# This convo can sleep for centuries, to wake when it's least expected.



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 11, 2010)

This is the new Lit Dept Conversation. And no a cat didn't get in here...that's just Masamune bawing.


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## masamune1 (Dec 11, 2010)

First Post! Yeah!


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## masamune1 (Dec 11, 2010)

I Shall Have REVENGE!

*EDIT-* And I choose to interpret the title as pertaining to that vengeance.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 11, 2010)

Oh man


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## Pintsize (Dec 13, 2010)

oh you kids

you should practice the three C's like dino-sherlock


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 13, 2010)

Pintsize said:


> oh you kids
> 
> you should practice the three C's like dino-sherlock


DIno-Sherlock? Is he like Raptor Jesus?


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## sel (Dec 16, 2010)

A few hours ago. That elevator/lift Smiths scene from (500) Days of Summer. Though it was on the metro and she was reading _100 Years of Solitude_.

Today's been good, and I've not even had my post-Uni cup of tea yet.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 16, 2010)

sel said:


> A few hours ago. That elevator/lift Smiths scene from (500) Days of Summer. Though it was on the metro and she was reading _100 Years of Solitude_.
> 
> Today's been good, and I've not even had my post-Uni cup of tea yet.


I really wanted to see 500 Days of Summer but I totally forgot why or what it was about. I still think I will watch it.


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## Pintsize (Dec 20, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> DIno-Sherlock? Is he like Raptor Jesus?



as far as dinosaur comparisons go, sure, why not.

my only thoughts on the matter is that while Raptor Jesus is busy getting nailed to a tree, Dino Sherlock has already caught the bastards and thrown them away for life


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## sel (Dec 24, 2010)

Happy Christmas your arse, I pray god it's our last <3


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## masamune1 (Dec 24, 2010)

The boys in the NYPD choir still singing Galway Bay

And the bells are ringing out 

For Christmas Day. 

And if it is the last, I will kill sel for jinxing it.


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## Dream Brother (Dec 24, 2010)

Have a great xmas, guys. (And listen to WHAM!)


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## sel (Dec 25, 2010)

I think I've already linked this to you DB, but I'll do it here just generally. I love this Christmas album


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## Garfield (Dec 25, 2010)

Happy Christmas you Grinches

gimme some Grifts


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## sel (Dec 27, 2010)

I've spent the last week wondering why everybody's been throwing Stephen King novels at me.

Then It hit me.


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## Garfield (Dec 27, 2010)

Ahhh! how come I never noticed It was Grinch


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## Happy Mask Salesman (Dec 28, 2010)

I spent three days working tirelessly on something. After rereading it, I realized it was crap. Now, my projects are becoming better. I think.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 28, 2010)

At least three days isn't long


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Dec 28, 2010)

I once tried to be part of a convo thread, but then I realized I had nothing I wanted to conversate about save how strange it is to try and convo when you're not trying to....

......


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## masamune1 (Dec 28, 2010)

Cthulhu-versailles said:


> I once tried to be part of a convo thread, but then I realized I had nothing I wanted to conversate about save how strange it is to try and convo when you're not trying to....
> 
> ......



Get your ass back to the Roleplaying Forum!


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 28, 2010)

The role playing forum is mostly dead these days. People just start games seemingly weekly to watch them die.


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## masamune1 (Dec 28, 2010)

The one we're playing has been going strong for a few weeks. It's got enough dedicated members and the next few story arcs are all planned out. It's going to last awhile yet.

Though CV still needs to get moving with his storyline, since it's part of one of my characters too.


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## Tyrael (Dec 31, 2010)

Have a good new year when it comes, you inactive bastards - hopefully we'll be seeing a few of you (including myself, admittedly)  around a bit more in 2011.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 31, 2010)

masamune1 said:


> The one we're playing has been going strong for a few weeks. It's got enough dedicated members and the next few story arcs are all planned out. It's going to last awhile yet.
> 
> Though CV still needs to get moving with his storyline, since it's part of one of my characters too.


My game is still active, though its a small band and the Harry Potter RP I am about to start is going to be a small band again, I haven't played much in any other games in a long time with the exception of Soul Nova's D&D


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## masamune1 (Dec 31, 2010)

Your Whitefall RPG' OP gave me an idea for a story.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 31, 2010)

masamune1 said:


> Your Whitefall RPG' OP gave me an idea for a story.


Cool, is it called Hookers on a Stormy Night? 

I actually have a little short story about Whitefall and the characters before they came to Whitefall in Muks old game, it's just random things that happened to us.


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## masamune1 (Dec 31, 2010)

Well, it's actually pretty different from your thing. 

It's just the basic idea of a ship caught on in a storm and survivors in a new land. 'Cept there is only one survivor, ánd she is quickly taken to a strange city full of white buildings where she is welcomed and treated well, but it becomes clear the city as not as utopian as it first seems. There is an unseen ruler and the city is a theocracy worshipping a lesser god, who is summoned and has to grant the girl permission to stay. Eventually she uncovers all sorts of conspiracy stuff and hidden secrets

I would set it in a Discworld/ D & D -esque fantasy series; so, basically, I'd like to make a fantasy world where I can set a whole bunch of unconnected stories, and this would be one of them.

Probably won't end up writing it though. I'm terrible at actually putting pen to paper with my ideas.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 31, 2010)

masamune1 said:


> Well, it's actually pretty different from your thing.
> 
> It's just the basic idea of a ship caught on in a storm and survivors in a new land. 'Cept there is only one survivor, ?nd she is quickly taken to a strange city full of white buildings where she is welcomed and treated well, but it becomes clear the city as not as utopian as it first seems. There is an unseen ruler and the city is a theocracy worshipping a lesser god, who is summoned and has to grant the girl permission to stay. Eventually she uncovers all sorts of conspiracy stuff and hidden secrets
> 
> ...



Sounds like a good concept, you should write it. I don't know much about Discworld, I haven't actually read any of the books or anything.


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## masamune1 (Dec 31, 2010)

Well, I just meant the basic idea of having a single fantasy world to set a bunch of different stories in. Which isn't the important thing; it's just somwthing I've thought about.

Discworld is pretty good, though it gets a bit formulaic.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 1, 2011)

masamune1 said:


> Well, I just meant the basic idea of having a single fantasy world to set a bunch of different stories in. Which isn't the important thing; it's just somwthing I've thought about.
> 
> Discworld is pretty good, though it gets a bit formulaic.


I meant to check into discworld some but I just never got into it fully. 

I kind of like the idea of setting a lot of stories in a single world, but my world is very similar to the world we live in with the added bonus of fantasy creatures to some degree. Even then I don't know if I could ever set multiple stories in that world


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## Tyrael (Jan 5, 2011)

Place your bets now!

This show...


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Jan 9, 2011)

any of you guys enter any writing contest lately?

Also, would you rather use this fancy new junky way of getting your stuff published not even in print, or go the traditionally route. This is off course assuming you have the choice to make.


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## Dream Brother (Jan 13, 2011)




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## jux (Jan 14, 2011)

Just got the complete series of the sandman. Aw hell yea.


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## Tyrael (Jan 14, 2011)

Currently struggling to find the 4th volume of Sandman. For some reason not been having much luck.


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## jux (Jan 15, 2011)

Yeah, you need to buy them to read them. It's pretty impossible to find in Libraries. That or they've all got like 10383212389137 reserves, so it's a bitch of a wait. 

I just cannot believe how much of a imaginative genius Gaiman is.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 19, 2011)

TV Tropes just pointed me to this...the oldest story on FF.net


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## Tyrael (Jan 19, 2011)

Nobody got raped? Count me surprised. Unless the whole thing was a giant metaphor for sexual abuse.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 19, 2011)

Tyrael said:


> Nobody got raped? Count me surprised. Unless the whole thing was a giant metaphor for sexual abuse.


This is old fan fiction the constant threat of rape didn't make the scene for a while.

I think LifeTime had an effect on Fan Fiction.


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## Tyrael (Jan 19, 2011)

LifeTime?  .


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 19, 2011)

Tyrael said:


> LifeTime?  .


Life Time is the station that says is made for women, but it typically seems to be made with the idea that all women want to watch is movies about other women who can't have kids and get raped and or beaten by some guy until they kill him or empower themselves by finding another guy. It's all very silly and depressing and they show movies you've never heard of with no name actors.

I suspect the raping thing started there and spread like a virus to Fan Fiction.


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## Lord Yu (Jan 19, 2011)

I demand JUSTICE!


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## Tyrael (Jan 19, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Life Time is the station that says is made for women, but it typically seems to be made with the idea that all women want to watch is movies about other women who can't have kids and get raped and or beaten by some guy until they kill him or empower themselves by finding another guy. It's all very silly and depressing and they show movies you've never heard of with no name actors.
> 
> I suspect the raping thing started there and spread like a virus to Fan Fiction.



I'd imagine it's more people trying to be sensationalist under the pretention of being dark and edgy - true art is angsty after all. Or possibly just people have no concept of tone.

I think there's a chance it stems from young women (mainly) trying to make sense of sex and sexuality as a whole, or not really getting rape. I guess I could suggest it relates to disillusionment of society's treatment of sex, and sexual power balances, showing how many women see the power in the hands of the man  to the point of oppression (hence the rape) and the desire for a more innocent and balanced world.

Okay, I've no idea where that last paragraph came from. I think someone might have put something in my tea.



Lord Yu said:


> I demand JUSTICE!



Of the ill defined and obviously malicious sort?

Edit - 

2nd Edit - Lol, astrology.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 24, 2011)

MbS said:


> I thought NF was just changing its domain name?


Yeah to something stupid, I don't like that shit either and Viz has no right here. Site was registered before Viz bought the rights.


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## Dream Brother (Jan 24, 2011)

I'm just going to stay out of the debate in the other thread, as it seems people are getting quite heated about this. Personally, I have no strong stance on this either way -- bit of a 'meh' issue. 

Back to figuring out which book to read next...Ty recommended _The Prestige_, so I may go for that.


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## Velocity (Jan 24, 2011)

Dream Brother said:


> I'm just going to stay out of the debate in the other thread, as it seems people are getting quite heated about this. Personally, I have no strong stance on this either way -- bit of a 'meh' issue.
> 
> Back to figuring out which book to read next...Ty recommended _The Prestige_, so I may go for that.



Is that the one the film was based on?

I'm looking into picking up Never Let Me Go by Kazuo Ishiguro. It's not exactly very long, it's only about 300 pages long, but if it's anything like the film then it'll be a pretty damn good book. But, then again, I really should finish The Child Thief first.

Also got to remember to pick up Cherie Priest's Dreadnought. I loved Boneshaker, steampunk is a really underexplored genre it seems, so I should dig that one too.


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## Tyrael (Jan 24, 2011)

Lyra said:


> Is that the one the film was based on?



Based somewhat loosely. The film is a lot more melodramatic and and predictable, treating the story like a typical action/thriller type thing set in Victorian England. The book is a slow, subtle and brilliant. The film is easier get into, but if you don't mind thinking the book is far, far superior.


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## Dream Brother (Jan 24, 2011)

Lyra said:


> Is that the one the film was based on?
> 
> I'm looking into picking up Never Let Me Go by Kazuo Ishiguro. It's not exactly very long, it's only about 300 pages long, but if it's anything like the film then it'll be a pretty damn good book. But, then again, I really should finish The Child Thief first.
> 
> Also got to remember to pick up Cherie Priest's Dreadnought. I loved Boneshaker, steampunk is a really underexplored genre it seems, so I should dig that one too.



I haven't seen the film version, but Ishiguro's _Never Let Me Go_ was a really good read. Very easy to sink into, and it hits quite hard at the end.


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## Nimander (Jan 24, 2011)

Just finished reading "Best Served Cold" by Joe Abercrombie.  Surprisingly nice book, and one of the few good standalone fantasy books I've read in the past few years.  Strongly recommend it.

As for the domain name changing, as long as I can continue to find this site and access its features, I couldn't care less what it's renamed to.  People place too much emphasis on a name, when it's the content of the site that's more important.  

Now, if Viz was telling NF to stop dealing in all things Naruto, or in all things related to manga they have the rights to, then I'd consider jumping on the protest bandwagon.


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## Dream Brother (Jan 24, 2011)

[YOUTUBE]jKqTa3CJMEo[/YOUTUBE]



> Just finished reading "Best Served Cold" by Joe Abercrombie. Surprisingly nice book, and one of the few good standalone fantasy books I've read in the past few years. Strongly recommend it.



Abercrombie is top stuff. His new book comes out soon, if I remember right...


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## masamune1 (Jan 25, 2011)

Lyra said:


> Better? Not really... Kishimoto has resorted to pointless fanservice to appease the fans, rather than an actual satisfying "war". You know a story is going down hill when the writer resurrects pretty much every named character for one final battle...



It's improved on the last few arcs where the focus was too much on Sasuke and Naruto. The former isn't balanced out by giving time to other supporting characters as in Part 1; the latter spends more time training for stuff than actually _doing_ stuff (as is happening right now). We needed more focus on the side characters and, while this is somewhat of a lazy way to do it, it is still enjoyable. And the characters themselves are generally handled well, aside from Sasori who was nerfed.

And I would'nt be so hasty in thinking that this is a "one final battle". I'm certain that Madara, at least, will survive this arc, which will probably end with Kabuto's defeat, and more stuff is to come. 

But aside from that, both _Bleach_ and _One Piece_ have surprised with timeskips out of nowhere, and now look like they will go on for another decade or so. _Naruto_ might have already had its timeskip, but being one of _Shounen Jumps'_ best selling mangas- I think I read somewhere it even started outselling OP, making it the _best_ selling one- might be in for similar treatment.  A second time skip is no longer as implausible.

All of which means, this isn't quite a "last battle" event. Regardless, at the moment, _Naruto_ is still not as good as it used to be, but there is no doubt, it has improved.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 25, 2011)

Lyra said:


> Better? Not really... Kishimoto has resorted to pointless fanservice to appease the fans, rather than an actual satisfying "war". You know a story is going down hill when the writer resurrects pretty much every named character for one final battle...


Have even more people been resurrected?


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## masamune1 (Jan 25, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Have even more people been resurrected?



The Seven Swordsmen of the Mist were the last lot brought out.

Actually, despite what Lyra says, most ressurected characters are ones we have'nt met. Gaara is up against an old Stone Kage.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 25, 2011)

masamune1 said:


> The Seven Swordsmen of the Mist were the last lot brought out.
> 
> Actually, despite what Lyra says, most ressurected characters are ones we have'nt met. Gaara is up against an old Stone Kage.



Eh, even then. I don't know, I can't imagine Naruto being made good. What I liked about it was the things in it that were different than DBZ, the characters seemed better written and the power levels seemed more balanced early on, none of that is the case now.


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## masamune1 (Jan 25, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Eh, even then. I don't know, I can't imagine Naruto being made good. What I liked about it was the things in it that were different than DBZ, the characters seemed better written and the power levels seemed more balanced early on, none of that is the case now.



It has got back to that a bit. The current arc means there are a lot more characters getting the spotlight, which a much greater variety of powers. Since the bad guys are all undead, too, that means power levels don't play as big a part, and most of them are being brought down by tactics.

Like I said, it's not _as good_ as it used to be, but for the moment it's better than it was, and harkens back, if only slightly, to better times.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 25, 2011)

masamune1 said:


> It has got back to that a bit. The current arc means there are a lot more characters getting the spotlight, which a much greater variety of powers. Since the bad guys are all undead, too, that means power levels don't play as big a part, and most of them are being brought down by tactics.
> 
> Like I said, it's not _as good_ as it used to be, but for the moment it's better than it was, and harkens back, if only slightly, to better times.


I can't even bring myself to try it anymore after the terrible shit I was put through from the Pain fight on out.


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## masamune1 (Jan 25, 2011)

I've had this urge for some time to try my hand at an epic fan-fic that would basically be _Naruto: Part 2_ as I would have done it, but that would require an insane amount of time and patience.

Though I have'nt entirelly dropped the idea. If nothing else it would be good writing practice. 

Pain fight was fine, up to the actual fighting bit. I thought his inital attack on Konoha was really good, and his battle with Kakashi was'nt bad either, even if his fight with Naruto was lackluster (though at least Naruto actually got to fight for once) and destroying the village might have been a bit too over the top.

Though, for me, the real jump the shark moment would be somewhere between either the reveal that Madara is Tobi, or- and I'm leaning to this- the Itachi fight and the reveal about him.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 25, 2011)

masamune1 said:


> I've had this urge for some time to try my hand at an epic fan-fic that would basically be _Naruto: Part 2_ as I would have done it, but that would require an insane amount of time and patience.
> 
> Though I have'nt entirelly dropped the idea. If nothing else it would be good writing practice.
> 
> Pain fight was fine, up to the actual fighting bit. I thought his inital attack on Konoha was really good, and his battle with Kakashi was'nt bad either, even if his fight with Naruto was lackluster (though at least Naruto actually got to fight for once).



I liked it all until Hinata got stabbed and didn't die and the people of the town were all like "Hey we're okay!" 

Naruto fan fiction is hard to write from what I've heard. Part II as it should have been is probably a common writing topic.


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## masamune1 (Jan 25, 2011)

It might be common, but I'd put a bit too much effort into it. 

I would'nt actually deviate from the story in some ways, and I'd probably have to write the same events from different perspectives too keep it fresh. Though, I suppose I should check it out first before I go on about how different mine will be.

As for Hinata, well even if she _did_ die, Nagato would have brought her back.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 25, 2011)

masamune1 said:


> It might be common, but I'd put a bit too much effort into it.
> 
> I would'nt actually deviate from the story in some ways, and I'd probably have to write the same events from different perspectives too keep it fresh. Though, I suppose I should check it out first before I go on about how different mine will be.
> 
> As for Hinata, well even if she _did_ die, Nagato would have brought her back.



I think a lot of people should have just died there...

And yeah, I see stories like that all of the time, changes to canon and the like that keep some of the things the same, which is cool and all, its not entirely bad. 

You'd be shocked at the effort expended on some things.


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## masamune1 (Jan 25, 2011)

Thats a buzz kill.

Any links?

Well, anyway, I'll just have to have faith that my fan fic, if I ever write it, will be bigger and better than the rest.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 25, 2011)

masamune1 said:


> Thats a buzz kill.
> 
> Any links?
> 
> Well, anyway, I'll just have to have faith that my fan fic, if I ever write it, will be bigger and better than the rest.


Most of what I read is Harry Potter stuff, tried Doctor Who but it all seems to be Doctor and Rose love stories. But in regards to Harry Potter a good example of loads of effort makes me think immediately of After the End



The story is 474,000 words long and there's a lot of expended effort. To put that in perspective the Bible is only 774,000 words and the entire Harry Potter series tops out at just over a million, so these two women wrote basically half of the book series for a fan fic. 

There are other good examples out there for  lot of fandoms. A lot of X-Files and Star Trek stuff gets a great deal of effort tossed in.


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## αshɘs (Jan 26, 2011)

Masamune, I don't know where you read it, but as far as I know OP has been WSJ's flagship for a very long time now setting new records after another. Current Naruto might be better for some people after the recent arcs, but I'm doubting that it will become WSJ's best selling title. Really doubting it. 

Btw I hope this War arc won't end up like the Winter War Saga in Bleach. That was freaking abysmal


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## Origami (Jan 26, 2011)

I've been staring at the posts and reading them for ten whole minutes trying to link the title to every post, but I haven't found any links... makes me feel tremendously ineptly stupid. 

So, speaking of Justice:
It's life that encircles our being, we are limited by the life destined to us, hence it's our queen. The thing is, this queen resembles the queen of hearts with her repetitive "Off with their heads," saying and here I'm giving a fair balance between what life does to us poor humans, it eats up every cell of justice and breaks every atom of fairness. Justice cannot sleep because it is already dead, unless you meant 'death' by sleep and when the 'awakening' happens, that is just the queen feeling generous. 
Point of speech: Life is unfair, there is no such thing as justice, it's a cycle of being injustice. 

Now this thing made me rethink -since I am full of contradictions- If I am saying that there is no Justice where did the term 'Injustice' come from? Everything on earth has to have an antonyms; Life and death, water and earth, etc... So perhaps there is justice but it might take the percentage of possible Pandas existing outside of China, which is a very small percentage.  


Anyway, about writing, my little brother -who is 10 years old- is really frustrated with what is happening in _Naruto_ and he believes that Kishimoto-sensei is wrong to have made Sasuke that strong and all, so he asked me if I can rewrite the story. Uh, too tiring...​


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## Tyrael (Jan 27, 2011)

I wouldn't get caught up too much with such things - since justice is a human construct, any viewpoint on it can only be arbitrary.



masamune1 said:


> Thats a buzz kill.
> 
> Any links?
> 
> Well, anyway, I'll just have to have faith that my fan fic, if I ever write it, will be bigger and better than the rest.



Just do your best, nothing more to it.


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## Pintsize (Jan 27, 2011)

You want to know why my Philosophy seminar is better than yours? I'm going to be doing my final paper on _The Sandman_, that's why.


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## Jena (Jan 29, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> The story is 474,000 words long and there's a lot of expended effort. To put that in perspective the Bible is only 774,000 words and the entire Harry Potter series tops out at just over a million, so these two women wrote basically half of the book series for a fan fic.



Holy-
I appreciate their, uhm, _enthusiasm_ for Harry Potter, but I'm wondering how the heck they found the time to write all that. It takes me like a month to write a dinky 1,500 word story because of school/life. 

I don't know whether to be amazed or frightened.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 29, 2011)

Jena said:


> Holy-
> I appreciate their, uhm, _enthusiasm_ for Harry Potter, but I'm wondering how the heck they found the time to write all that. It takes me like a month to write a dinky 1,500 word story because of school/life.
> 
> I don't know whether to be amazed or frightened.


I wrote a 71 K Harry Potter fan fic in two weeks, And the first 30 K was done in like four days. So its not as if it would be impossible. 

Plus there's a three year break between the publishing of Harry Potter 4 and 5, so it was written in there, a lot of fan fiction was. When a fandom's on hold like that you see a spike in fan fiction, it happened before Ocarina of Time too.


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## sel (Jan 31, 2011)

Pintsize said:


> You want to know why my Philosophy seminar is better than yours? I'm going to be doing my final paper on _The Sandman_, that's why.



Yours, by default, would be infinitely better than mine since the latter doesn't exist. That comparison would be equally valid even were it, however. Not bad going at all, haha.

(One gripe I have with the US is that you _stole_ Gaiman from us, tempted him over with your big shiny lovely country. Thank God you can't remake books like you can with TV-Shows )


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## Pintsize (Jan 31, 2011)

I'm confused as to how one would remake books. And don’t knock the tv too much, never know when HBO might do a series on The Sandman or American Gods.


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## Orxon (Jan 31, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I wrote a 71 K Harry Potter fan fic in two weeks, And the first 30 K was done in like four days. So its not as if it would be impossible.
> 
> Plus there's a three year break between the publishing of Harry Potter 4 and 5, so it was written in there, a lot of fan fiction was. When a fandom's on hold like that you see a spike in fan fiction, it happened before Ocarina of Time too.



Do you not get exhausted from writing? I used to write a lot of fanfiction when I was younger, after about 6k words in one sitting, I wouldn't want to touch the keyboard again for a week


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 31, 2011)

Orxon said:


> Do you not get exhausted from writing? I used to write a lot of fanfiction when I was younger, after about 6k words in one sitting, I wouldn't want to touch the keyboard again for a week


I get exhausted with what I'm writing, not writing itself. I mean its why I am working on three fan fictions and a novel at once. When I'm bored with one I just switch.


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## jux (Feb 1, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> *I get exhausted with what I'm writing, not writing itself. *I mean its why I am working on three fan fictions and a novel at once. When I'm bored with one I just switch.


Same here.

I've got such a monkey brain. I'll have a few ideas churning over in my head and I'll get as much of it as I can down on paper only to get tired of it and desert it for another idea. 

This is the main problem when it comes down to my major work for my finals. I've changed my idea around 4 times!


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Feb 1, 2011)

It tends to take a lot for me to get fed up with something and depending on how well I have it thought out I might never get tired because the making it up is what's tiring.


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## Tyrael (Feb 1, 2011)

I have real commitment problems with my stories.


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## sel (Feb 1, 2011)

I have commitment problems with my women. My longest commitment to date is my 2yr mobile phone contract, and I'm only managing to cope because I've got a younger one on the side at the moment.


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## Amnesia (Feb 8, 2011)

If it hasn't been posted already, posting: 

 by Haruki Murakami

New York Times article surprisingly enough.


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## Parallax (Feb 9, 2011)

Great great article, I can't wait for October


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## jux (Feb 10, 2011)

From talking to a lot of my teachers and literature enthusiast, I've noticed that there is a very...disdainful view on SF/Fantasy/Crime genres, a few of my teacher's considering it 'second class' writing. 

Keen to know what you guys reckon.



Amnesia said:


> If it hasn't been posted already, posting:
> 
> by Haruki Murakami
> 
> New York Times article surprisingly enough.



Very good read.


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## Jena (Feb 10, 2011)

Amnesia said:


> If it hasn't been posted already, posting:
> 
> by Haruki Murakami
> 
> New York Times article surprisingly enough.


It won't load for me.
Well, technically it will, but it wants me to create an account first.



jux said:


> From talking to a lot of my teachers and literature enthusiast, I've noticed that there is a very...disdainful view on SF/Fantasy/Crime genres, a few of my teacher's considering it 'second class' writing.
> 
> Keen to know what you guys reckon.


I think because a lot of those genres are "dime store novel" type stuff. I'm not sure how to articulate this, but, you know, you walk into a bookstore and go to the Sci Fi section for example and there are just hundreds of these novels crammed together. Authors crank out a bunch of genre novels to make a quick buck. 

I don't think that it's fair to lump an entire genre into one category, however. There are thousands of awful fantasy novels that middle aged housewives buy in bulk, but there are also several that are quite good and even a few that are unique. 

You can compare it to the recent upsurge of "Twilight"-esque novels in teen literature. Someone farts out a popular book and suddenly everyone and their grandma has to copy the formula/genre. The few books that are unique but fit that genre get lost in the sea. 

Or something to that effect. I'm tired. Ring back when I remember how to write like a smart person.


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## The Space Cowboy (Feb 10, 2011)

Speaking of Fantasy lit, England lost one of it's .


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## Garfield (Feb 10, 2011)

Jena said:


> It won't load for me.
> Well, technically it will, but it wants me to create an account first.


​


> What were the events demarcating the spirit of the 21st century from that of the 20th? From a global perspective, they were, first of all, the destruction of the Berlin Wall and the subsequent rapid end of the Cold War order, and second, the destruction of the World Trade Center buildings on Sept. 11, 2001. The first act of destruction was one filled with bright hopes, while the one that followed it was an overwhelming tragedy. The widespread conviction in the first case that ?the world will be better than ever? was totally shattered by the disaster of 9/11.
> 
> These two acts of destruction, which played out on either side of the millennial turning point with such vastly different momentum in each case, appear to have combined into a single pair that greatly transformed our mentality.
> 
> ...


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Feb 10, 2011)

I can see my breath indoors...its officially Armageddon.


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## Dream Brother (Feb 10, 2011)

jux said:


> From talking to a lot of my teachers and literature enthusiast, I've noticed that there is a very...disdainful view on SF/Fantasy/Crime genres, a few of my teacher's considering it 'second class' writing.
> 
> Keen to know what you guys reckon.



Ask them what they think about _Nineteen Eighty-Four_ and _Fahrenheit 451_. You could also mention Shakespeare's _The Tempest_. 

Even in more recent times, Ishiguro's _Never Let Me Go_ (technically Science Fiction) was shortlisted for the Booker Prize and is now a movie. 

It's a shame that a lot of people are missing out on other superb SF/Fantasy books due to their attitudes, but 'tis their loss. It's true that there is plenty of crap within genre fiction, but that also extends to fiction as a whole. You always have to dig around to find the good stuff.



> Speaking of Fantasy lit, England lost one of it's great childrens' authors.



This deserves a thread of its own...terrible news.


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## Jena (Feb 10, 2011)

@ adee:
Much thanks!

EDIT: THE GUY WHO WROTE REDWALL IS DEAD? 
Oh man, I loved those books when I was younger.


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## Hawk eyes (Feb 10, 2011)

Dream Brother said:


> Ask them what they think about _Nineteen Eighty-Four_ and _Fahrenheit 451_. You could also mention Shakespeare's _The Tempest_.
> 
> Even in more recent times, Ishiguro's _Never Let Me Go_ (technically Science Fiction) was shortlisted for the Booker Prize and is now a movie.
> 
> ...



Strange opinions for a subjectivist.

Just read the classics:

If you don't like them, you are WRONG - but when are you right? 

(I like H.P. Lovecraft and his "weird" stories...)


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## Tyrael (Feb 10, 2011)

Lovecraft is absolutely fantastic.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Feb 10, 2011)

Tyrael said:


> Lovecraft is absolutely fantastic*ally racist*.


Fixed it


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## Dream Brother (Feb 10, 2011)

Hawk eyes said:


> Strange opinions for a subjectivist.
> 
> Just read the classics:
> 
> ...



I'm not saying 'if you don't like these books, you're wrong'. 

I DO dislike it when people dismiss an entire genre, though. That doesn't make much sense to me. 

I named the 'classics' because I've noticed that a lot of 'literary elite' types will dismiss fantasy and SF as a whole, and yet works like Orwell's and Bradbury's are accepted and deemed completely suitable. Strikes me as a bit contradictory, which is why I would want someone to bring those names up to these critics whenever this sort of topic comes up, just to see their response. I name-dropped those particular works because those are the ones that seem to have been embraced into the mainstream, and not shuffled off into the usual attic of supposedly embarrassing genre fiction. I'm not even saying that those works are great pieces -- I mean, I liked 1984, but I've read other books that I've enjoyed far, far more than that. It was just 'okay' to me. And _The Tempest_ is nowhere close to one of my favourite Shakespeare plays...in fact, when I studied it I disliked it immensely. Not much of a fan of the play at all.

I would never want to say 'if you don't like this book/play you are WRONG'. It would actually piss me off to see that attitude.


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## Tyrael (Feb 11, 2011)

Just watched Black Swan, and am rather impressed.


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## Hawk eyes (Feb 11, 2011)

Tyrael said:


> Lovecraft is absolutely fantastic.



Isn't he just? 

I still haven't read The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath, and from what I know about it, it seems to be one of his best stories.



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Fixed it



But who wasn't racist back then? 

Mark Twain, maybe Fitzgerald, probably Hemingway (why am I only mentioning American authors...)




Dream Brother said:


> I'm not saying 'if you don't like these books, you're wrong'.
> 
> I DO dislike it when people dismiss an entire genre, though. That doesn't make much sense to me.
> 
> ...



I don't know... the fact that a work like The Tempest can be categorised into a genre is merely incidental - it is a great work first (just about), same with Joyce's Ulysses, same with Dostoyevsky's Crime and Punishment. Genre fiction has a bad rep because it serves a specific end, to satisfy a specific craving, which prevents it from having any real depth, in most cases.

It would be a little strange if you weren't irritated by someone telling you "you are wrong", when the point is only about a matter of taste... 

George Orwell is revered more as essayist than story writer in high literary circles, and The Tempest does not really come close to any of Shakespeare's truly great plays in terms of acclamation... so maybe the fact they can be so easily classified into genres lets them down...

What's the difference between Wuthering Heights and a typical romance novel (not chick-lit)?


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## Tyrael (Feb 11, 2011)

Hawk eyes said:


> I don't know... the fact that a work like The Tempest can be categorised into a genre is merely incidental - it is a great work first (just about), same with Joyce's Ulysses, same with Dostoyevsky's Crime and Punishment. Genre fiction has a bad rep because it serves a specific end, to satisfy a specific craving, which prevents it from having any real depth, in most cases.



So if it's good it's a work first and genre second, but if it's bad it's genre first and an individual work second?


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## Amnesia (Feb 11, 2011)

> But who wasn't racist back then?
> 
> Mark Twain, maybe Fitzgerald, probably Hemingway (why am I only mentioning American authors...)



Joseph Conrad receives a lot of criticism which swings on that side of the pendulum. To cover the lack of English novelists.



> I don't know... the fact that a work like The Tempest can be categorised into a genre is merely incidental - it is a great work first (just about), same with Joyce's Ulysses, same with Dostoyevsky's Crime and Punishment. Genre fiction has a bad rep because it serves a specific end, to satisfy a specific craving, which prevents it from having any real depth, in most cases.



If I don't make sense, it's because I'm dead exhausted after spending the better part of my day lashing 50 lbs. poles of about 10-12 feet in length to shipping containers. That shit is disgustingly tiring.


*Spoiler*: _Ramblerambleramble_ 




Personally, I've always wondered if the Western literary canon or the classics do a similar thing -- satisfy a specific craving for certain story elements, even a craving for experimental styles and elements and 'new' forms/formats which serve as a gateway site for that presumed depth. (Probably a 'genre' expectation on my part with regards to classics. I find I'm less dazzled by the story because face it, narrative is the oldest format by which people make sense of the world and there are some ingredients to that which will not change. Perhaps.) Some of these styles and techniques can come at the expense or even at odds with the story/narrative -- which sometimes works and sometimes does not, I think. Individual opinion there. 

Then again, with some novels I just wonder how the hell they ended up on their pedestal. Novels that leave me thinking about it like the Mona Lisa -- one of the most ubiquitous images in Western art, produced and reproduced through culture in its original form as well as through a plethora of imaginative derivations; but as a little individual piece by itself, it just doesn't impress me at all compared to other works by the same artist or compared to other paintings in that same genre. (Stepping into the realm of taste at the moment, I think.) To the art world, was it really all that groundbreaking -- now, at the time of its creation, at some arbitrary point in the consumption and review of art over time in a linear view of its changing nature? What were the 'failed' Mona Lisa portraits or 'failed' novels and why?  But I do wonder, how/when/by what process did these Mona Lisa/canon works become so great as they are? 




"What makes a 'great' work 'great' in the eyes of a culture, a community, and an individual?" I guess is the best question I might ask. And are people simply not looking beyond their noses unless they are told that they should expect their horizons to be stretched and reformed by the things writers execute in classic works? Or is sci-fi/fantasy, as story/character-driven tales sharing in the most basic of narrative elements/techniques, only capable of so much depth with that core palette? 

Though, setting and how it shapes a narrative is a bit under explored in sci-fi/fantasy, I think. As well as the potential/possibilities it can present. As Ray Bradbury says, "I don't try to describe the future. I try to prevent it."

Post-apocalyptic novels like _The Road_ by Cormac McCarthy, probe horror and humanity in some very interesting ways, too.

As a sidenote, I kinda want to see a steampunk-based story with a blend of Virginia Woolf's stream of consciousness and Ian McEwan's narrative trickery.  I do wonder what that would look like...


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## Tyrael (Feb 12, 2011)

Amnesia said:


> If I don't make sense, it's because I'm dead exhausted after spending the better part of my day lashing 50 lbs. poles of about 10-12 feet in length to shipping containers. That shit is disgustingly tiring.



You got the job then? Nicely done.



> Then again, with some novels I just wonder how the hell they ended up on their pedestal. Novels that leave me thinking about it like the Mona Lisa -- one of the most ubiquitous images in Western art, produced and reproduced through culture in its original form as well as through a plethora of imaginative derivations; but as a little individual piece by itself, it just doesn't impress me at all compared to other works by the same artist or compared to other paintings in that same genre. (Stepping into the realm of taste at the moment, I think.) To the art world, was it really all that groundbreaking -- now, at the time of its creation, at some arbitrary point in the consumption and review of art over time in a linear view of its changing nature? What were the 'failed' Mona Lisa portraits or 'failed' novels and why?  But I do wonder, how/when/by what process did these Mona Lisa/canon works become so great as they are?



Few classics are classics based on technical merit (that often being arbitrary anyway), if we are going to be truthful with ourselves. Rather, they all stand as social symbols, and often they speak to some sort of conformist nature within people. That article on HP that a thread was made about a while back? The article was right in its basic idea, but wrong suggesting this was a phenomenom new to Harry Potter. Ultimately, I can't get past the idea that nothing about the books make them classics save for the society that claims them to be, therefore talking about what makes an individual book a classic doesn't particularly work.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Feb 12, 2011)

I got that job Chris, I'm glad to, the first bit of money is going toward an e-reader so I won't have to read off the computer anymore.


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## Tyrael (Feb 12, 2011)

Haha, was talkin' to Ams, but what job you get yourself?


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Feb 12, 2011)

Tyrael said:


> Haha, was talkin' to Ams, but what job you get yourself?



I know, but I thought you and I talked about how I had to go and interview for this call center thing the other day.


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## Tyrael (Feb 12, 2011)

That's awesome man - well, obviously it's a shitty job, but having income once again is pretty cool.


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## sel (Feb 13, 2011)

> Then again, with some novels I just wonder how the hell they ended up on their pedestal. Novels that leave me thinking about it like the Mona Lisa -- one of the most ubiquitous images in Western art, produced and reproduced through culture in its original form as well as through a plethora of imaginative derivations; but as a little individual piece by itself, it just doesn't impress me at all compared to other works by the same artist or compared to other paintings in that same genre. (Stepping into the realm of taste at the moment, I think.) To the art world, was it really all that groundbreaking -- now, at the time of its creation, at some arbitrary point in the consumption and review of art over time in a linear view of its changing nature? What were the 'failed' Mona Lisa portraits or 'failed' novels and why? But I do wonder, how/when/by what process did these Mona Lisa/canon works become so great as they are?





> Few classics are classics based on technical merit (that often being arbitrary anyway), if we are going to be truthful with ourselves. Rather, they all stand as social symbols, and often they speak to some sort of conformist nature within people. That article on HP that a thread was made about a while back? The article was right in its basic idea, but wrong suggesting this was a phenomenom new to Harry Potter. Ultimately, I can't get past the idea that nothing about the books make them classics save for the society that claims them to be, therefore talking about what makes an individual book a classic doesn't particularly work.



I'm going to literally splash my thoughts out and just hope it comes out in a coherent manner. Here goes.

I guess the simplest litmus test would be the test of time. Then again that's not exactly foolproof, but does help to some extent since you can only really retrospectively define a classic. This seems to be how bookshops define them, since you less likely to find Bront? under B, than their _Classics_ section.

I mean, would you define, say, _The Canterbury Tales_ was a classic? Sure, it's survived all this time but who really reads it except Lit students as a set text. In the same way I'd consider a film like _Roman Holiday_ one, but not _Au Bout De Sifflet_ since only Film Students and really, really, really pretentious people watch that nowadays. For your information, I belong to the second set. 

That last example sort of raises the question as to how much we should credit works which pioneered or inspired an artistic movement, in that case French New Wave cinema regardless of their own merit. _Kind of Blue_ may be responsible for god-knows how many of the albums I love right now; but as far as I'm concerned it's not great -- and aside from me discovering my now-favourite pianist whilst listening to it -- I can't find myself being able to credit it at all that much.

Okay, maybe the best selling jazz-record of all time may have been a bad example to use -- but I imagine if you look past that aspect of it you can see what I'm talking about.


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## Tyrael (Feb 13, 2011)

And they were only able to be sustained in popularity because of the society around it. Hell, one of the reasons Shakespeare was so well known is that his shows appealed very much to the uneducated masses, with rather a lot of what was that day's equivalent of toilet humour and very simple core stories.

Unfortunately, when it comes to classics and influence, I keep coming back to popularity. You could argue using examples such as Dick - a sci-fi author who wrote books often considered to be modern classics. During his time, although he was very popular and respected by such titans of the genre as Asimov and Heinlein, he didn't make enough money to survive off of his books and often relied on handouts from wealthier friends. Only after his death did the books really take-off.

But rather than something innate to the books themselves, it was the social movements around the books that made them so well remembered and respected. He was the product of a society increasingly more paranoid about technology and aware of the spiritual and philosophical questions it raised. He was able to key into things that would become important, albeit a bit ahead of his time. Sure he was skilled and created books with real depth that engaged the audience, but that is almost incidental. At the end of the day, he was in the right place at the right time.

That's pretty much how I view classics. I mean, I could also talk about how the literary elite tend to view older novels as better because of what they represent, and the trickle down effect therein, but this is enough of an incoherent, tangential wall of text as it is.

***

Wow, it's taken me a long time to say what I just blogged. Been brewing for five years at least.


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## On and On (Feb 14, 2011)

If you could capture the concepts of Law/Order and Chaos into weaponry/a method of fighting, what would they be and why? It doesn't have to be specific like a sword or shield, it could be magick, alchemy (what I'm thinking), etc. etc.


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## jux (Feb 15, 2011)

Dream Brother said:


> Ask them what they think about _Nineteen Eighty-Four_ and _Fahrenheit 451_. You could also mention Shakespeare's _The Tempest_.



It's dismissed as 'classics', not to mention the fact that _1984_ was a didactic novel, so most of the genre elitest teachers I've come across align it more with Orwell's essays as Hawkman mentioned. 

More modern Scifi/Fantasy is looked down on, which crushes the Scifag within me. Recently I went to a bookshop and asked for the play 'Death of a Salesman' which wasn't in stock so I bought Cliver Barker's Weaveworld instead, in which the storekeepers remarked upon purchase: 'Wow you've totally just downgraded in literature'.



> It's a shame that a lot of people are missing out on other superb SF/Fantasy books due to their attitudes, but 'tis their loss. It's true that there is plenty of crap within genre fiction, but that also extends to fiction as a whole. You always have to dig around to find the good stuff.



Ah, it is quite a shame.

I think it has a lot to do with what individuals think the role of stories play in our lives. Historically, the stories that reflect context or explore moral concerns are the books that are remembered. It's a bit of a shame because the other side of the coin I feel is sometimes forgotten. That is: telling a great story. Imagination. The thrill of the inane. The evokation of something created within your own mind which is the whole prerogative of a story, which I feel is what SciFi/Fantasy captures. Though I do acknowledge that, more often than not, a lot of these books water down to boring formulaic unoriginal Toklienesque/Star Wars tales.



Dream Brother said:


> I would never want to say 'if you don't like this book/play you are WRONG'. It would actually piss me off to see that attitude.



I definitely agree though if you like Twilight you _are_ wrong, it's a narrow way to approach books, especially if you hold them in any sort of regard. I'm not a big fan of the romance genre, but I'll still open myself up to quality fiction, like Jane Eyre. 



Tyrael said:


> Just watched Black Swan, and am rather impressed.


It was pretty well done. I like it because of how many interpretations you can pull from it.



Hawk eyes said:


> Genre fiction has a bad rep because it serves a specific end, to satisfy a specific craving, which prevents it from having any real depth, in most cases.


Yeah, this is a good point. It's easy to fall into formula in genre fiction, which is probably why it has a bad rep because there are _just so many_.

Though it's just a bit sad that fantastic authors are dismissed for writing genre fiction by a lot. In terms of craftsmanship, style, character creation and holding a story together a fantasy authors like Mieville or Gaiman are no worse writers than authors Coetzee or Rushdie.



> What's the difference between Wuthering Heights and a typical romance novel (not chick-lit)?



nothing besides being old and written by a Bronte
Wuthering Heights is a reflection it's literary context --  gothic period. It has more depth than average chick lit, exploring patriarchy, social class, intense suffering, displacement, disposessian and the destructive side of unchecked love. It's actually quite clever in the way it's told and fits together, not to mention poignant because it's a Bronte. 

That being said, I highly dislike this book.


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## Dream Brother (Feb 15, 2011)

Speaking of Fantasy Lit:



Jux:

That store guy sounds annoying, but _Death of a Salesman_ is lovely. Really well-written and impacting.


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## masamune1 (Feb 15, 2011)

So....

-He hasn't read Erikson
-He likes Tolkein
-Apparently _has_ read TV Tropes
-Doesn't regard his writing as nihilistic, just....different

Would have thought, given the impression I've gathered from reviews and such, he wasn't that big a fan of Tolkein-esque literature. A little surprising. I can sort of see, without going so overboard, why people might believe he is a tad overly cynical and critical of old-school fantasy. 

I dislike the justification, said elsewhere by himself and others, that such stories are more "realistic" or "true" since the impression that I get from his work is that he errs too much on the bleak and cynical side, with bad people or ideas _always_ winning somehow; though, I say that without having read his books yet.


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## sel (Feb 16, 2011)

_Lignin, the stuff that prevents all trees from adopting the weeping habit, is a polymer made up of units that are closely related to vanillin. When made into paper and stored for years, it breaks down and smells good. Which is how divine providence has arranged for secondhand bookstores to smell like good quality vanilla absolute, subliminally stoking a hunger for knowledge in all of us._

I'm more than happy to continue thinking the smell is a product of nostalgia and nothing else, however.


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## Velocity (Feb 18, 2011)

I've decided I'm going to send a short story to one of those magazines that publish them... The money itself isn't important (although, at a nickel a word and a preferred 5'000 word limit, it's a nice incentive), but the idea of getting a short story published is actually kind of awesome.

So I brainstormed an idea and I'd like to know your opinions...

