# Sakura's Punch vs...[689 Spoilers]



## Kyu (Aug 20, 2014)

So apparently Sakura knocked off a horn of Nardoverse's God.

At full power, how much damage can a single punch of hers deal to the following:

*0)* Neji's _Rotation_(mid-spin)

*1)* Orochimaru

*2)* Itachi's Complete _Susano'o_

*3)* Sandaime Raikage

*4)* Sasuke's PS

*5)* 50% Kurama

*6)* Naruto's Biju Mode Fox Avatar

*7)* Madara's PS

*8)* Jubito (No _Gudōdama_ to defend)

*9)* The Shinju Tree

*Bonus Scenario*

Sakura's strongest punch and Night Gai collides head on. What happens?


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## ueharakk (Aug 20, 2014)

I honestly don't see how that feat puts her above her previously displayed feats.


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## Jad (Aug 20, 2014)

ueharakk said:


> I honestly don't see how that feat puts her above her previously displayed feats.



Her feat puts her on the same level as Kakashi and Obito walking within the gravity field when Naruto and Sasuke rikudou mode couldn't. Am I wrong  ?


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## Hachibi (Aug 20, 2014)

Jad said:


> Her feat puts her on the same level as Kakashi and Obito walking within the gravity field when Naruto and Sasuke rikudou mode couldn't. Am I wrong  ?



So retarded plot-tier?


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## ueharakk (Aug 20, 2014)

Jad said:


> Her feat puts her on the same level as Kakashi and Obito walking within the gravity field when Naruto and Sasuke rikudou mode couldn't. Am I wrong  ?



IMO the strength feat isn't out of this world inconsistent.  The shockwave from 8th Gated Gai's EE broke madara's horn off, and Madara actually blocked that attack with his arms and onmyouton staff.

JJ Madara could also casually rip off a bigger chunk of that stuff off of his face.  

Then there's the fact that the force of the punch barely even moved kaguya.  Compare that to *RSM Naruto punching kaguya away with one of his casual punches.*

A direct hit from Sakura breaking that off doesn't seem farfetched to me when we've seen how ridiculously powerful her punches are.


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## Turrin (Aug 20, 2014)

Sakura's punch did as much damage to Kaguya as Evening Elephant Issoku did to Juubidara. Juubidara may have hat more of his guard up, but Juubidara's strength pales in comparison to Kaguya's. He hadn't even absorbed the tree at the time. Kaguya was much stronger than full-power Juubidara and that was before she absorbed the massive amount of chakra from the shinobi bound by the world tree this chapter, enhancing her strength dramatically. So at the very minimum Sakura's striking force is equivalent to EE Issoku, and that's w/o using Byakugo-Seal chakra to pump even higher chakra volumes into Okasho. Sakura's all out punch would blow through all these defenses with the only questionable ones being the P-Susano'o and Bijuu Avatars. Juubito would also survive it, but with massive damage.


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## Ghost (Aug 20, 2014)

People these days.


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## Turrin (Aug 20, 2014)

Jad said:


> Her feat puts her on the same level as Kakashi and Obito walking within the gravity field when Naruto and Sasuke rikudou mode couldn't. Am I wrong  ?



So a tier that makes total sense if people bothered to read the chapter. Kaguya adjusted the gravity making certain areas less effected than others. Obito and Kakashi ran in those areas.

As for Sakura you can't claim plot inconsistency when Sakura strength limits have never been seen before. All we got prior to this is Sakura generating one of the largest shockwaves from a physical strike on panel, and than Hashirama saying she might be worse than Tsunade, leaving the door open for her showing striking feats more impressive than Tsunade. We see said striking feat this chapter, and now suddenly it's an inconsistency,


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## SSMG (Aug 20, 2014)

Her punch is stil weaker than bijuu powered rsm naruto or 8th gate guy.

this current sakura punch did not create a pressurized air canon from her fist nor did she tunnel kaguya miles into the earth like guy did to madara.

she didnt send kaguya flying nearly as far as the 5th tail powering up rsm naruto sent her.

i know sasuke and naruto were there to catch kaguya for sakuras hit.. but if she was hitting as hard as these other two feats kaguya would have slammed into naruto and sasuke...not just stop at their hands..

so i put her as the third stongest hitter in the series.


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## Godaime Tsunade (Aug 20, 2014)

How durable is Kaguya's horn? That is fairly crucial in estimating the strength behind her blow.

With what strength feats she has thus far: 



Kyu said:


> *0)* Neji's _Rotation_(mid-spin)



She blasts right through it. She takes heavy damage in the process, but Byakugou restores her while Neji dies. Alternatively she could punch the ground and knock Neji off his feet while he's spinning rapidly. He could severely injure himself from the blast alone.



> *1)* Orochimaru



Severely wounds him to the point that he has to exhaust considerable amounts of chakra in order to recover. A follow up blow could very well knock him out, if not kill him.



> *2)* Itachi's Complete _Susano'o_



It all depends on how great Tsunade's strength is relative to Sakura's. Sakura's chakra enhanced strength has a greater feat than Tsunade's regarding the collateral damage it can inflict to the ground. However, Tsunade may be able to replicate that feat. If that is true, then Sakura's punch would only put a small dent in Itachi's Complete Susano'o. If Sakura's strength is actually greater than Tsunade's, then she could probably smash through the Susano'o in 4 or 5 hits.



> *3)* Sandaime Raikage



She inflicts some damage, but not enough to slow him down or affect his physical performance in any way.



> *4)* Sasuke's PS



At best, she makes a dent. She would need a dozen or so blows to smash through PS, with what feats she possesses so far.



> *5)* 50% Kurama



No, the amounts of hits needed to knock out Kurama are practically immeasurable. She could kill it eventually with Byakugou chakra to sustain her punches, but she'd die long before that happened.



> *6)* Naruto's Biju Mode Fox Avatar



Doesn't that regenerate constantly? Sakura can't punch through that, though if she hit Naruto through the shroud he would still sustain some damage.



> *7)* Madara's PS



Just as with Sasuke's PS, it would take at least a dozen blows to smash open his defense.



> *8)* Jubito (No _Gudōdama_ to defend)



She would inflict noticeable damage, but not enough to kill him. He would just regenerate afterwards anyway,



> *9)* The Shinju Tree



The Shinju tree wasn't particularly durable, just very large. Sakura's punch would blow a large hole in it but not outright destroy it.



> *Bonus Scenario*
> 
> Sakura's strongest punch and Night Gai collides head on. What happens?



Sakura dies a bloody death ​​


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## Turrin (Aug 20, 2014)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> How durable is Kaguya's horn? That is fairly crucial in estimating the strength behind her blow.​



There are several good estimates.

Gai's EE Issoku did a similar amount of damage to pre-tree absorption Juubidara, whose much weaker than Current-Kaguya. 

God-Mode Naruto's punch did not destroy Kaguya's horn:
Shinsusenju isn't even close in size.

Even the force of God-Mode Naruto's punch when powered up by Gobi did not do that level of damage to Kaguya

And let's also not forget Juubito tanking Tandem Explosive Tags w/o a scratch​


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## Hachibi (Aug 20, 2014)

Turrin said:


> There are several good estimates.
> 
> Gai's EE Issoku did a similar amount of damage to pre-tree absorption Juubidara, whose much weaker than Current-Kaguya.
> 
> ...



So basically Sakura > Gobi-powered Rikudo Senjutsu Naruto physically?


