# 8 Year Old Itachi takes a Part I Gauntlet



## Ersa (Nov 18, 2013)

​*Location*: Alliance vs. Madara
*Distance*: 5m
*Knowledge*: Full for Itachi, none for his opponents.
*Mindset*: In-character
*Conditions/Restrictions*:
- He is healed after each fight.

He fights
- Mizuki
- Wave Arc Sasuke
- Tenten
- Neji
- Tayuya
- Shikamaru
- Orochimaru

How does the Hokage wisdom, best the Academy has ever seen, Sharingan-mastering 8 year old Chunin do?


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## Sadgoob (Nov 18, 2013)

At the very least, as a Chūnin with the 3-tomoe Sharingan, he's comparable to Sasuke at the end of part one, but with complete dōjutsu mastery, Kage Bunshin, and is likely smarter in battle. 

So Orochimaru's the only one worth debating here.

The databook says he completely defeated Orochimaru with his eyes, and he was stated to have mastered his eyes at age eight, so that pretty much means he could do what he did at age 11 at age 8.

So yeah. Itachi clears pretty easily. ​


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## Nikushimi (Nov 18, 2013)

We don't really have any feats for this Itachi; all we really know is that he can use Kage Bunshin and Sharingan at this age.

If you allow anime feats, you have him casually soloing the giant ninja cat and his army (that Wave Country Arc Team 7 collectively struggled to defeat, against fewer numbers) and that kunai training scene where Orochimaru is masturbating to his mad skills.

Going by manga feats only, the absolute best you could probably justify is Itachi beating Mizuki and/or Tenten. Going by anime feats as well, 8-y/o Itachi beats all of them with the exception of Orochimaru and possibly Tayuya.


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## asstonine (Nov 19, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> At the very least, as a Chūnin with the 3-tomoe Sharingan, he's comparable to Sasuke at the end of part one, but with complete dōjutsu mastery, Kage Bunshin, and is likely smarter in battle.
> 
> So Orochimaru's the only one worth debating here.
> 
> ...



Stop with the fanfictions!

He did not defeat orochimaru at 11, I have already shown this!  It is a databook error!

Sasuke said he mastered the Sharingan.  Not exactly a reliable source!  Every 8 year old boy thinks their big brother/Father are akin to Hercules.


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## Sadgoob (Nov 19, 2013)

Right. You believe Itachi was 24 in part one because? Also:



			
				Databook said:
			
		

> Even as a member of the elite clan, Itachi was someone special. He always exceeded his father’s expectations, his brother’s idolatry.



So your second argument isn't solid at all.​


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## asstonine (Nov 19, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> Right. You believe Itachi was 24 in part one because?



No, I don't believe that.

But as I said, 2 reliable sources versus the unreliable databook.
Only a complete idiot would choose one number listed in the databook!



Strategoob said:


> The databook (author) also says that Itachi always surpassed his brother's adulation, so your second point is also moot.[/indent]



Yah, and we know how reliable he is...
The DB is nothing but trash they print up to make additional money!


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## Veracity (Nov 19, 2013)

Tayuya shuts him down, Oro rapes.


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## Sadgoob (Nov 19, 2013)

asstonine said:


> No, I don't believe that.
> 
> But as I said, 2 reliable sources versus the unreliable databook.
> Only a complete idiot would choose one number listed in the databook!



What? The manga says that Orochimaru fled because of Itachi ten years prior (in part two) and seven years prior (in part one.) Itachi was ages 17-18 and 21 respectively in the databooks at those times. 

So what evidence do you have?​


asstonine said:


> Yah, and we know how reliable he is...



So you're ignoring the author. Mkay.​


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## asstonine (Nov 19, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> What? The manga says that Orochimaru fled because of Itachi ten years prior (in part two) and seven years prior (in part one.) Itachi was ages 17-18 and 21 respectively in the databooks at those times.
> 
> So what evidence do you have?​



The 17-18 age was only listed in the DB, which is wrong.

There is tons of evidence in the manga and anime.
The simplest of which are mere depictions.  He is obviously a young adult, about 18!  Any fool can see that, and there is much more.  That alone should be enough to convince anyone though, anyone interested in the truth anyways.

This puts him at about ~21 in part 1, and ~24 in part 2.



Strategoob said:


> So you're ignoring the author. Mkay.​



The DB authors, yes.  Because they only make up figures and one liners filler to sell a book.​


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## Dr. White (Nov 19, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> Tayuya shuts him down, Oro rapes.




From 5 meters? She isn't escaping him physically, nor is she getting out of his kunai range.


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## Sadgoob (Nov 19, 2013)

asstonine said:


> The 17-18 age was only listed in the DB, which is wrong.
> 
> There is tons of evidence in the manga *and anime.*


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## asstonine (Nov 19, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> **



The anime is more cannon than that laughable databook you keep using.

I like how you can't counter any argument though, just make retarded faces.  


I will take that as a concession!


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## Dr. White (Nov 19, 2013)

WTF did i just read....


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## Veracity (Nov 19, 2013)

Dr. White said:


> From 5 meters? She isn't escaping him physically, nor is she getting out of his kunai range.



Oh shit didn't see the distance. Logically he absolutely has no feats just hype. But he should be able to stop Tayuya from activating a Genjusu.

But Oro still takes him.


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## Sadgoob (Nov 19, 2013)

asstonine said:


> The anime is more cannon than that laughable databook you keep using.
> 
> I like how you can't counter any argument though, just make retarded faces.
> 
> ...



 **


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## asstonine (Nov 19, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> **



Concession accepted.


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## Sadgoob (Nov 19, 2013)

asstonine said:


> Concession accepted.



 **


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## Lyanna (Nov 19, 2013)

@asstonine: where are your proofs in the manga that Itachi is actually 21 yrs old in part 1 and 24 in part 2? I'm interested to see your evidence. If you already posted it somewhere, can you please provide the link? Ty

Edit: And I won't accept assumptions like Itachi looks old in part 1 so he can't be 18 at that time yada yada. He's reputed as a genius/child prodigy, too mature for his age, and looks aren't that reliable in determining exact age.


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## asstonine (Nov 19, 2013)

Agassi said:


> @asstonine: where are your proofs in the manga that Itachi is actually 21 yrs old in part 1 and 24 in part 2? I'm interested to see your evidence. If you already posted it somewhere, can you please provide the link? Ty



There are tons if you go look for it.  There used to be a huge discussion over on the wikia, but it was awhile ago, and I can't find it anymore.

Anyways, the most obvious is just the artwork itself.


Was it necessary to send all four?

Was it necessary to send all four?

There is absolutely no way in hell you could possibly argue that itachi is illustrated as an 11 year old boy in either of those depictions!  It is simply not possible!


The other issues appear in inconsistencies within the story if you believe the DB age,
According to the DB he is 11 when fighting orochimaru, and he was obviously in Akatsuki at the time.  See above.
However, in the manga he doesn't leave the village until the massacre, which happened when he was AT LEAST 13 years old!  

Some die hard fanboy wankers say he joined the Akatsuki while in the village to cover for this obvious plothole, but that is beyond idiotic.  It is beyond obvious it is merely a databook error.


In another scene we see Itachi as about 8 year old boy holding baby Sasuke during the 9 tails event.
Was it necessary to send all four?

Which clearly proves that Itachi was not a 4-5 year old boy at the time.


There are a lot more errors that pop up if you believe the age in the DB as well, but I am not writing them all down.


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## Bonly (Nov 19, 2013)

Only Orochi stands any kind of chance here.


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## Lyanna (Nov 19, 2013)

asstonine said:


> There are tons if you go look for it.  There used to be a huge discussion over on the wikia, but it was awhile ago, and I can't find it anymore.
> 
> Anyways, the most obvious is just the artwork itself.
> 
> ...


 Ah, I personally think he's 13 when he joined Akatsuki. After 5 yrs. he went back to Konoha for the Sasuke encounter, which makes him 17-18 yrs old in part 1, not 21 as you were saying. 

Itachi was 4 yrs. old during the 3rd ninja war.
Minato died a year or 2 after the war during the Kyuubi invasion. (Sasuke was a new born.
Uchiha clan got massacred when Sasuke was at the age of 7-8.
Therefor, Itachi is 13-14 yrs. old when he joined Akatsuki .

So what's with the "~21 in part 1 and ~24 in part 2" then?


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## asstonine (Nov 19, 2013)

Agassi said:


> Ah, I personally think he's 13 when he joined Akatsuki. After 5 yrs. he went back to Konoha for the Sasuke encounter, which makes him 17-18 yrs old in part 1, not 21 as you were saying.
> 
> Itachi was 4 yrs. old during the 3rd ninja war.
> Minato died a year or 2 after the war during the Kyuubi invasion. (Sasuke was a new born.
> ...



Can you not read?  Are you blind?
Try again...


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## Lyanna (Nov 19, 2013)

asstonine said:


> Can you not read?  Are you blind?
> Try again...



Yeah I believe I can


asstonine said:


> The 17-18 age was only listed in the DB, which is wrong.
> 
> There is tons of evidence in the manga and anime.
> The simplest of which are mere depictions.  He is obviously a young adult, about 18!  Any fool can see that, and there is much more.  That alone should be enough to convince anyone though, anyone interested in the truth anyways.
> ...


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## asstonine (Nov 19, 2013)

So you read one line, and then rambled off a bunch of BS....

If you can look at any image of Itachi at that time and say that is a preteen, then you are blind as a bat.  Never mind the insurmountable number of plotholes the DB age causes!


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## Lyanna (Nov 19, 2013)

asstonine said:


> So you read one line, and then rambled off a bunch of BS....
> 
> If you can look at any image of Itachi at that time and say that is a preteen, then you are blind as a bat.  Never mind the insurmountable number of plotholes the DB age causes!



Ah, so I'm the one who's rambling BS here, huh? Why not take the time and read ALL your posts to see what BS means  You said in your first few posts that Itachi is 21 in part 1, but then you took it again and said that he was 13 yrs old when he joined Akatsuki, and everyone knows part 1 Itachi is 5 yrs after joining Akatsuki. I think someone needs to review his basic math lessons here. 

