# Current Gai vs Saitama



## Mexikorn (Mar 19, 2014)

this, no comments
feats only (and powerscaling)


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## Lucaniel (Mar 19, 2014)

i'm guessing all the buggertons implied by gai's ability to physically overpower madara put him above saitama

then again, i haven't read the original webcomic, just the manga


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## Iwandesu (Mar 19, 2014)

If feats only means (only manga feats) gai has speed edge, and saitama a casual island punch (i dunno about gai durability but I'm sure he has continental dc (or at least country +)


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## OS (Mar 19, 2014)

Didn't saitama flip over a huge piece of land?


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## Iwandesu (Mar 19, 2014)

OS said:


> Didn't saitama flip over a huge piece of land?


He did,  but I dunno if webcomic got calced.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Mar 19, 2014)

Gai is Mach 24,000+ and has "exaton punches" he takes this until Saitama gets more feats


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## Atlantic Storm (Mar 19, 2014)

I really want to say Saitama one shots.

But he probably doesn't. At least he'd finally have a fun fight before he gets punched out of existence.


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## OS (Mar 19, 2014)

Gai is the hero Naruto needs.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 19, 2014)

Hype Saitama is faster then Light and can casually Planet bust.

By feats/calcs he is way lower, lower to the point Gai wins.

So those are the answers.


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## Linkofone (Mar 19, 2014)

Hmm ... should have saw this coming.


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## megaman12321 (Mar 19, 2014)

Curse the need for more info. There's gonna be a shitstorm of threads when the Garos fight gets drawn though


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## Mexikorn (Mar 20, 2014)

Let me share some of my thoughts I came up with for this topic.

Gai is agreeably the "stronger" (and faster) high-end fighter out of the two. He's the one who can hold his own against Madara, who is both stronger than most of HST as well as stronger than Saitama. (featwise) Downside is, that 8 gates very much strains his body and is kind of a temporal power up. This makes me think Saitama could win a battle of attrition. He never even exhausted his body yet in a fight. Smashing a (island size?) metoeor didn't make him sweat a bit (casual punch). Going by that logic Saitama would be able to just chain that sort of punch, which could give Gai trouble. I'm also not certain how exactly 8 gates affects Gai's durability. How I understand it he already feels "horrible pain" from just opening all his gates. Wouldn't a meteor smashing hit be overkill on him? (I suppose you can't powerscale his dura from the biju, i think?!? hes kind of a glass cannon?)

Don't be mad at me when I play a stupid Devil's Advocate with bad english, I'm just trying to share my AIDS opinion


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## Kurou (Mar 20, 2014)

mach 24k 


what the fuck


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## Kurou (Mar 20, 2014)

Musu I'd like whatever you're smoking pls


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## Mr. Black Leg (Mar 20, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> Gai is Mach 24,000+ and has "exaton punches" he takes this until Saitama gets more feats



No one gets scaled to that .


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 20, 2014)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> No one gets scaled to that .


how does 8G Gais DC/durability (since these were physical attacks -->  ) *not* get scaled ? 


as for speed scaling, I'll double-check with Waka   but he was kind of blitzing Juudara  I think


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## Nighty the Mighty (Mar 20, 2014)

You would need to prove that Juudara has Mach 24k reactions then.

since Black balls are thrown out as mach 24k you can't use that, and there's nothing else afaik that so much as points towards that level of reactions


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 20, 2014)

thisagain.jpg

almost everything he does with his attacks requires having the control/reactions on par with the attacks speed which are >= Juubis



also now that I think about it 

there's a bunch of indications to suggest that jins physical attack/short range speed is >= black balls/shapes speed

namely since some people generally can react to some extent the black balls (whether you think that's PIS or not), but can't to physical attacks (like when Juubito blitzed the hokages and when Juudara cut off SM Minatos arm without him being able to react .. Minato who teleport-intercepted the black balls flying at Gai in the last chapter)


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## Ice (Mar 20, 2014)

Darth. That set. :33


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## tkpirate (Mar 20, 2014)

i don't know if this works or not,but normally jins are faster than their BB.BM Naruto is easily faster than his own BB.


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## LineageCold (Mar 20, 2014)

(I'll leave the LolJubiJinCan'tReactToJubidama debate to you two ) Anyway I'm here just to prove that 8 gate gai is equal (or slightly faster than current madara in movement speed)

1. (For the intelligent folks   who says Lolplot or madara wasn't trying dodge or avoid gai punches)

Anyone with half a brain (read the bottom left panel ) can see madara was /will try his best avoid gai next assault
Although madara can barely react (he still react though) his body could barely move in time to defend from guy's elephant assault.




2. And finally we here see gai was able to cross dozens of meter & got behind madara before he can fully react & turn around to defend

As of now 8 gated is equal or slightly faster than current madara. (But next chapter madara is gonna go all out to defeat gai)

Note: I'm only here to point out 8 gated gai > current madara in movement speed.

& for the thread, saitama is a gag character so he punches gai head off


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 20, 2014)

I think Gais superiority was kind of obvious the entire last chapter


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## LineageCold (Mar 20, 2014)

Fluttershy said:


> I think Gais superiority was kind of obvious the entire last chapter



I think so too  , but I'm still dumbfounded on the fact that some believe a jubi jin can't react to a simple second stage jubi BD, maybe if the numbers where lower folks would'nt throw a fit


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## Mr. Black Leg (Mar 20, 2014)

Does Guy gets powerscaled to what he did last chapter in the Durability department ? Cause the only argument I can see for that is that he is enduring all the chakra he's got, but that doesn't make too much sense to me, actually .


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## Mexikorn (Mar 20, 2014)

I suppose there isn't going to be a opinion on a winner anytime soon because everyone is busy calculating Gai.