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## trance (Aug 20, 2014)

Oneshots up to Sauce's PS, where she would likely need at least a few blows to break through it. Same with Madara's PS. She causes damage to the rest but doesn't destroy them.



> Sakura's strongest punch and Night Gai collides head on. What happens?



Sakura loses her arm.


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## Turrin (Aug 20, 2014)

Hachibi said:


> So basically Sakura > Gobi-powered Rikudo Senjutsu physically?


Basically this is the case.


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## Rocky (Aug 20, 2014)

Turrin said:


> There are several good estimates.
> 
> Gai's EE Issoku did a similar amount of damage to pre-tree absorption Juubidara, whose much weaker than Current-Kaguya.
> 
> ...



Naruto did not punch Kaguya in the horn though. 

A Madara clone was able to casually block Sakura's punch, while blocking Gai's resulted in him getting buried a mile underground.


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## Hachibi (Aug 20, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Basically this is the case.



Naruto never tried to hit the horn, that doesn't mean that Sakura > Him.

And Juudara is physically superior to Kaguya as far as feat goes.


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## Jagger (Aug 20, 2014)

Turrin said:


> There are several good estimates.
> 
> Gai's EE Issoku did a similar amount of damage to pre-tree absorption Juubidara, whose much weaker than Current-Kaguya.
> 
> ...


Let's not forget all of those attacks were all directed to the opponent's body and not solely focused on their head just like Sakura did.


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## -JT- (Aug 20, 2014)

I hate to be 'that guy', and I do actually like Sakura to a reasonable degree before someone claims otherwise, but I really think that this feat was very shoddy and inconsistent writing on Kishimoto's part.
Either that, or Kaguya's hype far, far outclasses what she can actually do and her horns aren't ridiculously durable anyway. In which case, this feat is nothing compared to what Sakura did against the Juubilings.


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## Turrin (Aug 20, 2014)

Rocky said:


> Naruto did not punch Kaguya in the horn though.


The force of Naruto's Gobi Blow sent her flying head first into a rock cliff. That means he head was indeed hit with the force of that blow. In the other instance Naruto punched her right in the head as well. 



> A Madara clone was able to casually block Sakura's punch,


The Madara clones aren't normal clones. They were tossing Bijuu around, even before Madara became the Juubi Jinchuuriki. After becoming the JuubiJinchuuriki they tossed God-Mode Naruto around like nothing. And never once did we ever see them effected by any damage. So that is a moot point.



> while blocking Gai's resulted in him getting buried a mile underground.


Madara didn't block Gai's attack with a Rinbo Clone, so again a moot point.




Hachibi said:


> And Juudara is physically superior to Kaguya as far as feat goes.


No he's not. Juubidara was getting his ass beat by God-Mode Naruto w/o Naruto even using his Kyuubi-Chakra-Shroud, while Kaguya was casually tanking Gode-Mode Naruto's hits w/ Kyuubi-Chakra-Shroud (and later Gobi's power up), and that was before her strength increased dramatically after absorbing that massive quantity of chakra this chapter. So let's stop with the delusions shall we



Jagger said:


> Let's not forget all of those attacks were all directed to the opponent's body and not solely focused on their head just like Sakura did.


Gode-Mode Naruto's attack was a punch to the head
Gode Mode-Gobi Naruto's attack sent her flying head first into a cliff
Sasuke's P-Susano'o strike was direct at her head
Gai's Issoku was directed at Madara from above and hit his head as well as the rest of his body evenly
Tandem's Explosive tags hit everywhere on Juubito's body



-JT- said:


> I hate to be 'that guy', and I do actually like Sakura to a reasonable degree before someone claims otherwise, but I really think that this feat was very shoddy and inconsistent writing on Kishimoto's part.
> Either that, or Kaguya's hype far, far outclasses what she can actually do and her horns aren't ridiculously durable anyway. In which case, this feat is nothing compared to what Sakura did against the Juubilings.


Sorry, but this does seem like Sakura-hate. The reason why it seems that way is, because it's ether A) Sakura had PNJ or B) Kaguya's horn couldn't be that strong. Yet you offer no explanation for why it can't be C) Everyone simply underestimated Sakura. We have never seen the upper limit of Sakura's striking force, so this scene in no way contradicts anything else that was previously established.


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## wooly Eullerex (Aug 20, 2014)

Kyu said:


> So apparently Sakura knocked off a horn of Nardoverse's God.
> 
> At full power, how much damage can a single punch of hers deal to the following:
> 
> ...



bonus: Gai crumples her like a soda can


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## Turrin (Aug 20, 2014)

walpurgis Burgoo said:


> Neji's Rotation(mid-spin)//no damage, she gets repelled


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## Hachibi (Aug 20, 2014)

Turrin said:


> No he's not. Juubidara was getting his ass beat by God-Mode Naruto w/o Naruto even using his Kyuubi-Chakra-Shroud, while Kaguya was casually tanking Gode-Mode Naruto's hits w/ Kyuubi-Chakra-Shroud (and later Gobi's power up), and that was before her strength increased dramatically after absorbing that massive quantity of chakra this chapter. So let's stop with the delusions shall we



You do realise he just came out of his fight against Gai when he faced Naruto?  and he never got manhandled by him: he blocked his fist and he got YRS'd
And no, i don't see how's that casually if she got send back by his punch 
Nevermind that Juudara reacted fine to both God-Mode Naruto and God-Mode Sasuke after absorbing the tree and only got blitzed due to lack of intel in Madara's part.


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## Rocky (Aug 20, 2014)

Turrin said:


> The force of Naruto's Gobi Blow sent her flying head first into a rock cliff. That means he head was indeed hit with the force of that blow. In the other instance Naruto punched her right in the head as well.



We only know that Naruto smacked Kaguya into that cliff. I don't know where you're getting "head first."

I assume the other instance is Naruto hitting Kaguya off the Man Sexy Jutsu diversion, but he stuck her in the face. Sakura hit her from above. On the top of her head.



Where her horn is.



> The Madara clones aren't normal clones. They were tossing Bijuu around, even before Madara became the Juubi Jinchuuriki. After becoming the JuubiJinchuuriki they tossed God-Mode Naruto around like nothing. And never once did we ever see them effected by any damage. So that is a moot point.



Madara had Sage Mode, and people with Sage Mode can physically compete with bijū. Jūbidara can physically compete with Rikudō Naruto too.

"Tossed around like nothing" is a _laughable_ exaggeration. Actually, I recall Naruto using Kage Bunshin, a jutsu that divides power, to go _hand to hand_ with the Limbo bunshin. 

There is no evidence whatsoever that the clones are more powerful than Madara himself. 



> Madara didn't block Gai's attack with a Rinbo Clone, so again a moot point.



He blocked it with his Truth Seeking Staff, which is most likely more potent defense than some arm of a clone.


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## Ashi (Aug 20, 2014)

Rocky said:


> We only know that Naruto smacked Kaguya into that cliff. I don't know where you're getting "head first."
> 
> I assume the other instance is Naruto hitting Kaguya off the Man Sexy Jutsu diversion, but he stuck her in the face. Sakura hit her from above. On the top of her head.
> 
> ...




He blocked it put still got buried with his daylight a out eh


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## Narutossss (Aug 20, 2014)

someone actually went and made this thread


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## Turrin (Aug 20, 2014)

Rocky said:


> We only know that Naruto smacked Kaguya into that cliff. I don't know where you're getting "head first."


