# Natsu vs Luffy



## howdy01 (Dec 12, 2015)

FDK natsu vs Luffy

IC
50m apart
Current luffy

R1 - G4 restricted
R2 - No restrictions


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## EternalRage (Dec 12, 2015)

Oh, FDK Natsu? Hmm...I think Natsu isn't only stronger but faster in this form...

Rubber melts at 180 degrees...

Natsu vaporizes sand at 2400 degrees... 

I think this is spite towards Luffy? Sabo is a better match?


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## XImpossibruX (Dec 12, 2015)

Fairy Tail being faster then One Piece?

Explain.


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## EternalRage (Dec 12, 2015)

FDK Natsu has mastered Igneel's power which Iwandesu has calced at Mach 1200 for crossing over the continent and destroying bombs.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Dec 12, 2015)

1200 is still bellow OP tho .


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## EternalRage (Dec 12, 2015)

Acnologia is large city (or mountain) based just off feats. Igneel has to beat Acnologia along with the other 5 dragons. IIRC Luffy is City?


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## Mr. Black Leg (Dec 12, 2015)

Mach 1948, I'm not on the mood to search for it, it has been around for a _*very *_long time now .


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## EternalRage (Dec 12, 2015)

Can you at least tell me the feat and name of the calc?


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## Extravlad (Dec 12, 2015)

> Rubber melts at 180 degrees...


Luffy has survived much hotter attacks.


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## Sablés (Dec 12, 2015)

Nutsack has better dc that's for sure


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## Dellinger (Dec 12, 2015)

Gear 4th wrecks any version of Natsu.


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## Imagine (Dec 12, 2015)

EternalRage said:


> Can you at least tell me the feat and name of the calc?


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## Tom Servo (Dec 12, 2015)

Can Luffy even get scaling from an Admiral? I recall Doflamingo's reactions were calced at Mach 600+

Hell I brought up the possibility that it could make him quadruple digits and people laughed....the fuck is this hypocrisy?


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## Imagine (Dec 12, 2015)

Law cut the meteor before Doflamingo did. Luffy kept pace with Doflamingo as well.


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## Tom Servo (Dec 12, 2015)

Imagine said:


> Law cut the meteor before Doflamingo did. Luffy kept pace with Doflamingo as well.



yes I know, But that was only calced at Mach 600+ wasn't it?


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## Blαck (Dec 12, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> yes I know, But that was only calced at Mach 600+ wasn't it?



It was later revised by Taco or GM iirc.


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## Iwandesu (Dec 12, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> yes I know, But that was only calced at Mach 600+ wasn't it?


Well yeah.
Just like the meteor
But then the former got revised to mach 1.9k
And the feat remain the same


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## Tom Servo (Dec 12, 2015)

iwandesu said:


> Well yeah.
> Just like the meteor
> But then the former got revised to mach 1.9k
> And the feat remain the same



Well no the Meteor was in the quadruple digits but Doflamingo only got Mach 600 for reactions (maybe combat speed)


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## shade0180 (Dec 12, 2015)

This one is what we are using.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Dec 12, 2015)

Natsu gets a big rubber fist to the face.


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## EternalRage (Dec 12, 2015)

shade0180 said:


> This one is what we are using.



That's not even close to being accepted lol.


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## Iwandesu (Dec 12, 2015)

Im pretty sure it is way more accepted than the mach 1.2k end of my calc (albeit i do advocate for it given context)


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## Regicide (Dec 12, 2015)

That Tom level delusion


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## Tacocat (Dec 12, 2015)

That calc was accepted well before you were scrolling through our member list trying to find an edgy UN that wasn't already taken.


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## EternalRage (Dec 12, 2015)

Jealous cause of my username? Damn a new level of hate 

Also I had this username on many places before NF .


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## Warlordgab (Dec 12, 2015)

So while Luffy has the speed advantage (thanks to the scaling to the well accepted revision of the meteor calc), Natsu can arguably keep with him in that regard. Still if we keep the PIS/CIS off, Luffy is pretty hard to hit thanks to COO haki

As for striking strenght, Luffy has the upper hand in physical might by using either G2 and G3

As for destructive capability... I'll give it to FDK Natsu, he has a slight advatange over Luffy's 11 megatons

I still Luffy is capable of winning this one  although it will be difficult...

Have we reached a concensus regarding G4 Luffy's DC? Or is still at least 11 megatons?


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## Iwandesu (Dec 12, 2015)

> As for striking strenght, Luffy has the upper hand in physical might by using either G2 and G3


He doesnt 
It was a punch what throughly fucked with a guy well above casual 50mt CSK 
kdm natsu is similar to luffy g4 
It can fuck over with casual city level characters quite easily


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## Warlordgab (Dec 12, 2015)

iwandesu said:


> He doesnt
> It was a punch what throughly fucked with a guy well above casual 50mt CSK
> kdm natsu is similar to luffy g4
> It can fuck over with casual city level characters quite easily



That's something I'd like to ask, when it comes to his exploding punches. How do we measure the striking strenght? Can we say his fist holds the same DC as the explosion?