I intend to take a normal story of betrayal and pull a Memento on it. So one side of the story will progress forward in time and hopefully get you familiar with the world and attached to the four heroes, and the other will progress backwards while slowly revealing who it is that is ambushing them - eventually leading both to meet in the middle, revealing the biggest mystery of the plot. After that, I'll likely have one final section that has the Big Bad cryptically warning the four heroes of their fate.

How does it sound?


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## Tyrael (Feb 18, 2011)

Sounds awesome, but very complex for something only 5000 words. Not sure how you would be able to fully develop four central characters over such a short period.


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## Velocity (Feb 18, 2011)

Tyrael said:


> Sounds awesome, but very complex for something only 5000 words. Not sure how you would be able to fully develop four central characters over such a short period.



I may cut their numbers down... I mean, the four did go and kill something that was going to be hard for ten to beat. So one could have died to give them the opening they needed, leaving three - Rafe, Cailean and Leif. Leif would be the prodigy child, with the twist being that they're no prodigy at all. Cailean would be the prince, seeking to prove himself to his father. Rafe would be a prisoner, forced to go on the quest because it took thirty men to bring him down.

I think I can build their core characteristics and imply the rest, like just giving the name of someone rather than explaining that they're also that person's lover.


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## jux (Feb 20, 2011)

Anyone else think Time Traveller's Wife is pretentious soapy junk, or is it just me in this universe?


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Feb 20, 2011)

I'm thinking of trying to do something with a bit of a false flag operation as a plot line, possibly even twist the one I already wrote to put a little more emphasis on it. I just like those kinds of plot points and find them a bit interesting. 



jux said:


> Anyone else think Time Traveller's Wife is pretentious soapy junk, or is it just me in this universe?


Never seen it, heard only good things though.


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## jux (Feb 20, 2011)

I was referring to the book, though I'd advise you to stay away from the movie also.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Feb 20, 2011)

jux said:


> I was referring to the book, though I'd advise you to stay away from the movie also.


Eh I still think I might check it out,  I tend to have a tolerance for these kinds of things.


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## jux (Feb 20, 2011)

Well, I hope you get more out of it then I did. Tell me what you think of it when you do, i'm interest to know


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Feb 20, 2011)

Doubt it will be soon, I'm reading A Game of Thrones now.


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## Jena (Feb 21, 2011)

jux said:


> Anyone else think Time Traveller's Wife is pretentious soapy junk, or is it just me in this universe?



I haven't read it, but I've heard it's extremely boring and sappy.


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## Hawk eyes (Feb 25, 2011)

jux said:


> nothing besides being old and written by a Bronte
> Wuthering Heights is a reflection it's literary context --  gothic period. It has more depth than average chick lit, exploring patriarchy, social class, intense suffering, displacement, disposessian and the destructive side of unchecked love. It's actually quite clever in the way it's told and fits together, not to mention poignant because it's a Bronte.
> 
> That being said, I highly dislike this book.





jux said:


> Anyone else think Time Traveller's Wife is pretentious soapy junk, or is it just me in this universe?



Sounds as if you just don't like love stories 

I don't know, pretentious is a bit much... all books try to impress, are self-important... excessively showy, I don't know about that.


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## jux (Feb 27, 2011)

Hawk eyes said:


> Sounds as if you just don't like love stories


I don't mind reading romance. The two books i've openly disliked just seem to fall into the romance category   I'm actually am a big fan of Jane Eyre by her sister and Romeo and Juliet (the epitome of romance). I like any sort of story as long as it's interesting and well written.



> I don't know, pretentious is a bit much... all books try to impress, are self-important... excessively showy, I don't know about that.


Maybe it's because I expected a lot from Time Travellers Wife. It's basic premises was interesting, however I felt as if it didn't use it to it's fullest potential. It was just another plot device to create melodrama and make the romance less derivative.

I disagree, I don't think all books are excessively showy or are self-important. In fact, I think such bloviation is the very things you should avoid as a writer. I don't like books that seem to try _too_ hard. Most of the time it becomes forced, unnatural and unlikeable. The only authors who can pull a 'self important' attitude are Oscar Wilde and Anne Proulx or more didactic novelists like Orwell, but even these authours have a degree of subtlety about their stories.


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## Tyrael (Feb 27, 2011)




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## Jena (Feb 27, 2011)

jux said:


> I disagree, I don't think all books are excessively showy or are self-important. In fact, I think such bloviation is the very things you should avoid as a writer. I don't like books that seem to try _too_ hard. Most of the time it becomes forced, unnatural and unlikeable. The only authors who can pull a 'self important' attitude are Oscar Wilde and Anne Proulx or more didactic novelists like Orwell, but even these authours have a degree of subtlety about their stories.


The thing about Oscar Wilde [that I've noticed] is that he's still upfront. When he's being showy or self-important, he doesn't try to hide it. With something like Wuthering Heights or Lord of the Flies, the pretentiousness is somewhat buried. With stories like that, I just picture the author sitting in their room, congratulating themselves on their impeccable brilliance. Wilde knows he's awesome and doesn't feel the need to hide it.
[I don't know Proulx or Orwell as well, but I suspect it's in the same vein]

Er-if that makes sense? I have a habit of just writing what's in my mind without regard to the knowledge that not everyone is tuned in on the same insane frequency.


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## jux (Feb 28, 2011)

Jena said:


> The thing about Oscar Wilde [that I've noticed] is that he's still upfront. When he's being showy or self-important, he doesn't try to hide it. With something like Wuthering Heights or Lord of the Flies, the pretentiousness is somewhat buried. With stories like that, I just picture the author sitting in their room, congratulating themselves on their impeccable brilliance. Wilde knows he's awesome and doesn't feel the need to hide it.
> [I don't know Proulx or Orwell as well, but I suspect it's in the same vein]
> 
> Er-if that makes sense? I have a habit of just writing what's in my mind without regard to the knowledge that not everyone is tuned in on the same insane frequency.



Basically why I can swallow Wilde (and then some), he's not pretending to be anything more than he is. Yes he's smarmy and pompous, but he's in your face about it and he doesn't give a shit if you think otherwise.


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## Tyrael (Feb 28, 2011)

And he's damn good at it too. If anything, this is probably the key to getting away with it.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Feb 28, 2011)

I don't know how something like that stays on the site and manages to get reviews. It's blatantly breaking the site rules, just like lists, just like plagiarism and I see outright examples of all those things all of the time.


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## Lord Yu (Feb 28, 2011)

Best lemon fic of all time. No argument. Came three times just reading it.


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## Jena (Feb 28, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I don't know how something like that stays on the site and manages to get reviews. It's blatantly breaking the site rules, just like lists, just like plagiarism and I see outright examples of all those things all of the time.



Yeah, but it's funny.


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## Tyrael (Mar 1, 2011)

If anyone has yet to check out KJ Parker, the ambiguously gendered author has a couple of free short stories online. them , then go run to the shops/library and buy/borrow the novels.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 1, 2011)

Jena said:


> Yeah, but it's funny.


Yeah but funny doesn't give you rule immunity. One of the big issues with FF.net is that they make all of these rules and unevenly enforce them based on popularity and the like. Look at Thanfiction and his countless lists he posts despite the no list rule, anyone can report them and people have but because he's reached super star status for basically writing sadistic rape and torture porn, no one bats an eye.


----------



## Tyrael (Mar 1, 2011)

You shouldn't take it so seriously dude - rules are not inflexible, and that fic really doesn't hurt anyone.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 1, 2011)

Tyrael said:


> You shouldn't take it so seriously dude - rules are not inflexible, and that fic really doesn't hurt anyone.


Actually it does, it pushes any new fics down on the list and every time someone posts a fic like that it pushes the other fics down. The bad reputation Fan Fiction gets comes mostly from stuff like that and well, rape porn and badly written stuff in general.


----------



## Jena (Mar 1, 2011)

I'm pretty sure that fic is parodying other fanfics. That's the impression I got, anyway. A lot of people only read fics to get to the sex, and a lot of fics are just porn without plot. I think the author was poking fun at that.


----------



## Pintsize (Mar 2, 2011)

Firefly fans: I just saw a play starring Jubal freaking Early.


----------



## Tyrael (Mar 3, 2011)

God dammit, no book should be able to make me shed a tear after just one chapter.


----------



## sel (Mar 3, 2011)

Which book was this?


----------



## Tyrael (Mar 3, 2011)

_The Passage_ - a big fantasy book by an award winning literary writer released last year to rather huge critical acclaim, and (for a genre book) rather large commercial success. I've heard the right things about it, so been looking forward to it, and the way it really has come flying out of the blocks has me worried. It's a monstrously large book - if the first 30 pages have this much awesome, the next 750 pages might become a bit diluted with it.


----------



## sel (Mar 8, 2011)

Rereading Harry Potter in Spanish, and I'd forgotten how much I loved it when I was young. Especially the Quidditch.

Was I the only one waiting and hoping for owl post on the eve on my 11th birthday? Haha.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 8, 2011)

I can already see I am going to be re-reading the books sometime in the future, which is something I don't typically do.


----------



## Jena (Mar 8, 2011)

||f|| said:


> Rereading Harry Potter in Spanish, and I'd forgotten how much I loved it when I was young. Especially the Quidditch.
> 
> Was I the only one waiting and hoping for owl post on the eve on my 11th birthday? Haha.



Definitely not 
[Mine is still coming. It's on its way. It will be here any day now.]


----------



## jux (Mar 9, 2011)

I'm definitely rereading Harry Potter once I finish school. Such a fine writer Jo is. Oh lovely


----------



## sel (Mar 14, 2011)

Jena said:


> Definitely not
> [Mine is still coming. It's on its way. It will be here any day now.]



Haha. 
I love what they've done to King's Cross by the way. I've no idea why I've not got a picture done with that yet...


----------



## Dream Brother (Mar 14, 2011)

||f|| said:


> Haha.
> I love what they've done to King's Cross by the way. I've no idea why I've not got a picture done with that yet...



Haha, that's awesome. Next time I'm at the station I'm definitely checking that out...


----------



## Tyrael (Mar 15, 2011)

> However in 2009 a BBC TV production team filming a one-off TV special featuring Joe Swash recorded unexplained voices in the vaults during an overnight sleepover by Swash. One voice appeared to be that of a Catholic priest reciting the Last Rites. Swash was the only person in the vaults and did not hear the voices himself at the time of recording, despite the sounds being audible on his own microphone. The voices continued to be heard on the recording for some 20 minutes before abruptly ceasing after what appears to be the sound of children yelling. BBC sound engineers initially thought the sounds may be explained by voices drifting into the tunnels from nightclubs nearby but this was found to be incorrect and no other logical explantion could be found. The recordings were broadcast as part of the finished program Joe Swash Believes in Ghosts on BBC Three in January 2010.


----------



## sel (Mar 16, 2011)

Scotland: You can get away from all the buckfasted neds, and yet...

By the way, as someone who hates the kindle on principle, I think I've found one advantage of it. I don't have to worry about the looks I'm getting as a man reading _Julie & Julia: 527 recipes, 365 days and a cramped apartment kitchen_, with it's glowing reviews from _Glamour_ & _Marie Claire_ on the back -- and pictures of Amy Adams and Meryl Streep on the front.

It must be said though, that it's a really well written book. She's very funny and I'm getting a lot of food ideas out of the book (I mean, poaching eggs in _red wine_? I've finally found a dish as pretentious as I am.)


----------



## Tyrael (Mar 16, 2011)

In other HP related news:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceJ_DeT-c3M[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## jux (Mar 17, 2011)

Anyone else a big fan of Seamus Heaney and WB Yeats?


----------



## Dream Brother (Mar 17, 2011)

Yeats is cool, although it has been a long time since I've read his stuff. Heaney is not so much my kind of thing, but I can see why others like him.


----------



## Tyrael (Mar 17, 2011)

Yeah, of all the poets I read at school, Heaney seemed skilled but never particularly did much for me. Carol Ann Duffy was pretty cool, and I like anything with a strong rhythm - The Tyger, The Raven, The Smuggler's Song.


----------



## Jena (Mar 17, 2011)

Poe is the way to go.


----------



## Tyrael (Mar 17, 2011)




----------



## Jimin (Mar 17, 2011)

Regarding Heaney, how is his Beowulf translation? It's suppose to be the best one, I heard?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 18, 2011)

It wouldn't matter how you translate Beowulf, its not a fun read.


----------



## Dream Brother (Mar 18, 2011)

King Lloyd said:


> Regarding Heaney, how is his Beowulf translation? It's suppose to be the best one, I heard?



I'm not keen on _Beowulf_, but I remember Heaney's translation being good, yeah. Most people seem to regard it as the best version.


----------



## Jimin (Mar 18, 2011)

Anyone know anything about the Epic of Gilgamesh? 



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> It wouldn't matter how you translate Beowulf, its not a fun read.



I read two translations so far and I can't help but feel kind of similar. It's not terrible but nothing spellbinding.



Dream Brother said:


> I'm not keen on _Beowulf_, but I remember Heaney's translation being good, yeah. Most people seem to regard it as the best version.



I may decide to check it out in the future.


----------



## Jena (Mar 18, 2011)

King Lloyd said:


> Anyone know anything about the Epic of Gilgamesh?



Eh, moderately. It was one of the things we read as a required read, but I don't remember a whole lot about it. It almost reminded me of a Mary Sue/Gary Stu fic. And I remember picturing Gilgamesh as Fabio because he was described as muscular with long flowing hair.


----------



## Tyrael (Mar 18, 2011)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS4U7Y42s1s&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

I can't believe this is the theme one of the greatest slapstick shows ever.


----------



## Pintsize (Mar 20, 2011)

This.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 20, 2011)

Dream Brother said:


> I'm not keen on _Beowulf_, but I remember Heaney's translation being good, yeah. Most people seem to regard it as the best version.


I think that Beowulf and other old writings like it are the issue with most English Literature courses today. The thing that puts so many off of reading is probably the fact that these books are often such a bore to read and they're written for a time and culture which we have little relation or understanding of that it just makes people think all writing is this high, lofty unreachable thing. 

I will have to come on when I get home and post the blog I found where this guy thrashes literary fiction for its pretentious nature and the like, I think that the writing community's need to draw hard lines between what is good and will be read and is worthwhile and what is bad and will be ignored is the cause for the lack of reading we're seeing in a lot of places now.


----------



## Jena (Mar 21, 2011)

Pintsize said:


> This.


----------



## masamune1 (Mar 22, 2011)

Well, for a start, you spelt "dialogue" wrong. Which is kind of ironic.


----------



## Tyrael (Mar 22, 2011)

Are you going to tell me it's spelled dialog by any chance?


----------



## Pintsize (Mar 23, 2011)

.


----------



## jux (Mar 23, 2011)

^ Holy shit, that's pretty awesome


----------



## masamune1 (Mar 23, 2011)

Tyrael said:


> Are you going to tell me it's spelled dialog by any chance?



No, its spelt dialogue.

And you spelt it dialouge.


----------



## Tyrael (Mar 23, 2011)

Typo. You really think it's worth bringing up? It's not as if I spelled it correctly in the title of the thread or anything.

Seriously dude, if you are gonna be a smartarse, you're gonna need to do better than nitpicking venial mistakes.


----------



## masamune1 (Mar 24, 2011)

Tyrael said:


> Typo. You really think it's worth bringing up? It's not as if I spelled it correctly in the title of the thread or anything.
> 
> Seriously dude, if you are gonna be a smartarse, you're gonna need to do better than nitpicking venial mistakes.



Nitpicking venial mistakes is how I get my jollies.

As long as they aren't mine, of course. Not that I make any. Ever.

Besides, like everyone else said, it was hard to comment on the actual piece without context. Pointing out spelling mistakes was the best I could do.


----------



## Tyrael (Mar 24, 2011)

Fair enough I guess. Seems clear what mistakes I've made with piece.


----------



## Pintsize (Mar 29, 2011)

My copy of 10,000 stories came in the mail today. Never going to finish that book.


----------



## jux (Mar 31, 2011)

It's like that time I tried to finish War and Peace. 

failure.


----------



## Jimin (Mar 31, 2011)

jux said:


> It's like that time I tried to finish War and Peace.
> 
> failure.



What were you thinking, man?


----------



## Pintsize (Mar 31, 2011)

Got a job offer and I'm not even done with college. 

I'm going to wait at least a day before I look at the fine print. Way too excited right now.


----------



## Tyrael (Apr 5, 2011)

If you guys aren't following Hal Duncan's blog by now, you really should be.


----------



## Velocity (Apr 16, 2011)

jux said:


> It's like that time I tried to finish War and Peace.
> 
> failure.



I wouldn't have finished it had I not this weird nagging feeling about unfinished things, people to read it with and plenty of pizza. Really, the length isn't the problem (it's actually only 1400 pages long, or thereabouts, which actually isn't so bad) - the fact that it just _drags_ on, like an even more boring version of North and South. How anyone could write something so boring is beyond me.


----------



## Tyrael (Apr 19, 2011)

It's jsut about finished in it's UK run, but you should all go see Submarine when it's released state side. I honestly think I prefer it to Black Swan.


----------



## sel (Apr 21, 2011)

> It's like that time I tried to finish War and Peace.
> 
> failure.


War and peace is one of those books, like Ulysees or Atlas Shrugged, that intimidated the shit out of me and which -- as a result -- I don't plan to even try, haha.

And I've never heard of that Ty, I'll take a look into it though


----------



## Buskuv (Apr 29, 2011)

Well, hi, guys.


----------



## Garfield (May 4, 2011)

I miss reading fiction, it's been so long.


----------



## Tyrael (May 4, 2011)

10 pages in 6 months?

Even for the LD that is spectacularly slow.


----------



## masamune1 (May 4, 2011)

5 months.

It's CTK's thread; its what you'd expect. His Convo in the Theatre is older than the last LD Convo thread and its still up.

If it was me who got it up, we wouldn't have this problem.


----------



## Jena (May 4, 2011)

Maybe we need to start a flame war.

TWILIGHT IS THE BEST BOOK EVER!! SHAKESPEARE IS A FRAUD!! NEIL GAIMAN ISN'T FUNNY!!!


----------



## Tyrael (May 5, 2011)

SHAKESPEARE SMELLS OF POO. ALL HAIL QUEEN MEYERS.


----------



## Dream Brother (May 5, 2011)

Finished Kay's _Tigana_...mixed feelings. I also tried Asimov's _Foundation_, and I'm not really feeling it so far. 

More book recs, people! Any genre.


----------



## Lord Yu (May 5, 2011)

I started The Prince of Nothing.


----------



## Tyrael (May 6, 2011)




----------



## Butcher (May 6, 2011)

I need to read more Sci-Fi.

I've been reading mostly Mystery this year, trying to catch up with Harry Bosch, and Dresden.


----------



## αshɘs (May 6, 2011)

Dream Brother said:


> Finished Kay's _Tigana_...mixed feelings. I also tried Asimov's _Foundation_, and I'm not really feeling it so far.
> 
> More book recs, people! Any genre.



I remember you mentioned in a thread you want to check out K. Dick's _A Scanner Darkly_. Well, if you haven't, then go ahead.


----------



## Buskuv (May 6, 2011)

I keep reading Jazz biographies.

But they're interesting enough to be fiction, so I'm cool there.

I need more Sci-Fi, too, since I'll I find that interests me ends up being Fantasy, and I'm really hoping there are fantastic gems that I'm missing.


----------



## Dream Brother (May 6, 2011)

αshɘs said:


> I remember you mentioned in a thread you want to check out K. Dick's _A Scanner Darkly_. Well, if you haven't, then go ahead.



That's definitely on my list. Not in the mood for a PKD book at the moment, though. To me, the books always give off a sense of claustrophobia and unease when I read them -- there's a sort of heaviness that drags you down -- so I make sure to only approach them when I'm in the right mood for it.


----------



## αshɘs (May 6, 2011)

I understand. Scanner Darkly can be unsettling, especially the last third or so. Definitely not recommended if your not in the mood.

Also, what is it that you don't like about _Foundation_?


Been reading Collins Classics books lately; ...Gatsby, ...Dorian Gray and Frankenstein. Good reads. Once I finish Dracula I'll start ASOIAF.


@ Butcher and Doc

There's always PKD if you want sci-fi. If you haven't already checked his works out that is._ Ubik_, _Do Androids..._, _The Man in the High Castle_ for example.


----------



## Dream Brother (May 6, 2011)

_Foundation_ (so far) feels like it's a thought-experiment-turned-into-a-novel, a sort of exercise in ideas and concepts but with no real emotional anchor. I can't connect or relate to any of the characters. Granted, I'm not particularly far in the book, but that's my impression so far. I have nothing against exploring big concepts and such, but I think it needs to be balanced out with a human element. _Dune_ is a good example of SF that managed this well, I reckon.


----------



## αshɘs (May 6, 2011)

I see what you mean and I agree about the human aspect. It's been a while since I've read it, but I don't remember that I got connected to any of the characters. But regardless of that, it's still among my favorite series. I just simply enjoyed the language (it's formal, but it connected with me) and the way it was logically put together. The same way I enjoyed Asimov's different stories from his Robot Universe. I liked those parts where the different mysteries, crimes got deducted and the laws Asimov made were used.

Haven't read _Dune_ yet. I guess, I should.


----------



## Taleran (May 6, 2011)

If you want Science Fiction read Naked Lunch there is nothing better in the genre, just be prepared it is uncompromising, disgusting, incredibly sharp and incredibly disjointed.

It is almost beyond genre.


----------



## Buskuv (May 6, 2011)

Looks like I've found my next purchase.

I've been bad lately and been buying lots of books again, even though I really shouldn't.  I forget how easily I start chewing through books when I'm in the mood, and I like owning rather than borrowing.


----------



## Garfield (May 6, 2011)

Dream Brother said:


> Finished Kay's _Tigana_...mixed feelings. I also tried Asimov's _Foundation_, and I'm not really feeling it so far.
> 
> More book recs, people! Any genre.


Oh no you didn't 


So to cure me of my ailment of wanting ta read fiction I go to school library and pick up, guess what?

Murakami's _Underground_

Woe be me...


----------



## masamune1 (May 6, 2011)

Thats not fiction.


----------



## Garfield (May 7, 2011)

Really?
Omagawd, I shoulda heard that 100 pages ago. Woulda saved me reading.


----------



## Tyrael (May 7, 2011)

Taleran said:


> If you want Science Fiction read Naked Lunch there is nothing better in the genre, just be prepared it is uncompromising, disgusting, incredibly sharp and incredibly disjointed.
> 
> It is almost beyond genre.



I thought that was a post-modern book by a beat writer, with very little to do with sci-fi really? Sure, I hear it is really worth reading, but from what I know this is the first time I have heard of it connected to sci-fi.



Butcher said:


> I need to read more Sci-Fi.
> 
> I've been reading mostly Mystery this year, trying to catch up with Harry Bosch, and Dresden.





Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I keep reading Jazz biographies.
> 
> But they're interesting enough to be fiction, so I'm cool there.
> 
> I need more Sci-Fi, too, since I'll I find that interests me ends up being Fantasy, and I'm really hoping there are fantastic gems that I'm missing.



If you haven't check out my link higher up the page. Ted Chiang can't write anything without people tripping over themselves to give him awards. Also, check out Charles Stross for really good sci-fi.


----------



## Taleran (May 7, 2011)

Tyrael said:


> I thought that was a post-modern book by a beat writer, with very little to do with sci-fi really. Sure, I hear it is really worth reading, but from what I know this is the first time I have heard of it connected to sci-fi.



Are you sure we read the same book? 

Its very clearly a work that speaks to the incompatibility of the author with the world around them, and the need to create something fictional that still documented their experience.

I mean he even cuts up paragraphs and pages from other science fiction novels and has them inside the text. The only genre I would call the book is Science Fiction.


----------



## Tyrael (May 7, 2011)

Actually I was curious, because I've not read it and thats the first time I've heard of it being put in a genre. Admittedly my comment was confusing, because I missed out the question mark that shoulda been on the first sentence.


----------



## Lord Yu (May 12, 2011)

Finished the first Prince of Nothing book. Crazy epic.


----------



## Dream Brother (May 17, 2011)

. (I haven't read it yet, but will do soon.)


----------



## Jena (May 17, 2011)

For any fans of Meg Cabot, she's doing a Q&A on goodreads.com today. 
I can shoot the link if anyone wants to take a look at it.


----------



## Tyrael (May 17, 2011)

Name doesn't ring a bell, what has she written?



Dream Brother said:


> . (I haven't read it yet, but will do soon.)



I've got _Kraken _and _The City and the City_ to read first. The Scar and Perdido Street Station are both brilliant, however, and Un Lun Dun was infuriatingly clever, if something of a slow starter. Mieville's yet to really put a foot wrong with me.


----------



## Dango (May 23, 2011)

Who comes up with the title of these threads? I think they're charming.

I loved the last one as much as I loved the current one.
Catchy.


----------



## Dream Brother (May 23, 2011)

*Still looking for a decent new book*



Dango said:


> Who comes up with the title of these threads? I think they're charming.
> 
> I loved the last one as much as I loved the current one.
> Catchy.



I just used song lyrics for my old threads, so can't take credit for 'em. Dunno where CTK got the current title for this thread, though.


----------



## Dango (May 23, 2011)

Interesting, didn't know the grudges/judges one was from a song lyric.
Googled it, took note, will give it a listen when I've gotten some form of sleep.


----------



## Jena (May 23, 2011)

Tyrael said:


> Name doesn't ring a bell, what has she written?
> 
> 
> 
> I've got _Kraken _and _The City and the City_ to read first. The Scar and Perdido Street Station are both brilliant, however, and Un Lun Dun was infuriatingly clever, if something of a slow starter. Mieville's yet to really put a foot wrong with me.



A lot of teen drama books. She wrote the Princess Diaries series, if you've ever heard of that. And some other popular ones, like Avalon High, the Mediator series, and All-American Girl.

She's alright. She's not like stop-in-you-tracks amazing, but I think her stories are pretty entertaining. Good for if you need something to read at the airport or while waiting at the dentist.



On an unrelated note, City of Bones is unbelievably terrible. This is the last time I trust my friend's recommendations.


----------



## Lord Yu (May 23, 2011)

Tyrael said:


> I've got _Kraken _and _The City and the City_ to read first. The Scar and Perdido Street Station are both brilliant, however, and Un Lun Dun was infuriatingly clever, if something of a slow starter. Mieville's yet to really put a foot wrong with me.



Iron Council was pretty bad. It was the first book I read of his. It's that one book where he let's his politics strangle the plot.


----------



## illmatic (May 30, 2011)

[YOUTUBE]8kOFGI0p6SM[/YOUTUBE]

Anyone here read the books?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 30, 2011)

Dream Brother said:


> *Still looking for a decent new book*
> 
> 
> 
> I just used song lyrics for my old threads, so can't take credit for 'em. Dunno where CTK got the current title for this thread, though.


----------



## Dream Brother (Jun 8, 2011)

I recently came across someone saying that they prefer not to read first-person perspective novels -- they seemed to indicate that it was the 'easy' option, and that writing in other perspectives was more difficult and thus respectable. I was a bit taken aback by this, but I was wondering what you guys think about this issue?

Also, I finished _The City and the City_. Pretty good, but didn't blow me away.


----------



## masamune1 (Jun 8, 2011)

It really doesn't have much to do with anything. I was going to say its easier if you have troulble juggling the viewpoints of lots of different characters; but really, you still have to do that, you're just indirect about it. The plot isn't any easier and it might be harder if you are going for something really complex, since only one character is keeping track of everything going on. Thats why a lot of the most mind-twisty stories often stick with just one person, because its harder to figure out what is going on.

I suppose it might be easier to get _into_, sometimes, but it runs the risk of becoming a bit boring since, with multiple perspectives, if one character reaches a lull in his story you can always just switch to someone who is dealing with something more interesting. A first-person perspective needs to keep a single character's tale interesting throughout, which might actually be harder.  

But really, I don't think it makes a difference. Whether to read or write, perspectives aren't what determines quality.


----------



## Jena (Jun 8, 2011)

Dream Brother said:


> I recently came across someone saying that they prefer not to read first-person perspective novels -- they seemed to indicate that it was the 'easy' option, and that writing in other perspectives was more difficult and thus respectable. I was a bit taken aback by this, but I was wondering what you guys think about this issue?
> 
> Also, I finished _The City and the City_. Pretty good, but didn't blow me away.



I've always thought the exact opposite.

It's difficult enough to create a character, and attempting to write from the perspective of that character is even harder, IMO. You have to know their personality completely, what details they'd focus on [or even include,] how they would write, etc. 

It's "easy" in the sense that, yeah, any dolt can sit down and write a thinly-veiled self-insert story. But those are quickly weeded out. Effective first person narratives are hard to pull off.


----------



## Tyrael (Jun 10, 2011)

Jena said:


> I've always thought the exact opposite.
> 
> It's difficult enough to create a character, and attempting to write from the perspective of that character is even harder, IMO. You have to know their personality completely, what details they'd focus on [or even include,] how they would write, etc.
> 
> It's "easy" in the sense that, yeah, any dolt can sit down and write a thinly-veiled self-insert story. But those are quickly weeded out. Effective first person narratives are hard to pull off.



I'm not sure it matters nearly as much as you're saying it does: knowing their complete personality is kind of both a requisite before you write them as a protagonist regardless of the perspective, and not really possible since at some point they'll do unexpected stuff and grow in a way that'll surprise you. Perspective relates more to stylistic matters than matters of character and although it's easy to see why you've linked the two, I'm pretty sure they are actually fairly seperate.

The line between third person limited and first person is actually very fine, and in terms of content both needed to be limited to the subject character's thought processes and perspectives. Either way, at a character level, the same thing is required.

But surely in first person every sentence has to be in character for the protagonist? This, too, I'd argue is actually easier than trying to narrate from a more detatched position. People often talks about limiting factors as making something harder, but there is nothing more scary, to me atleast, than an empty page. Giving me some very concrete grounding in the world, a window through which I can tell story, makes things a bit easier. We spend our lives seeing things through one perspective, and I find things much easier to imagine when I have that point of reference. I do accept that this point is very much a subjective one though.


----------



## Buskuv (Jun 17, 2011)

Alright.

I just finished the first book of a trilogy called Devices and Desires (which both looks and sounds like a dirty, dirty novel) and I haven't been so torn by a book in a long, long time--if ever.

The world in which it is set, and the story itself is fantastic.  The setting is unique and a welcome change from the generic fantasy setting, yet not quite into a steampunk area, either.  Complex machinery, corporate domination, midieval politics and plenty of war all rolled up into a story that has a fucking metric ton of betrayal, double crossing and complex, Joker level planning.

But, my god.  The dialogue.  I have never been so outed of the world I'm reading in by such anachronistic, bizarre dialogue; the shift is so jarring that I'm often completely unimmersed after having to read such unnecessary and out-of-place colloquialisms in very important scenes.  Nothing makes you stop and really question the editor's choices when you read "I'm game" and "this sucks" in a completely serious and intentional tone.  

I think the author was also going for a more character driven story, but most of it falls on its face; the main character(s) range from mildly interesting to bland, but most of all the empathy we're suppoed to feel for the most prominent character is non-existant.  He's supposed to engineer a war so that he would be able to return to his family, and we don't even know their names (I forget if we even learned his daughter's name at all) until half-way through the book.  Often I forgot he had a family since it played practically no motivation for most of the book.  The 'forbidden love' subplot feels more like a teenage summer novel than an actual, complex relationship. 

Overall, I'd still recommend it, though--story and setting and awesome.


----------



## Tyrael (Jun 17, 2011)

Ah, K.J. Parker. I love his/her work, what I've read of it at least, but I can see why it would be divisive.


----------



## Buskuv (Jun 17, 2011)

I'm already sold on the next in the series, and I'm making more of a deal of it than is really necessary.

But shit, she needs to work on her dialogue.


----------



## Tyrael (Jun 17, 2011)

The dialgoue, I find, is something of a double edged sword. It conveys a great sense of character and a very natural kind familiarity that the protagonist's have. And it clashes incredibly with the setting. It's never bothered me, but I accept that it is a problem Parker has.

Everything I've read by Parker has been post-Engineer trilogy stand-alone novels, so I've no idea if it's worse in earlier books.


----------



## Buskuv (Jun 17, 2011)

All I've read is the Engineer trilogy, so hopefully she works up to a better tone.

Still been perusing book stores and skulking for new books.  Been tearing throw a bunch lately.


----------



## Tyrael (Jun 17, 2011)

Try and find The Glamour by Christopher Priest. It'll screw around with inside of your head.


----------



## Buskuv (Jun 17, 2011)

I just might.

Heading to the mall area tonight--hoping to pick up a few books to read during down times at work, as well as ones for the house.  Really been meaning to get Naked Lunch as well as, of all things, Metro 2033 because I enjoyed the hell out of the game.

So I'll add that to the list.

And wait for A Dance with Dragons like the tool I am.


----------



## Dream Brother (Jun 17, 2011)

I think I side with the idea that the ease at which you employ certain narrative perspectives really depends on the person in question. I think objectively stating first-person is easier or third-person is harder oversimplifies the matter. Some people probably find one perspective really natural and comfortable, and others much less so...personally I enjoy writing in both third-person limited and first-person. Not a big fan of third-person omniscient, though...



Tyrael said:


> Try and find The Glamour by Christopher Priest. It'll screw around with inside of your head.



Never been able to find this -- in fact, most of the time the only book I see from him is _The Prestige_. Even Amazon have stopped selling it. Maybe it's out of print? Foyles claims that it is 'currently unavailable from the publisher'...


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## Tyrael (Jun 17, 2011)

Yeah, it's not in print. Have to go second hand I'm afraid.


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## Mori` (Jun 17, 2011)

I got _The Dragon's Path_ by Daniel Abraham today since I'm a big fan and wanted something new to read. Anyway I sit down and flip it over to see which bits of review/author praise they've used for it and read the following:

_"Daniel Abraham knows what he's doing!"_
-Brandon Sanderson

That's possibly one of the weirdest publicity quotes I could have imagined them using. Is that really a selling point xD


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## Tyrael (Jun 17, 2011)




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## Buskuv (Jun 25, 2011)

Maybe I should do a book review series to breathe life into Literary Necropolis.

Evil for Evil (the second of the Engineer Trilogy; K.J. Parker) is the part in the trilogy where shit goes to hell, and everything is crumbling (and in this case, coming together for one of the characters.)  I feel that she's gotten better with the jarring colloquialisms and the dialogue comes off as more genuine, and the character focus has shifted to what I consider the only really compelling and convincing character Parker created in her story, which is good.

Without giving too much away, Parker likes really elaborate plots and lots of double crossing, backstabbing, chess-like strategums with the rise and fall of entire kingdoms; she also has a hard time keeping suspension of disbelief going when things become so uncannily elaborate that it would take an omnipresent being, a bird's eye view of the metaphorical chessboard, to be able to play out the way it does.  Don't get me wrong; the plot is easily the most compelling and fantastic thing about the series, from the set pieces, character interactions and politics, but even for someone like me who's enamored with the story I find it a little funny how complex things become.  

She has a very specific way of dealing with the story, showing just enough to make sense without giving away enough to spoil the twists, which is well done, though it's obvious the twists are never hinted at, just omitted from the reader (what's the opposite of dramatic irony?).  It's a very precise book with a florid world and setting, and you can get sucked in quite easily.

I will say this, though; I don't really like any of the characters, save maybe one.  I'm not sure why, but I'll probably be able to articulate it later.


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## masamune1 (Jun 25, 2011)

Pretty sure that news is a couple of months old.


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## Dream Brother (Jun 25, 2011)

It's raising my adrenaline, you're banging on a heart of tin,
Please don't make too much of it babyyyy


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## Jena (Jun 25, 2011)

In the interest of starting a discussion in here...

We had an assignment in my American Lit class recently that brought up an interesting point:
Do you think that college students should be required to take a literature course? Most schools have two core required English classes. At my college, this is Composition I and Composition II. Composition I is purely a writing course (so that would be writing things like cause/effect essays, narrative essays, etc.). Composition II is a course where students read novels, short stories, and poems and then write essays analyzing them. The college board has been considering changing Composition II to an optional course and making Composition I the only required English class.

What do you guys think? Is analyzing literature/prose important, or isn't it? Should it be required?


/well, there's an attempt, anyway.


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## Lucaniel (Jul 1, 2011)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Alright.
> 
> I just finished the first book of a trilogy called Devices and Desires (which both looks and sounds like a dirty, dirty novel) and I haven't been so torn by a book in a long, long time--if ever.
> 
> ...



i love this series, but for the two years since i first read it, basically no-one had heard of it, so seeing this made me have to calm myself down a little

anyway, i've never seen the dialogue as a much of a problem - it might be because i've removed it from my critical attention, but personally the dialogue always took second place to Parker's commentary on the characters' thoughts during those conversations for me. that's where the meat of the novel's character development lies, or so i've felt. 

none of the characters do become particularly engaging, but somehow i've still found them very well-realised. the fact of the matter is that they're ultimately pawns for vaatzes, and correspondingly, the plot takes precedence over the characters moving it forward for me. that probably sounds like a weak excuse. it's weird, but i can at once understand the characters and see them as living, breathing human beings and be quite emotionally detached from them

which i feel is a remarkable achievement, though it might just as well be a crippling failure for others. so yeah. i've always had a soft spot for the grand manipulator types, and vaatzes has many of their best qualities while lacking their self-absorption or hubris - his patient and perfect planning (without many the usual gambles) probably robs the novels of a fair bit of tension, but i've seen no-one else like him, so i continue to love them


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## Buskuv (Jul 2, 2011)

Been trying to try my hand at writing again;

Here's something I wrote last night.





Lucaniel said:


> i love this series, but for the two years since i first read it, basically no-one had heard of it, so seeing this made me have to calm myself down a little
> 
> anyway, i've never seen the dialogue as a much of a problem - it might be because i've removed it from my critical attention, but personally the dialogue always took second place to Parker's commentary on the characters' thoughts during those conversations for me. that's where the meat of the novel's character development lies, or so i've felt.
> 
> ...



Spoilers, I suppose.

My biggest gripe with Vaatze is, that, in all reality, his motivation for doing much of anything is entirely non-existent.  I'm still waiting to finish the third book (damn you, money), but unless some amazing right angle of change in it, his main reason for orchestrating all of this unbelievably complex plot device seems to be a kind of passing fancy.  He barely mentions her, either in direct reference, in his mind or even by Parker.  I'd have been hard pressed to tell you her name until the very end of the second book.

I can forgive the Dark Knight level of suspension-of-disbelief because it's very well presented and interesting, and I do want to know what happens, but the entire thing seemed like 'because' type of psychosis, not an attempt to see his family whom he barely seems to remember.

Aside from Valens, the characters don't come of as so much 'unrealized' as inherently unlikable, and not in the good way--they're just not good characters, so incredibly flat in some cases (Orsea) as to be almost unbearable.  Psellus is fun to read, especially near the end; his wife, I suppose, falls under a convincing 'Jesus, what a bitch' title, but otherwise the rest leave me incredibly cold.


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## Buskuv (Jul 17, 2011)

Say what you want about Sanderson, he knows how make interesting worlds and magic systems.  Already intrigued with the new book; hopefully he's upped his character/dialogue.


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## Tyrael (Jul 17, 2011)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Say what you want about Sanderson, he knows how make interesting worlds and magic systems.  Already intrigued with the new book; hopefully he's upped his character/dialogue.



And put a tighter leash on his plotting - Mistborn was complex and intricate to the point of convolusion and silliness.

Whilst his worlds do have some pretty inventive concepts in them, I found that Mistborn's suffered because of his plotting and writing style. It started feeling small.


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## Buskuv (Jul 17, 2011)

I think he's beginning to focus more on character development and plots that Kojima would not endorse.  Only so far into the book, but I get a good feeling about it, both story and character-wise; we'll see.


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## Lucaniel (Aug 11, 2011)

Anna Karenina said:
			
		

> As he was descending the steps Serpukhovskoy noticed Vronsky. A smile of joy lit up his face. He jerked his head backward and raises his glass, welcoming Vronsky, and showing by this gesture that *he must first go to the sergeant-major who was already stretching himself and puckering his lips for a kiss*.
> 
> 'Ah, there he is!' exclaimed the Commander, 'and Yashvin told me that you were in one of your dismal moods.'
> 
> *Serpukhovskoy kissed the smart-looking sergeant major on his moist fresh lips* and, wiping his mouth on his handkerchief, stepped up to Vronsky.



i...what? somebody explain. is that normal in that time?


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## masamune1 (Aug 11, 2011)

It is traditional Russian greeting (say it with an accent).

Yes, its how they greet each other in Russia (or used to); with kisses. Lots of cultures do it.


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## Lucaniel (Aug 11, 2011)

i know, but on the lips, that seemed weird - i've heard of it in eskimo (?) and some other cultures, but this is closing in on halfway into the book and it was the first ever instance, so that startled me


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## Jimin (Aug 11, 2011)

Does this sub-forum prefer the _Iliad_ or the _Odyssey_?


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## Damaris (Aug 11, 2011)

the iliad, for me


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## Dragonus Nesha (Aug 11, 2011)

From what I remember, I like the Odyssey better.


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## sel (Aug 14, 2011)

I've read neither to be honest. Not the original versions at least, though I remember the abridged stories from school. 

On a side note, I love how summer here (London) isn't too hot. I can spend the days of my summer holiday reading in the garden. Spain now is like an oven...


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## Distance (Aug 14, 2011)

I've got the Odyssey sitting down on my shelf and I still haven't read it yet, and neither have I bought the Iliad yet.


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## Buskuv (Aug 15, 2011)

Alright, color me impressed.

I went into reading _The Way of Kings_ knowing who the author was, the intention of the series (10 doorstopper-sized novels planned) and how that may or may not end well.  To be frank, he pulled it off.

The book both manages to contain several story arcs that come to their natural conclusion at the end of the book and leave cliffhangers for the larger setpieces being set in motion--as well as a few just beginning during the final pages.  It works.  I was hooked during the last pages, and am now excited for the next release, whenever the hell that ends up being.

Honestly the book start slowly, picking up pace and dropping it as it switches between perspectives (Shallan, namely, being the worst offender) but things pick up a nice momentum as we get closer to the end, which does have an intense climax, both action and plot wise, without actually feeling forced--and as well as giving some pretty interesting insights that have later ramifications in the series, all done well.  

The world building is superb; really haven't faulted him before on this.  The story itself, while still incredibly broad and reaching (4-5 'main' perspectives that coincide, and several smaller interludes and side stories that don't) still has an inkling of what is really Sanderson's strong suit: complex, intricate and carefully planned plotlines and lore, which I have an itch they will be.  I'm excited.


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## Jimin (Aug 16, 2011)

Three books into the _Odyssey_ and Odysseus himself hasn't made an appearance. #___# Did not see that coming... I guess it's not too odd since Achilles wasn't in books 2 to 8 of the _Iliad_.


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## Lord Yu (Aug 21, 2011)

This thread can sleep for centuries, to wake when it's least expected.


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## Banhammer (Aug 21, 2011)

He did y'all read American Gods? I have a question.


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## sel (Aug 22, 2011)

I did, yeah, about two summers ago. Absolutely loved it though I probably don't remember the details all too well. What's up?


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## Lucaniel (Aug 22, 2011)

Banhammer said:


> He did y'all read American Gods? I have a question.



what is it? 

i have this edition



sometimes i just look at it and feel happy


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## Tyrael (Aug 22, 2011)

American Gods is indeed an excellent book.


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## Buskuv (Aug 22, 2011)

Going with a fourth, here.

Questions, plz.


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## Damaris (Aug 22, 2011)

i just picked up that book this morning from my college bookstore. 

i'm about 2/3 of the way through. like most of the ideas, not quite sold on the prose itself, but it's tolerable enough that i can keep reading. love shadow.


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## Tyrael (Aug 23, 2011)

I think I agree with you on the prose front. Whilst I don't remember Gaiman's prose making a very real impact on me either - beyond a vague dreamlike aspect to it, it seemed to lack a real, set personality. Not bad by any means, but perhaps not as solid.

With 2/3rds left you still have the best yet to come.

In other news:


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 23, 2011)

How can you not like any part of American Gods


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## sel (Aug 23, 2011)

I can see where you're coming from, in the sense that it was the brilliant story that kept me reading instead of the writing. Not that it was bad, but I think I'd be a little bit anal criticising his prose for not being mindblowing.

Has any one here heard of Raymond Queneau? A couple of days ago I finished one of his books, _The Flight of Icarus_, a book in which a novelist one day looks through his manuscripts and finds his protagonist has gone missing and sets to find him in the city where he's wandering around. Aside from beign a brilliant story, I found it wonderfully interesting, we had another character who left his authors script since he could feel the author building up to him murdering his wife with a cleaver which he didn't want to do. It got me thinking a lot about how much we really know the characters we create, and the things we just casually, yet megalomanically, put them through as we dictate their life on a whim.

It also made me want to learn French. He's apparently renowned for his wordplay and puns, so of course we've got the whole issue of things being lost in translation.


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## Garfield (Aug 23, 2011)

If any of you guys want to participate in the poem of the week thing, but need more time, holler and a new deadline shall be set.


