# General Franky vs Robin and Usopp



## zorokuma (Apr 29, 2013)

location: luffy vs jinbei

distance: 20 feet

bloodlusted

no restrictions.

can franky do it? or is a middle trio member together with a member of the weakling trio too much?


edit: scenario 2: add in nami and chopper


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## Imagine (Apr 29, 2013)

He destroys them. Franky has the upperhand in firepower and durability.


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## zorokuma (Apr 29, 2013)

added a scenario 2


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## Beckman (Apr 29, 2013)

Robin & Usopp doesn't have anything to put GF down. Quite an easy win for the hentai.

Adding Chopper & Nami makes it alot closer. MP chopper should have the physique to tango with GF and Robins abitlity should be enough to prevent Franky from frying his ass with a beam. Namis lighting was quite effective against a Pacifista so it should work here aswell now when she've powered up.

If Chopper, Usopp & Robin worked together to restrain GF then Nami should be able to finish him off.

I'd give it to the team in s2.


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## tupadre97 (Apr 29, 2013)

Franky rapes


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## Pacifista (Apr 29, 2013)

There's no way Franky is that far from Robin. She alone would give him an incredibly hard fight. Come on guys.


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## Sanji (Apr 29, 2013)

Pacifista said:


> There's no way Franky is that far from Robin. She alone would give him an incredibly hard fight. Come on guys.



Ehhhh. I don't know. So far Franky has been shown a little distant from the rest of the crew (besides the M3). 

Do you think Robin could 1v2 Baby 5 and Buffalo?


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## Beckman (Apr 29, 2013)

Pacifista said:


> There's no way Franky is that far from Robin. She alone would give him an incredibly hard fight. Come on guys.



imo you're to bound by the view that the middle trio have to be close to each other. What exactly is Robin supposed to do to General Franky?


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## KST (Apr 29, 2013)

Impact Wolf and General Franky is history


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## ciigan (Apr 29, 2013)

General Franky is overestimated and he is useless against Robin and her abilities. However, she probably can't hurt him but Usopp can, so they will take him down easily.


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## Zorofangirl24 (Apr 29, 2013)

General franky could smash Sanji...


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## ZeroWolf123 (Apr 29, 2013)

Franky wins.


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## Pacifista (Apr 29, 2013)

CaveLemon said:


> Ehhhh. I don't know. So far Franky has been shown a little distant from the rest of the crew (besides the M3).



Not in particularly. He's just been doing more.


> Do you think Robin could 1v2 Baby 5 and Buffalo?


Yeah. Franky wasn't even serious fighting those two. There's no way Robin could lose to characters that Franky was just playing around with. 


Benn Beckman said:


> imo you're to bound by the view that the middle trio have to be close to each other. What exactly is Robin supposed to do to General Franky?



Remember, she has the Hana and can sprout even more arms than before. I certainly don't see why she couldn't lock General Franky down or even be able to pick it up and throw it. And until it's shown that Franky is far away from Robin or Brook then no, I have no reason to assume that he zoomed past them. It's not like he has fought powerful characters so far. He went up against low members of the Donquixote family and Ikarros. If anything, him defeating both of those members and being so impressive just gave more credence to how strong the Middle Trio actually is. 

Just wait a little longer and Nico Robin will pull through once again for those that doubt. But again, even if Franky is stronger than Robin it certainly isn't by a large margin.


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## Imagine (Apr 29, 2013)

ciigan said:


> General Franky is overestimated and he is useless against Robin and her abilities. However, she probably can't hurt him but Usopp can, so they will take him down easily.


So shooting her in the face with general cannon is useless?


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## Beckman (Apr 30, 2013)

Pacifista said:


> Remember, she has the Hana and can sprout even more arms than before. I certainly don't see why she couldn't lock General Franky down or even be able to pick it up and throw it. And until it's shown that Franky is far away from Robin or Brook then no, I have no reason to assume that he zoomed past them. It's not like he has fought powerful characters so far. He went up against low members of the Donquixote family and Ikarros. If anything, him defeating both of those members and being so impressive just gave more credence to how strong the Middle Trio actually is.
> 
> Just wait a little longer and Nico Robin will pull through once again for those that doubt. But again, even if Franky is stronger than Robin it certainly isn't by a large margin.



General is covered in weapons, if she tried to restrain him or pick him up he'd just destroy her arms. Also want to add that this is Franky inside his general, not just Franky himself. Even if Robin is close to Franky that doesn't mean she's close to General Franky.

I personally don't think the middle and weakling trio exists anymore. Franky seems like he's a good deal ahead of the rest and Chopper seems closer to Brook/Robin than Usopp/Nami.

But I guess we'll have to wait and see.


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## Sure (Apr 30, 2013)

Is there prep? Usopp is god-like with it.


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## ciigan (Apr 30, 2013)

Imagine said:


> So shooting her in the face with general cannon is useless?


It is useless, if the cannon won't reach her.


Benn Beckman said:


> . Even if Robin is close to Franky that doesn't mean she's close to General Franky.


You think that GF is stronger than Franky without his "armor"?


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## Yamucha (Apr 30, 2013)

ciigan said:


> General Franky is overestimated and he is useless against Robin and her abilities. However, she probably can't hurt him but Usopp can, so they will take him down easily.


I love how you contradict yourself completely in two sentences. 



I concur that Franky has been far more impressive than Robin so far. I really don't see her abilities working against Franky Shogun. 

Franky should take this in any scenario, with the second one being closer because MC can dish out some potential damage, enough to occupy Franky Shogun.


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## Urouge (Apr 30, 2013)

ciigan said:


> General Franky is overestimated and he is useless against Robin and her abilities. However, she probably can't hurt him but Usopp can, so they will take him down easily.



how is GF useless against robin? it's actually the other way around. she can't do shit to him while he has many ways to kill her.


@pacifista seriously what can she do to him?


