# Adult Sasuke vs Toneri



## tkpirate (Oct 11, 2015)

Location:Lava dimension

Distance:100m

Mindset:IC

Restrictions:genjutsu

if Toneri loses he gets to fuse with all the byakugan eyes as he did in the movie.

who wins?


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## Shinobi no Kami (Oct 11, 2015)

the power of toneris sword isnt even concentrated enough to harm naruto whom gets pierced by a katana. toneri cant scratch susano. 
the rock golem would be slashed into pieces by PS then vaporized by PS chidori, since it couldnt even withstand the traveling force of a bijudama.
toneri is wiped from existence by PS.


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## Rai (Oct 11, 2015)

If Adult Sasuke doesn't have Senjutsu he can't destroy Gudōdama or hurt Toneri in Tenseigan Mode.


Same situation with Madara and Juubito - He needed Hashirama's sage powers.

Sasuke can probably hurt Toneri with his Katana since it was able to pierce Madara in Six Paths Sage Mode.

If Adult Sasuke still have Juubi Susano'o he stomps.


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## KeyofMiracles (Oct 11, 2015)

Sasuke obviously shit stomps him if Naruto without his full power in a younger form can beat him. Then there's the fact that he'd either evade/tank all his moves and one shot with PS.


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## tkpirate (Oct 11, 2015)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> the power of toneris sword isnt even concentrated enough to harm naruto whom gets pierced by a katana.



This is just wrong.if it wasn't concentrated it wouldn't be able to cut the moon in half,and send the two halves away from each other,which means it matched good amount of moon's GBE.even if you increase the size of Sasuke's Katana it wouldn't be able to cut the moon in half.the Katana would just break.


on topic,as Rai said how would Sasuke take care of Toneri's balls


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## Shinobi no Kami (Oct 11, 2015)

tkpirate said:


> This is just wrong.if it wasn't concentrated it wouldn't be able to cut the moon in half,and send the two halves away from each other,which means it matched good amount of moon's GBE.even if you increase the size of Sasuke's Katana it wouldn't be able to cut the moon in half.the Katana would just break.
> 
> 
> on topic,as Rai said how would Sasuke take care of Toneri's balls



the energy throughout the blade is only concentrated enough to cut through something pound for pound as durable as the moons rock, hence it didnt hurt naruto.

the sword cut through the moon purely because of AOE, coupled with the jinton effect of truthseekers.


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## tkpirate (Oct 12, 2015)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> the energy throughout the blade is only concentrated enough to cut through something pound for pound as durable as the moons rock, hence it didnt hurt naruto.
> 
> the sword cut through the moon purely because of AOE, coupled with the jinton effect of truthseekers.



It not only cut through moon's rock,it matched good amount of Moon's GBE.do you even know how much energy is needed for that?
AOE doesn't mean jack shit if it dosen't have energy.as I said even if you increase the size of Sasuke katana it wouldn't be able to cut the moon in half and send two halves away from each other.


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## Zef (Oct 12, 2015)

^
^
^
What do you meant "how"? 

We're still at the point where people believe Sasuke doesn't have Senjutsu / NE? 


Sasuke stood on a Goudama through the majority of the Kaguya battle for Christ's sake.


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## tkpirate (Oct 12, 2015)

Zef said:


> ^
> ^
> ^
> What do you meant "how"?
> ...



Someone said that in Boruto movie it said Sasuke could sense energy with his Rinnegan or something
He was able to stand on Goudama because he has Hago's blessings not because of he has Senjutsu.SasukeSasuke has Hago's chakra he doesn't have Senjutsu Zef.


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## ARGUS (Oct 12, 2015)

Sasuke beats him mid diff 
Ameno evades golden wheel as sasuke teleports behind Toneri and then dices him with PS


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## Kai (Oct 12, 2015)

tkpirate said:


> Someone said that in Boruto movie it said Sasuke could sense energy with his Rinnegan or something
> He was able to stand on Goudama because he has Hago's blessings not because of he has Senjutsu.SasukeSasuke has Hago's chakra he doesn't have Senjutsu Zef.


DB states in order to perform Six Paths Chibaku Tensei, two users with Six Paths senjutsu are required.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 12, 2015)

Shinobi no Kami is bashing Naruto again? Fucking seriously?


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## tkpirate (Oct 12, 2015)

Kai said:


> DB states in order to perform Six Paths Chibaku Tensei, two users with Six Paths senjutsu are required.



It doesn't say that both user need to have Senjutsu.also that Six paths chibaku Tensei was used by Hago.naruto and Sasuke were just proxy.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 12, 2015)

And a kunai can kill Hashirama, Shinobi no Kami. Low End Feats are what you want, so lets bring up the one which you hate: Hashirama was gonna kill himself with a fucking KUNAI.


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## Ersa (Oct 12, 2015)

Sasuke still has Kuroi Chidori in Boruto so he has senjutsu.


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## tkpirate (Oct 12, 2015)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And a kunai can kill Hashirama, Shinobi no Kami. Low End Feats are what you want, so lets bring up the one which you hate: Hashirama was gonna kill himself with a fucking KUNAI.



manga fact.


on topic,can Sasuke deal with Toneri after he absorbed all those byakugans.here is what takl said about it.


> wasn't clearly explained in the film but as the 'Tensei-gan' is already wrecked then and yet Toneri says 'hamuras power' and 'I'll destroy the world of Rikudoh sage with the light (/beam) of justice' i think he is trying to erase the earth using his own body with the thousands of O'tsutsuki eyes that came out of the tenseigan as a substitute for the 'Tensei-gan'.


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## tkpirate (Oct 12, 2015)

Ersatz said:


> Sasuke still has Kuroi Chidori in Boruto so he has senjutsu.


It had nothing to do with Senjutsu it was powered by Hago's chakra or six paths power.


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## Kai (Oct 12, 2015)

tkpirate said:


> It doesn't say that both user need to have Senjutsu.also that Six paths chibaku Tensei was used by Hago.naruto and Sasuke were just proxy.







			
				FF-Suzaku said:
			
		

> Six Paths Chibaku Tensei is invoked when two users simultaneously touch their target with the "Yin" and "Yang" seals. It rips a giant chunk of earth up and turns it into a heavenly body, becoming the Prison of Six Paths (六道の獄 Rokudō no Goku) that can capture all things (万物捕, "banbutsuto"). *It's a sealing jutsu that can be used by individuals who awaken Six Paths Senjutsu*. "Chibaku Tensei" is the version that can be used by a single individual, while *"Six Paths Chibaku Tensei" is a more powerful version that requires two individuals simultaneously combining the power of Yin and Yang*. It turns the sealing target into a gravity core in the sky, which attracts chunks of earth that bury them alive. This forms a heavenly body in the sky that can act as a prison for even a tailed beast. The section in the bottom left describes how the moon was the result of Six Paths Chibaku Tensei, and that so much chakra was contained within that it turned into a gigantic sattelite. It also describes it as a giant sealing stone (封印石 "Fuinseki"), which implies that Kishimoto took some inspiration from those giant "sealing stones" you sometimes see -- the big boulders with the kanji inscribed on them, usually with the ceremonial ropes adoring them.


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## Trojan (Oct 12, 2015)

Zef said:


> ^
> ^
> ^
> What do you meant "how"?
> ...



Sasuke obviously does not have Senjutsu. He got the eyes, Naruto got the Senjutsu. 



> Sasuke stood on a Goudama through the majority of the Kaguya battle for Christ's sake



mmm, how is that relevant? 



Kai said:


> -



Sasuke did not awaken the Senjutsu. Read the manga, Kai. 

here, let me help you
Futons

"ONE has the senjutsu of the six paths...etc"

not
"The two of them have the Senjutsu of the six paths" 

Sasuke can see them, NOT see them AND sense them
Futons


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Oct 12, 2015)

Toneri goes to attack sasuke and gets amenotejikara feinted accompanied with a one shot PS slash.


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## Trojan (Oct 12, 2015)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> Toneri goes to attack sasuke and* gets amenotejikara* feinted accompanied with a one shot PS slash.



Even Shin dealt with that.