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## EternalRage (Dec 12, 2015)

Warlordgab said:


> That's something I'd like to ask, when it comes to his exploding punches. How do we measure the striking strenght? Can we say his fist holds the same DC as the explosion?



No, Natsu's physical strength is extremely higher than his fire attacks, physical =/= his powers. Although it is quite a problem since that is still his attack potency. I don't think we've ever had a situation when striking > AP. I think we need to make a new term or remove the term completely.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Dec 13, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> Well no the Meteor was in the quadruple digits but Doflamingo only got Mach 600 for reactions (maybe combat speed)



that was assuming that the meteor was moving at 11km/s or something.
you do the math.
-
naturally, doflamingo should be leagues above the meteor speed given how he out sped those, but some people think that's calc stacking.
imo it isn't, we even have that base nardo dodging frs accepted lol.



> Im pretty sure it is way more accepted than the mach 1.2k end of my calc (albeit i do advocate for it given context)


putting that 5 minute bullshit was a mistake, next time don't listen to shitters like alita.


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## Regicide (Dec 13, 2015)

The value for Naruto versus the FRS was a fraction of the FRS's speed, if I recall, which is why it's considered valid


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## Iwandesu (Dec 13, 2015)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> that was assuming that the meteor was moving at 11km/s or something.
> you do the math.
> -
> naturally, doflamingo should be leagues above the meteor speed given how he out sped those, but some people think that's calc stacking.
> ...


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## ZenithXAbyss (Dec 13, 2015)

Regicide said:


> The value for Naruto versus the FRS was a fraction of the FRS's speed, if I recall, which is why it's considered valid



yeah, but that kind of backward logic reeks of double standard still.
it's literally the same thing.


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## Regicide (Dec 13, 2015)

No, it's not

The whole concern with calc stacking is inflation, whereas getting a fraction of an existing value is going in the opposite direction

As far as I remember, before this, people just assumed that characters got the full value half the time anyways even when they were reacting to something from a distance


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## Iwandesu (Dec 13, 2015)

Exactly 
Are you saying we should upgrade nardo to mach 70 zenath


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## ZenithXAbyss (Dec 13, 2015)

Regicide said:


> No, it's not
> 
> The whole concern with calc stacking is inflation, whereas getting a fraction of an existing value is going in the opposite direction
> 
> *As far as I remember, before this, people just assumed that characters got the full value half the time anyways even when they were reacting to something from a distance*



no, before this people don't get anything they obviously don't scale to.


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## Regicide (Dec 13, 2015)

That's a lie and you know it Zenith


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## MusubiKazesaru (Dec 13, 2015)

Wasn't that EOS travel feat done by Naruto in base? Wouldn't that be given to his powerups as well?


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## ZenithXAbyss (Dec 13, 2015)

it's funny because i'm not.


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## Iwandesu (Dec 13, 2015)

Well yeah 
Base AM but still base i guess 


> it's funny because i'm not.


Nope you pretty much are 
People get scalled to things they cleanly dodged but in a less impressive way all the time.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Dec 13, 2015)

Could anyone else get that?


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## ZenithXAbyss (Dec 13, 2015)

iwandesu said:


> Well yeah
> Base AM but still base i guess
> 
> Nope you pretty much are
> People get scalled to things they cleanly dodged but in a less impressive way all the time.





> Join Date: Dec 2013


you don't know anything.


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## Regicide (Dec 13, 2015)

As if the relevant discussions and threads don't still exist


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## Iwandesu (Dec 13, 2015)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> Could anyone else get that?


Sauce :Maybe 
Kaguya as well  (hell she was crossing likely bigger distances anytime she got into her dimensions)


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## ZenithXAbyss (Dec 13, 2015)

link them and i'll concede.


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## Tom Servo (Dec 13, 2015)

Regicide said:


> That Tom level delusion



What delusion? What are you even referring to?


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## ShadowReaper (Dec 13, 2015)

Luffy wins both scenarios. Superior speed and has enough DC to kill and durability to withstand attacks.


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## Iwandesu (Dec 13, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> What delusion? What are you even referring to?


Your behaviour in general i suppose
You are quite...convict in wathever bs you think is right no matter how much People shot it


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## Tom Servo (Dec 13, 2015)

iwandesu said:


> Your behaviour in general i suppose
> You are quite...convict in *wathever bs you think is right* no matter how much People shot it



Which has never been the case...any and every time someone barks at me aggressively I swat them on the nose with a rolled up newspaper


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## Tacocat (Dec 13, 2015)

EternalRage said:


> Jealous cause of my username? Damn a new level of hate
> 
> Also I had this username on many places before NF .





IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOUR NAME IS.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Dec 13, 2015)

iwandesu said:


> Sauce :Maybe
> Kaguya as well  (hell she was crossing likely bigger distances anytime she got into her dimensions)



So even in base they're god tiers? 

I mean I guess that's not too weird considering the shit Naruto did in just regular sage mode.


