# Are Uchiha fans really serious when they say that Sharingan is better than Rinnegan?



## Bentham (Mar 20, 2010)

I mean they must be joking right? Im still relatively new here so maybe im taking it too seriously. After the databook revealed that all pein's powers are ebcause of the Rinnegan, peoples still say MS is better????? people still say EMS will add 1 single techique that will make it greater than Rinnegan? After what Jiraiya said, what amdara said about the tablets, what has been implied over and over again that RInnegan is simply something else, people still say that it is debatable that it is the greatest dojutsu.............................
Its  all a big joke right? Please tell me so


----------



## Zach (Mar 20, 2010)

Just simple tardism


----------



## Sasuke_Bateman (Mar 20, 2010)

Sharingan is better


----------



## BrightlyGoob (Mar 20, 2010)

I guess so; they are so blinded by the nerdiness -  jk - of the Sharingan that they fail to see that the rinnegan is the ultimate kekkei genkai. 

I'm not saying the Sharingan sucks, nor am I saying that I loathe it [im mutual..], but Rinnegan is most definitely stronger than the Sharingan.


----------



## memocay (Mar 20, 2010)

Bentham said:


> I mean they must be joking right? Im still relatively new here so maybe im taking it too seriously. After the databook revealed that all pein's powers are ebcause of the Rinnegan, peoples still say MS is better????? people still say EMS will add 1 single techique that will make it greater than Rinnegan? After what Jiraiya said, what amdara said about the tablets, what has been implied over and over again that RInnegan is simply something else, people still say that it is debatable that it is the greatest dojutsu.............................
> Its  all a big joke right? Please tell me so



Nagato was made of so much FAIL that people start to doubt the Rinnegans superiority 

And the Fact that Madara was Nagato?s pimp wasn?t helping either


----------



## Bentham (Mar 20, 2010)

from some of the post on here...ive realized that they were not joking...man, sad


----------



## Makoto Sensei (Mar 20, 2010)

Well, the Rinnegan _is _stronger, but the Sharingan is always in evolution.. I'd say they both have their advantages


----------



## Zetamancer (Mar 20, 2010)

I say that the Sharingan is better, though it shouldn't be. The sharingan  is only better because of it's infinite capacity of producing new godly abilities when necessary.

The rinnegan, while godly, has a more fair and preset amount of abilities. 

Sharingan = Copy techniques, Control Kyuubi, Amaterasu, Susanoo, Tsukiyomi, That weird thing danzou kept doing, Teleportation, Dimension traveling, space-time manipulation, genjutsu, put out mystical flames of amaterasu. Abilities will continue to be added.

Rinnegan = Master 6 styles of jutsu, master the 6 paths, greatly detriment user's health.
Abilities probably won't continue to be added.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 20, 2010)

wait when did the next databook get released?


----------



## Naklin (Mar 20, 2010)

^ khris

people are not gonna believe the databook you know


----------



## Judecious (Mar 20, 2010)

let them be 
rinnengan shits on the sharinagn


----------



## Mist Puppet (Mar 20, 2010)

Apparently.

But since the Sharingan has mastery over asspulls, it will probably be the strongest by the end of the manga.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 20, 2010)

CrimsonMoon said:


> ^ khris
> 
> people are not gonna believe the databook you know



i still wanna know when did get released.. as far as i know in DB III there was still so much mystery considering the pain bodies... so unless this guy soooo outdated, there must be a fourth data-book and by using google there ain't no such thang


----------



## Bentham (Mar 20, 2010)

Khris said:


> i still wanna know when did get released.. as far as i know in DB III there was still so much mystery considering the pain bodies... so unless this guy soooo outdated, there must be a fourth data-book and by using google there ain't no such thang



the newest databook confirmed that all the techniques of the 6 paths, and the 6 paths themselves were becaus of rinnegan


----------



## Naklin (Mar 20, 2010)

^khris
 yeah ... I think it will be released next year.. I am not sure though


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Mar 20, 2010)

Bentham said:


> the newest databook confirmed that all the techniques of the 6 paths, and the 6 paths themselves were becaus of rinnegan



i thought that was general knowledge.. oh well


----------



## ? (Mar 20, 2010)

rinnegan is easily stronger than sharingan. every character who has had rinnegan has been near god tier (if not there). even the final villain wants it.


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 20, 2010)

Rinnegan was implied to be the greatest out of all 3 because it had god like techniques such as resurrecting, creating moons, etc.

But in all honesty, I find the sharingan's abilities SO MUCH more reliable/useful in battle than the rinnegan, but then again that's just me.


----------



## Sarry (Mar 20, 2010)

Bentham said:


> I mean they must be joking right? Im still relatively new here so maybe im taking it too seriously. After the databook revealed that all pein's powers are ebcause of the Rinnegan, peoples still say MS is better????? people still say EMS will add 1 single techique that will make it greater than Rinnegan? After what Jiraiya said, what amdara said about the tablets, what has been implied over and over again that RInnegan is simply something else, people still say that it is debatable that it is the greatest dojutsu.............................
> Its  all a big joke right? Please tell me so



It isn't a joke . Rinnengan is better in theory. But the Sharingan has shown much more proof of its power and there is still more to be discovered. 

Rinnengan was only shown by Nagato who was a cripple and couldn't use that power in his own body. And even then, the rinnengan didn't show its full power. 

Proof>>>>Hype


----------



## Ra (Mar 20, 2010)

The sharingan is stronger than the rinnegan.


----------



## UchihaClown (Mar 20, 2010)

rinnegan>sharingan 

'nuff said.


----------



## sheshyo (Mar 20, 2010)

Madara's keen interest in development of Sasuke and his eyes (along with his own objective to restore his 'true powers'), with comparatively little regards to Nagato/Rinnegan, indeed does hint the ultimate superiority of the Sharingan. In any case, the conclusion isn't cut and dry, yet.


----------



## Selva (Mar 20, 2010)

It's a fact from the manga that the Rinnegan is the most revered and powerful of all the three great Dojutsu... Its occurrence is extremely rare... Rikudo Sennin (the founder of the ninja world) had the Rinnegan... the legendary Uchiha Madara himself wants the Rinnegan... nuff said.


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 20, 2010)

selvaspeedy said:


> It's a fact from the manga that the Rinnegan is the most revered and powerful of all the three great Dojutsu... Its occurrence is extremely rare... Rikudo Sennin (the founder of the ninja world) had the Rinnegan... the legendary Uchiha Madara himself wants the Rinnegan... nuff said.



he wants the rinnegan to obtain "the sharingan's true power " 

right? 

I know the rinnegan was implied to be the strongest THEN, but story moves on and things change. An example of this would be Neji Vs Sasuke during the chuunin exams. It's still too early in the manga, to conclude which doujutsu is really better.


----------



## Judecious (Mar 20, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> he wants the rinnegan to obtain "the sharingan's true power "
> 
> right?
> 
> I know the rinnegan was implied to be the strongest THEN, but story moves on and things change. An example of this would be Neji Vs Sasuke during the chuunin exams.



dude stop 
the only reasons theres a sharingan is because their was rinnengan


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 20, 2010)

The Rinnengan is greatly underestimated on this board. Its abilities are so far out of the scope of the Sharingan, its not even funny, which includes the MS and EMS.

Rinnengan's full abilities: Gravitational Powers, Genjutsu Immunity, Monster Taijutsu, Soul Sucking, Soul Devouring, Resurrection, Six Paths Jutsu, Gedo Mazo, Summoning, Able to learn any Element, the Outer Path...

The Sharingan just doesn't compare.


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 20, 2010)

naruto the best said:


> dude stop
> the only reasons theres a sharingan is because their was rinnengan



The only reason there's people is because there were monkeys. See what I did there?


----------



## Judecious (Mar 20, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> The only reason there's people is because there were monkeys. See what I did there?



dude seriously madara had the most powerful sharingan and kyuubi and still fucking lost to shodai 
and the sage had rinnengan and whipped the 10 tail ass 
see


----------



## Selva (Mar 20, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> *he wants the rinnegan to obtain "the sharingan's true power "*
> 
> right?


What? Where did you read that? And how does this imply the superiority of the Sharingan?



> I know the rinnegan was implied to be the strongest THEN, but story moves on and things change. An example of this would be Neji Vs Sasuke during the chuunin exams. It's still too early in the manga, to conclude which doujutsu is really better.


Rikuddo Sennin with his Rinnegan showed up way before Madara with his EMS but still until now the Rinnegan is considered to be the most prestigious eyes. Just because we didn't see the full extent of the Rinnegan powers doesn't mean the Sharingan is superior


----------



## ? (Mar 20, 2010)

rinnegan can copy anything sharingan can do with shouten clone, plus it has other abilities that outshine sharingan. 

infact, rinnegan can do sharingans abilities better than a true sharingan user since a shouten clone allows the rinnegan user to use MS without going blind.

rinnegan>sharingan, just as the manga has shown and hinted many times.


----------



## Kalashnikov (Mar 20, 2010)

Sharingan is a Rinnegan striped down from the best of its abilities. Nothing to add here.

Sharingantards, you may start spilling your bullshit now.


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 20, 2010)

naruto the best said:


> dude seriously madara had the most powerful sharingan and kyuubi and still fucking lost to shodai
> and the sage had rinnengan and whipped the 10 tail ass
> see



And nagato lost to naruto, who's weaker than shodai. I can do that too.



selvaspeedy said:


> What? Where did you read that? And how does this imply the superiority of the Sharingan?
> 
> 
> Rikuddo Sennin with his Rinnegan showed up way before Madara with his EMS but still until now the Rinnegan is considered to be the most prestigious eyes. Just because we didn't see the full extent of the Rinnegan powers doesn't mean the Sharingan is superior



Isn't madara's goal "the sharingan's true power and "I will have these eyes upgraded to the ultimate level" 

Face it yo, Sharingan's true power trumps rinnegan according to madara. We just haven't seen the sharingan's full potential yet.

Please don't hate on me, hate on madara.


----------



## ensoriki (Mar 20, 2010)

If you think thats bad there are people who think Sharingan is stronger than Byakugan.




...swish.


----------



## Judecious (Mar 20, 2010)

wow you uchiha fans are just


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 20, 2010)

Inu said:


> rinnegan can copy anything sharingan can do with shouten clone, plus it has other abilities that outshine sharingan.
> 
> infact, rinnegan can do sharingans abilities better than a true sharingan user since a shouten clone allows the rinnegan user to use MS without going blind.
> 
> rinnegan>sharingan, just as the manga has shown and hinted many times.



what's a shouten clone?


----------



## ? (Mar 20, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> what's a shouten clone?


the technique nagato used to create copies of kisame and itachi.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 20, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> And nagato lost to naruto, who's weaker than shodai. I can do that too.


Nagato willingly sacrificed his life. Not really a loss.




> Isn't madara's goal "the sharingan's true power and "I will have these eyes upgraded to the ultimate level"
> 
> Face it yo, Sharingan's true power trumps rinnegan according to madara. We just haven't seen the sharingan's full potential yet.
> 
> Please don't hate on me, hate on madara.


No, it is hate on you. The Sharingan does NOT trump the Rinnegan, and Madara _is not a credible source_, hell it seems like you're using the sucky translation. The fanbook, the databook, and the manga-Rinnegan the strongest.


----------



## Selva (Mar 20, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> Please don't hate on me, hate on madara.


I'm not hating on you... more like  at you but whatever. Don't hate on me for saying the truth bro.


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 20, 2010)

Inu said:


> the technique nagato used to create copies of kisame and itachi.



last i checked, he wasn't able too use MS because of it. And how many uchiha are known to have large supply of chakra for this clone to actually use MS?


----------



## ? (Mar 20, 2010)

ensoriki said:


> If you think thats bad there are people who think Sharingan is stronger than Byakugan.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


what is byakugan? is that the eye ranmaru (anime filler character) has?


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 20, 2010)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Nagato willingly sacrificed his life. Not really a loss.



 okay.



> No, it is hate on you. The Sharingan does NOT trump the Rinnegan, and Madara _is not a credible source_, hell it seems like you're using the sucky translation. The fanbook, the databook, and the manga-Rinnegan the strongest.



Uhh manga, databook, fanbooks update every now and then.


----------



## ensoriki (Mar 20, 2010)

wtf Nagato didn't create those clones it was Itachi, he said it was some clan jutsu.


----------



## shit (Mar 20, 2010)

the sharingan is stronger than the rinnegan


----------



## ? (Mar 20, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> last i checked, he wasn't able too use MS because of it. And how many uchiha are known to have large supply of chakra for this clone to actually use MS?


then that would be the fought of the uchiha for having ino level stamina. fact is, he can make perfect copies of doujutsu. even weapons.


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 20, 2010)

Inu said:


> then that would be the fought of the uchiha for having ino level stamina. fact is, he can make perfect copies of doujutsu. even weapons.



My point exactly, can't copy MS techniques due to their low level of chakra.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 20, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> okay.
> 
> 
> 
> Uhh manga, databook, fanbooks update every now and then.


And every update has said the Rinnegan is the superior dojutsu. Only Uchiatards like you fail to acknowledge that.

And yes, Nagato chose to resurrect people.


Juggalo said:


> the sharingan is stronger than the rinnegan


No, its not.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 20, 2010)

ensoriki said:


> wtf Nagato didn't create those clones it was Itachi, he said it was some clan jutsu.


No, you troll. Pain was the one who made those 'clones'.


----------



## ? (Mar 20, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> My point exactly, can't copy MS techniques due to their low level of chakra.


actually madara was a stamina monster (can summon kyuubi), so he could do it to him.

hell, he can do it to any MS user if he got all their chakra or the chakra required to use MS.


----------



## Yagura (Mar 20, 2010)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> The Rinnengan is greatly underestimated on this board. Its abilities are so far out of the scope of the Sharingan, its not even funny, which includes the MS and *EMS.*


We don't know this.


Inu said:


> rinnegan can copy anything sharingan can do with shouten clone, plus it has other abilities that outshine sharingan.
> 
> infact, rinnegan can do sharingans abilities better than a true sharingan user since a shouten clone allows the rinnegan user to use MS without going blind.



Yes, but you need a Sharingan User in order to Perform this feat.



naruto the best said:


> dude seriously madara had the most powerful sharingan and kyuubi and still fucking lost to shodai
> and the sage had rinnengan and whipped the 10 tail ass
> see


_A tool is only as Powerful as the Shinobi that weilds it._ -Black Zetsu


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 20, 2010)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And every update has said the Rinnegan is the superior dojutsu. Only Uchiatards like you fail to acknowledge that.



Manga isn't done yet, now is it? So that means more updates to come. And since madara(final villain btw) wanks all over his sharingan and his true upcoming powers, it should be more than enough to determine which doujutsu is actually more powerful.


----------



## ? (Mar 20, 2010)

Yagura said:


> Yes, but you need a Sharingan User in order to Perfom what you are implying.



that may be true, but it doesn't change the fact that rinnegan has the potential to use sharingan techniques.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 20, 2010)

Yagura said:


> We don't know this.


Yeah, we kind of do. The EMS is still a Sharingan, that just removes the blinding limit that the MS has. Still inferior to the Rinnegan.


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 20, 2010)

Inu said:


> actually madara was a stamina monster (can summon kyuubi), so he could do it to him.



we'll have to wait for this one, because all we can do is speculate.

EDIT: what makes u so sure this shape shift technique is actually part of the rinnegan anyway?


----------



## Griever (Mar 20, 2010)

Yeah, Rinnegan is way better than Sharingan, looking at the abilitys each grant it's not even disputable.

The way i see it Rinnegan > Sharingan > Byakugan.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 20, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> Manga isn't done yet, now is it? So that means more updates to come. And since madara(final villain btw) wanks all over his sharingan and his true upcoming powers, it should be more than enough to determine which doujutsu is actually more powerful.


_Sasuke_ is the final villain, not Madara, first off. And There is nothing that the Sharingan can get that puts it over the Rinnegan. The Sharingan is a powerful bloodline, but it was established by Madara himself to be the inferior dojutsus in the manga, hence why _he is getting the Rinnegan for himself_.

Harry, stop ignoring manga facts and stop saying 'oh the manga isn't over yet' to justify your fanwank.

I hate how Uchiatards like you ignore that.


----------



## Mist Puppet (Mar 20, 2010)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> _Sasuke_ is the final villain



Since when?


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 20, 2010)

Mist Puppet said:


> Since when?


End of 2009 interview. Kishimoto said that Sasuke was the final villain. 

You guys didn't know about it? They were talking about it a hell of a lot on Mangahelpers.


----------



## Griever (Mar 20, 2010)

Mist Puppet said:


> Since when?



Well, Sasuke and Naruto's bond make him an ideal final villain, y'know for the emotional ending (well, kishi's best shot anyways) so it's kinda expected.


----------



## Yagura (Mar 20, 2010)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Yeah, we kind of do. The EMS is still a Sharingan, that just removes the blinding limit that the MS has.



What about Madara's
-Teleportation
-Selective Intangibility
-Reverse Kamui
-Separate Dimension

Aren't these also apart of EMS?


----------



## PikaCheeka (Mar 20, 2010)

Nagato's powers came from the Rinnegan. What's your point? 

Someone with EMS can control the Kyuubi. As well as use Susano'o, the strongest summon (if he can be called that) in the series. And use Amaterasu. And Tsukiyomi. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



And even a normal Sharingan can use Izanagi.




Rinnegan keeps being mentioned and hyped and obsessed over, but people don't know much about it so it's stupid to say it's better than Sharingan. We've SEEN what MS and EMS are capable of. 

The only Rinnegan user we saw got raeped by Naruto, while Itachi has shit on everyone he's ever fought (yes, even Sasuke).


*Spoiler*: __ 



And from what's been implied, Madara wants to combine the Rinnegan and Sharingan. That doesn't mean one is stronger than the other.






Sarry said:


> It isn't a joke . Rinnengan is better in theory. But the Sharingan has shown much more proof of its power and there is still more to be discovered.
> 
> Rinnengan was only shown by Nagato who was a cripple and couldn't use that power in his own body. And even then, the rinnengan didn't show its full power.
> 
> Proof>>>>Hype



This.


----------



## Judecious (Mar 20, 2010)

Yagura said:


> What about Madara's
> -Teleportation
> -Selective Intangibility
> -Reverse Kamui
> ...



everytime madara uses that he uses regular sharingan tho


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 20, 2010)

Yagura said:


> What about Madara's
> -Teleportation
> -Selective Intangibility
> -Reverse Kamui
> ...


We don't know about that. And those are _still inferior_ to the Rinnegan.

And his 'selective intangibility' isn't all that great. He DID lose an arm to Torune after all.


----------



## Momoka (Mar 20, 2010)

...

I don't know...


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 20, 2010)

PikaCheeka, the Rinnegan's powers far outstrip the MS and EMS, and the fanbook confirmed that it was the strongest dojutsu, as well as the manga (from what Madara, Jiraiya, etc says), and the databooks.

Your opinion>>>>>>>>Canon.


----------



## Mist Puppet (Mar 20, 2010)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> End of 2009 interview. Kishimoto said that Sasuke was the final villain.
> 
> You guys didn't know about it? They were talking about it a hell of a lot on Mangahelpers.



Pretty sure he was talking about Naruto and Sasuke having a final fight.

Which is ambiguous in nature



Griever said:


> Well, Sasuke and Naruto's bond make him an ideal final villain, y'know for the emotional ending (well, kishi's best shot anyways) so it's kinda expected.



Guess Madara was pointless then.


----------



## Griever (Mar 20, 2010)

Mist Puppet said:


> Guess Madara was pointless then.



Not at all, if not Madara then who would have built Sasuke up to this point?.

Without Madara Sasuke wouldn't have had:

1. MS (well, he might have got MS)
2. EMS
3. the drive to kill everyone in Konoha

I believe that Madara is a plot device to build up Sasuke to be the final villain, just as Nagato was to build Naruto up to be the savior.

I mean this manga is pretty much about Naruto and Sasuke, the fact that Sasuke would be the final villain isn't really all that surprising.


----------



## Mist Puppet (Mar 20, 2010)

Griever said:


> Not at all, if not Madara then who would have built Sasuke up to this point?.
> 
> Without Madara Sasuke wouldn't have had:
> 
> ...



Meh. I just don't really like the idea of Sasuke being final villain. Kishi did a horrible job setting him up as one, and his "motivations" are just horribly written.

That, and I just really hate his character.


----------



## Judecious (Mar 20, 2010)

ok wtf sasuke is no final villain


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 20, 2010)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Well remember what happened to Orochimaru? Madara is basically being set up for a big fall to become either Sasuke's bitch or die by Sasuke's hands.



no he's actually being set up to be a god.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 20, 2010)

naruto the best said:


> ok wtf sasuke is no final villain


I don't like it either, but thats what Kishimoto is setting up things for.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 20, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> no he's actually being set up to be a god.


_Laughs_. You _seriously_ believe that Madara _is going to succeed?_ 

In another hundred chapters, he's either killed by Sasuke or made his bitch. That's the way this manga rolls.


----------



## Demon_Sargeras (Mar 20, 2010)

Bentham said:


> I mean they must be joking right? Im still relatively new here so maybe im taking it too seriously. After the databook revealed that all pein's powers are ebcause of the Rinnegan, peoples still say MS is better????? people still say EMS will add 1 single techique that will make it greater than Rinnegan? After what Jiraiya said, what amdara said about the tablets, what has been implied over and over again that RInnegan is simply something else, people still say that it is debatable that it is the greatest dojutsu.............................
> Its  all a big joke right? Please tell me so


i suggest you re-read the databook
it says clearly
that the MS is the strongest doujutsu
rinnegan is the noblest, and the oldest
EMS > rinnegan
said by kishimoto
i am not an uchiha fan, my fav char used to be orochimaru
but this is a fact, when in the manga it is said that the rinnegan developped into a sharingan

the sage was the only person fully capable of utilizing rinnegan's power to the max
compared to his rinnegan and his powers, sharingan is a joke
but compared to pains, MS, and EMS are better


----------



## Griever (Mar 20, 2010)

Mist Puppet said:


> Meh. I just don't really like the idea of Sasuke being final villain. Kishi did a horrible job setting him up as one, and his "motivations" are just horribly written.
> 
> That, and I just really hate his character.



Neither do i actually, it would be better if Madara got his full power back and was the final villain at this point.

I liked Pain or Orochimaru to be the final villain myself.

But i can't deny the possibility.


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 20, 2010)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> _Laughs_. You _seriously_ believe that Madara _is going to succeed?_
> 
> In another hundred chapters, he's either killed by Sasuke or made his bitch. That's the way this manga rolls.



no it doesn't roll like that one bit, sasuke is madara's bitch.

bitches will remain bitches.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 20, 2010)

Demon_Sargeras said:


> i suggest you re-read the databook
> it says clearly
> that the MS is the strongest doujutsu
> rinnegan is the noblest, and the oldest
> ...


...wrong. the Fanbook and databook said that the Rinnegan was the strongest. EMS is not the strongest.

Many mistralations of it have put the EMS have the strongest, but those have been motivated by Uchiha fanboys.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 20, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> no it doesn't roll like that one bit, sasuke is madara's bitch.
> 
> bitches will remain bitches.


And thats what happened with Orochimaru and Sasuke, huh? 

Seriously, Sasuke is going to be the final villain. Madara either dies to hype him up or starts serving him.


----------



## Bloo (Mar 20, 2010)

I'm a big Itachi fan but I never once thought this, although I think it's easier to unlock the Sharingans full capabilities easier than the Rinnegan. Which is why Nagato said he didn't even compare to the Rikudou.


----------



## Judecious (Mar 20, 2010)

Demon_Sargeras said:


> i suggest you re-read the databook
> it says clearly
> that the MS is the strongest doujutsu
> rinnegan is the noblest, and the oldest
> ...



it's either you don't know how to read right or you are just a UCHIHA FAN


----------



## Griever (Mar 21, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> no it doesn't roll like that one bit, sasuke is madara's bitch.
> 
> bitches will remain bitches.



Don't underestimate the king of the trolls Mr. Kishimoto


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 21, 2010)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And thats what happened with Orochimaru and Sasuke, huh?



Isn't he still a bitch? Who does he listen too, madara?


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

PikaCheeka said:


> Nagato's powers came from the Rinnegan. What's your point?
> 
> Someone with EMS can control the Kyuubi. As well as use Susano'o, the strongest summon (if he can be called that) in the series. And use Amaterasu. And Tsukiyomi.
> 
> ...



I'm sorry, I forgot that Nagato wasn't held back while his opponent had several advantages!

The Rinnegan is stated as the strongest in the databook itself. Don't like it?

Too damned bad. Get over it already.


----------



## Tipster74743 (Mar 21, 2010)

Nagato had advantages, too.

Nagato had amazing prep time (Pain already summoned on the field, that's a jutsu, too). 

He had some amazing plot going for him... he was killing a jutsu (Pain) and Pain got some ridiculous plot shit.

Amazing intel on Naruto. He knew he was a sage already. He knew to stop the Frog Song genjutsu.

I'm sure there's more, but people keep forgetting about those slight advantages.


----------



## Demon_Sargeras (Mar 21, 2010)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> ...wrong. the Fanbook and databook said that the Rinnegan was the strongest. EMS is not the strongest.
> 
> Many mistralations of it have put the EMS have the strongest, but those have been motivated by Uchiha fanboys.


mind showing me a scan?


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 21, 2010)

Demon_Sargeras said:


> mind showing me a scan?


Not on me. I'm just going by what I saw and was translated for me. The Rinnegan is the strongest and oldest dojutsu.


----------



## shit (Mar 21, 2010)

Madara lived for 100+ years and Nagato lived for 30- years
hmmmmmm


----------



## Judecious (Mar 21, 2010)

Juggalo said:


> Madara lived for 100+ years and Nagato lived for 30- years
> hmmmmmm



point is
shodai live for however long but still stomp on madara hmmmmmmm


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 21, 2010)

Juggalo said:


> Madara lived for 100+ years and Nagato lived for 30- years
> hmmmmmm


And Madara can't attack at all and is a shadow of his former self while Nagato destroyed Konoha without the aid of a bijuu or even an army.


----------



## muishot (Mar 21, 2010)

Kalashnikov said:


> Sharingan is a Rinnegan striped down from the best of its abilities. Nothing to add here.
> 
> Sharingantards, you may start spilling your bullshit now.



This is clearly a false assertion.  Rikkodou had two sons while he was the host of the Juubi.  And we know the Juubi from one of the panel to have something like a Sharingan.  So maybe the Uchihas received the Juubi's genetic.


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

Demon_Sargeras said:


> mind showing me a scan?



From the third databook:

Samsara* Eye (輪廻眼, Rinnegan)
Ninjutsu, Kekkei Genkai, No rank, Supplementary
User: Nagato

The supreme eyes that appear during troubled times
Will they bring about creation or destruction~~

The doujutsu held by the founder of the shinobi, the "Sage of the Six Realms"** It's most distinctive feature being the ripple pattern spreading out over the eyeballs, the "Rinnegan" are the most powerful eyes among the "Three Great Doujutsu," the other two being the "Sharingan" and "Byakugan". Admired as being able to bring forth all ninjutsu, the holder of these eyes can completely master the five elemental nature transformations that form the basis of ninjutsu. It is said that in times when the world is in disorder, this person is sent down from the heavens to become either a "God of Creation" who will calm the world, or a "Destroyer" who reduce everything to nothing.


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

Juggalo said:


> Madara lived for 100+ years and Nagato lived for 30- years
> hmmmmmm



By that idiotic logic, Kakuzu>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Minato, right?


----------



## muishot (Mar 21, 2010)

naruto the best said:


> point is
> shodai live for however long but still stomp on madara hmmmmmmm



Shodai defeated an inexperience Madara.  It is like the Current Madara vs Kakashi.  Or Madara vs the Sasuke with newly received EMS.


----------



## Judecious (Mar 21, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> From the third databook:
> 
> Samsara* Eye (輪廻眼, Rinnegan)
> Ninjutsu, Kekkei Genkai, No rank, Supplementary
> ...



thread is over


----------



## shit (Mar 21, 2010)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And Madara can't attack at all and is a shadow of his former self while Nagato destroyed Konoha without the aid of a bijuu or even an army.



he helped beat the 3-tails and was mizukage



Lightysnake said:


> Kakuzu>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Minato, right?



I agree with this


----------



## Turrin (Mar 21, 2010)

Yes they are serious even though Rannigan is stated to be the strongest Dojutsu several times and was the weapon of the strongest man who ever lived. 

Thats not to say that Sharigan can't become more powerful, but as of right now the Rannigan is a-lot stronger.


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

Juggalo said:


> he helped beat the 3-tails and was mizukage



We have nothing on the details of the latter and Deidara did all the work on the three tails



> I agree with this



That also means Kakuzu>>>>>Nagato. And Itachi. 

Hell, it must mean Chiyo>Sasori. And Deidara. And Itachi, too!


----------



## Selva (Mar 21, 2010)

Juggalo said:


> Madara lived for 100+ years and Nagato lived for 30- years
> hmmmmmm


Don't compare Madara to the crippled Nagato (who already said he's leagues below Rikudo Sennin; the man who truly mastered the Rinnegan). For all we know, Madara might be using a forbidden Jutsu or something to extend his life!



Lightysnake said:


> From the third databook:
> 
> Samsara* Eye (輪廻眼, Rinnegan)
> Ninjutsu, Kekkei Genkai, No rank, Supplementary
> ...


This. Thank you.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 21, 2010)

Juggalo said:


> he helped beat the 3-tails and was mizukage


...the three tails who could barely control his power and Deidara did all the work. And Madara himself said he was a shadow of his former self.


----------



## shit (Mar 21, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> and Deidara did all the work on the three tails



you know this from....?


----------



## alchemy1234 (Mar 21, 2010)

I for one am. I have listed my opinions in an old thread i made, which was, much to my dismay revived by someone.


----------



## shit (Mar 21, 2010)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> ...the three tails who could barely control his power and Deidara did all the work. And Madara himself said he was a shadow of his former self.



Itachi said that


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

Juggalo said:


> you know this from....?



Deidara attacks three tails.
Three Tails is seen unconscious next
Deidara yells at Tobi for claiming he did the work.


Connect the dots


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 21, 2010)

Juggalo said:


> you know this from....?


Since we saw Deidara creating the bombs to incapacitate the Three tails?


----------



## muishot (Mar 21, 2010)

Turrin said:


> Yes they are serious even though Rannigan is stated to be the strongest Dojutsu several times and was the weapon of the strongest man who ever lived.
> 
> Thats not to say that Sharigan can't become more powerful, but as of right now the Rannigan is a-lot stronger.



Rikkodu was the strongest and still is the strongest ninja (Until Madara becomes a host of the ten tail if it ever comes to that) when he was the 10 Tails Jinchuriki.  As far as we know, we don't know if he is the strongest ninja before he is the host of the 10 tails.  He defeated the 10 tails the same way the Fourth defeated the Kyubi.  The Fourth wasn't as powerful as the Kyubi, but he was able to defeated it by sealing it in a host.  

He was the first to develop the ninja arts, nothing more and nothing less.


----------



## shit (Mar 21, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> Deidara attacks three tails.
> Three Tails is seen unconscious next
> Deidara yells at Tobi for claiming he did the work.
> 
> ...



Deidera was vain though. Can you trust that? Were you rly meant to?


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

Juggalo said:


> Itachi said that




OMG MADARA IS ITACHI


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

Juggalo said:


> Deidera was vain though. Can you trust that? Were you rly meant to?



Deidara has never taken credit for something he didn't do and has kept a realistic assesment of abilities and admitted when he had a hard time with people.


----------



## shit (Mar 21, 2010)

haha I made you look for a panel


----------



## Hexa (Mar 21, 2010)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> ...wrong. the Fanbook and databook said that the Rinnegan was the strongest. EMS is not the strongest.


It's not really so clear cut:

*DB3*Eye Powers
Caption: The power of *the supreme pupils, the Mangekyou Sharingan*.​
*DB2*The culmination of the Sharingan that makes the Uchiha clan so special! Eye techniques holding the utmost potency even above both the insight and hypnosis, such as Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu become possible. Assuredly, *Mangekyou Sharingan is the ultimate doujutsu*​


----------



## Demon_Sargeras (Mar 21, 2010)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Not on me. I'm just going by what I saw and was translated for me. The Rinnegan is the strongest and oldest dojutsu.


i clearly remember the scans from last year
in the databook it is sated that the MS is the strongest doujutsu!
if i had a eng one i would've shown you the scans
but it's the MS being the strongest doujutsu


----------



## Judecious (Mar 21, 2010)

Hexa said:


> It's not really so clear cut:
> 
> *DB3*Eye Powers
> Caption: The power of *the supreme pupils, the Mangekyou Sharingan*.​
> *DB2*The culmination of the Sharingan that makes the Uchiha clan so special! Eye techniques holding the utmost potency even above both the insight and hypnosis, such as Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu become possible. Assuredly, *Mangekyou Sharingan is the ultimate doujutsu*​



From the third databook:

Samsara* Eye (輪廻眼, Rinnegan)
Ninjutsu, Kekkei Genkai, No rank, Supplementary
User: Nagato

The supreme eyes that appear during troubled times
Will they bring about creation or destruction~~

The doujutsu held by the founder of the shinobi, the "Sage of the Six Realms"** It's most distinctive feature being the ripple pattern spreading out over the eyeballs, the "Rinnegan" are the most powerful eyes among the "Three Great Doujutsu," the other two being the "Sharingan" and "Byakugan". Admired as being able to bring forth all ninjutsu, the holder of these eyes can completely master the five elemental nature transformations that form the basis of ninjutsu. It is said that in times when the world is in disorder, this person is sent down from the heavens to become either a "God of Creation" who will calm the world, or a "Destroyer" who reduce everything to nothing.
Lightysnake is online now Add to Lightysnake's Reputation Report Post   	Reply With Quote


----------



## Demon_Sargeras (Mar 21, 2010)

Hexa said:


> It's not really so clear cut:
> 
> *DB3*Eye Powers
> Caption: The power of *the supreme pupils, the Mangekyou Sharingan*.​
> *DB2*The culmination of the Sharingan that makes the Uchiha clan so special! Eye techniques holding the utmost potency even above both the insight and hypnosis, such as Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu become possible. Assuredly, *Mangekyou Sharingan is the ultimate doujutsu*​


there
thanx lol


----------



## Love. (Mar 21, 2010)

Sharingan has shown better eyesight and genjutsu feats then the Rinnengan.

I beleive Rinnengan is better, but they_are _Uchiha fans.


----------



## Demon_Sargeras (Mar 21, 2010)

naruto the best said:


> From the third databook:
> 
> Samsara* Eye (輪廻眼, Rinnegan)
> Ninjutsu, Kekkei Genkai, No rank, Supplementary
> ...


dang 
owned
haha 
meh i suppose rinnegan is the strongest
too bad we haven't seen much of it's strength in the manga so far


----------



## Hexa (Mar 21, 2010)

naruto the best said:


> From the third databook:


Yeah, that's .  Wherever Lightysnake copy and pasted that from edited ShounenSuki's translation to say "most powerful" instead of what it actually says ("most exalted").

There _is_ a statement tucked away in Pain's entry where the Rinnegan is called the "supreme doujutsu".  But the MS is also termed as such, and it's called such in bold letters.  Basically, you can view it as you like, but there's really nothing in the databook to prove one is stronger than the other, considering they are _both_ called "supreme".


----------



## shit (Mar 21, 2010)

also to those saying Madara can't attack, Danzou was scared to flee from Sasuke even though Sasuke couldn't rly move b/c Madara was there


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

Hexa said:


> Yeah, that's .  Wherever Lightysnake copy and pasted that from edited ShounenSuki's translation to say "most powerful" instead of what it actually says ("most exalted").
> 
> There _is_ a statement tucked away in Pain's entry where the Rinnegan is called the "supreme doujutsu".  But the MS is also termed as such, and it's called such in bold letters.  Basically, you can view it as you like, but there's really nothing in the databook to prove one is stronger than the other, considering they are _both_ called "supreme".



I just CPed that from elsewhere, so it might be a different trans.; Nevertheless, it's said to be held as 'exalted' over the other two and has shown much better powers.


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Mar 21, 2010)

Yes, we do believe sharingan is the strongest, and even the Rinegan fantatics, deep down know this. Thus everytime the sharingan gets a knew power, all the moaning and growning about the sharingan being too haxed start to frail up.

Offensively I would say the Sharingan and all of it's variants are more powerful overall. 

Let's get this straight both have the infinite potential, as the sharingan allows you to copy an infinite number of things, providing you meet all the requirements. The Rinegan makes you be able to learn an infinite number of things, as long as you meet the requirements.


Sharingan and it's variants. Just have too many hax abilities offensively.


----------



## Hexa (Mar 21, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> I just CPed that from elsewhere, so it might be a different trans.; Nevertheless, it's said to be held as 'exalted' over the other two and has shown much better powers.


Being held as "exalted" is pretty irrelevant.  It is called _supreme_, though, which is much more relevant.  On the other hand, the Mangekyou Sharingan is also called _supreme_, so it's not really too worthwhile.

If you want to say "feats are better", fine.  But don't say, "databook calls it the strongest" (or, more absurdly, the fanbook).  The databook more or less calls both the Rinnegan and MS the strongest doujutsu.  In reality, probably neither are.


----------



## Ra (Mar 21, 2010)

The sharingan surpass the rinnegan by a mile.

The sharingan has the following:

Amaterasu
Susanoo
Tsukuyomi
Instant Kamui
Copy jutsus
Predict movements
Control Kyuubi

and EMS Which abilities are unknown,

The rinnegan has the following:

Gedo mazo
soul sucking
6 paths
shared vision
Dead Revival

The sharingan vastly out match the rinnegan.


----------



## Nagato Sennin (Mar 21, 2010)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Yes, we do believe sharingan is the strongest, and even the Rinegan fantatics, deep down know this.



LOL bahaha. Biggest load of shi I've ever heard


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Yes, we do believe sharingan is the strongest, and even the Rinegan fantatics, deep down know this. Thus everytime the sharingan gets a knew power, all the moaning and growning about the sharingan being too haxed start to frail up.
> 
> Offensively I would say the Sharingan and all of it's variants are more powerful overall.
> 
> ...



The Rinnegan ISN'T haxed up with its better powers? Tell me, when does the Sharingan hold power over life and death?


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

Hexa said:


> Being held as "exalted" is pretty irrelevant.  It is called _supreme_, though, which is much more relevant.  On the other hand, the Mangekyou Sharingan is also called _supreme_, so it's not really too worthwhile.
> 
> If you want to say "feats are better", fine.  But don't say, "databook calls it the strongest" (or, more absurdly, the fanbook).  The databook more or less calls both the Rinnegan and MS the strongest doujutsu.  In reality, probably neither are.



It's held as exalted OVER the others. The Rinnegan is referred to as strongest in contest here over the other two. The MS is never given these accolades


----------



## Hexa (Mar 21, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> It's held as exalted OVER the others. The Rinnegan is referred to as strongest in contest here over the other two. The MS is never given these accolades


It's referred to as the more exalted of the other two, which is what it is doubtlessly.  Even if the Rinnegan did _nothing at all_, it would be more exalted than the other two by virtue of the Sage of the Six Paths having the eye.



Lightysnake said:


> The Rinnegan ISN'T haxed up with its better powers? Tell me, when does the Sharingan hold power over life and death?


The Sharingan holds power over _reality_ by the same token.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 21, 2010)

Ra said:


> The sharingan surpass the rinnegan by a mile.
> 
> The sharingan has the following:
> 
> ...


First of all, you didn't list the entirety of the Rinnegan's powers. Secondly, when you do, the Rinnegan's powers far outstrip the Sharingan's.

Stop with the Uchiha fanboying.


----------



## Rabbit and Rose (Mar 21, 2010)

Yes we are serious when we say Sharingan is better than rinnegan
in style
in power
in originality
and versatility


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

Ra said:


> The sharingan surpass the rinnegan by a mile.
> 
> The sharingan has the following:
> 
> ...



Let's be more honest, will we?
The Rinnegan has
Gedo Mazo
Chakra vision
Soul Draining
All the powers of the six paths: Chakra Draining and ninjutsu absorbing, gravity power, Chibaku Tensei, can level a village with one attack, multiple summonings, the power of Demon Realm,  the power to use ANY NINJUTSU...
The power over life and death


----------



## Tipster74743 (Mar 21, 2010)

Hexa said:


> It's referred to as the more exalted of the other two, which what it is doubtlessly.  Even if the Rinnegan did _nothing at all_, it would be more exalted than the other two by virtue of the Sage of the Six Paths having the eye.
> 
> The Sharingan holds power over _reality_ by the same token.



Lol. This.

Hexa is shitting on people and they still are arguing negatively about the Sharingan...

Why would I care about life and death when I can just kill you with Tsukuyomi? Or fool you with Izanagi and then set you aflame with Amaterasu. Or make it so you can't do shit with Susano'o?


----------



## Nagato Sennin (Mar 21, 2010)

If the Sharigan is so powerful why is Pain's moveset restricted in the battledome

oh yeah

Chibaku Tensei

they mad


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

Hexa said:


> It's referred to as the more exalted of the other two, which is what it is doubtlessly.  Even if the Rinnegan did _nothing at all_, it would be more exalted than the other two by virtue of the Sage of the Six Paths having the eye.



You don't think 'exalted' in that context refers to supreme over as well?
It's also not like the Sage just happened to have the Rinnegan and was a strong guy...Given Nagato admitted he's not as good as the Sage...




> The Sharingan holds power over _reality_ by the same token.


And unlike Izanagi, the only limit to the Rinnegan's techniques is the amount of chakra they have...a oneshot technique that briefly and only affects your personal reality does not compare to the guy who can revive a population of an entire hidden village. If Nagato was at full chakra, would he even have been winded?


----------



## Fableized (Mar 21, 2010)

Endurance 117 said:


> If the Sharigan is so powerful why is Pain's moveset restricted in the battledome
> 
> oh yeah
> 
> ...



wow..... because the battledome knows everything..


----------



## Judecious (Mar 21, 2010)

this is funny how you could compare EMS to rikudo sennin rinnengan i mean the guy was god itself 

madara used EMS and failed to destroy the leaf and fought only shodai
while nagato destroyed the village and fought kakashi and other shonobis then fought naruto and 5 summons i think thats prove enough at which doujutsu is better. 
the same nagato admitted that he was no where on the sages lvl


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

Tipster74743 said:


> Lol. This.
> 
> Hexa is shitting on people and they still are arguing negatively about the Sharingan...
> 
> Why would I care about life and death when I can just kill you with Tsukuyomi? Or fool you with Izanagi and then set you aflame with Amaterasu. Or make it so you can't do shit with Susano'o?



Rinnegan. Stronger tool. User of the Rinnegan. Stronger ninja.
Both trump the Tsukuyomi.

and let's point out the stupidity of your post, Tippy:
1. Use Izanagi and tHEN use Amaterasu? WITH WHAT EYES precisely?
2. Ooooh, Susanoo and Amaterasu, so SCAAAAWY. Wow, if only I could absorb th- OH WAIT.

Never mind the Rinnegan's techniques don't wreck your vision and life expectancy.


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 21, 2010)

Endurance 117 said:


> If the Sharigan is so powerful why is Pain's moveset restricted in the battledome
> 
> oh yeah
> 
> ...



bam, he just got tsukuyomi'd. No time for CT


----------



## Nagato Sennin (Mar 21, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> bam, he just got tsukuyomi'd. No time for CT



Pain

Trukuyomi'd


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> bam, he just got tsukuyomi'd. No time for CT



Bam, if he's the stronger ninja with superior eyes, he overcomes it.


----------



## Nagato Sennin (Mar 21, 2010)

Lets see Madara had EMS + Kyuubi and failed to do anything

Pain Destroyed and Revived Konoha

Rikudou Sennin saved the world


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 21, 2010)

Endurance 117 said:


> Lets see Madara had EMS + Kyuubi and failed to do anything
> 
> Pain Destroyed and Revived Konoha
> 
> Rikudou Sennin saved the world



he got owned by a 16 yr old kid with no bloodline, lmfaooo


----------



## Hexa (Mar 21, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> You don't think 'exalted' in that context refers to supreme over as well?


Nah.  That line probably means exactly what is says.  It talks about the Rinnegan being _supreme_ elsewhere and used a word that means _supreme_.  Of coruse, it also talks about the Mangekyou being _supreme_ and uses the same word.



> a oneshot technique that briefly and only affects your personal reality does not compare to the guy who can revive a population of an entire hidden village. If Nagato was at full chakra, would he even have been winded?


Almost surely.  I guess it probably wouldn't have killed him, but his lifespan would reduce like how Shinra Tensei causes a reduction of Nagato's lifespan.  Nagato's hair didn't go gray from lack of chakra, after all.

There's no need to go to almost meaningless fluff statements like "controls life or death".  Say what it is: the Rinnegan allows you to revive a lot of recently dead people.


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> he got handled by a 16 yr old kid with no bloodline, lmfaooo



Sure!
he only just fought a village
And the kid came with lots of allies. And prior knowledge. And prep time. And destroyed one of his bodies before the fight even started. And he couldn't use his strongest body.
And he *beat said kid before Hinata intervened, conveniently ignored by Pain bashers*


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 21, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> Sure!
> he only just fought a village
> And the kid came with lots of allies. And prior knowledge. And prep time. And destroyed one of his bodies before the fight even started. And he couldn't use his strongest body.
> And he *beat said kid before Hinata intervened, conveniently ignored by Pain bashers*



u mean he fought random nobodies?

Who said madara didn't fight a village b4 confronting hashirama?


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 21, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> he got owned by a 16 yr old kid with no bloodline, lmfaooo


I love how dishonest you are. 

Pain didn't get owned. Hell, he BEAT Naruto at one point, and was only beaten by Naruto outsmarting an exhausted God Realm.

Harry, stop fanboying.


----------



## Nagato Sennin (Mar 21, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> u mean he fought random nobodies?
> 
> Who said madara didn't fight a village b4 confronting hashirama?



He + EMS + Kyuubi were outside the Village and got Raped by Shodai.


----------



## Hexa (Mar 21, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> Sure!
> he only just fought a village


It's more like he bombed a village.  And most all of the village survived it.  It was more of an _untold property damage_ sort of thing.

