# Kizaru and Aokiji Vs M3, Doflamingo, Marco, Jozu, Sabo (mera mera no mi) and yami BB



## LyricalMessiah (Jun 21, 2014)

Who wins? I know it's long, but bear with me.


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 21, 2014)

I should probably restrict Yami teach away from this fight?


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## Luke (Jun 21, 2014)

Team 2 medium difficulty. 

Kizaru is slightly stronger than Marco, so if Doflamingo helps Marco then they should be able to take Kizaru down. 

Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Jozu, and Sabo are way more than enough to take out Kuzan.


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## zoro (Jun 21, 2014)

Without Yami Teach: Marco and Sabo take on Kuzan and win, high diff. 

The m3, Dofla and Jozu either stalemate Kizaru until Marco and Sabo are done with their fight, or they manage to pull off a win on the higher end of high diff, probably with a few casualties


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## Ruse (Jun 21, 2014)

The team wins this, Macro and Jozu have already proven they can hold off these two add on Sabo who I think is equal to Jozu and Doflamingo's parasite and they should be able to win this.


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## Magician (Jun 21, 2014)

Master Luke said:


> Team 2 medium difficulty.
> 
> Kizaru is slightly stronger than Marco, so if Doflamingo helps Marco then they should be able to take Kizaru down.
> 
> Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Jozu, and Sabo are way more than enough to take out Kuzan.



^this.**


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## Extravlad (Jun 21, 2014)

> Kizaru is slightly stronger than Marco, so if Doflamingo helps Marco then they should be able to take Kizaru down.


Dofla is fodder to Kizaru.
Marco isn't slightly stronger than Marco.
Kizaru bloodlusted would wipe the floor with Dofla and then defeat Marco high diff.



> Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Jozu, and Sabo are way more than enough to take out Kuzan.


Actually Zoro/Luffy/Sanji are getting killed, then Sabo/Jozu vs Kuzan is 50/50, none of them is as strong as Marco, Kuzan would mid diff any of them in 1V1.

It depends on how long Marco can resist against Borsalino.


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 21, 2014)

Doflamingo is not fodder to Kizaru. Kizaru is stronger, but by no means is he fodder. And I do agree with master Luke. The alliance will win because of their consecutive combined sheer power.


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## Extravlad (Jun 21, 2014)

> Doflamingo is not fodder to Kizaru. Kizaru is stronger, but by no means is he fodder.


He is 100% confirmed fodder to Kizaru.
Oda's words on Sakazuki and how he could put an end to One Piece within a year if he was the main protagonist is just showing how big the gap between Luffy and the C3 is.
Sadly for Doflamingo he's gonna get taken down by Luffy soon enough, that does make him fodder to Kizaru.


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 21, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> He is 100% confirmed fodder to Kizaru.
> Oda's words on Sakazuki and how he could put an end to One Piece within a year if he was the main protagonist is just showing how big the gap between Luffy and the C3 is.
> Sadly for Doflamingo he's gonna get taken down by Luffy soon enough, that does make him fodder to Kizaru.



This comment is absurd. You're trying to say that Doflamingo is weak and possesses no ability to fight akin to that of a human. You're very misinformed and should reread one piece, one, more, time for your sake. Goodness me, you're undermining him. Doflamingo can basically be a commander of a yonkou pirate shit due to the immense strength and talent he possesses, which are portrayed as being able to give an admiral a high diff fight. Oda's words on Sakazuki was him speaking of how easy Sakazuki's journey would have been if you replaced him with the events Luffy has had to face in the storyline. He was able to easily overpower Jozu who had a brief scuffle with Aokiji. He had also escaped from Aokiji's ice ability without any notable injuries and was stated to be a threat by Aokiji himself. He defeated Sanji without much effort, destroyed Law (would have beaten a fully fit Law) and made quick work of Smker.  Kizaru would give a human fodder an easy difficulty fight so are you implying that same fodder would be beaten with the same difficulty Doflamingo would be beaten?


No, Kizaru is definitely above Doflamingo, but is not beating him with ease.


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## Ruse (Jun 21, 2014)

Doflamingo isn't fodder to Kizaru, sure he's weaker but IMO he'd take Kizaru to the lower end of mid diff.


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 21, 2014)

I'd go with mid difficulty seeing how haxxed he is. Anyways, that's not important. The thing is that the admirals lose, but to which level, is what I am trying to figure out.


