# Narutoverse Jutsus vs. Avatarverse Bending



## Commander Shepard (Nov 25, 2007)

First:  Narutoverse Ninjutsu power versus Avatarverse bending power.

Second:  Narutoverse Taijutsu(skill only) versus Avatarverse bending skill.

Third:  Narutoverse Genjutsu versus... uh, well, Avatar is rather lacking in the area of mental powers...

Which side is flashier?  Which has more substance?  Which is more powerful?  Which is more useful?  Which is higher quality?  Which is better, overall?


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 25, 2007)

Dude, stop!


----------



## Commander Shepard (Nov 25, 2007)

Fine, fine, I'll stop with the 1 on 1 matchups... but I still want to hear people's opinions on this.


----------



## Clearmoon (Nov 25, 2007)

Apart from Fire bending >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Katons

Naruto takes all three rather easily in all catagories at high jounin level jutsu's and above.

Though Avatar does have some standout techniques.


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 25, 2007)

You serious 
Aang can stop all out volcano eruptions with one airbending move, and both katara and toph use kage level techniques with expending much energy at all...

And appart from Neji, there isn't one good actuall hand to hand fighter in narutoverse..
Yes, even Lee. All his fighting profincency cames from his plot deviced strength and speed..
Avatar wins by the simple fact their martial arts aren't made up!


----------



## Commander Shepard (Nov 25, 2007)

I think these make Firebending not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Katons:

EDIT: Wait, I got confused... > means greater than, < means less than.  I would do the cross-out thing but I've been on various forums for years and never figured out how to do it... does some [] formatting tool do it?

*Spoiler*: _Firebending's Best_ 










And Northern Shaolin Kung Fu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fictional Taijutsu.


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 25, 2007)

Those are pretty much Kage Level Katons according to manga, and they don't expend "chakra"


----------



## Commander Shepard (Nov 25, 2007)

Wait, I got confused... > means greater than, < means less than. I would do the cross-out thing but I've been on various forums for years and never figured out how to do it... does some [] formatting tool do it?


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Nov 25, 2007)

Bender Ninja said:


> First:  Narutoverse Ninjutsu power versus Avatarverse bending power.
> 
> Second:  Narutoverse Taijutsu(skill only) versus Avatarverse bending skill.
> 
> ...



First: Naruto wins. In terms of jutsu's they have a greater variety and or possibility. In short, Avatar don't have Bunshins of any kind or anything well removed from the 4 basic elements. For instances, Orochimaru body techniques, Kiba, Shikamaru, Inu, Shino, etc techs. As a result that lack, Avatar cannot compete at all here. 

Also, saying Katon's are weak is a rather stupid and short cited comment. Itachi's Master katon attack showed itself to be quite powerful. And if we're talking about showings based off how badly people have been burned..... both are rather paltry.

Second: This is the only one without a clear winner, but this is only the case if we think of skill as entirely divorced from speed/power and experience. Avatar gives the impression of having more susbtance because it's based on real martial arts.
Naruto gives the impression of more flash because of the superhuman dependance. However------
If we do a Neji to Tai Lee comparison we see they use essentially the same fighting style. This says alot. In terms of raw hand to hand skill they are considered the peak in their verse, and if we give them the same type of physical attributes, remove byakugan, and divorce Neji of other contexts, they are essentially inter changable. 

Third: This one is pointless. Avatar has nothing to compete against Genjutsu. 


---

Anyway, this thread isn't as bad as the others, I will say, but only the second seems to merit discussion. Um, I will note that by no means should this be some kind of excuse to put the two verses in the same weight class. The below are what seperate Naruto and Avatar even without speed, and why Avatar is simply not in Naruto's league.
Powerurability: Versatility: Standard Gear:in Battle Strategy: Non Elemental Abilties: Basic Training: Extra Chakra basic functions: Item Haxs.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Nov 25, 2007)

Redux-shika boo said:


> Third: This one is pointless. Avatar has nothing to compete against Genjutsu.



I know that.  I believe I pointed out myself in the OP that Avatar has nothing to even enter into the category.  I'm just joking around in that part.

I'll give that ninjutsu is more versatile than Avatar.  But what about raw power, especially when it comes to elemental jutsus?


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Nov 25, 2007)

Bender Ninja said:


> I know that.  I believe I pointed out myself in the OP that Avatar has nothing to even enter into the category.  I'm just joking around in that part.
> 
> I'll give that ninjutsu is more versatile than Avatar.  But what about raw power, especially when it comes to elemental jutsus?



It depends. If we're going by averages Naruto wins Earth, Water, and Lighting. I specifically mean lighting and not fire because in Naruto they aren't the same. 
 Wind I'm not sure. In terms of average
ava=  flashback shots of those air benders and low end aang.
nar= chars able to hence objects for cutting/ cut things. 

Avatar wins fire very, very, easily.

if we're going by highest and or most potent stuff, then Avatar does better. That being said, the comparision I'm thinking of would be divorced from "exhaustiveness".
Note, hard to decide is basically tie and or either one.
Also, below is just a simplified comparison.

