# Evangelion Unit 1 vs. Heisei Godzilla



## Hellspawn28 (Apr 18, 2009)

Who would win? Sorry if someone did this topic before?

Rules: 

- This is Godzilla Heisei 91-95. 
- Evangelion Unit 01 is 100 meters and a reasonable weight for that size.
- Evagelion Unit 01 can use it AT field
- Eva Unit-01 has it?s S2 Engine
- Eva Unit-01 is being piloted by Shinji Ikari 
- Eva Unit 01 is equipped with Progressive Knife, sub-machine guns, and that it 
- Eva Unit 01 can't go berserk 
- No outside interferance 

Arena: Tokyo 3

My Vote: I think Godzilla would win but it won't easy since Unit 01 has great weapon combat, it pretty fast and was able to fight against foes like Sahaqiel and Unit 03 that are pretty strong but Godzilla was able surrived through molten earth and survive without a scratch. I don't think the Progressive Knife will do any effect since Godzilla has good regen that can heal fast and if he can destory the power cable then Eva Unit 01 is screw since she only has five mins to fight. 

Data on both fighters can be view here:

Eva Unit 01

90's Godzilla


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Apr 18, 2009)

Hellspawn28 said:


> if he can destory the power cable then Eva Unit 01 is screw since she only has five mins to fight.


O'rly?



> - Eva Unit-01 has it?s S2 Engine


You remember what that does right?


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## Fang (Apr 18, 2009)

Heisei Godzilla has collapsed and caused tectonic plates to shift when fighting Battra under water.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Apr 18, 2009)

Adam blew up Antartica with an out of control S2 engine/organ.


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## Raigen (Apr 18, 2009)

Shinji liquified the human race.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Apr 18, 2009)

Lol no, that was Lilith fused with Adam.


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## Raigen (Apr 18, 2009)

Really? Thought it was Shinji in Unit 1 when the weak little bitch finally lost it in the end.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Apr 18, 2009)

No. Lilith was generating the AATF that did it and on top of that appeared to like everyone as it happened. She did it because Shinji wished for it in his looney state.


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## Raigen (Apr 18, 2009)

I still wonder why no one killed the whiny little bastard.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Apr 18, 2009)

How the fuck do you kill a kid that has artifical gods looking out for him?
And on that note I noticed something, you piled mad PIS on Yui...


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## Abigail (Apr 18, 2009)

Going with Godzilla in a massive shitstomp.


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## Comic Book Guy (Apr 19, 2009)

I'm not even sure if creatures like Godzilla would even have a soul, thus AT field.


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## ScreenXSurfer (Apr 19, 2009)

What defines a soul?


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## madcow3005 (Apr 19, 2009)

ScreenXSurfer said:


> What defines a soul?



Apparently a sense of self-awareness.

In Evangelion, the "soul" was what kept your mind separate from others, allowing you to think of the concept of "self." Without it, your body dissolved into primordial goo.

Godzilla could be argued as sentient in some movies, so he might be capable of generating an AT field.


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## Red (Apr 19, 2009)

madcow3005 said:


> Apparently a sense of self-awareness.
> 
> In Evangelion, the "soul" was what kept your mind separate from others, allowing you to think of the concept of "self." Without it, your body dissolved into primordial goo.
> 
> Godzilla could be argued as sentient in some movies, so he might be capable of generating an AT field.


Everyone is capable of an AT-field but it won't matter in this fight at all.

What tech does EVA-unit one get and what are heisei godzilla's feats?


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## Lucifeller (Apr 19, 2009)

I really don't see an Evangelion tanking an Atomic Spiral Ray. Even assuming it could, I'm pretty sure the Ray packs enough milli-rad to fry Shinji inside his plug, which pretty much auto-ends the battle since it's stipulated it can't go berserk.


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## Red (Apr 19, 2009)

Lucifeller said:


> I really don't see an Evangelion tanking an Atomic Spiral Ray. Even assuming it could, I'm pretty sure the Ray packs enough milli-rad to fry Shinji inside his plug, which pretty much auto-ends the battle since it's stipulated it can't go berserk.


I'm asking how strong the ray is and no one seems to be answering..


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## The last Dalek (Apr 19, 2009)

Raigen said:


> I still wonder why no one killed the whiny little bastard.



In all fairness Shinji wasnt that bad until EOE. Before then he was a whiny but sympathetic person (every time he whined he had good reason to) who always managed to pull through and do the right thing in the end inspite of his emotional weakness. Then EOE happend and his personalty got replaced with the week fool we had in that movie.

I think your realy missing the point of Shinji he's not ment to be some fantastical hero he's ment to be how a real person would act in that situation.
And dont try claiming you would cope better than he did in that situation. There's no fucking way anny of us could.

Annyway on topic I think 01 could beat pre upgrade Hessei G but looses against the upgraded Godzilla from Godzilla vs King Ghidorah onwards.

and Red the Spiral ray was powerfull enough to one shot Kaiju that could no sell his normal blast wich was more or less the force of a nuke condenced into a beam.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Apr 19, 2009)

The last Dalek said:


> Then EOE happend and his personalty got replaced with the week fool we had in that movie.



That's what happens when a 4 billion year old artificial god trapped in Lilim form tells you they love you because you're as pathetic as they always wished they could be and makes you kill them. Wait, what!? Anno sure loved to shit on his characters.


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## Fang (Apr 19, 2009)

Heisei Godzilla fully charged is above city-busting with his Atomic Spiral Ray. His strength is already monsterous, ignorning his physical size, and Godzilla has absorbed the souls of three immortal Daikaijuus, along with being the walking incarnation of all souls killed by the Japanese in World War 2.


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## The last Dalek (Apr 19, 2009)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> That's what happens when a 4 billion year old artificial god trapped in Lilim form tells you they love you because you're as pathetic as they always wished they could be and makes you kill them. Wait, what!? Anno sure loved to shit on his characters.



But even then he ultimatly pulled through and did what he had to. It wasnt untill EOE that Shinji went down the shiter.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Apr 19, 2009)

I'll forgive him for breaking down after being forced to kill someone who said they loved him at the worst possible time...


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## The last Dalek (Apr 19, 2009)

I think your missing the point while he was shown to be severly depressed right after he killed Kuwaru in sereis but not to the extent that he was in EOE.

Anny way do we both agree that he's much stronger as a person than most people give him credit for.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Apr 19, 2009)

Lol no, he said he should have died instead of Kaworu.


