# Ryu Hayabusa vs Sasuke



## HumanWine (Jun 13, 2008)

Ryu from Ninja Gaiden.
 Bloodlusted
No summons or genjutsu.
Ryu gets any weapons/skills from his games.

Can the saucechild win?


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## Aokiji (Jun 13, 2008)

I have seen Ryu cutting through helicopters.


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## BAD BD (Jun 13, 2008)

Aokiji said:


> I have seen Ryu cutting through helicopters.



Finding vid now. He also dodged a missile and bullets wile charging his attack.

[YOUTUBE]fCAhiojuPU4[/YOUTUBE]

All you need to know.


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## Tash (Jun 13, 2008)

Sasuke gets blitzed.


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## Aokiji (Jun 13, 2008)

^Kawarimi no Jutsu.


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## BAD BD (Jun 13, 2008)

Aokiji said:


> ^Kawarimi no Jutsu.



Solo demon army no jutsu.


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## The TUX (Jun 13, 2008)

Ryu. 






Hard.


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## HumanWine (Jun 14, 2008)

BAD BD said:


> Finding vid now. He also dodged a missile and bullets wile charging his attack.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]fCAhiojuPU4[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> All you need to know.


Dodging bullets? Where?

There is only shitty aiming and him flipping in mid-air. Unless he knew exactly were those bullets were going to be before he went into the air, he didnt dodge shit. All he did was jump in the air and rotate his body; the bullets and missles were already shooting, it doesnt that a bullet timer to avoid its path. He may or may not be a bullet timer but that vid proves nothing. Need moar


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## BAD BD (Jun 14, 2008)

HumanWine said:


> Dodging bullets? Where?
> 
> There is only shitty aiming and him flipping in mid-air. Unless he knew exactly were those bullets were going to be before he went into the air, he didnt dodge shit. All he did was jump in the air and rotate his body; the bullets and missles were already shooting, it doesnt that a bullet timer to avoid its path. He may or may not be a bullet timer but that vid proves nothing. Need moar



In the games he fights people with machine guns and doesn't die. He either tanks bullets or can dodge them.


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## Vault (Jun 14, 2008)

ryu rapes hard


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## Fang (Jun 14, 2008)

Ryu has also stomped on tanks before too. Mr. Avenger stands no chance against a real ninja like Ryu.


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## HumanWine (Jun 14, 2008)

BAD BD said:


> In the games he fights people with machine guns and doesn't die. He either tanks bullets or can dodge them.


its a rape then


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## Gorblax (Jun 15, 2008)

At the height of Sasuke and Ryu's abilities, I'd say their melee, fire, and electricity skills are more or less even- maybe Ryu is a little better in melee, maybe Sasuke in electricity. However, Ryu also has ice and a ton of weapons going for him. It's basically like Sasuke is fighting a Kakashi-like ninja with Haku and Tenten's abilities built in, as well as his own. I give it to Ryu.


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## skiboydoggy (Jun 15, 2008)

Ryu whips out the True Dragon Sword.
Sasuke dies from awesome. His puny Chidori-blade has nothing on it!

Seriously though, this is the guy who decided: Fuck guns, I'mma using mah bow because mah bow has stealth!


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## Blue (Jun 15, 2008)

I am Hayabusa's biggest fantard and I'm not that big on Sasuke and even I know Sasuke rapes this. Hayabusa can't jump hundreds of meters (only dozens) is ridiculously slower than Sasuke and his ninjutsu is pathetic compared to Sasuke.

Add in Sharingan and Sasuke solos the entire fucking Hayabusa clan.

Get the fuck over the Anti-Naruto shit, OBD.


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## ?_Camorra_? (Jun 15, 2008)

Wank thread fails lol  Using the imaginary excuse that the narutoverse can't tank bullets and twisting Kishimoto's words from an old interview  Show me scans where he says exactly that they can't


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## Morpheus (Jun 15, 2008)

It's up to you to prove to him that they can.


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## -18 (Jun 15, 2008)

Ryu Hayabusa wins


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## skiboydoggy (Jun 15, 2008)

Blue said:


> I am Hayabusa's biggest fantard and I'm not that big on Sasuke and even I know Sasuke rapes this. Hayabusa can't jump hundreds of meters (only dozens)
> 
> *I recall not an instance where Sasuke jumps hundreds of metres in the air.*
> 
> ...