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## tkpirate (Oct 12, 2015)

it dosen't counter my post though.
if he had any type of Senjutsu it would stated in his DB profile like it's stated for Naruto.


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## Kai (Oct 12, 2015)

tkpirate said:


> it dosen't counter my post though.
> if he had any type of Senjutsu it would stated in his DB profile like it's stated for Naruto.





			
				FF-Suzaku said:
			
		

> "Chibaku Tensei / Six Paths Chibaku Tensei" has a single entry, and lists "Nagato / *Naruto and Sasuke,* Hagoromo and Hamura" as its users. It's a kekkei genkai sealing jutsu.


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## Trojan (Oct 12, 2015)

tkpirate said:


> it dosen't counter my post though.
> if he had any type of Senjutsu it would stated in his DB profile like it's stated for Naruto.



It does not even say "Sasuke" it only says it can be used for* those who awakened it.* Which
Sasuke is not one of them. 



> "Chibaku Tensei / Six Paths Chibaku Tensei" has a single entry, and lists "Nagato / Naruto and Sasuke, Hagoromo and Hamura" as its users. It's a kekkei genkai sealing jutsu.



Naruto is the source of Senjutsu there. 
Sasuke can't use it by himself, otherwise he wouldn't have needed Naruto to do it if he already has both of the requirement 

Sasuke



> Village: Unaffiliated
> Rank: Unranked
> 
> ID # 012606
> ...



No Sage Mode. Get over it people, he does not have it.


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## Kai (Oct 12, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Naruto is the source of Senjutsu there.
> Sasuke can't use it by himself, otherwise he wouldn't have needed Naruto to do it if he already has both of the requirement


Hussain, Six Paths Chibaku Tensei is outright stated to require *two* users of Six Paths senjutsu.


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## Trojan (Oct 12, 2015)

Kai said:


> Hussain, Six Paths Chibaku Tensei is outright stated to require *two* users of Six Paths senjutsu.



The manga disagree. Madara disagree, and the Databook disagree. 



> Village: Unaffiliated
> Rank: Unranked
> 
> ID # 012606
> ...




You perhaps can enlighten us with Sasuke's Gedu-Dama since he has the Six paths Sage mode
because I am sure I haven't seen any. 

If Sasuke has SM that would mean he got Hago's FULL power. 

Madara wouldn't have said I have both of those in 1 body, if Sasuke has them in 1 body as well. 

try to apply common sense a little. Eyes for the uchiha, SM for the other part.


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## Kai (Oct 12, 2015)

Hussain said:


> The manga disagree. Madara disagree, and the Databook disagree.


Again, Hussain.



			
				FF-Suzaku said:
			
		

> Six Paths Chibaku Tensei is invoked when two users simultaneously touch their target with the "Yin" and "Yang" seals. It rips a giant chunk of earth up and turns it into a heavenly body, becoming the Prison of Six Paths (六道の獄 Rokudō no Goku) that can capture all things (万物捕, "banbutsuto"). *It's a sealing jutsu that can be used by individuals who awaken Six Paths Senjutsu*. "Chibaku Tensei" is the version that can be used by a single individual, while *"Six Paths Chibaku Tensei" is a more powerful version that requires two individuals simultaneously combining the power of Yin and Yang*. It turns the sealing target into a gravity core in the sky, which attracts chunks of earth that bury them alive. This forms a heavenly body in the sky that can act as a prison for even a tailed beast. The section in the bottom left describes how the moon was the result of Six Paths Chibaku Tensei, and that so much chakra was contained within that it turned into a gigantic sattelite. It also describes it as a giant sealing stone (封印石 "Fuinseki"), which implies that Kishimoto took some inspiration from those giant "sealing stones" you sometimes see -- the big boulders with the kanji inscribed on them, usually with the ceremonial ropes adoring them.








			
				Hussain said:
			
		

> You perhaps can enlighten us with Sasuke's Gedu-Dama since he has the Six paths Sage mode
> because I am sure I haven't seen any.


Six Paths Sage Mode is only one of several variations of Six Paths senjutsu


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## Kai (Oct 12, 2015)

Hussain said:
			
		

> .
> 
> If Sasuke has Sage Mode he would have been listed as a user.


No, Hussain. Six Paths senjutsu are Six Paths techniques  

Sage Mode is one variation of Six Paths senjutsu.

The Six Paths Ten-Tail Coffin seal Obito and Madara used to become jinchuurikis, is another form of Six Paths senjutsu.

Sasuke possesses senjutsu as blatantly shown by the fact he is one of two users of Six Paths Chibaku Tensei.


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## tkpirate (Oct 12, 2015)

> Originally Posted by takL  View Post
> kish is so honest and says this book was written by all of the staff.



again there is nothing about senjutsu in Sasuke's profile like it's in Naruto's.Madara clearly stated Naruto and Sasuke got two different things in the manga.as Hossain stated Sasuke can see the Limbo not sense it.

Still people don't understand the difference between six paths power and six paths Senjutsu.


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## Zensuki (Oct 12, 2015)

BPS that shit. Its over.


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## Trojan (Oct 12, 2015)

I am honestly confused with your definition of "six path senjutsu". Senjutsu to me
is Sage Mode. In my opinion, your Inference is rather weak because you're talking about a cooperation jutsu
as if it's a jutsu that can be used by a single person (out of them). 

Applying your logic
Naruto Fan-Book


> The Rinnegan techniques are all Doujutsu-based abilities.



CT is Doujutsu. Naruto is listed as a user. Therefore he has the Rinnegan. 

Naruto & Yamato jutsu that they used against Kakuzu. They are both users
Therefore, Naruto has the Water Style, and Yamato has the Wins Style

Or Naruto's combo with Sasuke where Naruto uses FRS and Sasuke the Enton...

same shit here. Each of them apply their part, and that's why they are both needed.

Or at least that's how I see it. 



tkpirate said:


> Still people don't understand the difference between six paths power and six paths Senjutsu.



Agreed.


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## tkpirate (Oct 12, 2015)

Kai said:


> No, Hussain. Six Paths senjutsu are Six Paths techniques
> 
> Sage Mode is one variation of Six Paths senjutsu.
> 
> ...



Sasuke doesn'tdoesn't have anything in common with juubi jin or Naruto.has no sign of and Senjutsu users have.
saying stuff based on a entry written on a poorly written(not even by kishi)data book is not a smart thing when same data book didn't list Senjusu as an ability in Sasuke's profile when all other senjutsu user has it.


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## Trojan (Oct 12, 2015)

tkpirate said:


> Sasuke doesn'tdoesn't have anything in common with juubi jin or Naruto.has no sign of and Senjutsu users have.
> saying stuff based on a entry written on a poorly written(not even by kishi)data book is not a smart thing when same data book didn't list Senjusu as an ability in Sasuke's profile when all other senjutsu user has it.



Agreed again. 
The 4th Databook is poor for the most part, and in contradict itself in some area. Foe example
1- Sasuke being the one who awaken the Rinnegan, another time it's a gift from Hago.
2- Naruto has the Yin/Yang when they explained the Gedu-Dama, but the Yin is not listed in his profile

and many other examples. When those contradictions happen, you shouldn't take 1 over the other "just because" let alone if it contradicts the manga directly! 

We are suppose to leave Madara's statements out, and ignore that Sasuke showed no similarities with any of the users, and that Hago gave each of them
half, different, type of power, and even Sasuke's page that does not list him as a user against 1 entry for a cooperation jutsu?


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## Blu-ray (Oct 12, 2015)

Naruto had Kurama fuck of elsewhere and still bested Toneri, so I doubt Sasuke coming for him with PS is anything less than a secured victory in Sauce's favor.

He could also screw going power for power like a brainless monkey and just genjutsu that dude into being his bitch. 


tkpirate said:


> Someone said that in Boruto movie it said Sasuke could sense energy with his Rinnegan or something


He sensed Naruto's chakra with his Rinnegan. Not sure about any of instance of sensing.


