# Rinnegan Sasuke vs Toneri Otsutsuki



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 1, 2015)

Battlefield: Moon's surface
Starting Distance: 40 Meters
Restrictions: Biju power for Sasuke
Knowledge: Rep for both

Duel of the strongest Dojutsu users of the series, who wins?

Scenario 2:

Sasuke has access to the Biju power he had for the final battle with Naruto, does this change the results?


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## Rocky (May 1, 2015)

Where did you people even watch this movie.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (May 1, 2015)

Against every god-tier sasuke fought his shifting time-space has had a good showing(only madara and kaguya could avoid it after some trial and error) so this could end in a straight up blitz in scene one.Add in him being able to shift his perfect susanoo around and he is gonna overwhelm toneri.

Scenario 2 is a mid diff for sasuke. If toneri somehow manage to consistently counter(with truth seekers i assume) casual offense on par with senjutsu six paths TBB indra arrow eradicates him on contact.


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## Icegaze (May 1, 2015)

Sasuke should win 
6 path jutsu +limbo+ his ST jutsu+PS + all his other MS jutsu is simply too much hax for toneri to deal with 

sasuke wins high diff first scenario 

and low diff the second


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## blackguyinpinksuit (May 1, 2015)

Sasuke does not have limbo icegaze. Only madara showed that unique ability it's like giving madara sasuke's amenojikara(or however the hell it's spelled).


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## Eliyua23 (May 1, 2015)

Sasuke stomps that pussy into the mud


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## Trojan (May 1, 2015)

Toneri fodderstomps. 

The guy cannot lose unless against someone who has Hamaru's blood/chakra which Sasuke does not. 
Toneri will 1-shot him like he did to Naruto at first.


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## Kyu (May 1, 2015)

Does Sasuke have an answer to Toneri's Moon Slicing Blade?

His Perfect Susano'o has been fucked up by far lesser attacks.


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## ARGUS (May 2, 2015)

Sasuke wins mid diff at the absolute max, 

 -- their battle at VOTE showed us that sasukes PS is equivalent to the RSM avatar in terms of strength, mobility and durability, whereas Toneri got punked by BSM naruto, 

 -- RSM avatar >>> BSM avatar, so toneri gets clowned, and his mooon slicing attack isnt cutting it against sasuke here when it failed to do shit against a weaker naruto


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## Orochibuto (May 2, 2015)

Stop this "RS > BSM" bullshit, we DON'T KNOW what Naruto was using in The Last, it was never said. For all we know he merged his Rikudou Senjutsu in his Bijuu Mode making it more powerful while having less physical changes.

We can say for sure RS Naruto > BSM Naruto IN THE WAR, but we can't say it in the movie because we don't know.

Naruto in The Last had more time to train his abilities than the one that Sasuke fought, so it is perfectly possible (and in fact likely considering the tier of attacks Naruto tanked by himself) Naruto got way more powerful than he was in the war.


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## Icegaze (May 2, 2015)

@blackguyinpink suit 
sasuke has the true rinnegan makes sense he would have all jutsu of rinnegan seeing that he has all of nagato 6th path jutsu


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## Alucardemi (May 2, 2015)

> Sasuke activates Amaterasu on his hand
> Amenotejikara's Toneri or himself
> Grabs/touches/holds Toneri with Amaterasu'd hand
> Uses Kagutsuchi on top of him



Toneri dies in burning pieces.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 2, 2015)

Alucardemi said:


> > Sasuke activates Amaterasu on his hand
> > Amenotejikara's Toneri or himself
> > Grabs/touches/holds Toneri with Amaterasu'd hand
> > Uses Kagutsuchi on top of him
> ...


Can't Toneri just drain Amaterasu's chakra with the Cursed Puppet Seal?


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## Alucardemi (May 2, 2015)

Spikes/blades can't be drained fast enough. Kaguya could drain Amaterasu pretty easily, but spikes forced her to retreat, which is why she also didn't just drain Sasuke's Chidori and had to evade it.

Similarly, Madara couldn't drain Sasuke's Yin-Chidori spear, and was cut in half.

Unless Toneri can absorb chakra better than Kaguya/Madara, he's gonna get turned into mincemeat.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 2, 2015)

Alucardemi said:


> Spikes/blades can't be drained fast enough. Kaguya could drain Amaterasu pretty easily, but spikes forced her to retreat, which is why she also didn't just drain Sasuke's Chidori and had to evade it.
> 
> Similarly, Madara couldn't drain Sasuke's Yin-Chidori spear, and was cut in half.
> 
> Unless Toneri can absorb chakra better than Kaguya/Madara, he's gonna get turned into mincemeat.


Toneri instantly drained Naruto _twice_, something Madara and Kaguya couldn't do.


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## Alucardemi (May 2, 2015)

No. Even if I haven't watched the movie, I already know that that's bullshit. Kid is not a better absober than Kaguya, lol. How can you even consider something so silly?

Did he drain him of BSM, or out of RSM?

It was BSM, wasn't it? Yes, of course it was.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (May 2, 2015)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Battlefield: Moon's surface
> Starting Distance: 40 Meters
> Restrictions: Biju power for Sasuke
> Knowledge: Rep for both
> ...



Naruto could have destroyed Toneri with anything KCM V2 (SM enhanced, of course) onwards.

Rinnegan Sasuke is capable of fighting on par with Naruto's strongest chakra mode as it was in the manga, which was more than enough to take Toneri.

Rinnegan Sasuke is going to destroy Toneri. Sasuke's got access to Sage power, as we saw in the manga vs Madara and then later Naruto. So Toneri's attacks like Gedou Dama won't do much. 

Amenojikara would be enough to bring Toneri in to as Susanoo smash or Chidori attack. Rinnegan Genjutsu could set up some decent openings... consider the fact that Preta Path will nullify all of Toneri's jutsu.

The puppets are going to be easy to deal with for Sasuke. 

Now if Sasuke's got the Rinnegan's powers mastered in this match.
Preta Path forces Toneri to enter close combat without chakra and Demon Realm would make Taijutsu obsolete. 
That's not including all the other ocular powers Sasuke will have access to. 

Toneri could have a shot with the Jyuuken... he doesn't know Jyuuken however. Meaning he can't shut down Sasuke's capacity to use chakra. A factor like this could've been troublesome for Sasuke in a scenario with no knowledge.

Scenario 2 is just rape. 


---


Technically since Sasuke would be so close to the moon, he would get a power up in the form of the Rinnesharingan.