Sharingan has a fatal weakness that if the guy is moving too well for you, you fail hard against his ownage. Ryu Hayabusa's not going to get hurt by Sasuke, and sooner or later Sasuke falters and gets hit by True Dragon Sword. Hell, since Sasuke enjoys starting the battle with his sword, the True Dragon Sword ends it in the first parry.


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## Blue (Jun 15, 2008)

skiboydoggy said:


> Sharingan has a fatal weakness that if the guy is moving too well for you, you fail hard against his ownage. Ryu Hayabusa's not going to get hurt by Sasuke, and sooner or later Sasuke falters and gets hit by True Dragon Sword. Hell, since Sasuke enjoys starting the battle with his sword, the True Dragon Sword ends it in the first parry.



Sharingan only fails if it's only two-tomoe and if the opponent moves faster than the Sharingan user can react.

1. Sasuke has a Mangekyou now
2. Sasuke is disgustingly, ridiculously, not debatably faster than Hayabusa

And Sasuke would probably one-shot Hayabusa with his fist. Never mind Kusanagi. 

Hayabusa is supposed to be sort of real-world human. Sasuke is not by any stretch of the imagination anything close to real-world. 

Thread fails. 

But will probably get to 100 posts anyway because people are fucking stupid.


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## Sylar (Jun 15, 2008)

Blue said:


> Sharingan only fails if it's only two-tomoe and if the opponent moves faster than the Sharingan user can react.
> 
> 1. Sasuke has a Mangekyou now
> 2. Sasuke is disgustingly, ridiculously, not debatably faster than Hayabusa
> ...



Gotta love irony.


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## skiboydoggy (Jun 15, 2008)

Blue said:


> Sharingan only fails if it's only two-tomoe and if the opponent moves faster than the Sharingan user can react.
> 
> *Wow, so now Sasuke's body automatically matches the speeds of whoever he's looking at regardless? Let me ask you this, could Sasuke tag the Flash moving at full speeds?*
> 
> ...



Lol, already addressed.


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## Tash (Jun 15, 2008)

lol                          .


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## Blue (Jun 15, 2008)

> Wow, so now Sasuke's body automatically matches the speeds of whoever he's looking at regardless? Let me ask you this, could Sasuke tag the Flash moving at full speeds?


Sharingan predicts future actions. So... theoretically, yes, he could. 
In reality, no, that would be like saying Wolverine beats Goku because Wolverine can't die. 
But Hayabusa is nothing.



> Speed is different from technique. Ryu would easily catch Sasuke in a movement which leaves him no room to dodge, Sharingan or no Sharingan.


Technique is different from speed. Sasuke would easily catch Ryu in a movement which leaves him no room to dodge, technique or no technique.

Do you see how that statement was completely useless?



> You mean the Ryu that gets hit by automatic-fire and survives. You mean the Ryu that takes down helicopters with a bow. You mean the Ryu that is not at all slowed down by cattle-prods. You mean the Ryu that is killing demons. First of all, Sasuke's punch would taste a parry from the True Dragon Sword, which would detach Sasuke's fist easily.


Gameplay much?
Those same guys that hit him with automatic fire take several slashes from a sword that cuts metal easily to die. And that helicopter takes about 30 arrows in gameplay. If I had exploding armor-piercing discarding sabot flechette arrows, I could pwn a helicopter in 30 hits, too. 

I mean, seriously, I have NO idea how to explain how badly Ryu loses here because you should know it already.

Get this: A dude (Naruto) who can leave a battle, grab a log, transform said log into a copy of himself, get back to the battle and leave the copy in his place, and then leave again... without anyone seeing him... is unable to manage Sasuke's speed.

And people faster than him (Yamato) and more perceptive than him (Sakura) were equally unable to perceive him. 

And then there was the time Sasuke ran a decathlon inside an exploding nuclear-yield bomb.

Hayabusa has not once ever moved outside visual detection speeds. 
What this effectively means is that Hayabusa gets speedblitzed without a single doubt in the world. You CANNOT ARGUE. Seriously. Jesus.


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## skiboydoggy (Jun 15, 2008)

Blue said:


> Sharingan predicts future actions. So... theoretically, yes, he could.
> In reality, no, that would be like saying Wolverine beats Goku because Wolverine can't die.
> But Hayabusa is nothing.