There is rubble on Kaguya's head that's how we know the head hit the cliff. I also don't even know how it's physical possible that her head couldn't have hit the cliff side:
[1]



> I assume the other instance is Naruto hitting Kaguya off the Man Sexy Jutsu diversion, but he stuck her in the face. Sakura hit her from above. On the top of her head.


He struck her on the side the head (where the horn is). We can see that from where the impact marker is as well as the way she is sent flying away



> Madara had Sage Mode, and people with Sage Mode can physically compete with bijū. Jūbidara can physically compete with Rikudō Naruto too.


Physically compete is different than sending someone or something flying like nothing. 

Also you seem to be missing the point. Your apply the typical way clones work to Rinbo Clones, when clearly this is not correct.

- Normal clones disperse when hit Rinbo clones don't
- Normal clones feel damage when hit, Rinbo clones don't seem to feel any damage at all
- Normal clones can use the casters Jutsu, can Rinbo clones; and if so Rinbo clone could have used a Jutsu to defend Sakura's attack
- Normal clones divide the casters power or at least take a portion of the casters power, do Rinbo clones

Than there is the simple fact hat, since we can't see the Rinbo clone, we don't even know what happened to the Rinbo clone Sakura hit. For all we know it could have been one-shotted and finished right there

There is far to little known about Rinbo clones to make the case your trying to make.

Beyond that the case itself doesn't make any sense. We saw on panel Sakura punch Kaguya enough to damage her. Yet your suggesting that a Rinbo clone tanked Sakura's hit like nothing. For that to be true it would have to mean that the Juubidara is physical stronger than Kaguya, wait scratch that a Kaguya who just absorbed mass amounts of chakra from the Shinobi world greatly enhancing her strength. That is utter nonsense.



> There is no evidence whatsoever that the clones are more powerful than Madara himself.


It's not a matter of the clones being more powerful than Madara. It could very simply be that the clone can't be damaged, and can only be sealed or bound, due to their nature. I'm certainly willing to believe that far more than Juubidara being physically stronger than Kaguya who just recieved an massive power boost



> He blocked it with his Truth Seeking Staff, which is most likely more potent defense than some arm of a clone.


And you should be happy that i'm willing to grant the the truth seeking staff made up the massive difference in level between current Kaguya and Madara before he even absorbed the tree.

Especially since Madara was blown back by Gode-Mode Naruto who wasn't even using Bijuu shroud despite blocking with the truth seeking staff, and recieved more damage than Kaguya did from being hit by Gode Mode Naruto w/ Bijuu shroud, when not blocking with anything, and that was before Kaguya absorb the massive amount of chakra this chapter, which greatly enhanced her strength



Hachibi said:


> You do realise he just came out of his fight against Gai when he faced Naruto?  and he never got manhandled by him: he blocked his fist and he got YRS'd


Madara specifically said it was not due to the injuries from Gai that Naruto was overwhelming him 



> And no, i don't see how's that casually if she got send back by his punch
> Nevermind that [


Taking no damage whatsoever equals casually.



> Juudara reacted fine to both God-Mode Naruto and God-Mode Sasuke after absorbing the tree and only got blitzed due to lack of intel in Madara's part.


And I was referring to the Madara who faced Gai; the one who did not absorb the Tree yet

But if you really want to go there, Kaguya literally took over Madara's body and than absorbed more chakra form the Shinobi bound by the world's tree becoming stronger. And i'm not even talking about this chapter, but when she was initially resurrected. So how on earth does it make sense that she is physically weaker than Madara


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## Hachibi (Aug 20, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Madara specifically said it was not due to the injuries from Gai that Naruto was overwhelming him



Still doesn't change the fact that he didn't get physically overwhelm by Naruto.




> Taking no damage whatsoever equals casually.



Not really. If you get send back by a punch that doesn't mean that you can get them all day long.




> And I was referring to the Madara who faced Gai; the one who did not absorb the Tree yet



Which had the time to think against Night Guy, which has the biggest speed feat in this entire manga.



> But if you really want to go there, Kaguya literally took over Madara's body and than absorbed more chakra form the Shinobi bound by the world's tree becoming stronger. And i'm not even talking about this chapter, but when she was initially resurrected. So how on earth does it make sense that she is physically weaker than Madara



Because he blocked Sakura's Byakugo's punch with Limbo (which have the same stat as Madara,) and blocked a attack form Cloacked God-Mode Naruto with it, and his Limbo clone fought with Naruto's while Kaguya got overwhelmed by them and he has better reflex than her (reacting to Naruto's blitz attempt)


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## Turrin (Aug 20, 2014)

Hachibi said:


> Still doesn't change the fact that he didn't get physically overwhelm by Naruto.


Being forced back and slammed into a wall isn't being physically overwhelmed 



> Not really. If you get send back by a punch that doesn't mean that you can get them all day long.


Can we just agree the damage was infinitesimally small, if it occurred at all?



> Which had the time to think against Night Guy, which has the biggest speed feat in this entire manga.


This has nothing to do with anything. 



> Because he blocked Sakura's Byakugo's punch with Limbo (which have the same stat as Madara,)



- Give me the scan that states this. 
- Give me the scan that states Rinbo clone didn't use a Jutsu
- Give me the scan that shows what condition the Rinbo clone was in after being hit



> and blocked a attack form Cloacked God-Mode Naruto with it, and his Limbo clone fought with Naruto's while Kaguya got overwhelmed by them and he has better reflex than her (reacting to Naruto's blitz attempt)


Please show scans of what your referring to, because I don't remember any of the instances your talking about for Kaguya being comparable to the instances with Madara. I also would like proof that Rinbo clones can be used as stand ins for Madara


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## LostSelf (Aug 20, 2014)

> *0)* Neji's _Rotation_(mid-spin)



Didn't Neji's Rotation stopped a Juubi's arm? If it did, i am not certain if Sakura can bypass it. But i wouldn't be surprised if it did.



> *1)* Orochimaru



Survives.



> *2)* Itachi's Complete _Susano'o_



At best she cracks it. Tsunade, who had comparabel strenght barely could bust a lower version. I don't see Sakura bypassing the complete version.



> *3)* Sandaime Raikage



Probably survives..



> *4)* Sasuke's PS



Does nothing.



> *5)* 50% Kurama



Survives with injuries.



> *6)* Naruto's Biju Mode Fox Avatar



Survives with injuries.



> *7)* Madara's PS



Does nothing.



> *8)* Jubito (No _Gudōdama_ to defend)



Not sure about it. It shouldn't destroy it, though.



> *9)* The Shinju Tree



Breaks it but not completely, obviously.



> *Bonus Scenario*
> 
> Sakura's strongest punch and Night Gai collides head on. What happens?



Lol, poor Sakura.


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## Hachibi (Aug 20, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Being forced back and slammed into a wall isn't being physically overwhelmed



I mean getting blitzed, I worded it wrong.




> Can we just agree the damage was infinitesimally small, if it occurred at all?



If you want.




> This has nothing to do with anything.



That just a reaction feat tho mentally (which is what some Rinnegan jutsu and the Gudodama work with: the thought)



> - Give me the scan that states this.


It safe to assume that since it could tango with Rikudo Senjutsu Naruto in CQC



> - Give me the scan that states Rinbo clone didn't use a Jutsu


There's none.


> - Give me the scan that shows what condition the Rinbo clone was in after being hit





Please show scans of what your referring to, because I don't remember any of the instances your talking about for Kaguya being comparable to the instances with Madara. I also would like proof that Rinbo clones can be used as stand ins for Madara[/QUOTE]



*Spoiler*: __


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## Rocky (Aug 20, 2014)

Turrin said:


> There is rubble on Kaguya's head that's how we know the head hit the cliff. I also don't even know how it's physical possible that her head couldn't have hit the cliff side:
> [1]



There is debris on her head because she slammed into that cliff, which formed a hole it. 

