# Characters that can beat Gerard Valkyrie



## Rev97 (Dec 8, 2021)

Title of the thread. Name characters that can beat Gerard in a fight.

Only rule is they have to legitimately be able to beat him while the Miracle is active, he’s already a giant, and bloodlusted. So characters with the right power but lacking the stats to pull it off for example dont cut it.

And be creative too in the ways to beat him. So don’t just list down a random omnipotent that erases him with a wave of their hand.

Discuss.


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## accountmaker (Dec 8, 2021)

Kamijou Touma
Asuna
Asta
Don't be salty OP. Humoring bleach stans is beneath you


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## J★J♥ (Dec 8, 2021)

Reality warpers that are stronger than Juha only.


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 8, 2021)

basically every Bionicle character

even literally wall level characters in Bionicle can do it via BFR with the right equipment due to the fact that everyone in Bionicle is massively faster than Bleach is

and yes they got characters that wash Yhwach too

Reactions: Creative 1 | MAXIMUM 1


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## Irradiance (Dec 8, 2021)

Hatou Manabu via time paradoxing him.... or replacing him in history and hence becoming him.
Saiki Kazu via giving himself a Gerard doesn't regenerate power.
Noah via conceptual freezing.
Toujou Karuna by freezing him in time or stealing his abilities or summoning the goddesses who can negate regeneration/immortality.
Kumoko via outlasting with energy absorption... and potentially powernull. Or BFR of course.
D via that or law manip.
Vandalieu via mind hax.
Betrayed Expectations Jord via ability reversal.


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## thegoldenboy2188 (Dec 8, 2021)

Misogi Kumogawa from Medaka Box can erase Gerard from existence.

Kamen Rider Black RX probably has some sort of bullshit that can defeat him.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Jugo13 (Dec 9, 2021)

Tian- From Feng Shen Ji. His Divine Power: Monochrome is a forcefield that nullify/ suppress other abilities by more than half and deplete the vitality of living things. In verse, he permanently destroyed the physical body of the Immortal Phoenix, despite it's immortality and regeneration. He's the God of the verse that has other characters/entities that gives Bleach a run for its money when it comes to busted abilities.

DBZ/Super: Most named characters from Saiyan Saga to current.

Tower of God: Phantaminum, Enryu, Administrators,  Zahard, Urek Mazino, and potentially the 10 family leaders and others in the top 20-60 of high rankers.

Noblesse: Raizel(main character) with blood manipulation/telekinesis  and maybe EOS Frankenstein and his Dark Spear that disrupts regenerative abilities and absorb them to be make himself more powerful.

The God of High School- I'm not up to date with the series, but I've heard that it has characters are above continental level.


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## accountmaker (Dec 9, 2021)

^Tgoh try solar system level. And a bunch of hax. Pandora could literally take away Gerards power


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## Linvel (Dec 9, 2021)

Would Law be able to win?


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## Steven (Dec 9, 2021)

Yhwack


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 9, 2021)

Yhwach
Some fate characters who negate concept


Those are the only ones. The only ones that I know. I would imagine some more in other verses? Who knows.
Gerard is overpowered bro!!!! Heart of the Soul King solos verses like nothing.


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## J★J♥ (Dec 9, 2021)

Linvel said:


> Would Law be able to win?


Maybe if he shambles his heart out


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## Adamant soul (Dec 9, 2021)

Ignoring the NLF and how anyone stronger than any Bleach verse character can do it, let's focus on those who can counter the Miracle anyway.

Get some Digimon in here.

*Piedmon (Adventure) - *Turns him into a key chain, The Miracle has no feats against transmutation.

*Cherubimon (Adventure 02) -* Reality Warper who can both dimension dump and de-age Gerard, reversing any progress The Miracle made and literally de-aging him into nothing. 

*Bagramon (Xros Wars) - *His right arm straight up erases the souls of the shit he hits with it, good luck coming back from that.

And we mustn't forget the Ponies.  

*Princess Twilight Sparkle - *Stone Sleep spell equals one giant ass stone statue.

*Starlight Glimmer - *Mindfuck

*Trixie Lulamoon w/Alicorn Amulet - *Age spells can turn him into a baby, GG.

Like ultimately there's a LOT more characters who CAN beat Gerard than those who can't.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Optimistic 1


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## JayDox (Dec 9, 2021)

Nardo uses magnet style rasengan. GER negs him.

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1 | Optimistic 2


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## kayz (Dec 9, 2021)

A character with any not able of each;

Time shenanigans
Mind fuckery
Reality Warping
High-level BFR
Causality manipulation
Existence Erasure
fate manipulation

Reactions: Like 1 | Neutral 1


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Dec 9, 2021)

weakest characters I can think of is asta 

weakest dc out character I can think of Is charles xavier


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 9, 2021)

kayz said:


> Time shenanigans
> Mind fuckery
> Reality Warping
> High-level BFR
> ...



Only the 2 latter are accurate. The other 5 are false.


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## Rev97 (Dec 9, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> Only the 2 latter are accurate. The other 5 are false.


Proof that Gerard counter Time powers, Mind control, and Reality Warping?

Causality Manipulation doesn’t work yet Fate does? One who controls causality basically decides the fate of anything


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 9, 2021)

Rev97 said:


> Proof that Gerard counter Time powers, Mind control, and Reality Warping?
> 
> Causality Manipulation doesn’t work yet Fate does? One who controls causality basically decides the fate of anything



*Time manipulation:* Gerard is immortal , as the Heart of the Soul King he is Millions of years old. Read CFYOW
*Mind Control: *Is irrelevant due to the Miracle , at most you will argue that Gerard will be hypnotized but the Miracle never cease.
*Reality Warping: *You need to define it , cause most of them are useless


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## Rev97 (Dec 9, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> *Time manipulation:* Gerard is immortal , as the Heart of the Soul King he is Millions of years old. Read CFYOW
> *Mind Control: *Is irrelevant due to the Miracle , at most you will argue that Gerard will be hypnotized but the Miracle never cease.
> *Reality Warping: *You need to define it , cause most of them are useless


But nothing says about going back in time to when he was just an organ of the Soul King or even before the Soul King himself was born.

Citation for Miracle countering mind control

Hence why it’s just as ridiculous to say all forms of Reality Warping won’t work on Gerard too


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 9, 2021)

you can easily just go back in time and kill him with time travel, or nope him out of reality with it if it's advanced enough

reality warping would definitely work

Giorno Giovanna can neg the miracle easily

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 9, 2021)

Rev97 said:


> But nothing says about going back in time to when he was just an organ of the Soul King or even before the Soul King himself was born.
> 
> Citation for Miracle countering mind control
> 
> Hence why it’s just as ridiculous to say all forms of Reality Warping don’t work on Gerard too



We don't know what Gerard was ''before he was born'' so we can't assume the outcome
Citation for mind control countering Miracle to kick in or permanently defeating Gerard based on mind control?
I never said all reality warpings , I am asking which ones you think can


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## atlasoffduty (Dec 9, 2021)

Magi EOS Hugo

Magi EOS Sinbad

Magi EOS David

Magi Solomon Post Sacred Place

Any EOS magi character that has access to and the knowledge to manipulate sacred place and hierarchies all neg diff without issue

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Rev97 (Dec 9, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> We don't know what Gerard was ''before he was born'' so we can't assume the outcome
> Citation for mind control countering Miracle to kick in or permanently defeating Gerard based on mind control?
> I never said all reality warpings , I am asking which ones you think can


We do know, he was the heart of the Soul King that became his own being after Soul King was dismembered just like his right and left arms.

So A) go back in time to when he was still a disembodied heart and get rid of it or B) set things up to where Soul King never comes into existence.

Don’t answer my question with a question bro. That’s just deflecting. You made the claim that Mind Control won’t work on Gerard, now prove it.

You just said Reality Warping beating Gerard is false and never elaborated any further than that.


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 9, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> *Time manipulation:* Gerard is immortal , as the Heart of the Soul King he is Millions of years old. Read CFYOW


You do realize that Time Manipulation is actually a versatile ability which can branch out in multiple sub categories right ?

For example, someone with TM would be able to freeze him in time for eternity .
Or BFR him in a different timeline/ past/future etc.
Or, going back in history and murder his pregnant mother.
Etc



Xelioszzapporro said:


> *Mind Control: *Is irrelevant due to the Miracle , at most you will argue that Gerard will be hypnotized but the Miracle never cease.


Bruh.. any mid tier telepath in fiction would shatter his mind so bad that he'd wish he was never born .



Xelioszzapporro said:


> *Reality Warping: *You need to define it , cause most of them are useless


Just a few examples.

Existence negation
Paradox creation
Ability negation/manipulation 
Universal and above resetting

Stop being dumb .


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 9, 2021)

Rev97 said:


> We do know, he was the heart of the Soul King that became his own being after Soul King was dismembered just like his right and left arms.
> 
> So A) go back in time to when he was still a disembodied heart and get rid of it or B) set things up to where Soul King never comes into existence.
> 
> ...



Yeah and I am saying we don't know what and if he had a weakness back then , you just assuming.
If you prove that mind control can counter the Miracle then I will prove the vice verse
Because I was referring to the reality warping that I am aware , and from what I am aware it's not enough to beat Gerard.

If you think some reality warping can beat Gerard , then mention it cause I am looking forward to see your opinion.


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## thegoldenboy2188 (Dec 9, 2021)

Original VN Shiki Tohno could kill him. Gerard thinks he's a normal human and let's his guard down, Shiki takes off his glasses and Gerard suddenly feels killing intent when Shiki stabs his POD or justs cuts him into pieces.


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## Rev97 (Dec 9, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> Yeah and I am saying we don't know what and if he had a weakness back then , you just assuming.
> If you prove that mind control can counter the Miracle then I will prove the vice verse
> Because I was referring to the reality warping that I am aware , and from what I am aware it's not enough to beat Gerard.
> 
> If you think some reality warping can beat Gerard , then mention it cause I am looking forward to see your opinion.


Or just go back in time to before Soul King ever existed and prevent that from happening. No Soul King = No Gerard 

So in other words, you don’t have any evidence of Miracle countering someone making him a vegetable by controlling his mind basically?


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 9, 2021)

TYPE-Rey said:


> You do realize that Time Manipulation is actually a versatile ability which can branch out in multiple sub categories right ?
> 
> For example, someone with TM would be able to freeze him in time for eternity .
> Or BFR him in a different timeline/ past/future etc.
> ...



Okay so you say that if they freeze him from all eternity , fine. But that will end in stalemate , right?
Same with BFR
We don't know if Gerard has a mother but I get your point



TYPE-Rey said:


> Bruh.. any mid tier telepath in fiction would shatter his mind so bad that he'd wish he was never born .



Can you elaborate ?



TYPE-Rey said:


> Just a few examples.
> 
> Existence negation
> Paradox creation
> ...



Uuuummm I already mention that existence erasure is enough to kill him.
I can agree to the ability negation also
What do you mean by Paradox creation and Universal and above resetting ??



TYPE-Rey said:


> Stop being dumb .



We are humans. Just because somebody is unaware of fictions like anime. Doesn't mean his intelligence is low.
Simply because it has nothing to do with it in the first place.

TEACH ME!!! I want to learn. I COULD be wrong , since I am human.


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 9, 2021)

Rev97 said:


> So in other words, you don’t have any evidence of Miracle countering someone making him a vegetable by controlling his mind basically?



Do you have any evidence that method will kill Gerard ???
Or do you consider stalemate or making him vegetable a victory ??


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## atlasoffduty (Dec 9, 2021)

Dreams of Tommorow said:


> weakest characters I can think of is asta
> 
> weakest dc out character I can think of Is charles xavier


asta? is that because you are assuming his anti magic works on him?


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## Rev97 (Dec 9, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> Do you have any evidence that method will kill Gerard ???
> Or do you consider stalemate or making him vegetable a victory ??


The latter. Hence why I said beat and not kill for the thread


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 9, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> Okay so you say that if they freeze him from all eternity , fine. But that will end in stalemate , right?


No it wouldn't unless the condition of the fight would be to literally kill your opponent, otherwise, you debilitated your opponent,he can't fight back, it's your win.



Xelioszzapporro said:


> Same with BFR


Same as above.



Xelioszzapporro said:


> elaborate


What do you mean elaborate ?

Any decent telepath can inflict a thousand different thoughts, illusions,nightmare loops that would make him a drooling vegetable.
Or just shut down his mind completely .Or make him commit seppuku for eternity.



Xelioszzapporro said:


> What do you mean by Paradox creation


I mean a situation where he can become a living paradox and being yeeted out of existence by history or the timeline itself.

If you don't know what a Paradox is, google it.


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## SSBMonado (Dec 9, 2021)

Remember when Kenpachi split Gerard down the middle, a quincy cross appeared between the two halves and pulled them back together? 
I've always thought that that cross was the soul king's heart, and that before Kubo's plans for Bleach's ending got fucked silly, Gerard was going to get defeated by the captains destroying enough of his body to reveal the heart again and either destroying or sealing it. 

Anyhow, how about Monado II Shulk? He doesn't become "omnipotent" until he gets Monado III, so he should count  
Cast Monado Purge. Now the Miracle isn't a thing any more, so Gerard either collapses and dies under his own weight or gets Kenpachi'd again by Monado Buster


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 9, 2021)

Rev97 said:


> The latter. Hence why I said beat and not kill for the thread





TYPE-Rey said:


> No it wouldn't unless the condition of the fight would be to literally kill your opponent, otherwise, you debilitated your opponent,he can't fight back, it's your win.
> 
> 
> Same as above.
> ...



Well if you guys consider BFR a victory or turning him into vegetable permanently. Then that's okay I guess. In my opinion I think the enemy needs to permanently die. But okay whatever I see where you coming from.

Reactions: Creative 2


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## BossKitten (Dec 9, 2021)

accountmaker said:


> Kamijou Touma
> Asuna
> Asta
> Don't be salty OP. Humoring bleach stans is beneath you



Would Asta's abilities work on a "miracle"? 

I have:

Tenchi, Ryoko, and anyone else with access to a light hawk wing
Bach (obviously)
DMS Kakashi (should be able to wrap him away)
Most of the Dragon Ball cast could just throw him into space
The Monk might be able to rewrite his powers, so 50/50
And reality wrappers that are beyond what we've seen in Bleach


On a side note, Orihime theoretically should be able to reject his miracles, the bookmark guy should be able to make it so that the miracle never happened, and Hash should be able to count the miracles as good fortune and kill him too. But these are all in ideal situations.


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## accountmaker (Dec 9, 2021)

BossKitten said:


> Would Asta's abilities work on a "miracle"?
> 
> I have:
> 
> ...


Sure. it's Reishi based, and we equalize reishi with magic power


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## accountmaker (Dec 9, 2021)

This is hilarious btw. Xel is one of the best trolls in this section

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Steven (Dec 9, 2021)

Pre-TS Neji hardstomps

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## BossKitten (Dec 9, 2021)

accountmaker said:


> Sure. it's Reishi based, and we equalize reishi with magic power



What does current Asta scale to?


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## accountmaker (Dec 9, 2021)

BossKitten said:


> What does current Asta scale to?


easily ftl, and his swords cancel magic


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## BossKitten (Dec 9, 2021)

accountmaker said:


> easily ftl, and his swords cancel magic



I mean attack power and durability.


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## accountmaker (Dec 9, 2021)

BossKitten said:


> I mean attack power and durability.


Beats me, but those are irrelevant in this scenario


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## BossKitten (Dec 9, 2021)

accountmaker said:


> Beats me, but those are irrelevant in this scenario



How so? 

Also, Hitsugaya's ice cancels abilities and the miricale worked around it. So does Asta have any feats against magic that resisted magic canceling?