Orochibuto said:


> Stop this "RS > BSM" bullshit, we DON'T KNOW what Naruto was using in The Last, it was never said. For all we know he merged his Rikudou Senjutsu in his Bijuu Mode making it more powerful while having less physical changes.
> 
> We can say for sure RS Naruto > BSM Naruto IN THE WAR, but we can't say it in the movie because we don't know.
> 
> Naruto in The Last had more time to train his abilities than the one that Sasuke fought, so it is perfectly possible (and in fact likely considering the tier of attacks Naruto tanked by himself) Naruto got way more powerful than he was in the war.



Dude, visuals tell you a lot. Naruto has 100% Kurama within him, and has all the Bijuu's chakra within him... so obviously the seal would change as it did when Naruto enhanced it with 50% Kurama. So it would stand to reason that the sealing pattern would be different in KCM. 
Second Naruto's *whole body* changed with no trademark BM coat... another point to KCM. 
Naruto's eyes? Again, he's got the complete Kurama within his body, not half, so it would stand to reason that the chakra mode would reflect that. And the Sage Mode markings mean he just did what he did with his other chakra forms when he fused powers. 
Or it naturally happens as he enters KCM now.

Either way, we've got a sufficient amount of evidence to say he's using KCM. We do not have sufficient evidence to say he *isn't*.

So no, we can carry on this "bullshit" of saying "RS>BSM*"; BSM version 1.

We know for a fact Naruto wouldn't lose the Bijuu after what Hagromo said. So if he used all their power at once, we'd see some Gedou Dama and the trademark outfit. Instead we got his most basic chakra mode as it would look with SM and a full Kurama.

Naruto would've been more powerful than in the war, true. But that's not to say that he needed his most powerful transformations against Toneri. We know for a fact he had two more forms, which if used, would've wrecked Toneri.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 2, 2015)

Alucardemi said:


> No. Even if I haven't watched the movie, I already know that that's bullshit. Kid is not a better absober than Kaguya, lol. How can you even consider something so silly?
> 
> Did he drain him of BSM, or out of RSM?
> 
> It was BSM, wasn't it? Yes, of course it was.


Dude, Toneri instantly drained Naruto *twice*. First when he took Hinata, and second when Naruto had beaten him. The second time was only halted since Hinata had Hamura chakra to shield Naruto from it and replinish him. 

And given how The Last's version of BSM can do almost everything RSM does, that distinction doesn't help your argument.


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## Nikushimi (May 2, 2015)

Itachi wins this.


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## Trojan (May 2, 2015)

Do people still not get that you need Hamaru's chakra to defeat this guy? 
fascinating.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (May 2, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Do people still not get that you need Hamaru's chakra to defeat this guy?
> fascinating.



Only to get past the absorption. Apart from that, Naruto was fighting with Tenseigan Mode Toneri just fine.


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## Ashi (May 2, 2015)

Alucardemi said:


> No. Even if I haven't watched the movie, I already know that that's bullshit. Kid is not a better absober than Kaguya, lol. How can you even consider something so silly?
> 
> Did he drain him of BSM, or out of RSM?
> 
> It was BSM, wasn't it? Yes, of course it was.



Sasuke fanboys, I tell ya?


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## UchihaX28 (May 2, 2015)

Don't even need to watch the Last Movie to know Sasuke rapes Toneri over and over and over again.


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## Trojan (May 2, 2015)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Only to get past the absorption. Apart from that, Naruto was fighting with Tenseigan Mode Toneri just fine.



Hinata transferred her chakra to him tho.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 3, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> Don't even need to watch the Last Movie to know Sasuke rapes Toneri over and over and over again.


And what's stopping Toneri from just zapping Sasuke's chakra? And can Sasuke tank a moon slashing blade?


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## UchihaX28 (May 3, 2015)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And what's stopping Toneri from just zapping Sasuke's chakra? And can Sasuke tank a moon slashing blade?



 He doesn't have to.

 Teleportation/ Shunshin blitz will be enough. Ask Juubidara. He'll know.


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## Blu-ray (May 3, 2015)

Don't see why a Rinnegan genjutsu followed up by a beheading wouldn't do the trick. That or an Amenotejikara blitz. If he can tag both Naruto and Mads with it, Toneri won't be different. Or just go PS and smash him the old fashioned way, dodging moon cutters just to be safe.



Hussain said:


> Toneri fodderstomps.
> 
> The guy cannot lose unless against someone who has Hamaru's blood/chakra which Sasuke does not.
> Toneri will 1-shot him like he did to Naruto at first.



Hinata's chakra was required to destroy the Tenseigan. (The chakra vessel with the multiple byakugan, not the one in Toneri's head just to be clear.) Naruto fought him on his own, until he got drained.



Kyu said:


> Does Sasuke have an answer to Toneri's Moon Slicing Blade?
> 
> His Perfect Susano'o has been fucked up by far lesser attacks.



The only attacks that did that were Kaguya's which are obviously beyond Toneri's, and Naruto and Sasuke's combined all out clash. The sword has impressive range sure, but it still was tanked by Naruto with no RSM and without his Kurama avatar.

Sasuke's PS has durability on par with Naruto's RSM Kurama avatar, so it should be fine.



Orochibuto said:


> Stop this "RS > BSM" bullshit, we DON'T KNOW what Naruto was using in The Last, it was never said. For all we know he merged his Rikudou Senjutsu in his Bijuu Mode making it more powerful while having less physical changes.
> 
> We can say for sure RS Naruto > BSM Naruto IN THE WAR, but we can't say it in the movie because we don't know.
> 
> Naruto in The Last had more time to train his abilities than the one that Sasuke fought, so it is perfectly possible (and in fact likely considering the tier of attacks Naruto tanked by himself) Naruto got way more powerful than he was in the war.



It is BSM. It looks exactly like it, and if that wasn't enough, it was called that in the Retsu no Sho.

Him becoming more skilled is obviously reasonable and a matter of fact, as is an increase in power to a degree, but he obviously can't reach RSM level with just BM. That would mean his power and Kurama's> His power, Kurama's, Hagaromo's, and the other 8 Bijuu. 

In any case he didn't use anything close to the scale he did while in RSM anyway.


SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Can't Toneri just drain Amaterasu's chakra with the Cursed Puppet Seal?



I'm guessing no, for the same reason he blocked Naruto's jutsu with his Godudama instead of just draining any of them.



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Toneri instantly drained Naruto _twice_, something Madara and Kaguya couldn't do.



Naruto was also in Six Paths Sage mode against those two, unlike here. The first time he was drained he was in base, and the second time he was drained he was in Bijuu Sage Mode with Kurama fucking off elsewhere fighting a Gedo Mazo wannabe.

