# No good would come from Tobi being Obito.



## Tony Lou (Aug 12, 2012)

Obito turning into some bitter guy would only make me lose respect for him.

He was both smarter and better than that. 

Not to mention that while beneath the rocks, he had a smile on his face. No regrets.

It would take great effort for the author to pull that off well.


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## Orochibuto (Aug 12, 2012)

Better than Izuna......


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## Golden Circle (Aug 12, 2012)

Yes. There was always something that annoyed me about the Tobi=Obito theory.

The idea that Obito would turn around like that doesn't gel very well.


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## Lelouch71 (Aug 12, 2012)

This is Kishi. Kurama went from the devil incarnate to Naruto's BFF. This is the same manga where fanfics become reality. The filler brothers gain Kyuubi powers by eating his flesh. Itachi free himself from Edo Tensei. Even Madara did the same. Nagato even manage to get his youthful appearance back. Anything is possible.

Even then I always suspected Tobi would be just another sob story. I've been saying that for years.


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## Pretty Good Satan (Aug 12, 2012)

Rainbow Dash said:


> Yes. There was always something that annoyed me about the Tobi=Obito theory.
> 
> The idea that Obito would turn around like that doesn't gel very well.



Why?  Nagato was a good guy and he ended up killing babies and wanting to drop nukes on villages...


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## MYJC (Aug 12, 2012)

Orochibuto said:


> Better than Izuna......



This. At least it'll be interesting to see Kishi try and make sense of it. And at least people care about Obito. 

Izuna would be the most anticlimactic reveal in history. The character has never even appeared or been mentioned by name in the manga and casual readers would have no idea who he was.


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## Jake CENA (Aug 12, 2012)

Let us all wait for Kishi's big reveal on how Rin died and how their relationship turned sour..


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## αce (Aug 12, 2012)

Obito fans think we hate the theory because we don't want to be wrong.
Well, that's stupid. Why do you think we dismissed it in the first place?

It's shit writing. Although after Nagato conversion therapy and Kurama's equally bad treatment, why am I expecting anything from this manga?


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## forkandspoon (Aug 12, 2012)

Naruto, Sasuke, Sakura
Jiriaya, Oro, Tsundae
Kakashi, Obito, Rin

It's as simple as that... with the exception of Kakashi being a hybrid of a genius/goof ball because Obito was assumed dead... so Kakashi is shown doing stuff like reading his pervy books and using moves like 1000 years of pain.


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## Last Rose of Summer (Aug 12, 2012)

Luiz said:


> Obito turning into some bitter guy would only make me lose respect for him.
> 
> He was both smarter and better than that.
> 
> ...



Kishi doesn't care for the reasons you have listed. Tobi is about to be another Uchiha with death as acceptable closure to be "resurrected" for Kishi to mess with his development and character even further.


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## Gaawa-chan (Aug 12, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> Obito fans think we hate the theory because... It's shit writing.



That's a terrible reason to be in denial about something.


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## Butō Rengoob (Aug 12, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> Obito fans think we hate the theory because we don't want to be wrong.
> Well, that's stupid. Why do you think we dismissed it in the first place?
> 
> It's shit writing. Although after Nagato conversion therapy and Kurama's equally bad treatment, why am I expecting anything from this manga?


Pretty much this.

I've written off Tobito since it's conception, which is even before Izuna popped up as a theory if memory serves me right. It's just terrible writing and turns Tobi, the mysterious villain who just wants the world under his control, to the sob story villain that wants to end all wars and the cycle of hatred like Nagato.


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## Jake CENA (Aug 12, 2012)

You seem to forget one of the themes for Uchiha which is: *Hatred*

And Obito hating Kakashi because of Rin's unknown death(to us readers of course) and failures of him being a shinobi is a legit motive for him to be what he is today. And all Tobi wanted is a Utopia without War and Deaths and that can only be achieved with Mugen Tsukuyomi.

And this is the reason why Tobito haters don't get, and this was fairly mentioned in todays chapter. Tobi has personal hatred towards Kakashi..


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## Godaime Kazekage (Aug 12, 2012)

Everything will make sense when it's explained that Madara genjutsu'd the evil into Obito. Genjutsu solves all problems.


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## forkandspoon (Aug 12, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> Obito fans think we hate the theory because we don't want to be wrong.
> Well, that's stupid. Why do you think we dismissed it in the first place?
> 
> It's shit writing. Although after Nagato conversion therapy and Kurama's equally bad treatment, why am I expecting anything from this manga?



Dude you have to think ... this is a manga written for like 13 year olds ... As an Obito  supporter I think deniers  deny it because 

1) They are confused and think Naruto is a senien manga or something.
2) They are 12 years old.
3) They are older but have some type of disability (nothing wrong with that, everyone has the right to enjoy manga/anime).


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## First Tsurugi (Aug 12, 2012)

That's the point, silly.

The purer something is, the more satisfying it is to see it corrupted.

Seeing Obito, one of the most noble characters in the manga, turn out to be Tobi, one of the most malevolent forces in the series, would be an extremely dark, tragic, and interesting twist.


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## Yuna (Aug 12, 2012)

Lelouch71 said:


> This is Kishi. Kurama went from the devil incarnate to Naruto's BFF.


Except Kurama's never been portrayed like that. *Legend* said that Kurama was merely a malevolent mass of Chakra, but since the start of the manga, Kurama has always been shown to be more than that. People *thought* it was evil because of its rampages when Madara and Tobi controlled it, though. But that was Kurama while being controlled.

It gave Naruto Chakra when he asked for it both when training to summon and against Neji. I healed Naruto at the Valley of the End and gifted him with enough Chakra to go KN0. We also found out later that had Naruto died, Kurama would've been reincarnated some time later. So Kurama voluntarily prolonged its continued imprisonment on several occasions. I suspect Kurama's suspected that Naruto is the child Rikoudo Sennin foresaw for a long time now. Only minor suspense of disbelief is required for it all to make sense.

Tobito requires *a whole ton* of suspense of disbelief. And a whole lot of retcons, too.


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## Hero of Shadows (Aug 12, 2012)

forkandspoon said:


> Naruto, Sasuke, Sakura
> Jiriaya, Oro, Tsundae
> Kakashi, Obito, Rin
> 
> It's as simple as that... with the exception of Kakashi being a hybrid of a genius/goof ball because Obito was assumed dead... so Kakashi is shown doing stuff like reading his pervy books and using moves like 1000 years of pain.



Except if you had read the damn chapters where Obito was alive you'd see that Kakashi is the Genius  he's in the Orochimaru -> Sasuke line.

Granted he's taken up a *two exactly two* Goofball traits his being late, which is actually pretty tragic not funny now that we know how he spends his time, and reading those books.

Everything else about him from his fighting style to his demeanour to his brilliant analytical skills, which is the thing Kishi most emphasises about him, place him in the Genius slot.

Now I know that doesn't help set up the narrative you're aiming for but Kakashi *is* not a Goofball and Obito *wasn't* a Genius.


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## Rasendori (Aug 12, 2012)

Kakashi breakdown would be amazing to witness.

also this



First Tsurugi said:


> That's the point, silly.
> 
> The purer something is, the more satisfying it is to see it corrupted.
> 
> Seeing Obito, one of the most noble characters in the manga, turn out to be Tobi, one of the most malevolent forces in the series, would be an extremely dark, tragic, and interesting twist.