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## accountmaker (Dec 9, 2021)

BossKitten said:


> How so?
> 
> Also, Hitsugaya's ice cancels abilities and the miricale worked around it. So does Asta have any feats against magic that resisted magic canceling?


Because Asta blitzes and one shots with his magic cancelling abilities. It's hax, his DC is irrelevant, and durability even more so cause Gerard can't touch him. Since when does Hitsugaya's Ice cancel shit? What has his ice cancelled? Asta's anti-magic cancelling has worked on everything from basic magic to demons themselves. Hell if anything Gerard is even more vulnerable due to being a supernatural entity among literal spirits.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## BossKitten (Dec 9, 2021)

accountmaker said:


> Because Asta blitzes and one shots with his magic cancelling abilities. It's hax, his DC is irrelevant, and durability even more so cause Gerard can't touch him. Since when does Hitsugaya's Ice cancel shit? What has his ice cancelled? Asta's anti-magic cancelling has worked on everything from basic magic to demons themselves. Hell if anything Gerard is even more vulnerable due to being a supernatural entity among literal spirits.



Adult Hitsugaya's ice cancels abilities, which is why he was able to cut Thor's sword in half without any blowblack. And canceling magic doesn't nullify durability like your making it sound.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## accountmaker (Dec 9, 2021)

BossKitten said:


> Adult Hitsugaya's ice cancels abilities, which is why he was able to cut Thor's sword in half without any blowblack. And canceling magic doesn't nullify durability like your making it sound.


In this case yes it does because Gerard is a pure supernatural entity; the heart of the SK. He gets erased


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## majin12 (Dec 9, 2021)

Jessica sorrow just unbelieves him out of existence


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## BossKitten (Dec 10, 2021)

accountmaker said:


> In this case yes it does because Gerard is a pure supernatural entity; the heart of the SK. He gets erased



So Asta one shots all gods and devils now?

And according to you, there is no limit to the amount of power Asta can negate, correct? Even against someone that ability canceling powers didn’t work against?

Please make that make sense.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## accountmaker (Dec 10, 2021)

BossKitten said:


> So Asta one shots all gods and devils now?
> 
> And according to you, there is no limit to the amount of power Asta can negate, correct? Even against someone that ability canceling powers didn’t work against?
> 
> Please make that make sense.


Cool strawman, bro. Burden of proof is on you to prove that Gerard can resist anti-magic. Histsugaya's ice hasn't shown the ability to cut through reishi itself, so Gerard breaking out of it is moot. Unless you have something more specific than overpowering Thor's sword


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Dec 10, 2021)

BossKitten said:


> How so?
> 
> Also, Hitsugaya's ice cancels abilities and the miricale worked around it. So does Asta have any feats against magic that resisted magic canceling?


asta can cut through and nullify conceptual magic, miracle won't be an issue


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## BossKitten (Dec 10, 2021)

accountmaker said:


> Cool strawman, bro. Burden of proof is on you to prove that Gerard can resist anti-magic. Histsugaya's ice hasn't shown the ability to cut through reishi itself, so Gerard breaking out of it is moot. Unless you have something more specific than overpowering Thor's sword


Nah, burden of proof is on the one pushing a no limits fallacy.



Dreams of Tommorow said:


> asta can cut through and nullify conceptual magic, miracle won't be an issue


What feat was this?


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## Keishin (Dec 10, 2021)

What if he cant be beaten.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Jugo13 (Dec 10, 2021)

kayz said:


> A character with any not able of each;
> 
> Time shenanigans
> Mind fuckery
> ...


Solid list

With that said,
Within his own verse obviously Yhwach negates the Miracle. Haschwalth and Uryu should be able to counter it, since their schrifts revolves around event/fate reversal and one of them is a counter to even the Almighty. Ichibei is another one. Canonically, Yamamoto is more powerful, though it's sort of dependable of how much area(post-Miracle Gerard is a giant after all) he can cover in one-shot.

From Feng Shen Ji, besides Tian, arguably Zhen Chan can bind or BFR Gerard if he's unable to kill him. He can do this by encasing him in  illusionary worlds living out countless cycles of rebirths based on Gerard's desires. If that doesn't work, then he can entrap him in the pocket universe of sin, being inflicted with any damage he's done to others in his lifetime.


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## accountmaker (Dec 10, 2021)

BossKitten said:


> Nah, burden of proof is on the one pushing a no limits fallacy.


No one's pushing a nlf. You're the one strawmaning and saying Gerard can tank anti magic


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## accountmaker (Dec 10, 2021)

Keishin said:


> What if he cant be beaten.


Shut the fuck up, man.


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## BossKitten (Dec 10, 2021)

accountmaker said:


> No one's pushing a nlf. You're the one strawmaning and saying Gerard can tank anti magic



Look over our conversation.

1) I asked if you think Asta could cancel the miracle ability. You then claimed that he could do to us equating reishi and magic.

2) I then asked if Asta has ever canceled an equal amount of magic power. You said it doesn't matter.

3) I pointed out that Adult Hitsugaya's ice has the ability to negate abilities and that "miracle" worked around it. This lead to me asking if Asta ever negated someone's abilities that was able to work around ability negation... once again, you pretended it didn't matter.

4) Then I asked if Asta could one-shot gods and devils now, and you avoided the question completely.

You're assuming that Asta could do things in this fight that he's never shown to be able to do based upon your response.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## WhiskeyThan (Dec 10, 2021)

Yeah, Gerard’s best feat is being encased in hax negating ice (which stopped a sword that reflected damage from functioning) and then being killed and falling into pieces.

Simple “muh anti-magic” for Asta isn’t enough. He was anti-haxed and smashed to pieces by Small Continent AP fighters.

Can Asta even swing that hard?

Reactions: Agree 4


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## thegoldenboy2188 (Dec 10, 2021)

Lightspeed Asta has been debunked already over on SB, there’s only like 1-3 feats/statement that make characters in BC lightspeed and their all debunked by the 8 second timer during the fight with Dante.

Also Touma Kamijou might not actually be able to erase Gerard. While it’s true that Touma may able to nullify the Miracle and his sword it might not work on Gerard himself.

Because Touma can’t actually nullify Leylines or mana from the earth despite being able to nullify magic. There’s also how while it hasn’t been tried I think he may not be able to destroy ghosts or Kazakiri.

Since Gerard isn’t a magical construct but a soul. While Touma might be able to nullify his Schrift but not Gerard himself.

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 10, 2021)

thegoldenboy2188 said:


> Lightspeed Asta has been debunked already over on SB,


1. Nobody gives a shit about what Space Bottles think or does.
2. If you want to debunk something that is already accepted here, you  make a thread in the Meta Dome about it and present your arguments. Based upon that, it will either get accepted or shut down .
3. You don't derail the conversation in the thread.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## thegoldenboy2188 (Dec 10, 2021)

TYPE-Rey said:


> 1. Nobody gives a shit about what Space Bottles think or does.
> 2. If you want to debunk something that is already accepted here, you make a thread in the Meta Dome about it and present your arguments. Based upon that, it will either get accepted or shut down .
> 3. You don't derail the conversation in the thread.


1. Alright
2. Eh, they aren’t my arguments, just arguments from people who actually watched BC and are probably smarter than me.

3. I didn’t derail the thread though? I also talked about how Touma might not actually be able to erase Gerard.


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## Rev97 (Dec 10, 2021)

thegoldenboy2188 said:


> Lightspeed Asta has been debunked already over on SB, there’s only like 1-3 feats/statement that make characters in BC lightspeed and their all debunked by the 8 second timer during the fight with Dante.
> 
> Also Touma Kamijou might not actually be able to erase Gerard. While it’s true that Touma may able to nullify the Miracle and his sword it might not work on Gerard himself.
> 
> ...


He can’t nullify things that are in their natural order, but for the leylines thing, Imagine Breaker does work by passively negating any alterations done to them.



> "Compared to Radiosonde Castle, that is nothing more than a sub spell. How much energy do you think it takes to make a mass that huge float like that? Well, it's certainly not something you can pull off with gas turbines," Birdway said smoothly. "Let's get back to the topic at hand. In order to follow Imagine Breaker, 'they' have interfered with the system of the leylines running through this planet. Imagine Breaker destroys that energy, and their mark is automatically created in the process of the repairing cycle. It's like a potato or a jewel. Using that, Radiosonde Castle can accurately follow Imagine Breaker no matter where in the world he flees. Do you understand that much?"



Since Gerard reforms his entire body with his supernatural power, Imagine Breaker will either negate his existence like his does with angels created by God or at the very least revert him back to his normal self.

Even than, Touma also has his Dragons and Invisible. A single Dragon is so powerful it feeds on the energy of solar system-sized black holes in space with ease and Invisible Thing obliterated Coronzon recently.

Reactions: Like 1


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 10, 2021)

thegoldenboy2188 said:


> 3. I didn’t derail the thread though? I also talked about how Touma might not actually be able to erase Gerard.


I didn't say you did. I meant it as a guideline.

Reactions: Like 1


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## thegoldenboy2188 (Dec 10, 2021)

Rev97 said:


> He can’t nullify things that are in their natural order, but for the leylines thing, Imagine Breaker does work by passively negating any alterations done to them.


That’s what I mean, I’m unsure but I heard that Touma can’t actually negate ghosts or souls since there natural. So he shouldn’t be able to actually erase Gerard cause he’s a soul.

But…



Rev97 said:


> Since Gerard reforms his entire body with his supernatural power, Imagine Breaker will either negate his existence like his does with angels created by God or at the very least revert him back to his normal self.


Yeah he should still be able to negate the Miracle and Hoffnung as i said. He even might be able to return Gerand back into the heart of the Soul King.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Commander Shunsui (Dec 10, 2021)

There are quite a few digimon that can thoroughly trash Gerard. Adamant knows this better than me honestly.

But let's stick with my favorites from my favorite series. Megaman Battle Network and Starforce. You have Megaman(both versions),Bass Protoman(Blues), Roll, Serenade,Alpha, Gospel, Gregar, Falzar, Duo, Nebula, etc. The list goes on and this is only from the games since I haven't finished the manga yet

Reactions: Like 2


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## Adamant soul (Dec 10, 2021)

Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> There are quite a few digimon that can thoroughly trash Gerard. Adamant knows this better than me honestly.


"Quite a few" is an understatement, basically every Perfect or Ultimate Tier Digimon worth mentioning can kill or otherwise incapacitate this Thor wannabe.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## BossKitten (Dec 10, 2021)

Adamant soul said:


> "Quite a few" in an understatement, basically every Perfect or Ultimate Tier Digimon worth mentioning can kill or otherwise incapacitate this Thor wannabe.



Thor wants to be like Gerard but isn't blessed enough.

Reactions: Like 2 | Optimistic 2


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Dec 10, 2021)

BossKitten said:


> Nah, burden of proof is on the one pushing a no limits fallacy.
> 
> 
> What feat was this?


last fight, devils were freezing concepts and lighting them on fire, astas anti magic had no issue with them


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## atlasoffduty (Dec 10, 2021)

@Keishin why do you think Hugo can't just trap him in his own universe somewhere fighting himself

edit: after looking back at magi I completely fail to see how Hugo doesn't just wave his hand and put Gerard in some universe of his choice. The guy is a literal steward of his multiverses and can swap hierarchies between gods/universes


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## Top59 (Dec 10, 2021)

TYPE-Rey said:


> Bruh.. any mid tier telepath in fiction would shatter his mind so bad that he'd wish he was never born .


What is a mid tier telepath here?

Darth Vader (Disney)?

Or a random Psyker (W40k)?


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 10, 2021)

Top59 said:


> What is a mid tier telepath here?
> 
> Darth Vader (Disney)?
> 
> Or a random Psyker (W40k)?


this guy 


who is also folding Gerard in half

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Top59 (Dec 10, 2021)

OtherGalaxy said:


> this guy
> 
> 
> who is also folding Gerard in half


what are his telepathic feats?


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 10, 2021)

Top59 said:


> what are his telepathic feats?


had an entire army hyponotized, said army was 1/6 of what dominated the entire world back in the day

that should be pretty mid level for telepathy feats, but more than enough for Gerard


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## Top59 (Dec 10, 2021)

OtherGalaxy said:


> had an entire army hyponotized, said army was 1/6 of what dominated the entire world back in the day


So he control many millions beings?


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## Steven (Dec 10, 2021)

Adamant soul said:


> "Quite a few" is an understatement, basically every Perfect or Ultimate Tier Digimon worth mentioning can kill or otherwise incapacitate this Thor wannabe.


Apocalymon turns him into Data or deletes the Miracle lol

Still the best "Holy shit whats that for a Digimon" moment.Sadly,the fight was totaly rushed and boring.Piedmon felt like the far bigger threat


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## Adamant soul (Dec 10, 2021)

Ziggy said:


> Apocalymon turns him into Data or deletes the Miracle lol
> 
> Still the best "Holy shit whats that for a Digimon" moment.Sadly,the fight was totaly rushed and boring.Piedmon felt like the far bigger threat


I mean the fight was one move, Apocalymon had won. If it takes blatant PIS to kill you, I don't see how Piedmon felt like a bigger threat. 

Especially when Piedmon got smacked legit like a bitch by HolyAngemon who straight up could have soloed him.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 10, 2021)

Id punches this fool out of the universe or just handwaves his ass into nothing

Reactions: Winner 1


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## SoulOfCinder (Dec 10, 2021)

Can he beat Goku?

No, he can't beat Goku

Reactions: Agree 1


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## BossKitten (Dec 10, 2021)

Dreams of Tommorow said:


> last fight, devils were freezing concepts and lighting them on fire, astas anti magic had no issue with them



I don't know the feat, and while it sounds impressive, the issue still comes down to scale. Adult Hitsugaya's ice negates abilities, like Asta's blades negate magic. The difference here is that Hitsugaya's abilities works on a small continental level, if not much more considering the difference in his power vs. Shikai Zaraki. That means the amount of power Hitsugaya negated is far more than anything Asta has neggated, unless there is an update that I'm missing. 

In conclusion, if Gerard's miracle ability worked around an ability that can nullify small continental amounts of power, there is no reason to believe that Asta can do anything here if he's only canceled out around a town's worth of magic.


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 10, 2021)

BossKitten said:


> The difference here is that Hitsugaya's abilities works on a small continental level, if not much more considering the difference in his power vs. Shikai Zaraki. That means the amount of power Hitsugaya negated is far more than anything Asta has neggated, unless there is an update that I'm missing.


Your'e mixing apples and oranges here.

It doesn't matter what Gerrard's standing here is regarding his overall DC / Durability. All that matters is if he has resistance to the kind of Haxx asta can dish out.

I also don't know the feat in question since i don't read BC, but if the feat is as straightforward and accurate as that, then conceptual shenaningans>> anything that Hitsugaya can do and also something that Gerrard hasn't really shown resistance to.

Of course, it very much depends on how the ability in question works


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## Commander Shunsui (Dec 10, 2021)

SoulOfCinder said:


> Can he beat Goku?
> 
> No, he can't beat Goku



Also Majin Buu turns him into Candy, Dabora spits on him, Imperfect Cell absorbs him before he gets too big. Let's not forget the amount of fighters that can just throw him into space.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Commander Shunsui (Dec 10, 2021)

Adding on to the list you have Zatch bell characters: Zatch, Zeno, Brago, Kanchome and Clear would completely annihilate Gerard


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## Voyeur (Dec 10, 2021)

Your mum.


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## Steven (Dec 10, 2021)

Adamant soul said:


> I mean the fight was one move, Apocalymon had won. If it takes blatant PIS to kill you, I don't see how Piedmon felt like a bigger threat.
> 
> Especially when Piedmon got smacked legit like a bitch by HolyAngemon who straight up could have soloed him.