And I wonder who's blind here to not see the panels were it was said that Itachi is a child prodigy who is too mature for his age.  And who's narrow-minded enough to not realize that looks aren't reliable determinants of age 



> Never mind the insurmountable number of plotholes the DB age causes!



I didn't even mention the DB in my argument and previous post.  I'm not even reading the databook, ya know?

Just got what I could get from the manga


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## asstonine (Nov 19, 2013)

2 reliable sources versus the unreliable databook.
Only a complete idiot would choose one number listed in the databook!

The facts are there in black and white, and in color.  If you want to ignore them, and believe whatever you want, then that's fine, but don't try to convert others to your religion.


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## Lyanna (Nov 19, 2013)

asstonine said:


> 2 reliable sources versus the unreliable databook.
> Only a complete idiot would choose one number listed in the databook!
> 
> The facts are there in black and white, and in color.  If you want to ignore them, and believe whatever you want, then that's fine, but don't try to convert others to your religion.



Where the fuck are these "2 reliable sources"? The two links of Itachi soloing Orochimaru in AKatsuki with kunai and binding genjutsu you showed to me? And how does it establish that Itachi is already 21 yrs old in part 1 (Aside from your "Itachi looks old with dem face lines" and its impossible for a 13 yr old to do that" BS)? 

I was hoping for some plausible evidences from you to support your claim, but apparently I just wasted my time 

If you feel that you're being converted, maybe then you're finally seeing and realizing your BS posts but just refusing to acknowledge it 

Gosh, why am I even talking to a troll like you?


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## asstonine (Nov 19, 2013)

He couldn't have defeated Orochimaru while in Akatsuki when he was 11 because the massacre happened when he was 13. The page for Orochimaru already mentions that Itachi joined after the massacre.

"Itachi subsequently joined Akatsuki in order to keep an eye on the organisation "
"However, when Itachi Uchiha joined Akatsuki after conducting the Uchiha clan massacre,..."
"He decided, all on his own, to commit a crime he would never be forgiven for, left his village... and joined Akatsuki to protect his village from the inside."

The databook contains an error in Itachi's age. I can't edit it though.

Sasuke and Itachi are about 8 years apart in age.

Itachi kills his clan at 16-17. (Sasauke is 7-8.) Itachi in part 1 is about 20. (Sasuke is 12-13.) Itachi is 24 when he dies. (Sasuke is 16-17.)


After Itachi massacred the clan, Sasuke's ideals and personality changed drastically due to him suffering his clan's curse and became cold, indifferent, cruel, cynical, somewhat arrogant, unreasonable and devoted the next nine years of his life to kill Itachi. Naruto chapter 225, page 21

At age 7, Itachi graduated from the Academy at the top of his class after only one year. Naruto chapter 145, page 9

enrolled in ANBU half a year later[12] and became captain by 13. Naruto chapter 142, page 12

Oro said: So this is the Uchiha that slaughtered his own clan when Itachi joined!



That means Sasuke is 7-8 years old when the clan died, and itachi would have been 16-17.

If Itachi was 11 years old, then sasuke was 2 when they died. That is a baby! Those don't run around and talk, well not proficiently anyways.

We know Sasuke was in the academy, so we know he was 7-8 years old. We know this from other sources as well.

Also, it would mean he joined Akatsuki at least 2 years before he left the village. Which makes no sense, and is contradictory to the story.

There are many more things that don't add up as well. The whole story doesn't make sense with Itachi fighting orochimaru at 11! 


          As far as I know there is no way to specifically age Itachi within the story itself, but one can easily guesstimate based on appearances in the story, which is what kishimoto did. However, he didn't take some story elements into consideration when he made up his numbers. The best guesstimate based on the story and animation puts Itachi at about 8 years older than his younger brother, Sasuke. 

        On Naruto chapter 225, page 21 it is clearly stated that Sasuke's revenge on his brother took 9 years. We know for a fact that Sasuke is about 16 years old at this time. That means Itachi murdered the clan when Sasuke was about 16-9 = 7 years old. This makes sense, because this is when Itachi started, and graduated from the academy. This also appears to be the age represented within the story. 

        Naruto chapter 345, page 9 we see Orochimaru and Itachi have a small fight shortly after Itachi joins the Akatsuki. During part 1, it is stated that "we have not met like this in 7 years, ever since Orochimaru left". Orochimaru of course left, because he failed to get Itachi's body. Later, in part 2 Orochimaru is killed by Sasuke, and the akatsuki comment on the fact he left the organization 10 years ago. That means sasuke is about 7 when Orochimaru left, and about 16 when he killed Orochimaru. 

        According to the databook Itachi appears as 17-18 in part 1. That means he dispatched of a sanin 7 years ago at the age of 18-7 = 11. That is nearly nonsensical in itself, but there is much more. When he joins the Akatsuki Orochimaru mentions that "this is the Uchiha that killed his entire clan". Problem is we know he was in the leaf until he was at least 13 years old. 

        Another issue with Itachi's listed age is the 3rd Great Shinobi war. Kakashi was a jounin at the age of 13. If Kakashi and Itachi are 9 years apart in age, as the databook suggest, then Itachi would have only been 4 years at the end of the war. Clearly not old enough to even be aware of a war. Yet, according to the story he was incredibly distraught by it, and became an extreme pacifist because of it. Now if we increase his age by 3 years, then this becomes perfectly plausible. 

        When the kyuubi attacks and Naruto is born, you can see an image of Itachi holding and taking care of his newly born brother. You don't let a four year old baby take care of a newborn baby. 

        The final piece of evidence is the character animations and voice acting. It is easy to make a small mistake on a databook you do after the fact, but it is quite difficult to portray the age of your characters so incorrectly. As we can clearly see within the anime and manga, itachi faces off against Orochimaru as a young man of about 16-17, and no a small boy of 11. 

        Now what if Itachi did defeat Orochimaru at 11 and there was about a 8 year gap in Itachi and Sasuke's age? If Itachi was 11 years old, then Sasuke was 3 when they died. We know from the above sources this isn't possible. That means if there is an age gap of about 8 years, then it was impossible for Itachi to have beaten Orochimaru at 11. 





asstonine said:


> There are tons if you go look for it.  There used to be a huge discussion over on the wikia, but it was awhile ago, and I can't find it anymore.
> 
> Anyways, the most obvious is just the artwork itself.
> 
> ...




Facts are facts.
Your version is fanfiction.


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## Sadgoob (Nov 19, 2013)

> There is absolutely no way in hell you could possibly argue that itachi is illustrated as an 11 year old boy



He looks young enough.​


> However, in the manga he doesn't leave the village until the massacre, which happened when he was AT LEAST 13 years old!



He was in Akatsuki, communicating with Obito about the Uchiha massacre, before leaving. That's why Hiruzen said he left Akatsuki to Itachi's care alone. It was a village mission before that.​


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## Baroxio (Nov 19, 2013)

I need to rep more people so I can neg you further, asstonie.


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## asstonine (Nov 19, 2013)

Baroxio said:


> I need to rep more people so I can neg you further, asstonie.



Page of facts, and wankers post smileys and red herring fallacies... ROFL!

Don't like facts either huh?  Fanboy wankers...

Sorry bro, but facts are facts.


However, if you can show me one image from Itachi in akatsuki, non-fanfiction, where he was a preteen, then please show me and I will concede immediately.   

You can't though, because you are wrong.  The images speak for themselves, and the timeline is only plausible when you accept the fact the DB is wrong.


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## Baroxio (Nov 19, 2013)

There's no point in debating with somebody who actively engages in an Argument from Incredulity (a Logical Fallacy) as his primary reason for denying *actual evidence*, only to instead supplant random numbers from his own head to use as evidence instead.

That is asinine, asstonie. 

Still need to spread more rep to neg you though.


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## asstonine (Nov 19, 2013)

Baroxio said:


> There's no point in debating with somebody who actively engages in an Argument from Incredulity as his primary reason for denying actual evidence, only to supplant random numbers from his own head as to the information present.
> 
> That is asinine, asstonie.
> 
> Still need to spread more rep to neg you though.



However, if you can show me one image from Itachi in akatsuki, non-fanfiction, where he was a preteen, then please show me and I will concede immediately.  You can't though, because you are wrong. The images speak for themselves, and the timeline is only plausible when you accept the fact the DB is wrong.


I will take your red herring as a concession.


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## Legendary Itachi (Nov 19, 2013)

I appreciate your stubborn heart to create another dupe account for hating Itachi, now get out with your fanfiction


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## asstonine (Nov 19, 2013)

Legendary Itachi said:


> I appreciate your stubborn heart to create another dupe account for hating Itachi, now get out with your fanfiction



Look more red herrings...

No one is hating itachi, just correcting fanfiction error.


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## Bonly (Nov 19, 2013)

Legendary Itachi said:


> I appreciate your stubborn heart to create another dupe account for hating Itachi, now get out with your fanfiction



johnsuwey just loves Itachi so much that it reached a new level and it seems like he dislikes Itachi


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## Baroxio (Nov 19, 2013)

Ho Hum,

Tell me, asstonine, How old is this man:



Since it's so easy to determine age from a picture, and all, I'm sure it's pretty obvious.


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## Dr. White (Nov 19, 2013)

asstonine said:


> Look more red herrings...
> 
> No one is hating itachi, just correcting fanfiction error.



Here is a vid I made for haters a year or so ago

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVZ1jU-GtcU[/YOUTUBE]


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## asstonine (Nov 19, 2013)

Baroxio said:


> Ho Hum,
> 
> Tell me, asstonine, How old is this man:
> 
> ...



So you can't find a preteen image of Itachi wearing the Akatsuki uniform then?

Didn't think so...


Btw are you seriously trying to argue that the author of the manga can't draw kids correctly on two mediums?  Seriously?  Because that would be the most idiotic rebuttal in history!


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Nov 19, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> Oh shit didn't see the distance. Logically he absolutely has no feats just hype. But he should be able to stop Tayuya from activating a Genjusu.
> 
> But Oro still takes him.



Tayuya could break him in CS2.  

She physically broke out of the neck bind.


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## Nikushimi (Nov 19, 2013)

asstonine said:


> Only a complete idiot would choose one number listed in the databook!