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## Tyrael (Aug 23, 2011)

sel said:


> I can see where you're coming from, in the sense that it was the brilliant story that kept me reading instead of the writing. Not that it was bad, but I think I'd be a little bit anal criticising his prose for not being mindblowing.



A bit anal, sure, but the book sets itself incredibly high standards. Imaginative, brilliant and very nuanced - by the standard of most other aspects of the book the prose is a bit lacking, and the only sensible way to criticise any novel is on the terms it sets for itself.

I'll add Flight of Icarus onto the eternal to-read pile. Sounds very awesome.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 23, 2011)

I liked the style, I really hate over complicated and showy prose, I feel like it ruins more than it helps.


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## Tyrael (Aug 23, 2011)

Not what I mean - it's not just a sliding scale from purple to plain. If prose gets in the way of the story, it's not good prose.


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## Damaris (Aug 23, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I liked the style, I really hate over complicated and showy prose, I feel like it ruins more than it helps.



there's a difference between complicated and showy and actual good, rich prose that flows and creates wonderful imagery. i happen to be a fan of that style, it's how i write, and while i also appreciate carefully handled starkness in writing, i don't feel like that's quite what's happening in this book. 

anyway, i'm hoping to finish it tonight after my school reading.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 23, 2011)

Gaiman's always been a storyteller more than a writer. The thing that makes me say that its better that way is that you're hard pressed to find a person who reads books simply for the prose. But a good story is always welcome. That's what carries contemporary writing. And while the start of American Gods is lacking, it still managed to grab me and the end blew me away.


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## Damaris (Aug 23, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> you're hard pressed to find a person who reads books simply for the prose.



                              .


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## Buskuv (Aug 24, 2011)

I try to write without delving into florid nonsense, but it's rarely the case.  I call it 'lush', instead, but that only hides the truth.

I don't agree that Gaiman's writing is perfunctory, but he does have a rather... minimal quality to his writing, which works well for his aether-like worlds and stories he writes.  I like it, though sometimes there's so little it can get confusing and he does tend to drag his feet on occasion.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 24, 2011)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I try to write without delving into florid nonsense, but it's rarely the case.  I call it 'lush', instead, but that only hides the truth.
> 
> I don't agree that Gaiman's writing is perfunctory, but he does have a rather... minimal quality to his writing, which works well for his aether-like worlds and stories he writes.  I like it, though sometimes there's so little it can get confusing and he does tend to drag his feet on occasion.



Well Gaiman embodies very modern, very well known settings as they tend to be ordinary and urban except for the things happening in them a lot of the time as is the case with American Gods and Anasai Boys and to some degree with Sandman. 


So that style really does mesh well with what he's doing.


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## Buskuv (Aug 24, 2011)

That's part of the reason I like him, but to be fair his style of writing can probably leave some cold.  Much like I found reading Robert Jordan to be like eating sand.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 24, 2011)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> That's part of the reason I like him, but to be fair his style of writing can probably leave some cold.  Much like I found reading Robert Jordan to be like eating sand.



Never read Robert Jordan. One of the things I dislike about A Clash of Kings is the writing style at times seems...off.


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## Damaris (Aug 24, 2011)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> That's part of the reason I like him, but to be fair his style of writing can probably leave some cold.  Much like I found reading Robert Jordan to be like eating sand.



you mean you don't like reading two pages of clothing description?


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## Buskuv (Aug 24, 2011)

There's a reason his books are so long.

Sometimes it works (I found Parker's tangents, in The Engineer Trilogy, into Falconry or Military tactics to be surprisingly effective... some of the time, anyways), but Jordan just loads it on like it's about to expire.


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## Damaris (Aug 24, 2011)

yeah, there's a reason he died before that series ended.

i'd gotten so used to it that when sanderson took over and stripped the books down, i realized for the first time how bad it'd been.


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## Tyrael (Aug 24, 2011)

Re: Gaiman - My problem wasn't that it was too cut down, although there is a terseness about it at times, but more that he seems to try to evoke and fuse a number of different stylistic feels and never really gets any of them. At times it tries to be rich, at others its very clinical and his attempt to try and marry the modern world and mythological was never really conveyed through the style. As I said, it's not a big complaint, but something that still stuck out to me.



Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> There's a reason his books are so long.
> 
> Sometimes it works (I found Parker's tangents, in The Engineer Trilogy, into Falconry or Military tactics to be surprisingly effective... some of the time, anyways), but Jordan just loads it on like it's about to expire.



It's been a while since I read anything by Jordan, so maybe nostalgia clouds my views, but I always really liked reading Jordan's prose. It was expansive and carried a weight, a self-confidence in it's own size, that really helps make the books feel so epic. It suited the nature of the world and the plot too, and it's one of the reasons I tend to define the fantasy genre around WoT. I didn't mind that he painted perhaps too full a picture, because it lends itself well to the rhythm and feel of the storytelling.



Damaris said:


> yeah, there's a reason he died before that series ended.
> 
> i'd gotten so used to it that when sanderson took over and stripped the books down, i realized for the first time how bad it'd been.



How similar is the prose in it to Sanderson's stuff in Mistborn? I found his style, frankly, grating in that. Repetitious and prone to massive bouts of ignoring the phrase "show don't tell". It also feels limited, and I never really got a sense of occassion or that he's writing about a big world.


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## Damaris (Aug 24, 2011)

i've never read mistborn

i got the feel that he was writing about a big world, but admittedly that may have been already set in my head by the previous books written by jordan himself. i'll also admit that i was so damn grateful to actually find out what was happening, finally, that i crunched through the books and didn't really pay too much attention to style beside noting it was lighter.


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## sel (Aug 24, 2011)

Regarding the earlier discussion, I've found that some of my favourite books are those where there isn't an actual story. To use an extreme example, absolutely nothing happens in _To The Lighthouse_, for example, but the way it was written just blew me away for the most part, and the characterisation was probably the best thing about it -- something I want most of a good book. 

Has anyone here read Gabriel Garc?a M?rquez before? I'm currently on _Chronicle of a Death Foretold_ having read _100 Years of Solitude_ (which I thought was written well but I really didn't like the story, and unnecessarily overcomplicated) and _Love in the Time of Cholera_ (Absolutely loved it) last year. Liking it a lot so far, it's about a guy who's killed, which we're told right at the start, but the story is told from the point of view of an old resident of the town who patches the story together from various accounts of the residents and the like. Though I'm fluent in speech, my Spanish, annoyingly, isn't good enough to handle actual Literature yet so I've got to work on that, but I definitely want to read his things in Spanish at some point. 

Never read that series written by the guy who died halfway through it, though my ex-flatmate loved that series.


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## Damaris (Aug 24, 2011)

i've read 100 years of solitude and love in the time of cholera, in the original spanish and in english and i loved both of them immensely. haven't read chronicle of a death foretold, but i'll look for it next time i'm at the bookstore.  and i have to agree with you. for me i'd take beautiful prose with a lesser plot over a great story with lesser prose.


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## sel (Aug 24, 2011)

_El coraz?n tiene m?s cuartos que un hotel de putas..._

What Spanish lit out there would you recommend? I've got this guy, _The Shadow of the Wind_ in both languages in my cupboard and this one book by Julio Cortazar that a friend mentioned on my to-read list, but I don't really know any others. Well I've read some of Borges' short stories but again, in English. 

So you speak English, Spanish and Italian then? That's pretty damn cool.


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## Buskuv (Aug 24, 2011)

sel said:


> Regarding the earlier discussion, I've found that some of my favourite books are those where there isn't an actual story. To use an extreme example, absolutely nothing happens in _To The Lighthouse_, for example, but the way it was written just blew me away for the most part, and the characterisation was probably the best thing about it -- something I want most of a good book.



That's what draws me to much of Murakami's work.

There is always a definite, bizarre story in each book, but so very little actually happens we get pages of the protagonist boiling pasta or listening to old records, and it's brilliant.


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## Damaris (Aug 24, 2011)

sel said:


> What Spanish lit out there would you recommend? I've got this guy, _The Shadow of the Wind_ in both languages in my cupboard and this one book by Julio Cortazar that a friend mentioned on my to-read list, but I don't really know any others. Well I've read some of Borges' short stories but again, in English.



in spanish, i mostly read south american poetry...i would say roque dalton, mario benedetti, gabriela mistral and octavio paz are great poets to read. octavio paz also has an amazing book on mexican culture.

for prose, i would heavily suggest reading borges in spanish, even if it is a challenge. he is a revelation. let me check my bookshelf when i can, and i'll come back with more.



> So you speak English, Spanish and Italian then? That's pretty damn cool.



spanish, english, french and latin i am fluent in, my italian is mediocre (i can understand pretty much everything said if they speak slowly, and answer back about half the time, but i can't read worth a damn). i'll be studying greek next semester.


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## sel (Aug 24, 2011)

> That's what draws me to much of Murakami's work.
> 
> There is always a definite, bizarre story in each book, but so very little actually happens we get pages of the protagonist boiling pasta or listening to old records, and it's brilliant.



Absolutely spot on there, completely slipped my mind. 

Have you got round to reading his newest yet?



> in spanish, i mostly read south american poetry...i would say roque dalton, mario benedetti, gabriela mistral and octavio paz are great poets to read. octavio paz also has an amazing book on mexican culture.
> 
> for prose, i would heavily suggest reading borges in spanish, even if it is a challenge. he is a revelation. let me check my bookshelf when i can, and i'll come back with more.



Ah thanks, I'll note those guys down. And I'll try -- though I must say that even in English he's challenging to read. Definitely a revelation though. His birthday's just passed, coincidentally.

And French as well? Wonderful. Then you've got no excuse not to pick up that Raymond Queneau book I mentioned yesterday.


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## Buskuv (Aug 24, 2011)

I haven't.  I wasn't even aware he had a new book out.  

This is great news.


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## Damaris (Aug 24, 2011)

my finances are excuse enough  i'll be sure to look for it next time i'm at the bookstore then.


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## Damaris (Aug 30, 2011)

i finally finished american gods--despite school's best efforts to the contrary--and i'm flipping through the notes in the back and gaiman says that he was trying to write in an "american" style; simple, uncluttered clean. 

that baffles me. when i think of great american writers--norman mailer, truman capote, faulkner--they all had lush, rich styles. and i can think of dozens of other writers who wrote completely differently from them, or in the middle of the two. to say that there's one thing as an "american" style just seems...weird. and then to assume that you can just _write_ in that style. i dunno, i dunno. i wouldn't claim a book i wrote that was set in spain was written in the "spanish" style, i'd sound like an ass.

i think it says a lot that just a third of the way through the book i felt that, in comparison to the caliber of the other elements, the prose style was lacking something, and now reading that he was assuming a style on purpose explains a lot to me.

anyway, that little tanget aside, i really liked it. going to read anansi boys next.


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## Lord Yu (Aug 30, 2011)

Gravity's Rainbow is an American book and it's the exact opposite of that.


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## Damaris (Aug 30, 2011)

gravity's rainbow > neil gaiman's entire body of work though

that's kinda unfair


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 31, 2011)

Damaris said:


> gravity's rainbow > neil gaiman's entire body of work though
> 
> that's kinda unfair



I really hate lush writing, don't care what anyone says. If you have something to say, like truly have something to say, you can say it shorter.


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## Damaris (Aug 31, 2011)

but what if you...can't? sometimes saying something beautifully can be what makes saying it worth it. you could say something to the point, but would it have as much impact on someone as an evocative passage? would it move them to the same extent?

for example i'm now reading "a heartbreaking work of staggering genius". it's the complete opposite of "american gods"--rambling, indulgent, words for the sake of words, and yet i can't put it down, while "american gods" was set aside for days. beauty without plot can transcend itself, but i find i can almost never say the same for plot without beauty.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 31, 2011)

Damaris said:


> but what if you...can't? sometimes saying something beautifully can be what makes saying it worth it. you could say something to the point, but would it have as much impact on someone as an evocative passage? would it move them to the same extent?
> 
> for example i'm now reading "a heartbreaking work of staggering genius". it's the complete opposite of "american gods"--rambling, indulgent, words for the sake of words, and yet i can't put it down, while "american gods" was set aside for days. beauty without plot can transcend itself, but i find i can almost never say the same for plot without beauty.



I've never had beauty without plot transcend itself and when I make it through those books I feel like I've wasted my time completely. Nothing puts me off more than to open a book and read a bunch of flowery BS and realize that two paragraphs could have been written in one sentence. You can still be artistic and convey and idea without being overly verbose.


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## Damaris (Aug 31, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I've never had beauty without plot transcend itself and when I make it through those books I feel like I've wasted my time completely. Nothing puts me off more than to open a book and read a bunch of flowery BS and realize that two paragraphs could have been written in one sentence. You can still be artistic and convey and idea without being overly verbose.



i could summarize every book in the world in a paragraph or less, but that wouldn't make them better.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 31, 2011)

Damaris said:


> i could summarize every book in the world in a paragraph or less, but that wouldn't make them better.



Yeah but that isn't the same as reading the books. Its hard to say you know the details of a book without reading.


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## sel (Aug 31, 2011)

Speaking of American Literature, has anyone here read _Stoner_ by John Williams? It's one of my favourite books. I picked it up one day because it was cheap, but I've not met anyone who's ever read it -- apart from my cousin who I lent it to who consequently lost it. Eugh.

Getting a sense of Deja Vu here in the conversation, haha.


----------



## Tyrael (Aug 31, 2011)

I put that on my eternally long to-read list a while ago, and can only assume I'll get to it at some point. Really need to read more.


----------



## sel (Aug 31, 2011)

I may end up doing that 30 Day book challenge of yours Ty, by the way.


----------



## Damaris (Aug 31, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Yeah but that isn't the same as reading the books. Its hard to say you know the details of a book without reading.



if you wouldn't consider a summary of a book an adequate substitute for the real thing, why would you consider a single sentence like "he walked into the room." an adequate substitute for a passage of someone entering a room that might reveal character, set atmosphere, etc?



sel said:


> Speaking of American Literature, has anyone here read _Stoner_ by John Williams? It's one of my favourite books. I picked it up one day because it was cheap, but I've not met anyone who's ever read it -- apart from my cousin who I lent it to who consequently lost it. Eugh.
> 
> Getting a sense of Deja Vu here in the conversation, haha.




yessssssssssss
i love _stoner_. read it years ago though.


----------



## Tyrael (Aug 31, 2011)

sel said:


> I may end up doing that 30 Day book challenge of yours Ty, by the way.



I stole it offa DB, gotta a week in then promptly forgot about it. Not my finest moment.


----------



## Damaris (Aug 31, 2011)

what is this thirty day challenge?


----------



## Dream Brother (Aug 31, 2011)




----------



## sel (Sep 1, 2011)

I think as your punishment for abandoning us, you must write an entry on each of those days DB.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 1, 2011)

Damaris said:


> if you wouldn't consider a summary of a book an adequate substitute for the real thing, why would you consider a single sentence like "he walked into the room." an adequate substitute for a passage of someone entering a room that might reveal character, set atmosphere, etc?



Because you can convey character and plot without lavish writing and you're likely to get far less people to read your writing if it is lavish.


----------



## Tyrael (Sep 1, 2011)

This rooted so much in personal taste, it's a bit of a non-argument. Personally, it depends on the tale being told.


----------



## Lucaniel (Sep 1, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> you're likely to get far less people to read your writing if it is lavish.



so you should avoid eloquence to be popular

10/10 advice


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 1, 2011)

I want three pages, single spaced, on each of them, DB.

Using excess in writing is just as valid and useful a tool as minimalism; to keep things so constant and unwavering is incredibly boring.  Variation is good and keeps the reader from getting bored; that's not an opinion, either.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 1, 2011)

Lucaniel said:


> so you should avoid eloquence to be popular
> 
> 10/10 advice



Eloquence doesn't have anything to do with verbosity. The idea that more is better and more worthy of being read somehow is just stupid and its why the "literary" genre is catching so much heat as of late for being pretentious and silly. 


For people who read and write for a plot and characters, you can do so much without all the drivel and when you're trying to sell a novel you have to take as much into account. 


I write because I like to write and I want people to read it, if I can avoid something that I, myself, hate to see in writing and help that? All the better. 


Wordiness and telling all this stuff I don't care to hear is why I put down _Servant of Bones _twice and _Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Rings. _Don't have time to read shit that bores me, I'm not in school anymore.


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 1, 2011)

Is that even allowed?

Please tell me it's not.

Oh Jesus, that mindless filth is in the LD, too?


----------



## Damaris (Sep 1, 2011)

i invoke messi to drive these people forth from this land  i mean jesus fuck, it seems to be about the film version too ffs


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 1, 2011)

Why have our mods forsaken us?


----------



## Damaris (Sep 1, 2011)

we should probably pick back up with the living sacrifices


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 1, 2011)

My pleasure.

I have a few willing participants in said thread.  

It was bad enough when we got that shit in the MD, but the LD was sacred.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 1, 2011)

The mafia games are in pretty much each section, I think Winny might have taken the one down in hers but there seems to be so many of them running around now. Never checked into what they were really.


----------



## Damaris (Sep 1, 2011)

but they have a game section, can't they quarantine their disease properly?


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 1, 2011)

We need a Mafia Thread in the LD like we need a homeless man with incontenence.


----------



## Dream Brother (Sep 1, 2011)

> I think as your punishment for abandoning us, you must write an entry on each of those days DB.





> I want three pages, single spaced, on each of them, DB.



Haha, at the moment I'm mulling over 'a book that makes you sad'. I want to think of one that I won't be tempted to use for another of the questions, hmm.


----------



## Big Mom (Sep 1, 2011)

Really? 

If you don't like Mafia Games, don't check out the thread. I have no idea why you are acting like you cannot avoid it.


----------



## Damaris (Sep 1, 2011)

Hiruzen Sarutobi said:


> Really?
> 
> If you don't like Mafia Games, don't check out the thread. I have no idea why you are acting like you cannot avoid it.


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 1, 2011)

There's seriously an entire fucking section devoted to those asinine games.  

Why would you need to have one here, where I've _never even seen you post_?


----------



## Big Mom (Sep 1, 2011)

Yes, but I asked the mod if I could do it in this section and he/she said yes. 



Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> There's seriously an entire fucking section devoted to those asinine games.
> 
> Why would you need to have one here, where I've _never even seen you post_?




See above.


----------



## Damaris (Sep 1, 2011)

you didn't really answer his question about why a mafia game is needed here tho when a) no one from the LD will join, just _the exact same people who play every mafia game_ (so this could have easily been held else where) and b) yr apparently doing the _film_ version of one flew over the cuckoo's nest.


----------



## Big Mom (Sep 1, 2011)

sel∞ told me I could and he asked that I try and encourage people in the LD section to join and get active. And no, I am *NOT* doing the film version. I used that just as a picture since I couldn't find an image for the book that would fit.


----------



## sel (Sep 1, 2011)

I think there must have been some sort of misunderstanding, HS (my fault, I must say, having started my reply with a 'got for it' -- was late...). However, I *did* say that before making an actual game thread, to come here and post about it to give the section a little heads up, gauge interest, try and actually see if anyone here wanted in (as opposed to it having nothing to do with anyone who posts here).

I also admit an oversight on my part of not knowing about there being an actual subforum for these games (oops). Bearing that in mind, and also the lack of interest in it from the regulars of the section -- I hope you wouldn't wind were the game moved to the subforum where Mafia threads are generally held.

Again, sorry about this mess all.

And now off to bed.


----------



## Big Mom (Sep 1, 2011)

I don't see why it is such a bother. It is just a simple thread.


----------



## sel (Sep 2, 2011)

Either way, hope you don't mind. It being in that other section won't really make the progress of the game any better or worse than it would be were it here. Well, actually you'll benefit from not having Dream Brother spamming your game thread with topless pictures of himself, Boskov with snide comments that lower ones self esteem, and Damaris going a bit completely homicidal.


----------



## Tyrael (Sep 2, 2011)

The level of vitriol here is kinda disappointing - fine, you guys don't like the idea of mafia game, but there's no need.

Not to mention there has already been    started in the LD. The difference is Hiruzen was courteous enough (mistakenly) to bring it to our attention.


----------



## Lucaniel (Sep 2, 2011)

Damaris said:


> you didn't really answer his question about why a mafia game is needed here tho when a) no one from the LD will join, just _the exact same people who play every mafia game_ (so this could have easily been held else where) and b) yr apparently doing the _film_ version of one flew over the cuckoo's nest.



what's actually wrong with the film version?

i don't really have interest in mafia games besides the obd ones that consist of lynching cubey on the first day, this point just confuses me


----------



## Damaris (Sep 2, 2011)

sel said:


> Either way, hope you don't mind. It being in that other section won't really make the progress of the game any better or worse than it would be were it here. Well, actually you'll benefit from not having Dream Brother spamming your game thread with topless pictures of himself, Boskov with snide comments that lower ones self esteem, and Damaris going a bit completely homicidal.



oh that hurts 



Tyrael said:


> The level of vitriol here is kinda disappointing - fine, you guys don't like the idea of mafia game, but there's no need.
> 
> Not to mention there has already been    started in the LD. The difference is Hiruzen was courteous enough (mistakenly) to bring it to our attention.



i just see no need for a mafia game here, especially when there is an entire sub section for them, and of the people who signed up, all of them were mafia regulars who just migrated over. if all the same people are playing as always, what's the point of having it here? no one here seemed interested. 


also i'm an awful person in general and enjoy crushing dreams.



Lucaniel said:


> what's actually wrong with the film version?
> 
> i don't really have interest in mafia games besides the obd ones that consist of lynching cubey on the first day, this point just confuses me



nothing's wrong with the film version, but it just seemed weird that he was apparently doing a game based on the film version in the _literature_ department.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 2, 2011)

You're hard pressed to get the LD to consistently participate in anything.


----------



## Big Mom (Sep 2, 2011)

I am very dissapointed. One reason I wanted it here was so it wasn't swamped with the fifty others going on. 

But then people had to complain and looky here. Very dissapointed.


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 2, 2011)

Tyrael said:


> The level of vitriol here is kinda disappointing - fine, you guys don't like the idea of mafia game, but there's no need.
> 
> Not to mention there has already been    started in the LD. The difference is Hiruzen was courteous enough (mistakenly) to bring it to our attention.



It just comes off as a spam thread, and one that has absolutely no relation to the Literature Department, either in topic or community.  I guarantee few of the posters, if any, will ever post in any other thread in the literature department.  

I don't see the point.  

It's just more clutter.


----------



## Lucaniel (Sep 2, 2011)

Hiruzen Sarutobi said:


> I am very dissapointed. One reason I wanted it here was so it wasn't swamped with the fifty others going on.
> 
> But then people had to complain and looky here. Very dissapointed.



if there are fifty others going on why would you make another one?


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 2, 2011)

Generally because the person creating it wants to be the Game Master.

-----

So, I actually haven't gotten around to picking up a Dance with Dragons yet; I inevitably intend on doing so, but how are the reactions so far?  It's been surprisingly quiet, though I've  been avoiding overt discussions on the matter.


----------



## Lucaniel (Sep 2, 2011)

adwd is pretty consistent quality-wise with the other books

this might just be me, though, but i got a sense throughout reading it that as a reader, i was mired. i know it's half about how the best laid plans o' mice and men gang aft agley and hence pretty much nothing goes right for anyone except varys and petyr

but even so, it didn't seem to go anywhere. i got no sense of movement or plot progression. i want off this ride


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 2, 2011)

So it's another Feast for Crows?  

Well, I do enjoy the series for the impact it can have on how you've grown attached and emotional with the characters (since they die like turkeys in a rainstorm) as well as the overly elaborate and long plot lines, so I'll probably enjoy this one.  I think we had a mini Duke Nukem effect with the book in that we waited so goddamn long for it nothing was going to satiate the masses.

Good to know it's up to snuff, though.

I also need to grab this new Murakami book I'm hearing about.


----------



## Dream Brother (Sep 2, 2011)

Not a fan of ADWD. It felt like a lot of meandering with very little momentum or power. Even the usually interesting characters had surprisingly boring scenes. The one surprise I had was that the Theon chapters felt like the best part of the book, and classic Martin. The rest was mixed. I wouldn't call it a bad book, but I was expecting more.


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 2, 2011)

I think Marin said he rewrote the entire book after having nearly completed it, so I think he tried to put too much in initially; maybe he left too much out on the second run.  

He has a planned 2 more books, as well.

Hopefully the 'release my books in half-decade intervals' phase of his is over and he'll finish the series before his borrowed time runs out.


----------



## Lord Yu (Sep 2, 2011)

Doc, Luc have you read my work yet? 



I feel the same way about ADWD. Also Daenerys has become retarded.


----------



## Damaris (Sep 2, 2011)

i went to a used bookstore today; picked up herodotus' histories and the iliad in the original greek, but the real point of this is that i finally got around to buying the first book in ASOIAF since it was on sale for five bucks. with the way it's been so hyped to me, i'm expecting a disappointment (nothing can live up to perfect praise) but i hope i enjoy it.


----------



## Lucaniel (Sep 2, 2011)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> So it's another Feast for Crows?
> 
> Well, I do enjoy the series for the impact it can have on how you've grown attached and emotional with the characters (since they die like turkeys in a rainstorm) as well as the overly elaborate and long plot lines, so I'll probably enjoy this one.  I think we had a mini Duke Nukem effect with the book in that we waited so goddamn long for it nothing was going to satiate the masses.
> 
> ...


i actually liked AFFC a lot more tbh. i think it's because jaime got a ton of fleshing out and development and i really began liking his character



Lord Yu said:


> Doc, Luc have you read my work yet?
> 
> 
> 
> I feel the same way about ADWD. Also Daenerys has become retarded.



just saw you put it up in the blender, will do (though tomorrow, i'm going to need to sleep)

and yeah, daenerys's arc especially annoyed me


Damaris said:


> i went to a used bookstore today; picked up herodotus' histories and the iliad in the original greek, but the real point of this is that i finally got around to buying the first book in ASOIAF since it was on sale for five bucks. with the way it's been so hyped to me, i'm expecting a disappointment (nothing can live up to perfect praise) but i hope i enjoy it.



i think you will

man, the first time reading a game of thrones. good times


----------



## Tyrael (Sep 2, 2011)

Damaris said:


> i just see no need for a mafia game here, especially when there is an entire sub section for them, and of the people who signed up, all of them were mafia regulars who just migrated over. if all the same people are playing as always, what's the point of having it here? no one here seemed interested.





Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> It just comes off as a spam thread, and one that has absolutely no relation to the Literature Department, either in topic or community.  I guarantee few of the posters, if any, will ever post in any other thread in the literature department.
> 
> I don't see the point.
> 
> It's just more clutter.



I'm not disagreeing with any of your points - really, I agree that it's a thread with no place or relevance in the LD and will attract lots of people with no interest in books or contributing to the wider section. No need to curse anyone out though.

A Game of Thrones, on balance, was probably a disappointment. The praise and hype put it as amazing, but it was really not much better than decent. People tell me that later books raise the level, but my experience with the first was a mixed affair.


----------



## Lord Yu (Sep 2, 2011)

Why is everyone so knocked out today?


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 2, 2011)

Tyrael said:


> I'm not disagreeing with any of your points - really, I agree that it's a thread with no place or relevance in the LD and will attract lots of people with no interest in books or contributing to the wider section. *No need to curse anyone out though.
> *
> A Game of Thrones, on balance, was probably a disappointment. The praise and hype put it as amazing, but it was really not much better than decent. People tell me that later books raise the level, but my experience with the first was a mixed affair.



I'm still miffed about the MD becoming a Mafia Game brothel.

And, I've never bought into hype (or, at least very little) and all my experiences have been better for it; I picked up ASoIaF on recommendation from a friend, and only found out about all the fans and forums and shit after I'd come online looking for more books.

I imagine it will be a pleasant read, since I will enjoy the continuation of the series and character plots, but I'd never imagined it would be some revelation of literature.


----------



## Dream Brother (Sep 2, 2011)

We must go back to our hippie roots.


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 2, 2011)

You will summon Jove with an Avatar gif.

And, I'm so pumped for Korra.

My girlfriend will hate me when I start rewatching the entire series the month prior.


----------



## Dream Brother (Sep 2, 2011)

Haha, I'm rewatching it at the moment -- such an awesome series. It really surprised me, to be honest. (I wasn't keen on the first two episodes, but after that my interest just kept building.) The wait for Korra is going to be really tough...


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 2, 2011)

I try to forget about it, since I'll get antsy if I think about it.

The show really hooked me around the middle of Book 1, but damn did Book 2 just floor me.  It was intense for the target demographic, and all detail and production that went into the show is downright amazing.


----------



## Lord Yu (Sep 2, 2011)

I never watched it. I haven't watched Nickelodeon in years and years.


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 2, 2011)

Sole redeeming feature, really.

Practically the exception that proves the rule.


----------



## Dream Brother (Sep 2, 2011)

My interest was pretty much captured after watching _Jet_, and _The Storm_ confirmed it. (So around the middle of S1, aye.) 

Book 2 is my favourite out of the three for sure. It was so consistent and tight, with barely anything that felt like padding or bloat. _Zuko Alone_ was particularly good, but the whole season shined. The other seasons still have great moments, but Book 2 is the real peak. 

I also love how my favourite relationship in the series is between an uncle and his nephew. It just works so well.


----------



## Tyrael (Sep 3, 2011)

Book 2 is, indeed, the highlight of the series. Really, when a lot of series, be them tv or books, settle down and find their rhythm they tend to lose something. For Avatar, it's not until it finds its feet that it really becomes awesome.


----------



## Parallax (Sep 3, 2011)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Generally because the person creating it wants to be the Game Master.
> 
> -----
> 
> So, I actually haven't gotten around to picking up a Dance with Dragons yet; I inevitably intend on doing so, but how are the reactions so far?  It's been surprisingly quiet, though I've  been avoiding overt discussions on the matter.



Super late response but I really like it, definitely better than AFFC

Dany's storyline really fucking sucks (untin Selamy's POV)

but the North stuff is awesome

I think I'm more partial to it because all my favorites are in it

and I can see why some people don't enjoy the book as much because the long wait and that quite frankly AFFC and ADWD are (required) transitional books for ASOS and Winds of Winter.


----------



## Lord Yu (Sep 3, 2011)

I'm about halfway through The Mysterious Flame of Queen Loana. I feel so erudite.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 4, 2011)

Sat down and read _Monarch of the Glen _last night and I was pleasantly surprised. It was a sequel that actually made sense with what I had read before and addressed some of the things that have changed in the real world since the first book. I want to read American Gods over again even more.


----------



## Tyrael (Sep 4, 2011)

Monarch of the Glen was a really bad Scottish sopa opera on a while back. I presume you don't mean that.


----------



## Lucaniel (Sep 4, 2011)

i assume he means the gaiman novella which iirc continues shadow's story


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 4, 2011)

Tyrael said:


> Monarch of the Glen was a really bad Scottish sopa opera on a while back. I presume you don't mean that.



The name "Monarch of the Glen" refers to a painting of a stag, but its also the name of the novella sequel to _American Gods_. 


Now I'm laughing though, the Scots have Soap Operas?


----------



## Tyrael (Sep 4, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Now I'm laughing though, the Scots have Soap Operas?



You're surprised we have entertainment media? Seriously?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 4, 2011)

Tyrael said:


> You're surprised we have entertainment media? Seriously?



I thought you guys just like threw logs and fought with axes while wearing kilts for fun.


----------



## sel (Sep 4, 2011)

*Spoiler*: _Mafia thoughts etc..._ 





Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I'm still miffed about the MD becoming a Mafia Game brothel.



Likewise, to be honest, as an extension of the forum, I sort of feel a little violated.

The only thing I actually like about this Mafia craze is that it's something we did ages ago in the MD on a small scale before it took over the whole section -- and aids that whole hipster thing we've got going on.

*Spoiler*: _part of a post i made ages ago in a discussion about mafia stuffs in hr, though it was more directed at the idea of mafia prizes but part of it still applies to this._ 





> I remember we had a Mafia period in the MD a while back. In the conversation thread, someone suggested a Mafia game -- to which most of us responded something along the lines of, "What's that?" Eventually a game got started, comprised of mostly regulars with an occasional randomer who we got to know as a result. Now that was fantastic -- especially when Moe suicide-bombed Trias. I mean, we didn't care about prizes -- it wasn't like we particularly earned it when you consider some of the fantastic stuff that goes on in the art department and the like. Hell, it's not even much compared to trying to get the 3000'th post in a section that had 903 threads created every ten seconds before a rule was created to stop that.
> 
> The thing about prizes and the like being awarded is that it's caused people to go and make them in all nooks and crannies of the forum. By far the most active thread in the LD is the Mafia thread -- considering it's the forum equivalent of a tiny quaint village where the pace of life is slow as hell. Kind of like that town in Hot Fuzz but without the killings, and the fact that there's only one female there.
> 
> ...










Why wouldn't the Scots have TV programmes? It's not as backward as perhaps Frankie Boyle would have you believe.

Funnily enough, I heard a rumour that they also have running water there as well. Don't quote me on that though.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 4, 2011)

sel said:


> *Spoiler*: _Mafia thoughts etc..._
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I know they have tv programs, I'm sure even Yemen has tv programs, what I mean is I wouldn't picture Soap Operas working everywhere, I'm actually shocked they work here, the plots range from boring to completely fucking crazy. 


I saw one when I was off from school once where someone was trapped on an island with a FORCE FIELD.


----------



## sel (Sep 4, 2011)

I'm not even sure Soap Operas work _anywhere_, if I'm being penickety.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 4, 2011)

Somehow they seem very exciting in Mexico, there was one with pirates and all kinds of wild stuff. I can't understand a world of it but not sure it matters


----------



## Tyrael (Sep 4, 2011)

If they've got pirates and force fields, I'm not sure if they qualify as soap operas anymore. I'd love to see that shit in Eastenders.


----------



## sel (Sep 4, 2011)

I only sporadically watch Eastenders, that is, when it's on the telly and I've got no power over the rest of my household to change it. Last time I watched it, someone stole someone elses baby. I don't think pirates even come close to that shit. 

Also, without giving any details, was yesterdays Who any good? I've not watched it yet


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 4, 2011)

I liked it, even though its more Moffat Era Nightmare fuel. 

And I don't know dude, people get murdered in Soap Operas and no one goes to fucking jail more than a week. Its like they share a court system with Gotham City.


----------



## Tyrael (Sep 4, 2011)

Reviews are mixed, but I enjoyed it.



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> And I don't know dude, people get murdered in Soap Operas and no one goes to fucking jail more than a week. Its like they share a court system with Gotham City.



Pfft, most Batman villains are far less insane than your average Soap Opera character.


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 4, 2011)

There was that supernatural Soap Opera on US television.

I really don't know much about it since my knowledge of soap operas comes from being sick during school days and not having access to my gaming consoles.  All I remember is some wizened old crone getting strangled from some hands that came from a fucking sink, and I was like 'oh god.'


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 4, 2011)

The bad part about Soaps is they're addictive, my brother's fire station was watching them all the time.


----------



## masamune1 (Sep 4, 2011)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I thought you guys just like threw logs and fought with axes while wearing kilts for fun.



It wasn't really a soap opera; more of a drama ser ies. Though we _do_ have soap operas.

A Scottish man invented television. Then when his invention was taken over by a heartless American corporation, he went off and invented _colour_ television. We Scots built Western civilization; TV's, tekephones, _Grand Theft Auto- _ what stone age pig sty would the world be without us?


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 10, 2011)

So I read Good Omens, Loved it and now want something else like it

I'm deputizing all your asses


Go.


----------



## Lucaniel (Sep 12, 2011)

Banhammer said:


> So I read Good Omens, Loved it and now want something else like it
> 
> I'm deputizing all your asses
> 
> ...



a combination of pratchett and gaiman results in something pretty uniquely spectacular which i'd be surprised if i could find anywhere else

but my favourite discworld book is Night Watch, ban, try that


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 12, 2011)

Actually didn't like Good Omens, gave up on it over half way through.


----------



## Lucaniel (Sep 20, 2011)

anyone know any good books by critics taking a sort of holistic view of russian literature?

if such broad studies exist


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 21, 2011)

I've only ever read like one Russian thing, I rather liked it though.


----------



## Buskuv (Oct 3, 2011)

Poem of the Week finally in its first official run.

Deadline is sometime before New Years.


----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 5, 2011)

I'm looking for books to read up on a lot of things (but I have a feeling asking about linguistics books is a no no, huh?), but I'm mostly wanting to know what you guys think of The Hunger Games or The Magicians by Lev Grossman. I'm on a point exchange site and I can get one of the two as a prize, but I'm not sure which one to pick. I have a few friends who say the Hunger Games is great, but a few friends who suggest me to pick Lev Grossman. Or should I pick the "surprise  me" option?

Any help guys? 

*I hope I was allowed to ask this here. I didn't think it was really suited for the recommendation thread....*



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> *And I don't know dude, people get murdered in Soap Operas and no one goes to fucking jail more than a week. Its like they share a court system with Gotham City.*



 Its true.

Oh man, I can't believe I know that. 



> The bad part about Soaps is they're addictive, my brother's fire station was watching them all the time.



:sweat


----------



## Tyrael (Oct 5, 2011)

Terra Branford said:


> I'm looking for books to read up on a lot of things (but I have a feeling asking about linguistics books is a no no, huh?), but I'm mostly wanting to know what you guys think of The Hunger Games or The Magicians by Lev Grossman. I'm on a point exchange site and I can get one of the two as a prize, but I'm not sure which one to pick. I have a few friends who say the Hunger Games is great, but a few friends who suggest me to pick Lev Grossman. Or should I pick the "surprise  me" option?
> 
> Any help guys?
> 
> *I hope I was allowed to ask this here. I didn't think it was really suited for the recommendation thread....*



This is a conv. thread, so there's no real rules on what you can or can't post. Unless you're here to insult DB's hair, in which case welcome to the team.

I've heard The Hunger Games is strong and enjoyable, but the one of the two which most interests has to be The Magician. Grossman was a literary a critic and he's an example who comes from a literary background who doesn't hold the disregard for genre stuff that more than a few of his contempories do. As a riff on popular fantasy lit. - Narnia and Harry Potter being the most prominent - it's the one I'd choose.

That said, I've not -actually- read either, so probably not the best person to ask.


----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 5, 2011)

Tyrael said:


> This is a conv. thread, so there's no real rules on what you can or can't post. Unless you're here to insult DB's hair, in which case welcome to the team.
> 
> I've heard The Hunger Games is strong and enjoyable, but the one of the two which most interests has to be The Magician. Grossman was a literary a critic and he's an example who comes from a literary background who doesn't hold the disregard for genre stuff that more than a few of his contempories do. As a riff on popular fantasy lit. - Narnia and Harry Potter being the most prominent - it's the one I'd choose.
> 
> That said, I've not -actually- read either, so probably not the best person to ask.



Your take on the matter is still important though, so thanks for helping regardless. 

Reading the descriptions, I am a little more interested in The Magician if it is mixed with Earthsea, an absolute favorite of mine. I have yet to read Harry Potter, but oh well, I'm going to assume its association with The Magician is a good think. 

The Hunger Games though sounds pretty cool. I really like Survivor games and shows, so that catches my  interest.  But I think I'll get The Magician through this deal and find The Hunger Games some other time.


----------



## Dream Brother (Oct 7, 2011)

progress

My predictions:

Boskov is Ravenclaw and Selly is Gryffindor. I'm stuck on Ty, though...hmm.



Tyrael said:


> This is a conv. thread, so there's no real rules on what you can or can't post. Unless you're here to insult DB's hair, in which case welcome to the team.



They also have to like disco. The one unbreakable rule.


----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 7, 2011)

Well, I like _some_ disco. Or does that still break the rule?


----------



## Buskuv (Oct 7, 2011)

It's actual a trick rule; Disco isn't allowed here.

Now you _can't_ post.


----------



## Tyrael (Oct 7, 2011)

> ''As a leader and a person who considers herself fairly brave and trustworthy, I was shocked when I was sorted into Hufflepuff,'' she says. ''Even a little embarrassed. I mean, what were all my Gryffindor friends going to think? I actually started questioning my own personality.''
> 
> Read more: progress



I know people take this shit seriously, but come on. Identity crisis triggered by Hogwarts house assignments? Aye, aye, aye.


----------



## Buskuv (Oct 7, 2011)

Adverts at the bottom:

Suffering from MDD?

Overstock Laptops: 37.99

BiPolar Illness signs

Wow, talk about subtle.


----------



## Terra Branford (Oct 7, 2011)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> It's actual a trick rule; Disco isn't allowed here.
> 
> Now you _can't_ post.



Good thing I'm a rule breaker then.


----------



## Dream Brother (Oct 14, 2011)

Thoughts on _Les Mis?rables_?

I still haven't read it...


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Oct 15, 2011)

I missed Drunk Chris? Damn.


----------



## Tyrael (Oct 15, 2011)

Oh hud yes wheesht.


----------



## Lord Yu (Oct 16, 2011)

Haven't posted here in awhile. But I haven't finished a book in awhile either.


----------



## Damaris (Nov 11, 2011)

Tyrael said:


> I know people take this shit seriously, but come on. Identity crisis triggered by Hogwarts house assignments? Aye, aye, aye.



i don't think it's as ridic as people are making it out to be. this is a series of books that defined an entire generation, there are people who have been thinking of themselves in a certain house mind-set from second or third grade. it's been a _decade_.


----------



## αshɘs (Nov 11, 2011)

I want to start reading some books again. Any recs? The genre doesn't matter. There are some names floating around like Murakami, Ishiguro, Gaiman. Maybe I should try them out, but I don't know where to start.


----------



## Parallax (Nov 11, 2011)

Go with Murakami

Start with Hard Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World

I also would recommend Kafka on the Shore and I really like Norwegian Wood.


----------



## Damaris (Nov 11, 2011)

i second kafka on the shore. i'd also say the corrections (by jonathan franzen) and all the pretty horses by mccarthy if you haven't read those.


----------



## αshɘs (Nov 11, 2011)

Thanks. Murakami it is then.



> i'd also say the corrections (by jonathan franzen) and all the pretty horses by mccarthy if you haven't read those.



I haven't read them, but I'll keep them in mind

which reminds me, Cormac Mccarthy is also someone I should check out someday


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 12, 2011)

Damaris said:


> i don't think it's as ridic as people are making it out to be. this is a series of books that defined an entire generation, there are people who have been thinking of themselves in a certain house mind-set from second or third grade. it's been a _decade_.


People need to be committed for real. That's just BS. 

I'm reading a Doctor Who book, or I was and I was shocked it was good. I shouldn't have been so quick to turn from them. I shall find more.


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 6, 2011)

I don't know what it is about the Lit section that brings the inner negger in me.





Damaris said:


> i don't think it's as ridic as people are making it out to be. this is a series of books that defined an entire generation, there are people who have been thinking of themselves in a certain house mind-set from second or third grade. it's been a _decade_.



For europeans it has been more than a decade. We're talking fifteen years here.

Hell, I was Rowling's neighbor when she lived in portugal



Dream Brother said:


> Thoughts on _Les Mis?rables_?
> 
> I still haven't read it...



Ooooooooh boy.


----------



## Psallo a Cappella (Dec 10, 2011)

Erm, why was the middle of the thread deleted? 
I guess that is a sign to check in more.

Oh, and Murakami's _1Q84_ is a must-read. Perhaps not recommended if you are looking for something lacking his classic core - but I suppose if you are a fan because of that defining characteristic, it will not disappoint.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 10, 2011)

What was deleted?


----------



## Buskuv (Dec 10, 2011)

I'm always up for more Murakami.


----------



## MitsukiShiroi (Dec 15, 2011)

αshɘs said:


> I want to start reading some books again. Any recs? The genre doesn't matter. There are some names floating around like Murakami, Ishiguro, Gaiman. Maybe I should try them out, but I don't know where to start.





Parallax said:


> Go with Murakami
> 
> Start with Hard Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World
> 
> I also would recommend Kafka on the Shore and I really like Norwegian Wood.



Word!

When you're done with Kafka and Norwegian, move on to American Gods by Gaiman. It's such a good and intriguing modern day fantasy. I love it!


----------



## Dream Brother (Dec 20, 2011)

[YOUTUBE]G0k3kHtyoqc[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Pintsize (Jan 1, 2012)

Happy New Year, you wonderful shits. Mine was in Seoul, and one hell of a party. (Till 7 AM.) Year's been rather grand so far. How was yours?


----------



## Terra Branford (Jan 28, 2012)

I've never read Kafka on the Shore.  I hear a lot about it and that its good, but I can't seem to find a copy anywhere, unless I buy online of course (and I don't do that much). Wikipedia has a really good summary of it though, really makes me want to read it. 

I'll try and find it again.

I'm reading Waverly by Sir Walter Scott. Its currently the only book of his I actually own, and not have rented. Wish my library had Ivanhoe or The Bride of Lammermoor. 



Dream Brother said:


> [YOUTUBE]G0k3kHtyoqc[/YOUTUBE]



Is it wrong to like the trailer? lastly, am I the only one who remembers the actor being old in LoTR's flashback of Bilbo finding the ring?