Hard to decide = fire = Amaretsu heat potency/ master katon vs Roku Volcano erupting/ Mass Fire spam-
Hard to decide= wind = fuuton potency/ Shuhaku Wind balls/ Forest Leveling vs Tornado creating and such jazzy stuff.

In Avatar Favor= Water = Tsunami control / blood bending/ ice stuff vs Spiting up a lake from nothing / Water Bunshins <<< Note Avatar wins the water cateogry if we don't incude Haku. However, if we include Haku I would just put it as hard to decide but still in Avatar favor.

Naruto wins lighting
Avatar wins Earth.


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Nov 25, 2007)

Battle 1- Naruto is to versitile
Battle 2 - Avatar by far. WAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYY more skill is required


----------



## Commander Shepard (Nov 25, 2007)

Redux-shika boo said:


> It depends. If we're going by averages Naruto wins Earth, Water, and Lighting. I specifically mean lighting and not fire because in Naruto they aren't the same.
> Wind I'm not sure. In terms of average
> ava=  flashback shots of those air benders and low end aang.
> nar= chars able to hence objects for cutting/ cut things.
> ...



Well, yes except... ok but... um...

Well, I can find nothing to disagree with in this post.  Nicely done.


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 26, 2007)

Bender Ninja said:


> I know that.  I believe I pointed out myself in the OP that Avatar has nothing to even enter into the category.  I'm just joking around in that part.
> 
> I'll give that ninjutsu is more versatile than Avatar.  But what about raw power, especially when it comes to elemental jutsus?



Actually, aang can control the flow of chakra through his body quite easly, and because of the fact his final gate was closed, and sealed, one could argue he is imune to genjutsus


----------



## MajorThor (Nov 26, 2007)

Katon Ryuuga No Jutsu > Any Firenation "Bending" in Avalawlverse.

Narutoverse wins.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Nov 26, 2007)

And how does that compete with these?  The difference is not as great as you think.


*Spoiler*: _Firebending's Best_


----------



## MajorThor (Nov 26, 2007)

That was actually Kenpachi powering up...

Then a Katon Ryuuga.

Avalawlverse stands no chance.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Nov 26, 2007)

You neither watch or like Avatar, do you?


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 26, 2007)

what's that jutsu he's talking about


----------



## master bruce (Nov 26, 2007)

*narutoverse in massive stomp.*


----------



## Commander Shepard (Nov 26, 2007)

Your reason?


----------



## MajorThor (Nov 26, 2007)

TheFourthNin said:


> what's that jutsu he's talking about



Link removed

Katon-Ryuuka no justu.

5:05 into the clip


----------



## Chocochip (Nov 27, 2007)

Jiraiya+Gamma when using Katon is much more powerful than any Fire Bending I saw but Fire Bending gives total control but you need your hands to get full control of them.


Battle 1:Naruto in a rapestomp. Henging, Bushins, and basic varieties like these make Naruto in a rapestomp.


Battle 2:Naruto in a rapestomp. They are just too superhuman. This is not barring strength or speed, which allows just plain rape. As far as IF speed was disregarded, which is stupid, then Avatarverse would win.

Battle 3:Narutoverse.


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 27, 2007)

katon a whole verse does not make
Azlulon would snipe jiraya while he does that


----------



## Commander Shepard (Nov 27, 2007)

thegoodjae said:


> Jiraiya+Gamma when using Katon is much more powerful than any Fire Bending I saw but Fire Bending gives total control but you need your hands to get full control of them.
> 
> 
> Battle 1:Naruto in a rapestomp. Henging, Bushins, and basic varieties like these make Naruto in a rapestomp.
> ...



Are you sure that Gama's katon is greater than Roku using firebending simultaneously with other elemental techniques of the same level?

And yes, I already acknowledged Naruto's versatility.  But Avatar has the edge when it comes to raw power.

That's comparing their bodies and powers.  Or are just admitting that taijutsu sucks as a martial art compared to Avatar's bending?

I can't believe people are taking me seriously for #3- it was just a joke.


----------



## Kage no Yume (Nov 27, 2007)

Bender Ninja said:


> First:  Narutoverse Ninjutsu power versus Avatarverse bending power.



Naruto-verse takes this field in both versatility and power.

Versatility is self-explanatory.  The Avatar-verse is limited to the four main elements, while the Naruto-verse has thousands of jutsu with various effects:

Creating forests, covering a large area in mist, clones of every type, jutsu that can seal souls, jutsu to seal items into scrolls, jutsu that gives one a burst of speed, jutsu that causes invisibility, jutsu that can creat a sphere of destructive chakra, jutsu to force sleep, jutsu to heal injuries, jutsu to raise the dead, jutsu to control deadly puppets, poison gas jutsu, various summoning jutsu, henge, regular bunshin, kage jutsu, mind altering jutsu, body altering jutsu, dog based jutsu, bug based jutsu, etc...