You just proved my point exactly. Sharingan is not infallible.



> Technique is different from speed. Sasuke would easily catch Ryu in a movement which leaves him no room to dodge, technique or no technique.
> 
> Do you see how that statement was completely useless?



At least Ryu has proof to back said technique claim up, no? In any case, Sasuke gets owned in his first attempt to hit Ryu because his sword shattered and he dislocated his arm trying to break the True Dragon Sword.



> Gameplay much?
> Those same guys that hit him with automatic fire take several slashes from a sword that cuts metal easily to die. And that helicopter takes about 30 arrows in gameplay. If I had exploding armor-piercing discarding sabot flechette arrows, I could pwn a helicopter in 30 hits, too.



Your point? They're 1337ninjas too then. There's nothing disproving that. The fact still remains that Ryu Hayabusa > Guns, and Guns > Narutoverse.



> I mean, seriously, I have NO idea how to explain how badly Ryu loses here because you should know it already.



You mean Ryu > Guns > Narutoverse?



> Get this: A dude (Naruto) who can leave a battle, grab a log, transform said log into a copy of himself, get back to the battle and leave the copy in his place, and then leave again... without anyone seeing him... is unable to manage Sasuke's speed.



This fails because nobody knows the actual mechanics behind Kawarimi, ninja far slower in other continuities can pull it off as well, and last I checked, Naruto is completely incapable of basic Academy level techniques.



> And people faster than him (Yamato) and more perceptive than him (Sakura) were equally unable to perceive him.
> 
> And then there was the time Sasuke ran a decathlon inside an exploding nuclear-yield bomb.
> 
> ...



Outside visual detection speeds? I thought that has been pretty much proven to be a complete failure of an argument. I would be pretty damn pissed if my Ryu Hayabusa kept disappearing off the screen, get what I mean? Luffy's movements have not been beyond visual detection last time I checked, and it was proven beyond a doubt that Luffy is vastly faster than the Narutoverse.

Besides, speedblitz argument has no value in the face of a man who faces guns every day and decides to stick with his sword because of fucking ammo and stealth. He blocks, Sasuke dislocates something because the True Dragon Sword is made of win.


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## Blue (Jun 15, 2008)

(Sigh) Whatever. I fucking love Ninja Gaiden and DOA and I think this is a stomp. Hayabusa losing to shounen characters does not make him a bad character. It makes him semi-realistic and win.

But for some reason you want to come in with selective gameplay shit and baseless statements to make him win.


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## skiboydoggy (Jun 15, 2008)

Actually, my basis for Ryu's win is that one block with True Dragon Sword = Crippled Sasuke.


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## Blue (Jun 15, 2008)

skiboydoggy said:


> Actually, my basis for Ryu's win is that one block with True Dragon Sword = Crippled Sasuke.



Why? The Dragon sword isn't magical much; just indestructible and really really sharp.

Not unlike the Kusanagi really.


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## skiboydoggy (Jun 15, 2008)

I remember not when the sword Sasuke used was referred to as the Kusanagi.


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## Sylar (Jun 15, 2008)

Seriously Blue you really think that Sasuke is goint to take down a guy who fights through modern soldiers and takes down choppers with a f#cking bow?


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## Blue (Jun 15, 2008)

Sylar said:


> Seriously Blue you really think that Sasuke is goint to take down a guy who fights through modern soldiers and takes down choppers with a f#cking bow?



You've got this weird idea that anyone with a gun is going to own anyone without one. Even in real life that's not always the case; it's the reason pistols and submachine guns are issued, to avoid being rushed before you can bring your rifle to bear. Then you have bayonets on rifles for the same reason.

Multiply someone's speed by an order of magnitude and guns stop being a killjoy for melee fighters. 

Go further and get someone who can move at jet airplane speeds in close quarters and guns are suddenly largely useless, which is the basis behind my thoughts that Brutes can't take Sasuke.

And taking out a chopper with the kind of arrows Hayabusa has isn't that incredible. They're thin tank shells.
Plus if you want to go into gameplay (you shouldn't) it takes him a couple dozen hits.


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## skiboydoggy (Jun 15, 2008)

Hasn't Kishimoto explicitly stated that guns > his ninjas?

And I demand proof that Sasuke moves at jet speeds.