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## Ruse (Jun 21, 2014)

The team mid high diffs


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## Extravlad (Jun 21, 2014)

> This comment is absurd. You're trying to say that Doflamingo is weak and possesses no ability to fight akin to that of a human.


He does possesses no ability to hurt an admiral yup.



> You're very misinformed and should reread one piece, one, more, time for your sake. Goodness me, you're undermining him.


I think you're the one who's misinformed, since you're hyping DD to be Yonko's firstmate lvl when all he did so far is running away from every admiral he met.



> oflamingo can basically be a commander of a yonkou pirate shit due to the immense strength and talent he possesses,


Doflamingo's men were afraid for his life after a random attack from Kuzan, he had to leave Smoker alive because he was too weak, and he is talking about how it will be hard to kill Fuji despite having his fucking whole family behind him + many great pirates easy to manipulate with bird cage.
How is that a Marco's lvl portrayal? 



> which are portrayed as being able to give an admiral a high diff fight


Are you seriously believing a second that Dofla would give high diff to Akainu?
He would get low diff'd by him , this is why he's the first "boss" of the new world, because he's trash and weak compared to the endgame boss like Sakazuki/Teach.
If DD get taken down by Luffy this arc, it's gonna confirm it for once, he's much weaker than the C3.



> Oda's words on Sakazuki was him speaking of how easy Sakazuki's journey would have been if you replaced him with the events Luffy has had to face in the storyline


Yea he was speaking on how easy it would have been to oneshot Doflamingo like the fodder he is, because DD isn't toptier, and everyone who's not toptier is fodder to the C3.



> He had also escaped from Aokiji's ice ability without any notable injuries and was stated to be a threat by Aokiji himself


Right there this is bullshit.
Aokiji never tried to kill/defeat DD, all he did was pushing him away from Smoker hands in his pockets, he could have killed him by attacking seriously but he didn't.
Doflamingo was stated to be a threat because he is a dangerous criminal from a noble family and he's also dealing with Kaido one of the Yonko.



> He defeated Sanji without much effort


That's not really impressive.



> destroyed Law (would have beaten a fully fit Law)


His only "great" feat so far, beating Law and proving his superiority over him, but still irrelevant because Law is also fodder to Kizaru.



> nd made quick work of Smker


Smoker without his main weapon, Smoker the guy who got beaten by everyone he faced on PH.



> Kizaru would give a human fodder an easy difficulty fight so are you implying that same fodder would be beaten with the same difficulty Doflamingo would be beaten?


Kizaru vs Dofla would look like Dofla vs Smoker/Law/Sanji, you just change the roles this time.


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## StrawHat4Life (Jun 21, 2014)

Doflamingo is fodder to no one in this series. Anyway, the team wins out over the Admirals with medium difficulty at most. Marco and Jozu alone can keep the Admirals busy while the others pile on.


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## Extravlad (Jun 21, 2014)

> Doflamingo is fodder to no one in this series.


He is fodder to any Yonko, to the C3, to WB/Roger, Prime Garp/Rayleigh/Sengoku, list goes on.


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 21, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> He does possesses no ability to hurt an admiral yup.
> 
> 
> I think you're the one who's misinformed, since you're hyping DD to be Yonko's firstmate lvl when all he did so far is running away from every admiral he met.
> ...



I can't believe this debate started over you making a comment that said Doflamingo would get stomped by Kizaru with ease and saying that he's a fodder to kizaru. Doflamingo had absolutely no problem with Luffy, who can give an admiral a mid diff fight, and barely even showed his full strength against Luffy. He stopped Jozu single-highhandedly without much effort, had cut fujitora's meteor into several pieces and was strong enough to defeat luffy without exerting much energy. He's a top tier shishibukai who won't be stomped easily by an admiral, or kizaru in this case.

Of course he does, albeit to a not so much strong extent. His strings are incredibly powerful and have been shown to cause high level of destruction on each and very matters he is shown attacking with his strings. He's shown the ability to react to a meteor inches away from his face and is portrayed as someone stronger than Jozu and a little bit weaker than Marco that the difference between he and marco is almost non existent. He can be viewed as someone equal in strength to a yonkou first mate or commander who've all shown the ability to injure an admiral.