The force of that attack was distributed equally all around Kaguya, not concentrated at the top of her skull like Sakura's punch was. It isn't like Naruto hit her on the dome with that Gobi punch from behind.



> He struck her on the side the head (where the horn is). We can see that from where the impact marker is as well as the way she is sent flying away



I suppose there is room for debate then, because to me it appears as if he punched her in the cheek.

Nevertheless, this point is mostly irrelevant. Sakura probably does hit harder than Godruto, just not with the Gobi enhancement. 



> Physically compete is different than sending someone or something flying like nothing.



Base A sent B _flying_ after B had just overpowered his black ass in the Lariat contest. So we get RnY A < B < Base A? No, B just wasn't expecting it. 

The bijū couldn't see the Limbo Clone and thus got surprise bitch slapped. Madara may actually be physically _weaker_ than any of them and still possess the strength to send them packing with his fist.



> Than there is the simple fact hat, since we can't see the Rinbo clone, we don't even know what happened to the Rinbo clone Sakura hit. For all we know it could have been one-shotted and finished right there



I know we don't know for certain what happened, but it _really_ looks like the clone simply blocked her punch.



> Beyond that the case itself doesn't make any sense. We saw on panel Sakura punch Kaguya enough to damage her. Yet your suggesting that a Rinbo clone tanked Sakura's hit like nothing. For that to be true it would have to mean that the Juubidara is physical stronger than Kaguya, wait scratch that a Kaguya who just absorbed mass amounts of chakra from the Shinobi world greatly enhancing her strength. That is utter nonsense.



What I believe is that an aware Madara blocked her punch and thus was fine, while an _unsuspecting_ (notice the "!!?") Kaguya got hit in a vital area and was damaged.

Had the roles been reversed, Kaguya would have blocked Sakura casually and Madara would have been damaged more than Kaguya was.

I don't know why you think guarding is irrelevant. Naruto's _surprise blow_ to Kaguya's face left a mark and sent her flying, yet later she _blocked_ him without effort.


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## Tapion (Aug 20, 2014)

Consistently judging a manga with inconsistent feats.....


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## Trojan (Aug 20, 2014)

Turrin said:


> And let's also not forget Juubito tanking Tandem Explosive Tags w/o a scratch



he probably tanked via the Gedu-damas actually.


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## Jad (Aug 20, 2014)

Starraver said:


> Consistently judging a manga with inconsistent feats.....



That's almost part of the reason why I stopped debating intensely in the battledome. I do a few posts and that's it. "I'm too old for this shit"


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## Turrin (Aug 20, 2014)

Rocky said:


> There is debris on her head because she slammed into that cliff, which formed a hole it.


So her head hit the cliff, alongside the rest of her body creating a hole 



> The force of that attack was distributed equally all around Kaguya, not concentrated at the top of her skull like Sakura's punch was. It isn't like Naruto hit her on the dome with that Gobi punch from behind.


Her whole body was hit by the force into the cliff wall, that includes her head. It's not like just because the rest of her body also received the force of the attack that makes the force received to the head any less potent. 



> I suppose there is room for debate then, because to me it appears as if he punched her in the cheek.
> 
> Nevertheless, this point is mostly irrelevant. Sakura probably does hit harder than Godruto,


Well if you agree she hits harder than God-Mode Naruto, than I don't see the need to go further with this part of the discussion.



> just not with the Gobi enhancement.


Let's pretend for a second Gobi Naruto did hit harder. Sakura didn't use her enhancement ether when hitting Kaguya. She did not use any of her stored chakra from the Byakugo-Seal to further boost Okasho. So even if that is the case Byakugo-Sakura probably hits harder with Okasho than Gobi-Naruto still 



> Base A sent B flying after B had just overpowered his black ass in the Lariat contest. So we get RnY A < B < Base A? No, B just wasn't expecting it.


God-Mode Naruto can sense Rinbo clones though. As for the Bijuu it's not an issue of being caught off guard it's an issue of being able to displace their body mass. We haven't seen any SM users be able to blow away something as big and heavy as those Bijuu so casually.



> I know we don't know for certain what happened, but it really looks like the clone simply blocked her punch.


It looks like the Rinbo clone protect Madara somehow. I don't think it's at all fair or even makes the most sense to suggest it simply blocked the punch.



> What I believe is that an aware Madara blocked her punch and thus was fine, while an unsuspecting (notice the "!!?") Kaguya got hit in a vital area and was damaged.


How did Madara block? If your implying that he just made the typical cross guard and therefore was able to take the hit w/ zero issue, that suggests that creating a cross guard is one of the most powerful defenses in the entire verse. Because it allowed a Rinbo clone to casually take a hit that did damage to Current Kaguya, who by all rights is several levels beyond Juubidara in power. 



> Had the roles been reversed, Kaguya would have blocked Sakura casually and Madara would have been damaged more than Kaguya was.


I don't think cross guards make that much difference in blocking potential. I mean when have we seen a guard matter that much. 



> I don't know why you think guarding is irrelevant. Naruto's surprise blow to Kaguya's face left a mark and sent her flying, yet later she blocked him without effort.


I think a guard matters, but not anywhere near the amount your claiming it does. 

The difference between the example your citing, and what your claiming Madara's guard did for him is extremely vast. 

In the Naruto example. Naruto did extremely minimal damage when Kaguya did not guard, and did no damage when she did. The difference is there, but it's not massive.

In the case of Sakura. She went from doing more significant damage to Current-Kaguya (than Naruto did), to doing nothing to Madara. Kaguya w/ current chakra >> Kaguya before >> Madara. So this difference the guard made would have to be absolutely astronomical. 

Are there any examples you can show me where guard makes such an astronomical difference.



Hachibi said:


> I mean getting blitzed, I worded it wrong.


Speed has never been the issue, so that seems  vastly off topic, unless i'm missing something.



> If you want.


Great



> That just a reaction feat tho mentally (which is what some Rinnegan jutsu and the Gudodama work with: the thought)


But once again when was speed the issue

I get the impression that you think i'm saying Sakura > 8th-Gate Gai, when I'm simply saying her striking force is >= than 8th-Gate Gai's EE Isoku.



> It safe to assume that since it could tango with Rikudo Senjutsu Naruto in CQC


being able to take on God-Mode Naruto doesn't mean it's equivalent to Madara. It could be better or worse than Madara depending on the task. Rinbo is one of the least explained Jutsu in the manga.



> There's none


- So Rinbo clones could be using Jutsu, in which case, this is not a good comparison your making.

- The scan you showed does not indicate the one Sakura hit (if she even hit one) is among those clones; in-fact the previous page seems to imply Madara created more Rinbo clones

- The example your showing of Kaguya facing Naruto clones is not comparable to Madara. Naruto used what 2K clones against Kaguya and she was defending against them all. While he used 1 against each Rinbo clone.


----------



## trance (Aug 20, 2014)

Starraver said:


> Consistently judging a manga with *inconsistent feats*.....



This person got it right.


----------



## -JT- (Aug 21, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Sorry, but this does seem like Sakura-hate. The reason why it seems that way is, because it's ether A) Sakura had PNJ or B) Kaguya's horn couldn't be that strong. Yet you offer no explanation for why it can't be C) Everyone simply underestimated Sakura. We have never seen the upper limit of Sakura's striking force, so this scene in no way contradicts anything else that was previously established.