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## Last Rose of Summer (Aug 12, 2012)

Hero of Shadows said:


> Except if you had read the damn chapters where Obito was alive you'd see that Kakashi is the Genius  he's in the Orochimaru -> Sasuke line.
> 
> Granted he's taken up a *two exactly two* Goofball traits his being late, which is actually pretty tragic not funny now that we know how he spends his time, and reading those books.
> 
> ...



Don't try reasoning HoS. People will bend the parallels as it suits current needs of plot or their desires.


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## Palpatine (Aug 12, 2012)

Nothing really surprises me anymore with this manga. 

Characters change their entire moral code at the drop of a hat.


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## Obito (Aug 12, 2012)

Sharingan has been said to basically make anyone a genius.

Kakashi was already a genius.


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## AlphaReaver (Aug 12, 2012)

Kishimoto IS That Great Of A Writer. You Guys Shit On Him, But Don't Catch HALF Of The Depth & References That He Puts Into His Design Of This Manga. Kishimoto Deserves Nothing But RESPECT For This Great Manga He's Given Us All These Years, That Many Of Us Read For Free. I Started Reading Naruto When I Was His Age In Part 1, I Am Now Going To Be 23 Years Old & STILL Find This To Be One Hell Of A Well Written Story. Show The King, Respect. We All Knew Tobito Was True, It Was The Only Logical Conclusion, Or Maybe You Can Say That Kishi Is So Good That Even Without Enough Explicit Proof, You Can Still Feel, Know & Understand That Tobito Was True.


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## BroKage (Aug 12, 2012)

Lelouch71 said:


> This is Kishi. Kurama went from the devil incarnate to Naruto's BFF. This is the same manga where fanfics become reality. The filler brothers gain Kyuubi powers by eating his flesh. Itachi free himself from Edo Tensei. Even Madara did the same. Nagato even manage to get his youthful appearance back. Anything is possible.
> 
> Even then I always suspected Tobi would be just another sob story. I've been saying that for years.


This sums up my opinion.

People having high expectations for a standard shonen manga that's disappointed before baffles me.



Gaawa-chan said:


> That's a terrible reason to be in denial about something.


Indeed. It's shit writing but it's clearly the route Kishi's going down at the moment. Readers are just refusing to accept realities they don't like.


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## Sound Village (Aug 12, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> It's shit writing.



Yeah, because making Tobi's identity a character that has never had any real impact on the reader is _fantastic_ writing. Especially after several years of waiting.

----

Naruto: "I've had enough of your bull shit! Who are you?!"

Reaching for his fan, Tobi: "Hahahah!"

_What's he doing now?!_

Naruto, Bee, Guy, and Kakashi lean forward in anticipation. Just Team Konoha prepares their attack, Tobi rips off his mask and begins singing, "I'm sexy and I know it!" while dancing appropriately.

Guy: So much youth!!!

Bee: Aye yo, he got them moves doe.

Naruto: Whaaa?!

Kakashi: Wh... who are you?


Tobi: The name's Menma. Menma Namikaze.


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## Golden Circle (Aug 12, 2012)

AlphaReaver said:


> Kishimoto IS That Great Of A Writer. You Guys Shit On Him, But Don't Catch HALF Of The Depth & References That He Puts Into His Design Of This Manga. Kishimoto Deserves Nothing But RESPECT For This Great Manga He's Given Us All These Years, That Many Of Us Read For Free. I Started Reading Naruto When I Was His Age In Part 1, I Am Now Going To Be 23 Years Old & STILL Find This To Be One Hell Of A Well Written Story. Show The King, Respect. We All Knew Tobito Was True, It Was The Only Logical Conclusion, Or Maybe You Can Say That Kishi Is So Good That Even Without Enough Explicit Proof, You Can Still Feel, Know & Understand That Tobito Was True.


Dude, wat? 
Let me guess, you got D's in English. All lower captials is better than capitalizing every letter. Your post hurt my brain.


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## tupadre97 (Aug 12, 2012)

Luiz said:


> Obito turning into some bitter guy would only make me lose respect for him.
> 
> He was both smarter and better than that.
> 
> ...


Exactly. Obito turning evil would be the equivalent of Naruto dying yet magically coming back as Orochimaru. Just plain retarted.


Orochibuto said:


> Better than Izuna......


Gtfo... makes way more sense than gay ass Tobito.


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## tupadre97 (Aug 12, 2012)

AlphaReaver said:


> Kishimoto IS That Great Of A Writer. You Guys Shit On Him, But Don't Catch HALF Of The Depth & References That He Puts Into His Design Of This Manga. Kishimoto Deserves Nothing But RESPECT For This Great Manga He's Given Us All These Years, That Many Of Us Read For Free. I Started Reading Naruto When I Was His Age In Part 1, I Am Now Going To Be 23 Years Old & STILL Find This To Be One Hell Of A Well Written Story. Show The King, Respect. We All Knew Tobito Was True, It Was The Only Logical Conclusion, Or Maybe You Can Say That Kishi Is So Good That Even Without Enough Explicit Proof, You Can Still Feel, Know & Understand That Tobito Was True.



Wtf? Come on man his story has fallen apart. Read/watch One Piece if you want a consistent, deep, and inspiring story. It is literally shitting on Naruto now and this is coming from a guy who loved Naruto way more than One Piece when it was back on Toonami and I rewatched One Piece and it is so much better you won't be dissapointed.


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## sadino (Aug 12, 2012)

I'm really starting to doubt Tobi is even an Uchiha by this point.Since even his most treasured eye was stolen.His Zetsu parts would be enough for handling the sharingans...

So yeah, if anything, it got harder to predict who he is.


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## AlphaReaver (Aug 12, 2012)

Rainbow Dash said:


> Dude, wat?
> Let me guess, you got D's in English. All lower captials is better than capitalizing every letter. Your post hurt my brain.



Get Off My Dick Then Wit Yo Grammar Cop Ass!!

& Tupadre I Do Read One Piece, It's Good, Broken & Wacky As Fuck, But Unpredictable & Good. Oda's a Beast With Wordplays & Puns, But Kishi's a Literary BEAST. His Techniques Are BEASTY, You Can Tell He Has A Wide Variety Of Knowledge On Different Topics & Cultures, etc. & y u no Tobito fan?? It could turn out to be Izuna in Obito's Body  But For Real Kishi's Made A Few Blunders, But His Usage Of References To Other Sources Is INCREDIBLE. He Bites & Makes It BETTER, A Manga's Jay-Z.


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## Tony Lou (Aug 12, 2012)

First Tsurugi said:


> That's the point, silly.
> 
> The purer something is, the more satisfying it is to see it corrupted.
> 
> Seeing Obito, one of the most noble characters in the manga, turn out to be Tobi, one of the most malevolent forces in the series, would be an extremely dark, tragic, and interesting twist.



The idea itself has great potential. The problem lies in the execution.

At the end of Kakashi gaiden, Obito gave him one of his eyes as sign of friendship.

That's how their last meeting ended.

There was no seed for bitterness. Especially towards Kakashi.


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## gabzilla (Aug 12, 2012)

Luiz said:


> It would take great effort for the author to pull that off well.



There's your problem. Did you see how Kishimoto developed the war and the past 5 or 6 arcs? He doesn't care about that.

Besides, how many villains in Naruto started as cute kids again?