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## Iwandesu (Mar 20, 2014)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Does Guy gets powerscaled to what he did last chapter in the Durability department ? Cause the only argument I can see for that is that he is enduring all the chakra he's got, but that doesn't make too much sense to me, actually .


I think newtown laws have something about this
Still, yeah he didn't show anything bout durability besides tanking the chock waves from his own punches.


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## Iwandesu (Mar 20, 2014)

Mexikorn said:


> I suppose there isn't going to be a opinion on a winner anytime soon because everyone is busy calculating Gai.


Well, it's kind important you know? 
 with some calcs he can either curbstomps feat saitama or lose due to speed and Durability lack.


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## Mexikorn (Mar 20, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> Well, it's kind important you know?
> with some calcs he can either curbstomps feat saitama or lose due to speed and Durability lack.



sounds reasonable enough
just makes me think i should have wait with making this thread until the calcs are finally out
this doesnt make much sense atm and reviving it later on is bs


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 20, 2014)

there are no calcs




Mr. Black Leg said:


> Does Guy gets powerscaled to what he did last chapter in the Durability department ? Cause the only argument I can see for that is that he is enduring all the chakra he's got, but that doesn't make too much sense to me, actually .


> Gai
> pure taijutsu
>


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## Iwandesu (Mar 20, 2014)

Fluttershy said:


> there are no calcs


 the essence is still the same. 
We are debating powerscalle issues and some guy was even trying to say gai shouldn't have that much dura as he used the black sphere to stop the attacks. (If you mean we already gave gai country + dc, dura and 5 digit mach.  Then yeah, there is nothing supplying further calcs)


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## LineageCold (Mar 20, 2014)

It seems the gai DC has been accepted by most reasonable members,  but some are still arguing on the LolJubiJinCantReactToAJubidama atm. I'm just sitting back watching


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 20, 2014)

there aren't that many reasonable members to begin with


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## Mr. Black Leg (Mar 20, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> I think newtown laws have something about this
> Still, yeah he didn't show anything bout durability besides tanking the chock waves from his own punches.





Fluttershy said:


> there are no calcs
> 
> 
> > Gai
> ...



Thanks . So this is valid only for people who use punches/kicks or people who use powers ?(I didn't read the full topic) .


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 20, 2014)

punches/kicks (or, lifting too I guess)


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## Velocity (Mar 20, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> Gai is Mach 24,000+ and has "exaton punches" he takes this until Saitama gets more feats



I'm sorry, but _what?_ When the heck did Naruto characters start moving at almost 8'200 km/s?


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## shade0180 (Mar 20, 2014)

since the bijuu........


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## Velocity (Mar 20, 2014)

shade0180 said:


> since the bijuu........



Oh come on... Where are the time frames? The distance travelled? This is a manga we're talking about where five second openings were considered to be too small for people to abuse without serious planning and preparation beforehand... And I'm supposed to buy that now everyone runs around so fast that they're almost approaching 3% of the speed of light? That's absurd.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 20, 2014)

Velocity, try moviecodec VS section


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## LineageCold (Mar 20, 2014)

Velocity said:


> I'm sorry, but _what?_ When the heck did Naruto characters start moving at almost 8'200 km/s?



This feat,


Jubi jin madara> jewbito> 3rd amped buff jubi>2 stage cripple jubi 
(Simple power scale )


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## LazyWaka (Mar 20, 2014)

OS said:


> Gai is the hero Naruto needs.



But not the one it deserves.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 20, 2014)

The Youthful Knight


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## Mr. Black Leg (Mar 20, 2014)

This summer .


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## Velocity (Mar 20, 2014)

LineageCold said:


> This feat,
> 
> 
> Jubi jin madara> jewbito> 3rd amped buff jubi>2 stage cripple jubi
> (Simple power scale )



What feat? It's standing still. It's also absolutely freakin' enormous, so you can't say "The Ten Tails can move at x speed, which means human sized characters can be scaled to it" because bigger objects naturally move much faster.

And you're messing up with powerscaling. While there is a considerable difference between Madara and Obito due to the fact Madara successfully captured the Eight and half of the Nine Tails, which is compounded further by Madara's own superiority compared to Obito, the difference between Obito and the "amped" Ten Tails isn't that great. Yeah, he's stronger but by only a negligible amount - the real difference comes from his control over that power, since the manga has beaten it into our heads that Biju lack control. The power scale isn't actually all that big and it's very all over the place, so you can't really use it to say "well if x character can move so fast, then y character obviously must move z amount faster".

So, really, where is this 3% the speed of light stuff coming from? People complain all the time about the lack of time frames and how it makes speed near impossible to calculate, so when did it become so easy to assign speeds to characters in excess of tens of thousands of times the speed of sound?


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## Iwandesu (Mar 20, 2014)

Velocity said:


> What feat? It's standing still. It's also absolutely freakin' enormous, so you can't say "The Ten Tails can move at x speed, which means human sized characters can be scaled to it" because bigger objects naturally move much faster.
> 
> And you're messing up with powerscaling. While there is a considerable difference between Madara and Obito due to the fact Madara successfully captured the Eight and half of the Nine Tails, which is compounded further by Madara's own superiority compared to Obito, the difference between Obito and the "amped" Ten Tails isn't that great. Yeah, he's stronger but by only a negligible amount - the real difference comes from his control over that power, since the manga has beaten it into our heads that Biju lack control. The power scale isn't actually all that big and it's very all over the place, so you can't really use it to say "well if x character can move so fast, then y character obviously must move z amount faster".
> So, really, where is this 3% the speed of light stuff coming from? People complain all the time about the lack of time frames and how it makes speed near impossible to calculate, so when did it become so easy to assign speeds to characters in excess of tens of thousands of times the speed of sound?


I dunno if you read the latter panels but the bjb covered an huge distance in few secs here. Also juubi already reacted to 3 digit bjb from few cm (so did, juubito). Hell, juubi spammed a bjd which flew to another country after 2-3 secs iirc.
Just checked he slapped a bjb.

