suppose to be Sith and one equal to Sidious the polar opposite to yoda



Not equal to Sidious, actually stronger. According to the theory, one of the goals of Jar Jar would had been to cast a shadow over the original trilogy in preparation for the sequel, by making the point that even though the emperor was defeated at ROTJ, the ultimate darksider was still around.


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## Lucaniel (Dec 24, 2015)

re: all this kylo dropped rey off stuff

why didn't seeing him trigger her memories then
why didn't he say hey it's me the guy you've been waiting for the whole time, now come join the dark side


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## B Rabbit (Dec 24, 2015)

Honestly I thought it was pretty obvious she is Luke's daughter. I also thought it was obvious that she is a skywalker. 

I think only the hardest of hardcore nerds will hate this because "OMG JEDI CAN"T HAVE BABIES"


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## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 24, 2015)

so i just read the comic that takes place after return of the jedi and the rumor of poe being force sensitive....eh could work.


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 24, 2015)

B Rabbit said:


> Honestly I thought it was pretty obvious she is Luke's daughter. I also thought it was obvious that she is a skywalker.
> 
> I think only the hardest of hardcore nerds will hate this because "OMG JEDI CAN"T HAVE BABIES"



Yeah people just want to deny it is all

It kinda adds to the pattern of Luke running away from his responsibilities,no?


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## B Rabbit (Dec 24, 2015)

Pretty much. 

To be honest though, I like the skywalkers, but this trilogy I'm more interested in Finn. Really want him to be a jedi.


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## Wilykat (Dec 24, 2015)

reiatsuflow said:


> I wonder how the success of TFA and jurassic world is going to effect blockbuster movie making. These things are cleaning up. I thought Avatar's reign would last until the next installment because james cameron is a wizard, but this thing is going to go over 400 million domestically today or tomorrow. It's insane.



Inflation.  When Star Wars first came out in 1977, it made almost $36 million in the opening weekend which was crazy lot back then. Today $36M would be considered lousy but not a flop.

In 20 years good movies would regularly break $100 million in a single day.  And in 20 years, there will be some movies that broke $500M weekend.  I bet in 50 years, a $500 million weekend would be considered lousy sale.


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## Stunna (Dec 24, 2015)

There's a pattern of Luke away from his responsibilities?


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 24, 2015)

Yezzer

I feel he's responsible for Kylo as he is responsible for protecting the galaxy from Snoke. But he's too busy wallowing in his guilt to do so.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 24, 2015)

> pattern of Luke running away from his responsibilities


wait what ?


----------



## B Rabbit (Dec 24, 2015)

I wouldn't call it a pattern, but something he's been doing recently.


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## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 24, 2015)

luke ran away out of self guilt
finn ran away from the first order
han ran away back to what he did best
rey ran away from the force


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 24, 2015)

That dude luke sat himself on that island even when 3 planets were simultaneously wiped out. I mean--what does it take for him to get off his old ass and do something? He's obviously a gamechanger since Snoke is putting a lot of effort in keeping him away from things.


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## Kenpachi_Uchiha (Dec 24, 2015)

I am most interested in Finn's story. Some parts of the movie hinted that he is pretty special. Maz talking about seeing his eyes somewhere before and the fact that he was a highly regarded talent wise as a stormtrooper.


----------



## B Rabbit (Dec 24, 2015)

Yeah Finn is pretty much what I'm more interested in.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 24, 2015)

Maz wasn't being literal, bro


----------



## B Rabbit (Dec 24, 2015)

Yeah when Maz said she has seen eyes like that before, she meant the eyes of a man who wanted to run.


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 24, 2015)

wonder whats in store for finn in the future.


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## strongarm85 (Dec 24, 2015)

B Rabbit said:


> Yeah Finn is pretty much what I'm more interested in.



Finn is going to be half machine when we see him again. His spine got cut in half long ways. That's a hard thing to fix.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 24, 2015)

Grievfinnous


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 24, 2015)

bloodplzkthxlol said:


> wonder whats in store for finn in the future.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 24, 2015)

Rey might be Luke's daughter, but....... I still find it kinda fishy. It would explain her sueness sure but, that means just like Luke she also has the potential of 100% Anakin?

That means there are already 2 people that have the same potential as the Chosen One, I could see the potential not diminishing with the first offspring, it is not far fetched and it was also kinda needed by the Force given how Anakin turned.

But Rey..... the graundaughter too? Does that mean that all of Anakin's direct line will never diminish in Force potential no matter how many generations pass and there will always be at least a guy or girl with the same potential as him? That is kinda risky don't you think? All it takes is one guy or girl to turn to the darkside and not lose their body in a volcanic planet to fuck up things.

Besides, I kinda remember one of the reasons (and the only valid one) why the Jedi didn't allowed marriage of the Jedi is precisely because they wanted to avoid a force sensitive bloodline to become strong enough to topple the Republic. Seems this is exactly what happened with Anakin's if Rey turns out to be Luke's daughteru.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 24, 2015)

And yeah, Luke just doing nothing when a solar system was wiped out, doesn't make him look very well.


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## Vault (Dec 24, 2015)

Ren isn't at all gifted come off that complete his training imagine him during the clone wars he would have been killed several times over.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 24, 2015)

Finn's injuries isn't as bad as it looked.


----------



## Orochibuto (Dec 24, 2015)

Vault said:


> Ren isn't at all gifted come off that complete his training imagine him during the clone wars he would have been killed several times over.



He is regardes as a Jedi killer and stopped a blaster midflight. Assuming Luke's order is a piece of shit whose Jedis are shit, Ren should be at least as strong as Ventress. Seriously, no droid is going to kill him in the Clone Wars, he would be fine unless he has the bad luck of facing Dooku or Grievous.


----------



## Gunners (Dec 24, 2015)

Luke staying in isolation could make sense. The series never portrayed him as an individual that was beyond emotional outbursts; he managed to control himself against his father but nothing suggests the slaughter of his students would not phase him. 

It's possible that his grief, anger and regret made him realise that he would do more harm than good.



Orochibuto said:


> He is regardes as a Jedi killer and stopped a blaster midflight. Assuming Luke's order is a piece of shit whose Jedis are shit, Ren should be at least as strong as Ventress. Seriously, no droid is going to kill him in the Clone Wars, he would be fine unless he has the bad luck of facing Dooku or Grievous.



We don't know how he killed the Jedi and we do not know how skilled they were. Based on what we actually know, it is difficult to conclude his level of skill.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 24, 2015)

I'm not asking for Luke to be robotic and unfeeling..

But his duties should take precedence over how he's feeling; That's what I'd call "heroic". Billions are counting on him, resources are being used to find him, but he won't even bother to make an attempt? It's also weird that he would give up on Ben Solo given the fact that his own father was a redeemed Sith lord.


----------



## Gilgamesh (Dec 24, 2015)

Luke running away and hiding is so stupid, EU was cool in that it showed him basically becoming a god. Luke should be able wipe out much of the First Order in an instant at this point.

Or maybe Disney decided to make Rey the strongest Jedi instead of Luke as a fuck you to Lucas.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 24, 2015)

Maybe he is engaged in a metaphysical battle with Snoke which prevents him from engaging in combat and would also explain why he wants him gone, specifically.

Darth Plagueis developed a technique that allowed him along with Sidious to fill the entire galaxy with darkness and tip the scales in favour of darkness, thus breaking the balance. This was among the experiments that made the Force create Anakin to counter him.

If Snoke is Plagueis (or learned from him) he might be attempting to cover the galaxy in darkness again, or something like that, forcing Luke to engage him mentally to avoid that, in a kind of stalemate, which would explain why he doesn't fight, since he can't afford to do so.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 24, 2015)

> EU was cool in that it showed him basically becoming a god.
> 
> Luke should be able wipe out much of the First Order in an instant at this point.


thank God there is none of that


but he should get a bigger role in ep 8


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## Orochibuto (Dec 24, 2015)

Weiss said:


> thank God there is none of that
> 
> 
> but he should get a bigger role in ep 8



What do you expected, he is supposed to be what Anakin at 100% potential sould be, a force god.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Dec 24, 2015)

Orochibuto said:


> What do you expected, he is supposed to be what Anakin at 100% potential sould be, a force god.



Then there is shattering any tension in the story if you have your characters that powerful.

The only way having such levels of power would work, or even be justified, would be to validate Vader's claim that the ability to destroy planets is nothing compared to the Force.


----------



## Gunners (Dec 24, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> I'm not asking for Luke to be robotic and unfeeling..
> 
> But his duties should take precedence over how he's feeling; That's what I'd call "heroic". Billions are counting on him, resources are being used to find him, but he won't even bother to make an attempt? It's also weird that he would give up on Ben Solo given the fact that his own father was a redeemed Sith lord.



It is not that straight forward. His feels are capable of influencing his ability to fulfil his duties and are capable in making him an even bigger threat. Billions of people counting on him would not remove grief, anger and regret over what happened. 

The difference in his reaction isn't weird. If you think about it, his decision to help Ben in the first place was more than likely influenced by his ability to get through to Vader. That idealism blinded him to the threat presented by his nephew and his students died as a result. His idealism, with regards to Vader, did not result in the death of people he was responsible for.


----------



## Fang (Dec 24, 2015)

Orochibuto said:


> What do you expected, he is supposed to be what Anakin at 100% potential sould be, a force god.



He never becomes a "Force" God in EU.


----------



## Orochibuto (Dec 24, 2015)

Fang said:


> He never becomes a "Force" God in EU.



I really never followed grown up Luke EU comics, but doesn't he reach a point where he could stomp on Reborn Sidious? If so, how can you say he never becomes a "Force" God?


----------



## Fang (Dec 24, 2015)

>1991 to 2013
>dozens of books and comics spanning decades after RoTJ
>with a steady power progression and learning new skills
>"Force God"

No


----------



## Karasu (Dec 24, 2015)

Luke became an amazingly potent fighter, but he never became a god or anything like that.


----------



## RAGING BONER (Dec 24, 2015)

ofc he never became a god...the Jedi code is a very rigid an limiting thing; it's practically the antithesis to Sith madness, and just as limiting, if not more so.

Anakin wouldn't have achieved his true potential either had he committed himself to the Jedi path.


when you divide the force and pretend it's light and dark all for the sake of your narrow philosophy, repressing one aspect of your nature in favor of another...how can you ever manifest the true power of the force?


----------



## Parallax (Dec 24, 2015)

Das deep mane


----------



## MartialHorror (Dec 24, 2015)

masamune1 said:


> Adam Driver (plays Kylo) is 32.
> 
> Daisy Ridley (plays Rey) is 23.



Is it ever stated how much time has passed between Return of the Jedi and Force Awakens? Cause amusingly, ROTJ came out 32 years ago.


----------



## Fang (Dec 24, 2015)

Repeatedly.

30 years after RoTJ. Or 34 years after ANH.


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## Bluebeard (Dec 25, 2015)

Maybe there's a reason why Luke went into hiding?

I don't think he would just simply bail out of anguish. There's something Snoke probably needs from him or the planet he's on is the source of the Jedi and he's there to defend it.


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## Wan (Dec 25, 2015)

Bluebeard said:


> Maybe there's a reason why Luke went into hiding?
> 
> I don't think he would just simply bail out of anguish. There's something Snoke probably needs from him or the planet he's on is the source of the Jedi and he's there to defend it.



He went looking for the First Jedi Temple.


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## Bluebeard (Dec 25, 2015)

Wan said:


> He went looking for the First Jedi Temple.



Oh yeah, that's right.

Probably to defend it from Snoke!


----------



## Turrin (Dec 25, 2015)

Stunna said:


> Turrin, the intention of the screenwriters does not defend the flawed execution.


If the screen writers intention is for viewers to question how Rey is that good, and your sitting here questioning it; how exactly was the execution flawed?



Catalyst75 said:


> Then there is shattering any tension in the story if you have your characters that powerful.
> 
> The only way having such levels of power would work, or even be justified, would be to validate Vader's claim that the ability to destroy planets is nothing compared to the Force.


The movies have already validated Vader's claim. Jedi Mind Trick and manipulation in general through the force can accomplish much more damage than a planet busting super weapon, as basically Sidious was able to take over the entire galaxy through his mastery and abuse of these skills.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 25, 2015)

Just because they successfully met their desired effect, it doesn't mean that it makes for good filmmaking.


----------



## Gabe (Dec 25, 2015)

Ren did what Luke could not kill his father and join the emperor on the dark side. Wonder if Rey will also be tempted to join the dark side snoke may want her instead of rylo eventually she's more powerful


----------



## Turrin (Dec 25, 2015)

Stunna said:


> Just because they successfully met their desired effect, it doesn't mean that it makes for good filmmaking.


Agreed, but I don't see how you can make any type of fair call on whether it's good filmmaking or not before learning what the explanation for Rey's natural talent actually is.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 25, 2015)

Who knows if there even is an explanation? At this point, why should I care?

I'm criticizing TFA 100% on the basis of what TFA is. 

Will future installments make me look at this movie differently in retrospect? Maybe? Who knows. I'm not going to reserve criticism just because I _might_ see something that will change my mind in the sequel.


----------



## TetraVaal (Dec 25, 2015)

They casted 1970s John Travolta to play Kylo Ren.   

This film was beyond fucking lame.

Typical Disney and Abrams "paint by number" filmmaking bullshit.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 25, 2015)

ayyyy it's Tetra


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 25, 2015)

> *BOX OFFICE: STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS Nears $800 Million Worldwide*
> 
> We told you earlier about Star Wars: The Force Awakens taking aim at $500 million in North America this weekend, but the latest international numbers have confirmed that the movie is set to sail past the $1 billion mark worldwide at roughly the same time. As of right now, the J.J. Abrams helmed movie has a global cume of $765.9 million, and despite competition from the likes of Daddy's Home and The Hateful Eight, it's expected to do very well tomorrow and the days that follow. The speed in which the movie is breaking these records (and the fact that business isn't showing any significant signs of slowing down) lends some weight to reports that Star Wars: The Force Awakens could end up beating Avatar's record $2.7 billion haul, but seeing as it looks set to make $1 billion in the space of a little over a week, it should end up becoming only the third movie in history to hit $2 billion. Will you be spending you Christmas Day in a Galaxy Far, Far Away?


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 25, 2015)

When I saw kylo unmasked I almost walked out because that face isn't intimidating at all.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Dec 25, 2015)

I think that is the point. He takes off the mask after Rey says how he is a monster or some shit along those lines.

When he takes off the mask, he is just another young dude. 

I really loved how they portrayed Kylo Ren. Underneath all that power, he is like a vulnerable teenager.
That was probably the only good thing about the film, other than outstanding visuals.


----------



## TetraVaal (Dec 25, 2015)

I don't give a shit what the intent was.

friend looked like grease lightning with a light saber.

Can't believe people think Star Wars is back after watching this shitfest of a movie.

"IT DIDN'T HAVE JAR JAR BINKS SO THAT AUTOMATICALLY MAKES IT BETTER THAN THE PREQUELS."

Fucking Grease Lightning pulling his best Hayden Christensen (or whatever the fuck his name is) impersonation by acting all broodingly emo and fucking up shit with his lightsaber because he got some bad news.

JJ Abrams is such an utterly boring, safe and predictable filmmaker.


----------



## Zeta42 (Dec 25, 2015)

I must be growing old because it took me so long to find something strange about the scene where Finn fights that Stormtrooper. How come that Stormtrooper's weapon was resistant to lightsabers? I know MagnaGuards' weapons were like that because they were made specifically for fighting Jedi, but the Jedi Order has been gone for 50 years or so by now. The Jedi are all but extinct, there's only Luke and nobody knows where he is, so running into him is an unlikely possibility. So why did First Order make lightsaber proof weapons for its troopers?


----------



## Mikaveli (Dec 25, 2015)

The movies biggest flaw was it was too safe. The prequels had great ideas, but were executed poorly. This was executed pretty well, but it was just so safe and kinda pandering. 

But I get it. This movie isn't JUST for hardcore Star Wars fans. It drew in casuals and new fans for sure.

I still like this movie, I just think it could have been better.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Dec 25, 2015)

TetraVaal said:


> I don't give a shit what the intent was.
> 
> friend looked like grease lightning with a light saber.
> 
> ...



Thats like.. your opinion man.
Kylo has absolutely nothing to do with Anakin, or Darth Vader. 
He is a much more dynamic character with apparent flaws and emotions.


----------



## Hidd3N_NiN (Dec 25, 2015)

Stunna said:


> Who knows if there even is an explanation? At this point, why should I care?
> 
> I'm criticizing TFA 100% on the basis of what TFA is.
> 
> Will future installments make me look at this movie differently in retrospect? Maybe? Who knows. I'm not going to reserve criticism just because I _might_ see something that will change my mind in the sequel.



If you look at just ANH alone, Darth Vader is a pretty one-note villain. All we really see of him is just this really intimidating guy working under Tarkin but we get little hints of his backstory. It isn't until ESB that fleshes him out more completely. Its just we didn't scrutinize everything under the sun back then for this one movie because we just popped the next movie and got our backstory there.

That's what the film makers were going for the new films too. Its just a lot more obvious now (because of the $$) We got a little hint of Rey and Kylo Ren's backstory and that's it. People are unhappy and complaining now about Rey and Kylo Ren's backstory (or lack thereof) but once the future movies are done and everything is explained, people aren't going to be like "Ugh, what's with these vague hints they're give us? They're not explaining everything!" after watching TFA, they'll just move on to Ep 8 and 9 and get the explanation there.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 25, 2015)

The Mad King said:


> When I saw kylo unmasked I almost walked out because that *face isn't intimidating at al*l.


as opposed to Eisenbergs Lex right ? 






> BOX OFFICE: STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS Nears $800 Million Worldwide


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## Gilgamesh (Dec 25, 2015)

> He is a much more dynamic character with apparent flaws and emotions.



That's a good joke


----------



## Legend (Dec 25, 2015)

So much hate


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## Turrin (Dec 25, 2015)

Stunna said:


> Who knows if there even is an explanation? At this point, why should I care?


Who knows  

Don't try to act like t's not obvious that we are meant to question Rey's talent and the origin of that talent is something that is going to be explored in future films.



> I'm criticizing TFA 100% on the basis of what TFA is.


No your not, because what TFA is, is thee first chapter in a planned 3 part story.



> Will future installments make me look at this movie differently in retrospect? Maybe? Who knows. I'm not going to reserve criticism just because I _might_ see something that will change my mind in the sequel.


Again you can't criticize something when we don't have the explanation. Unless your saying Rey having natural talent at all was a bad choice for X reason, whether her having that talent is explained in a satisfactory way or not. In which case i'd like to hear why you think that is, because it's certainly not like Rey was some God-Sue stopping the villains at every turn destroying the film's tension; considering the massive body count the villains still managed to amass despite Rey's efforts.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 25, 2015)

Hidd3N_NiN said:


> If you look at just ANH alone, Darth Vader is a pretty one-note villain. All we really see of him is just this really intimidating guy working under Tarkin but we get little hints of his backstory. It isn't until ESB that fleshes him out more completely. Its just we didn't scrutinize everything under the sun back then for this one movie because we just popped the next movie and got our backstory there.


What does Darth Vader have to do with _anything_?

Who cares how deeply characterized he was in ANH? He was presented as little more than a relatively high ranking Imperial grunt in that movie. He didn't need any more fleshing out in that movie than he got.

Not that any of this is relevant.



Turrin said:


> Don't try to act like t's not obvious that we are meant to question Rey's talent and the origin of that talent is something that is going to be explored in future films.


Who cares? Again, not me.



> No your not, because what TFA is, is thee first chapter in a planned 3 part story.


That's _exactly_ what I'm doing. Because I'm _not_ taking into account any hypothetical explanation (that may or may not be satisfactory); I'm looking at how what they did in _this_ movie made for poor storytelling.



> Again you can't criticize something when we don't have the explanation.


Watch me.



> Unless your saying Rey having natural talent at all was a bad choice for X reason, whether her having that talent is explained in a satisfactory way or not. In which case i'd like to hear why you think that is--


As I've said a half dozen times by now, yes, the way it was executed was bad for the movie. And no, I'm _not_ going to explain it _again_ because not only has it already been discussed a shit ton in this thread already, but I'm tired of arguing this in circles with you, my man.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 25, 2015)

Hidd3N_NiN said:


> That's what the film makers were going for the new films too. Its just a lot more obvious now (because of the $$) We got a little hint of Rey and Kylo Ren's backstory and that's it. People are unhappy and complaining now about Rey and Kylo Ren's backstory (or lack thereof) but once the future movies are done and everything is explained, people aren't going to be like "Ugh, what's with these vague hints they're give us? They're not explaining everything!" after watching TFA, they'll just move on to Ep 8 and 9 and get the explanation there.


And bloody hell.

I'm not looking for all the details on their backstories right now.

My point is that Rey's abilities in this movie made for bad storytelling _regardless_ of what her backstory turns out to be.

Kylo Ren's backstory is something we do need to see, but I'm patient for a later installment to reveal it because his character worked more in the narrative than Rey's.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 25, 2015)

Weiss said:


> as opposed to Eisenbergs Lex right ?


darth vader had a super intimidating face under his mask

if you're scared of old bald grey men playing harmonicas


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Dec 25, 2015)

Gilgamesh said:


> That's a good joke



Its your problem if you can't appreciate the character for what he is.


----------



## MartialHorror (Dec 25, 2015)

One thing that should be noted about "The Force Awakens", although this can either be a defense or attack, is that the original trilogy wasn't really planned out. Vader was supposed to die at the end of the first movie, he was not supposed to be his Father, Luke and Leia were not supposed to be siblings and the Death Star was supposed to last a lot longer. 

Therefore, the characterizations and plot threads had to be contained, as they were making most of it up as they went along. The reason why I personally take no issue with the abilities and development of Rey and Ren is that the filmmakers have made it clear that they have planned in advantage for the trilogy. Therefore, they can afford to be vague as long as it all comes together in the sequels. 

If anything, I'm concerned that "The Force Awakens" has already done too much with them, as Rey and Finn go through conclusive character development. Finn put his life on the line and practically sacrificed himself, so the 'running away from danger' arc is done and it wouldn't make any sense if he continued to do it in the sequels. With Han in the original trilogy, he showed up at the ending, revealing he had changed. But he still chose to skip out on the majority of the battle, so it made sense that he would still be reluctant to commit to the cause (although he was probably doing it more for Luke anyway).


----------



## Detective (Dec 25, 2015)

TetraVaal said:


> They casted 1970s John Travolta to play Kylo Ren.
> 
> This film was beyond fucking lame.
> 
> Typical Disney and Abrams "paint by number" filmmaking bullshit.



Tetra! 



Is it time for you to review Fatherhood for us?


----------



## Turrin (Dec 25, 2015)

Stunna said:


> That's _exactly_ what I'm doing. Because I'm _not_ taking into account any hypothetical explanation (that may or may not be satisfactory); I'm looking at how what they did in _this_ movie made for poor storytelling.


How is it poor story-telling to hold back an explanation in Part I of a story, to be revealed in Part II or Part III?



> As I've said a half dozen times by now, yes, the way it was executed was bad for the movie. And no, I'm _not_ going to explain it _again_ because not only has it already been discussed a shit ton in this thread already, but I'm tired of arguing this in circles with you, my man.


Literally first time I asked you that question, so how is it even possible that we've argued in circles about it? The rest of this seems to amount to you pushing bad experiences you had with other posters, on to me.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 25, 2015)

I'm not trying to pin bad experiences on you lol; I'm just saying that I don't feel like breaking down why I think Rey's character was mishandled, again.

But essentially, I think she's a Mary Sue, and I don't think Mary Sues make for good storytelling. I don't know _why_ she's a Mary Sue, and I don't particularly care. That's all, homie.


----------



## masamune1 (Dec 25, 2015)

All you needed with Rey was one little line- just one little "How did you do that?!" "I don't know!", or SOMETHING that showed that this wasn't normal for her, or that she is as surprised at her abilities as we are. Or, that she is starting to remember stuff that has been suppressed (as this is the most likely explanation).

But we didn't. It doesn't ruin the movie, but it should have been there nonetheless.


----------



## Hidd3N_NiN (Dec 25, 2015)

Stunna said:


> What does Darth Vader have to do with _anything_?
> 
> Who cares how deeply characterized he was in ANH? He was presented as little more than a relatively high ranking Imperial grunt in that movie. He didn't need any more fleshing out in that movie than he got.
> 
> Not that any of this is relevant.



The Darth Vader example is relevant because Star Wars has set a precedent that characters whose origins and justifications for their abilities are vague and unknown in the first movie are explained later in the other films. Something which you have mentioned "Who knows if there even is an explanation? At this point, why should I care?". So yes, the film makers will resolve your questions and doubts in the future films.



> My point is that Rey's abilities in this movie made for bad storytelling regardless of what her backstory turns out to be.



Based on various other responses here, I would say that is subjective since there is a portion of us who don't believe Rey's abilities broke the story in any way and the reasoning, well we are willing to wait until the next movie to find out how she fits into the story.

Seems like those who dislike Rey's progression in TFA wanted a very traditional Hero's Journey where she starts off as a complete noob vs Kylo Ren who's the big strong villain. This is personally how I see the story based on what TFA showed us. 

Rey and Kylo Ren are more like Aang and Zuko from Avatar. Aang is strong in his own way (Airbending Master and being the Avatar) but he's only marginally stronger than Zuko at least in Season One. And Zuko himself although the antagonist for the first two seasons was never the strongest one around. Eventually what I guess from the next movie we will see Rey and Kylo Ren's training and they will both be equals by the end. It worked with Avatar and I think that's what the film makers are doing with Rey/Kylo Ren for the trilogy so I'm fine with the execution in this film.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 25, 2015)

Hidd3N_NiN said:


> The Darth Vader example is relevant because Star Wars has set a precedent that characters whose origins and justifications for their abilities are vague and unknown in the first movie are explained later in the other films. Something which you have mentioned "Who knows if there even is an explanation? At this point, why should I care?". So yes, the film makers will resolve your questions and doubts in the future films.


It's not even bloody comparable, man.

Vader was a grown-ass man who was stated to have been a powerful warrior who was a Jedi-killer. It's not implausible that he's a pilot, master swordsman, and Force user.

Rey is a young woman who'd never held a lightsaber before, and didn't even know if the Force existed; within hours of finding out about both, she's competently utilizing them.





> Based on various other responses here, *I would say that is subjective* since there is a portion of us who don't believe Rey's abilities broke the story in any way and the reasoning, well we are willing to wait until the next movie to find out how she fits into the story.


Of _course_ it's bloody subjective. _What's your point._



> Rey and Kylo Ren are more like Aang and Zuko from Avatar. Aang is strong in his own way (Airbending Master and being the Avatar) but he's only marginally stronger than Zuko at least in Season One. And Zuko himself although the antagonist for the first two seasons was never the strongest one around. Eventually what I guess from the next movie we will see Rey and Kylo Ren's training and they will both be equals by the end. It worked with Avatar and I think that's what the film makers are doing with Rey/Kylo Ren for the trilogy so I'm fine with the execution in this film.


What's up with you and these terrible comparisons?

Aang and Rey are not comparable. Again: Rey had zero experience or even knowledge about lightsabers or the Force before she began utilizing them at an unprecedented level.

Aang was established to have been a child prodigy who had trained for years at the Southern Air Temple before becoming the competent monk and combatant that we see in his first appearance.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 25, 2015)

Damn, for how long is this argument is going to go on?


----------



## Stunna (Dec 25, 2015)

It's Star Wars.

Probably another 35 years.


----------



## Pocalypse (Dec 25, 2015)

I'm glad we came to an agreement that she isn't a Mary Sue but just talented


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 25, 2015)

Talented in everything she tries


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## Detective (Dec 25, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> Damn, for how long is this argument is going to go on?



Merry Christmas Gesy!


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 25, 2015)

Merry Christmas, bruh

Hope you're having a good one


----------



## Turrin (Dec 25, 2015)

Stunna said:


> I'm not trying to pin bad experiences on you lol; I'm just saying that I don't feel like breaking down why I think Rey's character was mishandled, again.
> 
> But essentially, I think she's a Mary Sue, and I don't think Mary Sues make for good storytelling. I don't know _why_ she's a Mary Sue, and I don't particularly care. That's all, homie.


Which again goes back to my question of why your defining her as a Sue. To me a Mary Sue is a character that destroy's tension within the plot because she unrealistically triumphs over any obstacle she goes up against. A description that does not fit Rey's character. 

Rey is exceptionally talented, but she does not triumph over any and all obstacles in her path or kill the Tension in the film. The fact that the antagonist succeed in doing more damage in TFA than most antagonist accomplish throughout the course of an entire story, despite Rey's efforts, stands as pretty big testament to this fact. I mean:


*Spoiler*: __ 



Rey helplessly watching as Han meets his end at the hands of Ren and being rendered helpless as Ren cuts Finn down to an inch of his life; than only barely besting an extremely handicapped Ren, doesn't really scream Mary Sue to me. 






masamune1 said:


> All you needed with Rey was one little line- just one little "How did you do that?!" "I don't know!", or SOMETHING that showed that this wasn't normal for her, or that she is as surprised at her abilities as we are.


You mean like how she freaked out after feeling the pull of the force from Luke's Lightsaber, that kind of shock


----------



## Hidd3N_NiN (Dec 25, 2015)

Stunna said:


> It's not even bloody comparable, man.
> 
> Vader was a grown-ass man who was stated to have been a powerful warrior who was a Jedi-killer. It's not implausible that he's a pilot, master swordsman, and Force user.
> 
> Rey is a young woman who'd never held a lightsaber before, and didn't even know if the Force existed; within hours of finding out about both, she's competently utilizing them.



I was referring to your original statement.



> Will future installments make me look at this movie differently in retrospect? Maybe? Who knows. I'm not going to reserve criticism just because I might see something that will change my mind in the sequel.



You have an issue with Rey seemingly having unlocked so many Force abilities right off the bat in the first film. Many people have pointed out that her backstory may provide a reason why she was able to do that and that will be explained in future films as this is currently Part 1 of a 3 Part film trilogy. You're doubting that the future films will change your mind on whether it was good storytelling for Rey to somehow have learnt all these abilities so easily but what I've been saying is that until the other films come out, you have no proof that she just learnt all these abilities right off the bat since we are given vague hints that she may have already learnt or trained them earlier.  

But you mention that future films may not answer your doubts so I gave you an example that Darth Vader started off as a one-dimensional villain in ANH before he was fully fleshed out in ESB so we can expect a similar thing for Rey in the future films. If Ep 8 reveals that she spent years training in the Force then all your complaints about how Anakin and Luke spent weeks/months/years training while Rey learnt in one day is moot. Which is why I say its too early to jump to conclusions until the other films are out.



> Rey is a young woman who'd never held a lightsaber before, and didn't even know if the Force existed; within hours of finding out about both, she's competently utilizing them.



A lightsaber is essentially a sword, she wasn't pulling off any kind of trained combat style or anything against Kylo Ren, she was just hacking away with it. People have also pointed out she used the Lightsaber more like a staff, using more jabbing attacks which is the familiar style of combat to her since she's trained in a Staff and not using it properly like a sword.

I wouldn't use *one* example of successfuly using a Mind trick and *one* example of Telekinesis as 'competently utilizing them' just like I wouldn't say Luke managing to guide the missile into the Death Star was him 'competently utilizing' the Force, he still had a ways to go.





> What's up with you and these terrible comparisons?
> 
> Aang and Rey are not comparable. Again: Rey had zero experience or even knowledge about lightsabers or the Force before she began utilizing them at an unprecedented level.
> 
> Aang was established to have been a child prodigy who had trained for years at the Southern Air Temple before becoming the competent monk and combatant that we see in his first appearance.



Because you are misinterpreting what I'm trying to compare against. I'm comparing the style of storytelling between the new Trilogy and Avatar. You are trying to fit TFA's storytelling based on the structure of the OT where Luke Skywalker started off as a complete Newbie against Darth Vader who was pretty much Elite level and at the end, he progresses up to be able to match him.

I view the New Trilogy more similarly to Avatar where the Main Protagonist and the Main Antagonist (For the 1st 2 seasons) are going to be matched up similar in strength to some degree. For those who think that Rey ends up in Ep 7 looking too strong or Kylo Ren not looking strong enough because they wanted a more traditional Hero's Journey style story. Rey may not have lightsaber combat training (or does she?) but she is still trained in combat. And again the Force stuff is speculation material still so I won't go into it again.

Your arguments are more akin to just watching the episode where Aang unlocks his Avatar State for the first time and owns everything and right after the episode ends, starts making statements that there is no longer any tension in the series because from that point on, Aang can just activate his Avatar State anytime and win any fight but as we see in later episodes, it was a one-off deal until he trained to control it. This is the same with Rey, seeing as she never uses any of those abilities more than once. There is no reason to believe that she has somehow learnt to 'competently utilized' them.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 25, 2015)

Turrin said:


> Which again goes back to my question of why your defining her as a Sue. To me a Mary Sue is a character that destroy's tension within the plot because she unrealistically triumphs over any obstacle she goes up against. A description that does not fit Rey's character.


And I think it does. 



The only obstacles you were able to mention that Rey wasn't able to overcome were things that primarily affected other people, not her. They were obstacles _they_ weren't able to overcome.


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## Lucaniel (Dec 25, 2015)

> Again: Rey had zero experience or even knowledge about lightsabers or the Force before she began utilizing them at an unprecedented level.



unprecedented is a stretch

she just whaled on him iirc 

which she was certainly qualified to do going off her display of staff-fighting ability


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## Stunna (Dec 25, 2015)

Hidd3N_NiN said:


> -snip-


----------



## Stunna (Dec 25, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> unprecedented is a stretch
> 
> she just whaled on him iirc
> 
> which she was certainly qualified to do going off her display of staff-fighting ability


allow me to rephrase:



> Again: Rey had zero experience or even knowledge about lightsabers or the Force before she began utilizing _the latter_ at an unprecedented level.


----------



## masamune1 (Dec 25, 2015)

Turrin said:


> You mean like how she freaked out after feeling the pull of the force from Luke's Lightsaber, that kind of shock



No. Need more.


----------



## Turrin (Dec 25, 2015)

Stunna said:


> The only obstacles you were able to mention that Rey wasn't able to overcome were things that primarily affected other people, not her. They were obstacles _they_ weren't able to overcome.


The events of the film in general effected other people, because prior to Rey joining up with Finn, Han, Chewie, and the Resistance, she was a merely living by herself in some slum on Jakku. Rey had no personal investment, at least not to her knowledge, with any of the core conflicts in the films, besides her emotional connections with the characters who had more direct investments in these conflicts. So that is a pointless distinction your trying to make.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Rey was invested in Han's and Finn's well being, and she was deeply effected by her inability to save them, which is why she seeks Luke out personally at the end of the film, because she wasn't strong enough to overcome the necessary obstacles to prevent Han from dying or prevent Finn from getting fucked up by Ren. 

But even ignoring those 2 examples. Rey fails the first time she picks up Luke's lightsaber, as she is left terrified from her visions and decides to run away, right after looking down on Finn for deciding to run away himself. Which is a clear illustration of character flaws and personal failing. Than immediately after that when she squares off against Ren the first time she also fails and gets her ass handed to her by him.

Than on a more minor scale, her attempt to flood the Falcon with poison gas fails, as Han reaches her before she's able to.. Her plan to deal with the bounty hunters after Han, also goes awry when she fucks up and throws the wrong switch. 

Actually while on the subject, what are really her major success in general in the film? She manages to out maneuver two fodder FO Soldiers with a superior ship and superior knowledge of the Jakku terrain. She succeeds in reading one thought from Ren's mind, while he's in a state of emotional turmoil. She succeeds partially in aiding the resistance to destroy Star Killer Base w/ the help of legendary heroes like Han/Chewie, but at the cost of Han's life and Poe being hospitalized or worse; and the Star Killer Base already succeeded in it's task of eliminating the republic before then. These aren't that hugely unrealistic successes or demonstrations of infallibility.


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 25, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> was he?
> 
> i don't remember him doing acrobatics, i remember him limping around, punching his wound masochistically, and whaling on people



He twirled like a figure skater against Finn


*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]Z198CTSAJcs[/YOUTUBE]




He most definitely wasn't  immobile enough to consider him to be _extremely_  injured.


----------



## Turrin (Dec 25, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> He twirled like a figure skater against Finn
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


Ren was extremely injured, but it was a combination of emotional and physical injury.


----------



## Mikaveli (Dec 25, 2015)

Stunna's point is

regardless if its the first part of a 3 part story, this part should be able to stand on its own. For as much exposition is in this movie, this movie largely fails on that front. It _feels_ like a set up movie, instead of episode VII. 

Its still enjoyable, but you two saying questions will be answered in future films is only further backing what Stunna is saying.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 25, 2015)




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## Lucaniel (Dec 25, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> He twirled like a figure skater against Finn
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


i thought you meant, like, prequel acrobatics

eh

could go either way on that one


----------



## Mikaveli (Dec 25, 2015)

Also Rachel


----------



## Mider T (Dec 25, 2015)

Affected.     *


----------



## Mikaveli (Dec 25, 2015)

She is. Tatiana is mah girl 

Was hoping she got the role in episode VIII, but Gugu got it, so I ain't mad


----------



## Detective (Dec 25, 2015)

Based Gugu


----------



## ATastyMuffin (Dec 25, 2015)

Just watched it yesterday. Excellent, excellent movie, the model that all blockbusters should aspire to follow.

I don't really get the Mary Sue comments. To me, a Mary Sue is someone so absurdly skilled in everything that the plot's logic bends over backwards just to accommodate it. How is anything Rey did so extraordinary, especially when compared to the original, or prequel (lol) trilogy? 

I guess even if she was weirdly super-competent (which clearly isn't the case, she fucks up a fair amount in the film, case in point being she freed those weird octopus thingies and ended up killing dozens inadvertently and almost gets Finn eaten - and let's not forget a gravely injured Kylo forcing her to run and mocking her skill with the teacher quote), it doesn't necessarily affect the storytelling at hand. Rey is still a considerably well-developed and acted character, probably the best lead we've had in Star Wars. Batman and Captain America are both major, _major_ Gary Stus, doesn't mean your stories have to suffer for it.


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## Mikaveli (Dec 25, 2015)

At this point, if you don't see the issue with her being master-lite with the force within hours of learning that even exists, you are just giving the movie a pass because its Star Wars lol


----------



## Fang (Dec 25, 2015)

ATastyMuffin said:


> I guess even if she was weirdly super-competent (which clearly isn't the case, *she fucks up a fair amount in the film, case in point being she freed those weird octopus thingies and ended up killing dozens inadvertently and almost gets Finn eaten* - and let's not forget a gravely injured Kylo forcing her to run and mocking her skill with the teacher quote), it doesn't necessarily affect the storytelling at hand. Rey is still a considerably well-developed and acted character, probably the best lead we've had in Star Wars. Batman and Captain America are both major, _major_ Gary Stus, doesn't mean your stories have to suffer for it.



What fuck up are you magically getting here? Those creatures Han and Chewie were ferrying as their cargo ended up killing the pirates that were going to collect Han's ass back to their employers, and she got to save Finn again while showing off her technical expertise being well above Han's.

She doesn't fuck up a single time in the movie.


----------



## ATastyMuffin (Dec 25, 2015)

Like I said, that very same mistake with the rathtars or whatever they're called, almost got Finn eaten alive. Did she rectify the mistake in time? Oh yes, but does it stop it from being a fuck-up all the same? Nope. 

@Super Mike Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that Rey had always known of the Jedi and the Force, i.e., through hearsay or just general myth. It was only when Lupita Nyong'o's character told her about her strong Force-sensitivity that she began to take advantage of it, like with the Jedi mind trick, that she had to try multiple times to use effectively.


----------



## Fang (Dec 25, 2015)

That's not a "fuck up".


----------



## Mikaveli (Dec 25, 2015)

It had no negative consequence, it wasn't a fuck up lol.

@Muffin: It was basically like me learning Jesus was real and that I'm a descendant so I go outside and I'm walking on my pool by dinner. There's a way they could have explained it, even justified it. But the movie didn't do that. It didn't even try, honestly.


----------



## Adonis (Dec 25, 2015)

This movie has me more torn than Kylo Ren.

On the one hand, I enjoyed it. I'm not "OMG, STAR WARS IS MODERN MYTHOLOGY" in love with it by any stretch, but I had a good time. However, I think the script was a fucking disaster if you make the mistake of thinking about it for more than five seconds. 

For example, the actors are great, but the characterization is all off. We have a brainwashed stormtrooper who's the most affable and jokey of the entire cast all while having no qualms killing other stormtroopers his existence proves are tragic figures. Oh. Okay.

As for Rey, I can think of the exact scene where I thought, "Okay, like the actress/character, but not the meta-commentary toward gender norms she's being used to signal." 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Han hands Rey a blaster and her response is, "I think I can handle myself!" What does that have to do with anything? I guess we're supposed to be like, "How dare Han (a man!)  presume to arm his ally during armed conflict! Can he not see how effective her bo-staff is at range? How paternalistic!" No, it's "People might shoot at us and it'd probably be cool beans if you could shoot back."

Moreover, regarding her "backstory": She was left on Jakku when she was five. Her being an amnesiac Jedi prodigy toddler/ secret Skywalker is an exciting prospect to some? It's always dramatic when shit comes easy for the heroes...




Lastly, there's a ton of revisionism going on regarding the OT to prop TFA up. Mainly, Luke being an unflappable chosen one and Leia being a damsel-in-distress. No on both counts. 

Luke gets his ass whooped and called out for being a goofy kid all throughout ANH. He gets punked at Mos Eisley and shoved to the ground before his daddy Obi-Wan steps in.  He doesn't even get to use his lightsaber in combat before the end of ESB. His love-interest friend zones him in ANH and ultimately turns out to be his sister. Wow, where can I get in on this power-fantasy of being dragged along by a much-cooler smuggler, a wiser Jedi, and my incestuous crush?

Leia, meanwhile, is the rebel leader; shit talks Darth Vader to his face; withstands torture; shoots her way out of the Death Star right alongside Han and Luke; etc. But she wore that bikini at one point (before choking her captor to death with a chain), so obviously she's passive and lame. Ugh.