Hussain said:


> Again
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not that I'm debating for Sasuke having SM or senjutsu or whatever(he doesn't even need it here anyway) this isn't true either. Senjutsu doesn't necessarily mean Sage Mode, since Juugo and CS users all have senjutsu, yet do not possess Sage Mode.

Also according to this book Sasuke doesn't even have PS, so yeah.


> and Sasuke hasn't shown any ability that they have (Gedu-dama, flying, sensing, and other shit)
> 
> Otherwise, tell us what you mean by "Senjutsu" then if it's not SM.


He did sense Naruto's NE, which only Sages should be able to sense, and damage Juubi Jins which only Sages should be capable of doing. Just saying.


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## Kai (Oct 12, 2015)

Hussain said:


> I am honestly confused with your definition of "six path senjutsu". Senjutsu to me
> is Sage Mode. In my opinion, your Inference is rather weak because you're talking about a cooperation jutsu
> as if it's a jutsu that can be used by a single person (out of them).
> 
> ...


It's not hard to understand at all Hussain.

Six Paths Sage Mode *is one out of* several Six Paths Senjutsu. It isn't the one and only senjutsu.

Six Paths Chibaku Tensei is a Six Paths senjutsu. The Ten-Tails Coffin Seal used by Obito and Madara is a Six Paths senjutsu.





tkpirate said:


> Sasuke doesn'tdoesn't have anything in common with juubi jin or Naruto.has no sign of and Senjutsu users have.
> saying stuff based on a entry written on a poorly written(not even by kishi)data book is not a smart thing when same data book didn't list Senjusu as an ability in Sasuke's profile when all other senjutsu user has it.


First of all, there's no databook entry for Six Paths senjutsu directly that I'm aware of.
Secondly, Six Paths Chibaku Tensei is performed by individuals who have awakened Six Paths senjutsu. And it requires *two* users.

It doesn't get simpler than that. Citing "listed users" of the databook is the inconsistency. We're talking about a technique which *requires two* individuals who awaken Six Paths senjutsu.


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## Mercurial (Oct 12, 2015)

Sasuke stomps.


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## Zef (Oct 12, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Sasuke obviously does not have Senjutsu. He got the eyes, Naruto got the Senjutsu.


Naruto got Six Paths Sage Mode. 

A clear distinction was made in the Databook about it. You can read it here:



Sasuke did not receive Six Paths Sage Mode like Naruto, but he was given Hagaromo's chakra which has Senjutsu in it, hence why he was able to use Chidori to harm JJ Madara. Just like Kakashi was capable of harming Kaguya because Obito's chakra possessed Senjutsu from when he was a Juubi Jinchuriki. 
It's not that complicated, Hagaromo's chakra in general has it.



> mmm, how is that relevant?



How is it not? 



> Sasuke did not awaken the Senjutsu. Read the manga, Kai.



Kai never said he awoke Senjutsu, at least not what you think of Senjutsu as.
You're thinking Senjutsu = Sage Mode. 
Senjutsu literally just means "Sage Technique". 
You can possess Senjutsu without having Sage Mode

As evidence of "Senjutsu Susano'o, and this Chidori here


tl; dr
Senjutsu=/=Sage Mode
The distinction was made long ago. Naruto fans need to catch up.


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## tkpirate (Oct 12, 2015)

VolatileSoul said:


> He sensed Naruto's chakra with his Rinnegan. Not sure about any of instance of sensing.


that's what I was talking about.




> Also according to this book Sasuke doesn't even have PS, so yeah.


that's why it shouldn't be used for anything



> He did sense Naruto's NE, which only Sages should be able to sense, and damage Juubi Jins which only Sages should be capable of doing. Just saying.


could be uber Rinnegan Sensing.Six paths power or attacks with Hago's chakra can also damage them.


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## tkpirate (Oct 12, 2015)

Kai said:


> First of all, there's no databook entry for Six Paths senjutsu directly that I'm aware of.
> Secondly, Six Paths Chibaku Tensei is performed by individuals who have awakened Six Paths senjutsu. And it requires *two* users.
> 
> It doesn't get simpler than that. Citing "listed users" of the databook is the inconsistency. We're talking about a technique which *requires two* individuals who awaken Six Paths senjutsu.



there is.


> Paths Sage Mode (六道仙人モード, Rikudō Sennin Mōdo), Sage Justu / Ninjutsu used by Naruto. Most of this page is too blurry to read, so I can only translate some of it.
> 
> The big header basically says it's a gift from the ancestor of shinobi that grants a supernatural mental state allowing for the complete, universal comprehension of all things.
> 
> ...


There is a better one which listed only Hago and Naruto as it's user.
I didn't see where it was stated that both user need to have six paths senjutsu.
and there is nothing about senjutsu in Sasuke's profile.do you not understand what I'm saying?all senjutsu users has Senjutsu as an ability in their profile but Sasuke dosen't.


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## Kai (Oct 12, 2015)

Shinobi No Kami said:
			
		

> yup, sasuke did possess six paths senjutsu. that was the yin seal. he doesnt have it anymore.


The fact that Sasuke could sense Naruto gathering the world's natural energy at VOTE2 points to the idea he possesses Six Paths senjutsu.



tkpirate said:


> There is a better one which listed only Hago and Naruto as it's user.
> I didn't see where it was stated that both user need to have six paths senjutsu.
> and there is nothing about senjutsu in Sasuke's profile.do you not understand what I'm saying?all senjutsu users has Senjutsu as an ability in their profile but Sasuke dosen't.


For the last time, Six Paths Sage Mode is one out of several Six Paths senjutsu. That is a DB entry on Six Paths Sage Mode.


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## Shinobi no Kami (Oct 12, 2015)

Kai said:


> The fact that Sasuke could sense Naruto gathering the world's natural energy at VOTE2 points to the idea he possesses Six Paths senjutsu.


no it doesnt. sasukes body is already compatible with senjutsu and he already wielded it prior.

of course he would be capable of feeling a buildup of natural energy. 

then theres the fact that he has only shown a sage power boosted chidori when he accessed chakra from the yin seal, destroying any argument that he still somehow has senjutsu.



tkpirate said:


> Manga have inconsistent showings and PIS.we can throw out stuff which doesn't make sense.without interpreting stuff which doesn't make any sense from physics point of view or logic.


>throwing out manga panel 

you're basically saying that kishi doesnt know how strong his characters are. you dont have a point here.




> Because it didn't took a direct hit from Juubi's tenpachi.


of course susano was directly hit, just like all of the kurama cloaked shinobi and naruto were directly hit. 
the power of the technique wasnt fully concentrated on madara nor the alliance shinobi though. thats why it didnt scratch susano, nor kill a single alliance member.

the energy inside toneris sword is spread too thin throughout the AOE of the blade, which is why it didnt hurt naruto, unlike a katana.
*it cut through the moon purely because of its AOE and the jinton effect of truthseekers.* 
this shouldnt be hard to understand.


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## tkpirate (Oct 12, 2015)

Kai said:


> For the last time, Six Paths Sage Mode is one out of several Six Paths senjutsu. That is a DB entry on Six Paths Sage Mode.



what are the other Six paths Senjusu?show me please?


> Uzumaki Naruto (p. ???)
> Uzumaki Naruto (うずまきナルト)
> 
> Kana: ?
> ...


^ this is Naruto's profile



> Uchiha Sasuke (p. ???)
> Uchiha Sasuke (うちはサスケ)
> 
> Kana: ?
> ...



you see that characteristics part?you see senjutsu in Naruto's profile but not in Sasuke's.because Sasuke can't use any type of Senjutsu.


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## tkpirate (Oct 12, 2015)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> >throwing out manga panel
> 
> you're basically saying that kishi doesnt know how strong his characters are. you dont have a point here.


nope,I'm saying he can't write stuff with consistency.




> of course susano was directly hit, just like all of the kurama cloaked shinobi and naruto were directly hit.
> the power of the technique wasnt fully concentrated on madara nor the alliance shinobi though. thats why it didnt scratch susano, nor kill a single alliance member.
> 
> the energy inside toneris sword is spread too thin throughout the AOE of the blade, which is why it didnt hurt naruto, unlike a katana.
> ...



you're right in the first part of your post.not in the second part.anyway Naruto stopped even more serious attack with his hand completely overpowered it.that means he overpowered entire attack energy with physical power.that also means Naruto's durability>that sword entire energy.
again AOE is not the only thing you need have enough energy or your sword would need to be tough enough.do you think Sasuke's katana with a AOE as big can do the same thing?