And that's not including jutsu from the four main elements, with katon that even you yourself, Bender Ninja, admitted would overpower Zuko's defenses,  black fire that can burn through a fire eating toad's stomach, blowing clouds of flaming ash, creating walls of water from nothing, pulverizing tracks of forests with wind pressure or cutting them down with a powerful summon attack, creating a large cliff and a waterfall out of nowhere,  spitting up a lake, water prisons that can hold even the strongest and versatile fighters, traveling through the ground as if it were water, turning one's arm into a blade that can cut through most anything, channeling lightning-natured chakra in one's immediate area to paralyze one's foes, sending out multiple senbon made of lightning chakra if the swing of an arm, etc...


As for power:  Can anyone other than the Avatar stand against the jutsu multitudes of high level ninja can dish out?

And can the Avatar stand against the strongest of the Naruto-verse:  Bijuu and Pein's nuke jutsu?



> Second:  Narutoverse Taijutsu(skill only) versus Avatarverse bending skill.



Unfortunately, the Naruto-verse doesn't display enough taijutsu to make a proper judgment in this case.  While you can spout that Avatar-verse bending is based on real kung fu all you want, don't downplay the skill of Naruto-verse fighters simply because the mangaka didn't feel like doing the impossible.  For it is incredibly difficult to showcase martial arts of any kind in manga form.  

The only way to do so is to actually devote multiple pages to taijutsu and explanation alone, which is not a central part of Kishimoto's ninja manga.

The only times the taijutsu (not special taijutsu attacks, e.g. ura/omote renge) was the focus of a battle were:

1.  Sasuke vs Kakashi:  Sasuke's feats would be pretty hard for any normal martial artist, given that without enough speed it would be nigh impossible.

2.  Sasuke vs Lee:  A quick exchange, with the impressive feat of Lee pwning Naruto by redirecting his attack.

3.  Hinata vs Neji:  The focus being on jyuuken, which was more explained by Kakashi than shown in the match.  Not only that, but Neji wasn't even trying against Hinata.

4.  Lee vs Kimimaro:  Kimimaro's extremely deadly and efficient dances, as well as the quick combos of Lee's regular style was shown.  As well as Lee's suiken.


Another major problem with this is that most of the taijutsu in the Naruto-verse is heavily reliant (read:  impossible without) the strength and speed of Naruto-verse ninja.  If you cap either of those stats, most of their taijutsu is unusable.  Not because they lack skills, but because their taijutsu was created for people of that level.  

In other words, though one may think their taijutsu to be pathetic skillwise, most of it is impossible for anyone in the Avatar-verse to duplicate.




> Third:  Narutoverse Genjutsu versus... uh, well, Avatar is rather lacking in the area of mental powers...



Then why even mention it ?



> Which side is flashier?  Which has more substance?  Which is more powerful?  Which is more useful?  Which is higher quality?  Which is better, overall?



Flashier?  Naruto.

More Substance?  Avatar.

More Powerful?  Naruto.

More Useful?  Definitely Naruto.

Higher Quality?  Tie IMO.  Avatar had a budget and a team of specialists.  With such resources and the idea of copying martial arts they had better do well.

Kishimoto dedicated himself to researching on how to create an engaging story.  He did an excellent job IMO. 

Better Overall?  
Regarding story:  Naruto.
Regarding fight scenes:  Tie.


----------



## Red (Nov 27, 2007)

First avatar verse powers: In terms of elemental control they're more versatile, the only limit [If we go by lore not feats] is the imagination and will power, seeing as almost everything has air, water, earth and heat [fire benders control heat _and_ flame]. Apart from bushins and genjutsus naruto verse elementals arn't as flexible.

Second: skill wise I think they're equal strength wise naruto is a shounen.


----------



## Nihonjin (Nov 27, 2007)

Naruto > Avatar in everything you stated.
See Kage no Yume's post for the taijutsu part.


----------



## omaruchiha36 (Nov 27, 2007)

with itachi mangekyou , everyone dead. also with pein lol they hve no chance. no offense to the avatar fans.


----------



## Kai (Nov 27, 2007)

TheFourthNin said:


> Avatar wins by the simple fact their martial arts aren't made up!


No, either Avatar or Naruto wins due to individual opinion of interest.


----------



## Chocochip (Nov 27, 2007)

Certain jutsus in Naruto by the big ones like Gaara are much better than Earthbenders.


----------



## Wuzzman (Nov 28, 2007)

Raw power, with no strings attached is almost always Avatar. As far as variety of moves and the different broken ways you can kill someone, always naruto. You have sucking souls, shadow binding, attacks at the molecular level, poisons on the tip of each blade, kunais with bombs attached. 

The real nail bitter is using all that in combination with taijust. Avatar is no slouch, bending is simple a extension of actual martial art style, in which case, real>fictional, since we already know what real martial artist can do. However the Naruto ninja who has above average taijustu reminds me of the top fighters in the Tekkan series. Not tied down to one style, except Neji, but have a variety of moves borrowed from everywhere. You see naruto making use of hand stands to recover, Sasuke using wrestling when his chakra was fucked up. Rock Lee, is a taijustu specialist, that is what grants him his strength. He is like Gutts in Berserk, spending hours praticing the same punches, the same series of kicks, if you really want to say Rock Lee isn't a true blood martial artist then either you didn't see his fight with Kimmaru or you have no business talking in the OBD, there is a thing called common knowledge. 