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## Lucifeller (Apr 19, 2009)

The whole 'I wank off over Asuka's comatose body' part is what buried Shinji for me.

Dude, no. You just don't do that. I don't care what kinda trauma you went through, that's just plain hideously wrong.


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## Red (Apr 19, 2009)

Lucifeller said:


> The whole 'I wank off over Asuka's comatose body' part is what buried Shinji for me.
> 
> Dude, no. You just don't do that. I don't care what kinda trauma you went through, that's just plain hideously wrong.


Yeah that whole scene came out of fucking nowhere.

As for the thread I'm pretty sure Unit 01 will win this. He's fast enough to dodge all of Godzilla's attacks and he would be able to do damage with a prog-knife which cut things at a molecular level or just rip him apart with his bare hands.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Apr 19, 2009)

Lucifeller said:


> Dude, no. You just don't do that. I don't care what kinda trauma you went through, that's just plain hideously wrong.



Meh, that stops being a big deal when you realize she came onto him for it... It's like you gotta give him a free pass on everything don't ya Anno?


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## Abigail (Apr 19, 2009)

Red said:


> Yeah that whole scene came out of fucking nowhere.
> 
> As for the thread I'm pretty sure Unit 01 will win this. He's fast enough to dodge all of Godzilla's attacks and he would be able to do damage with a prog-knife which cut things at a molecular level or just rip him apart with his bare hands.



Considering Godzilla has a city busting level attack I don't think Unit-1 is dodging.


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## Seyta (Apr 19, 2009)

Red said:


> Yeah that whole scene came out of fucking nowhere.
> 
> As for the thread I'm pretty sure Unit 01 will win this. He's fast enough to dodge all of Godzilla's attacks and he would be able to do damage with a prog-knife which cut things at a molecular level or just rip him apart with his bare hands.



I can't see Unit 01 winning.

Godzilla's regenerated from being just a beating heart before, so I can't imagine anything overcoming THAT.

Speed doesn't count that much here.

Statistically, King Ghidorah, Mothra, and Battra all fly at speeds ranging from Supersonic to Hypersonic, and Godzilla's never had a problem hitting them.

That being said, when Heisei Godzilla dies, the nuclear reactor core that's located in his heart goes into overdrive, and if technical and nuclear scientists who built SuperMechaGodzilla are to be trusted, he wipes out the planet with him.

If Godzilla kills Unit 01, he wins
If Unit 01 kills Godzilla, its more or less a tie.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Apr 19, 2009)

Now for the real question, Yui wielding the full power of Eva-01... j/k.


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## Hellspawn28 (Apr 20, 2009)

> Adam blew up Antartica with an out of control S2 engine/organ.



That was Adam and Godzilla fight against him then that would be a totaly different battle. Seeing that Godzilla fight against foes like Space Godzilla and Super MechaGodzilla who are much stronger then Sachiel and Zeruel, then I don't see why Godzilla can't win this battle.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Apr 20, 2009)

All S2 organs should be able to produce the same amout of power, the question is if the individual bodies can store it to that level. Eva-00 leveled a city without a S2 organ and I imagine Eva-01 would do significantly more damage. Doubtful it will be Adam level but it's still gonna be fing big.


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## The last Dalek (Apr 20, 2009)

Hellspawn28 said:


> That was Adam and Godzilla fight against him then that would be a totaly different battle. Seeing that Godzilla fight against foes like Space Godzilla and Super MechaGodzilla who are much stronger then Sachiel and Zeruel, then I don't see why Godzilla can't win this battle.



Not to mention his meltdown form blowing up would destroy the earth wich trumps Adam's wiping a 3rd of the worlds population when he whent boom.

It's a good thing rebuild will have a different ending hopfuly Anno wont remove every redemable qualaty Shinji has this time around.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Apr 20, 2009)

Ok really, how does it go down with Yui in control and Eva-01 with all 12 wings?


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## Red (Apr 20, 2009)

Hellspawn28 said:


> That was Adam and Godzilla fight against him then that would be a totaly different battle. Seeing that Godzilla fight against foes like Space Godzilla and Super MechaGodzilla who are much stronger then Sachiel and Zeruel, then I don't see why Godzilla can't win this battle.


Eva unit 01 was able to rip his way out of an alternate dimension Dirac sea. That feat translates to Unit 01 fucking Godzilla up with his bare hands. 



Ranmyaku Arashi said:


> Considering Godzilla has a city busting level attack I don't think Unit-1 is dodging.


If he can't dodge then he tanks it with ease.



Seyta said:


> I can't see Unit 01 winning.
> 
> Godzilla's regenerated from being just a beating heart before, so I can't imagine anything overcoming THAT.


Ripping the heart apart into tinier pieces? Also how fast is the regen. If he Godzilla can't regenerate instantly then it makes it kind of useless in battle.


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## The last Dalek (Apr 20, 2009)

Red said:


> Eva unit 01 was able to rip his way out of an alternate dimension Dirac sea. That feat translates to Unit 01 fucking Godzilla up with his bare hands.
> 
> 
> If he can't dodge then he tanks it with ease.
> ...



How's Unit one ment to tank a planate busting explosion when meltdown Godzilla self destructs


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## Red (Apr 20, 2009)

The last Dalek said:


> How's Unit one ment to tank a planate busting explosion when meltdown Godzilla self destructs


Nothing, it's a draw but it sure as hell isn't a loss.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Apr 20, 2009)

Red said:


> Eva unit 01 was able to rip his way out of an alternate dimension Dirac sea.



Which had everything to do with Yui reversing the ATF that maintained it thus inverting it. Shinji can't do that.


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## Red (Apr 20, 2009)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> Which had everything to do with Yui reversing the ATF that maintained it thus inverting it. Shinji can't do that.


Shinji can do it, he does it all the time when fighting Angels. Hell every Child knows how to do it that's the entire point of having EVAs fight angels to have them nullify the AT fields.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Apr 20, 2009)

He can't do it because he can't find the ATF. He sat their until Yui saved him by taking over. Asuka said it was impossible for them to fight.


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## Red (Apr 20, 2009)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> He can't do it because he can't find the ATF. He sat their until Yui saved him by taking over. Asuka said it was impossible for them to fight.