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## Yak (Jun 15, 2008)

Lol. Sharingan is fucking shit. By no means it equals precognition, it at best lets you anticipate moves in tenths of seconds in advance, which isn't really much of an advantage for Sasuke in this battle. Any decent fighter on Ryu's level would be capable to fuck with it by using feints.


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## BAD BD (Jun 15, 2008)

The games are the canon. Ryu tanks bullets or is a bullet timer. And is the best unarmed martial artist in the world. With a weapon he is stronger.


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## Sasaki Kojirō (Jun 15, 2008)

Yak said:


> Lol. Sharingan is fucking shit. By no means it equals precognition, it at best lets you anticipate moves in tenths of seconds in advance, which isn't really much of an advantage for Sasuke in this battle. Any decent fighter on Ryu's level would be capable to fuck with it by using feints.



That's not true, it does give limited pre-cognition, and certainly wouldn't be fooled by feints...It means he knows where you're going before you do, including feints.  That doesn't mean it could get out of overpowering techniques or outmaneuver someone who's much faster than him though.

anyway I've only only played the Nintendo games so i won't comment on this...pretty sure Ryu wins though based on some cutscenes I've seen.

Edit- yeah...he definitely wins..


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## BAD BD (Jun 15, 2008)

Ryu kills a demon who solo'ed the military capital of the world.


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## skiboydoggy (Jun 15, 2008)

BAD BD said:


> The games are the canon. Ryu tanks bullets or is a bullet timer. And is the best unarmed martial artist in the world. With a weapon he is stronger.



I'm actually going to stand by him being a casual bullet-timer, rarely if ever getting hit in the entirety of the game by canon standards. Of course, it would become even easier if he is a casual bullet timer and a bullet tanker at the same time, but meh.


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## Blue (Jun 15, 2008)

BAD BD said:


> The games are the canon. Ryu tanks bullets or is a bullet timer. And is the best unarmed martial artist in the world. With a weapon he is stronger.



Of course they're canon; there is no other aspect. But the Starcraft game is Starcraft canon and you don't see marines tanking Battlecruiser lasers in the cutscenes, do you?

Gameplay makes certain assumptions about the level of the player. That is to say; we're shit compared to how Hayabusa could control himself. Therefore to avoid making us flip out over the one-hit kills, Hayabusa can tank more damage than you'd otherwise expect.

I'm playing NG 2 right now. There's a cutscene where Hayabusa cuts a werewolf clean in half with one blow. Can you do that in-game? No fucking way. You have to hack and slash quite a bit.

Going by the cutscenes and making reasonable assumptions from gameplay, Hayabusa has zero chance versus Sasuke. In fact even with gameplay he has zero chance.


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## Fang (Jun 15, 2008)

There is always a thread involving a Sharingan User with some bull cop-out claim that the Sharingan allows for total and invulnerable predication of their enemies movement and attacks.


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## skiboydoggy (Jun 15, 2008)

Blue said:


> Of course they're canon; there is no other aspect. But the Starcraft game is Starcraft canon and you don't see marines tanking Battlecruiser lasers in the cutscenes, do you?
> 
> Gameplay makes certain assumptions about the level of the player. That is to say; we're shit compared to how Hayabusa could control himself. Therefore to avoid making us flip out over the one-hit kills, Hayabusa can tank more damage than you'd otherwise expect.
> 
> ...



Therefore, in conclusion, Ryu is a casual bullet-timer. Narutoverse has not shown anything to that standard. Ryu wins.


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## Yak (Jun 15, 2008)

Blue, what exactly is it - aside from the Sharingan crap argument that can be dismantled rather easily - that makes Sasuke so much superior to Ryu that Hayabusa doesn't stand a ghost of a chance as you claim? He is not faster, he doesn't just much farther, his cutting power is at best equal if not inferior to Hayabusa, genjutsu is off and the other elemental attacks Sasuke can use equal Hayabusa's at best. So, what is it. I hope you can make a good point rather than just saying that the OBD is generally anti-Naruto-verse and therefore Sasuke wins. 

Seriously, taking all cutscenes from Ninja-Gaiden AND Dead Or Alive into account, I see absolutely nothing that makes Sasuke so endlessly superior.


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## Tash (Jun 15, 2008)

Equal is giving Sasuke way too much credit. So far he has managed to cut wood (lol), clay (lol), and a bit of iron (better but still lol). Ryu hacks through helicopters. The difference is clear.