----------



## Bart (Dec 25, 2015)

After watching the film on the 17th, I'm even more confirmed that Finn's a descendant of Obi-Wan's; especially given all of the Force-sensitive references and how Maz reacted when she met him :WOW


----------



## Mikaveli (Dec 25, 2015)

I really hope Finn is force sensitive 

I also hope they give him something more to do in the next one


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 25, 2015)

Bart said:


> After watching the film on the 17th, I'm even more confirmed that Finn's a descendant of Obi-Wan's; especially given all of the Force-sensitive references and how Maz reacted when she met him :WOW



Bart pls


----------



## Pilaf (Dec 25, 2015)




----------



## Bart (Dec 25, 2015)

Super Mike said:


> I really hope Finn is force sensitive
> 
> I also hope they give him something more to do in the next one




*1. *Only two characters in this movie share mysterious childhoods. One is Rey and other is Finn, both being taken away from birth. 
*2.* At the beginning of The Force Awakens, after Ren had captured Poe and was marching back to the ship, he came to an abrupt stop, and in a frenzy of rushing Stormtroopers he stared right at Finn. Sensing something. He says NOTHING to the Phasma about the insubordination. Just takes a mental note, even researching Finn's number prior to meeting Phasma. What's more is that Finn sensed Kylo before he even landed; and Ben didn't sense Han twice, yet senses Finn? 
*3.* Snoke mentions the Awakening that he and Ren have felt. This is almost immediately after the Jakku/Finn incident. Before we meet Rey, and before she knows anything about the Force. 
*4.* Finn is able to break First Order conditioning, a conditioning from birth; and has shown more Force-sensitivity suggestion than even Leia in A New Hope. 
*5.* How does Ben that the person he's looking at is FN 2187 at the end? 
*6.* Finn tossing the training droid aside on the Millennium Falcon. 

*MOST IMPORTANTLY* Maz's reaction to Finn regarding his eyes; that was more than a reaction, that was foreshadowing :WOW



~Gesy~ said:


> Bart pls


_
"The latest bit to surface this week is that Abrams and Lucasfilm are now searching for a twentysomething female actress who is either of mixed race or black. The rumor is that Obi-Wan Kenobi had a daughter or granddaughter." _

_"One of the roles yet to be filled is that of a young black or mixed-race woman who may be a descendant of Jedi Knight Ben Kenobi." _


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 25, 2015)

obi wan confirmed chocolate lover


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 25, 2015)

Funny thing is--this isn't surprising


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 25, 2015)

finn should be mace windu's descendant

but instead of jedi powers his force sensitivity is manifesting in him actually having a personality


----------



## Bart (Dec 25, 2015)

Lmfao :WOW
*
"You might be wondering why Finn (John Boyega) and Rey (Daisy Ridley) are without last names. "I will only say about that that it is completely intentional that their last names aren't public record," Abrams notes."*

if the "revelation" about Kylo Ren was made by Snoke SOOO EARLY IN THE FILM, the revelation about Finn (being saved for the future) should be a WTF MOMENT especially if Rian's direction Episode VIII


----------



## Mikaveli (Dec 25, 2015)

Finn also seemed to hear the voices from the destroyed star system. It could have just been cut weird, or maybe I'm not remembering clearly. 

He's also great with a blaster (unlike other stormtroopers ) and he's just extremely lucky, surviving the TIE fighter crash and finding Poe and Rey. That could be chalked up to protagonist doing protagonist things, but I want him to be a jedi dammit


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 25, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> finn should be mace windu's descendant
> 
> but instead of jedi powers his force sensitivity is manifesting in him actually having a personality



lol I don't remember Mace ever having a different setting other than angry/annoyed.


----------



## Mikaveli (Dec 25, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> finn should be mace windu's descendant
> 
> but instead of jedi powers his force sensitivity is manifesting in him actually having a personality



I don't think so

the whole galaxy and all the black characters involved are related? no thanks lol


----------



## Bart (Dec 25, 2015)

Super Mike said:


> Finn also seemed to hear the voices from the destroyed star system. It could have just been cut weird, or maybe I'm not remembering clearly.
> 
> He's also great with a blaster (unlike other stormtroopers ) and he's just extremely lucky, surviving the TIE fighter crash and finding Poe and Rey. That could be chalked up to protagonist doing protagonist things, but I want him to be a jedi dammit



Wait voices? He does? ~

I must of missed that part :WOW

I mean he's shown more Force-sensitivty suggestion than Leia did in ANH, and that's saying something; plus it's the whole Awakening that Kylo and Snoke felt right after Kylo see's Finn, and this is way before Kylo or Snoke know anything about Rey

Not to mention Finn says, "Come with me" to Rey after the Maz scene, and we know that's what Obi-Wan says to Vader (as recounted by Anakin in ROTJ).


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 25, 2015)

Speaking of, we need to go interspecies as well.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 25, 2015)




----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 25, 2015)

Super Mike said:


> I don't think so
> 
> the whole galaxy and all the black characters involved are related? no thanks lol



thanks for that serious reply to my serious comment fam it's moments like these that make posting on anime forums worthwhile


----------



## Mikaveli (Dec 25, 2015)

Bart said:


> Wait voices? He does? ~
> 
> I must of missed that part :WOW
> 
> ...



I only watched once, but I thought I remembered him looking up or something and then it cuts to the people screaming/dying.



Lucaniel said:


> thanks for that serious reply to my serious comment fam it's moments like these that make posting on anime forums worthwhile



lol? lol


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 25, 2015)

Stunna said:


>



It's always the small ones...


----------



## Bart (Dec 25, 2015)

philosophy question 

if Rey is untrained as said by Ben to Snoke, and she well you know the end of the film

Does that mean a Youngling (episode II), who's received training in the Force, taught how to wield a Lightsaber and trained by Master Yoda would beat the fuck outta Ben?

Food for thought :WOW


----------



## Fang (Dec 25, 2015)

Autism heavy thread


----------



## Pilaf (Dec 25, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> lol I don't remember Mace ever having a different setting other than angry/annoyed.



Dat hate sex, do.


----------



## Bender (Dec 25, 2015)

Saw the film for a second time today. 9.5 out of 10.

Absolute fun sauce.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 25, 2015)

the sad thing here is that when most people say youngling it's because they're mocking the prequels for introducing that retarded word, but when bart says youngling it's just because that's the official terminology and he's a robot

"food for thought :WOW"


----------



## Bart (Dec 25, 2015)

Fang said:


> Autism heavy thread



my doctor says that I see the Force spectrum


----------



## Pocalypse (Dec 25, 2015)

Bart said:


> philosophy question
> 
> if Rey is untrained as said by Ben to Snoke, and she well you know the end of the film
> 
> ...



Forgot who they were, the kids that Anakin killed? If so lol no, they'll run away screaming if they saw a guy in a mask with stretched out gloved hands and a red lightsaber coming towards them.


----------



## Bart (Dec 25, 2015)

Pocalypse said:


> Forgot who they were, the kids that Anakin killed? If so lol no, they'll run away screaming if they saw a guy in a mask with stretched out gloved hands and a red lightsaber coming towards them.



I was talking about the kids who were training with Yoda, but yeah ~


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 25, 2015)

Pocalypse said:


> Forgot who they were, the kids that Anakin killed? If so lol no, they'll run away screaming if they saw a guy in a mask with stretched out gloved hands and a red lightsaber coming towards them.


well, they didn't run away when they saw fucking satan coming at them


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 25, 2015)

Will never stop being funny . 

One of them doesn't look to be that far from 5. Why didn't they capture and convert them?


----------



## Stunna (Dec 25, 2015)

the way the one in the front steps back when the lightsaber ignites makes me lol


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 25, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> Will never stop being funny .
> 
> One of them doesn't look to be that far from 5. Why didn't they capture and convert them?



cuz they wanted the deeply emotional and moving scene where obi wan confessed that he'd seen a security hologram of anakin killing younglings


----------



## Pocalypse (Dec 25, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> well, they didn't run away when they saw fucking satan coming at them



He had a blue lightsaber there if I recall correctly, they wouldn't have expected him to kill them. Plus they thought he was still on their side. 

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnwkE4trA48[/YOUTUBE]

Man that kid was so innocent


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 25, 2015)

anakin was gonna recruit the younglings but he killed them on the spur of the moment because that kid's shitty line delivery reminded him of jake lloyd


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 25, 2015)

>heartlessly murder children fresh out the baby crib
>"THE JEDI ARE EVIL!"

oh Anakin


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 25, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 25, 2015)

was that really necessary

to post, not for stunna to tag it: THAT was necessary


----------



## Mikaveli (Dec 25, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> Will never stop being funny .
> 
> One of them doesn't look to be that far from 5. Why didn't they capture and convert them?



Rule of Two


----------



## Gabe (Dec 25, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> Will never stop being funny .
> 
> One of them doesn't look to be that far from 5. Why didn't they capture and convert them?



Probably the two sith system they use


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 25, 2015)

The Sith have ways of moving pass such technicalities. 

The rule only means only two are allowed to be "official" . Having backup apprentices and assassins is a normal occurrence.


----------



## Pilaf (Dec 25, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> One of them doesn't look to be that far from 5. Why didn't they capture and convert them?



That wasn't his mission. The ones that are useful to the Emperor as Inquisitors have to be abducted at a very young age, before they receive any Jedi training at all.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 25, 2015)

So you think rebels will kill of Ashoka ? Would be a nice twist Ashoka and other Surviving Jedi are out there.


----------



## Gunners (Dec 25, 2015)

Sidious wanted to Anakin to kill the children in order to push him to the point of no return. Anakin reasoned that he was doing them a mercy.


----------



## B Rabbit (Dec 25, 2015)

Finn needs to be a Jedi, but Obi's kid? Idk.


----------



## Vault (Dec 25, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> well, they didn't run away when they saw fucking satan coming at them



To be fair to be honest he didn't get the eyes before he massacred the separatist on mustafar


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 25, 2015)

If Finn is a direct descendant of Windu


----------



## Bender (Dec 25, 2015)

Anyone else agrees that Daisy Ridley is cute as hell? 

Finn gonna get that next episode. 



Pocalypse said:


> He had a blue lightsaber there if I recall correctly, they wouldn't have expected him to kill them. Plus they thought he was still on their side.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnwkE4trA48[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> Man that kid was so innocent



lol I will never get over how fucked up that scene was.


----------



## Bender (Dec 25, 2015)

Bart said:


> After watching the film on the 17th, I'm even more confirmed that Finn's a descendant of Obi-Wan's; especially given all of the Force-sensitive references and how Maz reacted when she met him :WOW



Also crossing fingers Finn a descendant of Obi-Wan..

I can't help but think him awakening next flick he'll have similar degree of 


*Spoiler*: __ 



of force powers as Rey




only his took a while to awaken..


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 25, 2015)

well he hated the separatists so...hate leads to the dark side


----------



## Bender (Dec 25, 2015)

bloodplzkthxlol said:


> well he hated the separatists so...hate leads to the dark side



Speaking of hate, gonna enjoy seeing Kylo Ren training. Hopefully we get a flashback of how badly Snoke poisoned his mind from the get-go.

Btw aint really follow the SW-geek talk on the 17th (when saw movie) but if Snoke accepted Rey as an apprentice wouldn't that mean that Kylo would be disposed of? The whole Sith rule of two isn't canon anymore right?


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 25, 2015)

Vault said:


> To be fair to be honest he didn't get the eyes before he massacred the separatist on mustafar



in that case, my mistake

he didn't look like satan then

























just a methhead


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 25, 2015)

Gunners said:


> Sidious wanted to Anakin to kill the children in order to push him to the point of no return. Anakin reasoned that he was doing them a mercy.


----------



## Mider T (Dec 25, 2015)

Bender said:


> Also crossing fingers Finn a descendant of Obi-Wan..
> 
> I can't help but think him awakening next flick he'll have similar degree of
> 
> ...



Please keep the autism to a minimum.  Mace was an exemplary Jedi, he didn't take a woman.


----------



## Turrin (Dec 25, 2015)

I also don't think Finn is going to become a Jedi, I think Finn will become like Maz, where he can feel the force and has limited force skills, but doesn't receive formal Jedi training.



Super Mike said:


> Stunna's point is
> 
> regardless if its the first part of a 3 part story, this part should be able to stand on its own. For as much exposition is in this movie, this movie largely fails on that front. It _feels_ like a set up movie, instead of episode VII.
> 
> Its still enjoyable, but you two saying questions will be answered in future films is only further backing what Stunna is saying.


Define Stands on it's own, because just because it feels like a set up movie (because that's exactly what it is) doesn't mean it fails to stand on it's own. ANH feels like a set up movie as well, but certainly stands on it's own as well.

Additionally Stunna's point isn't that the movie felt like a set up one, but that Rey was a Sue, which I don't feel is a realistic complaint from my understanding of what it means to be a Sue [Being Naturally Gifted, Doesn't Equal Being a Sue]. And since Stunna refuses to expand on her reasoning for that, I don't understand why.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 25, 2015)

I agree, Bender; Ridley is a cute one.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 25, 2015)

Stunna said:


> *I agree, Bender*; Ridley is a cute one.


----------



## Stringer (Dec 25, 2015)

Bender said:


> Anyone else agrees that Daisy Ridley is cute as hell?
> 
> Finn gonna get that next episode.


something tells me Boyega already hit that ass in real life

they got an insane chemistry off camera


----------



## Bender (Dec 25, 2015)

Mider T said:


> Please keep the autism to a minimum.  Mace was an exemplary Jedi, he didn't take a woman.



Dumbass, I didn't mention Mace in my post.

Autism has clearly struck you more than me.


----------



## Bender (Dec 25, 2015)

Stringer said:


> something tells me Boyega already hit that ass in real life
> 
> they got an insane chemistry off camera



Yeah, I saw they pics of them on Instagram.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 25, 2015)

Stringer said:


> something tells me Boyega already hit that ass in real life
> 
> they got an insane chemistry off camera



Some people just click like that, fam


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 25, 2015)

some people just dick like that, fam


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 25, 2015)

Daisy is a saint!


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 25, 2015)

you know she already showed her tits in another movie, right?


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 25, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> you know she already showed her tits in another movie, right?




This was only her second film.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 25, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> This was only her second film.



how is that an objection?

go google daisy ridley nude


----------



## Bender (Dec 25, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> This was only her second film.



Holy shit in her second movie she showed her tits.


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 25, 2015)

Just saw it again. Still fun.


*Spoiler*: __ 



I forgot that Finn managed to hit Kylo in their duel in the arm with the lightsaber. Not strong enough to cut it but Kylo had to touch it after it. 

Finn's trigger must be the word "traitor" since how he didn't run away when he heard it from that Stormtrooper nor from Kylo Ren. He sure doesn't like to be called that nor feels like one.

Also when Rey began winning against him for some moment, to me at least, it looked like she was way too angry. It gave me vibes as if she was feeling for the first time a taste of giving into the dark side. I forgot to mention that too in my first review.

The only plothole I think I saw was that Poe never explained how he got out from Jakku. He said that he was thrown out from the TIE fighter after he and Finn hit the land but nothing about if he was picked up by the Resistance or if he had with him any way or device to contact them. I don't recall he mentioning any of that when he reunites with Finn and BB-8.






> *BOX OFFICE: STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS Has Now Passed $800 Million Worldwide*
> 
> We'll have some updated box office numbers for Star Wars: The Force Awakens' domestic performance for you tomorrow, but going back to Christmas Eve, and an additional $20 million from overseas means that the movie has now officially passed $800 million worldwide. With its international cume at $422.4 million, the movie has made an incredible $813.5 million in the past week. Of course, with Christmas Eve and Christmas Day typically much slower for the box office outside of North America (UK cinemas don't open today for example), it's now up to the US to help get Star Wars: The Force Awakens to $1 billion, a feat it WILL acheive by Sunday. With China on the horizon, both end of 2015 and beginning of 2016 are going to be very interesting for this movie, especially as it starts to set its sights on Avatar's record. Have you seen The Force Awakens today?


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 25, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> how is that an objection?
> 
> go google daisy ridley nude



Wasn't objecting, it was more of a moment of reflection.



Bender said:


> Holy shit in her second movie she showed her tits.



 It's tv series called "Silent Witness"


----------



## Stunna (Dec 25, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> how is that an objection?
> 
> go google daisy ridley nude


>googles

that wasn't what I was expecting


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 25, 2015)

i knew she'd have no tiddies


----------



## Stunna (Dec 25, 2015)

I was talking about her being all bruised


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 25, 2015)

those are nipples, stunna

you'll learn about them someday


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 25, 2015)

Sennin of Hardwork said:


> Just saw it again. Still fun.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


It's a meme now


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 25, 2015)

Stunna said:


> I was talking about her being all bruised



Don't act all proper now, Stunna.

I have receipts from our skype convos. I've learned too much  about where your interest lie


----------



## Stunna (Dec 25, 2015)

nah, son, I'm not Vault; I don't get off on dat shit


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 25, 2015)

>Vault's being thrown under the bus to save his own skin
>Now questioning the truths behind the Rukia rumors


----------



## Stunna (Dec 25, 2015)

**


----------



## Zeta42 (Dec 26, 2015)

Bender said:


> Speaking of hate, gonna enjoy seeing Kylo Ren training. Hopefully we get a flashback of how badly Snoke poisoned his mind from the get-go.
> 
> Btw aint really follow the SW-geek talk on the 17th (when saw movie) but if Snoke accepted Rey as an apprentice wouldn't that mean that Kylo would be disposed of? The whole Sith rule of two isn't canon anymore right?


I think Rule of Two was mentioned in the movies, so it's still canon.


----------



## masamune1 (Dec 26, 2015)

Snoke and Ren aren't Sith (explicitly said by word of God, I believe), let alone Rule of Two Sith, so that is irrelevant.


----------



## Kuromaku (Dec 26, 2015)

The point of the prophecy was that Anakin destroyed the Sith at the very end, leaving the Force in balance for the first time since the Maker knows when.

At the very least, judging by hints in various material of a Thrawn-type character and Snoke having some knowledge of the Force, there's going to be some reinvention here for the kind of enemy the good guys will be facing. Unless whoever is writing future episodes goes balls out and takes a page out of KOTOR and goes full Nietzsche on the very concept of the Force.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 26, 2015)

Kuromaku said:


> The point of the prophecy was that Anakin destroyed the Sith at the very end, leaving the Force in balance for the first time since the Maker knows when.
> 
> At the very least, judging by hints in various material of a Thrawn-type character and Snoke having some knowledge of the Force, there's going to be some reinvention here for the kind of enemy the good guys will be facing. Unless whoever is writing future episodes goes balls out and takes a page out of KOTOR and goes full Nietzsche on the very concept of the Force.



what's this? what happens in KOTOR?


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 26, 2015)

Stunna said:


> nah, son, I'm not Vault; I don't get off on dat shit



Once a snitch always a snitch


----------



## masamune1 (Dec 26, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> what's this? what happens in KOTOR?



In KOTOR II (not I), one of your party members Kreia is a pessimistic philosopher and she spends a great, great deal of her time lecturing you on why every good thing you do is actually bad or meaningless (though, she'll chastise you for being needlessly evil too- at times, she is just plain unpleasible ), why the Light Side is no better or different from the Dark, why she thinks the Force itself is basically the enemy, and generally trying to deconstruct the Star Wars mythos.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Turns out she is actually a Sith, but the creator of the game has stated that he largely agrees with many of her points, at least those pertaining to the Force and th eDark Side.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 26, 2015)

i see 

does she have any legitimate points that you can accept without buying into nihilism?


----------



## Zeta42 (Dec 26, 2015)

Apparently, Mark Hamill got paid four times what Daisy Ridley got. Where can I read some delicious feminist rants on this subject? :3


----------



## Stunna (Dec 26, 2015)

there's no case to be made; Ford got paid the most because he's the biggest name

Ridley probably got paid the least among the primary players on account of being a newcomer


tho I suppose that wouldn't stop some people from complaining


----------



## Gilgamesh (Dec 26, 2015)

Ford getting that much is ridiculous to begin with, this isn't the 80's and 90's, he's not that big anymore.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 26, 2015)

who should have gotten paid more??


----------



## Kasuke Sadiki (Dec 26, 2015)

masamune1 said:


> In KOTOR II (not I), one of your party members Kreia is a pessimistic philosopher and she spends a great, great deal of her time lecturing you on why every good thing you do is actually bad or meaningless (though, she'll chastise you for being needlessly evil too- at times, she is just plain unpleasible ), why the Light Side is no better or different from the Dark, why she thinks the Force itself is basically the enemy, and generally trying to deconstruct the Star Wars mythos.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



I should really get around to playing that


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 26, 2015)

Kasuke Sadiki said:


> I should really get around to playing that


KotOR1 & KotOR2 (and all other SW games) are on sale in Steam right now


----------



## masamune1 (Dec 26, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> i see
> 
> does she have any legitimate points that you can accept without buying into nihilism?



She probably wouldn't consider herself a nihilist exactly, but...eh; her stuff makes some sense "from a certain point of view", namely the world of the game itself. Like, she'll say that if you give money to the poor, you are doing them a disservice because you are robbing them of a chance learn to fend for themselves. Come back later and they've been mugged for all the money you gave them.

Basically, her philosophy works in the sense that it is logical and makes sense, but also because the game itself keeps reinforcing her viewpoint. A lot of her arguments are straw men arguments; and not just her, but other people in the game as well. Like, many people are under the impression that there is little difference between the Jedi and the Sith, since from their POV it's just two factions of lightsaber-wielding Force users fighting what amounts to a sectarian conflict for control of the galaxy, and some even argue that it would be better if the Jedi just let the Sith win since at least there would be order (this works better in the "if the Sith had won in the past" sort of way- in the current game, the three active Sith Lords you have to fight either don't give a damn about conquering the galaxy or, in the case of Darth Nihilus, are so consumed by the Dark Side that they are no longer human but basically a walking Death Star that destroys everything in it's wake, more of a force of nature). 

Again, the game supports this stance to a point since the Jedi in this game are a bunch of assholes who have been broken by everything that has happened (KOTOR II takes place in a destabilised post-war universe where government is weak, the Jedi have been decimated and the galaxy is generally in turmoil), not helped that Darth Revan from KOTOR I was actually a fairly reasonable if very ruthless Lawful Evil guy who wanted to "Bring Order to the Galaxy", but at the same time even in-universe, when it's all said and done, the Sith are still responsible for waaayyyy more wanton destruction than the Jedi ever were, even if the average joe doesn't know it. It's difficult to tell if we're _supposed_ to agree with Kreia or the rest or not, but the creator IS on record that he thinks a lot of the mythos of the SW universe is dumb and simplistic, and you can argue that he just didn't understand what was supposed to be going on rather than making any genuinely insightful points.


----------



## Gunners (Dec 26, 2015)

Harrison Ford was paid $10,000,000 which is about right when you consider his involvement in the film, his experience and how much money the film will go on to make. Ridley and Boyega were played less because they are inexperienced actors; staring in such a huge film is the real benefit to their career and I am sure they will go on to make a lot more in the future.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 26, 2015)

when was the last time Ford did a big film except TFA ?


----------



## RAGING BONER (Dec 26, 2015)

Kreia is what happens when Jedi think too much.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 26, 2015)

masamune1 said:


> She probably wouldn't consider herself a nihilist exactly, but...eh; her stuff makes some sense "from a certain point of view", namely the world of the game itself. Like, she'll say that if you give money to the poor, you are doing them a disservice because you are robbing them of a chance learn to fend for themselves. Come back later and they've been mugged for all the money you gave them.
> 
> Basically, her philosophy works in the sense that it is logical and makes sense, but also because the game itself keeps reinforcing her viewpoint. A lot of her arguments are straw men arguments; and not just her, but other people in the game as well. Like, many people are under the impression that there is little difference between the Jedi and the Sith, since from their POV it's just two factions of lightsaber-wielding Force users fighting what amounts to a sectarian conflict for control of the galaxy, and some even argue that it would be better if the Jedi just let the Sith win since at least there would be order (this works better in the "if the Sith had won in the past" sort of way- in the current game, the three active Sith Lords you have to fight either don't give a damn about conquering the galaxy or, in the case of Darth Nihilus, are so consumed by the Dark Side that they are no longer human but basically a walking Death Star that destroys everything in it's wake, more of a force of nature).
> 
> Again, the game supports this stance to a point since the Jedi in this game are a bunch of assholes who have been broken by everything that has happened (KOTOR II takes place in a destabilised post-war universe where government is weak, the Jedi have been decimated and the galaxy is generally in turmoil), not helped that Darth Revan from KOTOR I was actually a fairly reasonable if very ruthless Lawful Evil guy who wanted to "Bring Order to the Galaxy", but at the same time even in-universe, when it's all said and done, the Sith are still responsible for waaayyyy more wanton destruction than the Jedi ever were, even if the average joe doesn't know it. It's difficult to tell if we're _supposed_ to agree with Kreia or the rest or not, but the creator IS on record that he thinks a lot of the mythos of the SW universe is dumb and simplistic, and you can argue that he just didn't understand what was supposed to be going on rather than making any genuinely insightful points.



i see 
that was an interesting read, thanks for taking the time to explain it


----------



## masamune1 (Dec 26, 2015)

Weiss said:


> when was the last time Ford did a big film except TFA ?



Either _Chrystal Skull_ or, if you are being charitable, _Enders Game._

Or _Expendalbes 3_ if you are really stretching things.


----------



## Vault (Dec 26, 2015)

Stunna said:


> nah, son, I'm not Vault; I don't get off on dat shit



Man fuck you I thought you was the homie 

Now you chat shit behind my back


----------



## Detective (Dec 26, 2015)

Ridley and Boyega got paid the same. About 300, 000 or so.

Also, Ford gets 0.5% of the final take as a bonus, after all the expenses and costs are calculated. 



> We all knew legendary actors Mark Hamill, Carrie Fisher and Harrison Ford would be paid a bit more than newcomers Daisy Ridley and John Boyega for Star Wars: The Force Awakens, but now we know by just how much.
> 
> According to the Mail on Sunday, Ford has reportedly been paid ?16.7 million for reprising the role of Han Solo and will also get 0.5 per cent of the film’s gross earnings, estimated to be ?1.3 billion.
> 
> ...


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 26, 2015)

> $1 billion (?671 million)


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 26, 2015)

It's simple to understand.

A doctor fresh out of med school will make 100 times less than a Doctor with 20 years of experience.


----------



## Detective (Dec 26, 2015)

BTW, saw the Queen's message for Christmas

That old battle ax can go fuck off


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 26, 2015)

what was wrong with it


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 26, 2015)

> *Mark Hamill *and Carrie Fisher were good to get, but the *film could have lived without them*.


uh                       .


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 26, 2015)

Lol, I think he means they didn't have to be shown in this film.

which is true; Even though I was hoping for it, the Mark Hamil scene was unnecessary here.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 26, 2015)

They should have jump 100 years in the future and do away with the old cast all together and brought in a whole new set of characters.


----------



## Fang (Dec 26, 2015)

RAGING BONER said:


> Kreia is what happens when Jedi think too much.



Kreia was a terrible character.


----------



## B Rabbit (Dec 26, 2015)

Jumping in 100 years would be cool, if they showed Luke reinstating the Jedi Councill


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 26, 2015)

The point of these new set of movies was to introduce a new generation of Star Wars for a new generation of fans. This movie was just fan service mostly for the old fans.

So having new characters to develop and for fans to come to love would be natural.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 26, 2015)

[YOUTUBE]ctN5s8z3E8E[/YOUTUBE]

I didnt know this existed 



want a Yoda spin-off movie !


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 26, 2015)

Clone Wars died too young


----------



## strongarm85 (Dec 26, 2015)

masamune1 said:


> Snoke and Ren aren't Sith (explicitly said by word of God, I believe), let alone Rule of Two Sith, so that is irrelevant.



Word of god said that Ren wasn't a sith. They didn't say anything about Snoke not being a sith.


----------



## strongarm85 (Dec 26, 2015)

Bender said:


> Anyone else agrees that Daisy Ridley is cute as hell?
> 
> Finn gonna get that next episode.
> 
> ...



I feel bad for Finn actually. Kiss on the forehead means friend zone. He ain't getting nothing.


----------



## Gunners (Dec 26, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> Clone Wars died too young



They should have wrapped completed the planned season.


----------



## Pocalypse (Dec 26, 2015)

Regarding their salaries, it won't be an issue for Ridley and Boyega in the sequels. They'll be getting millions, tittering on double digits if Jennifer Lawrence's example is anything to go by, she got paid 500k for the first Hunger Games film then $10 mil for the sequel. 

This is what Ridley and Boyega made 





> Meanwhile, newbies Daisy Ridley and John Boyega netted salaries in the six-figure range, around $100,000 to $300,000.


----------



## Raiden (Dec 26, 2015)

100K and 300K?! Wow lol .


----------



## Bender (Dec 26, 2015)

While initially I think the idea of "he-gets-paid-more-than-them" was bullshit it's kinda understandable if you look at it from a work premise. It's like if you've been with a company for over a year you get bonus pay.


----------



## Bender (Dec 26, 2015)

strongarm85 said:


> I feel bad for Finn actually. Kiss on the forehead means friend zone. He ain't getting nothing.





Ya never know bro.  We thought Luke gettinf a kiss on the cheek from Leis wouldn't mean he'd get full-on lips but he did episode V.


----------



## RAGING BONER (Dec 26, 2015)

any muhfugga can be Rey and FN-2187...


but there is only 1 Han Solo


----------



## Fang (Dec 26, 2015)

Gunners said:


> They should have wrapped completed the planned season.



How would they have done that when Disney pulled the plug on all the follow up seasons and ended the TV's run at the fifth? The show was planned for 9 seasons.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 26, 2015)

why did Disney pull the plug anyway on the CW series ? Financial reasons ?

or is it because they thought it had run its course and it was time to replace it with Rebels ?


----------



## Fang (Dec 26, 2015)

>financial troubles

Star Wars franchise and Lucas Arts were worthy over $27 billion USD. Disney just wanted to axe as much fluff between the movies as possible. Scripts and storyboard sequences for seasons 6 and 7 were already complete when they ended the TV series' run.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 26, 2015)

Rebels is trash fam!


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 26, 2015)

CN held the rights to CW that's why Disney canceled it


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 26, 2015)

> Rebels is trash


I wouldnt know, havent gotten to it yet 




Ive rewatched the 2003 Clone Wars series though


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 26, 2015)

Yes the animated Clone wars is the best of them all. Especially those arc troopers episode


----------



## Fang (Dec 26, 2015)

Its not specifically because of CN, its because CN is owned by Time Warner.


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 26, 2015)

i dont know if i'll mind poe being gay...i dont want it to be forced and for difference sake


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 26, 2015)

> *BOX OFFICE: STAR WARS: TFA Breaks Christmas Day Record As It Zeroes In On $900M WW*
> 
> Future Christmas movies will have their work cut out for them when it comes to beating Star Wars: The Force Awakens because the movie is estimated to have made at least $40 million yesterday. That demolishes the record held by Sherlock Holmes (which made $24.6 million back in 2009), and with $145 million expected this weekend, its North American total is set to pass $500 million after racking up a whopping $391.1 million during its first week, a figure which makes Jurassic World's $296.2 million from back in June a whole lot less impressive. Taking all of this into account, Star Wars: The Force Awakens has now grossed $890.3 million worldwide, with $449.9 million of that coming from overseas and $440.4 million domestically. The movie will pass $1 billion tomorrow.


----------



## Fang (Dec 26, 2015)

bloodplzkthxlol said:


> *i dont know if i'll mind poe being gay*...i dont want it to be forced and for difference sake


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 26, 2015)

Pocalypse said:


> They'll be getting millions, tittering on double digits if Jennifer Lawrence's example is anything to go by, she got paid 500 mil for the first Hunger Games film then $10 mil for the sequel.



she took a pay cut to 1/50th of her previous fee?!

harsh


----------



## Pocalypse (Dec 26, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> she took a pay cut to 1/50th of her previous fee?!
> 
> harsh



rofl, nice catch. My bad


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 26, 2015)

its true, people seriously think he's "queer." 

if they'll cater to demands.....idk


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 26, 2015)

Sheesh, is platonic relationships not a thing anymore?


----------



## Gilgamesh (Dec 26, 2015)

Genndy Clone Wars is still the best


----------



## Bender (Dec 26, 2015)

Gennedy Clone Wars will always be the most boss SW series.


----------



## Atlas (Dec 26, 2015)

Fang said:


> How would they have done that when Disney pulled the plug on all the follow up seasons and ended the TV's run at the fifth? The show was planned for 9 seasons.



It's still considered canon, right?



~Gesy~ said:


> Rebels is trash fam!



Nah, it's cool. Not as great at CW but still enjoyable.


----------



## Fang (Dec 26, 2015)

Gilgamesh said:


> Genndy Clone Wars is still the best



Its okay.



Atlas said:


> It's still considered canon, right?
> 
> 
> 
> Nah, it's cool. Not as great at CW but still enjoyable.



Yes its still canon.


----------



## Harbour (Dec 26, 2015)

Poe told to Finn that he looks good in Poe's leather jacket.

I was like "Wow, wow, wow, thats weird shit to be told in the SW".

I bet, Ep8 will develop that theme further in a subtle way.


----------



## Detective (Dec 26, 2015)

Boner



Read from post # 234 onwards to my latest comment on the current page. Relevant to this thread's subject matter.


----------



## Detective (Dec 26, 2015)

Man, they fooled us so hard with Poe and his charismatic as fuck self at the start of the film

I kept expecting him to get screentime throughout the whole film

Instead we get  fucking Galactic Thirst Lord Stunna for 2+ hours


----------



## Stunna (Dec 26, 2015)

First a black and a woman; now you guys want a _gay_ lead in a Star Wars picture too?

You people are never satisfied, are you?


----------



## Detective (Dec 26, 2015)

What do you mean by "a black" Stunna?

I don't like what you are trying to imply here


----------



## Gunners (Dec 26, 2015)

Fang said:


> How would they have done that when Disney pulled the plug on all the follow up seasons and ended the TV's run at the fifth? The show was planned for 9 seasons.



Yeah, I'm saying the plug shouldn't have been pulled.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 26, 2015)

Detective said:


> What do you mean by "a black" Stunna?
> 
> I don't like what you are trying to imply here


Seeing as how I was being facetious, I would hope not.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 26, 2015)

This Uncle Tom niglet


----------



## masamune1 (Dec 26, 2015)

Weiss said:


> [YOUTUBE]ctN5s8z3E8E[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> I didnt know this existed
> 
> ...



Aren't we supposed to be getting one?


----------



## Stunna (Dec 26, 2015)

I dread the Yoda movie.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 26, 2015)

> want a Yoda spin-off movie !



rofl that's such a fucking stupid idea

of course he wants one


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 26, 2015)

ugh, Luc, why dont you love me 




for real though, Yoda is kickass and a Yoda movie would be gr8 

fans love him too, it would do well


it could also explore pre-TPM era hundreds of years into the past maybe


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 26, 2015)

at the very least it would be much better then a Boba Fett movie and I'd probaly take a Yoda spin-off over a Han Solo movie too


----------



## Stunna (Dec 26, 2015)

Let me guess: a Yoda origin story?

Regardless, it's a dumb idea. Yoda's a character that works better as a mysterious one.

Han and Boba Fett movies are dumb ideas too, but they're better than a Yoda one.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 26, 2015)

doesnt HAVE to be an origin story, can be with him already an established Jedi 


I dont even care, I just want more Yoda


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 26, 2015)

Thing I enjoyed about Poe is how unusually cheerful he appeared even after being captured and tortured .Dude went the whole movie with a "No problem" attitude; which helped give short breaks to the gloomy tone most of the movie presented itself in.

tl;dr: I'm subtly d-riding Oscar Issac fam


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 26, 2015)

yoda was good in the OT in a limited but important role

in the PT he was just a tired old idiot who completely failed to see the obvious and made terrible decisions. but he also did some flipping and threw some rocks around which apparently satisfied the fanboys, because they're idiots

he doesn't need to be ruined further. leave it alone



> Yoda's a character that works better as a mysterious one.


that too


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 26, 2015)

I probably wouldnt even go to a Boba Fett movie to the cinema tbh


never understood the Fett hype


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 26, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> Thing I enjoyed about Poe is how unusually cheerful he appeared even after being captured and tortured .Dude went the whole movie with a "No problem" attitude; which helped give short breaks to the gloomy tone most of the movie presented itself in.
> 
> tl;dr: I'm subtly d-riding Oscar Issac fam



you just triggered harbour by bringing homosexuality into his #safespace


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 26, 2015)

Weiss said:


> I probably wouldnt even go to a Boba Fett movie to the cinema tbh
> 
> 
> never understood the Fett hype



I'd go to a Fett movie on the simple fact that it'll  be the first time I get to see him actually do something.

EDIT: In b4 he doesn't do anything in his own movie.


----------



## Mider T (Dec 26, 2015)

Weiss said:


> I probably wouldnt even go to a Boba Fett movie to the cinema tbh
> 
> 
> never understood the Fett hype



It doesn't make any sense, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't support the cash cow


----------



## Gilgamesh (Dec 26, 2015)

Nostalgia/bandwagoning blinds people

At least Jango killed a Jedi. What did Boba ever do?


----------



## Bender (Dec 26, 2015)

@Gilgamesh

Ha!

Boba Fett popular cuz of shit he did in the novels. My memory fuzzy but IIRC he held his own against both Mace Windu and Darth Vader. Though now, lol that shit non-canon.


----------



## Gunners (Dec 26, 2015)

Nah, him troubling Mace is canon.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 26, 2015)

Boba Fett holding his own against Mace Windu?

That doesn't doesn't make any sense?

I mean, Boba Fett holding off Vader doesn't make sense either, but it makes more sense by default.


----------



## Fang (Dec 26, 2015)

He didn't hold his own against Windu

He just had a bunch of bounty hunters and even a known Jedi-Killer/Force-User like Aurra Sing help him booby trap and sabotage the warship Windu was on, trapping him and Anakin together

He didn't fight Windu directly or anything


----------



## Gunners (Dec 26, 2015)

He didn't hold his own but, if I remember things correctly, he created troubling conditions. Mace would obviously beat the breaks off of him in a straight up fight.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 26, 2015)

wait what ?

Boba vs Mace ?


Boba was a lil kid in AotC and in RotS Mace dies

so kid Boba fought Mace ? wtf ?



edit: ah, I see


----------



## Stunna (Dec 26, 2015)

So a 10-13 year old recruited a gang of bounty hunters and a Force-user for that mission?

Makes more sense than a 10-13 year old fighting Mace, at least.


----------



## Fang (Dec 26, 2015)

Stunna said:


> So a 10-13 year old recruited a gang of bounty hunters and a Force-user for that mission?
> 
> Makes more sense than a 10-13 year old fighting Mace, at least.



>literally the perfect clone of the galaxy's most notorious and skilled Bounty Hunter

I don't understand how anyone could take issue, Jango was training his clone Boba to be his successor, the kid has motivation and the resources, and the allies to call in to help him

Plus as I recall the other guys Aurra brought in were well aware of the Confederacy having a shit ton of bounties on the Jedi during the Clone Wars and the top guys like Windu, Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Yoda had especially high ones

Boba snuck on the ship because he can pass as a Clone Trooper cadet (pre-adult physically), planted a bunch of bombs and detonators all over the major systems and caused the ship to crash

Its pretty feasible by all standards


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 26, 2015)

even if we do go by just the movies alone and take out the books/comics/shows they were in at least maul killed a jedi master.and people who liked boba's suit have the nerve to say "you just like him cuz he has lightsaber"


----------



## Stunna (Dec 26, 2015)

I mean, I don't care. At all.

I was just pointing out how funny it sounds on paper.


----------



## Fang (Dec 26, 2015)

Just like TFA.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 26, 2015)

Stunna said:


> I mean, I don't care. At all.
> 
> I was just pointing out how funny it sounds on paper.


Especially since he was such a whiny little twat in the movie.

Never struck me as a precocious child genius or anything.


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 26, 2015)

not sure if feels


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 26, 2015)




----------



## Fang (Dec 26, 2015)

Stunna said:


> Especially since he was such a whiny little twat in the movie.
> 
> Never struck me as a precocious child genius or anything.



[YOUTUBE]8tMZdrUx8eM[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Stunna (Dec 26, 2015)

He can operate a ship.

Not the most impressive thing, relatively speaking, but sure, whatever.


----------



## Bender (Dec 26, 2015)

Fang said:


> Just like TFA.



Lol yeah no. The Force Awakens it makes sense that the force had spidaled into shit with the imbalance of light and dark. Boba Fett is a pussy punk bitch. He is mad overhyped.

EDIT:

The last youth I saw do something realistic was that boy who gave Windu some water in The Clone Wars, and those younglings that pissed their pants right before Anakin slaughtered them.


----------



## Fang (Dec 26, 2015)

Stunna said:


> He can operate a ship.
> 
> Not the most impressive thing, relatively speaking, but sure, whatever.



So it went over your head?

Okay, I don't really know how to break it down any further then that but whatever dude.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 26, 2015)

**


----------



## Fang (Dec 26, 2015)




----------



## Bender (Dec 27, 2015)

Just an FYI Anakin was able to operate a ship and took down an entire space station in Episode I.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 27, 2015)

I finally saw this film, tonight! First and foremost, I must say that this new continuity shall never supersede, in my mind, the previously-established continuity of the expanded universe that had been built over thirty years of actual time, but it still was very enjoyable, nevertheless. It was very tragic to not hear the 20th Century Fox fanfare before the _Star Wars_ main theme, but I have no control over that, so I shall not allow it to bother me. I shall cover the remainder of my post with a spoiler tag, mostly because of its length, so that my post is not a massive wall of text.
*Spoiler*: __ 



I am sorry to say this, but the film felt very much like a repeat of the very first film, _A New Hope,_ akin to how _Jurassic World_ was a repeat of the original _Jurassic Park;_ it would take far too long to list every parallel of a scene or character between the two films, but I did notice them. That is not necessarily a negative trait, but I still would have preferred something more original than what the film ultimately delivered.

Conspicuously absent were Lando, Wedge, and Boba Fett, but all of those absences can be explained: Boba Fett simply was not important to this film, so did not appear; perhaps Wedge has retired (since his actor was not interested in reprising his role) with Poe Dameron replacing him as the ace pilot; and Lando is busy elsewhere (there is no way that he shall not return, in my opinion).

I cannot believe that the First Order constructed _another_ Death Star! Did they not learn from experiences of the previous two stations? The second station demonstrated that simply making the weapon larger and more powerful will not automatically make it less vulnerable, so the third one was destroyed, as well.

So, I see that the theory that Kylo Ren is the son of Han and Leia has proven to be true; although the previous expanded universe has been discarded (an action for which I shall never forgive the Disney company or whomever else made that decision), it was nice for the storywriters to give a treat to the fans of that timeline, as Kylo Ren is essentially Jacen Solo (although he does not yet have anywhere near the depth and complexity that Jacen had).

On that subject, I really wish that such a major revelation had not occurred so early in the film or in this film, at all; given that Darth Vader revealed his true identity in the second film in which he appeared, it would have been much more awesome if Kylo Ren had revealed his true identity in episode VIII.

I cannot believe that Han died! That was certainly a great surprise! I did not believe that the film would kill off one of the main three characters, but it did. I do not wish to sound cruel and callous, but Harrison Ford actually wanted Han to die in the original trilogy, to give it greater dramatic impact, but George Lucas objected to that idea, instead having him be frozen in carbonite, so, it seems that Ford finally had his wish granted. On the other hand, I was glad the Poe Dameron survived after appearing to die, so I hope to see more of him, in the future.

Many people, myself included, believed that Finn would eventually prove to be force-sensitive, and demonstrate such power, but it ultimately was Rey who could use the force, although I shall not abandon hope for Finn demonstrating force sensitivity in the future.