Juubito also drained BSM Naruto instantly in the war, and though admittedly that had less chakra, he did drain both halves.



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And given how The Last's version of BSM can do almost everything RSM does, that distinction doesn't help your argument.



No it can't. There was no flight, Godudama, or any Bijuu powers, and none of his jutsu were on the scale he showed while in RSM.



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And what's stopping Toneri from just zapping Sasuke's chakra? And can Sasuke tank a moon slashing blade?



I can only guess his own chakra absorption will cancel it out ala Mads and Hashi in the war. And he can tank it, or at least he should, unless BSM Naruto's defenses without Kurama massively eclipsed RSM Naruto's with it. (I sincerely doubt it did.)

In any case, dodging it is also an option.


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## Trojan (May 3, 2015)

Sasuke is still going to get 1-shoted tho.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 3, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> He doesn't have to.
> 
> Teleportation/ Shunshin blitz will be enough. Ask Juubidara. He'll know.


Toneri was as fast as Naruto, who was faster/as fast than Sasuke's teleportation and Kaguya's. He's kinda not getting blitzed. Toneri displayed more power than Juubi Madara too.


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## Trojan (May 3, 2015)

Does not Toneri have his own S/T jutsu? 
which is also far superior than Sasuke's "kawarimi" lol


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (May 3, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Hinata transferred her chakra to him tho.



No chakra transfer happened when KSM Naruto v1 Naruto defeated Toneri. It happened after when Toneri got desperate, to stop that one particular jutsu.

If this is BL, sure Toneri could take this since there is no way to beat Toneri if he's continually absorb chakra. Unless you manage to prepare a powerful enough move to take him out while he's doing it.

If Sasuke's got the Rinnegan mastered, then it is a sign that Limbo could just own Toneri in that scenario. Or Amenojikara could be used to get Toneri close enough to be Preta Path owned... the jutsu could be used to warp away that orb leaving Sasuke several options to capitalise on Toneri's surprise. Remember, Sasuke's prediction would be far above any normal Uchiha without the Rinnegan or Hashirama's cells.


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## Ersa (May 3, 2015)

Dear lord.

When was the gap between Sauce and Nardo so big that a Naruto not utilizing his Rikudo powers is vastly superior to a Sasuke using his? Because that's a fucking huge power difference.


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## Zef (May 3, 2015)

Sasuke negs this jobba.

Moon Slicing Blade is easily avoided with Amenotejikara.


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## Rain (May 3, 2015)

Toroni-guy seems like fodder-material.


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## Grimmjowsensei (May 3, 2015)

Sasuke one shots that anime filler.


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## ZE (May 3, 2015)

The Naruto Toneli fought was stronger than the one Sasuke faced. And Toneli's feat of cutting the moon in half is way more impressive than anything Sasuke ever did. 

And then you have the fact that Toneli can only lose to someone with byakugan powers or so I heard.


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## UchihaX28 (May 3, 2015)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Toneri was as fast as Naruto, who was faster/as fast than Sasuke's teleportation and Kaguya's. He's kinda not getting blitzed. Toneri displayed more power than Juubi Madara too.



 You mean a stronger Naruto who was blitzed by Sasuke's Teleportation?

 I hope you're not suggesting Naruto's faster than instant teleportation because that's literally impossible. No being can move that fast.


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## Trojan (May 4, 2015)

Then why do you think Sasuke can do that to Toneri who has his own teleportation which is superior to Sasuke's?


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## Altair21 (May 4, 2015)

ZE said:


> *The Naruto Toneli fought was stronger than the one Sasuke faced.* And Toneli's feat of cutting the moon in half is way more impressive than anything Sasuke ever did.
> 
> And then you have the fact that Toneli can only lose to someone with byakugan powers or so I heard.



He certainly wasn't unless you're really trying to sit here and say BSM Naruto is stronger than RSM Naruto because the former is what he used against Toneri, not the latter. That in and of itself is laughable. 



Hussain said:


> Then why do you think Sasuke can do that to Toneri who has his own teleportation which is superior to Sasuke's?



Toneri has no s/t jutsu whatsoever. I've no idea where you even got that from.


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## TheGreen1 (May 4, 2015)

Toneri can drain chakra... well so can Rinnegan Sasuke. So these guys might just be draining chakra from one another. Unless Toneri doesn't need to be close to Sasuke. (I haven't seen the movie fully).

If Toneri doesn't need to be close to Sasuke to drain chakra, Sasuke's a dead man.


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## Brooks (May 4, 2015)

Toneri gets shitted on, then decided to go back to the moon and pray he never crosses paths with Sasuke again.


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## Csdabest (May 4, 2015)

Strength wise. I dont know if Naruto can get any stronger. He already has Juubi Level chakra. I would say in the Movie Naruto was way more skilled than normal rather than superiorly stronger. Because Remember they credited Toneri as being as strong as Juubi Madara. Moon Cutting Sword was Toneri Strongest attack IMO. Sasuke busted a Meteor with Base Chidori......Also whats to stop Sasuke From Chakra Draining Toneri? He was able to instantly drain Naruto of his Bijuu Chakra as well. 

Now if Sasuke has fully mastered his Rinnegan. He should be capable of all techniques including Limbo. He should also have every technique from his Clan as well.


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## StickaStick (May 4, 2015)

Did even know the movie was out until I saw ppl disusing this matchup tbh.


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## Zuhaitz (May 4, 2015)

Why should rinnegan mastered Sasuke be able it use Limbo?

Can't it be an exclusive technique of Madara's rinnegan, just as the teleportation was for Sasuke?


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 4, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> You mean a stronger Naruto who was blitzed by Sasuke's Teleportation?
> 
> I hope you're not suggesting Naruto's faster than instant teleportation because that's literally impossible. No being can move that fast.


Naruto, during the end part of the War, was faster than Kaguya's instant teleportation. Now two years later Naruto is stronger, faster, etc. in every area, yet Sasuke's teleportation (which didn't blitz him, Sasuke used a distraction for a reason)is supposed to be faster?


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## Rocky (May 4, 2015)

Naruto used Bijū Sage Mode to fight on par with Toneri's Tenseigan Chakra form.

Rikudō Sage Mode wasn't used in the film for whatever reason, but let's not act like it's inferior to BSM.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (May 4, 2015)

Zuhaitz said:


> Why should rinnegan mastered Sasuke be able it use Limbo?
> 
> Can't it be an exclusive technique of Madara's rinnegan, just as the teleportation was for Sasuke?



It seems the standard tomoe-less Rinnegan have access to all Nagato and Madara's powers.