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## Kai (Oct 12, 2015)

tkpirate said:


> what are the other Six paths Senjusu?show me please?


Six Paths Chibaku Tensei is a Six Paths senjutsu. Noted by translators who have translated the DB entry.



			
				FF-Suzaku said:
			
		

> The caption in the bottom left says, roughly, "Nagato who wielded the Rinnegan attempted to use this jutsu to seal the Nine Tails."
> 
> I believe Chibaku Tensei is linked to the Rinnegan, *while the Six Paths variant is a Six Paths Senjutsu that uses the Yin and Yang seals.*



The technique Obito and Madara used to seal the Juubi within themselves, is also a Six Paths senjutsu.

Six Paths Sage Mode is only one of them, buddy. 



			
				tkpirate said:
			
		

> ^ this is Naruto's profile
> 
> 
> 
> you see that characteristics part?you see senjutsu in Naruto's profile but not in Sasuke's.because Sasuke can't use any type of Senjutsu.


Sasuke's not a Complete Susanoo user either then 

Six Paths Chibaku Tensei is performed by those who awaken Six Path senjutsu. Requires two people. 

Naruto and Sasuke are listed as users.


			
				FF-Suzaku said:
			
		

> Chibaku Tensei / Six Paths Chibaku Tensei" has a single entry, and lists "Nagato / *Naruto and Sasuke,* Hagoromo and Hamura" as its users. It's a kekkei genkai sealing jutsu.


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## Shinobi no Kami (Oct 12, 2015)

tkpirate said:


> nope,I'm saying he can't write stuff with consistency.


and in this specific instance, the only way you could make this claim is if you assert that kishi doesnt know how strong his characters are.





> you're right in the first part of your post.not in the second part.anyway Naruto stopped even more serious attack with his hand completely overpowered it.that means he overpowered entire attack energy with physical power.that also means Naruto's durability>that sword entire energy.
> again AOE is not the only thing you need have enough energy or your sword would need to be tough enough.do you think Sasuke's katana with a AOE as big can do the same thing?


naruto didnt counter a more serious attack. he countered the same attack by focusing his shroud into his hand.
naruto didnt take all of the swords energy at once. toneris fired it off like a beam and naruto ran through it. every single part of the swords energy  wasnt hitting him at the same time.

*does sasukes katana have the same jinton effect as truthseekers?*

why do you keep ignoring this?


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## tkpirate (Oct 12, 2015)

Kai said:


> Six Paths Chibaku Tensei is a Six Paths senjutsu. Noted by translators who have translated.


yes and the Senjutsu was coming from Naruto.



> Sasuke's not a Complete Susanoo user either then
> 
> Six Paths Chibaku Tensei is performed by those who awaken Six Path senjutsu. Requires two people.
> 
> Naruto and Sasuke are listed as users.


all Senjutsu users have it on their profile only Sasuke dosen't,you know what that means?
yes Naruto awakened it not Sasuke.Sasuke was needed to combine the yin power not for Senjutsu.


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## tkpirate (Oct 12, 2015)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> and in this specific instance, the only way you could make this claim is if you assert that kishi doesnt know how strong his characters are.


it's not that it's Kishi not caring about feats.




> naruto didnt counter a more serious attack. he countered the same attack by focusing his shroud into his hand.
> naruto didnt take all of the swords energy at once. toneris fired it off like a beam and naruto ran through it. every single part of the swords energy  wasnt hitting him at the same time.
> 
> *does sasukes katana have the same jinton effect as truthseekers?*
> ...



more serious in the sense Toneri looked more blood lusted.he took the entire energy that far more than what Sasuke's katana can do anyway.
It doesn't matter if Sasuke's Katana has jinton effect or not what matters is Sasuke's katana can't do what Toneri's sword did and it cant produce as much energy.
nothing to ignore you need energy for atomization.


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## Kai (Oct 12, 2015)

tkpirate said:


> yes and the Senjutsu was coming from Naruto.


Six Paths Chibaku Tensei is performed by those who awaken Six Paths senjutsu. Requires *two *people.

Outright stated 




			
				tkpirate said:
			
		

> all Senjutsu users have it on their profile only Sasuke dosen't,you know what that means?
> yes Naruto awakened it not Sasuke.Sasuke was needed to combine the yin power not for Senjutsu.


There is no DB profile for Six Paths senjutsu. And for the upteenth time, Six Paths Sage Mode is just one of several Six Paths senjutsu.


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## Shinobi no Kami (Oct 12, 2015)

tkpirate said:


> more serious in the sense Toneri looked more blood lusted.he took the entire energy that far more than what Sasuke's katana can do anyway.
> It doesn't matter if Sasuke's Katana has jinton effect or not what matters is Sasuke's katana can't do what Toneri's sword did and it cant produce as much energy.
> nothing to ignore you need energy for atomization.


toneri being bloodlusted doesnt make his attacks any more powerful. 

if sasukes katana was as long as toneris sword *and* had the jinton effect of truthseekers, yes it would cut the moon.

how do we know that toneris sword is pound for pound weaker than sasukes katana in cutting power? ask naruto, whom is the perfect example since he is immune to the erasing effects of truthseekers.  
a katana pierced naruto, while toneris sword couldnt.


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## Rocky (Oct 12, 2015)

Kai said:


> DB states in order to perform Six Paths Chibaku Tensei, two users with Six Paths senjutsu are required.



He borrowed that from Hagoromo, did he not? They clearly used the symbols on their hands to form Chibaku Tensei.


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## tkpirate (Oct 12, 2015)

Kai said:


> Six Paths Chibaku Tensei is performed by those who awaken Six Paths senjutsu. Requires *two *people.
> 
> Outright stated


to combine the power of yin and yang. both people don't need to have Senjutsu.





> There is no DB profile for Six Paths senjutsu. And for the upteenth time, Six Paths Sage Mode is just one of several Six Paths senjutsu.



it doesn't need to.Sasuke can't use any type of Senjutsu if he could use any version of it, it would be in his profile.
also Six paths Sage mode is a mode they are in while using Six paths Senjutsu.


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## tkpirate (Oct 12, 2015)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> if sasukes katana was as long as toneris sword *and* had the jinton effect of truthseekers, yes it would cut the moon.


the fact is it doesn't have jinton effect,the fact is that it's weaker than Toneri's sword.only having AOE dosen't mean shit




> how do we know that toneris sword is pound for pound weaker than sasukes katana in cutting power? ask naruto, whom is the perfect example since he is immune to the erasing effects of truthseekers.
> a katana pierced naruto, while toneris sword couldnt.



Sasuke's Katana is weaker because it wouldn't be able to cut the moon in half even if it has the AOE you're talking about
truthseekers only erase jutsu and chakra they don't erase other things.
that's why the Katana stuff is a inconsistent showing which doesn't make any sense and should be thrown out.we also have Oro's Kusanagi failing to pierce a much weaker Naruto.


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## Kai (Oct 12, 2015)

Rocky said:


> He borrowed that from Hagoromo, did he not? They clearly used the symbols on their hands to form Chibaku Tensei.


tkpirate and Hussain are denying even that, that he had any sort of Six Paths senjutsu 



tkpirate said:


> to combine the power of yin and yang. both people don't need to have Senjutsu.


It states Six Paths Chibaku Tensei is performed by those who awaken Six Paths senjutsu.





			
				tkpirate said:
			
		

> it doesn't need to.Sasuke can't use any type of Senjutsu if he could use any version of it, it would be in his profile.
> also Six paths Sage mode is a mode they are in while using Six paths Senjutsu.


My lord tkpirate.

Sasuke performed Six Paths Chibaku Tensei using his Yin seal as one half of the sealing. *Six Paths Chibaku Tensei is a Six Paths senjutsu.*


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## tkpirate (Oct 12, 2015)

Kai said:


> tkpirate and Hussain are denying even that, that he had any sort of Six Paths senjutsu


it's not ever stated in the manga or that databook.it has been denied by the manga and that poorly written data book.