I say Avatar and Naruto are even at top tiers, since well, it be kinda of a fallacy to say "this style of fighting would soo own that style of fighting" when neither of them fought each other before. The best place to know, is well actually seeing them fight, martial arts is not a spectator type thing were you place bets because of assumed weaknesses.


----------



## Chocochip (Nov 28, 2007)

Every hear of using paragraphs? Makes you seem intelligent.


----------



## Wuzzman (Nov 28, 2007)

thegoodjae said:


> Every hear of using paragraphs? Makes you seem intelligent.



for the most part intelligence has been taken out of Avatar OBD threads. Its like the new starwars


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 28, 2007)

Lee's moves consist of an absolute lack of transitional stanes, defensive manouvers, and next to no punching
Essentially, he's whole fighting stile consist of one spining kick, a bigger spining kick, two spining kicks, and an upwards kick
Except for waterbenders and toph(tai chi and souther praying mantis), any style beats that one with their eyes closed


----------



## Commander Shepard (Nov 28, 2007)

Kage no Yume said:


> Naruto-verse takes this field in both versatility and power.
> 
> Versatility is self-explanatory.  The Avatar-verse is limited to the four main elements, while the Naruto-verse has thousands of jutsu with various effects:
> 
> ...



Yes, I did admit that the strongest katons in the Narutoverse would overpower Zuko.  But he's not the best representative in the Avatarverse.  There are other firebenders who can take any katon- Azula, Roku, Iroh, Sozin, and Ozai, for example.

Black fire- well, Avatar has blue fire!

What do you mean by "clouds of flaming ash"?

Any suiton (except for Kisame's flood) has been matched by the Avatarverse- they just lack the ability to materialize water from nothing (It has been revealed that waterbenders can indeed draw water out of the air, but only very small amounts).

By "pulverizing tracks of forest with wind pressure" do you mean Shukaku?  If so, the Ocean Spirit is on Shukaku's level.

Roku made his own cliff, too.  He just had to use pre-existing earth.

A water prison is more on the side of versatility.

Bumi and Roku can pass through ground effortlessly also.

As for lightning- Avatar's lightning is very limited in its versatility, more so than other forms of bending, so of course Naruto takes that overall.  But Avatar's direct lightning bolt is just as strong as, if not stronger than, a direct lightning attack in Naruto is.

Yes, plenty of characters in Avatar can take higher level Naruto elemental moves- Toph, Katara, Azula, etc.

I will admit that the Naruto superweapons would take out anyone in Avatar, except perhaps Roku.  But then, they'd take out anyone in their own verse with a direct hit, am I right?



> Unfortunately, the Naruto-verse doesn't display enough taijutsu to make a proper judgment in this case.  While you can spout that Avatar-verse bending is based on real kung fu all you want, don't downplay the skill of Naruto-verse fighters simply because the mangaka didn't feel like doing the impossible.  For it is incredibly difficult to showcase martial arts of any kind in manga form.
> 
> The only way to do so is to actually devote multiple pages to taijutsu and explanation alone, which is not a central part of Kishimoto's ninja manga.
> 
> ...



So you're saying they can't be compared?  Nice scapegoat.


----------



## Finn Mac Cool (Nov 28, 2007)

Bender Ninja said:


> So you're saying they can't be compared?  Nice scapegoat.



Pretty much every single character in Naruto has superhuman strength and speed, even pre-skip Sakura, and a lot of Taijutsu attacks are based on that (the Lotus attack is impossible without extreme strength, and 64 Palm Strike is all but impossible without extreme speed).  Characters like Rock Lee or Neji fighting without their superhuman attributes is like having Mai fight without any sort of throwable weapon or Ty Lee fight a long range battle; their fighting styles just weren't designed to work that way.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Nov 28, 2007)

Say Avatar characters were accelerated to Narutoverse speed.  Would the martial arts be comparable then?


----------



## Finn Mac Cool (Nov 28, 2007)

That's a much better way of putting it.  In that case, I'd say that the average Avatar fighter is a better Taijutsu fighter than the average Naruto character, but there are a handful of Naruto character who could hold their own among Avatar's top martial artists (the best being Kimimaro, whose skill at predicting his opponent's lets him evade a hundred attackers at once).


----------



## Ax_ (Nov 29, 2007)

Average as in farmers vs shopworkers?
Or average as in reulgar people vs regular ninjas?


----------



## Commander Shepard (Nov 29, 2007)

I think he means average Avatarverse soldier vs. average Ninja.


----------



## Yak (Nov 29, 2007)

I don't really care, but bending looks at least a thousand times better than the retarded handseals.


----------



## Kage no Yume (Dec 1, 2007)

Bender Ninja said:


> Yes, I did admit that the strongest katons in the Narutoverse would overpower Zuko.  But he's not the best representative in the Avatarverse.  There are other firebenders who can take any katon- Azula, Roku, Iroh, Sozin, and Ozai, for example.