Still not a fan of MagnaAngemon,a Ultralevel yeeting a Megalevel digimon in physical strength away

Im fine with his Door.That shit even overpowered Blackwargreymon


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## Adamant soul (Dec 10, 2021)

Ziggy said:


> Still not a fan of MagnaAngemon,a Ultralevel yeeting a Megalevel digimon in physical strength away


Why not? Levels have never been the end all be all in Digimon and Angemon was OP that entire season.

Hell ANGEMON put Piedmon on his ass in CQC duel and forced the clown to knock Angemon's own attack back at him to get him off.
Of course HolyAngemon was gonna murk him when he barely beat Angemon.  


Ziggy said:


> Im fine with his Door.That shit even overpowered Blackwargreymon


EVENTUALLY and BlackWarGreymon could have killed HolyAngemon anyway but chose to aim at the stone instead.

He was even holding HolyAngemon's sword with his palms but that's just BlackWarGreymon being a beast and the 02 powercreep at work.


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## BossKitten (Dec 10, 2021)

TYPE-Rey said:


> Your'e mixing apples and oranges here.
> 
> It doesn't matter what Gerrard's standing here is regarding his overall DC / Durability. All that matters is if he has resistance to the kind of Haxx asta can dish out.
> 
> ...



Regardless of if were talking about Asta or Hitsugaya, their ability to negate is the same. If were using the equivalency law, then magic = ki = reiatsu, etc. Then Thor would possess a certain amount of magical energy that Asta has never had to deal with. If we assume his blade can cancel out any amount of energy, then that means he can also cancel a Kamahamaha from Goku, which is silly.

Also, there is nothing to support the idea that Asta's negating abilities are higher, when he's never had to negate anything close to the amount of energy Hitsugaya had to negate.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 10, 2021)

BossKitten said:


> Regardless of if were talking about Asta or Hitsugaya, their ability to negate is the same.


Not really since if Asta really negated a concept or multiple concepts, then his ability is higher tiered than Hitsugaya's and the rest of your argument falls flat on its face for the reasons i have already listed.


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 10, 2021)

nullifying a concept=/=nullifying an amount of energy

Reactions: Agree 1


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## BossKitten (Dec 10, 2021)

TYPE-Rey said:


> Not really since if Asta really negated a concept or multiple concepts, then his ability is higher tiered than Hitsugaya's and the rest of your argument falls flat on its face for the reasons i have already listed.



We'll have to see the feat and go from there. 

Also, what's the overall assumption being made here on your part? Is it that he could stop the "miracle" from activating, destroy Gerard with a single attack; etc?


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## Animeace (Dec 10, 2021)

BossKitten said:


> Tenchi, Ryoko, and anyone else with access to a light hawk wing


Not sure about ryoko but Z has destroyed galaxies. He easily showed his feats when he blew a chunk out of the earth and moon and he sent Tenchi flying from earth to sautrn in a matter of seconds instantly which is faster than light.
(At its average distance of 1.4 billion km, light takes one hour 20 minutes and 15 seconds to reach Saturn from Earth.}
but even these feats dont matter because Tenchi Masaki is litteraly a god now we are way passed light hawk wings.  In the third ova when tenchi shed his mortal body he ripped the fabric of time and space if not for the counter measure he would have caused the collapse of the entire universe. Washu, Tsunami, and tokimi later reset the damage to universe and rewound time and took Z's soul and reincarnated it into another timeline/universe (They also are just as broken and could easily win. I mean they litterally creat all the universe and ppl in it.They have that subspace outsitde of existance . This was shown when they where keeping the universe from collapsing. They where in a blank void and where holding that little ball which basically was all of creation it's self.) . As of the 5th ova tenchi has complete control over all his powers and is even more broken in the novels.

Reactions: Like 1


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## BossKitten (Dec 10, 2021)

Animeace said:


> Not sure about ryoko but Z has destroyed galaxies. He easily showed his feats when he blew a chunk out of the earth and moon and he sent Tenchi flying from earth to sautrn in a matter of seconds instantly which is faster than light.
> (At its average distance of 1.4 billion km, light takes one hour 20 minutes and 15 seconds to reach Saturn from Earth.}
> but even these feats dont matter because Tenchi Masaki is litteraly a god now we are way passed light hawk wings.  In the third ova when tenchi shed his mortal body he ripped the fabric of time and space if not for the counter measure he would have caused the collapse of the entire universe. Washu, Tsunami, and tokimi later reset the damage to universe and rewound time and took Z's soul and reincarnated it into another timeline/universe (They also are just as broken and could easily win. I mean they litterally creat all the universe and ppl in it.They have that subspace outsitde of existance thats not reachable by anyone) . As of the 5th ova tenchi has complete control over all his powers and is even more broken in the novels.



Si, which is why they'd all easily win this, lol. 

What novels though????

Reactions: Like 1


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 10, 2021)

tenchi is probably in the top 5 strongest anime at this point lol

bleach getting btfo'd

Reactions: Like 2


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## Animeace (Dec 10, 2021)

BossKitten said:


> Si, which is why they'd all easily win this, lol.
> 
> What novels though????


They actually just released 2 novel officially in english you can get on . There are a lot more untranslated tho but you can get the info from  The useless tenchi website they have been fan translating parts the novel and doujinshi for years most of the content is on there forums. There's lots of interviews by the creator and a lot of data information they pull from the tenchi muyo gxp novels which has never been official released anywhere outside japan. It's the go to place for anything tenchi related there much more knowledgbale .

Reactions: Like 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Dec 10, 2021)

Anyone who hits harder than what Gerard is shown to survive and heal from

We really back to Bleach NLF nonsense?

As for characters in his realm of power, good example of someone with a possible wincon would be Kakashi or MS Obito

They can just BFR the dude into Kamuis sealed dimension and thats it, miracle cant even activate 

Iirc Gerard has no BFR res

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 2


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## Top59 (Dec 10, 2021)

WorldsStrongest said:


> They can just BFR the dude into Kamuis sealed dimension and thats it, miracle cant even activate
> 
> Iirc Gerard has no BFR res


The shadow


It is the equivalent of the Garganta of the Quincy.

At least for normal dimensions should work.


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## AgentAAA (Dec 10, 2021)

Top59 said:


> So he control many millions beings?


Bionicle universe is relatively low in numbers but still at least hundreds of thousands going off the size of the league of six kingdoms' armies.

Reactions: Like 2


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## GregSteve (Dec 11, 2021)

Project Arms high tiers and above, Kekkaishi top tiers, 95% of Marvel and DC, Eden Zero top tiers, Transformers, @OtherGalaxy , GER, Ben 10, 666 Satan top tiers, She Ra, Voltron ect lots of characters

Reactions: Funny 1


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 11, 2021)

technically even a character like the Green Baby from JoJo, a literal baby, can at least stalemate Gerard

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Dec 11, 2021)

BossKitten said:


> I don't know the feat, and while it sounds impressive, the issue still comes down to scale. Adult Hitsugaya's ice negates abilities, like Asta's blades negate magic. The difference here is that Hitsugaya's abilities works on a small continental level, if not much more considering the difference in his power vs. Shikai Zaraki. That means the amount of power Hitsugaya negated is far more than anything Asta has neggated, unless there is an update that I'm missing.
> 
> In conclusion, if Gerard's miracle ability worked around an ability that can nullify small continental amounts of power, there is no reason to believe that Asta can do anything here if he's only canceled out around a town's worth of magic.


asta can nullify reincarnation magic, it's not the same as hitsu's.

more force doesn't mean an ability Is more potent


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## Piecesis (Dec 11, 2021)

OtherGalaxy said:


> this guy
> 
> 
> who is also folding Gerard in half


Imagine losing to a leggo


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## Daio (Dec 11, 2021)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Anyone who hits harder than what Gerard is shown to survive and heal from
> 
> We really back to Bleach NLF nonsense?
> 
> ...


That makes no sense. It doesn't matter how hard you hit someone if they can regenerate from reishi in the environment without a body.

I doubt BFR is going to work either, lol. Quincy can travel from dimension to dimension.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Commander Shunsui (Dec 11, 2021)

Daio said:


> That makes no sense. It doesn't matter how hard you hit someone if they can regenerate from reishi in the environment without a body.
> 
> I doubt BFR is going to work either, lol. Quincy can travel from dimension to dimension.


So do you believe Gerard will come back from attacks that completely vaporize him?


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## Keishin (Dec 11, 2021)

Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> So do you believe Gerard will come back from attacks that completely vaporize him?


his power is to get stronger from damage so yes.


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 11, 2021)

Piecesis said:


> Imagine losing to a leggo


I made a Gerard vs Bionicle thread and we cane to the conclusion that even the wall level characters could beat him with the proper equipment because everyone in the verse has a massive speed advantage.

Not even getting into the fact that Legos actually have multiple characters that solo the HST in general

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Commander Shunsui (Dec 11, 2021)

Keishin said:


> his power is to get stronger from damage so yes.


Ah so you think Goku cannot defeat Gerard?


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## Divell (Dec 11, 2021)

Linvel said:


> Would Law be able to win?


Law doest harm him, he just separates him.


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## BossKitten (Dec 11, 2021)

Animeace said:


> They actually just released 2 novel officially in english you can get on . There are a lot more untranslated tho but you can get the info from  The useless tenchi website they have been fan translating parts the novel and doujinshi for years most of the content is on there forums. There's lots of interviews by the creator and a lot of data information they pull from the tenchi muyo gxp novels which has never been official released anywhere outside japan. It's the go to place for anything tenchi related there much more knowledgbale .



That sounds awesome! 



Dreams of Tommorow said:


> asta can nullify reincarnation magic, it's not the same as hitsu's.
> 
> more force doesn't mean an ability Is more potent



I'm not talking about simply having more force. I'm talking about more overall power being contained within said haxxx/person. Thor's sword is not pure force, it's main purpose is haxxx, and can reflect damage on a small continental level; not through energy blast being shot back, not through any visual attacks flying back at you, simply haxxx. 

Hitstugaya negated a haxxx ability that has been proven to have a certain amount of "magic" power contained within it. Also, once again, miracle worked around negation. Could it be negated by someone still? Sure, I'm sure that the person who negates it will need more power than the source of the "miracle".

Am I tripping @Sablés ?


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Dec 11, 2021)

BossKitten said:


> That sounds awesome!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not sure what you're not understanding

asta can nullify reincarnation magic, magic that brings souls back from the dead into physical bodies that can use mana

gerard is not the source of his power, it was granted to him. miracle will get nullified from bringing him back the moment astas blades pierce him

hax does not operate on the same spectrum as force yet you keep trying to apply it here and I don't know why

Reactions: Like 1


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## Daio (Dec 11, 2021)

Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> So do you believe Gerard will come back from attacks that completely vaporize him?


Yes. Erasing his body is not enough to kill him.


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## Commander Shunsui (Dec 11, 2021)

Daio said:


> Yes. Erasing his body is not enough to kill him.


Why not? It's never fully happened and saying that it can't is what people mean by NLF


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## BossKitten (Dec 11, 2021)

Dreams of Tommorow said:


> I'm not sure what you're not understanding
> 
> asta can nullify reincarnation magic, magic that brings souls back from the dead into physical bodies that can use mana
> 
> ...



As I said earlier in the thread, I'm trying to see what the Asta supporters overall conclusion is. 

Can Asta stop miracle's resurrection powers? Maybe.

But can Asta kill Thor in the first place? That's what I've been trying to get you guys to answer.


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## Daio (Dec 11, 2021)

Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> Why not? It's never fully happened


Because he's regenerated without a body.


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## Commander Shunsui (Dec 11, 2021)

Daio said:


> Because he's regenerated without a body.


Nope he still had his legs present on his final transformation


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## Daio (Dec 11, 2021)

Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> Nope he still had his legs present on his final transformation


He didn't use them to regenerate. His body was frozen to the core and scattered to pieces.


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## Commander Shunsui (Dec 11, 2021)

Daio said:


> He didn't use them to regenerate. His body was frozen to the core and scattered to pieces.


Ok so my point is we haven't seen him come back from nothing right? So why are we assuming he can when there's always been something?


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## Commander Shunsui (Dec 11, 2021)

Yhwach absorbed him into nothing and he didn't come back


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Dec 11, 2021)

BossKitten said:


> As I said earlier in the thread, I'm trying to see what the Asta supporters overall conclusion is.
> 
> Can Asta stop miracle's resurrection powers? Maybe.
> 
> But can Asta kill Thor in the first place? That's what I've been trying to get you guys to answer.


there is no maybe, it will

there isn't a precedent for miracle overcoming an ability that can nullify reincarnation/resurrection and hitsu ability is not a substitute to prove it will

he's faster by a wide margin and gerard is made of reishi, I doubt he'll have much trouble

does gerard have any abilities that can cover the distance asta can escape from ?


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## Daio (Dec 11, 2021)

Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> Ok so my point is we haven't seen him come back from nothing right? So why are we assuming he can when there's always been something?


We've seen him completely reform his body using reishi from the atmosphere while his original body was essentially ice. So, destroying his body isn't going to do anything.


Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> Yhwach absorbed him into nothing and he didn't come back


No. Yhwach used Auswhalen to steal his power and life, as it does to all Quincy.


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## Commander Shunsui (Dec 11, 2021)

Daio said:


> We've seen him completely reform his body using reishi from the atmosphere while his original body was essentially ice. So, destroying his body isn't going to do anything.


So what I'm getting here is you think he can keep getting infinitely stronger?


Daio said:


> No. Yhwach used Auswhalen to steal his power and life, as it does to all Quincy.


And it's already been shown that Quincy can survive that process they just lose their VS.


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## WhiskeyThan (Dec 11, 2021)

Dreams of Tommorow said:


> there is no maybe, it will
> 
> there isn't a precedent for miracle overcoming an ability that can nullify reincarnation/resurrection and hitsu ability is not a substitute to prove it will
> 
> ...


Not being funny like, Hitsugaya's ice specifically disables hax. He had his head blow up inside of hax de-activating ice and Miracle still activated.

I think this is the point being made.

Not only that, Gerard has Country Level AP/Dura at Minimum in base, going on up to Small Continent+ in Giant Forms.


Dunno if this is outta date, but he can be FTL all he wants, Town+ characters cannot even activate Miracle, because he cannot kill Gerard I imagine. Not even scratch him. Anti-magic got dura neg feats, or that sword is cutting nothing?

Edit: Giant form Gerard can knock out Country Level characters with his breath lmao

Reactions: Like 2


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## Daio (Dec 11, 2021)

Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> So what I'm getting here is you think he can keep getting infinitely stronger?
> 
> And it's already been shown that Quincy can survive that process they just lose their VS.


That doesn't have anything to do with what I just said - but under the right circumstances, sure.

Ok? Auswhalen is consistently inconsistent in how it works. We know that it CAN steal a Quincy's power and/or life, which is what it did to Gerard.

What does the above have to do with the fact Gerard doesn't need a body to regenerate/reform/revive himself?


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## BossKitten (Dec 11, 2021)

Dreams of Tommorow said:


> there is no maybe, it will
> 
> there isn't a precedent for miracle overcoming an ability that can nullify reincarnation/resurrection and hitsu ability is not a substitute to prove it will
> 
> ...



None of Gerard's abilities should be able to activate in the ice. Miracle activates despite Thor's ability to access his abilities. So until Asta negates an ability that works around ability negation, it's a maybe. 

All Thor has to do is outlast Asta. Eventually he'll slow down and get killed. Even if you want to assume Thor is made up completely of reishi, you're going back to the argument of the amount of energy/magic/ki/chakra that Asta can cancel with his attacks.