The only distinction with Sasuke's Rinnegan was his tomoe. Likely the tomoe indicates that Amenojikara, the teleportation, comes with that.


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## Zuhaitz (May 4, 2015)

Kaguya's teleport wasn't the same as Sasuke's. It seems that each Rinegan has their own unique techniques.

Also, we don't know what kind of mode Naruto used against Toneri, but we know that It wasn't the same as any mode used on the war saga.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 4, 2015)

Rocky said:


> Naruto used Bijū Sage Mode to fight on par with Toneri's Tenseigan Chakra form.
> 
> Rikudō Sage Mode wasn't used in the film for whatever reason, but let's not act like it's inferior to BSM.


Given The Last's version of BSM could survive a moon cutting b lade and OVERPOWER it...I think its superior to Rikudo Sage Mode of the War.


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## Icegaze (May 4, 2015)

naruto did not overpower the blade i watched the movie
he avoided that shit why do people claim he overpowered it 

am confused


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## Zuhaitz (May 4, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> naruto did not overpower the blade i watched the movie
> he avoided that shit why do people claim he overpowered it
> 
> am confused



Because he did. He took the sword head on and repelled it.


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## Csdabest (May 4, 2015)

Zuhaitz said:


> Kaguya's teleport wasn't the same as Sasuke's. It seems that each Rinegan has their own unique techniques.
> 
> Also, we don't know what kind of mode Naruto used against Toneri, but we know that It wasn't the same as any mode used on the war saga.



Thats simple Logic. The very bases of Space time Jutsu is that you are able to warp anything you or your chakra is touching. Sasuke only has absorbed Senjutsu Chakra and does not yet have Sage Mode and isn't one with Nature. Kayuya is one with Nature. So her chakra is all over the place with her all its potency and magnitude tied within natural energy So she can literally warp everyone that is touching her chakra along with her to multiple dimensions. Sasuke already shown the power to warp mutliple people as well. All Rinnegan Can perform most likely all techniques but according to the power and skill they are capable of greater magnitude and capabilities.Remember when minato warped everyone to safety. Thats because of Naruto Chakra being connected to everyone. Im sure if Sasuke ever got his chakra powers up to snuff he would be capable of a similar feat as kaguya.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 4, 2015)

Zuhaitz said:


> Because he did. He took the sword head on and repelled it.


[YOUTUBE]j04stXnUe40[/YOUTUBE]
Exactly.


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## Blu-ray (May 4, 2015)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Toneri was as fast as Naruto, who was faster/as fast than Sasuke's teleportation and Kaguya's. He's kinda not getting blitzed. Toneri displayed more power than Juubi Madara too.



Toneri was as fast as a Naruto that was inferior to Rikudo Sage Mode, and Naruto was never equal to Sasuke's teleportation as far as movement speed went. That said, Naruto got tagged the two times it was used against him, so that doesn't bode well for Toneri anyway.

Juubi Madara also never went all out in the power department, but Mugen Tsukuyomi and Shin Jukai Kotan still eclipse all Toneri had to offer.




Ersatz said:


> Dear lord.
> 
> When was the gap between Sauce and Nardo so big that a Naruto not utilizing his Rikudo powers is vastly superior to a Sasuke using his? Because that's a fucking huge power difference.



It never did.



ZE said:


> The Naruto Toneli fought was stronger than the one Sasuke faced. And Toneli's feat of cutting the moon in half is way more impressive than anything Sasuke ever did.
> 
> And then you have the fact that Toneli can only lose to someone with byakugan powers or so I heard.



Hyuuga power was required for the Tenseigan only, and no, this Naruto was inferior to the one in the war. Well, the mode he used was weaker anyway.



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Naruto, during the end part of the War, was faster than Kaguya's instant teleportation. Now two years later Naruto is stronger, faster, etc. in every area, yet Sasuke's teleportation (which didn't blitz him, Sasuke used a distraction for a reason)is supposed to be faster?



This Naruto is inferior to RSM Naruto. The fireball was his opening offense not a distraction, and even if we assume it was, Naruto still noted that Sasuke used his Rinnegan ability, yet still got hit regardless. He didn't even react the second time it was used. This all happened in a superior form with superior speed and reflex as well.

Kaguya also has no instant teleportation. It's either shift the dimension itself  or move through black portals.


Zuhaitz said:


> Kaguya's teleport wasn't the same as Sasuke's. It seems that each Rinegan has their own unique techniques.
> 
> Also, we don't know what kind of mode Naruto used against Toneri, but we know that It wasn't the same as any mode used on the war saga.



We do know. it was Bijuu Sage Mode. That should be apparent on its own, and if not, the movie guide book flat out calls it that.



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Given The Last's version of BSM could survive a moon cutting b lade and OVERPOWER it...I think its superior to Rikudo Sage Mode of the War.



Based on what? Did Rikudo Sage Mode Naruto get damaged from something less powerful? I'm not sure what logic could make you put a flat out inferior mode above a stronger one, but okay.


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## Trojan (May 5, 2015)

> It never did.



Must be why Sasuke used all 9 Bijuu to stand a chance against a holding back, exhausted Naruto who lacked 6 out of 8 Gedu Damas.


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## Blu-ray (May 5, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Must be why Sasuke used all 9 Bijuu to stand a chance against a holding back, exhausted Naruto who lacked 6 out of 8 Gedu Damas.



"Naruto not using his Rikudo powers being vastly superior to Sasuke using his." Rikduo Sage Mode is not Rikudo power now?

Naruto stopped holding back, Sasuke was also exhausted, and Sasuke did not have full control of his Rinnegan, and Bijuu control is a subset of his power.

Naruto's own fault he lost his Gudodama, just like it was Sauce's fault he lost his sword.


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## Trojan (May 5, 2015)

Naruto became much more powerful throughout the 2 years than he used to be. 



> Naruto stopped holding back,


He did not.



> Sasuke was also exhausted


No where near Naruto. He was getting btich-slapped during Kaguya's battle for example and did nothing. 
Naruto was left with 1 out 1000 part of his chakra because of dividing his chakra to the clones. 



> and Sasuke did not have full control of his Rinnegan,


And how does that change what happened in the battle? Naruto did not have full control of Gedu-dama to negates
all type of Ninjutsu and use them as obito did. 

lol @comparing a sword to Gedu-damas. But oh well, it also Sasuke's fualt that he sucks with the Rinnegan I guess. lol


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## Zuhaitz (May 5, 2015)

The ones that say that Naruto was slower in the movie than he was at the end of the manga, what proofs do they have?