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## BAD BD (Jun 15, 2008)

Laser Sword and Tank Shell arrows win this easily.


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## Vault (Jun 15, 2008)

lol at this epic thread  

its really funny how some thing sauce has a chance in hell in this match


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## TheOneAboveAll (Jun 16, 2008)

Yea it's called Amaterasu to da face bitch.


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## skiboydoggy (Jun 16, 2008)

Fuck, Sauce can use Amaterasu at will now? I must be missing something. Not that it makes a win any more likely.


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## Linkdarkside (Jun 17, 2008)

i think sasuke would win he have super speed,can read moves whit his sharingan,his chidori nagashi would paralyze Ryu,his chidori sword would cut thru Ryu weapon like they were butter,Sasuke can walk on wall's and water, Jump higher ,fire jutsu's and replacement jutsu,ect.


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## Vault (Jun 17, 2008)

Linkdarkside said:


> i think sasuke would win he have super speed,can read moves whit his sharingan,his chidori nagashi would paralyze Ryu,his chidori sword would cut thru Ryu weapon like they were butter,Sasuke can walk on wall's and water, Jump higher ,fire jutsu's and replacement jutsu,ect.



o rly 

ryu's wind ninpo rips the lil bitch to pieces


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## skiboydoggy (Jun 17, 2008)

Because now Chidori Nagashi > True Dragon Sword, amirite?


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## superbatman86 (Jun 17, 2008)

skiboydoggy said:


> Because now Chidori Nagashi > True Dragon Sword, amirite?


In terms of area affect yes.Sasuke would win this fight.If you use gameplay Ryu can tank bullets, but gets hurt by bats.He can cut a hellicopter in half but takes multipy shots to kill even low level enimies.Hell the only enimies he has shown to kill in one shot are bats and ghost fish.His ninpo while impressive by his verse standard are bush league in the Naruverse.Sasuke has more consistant feats.


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## dreams lie (Jun 17, 2008)

Sasuke dies.


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## BAD BD (Jun 17, 2008)

Lightning demon's lightning > Chidori


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## superbatman86 (Jun 17, 2008)

BAD BD said:


> Lightning demon's lightning > Chidori


Kirin>>>>>>everything Ryu has ever shown.


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## Yak (Jun 18, 2008)

superbatman86 said:


> Kirin>>>>>>everything Ryu has ever shown.



Too bad its preparation time is ridiculous.


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## BAD BD (Jun 18, 2008)

superbatman86 said:


> Kirin>>>>>>everything Ryu has ever shown.



While Sasuke is doing his seals he gets shot with a tank shell arrow.


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## superbatman86 (Jun 18, 2008)

BAD BD said:


> While Sasuke is doing his seals he gets shot with a tank shell arrow.


Seeing how slow Ryu is at firing an arrow I doubt it.And it's not like he can't do seals while moving or create a bushin to distract him or spam shiriken to completely overwhelm him.


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## skiboydoggy (Jun 18, 2008)

superbatman86 said:


> Seeing how slow Ryu is at firing an arrow I doubt it.And it's not like he can't do seals while moving or create a bushin to distract him or spam shiriken to completely overwhelm him.



You know, as opposed to Ryu spamming his own shurikens, or just bisecting Sasuke before any of that happens.
Ryu > Guns > Narutoverse.


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## superbatman86 (Jun 18, 2008)

skiboydoggy said:


> You know, as opposed to Ryu spamming his own shurikens, or just bisecting Sasuke before any of that happens.
> Ryu > Guns > Narutoverse.


Except Ryu has no feat anywhere near Sasukes in shuriken speed or numbers.Not even close.He can't bisect someone faster than him.And yes Sasuke is quite a bit faster.Ryu never dodges bullets not even in game play.All you do is dodge the linear aim of whose shooting at you and even then sometimes he's not fast enough.


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## skiboydoggy (Jun 18, 2008)

superbatman86 said:


> Except Ryu has no feat anywhere near Sasukes in shuriken speed or numbers.Not even close.He can't bisect someone faster than him.And yes Sasuke is quite a bit faster.Ryu never dodges bullets not even in game play.All you do is dodge the linear aim of whose shooting at you and even then sometimes he's not fast enough.