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## Urouge (Apr 30, 2013)

if GF uses GC straight away they're fucked


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## Unclear Justice (Apr 30, 2013)

It does count as win, if one team completely constrains the other one, doesn?t it? If this is the case and I remember correctly that GF was never shown to have good mobility or movement speed, then Team 2 could win that way. Otherwise it should be impossible, seeing how they can?t damage him. (Atleast I don?t recall them showing something that we know of that it?s strong enough.)


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## vanhellsing (Apr 30, 2013)

team 2 will eat a radical beam to their faces


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## ciigan (Apr 30, 2013)

Yamucha said:


> I love how you contradict yourself completely in two sentences.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In the first sentence i said that GF can't do anything to her, while in the second i said that Robin can't do much to GF either. Where do i contradict to myself? 
He has been far more impressive only because Robin hasn't done anything yet. However, what she did show (giant hands and clones), can tackle Franky with or without General.


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## Mihawk (Apr 30, 2013)

Team 2 high diff-extreme diff


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## Mihawk (Apr 30, 2013)

Pacifista said:


> Not in particularly. He's just been doing more.
> 
> Yeah. Franky wasn't even serious fighting those two. There's no way Robin could lose to characters that Franky was just playing around with.
> 
> ...



I agree with this.


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## Law (Apr 30, 2013)

Is general Franky made out of that Wapol door that absorbs physical attacks or whatever? If he is, he pretty much wins both scenarios I think. If not, going with Franky 1st SC and probably team two 2nd SC.


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## ciigan (Apr 30, 2013)

Urouge said:


> how is GF useless against robin? it's actually the other way around. she can't do shit to him while he has many ways to kill her.
> 
> 
> @pacifista seriously what can she do to him?


Robin makes a clone on his shoulder and GF won't be able to do anything to her either. 
She makes giant hands to lift him, push him, block his vision, to change direction of his cannon.....etc.
I agree that Franky has a lot of ways to kill her, but she is smart enough to prevent it from happening.  Moreover, she can even damage him with his own weapons.
As for Usopp, he probably has a lot of ways to hurt Franky as well. For example, that wolf of leaves which produces sound, it can hurt Franky inside  the General. Those plans, which he used to lift Zoro into the air also, can deal some damage when Franky will hit the ground......maybe.


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## Urouge (Apr 30, 2013)

you think that he will just stand there while she does all of that? General canon AOE is quite big and it would destroy her if he hit her with it. she hasnt shown the power to push around GF.  she will be too busy trying to dodge GC and radical beam.


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## Imagine (Apr 30, 2013)

ciigan said:


> It is useless, if the cannon won't reach her.


Won't reach her? It traveled several meters with no problem at all.


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## Unclear Justice (Apr 30, 2013)

Urouge said:


> you think that he will just stand there while she does all of that? General canon AOE is quite big and it would destroy her if he hit her with it. *she hasnt shown the power to push around GF.*  she will be too busy trying to dodge GC and radical beam.



She has. 


Remember that one?



She could push away the Sunny, which was heavier than GF, because it was inside of the Sunny, while being affected by seawater.


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## ciigan (Apr 30, 2013)

Urouge said:


> you think that he will just stand there while she does all of that? General canon AOE is quite big and it would destroy her if he hit her with it. she hasnt shown the power to push around GF.  she will be too busy trying to dodge GC and radical beam.


He is not gonna stand there, but GENERAL Franky lack mobility, while Robin can be anywhere.
He can't catch her, she can just disappear from his field of vision. Franky, especially GF, didn't  show any impressive reaction or speed skills, while she did. She can make a clone anywhere, General cannon is useless if it can't hit its target.


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## MrWano (Apr 30, 2013)

Franky takes the win in both scenarios. His destructive power and the fact that the shogun is made out of Wapometal makes it an impossible fight for for example Robin or Chopper.


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## Urouge (Apr 30, 2013)

Unclear Justice said:


> She has.
> 
> 
> Remember that one?
> ...



ah forgot about that feat. she better off not using that though. it's a big target for a radical beam.  we all know that robin feels pain when one of her fake limb gets destroyed. 



ciigan said:


> He is not gonna stand there, but GENERAL Franky lack mobility, while Robin can be anywhere.
> He can't catch her, she can just disappear from his field of vision. Franky, especially GF, didn't  show any impressive reaction or speed skills, while she did. She can make a clone anywhere, General cannon is useless if it can't hit its target.



mobility doesnt matter when you have general canon and a laser beam. 



as you can see that AOE is quite big. she better not use her big limbs.


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## blueframe01 (Apr 30, 2013)

Urouge said:


> you think that he will just stand there while she does all of that? General canon AOE is quite big and it would destroy her if he hit her with it. she hasnt shown the power to push around GF.  she will be too busy trying to dodge GC and radical beam.



her hands are capable of great force, actually. It took a lot of force to stop Sunny from hitting the rocks, and you have to remember it was done underwater. 

 vs

You can see that her hands are as big as MC, which probably mean its even bigger than GF. That said her giant legs should logically be even bigger, and capable of generating higher force than her hands. will it be enough to break his armor? Personally I doubt that, but I don't see why she isn't capable of restricting GF, or even deflecting his attacks by pushing him around. 

For now its pretty difficult to say for sure who wins this matchup as most of them haven't had their time to shine (bar the M3 & Franky) but I'm in agreement with Pacifista that Franky has not outgrown the rest so much that he is capable of fighting Robin & Usopp at the same time.


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## GaaraoftheDesert1 (Apr 30, 2013)

Robin uses kage bunshin and dismantles the transformer with ther gigantic hands...  she doesnt even need Ussop literally....
Misogynist nerds of the OL who have no idea of power levels keep underestimating true Robin's strength...