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## LazyWaka (Dec 13, 2015)

I don't think EOS base Naruto is really a god tier.

An upper high/low top tier sure, but not a god tier. He has no feats that put him on that level.


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## Tom Servo (Dec 13, 2015)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> So even in base they're god tiers?
> 
> I mean I guess that's not too weird considering the shit Naruto did in just regular sage mode.



Yes, Base Nardo should be above Juubito who only lost his fight due to CIS


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## Nvax (Dec 13, 2015)

*Stop*

Luffy stomps


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## Jag77 (Dec 13, 2015)

LazyWaka said:


> I don't think EOS base Naruto is really a god tier.
> 
> An upper high/low top tier sure, but not a god tier. He has no feats that put him on that level.



Got nuked by his own chakra in base form with 0 chakra in his body and didn't even have a bruise, 

Rasengan which he created for Boruto drilled through the Shinju root, rippled through the ground and parted a giant mass of clouds. 

Top tier+ at least


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## RavenSupreme (Dec 13, 2015)

what about the small island level calc from luffy. isnt this used here?


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## MusubiKazesaru (Dec 13, 2015)

Jag77 said:


> Got nuked by his own chakra in base form with 0 chakra in his body and didn't even have a bruise,
> 
> Rasengan which he created for Boruto drilled through the Shinju root, rippled through the ground and parted a giant mass of clouds.
> 
> Top tier+ at least



I'm talking pre-chapter 700 stuff, but post-powerup from Hagoromo. Not the movies.


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## shade0180 (Dec 13, 2015)

> I'm talking pre-chapter 800



 100 of that chapter don't exist.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Dec 13, 2015)

My bad, 700.


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## Dellinger (Dec 13, 2015)

Stomping Doflamingo who is a near top tier > stomping Zeref


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## ZenithXAbyss (Dec 13, 2015)

White Hawk said:


> Stomping Doflamingo who is a near top tier > stomping Zeref



i don't really know how you got to that conclusion.


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## Sherlōck (Dec 13, 2015)

White Hawk said:


> Stomping Doflamingo who is a near top tier > stomping Zeref



Mingo is nowhere near top tier. He is at best high tier. Same level as Vista.


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## ThatGreekLady (Dec 13, 2015)

They're IC so Luffy will probably ask Natsu to join his crew.


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## LazyWaka (Dec 13, 2015)

Jag77 said:


> Got nuked by his own chakra in base form with 0 chakra in his body and didn't even have a bruise,
> 
> Rasengan which he created for Boruto drilled through the Shinju root, rippled through the ground and parted a giant mass of clouds.
> 
> Top tier+ at least



That first one, while impressive, isn't above top tier.

The second one he infused it with the majority of his BSM chakra, not just base chakra.

Base Naruto, while strong, is no where near god tier.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Dec 13, 2015)

All he needs is SM.


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## Sablés (Dec 13, 2015)

Sherlōck said:


> Mingo is nowhere near top tier. He is at best high tier. Same level as Vista.



I didn't know Vista was stronger than Jozu. Will remember


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## Iwandesu (Dec 13, 2015)

LazyWaka said:


> I don't think EOS base Naruto is really a god tier.
> 
> An upper high/low top tier sure, but not a god tier. He has no feats that put him on that level.


Base ashura mode nardo is definitely a god tier
He kicked juudara gudoudama like nothing didnt He ?
Btw anyone Who claims taking 30 minutes to not beat a hurt City level char is above nigh Killing one with a single punch is retarded


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## LazyWaka (Dec 13, 2015)

iwandesu said:


> Base ashura mode nardo is definitely a god tier
> He kicked juudara gudoudama like nothing didnt He ?
> Btw anyone Who claims taking 30 minutes to not beat a hurt City level char is above nigh Killing one with a single punch is retarded



What? There is nothing "base" about that though. He's using Kyuubi chakra and SPSM at that point, just less of it than he is later.

That's like referring to regular SM as "base sage mode". Its just redundant.


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## EternalRage (Dec 13, 2015)

1. I don't know how Luffy will hurt Natsu with Natsu's superior durability...
2. I don't know how Natsu will catch up to Luffy with Luffy's superior speed...

If in OP Verse: Luffy literally recruits Natsu
If in FT Verse: Natsu uses friendship power and stomps.


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## Jag77 (Dec 13, 2015)

OBD wiki has base Naruto at Small country level and Massively Hypersonic+ 

Plus wasn't he pinned down by Red Oni Momoshiki's black receivers? I thought it was just his current base chakra


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## Jag77 (Dec 13, 2015)

EternalRage said:


> 1. I don't know how Luffy will hurt Natsu with Natsu's superior durability...
> 2. I don't know how Natsu will catch up to Luffy with Luffy's superior speed...
> 
> If in OP Verse: Luffy literally recruits Natsu
> If in FT Verse: Natsu uses friendship power and stomps.



"Natsu's superior durability" What. 

Luffy doesn't recruit cancer's, the moment Natsu gets motion sickness then talks about being a hero he gets a Jet Pistol to the face.