When he's not fast enough, he's tanking bullets. That's just brilliant. So now Ryu wins in offence, (True Dragon Sword + Tank Shell Bow > Sasuke's offence,) defence, (bullet tanking,) and precognition. (Dozens of gunners all around me? No matters, I do a double flip and dodge all of them! Eat my dust Sharingan!)


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## Pencil (Jun 18, 2008)

I've beaten Ninja Gaiden Black (Havn't played Sigma or Ninja Gaiden II.)
I'll give it to Sasuke, the game mechanics can't seriously be taken into consideration for Ryu's skills. Not to mentioned they changed depending on difficulity. In the hardest mode Ryu could take 3-4 bullets before going down.

Sasuke has the Mangekyo, granting him abilities such as (or similar to) Tsukoyomi, Amaterasu and Susanoo.

As for his speed an abilities, he was able to take out a legion (thousands) of ninjas without getting a single scratch. And he didn't kill a single one of them as a part of his policy (technically he didn't kill Deidera, Deidera killed himself.)

His Kusagani cut through a kunai (steel) like nothing. He has abilities such as Kirin which has an enormous area effect as it destroyed the most of a mountain, even though it was blocked by Susanoo.

There are multiple ways for Sasuke to win, putting Ryu in a genjutsu or seal him away with Susanoo are just two ways.

His speed was best shown when he fought team Kakashi. As they couldn't catch him with their eyes. Has Ryu ever demonstrated that kind of speed? I think not.


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## Pencil (Jun 18, 2008)

skiboydoggy said:


> When he's not fast enough, he's tanking bullets.


You do realize that it's made that way so the game would be entertaining? Change difficulity to the hardest and Ryu will go down after hit by a few bullets.



> That's just brilliant. So now Ryu wins in offence, (True Dragon Sword + Tank Shell Bow > Sasuke's offence,) defence, (bullet tanking,) and precognition. (Dozens of gunners all around me? No matters, I do a double flip and dodge all of them! Eat my dust Sharingan!)


If Sasuke has Susanoo which can tank lighting bolts such as Kirin which shatter mountains, then Sasuke's defesne is way above Ryu's.
As for offence, I'd like to see Ryu do this.



That would shatter any tank ...


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## skiboydoggy (Jun 18, 2008)

Sauce has Susanoo now?
And Kirin is irrelevant in a fight where he's not going to have five to ten chapters to set it up by throwing fireballs and drawing on Amaterasu's power.

And is Ryu far faster than hordes of ninjas with automatic weapons, or is he tanking bullets? Make up your mind. Either way, he's going to have a major advantage over Sasuke.


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## BAD BD (Jun 18, 2008)

superbatman86 said:


> Except Ryu has no feat anywhere near Sasukes in shuriken speed or numbers.Not even close.He can't bisect someone faster than him.And yes Sasuke is quite a bit faster.Ryu never dodges bullets not even in game play.All you do is dodge the linear aim of whose shooting at you and even then sometimes he's not fast enough.




Dilahabro blocks all of those shuriken. Teleportation and Tank arrow. Dead Sasuke.

The story says he dodges bullets because he survives.


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## Pencil (Jun 18, 2008)

skiboydoggy said:


> Sauce has Susanoo now?


Itachi achived it when he got the Mangekyo.



> And Kirin is irrelevant in a fight where he's not going to have five to ten chapters to set it up by throwing fireballs and drawing on Amaterasu's power.


Sasuke's katon against Naruto did a hell of a lot damage too, and that was pre-timeskip.



> And is Ryu far faster than hordes of ninjas with automatic weapons, or is he tanking bullets? Make up your mind. Either way, he's going to have a major advantage over Sasuke.


When I "runned" in the game I didn't feel especially fast at all. The only thing that was impressive with his running was that he could run (a short distance) on walls.
Either way, he's not getting anywhere close to Sasuke before he's trapt in a genjutsu. And seeing how Ryu can't counter it he has no chance.


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## neodragzero (Jun 18, 2008)

Pencil said:


> Itachi achived it when he got the Mangekyo.


Sasuke isn't Itachi. Until Sasuke uses Susano...no.


> Either way, he's not getting anywhere close to Sasuke before he's trapt in a genjutsu. And seeing how Ryu can't counter it he has no chance.


A bloodlusted Ryu isn't busting out offensive jutsus and just stands around why?