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## Kyu (May 5, 2015)

Forgot about Sauce's Rinnegan's S/T jutsu. Entirely possible that'll lead him to victory.



> Given The Last's version of BSM could survive a moon cutting b lade and OVERPOWER it...I think its superior to Rikudo Sage Mode of the War.



I'm inclined to say 50% RSM is superior to 100% BSM because of the whole 'blitzing the strongest dojutsu wielder in the manga' feat, however BSM has two advantages to the six paths-empowered state(Kaguya/VotE-fight).

-Yin+Yang Kurama as opposed to one half
-2 years of abnormally rapid growth 

Because of this and judging his performance versus Toneri, he's unarguably capable of fighting rikudos - now how far up is he onto that totem poll is the question. 



> He did not.



He stopped holding back when Sasuke formed his Juubisano'o.


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## Ersa (May 5, 2015)

I mean honestly as far as I can tell.

Rikudo Naruto [The Last] >= Rikudo Sasuke [The Last] > Rikudo Naruto [VOTE2] > BSM Naruto [The Last] >= Toneri


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## Trojan (May 5, 2015)

Kyu said:


> He stopped holding back when Sasuke formed his Juubisano'o.



How so? 
Narudo kept saying till the end that he wants to battle sasuke and defeats him fairly, but not in that battle. He did not even use his strongest attack against Sasuke's strongest attack, but rather used a regular FRS (with 1 TBB FRS) just to balance their power out. 

If Narudo used his strongest attack at that moment, I would have agreed with you, but he did not. Heck, even after that, he did not use fir example the Gobi's abilities and chakra to make his Taijutsu stronger like he did against Kaguya.


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## Blu-ray (May 5, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Naruto became much more powerful throughout the 2 years than he used to be.



Sure he did. But so did Sasuke.


> He did not.


Kurama says otherwise. _"We would have been blown away"_ Remember that?



> Naruto was left with 1 out 1000 part of his chakra because of dividing his chakra to the clones.



Clones return the chakra they have to the original when they disperse. Otherwise Naruto using them to gather Sage chakra would not have been possible.



> And how does that change what happened in the battle?


Naruto's final Rasengan would have gotten absorbed, and he would have died.



> Naruto did not have full control of Gedu-dama to negates
> all type of Ninjutsu and use them as obito did.



You're reaching, cause that was never said. He did have full control of them. He simply can't negate Sasuke's ninjutsu because of his own Rikudo power.



> lol @comparing a sword to Gedu-damas. But oh well, it also Sasuke's fualt that he sucks with the Rinnegan I guess. lol



I dunno man. That sword impaled Madara. Naruto's dama on the other hand couldn't even break ice. 

The Rinnegan's lack of power was attributed to it being new than a lack of skill, but Sauce picked the fight so true either way.



Hussain said:


> How so?
> Narudo kept saying till the end that he wants to battle sasuke and defeats him fairly, but not in that battle. He did not even use his strongest attack against Sasuke's strongest attack, but rather used a regular FRS (with 1 TBB FRS) just to balance their power out.



Hussain, think. He used those techniques while in Bijuu form as opposed to normal, and put all his power into them to the point he had _no chakra left afterward._ If he had reserve power, and that was just him scaling back to match Sasuke, then he would not have been exhausted afterward.

If he was in a position where he had excess power, Kurama would not have said they were lucky to be alive.


> If Narudo used his strongest attack at that moment, I would have agreed with you, but he did not. Heck, even after that, he did not use fir example the Gobi's abilities and chakra to make his Taijutsu stronger like he did against Kaguya.



It was his strongest attack. Certainly hope you don't think Gobi's strength buff would have been more useful than his full Bijuu Form.


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## Kyu (May 5, 2015)

> How so?
> Narudo kept saying till the end that he wants to battle sasuke and defeats him fairly, but not in that battle. He did not even use his strongest attack against Sasuke's strongest attack, but rather used a regular FRS



It's Naruto's fault for blowing his load during the Madara fight and wasting his last few Truth-Seeking Orbs to counter generic Susano'o Arrows..

One COFRS & One makeshift BDRS is all Naruto had access to at the time & given he went as far as to _absorb all the natural energy in the world_ indicates he was going all out with what he had left.

Now could Naruto have won the clash if he threw five more BDRS in the shadow of the first? Absolutely. But again - they were squandered on meteors and attacks he could've dodged.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (May 5, 2015)

Zuhaitz said:


> Kaguya's teleport wasn't the same as Sasuke's. It seems that each Rinegan has their own unique techniques.
> 
> Also, we don't know what kind of mode Naruto used against Toneri, but we know that It wasn't the same as any mode used on the war saga.



Kaguya's teleport was the product of her Rinnesharingan, of course it wasn't the same as Sasuke's. It came from a totally different ocular power. 

Each Rinnegan doesn't have their own unique jutsu, which is why we've seen every Rinnegan user use CT and just about every one that fought has used the Preta Path. There wasn't as much repetition because they were all the same.

We also know, post-war, Naruto had all the Bijuu (the databook even lists that his seal is different hence the different design) and 100% Kurama. Meaning that seal on KCM Naruto v1 was the new seal he got after becoming a Jinchuriki to all the Bijuu, and the eyes were because he had 100%, not 50%, Kurama. Also SM marks obviously meant SM was stacked on top of KCM v1.

We know what the mode was, it was basically an updated version of the first chakra mode Naruto ever obtained after taming Kurama, with SM stacked on top if it.

Meaning Naruto didn't go all out to beat Toneri and if Sasuke is still on par with Naruto, he wouldn't struggle either.


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## sanninme rikudo (May 5, 2015)

Sasuke takes this, considering the fact that Sasuke could match Naruto at his strongest while Naruto wasn't even all out against Toneri. With that said Sasuke would have to take it.


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## Zuhaitz (May 6, 2015)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Kaguya's teleport was the product of her Rinnesharingan, of course it wasn't the same as Sasuke's. It came from a totally different ocular power.
> 
> Each Rinnegan doesn't have their own unique jutsu, which is why we've seen every Rinnegan user use CT and just about every one that fought has used the Preta Path. There wasn't as much repetition because they were all the same.
> 
> ...




No, no and no.

We don't know if each Rinnegan has It's own unique set of powers aside from the regular ones.

Kaguya didn't show Sasuke's teleportation nor Madara's Limbo.

We know that at least one of the 9 Bijuus choose to live inside another person, leaving Naruto with 8 bijuus out of nine at most. And probably Naruto ended up just having 100% inside him and just a part of the chakra of rest at most.

We don't know what kind of mode did he use because It was the first time we saw it.