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## Iwandesu (Dec 13, 2015)

The natsu being used does have slughtly  superior dura and dc on casual basis


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## Jag77 (Dec 13, 2015)

What about the Fierce Tiger?


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## Iwandesu (Dec 13, 2015)

Jag77 said:


> OBD wiki has base Naruto at Small country level and Massively Hypersonic+


So really
Why is supersayaman still a member ?
Either you assume He was in base when He did The juudara feat (Just checked He wasnt) and give him god tier stats or you realise base nardo best scalling is City level+ shenanigans from sauce 
Why would anyone in their right mimd put nardo in small country level in base


> Plus wasn't he pinned down by Red Oni Momoshiki's black receivers? I thought it was just his current base chakra


How relevant is this ?
Also fierce tiger shenanigans is irrelevant against actual attacks (He isnt losing to natsu punches,Tho)


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## Hamaru (Dec 13, 2015)

Lol, base Naruto.


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## shade0180 (Dec 13, 2015)

> Why is supersayaman still a member ?



I've been asking that since wiki was relocated...


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## LazyWaka (Dec 13, 2015)

I tried to join to edit some things but apparently I wasn't let in.


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## EternalRage (Dec 13, 2015)

Fierce Tiger was blunt force, he only has that durability against those types of attacks.

In this version being used, Natsu has higher durability and destructive capacity by a large margin. Not only did he nigh-oneshot Zeref who can compete with Acnologia, but he took a damn beating from Zeref. Acnologia is easily a mountain buster because he's > Motherglare who's roar was calced at gigatons by Tacocat . Luffy's 11 MT can't be compared to Natsu's destructive capacity in this mode.

Luffy Advantages: Higher speed, can not be burnt by Natsu as he has survived hotter attacks.

Natsu Advantages: Higher durability, higher destructive capacity.

This match is easily inconclusive lol, unless it's disproven that Luffy's withstood hotter attacks. Akainu's magma is only 1300 degrees Celsius while Natsu's is 2400, idk.


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## Piecesis (Dec 13, 2015)

So waka wasn't let in but supersaiya was, isn't this all backwards?


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## LazyWaka (Dec 13, 2015)

It's like you're just hunting through old fairy tail blogs looking for big numbers.


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## God Movement (Dec 13, 2015)

luffy ends his life


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## shade0180 (Dec 13, 2015)

LazyWaka said:


> I tried to join to edit some things but apparently I wasn't let in.



 dunno why you weren't allowed but SSM is allowed back in...


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## howdy01 (Dec 13, 2015)

so what's the consensus?
I just made this to see what these two were currently at...


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## LazyWaka (Dec 13, 2015)

If what Iwan said about FDK Natsu is true, than Natsu should take this.


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## God Movement (Dec 13, 2015)

what can natsu do to luffy exactly


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## howdy01 (Dec 13, 2015)

LazyWaka said:


> If what Iwan said about FDK Natsu is true, than Natsu should take this.



So I'm guessing natsu gets scaled to igneel for having the "last of igneel's power"?
Or was it based on zeref being a threat to acno?


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## LazyWaka (Dec 13, 2015)

If Natsu's sitting at city level+ (50 megatons or so) like Iwan says than a lot actually. Outside of blunt force Luffy's durability is sitting at the 11+ megatons range (unless something happaned to change that.)


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## EternalRage (Dec 13, 2015)

If anyone is wondering, Natsu is 50 MT because CSK had lost to Mard Geer, CSK destroying Cube was calced at 50 MT, and Natsu beat Mard Geer.


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## God Movement (Dec 13, 2015)

Is this normal Natsu or FDK Natsu


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## EternalRage (Dec 13, 2015)

LazyWaka said:


> It's like you're just hunting through old fairy tail blogs looking for big numbers.



Just because I'm a "FT Wanker" doesn't mean every time I post a blog relating to FT with a high number it's bragging. Did you even bother to read my entire post lol?



God Movement said:


> Is this normal Natsu or FDK Natsu



FDK Natsu.


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## Iwandesu (Dec 13, 2015)

EternalRage said:


> If anyone is wondering, Natsu is 50 MT because CSK had lost to Mard Geer, CSK destroying Cube was calced at 50 MT, and Natsu beat Mard Geer.


Not exactly
But yeah you can argue acn is above natsu albeit statements would lead to some kind of equality between them but like hell The Guy Who was kinda troubled with zeref minion is casually above him
Also waka i can give you thousands of vouches if you want because you not being let against ssm is utter bull


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## Regicide (Dec 13, 2015)

What the fuck, Waka's not even on the wiki?


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## Imagine (Dec 13, 2015)

Waka ain't shit


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## EternalRage (Dec 13, 2015)

This thread is being spammed


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## Jag77 (Dec 13, 2015)

iwandesu said:


> So really
> Why is supersayaman still a member ?
> Either you assume He was in base when He did The juudara feat (Just checked He wasnt) and give him god tier stats or you realise base nardo best scalling is City level+ shenanigans from sauce
> Why would anyone in their right mimd put nardo in small country level in base
> ...