 Also, if you count being a god against Gerard, that goes back to my question, is Asta one-shotting gods and devil's now? Because that goes way beyond this match.


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## Commander Shunsui (Dec 11, 2021)

Daio said:


> That doesn't have anything to do with what I just said - but under the right circumstances, sure.


That's what makes it a NLF.


Daio said:


> Ok? Auswhalen is consistently inconsistent in how it works. We know that it CAN steal a Quincy's power and/or life, which is what it did to Gerard.
> 
> What does the above have to do with the fact Gerard doesn't need a body to regenerate/reform/revive himself?


He didn't have a body and didn't regenerate is the point


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## Steven (Dec 11, 2021)

FH Zeref still haxstomps Nazi Thor


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## BossKitten (Dec 11, 2021)

Ziggy said:


> FH Zeref still haxstomps Nazi Thor



Not seeing how hax Zeref is, is one of my regrets of dropping FT.


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## Daio (Dec 11, 2021)

Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> That's what makes it a NLF.
> 
> He didn't have a body and didn't regenerate is the point


No it doesn't. There's ways to overcome the Miracle in theory, destroying just his body/soul is not one of them. 

This whole NLF thing is nonsensical as well because absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence.

Bro. He didn't come back to life because Yhwach absorbed his entire being.


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## Rev97 (Dec 11, 2021)

BossKitten said:


> Not seeing how hax Zeref is, is one of my regrets of dropping FT.


Time rewinding both on himself to undo his death including being vaporized as well as the timeline itself to go back in time and infinite magic reserves thanks to Fairy Heart to do the mentioned as much as he wants, topped with his previous stuff like death magic potent enough to even work on Acnologia-level God Dragons as shown in 100 Year Quest, time stop, and immortality.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Jugo13 (Dec 11, 2021)

Daio said:


> We've seen him completely reform his body using reishi from the atmosphere while his original body was essentially ice. So, destroying his body isn't going to do anything.
> 
> No. Yhwach used Auswhalen to steal his power and life, as it does to all Quincy.


The reishi he reformed from reconnected to his frozen legs.


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 11, 2021)

Daio said:


> This whole NLF thing is nonsensical as well because absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence.


No, it makes perfect sense in the context of this hobby.

Many a shitstorm has been avoided because of this concept.

The principle only doesn't make sense whenever someone selectively decides that their favored characters/series shouldn't be held to the same standard since that would hinder their overall standing.

And entirely unsurprising , it's mostly Belch fans who bitch and moan about it these days since Kubo can't be arsed to display an ability properly.

Not our fault, i'm afraid, but hey , if you wanna go ahead and claim that a character can infitinetly punch upwards cause their ability hasn't shown a definitive limit, go ahead, cause this is where this type of mentality leads and at the end of the day, we need someone to laugh at.


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## Jugo13 (Dec 11, 2021)

WhiskeyThan said:


> Not being funny like, Hitsugaya's ice specifically disables hax. He had his head blow up inside of hax de-activating ice and Miracle still activated.
> 
> I think this is the point being made.
> 
> ...


How is it that Gerard has country level/small continent+ AP/Dura? Seireitei being country-size is a contradiction given Wandenreich existed in the same space and is shown to be city-size, used to reconstruct royal palaces into a star-cross.


Called a town

Reactions: Optimistic 2


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## Commander Shunsui (Dec 11, 2021)

Daio said:


> No it doesn't. There's ways to overcome the Miracle in theory, destroying just his body/soul is not one of them.
> 
> This whole NLF thing is nonsensical as well because absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence.


But you're using that same logic to say that he can come back from anything under the right circumstances


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## Daio (Dec 11, 2021)

Jugo13 said:


> The reishi he reformed from reconnected to his frozen legs.


It didn't. That doesn't even make sense. His legs would break under his own weight if that was the case. You're also implying he remade a whole body, except his legs, that were frozen and useless like the rest of his body?



Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> But you're using that same logic to say that he can come back from anything under the right circumstances


No. I didn't elaborate on "under the right circumstances" but that doesn't mean any or every circumstance. His ability is conceptual and works independently from him though, so it's hard to deal with by design.


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## Xadlin (Dec 11, 2021)

Trixie with Alicorn Amulet
Shes one of the weakest in MLP, of all the magic users but can turn gerard into a banana



What do you say @Adamant soul ?

Weakest from friendship souls that can beat him?

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Commander Shunsui (Dec 11, 2021)

Daio said:


> No. I didn't elaborate on "under the right circumstances" but that doesn't mean any or every circumstance. His ability is conceptual and works independently from him though, so it's hard to deal with by design.


I gave an example. I mentioned complete erasure


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## Daio (Dec 11, 2021)

TYPE-Rey said:


> No, it makes perfect sense in the context of this hobby.
> 
> Many a shitstorm has been avoided because of this concept.
> 
> ...


Yeah, cool. Literally, abscense of evidence doesn't mean evidence of absence. Ever thought that maybe a lot of authors intend for the abilities they design to be limitless in nature, within the context of their series'? Especially when we're talking about abstract abilities/hax.

How do you interpret literally omnipotent characters with this NLF idea?

I'm not saying that *"a character can infitinetly punch upwards cause their ability hasn't shown a definitive limit". *I'm saying we usually don't know but it's also case by case. Why would you assume a limit for something that implies otherwise? 

If they haven't shown to be limitless (which is impossible to show) and they haven't shown to have a limit - neither case is more valid than the other.


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## Jugo13 (Dec 11, 2021)

Daio said:


> It didn't. That doesn't even make sense. His legs would break under his own weight if that was the case. You're also implying he remade a whole body, except his legs, that were frozen and useless like the rest of his body?


The panel shows him reforming reishi on top of the frozen legs


He could have freed his frozen legs(becoming reishi as well)after reforming a new and stronger body. But he doesn't even stand on his feet anymore for the rest of the fight.


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## WhiskeyThan (Dec 11, 2021)

Gotta take all issues with the scaling up with the calc section @Jugo13 

Wandenreich was equal in size etc and it was all brought up. The reasons Gerard is Small Continent is because of his feats vs Shikai Unpatched Zaraki, easily blocking a blade that smashes that  meteor and getting stronger the more damage he receives, he outpaced Zaraki and gets the scaling.


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## Adamant soul (Dec 11, 2021)

Xadlin said:


> Trixie with Alicorn Amulet
> Shes one of the weakest in MLP, of all the magic users but can turn gerard into a banana


Beat you to her dude.  


Adamant soul said:


> *Trixie Lulamoon w/Alicorn Amulet - *Age spells can turn him into a baby, GG.


Although I was thinking age spells but transmutation works too. 


Xadlin said:


> What do you say @Adamant soul ?
> 
> Weakest from friendship souls that can beat him?


I'd say Mastered Fullbring/Kind Bodhisattva Fluttershy through mind-fuck. 
MVP would literally talk him into submission.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Daio (Dec 11, 2021)

Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> I gave an example. I mentioned complete erasure


If it's erasure of the body and/or soul it's not enough to put him down. 



Jugo13 said:


> The panel shows him reforming a reishi body on top of the frozen legs
> 
> 
> He could have freed his frozen legs after reforming a new and stronger body. But he doesn't even stand on his feet anymore for the rest of the fight.


Ayiyiyi. If you look again you can see that:

- The entire surface at the top of his frozen legs are visible.

- He's reforming further in the background compared to where his frozen legs are.


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 11, 2021)

Daio said:


> Yeah, cool. Literally, abscense of evidence doesn't mean evidence of absence.


Nice parroting .




Daio said:


> Ever thought that maybe a lot of authors intend for the abilities they design to be limitless in nature, within the context of their series'?


That's conjecture and largely irrelevant since a lot of the times, their intent is contradicted by their depictions .

Besides, it doesn't matter how it's meant to function in the context of its own series since outside of it, it will inevitably run against another outside ability that functions in a completely different way and  that said author didn't take into account when creating his .



Daio said:


> How do you interpret literally omnipotent characters with this NLF idea?


There are no literally omnipotent characters in fiction.

You're a moron if you believe such a thing.



Daio said:


> I'm not saying that *"a character can infitinetly punch upwards cause their ability hasn't shown a definitive limit"*


And i'm not saying you are, at least, not in in this context.
I'm just pointing out where this kind of mentality leads.



Daio said:


> Why would you assume a limit for something that implies otherwise?


Because that's not how this hobby works. We don't work with implications.

It works on concrete evidence, which is why we limit ourselves to the evidence we have on hand.

It's a concession to keep things consistent and to protect ourselves from "Itachi genjutsus Galactus" types of arguments.





Daio said:


> If they haven't shown to be limitless (which is impossible to show)


Then how do you ascertain that they are supposed to be limitless ?

Author intent ? Which is vague at the best of times ? One of the most subjective things and easy things to twist around to fit a particular narative.

Nah, ain't gonna fly.


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## Commander Shunsui (Dec 11, 2021)

Daio said:


> If it's erasure of the body and/or soul it's not enough to put him down.


That's a NLF. He hasn't experienced an attack like that to claim he'd survive it.

Also he wasn't even completely destroyed from the team attack on him


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## Daio (Dec 11, 2021)

TYPE-Rey said:


> Nice parroting .


Because it's true and needed to be said again.


TYPE-Rey said:


> That's conjecture and largely irrelevant since a lot of the times, their intent is contradicted by their depictions .


It's not meant to be an assertion. I'm just pointing out the real possibility. Most of this conversation hinges on possibility. And in cases where it's not contradicted by their depictions?


TYPE-Rey said:


> Besides, it doesn't matter how it's meant to function in the context of its own series since outside of it, it will inevitably run against another outside ability that functions in a completely different way and  that said author didn't take into account when creating his .


What I mean by "in context of it's own series" is that, for example, there's levels to infinity and means different things in different series'. So, a character may have "infinite power" but in the context of their verse that's 4D Universe level and doesn't mean they're 10 dimensional or omnipotent or whatever.


TYPE-Rey said:


> There are no literally omnipotent characters in fiction.
> 
> You're a moron if you believe such a thing.


Why not?


TYPE-Rey said:


> And i'm not saying you are, at least, not in in this context.
> I'm just pointing out where this kind of mentality leads.


Yeah and I get it but you're using a fallacy to refute another fallacy.


TYPE-Rey said:


> Because that's not how this hobby works. We don't work with implications.
> 
> It works on concrete evidence, which is why we limit ourselves to the evidence we have on hand.


Which isn't necessarily objective. It's called being safe.


TYPE-Rey said:


> It's a concession to keep things consistent and to protect ourselves from "Itachi genjutsus Galactus" types of arguments.


I mean is Genjutsu stated to work on anybody? Does Galactus have resistance to abilities similar to Genjutsu? Maybe a bad example but I don't see how someone could arrive at the conclusion that Genjutsu has no limits. I digress; this is hardly relevant.


TYPE-Rey said:


> Then how do you ascertain that they are supposed to be limitless ?
> 
> Author intent ? Which is vague at the best of times ? One of the most subjective things and easy things to twist around to fit a particular narative.
> 
> Nah, ain't gonna fly.


It depends on how you define "limitless". 

I understand why the idea of "NLF" is in place but it isn't objective.


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## Daio (Dec 11, 2021)

Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> That's a NLF. He hasn't experienced an attack like that to claim he'd survive it.


NLF being a flawed idea aside, this isn't black and white. In this context, what does existence erasure do? Erase the body from existence. Does Gerard need a body to reform? No. So, would existence erasure affect his ability to reform (something common in Bleach btw)? No.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Commander Shunsui (Dec 11, 2021)

Daio said:


> this context, what does existence erasure do? Erase the body from existence.


A Kamehameha 


Daio said:


> Does Gerrard need a body to reform?


Yes. There's never been a point where his body was completely destroyed. 


Daio said:


> So, would existence erasure affect his ability to reform (something common in Bleach btw)?


Common where? Maybe with hollows being destroyed by both Quincy and shinigami.


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## Daio (Dec 11, 2021)

Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> A Kamehameha


???


Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> Yes. There's never been a point where his body was completely destroyed.


Yet there's been a point where he regenerated without it.


Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> Common where? Maybe with hollows being destroyed by both Quincy and shinigami.


Quincy casually erase Hollows from existence. There's a possibility that a mid tier Hado has existent erasure but I'm not too sure on the source for that.


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## Commander Shunsui (Dec 11, 2021)

Daio said:


> ??


A Kamehameha from Goku will erase his existence 


Daio said:


> Yet there's been a point where he regenerated without


His body after dealing with Toshiro's attack crumbled which means he still had pieces of his body in tact.


Daio said:


> Quincy casually erase Hollows from existence. There's a possibility that a mid tier Hado has existent erasure but I'm not too sure on the source for that.


So do your research on it before bringing it up?

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 11, 2021)

Daio said:


> Because it's true and needed to be said again.


It's true, but at the same time, if you're using this as an argument, you also need to admit that you're also resorting to arguing from ignorance which , if you draw the line, is a wash.



Daio said:


> It's not meant to be an assertion. I'm just pointing out the real possibility. Most of this conversation hinges on possibility.


Again, this hobby doesn't work on assertions or possibilities.



Daio said:


> And in cases where it's not contradicted by their depictions?


It's conjecture.
Simple as.



Daio said:


> What I mean by "in context of it's own series" is that, for example, there's levels to infinity and means different things in different series'. So, a character may have "infinite power" but in the context of their verse that's 4D Universe level and doesn't mean they're 10 dimensional or omnipotent or whatever.


Which is not relevant to your original point which alluded to the fact that we need to look at authorial intent and how something is supposed to work inverse.

What you said here actually is actually an exemplification of my argument,albeit an incomplete one, so thanks, i guess ?



Daio said:


> Why not?


Because they simply don't exist.



Daio said:


> Yeah and I get it but you're using a fallacy to refute another fallacy.


There's nothing fallacious about limiting yourself at working with the information that you have at hand.

Even if it was, it's literally the best we have.

All the pissed off stans that are crying about it haven't been able to come up with something better, so ...there you go.



Daio said:


> Which isn't necessarily objective. It's called being safe.


It is the most objective in this context.
And also being safe , yes,



Daio said:


> I mean is Genjutsu stated to work on anybody? Does Galactus have resistance to abilities similar to Genjutsu? Maybe a bad example but I don't see how someone could arrive at the conclusion that Genjutsu has no limits. I digress; this is hardly relevant.


Then you obviously haven't been around long enough to see.



Daio said:


> It depends on how you define "limitless".


Answer my question.



Daio said:


> I understand why the idea of "NLF" is in place but it isn't objective.


Already addressed this.


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 11, 2021)

Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> A Kamehameha from Goku will erase his existence



It doesn't matter how many more joules you will put in an attack. 
Has Gerard regenerated from the Atmposhere in order to create a new body by gathering Reishi? YES.
His remaining body parts (legs in that case) are irrelevant because he created a body despite his very body got extinct.

So you can delete him physically all you want to (Kamehameha) , he will come back.


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 11, 2021)

TYPE-Rey said:


> if you're using this as an argument, you also need to admit that you're also resorting to arguing from ignorance which , if you draw the line, is a wash.



Can you give some examples about the argument of ignorance?? Because I am not sure if you know what that means.
We said this to me also. Even though we simply said that the NFL is a fallacy.



TYPE-Rey said:


> There are no literally omnipotent characters in fiction.



I heard that The One Above All is omnipotent. Is it true?


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 11, 2021)

Jugo13 said:


> He could have freed his frozen legs



Either that or he simply created new legs from gathering reishi from the atmposhere. 
Keep in mind that the only reason those legs didn't fall apart just like the rest of the body is because legs are in the bottom and hold the body.


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## Commander Shunsui (Dec 11, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> So you can delete him physically all you want to (Kamehameha) , he will come back.