The ATF was inside the Leliel so the only way to neutralize/detect the ATF was from the inside out.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Apr 20, 2009)

Yes I know but Leliel shut down all of the sensory data to the plug. Shinji couldn't do anything. It took Yui taking control to find it and reverse it.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Apr 20, 2009)

Red said:


> Eva unit 01 was able to rip his way out of an alternate dimension Dirac sea. That feat translates to Unit 01 fucking Godzilla up with his bare hands.



I thought ripping through alternate dimensions was unquantifiable 

Otherwise the Gotenks feat would be considered more impresive


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Apr 20, 2009)

She didn't rip through it anyways. Only Leliel after it was inverted into our world.


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## Red (Apr 20, 2009)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> I thought ripping through alternate dimensions was unquantifiable
> 
> Otherwise the Gotenks feat would be considered more impresive


Ripping through dimensions is unquantifiable but it's actually the nature of the Dirac sea that makes this feat useful. The AT field protected unit-01 from an entire universe of negative energy that makes it fucking powerful. Evas can use their AT-field as an offensive weapon.



Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> Yes I know but Leliel shut down all of the sensory data to the plug. Shinji couldn't do anything. It took Yui taking control to find it and reverse it.


So that means shinji's inability to neutralize the field wasn't because he couldn't do it but because he had no sensory output. But in this case he can see/hear/sense stuff and can fight accordingly.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Apr 20, 2009)

Entire universe of negative energy doesn't tell me much


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## Fang (Apr 20, 2009)

Heisei Godzilla gives off shockwave nuclear blasts when angry.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Apr 20, 2009)

Can we just say Godzilla wins because he's fucking Godzilla


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## Fang (Apr 20, 2009)

I think the consensus already is that Godzilla wins.

But we all know that the King of Monsters wins every time, regardless.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Apr 20, 2009)

Red said:


> The AT field protected unit-01 from an entire universe of negative energy that makes it fucking powerful.


No it didn't. The only thing the Eva had running was life support.



> So that means shinji's inability to neutralize the field wasn't because he couldn't do it but because he had no sensory output. But in this case he can see/hear/sense stuff and can fight accordingly.


 My whole point was it's not valid cause it's not Shinji's feat. Yui did it.


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## Red (Apr 20, 2009)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> Entire universe of negative energy doesn't tell me much


A universe filled with infinite energy 



Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> No it didn't. The only thing the Eva had running was life support.


How do you explain unit-01 wasn't completely destroyed?



> My whole point was it's not valid cause it's not Shinji's feat. Yui did it.


And my counter point is that shinji does it all the time the only reason he didn't this time was because he couldn't sense it. You understand what you're saying? You're saying because Yui stepped in for him we have to ignore the countless other times shinji has negated an AT field. That's ridiculous.


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## NU-KazeKage (Apr 20, 2009)

look when godzilla fights anything regardless on if its stronger then him or not he wins cause HES GODZILLA!

but seriously if he dosnt fire his lazer right off the bat shinji could run up and decapitate him or somthing i guess.


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## Lucifeller (Apr 20, 2009)

NU-KazeKage said:


> look when godzilla fights anything regardless on if its stronger then him or not he wins cause HES GODZILLA!
> 
> but seriously if he dosnt fire his lazer right off the bat shinji could run up and decapitate him or somthing i guess.



No, Shinji would run up and get a Kaijuu Dropkick to the face.

Rodan flies at Mach 4 minimum according to the creators, and Godzilla had absolutely no trouble wtfpwning him in their encounters, speed difference or not.


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## Red (Apr 20, 2009)

Lucifeller said:


> No, Shinji would run up and get a Kaijuu Dropkick to the face.
> 
> Rodan flies at Mach 4 minimum according to the creators, and Godzilla had absolutely no trouble wtfpwning him in their encounters, speed difference or not.


Mach 4? Shinji caught Sahaquiel in mid re-entry from a couple meters. Typical re-entry speeds are mach 23. Eva still speed blitzes.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Apr 20, 2009)

Red said:


> How do you explain unit-01 wasn't completely destroyed?


Cause it was in Leliel's true body. The striped ball was Leliel's shadow. It turned black as soon as Yui attacked it (from the inside) indication the Eva wasn't sitting in the actual energy. There, no insane durability feats way out of line with the rest of the series. Or we could just assume since the Eva was made out of the same matter, possibly sharing part of it's genome with the Angels (let's face it, it looks alot like Adam) it was simply immune. Personally I prefer the former.




> And my counter point is that shinji does it all the time the only reason he didn't this time was because he couldn't sense it. You understand what you're saying? You're saying because Yui stepped in for him we have to ignore the countless other times shinji has negated an AT field. That's ridiculous.


Since we don't even know if he could preceive an inverted ATF, or ANYTHING in that dimension no it's not. The Evas sensors couldn't detect squat. And it wasn't ripping through a dimension so stop calling it that. When the ATF was neutralized Leliel was forced into our dimension.


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## Fang (Apr 20, 2009)

I believe that Rodan has been calced at over mach 60 in one instance but I don't have that link anymore.


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## Lucifeller (Apr 20, 2009)

Red said:


> Mach 4? Shinji caught Sahaquiel in mid re-entry from a couple meters. Typical re-entry speeds are mach 23. Eva still speed blitzes.



Sahaquiel was hovering at super-high altitude (not in ORBIT, my man, the only Angel that was in orbit all the time while attacking was Arael, the mindrape angel) and dropping pieces of itself, that would otherwise have been vaporized by reentry heat and their own tendency to explode, on Tokyo-3.

For your information, if you are high up enough, even anti-air fire is useless on you, as airplanes other than bombers usually can't go over 12000 feet, and bombers are useless against an Angel. They had to wait until it dropped in altitude, but it sure as hell was NOT in atmospheric reentry.

Seriously, this particular misconception is nearly as bad as 'Dante survived atmospheric reentry'...

Also, the Evangelion units ALL caught Sahaquiel, because they needed to coordinate an attack on its core before it dropped itself and reduced all of Tokyo-3 to a giant glowing crater. They literally prepared for it, and even then they had to push the Evangelions to their limits and nearly didn't make it in time from a relatively short distance.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Apr 20, 2009)

Lucifeller said:


> Seriously, this particular misconception is nearly as bad as 'Dante survived atmospheric reentry'...



That's pretty bad

Must have confused Dante for Samurai Jack


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## Lucifeller (Apr 20, 2009)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> That's pretty bad
> 
> Must have confused Dante for Samurai Jack



No, it's just Devil May Cry fanboys who can't understand that THERE ARE NO CLOUDS IN SPACE, so Mundus's pocket room sure as hell wasn't space...