No, your reading comprehension is what's poor and infecting my eye sight. Doflamingo is by no means weak. He has the potential and necessary strength to become a yonkou commander. He's stronger than Ace, can defeat Jozu, Smoker, Law, smoker and vergo who've all proven to be extremely strong. Doflamingo being claimed to be someone capable of being a commander in a yonkou fleet is not a stretch. He is simply that strong and his feats have enough weighting to them.

Blatant fanfiction from our dear Extravalad who disguises himself as Oda in an anime forum. However the notion that he could possibly be Oda is contradicted by the fact that his knowledge on One piece is extremely poor. Doflamingo and his men are two different People. Stop asserting lies of Doflamingo based on the fear his men had of Aokiji. By the way, Doflamingo defeating a vice admiral without much effort is a great feat nevertheless. And the fact he was seen shattering the ice attack Aokiji used against him is a great feat and shows how he can withstand an attack from an Admiral without much problem which many fighters would have died from. Perhaps his whole family weren't stated to join in on his duel against Fujitora as they're too busy doing something else? Well, at this point, it's accepted that Fujitora is above Doflamingo, and of course trying to take care of an Admiral will be no easy task. The key word here is "No easy task" which gives us hint that if Doflamingo were ever to engage in a fight with Fujitora, it would not be EASY, similar with if he fought kizaru, he wouldn't allow himself to get stomped very easily.

Yes, I said it. Yonkou first mates are portrayed as fighters able to give Admirals high difficulty fights. Of course, I never claimed that Doffy would be able to do the same because he isn't on the level of the strongest known first mate of a yonkou. Doffy would still be able to stand his ground though.

Right, this post is utterly wrong. I never said Aokiji tried to kill him, so Strawman would be something I'd like you to stop. I said he was able to tank an admiral's attack without any problems, something that attests to his  durability and strength that can be a contribution to the  fact as to why he wouldn't get stomped easily by kizaru.  That is impressive. Defeating a M3 fighter without trying, as well as defeating Law with easy difficulty is something that lends credence to his strength despite the fighters he fight not being on the level of Kizaru. It still says something to him not being weak to the point he'd get stomped easily by kizaru. Smoker is strong, stood up against Vergo yet was defeated. However he was easily beaten by Doflamingo, a marvelous feat.

You're ignorant of the disparity of power among Doflamingo, smoker and Law. Doflamingo is well above them, and thus would be much harder for Kizaru to handle him.


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## Vengeance (Jun 21, 2014)

Team 2 should win this, it's just too much for the 2 admirals to handle.


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 21, 2014)

And I don't see anything to argue about other than the contestants. Kizaru is very powerful indeed, in the top 5 strongest current fighters in the story line, but he isn't going to stomp doflamingo easily.


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## Extravlad (Jun 21, 2014)

> Doflamingo had absolutely no problem with Luffy, who can give an admiral a mid diff fight,


I stopped reading there.
No need to go further, your just deluded.
We'll talk about it in a few months after Luffy is done with Doffy.


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## StrawHat4Life (Jun 21, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> He is fodder to any Yonko, to the C3, to WB/Roger, Prime Garp/Rayleigh/Sengoku, list goes on.



When you say fodder do you mean being one shot or something on that level? Because that's not happening.


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 21, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> I stopped reading there.
> No need to go further, your just deluded.
> We'll talk about it in a few months after Luffy is done with Doffy.



I stopped reading the moment you claimed unsupported notions by the author. Mid diff isn't something extraordinary and Luffy is definitely not going to succumb to an Admiral with easy difficulty when he trained with the first mate of the pirate king. 


Anyways, Kizaru would defeat Doflamingo with Mid difficulty only, now let me watch argentina vs iran


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## Extravlad (Jun 21, 2014)

> When you say fodder do you mean being one shot or something on that level? Because that's not happening.


It depends on how serious they are I guess.
But yea if they're bloodlusted they would smash him into the ground with one of their best attacks.



> Mid diff isn't something extraordinary and Luffy is definitely not going to succumb to an Admiral with easy difficulty when he trained with the first mate of the pirate king.


Luffy is confirmed on the same tier as Jinbe and Ace.
Both Jinbe and Ace got raped by admirals, with giving them anything but mid difficulty.
At this point saying that Luffy can give mid diff to an admiral is bullshit and nonsense.