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## ciigan (Apr 30, 2013)

Urouge said:


> ah forgot about that feat. she better off not using that though. it's a big target for a radical beam.  we all know that robin feels pain when one of her fake limb gets destroyed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't get it. Robin won't use giant limbs around her, she will use them directly on Franky and close to him.
Her giant hands can change direction of his cannon and she can make a duplicate, to move from one place to another and i already mentioned this.


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## MrWano (Apr 30, 2013)

GaaraoftheDesert1 said:


> Robin uses kage bunshin and dismantles the transformer with ther gigantic hands...  she doesnt even need Ussop literally....
> Misogynist *nerds* of the OL who have no idea of power levels keep underestimating true Robin's strength...



Says the guy with 10 k posts... And misogyny has nothing to do with it.

Power levels prove nothing. Especially as flawed as the ones people use on this site.

It comes down to whether Usopp's impact wolf and Nami's lightning can hurt the general. My guess would be no.


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## Pacifista (Apr 30, 2013)

Benn Beckman said:


> General is covered in weapons, if she tried to restrain him or pick him up he'd just destroy her arms.



He's not covered in weapons. His hand gives away to General Left and he can throw a shield. That's it.


> Also want to add that this is Franky inside his general, not just Franky himself. Even if Robin is close to Franky that doesn't mean she's close to General Franky.



Did you forget how Robin's fruit works? She doesn't need to be close to Franky at all. Hana Hana powers. And what's better is that she can use clones now.


> I personally don't think the middle and weakling trio exists anymore. Franky seems like he's a good deal ahead of the rest and Chopper seems closer to Brook/Robin than Usopp/Nami.


Franky has been more dominant but that's not really fair when hardly anyone else gets to do anything. Fishman Island was full of fodder and Robin didn't do a thing on Punk Hazard. Chopper's physical strength is extremely impressive in Monster Point but I mean......we need more than that. And honestly, Chopper in terms of physical strength has always been impressive so I don't see anything different in his portrayal now than in Enies Lobby. Remember, Nami was completely helpless against Kumadori but Chopper could put up a good fight against him and then completely destroyed the CP9 member in Monster Point. Is that so different from how? 


> But I guess we'll have to wait and see.



Yeah. I just don't write people off until there's proof to do so.

Urouge:

she doesn't need to form giant appendages right in front of General Franky. She can just sprout them right on his body to hold him by locking him up and then make another large appendage to throw him. And don't forget about her ability to make clones. Baby 5 and Buffalo were stick in General Franky's arm and he tossed them into the air and used General Cannon. He can't do that with Robin. She can just appear right behind him if she chose and General Cannon would be completely spent, leaving him open. 

My point here is this---Franky isn't beating Robin without a hard fight.


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## SesshomaruX2 (Apr 30, 2013)

Robin does what she did last time to take down Franky and let Mansopp finish the job.


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## Yamucha (Apr 30, 2013)

ciigan said:


> In the first sentence i said that GF can't do anything to her, while in the second i said that Robin can't do much to GF either. Where do i contradict to myself?
> He has been far more impressive only because Robin hasn't done anything yet. However, what she did show (giant hands and clones), can tackle Franky with or without General.


Oh sry I read that wrong. I fail to see how a huge robot with an attack that can level a huge area can't do anything to Robin. You are assuming that Robin's legs can easily tackle something that is made out of metal and weights at the very least hundreds of tons. She could tackle Franky, but Franky Shogun is another matter entirely. Those are still human legs, they do take damage by kicking metal.


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## ciigan (May 1, 2013)

Yamucha said:


> Oh sry I read that wrong. I fail to see how a huge robot with an attack that can level a huge area can't do anything to Robin. You are assuming that Robin's legs can easily tackle something that is made out of metal and weights at the very least hundreds of tons. She could tackle Franky, but Franky Shogun is another matter entirely. Those are still human legs, they do take damage by kicking metal.


GF is not a wall nailed to the ground, by simply pushing him she shouldn't feel any pain. Moreover, it's a giant limbs with the size of a GF or bigger and not one.


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## Yamucha (May 1, 2013)

ciigan said:


> GF is not a wall nailed to the ground, by simply pushing him she shouldn't feel any pain. Moreover, it's a giant limbs with the size of a GF or bigger and not one.


You know that he isn't immobile right? If she doesn't do it fast and with enough force, its likely not gonna work, and he's gonna resist. :/ He didn't fall over from a bloody rocket assault. And they are giant limbs, but its still at the very least hundreds of tons of metal. Likely in the low thousands of tons.

Franky is intelligent, so once he sees this coming those legs are getting obliterated.


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## blueframe01 (May 1, 2013)

Yamucha said:


> Oh sry I read that wrong. I fail to see how a huge robot with an attack that can level a huge area can't do anything to Robin. You are assuming that Robin's legs can easily tackle something that is made out of metal and weights at the very least hundreds of tons. She could tackle Franky, but Franky Shogun is another matter entirely. Those are still human legs, they do take damage by kicking metal.



I hope you realize that when Robin stopped Sunny from crashing to the rocks underwater, she actually stopped all the momentum that included the weight of the ship and EVERYTHING in it (GF was part of the weight) and the sheep speed that the ship was travelling at that time. And she did that while being weaken due to using her abilities underwater. how is she unable to push GF alone when she could do it to sunny that was waay heavier in the first place?


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## Beckman (May 1, 2013)

Pacifista said:


> He's not covered in weapons. His hand gives away to General Left and he can throw a shield. That's it.


He was also using a sword on FI iirc, but his main weapons is the General canon(gaon canon). Then if he's in a pinch he could just open the cockpit and use his own arsenal.



> Did you forget how Robin's fruit works? She doesn't need to be close to Franky at all. Hana Hana powers. And what's better is that she can use clones now.


iirc, she still needs to see the area where she grows her body parts and she won't be able to see the inside of GF so she can't grow any parts inside of him. The clones may force Franky to struggle a bit but she still can't harm him.