A Kamehameha isn't physical so no he won't.


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 11, 2021)

> Nibba literally says "good point" when i called out his bullshit.
>Now i don't know the meaning of what i said.

Jesus fucking christ, the absolute state of the OBD.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Old 1


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## Daio (Dec 11, 2021)

TYPE-Rey said:


> It's true, but at the same time, if you're using this as an argument, you also need to admit that you're also resorting to arguing from ignorance which , if you draw the line, is a wash.


As I said, neither side is more valid than the other.


TYPE-Rey said:


> Again, this hobby doesn't work on assertions or possibilities.


You're missing the point.


TYPE-Rey said:


> It's conjecture.
> Simple as.


Is it not conjecture to state an ability has arbitrary limits despite its limitless nature not being contradicted?


TYPE-Rey said:


> Which is not relevant to your original point which alluded to the fact that we need to look at authorial intent and how something is supposed to work inverse.


No. You misunderstood what I was saying. I simply asked you a question based on a possibility (author intent) and the "in-verse" part was in regards to what you've agreed with down below.


TYPE-Rey said:


> What you said here actually is actually an exemplification of my argument,albeit an incomplete one, so thanks, i guess ?


Yeah mate we don't disagree on all that much.


TYPE-Rey said:


> Because they simply don't exist.


I digress because I don't want to derail. Pretty bold claim though.


TYPE-Rey said:


> There's nothing fallacious about limiting yourself at working with the information that you have at hand.


It is when you act like that's a matter of fact and ridicule people for the same logic you use. If there's no evidence for either you cannot state one or the other as a fact.


TYPE-Rey said:


> Even if it was, it's literally the best we have.
> 
> All the pissed off stans that are crying about it haven't been able to come up with something better, so ...there you go.


I think the idea of NLF could work if it was used correctly.


TYPE-Rey said:


> It is the most objective in this context.
> And also being safe , yes,


It's either objective or it's not. It's not objective, it's a safe lowball. 


TYPE-Rey said:


> Then you obviously haven't been around long enough to see.


I probably have seen it but my comment is more in regards to the logic.


TYPE-Rey said:


> Answer my question.


As I said, it depends on what you define "limitless" as. As I've implied, limitless can mean different things in different fictions.


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 11, 2021)

Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> A Kamehameha isn't physical so no he won't.



It is? It strikes in a physical way.
Also what about a punch.


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## Daio (Dec 11, 2021)

Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> A Kamehameha from Goku will erase his existence


And it will amount to making Gerard stronger.


Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> His body after dealing with Toshiro's attack crumbled which means he still had pieces of his body in tact.


Yes, we know this. His frozen body wasn't used to reform sir.


Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> So do your research on it before bringing it up?


I gave you a concrete example of existence erasure in Bleach already. Relax mate.


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## Commander Shunsui (Dec 11, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> It is? It strikes in a physical way.
> Also what about a punch.


A Kamehameha is physical??? It's ki(energy).

You tell me in what world is Gerard not getting punched into the stratosphere by anybody from DBZ that's worth a mention


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 11, 2021)

TYPE-Rey said:


> > Nibba literally says "good point" when i called out his bullshit.
> >Now i don't know the meaning of what i said.
> 
> Jesus fucking christ, the absolute state of the OBD.



Bro are you generally okay ?? You are soooooo delusional and you always like to make jokes even though I asked you a question.

In the previous thread you just MENTIONED the argument of ignorance because it was relevant. And hence I said you made a good point. But as the debate continues here I feel like you don't get what that even means. So give some examples?


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## Commander Shunsui (Dec 11, 2021)

Daio said:


> And it will amount to making Gerard stronger.


No.


Daio said:


> Yes, we know this. His frozen body wasn't used to reform sir.


We know it reformed from his body which wasn't destroyed completely. Which is my point.


Daio said:


> I gave you a concrete example of existence erasure in Bleach already. Relax mate.


You gave me how a hollows existence is completely erased. Which I agreed to but explain how that applies to Gerard in any way


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 11, 2021)

Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> A Kamehameha is physical??? It's ki(energy).
> 
> You tell me in what world is Gerard not getting punched into the stratosphere by anybody from DBZ that's worth a mention



Well Ki is physical at the end of the day. Since they physical strikes are enhanced by ki?
So which opponents from DBZ you think Gerard loses ???

In my opinion the dude solos the verse. I know you might say NFL yada yada yada but just think about it , the guy just comes back since they hit with punches until he is too much.
Add the Hoffnung hax which one punch from their planet busting punches and GG for them

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Daio (Dec 11, 2021)

Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> No.


Yes. Unless Goku is higher dimensional his attacks wouldn't even completely erase Gerard.


Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> We know it reformed from his body which wasn't destroyed completely. Which is my point.


No? Bro, are we reading the same scans? Gerard didn't reform from his body; he reformed from the atmosphere's reishi.


Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> You gave me how a hollows existence is completely erased. Which I agreed to but explain how that applies to Gerard in any way


It was just a side note. You talk as if existence erasure is something ground breaking when its been a thing in Bleach. It's not necessarily suppose to link to Gerard.


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## Commander Shunsui (Dec 11, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> *Well Ki is physical* at the end of the day. Since they physical strikes are enhanced by ki?


No. No it's not. Please don't make claims when you don't actually know. A little research won't hurt you.


Xelioszzapporro said:


> So which opponents from DBZ you think Gerard loses ???


Other than anybody who can throw him into space? Master Roshi is probably the weakest. Probably.


Xelioszzapporro said:


> In my opinion the dude solos the verse


And just when I was going to take you seriously...


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## Masterblack06 (Dec 11, 2021)

if people wanna play games
Galactus gives gerard the cosmic suck and goes about his day


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 11, 2021)

what the hell do higher dimensions have to do with erasing Gerard lmfao

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Rev97 (Dec 11, 2021)

I don’t even know why this is a debate. He literally regenerated starting from his legs as clearly seen here.





^ Besides the legs, all those pieces of him gathering into the new body look to be coming from the ground where his body parts collapsed as well, meaning he really was putting himself back together using what was left of himself before.

Nevermind NLF, saying Gerard can regenerate from nothing at all is baseless and far fetched with the feats he’s demonstrated

Reactions: Like 2


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 11, 2021)

Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> No. No it's not. Please don't make claims when you don't actually know. A little research won't hurt you.



Then explain what ki is? It's physical energy dude. It HITS in a physical way.



Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> Other than anybody who can throw him into space? Master Roshi is probably the weakest. Probably.



And how do you know that will kill Gerard?



Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> And just when I was going to take you seriously...



You find it absurd due to the NFL which is a fallacy on it's own. But actually scratch that answer this.

Assuming they fight in a infinitely big area with nobody being in space. And they punch him.
What happens then?????

Answer the question.


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## Rev97 (Dec 11, 2021)

And before people say he’s an energy being or some shit in that form to argue he doesn’t need a body to come back, hardly. He left behind an entire skeleton as a corpse when Yhwach killed him.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 2


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## Commander Shunsui (Dec 11, 2021)

Daio said:


> Yes. Unless Goku is higher dimensional his attacks wouldn't even completely erase Gerard.


No. If you completely destroy somebody's body(that means everything) then that would completely erase him. I could be wrong but that is considered existence erasure. But let me add on that DBZ characters in particular aren't new to completely getting rid of someone.


Daio said:


> No? Bro, are we reading the same scans? Gerard didn't reform from his body; he reformed from the atmosphere's reishi


In my opinion he reformed from the ice shards of his body. And if you look at the page where he's reforming from light notice they connect to his frozen legs. Which just adds to my point that he wasn't completely gone in the first place.


Daio said:


> It was just a side note. You talk as if existence erasure is something ground breaking when its been a thing in Bleach. It's not necessarily suppose to link to Gerard


My point is it doesn't relate to Gerard


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## Commander Shunsui (Dec 11, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> Then explain what ki is? It's physical energy dude. It HITS in a physical way.


Well then by all means explain how ki is physical lol.


Xelioszzapporro said:


> And how do you know that will kill Gerard?


Because he'll be dead?


Xelioszzapporro said:


> You find it absurd


Anybody with a single working brain cell does as well.


Xelioszzapporro said:


> Assuming they fight in a infinitely big area with nobody being in space. And they punch him.
> What happens then?????


He dies. It's not Ouetsu didn't already do this to him.


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## Sabotage (Dec 11, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> Well Ki is physical at the end of the day. Since they physical strikes are enhanced by ki?
> So which opponents from DBZ you think Gerard loses ???
> 
> In my opinion the *dude solos the verse*. I know you might say NFL yada yada yada but just think about it , the guy just comes back since they hit with punches until he is too much.
> Add the Hoffnung hax which one punch from their planet busting punches and GG for them


What? There are people like Majin Buu who can turn him into candy, Hakai which is actual existence erasure, Master Roshi and others who can use the Mafuba technique.

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about

Reactions: Agree 2 | Optimistic 1


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 11, 2021)

Daio said:


> As I said, neither side is more valid than the other.


Except that's not true.

One method uses actual evidence.

The other either uses nothing or making baseless claims.

One is objectively better than the other.



Daio said:


> You're missing the point.


Yeah, ok.



Daio said:


> Is it not conjecture to state an ability has arbitrary limits despite its limitless nature not being contradicted?


No, because in this context, i limit myself to what is shown and do not make any other assertions as the burden of proof does not fall on me to prove that said ability can deal with more shit than it did.

You'd be the one who would have to prove that, and you can't since there is no evidence, so you'd resort to conjecture.



Daio said:


> No. You misunderstood what I was saying. I simply asked you a question based on a possibility (author intent) and the "in-verse" part was in regards to what you've agreed with down below.


I already have answered this,

I'll reiterate: Author intent by itself, is not enough to stand to this hobby's scrutiny.



Daio said:


> Yeah mate we don't disagree on all that much.


Sure.



Daio said:


> It is when you act like that's a matter of fact


It's the rules.

And again, i'm not seeing anything better , just a lot of bitching about it so...


Daio said:


> ridicule people


Yeah, i do.



Daio said:


> the same logic you use.


I believe i've been clear enough about the merits of one over the other.



Daio said:


> I think the idea of NLF could work if it was used correctly.


You spent all of this time saying that it's just as bad as whatever the fuck your position is...but now you're telling me it could work ?

Doesn't that kinda imply that it is indeed a little better ? Besides, of course, the subjective assertion that is not used correctly ?



Daio said:


> It's either objective or it's not. It's not objective, it's a safe lowball.


Most appropriate or correct then. 




Daio said:


> I probably have seen it but my comment is more in regards to the logic.


There was no logic, that was the fucking point.



Daio said:


> As I said, it depends on what you define "limitless" as. As I've implied, limitless can mean different things in different fictions.


Yeah, this is still not an answer.

I lost interest , anyway.



Xelioszzapporro said:


> Bro are you generally okay ??


i think you need to ask yourself that first.



Xelioszzapporro said:


> You are soooooo delusional


That;s cute.



Xelioszzapporro said:


> In the previous thread you just MENTIONED the argument of ignorance because it was relevant. And hence I said you made a good point.


Good. At least you understand that much.



Xelioszzapporro said:


> But as the debate continues here I feel like you don't get what that even means.


I don;t really care.



Xelioszzapporro said:


> So give some examples?


Go and take a look at your original comment , the one i replied to.
That's the perfect example.


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## Daio (Dec 11, 2021)

OtherGalaxy said:


> what the hell do higher dimensions have to do with erasing Gerard lmfao


Existence erasure through raw "energy" isn't going to happen no matter how many joules you hit someone with. I mention "higher dimensional" because that's probably the only way to erase someone from existence through raw power.



Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> No. If you completely destroy somebody's body(that means everything) then that would completely erase him. I could be wrong but that is considered existence erasure. But let me add on that DBZ characters in particular aren't new to completely getting rid of someone.


Yes. Everything. Atoms. Quarks. Nothing left. To my knowledge, no amount of joules can reduce matter to nothingness (existence erasure).


Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> In my opinion he reformed from the ice shards of his body. And if you look at the page where he's reforming from light notice they connect to his frozen legs. Which just adds to my point that he wasn't completely gone in the first place.


In fact, he didn't. I showed why already maaaayyyyn.


Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> My point is it doesn't relate to Gerard


Yeah, probably.


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## Commander Shunsui (Dec 11, 2021)

Sabotage said:


> What? There are people like Majin Buu who can turn him into candy, Hakai which is actual existence erasure, Master Roshi and others who can use the Mafuba technique.


I mentioned the Majin Buu part earlier, I forgot about Hakai because there's no way at the moment they'd reach the need for that. But there are plenty of shenanigans that can handle Gerard regardless.


Sabotage said:


> *You clearly have no idea what you are talking about*


Clearly he doesn't!!!


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 11, 2021)

Rev97 said:


> I don’t even know why this is a debate. He literally regenerated starting from his legs as clearly seen here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Rev97 said:


> And before people say he’s an energy being or some shit in that form to argue he doesn’t need a body to come back, hardly. He left behind an entire skeleton as a corpse when Yhwach killed him.




jesus christ no fucking way lmfao


----------



## Commander Shunsui (Dec 11, 2021)

Daio said:


> Yes. Everything. Atoms. Quarks. Nothing left. To my knowledge, no amount of joules can reduce matter to nothingness (existence erasure).


Yeah. That's my misunderstanding of the term for that. So to correct that I will state that Gerard hasn't taken an attack that completely destroyed his body. 


Daio said:


> In fact, he didn't. I showed why already maaaayyyyn.


I know what you're getting at but going back to what I said he's always had a part of his body in tact


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## Sabotage (Dec 11, 2021)

So basically 6 pages of Bleachfags wanking this guy?


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## Commander Shunsui (Dec 11, 2021)

Sabotage said:


> So basically 6 pages of Bleachfags wanking this guy?


As a member of the Bleach forum we do not claim a few of these guys. We claim Keishin and Divell for sure though lol Sables and  Mshadows can give you the full list lol

@Daio  is also accepted


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 11, 2021)

Sabotage said:


> So basically 6 pages of Bleachfags wanking this guy?


Most Bleach threads here are this in a nutshell.


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 11, 2021)

so ultimately 

even aside from the NLF wank


it turns out there is no actual evidence Gerard can regenerate from nothing, letalone having his soul destroyed

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 11, 2021)

Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> Well then by all means explain how ki is physical lol.



Lmao I ask you first. Why don't you answer the question? My definition is it's physical because it hits in a physical way.
And plus Ki attacks from the fighter come from analogous ki both for energy attacks and punches , kicks etc.

Explain yours.



Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> Because he'll be dead?



Very doubtful. Gerard solos imo.



Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> He dies. It's not Ouetsu didn't already do this to him.



How does he die? He didn't die when Byakuya and the others did damage.
He just came back as always.

Reactions: Ningen 1


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 11, 2021)

TYPE-Rey said:


> i think you need to ask yourself that first.



Nonsense. Stoic people are okay.



TYPE-Rey said:


> Go and take a look at your original comment , the one i replied to.
> That's the perfect example.



I know my example of course. So explain who is using an argument of ignorance? Nobody.
You just try to strawman us that we use a fallacy even though we don't.


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 11, 2021)

Sabotage said:


> What? There are people like Majin Buu who can turn him into candy, Hakai which is actual existence erasure, Master Roshi and others who can use the Mafuba technique.
> 
> You clearly have no idea what you are talking about



So what if he turns him into candy??? Vegito was sentient when he became a candy.
Existence erasure is agreeable though.

But to be safe from Saiyan Saga I think he solos.


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 11, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> Nonsense. Stoic people are okay.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ok.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Commander Shunsui (Dec 11, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> Lmao I ask you first. Why don't you answer the question?


You claimed a fucking Kamehameha is physical....