> It states Six Paths Chibaku Tensei is performed by those who awaken Six Paths senjutsu.


that statement it self doesn't make any sense when by that data book the jutsu can't be used by a person individually,and can be used as a tag team.it never said both people are needed to have Senjutsu.two people are needed to only combine the power of yin and yang.




> My lord tkpirate.
> 
> Sasuke performed Six Paths Chibaku Tensei using his Yin seal as one half of the sealing. *Six Paths Chibaku Tensei is a Six Paths senjutsu.*



Sasuke didn't use it on his own.if the Senjutsu is needed it can all come from Naruto.Sasuke was only need to combine the power of yin with Naruto's yang.
your entire argument is based on the data book which isn't written by Kishi and has many faults.and even it doesn't support you.why the fuck would only Sasuke wouldn't have Senjusu in his profile when every Senjutsu user has it


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## Shinobi no Kami (Oct 12, 2015)

tkpirate said:


> the fact is it doesn't have jinton effect,the fact is that it's weaker than Toneri's sword.only having AOE dosen't mean shit


toneris sword only has to be longer than the moon since the truthseekers automatically erase anything that they touch. 





> Sasuke's Katana is weaker because it wouldn't be able to cut the moon in half even if it has the AOE you're talking about
> *truthseekers only erase jutsu and chakra* they don't erase other things.


what the fuck? hiruzen blatantly compared it to jinton.
truthseekers not only erased hiruzens shurikens, but also completely erased the ground that it touched.


and erased minatos kunai.




> that's why the Katana stuff is a inconsistent showing which doesn't make any sense and should be thrown out.we also have Oro's Kusanagi failing to pierce a much weaker Naruto.


the kn4 shroud is more dense than narutos cloak
the V1 shroud chakra is more durable than narutos cloak.


still not seeing a proper rebuttal for a katana piercing naruto, but toneris sword being tanked. my explanation holds.


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## tkpirate (Oct 12, 2015)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> toneris sword only has to be longer than the moon since the truthseekers automatically erase anything that they touch.


no they don't.




> what the fuck? hiruzen blatantly compared it to jinton.
> truthseekers not only erased hiruzens shurikens, but also completely erased the ground that it touched.
> 
> 
> and erased minatos kunai.


the fuck?
Jinton don't erase shit.it atomization just a higher form of destruction.giogio
Truthseeker can be sub-atomization even higher form of destruction.





> the kn4 shroud is more dense than narutos cloak
> the V1 shroud chakra is more durable than narutos cloak.
> 
> 
> still not seeing a proper rebuttal for a katana piercing naruto, but toneris sword being tanked. my explanation holds.



a stronger character having less durability that weaker character?
Naruto's Kn4 shroud being more dense than his BSM Shroud when he is using kyuubi's full chakra?
surely your explanation holds.


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## Shinobi no Kami (Oct 12, 2015)

tkpirate said:


> no they don't.


concession accepted. 




> the fuck?
> Jinton don't erase shit.it atomization just a higher form of destruction.giogio
> Truthseeker can be sub-atomization even higher form of destruction.


whatever part of the moon that was hit by toneris blade was turned to dust. cutting the entire moon was made possible by the AOE of the blade.

this doesnt mean anything when judging how it damages targets that it cant erase. the blade didnt hurt naruto, whom can be pierced by a katana. the most that the blade did to naruto was slam him into the ground.

its true damage output as shown when it hit naruto indicates that its energy is spread too thin throughout the AOE of the blade, hence why a katana can hurt naruto while toneris blade cant.






> a stronger character having less durability that weaker character?
> Naruto's Kn4 shroud being more dense than his BSM Shroud when he is using kyuubi's full chakra?
> surely your explanation holds.


of course it does.


his six paths sage mode cloak is not what he uses for defense. he uses his chakra extensions to block attacks. 
the chakra hands and extensions that naruto makes are more durable than his cloak.


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## Tarot (Oct 12, 2015)

Senjutsu literally means Sage Technique, it doesn't necessarily require being in Sage Mode. Orochimaru could still use senjutsu such as his Curse Mark despite never accomplishing Sage Mode.


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## tkpirate (Oct 12, 2015)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> whatever part of the moon that was hit by toneris blade was turned to dust. cutting the entire moon was made possible by the AOE of the blade.
> 
> this doesnt mean anything when judging how it damages targets that it cant erase. the blade didnt hurt naruto, whom can be pierced by a katana. the most that the blade did to naruto was slam him into the ground.
> 
> its true damage output as shown when it hit naruto indicates that its energy is spread too thin throughout the AOE of the blade, hence why a katana can hurt naruto while toneris blade cant.



the blade didn't hurt Naruto because he tanked it.
and Jinton don't erase shit.truthseekers only erase Ninjutsu and chakra.
also Toneri's truthseeker were powered by Tenseigan/Hamura's chakra.Naruto has Nothing to do with it.
even if the energy is spread throughout the AOE of the blade,it's still far more than Sasuke's Katana.




> of course it does.
> 
> 
> his six paths sage mode cloak is not what he uses for defense. he uses his chakra extensions to block attacks.
> the chakra hands and extensions that naruto makes are more durable than his cloak.


not always.
He didn't use anything to block Oro's kusanagi it just didn't pierce him.he didn't use anything to block Kaguya's chakra punches and only got pushed back.same attack destroyed Sasuke's PS.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 12, 2015)

I don't know why Shinobi no Kami keeps bringing up _Sasuke's Kusanagi_ piercing Naruto either. Given it could run Madara through, its clearly not a normal sword. And Hashirama could kill himself with an ordinary kunai.


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## Shinobi no Kami (Oct 12, 2015)

tkpirate said:


> the blade didn't hurt Naruto because he tanked it.
> and Jinton don't erase shit.truthseekers only erase Ninjutsu and chakra.
> also Toneri's truthseeker were powered by Tenseigan/Hamura's chakra.Naruto has Nothing to do with it.
> even if the energy is spread throughout the AOE of the blade,it's still far more than Sasuke's Katana.


an ignored argument is a conceded one.

truthseekers have already atomized something other than chakra and i already blatantly showed you.


truthseekers can atomize anything that isnt senjutsu enhanced.



> not always.
> He didn't use anything to block Oro's kusanagi it just didn't pierce him.he didn't use anything to block Kaguya's chakra punches and only got pushed back.same attack destroyed Sasuke's PS.


the kn4 cloak is a stronger kn1 cloak mixed with narutos blood. the kn1 chakra cloak is more durable than his shroud. this isnt hard to understand.
kn1 chakra extensions are what naruto uses for defense.

naruto tried to counter kaguyas chakra punches with his own, then was blown back. this doesnt change the fact that a katana can pierce him.


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## tkpirate (Oct 12, 2015)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> an ignored argument is a conceded one.
> 
> truthseekers have already atomized something other than chakra and i already blatantly showed you.
> 
> ...


and the thing you don't understand is that you need energy to atomize stuff.it's not some magical BS,it's not erasing stuff.Truthseekers erase ninjutsu and chakra.but when it's used like a bijuu bomb or an attack it's just a higher form of destruction.which Naruto isn's immune to.



> the kn4 cloak is a stronger kn1 cloak mixed with narutos blood. the kn1 chakra cloak is more durable than his shroud. this isnt hard to understand.
> kn1 chakra extensions are what naruto uses for defense.
> 
> naruto tried to counter kaguyas chakra punches with his own, then was blown back. this doesnt change the fact that a katana can pierce him.



kn1 more durable than his BM shroud?nope.
the thing Naruto used in that scan is a chakra arm not kn1 cloak.
and he has tanked stronger attacks so that Kusanagi being able to pierce him doesn't make a y sense.


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## Kyu (Oct 13, 2015)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> I don't know why Shinobi no Kami keeps bringing up _Sasuke's Kusanagi_ piercing Naruto either. Given it could run Madara through, its clearly not a normal sword. And Hashirama could kill himself with an ordinary kunai.