Well I can sincerely assure you that it's not. And I'm not saying that it's PnJ, merely inconsistent writing. You cannot tell me that you truly think a single punch from Sakura (that didn't even look that good compared to much more impressive feats such as her strike against the Juubinlings) is stronger than 8 Gates Guy. 
Guy's strikes smashed Madara underground, if I recall correctly, whereas (in this particular instance anyway) Sakura merely smacked Kaguya's head down.
I'm not trying to target Sakura with the 'inconsistent writing' stick, it could just as well be that the Guy/Madara scuffle made Madara look stupidly resilient when by all rights he should have been obliterated.


Now, without further ado, and to make it crystal clear that I'm not here just to target and laugh at Sakura, I'll join in the fun as I'm here anyway.


Kyu said:


> So apparently Sakura knocked off a horn of Nardoverse's God.
> 
> At full power, how much damage can a single punch of hers deal to the following:
> 
> ...


----------



## J★J♥ (Aug 21, 2014)

1)Kaiten wont just stop her punch it will rip her fucking hand off
2)Orochimaru, Orochimaru what ? What if she punches Tenten ?
3)Depending on angle can be BFR
4+ will just pull


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## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 21, 2014)

I think she destroys Neji and probably Orochimaru. But thats about it. The others survive with varying levels of difficulty.


----------



## Turrin (Aug 21, 2014)

-JT- said:


> Well I can sincerely assure you that it's not. And I'm not saying that it's PnJ, merely inconsistent writing. You cannot tell me that you truly think a single punch from Sakura (that didn't even look that good compared to much more impressive feats such as her strike against the Juubinlings) is stronger than 8 Gates Guy.


Here's the problem. You says the punch didn't look that good as a reason for why breaking Kaguya's horn is inconsistent, but breaking Kaguya's horn is why it looked good. So yes something doesn't look good, if we ignore the reason why it looked good. 



> Guy's strikes smashed Madara underground, if I recall correctly, whereas (in this particular instance anyway) Sakura merely smacked Kaguya's head down.


The difference being that 

A) Kaguya is a-lot stronger than the Madara Gai faced.
B) Kaguya was immediately held in place by Naruto and Sasuke's Fuuinjutsu, while nothing was there to catch Madara



> I'm not trying to target Sakura with the 'inconsistent writing' stick, it could just as well be that the Guy/Madara scuffle made Madara look stupidly resilient when by all rights he should have been obliterated.


The problem is nothing is inconsistent. For to be inconsistent we'd need something that tells us what Sakura's max striking power is, and that it should not be able to do that damage to Kaguya. We don't have that. Thee only thing we see from Sakura is an incredibly impressive striking feat against the Juublings and than Hashirama saying she might be better than Tsunade, leaving the door open for that to be the case. Than this chapter Sakura demonstrates how she is indeed better than Tsunade in striking force. That's not an inconsistence it's actually something that was built up to from many chapters ago. 

No different than if Naruto pulled out a Rasengan and someone said he might be better than Minato at Rasengan, than later he pulls out a Oddoma Rasengan, proving that to be the case. Heck Naruto could even later pull out a Chou Oddoma Rasengan, and it would still not be at all inconsistent with what was established previously.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Aug 21, 2014)

Rocky said:


> Naruto did not punch Kaguya in the horn though.
> 
> A Madara clone was able to casually block Sakura's punch, while blocking Gai's resulted in him getting buried a mile underground.



Didn't he block Sakura with a ghost clone stand, and he blocked Guy normally?

That way that was structured with the flashback to Tsunade and byako made it seem like Sakura's punch would have killed him or seriously injured him without prior knowledge of Byako.

Which I guess totally ignores Night Guy needing time space taijutsu to hurt, which is funny if it doesn't make you cry.

I see you mentioned stuff about limbo clones and Naruto I forgot happened.  I assumed you needed 6 path powers to actually damage or fight with the clones.  Similar to how only sage powered attacks worked on Madara. 



Starraver said:


> Consistently judging a manga with inconsistent feats.....




Eh.

The more I have to think about these things the more I think I just shouldn't post in Naruto threads anymore.  Well, I should never have posted, but skipping past that.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 21, 2014)

Turrin said:


> B) Kaguya was immediately held in place by Naruto and Sasuke's Fuuinjutsu, while nothing was there to catch Madara



except for 100 meters of solid earth


----------



## Turrin (Aug 21, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> except for 100 meters of solid earth


Implying that Earth > God-Mode Naruto and Sasuke, + Hagoromo and Hamura's ultimate Fuuinjutsu


----------



## Rocky (Aug 21, 2014)

Turrin said:


> So her head hit the cliff, alongside the rest of her body creating a hole
> 
> Her whole body was hit by the force into the cliff wall, that includes her head. It's not like just because the rest of her body also received the force of the attack that makes the force received to the head any less potent.



Of course her head would have received damage, I'm not arguing against that.

I'm only saying that the comparison doesn't really work  



> We haven't seen any SM users be able to blow away something as big and heavy as those Bijuu so casually.



Naruto ragdolled Nagato's boss Rhino and suplexed the Kyūbi.

Jiraiya kicked Nagato's ram in the face and sent it flying. 



> It looks like the Rinbo clone protect Madara somehow. I don't think it's at all fair or even makes the most sense to suggest it simply blocked the punch.



Well I'm really not sure why it doesn't make sense.



> How did Madara block? If your implying that he just made the typical cross guard and therefore was able to take the hit w/ zero issue, that suggests that creating a cross guard is one of the most powerful defenses in the entire verse. Because it allowed a Rinbo clone to casually take a hit that did damage to Current Kaguya, who by all rights is several levels beyond Juubidara in power.



Sakura'a punch only broke off her horn man. 

Sakura did minor damage with a direct hit, while Madara was able to guard comfortably by blocking.  You really see issue with that?

I mean, it could be possible that Kaguya isn't super durable.



> I mean when have we seen a guard matter that much.



Remember when Jiraiya kicked Human Pain so hard he lost the use of his eyes.

Later in that fight, Human was able to block J-man's fist _with one hand._



> In the case of Sakura. She went from doing more significant damage to Current-Kaguya (than Naruto did), to doing nothing to Madara. Kaguya w/ current chakra >> Kaguya before >> Madara. So this difference the guard made would have to be absolutely astronomical.



Well first off, Kaguya can be far more powerful than Madara without being eons more durable. This isn't DBZ (yet). 

Do you think Sakura hits harder than Red Stream Gai? What damage do you think Kaguya would receive if Gai hit her in on the skull with the 5th strike of 	Sekizō? How about Yagai?


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## ueharakk (Aug 21, 2014)

Turrin said:


> There are several good estimates.
> 
> Gai's EE Issoku did a similar amount of damage to pre-tree absorption Juubidara, whose much weaker than Current-Kaguya.
> 
> ...



Madara blocked Gai's EE with his arms and onmyouton staff.  

And why would anyone expect naruto's punch to break off kaguya's horn when the punch didn't hit the horn?

Sakura's punch barely even pushed kaguya down, Naruto's normal punch sent her flying in the opposite direction, his kokuo powered punch first went through her chakra arm and sent her flying with enough force to blow up a cliff.

Unless you want to claim that Naruto's punches directly hit Kaguya's horn like Sakura's did, then Sakura's punch breaking off a horn while naruto's don't is completely irrelevant.  The only comparison that can be made is via distance kaguya was sent by the punch, and Kaguya got sent flying way father by naruto's attacks, one of them which had to go through one of her chakra arms before even making contact with her.