Is it okay if I request the durability feat of base Naruto technically shrugging off his own nuke with no chakra then? 

And nah I didn't mean the Gudou Dama kick, I knew Naruto was in Six paths Sage Mode minus the bijuu cloak


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## Iwandesu (Dec 13, 2015)

Jag77 said:


> Is it okay if I request the durability feat of base Naruto technically shrugging off his own nuke with no chakra then?
> 
> And nah I didn't mean the Gudou Dama kick, I knew Naruto was in Six paths Sage Mode minus the bijuu cloak


Which nuke base nardo even has ?


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## Jag77 (Dec 13, 2015)

When Toneri ripped out his chakra in The Last and nuked him with it on the moon and plunged a deep hole into it


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## Alita (Dec 13, 2015)

EOS base naruto is only sitting at small island level based off sasuke's meteor busting feat so he's only upper high tier imo. His speed imo can be scaled to top tiers and above along with some high tiers imo.


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## Iwandesu (Dec 13, 2015)

Sauce meteor feat is just City level +


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## Alita (Dec 13, 2015)

iwandesu said:


> Sauce meteor feat is just City level +


There was an update in comments that put it at small island based on the new escape velocity for the new planet size waka got.


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## Shining Force (Dec 13, 2015)

Sorry for being off-topic, but there are only two to three legitimate god-tiers, not including Boruto the Movie characters. The others are arguably more like top-tiers.
Kaguya, Prime RS and possibly Prime Hamura are small planet to planet lvl god-tiers.
VotE Sauce, Naruto, Three-Eyed Madara and Byakugan-stuffed Toneri are arguable and unless they get dying RS's scaling, they are just moon-level top-tiers.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Dec 13, 2015)

Naruto god tier is way too big, we have continent level, moon level, higher moon level, small planet, and planet level. The continent level characters should be dropped down to top tier.


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## EternalRage (Dec 13, 2015)

Why the hell is this about Naruto?


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## ZenithXAbyss (Dec 13, 2015)

> There was an update in comments that put it at small island based on the new escape velocity for the new planet size waka got.



i don't think you know what escape velocity means.


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## Iwandesu (Dec 13, 2015)

Im also not sure why escape velocity matters to what kind of speed meteors get into our atmosphere 
But i may be just missing something


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## Hamaru (Dec 13, 2015)

Base Naruto isn't Base Sasuke's equal. Whenever Naruto was in a serious fight, he always relied on transformations, while Sasuke was shown to be a good fighter in base. Granted, when they both go all out, Naruto's strongest form is leagues above Sasuke's.


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## Iwandesu (Dec 13, 2015)

Base nardo easily matched base sauce chidori 
You are forgetting how sauce himself always relies on either cursed seal or Susanno


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## shade0180 (Dec 13, 2015)

> You are forgetting how sauce himself always relies on either cursed seal or Susanno



Or some random power up he got from a passerby, i.e. Hashirama, Kabuto, Juugo, etc...


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## MusubiKazesaru (Dec 13, 2015)

Or just bullshit (Deidara)


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## Dr. White (Dec 14, 2015)

Hebi sauce vs wind arc Naruto ends in slaughter for the Uchiha. Sauce straight up  blitzed him and then solo'd his squad. FRS isn't making up for that.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Dec 14, 2015)

nardo completely left sauce behind once he learn sm.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Dec 14, 2015)

^Pretty much. His upgrades were pretty much a step ahead by that point.


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## DarkTorrent (Dec 14, 2015)

why are you guys still talking about Nardo?


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## FrozenFeathers (Dec 14, 2015)

Natsu wins, he like melted a stadium without even using a powered up attack.
And he busted that stone statue thing with base attacks., those equal Luffy's G2 and G3 attacks.
So Natsu is much stronger in Igneel mode and he gets Igneel's attack scaling from Igneel's fight with Acno.


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## Warlordgab (Dec 14, 2015)

^ those feats are not even impressive when compared to Luffy's

The reasons why he wins this now are Natsu having enough speed to not to get blitzed and superior destructive power in FDK mode


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## FrozenFeathers (Dec 14, 2015)

Those are impressive because they are BASE feats.

Igneel/FDK mode is a massive boost.


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## Hamaru (Dec 14, 2015)

iwandesu said:


> Base nardo easily matched base sauce chidori
> You are forgetting how sauce himself always relies on either cursed seal or Susanno



Are you talking about the rooftop fight???

Also, I'm referring to Part 2 in the manga. Base Naruto has never done anything that would make him base Sasuke's equal in the second half. He hardly ever, if ever, fights in base. Therefore saying he is Base Sasuke's equal makes no sense.


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## Iwandesu (Dec 14, 2015)

Wot? 
In kage summit they outright admitted themselves as equals in base  
They even matched chidori and rasengan and ended in a tie iirc


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## LazyWaka (Dec 14, 2015)

His rasangan always matched Sasukes chidori in part 2 as well. Sasuke may have been overall stronger for a time but their rasengan and chidori being on par with one another was always a constant even up to their final fight.



