# MS Sasuke vs Pain



## Troyse22 (Sep 22, 2016)

Location: Destroyed Konoha
Distance: 75m
Knowledge: Manga
Restrictions: None
Stipulations: This is post danzo MS Sasuke with full eyesight.


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## Isaiah13000 (Sep 22, 2016)

The Deva Path can probably solo him on it's own to be honest. With all of them they win with negative difficulty.


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## The All Unknowing (Sep 22, 2016)

hmmm... This one's good. As MS Sasuke is supposed to be about even with SM Naruto

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## ARGUS (Sep 22, 2016)

Sasuke stands no chance. Especially if he has no Intel 

 -- paths in formation means any ninjutsu gets absorbed. Genjutsu is inapplicable on these corpses and taijutsu of any form is suicide 

 -- Preta sucks up susanoo, and then the paths rape the drawbacked sasuke by stabbing him with multiple chakra rods

 -- CT one shots


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## Troyse22 (Sep 22, 2016)

ARGUS said:


> -- paths in formation means any ninjutsu gets absorbed. Genjutsu is inapplicable on these corpses and taijutsu of any form is suicide



Care to explain? Ma and Pa trolled them.

Why is Taijutsu suicide? Naruto was able to contend with deva in base with taijutsu, or am I misremembering?

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1


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## The All Unknowing (Sep 22, 2016)

speaking of Deva, does he start powerless for a while from creating that crater, as he did in  manga?


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## ARGUS (Sep 22, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Care to explain? Ma and Pa trolled them.


No they didn't 
Jiriaya had to flee the battlefield to prep that. In a battledome scenario that's already a loss due to BFR 
(Battlefield removal) 

And when Pein knew of their ability, deva alone ended up killin pa before they could do shit 

And no, sasukes visual genjutsu is not sound genjutsu that ma/pa use 
His genjutsu operated by inflicting mental damage, which is null when the paths are dead corpses 


> Why is Taijutsu suicide? Naruto was able to contend with deva in base with taijutsu, or am I misremembering?


Yeah contend with one path 
Sasuke stands zero chance against all 6 of them when even SM jiriaya got wrecked 
Not to mention the drawbacks of MS which dropped sasuke down to fkn danzos level 
6 paths with chakra rods would rip him to shreds

Reactions: Like 1


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## The All Unknowing (Sep 22, 2016)

ARGUS said:


> No they didn't
> Jiriaya had to flee the battlefield to prep that. In a battledome scenario that's already a loss due to BFR
> (Battlefield removal)
> 
> ...


don't both types ultimately work by causing mental damage? Whether through the eyes or ears, they're using one of the 5 senses to attack them mentally


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## ARGUS (Sep 22, 2016)

The All Unknowing said:


> don't both types ultimately work by causing mental damage? Whether through the eyes or ears, they're using one of the 5 senses to attack them mentally


Frog song broke the paths linkage to Nagato which is why it worked.
It basically trapped the paths to another dimension
Unless sasukes genjutsu can do that, his attack won't work

There's also the fact that his genjutsu
 -- can't affect all 6 of them
 --Can be broken by Nagato by transmitting chakra
 --Cannot cause mental damage to corpses
 --cannot work on a superior dojutsu

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Empathy (Sep 22, 2016)

Isaiah13000 said:


> The Deva Path can probably solo him on it's own to be honest. With all of them they win with negative difficulty.



What would Deva do if Sasuke fired an arrow in between his interval, or if he used _Amaterasu _after an arrow is blocked.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ARGUS (Sep 22, 2016)

Empathy said:


> What Deva do if Sasuke fired an arrow in between his interval, or if he used _Amaterasu _after an arrow is blocked.


The arrow isn't prepped instantly either
It always takes time and chakra to form the arrow, and then aim it at the target 
Didn't chakra rods already deflect the arrow? 

Though I do agree that deva can't solo MS sasuke on his own, 
Unless he just goes CT off the bat


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## Empathy (Sep 23, 2016)

If Naruto can chuck two _Rasenshurikens _before the interval is up, I'm sure Sasuke can muster a couple arrows, or an _Amaterasu _after an arrow. I don't recall the arrows in particular ever being specically time consuming to conjure up, at least not more so than _Rasenshuriken. _Of course MS Sasuke would't lose to Deva alone.


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## Troyse22 (Sep 23, 2016)

ARGUS said:


> No they didn't
> Jiriaya had to flee the battlefield to prep that. In a battledome scenario that's already a loss due to BFR
> (Battlefield removal)
> 
> ...



Sasuke doesn't have to prep his genjutsu, that's an advantage right there.