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## The World (Apr 20, 2009)

Dante could survive atmospheric reentry though, he can just regen from the bloody mess that would be his body. He obviously has no problem with heat.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmHdLB6f5A8[/YOUTUBE]

And could Eva unit 01 kill Godzilla if he used the positron rifle backed by all the city's power?

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHKQFaZfP4A[/YOUTUBE]


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## Seyta (Apr 21, 2009)

NU-KazeKage said:


> look when godzilla fights anything regardless on if its stronger then him or not he wins cause HES GODZILLA!
> 
> but seriously if he dosnt fire his lazer right off the bat shinji could run up and decapitate him or somthing i guess.



Godzilla has Regeneration abilities.

And if Shinji DOES put him out for good, he has an auto-self-destruct that wipes out a planet.

The best that could be pulled off against Godzilla is a tie more or less.



TWF said:


> I believe that Rodan has been calced at over mach 60 in one instance but I don't have that link anymore.



If we take a step away from Rodan and consider the Mothra movies Canon in this situation, Lightspeed Mothra > Anything Unit01 could ever pull out.


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## Red (Apr 21, 2009)

Lucifeller said:


> Sahaquiel was hovering at super-high altitude (not in ORBIT, my man, the only Angel that was in orbit all the time while attacking was Arael, the mindrape angel) and dropping pieces of itself, that would otherwise have been vaporized by reentry heat and their own tendency to explode, on Tokyo-3.


 (Time 1:13) Sahaquiel was scanned by two satellites which is subsequently destroyed. Satellites orbit at the low orbit altitudes *at the minimum*.



> Also, the Evangelion units ALL caught Sahaquiel, because they needed to coordinate an attack on its core before it dropped itself and reduced all of Tokyo-3 to a giant glowing crater.


Actually shinji was the first to catch it;
 2:40-4:30

and he held it till asuka and rei came.



> They literally prepared for it, and even then they had to push the Evangelions to their limits and nearly didn't make it in time from a relatively short distance.


Yes they prepared for it but magi could only pin point the area to a kilometer radius. So Shinji and company were several meters away and running blind without magi's help.



Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> Cause it was in Leliel's true body. The striped ball was Leliel's shadow. *It turned black as soon as Yui attacked it (from the inside) indication the Eva wasn't sitting in the actual energy.*


 This was explicitly stated to be a Dirac sea by a couple scientists with read outs from magi. A Dirac sea by it's very nature is a bundle of energy.


> Or we could just assume since the Eva was made out of the same matter, possibly sharing part of it's genome with the Angels (let's face it, it looks alot like Adam) it was simply immune. Personally I prefer the former.


Doesn't make sense the angel can be seen as a portal to another dimension with it's insides directly linked to a sea of vacuum energy I don't see anything that implies that EVAs are made from that at all. The only option is to think that Yui protected shinji and the only way that's possible is with an AT field. Remember AT-fields are connected directly to ones soul not an external output like battery so even if unit-01 was using the bare minimum and had zero battery life that doesn't mean yui didn't protect shinji.



> Since we don't even know if he could preceive an inverted ATF, or ANYTHING in that dimension no it's not. *The Evas sensors couldn't detect squat.*


Yes they could. Plan B was to have Rei and Asuka neutralize the AT field. Point is Shinji could have done it but because of PIS or Shinji just being shinji and freaking out he didn't. Why should we ignore all the previous instances of shinji neutralizing AT-fields and the fact that EVA's neutralize AT-fields just because of this one instance of PIS?

Even disregarding Leilal's feat Eva unit can tank what ever godzilla throws at him. He's taken anything from mountain busting attacks to ones that could destroy a significant portion of Japan with *ease*. Godzilla isn't taking him down.

As for speed until I get proof of mothra's lightspeed flight I'm skeptical that godzilla won't be speed blitzed.

Even with his regen I wonder how much he can take. With nuke level AT-field attacks and his tech (Prog knife, positron rifles etc) I doubt godzilla would survive a prolonged assualt.



			
				seyta said:
			
		

> Godzilla has Regeneration abilities.


How quickly can godzilla regen?


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## The last Dalek (Apr 21, 2009)

Seyta said:


> Godzilla has Regeneration abilities.
> 
> And if Shinji DOES put him out for good, he has an auto-self-destruct that wipes out a planet.



That only happen when Godzilla is in his meltdown form and killing him dosnt make him self destruct it actualy happens when he reache's critical mass but he steadaly gets more powerful until he goes boom.


For Red Godzilla's regen was dam fast when Desotroyah sliced him nearly in half he reacted in pain for a coupled seconds and then careid on marching. It's hard to find examples of his regen because very few things actualy do anny damage.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Apr 21, 2009)

Red said:


> This was explicitly stated to be a Dirac sea by a couple scientists with read outs from magi. A Dirac sea by it's very nature is a bundle of energy.


I have doubts it's a Dirac sea the way current science sees it.



> Doesn't make sense the angel can be seen as a portal to another dimension with it's insides directly linked to a sea of vacuum energy I don't see anything that implies that EVAs are made from that at all.


The Angels shapeshift into all that wacky stuff somehow.



> The only option is to think that Yui protected shinji and the only way that's possible is with an AT field. Remember AT-fields are connected directly to ones soul not an external output like battery so even if unit-01 was using the bare minimum and had zero battery life that doesn't mean yui didn't protect shinji.


Did she protect the power cable after it broke off? Cause apparently only the other end was missing...


			
				Platinum subs said:
			
		

> RITSUKO (OFF):
> They reeled the umbilical cable back in, but the other end was missing.


IIRC they show it being reeled in just fine. Houston, we have a MASSIVE problem...




> Yes they could. Plan B was to have Rei and Asuka neutralize the AT field.





			
				Platinum subs said:
			
		

> RITSUKO:
> It's the only possibility that might work.
> We would drop all 992 existing N2 mines into its center,
> while simultaneously activating the AT Fields of the remaining Evas,
> ...


Nothing about neutralizing it's ATF.



> Point is Shinji could have done it but because of PIS or Shinji just being shinji and freaking out he didn't. Why should we ignore all the previous instances of shinji neutralizing AT-fields and the fact that EVA's neutralize AT-fields just because of this one instance of PIS?