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## KAKASHI10 (Aug 12, 2012)

I think this is the best thing I will say is this:


KYUBI called tobi YOU, the YOU kyubi use seem to be for someone he actually knew close and personally and that he hated also.


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## Jaime Lannister (Aug 12, 2012)

AlphaReaver said:


> Get Off My Dick Then Wit Yo Grammar Cop Ass!!
> 
> & Tupadre I Do Read One Piece, It's Good, Broken & Wacky As Fuck, But Unpredictable & Good. Oda's a Beast With Wordplays & Puns, But Kishi's a Literary BEAST. His Techniques Are BEASTY, You Can Tell He Has A Wide Variety Of Knowledge On Different Topics & Cultures, etc. & y u no Tobito fan?? It could turn out to be Izuna in Obito's Body  But For Real Kishi's Made A Few Blunders, But His Usage Of References To Other Sources Is INCREDIBLE. He Bites & Makes It BETTER, A Manga's Jay-Z.


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## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

wouldn't be the first time though Luiz:

Look at Nagato
heck even Sasuke was some happy and cute kid
Kurama as well for example
Gaara to some degree

Would it really surprise you that kishi would do it again? :/


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## KAKASHI10 (Aug 12, 2012)

Rainbow Dash said:


> Dude, wat?
> Let me guess, you got D's in English. All lower captials is better than capitalizing every letter. Your post hurt my brain.



If you have time to correct strangers grammar you could have time to correct mine :suun


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## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

tupadre97 said:


> Wtf? Come on man his story has fallen apart. Read/watch One Piece if you want a consistent, deep, and inspiring story. It is literally shitting on Naruto now and this is coming from a guy who loved Naruto way more than One Piece when it was back on Toonami and I rewatched One Piece and it is so much better you won't be dissapointed.





Rainbow Dash said:


> Dude, wat?
> Let me guess, you got D's in English. All lower captials is better than capitalizing every letter. Your post hurt my brain.



one piece is definitely better than naruto and more enjoyable to read but the guy does have a point.  Kishi does connect a lot of his themes to something outside of the fantasy world (i suppose you can still call it a fantasy), like Nagato's state and him reaching Nirvana for example.


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## KAKASHI10 (Aug 12, 2012)

Nic said:


> one piece is definitely better than naruto and more enjoyable to read but the guy does have a point.  Kishi does connect a lot of his themes to something outside of the fantasy world (i suppose you can still call it a fantasy), like Nagato's state and him reaching Nirvana for example.



Dude is nice and all that you came back, but did you not autoban yourself for been a horrible person  any ways welcome back 


on topic:
Agree that kishi uses many outside historical and mithilogies refereferences.


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## iJutsu (Aug 12, 2012)

It's Rin obviously.


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## Descent of the Lion (Aug 12, 2012)

OP is the reason why he'd be a good reveal.


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## Orochibuto (Aug 12, 2012)

tupadre97 said:


> Gtfo... makes way more sense than gay ass Tobito.



May make more sense but it would be the most boring choice.


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## Battoumaru (Aug 12, 2012)

Look at it this way. In essence, if this works out the way it seems like it will, and Obitobi is true: 

Kakashi is essentially Sasuke gone right.

Obito is essentially Naruto gone wrong.

Kakashi and Obito both had dual links tying them to opposing ideology.

Kakashi was more willing to be cold and to follow rules and regulations than his predecessors, Jiraiya and Minato. He was more along the lines of a non-Uchiha Sasuke from his earliest days, which is probably WHY he tried his hardest to help Sasuke defeat his hatred. However, in terms of his lineage via Will of Fire, his predecessors were proponents of the ideology of peace brought about by direct opposition of the hatred and coldness that the Uchiha tended to fall into. 

Then there's Obito. Obito was essentially an Uchiha Naruto. Obito was an idealist who believed that those who placed rules and regulations over the protection of bonds and friendships were worse than trash, and, as a result, he was the foil to Kakashi from his earliest appearance. Despite being an Uchiha, he more closely mirrored the teachings of Jiraiya and Minato. 

And then, when Obito gave Kakashi his Sharingan, and Kakashi believed him to be dead, that is when the paradigm shift may have begun.

Now Kakashi is closer to Obito in terms of ideology and mannerisms.

Wouldn't it be natural for the foil to Kakashi to have changed in a similar manner? 

As Kakashi's foil, Obito becoming Tobi brings his character full circle. Kakashi became a better person as a result of his experience at Kannabi-Kyo, but Obito... may have been warped in his time as a survivor of war. It happens. Tobi's colder way of thinking reflects Kakashi's earlier way of thinking just as Kakashi's reflects Obito's earlier way of thinking.

Also, it is quite possible that THIS is what Kishi was referring to when he said that this would be the (very long) "Year of Kakashi". (Must be in Namekian years, eh?) 

Kakashi's character is slowly finding its resolution before our very eyes. First through encountering Tobi and Sasuke, then by encountering Kakashi and Zabuza, and now by finally realizing the nature of his connection to Tobi. Don't be surprised if Tobi is beaten sooner than you think he will be, leaving room for the other protagonists to find their resolution.

EDIT: As a side note, has this manga not, for many years, been a manga based on the interaction between foils? Naruto/Sasuke, Danzo/Hiruzen, Jiraiya/Orochimaru, Kakashi/Obito, Nagato/Yahiko, Naruto/Gaara, Sasuke/Kimimaro/Kabuto/Sound Four, etc.


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## Addy (Aug 12, 2012)

Orochibuto said:


> Better than Izuna......



no. izune makes more sense.


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## NW (Aug 12, 2012)

Luiz said:
			
		

> Obito turning into some bitter guy would only make me lose respect for him.
> 
> He was both smarter and better than that.
> 
> ...


Fine then. Think that way, if you wish. But you need to see how well if fits the parallels in the story. It's great writing.



			
				♠Ace♠ said:
			
		

> Obito fans think we hate the theory because we don't want to be wrong.
> Well, that's stupid. Why do you think we dismissed it in the first place?
> 
> It's shit writing. Although after Nagato conversion therapy and Kurama's equally bad treatment, why am I expecting anything from this manga?


Sure if you think a meaningful, interesting twist is shit writing.



			
				First Tsurugi said:
			
		

> That's the point, silly.
> 
> The purer something is, the more satisfying it is to see it corrupted.
> 
> Seeing Obito, one of the most noble characters in the manga, turn out to be Tobi, one of the most malevolent forces in the series, would be an extremely dark, tragic, and interesting twist.


Exactly this.



			
				Hero of Shadows said:
			
		

> Except if you had read the damn chapters where Obito was alive you'd see that Kakashi is the Genius he's in the Orochimaru -> Sasuke line.
> 
> Granted he's taken up a two exactly two Goofball traits his being late, which is actually pretty tragic not funny now that we know how he spends his time, and reading those books.
> 
> ...


No shit. But Obito was an exact parallel to Naruto and was an Uchiha. It's a reverse parallel. Kakashi was the Sasuke type and was going down a dark path but got converted by Obito. Obito was good most of his life but events after Gaiden caused him to turn evil and resent the world. It's kind of mandatory if you think about it.



			
				Addy said:
			
		

> no. izune makes more sense.


.......

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH!!!!

Seriously, Madara knows who Tobi is and said that Izuna was dead.

Also, why would Izuna be saying all this stuff to Kakashi all of a sudden?

Why would Izuna wear a mask when he looks so much like Madara?

Face it. Your Izuna theory fails. And you're in denial. 