This is for the reaction


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## Velocity (Mar 20, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> I dunno if you read the latter panels but the bjb covered an huge distance in few secs here. Also juubi already reacted to 3 digit bjb from few cm (so did, juubito). Hell, juubi slapped a rock or something similar which flew to another country after 2-3 secs iirc.
> Just checked it was a bjb and was less than a sec.



I have no problem with triple digit Mach speeds, but what you're suggesting is a hundred times faster. That sort of jump just isn't feasible, let alone understandable. Besides, the feat itself isn't valid - there is no timeframe, the distance is sketchy at best and it's a projectile with no proof the Ten Tails could match it in speed, let alone Madara who is much smaller and thus slower.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 20, 2014)

feels like I time-travelled 2-3 or so years into the past


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## LineageCold (Mar 20, 2014)

Velocity said:


> I have no problem with triple digit Mach speeds, but what you're suggesting is a hundred times faster. That sort of jump just isn't feasible, let alone understandable. Besides, the feat itself isn't valid - there is no timeframe, the distance is sketchy at best and it's a projectile with no proof the Ten Tails could match it in speed, let alone Madara who is much smaller and thus slower.



No disrespect, but your argument is (ItsToStrong&FastToBeInNarutoVerse)? If you have such a problem with it go debunk the calc(which I doubt) instead of saying its to fast for naruto top & god tiers


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## Iwandesu (Mar 20, 2014)

Velocity said:


> I have no problem with triple digit Mach speeds, but what you're suggesting is a hundred times faster. That sort of jump just isn't feasible, let alone understandable. Besides, the feat itself isn't valid - there is no timeframe, the distance is sketchy at best and it's a projectile with no proof the Ten Tails could match it in speed, let alone Madara who is much smaller and thus slower.


Why would someone smaller have less reaction speed ?
I mean, just why? again, any bijju can react to its own bjd, I dunno any feat about 24k travel speed for juubi   just 24k reactions.


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## Velocity (Mar 20, 2014)

LineageCold said:


> No disrespect, but your argument is (ItsToStrong&FastToBeInNarutoVerse)? If you have such a problem with it go debunk the calc(which I doubt) instead of saying its to fast for naruto top & god tiers



No, my problem is that a projectile's speed was calculated using essentially made up measurements of time and distance and somehow Madara gets scaled to that projectile's speed. Even ignoring the guesswork calculation of the projectile's speed, why is Madara scaled to it? Because a different character, who he has absorbed into his body, fired it off and is assumed to be able to react to its own attack? Madara didn't fire off the projectile, there's no indication he even can and there's definitely no indication that he would be able to move as fast as it let alone have reaction speeds comparable to its movement speed (which itself wouldn't make much sense either).


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## Mr. Black Leg (Mar 20, 2014)

Actually the tendency is to smaller things be faster because with the same KE they move at different speeds .

Let's say a truck and a person . With X KE a truck would move X km/h but with the same KE the person would move 10X km/h .

Do you even physics ?


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## Nighty the Mighty (Mar 20, 2014)

Ice said:


> Darth. That set. :33



:33



iwandesu said:


> Why would someone smaller have less reaction speed ?
> I mean, just why? again, any bijju can react to its own bjd, I dunno any feat about 24k travel speed for juubi   just 24k reactions.



this is bullshit with absolutely no logic behind it.

the fact is you can't prove that the black balls are faster without saying "they just are" and you can't prove the juubi gets those reactions without saying "he just does".

the argument is retarded and no reasonable person should accept it after this chapter.

1. Lee threw a kunai faster than the balls
2. Minato reacted fully to them from much closer than a meter, did so twice in fact


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## LineageCold (Mar 20, 2014)

Velocity said:


> No, my problem is that a projectile's speed was calculated using essentially made up measurements of time and distance and somehow Madara gets scaled to that projectile's speed. Even ignoring the guesswork calculation of the projectile's speed, why is Madara scaled to it? Because a different character, who he has absorbed into his body, fired it off and is assumed to be able to react to its own attack? Madara didn't fire off the projectile, there's no indication he even can and there's definitely no indication that he would be able to move as fast as it let alone have reaction speeds comparable to its movement speed (which itself wouldn't make much sense either).



Again, I did not made the calc, go to the Calc'r ( I think fluttershy on the distance & timeframe matter) but on topic, so what ur telling me is, a god tier , the jubi, cannot react to his bd'? When its common that all of the bujiu we've seen has reaction comparable to the speed of there Bb's? But now you want me to believe a god tier jubi can't react to one of his bd's( I bet you if the jubi bd's were triple digit mach you wouldn't have a problem would you mate? ) but on the matter this debate is a stalemate for obvious reasons but I do understand what ur saying, my assumption are kinda baseless, (but like I said before, it would be ridiculous for a god tier jubi ,not to have reaction atleast comparable or "greater" than his bd.) But for now I concede


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 20, 2014)

the amount of sheer wrong (from everyone) on this page hurts my virgin eyes 





> 1. Lee threw a kunai faster than the balls


lets scale a god-tier down to Lee level then, seems legit 

btw, earlier some ~jonin made a rock pillar rise up fast enough to redirect Juubis BB and Minato later got in front of a flying one and FTGed it away .. should we scale those down too ?  to whatever people think acceptable "jonin level" would be


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## Nighty the Mighty (Mar 20, 2014)

Fluttershy said:


> the amount of sheer wrong (from everyone) on this page hurts my virgin eyes
> 
> 
> 
> ...



don't play retard here flutter. 

the fact is the feats of not fast far, far, far outweigh the feats of fast.

because the feats of fast don't fucking exist, it's all scaling


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 20, 2014)

welcome to fiction, enjoy your stay  and never go full retard




> because the feats of fast don't fucking exist


except that one with the 5 digits in it


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## Sablés (Mar 20, 2014)

ur mum had 5 digits.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 20, 2014)

Stables, did you know the hivemind dropped imaginables for Xin x Imagine ?


what does that do to your self-esteem ?  can't even keep someone like magina


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## Sablés (Mar 20, 2014)

Who do you think told them? 