The databook was written by the same guy who created the manga, so it's not really idiotic at all.



> The DB is nothing but trash they print up to make additional money!



I'm sure you have evidence to back up this claim.

(No you don't.)



asstonine said:


> The anime is more cannon than that laughable databook you keep using.



Neither of them are "canon," but the databook is a secondary examination of the canon by the author and therefore an official source. The anime is merely an adaptation of the author's work.


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## Rocky (Nov 19, 2013)

I believe canon simply means "works of an author" or something alone those lines, so the Databook would be canon. The anime would not because it isn't created by Kishimoto.


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## Nikushimi (Nov 19, 2013)

Rocky said:


> I believe canon simply means "works of an author" or something alone those lines, so the Databook would be canon. The anime would not because it isn't created by Kishimoto.



"Canon" implies that it's a part of the story/continuity, which it isn't; it's part of the meta, a supplementary appendix to the canon.


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## Sadgoob (Nov 19, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Tayuya could break him in CS2.



A 3-tomoe Sharingan user? Not likely.


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## Rocky (Nov 19, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> "Canon" implies that it's a part of the story/continuity, which it isn't; it's part of the meta, a supplementary appendix to the canon.




I went and looked up the definition, and it was "authentic works of a writer," but I believe you anyway. I don't really know where the term comes from, I learned it here.


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## Veracity (Nov 19, 2013)

Kyokan said:


> The man does it all the time.
> 
> Does Sasuke look 2-3 here? Not likely
> 
> And there's 5 year old Kakashi looking like a 15 year old. Kishimoto is bad at this and it doesn't really change the fact Itachi was 11 when he beat Orochimaru.



Oh my lord Kishi is terrible.


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## Lyanna (Nov 19, 2013)

asstonine said:


> He couldn't have defeated Orochimaru while in Akatsuki when he was 11 because the massacre happened when he was 13. The page for Orochimaru already mentions that Itachi joined after the massacre.
> 
> "Itachi subsequently joined Akatsuki in order to keep an eye on the organisation "
> "However, when Itachi Uchiha joined Akatsuki after conducting the Uchiha clan massacre,..."
> ...



Ugh. I feel like pulling my hair out in frustration and I've just face-palmed 5 times after reading this.

To reply or not to reply to a troll. That is the question. But since I'm cool right now and my patience is a bit stretched nowadays, I'll test my limits and devote some time in disproving your argument, since it seems you're serious with it 

After reading your post, I concur that it all boils down to this single thing that you thought validates your argument and differs my opinion from yours (since I technically said the same words, but there's a difference in numbers)

Your argument: Itachi was 8 yrs. old when Minato died, and Sasuke was born
My argument: Itachi was 5-6 yrs old when Minato died, and Sasuke was born

And lets be clear that:

Your goal: Disprove Itachi is 11 during Uchiha massacre, left Akatsuki and faced off Orochimaru. Prove that he is 15-16 when it happened

My goal: Disprove Itachi is 15-16 during Uchiha massacre, left Akatsuki and faced off Orochimaru. Prove that he is 13 when it happened

It seems to be the source of your assumption, so I'll focus here.



> When the kyuubi attacks and Naruto is born, you can see an image of Itachi holding and taking care of his newly born brother. You don't let a four year old baby take care of a newborn baby.



I would like to point out that real world situations doesn't always apply in the ninja world. In a world of violence, 7 yr old training to handle and throw knives/kunais/shuriken, 12 yrs. old children are soldiers and are sent to kill enemies, do you think a 5-6 yr old child prodigy of his clan/mature kid/pride of his parents who saw the horrors of war at the mere age of four while shown handling a kunai in a panel, that is baby-sitting his infant brother, a unique and dangerous sight to see? 

Then lets screw character design and anime voice actors for a while, okay? They're not reliable and its better to have the manga facts as basis here.



> The best guesstimate based on the story and animation puts Itachi at about 8 years older than his younger brother, Sasuke.



Wrong, it sin't the best guess/estimation. I'll prove why later on



> Another issue with Itachi's listed age is the 3rd Great Shinobi war. Kakashi was a jounin at the age of 13. If Kakashi and Itachi are 9 years apart in age, as the databook suggest, then Itachi would have only been 4 years at the end of the war.



correct



> Clearly not old enough to even be aware of a war. Yet, according to the story he was incredibly distraught by it, and became an extreme pacifist because of it



But he is aware of it. It completely changed his perspective and shaped his beliefs as a pacifist.



> Now if we increase his age by 3 years, then this becomes perfectly plausible.



Anything about Itachi isn't that plausible in normal humans except for exceptional prodgies (like Itachi and maybe Kakashi). Wisdom at par with a reknowned village leader, mastering a dangerous dojutsu even the older ones in your clan have difficulty in mastering, graduating the academy at the age of 7, passing the dangerous and deadly Chuunin exams at the age of 10, joining the assassination squad and being a double agent at the tender age of 13. You can't assume plausibility here using logic that only applies to normal ninjas or rather in real life.

Here's my take in Itachi's age being 5-6 when Minato died, and when Sasuke was born.

Kakashi is 13 yrs old when Obito died, Rin died, and the war finished when he was barely at the age of 14. 

In this said war, Itachi was canonly stated to be 4 yrs. old

Then during the Kyuubi invasion, we are shown with panels of Kakashi wearing the same outfit when Rin died, implying that Rin's death was just a year or two years ago. So Itachi's age during the war: 4 + 1-2 yrs of interval is equals to 5-6 yrs. old

Another thing, Kakashi is around 30-31 yrs old in current timeline. SAsuke and Naruto's age now is 16-17. 30-31 minus 16-17 is equals to 14 . And according to your post Kakashi is 9 yrs older than Itachi. Therefor, 14 (Kakashi's age when Naruto and Sasuke were born) minus 9 (the difference between Itachi and Kakashi's age) is equals to 5. Which ties to my argument that: 

My argument: Itachi was 5-6 yrs old when Minato died, and Sasuke was born 



> There are many more things that don't add up as well. The whole story doesn't make sense with Itachi fighting orochimaru at 11!



Yeah, it doesn't make sense because Itachi left Konoha and joined Akatsuki at the age of 13, not 11 nor 16 



> Itachi appears as 17-18 in part 1. That means he dispatched of a sanin *7 years ago* at the age of 18-7 = 11.



It was stated in the manga that Itachi massacred his clan 5 yrs before part 1


Hopefully, if you can now see that Itachi was indeed 5-6 yrs old when Sasuke was born (If not, IDGAF anymore ), we can now deduce from the fact:



> When Sasuke was at the age of 7-8 his clan got massacred by his big brother Itachi, who immediately left Konoha, joined Akatsuki, then soloed Orochimaru.



....that: (5-6) +(7-8)= is 12-14 or 13 -> the age when Itachi  left Konoha, joined Akatsuki, then soloed Orochimaru

....and that: 13 + 5 (years of interval between Uchiha massacre and part 1)= 18yrs. old ->which is Itachi's age in part 1

Then , 18 + 3 yrs interval between part 1 and part 2= 21 ->Itachi's age in part 2



Edit: I tried my best not to use databook stuff I've heard before  pls point out if I said anything that isn't in the manga


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Nov 19, 2013)

> He fights
> - Mizuki
> - Wave Arc Sasuke
> - Tenten
> ...



Basically anyone can take Mizuki.

Wave Arc Sasuke barely got the sharingan his brother has already mastered.  Sasuke loses.

Tenten throws a lot of thing at him, but Itachi should have at least comparable shuriken skill, plus genjutsu.  So he should be able to win.

Current Neji should beat him up.  He can negate shuriken, and KB are a waste of chakra.  He can also avoid eye contact while still fighting.  It's a stomp.

Could go either way.  We don't have enough information on Itachi.

At most, Itachi puts him in a genjutsu and can't do anything else to him, as in cannon vs the 12-13 year old Itachi.  At worst, Orochimaru gets the body he always wanted.  Anything inbetween goes to Orochimaru.

Kid Itachi matches are terrible, because there's not enough information on him, how he fights, what he could do, ect.  I personally think he's very skilled in shuriken and genjutsu, and fast for his age, because those are the things I can reasonably see a genius 8 year old use to win against adults.  Little kids are just allowed to be fast (like Haku!), and genjutsu is about precision, control, and intelligence, which he's genius at, in addition to being low cost.  He is also a genius genius, which is of great aid in a world where substituting with your clone is considered the hallmark of tactical brilliance.

I don't see an 8 year old who isn't a Jin or Uzumaki or Senju having good stamina by chunin/jonin standards, and Taijutsu isn't even something Itachi maxed out as an adult, so it stands to reason it would be a weaker point at 8.  But what he had would both be aided by bullet time and precognition, and likely focused around pulling people into occular genjutsu, as in how Shoten Itachi fought against Kakashi.  His ninjutsu is probably pretty decent, because we know he mastered the grand fireball on his first try already, so he should have some Uchiha fire jutsu in his arsenal, if nothing else.  But that also isn't his main focus, because heavy ninjutsu use, and katons in particular, are taxing.  As far as strength is concerned, he is an 8 year old bean pole, and an Uchiha.

I think that leaves Itachi room to grow over the years, because it seems silly to say he hit his prime at 8 or 13, and then stopped getting any better until he got sick, and started falling.  The other thing people should remember is that mastering your sharingan comes from being put into situations that are out of your depth, and grow stronger in response to how dead you'd be without them.  It's impressive that he has the skills at such a young age to take on dangerous missions, but if his base skills were already a super jonin, or even Asuma class at 5, then there realistically wouldn't have run into opponents or situations that could force him to advance his sharingan.  So that's how I would portray his abilities if I were writing a fanfic about 8 year old Itachi growing into his future role as King.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Nov 19, 2013)

> It was stated in the manga that Itachi massacred his clan 5 yrs before part 1
> 
> 
> Hopefully, if you can now see that Itachi was indeed 5-6 yrs old when Sasuke was born (If not, IDGAF anymore ), we can now deduce from the fact:
> ...



Itachi's mysterious P2 illness was alcoholism.  

He just couldn't say no to those sweet sweet wine coolers when came of age.