I was very disappointed that Capetian Phasma had such a minor role in the film, given that promotional materials had made her seem to the be the film's secondary antagonist, after Kylo Ren. Hopefully, she shall reappear, in a future film.

Although Rey was able to defeat Kylo Ren in combat, there is no way that he is dead, given that he is the main antagonist of this new series. I expect that he shall take time to further his training and learn the value of patience and self-control, so that he shall be more powerful, next time.

So, after having been absent for so long, Luke finally reappeared! What has he been doing, all this time? Will he take back his old lightsaber, or allow Rey to keep it? This film left so many unanswered questions, so I shall be expecting them to be answered in a future installment. Most notable was he mystery of Rey's parents, who abandoned her when she was young, so I will be very eager to learn more about that. It would be interesting, if terribly cliche, for her to be Luke's daughter, but Luke would never abandon his child, so that idea is very unlikely. Also, how did Maz obtain Luke's first lightsaber? There must definitely be a interesting story to that, I imagine.


Overall, I definitely enjoyed this film, but I do hope that the one that follows it does not recycle an existing plot, as did this one.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 27, 2015)

Falling into the sarlacc pit 30 years ago _probably_ has something to do with Boba not showing up.


----------



## Fang (Dec 27, 2015)




----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 27, 2015)

Confirmed


----------



## Stunna (Dec 27, 2015)

M?nage ? trois incoming?


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 27, 2015)

Stunna said:


> M?nage ? trois incoming?





How do get your gifs looking so crisp btw?


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 27, 2015)

The Yaoi is strong in the Star Wars fandom despite them actually having just a couple of scenes together.


----------



## Fang (Dec 27, 2015)

Only if one is part of the tumblr fandom fujoshits


----------



## Psychic (Dec 27, 2015)

Hey guys, you're all invited to come play my Star Wars Anthology mafia game. Link in sig.


----------



## BigPoppaPump (Dec 27, 2015)

We really don't need any more dudes kissing in movies and TV. Everyone knows it's gross but seem to refuse to admit it.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 27, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> Confirmed


             .


----------



## Harbour (Dec 27, 2015)

Couple flaws of TFA.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 27, 2015)

>a couple
>60 things are listed


----------



## James Bond (Dec 27, 2015)

60 can be a couple Stunna, love is for all ages.


----------



## Detective (Dec 27, 2015)

James Bond said:


> 60 can be a couple Stunna, love is for all ages.



007 with dat wordplay


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 27, 2015)

Stunna getting that verbal smack down


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 27, 2015)

leave Stunna alone


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 27, 2015)

so has this reached a billion yet?


----------



## Stunna (Dec 27, 2015)

At record speed.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 27, 2015)

It's speculated to take Titanic's place on the highest grossing film list


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 27, 2015)

Why did the resistance not have any fighters beyond X-wings? Where were the A-wings, B-wings, Y-wings, or E-wings? Why did the First Order not have any TIE interceptors or defenders? Why were they still using the same technology from thirty years before?


----------



## dream (Dec 27, 2015)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Why did the resistance not have any fighters beyond X-wings? Where were the A-wings, B-wings, Y-wings, or E-wings? Why did the First Order not have any TIE interceptors or defenders? Why were they still using the same technology from thirty years before?



No money for anything else.


----------



## Gabe (Dec 27, 2015)

It's reached one billion fast wonder if it will get to 2 billion


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 27, 2015)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Why did the resistance not have any fighters beyond X-wings? Where were the A-wings, B-wings, Y-wings, or E-wings? Why did the First Order not have any TIE interceptors or defenders? Why were they still using the same technology from thirty years before?



imagination tapped out at crossguard lightsaber


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 27, 2015)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Why did the resistance not have any fighters beyond X-wings? Where were the A-wings, B-wings, Y-wings, or E-wings? Why did the First Order not have any TIE interceptors or defenders? Why were they still using the same technology from thirty years before?



wait

this is the complaint made by max landis in that screen junkies discussion

almost verbatim


----------



## Fang (Dec 27, 2015)

Dream said:


> No money for anything else.



>galaxy spanning organization
>only enough money for two squadrons of starfighters

Uhhhhh


----------



## Atlas (Dec 27, 2015)

Fang said:


> >galaxy spanning organization
> >only enough money for two squadrons of starfighters
> 
> Uhhhhh



Fuck, that cheap ass Ackbar wasn't even able to spare a couple of his ships.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 27, 2015)

whats your favorite lightsaber color guys ? 



mine is white and red, then purple


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 27, 2015)

^Blue, green and red. I didn't know there was a white one.

There was a PS1 game, Jedi Council, that had a Jedi with a yellow lightsaber. I also liked that one.



bloodplzkthxlol said:


> so has this reached a billion yet?



Yep:



> *BOX OFFICE: STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS Has Earned $1 Billion Worldwide*
> 
> tar Wars: The Force Awakens has toppled yet another of Jurassic World's box office records, earning $1 billion worldwide in just twelve days. With an amazing haul of $153.5 million at the North American box office this weekend, it now has a total domestic haul of $544.6 million, and there's talk of the movie potentially earning upwards of $1 billion in the US alone. It will definitely top Avatar's $760.5 million to become the highest earner ever in the country regardless. Overseas, Star Wars: The Force Awakens took an additional $133.3 million for a total of $546 million, hency why it has a jaw dropping cume of $1.09 billion worldwide. What makes these numbers even more impressive is the fact that the movie has gone this high without the help of China. Had it opened there day and date like Jurassic World did, who knows how quickly Star Wars: The Force Awakens would have reached $1 billion! Next? $2 billion, of course. How many times have you seen it?


----------



## Stunna (Dec 27, 2015)

If I'd a lightsaber, it'd be green.


----------



## Zeta42 (Dec 27, 2015)

Weiss said:


> whats your favorite lightsaber color guys ?


Blue lightsabers look really good in KotOR2's gloomy environments. Fuck... must resist the urge to replay...

As for Outcast, after using the saber color cheat, I decided that the original blue color was the best.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 27, 2015)

Stunna said:


> If I'd a lightsaber, it'd be green.





Yellow is a close second


----------



## B Rabbit (Dec 27, 2015)

Finn x Poe is the true canon.

Rey x Fin are for the old star wars fans.


----------



## Bender (Dec 27, 2015)

@Weiss

Yellow.  Yellow definitely that boss color.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 27, 2015)

Stunna said:


> If I'd a lightsaber, it'd be green.



fuckin stoners smh


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 27, 2015)




----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 27, 2015)

I looked at the gif for too long and now my vision is distorted by green spots


----------



## Detective (Dec 27, 2015)

Man, this film was such cookie cutter safe vanilla in terms of creative output


----------



## Violence (Dec 27, 2015)

Weiss said:


> whats your favorite lightsaber color guys ?
> 
> 
> 
> mine is white and red, then purple



Same.


----------



## The World (Dec 27, 2015)




----------



## Gunners (Dec 27, 2015)

Sennin of Hardwork said:


> ^Blue, green and red. I didn't know there was a white one.






They look pretty sick. I'd have to go with white and blue.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 27, 2015)

Is that adult aged Ahsoka Tano?


----------



## Atlas (Dec 27, 2015)

Spoilers


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 27, 2015)

I'd watch rebels if she's in it..

But it's probably  just to kill her off and my heart can't take it.


----------



## Detective (Dec 27, 2015)

Atlas said:


> Spoilers



Nobody was talking to you, River Song.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 27, 2015)

In this continuity, did Leia ever train and develop her force abilities? I really hope that she did, since Luke emphasized the importance of her doing so in _Return of the Jedi,_ and it would not be good for Luke to be the only remaining light-side force user in the entire galaxy.


----------



## Detective (Dec 27, 2015)

Well apparently she Force choked with Han. But it was never confirmed exactly which side was applying the pressure there


----------



## Gunners (Dec 27, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> Is that adult aged Ahsoka Tano?



[YOUTUBE]Xe1kupqxnJs[/YOUTUBE]

Yeah, and Rebels is worth watching.


----------



## Arishem (Dec 28, 2015)

Orange sabers are straight fire.I'll take two.

There was supposed to be a fleet battle, including a crazy shield ramming Resistance dreadnought, above Starkiller Base. JJ thought it would confuse the audience. Not sure what's so confusing about ships blowing the shit out of each other, but the Warhammer better show up in future films.


----------



## Pilaf (Dec 28, 2015)

Detective said:


> Man, this film was such cookie cutter safe vanilla in terms of creative output



Well, we all saw what happened when Star Wars got EXPERIMENTAL

[YOUTUBE]Zbn5q_i3zDc[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## NostalgiaFan (Dec 28, 2015)

Arishem said:


> Orange sabers are straight fire.I'll take two.
> 
> There was supposed to be a fleet battle, including a crazy shield ramming Resistance dreadnought, above Starkiller Base. JJ thought it would confuse the audience. Not sure what's so confusing about ships blowing the shit out of each other, but the Warhammer better show up in future films.


Really? Jar Jar thought it was too difficult for the audience to tell so he just threw away any chance of seeing some interesting ship designs as well as see how the Resistance might not be as weak as we were shown and actually have some reasonable chance of beating the first order along with something to make that final battle not an complete copy of the one in A New Hope?

Because the fact that a small squadron of only X-Wings were able to win was one of the worst part about that rehashed Death Star battle. We saw in A New Hope that there was Multiple squads of X-Wings as well as even more squads of A-Wings that made it look like the Rebels were at least strong enough to give the Empire a fight. In here we see only one squad of X-wings against a weapon even more powerful then the previous one and yet they do fine. What a load of fuck.

At least showing that ramming ship would make the Resistance out to be a lot more powerful then we thought but I guess we can't have fun new things in this franchise now can we Jar Jar?


----------



## Kuromaku (Dec 28, 2015)

So what's the consensus for TFA on NF? I've seen a lot of positive thoughts, but also a lot of meh, along with some negative, reviews.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 28, 2015)

its either at least on par with ~RotS or between the PT and OT 


a few even ranked it on ANH/RotJ level I think


----------



## Gilgamesh (Dec 28, 2015)

TESB
ANH
ROTS
ROTJ
TPM
AOTC
TFA


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 28, 2015)

Gilga pls go


----------



## Zeta42 (Dec 28, 2015)

Hopefully Rey is never coming back to Jakku. Isn't this a good opportunity for her to change out of her crappy desert clothes? Can't wait for SJW shitstorm when she is "objectified" in Episode VIII.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 28, 2015)

Jedi robes arent even sexy or objectifying 



now a tight female stormtrooper outfit with a bare midriff, oooh yeah


----------



## Mider T (Dec 28, 2015)

Gilgamesh said:


> TESB
> ANH
> ROTS
> ROTJ
> ...


----------



## Zeta42 (Dec 28, 2015)

Weiss said:


> Jedi robes arent even sexy or objectifying


Aayla Secura wasn't wearing a Jedi robe.


----------



## Bubyrd Ratcatcher (Dec 28, 2015)

Given that Rey was a scavenger, wouldn't it have been better if she found Luke's saber into those imperial wrecks, and start her quest to find Luke from there? 

I would have liked a simple adventure story with Poe and Finn, against a villain hidden behind a mask, with a slow burn on the current political situation. 
They could have left the major reveals for episode eight and use this first movie to build solid basis for something good. 

For all their flaws, I liked the political schemes and the attempt to diversificate the contextualization of the episodes 01-03.
At least I had instruments to understand what was happening, I didn't have to watch planets of an alleged Republic blow up out of nowhere.

Whilst they have already breached 1 billion at the box office. 
Apparently the shoehorned fanservice paid off. 

After 2 weeks, I still can't get over it


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 28, 2015)

Im a bit worried about their gross outside of US

shouldnt it be higher already if they want to reach 2+B/Titanics spot ? 

I also dont think China is a huge SW fan (is it ?)



the US gross is record shattering as expected


----------



## Stunna (Dec 28, 2015)

Kuromaku said:


> So what's the consensus for TFA on NF? I've seen a lot of positive thoughts, but also a lot of meh, along with some negative, reviews.


Really flawed, but a step in the right direction after the prequel trilogy.

And they're not going to "objectify" Rey; they're too busy going out of their way to make her some kind of pop-cultural feminist icon. Plus, they're not even selling Slave Leia merch anymore, so.


----------



## Bart (Dec 28, 2015)

Damn, I just remembered that Finn may of heard the screams of those on *Hosnian Prime* 

HOLY MINDFUDGE :WOW


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 28, 2015)

do you guys think Adam Driver has the "right" face to pull off a maskless Kylo Ren ? 


or it doesnt matter ?


----------



## Stunna (Dec 28, 2015)

He looks dweebish.

So it works.


----------



## MartialHorror (Dec 28, 2015)

I thought it worked, as it fit the characterization. He's a weak willed, emotionally unstable dude pretending to be a Darth Vader-esque monster. I'm presuming he will be a lot edgier in the sequel.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 28, 2015)

I hope he steps up his game or something else happens because the new trilogy deserves a grand menacing villain


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 28, 2015)

so was this hyped more than phantom menace and will it make more money?


----------



## Stunna (Dec 28, 2015)

It's already made more.


----------



## sworder (Dec 28, 2015)

Driver was perfect for Kylo, he really makes the character what he is

Looking forward to seeing his growth as a character, lots of potential


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 28, 2015)

Stunna said:


> It's already made more.


yeah

it's prolly soon gonna pass tpm in the inflation-adjusted chart too


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 28, 2015)

i'll never forget how hyped TPM was, every local theater was sold out and when i did get a ticket me and my pop had to sit in the very front row on the very far right so seeing political stuff upfront was....ugh  it wasn't a good experience


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 28, 2015)

> inflation-adjusted chart


anyone even cares about this ? 


because on that chart IIRC, Avatar isnt even Nr1 - thats Gone with the Wind


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 28, 2015)

Weiss said:


> anyone even cares about this ?
> 
> 
> because on that chart IIRC, Avatar isnt even Nr1 - thats Gone with the Wind



i was mentioning it as trivia :byakuya

though since the inflation-adjusted chart is in a meaningful way the "true" chart for these things, i think people do, yes


----------



## Detective (Dec 28, 2015)

Stunna said:


> Plus, they're not even selling Slave Leia merch anymore, so.


----------



## Vault (Dec 28, 2015)

Slave leia mad overrated. Carrie fisher in general is mad overrated 

Come at me nerds


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 28, 2015)

Vaulto is not wrong


----------



## Detective (Dec 28, 2015)

I feel bad for Vaulto. He's been messed up ever since it was reveiled that Finn was basically a filler character.


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 28, 2015)

Gunners said:


> They look pretty sick. I'd have to go with white and blue.



I see. I stick mostly to the movies but they do look great.



Kuromaku said:


> So what's the consensus for TFA on NF? I've seen a lot of positive thoughts, but also a lot of meh, along with some negative, reviews.



A fun movie. J.J. Abrams did well.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 28, 2015)

I don't agree with your second statement, Vault .


----------



## Vault (Dec 28, 2015)

Carrie fisher is bath water tier to you Gesy?


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 28, 2015)

Wouldn't go that far

but I'd take Carrie in her prime over Daisy now


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 28, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> Wouldn't go that far
> 
> but I'd take Carrie in her prime over Daisy now



same. daisy's rey seems a bit too in your face "I'm strong rawr!" leia in a new hope kicked ass once luke opened her prison cell. strong doesn't necesarly mean physically and being good at everything to the point they're practically superwoman.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 28, 2015)

what do their characters have to do with which one you'd smash tho


----------



## Detective (Dec 28, 2015)

You're so superficial Stunna


----------



## RAGING BONER (Dec 28, 2015)

Detective said:


> You're so superficial Stunna



i was about to write a short dissertation for young Stunners benefit on the merits of not judging a potential sexual partner on appearance alone but i felt the topic might go a little over his head...you know, since he hasn't had the benefit of experience yet.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 28, 2015)

irrelevant to the topic of which celeb would you hypothetically bone


----------



## Detective (Dec 28, 2015)

RAGING BONER said:


> i was about to write a short dissertation for young Stunners benefit on the merits of not judging a potential sexual partner on appearance alone but i felt the topic might go a little over his head...you know, since he hasn't had the benefit of experience yet.



I agree with your stance. Stunna needs to learn from first hand experience, by which I obviously don't mean the current state of him only knowing pleasure from his own hand, but rather the ups and downs, and general messiness of adolescent love.

I know we set rather high standards for him, but we mustn't forget that he is still at that early stage in life where he considers Movie 7 Hermione or Selena Gomez to be the epitome of womanly splendor.


----------



## Dadewill4 (Dec 28, 2015)

I regret rewatching episode IV, TFA's plot is too similar it's downright disgusting but that being said I still enjoyed and I'll probably  watch it again later this week


----------



## Platinum (Dec 28, 2015)

Rey is mary sue as fuck. 

That was really distracting me the whole film, but it was pretty good all in all.


----------



## Mider T (Dec 28, 2015)

I guess you can't be a prodigy and a female without being a Mary Sue smh.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 28, 2015)

Katara of ATLA is both a prodigy and a female, and she is not a Mary Sue.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 28, 2015)

this could have been avoided if there was something in the movie that rey didn't know how to do, which was necessary for the plot

but she knew how to fly a spaceship with unusual skill, she knew how to maintain it, she knew how to fight, and she knew how to use the force

so that foregrounds her relative lack of difficulty in achieving things


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 28, 2015)

maybe she has no mother

a child of Luke and the Force itself


----------



## Detective (Dec 28, 2015)

She just kept doing shit that she shouldn't have a fucking clue how to do, and I kept hearing that "Achievement Unlocked" noise every single time she did


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 28, 2015)

the problem is that if rey didn't know how to fly a spaceship, then her and finn wouldn't make it out of jakku, and if she didn't know how to use the force and how to fight, then she wouldn't have survived the film

so either you gotta cut out her mechanical know-how, or keep that and foreshadow her force ability by having some kind of spooky noise and some meaningful close-ups when she first flies the falcon, or have her and finn defeat ren together, maybe by an injured but not incapacitated finn shooting ren in the back while rey barely holds him off

if all three of those changes had been made then it would've been for the best, maybe


----------



## Atlas (Dec 28, 2015)

Detective said:


> She just kept doing shit that she shouldn't have a fucking clue how to do, and I kept hearing that "Achievement Unlocked" noise every single time she did



More like an rpg. "You have just learned force persuasion!"


----------



## Platinum (Dec 28, 2015)

It's not that she is good at one thing, its that she is good at all things.

Poe-tier pilot the first time she tries.

Knows 45803458 languages

Knows the millenium falcon better than Han Solo

Immediately knows how to use a lightsaber and can outduel a sith

Immediately stronger in the force than said sith.

Intuitively knows how to mind trick people for no fucking reason. 

Crack shot with a blaster the first time she uses one.



Lucaniel said:


> the problem is that if rey didn't know how to fly a spaceship, then her and finn wouldn't make it out of jakku, and if she didn't know how to use the force and how to fight, then she wouldn't have survived the film
> 
> so either you gotta cut out her mechanical know-how, or keep that and foreshadow her force ability by having some kind of spooky noise and some meaningful close-ups when she first flies the falcon, or have her and finn defeat ren together, maybe by an injured but not incapacitated finn shooting ren in the back while rey barely holds him off
> 
> if all three of those changes had been made then it would've been for the best, maybe



Not at all. What you do is split her accomplishments up among the trio of her, finn, and Poe.

Poe flies them out of Jakku, she can be strong in the force, and Finn can be the one to beat Kylo because he is a trained warrior.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 28, 2015)

Finn beating Kylo would make even less sense on account of his not being Force sensitive.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 28, 2015)

Platinum said:


> Not at all. What you do is split her accomplishments up among the trio of her, finn, and Poe.
> 
> Poe flies them out of Jakku, she can be strong in the force, and *Finn can be the one to beat Kylo *because he is a trained warrior.



poe being with them the whole time would mess with finn and rey's dynamic which was to a large degree the emotional core of the movie

the bolded would be absurd since as far as we know, he's not a force sensitive, and non force sensitives basically never defeat force sensitives one-on-one in the actual movies under any circumstances, even if they're trained duellist cyborgs simultaneously wielding four lightsabers, even if they have jetpacks, whatever

stormtroopers are trained in point and shoot anyways, not so much close combat. afaik our friend TR8-T0R was a new one


----------



## Stunna (Dec 28, 2015)

to be fair, that's not _completely_ true

Jango took out a Jedi in AotC


----------



## Stringer (Dec 28, 2015)

Platinum said:


> Poe flies them out of Jakku, she can be strong in the force, and Finn can be the one to beat Kylo because he is a trained warrior.


as much as I like Finn it would have been worse if Kylo was defeated by him tbh

let's not forget he's a stormtrooper, they're combat training is suspect


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 28, 2015)

Stunna said:


> to be fair, that's not _completely_ true
> 
> Jango took out a Jedi in AotC



ah, that movie's basically gone from my memory

was it the one who toppled over the balcony cuz jango kept shooting him?


----------



## Platinum (Dec 28, 2015)

Stunna said:


> Finn beating Kylo would make even less sense on account of his not being Force sensitive.



Don't you have to be force sensitive to wield a lightsaber in the first place? I was kind of under the impression he was and it hadn't really surfaced yet but sure.

Ideally, Kylo wouldn't have been jobbed out at all but it is what it is.



Lucaniel said:


> poe being with them the whole time would mess with finn and rey's dynamic which was to a large degree the emotional core of the movie



But this dynamic would have been a better one .

I can see why they didn't want to crowd Poe with Han who fills the same role, but you could write it so he disappears again before Han shows up.


----------



## Atlas (Dec 28, 2015)

Stunna said:


> to be fair, that's not _completely_ true
> 
> Jango took out a Jedi in AotC



Clones did the same. Although, that was more of a surprise attack.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 28, 2015)

Platinum said:


> Don't you have to be force sensitive to wield a lightsaber in the first place?


well, no, it's just a stick with a button you have to press and a blade comes out the end. anyone can use one. effectively? that's a different question


----------



## Atlas (Dec 28, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> ah, that movie's basically gone from my memory
> 
> was it the one who toppled over the balcony cuz jango kept shooting him?



Yeah, he did that Robocop thing with his blaster after he killed him.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 28, 2015)

Atlas said:


> Clones did the same. Although, that was more of a surprise attack.



yeah the scenario here is finn beating kylo in a one-on-one duel


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 28, 2015)

Stunna said:


> Finn beating Kylo would make even less sense on account of his not being Force sensitive.



You shut your whore mouth


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 28, 2015)

> Don't you have to be force sensitive to wield a lightsaber in the first place?


well anyone can pick it up and press the button

Han did it in TESB with Lukes saber on Hoth


I guess swinging with it is very weird/dangerous for a non sensitive, but its still something like point away from yourself and swing ? that much should be possible ?


----------



## Platinum (Dec 28, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> well, no, it's just a stick with a button you have to press and a blade comes out the end. anyone can use one. effectively? that's a different question



I thought you had to be force sensitive because the lack of mass in the blade will cause untrained soldiers to overcompensate and lop off their own limbs or is this just EU bullshit that disney is ignoring?



Weiss said:


> well anyone can pick it up and press the button
> 
> Han did it in TESB with Lukes saber on Hoth
> 
> ...



Well yeah anyone can press the button but they were actually fighting with them in a way that sort of resembled a fight.


----------



## Atlas (Dec 28, 2015)

Platinum said:


> I thought you had to be force sensitive because the lack of mass in the blade will cause untrained soldiers to overcompensate and lop off their own limbs or is this just EU bullshit that disney is ignoring?



I don't remember ever hearing of this.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 28, 2015)

Platinum said:


> Don't you have to be force sensitive to wield a lightsaber in the first place? I was kind of under the impression he was and it hadn't really surfaced yet but sure.


No, anyone can pick up and swing around a lightsaber. You have to be Force sensitive to use it in any meaningful way.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 28, 2015)

Platinum said:


> I thought you had to be force sensitive because the lack of mass in the blade will cause untrained soldiers to overcompensate and lop off their own limbs or is this just EU bullshit that disney is ignoring?


idk where that's from.

but as an idea, it's silly

you would have to seriously fuck up to lop off your own limb because it's too light, that would just mean you swung too hard and make it problematic for you if you swung off-target, cuz you'd stagger because of excess momentum and prolly get rekt

the idea that you need a mystical connection to the universe in order to figure out that you need to put less power into your swings in the first 10-20 seconds of using a lightsaber is damn silly, tbh


----------



## Stunna (Dec 28, 2015)

anyway, the plot would have to be heavily re-written in order to power-down Rey, but that's not a bad thing; the plot would probably come off the drawing board looking less like ANH


----------



## Detective (Dec 28, 2015)

There has to be some sort of tangible weight/propulsion motion or force behind the beam itself, though. Otherwise there would not be such a struggle when two lightsaber users are trying to push back and forth against each other when pinned down, since the handle is nowhere near the area they are applying force to


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 28, 2015)

tbh with careful training & control you should be able to swing it well enough like any sword after some time (Grievous kind of proved this already)


but without the Force level speed or precision (his cyborgness semi-compensated that)


----------



## masamune1 (Dec 28, 2015)

Platinum said:


> I thought you had to be force sensitive because the lack of mass in the blade will cause untrained soldiers to overcompensate and lop off their own limbs or is this just EU bullshit that disney is ignoring?



That's not in the EU or anything I've read (if it is, it's definitely something other writers wisely ignored).

Plenty of non-Force users can wield a lightsaber; plenty of non-Force users can wield a lightsaber _well._ You just have to be a highly-trained Force user to use it _really_ well. Plus, certain lightsaber forms more or less necessitate it.


----------



## sworder (Dec 28, 2015)

Stunna said:


> anyway, the plot would have to be heavily re-written in order to power-down Rey, but that's not a bad thing; the plot would probably come off the drawing board looking less like ANH



Not really?

All they had to do was have her lose the lightsaber duel and mind battle to Kylo, that would be enough to not have her be a Mary Sue

I'm hoping she gets her ass kicked in Episode 8 or this will be one boring trilogy


----------



## Stunna (Dec 28, 2015)

Kylo vs. Rey Round 2; the former should dominate.


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 28, 2015)

some people want snoke to be this size



uuuuummmm....not sure if want


----------



## masamune1 (Dec 28, 2015)

About the only explanation I can accept is that she is really his cousin, he knows it and she doesn't, and he was holding back the hold time because of that (and the injuries).

It isn't satisfying, but it is better than her actually beating him fairly, even given how hurt he was.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 28, 2015)

being a force user doesn't immunise you to being severely hampered if you get hit in the side by chewie's crossbow blaster, that shit is powerful 

that was enough for me to consider the odds evened


----------



## Stunna (Dec 28, 2015)

I wouldn't mind if Snoke was small. Not like it particularly matters.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 28, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> being a force user doesn't immunise you to being severely hampered if you get hit in the side by chewie's crossbow blaster, that shit is powerful
> 
> that was enough for me to consider the odds evened


logic tells me that the blaster is enough to even the odds (disregarding how easily he could have dispatched her with Force abilities, but that's just SW stuff)

still not a good look when piled on top of Rey's other feats


----------



## Atlas (Dec 28, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> being a force user doesn't immunise you to being severely hampered if you get hit in the side by chewie's crossbow blaster, that shit is powerful
> 
> that was enough for me to consider the odds evened



Yeah, those bowcasters are fucking powerful. I think that's what JJ was trying to tell the audience when Han kept using it.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 28, 2015)

sure, but it sounded like he was addressing that in isolation, not in combination


----------



## masamune1 (Dec 28, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> being a force user doesn't immunise you to being severely hampered if you get hit in the side by chewie's crossbow blaster, that shit is powerful
> 
> that was enough for me to consider the odds evened



Usually if a Force user is so injured that they can't wild a lightsaber properly, they fall back on using the friggin' Force. 

Though really, even a seriously injured lightsaber duelist is usually capable of defeating a total novice. If he was well enough to chase after them and fight them, he should be well enough to do better.


----------



## sworder (Dec 28, 2015)

The blaster is enough if we pretend Kylo didn't force slam her against a tree and kept her out of the fight just 2 minutes before she got the lightsaber


----------



## Atlas (Dec 28, 2015)

Should have had Kylo own her ass and have Chewie save the day.


----------



## Detective (Dec 28, 2015)

That Chewie blaster was the real MVP


----------



## Stunna (Dec 28, 2015)

I agree that Kylo should have just turned Rey into a human rag doll with the Force

but at the same time, there are plenty of fights in the SW movies that could have, and probably should have, devolved into people just flinging one another from wall to wall

I know a precedent of stupid shouldn't excuse further examples, but that just seems to be how combatants in the universe roll

I guess


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 28, 2015)

Snoke is intriguing


----------



## Detective (Dec 28, 2015)

I just find it odd that his Force Freeze ability wasn't used as much as it could have been


----------



## Atlas (Dec 28, 2015)

Does anyone know what notable races appeared in the film? I know of the fat Trandoshan, but I can't remember if there were more.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Dec 28, 2015)

Detective said:


> She just kept doing shit that she shouldn't have a fucking clue how to do, and I kept hearing that "Achievement Unlocked" noise every single time she did



Luke's problem was not having an open mind.  That is how he failed to lift the X-Wing from the swamp - he had the idea of how big and heavy the X-Wing was stuck in his mind, so that was blocking his ability to use the Force to pull it out of the water just like that.  

Hell, the Jedi taught *toddlers* to use the Force and to use Lightsabers, and they were generally proficient at it by the time they became Padawans, if I recall correctly.

There are also implications that Rey may have already been trained in the Force before she was dropped on Jakku, *on the same planet as the guy who had the last part of the map to Luke's location.* Namely, the sequence when she picked up the lightsaber for the first time.


----------



## masamune1 (Dec 28, 2015)

Atlas said:


> Does anyone know what notable races appeared in the film? I know of the fat Trandoshan, but I can't remember if there were more.



As far as I can remember, nearly all of the races in this film were new and original, not any we've seen before. Same as the planets.

Which is kind of annoying if you think about it.


----------



## Atlas (Dec 28, 2015)

masamune1 said:


> As far as I can remember, nearly all of the races in this film were new and original, not any we've seen before. Same as the planets.
> 
> Which is kind of annoying if you think about it.



Yeah, it's one of my issues of this film. They can follow same story structure as the original films but not use any of the established alien races? Like come the fuck on.


----------



## masamune1 (Dec 28, 2015)

Stunna said:


> I agree that Kylo should have just turned Rey into a human rag doll with the Force
> 
> but at the same time, there are plenty of fights in the SW movies that could have, and probably should have, devolved into people just flinging one another from wall to wall
> 
> ...



The in-universe explanation is that Jedi and Sith are trained to surround themselves with "Force walls" that prevent their opponents from doing just that, though it is possible to break them in various ways either by the Force user in question being distracted, or simply through their opponent being that much stronger in the Force than they are.

But again, Kylo didn't even try, so that means nothing here.


----------



## Detective (Dec 28, 2015)

Catalyst75 said:


> There are also implications that Rey may have already been trained in the Force before she was dropped on Jakku, *on the same planet as the guy who had the last part of the map to Luke's location.* Namely, the sequence when she picked up the lightsaber for the first time.



Not sure what you are trying to imply with the bolded portion here. Lor San Tekka was not a force sensitive user, and instead was merely a member of the Church of the Force. He was a follower of the Jedi, but I don't think he could train one.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 28, 2015)

masamune1 said:


> The in-universe explanation is that Jedi and Sith are trained to surround themselves with "Force walls" that prevent their opponents from doing just that, though it is possible to break them in various ways either by the Force user in question being distracted, or simply through their opponent being that much stronger in the Force than they are.
> 
> But again, Kylo didn't even try, so that means nothing here.



is that an EU explanation?


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 28, 2015)

masamune1 said:


> Usually if a Force user is so injured that they can't wild a lightsaber properly, they fall back on using the friggin' Force.
> 
> Though really, even a seriously injured lightsaber duelist is usually capable of defeating a total novice. If he was well enough to chase after them and fight them, he should be well enough to do better.



she's not a fighting novice, tho 

and he's half-trained

plus, DA FORCE


----------



## Atlas (Dec 28, 2015)

Detective said:


> I just find it odd that his Force Freeze ability wasn't used as much as it could have been



You talking about the scene where he stopped the laser bolt? He should've deflected it with his hand, fake ass Vader fan.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 28, 2015)

masamune1 said:


> The in-universe explanation is that Jedi and Sith are trained to surround themselves with "Force walls" that prevent their opponents from doing just that, though it is possible to break them in various ways either by the Force user in question being distracted, or simply through their opponent being that much stronger in the Force than they are.
> 
> But again, Kylo didn't even try, so that means nothing here.





Lucaniel said:


> is that an EU explanation?


yes, it is

not a bad explanation, but I try not to use the EU to defend the movies


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 28, 2015)

especially since it's no longer canon


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 28, 2015)

masamune1 said:


> But again, Kylo didn't even try,



do or do not there is no try


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 28, 2015)

IIRC in RotS Obi vs Anakin they use TK on each other at same time, it becomes a ~short invisible close range "beam struggle" and then explodes pushing them both back 




and Yoda pushed Sidious back into his office chair with TK right after getting a face full of lightning



but mostly I assume TK cancels/counters TK


----------



## masamune1 (Dec 28, 2015)

^ That explanation IS still canon though, I believe (could be wrong). But I'll admit, the movies don't follow anything from the EU.



Lucaniel said:


> she's not a fighting novice, tho
> 
> and he's half-trained
> 
> plus, DA FORCE



She is a movie with the Force and a lightsaber.

Half trained is better than "not trained". And he is more than half-trained- he leads an order of knights, he was trained as a Jedi before being trained by Snoke...he has years of experience. Again, more likely he was just intentionally holding back because she's family.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 28, 2015)

regardless of whether the explanation is canon or not, movies should be able to stand on their own and whatnot

the issue could have been avoided altogether if they'd just thrown in a moment of Kylo's Force abilities being impaired by an "emotional crisis" caused by the previous events or something


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 28, 2015)

masamune1 said:


> ^ That explanation IS still canon though, I believe (could be wrong). But I'll admit, the movies don't follow anything from the EU.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



snoke specifically says his training isn't complete

we can quibble over the precise fraction of its completion but what is signposted is that he isn't fully in control or fully competent


----------



## Catalyst75 (Dec 28, 2015)

Detective said:


> Not sure what you are trying to imply with the bolded portion here. Lor San Tekka was not a force sensitive user, and instead was merely a member of the Church of the Force. He was a follower of the Jedi, but I don't think he could train one.





You really missed what I was getting at if you thin I'm implying Lor San was force sensitive.

Riddle me this: *is it a coincidence that a child, with a sensitivity to the force as great as or surpassing the grandson of Anakin Skywalker, was abandoned on Jakku, the same planet where a man who has the last piece of the map to Luke's location lives, around the time period when Luke disappeared from the face of the galaxy?*

There is no such thing as luck or coincidence when it comes to matters involving the Force.  In this case, you do not have someone who is as strong in the force as Rey, within walking distance of the man who has the last piece of the map to Luke's location, and write that off as coincidence.  

After all, by the end of the movie, we have Rey following that map to Luke's location with Anakin's lightsaber, which caused her to realize her own force sensitivity, in tow.

There are only two possibilities as to Rey's parentage (a third if you consider midi-chlorian intervention).


----------



## masamune1 (Dec 28, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> snoke specifically says his training isn't complete
> 
> we can quibble over the precise fraction of its completion but what is signposted is that he isn't fully in control or fully competent



Yes, but unless he has only a few days of doing this stuff, he is _far_ better trained than Rey is nonetheless, and shouldn't be losing to her. Just because you aren't a master doesn't mean you should be losing like that.

Regardless of the explanation, ultimately it still means that our villain is less-than-able this time round, which isn't exactly a good thing.


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 28, 2015)

I think a better reason for Kylo Ren holding back in the fight was that he had orders from Snoke to bring Rey with them and before him more than Rey being a possible family member. 

We still don't know where exactly she falls in.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 28, 2015)

Kylo a cousinfucker ?


----------



## masamune1 (Dec 28, 2015)

Weiss said:


> Kylo a cousinfucker ?



Skywalkers, man.


----------



## Detective (Dec 28, 2015)

[YOUTUBE]lQDvsf5lAp0[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 28, 2015)

masamune1 said:


> Yes, but unless he has only a few days of doing this stuff, he is _far_ better trained than Rey is nonetheless, and shouldn't be losing to her. Just because you aren't a master doesn't mean you should be losing like that.
> 
> Regardless of the explanation, ultimately it still means that our villain is less-than-able this time round, which isn't exactly a good thing.



you're completely disregarding a grievous injury, which baffles me tbh


----------



## B Rabbit (Dec 28, 2015)

People like to skip over that scene entirely.


----------



## masamune1 (Dec 28, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> you're completely disregarding a grievous injury, which baffles me tbh



Because it isn't sufficient. 

Especially when you have force powers. Yes, he isn't fully trained, but he is trained enough, and he is far, far, far more trained than she is.


----------



## Atlas (Dec 28, 2015)

Detective said:


> [YOUTUBE]lQDvsf5lAp0[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 28, 2015)

but why isn't it sufficient for you? that bowcaster hit hard enough to bowl over and instantly kill stormtroopers wearing full armour


----------



## Stunna (Dec 28, 2015)

^

yeah, I keep thinking about all the mooks the bowcaster one-shotted


----------



## Detective (Dec 28, 2015)

In my mind, that bowcaster rifle was pretty much the unstoppable trident from the Anchorman everytime they used it


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 28, 2015)

the fact that kylo ren was able to stand up, move around, and even fight, after being hit by that thing, is a testament to his toughness right there


----------



## Atlas (Dec 28, 2015)

Isn't the bowcaster one of the stongest weapons in the Star Wars universe?


----------



## Detective (Dec 28, 2015)

I wonder if Stunna used a bowcaster during his betrayal when he shot Rukia in the back many years ago?


----------



## masamune1 (Dec 28, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> but why isn't it sufficient for you? that bowcaster hit hard enough to bowl over and instantly kill stormtroopers wearing full armour



He wasn't instantly killed though. He survived it, got off the dangerous bridge with no handrails, made his way outside, chased Finn and Rey into the forest (which is some distance if I remember), beat Finn in a duel...I get that all that might have taken something out of him too, but the blaster bolt didn't cripple him. The fact that he fought her on a somewhat even footing before she took the advantage and won via heroic resolve doesn't help much.

Not to mention, lightsaber duelling is a skill first and foremost; just because you are injured, even badly, doesn't mean that you don't know how to properly wield your weapon. Again, given we are told this guy leads an order of knights and massacred the new Jedi order years before the film takes place, and models himself on one of the greatest duellists the galaxy has ever seen, he should be proficient enough to put up a better fight than he did. 

Or, again, use the Force, Kylo!


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 28, 2015)

Catalyst75 said:


> Luke's problem was not having an open mind.  That is how he failed to lift the X-Wing from the swamp - he had the idea of how big and heavy the X-Wing was stuck in his mind, so that was blocking his ability to use the Force to pull it out of the water just like that.



True.


I agree with the rest of your post as well.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 28, 2015)

Yoda with dat Force wisdom


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 28, 2015)

masamune1 said:


> He wasn't instantly killed though. He survived it, got off the dangerous bridge with no handrails, made his way outside, chased Finn and Rey into the forest (which is some distance if I remember), beat Finn in a duel...I get that all that might have taken something out of him too, but the blaster bolt didn't cripple him. The fact that he fought her on a somewhat even footing before she took the advantage and won via heroic resolve doesn't help much.
> 
> Not to mention, lightsaber duelling is a skill first and foremost; just because you are injured, even badly, doesn't mean that you don't know how to properly wield your weapon. Again, given we are told this guy leads an order of knights and massacred the new Jedi order years before the film takes place, and models himself on one of the greatest duellists the galaxy has ever seen, he should be proficient enough to put up a better fight than he did.
> 
> Or, again, use the Force, Kylo!



well yes, the fact that he wasn't instantly killed proves how tough he is, despite the hampering of that wound. you can't say "oh since it didn't disable him, despite the obviously demonstrated effects of that caster, and the fact that it hit him directly, it didn't do much to him"

it caused him the damage it caused everyone else, he was just more capable of keeping himself together because of the force. what you're looking at in his fight with finn and rey is ren fighting at like 50% effectiveness, if that 

this argument that being injured shouldn't hamper his lightsaber duelling because "it's a skill" is also baffling to me. if you have a big hole in your side, you're gonna be hampered, skill or no skill

all that massacring the new jedi order stuff is putting a REALLY positive gloss on it. all we know about it is that he killed a bunch of trainees. for all you know it was an "anakin kills the younglings" type of situation

including the fact that he models himself on vader as evidence that he should be more proficient is disingenuous as best. you can model yourself on anyone without being able to live up to them and we are explicitly TOLD that he's afraid he won't be able to


----------



## B Rabbit (Dec 28, 2015)

Honestly, I just want Kylo Ren to die, than Snoke say fuck this shit, and take on all the rebels himself.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 28, 2015)

Weiss said:


> Yoda with dat Force wisdom


----------



## Gunners (Dec 28, 2015)

I feel as though people are disregarding common sense in order to further arguments of her being a Mary Sue. If someone killed their father, to further their goals, then got ran over by a car, most people wouldn't expect them to be anywhere close to 100% mentally and physically. 

Ben's body was fucked up and hiss focus was compromised. Him losing to Rey isn't that big of a deal when experienced Jedi masters have lost their lives to non force users.


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 28, 2015)

It's about as good as a new hope, mostly because it's a New Hope


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 28, 2015)

Also, Rey is def. in the Mary Sue field

She's got Luke's powers, Han Solo's piloting skills, Leia's sense of duty, C3PO'S linguistics, R2D2 mechanics and she's an abandoned Urchin from a sand planet in Star Wars too.

Someone went way overboard with her


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 28, 2015)

Gunners said:


> I feel as though people are disregarding common sense in order to further arguments of her being a Mary Sue. If someone killed their father, to further their goals, then got ran over by a car, most people wouldn't expect them to be anywhere close to 100% mentally and physically.
> 
> Ben's body was fucked up and hiss focus was compromised. Him losing to Rey isn't that big of a deal when experienced Jedi masters have lost their lives to non force users.



Peeps are just mad cause Rey didn't struggle this film

Personally, I can accept that there's some sense to it but I hate that it happened.


----------



## MartialHorror (Dec 28, 2015)

Rey's alleged 'Mary Sue' status didn't bother me because she was always on the defensive in the narrative. Remember that Luke also had a lot of her abilities and he seemed less afraid in dangerous situations.  Rey at least looked nervous and terrified when in peril. With that said, I kind of felt like the movie could've exploited her one real established weakness: Her naivety. She's the only one to fall for Finn's lie, but no real consequences come from this. I thought it would be foreshadowing to her making an even worse oversight.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 28, 2015)

>Luke also had a lot of her abilities 

Yeah in like his third film


----------



## The Runner (Dec 28, 2015)

Always felt Ray as enjoyable.

That being the case, yeah someone should've toned Ray *down* a bit.