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## Ruse (Jun 21, 2014)

Luffy can't take an Admiral to mid diff he's weaker than Doflamingo


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 21, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> It depends on how serious they are I guess.
> But yea if they're bloodlusted they would smash him into the ground with one of their best attacks.
> 
> 
> ...



Of course not and says who?. Luffy is slightly above the both of them when fighting against them individually. Hence his feats of destroying island sized ships and displaying extraordinary strength and speed and consistency against strong opponents. JImbei and Ace aren't stronger than Luffy and time skip luffy with adept mastery over CoA and CoO is by no means going to lose to an admiral with easy difficulty the way in which he lost in the pre time skip. It's called progression. Your comment is bullshit and nonsense. Nevertheless, Doflamingo stills loses to Kizaru with mid difficulty only and the gap of difficulty between luffy and dolamingo in losing to Kizaru may not be too wide, albeit the one of Doflamingo's is a little bit smaller.


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## blueframe01 (Jun 21, 2014)

Team 2 wins with little diffficulty. 
Marco & Dofla are more than enough to beat Kizaru. (and no, Dofla isn't a fodder to anyone)
Jozu & Sabo beats Aokiji with mid difficulty. Sabo alone could take the fight to an extreme difficulty. Having a fighter like Jozu helping in pretty much ends the fight rather quickly IMO.

the rest of the fighters end up beating Teach to death. bastard had it coming


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 21, 2014)

blueframe01 said:


> Team 2 wins with little diffficulty.
> Marco & Dofla are more than enough to beat Kizaru. (and no, Dofla isn't a fodder to anyone)
> Jozu & Sabo beats Aokiji with mid difficulty. Sabo alone could take the fight to an extreme difficulty. Having a fighter like Jozu helping in pretty much ends the fight rather quickly IMO.
> 
> the rest of the fighters end up beating Teach to death. bastard had it coming



solid post

hahaha at that last line... friend should just die already


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## Luke (Jun 21, 2014)

Doflamingo is not fodder to Kizaru...for god's sake.


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## monkey d ace (Jun 21, 2014)

marco/dofla/jozu/sabo are enough. M3 and Y.teach are not needed.


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## tanman (Jun 21, 2014)

The bigger group takes it pretty comfortably.
Marco and Jozu can take down Aokiji using their durability to get up close slug and slug until they get their win. Sabo + Blackbeard + Doflamingo should suffice to take down Kizaru with their collective haxx.


M3 runs interference and makes things easier.


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## Extravlad (Jun 21, 2014)

> Luffy is slightly above the both of them when fighting against them individually


Slightly above both of them right?





Both of them are fodders to Sakazuki, should I mention that Yami Teach (who's arguably stronger than Current Luffy) was also stomped by half-face WB?
Is half-face WB stronger than an admiral now? Or will you just accept that Yami Teach is just fodder to any high toptier?
Everything Oda did so far, is showing us that Sakazuki is miles above Luffy.
Kizaru is extremely close to Sakazuki in power, it's not even contestable honestly, Luffy would get low diff'd by any admiral/yonko including the weaker ones like Fujitora.


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 22, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> Slightly above both of them right?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't know why you even chose  to right this post that does not even address to anything I was saying in the first place. Luffy in the time skip was portrayed as Ace but stronger. The training with rayleigh that he underwent was meant for him to progress in strength at a higher scale than Ace. He definitely exceeded pre time skip Ace. As for JImbei? Of course, it's arguable, but Luffy still has the necessary power and speed to take him down. Most of Luffy's extraordinary feats in fishman island like destroying an island sized ship and knocking a huge seaking with one elephant gun were done while Luffy's power were limited in the sea. That speaks volume as to the enormous power Luffy possesses. The feat that allures my intention the most was his island busting feat that Luffy had displayed without being at full strength nor using his Gear 2 to improve the power and speed behind his attack, EGG. Jimbei most definitely isn't going to survive an elephant gatling gun, or worse, a jet elephant gatling gun aimed at him. We've seen the limits of Jimbei's power, and although some may argue they're neat, they still pale in comparison to Luffy's feats.