Pictured above, drunk vision.


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## Lyanna (Nov 19, 2013)

I realized I need to be on-topic so out of the list in the OP, Itachi 8 yr old can take everyone comfortably except for Orochimaru (well there's a possiblity that he can since Itachi mastered sharingan in the age of 8, but its just my opinion though)

EDIT: Forgot Neji's in the list. Imo he can beat 8yr. old  Itachi mid-high dif


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## Sadgoob (Nov 19, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> and Taijutsu isn't even something Itachi maxed out as an adult



He probably did if he had 4.5/5 hand ot hand proficiency when sick and blind. The databook also lumped in his taijutsu skill with his ninjutsu and genjutsu skill, so I'd say it was definitely tapered down along with strength and stamina because of his body.

In the second databook, it hypes Itachi as having inhuman skill in ninja fundamentals, like ninjutsu seals, so taijutsu skill is right there too. He had a 5/5 when healthy, no doubt. His handling of someone with 4.5 taijutsu, 4.5 speed, and Sharingan was pretty nifty:


​


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Nov 19, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> He probably did if he had 4.5/5 wrestling proficiency when sick, blind, etc. lol



I don't view taijutsu as a stat that, "comes down." 

Hiruzen was in the worst shape of his life, but kept his 5, and Tsunade maintained her 5 as well, even though she was a rust bucket during the Kabuto-capades.  So to me, Ninjutsu/Genjutsu/Taijutsu are areas I think you retain your skill and ability ranking in, even if you no longer have the physical capabilities to maintain prime performance in.  But it's possible the DB doesn't work like I think it does.



Strategoob said:


> A 3-tomoe Sharingan user? Not likely.



I just meant strength wise.  She's really strong and durable is CS2, and Itachi weighs about as much as a sack of potatoes with a cantaloupe on top.  Actually hitting him would prove more difficult.  But I really don't know how the fight would go for lack of information, as I said before, so I'm not going to make any calls.


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## Sadgoob (Nov 19, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> I don't view taijutsu as a stat that, "comes down."



Okay, let me ask you this: would you be less proficient at boxing if you were blind and about a week away before AIDS took you? And you're also heavily medicated to prolong your life?​


The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Hiruzen was in the worst shape of his life, but kept his 5



Eh, I tolerate the comparison. But Itachi was blind as fuck and sick as fuck. Hiruzen was 69, but still in otherwise great shape. Their handicaps were on entirely different levels IMO.​


The Pirate on Wheels said:


> and Tsunade maintained her 5 as well



Tsunade's 5/5 taijutsu and 3.5/5 speed were in DB3. She was likely worse in part one since Kabuto with 3.5/5 taijutsu and 3.5/5 speed did what he did for as long as he did.

The best example would be Kimimaro, who was about as handicapped as Itachi minus the blindness, but Kimimaro also had a kekkei genkai that instantly regenerated his body's muscles.​


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## J★J♥ (Nov 19, 2013)

Unless someone can prove that Kakashi did not knew about Itachi until his fight with him and Kisame Neji is confirmed as stronger than him in canon.


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## Sadgoob (Nov 19, 2013)

SaCrEdpOoL said:


> Unless someone can prove that Kakashi did not knew about Itachi until his fight with him and Kisame Neji is confirmed as stronger than him in canon.



Based on what? Part one Neji hype?



Who the deuce do you think Kakashi and Sasuke are thinking of here?



The little fucker that eaisly beat Orochimaru at 11, that's who.


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## Rocky (Nov 19, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> He probably did if he had 4.5/5 hand ot hand proficiency when sick and blind. The databook also lumped in his taijutsu skill with his ninjutsu and genjutsu skill, so I'd say it was definitely tapered down along with strength and stamina because of his body.[/spoiler]​




Then why didn't Itachi's speed go down? He wouldn't retain a 5/5 in speed while fatally ill if it cost him half a tier in Taijutsu.


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## Sadgoob (Nov 19, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Then why didn't Itachi's speed go down? He wouldn't retain a 5/5 in speed while fatally ill if it cost him half a tier in Taijutsu.



Because he was that much faster while healthy. 

Think of a sick Minato. A sick Minato would retain a 5/5 in speed despite being slower than a healthy Minato, because his stat would be decreasing from above the measured cap, like a 6/5.

I think there's a clear reason that the only stats Itachi is lacking in the databook all relate to physicality: stamina, strength, taijutsu. The prior databook hyped him as being a crazy outlier (6/5) ninja.



And I really like how the databook says "skills" that Orochimaru feared, not abilities. But yeah. Itachi is _the_ super genius in the manga, dammit. No friggin way he wasn't rolling a 5/5 taijutsu.​


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## J★J♥ (Nov 19, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> Based on what?



Based on Kakashis statement in Chuunin exams, He says that he cant believe that guy like this exists and while we are at it In Zabuza arc he told naruto that there are children younger than Naruto and stronger than Kakashi so yeah by hype Genin Neji is > Part I Kakashi and any child Kakashi met before neji.


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## Bonly (Nov 19, 2013)

SaCrEdpOoL said:


> Based on Kakashis statement in Chuunin exams, He says that he cant believe that guy like this exists and while we are at it In Zabuza arc he told naruto that there are *children younger than Naruto and stronger than Kakashi* so yeah by hype Genin Neji is > Part I Kakashi.



Just a heads up, Neji is older then Naruto so that statement by Kakashi wouldn't fit Neji.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Nov 19, 2013)

> Okay, let me ask you this: would you be less proficient at boxing if you were blind and about a week away before AIDS took you? And you're also heavily medicated to prolong your life?



You would be exactly as skilled as you ever were in boxing.  You just wouldn't be able to box.  Your knowledge, training, skill, and technique would still be that of whatever you were before your illness, but hindered by the illness.  If the illness were to magically go away, and his condition restored, you'd perform at your peak.

Think of it like the old champion.  He has the skill and experience of a champion, and he can teach others and pass on those skills, but he himself can't go into the ring and knock out the younger, stronger, faster opponent.  I'm sure you've seen it happen in boxing, when a less technically proficient fighter knocks out someone with superior technique, because he's gotten too old or weak, or is simply physically miss-matched.  The same is true with most Olympians.

That said, with Itachi it doesn't matter if he's 4.5.  He has pre-cog, so he can fight 5.0 people, and the 5.0 speed to move his body.  Fending off Bee's sword dance with a kunai shows that well enough.  With an immortal disease free body, he could defend against the onslaught of a 5.0 tai 5.0 speed opponent with an insane style, even if he couldn't stand his ground, or push Bee back.  Which is consistent with what I deem a .5 difference in ability.  That's more than good enough to make me think he doesn't or didn't ever need or have a 5.0 in taijutsu himself.


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## J★J♥ (Nov 19, 2013)

Bonly said:


> Just a heads up, Neji is older then Naruto so that statement by Kakashi wouldn't fit Neji.



Thats not what I meant.
Kakashi says that he cant belive that child as strong as neji can exist, but before that he says that there are children even stronger than himself. Put those two together and you have answer.
Genin Neji > Part I Kakashi and Every child kakashi met before Neji and that list includes 8 years old Itachi.


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## Sadgoob (Nov 19, 2013)

Clearly he can. He said before that people younger than 12 year old Naruto were stronger than him. A 14 year old Neji isn't part of that hype, because that shit is directed at Itachi.

Besides, most people would agree that Kakashi would fodderstomp Chūnin Exam Neji. At the end of part one, Neji would beat Wave Arc Kakashi in a taijutsu, granted. But still not in a full-on match.

At that time, Neji had a 3.5 in taijutsu and 3.0 in speed. Wave Arc Kakashi had a 4.0 in both categories, and that's Neji's specialty. SRA Neji in DB2 was rocking a 4.5 taijutsu and 4.0 speed, however. 

The reason for that huge jump, I believe, is that Hiashi began training him after his match with Naruto.​


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## Bonly (Nov 19, 2013)

SaCrEdpOoL said:


> Thats not what I meant.
> Kakashi says that he cant belive that child as strong as neji can exist, but before that he says that there are children even stronger than himself. *Put those two together and you have answer.*
> Genin Neji > Part I Kakashi and Every child kakashi met before Neji and that list includes 8 years old Itachi.



No, no you don't lol. Kakashi said "young then Naruto" which is 12 years old. Why ignore that part and just go with the "kids stronger then him" part? Also how does him saying "he cant belive that child as strong as neji can exist" hints to Neji being stronger? Seems like you're trying to make something out of nothing to hype up Neji where said hype isn't there.


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## J★J♥ (Nov 19, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> Clearly he can. He said before that people younger than 12 year old Naruto were stronger than him. A 14 year old Neji isn't part of that hype, because that shit is directed at Itachi.
> 
> Besides, most people would agree that Kakashi would fodderstomp Chūnin Exam Neji. At the end of part one, Neji would beat Wave Arc Kakashi in a taijutsu, granted. But still not in a full-on match.
> 
> At that time, Neji had a 3.5 in taijutsu and 3.0 in speed. Wave Arc Kakashi had a 4.0 in both categories, and that's Neji's specialty.​



I don't really care what you agree with someone or not I'm just telling you two facts that happened in Manga.
1)Children stronger than Kakashi
2)Kakashi cant believe that child as strong as Neji exists
Don't really care what conclusion will you get from those two, but i guess it will be that Itachi has angel wings and shits rainbows. Good luck.


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## Sadgoob (Nov 19, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Think of it like the old champion.  He has the skill and experience of a champion, and he can teach others and pass on those skills



You're misusing the term skill. What the old champion has is knowledge. His skills have dulled. Skill is a practical and mechanical application, and that dulls with age or sickness or blindness.​


The Pirate on Wheels said:


> even if he couldn't stand his ground, or push Bee back.



You think Tsunade would push Bee's sword dance back with a kunai? What about Rock Lee?​


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## Rocky (Nov 19, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> Because he was that much faster while healthy.
> 
> Think of a sick Minato. A sick Minato would retain a 5/5 in speed despite being slower than a healthy Minato, because his stat would be decreasing from above the measured cap, like a 6/5.
> 
> ...