----------



## Butterfly (Aug 21, 2014)

I don't see what about this feat is inconsistent to be honest. If anything, I'm surprised only her horn broke with Sakura's supposed strength. 

Sakura's always been suggested to have the best striking strength (post-Tsunade training anyways). It doesn't surprise me her punch can do more damage than Naruto's, considering how Hashirama praised her strength. 

As for Kaguya not noticing, she noticed Sakura before she was hit and has an ample way of dealing with her. I'm going to think that she couldn't do anything because she was already propelling herself upwards and moving around would leave her open to attack from Kakashi (who was beneath her). Kaguya chose to deal with Sakura thinking she was the easiest to tank and she turned out to be wrong. 

Now, on topic, she can only get through Neji's rotation. I wish this was adequately scaled but you literally conjured up a list of things she can't pulverize on the first hit.  Props to OP for the discredit.


----------



## ueharakk (Aug 21, 2014)

*
Madara was able to rip his own horns off with his strength.*  Kaguya would be able to do the same.  If she has the physical strength to one-hand her horns, then she'd be able to punch the equivalent of them off with far less difficulty if she's in the same position as Sakura.  

Sakura doesn't even hit on the same level as Kaguya or Naruto w/o them even using chakra arms or kokuo's powers.  This should have been clear when people like mindless juubito had the strength to just run through EMS Sasuke's susanoo while 'base' naruto overpowered JJ madara pre-shinjuu, or when Juubito created a massive crater by slamming Naruto and Sasuke into the ground.

Not everyone in this manga gets the opportunity to display their strength by punching rock with all their might, V1 bee's lariat causes a far greater explosion than anything I've seen from Naruto, Kaguya or Madara's physical hits, yet that does that mean V1 Bee's hits are > theirs?


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## Butterfly (Aug 21, 2014)

ueharakk said:


> *
> Madara was able to rip his own horns off with his strength.*  Kaguya would be able to do the same.  If she has the physical strength to one-hand her horns, then she'd be able to punch the equivalent of them off with far less difficulty if she's in the same position as Sakura.
> 
> Sakura doesn't even hit on the same level as Kaguya or Naruto w/o them even using chakra arms or kokuo's powers.  This should have been clear when people like mindless juubito had the strength to just run through EMS Sasuke's susanoo while 'base' naruto overpowered JJ madara pre-shinjuu, or when Juubito created a massive crater by slamming Naruto and Sasuke into the ground.
> ...



I highly doubt Sakura was punching at full strength anyways. We see that a full punch from Tsunade is enough to blast away Madara with high velocity twice (Susanno included). Another punch from Tsunade sent Orochimaru flying. If she were to go all out, she'd plummet into the ground and Naruto and Sasuke would miss their opportunity to seal her or she'd have a chance to recover before she fell into the ground. If anything, I would take it as a feat of speed more than strength. 

I don't get what this punch impacts when we've seen her do better.


----------



## ueharakk (Aug 21, 2014)

Butterfly said:


> I highly doubt Sakura was punching at full strength anyways. We see that a full punch from Tsunade is enough to blast away Madara with high velocity twice (Susanno included). Another punch from Tsunade sent Orochimaru flying. If she were to go all out, she'd plummet into the ground and Naruto and Sasuke would miss their opportunity to seal her or she'd have a chance to recover before she fell into the ground. If anything, I would take it as a feat of speed more than strength.


Why do any of those things imply in the slightest that sakura wasn't punching at full strength?  edo madara and orochimaru are ants in physical strength even compared to mindless juubito who's so powerful he could just run through Sasuke's EMS ribcage susanoo as if it wasn't even there, while that same tsunade you mentioned needed to hit madara's ribcage susanoo more than once + attacks from weighted Ei in order to break it.



Butterfly said:


> I don't get what this punch impacts when we've seen her do better.


as far as flash explosion, sure we've seen her do better.


----------



## Butterfly (Aug 21, 2014)

ueharakk said:


> Why do any of those things imply in the slightest that sakura wasn't punching at full strength?  edo madara and orochimaru are ants in physical strength even compared to mindless juubito who's so powerful he could just run through Sasuke's EMS ribcage susanoo as if it wasn't even there, while that same tsunade you mentioned needed to hit madara's ribcage susanoo more than once + attacks from weighted Ei in order to break it.
> 
> 
> as far as flash explosion, sure we've seen her do better.



Because Sakura's strength feats have been by and large superior to this display? A single blow from her master was enough to chuck Madara's Susanno far into the air. 

While they are ants tenten tier in physical strength, strength isn't exactly the relevant part here. Just because you have superior strength feats doesn't mean you're suddenly unable to counter the moving force of the blow. That's dependent on weight and gravity. Tsunade needed to hit Susanno twice, and weighted A only attacked once to break it. I should note that all times she attacked Madara, aside from the combined attack with A, Madara went flying. If Sakura were to strike someone with her full physical strength, there would probably be a launch accompanied by it which is kind of a no go for trying to get something sealed by people feet below you.

Additionally, the shockwave would interfere with Naruto and Sasuke's positioning, which, again, would be detrimental to the cause. Of course, I have no concrete proof, but it's a hell of a lot more sense than Sakura striking with all of her strength.


----------



## egressmadara (Aug 21, 2014)

She can one-shot Ino now


----------



## ueharakk (Aug 21, 2014)

Butterfly said:


> Because Sakura's strength feats have been by and large superior to this display? A single blow from her master was enough to chuck Madara's Susanno far into the air.


how is chucking a susanoo far into the air a superior strength feat?



Butterfly said:


> While they are ants tenten tier in physical strength, strength isn't exactly the relevant part here. Just because you have superior strength feats doesn't mean you're suddenly unable to counter the moving force of the blow. That's dependent on weight and gravity.


in the real world, sure, but not in this manga.  In this manga, even the distance one gets sent by a hit is dependent on the relative physical strength of the person getting sent regardless of their weight.  



Butterfly said:


> Tsunade needed to hit Susanno twice, and weighted A only attacked once to break it. I should note that all times she attacked Madara, aside from the combined attack with A, Madara went flying. If Sakura were to strike someone with her full physical strength, there would probably be a launch accompanied by it which is kind of a no go for trying to get something sealed by people feet below you.


So by the logic of Tsunade needing to hit susanoo twice + Ei in order to break it, Juubito is far stronger than her since he's able to just run through susanoo as if it weren't even there.



Butterfly said:


> Additionally, the shockwave would interfere with Naruto and Sasuke's positioning, which, again, would be detrimental to the cause. Of course, I have no concrete proof, but it's a hell of a lot more sense than Sakura striking with all of her strength.


No shockwave would be generated.  A shockwave is only generated when she hits something like the ground, when she actually punches something that's super durable or has extreme physical strength on its own, we see *nothing generated.*

Same with tsunade when she hits super durable susanoo with her punches.  same with bee when he hits Sasuke with his V1 lariat or kisame with the far more powerful V2 lariat while his V1 does* this to solid rock.

*


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 21, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Implying that Earth > God-Mode Naruto and Sasuke, + Hagoromo and Hamura's ultimate Fuuinjutsu



Graphically yes. Kishimoto wasn't trying to emphasize Naruto or Sasuke's mid air grapling strength in that scan. 

Getting a straight hit to the head from Sakura broke the horn and shook her a little. Madara fully blocked Gai's punch and still went beneath the ground with a huge impact. Going by visual evidence, it isn't possible to compare those 2 hits. 