> Franky has been more dominant but that's not really fair when hardly anyone else gets to do anything. Fishman Island was full of fodder and Robin didn't do a thing on Punk Hazard. Chopper's physical strength is extremely impressive in Monster Point but I mean......we need more than that. And honestly, Chopper in terms of physical strength has always been impressive so I don't see anything different in his portrayal now than in Enies Lobby. Remember, Nami was completely helpless against Kumadori but Chopper could put up a good fight against him and then completely destroyed the CP9 member in Monster Point. Is that so different from how?
> 
> 
> Yeah. I just don't write people off until there's proof to do so.


That's kinda what I was getting at, they each have different strengths. Nami got great offensive powers, Usopp got great range, Chopper got great physique, Brook got great speed & Robin got great versality, Franky got great defence(and currenly offensive power as well). So depending on the opponent any of them could be "the strongest". But from an general point of view Frankys powers are more useful against the majority of opponents while Usopp and Nami are the least useful so currently I get the feeling Franky > Rob/Bro/Cho > Uso/Nam.
That may or may not change when they show more but until then I'll stick with it.

Fine, tho I prefer the opposite, I don't write people "in" until there's proof to do so.



blueframe01 said:


> I hope you realize that when Robin stopped Sunny from crashing to the rocks underwater, she actually stopped all the momentum that included the weight of the ship and EVERYTHING in it (GF was part of the weight) and the sheep speed that the ship was travelling at that time. And she did that while being weaken due to using her abilities underwater. how is she unable to push GF alone when she could do it to sunny that was waay heavier in the first place?



Because this time GF would be pushing back, which makes it an entirely different story. Anyway I still don't see the point of this as it wouldn't harm Franky at all.


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## ciigan (May 1, 2013)

Benn Beckman said:


> iirc, she still needs to see the area where she grows her body parts and she won't be able to see the inside of GF so she can't grow any parts inside of him. The clones may force Franky to struggle a bit but she still can't harm him.


She needs to know where he is, she doesn't need to see him. 


Benn Beckman said:


> Because this time GF would be pushing back, which makes it an entirely different story. Anyway I still don't see the point of this as it wouldn't harm Franky at all.


Read more carefully, and in case you forgot GF uses cola, he can't move forever or use General cannon constantly. 


blueframe01 said:


> I hope you realize that when *Robin stopped Sunny from crashing to the rocks underwater, she actually stopped all the momentum that included the weight of the ship and EVERYTHING in it (GF was part of the weight) and the sheep speed that the ship was travelling at that time.* And she did that while being weaken due to using her abilities underwater. how is she unable to push GF alone when she could do it to sunny that was waay heavier in the first place?


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## Beckman (May 1, 2013)

ciigan said:


> She needs to know where he is, she doesn't need to see him.


Well yeah she can make it sprout in some random place, but then what? She wouldn't know where it was in relation to Franky and Franky would have dealt with it before any harm could be done, causing Robin huge pain.



> Read more carefully, and in case you forgot GF uses cola, he can't move forever or use General cannon constantly.


Read what more carefully? blueframes quote? Sorry but there's nothing relevant in it. I'm not questioning wheter Robin could lift the weight of GF, that much is obvious. But lifting a weight is by no means the same as lifting a weight which fights back and tries to prevent you from lifting it. And again, even if she lift GF or push him over, then what? a force of that level won't affect his armor.

The cola consumption is an unknown variable at this point, we've no idea how much it drains or how much it got stored up. However it is built based on Vegapunks technology equivalent to that of several hundreds of years into the future, so I think it's safe to say it wont be quite as cola consuming as Franky was pre-skip.


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## ciigan (May 1, 2013)

Benn Beckman said:


> Well yeah she can make it sprout in some random place, but then what? She wouldn't know where it was in relation to Franky and Franky would have dealt with it before any harm could be done, causing Robin huge pain.


I don't really care if she can do something to Franky inside GF but..... she can make an eye there as well. Than, she can distract him.


Benn Beckman said:


> Read what more carefully? blueframes quote? Sorry but there's nothing relevant in it. I'm not questioning wheter Robin could lift the weight of GF, that much is obvious. But lifting a weight is by no means the same as lifting a weight which fights back and tries to prevent you from lifting it. And again, even if she lift GF or push him over, then what? a force of that level won't affect his armor.


What do you mean by fight back? There is not much GF can do if a giant hand push from behind. 


Benn Beckman said:


> The cola consumption is an unknown variable at this point, we've no idea how much it drains or how much it got stored up. However it is built based on Vegapunks technology equivalent to that of several hundreds of years into the future, so I think it's safe to say it wont be quite as cola consuming as Franky was pre-skip.


Still, Franky and all his "toys" run on cola, and the more energy (cannons, lasers....etc) they use the quicker they will run out.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 1, 2013)

Franky wins.


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## Pacifista (May 1, 2013)

Benn Beckman said:


> He was also using a sword on FI iirc, but his main weapons is the General canon(gaon canon). Then if he's in a pinch he could just open the cockpit and use his own arsenal.



Exactly. Robin should have the tools necessary to make General Franky pretty useless if she can lock it up using her powers. 



> iirc, she still needs to see the area where she grows her body parts and she won't be able to see the inside of GF so she can't grow any parts inside of him. The clones may force Franky to struggle a bit but she still can't harm him.


I'm not talking about inside General Franky. I'm just talking about using her strengthened Hana powers to put a lock down on the giant General Franky, prohibiting it from launching effective attacks. You don't need to hurt someone to win a fight. She should be able to immobilize the General and she has created very enormous limbs too. She should be able to also pick it up and throw it quite a far distance.