Minato would retain a 5/5 in speed because Kishmoto isn't going to give his beloved Yellow Flash anything less than a 5 regardless of Minato's hypothetical condition.

Itachi's Taijutsu ability has never been hyped in the Manga, and anything in the Databook is limited. I think it's silly to put no-Sharingan Itachi on someone like Gai's Taijutsu tier. Actually, I think it's stupid. Though then again, Kiba is on Kakashi's speed tier....

Still, Itachi hasn't done anything to suggest 5/5 Taijutsu. He can't create Tiger air bombs, or blow up hearts with a touch, or do any of that other fancy stuff other 5/5 Taijutsu users do. Itachi's only Taijutsu techniques are normal punches and kicks; he wasn't much better than KCM Naruto in that regard.



> You think Gai could push Bee's 8-sword dance back with a kunai?




Itachi was pushed back and retreated after one panel; he did no pushing. Itachi also probably wouldn't have fared well without his precognition.

But yeah, Gai could do that. Taijutsu master says hi.


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## Sadgoob (Nov 19, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Itachi's Taijutsu ability has never been hyped in the Manga



Like Sasuke's was before having his wrist snapped and the shit beat out of him? Like Sasuke's was after beating down countless ninja before being tossed around like a doll by Itachi?

Like Kakashi's was (by Naruto) before being dodged and having his head jerked after going up close? The author can't afford to spend any more time fawning over Itachi's skills than he already does. 

Hence the DB.​


Rocky said:


> He can't create Tiger air bombs, or blow up hearts with a touch, or do any of that other fancy stuff other 5/5 Taijutsu users do.



That's strength.​


Rocky said:


> Still, Itachi hasn't done anything to suggest 5/5 Taijutsu.



Eh. I'd say his style in general is enough, but it's hard to differentiate the 0.5 gap when he's so fast with precognition. Hence the extrapolation of retaining 4.5 while severely handicapped.​


Rocky said:


> But yeah, Gai could do that. Taijutsu master says hi.



You're agreeing with POW that a taijutsu master should be defined by whether or not they can counter Bee's Eight Blade dance with a kunai? Is that what's happening here?​


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## Rocky (Nov 19, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> Like Sasuke's was before having the shit beat out of him?​




Sasuke has a 3.5/5 in Taijutsu, and I don't recall it being hyped.



> That's strength.​




Tsūtenkyaku, Hirodura, and Air Palm/64 Palms are Taijustu. Itachi has no Taijutsu techniques even close to those.



> Eh. I'd say his style in general is enough, but it's hard to differentiate the 0.5 gap when he's fast and has precognition. Hence the extrapolation of retaining 4.5 while severely, severely handicapped.​




Kung Fu alone doesn't merit 5/5 imo. He was top notch in that area yeah, but so was Kakashi, who isn't 5/5.

Like I said, Naruto fought toe to toe with Edo Itachi. Naruto isn't a 5/5 in Taijutsu.




> You're agreeing with POW that a taijutsu master should be defined by whether or not they can counter Bee's Eight Blade dance with a kunai? Is that what's happening here?




No, I misread. Gai can do what Itachi did, but he kinda dies against those 8 blades without the Gates.


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## Sadgoob (Nov 19, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Sasuke has a 3.5/5 in Taijutsu, and I don't recall it being hyped.



Sasuke's taijutsu was heavily hyped in part one. And he beat down the sound village without spilling blood. That's definitely hype relevant to taijutsu before Itachi dehyped him.​


Rocky said:


> Tsūtenkyaku, Hirodura, and Air Palm/64 Palms are Taijustu. Itachi has no Taijutsu techniques even close to those.



Tsūtenkyaku is literally just Tsunade concentrating strength into her heel. I wouldn't even call that skill. It's strength. Hachimon and the Hyūga bloodline are skills. I see where you're coming from.​


Rocky said:


> Kung Fu alone doesn't merit 5/5 imo. He was top notch in that area yeah, but so was Kakashi, who isn't 5/5.



Yeah, then we can agree. I don't think an ultimate jutsu is needed for the 5.0 though. I think Kakashi and sick Itachi were just slightly imperfect in boxing and grappling proficiency.​


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Nov 19, 2013)

> You're agreeing with POW that a taijutsu master should be defined by whether or not they can counter Bee's Eight Blade dance with a kunai? Is that what's happening here?



I never stated this.

Don't put words in my mouth.  

Not even your pretty ones.


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## Rocky (Nov 19, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> Sasuke's taijutsu was heavily hyped in part one. And he beat down the sound village without spilling blood. That's definitely hype relevant to taijutsu before Itachi dehyped him.​




Fair enough, but that 3,5 kind of suggests Taijutsu wasn't Sauce's thing.




> Tsūtenkyaku is literally just Tsunade concentrating strength into her heel. I wouldn't even call that skill. It's strength. Hachimon and the Hyūga bloodline are skills. I see where you're coming from.​




That heel drop is . Taijutsu are body techniques, not just their kung fu skill.

The Gates are most definitely not a bloodline ability, and bloodline Jutsu aren't excluded from the category in which they are classified in (I think).



> Yeah, then we can agree. I don't think an ultimate jutsu is needed for the 5.0 though. I think Kakashi and sick Itachi were just slightly imperfect in boxing and grappling proficiency.​




And Edo Itachi and KCM Naruto are perfect? I don't know about that. Tsuande's and Hiashi's techniques aren't ultimate, and even someone like Sage Naruto would ruin Itachi's day in Taijutsu skill with those ghost blows. Striking and grappling only gets one so far in a Manga where mini nukes are considered Taijutsu. There's much more to the category.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Nov 19, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> You're misusing the term skill. What the old champion has is knowledge. His skills have dulled. Skill is a practical and mechanical application, and that dulls with age or sickness or blindness.​[/indent]



He can access his skill as far as his physical ability will allow him.  

If I break my hand, I can't play a video game until it heals.  I don't think it's right to say I have no skill in video games, because I've logged ten thousand hours mastering them.  I simply don't have the ability to play them at the moment, or that capabilities to play them how I should.  The time I spend not playing might dull my skills, and I might have to refine or tune them when I'm healed.  But I haven't lost all my from the moment of damage.  Otherwise I would have to start as a beginner when the cast comes off, and work my way, at the same pace, all the way back to my original level.  

It's like how Shoten Itachi can't use Tsukiyomi, because he doesn't have the chakra to activate an MS jutsu.  But that doesn't mean Itachi has no skill in MS or MS jutsu, or we should start docking him tiers in ninjutsu and genjutsu.  Not when the jutsu is explicitly stated to transfer all of their skills and abilities.


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## Sadgoob (Nov 19, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> He can access his skill as far as his physical ability will allow him.
> 
> If I break my hand, I can't play a video game until it heals.  I don't think it's right to say I have no skill in video games, because I've logged ten thousand hours mastering them.



While your hand is broken, you have no skill. If you were playing something competitive, and you kept playing with a broken hand, your skill rating would plummet. What you retain is knowledge.

This is probably true for anything the word skill can be applied to. Is the pianist that lost a hand less skilled than he was before? Absolutely. Is the sharpshooter that was blinded less skilled? Yep.​


The Pirate on Wheels said:


> It's like how Shoten Itachi can't use Tsukiyomi, because he doesn't have the chakra to activate an MS jutsu.  But that doesn't mean Itachi has no skill in MS or MS jutsu, or we should start docking him tiers in ninjutsu and genjutsu.  Not when the jutsu is explicitly stated to transfer all of their skills and abilities.



The incarnation of Itachi did not have Tsukuyomi as a skill. The incarnation was therefore less skilled. It did, however, possess knowledge on how to perform the jutsu. But it couldn't.

I guess what we're dancing around is definitions. Knowledge is knowing how. Skill is doing.​


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Nov 19, 2013)

I define 5.0 by having total mastery of your style, and being able to create new styles.

Tsunade has her smashy style and byako varient, and she also has the evasion stuff she taught Sakura.  She arguably also has Senju clan style, whatever that is.  That's mastery.

Guy knows all kinds of kung fu styles, and has great skill in all kinds of weapons and their styles.  He also developed the ability to fight and read opponents by only looking at their feet.  That's master level stuff.

Bee has his seven sword style, and ninja wrestling, as well as his jin tranformation and tentacle stuff. 

Compare this to Kakashi, Asuma, and Itachi, who are clearly awesome at the one style of taijutsu they use, but didn't create the style, or invent anything new or add to it.  They can still teach you a lot, and do a lot, and fight pretty much anyone with their 4.5, but that's very limited compared to what the people with a 5.0 do.  As far as I can tell with Itachi, he learned and got really good at Uchiha clan taijutsu, but the Uchiha aren't famed for their taijutsu, even if they are supposed to be generally superior all around.  4.5 is generally superior all around, without it being their crowning achievement, like the Hyuuga clans.

Hiruzen I left out because we only ever saw him use a stick, but he supposedly learned every jutsu in Konoha, and I guess that would include taijutsu.  I don't know who else is 5.0.  Maybe Hiashi, but he's the master of the strongest style of taijutsu in Konoha, so duh.


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## Sadgoob (Nov 19, 2013)

Now I'm sad. I saw Koyokan in the active users viewing this thread bar. I refreshed the page, saw my own post, and thought it was him because I just stole his set. Then I was all let down because it was only me, Strategoob. Sad.

*edit:* ninja'd by a pirate. I can agree with that though, Pirate, Rocky. You guys have similar views. When I was arguing 5.0 skill, I simply meant that he could move as skillfully as Gai (with no Sharingan.) That isn't beating Gai, granted, because Gai has a 5.0 in complementary areas such as strength too. But having high level taijtusu techniques like Hachimon could make the difference. Fair.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Nov 19, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> While your hand is broken, you have no skill. If you were playing something competitive, and you kept playing with a broken hand, your skill rating would plummet. What you retain is knowledge.
> 
> This is probably true for anything the word skill can be applied to. Is the pianist that lost a hand less skilled than he was before? Absolutely. Is the sharpshooter that was blinded less skilled? Yep.​
> 
> ...



I don't agree.

You can do things you have no skill in.

I can swing a sword without having any skill with swords.  In this case, it's fair to say I suck with swords.