Xelioszzapporro said:


> My definition is it's physical because it hits in a physical way.


That's fine. You're still wrong.


Xelioszzapporro said:


> energy attacks


Energy attacks equal physical? 


Xelioszzapporro said:


> Explain yours.


I don't have a definition of ki. I go by what the Creator says....
Ki (気, "Ki", lit. "Spirit"), also known as chi/qi, Yōki (妖気, Yōki)[1] or simply energy (エネルギー, enerugī), is the life force energy used by Dragon Ball characters.


Xelioszzapporro said:


> Very doubtful. Gerard solos imo.


That's fine you're still wrong. Lol feel free to make a thread. 


Xelioszzapporro said:


> How does he die? He didn't die when Byakuya and the others did damage.
> He just came back as always.


Same way he did when Ouetsu did it.


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## Sabotage (Dec 11, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> So what if he turns him into candy??? Vegito was sentient when he became a candy.
> Existence erasure is agreeable though.
> 
> But to be safe from Saiyan Saga I think he solos.


We've already had evidence in this thread of him not being able to regenerate from even a skeleton. Literally anyone in the Saiyan Saga stomps him and the rest of his verse with ease.

And please show proof of Gerard having resistance to transmutation


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 11, 2021)

Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> You claimed a fucking Kamehameha is physical....
> 
> That's fine. You're still wrong.
> 
> ...



So you don't have the definition of Ki but you claim that my definition of ki is wrong based on nothing? Okay got it.


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## Daio (Dec 11, 2021)

TYPE-Rey said:


> Except that's not true.
> 
> One method uses actual evidence.
> 
> ...


No. You're assuming something is limited to what's been shown and they're assuming there's more to it than shown. 


TYPE-Rey said:


> Yeah, ok.
> 
> 
> No, because in this context, i limit myself to what is shown and do not make any other assertions as the burden of proof does not fall on me to prove that said ability can deal with more shit than it did.


As I've mentioned, most, if not all the time, this is treated as a matter of fact.


TYPE-Rey said:


> You'd be the one who would have to prove that, and you can't since there is no evidence, so you'd resort to conjecture.


In a case like that, sure. It's also conjecture to state that absence of evidence is evidence of abscense.


TYPE-Rey said:


> I already have answered this,
> 
> I'll reiterate: Author intent by itself, is not enough to stand to this hobby's scrutiny.


Never said it was but this "hobby" uses honeycomb logic so...


TYPE-Rey said:


> Sure.
> 
> 
> It's the rules.


That doesn't mean anything. The rules are flawed then.


TYPE-Rey said:


> And again, i'm not seeing anything better , just a lot of bitching about it so...
> 
> Yeah, i do.
> 
> ...


Yeah, sure. It could work if the definition was clear and/or slightly different (I see different people call different instances a "NLF" ) and if it was made clear it's not exactly objective. My arguement isn't completely far off from the idea of "NLF".


TYPE-Rey said:


> Doesn't that kinda imply that it is indeed a little better ? Besides, of course, the subjective assertion that is not used correctly ?


In it's current state, to my knowledge, no.


TYPE-Rey said:


> Most appropriate or correct then.


Cool.


TYPE-Rey said:


> There was no logic, that was the fucking point.


I mean, yeah. I don't disagree - I think that was what I was getting at.


TYPE-Rey said:


> Yeah, this is still not an answer.
> 
> I lost interest , anyway.


I mean, it's not exactly black and white is it?


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## Rev97 (Dec 11, 2021)

Sabotage said:


> We've already had evidence in this thread of him not being able to regenerate from even a skeleton. Literally anyone in the Saiyan Saga stomps him and the rest of his verse with ease.
> 
> And please show proof of Gerard having resistance to transmutation


To be fair, he has the feats to argue he can come back from being a skeleton. He died from Yhwach taking his powers while being reduced to a skeleton.

The scans were to prove he has no feats regenerating from nothing and that even his final form was still flesh and blood

Reactions: Agree 2 | Informative 1


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 11, 2021)

Sabotage said:


> We've already had evidence in this thread of him not being able to regenerate from even a skeleton. Literally anyone in the Saiyan Saga stomps him and the rest of his verse with ease.
> 
> And please show proof of Gerard having resistance to transmutation



That is not evidence. You have no clue about Bleach , you just looked in selective panels.
The fact is Yhwach took Gerard's power away which is why he didn't regenerate , he had no Miracle at that moment


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## Sabotage (Dec 11, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> That is not evidence. You have no clue about Bleach , you just looked in selective panels.
> The fact is Yhwach took Gerard's power away which is why he didn't regenerate , he had no Miracle at that moment


Saibamen still smoking that bootleg Viking pack

And still no proof of him having any resistance to transmutation

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Commander Shunsui (Dec 11, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> So you gave me the definition but I don't know how to admit that I'm wrong. I'll hold my L now Thanks


Lol one day you'll get it

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Commander Shunsui (Dec 11, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> So you don't have the definition of Ki but you claim that my definition of ki is wrong based on nothing? Okay got it.





Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> Ki (気, "Ki", lit. "Spirit"), also known as chi/qi, Yōki (妖気, Yōki)[1] or simply energy (エネルギー, enerugī), is the life force energy used by Dragon Ball characters.


Reading seems so hard for you lol


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## Daio (Dec 11, 2021)

Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> Yeah. That's my misunderstanding of the term for that. So to correct that I will state that Gerard hasn't taken an attack that completely destroyed his body.


True but he doesn't really need to.


Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> I know what you're getting at but going back to what I said he's always had a part of his body in tact


Sure but if he doesn't use his body to reform, it doesn't matter if it's there or not.

People bringing up his legs like:

- His legs would crumble under his weight if he reformed on them.

- You can see the *flat surface area on top of his legs; *how can this be if the rest of his body is connected to his legs?

- He's *literally further behind in the background compared to his frozen legs.*

Ayiyiyi.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 11, 2021)

Sabotage said:


> Saibamen still smoking that bootleg Viking pack
> 
> And still no proof of him having any resistance to transmutation



Veeeeery optimistic of you.


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 11, 2021)

Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> Reading seems so hard for you lol





Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> I don't have a definition of ki. I go by what the Creator says....



Yeeeaaah. 
Also by the way , you moved the goalpost. The initial question to you was ''Why a Kamehameha is not physical''

Still no answer


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 11, 2021)

Daio said:


> People bringing up his legs like:
> 
> - His legs would crumble under his weight if he reformed on them.
> 
> ...



FACTS!!!
On top of it. We didn't even see energy gathering first from the remaining frozen legs and then the body.
We see energy gathering at the same time from his atmoshpere to his body.


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## Commander Shunsui (Dec 11, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> Yeeeaaah.
> Also by the way , you moved the goalpost. The initial question to you was ''Why a Kamehameha is not physical''
> 
> Still no answer


Would you like me to spell it out for you? It's really not that hard to comprehend lol. But seeing as you're having trouble keeping up I'll break it down. Ki is energy. I don't know where you got physical from but it's completely wrong. The Kamehameha is a ki attack which means what kids? It isn't physical.

Now if you're really unsure about this please go to the DB section and tell them how you feel. No reason why you can't make a fool out of yourself in multiple sections.


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## Commander Shunsui (Dec 11, 2021)

Daio said:


> True but he doesn't really need to.


He would though. Just to prove he could do it. If he could do it then that settles the argument but it hasn't happened and the worst he's gotten it still wasn't to that degree.


Daio said:


> Sure but if he doesn't use his body to reform, it doesn't matter if it's there or not.


He does. I don't know why you're ignoring what's on panel.


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 11, 2021)

Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> Would you like me to spell it out for you? It's really not that hard to comprehend lol. But seeing as you're having trouble keeping up I'll break it down. Ki is energy. I don't know where you got physical from but it's completely wrong. The Kamehameha is a ki attack which means what kids? It isn't physical.
> 
> Now if you're really unsure about this please go to the DB section and tell them how you feel. No reason why you can't make a fool out of yourself in multiple sections.



The point is that it hits in a physical way 




> Physical way





> *Physical way*





> *Physical way*



and makes physical contact with the enemy that does physical damage.
You still haven't explain why Gerard will not come back from Kamehameha. So I will accept you concession.


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## Commander Shunsui (Dec 11, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> The point is that it hits in a physical way


Prove it's physical.


Xelioszzapporro said:


> You still haven't explain why Gerard will not come back from Kamehameha. So I will accept you concession.


Oh but I did twice actually lol but hey if you think you win hey by all means be wrong lol.


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## Sabotage (Dec 11, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> The point is that it hits in a physical way
> 
> 
> 
> ...


>Kamehameha reduces him to nothing 
>He stays that way

Simple. Even you should be able to understand it


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## Commander Shunsui (Dec 11, 2021)

Sabotage said:


> >Kamehameha reduces him to nothing
> >He stays that way
> 
> Simple. Even you should be able to understand it


Please I think you're giving him too much credit.


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 11, 2021)

we are the dumbest fucking VS section of all time

Reactions: Funny 6


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 11, 2021)

Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> Prove it's physical.



Because they are physical fighters with no hax. And their ki attacks do physical contact + physical damage.
Their ki attacks like Kamehameha seems to be like energy that expands from their life force. And they also use ki when they punch.

Now explain why Kamehameha is not physical???


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## Rev97 (Dec 11, 2021)

Daio said:


> True but he doesn't really need to.
> 
> Sure but if he doesn't use his body to reform, it doesn't matter if it's there or not.
> 
> ...


Could be that hes transparent as he’s reforming for that panel. His outline perfectly aligns with his legs in that panel to tell me it’s no coincidence that he’s using them

Reactions: Like 1


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## Daio (Dec 11, 2021)

Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> He would though. Just to prove he could do it. If he could do it then that settles the argument but it hasn't happened and the worst he's gotten it still wasn't to that degree.


That isn't the only way to prove he can survive those things.


Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> He does. I don't know why you're ignoring what's on panel.


Show me the panel because I'm 99% sure he doesn't.


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 11, 2021)

Sabotage said:


> >Kamehameha reduces him to nothing
> >He stays that way
> 
> Simple. Even you should be able to understand it



Yeah and I am saying that Gerard will come back since he regenerated from nothing. 
He regenerated from the atmosphere and as me and Daio pointed out the frozen leg parts are irrelevant.

So he can reduce him to nothing all he wants to Miracle kicks in and GG


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## Commander Shunsui (Dec 11, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> Because they are physical fighters with no hax. And their ki attacks do physical contact + physical damage.


We really shouldn't be explaining what an energy blast is


Xelioszzapporro said:


> Their ki attacks like Kamehameha seems to be like energy that expands from their life force. And they also use ki when they punch


Alright sir since you don't know go ask someone from the dragon ball section


Xelioszzapporro said:


> Now explain why Kamehameha is not physical???


Energy attack. Not physical attack. What more should I explain to you.


----------



## Commander Shunsui (Dec 11, 2021)

Daio said:


> That isn't the only way to prove he can survive those things.


What's the other way then? Word or mouth? Lol he either survives it, something worse than it or tells us he can. And the last one is shaky without proof


Daio said:


> Show me the panel because I'm 99% sure he doesn't.


Rev already posted them.


----------



## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 11, 2021)

Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> We really shouldn't be explaining what an energy blast is



For you we need.



Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> Alright sir since you don't know go ask someone from the dragon ball section



Lol if you consider what I am saying wrong , then why don't you correct me with your evidence right of the bat?
Face it you have none. I got it. It's all right sir.



Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> Energy attack. Not physical attack. What more should I explain to you.



Explain to me how dense can you fucking be?


----------



## Daio (Dec 11, 2021)

Rev97 said:


> Could be that hes transparent as he’s reforming for that panel. His outline perfectly aligns with his legs in that panel to tell me it’s no coincidence that he’s using them


We see that he isn't transparent at any moment and he's still further in the background. Kubo just drew the whole thing weird.



Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> What's the other way then? Word or mouth? Lol he either survives it, something worse than it or tells us he can. And the last one is shaky without proof


For arguments sake, let's just agree for a moment that Gerard did not use his body to reform.

Does that not make existence erasure futile?


Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> Rev already posted them.


I ask for everyone to look at the scans again with what I said in mind. Gerard using his body parts to reform is conjecture and him having a skeleton is irrelevant.


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## Sabotage (Dec 11, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> Yeah and I am saying that Gerard will come back since he regenerated from nothing.
> He regenerated from the atmosphere and as me and Daio pointed out the frozen leg parts are irrelevant.
> 
> So he can reduce him to nothing all he wants to Miracle kicks in and GG


>claims he can regenerate from the atmosphere
>the literal scan shows him regenerating from his remnants scattered on the ground

You're either an idiot or a liar. Probably both

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Commander Shunsui (Dec 11, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> Lol if you consider what I am saying wrong , then why don't you correct me with your evidence right of the bat?
> Face it you have none. I got it. It's all right sir


I'm sending you to the experts. People who know more than me. I already told you that ki is energy but your head canon won't allow you to be wrong even though you are lol


Xelioszzapporro said:


> Explain to me how dense can you fucking be?


Stoic people don't react like that. Shame. If you can't have a civil discussion about how the Kamehameha isn't a psychical attack then I'd suggest working on your anger before posting


----------



## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 11, 2021)

Sabotage said:


> You're either an idiot or a liar. Probably both



Lmao , very projective.
Show me him regeneraing from his ''remnants scattered on the ground'' Go ahead because you can clearly see reishi coming from the atmosphere while the legs are irrelevant.


----------



## Rev97 (Dec 11, 2021)

Daio said:


> We see that he isn't transparent at any moment and he's still further in the background. Kubo just drew the whole thing weird.
> 
> 
> For arguments sake, let's just agree for a moment that Gerard did not use his body to reform.
> ...



I disagree, look at how the legs are to Gerard. It’s clear as day Kubo drew it as part of Gerard’s form. If your talking about not seeing the buildings behind him, I guess translucent is more like it but the legs look like their right beneath him.


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 11, 2021)

Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> I'm sending you to the experts. People who know more than me. I already told you that ki is energy but your head canon won't allow you to be wrong even though you are lol



Tag them?



Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> Stoic people don't react like that. Shame. If you can't have a civil discussion about how the Kamehameha isn't a psychical attack then I'd suggest working on your anger before posting



I just called you dense in a very uncomplaining and peaceful way.   
Not sure where did you assume that I got angry at you?


----------



## Rev97 (Dec 11, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> Lmao , very projective.
> Show me him regeneraing from his ''remnants scattered on the ground'' Go ahead because you can clearly see reishi coming from the atmosphere while the legs are irrelevant.


Atmosphere is the ground now?


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## Commander Shunsui (Dec 11, 2021)

Daio said:


> For arguments sake, let's just agree for a moment that Gerard did not use his body to reform.
> 
> Does that not make existence erasure futile?


Then you'd have to defeat by other means if he can actually do that. Like absorption, reality warping etc.


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 11, 2021)

Rev97 said:


> Atmosphere is the ground now?



Don't you see that light in the atmposhere also?


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## Commander Shunsui (Dec 11, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> Tag them?


No just go to the section. Aren't you an adult? 


Xelioszzapporro said:


> I just called you dense in a very uncomplaining and peaceful way.
> Not sure where did you assume that I got angry at you?


And now you're being delusional? Not stoic at all.


----------



## Sabotage (Dec 11, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> Lmao , very projective.
> Show me him regeneraing from his ''remnants scattered on the ground'' Go ahead because you can clearly see reishi coming from the atmosphere while the legs are irrelevant.


Do you not see those fragments under his reforming body? If you're going to wank, at least put some effort into it


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## Sabotage (Dec 11, 2021)

Muh lights in the atmosphere mean I can regenerate from anything now. Kubo just drew me wrong


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 11, 2021)

Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> No just go to the section. Aren't you an adult?