Tobi is Obito. Why else have him have Obito's eye? Why not have it be someone else and have him have Space-Time Ninjutsu that doesn't relate to Obito's eye?

He has Obito's eye because he IS Obito. But I don't need to keep telling everyone that. The manga canon will do it for me soon enough. Maybe even next week.



			
				Battoumaru said:
			
		

> Look at it this way. In essence, if this works out the way it seems like it will, and Obitobi is true:
> 
> Kakashi is essentially Sasuke gone right.
> 
> ...


You fucking NAILED it, dude. I really don't see why people don't get this.


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## Descent of the Lion (Aug 12, 2012)

Addy said:


> no. izune makes more sense.



Izuna makes about as much sense as reading the first page of "Finnegan's Wake" upside down.


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## Missing_Nin (Aug 12, 2012)

obito's just trying to find peace his way. like pain.


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## Ezekial (Aug 12, 2012)

And the why does the evil mastermind have Obito's eye? Because he is Obito  <---- Does that really sound like good writing you guys? Seriously? It's awful... Not to mention Obito is practically fodder


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## Raiden (Aug 12, 2012)

Smarter and better, but also a young child who didn't experience anything. We already know young children without the guidance of a powerful positive force in their lives can end up with distorted views of the world. Nagato's life went to hell soon after Jiraiya left and the end result was a god complex. Naruto wrestled with depression until Iruka spoke to him to him about Jiraiya's death.

A shinobi with no one growing up in a post war world? I can certainly see how someone like that evolved into Tobi.


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## First Tsurugi (Aug 12, 2012)

Ezekial said:


> And the why does the evil mastermind have Obito's eye? Because he is Obito  <---- Does that really sound like good writing you guys? Seriously? It's awful... Not to mention Obito is practically fodder



Obito possessed what were perhaps the most powerful set of eyes to ever exist in Uchiha history, it's about time you guys manned up and ditched the "lol Obito is fodder" rhetoric.


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## Dantaeres (Aug 12, 2012)

Ezekial said:


> And the why does the evil mastermind have Obito's eye? Because he is Obito  <---- Does that really sound like good writing you guys? Seriously? It's awful... Not to mention Obito is practically fodder



If Obito is fodder why would Tobi use his eyes when he has hundred others eyes ? That either means that he's using it because he found no better eye or because it's Obito, which means in both cases that Obito is far from being fodder as you want to imply.


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## bah21 (Aug 12, 2012)

sadino said:


> I'm really starting to doubt Tobi is even an Uchiha by this point.Since even his most treasured eye was stolen.His Zetsu parts would be enough for handling the sharingans...
> 
> So yeah, if anything, it got harder to predict who he is.



Huh, I'm not sure who he would be, but him actually not being an Uchiha would be interesting maybe. If he doesn't turn out to be Izuna, I'd want that.


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## Klue (Aug 13, 2012)

What's Obito's motivation?

Why the 180?


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## Moon Fang (Aug 13, 2012)

Look if Tobi is Obito in anyway or form...HE WON'T BE OBITO! For the drastic change in personality, strength, knowledge and mindset he has to have been manipulated, tortured, tricked or something. If it is Obito in any trace he's still going to be a new person and not the same one we know.


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## Jake CENA (Aug 13, 2012)

Ezekial said:


> And the why does the evil mastermind have Obito's eye? Because he is Obito  <---- Does that really sound like good writing you guys? Seriously? It's awful... Not to mention Obito is practically fodder




You see, Tobi and his pal Zetsu likes to collect Sharingans, we are not fairly sure what the reasons are, but if you ask me, Tobi is trying to look for the strongest sharingan in existence probably stronger than Shisui or his own for him to use to complete the Moon's Eye plan and I'm pretty sure he anticipated that all of the shinobi in the world will hunt him down and kill him for this so he needs the strongest eye to protect himself and eliminate threats. 



> What's Obito's motivation?
> 
> Why the 180?



Brainwashing? By genjutsu perhaps?

edit: or maybe because of Rin's death. A horrible way of dying I might add..


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## PikaCheeka (Aug 13, 2012)

It's complete garbage in every way, shape, and form.

The ONLY way it works is if Madara did such a mindfuck on him that he not only had a complete personality change and gained extreme powers in a year, but that he began to think he was Madara to such an extent that he developed the same obsessions as him and even developed similar chakra.

I love Madara but even I can admit that that's a hack job. If he can actually do _that_ to someone he's definitely too powerful for the manga, because that means his TnJ shits on Naruto's.


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## Saru (Aug 13, 2012)

I agree. It would just be a disservice to Obito, really.


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## AMtrack (Aug 13, 2012)

PikaCheeka said:


> It's complete garbage in every way, shape, and form.
> 
> The ONLY way it works is if Madara did such a mindfuck on him that he not only had a complete personality change and gained extreme powers in a year, but that he began to think he was Madara to such an extent that he developed the same obsessions as him and even developed similar chakra.
> 
> I love Madara but even I can admit that that's a hack job. If he can actually do _that_ to someone he's definitely too powerful for the manga, because that means his TnJ shits on Naruto's.



I'm sorry but look what Itachi was able to do to Sasuke.

Obito had his share of tragedy, and had a lot of regrets.  On top of that the one he entrusted his mission too basically let him down.  On top of that he had to watch someone he loved die in all likelihood (like Sasuke with his family).  Basically a series of tragedies like that will make you callous as fuck all by itself and wanting revenge.  Remember how it was said that the Uchiha clan is consumed with hatred?  Obito is an Uchiha, ergo, being consumed with hatred is not a far-out possibility.

All it takes is a little extra push and Obito would basically say "fuck this shit".  He was practically saying "fuck this shit" when he met Kakashi.  Obito never agreed nor liked the current ninja system.  Now imagine if that system was responsible for all the shit he just went through.  Of course he'd be the way he is now.  Especially with someone talking in his ear, telling him stories, increasing his disdain.

It's like what Tobi did to Sasuke to make him hate Konoha.  For god sakes all of this is par for course as far as this manga is concerned.  It fits the way this shit has been written perfectly.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 13, 2012)

AMtrack said:


> I'm sorry but look what Itachi was able to do to Sasuke.
> 
> Obito had his share of tragedy, and had a lot of regrets.  On top of that the one he entrusted his mission too basically let him down.  On top of that he had to watch someone he loved die in all likelihood (like Sasuke with his family).  Basically a series of tragedies like that will make you callous as fuck all by itself and wanting revenge.  Remember how it was said that the Uchiha clan is consumed with hatred?  Obito is an Uchiha, ergo, being consumed with hatred is not a far-out possibility.
> 
> ...


There is still the whole Madara and Tobi worked together before Madara's death on Nagato though AMtrack.


----------



## Summers (Aug 13, 2012)

♠Ace♠ said:


> Obito fans think we hate the theory because we don't want to be wrong.
> Well, that's stupid. *Why do you think we dismissed it in the first place?*
> 
> It's shit writing. Although after Nagato conversion therapy and Kurama's equally bad treatment, why am I expecting anything from this manga?



Find myself agreeing with you a lot these days.

I turned against it simply because I started seeing dozens of threads about it every single day,every single week. Like spam. Annoying.


----------



## AMtrack (Aug 13, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> There is still the whole Madara and Tobi worked together before Madara's death on Nagato though AMtrack.