Naruto had a lot of issues too, but at the end of the day, Naruto defeated Pain without sustaining a serious injury.


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

Hexa said:


> Nah.  That line probably means exactly what is says.  It talks about the Rinnegan being _supreme_ elsewhere and used a word that means _supreme_.  Of coruse, it also talks about the Mangekyou being _supreme_ and uses the same word.


And only one is mentioned to be higher than the other in any context. One has been shown as stronger and endlessly spamming its techniques doesn't wreck the eye. Which is better precisely?



> Almost surely.  I guess it probably wouldn't have killed him, but his lifespan would reduce like how Shinra Tensei causes a reduction of Nagato's lifespan.  Nagato's hair didn't go gray from lack of chakra, after all.


Says who? Konan even said "if you use that technique *now* you'll..."



> There's no need to go to almost meaningless fluff statements like "controls life or death".  Say what it is: the Rinnegan allows you to revive a lot of recently dead people.



*The wielder of the Rinnegan has seven powers to his beck and call. Giving off a particularly conspicuous vibe is the Outer Path. With the ability that can only be used by Nagato, the "real body" that manipulates Pain, he has the power to transcend even the concepts of Life and Death!! It consumes a large amount of chakra, but when used, it has the ability to even resurrect those who have met with Death.*

Just consumes a large amount of chakra.


----------



## Judecious (Mar 21, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> u mean he fought random nobodies?
> 
> Who said madara didn't fight a village b4 confronting hashirama?



they fought at the vote and madara+his pet got stomped so stop


----------



## Selva (Mar 21, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> he got owned by a 16 yr old kid with no bloodline, lmfaooo


Are you serious? tell me you're joking !!
omg the double standards in these forums is lulz worthy! Loads of threads are made about "how Naruto defeated the STRONGEST NINJA EVA Pain... it's PnJ"
and now you're saying Pein got owned by Naruto !


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 21, 2010)

Hexa said:


> It's more like he bombed a village.  And most all of the village survived it.  It was more of an _untold property damage_ sort of thing.


...not the argument that Shinra Tensei can't kill anyone again.

_Are we forgetting Tsunade's Jutsu shielded and healed everyone before they could literally be smooshed into a fine paste?_


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 21, 2010)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> I love how dishonest you are.
> 
> Pain didn't get owned. Hell, he BEAT Naruto at one point, and was only beaten by Naruto outsmarting an exhausted God Realm.
> 
> Harry, stop fanboying.



Outsmarted? No. He got overwhelmed. Get off nagato's pussy.




Endurance 117 said:


> He + EMS + Kyuubi were outside the Village and got Raped by Shodai.


you don't rly read the manga very well, do you?

*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

Hexa said:


> It's more like he bombed a village.  And most all of the village survived it.  It was more of an _untold property damage_ sort of thing.
> 
> Naruto had a lot of issues too, but at the end of the day, Naruto defeated Pain without sustaining a serious injury.



No, I mean he was fighting in the village and then bombed it. 

And Naruto had a lot of issues Such as? He was in a physical peak, he arrived with allies there...and oh, yeah, *He lost when Deva was working again*. Remember that? If not for Hinata, Naruto would be done for.


----------



## Judecious (Mar 21, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> Outsmarted? No. He got overwhelmed. Get off nagato's pussy.
> Harry, stop fanboying.
> 
> 
> ...



point that fight was at the vote


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> u mean he fought random nobodies?
> 
> Who said madara didn't fight a village b4 confronting hashirama?



Gee, he was met a distance from Konoha...see anyone else at their battlefield?

And Konoha, which, In Iachi's word 'possesses many strong ninja'= village of nobodies? And Kakashi is a random nobody now?


----------



## Nagato Sennin (Mar 21, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> Outsmarted? No. He got overwhelmed. Get off nagato's pussy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



VOTE, Shodai by himself.. Next


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 21, 2010)

naruto the best said:


> point that fight was at the vote





Lightysnake said:


> Gee, he was met a distance from Konoha...see anyone else at their battlefield?
> 
> And Konoha, which, In Iachi's word 'possesses many strong ninja'= village of nobodies? And Kakashi is a random nobody now?



and where exactly did Naruto vs Pain fight actually end up, smart guys>?

In konoha?


----------



## Judecious (Mar 21, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> and where exactly did Naruto vs Pain fight actually end up, smart guys>?



lol what they were close to konoha
the vote is basically when you are going to the sound, do you understand how far that is 
fail


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> and where exactly did Naruto vs Pain fight actually end up, smart guys>?
> 
> In konoha?



"It doesn't matter that Naruto had every advantage at the start, still lost and needed Hinata to lose and make him go Kyuubi and then his dad to restore his energy, he won anyways dammit!"


----------



## Yagura (Mar 21, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> Bam, if he's the stronger ninja with superior eyes, he overcomes it.





Where was it ever Stated, Shown, or Implied that a Rinnegan user could  overcome Tsukiyomi?


----------



## Hexa (Mar 21, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> And only one is mentioned to be higher than the other in any context. One has been shown as stronger and endlessly spamming its techniques doesn't wreck the eye. Which is better precisely?


Like I said, saying "it has better techniques" is fine.  That I suppose is an okay opinion.  Pretending like the databook proves it is what I'm objecting to.



> Just consumes a large amount of chakra.


That's not what it says.  You inserted a word there.  It says "it consumes a large amount of chakra".  I  suppose he can survive a Rinne Tensei, but it's not without loss beyond just using up chakra.  And, I mean, you missed the caption: "By exchanging his own life, Nagato revived Konoha's dead, who had fallen to the attack...!!"



Lightysnake said:


> No, I mean he was fighting in the village and then bombed it.


He was fighting in the village, but he wasn't doing very well.



> And Naruto had a lot of issues Such as? He was in a physical peak, he arrived with allies there...and oh, yeah, *He lost when Deva was working again*. Remember that? If not for Hinata, Naruto would be done for.


He lost when he tripped over himself nonsensically.  Hinata "saved" him by having him get _mad enough_ at Pain.


----------



## Nagato Sennin (Mar 21, 2010)

Yagura said:


> Where was it ever Stated, Shown, or Implied that a Rinnegan user could ever overcome Tsukiyomi?



Where was it stated that Eye genjutsu works on a Rinnegan user? Exacta


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 21, 2010)

naruto the best said:


> lol what they were close to konoha
> the vote is basically when you are going to the sound, do you understand how far that is
> fail



it's not far. And second your not reading the manga. Or maybe you just don't understand it because it's high level english.


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

Yagura said:


> Where was it ever Stated, Shown, or Implied that a Rinnegan user could ever overcome Tsukiyomi?



Sasuke vs. Itachi.
Zetsu asks how a normal Sharingan could overcome the MS (Killing the "You need MS to beat Tsukuyomi)
Zetsu;s other half: The eyes are merely tools. What it really comes down to is the power of the Shinobi himself. Itachi underestimated Sasuke.

Safe bet if not outright confirmed that Pain is the strongest in Akatsuki, so it comes down to them taking one another there.


----------



## Yagura (Mar 21, 2010)

Endurance 117 said:


> Where was it stated that Eye genjutsu works on a Rinnegan user? Exacta



Where was it stated they don't?


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 21, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> Sasuke vs. Itachi.
> Zetsu asks how a normal Sharingan could overcome the MS (Killing the "You need MS to beat Tsukuyomi)
> Zetsu;s other half: The eyes are merely tools. What it really comes down to is the power of the Shinobi himself. Itachi underestimated Sasuke.
> 
> Safe bet if not outright confirmed that Pain is the strongest in Akatsuki, so it comes down to them taking one another there.



nagato couldn't counter frog song, let alone tsukuyomi.

plz dude, just fucking stop.


----------



## Nagato Sennin (Mar 21, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> it's not far. And second your not reading the manga. Or maybe you just don't understand it because it's high level english.



super cool story bro


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

Hexa said:


> Like I said, saying "it has better techniques" is fine.  That I suppose is an okay opinion.  Pretending like the databook proves it is what I'm objecting to.


Fair enough



> That's not what it says.  You inserted a word there.  It says "it consumes a large amount of chakra".  I  suppose he can survive a Rinne Tensei, but it's not without loss beyond just using up chakra.  And, I mean, you missed the caption: "By exchanging his own life, Nagato revived Konoha's dead, who had fallen to the attack...!!"


I didn't inject it, I meant it as a point. Is there anything stating that the Rinnei Tensei does more than take up a bunch of Chakra? The description doesn't say so at all
Yes, Nagato exchanged his own life...because he'd used a ton of chakra before for his Super ST, his Chibaku Tensei and all the other fighting he did. As I said, Konan said if he used that jutsu *now*, he would die...Nagato was highly drained beforehand, hence why he died to use that technique. It's the same as Kakashi exchanging his life for Choji's. Does Kamui normally kill him if he's fresh?


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

Yagura said:


> Where was it stated they don't?



Prove to the affirmative. Don't ask for proof of the negative


----------



## Judecious (Mar 21, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> nagato couldn't counter frog song, let alone tsukuyomi.
> 
> plz dude, just fucking stop.



tsukuyomi affects 1 person while frog song affect multiple 
frog song is a better genjutsu


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> nagato couldn't counter frog song, let alone tsukuyomi.
> 
> plz dude, just fucking stop.



That paralyzes the body as well as the mind.

Tsukuyomi comes down to the power of the Shinobi themselves


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 21, 2010)

Endurance 117 said:


> super cool story bro



yet you can't prove me wrong.


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 21, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> That paralyzes the body as well as the mind.
> 
> Tsukuyomi comes down to the power of the Shinobi themselves



genjutsu = genjutsu. Can you at least understand that?

Tsukuyomi = strongest genjutsu.


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> genjutsu = genjutsu. Can you at least understand that?
> 
> Tsukuyomi = strongest genjutsu.



Prove it.

Tsukuyomi affects one at a time. Frog Song affects whoever hears it. Most doujutsu affect only the mind. Frog Song paralyzes the whole body as well


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 21, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> genjutsu = genjutsu. Can you at least understand that?
> 
> Tsukuyomi = strongest genjutsu.


Wrong. Dear god, stop fanboying.

Frog Song was called the strongest genjutsu on a higher level than what humans can manage. Harry Balzac...ugh.


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 21, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> Prove it.
> 
> Tsukuyomi affects one at a time. Frog Song affects whoever hears it. Most doujutsu affect only the mind. Frog Song paralyzes the whole body as well



wrong, kakashi told everyone to not look into itachi's eyes, otherwise your finished. That suggests multiple ppl.



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Wrong. Dear god, stop fanboying.
> 
> Frog Song was called the strongest genjutsu on a higher level than what humans can manage. Harry Balzac...ugh.



Sharingan genjutsu > Regular genjutsu, and please read the fucking manga.


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> wrong, kakashi told everyone to not look into itachi's eyes, otherwise your finished. That suggests multiple ppl.


No it doesn't. It means one of them would be Genjutsu'd and since he can do one a second...



> Sharingan genjutsu > Regular genjutsu, and please read the fucking manga.



Goodie. That's how Sharingan genjutsu works, too


----------



## Hexa (Mar 21, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> Yes, Nagato exchanged his own life...because he'd used a ton of chakra before for his Super ST, his Chibaku Tensei and all the other fighting he did. As I said, Konan said if he used that jutsu *now*, he would die...Nagato was highly drained beforehand, hence why he died to use that technique. It's the same as Kakashi exchanging his life for Choji's. Does Kamui normally kill him if he's fresh?


Sure, if he wasn't already tired, he wouldn't have died after using the Rinne Tensei.  His lifespan would probably be hugely shortened, though.  A big Shinra Tensei has the effect of shortening Nagato's lifespan.  Rinne Tensei is undoubtedly going to do the same.  

The fact that it isn't _necessarily_ a suicide move doesn't mean it does no damage to Nagato, of course.  I mean, come on, the jutsu causes the guy's hair to become gray.


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

Hexa said:


> Sure, if he wasn't already tired, he wouldn't have died after using the Rinne Tensei.  His lifespan would probably be hugely shortened, though.  A big Shinra Tensei has the effect of shortening Nagato's lifespan.  Rinne Tensei is undoubtedly going to do the same.


Chibaku Tensei apparently didn't have the same affect. Super Shinra Tensei is the only one commented on to shorten his life. The fanbook only says the Rinei Tensei costs a lot of chakra (And Nagato apparently has enormous chakra reserves), not that it shortens his lifespan



> The fact that it isn't _necessarily_ a suicide move doesn't mean it does no damage to Nagato, of course.  I mean, come on, the jutsu causes the guy's hair to become gray.


Yes, presumably because he was exchanging his life right there. Given Konan recognized the jutsu he was using right there suggests she's seen Rinei Tensei before


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 21, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> No it doesn't. It means one of them would be Genjutsu'd and since he can do one a second...



He didn't even know the effects of tsukuyomi . In that fight he figured 72 hrs = 1 second in the real world.



> Goodie. That's how Sharingan genjutsu works, too



Sharingan genjutsu > Jiraiyas genjutsu, hope it's clear now.


----------



## Judecious (Mar 21, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> Sharingan genjutsu > Jiraiyas genjutsu, hope it's clear now.



ma and pas genjutsu's not jiraiya's


----------



## Yagura (Mar 21, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> Prove to the affirmative. Don't ask for proof of the negative


Actually, I asked first, so you should go tell that to him.

Nonetheless, untill we have proof that sight-based Genjutsu doesn't work on the Rinnegan we can only assume that they do, especially in Tsukiyomi's case.


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

Yagura said:


> Actually, I asked first, so you should go tell that to him.
> 
> Untill we have proof that sight-based Genjutsu doesn't work on a Rinnegan User we can only assume that it does, especially in Tsukiyomi's case.



You're making a claim it does. I provided evidence on why they can get out of it.

Kindly remember the point in the manga on what Zetsu says about the eyes being tools and it comes down to shinobi alone.


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 21, 2010)

naruto the best said:


> ma and pas genjutsu's not jiraiya's





k stop arguing.


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

I forgot Zetsu's seen Frog Song.


----------



## Judecious (Mar 21, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> k stop arguing.



tell me does zestu know about frog song


----------



## Hexa (Mar 21, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> Chibaku Tensei apparently didn't have the same affect. Super Shinra Tensei is the only one commented on to shorten his life. The fanbook only says the Rinei Tensei costs a lot of chakra (And Nagato apparently has enormous chakra reserves), not that it shortens his lifespan


Chibaku Tensei probably had exactly the same effect.  Using the jutsu caused Nagato to cough up blood, get a nose bleed and pass out.  Konan doesn't need to constantly say "you're shortening your lifespan".   If a "push" causes a shortening of Nagato's life, a "pull" at the same power level does as well.



> Yes, presumably because he was exchanging his life right there. Given Konan recognized the jutsu he was using right there suggests she's seen Rinei Tensei before


That's not really what it suggests.  It suggests Konan knows about Rinne Tensei.  She could know about it because she has seen Nagato use the jutsu before--or Nagato could have just talked about his powers once in the 20-30 years they've been together.


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

Hexa said:


> Chibaku Tensei probably had exactly the same effect.  Using the jutsu caused Nagato to cough up blood, get a nose bleed and pass out.  Konan doesn't need to constantly say "you're shortening your lifespan".   If a "push" causes a shortening of Nagato's life, a "pull" at the same power level does as well.



We didn't see the effect SST had on Nagato, but SST rendered God Realm unusuable in terms of powers for an extended time. Chibaku Tensei had way less damage to him there in that respect. 



> That's not really what it suggests.  It suggests Konan knows about Rinne Tensei.  She could know about it because she has seen Nagato use the jutsu before--or Nagato could have just talked about his powers once in the 20-30 years they've been together.


She recognized it from the seals he was making. He didn't say he was going to use it until after she treid to stop him.


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 21, 2010)

naruto the best said:


> tell me does zestu know about frog song



he heard tsukuyomi trumps all from Masashi Kishimoto.


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

Does he know about Frog Song. Yes or no?


----------



## Judecious (Mar 21, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> he heard tsukuyomi trumps all.



from where tho


----------



## Turrin (Mar 21, 2010)

> Tsukuyomi = strongest genjutsu.


No its not. Those statements were obviously hyperbola. Since Amaterasu was called the Strongest Ninjutsu and we know that isn't true as Susano'o among other things are way stronger then it. Also we know Tsukuyomi isn't the strongest Genjutsu as Mugen Tsukuyomi is obviously stronger then it. And its pretty foolish to say Tsukuyomi is any better then Izanagi or Frog Song.


----------



## Obito (Mar 21, 2010)

Well, to be honest they're both just different. They give different styles of fighting and I think measuring which is better can't be done based on what we've seen from the Manga thus far.

It completely depends on the persons conditions being raised, their natural born skills, their attitude (which generally comes from the fore mentioned.) and much more.

I think that even the Byakugan could be better depending on who has it. As I said before, it just depends. Imagine someone such Hiruzen Sarutobi with Rinnegan, Sharingan, or Byakugan.


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 21, 2010)

Turrin said:


> No its not. Those statements were obviously hyperbola. Since Amaterasu was called the Strongest Ninjutsu and we know that isn't true as Susano'o among other things are way stronger then it. Also we know Tsukuyomi isn't the strongest Genjutsu as Mugen Tsukuyomi is obviously stronger then it. And its pretty foolish to say Tsukuyomi is any better then Izanagi or Frog Song.



stop trolling. Mugen tsukuyomi is amplified by Juubi, after all it's still "tsukuyomi" that alone should tell u something.


----------



## Milliardo (Mar 21, 2010)

Obito said:


> Imagine someone such Hiruzen Sarutobi with Rinnegan, Sharingan, or Byakugan.


 that would be scary.


----------



## Hexa (Mar 21, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> We didn't see the effect SST had on Nagato, but SST rendered God Realm unusuable in terms of powers for an extended time. Chibaku Tensei had way less damage to him there in that respect.


There was a decent amount of time I suppose in between him using the jutsu and him using another Shinra Tensei.  And there is a scene where Deva attacks Naruto in taijutsu (getting destroyed easily, of course) instead of using Shinra Tensei in between the Chibaku Tensei and his next Shinra Tensei.

But that's beside the point really.  We know one of his Rinnegan's techniques--Shinra Tensei--drains his life (at least at some level of chakra use).  We see Chibaku Tensei cause serious physical damage to Nagato.  We see Rinne Tensei _turning Nagato's hair gray_ (and, again, more coughing up blood).  Circumstantailly, it's a pretty set case.



> She recognized it from the seals he was making. He didn't say he was going to use it until after she treid to stop him.


Nagato says "Gedou: Rinne Tensei" before she recognizes the jutsu.


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

Hexa said:


> There was a decent amount of time I suppose in between him using the jutsu and him using another Shinra Tensei.  And there is a scene where Deva attacks Naruto in taijutsu (getting destroyed easily, of course) instead of using Shinra Tensei in between the Chibaku Tensei and his next Shinra Tensei.


He was in combat almost constantly from those points. And 'getting destroyed easily' in Taijutsu? Deva was driving Naruto back until he went Sage Mode and used superior strength and this when Deva was weakened



> But that's beside the point really.  We know one of his Rinnegan's techniques--Shinra Tensei--drains his life (at least at some level of chakra use).  We see Chibaku Tensei cause serious physical damage to Nagato.  We see Rinne Tensei _turning Nagato's hair gray_ (and, again, more coughing up blood).  Circumstantailly, it's a pretty set case.


A trickle of blood when he was already not at his best doesn't equate to massive weakening given he said he could've just made another Chibaku Tensei in his own words.

In swift succession, all of these techniques plus a ton of others are going to do damage. 



> Nagato says "Gedou: Rinne Tensei" before she recognizes the jutsu.



You're right, my error on that front. 
notice though that Konan says "If he uses it now with these chakra levels..." 
She's not worried about the technique itself, just his chakra level while using it.


----------



## Turrin (Mar 21, 2010)

> stop trolling. Mugen tsukuyomi is amplified by Juubi, after all it's still "tsukuyomi" that alone should tell u something.


Just like how Rarikiri is just an amplified Chidori yet its considered a different jutsu by the author.

Plus i like how you don't address the fact that Amaterasu was also called the strongest Ninjutsu by Zetsu which is obviously a bunch of bullshit as Itachi showed a stronger ninjutsu the very next chapter. So your the one who should stop trollin bud.


----------



## Hexa (Mar 21, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> He was in combat almost constantly from those points. And 'getting destroyed easily' in Taijutsu? Deva was driving Naruto back until he went Sage Mode and used superior strength and this when Deva was weakened


I meant after the Chibaku Tensei, like I said. [naruto=441]12[/naruto]He was just destroyed.


> A trickle of blood when he was already not at his best doesn't equate to massive weakening given he said he could've just made another Chibaku Tensei in his own words.


Not quite:​  We didn't see what happened with that since it cut away to Naruto and Yondaime.  He very well may have enlarged it.


> In swift succession, all of these techniques plus a ton of others are going to do damage.


It's not just _damage_ with Rinne Tensei.  Nagato's hair literally turns gray.



> You're right, my error on that front.
> notice though that Konan says "If he uses it now with these chakra levels..."
> She's not worried about the technique itself, just his chakra level while using it.


Worrying that the technique shortens Nagato's life is a bit silly when the chakra cost is going to kill him.


----------



## Yagura (Mar 21, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> You're making a claim it does. I provided evidence on why they can get out of it.
> 
> Kindly remember the point in the manga on what Zetsu says about the eyes being tools and it comes down to shinobi alone.





> "NINJUTSU; KEKKEI GENKAI; Tsukuyomi
> User: Uchiha Itachi
> Supplementary; Close range; Rank: none
> 
> ...



Referring to Tsukiyomi, The databook _does_ back up my claim.


----------



## chibbi-kitsune (Mar 21, 2010)

Hexa said:


> There was a decent amount of time I suppose in between him using the jutsu and him using another Shinra Tensei.  And there is a scene where Deva attacks Naruto in taijutsu (getting destroyed easily, of course) instead of using Shinra Tensei in between the Chibaku Tensei and his next Shinra Tensei.
> 
> But that's beside the point really.  We know one of his Rinnegan's techniques--Shinra Tensei--drains his life (at least at some level of chakra use).  We see Chibaku Tensei cause serious physical damage to Nagato.  We see Rinne Tensei _turning Nagato's hair gray_ (and, again, more coughing up blood).  Circumstantailly, it's a pretty set case.
> 
> Nagato says "Gedou: Rinne Tensei" before she recognizes the jutsu.


Hey does anyone think the whole shorten his life thing only applies because he is crippled to the point that any over use of chakra would bring him closer to death.  The way he spammed all the other Rinnegan jutsu makes me believe he would be fine if he wasn't crippled.


----------



## chibbi-kitsune (Mar 21, 2010)

Yagura said:


> Referring to Tsukiyomi, The databook _does_ back up my claim.


Uchiha descend from Rikudo and so does Nagato since he has Rinnegan.  Same blood.


----------



## Turrin (Mar 21, 2010)

> Referring to Tsukiyomi, The databook does back up my claim


You will notice that the DB is asking a question and thus isn't stating it as a certain fact that only Uchiha can break Tsukuyomi. Tsukuyomi is one of the most overrated of all techniques. Wait till Sasuke has it and every person breaks it like nothing.


----------



## Yagura (Mar 21, 2010)

chibbi-kitsune said:


> Uchiha descend from Rikudo and so does Nagato since he has Rinnegan.  Same blood.





> *Concurrently, the only ones who can defeat Tsukuyomi are Sharingan possessors*




Even so, if I went by that logic, that'd mean Neji and Tsunade be able to break it right? both are Descendant's of Rikudo.


Either way, why do you think it Implied that only Sasuke, Itachi's closely blood related Brother would have the ability to break Tsukiyomi?


----------



## katan667 (Mar 21, 2010)

LOL, if sharingan would be better than Rinnegan, it wouldn't need side effects for its MS. and if EMS is better than Rinnegan, it wouldn't just stay locked at only a couple of jutsus.

Rinnegan is so much better because it can even control life or death, something which even MADARA wanted Pain to do it for him when the time is right. (Im guessing if he dies from the Jyuubi or some shit).

And if you wanna talk about feats, Pain didn't sissy down and take orders from Madara because hes scared of the almighty EMS. It hasn't been proved nor disproved so we should all stfu and stop fapping over things that hasn't been said or explained clearly.

Atleast Rikudou Sennin had the rinnegan and he saved the world by beating the jyuubi. That itself is such a big feat. What did the sharingan users do? Control bijuus? Mindfuck people? Get owned by the 1st hokage?

it has even been explained that sharingan and byakugan were descendants of rinnegan. which means rinnegan is so called its "father" in terms of eye bloodlines. How the hell can something that descended from a superior eyeline be much stronger?

Seriously guys, i'm not an extreme fanboy of anything but its so plain obvious that rinnegan is better.


----------



## chibbi-kitsune (Mar 21, 2010)

Yagura said:


> Even so, if I went by that logic, that'd mean Neji and Tsunade be able to break it right? both are Descendant's of Rikudo.
> 
> 
> Either way, why do you think it Implied that only Sasuke, Itachi's closely blood related Brother would have the ability to break Tsukiyomi?


  The difference being Nagato possesses a dojutsu of greater power and the same blood.  Sasuke is mentioned because he is the only other known person at the time with similar eye power and blood relation.  Where was Neji stated to be a descendant of Rikudo?


----------



## Shinkirou (Mar 21, 2010)

As has been said, while the Rinnegan should be better, and in theory is, the sharingan has so much going for it and so many feats showing how incredibly powerful it is that it simply outweighs just about everything the Rinnegans shown. 

Think of it like this. Say the manga suddenly says the Sai is greater than Naruto, and then he shows some feats that while incredibly strong, simply pale in comparison to the armada of feats shown by Naruto throughout he manga. That's essentially whats happened. The Rinnegan shows up, is said to be the best, shows some pretty good powers then disappears. While good and all, the Rinnegans few feats along with its claim of superiority is simply outweighed by the sheer mass of stuff and feats of power that the sharingan has shown.

So while it's theoretically stronger, it just hasn't had to chance to fully prove it. That and the issue itself is partially subjective. Some things may seem stronger to some than it does to others.


----------



## Yagura (Mar 21, 2010)

chibbi-kitsune said:


> The difference being Nagato possesses a dojutsu of greater power and the same blood.  Sasuke is mentioned because he is the only other known person at the time with similar eye power and blood relation.



The only _"thing"_ official on the subject is that only a Sharingan Wielder of close-blood relation to the user of Tsukiyomi, have the ability to break it.

Everything else is pure speculation.


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

Yagura said:


> Referring to Tsukiyomi, The databook _does_ back up my claim.



Hey, remember when Danzo and Bee broke it?


----------



## Yagura (Mar 21, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> Hey, remember when Danzo and Bee broke it?



How do you know those were even Tsukiyomi?


Besides, Im talking about Itachi's.


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

Yagura said:


> How do you know that was even Tsukiyomi?
> 
> 
> Besides, Im talking about Itachi's Tsukiyomi.



On Bee? MS Genjutsu? Check. Inverted color scheme? Check. Sasuke clutches his eye like it's pained after? A check. 

On danzo? Well, gee, given it's an MS Genjutsu that Danzo then derides as a pathetic Tsukuyomi...

 Isn't Tsukuyomi PERIOD supposed to be unbreakable? Yes it is. I don't see the databook differentiating between the two. Ergo, it's been rather overwritten. Pain possesses the superior doujutsu. And he's the superior in power. why would he be incapable of breaking it?


----------



## Yagura (Mar 21, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> Isn't Tsukuyomi PERIOD supposed to be unbreakable? Yes it is. I don't see the databook differentiating between the two. Ergo, it's been rather overwritten. Pain possesses the superior doujutsu. And he's the superior in power. why would he be incapable of breaking it?



Sorry, I should have specified sooner that I was referring to Itachi's Tsukiyomi not Sasuke's  underdeveloped variants.


On that hand, I don't see how Nagato'd be able to break Itachi's Full-fledged Instantaneous Tsukiyomi with out the official "Sharingan-User Blood Relation rule".


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

Yagura said:


> Sorry, I should have specified sooner that I was referring to Itachi's Tsukiyomi not Sasuke's  underdeveloped variants.
> 
> 
> On that hand, I don't see how Nagato'd be able to break Itachi's Full-fledged Instantaneous Tsukiyomi with out the official "Sharingan-User Blood Relation rule".



You can't have it both ways. What you posted did not specify it was limited to Itachi's...which Sasuke was able to break without an MS, which Zetsu figured to be impossible at first.

They share a blood connection here. And superior eyes plus stronger shinobi equals broken Tsukuyomi.


----------



## sasutachi (Mar 21, 2010)

this scene tells every thing about power level,but rinnegan fans cant accept it.


----------



## Soul (Mar 21, 2010)

The Sharingan has showed more abilities than the Rinnegan; that's it.


----------



## Judecious (Mar 21, 2010)

sasutachi said:


> this scene tells every thing about power level,but rinnegan fans cant accept it.



and what can he do again, he has no offensive power


----------



## vagnard (Mar 21, 2010)

Um. It's not so simple. 

Yes. Nagato was stronger than all sharingan users we have seen. (the only exception could be Madara's prime)

But it's obvious to anyone with a little amount of intelligence that Sasuke will be a lot stronger than Nagato by the end of the manga (given he will fight on par with an equal or stronger version than the guy who defeated Nagato)

Naruto won't train to defeat a weaker guy than the guy who defeated previously. Specially when the other guy it's a lot more important than Nagato plotwise. 

So Sasuke's EMS will be stronger than Nagato's Rinnegan. 

Some people will use Rikudo Sennin as reference. But we must remember he was both "eyes" and "body". So it isn't a fair comparisson. 

The ability of the sharingan to evolve according to the plot makes it the strongest doujutsu in the manga at the end.


----------



## Odoriko (Mar 21, 2010)

They're most probably denying the truth.


----------



## katan667 (Mar 21, 2010)

This is stupid, asking a question that will only give replies that are biased for each individual since they like either one of those 2 choices. I realised that there is no stopping idiots in this forum so I might aswell just stop trying.


----------



## Sasuke` (Mar 21, 2010)

Well, Madara said Sasuke will be stronger than Nagato.. So Wouldn't that mean Sharingan > rinnengan? And let's not be fools here, Sasuke WILL be stronger than Nagato.

I thought the way for an "almighty" eye to be introduced was done terribly, the mere fact that a body got hit by a konohamaru rasengan made me lol and nearly cry at the same time. IMO, it's all hype until we see it again.


----------



## Hokage (Mar 21, 2010)

We know that the sharingan is strong because we have seen with some of the finest sharingan users in the Uchiha's history in action. Unfortunately we can't say the same about Rinnegan because we saw it in action in just 1 occassion and with just 1 person (Nagato) who was sick. Nagato could have been an excellent Rinnegan user or a Tenten with Rinnegan. We will never know that because there is no one to compare him to. 

I guess everyone would see sharingan as lame if there was just one sharingan user in the entire Naruto story and he happened to be a rookie with 1 tomoe. On the other hand sharingan would be hyped to the sky if that only sharingan user was Madara Uchiha with a fully functional EMS.


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Mar 21, 2010)

Of course the Rinnegan is better. 

For those who are saying Sharingan has shown more abilities...that's just wrong. The Rinnegan grants its user Shinra Tensei, Gedou Mazou, Chibaku Tensei, Chakra-Absorption, Super Durability, Soul-Ripping, Soul Revival, Five Elements Mastery, Insane Chakra Levels, etc...

Madara was of course stronger than Nagato, but only in his prime, and it was merely because he was better at using the Sharingan than Nagato using the Rinnegan.

It's not the tool, but how you use it that matters.


----------



## Scizor (Mar 21, 2010)

The sharingan has Kishi on its side, for that, it beats the rinnegan


----------



## Adagio (Mar 21, 2010)

The fact that the one Uchiha who reached the pinnacle of Sharingan evolution (Madara) wants to gain the Rinnegan just shows that even he acknowledges its superiority  I don't get why Uchiha fans are in denial. 
The last chapter should have been the metaphorical nail in the coffin


----------



## Hokage (Mar 21, 2010)

Atlantic Shinobi said:


> Of course the Rinnegan is better.
> 
> For those who are saying Sharingan has shown more abilities...that's just wrong. The Rinnegan grants its user Shinra Tensei, Gedou Mazou, Chibaku Tensei, Chakra-Absorption, Super Durability, Soul-Ripping, Soul Revival, Five Elements Mastery, Insane Chakra Levels, etc...
> 
> ...



My point exactly.


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Mar 21, 2010)

Hokage said:


> We know that the sharingan is strong because we have seen with some of the finest sharingan users in the Uchiha's history in action. Unfortunately we can't say the same about Rinnegan because we saw it in action in just 1 occassion and with just 1 person (Nagato) who was sick. Nagato could have been an excellent Rinnegan user or a Tenten with Rinnegan. We will never know that because there is no one to compare him to.


Nagato was sick? Page please.



> I guess everyone would see sharingan as lame if there was just one sharingan user in the entire Naruto story and he happened to be a rookie with 1 tomoe. On the other hand sharingan would be hyped to the sky if that only sharingan user was Madara Uchiha with a fully functional EMS.


So you are saying Pein is = to a 1 tomoe sharingan user? Got it.
But seriously, I understand what you are saying, but the problem is you knew that before initiating the claim of Rinegan > Sharingan. You knew that Sharingan had more showings, thus more oppurtunities for users to show it's power. However despite all that you, clearly made the effort to post teh Rinegan > Sharingan.

You work with what you got, plain and simple. And So far they're has been only two Rinegan users, Nagato and Rindoku, and Rindoku wouldn't be the best repensentation of the Rinegan, as he he had the ultimate body to match, and the Jubi inside him to push him to god level. Thus Nagato would be the best respensentation of the Rinegan, as his power is strictly dirived from it, as with most of the Uchiha. 

And then I ask again, Nagato was Sick?


----------



## Mio (Mar 21, 2010)

Cripple Madara with just his Space/Time jutsu alone would solo Nagato.


----------



## Adagio (Mar 21, 2010)

Just to point out ^ Rikkudou was godly prior to Juubi sealing due to the sole fact that he was able to seal it.


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Mar 21, 2010)

Adagio said:


> The fact that the one Uchiha who reached the pinnacle of Sharingan evolution (Madara) wants to gain the Rinnegan just shows that even he acknowledges its superiority  I don't get why Uchiha fans are in denial.
> The last chapter should have been the metaphorical nail in the coffin



Precisely.

Itachi himself stated that Madara's eyes are well and at full operating power. But, he does need the Rinnegan for the upcoming Ninja War, does he not? Proves Rinnegan is better than even the EMS.

Madara just had those absurdly high and abnormally sinister chakra levels, even worse than the Kyubi's, that's why he was so powerful. It's not that his Kekkei Genkai wasn't inferior to Nagato's - his combat skill and ability were just probably a lot higher, and his chakra levels probably were a decisive factor in him being stronger too.

Even if the Rinnegan is simply required for reviving someone, or controlling the Gedou Mazou (which I seriously doubt, why should Sasuke get EMS + Rinnegan? ), I still think Rinnegan is better until EMS actually shows some stuff.


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Mar 21, 2010)

Adagio said:


> The fact that the one Uchiha who reached the pinnacle of Sharingan evolution (Madara) wants to gain the Rinnegan just shows that even he acknowledges its superiority  I don't get why Uchiha fans are in denial.
> The last chapter should have been the metaphorical nail in the coffin



Uh. For one Madara doesn't acknowledge himself having the EMS anymore, and second didn't Madara said he was making a collection of eyes? 

He wants to collect the Rinegan, but that does not mean a thing, considering he has about 100 pair of sharingans on display. Madara is simply adding to his collection.

And didn't Madara already tell pain his motive. He wants to restore SHARINGAN to it's true power.


Another argument destroyed by Cannon.


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Mar 21, 2010)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> He wants to restore SHARINGAN to it's true power.



By using the Rinnegan's power. 

Like how Sasuke said he wants to destroy Naruto using his full powers, but is ironically going to do it using Itachi's own and original powers.


----------



## Panos (Mar 21, 2010)

Of course Sharingan is better.


----------



## Sasuke_Bateman (Mar 21, 2010)

Adagio said:


> The fact that the one Uchiha who reached the pinnacle of Sharingan evolution (Madara) wants to gain the Rinnegan just shows that even he acknowledges its superiority  I don't get why Uchiha fans are in denial.
> The last chapter should have been the metaphorical nail in the coffin



Madara wanted Shisui's eye as well before he even mention the rinnegan. I'm guessing that means Shisui's eye >> two rinnegans


----------



## Euraj (Mar 21, 2010)

Quite serious.

Seriously in denial.


----------



## MSAL (Mar 21, 2010)

Being the strongest in pure destructive power does not mean that it is the best overall.

Rinnegan only appears in the eyes of a person every so often and it depends on the power of that person on how much of the potential of the Rinngan is used.

The Sharingan is actually more practical to use. Its base abilities like copying and prediction are very useful in the small scale combat that ninja actually take part in, making it more practical.

The Rinngan is more useful for large scale wars.

The Sharingan is constantly evolving.


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Mar 21, 2010)

Atlantic Shinobi said:


> Precisely.
> 
> Itachi himself stated that Madara's eyes are well and at full operating power. But, he does need the Rinnegan for the upcoming Ninja War, does he not? Proves Rinnegan is better than even the EMS.


Madara stated he is a shadow of his former self on multiple occasions. 


Even Tsuchikage stated "AS POWERFUL AS YOU ARE, YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO EXECUTE ANY PLAN WITHOUT A HITCH" 


This very much imply that a Prime Madara, would not need to hide behind any men, or the shadows, he would essentially be able to do what the fuck he wanted to when he wanted to.





> Madara just had those absurdly high and abnormally sinister chakra levels, even worse than the Kyubi's, that's why he was so powerful. It's not that his Kekkei Genkai wasn't inferior to Nagato's - his combat skill and ability were just probably a lot higher, and his chakra levels probably were a decisive factor in him being stronger too.



No Madara was a Uchiha, his powers mainly derived from the sharingan. 
Lots of people have combat skill and abilities higher than Nagato, the guy is a crippled. The Rinegan is what made him a competive player, the same thing goes for Uchiha Madara. If it was simple as natural abilities, Madara still has those, his strong chakara is why he is still alive to this day as he stated.



Describe your definition of natural abilities. 



> Even if the Rinnegan is simply required for reviving someone, or controlling the Gedou Mazou (which I seriously doubt, why should Sasuke get EMS + Rinnegan? ), I still think Rinnegan is better until EMS actually shows some stuff.


Actually I would argue that the MS combine with the basic Sharingan is better than the Rinegan overall, considering that is is more restricted to battle. 

Susano is more practical and more proficient than any Rinegan offensive ability Nagato displayed. 

Hell MS allows a person to control the stongest biju.


----------



## monaug5 (Mar 21, 2010)

I am sure the sharingan can do more things...


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Mar 21, 2010)

Atlantic Shinobi said:


> By using the Rinnegan's power.


Oh Atlantic Shinobi still using that lol logic of yours to argue with the big boys ha? How many times have I told you that, if you do not have manga evidence to support your claim then don't say or suggest it? Do you have any idea what Madara intends to do with the Rinegan or his sharingan collection, and is not using the biju as well? 

Better yet, tell me why Sasuke is so important to his plans, since you seem all knowing? 



> Like how Sasuke said he wants to destroy Naruto using his full powers, but is ironically going to do it using Itachi's own and original powers.



Actually that would just be Sasuke's own powers, as it is not if Itachi is augementing his speed, chakara etc. etc. Into himself as well. Did I here any complaints of Madara's power being a combination of his and izuna's right?

I guess Kakashi power is the combine power of obito and Kakashi, despite Kakashi developing a full and eventually MS himself right?

I guess Hachibi isn't killerbee's power right?


----------



## Scizor (Mar 21, 2010)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Madara stated he is a shadow of his former self on multiple occasions.
> 
> 
> Even Tsuchikage stated "AS POWERFUL AS YOU ARE, YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO EXECUTE ANY PLAN WITHOUT A HITCH"
> ...





IpHr0z3nI said:


> Oh Atlantic Shinobi still using that lol logic of yours to argue with the big boys ha? How many times have I told you that, if you do not have manga evidence to support your claim then don't say or suggest it? Do you have any idea what Madara intends to do with the Rinegan or his sharingan collection, and is not using the biju as well?
> 
> Better yet, tell me why Sasuke is so important to his plans, since you seem all knowing?
> 
> ...




Y am I not quoted?


----------



## Adagio (Mar 21, 2010)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Uh. For one Madara doesn't acknowledge himself having the EMS anymore, and second didn't Madara said he was making a collection of eyes?
> 
> He wants to collect the Rinegan, but that does not mean a thing, considering he has about 100 pair of sharingans on display. Madara is simply adding to his collection.
> 
> ...



If Madara doesn't acknowledge the fact that he has EMS anymore, why has he not tried to restore it in any way?
Also, he said he likes to keep a good stock of Sharingan eyes, but when he was talking about the Rinnegan, he seemed dead serious. The Rinnegan is pivotal to his plan. 
What canon have you supplied sorry? The page you supplied was rendered void the second Madara voiced the entirety of the Moon's Eye Plan to the Kage's.. he wants to become complete, not just restore the Sharingan. 
To become the Jinchuuriki of the Juubi you need to be similar to Rikkudou. I wonder what he'd need for that? 
Another note I'd add. 
The fact that the Elder Brother, son of Rikkudou possessed some form of the Rinnegan, but not the Sharingan, clearly shows that the Sharingan is just a diluted, corrupted form of the Rinnegan.


----------



## Sniffers (Mar 21, 2010)

The Sharingan is more important to the story as it has been around way longer and 2 important characters (Sasuke and Kakashi) have it. The final villain also has a Sharingan and attempts to gain the Sharingan's true power rather than pursue the Rinnegan's power.

These simple observations make it very likely that the Sharingan is ultimately better. Though maybe the Sharingan's true power is forming into the Rinnegan, in which case the question doesn't need to be asked.


No matter which turns out stronger though.. it doesn't really matter to me anyway..


----------



## Closet Pervert (Mar 21, 2010)

But Itachi is so pretty and calm and collected, so yes Sharingan must is the best!


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Mar 21, 2010)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Oh Atlantic Shinobi still using that lol logic of yours to argue with the big boys ha? How many times have I told you that, if you do not have manga evidence to support your claim then don't say or suggest it? Do you have any idea what Madara intends to do with the Rinegan or his sharingan collection, and is not using the biju as well?
> 
> Better yet, tell me why Sasuke is so important to his plans, since you seem all knowing?
> 
> ...



Big boys? If I'm not wrong, you're just a kid. 

No one is complaining about Madara's power, because he HAS already taken Izuna's power as his own. Sasuke has not taken Itachi's yet and yet still calls it 'part of his own power'. 

I don't know what it would do, or for what purpose Madara would use it, but he does need it. I also said Rinnegan is only better until EMS shows some stuff which makes it sound uber. 

Actually, I take it back: EMS is probably better. We still HAVE to see what it can do.

Oh, and I'm not all-knowing, I'm just smart.


----------



## αce (Mar 21, 2010)

Rinnegan>Sharingan.



But how many people in the Naruverse know about EMS? 3? Jiraiya didn't.
I'll hold judgement on EMS until I actually see what it's capable of.


----------



## dark messiah verdandi (Mar 21, 2010)

This thread is made on a faulty foundation, thus only brings arguements.

It is QUITE hard to compare two related, yet vastly different jutsu because of their functions. basically this is like asking "what is better? a hammer or a screw-driver?"
the natural answer is  "at what?" the same applies for the rin'negan/sharingan.

The fact is, the sharingan was CREATED simply because The rin'negan lacked the necessary qualities that RS needed to capture the juubi.

 He needed a hypnotic suggestion that could not be broken, even by the most powerful creature. He needed an attack that couldn't be shaken off no matter what. he needed a defense that could absorb any attack, and he needed a sealing method that could trap the greatest of beasts within him indefinately.
that is why the "sharingan" was invented. A genetic therapy jutsu that would change his already seemingly omnipotent eyes into something even greater. we saw the effects of his mugen tsukuyomi apon the eye of the juubi.

so we can't say one is better or worse in that aspect since they are simply two halves to one whole. the complement each other perfectly. infinate learning capacity with infinite potential. the control of control of distance with the control of direction. 
In fact, if the rin'negan is actually the last doujutsu gained from the awakening of EMS, then we will see something FAR more powerful than previously expected.


Another problem in rating the two against each other is the showings. Nagato had been emanciated by the demon statue of the heretics path, thus gained far more power than previously possible. when he was using the rin'negan as a teenager, the output seemed FAR weaker. That was because his chakra levels were not initially that high. Rokudou pein was putting out bijuu levels of chakra, and that wasn't how he was before he was impaled by the chakra metals of gedou mazou.

Now, if you take away the RETARDED chakra amount gained from his symbiosis, and then restrict his power usage to one at a time, rather than six, the rin'negan's combat applications take a BIG dive. the six paths become powerful, but not INVINCIBLE.
one wrong usage of the rin'negan, and the user dies. just llike with the sharingan.

In fact, if we were to hypothetically give the rin'negan to an uchiha, that would show how it would be used by one person. one power at a time, at far lower amounts of raw force.
that is most likely how the rin'negan was used by rikudou sennin.

the rin'negan is for sure FAR better than the three tomoe sharingan, but against the Eien mangekyou sharingan, it becomes equal yet wholly different.


----------



## Bentham (Mar 21, 2010)

dark messiah verdandi said:


> This thread is made on a faulty foundation, thus only brings arguements.
> 
> *It is QUITE hard to compare two related, yet vastly different jutsu because of their functions. basically this is like asking "what is better? a hammer or a screw-driver?"
> the natural answer is  "at what?" the same applies for the rin'negan/sharingan.
> ...


----------



## dark messiah verdandi (Mar 21, 2010)

Bentham said:


> Everything that is bolded, is bulllshit. Everything else is correct



LOL... making a smart-ass joke is SO hard! way harder than countering a practical essay properly.
back your claims up with something stronger than a little piss.

Also, how hard is it to quote right?


----------



## The World (Mar 21, 2010)

Sasuke_Bateman said:


> Sharingan is better



When Sharingan has power over life and death call me.