The paths can still suffer mental damage, as proven with the Ma and Pa genjutsu

The paths have never shown to all fight together with Taijutsu, it'd be completely OOC for them to do that.

SM Jiraiya doesn't have V3 Susanoo to protect him.

Drawbacks of MS? You mean the pain/vision loss? I put in the OP that Sasuke has full eyesight.

And are you suggesting that chakra rods will go through V3 Susanoo?


I'm not denying the paths can win, but calling this a stomp by the paths is silly.

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Dislike 1


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## Troyse22 (Sep 23, 2016)

ARGUS said:


> Unless he just goes CT off the bat



Kirin would troll CT. And based on how powerful his opponent is, Sasuke would prep it.

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## Bonly (Sep 23, 2016)

Pain has this in the bag. Sasuke's equal needed Pain to be weaken and deal with the paths that were slowly recovering, was given info during the fight, had Deva down for a while, had multiple summonings out to help, ect. and he pretty much lost had Hinata got involved and even then he just come out the winner by a hair. With Sasuke having no knowledge more or less and having to deal with all six paths at full strength from the get go, Sasuke will simply get overwhelmed sooner or later. Best Sasuke can do is take out a path or two but that's about it though depending on which paths are alive, Nagato can just bring back the paths taken out.


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## ARGUS (Sep 23, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Sasuke doesn't have to prep his genjutsu, that's an advantage right there.


You brought up ma and pa 
I provide an argument regarding it 

They're different types of genjutsu 
Don't Bring something up and then deny it completely 



> The paths can still suffer mental damage, as proven with the Ma and Pa genjutsu


I see that you haven't read my post then 
the paths didn't suffer any mental damage 
They were immobilized since the sound broke their linkage and trapped them into another dimension 



> The paths have never shown to all fight together with Taijutsu, it'd be completely OOC for them to do that.


Against SM jiriaya that was exactly what happened 



> SM Jiraiya doesn't have V3 Susanoo to protect him.


The susanoo is sucked up by Preta
And then this happens 



> Drawbacks of MS? You mean the pain/vision loss? I put in the OP that Sasuke has full eyesight.


 
Doesn't matter if he starts with full eyesight
Once he uses MS abilities, the drawbacks start kicking in 


> And are you suggesting that chakra rods will go through V3 Susanoo?


Not addressing stupidity here
Not sure in what world is susanoo taijutsu  


> I'm not denying the paths can win, but calling this a stomp by the paths is silly.


never called it a stomp


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## ARGUS (Sep 23, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Kirin would troll CT. And based on how powerful his opponent is, Sasuke would prep it.


 
So sasuke can prep the damn thing whilst CT is out there sucking him in


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## Troyse22 (Sep 23, 2016)

ARGUS said:


> You brought up ma and pa
> I provide an argument regarding it
> 
> They're different types of genjutsu
> ...



I wasn't ignoring your argument. I merely said why Sasuke's genjutsu has an advantage over ma and pas, I don't recall denying it.

Scan proving that they suffered no mental damage? Link removed read the first sentence of the overview section

Preta sucks up Susanoo, assuming he can just run in and get close without getting his head chopped off, which would be completely OOC to begin with. Preta runs in, Sasuke notices his Susanoo is getting absorbed, releases it, chops Preta's head off, gg.

The beginning drawbacks of MS won't be big enough for Sasuke to stop fighting.

Susanoo isn't taijutsu, please tell me when I said that, oh wait, I didn't.


You didn't call it a stomp, but you're describing the battle in an A-B-C type of way, where everything goes in favor of Pain, that's bias my friend

Sasuke>Pain in terms of intelligence, we can agree on that right?

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Troyse22 (Sep 23, 2016)

ARGUS said:


> So sasuke can prep the damn thing whilst CT is out there sucking him in



If not Kirin then multiple Susanoo arrows should do the trick

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## Isaiah13000 (Sep 23, 2016)

Empathy said:


> What Deva do if Sasuke fired an arrow in between his interval, or if he used _Amaterasu _after an arrow is blocked.


 What does Sasuke do if the Deva immediately uses the ST it used to one-shot the Gamatrio and send them flying kilometers away from the village?


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## DaVizWiz (Sep 23, 2016)

Without knowledge Sasuke knows nothing about Preta Path, Bansho Tenin, Shinra Tensei, Soul Ripping, Head Laser or Shared Vision.

He'll be killed quickly due to lack of knowledge.

BT+Preta in close should do it quite honestly, SM Naruto was helpless against this offensive combination.

And there's no reason he wouldn't charge in, when he ran into CQC against a Raikage with both bodygurads, and ran into two members of Akatsuki with a normal blade as a significantly weaker version of himself.