Ok tomorrow. I will sleep now.


Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> And now you're being delusional? Not stoic at all.



I never got angry with you. Stoic people very rarely do after all.


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## Rev97 (Dec 11, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> Don't you see that light in the atmposhere also?


Erupting from his back? Sure. Not from the atmosphere though


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 11, 2021)

Sabotage said:


> Do you not see those fragments under his reforming body? If you're going to wank, at least put some effort into it



Suuuuuuuurreeeee , sure , very very sure!


----------



## Commander Shunsui (Dec 11, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> I never got angry with you. Stoic people very rarely do after all.


I can't believe a stoic person would lie. So sad


----------



## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 11, 2021)

Rev97 said:


> Erupting from his back? Sure.



What reason would  they do that lmao?


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 11, 2021)

Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> I can't believe a stoic person would lie. So sad



It's all right I will hug you and pet you. Here take some rep from a stoic person.


----------



## Rev97 (Dec 11, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> What reason would  they do that lmao?


Because that’s what the image shows


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## Commander Shunsui (Dec 11, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> It's all right I will hug you and pet you. Here take some rep from a stoic person.


More lies. Guess that stoic talk was also a lie


----------



## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 11, 2021)

Rev97 said:


> Because that’s what the image shows



You are just assuming that. There is no reason why what did you describe would happen.
But since it is just a panel we will wait for the anime.


----------



## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 11, 2021)

Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> More lies. Guess that stoic talk was also a lie



Lol lies? If I found you in real life I will pet you and hug you. Be sure.
Also lol did you read the messages when I give you rep???LMAO


----------



## Rev97 (Dec 11, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> You are just assuming that. There is no reason why what did you describe would happen.
> But since it is just a panel we will wait for the anime.


Bro, look at whats on his back. WTF am I assuming?




Heres another


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## Daio (Dec 11, 2021)

Rev97 said:


> I disagree, look at how the legs are to Gerard. It’s clear as day Kubo drew it as part of Gerard’s form. If your talking about not seeing the buildings behind him, I guess translucent is more like it but the legs look like their right beneath him.


Look at how his arms are behind the same buildings his frozen legs are infront of. His body isn't see through or invisible. If his coloured body was on top of his legs, it would be impossible to see the surface on top of said legs because his reishi would be connected to it.


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## Sabotage (Dec 11, 2021)

This xelios dude can't even understand images from a your basic shonen manga


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 11, 2021)

Rev97 said:


> Bro, look at whats on his back. WTF am I assuming?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Are you aware that in those images there are just reishi orbs that falling from Gerard's Light form.
They are light balls.
Rukia and Renji were dodging those from his falling body.


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## Rev97 (Dec 11, 2021)

Daio said:


> Look at how his arms are behind the same buildings his frozen legs are infront of. His body isn't see through or invisible. If his coloured body was on top of his legs, it would be impossible to see the surface on top of said legs because his reishi would be connected to it.


I said translucent, like only the things immediately next to him can be seen through.

There’s evidence on both sides for what Kubo is drawing on the panel so it’s inconclusive at this point: This one in particular can’t be used to argue Gerard’s regeneration level but likewise, can’t be used to argue he can regenerate from nothing

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Rev97 (Dec 11, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> Are you aware that in those images there are just reishi orbs that falling from Gerard's Light form.
> They are light balls.
> Rukia and Renji were dodging those from his falling body.


Your arguing Gerard gathering… whatever… from the atmosphere with a scan. The only thing in the scan you posted are the spikes on Gerard’s back that are part of his new form


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## accountmaker (Dec 11, 2021)

Masterblack06 said:


> if people wanna play games
> Galactus gives gerard the cosmic suck and goes about his day


You're the only one who can save us


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## Commander Shunsui (Dec 11, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> Lol lies? If I found you in real life I will pet you and hug you. Be sure.
> Also lol did you read the messages when I give you rep???LMAO


Oh you're back to your stalking? Stoic people don't do that


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 11, 2021)

Rev97 said:


> Your arguing Gerard gathering… whatever… from the atmosphere with a scan. The only thing in the scan you posted are the spikes on Gerard’s back that are part of his new form



Because he does. The 2 panels that you posted are irrelevant. 
Those orbs that you see around his body are not gathering , they are falling.


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## Rev97 (Dec 11, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> Lol lies? If I found you in real life I will pet you and hug you. Be sure.
> Also lol did you read the messages when I give you rep???LMAO


Are you off your meds?


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## Rev97 (Dec 11, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> Because he does. The 2 panels that you posted are irrelevant.
> Those orbs that you see around his body are not gathering , they are falling.


I don’t even know what your arguing at this point


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## accountmaker (Dec 11, 2021)

This is better than Netflix

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 11, 2021)

Rev97 said:


> Are you off your meds?



Lol what???
Meds? 


Rev97 said:


> I don’t even know what your arguing at this point



Ok.


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## Daio (Dec 11, 2021)

Rev97 said:


> I said translucent, like only the things immediately next to him can be seen through.
> 
> There’s evidence on both sides for what Kubo is drawing on the panel so it’s inconclusive at this point: This one in particular can’t be used to argue Gerard’s regeneration level but likewise, can’t be used to argue he can regenerate from nothing


I don't see how that refutes what I've said? Gerard being translucent is baseless as well.

No? There's no evidence on your side because I've debunked it. Gerard's body and his old legs aren't even in the same area. His legs would crumble under his mass. He didn't reform from his legs, simple.


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## Rev97 (Dec 11, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> Lol what???
> Meds?
> 
> 
> Ok.


Your crazy pills. Forget to take them today? Only reason I can see for why you repeatedly want to cuddle with dudes online

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Rev97 (Dec 11, 2021)

Daio said:


> I don't see how that refutes what I've said? Gerard being translucent is baseless as well.
> 
> No? There's no evidence on your side because I've debunked it. Gerard's body and his old legs aren't even in the same area. His legs would crumble under his mass. He didn't reform from his legs, simple.


Because again, their perfectly aligned with his body and we never see his legs again to confirm it.

Saying his legs would crumble is just as baseless. He only crumbled after Byakuya tore him apart. In fact, he wasn’t even that frozen since he could still bleed when Kenpachi grabbed him.


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## Sabotage (Dec 11, 2021)

I can now see why these clowns think Bleach is universal

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 11, 2021)

Rev97 said:


> Your crazy pills. Forget to take them today? Only reason I can see for why you repeatedly want to cuddle with dudes online



Oh so this is what you are talking about lmao.
No I don't take pills today or ever before.


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 11, 2021)

Rev97 said:


> Saying his legs would crumble is just as baseless. He only crumbled after Byakuya tore him apart. In fact, he wasn’t even that frozen since he could still bleed when Kenpachi grabbed him.



His legs didn't crumble because they are on the bottom so they don't fall since they stand on the ground.
Also when Byakuya striked Gerard he was fully frozen to the bone as shown in Chapter 672. When Kenpachi stabbed Gerard with his fingers he wasn't since previously he broke out of the ice. And since he broke out in the first place means that he wasn't frozen in the first instance.


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## Daio (Dec 11, 2021)

Rev97 said:


> Because again, their perfectly aligned with his body and we never see his legs again to confirm it.


That doesn't prove anything when you factor in what I've already mentioned. You don't need to see it for that to be proven false.


Rev97 said:


> Saying his legs would crumble is just as baseless. He only crumbled after Byakuya tore him apart. In fact, he wasn’t even that frozen since he could still bleed when Kenpachi grabbed him.


No. After his head got nuked and he "died" his entire body collapsed into ice cubes under its own weight. So, an even bigger mass of Gerard is going to break his own legs.


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## Rev97 (Dec 11, 2021)

Daio said:


> That doesn't prove anything when you factor in what I've already mentioned. You don't need to see it for that to be proven false.
> 
> No. After his head got nuked and he "died" his entire body collapsed into ice cubes under its own weight. So, an even bigger mass of Gerard is going to break his own legs.


How much bigger did Gerard get? It didn’t look anything significant to his previous form after Kenpachi cut him in half


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 11, 2021)

Rev97 said:


> How much bigger did Gerard get? It didn’t look anything significant to his previous form after Kenpachi cut him in half



Gerard's eyeball is as big as those huge buildings , check Chapter 680. He is kilometers big.
While when Kenpachi cut him in half he is 220 meters only


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## Rev97 (Dec 11, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> Gerard's eyeball is as big as those huge buildings , check Chapter 680. He is kilometers big.
> While when Kenpachi cut him in half he is 220 meters only


I’m referring to after he got cut in half and reformed. The picture I used for this thread is a good reference


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## Sabotage (Dec 11, 2021)

At this rate Gerard's legs will be planet level 

Too bad they won't be fast enough to step on literal toys

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Daio (Dec 12, 2021)

Rev97 said:


> How much bigger did Gerard get? It didn’t look anything significant to his previous form after Kenpachi cut him in half


I mean he's stated to be pretty big iirc. Either way he's big and heavy enough to crush his frozen legs if he reformed on top of them.


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## Rev97 (Dec 12, 2021)

Daio said:


> I mean he's stated to be pretty big iirc. Either way he's big and heavy enough to crush his frozen legs if he reformed on top of them.


Baseless, like you said of mine.


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## Sabotage (Dec 12, 2021)



Reactions: Funny 1


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 12, 2021)

Sabotage said:


>


getting folded by a wall level character

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Daio (Dec 12, 2021)

Rev97 said:


> Baseless, like you said of mine.


How? Firstly, Gerard's size and power increases with his damage/death. Secondly, his body crumbled into ice cubes virtually on its own but you're telling me a new, bigger Gerard wouldn't shatter his ice cube legs if he appeared on top of them?


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## Rev97 (Dec 12, 2021)

Daio said:


> How? Firstly, Gerard's size and power increases with his damage/death. Secondly, his body crumbled into ice cubes virtually on its own but you're telling me a new, bigger Gerard wouldn't shatter his ice cube legs if he appeared on top of them?


No because there doesn’t seem to be any substantial increase but a form chance. We know that sometimes, he doesn’t always increase in size. Like when Kenpachi tore off his arm and some other injuries he took


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## Daio (Dec 12, 2021)

Rev97 said:


> No because there doesn’t seem to be any substantial increase but a form chance. We know that sometimes, he doesn’t always increase in size. Like when Kenpachi tore off his arm and some other injuries he took


Regardless that thing towering over buildings is going to crush his ice cube legs. His arm grew back bigger when Kenpachi sliced it off btw.


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## Rev97 (Dec 12, 2021)

Daio said:


> Regardless that thing towering over buildings is going to crush his ice cube legs. His arm grew back bigger when Kenpachi sliced it off btw.


Was literally the same size




^ Nothing looks disproportionately bigger


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 12, 2021)

Rev97 said:


> Was literally the same size



That is false.
Gerard arm size indeed got notably bigger after regenerating from Kenpachi.

More accurately the forearm and palm.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Rev97 (Dec 12, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> That is false.
> Gerard arm size indeed got notably bigger after regenerating from Kenpachi.
> 
> More accurately the forearm and palm.


The only thing that stands out is the cut from before on that arm. You can see the forearm is literally no bigger than before, especially with the bottom panel


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## Bad Wolf (Dec 12, 2021)

Sabotage said:


> I can now see why these clowns think Bleach is universal


I don't even understand why you guys wanna argue with him, even while talking just about bleach he doesn't understand a thing. He was selling kenpachi as a godly being.

But for one thing I don't really agree, Gerard's regeneration.
We've seen him come back while his head/heart/organs and many part of his body were completely destroyed, there were the legs, yes (which were frozen, and in theory the power was nullified) but the main point here is what is getting shown, he could come back for such attack, the main point isn't to bring more biggaton to destroy him, he really doesn't need a specific part to reform. Like Edo Tensei and stuff like this. Arguing that more energy would kill him is kinda dishonest, next thing would be that he came back just X time and killing him x+1 would work? It's pretty clear how it is intended to work, I agree on the NFL part but some hax are like this.
Take the green baby from jojo that was talked about earlier, we know how it works but we've only seen him reduce stuff to a max of X size, would be pretty retard to argue that he hasn't shown the ability to make stuff smaller than that so he couldn't.
And if we want to be strict, normally you can't destroy matter, so even by "destroying" his whole body you haven't eliminated the remains, unless you use some hax powers to do so.
Would lille trumpet kill Gerard just because he can erase him? Dunno, that is a step beyond what we've seen, and always regenerating from his remains doesn't really help the argument.


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## Steven (Dec 12, 2021)

BossKitten said:


> Not seeing how hax Zeref is, is one of my regrets of dropping FT.


He is what Gerard wanted to be

Can come back even if your whole body got erased

Reactions: Like 1


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## RavenSupreme (Dec 12, 2021)

2003 cartoon Raven

elena from Grandia 2 pre EOS


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## Xadlin (Dec 12, 2021)

Adamant soul said:


> Beat you to her dude.
> 
> Although I was thinking age spells but transmutation works too.
> 
> ...


Nice one! Seeing as you are more knowledgeable about MLP powers along than me, I wouldn’t except anything less 

Yeah I was gonna suggest flutters to. Since her Hax is gonna directly attack his mind and her defense would leave her harmless to be able to mindfuck him.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Piecesis (Dec 12, 2021)

Leave bleach stans unchecked and it happens every single time

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Adamant soul (Dec 12, 2021)

Xadlin said:


> Nice one! Seeing as you are more knowledgeable about MLP powers along than me, I wouldn’t except anything less


Thank You


Xadlin said:


> Yeah I was gonna suggest flutters to. Since her Hax is gonna directly attack his mind and her defense would leave her harmless to be able to mindfuck him.


In fairness if he managed to land a hit on her she'd die outright as dc/durability feats in Friendship Souls are lacking.

However Fluttershy is easily close enough to Adagio (Vex has said Sunset, Adagio and Twilight are at the same level, while the other girls could win a fight with them if they weren't careful) to scale to her nanosecond reaction speed from her fight with Luna. Meaning she has a speed advantage and would never get hit before she wore down his mental defenses and made him harmless.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Rev97 (Dec 12, 2021)

Who’d have thought that girly shit was overpowered. LOL


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## Xadlin (Dec 12, 2021)

Rev97 said:


> Who’d have thought that girly shit was overpowered. LOL


>girly shit
>Powerpuff girls, Sheva and Sailor moon will remember that

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Rev97 (Dec 12, 2021)

Xadlin said:


> >girly shit
> >Powerpuff girls, Sheva and Sailor moon will remember that


Remembered watching a few episodes several years ago out of curiosity since Lauren Faust is behind it and I loved Fosters but couldn’t get into it so yeah, didn’t expect MLP to be OP


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## Adamant soul (Dec 12, 2021)

Rev97 said:


> Who’d have thought that girly shit was overpowered. LOL


I mean it's established in the first scene that Princesses Celestia and Luna move the Sun and Moon to keep day and night going.

So they're pretty fucking OP right from the jump and Unicorns/magic users tend to have a lot of hax even if they're not on par with the Princesses.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Steven (Dec 12, 2021)

Revan mindfucks Nazi Thor

Reactions: Like 2 | Optimistic 1


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## BossKitten (Dec 12, 2021)

Ziggy said:


> He is what Gerard wanted to be
> 
> Can come back even if your whole body got erased



That's broken!

How was he beaten?


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## Rev97 (Dec 12, 2021)

BossKitten said:


> That's broken!
> 
> How was he beaten?


The power of love basically. After Natsu punched him out, he and Mavis broke their respective curses of immortality and died together.

Yes it’s as cheesy as it sounds but that’s Mashima for you.