----------



## Scizor (Mar 21, 2010)

The World said:


> When Sharingan has power over life and death call me.



*calls you*

Yo man, amerasu can fuck you up bad, man.


----------



## gummybear (Mar 21, 2010)

dark messiah verdandi said:


> LOL... making a smart-ass joke is SO hard! way harder than countering a practical essay properly.
> back your claims up with something stronger than a little piss.
> 
> Also, how hard is it to quote right?


What bentham said is right. You are full of BS.

The Rinnegan has already captured the Juubi. The Sharingan is much weaker, which is why it can only control the Kyubi.

Nagato has a weak Rinnegan and he was physically weak, which is why he needed chakra rods to control other bodies to fight for him. Otherwise, he'd just use his own body and wtfpwn people with all the techniques in 1 body.


----------



## Mida (Mar 21, 2010)

Well, doesnt the Sharingan derive from the Rinnegan? Anyway, no Rinnegan can go against a hordes of Uchiha fangirls I guess......So, VIVA LA Sharingan...ole...lol, I pretty suck at spanish


----------



## Adagio (Mar 21, 2010)

SuzumeShouken said:


> *calls you*
> 
> Yo man, amerasu can fuck you up bad, man.


He said life and death, not one of the two


----------



## MangaR (Mar 21, 2010)

_Are Uchiha fans really serious when they say that Sharingan is better than Rinnegan?_

Well ofcourse Sharingan is better, you can do something very useful with it......Furi Kuri !


----------



## Mio (Mar 21, 2010)

Adagio said:


> He said life and death, not one of the two


Omg is that Izanagi I see?!


----------



## Zerst?ren (Mar 21, 2010)

Overall, Sharingan is better because you don't ended up looking like Nagato and whit a machine stuck in your back, you'll just get bling but you'll have awesome powers while you're not. And you also have the possibility to get EMS, and live a normal life.

But if you compare the two Dojutsus, in terms of power and hype, then Rinnegan > Sharingan.

_I don't even have to explain why Rinnegan > Sharingan in terms of power._

And as everyone who reads the manga knows, the Rinnegan has been called the most strongest Dojutsu, believed a 'myth' and much more. .


*Overall:* _Sharingan > Rinnegan_
*The Real Deal:* _Rinnegan > Sharingan_


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 21, 2010)

gummybear said:


> What bentham said is right. You are full of BS.
> 
> The Rinnegan has already captured the Juubi. The Sharingan is much weaker, which is why it can only control the Kyubi.
> 
> Nagato has a weak Rinnegan and he was physically weak, which is why he needed chakra rods to control other bodies to fight for him. Otherwise, he'd just use his own body and wtfpwn people with all the techniques in 1 body.



what in the fuck are u talking about?


----------



## Scizor (Mar 21, 2010)

Adagio said:


> He said life and death, not one of the two



True. Mah bad.

*calls em again*

Yo man, amaterasu can fuck you up, and kishi's love for sharingan can resurrect/save/plot hax you.


----------



## dark messiah verdandi (Mar 21, 2010)

gummybear said:


> What bentham said is right. You are full of BS.
> 
> The Rinnegan has already captured the Juubi. The Sharingan is much weaker, which is why it can only control the Kyubi.


the sharingan isn't much weaker. if it was it wouldn't have been developed.
the fact is the rin'negan has only been shown a few times with a character that had a logically high chakra amount, and that was with young nagato.

much of his power and usefulness was due to the fruit of his contract with gedou mazou. his chakra became absolutely demonic in potency and he had the ability to use rokudou pain. 
without that option, nagato like other doujutsu users would have to carefully pick which powers he wanted to use, one at a time.

if one was comparing the six paths of samsara to the powers of sharingan, the sharingan wins EASILY, but the true effectiveness of the rin'negan is due to the ability to use and create any jutsu. that is why it was awesome. all in all the six paths aren't truely godlike without gedou mazou's influence.

you let your reading comprehension slip because of the plot. don't let that happen.


also RS had both. that is why it worked. the six paths of samsara do not support any powers that could bind or control ANYTHING of the juubi's power. that's why he used it to create the sharingan.


> Nagato has a weak Rinnegan and he was physically weak, which is why he needed chakra rods to control other bodies to fight for him. Otherwise, he'd just use his own body and wtfpwn people with all the techniques in 1 body.


Nagato originally had a strong body, and his rin'negan is perfect, but his inexperience led to his downfall. his legs were damaged, and he used gedou mazou to increase his power exponentially, thus causing his current predicament.

If he only had one body, he would only have one perspective, one action at a time, and one chance to live. using enma would definately increase his survival chances but even that jutsu takes time to use.

the six paths of samsara are great, but without gedou mazou, they fall behind in power and usability to the mangekyou's abilities. the rin'negan does win in supplementary powers though. the ability to create any jutsu just destroys all competition, and is the sole reason the sharingan even exists.


----------



## fr3dle (Mar 21, 2010)

Rennigan will always win. Why would madara be after it if it wasn't so fucking kickass own?


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 21, 2010)

fr3dle said:


> Rennigan will always win. Why would madara be after it if it wasn't so fucking kickass own?



anybody would want the rinnegan, especially in a time where ur gona vs the whole shinobi world. More power ups, nothing wrong with that.


----------



## dark messiah verdandi (Mar 21, 2010)

fr3dle said:


> Rennigan will always win. Why would madara be after it if it wasn't so fucking kickass own?



the problem is we don't know where he is getting it from.
If its from the corpses of Rokudou pein , then it is of some use to him, but does not inherently make it better or stronger than the sharingan, only capable of a different function.

If he gets it from SASUKE... (VIA awakening his EMS and coaxing it out as the final doujutsu in the sharingan line) then it is more or less the same thing, and is not actually different, but a higher level of their doujutsu.

In that case, this has been an excersize in futility since we were seperating the rin'negan from the uchiha all along, and if that is as impossible from seperating the byakugan from hyuuga DNA, then we have all been whining for nothing. it would mean the rin'negan basically IS a sharingan, but is only a higher function like sharingan>mangekyou>EMS>rin'negan

thus the arguement is moot. sure it's stronger, because it would turn out to be the highest level of sharingan.


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

I think the Sage himself proves the Rinnegan doesn't need to screw you up.


----------



## CCV (Mar 21, 2010)

Everything in Naruto-universe falls under the jurisdiction of the Rinnegan. Life, Death, Chakra, Ninjutsu, Genjutsu, Seal. Sharingan can only manipulate, it can't create and or destroy. Thus, Rinnegan >> Sharingan.


----------



## Black☆Star (Mar 21, 2010)

People are going against canon


----------



## landondonnovan (Mar 21, 2010)

Rinnegan >>>>>>>>>>>> Sharingan

there is no comparison


----------



## Skeith (Mar 21, 2010)

Didn't the Databook say it almost Godlike compare to the other two?


----------



## Tipster74743 (Mar 21, 2010)

Skeith said:


> Didn't the Databook say it almost Godlike compare to the other two?



Nope... you just made that up.


----------



## Skeith (Mar 21, 2010)

Tipster74743 said:


> Nope... you just made that up.



Then I am corrected.


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

Tipster74743 said:


> Nope... you just made that up.


It's specifically said to be the supreme doujutsu as well as to be held as exalted over the other two.


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 21, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> It's specifically said to be the supreme doujutsu as well as to be held as exalted over the other two.



MS was also SPECIFICALLY said to be the supreme doujutsu, in the databooks


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

Great. The Rinnegan was mentioned to be the best twice. Sorry, kiddo. Go verbally suck the Uchiha off elsewhere


----------



## ZE (Mar 21, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> MS was also SPECIFICALLY said to be the supreme doujutsu, in the databooks



Nop. The sharingan was never said to be the most supreme dojutsu. Unless I am mistaken and you can prove me wrong by posting a scan or a direct translation of the databooks.

From what I know, this is the situation:
-The databook 3 said the rinnengan reigns supreme over all dojutsus.
-The databook 3 says the MS was “feared” as the strongest dojutsu, which isn’t equivalent to being the strongest, since being feared as isn’t the same as being the strongest. People didn’t even know the rinnegan was real. 
-Pa called rinnengan the strongest dojutsu (it was the only instance where the manga classified a dojutsu in comparison to the others). Pa is a 800 years old frog, who has lived even more than Madara.


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 21, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> Great. The Rinnegan was mentioned to be the best twice. Sorry, kiddo. Go verbally suck the Uchiha off elsewhere



Doesn't matter. Databook calls MS the supreme doujutsu.


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 21, 2010)

ZE said:


> Nop. The sharingan was never said to be the most supreme dojutsu. Unless I am mistaken and you can prove me wrong by posting a scan or a direct translation of the databooks.



Hexa already posted the scans, there somewhere in this thread. I'll try looking for them later,


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

He's too stupid or dishonest to man up. It calls MS the supreme...it also kills Rinnegan the supreme as well and only ever calls it the top one in direct comparison to the other two


----------



## Skeith (Mar 21, 2010)

"Fear as the strongest" =/= Actually the strongest.


Say you visit a village that has NEVER had any outside contact before you came. Say you brought a handgun with you and killed a few warriors with it.

The people of the village would "fear" you and "fear" the handgun as the strongest weapon they had ever seen.

Does that make the handgun the strongest weapon in the world? HELL NO!!


----------



## Mio (Mar 21, 2010)

Sasuke has Godlike speed according to the databook.


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 21, 2010)

Hexa said:


> It's not really so clear cut:
> 
> *DB3*Eye Powers
> Caption: The power of *the supreme pupils, the Mangekyou Sharingan*.​
> *DB2*The culmination of the Sharingan that makes the Uchiha clan so special! Eye techniques holding the utmost potency even above both the insight and hypnosis, such as Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu become possible. Assuredly, *Mangekyou Sharingan is the ultimate doujutsu*​



k, took me a while to find. There it is.


----------



## ZE (Mar 21, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> k, took me a while to find. There it is.



Can?t find that anywhere, don?t know the part in the databook where you found that. Care to tell me? In Itachi?s entry?


----------



## the box (Mar 21, 2010)

Ra said:


> The sharingan is stronger than the rinnegan.



in the juice that you smoke world that might be possible


----------



## Cjones (Mar 21, 2010)

When the Sharningan gives someone the ability to rip out souls and revive the dead, then I'll admit it's greater than the Rinnegan, which the databook and manga calls the supreme dojutsu.


----------



## Skeith (Mar 21, 2010)

Hexa said:


> It's not really so clear cut:
> 
> *DB3*Eye Powers
> Caption: The power of *the supreme pupils, the Mangekyou Sharingan*.​
> *DB2*The culmination of the Sharingan that makes the Uchiha clan so special! Eye techniques holding the utmost potency even above both the insight and hypnosis, such as Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu become possible. Assuredly, *Mangekyou Sharingan is the ultimate doujutsu*​



.....That you can get from that bloodline. The Sharingan came from a clan and hundred of people knew them.

The Rinnegan is not something that amass in a clan and was nothing more than a fairy tail. the Rinnegan comes out in desperate time and would change the world. 

Not only that, but EVERYTHING IN THE NINJA WORLD  (That even includes every from of the Sharingan) came from the Rinnegan.


----------



## Mikaveli (Mar 21, 2010)

Rinnegan should be better, but the fact that Sharingan is more versatile and is basically more available it is the better doujutsu. Sharingan just seem to be a lot more pratical.


----------



## ZE (Mar 21, 2010)

Okay, I found this about the sharingan in the databook:


> Mangekyou Sharingan:
> The reason that Uchiha is called elite is because of the Sharingan. Itachi, who by the age of eight achieves the Sharingan, awakens this legendary ability, the Mangkeyou, which only a few done in the past.
> 
> Comment
> ...



Rinnegan:



> The powers revealed by that supreme doujutsu Pain carries may be but a mere portion, but that is not definite.
> 
> The supreme eyes that appear during troubled times
> 
> the "Rinnegan" are called the "most exalted eyes" among the "Three Great Doujutsu," the other two being the "Sharingan" and "Byakugan".



Should?ve expected the databook to contradict itself.


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 21, 2010)

ZE said:


> Can’t find that anywhere, don’t know the part in the databook where you found that. Care to tell me? In Itachi’s entry?



i dunno, and it doesn't matter. It's in the databook, ask hexa since he posted them, if your curious.


----------



## Mio (Mar 21, 2010)

ZE said:


> Okay, I found this about the sharingan in the databook:
> 
> 
> Rinnegan:
> ...


Hmm, you could kinda put it this way:

MS (Supreme Pupil) > Rinnegan (The best among the 3, Byakugan and Sharingan, doesn't mention MS) > Sharingan > Byakugan


----------



## ZE (Mar 21, 2010)

Mio said:


> Hmm, you could kinda put it this way:
> 
> MS (Supreme Pupil) > Rinnegan (The best among the 3, Byakugan and Sharingan, doesn't mention MS) > Sharingan > Byakugan



Only if the MS isn?t a dojutsu because the databook mentions that the rinnegan is the most supreme of them all. Just like it does for the MS, which means that the MS and the rinnegan are better than the EMS, or whatever dojutsu the tentails had. 

Anyway, a more believable source, the manga:

Different translations:
HisshouBuraiKen


> Pa frog: Wouldja forget dinner, Ma?! We gotta worry about this guy's eyes!
> Stay focused! He can use the most powerful eye techniques in the world!



cnet128


> Father: Kaa-chan, I really think you should be worrying about that guy's doujutsu more than about dinner! // You need to focus! It's the ultimate doujutsu, after all!



The word used leaves no room for doubts. In japanese, saikyo means "ultimate", something like "the strongest", "best", etc


----------



## vagnard (Mar 21, 2010)

I have no doubt EMS's Sasuke will be stronger than Rinnegan's Nagato for certain given:

1- He will face a stronger Naruto that the one who faced Nagato
2- Plotwise he is a lot more important
3- Madara foreshadowed he was waiting Sasuke to surpass Nagato. 

Rikudo Sennin had Rinnegan too but you must consider he possesed both "eyes" and "body" and considering how strong was Hashirama we can't discount how much influential "body" was part of his overall power.


----------



## The World (Mar 21, 2010)

SuzumeShouken said:


> True. Mah bad.
> 
> *calls em again*
> 
> Yo man, amaterasu can fuck you up, and kishi's love for sharingan can resurrect/save/plot hax you.



That's better. 

Kishi plot hax has true power over life and death.


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

vagnard said:


> I have no doubt EMS's Sasuke will be stronger than Rinnegan's Nagato for certain given:
> 
> 1- He will face a stronger Naruto that the one who faced Nagato
> 2- Plotwise he is a lot more important
> ...



We'll see who's stronger, but as of right now, Pain's still got the leg up. Sasuke'll need some damn fine new techniques to be stronger.


----------



## The World (Mar 21, 2010)

vagnard said:


> I have no doubt EMS's Sasuke will be stronger than Rinnegan's Nagato for certain given:
> 
> 1- He will face a stronger Naruto that the one who faced Nagato
> 2- Plotwise he is a lot more important
> ...



So it basically boils down to the user. *A huff A huff.*

Sharingan and Rinnegan are just tools to a ninja as stated in the manga.

However, there have been like a billion Sharingan users and only 1 Rinnegan user ever so often. The ratio isn't really fair now is it?


----------



## Skeith (Mar 21, 2010)

The powers revealed by that supreme doujutsu Pain carries may be but a mere portion, but that is not definite.
*
The supreme eyes that appear during troubled times*

the "Rinnegan" are called the "most exalted eyes" among the "Three Great Doujutsu," the other two being the "Sharingan" and "Byakugan". 

That line right there is important. 

It shows that MS is the supreme Doujutsu *UNTIL* the Rinnegan appears during trouble time.


----------



## Fatstogey (Mar 21, 2010)

Bentham said:


> I mean they must be joking right? Im still relatively new here so maybe im taking it too seriously. After the databook revealed that all pein's powers are ebcause of the Rinnegan, peoples still say MS is better????? people still say EMS will add 1 single techique that will make it greater than Rinnegan? After what Jiraiya said, what amdara said about the tablets, what has been implied over and over again that RInnegan is simply something else, people still say that it is debatable that it is the greatest dojutsu.............................
> Its  all a big joke right? Please tell me so



Yup. 

Follow.

Danzo pwned Rinnegan.  He saw it and lived.  He helped kill Yahiko

Sasuke>Danzo
Itachi>Sasuke 
Itachi>Danzo
Itachi>Naruto
Naruto>Pain
So inherently Itachi>Pain.  PERIOD this is fact cannon and damn you if you think pain could beat jesus.  Pain claimed to be god.  itachi knew he was god all along and didnt say shit to anyone. LOL He pwns him

It dont have anything to do with the eye itself.  Characters who have sharingans have just been way more badass than what pain had to offer.  Rinnegan may be better but we'll never know till Madara uses it.  Pain was a fuckin pussy.  Madara is gonna show you whats really hood with the rinnegan.


----------



## M a t t h e w (Mar 21, 2010)

EMS > Rinnegan > MS


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 21, 2010)

I'm going to assume you're trolling.

And EMS has what that makes it better than the MS? Nothing confirmed yet. We've had the Rinnegan called the top in the manga itself.


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Mar 22, 2010)

Atlantic Shinobi said:


> Big boys? If I'm not wrong, you're just a kid.


Yea, I am just a kid, who currently a juniour in college.




> No one is complaining about Madara's power, because he HAS already taken Izuna's power as his own. Sasuke has not taken Itachi's yet and yet still calls it 'part of his own power'.


That doesn't make sense. Once Sasuke implants Itachi's eyes, then wouldn't his power be is own as well, similar to Madara? And Sasuke is clearly speaking in future tense, as he is refering to a futuristic ecounter with Naruto, thus with his own power makes sense. It is as if I said I want to buy a lexus in 2015 with my own money, even is technically it is still currently my futuristic employer's.



> I don't know what it would do, or for what purpose Madara would use it, but he does need it. I also said Rinnegan is only better until EMS shows some stuff which makes it sound uber.


As he needs, Sasuke, the Biju, shishu's eyes, the sharingan eyes, hell eys in general. The Rennegan is no more special to Madara's plan at the momment, than all these other things, in which he apparently needs.

Also I told you I disagree, I see MS has superior to the Rinegan offensively than Rinegan. As the MS jutsu seem more haxed and even the basic sharingan, seem alot more haxed than the Rinegan.
Susano
Amaterasu/Kagutuchi
Tsukuyomi
Kumai
Izunagi
Controlling the Kyubi

All of the jutsu are more effiecient therefore more haxed, than anything the Rinegan has produced. 



> Actually, I take it back: EMS is probably better. We still HAVE to see what it can do.


Again you don't even need to look at the EMS, look how much hax is in the MS and the sharingan combined? I didn't even cluding prediction, copying, etc. etc. I am simply giving you the jutsu's.

The Rinegan simply has not shown the ammount of hax the sharingan + it's variants.



> Oh, and I'm not all-knowing, I'm just smart.


Everybody is smart, especially when it comes to this manga. However the problem is some of us, have a habit of straying to far from the manga to suggest their claims, thus when the baseless speculation comes into play. 
You are trying to say that Madara needing the Rinegan makes it the most powerful doujutsu, when the manga stated, Madara was collecting strong eyes in general.


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 22, 2010)

Rinnegan: Can bring back the dead

I think that alone means it's more hax. We have the Rinnegan called the top Doujutsu in manga by the 600 year old toad sage to boot.


----------



## Scizor (Mar 22, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> Rinnegan: Can bring back the down
> 
> I think that alone means it's more hax. We have the Rinnegan called the top Doujutsu in manga by the 600 year old toad sage to boot.



Rinnegan can only do that to those the rinnegan wielder him/herself killed.

Just sayin'


----------



## dark messiah verdandi (Mar 22, 2010)

I think people should quit using these silly hyperbole filled quotes to back up a claim.
feats not fluff.

in battle the sharingan VS the rin'negan gives the sharingan the win. it has the ability to destroy minds, create a miniature hell, and create a sword and shield that can cause absolute devistation.

the rin'negan is not as powerful ALONE in combat. we have proof that nagato wasn't as potent in chakra until he used gedou mazou, thus one must GREATLY scale back the range in his power to see the rin'negan for its real capability.

the rin'negan's true power comes from its ability to invent jutsu, and the databook suggests THAT is the true power of the rin'negan. The sharingan was created BY the rin'negan for the sole purpose to do combat with what could be seen as a plague on the world itself. a natural disaster.

it is a designed feature that the sharingan would be more offensive and severe in close combat than the rin'negan. that is WHY RS created it.

is it better than the rin'negan? no. because it lacks that omnipotent quality.
is it stronger in combat? hell yeah. it's meant to be. one would'nt be incorrect to call it  one of the outer paths of samsara.


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 22, 2010)

SuzumeShouken said:


> Rinnegan can only do that to those the rinnegan wielder him/herself killed.
> 
> Just sayin'



I suppose you'd think that if you didn't bother to actually read the scene.

The fanbook entry says it just costs a large amount of chakra. Which Nagato was short on.

Let's see what our friend Konan has to say!



"If he uses it now *with these chakra levels*

Given he was reviving loads of people on low chakra...no, it seems it wouldn't do a damn thing to him if he was at full strength


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 22, 2010)

dark messiah verdandi said:


> I think people should quit using these silly hyperbole filled quotes to back up a claim.
> feats not fluff.
> 
> in battle the sharingan VS the rin'negan gives the sharingan the win. it has the ability to destroy minds, create a miniature hell, and create a sword and shield that can cause absolute devistation.


You can't even spell 'devastation,' maybe you should stay out of this.
The Rinnegan can kinda do other things...and do them better



> the rin'negan is not as powerful ALONE in combat. we have proof that nagato wasn't as potent in chakra until he used gedou mazou, thus one must GREATLY scale back the range in his power to see the rin'negan for its real capability.


Oh noes, Nagato without having mastered his Rinnegan isn't as powerful as he'd be later?! Despite synching with gedo Mazo being a wholly different thing? 



> the rin'negan's true power comes from its ability to invent jutsu, and the databook suggests THAT is the true power of the rin'negan. The sharingan was created BY the rin'negan for the sole purpose to do combat with what could be seen as a plague on the world itself. a natural disaster.


And, y'know, the powers of the Six Paths. And powers over life and death...and yeah, invent jutsu and use all the alterations



> it is a designed feature that the sharingan would be more offensive and severe in close combat than the rin'negan. that is WHY RS created it.


Prove it.



> is it better than the rin'negan? no. because it lacks that omnipotent quality.
> is it stronger in combat? hell yeah. it's meant to be. one would'nt be incorrect to call it  one of the outer paths of samsara.



Prove it.


----------



## Scizor (Mar 22, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> I suppose you'd think that if you didn't bother to actually read the scene.
> 
> The fanbook entry says it just costs a large amount of chakra. Which Nagato was short on.
> 
> ...



Stopped reading at 'fanbook'.


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Mar 22, 2010)

dark messiah verdandi said:


> I think people should quit using these silly hyperbole filled quotes to back up a claim.
> feats not fluff.
> 
> in battle the sharingan VS the rin'negan gives the sharingan the win. it has the ability to destroy minds, create a miniature hell, and create a sword and shield that can cause absolute devistation.
> ...



I agree, with you. But the Rinegan's ability to create, does not outpace the sharingan's ability to copy. Kakashi is proof of this, with his so called 1000 jutsu. The sharingan's ability to copy is only limited to having the requirments, the same could also be said for the Rinegan, however elemental affinity requirments will not be a problem, due to the fact that the Rinegan gives access to all chakara affinities.


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 22, 2010)

Oh, you mean the one written by Kishimoto including canon information? This one?


Or do you just see 'fan' and have a knee jerk reaction?


----------



## Garfield (Mar 22, 2010)

Can't help it man, Kishi is an Uchiha fanboy.

He totally crushed the expectations from Pein.


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 22, 2010)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Yea, I am just a kid, who currently a juniour in college.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Which the Rinnegan counters via chakra absorbing


> Amaterasu/Kagutuchi


See above


> Tsukuyomi


Rinnegan=stronger tool and stronger ninja=broken Tsukuyomi


> Kumai


Power over life and death>power over time and space


> Izunagi


Which destroys the eye


> Controlling the Kyubi


Vs. controlling the Jyuubi?



> All of the jutsu are more effiecient therefore more haxed, than anything the Rinegan has produced.


The Six Paths' powers, plus power over life and death, plus all nature alterations, plus jutsu invention, plus Bijuu control, plus....you get the idea



> Again you don't even need to look at the EMS, look how much hax is in the MS and the sharingan combined? I didn't even cluding prediction, copying, etc. etc. I am simply giving you the jutsu's.
> 
> The Rinegan simply has not shown the ammount of hax the sharingan + it's variants.


Tough.
The databook and manga both refer to it as the top doujutsu.
Get over it



> Everybody is smart, especially when it comes to this manga. However the problem is some of us, have a habit of straying to far from the manga to suggest their claims, thus when the baseless speculation comes into play.
> You are trying to say that Madara needing the Rinegan makes it the most powerful doujutsu, when the manga stated, Madara was collecting strong eyes in general.



And he needed the Rinnegan for specific purposes. Hm.


----------



## Scizor (Mar 22, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> Oh, you mean the one written by Kishimoto including canon information? This one?
> 
> 
> Or do you just see 'fan' and have a knee jerk reaction?



I suppose you're talking about the databook, and that thing is laughable.

It contradicts itself like there's no tommorrow.

And I simply dont care enough to follow your fanboy arguement.


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 22, 2010)

SuzumeShouken said:


> I suppose you're talking about the databook, and that thing is laughable.
> 
> It contradicts itself like there's no tommorrow.
> 
> And I simply dont care enough to follow your fanboy arguement.



"It's laughable cause it cotnradicts my opinion!"

Does the manga also contradict itself? Three translations agree Nagato's only in danger because his chakra was low.
But I suppose that'll be ignored. Ah, trolls.


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Mar 22, 2010)

Lol. Rinegan< Books



Sharingan > trees



trees produce books.

Therefore Sharingan> Books> Rinegan 

It's over WE WON.


----------



## Scizor (Mar 22, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> "It's laughable cause it cotnradicts my opinion!"
> 
> Does the manga also contradict itself? Three translations agree Nagato's only in danger because his chakra was low.
> But I suppose that'll be ignored. Ah, trolls.





I'll give you an example:

The databook states that both the rinnegan and the sharingan are the best doujutsu.

And you dont realise this, but your opinion is kinda taken with a grain of salt, because ya ridin nagato's dick.


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 22, 2010)

SuzumeShouken said:


> I'll give you an example:
> 
> The databook states that both the rinnegan and the sharingan are the best doujutsu.


And the manga states the Rinnegan is the best. And?



> And you dont realise this, but your opinion is kinda taken with a grain of salt, because ya ridin nagato's dick.



And you don't realize this, but the page from the manga I posted kinda wrecked your original point. You may not realize this because you're either ignorant or stupid.


----------



## Scizor (Mar 22, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> And the manga states the Rinnegan is the best. And?
> 
> 
> 
> And you don't realize this, but the page from the manga I posted kinda wrecked your original point. You may not realize this because you're either ignorant or stupid.



How can you take this so seriously?

And it doesnt really matter what you say, your fanboyism refutes your own logic


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 22, 2010)

SuzumeShouken said:


> How can you take this so seriously?
> 
> And it doesnt really matter what you say, your fanboyism refutes your own logic



*Yawn* Do trolls even try these days?


----------



## Scizor (Mar 22, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> *Yawn* Do trolls even try these days?



*Yawn* Do trolls even try these days?


----------



## ソラのシン-사마 (Mar 22, 2010)

Those are called Uchiha-tards, they get beaten by their parents. So they all think they're Sasuke.


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Mar 22, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> Which the Rinnegan counters via chakra absorbing


With a sharingan counters, by simply destroying preda Pein. This is a pointless arugment you are going into, as both can make scenerios in which the other can counter.



> See above


See above



> Rinnegan=stronger tool and stronger ninja=broken Tsukuyomi


I am not going to give you a serious reply to this logic, as even you know it is down right retarded. 



> Power over life and death>power over time and space


What does that have to do with anything? How is reviving someone going to help you in battle genius? 



> Which destroys the eye


Doesn't matter, the Chou shenrai tensai, and chibaku tensai shortens the life of the wielder, have you ever considered that. All if not most big jutsu has draw backs, but Izunagi regardless is incredibly haxed. 



> Vs. controlling the Jyuubi?


Rinegan allowed controlling of the Biju, I could have sworn the manga stated he sealed it inside himself? Madara on the other hand CONTROLLED THE KYUBI. What Ridoku did is no different than what the Jurichi's are currently doing, and they do not require special eyes to do it. I suggest reading your post before hitting the send button, as you are starting to sound illogical now. 




> The Six Paths' powers, plus power over life and death, plus all nature alterations, plus jutsu invention, plus Bijuu control, plus....you get the idea


Yes and all that, and he still lost to a book.
Seriously life and death, is hype, we have seen very little representation of this power, and reviving people, is not going to help in a battle. Rinegan doesn't grant biju control if so, why didn't Nagato simply control the Naruto.
Jutsu invention, is nothing special, hasn't users created jutsu without the rinegan? Having all nature affinities could be potentialy good, but I have not even listed everything the sharingan grants  it's user.

Immortality
Space time via Madara
Sharingan prediction
Genjutsu
etc. etc. I only listed the highlights of the sharingan, but sense you seem to want to post everything, by all means lets post everything.

The sharingan has simply to much feats, for the Rinegan to keep up at this point. The sharingan is haxed, thus the reason why people complain about it being haxed. 




> Tough.
> The databook and manga both refer to it as the top doujutsu.
> Get over it


The Databook refers to the MS as being the strongest doujutsu as well, see an earlier post from hexa. And the databook/manga often listed the Rinegan as most supreme, which could also mean prestiges of the 3 doujutsu. 





> And he needed the Rinnegan for specific purposes. Hm.


You really had no response to this did you? As I stated before Madara needs a number of things for specific purposes, infact he flat out stated he was collecting strong eyes. What makes the Rinegan any special than the other things.


----------



## HawkMan (Mar 22, 2010)

I think the _Sharingan _has had a higher quantity of prolific users. Only one has reached the zenith of the sharingan's capabilities to date, but there have been other _Mangekyou _users. Given the uniqueness of some of the _Sharingan's _techniques(or at least each individual's "modding"), that doujutsu has seen far more development than the Rin'negan. 

All we've seen is the insane powers of the Rikudou sage, and Nagato-who chose to utilize the Rin'negan via the Six Path jutsu-. Not that it's a bad choice, it was an excellent jutsu. Perhaps he could have even developed the jutsu even further-who knows, but he's dead now-. 

So, from what we've seen from both doujutsu's, it's about the users and how the choose to unlock the hidden gems within. Is the _Sharingan _better? -I think they're relatively close to each other, each with it's own advantages-. Does it really matter at this point? -Not really, all the prolific _doujutsu _users left are mainly Uchihas-.


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 22, 2010)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> With a sharingan counters, by simply destroying preda Pein. This is a pointless arugment you are going into, as both can make scenerios in which the other can counter.


The Sharingan just just wink someone out of existence now.
Hey, remember the Sharingan mostly damages your vision to use? And given Kamui's still chakra based as it has to appear on the opponent and suck them up/..



> See above
> 
> 
> I am not going to give you a serious reply to this logic, as even you know it is down right retarded.


"Waaah, I love the Sharingan, waaaah."
Take it up with the manga, sweetheart. The eyes are just tools. We've seen the Sharingan's precious Tsukuyomi broken three times now. Not one of the breakers had the MS. 



> What does that have to do with anything? How is reviving someone going to help you in battle genius?


If you're gonna insult someone's intelligence, make sure to learn proper placement of commas, darling. And kinda goes to, ohh....power. And heavens, however can reviving someone from the dead help with battle...



> Doesn't matter, the Chou shenrai tensai, and chibaku tensai shortens the life of the wielder, have you ever considered that. All if not most big jutsu has draw backs, but Izunagi regardless is incredibly haxed.


Proof Chibaku Tensei does so, please. And we just know it shortened Nagato, the injured cripple's life. Nothing on that being an issue of the Rinnegan.
And Izanagi is a one shot jutsu that you have a minute to use and then you're blind. 



> Rinegan allowed controlling of the Biju, I could have sworn the manga stated he sealed it inside himself? Madara on the other hand CONTROLLED THE KYUBI. What Ridoku did is no different than what the Jurichi's are currently doing, and they do not require special eyes to do it. I suggest reading your post before hitting the send button, as you are starting to sound illogical now.


He had to split up the chakra first, control it, seal the body to make the moon and seal the rest within himself.
Rikudou was able, without anybody dying, to basically seal up the strongest of all Bijuu. Notice, coincidentally, that only two people in ALL Uchiha or Senju could ever control a Bijuu? Whereas Rikudou pretty much created them?




> Yes and all that, and he still lost to a book.
> Seriously life and death, is hype, we have seen very little representation of this power, and reviving people, is not going to help in a battle. Rinegan doesn't grant biju control if so, why didn't Nagato simply control the Naruto.
> Jutsu invention, is nothing special, hasn't users created jutsu without the rinegan? Having all nature affinities could be potentialy good, but I have not even listed everything the sharingan grants  it's user.


Itachi gave his life up for an idiot who did the opposite of what he intended. And lost to a disease. Scary.
And yeah, because we ALL know Nagato had every Rinnegan power when we know full well the Sage was stronger and had better control.
And the Sharingan doesn't grant the user any nature affinity. The Rinnegan does.
And Nagato caught the six Tails just fine. For the eight tails he said he'd just need a bigger CT



> Immortality


Prove it's an EMS power. 


> Space time via Madara


Wow. Something he can't even use when attacking


> Sharingan prediction


And the Rinnegan has chakra seeing abilities on par witht he Byakugan with how Pain perceived the barrier. And?


> Genjutsu


Given Pain placed Genjutsu traps in the mind of subordinates, he has this as well
etc.


> etc. I only listed the highlights of the sharingan, but sense you seem to want to post everything, by all means lets post everything.


Please keep looking dumber



> The sharingan has simply to much feats, for the Rinegan to keep up at this point. The sharingan is haxed, thus the reason why people complain about it being haxed.


"Waaaah, I love the Sharingan, waaaah."
Too haxed? despite every technique coming with a massive drawback?
The Rinnegan:
1. Allows you control over the enormous soul sucking, bijuu controlling statue
2. All of God Realm's powers, including gravity control, allowed a user to create the moon
2. Control over Bijuu, judging by the Juubi
3. Demon Realm's broken offensive abilities
4. Chakra absorbing
5. Soul sucking, mind reading, chakra seeing
6. Revival of the dead
7.  Powerful Genjutsu going by the Kinh of Hell ability
8. The power to destroy an entire village judging by God Realm
9. Control over all elements and the ability to invent new jutsu
10. Practically unlimited summoning powers
11. Stated to allow the user to use any technique they wish. 

We have the Rinnegan being called supreme more than the MS was in the same databook. the manga itself has Jiraiya and Fukasaku, one character well acquainted with the MS and the other who's lived six hundred years, call it the strongest. Ze provided the quote for Fukasaku





> The Databook refers to the MS as being the strongest doujutsu as well, see an earlier post from hexa. And the databook/manga often listed the Rinegan as most supreme, which could also mean prestiges of the 3 doujutsu.


But of course when it calls the MS the supreme one, it can't mean prestigious!
Never mind that..
1. Pain is stated to possess the supreme doujutsu in his section
2. the Rinnegan's section calls it the supreme doujutsu
3. It's said to be held as the most exalted over the other two. Meaning? It's better than them
4. In the manga, two characters state it's the most powerful. Fukasaku calls it the ultimate Doujutsu





> You really had no response to this did you? As I stated before Madara needs a number of things for specific purposes, infact he flat out stated he was collecting strong eyes. What makes the Rinegan any special than the other things.


Gedo Mazo, which he needs. Rinnei tensei which he also needs.

Naturally you'll ignore everything you don't like, like any other Uchiha fanchild.



"Without question" the most powerful


"Most powerful eye techniques in the world."


----------



## dark messiah verdandi (Mar 22, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> You can't even spell 'devastation,' maybe you should stay out of this.
> The Rinnegan can kinda do other things...and do them better


and you don't add periods at the end of your sentences. 
don't be a grammar nazi dood. dis is da intanetz. as long as you can understand me, then it shouldn't be a problem. fuck your ad homenims too.



> Oh noes, Nagato without having mastered his Rinnegan isn't as powerful as he'd be later?! Despite synching with gedo Mazo being a wholly different thing?



nagato mastered his rin'negan. He didn't use it's true powers, yet relied on the paths of samsara to fight.

 the problem is the output. THAT is what changed the scheme of things. he didn't have THAT much chakra. he literally put naruto to shame with that chou shinra tensei, and chibaku tensei.
those were things that wouldn't be possible to achieve if one was simply working on the chakra gained by the kekkei genkai.





> And, y'know, the powers of the Six Paths. And powers over life and death...and yeah, invent jutsu and use all the alterations


see its MY theory that the six paths are not an inherant ability of the rin'negan at all, but jutsu that RS invented during his lifetime, which were copied by nagato during his time away from "history". I think he read the tablet and copied the powers that RS wrote about. that is how he mastered powers that he hadn't exhibited in the three years he lived with jiraya, but had during his time as the heretical path of pain.



> Prove it.



I'll try. lets give it a little test. for it I will assume the paths of samsara are inherant powers.
*what are the benefits of the rin'negan/sharingan during combat?*

1. Taijutsu
The rin'negan gives you... the ability to absorb chakra??? 

the sharingan gives movement tracking 

2. Ninjutsu
The rin'negan has some outstanding abilities but all except for animal realm and daeva realm have to be used in EXTREMELY close quarters. the sharingan wins on range, quickness of use, power output, and potency of power. 

3. genjutsu.
the rin'negan can copy and create genjutsu, but it can't inherently use it with a stare. the sharingan can quite possibly kill people by looking at them.


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 22, 2010)

dark messiah verdandi said:


> and you don't add periods at the end of your sentences.
> don't be a grammar nazi dood. dis is da intanetz. as long as you can understand me, then it shouldn't be a problem. fuck your ad homenims too.


Learn what 'ad hominem is.' 




> nagato mastered his rin'negan. He didn't use it's true powers, yet relied on the paths of samsara to fight.


.....the Six Paths are powers of the Rinnegan, thanks.



> the problem is the output. THAT is what changed the scheme of things. he didn't have THAT much chakra. he literally put naruto to shame with that chou shinra tensei, and chibaku tensei.
> those were things that wouldn't be possible to achieve if one was simply working on the chakra gained by the kekkei genkai.


He used Super Shinra Tensei, Chibaku Tensei and many, MANY other jutsu, plus keeping all the paths active and had enough left to sacrifice himself with Rinnei Tensei, that's an enormous amount of chakra. 





> see its MY theory that the six paths are not an inherant ability of the rin'negan at all, but jutsu that RS invented during his lifetime, which were copied by nagato during his time away from "history". I think he read the tablet and copied the powers that RS wrote about. that is how he mastered powers that he hadn't exhibited in the three years he lived with jiraya, but had during his time as the heretical path of pain.


You're wrong, sorry. I posted direct proof in the other topic. The fanbook disproves you as well




> I'll try. lets give it a little test. for it I will assume the paths of samsara are inherant powers.
> *what are the benefits of the rin'negan/sharingan during combat?*
> 
> 1. Taijutsu
> The rin'negan gives you... the ability to absorb chakra???


And the ability to fire missiles out of your arms and lasers out of your head and suck out someone's soul



> the sharingan gives movement tracking
> 
> 2. Ninjutsu
> The rin'negan has some outstanding abilities but all except for animal realm and daeva realm have to be used in EXTREMELY close quarters. the sharingan wins on range, quickness of use, power output, and potency of power.


Such as? Hello chakra absorbing and again, Asura realm. All of the Sharingan's ninjutsu, the Rinnegan can absorb



> 3. genjutsu.
> the rin'negan can copy and create genjutsu, but it can't inherently use it with a stare. the sharingan can quite possibly kill people by looking at them.


Since...when can the Rinnegan not inherently use it? You need to make eye contact with the Sharingan too


Btw, chapters 373 and 377 have the Rinnegan stated as the strongest


----------



## dark messiah verdandi (Mar 22, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> Learn what 'ad hominem is.'


Its what you just did right there. attacking my credibility rather than attacking the stance of the main subject.



> .....the Six Paths are powers of the Rinnegan, thanks.


when I see RS with six zombies all using jutsu not related to the eyes I shall agree with you.



> He used Super Shinra Tensei, Chibaku Tensei and many, MANY other jutsu, plus keeping all the paths active and had enough left to sacrifice himself with Rinnei Tensei, that's an enormous amount of chakra.


exactly. Its too damn much. chakra is directly related to the physical health of ones cells. nagato was an anorexic cripple who barely moved, yet had more chakra shown that ANY other character in the manga.




> You're wrong, sorry. I posted direct proof in the other topic. The fanbook disproves you as well



It was irrelevant. 



> And the ability to fire missiles out of your arms and lasers out of your head and suck out someone's soul


shit... I forgot about the doujutsu granting you the ability to turn yourself into a cyborg.



> Such as? Hello chakra absorbing and again, Asura realm. All of the Sharingan's ninjutsu, the Rinnegan can absorb


this is true, but it isn't a rin'negan vs a sharingan, but both vs everything else. that is where the true usefulness lies. 



> Since...when can the Rinnegan not inherently use it? You need to make eye contact with the Sharingan too


since it never did. that's like asking, since when can the byakugan not inherently use it. using optical genjutsu is not one of the general benefits of having a legendary doujutsu.



> Btw, chapters 373 and 377 have the Rinnegan stated as the strongest


never trust the words of someone whom does not have professional experience with their claims. I assume you speak of jiraya and the frogs. neither had the rin'negan, and jiraya didn't have intimate experience with all  doujutsu.


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Mar 22, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> The Sharingan just just wink someone out of existence now.
> Hey, remember the Sharingan mostly damages your vision to use? And given Kamui's still chakra based as it has to appear on the opponent and suck them up/..


Sharingan damages your vision? Are you trolling? I swear that was an attribute to the MS. Blindness is not a factor for the sharingan or the EMS. 




> "Waaah, I love the Sharingan, waaaah."
> Take it up with the manga, sweetheart. The eyes are just tools. We've seen the Sharingan's precious Tsukuyomi broken three times now. Not one of the breakers had the MS.


It has? What page please. Itachi is the only one with the Tsukuyomi, oh the of little knowledge. And Sasuke was the only one that has broken out of it, and he has a sharingan.




> If you're gonna insult someone's intelligence, make sure to learn proper placement of commas, darling. And kinda goes to, ohh....power. And heavens, however can reviving someone from the dead help with battle...


I rather have a punction problem, than a reading comprehension problem any day of the week. You are seriously sounding more illogical with each post.




> Proof Chibaku Tensei does so, please. And we just know it shortened Nagato, the injured cripple's life. Nothing on that being an issue of the Rinnegan.



Konon shows the same concern for Nagato using Chibaku tensai as she did for him using chou shenrai tensai.



Probably more so, as Konon showed more concern using this technique than with chou shenrai tensai.


It is pretty much give, that given Konons concern for Nagato, that using that technique has side effects for Nagato as well.

It is an issue of the Rinnegan, as both techniques are ultimately techniques of the Rinnegan, and give that Nagato is the only one who has used them on pannel, we can assume that the effects of the techniques would happen to anyone. 



> And Izanagi is a one shot jutsu that you have a minute to use and then you're blind.


A minute is sometimes all you need to get the job done. 




> He had to split up the chakra first, control it, seal the body to make the moon and seal the rest within himself.


What? He split the chakara before his death, it is no different than what Minato manage to do without A doujutsu. He split the Kyubi's chakara in half, and sealed one in Naruto, and the other in the death god. Please learn to use the manga, to support your argument. 


> Rikudou was able, without anybody dying, to basically seal up the strongest of all Bijuu. Notice, coincidentally, that only two people in ALL Uchiha or Senju could ever control a Bijuu? Whereas Rikudou pretty much created them?


He never created them, they were derived from the Jubi. He basically took the Biju's power and split them into 9 different beings. That is like be taking a snickers, splite in 9 ways, and stating I created the chunks. LOL. 





> Itachi gave his life up for an idiot who did the opposite of what he intended. And lost to a disease. Scary.


What does that have to do with anything? The whole losing to a book was a joke, silly. 


> And yeah, because we ALL know Nagato had every Rinnegan power when we know full well the Sage was stronger and had better control.


The sage had more than just the eyes going for him as well, he had the body, the jubi etc. etc. His eyes were only a fraction of his powers.


> And the Sharingan doesn't grant the user any nature affinity. The Rinnegan does.


Never stated it did; talk about reading and responding to what you want to.


> And Nagato caught the six Tails just fine. For the eight tails he said he'd just need a bigger CT[/QUOITE]
> Yes, and you are for sure that would have worked, in Nagato's condition. Infact right after he made that statment, you do know he started to cough up blood, and dropped the current chibaku tensai?
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 22, 2010)

dark messiah verdandi said:


> Its what you just did right there. attacking my credibility rather than attacking the stance of the main subject.


I'm attacking your credibility AND your argument



> when I see RS with six zombies all using jutsu not related to the eyes I shall agree with you.




Thank you.



> exactly. Its too damn much. chakra is directly related to the physical health of ones cells. nagato was an anorexic cripple who barely moved, yet had more chakra shown that ANY other character in the manga.


He's a cripple because he's synched with Gedo Mazo. It's a whole mystical exchange





> shit... I forgot about the doujutsu granting you the ability to turn yourself into a cyborg.


Don't ask me how he has Asura Realm's power, but he does



> this is true, but it isn't a rin'negan vs a sharingan, but both vs everything else. that is where the true usefulness lies.


And the Rinnegan has basic counters for just about everything


> since it never did. that's like asking, since when can the byakugan not inherently use it. using optical genjutsu is not one of the general benefits of having a legendary doujutsu.


We've seen it could. Pain placed Genjutsu traps within the minds of subordinates



> never trust the words of someone whom does not have professional experience with their claims. I assume you speak of jiraya and the frogs. neither had the rin'negan, and jiraya didn't have intimate experience with all  doujutsu.