Gai's punch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sakura's punch.


----------



## Turrin (Aug 21, 2014)

Rocky said:


> Of course her head would have received damage, I'm not arguing against that.
> 
> I'm only saying that the comparison doesn't really work


But you've neglected to explain why it doesn't work. 



> Naruto ragdolled Nagato's boss Rhino and suplexed the Kyūbi.
> 
> Jiraiya kicked Nagato's ram in the face and sent it flying.


Sennin Modo Naruto struggled to throw Kurama a few feet. Here Kurama is blown away w/o issue.




> Well I'm really not sure why it doesn't make sense.


It doesn't make sense because it relies on the explanation that a cross guard made up the massive difference in "level" between current Kaguya and Madara.



> Sakura'a punch only broke off her horn man.
> 
> Sakura did minor damage with a direct hit, while Madara was able to guard comfortably by blocking. You really see issue with that?


Breaking someone's horn off (and bare in mind we still haven't seen Kaguya's face) isn't minor damage. It's not severe damage, but not minor ether. Minor damage is what God-Mode Naruto did when he punched Kaguya.

And the major issue with that is Madara is not Kaguya. The difference in their strength is astronomical. 



> Remember when Jiraiya kicked Human Pain so hard he lost the use of his eyes.
> 
> Later in that fight, Human was able to block J-man's fist with one hand.


Jiriaya's kick really did nothing to Human-Realm, except to Human-Realm's eyes. The eyes not having the same durability as the body has been long since established. So it's not really a fair example. However even putting that aside, the difference between Human-Realm and Sennin Modo J-man was never demonstrated to be anywhere near as massive as the difference between Kaguya and Madara. 



> Well first off, Kaguya can be far more powerful than Madara without being eons more durable. This isn't DBZ (yet).


Let's be genuine here. The more chakra that a Bijuu has the more durable it becomes, and considering Kaguya is the Juubi, well you can connect the dots. Additionally Zetsu even comments that Kaguya's strength increases with the amount of chakra she takes in; and Kaguya has better durability feats than Madara (tanking 9 Bijuu Rasenshuriken)



> Do you think Sakura hits harder than Red Stream Gai? What damage do you think Kaguya would receive if Gai hit her in on the skull with the 5th strike of Sekizō? How about Yagai?



I think Base-Sakura hits harder than 8th-Gate Gai's Issoku. But 8th-Gate Gai can hit harder overall as he doesn't just use Issoku, he uses Issoku, Nisoku, Sansoku, Yonsoku, etc...in his high speed combination. 

So it's more like 1 hit from Sakura >= 1 hit 8th-Gate Gai, but 8th-Gate Gai can land a 5 hit combination while Sakura is only landing 1 hit.

Granted Gai can also enhance his striking power with Night Gai, but Sakura can also do so with Byakugo.


----------



## Turrin (Aug 21, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Graphically yes. Kishimoto wasn't trying to emphasize Naruto or Sasuke's mid air grapling strength in that scan.
> 
> Getting a straight hit to the head from Sakura broke the horn and shook her a little. Madara fully blocked Gai's punch and still went beneath the ground with a huge impact. Going by visual evidence, it isn't possible to compare those 2 hits.
> .


It has nothing to do with demonstrating grappling strength. It's the simple fact that one hit the ground while the other did not; so saying one made a crater while the other did not is an irrelevant and pointless distinction to make. If Kaguya hit the ground and didn't go as deep as Madara, than we could say Gai's blow was stronger or Kaguya was stronger than Madara. But Kaguya never hit the ground because her momentum was stopped by God Mode Sasu/Naru's Fuuinjutsu.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 21, 2014)

Turrin said:


> It has nothing to do with demonstrating grappling strength. It's the simple fact that one hit the ground while the other did not; so saying one made a crater while the other did not is an irrelevant and pointless distinction to make. If Kaguya hit the ground and didn't go as deep as Madara, than we could say Gai's blow was stronger or Kaguya was stronger than Madara. But Kaguya never hit the ground because her momentum was stopped by God Mode Sasu/Naru's Fuuinjutsu.



Like I already said, visually Gai's hit looks alot more impressive. Both the initial impact and the end result.
Technicality doesn't matter here.

Also we've already seen Gai's limbo clone block Sakura effortlessly. Madara himself couldn't manage to block Gai. The difference in their punching strength should be astronomical.


----------



## Turrin (Aug 21, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Like I already said, visually Gai's hit looks alot more impressive. Both the initial impact and the end result.
> Technicality doesn't matter here.


Sakura's Okasho in the second bell-test is more flashy than the Okasho she uses against Kaguya, that doesn't mean we should throw away the common sense aspect of who Kaguya is and what is means to damage her, in favor of SPII Okasho being stronger than the Okasho Sakura used against Kaguya. To do so would make absolutely no sense. The same is true of your argument about Gai.


----------



## StickaStick (Aug 21, 2014)

Only the Shinju tree and the respective Perfect Susanoo's survive without their defense being shattered; as well as possibly Naruto's fox avatar, but I don't quite recall any impress tanking feats of its own. Maybe I'm simply forgetting. Can't believe I'm actually reading some ppl saying Oro, Neji's rotation defense, or Itachi's Susanoo aren't completely obliterated. Smh.


----------



## FlamingRain (Aug 21, 2014)

Kyu said:


> *0)* Neji's _Rotation_(mid-spin)



A repeat of Kn0 vs. Part 1 Neji's Rotation.



> *1)* Orochimaru



Temporarily stunned if it hits him right in the face, but still survives and recovers afterward.



> *2)* Itachi's Complete _Susano'o_



Assuming Yata's Mirror _isn't_ used, she chips it at best while it gets blown backwards.



> *3)* Sandaime Raikage



Might get a bruise.



> *4)* Sasuke's PS



No-sells it.



> *5)* 50% Kurama



Sustains relatively superficial damage, but regenerates whatever damage there is.



> *6)* Naruto's Biju Mode Fox Avatar



The shroud might be phased, but it's probably thick enough that Naruto himself shouldn't be affected.



> *7)* Madara's PS



No-sells it.



> *8)* Jubito (No _Gudōdama_ to defend)



Sustains peripheral damage, then regenerates.



> *9)*The Tree



Once it turned into the tree people didn't seem to have too much of an issue actually damaging it. It was so hard to take down due primarily to its sheer size.

She can put a giant dent in it, but not fell it.



> *Bonus Scenario*
> 
> Sakura's strongest punch and Night Gai collides head on. What happens?



Pink haired girl turns into pink mist.


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## LostSelf (Aug 21, 2014)

Narutoforums, you break a featless horn and you are god tier .


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 22, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Sakura's Okasho in the second bell-test is more flashy than the Okasho she uses against Kaguya, that doesn't mean we should throw away the common sense aspect of who Kaguya is and what is means to damage her, in favor of SPII Okasho being stronger than the Okasho Sakura used against Kaguya. To do so would make absolutely no sense. The same is true of your argument about Gai.



What are you referring to  ?

Also again, Madara effortlessly blocked Sakura, got his shit torn apart by Gai's punch despite blocking it.



LostSelf said:


> Narutoforums, you break a featless horn and you are god tier .



Only Turrin thinks that, so no


----------



## Turrin (Aug 22, 2014)

LostSelf said:


> Narutoforums, you break a featless horn and you are god tier .