Yami teach isn't stronger than Current Luffy  what is this contentless drivel that you're spouting? Yami teach is not stronger than Time skip Luffy because he'd have his face turned inside out by luffy's punches. Yami teach won't be doing anything to someone portrayed as above Ace and with great haki skills. Yami teach won't do good against a monster in the art of physical combat. Luffy, regardless if his devil fruit power gets nullifed, would defeat Yami teach whose hand to hand combat aren't all that good. Furthermore, Luffy would blitz him with his sheer speed and counterattack with devastating power from his punches. If he gets pulled towards Blackbeard, he can spam jet elephant gatling on Blackbeard while he's being pulled towards Blackbeard and cancel blackbeard's power to nullify attacks. Luffy isn't fodder to akainu, or any admiral. He's a worthy fighter that would lose with mid difficulty when in combat against them.


Furthermore, Blackbeard's feat of tanking Whitebeard's choke slam on him wasn't great. While it was a little bit destructive, the power of his hand imbued quake on Blackbeard's throat isn't nearly as good as a clean hit to the head or any body parts for that matter. Take in note that WB was heavily injured and exhausted which made the power behind that choke slam not as what we'd expect from a healthy whitebeard. What exactly did ODA PORTRAYED OF THE ADMIRALS TO MAKE THEM MILES AWAY FROM LUFFY  what would be the point of the time skip if Luffy would get curbstomped easily? He wouldn't get Low diffed.


Anyways, we're detracting away from the main point of this thread and the main convo. Doflamingo isn't a fodder to anybody, deal with it, you admiral wanker.


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## Esdese (Jun 22, 2014)

MF Yami teach is stronger than post-ts luffy

OT: team wins imo


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## Extravlad (Jun 22, 2014)

Lyrical-Messiah you're definitely hopeless if you believe that Luffy > Yami Teach 
And yea DD is fodder to a lot of people, same goes for Luffy.


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 22, 2014)

Esdese said:


> MF Yami teach is stronger than post-ts luffy
> 
> 
> 
> ...



However this does not mean Luffy won't get injured, even if the level of injury he'd gotten from fighting whitebeard aren't all that much. Teach's DF ability might work well against Ace, but for Luffy, its rather useless...Teach could suck Aces DF and was able to land hits and i believe the reason he won the battle against Aces ultimate attack, Entai, was because his blackhole sucked in Entire Entai. When he fights Luffy with his Yami Yami, He can land hits on Luffy thus Luffy will get hurt but Luffy's haki will be there to nullify the force of Blackbeard's attacks. what next.. Luffy has mastered three hakis especially BH and when Teach tries to hit Luffy, unless He has better Haki, or Haki overpowering strength, Luffy won't get hurt. All Teach can do is vacuum stuffs which Luffy can counter attack with a haki imbued jet pistol through being sucked in towards Blackbeard.




Extravlad said:


> Lyrical-Messiah you're definitely hopeless if you believe that Luffy > Yami Teach
> And yea DD is fodder to a lot of people, same goes for Luffy.



You're hopeless if you believe otherwise, that, the one who trained with rayleigh, and the one whose growth in power was by a considerable amount to survive in the new world and for the stories progression will lose to pre time skip Blackbeard. I've already laid out facts concerning why BB won't win and why he doesn't have anything besides Kurouzu to beat Luffy. I mean Luffy in his pre time skip incarnation made Blackbeard bleed a lot with one simple jet pistol so imagine what a haki imbued jet pistol can do to him? Luffy can imbued every parts of his body in CoA armor to block Blackbeard's attacks and his speed is vastly superior to Blackbeard. He can get behind BB without BB noticing to hit him on his back with devastating Jet pistols.

People bring up the Ace vs BB fight but Ace hasn't shown ability of haki. This will be a major factor as Luffy will be able to pack better punches. If Teach tries to black hole Luffy in, I see this as an opportunity for Luffy to use his Haki + Gear 2nd or 3rd + additional speed from the black hole to deal damage. Also double damage from yami yami no mi weakness. If he does hit BB it isn't game over for him due to extreme resilience, but I presume that the Black hole would be cancelled as BB would be badly hurt. Luffy would then spam gear 3rd + Haki, elephant gatling gun and the fight would be over. I think TS Luffy >> Pre-TS Ace in this fight due to Haki prowess, which Ace had not shown any of and still put up a good fight with Teach. And BB has got nothing besides the use of his Yami Yami no mi.


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## Extravlad (Jun 22, 2014)

> You're hopeless if you believe otherwise


Then 90% of OL is hopeless, you missed the thread "Can Luffy gives mid diff to a Yonko" with everyone agreeing that he couldn't and would get low diff'd?