Conversely, I can have a great deal of skill with swords, without actually having a sword.  In this case, it's unfair to say I suck with swords.


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## Sadgoob (Nov 19, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> I don't agree.
> 
> You can do things you have no skill in.



Skill defines how well you do them.​


The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Conversely, I can have a great deal of skill with swords, without actually having a sword.  In this case, it's unfair to say I suck with swords.



You're drifting from the core topic of "skill in physical activities declines when you're physically handicapped." The situation with the sword is lacking a tool to even compete. It's not the same thing as being debilitated when in competition.​


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Nov 19, 2013)

> I refreshed the page, saw my own post, and thought it was him because I just stole his set. Then I was all let down because it was only me, Strategoob.



Hah hah Strategoob!  Your expectations and the identical sets lead you to believe that it was Kyokan whom you were about to read.  But instead it was I, Strategos!  Who was posting in this thread.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Nov 19, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> Skill defines how well you do them.​
> 
> 
> You're drifting from the core topic of "skill in physical activities declines when you're physically handicapped." The situation with the sword is lacking a tool to even compete.​



I consider your body your tool and weapon in the martial arts.  Just like your abilities can be hampered by a dull or weak weapon that can't keep up with your level of skill, you can have a body that's too weak or broken to keep up with your skills as well.


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## asstonine (Nov 19, 2013)

SaCrEdpOoL said:


> I don't really care what you agree with someone or not I'm just telling you two facts that happened in Manga.
> 1)Children stronger than Kakashi
> 2)Kakashi cant believe that child as strong as Neji exists
> Don't really care what conclusion will you get from those two, but i guess it will be that Itachi has angel wings and shits rainbows. Good luck.



He doesn't care about facts, or the manga in general.
He reads the obviously flawed Databook, and then makes up his very own version of the story.


----------



## asstonine (Nov 19, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> The databook was written by the same guy who created the manga, so it's not really idiotic at all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The author is more involved with the anime, than the DB.  The DB is nothing more than random #s thrown on a page by interns, and the author slaps his name on it.

The best databook in existence goes with the series Fairy tail, because they include a last category that is obviously a joke.  Cleavage size, Rocking level, etc...

That is a true representation of what Databooks are, filler to earn additional money.



Kyokan said:


> The man does it all the time.
> 
> Does Sasuke look 2-3 here? *
> Simply using KCM puts a constant drain on that modes chakra supply.*
> ...



Because he isn't 2-3 in that picture...duh!
*
Simply using KCM puts a constant drain on that modes chakra supply.*


Show me one image where the age of the character is way off!  
Rhetorical question, you can't do it!


----------



## Ghost (Nov 19, 2013)

Itachi joins Akatsuki after the massacre at the age of 13. Part 1 starts and Itachi is 17. Oro had left the Akatsuki before the start of the series. Itachi defeated Oro when he was 13-16. Most likely 16 or 15. If Itachi had defeated Oro immediately after joining Akatsuki how the hell he would've gotten so much info on Orochimaru? They weren't partners or worked together. Itachi must've spied on Orochimaru.


----------



## Blaze Release (Nov 19, 2013)

Damn some of the posts in this thread is embarrassing. This is to do with Itachi's age.

Its well received that Diedara became an akatsuki member at the age of 9. This was due to orochimaru's defeat by the hands of Itachi. There is a 2 year age gap between the 2. Therefore if Deidara joined at age 9, Itachi would have been 11 as Deidara died aged 19 and Itachi 21.

Cannot be asked to check but in part 2 It was stated that its been 10 years since oro left. This seems true as in part 2 deidara is 19, so obviously 19-10 = 9 and itachi's case, 21 -10 = 11.

I think majority use looks to which makes no sense. Judging an anime characters age based on looks is one of the funny things i have heard, its a no, no. 

Another major thing that people use is the fact that he became an anbu leader at 13, therefore he could not be an akatsuki members. People confuse the age in which he was initiated into anbu with the age in which he became the leader. The manga already establishes that he was roughly 10-11, when he joined anbu, a couple of years later became leader.

Its also very possible for itachi to be in akatsuki at 11. To be a member doesn't mean to be an active member as if i remember correctly jiraiya said in part 1 that, the akatsuki have started to become more active, meaning before the were dormant. Itachi's knowing the sensing barrier not to trigger it if he leaves or enters the village and the fact that the elders also knew about him, its highly possible for him to have been a member whilst still a living in konoha before the massacre.

As for the thread, where did people get the idea that itachi could use the kage bunshin at 8. If they are referring  to the trick he did to sasuke, it was the ordinary bunshin.

Anyway 8 year old itachi stops at neji imo.


EDIT: Im not even sure what needs to be discussed here. When itachi showed up in the beginnng of part 1 he was 17. At the end of part 1 he was 18.
At the same time, at the end of part 1 did he finally get to see akatsuki and one of the members, i think sasori said orochimaru left 7 years ago or something like that. We know from orochomaru himself, stated he left the organsation after his defeat by the hands of itachi and that he is stronger than him.

So we do not even need to do any complicated calculation here.
18 - 7?


----------



## Sadgoob (Nov 19, 2013)

Blaze Release said:


> As for the thread, where did people get the idea that itachi could use the kage bunshin at 8. If they are referring  to the trick he did to sasuke, it was the ordinary bunshin.



It wouldn't make sense for Fugaku to be impressed by an ordinary bunshin, as Itachi had to be able to do that a year earlier to graduate the academy. Also, because it's not impressive to someone that expected an 8 year old Sasuke to use beyond-Genin jutsu just to keep up with Itachi's pace.


----------



## Garcher (Nov 19, 2013)

Itachi solos

Orochimaru gets one panelled: We know Itachi already fully mastered his sharingan, so it will be the same scenario like when Itachi was 13


----------



## Rosencrantz (Nov 19, 2013)

Lock this up. 8 year old Itachi is featless. Mastered the sharingan? Does that mean 2 tomoe or 3 tomoe? How was his genjutsu skill? How fast? What jutsu he know?

We know nothing. He would be Mizuki, Wave Arc Sasuke, and MAYBE Tenten but other than that no one. The rest babyshake.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 19, 2013)

well, he was top tier in the academy and had sharingan mastery (that probably includes sharingan genjutsu with 3 tomoe sharingan).

We can scale him to probably above VOTE Sasuke(minus CS with similar stats give or take), so he should be able to plow through the ranks of the gauntlet pretty convincingly till he reaches Orochimaru. Where he loses due to level gap. Probably he doesn't have enough stamina, speed taijutsu or ninjutsu skill to take him on. I also think his genjutsu stats would be inferior so Oro might be able to escape from his genjutsu.



Strategoob said:


> It wouldn't make sense for Fugaku to be impressed by an ordinary bunshin, as Itachi had to be able to do that a year earlier to graduate the academy. Also, because it's not impressive to someone that expected an 8 year old Sasuke to use beyond-Genin jutsu just to keep up with Itachi's pace.



It was a regular bunshin. Those were the times when Itachi was still studying @ the academy and bunshin jutsu is something you have to master to graduate(so it is kind of a big deal for an academy student).
So his father was probably surprised Itachi was able to use bunshins prior to graduation. Especially when you consider Itachi graduated within one year, where it takes longer for others to do so.


----------



## asstonine (Nov 19, 2013)

Itachi the Best said:


> Itachi solos
> 
> Orochimaru gets one panelled: We know Itachi already fully mastered his sharingan, so it will be the same scenario like when Itachi was 13



its called context kiddo!  That was said by his 7 year old little brother.

I am seriously  questioning whether  or not some people  here can read beyond  a grade school  level !



Grimmjowsensei said:


> well, he was top tier in the academy and had sharingan mastery (that probably includes sharingan genjutsu with 3 tomoe sharingan).
> 
> We can scale him to probably above VOTE Sasuke(minus CS with similar stats give or take), so he should be able to plow through the ranks of the gauntlet pretty convincingly till he reaches Orochimaru. Where he loses due to level gap. Probably he doesn't have enough stamina, speed taijutsu or ninjutsu skill to take him on. I also think his genjutsu stats would be inferior so Oro might be able to escape from his genjutsu.


Again, fan fiction!   

Please describe the situation in which oro loses...
total bs


----------



## Rosencrantz (Nov 19, 2013)

Itachi was 13 when he fought Orochimaru. Not a hard concept to get. Itachi joined ANBU at 13 and left Konoha to join Akatsuki after the massacre when he was 13.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 19, 2013)

Rosencrantz said:


> Itachi was 13 when he fought Orochimaru. Not a hard concept to get. Itachi joined ANBU at 13 and left Konoha to join Akatsuki after the massacre when he was 13.




Actually, going by Oro's and members of Akatsuki's definition, Itachi was 11 when he fought Orochimaru.

Later on that was contradicted in Tobi's story, that Itachi actually joined Akatsuki after the clans massacre, which makes him 13 when he joined. So he couldn't be any younger than 13 when he fought Orochimaru.

The only explanation that would cause a mutual agreement for both statements, is that Itachi was already doing stuff for Akatsuki like Sasuke did for a while, unofficially. That could explain the akatsuki cloak.
But we weren't given any details on that, so it is probably a fuck up of timeline(which itself isn't very solid) by Kishi.


----------



## asstonine (Nov 19, 2013)

Blaze Release said:


> Damn some of the posts in this thread is embarrassing. This is to do with Itachi's age.
> 
> Its well received that Diedara became an akatsuki member at the age of 9. This was due to orochimaru's defeat by the hands of Itachi. There is a 2 year age gap between the 2. Therefore if Deidara joined at age 9, Itachi would have been 11 as Deidara died aged 19 and Itachi 21.
> 
> ...


what is  embarrassing is your reading comprehension....Maybe if you actually read the FACTS I POSTED then you would clearly understand the listed age of 17 is a solely a databook error.  The other RELIABLE mediums portray him as being much older, and that portrayed age isn't a plothole to boot!


----------



## asstonine (Nov 19, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Actually, going by Oro's and members of Akatsuki's definition, Itachi was 11 when he fought Orochimaru.
> 
> Later on that was contradicted in Tobi's story, that Itachi actually joined Akatsuki after the clans massacre, which makes him 13 when he joined. So he couldn't be any younger than 13 when he fought Orochimaru.
> 
> ...