Narutoforms, you do damage to the sentient god of the Narutoverse and you are still fodder tier


----------



## Hachibi (Aug 22, 2014)

What's Kaguya's Horn feat again? Because Kaguya wasn't injured by Sakura's punch. And no, cutting off a horn isn't a injury since Kabuto didn't feel anything when Itachi cut his'.


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## Turrin (Aug 22, 2014)

Hachibi said:


> What's Kaguya's Horn feat again? Because Kaguya wasn't injured by Sakura's punch. And no, cutting off a horn isn't a injury since Kabuto didn't feel anything when Itachi cut his'.


It took Gai's EE Issoku to crack Madara's horn, and Madara back then was a weakling compared to Kaguya. God-Mode Naruto punch Kaguya upside the head and the horn didn't break. Sasuke attacked Kaguya's head w/ P-Susano'o slash and the horn didn't break. And so on. 

Lopping off a piece of someones body is always an injury. Whether they can endure that injury w/o crying out in pain has no relevance to whether it was an injury or not.


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## Hachibi (Aug 22, 2014)

Turrin said:


> It took Gai's EE Issoku to crack Madara's horn


It was a casual attack and he didn't aim for the horn. It was a  Air Canon that was bigger than his body.



> God-Mode Naruto punch Kaguya upside the head and the horn didn't break


.
He didn't aim for the horn but for her face 



> Sasuke attacked Kaguya's head w/ P-Susano'o slash and the horn didn't break.


Sasuke's PS slash never made contact with her. She repelled it.



> Lopping off a piece of someones body is always an injury. Whether they can endure that injury w/o crying out in pain has no relevance to whether it was an injury or not.



I can agree with this to a extend.


----------



## Cognitios (Aug 22, 2014)

When has Kaguya ever been confirmed as really durable?
Look at her, she screams glass canon.


----------



## Hachibi (Aug 22, 2014)

Cognitios said:


> When has Kaguya ever been confirmed as really durable?
> Look at her, she screams glass canon.



B-but she has Madara's body and alot of chakra


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## Turrin (Aug 22, 2014)

Hachibi said:


> It was a casual attack and he didn't aim for the horn. It was a  Air Canon that was bigger than his body.


Gai hitting the whole body means he also hit the horn. Doesn't matter if he aimed or not. No Issoku is not a casual attack.



> He didn't aim for the horn but for her face


He hit her in the side of the head where the horn is 



> Sasuke's PS slash never made contact with her. She repelled it.


Where is this stated?


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## Hachibi (Aug 22, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Gai hitting the whole body means he also hit the horn. Doesn't matter if he aimed or not. No Issoku is not a casual attack.



Doesn't really matter since 8th gate Gai physical strenght >>>>Sakura's. And Issoku is a casual attack since he can spam it.



> He hit her in the side of the head where the horn is




I only see Naruto hitting her in the cheek.



> Where is this stated?




Here we see Sasuke getting repelled.



Here he say that Susano didn't work.


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## Godaime Tsunade (Aug 22, 2014)

Thinking about it, didn't Madara endure a Hirudora from Gai without sustaining any damage to his horns, even before he took Issoku? 

It stands to reason that Kaguya's horns would be more durable than Madara's, so going by that logic Sakura's punch must have some fucking huge striking power behind it.​​


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## Hachibi (Aug 22, 2014)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Thinking about it, didn't Madara endure a Hirudora from Gai without sustaining any damage to his horns, even before he took Issoku?
> 
> It stands to reason that Kaguya's horns would be more durable than Madara's, so going by that logic Sakura's punch must have some fucking huge striking power behind it.​​



Didn't Madara blocked it with his staff?Because it look like he redirected it to the ground here (tho I may be wrong):


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## Jad (Aug 22, 2014)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Thinking about it, didn't Madara endure a Hirudora from Gai without sustaining any damage to his horns, even before he took Issoku?
> 
> It stands to reason that Kaguya's horns would be more durable than Madara's, so going by that logic Sakura's punch must have some fucking huge striking power behind it.​​



It wasn't a fully released Hirudora, he was just pushed back a few meters (hence the large skidding motion [1]): (Viz translation) Gai didn't even have any broken bones.

Why do people consistently try and shit on Gai when they get the chance? His always the first person people turn to. :shakeshead


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## Ryuzaki (Aug 22, 2014)

Her punch was strong but I think it has do more with Kaguya's loss of an arm and avoiding Sasuke/Naruto. Sakura picked the perfect spot but then again she had no way out either nor did she have any means to block that. Plus, I don't even think she knew how strong the punch would have been.


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## Rocky (Aug 22, 2014)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Thinking about it, didn't Madara endure a Hirudora from Gai without sustaining any damage to his horns, even before he took Issoku?
> 
> It stands to reason that Kaguya's horns would be more durable than Madara's, so going by that logic Sakura's punch must have some fucking huge striking power behind it.​​



Madara was able to rip his own horn casually when he went to cast Infinite Tsukuyomi. 

I'm sorry, but as strong as Jubi Jinchuriki are, I don't think a casual tug from them is stronger than  Hirodura or Sekizo...


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## Garcher (Aug 22, 2014)

I wonder if Sakura was so strong the whole time, why was she so useless? 
Yata Mirror deflects the punch back to her, GG, stops at Itachi's susanoo lel


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## LostSelf (Aug 22, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Narutoforms, you do damage to the sentient god of the Narutoverse and you are still fodder tier



So if cut her hair with some scissors i am god tier?

Breaking a horn is nothing impressive, especially when Sakura already had explosive punches and yet she was far from being even Hashirama's level, wich is fodder tier compared to the big guys.


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## Ashi (Aug 22, 2014)

Cognitios said:


> When has Kaguya ever been confirmed as really durable?
> Look at her, she screams glass canon.



She took Naruto Steam Powered Punch and even blocked 5 clones of his

Nothing about her screams glass cannon whatsoever


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## Hero (Aug 23, 2014)

Wtf is this shit? She simply knocked off a HORN.

Tsunade punched a hole through Madara


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## Turrin (Aug 23, 2014)

LostSelf said:


> So if cut her hair with some scissors i am god tier?
> 
> Breaking a horn is nothing impressive, especially when Sakura already had explosive punches and yet she was far from being even Hashirama's level, wich is fodder tier compared to the big guys.


Considering the feats her hair has you'd be dam strong (or the scissors would be), but Kaguya is the only God-Tier character so not god-tier.


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## Hachibi (Aug 23, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Considering the feats her hair has you'd be dam strong (or the scissors would be), but *Kaguya is the only God-Tier character so not god-tier*.



Technically the Juubi too since it's basically her Bijuu 
But that depend if she flow her chakra to her hair or not? If she does, it's hard, if she doesn't, it's basically normal hair.


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## Trojan (Aug 23, 2014)

Aikuro said:


> I wonder if Sakura was so strong the whole time, why was she so useless?



She was not. 
1- She kept Naruto alive after pulling Kurama out.
2- She is the reason to why obito was able to help Sasuke to come pack
3- She is the one who punched Kaguya so Naruto and Sasuke can seal her.
4- She helped Tsunade to heal all the Alliance and helped her with the summoning.
5- She healed the Allaince before as well when she achieved the seal. 
6- She defeated a lot of the Juubi clones.
7- She was healing Naruto before the Hokages arraive

...etc
Fighting is not the only thing to be "useful"


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## Jagger (Aug 23, 2014)

It's because all of those feats are easily forgotten even by Sakura herself when Sasuke diminishes her efforts and she does nothing to refute him.

That's why people barely take her efforts seriously, Hussain.


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