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## Sylar (Jun 18, 2008)

Pencil said:


> Itachi achived it when he got the Mangekyo.
> 
> 
> Sasuke's katon against Naruto did a hell of a lot damage too, and that was pre-timeskip.
> ...



Scans of Sasuke using any MS techniques conciously. The Amat doesn't count as it was a trap set by Itachi. Sasuke had no control of it.


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## Fang (Jun 18, 2008)

Didn't Ryu slice apart a tank and helicoptor in the first Ninja Gaiden?


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## Pencil (Jun 18, 2008)

Sylar said:


> Scans of Sasuke using any MS techniques conciously. The Amat doesn't count as it was a trap set by Itachi. Sasuke had no control of it.




All jutsus brought by the Mangekyo come at once, no training required.


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## Fang (Jun 18, 2008)

Which is why Susanoo or Tsukiyomi didn't just randomely bust out of his Mangekyou Sharingan but specifically Amatearsu did, right?


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## Pencil (Jun 18, 2008)

Sasuke didn't get his MS, before he realized that his brother was his "best friend". The programed Amaterasu was Itachi's, Sasuke didn't have his own MS then.


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## Fang (Jun 18, 2008)

Like was otherwise posted before me, show me feats of Sasuke actively using MS techniques.


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## Pencil (Jun 18, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Like was otherwise posted before me, show me feats of Sasuke actively using MS techniques.


He has the Mangekyo, Itachi received all his techniques the same day as he got the Mangekyo. To claim that Sasuke doesn't have them would be ignoring the fact that 3 jutsus were given to 100% of the Uchiha MS users on panel. With the EMS, another ability is also given as hinted by Itachi.
Next battle Sasuke enters he'll probably use it.


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## neodragzero (Jun 18, 2008)

Pencil said:


> He has the Mangekyo, Itachi received all his techniques the same day as he got the Mangekyo. To claim that Sasuke doesn't have them would be ignoring the fact that 3 jutsus were given to 100% of the Uchiha MS users on panel. With the EMS, another ability is also given as hinted by Itachi.
> Next battle Sasuke enters he'll probably use it.



In other words, you still don't have Sasuke using Susanoo. Concession accepted.

Seriously, Itachi actively gained the MS through his own efforts and used them, while Sasuke still hasn't even intentionally used any of the MS jutsus yet. He wasn't even sure how exactly it came about until Madara explained. So, yes, Sasuke doesn't have the option of using something he hasn't even shown off yet.


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## Pencil (Jun 18, 2008)

neodragzero said:


> Seriously, Itachi actively gained the MS through his own efforts and used them, while Sasuke still hasn't even intentionally used any of the MS jutsus yet. He wasn't even sure how exactly it came about until Madara explained. So, yes, Sasuke doesn't have the option of using something he hasn't even shown off yet.


So you admit that you can't conclude a winner as you're not aware of what Sasuke is capable of right now.
You can't conclude the result of this battle without knowing the true extend of Sasuke new gained power, correct?


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## superbatman86 (Jun 18, 2008)

BAD BD said:


> Dilahabro blocks all of those shuriken. Teleportation and Tank arrow. Dead Sasuke.
> 
> The story says he dodges bullets because he survives.


Except he can't teleport and Dilahabro wouldn't block them all because it's a)not bigger than his entire body b)extremely slow and c)Sasuke can control his shuriken on a string to attack from behind.And no the story says that he dodged the aim of inferior oppenents that's why he survived.


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## Fang (Jun 18, 2008)

Pencil said:


> So you admit that you can't conclude a winner as you're not aware of what Sasuke is capable of right now.
> You can't conclude the result of this battle without knowing the true extend of Sasuke new gained power, correct?



Don't put words in his mouth. He's telling you that you can't use abilities or powers that Sasuke hasn't showcased or actively used until they are showcased in the manga under Sasuke's control.


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## dreams lie (Jun 19, 2008)

> No summons or genjutsu.



Sasuke dies.


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## neodragzero (Jun 19, 2008)

Pencil said:


> So you admit that you can't conclude a winner as you're not aware of what Sasuke is capable of right now.
> You can't conclude the result of this battle without knowing the true extend of Sasuke new gained power, correct?



What Mirai Gohan pretty much just posted.