I shipped Imarco and Imaxin long before you children got on the wagon.


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## lokoxDZz (Mar 20, 2014)

This again? Naruto threads became the worst thing,since noone gonna revise the calcs this all only became a mess in a endless loop until someone does it


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 20, 2014)

@ Stables  does that mean you like threesomes and foursomes ?


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## Reznor (Mar 20, 2014)

Why can't you guy just give Velocity the calcs instead of going "hurrhurr someone already said the stuff"?



Mr. Black Leg said:


> Actually the tendency is to smaller things  be faster because with the same KE they move at different speeds .
> 
> Let's say a truck and a person . With X KE a truck would move X km/h but with the same KE the person would move 10X km/h .
> 
> Do you even physics ?


 Don't just through out some high school physics out of context to strawman other's arguments (After all, it was in reference to creatures of various sizes in terms of raw movement speed, not two objects with the same kinetic energy.)
If you want to go that route, at least argue square-cube law like a real man.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 20, 2014)

> Why can't you guy just give Velocity the calcs instead of going "hurrhurr someone already said the stuff"?


probably trying to preserve her sanity 


that is a semi-serious answer btw


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## Iwandesu (Mar 20, 2014)

Reznor said:


> Why can't you guy just give Velocity the calcs instead of going "hurrhurr someone already said the stuff"?


It's that difficult to Google something?


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## OS (Mar 20, 2014)

wait, I think it should be noted that it should be a tie since if gai does beat saitama he dies too.


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## Reznor (Mar 20, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> It's that difficult to Google something?


Figuring out exactly what to google probably is, since the context was Gai's speed original. 

Was just linking it so hard?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 20, 2014)

> Was just linking it so hard?


honestly, after the gazillionth time, it might be 


that's not Velocitys fault of course


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 20, 2014)

OS said:


> wait, I think it should be noted that it should be a tie since if gai does beat saitama he dies too.


we'll see exactly what the "consequences" of 8 gates are, soon, but yeah, might be


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 20, 2014)

Does not matter if Gai dies, if Saitama gets his head crushed first its his win.


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## Mexikorn (Mar 20, 2014)

i think either one of them can oneshot the other, both have ridicolous punches and gai's "dura" is "weakened" by the 8 gates. but i go with gai because speed


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## Atlantic Storm (Mar 22, 2014)

Velocity said:


> Oh come on... Where are the time frames? The distance travelled? This is a manga we're talking about where five second openings were considered to be too small for people to abuse without serious planning and preparation beforehand... And I'm supposed to buy that now everyone runs around so fast that they're almost approaching 3% of the speed of light? That's absurd.



It's not so unreasonable, I think. By itself, based on feats from the manga alone, I also think it's a bit silly since Mach 24,000 is, well, really really fast. Gai is really fast, but for a poster who has only debated in the Naruto Battledome where comparison in speed between characters is easy, those numbers don't really process well with me. But for the OBD, where comparisons are made across different mediums and fictions, a uniformed standard is needed, which is why the calcs are done.


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## War With Words (Mar 23, 2014)

Guy's nowhere near mach 24000 that much is obvious. He's also not exaton anything. Guy also has no durability feats of note. Saitama punching the meteor is a better feat than everyone in Naruto so far, including Guy. So he wins.


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## HeavyMetalThunder (Mar 23, 2014)

> Saitama punching the meteor is a better feat than everyone in Naruto so far



Calling bullshit on that. A whole lot of bullshit. Are you even up to date with Naruto? Are you aware of the crazy shit they did during the war arc?


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## Lurko (Mar 23, 2014)

HeavyMetalThunder said:


> Calling bullshit on that. A whole lot of bullshit. Are you even up to date with Naruto? Are you aware of the crazy shit they did during the war arc?



Ignore him bro people just find it hard to believe how strong Naruto has come.


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## Iwandesu (Mar 23, 2014)

War With Words said:


> Guy's nowhere near mach 24000 that much is obvious. He's also not exaton anything. Guy also has no durability feats of note. Saitama punching the meteor is a better feat than everyone in Naruto so far, including Guy. So he wins.


Are you a troll or just a petulant newbie? 
i even showed bjd calc right above. (also we have even petaton shit since madara meteor) 
Juubi, juubi jins and now guy gets the 24.000 calc.


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## Lurko (Mar 23, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> Are you a troll or just a petulant newbie?
> i even showed bjd calc right above. (also we have even petaton shit since madara meteor)
> Juubi, juubi jins and now guy gets the 24.000 calc.



I seriously don't get why people don't get it after what rs did on his death bed after extracting the Jubbi from his body.


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## Iwandesu (Mar 23, 2014)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> I seriously don't get why people don't get it after what rs did on his death bed after extracting the Jubbi from his body.


"Why would a dying old man creating the moon be impressive,  when saitama  did punch through a fucking meteor"


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## Nighty the Mighty (Mar 23, 2014)

> Juubi, juubi jins and now guy gets the 24.000 calc.



nope.jpg         .


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## Mr. Black Leg (Mar 23, 2014)

War With Words said:


> Guy's nowhere near mach 24000 that much is obvious. He's also not exaton anything. Guy also has no durability feats of note. Saitama punching the meteor is a better feat than everyone in Naruto so far, including Guy. So he wins.



I was actually going to reply, but after the "Saitama punching meteor is a better feat than everyone in Nardo so far " thing I realized he's not going by OBD rules .