Different sword. Sasuke lost kusanagi here.

We're provided zero indication his new sword has the same unique properties his old blade had. The only similarity is that he can channel a relatively small amount of raiton chakra through his blade - a feat we've high tier shinobi like Bee perform on makeshift weapons with no special characteristics in the past. 

His katana piercing Naruto is an outlier because no one with his level of physical strength was wielding the blade as it penetrated Nardo's RSM cloak.


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## Rai (Oct 13, 2015)

Kyu said:


> *Different sword. Sasuke lost kusanagi here.*
> 
> We're provided zero indication his new sword has the same unique properties his old blade had. The only similarity is that he can channel a relatively small amount of raiton chakra through his blade - a feat we've high tier shinobi like Bee perform on makeshift weapons with no special characteristics in the past.
> 
> His katana piercing Naruto is an outlier because no one with his level of physical strength was wielding the blade as it penetrated Nardo's RSM cloak.



That is the Katana's sheath: surround the Sandaime

Last time we saw that katana was here I think: surround the Sandaime

Anyway, Hashirama's skin isn't made of steel.

He can be pierced by Kunai, Katana, Black rods...etc


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## Kyu (Oct 13, 2015)

Oh, I thought the sword was sheathed when it fell into the lava.

In any event, he's seems to be using a new one, however I appreciate the clarification nonetheless.


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## Shinobi no Kami (Oct 15, 2015)

last post here since im getting tired of dealing with your nonsense. you keep blatantly ignoring my posts.


tkpirate said:


> and the thing you don't understand is that you need energy to atomize stuff.it's not some magical BS,it's not erasing stuff.Truthseekers erase ninjutsu and chakra.but when it's used like a bijuu bomb or an attack it's just a higher form of destruction.which Naruto isn's immune to.


truthseekers are blatantly stated to have the same effects as jinton. truthseekers do not only erase chakra and ninjutsu. 

can you see the contents of the spoiler? the item that the truthseekers erased in that scan, does it look like chakra or ninjutsu?



> kn1 more durable than his BM shroud?nope.
> the thing Naruto used in that scan is a chakra arm not kn1 cloak.
> and he has tanked stronger attacks so that Kusanagi being able to pierce him doesn't make a y sense.


notice how everyone protected by the kn1 cloak is unharmed


but naruto is bloodied?


notice how kn4(an advancement on the kn1 cloak) tanks the kusanagi


but naruto cant tank a katana even with a six paths sage mode shroud?


the chakra extensions that naruto can create are durable. narutos cloak is not defensive in nature.


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## Marsala (Oct 15, 2015)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> the chakra extensions that naruto can create are durable. narutos cloak is not defensive in nature.



This. Naruto's Kyuubi head is the defense and the sword was already inside it. His Six Paths cloak is cosmetic and provides virtually no defense. And every ninja, from 40-year-old Genin with the tie up to Kaguya are vulnerable to edged weapons unless they are specifically using a barrier-form chakra shroud or body hardening like Kakuzu.


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## tkpirate (Oct 16, 2015)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> last post here since im getting tired of dealing with your nonsense. you keep blatantly ignoring my posts.


nope i don't ignore your posts.it just that everything I write just fly over your head.



> truthseekers are blatantly stated to have the same effects as jinton. truthseekers do not only erase chakra and ninjutsu.
> 
> can you see the contents of the spoiler? the item that the truthseekers erased in that scan, does it look like chakra or ninjutsu?


truthseekers have two aspects.
1.the magical aspect of nullifying or erasing ninjutsu.you see Obito use it to nullify ninjutsu.
2.it's destructive aspect same as Jinton as stated by Sarutobi.you see Kaguya use it when she was going to destroy everything.that kunai was cut in half by that Goudama staff be Goudama>a fucking Kunai.
Naruto or anyone isn't immune to it's destructive aspect.
when Kaguya was going to destroy everything with her Goudama everyone would have died.now don't tell me that Kaguya's massive Goudama would have failed to kill Naruto.




> notice how everyone protected by the kn1 cloak is unharmed
> 
> 
> but naruto is bloodied?
> ...



because it was Naruto's chakra that was protecting everyone,Naruto took all the damage.
Saying KN1 is>KCM in anything are you even serious
it's still more durable than fucking KN1


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## Zef (Oct 16, 2015)

Kyu said:


> Different sword. Sasuke lost kusanagi here.
> 
> We're provided zero indication his new sword has the same unique properties his old blade had. The only similarity is that he can channel a relatively small amount of raiton chakra through his blade - a feat we've high tier shinobi like Bee perform on makeshift weapons with no special characteristics in the past.
> 
> His katana piercing Naruto is an outlier because no one with his level of physical strength was wielding the blade as it penetrated Nardo's RSM cloak.


The new sword is Kusanagi. 


Either Sasuke had the blade refitted to a different handle & scabbard or simply got another variant of Kusanagi, but it is a Kusanagi.


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## Blu-ray (Oct 16, 2015)

Marsala said:


> This. Naruto's Kyuubi head is the defense and the sword was already inside it. His Six Paths cloak is cosmetic and provides virtually no defense. And every ninja, from 40-year-old Genin with the tie up to Kaguya are vulnerable to edged weapons unless they are specifically using a barrier-form chakra shroud or body hardening like Kakuzu.



Naruto's six paths mode let him tank Chidori point black with no apparent damage whatsoever, so it not giving him defense is bullshit. Even KCM let Naruto tank swords, touch lava, and even withstand a punch from Ay with practically zero damage. If the shroud offers no defense, that means Naruto's bare skin is naturally that durable, which is obviously bullshit.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Oct 16, 2015)

Not even sure why sasuke's kusanagi running through naruto is even such a big deal when his kusanagi has other feats on the god tier level.

Breaking kinshiki's chakra weapons on multiple occasions while not suffering any damage.
Running straight through juubi jin madara

Both done without chakra enhancement/raiton flow.


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## Cormag (Oct 27, 2015)

sasuke stomps here, though his adult form definitely has pathetic feats.


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## SuperDragonGirl (May 30, 2016)

I imagine the same scenario as in the Last Movie except Sasuke would have killed Toneri a lot faster.
Not to say that Sasuke is stronger but he is stronger than the power The Last Naruto displayed in the movie. Naruto wasn't using his six paths mode which was the yang to sasuke's ying of power.
Sasuke casually destroyed a giant meteor that was going to destroy the country.

In Tenseigan Mode Toneri was around but a little weaker than Biju Sage Mode Naruto. Meaning Naruto beat Toneri without six paths mode.
Sasuke Rinnegan's power is stronger than biju sage mode and a little weaker than six paths mode. Even if Sasuke doesn't have senjutsu he has
Perfect Susanoo which swords a can kill Toneri. Sasuke also has close combat teleportation and can kill Toneri faster than Naruto can say Rasengan.


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## UchihaX28 (May 30, 2016)

Wow, were people literally debating about whether or not Sasuke had Rikudou Senjutsu?

 Well, this calls for a thread then.


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## Shining Force (May 30, 2016)

Toneri is one of the most impressive feat-wise, playing the moon like a toy (yeah even after the tenseigan vessel destroyed). 

But portrayal-wise, he was one-punched by RM Naruto who also physically overpowered his moon-cutting blade. So current Sasuke could beat him comfortably when serious.

But Toneri with all Byakugans absorbed is stronger (at least than RM Naruto), given he could deplete RM Naruto's chakra in mere moments, and was going to destroy the earth with an energy blast if not for over-absorption of sun's energy.


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## Zensuki (May 30, 2016)

I'll give Toneri 2 seconds before he gets skewered.


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## Raiken (May 30, 2016)

Pretty even fight, could go either way but I'd say Sasuke wins Extreme Difficulty.
If Toneri has his Golem to help, Toneri wins High Difficulty.

The Gollem could hold it's own against a 100% Bijuu Mode as well...


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## SuperDragonGirl (May 30, 2016)

Cryorex said:


> Pretty even fight, could go either way but I'd say Sasuke wins Extreme Difficulty.
> If Toneri has his Golem to help, Toneri wins High Difficulty.
> 
> The Gollem could hold it's own against a 100% Bijuu Mode as well...