----------



## Garfield (Jan 28, 2012)

Can you do with the ebook?


----------



## Terra Branford (Jan 28, 2012)

Yes, I could. 

I can't seem to find the ebook (even to buy) anywhere though, especially any that is cheaper than 11$. Might as well get the paperback then for less!


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 28, 2012)

Dream Brother said:


> [YOUTUBE]G0k3kHtyoqc[/YOUTUBE]



LOINS!

COMMENCE FULL GRIDLOCK MODE!


----------



## Garfield (Jan 29, 2012)

Terra Branford said:


> Yes, I could.
> 
> I can't seem to find the ebook (even to buy) anywhere though, especially any that is cheaper than 11$. Might as well get the paperback then for less!


Sent you all Murakami works i have in ebooks


----------



## Parallax (Jan 29, 2012)

let us know what you think about the Murakami books, they're beautiful


----------



## αshɘs (Jan 29, 2012)

Started reading Kafka on the Shore today. So far so good. I loved Hard-Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World. Murakami is starting to become a favorite of mine. Fast.


----------



## Buskuv (Jan 29, 2012)

adee said:


> Sent you all Murakami works i have in ebooks



Do me!

I just got a Nook.  :3


----------



## Terra Branford (Jan 29, 2012)

Alright, got the message! I'll start reading them. I should start with Kafka, right? Or are their previous books to it?


----------



## Garfield (Jan 30, 2012)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Do me!
> 
> I just got a Nook.  :3


And I just got a niche

oh...ok I got you. 
Sent the books.


Terra Branford said:


> Alright, got the message! I'll start reading them. I should start with Kafka, right? Or are their previous books to it?



Well, personally, I liked the way I approached his works: I read the short stories first; really got me into a good feel for his style. Then reading Kafka was better because Kafka is really really complex. You'll require more than one reading to totally get it, for sure.


----------



## Serena_Ahnell (Feb 11, 2012)

No posts since 1/30 in this thread?  

Now that's a _shame_.  C'mon guys. =]


----------



## αshɘs (Feb 11, 2012)

This was a good day. Finished reading Kafka on the Shore and watched The Thin Red Line. (And Henry scored on his last match ^^)


----------



## Buskuv (Feb 11, 2012)

I found a copy of Naked Lunch at work to day.  :3


----------



## Lord Yu (Feb 26, 2012)

^I've had that book just sitting on my shelf for a long time.

Just realized I was introduced to Murakami in high school. We read a lot of great stuff in that school.


----------



## Buskuv (Mar 4, 2012)




----------



## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Mar 11, 2012)

Dream Brother said:


> [YOUTUBE]G0k3kHtyoqc[/YOUTUBE]



I did some teaching as part of some community work I was doing last year, and I had the kids read The Hobbit. 9/10 of them hated; they wanted, if you would believe it, to read "Diary of a Wimpy Kid''.

What is the world coming to? x(


----------



## Jimin (Mar 11, 2012)

Well, they were kids and IIRC, the Hobbit was a rather long book. Plus, fantasy isn't for everyone.


----------



## Tyrael (Mar 13, 2012)

Ah, LD, how goes? It feels odd to return to this place after such a long time, as though I do not belong here. Not that that is anyway merited - looks little has changed.


----------



## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Mar 14, 2012)

5 people post here once a month it seems


----------



## Tyrael (Mar 15, 2012)

Haha, so it is more or less the LD of old?

Anyone a fan of The Hunger Games? The movie is coming out soon, and not sure if I should read the book first.


----------



## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Mar 15, 2012)

My cousin is obsessed with it. I personally haven't read the book but because of all the hype my mind is telling me it must be twilight/harry potter-ish. Although, now that I think about it, it's a bit unfair to compare twilight to harry potter.


----------



## Jena (Mar 15, 2012)

Tyrael said:


> Haha, so it is more or less the LD of old?
> 
> Anyone a fan of The Hunger Games? The movie is coming out soon, and not sure if I should read the book first.



I have.
I really liked it. Is it Shakespeare? No. But it's entertaining.
I'd just go ahead and read it. It's pretty short. At first I didn't really like it but once it got into the action I got sucked into it.

More like _Harry Potter_ than _Twilight_ though, by far. Although I don't really think it's that similar to either...


----------



## Buskuv (Mar 15, 2012)

It's Battle Royal, but for Americans.

No, really.


----------



## Jena (Mar 15, 2012)

Premise is the same, stories are completely different.


----------



## Tyrael (Mar 15, 2012)

If I got the gist of what BK was implying, is that it's the same concept and themes applied through the filter of a different culture?


----------



## Dream Brother (Mar 15, 2012)

I've also been wondering about _The Hunger Games_. Seems to be mentioned everywhere at the moment.


----------



## Jena (Mar 15, 2012)

Tyrael said:


> If I got the gist of what BK was implying, is that it's the same concept and themes applied through the filter of a different culture?


I don't know if that's what BK was implying (I think s/he was pointing out that the two stories look pretty much identical when you look at them from a broad perspective, although having read THG and seen the Battle Royale movie I personally don't think that they're the same at all outside of that initial setup) but THG is definitely not Battle Royale through a different cultural lens.

I think Battle Royale is much more political and makes much more of a statement than Hunger Games does (or tries to). Battle Royale's main goal isn't to entertain but to warn, whereas I feel like THG is the exact opposite.



Everyone's entitled to their opinion and nobody knows if Suzanne Collins actually did "draw inspiration" from Battle Royale or not (she claims that the idea is a combination of the legend of Theseus and her flipping through the channels one day and accidentally splicing footage of the Iraq war against a game show) but I do think that they're quite different.



I'm actually reading Battle Royale right now but I'm not very far into it yet. To randomly switch gears...does anyone know if there are multiple published versions of the English translation? I'm reading the copy that my library happened to have and the translation feels really...choppy. I know that Japanse to English is really hard to make, but it reads like a literal translation of the words and is kind of hard to understand. Just wondering if anyone else here encountered that problem or if it's just the version I happen to have.

Also I'm glad this thread is active again I haven't been here in a while.


----------



## Parallax (Mar 15, 2012)

which version do you have?

I have the Viz original one and uh the dialogue is a bit choppy but that may have been the way the book was written.  But it still read fine and I was never confused.  The non dialogue parts were superior.


----------



## Tyrael (Mar 16, 2012)

Apparently you can get the whole trilogy for ?4.99. Totally tempted.


----------



## Buskuv (Mar 16, 2012)

I was mostly taking  a piss.

The demographic seems slightly different between the two, as well.  I don't think Battle Royal, with a lot of its subtext, is quite within YA but that's just me.  Still haven't read Hunger Games yet, but working in a used bookstore I see them all the time--I'll just wait until it's cheap like everything else.


----------



## Jena (Mar 16, 2012)

Parallax said:


> which version do you have?
> 
> I have the Viz original one and uh the dialogue is a bit choppy but that may have been the way the book was written.  But it still read fine and I was never confused.  The non dialogue parts were superior.


It might be the Viz version. I don't have my copy with me so I can't check, but the cover looks like this:




Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I don't think Battle Royal, with a lot of its subtext, is quite within YA but that's just me.


No, it's not just you. I definitely don't think it's YA. The main characters are teenagers but I don't think the book/movie is targeted toward teenagers.

Or at least I hope not. I think it's too fucked up to YA.


----------



## Tyrael (Mar 16, 2012)

Or at least too obviously fucked up. When you're targeting youngsters, the horrible darkness needs to be conveyed through implication more often.

Speaking of which, Dan Wells' I Am Not a Serial Killer is fantastic YA. Very much worth checking out.


----------



## Terra Branford (Mar 17, 2012)

I decided to give the Harry Potter books a try after I watched all the movies the other day. I'm on the first book, Sorcerer's Stone (though I've heard people calling it Philosopher's Stone...) and am on page 157. It is indeed a child's book (not saying that is bad), but I'm hoping it gets funny at least (particularly with Fred and George).

Still reading the Hunger Games, too. I like it, but I'm not that far into it. I've also have been reading the Kefka book, but very slowly I might add. I also want to give Battle Royal a shot, but studying has gotten in the way a lot.  So many books....so little time!


----------



## masamune1 (Mar 17, 2012)

_Philosophers Stone_ is its British name (ie. its _real_ name). Don't know why America changed it.


----------



## Tyrael (Mar 18, 2012)

It's not even as if Rowling invented the concept either - the philosopher's stone is a reference to a specific mythological item. I mean, why not rename the basilisk too if you're going down that path?


----------



## Jena (Mar 18, 2012)

That still pisses me off. 

Maybe I was just a freak, but I knew what the philosopher's stone was when I was 8, and I'm American. It's in a lot of classic stories.


----------



## masamune1 (Mar 18, 2012)

Did they rename just the title or did they change it inside the book too?


----------



## Dream Brother (Mar 18, 2012)

I must restrain myself from watching the leaked Korra episode...

April 14th feels like a long way away.


----------



## Buskuv (Mar 18, 2012)

I did.

It was _glorious_.

As for the Sorcerer's Stone, it was probably so GOD WARRIORS would have something to crusade against in the absence of the Pokemon craze.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 18, 2012)

Doctor B, I want to see the rest of the Peach picture from your avatar por favor...


----------



## Terra Branford (Mar 19, 2012)

Thanks for the earlier answers, guys.  Goodness, Harry is quite rude to poor Hermione in this book. I mean, sure she's bossy and a know-it-all, but my glob man! 

I've begun, because I can't help myself, reading the Dragonriders of Pern series again. This time I'm including the very recent ones, that Todd McCaffery helped with. Supposedly, and I have no idea if I was lied to to keep it secret, some characters from the older books -- rather, the future books! -- appear. Plus, I heard they are great additions to the old stories with pretty good writing. Bought 'em all I did.  Reading certainly fills in the empty and boring hours. 

Wish I had some good sci-fi/fantasy/action book to read though, but I can't find any that sound good by their descriptions.  Anyone have any suggestions on that? I'm trying to read many different books as much as I can, so I can have a longer range of interests and stuff.


----------



## kakoishii (Mar 19, 2012)

Jena said:


> I think Battle Royale is much more political and makes much more of a statement than Hunger Games does (or tries to). Battle Royale's main goal isn't to entertain but to warn, whereas I feel like THG is the exact opposite.



Having read the whole trilogy, I feel this only true up to the 2nd book, by the third one the script has been totally flipped so to speak, which was a big shame or at least imo. For those looking to read the Hunger Games, I'd only be able to recommend the first one with a good conscience. Second book is weaker than the first and the third one is just...well, let's just say it was the first book in a long time that I finished and felt completely pissed off to the point of being at a loss for words.


----------



## Dream Brother (Mar 19, 2012)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I did.
> 
> It was _glorious_.



I couldn't resist any longer...

After the depressive impact of _Mass Effect 3_ (great game, albeit with the problematic ending) Korra was a welcome bout of warmness. So damned good to have a new _Avatar_ series.


----------



## Tyrael (Mar 19, 2012)

Legend of Korra has started airing? Dammit, why was I not informed of this sooner? This is as bad as me just finding out there was a twelve minute long version of I'd Do Anything for Love only last week, I bet you guys all knew, and were hiding it from me. 



Terra Branford said:


> Wish I had some good sci-fi/fantasy/action book to read though, but I can't find any that sound good by their descriptions.  Anyone have any suggestions on that? I'm trying to read many different books as much as I can, so I can have a longer range of interests and stuff.



_The Folding Knife_ by K.J Parker is fantastic. Maybe give the _The Glamour_ by Christopher Priest a look if you want the strange offspring of supernatural romance and psychological horror. _Embedded _by Dan Abnett is as good sci-fi/action book as I've ever read - it's not deep or meaningful or particularly clever, but it's incredibly difficult to put down. _Perdido Street Station_ by China Mieville is essentially a must-read in the fantasy genre. _Thunderer _by Felix Gilman is incredibly unusual and not exactly like anything else, and has incredibly sharp prose. Again, I'd like to reiterate my recc' for _I Am Not a Serial Killer_ by Dan Wells. If you fancy something a bit more dense and literary, _Peace_ by Gene Wolfe has never properly left my mind since I first read it.

Hopefully something amongst that lot tickles your fancy. All books I would swear by.


----------



## masamune1 (Mar 19, 2012)

No, it hasn't started airing. It's just been leaked.


----------



## Banhammer (Mar 19, 2012)

Elantris is giving me a serious bad case of the "why did you have to end" syndrom


----------



## Jena (Mar 19, 2012)

masamune1 said:


> Did they rename just the title or did they change it inside the book too?


No, they changed it on the inside too.
They also changed some of the slang in the first book. 



Dream Brother said:


> I must restrain myself from watching the leaked Korra episode...
> 
> April 14th feels like a long way away.



You have a stronger fortitude than I.


----------



## masamune1 (Mar 19, 2012)

What about the film?

I mean, the film was called _The Sorcerors' Stone_  too. Is there some kind of alternate version that American's got that changed the dialogue like that too?


----------



## Jena (Mar 19, 2012)

masamune1 said:


> What about the film?
> 
> I mean, the film was called _The Sorcerors' Stone_  too. Is there some kind of alternate version that American's got that changed the dialogue like that too?



Yup. In the American version of the movie, they call it the Sorcerer's Stone.
I don't know if they just dubbed over it or what, but it's stupid...


----------



## Terra Branford (Mar 19, 2012)

For the American version of the movie, I am shamed to admit I just watched it and I can't remember which they used. I'll pop in my DVD and check though. Probably Sorcerer's Stone. 

Very silly of them to change it.



Tyrael said:


> _The Folding Knife_ by K.J Parker is fantastic. Maybe give the _The Glamour_ by Christopher Priest a look if you want the strange offspring of supernatural romance and psychological horror. _Embedded _by Dan Abnett is as good sci-fi/action book as I've ever read - it's not deep or meaningful or particularly clever, but it's incredibly difficult to put down. _Perdido Street Station_ by China Mieville is essentially a must-read in the fantasy genre. _Thunderer _by Felix Gilman is incredibly unusual and not exactly like anything else, and has incredibly sharp prose. Again, I'd like to reiterate my recc' for _I Am Not a Serial Killer_ by Dan Wells. If you fancy something a bit more dense and literary, _Peace_ by Gene Wolfe has never properly left my mind since I first read it.
> 
> Hopefully something amongst that lot tickles your fancy. All books I would swear by.



Thanks for the suggests Tyrael!  I'll be sure to try them (not sure which to start with though! Thunderer and Embedded, probably)

I saw your earlier comment on I Am Not a Serial Killer, and checked my library for it. I couldn't find it, but I'll check again in a week and see if its been returned. :>


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 21, 2012)

Well I started reading Red Dragon, not sure what prompted it. I guess I have a craving for fucked up murders...


----------



## Tyrael (Mar 21, 2012)

Red Dragon is a really great book. Still not read Silence of the Lambs though.


----------



## masamune1 (Mar 21, 2012)

I read all through _Silence_ a year or two ago and immediately went onto _Red Dragon..._but then put it down just before the end. Kind of weird, but I've never finished it, even though I've seen the movies and its not like I don't know what happens, and even though I enjoyed it. Strange, but sounds like me.

Both are great, scary books. I love the POV's of the three killers; the seem less like bad human beings and more like evil aliens, really unnerving.


----------



## αshɘs (Mar 21, 2012)

Hmm, I haven't read a good thriller, serial killer book in a while. Any recs?

And Red Dragon was pretty good. Didn't like the adaptation that much for some reason, though Fiennes was cool.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 22, 2012)

I am loving _Red Dragon_ so much so far. I need to finish _Girl With the Dragon Tattoo _too.


----------



## masamune1 (Mar 22, 2012)

Thats not bad either, though I don't know if it deserves _quite_ the acclaim that it has. Still very readable, though.


----------



## Lord Yu (Mar 30, 2012)

130k words of my novel. Soon will be finished with the first part at last.


----------



## Terra Branford (Mar 31, 2012)

Wow, Joe Abercrombie's The Blade Itself is amazing. I would recommend this to anyone who likes A Song of Fire and Ice. Not exactly the same, but the writing is beautiful and shares some similarities, in a good way, not a "copy cat" way. Also, George liked it as well.

Tyrael, I have started some of the books you recommended. Thunderer by Felix Gilman being the first. I could not find the others, yet, but I'll keep looking for them.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 31, 2012)

Lord Yu said:


> 130k words of my novel. Soon will be finished with the first part at last.


That's pretty huge, any plans?


----------



## Han Solo (Mar 31, 2012)

Terra Branford said:


> Wow, Joe Abercrombie's The Blade Itself is amazing. I would recommend this to anyone who likes A Song of Fire and Ice. Not exactly the same, but the writing is beautiful and shares some similarities, in a good way, not a "copy cat" way. Also, George liked it as well.



I thought The Blade Itself was the weakest part of the trilogy, I found that The First Law gets really good during Before They Are Hanged. I wonder what you'll think of Logen's character once you finish the series, he's an interestingly developed character.


----------



## Dream Brother (Mar 31, 2012)

I've actually been reading Abercrombie's _First Law_ books recently too. This is either the second or third time, can't recall. I never get tired of 'em. (.)


----------



## Terra Branford (Mar 31, 2012)

@Han Solo:

Really? Then if I find the first book good, then I will definitely enjoy the others. Hopefully, however he develops, I'll still 'care' for the character (good or bad, if its done right).

@Dream Brother:

Thanks for the link! I'll check it out now.


----------



## masamune1 (Mar 31, 2012)

Well, since we're talking about _The First Law_ and writing novels, this seems relevant- Joe Abercrombie on writing his latest book:





			
				First Words said:
			
		

> The work of heavy revision continues apace.  The first thing I’ve done is to boil down all my various plans, notes, scrag-ends of leftover dialogue or ideas cut as I’ve gone along, throw most of it away and keep anything that looked like it might still be useful, combined it with recommendations and observations from my editor and readers, thought about themes, characters, settings, plot points, and etc. that I need to include or further attend to, and boiled it all down into a single document that attempts to present to me in a (roughly) comprehensible form all the stuff I already know I still need to do to this book.  There’s quite a lot there.
> 
> The heaviest lifting (as is often the case) needs doing at the start.  The start is probably the most important part of your book.  You need to introduce central characters, something of their past and personality, their relationships with others, you need to lay out something of the nature of the setting, perhaps set the plot rolling, but above all you need to do all this in a way that’s quick, sharp, interesting.  Perhaps you need small surprises, little mysteries, setup questions to draw the reader on.  Perhaps you need some early action to grab the scruff of the neck.  Whatever the method, you need to involve the reader and keep them reading.  After all, a shitty ending might leave someone with a sour taste, but a book abandoned after five pages is going to leave an even sourer one.
> 
> ...


----------



## Dream Brother (Apr 1, 2012)

I saw _The Hunger Games_, and it was actually pretty good, aside from a few areas. I haven't read the book, so no idea how much of a faithful adaptation it was, though.


----------



## αshɘs (Apr 1, 2012)

I like these manhunt-show scenarios, but I'm not pumped to watch this movie. It got good reviews, but I don't know....


----------



## mootz (Apr 9, 2012)

Anyone read David Weber's Honor Harrington Series?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 9, 2012)

Anyone with a Kindle, iPad, Nook or a computer and eyes can check out a free preview of the e-book novella thing I've been working on. Formats are as follows: 

*Kindle Link*
*Nook/iPhone/iPad Link*
*PDF*


----------



## Banhammer (Apr 9, 2012)

We need a pandora of literature

As in, you input some books you like, and it'll output some books that are in the same vein


----------



## Jena (Apr 9, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> We need a pandora of literature
> 
> As in, you input some books you like, and it'll output some books that are in the same vein





You type in a book title and it gives you similar books.


----------



## Lord Yu (Apr 10, 2012)

Started reading Blood Meridian. Somehow Cormac McCarthy makes the old west seem as mystical as any fantasy world.


----------



## Dream Brother (Apr 14, 2012)

Hmm...I ended up in Ravenclaw for the  sorting test. I still think I'm a Hufflepuff, though. 

Also, happy Korra Day.



Lord Yu said:


> Started reading Blood Meridian. Somehow Cormac McCarthy makes the old west seem as mystical as any fantasy world.



I need to read some of his stuff...I was thinking about getting _The Road_ a while ago.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 25, 2012)

Just started reading Mistborn, I hate high fantasy normally but I am loving this book.

Someone did ask me "Aren't you kind of offended that the author is a Mormon?' 

I actually didn't know and couldn't tell, doesn't make the book bad or make him a bad person though.


----------



## Tyrael (May 8, 2012)

You mean your not offended that a person holds an individual set of personal beliefs that in no way effects you? How bigoted of you CTK.


----------



## αshɘs (Jun 10, 2012)

I think the Euro will have a bad influence on my reading plans :/


----------



## Lord Yu (Jun 26, 2012)

I think I've just written the strangest euphemism I've ever written.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 4, 2012)

Over a month between posts.



I think when I have more time I'll start just stream-of-consciousness writing on off times, so I can at least get some of this stuff out of my head and onto paper.  Sometimes I get cool ideas from it.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 4, 2012)

The Lit Department never really has been particularly active.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 4, 2012)

It's still sad.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 4, 2012)

I get my writing kicks elsewhere these days. I don't really discuss reading with people at all anymore.


----------



## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Aug 31, 2012)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I get my writing kicks elsewhere these days. I don't really discuss reading with people at all anymore.



Really?

I am _this_ close to suggesting a book club at work with a group of girls- my only problem is that they keep suggesting absolute rubbish. latest pick?

50 shades of grey


----------



## Terra Branford (Aug 31, 2012)

Sadly the literature sections of lots of forums are also inactive. Not a lot of people like reading anymore, and if they do, it isn't something they want to have discussions about. The most I can get literature or writing discussions/threads to is about three of four pages before it is forgotten by nearly 90% of the forum entirely. 

It is depressing that it is so rare. 

@Pacha Batofar:

50 Shades of Grey?


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 31, 2012)

I grabbed this nicely bound collection of H.P. Lovecraft's short stories, and I really want to start collecting nice leatherbound books but I don't have room for it.


----------



## horsdhaleine (Sep 1, 2012)

I must really be behind the times. But what is the _50 Shades of Grey_ about? All I know about it is that an old classmate ranted about it in facebook, complaining that it was all crap. Saw the book in the bookstore and found the cover appealing. But my heart was leaning towards a Roberto Bola?o book though. Unfortunately, I didn't have a budget for it during that time. 

(Yes, I'm one of those boring people who plan their expected expenses ahead of time.)


----------



## Lord Yu (Sep 1, 2012)

It's Twilight erotic fanfiction with the names changed. I'm serious. Anyway, it's just badly written light BDSM porn, nothing to really get excited about.


----------



## Tyrael (Sep 1, 2012)

When I was selling it at my work it was classed as porn, and we were not allowed to sell it to anyone under the age of 18. Read into that as you will.


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 1, 2012)

Seriously? Twilightish? I was thinking it was, but I couldn't really find anything that supported it. That makes it even worse. 

@Dr. Boskov Krevorkian:

I know how you feel! Do you have a living space? Just take everything out, put up  some shelves and bam. More book space.


----------



## αshɘs (Sep 1, 2012)

Visited an online bookstore today since there's a big sale with lots of 40-50-70 discounts. 50 Shades of Grey was #1 on the '100 top adult books of the week' list. And that with a normal prize. smh

Btw a couple of months ago Naruto volume 5 (or 6, can't remember) also took that title


----------



## Parallax (Sep 1, 2012)

whats the site, I'm always looking for good books on the cheap


----------



## horsdhaleine (Sep 1, 2012)

If it's that bad, I just hope with won't rise to the cult status like that of Ana?s Nin.  After all, it's the future generation who will judge our contemporary writers. Still, I have faith in good taste. 

Boskov needs a new bookshelf.


----------



## αshɘs (Sep 1, 2012)

oh, it's a hungarian bookstore, Para


----------



## horsdhaleine (Sep 1, 2012)

Hit the second hand bookstore. That's where I mostly buy.


----------



## Lord Yu (Sep 1, 2012)

Frankly, I really can't summon enough feeling to do anything but chuckle at Fifty Shades of Grey and it's popularity.  It's nowhere near as damaging as Twilight was to speculative fiction.  It's fluff that will disappear soon enough.


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 1, 2012)

We sell that damn book all the time at work lol.

And, Terra, I live in an efficiency apartment, so I have to balance space between all the cool stuff I want and basic living requirements.  Maybe at one time I'll have more space, but it sucks now.


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 1, 2012)

Ah, I see. Well, you could always turn your bed or sofa into a storage system by creating a box underneath the sofa/bed with drawers. I know some people who live in studio apartments that have found some really weird ways to create extra space.


----------



## Dream Brother (Sep 1, 2012)

Thread activity?


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 1, 2012)

God, I need to watch Korra.


----------



## Tyrael (Sep 2, 2012)

Same - frustratingly enough seen like half the series. Was originally waiting for it to come on in the UK, but I may have missed that boat.


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 2, 2012)

There are lots of sites to watch them on, if you are still willing. Or, the Pimp thread run by Synn.


----------



## horsdhaleine (Sep 2, 2012)

I watched it online. 

I prefer watching series on my own pace than waiting for it to air on the television.


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 2, 2012)

I know; I'll see if I can find some way to watch it on my PS3 since I've been spoiled by Netflix.


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 2, 2012)

I'm spoiled since I want it on a big screen.


----------



## Wizard (Sep 2, 2012)

hi, first post in this part of the forum.

anyways i am thinking about starting a writer's club for school. There is already a newspaper and book club but any ideas for meetings for this new club?


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 2, 2012)

Dr. Boskov, I don't think they have Korra on Netflix yet.


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 2, 2012)

Terra Branford said:


> Dr. Boskov, I don't think they have Korra on Netflix yet.



Nope.

But I can watch Avatar.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 4, 2012)

Lord Yu said:


> Frankly, I really can't summon enough feeling to do anything but chuckle at Fifty Shades of Grey and it's popularity.  It's nowhere near as damaging as Twilight was to speculative fiction.  It's fluff that will disappear soon enough.


Twilight? Damaging? You sound like those old people who thought Jazz music and pot were destroying America.


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 4, 2012)

Anyone hear of A Discovery of Witches? I've being suggested to read it by a couple of people, but I don't want to read something that isn't good.  I can't seem to find anything among lists anymore than isn't romance related (terrible) or 50 Shades of Grey suggestions or its knock-offs.

Speaking of Jazz music, I love it. 

@Dr. Boskov:

Really? They have tTLA now? I guess Netflix just hated me.


----------



## horsdhaleine (Sep 5, 2012)

I read a short excerpt about the tampon scene. 

That was enough for me to stop, I guess.


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 5, 2012)

Tampon scene? What?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 5, 2012)

horsdhaleine said:


> I read a short excerpt about the tampon scene.
> 
> That was enough for me to stop, I guess.


Oh my Gawd, someone wrote about something only a little over half of the planet goes through in a graphic manner. Stop the presses.


----------



## horsdhaleine (Sep 5, 2012)

It wasn't my fault. Blame the NFer who link it in the thread.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 5, 2012)

Period sex happens. And a little blood never hurt anybody. I think it's just as silly how men behave when the subject of menstruation comes up. We don't need women acting like that too.


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 5, 2012)

Did the scene actually have anything to do with menstruation though? I have read some creepy stuff from that book, so it is possible...


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 5, 2012)

Terra Branford said:


> Did the scene actually have anything to do with menstruation though? I have read some creepy stuff from that book, so it is possible...


Basically the scene is of him asking her when her period started, then telling her to bend over the sink so that he can pull her tampon out and they have sex. Most of the sex is very badly written, she's going "oh Jeeze" and the like during it and it just doesn't read like a person who's had an orgasm, let alone sex.


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 5, 2012)

Ah, I see. It isn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. I keep reading the author meant the book as a joke, and other places claim it isn't. I hope it was meant to be a joke...


----------



## Sanity Check (Sep 5, 2012)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Basically the scene is of him asking her when her period started, then telling her to bend over the sink so that he can pull her tampon out and they have sex. Most of the sex is very badly written, she's going "oh Jeeze" and the like during it and it just doesn't read like a person who's had an orgasm, let alone sex.



Obviously the work of a male gendered author?

*ba-ding tsst*


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 5, 2012)

Wizard said:


> hi, first post in this part of the forum.
> 
> anyways i am thinking about starting a writer's club for school. There is already a newspaper and book club but any ideas for meetings for this new club?



A bit late, but...

There is the Writer's FC. You could ask that there and will get a lot more replies.


----------



## horsdhaleine (Sep 7, 2012)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Period sex happens. And a little blood never hurt anybody. I think it's just as silly how men behave when the subject of menstruation comes up. We don't need women acting like that too.



I know period sex happens. 



Terra Branford said:


> A bit late, but...
> 
> There is the Writer's FC. You could ask that there and will get a lot more replies.



There is one? I didn't know. 

Link it here, please. Thanks.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 7, 2012)

horsdhaleine said:


> Link it here, please. Thanks.



The Link's in my signature.


----------



## horsdhaleine (Sep 8, 2012)

I actually disabled sigs but thanks...

And that shisha thread...


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 8, 2012)

You disabled sigs? But how will you see Oswin


----------



## Terra Branford (Sep 10, 2012)

Well since you have signatures disabled horsdhaleine—and I would understand why you would disable sigs—here is a link to the thread.


----------



## horsdhaleine (Sep 10, 2012)

Haha yeah. Some sigs are so big, it makes the place look a little cluttered. :x


----------



## Distance (Sep 18, 2012)

So how about a 'Rate the Last Book You Read' thread?


----------



## Jimin (Sep 18, 2012)

We kinda already have that. It's just the "What book have you finished recently?" thread. Just put a rating there. Simple as that.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Nov 3, 2012)

For those who wonder how I buy books so fast in days within one another --

1) Fortunate that Toronto has some bookshops where they have discounts on virtually all books, including those recently released. As long as you don't mind the black marker marks on top or bottom of the books. I literally buy ~$100 or $200 at 50% or more discount.

2) I love books. Of course I'd buy them.


----------



## Dream Brother (Nov 14, 2012)




----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 15, 2012)

What's all this now then?


----------



## Damaris (Nov 15, 2012)

i always thought this convo title was an astronautalis reference

then i realized i was wrong


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 15, 2012)

Anony34215 said:


> i always thought this convo title was an astronautalis reference
> 
> then i realized i was wrong


It is...I made it like that intentionally.


----------



## Damaris (Nov 15, 2012)

oh really??? i saw mark helprin's quote floating around on goodreads one day and figured that was where you got it from, since he's a writer but wow i'm glad i was right.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 15, 2012)

I am rarely looking around on Good Reads like that, but another member here (Amnesia) introduced me to them.


----------



## Damaris (Dec 6, 2012)

whatever happened to this section's poetry & flash fiction contests?


----------



## Buskuv (Dec 9, 2012)

Died out.

Or, rather, we lost the people interested.  Though, I'm sure with enough fanfare we might be  able to resuscitate it.  It'll help with my own writing that I'm trying so badly to do again.


----------



## Tyrael (Dec 20, 2012)

Alright folks, if your interested in getting an FF comp up and going then post to say your interested.


----------



## Buskuv (Dec 20, 2012)

Or I'll send the hounds after you.


----------



## Tyrael (Dec 20, 2012)

You make it sound as if that isn't essentially an inevitable outcome anyway.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 20, 2012)

I'm holding the office down solo today, and wow my productivity is through the roof.


----------



## Tyrael (Dec 20, 2012)

Tell your boss to fire everyone but you, and pay you their wages. In this tough economic climate, it's the way to go.


----------



## Buskuv (Dec 21, 2012)

Makes the most sense.

Do it.


----------



## Buskuv (Jan 3, 2013)

Would anyone be up for a revival of the book club?

I say this because I have access to lots of books now, so obviously my participation depends solely on how lazily I can acquire the books.


----------



## Krory (Jan 3, 2013)

For the most part my only access to books is downloading them online (which is often good access these days, I think, depending on the rarity and familiarity of the book). I also have about seven books I just bought that I still need to read but for the sake of getting some activity here (hopefully), I think I could take part.

I think it's worth noting that just under a month ago, it seemed Agsrower and keiiya both showed interest in the book club as well.


----------



## Buskuv (Jan 3, 2013)

Yeah, it would get intermittent posts and interest, but no one was around to rebound the sentiment.  Maybe if we drum up more activity, we could again.


----------



## Krory (Jan 3, 2013)

Well hopefully if FlashFiction keeps going we can hook in more people to participate and by extension get more attention on other things. Could try spreading by word of mouth. She went away for a week or so, but Ags is still active in the Blender and my member FC (amongst other places), so could see if she's still interested and try to reach out to some other people. Maybe just to get the place more active in general, even.


----------



## tgre (Jan 3, 2013)

you have my sword/axe/bow/vaseline etc for book club idea

let's club some books fuck yeah.


----------



## Tyrael (Jan 3, 2013)

I'm down. Reading a really good book then not having anyone to talk to it about is something that always kinda bugs me, like an itch that I can scratch yet refuses to go away.


----------



## Damaris (Jan 3, 2013)

wynaut

i need to start reading more now that i've flipped college off


----------



## Buskuv (Jan 3, 2013)

Well, my little link in my sig, for whatever reason, has drawn a lot of people to the section, so I might start just having a little cluster of LD related links in in there.  I think if the momentum is right, and we get active participants in the section, things like the Book Club and Poetry contests would be easy to do.


----------



## Krory (Jan 3, 2013)

I, for one, was brought here by that very link (though it was really a combination of factors, but that was definitely one of them), so I think it would be a most excellent idea. And I'll do the same.

Though I think the bright pink text in my signature might throw some people off, but hey, whatevs.


----------



## Laura (Jan 4, 2013)

Hey I'm still keen for the bookclub. 

Also if the writing competitions became more active, would it be possible to start using a points system similar to the ones in the art competitions so that regular winners could start earning prizes? I reckon writing is on par with art and it could bring in a lot more activity to the section.


----------



## Krory (Jan 4, 2013)

Agsrower said:


> Hey I'm still keen for the bookclub.
> 
> Also if the writing competitions became more active, would it be possible to start using a points system similar to the ones in the art competitions so that regular winners could start earning prizes? I reckon writing is on par with art and it could bring in a lot more activity to the section.



Actually, it looks like that is exactly what is going to be happening. Check out the LD Prize Parlour thread (it's stickied). Smaug/Boskov recently did and update to it (and got control of it).


----------



## Tyrael (Jan 6, 2013)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW85ANPdHf0[/YOUTUBE]

Y'all should watch Psychoville, and then hate yourself for not watching it sooner.


----------



## Krory (Jan 6, 2013)

I watched it and then hated society for it ending.


----------



## Buskuv (Jan 6, 2013)

I can only watch things on Netflix and Hulu.

I kind of wish I had BBC, but I would only watch like 5 channels and I'm not paying for 100 channels to watch a twentieth of them.  Bahhh.


----------



## Tyrael (Jan 6, 2013)

Krory said:


> I watched it and then hated society for it ending.



Pretty much.

Though, to be fair, it ended on a really strong note, and resolved almost everything really well. It could have been much worse, and suffered the same fate as Jeckyll.



Smaug said:


> I can only watch things on Netflix and Hulu.
> 
> I kind of wish I had BBC, but I would only watch like 5 channels and I'm not paying for 100 channels to watch a twentieth of them.  Bahhh.



Psychoville is on the UK netflix - might be worth seeing if it's on the US one.


----------



## Buskuv (Jan 6, 2013)

Then definitely will look into it.

Not that I don't already have wayyy too much of a backlog on TV anyways, but the more them merrier, right?

I'm also trying to do my FF but, as always, I either can or I can't, and it drives me mad.  All my old friends are back, and it's awful.  I wonder how it works, because I sure as hell have no idea.


----------



## Buskuv (Jan 13, 2013)

I need some more non-fiction titles.

All I have are philosophy books and music biographies and histories.


----------



## Garfield (Jan 27, 2013)

Absolutely stunning infographic of les Miserable

X


----------



## Toby (Feb 14, 2013)

Psychoville, huh? Looks promising. Will get on that.



Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I need some more non-fiction titles.
> 
> All I have are philosophy books and music biographies and histories.



Wut kind of non-fiction. Are you interested in popular science or maybe social commentaries on politics or social development? 

I picked up a book on astrology in college and found it was amazingly good for my brain. Reading politics and statistics can scramble it well good, and astrology unwraps it again and fills it with cool stories about star signs.


----------



## Buskuv (Feb 17, 2013)

Toby said:


> Psychoville, huh? Looks promising. Will get on that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I do quite enjoy science in general.  Mostly just the stuff my blue-collar brain doesn't have to try too hard to understand, though--theories and general information about it.  The Science Channel is probably one of the few channels I ever watch if I have the chance.

I enjoy politics, too, as well as social commentary but I'm far less versed with it and have no direction when it comes to topics or authors.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Feb 17, 2013)

So I have been trying a new exercise to get into the head of one of my characters...basically I am writing a blog from her perspective. Starting on December 24th 2012 and coming up to current and beyond. No idea how it's going to end up turning out. But it's been pretty fun so far.


----------



## αshɘs (Mar 17, 2013)

Finally started reading again after half a year. And of course it's a Murakami piece. 

Also, they just keep advertising these Bear Grylls books over here. lol


----------



## Tyrael (Mar 17, 2013)

αshɘs said:


> Finally started reading again after half a year. And of course it's a Murakami piece.
> 
> Also, they just keep advertising these Bear Grylls books over here. lol



I assume they are basically hollow, with a variety disgusting and still living creatures to eat inside?


----------



## αshɘs (Mar 19, 2013)

Just went on a bookstore site to check stuff and I see Fifty Shades of Grey/Freed/Darker are in still in the top 4. Last I checked, which was months ago, the first book was already at the top after its release. There's also this one titled Bared to You - A Crossfire novel at #5, which reading the synopsis looks suspiciously from the same ilk as the aforementioned. Just great. Once this calms down, what's going to be the next craze I wonder -_-


----------



## Tyrael (Mar 19, 2013)

I still can't get over the fact that the newest craze is just porn. I feel like there's not many places you can go once that line has been crossed.


----------



## Dream Brother (Apr 8, 2013)

Just finished _Bioshock Infinite_.

I'm not going to spoil anything, but...er...not much idea what to think about it at the moment. Trying to get my head around it. Certainly a very ambitious and interesting game.


----------



## Amrun (Apr 19, 2013)

Tyrael said:


> I still can't get over the fact that the newest craze is just porn. I feel like there's not many places you can go once that line has been crossed.



Clearly, you've never read any good erotica.

Obviously, there's tons of shit in the genre, as there's tons of shit in any genre, but when it's good, it's sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo good.

How many relationships truly exist in a separate vacuum from the bedroom?  (Answer: none.)

It can lend itself to much more realistic story telling.


----------



## αshɘs (May 11, 2013)

hey Dream Brother, BotI has ended. The last chapter just got released.

I should probably re-read the whole series at some point.


----------



## Dream Brother (May 12, 2013)

Gonna post my thoughts in the BotI thread. Feels odd to finally see it end.


----------



## αshɘs (May 13, 2013)

Now if only Berserk could end. Don't even remember the last time I read a chapter.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 16, 2013)

*Question for everyone here: *There was a book that came out in the last three years or so that was a collaborative Thriller or Mystery where some pretty well known authors got together and each created a character and each of them did a chapter in a round robin format until it was done. Has anyone heard of this book?


----------



## Magicbullet (May 17, 2013)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> *Question for everyone here: *There was a book that came out in the last three years or so that was a collaborative Thriller or Mystery where some pretty well known authors got together and each created a character and each of them did a chapter in a round robin format until it was done. Has anyone heard of this book?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 17, 2013)

Damn man, you're a bad ass. I think that's it.


----------



## Magicbullet (May 17, 2013)

Glad to have helped, there aren't many books like that.


----------



## horsdhaleine (May 30, 2013)

Hey, have you guys seen ? Which writer did you get? I tried it several times and got different writers but certain ones keep coming up.


----------



## Tyrael (May 30, 2013)

Harry Harrison apparently, which kinda sounds like a made-up name.


----------



## Cyphon (May 30, 2013)

Has anyone in here read The Black Company?

I am about finished the first book and haven't enjoyed it much but I am curious if it changes/gets better in the other books. Not sure about dropping it after this.


----------



## Tyrael (May 30, 2013)

It definitely gets better - the first has an awkward structure to it.

But if you didn't enjoy the first, the feel of the story doesn't really change, so you probably won't enjoy the rest really. Cook has a pretty unusual style and way of plotting and characterising, and if that's what you didn't like about it then probably best not to pick up any of the sequels.


----------



## horsdhaleine (May 31, 2013)

I keep getting H.P. Lovecraft and Arthur Clarke and I don't know them. 

My eyes lit up when I got Vladimir Nabokov though. Now, if I could really write like him...


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jul 1, 2013)




----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 25, 2013)

This girl made a book into a dress:


----------



## Psallo a Cappella (Jul 25, 2013)

horsdhaleine said:


> Hey, have you guys seen ? Which writer did you get? I tried it several times and got different writers but certain ones keep coming up.




This is the coolest site ever! You're awesome. I tried six times, with different samples each:
Margaret Mitchell
Chuck Palahniuk
Chuck Palahniuk
Dan Brown
H.P. Lovecraft
Edgar Allen Poe

Pfft, I wish. 

Not the most consistent, haha. The seventh time was Stephen King. I think it's due to the variety of samples I gave it, though. 

Anyway, I completed undergrad, which means more time to read! 

@CTK:  That's gorgeous.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 25, 2013)

I have no idea how she managed to do it, some of the people on Reddit are amazing.


----------



## Buskuv (Jul 27, 2013)

horsdhaleine said:


> Hey, have you guys seen ? Which writer did you get? I tried it several times and got different writers but certain ones keep coming up.



I put  in and got David Foster Wallace.

I'm blushing.



horsdhaleine said:


> *I keep getting H.P. Lovecraft and Arthur Clarke and I don't know them. *
> 
> My eyes lit up when I got Vladimir Nabokov though. Now, if I could really write like him...



That's really surprising and really unfortunate.

You should rectify that.



Psallo a Cappella said:


> This is the coolest site ever! You're awesome. I tried six times, with different samples each:
> Margaret Mitchell
> Chuck Palahniuk
> Chuck Palahniuk
> ...



I think I'd be a little offended.  >_>


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 27, 2013)

Dan Brown novels are the Twilight novels of Thrillers.


----------



## Buskuv (Jul 27, 2013)

Exactly.  **


----------



## Tyrael (Jul 28, 2013)

The idea that you have a style that is mostly like Palahniuk but with smatterings of Brown is what gets me.

Yeah, I've variously gotten David Foster Wallace, Lovecraft, Conan Doyle and Arthur C. Clarke. It feels a bit random, really.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 28, 2013)

All it gave me was Chuck P, which makes sense. I kind of bit my teeth on that.


----------



## Buskuv (Jul 29, 2013)

Tyrael said:


> The idea that you have a style that is mostly like Palahniuk but with smatterings of Brown is what gets me.
> 
> Yeah, I've variously gotten David Foster Wallace, Lovecraft, Conan Doyle and Arthur C. Clarke. It feels a bit random, really.



You know what it feels like? 

It feels like I put the word 'dicks' 700 times in a row into the website and got Palahniuk.  It's cool, but I have no idea how it works.


----------



## horsdhaleine (Jul 29, 2013)

Psallo a Cappella said:


> This is the coolest site ever! You're awesome. I tried six times, with different samples each:
> Margaret Mitchell
> Chuck Palahniuk
> Chuck Palahniuk
> ...



I also got various writers too as I played with it. I also got Palahnuik several times. Then I got Stephanie Meyer once and I was like, _NO! Not her! I have to post another text!_ 

And...

_*Congratulations!!!
​*_
I can't believe you finished undergrad now. Time flies by so fast. I'm glad you still remember to drop by. I hope you will get a job you like. Are you planning to work in the US or try your luck abroad? I assume your major is communications-related, so I'm sure there are many opportunities for that. 

I'm also at a different phase in my life. I quit my awesome job that was yes, super awesome but eventually took too much of my energy and affected me negatively. (I became whinier, I react to provocations easily, at one point I collapse in front of a building after my duty and no, I didn't lose consciousness; my legs were too tired and painful that they became jelly. Zits flare up on my face too. Gaaah.)

I'm going to take a break and hopefully, I'd get a new job after. But before that, let me read the unfinished books that piled up on my table...


----------



## Psallo a Cappella (Jul 29, 2013)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I think I'd be a little offended.  >_>



I was indifferent - I don't think I've ever read anything by him. Not intrigued by what he writes about.

But - but - I only got it once! I wish I could remember the sample I fed for that one. And I like Palahniuk, but to have it show up often was confusing because he's far from a favorite. 




> Horsdhaleine:
> I also got various writers too as I played with it. I also got Palahnuik several times. Then I got Stephanie Meyer once and I was like, NO! Not her! I have to post another text!



I definitely can't blame you for cringing at the Stephanie Meyer result; I would too. That's more insulting to me than Dan Brown. 