----------



## Platinum (Dec 28, 2015)

Yeah Kylo was injured, but isn't anger and pain something that makes a sith more powerful? I mean he kept punching his wound for that reason so its hard to say how much less effective he was.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 28, 2015)

Presumably pain empowers a Sith so long as it isn't...y'know..._crippling_ pain lol

shit, maybe it did power him up; maybe the power up is why he was able to do as much as he _did_ do after taking a bowcaster bolt to the body


----------



## Lance (Dec 28, 2015)

I thought he kept punching his wound to keep the blood flowing. He got shot on the heart side right?
Any ways.

Good film overall. 'twas enjoyable to watch. Gave me chills at certain times.
Too much like new hope for my taste. Chick just remembering force and being badass at the end fight made me face palm. It would have been better/fitting ending if she had just run to the Falcon while defending from Kylo and they fly off while Kylo watches and rages. Chubaka could have gotten Finn to the Falcon.
Just my two cents.

Other then that final fight, I thought it was pretty good.
Not many complains other then it was too much like New Hope.

Also, I felt like this movie did not have a story to tell. I really hope it changes for next episode.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 28, 2015)

Platinum said:


> Yeah Kylo was injured, but isn't anger and pain something that makes a sith more powerful? I mean he kept punching his wound for that reason so its hard to say how much less effective he was.



anger, sure

pain...isn't that like, emotional pain? the idea that serious damage to your body can make you stronger seems ridiculous. did anakin turn into a god the moment he got his limbs cut off and he got deep fried on mustafar? y'know


----------



## MartialHorror (Dec 28, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> >Luke also had a lot of her abilities
> 
> Yeah in like his third film



Watch Luke in the first film. He's calm and collected throughout most of the operation to rescue Leia, is shown to be a great shot, expert pilot and blows up the f@cking Death Star. To be honest though, it's unclear how training in the force works. 

Luke is shown to be reasonably skilled with a light saber in "Empire", but he wouldn't have had long to train with Kenobi (most of the training seems to be based around 'feel, don't see') and Yoda is never shown teaching him anything with it. Contrary to what people say, Luke DID hold his own against Vader, even getting in a few good shots before ultimately losing. In ROTJ, he is able to choke people out and mind wipe them, even though he never displayed these abilities in Empire and I was under the impression that ROTJ took place shortly after Empire. People seem to overlook that the force tends to get involved in strange and mysterious ways, assisting heroes with all sorts of plot conveniences and new abilities. In fact, the only thing that hurts Luke and Anakin in the long run is their weakness to wrath. They are their own worst enemies, not the direct opposition. 

I mean, I do see where people are coming from with the Mary Sue accusations. I just don't see why this is only becoming an issue now, as Luke was in many ways one in the first film as well, especially when you consider that he seemed to have a better shot at the princess during the first film. Both Rey and Luke are escapist characters for the audience (people whom we can pretend to be) and Luke's shortcomings didn't really materialize until the sequels (I'm presuming the same will happen with Rey).

I have a feeling that during Episode 8, Rey will be unable to use the same abilities she did in Episode 7 and it will be handwaved by explaining she only pulled it off due to the stress of the situation. 



> I thought he kept punching his wound to keep the blood flowing. He got shot on the heart side right?
> Any ways.



I don't get why this is confusing people. He was wounded, probably very badly. The reason he kept punching himself was probably to keep from passing out from the pain or shock.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 28, 2015)

MartialHorror said:


> Watch Luke in the first film. He's calm and collected throughout most of the operation to rescue Leia, is shown to be a great shot, expert pilot and blows up the f@cking Death Star. To be honest though, it's unclear how training in the force works.


His being a great shot and pilot are things that he's stated to have been good at prior to the events of the movie, though. It isn't the same as Rey being good at them on her first try.

Also, for whatever competencies Luke displayed, he still had flaws as a character that; flaws that many feel Rey lacks.



> Luke is shown to be reasonably skilled with a light saber in "Empire", but he wouldn't have had long to train with Kenobi (most of the training seems to be based around 'feel, don't see') and Yoda is never shown teaching him anything with it. Contrary to what people say, Luke DID hold his own against Vader, even getting in a few good shots before ultimately losing.


Luke wasn't a total scrub in that fight, no, but iirc Vader was toying with him; Luke was on the defensive almost the entire time.



> In ROTJ, he is able to choke people out and mind wipe them, even though he never displayed these abilities in Empire and I was under the impression that ROTJ took place shortly after Empire.


ROTJ takes place a year after TESB. Assuming Luke didn't already have those abilities, a year of training after Yoda helps him understand the Force better would have sufficed.



> I mean, I do see where people are coming from with the Mary Sue accusations. I just don't see why this is only becoming an issue now, as Luke was in many ways one in the first film as well, especially when you consider that he seemed to have a better shot at the princess during the first film. Both Rey and Luke are escapist characters for the audience (people whom we can pretend to be) and Luke's shortcomings didn't really materialize until the sequels (I'm presuming the same will happen with Rey).


Again, no.

Luke was competent at things that he'd had practice with for years prior to the start of the movie; Rey was competent at things on her first go.

Luke was also flawed as a character; he was rash and a whiner, and constantly needed help from other characters to survive.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 28, 2015)

> Luke was competent at things that he'd had practice with for years prior to the start of the movie



shooting? as a moisture farmer?


----------



## Platinum (Dec 28, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> anger, sure
> 
> pain...isn't that like, emotional pain? the idea that serious damage to your body can make you stronger seems ridiculous. did anakin turn into a god the moment he got his limbs cut off and he got deep fried on mustafar? y'know




It happens pretty often in real life where pain can release chemicals that help a person ignore the limits the body self-imposes on themselves. Sith anger probably the space magic equivalent. 

Anakin was physically unable to move and actually lost limbs, where Ren was just shot in the side. 

Again why do you think he keeps punching his wound if not to make himself stronger?


----------



## Atlas (Dec 28, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> shooting? as a moisture farmer?



Those womp rats are hard to hit.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 28, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> shooting? as a moisture farmer?


does being a moisture farmer stop him from shooting at things during his spare time?

he himself said that he used to "bullseye womp rats" in his T-16 speeder


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 28, 2015)

Platinum said:


> It happens pretty often in real life where pain can release chemicals that help a person ignore the limits the body self-imposes on themselves. Sith anger probably the space magic equivalent.
> 
> Anakin was physically unable to move and actually lost limbs, where Ren was just shot in the side.
> 
> Again why do you think he keeps punching his wound if not to make himself stronger?



so the bursts of pain would keep him from passing out? self-loathing cuz he'd just killed his dad? an attempt to intimidate rey and finn, which definitely worked? there could be lots of explanations

>"just" shot in the side
>with the bowcaster





Stunna said:


> does being a moisture farmer stop him from shooting at things during his spare time?
> 
> he himself said that he used to "bullseye womp rats" in his T-16 speeder



oh you mean as a pilot? i thought you meant with blasters


----------



## Stunna (Dec 28, 2015)

is there any reason why he couldn't have been a decent shot with a blaster too? I could think of a few reasons why someone would want to be handy with a blaster living on Tatooine. Especially since he wanted to join the Rebellion.


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 28, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> shooting? as a moisture farmer?



Who do you think keeps rallying for the second amendment?


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 28, 2015)

Stunna said:


> is there any reason why he couldn't have been a decent shot with a blaster too? I could think of a few reasons why someone would want to be handy with a blaster living on Tatooine.



i thought your point was 



> things that he's stated to have been good at prior to the events of the movie, though. It isn't the same as Rey being good at them on her first try.



stated to have been good at as opposed to inferred to have been good at it

cuz from inference, at least half of rey's skills are things she could have come by doing what she does. i'm referring specifically to mechanical maintenance and being able to fight and being a good shot. which is a discussion we've had where you say "but when you combine it with the other stuff, it looks bad". but in this specific context of things people have specifically been _stated_ to be good at, luke wasn't stated to be a good hand with a blaster


----------



## Vault (Dec 28, 2015)

Rey was OP why are people still arguing this? She force augmented because she could. The hardest Jedi trick of force altering and she simply closed her eyes thought "yeah force dawg I need more strength" and she fucking done it


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 28, 2015)

Vault said:


> Rey was OP why are people still arguing this? She force augmented because she could. The hardest Jedi trick of force altering and she simply closed her eyes thought "yeah force dawg I need more strength" and she fucking done it



>he's still spouting this unevidenced "hardest trick" garbage even tho all that EU shit is non canon now


----------



## Stunna (Dec 28, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> stated to have been good at as opposed to inferred to have been good at it
> 
> cuz from inference, at least half of rey's skills are things she could have come by doing what she does. i'm referring specifically to mechanical maintenance and being able to fight and being a good shot. which is a discussion we've had where you say "but when you combine it with the other stuff, it looks bad".


what's your point? since we've had this convo before, you know that I'm not inherently against inferring about this kind of thing



> but in this specific context of things people have specifically been _stated_ to be good at, luke wasn't stated to be a good hand with a blaster


was it not shown that Rey wasn't used to handling a blaster? and yet she proceeded to gun down mooks with relative ease?

that's not the same as if she grabbed the blaster and just used it; then I would have thought "huh, she must have used one before on Jakku"


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 28, 2015)

> was it not shown that Rey wasn't used to handling a blaster?



do you mean her "i can defend myself" thing?

cuz if you don't mean that then i don't know what you mean


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 28, 2015)

The bit where she literally forgot about the safety for example


----------



## Stunna (Dec 28, 2015)

I seem to recall that when the shit hit the fan and she tried to use the blaster, the safety was on or something? she couldn't figure out how to fire, and then when she did, she blatantly missed the first shot before proceeding to go HAM

does my memory fail me?

edit:


> The bit where she literally forgot about the safety for example


Cool, so I didn't imagine that.


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 28, 2015)

No, that's exactly what happened


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 28, 2015)

Stunna said:


> I seem to recall that when the shit hit the fan and she tried to use the blaster, the safety was on or something? she couldn't figure out how to fire, and then when she did, she blatantly missed the first shot before proceeding to go HAM
> 
> does my memory fail me?



i can't argue otherwise because it's now been a while since i saw it and i only saw it once, but i don't remember it

what with there being different models of blasters though, it's not out of the question that she just wasn't used to one with a safety, or that there was a calibration period to adjust to the differing size, recoil, whatever

like if someone who's a good shot with a standard handgun has to use a desert eagle or something

but conversely i may be extrapolating too much


----------



## Bender (Dec 28, 2015)

Since no one else has nutted up and said it I'm going to get it over with and say it:

Luke sucks ass if he couldn't rescue Han Solo in this unbelievably simple manner:

[YOUTUBE]zdukWtJwlPU[/YOUTUBE]

0:04-0:30

"Stupid elaborate" is the perfect phrase to describe Luke's shit plan in Return of the Jedi.


----------



## MartialHorror (Dec 28, 2015)

Stunna said:


> His being a great shot and pilot are things that he's stated to have been good at prior to the events of the movie, though. It isn't the same as Rey being good at them on her first try.
> 
> Also, for whatever competencies Luke displayed, he still had flaws as a character that; flaws that many feel Rey lacks.



Question, what did Luke say he could pilot? I was under the impression that he had never left Tattooine, so it seems odd that he'd have the opportunity to pilot a space ship? I always presumed it was a low flyer he had experience with and it just happened to translate well into space piloting. Rey appears to be able to have some piloting abilities based on her original plan before she was forced to go in the Falcon. As for shooting, you got me there, but remember that this is the franchise where farmboy Luke can outshoot trained soldiers. 


> Luke wasn't a total scrub in that fight, no, but iirc Vader was toying with him; Luke was on the defensive almost the entire time.



So Vader was letting Luke cut him with his light saber, which obviously hurt as Vader cried out in pain? I personally think the Rey-Ren fight was a reverse of this one, where the loser was emotionally compromised while the victor was calm and collected. But even if you're right, TFA makes a point of Vader>>>Ren and Luke (from Ep 4) is probably stronger than Rey.  



> ROTJ takes place a year after TESB. Assuming Luke didn't already have those abilities, a year of training after Yoda helps him understand the Force better would have sufficed.



So in that year, he had to recover from his injuries and prepare for Han's rescue, so had less time to become a Jedi Master. Yoda did teach him about the force, but we only see him being trained in using it to boost his physical abilities and move things around. This does not translate into mind tricks and force choking. If you're right though, consider this: Did Luke know of the force before Kenobi taught him anything? Apparently if you're gifted, knowledge of the force can lead to you awakening certain abilities. Rey seems to know what the force is, although she doesn't realize it is real until confronted with it. This would explain how she knew she could manipulate the Storm Trooper. 

Everyone presumes that it came from Ren's attempt to invade her mind, although have we ever seen a successful jedi mind trick used against someone force sensitive? 


> Again, no.
> 
> Luke was competent at things that he'd had practice with for years prior to the start of the movie; Rey was competent at things on her first go.
> 
> Luke was also flawed as a character; he was rash and a whiner, and constantly needed help from other characters to survive.





> shooting? as a moisture farmer?



Actually, Luke probably was trained with a blaster, as they have to deal with certain vagrants like...I can't think of their names, but the race that killed Anakin's mother. With that said, I didn't take issue with Rey figuring out how to use one (most of the time she has to correct a miss or her target is close by) as much as I took issue with the Storm Trooper standing there and missing himself. But that's Star Wars for ya. 

And Rey was more flawed than you think. She is naive and self serving to a point. Just as Luke wanted to go on space adventures, not really caring about the Tyranny of the empire until he encounters it directly, Rey only wants to go home and wait for her family- at the expense of the conflict of the Galaxy. She's also not quite as brave as Luke. 

Edit: Forgetting to turn off the safety can be also be explained by saying her nerves were on edge. Maybe she knew how, but wasn't thinking properly, which would fit how the actress was portraying her (terrified).


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 28, 2015)

It's not like it's a capital sin of the of movie, it's just that you expect something a little more balanced on an ensemble cast with a legacy like star wars

I'm struggling to come up with a single accomplished in which any other character of the movie would have been involved, that Ren couldn't have plausibly done just as well, or better.


----------



## Bender (Dec 28, 2015)

@Martial Horror

Your calling SW The Force Awakens NOT as good as the original is grade-A terrible film rating.. Unlike Lucas's writing J.J Abrams actually knows how to not write himself into a corner. That and make the Storm troopers terrible.

Vault's avatar is proof of Storm troopers actually being competent. Furthermore, they actually have good aim and are able to take down a main character.


----------



## Atlas (Dec 28, 2015)

Bender said:


> @Martial Horror
> 
> Your calling SW The Force Awakens NOT as good as the original is grade-A terrible film rating.. Unlike Lucas's writing J.J Abrams actually knows how to not write himself into a corner. That and make the Storm troopers terrible.
> 
> Vault's avatar is proof of Storm troopers actually being competent. Furthermore, they actually have good aim and are able to take down a main character.



A trooper shot Leia.


----------



## Bender (Dec 28, 2015)

> So Vader was letting Luke cut him with his light saber, which obviously hurt as Vader cried out in pain? I personally think the Rey-Ren fight was a reverse of this one, where the loser was emotionally compromised while the victor was calm and collected.



Vader pushed Luke to the point that he lost his shit and wailed on Vader like a mad man until his arm was cut off. In The Empire Strikes Back, Vader had gotten too cocky and him thinking that little tool he was going to freeze Luke in just shows how big of an ego he has.

Also the reason Rey won was as Kylo said "She was just beginning to test her powers in the force". They were steadily growing little by little.



> But even if you're right, TFA makes a point of Vader>>>Ren and Luke (from Ep 4) is probably stronger than Rey.



Are you shitting me? 

DUDE, Vader wasn't shot in the gut like Ren was. Had Ren not taken the time to indulge in killing


*Spoiler*: __ 



Han Solo




He likely would've destroyed Rey in a fight.


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## Banhammer (Dec 28, 2015)

the troopers exterminated the Jedi and the bug genoan people


----------



## MartialHorror (Dec 28, 2015)

Bender said:


> @Martial Horror
> 
> Your calling SW The Force Awakens NOT as good as the original is grade-A terrible film rating.. Unlike Lucas's writing J.J Abrams actually knows how to not write himself into a corner. That and make the Storm troopers terrible.
> 
> Vault's avatar is proof of Storm troopers actually being competent. Furthermore, they actually have good aim and are able to take down a main character.



Huh? I'm not entirely sure what you're saying. You're calling me out on my claim that TFA is inferior to the original trilogy because you think otherwise? I'm presuming that you're referring to my sig, but if you read my review, I acknowledge that its objective quality is difficult to pinpoint because Star Wars is rooted in nostalgia. Maybe TFA>Original Trilogy, even though I personally don't agree, but it's hard for someone who grew up with the OT to be objective about it.



> Vader pushed Luke to the point that he lost his shit and wailed on Vader like a mad man until his arm was cut off. In The Empire Strikes Back, Vader had gotten too cocky and him thinking that little tool he was going to freeze Luke in just shows how big of an ego he has.
> 
> Also the reason Rey won was as Kylo said "She was just beginning to test her powers in the force". They were steadily growing little by little.


....huh? 



> Are you shitting me?
> 
> DUDE, Vader wasn't shot in the gut like Ren was. Had Ren not taken the time to indulge in killing



I'm aware. My point is that Rey had everything stacked in her favor, while Luke did not. Vader>Ren, and Ren was injured. If Ren was at full mental and physical health, he probably wouldn't beaten Rey. Everyone is placing Luke and Rey on the same scale, when Luke was against a more formidable foe. That's part of the reason why I dont consider her a Mary Sue, as she won due to Ren's weakness, not just her own strength.


----------



## Bender (Dec 28, 2015)

Atlas said:


> A trooper shot Leia.



Yeah, because she was distracted. 

That's like the only time they ever had a single victory in marksmanship. 

lol and it doesn't change the fact the stormtroopers were getting beat down by fucking stuffed teddy bears.


----------



## Atlas (Dec 28, 2015)

Bender said:


> Yeah, because she was distracted.
> 
> That's like the only time they ever had a single victory in marksmanship.
> 
> lol and it doesn't change the fact the stormtroopers were getting beat down by fucking stuffed teddy bears.



You can thank Lucas for that.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 28, 2015)

MartialHorror said:


> Question, what did Luke say he could pilot? I was under the impression that he had never left Tattooine, so it seems odd that he'd have the opportunity to pilot a space ship? I always presumed it was a low flyer he had experience with and it just happened to translate well into space piloting. Rey appears to be able to have some piloting abilities based on her original plan before she was forced to go in the Falcon. As for shooting, you got me there, but remember that this is the franchise where farmboy Luke can outshoot trained soldiers.


I don't recall Luke specifying what he could fly, but he wanted to be a pilot for the Rebel Alliance, and made a couple different comments about it iirc

as opposed to the first time Rey's mentioned to be capable of piloting a ship is when the plot requires her to pilot a ship

which, again, isn't a total stretch, her knowing how to pilot a ship. but it's her being able to pilot a ship _combined_ with everything else she can do.

and I know what you're gonna say: she had help from the Force, just like Anakin and Luke did. which is probably true; but unlike those two, they were at least established to have flown before, and weren't piloting a kind of ship that is difficult to man alone



> So Vader was letting Luke cut him with his light saber, which obviously hurt as Vader cried out in pain?


Someone can still get some licks in even if you're toying with them.

And I doubt ANH-Luke is stronger than TFA-Rey. Assuming you meant to say TESB-Luke, probably. You never know when it comes to Rey, though.



> So in that year, he had to recover from his injuries and prepare for Han's rescue, so had less time to become a Jedi Master.


Neither planning a rescue mission nor recovering from having his hand cut off would prevent him from meditating and shit over the course of a year.



> Yoda did teach him about the force, but we only see him being trained in using it to boost his physical abilities and move things around. This does not translate into mind tricks and force choking.


Yoda also teaches him the fundamentals of how the Force operates. With a greater understanding of how the Force works, it's not a stretch that, after four years of training, he'd figure out how to do mind tricks and choke people. The latter would be especially easy, assuming he didn't already know how to do it. It can't be far off from using telekinesis to grab things.



> If you're right though, consider this: Did Luke know of the force before Kenobi taught him anything?


No. He didn't know it existed prior to his conversation with Obi-Wan.



> Apparently if you're gifted, knowledge of the force can lead to you awakening certain abilities. Rey seems to know what the force is, although she doesn't realize it is real until confronted with it. This would explain how she knew she could manipulate the Storm Trooper.


Knowing something is possible for you to do =/= being capable of doing it



> Everyone presumes that it came from Ren's attempt to invade her mind, although have we ever seen a successful jedi mind trick used against someone force sensitive?


We've never seen someone attempt a mind trick on a Force sensitive person, but that doesn't change the fact that Rey resisted and reversed the technique after only hours of knowing she herself was Force sensitive.

Though I did like that scene.



> And Rey was more flawed than you think. She is naive and self serving to a point. Just as Luke wanted to go on space adventures, not really caring about the Tyranny of the empire until he encounters it directly


Not true; Luke aspired to join the Rebel Alliance.



> Rey only wants to go home and wait for her family- at the expense of the conflict of the Galaxy.


Is that true? Because she tried pretty hard to keep Finn from running away from helping the Resistance iirc

she only tried to run away once she got spooked out by Luke's lightsaber


----------



## Bender (Dec 28, 2015)

MartialHorror said:


> Huh? I'm not entirely sure what you're saying. You're calling me out on my claim that TFA is inferior to the original trilogy because you think otherwise? I'm presuming that you're referring to my sig, but if you read my review, I acknowledge that its objective quality is difficult to pinpoint because Star Wars is rooted in nostalgia. Maybe TFA>Original Trilogy, even though I personally don't agree, but it's hard for someone who grew up with the OT to be objective about it.



Nostalgia is a firm impediment in enjoying new material. However, it's also a good way to analyze new seasons of a television show, new entry in film series, etc. and acknowledge the failures of the predecessors.  

The failures of Luca's films are numerous. Only "A New Hope" and "Empire Strikes Back" is there any worth viewers time. All the other films is a straight-up gag marathon with terrible writing.

My point being that Abrams SW TFA you're able to accurately gauge how much potential the originals lacked in comparison to his. The announcement of SW TFA boosted anticipation of a new rewrite of the series following the release of the prequels. Nostalgia played no role in this film emergence.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 28, 2015)

Bender said:


> Vault's avatar is proof of Storm troopers actually being competent. Furthermore, they actually have good aim and are able to take down a main character.


Can you really call someone who sees an enemy in the distance, calls out to that enemy, sees said enemy has a sword, and instead of gunning him down, drops his gun and pulls out a melee weapon, competent?


----------



## Stunna (Dec 28, 2015)

Bender said:


> My point being that Abrams SW TFA you're able to accurately gauge how much potential the originals lacked in comparison to his. The announcement of SW TFA boosted anticipation of a new rewrite of the series following the release of the prequels. Nostalgia played no role in this film emergence.


How does the release of this movie reveal how the original movies lacked potential? Do their release and success not prove that they _did_ have potential?

And the promotion and success of TFA almost _completely_ revolved around nostalgia. The promotional material completely relied on nostalgic imagery, and TFA is being praised for "returning the series to its roots" (i.e. ripping off the original movies.)


----------



## Bender (Dec 28, 2015)

Just an FYI: Obi-Wan had to teach Luke about the force before he was able to use any force techniques. Rey only came into contact with the force after touching Anakin's old lightsaber.

And honestly, I personally find Rey's use of the force far more likable than making some ridiculously stupid and impossible shot that blows up the empire's death star.

This video eloquently elaborates on my disgust with the destruction of the first Death Star:

[YOUTUBE]agcRwGDKulw[/YOUTUBE]

Now lets look back at the battle of the Death Star

[YOUTUBE]2WBG2rJZGW8[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 28, 2015)

More or less.

She wants to go back home, but she is clearly set on having the rebellion affair sorted out before that. She also makes BB-8's safety her priority.

My interpretation of what happens after, is that once it become clear she has a higher role to play than bot courrier, she easily accepts it, the implications of it clearly excusing her from the moral decision plot she's been dragging around.


----------



## MartialHorror (Dec 28, 2015)

> I don't recall Luke specifying what he could fly, but he wanted to be a pilot for the Rebel Alliance, and made a couple different comments about it iirc
> 
> as opposed to the first time Rey's mentioned to be capable of piloting a ship is when the plot requires her to pilot a ship
> 
> ...



You're not wrong, I guess. Actually, if memory serves, Luke wanted to join the Empire (before he realized what it was). 



> Someone can still get some licks in even if you're toying with them.
> 
> And I doubt ANH-Luke is stronger than TFA-Rey. Assuming you meant to say TESB-Luke, probably. You never know when it comes to Rey, though.



Yeah, that's what I meant. Considering how badly Luke got his ass beat against those scavenger dudes, he probably sucked in hand-to-hand combat. 



> Neither planning a rescue mission nor recovering from having his hand cut off would prevent him from meditating and shit over the course of a year.


You do realize that meditation requires complete concentration? Maybe he can do that while recovering, but not planning. Also, he had to build his new lightsaber. 



> Yoda also teaches him the fundamentals of how the Force operates. With a greater understanding of how the Force works, it's not a stretch that, after four years of training, he'd figure out how to do mind tricks and choke people. The latter would be especially easy, assuming he didn't already know how to do it. It can't be far off from using telekinesis to grab things.



Four years? If that much time happened between ANH and TESB, he probably spent most of his time fighting and not training (as he still struggles to move things in the beginning of TESB). 


> Knowing something is possible for you to do =/= being capable of doing it



True, but you can easily apply the same logic to Luke blowing up the Death Star. 



> We've never seen someone attempt a mind trick on a Force sensitive person, but that doesn't change the fact that Rey resisted and reversed the technique after only hours of knowing she herself was Force sensitive.
> 
> Though I did like that scene.



Once again, for me, I took that more as Ren's weakness than Rey's strength. In fact, I was always under the impression that it only works on weak willed people (although this provides issues with continuity, unless Poe is also weak willed). Ren is obviously a weak willed person. He only really seems dangerous because he's the only one in this war that has been able to use the force at all. 



> Is that true? Because she tried pretty hard to keep Finn from running away from helping the Resistance iirc
> 
> she only tried to run away once she got spooked out by Luke's lightsaber



Earlier, she says she has to return to Jakku, prompting Finn to exasperatedly wonder what was with everyone wanting to go to Jakku.



> Nostalgia is a firm impediment in enjoying new material. However, it's also a good way to analyze new seasons of a television show, new entry in film series, etc. and acknowledge the failures of the predecessors.
> 
> The failures of Luca's films are numerous. Only "A New Hope" and "Empire Strikes Back" is there any worth viewers time. All the other films is a straight-up gag marathon with terrible writing.
> 
> My point being that Abrams SW TFA you're able to accurately gauge how much potential the originals lacked in comparison to his. The announcement of SW TFA boosted anticipation of a new rewrite of the series following the release of the prequels. Nostalgia played no role in this film emergence.



I'm not denying that the Original Trilogy has flaws and I dislike the prequels. My biggest complaint with Abrams film' is that there isn't any memorable scenes or lines (granted, this is hard to tell at this time) and relies a bit much on nostalgia (why was the Star Killer needed other than to have a new Death Star?).


----------



## Bender (Dec 28, 2015)

Stunna said:


> Can you really call someone who sees an enemy in the distance, calls out to that enemy, sees said enemy has a sword, and instead of gunning him down, drops his gun and pulls out a melee weapon, competent?



Yeah, I know he should've just shot Finn though then again the stormtrooper likely wanted to have the bragging right of taking down someone wielding a lightsaber.



> And the promotion and success of TFA almost completely revolved around nostalgia. The promotional material completely relied on nostalgic imagery,



Eh, I think TFA's success is more due to elation at someone else helming the SW films, and a newer conclusion for SW rather than the old films.



> and TFA is being praised for "returning the series to its roots" (i.e. ripping off the original movies.)



TFA is doing what New Hope could be with the new and Improved modern day CGI.


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 28, 2015)

Yes, but at the same time she assured Finn could take BB-8 back to "his" base


----------



## Bender (Dec 28, 2015)

MartialHorror said:


> That's part of the reason why I dont consider her a Mary Sue, as she won due to Ren's weakness, not just her own strength.


Firstly, I'm not in the camp of SW-^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) calling Rey a Mary Sue. Secondly, anyone referring to Rey as a Mary Sue has no debating credibility and if honestly believe that then consider all credibility gone.


----------



## MartialHorror (Dec 28, 2015)

Banhammer said:


> Yes, but at the same time she assured Finn could take BB-8 back to "his" base



Before ditching the conflict and returning home. Han Solo also seemed to want to ditch after getting BB-8 back. 

As for the Storm Trooper who fought Finn, I loved that because TFA- if anything- presented the Storm Troopers as individuals. That guy had a personal vendetta against Finn and wanted to beat him like a man.


----------



## Bender (Dec 28, 2015)

MartialHorror said:


> You're not wrong, I guess. Actually, if memory serves, Luke wanted to join the Empire (before he realized what it was).





No...

Luke wanted to join the rebellion







> True, but you can easily apply the same logic to Luke blowing up the Death Star.



The Death Star is another of Lucas's writing blunders. For all the talk of it being "the strongest weapon in the galaxy" it's easily destroyed because of some unbelievably impossible shot from a star fighter in a hole which was overlooked by the makers.










> I'm not denying that the Original Trilogy has flaws and I dislike the prequels. My biggest complaint with Abrams film' is that there isn't any memorable scenes or lines (granted, this is hard to tell at this time).





Right... nothing memorable about Abrams TFA

We have a Stormtrooper that actually able to beat someone wielding a lightsaber considering how fodder they were in the original.

The "Death Star" in TFA isn't a complete joke like the previous films of Lucas's SW films and Finn's tenure in the first order is the plot shield that saves the hero.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 28, 2015)

Bender said:


> And honestly, I personally find Rey's use of the force far more likable than making some ridiculously stupid and impossible shot that blows up the empire's death star.





MartialHorror said:


> True, but you can easily apply the same logic to Luke blowing up the Death Star.


I disagree; I don't think Rey's feats of using mind tricks and telekinesis on her third and first tries respectively are comparable to a skilled pilot and shooter hitting his target, which he did on account of being in position to take a shot at something comparable in size to creatures that he was accustomed to bullseying back home, with the _aid_ of the Force.

Plus, at least Luke was being coached. He didn't just do it on his own.



> You do realize that meditation requires complete concentration? Maybe he can do that while recovering, but not planning. Also, he had to build his new lightsaber.


And? You're saying that, in a whole year, Luke wouldn't have had time to heal, meditate, plan a one day operation alongside expert strategists, and build a lightsaber?



> Four years? If that much time happened between ANH and TESB, he probably spent most of his time fighting and not training (as he still struggles to move things in the beginning of TESB).


That much time passed between ANH and ROTJ; 3 between ANH and TESB, 1 between TESB and ROTJ.

And again, are you saying that, over the course of 4 years, Luke spent every hour of every day fighting?



Bender said:


> TFA is doing what New Hope could be with the new and Improved modern day CGI.


Wanting to update ANH with modern effects is not an excuse to rip off ANH. Which is still a better movie, in spite of its dated effects.


----------



## Bender (Dec 28, 2015)

@Stunna

ANH was hardly ripped off by TFA. If anything it's a more brilliantly written version of ANH.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 28, 2015)

Bender said:


> The Death Star is another of Lucas's writing blunders. For all the talk of it being "the strongest weapon in the galaxy" it's easily destroyed because of some unbelievably impossible shot from a star fighter in a hole which was overlooked by the makers.


Did you not literally just post a video defending the existence of the whole, and explaining how the shot was made with supernatural aid.



> Right... nothing memorable about Abrams TFA
> 
> We have a Stormtrooper that actually able to beat someone wielding a lightsaber considering how fodder they were in the original.


I saw that edit. And seeing as how that someone wielding a lightsaber wasn't a Jedi, it means squat.



> The "Death Star" in TFA isn't a complete joke like the previous films of Lucas's SW films and Finn's tenure in the first order is the plot shield that saves the hero.


So it's bigger and can deal more damage. The Starkiller Base was still a lazy idea.


----------



## MartialHorror (Dec 28, 2015)

Bender said:


> No...
> 
> Luke wanted to join the rebellion.



I just looked it up. he says he wants to join the Imperial Academy, although he says he hates the Empire AFTER he talks to Kenobi about it. 



> The Death Star is another of Lucas's writing blunders. For all the talk of it being "the strongest weapon in the galaxy" it's easily destroyed because of some unbelievably impossible shot from a star fighter in a hole which was overlooked by the makers.



To be fair, that's just the force. He wouldn't have made the shot on his own. No one would've. 



> Right... nothing memorable about Abrams TFA
> 
> We have a Stormtrooper that actually able to beat someone wielding a lightsaber considering how fodder they were in the original.
> 
> The "Death Star" in TFA isn't a complete joke like the previous films of Lucas's SW films and Finn's tenure in the first order is the plot shield that saves the hero



Is it any better that all it took was a sanitation workers knowledge to bring it down? Maybe I should've said 'not as memorable' instead. Even the prequels had memorable stuff though. We'd all probably like to forget Jar Jar Binks. But he aint going away from our memories. 

I will also remember "That is so wizard, Anny" until my dying day. I can't really recall a single line from TFA, for better or worse. Although I've seen the trailer enough to where I can quote that (most of the lines were changed for the film though).



> That much time passed between ANH and ROTJ; 3 between ANH and TESB, 1 between TESB and ROTJ.
> 
> And again, are you saying that, over the course of 4 years, Luke spent every hour of every day fighting?



No, but it showed that between ANH and TESB, he didn't train much in the force. Luke probably would've preferred action and fighting over mental preparation anyway, at least until it blew up in his face at the end of TESB.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 28, 2015)

Bender said:


> @Stunna
> 
> ANH was hardly ripped off by TFA. If anything it's a more brilliantly written version of ANH.


are you fucking serious, dawg


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 28, 2015)

MartialHorror said:


> Before ditching the conflict and returning home.



Not so much "ditching the conflict" as much as "doing everything you can for a thing you don't quite understand, before going back to your own shit"

You see this from the start, when she first helps BB-8


> Han Solo also seemed to want to ditch after getting BB-8 back.



Yeah, but Solo's got other shit going on that we get to play with in our minds.


----------



## MartialHorror (Dec 28, 2015)

Stunna said:


> are you fucking serious, dawg



I just realized we are debating with Bender, who has always had a reputation of not knowing what he was talking about and doing so with an obnoxious hostility.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 28, 2015)

Bender said:


> @Stunna
> 
> ANH was hardly ripped off by TFA. If anything it's a more brilliantly written version of ANH.


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 28, 2015)

Comparing A New Hope with the Force Awakens in a parallel is retarded. TFA builds on the OT's sucesses and the prequel's failures linearly.

It recreates ANH very, very well. It deserves respect for that, because ANH is something that was somewhat lost to for most people going in.

 The fact that it added little to it is a very fair criticism, but its just one that you're going to have to look over once the whole trilogy is out, and how the second and third movie diverge from the formula, and there's reason to be optimistic, judging by what The Force Awakens valued, and what it rejected


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 28, 2015)

guy, guys


----------



## Stunna (Dec 28, 2015)

TFA gets points for being competently made, and for being a step in the right direction after the prequel films. But, it will forever be marred by being so unoriginal. It blatantly copying the original movies isn't something that will be forgiven in retrospect, at least by myself.


----------



## MartialHorror (Dec 28, 2015)

I'm not going to deny that TFA borrowed a lot from ANH (and a little from TESB), but it was intended to evoke nostalgia. The reason why I like the movie is that it had that, while also doing its own thing. The only weakness in the narrative was the Star Killer, only because it simply existed for the sake of nostalgia and contributed little to the story. 

But it isn't trying to be a better version of it. It's not trying to recreate it. It's simply paying homage. Unlike "Jurassic World" and "Terminator Genysis" though, it isn't designed to do nothing but remind us of the awesomeness of the original.


----------



## Atlas (Dec 28, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> guy, guys



I heard that super ignore was pretty rad.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 28, 2015)

Atlas said:


> I heard that super ignore was pretty rad.


it's fuckin' great

if you don't have it? you're dumb. it's like going on the internet without adblock


MartialHorror said:


> I'm not going to deny that TFA borrowed a lot from ANH (and a little from TESB), but it was intended to evoke nostalgia. The reason why I like the movie is that it had that, while also doing its own thing. The only weakness in the narrative was the Star Killer, only because it simply existed for the sake of nostalgia and contributed little to the story.
> 
> But it isn't trying to be a better version of it. It's not trying to recreate it. It's simply paying homage. Unlike "Jurassic World" and "Terminator Genysis" though, it isn't designed to do nothing but remind us of the awesomeness of the original.


yeah


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 28, 2015)

In fact I would add that it was preferable to add to little to it, than too much as an overburden of set up is the single greatest sin of all franchise movies, and ANH itself was first meant to be a stand alone movie.


Now, the only criticism I have for it that is transversal to all movies is Rey.

It's ok if other people liked her though. She's no different than a hundred other heroes out there, that people, even myself enjoy.

Just, it didn't feel like it was the right choice



There are other minor criticisms of course, like the depiction of the republic and the empire, but they approach the nit picky


----------



## Atlas (Dec 28, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> it's fuckin' great
> 
> if you don't have it? you're dumb. it's like going on the internet without adblock



Never felt like I had a reason to do it. Might need it now. 


Question: How big is The First Order? Do they have any control over the galaxy or is there some sort of Republic? I would like to know just how much control the factions have.


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 28, 2015)

Considering how they oneshot the republic, which is what replaced the Empire, I'm guessing they're the biggest dogs out right now


----------



## MartialHorror (Dec 28, 2015)

On a quasi-similar note,

I believe Stunna once said that he was judging Rey as a character based only on this film and not what they might do with her for the sequels. I'm not sure if I agree with this, as even if Luke's weaknesses were more defined, they had 0 impact on the narrative (they do in TESB though). But what should they do with her character arc for the sequel?

I figure for Episode 8, they need to have her naivete and abandonment issues lead to a catastrophe, where she almost loses everything. Maybe Kylo Ren appeals to her, or Snoke gives a (false?) clue about her family, leading to her nearly losing everything. In episode 9, she needs to be much more vengeful, but unlike Luke she never gives into it. One of my issues with "ROTJ" (although this might come into play for the new trilogy) was that Luke would've given into his darkness if it weren't for Vader stopping him or the Emperor taunting him. He allowed himself to nearly be coaxed into darkness (and in a way, back into the light). Rey needs to make her decisions on her own, not influenced by anyone else.



> In fact I would add that it was preferable to add to little to it, than too much as an overburden of set up is the single greatest sin of all franchise movies, and ANH itself was first meant to be a stand alone movie.



This was actually why TESB wasn't particularly well liked when it first came out, as it was regarded as being too different. I personally hope that the sequels do their own thing, while fitting in line with the Star Wars mythos.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 28, 2015)

all these endless walls


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 28, 2015)

I don't think what Rey needs is to be able to do the things the old characters did only better.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 28, 2015)

Kylo needs to defeat her in the next film, or maybe Snoke needs to interfere. she needs  a proper drive for improvement.


----------



## Atlas (Dec 28, 2015)

Banhammer said:


> Considering how they oneshot the republic, which is what replaced the Empire, I'm guessing they're the biggest dogs out right now



That handful of planets was the entirety of the Republic? I'm still confused. I would think that most planets in the galaxy would all be under the Republic since there was likely not much else. It all depends on how big The First Order is. I guess I'm thinking of too much on how the prequels did it.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 28, 2015)

I didn't want something that would evoke a lot of nostalgia and remind me of other movies.

I wanted something_ new _and competent.


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 28, 2015)

If that was courousant, etc, then those were the capitals. (Like literally, the whole planet is covered by a city)

The diplomatic centre was simply wiped out, along with banks, temples, tactical military equipment, and so on.

They basically nuked New York and Washington


----------



## Atlas (Dec 28, 2015)

This seems to explain the situation more. Not sure how credible it is, though.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 28, 2015)

Stunna said:


> I didn't want something that would evoke a lot of nostalgia and remind me of other movies.
> 
> I wanted something_ new _and competent.



I guess abrams feel like the prequels got flack for being too different.

Or maybe he just wanted to bring ANH to a newer age. Hopefully the nostalgia trip reached it's destination.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 28, 2015)

> I guess abrams feel like the prequels got flack for being too different.



abrams knows what the prequels got flack for, in many ways TFA seemed like a movie made by a man who'd watched all three plinkett reviews. he put all the political exposition on the backburner in what was perhaps over-correction, shot on-location and avoided greenscreening everything, didn't clutter the frame, kept a consistent tone, included clear character motivations so you knew why people were doing what they did, had them behave believably, avoided over-choreographed ballet lightsaber fights, etc.

he just isn't all that imaginative


----------



## MartialHorror (Dec 28, 2015)

JJ Abrams is a good director, but for whatever reason, he has yet to achieve true greatness. I've liked everything he's done, but have yet to truly ejaculate over any of his works.


----------



## Kasuke Sadiki (Dec 28, 2015)

Stunna said:


> Can you really call someone who sees an enemy in the distance, calls out to that enemy, sees said enemy has a sword, and instead of gunning him down, drops his gun and pulls out a melee weapon, competent?



I'm sure the first thing they learn in anti-lightsaber training is "blasters are useless."


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 28, 2015)

MartialHorror said:


> JJ Abrams is a good director, but for whatever reason, he has yet to achieve true greatness. I've liked everything he's done, but have yet to truly ejaculate over any of his works.



you liked into darkness?


----------



## Stunna (Dec 28, 2015)

Kasuke Sadiki said:


> I'm sure the first thing they learn in anti-lightsaber training is "blasters are useless."


I guarantee you that people have had more success killing Jedi with blasters than with melee weapons


----------



## Mider T (Dec 28, 2015)

Order 66 was blaster based.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 28, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> you liked into darkness?



saw this one coming lol


----------



## MartialHorror (Dec 28, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> you liked into darkness?



Yup. I actually don't get why people hate it, although unlike Star Wars, Into Darkness used nostalgia in the worst way imaginable. I liked the movie when it was not trying to be "Wrath of Kahn".


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 28, 2015)

the Cumbergod alone is enough reason to like ID 






*Spoiler*: __ 




*Spoiler*: __ 



this post is not Lucaniel approved


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 28, 2015)

Weiss said:


> the Cumbergod alone is enough reason to like ID
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i'm glad you said you like it, actually. it's like getting xin's approval


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 28, 2015)

maybe I only liked it cause I havent seen anything of the pre-reboot Star Trek (yes)  just saw the 2009 and the ID, thats it, rest of my small ST knowledge is from internet, wikies and short youtube clips




.. naah, it was because of Cumberbatch


----------



## Mider T (Dec 28, 2015)

MartialHorror said:


> Yup. I actually don't get why people hate it, although unlike Star Wars, Into Darkness used nostalgia in the worst way imaginable. I liked the movie when it was not trying to be "Wrath of Kahn".



Why can a movie not be a nod to the original without people calling "hurr durr copy pasta"?


----------



## Stunna (Dec 28, 2015)

because a lot of filmmakers don't know the difference between paying homage and being unoriginal or distracting?