> Why the hell is this about Naruto?



I was about to make a witty comment about how Naruto would have been a more interesting match against Luffy, but then I remembered that base Naruto could beat the both of them.


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## Kaaant (Dec 14, 2015)

Speed wise they're comparable.


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## Hamaru (Dec 14, 2015)

I need to re-read the Kage-summit encounter. I'm pretty sure Sasuke fought his ass off before encountering Naruto...then again, my time-line might be messed up.


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## LazyWaka (Dec 14, 2015)

Nah, sasuke was pretty exhausted by the time Naruto showed up. But his chidori wasn't suggested to be any weaker.


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## Iwandesu (Dec 14, 2015)

Sasuke has already showed that his chidori doesnt get weaker nomatter how little chakra he still has even on gaara fight back in part 1
Of course this is assuming he has enough chakra to perform chidori which he clearly had in kage summit


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## Hamaru (Dec 14, 2015)

There may be a base amount of energy needed to create the chidori; however, I do recall speed also playing a key-role in it's power, and speed does play a role in the amount of force behind the attack. If Sasuke is exhausted, then he wouldn't be able to use the amount of speed needed to maximize chidori's attack power...kinda like a half-ass swing of a base-ball bat. Even though the bat is just as strong, it will produce much more damage when swung at full speed.


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## shade0180 (Dec 14, 2015)

Dunno about speed playing a role in its attack.. 

The only thing I recall about the speed is... it gives you tunnel vision which is why you need a sharingan to use it..


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## Hamaru (Dec 14, 2015)

I'm going to look it up when I have some more time...damn, it feels odd to be talking about Naruto again for some reason, lol.


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## Hao Asakura (Dec 14, 2015)

Luffy wins due to greater speed as far as im aware.He should also be stronger


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## LazyWaka (Dec 14, 2015)

Luffy has superior speed, but Natsu has every other advantage.


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## Swoldier (Dec 15, 2015)

Natsu turns Luffy into a cream


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## EternalRage (Dec 15, 2015)

Hao Asakura said:


> Luffy wins due to greater speed as far as im aware.He should also be stronger



*facepalm*, Like nearly 50% of everyone said Natsu wins, and Natsu also has an advantage in everything besides speed. An AOE attack = RIP Luffy, stop making uneducated guesses in threads.


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## RavenSupreme (Dec 15, 2015)

luffy takes it


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## EternalRage (Dec 15, 2015)

I'm dead


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## Totally not a cat (Dec 15, 2015)

EternalRage said:


> *facepalm*, Like nearly 50% of everyone said Natsu wins, and Natsu also has an advantage in everything besides speed. An AOE attack = RIP Luffy, stop making uneducated guesses in threads.



Well, nearly 50% of everyone thinking natsu wins means over 50% thinks otherwise but


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## Revan Reborn (Dec 15, 2015)

EternalRage said:


> *facepalm*, Like nearly 50% of everyone said Natsu wins, and Natsu also has an advantage in everything besides speed. An AOE attack = RIP Luffy, *stop making uneducated guesses in threads*.



lol, hypocrite.


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## Hao Asakura (Dec 15, 2015)

EternalRage said:


> *facepalm*, Like nearly 50% of everyone said Natsu wins, and Natsu also has an advantage in everything besides speed. An AOE attack = RIP Luffy, stop making uneducated guesses in threads.



>50% of everyone said natsu wins 

Um what exacty was that supossed to prove?....
Also assuming luffy is inferior to Natsu in power it wouldnt be by much so it wouldnt matter you cant win when you cant even land a blow on your opponent and Natsu has zero hax to counter.


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## EternalRage (Dec 15, 2015)

Hao Asakura said:


> >50% of everyone said natsu wins
> 
> Um what exacty was that supossed to prove?....
> Also assuming luffy is inferior to Natsu in power it wouldnt be by much so it wouldnt matter you cant win when you cant even land a blow on your opponent and Natsu has zero hax to counter.



You also cant win if you cant hurt your opponent.


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## Hao Asakura (Dec 15, 2015)

EternalRage said:


> You also cant win if you cant hurt your opponent.



-Accumulated damage

 Natsu"s durability might be slightly higher than what luffy can dish out but Luffys attacks won't be shrugged off they will damage him he just needs to repeatedly attack him and given his greater speed he should be able to do so without needing to worry about pink hair landing a blow.That and his precog should aid him perceive Natsu"s movements and dodge them accordingly as well.


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## EternalRage (Dec 15, 2015)

Hao Asakura said:


> -Accumulated damage
> 
> Natsu"s durability might be slightly higher than what luffy can dish out but Luffys attacks won't be shrugged off they will damage him he just needs to repeatedly attack him and given his greater speed he should be able to do so without needing to worry about pink hair landing a blow.That and his precog should aid him perceive Natsu"s movements and dodge them accordingly as well.