It's a minor detail that can be explained away by practically anything Kishi feels like coming up with.  Authors cover up their inconsistencies all the time, it hardly breaks the theory, especially considering we don't know all the details anyway.


----------



## Summers (Aug 13, 2012)

PikaCheeka said:


> It's complete garbage in every way, shape, and form.
> 
> The ONLY way it works is if Madara did such a mindfuck on him that he not only had a complete personality change and gained extreme powers in a year, but that he began to think he was Madara to such an extent that he developed the same obsessions as him and even developed similar chakra.
> 
> I love Madara but even I can admit that that's a hack job. If he can actually do _that_ to someone he's definitely too powerful for the manga, because that means his TnJ shits on Naruto's.



If Madara could do that then why Obito of all Uchiha he could brainwash. Why not the clan head.


----------



## Talis (Aug 13, 2012)

Summers said:


> If Madara could do that then why Obito of all Uchiha he could brainwash. Why not the clan head.


Maybe because Obito reminded him of Izuna which also gave his eyes away?
Izuna also died blind in a war since he went eyeless to it, perhaps he died in a smiliar way to Obito?


----------



## PikaCheeka (Aug 13, 2012)

AMtrack said:


> I'm sorry but look what Itachi was able to do to Sasuke.
> 
> Obito had his share of tragedy, and had a lot of regrets.  On top of that the one he entrusted his mission too basically let him down.  On top of that he had to watch someone he loved die in all likelihood (like Sasuke with his family).  Basically a series of tragedies like that will make you callous as fuck all by itself and wanting revenge.  Remember how it was said that the Uchiha clan is consumed with hatred?  Obito is an Uchiha, ergo, being consumed with hatred is not a far-out possibility.
> 
> ...



Did you not read half my post?

Madara manipulated Obito SO much that he started having the same desires and interests as Madara? SO much that he started fapping over the same guy that Madara moons over? SO much that his chakra began to resemble his?

It's not just personality and motivation. It's so much more than that. Why would Obito give a flying fuck about Naruto and Sasuke fighting? Why would he care about Uchiha-Senju rivalry? Why would he act like he knows and is obsessed with Hashirama? Why does he go to VotE and sulk? Whoever he is, he's butthurt about the Senju thing. How could Obito, even a brainwashed one, possibly care about that? Is Kakashi secretly a Senju? 

Oh yea. I forgot. It's all just pretending. ALL of it. Because he's a liar, right. I lack reading comprehension. Forgive me.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 13, 2012)

PikaCheeka said:


> Did you not read half my post?
> 
> Madara manipulated Obito SO much that he started having the same desires and interests as Madara? SO much that he started fapping over the same guy that Madara moons over? SO much that his chakra began to resemble his?
> 
> ...



You're really focusing way too much on what is effectively just roleplaying combined with a healthy dose of misdirection.


----------



## Arya Stark (Aug 13, 2012)

And how good come out if he isn't?

Seriously if Izuna or Shisui do you think the reveal will have impact on readers?

*Tobi takes mask off*

Kakashi: ....Ok then.
Gai: Who are you anyway?

Kishi loves making this all emotional. It'd be really boring if he is someone we aren't connected much.

And if you take Kishi's writing good at this point, we have a problem there.


----------



## Deleted member 45015 (Aug 13, 2012)

It'd be stupid to me if it happened....

But then we've already had Nagato being converted from the Devil Incarnate to a nice guy again pretty easily. We could easily, again get the cop-out that he was influenced by someone else (probably Madara) in to becoming such a broken man.


----------



## Melas (Aug 13, 2012)

I beg to differ. Such an outcome would provide me some amusement.

First, we would have another butt-hurt Uchiha with an exaggerated sense of his own suffering and lashing out at the world.

Second, it would mean a reduction in the member of the rare specie known as a decent Uchiha.


----------



## Last Rose of Summer (Aug 13, 2012)

Melas said:


> *I beg to differ. Such an outcome would provide me some amusement.*



I'll have to agree on this one point: blondie can't tell the dead legend from dead crybaby ninja. 

At least blondie is dead now, becuase it he weren't he would commit suicide once again.


----------



## Silent Breaker (Aug 13, 2012)

tobi being obito is silly choice I think kishi made a mistake when he confirmed 
than tobi is not madara by making madara himself the sixth coffin if tobi stays madara it's much better than being a kid died from a long time


----------



## Melas (Aug 13, 2012)

Last Rose of Summer said:


> I'll have to agree on this one point: blondie can't tell the dead legend from dead crybaby ninja.
> 
> At least blondie is dead now, becuase it he weren't he would commit suicide once again.



Dead legend or dead crybaby, who cares? Its the threat they represent.

Luckily for Tobi, blondie is not alive; if he were Tobi would run away like the little bitch he is after the control of whatever plaything he has was ripped from him. Actually poor little Tobi might just quit our of fear.

Poor attempt to ridicule blondie, try harder or you could continue to fail like the Uchihas you support.


----------



## Last Rose of Summer (Aug 13, 2012)

Melas said:


> Dead legend or dead crybaby, who cares? *Its the threat they represent.*
> 
> Luckily for Tobi, blondie is not alive; if he were Tobi would run away like the little bitch he is after the control of whatever plaything he has was ripped from him. *Actually poor little Tobi might just quit our of fear.*
> 
> Poor attempt to ridicule blondie, try harder or you could continue to fail like the Uchihas you support.



Nice contradiction right there. But right, right: Minato killed himself because of Tobi who you see as fearful shit. The more you dismiss Tobi's powers, the shittier Minato's death looks like.

Poor little Tobi made blondie think he (Tobi) is the ruler of this world, has much more to him than LOL-one-jutsu and is the great threat you try to ridicule, so blondie may not just look plain stupid for not recognizing his own student whose moves, chakra, voice etc. he should have known better than anyone else.


----------



## Melas (Aug 13, 2012)

Last Rose of Summer said:


> Nice contradiction right there. But right, right: Minato killed himself because of Tobi who you see as fearful shit. The more you dismiss Tobi's powers, the shittier Minato's death looks like.



Dude, lady whatever you are, develop the understanding to not confuse separate issues. Tobi is a fearful shit in relation to Minato but that does not mean he can't cause trouble by other means, element of surprise etc.

The contradiction is your mind. Tobi was no threat to Minato directly due to the former's incapability of causing any damage to the latter directly as evidenced by their encounter. That does not mean the cockroach could not cause trouble as evidenced by him sneaking and using a baby as diversion. Dismissing Tobi's battle prowess has no impact on Minato's judgement of him as a potential threat.

So in a "fair" battle, Tobi was shit compared to Minato, even now I don't see him being capable of causing damage to Minato himself, but unfortunately the good guys need to worry about others too. They can't just run away like the Uchiha scum to save their own hide.

I have little clue what you ramble about Minato's death. Go re-read the chapter to appreciate the real reason.

Your issue among the many that you undoubtedly have is too narrow of perspective.



> Poor little Tobi made blondie think he (Tobi) is the ruler of this world, has much more to him than LOL-one-jutsu and is the great threat you try to ridicule, so blondie may not just look plain stupid for not recognizing his own student whose moves, chakra, voice etc. he should have known better than anyone else.



Panel where Minato says Tobi could be the "ruler of the world".

What power does Tobi have? A fan? We'll see just what little Tobi can achieve with this "power".

Again the only one who looks stupid is you, there is a difference between having power and being capable of causing great damage to the world.