I'm not saying he can't neutralize ATFs I'm saying we don't know if he could neutralize this one. We don't know how Yui did it. Did it require her to invert her ATF? If so could Shinji do the same? Could he understand what he was seeing to find Leliel or did it require an Evas sixth sense? Did Yui have to fight Leliel? If so could Shinji beat it to do what Yui did? There are too many unknowns to allow Shinji to use this feat in any battle.


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## Red (Apr 21, 2009)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> I have doubts it's a Dirac sea the way current science sees it.


 NGE follows science enough that we can believe the character statements.



> The Angels shapeshift into all that wacky stuff somehow.


That doesn't prove that the resemblance between EVA's and Angel are enough to protect it from being atomized in a sea of energy. Also like I said before AT-fields are projected by the soul not limited to battery life. It's plausible that yui protected shinji using her own AT-field.



> Did she protect the power cable after it broke off? Cause apparently only the other end was missing...
> 
> IIRC they show it being reeled in just fine. Houston, we have a MASSIVE problem...


And you bring this up why?



> Nothing about neutralizing it's ATF.


Did you read what you posted?




> A.T. Fields to interfere with the imaginary circuit of the Angel.





			
				wiki said:
			
		

> The Evas can also generate their own AT Fields, and can use them to neutralize the Angels' AT Fields through destructive interference.


It' seems pretty obious that they where instructed to neutralize the ATF so they could multinuke it.


> I'm not saying he can't neutralize ATFs I'm saying we don't know if he could neutralize this one. We don't know how Yui did it. Did it require her to invert her ATF? If so could Shinji do the same? Could he understand what he was seeing to find Leliel or did it require an Evas sixth sense? Did Yui have to fight Leliel? If so could Shinji beat it to do what Yui did? There are too many unknowns to allow Shinji to use this feat in any battle.


He could neutralize this one if he had forewarning about the particular nature of it. Since asuka and rei had been briefed they could also neutralize this, if shinji had the same knowledge there is no reason he couldn't do the same.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Apr 21, 2009)

Red said:


> NGE follows science enough that we can believe the character statements.


Not it this particular case.



> That doesn't prove that the resemblance between EVA's and Angel are enough to protect it from being atomized in a sea of energy.


Leliel's core, or whatever the sphere was, was just fine.



> Also like I said before AT-fields are projected by the soul not limited to battery life. It's plausible that yui protected shinji using her own AT-field.


If she hadn't waited till he was nearly dead I'd buy that. Since she did wait I'm not certain she was aware of what was going on until she revealed herself. And if she was it makes her a lame parent, something she was never shown to be.



> And you bring this up why?


The power cable that had no protective field got pulled through that supposed sea of energy just missing it's end. Hardly makes it seem particularly dangerous IMHO.




> It' seems pretty obious that they where instructed to neutralize the ATF so they could multinuke it.


Really? sounded to me like they were supposed to hold the gate open long enough for Leliel to get hit by the full blast. FYI, that imaginary circuit is the thing that allows the reflection to appear and disappear.


			
				Platinum subs said:
			
		

> MISATO:
> What about the sphere?
> 
> RITSUKO:
> ...


Besides that we don't even know if it would have worked.




> He could neutralize this one if he had forewarning about the particular nature of it.


No proof.


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## The World (Apr 21, 2009)

So yeah, nobody answered my question, can Zilla survive a positron rifle blast through the head?


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Apr 21, 2009)

Red said:


> Why? burden of proof is on you to give us a reason why we wouldn't


Because the cable wasn't damage. If the trope protects the cable it protects the Eva no ATF (or logic) needed.



> It is not know whether it has a core and not all angels have cores. Humans don't have cores, Iruel didn't have a core, Armisael didn't have a core so it isn't entirely out there that it didn't have a core.


In Adam derived Angels the core holds the soul so they probably have one even if you can't see it. Anyway, I never said I liked the immunity idea so let's drop it...

Wait, you're basing this off wikipedia? That can be edited by anyone? Sorry I'll stick with the script.



> RITSUKO:
> Correct. It's six hundred eighty meters in diameter
> with a thickness of three nanometers.
> The ultra-thin space is supported by an inwardly-directed AT Field.
> ...





> RITSUKO:
> It's the only possibility that might work.
> We would drop all 992 existing N2 mines into its center,
> while simultaneously activating the AT Fields of the remaining Evas,
> ...


She is quite clearly talking about the gate that connects Leliel to our dimension, NOT the ATF.



> Speculation ground in sensible assumptions based on past experiences from the characters.


Speculation based off of wikipedia is fail as I have clearly proven.


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## Seyta (Apr 21, 2009)

Roxxas said:


> So yeah, nobody answered my question, can Zilla survive a positron rifle blast through the head?



Zilla, no.

Heisei Godzilla, yes.


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## Red (Apr 21, 2009)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> Because the cable wasn't damage. If the trope protects the cable it protects the Eva no ATF (or logic) needed.


 Tropes do not follow logic and using a trope to try to disprove canon statements from credible sources is absurd.




> Wait, you're basing this off wikipedia? That can be edited by anyone? Sorry I'll stick with the script.
> 
> She is quite clearly talking about the gate that connects Leliel to our dimension, NOT the ATF.


Shooting yourself in the foot, that gate is the ATF. It's what the angel used to pull victims into it's self/the dirac sea/ alternate universe. Neutralizing the ATF holds it in this plane and stops it from dissipating. This was obvious and inferred a shitton ton of times.



> Speculation based off of wikipedia is fail as I have clearly proven.


This speculation is based off of shinji's past performance. If he had known what he was getting into he would have dealt with this accordingly, asuka makes mention of this.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Apr 21, 2009)

Red said:


> Tropes do not follow logic and using a trope to try to disprove canon statements from credible sources is absurd.


As opposed to entertaining the idea that Ramiel and Zeruel put out more power than a sea of energy? Also the subcouncious ATF idea doesn't work because of the power supressing armor.



> Shooting yourself in the foot, that gate is the ATF. It's what the angel used to pull victims into it's self/the dirac sea/ alternate universe.


No it isn't. It is described completely seperate from the ATF. It's simply a dimensional gateway that is more that likely opened and closed by the ATF. And again, we don't even know if the plan would have worked. 



> Neutralizing the ATF holds it in this plane and stops it from dissipating.


Neutralizing the ATF forcefully inverted the dimension and ripped it to shreds. Preventing the door from closing lets it get hit by the full blast in theory.