Sasuke wins in all scenarios
Toneri's Golem was beat by Kurama who wasn't at 100% as him and Naruto were fighting separately. Not to mention Sasuke has Perfect Susanoo which can probably squash Toneri and his Golem if the 9 Tails without Naruto could beat the Golem.

Naruto and Sasuke should be small planet level at full power since Naruto shrugged off a moon level attack while being heavily restricted (no kyuubi) and Toneri Moon+ level


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## OneSimpleAnime (May 30, 2016)

Sasuke wins this. Did everyone just ignore Sasuke being able to stand on Naruto's Gudodama? He could do that because he had six paths chakra, which they cant negate

Sasuke wins this


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## Klue (May 31, 2016)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> yup, sasuke did possess six paths senjutsu. that was the yin seal. he doesnt have it anymore.



He was able to sense nature power even after losing the Six Path Yin Seal, and he still has Six Path chakra. 

​
And before someone hits me with the "_if there is a ton of nature energy anyone can sense it_" bull shit:

​
Let's put this shit to rest.

ck


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## Trojan (Jun 1, 2016)

Klue said:


> He was able to sense nature power even after losing the Six Path Yin Seal, and he still has Six Path chakra.
> 
> ​
> And before someone hits me with the "_if there is a ton of nature energy anyone can sense it_" bull shit:
> ...



Minato was also able to sense Obito's chakra even without using SM. 
I know you are desperate for Sasuke to have Senjutsu, but he does not, get over it. ck

Tho I can't blame you since SM > Eye-related shit.

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## Mercurial (Jun 1, 2016)

Toneri was defeated, without much trouble, by a Naruto weaker than his adult version, and who wasn't even going all out to defeat him. Adult Sasuke is more or less equal to Adult Naruto, so Sasuke trashes Toneri.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Blu-ray (Jun 1, 2016)

Hussain said:


> Minato was also able to sense Obito's chakra even without using SM.



Since when is sensing chakra the same as sensing Natural Energy?

Reactions: Like 2


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## SuperDragonGirl (Jun 1, 2016)

Raikiri19 said:


> Toneri was defeated, without much trouble, by a Naruto weaker than his adult version, and who wasn't even going all out to defeat him. Adult Sasuke is more or less equal to Adult Naruto, so Sasuke trashes Toneri.


Exactly


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## Trojan (Jun 1, 2016)

VolatileSoul said:


> Since when is sensing chakra the same as sensing Natural Energy?


NE is the type of chakra the Juubi has, and hence his hosts, no? 
Minato compared JJ Obito's chakra to JJ Asspulldara's chakra. Therefore, he must have sensed their NE
in order to be able to compare. 

If you say that NE is different when it's inside a human, then that would also mean it's different when Sauske "sensed" it.

Reactions: Disagree 2


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## Platypus (Jun 1, 2016)

It doesn't really matter whether Hinata or Minato were able to sense the Jinchuriki's chakra cos its nature might've been different from the Jubi's original form. 
*However:* Kurama said the Jubi was pure natural energy and suggested that Naruto would need to enter Sage Mode in order to sense it. Then chapters later the Alliance HQ's sensor people were able to sense its chakra just fine. So methinks Kurama's dialogue in ch. 610 is a bunch of bullshit, unless they were strictly talking about the chakra's _evilness _but then how comes sage sensing into play?

Anyway, someone who's somewhat experienced in senjutsu should be able to sense natural energy, even if they're not in sage mode. Otherwise they'd have a hard time gathering the very energy they need in order to enter sage mode but can't sense, right? And wasn't Naruto able to sense natural energy before he technically achieved sage mode during the pre-Pain Invasion training? (asking cos I'm not entirely sure)

So I can imagine Sasuke who handled the Cursed Seal, used his Susano'o in conjunction w/ Jugo's sage chakra and used RCT which supposedly requires two users who have both acquired senjutsu (in the form of Hagoromo's seals), would be able to sense natural energy to some degree.

Which doesn't explain how the Sensor Division – none of whom have any sort of experience in senjutsu as far as we know – managed to sense a 'purely natural' Jubi.

(SHRUG)


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## Trojan (Jun 1, 2016)

Platypus said:


> Then chapters later the Alliance HQ's sensor people were able to sense its chakra just fine. So methinks Kurama's dialogue in ch. 610 is a bunch of bullshit, unless they were strictly talking about the chakra's _evilness _but then how comes sage sensing into play?


completely forgot about this one.


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## Klue (Jun 1, 2016)

Hussain said:


> Minato was also able to sense Obito's *chakra* even without using SM.



When do you need Sage Mode to sense chakra?

*Edit*: I see VSoul already took this one. 



Hussain said:


> NE is the type of chakra the Juubi has, and hence his hosts, no?
> Minato compared JJ Obito's chakra to JJ Asspulldara's chakra. Therefore, he must have sensed their NE
> in order to be able to compare.
> 
> If you say that NE is different when it's inside a human, then that would also mean it's different when Sauske "sensed" it.



Nature energy isn't the same as nor is it a type of chakra.

Stop.

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1


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## Klue (Jun 1, 2016)

Platypus said:


> It doesn't really matter whether Hinata or Minato were able to sense the Jinchuriki's chakra cos its nature might've been different from the Jubi's original form.
> *However:* Kurama said the Jubi was pure natural energy and suggested that Naruto would need to enter Sage Mode in order to sense it. Then chapters later the Alliance HQ's sensor people were able to sense its chakra just fine.



Pretty sure they were referring to the Juubi's Bijuudama. 

I'll have to check though.

*Edit*: Never mind, the sensing sphere responded to Juubi's transformation.

Kishi made a mistake I think.



Platypus said:


> Anyway, someone who's somewhat experienced in senjutsu should be able to sense natural energy, even if they're not in sage mode. Otherwise they'd have a hard time gathering the very energy they need in order to enter sage mode but can't sense, right? And wasn't Naruto able to sense natural energy before he technically achieved sage mode during the pre-Pain Invasion training? (asking cos I'm not entirely sure)



Yes, by remaining completely still one is able to sense nature's power.


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## Blu-ray (Jun 1, 2016)

Hussain said:


> NE is the type of chakra the Juubi has, and hence his hosts, no?
> Minato compared JJ Obito's chakra to JJ Asspulldara's chakra. Therefore, he must have sensed their NE
> in order to be able to compare.



Natural Energy by itself isn't chakra. What the Juubi's hosts have is Senjutsu chakra, of which Natural Energy is just a component. It's still chakra, hence it can still be sensed by conventional means. All Minato did was sense the clear difference in the quality of their chakra.



> If you say that NE is different when it's inside a human, then that would also mean it's different when Sauske "sensed" it.



Well of course it's different. It's melded with physical and spiritual energy to create something new entirely. But that doesn't really change that Sauce still sensed it since he said so himself now does it.



Platypus said:


> *However:* Kurama said the Jubi was pure natural energy and suggested that Naruto would need to enter Sage Mode in order to sense it. Then chapters later the Alliance HQ's sensor people were able to sense its chakra just fine. So methinks Kurama's dialogue in ch. 610 is a bunch of bullshit, unless they were strictly talking about the chakra's _evilness _but then how comes sage sensing into play?



I just took that to mean Negative Emotion Sensing specifically was useless on it due to it lacking actual thoughts or ideals. I don't think Kurama mode ever gave Naruto the ability to sense chakra aside from when he sensed Kurama's own in a different place. Even with the Mazo it seemed he was less detecting the chakra itself and more the negativity exuding from it.

As for the sensory squad detecting it, composed of NE it may be, it has to have chakra in some capacity. It's not like the nine Bijuu's chakra turned into NE or just upped and stopped existing. But that's just me guessing. Not like I can say for sure since I have no idea since Kishi made this shit confusing as hell.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Klue (Jun 1, 2016)

VolatileSoul said:


> Natural Energy by itself isn't chakra. What the Juubi's hosts have is Senjutsu chakra, of which Natural Energy is just a component. It's still chakra, hence it can still be sensed by conventional means. All Minato did was sense the clear difference in the quality of their chakra.
> 
> Well of course it's different. It's melded with physical and spiritual energy to create something new entirely. But that doesn't really change that Sauce still sensed it since he said so himself now does it.