Now you get in ridiculous territory, please provide evidence that Tobi's voice, chakra, moves were the same as Obito's.

Yet another weak attempt, keep tying harder, you might make me work harder at a reply than Minato did with Tobi.


----------



## Missing_Nin (Aug 13, 2012)

Klue said:


> What's Obito's motivation?
> 
> Why the 180?



he's trying to find peace through his way.


----------



## Last Rose of Summer (Aug 13, 2012)

Melas said:


> Dude, lady whatever you are, develop the understanding to not confuse separate issues. Tobi is a fearful shit in relation to Minato but that does not mean he can't cause trouble by other means, element of surprise etc.
> 
> The contradiction is your mind. Tobi was no threat to Minato directly due to the former's incapability of causing any damage to the latter directly as evidenced by their encounter. That does not mean the cockroach could not cause trouble as evidenced by him sneaking and using a baby as diversion. Dismissing Tobi's battle prowess has no impact on Minato's judgement of him as a potential threat.
> 
> ...







Melas said:


> Panel where Minato says Tobi could be the "ruler of the world".
> 
> What power does Tobi have? A fan? We'll see just what little Tobi can achieve with this "power".
> 
> ...



Link removed

Tobi: "I am the ruler of the world... I have many means at my disposal."
Minato: "That feeling... he's not lying."

You are really making yourself laughable. Your dear Minato the Great has seen and acknowledged Tobi as threat, you can't. And if he was so superb as you paint him to be, he would have killed Tobi, not left him to his son.


----------



## Melas (Aug 13, 2012)

I'll take that as concession that you have no real response to defend your babbling earlier. Well that's perfectly in keeping with what I remember of you.



> Link removed
> 
> Tobi: "I am the ruler of the world... I have many means at my disposal."
> Minato: "That feeling... he's not lying."
> ...



Oh the absurdity. Read the very page you post and try to discern what exactly Minato was agreeing to. Tobi babbled on about quiet a few things and you chose to highlight a moronic _hyperbole_. 

"The ruler of the world" has to hide in shadows and run away like a bitch after being destroyed in a fight! Your posts have apparently improved in humor content, barely so but still noticeable. Moreover ruler of world that no one knows about; what is this, a _conspiracy theory_?

"The ruler of the world" who no one _acknowledges_. What does little Tobi rule over? _His imaginary kingdom?_ That you take such a ridiculous comment seriously depicts how delusional and desperate you are.

Are you incapable of comprehension? Being a threat to the world does not have to necessarily do anything with _battle prowess_, which is what I am making fun of with regards to Tobi as compared to Minato.

I also notice you chose not to address your ridiculous notion about Minato should have recognized Obito when I asked you for any rationale. So another _concession _of a flawed argument from your side.

What absurd logic? The fight did not even continue, how do you know what would have happened to poor little Tobi had it continued? "He would have killed if he was capable." Poor reasoning as usual.

Even so, Minato could damage Tobi and frighten him away, Tobi could not even hurt Minato. Poor little Tobi, "ruler of the _world_" indeed.

Also, as I mentioned before, Minato has to deal with saving others, he can't leave the village in strife and run after the little bitch Tobi as and when he pleases.

Dude/lady you already are laughable and have been so every time I have had the pleasure to respond to your posts. Narrow perspectives, barely rational arguments, amusing perspective have been the their hallmark.

I have elaborated enough how being a threat has nothing to with Tobi with a joke compared to Minato. Its for all to read and make up there own mind. Point stands Tobi was nothing to Minato.

Go on amuse me some more with your comments while poorly attempting to insult me and _avoiding _addressing the raised points.


----------



## αce (Aug 13, 2012)

Since I'm convinced Madara died when Nagato obtained his Rinnegan, I'm going to dismiss the theory unless a backstory which clearly shows Obito becoming Tobi unfolds. Until then.


----------



## Last Rose of Summer (Aug 13, 2012)

Melas said:


> I'll take that as concession that you have no real response to defend your babbling earlier. Well that's perfectly in keeping with what I remember of you.



Have you ever heard a term "Phyrric victory"?



Melas said:


> Oh the absurdity. Read the very page you post and try to discern what exactly Minato was agreeing to. Tobi babbled on about quiet a few things and you chose to highlight a moronic hyperbole.



Your Minato the Great acted on that "moronic hyperbole" as he saw in his son the CoP being the one able to stop "a bitch destroyed in a fight!" 



Melas said:


> *"The ruler of the world" has to hide in shadows* *and run away like a bitch after being destroyed in a fight!* Your posts have apparently improved in humor content, barely so but still noticeable. Moreover ruler of world that no one knows about; what is this, a conspiracy theory?



He is ninja. What do you excpect?



Melas said:


> "The ruler of the world" who no one acknowledges. You truly are delusional.



It doesn't matter that the world doesn't acknowledge Tobi as "ruler". It matters that Minato believed in Tobi's words. In Tobi's EVERY WORD. If they are truth or not is another story.



Melas said:


> Are you incapable of comprehension? Being a threat to the world does not have to necessarily do anything with battle prowess, which is what I am making fun of with regards to Tobi as compared to Minato.



The true winner is the one being still alive and wrecking havoc. And Minato chills in hell. Because of LOLObito.



Melas said:


> I also notice you chose not to address your ridiculous notion about Minato should have recognized Obito when I asked you for any rationale. So another concession of a flawed argument from your side.



Of course he should: either he is super ?ber genius that notices everything or he is imcapable of it. He was his teacher after all.



Melas said:


> What absurd logic? The fight did not even continue, how do you know what would have happened to poor little Tobi had it continued? "He would have killed if he was capable." Poor reasoning as usual.



Nothing would happen to Tobi. Your super Minato would have disposed of threat if he could, but didn't have "special skills/power" like he himself stated and you ignore.



Melas said:


> Even so, Minato could damage Tobi and frighten him away, Tobi could not even hurt Minato. Poor little Tobi, "ruler of the world" indeed.
> 
> You already are laughable and have been every time I have had the opportunity to respond to your posts. Narrow perspectives, barely rational arguments have been the their hallmark.
> 
> ...



Yes, Minato the Great solos. He currently solos in Death God belly. My fav character always on top is all that matters. The space and time have to bend to my favorite character. Power-level fanatics. Always think only in power-levels categories, plot can go fuck itself.


----------



## Melas (Aug 13, 2012)

Last Rose of Summer said:


> Have you ever heard a term "Phyrric victory"?



No, my knowledge of the English language and its various dimensions is highly limited as should be evident by my posts here.

I have even had people bitching at me to "improve" my usage of the language.



> Your Minato the Great acted on that "moronic hyperbole" as he saw in his son the CoP being the one able to stop "a bitch destroyed in a fight!"



He acted on a potential threat not some ridiculous hyperbole. Learn to differentiate substance from hyperbole.



> He is ninja. What do you excpect?



Kages are ninjas and they rule, they don't have to hide, so why does little Tobi? Afraid no one will give him what he wants, some ruler.



> It doesn't matter that the world doesn't acknowledge Tobi as "ruler". It matters that Minato believed in Tobi's words. In Tobi's EVERY WORD. If they are truth or not is another story.



"A ruler of the world" that no one acknowledges, he must rule over the ga-ga land you reside in too.

Well in the absence of real arguments, you have no choice but to rely on laughable hyperbole.