There's no need to make a list of how one side counters the other completely when the knowledge stipulates they would walk into their own death before more than half of their techniques are displayed.

Deva out alone would one-shot MS Sasuke at start battle with the ninjutsu destroying (Susano) CST, presuming Sasuke would even react to an invisible, undetectable natural pushing force to activate Susano, though it would be wrecked along with Sasuke.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Troyse22 (Sep 23, 2016)

Isaiah13000 said:


> What does Sasuke do if the Deva immediately uses the ST it used to one-shot the Gamatrio and send them flying kilometers away from the village?



Is instant CT seriously a discussion? Despite it being totally OOC. I can feel the bias towards Pain in the air.


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## Isaiah13000 (Sep 23, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Is instant CT seriously a discussion? Despite it being totally OOC. I can feel the bias towards Pain in the air.


I didn't mention CT.


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## Troyse22 (Sep 23, 2016)

Isaiah13000 said:


> I didn't mention CT.



My bad, read ST as CT. Even if he instant CT's, i'm sure V3 Susanoo would tank it without much difficulty.

gaaaah Edit: Even if he instant ST's******


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## DaVizWiz (Sep 23, 2016)

Tanking it is one thing, how does he get out of it once trapped?

It's a loss if he cannot immediately get out of the restraint, like BFR if you're retrained and no longer a threat you've lost the battle, not that he wouldn't suffocate 3 minutes in anyway.

There's a hole in the bottom of his Susano as well, he'll be crushed once rock compresses in that hole and rolls around his body crushing him.


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## Troyse22 (Sep 23, 2016)

DaVizWiz said:


> Tanking it is one thing, how does he get out of it once trapped?
> 
> It's a loss if he cannot immediately get out of the restraint, like BFR if you're retrained and no longer a threat you've lost the battle, not that he wouldn't suffocate 3 minutes in anyway.



Edited, didn't mean to type what I did.


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## Isaiah13000 (Sep 23, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> My bad, read ST as CT. Even if he instant CT's, i'm sure V3 Susanoo would tank it without much difficulty.


 It left Gamabunta, Gamaken, and Gamahiro all in critical condition without the ability to move. Now imagine if that is all concentrated on a single human body, such as, an unsuspecting Sasuke at the beginning of the match. He won't even know what hit him or have the instinct to activate Susanoo since he'll be one-shotted by an invisible force at the beginning of the match without any warning.


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## Troyse22 (Sep 23, 2016)

Isaiah13000 said:


> It left Gamabunta, Gamaken, and Gamahiro all in critical condition without the ability to move. Now imagine if that is all concentrated on a single human body, such as, an unsuspecting Sasuke at the beginning of the match. He won't even know what hit him or have the instinct to activate Susanoo since he'll be one-shotted by an invisible force at the beginning of the match without any warning.



Once Sasuke obtained MS, he was shown to be insanely MS happy in every battle, it's perfectly in character for him to go into Susanoo immediately.


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## DaVizWiz (Sep 23, 2016)

He didn't go Susano immediately against a Raikage with two bodyguards and would be dead without Gaara's intervention.

He charged with a katana.

He charged with a katana against Killer Bee (Amaterasu, Katon, Chidori Spear), Deidara & Obito (Katon, Snakes, Chidori Spear), and MS Obito (Amaterasu, Susano, Chidori Spear), despite having ranged options.

I don't really see why he'd enter V3 Susano against Deva Path just because he has an Akatsuki cloak and funny eyes.


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## Troyse22 (Sep 23, 2016)

DaVizWiz said:


> He didn't go Susano immediately against a Raikage with two bodyguards and would be dead without Gaara's intervention.
> 
> He charged with a katana.
> 
> ...



It's unclear if he knew how to manifest Susanoo at that moment


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## DaVizWiz (Sep 23, 2016)

My man, he manifested V2 Susano minutes after he charged the Raikage.

Then V3 Susano against Danzo on the same day.


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## Isaiah13000 (Sep 23, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Once Sasuke obtained MS, he was shown to be insanely MS happy in every battle, it's perfectly in character for him to go into Susanoo immediately.


 Okay, so let's say Sasuke does decide to use Susanoo immediately. He'd still be pretty banged up and his Susanoo would be damaged too, and he'll still be left disoriented as he is suddenly flung several kilometers away. Either way, he'll be left open to a follow-up assault by all of the Six Paths of Pain that will result in them easily destroying him no matter which way you slice it.


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## Empathy (Sep 23, 2016)

Isaiah13000 said:


> What does Sasuke do if the Deva immediately uses the ST it used to one-shot the Gamatrio and send them flying kilometers away from the village?