Accumulated damage? Luffy's DC is 11 megatons in, while Natsu in this mode is at least 1 gigaton, Stop, Natsu can shrug off Luffy's attacks on will, especially since Natsu's body heat evaporated sand, rubber wont be much trouble. Luffy's best resistance is magma which is at 1300 degrees at MOST. And again, AOE attacks. Haki wont help evade explosions at point blank range.


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## Iwandesu (Dec 15, 2015)

> 1 gigaton


wot ?
natsu dc is like 50 mt
80 at best
brandish shenanigans aren't supposed to be escalled until someone survives it
because it is very specifically because of her ability
although saying luffy can dodge everything he throws is utter bs because their speed difference is barely 50% of advantage
a proper AOE attack is the only thing natsu need to one shot luffy given how casually he would one shot guys who are casual in 50 mt like csk


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## Hao Asakura (Dec 15, 2015)

EternalRage said:


> Accumulated damage? Luffy's DC is 11 megatons in, while Natsu in this mode is at least 1 gigaton, Stop, Natsu can shrug off Luffy's attacks on will, especially since Natsu's body heat evaporated sand, rubber wont be much trouble. Luffy's best resistance is magma which is at 1300 degrees at MOST. And again, AOE attacks. Haki wont help evade explosions at point blank range.



>11 Megatons 
Referring to a casual slash by Zoro im assuming.....if so was that supossed to prove anything?..

Also link to the Natsu calc you're referring to?
And Enel's attacks are much hotter than anything Natsu can throw at Luffy btw hope you realized that.


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## Dellinger (Dec 15, 2015)

Just wait for Luffy to start wrecking guys like Jack.


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## Iwandesu (Dec 15, 2015)

Natsu gets scalled to a non serious  
And possible to acnologia busting tenrou 
Before someone asks actual result is not the one in op


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## EternalRage (Dec 15, 2015)

Hao Asakura said:


> >11 Megatons
> Referring to a casual slash by Zoro im assuming.....if so was that supossed to prove anything?..
> 
> Also link to the Natsu calc you're referring to?
> And Enel's attacks are much hotter than anything Natsu can throw at Luffy btw hope you realized that.



You're clueless about what's recently been happening in FT. Iwandesu already listed all the reasons why Natsu wins along with LazyWaka. I don't need to explain anymore. Also the 11MT feat is not casual wtf are you talking about ... Also, Enel's lightning =\= real lightning considering it never burnt shit and no one got MHS because of Enel.


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## Hao Asakura (Dec 15, 2015)

EternalRage said:


> You're clueless about what's recently been happening in FT. Iwandesu already listed all the reasons why Natsu wins along with LazyWaka. I don't need to explain anymore. Also the 11MT feat is not casual wtf are you talking about ... Also, Enel's lightning =\= real lightning considering it never burnt shit and no one got MHS because of Enel.



Because the series turned to shit I stopped following it like likely many others.But anyways yes Enel"s lightning is real lightning the characters not getting scaled to it is obviously because they were outliers don't grasp.And yes the zoro feat was casual Pica returns fine and proceeds to come at zoro at his best and gets one shot then and there afterwards.


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## Hamaru (Dec 15, 2015)

LazyWaka said:


> Luffy has superior speed, but Natsu has every other advantage.



The 2012 OBD would have never seen this coming.


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## Iwandesu (Dec 15, 2015)

Hamaru said:


> The 2012 OBD would have never seen this coming.


Thats okay
It is still Just a one time powerup
I mean hell Back in 2012 tenrou LFD natsu was already stronger than luffy wasnt him ?
Only with elephant gun He finally passed that one time powerup


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## Visa (Dec 15, 2015)

Hamaru said:


> The 2012 OBD would have never seen this coming.



Because Luffy doesn't get power-up freebies whenever he can't beat who he wants and just gets stronger as well as finding more creative ways to exploit his powers. 
Natsu may win for now, but it won't be for long.


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## Iwandesu (Dec 15, 2015)

current natsu already loses guys
only the specific onetime powerup from 2 weeks ago can win this match 
albeit this is what op especified


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## Hamaru (Dec 15, 2015)

Aren't random power-ups a common thing in FT? That is partly why it was hard for me to stay with the manga; even thought there are a few really cool people that I liked.


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## LazyWaka (Dec 16, 2015)

Visa said:


> Because Luffy doesn't get power-up freebies whenever he can't beat who he wants and just gets stronger as well as finding more creative ways to exploit his powers.
> Natsu may win for now, but it won't be for long.



Nightmare Luffy was a thing.


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## Iwandesu (Dec 16, 2015)

Hamaru said:


> Aren't random power-ups a common thing in FT? That is partly why it was hard for me to stay with the manga; even thought there are a few really cool people that I liked.


In order from the top of my mind
>etherion empowered DF natsu has a mcb feat on the tower of heaven 
>jellal empowered DF natsu faces zero small town attacks 
>Laxus empowered LFD natsu has a small city feat 
>friendship empowered ft main team bitchslappes Hades and his demons army
>friendiship empowered DF natsu bitchslappes casual small city+ mard geer 
>ignnel empowered DKM natsu bitchslaps a casual city level and mhs zeref 
Thats just the mc...
So yeah pretty much


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## Dr. White (Dec 16, 2015)

You forgot Natsu soloing the black and white dragon brothers.