Luffy is relying on his DF more than ever right now, he wasn't able to defeat some weak high tiers like Caesar or Hody without having to use the Gear 3, it just show how bad his firepower is, Blackbeard with the yami yami has a big advantage because of that, he's already stronger and more durable than Luffy, if he can block his Gomu Gomu no mi, Luffy just stand no chance.
-Luffy's CoA sucks, he's not strong enough to stop Hody's bite.
-Luffy's CoO won't help him, he hasn't shown anything impressive so far.
Ace was older than Luffy, he spent more years in the new world, and he was still far from beating Teach in 1V1.

Assuming that Luffy would be able to do it is a fanfiction, BB is the worst match-up possible for a DF user like Luffy.


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 22, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> Then 90% of OL is hopeless, you missed the thread "Can Luffy gives mid diff to a Yonko" with everyone agreeing that he couldn't and would get low diff'd?
> 
> Luffy is relying on his DF more than ever right now, he wasn't able to defeat some weak high tiers like Caesar or Hody without having to use the Gear 3, it just show how bad his firepower is, Blackbeard with the yami yami has a big advantage because of that, he's already stronger and more durable than Luffy, if he can block his Gomu Gomu no mi, Luffy just stand no chance.
> -Luffy's CoA sucks, he's not strong enough to stop Hody's bite.
> ...



What are you saying? Take your fanfiction and leave out of this thread if you don't even want to bother replying by arguing in the proper context and contents found in this thread.

Just because he had trouble with them does not imply he'd lose to them. Slippery slope fallacy at its finest. You actually have to understand why he lost to those characters instead of taking his fights he has had with them out of context. Luffy did defeat Hordy jones and had absolutely no problems annihilating him without any effort from Luffy involved in his attacks on Hordy. When Luffy and Hordy fought at the plaza, Luffy was dodging Hordy's attacks and punched him like he was his ragdoll. After a while, when they fought inside the sea where it's mentioned that fishman grow a considerable amount of strength  in the sea, in conjunction to the pills he consumed that were said to grow your overall strength by X2, hordy pretty much held an advantage over Luffy due to the area they fought in. 

As opposed to Hordy finding the area in which he had fought Luffy as a sort of blessing to his ability because his abilities and overall combat ability was perfectly fit for the sea, Luffy is extremely susceptible to death when he is submerged into the sea because of him being a devil fruit user and  when all he's got as protection from the sea is a small bubble that can be destroyed without much effort.

 Thus Luffy's movements and abilities were very limited when fighting in the sea against Hordy, someone that found it easy to plunge towards Luffy and run circles around him if it's his natural habitat. You have to understand that the only reason Luffy suffered damage was because he was afraid that his bubble would burst and had to try his best to avoid such instances from occurring. Luffy only got hit because he found it hard to maneuver inside a small bubble with barely any space for his body to maneuver and dodge incoming attacks. With that said, his overall fighting abilities weren't at their pinnacle as they'd normally be outside of the sea. His attacks he used on hordy and the ship were dampened by the fact that his abilities are weak when he's making contact with a large quantity of water.

As for Caesar? Caesar was introduced as this new character of a villain to the arc punk hazard who had a lot of hype in him and whose relevance in future instances in the arc will be grandiose. Therefore making him lose to Luffy very quickly would simply be useless and detrimental to his hype and character. 

However that's not ignoring the fact that Luffy lost to him in their first round, albeit only because Luffy wasn't serious because he has a habit of underestimating his opponents and not going all out from the beginning which as we see leads to him getting in trouble, or beat in this case. And the only attack that beat him was Caesar's ability to render a person unconscious by deterring oxygen around a certain proximity. Luffy, being very optimistic and stupid, had no ideas what was going on when he could not breathe when he was near caesar and was also not given information as to how one can regain the ability to breathe that they once had, to which is to distance yourself 5 meters away from the area that Caesar is involved in removing oxygen from. Anyone with no knowledge on Caesar's ability to remove oxygen when they get oxygen removed from the area they're standing on would get succumbed by the sheer weight from their confusion on the way Caesar's ability to remove oxygen works. Besides, Luffy would have easily beaten Caesar in their first round had they had info on how to counter attack his ability to deprive oxygen.