> That's kinda what I was getting at, they each have different strengths. Nami got great offensive powers, Usopp got great range, Chopper got great physique, Brook got great speed & Robin got great versality, Franky got great defence(and currenly offensive power as well). So depending on the opponent any of them could be "the strongest". But from an general point of view Frankys powers are more useful against the majority of opponents while Usopp and Nami are the least useful so currently I get the feeling Franky > Rob/Bro/Cho > Uso/Nam.
> That may or may not change when they show more but until then I'll stick with it.



You can believe that Franky can beat Robin. That's not a problem. My point here is simply that, contrary to several of the opening posts, he is NOT going to stomp her in any way, fashion, or form. I'd say the same for Brook. 



> Fine, tho I prefer the opposite, I don't write people "in" until there's proof to do so.


But we already have proof corresponding to what has been established in the manga. What I'm saying is that I see no reason to try and re-order the Straw Hat's positions after the two years if we haven't seen any proof to do so.


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## Beckman (May 1, 2013)

Pacifista said:


> Exactly. Robin should have the tools necessary to make General Franky pretty useless if she can lock it up using her powers.


Huh? That's not what I said at all.
Feel's like we're going in circles here. If Robin uses a giant limb, Franky burns it away with General cannon causing Robin extreme pain, If she only uses regular sized limbs then it won't be enough to constrain him.



> I'm not talking about inside General Franky. I'm just talking about using her strengthened Hana powers to put a lock down on the giant General Franky, prohibiting it from launching effective attacks. You don't need to hurt someone to win a fight. She should be able to immobilize the General and she has created very enormous limbs too. She should be able to also pick it up and throw it quite a far distance.


Again, going in circles. Even if she picks him up and throws him away or stomps on him that still wouldn't affect the generals armor. Franky himslef might have gotten some bruises if it wasn't for his body beeing metal as well.
I just can't see how Robin would hurt him.



> You can believe that Franky can beat Robin. That's not a problem. My point here is simply that, contrary to several of the opening posts, he is NOT going to stomp her in any way, fashion, or form. I'd say the same for Brook.


Ok. 



> But we already have proof corresponding to what has been established in the manga. What I'm saying is that I see no reason to try and re-order the Straw Hat's positions after the two years if we haven't seen any proof to do so.


But you said it yourself that Franky have had more showings and therefore looked more impressive.


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## Pacifista (May 1, 2013)

Benn Beckman said:


> Huh? That's not what I said at all.
> Feel's like we're going in circles here. If Robin uses a giant limb, Franky burns it away with General cannon causing Robin extreme pain, If she only uses regular sized limbs then it won't be enough to constrain him.



Again, are you forgetting about Robin's powers? She can sprout limbs *on* her targets and the bigger the target, the more limbs she can grow in tandem and multiply the strength of her limbs which would ultimately mean her hold becomes that much stronger. She should be able to use her powers to lock up General Franky by growing limbs on its body and locking down its legs and arms. Thus, a completely disarmed General.



> Again, going in circles. Even if she picks him up and throws him away or stomps on him that still wouldn't affect the generals armor. Franky himslef might have gotten some bruises if it wasn't for his body beeing metal as well.
> I just can't see how Robin would hurt him.


It's not about hurting him by that point. If she can stop Franky from doing anything or removes him from the area she wins. Luffy has launched people off of islands and Kuma and send people to practically anywhere on the Grand Line. If she can shut down the General's movements then Franky will have no choice but to exit it and face her himself to which it'd still be a hard battle.



> But you said it yourself that Franky have had more showings and therefore looked more impressive.



Yeah, he looks more impressive but that isn't necessarily because he is. We've barely seen anything out of any of the Straw Hats so trying to rework the power structure before we can see them display their abilities properly is premature.


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## Kai (May 1, 2013)

I really fail to see how Franky is that far from Robin, to be honest.

Robin would give Franky a hell of a fight one on one.


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## Yamucha (May 1, 2013)

blueframe01 said:


> I hope you realize that when Robin stopped Sunny from crashing to the rocks underwater, she actually stopped all the momentum that included the weight of the ship and EVERYTHING in it (GF was part of the weight) and the sheep speed that the ship was travelling at that time. And she did that while being weaken due to using her abilities underwater. how is she unable to push GF alone when she could do it to sunny that was waay heavier in the first place?


You've sort of got a point there and its an impressive feat, but the water dynamics are vastly different than atmosphere dynamics.

Lets, for a second, assume that she can indeed push Franky Shogun down to the ground. He is not an immobile target like Sunny is. He will provide resistance (as I said, he took a rocket blast and it nudged him back a bit), and with the amount of crowd control that is at Shogun's and Franky's disposal its unwise to make large targets for them to hit. I still fail to see how could see damage him, even if she pushes him down to the ground. Its like you or me taking a thick steel barrel and trying to beat it into submission with your bare hands.


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## ciigan (May 2, 2013)

Yamucha said:


> Lets, for a second, assume that she can indeed push Franky Shogun down to the ground. He is not an immobile target like Sunny is. He will provide resistance (as I said, he took a rocket blast and it nudged him back a bit)


I don't think GF can provide more resistance than a SHIP, which is going at enormous speed. But than again, even if he can, he will fail to stop a surprise attack from behind.


Yamucha said:


> and with the amount of crowd control that is at Shogun's and Franky's disposal its unwise to make large targets for them to hit


She can make hands to attack GF from different directions and angles. Secondly, Robin can as easily make a giant limbs as to make them disappear. 


Yamucha said:


> I still fail to see how could see damage him, even if she pushes him down to the ground. Its like you or me taking a thick steel barrel and trying to beat it into submission with your bare hands.


As a way to damage GF, Robin can use his own weapons to destroy him..... when GF will attempt to use his laser or General cannon she can direct them to the ground beneath him, even GF will get seriously damaged if he will be near explosion of his own weapons.