The timeline works PERFECT, if you assume the DB age is wrong,  Again, 2 other reliable mediums say  it is, and when coupled with the story, then it proves it is an obvious error.


----------



## kaminogan (Nov 19, 2013)

i can see neji beating him, what with kaitens anti kunai defence,

it would be interesting to see a taijutsu fight between the two thou,


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 19, 2013)

asstonine said:


> The timeline works PERFECT, if you assume the DB age is wrong,  Again, 2 other reliable mediums say  it is, and when coupled with the story, then it proves it is an obvious error.



Its kinda retarded when you think about it.

DB 3 came after the revelations about Itachi, so they could have corrected Itachi's age in the DB or gave a different explanation.


But as far as I know, If we ignore the DB age, then there is no way to confirm Itachi's age, except for a few certain moments in the manga.


----------



## asstonine (Nov 19, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Its kinda retarded when you think about it.
> 
> DB 3 came after the revelations about Itachi, so they could have corrected Itachi's age in the DB or gave a different explanation.
> 
> ...



You are correct as far as I know, outside the DB there is noway to know Itachi's age.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 19, 2013)

asstonine said:


> You are correct as far as I know, outside the DB there is noway to know Itachi's age.



We only know that he graduated the academy @ 7, mastered sharingan @ 8 and became a chuunin @ 10 : Roy Mustang vs. Monster Envy
Joined anbu somewhere around Sasuke's earlier academy years : Roy Mustang vs. Monster Envy

and became an anbu captain @ 13 : Roy Mustang vs. Monster Envy

So there is no way to know when he activated mangekyou or when he massacred the clan.


edit : Actually I think he activated MS somewhere around the end of Sasuke's 1st year in academy. Roy Mustang vs. Monster Envy
If that is Sasuke's school report on the ground.

and he joined the anbu before that : Roy Mustang vs. Monster Envy Around the time Sasuke joined the academy.

So Itachi must be younger than 13 when Shisui died(considering that he was made captain after that incident).


----------



## Dr. White (Nov 19, 2013)

He activated MS a short time before slaying the clan.

He beat Oro a short time after slaying Oro.

Timeline places him between 12-14 years old. Call it even at 13.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 19, 2013)

Dr. White said:


> He activated MS a short time before slaying the clan.
> 
> He beat Oro a short time after slaying Oro.
> 
> Timeline places him between 12-14 years old. Call it even at 13.



But we don't know what his age was when he slayed the clan no ?


----------



## Dr. White (Nov 19, 2013)

I believe Sauce was mentioned to be anywhere from 5-7 can't remember the panel. But yeah if you get the right panels you can figure it out since you have Sauce's/Itachi's age, and the years before the storyline that the massacre happened.


----------



## Trojan (Nov 19, 2013)

Tayuya stomps! Even 21 years old itachi as edo lost against her.

I don't know why I can't take those itachi's threads even as a joke, maybe because
they are repetitive, or because I think his fans do believe in what they say actually?


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 19, 2013)

Roy Mustang vs. Monster Envy

Says 3rd Ninja war happened around 10 years ago. 13 years ago it was the Kyuubi incident. 
We know that Kyuubi incident happened after the 3rd Ninja war.

So 3rd Ninja war can't be sooner than 13 years. But says *around* 10 years so I wouldn't expect it to be older than say 18 years(otherwise it'd say "around 20 years ago). 
Itachi was barely 4 years old during the 3rd Ninja war : Roy Mustang vs. Monster Envy

So it means Itachi was 4 years old somewhere between 13-18 years ago.

If he was 4, 13 years ago, then he is 17 in part 1. Makes him 12 during the Uchiha massacre.
If he was 4, 18 years ago, then he is 22 in part 1. Makes him 17 during the Uchiha massacre. But then if he was 4 17 years ago then he'd be 9 during the Kyuubi incident. For someone who had sharingan mastery @ 8, it wouldn't make sense to just sit @ home and baby sit Sasuke Roy Mustang vs. Monster Envy

And he looks like 5 - 7 in that flashback, closer to this : Roy Mustang vs. Monster Envy, his 7 year old self.

If we assume Itachi was 7 during the Kyuubi incident, then he was 20 in part 1, 15 during Uchiha massacre.

In short, Itachi was around 12 - 15 during Uchiha massacre.


----------



## Trojan (Nov 19, 2013)

^

According to Viz it's *more* than 10 years.


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## Dr. White (Nov 19, 2013)

Youre first summary seems correct. Itachi was stated(in the DB) to be 17 in pt. 1. Making him 4-5 years older than pt. 1 Sasuke.

people like Kakashi/Gai/ asuma, etc weren't allowed to fight, so Itachi would have done little and knew Minato would do work.

Itachi would have been much better off guarding Sauce and looking after the Uchiha estate


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## Blaze Release (Nov 19, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> It wouldn't make sense for Fugaku to be impressed by an ordinary bunshin, as Itachi had to be able to do that a year earlier to graduate the academy. Also, because it's not impressive to someone that expected an 8 year old Sasuke to use beyond-Genin jutsu just to keep up with Itachi's pace.



Nope it was the regular Bunshin.



asstonine said:


> what is  embarrassing is your reading comprehension....Maybe if you actually read the FACTS I POSTED then you would clearly understand the listed age of 17 is a solely a databook error.  The other RELIABLE mediums portray him as being much older, and that portrayed age isn't a plothole to boot!



Unlike Strat i will not go too much into this.

You claim the age in the DB of 17 that was given to him in part 1 is wrong, yet it fits perfectly because after the time skip, he is at age 21. If the second DB was wrong and gave him the age of 17 and 18 at the end of part 1, i would have thought they would have rectified it with the 3rd DB which was published after itachi's death and the age which is lists is 21.. Yet they continued misleading us?.

Not that at the start of part 1 sasuke was 12. By the end 13.
Itachi, 17, end 18. There has always been roughly 5 years between the two.

If Itachi is 21 is part 1 that should make Sasuke 16. And 24 in part 2 should make Sasuke 19.

I get that it might be hard to understand itachi being in akatsuki while still a konoha shinobi, but it is possible with the help of the elders and his own stealth skill. As for guess an anime character age i don't even bother. Im not a massive fan of bleach but i believe there are a few people who are over 100+ years and do not exactly look it, but at the same time we have seen in hunter x hunter and other anime's of anime characters stayin in their youth and when needed transform into their current age. Excluding all that, image and size is one of things that are inconsistent in the manga, therefore i do not really get into an image/size argument.

Anyway until i a hard copy or rather facts, i think ill stick to the DB and my calculations from the manga as they seem to fit rather clearly.


----------



## Rosencrantz (Nov 19, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Actually, going by Oro's and members of Akatsuki's definition, Itachi was 11 when he fought Orochimaru.
> 
> Later on that was contradicted in Tobi's story, that Itachi actually joined Akatsuki after the clans massacre, which makes him 13 when he joined. So he couldn't be any younger than 13 when he fought Orochimaru.
> 
> ...



Sasuke's was so on point when he specifically tells us how old Itachi was when he did all of his promotions and accomplishments and stuff. That's why I like going by that. It is extremely specific. When people make vague estimations likes man it was 10 years ago I always think of it like this. If I say damn I haven't had that that kind of food in 5 years when in actuality it was 6 years and three months. Someone can say something and it does not have to be EXACTLY that time but roughly that time. 

Deidara saying, "Been about 10 years since Orochimaru left, eh?"
"Actually it has been 8 years and 6 months if we want to be exact," replies Zetsu.

Same damn thing basically. Rounding/estimation. Of course it could just be a fuck up on Kishi's part cause I feel like Itachi infiltrating Akatsuki would have been mentioned at least at some point and is directly contradicted by Tobi.


----------



## asstonine (Nov 20, 2013)

Blaze Release said:


> Nope it was the regular Bunshin.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They don't fit at all.  The whole story has to be twisted to the point it doesn't even make sense anymore!  It is clear from the story that he joined the Akatsuki AFTER he killed his clan, not before.  He didn't kill his clan until he was AT LEAST 13, but he was obviously much older than even that.  So it is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE that he was in Akatsuki at 11, and impossible that he fought Oro at 11.  

Sorry, but that is a cold hard fact backed up by 2 reliable sources!

You use the example of Bleach to debunk age of characters?  That is pathetic...   It is clearly written in the story that people age different in soul society!  The author of this series has shown exceptional skill in drawing his characters.  I have asked this before, and got no replies, but show me ONE, just one, example of a character that does not appear to be the correct age.  It is absolutely crazy to suggest a person adept at drawing 12 year old kids, the whole first season, fails to illustrate Itachi as 11 years old.  It's fucking crazy!


The DB isn't updated, because they don't care!  It is supplementary material they use to make money on, sort of like the filler in the anime.  Probably even less so...



Rosencrantz said:


> Sasuke's was so on point when he specifically tells us how old Itachi was when he did all of his promotions and accomplishments and stuff. That's why I like going by that. It is extremely specific. When people make vague estimations likes man it was 10 years ago I always think of it like this. If I say damn I haven't had that that kind of food in 5 years when in actuality it was 6 years and three months. Someone can say something and it does not have to be EXACTLY that time but roughly that time.
> 
> Deidara saying, "Been about 10 years since Orochimaru left, eh?"
> "Actually it has been 8 years and 6 months if we want to be exact," replies Zetsu.
> ...


You are at least close.  All we know for certain is he was at least 13! 
However, it is clear from the artwork that he is a few years older than that, likely 15-16.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 20, 2013)

Elia said:


> ^
> 
> According to Viz it's *more* than 10 years.




It is more or less the same thing basically.

If the number was close to 20, like 18-19-20, then it would obviously say something 20ish.

So actually, 14-15 seem about right, especially when you consider the events after Obito's "death". He spent some time with Madara, his hair grew and all. But I wouldn't expect that time to be more than 2 years. 1, 1.5 years seem more precise.

So Itachi could be 4 14-14.5 years ago. That'd make him around 18 in part 1, 13 during the massacre.