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 23, 2014)

Nightbringer said:


> nope.jpg         .


yep.jpg

see calc



then again, given the whole Avengers/Xmen/QS rights thing, i'm not sure your reading comprehension is up to the task anymore


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## LoveLessNHK (Mar 23, 2014)




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## Nighty the Mighty (Mar 23, 2014)

flutter shut up.

there is no argument aside from "it just is" to suggest the mach 24k scales to Gai like you're suggesting


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## B Rabbit (Mar 23, 2014)

Pretty much.

I'm all for throwing 24k out. Seriously its retarded to many variables. Outliers here n there.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Mar 23, 2014)

> flutter shut up.


+1              .


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 24, 2014)

Nightbringer said:


> flutter shut up.
> 
> there is no argument aside from "it just is" to suggest the mach 24k scales to Gai like you're suggesting


maybe if you're blind 


and lel at B rabbit and zenath barking


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## Nighty the Mighty (Mar 24, 2014)

at this point the only person of any notable "standing" who still believes it is you.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 24, 2014)

plugging your ears and going "lalalala nope" doesn't make it go away 


P. S. Waka seemed to agree to the Gai (well, anyone should be able to see that Gai was faster then Juudara) as well as the combat speed scaling as well


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## Lurko (Mar 24, 2014)

Guy is faster than Madara, why wouldn't he get it?


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## Nighty the Mighty (Mar 24, 2014)

>astral hero has abandoned you

wow you're really in the wrong here


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## HeavyMetalThunder (Mar 24, 2014)

Why would the speed of the attack be scaled to them when nobody reacted to it, again?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 24, 2014)

> Why would the speed of the attack be scaled to them when nobody reacted to it, again?


there have been plenty of reactions to their own attacks from the Juubi-jins, not to mention that the reactions are necessary in the first place to control the attacks

as well, evidence suggests jins physical combat speed is > their attacks speed .. and combat speed kind of comes together with reactions by default

it's all in the blog btw 



8G Gai > jins speed > jins attacks speed >= V2 anorexic juubis attacks speed

^ easiest scaling of Flutters life


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## ZenithXAbyss (Mar 24, 2014)

> 8G Gai > jins speed > jins attacks speed >= V2 anorexic juubis attacks speed


But it's much easier to just throw something wildly than to actively control its every movement with your reactions.


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## Chad (Mar 24, 2014)

So Madara swinging his arm gets 24k scaling even though they aren't the same attack?


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## Nighty the Mighty (Mar 24, 2014)

Fluttershy said:


> there have been plenty of reactions to their own attacks from the Juubi-jins, not to mention that the reactions are necessary in the first place to control the attacks
> 
> as well, evidence suggests jins physical combat speed is > their attacks speed .. and combat speed kind of comes together with reactions by default
> 
> ...



prove that the black balls are as fast or faster than the bijuudama you nitwit


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## ZenithXAbyss (Mar 24, 2014)

Flutter, you have nowhere to run.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 24, 2014)

Astral said:


> So Madara swinging his arm gets 24k scaling even though they aren't the same attack?


he gets it because manga shows us it's faster then his other attacks (which we have a speed for)  the blog explains that as well 





Nightbringer said:


> prove that the black balls are as fast or faster than the bijuudama you nitwit


juubi-jins are > anorexic juubi (has been shown and stated) .. thus, juubi-jins attacks are > anorexic juubis attacks .. actually it's more like jins > buff Juubi > anorexic juubi

if you can't comprehend this bit of OBDing logic/scaling, then we're done here


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## Nighty the Mighty (Mar 24, 2014)

the black balls are completely different techs that work in a completely different manner.

you're a fucking moron flutter.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 24, 2014)

i'm sorry you feel that way


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## Nighty the Mighty (Mar 24, 2014)

one of them is controlled i.e requires reactions and the other is a projectile.

I'm sorry you can't comprehend such a closed case


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## Chad (Mar 24, 2014)

^

I guess going by Flutters logic, KCM Naruto has 24k+ chakra arm speed since Nardo could do that before Derp Juubito could fully extend his jinton through his stigmata. 

That would also mean that Edo Itachi is 24k


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 24, 2014)

they're both projectiles, only one of them can be ~recalled back after it flies those 70m or whatever due to jins having far better control and powers then the mindless juubi


doesn't matter about the details though, it still gets scaled from an attack of an inferior character


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 24, 2014)

Astral said:


> ^
> 
> I guess going by Flutters logic, KCM Naruto has 24k+ chakra arm speed since Nardo could do that before *Derp* Juubito could fully extend his jinton through his stigmata.
> 
> That would also mean that Edo Itachi is 24k


I guess Deathstroke is MFTL+ then 


also, the bolded (aka lack of control) kind of puts a hole in your logic there too


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## Chad (Mar 24, 2014)

I thought you also included mindless Juubido in your updated blog. 


			
				Pony Hero said:
			
		

> *any* juubi-jin are >= the incomplete V2 Juubi


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## ZenithXAbyss (Mar 24, 2014)

Fluttershy said:


> they're both projectiles, only one of them can be ~recalled back after it flies those 70m or whatever due to jins having far better control and powers then the mindless juubi
> 
> 
> doesn't matter about the details though, it still gets scaled from an attack of an inferior character


No.
One is controlled by his reactions, ergo dependent on his reactions.
While the other is thrown as a projectile.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 24, 2014)

Juubi didn't physically throw anything lolzenath, this ain't one of your baseball fantasies 

they both just launch chakra balls 





Astral said:


> I thought you also included mindless Juubido in your updated blog.


semantics 

we can exclude mindless jew to be safe


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 24, 2014)

though it doesn't really matter if it's a ball or not

for example if either V2 Juub or the jins happened to use a ~beamu like the V1 did, then the beams speed would get scaled as well


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## ZenithXAbyss (Mar 24, 2014)

Fluttershy said:


> Juubi didn't physically throw anything lolzenath, this ain't one of your baseball fantasies
> 
> they both just launch chakra balls
> 
> ...