Most of the damage done to them was from tumbling away from the village from being sent so far away the village (not the initial push) so either way _Susanoo _is the answer. It's not like Deva did that to Kakashi, or any other human-sized target ever anyway.

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## Troyse22 (Sep 23, 2016)

Isaiah13000 said:


> Okay, so let's say Sasuke does decide to use Susanoo immediately. He'd still be pretty banged up and his Susanoo would be damaged too, and he'll still be left disoriented as he is suddenly flung several kilometers away. Either way, he'll be left open to a follow-up assault by all of the Six Paths of Pain that will result in them easily destroying him no matter which way you slice it.



Yeah, i've never considered ST to be extremely damaging to a human target, any durable Shinobi would tank one, it's just pressure, it would push a living target far away, but it wouldn't "destroy" them like it would a village. And V3 Susanoo is more durable than the Gamatrio, I think we can agree on that.

At most, Sasuke would be sent flying and Susanoo would brush off the damage.

And where in your mind does Sasuke being sent kilometers away, and then Pein instantly following up with an assault make sense? Unless you're suggesting Pein is a speed demon?

For Pein to win (And it's probable, i'm certainly not disregarding that possibility) it would require a joint assault by the paths, With Animal leading with summons, followed by Preta to absorb Susanoo, followed by Asura or Deva to finish it. But this would require a great deal of strategy and accuracy, something the paths are certainly capable of, but at the same time, Sasuke isn't stupid.

Pein will NOT win this battle by one path doing all the work, Sasuke solos every path individually


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 23, 2016)

Pain using Chibaku Tensei outright is just...wow...apparently everyone forgot that technique isnt exactly pains opener so itd be the definition of OOC, and if he is at all winded its also kinda dangerous for him to use, as for the whole deva path solos thing...Sasukes susanoo (*which is in character for him to use right away for no reason*, he used it to block a simple punch from danzo, id say hed use it pretty quick in a 6v1) was capable of resisting bakus vaccum wind attack thingy against danzo, so its likely if deva goes for BT, sasuke does exactly what he did to the baku summon, susanoo weighs sasuke down so he is unaffected by BT for a moment, sasuke smacks deva with a katon that turbospeeds at deva thanks to his own BT, sasuke could also just use amaterasu leaving deva no time whatsoever to dodge. If deva is still up after using either one sasuke follows up with either a susanoo fist like against danzo, or an arrow that deva cant repel cuz hes on CD.

If the asura path got lolmurderblitzed by SM naruto, its safe to say it cant tank a susanoo fist that turned danzos body into paste two different ways either, meaning susanoos raw power is a problem for spop, as i doubt any of them can tank a hit from it. Ama/Enton is also a 1 shot, as are the arrows which im unsure the paths can even dodge, sasukes arsenal is just plain lethal, he one shots all of animal paths summons with ama, as shown when ama killed off even cerberus when itachi used it. Meaning animal path isnt a big help here either.

MS Sasuke has a good kit to match up against pain because sasuke is a very good mid range fighter with really good 1 hit kill moves he can use at a distance which pain has little counter to, which keeps him out of range of most of spop kit while he spams the paths down, hes also not stupid and has good analytical skills that have earned him praise from minato and madara. Sasuke stays at a distance hammering away at the paths and he will pick up on their abilities as he goes.

Using BT is straight up the worst possible move deva can do, if sasuke puts susanoo up, it weighs him down and he attacks deva with ama and deva is dead. ST doesnt help deva much as it just creates more distance between him and sasuke, *ribcage susanno tanked raikages liger bomb*, its gonna tank the impact of ST just fine, sasuke gets up from the shock wave no worse for wear and proceeds to fire an arrow at deva that he cant repel and is unlikely he can dodge, ama works as well. Summoning doesnt mean jack to sasuke thanks to amaterasu. Asura will likely try to rush sasuke as it seems to be its only strategy and get obliterated by susanoo, as will any other path that tries to get close range, such as preta. Even if preta can eat susanoo, sasuke will realize what he is doing immediately just like jman did, and he would simply use physical attacks, such as his sword to kill off preta as it chows down on susanoo. Ningendo is useless thanks to susanoo, ningendo goes for soul seal, and susanoo introduces ningendo to a very intimate relationship with the ground.