Stop associating what I say as wrong when you clearly haven't been able to offer a good counter to my arguments. BB is a massive tank, but pre-TS he's not catching Luffy.  Speed + CoO is too much for BB. Even if he tried Kuroizu/Black Hole, Luffy's CoO and ranged physical attacks (an advantage Ace didn't have) would allow him to stike BB before he got anywhere near him, and BB needs to pull Luffy all the way towards him in order to inflict any damage.  Basically, BB tries to pull Luffy, Luffy reacts instantly due to CoO and throws a Haki-coated punch (or punches) while he's still several feet away from BB. Even if he's a tank, BB still feels pain and reels back, interrupting his technique long before Luffy comes anywhere near him. Post-TS Luffy can keep pummeling BB while easily keeping a safe distance with his much, much superior speed.

So ok, BB can tank more than anyone, but we can't just assume he tanks indefinitely otherwise he'd stop being a tank, and become immortal. And without any real way to catch Luffy + his complete inability to dodge anything, then its only a matter of time. Luffy is faster than him, can clad his body with haki to block any of Blackbeard's attacks and can, if he wants, imbue every parts of his body with Haki to negate damage output from Blackbeard's attacks. 

Luffy was already injured, dude. And the CoA he had used wasn't the Color of armanent in which black metallic mater appears from a certain body part you wished to imbue CoA with. The haki he used was the invisible Haki which Oda was uncertain whether he should make its functions independent to the Haki where black matter appears or correlate them as the same overall.

He could have used black matter haki to stop Hordy's bite 

Furthermore, Blackbeard's punches (Assuming he catches Luffy which is unlikely) won't be doing any harm to a rubber man who can further compliment his durability with Haki to negate the force of Blackbeard's punches. 

Blackbeard's punches are too inept to injure Luffy's CoA defense. There's nothing Blackbeard can do to land grave injuries on Luffy when he uses his fist to fight. Blatant wanking  Luffy's CoO is impressive like any CoO! It will help him predict what Blackbeard will do moments prior to it actually happen to promptly counterattack with a Gear 2 + haki attack on Blackbeard. Once he gets close to BB, he can dodge BB's attacks and fire a red hawk at him. Horrible logic at play here. Just because Teach beat Ace, who was very reliant on his devil fruit and had nothing else besides his devil fruit to fight which led to his demise when it was restricted by someone with the ability to restrict devil fruit abilities does not mean Luffy will lose or that the same will happen to Luffy. Luffy is more versatile, more durable and actually has Haki to negate blackbeard's attacks, so don't think Luffy will lose if he's a more well versed fighter in the art hand to hand combat, speed, and overall defense than Ace. Luffy has Gear 2, whereas Blackbeard has no decent speed. Blackbeard's punches are weaker than Luffy's punches, and Luffy can improve the strength behind his punches with Gear 2 and Gear 3 used simultaneously.


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## blueframe01 (Jun 22, 2014)

Did someone say that BB is a bad matchup for Luffy? :rofl
Luffy is a horrrible matchup for BB, not the other way round.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Jun 22, 2014)

Team wins.


blueframe01 said:


> Did someone say that BB is a bad matchup for Luffy? :rofl
> *Luffy is a horrible matchup for BB, not the other way round.*


Mind explaining why? Are you seriously saying Luffy is a bad matchup for  Blackbeard?


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## GIORNO (Jun 22, 2014)

The team definitely takes this. They just have too much going for them. Marco is a perfect distraction and someone who can sponge a lot of damage if need be. Jozu can get up close and personal with either of them and stall them long enough for BB to nullify their DFs. DD's capable of virtually any range of attacks so he can help out whoever's pinning Aokiji down while Marco stalls Kizaru (without Kairoseki he should be able to stall Kizaru for long enough that the rest of them team can take down Aokiji). Sabo is unequivocally above Ace so if Ace could match Aokiji with Kyoukaen I'm sure Sabo will be able to produce a comparable amount of flames as he (currently) seems to be somewhat competent with his DF mastery (creating a fire wall around the Marines he's taken out and in front of Fuji + the VA's. He also seems to be able to coat his Pipe with his flames meaning he has some semblance of control over his DF. I think he was at the very least equal to DD prior to eating the MMnM so he should be capable of stalling or doing some pretty decent damage to an Admiral just adding to all the pressure they're giving one of them. 

If DD isn't attacking Aokiji he could help Marco stall Kizaru just to furthermore make sure the rest of the team (namely Jozu, BB, and Sabo) take down Aokiji and then they can focus on Kizaru afterwards.