Jiraiya is one of the most well travelled learned characters in the manga. Fukasaku is 600 years old and lived through the times of the great Sharingan users.


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Mar 22, 2010)

SuzumeShouken said:


> Rinnegan can only do that to those the rinnegan wielder him/herself killed.
> 
> Just sayin'



Not really.

Kakashi didn't actually die at Pain's hands. He sacrificed his own life to use Kamui to save Chouji from being hit by Asura Realm's missile. And yet Nagato could still bring him back.


----------



## Scizor (Mar 22, 2010)

Atlantic Shinobi said:


> Not really.
> 
> Kakashi didn't actually die at Pain's hands. He sacrificed his own life to use Kamui to save Chouji from being hit by Asura Realm's missile. And yet Nagato could still bring him back.



And who attacked Choji, making Kakashi use kamui, forcing him over his limit?


----------



## John Connor (Mar 22, 2010)

Nagato was never implied to be some super ultimate genius


zetsu summed it up perfectly


----------



## Angoobo (Mar 22, 2010)

They weren't even aware or its existense...
Notice that Madara(who knows the rinnegan exists) never said such absurdities..


----------



## godsangel13 (Mar 22, 2010)

In normal situations, i think Sharingan is more useful/reliable. But for extreme circumstances i.e. if you are crippled and cant move around much like Nagato-sama, Rinnegan is the god


----------



## Nuuskis (Mar 22, 2010)

Rinnegan is better of course. Jiraya already confirmed that it is most powerful eye technique.

People are saying Sharingan is better, because we haven't seen Rinnegan's full power. Clearly Six Paths of Pain isn't the only power is has.


----------



## Mio (Mar 22, 2010)

Nachrael said:


> Rinnegan is better of course. Jiraya already confirmed that it is most powerful eye technique.


Jiraiya never saw the Mangekyou Sharingan's true power, neither the EMS.



Nachrael said:


> People are saying Sharingan is better, because we haven't seen Rinnegan's full power. Clearly Six Paths of Pain isn't the only power is has.


We haven't even begun scratching the surfaces of the Sharingan's dark secrets.


----------



## Yagami1211 (Mar 22, 2010)

Uchiha fan sprouting BS ?  !


----------



## Skeith (Mar 22, 2010)

MS is the strongest that anyone could get. There was a whole clan of them, they knew what could make it, and anyone could take those eyes and unlock it themselves. Look at Kakashi and Danzo.

Rinnegan is something that can't be mass produce and it created everything. Making it the strongest when it does come around.

In a way, it like when we created the nukes. It the most powerful thing we have, yet all the thing we used to make them were already created by a "God"


----------



## Nuuskis (Mar 22, 2010)

Mio said:


> Jiraiya never saw the Mangekyou Sharingan's true power, neither the EMS.


But he still knew some of Madara's powers. He didn't even see all of Rinnegan's powers even if Nagato was his student. What I am saying is, that Jiraya never saw Rinnegan's true power either.



Mio said:


> We haven't even begun scratching the surfaces of the Rinnegan's dark secrets.



Fixed for you.

You're right for that part, that we haven't seen any powers of Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan yet. And we PROBABLY already know the powers of Sharingan and normal Mangekyo Sharingan.

We have seen only little of Rinnegan's own unique powers. And to be able to use all six chakra elements and ANY jutsu's. Are you really serious?


----------



## OMNOMNOM THE COOKIEZ (Mar 22, 2010)

Zach said:


> Just simple tardism



YES.


----------



## Former Duelist (Mar 22, 2010)

If the owner of the _Rinnegan_ is able to use* ANY* jutsu, there should be no comparison. Unless limits are stated, _any_ jutsu would include every single jutsu in the _Naruto_ world.


----------



## Menato (Mar 22, 2010)

I doubt the rinnegan can actually use any jutsu, I pretty sure it cant use kekkei genkai jutsu's like amaterasu, tsukuyomi, susanoo ect.


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Mar 22, 2010)

Menato said:


> I doubt the rinnegan can actually use any jutsu, I pretty sure it cant use kekkei genkai jutsu's like amaterasu, tsukuyomi, susanoo ect.



No it can't, in fact the statment that it can use every jutsu was a hyperbole, it is not even supported by the databook. The reason the manga states it allows the user to learn any jutsu, as it grants the user all elemental affinities. Considering that most jutsu are founded upon by an elemental composistion, the Rinegan learning every jutsu is not far off the mark. However, most high level jutsu are not elemental, or they require "OTHER PARTS" so to speak. Look at the Akatsuki members, the majority of them were freaks, and the rest had Kekai Genkai, the Rinegan does not give the use ability to morph it's body composition into someone else, thus it being able to use such moves is impossable.

It is essentially the same drawbacks sharingan copying has, minus being restricted by not having the respective elemental affinity. However the sharingan has been shown to be able to copy more than just jutsu, taijutsu, handseals, handwritting etc. etc. The fact that Kakashi has over a 1000 jutsu, proves just how haxed the sharingan copying ability could be. However Kishi has chosen for smart reasons, not expand on it, just like the Rinegan and it being able to create any jutsu.


----------



## Skeith (Mar 22, 2010)

I rather have the ability to learn every justu and create new ones and control life and death instead of one that just copy from others and *have to kill friends and family just to unlock it true power. * 
^^
That right there is a drawback. That can really mess up one's own mind.


----------



## Adagio (Mar 22, 2010)

Mio said:


> Jiraiya never saw the Mangekyou Sharingan's true power, neither the EMS.
> 
> We haven't even begun scratching the surfaces of the Sharingan's dark secrets.


He knew about Madara's ability to summon and control the Kyuubi, the strongest of the Bijuu -- yet he still stated that the Rinnegan was superior.


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Mar 22, 2010)

Skeith said:


> I rather have the ability to learn every justu and create new ones and control life and death instead of one that just copy from others and *have to kill friends and family just to unlock it true power. *


The Rinegan's ability to lean is almost just as restricted as the sharingan's ability to copy. Hasn't the Akatsuki not taught you anything? They're powers are not natural, they have genetically modified they're bodies to do what they do. Basically you are not using the moves they are using, without a similar body modification, which you do not need the Rinegan to do.

What is the ability to create new ones? Is that really an ability? Does one have to have the Rinegan to create a jutsu?

And killing your friends is not the only way, as Kakashi has obtained it, and Sasuke has obtained it without killing a friend or family (Itachi died because of the desease ultimately). All one has the do is witness the death of a loved one, apparently, and as I stated before they're are probably other ways to obtain it, just look at Kakashi.




> ^^
> That right there is a drawback. That can really mess up one's own mind.



Not really I tell what is a draw back becoming this


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Mar 22, 2010)

Adagio said:


> He knew about Madara's ability to summon and control the Kyuubi, the strongest of the Bijuu -- yet he still stated that the Rinnegan was superior.



He knew Madara had the ability to do so, not how he did it.

Controlling the Kyubi was a well kept secret amoung the Uchiha clan.


----------



## Sharingan-Uchiha (Mar 22, 2010)

the rinnegan hasn't been shown to actually do anything that special really, who's to say that it was the rinnegan let Nagato control pain?


----------



## hellohi (Mar 22, 2010)

Rinnegan is better than the Sharingan. Look at all the abilities Nagato had along with the chakra he had which is also an obvious result of being the holder of the Rinnegan.

Uchiha use MS for a little bit and they start coughing up blood and pant like a fucking dog in the summer. Even with EMS, Amaterasu, Susano, Tsukiyomi, and Kamui are still shit compared to the Rinnegan abilities.

No one likes when their favorite character/technique/whatever is shitted on but the fact is, Rinnegan > Sharingan.

Lol Uchiha-fans and not the ones on the back of Uchiha clothing.


----------



## Skeith (Mar 22, 2010)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> The Rinegan's ability to lean is almost just as restricted as the sharingan's ability to copy. Hasn't the Akatsuki not taught you anything? They're powers are not natural, they have genetically modified they're bodies to do what they do. Basically you are not using the moves they are using, without a similar body modification, which you do not need the Rinegan to do.
> 
> What is the ability to create new ones? Is that really an ability? Does one have to have the Rinegan to create a jutsu?
> 
> ...



Even Kakashi shows mental breakdown. 

Kakashi spends most of his time mourning or reading his...."books" instead of being a teacher.

Itachi had to kill his friend and his clan and well.....you know how he ended up.

Sasuke.......do I even need to say anything.

Nagato family and friend die because of the war with leaf and Danzo. It had nothing to do with his eyes. He already had it power, but it was the war that made him crazy.


----------



## Complete_Ownage (Mar 22, 2010)

This whole thread could be summed up with a simple few words " Uchiha-fanboyism"...if thats even a word lol

Of course the true Uchiha fans will not see any other way besides Uchiha > all....


----------



## hellohi (Mar 22, 2010)

Complete_Ownage said:


> This whole thread could be summed up with a simple few words " Uchiha-fanboyism"...if thats even a word lol
> 
> Of course the true Uchiha fans will not see any other way besides Uchiha > all....



This. And coming from someone with an Itachi avatar, I'm shocked.


----------



## vagnard (Mar 22, 2010)

The World said:


> So it basically boils down to the user. *A huff A huff.*
> 
> Sharingan and Rinnegan are just tools to a ninja as stated in the manga.
> 
> However, there have been like a billion Sharingan users and only 1 Rinnegan user ever so often. The ratio isn't really fair now is it?



Basically...yes. But you could say the other "billions" sharingan user didn't have a "complete sharingan" given you can only reach sharingan max potential through EMS. 

In the case of Rikudo is more tricky because he was both "eyes" and "body" having eye power and body comparable to the strength, chakra and probably abilities of the Senju so it isn't a fair comparisson. Even Nagato admitted his Chibaku wasn't even close to Rikudo's probably for the same reason.



hello_hiッ said:


> Rinnegan is better than the Sharingan. Look at all the abilities Nagato had along with the chakra he had which is also an obvious result of being the holder of the Rinnegan.
> 
> Uchiha use MS for a little bit and they start coughing up blood and pant like a fucking dog in the summer. Even with EMS, Amaterasu, Susano, Tsukiyomi, and Kamui are still shit compared to the Rinnegan abilities.
> 
> ...



Then why all rinnegan users are dead while the 2 remaining Uchiha are set up as the last challenge of the main character? 

One of Naruto's goals is surpass all previous generations. The only way to do that is if current opponents are on par or better than previous generations.


----------



## Grep (Mar 22, 2010)

Rinnegan for right now. You can't use, "we don't know about EMS" as an excuse.  It just doesn't work that way, you can't give credit because something might have more secrets that will make it stronger but it also might not. 

Rinnegan's soul sucking shit is probably the most broken thing ever, there is nothing you can do about that.


----------



## hellohi (Mar 22, 2010)

vagnard said:


> Then why all rinnegan users are dead while the 2 remaining Uchiha are set up as the last challenge of the main character?



Because there have only been 2 Rinnegan users and one sealed up the most powerful chakra being ever into his own body and created the moon while the other destroyed a village with scary techs and then revived all the people he killed in the village. Rinnegan users are rare, only 2 in a life time compared to how many Uchiha..

And the Uchiha clan is pretty much dead. They were doomed from the start. Gotta kill/lose your closest person to get MS and then take your sibling's eyes to get even more power after you go blind. Becoming evil and dying is in their genes

Those power hungry motherfuckers


----------



## hellohi (Mar 22, 2010)

And the Uchiha clan came from the Rikudo Sennin, holder of the Rinnegan.

And what


----------



## HawkMan (Mar 22, 2010)

Your point?


----------



## katan667 (Mar 22, 2010)

HawkMan said:


> Your point?



you must be fucking stupid.


----------



## Skeith (Mar 22, 2010)

HawkMan said:


> Your point?



Without the Rinnegan, there would be no Sharingan.


----------



## hellohi (Mar 22, 2010)

HawkMan said:


> Your point?



Lol.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Lol.


----------



## Bahamut Slayer (Mar 22, 2010)

Just because the Sharingan stemmed off the Rinnegan doesn't mean it's better. Given all the drama and bloodshed just to tap into the Sharingan's true powers? 

'Must..... pluck eyes out.'

The great lengths that an Uchiha has to do, the reason why Itachi explained of the horrible history of the Uchiha. Killing someone really close to them in order to achieve MS and taking eyes for EMS....

MS was obtained with the attempted life, initiated in killing someone very close. Nagato merely lost his family and friends, he never initiated/intentionally decided in losing those bonds in the first place in order to unlock the potential of his Doujutsu.  

If there was a clan of Rinnegan wielders, I don't think they'd have such a dark history of killing one another or taking each others' eyes. 

The Uchiha clan in Konoha didn't do it, but the means and knowledge of acquiring those eyes was still known.


----------



## Selva (Mar 22, 2010)

I guess the OP got the answer to his question!
The Uchiha fans REALLY think the Sharingan is better than the Rinnegan !

omg all of this discussion ! If you're going by the feats, take a look at Rikudo Sennin and Madara:

- Rikudo: savior of the world, God of Shinobi, creator of the modern Ninjutsu, defeated the Jyuubi and became the Jinchuriki of it, divided it into the 9 tailed beasts and created the moon.
- Nagato: no need to repeat what he was capable of (and he even said his powers pale in comparison to the legendary Rikudo).
- Madara (who had the EMS): controlled the Kyuubi and was defeated by Hashirama.

What are you arguing about? c'mon people! Just because the manga has been focusing a lot on the sharingan doesn't mean the Rinnegan is inferior to it!


----------



## zuul (Mar 22, 2010)

I have no idea. I'm not a powertard so I don't give a flying shit about who is stronger than who. However I'm dead serious when I say that the sharingan is prettier.


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 22, 2010)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Sharingan damages your vision? Are you trolling? I swear that was an attribute to the MS. Blindness is not a factor for the sharingan or the EMS.


Semantics. "It's not the Sharingan, it's the MS!"
Wheedling little weasel


[Quote[
It has? What page please. Itachi is the only one with the Tsukuyomi, oh the of little knowledge. And Sasuke was the only one that has broken out of it, and he has a sharingan.[/Quote]
It was stated you need an MS. And Danzo and Bee both broke it. sasuke still has it, it's just not as strong.
So, are only strong ones unbreakable? Because nothing says that




> I rather have a punction problem, than a reading comprehension problem any day of the week. You are seriously sounding more illogical with each post.


And you're an idiot. I'd rather have a comprehension problem than that disability




> Konon shows the same concern for Nagato using Chibaku tensai as she did for him using chou shenrai tensai.


Lies.
She never said he'd be shortening his life



> Probably more so, as Konon showed more concern using this technique than with chou shenrai tensai.
> 
> 
> It is pretty much give, that given Konons concern for Nagato, that using that technique has side effects for Nagato as well.


Prove up or shut up. Nothing about it in the manga, databooks or fanbook



> It is an issue of the Rinnegan, as both techniques are ultimately techniques of the Rinnegan, and give that Nagato is the only one who has used them on pannel, we can assume that the effects of the techniques would happen to anyone.


The Sage could use a Chibaku Tensei thousands of times greater than Nagato did with no ill effects.
Sorry, sweetie



> A minute is sometimes all you need to get the job done.


Lovely comeback. 
Despite the only Izanagi user not being able to get the job done in ten



> What? He split the chakara before his death, it is no different than what Minato manage to do without A doujutsu. He split the Kyubi's chakara in half, and sealed one in Naruto, and the other in the death god. Please learn to use the manga, to support your argument.


Except he didn't die from it. He had to literally control the Jyuubi, seal it and create the other Bijuu.



> He never created them, they were derived from the Jubi. He basically took the Biju's power and split them into 9 different beings. That is like be taking a snickers, splite in 9 ways, and stating I created the chunks. LOL.


"He didn't create them, he....split up the Jyuubi...which...created them, yeah."



> What does that have to do with anything? The whole losing to a book was a joke, silly.


Stupid joke from a stupid poster, surprise



> The sage had more than just the eyes going for him as well, he had the body, the jubi etc. etc. His eyes were only a fraction of his powers.


Despite apparently beign strong and famous before he took down the Jyuubi. Despite what allowed him to do so, givne his moon creation, WERE the eyes



> Never stated it did; talk about reading and responding to what you want to.
> 
> 
> > And Nagato caught the six Tails just fine. For the eight tails he said he'd just need a bigger CT[/QUOITE]
> ...


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 22, 2010)

> 6.Reviving is nice, but how is this suppose to help offensively in a battle?


Well, gee, see all the Pain bodies? And we're discussing power


> 8. Not genjutsu


Didn't say vaporizing the village was


> 9. Inventing New jutsu, does not require a dojutsu.


Having all nature alterations sure does
[Quoe]
10. Rinegan has been limited on the summons son. Animal realm  used almost exactly the same Summons both on Naruto and Jiriaya. And Summoning doesn't require a dojutsu to begin with.[/Quote]
Being able to summon multiple animals of different types? When most are limited to just one contract? And Animal Realm broke out some different summons per fight. 
And show me this summon limit.
And what other person can someone people on a whim precisely?



> 11. Yes and we've seen that exactly when? And sharingan can copy an unlimited amount of jutsu, so what is the point. I think being able to use any jutsu, is due to the fact that it grants the user to all 6 chakara affinities.


The Sharingna can only copy handseals. And not even all of them. 
And oh, you THINK? Awww, the poor baby can THINK, what a shocker. Despite it being said otherwise that they can create new techniques AS WELL AS use any nature alteration.



> We have the Rinnegan being called supreme more than the MS was in the same databook. the manga itself has Jiraiya and Fukasaku, one character well acquainted with the MS and the other who's lived six hundred years, call it the strongest. Ze provided the quote for Fukasaku[/QIPTE]
> Does it matter? The MS was stated to be the strongest dojutsu in the databook period. Jiraiya and Fukasku are not aware of the higher level sharingans, including the EMS. Thus they're statments have to be taken with a grain of salt.



Yeah, actually it does matter. The Rinnegan was *Also* stated to be the strongest in *The same databook* three times, once specifically in comparison to the other two. Jiraiya is well aware of the MS and prove Fukasaku is unaware of the others. He's a 600 year old sage who lived through the times of Hashirama and Madara.
So, dear idiot, provide why the manga shouldn't be taken seriously. Why did Kishimoto put in two statements from learned characters on the power of the Rinnegan if it was "LOL JUST KIDDING." we've seen nothing more prove it wrong thus far






> You do know the word supreme has multiple meanings right?


And in the manga, it's called the most powerful. Twice over.
You're aware the MS was only called the supreme pupils once in the databook, right? So...that isn't a 'different meaning,' why? You don't want it to be?







> No it doesn't. Akatsuki were able to summon it while Pein was off to Konoha. Madara plans to sync Sasuke to it so get the F out with that BS.


And Madara is also going to get the Rinnegan...it was described as Nagato's...personal summon alone.
Are you wrong again as well as plain stupid?




> That came from Fugasaku/Jiraiya both, and both do not appear to know the highest level sharingan. As Jiraiya was clueless of Amaterasu in part 1.


Funnily enough when he's no longer ignorant of it, he doesn't object when Fukasaku, the 600 year sage who knows what he's talking about describes them as the most powerful doujutsu in the world.
Still waiting why it's said twice they're the most powerful in the manga and called supreme over the Byakugan AND Sharingan. "B-b-b-b-b-but they have multiple meanings! Never mind that can apply to my beloved MS!"


----------



## vagnard (Mar 22, 2010)

hello_hiッ said:


> Because there have only been 2 Rinnegan users and one sealed up the most powerful chakra being ever into his own body and created the moon while the other destroyed a village with scary techs and then revived all the people he killed in the village. Rinnegan users are rare, only 2 in a life time compared to how many Uchiha..
> 
> And the Uchiha clan is pretty much dead. They were doomed from the start. Gotta kill/lose your closest person to get MS and then take your sibling's eyes to get even more power after you go blind. Becoming evil and dying is in their genes
> 
> Those power hungry motherfuckers



That's not the point and you know it. 

If Rinnegan was that really relevant to the story Kishimoto would revive Rikudo or let Nagato outlive Madara at the end. Neither of them happened. 

Sasuke will surpass Nagato soon with EMS (if he already didn't after he mastered Susano) and Madara will be the final benchmark Naruto will have to surpass to became the strongest ninja ever. Even if you don't like it.


----------



## memocay (Mar 22, 2010)

EMS vs. Rinnegan is pointless !

You just cannot compair their powers!


----------



## Superstars (Mar 22, 2010)

Fanboys are never serious, they are just jealous and they try to wreck the other fanboys celebrations.

It's too bad, Rinnengan is the strongest the Sharingan takes the back seat. It's canon facts. Anyone who disagrees is a fanboy to the 2nd powah!!


----------



## HawkMan (Mar 22, 2010)

katan667 said:


> you must be fucking stupid.


Who are you??


-If you believe origin infers superiority, then I suppose your parents are superior and will always be superior to you-. That's just a small example, point is you can't hardly believe that just the beginning is always the best, or most developed. Take into consideration the size of the gene pool endeavoring to improve the _sharingan _vs the _Rin'negan_. Also take into consideration the users-a tool is only as useful as it's user. 

With that in mind, we only have two relevant user's of the _Rin'negan_. One chose to use a Six-path Jutsu that was pummeled by Naruto. The other did things that are out of this world with it, though he did a great deal of other things as well. There just hasn't been an extensive development of that doujutsu, while the _sharingan _continues to evolve and reach new heights.


----------



## Skeith (Mar 22, 2010)

vagnard said:


> That's not the point and you know it.
> 
> If Rinnegan was that really relevant to the story Kishimoto would revive Rikudo or let Nagato outlive Madara at the end. Neither of them happened.
> 
> Sasuke will surpass Nagato soon with EMS (if he already didn't after he mastered Susano) and Madara will be the final benchmark Naruto will have to surpass to became the strongest ninja ever. Even if you don't like it.



We are talking about the eyes themselves, not the people who use them.


----------



## hellohi (Mar 22, 2010)

vagnard said:


> That's not the point and you know it.
> 
> If Rinnegan was that really relevant to the story Kishimoto would revive Rikudo or let Nagato outlive Madara at the end. Neither of them happened.
> 
> Sasuke will surpass Nagato soon with EMS (if he already didn't after he mastered Susano) and Madara will be the final benchmark Naruto will have to surpass to became the strongest ninja ever. Even if you don't like it.


That's not the point and you know it. I'm talking about how the Rinnegan > Sharingan is canon and your talking about some other bullshit.

Lmao. What the fuck am I reading? Rinnegan > Sharingan and that's it. There's no need to "revive" Rikudo or let Nagato outlive Madara to prove that.. they've proved enough 

Rikudo Sennin and Nagato both kicked ass with it and their abilities are definitely better than the Sharingan and it's power ups. Even if you don't like it.


----------



## Hokage (Mar 22, 2010)

*Myth busted 1*

* Rinnegan users are weak against genjutsu*. Nagato was weak against genjutsu. For all we know he could have been a fantastic Rinnegan user or a broken, sick and weak person who was blessed with a tremendous power whom he barely knew how to use .

*Myth busted 2*

*EMS is weaker then Rinnegan*. Have we any proof about that? I mean ok I agree with those who say that EMS alone (from what we know) is not a guarantee to win against a Rinnegan user. Stating that to say that an EMS user with the Kyuubi pokemon at his side would still stand no chance against a Rinnegan user is a bit over the top.
*
Myth busted 3*

*Pain would surely get out from Tsukuyomi*. How do you know that? Ok Sasuke got out of it but Sasuke is an Uchiha (genjutsu is in his blood) blessed with two of the finest sharingan eyes ever and fighting against a sick person. Pain may or may not have gotten out from genjutsu. That's something only Kishi knows

*Myth busted 4 *

*If Pain is caught into genjutsu then he would be mince meat*. How do you know that? What proof do you have that genjutsu would hit Nagato directly rather then just cut the link with his puppets. And if an Uchiha user is miles away from Nagato then Nagato has all the time in the world to re organize, raise new human puppets and next time hit by a chibaku tensei in distance. 

I believe that

Rinnegan > MS 

Ok MS is cool and all that but I can see an Uchiha with MS run out of steam before destroying all 6 paths

Apart from that its all lie on speculation and the quality of the fighters involved.


----------



## YoshiPower (Mar 22, 2010)

Sadly enough, yes. They are serious.


----------



## Hokage (Mar 22, 2010)

Skeith said:


> We are talking about the eyes themselves, not the people who use them.



But do we have enough information to make a clear distinction about that? I mean we just have 1 Rinnegan user to analyse, a person who was mentally challenged (he thought that he was a god), he was sick and had never been given top training (J-Man is a fabulous teacher but few time with him is hardly the top considering that top Konoha fighters have passed years in the academy, then with a top jounin and then (in team 7 case) three years with a Sanin). For all we know Nagato could have been the Hinata version of the Rinnegan users ie he had barely scratched the top of the Rinnegan's potential.

From the Sharingan side we know more. On the other hand

a) we have never seen the EMS in action
b) sharingan's power can vary so much that you can't really say whether it would be enough to beat a rinnegan user or not. Kakashi's sharingan is different from Itachi's sharingan.


----------



## Skeith (Mar 22, 2010)

Hokage said:


> *Myth busted 1*
> 
> * Rinnegan users are weak against genjutsu*. Nagato was weak against genjutsu. For all we know he could have been a fantastic Rinnegan user or a broken, sick and weak person who was blessed with a tremendous power whom he barely knew how to use .
> 
> ...



We only saw him affected by *sound-base* genjustu, not sight-base.


These three are stuck in a Genjustu, but...

A other bodies are now there.
"But he cancle the justu, he just brought the bodies over when the Genjustu was over."



You mean to tell me he brought the other three bodies out of here, to the battlefield and attack Jiraiya within a few seconds of him release the Genjustu?


----------



## Xcorpyo001 (Mar 22, 2010)

HawkMan said:


> Who are you??
> 
> 
> -If you believe origin infers superiority, then I suppose your parents are superior and will always be superior to you-. That's just a small example, point is you can't hardly believe that just the beginning is always the best, or most developed. Take into consideration the size of the gene pool endeavoring to improve the _sharingan _vs the _Rin'negan_. Also take into consideration the users-a tool is only as useful as it's user.
> ...



Very nice theory,,,with the gene pool, parents and all. However, if my parents can do these things:
-raze one village with one Jutsu
-kill half a village with only six *dead* bodies
-ressurect half a village
*and* i can't do all these things(even if i can do some serious feats myself), yes, i would considered my parents to be superior. Wouldn't you?


----------



## Jiraiya4Life (Mar 22, 2010)

Zetamancer said:


> I say that the Sharingan is better, though it shouldn't be. The sharingan  is only better because of it's infinite capacity of producing new godly abilities when necessary.
> 
> The rinnegan, while godly, has a more fair and preset amount of abilities.
> 
> ...



Umm lets edit this

Sharingan = Copy techniques,control kyuubi(Have to take someones eyes),Amaterasu(slowly blinds you), susanoo(slowly blinds you), tsukiyomi, Izanagi(automatically blinds you), Kamui(fucks up your chakra), space-time manipulation(may not be part of sharingan), genjutsu, put out amaterasu, ablilities will continue to be added and so will the plot be contuing to get more suckish.
Rinnegan = Master all elements, master the 6 paths, and gedoumazo detriments health not rinnegan itself. You laso master all jutsu, your an automatic genius, you have a vast amount of chakra and lets not forget making the fucking moon.


----------



## M a t t h e w (Mar 22, 2010)

EMS FTW!!! Trust me, Soon you will understand....


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 22, 2010)

rinnegan is mostly hype, and hype came from RIKUDOU SENNIN. NO ONE in the manga, EXCEPT Madara knew why rikudou was so damn powerful, that he was considered a god amongst people. THe Juubi Obviously amplified his rinnegan powers to an extreme level.

Jiraiya and the frogs were basically ignorant when they made comments about rinnegan being the the supreme pupils, when 1. They had no idea wtf a MS or EMS was.   2. Didn't know wtf a juubi was and what it did. and 3. Why rikudou was considered a "god". They most likely _assumed _he was all powerful because of the rinnegan alone, when it was actually the Juubi that put him in "god" tier.

Rinnegan didn't actually live to that hype, when it came to nagato.


----------



## Judecious (Mar 22, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> rinnegan is mostly hype, and hype came from RIKUDOU SENNIN. NO ONE in the manga, EXCEPT Madara knew why rikudou was so damn powerful, that he was considered a god amongst people. THe Juubi Obviously amplified his rinnegan powers to an extreme level.
> 
> Jiraiya and the frogs were basically ignorant when they made comments about rinnegan being the the supreme pupils, when 1. They had no idea wtf a MS or EMS was.   2. Didn't know wtf a juubi was and what it did. and 3. Why rikudou was considered a "god". They most likely _assumed _he was all powerful because of the rinnegan alone, when it was actually the Juubi that put him in "god" tier.
> 
> Rinnegan didn't actually live to that hype, when it came to nagato.



but he had the rinnengan before the juubi


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 22, 2010)

naruto the best said:


> but he had the rinnengan before the juubi



But they didn't know about any of the details. Rikudou became famous and well known because of the juubi.


----------



## Judecious (Mar 22, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> But they didn't know about any of the details. Rikudou became famous and well known because of the juubi.



exactly he used the rinnengan to kick the juubi's ass
i am not saying EMS is not strong but rinnengan is the best
like zestu said a weapon is only as good as its wielder


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 22, 2010)

That's exactly what I'm saying, rinnegan was only THAT good because of rikudou. Also Don't forget rikudou not only had the rinnegan but he also had the spirutal enegry or w/e (senju thing) so that might have helped him in defeating the juubi.


----------



## Judecious (Mar 22, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> That's exactly what I'm saying, rinnegan was only THAT good because of rikudou. Also Don't forget rikudou not only had the rinnegan but he also had the spirutal enegry or w/e (senju thing) so that might have helped him in defeating the juubi.



thats true 
but its canon that the rinnengan is the best but you never know kishi could change things


----------



## Black☆Star (Mar 22, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> rinnegan is mostly hype, and hype came from RIKUDOU SENNIN. NO ONE in the manga, EXCEPT Madara knew why rikudou was so damn powerful, that he was considered a god amongst people. THe Juubi Obviously amplified his rinnegan powers to an extreme level.


He knew all that from a rinnegan user because he couldn't decipher it all with his EMS



> Jiraiya and the frogs were basically ignorant when they made comments about rinnegan being the the supreme pupils, when 1. They had no idea wtf a MS or EMS was.   2. Didn't know wtf a juubi was and what it did. and 3. Why rikudou was considered a "god". They most likely _assumed _he was all powerful because of the rinnegan alone, when it was actually the Juubi that put him in "god" tier.


1)They never knew about Rinnegan abilities either while Jiraiya witnessed amaterasu and probably knew of Tsukuyomi from Kakashi and he never hesitate to say that Rinnegan is the strongest
2)Maybe
3)He already was a God because he made the Juubi his bitch so Rikudou>Juubi.Also you have no proof that he didn't have the Rinnegan.



> Rinnegan didn't actually live to that hype, when it came to nagato.


And yet Nagato did in one page what Madara with EMS and Kyuubi failed to do in 100 years.


----------



## Selva (Mar 22, 2010)

Harry omg 
Rikudo Sennin with his Rinnegan showed up way before Madara with his EMS... now compare their feats together! Who wins? Rikudo hands down!
He made lot of great things even before becoming the Jinchuriki of the Juubi!  He defeated the freaking Juubi by himself!


----------



## memocay (Mar 22, 2010)

akkadiaN said:


> And yet Nagato did in one page what Madara with EMS and Kyuubi failed to do in 100 years.



dying in a very gay way ?


----------



## Black☆Star (Mar 22, 2010)

memocay said:


> dying in a very gay way ?



One-shot Konoha. But don't worry Madara will have a similar fate to Nagato maybe worse because after he becomes a Jinchuriki he will fall to a Kage Bunshin feint + Rasengan combo


----------



## memocay (Mar 22, 2010)

akkadiaN said:


> One-shot Konoha. But don't worry Madara will have a similar fate to Nagato maybe worse because after he becomes a Jinchuriki he will fall to a Kage Bunshin feint + Rasengan combo



Madara did almost destroy the village too !

And he killed alot of Ninjas even Yondaime had to sacrefice himself in order to stop him !


----------



## Black☆Star (Mar 22, 2010)

memocay said:


> *Madara did almost destroy the village too !*
> *And he killed alot of Ninjas *even Yondaime had to sacrefice himself in order to stop him !



Do you have any proof?


----------



## Black☆Star (Mar 22, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> He didn't know about susano, and didn't know about the final secret(s) of EMS.
> 
> And he knew nothing of Rinnegan  and still said that Rinnegan>Sharingan
> 
> ...


----------



## Skeith (Mar 22, 2010)

The first Hokage and Madara were decendant of Rikudou sons, both of which carry HALF of his power.


And seeing that the first beat Madara, even when he had EMS, shows something. 



> Madara did almost destroy the village too !
> And he killed alot of Ninjas even Yondaime had to sacrefice himself in order to stop him !



Keyword: Almost.

Both times,he didn't destroy the village and they weren't invaded, showing that they still had a strong ninja force.

Pain did destroy the village and would have kill everyone just like this:


----------



## Morgan (Mar 22, 2010)

I agree with Selvaspeedy. Rinnegan>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sharingan. Shouldn't logicality play a hand in this? The Sharingan came from the Rinnegan; so how can one say Sharingan >Rinnegan?


----------



## @lk3mizt (Mar 22, 2010)

sharingan is better, stronger and h4xier than rinnengan.

/totally serious

lol, on a serious note, i doesn't matter which is stronger. A tool is only as strong as its wielder. Imagine giving Sakura rinnengan  and you ask her to fight Sasuke with his sharingan 

who would win?


----------



## Judecious (Mar 22, 2010)

rinnengan beats older sons eyes and hes beat sharinagn


----------



## beij (Mar 22, 2010)

Itachi>Rikudo Sennin

a healthy Itachi can maintain Susano for more than long enough to kill Rikudo with Sword of Totsuka, which blitzed Orochimaru so badly he could not even see it coming at all. and great speed is not required to take out a biju, only great power ex amarterasu against the hachibi; chou shinra tensei or chibuku tensei would be enough to take out Juubi. therefor Rikudo even by hype is not faster than any ninja shown in the series thus far, but only more powerful. he still could not react a protect himself from Sword of Totsuka, and the rinnagan can not help him once it has hit him. rinnegan has nothing on MS, and even less on EMS. Madara loosing to just Hashirama is riddiculous; i gurantee Madara was fighting the entire village, includding the entire Senju clan. once the Senju;s one, they spread propaganda that it was only Hashirama who fought in an attempt to make madara look weaker. even in Narutoverse there is propaganda brah. in short, Sword of Totsuka blitzes Rikudo, he gets sealed in another dimension, Itachi wins (also even if Rikido managed ot get an attack in, yata mirror would protect itachi), Sharingan>rinnegan

Madara could also kill Rikudo with warping, Kakashi could Kamui Rikudo as he was more than fast enough to react to Susano arrows, which travels faster than Juubi or any living creature in Naruto Verse for that matter. heck, a raiton clone/Raikiri feint would even give Rikudo trouble. and the rinnegan offers no defense to sharingan genjutsu, yet anouther reason why Itachi owns him. Heck even Shishui could control his mind with his dojutsu, and for that matter so could Danzo, but since Shishiu is more proficient with it sue to being Uchiha, he could use it more frequetnly and really mess with Rikudo's mind

Sharingan>rinnegan

Uchiha>Senju

elite sharingan users (the ones i mentioned, as well as Sasuke when he gets EMS, and probably Izuna as well)>Rikudo. Also Madara beats Pain rather easily, and Kakashi would have if Pain did not have PNJ on his side as well as the plot armor of having to fight Naruto. healthy Itachi and Sasuke (especially with EMS) also beat him

Sharingan>rinnegan


----------



## Skeith (Mar 22, 2010)

An Uchiha never beaten an Senju before.


----------



## Judecious (Mar 22, 2010)

Skeith said:


> An Uchiha never beaten an Senju before.



hes joking 
the post is just for the lol


----------



## beij (Mar 22, 2010)

also, Gaara and Sasori>Uchiha, and for that matter Senju and all rinnegan users, for reasons i will elaborate on later. in short, poison iron sand, heart transerfer, 100 puppets, immunity to genjustu makes Sasori almost unbeatable, which is why Kishi killed him off early with PNJ (and that was some big time PNJ)

Gaara sand speed is faster tahn anyone in Naruto verse as it blitzed Raikage and Sasuke, and was faster than Amarterasu. with his new sand speed he cannot be hit, and his chakra is now greater due to his lack of insomnia. he could also defend against genjsutsu while within floating sand sphere, and could see with eye of sand, which since it is an abnomal eye made out of sand, it is immune to genjustu

and by the way, C4 Karura is the most broken attack in Narutoverse, as it would allow Deidara to beat litterally anybody who brieths (again not Sasori) and does not have a dojustsu, even if they are all around stronger than Deidara


----------



## beij (Mar 22, 2010)

naruto the best said:


> hes joking
> the post is just for the lol



i might be exagerating a bit, but i am not joking

downrep me if you want, but based on hype and what they have shown, Rinnegan is powerful, but Sharingan has more broken abilities like Kamui (as well as Madara's warping attack, which is likely an evolved Kamui), as well as Itachi's Suasno with artifacts


----------



## beij (Mar 22, 2010)

oh, and i forgot to even meantion izanagi yet, which could potentially be the death of anyone at the sacrifice of one eye (as long as the person you are trying to kill does not have plot armor that is, aka Sasuke and Also Hashirama, casue is Hashirama and the rest of the Senju dies, the storyline would be completly different, and for that matter Naruto might not even exist)


----------



## Scizor (Mar 22, 2010)

Sharingan>Sakura>rinnegan.


----------



## Skeith (Mar 22, 2010)

SuzumeShouken said:


> *Rinnegan>Sharingan>Everything else>Sakura*



Fixed.


----------



## Zerst?ren (Mar 22, 2010)

Skeith said:


> Fixed.



Sakura > You 

Rinnegan is for trolling, Sharingan is for fighting. They both have their pros and cons, but for me, the manga is clearly screaming right now

Sharingan in all its forms > Rinnegan


----------



## Scizor (Mar 22, 2010)

Skeith said:


> Fixed.



Almost.

It's:

Me>sharingan>everything else except wife exchanging (seriously, wtf is that?)>sakura>rinnegan>wife exchanging.


----------



## yaro39 (Mar 22, 2010)

The sharingan has quite a few advatages over the rinnegan such as amaterasu, susanoo, ultimate genjutsu, etc. But the rinnegan is also good. Id say a mangekyo sharingan is about equal with rinegan that we saw pein use, although the sennins rinegan was suposed to be supirior.


----------



## memocay (Mar 22, 2010)

akkadiaN said:


> Do you have any proof?



Just read the first 2-3 chapters of Naruto !


-


-







wow I was quoted 3 times in a single page !

thx for da attention guys


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 22, 2010)

morganmorgy said:


> I agree with Selvaspeedy. Rinnegan>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sharingan. Shouldn't logicality play a hand in this? The Sharingan came from the Rinnegan; so how can one say Sharingan >Rinnegan?



that's a bad example to give. We humans came from monkeys according to the myth, yet we're much more advanced than them.

Rinnegan is "greater" but the sharingan is stronger battle wise.


----------



## Angoobo (Mar 22, 2010)

No, even Madara needs Rinnegan in order to have a chance to win the war(if sharingan was superior to rinnegan battle-wise, he simply could've looked for another sharingan...)


----------



## Judecious (Mar 22, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> that's a bad example to give. We humans came from monkeys according to the myth, yet we're much more advanced than them.
> 
> Rinnegan is "greater" but the sharingan is stronger battle wise.



did you see what happened to konoha when the rinnengan was used, and look what happened when EMS and kyuubi was used


----------



## Harry Balzac (Mar 22, 2010)

naruto the best said:


> did you see what happened to konoha when the rinnengan was used, and look what happened when EMS and kyuubi was used



Pain lost.

Madara lost. Basically the same thing.


----------



## memocay (Mar 22, 2010)

Skeith said:


> The first Hokage and Madara were decendant of Rikudou sons, both of which carry HALF of his power.
> 
> 
> And seeing that the first beat Madara, even when he had EMS, shows something.
> ...



I am pretty shure that Pain did not destroy the entire Village too !



naruto the best said:


> did you see what happened to konoha when the rinnengan was used, and look what happened when EMS and kyuubi was used



Madara?s attack caused more damage !


----------



## Black☆Star (Mar 22, 2010)

memocay said:


> Just read the first 2-3 chapters of Naruto !



Too lazy. 
All i know is that there were some fodders that kept Madara and Kyuubi busy till Yondaime came to deal with them.


----------



## Morgan (Mar 22, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> that's a bad example to give. We humans came from monkeys according to the myth, yet we're much more advanced than them.
> 
> Rinnegan is "greater" but the sharingan is stronger battle wise.



You know, not everyone believes that monkey shit, example me, so don't use that analogy to refute mine. You're just as bad.

Plus, how is the rinnegan being  "greater" any different from stronger. They're the same in this case. Isn't this thread supposed to be about which one's better?

I go with the Rinnegan, and I still don't think, if I use your approach, that the Sharingan is "stronger" than the Rinnegan.


----------



## Black☆Star (Mar 22, 2010)

beij said:


> *Itachi>Rikudo Sennin*
> 
> a healthy Itachi can maintain Susano for more than long enough to kill Rikudo with Sword of Totsuka, which blitzed Orochimaru so badly he could not even see it coming at all. and great speed is not required to take out a biju, only great power ex amarterasu against the hachibi; chou shinra tensei or chibuku tensei would be enough to take out Juubi. therefor Rikudo even by hype is not faster than any ninja shown in the series thus far, but only more powerful. he still could not react a protect himself from Sword of Totsuka, and the rinnagan can not help him once it has hit him. rinnegan has nothing on MS, and even less on EMS. Madara loosing to just Hashirama is riddiculous; i gurantee Madara was fighting the entire village, includding the entire Senju clan. once the Senju;s one, they spread propaganda that it was only Hashirama who fought in an attempt to make madara look weaker. even in Narutoverse there is propaganda brah. in short, Sword of Totsuka blitzes Rikudo, he gets sealed in another dimension, Itachi wins (also even if Rikido managed ot get an attack in, yata mirror would protect itachi), Sharingan>rinnegan
> 
> ...



High too much?
Rikudou only looks at them and they die


----------



## beij (Mar 22, 2010)

Sage and rinnegan create chakra, modern ninja and sharingan evolved it 

with the hax ability of the sharingan and recent manga developments, its...... 



Madara>>Kakashi>=Itachi(healthy)>Nagato>>Rikudo 

EMS Sasuke by hype would be above Kakashi 

even though Rikudo may of had more power than Nagato with Chibuju Tensei, keep in mind Nagato was dying, and was constantly exhausted due to haveing to distribut his chakra to 6 pahts). although Rikudo is overally more powerful than Nagato himself, Nagato and his 6 paths>Rikudo (Rikudo never had these paths, only rinnegan jutsu and such. he never controled dead bodies; he fought on his own, hence why it was ONLY him vs Juubi; Sasuke beat Hachibi a an amateur with Amarterasu, Madara and even Sasuke controled the Kyuubi effortlessly, and even Minato defeated the Kyuubi (minato is not on the level of any of the above listed shinobi, although he is close. Kakashi has long since surpassed him, and was only speaking in respects to his late master and bing humble himself when he said otherwise. it was quit obvious) Beating the Juubi is no big deal at all; amarterasu could probably take it, and definately Susano with artifacts. and although Rikudo has impressive power with chibuku tensei, so what? any of the above mentioned Sharingan users can kill him with their elite movs before he even has time to do chibuku tensei, or they could simpy avoid it (especially madara). of all the above shinobi, Rikudo has the least chance of deafeating Madara, who could easily warp him 

Sharingan>Rinnegan


----------



## beij (Mar 22, 2010)

also the sharingan controls tailed beast's, and easily controled the Kyuubi. the sharingan could without much difficulty control the Juubi. the rinnegan cannot control Biju. it cant even cast decent genjutsu, and has shown NO immunity to genjutsu (maybe Pains Paths since they are already dead, but the actual Rinnegan itself provides no bloodline genjutsu or genjutsu protection)

needless to say, Sharingan>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rinnegan in genjutsu


----------



## Judecious (Mar 22, 2010)

beij said:


> also the sharingan controls tailed beast's, and easily controled the Kyuubi. the sharingan could without much difficulty control the Juubi. the rinnegan cannot control Biju. it cant even cast decent genjutsu, and has shown NO immunity to genjutsu (maybe Pains Paths since they are already dead, but the actual Rinnegan itself provides no bloodline genjutsu or genjutsu protection)
> 
> needless to say, Sharingan>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rinnegan in genjutsu



stop trolling and the sharingan would only control 1 tail beast the kyuubi


----------



## beij (Mar 22, 2010)

Kyubi, the greatest

also considering the Juubi's eye is half rinnegan/half sharingan fusion or whatever, the sharingan with its bloodline genjutsu could control that too

once again, the sharingan is a combination of the rinnegan and the juubi's eye, making it the evolution of both


----------



## Skeith (Mar 22, 2010)

This is getting out of hand.


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Mar 22, 2010)

Nagatosama said:


> No, even Madara needs Rinnegan in order to have a chance to win the war(if sharingan was superior to rinnegan battle-wise, he simply could've looked for another sharingan...)





Madara explains everything, in a nutshell right here, he is stockpiling good eyes. 

Madara currently does not have any power as he stated quite often, however Tsuchikage, in that same pannel stated "As Powerful as you are, you should be able to execute any plan without hitch." Meaning if Current Madara had his eye power intact than he would not even need to due what currently is doing. He would be able to do whatever he pleases.


----------



## Skeith (Mar 22, 2010)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Madara explains everything, in a nutshell right here, he is stockpiling good eyes.
> 
> Madara currently does not have any power as he stated quite often, however Tsuchikage, in that same pannel stated "As Powerful as you are, you should be able to execute any plan without hitch." Meaning if Current Madara had his eye power intact than he would not even need to due what currently is doing. He would be able to do whatever he pleases.