Since you used caps, prove to me he believed _every_ word. It is actually an absurd notion to claim certainty in this regard given the various points Tobi made while babbling. Its as best a working assumption, but given that it is moronic hyperbole, even that argument falls flat.



> The true winner is the one being still alive and wrecking havoc. And Minato chills in hell. Because of LOLObito.



So you are incapable of comprehension. What does being a winner have to do with the ridiculous notion you made about threat being related to battle prowess? Tobi had already scurried away like the bitch he is when Minato sealed Kurama.

Actually the true winner is who actually achieves their goal, something poor little Tobi _never ever_ will.

Truly, Minato is chilling with his fellow hokages while little Tobi struggles to hold onto his absurd dreams.

There are lots of losers alive in the world and lots of greats are dead. Your argument like other you make is fundamentally flawed.



> Of course he should: either he is super ?ber genius that notices everything or he is imcapable of it. He was his teacher after all.



Again an absurd argument.

You have to show that Tobi was identical enough to Obito in the respects you mentioned for him to be recognized. "Of course" he should is not an argument of any worth. You make inherent assumptions that you need to prove.



> othing would happen to Tobi. Your super Minato would have disposed of threat if he could, but didn't have "special skills/power" like he himself stated and you ignore.



Another "would have if he could have" kind of argument doesn't work. Prove to a certainty or stop babbling, which is not possible as the battle did not continue.

You also ignored how Minato had other concerns beside the little bitch Tobi.

I ignore nothing. There is no way for you to prove what would have happened if Tobi had not run away like, only conjecture.

Do you know what those skills are if you claim Minato did not possess them?



> Yes, Minato the Great solos. He currently solos in Death God belly. My fav character always on top is all that matters. The space and time have to bend to my favorite character. Power-level fanatics. Always think only in power-levels categories, plot can go fuck itself.



Useless rant, this time not even amusing.

I have repeated several times, I don't question Tobi's threat as a overall character to the world, only his ability as a threat to Minato in a battle.

You will of course choose to intentionally conflate the two separate issues as you have no other option.

From your posts its apparent that you consider rationality should go fuck itself.


----------



## hitokugutsu (Aug 13, 2012)

Ow man, Tobito believers are gonna be anally raped in the upcoming 3 chapters 

So many plot holes with Tobi being Obito, its hard to believe he still has supporters. 

Also since recent chapter Kishi made 100% obvious Tobi has Obito's eye. Now if he truly was Obito why extend this whole charade for upcoming chapters


----------



## Summers (Aug 13, 2012)

First Tsurugi said:


> You're really focusing way too much on what is effectively just roleplaying combined with a healthy dose of misdirection.



So ignore everything that points to him not being Obito. Why is that role-playing and misdirection. If we think like that then What you think points to him being Obito is role-playing and misdirection.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 13, 2012)

Summers said:


> So ignore everything that points to him not being Obito. Why is that role-playing and misdirection. If we think like that then What you think points to him being Obito is role-playing and misdirection.



Because there's hard evidence that he can't be Madara. So everything he did and stated as Madara gets thrown into question if it cannot be verified some other way.

If they Edo Tensei'd Obito I'd be saying the same thing.


----------



## Last Rose of Summer (Aug 13, 2012)

Melas said:


> No, my knowledge of the English language and its various dimensions is highly limited as should be evident by my posts here.
> 
> I have even had people bitching at me to "improve" my usage of the language.



Uncle Google and Aunt Wiki are your friends!



Melas said:


> He acted on a potential threat not some ridiculous hyperbole. Learn to differentiate substance from hyperbole.



Nope. His reaction was shitting himself, because Tobi gave him "feeling".



Melas said:


> Kages are ninjas and they rule, they don't have to hide, so why does little Tobi? Afraid no one will give him what he wants, some ruler.



They rule in *Hidden* Villages.



Melas said:


> *"A ruler of the world" that no one acknowledges*, he must rule over the ga-ga land you reside in too.
> 
> Well in the absence of real arguments, you have no choice but to rely on laughable hyperbole.
> 
> Since you used caps, prove to me he believed _every_ word. *It is actually an absurd notion to claim certainty in this regard given the various points Tobi made while babbling*.* Its as best a working assumption, but given that it is moronic hyperbole*, even that argument falls flat.



Accusing Tobi of lying here? Good. That's what I think too. He lied to Minato, but all Minato thought was "He isn't lying". And killed himself.



Melas said:


> So you are incapable of comprehension. What does being a winner have to do with the ridiculous notion you made about threat being related to battle prowess? Tobi had already scurried away like the bitch he is when Minato sealed Kurama.
> 
> Actually the true winner is who actually achieves their goal, something poor little Tobi _never ever_ will.
> 
> ...



Never made that notion. It's somewhere in your brain though: reading things adversary has never written.

Minato won't achieve any goals. He left the job to others.

Hope they enjoy the hell.



Melas said:


> Again an absurd argument.
> 
> You have to show that Tobi was identical enough to Obito in the respects you mentioned for him to be recognized. "Of course" he should is not an argument of any worth. You make inherent assumptions that you need to prove.



No, he was Madara Uchiha, even Kurama approves.



Melas said:


> Another "would have if he could have" kind of argument doesn't work. Prove to a certainty or stop babbling, which is not possible as the battle did not continue.
> 
> You also ignored how Minato had other concerns beside the little bitch Tobi.
> 
> ...



But you of course know with certainity how it would end.

Those concerns were "the little bitch Tobi's" doing. Hence: Pyrrhic victory for Minato.

Ask Minato about "those skills", not me. No idea what he had on mind when showed Kurama up his son's arse.



Melas said:


> Useless rant, this time not even amusing.
> 
> I have repeated several times, *I* don't *question Tobi's* threat as a overall character to the world, *only his ability as a threat to Minato in a battle*.
> 
> ...



Which was something I've never argued. But you like to tilt with windmills.


----------



## balthosai (Aug 15, 2012)

yea, sucks that Obito, who was overall a better human being than young/arrogant Kakashi would end up being a villian.

however, it is what it is.


----------



## Revolution (Aug 15, 2012)

No good has come from TOBI.  Whats your point?


----------



## egressmadara (Aug 15, 2012)

I hope Kishi would make extreme sense out of it if Obito was Tobi. Otherwise, he's making shit up for the purpose of plot.


----------



## Tony Lou (Aug 15, 2012)

The idea of bringing back a character supposedly dead decades ago and corrupting him is good.

But no fan has yet figured out what the hell could serve as motivation for a guy who seemed to have no regrets while beneath the rocks.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 15, 2012)

Luiz said:


> The idea of bringing back a character supposedly dead decades ago and corrupting him is good.
> 
> But no fan has yet figured out what the hell could serve as motivation for a guy who seemed to have no regrets while beneath the rocks.



Rin dying is a good starting point.


----------



## P-X 12 (Aug 15, 2012)

Nope, it won't happen. Why? Because it makes no damn sense.

If this is gonna happen, some stuff's gonna have to be explained. Some of which include:

1. How the hell did he age so fast? 
2. What the hell is up with his body? Seriously, how does he regrow limbs and look like a Zetsu, then turn human all of a sudden?!
3 *How in the fuck did he survive HALF OF HIS BODY BEING CRUSHED BY A BOULDER?! On that note, HOW IS HIS EYE STILL INTACT?!! *
4. Why is he evil? And no, genjutsu is not a valid answer, since the one genjutsu that can actually do that was in the hands of a person who didn't unlock it yet.