----------



## Mider T (Dec 28, 2015)

Give me examples.


----------



## Kuromaku (Dec 28, 2015)

I would have been more okay if the final battle had started with Finn *and* Rey going at Kylo. Maybe during this time, their teamwork has Finn just doing his best to hold off Kylo while Rey, who we know from earlier is capable of both using a staff and brawling on the mean streets of Jakku, maybe keeps hitting Kylo while he's trying to deal with Finn. Perhaps she even fights smart and keeps going for his wound, which initially pisses him off, then leaves him increasingly weakened as she keeps doing it because that fucking hurts. Eventually, Kylo is weakened enough and has had enough of having someone keep smacking him where he got shot, so he slams Rey into a tree like in the movie. Finn gets even more motivated and gets in a glancing hit off a visibly tired Kylo before getting taken out of the fight. The rest of the fight can proceed the way it did (although I'd maybe have Rey fight a bit smarter given that she actually has prior experience in street fights before resorting to the Force) now that we've seen Kylo weakened even further than in the film.

Also, today was the first time I saw someone defend the problems with this film by arguing that things made sense if people "paid closer attention," which reeks of some of the defenses for the PT.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 28, 2015)

Mider T said:


> Give me examples.


of derivative sequels?

do I really need to?


----------



## MartialHorror (Dec 28, 2015)

Mider T said:


> Why can a movie not be a nod to the original without people calling "hurr durr copy pasta"?



To me, the Wrath of Kahn moments just did not work. Spock yelling his name looked awkward (only a cornball like Shatner could do that) and Cumberbatch acted nothing like Kahn, with the white washing on display being cringe-inducing. 

The first Star Trek and now Star Wars did a better job at nodding towards the originals. "Into Darkness" was a lot of fun due to the pacing and intensity, but its nods towards WOK back-fired (Imo).


----------



## Stunna (Dec 28, 2015)

it was cringe-inducing af when Spock shouted "Khan" in the theater


----------



## Gilgamesh (Dec 29, 2015)

Weiss said:


> maybe I only liked it cause I havent seen anything of the pre-reboot Star Trek (yes)  just saw the 2009 and the ID, thats it, rest of my small ST knowledge is from internet, wikies and short youtube clips
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You have the worst taste in everything ever.


----------



## Turrin (Dec 29, 2015)

MartialHorror said:


> On a quasi-similar note,
> 
> I believe Stunna once said that he was judging Rey as a character based only on this film and not what they might do with her for the sequels. I'm not sure if I agree with this, as even if Luke's weaknesses were more defined, they had 0 impact on the narrative (they do in TESB though). But what should they do with her character arc for the sequel?
> 
> I figure for Episode 8, they need to have her naivete and abandonment issues lead to a catastrophe, where she almost loses everything. Maybe Kylo Ren appeals to her, or Snoke gives a (false?) clue about her family, leading to her nearly losing everything. In episode 9, she needs to be much more vengeful, but unlike Luke she never gives into it. One of my issues with "ROTJ" (although this might come into play for the new trilogy) was that Luke would've given into his darkness if it weren't for Vader stopping him or the Emperor taunting him. He allowed himself to nearly be coaxed into darkness (and in a way, back into the light). Rey needs to make her decisions on her own, not influenced by anyone else.


I really don't understand why people in this thread straight ignore all the failings Rey already had, and the proceed to complain that she's perfect or needs a fall in the next film. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



Like am I thee only one that actually was awake for the scene where Rey after touching Luke's lightsaber fled from her responsibilities and got captured by Kylo. Was I the only one awaken when Rey was helpless to save Han from death and Finn from being beaten to an inch of his life?




Rey had more failings than Luke in a ANH did and less triumphs. 

It's like all of that is ignored, because Rey manage to best an emotionally and physically handicapped Ren.


----------



## Mider T (Dec 29, 2015)

Stunna said:


> of derivative sequels?
> 
> do I really need to?



Yeah, otherwise you guys are just moaning about the next popular thing.  Pretty much a Cyphon or a Tetra.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 29, 2015)

wat

I liked the movie, but because I criticize it, I'm just moaning for the sake of being contrarian?

Mider Troll pls


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 29, 2015)

Turrin said:


> I really don't understand why people in this thread straight ignore all the failings Rey already had, and the proceed to complain that she's perfect or needs a fall in the next film.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...




None of what you mentioned count as failings, bruh.


----------



## MartialHorror (Dec 29, 2015)

Stunna said:


> wat
> 
> I liked the movie, but because I criticize it, I'm just moaning for the sake of being contrarian?
> 
> Mider Troll pls



To be fair, I like to hear you moan about things, 



> None of what you mentioned count as failings, bruh.



Running from her responsibilities isn't a failing? Admittedly, failing to 
*Spoiler*: __ 



save Han


 doesn't count as there is nothing she could've done.

Personally, I think TFA would've been a lot better if Jar Jar Binks was around.


----------



## Mider T (Dec 29, 2015)

Stunna said:


> wat
> 
> I liked the movie, but because I criticize it, I'm just moaning for the sake of being contrarian?
> 
> Mider Troll pls



You presented the argument and when I asked for examples, you started slacking on me.  

I would say change your name but Slacker is a well-known member here.


----------



## Mikaveli (Dec 29, 2015)

Missed the talk, but I'd definitely have a green lightsaber


----------



## Mikaveli (Dec 29, 2015)

MartialHorror said:


> To be fair, I like to hear you moan about things,



[YOUTUBE]P2fmZ2C2CdA[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## tari101190 (Dec 29, 2015)

I'm ready for Darth Ren.


----------



## BigPoppaPump (Dec 29, 2015)

Turrin said:


> I really don't understand why people in this thread straight ignore all the failings Rey already had, and the proceed to complain that she's perfect or needs a fall in the next film.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



None of those are failures of Rey though, Han getting killed and Finn getting a beat down is their own fault. Her running away from the light saber is minor, I don't remember it too well but I remember it being some weird shit calling her and when she touched it, it fucked with her? If so her running away isn't that big of a deal.

But yeah Rey was overpowered and a Mary Sue dunno why people are ignoring it. It's hella funny watching a dude 6ft+ struggle to fight some 5'5 chick tho


----------



## sworder (Dec 29, 2015)

MartialHorror said:


> Running from her responsibilities isn't a failing? Admittedly, failing to
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...



She didn't run, she freaked out for all of 5 minutes then came back stronger than ever


----------



## Bender (Dec 29, 2015)

Stunna said:


> Did you not literally just post a video defending the existence of the whole, and explaining how the shot was made with supernatural aid.



No. Read my post carefully. I was mocking how Luke made that shot which destroyed the death star.




> So it's bigger and can deal more damage. The Starkiller Base was still a lazy idea.



Please elaborate because not a single thing is lazy about it. The destruction of the Death star was something that was physica deying and utterly retardedly done.


----------



## Bender (Dec 29, 2015)

MartialHorror said:


> I just realized we are debating with Bender, who has always had a reputation of not knowing what he was talking about and doing so with an obnoxious hostility.



Dude, I look up my information. Also I'm hardly being obnoxious. Luke's friend Biggs was going to join the rebel alliance despite training at the imperial academy. Ere to fore Luke wanted to join the rebels and fight the empire.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 29, 2015)

Bender said:


> No. Read my post carefully. I was mocking how Luke made that shot which destroyed the death star.


why is that something to ridicule

the entire point of the sequence was that making that shot would have been impossible without the Force (i.e. divine intervention), but even then, Luke still had to utilize his skills as a pilot and shooter to be in the right position to make said shot

you probably shouldn't have posted the actual scene if you were trying to ridicule it; it's a fantastic one



> Please elaborate because not a single thing is lazy about it. The destruction of the Death star was something that was physica deying and utterly retardedly done.


you're joshing us; you have to be

>not a single thing is lazy about it
>it _is_ a _third_ Death Star; just bigger-er

man, why am I even having this conversation after you, quite frankly, obliterated _all _your cred on the subject by saying that TFA didn't rip-off ANH


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 29, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> you liked into darkness?



Well, I like spaceships

And I like Simon Pegg

And I like Zachary Quinto

And I like Eggs Benedecit with a Cucumberpatch

And I like Zoe Saldana

And I know you know what Chris Pine does to me


So as an exercise, I quite enjoyed Into the Darkness


----------



## Arishem (Dec 29, 2015)

Instead of the Death Star 3.0, they should've gone with a Super Star Destroyer with a planet destroyingwrecking laser. The idea of a ship that can just appear in system, ruin your world, and leave just as quickly is far more terrifying than a slow space station or planet-sized gun. You'd also get a nice psychological effect from the survivors along with the rest of the galaxy witnessing an intentional and unstoppable extinction event. The fear of where it appears next would throw the republic into chaos.


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 29, 2015)

Or they could go with a mind rape canon. Something that drains the Force out of stars to turn people into brain dead vegetables, no matter the shielding. Maybe only leaves like, some sort of people behind

Could really play up the ethnic cleansing bit with that


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 29, 2015)

blackhole gun


----------



## Arishem (Dec 29, 2015)

The main benefit to a SSD is that it can go on a string of attacks like a city-sized mass shooter rather than blowing its load in one go.


----------



## Bender (Dec 29, 2015)

Stunna said:


> why is that something to ridicule



A ridiculous lot of it is mock-worthy.

Seriously who the hell wouldn't make fun of the death star if its weakness was some exhaustion pipe?



> the entire point of the sequence was that making that shot would have been impossible without the Force (i.e. divine intervention), but even then, Luke still had to utilize his skills as a pilot and shooter to be in the right position to make said shot



So the force is appliable using even a bloody spaceship? Do you have any idea how full retard that shit is? I wouldn't mock it that type of use of the force is consistently used. 

It's called a deus ex machina. It's like saying the only way the death star can be destroyed is if someone randomly channels the force.






> you're joshing us; you have to be
> 
> >not a single thing is lazy about it
> >it _is_ a _third_ Death Star; just bigger-er




OMG dude did you even watch the film?

The fallacy behind the death star was the exhaustion pipe that lead into the middle of the space station and would lead to its destruction.

As long as someone was able to make a streamlined shot then it's history. That is lazy writing. 

The Star killer was able to be destroyed if it's defenses from the inside were disabled and exterior assault.

It's reloading system didn't take a day and it was based on an entire planet. Yeah, I don't think there's anything I feel like laughing at the Starkiller about.





> Man, why am I even having this conversation after you, quite frankly, obliterated _all _your cred on the subject by saying that TFA didn't rip-off ANH



TFA for one grossed a shit-ton of cash and distinguished itself as a whole different animal than ANH by not ripping off the premise of finding Obi-Wan which was the goal in the first half of the film. 

If anything that's the only thing that you can say is REMOTELY similar to ANH. 

Other than that it does splendidly in not humping the same plot points.

Oh, and sorry but TFA storm troopers are competent this time around. Lucas couldn't make Stormtroopers competent in his films if his life depended on it.


----------



## Bluebeard (Dec 29, 2015)

I will agree that I disliked Starkiller Base and found it overall too derivative of the Death Star.

I don't mind the First Order having a superweapon. They should've just been more creative in it's design and functionality. Like a bio-weapon or something would've been badass.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 29, 2015)

Stunna said:


> man, why am I even having this conversation after you, quite frankly, obliterated _all _your cred on the subject by saying that TFA didn't rip-off ANH



yes, why are you, you idiot


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 29, 2015)

lmao

I can't look at Bender's post without chuckling a little now.

Poor guy



Bluebeard said:


> I will agree that I disliked Starkiller Base and found it overall too derivative of the Death Star.
> 
> I don't mind the First Order having a superweapon. They should've just been more creative in it's design and functionality. Like a bio-weapon or something would've been badass.



I was also thinking "why not bio-weapon?"


----------



## Stunna (Dec 29, 2015)

super star destroyer? black hole weapon? mind rape cannon? biological warfare?

all of those would draw criticism for "not feeling like Star Wars", despite each one being a better idea than the Starkiller Base.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 29, 2015)

If I see a planet destroyer on the next Star Wars poster, I may just wait for the blu ray.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 29, 2015)

I prefer fleet vs fleet to a superweapon


with new design SSD 

Snokes flagship


----------



## Arishem (Dec 29, 2015)

Stunna said:


> super star destroyer? black hole weapon? mind rape cannon? biological warfare?
> 
> all of those would draw criticism for "not feeling like Star Wars", despite each one being a better idea than the Starkiller Base.


We already had a SSD in the Executor, but it wasn't super asides from being big and getting taken out by an A-wing crashing into its bridge .

I'd be down for some more conventional atrocities from the First Order. A Star Destroyer doing this to a Resistance/Republic city would be sweet. 
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpN4wl74CuE[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 29, 2015)

> *BOX OFFICE: THE FORCE AWAKENS Becomes The Highest Grossing STAR WARS Movie Of All-Time*
> 
> Unless it had been met with overwhelmingly negative reviews from fans and critics alike, it was always pretty obvious that Star Wars: The Force Awakens would break all sorts of box office records. However, the movie is doing so quicker than anyone ever expected, and it's already become the highest grossing instalment in this beloved franchise to date, topping The Phantom Menace's haul of $1.027 billion with $1.16 billion (though with inflation taken into account, it hasn't beaten A New Hope). As of right now, the J.J. Abrams helmed release is still on track to beat Avatar's domestic record of $760 million, and many analysts remain convinced that it will have no problem sailing past $2 billion, even if it doesn't manage to reach $2.7 billion by the end of its run. As of right now, Star Wars: The Force Awakens is the #4 movie of the year and the #10 movie of all-time, and it's going to keep on getting closer and closer to the top spot as the next few weeks go by.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 29, 2015)

> Star Wars: The Force Awakens is the *#4 movie of the year*


this shows how insane 2015 has been tbh


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 29, 2015)

yeah, having 4 films pass a billion is crazy

Edit: 5


----------



## Stunna (Dec 29, 2015)

Jurassic Park and Star Wars are bloody juggernauts.


----------



## Detective (Dec 29, 2015)

Nostalgia is OP


----------



## Bender (Dec 29, 2015)

W00t go Star Wars go Star Star Wars  


J.J Abrams you sir are da man. 


U deserve glomps from all fangirls around the world.  

Continue writing gold bro.


----------



## Bender (Dec 29, 2015)

Stunna said:


> all of those would draw criticism for "not feeling like Star Wars", despite each one being a better idea than the Starkiller Base.




Define "feeling like star wars".  

For a Star Wars film to be "Star Wars" there's always inclusion of the force, a death weapon  and mentorship of older figure to younger generation.

EDIT:

Hilariously enough, I don't think I heard a single person complain about the Star killer base in my theatre. A lot of overanalyzing and nostalgia.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 29, 2015)

Bender said:


> Define "feeling like star wars".


Go ask the people who criticized the prequels for not "feeling like Star Wars."



> For a Star Wars film to be "Star Wars" there's always inclusion of the force, a death weapon  and mentorship of older figure to younger generation.


Then where was this death weapon in TESB, TPM, AOTC, and ROTS?

Also, it's pretty random to assert that a Star Wars movie HAS to have an older figure mentoring a youngster.



> Hilariously enough, I don't think I heard a single person complain about the Star killer base in my theatre. A lot of overanalyzing and nostalgia.


100% irrelevant.


----------



## Atlas (Dec 29, 2015)

Arishem said:


> We already had a SSD in the Executor, but it wasn't super asides from being big and getting taken out by an A-wing crashing into its bridge .
> 
> I'd be down for some more conventional atrocities from the First Order. A Star Destroyer doing this to a Resistance/Republic city would be sweet.
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpN4wl74CuE[/YOUTUBE]



This is exactly what I wanted The First Order to do. Although, Hux's Hitler speech was pretty cool.


----------



## Harbour (Dec 29, 2015)

Hux speech was atrocious. When he almost ended it, my hand was prepared for a facepalm. When troopers raised their hands, i facepalmed.


----------



## Atlas (Dec 29, 2015)

Harbour said:


> Hux speech was atrocious. When he almost ended it, my hand was prepared for a facepalm. When troopers raised their hands, i facepalmed.



Heil
**


----------



## Deer Lord (Dec 29, 2015)

I just want JJ to bring back TR-8R for episodes 8&9.
Don't care how.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 29, 2015)

JJ isn't doing the sequels 

But yes TR-8R was awesome


----------



## Deer Lord (Dec 29, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> JJ isn't doing the sequels


It matters not.


----------



## Bender (Dec 29, 2015)

@Stunna

Wanna know what a Star Wars movie is?

It's a movie that doesn't have shit dialogue and rehashes same material. That's exactly what the prequels were. 

Return of the jedi was sign of Lucas slowly falling off his game. 

The stormtroopers were already mockable for their shit shooting accuracy and zero victories in ANH and Empire strikes back but Return of the jedi them losing to fucking teddy bears was lulzy as shit.

The most important peeves of Star Wars prequels was how unbelievably terrible the romance between Anakin and Padme is. Seriously, Lucas take a class in romantic dialogue or don't write it at all. Also Anakin is a complete and utter hot-headed blowhard. How someone that conceited and naive was looked at favorably is a mystery.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 29, 2015)

A bad Star Wars movie is still a Star Wars movie.

Quality =/= feeling like a Star Wars movie

even if I thought TFA was bad (which I don't), I'd still say it feels like Star Wars


----------



## HoroHoro (inactive) (Dec 29, 2015)

Haven't seen the new Star Wars yet, but going to later after New Years I think. Have been hearing almost universally positive opinions, that its surprisingly dark too, although a handful of negatives ones too such as Disney having supposedly watered it down to childish levels or that one of the characters is basically just a female super hero of absurd levels to cater to feminists.


----------



## BlazingInferno (Dec 29, 2015)

Do spoilers still need to be tagged? Saw the movie last night and loved it. I like the new characters, didn't expect Finn to have so much humor  I like Finn and Poe's broship, who should get a bigger role in the next movie.


----------



## Atlas (Dec 29, 2015)

HoroHoro said:


> Haven't seen the new Star Wars yet, but going to later after New Years I think. Have been hearing almost universally positive opinions, that its surprisingly dark too, although a handful of negatives ones too such as Disney having supposedly *watered it down to childish levels* or that one of the characters is basically just a female super hero of absurd levels to cater to feminists.



Never heard anyone say anything like this. The other stuff, yeah.


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 29, 2015)




----------



## Bender (Dec 29, 2015)

Atlas said:


>




*Shooting* victories.

That point flew over your head I take it. 

Vader is to credit for victory of Empire strikes back victory. Not the stormtroopers.

@Stunna

Bad movies should be direct-to-video. Not in theatres where you're scammed to pay big bucks for a hunk of shit flick.

Huh?


Okay, so by that logic even though Joel Schumacher's Batman movies were seen as unbelievably atrociously written you'd still count them as apart of the initial Batman film series? You'd still consider it Batman?


----------



## Bluebeard (Dec 29, 2015)

Damn I wish Captain Phasma was that badass in the actual movie.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 29, 2015)

BlazingInferno said:


> Do spoilers still need to be tagged?


It'd be nice, but you're not gonna get in any trouble if you don't. People should come into this thread at their own discretion, at this point.



Sennin of Hardwork said:


> -snip-


Where was this badass during the movie smh



Bender said:


> Okay, so by that logic even though Joel Schumacher's Batman movies were seen as unbelievably atrociously written you'd still count them as apart of the initial Batman film series? You'd still consider it Batman?


Duh? They're just atrocious Batman movies.

And they're in the same canon as the Burton movies, yes.


----------



## Atlas (Dec 29, 2015)

Bluebeard said:


> Damn I wish Captain Phasma was that badass in the actual movie.



That bish is trash. No point in her existence.


----------



## Mikaveli (Dec 29, 2015)

I'm not bothered by Phasma. Cool stormtrooper is still just a storm trooper


----------



## Stunna (Dec 29, 2015)

Promotional material aside (which is the main reason why anyone cares), I don't mind how Phasma didn't do anything in the movie. She still has another two movies to kick some major ass.


----------



## Gunners (Dec 29, 2015)

She's one of those characters that could work effectively in a spin off.


----------



## Atlas (Dec 29, 2015)

Stunna said:


> Promotional material aside (which is the main reason why anyone cares), I don't mind how Phasma didn't do anything in the movie. She still has another two movies to kick some major ass.



I certainly hope so. I would hate for her to get the Boba treatment.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 29, 2015)

She's gotten punk'd too soon to get the Boba treatment. At least he maintained the badass facade for a whole movie.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 29, 2015)

one thing I really like from SW are their ground and air vehicles and transports

hope to see more fo those


----------



## Tom Servo (Dec 29, 2015)

Bluebeard said:


> Damn I wish Captain Phasma was that badass in the actual movie.


----------



## Bluebeard (Dec 29, 2015)

They should've just gave Phasma TR-8R's moment.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 29, 2015)

Bluebeard said:


> They should've just gave Phasma TR-8R's moment.



Thought the same for a while now, actually.


----------



## Raidoton (Dec 29, 2015)

Stunna said:


> Promotional material aside (which is the main reason why anyone cares), I don't mind how Phasma didn't do anything in the movie. She still has another two movies to kick some major ass.


I don't know if she can recover from that big fuck up. Disabling the shields was dumber than anything Jar Jar did.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 29, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> Stunna said:
> 
> 
> > man, why am I even having this conversation after you, quite frankly, obliterated _all _your cred on the subject by saying that TFA didn't rip-off ANH
> ...



he's still doing it


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 29, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> If I see a planet destroyer on the next Star Wars poster, I may just wait for the blu ray.



Boy, you in NF, you use OBD lingo

It's "Planet Buster"


----------



## Stunna (Dec 29, 2015)

you know what they say about old habits


----------



## Mider T (Dec 29, 2015)

Stunna said:


> It'd be nice, but you're not gonna get in any trouble if you don't. People should come into this thread at their own discretion, at this point.
> 
> 
> Where was this badass during the movie smh
> ...



Batman Forever was one the best Batman movie until The Dark Knight.


----------



## Vault (Dec 29, 2015)

Tr-8R the true MVP 

Been saying that for a minute. That baton wielding


----------



## Rukia (Dec 29, 2015)

I just saw an advertisement for toys that had a Captain Phasma edition.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 30, 2015)

TR-8R? Who--

--Oh. That's cute.


----------



## Kuromaku (Dec 30, 2015)

I wonder if they're going to do a running gag where Phasma gets humiliated in each film. Maybe in Episode VIII, she'll look like she's about to finally do something badass only to find her moment in the spotlight rudely interrupted (even Boba Fett got knocked off a barge by a blind man).

Meanwhile, TR-8TR comes back from his seemingly fatal injuries as a cyborg with modifications. He spends the movie chasing down Finn and beating the disloyalty out of him, becoming like what Grievous was in the Genndy CW series.

We can all dream.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 30, 2015)




----------



## Legend (Dec 30, 2015)




----------



## Deer Lord (Dec 30, 2015)




----------



## BlazingInferno (Dec 30, 2015)

I wonder if TR-8R's popularity will bring him back for the next one


----------



## Deer Lord (Dec 30, 2015)

I fully expect Multiple dual wielding TR-8Rs to hunt Finn in ep.VIII.


----------



## Legend (Dec 30, 2015)




----------



## Stunna (Dec 30, 2015)

Man, I'd hope not.


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 30, 2015)




----------



## Zeta42 (Dec 30, 2015)

Rewatched the moment when Rey defeats Ren. It didn't look like he lost any body parts, however I definitely saw something black fall next to him when he went down. Another piece of his cape, or his right hand that wasn't shown after that?

LOL, losing the right hand is a sign of a true Skywalker.


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 30, 2015)

> *BOX OFFICE: STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS Tops IRON MAN 3 Worldwide*
> 
> Iron Man 3 is no longer the ninth highest grossing movie of all-time after Star Wars: The Force Awakens has hit $1.23 billion to beat it to that spot yesterday. With it now only the fifth movie in history to earn $600 million in North America, the J.J. Abrams helmed release continues to exceed expectations, and joins an elite club which is made up of The Avengers ($623.4 million), Jurassic World ($652.3 million), Titanic ($658.7 million), and Avatar ($760.5 million). However, it will soon top them all by beating Avatar's record by the end of this weekend, and some analysts maintain that the movie will go on to earn as much as $1 billion domestically. We'll have a much better idea if Star Wars: The Force Awakens stands a chance of beating Avatar's worldwide haul of $2.7 billion when it reaches China next month, and things are certainly looking very good as of right now.


----------



## Mikaveli (Dec 30, 2015)

Ren didn't lose any limbs. It was part of his cape. If he lost a limb they would've made a point to emphasize it.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 30, 2015)

Legend said:


>


what?


----------



## sworder (Dec 30, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> what?



finn = fin

rey = manta ray

don't see the humor but yeah


----------



## Fang (Dec 30, 2015)

Stunna said:


> even if I thought TFA was bad (which I don't), I'd still say it feels like Star Wars



TFA wasn't bad but it didn't feel at all like Star Wars.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 30, 2015)

i thought there had to be more to it than that, rip 

like a finding nemo analogy or something


----------



## Mikaveli (Dec 30, 2015)

How didn't it feel like Star Wars?  If it did nothing else, it did that.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 30, 2015)

Super Mike said:


> How didn't it feel like Star Wars?  If it did nothing else, it did that.



not enough cartoon rabbits stepping in the poopy


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 30, 2015)

i think tr-8r is the stormtrooper i always imagined the first time i saw a stormtrooper < 3


----------



## Fang (Dec 30, 2015)

Super Mike said:


> How didn't it feel like Star Wars?  If it did nothing else, it did that.



It didn't.

Joss Whedon tier dialogue doesn't fit in the Star Wars universe for one. It didn't feel like Star Wars to me, that simple.


----------



## Mikaveli (Dec 30, 2015)

:eyeroll                   .


----------



## Fang (Dec 30, 2015)

Be salty about it I guess


----------



## Mikaveli (Dec 30, 2015)

I'm not salty, it just seems silly to me lol


----------



## Fang (Dec 30, 2015)

>make a valid critique of the movie and point out one of its flaws
>silly

JJIDF pls


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 30, 2015)

Abrams should've made Rey monologue about sand.


----------



## Fang (Dec 30, 2015)

Abrams should've actually fleshed out Rey as a character but I guess the point went over your head too

Whatever

Stay salty


----------



## Detective (Dec 30, 2015)

I agree with Fang. The whole thing seemed like a nostalgia parody, using rehashed SW tropes to push it along.

Like I mentioned earlier, it was essentially a cookie cutter vanilla safe attempt at a film by Abrams. Absolutely zero creativity at all.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 30, 2015)

abrams should have made finn try to rape rey and talk about how he wanted to cuck the white race before rey killed him, rejected poe for being non-white, and ended up with porkins jr

MOTY confirmed


----------



## Fang (Dec 30, 2015)

Lucy

You really are a poster child for mental disability and autistic projecting


----------



## Parallax (Dec 30, 2015)

Dat irony doe


----------



## Fang (Dec 30, 2015)

>Laxative post


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 30, 2015)

Fang said:


> Abrams should've actually fleshed out Rey as a character but I guess the point went over your head too
> 
> Whatever
> 
> Stay salty



I agree it would have helped..

But where did you make this point? All I read you say is that it was "Joss Whedon tier dialogue" because it didn't come off robotic and straight forward.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 30, 2015)

well, Fang has a point: a lot of the dialogue (notably from Finn) did not feel like Star Wars

but even if it's in a superficial sense, I'd still say TFA overall felt like a Star Wars picture


----------



## Fang (Dec 30, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> I agree it would have helped..
> 
> But where did you make this point? All I read you say is that it was "Joss Whedon tier dialogue" because it didn't come off robotic and straight forward.



Joss Whedon tier dialogue should be pretty much an acknowledgement to anyone that the dialogue in TFA was largely cliche tacky one liners and transparently obvious comedic attempts at making characters come off "quirky" 

And JJ's script had dialogue that doesn't fit in the mythos

And Finn speaking like a cookiecutter sterotypical cliche black man from a Tyler Perry move:

"Aw hell naw"
"Droid please"
"Do you have a boyfriend? A cute boyfriend?"

I can go on.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 30, 2015)

Stunna said:


> well, Fang has a point: a lot of the dialogue (notably from Finn) did not feel like Star Wars
> 
> but even if it's in a superficial sense, I'd still say TFA overall felt like a Star Wars picture





No one is claiming the dialogue's the same.


----------



## sworder (Dec 30, 2015)

the movie is funny, it's no longer star wars!


----------



## Stunna (Dec 30, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> No one is claiming the dialogue's the same.


...okay?

and is dialogue not a factor taken into account when you're determining if an installment feels like others in its series?


----------



## Fang (Dec 30, 2015)

Gunners said:


> 50% of the Star Wars films before he TFA had shit dialogue. Bit weird to act as though there is a gold standard.



That not what we are talking about at all.



sworder said:


> the movie is funny, it's no longer star wars!



>Finn's lines
>that whole scene with Ren and Poe
>"funny"

Nah


----------



## Stunna (Dec 30, 2015)

TFA could have the best screenplay ever written and still fail to feel like a Star Wars movie


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 30, 2015)

sworder said:


> the movie is funny, it's no longer star wars!


----------



## sworder (Dec 30, 2015)

Stunna said:


> ...okay?
> 
> and is dialogue not a factor taken into account when you're determining if an installment feels like others in its series?



yes, but the complaint is basically that the character is funny

which implies that basically, in the star wars universe, someone having a sense of humor is out of place

which is far from true


----------



## Stunna (Dec 30, 2015)

sworder said:


> yes, but the complaint is basically that the character is funny


no, it isn't

it'd be more accurate to say that the complaint is _how_ the characters are funny


----------



## Parallax (Dec 30, 2015)

Fang said:


> >Laxative post



Yeeee instant green text and img

I made it


----------



## tari101190 (Dec 30, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Fang (Dec 30, 2015)

sworder said:


> yes, but the complaint is basically that the character is funny
> 
> which implies that basically, in the star wars universe, someone having a sense of humor is out of place
> 
> which is far from true



Not only did you miss what I said but you're totally off the rails

I didn't say anything about funny

I said Finn's lines were bad and the times the movie tries to be funny with what the characters say tends to fall flat on its face

Like the entire scene with Ren and Poe's interactions and Finn and Phasama in the second half of the movie


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 30, 2015)

Stunna said:


> ...okay?
> 
> and is dialogue not a factor taken into account when you're determining if an installment feels like others in its series?



Not in this case; it doesn't. as you said yourself:



Stunna said:


> , I'd still say TFA overall felt like a Star Wars picture



Which is what's being argued here.


----------



## Fang (Dec 30, 2015)

Parallax said:


> Yeeee instant green text and img
> 
> I made it


----------



## tari101190 (Dec 30, 2015)

WHAT ARE YOU DOING STUNNA


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 30, 2015)

Stunna said:


> no, it isn't
> 
> it'd be more accurate to say that the complaint is _how_ the characters are funny



We shoulda watched alien cattle taking a shit


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 30, 2015)

DAS STAR WARS FAM


----------



## Stunna (Dec 30, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> Not in this case; it doesn't. as you said yourself:
> 
> 
> 
> Which is what's being argued here.


it is, though

the dialogue not feeling like Star Wars at times _was_ taken into account when I determined if the movie felt like Star Wars or not

my conclusion doesn't mean that the dialogue wasn't a factor against it; it just means I met my conclusion _in spite of_ the factor


----------



## Stunna (Dec 30, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> We shoulda watched alien cattle taking a shit





~Gesy~ said:


> DAS STAR WARS FAM


why are you posting this towards me?

again, I said that TFA feels like a SW movie; even if it only does on a superficial level


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 30, 2015)

I'll just chalk it up to another lose/lose scenario when making this film.

Since Lucas's Dialogue in his SW films was often joked and meme'd about in a poor manner. So how do you change the dialogue _and_ keep it the same SW dialogue?


----------



## Parallax (Dec 30, 2015)

Oh shit repeat time

Let's see how long this keeps up


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 30, 2015)

~Gesy~ said:


> I'll just chalk it up to another lose/lose scenario when making this film.
> 
> Since Lucas's Dialogue in his SW films was often joked and meme'd about in a poor manner. So how do you change the dialogue _and_ keep it the same SW dialogue?



man...

what stunna is talking about is cadences, colloquialisms, and speech patterns. this is how people in the sw original trilogy spoke

*Spoiler*: __ 




some of them spoke with perfect grammar, few contractions, and an elevated, formal-sounding register:



> "General Kenobi. Years ago you served my father in the Clone Wars. Now he begs you to help him in his struggle against the Empire. I regret that I am unable to present my father's request to you in person, but my ship has fallen under attack, and I'm afraid my mission to bring you to Alderaan has failed. I have placed information vital to the survival of the Rebellion into the memory systems of this R2 unit. My father will know how to retrieve it. You must see this droid safely delivered to him on Alderaan. This is our most desperate hour. Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi. You're my only hope."



the reason people remember "help me, obi-wan kenobi. you're my only hope." is because it's intentionally the part of that rather formal-sounding expository speech with all of its slightly affected rhetorical figures ("i'm afraid that", "i regret that i am unable", "he begs you"), that sounds _genuine_, because it's short and to the point and unvarnished

the same with: "i love you"/"i know"

obi-wan spoke in a similar way to leia, except sometimes even more old-timey sounding. like a stage actor rather than a diplomat: 



> "I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened." "You can't win, Darth. If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.", "Mos Eisley spaceport: You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy."



when leia wasn't speaking overtly formally, she still sounded upper-class, but with more wit: "_It's a wonder_ you're still alive.", "Aren't you_ a little_ short for a stormtrooper?"  the stuff i've italicised is what makes it sound a little affected

then you have han, who also spoke in a slightly dated-sounding way, but his speech was rougher, more american. he used words like "hokey". he called luke "kid". "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." but he didn't have perfect grammar, he sometimes spoke in sentence fragments, "Boring conversation anyway.", "Large leak, very dangerous."

people from the empire spoke, of course, like british aristocrats, similarly to leia in diplomat mode:



> General Tagge: What of the Rebellion? If the Rebels have obtained a complete technical reading of this station, it is possible, however unlikely, they might find a weakness and exploit it.
> Darth Vader: The plans you refer to will soon be back in our hands.
> Admiral Motti: Any attack made by the Rebels against this station would be a useless gesture, no matter what technical data they have obtained. This station is now the ultimate power in the universe! I suggest we use it!
> Darth Vader: Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.
> Admiral Motti: Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerer's ways, Lord Vader. Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjure up the stolen data tapes, or given you clairvoyance enough to find the rebels' hidden fort-...



luke spoke more like a normal person, but from a modern perspective he still spoke with some dated-sounding phrases and fewer sentence fragments and generally solid grammar



> Look, I can't get involved. I've got work to do. It's not that I like the Empire; I hate it, but there's nothing I can do about it right now... It's all such a long way from here.


"such a long way"



> Luke Skywalker: [indicating R2-D2] This little droid. I think he's searching for his former master. I've never seen such devotion in a droid before. Ah, he claims to be the property of an Obi-Wan Kenobi. Is he a relative of yours? Do you know what he's talking about?



this one is even more apparent. "i've never seen such devotion", "former master", it's a little more formal than you'd hear from a 18-20 year old kid nowadays



tl;dr, people in the sw OT talked old-timey with generally immaculate grammar, slightly dated figures of speech, and fewer contractions, among other things. this wasn't just because it was written in the 70s, considering so was Mean Streets, this was because that stylisation of the dialogue was intentionally meant to create a remove from modern-day speech patterns

but finn talks exactly like someone from the 21st century

"i'm a big deal", "can you un-fix it?", and a lot of other things. it stands out


----------



## sworder (Dec 30, 2015)

Fang said:


> Not only did you miss what I said but you're totally off the rails
> 
> I didn't say anything about funny
> 
> ...



whedon had thor saying one liners, iron man had one liners, captain america had one liners, hulk had one liners

here it's just finn. is it not possible for 1 character to be a lame jokester? i don't see the problem, it's not like they had princess leia telling jokes

dunno about the poe and ren scene, was normal to me. seemed straight out of a star was video game


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 30, 2015)

the more jokes the better


----------



## Mikaveli (Dec 30, 2015)

Fang said:


> >make a valid critique of the movie and point out one of its flaws
> >silly
> 
> JJIDF pls



It looks like you're the salty one lol

Tbh, Star Wars dialogue has always been lackluster to cringeworthy. This film was no different, it was decent. Didn't change how it felt to me. If anything it felt like it was pandering to the OT too much. 

But yeah, I noticed the dialogue had a different feel in some parts, mostly with the new characters. But everything else I'm not seeing it. I called it silly because its such a vague and nitpicky thing to say. Like "dis aint mah OT dammit so its trash". Old mannish I guess


----------



## Mikaveli (Dec 30, 2015)

Han still spoke like Han. Leia still spoke like Leia. The old guy, Snoke, even Manz sounded "like Star Wars". 

The only people breaking the formula are Finn and Poe. Rey to a lesser extent.


----------



## Fang (Dec 30, 2015)

Maz was a literal plot device

Who cares how she talks

And Fisher's acting was shit so I can't tell you if she sounded "like Leia" even after seeing the movie a second time yesterday with a friend


----------



## Mikaveli (Dec 30, 2015)

Why are you so mad? I liked TFA, I didn't think it was flawless. I was actually disappointed with the movie in some regards. Why are you so bothered? All I did was comment on your opinion.

It was a safe movie. It pandered too much. Didn't introduce new ideas. Don't like how they did the Finn character at all really. Leia was kinda bad. They didn't try to explain why Rey could do what she could, at all.

But it was fun. It was pretty. I liked the humor. The fights weren't dances, and were actually cool. And I'm excited for the story in general.

Sorry I hurt your feelings tho, I guess.



Fang said:


> Maz was a literal plot device
> 
> Who cares how she talks
> 
> And Fisher's acting was shit so I can't tell you if she sounded "like Leia" even after seeing the movie a second time yesterday with a friend



I agree. My point was outside of Poe/Finn the dialogue was pretty Star Warsy to me. Idk.

And Leia was bad, really bad. Still spoke like Leia though.


----------



## Fang (Dec 30, 2015)

Super Mike said:


> Why are you so mad?



I'm not. 




> I liked TFA, I didn't think it was flawless. I was actually disappointed with the movie in some regards. Why are you so bothered? All I did was comment on your opinion.-



Re-read what I said.



> It was a safe movie.



Which was boring to me and others. They didn't push the envelope, they didn't introduce new ideas, they just recycled the Original Trilogy where its largely end up being "running from things: every arc".

Some of us don't care for that.



> t pandered too much. Didn't introduce new ideas. Don't like how they did the Finn character at all really. Leia was kinda bad. They didn't try to explain why Rey could do what she could, at all.



Agreed.



> But it was fun. It was pretty. I liked the humor. The fights weren't dances, and were actually cool. And I'm excited for the story in general.



The humor was awful and I don't like the lightsaber fight choreography they did with Episode VII. 




> Sorry I hurt your feelings tho, I guess.



>implying



> I agree. My point was outside of Poe/Finn the dialogue was pretty Star Warsy to me. Idk.



Debatable. 



> And Leia was bad, really bad. Still spoke like Leia though.



Maybe. Her acting was pretty wooden and stiff so its hard to say that.


----------



## Mikaveli (Dec 30, 2015)

Looks like we feel the same way, but the dialogue/humor just bothered you more.

I didn't care for the dialogue, but I didn't mind because I haven't cared for it in almost any Star Wars movie. I did like the humor though.

Didn't mean to come off as a dick, if I did. I just thought it was silly. But I get what you mean more, now.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 30, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> man...
> 
> what stunna is talking about is cadences, colloquialisms, and speech patterns. this is how people in the sw original trilogy spoke
> 
> ...



Different generations comes with different mannerisms?

Nah I get what you're saying, I guess I didn't think it was that deep. Finn being a 21st century man could have been deliberately done as a way to put the audience into the film, maybe? Someone the audience can look at and say  "Hey, I'm that guy"? Not a retort, just a thought.

In either case, the dialogue was criticized for being flawed, So I can't fault him for going his own way with it.  But yeah it was much looser here.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 30, 2015)

this old cunt is going off the rails


----------



## dream (Dec 30, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> this old cunt is going off the rails



         . 

Anyways, I found TFA to be a decent movie but nothing truly special.  Better than the prequels for certain but that isn't hard to achieve.


----------



## Gilgamesh (Dec 30, 2015)

Not better than TPM and ROTS


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 30, 2015)

Gilgamesh said:


> TPM


how do you live with yourself lol


----------



## Stunna (Dec 30, 2015)

*?Star Wars: The Force Awakens? Originally Had a Different Yet Familiar Title




			By now, many are aware that Star Wars: Episode VII did not miraculously begin with the story we now see onscreen. In fact, the story we see onscreen was even being tinkered with in the months up to release (see: Maz Kanata?s reshot scenes). So given the lengthy development period for Episode VII, it stands to reason that at one point or another, the film had a title other than The Force Awakens. Indeed it did, and now that alternate title has been revealed.

Pablo Hidalgo, a creative executive for Lucasfilm?s Story Group?which oversees story development on everything from the new films to games to comic books?revealed on Twitter (via /Film) that Episode VII was actually titled Star Wars: Shadow of the Empire for quite some time.

If that title sounds familiar, you?re not crazy. Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire was the title of a 1996 Expanded Universe novel and also a Nintendo 64 video game. Now I highly doubt J.J. Abrams and original screenwriter Michael Arndt were mining the EU for story ideas, but it is a funny coincidence and one that I?m sure Lucasfilm was happy to avoid when the title became The Force Awakens.

Arndt previously revealed that one of the film?s original story ideas had the heroes searching for Darth Vader?s remains, and if Vader?s presence loomed large as the movie?s MacGuffin?including an onscreen appearance by Ghost Vader?the Shadow of the Empire title makes sense. As it stands now, though, with the story that Abrams and co-writer Lawrence Kasdan settled on, The Force Awakens is much more apt.

Here?s hoping more behind-the-scenes nuggets like this continue to eek out. I?m loving this stuff.
		
Click to expand...

*​


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 30, 2015)

Too cliche


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Dec 30, 2015)

So originally it was based on some Marvel Vader stories(force ghost Vader showing up, searching for artifacts of Vader) and named from a game/novel.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 30, 2015)

lol @ Lucas


enjoy your 4B


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 30, 2015)

I wonder if he regrets the decision..

not like he needed the money


----------



## Mikaveli (Dec 30, 2015)

He said he regretted in the interview


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 30, 2015)

he's bawling because tfa is not only wildly successful but generally well-liked, unlike the prequels, while being a total rejection of them, in which he had zero creative input

he's being creatively cuckolded

i enjoy his suffering


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 30, 2015)

Super Mike said:


> He said he regretted in the interview



Yeah, I'm just wondering if this is just a phase from having "his kids leave the hen house" or if this is legitimately going to be one of his regrets in life.