No one else knew about Pain's eyes. Even the people in his village didn't know what he had or what he look like. 

They do however, know about Madara and his eyes.


----------



## Morgan (Mar 22, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> and nobody gives a shit what you think, for example me  because this post wasn't directed at you, but someone else.
> Comprende?



Oh I'm sorry, I just assumed like anybody else would (and not because of the obvious quotation) that your little prattling was directed at me.

It doesn't matter anyway. You could be talking to your mother, *I* am talking to you. I've said what I had to. Pardon me if I don't see the essence in pointing out the obvious to substantiate "_*what I think*_. I'm  lazy."


----------



## Scizor (Mar 22, 2010)

To answer the topic creators question, stated in the thread title:

I think they are.


----------



## ? (Mar 22, 2010)

this will never be settled. people will just vote for the eye they like most.


----------



## Selva (Mar 22, 2010)

beij said:


> Kyubi, the greatest
> 
> also considering the Juubi's eye is half rinnegan/half sharingan fusion or whatever, the sharingan with its bloodline genjutsu could control that too
> 
> once again, the sharingan is a combination of the rinnegan and the juubi's eye, making it the evolution of both


  tell me you're trolling please!
I didn't intend to respond any more to this pointless discussion but your post is just too much for me!
Do you honestly believe what you just wrote?
- Kyuubi the greatest MY ASS!! The Juubi is the greatest! The Kyuubi is a tiny little part of the Juubi!
-  Juubi's eye is half Rinnegan/half sharingan fusion then can be controlled by a Sharingan! NO cause that is your assumption!
- Sharingan is a combination of Rinnegan and Juubi's eye! lol wut! 

"The astonishing feat of not only successfully sealing the Ten-Tails, but also suppressing it, made the Sage a god-like hero throughout the shinobi world" ---> a feat by the great Rikudo who had the Rinnegan. No feat up until now was able to beat that. Not even Madara with his EMS.


----------



## OrarkCray (Mar 22, 2010)

I think the Sharingan definatly wins in a creepy eye contest.



Harry Balzac said:


> that's a bad example to give. We humans came from monkeys according to the myth, yet we're much more advanced than them.
> 
> Rinnegan is "greater" but the sharingan is stronger battle wise.



Evelution isn't a myth.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 22, 2010)

...so on top of everything, Harry, you're a Creationist.

...dear god...you're a blackhole of stupidity.


----------



## John Connor (Mar 22, 2010)

monkeys and humans are more like brothers/cousins

we both came from the same ancestor


----------



## Fatstogey (Mar 22, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> I'm going to assume you're trolling.
> 
> And EMS has what that makes it better than the MS? Nothing confirmed yet. We've had the Rinnegan called the top in the manga itself.



Yea but rinnegan itself isnt badass alone, it needs a good wielder.  Which it hasnt had.  If you can even assume that Pain is more badass than Madara then fuckin TROLL u.  Pain was a whinny lil fucking pussy.  Madara is too but at least he was a warrior before he was a whinny lil pussy.  Pain has always been a whinny lil pussy.  

And not its not a troll fanboys its cannon.  Dude was a freakin whinny misguided baby whos ideals were so weak they got crushed by talk no jutsu.  Fuck pain.  ON to a real villain please.  Thank god Madara can use Rinnegan. Now we can finally see what it will really do.


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Mar 22, 2010)

Skeith said:


> No one else knew about Pain's eyes. Even the people in his village didn't know what he had or what he look like.
> 
> They do however, know about Madara and his eyes.



Do you just reply just to hear yourself speak? What does what you saying have to do with what I wrote? You did this before by the way.

Really explain to me what connects your post to mine, Is I am having a hard time trying to connect the two.


----------



## Bentham (Mar 23, 2010)

Man, i cant believe that uchiha fans are serious. Im seriously dumbfounded. SO if kishi was to say in an interview

"Um....i clearly stated in my fucking manga that the Rinnegan was the supreme doujutsu, through jiraiya and pa.....and the fact that Madara saying that Rinnegan is above MS in deciphering i meant to clearly imply that it was superior to MS....and the fact that it has the godliest techniques yet shown, and the fact that i had to have the last user kill himself because i just couldn't think of a way for the main character to defeat such godliness..and the fact that the last Rinnegan user was the only one to destroy konoha completly, and the fact that the eyes are set up as prophetic eyes that only occur once in every gazillion generations, and the fact that I said that they are a tool from heaven, and the fact that the fanbook clearly stated that out of all the 3 dojoutse, rinnegan is SUPREME..................What else can I actually say or show that I meant Rinnegan to be a different class that MS, or EMS, or Byakugan or any other Bullshit????I mean shit, have I really created such unreasonable Uchihatards with my previous Uchiha wanking???Forgive me for creating such irrational Uchiatards!!!!""

Then, Kishimoto Masashi commits Seppuku out of great shame for creating the most unreasonable creatures on earth, Uchihatards!!!

PS...I love sharingan more than rinnegan, I think its techniques are way cooler than rinnegan's.....but I can still admit that it is inferior


----------



## OrarkCray (Mar 23, 2010)

Harry Balzac said:


> lmao the irony...



I see none.


----------



## Euraj (Mar 23, 2010)

OrarkCray said:


> I see none.


When you start attacking the messenger, you lose the fight, especially if it's over something that has almost nothing to do with the topic. I'm a Christian, down to the bone, but Harry and I have different opinions on the subject. The Naruto World and ours are not synchronized. Evolutionary theory and Creationism don't belong in this section.


----------



## Smokahontas (Mar 23, 2010)

Guys, its so simple

*RINNEGAN>SHARINGAN.*


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Mar 23, 2010)

Bentham said:


> Man, i cant believe that uchiha fans are serious. Im seriously dumbfounded. SO if kishi was to say in an interview


I am seriously dumbfounded by your post.



> "Um....i clearly stated in my fucking manga that the Rinnegan was the supreme doujutsu, through jiraiya and pa.....and the fact that Madara saying that Rinnegan is above MS in deciphering i meant to clearly imply that it was superior to MS....and the fact that it has the godliest techniques yet shown, and the fact that i had to have the last user kill himself because i just couldn't think of a way for the main character to defeat such godliness..and the fact that the last Rinnegan user was the only one to destroy konoha completly, and the fact that the eyes are set up as prophetic eyes that only occur once in every gazillion generations, and the fact that I said that they are a tool from heaven, and the fact that the fanbook clearly stated that out of all the 3 dojoutse, rinnegan is SUPREME..................What else can I actually say or show that I meant Rinnegan to be a different class that MS, or EMS, or Byakugan or any other Bullshit????I mean shit, have I really created such unreasonable Uchihatards with my previous Uchiha wanking???Forgive me for creating such irrational Uchiatards!!!!""


Jiraiya and Pa, words can be taken with a grain of salt, as they do not know everything they're is to know about either dojutsu. Thus they're assumption is invalid. Jiraiya in part 1 couldn't even reckonize Amaterasu when he saw it.
They're knowledge of the sharigan overall is questionable. As even Sasuke, a Uchiha himself, didn't even know all the secrets of the sharingan, its secrets are still being unraveled as he goes on.

Madara statment only suggested that the Rinegan was superior to the sharingan in deciphering THE TEXT LEFT BY THE RIDOKU SANNIN. Which only makes sense considering, the Ridoku was a Rinegan user, thus would most likely leave the text so that it could only be read entirely by a Rinegan user. 

It doesn't have the godliest tech shown. In terms of destruction it is inferior to Diedara's techniques. Diedara was able to destroy villages more proficiently and with giving up part of his life span. His final explosion destroyed 10km radius, which is above 5 miles, that is WAY BIGGER THAN any explosion the Rinegan has shown.

The sharingan and it's variants techniques are superior when it comes to efficientcy and praticality. You don't need to destroy a village if your target is one guy, and the sharingan variants are designed specifically to defeat opponents. 

Finally Pein did not destroy Konoha completely, to do so you would have destroy ALL OF IT'S PEOPLE, AND PEIN FAILED MISSERABLY. Thus is why Sasuke currently has the oppurtunity. Pein didn't do much more than kill fodder, and cause mass property damage, which they are currently repairing. 
And the fact that he was defeated by a Konoha nin meant that he didn't destroy shit. 



> Then, Kishimoto Masashi commits Seppuku out of great shame for creating the most unreasonable creatures on earth, Uchihatards!!!


Yet you are the one that makes riduculous claims such as Pein completly destroyed Konoha, when he was ultimately defeated by them, and currently Konoha is rebuilding. 



> PS...I love sharingan more than rinnegan, I think its techniques are way cooler than rinnegan's.....but I can still admit that it is inferior


Yes sure you do.

Sharingan is superior based off display, feats, plot etc. etc.


----------



## Lord of Mikawa (Mar 23, 2010)

To completely throw everything off, I bet Madara will make a Sharingan/Rinnegan hybrid.


----------



## Rache (Mar 23, 2010)

Is the sky blue?


----------



## OrarkCray (Mar 23, 2010)

Euraj said:


> When you start attacking the messenger, you lose the fight, especially if it's over something that has almost nothing to do with the topic. I'm a Christian, down to the bone, but Harry and I have different opinions on the subject. The Naruto World and ours are not synchronized. Evolutionary theory and Creationism don't belong in this section.



I'm not attacking anyone. I have no negative or positive emotion from what I said. I just stated my opinion and rectified his error of calling evolution a myth. Witches and Vampires are myths, not something you can look at and are activly participating in. Even if you disagree with evolution, there's enough proof for even the pope to admit its probobly true, and should not be called a myth.

I think everyone agrees Rinnegan over Shariganawanahusit


----------



## John Connor (Mar 23, 2010)

George W Bush = Uchiha fan


----------



## toriyama (Mar 23, 2010)

Bentham said:


> Man, i cant believe that uchiha fans are serious. Im seriously dumbfounded.



I do believe, Rinnegan is stronger than Sharingan. But I don't find all the other people who say Sharingan is stronger than Rinnegan, extremely weird. We haven't reached the end of the manga, we don't really know what the "moon eye plan" really is, so it can turn either way at the end.


----------



## John Connor (Mar 23, 2010)

toriyama said:


> I do believe, Rinnegan is stronger than Sharingan. But I don't find all the other people who say Sharingan is stronger than Rinnegan, extremely weird. We haven't reached the end of the manga, we don't really know what the "moon eye plan" really is, so it can turn either way at the end.


the moon eye plan involves super powering the MS with Juubi chakra. nothing more

unless Madara was lying


----------



## Judecious (Mar 23, 2010)

uchiha fans keep saying sharingan keeps evolving and thats because theirs room to improve, while the rinnengan is where the sharingan will end up evolving to if it ever reaches that


----------



## TatsukageX (Mar 23, 2010)

I will not say my opinion

but for orochimaru
he was already in akatsuki,he knew there was a rennigan
he still wanted the sharingan though


----------



## John Connor (Mar 23, 2010)

TatsukageX said:


> I will not say my opinion
> 
> but for orochimaru
> he was already in akatsuki,he knew there was a rennigan
> he still wanted the sharingan though


how did Oro know about Rinnegan? theres really no proof

Akatsuki was created by Madara and at the end of part 1 we knew Nagato was the leader

none of that implies Oro knew about Rinnegan


----------



## Scizor (Mar 23, 2010)

reddogs52 said:


> Sauske wins because he has the sharingon, he can see kisame's movements too well for kisame to do well against sauske.



Kisame's aqua dome = drowning Sauce


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Mar 23, 2010)

naruto the best said:


> uchiha fans keep saying sharingan keeps evolving and thats because theirs room to improve, while the rinnengan is where the sharingan will end up evolving to if it ever reaches that



That doesn't make sense, considering the eldest son recieved the Rinegan from Ridoku. And the Uchiha are the decedents of the eldest son, if the sharingan keeps evolving. Wouldn't the sharingan be superior, sense it is the Rinegan that evolved to the sharingan? 

This is of course going by your logic, I for one do not believe that the Rinegan and the sharingan are evolutions of each other persay. I would say that the sharingan, is a mutated offspring of the Rinegan, that has evolved into a more offensively orrientated jutsu, due to the Uchiha's being naturally consumed by hate.


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Mar 23, 2010)

SuzumeShouken said:


> Kisame's aqua dome = drowning Sauce



Sasuke's chidori Nagashi in aqua dome = fried fish. Or in this case shark fela.


----------



## John Connor (Mar 23, 2010)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> That doesn't make sense, considering the eldest son recieved the Rinegan from Ridoku. And the Uchiha are the decedents of the eldest son, if the sharingan keeps evolving. Wouldn't the sharingan be superior, sense it is the Rinegan that evolved to the sharingan?
> 
> This is of course going by your logic, I for one do not believe that the Rinegan and the sharingan are evolutions of each other persay. I would say that the sharingan, is a mutated offspring of the Rinegan, that has evolved into a more offensively orrientated jutsu, due to the Uchiha's being naturally consumed by hate.


hahahahaha

the oldest never got Rinnegan



spiral does not equal Rinnegan

FOR THE LAST TIME


----------



## Scizor (Mar 23, 2010)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Sasuke's chidori Nagashi in aqua dome = fried fish. Or in this case shark fela.



Its proven water doesnt 'guide' electricity in the narutoverse.
Let alone water with the opponents chakra in it.


----------



## John Connor (Mar 23, 2010)

if anything water lessens the strength of raiton jutsu based off on the killer bee encounter and the kage summit


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Mar 23, 2010)

SuzumeShouken said:


> Its proven water doesnt 'guide' electricity in the narutoverse.
> Let alone water with the opponents chakra in it.



Where was was that? Because from what I remember. Suigestu when ecountering electricity, was severaly vulnerable.


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Mar 23, 2010)

John Connor said:


> hahahahaha
> 
> the oldest never got Rinnegan
> 
> ...



Didn't the manga say the eldest son was born with the SAGES EYES?
And didn't the sage have the Rinegan? Once again you fail connor.


----------



## John Connor (Mar 23, 2010)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Didn't the manga say the eldest son was born with the SAGES EYES?
> And didn't the sage have the Rinegan? Once again you fail connor.


dude... wtf

it said the oldest son had eye powers and the youngest son had body powers

NEVER did it say the oldest had Rinnegan. thats why kishi gave the oldest son a spiral design. you are really pathetic to attack me after i just proved you wrong 

you are wrong admit it

admit it 

it


----------



## MyEyes (Mar 23, 2010)

rofl
its said that the rinnegan is better than the sharingan and byakugan
when did they say better than the MANGEKYOU sharingan? or the ETERNAL mangekyou sharingan ?
the powers of the MS is just overpowered
AMATERASU 
TSUKUYOMI
SUSANO'O
rinnegan got better jutsus?
the MS is stronger and the EMS too.


----------



## toriyama (Mar 23, 2010)

John Connor said:


> the moon eye plan involves super powering the MS with Juubi chakra. nothing more
> 
> unless Madara was lying



And we still don't know if the super powering the MS with Juubi chakra is stronger or weaker than the powers of rinnegan.

Well, either way this doesn't change my opinion that rinnegan is stronger than sharingan as far as what we've been shown from the manga.


----------



## Xcorpyo001 (Mar 23, 2010)

TatsukageX said:


> I will not say my opinion
> 
> but for orochimaru
> he was already in akatsuki,he knew there was a rennigan
> he still wanted the sharingan though



Oro was to weak to take out Itachi or Pein/Nagato
So he settled for Sasuke. But even Sasuke was to much for him to handle.


----------



## John Connor (Mar 23, 2010)

Xcorpyo001 said:


> Oro was to weak to take out Itachi or Pein/Nagato
> So he settled for Sasuke. But even Sasuke was to much for him to handle.


Nagato had great eye powers but his body was shit

Oro dreamed of having the perfect body

he even abandoned the Sharingan in favor of Kimimaro's body 

Sasuke was Oro's third choice


----------



## HikariYume (Mar 23, 2010)

Oh, dearest mother of neptune, I hope not! That would mean this forum is infested with stupid people...<.<....>.>


----------



## katan667 (Mar 23, 2010)

HikariYume said:


> Oh, dearest mother of neptune, I hope not! That would mean this forum is infested with stupid people...<.<....>.>



it already is.


----------



## HikariYume (Mar 23, 2010)

katan667 said:


> it already is.



Good point :/


----------



## MyEyes (Mar 23, 2010)

John Connor said:


> how did Oro know about Rinnegan? theres really no proof
> 
> Akatsuki was created by Madara and at the end of part 1 we knew Nagato was the leader
> 
> none of that implies Oro knew about Rinnegan





oh man; really\?..
when itachi joins akatsuki 
u can see that pein has has the rinnegan...
so orochimaru is blind now or something?
he wanted the sharingan.
type in youtube : itachi joins akatsuki


----------



## Klue (Mar 23, 2010)

MyEyes said:


> oh man; really\?..
> when itachi joins akatsuki
> u can see that pein has has the rinnegan...
> so orochimaru is blind now or something?
> ...



The vid you're referring to is filler. Never happened in the manga - but I believe your point still holds weight.

It's hard to believe a guy like Orochimaru would not have recognized the Rinnegan. Even Ibiki heard of it for crying out loud.

The Rinnegan was believed not to have ever existed, but it was still considered one of the great 3 Doujutsu. Everyone at least heard of it, I'm sure.


----------



## HawkMan (Mar 23, 2010)

The oldest one had Sage eyes, and the spirals look like an off-shoot of the _Rin'negan_?? Stop denying the obvious.


----------



## Klue (Mar 23, 2010)

SuzumeShouken said:


> Its proven water doesnt 'guide' electricity in the narutoverse.
> Let alone water with the opponents chakra in it.



lol, what?


----------



## Mattaki Hitokage (Mar 23, 2010)

John Connor said:


> dude... wtf
> 
> it said the oldest son had eye powers and the youngest son had body powers
> 
> ...



well shit, we don't know what the hell to call it so we call it rinnigan. its close enough. i don't see why you poeple have to be so anal about this shit.. geeze.


----------



## Scizor (Mar 23, 2010)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Where was was that? Because from what I remember. Suigestu when ecountering electricity, was severaly vulnerable.



Dont know where exactly, but at one point Sasuke stands in water, and it doesnt guide his attack at all.

There was a thread about that not too long ago, and the conclusion was that such logic cant be applied to this particular fictional world. (The Narutoverse.)


----------



## KAKASHI10 (Mar 23, 2010)

please go and read this theory I have in my signature:



and give your input.


----------



## KAKASHI10 (Mar 23, 2010)

HikariYume said:


> Oh, dearest mother of neptune, I hope not! That would mean this forum is infested with stupid people...<.<....>.>





katan667 said:


> it already is.





HikariYume said:


> Good point :/



I agree with that


----------



## Mattaki Hitokage (Mar 23, 2010)

Super Mike said:


> Rinnegan should be better, but the fact that Sharingan is more versatile and is basically more available it is the better doujutsu. Sharingan just seem to be a lot more pratical.



how is the sharingan more practical when the rinnigan does everything the sharingan does. it allwos you to not only see chackra, but has better visual skills than byakugan, allows you to use all elements, and learn EVERY JUTSU!

Please explain your thinking....


----------



## KAKASHI10 (Mar 23, 2010)

Mattaki Hitokage said:


> how is the sharingan more practical when the rinnigan does everything the sharingan does. it allwos you to not only see chackra, but has better visual skills than byakugan, allows you to use all elements, and learn EVERY JUTSU!
> 
> Please explain your thinking....



revive the dead and you dont loose your sight


----------



## Skeith (Mar 23, 2010)

John Connor said:


> Nagato had great eye powers but his body was shit
> 
> Oro dreamed of having the perfect body
> 
> ...



No on knew that Nagato was there, all they ever saw was Deva path pain. That body look healthy to me. Also, Deva Path NEVER showed himself to the other in physcial form outside of fillers. That means Oro never had a chance to get close to those eyes.



Mattaki Hitokage said:


> well shit, we don't know what the hell to call it so we call it rinnigan. its close enough. i don't see why you poeple have to be so anal about this shit.. geeze.



Then I guess Kurenai must have Sharingan since it look close enough.


----------



## Mattaki Hitokage (Mar 23, 2010)

Skeith said:


> No on knew that Nagato was there, all they ever saw was Deva path pain. That body look healthy to me. Also, Deva Path NEVER showed himself to the other in physcial form outside of fillers. That means Oro never had a chance to get close to those eyes.
> 
> 
> 
> Then I guess Kurenai must have Sharingan since it look close enough.



you're retarded.....


----------



## Scizor (Mar 23, 2010)

KAKASHI10 said:


> revive the dead and you dont loose your sight



But can it see why kids love.. *gets shot*


----------



## Skeith (Mar 23, 2010)

Mattaki Hitokage said:


> you're retarded.....



How? By the fact I'm right?

Explain.


----------



## Mattaki Hitokage (Mar 23, 2010)

Skeith said:


> How? By the fact I'm right?
> 
> Explain.



the uchiha ancestor was a direct decendant of the rikkudo sage. therefor the similarities between their eyes makes them close enough....what you said was just.....idk.


i cant beleive im even explaing this to you.


----------



## Skeith (Mar 23, 2010)

Mattaki Hitokage said:


> the uchiha ancestor was a direct decendant of the rikkudo sage. therefor the similarities between their eyes makes them close enough....what you said was just.....idk.
> 
> 
> i cant beleive im even explaing this to you.



She could be a decendant of an Uchiha who left the clan when it first founded. That would make them close enough. I don't know why your being so anal about this.


----------



## Amrun (Mar 23, 2010)

Skeith said:


> She could be a decendant of an Uchiha who left the clan when it first founded. That would make them close enough. I don't know why your being so anal about this.



Wait, wait, are you seriously saying you think Kurenai has Sharingan?


----------



## Skeith (Mar 23, 2010)

Amrun said:


> Wait, wait, are you seriously saying you think Kurenai has Sharingan?



Oh God no! I just showing that the reason he gave earlier means nothing.


----------



## Mattaki Hitokage (Mar 23, 2010)

Skeith said:


> She could be a decendant of an Uchiha who left the clan when it first founded. That would make them close enough. I don't know why your being so anal about this.



omg fucking god dude, you win.....i give up.
i made my case and you made yours. i just hope to God that you're just trying to piss me off and you're not really serious...


----------



## Skeith (Mar 23, 2010)

Mattaki Hitokage said:


> omg fucking god dude, you win.....i give up.
> i made my case and you made yours. i just hope to God that you're just trying to piss me off and you're not really serious...



I am joking. I don't believe it, but it is possible.


----------



## hellohi (Mar 23, 2010)

Actually, Kurenai is an Uchiha. Her last name is different because of interbreeding with people that aren't Uchiha and as a result her Sharingan is really a Sharingoff because of thinning of the Uchiha blood.

I kid. I used to think she was an Uchiha when I was like 12 cuz of her genjutsu and red eyes but..she's not.


----------



## Super Naruto (Mar 23, 2010)

Rinnegan is obviously far superior.

A Sharingan user has not been up against the Rinnegan yet, but it was stated Rinnegan is the greatest of the Dojutsu...

Anyone denying it is a retard.


----------



## HawkMan (Mar 23, 2010)

The databook says similar things about both _doujutsus_, and Jiraiya's statement was stated _without_ knowledge of the _Eternal_ _Mangekyou_. You have nothing but the actions of the user's to denote superiority. Using Pain is hardly a showcase of superiority. Blowing stuff up does not denote superiority.


----------



## hellohi (Mar 23, 2010)

HawkMan said:


> The databook says similar things about both _doujutsus_, and Jiraiya's statement was stated _without_ knowledge of the _Eternal_ _Mangekyou_. You have nothing but the actions of the user's to denote superiority. Using Pain is hardly a showcase of superiority. Blowing stuff up does not denote superiority.



The Sharingan is inferior. So much supports it such as the order in which the eyes can read the tablet that the Rikudo Sennin left behind. The Sharingan also loses it's light and goes blind when overusing it in it's Mangekyou form. The user then needs *someone else's* Sharingan, *someone else's power* other than their own to continue fighting and possibly stand up to the Rinnegan.

That's not the case with the Rinnegan though. The Rinnegan can revive people and still not go blind, the Rinnegan can use life threatening jutsu and still not lose it's light. The Sharingan does and it's only *after* a Sharingan user takes a sibling's Sharingan that it does not lose it's light and attains "perfection". The Rinnegan was perfect from the start, only harming the user's body when they summoned Gedo Mazou or used things like Shinra Tensei on a large scale and even then, that user still kicked ass and was able to continue using Rinnegan abilities but for the Sharingan, once you go blind...that's it.

That is one of the important reasons why the Rinnegan > Sharingan besides the abilties it has.


----------



## Mattaki Hitokage (Mar 23, 2010)

Super Naruto said:


> Rinnegan is obviously far superior.
> 
> A Sharingan user has not been up against the Rinnegan yet, but it was stated Rinnegan is the greatest of the Dojutsu...
> 
> Anyone denying it is a retard.


you'd be surprized how many retards read this manga.



HawkMan said:


> The databook says similar things about both _doujutsus_, and Jiraiya's statement was stated _without_ knowledge of the _Eternal_ _Mangekyou_. You have nothing but the actions of the user's to denote superiority. Using Pain is hardly a showcase of superiority. Blowing stuff up does not denote superiority.



We blew up japan....we are superior...i rest my case.


----------



## beij (Mar 23, 2010)

i have already staed numorous time why sharingan is superior to rinnegan. go read some of my older posts. you people are ignorant


----------



## beij (Mar 23, 2010)

Itachi>Rikudo Sennin

a healthy Itachi can maintain Susano for more than long enough to kill Rikudo with Sword of Totsuka, which blitzed Orochimaru so badly he could not even see it coming at all. and great speed is not required to take out a biju, only great power ex amarterasu against the hachibi; chou shinra tensei or chibuku tensei would be enough to take out Juubi. therefor Rikudo even by hype is not faster than any ninja shown in the series thus far, but only more powerful. he still could not react a protect himself from Sword of Totsuka, and the rinnagan can not help him once it has hit him. rinnegan has nothing on MS, and even less on EMS. Madara loosing to just Hashirama is riddiculous; i gurantee Madara was fighting the entire village, includding the entire Senju clan. once the Senju;s one, they spread propaganda that it was only Hashirama who fought in an attempt to make madara look weaker. even in Narutoverse there is propaganda brah. in short, Sword of Totsuka blitzes Rikudo, he gets sealed in another dimension, Itachi wins (also even if Rikido managed ot get an attack in, yata mirror would protect itachi), Sharingan>rinnegan

Madara could also kill Rikudo with warping, Kakashi could Kamui Rikudo as he was more than fast enough to react to Susano arrows, which travels faster than Juubi or any living creature in Naruto Verse for that matter. heck, a raiton clone/Raikiri feint would even give Rikudo trouble. and the rinnegan offers no defense to sharingan genjutsu, yet anouther reason why Itachi owns him. Heck even Shishui could control his mind with his dojutsu, and for that matter so could Danzo, but since Shishiu is more proficient with it sue to being Uchiha, he could use it more frequetnly and really mess with Rikudo's mind

Sharingan>rinnegan

Uchiha>Senju

elite sharingan users (the ones i mentioned, as well as Sasuke when he gets EMS, and probably Izuna as well)>Rikudo. Also Madara beats Pain rather easily, and Kakashi would have if Pain did not have PNJ on his side as well as the plot armor of having to fight Naruto. healthy Itachi and Sasuke (especially with EMS) also beat him

Sharingan>rinnegan





i can elaborate alot more if need be, but the sharingan's superiorority should be obvious


----------



## beij (Mar 23, 2010)

Rinnegan EVOLVED into sharingan. Sword of Totsuka kills Rikudo, among other sharingan abilities 

also sharingan can control tailed beast’s , which rinnegan canot do. Sharingan could very easily control the juubi 

also proove that the rinnegan (not the dead bodies that are the paths of pain, but the actuall living rinnegan user) can withstand sharingan bloodline genjutsu. any genjutsu will do. but for overkill, Rikudo gets trapped in Tsukiyomi. also Madara could easily warp him 

and enough of the whole “uchiha are only half of rikudo' thing. do what? so now if somboy has two kids, even if one kid is greater than his creator, he is still not considered better because he is only half? 

the only thing that even gives Rikudo a chance against any sharingan user in the manga (Madara, Izuna, Itachi, Kakashi, Sasuke, Danzo, Shishui) is his massive chakra, but how does that save him from Tsukiyomi? from a feint followed by Kamui (Kakashi has plenty of variety as we all know, more so than Rikudo, who had all the jutsu of that era, which was probalby like 8 jutsu or somthing considering everybody eles after word evovled on it. Seriously comparing Rikudo to say, any elite uchiha, is like comparing the first monkey ever to use a stick as a weopon to a person with a Katana; maybe the chimp has more energy, but the person has the better weoponry, so the person with the Katana wins everytime) 

Sharingan>Rinnegan




also it is not difficult to defeat a tailted beast, as Sasuke easily deafeated the Hachibi as an absolute amatuer with amarterasu, all Uchiha have a fricken leesh on the Kyuubi. why not the Juubi? genjutsu, Sword of Totsuka, Amarterasu all equal the end of Juubi, as could madara’s warping and Kamui. even minato beat the Kyuubi, which although Minato is powerful, he is not on the level of any current sharingan user in the manga, and it is not even close (Kakashi respects his late sensei to the utmost, which is why out of respect he does not put him down by claiming superioriry, when in reality a feint and a Kamui, amoung other possible combo’s from Kakashi=death of Minato) 

oh, and for the last time: Tsukiyomi destroys Rikudo’s mind, or any sharingan genjutsu for that matter. Kamui rips his head off. Madara warps him with ease. just beacas Rikudo had the power to take on the juubi does not mean anything at all, as any sharingan wielder could do the same with ease. Rikudo does not have the speed to avoid Kakashi’s improved Kamui, much less Madara’s warping technique 

and once again, Genjutsu brah 

i am trying to be reasonable, but all the Rikudo hype is annoying. he does not have 6 fricken paths either, and although Rikudo>Nagato himself, he is not greater than the dead bodies and there respective abilites that are the 6 paths of pain. oh, and if Rikudo had his own paths of pain, then why did he not have them when he was fighting Juubi? because he did not have them. he did not even know what chakra rods were, as the evolved over time. Rikudo is a relic


----------



## Selva (Mar 23, 2010)

^  
omg my stomach! I can't stop laughing  
very cool story bro


----------



## Helenius (Mar 23, 2010)

BrightandDim said:


> I guess so; they are so blinded by the nerdiness -  jk - of the Sharingan that they fail to see that the rinnegan is the ultimate kekkei genkai.
> 
> I'm not saying the Sharingan sucks, nor am I saying that I loathe it [im mutual..], but Rinnegan is most definitely stronger than the Sharingan.



Plot-no-jutsu is the ultimate kekkai genkai. Fun aside... I think the Kaguya clans(Kimmimaro) kekkai genkai was to believed a superior kekkai genkai according to Orochimaru?



			
				beij said:
			
		

> also it is not difficult to defeat a tailted beast, as Sasuke easily deafeated the Hachibi as an absolute amatuer with amarterasu,



Sasuke defeated Hachibi? What manga are you reading?



> oh, and for the last time: Tsukiyomi destroys Rikudo’s mind, or any sharingan genjutsu for that matter.


Did Itachi defeat Kakashi with Tsukuyomi? Did Itachi defeat Sasuke with Tsukuyomi? Did Sasuke defeat Hachibi with Tsukuyomi?


----------



## hellohi (Mar 23, 2010)

beij said:


> Itachi>Rikudo Sennin



LOL.

I stopped reading there.

I guess Uchiha-fans really are serious when they say Rinnegan > Sharingan.


----------



## beij (Mar 23, 2010)

yeah, Rikudo created chakra. so what? cavmen created fire, and people thousands of years later created Bombs. Sharingan is the evolution of the Rinnegan, and i have already given reasons (most in the OP) why certain sharingan users defeat Rikudo. also Rikudo never had paths of pain, and if he did, why were they not in the panel of him fighting the Juubi? cause he did not have them. he did not even know what chakra rods are, cause they EVOLVED later on. Rikudo>Nagato, but i am niot convinced that he could defeat the dead bodies that are the 6 paths of pain, nuch less Madara with his unstopablle warping technique which allows him to move anywhere instanteanoeusly (no matter waht, Rikudo comes no wher near those speedfeats, as such speed is not required to deafet the juubi, only power like chibuku tensei or shinra tensei; it is not didfficult to defeat a tailed beast) 

Rikudo has no defense to Madara’s warping tech, Kamui, Itachi’s Susano and especially sword of totsuka, which blitzed orochimaro so badly he did not see it at all. and the rinnegan does not allow the user to predict movments likethe sharingan. also the rinnegan provides no defense to sharingan genjutsu; Tsukiyomi=mindrape and death. normal sharingan genjutsu would be devastating. also to address Rikudo’s greatest power feet, chibuku tensei, Madara could eisily escape it, Kakashi could either warp his way out of it, escape it with doton, or even possibly Raikiri his way out, but definately Kamui. Amarterasu could burn through Chibuju Tensei. however none of that even matters, as chibuku tensei is not instanttaeous, and Rikudo would be warped to anouther dimention long before then by either Madara, Kakashi, Itachi with Sword of Totsuka (also genjutsu), and also Shishuis eye tech. also Izanagi could be the death of anybody as long as they dont have a plot shield around them (or a sharingan) like Sasuke 

i could go on forever in regards to this topic 

Sharingan>Rinnegan 

also on a side not, Gaara is immune to All Genjutsu, as his sand disrupts the flow of chakra, and this sand is always around him, and is merged in partivle form with his skin, and disrupts all genjutsu. he can also avoid eye contact in flowating sand sphere, as eye of sand in not a normal eye, and since it is also made out of sand, it is immune to genjutsu


----------



## beij (Mar 23, 2010)

Helenius said:


> Sasuke defeated Hachibi? What manga are you reading?
> 
> 
> Did Itachi defeat Kakashi with Tsukuyomi? Did Itachi defeat Sasuke with Tsukuyomi? Did Sasuke defeat Hachibi with Tsukuyomi?



Amarterasu defeated the Hachibi (full eight tails) with ease (and Sasuke was an amateur with it at the time). Amarterasu could very eisily defeat Juubi as well (no need to use it on Kyuubi, as it is alreayd the Uchiha family pet; heck an uchiha could control the juubi with genjutsu)

Other sharingan user's have a certain degree of defense against it

KB has absolute genjutsu defense due to being a perfect jinkuriky. therefor it is possible that Rikudo as the jikuriky of the juubi could have genjutsu defense as well, but hte RINNEGAN ITSELF provides no genjutsu defense to sharingan genjutsu

Madara warps rikudo before he can even do anything anyways, and a few other sharingan users could aslo defeat rikudo with haxx, instantaneous techs (especaily Kamui)


----------



## chjam3 (Mar 23, 2010)

beij said:


> yeah, Rikudo created chakra. so what? cavmen created fire, and people thousands of years later created Bombs. Sharingan is the evolution of the Rinnegan, and i have already given reasons (most in the OP) why certain sharingan users defeat Rikudo. also Rikudo never had paths of pain, and if he did, why were they not in the panel of him fighting the Juubi? cause he did not have them. he did not even know what chakra rods are, cause they EVOLVED later on. Rikudo>Nagato, but i am niot convinced that he could defeat the dead bodies that are the 6 paths of pain, nuch less Madara with his unstopablle warping technique which allows him to move anywhere instanteanoeusly (no matter waht, Rikudo comes no wher near those speedfeats, as such speed is not required to deafet the juubi, only power like chibuku tensei or shinra tensei; it is not didfficult to defeat a tailed beast)
> 
> Rikudo has no defense to Madara’s warping tech, Kamui, Itachi’s Susano and especially sword of totsuka, which blitzed orochimaro so badly he did not see it at all. and the rinnegan does not allow the user to predict movments likethe sharingan. also the rinnegan provides no defense to sharingan genjutsu; Tsukiyomi=mindrape and death. normal sharingan genjutsu would be devastating. also to address Rikudo’s greatest power feet, chibuku tensei, Madara could eisily escape it, Kakashi could either warp his way out of it, escape it with doton, or even possibly Raikiri his way out, but definately Kamui. Amarterasu could burn through Chibuju Tensei. however none of that even matters, as chibuku tensei is not instanttaeous, and Rikudo would be warped to anouther dimention long before then by either Madara, Kakashi, Itachi with Sword of Totsuka (also genjutsu), and also Shishuis eye tech. also Izanagi could be the death of anybody as long as they dont have a plot shield around them (or a sharingan) like Sasuke
> 
> ...



Actually your story is at fault simply because it is canon that the Rinnegan was first. Then it degenerated or fell off from its power into the Sharigan which is a downgrade. Also, the Sharingan only can control the Ninetails. The Rikudo control the ten tailed beast which is absoultely more powerful by far then the ninetails. We also do not know all of Rikudo's techniques. Pain even said the Rikudo made the moon. Pain made a big ball with his techinque but his power was vastly different. Rikudo's power was more powerful than pain and it all is indicative to the moon he made and the big ball that Pain made. He said that he paled in comparison. Idk why you believe the sharingan is that powerful. Rikudo was the strongest Shinobi in history. All due to his rinnegan which is vastly more powerful than the Sharingan.

Also the tablet goes like this in deciphering it....Rinnegan>EMS Sharingan>MS>Sharingan...Canon


----------



## Pyro (Mar 23, 2010)

Going by hype.... Rinnegan>>>Sharingan

From what we've seen.... it's pretty close.

I'm still convinced that we never got to see everything the Rinnegan had to offer.


----------



## Helenius (Mar 23, 2010)

beij said:


> Amarterasu defeated the Hachibi (full eight tails) with ease (and Sasuke was an amateur with it at the time). Amarterasu could very eisily defeat Juubi as well (no need to use it on Kyuubi, as it is alreayd the Uchiha family pet; heck an uchiha could control the juubi with genjutsu)



Are you really so deluted? If Amaterasu defeated the Hachibi, how can Hachibi still be alive?

Hachibi pretended to get defeated so he could get away, manga canon

Nonetheless you ignored the rest of my post with the part where Tsukuyomi didnt defeat anyone, except fodder


----------



## Wez ★ (Mar 23, 2010)

Okay, didn't the manga state the Rinnegan can use any jutsu? If so, I'm sure it could easily use Madara's warping jutsu, and that's all Madara has at this point...

How the fudge are people still arguing over this shit?


----------



## beij (Mar 23, 2010)

Helenius said:


> Are you really so deluted? If Amaterasu defeated the Hachibi, how can Hachibi still be alive?
> 
> Hachibi pretended to get defeated so he could get away, manga canon
> 
> Nonetheless you ignored the rest of my post with the part where Tsukuyomi didnt defeat anyone, except fodder



i did not ignore anything. you did not repost it

i know Killer Bee got away, but Sasuke still easily amarterasu'd its clone body or whater. easily

bottome line: Madara warps Rikudo. simple awnser. i could go on and on with complex reasoning, but i have already been ignored. also some points some other people have brought up have alreadty beeb adressed earlier on by other people, and have also been ignored, like the tablet thing

sharingan>rinnegan, and i have leaborated on why multiple times. i will say more when i feal like it


----------



## beij (Mar 23, 2010)

Wezzy said:


> Okay, didn't the manga state the Rinnegan can use any jutsu? If so, I'm sure it could easily use Madara's warping jutsu, and that's all Madara has at this point...
> 
> How the fudge are people still arguing over this shit?



it can learn any elemental or non bloodline jutsu. Madara's warping tech is a bloodline jutsu, that only he has ever had. nuff said. so now rikudo can use Kamui? lol brah. lol


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Mar 23, 2010)

SuzumeShouken said:


> Dont know where exactly, but at one point Sasuke stands in water, and it doesnt guide his attack at all.


Then where is this at? 



> There was a thread about that not too long ago, and the conclusion was that such logic cant be applied to this particular fictional world. (The Narutoverse.)


But we've seen electricity being applified by water.

We also see electricity flow quite well through water.



I think the above pannel disproves what you are saying quite well.


----------



## Scizor (Mar 23, 2010)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Then where is this at?
> 
> 
> But we've seen electricity being applified by water.
> ...



Not really.

As it also occured that water didnt guide the electricity (I wont search for the manga page, as I have better things to do), it is inconsistent and for that doesnt support your arguement. (As wether or not itll happen seems random, a 50-50 change doesnt support your arguement.)

Kisame's aqua dome = drowning Sasuke.

But wait..
Even if Sasuke hits Kisame with that electrical attack, Sasuke still drowns. (As it isnt proven that kisame's aqua dome'll dissapear if the enemy hits kisame.).


----------



## Killing Frost (Mar 23, 2010)

We didn't get to really see alot of the Rinnegan's powers. Nagato and the bodies never used employed rinnegan's ability to master all techniques and use them in battle. The Rinnegan was stated to be the strongest, but we were never shown or told why.

Sharingan wins by default because of this.


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Mar 23, 2010)

John Connor said:


> dude... wtf
> 
> it said the oldest son had eye powers and the youngest son had body powers


No it didn't I gave you the exact quote in word for word verbadum. It stated exactly that the olders son WAS BORN WITH THE RIDOKU'S EYES.





Two different translations saying the same thing. Dude stop twisting manga statments. 



> NEVER did it say the oldest had Rinnegan. thats why kishi gave the oldest son a spiral design. you are really pathetic to attack me after i just proved you wrong


Yea it did. It stated the oldest son was BORN WITH THE SAGE'S EYES. What part are you not understanding? The Sage's eyes were indeed the Rinegan if I am not mistaken.



> you are wrong admit it
> 
> admit it
> 
> it



Yes I am wrong, when I quoted the manga word for word.





You are denying cannon admit it, admit it.


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Mar 23, 2010)

SuzumeShouken said:


> Not really.
> 
> As it also occured that water didnt guide the electricity (I wont search for the manga page, as I have better things to do), it is inconsistent and for that doesnt support your arguement. (As wether or not itll happen seems random, a 50-50 change doesnt support your arguement.)


But in that pannel, didn't it guide the electricity. 

If that pannel didn't convince you though I have another one.


Notice bee is all wet, and his arm is through suigestu?


Look at how that electricty current is flowing everywhere, it is clearly being generated through the water, not to mention why would suigestu mention weakness to lightning base attacks, if water did not conduct electricity?


I think I provided you ample enough proof to suggest what you are saying wrong, and I have still yet to see the pannel stating otherwise.






> Kisame's aqua dome = drowning Sasuke.
> 
> But wait..
> Even if Sasuke hits Kisame with that electrical attack, Sasuke still drowns. (As it isnt proven that kisame's aqua dome'll dissapear if the enemy hits kisame.).


Saskue can still swim out, ninjas have been shown to be able to hold they're breath for a while. After Kisame is dead, I doubt his water dome will still remain.


----------



## Griever (Mar 23, 2010)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Sasuke's chidori Nagashi in aqua dome = fried fish. Or in this case shark fela.



It = Fried fish + fried Sasuke.

Water can conduct electricity (it's been shown in the manga) however, if the lightning users was in something like aqua dome when he used his lightning element he would have no control over it and both the lightning user and the opponent would get there asses zapped .


----------



## DatBoiDane (Mar 23, 2010)

OMFG who's bright idea was it to start this shit again... we already disproved the sharintards and the u-chia-pets, why did yall hav to acknowledge them again... now it will not end till summer time smfh:taichou


----------



## Scizor (Mar 23, 2010)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> But in that pannel, didn't it guide the electricity.
> 
> If that pannel didn't convince you though I have another one.
> 
> ...



No matter how much proof you provide, the fact it doesnt always happen makes it inconsistent, and thus, not helping your part of the arguement.

And you can search for the thread about it, it shouldnt be too far.
I have better things to do than searching old threads/chapters 

And I doubt Kisame'll die from one chidori nagashi (sp?)..

And the dome moves with Kisame, soas long as Kisame is even barely alive, Sasuke will drown.


----------



## Sajin Komamura (Mar 23, 2010)

Nope they are serious when they say Sharingan>Rinningan when the manga itself stated clearly that the Rinningan is the strongest Dojutsu. Nothing they say surprise me anymore lol =D


----------



## beij (Mar 23, 2010)

Jiraiay does not no what he is talking about. AT ALL

it stated that the rinnegan is the 'rarest' and 'most revered'; an ancient stone age relic blade is 'rare' and 'revered', but it is inferior in battle to a modern forged katana. the rinnegan is revered, as the queen of Englands royal guard. the sharingan by comparison is the US Army combined with the taliban; superior in battle. sont mees with the uchiha. dont mess with the sharingan (i have stated in previous posts why the sharingan>rinnegan is battle, and Madara>Rikudo. Even Itachi and Kakashi could beat rikudo with their hax techniques, amougn a few other sharingan users)

also, Rikudo>Nagato, but it is quit debatable that the 6 paths of pain (the dead bodies with chakra rods)>Rikudo


----------



## Tyrion (Mar 23, 2010)

If Sharingan was better then Madara wouldn't be needing the Rin'negan then.


----------



## beij (Mar 23, 2010)

TheDarkLord said:


> If Sharingan was better then Madara wouldn't be needing the Rin'negan then.



he want to have one sharingan in his right eye, and a rinnegan in his left eye, so he can combine both of their abilities. it should be obvious


----------



## Edward Nygma (Mar 23, 2010)

I dont realy see how we can even have this argument. The rinnegans abilitys have not been explained indepth enough compared to the knowledge we have of the Sharingan, MS and EMS. 

Though as an Uchiha fan i have to admit it would be hard to compete with the ability to control the kyubi, a near invincilbe spirit warrior thingy and black flames that cant be put out. Though like i said earlyer there isnt enough info on the rinnegan


----------



## Edward Nygma (Mar 23, 2010)

TheDarkLord said:


> If Sharingan was better then Madara wouldn't be needing the Rin'negan then.



Thats not true. It would depend on what he was trying to do. Just because the rin'negan can do somthing the sharingan cant wouldnt mean that it was better just diffrent. Though it could be idk


----------



## Jesus (Mar 23, 2010)

well, apparently they are.



beij said:


> Jiraiay does not no what he is talking about. AT ALL
> 
> it stated that the rinnegan is the 'rarest' and 'most revered'; an ancient stone age relic blade is 'rare' and 'revered', but it is inferior in battle to a modern forged katana. the rinnegan is revered, as the queen of Englands royal guard. the sharingan by comparison is the US Army combined with the taliban; superior in battle. sont mees with the uchiha. dont mess with the sharingan (i have stated in previous posts why the sharingan>rinnegan is battle, and Faildara>Rikudo. Even Itachi and Kakashi could beat rikudo with their hax techniques, amougn a few other sharingan users)


----------



## Selva (Mar 23, 2010)

Pointless discussion is pointless!