Even Itachi's ground breaking goukakyuu or Jiraiya and Gamabunta's combo?



> Black fire- well, Avatar has blue fire!



That blue fire degrades into regular fire quite quickly.  And could that blue fire do anything against the stomach of a fire-eating toad?  



> What do you mean by "clouds of flaming ash"?



Asuma's katon.



> Any suiton (except for Kisame's flood) has been matched by the Avatarverse- they just lack the ability to materialize water from nothing (It has been revealed that waterbenders can indeed draw water out of the air, but only very small amounts).



I don't know...could any normal waterbender match the power of Zabuza/Kakashi's suiton?



> By "pulverizing tracks of forest with wind pressure" do you mean Shukaku?  If so, the Ocean Spirit is on Shukaku's level.



I was referring to Kakuzu's.



> Roku made his own cliff, too.  He just had to use pre-existing earth.



A jounin in Naruto could do the same (Yamato).



> Yes, plenty of characters in Avatar can take higher level Naruto elemental moves- Toph, Katara, Azula, etc.



I'll have to catch up with Avatar before debating this one .



> I will admit that the Naruto superweapons would take out anyone in Avatar, except perhaps Roku.  But then, they'd take out anyone in their own verse with a direct hit, am I right?



...which is why I said to compare the Avatar (Roku, Avatar mode Aang, etc...) to them.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Dec 1, 2007)

Kage no Yume said:


> Even Itachi's ground breaking goukakyuu or Jiraiya and Gamabunta's combo?



These are character-specific things, not something "multidudes of high-level ninja" can do



> That blue fire degrades into regular fire quite quickly.  And could that blue fire do anything against the stomach of a fire-eating toad?



Nothing, really.  I'll give you this one.  But again, one-of-a-kind ability



> Asuma's katon.



I'm not familiar with this.  Could you post a scan, please?



> I don't know...could any normal waterbender match the power of Zabuza/Kakashi's suiton?



Katara, Roku, Pakku, and Avatar-state Aang could.




> I was referring to Kakuzu's.



Scan, please?




> A jounin in Naruto could do the same (Yamato).



I never said he couldn't.  I was just saying that Roku matches any doton the Narutoverse could muster.



> I'll have to catch up with Avatar before debating this one .







> ...which is why I said to compare the Avatar (Roku, Avatar mode Aang, etc...) to them.



Well, a bijuu is not a _jutsu_, is it?

This isn't Avatarverse power vs. Narutoverse power.  It's bending power vs. jutsu power.


----------



## Kage no Yume (Dec 1, 2007)

Bender Ninja said:


> These are character-specific things, not something "multidudes of high-level ninja" can do



Sorry, but fodder nin in Naruto rarely get screentime at all.  So most of the jutsu portrayed is going to be character specific.  I wish Kishimoto would showcase more regular jounin/chuunin and their jutsu, but he doesn't.



> I'm not familiar with this.  Could you post a scan, please?



Searing ash cloud jutsu:





> Katara, Roku, Pakku, and Avatar-state Aang could.



Avatar state Aang I agree with.  I'm gonna catch up with Avatar before deciding on the rest.



> Scan, please?



Kakuzu's fuuton:




On a side note, Temari's wind based summoning (Kiri kiri mai) was also impressive:







> I never said he couldn't.  I was just saying that Roku matches any doton the Narutoverse could muster.
> 
> Well, a bijuu is not a _jutsu_, is it?
> 
> This isn't Avatarverse power vs. Narutoverse power.  It's bending power vs. jutsu power.



I was just saying that if you're going to use the Avatars' feats as an example, it should only be compared to feats of the top tiers (Bijuu, Pein, etc...).  

The Avatars' bending power is in a different league from those of everyone else in the Avatar-verse (sans the most powerful spirits).


----------



## Commander Shepard (Dec 1, 2007)

Looking at Asuma's katon, it's outdone by Roku and Sozin's firebending.  Zuko, Azula, and Iroh match him, too.

As for the fuutons... well, the only thing I can think of to match it is Aang in the Avatar State.

I agree that Roku's power is in another league from other benders, but his skill in the individual bending forms is not _too_ far from other masters of the forms.


----------



## AlexForest9 (Dec 2, 2007)

avatarverse wins with all four elements


----------



## Ax_ (Dec 2, 2007)

kakashi9897 said:


> avatarverse wins with all four elements



For the love of god, show some scans and stuff to prove that!
You just come in here and say stuff without proving anything!
Do you have any idea how annoying that is!?


----------



## AlexForest9 (Dec 2, 2007)

soory dude, wont do it again ...hehehehe....


----------



## Banhammer (Dec 2, 2007)

Ax_ said:


> For the love of god, show some scans and stuff to prove that!
> You just come in here and say stuff without proving anything!
> Do you have any idea how annoying that is!?



Chill, if he wants to debate, let him, if he wants to spread his opinion, then live and let die!