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 30, 2015)




----------



## Banhammer (Dec 30, 2015)

Wait


I just got the TR-8R joke



daaaaaaaaaaaaaamn, but the force is thick on this one


----------



## sworder (Dec 30, 2015)

Gilgamesh said:


> Not better than TPM and ROTS





the only good thing about TPM are the 10 minutes in which darth maul is fighting, everything else is awful

which reminds me, I kinda want the double-bladed lightsaber to make a comeback in the next film


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 30, 2015)




----------



## Gilgamesh (Dec 30, 2015)

The podrace is better than anything in TFA

Plus Qui-Gon has more personality and is more likable than everyone in TFA combined


----------



## Stunna (Dec 30, 2015)

I do stand by my saying that nothing in TFA will be remembered like pod racing in TPM.


----------



## Gunners (Dec 30, 2015)

Pod racing is forgettable. Han Solo getting merked isn't.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 30, 2015)

Pod racing is forgettable? I dunno, man; there seems to be quite a few things over the course of the past 15 years that prove that claim wrong.


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 30, 2015)

My most memorable icons of TFA, by order

Han solo getting ganked

TR-8R

The sith CROSS SABER

The giant Sith Lord hologram

Chewbaca shagging a yellow midget 

SPACE NAZIS and the forest out line as the DEATH BEAM SHOT INTO SPACE

Soccerbot


----------



## The Runner (Dec 30, 2015)

Banhammer said:


> My most memorable icons of TFA, by order
> 
> Han solo getting ganked
> 
> ...



Oh yes...

That happened...


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 30, 2015)

Who else is betting that Snoake is like, only five foot tall, and the hologram thing is a trick


Even better, what if he's just a smurf?


----------



## Stunna (Dec 30, 2015)

And using the death of Han Solo as something that will be immortalized in the franchise is sort of cheating? Like, yeah, of course it will, but that event isn't something that wholly belongs to TFA. The impact of Han dying comes from us getting to know him from 3 previous movies. The scenario in which he died -- a father and son confronting one another on a thin bridge overlooking a bottomless chasm -- is imagery borrowed from TESB.

The things that will stand out in people's memories about that scene are owed not to TFA, but to the OT.


----------



## RAGING BONER (Dec 30, 2015)

Gilgamesh said:


> The podrace is better than anything in TFA
> 
> Plus Qui-Gon has more personality and is more likable than everyone in TFA combined





Stunna said:


> I do stand by my saying that nothing in TFA will be remembered like pod racing in TPM.


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 30, 2015)

Depends on whether or not you think the portrayal of Han is sustained throughout tfa at the same level it was in the OT, which I think you can say yes.

It's added impact comes also from the fac that Han has been immortally young in your mind for thirty years. This added gut punch falls more in the tfa than it does in the OT imo


----------



## Gunners (Dec 30, 2015)

It's not cheating. You're the one who made the broad claim that nothing in TFA will be remembered like Pod Racing. Han's death was in TFA.

And Podracing is forgettable. If I think to the prequels, Podracing is at the bottom of the list of things that stand out.


----------



## sworder (Dec 30, 2015)

Banhammer said:


> My most memorable icons of TFA, by order
> 
> Han solo getting ganked
> 
> ...



all those, plus

kylo ren's rage outbursts

stopping blaster laser in midair (it was damn cool)

the most memorable aspect of TPM was me yawning at how boring all the exposition was... and how bad jarjar was


----------



## Vault (Dec 30, 2015)

TR-8R is the goat


----------



## Stunna (Dec 30, 2015)

Gunners said:


> It's not cheating. You're the one who made the broad claim that nothing in TFA will be remembered like Pod Racing. Han's death was in TFA.


Cheating was a bad way to put it; it's not cheating.

But my biggest problem with TFA is how unoriginal it is. Han's death is a moment from TFA that will be immortalized, but it's a moment where the impact is derived largely from nostalgia rooted in other movies.

So maybe I should specify: nothing _original_ in TFA is going to be remembered like pod racing.



> And Podracing is forgettable. If I think to the prequels, Podracing is at the bottom of the list of things that stand out.


I dunno what to tell you then, man.


----------



## sworder (Dec 30, 2015)

ngl, I had forgotten pod racing was a thing until you guys brought it up


----------



## Stunna (Dec 30, 2015)

Hey, maybe it's just me, but there just weren't any moments where I just felt that...*click* like "this is going to be looked back on as a classic moment." 

I mean, there were really cool moments, but...I dunno. Movie just didn't have enough of its own personality. I found myself too often distracted by imagery that just reminded me of cool moments from other Star Wars movies. Like Kylo freezing the blaster bolt. That was no doubt a cool moment. But I doubt I'll look back at that as a "classic" Star Wars moment, because I'll be too busy thinking about how the entire scene in which that took place was basically lifted from the opening scene of ANH.


----------



## RAGING BONER (Dec 30, 2015)

the only "iconic" thing the prequels had was how terrible they are from start to finish; and the poster child, nay SYMBOLIC figure for that is Jar Jar, though he is frankly the tip of that frozen turd iceberg...

Maul, Pod Racing, Whinykin vs Obiwan dance off?   a very veeeery distant second.


----------



## Legend (Dec 30, 2015)

Rey getting the lightsaber

What happens to Han is supposed to be


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 30, 2015)

Most of the things you guys are mentioning aren't classic moments...

I can't imagine 10 years from now people will be saying "remember when Rey caught that lightsaber? " " remember the giant hologram?" . To me a classic moment is more than just a cool scene.

Innovation is key


----------



## Kuromaku (Dec 30, 2015)

The issue with this film in that in setting up future movies and calling back so much to past _Star Wars_ episodes is that, as with stuff like _Skyfall_, it just didn't develop much of its own identity. There are some things there that hopefully will grow from this point forward, but I honestly can't remember anything from the new movie.

I can remember a lot of things that are iconic, scenes and single elements alike, from the original trilogy. I can remember a lot of things that are memorable for all the wrong reasons from the prequels, along with a few other things that I thought were genuinely neat.

But this one just felt like somewhat put a bunch of _Star Wars_ stuff together competently. Plus the attack on Starkiller Base was nowhere near as cool or as intriguing as the previous two Death Star runs (the first for being the film's dramatic centerpiece and climax, the second for expanding massively upon the concept of space battles from the previous films).


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 30, 2015)

skyfall definitely developed its own identity

maybe you mean spectre idk

skyfall did some unusual shit tho. gay villain, home alone-esque climax, gorgeous roger deakins cinematography, old bond


----------



## Karasu (Dec 30, 2015)

Kuromaku said:


> The issue with this film in that in setting up future movies and calling back so much to past _Star Wars_ episodes is that, as with stuff like _Skyfall_, it just didn't develop much of its own identity. There are some things there that hopefully will grow from this point forward, but I honestly can't remember anything from the new movie.
> 
> I can remember a lot of things that are iconic, scenes and single elements alike, from the original trilogy. I can remember a lot of things that are memorable for all the wrong reasons from the prequels, along with a few other things that I thought were genuinely neat.
> 
> But this one just felt like somewhat put a bunch of _Star Wars_ stuff together competently.* Plus the attack on Starkiller Base was nowhere near as cool or as intriguing as the previous two Death Star runs (the first for being the film's dramatic centerpiece and climax, the second for expanding massively upon the concept of space battles from the previous films)*.




They were stretching it a second time with the whole Death Star thingy (not _that_ bad though). I was seriously, seriously like what. the. fuck. when the same basic scenario played out again. You can't tell me that they couldn't get a Star Wars "feel" with some new material. 

And yet...people are just eating it up.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 30, 2015)

no, yeah, the second Death Star in RotJ was really silly too...but at least it was the 2nd time and not the 3rd, and it served primarily as a backdrop to the drama between Luke, Vader, and the Emperor.


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## Kuromaku (Dec 30, 2015)

_Skyfall_ was kind of hit-and-miss in that regard. It has some things to differentiate itself from the usual formula while making a lot of callbacks to older Bond films and even borrowed quite a bit from _The Dark Knight_. Didn't stop me from enjoying it though. Haven't seen _Spectre_ yet although I've heard a lot of disappointed reactions.

The second Death Star run, while a retread in plotting, at least had the advantage of taking what we'd seen in ANH and expanding the scope of the space battles. In ANH, you can see them hitting their limits in depicting a space battle, hence the smallish team and relatively few fighters engaging in any sort of dogfighting. You even have them hiding numbers and technological limits by focusing on very small groups at any one time. In ROTJ, they really showed off just what they could do at that point with the developments in special effects since the original film. While nowhere near as impressive on a dramatic level due to the splitting of the plot into three, it was still a noticeable improvement in showing us actual "star wars."


----------



## Stunna (Dec 30, 2015)

it's funny that you mention similarities between Skyfall and The Dark Knight, because TFA would have actually benefited from trying to rip off movies _outside_ of the SW series rather than _within_ it


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## Lucaniel (Dec 30, 2015)

Kuromaku said:


> *Skyfall* was kind of hit-and-miss in that regard. It has some things to differentiate itself from the usual formula while making a lot of callbacks to older Bond films and even borrowed quite a bit from _The Dark Knight_. Didn't stop me from enjoying it though. Haven't seen _Spectre_ yet although I've heard a lot of disappointed reactions.



spectre brings back blofeld, bond supervillain lair, big-ass henchmen, all that nostalgic shit


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Dec 31, 2015)

you guys think kotor should have been episode I? or is it fine the way it is as a game x3


----------



## Gilgamesh (Dec 31, 2015)

I'd rather Disney not ruin KOTOR.

I want a re-release of them them both on console though, especially 2 with the cut content restored.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 31, 2015)

Disney didn't own Star Wars when Episode I was in production.


----------



## Mikaveli (Dec 31, 2015)

"Traitor!" is TFA's iconic scene


----------



## Mikaveli (Dec 31, 2015)

Stunna, why are you so hooked on podracing? lol. It was kinda cool, definitely not an iconic moment or anything though. Only thing iconic about TPM is Obi-Wan,Qui-Gon vs Maul with Duel of the Fates roaring in the background.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 31, 2015)

I'm not hooked on pod racing, I just think it's more memorable than anything in TFA, and this subject keeps coming up


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 31, 2015)

the thing I remember most about pod racing is the pod racing level in the lego star wars game


----------



## Mikaveli (Dec 31, 2015)

I think that speaks more to how indistinct TFA is as an installment than the 'classic' nature of podracing


----------



## Gilgamesh (Dec 31, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> he's bawling because tfa is not only wildly successful but generally well-liked, unlike the prequels, while being a total rejection of them, in which he had zero creative input
> 
> he's being creatively cuckolded
> 
> i enjoy his suffering



still richer and more talented  and ultimately respected than you will ever be


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 31, 2015)

don't you have better things to do than defend yourself on an obscure anime site George?

oh wait

I guess not


----------



## Zeta42 (Dec 31, 2015)

bloodplzkthxlol said:


> you guys think kotor should have been episode I? or is it fine the way it is as a game x3





Gilgamesh said:


> I'd rather Disney not ruin KOTOR.
> 
> I want a re-release of them them both on console though, especially 2 with the cut content restored.


Let's be real, KotOR's dialogues and especially Malak's lines are so cheesy that you can't really ruin them. It would work really well in cartoon format.

Also, can you imagine a live action movie filled with "mucha shaka paka"?


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 31, 2015)




----------



## BigPoppaPump (Dec 31, 2015)

So now the movie has been out for a few weeks, whats the consensus on the rating? I think 7/10 is fair.


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 31, 2015)

9/10 minimum rating

VII>VI>V>III>IV>II>I


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 31, 2015)

> III>IV


ridiculous 




> VI>V


equally ridiculous


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 31, 2015)

btw Happy New year guys and may the Force be with you


----------



## Harbour (Dec 31, 2015)

5>4>3>6~7>1>2

the real place of the forehashce awakeremakens.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 31, 2015)

TFA better than TESB and ANH? RotJ better than TESB and ANH? RotS better than ANH?

but how tho


----------



## Kuromaku (Dec 31, 2015)

For me, it's more:

ESB>ANH>ROTJ>TFA>ROTS>TPM>AOTC

I'm curious to see what the overall reception will be once the hype has died down and people have had time to process the movie months or years from now. For me, it feels almost like people were so desperate for a decent SW movie after the prequels that even an adequate movie that successfully appealed to the lowest common denominator could be so well loved by critics and fans alike at the time of its initial release.

Hopefully, history repeats itself where the next film goes to places that results in a slightly lower box office take but critics and fans alike grow to really love it.


----------



## Stunna (Dec 31, 2015)

Kuromaku said:


> I'm curious to see what the overall reception will be once the hype has died down and people have had time to process the movie months or years from now.


The same thing that happened to TPM, albeit not as drastic.

Years down the line, once the hype has died down and people are willing to be more objective with their analysis of the movie, the same people who are today calling TFA "amazing" and rabidly defending how it rips off ANH will be condemning a lot of the movie's choices as casually as they do TPM's. Well, not as casually, because TFA is a much, much better movie, but you get my point.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 31, 2015)

for me its:

ESB > ANH >= RotJ > TFA = RotS > AotC > TPM


----------



## Stunna (Dec 31, 2015)

I've only seen it once (I'll rewatch it this weekend), but I'm pretty confident that my ranking isn't going to change any time soon:

The Empire Strikes Back > A New Hope >> Return of the Jedi >= The Force Awakens >> The Phantom Menace > Revenge of the Sith >>> Attack of the Clones


----------



## Vault (Dec 31, 2015)

5,4,6,7,1,3,2

That's the true ranking


----------



## Stunna (Dec 31, 2015)

Vault knows.


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 31, 2015)

>the same thing happened to TPM

I feel like this is a delusional statement

I can't find a source going back all the way to 99 or 02 but as early as 04 critical opinion of the prequels (TPM/AotC) was hovering around 60% for all critics and 40% for "top critics"


----------



## Stunna (Dec 31, 2015)

[YOUTUBE]XSaaa_OBkzw[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Vivo Diez (Dec 31, 2015)

I thought it's obvious that:

5>4>3~6~7>1>2


----------



## Stunna (Dec 31, 2015)

You thought wrong, friend.


----------



## Vivo Diez (Dec 31, 2015)

[YOUTUBE]Q9DmJ_5BEHI[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Kuromaku (Dec 31, 2015)

I always thought that the positive reception to TPM was only in the afterglow of its initial release, although even then there were rumblings of disappointment. Then AoTC came out, and it became cool to hate on the prequels. I remember that during the lead up to ROTS, I read a magazine article where the writer hoped that the movie wouldn't suck. Hell, I even recall browsing various websites listing various reasons the prequels sucked. The Plinkett reviews came late into the game, but earned their rep by basically taking on an easy target, and expanding upon preexisting criticisms of the movies while adding their own criticisms from a filmmaker's perspective.


----------



## Vivo Diez (Dec 31, 2015)

At least the general consensus is that the new one is worse than originals, but better than prequels.

If they pushed for a more creative and logical plot they could have easily matched A New Hope imo. The characters are nearly there, with being a bit more consistent with Finn and making Rey just a liiiiitle bit more vulnerable, they could have had a home run.


----------



## Vault (Dec 31, 2015)

Why is Revenge of the Sith so high on people's list? Potential wise yes but it was never going to work since it was bogged down by the previous 2 films it woulnt ever have worked without the 2 working together. Also too much talking but not show, this was one of the moments when showing would have done something to elevate the film. I never bought anakin and obi wan being nothing more but student and master. Jedi council were made inept making terrible decisions, anakin being turned by such simple manipulation. You would have thought when Sidious lied by saying Anakin killed Padme unintentionally he is smart enough to realise that what he was seeing with Padme death was a direct result of him falling to the dark side instead he shouted NOOOOOO and that was it


----------



## Vivo Diez (Dec 31, 2015)

[YOUTUBE]llLKar19XhA[/YOUTUBE]

At least it was a fun ride.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 31, 2015)

in terms of plot and dialogue and Anakin sucking etc. I think RotS is not (significantly) different then 1 or 2 (well 1 had a kid Anakin, thats different)


but the fights man ..

- Windu vs Sidious
- Yoda vs Sidious  
- Obi vs Anakin




I also liked Grievous


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 31, 2015)

Stunna said:


> [YOUTUBE]XSaaa_OBkzw[/YOUTUBE]



surely this is a completely unbiased source 



reactions were already very mixed on like the first day of release

and as early as the release of AotC pretty much everyone was referring to TPM as a failure, though simultaneously all the critics were saying that AotC was far better, which is obviously wrong too.

the picture painted for me is that the prequels were slightly less hated but nevertheless still unwelcome even in their time


----------



## Stunna (Dec 31, 2015)

regardless of whether you want to label the initial reception of TPM as "everyone loved it" or "most people didn't completely hate it", the point is that, down the line, there was a shift where the majority now feels more negative about it than when it first came out

I predict the same will happen to TFA


----------



## Stunna (Dec 31, 2015)

I mean, honestly, I'm still baffled that TFA got a 94% on RT. Yeah, RT scores don't mean anything; I'm just surprised is all (well, not really, but...a little bit of both.)


----------



## Kuromaku (Dec 31, 2015)

_Sith_ has a lot of issues, but ultimately, it's more entertaining than _Clones_ and removes the issues of Jar Jar (barely in it) and child actors (they die in droves). Plus, the music was on point, and anything involving Sheev is gold because Ian was clearly having a lot of fun with the role (think Raul Julia in _Street Fighter_, except not quite as magnificent).

Plus, while the context surrounding certain moments was less than stellar, the music and way Order 66 was staged both belonged in a much better movie. There's little dialogue during that sequence (another such sequence was the one where Anakin and Padme are looking across the city, as if at each other), and the whole thing is done beautifully.

Ultimately, ROTS is a mediocre film with moments of genuine brilliance (which arguably hurts the movie even more because you can see hints of the potential that's otherwise there).

Note: I'm saying this as someone who, after coming home from seeing TFA, wound up watching ROTS with my sister and mom just to see if it was as bad as I recalled.


----------



## Pocalypse (Dec 31, 2015)

Stunna said:


> I mean, honestly, I'm still baffled that TFA got a 94% on RT. Yeah, RT scores don't mean anything; I'm just surprised is all (well, not really, but...a little bit of both.)



Because they actually made a film miles better than the crappy prequels, even if it was a copy of ANH and nostalgia filled, it still didn't go down the shitter? It's not hard to admit it instead of trying to constantly pick holes in it that it didn't have anything original like pod racing, as if that would make a difference. Compared to TPM's initial release, this film's garnered a much better response.


----------



## Vivo Diez (Dec 31, 2015)

Stunna said:


> I mean, honestly, I'm still baffled that TFA got a 94% on RT. Yeah, RT scores don't mean anything; I'm just surprised is all (well, not really, but...a little bit of both.)





We'll always look at the movies through nostalgia coloured glasses.

Also, rotten tomatoes gives a 100% if a review is positive, or has a passing grade, and gives 0% when a review is negative, or doesn't have a passing grade, and then averages it out. It's not the actual ratings getting averaged out, for that you have to go to metacritic or looked at the much smaller "average rating" part.


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 31, 2015)

Stunna said:


> regardless of whether you want to label the initial reception of TPM as "everyone loved it" or "most people didn't completely hate it", the point is that, down the line, there was a shift where the majority now feels more negative about it than when it first came out
> 
> I predict the same will happen to TFA



I disagree with ur prediction

lets agree to meet back here when episode eight comes out so I can prove you wrong


----------



## Stunna (Dec 31, 2015)

Who cares that it's miles better than the prequels? You do know that there are other movies to compare TFA to other than other SW movies, right? TFA may have been a relatively good, or even great, SW movie, but in general? It's legit funny to me that people are putting it on their "best of 2015" lists.


----------



## Kuromaku (Dec 31, 2015)

Pocalypse said:


> Because they actually made a film miles better than the crappy prequels, even if it was a copy of ANH and nostalgia filled, it still didn't go down the shitter? It's not hard to admit it instead of trying to constantly pick holes in it that it didn't have anything original like pod racing, as if that would make a difference. Compared to TPM's initial release, this film's garnered a much better response.



Yeah, but 94% at first glance makes it look like a masterpiece of Hollywood film making, which the movie is not, even if it is ultimately pretty decent (note that this is the same score on the Tomato Meter as _Empire_). Better to verify the film's consensus by looking at the actual content of reviews, as even a decent film can get mostly positive reviews even if a good number of them aren't shining.


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 31, 2015)

Vivo Diez said:


> We'll always look at the movies through nostalgia coloured glasses.
> 
> Also, rotten tomatoes gives a 100% if a review is positive, or has a passing grade, and gives 0% when a review is negative, or doesn't have a passing grade, and then averages it out. It's not the actual ratings getting averaged out, for that you have to go to metacritic.



w-what?

no, rotten tomatoes is a measure of whether the majority like the movie

it doesn't assign ratings to reviews it's literally just saying 70% of reviewers liked the movie and 30% didn't


----------



## Stunna (Dec 31, 2015)

Vivo Diez said:


> Also, rotten tomatoes gives a 100% if a review is positive, or has a passing grade, and gives 0% when a review is negative, or doesn't have a passing grade, and then averages it out. It's not the actual ratings getting averaged out, for that you have to go to metacritic or looked at the much smaller "average rating" part.


I'm aware how RT works; I stand by my post.



Nightstorm said:


> I disagree with ur prediction
> 
> lets agree to meet back here when episode eight comes out so I can prove you wrong


----------



## Pocalypse (Dec 31, 2015)

Stunna said:


> Who cares that it's miles better than the prequels? You do know that there are other movies to compare TFA to other than other SW movies, right? TFA may have been a relatively good, or even great, SW movie, but in general? It's legit funny to me that people are putting it on their "best of 2015" lists.



Err...mostly everyone? Obviously this film was going to be compared to the prequels and the sequels, why would you want to compare it to anything else? 

Not our fault we don't prefer pod racing


----------



## Stunna (Dec 31, 2015)

why do you keep bringing up pod racing when I've made it clear that I'm not trying to compare it to movies _within its series_ atm



and bloody hell; yes, obviously, comparisons to the other movies in its series can, and HAVE, been made, but the point is that just because TFA is good by SW standards doesn't mean it's a good movie in general


----------



## Stunna (Dec 31, 2015)

like, seriously, did you just ask me why you would compare it to anything that isn't SW?


----------



## Pocalypse (Dec 31, 2015)

Because you keep harping on about the lack of originality the film has and ALWAYS bring in pod racing as an example, like using that shitty event to downplay the film everytime someone says it's a good film or better than the prequels


----------



## Stunna (Dec 31, 2015)

okay, but homie



is that relevant _now_


----------



## Turrin (Dec 31, 2015)

I have yet to see a legitimate complaint about the TFA, despite the many people attempting to criticize it. The Rey being a Mary Sue BS, is a result of people only focusing on her successes, while ignoring her blatant failures throughout the film, and than throwing up there hands and saying meh she's too good. The people complaining about it being similar to a New Hope, don't understand what paying homage to something is and are ignoring how many plot points and characters differ radically from the original.

Edit: I'd go so far as to say the TFA is one of the best SCFI/Fantasy Movies of all time, let alone better than the Prequels, and is arguebly better than ANH and RoJ if considering each Film within a vacuum (I.E. away from the over arching story line, which we won't know till Ep8 and Ep9 come out); grant it does have a serious advantage over the originals in terms of advancement of technology, so those could be much better if redone in the modern era as well, but it is what it is. And this isn't coming from someone who is not some super Star Wars Fanboy or has seen the movie 11 times; I saw the movie twice and based my evaluation on many different criteria; Acting, Script, Score, World Building, and Action; which the film accomplishes 9/10 to 10/10 for me in nearly every regard.


----------



## Zeta42 (Dec 31, 2015)




----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 31, 2015)

> *BOX OFFICE: STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS Sinks TITANIC In The UK*
> 
> Star Wars: The Force Awakens has taken in ?83.5M ($123.8M) in the UK after 13 days of release, making it the 4th highest-grossing movie in the territory's history. Of course that means it's knocked the previous 4th-place holder off its spot, and that movie just so happens to be James Cameron's mighty Titanic.
> 
> ...


----------



## zoro (Dec 31, 2015)

I don't get it 

I really don't

Maybe I've become too jaded with blockbusters or something but I don't see the appeal here. It's not a bad movie, sure, but it's not a masterpiece either. Very average and lacks some soul

There's a lot of potential for episodes 8 and 9 though, but this one was just...not that memorable to me


----------



## Kuromaku (Dec 31, 2015)

Turrin said:


> I have yet to see a legitimate complaint about the TFA, despite the many people attempting to criticize it. The Rey being a Mary Sue BS, is a result of people only focusing on her successes, while ignoring her blatant failures throughout the film, and than throwing up there hands and saying meh she's too good. The people complaining about it being similar to a New Hope, don't understand what paying homage to something is and are ignoring how many plot points and characters differ radically from the original.
> 
> Edit: I'd go so far as to say the TFA is one of the best SCFI/Fantasy Movies of all time, let alone better than the Prequels, and is arguebly better than ANH and RoJ if considering each Film within a vacuum (I.E. away from the over arching story line, which we won't know till Ep8 and Ep9 come out); grant it does have a serious advantage over the originals in terms of advancement of technology, so those could be much better if redone in the modern era as well, but it is what it is. And this isn't coming from someone who is not some super Star Wars Fanboy or has seen the movie 11 times; I saw the movie twice and based my evaluation on many different criteria; Acting, Script, Score, World Building, and Action; which the film accomplishes 9/10 to 10/10 for me in nearly every regard.



I won't lie. For a moment, I thought you were completely serious, but then I saw the second part of your post and realized you had your tongue firmly in cheek.


----------



## Parallax (Dec 31, 2015)

Nightstorm said:


> surely this is a completely unbiased source
> 
> 
> 
> ...



As someone who lived through it and not just speculated

Eh not really people dug it for about a year and it was a pretty popular film the first year of release


----------



## Parallax (Dec 31, 2015)

Man Turrin is what happens when plebs write more than two sentences

Shit hurts like a gut punch


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 31, 2015)

regarding something lucaniel said a few pages back, Gay villain is not an unusual trope, but rather a nostalgic one. 

Used to be the only way you could get a homosexual on film, is if he was the villain.

The unusual bit was when Bond called his bluff on it


----------



## Turrin (Dec 31, 2015)

@Stunna, Kuromaku, Parallax

Listen Guys/Gals I'm willing to discuss the issues you think TFA has, which makes my lofty praise of it out of line, but if your just going to spout off one liners, than to me your just hating on the film for the sake of hating on it, with no real a substance to support your claims.



Parallax said:


> As someone who lived through it and not just speculated
> 
> Eh not really people dug it for about a year and it was a pretty popular film the first year of release


As someone who also lived through it,  people enjoyed the prequels, but no one was calling them one of the best films of the Year or Great Movie. The Prequels were enjoyable popcorn, mindless films, like the Transform Movies are, versus the originals which managed to capture that enjoyable action film quality while also bringing to the table a great plot as welll; TFA is a return to that, but greatly outstrips the originals in enjoyable action categories, because of obvious advancements in technology.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 31, 2015)

Happy New Year, Turrin


----------



## Pilaf (Dec 31, 2015)




----------



## Arishem (Dec 31, 2015)

crazy theory time: it was young rey who massacred luke's students during a force prodigy tantrum. luke was forced to mindwipe her, but he couldn't bring himself to kill his monstrous daughter. kylo took matters into his own hands, discovered snoke/knights of ren, and murdered his father in preparation to kill his cousin. rian johnson is the right man to direct the sequel as his last movie was about an abominable child that grew into an even more dangerous adult.


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 31, 2015)

> *BOX OFFICE: STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS Sinks TITANIC In The UK*
> 
> Star Wars: The Force Awakens has taken in ?83.5M ($123.8M) in the UK after 13 days of release, making it the 4th highest-grossing movie in the territory's history. Of course that means it's knocked the previous 4th-place holder off its spot, and that movie just so happens to be James Cameron's mighty Titanic.
> 
> ...






> *UPDATE:* Make that 8th position! The Force Awakens notched up another $36.7M on Wednesday, driving it past Disney’s own Frozen to become the No. 8 movie of all time at the worldwide box office.





> *UPDATE:* George Lucas has just apologized for his "white slavers" remarks. He released a statement admitting his flaws, and congratulated J.J. Abrams and Kathleen Kennedy for the film's success.  Check out his full thoughts below.
> 
> _"I have been working with Disney for 40 years and chose them as the custodians of Star Wars because of my great respect for the company and Bob Iger’s leadership. Disney is doing an incredible job of taking care of and expanding the franchise. I rarely go out with statements to clarify my feelings but I feel it is important to make it clear that I am thrilled that Disney has the franchise and is moving it in such exciting directions in film, television and the parks. Most of all I’m blown away with the record breaking blockbuster success of the new movie and am very proud of JJ and Kathy."_


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 31, 2015)

Lucas


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 31, 2015)

Stunna said:


> I mean, honestly, I'm still baffled that TFA got a 94% on RT. Yeah, RT scores don't mean anything; I'm just surprised is all (well, not really, but...a little bit of both.)



the dark knight rises has 87% on rt and you go "what the fuck?!" every 5-10 minutes when you watch it at all the shit that doesn't make sense


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 31, 2015)

Stunna said:


> TFA better than TESB and ANH? RotJ better than TESB and ANH? RotS better than ANH?
> 
> but how tho



man when i saw flutter taking dartg's obvious b8post seriously i was like "well i guess he's just that dumb"

then i see this


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 31, 2015)

giving the midget too much credit Luc 



the only b8 in her post was putting TFA first

the rest of it is probably her honest (garbage) opinion on the six SW movies rankings


----------



## Stunna (Dec 31, 2015)

I disagree with dartg often; how was I supposed to know it was just bait


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 31, 2015)

she put tfa first and rots above anh, of course it's bait, she's not retarded


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 31, 2015)

also fang asked me to post this


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## Stunna (Dec 31, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> she put tfa first and rots above anh, of course it's bait, she's not retarded


I also don't know if she's retarded or not

I guess I'll take your word for it tho


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 31, 2015)

Disnuminatti


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Dec 31, 2015)

i finally saw this and can now discuss it
it was good
far from perfect but good
stay  mad nerds


----------



## Rukia (Dec 31, 2015)

Why is everyone so mad that this turned out to be a decent movie?


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 31, 2015)

i am glad SW is going uphill


----------



## TetraVaal (Dec 31, 2015)

Detective said:


> Tetra!
> 
> 
> 
> Is it time for you to review Fatherhood for us?



It's better than Disney Star Wars.


----------



## Kuromaku (Dec 31, 2015)

Turrin said:


> @Stunna, Kuromaku, Parallax
> 
> Listen Guys/Gals I'm willing to discuss the issues you think TFA has, which makes my lofty praise of it out of line, but if your just going to spout off one liners, than to me your just hating on the film for the sake of hating on it, with no real a substance to support your claims.



All right, all right. I'm not going to get into my issues with the film directly just yet, but more with my issues with some of the hype.

Honestly, I didn't hate TFA. In fact, I agree that it's a step in the right direction, even if it ultimately does come off as a greatest hits collection of the original trilogy. For me, it's decent, not great, but definitely not terrible. I just feel that people who are going as far as to call it great are kind of overreacting as a result of their expectations being so low that they're right "next to fucking dinosaur bones."

I also have issue with people watering down the term "great." It's like comparing Hall of Famers to solid players. Babe Ruth was great while Paul O'Neill (who was a favorite of mine) was good. For me, a great science fantasy film is _The Empire Strikes Back_, while _Star Wars_ (ANH) is great by virtue of being a fun movie that revolutionized movie making in various ways (in contrast to say, _Avatar_, which was hyped as revolutionary and game changing, then turned out to be a forgettable if gorgeous film that inspired a short-lived 3D craze). A great science fiction film would be something like _Blade Runner_, _2001_, or the like. A great fantasy film series might be the _Lord of the Rings_ trilogy. For me, TFA was adequate, maybe even good, but for me, "great" has a much higher connotation.

And let's not even get into critics putting it on their best of 2015 lists. I can understand _Fury Road_, but TFA? How weak a year was it that a professional critic would put it over some of the pretty high quality releases that came out last year? I'm not just talking about Hollywood releases, but also the kind of films that you would expect a half-way decent critic to at least be aware of (i.e. the kind that might fly under the radar of mainstream audiences).

Speaking of which, happy new year to you and all the other posters in this thread.


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## Lucaniel (Dec 31, 2015)

> they're right "next to fucking dinosaur bones."



ayo that OG plinkett quote doe


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Dec 31, 2015)

btw luc
i hissed when snoke was introduced
my friend shot me a sideways glance


----------



## Rukia (Dec 31, 2015)

Yeah, what did you guys think of Plagueis?  Hopefully they can make him look a little better in the sequels.


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 31, 2015)

WAD said:


> btw luc
> i hissed when snoke was introduced
> my friend shot me a sideways glance



did you like that he was fucking enormous


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Dec 31, 2015)

i was like what why but quickly reconciled it's possible that since he only appeared as a hologram that he is projecting himself that way?

i wouldn't mind if he was tho

but it would be hilarious if he ended up like trin-sized


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Dec 31, 2015)

also snoke can't be plagueis because rule of 2


CHECKMATE ATHEISTS

no but seriously that would seriously undermine the established lore of the universe


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 31, 2015)

they ignored everything else about the prequels

you never know


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Jan 1, 2016)

i dont see this beating avatar. replacing frozen (good riddance) and titanic im ok with


----------



## Turrin (Jan 1, 2016)

Kuromaku said:


> All right, all right. I'm not going to get into my issues with the film directly just yet, but more with my issues with some of the hype.
> 
> Honestly, I didn't hate TFA. In fact, I agree that it's a step in the right direction, even if it ultimately does come off as a greatest hits collection of the original trilogy. For me, it's decent, not great, but definitely not terrible. I just feel that people who are going as far as to call it great are kind of overreacting as a result of their expectations being so low that they're right "next to fucking dinosaur bones."


Many of my friends (as well as myself) went into the film with our expectations of it very high due to the huge amount of praise it was receiving in the media and from people who had already seen the film. In-fact one of my friends reaction to the film was, that it was very good, but didn't meet his expectations considering the hype. Now i'm sure some people did go in with low expectation too, but too me this is way too much of a generalization and certainly doesn't apply to me bruv.



> I also have issue with people watering down the term "great." It's like comparing Hall of Famers to solid players. Babe Ruth was great while Paul O'Neill (who was a favorite of mine) was good. For me, a great science fantasy film is The Empire Strikes Back, while Star Wars (ANH) is great by virtue of being a fun movie that revolutionized movie making in various ways (in contrast to say, Avatar, which was hyped as revolutionary and game changing, then turned out to be a forgettable if gorgeous film that inspired a short-lived 3D craze). A great science fiction film would be something like Blade Runner, 2001, or the like. A great fantasy film series might be the Lord of the Rings trilogy. For me, TFA was adequate, maybe even good, but for me, "great" has a much higher connotatio


Empire Strikes Back is not even a Top 20 Scifi Movie, it's a Movie that one could make a credible argument for being thee Number 1 Scifi Movie of all time (not saying it de-facto is, or I would even make that argument myself, just that it can be made). To me saying a movie is not great, because it doesn't reach ESB "level" is holding way too high of a standard. TFA imo being a top 20 Scifi Movie of all time, possible a Top 10 is more than enough for me to feel comfortable calling it great, w/o it coming close to ESB.

And please don't compare this to Dances with Nightcrawlers 



> And let's not even get into critics putting it on their best of 2015 lists. I can understand Fury Road, but TFA? How weak a year was it that a professional critic would put it over some of the pretty high quality releases that came out last year? I'm not just talking about Hollywood releases, but also the kind of films that you would expect a half-way decent critic to at least be aware of (i.e. the kind that might fly under the radar of mainstream audiences).


I haven't watched every movie of this Year that has critical acclaim or otherwise, so I can't quite speak to that. But what I can speak to is that fact that i'm a movie buff and I've seen ALOT of Movies, and the TFA beats most of the movie i've seen out by a mile. The reason being that while we may not get thee best acting performances in existence from TFA characters, thee best actions scenes, thee best plot, etc... What TFA awakens brings to the table is high marks in all of these categories while other films usually excel in 1-2 categories while falling short in others.


For example we can debate whether a ANH or the TFA is better in categories like Plot, Characters, and World-Building, but TFA demolishes ANH in Action, Sound Track, etc.. And while i'll be the first to agree ANH is at a several decade technology based disadvantage to TFA, i'm also not going to ignore that the superior production quality of the TFA does indeed enhance the overall quality of a film within the genre and style of TFA and ANH. 

So to me TFA is one of the best films within it's genre right now, because it's top tier in production quality, while also achieving high marks in the more story oriented areas. But it's not Number 1 because there are still movies that despite falling behind in production quality still beat out TFA decisively in other areas, like ESB. And I'll also admit that 20-30 Years from now, it will probably drop down the Top 10-20 list significantly, because there will be new movies with equally high marks in story, but superior production quality as advancements continue to be made; while something like ESB is still probably going to continue to be in the conversation for at least top 5.


----------



## Stunna (Jan 1, 2016)

they didn't acknowledge prequel stuff, but I don't recall them retconning anything either

I guess we'll see


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Jan 1, 2016)

I mean it's hard to reference the prequels whatsoever when it was basically a biopic trilogy to a character that's not gonna appear in the sequels and really has no other tangible plotlines?


----------



## Kuromaku (Jan 1, 2016)

Turrin said:


> Many of my friends (as well as myself) went into the film with our expectations of it very high due to the huge amount of praise it was receiving in the media and from people who had already seen the film. In-fact one of my friends reaction to the film was, that it was very good, but didn't meet his expectations considering the hype. Now i'm sure some people did go in with low expectation too, but too me this is way too much of a generalization and certainly doesn't apply to me bruv.



Funny story. I went in expecting something decent, but not great, as per the usual when I've watched previous Abrams films. Abrams is a decent pastiche style director (see _Super 8_) who isn't the greatest when it comes to actual emotional depth (again, compare the films _Super 8_ takes inspiration from and compare just what kind of heart they have compared to Abrams' product). He's also a decent enough director for reboots (see _Star Trek_, which I thought was actually better than TFA, even if it was a flawed film in its own right). TFA met those expectations.



> Empire Strikes Back is not even a Top 20 Scifi Movie, it's a Movie that one could make a credible argument for being thee Number 1 Scifi Movie of all time (not saying it de-facto is, or I would even make that argument myself, just that it can be made). To me saying a movie is not great, because it doesn't reach ESB "level" is holding way too high of a standard. TFA imo being a top 20 Scifi Movie of all time, possible a Top 10 is more than enough for me to feel comfortable calling it great, w/o it coming close to ESB.
> 
> And please don't compare this to Dances with Nightcrawlers.



I don't consider SW sci-fi by virtue of it being an old time tale of fantasy that just so happens to be set in a sci-fi setting. We've got a mysterious, all powerful Force, a Hero's Journey out of Campbell, and call-backs to all sorts of media that weren't sci-fi. ESB happens to be one of the greats of that particular genre in part because of its own innate quality, and in part because it's not that crowded a genre.

Anyway, that's the point of the term "great." It's a high mark. You don't just call anything "great," because you water down the term. It's like the term "epic," which was ruined by the Internet. "Epic" is _The Iliad_. It is not what the Internet would have you believe.

The same is true of "great." ESB-level gives a good idea of just what the term means. You have to earn it. Anything less can range from poor to very good. "Great" is to be in a class of its own.



> I haven't watched every movie of this Year that has critical acclaim or otherwise, so I can't quite speak to that. But what I can speak to is that fact that i'm a movie buff and I've seen ALOT of Movies, and the TFA beats most of the movie i've seen out by a mile. The reason being that while we may not get thee best acting performances in existence from TFA characters, thee best actions scenes, thee best plot, etc... What TFA awakens brings to the table is high marks in all of these categories while other films usually excel in 1-2 categories while falling short in others.



And that's your opinion. I can respect that you have it, even if I personally disagree given that I'm also enough of a movie buff to feel that TFA falls short of shortlists of just what would be the best movies of the year 2015.



> For example we can debate whether a ANH or the TFA is better in categories like Plot, Characters, and World-Building, but TFA demolishes ANH in Action, Sound Track, etc.. And while i'll be the first to agree ANH is at a several decade technology based disadvantage to TFA, i'm also not going to ignore that the superior production quality of the TFA does indeed enhance the overall quality of a film within the genre and style of TFA and ANH.



I don't count categories where technological advances impact the final product, just as I don't directly compare baseball players from the deadball era or pre-integration period to those of today. There are too many factors that make a direct comparison flawed to say the least.

You can't judge a film by its special effects across decades because of the vast difference in technology. You have to judge it then by what is directly comparable, and if you're a history buff like I am, have to realize that you can't directly judge the past by modern standards.

Furthermore, ANH easily wins in terms of world building and plotting by virtue of having actually created the world and for using a plot that TFA deliberately references. TFA isn't about world building or plotting. It's about taking what was in the original trilogy and giving it a modern sheen to bring in a new generation of viewers while providing fanservice to older ones.

As for soundtrack, ANH wins big time (at least in terms of music). TFA only has a score because it's building off what ANH first brought to the table in the first place. It's why people refer to the original _Star Wars_ as having the best OST despite the other movies having their own iconic pieces of music. The original is where John Williams first introduced the main theme, the theme for the Force, the leitmotifs for Luke and Leia, and so on. All the other movies, while stellar in their own rights (except for TFA, where nothing really stood out all that much), were in the end, building off the iconic score of the original.



> So to me TFA is one of the best films within it's genre right now, because it's top tier in production quality, while also achieving high marks in the more story oriented areas. But it's not Number 1 because there are still movies that despite falling behind in production quality still beat out TFA decisively in other areas, like ESB. And I'll also admit that 20-30 Years from now, it will probably drop down the Top 10-20 list significantly, because there will be new movies with equally high marks in story, but superior production quality as advancements continue to be made; while something like ESB is still probably going to continue to be in the conversation for at least top 5.



Again, this is your opinion. I'll respect that you have it even if I disagree, and feel personally that it was a decent if mostly forgettable (but safe) movie that the rest of the movies look to build on.


----------



## tari101190 (Jan 1, 2016)

They did reference the prequels.

Ewen McGregor confirmed he did voice work for the Rey force vision.

Kylo mentioned the clone army.

Official Star Wars page says Phasma's armour was crafted from the hull of a Naboo starship once owned by Emperor Palpatine.


----------



## Mickey Mouse (Jan 1, 2016)

I loved this film. I say top 3 of star wars for me.


----------



## Lucaniel (Jan 1, 2016)

i like how in super 8, abrams tried to have an ET moment between a little kid and the bionic version of general grievous


----------



## Bender (Jan 1, 2016)

Lucas what the fuck is the matter with you?


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 1, 2016)

WAD said:


> I mean it's hard to reference the prequels whatsoever when it was basically a biopic trilogy to a character that's not gonna appear in the sequels and really has no other tangible plotlines?



They went Out of their way to avoid the prequels and in some ways I think the movie actually suffers from it.