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## LazyWaka (Dec 16, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> You forgot Natsu soloing the black and white dragon brothers.



yeah, but that had more to do with those two being overhyped garbage.


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## Dr. White (Dec 16, 2015)

LazyWaka said:


> yeah, but that had more to do with those two being overhyped garbage.



Isn't everyone in FT


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## Reyes (Dec 16, 2015)

iwandesu said:


> In order from the top of my mind
> >etherion empowered DF natsu has a mcb feat on the tower of heaven
> >jellal empowered DF natsu faces zero small town attacks
> >Laxus empowered LFD natsu has a small city feat
> ...



don't forget second origin he and other got because fuck actual training and hard work lets just get a power up from a spirit cause we went to a party when we should have trained.


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## Blαck (Dec 16, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> Isn't everyone in FT



Good point


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## EternalRage (Dec 16, 2015)

There hasn't been any bullshit this arc except for Brandish being captured, and it looks like a completely new manga. I doubt FT will still have shit writing after all the hate .


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## Jag77 (Dec 16, 2015)

Or Brandish is just a shitty glass cannon.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Dec 16, 2015)

iwandesu said:


> wot ?
> natsu dc is like 50 mt
> 80 at best
> *brandish shenanigans aren't supposed to be escalled until someone survives it*
> ...



not sure.
ac should, because he is god tier.


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## LazyWaka (Dec 16, 2015)

Reyes said:


> don't forget second origin he and other got because fuck actual training and hard work lets just get a power up from a spirit cause we went to a party when we should have trained.



Did any of them besides Erza even utilize second origin? Erza showed it had to be activated and wasn't a passive power up.



> not sure.
> ac should, because he is god tier



Why would we assume that? We don't just tack on arbitrary durability stats just because. Someone actually has to tank it in order for powerscaling to work.

We don't just arbitrarily assume that Kaguya can tank small planet level attacks just because the idea of Hagoromo one shotting her doesn't seem right.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Dec 16, 2015)

LazyWaka said:
			
		

> Why would we assume that? We don't just tack on arbitrary durability stats just because. Someone actually has to tank it in order for powerscaling to work.
> 
> We don't just arbitrarily assume that Kaguya can tank small planet level attacks just because the idea of Hagoromo one shotting her doesn't seem right.



I meant either attack or durability.


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## Iwandesu (Dec 17, 2015)

Attack is a no go because The island level stuff has absolutely nothing to do with brandy powerlevel
Chick is goat but for all we know she is a fooder dc/dura wise outside of her top tier ability
I mean The fuck cana oneshotted her 
I would argue for dura as well but again maybe she Just never thought about using her Power this offensive Way before
Maybe her aim in The spriggan is just to do what she does by even name
Wreck countries with her Mass manipulation and try to shrink ac when The time comes


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## Extravlad (Dec 17, 2015)

FT is one of the most inconsistent verse that there is, what's there to debate really?

Zeref goes from getting K.O'd by preskip Ultear to tanking severals blows for a Natsu that is a million of times more powerful than that chick.

And he didn't a power-up or anything like that, the fact that he wasn't trying vs Ultear doesn't matter either since we're talking about durability.


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## Iwandesu (Dec 17, 2015)

It actually matters when The zeref who got koed by ultear was not hurt at all
Hell he was Just playing The weak boy because didnt want to kill her passively by starting to give a crap about her


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## Extravlad (Dec 17, 2015)

Yea but he still got K.O'd by her, he was unconscious at the end of the battle doubt he could fake out that.


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## metabro (Dec 17, 2015)

Wasn't the King Punch calced at 50 megatons?  And didn't scrubs like Blue Gilly survive it?


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## Visa (Dec 17, 2015)

metabro said:


> Wasn't the King Punch calced at 50 megatons?  And didn't scrubs like Blue Gilly survive it?



They didn't tank it, that's the difference.


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## Iwandesu (Dec 17, 2015)

I just came here to say 
Lolbrandy


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## metabro (Dec 17, 2015)

Visa said:


> They didn't tank it, that's the difference.



You're right, but they were up and made into slave labor not too long after, then spent most of the day fighting Flamingo goons.  I would think Luffy would fare far better than these guys did


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## Matta Clatta (Dec 17, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> FT is one of the most inconsistent verse that there is, what's there to debate really?
> 
> Zeref goes from getting K.O'd by preskip Ultear to tanking severals blows for a Natsu that is a million of times more powerful than that chick.
> 
> And he didn't a power-up or anything like that, the fact that he wasn't trying vs Ultear doesn't matter either since we're talking about durability.



He fought Ultear in his sleeping state where he is at his weakest. When Zeref cares about people he can't control his magic properly and is weak but when he doesn't he is able to use his full power.

So yes he did have sort of a power up post skip


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