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## Yamucha (May 2, 2013)

ciigan said:


> I don't think GF can provide more resistance than a SHIP, which is going at enormous speed. But than again, even if he can, he will fail to stop a surprise attack from behind.
> 
> She can make hands to attack GF from different directions and angles. Secondly, Robin can as easily make a giant limbs as to make them disappear.
> 
> As a way to damage GF, Robin can use his own weapons to destroy him..... when GF will attempt to use his laser or General cannon she can direct them to the ground beneath him, even GF will get seriously damaged if he will be near explosion of his own weapons.


As I said water dynamics are different than air dynamics. The ship couldn't have gone through water at enormous speeds. Franky isn't stupid, nor is FS weak. Those redirection attacks might have worked on an unintelligent Pacifista, but not on Franky (not enough to do serious damage anyway).


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## tanman (May 2, 2013)

I'm of the opinion that Luffy would loose more times than not to the Weakling Trio.
So yeah, Franky goes down. Robin's has always been portrayed as a foil to Franky. Giant appendages would probably cause some damage to General Franky. With Ussop, they have the firepower to really seal the deal.


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## ciigan (May 3, 2013)

Yamucha said:


> As I said water dynamics are different than air dynamics. The ship couldn't have gone through water at enormous speeds. Franky isn't stupid, nor is FS weak. Those redirection attacks might have worked on an unintelligent Pacifista, but not on Franky (not enough to do serious damage anyway).


Arguing about what is more difficult: safe a ship underwater or deal with GF is pointless. The point is Robin showed enough power to handle GF. 
I don't think that "intelligence" will help him stop multiple attacks from different directions (intuition, great reaction, experience and speed would have helped him, if Robin lack any of those aspects), but of-course it's not going to be easy for Robin either. 
I just gave an example how she can hurt him, because you seemed to think that there is no way Robin can seriously damage him.
Moreover, Usopp is also participating in this fight. General Franky will be the one to defend him self, not Robin and Usopp. Different attacks from all directions (Usopp), giant limbs coming from behind and from below to stop his attempt to launch his cannon and ect. (Robin), there is no way GF can beat this combo.


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## Kirin Thunderclap (May 3, 2013)

General Franky is bloodlusted so he's going to go for the big guns almost immediately.  They don't really have attacks that can beat Shogun Franky. Franky wins with mid diff at most. 

Scenario 2 Chopper's MP could probably give them the DC and durability they so desperately need but Shogun still has more DC and more Stamina so I would say Franky with high diff.


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## Yamucha (May 3, 2013)

ciigan said:


> Arguing about what is more difficult: safe a ship underwater or deal with GF is pointless. The point is Robin showed enough power to handle GF.
> I don't think that "intelligence" will help him stop multiple attacks from different directions (intuition, great reaction, experience and speed would have helped him, if Robin lack any of those aspects), but of-course it's not going to be easy for Robin either.
> I just gave an example how she can hurt him, because you seemed to think that there is no way Robin can seriously damage him.
> Moreover, Usopp is also participating in this fight. General Franky will be the one to defend him self, not Robin and Usopp. Different attacks from all directions (Usopp), giant limbs coming from behind and from below to stop his attempt to launch his cannon and ect. (Robin), there is no way GF can beat this combo.


I think you missed my point. I'm saying that a sinking ship is going much, much slower than it would go in aerial free wall. Water resistance is three orders of magnitude stronger than air resistance. 

I still don't think any of them have means of seriously damaging him. As I said, Robin's tricks might work once, but Franky can literally wipe her off the map once he gets a good shot in. Same with Usopp. Franky can spread serious damage over a large area, and given the fact that both Robin and Usopp are regular humans, they wouldn't last long, whereas Franky and FS durability is a vastly superhuman one, especially for the latter. Nothing Usopp has is going to do significant damage to Shogun. Franky doesn't need to react to every attack they throw at him, because he's got very few thing to fear from them. Most of them won't even dent him. They both mostly do BLUNT damage, and he'll bounce right back from that, because he's made of Wapometal. You also seem to think that Robin's hand will be able to restrain Franky Shogun's arms every time. These are robotic hands we are talking about. They are insanely powerful. Franky threw around all those fishmen like they were rag dolls (things 10x stronger than a human). Granted, Robin's arms are gigantic, but the base arms are just simple human arms, and trying to get them close to Shogun in order to restrain him will backfire at some point, because he can annihilate them rather easily. 

As for the teaming up ... Baby 5 and Buffalo didn't last long against the Shogun and they were a well matched organized and experienced team. And they had a piercing weapon, the thing that Wapometal is supposed to be not-so-great against.


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## Smiley OP (May 3, 2013)

But if Robin has a good sight on franky she can beat him in a one hit ko again.
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_YuPYp9Aw4[/YOUTUBE]


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## ciigan (May 4, 2013)

Yamucha said:


> I think you missed my point. I'm saying that a sinking ship is going much, much slower than it would go in aerial free wall. Water resistance is three orders of magnitude stronger than air resistance.
> 
> I still don't think any of them have means of seriously damaging him. As I said, Robin's tricks might work once, but Franky can literally wipe her off the map once he gets a good shot in. Same with Usopp. Franky can spread serious damage over a large area, and given the fact that both Robin and Usopp are regular humans, they wouldn't last long, whereas Franky and FS durability is a vastly superhuman one, especially for the latter. Nothing Usopp has is going to do significant damage to Shogun. Franky doesn't need to react to every attack they throw at him, because he's got very few thing to fear from them. Most of them won't even dent him. They both mostly do BLUNT damage, and he'll bounce right back from that, because he's made of Wapometal. You also seem to think that Robin's hand will be able to restrain Franky Shogun's arms every time. These are robotic hands we are talking about. They are insanely powerful. Franky threw around all those fishmen like they were rag dolls (things 10x stronger than a human). Granted, Robin's arms are gigantic, but the base arms are just simple human arms, and trying to get them close to Shogun in order to restrain him will backfire at some point, because he can annihilate them rather easily.
> 
> As for the teaming up ... Baby 5 and Buffalo didn't last long against the Shogun and they were a well matched organized and experienced team. And they had a piercing weapon, the thing that Wapometal is supposed to be not-so-great against.