----------



## Talone (Jan 15, 2008)

*Avatar's Bending Styles vs. Narutoverses Jutsus*

See the title.

*Avatar-verse:*

Firebending - Ability to create and control fire.  Subset abilities include ability to redirect and produce lightning, steam.  Power increases with the sun.

Earthbending - Ability to control and manipulate the earth.  Subset abilities include metalbending.

Waterbending - Ability to control and manipulate water, in all its forms.  Subset abilities include bloodbending, plantbending, healing.  Power increases with the moon.

Airbending - Ability to manipulate the air.  Can be used to form air blades, vortexes, give the user increased running speed and jumping ability, etc.  Can also be used to manipulate air currents in order to fly.

Also, if we were to include the Avatar himself:  The Avatar State - a state which takes the experience of all the previous Avatars and amplifies the bending powers of the user, regardless of experience.  (The Avatar is regarded as the strongest bender in the Avatar-verse)

*Narutoverse*

The Elements in the Narutoverse are Wind, Water, Lightning, Fire, and Earth (Kaze, Suiton, Raiton, Katon, Doton).  All known jutsus included.

And now...the tricky part.  Bloodline jutsus.  I'll include in the poll whether or not you feel bloodline counts, reasoning appreciated.


----------



## Gritz (Jan 15, 2008)

I guess the Naruto jutsus would win out.


----------



## P.I.G (Jan 15, 2008)

Naruto has an element and some nifty illusions over the avatarverse.


----------



## SleepingDeath (Jan 15, 2008)

I choose the second one, though I may be wrong.


----------



## Castiel (Jan 15, 2008)

The Darkhope Fabclub - Viva la Rievolution!!

Hello


----------



## Chocochip (Jan 15, 2008)

Narutoverse for the variety and power.


----------



## Chocochip (Jan 16, 2008)

But 2+2=4


----------



## Ippy (Jan 16, 2008)

This I don't mind, as it's 1 vs. 1 matches that usually degenerate, and also because they're almost always curbstomps in Narutoverse's favor.

@Kisame:


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Jan 16, 2008)

Haterade said:


> This I don't mind, as it's 1 vs. 1 matches that usually degenerate, and also because they're almost always curbstomps in Narutoverse's favor.
> 
> @Kisame:



I would disagree that most of em  were curbs in Narutoverse's favor. What were we debating for, nothing?


----------



## Pintsize (Jan 16, 2008)

Avatar's bending, easily imo. 

The average skilled bender is able to produce more powerful effects than the average skilled bender, and bending is more versatile in almost any situation (not to mention it doesn't require handseals). 

And while bloodlines do give interesting effects, some of them (such as yamato's plant control, and Haku's ice) are available to unskilled benders anyhow. Toph's earthbending vision almost matches the sharnigan for combat and diversity (such as being able to tell when someone is lying), and Katara's bloodbending beats out any Naruto verse bloodline, imo.


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 16, 2008)

in b4 lock


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 16, 2008)

Banhammer said:


> in b4 lock



There isn't any lock, since Haterade has approved of this, it seems.


----------



## Talone (Jan 16, 2008)

I would say that Avatarverse might take this, mainly because their ability to simply manipulate the elements thrown at them at a near complete degree could negate attacks by the Narutoverse (if we included the Avatar).

Plus, like Pintsize said, lack of handseals and versatility.  Roku was shown being able to shoot off all 4 elements in a manner of seconds (In The Avatar and the Firelord).

And if you're facing the Sharingan....use Toph.


----------



## Kisame. (Jan 16, 2008)

Yup toph is >>>> anythign in naruto.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Jan 16, 2008)

I made a topic like this before the ban.


----------



## Fang (Jan 16, 2008)

Kakuzu's Doton allowed him to go into hand to hand combat with a certified building buster like the Nibi Jinchurriki when fully released. His AoE Katons, Fuutons and Raitons are also pretty damn impressive.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Jan 16, 2008)

So, who's OP now... me or Talone?

Anyway, my stance is:  Sheer versatility, Jutsus.  When it comes to elemental moves (which is really all that can be compared)  Avatar is both more versatile, faster(depending on the user) because the motions cause immediate results, whereas jutsus require handseals, and on average more powerful.


----------



## Fang (Jan 16, 2008)

Handseals became irrevelant in Naruto, they're so fast their seemingly executed instantly so that is not the point here.


----------



## Pintsize (Jan 16, 2008)

That's because of the athletic ability, not efficiency of the technique.


----------



## Fang (Jan 16, 2008)

That doesn't change anything, handseals are irrevelant since the end of Part I. They execute ninjutsu almost instantly.

And like I said, Deidara and Kakuzu's ninjutsus are pretty fucking impressive.


----------



## Chocochip (Jan 16, 2008)

Top that off with Naruto jutsus having KBs, genjutsu, ninjutsu that creates elements, summoning, that just means Narutoverse jutsus are just more versatile and overall better.


----------



## Heartgobbler (Jan 16, 2008)

Hmm, I think I am late. Most of what I could say has already been said.