For instance they invent a whole new city planet to serve as the capital in order to avoid coruscant and the prequel associations


----------



## Lucaniel (Jan 1, 2016)

i don't see that as a problem

it's just a feature. does it have a positive or negative effect? i don't think so. was that planet even named? for all we know it might've been corooskant


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Jan 1, 2016)

considering all of the events that have taken place politically between the prequels and current day and the amount of time that has to have transpired (more than half a century) i dont see how its inconceivable that a different planet is the capital


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 1, 2016)

its some new planet with a name that starts with h 

Imo it's needlessly confusing and blatantly an attempt to distance itself from the prequels 

I feel like conservation of detail or something is a good way to describe why this is flawed


----------



## Stunna (Jan 1, 2016)

I think retconning the prequels would be a mistake, myself

it should be easy enough to go the next couple episodes without needing to acknowledge anything that happened in episodes I-III anyway


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Jan 1, 2016)

yea nah

lack of shoehorning =/= avoiding references


----------



## Lucaniel (Jan 1, 2016)

how is that confusing? all you have to do is think "oh, they're somewhere else" and log that minor detail in your head

like how simple would you have to be to get tripped up by that. 

"they're...they're not on coruscant? but coruscant is where everything is!!! you can change capitals? what? it's not coruscant? it's somewhere else? what is this?"


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Jan 1, 2016)

Abrams said numerous times the OT will be the focal point.

I wouldn't be surprised if the prequels are never referenced .


----------



## Gilgamesh (Jan 1, 2016)

Turin how much do Disney pay you for your shilling of their terrible movie?



> Abrams said numerous times the OT will be the focal point.



Of course they would JJ doesn't have an original or creative bone in his entire body, he's a perfect studio tool who won't take any risks whatsoever.

I would say Rian is a hope for something new and different with callbacks to the PT but that dumb bitch Kennedy still gets final say.


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 1, 2016)

I'm not saying its majorly confusing I'm saying it seems irrelevant and dumb

If they reintroduce coruscant next movie or something then fine maybe they needed to kill another planet but if that doesn't happen I'll stand by "what was the point if that again?"


----------



## Lucaniel (Jan 1, 2016)

why does there need to be a point
it's just a different place 
that's such a minor change that i don't see why anyone would even waste time thinking about it


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 1, 2016)

What do you mean why does there need to be a point? 

Everything needs a point

The question is why, not why not


----------



## Bender (Jan 1, 2016)

Speaking od Avatar I can compare Lucas gawdy writing of prequels to avatar film.


----------



## Lucaniel (Jan 1, 2016)

Nightstorm said:


> What do you mean why does there need to be a point?
> 
> Everything needs a point
> 
> The question is why, not why not


pls

this is like why is rey right handed and not left handed

it has no real bearing on the story if the place is called coruscant or if it's called something else, as long as we're told it's the centre of the republic. that information is important

the name can be anything


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 1, 2016)

it'd be like if rey switched handedness half way through the trilogy


----------



## Lucaniel (Jan 1, 2016)

[YOUTUBE]v93Jh6JNBng[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 1, 2016)




----------



## Pilaf (Jan 1, 2016)

Star Wars is a great movie, for a dumb movie. It's one of my favorite dumb movies. It's not meant to be a masterpiece. It's Flash Gordon with a much bigger budget, with space wizards and samurai thrown in for good measure.


----------



## tari101190 (Jan 1, 2016)

Avatar The Last Airbender (with Legend of Korra I guess) > Star Wars

(In terms of what I like and what I think is better in terms of characters, story, worldbuilding, and visuals. Obviously Star Wars is a historic landmark though.)

Also:

[YOUTUBE]P4mA_rIeBAQ[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Dragon D. Luffy (Jan 1, 2016)

George Lucas did not approve episode VII


----------



## Lucaniel (Jan 1, 2016)

> "They wanted to do a retro movie. I don't like that. Every movie, I worked very hard to make them different," Lucas told Rose. "I made them completely different — different planets, different spaceships to make it new."



he did make the prequels very different to the originals

in how they were shit


----------



## Arya Stark (Jan 1, 2016)

Saw it. Liked it. But it wasn't "groundbreaking" or anything like that. It also adds that nostalgia parts mean nothing to me because I didn't grow up with SW. 

My biggest issue was Kylo Ren's character and how annoying he was. He's obviously going to be redeemed and join the gang at the end.

I liked main trio though. They were easy to love and I can't wait to see their journey being completed so it's a huge plus.

But other than that it was just another flashy action movie. I mean...we're living in the era of superheroes, JJ needs to work on his game other than pulling nostalgia card. I want to see more politics side of things rather than retelling of the same thing with different names.


----------



## Turrin (Jan 1, 2016)

Kuromaku said:


> I don't consider SW sci-fi by virtue of it being an old time tale of fantasy that just so happens to be set in a sci-fi setting. We've got a mysterious, all powerful Force, a Hero's Journey out of Campbell, and call-backs to all sorts of media that weren't sci-fi. ESB happens to be one of the greats of that particular genre in part because of its own innate quality, and in part because it's not that crowded a genre.


Star Wars Crosses Many Different Genre



> The same is true of "great." ESB-level gives a good idea of just what the term means. You have to earn it. Anything less can range from poor to very good. "Great" is to be in a class of its own.


Again I don't think something needs to be in the running for thee best movie in a particular Genre to be considered great.



> I don't count categories where technological advances impact the final product, just as I don't directly compare baseball players from the deadball era or pre-integration period to those of today. There are too many factors that make a direct comparison flawed to say the least.
> 
> You can't judge a film by its special effects across decades because of the vast difference in technology. You have to judge it then by what is directly comparable, and if you're a history buff like I am, have to realize that you can't directly judge the past by modern standards.


To me this is like an 6th Gen I7 Skylake processor isn't better than a Pentium 4 processes, because  you should be comparing the Pentium 4 processor to what came out around the same time as it. To which it's like no, obviously the I7 Processors is way fucking better.

It's the same thing. Here the TFA is obviously better and anything else is an excuse.



> Furthermore, ANH easily wins in terms of world building and plotting by virtue of having actually created the world and for using a plot that TFA deliberately references. TFA isn't about world building or plotting. It's about taking what was in the original trilogy and giving it a modern sheen to bring in a new generation of viewers while providing fanservice to older ones.
> 
> As for soundtrack, ANH wins big time (at least in terms of music). TFA only has a score because it's building off what ANH first brought to the table in the first place. It's why people refer to the original Star Wars as having the best OST despite the other movies having their own iconic pieces of music. The original is where John Williams first introduced the main theme, the theme for the Force, the leitmotifs for Luke and Leia, and so on. All the other movies, while stellar in their own rights (except for TFA, where nothing really stood out all that much), were in the end, building off the iconic score of the origina


I'm not off the opinion that the Original wins just for the sake of being the Original. It's like saying thee first car ever invented is better than a modern formula one car, because it was thee first one. I find it silly and to be talking through nostalgia glasses to be perfectly honest.

I give the win to the one who performed the best period, whether one is drawing from elements from the other or not.


----------



## Stunna (Jan 1, 2016)

> "They wanted to do a retro movie. I don't like that. Every movie, I worked very hard to make them different," Lucas told Rose. "I made them completely different — different planets, different spaceships to make it new."


When you're right, you're right.


----------



## Kuromaku (Jan 1, 2016)

Turrin said:


> Star Wars Crosses Many Different Genre



You're right. It's a swashbuckler, a detective mystery (AoTC), an adventure, a war epic, a love story, a fantasy, and so on. The best stories often are many things because the reality they mirror is the same. But at its core, _Star Wars_ is a myth ("A long time ago") placed in a setting that rather than being fantastical in terms of resembling our past, instead resembles something out of our future ("in a galaxy far, far away..."), where instead of elves and dwarfs, we have aliens of various races, and instead of horses, they have space craft. It's science fantasy in its purest form.



> Again I don't think something needs to be in the running for thee best movie in a particular Genre to be considered great.



I never said as such, merely that SW wasn't sci-fi as you implied. I did however, state that SW is the iconic film of the sci-fantasy genre, and _Empire_ its even better sequel.



> To me this is like an 6th Gen I7 Skylake processor isn't better than a Pentium 4 processes, because  you should be comparing the Pentium 4 processor to what came out around the same time as it. To which it's like no, obviously the I7 Processors is way fucking better.
> 
> It's the same thing. Here the TFA is obviously better and anything else is an excuse.



Well that's just plain ridiculous. Would you compare the original _King Kong_ and _Godzilla_ to their latter remakes in terms of special effects? Of course not, you judge them by the core of what they are: stories. As such, you judge how well the story is told.

Would you compare _Doom_ (the original) to the latest _Call of Duty_? Of course not. It's impossible to properly compare the two except in terms of the context each existed within at the time of their release. It's like judging a historical personage by modern day standards. Ridiculous, self-centered, and something no respectable historian (and by extension, critic) would do.

To argue for technology in these terms is to argue in terms of serendipity. One does not penalize an older film for not having special effects nearly as good. Rather, one examines how well each film utilizes their effects to tell their respective stories. A special effect, no matter how pretty, is no substitute for a story told well. To argue otherwise, for serendipity, and to claim that such is a sign of the story's quality, is to argue the same for _Avatar_ or a Michael Bay film.

In short, it's an excuse, and a poor one at that.

[YOUTUBE]ykmZp5cgbkU[/YOUTUBE]



> I'm not off the opinion that the Original wins just for the sake of being the Original. It's like saying thee first car ever invented is better than a modern formula one car, because it was thee first one. I find it silly and to be talking through nostalgia glasses to be perfectly honest.
> 
> I give the win to the one who performed the best period, whether one is drawing from elements from the other or not.



Of course the first car is inferior in performance to a modern car. The purpose of a car is different from a film. The car's intent is to get you from Point A to Point B, and the modern car does that better. However, a film's purpose is different: in the case of _Star Wars_, it seeks to tell a story.

Again, you're arguing from serendipity. It just so happens that you don't judge a movie's quality that way. It's like saying that _Citizen Kane_ is trash simply because it popularized and pioneered much of modern film making, and has thus become a pile of cliches. You can't compare them directly. Otherwise, one winds up no better than a philistine who won't watch anything made before a certain year because it's "old." And let's face it, no film buff would ever do that.



Arya Stark said:


> But other than that it was just another flashy action movie. I mean...we're living in the era of superheroes, JJ needs to work on his game other than pulling nostalgia card. I want to see more politics side of things rather than retelling of the same thing with different names.



George Lucas tried to get at the political side of things. Turns out that a simple story like that of SW isn't suited to political maneuvering and tariffs.


----------



## Pocalypse (Jan 1, 2016)

> *Disney was not interested in his ideas for the follow-ups,* so he stayed away from the production of Force Awakens, he said.
> 
> "They weren’t that keen to have me involved anyway, but if I get in there, I’m just going to cause trouble, because they’re not going to do what I want them to do. And I don’t have the control to do that anymore, and all I would do is muck everything up," he said. "And so I said, 'OK, I will go my way, and I’ll let them go their way.' "



Thank you Disney 

Why is he so angry though? He got his $4 billion from Disney, that's what he cares about, right?


----------



## Lucaniel (Jan 1, 2016)

Stunna said:


> When you're right, you're right.


----------



## Stunna (Jan 1, 2016)

I don't know what's funny; he's objectively right.

Each movie -- whether it be a good one or bad one -- before TFA had its own distinct aspects. Everything in TFA just reminds you of something you've already seen.


----------



## Lucaniel (Jan 1, 2016)

Stunna said:


> I don't know what's funny





Lucaniel said:


>


----------



## Stunna (Jan 1, 2016)

ah, trolling

carry on


----------



## Lucaniel (Jan 1, 2016)

Stunna said:


> ah, trolling





Lucaniel said:


>


----------



## Guy Gardner (Jan 1, 2016)

Enjoyed the movie a bunch. Saw it twice; once in regular 2D, once in Imax 3D. JJ has no clue how to properly scale things, with the ticking clock at the end feeling really dumb and how characters seemed to teleport long distances to get where they needed to be. The plot has problems and it's occasionally a little too vague for my liking (Like stuff regarding what the relationship/difference between the Republic and the Resistance actually is, which got cut from what I heard), but in the end the characters really save the movie for me. All the new cast are interesting and enjoyable, while the old cast feels properly used and appropriate rather than just being there for nostalgia. I think I might enjoy it more than _Jedi_, but that perhaps _Jedi_ is a more solid movie overall.

Also, don't get all the Mary Sue stuff with Rey, but I guess people have to argue about something.


----------



## Arya Stark (Jan 1, 2016)

> but in the end the characters really save the movie for me.



i couldn't have said it better. the movie would easily fall apart if the new characters weren't loveable.



Kuromaku said:


> George Lucas tried to get at the political side of things. Turns out that a simple story like that of SW isn't suited to political maneuvering and tariffs.




i disagree with this. prequels had many problems but politicial plots weren't one of them. old EU (and new EU to a lesser degree) proves that politics is one of the best parts of SW universe.


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Jan 1, 2016)

some made theory that rey had her mind wiped ala revan


----------



## Lucaniel (Jan 1, 2016)

Arya Stark said:


> i couldn't have said it better. the movie would easily fall apart if the new characters weren't loveable.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



lol

the EU might

the prequels sure didn't


----------



## sworder (Jan 1, 2016)

Arya Stark said:


> prequels had many problems but politicial plots weren't one of them.





Lucaniel said:


>


----------



## Bender (Jan 1, 2016)

@Stunna

Lucas had a problem with his films though:

Bad dialogue.

The dialogue in TFA was excellent.


----------



## The World (Jan 1, 2016)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEIrQUXm_hY[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 1, 2016)

"you're telling a story using tools... you're not using tools to tell a story"



lucas is lost to us


----------



## Parallax (Jan 1, 2016)

He's been lost for decades


----------



## Stunna (Jan 1, 2016)

Bender said:


> @Stunna
> 
> Lucas had a problem with his films though:
> 
> Bad dialogue.


yes

this has nothing to do with whether he was right or not about TFA being unoriginal compared to the previous 6 movies (which he was)

but yes


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 1, 2016)

its pasta


----------



## The World (Jan 1, 2016)

femnaziblacklivesmattacopypasta


----------



## Parallax (Jan 1, 2016)

Its dartg


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 1, 2016)

is the new EU any good at all?


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Jan 1, 2016)

man

i dont fucking get stunna's rhetoric like for real dawg

>PREQUELS WERE HORRIBLE, TERRIBLE CHARACTERIZATION, CONVOLUTED POLITICAL PLOTS, CRINGEY DIALOGUE

>"y-yeah but at least it was ORIGINAL YO"


----------



## Stunna (Jan 1, 2016)

WAD said:


> man
> 
> i dont fucking get stunna's rhetoric like for real dawg
> 
> ...


it's not complicated

at all

they're bad movies, but they still get points that TFA doesn't for at least having neat/relatively unique visual and plot ideas

how is this still hard for people to understand


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Jan 1, 2016)

ok im gonna make a movie about a time traveling humanoid slinky that fires acidic confetti that has to travel across quantum dust bunny parallel universes and combating squirrel-vacuum cleaner hybrids in order to save his Toyota Prius girlfriend with the dialogue all subbed in wingdings and get mad points from you cause its UNIQUE


----------



## Parallax (Jan 1, 2016)

Nightstorm said:


> is the new EU any good at all?



I dont fucking know


----------



## Stunna (Jan 1, 2016)

WAD said:


> ok im gonna make a movie about a time traveling humanoid slinky that fires acidic confetti that has to travel across quantum dust bunny parallel universes and combating squirrel-vacuum cleaner hybrids in order to save his Toyota Prius girlfriend with the dialogue all subbed in wingdings and get mad points from you cause its UNIQUE


because the prequels are really this drastic, right


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Jan 1, 2016)

that's exactly my point.

they're not that unique/original for how simply awful their content was


----------



## Stunna (Jan 1, 2016)

and I like how you overlooked how I said "neat" for the sake of your hyperbole

like, if you don't agree with "neat", that's fine, but let's not act like I said ANY idea is better just because it's different


----------



## Stunna (Jan 1, 2016)

WAD said:


> that's exactly my point.
> 
> they're not that unique/original for how simply awful their content was


the execution of content has zero affect on how good a concept is

the poor quality of the movies has zero affect on whether the world and alien designs and ship designs were good or not


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 1, 2016)

Stunna said:


> it's not complicated
> 
> at all
> 
> ...



I feel like I've had literally this conversation with you before but

you don't GET points for ideas

you get points for implementation


----------



## Stunna (Jan 1, 2016)

Nightstorm said:


> I feel like I've had literally this conversation with you before but
> 
> you don't GET points for ideas
> 
> you get points for implementation


if you don't want to give points for ideas, that's you

I DO give points for ideas

a movie being unoriginal af like TFA means a loss of big points


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 1, 2016)

I give points for ideas executed well

I give points for "unoriginality" executed well

I give no points for ideas executed poorly

I give negative points for "unoriginality" executed poorly

film is a visual medium, it's not a magical idea happy land where you get a sticker because you tried


----------



## Parallax (Jan 1, 2016)

Nighty said:


> I give points for ideas executed well
> 
> I give points for "unoriginality" executed well
> 
> ...



Boy this shows a pretty inadequte undestanding of film history if that's the case


----------



## Parallax (Jan 1, 2016)

And no I'm not gonna further elaborate i ain't got time for pleb education today I'm going to work


----------



## Stunna (Jan 1, 2016)

good ideas won't save movies as bad as the prequels

but good ideas are worth acknowledging

and I'm gonna acknowledge that at least the prequels had ideas that they didn't just ape off of other SW movies

that's all there is to it


----------



## The World (Jan 1, 2016)

Parallax said:


> And no I'm not gonna further elaborate i ain't got time for pleb education today I'm going to work



shut the fuck up para


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 1, 2016)

Parallax said:


> Boy this shows a pretty inadequte undestanding of film history if that's the case





Parallax said:


> And no I'm not gonna further elaborate i ain't got time for pleb education today I'm going to work



educate me pasta 

I feel like the only way you could argue against what I just said was if you read it wrong and thought I said ideas in general are irrelevant compared to execution


----------



## sworder (Jan 1, 2016)

the only thing that matters is how enjoyable the film is, and a film sure as hell doesn't have to be original for that

TFA is great, stay  mad


----------



## Stunna (Jan 1, 2016)

it tends to help


----------



## Rindaman (Jan 1, 2016)

Finn is force sensitive too.

He heard the cries of the victims on the republic planet before it exploded.


----------



## Pilaf (Jan 1, 2016)

Stunna said:


> I don't know what's funny; he's objectively right.
> 
> Each movie -- whether it be a good one or bad one -- before TFA had its own distinct aspects. Everything in TFA just reminds you of something you've already seen.



Joseph Campbell realized something a lot of you don't - there's only ever been one story told in the history of Humanity, and around seventeen basic variations of that story.

That story is "Somebody wants something badly, and tries to get it." 

That's why you're not seeing a lot of creativity in Hollywood. We've told all the basic stories we're ever gonna tell. All the ones people are interested in. You can't fault this movie for its plot similarities to other movies of its genre, especially from the same series. 

What these movies have always been amounts to spectacle. You've got to admire how far the graphics have come, and relate to the individual characters. If you try to find something original or redeeming in the story aside from that, you're gonna rate it lower.


----------



## tari101190 (Jan 1, 2016)

There are 17 steps to Joseph Cambell's heroes journey story breakdown, not 17 variations of the same story.

And I think we're following Kylo's journey as well as Rey's.


----------



## Stunna (Jan 1, 2016)

Pilaf said:


> Joseph Campbell realized something a lot of you don't - there's only ever been one story told in the history of Humanity, and around seventeen basic variations of that story.
> 
> That story is "Somebody wants something badly, and tries to get it."


Yes, yes, we're all aware of this "there are no new stories under the sun" idea.

That doesn't change, or excuse, the fact that TFA's plot is quite literally a copypasta of ANH's with a different skin.


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Jan 1, 2016)

> *BOX OFFICE: STAR WARS: TFA Is Now The Second Biggest Movie Ever In North America*
> 
> With people busy celebrating the New Year last night, Star Wars: The Force Awakens has slowed down a little, but business is expected to pick up again today. Bringing in $15.1 million internationally, the movie has made $679.2 million overseas, but will pass the $700 million mark today. It continues to perform well domestically too, and the J.J. Abrams helmed release has a haul of over $1.3 billion worldwide. With its debut in China now just around the corner, expect that number to significantly rise! As of right now, Star Wars: The Force Awakens will pass Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part 2 later today to become the seventh biggest release of all-time. It's the #5 movie of 2015 internationally and #4 in North America. The movie will pass Jurassic World and Titantic later today to become the #2 movie, and it's still expected to effortlessly top Avatar in the US. How many times have you seen Star Wars: The Force Awakens? Let us know below.






sworder said:


> the only thing that matters is how enjoyable the film is, and a film sure as hell doesn't have to be original for that
> 
> TFA is great, stay  mad



Pretty much.



Rindaman said:


> Finn is force sensitive too.
> 
> He heard the cries of the victims on the republic planet before it exploded.



I thought he had only seen the beams of the Starkiller Base colliding with the New Republic planets like the rest of them. Plus with him working on that station he'd knew it was the work of the Starkiller Base,

Maybe I should try to check a 3rd time to catch it if I missed it. But it could be since Abrams said he thinks


----------



## Mikaveli (Jan 1, 2016)

The prequels are uniquely awful as in how could they make the origin story of Darth Vader so terrible


----------



## Jouten (Jan 1, 2016)

Pilaf said:


> Joseph Campbell realized something a lot of you don't - there's only ever been one story told in the history of Humanity, and around seventeen basic variations of that story.
> 
> That story is *"Somebody wants something badly, and tries to get it." *
> 
> ...




Huh that's funny, because Rey didn't want anything in this movie. She had absolutely no motivation to go on that journey or any reason to do anything of what she did. She was just dragged along and solved every problem because lol.

*Spoiler*: __ 



She also lacks any personality whatsoever


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Jan 1, 2016)

Super Mike said:


> The prequels are uniquely awful as in how could they make the origin story of Darth Vader so terrible



but pod racing bro


----------



## Stunna (Jan 1, 2016)

Jouten said:


> Huh that's funny, because Rey didn't want anything in this movie.


Rey wanted to be reunited with the family that abandoned her on Jakku.


----------



## Mikaveli (Jan 1, 2016)

Mesa likesa to drive fasta


----------



## Jouten (Jan 1, 2016)

Stunna said:


> Rey wanted to be reunited with the family that abandoned her on Jakku.



Maybe, but she did absolutely nothing to achieve that and at the halfwaypoint she gave up on that anyway.


----------



## Stunna (Jan 1, 2016)

Dat Sebulba.


----------



## Stunna (Jan 1, 2016)

Jouten said:


> Maybe...


There is no maybe. Regardless of how poor the execution may have been, that _was_ what she wanted.


----------



## Jouten (Jan 1, 2016)

Stunna said:


> There is no maybe. Regardless of how poor the execution may have been, that _was_ what she wanted.



But what does it matter to the movie if it's absolutely irrelevant to the story?


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Jan 1, 2016)

Don't you mean MARY SUE marysuemarysue <screeching noises> <glass shattering>


----------



## tari101190 (Jan 1, 2016)

...There are 17 steps to the heroes journey.

Rey received the call to adventure in this movie. And she also classically refused to call to adventure, before finally crossing into the threshold when she tapped into the force and went after Luke. This is only act 1.

Kylo is already on act 2, where he faced his temptress and had his big showdown with his father figure and is facing his own series of trials before gaining his boon or whatever and going so far over the deep end that now he has to be brought back.

Rey does have personality. Her being a Sue is something else.

Her motivation for being 'Rey' is fine. She is becoming a hero, she isn't the hero yet. But she is motivated I guess by Han's death or something?


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Jan 1, 2016)

I feel like the overall greater motivator is when the First Order decided to go ham and start blowing up planets.


----------



## Mikaveli (Jan 1, 2016)

I think Rey's motivation is to a way lesser extent finding the Rebellion cool, and mostly Finn. Not necessarily romantically, but they care about each other and I think she wants to go on space adventures and shit more than she wants to save the galaxy atm


----------



## tari101190 (Jan 1, 2016)

> I think Rey's motivation is to a way lesser extent finding the Rebellion cool, and mostly Finn. Not necessarily romantically, but they care about each other and I think she wants to go on space adventures and shit more than she wants to save the galaxy atm


Finn isn't her motivation. He just grounds her serves as a way to make her a fleshed out character. Cos she interacts with him and showcases emotions with him.

She doesn't want space adventure either. She wants to find her family and her reason for being. She wants to find her identity.



WAD said:


> I feel like the overall greater motivator is when the First Order decided to go ham and start blowing up planets.


Rey knows nothing about any of that so it is not what motivates her.

Rey's story isn't the same as the overall star wars story. Which is a big part of why I don't think she's a Skywalker too, but not too relevant. I think Kylo is the Skywalker of this story.


----------



## Jouten (Jan 1, 2016)

I find Rey to be an incredibly boring character. Especially because she doesn't really have anywhere to go from here except become even more overpowered (How is Kylo even supposed to be a threat anymore when Rey can beat him without any training at all and just powering up from one second to the other AND her prolly getting trained by Luke now?) 

I think the only way Rey and Kylo could have an interesting fight now is if they switched sides and Rey turns to the Dark Side and Kylo redeems himself. Kylo is the underdog here and Rey, the perfect and super talented character she is would make a perfect fall from grace. Maybe they can depict a more realistic story of Anakin with Rey. 
Then again there doesn't really seem to be anything or anyone to her that could possibly shake her so much as to turn her to the dark side. She doesn't really have anyone to care about. Yeah there was Han Solo who she made her father figure after 5 minutes of talking to him, but we all know where he is now and she doesn't really seem like it fazed her that much. 

But because she doesn't really have anyone to truly care about, it might be cool if she just turns powerhungry and arrogant. Just an all out "Who's gonna stop me? I'm the most powerful being in the universe and I would make a just ruler foreveryone"


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Jan 1, 2016)

I feel like she was probably informed offscreen back at the base :go

But fair enough, yeah. I think it's fairly evident she hasn't found her resolve yet which showed in her pained expression when attempting to hand Luke back his lightsaber.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 1, 2016)

no way the Han Solo father killer is getting redeemed


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Jan 1, 2016)

Yeah, I don't think he's getting redeemed either.


----------



## Stunna (Jan 1, 2016)

If he gets redeemed, it'll be through a heroic sacrifice, like his grandfather.


----------



## Jouten (Jan 1, 2016)

Weiss said:


> no way the Han Solo father killer is getting redeemed



If Anakin the child murderer can get redeemed, so can Kylo 

Kylo realizing he's wrong and having to deal with the fact that he killed his own father could make a really interesting character though


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 1, 2016)

I dont consider Vader "redeemed" either tbh 


so killing the monstrous mad Emperor whom you already hated anyway makes up for slaughtering children, becoming a Sith and hunting & killing good guys for more then 2 decades ?  

nope


----------



## tari101190 (Jan 1, 2016)

Redemption in this context simply means, pulled away from the dark side. It is made very clear Kylo isn't evil and his actions are the cause of Snoke's manipulation.

Same way Anakin was redeemed. Doesn't mean they are forgiven for their crimes. Just as long as it is clear their are internally no longer evil. If he was still alive, he would be in prison or executed for sure.

And Rey maybe seems boring cos everyone loves her and she's great at everything she attempts...just cos.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 1, 2016)

I always thought that Vaders moment with Luke was good but then him just popping up as a Force Ghost smiling and chilling with Yoder and Obi-Wan was a bit much


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Jan 1, 2016)

I honestly think they're trying to set him up to surpass Vader, both in power and as a character.

That is why we saw the inner conflict and cognitive dissonance now, because as time goes on with each episode we will see his resolve steel more and more. 

He is pretty much considered 'the pretender' now, and it would be awfully unfulfilling if he just ended up as a Vader-lite by series end. His predicted redemption is, in my opinion, the sequels' red herring.


----------



## Jouten (Jan 1, 2016)

Weiss said:


> I dont consider Vader "redeemed" either tbh
> 
> 
> so killing the monstrous mad Emperor whom you already hated anyway makes up for slaughtering children, becoming a Sith and hunting & killing good guys for more then 2 decades ?
> ...



Well he was allowed to partake at the Ewok party as a ghost so...


----------



## Stunna (Jan 1, 2016)

Weiss said:


> I dont consider Vader "redeemed" either tbh


Have you...have you seen RotJ?


----------



## BlazingInferno (Jan 1, 2016)

Bender said:


> @Stunna
> 
> Lucas had a problem with his films though:
> 
> ...



Seeing interviews with this guy, I can see why. He is socially awkward af. Not sure how he failed to find anyone to direct the prequels.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 1, 2016)

what do you mean Stunna


and dont ask rhetorical questions, just say what you mean


----------



## tari101190 (Jan 1, 2016)

In Ep 8 he will be at the height of his dark power hopefully.

He should hopefully fight Rey and win.

But I think he'll turn before the climax of ep 9. Maybe even at the end of ep 8.

Maybe Rey does go dark at that point or whatever, I dunno.

And he'll go into self exile at the end of the story.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 1, 2016)

gotta leave some time for Snoke Plagueis

cant be all about Kylo


----------



## Jouten (Jan 1, 2016)

WAD said:


> I honestly think they're trying to set him up to surpass Vader, both in power and as a character.
> 
> That is why we saw the inner conflict and cognitive dissonance now, because as time goes on with each episode we will see his resolve steel more and more.
> 
> He is pretty much considered 'the pretender' now, and it would be awfully unfulfilling if he just ended up as a Vader-lite by series end. His predicted redemption is, in my opinion, the sequels' red herring.



Ugh but I hate this "pretend you're doing X, but then simply not doing it" storytelling. It just makes all the buildup and the time spent doing it feel pointless and just feels like a bad joke or wasted time.


----------



## Stunna (Jan 1, 2016)

Weiss said:


> what do you mean Stunna


>"I don't consider Vader redeemed"


----------



## tari101190 (Jan 1, 2016)

Weiss said:


> gotta leave some time for Snoke Plagueis
> 
> cant be all about Kylo


Yeah I mean the climax of 9 is the showdown with Plagueis. Where Kylo fights Plagueis alongside Luke.

Maybe he recovered his staff from Rey by then. Maybe Rey fights alongside Kylo and Luke.


----------



## tari101190 (Jan 1, 2016)

Just harmless speculation.

Same theory even if he is simply Snoke. Name just adds mythology and backstory and weight to him.


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 1, 2016)

Snoke is clearly Luke 

The Luke rey meets is the time travelling force ghost from after his redemption


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Jan 1, 2016)

imo kylo kills snoke at end of episode 8/beginning of episode 9 of his own accord and is the big bad that needs to be defeated at the end but yea, harmless speculation


----------



## BlazingInferno (Jan 1, 2016)

Hope Snoke doesn't wait to show up in person until Episode 9.


----------



## Bender (Jan 1, 2016)

Agrees

Hopefully Snoke is a badass mofo and aint just about force lightning like Palpatine was.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 1, 2016)

need to introduce some new Dark Side abilities into the movies


EU was full of OP shit


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 1, 2016)

well he did spam A LOT of FL in the movies


----------



## Bender (Jan 1, 2016)

@Weiss

Some would say too much force lightning.


----------



## Atlas (Jan 1, 2016)

Weiss said:


> well he did spam A LOT of FL in the movies



The man has a favored form of torture. What's wrong with that?


----------



## Stunna (Jan 2, 2016)




----------



## Pilaf (Jan 2, 2016)

Bender said:


> Agrees
> 
> Hopefully Snoke is a badass mofo and aint just about force lightning like Palpatine was.



Snoke's gonna introduce Force Snuff into the movies and things will turn really dark.

50 Shades of Force


----------



## Lucaniel (Jan 2, 2016)

[YOUTUBE]WhgcOhAwxws[/YOUTUBE]

source vid btw

i wish lupita had been in the movie herself instead of as exposition dwarf and she'd had a real character


----------



## Orochibuto (Jan 2, 2016)

I hope Snoke gives life to the "the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant, next to the power of the Force"

And yeah, I know Turrin will say Palpatine already demonstrated that by turning the Republic into the Empire, but that was more of a feat of manipulation than pure outright force ability.


----------



## Zeta42 (Jan 2, 2016)

Weiss said:


> need to introduce some new Dark Side abilities into the movies
> 
> 
> EU was full of OP shit


I didn't read much of EU, but the movies could take something from the games. KotOR2 had a neat Insanity power that made enemies hallucinate with nightmares (not that it showed what they see, but still). Then there's Drain Life which regenerates your wounds by feeding on someone else's life force... Really, the dark side is said to have unlimited potential and we barely see what it can do, I agree that they need to show more.


----------



## Ultra Instinct Vegito (Jan 2, 2016)

The movie was good imo. I see so many people losing their minds over the main character being a female on other forums and IMDB  for some reason though.


----------



## Deer Lord (Jan 2, 2016)

Jouten said:


> But because she doesn't really have anyone to truly care about, it might be cool if she just turns powerhungry and arrogant. Just an all out "Who's gonna stop me? I'm the most powerful being in the universe and I would make a just ruler foreveryone"


[YOUTUBE]spHEw2n9LwE[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Jouten (Jan 2, 2016)

Deer Lord said:


> [YOUTUBE]spHEw2n9LwE[/YOUTUBE]




Yeah something like that, but actually pulled off. That would be cool.



Saturno said:


> The movie was good imo. I see so many people losing their minds over the main character being a female on other forums and IMDB  for some reason though.




The problem is not that Rey is female. It's not like TFA is the first movie to ever have a female lead.
The problem with Rey is that she is an incredibly boring character with no personality that is overly competent at everything despite her inexperience and is better than everyone else at it, even better than established veterans. And is overly loved by everyone despite her actions and personality not really warranting such strong emotional responses. 
And despite her being the main character having no real connection to the plot. Her motivation doesn't fit with her actions and all conflicts thrown at her magically dissolve without any sense of character or plot progression. She solves all problems because that's what she does. How are you suppsoed to get invested in character with no real motivation and that just solves every conflict magically without any trouble? She is a canon character but she feels like a fanfic character written in by someone else.

And don't get me wrong, I loved TFA. Maybe I should take my time and say what I loved about the movie after hating on Rey so much. Finn was surprisingly sympathetic and BB8 was surprisingly funny despite being a blatant R2D2 replacement and Poe turned out to be an unexpected bro. The action sequences in the movie were amazing, the director knows how to do epic scenes. When the Star Killer base destroyed the 5 planets I legitimately got goosebumps.
And Kylo Ren quickly became my favorite Star Wars villain. I just love the concept of some fanboy trying to imitate Darth Vader but losing his temper way too easily and throwing childish tantrums when he doesn't get what he wants. 

But the movie would definitely be 10x better if Rey was simply removed from the movie. Because her only purpose is to just be there and have a parade about how awesome she is.


----------



## Tom Servo (Jan 2, 2016)

Kylo Ren is the most powerful force user apparently...


----------



## Ultra Instinct Vegito (Jan 2, 2016)

Ken's okay, but that's just being a fanboy .


----------



## Tom Servo (Jan 2, 2016)

Saturno said:


> Ken's okay, but that's just being a fanboy .



Sorry I like Kylo Ren but he's fodder even by Jedi standards. (Couldn't overwhelm someone who was unaware she even had the force, barely won in a fight with a stormtrooper armed with a lightsaber and snoke said his trainig wasn't even finished) vs. characters who can life-wipe planets and rip apart powerful force users with their bare hands.


----------



## tari101190 (Jan 2, 2016)

*Star Wars General Speculation & Discusion*

I was thinking eps 10, 11, and 12 will be a new trilogy with all new cast and previous characters will merely cameo.

Or could a new trilogy set in the past long before ep 1 work?


----------



## tari101190 (Jan 2, 2016)

If a sun was somehow removed from a solar system, wouldn't the surrounding planets die anyway?


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 2, 2016)

tari101190 said:


> If a sun was somehow removed from a solar system, wouldn't the surrounding planets die anyway?



define die

a planet isn't alive so it can't die

everything on it would die but the planet would be happy spinning off into the abyss


----------



## sworder (Jan 2, 2016)

Tom Servo said:


> Sorry I like Kylo Ren but he's fodder even by Jedi standards. (Couldn't overwhelm someone who was unaware she even had the force, barely won in a fight with a stormtrooper armed with a lightsaber and snoke said his trainig wasn't even finished) vs. characters who can life-wipe planets and rip apart powerful force users with their bare hands.



Not sure why people keep quoting noncanon material

Movie jedis aren't that strong


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 2, 2016)

I sense Tom Servo has maybe spent too much time in the OBD ?


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 2, 2016)

^ literally this

watching obd nooblords come out of the obd to post about shit is always hilarious


----------



## Bender (Jan 2, 2016)

*George Lucas Apologizes For Calling Disney 'White Slavers' *



> LOS ANGELES (AP) — George Lucas has apologized for criticizing Disney's handling of "Star Wars" and saying he had sold his characters to "white slavers" in a recent interview with Charlie Rose.
> 
> In a statement issued Thursday, Lucas says he misspoke and used a "very inappropriate analogy." It was not clear what the "Star Wars" creator meant by the "white slavers" comment, and Rose did not ask a follow-up question on his PBS show that aired Dec. 24. The charged words nonetheless sparked ire when the interview was posted online Wednesday.
> 
> ...





As someone in the comment section of this article said:



> Rotten Tomatoes lists The Phantom Penace has 56% Fresh, with 60% audience approval. It lists The Force Awakens as 94% Fresh, with 90% audience approval.
> 
> The best thing you ever did for the Star Wars franchise, George, was get out of its way.



Compared to J.J's writings yours are that of a 5 year olds. 

I'm sorry but that's the truth.


----------



## Jouten (Jan 2, 2016)

I just hope Snoke is more than a carbon copy of the emperor. Not any silly stuff like Darth Plagueis that doesn't make sense just to give an excuse to be more powerful, but make him more interesting in his own regard like they did with Kylo Ren.


----------



## BlueDemon (Jan 2, 2016)

So consensus here's that TFA is better than anything Lucas did, or what?

I wasn't that impressed with the movie, tbh.


----------



## Stunna (Jan 2, 2016)

I'd say that's the consensus, with a few crazed exceptions, yes.


----------



## Lucaniel (Jan 2, 2016)

BlueDemon said:


> So consensus here's that TFA is better than anything Lucas did, or what?
> 
> I wasn't that impressed with the movie, tbh.



well lucas did ANH

but it's a damn sight better than the prequels, which are garbage


----------



## Jouten (Jan 2, 2016)

BlueDemon said:


> So consensus here's that TFA is better than anything Lucas did, or what?
> 
> I wasn't that impressed with the movie, tbh.



Better than Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones at least. Debatable about Revenge of the Sith. I don't feel like a clone of the Original Trilogy should be considered better than the Original Trilogy.
We'll have to see how these movies will be remembered after the hype dies down.


----------



## BlueDemon (Jan 2, 2016)

Stunna said:


> I'd say that's the consensus, with a few crazed exceptions, yes.





Lucaniel said:


> well lucas did ANH
> 
> but it's a damn sight better than the prequels, which are garbage



I wasn't really doubting that's true when talking about the prequels, but the original trilogy? Come on.

Though I really have to say I haven't watched the movies in...like a few years. Need to refresh my memory. But I guess the recycled plot just didn't sit that well with me.


----------



## Stunna (Jan 2, 2016)

BlueDemon said:


> I wasn't really doubting that's true when talking about the prequels, but the original trilogy? Come on.


Lucas didn't write the entirety of the original trilogy.

No, TFA isn't on par with the originals.


----------



## Bender (Jan 2, 2016)

Honestly looking back at the prequels TFA surpasses each and everyone of those disasters. 

Phantom Menace was a blatant kids piece and Attack of the clones and revenge of the sith had the worst romance dialogue I've ever heard with me own ears.


----------



## Lucaniel (Jan 2, 2016)

Jouten said:


> Better than Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones at least. *Debatable about Revenge of the Sith.* I don't feel like a clone of the Original Trilogy should be considered better than the Original Trilogy.
> We'll have to see how these movies will be remembered after the hype dies down.





it is MUCH better than revenge of the sith





BlueDemon said:


> I wasn't really doubting that's true when talking about the prequels, but the original trilogy? Come on.
> 
> Though I really have to say I haven't watched the movies in...like a few years. Need to refresh my memory. But I guess the recycled plot just didn't sit that well with me.



i literally just said ANH was the exception

what are you doing


----------



## Stunna (Jan 2, 2016)

tfw RotJ would have been better if Lucas hadn't co-written


----------



## Lucaniel (Jan 2, 2016)

rotj is the one i think tfa is close to or about as good as

tfa sure doesn't have the highs but it doesn't have the lows

and they both have "another death star?!" syndrome


----------



## Stunna (Jan 2, 2016)

it's true

TFA's pacing was much better than RotJ's, and there was nothing in TFA as silly as the Ewok nonsense

but those RotJ highs


----------



## Bender (Jan 2, 2016)

Return of the jedi had really dumb plot holes.

For one:

What the fuck shit with the rebels plan sneaking past an empire vessel with a stolen one?  Luke and his friends should count their lucky stars that Vader wasn't in angry fucker mode and casually blow them to bits.

Secondly, how the hell do some primitive species like the Ewoks who only weaponry consists of pointy rock spear sticks know how to braid Leia's hair?


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 2, 2016)

RotJ has my favorite SW line ever:

"I am a Jedi, like my father before me"


----------



## Lucaniel (Jan 2, 2016)

i enjoyed that line a lot

shivers fam


----------



## BlueDemon (Jan 2, 2016)

Stunna said:


> Lucas didn't write the entirety of the original trilogy.
> 
> No, TFA isn't on par with the originals.



And here's where I lack knowledge, I must admit. 



Lucaniel said:


> i literally just said ANH was the exception
> 
> what are you doing



That was addressing Stunna's statement from above where he was talking about the consensus. Though I equated original trilogy = written by Lucas, which isn't apparently entirely true (though ANH seems to be indeed written by him alone, at least according to wiki).

But don't mind me too much, I don't really consider myself a huge fan, I'm more of a Star Wars casual...always enjoyed reading EU stuff on the wiki though (which I've forgotten already).


----------



## Bender (Jan 2, 2016)

RoTJ's pacing was way worse than TFA. As pointed out in video I posted pages back: the Jabba the hut mission was stupid elaborate. They could have made it nice and simple but noooo they had to be so dramatic to the point it's ridiculous as hell.


Btw guys the existence of the death star in TFA is actually justifiable. The first order needed to showcase a weapon that had the galaxy terrified of them. The Starkiller accomplished that.


----------



## Stunna (Jan 2, 2016)

what does the primitive culture of the Ewoks have to do with braiding hair tho lol


----------



## Stunna (Jan 2, 2016)

The Jabba intro was cobtrived, but it was fun

It was also pointless

But still


----------



## Mikaveli (Jan 2, 2016)

There a reason you couldn't use one of the other two Star Wars threads to ask this?