No, i get what you were trying to say and it's true. Ship was lighter underwater and bal bla bla but Robin was also several times weakened.

Robin won't let it happen, her abilities, especially clones, can literally nullify every effort GFranky makes to hurt her as well as help Usopp from getting hit. Secondly, we don't really know what Usopp can or can't do (in case of Franky and Robin we know how they fight and what they use, but Usopp right now is completely different from pre-time skip) . Also, i don't think Robin can restrain GF arms every time, that's unnecessary, simply change direction of his hands (cannons) is enough and it doesn't require to much effort. 
GF has two targets, while they have one. GFranky is smart, but Robin and Usopp are not idiots either. He has more destructive powers, whereas Robin and Usopp have diversity and flexibility. He has limits (cola), Robin on the other hand can do her tricks as much as she wants and in case of Usopp .,........... i don't know.  

Well matched, organized and experienced team of Baby 5 and Buffalo - well done in making effort to hype them in order to make GF look more impressive, when they are nowhere near his or Robin's strength and that applies to Usopp too. I'm not saying it's not true, they are experienced and bla bla bla, but they were weak, and if they would have met Robin they would be at the bottom of the see right now (helicopter guy + twist/restrain/slam,/clutch etc. = bottom of the sea). Franky showed he can handle two fighters at the same time, good, but right now it's different. He is facing Robin (who is on his level) which makes it really hard to win + Usopp, he is also not bad , well stronger than Befallo and Baby 5 individually


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## Yamucha (May 4, 2013)

ciigan said:


> No, i get what you were trying to say and it's true. Ship was lighter underwater and bal bla bla but Robin was also several times weakened.
> 
> Robin won't let it happen, her abilities, especially clones, can literally nullify every effort GFranky makes to hurt her as well as help Usopp from getting hit. Secondly, we don't really know what Usopp can or can't do (in case of Franky and Robin we know how they fight and what they use, but Usopp right now is completely different from pre-time skip) . Also, i don't think Robin can restrain GF arms every time, that's unnecessary, simply change direction of his hands (cannons) is enough and it doesn't require to much effort.
> GF has two targets, while they have one. GFranky is smart, but Robin and Usopp are not idiots either. He has more destructive powers, whereas Robin and Usopp have diversity and flexibility. He has limits (cola), Robin on the other hand can do her tricks as much as she wants and in case of Usopp .,........... i don't know.
> ...


Franky doesn't have Pacifista level intelligence. He is a genius, and I doubt he would consistently fall for such trickery, especially because they are in character. To relate, Robin's tricks worked on a Paficista because it is stupid, and they are mainly an element of surprise. There's a limit to how many times Robin's tricks can work before Franky annihilates them and thus does serious damage to Robin. She can't abuse her powers because they are a danger to her as well, especially against such a powerful target. He's also bloodlusted so, he's immediately going in for the kill.

Nothing that Usopp has shown so far can damage Franky Shogun. Or are we going into the hypotheticals now? He might have this or that, but until we see that he has something that can hurt Shogun, we can't use it as feats. 

Are Baby 5 and Buffalo not well matched, organized and experienced?  Also, these are guys Dofla sent to extract an insanely important things from PH. What did I say that was not true?


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## ciigan (May 4, 2013)

Yamucha said:


> Franky doesn't have Pacifista level intelligence. He is a genius, and I doubt he would consistently fall for such trickery, especially because they are in character. To relate, Robin's tricks worked on a Paficista because it is stupid, and they are mainly an element of surprise. There's a limit to how many times Robin's tricks can work before Franky annihilates them and thus does serious damage to Robin. She can't abuse her powers because they are a danger to her as well, especially against such a powerful target. He's also bloodlusted so, he's immediately going in for the kill.


Genius? i admit he is smart, but genius?  i don't think so... genius shipwright, yes. In every other aspect, he is just smart.
It worked on Pacifista, not because it's stupid but because (first of all it's a robot, it doesn't have instincts or intuition ) there is no way to tell where hands will appear, in other words it's almost always a surprise attack. If Franky can predict future-meaning has observational haki, he won't fall for her "trickery" abilities. However, he doesn't, for him it will always be a surprise attack and there is nothing he can do about it. His only chance is to try and hurt limbs, but she can cancel them if it's too dangerous, while making others. 
If Franky attempts to kill her, than Robin won't be concerned about using her powers, because if she loses she dies. She will be more aggressive and bold.  


Yamucha said:


> Nothing that Usopp has shown so far can damage Franky Shogun. Or are we going into the hypotheticals now? He might have this or that, but until we see that he has something that can hurt Shogun, we can't use it as feats.


The wall of plants, that he used to stop landslide underwater was impressive. But true, right now he is more of a nuisance to Franky than a treat. 


Yamucha said:


> Are Baby 5 and Buffalo not well matched, organized and experienced?  Also, these are guys Dofla sent to extract an insanely important things from PH. What did I say that was not true?


No, i agreed that they are well matched and organised. My argument was that they are weak, in comparison to Strawhats. I don't know why Dofla send them, maybe he is an idiot


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## STARSTRIKE (May 4, 2013)

GF wins vs Robin + Usopp easy

all they can do is maybe pin him down with Robin's "Mil Fleur: Gigantesco Mano" but they can't do any damage to him because none of them have enough fire power to pierce GF's defenses.

GF may lose vs Robin + Usopp + Nami + Chopper

I could even say that Nami and Chopper solo him because they got 2 key factors on their side: Electricity and Brute strength.

Chopper uses Monster point, Nami hides him with Mirage Tempo, Chopper gets close and could maybe rip GF's robotic arms off.

another situation:

Nami could solo GF with Mirage + rain + lightning, unless GF is water proof, has infra red vision/radar/etc and has a grounding system, the water and lightning should do serious damage to him and he can't hit Nami.