> I can't believe you finished undergrad now. Time flies by so fast. I'm glad you still remember to drop by. I hope you will get a job you like. Are you planning to work in the US or try your luck abroad? I assume your major is communications-related, so I'm sure there are many opportunities for that.
> 
> I'm also at a different phase in my life. I quit my awesome job that was yes, super awesome but eventually took too much of my energy and affected me negatively. (I became whinier, I react to provocations easily, at one point I collapse in front of a building after my duty and no, I didn't lose consciousness; my legs were too tired and painful that they became jelly. Zits flare up on my face too. Gaaah.)
> 
> I'm going to take a break and hopefully, I'd get a new job after. But before that, let me read the unfinished books that piled up on my table...



Thank you for the congrats!! pek I can't believe it either, and you're so right about time flying by. My younger sibling is growing up, and so many of my peers are marrying and starting families. I'm open to both the U.S. and abroad, and I have the feeling I'll be moving around haphazardly for a while. I am not good at settling. PR and Intercultural Communications is what I ended up deciding on in the end, with a smattering of random classes in Public Policy, Asian Studies, and poetry. 

If a job does that to you, I understand leaving it. Stress can be destabilizing, and I am glad you were able to leave it.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 29, 2013)

Speaking of Chuck P:

Link removed




> A friend in my writing group passed this along to me. A bible of sorts for aspiring writers:
> 
> 
> In six seconds, you’ll hate me.
> ...


----------



## horsdhaleine (Jul 31, 2013)

Oh you have a younger sibling! How old?

What books are on your list? I actually have a number of books I wasn't able to finish when I was working. I'm planning to reread and finish them in the next few weeks or so.

Yeah, the ability to leave is empowering. I feel free.


----------



## Garfield (Jul 31, 2013)

@horsdhaleine:

I put in  and got William Shakespear...

Then I put in  and got Oscar Wilde...

Wow, talk about authors that I have most trouble understanding, apparently I write just like them.

edit: Ooh for my latest piece (the most  ) I got Cory Doctorow, who I actually like! Nice.


----------



## Psallo a Cappella (Jul 31, 2013)

horsdhaleine said:


> Oh you have a younger sibling! How old?
> 
> What books are on your list? I actually have a number of books I wasn't able to finish when I was working. I'm planning to reread and finish them in the next few weeks or so.
> 
> Yeah, the ability to leave is empowering. I feel free.



He's 15, and growing so fast. Literally, he just turned 15 and he is taller than me, and his shoulders are much wider than mine! It's amazing.

I usually try to keep track of everything on Goodreads; otherwise I can't remember novels that people recommend me. What I want to read in the immediate (near) future:

A Dance with Dragons - R.R. Martin (on hold)
The Casual Vacancy - J.K. Rowling (currently reading)
The Autobiography of a Tibetan Monk - Palden Gyatso (currently reading)
State and Wacker:  A Story of PR in Chicago - Burt Zolo
Five Myths About Nuclear Weapons - Wilson Ward

I want to read some Tolstoy again, too, and Anchee Min, Neil Gaiman.


----------



## horsdhaleine (Aug 5, 2013)

Seems like R.R. Martin is on many people's list. Author must be delighted.

Is Cory Doctorow considered a professional writer/author? Or is he just a popular blogger?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 5, 2013)

Martin is pretty overrated and is working hard to continue the Eruocentric, unimaginative way that High Fantasy has been told since basically Tolkien. I prefer Mistborn (which is pretty damn inventive with his creatures and the like) over Martin's world and his writing style could use an editor or two to cut the bullshit out. There's entire sections of the book that could be condensed down and it seems like he's just doing it so that it feels epic. Because all epic means is long books to some people. Doesn't matter that over the course of five fucking books like two years has passed and a lot of the stuff we want to see still hasn't happened yet. 

I predict an ending like Lost where everyone is upset and it's barely resolved. The man's writing more checks than he can cash. 


I've given up on the books and will just watch the show from here on out. It's better about not wasting my time over silliness it seems.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 5, 2013)

I like Mistborn, too, but Sanderson is by far more dry than Martin.  Like, his characters and dialog are pretty mediocre--if he had written typical High Fantasy he'd be given a lot more shit, but because he's got a great sense for world building, he does get a pass on it.

It's not bad by any means, but it can be boring.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 5, 2013)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I like Mistborn, too, but Sanderson is by far more dry than Martin.  Like, his characters and dialog are pretty mediocre--if he had written typical High Fantasy he'd be given a lot more shit, but because he's got a great sense for world building, he does get a pass on it.
> 
> It's not bad by any means, but it can be boring.



The world building is very interesting. And you're just who I was looking for. I was wondering if you could take a look at something for me


----------



## Tyrael (Aug 5, 2013)

I really dislike Sanderson's style, and I don't find his world building convincing to be honest. I do like the man's books, as easy reads and including amazing magic systems, but I'd find it hard to say he's not more than a slightly better than average fantasy writer.



horsdhaleine said:


> Seems like R.R. Martin is on many people's list. Author must be delighted.
> 
> Is Cory Doctorow considered a professional writer/author? Or is he just a popular blogger?



He's an extremely successful sci-fi author, who has had a lot of books published through major publishing houses. The blogging and internet jazz came about only after he was an established author.


----------



## Dream Brother (Aug 5, 2013)

Sanderson's magic system in the _Mistborn_ books is what stood out to me. Aside from that, I thought he was okay, but nothing great. (The end of his second _Mistborn_ book also annoyed me so much that I never read the third one.) I think Martin has a much better grasp of characterisation, and I prefer his general narrative choices too. That being said, I wasn't really a fan of _A Dance with Dragons_.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 5, 2013)

See, I hate most of Martin's characters and I feel like the ones that I like are held hostage in there.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 5, 2013)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> The world building is very interesting. And you're just who I was looking for. I was wondering if you could take a look at something for me



I can, sure.

But the million dollar question:

What is it?



Tyrael said:


> I really dislike Sanderson's style, and I don't find his world building convincing to be honest. I do like the man's books, as easy reads and including amazing magic systems, but I'd find it hard to say he's not more than a slightly better than average fantasy writer.
> 
> 
> 
> He's an extremely successful sci-fi author, who has had a lot of books published through major publishing houses. The blogging and internet jazz came about only after he was an established author.



I thought his Way of Kings much improved the dry style of Mistborn (of which I was, admittedly, a fan); I'm excited for the next installment, but his doorstopper novels take a long time to come out. 

Warbreaker is pretty interesting, actually.  It rarely gets discussed.



Dream Brother said:


> Sanderson's magic system in the _Mistborn_ books is what stood out to me. Aside from that, I thought he was okay, but nothing great. (The end of his second _Mistborn_ book also annoyed me so much that I never read the third one.) I think Martin has a much better grasp of characterisation, and I prefer his general narrative choices too. That being said, I wasn't really a fan of _A Dance with Dragons_.



The second book is by far the worst; if you can stomach it, do read the third.  it gets a little... deus ex near the end, but it's still a good ride.  

Sanderson is most known for Mistborn, but it's probably my least favorite of his books.  Elantris, Warbreaker and the Stormlight Archives are, in my opinion, better, especially with characters.

I like Martin, and boy do I like low fantasy more than high fantasy, but Martin intentionally antagonizes his readers, and everyone knows it.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 6, 2013)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I can, sure.
> 
> But the million dollar question:
> 
> What is it?



New novel I'm working on. My style changed dramatically and this is my first time working in first person. I might post it here in the section and see what people say.


----------



## Garfield (Aug 8, 2013)

horsdhaleine said:


> Seems like R.R. Martin is on many people's list. Author must be delighted.
> 
> Is Cory Doctorow considered a professional writer/author? Or is he just a popular blogger?


Cory was once invited to give a keynote speech at an ACM conference.
So one way or another, he's good. And that's what matters


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 8, 2013)

One of these days...


----------



## horsdhaleine (Aug 12, 2013)

So, I asked someone to help me with English grammar and he said that I should just try reading more. 



I can read 400+ pages of English text in one night (provided the text is very gripping. If the text is very boring, I wouldn't be able to go beyond 8-30 pages a day). For chrissake, I have my own library, which is technically my bedroom. It's just that I was never a grammar person. My academic background is languages but I'm not a grammarian. I'm more sensitive to richness of lexicon than the finer points of the correct tenses and appropriate use of comma. I'm interested in the social and political roles of languages. I'm interested in different communication styles. I'm interested in the death and birth of new words and languages. Language is not just about grammar.

When I say I need help with grammar, I mean it. I don't need to be told to read more. Oh well, I guess I asked the wrong person.


----------



## Psallo a Cappella (Aug 13, 2013)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Martin is pretty overrated and is working hard to continue the Eruocentric, unimaginative way that High Fantasy has been told since basically Tolkien. I prefer Mistborn (which is pretty damn inventive with his creatures and the like) over Martin's world and his writing style could use an editor or two to cut the bullshit out. There's entire sections of the book that could be condensed down and it seems like he's just doing it so that it feels epic. Because all epic means is long books to some people. Doesn't matter that over the course of five fucking books like two years has passed and a lot of the stuff we want to see still hasn't happened yet.
> 
> I predict an ending like Lost where everyone is upset and it's barely resolved. The man's writing more checks than he can cash.
> 
> ...



I have always been in the minority on this, but sometimes I enjoy reading fluffy nothing for the sake of it, and I don't see anything wrong with that. It's linked to mindfulness, for me; if I wanted to read no-frills, I would read the wiki. Then again, I enjoy War and Peace and the driest non-fiction. Martin is a career writer, it does not surprise me that he is winding, dragging it out, simply because he can. Maybe I just do not take it seriously - I do not like it, I do not read it. That said, the show is frustrating as a "book-first" fan. 

I'm with Boskov that he's fairly mediocre, but I admittedly only read the first one; so, if one could convince me to try it again?

In contrast to you, CTK, I love most of his characters even if they're villainous, grey, or upset other people immensely (Cersei). 

@horsd:  Hmm, if your native language isn't English, then that individual gave you terrible advice. Something a little more guided and contextual would help, rather than stuffing your brain with words and hoping it sinks in to build those connections without help. What exactly do you want to work on? Clauses, conditionals, figurative language, gerunds, punctuation, tenses . . . ? Even "grammar" leads to a whole host of topics!


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 13, 2013)

Psallo a Cappella said:


> I have always been in the minority on this, but sometimes I enjoy reading fluffy nothing for the sake of it, and I don't see anything wrong with that. It's linked to mindfulness, for me; if I wanted to read no-frills, I would read the wiki. Then again, I enjoy War and Peace and the driest non-fiction. Martin is a career writer, it does not surprise me that he is winding, dragging it out, simply because he can. Maybe I just do not take it seriously - I do not like it, I do not read it. That said, the show is frustrating as a "book-first" fan.
> 
> I'm with Boskov that he's fairly mediocre, but I admittedly only read the first one; so, if one could convince me to try it again?
> 
> ...



It's not just because of the characters being shades of gray. It's more because they're just boring and often behave stupidly. And yeah, I have a huge problem with padding your books down with useless stuff. I mean there's a way to do it so it's not as annoying, but he does it in the other way. With repetitive BS. I also get the feeling Martin doesn't really know many women from how he writes them. 

Sure, the world is well built, but I don't think the story is as well constructed as everyone else does. And I read the book before the show was on, I hated it and only tried again because of the show.


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## horsdhaleine (Aug 13, 2013)

Hmm, I feel like I need a booklet full of tense consistency exercises including conditionals. _If you guys find a website like that, kindly give me the link_. I'd be very happy. 

Or maybe, my friend is right. I need to read more English texts written by native English speakers, i.e. American and British writers. Most works I read are translated works. 

I like GoT characters too. I don't read the book though. Too costly. Imma cheapskate. How much do you guys spend on books?


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 13, 2013)

Tense consistency can be hard. One of the most common mistakes I make in my novel right now is tense stuff. It's because I am writing in present tense. Because of it I have started doing present tense in more places (like in my D&D games) to make it easier.


----------



## Psallo a Cappella (Aug 13, 2013)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> It's not just because of the characters being shades of gray. It's more because they're just boring and often behave stupidly. And yeah, I have a huge problem with padding your books down with useless stuff. I mean there's a way to do it so it's not as annoying, but he does it in the other way. With repetitive BS. I also get the feeling Martin doesn't really know many women from how he writes them.
> 
> Sure, the world is well built, but I don't think the story is as well constructed as everyone else does. And I read the book before the show was on, I hated it and only tried again because of the show.


Though their choices can be stupid, I feel they're not so inaccurate for the most part. I understand not liking padding, and you are right that there is a better way to do it. I find dry prose and dialogue in fiction extremely boring and a waste of my time - like I said, I might as well read the wiki. Sometimes, the prose may be watery, mushy, boring, but the dialogue and plot drive it along so I am not easily distracted, or it may be the other way 'round. I prefer an unpretentious flourish, but maybe I'm being picky. 



horsdhaleine said:


> Hmm, I feel like I need a booklet full of tense consistency exercises including conditionals. _If you guys find a website like that, kindly give me the link_. I'd be very happy.
> 
> Or maybe, my friend is right. I need to read more English texts written by native English speakers, i.e. American and British writers. Most works I read are translated works.
> 
> I like GoT characters too. I don't read the book though. Too costly. Imma cheapskate. How much do you guys spend on books?



I will look; I do not have one offhand. And it would definitely help to read novels written in English originally - translations can be really rough between languages, particularly ones that are culturally and linguistically far removed. I do think translated books are interesting and you'll get the gist, but I feel a lot of nuance is lost and some translations just don't work all that well.

I have the first, second, and fifth in a .pdf. I have also found classics in free, unlocked .pdfs. I have a Nook and I usually wait for sales and snap them up for a few dollars. Generally, I only buy something that I have already read, that was so great I would read it again. Or, if it's an author I enjoy enough (Nabokov, Edgar Allen Poe, Murakami, Anchee Min, etc). I also go to thrift shops and half-price bookstores, because I have found hidden gems - Goodwill was where I picked up an entire collection of Edgar Allen Poe, actually, and I've spotted other series sets which get snapped up fast. I often ask for books for gifts. I definitely have spent plenty on books from my own money, though. And I frequent the library. 



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Tense consistency can be hard. One of the most common mistakes I make in my novel right now is tense stuff. It's because I am writing in present tense. Because of it I have started doing present tense in more places (like in my D&D games) to make it easier.



Present tense has become my favorite; though, I do think it is much more difficult. Now writing in past tense requires more thought.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 13, 2013)

Psallo a Cappella said:


> Though their choices can be stupid, I feel they're not so inaccurate for the most part. I understand not liking padding, and you are right that there is a better way to do it. I find dry prose and dialogue in fiction extremely boring and a waste of my time - like I said, I might as well read the wiki. Sometimes, the prose may be watery, mushy, boring, but the dialogue and plot drive it along so I am not easily distracted, or it may be the other way 'round. I prefer an unpretentious flourish, but maybe I'm being picky.



I would have to agree. Pretentious writing is a huge turn off whenever I start reading something. I don't mind a longer book. It just has to all feel necessary and be a good read. I got the feeling with Maritn that a wiki was more appropriate. I also dislike how there isn't a main character and how he handles the death of characters. I can figure certain people won't die for a while, but even with that knowledge I feel like he kills characters more out of a desire to stand out than out of a need for the plot to be good. 

I can usually tell how good reading something is going by how fast I progress. When reading Martin I was taking days to do anything. When I read _Gone Girl _earlier this year I did it in like a day. When I read _Ten Little Aliens _it was like a day's read. And when I read _Fifty Shades_ or tried to I couldn't get a chapter in a day most of the time. 


> Present tense has become my favorite; though, I do think it is much more difficult. Now writing in past tense requires more thought.



Present tense is a newer thing for me, but it's growing on me a lot. I used to think it was very odd to do present tense because it seemed like anything happening in present tense couldn't reasonably be a story, if that makes any sense.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 14, 2013)

Need to make sure this next post starts the page


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 14, 2013)

Never you mind Doctor B.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 14, 2013)




----------



## Tyrael (Aug 14, 2013)

Thugs Notes is excellent, pretty sure it was you who originally linked it to me?


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 14, 2013)

That's 4 posts in a row, CTK.

That's 40 lashes, CTK.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 14, 2013)

Tyrael said:


> Thugs Notes is excellent, pretty sure it was you who originally linked it to me?



It was probably me. I remember being utterly amazed at how accurate it was. 



Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> That's 4 posts in a row, CTK.
> 
> That's 40 lashes, CTK.



I'll wear them proudly. 

Started to make a slave joke, decided against it.


----------



## Psallo a Cappella (Aug 14, 2013)

I don't fangirl too often okay that might be a lie, and I don't know if he runs his own Goodreads (in my experience, they do, and more likely to run that than say, a Twitter handle), but one of my favorite authors Timothy Hallinan is following my reviews and sent me a message discussing the role of Chinese (and Asian) women in historical events like the cultural revolution. Lately, my reading palate has been an Asian-sensation. 

Anyway, he recommended a few solid nonfictions for me, and I am emitting those embarrassing squeals that are reserved for leather hardcovers, cute things on Etsy, and good food. I love everything he's written and I don't know how to respond eloquently. Halp.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 14, 2013)

Psallo a Cappella said:


> I don't fangirl too often okay that might be a lie, and I don't know if he runs his own Goodreads (in my experience, they do, and more likely to run that than say, a Twitter handle), but one of my favorite authors Timothy Hallinan is following my reviews and sent me a message discussing the role of Chinese (and Asian) women in historical events like the cultural revolution. Lately, my reading palate has been an Asian-sensation.
> 
> Anyway, he recommended a few solid nonfictions for me, and I am emitting those embarrassing squeals that are reserved for leather hardcovers, cute things on Etsy, and good food. I love everything he's written and I don't know how to respond eloquently. Halp.



Dan Wells has spoken to me a few times on Twitter. The comment that got his attention was when I said he has the biggest balls in young adult writing. 

A lot of these guys run their own stuff and they're pretty responsive and cool. I've met Mary Robinette Kowal (was one of only two guys at the meeting) and someday if I am lucky I want to meet Gaiman.


----------



## Psallo a Cappella (Aug 14, 2013)

That's really cool, CTK! I can definitely see you wanting to meet Neil Gaiman.

Aside from local poets, this is the first time someone has reached out to little ol' me. I still don't know how to respond.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 14, 2013)

Psallo a Cappella said:


> That's really cool, CTK! I can definitely see you wanting to meet Neil Gaiman.
> 
> Aside from local poets, this is the first time someone has reached out to little ol' me. I still don't know how to respond.


I would say respond as normally sounding as possible, be yourself and just be thankful for their time. It's pretty hard to know exactly what to say a lot of the time.


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## horsdhaleine (Aug 24, 2013)

My sister lend me about by Neil Gaiman called Fragile Things. I read the first story. So far, so good.


----------



## horsdhaleine (Aug 28, 2013)

This is cute. Look!


----------



## αshɘs (Aug 31, 2013)

hahaha, oh god

Banner Made by the Lovely Laix


----------



## Jena (Aug 31, 2013)

αshɘs said:


> hahaha, oh god
> 
> Banner Made by the Lovely Laix



Omfg yes  I've been following this shit and I bought a copy of this yesterday

Before anyone grabs their pitchforks, might want to check  out


----------



## αshɘs (Aug 31, 2013)

aha, I see now  Thought that was serious for a moment.


----------



## Jena (Aug 31, 2013)

They're trying to make it seem like a real book, just to see what the reaction is.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 31, 2013)

It's hilarious, but I just couldn't buy it because it's not marketable.  Basically, it's a little TOO clever and pointed to believe, at least in my opinion, to anyone who's a fan of Lovecraft and aware of the paranormal-teen phase of books.


----------



## Tyrael (Aug 31, 2013)

The whole thing doesn't sit well with me.

It's a joke that doesn't deserve to be much more than an off-handed one liner. They've stretched it out to an entire book, paid fans to do the actual writing for them, and created a persona that acts as a snide attack on the public personas of a bunch of writers.

It just kinda has the feel of a circle-jerk.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 1, 2013)

I have never even heard about this thing. I am watching my way through Breaking Bad right now.


----------



## Xyloxi (Sep 1, 2013)

horsdhaleine said:


> This is cute. Look!



I thought it looked like some kind of hill.


----------



## masamune1 (Sep 1, 2013)

I thought it looked like poop.

And I still do.

Living poop. That's slowly crawling someone like a slug.


----------



## Mѳẹbius (Sep 3, 2013)

R.I.P Frederik Pohl 

_Frederik Pohl, grandmaster of science fiction, dies aged 93_


----------



## Dream Brother (Sep 3, 2013)

Never read any of his work, but I'm going to start with _Gateway_. Looks interesting.


----------



## Garfield (Sep 8, 2013)

Really liked this article. I hope some of you may too 

"...and yet...and yet!"

I can't begin to say how much I have empathy for that feeling. Just touching to read it put so eloquently.


----------



## Psallo a Cappella (Sep 11, 2013)

Brilliant - definitely captured feelings and motions of life that are sometimes extremely difficult to put into words, even for writers. It also delicately (in such Japanese fashion, it seems like) captured the difference in perspective by highlighting Japanese reactions to traumatic events such as Fukushima. In the case of national identity, they have had those pivotal, but hopeless moments before in history - Hiroshima and Nagasaki. All in all, poignant, beautiful.


----------



## αshɘs (Sep 29, 2013)

So, The Shining got a sequel?


----------



## αshɘs (Oct 2, 2013)

Tom Clancy has passed away: 

RIP. Can't say I cared a lot for his writing, but there were a couple of games associated with him which I liked.


----------



## Buskuv (Oct 17, 2013)

Nanowrimo is coming up again. 

Looks like the work trio is doing it again this year, but I'm still majorly butthurt (mostly at myself) about losing so much fucking work when my laptop went kaputz.


----------



## Yakkai (Oct 19, 2013)

Any other NFers doing Nanowrimo and want to writing-buddy up?


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## Psallo a Cappella (Nov 9, 2013)

Random updates . . .

I'm not doing so hot on NaNoWriMo. My laptop died a few weeks ago and it is a motherboard issue (likely fried to death; I do use it constantly.) I'm torn between shelling out for a new one or fixing what I have, and I would rather do the latter only because there is enough of a gap between what I have backed up and what I did not get a chance to, that I want my information. 

However, I've recently been picking up the short story / poetry contests again, so that's all right.

Working 50~ hours a week is rough.

I love you guysss. <3 Miss youuuu


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 10, 2013)

I know what it's like to lose a laptop, I just went through that with my other one, check into Walmart for deals and see what you can find black Friday


----------



## Buskuv (Nov 11, 2013)

I lost 3 in the space of year.  Random incidents, all unrelated, all pointing to my awful luck.

I feel ya.

Glad you're getting back into it, though.  I forwent NaNoWriMo mostly because I knew I didn't have as much time as I'd like to devote to it, so I've just taken the month to start writing in general again, rather than busting out the wordcount.  Work sucks.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 12, 2013)

Hey Dr. B can I see the full version of your avatar. Peach is my favorite.


----------



## Buskuv (Nov 16, 2013)

Christ, I'm not even sure I have the full picture anymore.

Maybe I do, I'll look.

---

Nothing is more discouraging, to a mind like mine, than having a friend ask you to read a rough draft of a novella he's writing and have it be far more compelling, multi-faceted and interesting than 90% of published authors.  Fuck.


----------



## Garfield (Nov 17, 2013)

Not sure how that's discouraging though...?


----------



## Buskuv (Nov 17, 2013)

As in, 'what have I been doing with my life?'


----------



## Garfield (Nov 17, 2013)

Make it encouraging instead and do something then


----------



## Buskuv (Nov 18, 2013)

I have a massive inferiority complex.

I do not think yo understand.


----------



## Psallo a Cappella (Nov 18, 2013)

Peach is my spirit animal. Love the avatar. pek


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 19, 2013)

Psallo a Cappella said:


> Peach is my spirit animal. Love the avatar. pek


Peach isn't an animal, she's the goddess of the down-smash.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Nov 19, 2013)

I found it PaC and Dr. B and then some!


----------



## Buskuv (Dec 23, 2013)

Christmas bump.

Also, totes taking those Peach pictures since the ol' Lappy died.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 24, 2013)

You're welcome, I lost my old laptop too. It was stolen along with my Kindle, iPod and beats head phones (and my writing notebook). I finally just got my Kindle back and I am actually reading right now. I ended up going with a Kindle Fire because it was just a five dollar difference between that and the Paper White. 

I'm enjoying it so far. Reading some Mistborn and the Handmaid's Tale.


----------



## Tyrael (Jan 13, 2014)

Hullo LD, wie gehts?


----------



## Buskuv (Jan 19, 2014)

NEIN MEANS NO!


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 19, 2014)

It's been a while gentlemen and possibly lady.


----------



## Tyrael (Jan 19, 2014)

8

If you don't get that reference, fo' shame on you.


----------



## Buskuv (Jan 20, 2014)

But...


----------



## Tyrael (Jan 20, 2014)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WF1L2LSP4eY[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Buskuv (Jan 20, 2014)

I am mucho behind on PC gaming.  >_>


----------



## Tyrael (Jan 20, 2014)

I'm trying to cut down on it tbh - it's a great way to kill being productive.


----------



## Buskuv (Jan 20, 2014)

I can imagine that;  I have plenty of consoles that tell me the same thing.


----------



## Buskuv (Jan 20, 2014)

Also, I was actually not the moderator of the forum until, like, yesterday, but I am now, so if you need anything, silly or otherwise, let me know.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 21, 2014)

I finally posted my first chapter. It was longer than I thought.


----------



## Buskuv (Jan 27, 2014)

So, Flash Fiction contest when?


----------



## Tyrael (Jan 27, 2014)

NOW.

You've got 15 minutes.

Theme: Cleaning.


*Spoiler*: _Cleaning_ 



It was the third time this week that it had rained. I spent Monday looking up from my computer in the University library, screen full of procrastination, to find myself looking at a grey-blue world smudged by a constant downpour. On Wednesday I went to the bank, and by the time I got there and stepped into the warm, sterile building, sheets of water were coming off of me. It was as if I had, in the time it had taken me to walk up the road, become a raincloud myself.

Thursday. It had rained during the night as well. Inevitably, this morning, I had gotten the fearful text. SORRY, WEATHER TERRIBLE TODAY, WE SHOULD MEET UP SOME OTHER TIME. I didn't bother replying. It wasn't that the rain bothered me so much, it was that it presented such a good excuse.

So I moped around for a while. I sat on my much loved couch and tried to watch Breaking Bad, but I couldn't concentrate on it. I went to bed again, but as tired as I was I found it nigh impossible to sleep during daylight.

Having given up, I got to my feet a paced around what space there was on my floor too pace. That annoyed me. I should be able to pace my room freely. I should do something about that.

There were a lot of CD cases everywhere - the redundant creatures that they were, since all of the actual CDs were in a pocket in the living room. I'd bought a lot of this in a fit of needing to be seen as different and cool - there were some Bowie CDs I'd never listened to and Pink Floyd albums I'd bought just so visitors would see them. I binned the lot and dug up an old, barely working CD player and put Sound and Vision on. It was actually pretty good.

I got rid of a lot of the wrappers and discarded food packets. They'd been consumed during long nights of brooding and loneliness as I'd sat alone and written love poems to girls that didn't exist. As I got rid of them I threw out my cheap bottle of scotch too. It just felt like I should get rid of them together. I didn't even like scotch.

Then I turned to my cabinet. It was where I'd hidden my geekier leanings - some Superman comics, some YuGiOh cards, old plastic planes I used to build. I liked the way they looked, so I set them up at the corner of my desk, rather than hiding them away. They actually looked kinda cool. I dug out an old Britney Spears single I never would have admitted I had and replaced Bowie.

The posters, covered with what I thought were obscure bands, went next. I wasn't entirely sure what I'd seen in them when I moved in, no more than a year earlier. The room looked more boring without them, but it also felt more honest.

Outside, it had stopped raining.


----------



## Buskuv (Jan 29, 2014)

Man, damnit, Ty.

Damnit.


----------



## Garfield (Jan 29, 2014)

If flash fiction _were_ really... --Flash-- fiction, 

is that why they faded away so fast?


----------



## Tyrael (Jan 29, 2014)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Man, damnit, Ty.
> 
> Damnit.



That wasn't 15mins. 

Like the piece though, very minimalist, 9.25/10.



adee said:


> If flash fiction _were_ really... --Flash-- fiction,
> 
> is that why they faded away so fast?



Generally they kinda hang around on the 1st page for months, waiting for people to follow through. So perhaps don't fade away that fast - more linger really.


----------



## Buskuv (Jan 29, 2014)

I need to advertise it more, I suppose.

Now that I'm supreme dictator for life of the LD, I can make it a bit easier with editing posts, stickies and prizes.


----------



## Stunna (Feb 3, 2014)

Could I get some help coming up with a good character name? I know I want to use the surname 'Rigby', but I can't decide on a first name.


----------



## Lucaniel (Feb 3, 2014)

jack rigby

done


----------



## Stunna (Feb 3, 2014)

:|

might as well not respond if you don't care


----------



## Lucaniel (Feb 3, 2014)

stunna wtf do you expect from such a vague prompt  you didn't give any specifics about what you want the name to represent, and 'rigby' isn't even an uncommon first name - so it's not like you're trying to come up with some cool fantasy name like 'anomander rake'


----------



## Stunna (Feb 3, 2014)

I don't want some fantasy name like Zane Swiftclaw or some crap, but I don't want something as common as Jack. Rigby is definitely a more unique name than Jack -- which has gotta be in the top ten most used. Not that Jack Rigby is a _bad_ name. It has a nice ring to it... 

btw if you must know, I got the name from "Eleanor Rigby".


----------



## Stunna (Feb 3, 2014)

Forget    it.


----------



## Psallo a Cappella (Feb 3, 2014)

*peeks at Flashfiction contest*

;__________;


----------



## Demetrius (Feb 3, 2014)

Stunna said:


> I don't want some fantasy name like Zane Swiftclaw or some crap, but I don't want something as common as Jack. Rigby is definitely a more unique name than Jack -- which has gotta be in the top ten most used. Not that Jack Rigby is a _bad_ name. It has a nice ring to it...
> 
> btw if you must know, I got the name from "Eleanor Rigby".


try looking at baby names, or just names in 

rigby's always got this nice ring to it and flows quite well with practically any name

i'd recommend arden, elliot (obviously these two from the list at hand), calvin, quentin, roman, etc

curious to know what you're working on


----------



## Stunna (Feb 3, 2014)

Thanks for the recommendations.

I'd like to start a project -- a series of various sci-fi short stories, all connected by a single constant in the form the character of Rigby, who appears in some shape or form in each story -- sometimes as the hero, sometimes an impartial observer, an aid, or maybe an antagonist.


----------



## Krory (Feb 3, 2014)

Stunna said:


> Thanks for the recommendations.
> 
> I'd like to start a project -- a series of various sci-fi short stories, all connected by a single constant in the form the character of Rigby, who appears in some shape or form in each story -- sometimes as the hero, sometimes an impartial observer, an aid, or maybe an antagonist.



I can dig it.

Elliot Rigby sounds pretty cool but not sure if it's too plain and it might sound good because it's also quite close to your inspiration for using the name (Eleanor Rigby). This kinda thing could go either way for you (as in you might want to use it BECAUSE it's close, or the similarity might be a turn-off).

Out of the couple examples Trinity posted, I think Roman Rigby has a nice sound to it.


----------



## Tyrael (Feb 5, 2014)

Just a heads up to all the UK dwellers:


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Feb 7, 2014)

Stunna said:


> I don't want some fantasy name like Zane Swiftclaw or some crap, but I don't want something as common as Jack. Rigby is definitely a more unique name than Jack -- which has gotta be in the top ten most used. Not that Jack Rigby is a _bad_ name. It has a nice ring to it...
> 
> btw if you must know, I got the name from "Eleanor Rigby".



I started singing "Eleanor Rigby" when I read the name.  Then I thought of the badger from _Regular Show_.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Feb 7, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> I started singing "Eleanor Rigby" when I read the name.  Then I thought of the badger from _Regular Show_.



Rigby is  raccoon.


----------



## Buskuv (Feb 7, 2014)

Have you... ever seen a badger?


----------



## Jena (Feb 7, 2014)

I saw this earlier, and it's such a cute idea that I'm _so_ stealing it and telling people I came up with it.




> TBR BOOK JAR!!
> 
> Recently my TBR pile has been growing (especially with my recent hauls) and I figured this would be the perfect way to get started on some those titles.
> 
> ...


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Feb 7, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Rigby is  raccoon.



No one is perfect.



Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Have you... ever seen a badger?



... Yes.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Feb 7, 2014)

Jena said:


> I saw this earlier, and it's such a cute idea that I'm _so_ stealing it and telling people I came up with it.



I actually like the idea a lot. I have been buying so many books for my Kindle in the last few weeks and I have only managed to read about two of these books. So I kind of need some way to pick what book I am going to read next. The only thing is that I probably wouldn't be able to make myself abide by it. I am really bad about getting bored with books and just not finishing them. If a book isn't entertaining me or teaching me it probably isn't all that worth my time outside of special cases.


----------



## Psallo a Cappella (Feb 9, 2014)

Jena said:


> I saw this earlier, and it's such a cute idea that I'm _so_ stealing it and telling people I came up with it.



This is a great idea (and an excuse to find a nice jar to decorate or something). Good find, thankyouuuu pek


----------



## αshɘs (Feb 12, 2014)

....haha-ha?




also I really need to get on to finishing Wind-Up Bird...


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Feb 13, 2014)

This comment got me.

"Christie Sims writes what she knows."


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Feb 15, 2014)

Happy Valentine's Day I guess.


----------



## Tyrael (Feb 21, 2014)

Right if anyone's free right now, I'm gonna do a flash fic in 15 mins, and you're welcome to to do an FF off against me.

Theme: Letters.

Took me 20 mins, dammit:


*Spoiler*: __ 




*Spoiler*: __ 



When I write, _I write_. It's not something that just happens,When I sit in front of a blank sheet of paper, my first instinct is to run the other way.

I feel that writing is a lost art - it's a specific thing, a relationship between your mind, pen and a piece of paper. That this world has decided it would rather rattle out words by punching keys makes me endlessly sad. People often remark that this is a surprising attitude for one so young, but I don't believe I've ever been young, no matter what my body claims.

I have a nemesis. I met him in Spain two years ago. It had been a pretty miserable trip altogether, waking up everyday so far away from my native England, the heat seeping under my skin and the noise from the street creeping through the walls at all time. I signed up to teach English, to spread my love of language, but there was something in revisiting the nuts-and-bolts of the language that thoroughly robbed it of it's charm. I lasted half of my contract before running out on it.

One of my fellow teachers, a younger man than I, was my first friend their, and the first straw on the back of the proverbial camel. He was a fair haired and fair skinned man, eternally resistant to the sun's powers. We used to talk long of our aspirations and our love of the great language. His ideas ran entirely counter to mine.

"It's like," he would often begin, "the most natural thing in the world. It's where I go to shut down. It's like I close my eyes and sleep, and when I awaken I find what I have written in front of me, as if my conscious mind had nothing to do with it." I envied and hated this of him - and I wondered that, maybe, this made more true a writer than I.

I have long been in the habit of keeping penpals - it is, I always upheld, the greatest way to revel in cultural fluidity. In reading the styles and language conventions that people in other parts of the world I am exposed to something new and different.

Marcus is in Australia now, he is one of my penpals. It is his correspondence, above all, I know that I cannot break. Every month he forces me to crowbar open my email account, to read the spiny black letters on the screen. Every month I tailor a letter to him, exemplifying in every way the beauty of the craft, and yet he continues to...blaspheme. He continues to force  language outside its natural medium.

He is a genius, yet he is also he is heretic and I will continue to write to him, until he changes his ways or I can somehow understand the way he can retain his genius in this medium of flashing lights and celebrity gossip.


----------



## Buskuv (Mar 17, 2014)

We're having a MD listening party in a few minutes.

DO IT!


----------



## Garfield (Mar 26, 2014)

adee said:


> I'm sorry, but I kinda went through my piece multiple times before posting and even now after reading your post. I can't see where I made grammatical error, I'd please like you to go in more detail if you could. Thanks
> 
> I do agree with you and Stelios that this was a little hard to understand. Almost everything in my setting is a metaphor, so it would take more investment of time to appreciate than is probably validated by this contest.



Continuing conversation here, for great justice.


----------



## Tyrael (Mar 26, 2014)

I feel like we should only rate the first of tari's entrants really - I don't know if it's specific, but I'm pretty sure the assumption is 1 entry per writer?


----------



## Krory (Mar 26, 2014)

For the purposes of contest, I agree, I just think that's what adee had said - that things would be just put together. But I think tari entered so many to get opinions and such on his (he was warned by adee that this could lower his score, seemed like he was just trying to work, y'know?). So out of respect for that, I think I'll rate and review them all for him personally, but in terms of counting I agree only the first (or if we want to be more lenient have him pick which one he would like counted, providing he gets to them before we rate everything).

Thoughts?


----------



## Tyrael (Mar 26, 2014)

Well it'd be a shame for him to write so much and get no feedback - but I don't think that should necessarily happen as part of the rating. So people rating are free to ignore his next two pieces, but by no means does that stop folks giving him feedback on his other two pieces if they want to.

I'm happy to give him feedback about both other pieces, but as an extra thing really - I feel like really this is the best option.

Edit:



> You can only post *one *entry per theme, the highest rated entry will choose the next theme.



It's in the rules in the thread actually.


----------



## Krory (Mar 26, 2014)

Tyrael said:


> I'm happy to give him feedback about both other pieces, but as an extra thing really - I feel like really this is the best option.



Yeah, this is what I was getting out. I'll still give him feedback and such on it, but they shouldn't be counted in his entry.




> It's in the rules in the thread actually.



I probably should have thought of that.


----------



## Garfield (Mar 26, 2014)

> Reading the rules

Only mods do that and that too because they have to write it.

wtf Ty, I thought you were my brother from anarchist mother


----------



## Garfield (Mar 26, 2014)

Doc still seems hesitant to post here.

He's still unsure how to interpret sudden rise in activity. His mind is a quagmire.


----------



## Krory (Mar 26, 2014)

Posting here is like prison sex. Just relax and let it happen.


----------



## Garfield (Mar 26, 2014)

We're all invading Doc's butt hole then.










inb4 I'm banned


----------



## Stelios (Mar 26, 2014)

Oh nice we can go wild here


----------



## Buskuv (Mar 26, 2014)

Rules are for nerds.


----------



## Krory (Mar 26, 2014)

Your _face_ is for nerds.


----------



## lokoxDZz (Mar 26, 2014)

Must read more and more in english and study more to get better with a fine language for next flasfic.


What the problem with nerds?


----------



## Firaea (Mar 26, 2014)

Banhammer said:


> Eh, with five hundred words to work with, I'll admit to cutting a lot of the FP view in favor of what I felt like telling instead
> 
> I take the luxury of typing splurges  for granted.
> I had a harder time understanding the paragraphing issue though,



I've to agree. Working with 500 words make it very difficult to cover both breadth and depth, but I guess that's the challenge here. 

Also, considering that two people have had an issue with my issue with paragraphing, maybe it's a personal thing but I kind of like seeing spaces between paragraphs and dialogues. It makes the whole thing look less chunky and more palatable. Am I the only one who has that quirk? 



adee said:


> 10         char



It does seem as if we were taught differently when it comes to the usage of commas. 

I was taught that if you wanted to connect two phrases which work as proper sentences by themselves, you should use semi-colons instead of commas. 



tGre teh Disleksik said:


> Cheers for the critique!
> 
> I reread my piece and was confused with your issue on paragraphing. Can you elaborate? I'm not going to debate punctuation only because of my usage of colloquialisms and I understand that it might be a difficult read for some.
> 
> ...



Regarding the paragraphing issue, you could refer to my reply to Banhammer.

Perhaps it's the colloquialism that didn't quite suck me in. The context and all isn't very familiar to me, so it might just be a problem with personal opinion. Conversations are a major weakness of mine, both because I have severe difficulty writing them and appreciating them. 



On a side note, I thought I should disclaim that for all the lower ratings that I gave: I actually feel uncomfortable with them because well... I don't feel like the right person to actually be giving them.


----------



## Buskuv (Mar 26, 2014)

Comma splices.

Those are what Adee is doing.

Comma splices are really hard to pinpoint, I hate dealing with them.

Comma splices are really hard to pinpoint; I hate dealing with them.

Comma splices are really hard to pinpoint, and I hate dealing with them.


----------



## Krory (Mar 26, 2014)

Comma splices are jerks.


----------



## Demetrius (Mar 26, 2014)

> Am I the only one who has that quirk?


nope

i honestly don't want to read a blob of text that morphs into something overwhelming that i can't even concentrate on depending if the dialogue is long winded etc etc
oh, and especially those contemporary novels that don't even paragraph (with it being something like, "lorem  ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit." "quisque sed nibh non ipsum convallis convallis?" "lorem." "nec mi mattis." (description for character's action goes here, etc etc) on and on--just a complicated continuum)

paragraphs are rad, spacious and inviting

but really it depends on the style the author himself is using and if it's suitable or for stylistic purposes

though yeah, it's a big quirk of mine in all honesty


----------



## Krory (Mar 27, 2014)

Trinity said:


> paragraphs are rad, spacious and inviting



I like this explanation.

But anyone, if I'm to understand - in the reference of Banhammer's story - do you mean like this, Firaea:


*Spoiler*: __ 





> ?Heaven? sung a little mouse. ?I?m in Heaven.? He thought not of his trembling voice, or his whiskers, that felt so cold they could just snap from his nose.
> ?And my heart beats so that I can hardly -squeak!?
> Loud bellows trembled around his head, hard as lightning, frightening him so deeply that it probably took him over a minute to realize he was not yet dead.
> When he came to, he did it fighting an urge to relieve himself, right there on the spot, and scurried quickly beneath some benches.
> ?Thankyou!? Mouse gasped ?thankyoulord!?





> ?Heaven? sung a little mouse. ?I?m in Heaven.? He thought not of his trembling voice, or his whiskers, that felt so cold they could just snap from his nose.
> 
> ?And my heart beats so that I can hardly -squeak!?
> 
> ...






If so, a bit different from what Svet is talking about I think but I agree with both of you (if my understanding is correct). I guess you could call it a "quirk."  With Banhammer's, I guess with the forum format, we can't indent so having a space between paragraphs just makes it much easier to read.

Am I on the right path here?

In regards to your rating on my entry, Firaea, I appreciate the comments! Not much to reply to unfortunately but hell, maybe that's a good thing for me for a change instead of having to feebly explain things.


----------



## Firaea (Mar 27, 2014)

krory said:


> I like this explanation.
> 
> But anyone, if I'm to understand - in the reference of Banhammer's story - do you mean like this, Firaea:
> 
> ...



Yeah, that's exactly what I mean.


----------



## Krory (Mar 27, 2014)

ITT: I'm not as dumb as I think I am. :33


----------



## Demetrius (Mar 30, 2014)

did this just die all of a sudden


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2014)

It certainly seems that way, unfortunately.


----------



## Demetrius (Mar 30, 2014)

wake up, thread


----------



## Krory (Mar 30, 2014)

I had a weird dream where people posted in this thread.


----------



## Garfield (Mar 30, 2014)

I kinda hate to say I told you so, but I told you so. Too many entries is discouraging from a ratings standpoint and kills the overall mood.


----------



## Stelios (Mar 30, 2014)

> Damn, trust you to break the fourth wall. Why'd you write that last sentence I'll never understand And this was a much better try than previous ones, but that last line was just so annoying man. Don't let breaking the 4th become your schtick. It's only funny in the right setting. This was not it. But still, an improvement. However your narration seems a little too conversational.



Hey thanks but what breaking the fourth wall means? You mean to stay isolated and not to try communicate with the reader that much?

What do you mean when you say conversational and how can I avoid that?


----------



## Buskuv (Mar 30, 2014)

MD LISTENING PARTY

RIGHT 

NOW


----------



## Mist Puppet (Mar 30, 2014)

i'll add my ratings in a bit

working on something else that has the majority of my attention


----------



## Firaea (Mar 31, 2014)

adee said:


> *Spoiler*: _Firaea_
> 
> 
> 
> I still haven't understood the grand picture of this story. It's pretty and colourful and you've spent a lot of energy in taking us through a lot of images. But I don't see the images leading somewhere concrete.



Thanks for the comments! 

Valid criticisms, too, though I don't think I'd explain my piece. Let it speak whatever it speaks.


----------



## Buskuv (Mar 31, 2014)

Pool's closed.  

Do your best with the ratings; I know there's a huge amount of entries.


----------



## Garfield (Mar 31, 2014)

Stelios said:


> Hey thanks but what breaking the fourth wall means? You mean to stay isolated and not to try communicate with the reader that much?
> 
> What do you mean when you say conversational and how can I avoid that?


Basically, talking directly to the reader in one way or another. 

How to avoid being conversational is really something I can't explain, but try rereading your piece and if it sounds as if you're talking to someone about something, then you need to change it. 