Keep telling that yourself.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 24, 2014)

I do


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## ZenithXAbyss (Mar 24, 2014)

I mean, it's completely logical that a controlled object is as fast as a thrown object right?


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## ZenithXAbyss (Mar 24, 2014)

Fluttershy said:


> I do


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## ZenithXAbyss (Mar 24, 2014)

Burden of proof is not needed anymore.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 24, 2014)

powerscaling isn't a thing either it seems 

or is that just in Nardo/HST


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 24, 2014)

Astral, the *only* thing you support is RHs legacy


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## ZenithXAbyss (Mar 24, 2014)

Fluttershy said:


> powerscaling isn't a thing either it seems
> 
> or is that just in Nardo/HST



Dat strawman.
Obviously you can scale its speed to something that is of the same principle.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Mar 24, 2014)

on panel feats>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>infinitely more of these>>>> powerscaling

inb4 deathstroke example

comics are not manga, you cannot compare them in that manner.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Mar 24, 2014)

Powerscaling is shit in nardo anyway(for the most part).


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 24, 2014)

> comics are not manga, you cannot compare them in that manner.


double standarts 

though, having seen your track record with the comics industry I shouldn't be surprised


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## Nighty the Mighty (Mar 24, 2014)

it's not a double standard.

Naruto is a manga written by a single man with a supposedly consistent vision for his characters and the direction of the story.

Comics are written by multiple people in a much looser narrative structure and a much less established vision of character power levels.

Plus that feat is an outlier, Deathstoke has an established level at which FTL is obviously incorrect.

Here the feats are far too voluminous to be outliers, the feats for it being that fast, which as far as I know don't actually exist, are outweighed by the feats for it not being that fast, i.e Gaara reacting to them, Kakashi reacting to them, Lee outrunning them, Lee throwing a kunai faster than them, Kakashi throwing a kunai faster than them, Minato porting in and porting out, which would require him to react twice from what appeared to be much less than even a meter and those are only from the last few chapters.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 24, 2014)

none of that matters

same standarts for all


unless you seriously think a god-tier like Juudara is only as fast as Lee .. which would be "funny" even by itself, but especially so considering he also blitzed SM Minato and before that Juubito blitzed 2 edohokages

+ Minato reacted to Juubis BB before as well


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## Nighty the Mighty (Mar 24, 2014)

that's retarded.

I don't apply the same standards to a small child as I do to an adult. Things are as always treated on a case by case basis, and the case here is that you have no leg to stand on.

What I think is that whatever Juudara is, you have no way to prove it's Mach 24k, because the only method you have, the black balls, is wildly "inconsistent" (actually it is consistently not that fast but whatever).

What it comes down to is this flutter.

1. On panel feats and evidence suggests they are not that fast.
2. There is no real reason to even scale them to that speed in the first place considering the wide disparity in tech type and use

Also burden of proof  is on you to prove, not us to disprove, which we have more than accomplished at this point.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 24, 2014)

regardless, I really should be doing stuff right now and this will certainly go nowhere if you're even willing to separate fictions like that 


hopefully Waka might drop by later and mention stuff I might've missed here, he has a better memory for every little thing that ever happened in Nardo


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## Nighty the Mighty (Mar 24, 2014)

concession accepted


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 24, 2014)

also, the Juubis BB were never portrayed as "that (omgwtf) fast" either, despite being calced to Mach 24000 

tbh your argument would _sort of_ make more sense if you just claimed M-24000 as a straight outlier for being "too high"/"not making sense" and such .. would still be wrong of course, but, well 




> concession accepted


that's cute  .. now lets wait for the next thread where 8G Gai blitzes 







last post, I hope


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## Nighty the Mighty (Mar 24, 2014)

That doesn't matter, although actually iirc kakashi said he wouldn't be able to kamui them in time or something along those lines, can't remember exactly. Further, nobody was able to do anything to get out of the way or intercept them over a distance of tens of thousands of kilometres.

I didn't claim anything like that so why would you mention it?


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## ZenithXAbyss (Mar 24, 2014)

> also, the Juubis BB were never portrayed as "that (omgwtf) fast" either, despite being calced to Mach 24000


Despite the fact that the people in the hq know that they can not dodge the bb even though the distance is large.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 24, 2014)

so, not the last post  at least it's a sorta different topic





> he wouldn't be able to kamui them in time


because they're too big/*much* more mass

the rock guy was able to redirect the aim btw .. later Minato FTGed one away





> Further, nobody was able to do anything to intercept them over a distance of tens of thousands of kilometres.


how would they intercept them high in the air ? they can't .. the hokages weren't even there at the time



> to get out of the way


huge AoE .. that should be really obvious


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## ZenithXAbyss (Mar 24, 2014)

> too little time + huge AoE .. that should be really obvious


Doesn't that mean that it is fast? Lolflutter.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 24, 2014)

the AoE part is more important there, lolzenath

they had a bit of time, they just elected to use it differently on account of not being able to escape the AoE anyway



good job ignoring the rest though


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## ZenithXAbyss (Mar 24, 2014)

Just Stahp, lol flutter.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 24, 2014)

you guys are kind of making out the incomplete anorexic Juubi to be the sole god-tier on account of only it having Mach 24000 

that's sort of hilarious


I wonder how you scale the speed of Prime Juubi or RS/jin RS


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## Chad (Mar 24, 2014)

Tbh this panel would be more accurate in scaling the distance from Jewbi to HQ, rather than the loldistance from kages to tree.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 24, 2014)

went from talking about the jins scaling, to juubi itself, to the calc now .. i see a pattern


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## Chad (Mar 24, 2014)

You're denying the fact that the panel shows the literal distance form Juubi to HQ? 