> This speculation is based off of shinji's past performance. If he had known what he was getting into he would have dealt with this accordingly, asuka makes mention of this.


Like she said it was impossible to fight Leliel? Character opinions aren't proof.


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## Lucifeller (Apr 22, 2009)

> Dante could survive atmospheric reentry though, he can just regen from the bloody mess that would be his body. He obviously has no problem with heat.



What bloody mess? At the speed at which uncontrolled atmospheric reentry is performed, even slamming into water is like bashing into a concrete wall. You hit the ground? You won't be a mess, you will be a billion bloody CONFETTI, and given how Dante can't survive getting his head separated from the body (remember, Phantom's cutscene instakill is it eating Dante's head right off his neck), I'm pretty sure getting broken to bits will kill him. Hell, he was about to keel over from his wounds after Vergil beat him in the ground, and he was nowhere near as pasted as he'd be if he smashed in the ground from orbit.


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## The World (Apr 22, 2009)

Gameplay mechanics don't count. And he would still regen from that.

He can also increase his durability by going Sparda DT. Or fly away.


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## Lucifeller (Apr 23, 2009)

Roxxas said:


> Gameplay mechanics don't count. And he would still regen from that.
> 
> He can also increase his durability by going Sparda DT. Or fly away.



Getting killed by Phantom activates a specific cutscene death. It's cutscene power, not gameplay power.

Also, the Sparda DT is pretty much only available in Hell, where Sparda's power is at its maximum. Making a case for it being available outside that is... not advisable. It is no coincidence that it's basically never available outside Hell, barring special modes of play...

Edit: and flying away? Dude, a planet's gravitational well doesn't work that way. Even rocket-propelled ships can't disengage atmospheric reentry once they are caught in it.


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## The World (Apr 23, 2009)

Yes because magic flying demons work the same way as rockets. 

And he would still live from atmospheric reentry.


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## Red (Apr 23, 2009)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> As opposed to entertaining the idea that Ramiel and Zeruel put out more power than a sea of energy?


 Yes. Last Dirac sea we see in the series is a city buster and wiped out the base in America. Zeruel was putting out more than that with his beam attacks. Sahquiel was a certified threat to the country yet 01 was able to stop it's momentum and take the explosion. Unit 01 surviving a dirac sea is in line with the previous showings. 



> Also the subcouncious ATF idea doesn't work because of the power supressing armor.


There was no power being supplied to the armor so Yui could do whatever she wanted whether passively or actively.



> No it isn't. It is described completely seperate from the ATF. It's simply a dimensional gateway that is more that likely opened and closed by the ATF. And again, we don't even know if the plan would have worked.
> 
> 
> Neutralizing the ATF forcefully inverted the dimension and ripped it to shreds. Preventing the door from closing lets it get hit by the full blast in theory.


And we blow full circle to what I said in the beginning shinji could have neutralized the ATF by himself with yui's help if he wasn't in the proper position and had some intel.



> Like she said it was impossible to fight Leliel? Character opinions aren't proof.


Hasty generalization, because she was wrong in one statement doesn't mean we should disregard all other statements she makes. She's the one closest to shinji so her words on his ability or anything related to it should carry more weight than your fan conjectures.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Apr 23, 2009)

Red said:


> Last Dirac sea we see in the series is a city buster and wiped out the base in America.


That was a S2 organ malfunction, not a carefully maintained whatever the hell Leliel wanted to do...



> Zeruel was putting out more than that with his beam attacks.


 You want to claim a Zeruel was a city buster even though he only blasted the chest plate off?



> Sahquiel was a certified threat to the country


If it detonated at full yield which it didn't.



> yet 01 was able to stop it's momentum and take the explosion.


That explosion was no where near a city buster... And Eva-01 was at it's limit when the others got there.



> Unit 01 surviving a dirac sea is in line with the previous showings.


Look, I'm gonna level with you. I am perfectly content to believe neither was in the sea long enough for it to matter. Clearly the Eva was absorbed into that sphere and not sitting in the sea for the full 17 hours which you seem to want. And no it is not.



> There was no power being supplied to the armor so Yui could do whatever she wanted whether passively or actively.


That's not how the armor works and you know it otherwise the Evas would be walking around on their own all the time and it wouldn't be a big deal.



> And we blow full circle to what I said in the beginning shinji could have neutralized the ATF by himself with yui's help if he wasn't in the proper position and had some intel.


You literally have to be inside Leliel to get to it. That is just the first step. Then you have to be able to see. Provided you can you still have to understand what you're seeing and decern directions and all that good stuff. Then you have to be able to move to get to the ATF. Finally you have to defend against anything Leliel throws at you along the way. The Evas armor restricts the pilots abilities in water, what do you think it does here? Only a fully concious member of Leliel's species can do all of the above and guess what Yui just happens to be?



> Hasty generalization, because she was wrong in one statement doesn't mean we should disregard all other statements she makes.


And the fact that she didn't even know what she was talking about when she was complaining about his performance means nothing? I'm going to assume this is the line you are talking about which itself leaves me scratching my head...


> ASUKA:
> That idiot. What's the point of doing well only on practice exams?!


She wouldn't have been any better off. And if this happens to be what you're thinking of I'm really lost...


> ASUKA:
> Good grief!
> Taking matters into his own hands, ignoring the plan.
> Honestly, talk about getting what he deserved.
> ...





> She's the one closest to shinji so her words on his ability or anything related to it should carry more weight than your fan conjectures.


I'm not the one that quoted Wiki as an arguement.


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## Hellspawn28 (Apr 23, 2009)

> And if Shinji DOES put him out for good, he has an auto-self-destruct that wipes out a planet.



Unit 01 is that powerfull, In EoE she is just a country buster. KG in the Showa series destroy all the life in Venus in a ease and destroy stars as well which was mention in Zone Fighter. Since Heisei Godzilla is much stronger then he should able to do the same as well.



> And could Eva unit 01 kill Godzilla if he used the positron rifle backed by all the city's power?



Unit 01 does not have it a positron rifle in this match.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Apr 23, 2009)

By powerscailing end of EoE Yui is a planetary level soulfucker. Only then can Yui actually win this and only by a cheap ass power.


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## The World (Apr 23, 2009)

Hellspawn28 said:


> Unit 01 is that powerfull, In EoE she is just a country buster. KG in the Showa series destroy all the life in Venus in a ease and destroy stars as well which was mention in Zone Fighter. Since Heisei Godzilla is much stronger then he should able to do the same as well.