For some people to even say Itachi can beat Rikudo says how much ridiculous this thread has become !

Uchiha tards are arguing about CANON facts from the manga that clearly said that Rikudo is the strongest Shinobi and that the Rinnegan is the strongest eye. Lame arguments such as "Jiraiya or Pa didn't know what they were talking about" or that "they didn't know about the true powers of the EMS" is BS and you know it!
Pa is + 800 years old! The old frog isn't gonna play around some games and assume stuff! He knows what he's talking about!
Madara is known for everyone! He showed up with his EMS and battled Hashirama and LOST! He controlled the Kyuubi! OMG WHAT A FEAT 
Guess what, Rikudo defeated the Juubi itself!

Jeez


----------



## Griever (Mar 23, 2010)

beij said:


> Itachi>Rikudo Sennin
> a healthy Itachi can maintain Susano for more than long enough to kill Rikudo with Sword of Totsuka, which blitzed Orochimaru so badly he could not even see it coming at all. and great speed is not required to take out a biju, only great power ex amarterasu against the hachibi; chou shinra tensei or chibuku tensei would be enough to take out Juubi. therefor Rikudo even by hype is not faster than any ninja shown in the series thus far, but only more powerful. he still could not react a protect himself from Sword of Totsuka, and the rinnagan can not help him once it has hit him. rinnegan has nothing on MS, and even less on EMS. Madara loosing to just Hashirama is riddiculous; i gurantee Madara was fighting the entire village, includding the entire Senju clan. once the Senju;s one, they spread propaganda that it was only Hashirama who fought in an attempt to make madara look weaker. even in Narutoverse there is propaganda brah. in short, Sword of Totsuka blitzes Rikudo, he gets sealed in another dimension, Itachi wins (also even if Rikido managed ot get an attack in, yata mirror would protect itachi), Sharingan>rinnegan



 Shinra tensei is all that's needed, itachi trys to strike Rikudou and the sword of totsuka get's repelled. shinra tensei could also beat susanoo itself, if something like Danzo's wind element attacks can rip open Susanoo's back Rikudou's shinra tensei could do what it does best and disperse Susanoo.

The function of shinra tensei is to repel and disperse, as we have seen when Pain used Shinra tensei on Naruto's FRS the the FRS's chakra was scattered, and what is susanoo but Chakra?.

Actually, Rikudou could repel Sword of totsuka and susanoo at the same time, with a big enough Shinra tensei.


Now on to this Madara bullshit your spewing. Madara has already said that he and Hashirama where rivals and where on equal ground, The belief that Madara fought all of Konoha is compleatly ridiculous.

How do you figure he's not fast though?.... the manga has mentioned nothing of his speed, If anything i'd think he'd be pretty fast, i mean he fought Juubi we've seen the other Bijuu fight and thay all have attacks that would be hard to avoid even if you're fast.



> Madara could also kill Rikudo with warping, Kakashi could Kamui Rikudo as he was more than fast enough to react to Susano arrows, which travels faster than Juubi or any living creature in Naruto Verse for that matter. heck, a raiton clone/Raikiri feint would even give Rikudo trouble. and the rinnegan offers no defense to sharingan genjutsu, yet anouther reason why Itachi owns him. Heck even Shishui could control his mind with his dojutsu, and for that matter so could Danzo, but since Shishiu is more proficient with it sue to being Uchiha, he could use it more frequetnly and really mess with Rikudo's mind
> 
> Sharingan>rinnegan



sure you say all this, but allow me to also throw some words around.

Rikudou walks into the Uchiha clans little village launches a chibaku tensei, all uchiha die .

Rikudou Vs. Itachi Rikudou flys up into the sky (compleatly out of Itachi's range) and uses Cho shinra tensei Itachi is now no more than a puddle crushed bones and goo.

Madara Vs. Rikudou. Madara's already been shown to not be compleatly  invincible (he lost his arm to whatever that root guy's name was) and that was only a root member.

Now i'm not saying this is how it'd go down, just makeing a point.



> Uchiha>Senju



Bullshit, thay where equal.



> elite sharingan users (the ones i mentioned, as well as Sasuke when he gets EMS, and probably Izuna as well)>Rikudo. Also Madara beats Pain rather easily, and Kakashi would have if Pain did not have PNJ on his side as well as the plot armor of having to fight Naruto. healthy Itachi and Sasuke (especially with EMS) also beat him
> 
> Sharingan>rinnegan


 
 Kakashi only fought 2 realms and almost died and would have died if not for the backup.



> Rinnegan EVOLVED into sharingan. Sword of Totsuka kills Rikudo, among other sharingan abilities



The Uchiha and the Senju are nothing more than fragments of the Rikudou, thay are both fragments of Rikudou's power and neither are compleat and neither can hold a candle to their ancestor.

Now saying Sasuke, Madara, Itachi > Pain is one thing, but saying thay can beat Rikudou is well.. it's pure fanfic.


----------



## KAKASHI10 (Mar 23, 2010)

beij said:


> Jiraiay does not no what he is talking about. AT ALL
> 
> it stated that the rinnegan is the 'rarest' and 'most revered'; an ancient stone age relic blade is 'rare' and 'revered', but it is inferior in battle to a modern forged katana. the rinnegan is revered, as the queen of Englands royal guard. the sharingan by comparison is the US Army combined with the taliban; superior in battle. sont mees with the uchiha. dont mess with the sharingan (i have stated in previous posts why the sharingan>rinnegan is battle, and Madara>Rikudo. Even Itachi and Kakashi could beat rikudo with their hax techniques, amougn a few other sharingan users)
> 
> also, Rikudo>Nagato, but it is quit debatable that the 6 paths of pain (the dead bodies with chakra rods)>Rikudo



I rarely say something negative in the forums, but you my friend have said one of the most retarded things in this forums, and trust me I myself have my share.

I will even signature you.


----------



## Shadow050 (Mar 23, 2010)

memocay said:


> *Nagato was made of so much FAIL that people start to doubt the Rinnegans superiority
> *
> And the Fact that Madara was Nagato´s pimp wasn´t helping either



 he was full of fail?
 _riiiiiiiight_

madara wasn't his pimp... he was his manipulator. and if being manipulated = fail... and if the doujutsu = fail because of the person... what does that mean for sasuke and the sharingan?
justasking...
cuase he's being manipulated by madara too lol.

rinnegan is the strongest. sharingan (all phases) and the byakugan are equal.

sharingan is more "powerful" it seems, but the byakugan can be used to counter everything we've seen from the sharingan thus far... yup... everything.


----------



## S (Mar 23, 2010)

*Spoiler*: __ 





beij said:


> Itachi>Rikudo Sennin
> 
> a healthy Itachi can maintain Susano for more than long enough to kill Rikudo with Sword of Totsuka, which blitzed Orochimaru so badly he could not even see it coming at all. and great speed is not required to take out a biju, only great power ex amarterasu against the hachibi; chou shinra tensei or chibuku tensei would be enough to take out Juubi. therefor Rikudo even by hype is not faster than any ninja shown in the series thus far, but only more powerful. he still could not react a protect himself from Sword of Totsuka, and the rinnagan can not help him once it has hit him. rinnegan has nothing on MS, and even less on EMS. Madara loosing to just Hashirama is riddiculous; i gurantee Madara was fighting the entire village, includding the entire Senju clan. once the Senju;s one, they spread propaganda that it was only Hashirama who fought in an attempt to make madara look weaker. even in Narutoverse there is propaganda brah. in short, Sword of Totsuka blitzes Rikudo, he gets sealed in another dimension, Itachi wins (also even if Rikido managed ot get an attack in, yata mirror would protect itachi), Sharingan>rinnegan
> 
> ...







This is why I love Uchiha tards


----------



## Judecious (Mar 23, 2010)

why is this still going


----------



## hellohi (Mar 23, 2010)

beij said:


> he want to have one sharingan in his right eye, and a rinnegan in his left eye, so he can combine both of their abilities. it should be obvious



Shut up already, you assume so much stupid shit that it isn't even funny.

That's why all your theories and paragraphs/dumb ass answers in this fucking thread pretty much get ignored because you try to prove that our assumption that the Rinnegan is better than the Sharingan is wrong with *your own* assumptions.

It's okay to shut the fuck up.


----------



## memocay (Mar 23, 2010)

Shadow050 said:


> he was full of fail?
> _riiiiiiiight_
> 
> madara wasn't his pimp... he was his manipulator. and if being manipulated = fail... and if the doujutsu = fail because of the person... what does that mean for sasuke and the sharingan?
> ...



I stopped reading at the Byakugan part  !


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 23, 2010)

_Kamui, Izanagi, Tsukuyomi Amaterasu, Susano'o,_ and the _Kyubi._

Can you imagine someone with Nagato's stamina using those techniques? Force, absorption, and a the other handful of powers granted by the Rinnegan can suck a fat one to having _Susano'o_ up for a few hours and using those techniques multiple times while having the Kyubi back you up.

The overall abilities of the Sharingan _rape_ the Rinnegan.


----------



## Scizor (Mar 23, 2010)

Soloman said:


> _Kamui, Izanagi, Tsukuyomi Amaterasu, Susano'o,_ and the _Kyubi._
> 
> Can you imagine someone with Nagato's stamina using those techniques?



No. **


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 23, 2010)

Soloman said:


> _Kamui, Izanagi, Tsukuyomi Amaterasu, Susano'o,_ and the _Kyubi._
> 
> Can you imagine someone with Nagato's stamina using those techniques? Force, absorption, and soul-leeching can suck a fat one in comparison to that.


Again you prove you're nothing but a Uchihatard, Solomon. Why couldn't your banning be longer?


----------



## hellohi (Mar 23, 2010)

SuzumeShouken said:


> No. **



This.**


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 23, 2010)

Wow, the logic of Pein fans can not be denied!


----------



## Judecious (Mar 23, 2010)

Soloman said:


> Wow, the logic of Pein fans can not be denied!



rinnengan makes juubi its bitch once sharingan does that come talk


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 23, 2010)

naruto the best said:


> rinnengan makes juubi its bitch once sharingan does that come talk



Wrong. _Rikodou_ beat the Jyubi, not his eyes. Nagato, on the other hand, had those eyes, and was being pushed around by an 80% Kyubi. Nagato plainly stated how overwhelmingly powerful the Kyubi was by itself let alone dealing with someone with enough stamina to use _Susano'o_ and _Kamui_ indefinitely.


----------



## Judecious (Mar 23, 2010)

Soloman said:


> Wrong. _Rikodou_ beat the Jyubi, not his eyes. Nagato, on the other hand, had those eyes and was being pushed aroud by an 80% Kyubi.



and i believed he said he could make a bigger one to captured the 8 tail


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 23, 2010)

Solomon, you're a troll. Stop posting and save yourself the embarassment of being a fanboy.


----------



## hellohi (Mar 23, 2010)

Soloman said:


> Wrong. _Rikodou_ beat the Jyubi, not his eyes. Nagato, on the other hand, had those eyes, and was being pushed around by an 80% Kyubi.



Madara had the Kyuubi under his control with EMS and still lost to Hashirama. What's your point? And Madara supposedly had the strongest chakra out of all the Uchiha clan, again..what's your point?


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 23, 2010)

hello_hiッ said:


> Madara had the Kyuubi under his control with EMS and still lost to Hashirama. What's your point? And Madara supposedly had the strongest chakra out of all the Uchiha clan, again..what's your point?



Are you suggesting Nagato wouldn't lose to Hashirama yet was an underling of a vastly weakened Madara?


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 23, 2010)

Soloman said:


> Are you suggesting Nagato wouldn't lose to Hashirama yet was an underling of a vastly weakened Madara?


...not really an underling. Madara was the guy who worked in the shadows and Nagato was the face of Akatsuki. They had really equal standing in the organization.

And yes, Nagato would destroy Hashirama. His abilities are just too hax.


----------



## Judecious (Mar 23, 2010)

Soloman said:


> Are you suggesting Nagato wouldn't lose to Hashirama yet was an underling of a vastly weakened Madara?



lol madara isnt shit, in every major fight hes been in he has always needed the  kyuubi, and did i say nagato will beat hashirama no.
proof that madara is all hype. madara+kyuubi got stomped by shodai


----------



## Scizor (Mar 23, 2010)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Solomon, you're a troll. Stop posting and save yourself the embarassment of being a fanboy.





Soloman said:


> They see me trollin'
> They hatin'
> Patrollin'
> they tryin' to catch me trollin'. dirty.
> ...



**


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 23, 2010)

I'd like to see some actual proof of Madara and Hashirama's strengths that didn't rely on their bijuu/Kyuubi control.


----------



## Selva (Mar 23, 2010)

at this thread!
It's so full of BS it isn't even funny! I hope the mods close it already!

The OP got his answer that the Uchihatards really think the sharingan is better than the Rinnegan.
Thread is answered, so please mods close it


----------



## Scizor (Mar 23, 2010)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> I'd like to see some actual proof of Madara and Hashirama's strengths that didn't rely on their bijuu/Kyuubi control.



Wood style no jutsu 4 Hashirama. 
TnJ & Space/time 4 Madara.


----------



## hellohi (Mar 23, 2010)

Soloman said:


> Are you suggesting Nagato wouldn't lose to Hashirama yet was an underling of a vastly weakened Madara?



I'm talking about how you said before, "imagine someone with chakra like Nagato using MS". Madara had the strongest chakra ever seen in the Uchiha clan and he had EMS along with the Kyuubi and still got shat on.


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 23, 2010)

Proof that Nagato could even beat the Kyubi let alone an army of Bijuu on top of Hashirama and Madara who were formidable in their own right? Hashirama having power far greater than Yamato on top of deadly Genjutsu and Madara possessing the Mangyekou Sharingan and its techniques? 

You guys go in tot he Battedome and make a Nagato v Itachi & Kyubi thread. I guarantee it will be locked because it's unfair matchup for Nagato. That right there tells you which doujutsu is more powerful and that's not even _Madara_ who is all but invincible. Nagato wouldn't defeat either Konoha forefather.


----------



## Judecious (Mar 23, 2010)

Soloman said:


> Proof that Nagato could even beat the Kyubi let alone an army of Bijuu on top of Hashirama and Madara who were formidable in their own right? Hashirama having power far greater than Yamato on top of deadly Genjutsu and Madara possessing the Mangyekou Sharingan and its techniques?
> 
> You guys go in tot he Battedome and make a Nagato v Itachi & Kyubi thread. I guarantee it will be locked because it's unfair matchup for Nagato. That right there tells you which doujutsu is more powerful and that's not even _Madara_ who is all but invincible.



itachi and kyuubi where did you get that bullshit


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 23, 2010)

And Nagato could beat Kyubi. Hell, his Chibaku Tensei that was designed to hold a Six Tailed Kyubi kept the Eight Tails from completely breaking out. 

And genjutsu _will not work on Nagato_. Solomon, stop trolling. You were banned for that, remember?

And even suggesting that Itachi could beat Nagato/Pain is completely idiotic.


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 23, 2010)

Make a battledome thread then. You'll lose.


----------



## ? (Mar 23, 2010)

preta>bijuu.

bijuu are _nothing but chakra_.


----------



## Klue (Mar 23, 2010)

Soloman said:


> Make a battledome thread then. You'll lose.



If the Rinnegan fans suffered a lost, it wouldn't have even the slightest thing to do with anything you could manage to come up with.



Soloman said:


> You guys go in tot he Battedome and make a Nagato v Itachi & Kyubi thread. I guarantee it will be locked because it's unfair matchup for Nagato. That right there tells you which doujutsu is more powerful and that's not even _Madara_ who is all but invincible. Nagato wouldn't defeat either Konoha forefather.



The Sharingan is greater than the Rinnegan, because Nagato is more than likely, not as strong as Madara was 80 years ago.

Right.

As of today, a Rinnegan user (Rikudou) is still the strongest shinobi that ever existed. I guess *that right there* proves the Rinnegan's superiority over the Sharingan.

That's the logic you bring to the table.

EPIC FAIL - go away!


----------



## Skeith (Mar 23, 2010)

Nagato erased everything related to Hanzou by himself, Destroy the whole leaf village by himself, created the statue that can seal all nine beast by himself, Killed thousands by himself, revived the dead by himself.

What did Marada do with the Nine-tails? Lose to one man and failed to destroy the leaf village.........twice.


Even now, I haven't see him kill one person by himself.


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Mar 23, 2010)

Griever said:


> It = Fried fish + fried Sasuke.


Sasuke on several occasion has shown to have some type of immunity to Raiton or atleast being able to redirect it.







In fact Bee, specifically stated he defused the lightning with his body.





> Water can conduct electricity (it's been shown in the manga) however, if the lightning users was in something like aqua dome when he used his lightning element he would have no control over it and both the lightning user and the opponent would get there asses zapped .


But we've seen lightning conducted through water before, hit Sasuke, and he was hardly fazed by it.


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 23, 2010)

Klue said:


> The Sharingan is greater than the Rinnegan, because Nagato is more than likely, not as strong as Madara was 80 years ago.



No, Nagato isn't as strong as the Kyubi that the Mangyekou controls. There's no argument here. Immortality, intangibility, warping, invincibility, illusion... not necessary arguments. The Kyubi is all I need to mention.


----------



## Superstars (Mar 23, 2010)

Only delusional uchiha fanboys believe the sharingan is better than the Rinnengan when the manga has said otherwise.

lol, who cares if a sharingan user can control the kyubbi a mutherfreakin Rinnengan user beat the JYUUBI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

food for thought lame brains grab a plate.


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 23, 2010)

Jiraiya didn't even know about the _Mangyekou Sharingan_


----------



## Superstars (Mar 23, 2010)

who cares we seen how the rinnengan is better. Don't tell me you are a uchiha fanboy?


----------



## Judecious (Mar 23, 2010)

Superstars said:


> who cares we seen how the rinnengan is better. Don't tell me you are a uchiha fanboy?



cant you already tell he is


----------



## Mio (Mar 23, 2010)

Rinnegan is the most haxxed. It can turn fodder into Top-tier just because they posses it.


Sharingan requires more skill to use. You can be from a weakling like Obito to a very powerful Uchiha like Itachi, Sasuke, Madara etc. with enough skill.


Rinnegan is obviously better than the Sharingan, also than the Mangekyou  but not so obviously.


Not sure about the Eternal Mangekyou though.


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 23, 2010)

Superstars said:


> who cares we seen how the rinnengan is better. Don't tell me you are a uchiha fanboy?



I'm merely pointing out that your statement was retarded. I wouldn't want that to catch on with Pein fans. We've seen the Mangyekou in the hands of children or the late stafe terminally ill and we've seen the Rinnegan in the hands of someone in his prime who uses powerful bodies that are not his own.

Give Itachi or Sasuke Nagato's stamina and decades more experience and see which one is better. Unless you think stamina is part of the Rinnegan's power? As for the Eternal Mangyekou Sharingan, well, I think we both know that's going to outclass the Rinnegan.


----------



## Superstars (Mar 23, 2010)

Soloman said:


> I'm merely pointing out that your statement was retarded. I wouldn't want that to catch on with Pein fans. We've seen the Mangyekou in the hands of children or the late stafe terminally ill and we've seen the Rinnegan in the hands of someone in his prime who uses powerful bodies that are not his own.
> 
> Give Itachi or Sasuke Nagato's stamina and decades more experience and see which one is better. Unless you think stamina is part of the Rinnegan's power? As for the Eternal Mangyekou Sharingan, well, I think we both know that's going to outclass the Rinnegan.



If if's and but's were candy and nuts hell we'd all have a merry christmas.

Rinnengan > Sharingan


----------



## copycat123 (Mar 23, 2010)

Soloman said:


> I'm merely pointing out that your statement was retarded. I wouldn't want that to catch on with Pein fans. We've seen the Mangyekou in the hands of children or the late stafe terminally ill and we've seen the Rinnegan in the hands of someone in his prime who uses powerful bodies that are not his own.
> 
> Give Itachi or Sasuke Nagato's stamina and decades more experience and see which one is better. Unless you think stamina is part of the Rinnegan's power? *As for the Eternal Mangyekou Sharingan, well, I think we both know that's going to outclass the Rinnegan*.



Sorry to burst your bubble, but we don't know that yet.

All we do know is that madara supposedly with EMS and his peak form lost to Shodai (so badly that he still hasn't recovered completely)

And both shodai and madara descended from rikudo sennin who apparently didn't have byakugan or sharingan but the rinnegan. 

now of course when it comes to rikudo sennin, his physical or body/energy was as important as his eye power and the territory between his doujutsu or body energy starts to blur. 

however that is also true in terms of sharingan where kakashi clearly tires out more than itachi or sasuke due to not having an uchiha body. And the same thing could be said for rinnegan that with the doujutsu must come the appropriate body to support it (and rikudo possessed both to establish himself the most superior shinobi upto date).

Comparing nagato to madara doesn't make sense? nagato is not the best rinnegan holder and madara so far is the best sharingan holder.

compare madara and rikudo (the best sharingan vs. the best rinnegan holder) and rikudo leaves madara in the dust. until we finally see what peak form madara reaches (if he ever does so).


----------



## Bentham (Mar 23, 2010)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Sasuke on *several occasion has shown to have some type of immunity to Raiton* or atleast being able to redirect it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Immunity to RAITON Gheez I was told that you were one of the greatest Uchihatards but wow....that is just trolling to the extreme


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Mar 23, 2010)

copycat123 said:


> Sorry to burst your bubble, but we don't know that yet.
> 
> All we do know is that madara supposedly with EMS and his peak form lost to Shodai (so badly that he still hasn't recovered completely)
> 
> ...


It does make sense, as Nagato is the BEST REPESENTATION OF THE RINEGAN ALONE. The Ridoku had so many amplifiers that, it is not even funny. A body to match his eyes, and the strongest entity in the Naruto verse sealed in his body. 

If all Nagato's powers consisted entirely from the Rinegan than he would be the best representation, thus it is perfectly fair to compare him to Madara. Madara has no alternate power source other than the sharingan, no biju inside his body, no superpowered body etc. etc.



> compare madara and rikudo (the best sharingan vs. the best rinnegan holder) and rikudo leaves madara in the dust. until we finally see what peak form madara reaches (if he ever does so).


That is not a far comparasison, until Madara gets the Jubi sealed inside him. If Madara achieves his goal then that would be a more fair comparson, and even still it would not be entirely true due to sage having a matching body.

Madara and Pein is more a fair match up as, they are not God like entities, and neither do they possess one in their blood stream. There main power derives from one source their eyes, thus they are the best comparison.


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Mar 23, 2010)

Bentham said:


> Immunity to RAITON Gheez I was told that you were one of the greatest Uchihatards but wow....that is just trolling to the extreme



Obviously a troll post, from a rather new troll on the block, I suggest you find another hobby kid.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Mar 24, 2010)

Bentham said:


> Immunity to RAITON Gheez I was told that you were one of the greatest Uchihatards but wow....that is just trolling to the extreme



Uhm...how is it trolling if he provided examples that exactly supported what he said?



Skeith said:


> Nagato erased everything related to Hanzou by himself, Destroy the whole leaf village by himself, created the statue that can seal all nine beast by himself, Killed thousands by himself, revived the dead by himself.
> 
> What did Marada do with the Nine-tails? Lose to one man and failed to destroy the leaf village.........twice.
> 
> Even now, I haven't see him kill one person by himself.



Madara himself has stated he's not up to his full strength right now. 

It's also safe to say that he's killed a helluva lot of people in his life, considering the fact that he was the most powerful Uchiha (we actually did see him kill his best friend and the implied killing of his brother) and LED THE CLAN. He and Hashirama were the two most powerful men known in the shinobi world. I doubt he achieved that status by twiddling his thumbs.

If you're going to assume Nagato killed THOUSANDS (a total throwaway number) when he attacked Konoha, how can you say that because we never saw Madara kill anyone (which is a lie), he's helpless? We didn't see Nagato off each and every one of them, just as we didn't see Madara kill every shinobi he ever did in the wars. You can't assume Nagato's kill points and claim Madara has none when you have info like that. 

And while I'm here, we have no indication that Madara took on Minato, so we can't say he 'lost' against him. From what we know, he sicced the Kyuubi on the village and retreated. He still got at least half of what he wanted.


----------



## Lord of Mikawa (Mar 24, 2010)

I hope Madara takes the Rinnegan so this conversation can be killed.


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 24, 2010)

I'm pretty sure if Madara wanted the Rinnegan he would have pulled them out of Nagato's head. He's intangible, can teleport, and knows Nagato's secret. But he doesn't want the Rinnegan, he wants Uchiha Madara's power, his power.


----------



## Animus (Mar 24, 2010)

The problem with the Rinnegan is that it has little inherent ability (it has a very limited ability to see chakra, and that's it). So we have to look at the techniques it grants:

The problem here is that in order to achieve the peak of power that the Rinnegan offers, you basically have to cripple yourself. Which is worse than going blind, because as Tousen taught us, being blind makes you even more badass.


----------



## Klue (Mar 24, 2010)

Soloman said:


> No, Nagato isn't as strong as the Kyubi that the Mangyekou controls. There's no argument here. Immortality, intangibility, warping, invincibility, illusion... not necessary arguments. The Kyubi is all I need to mention.



Yet, another Rinnegan user approached the Juubi and won; therefor, solidifying himself as a God of shinobi in the process.

Your logic is shit.



Soloman said:


> I'm pretty sure if Madara wanted the Rinnegan he would have pulled them out of Nagato's head. He's intangible, can teleport, and knows Nagato's secret. But he doesn't want the Rinnegan, he wants Uchiha Madara's power, his power.



I'm pretty sure Madara does want the Rinnegan, that is why he will attempt to recover it in the upcoming chapters.


----------



## niyesuH (Mar 24, 2010)

Sasuke_Bateman said:


> Sharingan is better



This                **


----------



## seastone (Mar 24, 2010)

Rinnegan is the strongest. However a skilled MS user can defeat a less skilled rinnegan user.


----------



## copycat123 (Mar 24, 2010)

Soloman said:


> I'm pretty sure if Madara wanted the Rinnegan he would have pulled them out of Nagato's head. He's intangible, can teleport, and knows Nagato's secret. But he doesn't want the Rinnegan, he wants Uchiha Madara's power, his power.




So in other words you are interpreting madara's statement like this:

"Should I recover the rinnegan for the war because I don't want the rinnegan"? - Yeah, this logic is too "high" for me.


----------



## copycat123 (Mar 24, 2010)

Animus said:


> The problem with the Rinnegan is that it has little inherent ability (it has a very limited ability to see chakra, and that's it). So we have to look at the techniques it grants:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Except toussen can do stuff when he is blind (if you mean the guy from bleach.....). Uchihas on the other hand are finished after that unless they can steal their sibling's eyes. *


----------



## beij (Mar 24, 2010)

lets make this simple:

before Rikudo can even do an attack, Madara warps his to another dimention with his INSTANTANEOUS warping technique. Rikudo has NO defense to that. AT ALL

there are other sharingan users who could defeat Rikudo with feats (space/time techniques and tsuedo genjutsu's), but i decided to makethisa little simpler for you ignorant minds (at least in regards to his topic)


----------



## GreenTeaMmm (Mar 24, 2010)

have the eyes fight...rinnengan will last forever, sharingan will tire out, spam MS abilities and go blind. chalk one up for rinnengan


----------



## beij (Mar 24, 2010)

GreenTeaMmm said:


> have the eyes fight...rinnengan will last forever, sharingan will tire out, spam MS abilities and go blind. chalk one up for rinnengan



eyes need people to fight. in that case, Kamui takes this, or madara's warping tech


----------



## Deshwitat (Mar 24, 2010)

At the time of activation, the Mangekyou Sharingan is stronger, because as far as we know, the Rin'negan does not automatically grant jutsu's, only a huge amount of chakra and the potential to become powerful. 

However, the potential of the Rin'negan is far beyond atleast the regular Mangekyou. Mastery over the seven paths, Ninjutsu from every element, "Senju body". Then we have its ultimate techniques, "Chou" Shinra Tensei, Chibaku Tensei, Gedo Rinne Tensei no Jutsu and Gedo Mazo, all of which are a great match for, not to say they surpasses,  Susano'o, Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi. And none of these jutsus are even remotely close to the Rin'negan's true power; the power over life and death. 

And stop fooling yourselves. Madara's intangibility is not likely granted by the Sharingan, or else he would've used it against Hashirama, and the Fanbook specifically states that he did not. 

That's my bet atleast. 

And as we can see in this thread, Uchiha fans are quite serious.


----------



## GreenTeaMmm (Mar 24, 2010)

beij said:


> eyes need people to fight. in that case, Kamui takes this, or madara's warping tech



reverse summon from where ever madara's technique or kamui send you.


----------



## beij (Mar 24, 2010)

GreenTeaMmm said:


> reverse summon from where ever madara's technique or kamui send you.



Kamui rips the ehad from the body, so no reverse summoning without a nervous system 

Madara could kill somone by ripping apart body parts with that warping tech, or simply kill them is his dimention, also there is no proof that reverse sujmmoning works in that dimention, or eles Fu, Torune, Sasuke , Karin and everbody eles would be able to get out with ease, which we no is not the case (Sasuke in particular is known to abuse reverse summoning as he did against Deidara; it is immposible to reverse summon out of Kamui rhelm, and it is immposible to get out at all unless you are either madara, or also posses the Kamui aka Kakashi)

GG rikudo


----------



## beij (Mar 24, 2010)

GreenTeaMmm said:


> reverse summon from where ever madara's technique or kamui send you.



oh and by the way, i rikudo makes eye contact with the sharingan, he is done (no resistence to sharingan genjutsu)


----------



## Michael Lucky (Mar 24, 2010)

lol, this thread

dont expect retarded ppl to say something with any bit of sense

I made a thread thats somewhat related to this


----------



## Griever (Mar 24, 2010)

beij said:


> lets make this simple:
> 
> before Rikudo can even do an attack, Madara warps his to another dimention with his INSTANTANEOUS warping technique. Rikudo has NO defense to that. AT ALL
> 
> there are other sharingan users who could defeat Rikudo with feats (space/time techniques and tsuedo genjutsu's), but i decided to makethisa little simpler for you ignorant minds (at least in regards to his topic)



 Good god and you say we have the ignorant minds.

Rikudou has no defense against Madara's Space/Time you say?. That's right,  i remember he didn't have a single jutsu that could keep up with Madara's space/time that he showed in the Rikudou arc.... Wait a second, oh that's right there wasn't a rikudou arc  we still have no idea what kinda jutsu Rikudou had now do we?.




beij said:


> eyes need people to fight. in that case, Kamui takes this, or madara's warping tech



....... Sure, in fanfic....


----------



## micvic (Mar 24, 2010)

Rinnegan>sharingan

Simply because the manga stated that the sharingan is a blood thinned version of the rinnegan. Madara said it himself when he wanted to talk to naruto. I guess you don't need more then 2 braincells to understand that when the bloodline gets thinner the power decreases compared to the original (the rinnegan)


----------



## Skeith (Mar 24, 2010)

PikaCheeka said:


> It's also safe to say that he's killed a helluva lot of people in his life, considering the fact that he was the most powerful Uchiha (we actually did see him kill his best friend and the implied killing of his brother) and LED THE CLAN. He and Hashirama were the two most powerful men known in the shinobi world. I doubt he achieved that status by twiddling his thumbs.
> 
> *If you're going to assume Nagato killed THOUSANDS (a total throwaway number) when he attacked Konoha, how can you say that because we never saw Madara kill anyone (which is a lie), he's helpless? *We didn't see Nagato off each and every one of them, just as we didn't see Madara kill every shinobi he ever did in the wars. You can't assume Nagato's kill points and claim Madara has none when you have info like that.
> 
> And while I'm here, we have no indication that Madara took on Minato, so we can't say he 'lost' against him. From what we know, he sicced the Kyuubi on the village and retreated. He still got at least half of what he wanted.





Returning all the souls that was killed, looks like a thousand or so.

Beat him by warping? 1) He need to touch you to warp. 2) Warping doesn't kill.

Also, I don't recall Madara knowing Pain's secret body.


----------



## Super Naruto (Mar 24, 2010)

MaskedMenace said:


> However a skilled MS user can defeat a less skilled rinnegan user.



Lol you do have some awesome dreams fella!


----------



## Selva (Mar 24, 2010)

beij said:


> lets make this simple:
> 
> before Rikudo can even do an attack, Madara warps his to another dimention with his INSTANTANEOUS warping technique. Rikudo has NO defense to that. AT ALL
> 
> there are other sharingan users who could defeat Rikudo with feats (space/time techniques and tsuedo genjutsu's), *but i decided to makethisa little simpler for you ignorant minds* (at least in regards to his topic)



This thread has turned into a place that's only good for the lulz 
Thanks Uchihatards! I think I'll bookmark this thread and read it whenever I'm feeling down


----------



## momo313 (Mar 24, 2010)

you idiots; Rinnegan > Sharingan. 

End. Of. Story.


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 24, 2010)

Skeith said:


> 2) Warping doesn't kill.



This is untrue. For many reasons. Madara has shown he can selectively warp body parts. Heads, for instance. Additionally, he can evidently warp anywhere, including alternate dimensions. Where he warps you may either kill you, such as the bottom of the ocean or outside the atmosphere, or can imprison you for life. Pein cannot reverse summon through dimensions because the chakra receptors don't cross dimensional gaps.


----------



## Griever (Mar 24, 2010)

MaskedMenace said:


> Rinnegan is the strongest. However a skilled MS user can defeat a less skilled rinnegan user.



I think that should be "A skilled EMS user can beat a less skilled Rinnegan user" i don't see MS ever liveing up to a Rinnegan even if the Rinnegan user was piss poor at useing his Rinnegan.

I can see that fight lasting untill the MS user couldn't see jack.


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 24, 2010)

You don't think a 16 year old Itachi or Sasuke could defeat a 16 year old Nagato? _Really?_ Because that _is_ a battledome thread and almost everyone believes the contrary. Like I've been saying, Nagato's doujutsu is hot shit _when compared to cripples and children._


----------



## Skeith (Mar 24, 2010)

Soloman said:


> You don't think a 16 year old Itachi or Sasuke could defeat a 16 year old Nagato? _Really?_ Because that _is_ a battledome thread and almost everyone believes the contrary. Like I've been saying, Nagato's doujutsu is hot shit _when compared to cripples and children._



Don't forget that Nagato killed Chuuin Ninja when he first awoken his eyes. And that was when *he didn't have any training as a ninja.*


Sasuke, Itachi, and Marada had training years before their eyes awaken and had others to train them in their eyes. (Family, teachers, etc.)

Nagato had to learn all his eye arts himself.


----------



## Griever (Mar 24, 2010)

Soloman said:


> You don't think a 16 year old Itachi or Sasuke could defeat a 16 year old Nagato? _Really?_ Because that _is_ a battledome thread and almost everyone believes the contrary. Like I've been saying, Nagato's doujutsu is hot shit _when compared to cripples and children._



You know, 16 year old nagato wasn't that weak, Jiraiya said that he mastered all the jutsu he tought him with ease, and learned all the elements... 

And he was also killing Jounin level shinobi before he even learned his first Ninjutsu.. there is no such Sharingan user with such power to beat high level shinobi before even learning the basics of chakra control.


----------



## Griever (Mar 24, 2010)

Skeith said:


> Don't forget that Nagato killed Chuuin Ninja when he first awoken his eyes. And that was when he didn't have any training as a ninja.
> 
> 
> Sasuke, Itachi, and Marada had training years before their eyes awaken and had others to train them in their eyes. (Family, teachers, etc.)
> ...



I thought those where Jounin?.


----------



## Skeith (Mar 24, 2010)

Griever said:


> I thought those where Jounin?.



The point is, he killed at least three trained ninjas while he himself had no training whatsoever and just using his new eyes.


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 24, 2010)

I never said that the Rinnegan takes less talent to use than the Sharingan. However, as far as the _doujutsu_ itself goes, the abilities are more even than people are willing to admit. Nagato may be stronger than the _Mangyekou_ users we've seen, but we've only seen children and cripples. 



*Sharingan Abilities*

Genjutsu
Prediction
Insight
Eidetic Memory
Tsukuyomi
Amaterasu
Kamui
Susano'o
Izanagi
Teleportation
Intangibility
Control of the Kyubi

*Rinnegan Abilities*

Unlock Elements
Limited Insight
Force Control
Chakra Absorption
Body Morphing
Soul Stripping
Dominating Chakra

*Conclusion*

Both are powerful, but if you give the Sharingan user the same amount of chakra as the Rinnegan user then that individual is going to have more at his disposal.


----------



## Skeith (Mar 24, 2010)

Soloman said:


> I never said that the Rinnegan takes less talent to use than the Sharingan
> 
> But a sixteen year old Nagato is by no means more powerful than a 16 year old Itachi or Sasuke.



You have no proof of that. 

You are just saying your opinion without putting any manga fact in it. Also, like I said before. Sasuke and Itachi had training on how to use their eyes by other people who have it as well. Nagato had to learn on his own.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 24, 2010)

What evidence do you have that Nagato could only use the full abilities of the Rinnengan by crippling himself, Solomon?

In a moment of anger, he crippled himself to control the Gedo Mazo, however, if he didn't already _lose the use of his legs_, he wouldn't have needed to do that.

And the Rinnegan is superior to the MS. Accept it. Manga fact.


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 24, 2010)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And the Rinnegan is superior to the MS. Accept it. Manga fact.



Where is this said? By a young Jiraiya three decades before he didn't even know what _Amaterasu_ was? Nagato was emaciated because he controlled six bodies at once. If we did use his original body he would be far mroe vulnerable in my humble opinion as techniques like _Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu, etc_ would become exponentially more dangerous.


----------



## Skeith (Mar 24, 2010)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> What evidence do you have that Nagato could only use the full abilities of the Rinnengan by crippling himself, Solomon?
> 
> In a moment of anger, he crippled himself to control the Gedo Mazo, however, if he didn't already _lose the use of his legs_, he wouldn't have needed to do that.
> 
> And the Rinnegan is superior to the MS. Accept it. Manga fact.



This^^

Nagato didn't cripple himself, other did. Those explosions Kunai took his legs.


Umm....He seal Amaterasu in a scroll to study and he got information about Tsukuyomi. That how he knew Tsuande could heal Kakashi and Sasuke.


----------



## Mattaki Hitokage (Mar 24, 2010)

Soloman said:


> I never said that the Rinnegan takes less talent to use than the Sharingan. However, as far as the _doujutsu_ itself goes, the abilities are more even than people are willing to admit. Nagato may be stronger than the _Mangyekou_ users we've seen, but we've only seen children and cripples.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



first off, half of the techniques are from the mangekyou which only three people in the manga have unlocked....but if you want to count the mangekyou, rinnigan is still more powerful. part of what it does is grant its user amazing chakra so stating that if a sharingan user had the same chakra would be irrelevant.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 24, 2010)

Soloman said:


> Where is this said? By a young Jiraiya three decades before he didn't even know what _Amaterasu_ was? Nagato was emaciated because he controlled six bodies at once. If we did use his original body he would be far mroe vulnerable in my humble opinion as techniques like _Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu, etc_ would become exponentially more dangerous.


By the time we learned about the Rinnegan in the manga, Jiraiya already knew of MS and said that the Rinnegan is superior. Fukasaku, a 800 year old Sage, who has seen the rise of the Uchiha Clan and the excessive use of MS, said the Rinnegan is superior.

And guess what, even in his crippled state? Nagato could use _every one_ of the Six Paths of Pain's abilities. Tsukuyomi would have no effect, Amaterasu would be eaten by Chakra absorption.

Yet, you Uchihatards ignore it.


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 24, 2010)

I don't think anyone has *ever* argued that the base Sharingan is stronger than the Rinnegan. However, the Sharingan has similar potential - _that_ I have seen people argue, and agree with myself. Sharingan users have amazing chakra, as they inherited it from Rikodou, but weak bodies.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 24, 2010)

Soloman said:


> *Sharingan Abilities*
> 
> Genjutsu
> Prediction
> ...


You forgot several powers of the Rinnegan, and you make up powers for the Sharingan.


----------



## Griever (Mar 24, 2010)

Soloman said:


> Where is this said? By a young Jiraiya three decades before he didn't even know what _Amaterasu_ was? Nagato was emaciated because he controlled six bodies at once. If we did use his original body he would be far mroe vulnerable in my humble opinion as techniques like _Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu, etc_ would become exponentially more dangerous.



Manga and Databook.
The databook says that the Rinnegan towers supreme over the other Doujutsu.

And i doubt he'd be in more danger if he wasn't crippled against an MS user, after all if he wasn't crippled he would have a shit load of Jutsu to back him up


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 24, 2010)

Soloman said:


> I don't think anyone has *ever* argued that the base Sharingan is stronger than the Rinnegan. However, the Sharingan has similar potential - _that_ I have seen people argue, and agree with myself. Sharingan users have amazing chakra, as they inherited it from Rikodou, but weak bodies.


And the Rinnegan user has inherited both of the Rikudou's abilities-Strong Chakra and Strong Body. Nagato has potentially all of the Sharingan-including MS and EMS, and Mokuton Abilities all in one in his body.


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 24, 2010)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And guess what, even in his crippled state? Nagato could use _every one_ of the Six Paths of Pain's abilities. Tsukuyomi would have no effect, Amaterasu would be eaten by Chakra absorption.



Your argument about _Tsukuyomi_ is flawed as Itachi knew of Nagato and specifically said that only Madara and Sasuke had the potential to defeat his technique. Additionally, Nagato would have to react faster than _Amaterasu_, which he may be unable to do.


----------



## Skeith (Mar 24, 2010)

Soloman said:


> Your argument about _Tsukuyomi_ is flawed as Itachi knew of Nagato and specifically said that only Madara and Sasuke had the potential to defeat his technique. Additionally, Nagato would have to react faster than _Amaterasu_, which he may be unable to do.



Tyukuyomi is sight-base Genjustu. Only Sound-base Genjustu affect Pain.

Have his body set to always absorb justu and that "react" time is null.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 24, 2010)

Soloman said:


> Your argument about _Tsukuyomi_ is flawed as Itachi knew of Nagato and specifically said that only Madara and Sasuke had the potential to defeat his technique. Additionally, Nagato would have to react faster than _Amaterasu_, which he may be unable to do.


Nagato would know of all of Itachi's abilities. And Amaterasu burns so damn slowly, it doesn't matter if he reacts too slowly.


----------



## shyakugaun (Mar 24, 2010)

Sharingan is definitely better trust me


----------



## Wez ★ (Mar 24, 2010)

Soloman said:


> Your argument about _Tsukuyomi_ is flawed as Itachi knew of Nagato and specifically said that only Madara and Sasuke had the potential to defeat his technique. Additionally, Nagato would have to react faster than _Amaterasu_, which he may be unable to do.


Seriously, what has Amaterasu actually done? I mean, of great significance, what has it done?


----------



## Skeith (Mar 24, 2010)

When did Itachi say he knew all of Pain's ability?


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 24, 2010)

shyakugaun said:


> Sharingan is definitely better trust me


No, its not. The Rinnegan, as said in the manga and databooks, is the supreme, superior dojutsu.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 24, 2010)

Skeith said:


> When did Itachi say he knew all of Pain's ability?


Never. Itachi probably never even knew who the Akatsuki Leader was.


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 24, 2010)

Wezzy said:


> Seriously, what has Amaterasu actually done? I mean, of great significance, what has it done?



Instantly disintegrated fire retardant material. Flesh isn't flame retardant.



Skeith said:


> When did Itachi say he knew all of Pain's ability?



"Rinnegan break Tsukuyomi" is implied to be false. No knowledge required.


----------



## Wez ★ (Mar 24, 2010)

Soloman said:


> Instantly disintegraed fire retardant material. Flesh isn't flame retardant.


Yeah. I said of great significance.


----------



## Skeith (Mar 24, 2010)

Soloman said:


> "Rinnegan break Tsukuyomi" is implied to be false. No knowledge required.



Didn't answer my question. Where in the manga did Itachi say *anything* about Pain's abilities.


----------



## Selva (Mar 24, 2010)

Soloman said:


> You don't think a 16 year old Itachi or Sasuke could defeat a 16 year old Nagato? _Really?_ *Because that is a battledome* thread and almost everyone believes the contrary.


This is NOT a battledome thread 
Take this whole Sharingan vs Rinnegan debate into the battledome and start a thread there.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 24, 2010)

Soloman said:


> Instantly disintegrated fire retardant material. Flesh isn't flame retardant.


And failed to burn Karin. And failed to burn a Samurai.




> "Rinnegan break Tsukuyomi" is implied to be false. No knowledge required.


The Rinnegan is the stronger Dojutsu. Nagato'd be completely unharmed by the Tsukuyomi.


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 24, 2010)

Wezzy said:


> Yeah. I said of great significance.



How is that not significant? _Amaterasu_ is arguably the fastest attack in the manga and Itachi was able to use it at such a high level that it immediately misplaced material that requires several thousand degrees to melt let alone evaporate.


----------



## The 6 Paths of Pain (Mar 24, 2010)

shyakugaun said:


> Sharingan is definitely better trust me


Rinnegan is definitely better trust me.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 24, 2010)

Soloman said:


> How is that not significant? _Amaterasu_ is arguably the fastest attack in the manga and Itachi was able to use it at such a high level that it immediately misplaced material that requires several thousand degrees to melt let alone evaporate.


And Karin was failed to be burned up by the Amaterasu. Amaterasu ain't all that great.


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 24, 2010)

Sasuke had literally just recovered from his fight where he attained the Mangyekou Sharingan. What you're doing would be equivalent to me saying that Rikodou sucked because Nagato, the fight after he attained the Rinnegan, had limited abilities. Let alone him losing to Hanzo _a decade later._


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 24, 2010)

Soloman said:


> Oh, you mean by the kid who had just awoken his Mangyekou? I'm sure Nagato could do everything the week after he had the Rinnegan as well. Pointing at Sasuke's feats do not take away from Itachi's, ma'am. He had literally just recovered from the fight where he attained the doujutsu.