And we don't know how he compares to his war saga RSM. But we do know that he has the best feats so far.


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## TheGreen1 (May 6, 2015)

Zuhaitz said:


> No, no and no.
> 
> We don't know if each Rinnegan has It's own unique set of powers aside from the regular ones.
> 
> ...



Remember, Naruto still has the pieces of Chakra from the beasts inside him, and that's all he ever needed. Naruto NEVER had the entirety of any of the other tailed beasts sealed within him.


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## Zuhaitz (May 6, 2015)

TheGreen1 said:


> Remember, Naruto still has the pieces of Chakra from the beasts inside him, and that's all he ever needed. Naruto NEVER had the entirety of any of the other tailed beasts sealed within him.



And those he still had those? Did he use any of the abilities of any other Bijuu aside from Kurama.

We don't know what mode he used, neither we know how those that mode compares to the most powerful mode he had on the war.

Imo he was much more powerful than he was when he fought Sasuke the last time.

Toneri=Naruto=Sasuke

But Toneri lacked battle experience and relied solely on his raw power.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (May 6, 2015)

TheGreen1 said:


> Remember, Naruto still has the pieces of Chakra from the beasts inside him, and that's all he ever needed. Naruto NEVER had the entirety of any of the other tailed beasts sealed within him.





Zuhaitz said:


> No, no and no.
> 
> We don't know if each Rinnegan has It's own unique set of powers aside from the regular ones.



Every Rinnegan user has used Preta Path and Chibaku Tensei when the need was there. That obviously indicates they have the same set of jutsu. 

The Rinnegan are Six Paths power, the same sort Obito was taught by Madara. Hence the former's ability with the Rinnegan when he got it.



> Kaguya didn't show Sasuke's teleportation nor Madara's Limbo.



Kaguya had a superior eye which offered better teleportation, which is actually teleportation, not swapping. 

She didn't use Limbo for the same reason she didn't use CT, she didn't need to. 
She did show an ability which is an awful lot like Preta Path, which functions like Preta Path. 

Nothing says each Rinnegan has unique jutsu. The only instances are that Madara showed there's another jutsu which it appears Nagato couldn't master the Rinnegan well enough to use. Sasuke demonstrated further that some Rinnegan can go beyond Limbo and awaken Amenojikara off the bat. 



> We know that at least one of the 9 Bijuus choose to live inside another person, leaving Naruto with 8 bijuus out of nine at most. And probably Naruto ended up just having 100% inside him and just a part of the chakra of rest at most.



Naruto has portions of each Bijuu, apart from Kurama. They can all communicate within Naruto. However, Naruto has enough chakra to be considered a Jinchuriki for them all. The appearance of the chakra mode he uses when he uses all their powers shows that.

Obviously what he used on Toneri wasn't that mode. 



> We don't know what kind of mode did he use because It was the first time we saw it.



It is the first time we saw him use KCMv1 after he got 100% Kurama and all the Bijuu's chakra portions.



> And we don't know how he compares to his war saga RSM. But we do know that he has the best feats so far.



We know his war saga KCMv1 lacked 100% Kurama and portions of all the other 8 Bijuu's chakra. His "The Last" mode has them, hence the different appearance.


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## Zuhaitz (May 6, 2015)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Every Rinnegan user has used Preta Path and Chibaku Tensei when the need was there. That obviously indicates they have the same set of jutsu.
> 
> The Rinnegan are Six Paths power, the same sort Obito was taught by Madara. Hence the former's ability with the Rinnegan when he got it.



Every Sharingan has the sharingan genjutsu hence every sharingan has the tsukiyomi, kotoamasuki etc.



Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Kaguya had a superior eye which offered better teleportation, which is actually teleportation, not swapping.
> 
> She didn't use Limbo for the same reason she didn't use CT, she didn't need to.
> She did show an ability which is an awful lot like Preta Path, which functions like Preta Path.
> ...



In fact there are solid indications of every rinnegan having It's own unique abilities. We saw what the regular set of power of the 6 paths of the rinnegan were, every other unique ability used by the characters are that, unique to them.

Every Rinnegan should have the powers of the 6 paths, and the actual owner of those eyes can also use an unique ability that none else has.



Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Naruto has portions of each Bijuu, apart from Kurama. They can all communicate within Naruto. However, Naruto has enough chakra to be considered a Jinchuriki for them all. The appearance of the chakra mode he uses when he uses all their powers shows that.
> 
> Obviously what he used on Toneri wasn't that mode.



And how does the mode he used compare to the RSM used against Sasuke? We don't know.

The feats Naruto has in the movie are far superior to the ones at the end of the manga, we can only conclude that Naruto was more powerful against Toneri than he was against Sasuke.



Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> It is the first time we saw him use KCMv1 after he got 100% Kurama and all the Bijuu's chakra portions.
> We know his war saga KCMv1 lacked 100% Kurama and portions of all the other 8 Bijuu's chakra. His "The Last" mode has them, hence the different appearance.



It's also the first time he is able to use the FRS in base or repel a moon cutting attack.

Naruto is more powerful in the movie than he was at the end of the manga based on the feats.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (May 6, 2015)

Zuhaitz said:


> Every Sharingan has the sharingan genjutsu hence every sharingan has the tsukiyomi, kotoamasuki etc.



Every unaltered MS has Tsukuyomi as the databooks and manga show. Koto type jutsu seem to be the product of having some of Hashirama's cells, but not 50% of it. 



> In fact there are solid indications of every rinnegan having It's own unique abilities. We saw what the regular set of power of the 6 paths of the rinnegan were, every other unique ability used by the characters are that, unique to them.
> 
> Every Rinnegan should have the powers of the 6 paths, and the actual owner of those eyes can also use an unique ability that none else has.



There have been no solid indications of what you claim. We saw one Rinnegan show us all the powers. We saw other characters showing additional powers the Rinnegan had. There wouldn't be much excitement with the Rinnegan if all its powers were revealed from the get-go.

The actual owners have the 6 Paths and Limbo+Amenojikara if they have the sufficient mastery. It seems Limbo comes from the right eye (two eyes enhance the power) whereas Amenojikara comes from the left. 

All users also have the chance to awaken the Rinnesharingan.

Same eye; same power.



> And how does the mode he used compare to the RSM used against Sasuke? We don't know.
> 
> The feats Naruto has in the movie are far superior to the ones at the end of the manga, we can only conclude that Naruto was more powerful against Toneri than he was against Sasuke.



Depends how much difference you think 100% Kurama within Naruto makes. However we know the KCMv1 mode in the Last, wasn't Naruto's Rikudou Sennin Mode.