Other than that I didn't really have much problems with your piece this time. Good job!


----------



## Nordstrom (Mar 31, 2014)

Submitted one just right on the deadline. Thanks Mahou Cola!


----------



## Krory (Mar 31, 2014)

I probably won't be doing any ratings and anyone else still to do ratings can feel free to just skip mine, no longer interested.

Many apologies to anyone who wasted their time on rating mine already, I'll find some way to make it up to you.


----------



## Garfield (Mar 31, 2014)

Everyone just loves going haywire on 1st don't they xD


----------



## Krory (Apr 1, 2014)

_You ruined my joke._


----------



## Krory (Apr 2, 2014)

Thanks, Mist! Really quite pleased with this and good to see everyone agrees that it's a huge improvement for me. I only hope I can keep up this caliber - or keep improving.


----------



## Garfield (Apr 2, 2014)

My review of you was actually an early April fools joke Krory, my actual review is this:

Your writing sucks more than a black hole in donkey's balls. If you didn't type fiction, the world would be better off by 9000 orders of magnitude. The only thing in this universe, worse than what you wrote is what you're writing now.

Just sayin'


----------



## Krory (Apr 2, 2014)

adee said:


> My review of you was actually an early April fools joke Krory, my actual review is this:
> 
> Your writing sucks more than a black hole in donkey's balls. If you didn't type fiction, the world would be better off by 9000 orders of magnitude. The only thing in this universe, worse than what you wrote is what you're writing now.
> 
> Just sayin'



This would be funny if it wasn't what I told myself every minute of my life.


----------



## Garfield (Apr 2, 2014)

See, that's where you're wrong. Why would you do that? What good will come of it? It's such a useless thing to do.












I mean, every minute? You should be saying that every second, nay micro second, I mean come on, wtf


----------



## Krory (Apr 2, 2014)

adee said:


> See, that's where you're wrong. Why would you do that? What good will come of it? It's such a useless thing to do.
> 
> I mean, every minute? You should be saying that every second, nay micro second, I mean come on, wtf



I spend too much crying.


----------



## Garfield (Apr 2, 2014)

Now that is an excellent investment I say.

> spend time crying
> don't get shit done
> get more reasons to cry
> cry more

In economics, that is what we call a self sustaining system. A gift that keeps on giving. Perpetual motion machines have been modeled after such wonderful machinations.


----------



## Krory (Apr 2, 2014)

See, I do some things right after all.


----------



## Garfield (Apr 2, 2014)

Fuck, this is not where I intended the conversation to head.

And I would have succeeded too, if it hadn't been for you meddling kid!


----------



## Firaea (Apr 2, 2014)

Thank you for the rating, MP. :33


----------



## Buskuv (Apr 2, 2014)

I'm so proud of you guys.

You grow up so fast.


----------



## Garfield (Apr 2, 2014)

Q: Should I work on making my metaphors a little more accessible? If so, is the better way making the metaphor more obvious or is it dropping more hints through the story?


----------



## Buskuv (Apr 2, 2014)

Depends.

Metaphors should be used as an effective way of getting across... _something_.  A lot of modern literature has taken it to heard that a metaphor (or passage, or prose in general) needs to be convoluted or esoteric in order to be effective, when really its more of the inclusive club pandering. It has to make sense and be a useful tool for conveying withing saying.

If you're loaded with metaphors but not going quite allegory, it also comes off a little tiresome.


----------



## Krory (Apr 2, 2014)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I'm so proud of you guys.
> 
> You grow up so fast.



>Implying I grew up at all


----------



## Krory (Apr 2, 2014)

How many ratings do we have in by now? Four or so? I'll try to finish mine by the end of the night, at least get the numbers in. I'm really bad at this, so sorry.


----------



## Garfield (Apr 2, 2014)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Depends.
> 
> Metaphors should be used as an effective way of getting across... _something_.  A lot of modern literature has taken it to heard that a metaphor (or passage, or prose in general) needs to be convoluted or esoteric in order to be effective, when really its more of the inclusive club pandering. It has to make sense and be a useful tool for conveying withing saying.
> 
> If you're loaded with metaphors but not going quite allegory, it also comes off a little tiresome.


So for instance, could you please comment specifically according to my piece?


----------



## Buskuv (Apr 2, 2014)

Alright, hang on.

I have this hook somewhere in the back of my mind that I plan to rate everyone's piece, because I've been slack as fuck on this whole project, but life gets away from you.  Let me re-read it and see if I have any slack-jawed feedback for you.

Krory, do what you can.  Shit happens.

I'll probably send a PM to everyone that posted an entry in thread, hoping to snag some people to either feel bad and rate people instead of just post, or realize they forgot entirely and wrangle them back into this thread.


----------



## Buskuv (Apr 2, 2014)

Alright, maybe I'm just sleepy.

I'm not quite grasping it a metaphor in there.  I can see intentional stylistics and prose, and it's good, but esoteric is typically a no-no for metaphors, mostly because they become ultimately useless.  

Let's reel it back here; typically when you get to learn about metaphors in high school and stuff (America-centric here), you deal with pretty basic ideas, things relate-able to just about anyone--like a trash strewn, overgrown lawn as a metaphor for a dying relationship.  Simple things.  The more complex you get, the more context becomes necessary for the average reader--and making things esoteric makes it that much more muddy.

I may not be giving your the feedback you want, but I'm probably not in the right state of mind right now, so I'll just wax pedantic for you instead.


----------



## Tyrael (Apr 3, 2014)

Will get round to my ratings ASAP, not had a great amount of time lately.

How you execute your metaphors depends on both the type of audience and type of story your going for - it is a complex question. There are different types of metaphors too, so it really depends.

I haven't read your latest FF adee, but the way you use metaphors in your FFs isn't something you should worry about - you write things which require readers to engage and rewards readers engagement, and you don't make the dots too hard to connect. Your dialogue piece, for example, required me to wiki for quite a few phrases, but each of them made sense in the context and forced me to think about the ideas you were putting forward. This is exactly how metaphors can work I reckon.


----------



## Garfield (Apr 5, 2014)

Thanks for your advice, guys, gonna work a little more on my next pieces.

Speaking of which, when can we end this one?


----------



## Stunna (Apr 5, 2014)

Shame I missed this one.

I'll try to partake in the next.


----------



## Krory (Apr 6, 2014)

Adee, can you hook me up with a link to the Google Form? For whatever reason, I can't find it.


----------



## Garfield (Apr 6, 2014)

We're not doing the google form anymore, Krory :33


----------



## Krory (Apr 6, 2014)

Oh okay, thought we still were with the forum thread change.

Cool, cool. Gonna try to at least get my numbers in, maybe we can reach a respectable amount to continue.

Has anyone tried reaching out to the other participants to rate yet?


----------



## Krory (Apr 7, 2014)

@Fira - Yeah, technically you're right - I mostly still responded in there because I was essentially responding with my feedback which was going to be posted in that thread anyway.

But yes, I thought otherwise discussion was meant to go here.


----------



## Tyrael (Apr 7, 2014)

Phew, that took a while.

Anyone else planning on rating soon?


----------



## Krory (Apr 7, 2014)

I'm a little confused by my numerical rating, but thanks for the feedback.

Funnily enough, I would say that half the people that have read the piece did not understand the metaphor. 

I've had people think it was just literal, someone being driven someplace. TJ thought it had to do with a cult.


----------



## Tyrael (Apr 7, 2014)

Solid piece, solid 6.

But yeah, it is one of the good/daft things about getting such a diverse range of opinions on the FFs - people are often gonna outright contradict each other.


----------



## Krory (Apr 7, 2014)

Okay, solid 6, that makes more sense. I was confused because you seemed more heavily critical of other work that rated around a 6 (example: Sleipnyr, Fedster, and Link which you leave/end on more negative notes yet mine ends with "solid effort.")

Not saying I want a higher score but it feels like in comparison to what you told them, you're holding back on what I can improve upon. Toning down the driver's speech a bit and an obvious ending doesn't seem as critical as telling someone they have a messy prose, or someone is "telling, not showing" to me. Even someone higher-scoring than tari, you had more depth to what was missing about his.

Unless it was just not interesting to you, which is cool.

*I just want to be abused.*


----------



## Garfield (Apr 7, 2014)

Your feedback was awesome, Ty. I think I kinda let my own thoughts running wild get the better of me too many times. The more I think about my piece, the worse it seems to get. I had thought I'd be able to curb it with more editing this time.

The problem is, I think that because I thought a lot about my story, the whole scene was very clear and obvious in my head. It kinda blinded me to the fact that I have to make it clear and obvious to _others_ in just 500 words.

The only out is that I should probably simplify my piece more.

Either that or I'll start making threads with adee's short stories from now


----------



## Stelios (Apr 7, 2014)

To be honest  I think that my command of the language is not sufficient to pull off a proper fanfic. I ve done in the past some poetry and prose text  if you are up for reading it. I still think I did better in poetry :/

keyword: think


----------



## Garfield (Apr 7, 2014)

Just expanding on what Tyrael said about using numbers in your piece, @Stelios: when you use numbers consecutively, you should write one of them in numerals and the other in words. Or if the number is large, you should write in numerals.

eg:
He saw a string of twenty 20 Dollar bills hung across the window

In 1989, the second event took place.


----------



## Tyrael (Apr 7, 2014)

krory said:


> Okay, solid 6, that makes more sense. I was confused because you seemed more heavily critical of other work that rated around a 6 (example: Sleipnyr, Fedster, and Link which you leave/end on more negative notes yet mine ends with "solid effort.")
> 
> Not saying I want a higher score but it feels like in comparison to what you told them, you're holding back on what I can improve upon. Toning down the driver's speech a bit and an obvious ending doesn't seem as critical as telling someone they have a messy prose, or someone is "telling, not showing" to me. Even someone higher-scoring than tari, you had more depth to what was missing about his.
> 
> ...



Well, when I was referring to the taxi driver's dialogue, it all felt a bit arbitrary - what he says never amounts to much nor does it relate any coherently interesting way to the ideas of the piece.

The characterisation of the main character isn't really all that interesting, and in lieu of any space to drop anymore context in you still haven't really developed the ability to create a narrative voice that communicates character. 

Really, my initial critique was fairly brief because your piece isn't particularly flawed, but also doesn't really have anything great about it either. Stylistically it's solid enough, the idea is good without being great, you create discernible characters without making them that interesting or memorable and the thematic ideas are thin whilst working well with the plot and premise. 

It's a marked improvement on your last entry, so I'd take the positives and move on really.



adee said:


> Your feedback was awesome, Ty. I think I kinda let my own thoughts running wild get the better of me too many times. The more I think about my piece, the worse it seems to get. I had thought I'd be able to curb it with more editing this time.
> 
> The problem is, I think that because I thought a lot about my story, the whole scene was very clear and obvious in my head. It kinda blinded me to the fact that I have to make it clear and obvious to _others_ in just 500 words.
> 
> ...



I know the feeling - it's easy to forget readers don't know everything you know about the writing, and miss out certain things.

I'm of the opinion that in a piece as short as these that its useful of have a unifying idea that brings everything close together. Maybe it's a central metaphor or an important image which is emphasised in the piece.

Honestly wouldn't worry about it that much - your past couple of pieces really did work, and I feel like this piece almost worked.


----------



## Stelios (Apr 7, 2014)

adee said:


> Just expanding on what Tyrael said about using numbers in your piece, @Stelios: when you use numbers consecutively, you should write one of them in numerals and the other in words. Or if the number is large, you should write in numerals.
> 
> eg:
> He saw a string of twenty 20 Dollar bills hung across the window
> ...



That's a useful tip thank you both. Now that you mention I did wonder for a bit if I should write with letters or numbers


----------



## Krory (Apr 7, 2014)

Tyrael said:


> Well, when I was referring to the taxi driver's dialogue, it all felt a bit arbitrary - what he says never amounts to much nor does it relate any coherently interesting way to the ideas of the piece.
> 
> The characterisation of the main character isn't really all that interesting, and in lieu of any space to drop anymore context in you still haven't really developed the ability to create a narrative voice that communicates character.
> 
> ...



Okay, _this_ is what I was looking for, thank you!

Unfortunately the dialogue aspect relates again to all these internal ideas I have that never get expressed well. In my mind the concept was basically, like a cab driver, just talks about... well, nothing, but it also had the secondary purpose of trying to be something laid-back and casual, "shoot the shit" so to speak to ease his passenger into his realization (not necessarily just THIS individual passenger - just in general). But again, a lot of what I think doesn't get put down.

The narrator was bland by design, trying to do the whole "avatar/blank canvas" thing but it clearly did not work as I intended it.

Thank you, but if I just "took the positives and moved on," then there's really not much for me to know to improve on, you know? Positives are nice but unless I understand what I did wrong, and how to improve it, this could very well be my pinnacle. I mean, overall it could be my pinnacle, but yeah...

But thank you for following up, this is much better, much more helpful.


----------



## Firaea (Apr 7, 2014)

Tyrael said:


> *Spoiler*: _Firaea_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for the feedback! About the conclusion, you caught me there. I struggled for quite a while deciding how to end it before chose to close it on that note. 



adee said:


> What I feel is that a lot of us aren't native English folk, so this is not an objective criterion fit for comparing parties who are good at English vs not that good at English. Depth of thought is a much better criterion in that sense. I'm not saying execution should not be a factor, but it shouldn't be so harshly dealt with considering a lot of us aren't even gunning for accuracy there.
> 
> Also, as long as the idea is new to you, whether or not it's a clich? shouldn't make a difference, right?
> 
> I hope I'm not offending anyone by arguing btw, I love debating :3



I understand where you're coming from, but when you compose in the English language, it's inevitable that you need to be able to command the English language since it's the medium through which you're conveying your ideas - or the 'depth of thought' in question. Without good execution, no matter how extensive the 'depth of thought' is, it fails to be conveyed to a reader and the piece therefore doesn't succeed in what it sets out to do. After all, ideas are just ideas. The only way a reader can distill those ideas and judge them is when those ideas are properly communicated to them.

Although it's regrettably true that those who aren't native English-speakers are indeed disadvantaged, it's kind of an inevitable evil IMO. If, for example, I attempt to write a piece in a foreign language, I can't possibly expect them to enjoy what I'm trying to say if I'm unable to communicate it to them properly.

tl;dr I'm kind of a grammar nazi. 

In general, when we write a piece of fiction, poetry or the like, we tend to have an audience in mind. For myself, I guess there's sort of a phantom 'audience' since I don't generally share what I write with others, but god knows how many ideas I've ended up trashing because they ended up feeling cliched or because I failed to execute them well. Hell, I end up hating 99% of what I write, so much so that I rarely even write anymore.


----------



## Banhammer (Apr 7, 2014)

ooh, we're discussing the ratings?

Well, I liked that people seemed to respond well to creativity.

If I get the time (unlikely) I will try to invest in a few reviews


----------



## Krory (Apr 7, 2014)

Just throwing in a quick two cents - I'm not sure anyone really judged very "harshly" based solely on the language accept. In my case, there were many other factors as to why I didn't enjoy some works. I don't think it should be a huge thing necessarily, but it does kind of matter. And really, if it's _so_ bad that it makes the work unintelligible at points, how can we _not_ let that affect our opinion?

Not accusing anyone of this in this particular moment, none of it was like that, but what if?

I always felt grammar was an important part of writing, even if I'm awful at it myself (which is why I'd like people to tell me when I fuck it up so I know how to _fix_ it), but it feels sort of wrong to not penalize someone when they don't even use periods or use hyphens incorrectly.


----------



## Banhammer (Apr 8, 2014)

krory said:


> Just throwing in a quick two cents - I'm not sure anyone really judged very "harshly" based solely on the language accept.



*aspect



> In my case, there were many other factors as to why I didn't enjoy some works. I don't think it should be a huge thing


Comma


> necessarily, but it does kind of matter. And really, if it's _so_ bad that it makes the work unintelligible at points, how can we _not_ let that affect our opinion?
> 
> Not accusing anyone


"I am" before "not" 





> of this in this particular moment, none


"since" before "none" 





> of it was like that, but


optional comma


> what if?
> 
> I always felt


that


> grammar was an important part of writing, even if


"when", instead of "if" 





> I'm awful at it myself (which is why I'd


No "would" for continuing or unconditioned actions  





> like people to tell me when I fuck it up


comma


> so


that


> I know how to _fix_ it),


Causality break. When people tell you that you cocked up grammar, it does not necessarily imply an explanation on the "how" 





> but it


 incorrect expression of a contradicting statement. Missing a "still" in order to maintain a countinued train of thought 





> feels sort of wrong to not


"not to" instead of "to not" 





> penalize someone when they don't even use periods


Without a comma, this sentence means you feel it's wrong not to penalize someone when they don't use hyphens incorrectly 





> or use hyphens incorrectly.






lol, just trolling tho


----------



## Krory (Apr 8, 2014)

I'd give my post a 2/10 based on grammar alone.

Substance brings it down to a 1/10.


----------



## Buskuv (Apr 8, 2014)

You have to learn all of the rules in order to break them correctly.

I'm gonna leave when we close up shop to you guys.  If you feel you have enough ratings, or that we'll probably not get anymore, you guys adee can start tallying them totals up and I'll make the next thread when you've got your winrar.


----------



## Demetrius (Apr 8, 2014)

and if it's _intentional_ for the writer to leave out commas,  become extremely inconsistent with capitalizing  'i', lazy, or far too excessive (to give a few examples) for the specific narrative or character you're writing?
all hypothetical

want to see what is thought of this


----------



## Krory (Apr 8, 2014)

krory - 7, 9, 8, 9 ,8, 6 = 7.8
Jaded Heart - 7, 9, 7, 7, 7, 7, 9 = 7.5
tGre - 5, 9, 4, 9, 8, 6, 5.5 = 6.6
Lucky - 8, 9, 8, 8, 7.5, 6, 9, 6.5 = 7.75
tari - 5, 5, 7, 7, 7, 7 = 6.3
Luey - 5, 4, 7, 5, 4, 3.5 = 4.75
Khris - 3, 5, 4, 3 = 3.75
Fedster - 9, 7, 7, 7, 6, 6 = 7
Stelios - 5, 6.5, 5, 5, 4 = 5.1
IdioticGamer - 5, 6, 7.5, 7, 7, 7.5 = 6.6 (6.7)
Firaea - 8, 7, 9, 8, 8 = 8.2
Oceania - 5, 2, 5, 4, 3, 2 = 3.5
MonkeyDNaruto - 4, 5, 8, 7, 6, 6.5 = 6 (6.1)
LokoxDZz - 3, 2, 6, 4, 3, 3 = 3.5
adee - 3, 6, 8, 8, 7.5 = 6.5
Leeory Jenkins - 10, 8, 5.5, 6, 9, 5 = 7.25
Linkofone - 5, 5, 7, 6, 6, 6 = 5.8
Tyrael - 5, 7, 9.5, 9, 9 = 7.9
Mist Puppet- 7, 9.5, 9, 7 = 8.12
Banhammer - 5, 8, 9, 7, 7.5 = 7.3
Pyro - 7, 7.5, 7, 7, 5 = 6.7
Selina Kyle - 5, 6, 8, 6, 4 = 5.8
Sleipnyr - 5, 5, 5, 6 = 5.25

---------

So if my numbers are correct (feel free to dispute) our top three are...

*Firaea (8.2 average)
Mist Puppet (8.1 average)
Tyrael (7.9 average)*

Surprise, surprise. 

Bringing up the top 5 is...

*krory (7.8 average)
lucky (7.75 average)*

Damn. I was so close. All downhill from here.


----------



## Krory (Apr 8, 2014)

Trinity said:


> and if it's _intentional_ for the writer to leave out commas,  become extremely inconsistent with capitalizing  'i', lazy, or far too excessive (to give a few examples) for the specific narrative or character you're writing?
> all hypothetical
> 
> want to see what is thought of this



Would depend on the reason and if the reason is made apparent. If the writer just doesn't _feel_ like doing that stuff, then really, that's on them. If there's some artistic or stylistic reason behind it I can get it, such as if it's been noted that the narration is some type of journal, I could probably let it go - especially if it's used as a means to show someone trying to write something in a hurry, or sick, weak, dying, etc.


----------



## Krory (Apr 8, 2014)

That's if we're ending this - most of us have 5 to 6 ratings each, some only 4.

Thoughts?


----------



## Krory (Apr 8, 2014)

I'm thinking I did something wrong because Lucky wound up with 8 and Jaded with 7. I mean, naturally they'd end up with more than TJ, adee, and I since neither of them rated but... something seems off.


----------



## Buskuv (Apr 8, 2014)

Trinity said:


> and if it's _intentional_ for the writer to leave out commas,  become extremely inconsistent with capitalizing  'i', lazy, or far too excessive (to give a few examples) for the specific narrative or character you're writing?
> all hypothetical
> 
> want to see what is thought of this



There's entire novels written without any punctuation, or without the letter E.

I mean, you can do _anything_ you want to do with your writing, because there's nothing stopping you from writing your entire novel in pig latin or backwards, but nobody's going to read it.

Honestly, though, it's all art-house bile if there's no point to it.


----------



## Krory (Apr 8, 2014)

I would probably try to read something in pig latin. I'm a masochist like that.

Who am I kidding, I don't read anymore.


----------



## Buskuv (Apr 8, 2014)

Reading is for nerds.


----------



## Krory (Apr 8, 2014)

And squares.


----------



## Firaea (Apr 8, 2014)

krory said:


> krory - 7, 9, 8, 9 ,8, 6 = 7.8
> Jaded Heart - 7, 9, 7, 7, 7, 7, 9 = 7.5
> tGre - 5, 9, 4, 9, 8, 6, 5.5 = 6.6
> Lucky - 8, 9, 8, 8, 7.5, 6, 9, 6.5 = 7.75
> ...



Firaea - 8, 7, 9, 8, 8 = 8.2

This should average out to 8.0, not 8.2, unless I'm mistaking the way it's calculated. There's no way I'd win this.


----------



## Nordstrom (Apr 8, 2014)

krory said:


> I would probably try to read something in pig latin. I'm a masochist like that.
> 
> Who am I kidding, I don't read anymore.



You'd need new eyeballs afterwards. It's "ay" all over the place. I'd rather hear Spongebob Squarepants rendition of Pirate Speak.

Or a novel written by Dan Schneider.



> (IPA [eɪ]) (for example, pig yields igpay, banana yields ananabay, and *trash* yields *ashtray*).



I mean, really?


----------



## Krory (Apr 8, 2014)

Guh, you're right. Okay, time to re-do it all.


----------



## Krory (Apr 8, 2014)

*How did no one else catch that?

This is basic math here.*


----------



## Krory (Apr 8, 2014)

*Mist Puppet (8.1 average)
Firaea (8.0 average)
Tyrael (7.9 average)*

Okay, double checked this top 3, and the next closest ones (myself, Lucky, Jaded Heart, Leeroy, Fedster, and Ban - I forgot to round up Jade's too, so 7.5/7.6). So those top 3 _should_ be correct now.

I'm guessing I added 8 instead of 7 to yours, Firaea, since that math works out to the 8.2 I got.

So, Mist wins again unless I _really_ fucked up, which is not beyond possibility.


----------



## Krory (Apr 8, 2014)

ITT:


----------



## Mist Puppet (Apr 8, 2014)

dat .1 difference between the top 3


----------



## Krory (Apr 8, 2014)

One of these days I'll know what the Top 3 feels like!


----------



## Oceania (Apr 8, 2014)

3.5?!?!?! AWWWWWWW YEAHHHHHH. :33


----------



## Firaea (Apr 8, 2014)

krory said:


> So, Mist wins *again* unless I _really_ fucked up, which is not beyond possibility.


----------



## Tyrael (Apr 8, 2014)

2nd place, 1st place, 1st place - that's a pretty fierce record there.


----------



## Oceania (Apr 8, 2014)

Tyrael said:


> 2nd place, 1st place, 1st place - that's a pretty fierce record there.



So in other words a final four ring and two national title rings.


----------



## Tyrael (Apr 8, 2014)

Those are indeed other words, it's just a pity I don't understand them.

Rings?


----------



## Krory (Apr 8, 2014)

inb4 he wins next time, too.


----------



## Firaea (Apr 8, 2014)

Now to await the next topic which I will hopefully have time and inspiration to submit an entry for...


----------



## Oceania (Apr 8, 2014)

Tyrael said:


> Those are indeed other words, it's just a pity I don't understand them.
> 
> Rings?



In college basketball if you win a championship you receive a ring that has your teams logo and the year you won the title on it.


----------



## Garfield (Apr 9, 2014)

Ok. We're starting new one right? Mist Puppet, when will you pick another topic? :3


----------



## Krory (Apr 9, 2014)

Assuming everyone is satisfied, we can wait to see if more people rate if people prefer.

Or, if we're good, Misto can indeed pick the next topic... _again_. 

@IdioticGamer - I saw your request, I'll hit you up, promise.


----------



## Garfield (Apr 9, 2014)

Someone go kick Mist Puppet and wake him up and tell him to haul his sloth ass over here.


/gangsta


----------



## Mist Puppet (Apr 9, 2014)

i vmed boksov my chosen topic


----------



## Krory (Apr 9, 2014)

Oh my this topic is going to be fun.


----------



## Krory (Apr 9, 2014)

>MFW deadline for submission is eight days ago


----------



## Buskuv (Apr 9, 2014)

Then you'd better hurry.


----------



## Garfield (Apr 9, 2014)

I think Boskov has finally fallen off his rocker.

Can I start writing the eulogy?


----------



## Firaea (Apr 9, 2014)

That's an unexpected topic.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Apr 10, 2014)

Mist Puppet said:


> i vmed boksov my chosen topic



In a world full of monsters and demons, Misto's, the only one who sees them.


----------



## Tyrael (Apr 10, 2014)

Ah goddamit. Sometimes I wish this year would stop being a big bunch of bollocks.

Also, I think Monsters was the 4th topic of the original flashfics too. Was half tempted to repost my entry from it, if I could find it, but I'd probs be the only one who'd get the joke.



Oceania said:


> In college basketball if you win a championship you receive a ring that has your teams logo and the year you won the title on it.



I'm a Scot, so don't know much about the whole, strange, college sport seriousness you guys have.


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> In a world full of monsters and demons, Misto's, the only one who sees them.





That was beautiful, man.


----------



## Linkofone (Apr 10, 2014)

Sounds YGOish.


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2014)

No need to be insulting.


----------



## Linkofone (Apr 10, 2014)

Insulting? Yu-Gi-Oh! is fantastic.


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2014)

Oh, you...


----------



## Linkofone (Apr 10, 2014)

Look at me, would I lie?


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2014)

Yes.

You would.


----------



## Linkofone (Apr 10, 2014)

You got me there. 

But that wasn't an insult. It is the highest compliment I've ever given.


----------



## Krory (Apr 10, 2014)

I'm sorry to hear that.


----------



## Linkofone (Apr 10, 2014)

Why sorry? I make profit off the game.


----------



## Krory (Apr 12, 2014)

Bumping this thread because nobody else seems to want to use it.


----------



## Garfield (Apr 12, 2014)

krory working on his pick up lines, "Hey girl, wanna go out with me? Because it appears no one else is really interested in you."


----------



## Lord Yu (Apr 12, 2014)

krory said:


> Bumping this thread because nobody else seems to want to use it.



Justice can sleep for centuries, to wake when it's least expected.

This thread is Justice.


----------



## Krory (Apr 12, 2014)

Your _face_ is justice.


----------



## Buskuv (Apr 13, 2014)

I'm building a small library of books from work, especially harder to get/rare titles.  They've literally begun to touch the ceiling above my wardrobe.  

I plan on reading them some day.


----------



## Krory (Apr 13, 2014)

Reading is overrated.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 13, 2014)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I'm building a small library of books from work, especially harder to get/rare titles.  They've literally begun to touch the ceiling above my wardrobe.
> 
> I plan on reading them some day.



I stopped buying books a while back and started getting them as digital copies. I just don't have the shelf space for all of the ones I had and even though I have a whole house to myself I'd rather not occupy it all with books. The Kindle is kind of nice to have and I really don't miss books at all. I do think I miss my older, Paper White Kindle for it's crazy long battery life. But it's nice to be able to read comics.


----------



## Garfield (Apr 13, 2014)

I've started finding digital books far more comfortable to read than paper books actually. I love reading on my laptop. Can't wait to get something like google glass so I can read while walking.

I think what built this habit in me is actually the fact that I read much more technical textbooks and papers and articles than anything, where I have to keep a notebook in front of me as well to note important points. :3


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 13, 2014)

adee said:


> I've started finding digital books far more comfortable to read than paper books actually. I love reading on my laptop. Can't wait to get something like google glass so I can read while walking.
> 
> I think what built this habit in me is actually the fact that I read much more technical textbooks and papers and articles than anything, where I have to keep a notebook in front of me as well to note important points. :3



Yeah I love how my notes carry over from device to device and get compiled into a little annotated document. Sadly, my notes from Fifty Shades of Grey are in there and most of them are things like "WTF?" and "Really?". 

When it comes to people who are anti digital book I feel about them like I feel about people who hated digital cameras or MP3 players or Blu Ray.

"What?"


----------



## Firaea (Apr 13, 2014)

I'm not the biggest fan of e-books, personally. Nothing will ever replace the feeling of an actual book in my hands. I can't really explain why, but there's a strange enjoyment to be found in actually being able to touch and flip the pages manually. It gives the experience a more personal feeling for me. Sometimes, I even fish out some of my favourite novels from their shelves and re-read certain parts which I really loved. They're almost like prized artefacts of mine. 

I hope to eventually have a rich collection of novels which I'd properly archive someday. :33


On an unrelated note, this face... just... gets me everytime.


----------



## Garfield (Apr 13, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Yeah I love how my notes carry over from device to device and get compiled into a little annotated document. Sadly, my notes from Fifty Shades of Grey are in there and most of them are things like "WTF?" and "Really?".
> 
> When it comes to people who are anti digital book I feel about them like I feel about people who hated digital cameras or MP3 players or Blu Ray.
> 
> "What?"


It's just overall much easier for people like students or people who travel a lot. laptops or e-readers take up less space; and I for one don't see the inconvenience of it.

The ideal gadget setup for me is: A good laptop + a good wide-screen smartphone + a good mp3 player for music on the go. Would love to have a google glass type thing hooked up to my phone and a smartwatch when they are easily available. I really don't understand how people have this aversion of dependence on devices. 



Firaea said:


> I'm not the biggest fan of e-books, personally. Nothing will ever replace the feeling of an actual book in my hands. I can't really explain why, but there's a strange enjoyment to be found in actually being able to touch and flip the pages manually. It gives the experience a more personal feeling for me. Sometimes, I even fish out some of my favourite novels from their shelves and re-read certain parts which I really loved. They're almost like prized artefacts of mine.
> 
> I hope to eventually have a rich collection of novels which I'd properly archive someday. :33
> 
> ...



Well I don't mind as long as people have their personal preference towards it, but a lot of people treat me openly as an idiot of subpar intelligence when I tell them of my preference and _that_ is what annoys me a lot.

ane made it for me  Thank you!


----------



## Krory (Apr 13, 2014)

Sorry, all your avatars suck compared to Laura Bailey.


----------



## Garfield (Apr 13, 2014)

Laura who?


----------



## Krory (Apr 13, 2014)




----------



## Jagger (Apr 13, 2014)

adee said:


> I've started finding digital books far more comfortable to read than paper books actually. I love reading on my laptop. Can't wait to get something like google glass so I can read while walking.
> 
> I think what built this habit in me is actually the fact that I read much more technical textbooks and papers and articles than anything, where I have to keep a notebook in front of me as well to note important points. :3


I honestly prefer the physical copies of a book. Maybe because I'm a lazy bastard incapable of standing up, getting his laptop, opening the book and reading it. It probably takes the same amount of time that it takes to search the book itself, but I guess it's just me.


----------



## Firaea (Apr 14, 2014)

adee said:


> Well I don't mind as long as people have their personal preference towards it, but *a lot of people treat me openly as an idiot of subpar intelligence when I tell them of my preference* and _that_ is what annoys me a lot.
> 
> ane made it for me  Thank you!



I think a lot of people are guilty of that, both on this forum and otherwise. 



krory said:


> Sorry, all your avatars suck compared to Laura Bailey.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Apr 14, 2014)

I can't learn much of digital textbooks.  I hate opening them, I hate studying them, I hate clicking through them, and I hate seeing how far down I need to scroll, and how many pages I need to go through, and I can't flip back and forth the way I like to with a real text book.

They're way more convenient for carrying around though, and digital source texts are cheap or free in pdf form.  Some books I just like owning a copy of.  I picked up a donated copy of _Leviathan_ the other day, and I think that's worth keeping around on a shelf.


----------



## Garfield (Apr 14, 2014)

I actually agree that my particular field of study is particularly --and I said this before-- suited to digital textbooks, which is kinda why those are ironically the exact reasons I really love them lol.


----------



## Tyrael (Apr 14, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> I can't learn much of digital textbooks.  I hate opening them, I hate studying them, I hate clicking through them, and I hate seeing how far down I need to scroll, and how many pages I need to go through, and I can't flip back and forth the way I like to with a real text book.
> 
> They're way more convenient for carrying around though, and digital source texts are cheap or free in pdf form.  Some books I just like owning a copy of.  I picked up a donated copy of _Leviathan_ the other day, and I think that's worth keeping around on a shelf.



Was intending to check out Leviathan, but then I read The Uglies series and was unimpressed. They weren't bad books at all, but they fell far short of their own premise.

Leviathan's still worth checking out?


----------



## Buskuv (Apr 23, 2014)

LIVE DAMN YOU

I feel like I should start some kind of blog that I feel obligated to update.  That way I may actually write often rather than just... periodically, if that.


----------



## Krory (Apr 23, 2014)

Well we _were_ supposed to bring all conversation but ratings to the ratings thread I thought, but it looks like people disagreed with that notion.


----------



## Buskuv (Apr 23, 2014)

FUCK THE POLICE

I need to read through all the entries.

Even if I don't rate 'em, I try to read them all, like a good boy.


----------



## Krory (Apr 23, 2014)

Then be respectful and at least give us opinions. 

I'm really mad at myself because I have an idea but I just like... can't sit down and write it.


----------



## Buskuv (Apr 23, 2014)

I'm just retarded and awful at everything I do.

So I don't do it.

However, I'll definitely try to read 'em, maybe even tonight.


----------



## Garfield (Apr 23, 2014)

>conversations
>in LD


----------



## Krory (Apr 23, 2014)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> *I'm just retarded and awful at everything I do.
> *
> So I don't do it.
> 
> However, I'll definitely try to read 'em, maybe even tonight.



So am I - have you even _seen_ my ratings and reviews?

But I still do it.


----------



## Firaea (Apr 24, 2014)

ITT: People who think they're retarded and awful.


----------



## Garfield (Apr 24, 2014)

Except me.

I don't even think


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Apr 25, 2014)

Tyrael said:


> Was intending to check out Leviathan, but then I read The Uglies series and was unimpressed. They weren't bad books at all, but they fell far short of their own premise.
> 
> Leviathan's still worth checking out?



I think we're referring to different Leviathans.  I picked up the work of political philosophy by Thomas Hobbes.  

I never checked out the fantasy series.


----------



## Mist Puppet (Apr 26, 2014)

Finally posted my entry :33


----------



## Firaea (Apr 26, 2014)

*@Banhammer:*

Thank you so very much for the detailed review/rating. It is _very, very much_ appreciated. :33

I'll admit, I struggled tremendously with the word limit on this one. There was too much I was trying to say with too little, and I agree fully with your criticisms of it. Perhaps I might explain my piece a little more after the ratings are done as I don't want to influence anyone's reading of it.

As for the ending, it was deliberately slightly open-ended. I do have my own opinion of what it is, but I'll keep it up to readers' interpretation for now. 

All in all, thank you very much for the detailed reviews.


I'll try to give my reviews later if I can. If not, I'll do it by the next weekend latest. I promise.


----------



## Stelios (Apr 27, 2014)

Banhammer:

I m not a poem expert either ^^ ... What I tried to do was to give a generic image of : Where, Who , What leaving the details up to imagination.
One more thing that I want to succeed is that the verses feel unforced when someone is reading them. I m glad about the spoken outloud remark because I definitely read it with some grandiosity inside my head ^^ 
 About the no actions yeah you are right.  Now that I read it again I could have added some verses of what is happening between the start and end of battle.

Thank you


----------



## Krory (Apr 27, 2014)

I'm really, really trying to get an entry out. /sob


----------



## Firaea (Apr 28, 2014)

krory said:


> I'm really, really trying to get an entry out. /sob



You've got about two more days.


----------



## Krory (Apr 29, 2014)

Alright, I got a hundred percent in Lego Marvel, time to dedicate myself to this last minute.


----------



## Stelios (Apr 29, 2014)

krory said:


> Alright, I got a hundred percent in *Lego Marvel, *time to dedicate myself to this last minute.




I never played any Lego computer game even when psn gave it for free.. Are they fun?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 29, 2014)

Lego Marvel was hard at least from the demo I played. Though we were pretty plastered.


----------



## Buskuv (Apr 29, 2014)

Lego games are actually pretty solid.  Some better than others, but they are, by and large, the cream of the crop when it comes to licensed games.  I guess it's because they're made by Lego and not code-monkey shovelware companies.


----------



## Krory (Apr 29, 2014)

Lego Games are pretty beautiful, and they only seem to get better. I hear Lego Batman 2 was pretty solid. They only just recently started using voices for the characters. Lego Marvel was a real blast, a metric shit-ton of characters, too. Lego LotR is pretty great so far - they reuse the audio from the movies but the audio quality is real crap, though I hear Lego The Hobbit does it much better.


----------



## Mist Puppet (Apr 29, 2014)

I've only played lego star wars but that game was pretty legit


----------



## Krory (Apr 29, 2014)

Lego Star Wars was the bomb, even made the atrocious prequel trilogy fun.


----------



## Firaea (May 1, 2014)

Did my ratings, as promised. I guess the contest is now closed? 11 entries. Fairly healthy. Now we wait for the reviews/ratings to start rolling in.

Also, for anyone interested, this is roughly how I go about my ratings:

<5/10 - Below average.
5/10 - Mediocre.
6/10 - Decent.
7/10 - Great.
8/10 - Really great.
9/10 - Really, _really_ great.
10/10 - Godly. [I don't think I'll ever give a 10.]

I'm currently operating on a .5 rating scale, which makes me a bit uncomfortable because I found it really difficult to decide on a number for the best entries. Some of them didn't feel sufficient for an 8, but a 7.5 felt too low for them. And I sometimes gave the same score to multiple entries which I didn't exactly consider equal. I might consider operating on a .1 rating scale in future instead to allow for more nuances.


----------



## Stelios (May 1, 2014)

​


----------



## Buskuv (May 3, 2014)

Keep it up!


----------



## Buskuv (May 22, 2014)

It's been like 3 weeks.

I need to finish my Gene Wolf collection, but goddamn, I don't like ordering books online because of that shipping.


----------



## Krory (May 22, 2014)

I need to actually _read_ something.

The only thing I've read recently is both prologues for The Way of Kings.  I blame not reading for the reason of my not writing.


----------



## Buskuv (May 22, 2014)

You should read them!

They're good.

Well, I know the first book is good; I haven't started the second yet.


----------



## Krory (May 22, 2014)

Yeah, I was really impressed with what I actually did read. Very well-written and badass fight scene, even if certain phrases were used quite abundantly. But overall was really engaging and was easy to get sucked in (main reason I didn't read more at that time was because I was just waiting in the car for my brother to finish a doctor's appointment... just never bothered to pick it up again when I came home because NF).


----------



## Zhen Chan (May 22, 2014)

44 pages in 4 years

Impressive


----------



## Buskuv (May 22, 2014)

Yeah, it's a doorstopper novel so it'll take awhile to get through.

Sanderson has a problem with dialog, but it's the least noticeable, in my opinion, with his Way of the Kings books.


----------



## Krory (May 22, 2014)

I dragged myself through the hell of five Wheel of Time books to try and impress a girl.

I think I can manage.


----------



## Buskuv (May 22, 2014)

Oh lord.

I'm so sorry.


----------



## Krory (May 22, 2014)

So am I.

Only like two decent characters and one of them was hardly prevalent until after that point.


----------



## Tyrael (May 26, 2014)

Wait...

Where'd the LD go?


----------



## Krory (May 26, 2014)

It has transcended.

Evolved, if you will.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 26, 2014)

Tyrael said:


> Wait...
> 
> Where'd the LD go?



It goes in and out in phases as always. I don't even know what's going on in the Aspiring Author thread so I've kind of not said anything.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (May 28, 2014)

What happened to the name.  It went from a University department, to some kind of storytime reading circle.  

I'm not comfortable with change.  :appropriate emote


----------



## Nordstrom (May 28, 2014)

I am actually. Infinite Library would've been better. But the former was so sterile I'd rather not deal with it. We're entertaining! Not boring!


----------



## Krory (May 28, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> What happened to the name.  It went from a University department, to some kind of storytime reading circle.
> 
> I'm not comfortable with change.  :appropriate emote



It fits better with the theme of the "Mall" section that we are under, just as the Gaming Department was changed to The Arcade. Although the initial idea I had was something like the Bookstore, Boskov decided to go with Reader's Corner as it is the name of a bookstore he is familiar with.

Change breeds new life.


----------



## Buskuv (May 28, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> What happened to the name.  It went from a University department, to some kind of storytime reading circle.
> 
> I'm not comfortable with change.  :appropriate emote



Yeah, because this forum was super academic and erudite before, right?


----------



## Krory (May 28, 2014)

Dr. Biscuit Kardashian said:


> Yeah, because this forum was super academic and erudite before, right?





It wasn't?!


----------



## Nordstrom (May 28, 2014)

Dr. Biscuit Kardashian said:


> Yeah, because this forum was super academic and erudite before, right?



Bite me, the only "departments" I know are those of France and Colombia.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (May 28, 2014)

Dr. Biscuit Kardashian said:


> Yeah, because this forum was super academic and erudite before, right?



I liked to pretend this was the one section not on a Naruto forum.

Cardboardtube would sit in a lounge chair smoking his pipe, giving book talks, while Tyrael drank tea in an Ezio cloak discussing writing.  You were the kindly librarian and department chair.  Then Mist Puppet, on a higher stage, hosting a class on modern classics, like _Bleach._ 

Every last one of us wore a monocle.


----------



## Nordstrom (May 28, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> I liked to pretend this was the one section not on a Naruto forum.
> 
> Cardboardtube would sit in a lounge chair smoking his pipe, giving book talks, while Tyrael drank tea in an Ezio cloak discussing writing.  You were the kindly librarian and department chair.  Then Mist Puppet, on a higher stage, hosting a class on modern classics, like _Bleach._
> 
> Every last one of us wore a monocle.



That's a Gentleman's Club (and I hate that) not a department! Or an outdated Ocean Liner's Smoking Room.

I always imagined this place as a large library where CTK would be seating on the floor surrounded by theology books, Krory would be in an ancient typewriter throwing out paper balls to an already full trash bin and you would often seek references for character building in a ladder only for Risyth to appear behind a couple books and ask you if you found anything yet.

I would often be laying down in a bookshelf using one of the books as a pillow while I read as many corny and freaky romance novels I could get... They were all stockpiled on the shelves below and above me.

Everyone of us looked awesome, rich and elitist


----------



## Buskuv (May 28, 2014)

Reader's Corner is a fantastic used book store tucked in the corner of a forgotten end of a college street near where I live--it's exactly what you're imagining, I shit you not.  It's a little cramped, but full of writers, readers and other folk milling through books, reading on chairs, or even on stacks of old books.

But no smoking near the books.  

That's gross; do it outside.

They also play great classical almost exclusively, with a little Post and Hard-Bop mixed in.


----------



## Nordstrom (May 28, 2014)

Dr. Biscuit Kardashian said:


> Reader's Corner is a fantastic used book store tucked in the corner of a forgotten end of a college street near where I live--*it's exactly what you're imagining, I shit you not.  It's a little cramped, but full of writers, readers and other folk milling through books, reading on chairs, or even on stacks of old books.*
> 
> But no smoking near the books.
> 
> ...



Then the section's got an splendid name!!!

Also, who the fuck smokes in an _indoor space_? Are they really that nuts?



> Then Mist Puppet, on a higher stage, hosting a class on modern classics, like Bleach.



:rofl

Modern classics, that's like "Ancient Futurism"


----------



## Buskuv (May 28, 2014)

There really aren't any many places as fucking great or comfy as a completely independent used book store.

They must have had a problem in the past, though, since there are signs all over the door about not smoking inside.


----------



## Nordstrom (May 28, 2014)

Smoking inside is plain horrible. Everyone can choke on your fumes and it bars allegic readers from going in there.

And yes, independent bookstores are the shit!

Next rename... Gepetto Bosconovitch


----------



## Buskuv (May 28, 2014)

DR Gepetto Bosconovitch

Though, this is an adminfuck, so it could be anything.  Apparently it's up to Table's whimsy what my name is, or will be.