Unit 01 at the EoE reality warped the whole planet. Godzilla would not survive that, he would get turned into a pool of LCL.





Hellspawn28 said:


> Unit 01 does not have it a positron rifle in this match.



It was a hypothetical question.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Apr 23, 2009)

Roxxas said:


> Unit 01 at the EoE reality warped the whole planet. Godzilla would not survive that, he would get turned into a pool of LCL.



That was Lilith and it was a soulfuck which by powerscaling Yui should be capable of.


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## The World (Apr 23, 2009)

I thought it was the combination of Lilith with 01?


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Apr 23, 2009)

Still Lilith that used the power reguardless of who got absorbed before it went down. Rei was poping up to almost everyone as it happened.


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## Hellspawn28 (Apr 23, 2009)

Godzilla can do the same once he hits after 1200?. In Godzilla vs. Destoroyah it mention that he can be a Planet Buster 



> O'rly?



Without the Power plug then the power of the unit runs low much like the battle with the second angel. Godzilla  Spiral Fire ray should be strong enough to break the AT field since FW Godzilla destroy a large rock that might be destroy the Planet, and 90's Godzilla was stated by Toho it Godzilla second form next to his Buring form. 

I'm not sure if Adam and Lilith should be count as Gods since their not omnipotent, and they where they are Seed of Life created by the First Ancestral Race over billion years ago.



Red said:


> Eva unit 01 was able to rip his way out of an alternate dimension Dirac sea.
> Ripping the heart apart into tinier pieces? Also how fast is the regen. If he Godzilla can't regenerate instantly then it makes it kind of useless in battle.



I don't remember anything about the inside of Leiel beging a another dimension at all. It broke out since it went out of control and Leliel trying to contact Shinji's mind, not the Evangelion. Misato is actually directly asked about the possibility of Leliel trying to contact Shinji's mind in the following episode by Seele, and she says it cannot really be determined what happened.

In Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah, after Godzilla and Mecha-Ghidorah hit the water (which when falling from that height), Godzilla was only knocked out for about a minute and it going to take a bit more then a knife and some machine guns to take him with his great regen since it allows him to heal just about any given damage in a matter of seconds. He also has a Nuclear Pulse that can send a surge of energy out of his body that will cause anything touching him to let go or be severely injured.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Apr 23, 2009)

Hellspawn28 said:


> Godzilla can do the same once he hits after 1200?. In Godzilla vs. Destoroyah it mention that he can be a Planet Buster


That's not quite soulfucking... So which version is it? Cause it makes a big difference in how Shinji gets pwned.



> Without the Power plug then the power of the unit runs low much like the battle with the second angel.


S2 organ means no operational limit. Why are you replying to this now anyways? 



> I'm not sure if Adam and Lilith should be count as Gods since their not omnipotent,


Not all gods are and they are repeatedly called such.


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## Hellspawn28 (Apr 23, 2009)

Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah, after Godzilla and Mecha-Ghidorah hit the water (which when falling from that height), Godzilla was only knocked out for about a minute and it going to take a bit more then a knife and some machine guns to take him with his great regen since it allows him to heal just about any given damage in a matter of seconds. He also has a Nuclear Pulse that can send a surge of energy out of his body that will cause anything touching him to let go or be severely injured.



> That's not quite soulfucking... So which version is it?



That Burning Godzilla which was made from radiation that he asborbs. Since this is 90's Godzilla not Burning one then that does count.


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## Viciousness (Apr 23, 2009)

Yeah it was that a detonation of all his energy..thermal and nuclear would either implode the earth or  explode it, but since he transferred most of his power to Jr and the super x III was spam firing blasts of near absolute 0 at him the effects were neutralized.

Hesei Gojira also survived in a volcano for 5 years (84-90), walked under the surface of the earth swimming through magma and coming out of another valcano after being the actual cause of the massive shift in plates, in his first fight with Battra in 93 (note all hesei films after Gojira Returns/Godzilla 1985 take place the year following their japanese theatrical release), and melted a reflective/ amplifying panel of pure synthetic diamond off the super XII with just a couple shots from his normal weaker (since he didnt grow from Modern Nuclear Weapons in vs Biollante) ray.

He's fought off and destroyed robotic cyborgs with technology taken from almost 500 years in the future[they can time travel and have hundreds of human replica androids who are pretty much imprevious to conventional weapons] (the fight before it went for his 1 weak spot..the spinal brain..he shut down Mechagodzilla trying to electrocute him by sending some crazy surge back..I dont know what the hell power that was). He's been unphased by virtually every convential weapon known to man..save the Oxygen destroyer, and knocks the worlds most powerful psychic unconscious almost instantly (and to direct Jr to battle when shes way past her prime in abilities..Miki was pretty good 6 years prior). 

Unless you want to say the AT field is just absolutely impenetrable without another one..which is kind of retarted since then you can just say Superman can't beat one since he doesnt have an AT field[unless you say everything including him and Godzilla can have one]..then gotta give it to the king of the monsters.

 Even in the showa (by the end) and Millineum series. 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Showa he fought off a planet conquerer/star destroyer (Hellspawn do you have Zone fighter eps subbed? I just have some japanese raws...) And the only ones to make him bleed were infused with far more advanced alien technology (IE Gigan and Mechagodzilla)..and he healed from that pretty quickly...turned himself into a living magnet after taking in some lightning strikes..and a year later was strong enough to handle a stronger version of his mechanical double, and another monster at the same time, without any real aid..except a helicopter distracting Titanosaurus. Hedorah probably did the most damage to Godzilla but he was a planet conquerer as well whose sludge had alien properties as well.

Millenium he pinpoints and blasts a meteor headed for earth, well into space..kills like 10 like sized monsters in a day (all but monster x dying in under 5 seconds)..3 in the same fight when one of them flies mach 5, absorbs the souls of 3 Diety monsters after killing each (and his blasts were creating mushroom clouds and shockwaves even before absorbing them), blasts and comes back from a micro black hole aimed at him, takes out a far more advanced alien civ prepared to conquer earth,  and the clone of him they were building, regenerates instantly from damage and only lost to Mechagodzilla because it basically was his predecessor in there who took over, it was built over his bones and everything...he was dealing with a scar that only existed because he got frozen at absolute zero when it happened, which probably stopped or reset his cells regeneration at that time, and Mechagodzilla exploited that weakness and still needed help from two oversized caterpillars whose mother Goji killed in the same battle, to tie him up so he could drop him in the sea. And in the series its hinted he can regenerate from just the indestructible beating heart that's left after he pretty much self destructs. So yeah Godzilla wins in those too unless its pre 1965


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## Red (Apr 23, 2009)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> That was a S2 organ malfunction, not a carefully maintained whatever the hell Leliel wanted to do...