All this said however, imho, sasuke gets killed here. What kills sasuke here is that he has no knowledge, unlike sm naruto who basically had full barring CT. Meaning sasuke needs to waste a lot of time and stamina deducing the best ways to handle each path, whereas naruto knew as soon as he got to the battle. Without knowledge, the Naraka path is by far sasukes biggest problem, as *it is arguably anyone's biggest problem* if they fight pain with no knowledge, proven when pain used it to turn the tables on jman. Sasuke can deal with most of the other paths easily enough with straight up brute force, as i stated above, but while he knocks down the pains 1 by 1, narak is just running atround the battlefield picking up the pieces of its dead pals and bringing em back for sasuke to deal with yet again.

This *will happen*, as nagato keeps naraka the most protected in every formation, so sasuke wont get a chance to kill it early because he will simply have no idea *he* *needs* to target it first or he has already lost. So once naraka helps up any of its buddies, sasuke is in trouble, and will definitely get outlasted as he needs to use high level techniques to wear pain down. If pain simply undoes sasukes progress with naraka, its over.

It goes down like this imo, fight starts, asura rushes sasuke, sasuke immediately pops susanoo as its not OOC for him to do so and 1 shots asura. Fight proceeds and sasuke downs likely around 2 more bodies, probably preta and ningendo as they can only affect sasuke from short range which gets them in range of being lolmurked by susanoo. Naraka by this point has fixed asura and proceeds to fix the others sasuke has dealt with, sasuke by this point is very winded and cant keep up with 6 bodies anymore and gets overwhelmed.

Conventionally, pain is unbeatable without knowledge, its that simple. Jman died cuz he knew nothing, pain basically said as much, sure he learned a lot about pain in the fight, but its useless cuz by the time u have learned anything, ur exhausted and cant make use of it very well, so u get overwhelmed. Sasuke would have a chance here if you gave him knowledge on naraka and deva ONLY, the rest have abilities that can be easily figured out or are straight up negated by sasukes kit. Ningendo is scary sure, but negated *entirely* by susanoo, hell sasuke could get the damn path to murk itself if he coated his susanoo in enton, its just a fact MS sasuke has good counters to the paths, animal is useless, asura doesnt amount to much, ningendo gets trolled, preta is the most useful outside deva and naraka but still sasuke would figure out what its doing and fight around it.

With knowledge on even *just naraka and deva*, and sasuke has a fighting chance, as right out the gate hed just amaterasu naraka and its dead, then its just a matter of figuring out deva as he is the only real threat. However, if CT is used, sasuke dies, plain and simple, in any scenario, he just cant counter it.












*Spoiler*: _Kakashi getting up after ST hits him, all but shrugs off the damage, Compared to raikages liger bomb which is casually tanked by sasukes ribcage susanoo, so it should be able to tank ST as well_

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## The All Unknowing (Sep 23, 2016)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Pain using Chibaku Tensei outright is just...wow...apparently everyone forgot that technique isnt exactly pains opener so itd be the definition of OOC, and if he is at all winded its also kinda dangerous for him to use, as for the whole deva path solos thing...Sasukes susanoo (*which is in character for him to use right away for no reason*, he used it to block a simple punch from danzo, id say hed use it pretty quick in a 6v1) was capable of resisting bakus vaccum wind attack thingy against danzo, so its likely if deva goes for BT, sasuke does exactly what he did to the baku summon, susanoo weighs sasuke down so he is unaffected by BT for a moment, sasuke smacks deva with a katon that turbospeeds at deva thanks to his own BT, sasuke could also just use amaterasu leaving deva no time whatsoever to dodge. If deva is still up after using either one sasuke follows up with either a susanoo fist like against danzo, or an arrow that deva cant repel cuz hes on CD.
> 
> If the asura path got lolmurderblitzed by SM naruto, its safe to say it cant tank a susanoo fist that turned danzos body into paste two different ways either, meaning susanoos raw power is a problem for spop, as i doubt any of them can tank a hit from it. Ama/Enton is also a 1 shot, as are the arrows which im unsure the paths can even dodge, sasukes arsenal is just plain lethal, he one shots all of animal paths summons with ama, as shown when ama killed off even cerberus when itachi used it. Meaning animal path isnt a big help here either.
> 
> ...


as far as the red text, I can't really say one-shotting one body means the 5 bodies are as brittle, after watching Naruto take one out without contact. Then in KCV2, smashing Deva into the ground like a nail with a huge chunk of earth without even dirtying his robe


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## Android (Sep 23, 2016)

Tendo solo's 
Together the paths  Sasuke .
And No , aside from the fact that SM Naruto is stonger than MS Sasuke , SM Nardo was a better match up to Pain , than what Sauce would be .
- Frog Kumite that bypass shared vision + Superior CQC and Taijutsu .
- Senjutsu chakra that if absorbed = turned to stone .
- Summons and clones for diversion .
- SM actually heals the user according to Fukasku , instead of putting a strain on him , that's why base Naruto was able to keep up with Tendo in CQC even after losing SM .
- More powerful Ninjutsu + audio attacks (Frog call)