...how does the fact that Sasuke just awakened his MS affect the effectiveness of the flames _after_ they've been cast, Solomon? 

And Itachi's Amaterasu castings did take a long time to burn the forest-hell we could _still see green_ while everything was burning. Not only that, it still didn't burn up Sasuke's shed skin fast enough to prevent the Oral Kiriwami.


----------



## Wez ★ (Mar 24, 2010)

Soloman said:


> How is that not significant? _Amaterasu_ is arguably the fastest attack in the manga and Itachi was able to use it at such a high level that it immediately misplaced material that requires several thousand degrees to melt let alone evaporate.


I mean something _notable_, not a general description of what Amaterasu does.


----------



## Kenpachi Fried Poultry (Mar 24, 2010)

Bah, I gave up with arguing against fanatics (tards). Even if the author were to say in an interview that this character or thing is greater than whatever it is they're a fan of, they'd still debunk because people can say anything over the internet and not get hurt.

P.S: don't bother replying to this post because I come to this forum on a monthly basis now.


----------



## HawkMan (Mar 24, 2010)

For real? Attacking Tsukyomi and Amaterasu? I'd rather have MS techniques than anything the _Rin'negan _has to offer-period. Tsuk, Amy, and _Susano'o _at my disposal?? All I would need is unlimited use.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 24, 2010)

HawkMan said:


> For real? Attacking Tsukyomi and Amaterasu? I'd rather have MS techniques than anything the _Rin'negan _has to offer-period. Tsuk, Amy, and _Susano'o _at my disposal?? All I would need is unlimited use.


You'd rather have those abilities than:

Control over Life and Death
Gravity Manipulation
Unlimited Summoning
Walking Arsenal (Demon Realm's abilities)
Soul Sucking
Gedo Mazo
High level Taijutsu 
Extreme Durability


----------



## Skeith (Mar 24, 2010)

HawkMan said:


> For real? Attacking Tsukyomi and Amaterasu? I'd rather have MS techniques than anything the _Rin'negan _has to offer-period. Tsuk, Amy, and _Susano'o _at my disposal?? *All I would need is unlimited use.*


*
*


But you won't.


----------



## The 6 Paths of Pain (Mar 24, 2010)

Just Gravity Manipulation beats what MS has to offer. Then you can top that with the ability to control life and death and it's fail how you people don't see that Sharingan is a lesser version of Rinnegan. Sharingan + Senju = Rinnegan (Rikoudo Sage). Pain probably has all the abilities MS had, but he didn't use them just like he didn't use his 5 elements.


----------



## beij (Mar 24, 2010)

The 6 Paths of Pain said:


> Just Gravity Manipulation beats what MS has to offer. Then you can top that with the ability to control life and death and it's fail how you people don't see that Sharingan is a lesser version of Rinnegan. Sharingan + Senju = Rinnegan (Rikoudo Sage). Pain probably has all the abilities MS had, but he didn't use them just like he didn't use his 5 elements.



lol at pain using MS abilities. lol at Rikudo using MS abilities

shinra tensei in great, as is chibuku tensei, but it does not offer Rikudo any protection against Madara's INSTANTANEOUS warping technique. Rikudo will be warped before he can do anything, and even if he uses shinra tensei, that will be warped too by Madara. Even Kamui and its new feats is too fast and lethel for Nagato or Rikudo (it warped 2 arrows of Susano'o, easily)

the actual bodies of Nagato or Rikudo have no defense to sharingan bloodline genjutsu, so if they even make eye contact once, they are caught in genjutsu, and have no rinnegan granted way of escaping. Tsukiyomi (especially from Itachi) is the end of them (not the dead bodies that are the paths of pain, but the actuall liveing bodies that are Nagato or Rikudo). also there is Shishui's dojutsu that controls minds, as well as Izanagi if need be

bottom line: before Rikudo can even use Chibuku tensei or any gravitational attack (which madara could warp out of anyways), a serious and bloodlusted Madara would INSTANTANEOUSLY warp Rikudo, or just his severed head if he choose to, to the 'Kamui' demention

Madara>Rikudo

it can also be argued that Kamui (with current manga feats)=Rikudo's severed head

also both Itachi and Sasuke could defeat the 6 pahts of pain (and the actuall body of Nagato with ease) with basic noledge of his abilites, such as noing that one path absorbs chakra and killing that one first and quikly (if this were a battledome thread i would elaborate)

also Danzo could potentially be the death of anyone (who soes not have a plot shield of course) with his ahraingarm and multiple izanagi spam, as well as Shishui's mind control dojutsu. also his Fuutons are legendary

sharingan>rinnegan


----------



## Griever (Mar 24, 2010)

^ *sigh* seriously man, you really gotta lay off the Madara > Rikudou it really does make you look like a clown... We know nothing of Rikudou's abilitys nor do we have all the info on the powers of the Rinnegan. 

What we do know is that the Uchiha only possess a portion of the Rikudou's power, so if anything Rikudou >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Senju and Uchiha.

The Rinnegan is the *whole* The Sharingan is a part seperated form the whole being the Rinnegan, what does this tell us?.

Rinnegan >>>>>>>>>> Sharingan

Arguing against this is futile.


----------



## the box (Mar 24, 2010)

beij said:


> lol at pain using MS abilities. lol at Rikudo using MS abilities
> 
> shinra tensei in great, as is chibuku tensei, but it does not offer Rikudo any protection against Madara's INSTANTANEOUS warping technique. Rikudo will be warped before he can do anything, and even if he uses shinra tensei, that will be warped too by Madara. Even Kamui and its new feats is too fast and lethel for Nagato or Rikudo (it warped 2 arrows of Susano'o, easily)
> 
> ...



what is this shit?


----------



## Selva (Mar 24, 2010)

the box said:


> what is this shit?


This 

*beij*, for God sake STOP making yourself look like an idiot! I've never said this to anyone before AT ALL but man you're getting on my nerves with all of this shit you spew all over this thread! STOP writing SHITTY arguments


----------



## Wez ★ (Mar 24, 2010)

*beij*, dude, go in the "hilarious comments" thread.
You're like, mentioned _several_ times bro.


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 24, 2010)

If Madara has the Jyubi he *will* be greater than Rikodou. An immortal, omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent being in an eternal Genjutsu. This backpedaling on Rikodou is retarded. The Sharingan is an evolved Rinnegan. Nothing more and nothing less.

Nagato may be stronger than people vastly weakened Mangyekou users or inexperienced, rash children, but that doesn't speak to his eyes' dominancy at all. If Itachi had the final evolution of the Sharingan or if Madara were restored to full power or even current Sasuke - Nagato is obsolete. He will inevitably be surpassed by a 16 year old Sasuke.


----------



## Skeith (Mar 24, 2010)

Soloman said:


> If Madara has the Jyubi he *will* be greater than Rikodou. An immortal, omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent being in an eternal Genjutsu. This backpedaling on Rikodou is retarded. The Sharingan is an evolved Rinnegan. Nothing more and nothing less.
> 
> Nagato may be stronger than people vastly weakened Mangyekou users or inexperienced, rash children, but that doesn't speak to his eyes' dominancy at all. If Itachi had the final evolution of the Sharingan or if Madara were restored to full power or even current Sasuke - Nagato is obsolete. He will inevitably be surpassed by a 16 year old Sasuke.



We are talking about the eyes themselves what powers and ability they give, Not the character themselves. 

Pass by Sasuke, big woop. This whole manga is the new passing the old. However, the new can never surpass the old if the old is never there.

There would be no Sharingan without the Rinnegan, there would be no Mangyekou without the Rinnegan, there would be no ninja world without the Rinnegan.


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 24, 2010)

There would be no bronze without copper. That doesn't mean copper is more valuable than bronze, now does it? I have compared the raw abilities and it's pretty obvious that the Sharingan, overall, has more impressive abilities.

*Sharingan Abilities*

Heightened Genjutsu
Movement Prediction
Pentrating Insight
Eidetic Memory
Tsukuyomi
Amaterasu
Kamui
Susano'o
Izanagi
Teleportation
Intangibility
Mind Control
Control of the Kyubi

*Rinnegan Abilities*

Unlock Elements
Limited Insight
Force Control
Chakra Absorption
Body Morphing
Soul Stripping
Resurrection 
Gedo Mazo
Black Rods

*Conclusion*

If chakra levels are constant: the Sharingan user rapes.


----------



## Wez ★ (Mar 24, 2010)

Soloman said:


> There would be no bronze without copper. That doesn't mean copper is more valuable than bronze, now does it? I have compared the raw abilities and it's pretty obvious that the Sharingan, overall, has more impressive abilities.
> 
> *Sharingan Abilities*
> 
> ...



When has Sasuke shown Mind Control or Teleporation. He hasn't. Because they're in _other_ Sharingan users, so someone having Sharingan does not necessarily grant them all of these abilities.


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 24, 2010)

Sasuke is sixteen years old though and has had the Mangyekou for a week. Do you believe Nagato could use everything when he first awoke his eyes? I'm not discounting the notion that not all of that can be achieved by one individual, but I would guess that the vast majority could be.

Immortality alone is cause for such a belief, no?


----------



## Skeith (Mar 24, 2010)

Soloman said:


> There would be no bronze without copper. That doesn't mean copper is more valuable than bronze, now does it? I have compared the raw abilities and it's pretty obvious that the Sharingan, overall, has more impressive abilities.
> 
> *Sharingan Abilities*
> 
> ...



Fixed

It not how much Justu that counts, it what it can do and how you use them that counts.


----------



## Griever (Mar 25, 2010)

Soloman said:


> There would be no bronze without copper. That doesn't mean copper is more valuable than bronze, now does it? I have compared the raw abilities and it's pretty obvious that the Sharingan, overall, has more impressive abilities.
> 
> *Sharingan Abilities*
> 
> ...



didn't i read this already a few pages ago?.

How people can say Sharingan rapes is beyond me  the achievements of the two Rinnegan users in this manga far outshine anything any uchiha has ever done. Nagato damn near whiped out all of Konoha (something madara failed to do not once but twice) Rikudou saved the world from the 10 tails created ninjutsu and chakra use, created the tailed beast (which Madara wants so bad) then sealed the 10 tails body inside the moon.

Creating something as big as the moon would take probably somthing close to a whole country meaning the Chibaku tensei the Rikudou used was big enough to destroy an entire country or something close. And that's after he unsealed the 10 tails and split the chakra into 9 fragments (in other words he created the moon without the help of the 10 tails chakra).

A single man defeated Madara where as no Single man has ever defeated Nagato (It took Jiraiya and all of Konoha shinobi to beat him).

So, do tell how do Uchiha/Sharingan match up?.

EDIT: by the way had Nagato not revived all the Shinobi he killed in Konoha, Konoha would be faceing the last days of it's reign as one of the great nations.

Also, Rinnegan has been shown to see Chakra (or something) Nagato was able to see the entire barrier that surrounded Konoha, and we don't even know if what the realms showed where all  of the rinnegan's abilitys.


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 25, 2010)

Oh, that's a really good idea, Skeith! Let me try (just my opinion)

*Sharingan Abilities with Nagato's Stamina:*

Pentrating Insight *+3* (The Sharingan can see through opaque objects)
Movement Prediction *+5* (If you have equal speed, you crush in Taijutsu)
Eidetic Memory *+5* (Unhuman mental and muscle memory.)
Heightened Genjutsu *+6* (This has crushed Sanin, Akatsuki, etc. easily.)
Tsukuyomi *+6* (If mastered it can beat any _single_ opponent.)
Amaterasu *+7* (With enough chakra, you're dead.)
Teleportation *+8* (Moving at the speed of light. Minato's power, but better.)
Intangibility *+8* (More invincibility. It's trolled... everyone in the manga.)
Mind Control *+9* (Control an opponent without them even realizing as much.)
Izanagi *+9* (Choosing what is and isn't reality at your whim for 2 minutes.)
Kamui *+12* (With enough chakra, entire buildings could instantly vanish.)
Susano'o *+12* (With Nagato's stamina: hours of invincibility.)
Control of the Kyubi *+12* (The Kyubi could kill Nagato without Uchiha help.)

*Rinnegan Abilities*

Limited Insight *+1* (Can see external chakra. Useful, but not amazingly so.)
Soul Stripping *+5* (More for utility than anything. Not offensively magnificent.)
Unlock Elements *+6* (Ninjutsu specialization parallels to Genjutsu specialization.)
Chakra Absorption *+7* (Pretty nice, but not even with intangibility or Susano'o.)
Body Morphing *+8* (A very nice power. Comparable to teleporting I suppose.)
Resurrection *+9* (Useful, but it can't be used on yourself like Izanagi.)
Force Control *+12* (Limited flight, pushing, and pulling forces. Very nice.)
Gedo Mazo *+12* (Susano'o or Kyubi could defeat it IMHO, but I'll put it here.)
Black Rods *+12* (The technique cripples his real body, but it truly is amazing.)

*Conclusion*

Sharingan: 102
Rinnegan: 72

Granted, a Sharingan user has yet to be shown to use all abilities.



Griever said:


> A single man defeated Madara where as no Single man has ever defeated Nagato (It took Jiraiya and all of Konoha shinobi to beat him).



_A single man and an army of Bijuu_ and _a single man and the god of death_ pushed back Madara. This logic of yours is ridiculous as Nagato's best power feat is failing to contain part of the Kyubi's strength. I'm quite certain that Nagato would be driven back by Minato like the *weakened* Madara and would be *crushed* by Hashirama and his army of tailed beasts. Itachi didn't give a shit about Pein when he was talking to Sasuke. He was singularly worried about *Madara*. The same can be said for Minato. Read the latest chapter and we'll have even more to talk about.


----------



## Skeith (Mar 25, 2010)

Soloman said:


> Oh, that's a really good idea, Skeith! Let me try (just my opinion)
> 
> *Sharingan Abilities with Nagato's Stamina:*
> 
> ...



I was rating them on a scale of 1-5 but you gave your reason why you rated them as so and said "In my opinion" so I have nothing to really argue about.

I'm willing to end things here if you want to.


----------



## Griever (Mar 25, 2010)

Soloman said:


> _A single man and an army of Bijuu_ and _a single man and the god of death_ pushed back Madara. This logic of yours is ridiculous as Nagato's best power feat is failing to contain part of the Kyubi's strength. I'm quite certain that Nagato would be driven back by Minato like the *weakened* Madara and would be *crushed* by Hashirama and his army of tailed beasts. Itachi didn't give a shit about Pein when he was talking to Sasuke. He was singularly worried about *Madara*. The same can be said for Minato. Read the latest chapter and we'll have even more to talk about.



And do you have any proof that Shodai had an army of tailed beasts when he fought Madara, as far as i remember the only tailed beast said to be there was Kyuubi which was being controled by madara


----------



## Skeith (Mar 25, 2010)

Griever said:


> And do you have any proof that Shodai had an army of tailed beasts when he fought Madara, as far as i remember the only tailed beast said to be there was Kyuubi which was being controled by madara



Not only that, the flashback only had Madara, Shodai, and the Kyuubi in it.


----------



## Lord of Mikawa (Mar 25, 2010)

I love this thread.


----------



## HawkMan (Mar 25, 2010)

Man-Soloman soloed you guys.


----------



## Wez ★ (Mar 25, 2010)

HawkMan said:


> Man-Soloman soloed you guys.



Did he? He thinks Madara was fighting all of the tailed beasts at once?

Dude, don't tell us to go read the manga when you clearly haven't read it properly


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 25, 2010)

I see Solomon and Beiji continue to be morons and deny canon for the Sharingan wank.


----------



## Griever (Mar 25, 2010)

HawkMan said:


> Man-Soloman soloed you guys.



Only in Uchiha-fan-Dream-land


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 25, 2010)

HawkMan said:


> Man-Soloman soloed you guys.



They won't be able to admit that the Sharingan isn't inferior to the Rinnegan until Kishi shoves it down their throats. I've shown that abilities of the Sharingan are at least on a similar level if not straight-up better, and the best argument they have now is _Hashirama_. Considering Nagato probably couldn't defeat the full power of the _Kyubi_ let alone with the assistance of someone that the _Tsuchikage thought could solo the current Narutoverse_ there arguments are becoming more and more hostile.


----------



## Jυstin (Mar 25, 2010)

It's because all people have to go by are the best users of each Dojutsu.

Nagato didn't do the Rinnegan much justice at all, while Itachi made the Sharingan look like a tool from God.

Really they're not even comparing the Dojutsu. They're comparing the users.


----------



## Griever (Mar 25, 2010)

Soloman said:


> They won't be able to admit that the Sharingan isn't inferior to the Rinnegan until Kishi shoves it down their throats. I've shown that abilities of the Sharingan are at least on a similar level if not straight-up better, and the best argument they have now is _Hashirama_. Considering Nagato probably couldn't defeat the full power of the _Kyubi_ let alone with the assistance of someone that the _Tsuchikage thought could solo the current Narutoverse_ there arguments are becoming more and more hostile.



You haven't shown us anyting that suggests the sharingan abilities are on the same level as Rinnegan , all you showed us was that there is more known jutsu that the Sharingan grants the user (and some you just made up and or speculated).

Actually that's not even true, The rinnegan grants the user the ability to use all elements (giveing them all element affinitys meaning thay can use Jutsu on the same level as Kirin and FRS from every element) and according to Ibiki (i believe it was) the Rinnegan also gives the user the ability to learn all Yin-yang jutsu (Medical ninjutsu, Genjutsu, clan jutsu) 

So really sharingan has nothing over Rinnegan, not even Genjutsu 

EDIT: and you still haven't answered my question, do have proof that Madara fought an army of tailed beasts?.


----------



## Deshwitat (Mar 25, 2010)

Soloman said:


> You don't think a 16 year old Itachi or Sasuke could defeat a 16 year old Nagato? _Really?_ Because that _is_ a battledome thread and almost everyone believes the contrary. Like I've been saying, Nagato's doujutsu is hot shit _when compared to *cripples* and children._



Nagato himself is a cripple with a dozen of one-meter long, chakra draining poles stuck in his back . I fail to see the point here .

 And as I've said before, I believe that Mangekyou is stronger (by a great margin) at the time of activation, but the Rinnegan is when _completely mastered_ way more powerful.

EDIT; Wait what, what Bijuu army are you guys talking about?


----------



## Khazzar (Mar 25, 2010)

Soloman said:


> They won't be able to admit that the Sharingan isn't inferior to the Rinnegan until Kishi shoves it down their throats. I've shown that abilities of the Sharingan are at least on a similar level if not straight-up better, and the best argument they have now is _Hashirama_. Considering Nagato probably couldn't defeat the full power of the _Kyubi_ let alone with the assistance of someone that the _Tsuchikage thought could solo the current Narutoverse_ there arguments are becoming more and more hostile.



Sharingan isnt inferior to Rin'negan simply due to the fact that God of all Ninjas had Rin'negan and because of HIM,Sharingan came to existence. Try to apply logic. There was an entire clan of Sharingan users with some members being able to grow in power. Imagine what would an entire clan of Rin'negan users do..

Uchiha fans tend to argue that Sharingan is > Rin'negan due to Madara's God-Like ability and "Immortal" reputation. But i assure you,once Madara's fully revealed,he wont seem so special to any of you. 

Rikoudo Sennin had Rin'negan,i repeat - Rin'negan eyes,and he was God of this world. He tamed the Juubi,created thousands of jutsu,created the Moon,bla,bla,bla. Sharingan will never be able to perform feats of such magnitude and simply because of that - Rin'negan will always be > Sharingan.


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 25, 2010)

Jυstin said:


> It's because all people have to go by are the best users of each Dojutsu.
> 
> Nagato didn't do the Rinnegan much justice at all, while Itachi made the Sharingan look like a tool from God.
> 
> Really they're not even comparing the Dojutsu. They're comparing the users.



True, but Itachi was thought to be _severely injured_ before his fight and was very young compared to Nagato. Just because Nagato's talent or intelligence isn't comparable doesn't disregard his usage of the Rinnegan completely.



> Nagato himself is a cripple with a dozen of one-meter long, chakra draining poles stuck in his back . I fail to see the point here



He used a squad of super-powered zombie bodies. We saw Nagato when he was about Itachi's age use the Rinnegan. He would probably lose to Itachi at that point in my humble opinion and that's keeping in mind that Itachi was thought to be severely injured in the fight we saw - he was nowhere near his peak.


----------



## Scizor (Mar 25, 2010)

Soloman>this thread>me

Not based on logic, though.


----------



## Griever (Mar 25, 2010)

Khazzar said:


> Sharingan isnt inferior to Rin'negan simply due to the fact that God of all Ninjas had Rin'negan and because of HIM,Sharingan came to existence. Try to apply logic. There was an entire clan of Sharingan users with some members being able to grow in power. Imagine what would an entire clan of Rin'negan users do..
> 
> Uchiha fans tend to argue that Sharingan is > Rin'negan due to Madara's God-Like ability and "Immortal" reputation. But i assure you,once Madara's fully revealed,he wont seem so special to any of you.
> 
> Rikoudo Sennin had Rin'negan,i repeat - Rin'negan eyes,and he was God of this world. He tamed the Juubi,created thousands of jutsu,created the Moon,bla,bla,bla. Sharingan will never be able to perform feats of such magnitude and simply because of that - Rin'negan will always be > Sharingan.



An entire clan of Rinnegan users :amazed.

Imagining that i fully understand why Kishi didn't make a Rinnegan clan  An army of Chibaku tensei's :amazed It makes one quiver.

Thay would live on mount olympus


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 25, 2010)

> And as I've said before, I believe that Mangekyou is stronger (by a great margin) at the time of activation, but the Rinnegan is when completely mastered way more powerful.



Just think about _Kage Bunshin + Izanagi_. Invincible clones that doesn't hurt the original user in the least. Both doujutsus are broken. As I've said though, the Sharingan's higher incarnations bend the fabric of time and space where as the Rinnegan is a master of matter.


----------



## E (Mar 25, 2010)

ushiha fans are the NF equivalent of juggalos


----------



## Griever (Mar 25, 2010)

Soloman said:


> Just think about _Kage Bunshin + Izanagi_. Invincible clones that doesn't hurt the original user in the least. Both doujutsus are broken. As I've said though, the Sharingan's higher incarnations bend the fabric of time and space where as the Rinnegan is a master of matter.



Not true.



Fukasaku: "you experience everything your clones experiance. So if one of them turnes into a frog that'd be the end of it".

apparently if your clone goes blind you go blind, that's the way for Kishi too keep characters form becoming far to hax.

It does make sense when you think about it, Why didn't Sarutobi have the death god take the soul of the clone instead of his actual soul?, Why didn't Naruto ever use the 50% FRS with a clone?. It's probably also the reason thay disappear before thay die


----------



## Dim Mak (Mar 25, 2010)

Why would a person like Madara himself want the Rinnegan instead of his EMS.
It's been written in the Manga itself that the Rinnegan is the most superior eye there is. Why would you guys still bother to convince that the Sharingan is better?


----------



## Deshwitat (Mar 25, 2010)

Soloman said:


> He used a squad of super-powered zombie bodies. We saw Nagato when he was about Itachi's age use the Rinnegan. He would probably lose to Itachi at that point in my humble opinion and that's keeping in mind that Itachi was thought to be severely injured in the fight we saw - he was nowhere near his peak.



They only have 1/6 of his chakra each though. With only one body, their respective power is taken to a whole other level. Just have a look at how the power of Shinra Tensei seems to scale with how few bodies there are left. Add the power of the Outer Path and whatever Ninjutsu/Genjutsu the user might have mastered and you've got the non-crippeled Nagato.



Soloman said:


> Just think about _Kage Bunshin + Izanagi_. Invincible clones that doesn't hurt the original user in the least. Both doujutsus are broken. As I've said though, the Sharingan's higher incarnations bend the fabric of time and space where as the Rinnegan is a master of matter.



I don't think a Kage Bunshin can use Izanagi. 

Either way, I've always thought about the power of the Rinnegan as the power over life, death and matter (Gravity, all elements, body manipulation), while the power of the Mangekyou Sharingan is the power over space, time and the human brain. And my opinion is that the Rinnegan is more powerful, atleast potentially. 

(The respective feats of what one Mangekyou Sharingan user and one Rinnegan user backs this up. Combining the feats of *all* Mangekyou Sharingan users is potentially as great as the Rinnegan though, but I don't consider that to be quite fair.)


----------



## the box (Mar 25, 2010)

Soloman said:


> Oh, that's a really good idea, Skeith! Let me try (just my opinion)
> 
> *Sharingan Abilities with Nagato's Stamina:*
> 
> ...




WHAT IS THIS SHIT!!!?

shodia beat his ass. manga says rennigan is strongest get off madaras cock


----------



## Chappz316 (Mar 25, 2010)

Imo EMS wins 1vs1, but for attacking a village say, Rinnegan wins, basically its better for taking on multiple opponents than sharingan is.

Each have their own strengths, pitted against each other i would also think EMS would come out on top simply because it was designed for fighting 1 person.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 25, 2010)

Chappz316 said:


> Imo EMS wins 1vs1, but for attacking a village say, Rinnegan wins, basically its better for taking on multiple opponents than sharingan is.
> 
> Each have their own strengths, pitted against each other i would also think EMS would come out on top simply because it was designed for fighting 1 person.


...how does an EMS win against the Rinnegan? All of the Sharingan's abilities are cancelled out by the Rinnegan's abilities.


----------



## Black☆Star (Mar 25, 2010)

Power over life and death 
nuff said.


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 25, 2010)

The Kyubi was stronger than Nagato, IMHO.


----------



## Yagura (Mar 25, 2010)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> ...how does an EMS win against the Rinnegan? All of the Sharingan's abilities are cancelled out by the Rinnegan's abilities.



Pray tell, how so?


----------



## Griever (Mar 25, 2010)

Soloman said:


> The Kyubi was stronger than Nagato, IMHO.



Who said?.

As i recall  Nagato admited that the Kyuubi was strong but he never said it was stronger than he was, he said he'd have to make a bigger chibaku tensei.... where did you come up with the idea that, that was nagato saying the Kyuubi was stronger .


----------



## Chappz316 (Mar 25, 2010)

> ...how does an EMS win against the Rinnegan? All of the Sharingan's abilities are cancelled out by the Rinnegan's abilities.



Okay picture this. Madara stood 5 feet away from Rikodou sennin, madara walks up to rikodou, at which point rikodou uses shinra tensei.  Madara doesn't even flinch, oh shit he's in his phased out mode, walks up closer, walks up closer.... and pokes him in the eyes.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 25, 2010)

Soloman said:


> The Kyubi was stronger than Nagato, IMHO.


Not bloody likely. He was prepared, even in his weaker state, to create a larger, stronger Chibaku Tensei to keep the Kyubi locked up.


----------



## Black☆Star (Mar 25, 2010)

Chappz316 said:


> Okay picture this. Madara stood 5 feet away from Rikodou sennin, madara walks up to rikodou, at which point rikodou uses shinra tensei.  Madara doesn't even flind, oh shit he's in his phased out mode, walks up closer, walks up closer.... and pokes him in the eyes.



Another one who believes Madara>Rikudou


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 25, 2010)

Griever said:


> As i recall  Nagato admited that the Kyuubi was strong but he never said it was stronger than he was, he said he'd have to make a bigger chibaku tensei.... where did you come up with the idea that, that was nagato saying the Kyuubi was stronger .



IMHO means _in my humble opinion._ He was coughing up blood and struggling with a weakened Kyubi so I do not feel he would defeat the Nine Tails by himself, and especially not with a prime Madara assisting him or even a severely injured Itachi. It's just too much.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 25, 2010)

Chappz316 said:


> Okay picture this. Madara stood 5 feet away from Rikodou sennin, madara walks up to rikodou, at which point rikodou uses shinra tensei.  Madara doesn't even flind, oh shit he's in his phased out mode, walks up closer, walks up closer.... and pokes him in the eyes.


..that is just so incredibly stupid. And the phasing _may be due to a different power, not the Sharingan_.

And Madara'd face an army of summons and different creatures. Its just stupid that Madara can beat the Rikuduo, much less Pain. Shows the extent of Uchiha fanboyism, and gives the non-Fanboys on this board who actually like the Uchiha and Sasuke _sanely_ a bad name.


----------



## Wez ★ (Mar 25, 2010)

Chappz316 said:


> Okay picture this. Madara stood 5 feet away from Rikodou sennin, madara walks up to rikodou, at which point rikodou uses shinra tensei.  Madara doesn't even flinch, oh shit he's in his phased out mode, walks up closer, walks up closer.... and pokes him in the eyes.


Madara is not the fucking Sharingan. Not all Sharingan users can do this?


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 25, 2010)

Soloman said:


> IMHO means _in my humble opinion._ He was coughing up blood and struggling with a weakened Kyubi so I do not feel he would defeat the Nine Tails by himself, and especially not with a prime Madara next to him.


And that's after what? Using the Chou Shinra Tensei to crush the village and use up his life? Nagato wasn't at 100% either, Solomon. Your opinion is wrong.


----------



## Chappz316 (Mar 25, 2010)

> Madara is not the fucking Sharingan. Not all Sharingan users can do this?



No, but the only user of the EMS we have seen has this tech.



> Shows the extent of Uchiha fanboyism, and gives the non-Fanboys on this board who actually like the Uchiha and Sasuke sanely a bad name.



i'm a fanboy cause my avatar is sasuke and i talked about the haxxedness of a jutsu? i believe what i've seen printed in the pages of the manga and draw conclusions that seem logical to me.


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 25, 2010)

I'm not saying he was, but if KN8 was busting all over his strongest technique, even if he could more power in it, I'm guessing that KN9 would be an even match at best. Throwing in an additional powerhouse like an _Eternal Mangyekou Madara_ makes it too much. As I said, this is just my opinion.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 25, 2010)

Soloman said:


> I'm not saying he was, but if KN8 was busting all over his strongest technique, even if he could more power in it, I'm guessing that KN9 would be an even match at best. Throwing in an additional powerhouse like an _Eternal Mangyekou Madara_ makes it too much. As I said, this is just my opinion.


...and again, Nagato was already weakened from his Chou Shinra Tensei, had exerted himself even more fighting Naruto, lost all his bodies by that point...

You're seriously telling me a fresh Nagato wouldn't have been able to imprison Kyubi at nine tails? Not only that, EMS Madara was beaten by Hashirama, he's not unbeatable.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 25, 2010)

Chappz316 said:


> NI'm a fanboy cause my avatar is sasuke and i talked about the haxxedness of a jutsu? i believe what i've seen printed in the pages of the manga and draw conclusions that seem logical to me.


Yeah, because you completely disregarded the other Rinnegan jutsus and automatically assumed that the phasing technique Madara uses is part of EMS-which we have no proof yet.


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 25, 2010)

I never said Madara was unbeatable, and yes, I am of the opinion that if _Chibaku Tensei_ worked on the Kyubi then Nagato wouldn't be in any sort of fighting condition afterward to fight an _Eternal Mangyekou_ user.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 25, 2010)

Soloman said:


> I never said Madara was unbeatable, and yes, I am of the opinion that if _Chibaku Tensei_ worked on the Kyubi then Nagato wouldn't be in any sort of fighting condition afterward to fight an _Eternal Mangyekou_ user.


He would still have more than enough chakra for it. And why? EMS isn't that much of a hack ability, it just seems to stop the MS's blindness. You don't have to keep italicizing it.

And if the EMS was so powerful, how come Madara would even NEED the Kyubi to take on Konoha?


----------



## Griever (Mar 25, 2010)

Soloman said:


> IMHO means _in my humble opinion._ He was coughing up blood and struggling with a weakened Kyubi so I do not feel he would defeat the Nine Tails by himself, and especially not with a prime Madara assisting him or even a severely injured Itachi. It's just too much.



The fact that he could even still use somehting like a bigger Chibaku tensei ontop of the one he already used, is fucking incredible, after all the fights he had been in and all the chakra he had used up to that point and he could still go on with monstrous jutsu says a hell of alot about him and what he and Rinnegan are capable of.



Soloman said:


> I'm not saying he was, but if KN8 was busting all over his strongest technique, even if he could more power in it, I'm guessing that KN9 would be an even match at best. Throwing in an additional powerhouse like an _Eternal Mangyekou Madara_ makes it too much. As I said, this is just my opinion.



We can't say this for sure, we don't know how much stronger Nagato could have made Chibaku tensei.


----------



## Chappz316 (Mar 25, 2010)

So tell me which techniques are EMS techniques, or are we comparing the rinnegan with something we have no knowledge of yet? Cause Susanoo amaterasu and tsukuyomi and hell even kyuubi control are all MS techs, so currently EMS has nothing.

But someone possessing EMS has this phasing tech which has never been seen before.

And which tech is actually going to manipulate time-space bringing madara to a point where he's hit-able?


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 25, 2010)

I have compared the abilities, and found that I preferred the Sharingan abilities over the Rinnegan. The Sharingan is very hacked. If Kakashi, for instance, met Nagato in person, then Nagato would die. Considering that we haven't actually seen the peak of the Sharingan, I believe that speaks a lot towards it's power at this point in the manga.


----------



## Chappz316 (Mar 25, 2010)

> And if the EMS was so powerful, how come Madara would even NEED the Kyubi to take on Konoha?



oh. OH. I like this! I REALLY LIKE THIS.

Did you read my first post in this thread where i said i dont think EMS would be suitable for multiple opponents and that it is only haxxed in 1vs1 fights?


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 25, 2010)

Chappz316 said:


> So tell me which techniques are EMS techniques, or are we comparing the rinnegan with something we have no knowledge of yet? Cause Susanoo amaterasu and tsukuyomi and hell even kyuubi control are all MS techs, so currently EMS has nothing.
> 
> But someone possessing EMS has this phasing tech which has never been seen before.
> 
> And which tech is actually going to manipulate time-space bringing madara to a point where he's hit-able?


We are comparing the Rinnegan to something we have no knowledge of yet. The EMS's powers haven't been defined, but given how the manga, databooks, and fanbook have already said that the Rinnegan is the superior dojutsu...it won't make much difference.


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 25, 2010)

I don't see how people can compare the Konoha that Pein took on to the Konoha that Madara took on. Madara's power was so great that the Tsuchikage said he could _walk all over the entire modern world_. Obviously, ancient Konoha's power was far more than what it is today. Most likely due to Hashirama.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 25, 2010)

Soloman said:


> I have compared the abilities, and found that I preferred the Sharingan abilities over the Rinnegan. The Sharingan is very hacked. If Kakashi, for instance, met Nagato in person, then Nagato would die. Considering that we haven't actually seen the peak of the Sharingan, I believe that speaks a lot towards it's power at this point in the manga.


And you ignore a lot of powers that the Rinnegan has, make up powers for the Sharingan, and continue to be a fanboy?

The Sharingan's powers have peaked. The Rinnegan's are endless. Kakashi and Nagato meet? Nagato kills Kakashi with ease.


----------



## Wez ★ (Mar 25, 2010)

Dude, I'm still waiting for the evidence that Madara was fighting the First and _all_ of the tailed beasts.
Oh, and I'm also waiting for Amaterasu to _actually_ kill someone... or even damage them.


----------



## Griever (Mar 25, 2010)

Soloman said:


> I have compared the abilities, and found that I preferred the Sharingan abilities over the Rinnegan. The Sharingan is very hacked. If Kakashi, for instance, met Nagato in person, then Nagato would die. Considering that we haven't actually seen the peak of the Sharingan, I believe that speaks a lot towards it's power at this point in the manga.



you mean  Nagato It's a possibility, though If kakashi got the Receiver put in him like Naruto did, there'd be no way in hell Kakashi's chakra could overpower Nagato's, so he'd be nothing more than a puppet.

And Nagato already know's of Kakashi's sharingan, because Demon realm observed Kamui first hand.



Wezzy said:


> *Dude, I'm still waiting for the evidence that Madara was fighting the First and all of the tailed beasts.*
> Oh, and I'm also waiting for Amaterasu to _actually_ kill someone... or even damage them.



I am too actually, though it appears he's not gonna answer that one, simply because there is no evidence


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 25, 2010)

Wezzy, I suppose Amaterasu has killed as many people as Chibaku Tensei then. 



Griever said:


> you mean  Nagato It's a possibility, though If kakashi got the Receiver put in him like Naruto did, there'd be no way in hell Kakashi's chakra could overpower Nagato's, so he'd be nothing more than a puppet.



I meant younger Nagato. He would eat a Kamui and disappear.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 25, 2010)

Soloman said:


> I don't see how people can compare the Konoha that Pein took on to the Konoha that Madara took on. Madara's power was so great that the Tsuchikage said he could _walk all over the entire modern world_. Obviously, ancient Konoha's power was far more than what it is today. Most likely due to Hashirama.


Yeah, he was so great since he _could control the Kyubi_ and use it in battles. Thats why Onoki held him up so highly. Old Konoha's power is _weaker_ than current Konoha due to the fact it had just been founded, it was smaller, and didn't have as much influence as Modern Konoha.

And again, if Konoha got weaker, why did Madara _again_ need the Kyubi to attack it 17 years previously?


----------



## Chappz316 (Mar 25, 2010)

> The Sharingan's powers have peaked. The Rinnegan's are endless. Kakashi and Nagato meet? Nagato kills Kakashi with ease.



I don't get how nagato would do this with his head having been sucked into another dimension? If they  were both as people like to say "blood-lusted" Kamui would pop faster than nagato could react.


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 25, 2010)

Incorrect, ma'am. Ancient Konoha possessed all of the tailed beasts and distributed them to balance the power once Madara had been killed. Considering that the strongest warrior of current Konoha was _Tsunade_ when Pein attacked... and she didn't even fight.


----------



## Wez ★ (Mar 25, 2010)

Soloman said:


> Incorrect, ma'am. Ancient Konoha possessed all of the tailed beasts and distributed them to balance the power once Madara had been killed. Considering that the strongest warrior of current Konoha was _Tsunade_ when Pein attacked...


_Please_ find me the page that states this. Go on.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 25, 2010)

Soloman said:


> Incorrect, ma'am. Ancient Konoha possessed all of the tailed beasts and distributed them to balance the power once Madara had been killed.


And you're assuming Hashirama used them against Madara. For all we know, Hashirama kept them deep in the village so no one could use them. 

Dear god, arguing with fanboys is getting more difficult.


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 25, 2010)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And you're assuming Hashirama used them against Madara. For all we know, Hashirama kept them deep in the village so no one could use them. Dear god, arguing with fanboys is getting more difficult.



That's a possibility, but it still means Konoha was much stronger.


----------



## Wez ★ (Mar 25, 2010)

I respect these guys though for actually trying to back up their arguments with evidence and standing thier ground. It's people like *beij* that just state their opinions as facts.


----------



## Chappz316 (Mar 25, 2010)

> Please find me the page that states this. Go on.



You expect all the other ninja villages forming and the power struggle to be settled by hashirama handing out bijuu to occur before the contest for leader of the FIRST hidden village (konoha) between madara and hashirama was fought?


----------



## Griever (Mar 25, 2010)

Soloman said:


> Wezzy, I suppose Amaterasu has killed as many people as Chibaku Tensei then.
> 
> 
> 
> I meant younger Nagato. He would eat a Kamui and disappear.



Oh well then that's just rediculous....  Nagato was strong enough to chase off Salamander Hanzo, he was a kage level shinobi maybe even above that as well as Danzo...


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 25, 2010)

Chappz316 said:


> You expect all the other ninja villages forming and the power struggle to be settled by hashirama handing out bijuu to occur before the contest for leader of the FIRST hidden village (konoha) between madara and hashirama was fought?


For all we know, Konoha already distributed its Bijuu before Madara even attacked.


----------



## Wez ★ (Mar 25, 2010)

Chappz316 said:


> You expect all the other ninja villages forming and the power struggle to be settled by hashirama handing out bijuu to occur before the contest for leader of the FIRST hidden village (konoha) between madara and hashirama was fought?


I thought they didn't fight for Hokage, Hashirama was chosen and Madara was pissed?


----------



## Chappz316 (Mar 25, 2010)

> For all we know, Konoha already distributed its Bijuu before Madara even attacked.



Can you read my post again for me, explain what i was trying to say, and tell me again how your reply make's sense?


----------



## Chappz316 (Mar 25, 2010)

> I thought they didn't fight for Hokage, Hashirama was chosen and Madara was pissed?



Yeah he was pissed and started a fight, i'm sure if he killed hashirama with the clan backing him he would've taken the position of hokage, so i think of it as a fight for hokage


----------



## Griever (Mar 25, 2010)

Chappz316 said:


> I don't get how nagato would do this with his head having been sucked into another dimension? If they  were both as people like to say "blood-lusted" Kamui would pop faster than nagato could react.



Shinra tensei + Body flicker slashes Kakashi's neck and it's over, shinra tensei has proven to have a faster execution than Kamui.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 25, 2010)

Chappz316 said:


> Can you read my post again for me, explain what i was trying to say, and tell me again how your reply make's sense?


Since, after all, Hashirama was already Hokage when Madara fought him. There is no evidence that Konoha still had its Bijuu by then, since Madara implied it was years after Hashirama became Hokage and his return.


----------



## Wez ★ (Mar 25, 2010)

Chappz316 said:


> Yeah he was pissed and started a fight, i'm sure if he killed hashirama with the clan backing him he would've taken the position of hokage, so i think of it as a fight for hokage


No, because the village had been formed, Hokage had been chosen, therefore, he could of already distributed the Bijuu? Before you were saying he wouldn't do it before Hokage was chosen... when it already was?


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 25, 2010)

Griever said:


> Shinra tensei + Body flicker slashes Kakashi's neck and it's over, shinra tensei has proven to have a faster execution than Kamui.



Not necessarily. Kamui misplaced Sasuke's arrows, which were too fast for Kakashi to react to physically. I doubt Nagato's shunshin was faster than Sasuke's arrow as Kakashi is one of the fastest characters already.


----------



## Griever (Mar 25, 2010)

Soloman said:


> Not necessarily. Kamui misplaced Sasuke's arrows, which were too fast for Kakashi to react to physically. I doubt Nagato's shunshin was faster than Sasuke's arrow as Kakashi is one of the fastest characters already.



What the hell?. Shinra tensei activates whenever the user wants it too, That's why Nothing has ever gotten past Shinra tensei (other tha in the interval).


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 25, 2010)

Oh, you're suggesting that _Shinra Tensei_ counters _Kamui_? I don't think so, personally, but who knows. Kakashi does figure out the interval quickly though, so it may not play a large factor anyways.


----------



## Chappz316 (Mar 25, 2010)

> What the hell?. Shinra tensei activates whenever the user wants it too, That's why Nothing has ever gotten past Shinra tensei (other than the interval).



Yeah nothing's ever gotten past shinra tensei because it activates whenever the user wants it to. Nothing has ever been instant. Kamui is virtually instant if kakashi wants it to be, although since shinra is the same i call it a draw, the second they lay eyes upon each other nagato dissappears into another dimension and kakashi gets splattered into a wall.

EDIT: supersaiyaman my post didn't appear for some reason but i was re-reading madara's history of konoha and madara left after the village was formed, so i guess i could be wrong, so i apologise for what may have seemed rude


----------



## Wez ★ (Mar 25, 2010)

... We just gonna ignore the whole "Madara was fighting all the tailed beasts" shit then? We're waiting.


----------



## Chappz316 (Mar 25, 2010)

> ... We just gonna ignore the whole "Madara was fighting all the tailed beasts" shit then? We're waiting.



Yeah were gonna ignore it due to lack of proof hashirama still had the tailed beasts at that time


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 25, 2010)

Konoha possessed the majority of the tailed beasts at one time. Whether you believe Hashirama used them to take on Madara and the Kyubi is up to you, but it's still a feat that Nagato would have a very difficult time imitating as the Kyubi proved very challenging to him.


----------



## Black☆Star (Mar 25, 2010)

Wezzy said:


> ... We just gonna ignore the whole "Madara was fighting all the tailed beasts" shit then? We're waiting.



Who said that he fought all the beasts?


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 25, 2010)

akkadiaN said:


> Who said that he fought all the beasts?


Solomon, of course.


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 25, 2010)

Solomon was a wise king. I'm Soloman.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 25, 2010)

Soloman said:


> Konoha possessed the majority of the tailed beasts at one time. Whether you believe Hashirama used them to take on Madara and the Kyubi is up to you, but it's still a feat that Nagato would have a very difficult time imitating as the Kyubi proved very challenging to him.


Konoha also gave them up while Hashirama was still Hokage. Its also thought that Madara vs Hashirama also ended in both their deaths, with Kyubi being sealed away or driven off.


----------



## Black☆Star (Mar 25, 2010)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Solomon, of course.



He's just mad that Madara and Kyuubi got fodderized by Hashirama and is looking for excuses


----------



## Wez ★ (Mar 25, 2010)

akkadiaN said:


> Who said that he fought all the beasts?


Not me! 
Soloman mentioned it.
But then stopped when realising there is no evidence...


----------



## Griever (Mar 25, 2010)

Soloman said:


> Oh, you're suggesting that _Shinra Tensei_ counters _Kamui_? I don't think so, personally, but who knows. Kakashi does figure out the interval quickly though, so it may not play a large factor anyways.



..... I never said that....

Though it's a possibility, Kamui (like every other jutsu) is made out of Charka, thus Shinra tensei might repel it... though i'm not passing that off as fact.

I was simply commenting on Shinra tensei's execution speed.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 25, 2010)

Soloman said:


> Solomon was a wise king. I'm Soloman.


No, you're not Solomon. Just Solomon In Name Only-SINO.


----------



## Chappz316 (Mar 25, 2010)

Gah, gotta go watch t.v. for an hour so here'smy closing opinion on the thread were posting in, 

1v1 i think an EMS user would beat a rinnegan user, since the EMS user we've seenin combat has the uber-haxx phase ability, but taking on a huge village is definitely a job for chou shinra tensei.

In my opinion that is.


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 25, 2010)

Solom*a*n, ma'am.


----------



## Wez ★ (Mar 25, 2010)

Can't we all just get along!?


----------



## Griever (Mar 25, 2010)

Wezzy said:


> Can't we all just get along!?