All-in-all, I give them low mid at the best and mid high at the worst.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jun 22, 2014)

Yami teach would beat Luffy.


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## Ruse (Jun 22, 2014)

Luffy can't beat Yami Teach, Teach was shrugging off shockwaves, Bisento slashes, fire lances and a quake from WB. Unless Luffy's attacks are more powerful than Sengoku's or WB's he's not beating Teach at least right now.


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## GIORNO (Jun 22, 2014)

Why are you guys even talking about Luffy vs. BB, in this vs. match they're on the same team.


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## Ruse (Jun 22, 2014)

нιѕσкα said:


> Why are you guys even talking about Luffy vs. BB, in this vs. match they're on the same team.



Whrn I saw someone claim Luffy would be a bad matchup for Yami Teach I felt like getting involved.


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## TheWiggian (Jun 22, 2014)

M3 and Sabo maybe even DD guna die in the crossfire.

Then Kizaru and Aokiji Vs Marco, Jozu and Yami Teach could go either way, leaning towards the C2.


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 22, 2014)

ThatBlackGuy said:


> Luffy can't beat Yami Teach, Teach was shrugging off shockwaves, Bisento slashes, fire lances and a quake from WB. Unless Luffy's attacks are more powerful than Sengoku's or WB's he's not beating Teach at least right now.



First of all, the bisento only made a few centimeters of contact with Blackbeard's skin and did not cut him deeply enough for said feat to be deemed as a good feat. Blackbeard was painting heavily and bleeding badly from a pre time skip Luffy's jet pistol so there's absolutely no way he's going to be tanking a time skip Luffy's jet pistol without getting his face broken badly. He has CoO to dodge BB's attacks and his CoA will block any attacks Blackbeard will dish out at Luffy. What a fallacy. How many fallacies are you going to make in your posts? You have to understand he didn't tank those attacks simultaneously and Oda had hopes of keeping Blackbeard alive, thus made him tank those attacks. Teach shrug off shockwaves that even Doc Q, and pre time skip burgess, had no problems tanking. Luffy would most definitely be able to tank the same shockwaves Blackbeard tanked and Luffy's fighting style is a good counter against Blackbeard's overall capability in fighting. His elephant gatling gun will cause more damage than any attacks Blackbeard tanked from anyone because he's going to be getting hit with an attack that was capable of destroying an island sized ship. Luffy's attacks are repetitive consecutive attacks that do a lot of damage that BB's body won't be able to handle. He's simply put, too much for blackbeard to handle.


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## Ruse (Jun 22, 2014)

^^I didn't even bother reading that long ass post


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 22, 2014)

ThatBlackGuy said:


> ^^I didn't even bother reading that long ass post



I did not even bother reading such an infantile remark and a parody of an argument not deserving of anyone's attention... although you did make some great posts in that other thread.


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## Shanks (Jun 24, 2014)

TheWiggian said:


> M3 and Sabo maybe even DD guna die in the crossfire.
> 
> Then Kizaru and Aokiji Vs Marco, Jozu and Yami Teach could go either way, leaning towards the C2.



Was lurking to see if someone made a post like this.


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## Ghost (Jun 24, 2014)

Admirals lose badly.


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## TheWiggian (Jun 24, 2014)

Admiral Aokiji said:


> Was lurking to see if someone made a post like this.



hope ur happy now and can jerk to it ^^


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## hungrytrash (Jun 25, 2014)

Well, today's chapter killed this thread.


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## marco55656 (Jun 26, 2014)

Kizaru and Aokiji Vs M3, Doflamingo, Marco, Jozu, Sabo (mera mera no mi) and yami BB

Sabo might be able to solo aokiji, can definately take him with sanji's help

Marco might be able to solo Kizaru, can definately take him with luffy or zoro's help.

Jozu, doflamingo and yami sit back.

Make this kizaru, aokiji, akainu, fujitora and it's a fight.


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## savior2005 (Jun 26, 2014)

^^uhh noo. aokiji aint losing to sabo, not current sabo at least. sanji as well as zoro and luffy probably dont make a difference due to high haki difference.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Jun 27, 2014)

At this point, Jozu/Marco/Sabo would take the duo with high difficulty. 
Take away Jozu = extreme difficulty (can go both ways)
Add the others = moderate difficulty


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