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## Troyse22 (Sep 23, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Yeah, i've never considered ST to be extremely damaging to a human target, any durable Shinobi would tank one, it's just pressure, it would push a living target far away, but it wouldn't "destroy" them like it would a village. And V3 Susanoo is more durable than the Gamatrio, I think we can agree on that.
> 
> At most, Sasuke would be sent flying and Susanoo would brush off the damage.
> 
> ...





cctr9 said:


> Tendo solo's
> Together the paths  Sasuke .
> And No , aside from the fact that SM Naruto is stonger than MS Sasuke , SM Nardo was a better match up to Pain , than what Sauce would be .
> - Frog Kumite that bypass shared vision + Superior CQC and Taijutsu .
> ...


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## Android (Sep 23, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


>


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 23, 2016)

If Sasuke starts out like started out against Danzo, Susano'O + amaterasu then he will take down 2 or 3 paths right off the bat. And in a perfect world Sasuke could defeat the crucial bodies initially before Pain could fall back on his big guns, but the likehood of Pain playing it safe, ressurecting the dead bodies and going for CT or CST is probably more likely.

But Sasuke definitely wins under  the conditions that were given to Naruto(full knowledge + back up + Deva cooldown + chance to ambush Asura before the fight begun). Not sure if there was an agenda here, but I needed to point that out.

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## Android (Sep 23, 2016)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> But Sasuke definitely wins under the conditions that were given to Naruto(full knowledge + back up + Deva cooldown + chance to ambush Asura before the fight begun). Not sure if there was an agenda here, but I needed to point that out.


 


Grimmjowsensei said:


> chance to ambush Asura before the fight begun

Reactions: Funny 1


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## hbcaptain (Sep 23, 2016)

Pain wins high diff.

4/6 avatars have no counter to Amaterasu/Enton (especially Enton).

Deva can push Amaterasu using ST and Gakidou can aborb it. Basically tho only factors are Tendo and pretha paths, the others will get slaughtered.

In other hands, Deva path become a lot stronger when other avatars are killed/desactivted. So strong that even Fukasaku and SM Naruto can't physically react to his BT (Kakashi's clone easily reacted to Tendo/avatars ativated) and even GamaBunta can't handle his ST (Kakasi tanked his ST with ease when other paths were activated).

But Sasuke isn't weak eighter, pretha path can't react to Susano'o arrow and he can't absorb it eighter (if all absorption Jutsu failed then Pain will obviously fail). If Sasuke managed to understand ST's limits then he might win more times than not else he loses. But I think if the fight hapens, Kishi will simply draw Sasuke beeing stabbed with black rods after a super fast BT.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 23, 2016)

cctr9 said:


>





Look mom I'm shitposting.

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## Android (Sep 23, 2016)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Look mom I'm shitposting.


K

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## JiraiyaFlash (Sep 23, 2016)

Sasuke is all about ninjutsu and dojutsu and these are nothing against Pain. So this is a missmatch. He is die terribly.

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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 23, 2016)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> If Sasuke starts out like started out against Danzo, Susano'O + amaterasu then he will take down 2 or 3 paths right off the bat. And in a perfect world Sasuke could defeat the crucial bodies initially before Pain could fall back on his big guns, but the likehood of Pain playing it safe, ressurecting the dead bodies and going for CT or CST is probably more likely.
> 
> But Sasuke definitely wins under  the conditions that were given to Naruto(full knowledge + back up + Deva cooldown + chance to ambush Asura before the fight begun). Not sure if there was an agenda here, but I needed to point that out.



Pretty much exactly what i was saying only much more concise and way easier to read lol. Susanoo is a vicious counter to spop, half of the bodies are useless outside of close combat, meaning they get close and susanoo squashes them into the carpet, and none of the bodies are fast enough to dodge ama and i doubt they can dodge the arrows either, susanoo, ama, and arrows are all also things sasuke shamelessly spams, meaning big trouble for pain. But pains resurrection ability is what cripples sasuke in this fight, combined with no knowledge aside from what he picks up as he goes along, expending stamina the entire time, sasuke loses.

MS is a better counter to pain than SM imo tho, MS has abilities meant for outright killing your opponent in one shot from a mid ranged distance and these abilities are difficult if not impossible to avoid, plus susanoo is no joke in close quarters either, sasuke is also capable of spamming these abilities. SM on the other hand, or at least as naruto uses it, is almost entirely close range which is a bad idea against half of pains bodies, frog kumite(close) senpo COR(close) Rasengan barrage(close), only ranged attack naruto has is FRS and he is restricted in its use, naruto is also limited in the number of clones he can initially make and cannot spam any of his abilities as they use up too much sage chakra.