----------



## Krory (May 28, 2014)

And now people are glad I suggested renaming the place.  And thank you Boskov for coming up with the perfect name. Though I'm not sure what's more worrisome - what people imagine this place as or how highly they imagine some people.


----------



## Mist Puppet (May 28, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> I liked to pretend this was the one section not on a Naruto forum.
> 
> Cardboardtube would sit in a lounge chair smoking his pipe, giving book talks, while Tyrael drank tea in an Ezio cloak discussing writing.  You were the kindly librarian and department chair.  Then Mist Puppet, on a higher stage, hosting a class on modern classics, like _Bleach._
> 
> Every last one of us wore a monocle.


----------



## Nordstrom (May 29, 2014)

Dr. Biscuit Kardashian said:


> *DR* Gepetto Bosconovitch
> 
> Though, this is an adminfuck, so it could be anything.  Apparently it's up to Table's whimsy what my name is, or will be.



Of course Dr. 



krory said:


> And now people are glad I suggested renaming the place.  And thank you Boskov for coming up with the perfect name. Though I'm not sure what's more worrisome - what people imagine this place as or how highly they imagine some people.



I am glad your suggestion was taken into account.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 29, 2014)

This thread is almost four years old...get to work mother fuckers.


----------



## Tyrael (May 29, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Every last one of us wore a monocle.



Since when did we let people in here who don't wear monocles?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 29, 2014)

I'm trying to decide if I want to torture myself and try to finish Fifty Shades of Grey. I spent eight dollars, but is it really worth enduring that bullshit. I could spend a few more and try to stomach the audio book, but I fear that would break me.


----------



## Krory (May 29, 2014)

Tyrael said:


> Since when did we let people in here who don't wear monocles?



Since none of you fuckers have kicked me out yet.


----------



## Tyrael (May 29, 2014)

Don't give more money to 50 Shades of Gray.

Hell, save up for my upcoming epic, to be released in 2025. The first page will be just the words WHAT IF? and the next two hundred will be blank. It'll probably win a Turner Prize or something.



krory said:


> Since none of you fuckers have kicked me out yet.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 29, 2014)

Tyrael said:


> Don't give more money to 50 Shades of Gray.
> 
> Hell, save up for my upcoming epic, to be released in 2025. The first page will be just the words WHAT IF? and the next two hundred will be blank. It'll probably win a Turner Prize or something.



That's art... 

And my friend paid for the book initially because we were going to read it together. Then she read it and suffered alone. I paid her back for it, but this book is haunting me. Oddly enough there's more of a chance of me reading this than there is of me reading anymore A Song of Fire and Ice. At least with this book I won't have to suffer for weeks.


----------



## Tyrael (May 29, 2014)

You know, a student got a grant off of Edinburgh Council to make a film titled "Blue". He then proceeded to record a blue wall for eight hours and then speed it up to make a ten minute film. Of a blue wall.

He got money off the government to do this.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 29, 2014)

Tyrael said:


> You know, a student got a grant off of Edinburgh Council to make a film titled "Blue". He then proceeded to record a blue wall for eight hours and then speed it up to make a ten minute film. Of a blue wall.
> 
> He got money off the government to do this.



This is a better government movie project than any of the films that Uwe Boll used the money from the German government to produce.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (May 29, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> That's art...
> 
> And my friend paid for the book initially because we were going to read it together. Then she read it and suffered alone. I paid her back for it, but this book is haunting me. Oddly enough there's more of a chance of me reading this than there is of me reading anymore A Song of Fire and Ice. At least with this book I won't have to suffer for weeks.



Read it to us out loud in a vocaroo. One page for each day this chat remains unfulfilled.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 29, 2014)

I would have to start over and that won't happen.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (May 29, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I'm trying to decide if I want to torture myself and try to finish Fifty Shades of Grey. I spent eight dollars, but is it really worth enduring that bullshit. I could spend a few more and try to stomach the audio book, but I fear that would break me.


----------



## Garfield (May 29, 2014)

Mods falling heavily for the rebranding philosophy

This corporate-ish hippy culture is interesting


----------



## Krory (May 29, 2014)

Are you saying you are unappreciative, adee?


----------



## Garfield (May 29, 2014)

I'm just an observer, I'm not here for judgment. I simply record the happenings of this forum.


----------



## Krory (May 29, 2014)

That is an awful diversion.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (May 29, 2014)

adee said:


> I'm just an observer, I'm not here for judgment. I simply record the happenings of this forum.


Our very own Astinus, eh?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jun 4, 2014)

Started some shit with my literature degree friends on Facebook yesterday when I asked about Magical Realism and what made it any different from Fantasy. I'm convinced that it's a category to put books in that academics deem "worthy". Since they know that I don't really believe that literary fiction is a real thing, most of them didn't really say much on the subject. 

But I feel like their pretentiousness about the subject kind of proves my point. I mean we all see the difference between something being better in quality than something else; we don't usually let quality be its own genre.


----------



## Krory (Jun 4, 2014)




----------



## Cax (Jun 4, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Started some shit with my literature degree friends on Facebook yesterday when I asked about Magical Realism and what made it any different from Fantasy. I'm convinced that it's a category to put books in that academics deem "worthy". Since they know that I don't really believe that literary fiction is a real thing, most of them didn't really say much on the subject.
> 
> But I feel like their pretentiousness about the subject kind of proves my point. I mean we all see the difference between something being better in quality than something else; we don't usually let quality be its own genre.



Why would you do that? You're pretentious as fuck. 

And magical realism is plenty different from fantasy.


----------



## Tyrael (Jun 4, 2014)

Fantasy is a big, nebulous and diverse genre. I'd have no trouble classing magical realism as a sub-genre.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jun 4, 2014)

Cax said:


> Why would you do that? You're pretentious as fuck.
> 
> And magical realism is plenty different from fantasy.



Oh,  yes the old pretension via inclusiveness. Gets them every time. 

I think it's far more pretentious to try and make what you think to be quality its own genre. And it seems like I'm not alone in that thought.


----------



## Buskuv (Jun 4, 2014)

Yeah, not a fan of the 'it's different because group a likes it more.'

What does magical realism even mean?  That's more nebulous than fantasy because fantasy makes no claims to its 'realism,' but makes magic 'realistic?"  And enough so to warrant an entire genre?

Mind you, I've never seen the term until now.


----------



## Tyrael (Jun 4, 2014)

It's a very loose sub-genre that grew out of Latin American.

Tends to be applied to novels with a strong fantastical presence that gain acclaim within literary circles, and often just seems to be a way of distancing them from "genre" novels.


----------



## Krory (Jun 4, 2014)

Dr. Biscuit Kardashian said:


> Yeah, not a fan of the 'it's different because group a likes it more.'
> 
> What does magical realism even mean?  That's more nebulous than fantasy because fantasy makes no claims to its 'realism,' but makes magic 'realistic?"  And enough so to warrant an entire genre?
> 
> Mind you, I've never seen the term until now.



It was a Latin American concept that essentially was fantasy but didn't know what they were writing (or painting, since it also applies to other artforms), but then got hijacked by hipsters. Even advocates of it don't know what it is and use the ole', "If you can explain it, then it's not it" argument. People use it to reference different things ranging from differences in narrative to magical/supernatural properties in what we know as the real world but are commonplace/well-known.

Overall, the entire concept is basically like an exclusive clubhouse that the members can't even explain themselves and get all hoity-toity when someone questions it... but it's equally become the stomping ground of fantasy authors who want to flaunt themselves as "real fantasy writers" who basically classify "magic realism" as people too afraid to use terms like "fantasy."

The whole thing is the equivalent of a really dumb, really childish pairing war on NF.


----------



## Buskuv (Jun 4, 2014)

Oh, sweet, so it's appropriation. 

Neat.

What books are considered to be part of the genre?  Now I'm genuinely curious.  I've read several fantasy books that felt more like literature than anything (the most recent being Book of the new Sun), but I wonder what's considered 'hoity-toity' in fantasy.


----------



## Tyrael (Jun 4, 2014)

Not sure how agreed on this list is, or whether or not it's just this particular blogger's opinion.

Funnily enough, Gene Wolfe actually has expressed his own exasperation at the term "magical realism" himself, as well as the term "speculative fiction".


----------



## Krory (Jun 4, 2014)

Dr. Biscuit Kardashian said:


> Oh, sweet, so it's appropriation.
> 
> Neat.
> 
> What books are considered to be part of the genre?  Now I'm genuinely curious.  I've read several fantasy books that felt more like literature than anything (the most recent being Book of the new Sun), but I wonder what's considered 'hoity-toity' in fantasy.



According to Wikipedia, novels classed as "Magic realism" include stuff like 

Chocolat
The Green Knight
Midnight's Children
Skellig
One Hundred Years of Solitude
The Green Mile
Life of Pi

Looks like there's only roughly .

Gene Wolfe is apparently one of those anti-magic realism people who said magic realism is basically just "fantasy written by people who are Spanish."


----------



## Tyrael (Jun 4, 2014)

krory said:


> Gene Wolfe is apparently one of those anti-magic realism people who said magic realism is basically just "fantasy written by people who are Spanish."



I'd suggest characterising him as a part of group who consider themselves to write "real fantasy" is unfairly to the point of being outright misleading. His views on comics and speculative fiction as a whole suggest his views aren't about trying to de-legitimise writers who fall outside the recognised genre - more that he considers such divisions to be useless and silly.


----------



## Krory (Jun 4, 2014)

Tyrael said:


> I'd suggest characterising him as a part of group who consider themselves to write "real fantasy" is unfairly to the point of being outright misleading. His views on comics and speculative fiction as a whole suggest his views aren't about trying to de-legitimise writers who fall outside the recognised genre - more that he considers such divisions to be useless and silly.



Considering all I said was that he was against "magic realism" terminology and expressed a view of essentially what it exactly started as, I don't see anything misleading or unfair about it. Or even anything with negative connotations. What he said is basically a _fact_.


----------



## Tyrael (Jun 4, 2014)

Well, it seemed like you were equating him with this:



krory said:


> it's equally become the stomping ground of fantasy authors who want to flaunt themselves as "real fantasy writers" who basically classify "magic realism" as people too afraid to use terms like "fantasy.".


----------



## Krory (Jun 4, 2014)

Well I was not, my mistake if I implied that.


----------



## Tyrael (Jun 4, 2014)

Fair enough likes.

You read much Wolfe? To this day Peace continues to sit at the back of my mind.


----------



## Krory (Jun 4, 2014)

I don't read much of anything anymore, unfortunately. A habit I keep saying I'll change but instead I just troll NF and sleep.


----------



## Buskuv (Jun 4, 2014)

Gene Wolfe is great.

It sometimes can become a quagmire of prose, though.  I feel the fever dream way he describes things, at times, is wholly intentional but sometimes I have to re-read passages to make heads or tails of it.  Love it to death, though; and it sounds pretentious saying so after writing all that, but whatever.

Ty should know I'm a sappy, unnecessarily verbose prose peddler.

One Hundred Years of Solitude is fantastic, though, so I guess if it gets out to more people (to which I find is surprisingly few, given its status), can't fault that.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jun 5, 2014)

I picked up a Phillip K Dick novel the other night "The Man in the High Castle". It's okay so far, interesting. I haven't gotten super far into it, but I think that there is some big stuff going on that comes to fruition because I just feel it. 

Alternate History is something that I have been wanting to do, but I haven't had the balls to really sit down and try because my knowledge of the historical period that I want to do isn't all that great. So I wanted to just see what others have done in the genre.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Jun 7, 2014)

I heard the term "Magical realism" last night from one of my literature friends.  They told me to google it.


----------



## Revolution (Jun 8, 2014)

not very scholarly, but it cracked me up


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jun 8, 2014)

Has anyone read The Master and Margarita?


----------



## Tyrael (Jun 8, 2014)

Weirdly enough, I just started reading it yesterday.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jun 9, 2014)

Tyrael said:


> Weirdly enough, I just started reading it yesterday.



It sucks that I can't find it digitally anywhere. I heard there was some interesting portrayal of the Devil in there.


----------



## Buskuv (Jun 15, 2014)

I may be coming into a job that basically necessitates a good book to kill a few hours at a time, and it may be the boon I've needed for catching up on my reading.  

I'd be pretty floored to have that time.

Not that I should be making excuses anyways, but sometimes you need that push.


----------



## Krory (Jun 15, 2014)

I read two books in the past few days, even though they were very short YA books.


----------



## Mist Puppet (Jun 15, 2014)

I've been re-reading The Collection by Bentley Little for like the millionth time

i wonder how much of that book has influenced my writing

...maybe more than what would be considered healthy


----------



## Buskuv (Jun 16, 2014)

I KNEW IT!

You can't escape it, so as long as you don't indulge in direct plagiarism, or just fall prey to subconscious imitation, who cares?  It's not like you can do anything about it.  

There's something magical about reading a sequel, having not read the previous book in a long time, and slowly remembering all the names, places, events and conflicts of the previous book; it's happening with the second Stormlight Archives book and I'm probably falling back into a long book-reading groove.  

I feel like it's gonna be a doozy.


----------



## Tyrael (Jun 16, 2014)

Jeez BK, you're such a plagiarist.

Has Sanderson's writing improved since Mistborn? His prose back then was so weak - repetitive and full of telling.


----------



## Buskuv (Jun 16, 2014)

He has gotten better.

Whether or not it's enough to sway you is up in there, honestly.  I've enjoyed his world and characters enough even with his flat and dry prose that I may just be able to ignore, but his improvement is noticeable.  The later Mistborn books have also improved; the Alloy of Law trilogy is shaping up nicely.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jun 26, 2014)

Dr. Biscuit Kardashian said:


> He has gotten better.
> 
> Whether or not it's enough to sway you is up in there, honestly.  I've enjoyed his world and characters enough even with his flat and dry prose that I may just be able to ignore, but his improvement is noticeable.  The later Mistborn books have also improved; the Alloy of Law trilogy is shaping up nicely.



I think that the third Mistborn was the worst of it honestly. I haven't touched four despite owning it. But I ended up buying the audio book to make it through that third book because I couldn't dredge through it. I hope he's gotten better since then. 

This is going to sound really sad, but I bought Confessions of a Shopaholic solely based on the awesome narrator (well bought is a strong word, I get free books from Audible) and I'm enjoying it more than enough to say it's worth the 11 hours or so of listening time.


----------



## Banhammer (Jun 26, 2014)

Steelheart is the only sanderson book I didn't like all that much


----------



## Buskuv (Jun 26, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I think that the third Mistborn was the worst of it honestly. I haven't touched four despite owning it. But I ended up buying the audio book to make it through that third book because I couldn't dredge through it. I hope he's gotten better since then.
> 
> This is going to sound really sad, but I bought Confessions of a Shopaholic solely based on the awesome narrator (well bought is a strong word, I get free books from Audible) and I'm enjoying it more than enough to say it's worth the 11 hours or so of listening time.



How so?

I mean, I feel the trilogy ran out of gas at certain parts, and was very much lopsided in favor a plot driven narrative--so much so that most of the characters felt like placeholders than actual people, but I still enjoyed it over all.  It was a good start, along with Elantris.

I guess I'm able to overlook his shortcomings because he writes genuinely unique fantasy worlds with a great attention to detail, world building and overall, long reaching plot points.  Even his latest book in the Stormlight Archive series has unusual, anachronistic _sounding_ (because it's probably impossible to have anachronisms in a fantasy book) colloquialisms and dialog in it but I'm enjoying the hell out of it, so I dunno.  He's definitely got a style where you either take it or don't; it's largely sexless and free of vulgarities, but there is a fair amount of violence at points.  He's definitely a person focused on his world building, though.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jun 26, 2014)

Dr. Biscuit Kardashian said:


> How so?
> 
> I mean, I feel the trilogy ran out of gas at certain parts, and was very much lopsided in favor a plot driven narrative--so much so that most of the characters felt like placeholders than actual people, but I still enjoyed it over all.  It was a good start, along with Elantris.
> 
> I guess I'm able to overlook his shortcomings because he writes genuinely unique fantasy worlds with a great attention to detail, world building and overall, long reaching plot points.  Even his latest book in the Stormlight Archive series has unusual, anachronistic _sounding_ (because it's probably impossible to have anachronisms in a fantasy book) colloquialisms and dialog in it but I'm enjoying the hell out of it, so I dunno.  He's definitely got a style where you either take it or don't; it's largely sexless and free of vulgarities, but there is a fair amount of violence at points.  He's definitely a person focused on his world building, though.



The world building and the creation myth that's shared between worlds is probably the thing that interests me the most about Sanderson. But I am really a big plot and characters person. I felt that they sucked most what made Vin a character out of her by the third book, Elend was never really a good character. The love story was tacked on. The whole thing with Sazed really made me upset in the third book too. 

I liked the plot, but the writing of it kind of put me off. And the second book killed one of the most promising characters in the series.


----------



## Nordstrom (Jun 27, 2014)

krory said:


> According to Wikipedia, novels classed as "Magic realism" include stuff like
> 
> Chocolat
> The Green Knight
> ...



Magical realism is simply "fantastic characteristics not highlighted" whereas, in fantasy, they are highlighted as "special".

Like in WP, "If I age 200 years and it's never touched upon, that magical realism... If people point at me and yell "Vampire!" then that's fantasy".


----------



## Buskuv (Jul 4, 2014)

You know what I hate?

That wriggling melancholy that worms its way into my psyche whenever I finish a really engaging story and realize it's either over or the next installment is years away.  Less so with the latter, which is bearable, but I get a wash whenever I finish a really good story.

Or am I alone in this?


----------



## Garfield (Jul 4, 2014)

Dr. Biscuit Kardashian said:


> Or am I alone in this?



Andy with that 9gag mentality 

This name...

It's working Andy.

It's working too well.


----------



## Buskuv (Jul 4, 2014)

9Gag is a pox on the internet.

Your words wound.


----------



## Totally not a cat (Jul 7, 2014)

I still have a knot in my throat. I quit reading, never again. Jesuschrist.

How do I get over someone who's not even real?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 7, 2014)

The power grid in my city sucks. I can feel the power slowly going out...


----------



## Totally not a cat (Jul 7, 2014)

I'm reading something from Jules Verne next because that's what Edward liked

*Spoiler*: __ 



I've been wanting to read him for a while anyways





Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> The power grid in my city sucks. I can feel the power slowly going out...


I know that feel. The slow, despiteful, agony.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 7, 2014)

It's more that the power station here isn't enough to support us with all these people running their A/C. Which I don't get, DOW claims to be putting power back into the grid and there's a Nuclear Power Plant not too far off. So where is all this shit going?


----------



## Buskuv (Jul 8, 2014)

Power companies are crooks with legislation behind them.

Progress Energy is basically a government sanctioned monopoly, and they recently just raised their rates with  no substantial explanation other than they feel they need to do that.


----------



## Darth Niggatron (Jul 8, 2014)

Wait, this is a convo?


----------



## Buskuv (Jul 8, 2014)

"This convo can sleep for centuries, to wake when it's least expected."

Of course not.


----------



## Tyrael (Jul 8, 2014)

Dr. Biscuit Kardashian said:


> Power companies are crooks with legislation behind them.
> 
> Progress Energy is basically a government sanctioned monopoly, and they recently just raised their rates with  no substantial explanation other than they feel they need to do that.



In the UK not that long ago there was a big hulabaloo about energy prices because Labour promised to cap them. The energy companies in the UK in the UK have record levels of profits and are continuing to raise energy prices during times of post-economic depression high unemployment, so people were rightly pissed off by this.

Naturally, the Tories and the Energy Companies were incensed by this, but the media seemed to decide that it wanted to take down this policy too. After relentless barrages of economists telling us it'd kill the economy, energy people telling us that the UK wouldn't have enough energy and so on. Labour got piled on and (I think) relented.

I guess my main point is that I don't know who to hate.


----------



## Buskuv (Jul 8, 2014)

Everyone involved.

Sometimes the EU can get its shit right with market regulation, but even then it looks like it's still a struggle to get it into thick skulls.  Which is, of course, still better than in the US where it's usually just 'sucks to be you' while they swirl their brandy and chomp their cigars.


----------



## Banhammer (Jul 8, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> The power grid in my city sucks. I can feel the power slowly going out...



Portugal produces so much water and wind power we actually have to pay other countries to take power off from us so it doesn't burn out our grid.

Feels good man


----------



## Darth Niggatron (Jul 8, 2014)

Dr. Biscuit Kardashian said:


> "This convo can sleep for centuries, to wake when it's least expected."
> 
> Of course not.



Phew.
I actually almost believed it was a convo for a moment there.
Silly me.


----------



## Buskuv (Jul 8, 2014)

It's alright.

Happens all the time.


----------



## Totally not a cat (Jul 10, 2014)

...And just like that, another night of no sleep passed by. Man, this reading thing is killing me.


----------



## Buskuv (Jul 10, 2014)

A book that grabs you by the lapels is as much of a curse as it is a blessing.

At least when you've got other obligations.


----------



## Darth Niggatron (Jul 10, 2014)

I can testify to that. I once marathoned a book. 14 bloody hours.
Had a migraine for some days afterwards.


----------



## Nordstrom (Jul 10, 2014)

Banhammer said:


> Portugal produces so much water and wind power we actually have to pay other countries to take power off from us so it doesn't burn out our grid.
> 
> Feels good man




You're Portuguese?

Nice! I'm next door


----------



## Darth Niggatron (Jul 11, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I've done that a few times with no real side effects. I did it with all the Harry Potter books on my first read through. I got them done in about a two week span. On the days when I was reading I read one in a whole day each time.



You'd probably had loads of practice. Twas my first.

Made me remember my read of ASoIaF. Nine days, was it?


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Jul 12, 2014)

My neck always hurts at the end of those marathon reading sessions.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 12, 2014)

I make sure to move around while reading or lay down or just go out somewhere with a really comfortable seat and all of that.


----------



## Totally not a cat (Jul 12, 2014)

_"This is a work of fiction. Names, characters, places and incidents either are the product of the author’s imagination or are used fictitiously, and any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, business establishments, events or locales is entirely coincidental."_

Is it okay that I was deeply offended by that disclaimer? It's obviously true, but it made me wince and sick in my stomach.


----------



## Totally not a cat (Jul 13, 2014)

Jesus fucking christ, Zane.


----------



## Tyrael (Jul 13, 2014)

That disclaimer is on pretty much every book published by a mainstream publisher. It's just to stop lawsuits I've always assumed.



The Pirate on Wheels said:


> My neck always hurts at the end of those marathon reading sessions.



Yeah, that's the thing that bothers me. Takes me ages to get comfortable.


----------



## Buskuv (Jul 13, 2014)

I need a good readin' chair--old, slightly musty, but broken in, comfy and worn.

Needs to sit in an alcove, just enough so that angled light from the windows can catch the soup swirls of dust floating in the room; natural light is always the best.  Hopefully in a nice, quiet part of the house; not silent, but quiet, the difference being all the difference in the world.

I could spend an eternity there.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Aug 1, 2014)

So yeah, what's this thread for?


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 1, 2014)

...it's the convo thread?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 1, 2014)

I see Dr. B is rockin' a pre-breast augmentation Tifa set...


----------



## Jimin (Aug 1, 2014)

Tifa Lockheart...

Maybe I should beat FFVII for the first time ever...


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 2, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I see Dr. B is rockin' a pre-breast augmentation Tifa set...



Yeah.

I mean, it's because I like the artstyle.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Aug 2, 2014)

In all honesty, the art style is really appealing.

Do you have one in Yuffie?


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 2, 2014)

Never found any other art in the same style or even anything by the same artist, as far as I know.


----------



## Krory (Aug 2, 2014)

I expected better from you, Boskov.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 4, 2014)

I thought this was kind of cool.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 4, 2014)

Oh man, I remember that article.

It's pretty neat.

Aesop sounds like he's rapping with a handful of marbles in his mouth, though.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 4, 2014)

Dr. Biscuit Kardashian said:


> Oh man, I remember that article.
> 
> It's pretty neat.
> 
> Aesop sounds like he's rapping with a handful of marbles in his mouth, though.



He really does. It's kind of neat to see how the further you go from "mainstream" for the most part, the further you go with the word count. I might like some of the songs, but a lot of rap is just the same words kind of strung together around beats with no real message.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 4, 2014)

Well, that's almost entirely (arguably, in my mind, entirely) true for any genre, though.

All that backpacker hip hop has some nice word choice, no doubt.  Sometimes they cover up not really being very good with a lot of words, but that's par for the course in the genre, I suppose.  Sometimes it gets a little too superfluous and verbose; a good balance is nice, at least for me.

Haiku d'Etat and Del the Funkee Homosapien strike a nice balance of clever rhyming and actual wordplay with catchiness and flow.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 4, 2014)

Dr. Biscuit Kardashian said:


> Well, that's almost entirely (arguably, in my mind, entirely) true for any genre, though.
> 
> All that backpacker hip hop has some nice word choice, no doubt.  Sometimes they cover up not really being very good with a lot of words, but that's par for the course in the genre, I suppose.  Sometimes it gets a little too superfluous and verbose; a good balance is nice, at least for me.
> 
> Haiku d'Etat and Del the Funkee Homosapien strike a nice balance of clever rhyming and actual wordplay with catchiness and flow.



Doom Tree, especially Dessa has some unique word choice. I think the slam poetry influences are really what help because I think Watsky has some background in that stuff too. 

And yeah, it's true of any genre, I guess. The songs that reach the masses will be the ones that kind of hit that lower middle ground.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 4, 2014)

Dessa is fantastic; her and POS are easily my favorites of Doomtree.

Not that a simple vocabulary is an hindrance, to say, since quite a lot of powerful music is fairly simple in lyric.  It's pretty easy to hide behind a wall of obfuscating word choice and laborious metaphor even when you don't really have much to say.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 4, 2014)

Dr. Biscuit Kardashian said:


> Dessa is fantastic; her and POS are easily my favorites of Doomtree.
> 
> Not that a simple vocabulary is an hindrance, to say, since quite a lot of powerful music is fairly simple in lyric.  It's pretty easy to hide behind a wall of obfuscating word choice and laborious metaphor even when you don't really have much to say.



Yeah, I named this thread after a song POS was in! 

And yeah it's easy to hide behind big words some of the time, but it's also kind of odd to see how certain artists have changed their style to include less words all together. When I listen to something Drake did two of three years ago he was rapping through the whole song without pause. His last CD had so many tracks where it's just him repeating a line over the beat or where it's just a beat without him rapping at all.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 4, 2014)

Yes!  Wasn't all that fond of his latest, but POS is fantastic

It really is part of that marketing appeal; all these big artists, in order to stay signed to the luxurious label and all that entails, must basically take input from a bunch of suits.  Lyrical complexity?  Won't do.  Unusual musical phrasings?  No sir.  Unusual genres?  Not on my watch.

It's all just focus tested bullshit.

A friend shared a really interesting link on my FB recently about this:


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 4, 2014)

Dr. Biscuit Kardashian said:


> Yes!  Wasn't all that fond of his latest, but POS is fantastic
> 
> It really is part of that marketing appeal; all these big artists, in order to stay signed to the luxurious label and all that entails, must basically take input from a bunch of suits.  Lyrical complexity?  Won't do.  Unusual musical phrasings?  No sir.  Unusual genres?  Not on my watch.
> 
> ...



The indie music scene has come a long way thanks to You Tube. I remember when Lindsay Sterling was talking at her concert about how she was basically told there was no market for her music (that's why she lost the contest apparently). And now here she is marketing it.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 4, 2014)

I welcome the day things like SoundCloud and BandCamp usher in a new era for recording artists and these monoliths can't cope.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 4, 2014)

Dr. Biscuit Kardashian said:


> I welcome the day things like SoundCloud and BandCamp usher in a new era for recording artists and these monoliths can't cope.



Well that article you linked is pretty true and I didn't really think about it before that. TV really has fought back against the issues it had at the start of this century. One of the things that's really odd is how generally awful network TV is. Most of the stuff I watch now isn't on network TV. Most of my news comes from non network services. Now it's like everyone is watching stuff like HBO, AMC, and FX for good TV. 

The music industry still is so unconcerned with talent and honestly the movie industry has some of the same issues when it comes to making films that are so behind the times and assume things about the audience.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 4, 2014)

I really do wonder what sets apart the TV industry from the Music and Movie industry that has allowed a rather surprising resurgence of great television to surface from the muck--and be met with such fervor and support.

It's pretty obvious that people are craving more intelligent and complex entertainment, as is evident from all these TV shows doing so well, so I wonder why the bigger Music and Movie studios aren't following suit.   I mean, obviously they are making money now, but both are notoriously shortsighted.


----------



## Lord Yu (Aug 4, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Well that article you linked is pretty true and I didn't really think about it before that. TV really has fought back against the issues it had at the start of this century. One of the things that's really odd is how generally awful network TV is. Most of the stuff I watch now isn't on network TV. Most of my news comes from non network services. Now it's like everyone is watching stuff like HBO, AMC, and FX for good TV.
> 
> The music industry still is so unconcerned with talent and honestly the movie industry has some of the same issues when it comes to making films that are so behind the times and assume things about the audience.



Hannibal is still on NBC. One of the best shows on TV period.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 4, 2014)

Dr. Biscuit Kardashian said:


> I really do wonder what sets apart the TV industry from the Music and Movie industry that has allowed a rather surprising resurgence of great television to surface from the muck--and be met with such fervor and support.
> 
> It's pretty obvious that people are craving more intelligent and complex entertainment, as is evident from all these TV shows doing so well, so I wonder why the bigger Music and Movie studios aren't following suit.   I mean, obviously they are making money now, but both are notoriously shortsighted.



Cognitive dissonance.



Lord Yu said:


> Hannibal is still on NBC. One of the best shows on TV period.



Since I'm off all week I might load that up on the tablet and watch it.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 4, 2014)

I'm certainly no expert on TV, but Hannibal is one of the best shows TV has seen in a long, long time, and probably one of the best shot series I've ever seen.  I could talk just about the framing of the episodes, man.


----------



## Nordstrom (Aug 4, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I see Dr. B is rockin' a post-breast augmentation Tifa set...



Fix'd.



Dr. Biscuit Kardashian said:


> Yes!  Wasn't all that fond of his latest, but POS is fantastic
> 
> It really is part of that marketing appeal; all these big artists, in order to stay signed to the luxurious label and all that entails, must basically take input from a bunch of suits.  Lyrical complexity?  Won't do.  Unusual musical phrasings?  No sir.  Unusual genres?  Not on my watch.
> 
> ...



Welcome to "Why the Hallyu wave, Kyoto pop and most new world pop culture sucks horribly and Eurotrash is pop's last stand and stronghold 101".



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Well that article you linked is pretty true and I didn't really think about it before that. TV really has fought back against the issues it had at the start of this century. One of the things that's really odd is how generally awful network TV is. Most of the stuff I watch now isn't on network TV. Most of my news comes from non network services. Now it's like everyone is watching stuff like HBO, AMC, and FX for good TV.
> 
> The music industry still is so unconcerned with talent and honestly the movie industry has some of the same issues when it comes to making films that are so behind the times and assume things about the audience.



Creativity, standing out and all that crap execs can't stand because it makes less money since there are no fangirls around.



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Cognitive dissonance.
> 
> 
> 
> Since I'm off all week I might load that up on the tablet and watch it.



More like "lack of variety, openness and trying a bit of everything".

Also, found something awesome... CTK, this is what my story's going for!


*Spoiler*: __ 



GENDERBENT TWILIGHT! 




Yup, those are genderbent Jacob, Bella and Edward (or Jacky, Bill and Elise )


----------



## Tyrael (Aug 4, 2014)

Y'all don't get the right to talk about great TV 'till you've watched Psychoville/Inside No.9. 

Plus the original series of Utopia was amazing, need to get on board with the 2nd series still.



Sleipnyr said:


> Fix'd.



I feel like you missed the joke.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 4, 2014)

I have very little interest pop music, regardless of where it comes from, so I'm not sure what that means.  Pop music is still largely maligned, no matter where it comes from, so I'm not really sure what you mean.

And lol.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Aug 4, 2014)

I find I prefer Jpop and Kpop and Europop music over English pop music, solely because I can't understand how vapid and trashy the lyrics are while listening to them.


----------



## Nordstrom (Aug 4, 2014)

Tyrael said:


> Y'all don't get the right to talk about great TV 'till you've watched Psychoville/Inside No.9.
> 
> Plus the original series of Utopia was amazing, need to get on board with the 2nd series still.
> 
> I feel like you missed the joke.



I didn't, but I just wanted to do that 



Dr. Biscuit Kardashian said:


> I have very little interest pop music, regardless of where it comes from, so I'm not sure what that means.  Pop music is still largely maligned, no matter where it comes from, so I'm not really sure what you mean.
> 
> And lol.



The problem is that pop should catch all, yet it always leaves part of the demographic in the dark.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 5, 2014)

Dr. Biscuit Kardashian said:


> I have very little interest pop music, regardless of where it comes from, so I'm not sure what that means.  Pop music is still largely maligned, no matter where it comes from, so I'm not really sure what you mean.
> 
> And lol.



Some pop is alright, but I'm leaning toward a more folk rock. I don't know what to call it. I listen to stuff like Camera Obscura and other weird stuff.


----------



## Krory (Aug 5, 2014)

Tyrael said:


> I feel like you missed the joke.



This is pretty much all I took from this conversation.

Now excuse me while I go back to watching my crappy Criminal Minds.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 5, 2014)

Camera Obscura is pretty neat.  

I feel like I've asked you this before, CTK, but have you heard or listened to The Dear Hunter?  I think you have.  Even if you have, listen to them again.


----------



## OodboO (Aug 5, 2014)

Advertising Mister "Naruto" Preliminaries held in _House of Uzumaki_ at the moment in every convo thread on Naruto Forums...

click -> 

And welcome. ​


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Aug 5, 2014)

I like OodboO's everything.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 5, 2014)

Dr. Biscuit Kardashian said:


> Camera Obscura is pretty neat.
> 
> I feel like I've asked you this before, CTK, but have you heard or listened to The Dear Hunter?  I think you have.  Even if you have, listen to them again.



Can't say that I have, I'm going to note that one down as something to check out, though. 

I know they're Electronic Pop, but I've been listening to a lot of Chvrches too. And old Brand New.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 5, 2014)

You definitely, definitely should.  If you're familiar with them, it's the singer from _The Receiving End of Sirens_ first album; really fantastic, lush and emotive stuff.

I like Chvrches, too, though not quite up to hype levels.  Never got on the Lorde train, though.  

The Devil and God are Raging Inside of Me is still great, honestly.  My girlfriend still likes Daisy and Deja Entendu, too.


----------



## Tyrael (Aug 5, 2014)

Chvrches are catchy and fun - I'm not surprised they are popular, but I am surprised there's any significant hype about them.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 5, 2014)

The lead singer practically has an internet cult following her.


----------



## Lord Yu (Aug 5, 2014)

I don't get new music outside of what I might find digging on bandcamp or youtube.

So fucking hipster.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 6, 2014)

Pfff

How about picking random dollar CDs at hole-in-the-wall record shops or asking the clerk for recommendations?  /hipster contest

I'm re-reading that collection of Lovecraft stories because of the interest in The Mountains of Madness Movie... and damn, I don't really see how they're gonna pull it off in movie format (the people getting all hubbub, myself included, initially, about the rating are lol) simply because I don't think the atmosphere will work quite as well.

I love Lovecraft, but what made his work so famous was a combination of timing, his interesting in science, geography and folklore as well as a deeply disturbed imagination; the stories came at a time when there was much still hidden from the Western hemisphere in the world, places still unexplored or ignored, tucked away in dense jungles or Arctic tundras, and there was a real sense of unknown that Lovecraft tapped into with these stories--case in point, At the Mountains of Madness.  The book has all these minor, dry details and the descriptions come in such a Science Journal dialect and pacing that it works really well with the desired atmosphere.  Almost nothing happens directly to the reader; and, in order for the movie to capture the same feeling, almost nothing could happen on screen.

I just don't know if movie studios have the grapes to not just show all the carnage on screen so they could sell tickets to loud, annoying teenagers who sit behind me, kick my seat and spill their soda under my feet and make vacuous comments through the entire film.


----------



## Tyrael (Aug 6, 2014)

Well the key to adapting Lovecraft has to be identifying how to best recreating the atmosphere and paranoia and madness of his work in that particular medium, then taking whatever liberties with the actual stories and characters that will allow you to do so.

What we'll probably end up with will be a fairly bland horror with more interesting than usual, but underused, ideas. I trust del Toro, but I don't trust the folks who are bankrolling him nor the audience it is aimed at.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 6, 2014)

Dr. Biscuit Kardashian said:


> You definitely, definitely should.  If you're familiar with them, it's the singer from _The Receiving End of Sirens_ first album; really fantastic, lush and emotive stuff.
> 
> I like Chvrches, too, though not quite up to hype levels.  Never got on the Lorde train, though.
> 
> The Devil and God are Raging Inside of Me is still great, honestly.  My girlfriend still likes Daisy and Deja Entendu, too.



Daisy is a favorite of mine, but that demo album with all of the untitled tracks is something that I listen to pretty often today. I think it was because of one of the songs I gave Morrisey a try. 

Chvrches started out for me when I heard them on spotify or something like that I checked more of their stuff out. This was right before Lauren Mayberry penned that piece about online misogyny that kind of boosted her and the band up. I'm not really shocked that they're popular, they had kind of a grassroots build up, but what's shocking is how much others are taking notice. They're doing songs for movies and that shit with Linkin Park a few weeks back is a sign that they're considered relevant. 

Where as with some people who started off on their own, like Lindsay Sterling, they're still not considered relevant.  



Dr. Biscuit Kardashian said:


> Pfff
> 
> How about picking random dollar CDs at hole-in-the-wall record shops or asking the clerk for recommendations?  /hipster contest
> 
> ...



I think you kind of have to wonder are audiences in the head-space where the unknown of this type will affect them in the same way it would have back then. I don't think so. I think there will have to be some really creative film making to stay true to the book and capture the tone of it without making this thing into a slasher or something dumb of the sort. 

I really need to read Mountains again, I remember it being good and Lovecraft is a huge inspiration for the stuff I'm (supposed to be) writing.


----------



## Tyrael (Aug 6, 2014)

I have to say, back on the Chvrches thing, props to Lauren for keeping her accent when she sings, so many Scottish singers - especially those known outside of Scotland - kill their accent completely when they sing.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 6, 2014)

Lovecraft - I honestly don't think there's ever been a good adaptation of his works... ever?  I'm drawing a blank, here; the only one that was vaguely enjoyable, in my experience, was the Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth game, oddly enough.

I'm excited because it's Del Toro doing the movie, but there's just no way we're gonna see a being of non-euclidean geometry in the movies.

Chvrches - That is actually impressive, especially because they either had the gall to stand up to their manager/marketer and keep it, or that it simply went unnoticed.  It tends to get tagged as a niche or folk act when they do that, regardless of where they come from.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 6, 2014)

Dr. Biscuit Kardashian said:


> Lovecraft - I honestly don't think there's ever been a good adaptation of his works... ever?  I'm drawing a blank, here; the only one that was vaguely enjoyable, in my experience, was the Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth game, oddly enough.
> 
> I'm excited because it's Del Toro doing the movie, but there's just no way we're gonna see a being of non-euclidean geometry in the movies.
> 
> Chvrches - That is actually impressive, especially because they either had the gall to stand up to their manager/marketer and keep it, or that it simply went unnoticed.  It tends to get tagged as a niche or folk act when they do that, regardless of where they come from.



I think even things based on his words don't typical capture the feel (I'm not even trying for that). I've never played any of the games except the board game and Call of Cthulhu the RPG. 

Del Toro can be trusted to handle the movie appropriately, really. But I expect it will be something like World War Z where they have to put the main character in the action more or just invent a character to be main. 

Well Lauren and the rest of the group have a personal presence on their Facebook. You can get responses from them and all of that stuff. And that was what kind of caused the issue, there were so many weird comments on their wall that Lauren addressed it in an article she wrote and it kind of got viral. 

I don't know if their management really could get them to take it down or make things less accessible at this point because it's part of what makes them them.


----------



## Tyrael (Aug 6, 2014)

Dr. Biscuit Kardashian said:


> Lovecraft - I honestly don't think there's ever been a good adaptation of his works... ever?  I'm drawing a blank, here; the only one that was vaguely enjoyable, in my experience, was the Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth game, oddly enough.
> 
> I'm excited because it's Del Toro doing the movie, but there's just no way we're gonna see a being of non-euclidean geometry in the movies.



I've not specifically read AMoM, but do we actually "see" them in the story, or is it one of those times that Lovecraft talks about how indescribable these things intrinsically are? I'm assuming it's the latter.



> Chvrches - That is actually impressive, especially because they either had the gall to stand up to their manager/marketer and keep it, or that it simply went unnoticed.  It tends to get tagged as a niche or folk act when they do that, regardless of where they come from.



To be fair, most Scots go a bit English/American because it's what we're used to hearing in music.

But I'm assuming that since her voice was one of the big appeals of their music, the studio folks were smart enough not to ask her to try and sing differently when they signed?


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 6, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I think even things based on his words don't typical capture the feel (I'm not even trying for that). I've never played any of the games except the board game and Call of Cthulhu the RPG.
> 
> Del Toro can be trusted to handle the movie appropriately, really. But I expect it will be something like World War Z where they have to put the main character in the action more or just invent a character to be main.



I'm excited to see the movie just on the basis of it being a big budget movie about Lovecraft from a proven, competent director with an understanding and appreciation of the source material.  

The PC/Xbox game is pretty damn good, all things considered.

Well, the first half is.



> Well Lauren and the rest of the group have a personal presence on their Facebook. You can get responses from them and all of that stuff. And that was what kind of caused the issue, there were so many weird comments on their wall that Lauren addressed it in an article she wrote and it kind of got viral.
> 
> I don't know if their management really could get them to take it down or make things less accessible at this point because it's part of what makes them them.



Yeah, I remember the whole ordeal going down.  

Glad they did; more power to them for being who they are, musically and socially.



Tyrael said:


> I've not specifically read AMoM, but do we actually "see" them in the story, or is it one of those times that Lovecraft talks about how indescribable these things intrinsically are? I'm assuming it's the latter.



There are these lifeforms, which are vaguely 'Cthulhu-ian', that are trapped in the ice where they are exploring, but they are not any of the actual Elder Beings or anything.  Danforth (the guy who the narrator is with for most of the story) sees something just as the story ends, from his plane, that makes him lose his shit in a very Lovecraftian kind of way, but, again, it's not shown or described.

I just can't see things like in a movie without them being hideously cheesy.




> To be fair, most Scots go a bit English/American because it's what we're used to hearing in music.
> 
> But I'm assuming that since her voice was one of the big appeals of their music, the studio folks were smart enough not to ask her to try and sing differently when they signed?



Even still; the amount of Scottish bands with actual Scottish accents in their music that aren't folk related is pretty small.  I can see why, both from emulation and marketing, but it's sill cool.  I hate it when a band will sing in English when it's not their native language, especially because I'd rather hear it natively.

It might have been, or since they were such an underground band at the time, no one really cared, and as they gained fame, nobody really cared to challenge the accent.  Either way, it worked for them, thankfully.


----------



## Tyrael (Aug 6, 2014)

So yeah, it's probably best not to show the non-euclidean creatures on screen.

I dunno about the language things - I remember reading an interview with a German band who sung in English because they felt like the sound of German didn't work with their music. Different languages have their own rhythms and flows, and choosing a particular language as a creative choice is something that I can get behind. Like I wish Dessa would do another rap in Spanish, it really suited her voice.

Singing in English because of marketing execs or because it's easier to reach a bigger audience is a real shame though, yeah.

You're right that Scottish bands singing with a Scottish accent tends to lend them pigeonholed into a folk-y niche, but for what it's worth I'd quite like there to be a bit more Scottish folk-pop out there. Seems to have been something that died with the 80s.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 6, 2014)

Well, you can't really make something like that work, anyways. 

As you know, the whole point of Lovecraftian beings is their propensity to drive us mortals insane due to our inability to comprehend their very being, and the horrors of cosmic beings so powerful and beyond our comprehension we are nothing more than bacteria in their eyes. This, apparently, translates to a humanoid with bat wings and a squid for a head.

The works of H.R. Giger, however, are pretty neat interpretations.

That's entirely true, and a lot of countries are innately bilingual, so it's something that has just come with globalization.  If it works, it works.  And if that's how the band wants the music to be heard, that's how it should be heard.  

However, a lot of languages, to me, sound more entertaining when sung.  I've never, honestly ever, been a vocally focused music listener, so I'm enamored when a band like PFM sings in Italian and did not really care for their reworked album in English.  Swedish and Italian, especially, are melodic sounding languages that sound great in certain contexts. 

It really did, didn't it?  Stuff like Clannad kind of just faded away.  I guess the thing is now is Folk Punk, though.

Another Dessa fan, too.  Damn.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Sep 5, 2014)

How would you even show a 4+Dimensional being on a 2 Dimensional screen besides having a mass of something appear that gives everyone an acid trip?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 5, 2014)




----------



## Nordstrom (Sep 5, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> How would you even show a 4+Dimensional being on a 2 Dimensional screen besides having a mass of something appear that gives everyone an acid trip?