Since none of these can be answered without a bullshit explanation, it can't be him. AT ALL. Moreover, why should it be him? To have an over-arching story with a character that, in all honesty, has no huge relevance in the plot? If so, that is the dumbest and most forced thing I've seen in the whole damn manga. It basically states "Yeah, turning evil isn't something that takes a while or a traumatic event! People can just become evil for no discernible reason and have an absolutely ridiculous idea that requires far too much planning and effort for it to be worth it for most people that could have been completed looong ago if the antagonist had fucking brain somewhere." It also throws it's own already stupid logic out the window so that an unimportant character who has no purpose becomes the lead villain behind most of the crap in this series, and then some for his age, power and a whole slew of other stuff. And honestly, if that's the case, I'd rather have the ramen guy as Tobi. At least that is barely debatable.

Good god, who thought of this shit theory in the first place?!


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 15, 2012)

Phx12 said:


> 1. How the hell did he age so fast?



He didn't.



> 2. What the hell is up with his body? Seriously, how does he regrow limbs and look like a Zetsu, then turn human all of a sudden?!



You answered your own question.

He's using the same stuff Zetsu's made out of to repair himself.



> 3 *How in the fuck did he survive HALF OF HIS BODY BEING CRUSHED BY A BOULDER?! On that note, HOW IS HIS EYE STILL INTACT?!! *



You're asking this with a One Piece set?

Fictional characters can survive many a grievous injury thanks to all manner of plot devices.



> 4. Why is he evil?



We'll find out when he gets his motive rant.

Is that the best you've got? Yawn.


----------



## Noctis Dragneel (Aug 15, 2012)

Phx12 said:


> On that note, HOW IS HIS EYE STILL INTACT?!!




I'll just quote myself from another thread.


> Have you ever been crushed by a rock or some extremely heavy object? THE EYE DOES NOT GET DAMAGED BECAUSE IT'S INSIDE A SOCKET. You brain is more likely to explode before your eye gets damaged and seeing as how Obito wasn't turned into mush his right eye was perfectly fine. I am sick of hearing ppl repeat the same thing over and over again.


----------



## Talis (Aug 15, 2012)

Phx12 said:


> Nope, it won't happen. Why? Because it makes no damn sense.
> 
> If this is gonna happen, some stuff's gonna have to be explained. Some of which include:
> 
> ...


Sorry but ur questions are really stupid, instead asking the real deals for the Tobito theory you ask dumb questions, anyways;
1-3: Duh, a freaking rock of 2 tons fell on him, of course his face would like that with a bunch of scars, at chapter 486 you can see Tobi looking at Zetsu with his opposite face side; 
Theres no sign of wrinkles/bags/scars on his opposite face side and this was also obviously the reason why Kishi blackened out that face side at Konans fight.
2: His body is merged with Zetsu to replace his lost limbs...
4: Nagato, Itachi, Orochimaru, Neji, Gaara, and a lot of more indeed didnt turn from a bad/good character to an opposite one.

And lol, his eye doesnt gets destroyed but his head does?
I am saying this already for months, the boulder didnt crush his head as you can clearly see the boulder resting on his head.


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## P-X 12 (Aug 15, 2012)

> He didn't.



Then how does he look older than Kakashi? 



> You answered your own question.



No, I asked why his arm acted like it was made of Zetsu parts back when he fought Minato, and why it asks like a normal human arm now.



> He's using the same stuff Zetsu's made out of to repair himself.



This I have a problem with. If his arm used Zetsu parts to heal itself, it would not have been that fast. Hell, if Naruto's Rasengan is anywhere near his fathers', the damn thing should have popped off, especially seeing how it hit his shoulder and not anywhere else on his arm.



> You're asking this with a One Piece set?



Don't try to pull this card. At least with One Piece, this crap mainly happens with side caracters and not the main villain of the whole story.



> Fictional characters can survive many a grievous injury thanks to all manner of plot devices.



So you admit this only works with a plot device. Good to know.




> We'll find out when he gets his motive rant.



What motives could he possibly have for this crap? It was only a year! What, did Rin's death cause him to go insane?  



> Is that the best you've got? Yawn.



I've got some more if you'd like. 

1) Who taught him any of this crap? There's no way the kid who was crap compared to a kid Kakashi can go from that to being able to unseal Bijuu and seriosly fight against Minato for any amount of time exceeding two seconds? It can't be any of the Uchiha since none of them know who he really is, nor does anybody have powers like his; the closest is in Kakashi, and he needs MS to do that. There's no way he was self taught either; there's no way in hell your getting that much of a boost on your own in just a year, using techniques you've never seen before at the age of 13.

2) Moreover, why the hell was the first we see him do was to go after his old mentor? Pain, I can understand; all of the crap his life was caused by Konoha shinobi. Obito had no ill will towards Konoha, and had connections with people in it. I doubt the death of Rin could have been by Konoha shinobi, and his own "death" was the work of the Stone Village. You don't go from loving your village to wanting to destroy it with a giant fox without some serious crap going on.

How does he know about all of the old crap? No one, not even other Uchiha seem to know what he knows. He knows about:

The old legend of the Ten Tails and how to re-create it.
How to control Bijuu without much problem. Don't use the Madara or Sasuke examples. One is a top tier Uchiha, while the other has far more control over the Sharingan than Obito has ever shown.
The powers of the Gedo Mazo.
How to give other people the Rinnegan, in his case Nagato-

Whoa, whoa whoa. Wait. I just remembered something.

Tobi mentions at one point that he's the one who gave Nagato his Rinnegan. Nagato unlocked that crap at a young age after seeing his parents get murdered in front of him. How did he give Nagato the Rinnegan? Nagato's way older than Obito would be if he were still alive, and gained it way before Obito's death. How would he give it to him?


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## posternojutsu (Aug 15, 2012)

Phx12 said:


> Nope, it won't happen. Why? Because it makes no damn sense.
> 
> If this is gonna happen, some stuff's gonna have to be explained. Some of which include:
> 
> ...



It being stupid or not isn't the issue...it is that people keep bringing what you say in the bold as if it changes anything. I said this in another thread that Kishi himself obviously doesn't have an issue with a rapid change or one that seemingly makes little sense. 

Naruto who brofists bijuu, read Nagato a bedtime story and befriends him even though he murdered Jiraya and supposedly conquered his own hate at the waterfall of truth...is told by Itachi that he better watch it because he could become just like Tobi. If Naruto at that point in the manga was still in danger of becoming like Tobi...why is the idea of Obito turning into a douchebag so hard for people to accept? Like others said if Rin died and he feels it is Kakashi's fault, the ninja systems fault etc etc....it really isn't far fetched. Someone you are in love with dying at the hands of a system you don't believe in (which Obito plainly stated) is a pretty big push to become an evil bastard. 

One last thing is...how is this sudden anyway? If we ignore the other timeline issues isn't it something like a year or two (someone confirm please) from when Obito dies to when he becomes Tobi supposedly? How is that sudden? A year or two is more than enough to warp someones perception of things.


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## Battoumaru (Aug 15, 2012)

Luiz said:


> The idea of bringing back a character supposedly dead decades ago and corrupting him is good.
> 
> But no fan has yet figured out what the hell could serve as motivation for a guy *who seemed to have no regrets* while beneath the rocks.



He voiced his regrets.

His last two confirmed lines were him voicing his regrets.


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