With the scenario naruto had, given to sasuke, i see him pulling out a win rather easily. He knows what each path can do and deva is on cooldown, meaning right out the gate, sasuke amas deva and he amas naraka, or he arrows them, and its gg. The rest of the bodies mean jack to sasuke, animal paths summons get 1 shotted by black flames, ningendo is megatrolled by susanoo with either black flames coating it or just straight up squashes ningendo, asura gets 1 shotted by a susanoo fist just like he got 1 shotted against narutos fist, preta is all thats left and falls rather quickly on its own. With  deva dealt with while its helplessly on CD, sasuke doesnt have to worry about CT which is his biggest threat, and with naraka dead its now a question of "how long can sasuke keep susanoo up?" which as he proved against danzo is quite a long time, so he outlasts the remaining bodies while 1 shotting them along the way.

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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 23, 2016)

emanthespriggan1234 said:


> Lol sasuke gets wrecked
> *Tendo and human solos*: Bt+soul rip gg or Ct gg



By definition, i do not think its possible for *Two* people to *solo* anything, as by dint of there being two people, they are not solo at all lol.


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## Muah (Sep 23, 2016)

You cant really beat pein without alot of pure raw power. As strong as they were naruto could beat them with taijutsu. Sasuke doesnt have that raw power.

Nobody could really beat all 5 pein paths except maybe the raikage. Naruto didnt even get through all five paths at once.


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## Arles Celes (Sep 23, 2016)

Depends on knowledge and preparation.

If Pain is at full power and Sasuke knows nothing about him then he wastes Amaterasu at least twice before he notices that it can be repelled by ST and absorbed by Preta. Genjutsu would likely be dispelled via partner method.

If Pain is with Deva losing his power for a time and Sasuke having knowledge plus summoning Aoda and changing the weather to use Kirin quickly then things could be less one sided. If he used his Susanoo arrows to quickly take out the Naraka Pain and quickly deal with Preta before he can cause trouble in the long run then his situation wouldn't be so bad. Amaterasu can defeat Cerberus and other summons easily enough while Aoda could keep Asura Path busy. I do not see Animal Pain handling neither Susanoo arrows nor Amaterasu either since it was the only Path that couldn't dodge Naruto's FRS. So if Sasuke played his cards right he could weaken Pain to just Deva and Asura by the time the former regained his powers. Then its a matter of whether Susanoo can withstand ST or not. Would it push it away or dissipate it like it did with FRS? I do not see Asura being much of a threat while Sasuke is in Susanoo though with his chakra possibly running low after spamming MS jutsus against all previous Pains it might be difficult to keep Susanoo active for much longer. And Asura is quite stubborn and durable. Sasuke can still use Kirin with even very low chakra as shown against Itachi. So a combo of Susanoo arrows plus Kirin to take advantage of Deva's 5 second limit could give Pain plenty of trouble.

Still, Deva got CT which even 6Tailed Naruto's mini bijuudamas were unable to break through. I do not see Kirin as powerful enough especially as it would in first place be unable even to target the CT's core from the inside as it falls from the sky. So the moment Deva uses this jutsu Sasuke got hardly many options left.

I see Pain winning the first scenario with low difficulty and winning the 2nd with high to very high difficulty(depending on how ST works on Susanoo)


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## Isaiah13000 (Sep 23, 2016)

Empathy said:


> Most of the damage done to them was from tumbling away from the village from being sent so far away the village (not the initial push) so either way _Susanoo _is the answer. It's not like Deva did that to Kakashi, or any other human-sized target ever anyway.


 Sasuke and his Susanoo are still going to be sent flying kilometers away like a ragdoll so it doesn't matter. Susanoo doesn't protect the user from everything, they can still be hurt and feel some of the force of attacks while inside of it as shown already. Also, the Deva Path wasn't trying to kill any of those human targets unlike in this situation.



Troyse22 said:


> Yeah, i've never considered ST to be extremely damaging to a human target, any durable Shinobi would tank one, it's just pressure, it would push a living target far away, but it wouldn't "destroy" them like it would a village. And V3 Susanoo is more durable than the Gamatrio, I think we can agree on that.


 Yet it basically one-shotted Kakashi, Choza, Choji, and those other fodder the instant Pain got serious and had enough of their shit. 



> At most, Sasuke would be sent flying and Susanoo would brush off the damage.
> 
> And where in your mind does Sasuke being sent kilometers away, and then Pein instantly following up with an assault make sense? Unless you're suggesting Pein is a speed demon?