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## skiboydoggy (Jun 19, 2008)

Wow. The Sauce has Susanoo because Itachi has Susanoo argument is so full of holes I don't even know where to begin.

How about the bit where the two Mangekyos that have demonstrated their powers so far have not been seen to replicate each other's techniques yet? Notice how Kakashi gets his space-time warp while Itachi gets Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, and Susanoo. Notice how Sasuke has a drastically different MS from both of them.


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## atom (Jun 19, 2008)

If Humans can survive lightning strikes without being completely oblierated, then a Tank would you know.. tank it.


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## BAD BD (Jun 19, 2008)

superbatman86 said:


> Except he can't teleport and Dilahabro wouldn't block them all because it's a)not bigger than his entire body b)extremely slow and c)Sasuke can control his shuriken on a string to attack from behind.And no the story says that he dodged the aim of inferior oppenents that's why he survived.



He can teleport.

Dilahabro is as big as his body

He is a bullet timer. His inferior opponents had guns and rockets.


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## skiboydoggy (Jun 19, 2008)

BAD BD said:


> He can teleport.
> 
> Dilahabro is as big as his body
> 
> He is a bullet timer. His inferior opponents had guns and rockets.



Either he's a bullet timer or his spatial awareness is so great and his reflexes are so fast that he's effectively outside the gunner-nins' linear aim before they can even pull their trigger, even when there are dozens of them. Which honestly, puts him far above Byakugan and Sharingan.


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## Pencil (Jun 19, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Don't put words in his mouth. He's telling you that you can't use abilities or powers that Sasuke hasn't showcased or actively used until they are showcased in the manga under Sasuke's control.


He have abilities similar to Itachi's, that's a good estimation.
Then again he wouldn't need them.

Chiyo said that if you looked Uchiha in his eyes you'd be trapped in his genjutsu. Itachi was able to put Naruto in his genjutsu without eye-contact.
And Sasuke's genjutsu is at least as good as Itachi's, as he overcome the Tsukuyomi.

When Ryu's in Sasuke's genjutsu there isn't much he can do.


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## skiboydoggy (Jun 19, 2008)

First off:



> Ryu from Ninja Gaiden.
> Bloodlusted
> *No summons or genjutsu*.
> Ryu gets any weapons/skills from his games.



Genjutsu isn't a factor.

Secondly, well, there is no secondly, except Sasuke has not shown any non eye contact Genjutsu that I remember.


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## neodragzero (Jun 19, 2008)

Pencil said:


> He have abilities similar to Itachi's, that's a good estimation.


But not an actual show of ability. He didn't even intentionally activate Amaterasu. Forgot about bringing up a technique he hasn't even accidentally used as part of a trap that Itachi set up.


> Chiyo said that if you looked Uchiha in his eyes you'd be trapped in his genjutsu. Itachi was able to put Naruto in his genjutsu without eye-contact.
> And Sasuke's genjutsu is at least as good as Itachi's, as he overcome the Tsukuyomi.


But no show of Sasuke putting people under genjutsu with a finger. While you seem to keep forgetting that Itachi wasn't even fighting him seriously. It took a suicidal, weakened, and eye-sight losing Itachi for him to matter against Itachi.


> When Ryu's in Sasuke's genjutsu there isn't much he can do.


Read the OP.


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## Vault (Jun 19, 2008)

hayabusa can turn himself into a hawk you know  or is it rainbow


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## superbatman86 (Jun 19, 2008)

BAD BD said:


> He can teleport.
> 
> Dilahabro is as big as his body
> 
> He is a bullet timer. His inferior opponents had guns and rockets.


Show me him teleporting in the middle of battle because I don't rememer ever seeing him do it.Dilahabro isn't as big as his body.Equip it and you can still see Ryu around it.He has never bullet timed.The fact that he's faster than his opponents and can move before they shoot or adjust their aim doesn't make him a bullet timer it means he's faster than they are.


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## superbatman86 (Jun 19, 2008)

skiboydoggy said:


> Either he's a bullet timer or his spatial awareness is so great and his reflexes are so fast that he's effectively outside the gunner-nins' linear aim before they can even pull their trigger, even when there are dozens of them. Which honestly, puts him far above Byakugan and Sharingan.


You honestly have no idea what the sharingan is capable of if you think that the speed Ryu has displayed is anywhere near what it takes to overwhelm it.


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