I do enjoy watching Avatar techniques more than Naruto's but thats mostly because they don't waste half the episode on staring at each other 

One interesting comparison I have seen in this thread was Neji vs Ty Lee. Her style seems to be much more to the point; when Neji wants to take his enemy out, he has to strike a long sequence of attacks, cutting off the energy until his enemy cannot move a finger. Ty Lee can achieve the same pretty much with a single move. I don't know how the comparison goes when it comes to killing though (since Ty Lee isn't a killer type. As for gentle fist, we know that it CAN kill with a single blow: we could see it in Hinata's kidnapping flashback)


----------



## Ulfgar (Jan 16, 2008)

Heartgobbler said:


> Hmm, I think I am late. Most of what I could say has already been said.
> 
> I do enjoy watching Avatar techniques more than Naruto's but thats mostly because they don't waste half the episode on staring at each other
> 
> One interesting comparison I have seen in this thread was Neji vs Ty Lee. Her style seems to be much more to the point; when Neji wants to take his enemy out, he has to strike a long sequence of attacks, cutting off the energy until his enemy cannot move a finger. Ty Lee can achieve the same pretty much with a single move. I don't know how the comparison goes when it comes to killing though (since Ty Lee isn't a killer type. As for gentle fist, we know that it CAN kill with a single blow: we could see it in Hinata's kidnapping flashback)



Well, She is hitting pressure points, so it would certainly be lethal.


----------



## Chocochip (Jan 16, 2008)

When it comes to Taijutsu, Ty Lee and Neji are pretty much equal.

Are we counting bloodline abilities such as Sharingan and Byakugan as a jutsu too? If then, it is rape.


----------



## Fang (Jan 16, 2008)

Neji killed Kidoumaru with Jyuuken, despite him having armor on. But that's hand to hand combat, not ninjutsu.


----------



## Chocochip (Jan 16, 2008)

Does it have to be ninjutsus? I thought we are counting all types of jutsus.


----------



## Banhammer (Jan 16, 2008)

Actuall, not made up, carefully planned, acient kung fu>>>>>>>>>fast spin kick that requires you to scream outloud REVERSE KONOHA LOTUS WITH THE POWAH OF YOUTH!!!! first, and GAI SENSEEEEEEEEEI! afterwards


----------



## icemaster143 (Jan 16, 2008)

Both are very versitile but I'll give it to Narutverse Jutsus

Look past elemental manipulations and Jutsus offer so much more IMO.

Childern in the NV can create clones of themselves. take over peoples minds, walk on walls and ceilings, Transform into anything or anyone in an instant, Grow to the size of mountains and summon animals and people anyplace they are at.


----------



## Talone (Jan 16, 2008)

Bender Ninja said:


> So, who's OP now... me or Talone?
> 
> Anyway, my stance is:  Sheer versatility, Jutsus.  When it comes to elemental moves (which is really all that can be compared)  Avatar is both more versatile, faster(depending on the user) because the motions cause immediate results, whereas jutsus require handseals, and on average more powerful.



Hah, OP goes to you, as the threads have been merged.

To Icemaster - You make a good point.  In the elemental realm alone, I feel like Avatarverse would win this, but expand further and Narutoverses Jutsus have more abilities to work with.


----------



## Sensui Namikaze (Jan 17, 2008)

Naruto, Hands Down, at least in most.

I agree with whoever said the lack of diversity in Avatar, 
I don't deny it's awesome, but could in no way compete with naruto

I'll start with the elementals

Lightning- 
This is super limited in avatar, being only quick bolts of it, while the lightning ninjutsu can be developed into an instant-death causing blade of lightning (Raikiri-Lightning Blade)
Naruto, Hands Down.

Water- Dude, Water benders can't do shiz without water around them, and only the most experienced can gather small amounts from nature, while masters of it in naruto (like the 2nd hokage and Kisame) can create lakefulls of it from nothing, and easily make it into weapons and PRISONS! without having to continually move. So again Naruto, Hands down.

Earth- I could actually see Avatar taking this one, all the earth ninjutsu displayed has been pretty much equal to earthbending. but, sense their is water clones, one can only assume their could be earth clones as well, which i assume an earthbender can not achieve. but again, it could easily go to the avatarverse

Wind- Narutoverse, simply because narutoverse can imput their own spiritual energy within the wind, making it stronger. (such as baki's blade of wind, or shikaku's air bullets)

Fire- Dude, Amatesaru, Would DESTROY the avatar fire benders. a 7 day flame hotter than the sun would completely obliterate any blue fire. so yeah. narutoverse.

with this, comes the fact that the a good amount of the skilled ninja can use more than one element, and could use that to their advantage, destroying any regular bender except the avatar with relative ease.

taijutsu,
dude, the gates. at about the fifth gate you can move at the speed of sound.
and by six you have punches that cause spiritual fire to errupt from your fists,
by seven and eight, you would have power well above Tsunade's.
and gaara's sand couldn't keep up with lee.
any bender, WOULD LOSE.

genjutsu,
we've already established that no one could compete with this in avatarverse. except maybe that guru with zenbhuddist awareness and mastery of his inner chakra. considering all genjutsu is, is implanting your chakra into someone else's mind.

and again. things like the reaper death seal and the 4th's teleportation technique.
i'm guessing gamabunta could destroy appa. naruto's ability to create a small army of himself. etc etc. would leave the avatarverse in the dust.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Jan 17, 2008)

> Lightning-
> This is super limited in avatar, being only quick bolts of it, while the lightning ninjutsu can be developed into an instant-death causing blade of lightning (Raikiri-Lightning Blade)
> Naruto, Hands Down.