The feats Naruto has in the movie don't say Naruto used anything beyond KCMv1. 

Now if Naruto *actually* used Rikudou Senjutsu on Toneri, then we can say The Last's Naruto's Rikudou Senjutsu outclasses the version of the form he used in the manga.



> It's also the first time he is able to use the FRS in base or repel a moon cutting attack.
> 
> Naruto is more powerful in the movie than he was at the end of the manga based on the feats.



That's a side effect of having Rikudou Senjutsu, it gave him the proper understanding of chakra according to the databook. 

Naruto's more powerful in the movie, sure. But that doesn't mean we should pretend he used his strongest chakra mode against Toneri.

I'm not willing to pretend Naruto use Rikudou Senjutsu on Toneri, nor am I willing to pretend that all Rinnegan don't have the same powers just because it gives some hope that Toneri can compete without having to absorb Sasuke's chakra from the get go.


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## KeyofMiracles (May 6, 2015)

Toneri lost to BSM Naruto. RSM Naruto is stronger. End of story.



Orochibuto said:


> Stop this "RS > BSM" bullshit, we DON'T KNOW what Naruto was using in The Last, it was never said. For all we know he merged his Rikudou Senjutsu in his Bijuu Mode making it more powerful while having less physical changes.
> 
> We can say for sure RS Naruto > BSM Naruto IN THE WAR, but we can't say it in the movie because we don't know.
> 
> Naruto in The Last had more time to train his abilities than the one that Sasuke fought, so it is perfectly possible (and in fact likely considering the tier of attacks Naruto tanked by himself) Naruto got way more powerful than he was in the war.



Movie guidebook makes it pretty clear that he used Kurama Chakra Mode enhanced by Senjutsu. We do know. You just aren't aware despite this info floating around for months now.

Naruto getting way more powerful than he was in the War doesn't mean that his ordinary Bijuu Mode will reach a level far beyond his RSM. Lmao.


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## Orochibuto (May 12, 2015)

Okay, I stand corrected. It was KCM, that doesn't mean that mode can't be stronger than war RSM.

Naruto blocked a MOON BUSTER, with ONE HAND only powering up that hand. This Naruto is leagues and bounds above war Naruto.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (May 12, 2015)

Orochibuto said:


> Okay, I stand corrected. It was KCM, that doesn't mean that mode can't be stronger than war RSM.
> 
> Naruto blocked a MOON BUSTER, with ONE HAND only powering up that hand. This Naruto is leagues and bounds above war Naruto.



War RSM has Juubi-like powers. It is hard to say that KCM will be on that level after 2 years. 

Needless to say, we're right in saying Toneri wasn't so powerful that Naruto needed anything beyond KCM-SM.


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## Orochibuto (May 12, 2015)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> War RSM has Juubi-like powers. It is hard to say that KCM will be on that level after 2 years.
> 
> Needless to say, we're right in saying Toneri wasn't so powerful that Naruto needed anything beyond KCM-SM.



Of course Toneri was powerful, he cut the moon in half. If Naruto didn't use anything above KCM then it doesn't mean Toneri is weak, it just mean Naruto is too strong.

Seriously, adult Naruto might as well be Kaguya level. If KCM Naruto blocked Toneri's moon busting attack with one hand while just powering that hand and nothing else, imagine what BSM and RSM Naruto can do.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (May 12, 2015)

Orochibuto said:


> Of course Toneri was powerful, he cut the moon in half. If Naruto didn't use anything above KCM then it doesn't mean Toneri is weak, it just mean Naruto is too strong.
> 
> Seriously, adult Naruto might as well be Kaguya level. If KCM Naruto blocked Toneri's moon busting attack with one hand while just powering that hand and nothing else, imagine what BSM and RSM Naruto can do.



Like I said, Toneri wasn't so powerful that Naruto didn't feel the need to use anything beyond KCM-SM. 

Kaguya level is only obtainable with the Shinju fruit. He blocked that attack after centralising his Senjutsu Kurama shroud onto his hand.


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## Orochibuto (May 12, 2015)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Like I said, Toneri wasn't so powerful that Naruto didn't feel the need to use anything beyond KCM-SM.
> 
> Kaguya level is only obtainable with the Shinju fruit. He blocked that attack after centralising his Senjutsu Kurama shroud onto his hand.



It doesn't matter, the fact is that KCM-SM war Naruto wouldn't tank that shit, by any stretch of the imagination, let alone overpower it.

And Naruto has 2 more transformations left with massive gaps between them! (BM and RSM)

Naruto didn't feel the need to go beyond KCM-SM, because Naruto became THAT powerful, not because Toneri was weak. Shinju fruit or not, Naruto might well be Kaguya level or beyond.

His KCM-SM is there with the Juubi Jinchuurikis, with Toneri being stated to be as strong as Madara. Base is fodder to KCM, KCM is fodder to BM and BM is fodder to RSM. I can see Naruto being up there with Kaguya if not stronger.

Imagine RSM Naruto in the war, now imagine if he had 2 more transformations left that made the previous form look like fodder, that is Naruto now.


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## Blu-ray (May 12, 2015)

Orochibuto said:


> Okay, I stand corrected. It was KCM, that doesn't mean that mode can't be stronger than war RSM.
> 
> Naruto blocked a MOON BUSTER, with ONE HAND only powering up that hand. This Naruto is leagues and bounds above war Naruto.



This BSM was never said to be stronger, and sure as hell didn't show anything remotely close to a Bijuudama Rasuriken or the Bijuu Rasenshuriken in terms of power, so I question what basis even is there to putting it on, let alone above the level of RSM other than wanting Naruto to be even more overpowered than he already is.

If his one claim is blocking Toneri's technique, that's not enough because that sure as hell wasn't beyond Rikudo SM Naruto's capabilities. And moon level is an exaggeration. It cut a hollow moon in half.



Orochibuto said:


> It doesn't matter, the fact is that KCM-SM war Naruto wouldn't tank that shit, by any stretch of the imagination, let alone overpower it.
> 
> And Naruto has 2 more transformations left with massive gaps between them! (BM and RSM)
> 
> ...



What is it with you and talking out the ass...

Naruto Kaguya level. No, just... no. And Toneri was never compared to Madara. Like... where did you even watch this movie?

This Naruto is obviously beyond what was in the war, not just in power but in skill since he focused all his chakra in his hand to stop it, but this one in the movie is not close to Rikudo Naruto. It's utterly ridiculous to put him even close, based on one feat that RSM can certainly replicate with more ease.