Taking out @Hussain, too easy. 



VolatileSoul said:


> I just took that to mean *Negative Emotion Sensing* specifically was useless on it due to it lacking actual thoughts or ideals. I don't think Kurama mode ever gave Naruto the ability to sense chakra aside from when he sensed Kurama's own in a different place. Even with the Mazo it seemed he was less detecting the chakra itself and more the negativity exuding from it.
> 
> As for the sensory squad detecting it, composed of NE it may be, it has to have chakra in some capacity. It's not like the nine Bijuu's chakra turned into NE or just upped and stopped existing. But that's just me guessing. Not like I can say for sure since I have no idea since Kishi made this shit confusing as hell.



Yup.

Naruto uses Sage Mode to sense chakra, Kurama Mode for emotion sensing.

I believe we have a winner. 


To be fair though, Naruto should have said "evil Mazou" instead of "it's evil chakra."

Reactions: Like 1


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## Trojan (Jun 1, 2016)

VolatileSoul said:


> Natural Energy by itself isn't chakra. What the Juubi's hosts have is Senjutsu chakra, of which Natural Energy is just a component. It's still chakra, hence it can still be sensed by conventional means. All Minato did was sense the clear difference in the quality of their chakra.


And what does the Juubi have in your opinion?


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## Blu-ray (Jun 1, 2016)

Hussain said:


> And what does the Juubi have in your opinion?



Something that Hyuuga eyes can see and fodder alliance members can sense with a puddle of water, as the thread established, in other words not pure Natural Energy. Unless you're gonna tell me they can see and sense NE as well.

Or are you gonna tell me Sasuke didn't _really_ sense NE, but chakra instead, despite explicitly calling by name what he felt and the amount of it he felt?

See? You're not the only one who can use the  emote 'sain


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## UchihaX28 (Jun 1, 2016)

Hussain said:


> NE is the type of chakra the Juubi has, and hence his hosts, no?
> Minato compared JJ Obito's chakra to JJ Asspulldara's chakra. Therefore, he must have sensed their NE
> in order to be able to compare.
> 
> If you say that NE is different when it's inside a human, then that would also mean it's different when Sauske "sensed" it.



 No, the Juubi clearly has chakra unless you think Hinata's Byakugan can detect Natural Energy.


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## King Shark (Jun 1, 2016)

Sasuke bisects toneri into two.


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## TheWiggian (Jun 5, 2016)

Sasuke gives him a rape that Toneri never forgets.


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## Icegaze (Jun 5, 2016)

sasuke low diff's here

I imagine a blitz and Susanoo chidori


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## Shinobi no Kami (Jun 10, 2016)

Klue said:


> He was able to sense nature power even after losing the Six Path Yin Seal, and he still has Six Path chakra.
> 
> ​
> And before someone hits me with the "_if there is a ton of nature energy anyone can sense it_" bull shit:
> ...


yeah, lets put this shit to rest. the sasuke fanbase needs to stop being retarded. 

nope.  fukasaku stated that being able to *sense the flow of natural energy in your base form* is a prerequisite to going into sage mode. sasuke can do the former, but he cant do the latter. in other words, you dont need sage chakra to merely sense natural energy flowing around you.

in the case of the juubi, its comprised of the same natural energy that circulates the planet, but its just a big body of natural energy that isnt actually flowing, hence why naruto cant sense the juubis natural energy in his base form. he needs sage mode.


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## Klue (Jun 10, 2016)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> yeah, lets put this shit to rest. the sasuke fanbase needs to stop being retarded.
> 
> nope.  fukasaku stated that being able to *sense the flow of natural energy in your base form* is a prerequisite to going into sage mode.



Which requires the person to remain completely still. Naruto had to train himself to do that.



Shinobi no Kami said:


> in the case of the juubi, its comprised of the same natural energy that circulates the planet, but its just a big body of natural energy that isnt actually flowing, hence why naruto cant sense the juubis natural energy in his base form. he needs sage mode.



He had to enter Sage Mode because it wasn't flowing.

This guy.


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## Shinobi no Kami (Jun 10, 2016)

Klue said:


> Which requires the person to remain completely still. Naruto had to train himself to do that.


this is a reach. naruto has to remain completely still to *collect* natural energy. 
even gamakichi was able to sense the natural energy flowing to fukasaku while he himself was not utilizing any sage power.




> He had to enter Sage Mode because it wasn't flowing.
> 
> This guy.


he had to enter sage mode because there was no "juubi natural energy" physically flowing around him to feel.


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## Klue (Jun 10, 2016)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> this is a reach. naruto has to remain completely still to *collect* natural energy.
> even gamakichi was able to sense the natural energy flowing to fukasaku while he himself was not utilizing any sage power.





How do you know young Kichi wasn't using Sage Power? 




Shinobi no Kami said:


> he had to enter sage mode because there was no "juubi natural energy" physically flowing around him to feel.



You're making shit up now.

He entered Sage Mode because his Kurama Mode couldn't sense negative emotions coming from the Juubi.


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## Shinobi no Kami (Jun 10, 2016)

Klue said:


> How do you know young Kichi wasn't using Sage Power?


fukasaku had to make a seal and remain motionless while gamakichi wasnt implied anywhere to be utilizing sage power at that time. he was moving and talking during the entire demonstration.






> You're making shit up now.
> 
> He entered Sage Mode because his Kurama Mode couldn't sense negative emotions coming from the Juubi.


being able to sense the flow of nature around them is something that all people trained in the sage arts can do in their base form. thats stated by fukasaku. that isnt debatable.

naruto went in kurama mode because he couldnt detect the juubi in that form. kurama states that the juubi is one big mass of natural energy, hence he goes into sage mode. how exactly does this help your point?
fukasakus previous statement still stands and people trained in the sage arts are still able to *sense the flow* of natural energy in their base form.

the juubis natural energy isnt flowing all over the place for everyone to feel. its stays to its own body. if it did, base naruto would have physically felt the mass amount of natural energy in the same way that sasuke did as fukasaku stated that anyone trained in the art of sage would be able to.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 10, 2016)

Anyway, Sasuke wins this because he has sage chakra. He can stand on Naruto's Gudodama


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## Klue (Jun 10, 2016)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> fukasaku had to make a seal and remain motionless while gamakichi wasnt implied anywhere to be utilizing sage power at that time. he was moving and talking during the entire demonstration.



Maybe he already had Sage Power prepped. 

I don't recall him gathering Sage Power when he fired off one last attack at Juubito. 

Kichi always prepared. 



Shinobi no Kami said:


> being able to sense the flow of nature around them is something that all people trained in the sage arts can do in their base form. thats stated by fukasaku. that isnt debatable.



While remaining still.



Don't try to ignore key details because you don't like them. 



Shinobi no Kami said:


> naruto went in kurama mode because he couldnt detect the juubi in that form.



Detect the Juubi's emotions. 



Shinobi no Kami said:


> fukasakus previous statement still stands and people trained in the sage arts are still able to *sense the flow* of natural energy in their base form.



While remaining still, like he says. 



Shinobi no Kami said:


> the juubis natural energy isnt flowing all over the place for everyone to feel. its stays to its own body. if it did, base naruto would have physically felt the mass amount of natural energy in the same way that sasuke did as fukasaku stated that anyone trained in the art of sage would be able to.



Again, Fuka stated that one needs to remain still to sense nature's energy.

Fact.


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## Shinobi no Kami (Jun 10, 2016)

Klue said:


> Maybe he already had Sage Power prepped.
> 
> I don't recall him gathering Sage Power when he fired off one last attack at Juubito.
> 
> Kichi always prepared.


nothing implies that gamakichi is always in sage mode for no reason.
gamakichi was off-panel during the entire conversation between obito & the group.





> While remaining still.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


whats your point here? sasuke wasnt moving when he felt the natural energy that was flowing to naruto.


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