Well, lightning is limited, but the "quick bolts" you speak of are still lightning fully capable of killing people.  Add that there is a technique capable of redirecting as well, and Iroh does it effortlessly.



> Water- Dude, Water benders can't do shiz without water around them, and only the most experienced can gather small amounts from nature, while masters of it in naruto (like the 2nd hokage and Kisame) can create lakefulls of it from nothing, and easily make it into weapons and PRISONS! without having to continually move. So again Naruto, Hands down.



I admit, when it comes to creating elements, Naruto has Avatar beat in earth and water.  But get a waterbender like Pakku or Katara around a large amount of water, and they can do feats that Naruto is hard-pressed to match.  Show me Naruto water manipulation on the level of pushing around battleships, easily wiping people out with waves, cutting through industrial metal, and large waterspouts.

Let's also not forget that waterbending is the most versatile form of bending, with the ability to change the physical state of matter, plant-bending, healing, plant-draining, air-draining, and blood-bending.



> Earth- I could actually see Avatar taking this one, all the earth ninjutsu displayed has been pretty much equal to earthbending. but, sense their is water clones, one can only assume their could be earth clones as well, which i assume an earthbender can not achieve. but again, it could easily go to the avatarverse



Clones fall more under versatility than raw power.  But yeah, guys like Toph, Bumi, and Roku can hold their own against any expert doton user in Naruto.



> Wind- Narutoverse, simply because narutoverse can imput their own spiritual energy within the wind, making it stronger. (such as baki's blade of wind, or shikaku's air bullets)



Avatarverse airbending destroys catapults, blows up palaces, increases one's speed, can be used as kaiten, allows flight, etc.  I think that airbending is more versatile than wind jutsus.  And actually, "wind swords" do exist in the Avatarverse, but are never shown- Aang just mentions them.



> Fire- Dude, Amatesaru, Would DESTROY the avatar fire benders. a 7 day flame hotter than the sun would completely obliterate any blue fire. so yeah. narutoverse.



Amatesaru can only be used by ONE person.  Hardly works for the rest of the ninja.  On whole, firebending is more precise and effective than katons.

And I doubt that Amatesaru is actually hotter than the sun.  It's likely hyperbole.  Besides, how would Narutoverse people know what's hotter than the sun, since they have never shown any space technology?



> with this, comes the fact that the a good amount of the skilled ninja can use more than one element, and could use that to their advantage, destroying any regular bender except the avatar with relative ease.



By "Skilled Ninja" and "regular bender", can I translate that as "named character" and "fodder bender"?  If so, I agree.  However, taking speed out of the equation, Narutoverse characters would be hard-pressed to beat skilled Avatar characters like Toph, Katara, Azula, etc.



> taijutsu,
> dude, the gates. at about the fifth gate you can move at the speed of sound.
> and by six you have punches that cause spiritual fire to errupt from your fists,
> by seven and eight, you would have power well above Tsunade's.
> ...



What part of "skill only" do you not get?



> genjutsu,
> we've already established that no one could compete with this in avatarverse. except maybe that guru with zenbhuddist awareness and mastery of his inner chakra. considering all genjutsu is, is implanting your chakra into someone else's mind.



Only that the pseudo-zenbuddhism has shown no effect interacting between people's minds.  Avatarverse still has nothing along the lines of mental powers.



> and again. things like the reaper death seal and the 4th's teleportation technique.



That falls under versatility.



> i'm guessing gamabunta could destroy appa. naruto's ability to create a small army of himself. etc etc. would leave the avatarverse in the dust.



Of course Gamabunta would destroy Appa.  However, Appa is hardly the best beast/monster in the Avatarverse.  There are badgermoles, dragons, Wan-Shi-Tong(the owl-monster knowledge spirit of the desert library), Koh the Facestealer, sea serpents, the Ocean Spirit, and Hei-Bei(that panda-monster forest spirit).


----------



## Ax_ (Jan 17, 2008)

This thing is still going on, then?
Tell me, why is it still here, since Genjutsu of Narutoverse is far more versatile and more useful in fights than most stuff Avatarverse has ever displayed.

Anyway, Narutoverse wins, in general utility, with their high end moves, which have far more raw destructive capability, and they can be more flexible with the attacks.

Besides, isn't Deidara an Earth type user?
And that guy managed to create small bombs that can kill basically anyone he wants.

also, this is my 2100th post.
Not sure if I'm that proud of it, though.
Would have preferred my Riku post to be it instead...


----------