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## Yamucha (May 4, 2013)

ciigan said:


> Genius? i admit he is smart, but genius?  i don't think so... genius shipwright, yes. In every other aspect, he is just smart.
> It worked on Pacifista, not because it's stupid but because (first of all it's a robot, it doesn't have instincts or intuition ) there is no way to tell where hands will appear, in other words it's almost always a surprise attack. If Franky can predict future-meaning has observational haki, he won't fall for her "trickery" abilities. However, he doesn't, for him it will always be a surprise attack and there is nothing he can do about it. His only chance is to try and hurt limbs, but she can cancel them if it's too dangerous, while making others.
> If Franky attempts to kill her, than Robin won't be concerned about using her powers, because if she loses she dies. She will be more aggressive and bold.
> 
> ...


Franky understood (read applied successfully what young Vegapunk could not finish) Vegapunk's tech and blueprints which are 300 years ahead of current tech and understanding. That required implementing more than one field of science. I'd say he's pretty much a genius. 

Lets just agree to disagree. I can see that we aren't going to persuade each other. Good debate thought


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## Navy Scribe (May 4, 2013)

The only way I can see the others winning is by Robin,and she has to see what she can put her limbs on,and the the GF Cockpit is concealed so good luck there.Also not quite sure about her knowledge on the Robot,or if it could even be dismantled conventionally when it tanked the onslaught of Baby-5's attacks.

GC from the get go=GG


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## Guybot2 (May 5, 2013)

Navy Scribe said:


> The only way I can see the others winning is by Robin,and she has to see what she can put her limbs on,and the the GF Cockpit is concealed so good luck there.Also not quite sure about her knowledge on the Robot,or if it could even be dismantled conventionally when it tanked the onslaught of Baby-5's attacks.
> 
> GC from the get go=GG



well your wrong about that... Robin stated it herself she just have to know where anyone is.... as long as she know that franky is inside the Robot.. All she have to do is grow it inside the robot like she did to Moria in Oar...  

By time Franky saw the body parts grow inside the cockpit... he will have to get out Fast or  Being Clutched..

then battle will be Insanely hard for Franky because Robin's speed isnt that slow... it will be robin vs yama 2.0.

her Df powers + intelligence + Assassin skills + agility + durability  take this...


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## ciigan (May 5, 2013)

Yamucha said:


> Franky understood (read applied successfully what young Vegapunk could not finish) Vegapunk's tech and blueprints which are 300 years ahead of current tech and understanding. That required implementing more than one field of science. I'd say he's pretty much a genius.
> 
> Lets just agree to disagree. I can see that we aren't going to persuade each other. Good debate thought


Oh, i forgot about his "relationship" with Vegapunk.
Yes, we will start going in circles, and that's boring.


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## Navy Scribe (May 5, 2013)

Guybot2 said:


> well your wrong about that... Robin stated it herself she just have to know where anyone is.... as long as she know that franky is inside the Robot.. All she have to do is grow it inside the robot like she did to Moria in Oar...
> 
> By time Franky saw the body parts grow inside the cockpit... he will have to get out Fast or  Being Clutched..
> 
> ...


The Oars cockpit was open,so she could see Moriah,but if what you said is true then can you post the scan ?


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## Virus (May 5, 2013)

Franky loses. A combo attack from Robin and usopp can be fatal. Plus Usopps new Kabuto can "eat" the missiles Franky throws at them. So Usopp can literally throw Frankys attacks back. If Usopp has Impact Dials he can use it against the coup de vent attack. 

Nico Robin can hold frankys legs and arms Usopp can impact him on the face. 
shit the underestimation here is to great


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## Lycka (May 5, 2013)

Haruhifan6969 said:


> General franky could smash Sanji...



ck ck ckck


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## Yamucha (May 5, 2013)

Cannibal Bartolomeo said:


> Franky loses. A combo attack from Robin and usopp can be fatal. Plus Usopps new Kabuto can "eat" the missiles Franky throws at them. So Usopp can literally throw Frankys attacks back. If Usopp has Impact Dials he can use it against the coup de vent attack.
> 
> Nico Robin can hold frankys legs and arms Usopp can impact him on the face.
> shit the underestimation here is to great


Franky mainly doesn't throw missiles, though. He throws lasers and compressed air.


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## Virus (May 5, 2013)

Yamucha said:


> Franky mainly doesn't throw missiles, though. He throws lasers and compressed air.



Usopp can absorb the compressed air with his impact dial.


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## Yamucha (May 5, 2013)

Cannibal Bartolomeo said:


> Usopp can absorb the compressed air with his impact dial.


Theoretically Impact Dial can absorb any kind of energy. But it has its limitations.


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## Virus (May 7, 2013)

Yamucha said:


> Theoretically Impact Dial can absorb any kind of energy. But it has its limitations.



And what are the limitations?
Point of impact=absorbation


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## STARSTRIKE (May 16, 2013)

Guybot2 said:


> her Df powers + intelligence + Assassin skills + agility + durability  take this...



So you say Robin is durable enough to withstand a pinky finger flick from Franky? seriously now, since when is Robin known for her "durability"  in combat, she's a range fighter and she's very fragile in close quarters combat, Franky is the definition of durable in fact i doubt any of her clutch techniques would work on him since he's made of steel and even has sea stone technology incorporated from Vegapunk's laboratory. 

Like i said before, Franky even without the robot could take them, he's like a Pacifista on steroids. Has all pacifista technology + his old tricks + an even harder to crack armor. 

As for my Nami lightning + rain technique, i kind of take it back: i've never seen Franky to be vulnerable to electricity so we can presume he has a grounding system.


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## Zorofangirl24 (May 16, 2013)

General Franky fodderizes Robin and Usopp


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