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## Keishin (Dec 12, 2021)

FH Zeref sucked. gerard would one shot


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## BossKitten (Dec 12, 2021)

Rev97 said:


> The power of love basically. After Natsu punched him out, he and Mavis broke their respective curses of immortality and died together.
> 
> Yes it’s as cheesy as it sounds but that’s Mashima for you.



He was in love with Mavis? That's the loli, right?


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## Rev97 (Dec 12, 2021)

BossKitten said:


> He was in love with Mavis? That's the loli, right?


Yup


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## BossKitten (Dec 12, 2021)

Rev97 said:


> Yup



So if not for her, Zeref is effectively a real immortal and broken as all hell?


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## Rev97 (Dec 12, 2021)

BossKitten said:


> So if not for her, Zeref is effectively a real immortal and broken as all hell?


On paper, truth be told he was pretty underwhelming thanks to terrible writing.

Endless magic and tons of spells at his disposal, yet chose to get into a punch out with Natsu and not using any of them.

Got knocked out after Natsu burns his time magic BUT it was pointed out that this wasn’t enough to kill him and that he would easily recover. Mavis than shows and the aforementioned happened.


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## Steven (Dec 12, 2021)

BossKitten said:


> That's broken!
> 
> How was he beaten?


Wild Flames Natsu can burn Magic sources away,hence FH got burned away

Mavis killed him ala Romeo and Julia

The fight was shit and Hiro turned Zeref into a CQC fighter.For real,he used only 1 spell against Natsu.But on paper he is broken with Time rewind,immortality,Timestop and Deathwave


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## Keishin (Dec 12, 2021)

Ziggy said:


> Wild Flames Natsu can burn Magic sources away,hence FH got burned away
> 
> Mavis killed him ala Romeo and Julia
> 
> The fight was shit and Hiro turned Zeref into a CQC fighter.For real,he used only 1 spell against Natsu.But on paper he is broken with Time rewind,immortality,Timestop and Deathwave


gerard on the contrary did not get fked by hitsugayas ice.. so how can you even say zeref is what gerard wanted to be when he has feats above him on top of having unused skills like sklaverei that should fk zeref up if natsus fire did.


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## Volt manta (Dec 12, 2021)

Rev97 said:


> Who’d have thought that girly shit was overpowered. LOL


Unless I missed something, I don't think they're talking about the "canon" MLP... unless I missed something wild in comic #95


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## Volt manta (Dec 12, 2021)

Composite Fluttershy does f*ck his shit up, however.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Volt manta (Dec 12, 2021)

Relax, Keishin- I didn't say she could defeat/kill him, I'm saying she could give him the Goku-Zamasu treatment.


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## BossKitten (Dec 12, 2021)

Rev97 said:


> On paper, truth be told he was pretty underwhelming thanks to terrible writing.
> 
> Endless magic and tons of spells at his disposal, yet chose to get into a punch out with Natsu and not using any of them.
> 
> Got knocked out after Natsu burns his time magic BUT it was pointed out that this wasn’t enough to kill him and that he would easily recover. Mavis than shows and the aforementioned happened.





Ziggy said:


> Wild Flames Natsu can burn Magic sources away,hence FH got burned away
> 
> Mavis killed him ala Romeo and Julia
> 
> The fight was shit and Hiro turned Zeref into a CQC fighter.For real,he used only 1 spell against Natsu.But on paper he is broken with Time rewind,immortality,Timestop and Deathwave




Natsu being able to destroy actual magic sources sounds like a better way to handle miracle than Asta's negation if you ask me.


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## Adamant soul (Dec 12, 2021)

Volt manta said:


> Unless I missed something, I don't think they're talking about the "canon" MLP... unless I missed something wild in comic #95


Well the Trixie stuff was canon, but the Fluttershy stuff we were discussing Friendship Souls (which is a Equestria Girls/Bleach crossover fic) hence why I specifically brought up the Fullbring that she has in that story.

I haven't actually read many of the comics aside from the 2013 ones, it's one of those things I need to get around to doing.


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## SSBMonado (Dec 12, 2021)

Rev97 said:


> The power of love basically. After Natsu punched him out, he and Mavis broke their respective curses of immortality and died together.
> 
> Yes it’s as cheesy as it sounds but that’s Mashima for you.



Meh. In my eyes, there will never be a more absurd way to defeat the big bad than the Shaman King manga.
The villain is broken OP and nobody in the plot has any idea how to beat him. Solution? Let him succeed in becoming god, then convince him to not be a dick about it. It works.


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## Adamant soul (Dec 12, 2021)

SSBMonado said:


> Meh. In my eyes, there will never be a more absurd way to defeat the big bad than the Shaman King manga.
> The villain is broken OP and nobody in the plot has any idea how to beat him. Solution? Let him succeed in becoming god, then convince him to not be a dick about it. It works.


I'm pretty sure their plan was to kill him while he was merging with the Great Spirit and was vulnerable. They just took too long of getting there and he woke up. Or at least that's what I've heard, I haven't read the whole manga.

TBF Even IF they (somehow) beat him there, he'd just reincarnate himself later and try again and again and again until he succeeded, and he gets stronger each time. Hao was GOING to become Shaman King eventually, no matter how many times you kill him, you'd just be delaying the inevitable.

Talking him down was pretty much the only real option they had at that point. I can't speak to how well executed it actually was but it's not inherently a bad thing.


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## Alita (Dec 12, 2021)

Honestly anyone with overall stats higher than him can beat his ass any time he wants even if they may not be able to kill him. You don't need hax for him unless you are trying to kill him for good. And just about every hax works on him so....

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## Steven (Dec 12, 2021)

Keishin said:


> so how can you even say zeref is what gerard wanted to be when he has feats above him


Zeref was able to come back after his whole body got erased,unlike Gerard.Time rewind+Immortal>Gerards Regen



Keishin said:


> sklaverei that should fk zeref up if natsus fire did.


WF was a special ability.Gerard cant burn energy sources away

But Zeref can steal and absorb the Miracle


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## Keishin (Dec 12, 2021)

Ziggy said:


> Zeref was able to come back after his whole body got erased,unlike Gerard.Time rewind+Immortal>Gerards Regen
> 
> 
> WF was a special ability.Gerard cant burn energy sources away
> ...


not true

skaverei absorbs zeref since zeref cant defy natsus fire

nope because toshiros ice couldnt work on him


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## AgentAAA (Dec 12, 2021)

basically any starcraft character of real power can do it, since they can wipe people from reality and are faster. Gets bodied by artanis, Tassadar, most hybrid and basically any character that doesn't die in Kerrigan's presence. most of the mid-tier can't die to him either, they're just not fast enough to get 'em.


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## Medjaynegus (Dec 13, 2021)

accountmaker said:


> Sure. it's Reishi based, and we equalize reishi with magic power


You mean reiatsu?


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## AgentAAA (Dec 13, 2021)

Medjaynegus said:


> You mean reiatsu?


no, Reishi.
Reiatsu is spiritual pressure - what is created as spiritual force passively by your spirit energy. it's how you crush someone under the weight of your power. Reishi is the actual energy involved.

kenpachi crushing ichigo ganju and hanatarou to his knees is reiatsu, but Getsuga tensho or Kido is Reishi


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## Medjaynegus (Dec 13, 2021)

AgentAAA said:


> no, Reishi.
> Reiatsu is spiritual pressure - what is created as spiritual force passively by your spirit energy. it's how you crush someone under the weight of your power. Reishi is the actual energy involved.
> 
> kenpachi crushing ichigo ganju and hanatarou to his knees is reiatsu, but Getsuga tensho or Kido is Reishi


Reishi is not spiritual pressure, reiatsu is spiritual pressure. 

No, kido is fueled by reiatsu and GT is fueled by reiatsu as well.


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## AgentAAA (Dec 13, 2021)

Medjaynegus said:


> Reishi is not spiritual pressure, reiatsu is spiritual pressure.
> 
> No, kido is fueled by reiatsu and GT is fueled by reiatsu as well.


Correct. Reiatsu is spiritual pressure. Reishi is spiritual energy.
Reishi's translation is "spirit particles" and is also called spiritrons. Kido and GT are both fueled by spiritual energy.


Reiatsu's translation is spiritual pressure and affects one's general stats - it's the sort of thing used for punching and slicing and why their energy doesn't go down just from doing that a lot. it's an emission of their energy rather than the energy itself.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Dec 13, 2021)

11 pages lmao


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## Medjaynegus (Dec 14, 2021)

AgentAAA said:


> Correct. Reiatsu is spiritual pressure. Reishi is spiritual energy.
> Reishi's translation is "spirit particles" and is also called spiritrons. Kido and GT are both fueled by spiritual energy.
> 
> 
> Reiatsu's translation is spiritual pressure and affects one's general stats - it's the sort of thing used for punching and slicing and why their energy doesn't go down just from doing that a lot. it's an emission of their energy rather than the energy itself.


No its nor fueled by reishi, its fueled by reiatsu. Ichigo uses his reiatsu for GT and kido uses reiatsu


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## accountmaker (Dec 14, 2021)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> 11 pages lmao


Let's go for lucky number 13


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## Big Bob (Dec 14, 2021)

SoK one shots.


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## accountmaker (Dec 14, 2021)

Big Bob said:


> SoK one shots.


Gets 1 shot by Saitama


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## Endless Mike (Dec 14, 2021)

Had to check on the Bleach wiki to remember what this guy could do.

So I'll give two standard answers against probability manipulators:

616 Scarlet Witch
Vriska Serket

Also, someone respond to the thread I made already

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Keishin (Dec 14, 2021)

AgentAAA said:


> Correct. Reiatsu is spiritual pressure. Reishi is spiritual energy.
> Reishi's translation is "spirit particles" and is also called spiritrons. Kido and GT are both fueled by spiritual energy.
> 
> 
> Reiatsu's translation is spiritual pressure and affects one's general stats - it's the sort of thing used for punching and slicing and why their energy doesn't go down just from doing that a lot. it's an emission of their energy rather than the energy itself.


Reishi is spiritual matter.
Spiritual authority is calculated from the amount of reiatsu that resides in reishi.

Reactions: Like 1


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## accountmaker (Dec 14, 2021)

Endless Mike said:


> Had to check on the Bleach wiki to remember what this guy could do.
> 
> So I'll give two standard answers against probability manipulators:
> 
> ...


That's overkill. Nappa is enough tbh


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## Endless Mike (Dec 14, 2021)

accountmaker said:


> That's overkill. Nappa is enough tbh



Well I was thinking more along the lines of characters with powers that could effectively counter/negate his powers.

Also, the first vs. thread I've made in years and no one is responding...


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## ZNeverLostZ (Dec 14, 2021)

Keishin said:


> not true
> 
> skaverei absorbs zeref since zeref cant defy natsus fire
> 
> nope because toshiros ice couldnt work on him


Idk if relatee but natsu sht bs power is pretty stupid somehow.. Let said your are dragon turn unto human than you couldn't turn into dragon again permanently after that becouse of bs event tho your are real dragon


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## Big Bob (Dec 14, 2021)

accountmaker said:


> Gets 1 shot by Saitama


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## Kurou (Dec 14, 2021)

My dick slaps

Reactions: Funny 2


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## kayz (Dec 14, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> Only the 2 latter are accurate. The other 5 are false.


How does he get past time freeze or time loop like MCU Strange's?
How does he get past illusions for example IT in Naruto?
How does he get past time-related BFR like sending him to the past/future like angels in Supernatural?
How does he get past reality Warping?
How does he get past causality manipulation which even controls his fate?


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 14, 2021)

he doesn't


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## Xelioszzapporro (Dec 14, 2021)

kayz said:


> How does he get past time freeze or time loop like MCU Strange's?
> How does he get past illusions for example IT in Naruto?
> How does he get past time-related BFR like sending him to the past/future like angels in Supernatural?
> How does he get past reality Warping?
> How does he get past causality manipulation which even controls his fate?



I don't know who MCY Strange is and his abilities.
Naruto verse has no feats to beat Gerard.
I have already named the others that you named , just read the debate.


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## Rev97 (Dec 14, 2021)

TSBs to erase Gerard beyond what he’s shown to come back from, especially Kaguya’s Giant TSB

Genjutsu to put him to sleep or worse, 

Sealing 

There’s plenty of options for Naruto against the simple brick

Reactions: Like 1


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## kayz (Dec 14, 2021)

Xelioszzapporro said:


> I don't know who MCY Strange is and his abilities.
> *Naruto verse has no feats to beat Gerard*.
> I have already named the others that you named , just read the debate.


What feats does Gerard have against mind fuck and mind control?


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 14, 2021)

kayz said:


> How does he get past time freeze or time loop like MCU Strange's?
> How does he get past illusions for example IT in Naruto?
> How does he get past time-related BFR like sending him to the past/future like angels in Supernatural?
> How does he get past reality Warping?
> How does he get past causality manipulation which even controls his fate?


He gets bigger and swole-r

for real though he has nothing

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 2 | Optimistic 2


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## Masterblack06 (Dec 14, 2021)

GER, TUSK ACT 4, SOFT AND WET GO BEYOND, NOVEL KARS

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Masterblack06 (Dec 14, 2021)

Fucking Carmen Sandiego would beat this man. Yall hyping up Gerard to much out here


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## accountmaker (Dec 15, 2021)

Masterblack06 said:


> Fucking Carmen Sandiego would beat this man. Yall hyping up Gerard to much out here


Omg mb daddy ish back


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## Masterblack06 (Dec 15, 2021)

accountmaker said:


> Omg mb daddy ish back


Im not back i just found this thread so mind boggling that i had to post in it

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Volt manta (Dec 15, 2021)

Carmen Sandiego is nothing to f*ck with- she's Ichibei's level of stealing concepts from people, but better.


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## accountmaker (Dec 15, 2021)

Volt manta said:


> Carmen Sandiego is nothing to f*ck with- she's Ichibei's level of stealing concepts from people, but better.


Why do you censor the word fuck? Has this jew age sensitivity bullshit gotten to you, too?


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## Steven (Dec 15, 2021)

Buu turns him into a Candy


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## Volt manta (Dec 15, 2021)

accountmaker said:


> Why do you censor the word fuck? Has this jew age sensitivity bullshit gotten to you, too?


In-in-joke-on occasion I censor myself on forums and servers just to see who's the sort of person to jump for it... I get bored easily, you see.


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## accountmaker (Dec 15, 2021)

Volt manta said:


> In-in-joke-on occasion I censor myself on forums and servers just to see who's the sort of person to jump for it... I get bored easily, you see.


I understand perfectly. It's kind of like when someone says your instead of you're.


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## Steven (Dec 15, 2021)

@Rev97 Haku blitzed and turns Gerard into a doll


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## AgentAAA (Dec 17, 2021)

also, to make sure I'm actually contributing to the thread other than corrections:
Santa Claus (The Secret world of Santa claus)


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## Jag77 (Dec 17, 2021)

Kamen Rider Cronus.


Dude's timestop death is obnoxious.

"Anybody who dies in my paused time ceases to exist or return...They live the moment of death for all eternity"


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## Akira1993 (Dec 18, 2021)

How it reached 11 pages?


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## GregSteve (Dec 18, 2021)

No one can beat TTGL Gerard or Macroversal Ywach gg fiction

Reactions: Funny 2


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## accountmaker (Dec 18, 2021)

GregSteve said:


> No one can beat TTGL Gerard or Macroversal Ywach gg fiction


3 words
Pre.Timeskip.Neji.

Reactions: MAXIMUM 1


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## Commander Shunsui (Dec 18, 2021)

accountmaker said:


> 3 words
> Pre.Timeskip.Neji.


I don't know man. Neji isn't good against any type of wood.


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## accountmaker (Dec 18, 2021)

Yusuke Uramesh1 said:


> I don't know man. Neji isn't good against any type of wood.


HEYOOO


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