No! we all must slash eachother with our words utill hell freezes over


----------



## Wez ★ (Mar 25, 2010)

Griever said:


> No! we all must slash eachother with our words utill hell freezes over


Okaaaaay 
No worries... I'm on team Rinnegan anyway!


----------



## Selva (Mar 25, 2010)

Oh, this thread is still going very strong I see 
YAY more lulz for me


----------



## Skeith (Mar 25, 2010)

Soloman said:


> True, but Itachi was thought to be _severely injured_ before his fight and was very young compared to Nagato. Just because Nagato's talent or intelligence isn't comparable doesn't disregard his usage of the Rinnegan completely.
> 
> 
> He used a squad of super-powered zombie bodies. *We saw Nagato when he was about Itachi's age use the Rinnegan. He would probably lose to Itachi at that point in my humble opinion and that's keeping in mind that Itachi was thought to be severely injured in the fight we saw - he was nowhere near his peak.*



Yeah, after Itachi had 8 years of training before he got his eyes and another 8 years of training with those eyes Vs. Nagato training basic ninja arts for a few years and never had any proper training in using his eyes.


Soloman said:


> The Kyubi was stronger than Nagato, IMHO.



Oh dear God.


*They are stronger with a host then by themselves.
*


----------



## Diskyr (Mar 25, 2010)

Sharingan.


----------



## Isoya Emi (Mar 25, 2010)

I'm guessing it depends on the wielder too. Like there would be a HUGE difference in Sasuke and some really weak genin using Sharingan.
But it seems Rinn. is more powerful but its too early in the storyline to say for sure.


----------



## Scizor (Mar 25, 2010)

Sharingan sharingan rinnegan sharingan.
Sharingan rinnegan, sharingan!

Though rinnegan rinnegan sharingan, sharingan sharingan rinnegan.
Byakugan sharingan rinnegan, rinnegan sharingan, rinnegan!

This thread^


----------



## Wez ★ (Mar 25, 2010)

SuzumeShouken said:


> Sharingan sharingan rinnegan sharingan.
> Sharingan rinnegan, sharingan!
> 
> Though rinnegan rinnegan sharingan, sharingan sharingan rinnegan.
> ...


I know, right? I wasn't expecting that either when I came to a thread which was pretty much set from the start to be a debate over which one is better? Crazy.


----------



## Skeith (Mar 25, 2010)

SuzumeShouken said:


> Sharingan sharingan rinnegan sharingan.
> Sharingan rinnegan, sharingan!
> 
> Though rinnegan rinnegan sharingan, sharingan sharingan rinnegan.
> ...



Mind=Blown.


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 25, 2010)

Skeith said:


> Yeah, after Itachi had 8 years of training before he got his eyes



Itachi was training since birth? 



Skeith said:


> and another 8 years of training with those eyes



Technically, he had five years before he killed everyone else with them.



Skeith said:


> Vs. Nagato training basic ninja arts for a few years and never had any proper training in using his eyes.



He was trained by a legendary Sanin for three years. (Sasuke's growth)


----------



## HawkMan (Mar 26, 2010)

Someone rep the fuck out of Soloman. I blew my load negging today.


----------



## Skeith (Mar 26, 2010)

HawkMan said:


> Someone *neg *the fuck out of Soloman. I blew my load negging today.



Fixed

And done.


----------



## Skeith (Mar 26, 2010)

Soloman said:


> I don't see how people can compare the Konoha that Pein took on to the Konoha that Madara took on. Madara's power was so great that the Tsuchikage said he could _walk all over the entire modern world_. Obviously, ancient Konoha's power was far more than what it is today. Most likely due to Hashirama.



He also thought there was no real Rignnin and that it was just a fairy tail.



Chappz316 said:


> Okay picture this. Madara stood 5 feet away from Rikodou sennin, madara walks up to rikodou, at which point rikodou uses shinra tensei.  Madara doesn't even flinch, oh shit he's in his phased out mode, walks up closer, walks up closer.... and pokes him in the eyes.



1) Rikodou has other moves beside that.

2) do you think he would just stand there and let him get that close.

3) You think he can become intrangable to gravity? HAHAHAHAHAHA

Let say he can: 

Shinra Tensei-Phase out mode-float into the air because he had no gravity to hold him down-suffociate/eyes pop out to to lack of oxygen.


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 26, 2010)

Was a neg really necessary? I think:

_"Uchiha dick riders."

"Fucking Uchiha bitch wankers"_

and so on is sufficient. Why not be mature about the opinion of others?


----------



## Skeith (Mar 26, 2010)

Soloman said:


> Was a neg really necessary? I think:
> 
> _"Uchiha dick riders."
> 
> ...



Cause the last few pages have been very lacking in mature opinions. 

...I'm also tired (but having sleeping problems)and am not in the most sound of mind.


----------



## Scizor (Mar 26, 2010)

Wezzy said:


> I know, right? I wasn't expecting that either when I came to a thread which was pretty much set from the start to be a debate over which one is better? Crazy.



sarcazm iz srs buiznizz bro.


----------



## Makoto Sensei (Mar 26, 2010)

SuzumeShouken said:


> sarcazm iz srs buiznizz bro.



Internet as a whole is, bud


----------



## Spirit (Mar 26, 2010)

"Better" in what term. That needs definition.

Rinnegan is the more powerful one, even I have to admit hands down. It's more broken because it can use ANY jutsu, which for Sharingan user is restricted by your chakra type, so it's the only thing that can rape Sharingan/MS/EMS as used by revealed characters.

But for me, EMS is already more than enough.

1. It looks way cooler that Rinnegan.
2. Given the immortality, you can turn yourself into Kakuzu, and voila you're just as good as having a Rinnegan.


----------



## BehraD (Mar 26, 2010)

i chose Rinnengan 

realy Strong


----------



## OMNOMNOM THE COOKIEZ (Mar 26, 2010)

Nuh. They are just blind-sided by their fangirlism.


----------



## Nandireya (Mar 26, 2010)

I don't recall ever saying that...or even thinking it for that matter...but then I never finished reading the Pain arc either...

I think the Sharingan _LOOKS_ better...but that's probably about it.


----------



## beij (Mar 26, 2010)

there are quit a few techniques from a few sharingan users that are superior to the rinnegan and superior to Nagato and Rikudo. but once again, i will make this a s simple as possible for you:

Rikudo has NO way of defending against Madara's INSTANTANEOUS warping Technique. no defense at all

that is only one of the many sharingan techs that could kill Nagato. and some even take out Rikudo

also it should be noted that Sharingan has unique genjutsu, which rinnegan has no defense for. and although they can both see chakra, the sharingan alows a user to essentially predict the future, which the rinnegan has no such ability. the rinnegan is more 'revered' as an antique, but the sharingan is a modern ninja dojutsu; its like the rinnegan is an ancient clay pot, while the sharingan is a sniper rifle (litterally with Kamui and madara)

i have simpled this down for you, and until you prove capable of effectively persueding this, it is not worth my time 

sharingan>rinnegan


----------



## beij (Mar 26, 2010)

beij said:


> there are quit a few techniques from a few sharingan users that are superior to the rinnegan and superior to Nagato and Rikudo. but once again, i will make this a s simple as possible for you:
> 
> Rikudo has NO way of defending against Madara's INSTANTANEOUS warping Technique. no defense at all
> 
> ...



consider this and my earlier post's. proove that you are worth my time in this regard

be back here later


----------



## Skeith (Mar 26, 2010)

beij said:


> there are quit a few techniques from a few sharingan users that are superior to the rinnegan and superior to Nagato and Rikudo. but once again, i will make this a s simple as possible for you:
> *
> 1) Rikudo has NO way of defending against Madara's INSTANTANEOUS warping Technique. no defense at all*
> 
> ...



1) We don't know for sure if it is an EMS skill. Also, Warping in will require Madara to touch him. Touching him will cause his charka to be drain and null the warping.

2)Name them and I will show you.

3) How many times to I have to say this? I'll put it in big bold letters so that you can see it. Ahem:

*
WE HAVE ONLY SEEN PAIN AFFECTED BY SOUND-BASE GENJUSTU, NOT SIGHT-BASE GENJUSTU!!!!!!!!

WE ALSO BE SHOW THAT EVEN IF ONE BODY IS AFFECTED BY THE SOUND-BASE GENJUSTU, IT DOESN'T AFFECT ALL THE BODIES.*


----------



## ZE (Mar 26, 2010)

beij said:


> there are quit a few techniques from a few sharingan users that are superior to the rinnegan and superior to Nagato and Rikudo. but once again, i will make this a s simple as possible for you:
> 
> Rikudo has NO way of defending against Madara's INSTANTANEOUS warping Technique. no defense at all
> 
> ...



Madara?s spacetime jutsu can?t kill. RS is the guy who invented ninjutsu, and who developed a sealing jutsu in order to beat the juubi, if he didn?t have one he could invent a spacetime ninjutsu to escape from Madara?s box dimension on the spot and return to the real world, after all, the rinnegan allows its user to use any jutsu, spacetime ones are no exception.  

And you are aware that the rinnegan has already shown spiritual attacks that attack the soul instead of the body, aren?t you? Genzou Mazu?s dragons passed through all of the rain nins and killed them without scratching their bodies. Shiki Fujin is another jutsu that could grab Madara even when he?s intangible. If Madara is there, even if he?s intangible, then his soul is also there, which means the rinnegan has already shown jutsus that can kill Madara. 

And there are other jutsus that can beat Madara?s spacetime jutsu like the Frog Song, I guess that means Jiraiya>Sharingan? 

Unless the uchiha made some pact with the devil that changed their eyes and made them stronger, the powers the sharingan possess are powers that were latent in the rinnegan. Whether a rinnegan user could use them or not is yet to be seen, but if the sharingan can summon black flames from hell, then the rinnegan has the potential to do the same. In fact, Emna, who is supposedly the king of hell is part of the rinnegan power, and every time he appeared, he had black flames around his body. 

In short:
-Madara?s spacetime jutsu can?t kill RS.
-RS could create any jutsu he desired, that includes spacetime ninjutsus to escape Madara?s box dimension.
-RS can kill Madara with Genzou Mazu, or Human Realm?s powers because it attacks directly the soul, Madara has a soul.


----------



## Wez ★ (Mar 26, 2010)

SuzumeShouken said:


> sarcazm iz srs buiznizz bro.


I knowz, I can always fall back on the lowest form of wit.


----------



## HawkMan (Mar 26, 2010)

ZE said:


> Madara’s spacetime jutsu can’t kill. RS is the guy who invented ninjutsu, and who developed a sealing jutsu in order to beat the juubi, if he didn’t have one he could invent a spacetime ninjutsu to escape from Madara’s box dimension on the spot and return to the real world, after all, the rinnegan allows its user to use any jutsu, spacetime ones are no exception.
> 
> And you are aware that the rinnegan has already shown spiritual attacks that attack the soul instead of the body, aren’t you? Genzou Mazu’s dragons passed through all of the rain nins and killed them without scratching their bodies. Shiki Fujin is another jutsu that could grab Madara even when he’s intangible. If Madara is there, even if he’s intangible, then his soul is also there, which means the rinnegan has already shown jutsus that can kill Madara.
> 
> ...


If I understand correctly; the _Rin'negan _allows you to master any technique-with training. The _sharingan _allows you to instantaneous learn any technique within your skill-set-though not immediately mastered. 

So-basically-RS couldn't pull an ST jutsu out of his ass. Furthermore-little offense is needed with Madara's jutsu. Say-for example-he phases his hands into RS's chest and rips his heart out. Selective tangibility can go both ways-it takes little imagination to think he could do this to virtually anyone without a S-T jutsu to counter.


----------



## Skeith (Mar 26, 2010)

HawkMan said:


> If I understand correctly; the _Rin'negan _allows you to master any technique-with training. The _sharingan _allows you to instantaneous learn any technique within your skill-set-though not immediately mastered.
> 
> So-basically-RS couldn't pull an ST jutsu out of his ass. Furthermore-little offense is needed with Madara's jutsu. Say-for example-he phases his hands into RS's chest and rips his heart out.



That would requre his hand to be physical. Touching him would drain your charka and/or have your soul suck out.

And again, you think he would just stand still?


----------



## HawkMan (Mar 26, 2010)

Skeith said:


> That would requre his hand to be physical. Touching him would drain your charka and/or have your soul suck out.
> 
> And again, you think he would just stand still?


Where the fuck does it say touching RS would do that?!!

Do you really think Madara is just going to say, "_hang on a sec while I phase my hand through your vital organs_"? Get out of here with your retarded shit. I can't believe you don't think it's possible for Madara to do so given nearly all his feats have highlighted this ability to move whimsically through objects, jutsus, and individuals.


----------



## Skeith (Mar 26, 2010)

HawkMan said:


> Where the fuck does it say touching RS would do that?!!
> 
> Do you really think Madara is just going to say, "_hang on a sec while I phase my hand through your vital organs_"? Get out of here with your retarded shit. I can't believe you don't think it's possible for Madara to do so given nearly all his feats have highlighted this ability to move whimsically through objects, jutsus, and individuals.



"Oh, he phases though my attacks, maybe if I just stand here, he won't hit me"

He can't phase through gravity or phase his soul.


----------



## HawkMan (Mar 26, 2010)

Skeith said:


> "Oh, he phases though my attacks, maybe if I just stand here, he won't hit me"
> 
> He can't phase through gravity or phase his soul.


Where are you coming up with this shit? You're really starting to piss me off. Give me some evidence RS is capable of doing that.

So are you saying-RS recognizes that his attacks are futile and decides to run?


----------



## Wez ★ (Mar 26, 2010)

HawkMan said:


> Where are you coming up with this shit? You're really starting to piss me off. Give me some evidence RS is capable of doing that.


You have seen the paths of Pein yes? They are all part of the Rinnegan?


----------



## HawkMan (Mar 26, 2010)

Wezzy said:


> You have seen the paths of Pein yes? They are all part of the Rinnegan?


So? 

How fucking old are you people? Explain yourselves and write intelligibly! You sound like fucking two-year olds who don't know how to speak.


----------



## ZE (Mar 26, 2010)

HawkMan said:


> If I understand correctly; the _Rin'negan _allows you to master any technique-with training. The _sharingan _allows you to instantaneous learn any technique within your skill-set-though not immediately mastered.
> 
> So-basically-RS couldn't pull an ST jutsu out of his ass. Furthermore-little offense is needed with Madara's jutsu. Say-for example-he phases his hands into RS's chest and rips his heart out. Selective tangibility can go both ways-it takes little imagination to think he could do this to virtually anyone without a S-T jutsu to counter.



If he could do that, he would be invincible, just like Pain would be invincible if he used the “kill someone by looking at them” jutsu. Chances are Madara can’t do that. But if you want to assume he can, then a rinnegan user can beat any sharingan user as long as that sharingan user lacks Madara’s space time ninjutsu, and for that Basho Tennin is all that will be needed. Wanna know why? Well, just pull the enemy’s eyes out of their head with Basho Tennin and it’s game over. It would take one second for a rinnegan user to beat any sharingan user without Madara’s jutsu with just Basho Tennin. 

As you can see, using your imagination also works to make the Rinnegan more powerful. I mean, you can even use your imagination from this statements:
-Can use any jutsu.
-Sharingan came from Rinnegan.
-Death powers.


----------



## Wez ★ (Mar 26, 2010)

HawkMan said:


> So?
> 
> How fucking old are you people? Explain yourselves and write intelligibly! You sound like fucking two-year olds who don't know how to speak.


We're making perfect sense, if you need it in plain english.

HE'S TALKING ABOUT THE PATH THAT SUCKS OUT PEOPLES FUCKING SOULS.

And yes, I am a two year old. You sure know how to hit me where it hurts.


----------



## HawkMan (Mar 26, 2010)

Ya-but did I really stretch the imagination that much? Having witnessed Madara phase through _people, objects, and jutsus_...can you deny that it's not selective intangibility? Furthermore-when have those jutsus you speak of ever worked anything other than fodder-thus no credibility.


----------



## HawkMan (Mar 26, 2010)

RS is the same as the Six Paths of Pain? That's new to me.


----------



## Skeith (Mar 26, 2010)

HawkMan said:


> Where are you coming up with this shit? You're really starting to piss me off. Give me some evidence RS is capable of doing that.
> 
> So are you saying-RS recognizes that his attacks are futile and decides to run?



All of Pain's moves came from his eyes. RS could do it too.

That means he can do:


----------



## Wez ★ (Mar 26, 2010)

HawkMan said:


> RS is the same as the Six Paths of Pain? That's new to me.


I didn't say that though did I. The powers in the Six Paths are the power of the Rinnegan. Rikudo didn't have Six Paths, but we know he still had the abilities.


----------



## HawkMan (Mar 26, 2010)

So-you're implying that just all users of the _Rin'negan _have access to the same techniques-regardless of time, and abilities? 

So the user is completely irrelevant-it's the _doujutsu _that instantly grants jutsus and skills? The user doesn't have to learn anything at all-he is simply born with those jutsus?


----------



## Skeith (Mar 26, 2010)

HawkMan said:


> So-you're implying that just all users of the _Rin'negan _have all access to the same techniques-regardless of time, and abilities?



Yes. All 2 of them. Cause unlike the Shargian, they don't have to kill family member and have eye transplants in order to use them.


----------



## HawkMan (Mar 26, 2010)

You're seriously telling me that the founder of the Ninja world and Nagato had the same skillset-the same access to techniques, the same knowledge of jutsus? The same physical abilities to perform sayed jutsus? You're telling me that it was the _Rin'negan_ and the users have absofuckinglutely nothing to do with it's execution?


----------



## ZE (Mar 26, 2010)

HawkMan said:


> Ya-but did I really stretch the imagination that much? Having witnessed Madara phase through _people, objects, and jutsus_...can you deny that it's not selective intangibility? Furthermore-when have those jutsus you speak of ever worked anything other than fodder-thus no credibility.



Hanzou, a guy strong enough to beat the sannin, run from a young man who had his legs burned and who could barely move? Dude, if the guy run away as soon as he saw Genzou Mazu, it shows he knew that he would’ve died if he didn’t make a run for it. So, to beat Genzou Mazu you have to at least be stronger than a legendary guy who shits on the sannin. 

It beats fodder, true, but it also beats people with a soul, fodder or not. 

Madara can be killed by a rinnegan user if his soul is present on the battlefield when his intangibility jutsu is active. It’s true Madara’s body can’t be touched, but his soul is still there, or is he in another place controlling a ghost that looks like him? It doesn’t look like it, so I’ll assume a jutsu like Genzou Mazu would be perfect to beat him.


----------



## Wez ★ (Mar 26, 2010)

HawkMan said:


> You're seriously telling me that the founder of the Ninja world and Nagato had the same skillset-the same access to techniques, the same knowledge of jutsus?


What are you trying to get at? If not, Rikudo had more... what's you're point? He will of still had all of Nagato's abilities.


----------



## Skeith (Mar 26, 2010)

HawkMan said:


> You're seriously telling me that the founder of the Ninja world and Nagato had the same skillset-the same access to techniques, the same knowledge of jutsus?



Not all of of them, just the justu that the Rignnin give. Just like the MS gives Thusymomi, Amastusu and Susannao'o


----------



## AkiraDono (Mar 26, 2010)

well... the rinnengan doesn't cause blindness... soo.....


----------



## HawkMan (Mar 26, 2010)

What I'm getting at is you're assigning all these skills with no basis that they in fact shared the same skill-set. You're basically making this shit up and passing it along as manga. 

It's not your fucking manga-so stop with the fanfics. Where in the manga has it stated that all _Rin'negan_ users are the same. All _Rin'negan _users have the same skill-sets, physical capabilities, and etc?

Because if it doesn't fucking say that- then everything you just sayed is complete bullshit. You have no fucking idea if RS could do that shit. You're only assumption is "Well, they both had the _Rin'negan _so I'm sure that RS could do what Nagato did with that _doujutsu_".


----------



## Skeith (Mar 26, 2010)

HawkMan said:


> What I'm getting at is you're assigning all these skills with no basis that they in fact shared the same skill-set. You're basically making this shit up and passing it along as manga.
> 
> It's not your fucking manga-so stop with the fanfics. Where in the manga has it stated that all _Rin'negan_ users are the same. All _Rin'negan _users have the same skill-sets, physical capabilities, and etc?
> 
> Because if it doesn't fucking say that- then everything you just sayed is complete bullshit. You have no fucking idea if RS could do that shit.



So you are saying that Madara does not have Tyusomi and Astamaru.


----------



## Wez ★ (Mar 26, 2010)

HawkMan said:


> What I'm getting at is you're assigning all these skills with no basis that they in fact shared the same skill-set. You're basically making this shit up and passing it along as manga.
> 
> It's not your fucking manga-so stop with the fanfics. Where in the manga has it stated that all _Rin'negan_ users are the same. All _Rin'negan _users have the same skill-sets, physical capabilities, and etc?
> 
> Because if it doesn't fucking say that- then everything you just sayed is complete bullshit. You have no fucking idea if RS could do that shit.


So, you think, Nagato had more abilities than Rikudo? The guy who started everything?
It's not your manga either, why assume Madara can "phase into his chest and rip out his heart"?
We don't even know if his phasing tech is anything to do with the Sharingan, I know it probably is but you guys are even making that up, assuming all Sharingan users get that, and Kamui.


----------



## HawkMan (Mar 26, 2010)

That is analogous how?


----------



## HawkMan (Mar 26, 2010)

Skeith said:


> So you are saying that Madara does not have Tyusomi and Astamaru.


Where are you going with this? Are you simply mimickinge my posting style? I ask questions to bring you to a point-are you doing the same?

I'm not even certain if Sasuke has _Tsyukyomi_-but I think that Tsukyomi and Amaterasu are likely staple jutsus of the Uchiha clan. 


Wezzy said:


> So, you think, Nagato had more abilities than Rikudo? The guy who started everything?
> It's not your manga either, why assume Madara can "phase into his chest and rip out his heart"?
> We don't even know if his phasing tech is anything to do with the Sharingan, I know it probably is but you guys are even making that up, assuming all Sharingan users get that, and Kamui.


No-I didn't even imply he had more moves. Simply that they could be different, because they are different people. Invariably a plethora of occurances could have taken place that would effect the development of their doujutsu. 

Secondly-I never said Madara's S-T jutsus had anything to do with his doujutsu. Simply that it's been show to be selective-meaning he can choose what and where he phases through.


----------



## Deshwitat (Mar 26, 2010)

HawkMan said:


> What I'm getting at is you're assigning all these skills with no basis that they in fact shared the same skill-set. You're basically making this shit up and passing it along as manga.
> 
> It's not your fucking manga-so stop with the fanfics. Where in the manga has it stated that all _Rin'negan_ users are the same. All _Rin'negan _users have the same skill-sets, physical capabilities, and etc?
> 
> Because if it doesn't fucking say that- then everything you just sayed is complete bullshit. You have no fucking idea if RS could do that shit. You're only assumption is "Well, they both had the _Rin'negan _so I'm sure that RS could do what Nagato did with that _doujutsu_".



Fanbook entry: 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Naruto Fanbook II - Rinnegan

*The wielder of the Rinnegan has seven powers to his beck and call*. Giving off a particularly conspicuous vibe is the Outer Path. With the ability that can only be used by Nagato, the "real body" that manipulates Pain, he has the power to transcend even the concepts of Life and Death!! It consumes a large amount of chakra, but when used, it has the ability to even resurrect those who have met with Death.

Also all the techniques the Six Paths of Pain had shown were Doujutsu-based.



And a manga page to back it up:
 The one who *masters the Rinnegan* masters the powers of the seven paths. 

Rikudo Sennin could control the same powers that the six Paths of Pain could.


----------



## Skeith (Mar 26, 2010)

HawkMan said:


> No-the manga says this. Show me where the manga proves anything you've said.
> 
> No-I didn't even imply he had more moves. Simply that they could be different, because they are different people. Invariably a plethora of occurances could have taken place that would effect the development of their doujutsu.
> 
> Secondly-I never said Madara's S-T jutsus had anything to do with his doujutsu. Simply that it's been show to be selective-meaning he can choose what and where he phases through.



Data book. It said all those moves are blood-line justu from the Rignnin.

RS can also just seal him away.


----------



## Wez ★ (Mar 26, 2010)

Deshwitat said:


> Fanbook entry:
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...


This. The Rinnegan allows the user to use all Six Paths.


----------



## HawkMan (Mar 26, 2010)

Fanbook? HHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH


-Im done with you newbs.


----------



## Skeith (Mar 26, 2010)

HawkMan said:


> Fanbook? HHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
> 
> 
> -Im done with you newbs.



Fanbook, Databook, and Manga said the same thing.

Translation: "I was wrong but don't want to admit it cause I suck the Uchina's %#@%"


----------



## Wez ★ (Mar 26, 2010)

HawkMan said:


> Fanbook? HHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
> 
> 
> -Im done with you newbs.


Oh right, you're ignoring the manga page then?


----------



## Deshwitat (Mar 26, 2010)

I think he believe that the fanbook was created by fans, as its name might suggest. But the fanbook is a creation of Kishimoto, a mini-databook if you so wish.


----------



## Cursed Avenger (Mar 26, 2010)

Better looking? Yes. Ability wise? No.


----------



## Skeith (Mar 26, 2010)

Cursed Avenger said:


> Better looking? Yes. Ability wise? No.



This I accept. Those eyes can have some pretty cool designs.


----------



## Sasukekillsitachi (Mar 26, 2010)

Wow... soo much fail spread everywhere...

Madara makes Pain cry which we get as rain, so plzz do the math


----------



## Skeith (Mar 26, 2010)

Sasukekillsitachi said:


> Wow... soo much fail spread everywhere...
> 
> Madara makes Pain cry which we get as rain, so plzz do the math



Pain can control the weather. 

Do the math.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 26, 2010)

Sasukekillsitachi said:


> Wow... soo much fail spread everywhere...
> 
> Madara makes Pain cry which we get as rain, so plzz do the math


...the other Sasuke fanboys are being banned, how are you avoiding that?

Madara runs away from Pain. Madara says Pain is invincible.


----------



## ceralux (Mar 26, 2010)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> ...the other Sasuke fanboys are being banned, how are you avoiding that?
> 
> Madara runs away from Pain. Madara says Pain is invincible.



Madara says a lot of things. Since when is what Madara says law


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 26, 2010)

ceralux said:


> Madara says a lot of things. Since when is what Madara says law


Since its backed up by what Jiraiya and Fukasaku says. Since its backed up by the Databook and Fanbook. 

All canon points to Pain being invincible unless you had knowledge.


----------



## Lelouchprince3 (Mar 26, 2010)

It depends on the user ridkiuo sage pwns everything in the show but pein hasnt realy matured his powers and i dont see how he can because in his mind he was already a god....That doesnt leave much room for growth does it? so imo it all depends on the user but as of right now madara is the strongest character in the show period..... but its not neccerialy due to sharingon.


----------



## 2FeelthePain4 (Mar 26, 2010)

The Rinnegan is better... because it can retain any known techniques within the ninja world. The Sharingan pales in comparison to the Rinnegan for plenty of reasons... the Uchihatards are just... tards.


----------



## Jυstin (Mar 26, 2010)

Soloman said:


> True, but Itachi was thought to be _severely injured_ before his fight and was very young compared to Nagato. Just because Nagato's talent or intelligence isn't comparable doesn't disregard his usage of the Rinnegan completely.



Oh I know. I'm just saying Itachi was that good. IMO he made Nagato look like a novice with his Rinnegan. Itachi's performance was god-like, even more so when you consider how he was holding back, faking, and while sick. Sharingan's true potential was definitely brought out in him, and he didn't even have EMS. EMS Itachi could easily be made the strongest character when you take into account the amount of hidden power we _didn't_ see from Itachi.



Skeith said:


> Oh dear God.
> 
> 
> *They are stronger with a host then by themselves.
> *



That's a nice comparison, but Sanbi is a mouse compared to Kyuubi. I doubt Sanbi with a host could take on Kyuubi even if it didn't have a host.


----------



## beij (Mar 26, 2010)

Madara's warping technique is INSTANTANEOUS. Rikudo is dead beofre he can do anything

rinnegan provides no defense to sharingan genjutsu

you people are overateing and state up making things up in regards to rinnegans sould suck/chakra absorbtion; madara INSTANTANEOUSLY warps rikudo befoe he can even do those things; you people are saying that chakra gets absorbs just by touching rikudo? stop making things up and spreading propaganda. its not very becoming

prove that rinnegans chakra absorbtion can absorb Susano? proove that Gedo Mazo can absorb susano and not get absorbed by sword of totsuka (rikudo overcoming a complete susano is doubtful, much less kamui or madara's warping tech)

Tsukiyomi would destroy rikudo's mind, unless you can proove that sharingan/occular genjutsu is inefective, which nothing states this (the dead bodies of pain are, but not thel iving bodies of Nagato or Rikudo)

not to be underestimated is Danzo, as izanagi times 10 would mean the death of any character not protected by a plot shield. also their is shishui's mind controlong dojutsu, which could go tell rikudo to kill himself 

Kamui at this point can potentially sniper anybodies head off, as nobody in the manga thus far (aside from Madara with teleportation) has moved faster that Sasuke's arrows, which according to a certain calc are mach 23; also manga feats support the speed of those arrows...which Kakashi easily warped

sharingan>rinnegan

Madara can INSTANTANEOUSLY warp Rikudo before he can even do anything, and evade his attacks with teleportaion if he does get lucky do to plot and counters. and then Madara INSTANTANEOULY warps him

stop being ignorant little spoiled children. stop assuming that Rikudo can simply absorb somones chakar just by being touched without even activating the technique. bewfore he even has time to do shinra tensei or any attack, Madara instantaneously warps him. madara can do this to anybody in the manga at the moment, but prefers using paws like pain. "dont mess with the Uchiha"

sharingan>rinnegan


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 26, 2010)

beij said:


> Madara's warping technique is INSTANTANEOUS. Rikudo is dead beofre he can do anything


He can't attack and be intangible simultaneously



> rinnegan provides no defense to sharingan genjutsu


Based on?



> you people are overateing and state up making things up in regards to rinnegans sould suck/chakra absorbtion; madara INSTANTANEOUSLY warps rikudo befoe he can even do those things; you people are saying that chakra gets absorbs just by touching rikudo? stop making things up and spreading propaganda. its not very becoming


QQ



> prove that rinnegans chakra absorbtion can absorb Susano? proove that Gedo Mazo can absorb susano and not get absorbed by sword of totsuka (rikudo overcoming a complete susano is doubtful, much less kamui or madara's warping tech)


Susanoo= made of chakra
Chakra absorbing: Absorbs all chakra based techniques. Easy!



> Tsukiyomi would destroy rikudo's mind, unless you can proove that sharingan/occular genjutsu is inefective, which nothing states this (the dead bodies of pain are, but not thel iving bodies of Nagato or Rikudo)


Ey= tools. Zetsu said clearly it comes down to the power of the shinobi to break out



> not to be underestimated is Danzo, as izanagi times 10 would mean the death of any character not protected by a plot shield. also their is shishui's mind controlong dojutsu, which could go tell rikudo to kill himself


A Rinnegan user could absorb all of Danzo's techniques, actually


> Kamui at this point can potentially sniper anybodies head off, as nobody in the manga thus far (aside from Madara with teleportation) has moved faster that Sasuke's arrows, which according to a certain calc are mach 23; also manga feats support the speed of those arrows...which Kakashi easily warped


PRove how fast Sasuke's arrows move. Nobody was ever incapable of reacting to them


> sharingan>rinnegan


Manga says otherwise


----------



## Skeith (Mar 26, 2010)

Just stop *beij*.

You are repeating yourself and nothing you are saying are being supporting by manga fact or non-uchina tards.


----------



## beij (Mar 26, 2010)

your pathetic

you are not worth my time

so what madara canot attck and be intangible at the same time? madara's warping attck is INSTANTANEOS, which means an INSTANANEOUSLY warped Rikudo. this should be a simple concept to grasp

Sword of Totsuka seals a rinnegan user before it can even be absorbed, and it will not be absorbed instantly

and if you want to say that Rinnegan absorbs ALL chakra, than i can say that Yata Miror blocks all attacks, combo'd with sword of Totsuka. dealed rinnegan user

Kamui=severed head

Madara warps Rikudo instantly

peace


----------



## 2FeelthePain4 (Mar 26, 2010)

beij said:


> your pathetic
> 
> you are not worth my time
> 
> ...



Do you know everything about Rikuodu and the full power of the Rinnegan? The person who has been acclaimed as the forefather of the shinobi world and the person who first created and invented ninja techinques? You're saying that the Sharingan, a mutation of the Rinnegan, is vastly superior? You're stating facts that we have seen of Madara so far when we have no information on the full capabilities of Rikudou? You are being laughably silly.


----------



## beij (Mar 26, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> Corrected, so sorry





Rikudo has NO defense against Madara's INSTANTANEOUS warping tech. NONE AT ALL. it is INSTANTANEOUS

Madara could definately kill Rikudo, and some other Sharingan user could possibly as well

sharingan>rinnegan

rinnegan EVOLVED into sharingan, sharingan controls tailed beast just by looking at them

sharigan could defeate the rinnegan just by looking at it (not the 6 paths of pain, but Nagato anfd Rikudo)

space/time jutsu and tseudo genjutsu of the sharingan>rinnegan


----------



## Skeith (Mar 26, 2010)

beij said:


> your pathetic
> 
> you are not worth my time
> 
> ...



Wraping Rikudo require Madara to touch him. Touching him will Drain the charka and the warping justu.

Madara does not have the sword and shield, Itachi does. Since Itachi dead, he would have to transplant Itachi eyes to his, but that will make him lose the EMS.

Kamui=Justu. Justu=Drain.


----------



## beij (Mar 26, 2010)

peace...........


----------



## Skeith (Mar 26, 2010)

beij said:


> peace...........



You are going to stop with your Bull here then?


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 26, 2010)

Your *opinion* is no better, Skeith. I thought you acknowledged that you were being rude and childish the other night? Why are you continuing that behavior?


----------



## beij (Mar 26, 2010)

Skeith said:


> Wraping Rikudo require Madara to touch him. Touching him will Drain the charka and the warping justu.
> 
> Madara does not have the sword and shield, Itachi does. Since Itachi dead, he would have to transplant Itachi eyes to his, but that will make him lose the EMS.
> 
> Kamui=Justu. Justu=Drain.



WTF!!!!!!

Madara warps rikudo before he can even activate such jutsu. Madara;s warping tech is instantaneous!!!! 

WTF!!!!Kamui severs Rikudo's head before he can even do anything!!!! also Kamui is a dientional rift, and although it uses chakra, the actuall dimnentional rift is not chakra, but a dimentional rift; rikudo would have to avoid the entire fricken dimention! however that does not even matter, as with Kamui's new feats, a bloodlusted Kakashi Kamui's off rikudo's now severed head. this i manga fact

 Kamui is a dimentional rift=Rikudo/Nagato's severed head

Madara's INSTANTANEOUS warping tech destroys Rikudo before he can activate any jutsu

that is all that is needed to proove sharingan superiority, and there are other techs that can defeat rinnegan users, many i have already mentioned. hecj sharingan predictability would be enough in some cases

sharingan>rinnegan, and this is manga fact supported by feats (a bloodlusted Madara against any single oppononent is unstopable due to his instantaneous warping tech, which he did NOT have against Hashirama. Kamui is also lethal, amoung other techs)


----------



## 2FeelthePain4 (Mar 26, 2010)

beij said:


> rinnegan EVOLVED into sharingan, sharingan controls tailed beast just by looking at them
> 
> sharigan could defeate the rinnegan just by looking at it (not the 6 paths of pain, but Nagato anfd Rikudo)
> 
> space/time jutsu and tseudo genjutsu of the sharingan>rinnegan



You say the Rinnegan evolved into the Sharingan? 




This makes your argument completely irrelevant.

The Rinnegan is the original dojutsu, the Sharingan is a mutation and a lesser pure variation of the former.


Also it's a common misconception that Sharingan can control Tailed Beasts... THEY CAN'T CONTROL ANY OF THE TAILED BEASTS EXCEPT FOR THE NINE TAILED FOX!

and it requires a Sharingan user to have the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan to control the Nine Tailed Fox... most likely at a perilous cost.


----------



## Skeith (Mar 26, 2010)

Soloman said:


> Your *opinion* is no better, Skeith. I thought you acknowledged that you were being rude and childish the other night? Why are you continuing that behavior?



Last night=/= Right now. 

I know I'm being a little mean, but I live by a code:


"I treat you like you treat me"

Besides, I provided proof from the Manga and Databooks and not saying my opinion is fact. In other threads where I made a theory, I said "It unlikely, but possible."


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 26, 2010)

You act like mutation is a bad thing. And I believe it was stated that the Mangekyō is all that is needed to control the Fox. Skeith, I recommend you adjust your policy to _treating other how you want to be treated._


----------



## GeneralSummer (Mar 26, 2010)

I'm so sick of this RETARDED debate. So i'm going to finally open my mouth about it.

*THE RINNEGAN ALONE DID NOT CREATE SIX PATHS.*

Lets all first get that through our skulls. The RikudouSennin is the one who created the six paths, hence his name. Stop crediting a TOOL for doing something that was its masters own work. Thats like saying mozart was only as great as he was because his piano was painted black. Thats just retarded. If you suck, you're going to suck reguardless of whatever it is you're using. The rinnegan, like the sharingan, like the Byakugan, is a tool. 

If the Rinnegan is so powerful that it could carry its masters utter lack of skill all on its own, why was Nagato such an absolute push over (I will give you this though, PNJ is a bitch)? The people who use the Sharingan have always been considered the top *NINJA* in whatever it is they're doing because their skills accel greatly in almost anything it is they're doing. That isn't fangirl-ism on my part, its whats been written by Kishimoto himself.  But notice what it says? TOP NINJA. This means that before the sharingan was even thrown into the equation, they were top. So, this implies that with or without Bloodline blessings, they are great ninja.

That being said, if the rinnegan was really so powerful, why is it that Nagato wasn't even able to defeat Naruto ALONE when he had SIX different bodies fighting at the same time? Let me help clear it up a little bit. *THE RINNEGAN ITSELF ISN'T WHAT MAKES THE USER POWERFUL.*

Now, lets compare abilities.

What does the rinnegan alone have that could combat the Sharingan? (And no, before you say it, Chibaku Tensei and Shinra Tensei were not part of the rinnegan's abilities. None of the abilities that Pain demonstrated were, so don't go there.) 

*Rinnegan vs Tsukuyomi*
In a battle of genjutsu, the rinnegan has shown some level of invulnerability to genjutsu. But, against Tsukuyomi is different. With one body, the user would easily be over-come by the tsukuyomi. How effective would it be? Who knows. Thats a toss up. But the rinnegan would not be able to directly combat tsukuyomi, without the help of its user.

*Rinnegan vs Amaterasu*
What does the rinnegan have at its disposal that could do away with amaterasu?  Once again, don't bring up the "hungry ghost" or Chibaku/Shinra tensei because they were not abilities of the rinnegan. From what I can see, the rinnegan has no known abilities that could defend it from burning up against the amaterasu. So, unless someone knows something I don't about the rinnegan, it loses there to.

*Rinnegan vs any version of Susano'o*
Kay, so, what does the rinnegan do to protect its master from being completely obliterated? Lol, nothing. This has been proven due to Pain getting hit by both Konohamaru's and Naruto's Rasengan's. No defense, game over against Susano'o.

*Rinnegan vs Kakashi's technique*
Same thing applies here that appplied with Susano'o. Rinnegan has no way to defend itself alone. It needs help from its master.

Now lets compare the rinnegan to the basic sharingan.

*Speed*
The sharingan reads speeds faster than the rinnegan. This allows for the sharingan user to defend himself more accurately, where as the rinnegan has shown no known ways to handle extreme speeds. It loses in this aspect as well.

*Chakra Detection*
I know that the Rinnegan has the ability to read chakra, just like the sharingan and the byakugan, so it evens out there. No contest.

It seems to either lose, or fall equal in these two aspects, easily.




So to be honest, while I can understand where the arguement comes from, the rinnegan by itself has no chance against the Sharingan by itself. The rinnegan is completely dependant on its users abilities where as the sharingan is in some form self-reliant and does a good job of making sure its user is well protected, thus defending itself from harm as well.


In Short, YES, the sharingan is indeed better than the rinnegan in terms of its abilities and how affective it is in battle. You show me where i'm wrong, and i'll show you a pink Mr. T.


----------



## Lightysnake (Mar 26, 2010)

Your argument is based on how the Six Paths' powers don't come from the Rinnegan. Flawed already.

Chapter 449? Konan says they're Rinnegan powers.
Official fanbook, written by Kishimoto? Stated as Rinnegan powers, sorry. 
And the idea Nagato was a push over with the Rikudou Pain ability? Yeah, no.


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 26, 2010)




----------



## 2FeelthePain4 (Mar 26, 2010)

beij said:


> WTF!!!!!!
> 
> Madara warps rikudo before he can even activate such jutsu. Madara;s warping tech is instantaneous!!!!
> 
> ...



you're basing your argument purely on guesswork.

Nagato without his crippled body and being bloodlusted would most likely defeat Madara with his Rinnegan.

Rikudou is the forefather of the Senju and Uchiha clan and the members of each respective clan have separate traits inherited from Rikudou, not the whole trait which belongs to Rikudou himself. Rikudou can definetely take on any of his future great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandson easily, which includes Madara and Hashirama.

Next time if you try to make an argument based on guesswork, use manga facts and there is enough manga fact to hint that Rikudou is a 'God' unto himself which Madara pales in comparison. The only way Madara can surpass Rikudou is by becoming the vessel of the ten tailed bijuu and that's a BIG MAYBE.


----------



## Skeith (Mar 26, 2010)

beij said:


> WTF!!!!!!
> 
> 1)Madara warps rikudo before he can even activate such jutsu. Madara;s warping tech is instantaneous!!!!
> 
> ...



1) 

You were saying.

2) The charka would have to bend the space around him, Thus the charka would have to be near his head.



As you can see, the charka and justu absorbing range is larger.

3 & 4) Please show this "facts"


----------



## 2FeelthePain4 (Mar 26, 2010)

Skeith said:


> 1)
> 
> You were saying.
> 
> ...



Don't argue with him about how jutsu works... the point he is trying to get across is that Madara is stronger than Rikudou, which is silly, you need to focus on this aspect of the argument which will shut him down instead of wasting another dozen posts on 'how jutsu works versus one another in a hypotheical situation'


----------



## 2FeelthePain4 (Mar 26, 2010)

GeneralSummer said:


> That being said, if the rinnegan was really so powerful, why is it that Nagato wasn't even able to defeat Naruto ALONE when he had SIX different bodies fighting at the same time? Let me help clear it up a little bit. *THE RINNEGAN ITSELF ISN'T WHAT MAKES THE USER POWERFUL.*



Naruto had luck on his side in order to defeat the six paths of Pain, he didn't beat them alone. He had help, which was critical otherwise he would have been captured then killed after his bijuu was extracted. Naruto had the assistance of the toads, preparation time to set two clones back in Mount Myoboku for additional sage chakra, the intelligence from Tsunade's slugs which was necessary to defeat each individual Pain, Hinata's intervention to rescue him from being captured by harnessing the power of the tailed fox, his father's confidence, and the redemption of Nagato in order to defeat the six paths of Pain.

Saying that Nagato couldn't defeat Naruto alone with six bodies fighting at the same time is silly when you look at all the luck and preparation he had gotten before and during the fight. Naruto was incredibly fortunate but he is nowhere near capable of defeating Pain on his own.


----------



## Black☆Star (Mar 26, 2010)

Nobody should take beij seriously. The guy believes that Rikudou can be defeated by the likes of Madara, Kakashi, Itachi ...


----------



## hellohi (Mar 26, 2010)

Defeating people obviously isn't that easy for Madara. If it was, he could just warp behind Naruto and capture him himself along with all the other jinchuuriki. There's obviously a flaw in Madara's jutsu and we still don't know the mechanics behind it.


----------



## Wez ★ (Mar 26, 2010)

This shit is _still_ going?


----------



## Skeith (Mar 26, 2010)

GeneralSummer said:


> That being said, if the rinnegan was really so powerful, why is it that Nagato wasn't even able to defeat Naruto ALONE when he had SIX different bodies fighting at the same time? Let me help clear it up a little bit. THE RINNEGAN ITSELF ISN'T WHAT MAKES THE USER POWERFUL.



Again in big bold letters. *Ahem*

*PAIN WAS TRYING NOT TO KILL NARUTO, ONLY CAPTURE HIM SO THAT HE COULD GET THE FOX!!!!*


If he was trying to kill him. He could of just stab Naruto in the heart here:



And Here:


----------



## αce (Mar 26, 2010)

Sharingan>Rinnegan.

There. I said it.


----------



## Skeith (Mar 26, 2010)

♠Ace♠ said:


> Sharingan>Rinnegan.
> 
> There. I said it.



And I say this: O.K. If that your opinion.


----------



## dandyman (Mar 26, 2010)

Haters gonna hate.


----------



## Mongolian Chop Squad (Mar 26, 2010)

Are they serious?...

Yes, yes they are.


----------



## beij (Mar 26, 2010)

sharingan>rinnegan

you no why


----------



## Wez ★ (Mar 26, 2010)

beij said:


> sharingan>rinnegan
> 
> you no why


rinnegan>sharingan

you no why


----------



## beij (Mar 26, 2010)

wow

this is getting pathetic


----------



## Wez ★ (Mar 26, 2010)

beij said:


> wow
> 
> this is getting pathetic


This became pathetic along time ago, man.


----------



## Gino (Mar 26, 2010)

............... sharingan fails


----------



## beij (Mar 26, 2010)

whatever brah

ive said enough here......






















for tonight. be back with the sharingan state of mind tomorro or whatever

peace brah


----------



## Wez ★ (Mar 26, 2010)

beij said:


> whatever brah
> 
> ive said enough here......
> 
> ...



Awesome, see you then mate.


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 26, 2010)

This thread was one giant flamebait to begin with, but has since gone off topic.

*Locking*

Wait, wait. I'm not a mod.


----------



## Gino (Mar 26, 2010)

....................


----------