I mean the result would still be sub-relativistic, just a little lower.


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## tkpirate (Mar 24, 2014)

even if the Onmyouton isn't mach 24k,shouldn't Madara have mach 24k reaction anyway,because juubi jins>incomplete juubi?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 24, 2014)

Astral said:


> You're denying the fact that the panel shows the literal distance form Juubi to HQ?


it doesn't show it clearly and in a way that can be calced easily (aka not a top down view like the map) .. plus, you don't know how big exactly the explosion is at that precise instant


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## Piecesis (Mar 24, 2014)

Should just wait for what waka thinks. 

He's the most reasonable Naruto fan poster that doesn't wank.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 24, 2014)

Piecesis said:


> Should just wait for what waka thinks.
> 
> He's the most reasonable Naruto fan poster that doesn't wank.


Waka-ism


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## Chad (Mar 24, 2014)

Fluttershy said:


> it doesn't show it clearly and in a way that can be calced easily (aka not a top down view like the map) .. plus, you don't know how big exactly the explosion is at that precise instant



Instead of countering this post, I think I'm just going to do a quick Juubi calc.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Mar 24, 2014)

> it doesn't show it clearly and in a way that can be calced easily (aka not a top down view like the map) .. plus, you don't know how big exactly the explosion is at that precise instant


it's as big as the first one.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Mar 24, 2014)

Fluttershy said:


> because they're too big/*much* more mass



>implying





> the rock guy was able to redirect the aim btw .. later Minato FTGed one away



being able to redirect the aim is completely irrelevant, the bijuudama have an unknown charge time that has nothing to do with Mach 24k reactions.



> how would they intercept them high in the air ? they can't .. the hokages weren't even there at the time



With the aforementioned kamui, doton walls, any number of things, there were litterally thousands of people standing there, if the Bijuudama weren't god tier fast someone would have been able to do something. Not that this point even matters, whether or not the Bijuudama are portrayed as fast has no bearing on how they scale.



Fluttershy said:


> you guys are kind of making out the incomplete anorexic Juubi to be the sole god-tier on account of only it having Mach 24000
> 
> that's sort of hilarious
> 
> ...



scans of juubi reacting to it's own bijuudama? As far as I'm concerned nobody gets that scaling.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 24, 2014)

> As far as I'm concerned nobody gets that scaling.


cool, Lee-level RS then 




> it's as big as the first one.


prove it 





> With the aforementioned kamui, doton walls, any number of things, there were litterally thousands of people standing there, if the Bijuudama weren't god tier fast someone would have been able to do something.


now who's writing the fanfic

lel





> being able to redirect the aim is completely irrelevant, the bijuudama have an unknown charge time that has nothing to do with Mach 24k reactions.


it had to have been done either at the very last instant or when it just began to leave its mouth .. otherwise, it would still have time left to simply reaim it where it was aimed originally (by tilting its head down)

also Minato got in front of and FTGed one that was already flying (the giant one)





> has no bearing on how they scale.


I agree with this .. it's self-explanatory that it scales to anyone who is >= anorexic Juubi like these things do in other fictions


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## ZenithXAbyss (Mar 24, 2014)

> also Minato got in front of and FTGed one that was already flying (the giant one)


fgt is instant + the distance.


> prove it


^ (use bro), there are two panels showing the size of the ball, and considering that it's power correlates with its size, then yes.
it's going to be just as powerful as the first one.
don't pull this shit now.



> cool, Lee-level RS then


by the virtue of how the obd operates, prime whitebeard is just as strong as old whitebeard. lolflutter.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 24, 2014)

> fgt is instant + the distance.


lol, the distance Minato had to cover was pretty big and the FTG point is irrelevant, it was plainly shown that the hokages needed to get to the battlefield on foot (Minato got there first), obviously Minato had no marks/kunais that were already there


he basically ran/shunshined in front of the flying bomb at the last possible instant, made his barrier thing and FTGed it away


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## ZenithXAbyss (Mar 24, 2014)

> lol, the distance Minato had to cover was pretty big and the FTG point is irrelevant, it was plainly shown that the hokages needed to get to the battlefield on foot (Minato got there first), obviously Minato had no marks/kunais that were already there
> 
> 
> he basically ran/shunshined in front of the flying bomb at the last possible instant, made his barrier thing and FTGed it away


minato is clearly ftl.
\/


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 24, 2014)

lolzenath intensifies

although, you wank him, you should be happy 



*Spoiler*: __ 



with that he could beat Itachi


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## Nighty the Mighty (Mar 24, 2014)

> cool, Lee-level RS then



correct. 



> it had to have been done either at the very last instant or when it just began to leave its mouth .. otherwise, it would still have time left to simply reaim it where it was aimed originally (by tilting its head down)
> 
> also Minato got in front of and FTGed one that was already flying (the giant one)



No because the juubi is literally mentally retarded. Also the scans show us him tilting the juubi before the bomb fires.

also scans of minato?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 24, 2014)

Juubi is retarded, but was being controlled and directed by the "Big Bads"



> Also the scans show us him tilting the juubi before the bomb fires.


obviously (after would have been too late), but it can't be "too before", else they'd have made it reaim


and I don't remember the Minato chapter number and cannot start browsing the whole arc right now here

you found the scan in post #144 just fine, find this too


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## LazyWaka (Mar 24, 2014)

Don't feel like reading through the last couple pages. Whats currently being argued?


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## shade0180 (Mar 24, 2014)

Mach 24k speed scaling to gai.  also why is it not considered outlier? well that's what they are talking about I guess


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## Iwandesu (Mar 24, 2014)

LazyWaka said:


> Don't feel like reading through the last couple pages. Whats currently being argued?