Dr. White said:


> people like Kakashi/Gai/ asuma, etc weren't allowed to fight, so Itachi would have done little and knew Minato would do work.
> 
> Itachi would have been much better off guarding Sauce and looking after the Uchiha estate



Thats true, but he didn't have ninja head gear as well, which you get after graduating from the academy. So one thing is for sure it was prior to Itachi's graduation. 
So again, that'd place him between the ages of 5 and 7. 
He graduated @ 7, so he was either 5 or 6.
He can't be 4 because I believe there is at least a year between the 3rd ninja war and the Kyuubi incident, taking Obito's "growth" into account.


----------



## Blaze Release (Nov 20, 2013)

asstonine said:


> They don't fit at all.  The whole story has to be twisted to the point it doesn't even make sense anymore!  It is clear from the story that he joined the Akatsuki AFTER he killed his clan, not before.  He didn't kill his clan until he was AT LEAST 13, but he was obviously much older than even that.  So it is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE that he was in Akatsuki at 11, and impossible that he fought Oro at 11.



To be a member doesn't mean to be an active member when the akatsuki were not activate until later on. Its true he killed the clan roughly at the age of 13, but that doesn't mean he could not have been a double agent before the massacre. He did strike the deal with obito before the massacre and that could be used as a form of agreement/initiation. Think when member hear member they automatically think, the memer was active and chasing down bijuu's. You can be a member, however if nothing is happening you are dormant while still having ties to the organisation 



asstonine said:


> Sorry, but that is a cold hard fact backed up by 2 reliable sources!



Your two main sources from what i am reading is the anime and your own initiative.
Two even use the anime as a source says you really have no reliable source. The anime is notorious for adding non cannon scenes or non canon techniques and i haven't even mentioned fillers.

The scene where Itachi was in an anbu uniform and met up with akatsuki after killing the clan isn't in the manga. While i have not watched the anime for some time, i decided to watch the kabuto/itachi/sasuke fight. Itachi sacrificed his tsukuyomi eye for izanami and used the heightened form of the 3 tomoe sharingan hypnosis through the application of the ms to take control of kabuto, its this very genjutsu that is used to control bijuu's. In the anime itachi uses tsukuyomi on kabuto which is false.

And your initiative makes no sense when you say Itachi was 21 in part 1 and 24 in part 2. Apart from the DB being a much more reliable source than both your anime and initiative combined as its from kishi, the whole math makes no sense as you are either suggesting that, the age gap between sasuke and Itachi is actually 8 or Sasuke is 19 at the time of Itachi's death. Obviously there has been many disputes on time lines and i agree certain sometimes makes no sense, but i do not or rather i haven't been put in a situation to doubt the age that itachi was at the time of his death, 21.



asstonine said:


> You use the example of Bleach to debunk age of characters?  That is pathetic...   It is clearly written in the story that people age different in soul society!  The author of this series has shown exceptional skill in drawing his characters.  I have asked this before, and got no replies, but show me ONE, just one, example of a character that does not appear to be the correct age.  It is absolutely crazy to suggest a person adept at drawing 12 year old kids, the whole first season, fails to illustrate Itachi as 11 years old.  It's fucking crazy!




Nope i am using bleach and other anime to debunk this bogus argument which is trying to estimate an anime characters age based on appearance, there are many questions where the anime character has either done something to themselves and retain their youthful self and when needed transform into their current state. Even in naruto we can use Tsunade as an example. But also like bleach where the characters are much older than what they look.

Appearance or size are never consistent in an anime for many reasons. Another example of appearance fail is edo tensei shinobi's who in one scan their cracks on their faces are visible and in the next page it isn't. These are all examples and i don't even want to get in about size inconsistency. But ill use your guess an anime character age from looks agains't you. People question itachi's appearance and size. Even if we ignore all of what i have said, itachi looks very young standing next to orochimaru. As for height, orochimaru has never been tall. But also people neglect the fact that Itachi is standing two stairs higher than orochimarui giving the illusion of height.

Itachi here at the time in which he overcame Orochimaru looks very young

*Spoiler*: __ 







Sasuke in part 2 is apparently 16, yet Sasuke looks very mature for a 16 year old, but also if we were to compare the itachi above and part 2 sasuke based on looks alone, Itachi is either much much younger than Sasuke, or Sasuke is much older than 16 based on appearance.

Which brings me onto something else. It appears Kishi has trouble when it comes to drawing how a character looks like for their age, along with drawing errors.

"For Kishimoto, Sasuke remains the most difficult character for him to draw. While drawing, errors and mishaps commonly result in Sasuke's youthful appearance being lost, a result of Kishimoto's inexperience in drawing characters mature beyond their years."

Creation and conception Title. 


Even if we put that all that aside we can say itachi's appearance which apparently makes him look older can put down as stress, something he suffered alot and one of the downsides to stress is looking older than what you are. In fact the two lines on his face can also be put down to stress. Which brings me to another thing, itachi on one part on the page doesn't have the marks on his face, on the same page put another part of it, he does have the marks.
multi clones.

Guess a characters age based on looks is bogus logic!





asstonine said:


> The DB isn't updated, because they don't care!  It is supplementary material they use to make money on, sort of like the filler in the anime.  Probably even less so...



DB was updated from the second to the 3rd and his age was still consistent with the story line.
EDIT: Anyway im done here. This was off topic


----------



## Laozy (Nov 20, 2013)

All get raped, Ooro then shuts his ass down in a few seconds.


----------



## Risyth (Nov 20, 2013)

> - Neji
> - Tayuya
> - Shikamaru



Sorry, but I don't understand the reason for this ordering at all.


----------



## Etherborn (Nov 20, 2013)

He stops at Tayuya.


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## asstonine (Nov 27, 2013)

Blaze Release said:


> Nope it was the regular Bunshin.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's silly, because the age is wrong in part one it can't be wrong in part 2 as well.  The most logical thing to do when printing out these databooks was to simply add 3 years!  These ages weren't thought about in the least, and merely slapped on the page, just like all the other figures in these books.  These are not reliable sources!

It really is stupid that the wanking is so bad people not only believe this error, but believe that an 8 year old genin (chunin at best), beats these jounin+ fighters....  It is so stupid its laughable!


----------



## ChaddyMan1 (Nov 27, 2013)

Kyokan said:


> ​*Location*: Alliance vs. Madara
> *Distance*: 5m
> *Knowledge*: Full for Itachi, none for his opponents.
> *Mindset*: In-character
> ...



Can you please add 5th Gate Rock Lee ? 
Or at least drunken Lee?


----------



## Sadgoob (Nov 27, 2013)

Drunken Rock Lee could beat Itachi's ass in straight taijutsu, but with a mastered Sharingan, he can evade long enough to use genjutsu would shut him down.​


----------



## ChaddyMan1 (Nov 27, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> Drunken Rock Lee could beat Itachi's ass in straight taijutsu, but with a mastered Sharingan, he can evade long enough to use genjutsu would shut him down.​



What about Lee when he opens the Gates? Like what if Lee stayed in the 3rd Gate as to avoid the ripping and tearing of muscles?


----------



## Risyth (Nov 27, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> Drunken Rock Lee could beat Itachi's ass in straight taijutsu, but with a mastered Sharingan, he can evade long enough to use genjutsu would shut him down.​



Is Itachi that fast?


----------



## Sadgoob (Nov 27, 2013)

ChaddyMan1 said:


> What about Lee when he opens the Gates? Like what if Lee stayed in the 3rd Gate as to avoid the ripping and tearing of muscles?





Risyth said:


> Is Itachi that fast?



Yeah, it's kind of hard to tell. I'd assume that if Itachi had mastered the 3-tomoe, then he'd be _at least_ as rounded as Sasuke was when Sasuke first awoke the 3-tomoe.

Part of this has to do with the fundamental thing that holds young shinobi back: chakra control. They can't water-walk, so they can't enhance their speed skillfully by charing their system with chakra.

These mechanics are outlined in the databook for shunshin and said in the manga in the Wave and Chūnin Arc. If Itachi mastered the 3-tomoe, that includes casting genjutsu, which is chakra control.

Therefore, I'd say Lee would need more than 3 Gates to overwhelm Itachi. 5 Gates was enough to overwhelm Neji though, so that'd probably work provided Lee doesn't fall for genjutsu.​


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## Epyon (Nov 30, 2013)

Okay first things first. Kishimoto changed his mind. We have been given recent flashbacks to Itachi was assigned the missions to murder his family and infiltrate to the Akatsuki, nowhere is it evident that Itachi has been an Akatsuki for two years. And yeah, they said Orochimaru left them 10 years ago in part 2. so what? They said Orochimaru left the village 10 years ago because he was passed over for Hokage even though by that ti,me the Fourth as dead already. Kakashi Gaiden took place about 10 years ago too. They were rounding up/down. Kakashi said he became a Chuunin when he was half Naruto's age, Kishimoto changed his mind about that too. He gave a databook filled with ages for the adults and ages at which they became chuunin. Well, Kurenai has been deaged, Anko and Hayate has been aged up and Kakashi took his Chuunin Exams along with all the others. Kishimoto changes his mind about this stuff.

But even assuming that Itachi, alone among the older Konoha nin has his dates untouched, so what?? May I remind you that Mizuki, Iruka, the Demon Brothers, Obito and Shikamaru were all Chuunin too? Wave Arc Sasuke could probably take down all these guys, Neji most definitely can. Kabuto said the crop of candidates he saw in the Chuunin Exams was the toughest he'd seen in all the years he'd been coming. INO AND SAKURA MADE THE TOP 20. And we don't even know if Itachi was the only one that passed in his year.

And having mastered Sharingan most assurdely does not equal having mastered all Sharingan Genjutsu. And itachi is still 8 years old. He may have  Hokage level wisdom (which I personally disagree with considering every Hokage we know would almost certainly deem driving your brother insane and getting him to abandon the village to murder you as means of forging him into a hero that would protect Konoha as unwise) but as a fighter? He's still got tiny legs and tiny arms and a small chakra pool. 

IMO he MIGHT get passed Wave Arc Sasuke and we don't know enough about Part 1 Tenten to say much but Neji rapes him.


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