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## Source (May 13, 2015)

The moon isn't hollow and cutting the moon in that way is indeed moon level, judging by how fast the halves were moving after being split. This probably trumps anything RSM Naruto has done (at the very least physically), unless if you count him ripping Kaguya's arm off which was stupid.

I think this wasn't KCM however, the movie guidebook talked about releasing the full power of Kurama or something. Sounded more like BSM (or KCMV2 or whatever you guys call it - the equivalent to war arc BSM minus his mech).

Toneri = Madara was just a mistake in the wiki I believe.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (May 13, 2015)

To be honest we can never say it was more than KCM with SM activated considering it look like KCM. We know Naruto's BM, unlike Minato's, comes with a new appearance like the cloak tails.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (May 13, 2015)

Orochibuto said:


> It doesn't matter, the fact is that KCM-SM war Naruto wouldn't tank that shit, by any stretch of the imagination, let alone overpower it.
> 
> And Naruto has 2 more transformations left with massive gaps between them! (BM and RSM)
> 
> ...



The only difference between KCM-SM war Naruto and Naruto in The Last is that the latter can centralise his chakra shroud onto body parts like his hand or arm. 

I never said Toneri was that weak, I just said Toneri wasn't that strong. 
Naruto isn't on Kayuga's level considering what we know. 

Naruto's massive power up in the film was being able to centralise a chakra shroud onto parts of his body, that's it. Everything else seems the same as what war Naruto would be able to do should after he obtained all the Bijuu's power.

His KCM-SM isn't there with Juubi Jinchuriki. Toneri was never stated to be as strong as Madara, there is no source and the Naruto Wiki pulled that info out of their ass or from some source they could not source. Juubi Jinchuriki were more capable than Toneri. They can use the Nonobuko blade which can't be beaten unless you have mixed feels like Obito. 

Naruto improved, no doubt. However if I use The Last, all I can say is that Naruto can take all his chakra shrouds, KSM, BSM and RS, and centralise them onto body parts such as his arm.

Remember base Naruto's capabilities skyrocketed since becoming a Juubi type Jinchuriki. What you're seeing of the base Naruto in this film was a result of that. He has all the benefits of all the Bijuu amplified by the Senjutsu factor. Traits which enhance when he transforms. 

Naruto obviously trained, so he'd be significantly stronger because he built on the new ultra base mode granted to him by housing all the Bijuu. However Kayuga level is just nuts.

Kayuga was the one who was the source of Hagoromo and Hamura's powers. For all we know she had the Tenseigan, Rinnegan along with the Rinnesharingan... alongside ALL jutsu. She was the originator who probably had the ultimate copy eye. 

Kayuga's defeat was rushed to the point where we required obvious PNJ to beat her; Sakura was able to smack Kayuga despite the active Byakugan, really?


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## ShadoLord (May 13, 2015)

Toneri is like moon level, I doubt Sasuke could beat him.


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## sanninme rikudo (May 13, 2015)

Lord Wave said:


> Toneri is like moon level, I doubt Sasuke could beat him.


But, evidently, Naruto was able to drop Toneri with out the use of his RSM, whereas Sasuke was able to match and rival Naruto in that form. Plus, i'm assuming this is Sasuke where he is more use to the Rinne techs so that too augments his ways of victory. Also, although Naruto should have gotten strong by building upon his new found strength, the movie failed to show anything that was far above the caliber of what War Arc Naruto has shown. 

But then again, i could be wrong.


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## UchihaX28 (May 14, 2015)

sanninme rikudo said:


> But, evidently, Naruto was able to drop Toneri with out the use of his RSM, whereas Sasuke was able to match and rival Naruto in that form. Plus, i'm assuming this is Sasuke where he is more use to the Rinne techs so that too augments his ways of victory. Also, although Naruto should have gotten strong by building upon his new found strength, the movie failed to show anything that was far above the caliber of what War Arc Naruto has shown.
> 
> But then again, i could be wrong.



 Considering Sasuke managed to grasp the Rinnegan's skills in such a short amount of time from the battle with Juubidara to the VoTE, he should be more accustomed with the Rinnegan and have far superior feats with it considering a few years is considerably longer than the time gap between Sasuke attaining his powers and the battle at VoT, so I do think your assumption is correct here.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (May 14, 2015)

Considering he's only got one Rinnegan, Sasuke can probably only use one Limbo body. Though Toneri should be able to sense it, or even see it. But the distraction it'll cause should give Sasuke enough time to land a devastating blow... probably with an attack which will always catch the foe off-guard, Shinra Tensei... with Amenojikara getting Sasuke at an angle where he'll do the most damage.



sanninme rikudo said:


> But, evidently, Naruto was able to drop Toneri with out the use of his RSM, whereas Sasuke was able to match and rival Naruto in that form. Plus, i'm assuming this is Sasuke where he is more use to the Rinne techs so that too augments his ways of victory. Also, although Naruto should have gotten strong by building upon his new found strength, the movie failed to show anything that was far above the caliber of what War Arc Naruto has shown.
> 
> But then again, i could be wrong.



All the film showed was that Naruto can centralise his KCM-SM shroud onto one body part (like his arm). Everything else is more or less similar to what War Arc Naruto should be capable of.


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## KeyofMiracles (May 18, 2015)

Orochibuto said:


> *Okay, I stand corrected. It was KCM, that doesn't mean that mode can't be stronger than war RSM.*
> 
> Naruto blocked a MOON BUSTER, with ONE HAND only powering up that hand. This Naruto is leagues and bounds above war Naruto.



Kyuubi Sage powers being stronger than RIKUDO Kyuubi Sage Powers? Lol, no. Especially when there are only 2 years in between both Naruto's.

"Only" powering up that hand? Lol. He focused ALL his power into that hand and blew past Toneri's attack. He didn't block anything, nor did he produce enough power to bust the Moon unless you want to tell me that Toneri can survive a focused Moon Busting punch. Unless you want to tell me that the damage Naruto's punch did to the Moon was Island Busting let alone Moon Busting level.

Sage KCM Naruto is NOT stronger than peak Rikudo Sage Mode Naruto. Absolutely no way.


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## Mar55 (Jul 12, 2018)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Duel of the strongest Dojutsu users of the series


Old, but worth correcting. Neither of the 2 people in this thread are the strongest Dojutsu users in the series.


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## Mar55 (Jul 12, 2018)

KeyofMiracles said:


> Unless you want to tell me that the damage Naruto's punch did to the Moon was Island Busting let alone Moon Busting level.


This looks like a classic case of not understanding aoe =/= potency.


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## Strykervenom (Jul 12, 2018)

Amenojikara + Sword = Toneri's death


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