If we can really say juubi and anyone can get the bjd 24k calc


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## LazyWaka (Mar 24, 2014)

Its not considered an outlier cause Juubi is a god tier.

And why wouldn't Gai get it? Gai > Juubidara > Juubi. Clearly Kakashi and co reacting to it is the outlier when fucking BSM Naruto, whom is handily faster than them, is getting casually danced around by a weaker Juubi Jin.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 24, 2014)

there's still hope left for humanity


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## shade0180 (Mar 24, 2014)

also why it is getting scaled to reaction since nobody reacted to it or something which dartg pointed out...  I don't really care for this though.


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## Iwandesu (Mar 24, 2014)

LazyWaka said:


> Its not considered an outlier cause Juubi is a god tier.
> 
> And why wouldn't Gai get it? Gai > Juubidara > Juubi. Clearly Kakashi and co reacting to it is the outlier when fucking BSM Naruto, whom is handily faster than them, is getting casually danced around by a weaker Juubi Jin.


3 pages of regulars banging flutter-chin 
It was somewhat corning.


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## LazyWaka (Mar 24, 2014)

Seriously, if I'm reading peoples arguments right, 8 gated gai > gated lee > Juubidara = Kakashi. Serisously, are you fucking kidding me?


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## LazyWaka (Mar 24, 2014)

shade0180 said:


> also why it is getting scaled to reaction since nobody reacted to it or something which dartg pointed out...  I don't really care for this though.



Cause Juubito was able to react to his own attacks.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 24, 2014)

> 3 pages of regulars banging flutter-chin


Dartg and zenath are cancer "regulars" at best


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 24, 2014)

there's also the whole deal with manga showing us a few times that their physical combat speed is >= their other attacks

Minato especially learned that the hard way


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## Iwandesu (Mar 24, 2014)

Fluttershy said:


> there's also the whole deal with manga showing us a few times that their physical combat speed is >= their other attacks
> Minato especially learned that the hard way


Pretty much.  Just was shocked 
You go to College for exams and when you come back naruto verse is no more 24k
Almost the same of obd death 
Ignoring sennin Mode and tobirama teleport should be hype enough


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## LineageCold (Mar 24, 2014)

A few naruto character's did in fact reacted to the jubi max bb(how did we forgot about this?) 

As we can see here full release buiju bee not only matched the jubi's bb speed with his BB's , he was also able to
Blitz/cross dozens of meter's in time to intercept the bb.(I don't know if this one is legit, but who know's , kishi thinks he's fast enough 
But meh)




One may argue LolFoddersDotonStopTheJubi'SBB, but anyone one with a strand of common sense know's a simple rock doton can't even in the slightest slow down kyubi's max bb , let alone slow down a attack on the Jubidama caliber, although they might be able to if there were amped up with kyubi's chakra (but that's still iffy)

And for the next one, minato was not only able to react from meters away but also was able to shushin in between bee & intercepted the jubi's bb, made the FTG handseals & setup 3 kunai's almost in the same timeframe. Although these were intended speed feats'(mostly on minato's part) it's still iffy in obd because of the 24k calc  .





Note: I'm not arguing minato & full release bee = >jubidama speed (although in kishi head he clearly thinks it) but I'm dumbfounded on the fact that a top/god tier like the jubi jin can't repilcate what minato did (but more consistently) iirc hashi reacted & redirected one but I can be wrong 

Heck the jubi jins has been consistent since arrived , blitzing the hokages left & right 
And also blitzing BM minato (iirc)

Edit: never mind ignore this post for now


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## Delsin (Mar 24, 2014)

Delsin said:


> ^ (use bro)     .



Words of truth.


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## LazyWaka (Mar 24, 2014)

How do you get negative posts?


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## Lurko (Mar 24, 2014)

Soo much butthurt here guys get back to the original thread,  if you have a problem take it to the blogs.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Mar 24, 2014)

Guy > Juudara > Juubito . I don't see why Guy would not Mach 24k .

At least for a peak moment Guy > Juudara . Juudara was not prepared to that and is probably way ahead of that .


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## trance (Mar 24, 2014)

Great more cancer. 

Saitama stomps....in quality.


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## Source (Mar 24, 2014)

LazyWaka said:


> Don't feel like reading through the last couple pages. Whats currently being argued?



Basically Nightbringer is arguing no one gets scaled to Mach 24k in light of recent events in the manga.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Mar 24, 2014)

Show me a scan of a dude reacting to a Juubidama from close enough to get the reactions pls.


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## Darth Niggatron (Mar 25, 2014)

I think it's pretty amazing that something as terrible as Naruto can cause this much butthurt.
In any other fiction, we'd have scaled Madara to mach 24k without any hesitation.
Anyway, 
?Naruto can outspeed his own BB. Why wouldn't Juubijins be able to outspeed BB's of a weaker character?
?Minato could react comfortably to the BB.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Mar 25, 2014)

^ I'm teen . And I care about physics, chemistry and explanations for everything he does .


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## Iwandesu (Mar 25, 2014)

LazyWaka said:


> Well, we wouldn't necessarily scale Madara himself to mach 24k, but we would certainly powerscale his attacks to it.


Then,  at this scenario is Gates lee faster than madara? 

*Spoiler*: __ 




*Spoiler*: __ 




*Spoiler*: __ 




*Spoiler*: __ 




*Spoiler*: __ 



ftl gaara all the way


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## LazyWaka (Mar 25, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> Then,  at this scenario is Gates lee faster than madara?
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



Nope.


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## Darth Niggatron (Mar 25, 2014)

Yea, Waka, we'd powerscale the black balls to mach 24k.
This debate is over anyway. Madara, and by extension, Gai, gets mach 24k short range attack speed.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 25, 2014)

> ^ I'm teen


really ?


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## Darth Niggatron (Mar 25, 2014)

You've gat a problem with that, m8?


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