 This was *stated* to be a dirac sea. Explicit.




> You want to claim a Zeruel was a city buster even though he only blasted the chest plate off?


Yes. He blasted *22 reinforced steel platings in one shot *that rivals level of yield that Seele used to attack the geofront in EoE. So yeah Zeruel is a city buster.



> If it detonated at full yield which it didn't.


Proof this. It completed it's descent and detonation so logically it detonated to it's full yield with the only factor being the three eva's taking the damage as opposed to Nerve HQ.



> That explosion was no where near a city buster...


 Yes it was. It took out an entire mountain and a sizable portion of the city even with all three Eva's taking the brunt of the damage with ATF at maximum.



> And Eva-01 was at it's limit when the others got there.


So? It still took a several hundred ton alien moving at mach 23 with enough explosives to extend the pacific ocean into japan. That's impressive.



> Look, I'm gonna level with you. I am perfectly content to believe neither was in the sea long enough for it to matter. Clearly the Eva was absorbed into that sphere and not sitting in the sea for the full 17 hours which you seem to want. And no it is not.


What?



> That's not how the armor works and you know it otherwise the Evas would be walking around on their own all the time and it wouldn't be a big deal.


What?




> You literally have to be inside Leliel to get to it. That is just the first step. Then you have to be able to see. Provided you can you still have to understand what you're seeing and decern directions and all that good stuff. Then you have to be able to move to get to the ATF.


 It's be like poking in the dark, granted. But it's still possible and the fact that Evas can extend their ATF to a raidius even makes



> Finally you have to defend against anything Leliel throws at you along the way.


 Apart from smothering there's nothing Leliel did.



> The Evas armor restricts the pilots abilities in water, what do you think it does here? Only a fully concious member of Leliel's species can do all of the above and guess what Yui just happens to be?


What?




> And the fact that she didn't even know what she was talking about when she was complaining about his performance means nothing? I'm going to assume this is the line you are talking about which itself leaves me scratching my head...
> 
> She wouldn't have been any better off. And if this happens to be what you're thinking of I'm really lost...


Yes she would have been better off, the only reason Shinji fucked up among other things was he was too gung ho about it. The Nerve HQ was able to discern the nature of the angel with Magi and Ritsuko's knowledge and if shinji wasn't a dumb ass he would have not gotten into the mess and dealt with the Angel like every other angel. Asuka was right, he got praised a little and let it go to his head.



			
				Hellspawn28 said:
			
		

> I don't remember anything about the inside of Leiel beging a another dimension at all.





> "Sea of Dirac." It could be another universe


 And a dirac sea is another universe, one only filled with vacuum energy.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Apr 23, 2009)

Red said:


> This was *stated* to be a dirac sea. Explicit.


And they're all equal right? Not that this even matters...



> Yes. He blasted *22 reinforced steel platings in one shot *that rivals level of yield that Seele used to attack the geofront in EoE. So yeah Zeruel is a city buster.


Let's review, Zeruel fired a narrow penetrating blast that went through most of the armor in a confined area, Seele blew a giant fucking hole in it. Zeruel would not destroy a city by any stretch. And if you really want to argue it was then Eva armor > city buster. Oh shi-.



> Proof this. It completed it's descent and detonation so logically it detonated to it's full yield with the only factor being the three eva's taking the damage as opposed to Nerve HQ.


A good chunck of the energy was lost during the ATF clash so it clearly wasn't full power. Remember, it wasn't just the bomb, it was the bomb + the impact. Slow impact = less power. 



> Yes it was. It took out an entire mountain and a sizable portion of the city even with all three Eva's taking the brunt of the damage with ATF at maximum.


I suppose you have a pic of this? BTW that was the same animation as Israfel blowing up and that crater wasn't very big.



> So? It still took a several hundred ton alien moving at mach 23 with enough explosives to extend the pacific ocean into japan. That's impressive.


It was getting overwhelmed and needed the other 2 Evas to tank it. Eva-01 alone could not.



> What?


I don't think there is the sort of insane durabilty feat you want to see.



> What?


The armor always works. ALWAYS. Otherwise Evas moving on their own wouldn't be a big deal. You never heard them say _oh there was no power in the armor that explains it_ now did you? It's always _oh shit how is this happening_!?




> It's be like poking in the dark, granted. But it's still possible and the fact that Evas can extend their ATF to a raidius even makes


Assuming that the radius of the dirac sea in confined to the radius of the shadow. It could potentually be hundreds of miles for all we know.



> Apart from smothering there's nothing Leliel did.


You don't know that and that's the point. It all happened off screen so you don't know what Yui had to do to pull it off. How many more times do I have to say this before you understand why it can't be used by Shinji?



> What?


Gaghiel, shitty movement under water. Remember? Do you think it will be different here? 




> Yes she would have been better off, the only reason Shinji fucked up among other things was he was too gung ho about it.


He was screwed either way. Only after Leliel attacked Shinji did they realize that the sphere wasn't Leliel. No backup would stop what happened from happening and doesn't in any way prove Shinji could have done squat to stop it. 



> Asuka was right, he got praised a little and let it go to his head.


I'd like to point out that's not what you said she said hence my confusion.


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## Nikushimi (Apr 25, 2009)

TWF said:


> Heisei Godzilla fully charged is above city-busting with his Atomic Spiral Ray.



Wasn't King Ghidorah a star-destroyer? I mean he canonically destroyed Venus in one of his Showa incarnations... Forget his DBZ-ified Heisei incarnation, which Gojira ran absolute train all over.



> His strength is already monsterous, ignorning his physical size, and Godzilla has absorbed the souls of three immortal Daikaijuus, *along with being the walking incarnation of all souls killed by the Japanese in World War 2.*



You're thinking of Millennium series, bro.



I'm going with Gojira on this one. By powerscaling he could easily be a planet-buster (canonically, he is, in Gojira vs. Destoroyah).


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