That guess is as good as any...


----------



## Buskuv (Sep 8, 2014)

You wouldn't.

Which is why we're going to hope for some really convincing off-screen shenanigans at best.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 8, 2014)

I hope they capture the racism of Lovecraft.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Sep 25, 2014)

Do you ever get in fights with a Cardboard Tube Samurai?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 25, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Do you ever get in fights with a Cardboard Tube Samurai?



Um, nope. **


----------



## Nordstrom (Sep 25, 2014)

I should've told CTK that I got an account at Mythweavers


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 25, 2014)

I usually avoid myth weavers. I pretty much play exclusively on Paizo's site.


----------



## Nordstrom (Sep 25, 2014)

Why so? It seems like a good place. Also inform me. I've got some free time left before December starts and I need to burn it off (and there are no good non Korean MMORPGs).


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 25, 2014)

Nordstrom said:


> Why so? It seems like a good place. Also inform me. I've got some free time left before December starts and I need to burn it off (and there are no good non Korean MMORPGs).



I don't really remember. I think it has to do with the kind of RPs that tend to be on there. I hate having to use maps and shit like that and it makes it hard for me to post from the tablet. I prefer things where it's just straight text. 

Evil Moogle's game here is a good example, but there's too many people in that game as this wiki shows: 

I'm in a couple of games right now on Paizo and though it's really hard to assure you get picked there seems to be more quality control on who gets in.


----------



## Nordstrom (Sep 25, 2014)

What is Paizo?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 25, 2014)

The company that makes Pathfinder.


----------



## Nordstrom (Sep 25, 2014)

So they are board games or do they have an online board?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 25, 2014)

Nordstrom said:


> So they are board games or do they have an online board?



It's not really a board game, it's like Dungeons and Dragons with some tweaks. They created a world and write some premade adventures and classes for the game. It's my game of choice, so that forum makes sense because it's mostly what's played.


----------



## Nordstrom (Sep 25, 2014)

Do you have the address? Depending on the boredom, I might pour in with some of the unused stuff I still have around and haven't included in my stories just yet.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 25, 2014)

These are the recruitment threads. 



Then there is the rules for the game:


----------



## Nordstrom (Sep 25, 2014)

Thanks. I'll look into them.


----------



## Buskuv (Oct 8, 2014)

Damn, LD.

Damn.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Oct 8, 2014)

What is it?


----------



## αshɘs (Oct 9, 2014)

Man, wasn't this like the nth time Murakami was considered favorite for the Nobel prize, only to end up not getting it?


----------



## Buskuv (Oct 9, 2014)

Wait, really?

A damn shame.


----------



## αshɘs (Oct 9, 2014)

Yeah, Patrick Modiano got it.


----------



## Buskuv (Oct 27, 2014)

You know that gnawing feeling when you feel inadequate to do something but feel compelled and almost required to do it anyways?

I can't escape that with writing.  

I haven't done much serious writing at all in years, but I keep feeling the need do just that, even if I don't really like anything thing that ends up dumped on the page.  What a conundrum.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Oct 28, 2014)

Writing without a concrete purpose has it's merits. A lot of the time it can be more fearless because you don't plan on anyone ever seeing it.


----------



## Risyth (Oct 28, 2014)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> You know that gnawing feeling when you feel inadequate to do something but feel compelled and almost required to do it anyways?
> 
> I can't escape that with writing.
> 
> I haven't done much serious writing at all in years, but I keep feeling the need do just that, even if I don't really like anything thing that ends up dumped on the page.  What a conundrum.



*If you're reasonable and dissatisfied with what you're writing, chances are others won't be either.

On the other hand, if you're a perfectionist and dissatisfied chances are what you're writing'll be good enough for most reasonable people.

In my opinion, you shouldn't get too caught up in making everything perfect. Not on the first run-through at least.


^And hey, CTK.*


----------



## Buskuv (Oct 28, 2014)

I used to do a lot more directionless, almost 'doodling' kind of writing.

Might be a good pick up.

And, I'm a perfectionist at heart, just a lazy one.  It just leads to me not doing anything, rather than doing things over and over again in order to make them perfect.


----------



## Risyth (Oct 28, 2014)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I used to do a lot more directionless, almost 'doodling' kind of writing.
> 
> Might be a good pick up.
> 
> And, I'm a perfectionist at heart, just a lazy one.  It just leads to me not doing anything, rather than doing things over and over again in order to make them perfect.



*Directionless like free-writing? Or idea-drafts? There's nothing wrong with that. Even if it's a cohesive novel you're planning on writing, those "doodles" can be salvaged and made interconnecting parts of the whole, so long as the concept remains the same throughout.

Thanks, and it sounded to me like your biggest enemy was yourself in this, and I was going to say to accept imperfection because it's more convenient--then perfect what you don't like, or get it as close as possible to being perfect...

...but are you saying if you have an idea and it doesn't seem perfect, you drop it right then? Or that you stall out when you can't put a perfect idea to words? I've just come out of a three-year slump, myself, so I think I understand how you're feeling, and I think I might be able to help.*


----------



## Nordstrom (Oct 28, 2014)

Risyth said:


> *If you're reasonable and dissatisfied with what you're writing, chances are others won't be either.
> 
> On the other hand, if you're a perfectionist and dissatisfied chances are what you're writing'll be good enough for most reasonable people.
> 
> ...



Something I've learned is that usually, the best way to get this off your chest is to write a crack fic revolving around the stuff you have. If it doesn't turns out crackish, then you may be able to salvage a plot from all those "scrap" parts. I've made an spin off story based on that alone.


----------



## Risyth (Oct 28, 2014)

Nordstrom said:


> Something I've learned is that usually, the best way to get this off your chest is to write a crack fic revolving around the stuff you have. If it doesn't turns out crackish, then you may be able to salvage a plot from all those "scrap" parts. I've made an spin off story based on that alone.



*I'm sorry, but what's a crack fic?*


----------



## Buskuv (Nov 7, 2014)

A fic that has a very tenuous basis on its original fiction.

IE, shit like Indiana Jones x Voldermort slash fics.

Dark, dark corners of the internet.

----

I found a trove of old sci-fi collections in my work the other day, and I'm going to take them all home because they don't want to work with them.  Baller.


----------



## Nordstrom (Nov 7, 2014)

Risyth said:


> *I'm sorry, but what's a crack fic?*



Essentially, a fanfic that throws away all character and rules and uses them as placeholders for a parody of some sort.

TL;DR Ichigo Kurosaki fashion model and shit like that.



Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> A fic that has a very tenuous basis on its original fiction.
> 
> IE, shit like Indiana Jones x Voldermort slash fics.
> 
> ...



Yeah, pretty much. Hell, I've been able to salvage plot tickets from PORN VIDEOS alone. There's very little to, but you can still find some useful scraps in even THOSE videos. I call it "plot point scavenging" and feel like an scavenger scavenging valuables at a junk yard doing it 

Also, I wish in my old job there were some fiction books. The best I could manage was stealing an old romantic novella collection from my mother when I was back home.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Nov 17, 2014)

I feel like I should throw out any idea inspired by a porn video on principle.  Or just in case someone asked what inspired my story, so I don't have to lie to my fans.


----------



## Buskuv (Dec 31, 2014)

Quiet but not forgotten.

How's the new year find everyone?


----------



## Nordstrom (Dec 31, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> I feel like I should throw out any idea inspired by a porn video on principle.  Or just in case someone asked what inspired my story, so I don't have to lie to my fans.



Mind sharing it with us?


----------



## Solar (Dec 31, 2014)

I don't think someone should throw out any idea just because they were inspired from less than savory places.


----------



## Buskuv (Dec 31, 2014)

But why not?


----------



## Solar (Dec 31, 2014)

Kiryuin Ragyou said:


> But why not?



Well, just because the thing that inspired your idea is unsavory that doesn't mean that your execution of it will be like that either. I think it would be a funny story more than anything else. A little weird but nothing most people wouldn't get over really quickly.


----------



## Buskuv (Dec 31, 2014)

Oh, I'm just curious.

I think, largely, any source of inspiration is legitimate and has merit to it; it has very much more to do with the skill and imagination of the writer than what's being talked about or detailed.  

Sometimes I like glorious, wry descriptions of the mundane than great, vivid descriptions of the extraordinary.

And, trust me, I'm certainly a fan of the squalid, grotesque and unsavory in my writing.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Jan 4, 2015)

Nordstrom said:


> Mind sharing it with us?



I don't have a story inspired by porn.


----------



## Buskuv (Jan 4, 2015)

You should write one.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 4, 2015)

Most of the porn people tend to watch isn't the story kind of stuff you see on Cinemax and the like. The sex that happens in porn is 90% of the time so unrealistic that it's not worth putting into the story unless you want to make people go "what the fuck?". 

One of my biggest issues with sex in some of the novels I've read is that every character seems to come out of nowhere and hop into bed and be this sex god.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Jan 5, 2015)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> You should write one.



That sounds like a prompt for the next flash fiction.


----------



## kire (Jan 9, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Most of the porn people tend to watch isn't the story kind of stuff you see on Cinemax and the like. The sex that happens in porn is 90% of the time so unrealistic that it's not worth putting into the story unless you want to make people go "what the fuck?".
> 
> One of my biggest issues with sex in some of the novels I've read is that every character seems to come out of nowhere and hop into bed and be this sex god.



Lol I'm  glad I haven't read any of those.   Usually the books I read are about something, have a storyline, then some sexy sexy thrown in.


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 10, 2015)

I was glancing through Patrick Rothfuss ratings, after seeing his name pop up in like, thirty of my reads, and idk if anyone else's noticed this.


He's kind of a 5 stars slut. He's got fifty some pages of books read, of which only like, twenty five are even rated, of which 23 pages are either 4 or 5 stars, mostly 5.

Then you got a bunch of 3 stars, and then a couple of pages of one stars, and it seems mostly a damnation of an author who has transgressed on this or that pet peeve of him rather than judging the work as a whole. (There's this one comic he rates 1 star because two kids die in it, and apparently that's not allowed)


IDK. I kinda liked the King killer chronicles, but seeing the way he looks at other books had me wrinkling my nose. I myself only give Twilight tier books the 1 star.


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 10, 2015)

I mean, maybe he's trying to game the recommendation system , so it gives him personally more books like X and less like Y more efficiently, but I expected an author to be a little more respectful of other people's works, because binary shit like loads the overall average



Idk what to think about it. I mean, its not like hes the only person that does that


----------



## Tyrael (Jan 11, 2015)

I just wouldn't worry about it - that's a pretty minor thing.

It's safe to say that many of the best or your fave writers aren't good people, in a far more fundamental way than rating books they haven't finished. The obvious example is Lovecraft - I love his work, but he was undoubtedly a very racist man.

A person's moral character their ability to produce good writing have nothing to do with each other I'm afraid.


----------



## Buskuv (Jan 11, 2015)

Never meet your heroes, and that goes double for any tortured writers you like.


----------



## Lord Yu (Jan 11, 2015)

My jimmies still get rustled about when I met Michael Gira.  Man, was I stupid.


----------



## RisingVengeance (Jan 11, 2015)

Kind of makes me hesitant to want to meet S.M. Stirling, I'm a decent fan of his work and own a large chunk of his written works.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Jan 11, 2015)

I remember one of a friend's favorite authors turned out to be a terribly racist and bigoted man.  This someone didn't come across in his book series, so she was sad to learn it.


----------



## Buskuv (Jan 19, 2015)

So, despite my crippling inferiority complex, I've managed to keep a somewhat regular running 'sketch' journal on my laptop of ideas, short stories, flash fiction and self-deprecating musings and it's actually managed to be pretty helpful in getting ideas out of my head and onto paper.

The trick is to never show it to another person.

It's also interesting to re-read spur of the moment ideas or writing, or seeing stories or faux-philosophical waxings written in the heat of a dark or bizarre emotional state.  That, and at the end of the day, it's getting me to write on a semi-regular basis again, even if its bad, so that's good for me.

I guess.


----------



## Krory (Jan 19, 2015)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> The trick is to never show it to another person.



_Ohhhhhhhhhhh._


----------



## Firaea (Jan 19, 2015)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> So, despite my crippling inferiority complex, I've managed to keep a somewhat regular running 'sketch' journal on my laptop of ideas, short stories, flash fiction and self-deprecating musings and it's actually managed to be pretty helpful in getting ideas out of my head and onto paper.
> 
> *The trick is to never show it to another person.*
> 
> ...



Even in the absence of an external critic, the internal critic in me cripples anything I write so much that I haven't written anything in... many months.


----------



## Krory (Jan 19, 2015)

My last Flash Fiction entry is the last thing I wrote.


----------



## Risyth (Jan 19, 2015)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> So, despite my crippling inferiority complex, I've managed to keep a somewhat regular running 'sketch' journal on my laptop of ideas, short stories, flash fiction and self-deprecating musings and it's actually managed to be pretty helpful in getting ideas out of my head and onto paper.
> 
> The trick is to never show it to another person.
> 
> ...



*Hey, a semi-regular basis will come to a close eventually. No shame in not writing and sharing 50+ pages a day. *


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 19, 2015)

I share writing all of the time and it honestly keeps me going. I'll post snippets in Skype or Google Hangouts with friends to ask them if this sounds alright or just to show them what I've written that I kind of like. Now that I'm using Google Docs I can easily throw the link to what I'm working on up and let people comment. It's helped me to find issues in the story sooner before they become larger problems.


----------



## Buskuv (Jan 20, 2015)

Risyth said:


> *Hey, a semi-regular basis will come to a close eventually. No shame in not writing and sharing 50+ pages a day. *



No!

These are my dirty secrets!


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 20, 2015)

I always find it odd how the books I give the most shit to, like Hunted by Kevin Hearne, or Ancillary Justice, by whoever, are always the ones that get the most positive feedback

Go figure


----------



## Krory (Jan 20, 2015)

Banhammer said:


> I always find it odd how the books I give the most shit to, like Hunted by Kevin Hearne, or Ancillary Justice, by whoever, are always the ones that get the most positive feedback
> 
> Go figure



Maybe you're secretly a hipster.


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 20, 2015)

I give plenty of books great reviews. In fact, there's plenty of books I've bumped an extra star just because I reserve that rating for Twilight, Terry Goodkind and Ancillary Justice.

I never get a notification from any of the strongly reviewed. Just the takedowns.



People just like nastiness. Makes me feel dirty.


----------



## Risyth (Jan 20, 2015)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> No!
> 
> These are my dirty secrets!


*Everything comes out eventually. You know they'll go through it one day. 


@CTK: I can get why people do that, and that used to be me not even a year ago. Sometimes it's still hard to not share my writing, but it doesn't have to be with a lot of people, and not online either. Eventually, the feeling of just writing something I know is great is bliss in itself.*


----------



## Krory (Jan 20, 2015)

Banhammer said:


> I give plenty of books great reviews. In fact, there's plenty of books I've bumped an extra star just because I reserve that rating for Twilight, Terry Goodkind and Ancillary Justice.
> 
> I never get a notification from any of the strongly reviewed. Just the takedowns.
> 
> ...



Man, I don't even review things. Too much damn effort.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 20, 2015)

Risyth said:


> *Everything comes out eventually. You know they'll go through it one day.
> 
> 
> @CTK: I can get why people do that, and that used to be me not even a year ago. Sometimes it's still hard to not share my writing, but it doesn't have to be with a lot of people, and not online either. Eventually, the feeling of just writing something I know is great is bliss in itself.*



I post my writing all over in here and Reddit (you've seen some of it). I try my best to expose my stuff and get feedback on what I'm doing well. It's good for a confidence boost and for critique. I think for some writing is more person because it's a part of them, and it's a part of all of us, but I feel like what I'm doing isn't personal in that way.


----------



## Risyth (Jan 20, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I post my writing all over in here and Reddit (you've seen some of it). I try my best to expose my stuff and get feedback on what I'm doing well. It's good for a confidence boost and for critique. I think for some writing is more person because it's a part of them, and it's a part of all of us, but I feel like what I'm doing isn't personal in that way.



*I have seen some of it, yes. Not even sure how to navigate Reddit, though. 

It's always a good confidence boost, getting good feedback. I guess I just operate differently. Whenever I wanted feedback, it was concerning the characters, setting, or plot--usually to get some talking points for more ideas. ww 

What do you mean by "in that way"? I'm not sure how personal writing really is to me. I just know I'm not likely to share anything of mine, and I can see the finish line more and more with every chapter.*


----------



## Buskuv (Jan 20, 2015)

Risyth said:


> *Everything comes out eventually. You know they'll go through it one day. *



You mean when I die?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 20, 2015)

Yeah, but maybe we can make some money off this stuff while we're alive.


----------



## Risyth (Jan 21, 2015)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> You mean when I die?


*Yes    . 
*


----------



## Buskuv (Jan 21, 2015)

I wish.

Par for the course would just be reams of inane ramblings and snippets of stories and sketches of dialog and prose, rather than anything meaningful or marketable.  I write like a first year English student just got hooked on cocaine.


----------



## Krory (Jan 21, 2015)

Yeah, because inane ramblings _never_ get famous and/or published.


----------



## Mist Puppet (Jan 21, 2015)

how do you guys outline your stories?

I usually write by the seat of my pants with only like a vague idea of what i want my story to be (usually just tone + a collection of cool scenes and dialogue that sound way better in my head), but I feel like if I don't have some sort of plan, I'll write myself into a corner later on in the story.


----------



## Krory (Jan 21, 2015)

Mist Puppet said:


> how do you guys outline your stories?
> 
> I usually write by the seat of my pants with only like a vague idea of what i want my story to be (usually just tone + a collection of cool scenes and dialogue that sound way better in my head), but I feel like if I don't have some sort of plan, I'll write myself into a corner later on in the story.



Pretty much the reason I _don't_ write. I overthink it and before I even get started on anything I get paranoid about that or about inconsistencies and then while trying to think over that, I end up changing something which forces the need to change so much more and then I just quit until some new ideas crosses my mind and do the whole thing over again. :33


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 21, 2015)

I think of where I wanna go and I go there till the going's done.

It's probably the reason why I rarely get far


----------



## Nordstrom (Jan 21, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Most of the porn people tend to watch isn't the story kind of stuff you see on Cinemax and the like. The sex that happens in porn is 90% of the time so unrealistic that it's not worth putting into the story unless you want to make people go "what the fuck?".
> 
> One of my biggest issues with sex in some of the novels I've read is that every character seems to come out of nowhere and hop into bed and be this sex god.



I try to keep it vague... Most of the time anyways...



Mist Puppet said:


> how do you guys outline your stories?
> 
> I usually write by the seat of my pants with only like a vague idea of what i want my story to be (usually just tone + a collection of cool scenes and dialogue that sound way better in my head), but I feel like if I don't have some sort of plan, I'll write myself into a corner later on in the story.



I do the opposite. I plan everything, leading to my works lagging in development hell (fuck you TVTropes!) and me planning everything as if it were a Soyuz rocket's launch protocol.



krory said:


> Pretty much the reason I _don't_ write. I overthink it and before I even get started on anything I get paranoid about that or about inconsistencies and then while trying to think over that, I end up changing something which forces the need to change so much more and then I just quit until some new ideas crosses my mind and do the whole thing over again. :33



I suffer from that too, which is why I usually plan everything before writing it. Even when low on time (as with Cruciator) I usually stay up all night brainstorming with a few friends and then write the plot down before starting the story.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 21, 2015)

Mist Puppet said:


> how do you guys outline your stories?
> 
> I usually write by the seat of my pants with only like a vague idea of what i want my story to be (usually just tone + a collection of cool scenes and dialogue that sound way better in my head), but I feel like if I don't have some sort of plan, I'll write myself into a corner later on in the story.



I never really do a proper outline. I have vague document that has some things noted in for me to use later.


----------



## Risyth (Jan 22, 2015)

*Yep, what Nordstrom said. I used to be a little like you except I also planned out some things in my head weeks or months in advance and kept them remembered. Now I've started to write my chapters' previews so I don't forget anything at all, and my "outlines" can pass for detailed, long novels themselves.*


----------



## Bungee Gum (Jan 23, 2015)

Hello hello, never posted here, but I thought maybe someone could help me with a little problem I have. 

In the Call of Cluthlu, there is written a line that goes;

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Then, very softly and slowly, the acre-great lintel began to give inward            at the top; and they saw that it was balauced 

[/FONT]
  that last word, Balauced. What does it mean? I can't find any record of it anywhere, or  what it means?


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Jan 23, 2015)

Probably meant "bala*n*ced"


----------



## Buskuv (Jan 23, 2015)

Goova said:


> Hello hello, never posted here, but I thought maybe someone could help me with a little problem I have.
> 
> In the Call of Cluthlu, there is written a line that goes;
> 
> ...



Depending on which collection or publishing you have, Lovecraft's stories were notoriously poorly edited, and had a myriad of simple, egregious mistakes and weird omissions.

It's most definitely that.


----------



## Patchouli (Jan 23, 2015)

I've holed myself up for the last few days, just writing a ton of history for a world I'll likely never write a single chapter for.

Have done this so many times in the past. 

Build a world --> build a history --> come up with the history of the different races that'd fit in that setting (generally generic fantasy species drawn from European folklore, then altered) --> come up with some key characters --> into the bin, never to be seen again.

I really should follow through on actually writing a story set in one of these worlds.


----------



## Buskuv (Jan 23, 2015)

World building is too fun, though.

I often enjoy it more than actually crafting stories.


----------



## Krory (Jan 23, 2015)

The only thing I do anymore i make random characters.  Fuck world-building and languages and geography and biology and magicology and all that other crazy shit.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Jan 24, 2015)

Mist Puppet said:


> how do you guys outline your stories?
> 
> I usually write by the seat of my pants with only like a vague idea of what i want my story to be (usually just tone + a collection of cool scenes and dialogue that sound way better in my head), but I feel like if I don't have some sort of plan, I'll write myself into a corner later on in the story.



The more I outline, the more likely I am to fall into the trap of endless world building and plotting.  The story then becomes so nice I feel like I can never do it justice with my writing abilities, and it collects dust.  

The only stuff I get done are the vague idea and cool scenes I link together with a rough idea of what I want to happen.  Which can lead to corners if you're not careful, yes.


----------



## Risyth (Jan 25, 2015)

*I'm terrible at world-building. Or at least I know it doesn't really amount to much in the end. That's why I used to not like outlining: it was just too hard to do my envisioning justice when I actually took it to my story. Sort of like TPoW was saying.*


----------



## Nordstrom (Jan 25, 2015)

I do world building pretty much the same way as people do when making a videogame... You know... First characters, then going on into magic and analyzing which characters uses which, geographical areas and how they would change and finally, culture and languages.

The magic mechanics are pretty well developed because I only had to develop them once. I basically went with a free floating system after brainstorming for a while...


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 26, 2015)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> World building is too fun, though.
> 
> I often enjoy it more than actually crafting stories.



World building is fun because it's the discovery part of writing and there's very little risk in it. Most world building stuff will never reach and audience and it's just indulgent fun. A lot of time world building for other things will distract me from what I'm working on.


----------



## Risyth (Jan 26, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> World building is fun because it's the discovery part of writing and there's very little risk in it. Most world building stuff will never reach and audience and it's just indulgent fun. A lot of time world building for other things will distract me from what I'm working on.


*Yep, that's exactly it.*


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 27, 2015)

I have the problem of working on character voice and things without actually doing any work. I have a whole document of funny or interesting quotes that I have set up for characters to say, but I haven't actually gotten to the part where most of those things come up. But I keep thinking of them and writing them and putting them in there. 

Maybe out of all the stuff I've noted down in this document one of them has been used.


----------



## Risyth (Jan 28, 2015)

*I do all that stuff too except it's in my head and not in documents. Even worse. ww

At least I can remember the scenes they're involved in themselves. That's the most important part. As long as it's stored somewhere, you're safe. Especially if you want to write ahead and then work backwards or something. So you're doing it better than I am. *


----------



## RisingVengeance (Feb 28, 2015)

Finally got around to finishing _Allegiant_, the ending was totally not what I was expecting. I mean, I assumed it was going in that direction; but, I did not really think it would.

Alas, I'm finally finished reading the Divergent trilogy.


Also, on the note of writing, I'm working on my own story, it's just taking far longer than it should have initially. I mean, I only have 50,000 words to go.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 1, 2015)

[YOUTUBE]_8HGD80T9aE[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## kire (Mar 1, 2015)

RisingVengeance said:


> Finally got around to finishing _Allegiant_, the ending was totally not what I was expecting. I mean, I assumed it was going in that direction; but, I did not really think it would.
> 
> Alas, I'm finally finished reading the Divergent trilogy.
> 
> ...



The ending shocked me..I've only read it once because of the ending.
Did you read _Four_?


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Mar 5, 2015)

I finally decided to read my copy of _Heart of Darkness_ that I kept within eyesight since middle school, and now I can't find it.

Has this kind of thing ever happened to anyone else?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 5, 2015)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> I finally decided to read my copy of _Heart of Darkness_ that I kept within eyesight since middle school, and now I can't find it.
> 
> Has this kind of thing ever happened to anyone else?



I live in 2015. My books are all in my Kindle...and my phone, and laptop, and tablet, and desktop and any other device that I sign into the Kindle app or Cloud Reader on. 

Welcome to the twenty first century.  

I got the audio book of Gaiman's Trigger Warning last night. Been listening to it pretty slowly though.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Mar 15, 2015)

In the final _Harry Potter_ book, 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Harry kept the _Marauder's Map_ while he was on his quest to find Voldemort's horcruxes, to occasionally check the status of Ginny Weasley and his other friends.


Not only was that creepy and voyeuristic, but it was also foolish, as the map would have been far more valuable to the people within Hogwarts. Why did he not give it to Ginny before he left on his quest?


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Mar 30, 2015)




----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 30, 2015)

DemonDragonJ said:


> In the final _Harry Potter_ book,
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...



It's not really all that super creepy because he couldn't really see what the people were doing when they were on it. Plus, being creepy is kind of subjective. If a person likes someone else things that would be considered creepy for a stranger aren't.


----------



## Parallax (Mar 30, 2015)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> I finally decided to read my copy of _Heart of Darkness_ that I kept within eyesight since middle school, and now I can't find it.
> 
> Has this kind of thing ever happened to anyone else?



Quite often, I later realize it's cause I lend out my books quite liberally 

I've been reading a lot for class lately and I've read a lot of really interesting and rewarding novels so far.  I've also been reading Joyce in my free time and that's been incredibly worth my time so far.


----------



## Lucaniel (Mar 30, 2015)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Yeah, not a fan of the 'it's different because group a likes it more.'
> 
> What does magical realism even mean?  That's more nebulous than fantasy because fantasy makes no claims to its 'realism,' but makes magic 'realistic?"  And enough so to warrant an entire genre?
> 
> Mind you, I've never seen the term until now.



as far as i'm aware magical realism is incongruous and unexplained bits of magic occuring in a largely realistic or grounded setting

i.e. murakami or garcia marquez


----------



## Parallax (Mar 30, 2015)

That term is mad offensive to authors like Garcia-Marquez, that term is a term white academics decided to label the brown people stories coming in the 70s because they didn't know how else to label it.  Southern and Central American authors have rejected the term.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 30, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> as far as i'm aware magical realism is incongruous and unexplained bits of magic occuring in a largely realistic or grounded setting
> 
> i.e. murakami or garcia marquez



That description fits a lot of worlds if you change perspective. The problem with the definition is that it seems too specific. The magic in Winter's Tale is pretty all over the place, but people will call it Magical Realism because they want to avoid calling it what it is.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Mar 30, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> It's not really all that super creepy because he couldn't really see what the people were doing when they were on it. Plus, being creepy is kind of subjective. If a person likes someone else things that would be considered creepy for a stranger aren't.



That does not change the fact that the map would have been far more useful for Ginny, who actually was at Hogwarts at that time.


----------



## dream (Mar 30, 2015)

DemonDragonJ said:


> That does not change the fact that the map would have been far more useful for Ginny, who actually was at Hogwarts at that time.



What do you think she would have done with it?


----------



## Parallax (Mar 30, 2015)

>being creepy is subjective

this is something only someone creepy would say say


----------



## Lucaniel (Mar 30, 2015)

Parallax said:


> That term is mad offensive to authors like Garcia-Marquez, that term is a term white academics decided to label the brown people stories coming in the 70s because they didn't know how else to label it.  Southern and Central American authors have rejected the term.


i am unclear on how it's offensive 

furthermore the term "magical realism" in its current meaning was first applied to a south american author back in 1955



"angel flores" is not a white name  


Parallax said:


> >being creepy is subjective
> 
> this is something only someone creepy would say say


well in the context of ddj autistically asking if harry potter keeping tabs on his buddies when they're in mortal danger is "creepy"...


Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> That description fits a lot of worlds if you change perspective. The problem with the definition is that it seems too specific. The magic in Winter's Tale is pretty all over the place, but people will call it Magical Realism because they want to avoid calling it what it is.



the only "magic" in winter's tale is when hermione is brought back to life and the text hints that she was actually alive all along and paulina had simply hidden her away


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 30, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> i am unclear on how it's offensive
> 
> furthermore the term "magical realism" in its current meaning was first applied to a south american author back in 1955
> 
> ...



What about that dog horse and the cloud wall and shit? That's magic.


----------



## Lucaniel (Mar 30, 2015)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> What about that dog horse and the cloud wall and shit? That's magic.



cloud w...

okay hold on what are you talking about

i'm talking about the shakespeare play, a winter's tale


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 30, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> cloud w...
> 
> okay hold on what are you talking about
> 
> i'm talking about the shakespeare play, a winter's tale



Oh lol, I mean the 1983 novel that was recently made into a movie.


----------



## Lucaniel (Mar 30, 2015)

ah...


----------



## Parallax (Mar 30, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> i am unclear on how it's offensive
> 
> furthermore the term "magical realism" in its current meaning was first applied to a south american author back in 1955
> 
> ...





as well as this 





> It is easy to forget in the midst of the current posthumous multitudinous commemoration of Garc?a M?rquez’s life—his death is on the front page of newspapers throughout the world, President Juan Manuel Santos has declared him to be “the greatest Colombian of all time,” and he is mourned by figures as varied as Ian McEwan, Bollywood star Soha Ali Khan, and Ren? P?rez of reggaet?n group Calle 13—that one of the defining traits of Latin American narrative during the last twenty years has been the rejection of magical realism. For instance, Roberto Bola?o, unquestionably the most influential Latin American writer after the Boom, dared to criticize Garc?a M?rquez and magical realism: “Who are the official inheritors of Garc?a M?rquez? Isabel Allende, Laura Restrepo, Luis Sep?lveda, and others.  Every day Garc?a M?rquez seems to me to resemble more and more Santos Chocano or Lugones.” Bola?o, who was not beyond contradicting himself, would in other occasions, however, claim to admire the Colombian master, though never his disciples. For many younger Latin American writers magical realism became a clich?, more applicable to how outsiders imagined Latin America than to what the region actually was. One can add, in an ironic touch that reminds one of Garc?a M?rquez best known novel, that his country’s Ministry of Tourism, Foreign Investment, and Export Promotion is currently promoting tourism to the country with the slogan “Colombia is Magical Realism.”


----------



## Jena (Mar 31, 2015)

DemonDragonJ said:


> In the final _Harry Potter_ book,
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...



It's actually not creepy though. He literally has no other way of seeing if the people he cares about at Hogwarts (esp. Ginny) are still alive. The map is the only means he has to see if she has been killed.

Also: The map has high sentimentality value for Harry, he'd want to keep it with him even though it's useless. The most logical course? No, but Harry is a very emotional/sentimental person. The map wouldn't have been _that_ much more useful to Ginny anyway ? it would've helped her a bit but it's not like it would've made that much of a difference. If you want to get super deep into this shit you could also make the argument that Harry didn't want to give Ginny the map because that would've been sort of "encouraging" her to rebel and Harry didn't want her putting herself in harm's way unnecessarily. But that's reaching. In all likelihood Harry just has such a huge attachment to the map that the thought of giving it to someone else probably didn't even really cross his mind.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Apr 1, 2015)

In the second _Harry Potter_ book, when Lucius Malfoy demanded that Dumbledore step down from his position as headmaster of Hogwarts, Dumbledore willingly resigned, but, in the fifth book, when Cornelius Fudge attempted to arrest Dumbledore, Dumbledore resisted. Why did he respond differently to those situations? Was the situation much more dire in the fifth book, and he could not afford to be hindered in any way, or was it simply because, in the latter case, he was being arrested, rather than merely forced to resign?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 1, 2015)

DemonDragonJ said:


> In the second _Harry Potter_ book, when Lucius Malfoy demanded that Dumbledore step down from his position as headmaster of Hogwarts, Dumbledore willingly resigned, but, in the fifth book, when Cornelius Fudge attempted to arrest Dumbledore, Dumbledore resisted. Why did he respond differently to those situations? Was the situation much more dire in the fifth book, and he could not afford to be hindered in any way, or was it simply because, in the latter case, he was being arrested, rather than merely forced to resign?


You answered your own question. Would you quit your job that you could readily take back later? Sure. 

But would you go to a jail where things feed on your fears and sadness and literally drive you mad, where you're also deprived of magic and any kind of human interaction? 

I mean it's clear why he resisted.


----------



## Tyrael (Apr 2, 2015)

So all you UKers better get on Inside No. 9. Tonight's episode was probably the best piece of television I've ever seen.


----------



## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Apr 25, 2015)

lol i just realized this section is no longer called the literature department


----------



## Tyrael (May 8, 2015)

ᖷ⅃OWƎЯ said:


> lol i just realized this section is no longer called the literature department



  .


----------



## Buskuv (May 8, 2015)

nobody posts, either


----------



## Tyrael (May 9, 2015)

Tbf, that isn't the newest development in the world.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 9, 2015)

We post dammit.


----------



## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (May 9, 2015)

while we are on the subject of things that no longer are- whatever happened to dream brother?


----------



## Jimin (May 11, 2015)

The fayth stopped dreaming...


----------



## Buskuv (Jul 18, 2015)

I came across a slew of really old sci-fi serials at a book store the other day.

I'm talking like late 50s / early 60s.

I love this kind of stuff, and it's rekindled a longing for these stories and this kind of sci-fi.  It's colorful, incredibly creative and non-derivative.  I miss when fantasy and science fiction was creative and expansive, unique, not simply Tolkien or Space Operas.  

Yes, yes, exceptions to the rule and all that, but these are fun, short, and often have that vague melancholy and futility they seemed to love in the 60s.


----------



## Buskuv (Aug 23, 2015)

Been reading a shit ton of Cormack McCarthy lately.

Some of it I've already read, years ago, and others I've never had the chance, but it's really helped solidify that Southern Gothic literature fetish I have; it started way back in high school with people like Flannery O'Connor but it's just kept going.

It's hard to pinpoint why but a certain resonating with a genre so incredibly mired in haunting folk tales.


----------



## Magic (Oct 12, 2015)

Been reading old scifi by this Andre Norton chick. Damn, never thought of how it was like, to be a human girl lusting for Elven dick before. It's weird how it has magic, yet science fiction concepts.

The blend is good.


----------



## Catamount (Oct 13, 2015)

Hey there.

*Lets revive reading club!
*
I suggest Kino no Tabi as it's a perfect novel to start with.
*
Please join  
*
See you there, lovely bookworms <3


----------



## Mider T (Oct 17, 2015)

Is this thread where this  came from?


----------



## Tyrael (Dec 3, 2015)

So Pratchett wrote a short story in the style of Lovecraft about christmas cards, and goddamn is it magnificent.


----------



## Jimin (Dec 14, 2015)

How do you people maintain the energy to finish really long works?


----------



## choco bao bao (Dec 14, 2015)

Depends whether it's gold or not 
If it is I suppose you're so caught up in the plot/language/world/characters that you crave to find out more or want to know what happens in the end.


----------



## Robin (Dec 14, 2015)

If I get to ch. 2 of any fiction book, I'll make it to the end


----------



## Jimin (Dec 15, 2015)

I've already seen the TV show of the novel. It's been pretty good so far but there's still a lot left.


----------



## choco bao bao (Dec 15, 2015)

Edward Cullen said:


> I've already seen the TV show of the novel. It's been pretty good so far but there's still a lot left.


Bought this when I was in Beijing 4 years ago. Yet to flip open the cover


----------



## Rapidus (Dec 21, 2015)

Edward Cullen said:


> How do you people maintain the energy to finish really long works?



It's really hard to say how anyone really does it.  I believe it has a lot to do with the motivation and determination to get any kind of project/work done. I am shameful to admit it, but I have started plenty of projects that I ended up on putting on the shelf because I either lost the motivation for it, or just didn't seem to be into it anymore. I mean, there are several potential great novel ideas unfinished ? and in their brainstorming stage, might I add ? in my writing folder on my computer. 

So, I guess, all-in-all, if you're willing to stick with it, you'll be able to finish a project. It's all depending on dedication and motivation.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (May 30, 2016)

I can count the number of books I've started and didn't finish on one finger.  Provided it wasn't at someone's house and I lost access to it or something.  I count reading a couple pages and deciding I dislike this book enough to never want to look at it again as finishing.


----------



## Jirou (May 31, 2016)

If it's within my circle of interest, then no matter how long the work is or how thick the book is and how many installments are there, I'll be able to finish them all. On the other hand, if a certain work is new to my taste or field of interest, it might take a while for me to finish it. But once I get hooked into it? Oh man, there's no stopping me


----------



## Robin (Jun 1, 2016)

The last time I read a fiction book was probably around 10 years ago, it was The Lord of the Rings. I used to like sci-fi. 

Now I only read non-fiction. And I'm always busy so I may not finish if I got the gist of the idea and I know where the author is going. But I rarely drop a fiction if I got past the first few chapters.


----------



## Jirou (Jun 4, 2016)

Yesterday I went to the nearest Fully Booked branch (it's like the cream of the crop of bookstores here) and I cried when I saw the limited edition leatherbound book set for A Song of Ice and Fire series, and the Lord of the Rings trilogy


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Jun 6, 2016)

Do you guys and dolls find you have a different mentality toward e-books and online writings than you do printed versions?


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## Kikyo (Jun 6, 2016)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Do you guys and dolls find you have a different mentality toward e-books and online writings than you do printed versions?



Not really. I like to read. The format doesn't really matter to me. 

But a book I love? That, I will spend good money to have a nicely bound hard cover edition. Something to treasure and appreciate for years to come. Assuming that such an edition is available anyway.


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## Jirou (Jun 7, 2016)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Do you guys and dolls find you have a different mentality toward e-books and online writings than you do printed versions?


I love reading. No matter what kind, I'll read it. It's already become a part of me. The only thing I have against e-books or online writings is how the radiation of my phone or my laptop affects my eyes after hours and hours of reading. That's all, really. Tbh, I currently have more e-book copies than I do have the physical/printed ones and it's because I'm so poor  but whenever I have the chance to be able to buy a physical copy, I do make sure that it's the hardbound version.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jun 8, 2016)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Do you guys and dolls find you have a different mentality toward e-books and online writings than you do printed versions?


Yes. 

I basically treat print books like they don't exist at this point. All my reading is done on Kindle, iPhone, or iPad. Even when it comes to comic books I keep the hard copy bagged and boarded and read them on the iPad. 

I do use paper to review my own writing, but that's just because I don't have a tablet that I can write on anymore. Getting an iPad Pro for this reason soon.


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## Moka (Jul 1, 2016)

*I'm just here because I love talking about anime. *


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## Krory (Jul 1, 2016)

That's nice, dear.


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## Catamount (Jul 29, 2016)

Where can I complain about GRRM posting shit about cinema, cards and awards in his blog and not giving even a note on the next SoIaF book


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## Catamount (Jul 29, 2016)

Then I am raging.
He is a damn attention whore.


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## Buskuv (Aug 12, 2016)

I really hate reading a book where the premise and world is far more interesting than the actual story contained with in it.

The Windup Girl isn't a bad story by any means, but it has that really frustrating, modern inclination to just end abruptly and without meaningful resolution because the author has no idea what to do; what's fascinating about the book is the world in which the story takes place, since it's both engaging and terrifying, but there are too many characters and too short of a page count for as much to happen as should be.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Oct 14, 2016)

Memba when this place had life ...


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## Krory (Oct 14, 2016)

ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ said:


> Memba when this place had life ...



Not really.


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## Tyrael (Jun 27, 2017)

Been so long since I used this site that I'm a bit thrown by all this reaction stuff.

How folks doing?


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## Buskuv (Jul 1, 2017)

We're all very lazy.


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## Tyrael (Jul 3, 2017)

Apparently so.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 6, 2017)

Oh shit. It's a reunion.


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## Malicious Friday (Jul 31, 2017)

I just came back from hibernation and I'm fatter than ever. Isn't that grand?


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 12, 2017)

Kind of a weird thing to be excited about.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 16, 2018)

Almost made it a year with this conversation being dead. But I won't let that happen.


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## B Rabbit (Jul 21, 2018)

I can never read the "Song of Fire and Ice." series because I don't think GRRM will ever finish it.

I don't want to invest and never get a good ending.


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## MO (Jul 21, 2018)

is there anyone good in English class here?


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jul 21, 2018)

B Rabbit said:


> I can never read the "Song of Fire and Ice." series because I don't think GRRM will ever finish it.
> 
> I don't want to invest and never get a good ending.


 Really couldn't take the long winded writing that he was prone to.


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## B Rabbit (Jul 22, 2018)

MO said:


> is there anyone good in English class here?


It is my major.

I make a ton of grammatical errors on here, but that is because I am usually on my phone.


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## B Rabbit (Jul 22, 2018)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Really couldn't take the long winded writing that he was prone to.


I don't mind the winded writing too much. However I must admit it gets to me sometimes.  However that on top of never having a definitive window for release really does bring the series down.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 6, 2018)

B Rabbit said:


> I don't mind the winded writing too much. However I must admit it gets to me sometimes.  However that on top of never having a definitive window for release really does bring the series down.


Yeah, it's become the huge joke now that the book has been coming out all of this time. Like didn't the last book come out just before the show started?


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Oct 22, 2018)

Don't know if anyone here uses Fan Fic.net, but it's probably best to stay off the site for a bit. Some hacker has found a javascript exploit that's spreading like wildfire.


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## B Rabbit (Oct 30, 2018)

Rerading Harry Potter. Its a good series. However you can definitly tell that she changes things based on how she feels on the characters.


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## Demetrius (Oct 31, 2018)

i need to write more and make it a routine agghhh 

>effort


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## B Rabbit (Oct 31, 2018)

I just reread all the Harry Potter series.

It reminds me how at peace I am with just reading and writing.


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## Mider T (Oct 3, 2019)




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## Island (Oct 4, 2019)

Oh, FYI.

I mod this section now.

When the staff did its yearly role call, we realized it didn't have a dedicated section mod, so I'll be keeping an eye on things while we figure out what to do with this place.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mider T (Oct 7, 2019)




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## Trinity (Nov 25, 2019)

Island said:


> Oh, FYI.
> 
> I mod this section now.
> 
> When the staff did its yearly role call, we realized it didn't have a dedicated section mod, so I'll be keeping an eye on things while we figure out what to do with this place.


OuO


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## Krory (Dec 1, 2019)

Mod Trin for this section


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## Gerjaffers786 (Dec 10, 2019)

These convos are interesting


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## Mider T (May 8, 2020)




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## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 20, 2020)

How cold is Norway this time of year. Fuck this heat.


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## Mider T (Jan 1, 2021)




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## Island (Jan 2, 2021)

It's a short enough book (218) pages that it'd be an easy enough read to start the year off on.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 21, 2021)

Island said:


> It's a short enough book (218) pages that it'd be an easy enough read to start the year off on.


Time to edit vampires into the Great Gatsby and make a killing


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## Final Fantasy (Oct 27, 2021)

Does this sound like a interesting story? Here's the name of the story, but it may change at some point:

*Memories of the Abyss*

Every fortnight Cain has lifelike dreams about a place that can only be described as hell. Cain grows more and more desperate, as a feeling of inevitability grows in his heart. Nothing is more important than avoiding ending up in that place, in his mind, so he does everything he can to learn about it.  He studies religions, history, science and magic. Using his dreams as a guide, he learns about the abyss and the true nature of his world.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Oddjutsu (Oct 30, 2021)

Final Fantasy said:


> Does this sound like a interesting story? Here's the name of the story, but it may change at some point:
> 
> *Memories of the Abyss*
> 
> Every fortnight Cain has lifelike dreams about a place that can only be described as hell. Cain grows more and more desperate, as a feeling of inevitability grows in his heart. Nothing is more important than avoiding ending up in that place, in his mind, so he does everything he can to learn about it.  He studies religions, history, science and magic. Using his dreams as a guide, he learns about the abyss and the true nature of his world.


Yes it does

Reactions: Like 1


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## Final Fantasy (Oct 30, 2021)

Oddjutsu said:


> Yes it does


Good to hear, me and my friend have been working on this story for a while now.  It's probably going to take a while before it comes out, if we ever finish it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 12, 2021)




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