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Jan 2, 2016)

I think the next trilogy after this one, Episodes X, XI & XII will be set up after a few years of the current one. Finn, Rey and Poe will still appear but we'll be introducing other new characters. Leia , Luke and even Chewbaca might no longer appear. But the droids like C3PO, R2D2 and BB-8 will, these characters are like constant in the saga and at this point immortal, they can't die, etc. They pretty much record all of the events in Star Wars.

Depending on how the character of Snoke is dealt with and if he's or not Plagueis then we'll see the aftermath of that character in the next trilogy. Personally I would wish that Snoke is in cohoots with Plagueis and after his defeat Plagueis will have no choice but to come out of the shadows and get involved in X, XI & XII.


----------



## Mider T (Jan 2, 2016)

What "next trilogy" are you guys talking about?


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Jan 2, 2016)

BTW I just found this, seems it'll be relevant for this thread's discussions onward:



> *Star Wars dates: Here's when the next five movies will be released*
> 
> You just saw The Force Awakens and want more next-gen Star Wars. Well, you’re going to get more. A lot more. Regularly and steadily, for many years to come. But when, specifically, will each new title be released? Below is Disney’s not-quite-top-secret plan. Obviously, these dates are subject to change. Thankfully, no Bothans died to bring us this information …
> 
> ...


----------



## Raiden (Jan 2, 2016)

Amazing how productive they have been in a short amount of time. I wonder why .


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Jan 2, 2016)

Also hope that Snoke isn't about Force Lightning attacks. He is a giant as far as we know so they should use that in his favour in some way.



Weiss said:


> RotJ has my favorite SW line ever:
> 
> "I am a Jedi, like my father before me"



"So be it...Jedi."


----------



## martryn (Jan 2, 2016)

Just like the Marvel films, Star Wars is a money maker.  I hope they keep churning these out because, just like the Marvel films, I'm eating it up.


----------



## Bender (Jan 2, 2016)

@Sennin

"From my point of view the jedi are evil!" 

@Stunna

It's exactly as I said about the Ewoks. It's contradictory that their weaponry is so childish yet their knowledge is cosmetics is exemplary. 

Also the Jabba the Hut plot was a stupid unnecessarily  elaborate and flashy opening. Nothing was fun about an hour and a half rescue for Han.


----------



## Deer Lord (Jan 2, 2016)

Snoke might actually literally be a clone of palpatine.


----------



## Bender (Jan 2, 2016)

@Deer Lord

Lol sweet and if so we get a loose adaptation of the overrated story of Dark Empire.


----------



## Deer Lord (Jan 2, 2016)

Gotta say that the none centerpiece movies sound kinda meh
I'd far more like an Old Republic trilogy.


----------



## Bluebeard (Jan 2, 2016)

They should've just made Snoke a woman like they had originally planned. Would've been a lot more creative than the Emperor 2.0 which is what he seems like so far.


----------



## BlueDemon (Jan 2, 2016)

^ Woman protagonist AND antagonist?! 

Too much SJW to handle?


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Jan 2, 2016)

> *BOX OFFICE: STAR WARS: TFA Passes AGE OF ULTRON As It Takes Aim At AVATAR's #1 Spot*
> 
> Tomorrow, Star Wars: The Force Awakens wil pass Avengers: Age of Ultron to become the sixth biggest movie of all-time, and The Wrap reports that its current performance points to the J.J. Abrams helmed release overtaking both Titanic and Avatar to become the world's highest grossing film. It took in $25 million from overseas on Friday, taking its total there to $704 million. Throw in its $686 million domestic haul (the movie broke the record for the most made on New Year's Day yesterday), and it has a worldwide cume of $1.39 billion in around just three weeks. It opens in China this month, while the site adds that Star Wars: The Force Awakens has a chance to beat James Cameron's record holders because it's, _"packing that kind of punch at the box office."_ It should still top Avatar's domestic record in the next few days and is expected to have passed Furious 7, The Avengers, and Jurassic World on the worldwide chart this week. Impressive!


----------



## dream (Jan 2, 2016)

> reports that its current performance points to the J.J. Abrams helmed release overtaking both Titanic and *Avatar*


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 2, 2016)

dont be so sure, Dream


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 2, 2016)

It won't take Avatar unless it remains in theatres for half a year

plausible tbf

but idk

avatar was a perfect storm of various things that should be essentially unrepeatable at this point.


----------



## Stunna (Jan 2, 2016)

Bender said:


> It's exactly as I said about the Ewoks. It's contradictory that their weaponry is so childish yet their knowledge is cosmetics is exemplary.
> 
> Also the Jabba the Hut plot was a stupid unnecessarily  elaborate and flashy opening. Nothing was fun about an hour and a half rescue for Han.


I mean, alright.


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Jan 2, 2016)




----------



## Stunna (Jan 2, 2016)

just got back from seeing the movie a second time; this time I saw it in 3D (which was nice.)

a second viewing didn't alleviate much of my problems with it, but I still enjoyed myself


----------



## Bender (Jan 2, 2016)

I'll go see it again in IMAX 3D when I'm certain I'll get a good fucking seat in theatres and not in the section where the handicap fuckers sit next to the exit.


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Jan 2, 2016)

i wouldn't give JJ all the credit.


----------



## A. Waltz (Jan 2, 2016)

anyways i have a few theories about rey

i dont think luke had a son, if not he would have named him Ben and that name is already taken

could be luke's daughter but at the same time i think he would be too into the jedi ways to have a child since falling in love and shit is non-jedi. 

maybe han and leia's child. i dont think she and kylo are twins cuz that'd be too much straight up copying. but perhaps after kylo was born, leia got pregnant or something but then she or luke had a vision about how kylo would turn evil and go after the baby girl (or how some other baddie would try to kill the baby cuz she's got skywalker blood in her or some shit. or maybe the return of the sith/snoke going after jedi and shit). so they all decided to hide away the baby on some distant planet so she would be safe. so maybe they sent her to jakku and she grew up there and then that flashback happened where her adoptive family were taken away happened (and she probably didn't know she was adopted). could explain why han is such a father figure and they kept finishing each other's sentences and shit. plus she looks like her grandma


----------



## Gilgamesh (Jan 2, 2016)

BlueDemon said:


> So consensus here's that TFA is better than anything Lucas did, or what?
> 
> I wasn't that impressed with the movie, tbh.



No it is not better than TPM and ROTS.

But these people will wake up soon enough, they're blinded by their stupid and irrational hate for the PT and Lucas.


> TFA's pacing was much better than RotJ's, and there was nothing in TFA as silly as the Ewok nonsense
> 
> but those RotJ highs



Rey being a perfect Mary Sue and Kylo being a joke were silly


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Jan 2, 2016)

A. Waltz said:


> could be luke's daughter but at the same time i think he would be too into the jedi ways to have a child since falling in love and shit is non-jedi.



In the EU Luke allowed the jedi to have families since he felt that it was forbidden love that decimated them in the first place.

Don't know if that's the route they'll take, i'm just saying.


----------



## A. Waltz (Jan 2, 2016)

~Gesy~ said:


> In the EU Luke allowed the jedi to have families since he felt that it was forbidden love that decimated them in the first place.
> 
> Don't know if that's the route they'll take, i'm just saying.



oh that's good to hear then lol

lolanakin

did anybody else hear kylo's voice in rey's flashback/vision? when she was a little girl and her mom was being taken away, and there was somebody holding little rey back. i heard kylo's voice say something but idk if that was specific to that flashback or just a voice over for the entire vision sequence she was having. my sister didn't notice it so im wondering if anyone else here noticed it.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 2, 2016)

Gilgamesh


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 2, 2016)

A. Waltz said:


> could be luke's daughter but at the same time i think he would be too into the jedi ways to have a child since falling in love and shit is non-jedi.



ah yes

luke with his vast knowledge and understanding of the jedi order


----------



## tari101190 (Jan 2, 2016)

*Regarding Finn's character*

Why were there no scenes or dialogue showing us that Finn was struggling with the fact that he had to kill his stormtrooper brothers and sisters?

He left the First Order cos he didn't want to kill (innocent people).

I understand he had no choice but to fight to kill in order to defend himself, but surely we should have seen that it was incredibly difficult for him.

When will the PTSD kick in?

He was a slave trained against his nature for war, couldn't go through with the warring, went awol, and was forced to kill his fellow slave soldiers.

This is a really big deal for me. He should be far more than the wisecracking sidekick whose only purpose is to ground the main character.

I am hopeful that Rian Johnson will follow this up and give Finn PTSD when he wakes up though.

Finn's character arc shouldn't simply be be friendship or whatever.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Jan 2, 2016)

>He left the First Order cos he didn't want to kill.

Did he leave because of pacifism or because of the injustice witnessed?   He was asked to shoot unarmed villagers, but decided that's not his path. Doesn't mean he wouldn't do so for what he deemed the right cause. (unless there's important dialogue i'm forgetting that said otherwise)

As for PTSD kicking in--it's too late for that, it would come of weird if it suddenly happened; atleast in my opinion.


----------



## Tom Servo (Jan 2, 2016)

sworder said:


> Not sure why people keep quoting noncanon material
> 
> Movie jedis aren't that strong



Actually they are incredibly strong still especially with given shit that's still canon. you can play stupid all you want hell you're pretty talented at it, but don't give that shit that Kylo Ren is top tier because he stopped a blaster because that's pretty retarded.


----------



## A. Waltz (Jan 2, 2016)

Nighty said:


> ah yes
> 
> luke with his vast knowledge and understanding of the jedi order



he doesn't have a vast knowledge of it lol that's why he was searching for the jedi temple to learn more about it


----------



## Vault (Jan 2, 2016)

Gesy what the fuck is happening bro  

You aren't the old Gesy  where is he you imposter?


----------



## A. Waltz (Jan 2, 2016)

tari101190 said:


> Why were there no scenes or dialogue showing us that Finn was struggling with the fact that he had to kill his stormtrooper brothers and sisters?
> 
> He left the First Order cos he didn't want to kill (innocent people).
> 
> I understand he had no choice but to fight to kill in order to defend himself, but surely we should have seen that it was incredibly difficult for him.



we DID see that it was difficult for him. in the very first scenes. show, not tell. the movie did a good job of that.



> When will the PTSD kick in?
> 
> He was a slave trained against his nature for war, couldn't go through with the warring, went awol, and was forced to kill his fellow slave soldiers.
> 
> ...



i found it weird when finn was easily killing other storm troopers and stuff during the other battles after having that moment on jakku with the dead storm trooper. i thought he would have been less violent towards them so i dont think he's necessarily a pacifist or afraid of fighting, but he's probably just more against the injustice of killing innocent people.

it would be nice to see him have PTSD after. 

the stormtrooper general woman made it seem as if he was just a clone who had been made and had never had defects beforehand. yet he said he was taken from his family as a young kid so that sort of retconned that. he's such a ''funny'' sidekick character, it's almost hard to believe that he was ever brainwashed or made to kill. it's as if whatever attempts they had to brainwash storm troopers just didn't work on him and he just chose to stick with them out of his free will lol. almost like a kid who chose to join the navy and didn't even think twice about leaving until his first fight. i hope they explain his past a bit more, he's obviously not a straight up clone. does the first order just recruit and steal kids now? 

i felt like they just decided to make finn the clueless newcomer so that audiences who were new to the series could relate and shit. he didn't know what a wookie was, doesn't even know droid language. a very 4th wall, audience intro character. kind of wish he was a bit more than that though. their intentions with him were too obvious. all of that 21st century-sounding dialogue he had..


----------



## Stunna (Jan 2, 2016)

Gilgamesh said:


> No it is not better than TPM and ROTS.
> 
> But these people will wake up soon enough, they're blinded by their stupid and irrational hate for the PT and Lucas.


I don't irrationally hate the prequels and I don't hate Lucas

TFA > TPM and RotS





> Rey being a perfect Mary Sue and Kylo being a joke were silly


not sillier than Ewoks making fools out of the Empire, nawp



Nighty said:


> ah yes
> 
> luke with his vast knowledge and understanding of the jedi order


there's no reason why Obi-Wan couldn't have taught Luke a thing or two about the ways of the Jedi during the Republic era.



~Gesy~ said:


> Did he leave because of pacifism or *because of the injustice witnessed*?


The latter.

I had the same issue myself, but after rewatching the movie, it's clear to me that Finn wasn't against killing in general, just against killing innocents

the First Order's soldiers are not innocents


----------



## Pocalypse (Jan 2, 2016)

tari101190 said:


> Why were there no scenes or dialogue showing us that Finn was struggling with the fact that he had to kill his stormtrooper brothers and sisters?
> 
> He left the First Order cos he didn't want to kill (innocent people).
> 
> I understand he had no choice but to fight to kill in order to defend himself, but surely we should have seen that it was incredibly difficult for him.



It's not something he can be hesistant on after witnessing what he witnessed when he was forced to kill the innocent villagers. Unless there are others like Finn in the First Order...he knows they are just ruthless killers, he shouldn't have to show any emotion or discomfort when killing them.


----------



## tari101190 (Jan 2, 2016)

He was raised with them. They are brothers in arms. They are the only family he knows.



			
				me said:
			
		

> Why were there no scenes or dialogue showing us that Finn was struggling with the fact that he had to kill his stormtrooper brothers and sisters?
> 
> He left the First Order cos he didn't want to kill (innocent people).
> 
> ...


----------



## Stunna (Jan 2, 2016)

> the stormtrooper general woman made it seem as if he was just a clone who had been made and had never had defects beforehand.


there was no implication that Finn was a clone

a point was made that the First Order doesn't use clones (for some reason)


----------



## Stunna (Jan 2, 2016)

tari101190 said:


> He was raised with them. They are brothers in arms. They are the only family he knows.


We don't know if he regards them as family or not.


----------



## tari101190 (Jan 2, 2016)

He knows them intimately. He is one of them an they are all he knew and all he had.

Him breaking away from that is enough material for his own film.

Yet he was relegated to...wise cracking black sidekick...


----------



## The World (Jan 2, 2016)

stunna stop trying to be Finn 

it's not gonna happen


----------



## sworder (Jan 2, 2016)

Tom Servo said:


> Actually they are incredibly strong still especially with given shit that's still canon. you can play stupid all you want hell you're pretty talented at it, but don't give that shit that Kylo Ren is top tier because he stopped a blaster because that's pretty retarded.



nowhere in my post did i talk about kylo

EU is not canon anymore, no one cares

stay  mad


----------



## The World (Jan 2, 2016)

secondary canon


----------



## A. Waltz (Jan 2, 2016)

tari101190 said:


> He knows them intimately. He is one of them an they are all he knew and all he had.
> 
> Him breaking away from that is enough material for his own film.
> 
> Yet he was relegated to...wise cracking black sidekick...



it was shown how tense it was living in the first order. the second he took off his helmet, he got yelled at. i doubt he ever considered them family with how hostile they treated everybody. they have numbers as names. show, not tell.


----------



## tari101190 (Jan 2, 2016)

Found this:

*Greg Rucka’s Star Wars novel Before the Awakening...Explains much about Finn’s stormtrooper training and social circle leading up to the movie. *


> In a nutshell:
> 
> *Finn was trained in a squad of four boys: Him (FN-2187), Nines, Zero and Slip.
> *Nines and Zero have nicknames based on their alphanumerical designations (Zero’s is FN-2003, likely used by the ficcer mentioned above, Nines ended in 9s, etc.). Slip was called slip because he was a fuckup.
> ...


----------



## A. Waltz (Jan 2, 2016)

defense on rey being called a mary sue in regards to her expertise with mechanics:

she had a rebel pilot doll, wore that rebel pilot helmet all sentimentally, pretty much lives in an abandoned jet (looks like it), spends all of her time scavenging for parts in old empire ships and other types of ships.

i think if anything she's just a fangirl, and plus her scavenging time probably made her knowledgeable of how ships work and the parts they have and what not. doesn't mean she's perfect at flying em, but she's smart enough to at least fend for herself and figure stuff out. 

i think her moments of "besting" han when fixing the MF was just more of a new dog knowing more tricks than an old dog. i mean this is like 30 years later, han is older, he hadn't even used that crossbow gun thing before. she's younger, she's probably exposed to old ships but they might be a bit newer or advanced than the MF "piece of junk." i think it's only natural for somebody younger to know a bit more about newer technologies than somebody old. that's like a grandpa having troubles with his phone but this young kid who has an iphone will obviously know how to fix it better than he did. probably a bad analogy, bad comparison. but you get the point. 

im more intrigued about why she had that rebel doll. is that related to her family? why is there a crashed empire ship on jakku? was there a big battle there? what was that battle about?

maybe if luke is her father, he didn't tell her who he was (luke skywalker) but he told her of all of their stories as if they were legends and since luke was a pilot once, he could have given her that helmet or doll or whatever. or maybe it wasn't luke and it was just somebody who knew about that shit and those were just her bedtime stories. but whoever it was, obviously knew about shit.


----------



## Stunna (Jan 2, 2016)

tari101190 said:


> He knows them intimately. He is one of them an they are all he knew and all he had.


saying they're family is speculation with zero basis in what's actually shown in the movie


----------



## A. Waltz (Jan 2, 2016)

Deer Lord said:


> Gotta say that the none centerpiece movies sound kinda meh
> I'd far more like an Old Republic trilogy.



same, id prefer this

dont give a shit about han solo's and boba fett's origin stories or about how r2 got the deathstar plans. it's just so unnecessary and adds nothing of value


----------



## Bender (Jan 2, 2016)

Weiss said:


> Gilgamesh



Anyone that says TPM,AOTC ROTS are good films

credibility=0

Those films are bloody terrible and the dialogue is a joke..

The original two are awesome however ROTJ just barely manages to be watchable..


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Jan 2, 2016)

You have no room to talk, Bender.


----------



## sworder (Jan 2, 2016)

the spin-off movies don't sound too exciting in theory because no jedi main character (and possibly no sith antagonist)

but I also thought GotG would suck with a bunch of nobodies and that was a pleasant surprise


----------



## Bender (Jan 2, 2016)

~Gesy~ said:


> You have no room to talk, Bender.


----------



## Atlas (Jan 2, 2016)

I don't really see why we need jedi/sith for a Star Wars movie to be good/interesting. I'm hoping we get a film that focuses on bountyhunters/underworld or maybe one that focuses on a squad of clone troopers.


----------



## Bender (Jan 2, 2016)

@Gesy

lol my misinterpreted, credible criticism of SW original films and prequels is hardly a good reference point for saying I have "no credibility".  

To truly believe that is  simply adorable







			
				sworder said:
			
		

> but I also thought GotG would suck with a bunch of nobodies and that was a pleasant surprise



Considering the number of box office successes Marvel cinematic universe has had I don't think I've ever once been pessimistic of one of their films released onto the big screen. They do splendidly.


----------



## Bender (Jan 2, 2016)

Atlas said:


> I don't really see why we need jedi/sith for a Star Wars movie to be good/interesting. I'm hoping we get a film that focuses on bountyhunters/underworld or maybe one that focuses on a squad of clone troopers.



That's shit that's applicable to a TV series. NOT the big screen.


----------



## Atlas (Jan 2, 2016)

Bender said:


> That's shit that's applicable to a TV series. NOT the big screen.



Why is that?


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Jan 2, 2016)

Bender said:


> credibility






Bender said:


> @Stunna
> 
> ANH was hardly ripped off by TFA. If anything it's a more brilliantly written version of ANH.


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Jan 2, 2016)

sworder said:


> but I also thought GotG would suck with a bunch of nobodies and that was a pleasant surprise



eh, i still thought they were a bunch of unlikable 1 to 2 dimensional losers.


----------



## Mikaveli (Jan 2, 2016)

So, since they're both owned by Marvel, GotG/Star Wars crossover?


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 2, 2016)

I fully expect a Marvel(Avengers)/SW crossover movie will become a reality one day


Mouse will make it happen


----------



## A. Waltz (Jan 2, 2016)

Atlas said:


> I don't really see why we need jedi/sith for a Star Wars movie to be good/interesting. I'm hoping we get a film that focuses on bountyhunters/underworld or maybe one that focuses on a squad of clone troopers.



i guess there's the clone wars tv show for that. that show is pretty enjoyable. would be awesome if there were a live action version but i do think it would require hayden christensen and ewan mcgregor. they could get a girl for ahsoka and what not. but it'd basically just be a like episode 2.5 lol. so kindaaa pointless cuz the cartoon exists already.

maybe if it had other jedi, that are not anakin/obi wan


----------



## Pocalypse (Jan 2, 2016)

Dat exposure


----------



## Atlas (Jan 2, 2016)

A. Waltz said:


> i guess there's the clone wars tv show for that. that show is pretty enjoyable. would be awesome if there were a live action version but i do think it would require hayden christensen and ewan mcgregor. they could get a girl for ahsoka and what not. but it'd basically just be a like episode 2.5 lol. so kindaaa pointless cuz the cartoon exists already.
> 
> maybe if it had other jedi, that are not anakin/obi wan



I'm talking something like Star Wars Republic Commando. I'm not asking for any of the characters you mentioned.


----------



## Bender (Jan 2, 2016)

Atlas said:


> Why is that?



Because it's following the exploits of a single character who isn't tied to every aspect of the story's universe and has large impact on the storyline.



> @Stunna
> 
> ANH was hardly ripped off by TFA. If anything it's a more brilliantly written version of ANH.



Calling TFA a more brilliantly written version of ANH? Yeah, I don't feel an iota of guilt saying that. SW TFA continuing to gross an immense amount of cash at the box office and fixing all the problems that fans said plagued the prequels (plus ROTJ) and made them laughable is turned around because of TFA.


----------



## Bender (Jan 2, 2016)

Pocalypse said:


> Dat exposure



And yet I don't feel bad at all about speaking my mind.


----------



## martryn (Jan 2, 2016)

> would be awesome if there were a live action version



We're on an anime forum, so I'm just going to flat out disagree with you.  The animated version works so well because no costly special effects, and voice actors, I feel, can nail roles much easier than most mediocre actors.  

Also, the Clone Wars heavily featured the jedi.  There were only a few episodes that weren't jedi centric.


----------



## A. Waltz (Jan 2, 2016)

martryn said:


> We're on an anime forum, so I'm just going to flat out disagree with you.  The animated version works so well because no costly special effects, and voice actors, I feel, can nail roles much easier than most mediocre actors.
> 
> Also, the Clone Wars heavily featured the jedi.  There were only a few episodes that weren't jedi centric.



ah yeah i really enjoy it animated

what i meant that it's really good, it'd be nice if the actual prequels were that good. like anakin's voice actor and animated gestures were much better than hayden christensen. the dialogue is better even though it's a kid show. the subplots with the storm troopers ect.


----------



## Bender (Jan 2, 2016)

martryn said:


> We're on an anime forum, so I'm just going to flat out disagree with you.  The animated version works so well because no costly special effects, and voice actors, I feel, can nail roles much easier than most mediocre actors.
> 
> Also, the Clone Wars heavily featured the jedi.  There were only a few episodes that weren't jedi centric.



@Martryn

Clone Wars by Gennedy or The Clone Wars?

I haven't watch any of The Clone Wars. 

Clone Wars I remember an episode with Padme and C-3PO.


----------



## martryn (Jan 2, 2016)

> what i meant that it's really good, it'd be nice if the actual prequels were that good. like anakin's voice actor and animated gestures were much better than hayden christensen. the dialogue is better even though it's a kid show. the subplots with the storm troopers ect.



I actually kinda wish the opposite.  I kinda want the prequel trilogies redone using the cast of the Clone Wars cartoon, all animated and everything.  



> @Martryn
> 
> Clone Wars by Gennedy or The Clone Wars?
> 
> ...



I meant the more recent one.  There were several episodes that didn't feature the jedi, but most of them did, even if they were minor jedi characters invented specifically for the show. 

There was a three or four part episode with a squad of droids that was... meh.  A few Senate specific episodes that didn't feature Anakin (several that did).  And a handful of clone-centric episodes, mainly the ones involved Fives.


----------



## Bender (Jan 2, 2016)

@Martryn

Yeaaaah, unfortunately I ain't watch The Clone Wars.


----------



## Karasu (Jan 2, 2016)

One thing I did enjoy in TFA - since Rey hasn't had any Jedi training, she's not so melancholic or unemotional. 

I'm kind of interested in seeing how Luke comes across in this regard.


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Jan 2, 2016)

so the soundtrack is growing on me a liiiiittle bit.


----------



## Karasu (Jan 2, 2016)

like a tumor, or? 


jk


----------



## martryn (Jan 2, 2016)

> Yeaaaah, unfortunately I ain't watch The Clone Wars.



It's on par with the original Clone Wars series, for sure.  A much more convincing portrayal of the fall of Anakin, in my opinion.


----------



## Bender (Jan 2, 2016)

@Martryn 

No matter how shown in series will always be a major  for me.


----------



## Mikaveli (Jan 2, 2016)

The Clone Wars is the shit


----------



## A. Waltz (Jan 2, 2016)

bloodplzkthxlol said:


> so the soundtrack is growing on me a liiiiittle bit.



there were moments where it sounded too typical-marvel-action-sequence to me.

i think prequels still have the better soundtracks

nothing beats duel of the fates, funeral theme, or across the stars (so far)

it was so jarring hearing that piano theme in the middle of a fucking desert during some of rey's scenes. like, wtf. piano in the desert? it just sounded really wrong


----------



## Stunna (Jan 2, 2016)

TFA's score was serviceable. Nothing special stands out, but it was fine.

I agree that there's been no "Duel of Fates", "Battle of Heroes", or "Across the Stars" so far.


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Jan 2, 2016)

i know, i know. revenge of the sith still had more tracks i still remember from the top of my head to which is why its the only full album i own.

the phantom menace had duel of the fates and anakins theme

attack of the clones had across the stars

hope had the throne room and the sunset/force theme

empire has imperial march, yoda theme,  battle of hoth, cloud city, and asteroid field 

jedi had victory celebration, battle of endor (the luke vs vader/emperor parts) luke and leia and the emperors theme

this one has; torn apart, xwings, march of the resistance,  the starkiller, jedi steps, and the scavenger


----------



## zoro (Jan 2, 2016)

Let's not forget the best of all 


*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]stbYF6XpTYE[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Jan 3, 2016)

a good plot hole: poe vanishes off jakku abandoning BB-8 and the map and his mission


----------



## Stunna (Jan 3, 2016)

that's not what happened tho


----------



## Gilgamesh (Jan 3, 2016)

You know the worst part about this is that it's the start of the Marvelization of Star Wars.


----------



## Stunna (Jan 3, 2016)

whatever that means


----------



## Gilgamesh (Jan 3, 2016)

We don't need Star Wars movies saturating the market like those terrible marvel movies.

Then again TFA had more in common with them and JJTrek than actual Star Wars so it was inevitable.


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Jan 3, 2016)

Stunna said:


> that's not what happened tho



did he mentioned he at least tried searching for BB? how did the resistance find him again?


----------



## Mikaveli (Jan 3, 2016)

Across The Stars


----------



## Mikaveli (Jan 3, 2016)

Gilgamesh said:


> We don't need Star Wars movies saturating the market like those terrible marvel movies.
> 
> Then again TFA had more in common with them and JJTrek than actual Star Wars so it was inevitable.



This is funny because Star Wars is basically the original movie franchise


----------



## Stunna (Jan 3, 2016)

bloodplzkthxlol said:


> did he mentioned he at least tried searching for BB? how did the resistance find him again?


he was ejected from the TIE Fighter when it crashed, and, presumably, by the time he regained consciousness, Finn and Rey had already left Jakku with BB-8 on the Falcon. We know he found some way to reunite with the Resistance, at which point they probably scouted Jakku for BB-8 and the map (obviously to no avail.)

they likely had no clue whether BB-8 escaped Jakku or if it was captured by the First Order until the Resistance ally in Maz's castle reported to them that it and the others had arrived safely, at which point the cavalry flew in guns blazing, with Poe leading the charge



Super Mike said:


> This is funny because Star Wars is basically the original movie franchise


9 James Bond films had come out before A New Hope did


----------



## Lucaniel (Jan 3, 2016)

the original blockbuster franchise


----------



## Mikaveli (Jan 3, 2016)

wat luc said fuck a james bond flick


----------



## Orochibuto (Jan 3, 2016)

Sennin of Hardwork said:


> I think the next trilogy after this one, Episodes X, XI & XII will be set up after a few years of the current one. Finn, Rey and Poe will still appear but we'll be introducing other new characters. Leia , Luke and even Chewbaca might no longer appear. But the droids like C3PO, R2D2 and BB-8 will, these characters are like constant in the saga and at this point immortal, they can't die, etc. They pretty much record all of the events in Star Wars.
> 
> Depending on how the character of Snoke is dealt with and if he's or not Plagueis then we'll see the aftermath of that character in the next trilogy. Personally I would wish that Snoke is in cohoots with Plagueis and after his defeat Plagueis will have no choice but to come out of the shadows and get involved in X, XI & XII.



Is it actually confirmed there will be X, XI and XII?


----------



## BlueDemon (Jan 3, 2016)

Orochibuto said:


> Is it actually confirmed there will be X, XI and XII?



Well, at the pace it's raking in money...you can be sure of it. Hell, they're even making these anthology movies I only learned about yesterday.



Gilgamesh said:


> We don't need Star Wars movies saturating the market like those terrible marvel movies.
> 
> Then again TFA had more in common with them and *JJTrek* than actual Star Wars so it was inevitable.



And again, IIRC I enjoyed the Star Trek re-boot (it can be called that, right?) more than TFA. As a casual, again. Never was much into Star Trek either.

And for the normal folks, the Marvel movies are simply entertaining. I know I liked (most) of them. If you're into the comics, it's probably like with books which are getting adapted, most of the time.


----------



## Atlas (Jan 3, 2016)

bloodplzkthxlol said:


> a good plot hole: poe vanishes off jakku abandoning BB-8 and the map and his mission



I believe Poe was supposed to die on that crash to Jakku but there were revisions to change that.


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 3, 2016)

Disney won't speculate on ten through twelve unless the films continue to make buckets of money, well more specifically if the spin offs make buckets of money.

I feel like that could be very interesting thiugh

Ten to twelve could be set another thirty years in the future with a new cast

Star star's bizarre wars


----------



## Atlas (Jan 3, 2016)

Nighty said:


> Disney won't speculate on ten through twelve unless the films continue to make buckets of money, well more specifically if the spin offs make buckets of money.
> 
> I feel like that could be very interesting thiugh
> 
> ...



Hey, as long as the movies are good, keep going.


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Jan 3, 2016)

Atlas said:


> I believe Poe was supposed to die on that crash to Jakku but there were revisions to change that.



so i've heard but still i dont think they thought out the scene in between through.


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Jan 3, 2016)

> *Star Wars: The Force Awakens Ending Details And More Revealed In Official Screenplay*
> 
> Disney has sent out the Star Wars: The Force Awakens screenplay to members of the Writers Guild of America for awards consideration. The screenplay pretty much reflects the final film, including lines improvised or changed during the filming, and excludes any form of deleted scenes that were most definitely in the shooting script. That said, the descriptions in the screenplay give us some confirmations and clues that you might find interesting.
> 
> ...




*@Bolded:* I knew it from the moment I saw her enraged expression during the fight. Glad that it is confirmed.



Orochibuto said:


> Is it actually confirmed there will be X, XI and XII?



No but there are these that confirm Lucas had intentions to go up to four trilogies:



> When Star Wars VII was first announced, some moviegoers treated the very idea of a new trilogy as sacrilege. But most fans will recall that George Lucas has floated the idea of a third trilogy for years. And some of the really hardcore ones may even be aware that before that, Lucas actually intended to give the world four trilogies in total. It wasn’t until 1979 that he downgraded his ambition to nine films. Empire (via The Playlist) offered that bit of trivia in their recent issue:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, if Episodes VII-IX do well enough, you can bet X, XI, and XII will eventually make it to the theater as well. Who knows — Lucas could end up getting his original 12 films after all.


ROTS

In the same site in other archives back then when the movie was announced it also said somewhere that they could base Episodes X, XI and XII from some script sketches that Lucas had written. Its a matter of looking them up.


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Jan 3, 2016)

> *BOX OFFICE: STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS Sails Past $1.5 Billion Worldwide*
> 
> Following an historic New Year's Day record haul of $88.3 million, Star Wars: The Force Awakens is wrapping up the holidays with $740.3 million in North America, an amount which guarantees that it will pass Avatar's record $760.8 million in a matter of days. It also has the biggest third weekend in history and is showing no signs of slowing down, going so far as to help the North American box office hit a record $11 billion in 2015. After becoming the fastest title to hit the $700 million mark in jut 16.5 days, J.J. Abrams' movie has decimated the record held by Avatar as it took that movie 72 days to get there. Overseas, Star Wars: The Force Awakens made $96.3 million over the weekend for a total of $770.5 million. It passed Avengers: Age of Ultron's worldwide cume yesterday and will sail past Furious 7 and The Avengers tomorrow. With the movie opening in China later this month, we'll have a better idea of how close it will come to Avatar's worldwide haul of $2.7 billion by the end of January, but analysts still belive it will top that movie. Do you guys think it will make it?


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 3, 2016)

I was partially confused about Anakin/Lukes lightsaber colors 


in AotC Anakin first uses a blue saber, then it gets destroyed in that Geonosis factory, then during the actual arena fight and later vs Dooku he wields a green one

then he makes a new - blue one (this seems to be the one in TFA) and uses it in TCW and RotS until he loses it to Obi-Wan on Mustafar

Obi-Wan keeps it and gives it to Luke who uses it until Vader disarms him and it falls down in Cloud City (and then it shows up in TFA)

Luke makes himself a green one for RotJ


so Anakins color is blue, same as Obi-Wan, Luke first uses a blue because it was given to him, but his own later in RotJ is green, same as Yodas





also apparently Phasma returns for ep 8, so she probably survived


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 3, 2016)

I feel like lightsaber colour is pretty meaningless aside from maybe barely red = sith


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 3, 2016)

not canon


----------



## Lucaniel (Jan 3, 2016)

> Orange = Used for negotiation Users: Yaddle, and… Plo-Koon again? Jesus…
> Gold = Very high skilled Users: Q – Ron
> Bronze = Rare and used for strong jedi Users: Lobacca
> Silver = Calm Users: Korren Horn and 1 other
> White = light source Users: Imperial Knights



fucking kill yourself


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 3, 2016)

>bronze

I want a bronze lightsaber


----------



## Lucaniel (Jan 3, 2016)

Nighty said:


> >bronze
> 
> I want a bronze lightsaber



3rd place mentality


----------



## Vault (Jan 3, 2016)

Who wrote that garbage


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 3, 2016)

nah bronze is just a cool colour tbh

are there gold lightsabers?

can I get a platinum one?


----------



## Lucaniel (Jan 3, 2016)

Vault said:


> Who wrote that garbage



i got a double whammy of laughter out of this bullshit because i expected flutter to link to some wookiepedia level tl;dr of unnecessary details for what colours represented how many things 

and it was just so simplistic and still stupid


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 3, 2016)

so did you guys like Kylo Ren as a villain ? y/n ?


----------



## Mikaveli (Jan 3, 2016)

The script stuff is cool, but a lot of that didn't come across on screen


----------



## strongarm85 (Jan 3, 2016)

Kylo Ren is great. He isn't Darth Vader, and he doesn't need to be, but he wants to be. He wants to be Vader so bad.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 3, 2016)

I was rather surprised how powerful and emotional the Han Solo death scene felt even though I was spoiled on it already


his mask and robo voice were also pretty cool



looking forward to the new and improved "training complete" Kylo


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 3, 2016)

technobabble time 



> The weapon ran on a type of dark energy called "quintessence", which was ubiquitous in the universe, and offered a practically unlimited power source to the First Order. Using a star as a power source, an array of collectors on one side of the planet would gather dark energy in stages, redirecting it to the planetary core, where it was held in place by the natural magnetic field of the planet, as well as an artificial containment field maintained by the machinery the First Order had installed within the crust. As the planetary magnetic field would not be enough to contain the amount of energy that the weapon required, a thermal oscillator[2] was built into the planet. It generated an oscillating containment field which allowed the installation to expend considerably less energy at containing the dark energy than would be required using a steady containment field. A colossal hollow cylinder, large enough to dominate the view of the planet from orbit, penetrated the containment field to a predetermined distance, in order to direct the blast towards its target, and also to absorb its energy, which would otherwise cause catastrophic groundquakes. This design made the weapon vulnerable when it was fully charged, as the destruction of the containment field oscillator the moment before the weapon fired would release the accumulated energy not through the firing cylinder, but throughout the planetary core where it was being held, leading to the gradual collapse of the surface into the core.[6]
> 
> Starkiller Base was mobile.[3] In order to be used, it consumed a star before moving on to another.[7] As Starkiller Base was charged through the power of stars, it gradually blocked out sunlight until, running at full capacity, it extinguished it completely, leaving the surface in darkness. In order for the weapon to fire, its weapons engineers would induce a breach in the containment field, allowing the collected dark energy to escape the core through the hollow cylinder opening on the antipodes of the planet relative to the stellar collector. During this process, the dark energy transformed to a state known as "phantom energy", and left the planet behind, tearing a hole through hyperspace along a perfectly linear path. The people stationed at the Base called the dimension through which the phantom energy beam traveled "sub-hyperspace", and this method of delivering the payload was near-instantaneous across vast distances. The rotation and inclination of the planet had to be taken into account for the weapon to target something, and also the lack of obstacles between it and the target, as the phantom energy beam would only be intercepted by an object of sufficient mass (like a planet). When the phantom energy struck a planet, the interaction produced enough heat to ignite the planet's core, creating a pocket nova. *The spacetime disruption caused by the phantom energy's passage would make the nova instantaneously visible thousands of light years away.*


----------



## zoro (Jan 3, 2016)

I like Kylo with the mask on and when everything goes according to his plan. Feels really threatening

When he throws fits of rage like an angsty teen not so much. But angsty teen is what they went for so props to them 


Still, Han's death scene felt totally lackluster to me but I already knew about it so that might be why


----------



## Stunna (Jan 3, 2016)

The only thing I didn't really care for during Han's death scene was the setting.

I liked how Kylo's decision to kill his father happened simultaneously with the sun going out (which Poe earlier referred to as "the light".)


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 3, 2016)

I wasn't impacted by Han's death at all


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Jan 3, 2016)

I don't like kylo, he comes off as weak and corny to me. But he has potential to grow on me with  future installments.


----------



## Pocalypse (Jan 3, 2016)

Kylo's more intimidating with the mask on, was disappointed he took of his mask so early, that aura just went away for me. He looked like a young Snape 

But the fact that he's still a noob at being a Sith, he's got me hooked to see how strong he grows and whether he will surpass his granddaddy or not.


----------



## sworder (Jan 3, 2016)

I like Kylo a lot, far more than Rey. very glad he's not your typical super powerful, one-dimensional villain. anyway got these off amazon's preview of the visual guide




there's a few more


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Jan 3, 2016)

Nighty said:


> I wasn't impacted by Han's death at all



Maybe if they eased up on the "Han's walking to his death" vibes it would have.


----------



## Stunna (Jan 3, 2016)

I really liked Kylo Ren. I'm excited to see how he develops.

I'm hoping he gets to a point where he stops hiding behind his mask. And that Driver actually sells him being intimidating without it.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Jan 3, 2016)

Since rey is already quite experienced with staff fighting, it would be cool if she builds a dual lightsaber for herself-- or maybe she can use two blades-- or maybe she can use a staff that can be separated into two blades.


----------



## Lucaniel (Jan 3, 2016)

nah fuck dat gimmick

single-blade fencing is cooler


----------



## sworder (Jan 3, 2016)

Lucaniel said:


> nah fuck dat gimmick
> 
> single-blade fencing is cooler


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Jan 3, 2016)

gimmick?

Why restrict FS to only one type of saber?


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Jan 3, 2016)

I liked how it seems to be confirmed that not only was Kylo Ren physically handicapped after killing his father (via Chewie's crossbow) but also emotionally, which definitely helps justify him not just losing to Rey but even getting TOUCHED by Finn in their duels. 

He was looking for closure after killing his father but it seems like he's even more troubled now. The Sith training Snoke has in mind for him will probably not only to help his skillset but his mentality now as well. Snoke was probably holding back in how much he was teaching him because he wasn't keen on going all-in with his investment in Ren yet since he still had temptations from the Light.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Jan 3, 2016)

>Kylo Ren is the most gifted apprentice of supreme leader Snoke

Does that mean he's possibly not the only one?


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 3, 2016)

> . Snoke was probably holding back in how much he was teaching him because he wasn't keen on going all-in with his investment in Ren yet since he still had temptations from the Light.


I concur


after Benny boy killed his Dad, Snoke decided that Kylo earned the rest of his training


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## sworder (Jan 3, 2016)

Rey will probably get a double bladed lightsaber imo

And she should because they are badass as hell, hopefully yellow for that throwback Bastila look


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## Stunna (Jan 3, 2016)

I want to see Ren go after Leia to finish the job.


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## martryn (Jan 3, 2016)

I want Rey to use a double pike saber instead.  A modified staff.  So it's a staff most of the time, but when shit hits the fan, she's got a short light saber blade from one or both ends.


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## Atlas (Jan 3, 2016)

sworder said:


> Rey will probably get a double bladed lightsaber imo
> 
> And she should because they are badass as hell, hopefully yellow for that throwback Bastila look



Yes, please. Honestly, it seems like they are heavily implying she will get a double saber by having her use a staff. Would be fucking stupid if she doesn't get a double saber.


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## Lucaniel (Jan 3, 2016)

~Gesy~ said:


> gimmick?
> 
> Why restrict FS to only one type of saber?



i don't know what fs is

but it ain't restricted already

cuz we got the crossguard saber


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## Lucaniel (Jan 3, 2016)

sworder said:


>



is this supposed to convince me to do anything besides definitely never watch whatever that's from

this is the sort of thing george lucas would jizz himself over


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 3, 2016)

Lucaniel said:


> i don't know what fs is
> 
> but it ain't restricted already
> 
> cuz we got the crossguard saber



but.. the crossgaurd is just a minor variation of the single blade. It's still used the same way .

Fencing is cool and all, but I appreciate differing fighting styles and techniques. But to each their own..


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## zoro (Jan 3, 2016)

Lucaniel said:


> this is the sort of thing george lucas would jizz himself over



You mean jazz?


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## sworder (Jan 3, 2016)

Lucaniel said:


> is this supposed to convince me to do anything besides definitely never watch whatever that's from
> 
> this is the sort of thing george lucas would jizz himself over



nah, your post just reminded me of seeing that the other day

how the hell is one supposed to fight with 2 of those things


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## Stunna (Jan 3, 2016)

you can't bring back a double-edged lightsaber without bringing back the prequel choreography too, guys

gotta choose


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## Lucaniel (Jan 3, 2016)

anyone who says they liked the prequels choreography needs to go watch obi wan and anakin vs dooku again

and

[youtube]J0mUVY9fLlw[/youtube]


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 3, 2016)

Stunna said:


> you can't bring back a double-edged lightsaber without bringing back the prequel choreography too, guys
> 
> gotta choose





Meh- maybe you can..


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## Reznor (Jan 3, 2016)

This thread is now closed it has a continuation thread *Here*


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