 I find it extremely hard to believe that MS Sasuke's Susanoo will brush off the damage so casually when it got busted open by Danzo's Futon. Also, the Paths can easily cross the distance with the Animal Path's summons.



> For Pein to win (And it's probable, i'm certainly not disregarding that possibility) it would require a joint assault by the paths, With Animal leading with summons, followed by Preta to absorb Susanoo, followed by Asura or Deva to finish it. But this would require a great deal of strategy and accuracy, something the paths are certainly capable of, but at the same time, Sasuke isn't stupid.
> 
> Pein will NOT win this battle by one path doing all the work, Sasuke solos every path individually


 I think that due to Pain being such an old villain at this point, that people seem to forget how ridiculously powerful he was. A Sage Mode Naruto with two additional uses of Sage Mode, with the assistance of Fukasaku, Shima, and the Gamatrio all fighting together with some knowledge on Pain were still *unable to defeat FIVE out of the Six Paths of Pain while the main Pain was exhausted and unable to use any of it's abilities and had NO KILLING INTENT against Naruto.* The Deva Path, pretty much single-handedly, the instant his powers were restored completely dominated the whole gang and defeated them regardless of the many advantages they had. Thinking that an MS Sasuke can beat Pain on his own with even less knowledge against all Six Paths of Pain at full power with killing intent is ridiculous. He will get completely and utterly trashed.

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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 23, 2016)

Susano'O will anchor itself to the ground like Kn6 did and it will withstand most of ST. St won't do shit to Susano'O unless it is like a point blank CST or something.

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## Sapherosth (Sep 23, 2016)

Susano arrow can probably take out a few paths. The only ones with a counter is Preta and Deva.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Troyse22 (Sep 23, 2016)

Isaiah13000 said:


> Sasuke and his Susanoo are still going to be sent flying kilometers away like a ragdoll so it doesn't matter. Susanoo doesn't protect the user from everything, they can still be hurt and feel some of the force of attacks while inside of it as shown already. Also, the Deva Path wasn't trying to kill any of those human targets unlike in this situation.
> 
> Yet it basically one-shotted Kakashi, Choza, Choji, and those other fodder the instant Pain got serious and had enough of their shit.
> 
> ...



It's easier to kill someone than it is to bring them within an inch of their life.

The Deva path counters Naruto's arsenal pretty handily, and at this point in time he has no true defense unless it's like uncontrolled KN4+...While SM Naruto>MS Sasuke, Sasuke is a better match for Pein with killing intent. And Danzo's Futon had tons of piercing power, it's not the blunt, brute force that ST is. 

It's not that we forget how powerful Pein was, it's that he's not insanely powerful to begin with. Nagato alone is a powerhouse, but the paths are pretty weak in comparison to him. I don't know why it's hard to believe Sasuke's Susanoo can brush off the damage, when Itachi's V3 was able to tank Kirin (although it pushed it to its absolute limit) without Yata mirror interfering, unless you're suggesting ST>Kirin in terms of single target damage, which is foolish.

Sasuke was also noted to have better control over MS techniques than Itachi ever did. Sasuke's chakra reserves are also monolithic in comparison to Itachi's. Sasuke's susanoo was able to handle Baku's suction, only moving a little bit if at all. I don't see him being blasted several kilometers by a casual ST. 

I don't recall Deva one shotting Kakashi, wasn't that Asura? And Choza borders on fodder, he was surpassed by War Arc Choji. Choji wasn't one shotted? Idk wtf you're saying. So killing fodder is an indication of strength? Oh battledome, how you disappoint.

Sasuke one shotted fodder Samurai with low diff before he even used Susanoo, guess that means he's the strongest shinobi in the narutoverse. You can't use killing fodder as an indication of true power, if we do that then Hinata is on par with Edo Madara because she was trolling White Zetsus.

Sasuke isn't being sent far away inside his Susanoo via ST, at best he flies back and slams into the sides of the craters of the village and tanks it with almost no damage to him, if any at all.


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## Android (Sep 23, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Sasuke is a better match for Pein with killing intent.


How the hell is Sasuke a better match for Pain ??


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## Lord Aizen (Sep 23, 2016)

Animal path alone will exhaust sasuke to an extent, he doesn't have the stamina to last. Animal path sends a summoning at sasuke one by one while asura path fires missiles at sasuke and hes going to have to keep firing off amaterasus and use susanoo. After using amaterasu over and over he'll be too tired to keep susanoo up. This fight will be 10x more tiring than against danzo and he barely made it against danzo

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## Troyse22 (Sep 23, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> How the hell is Sasuke a better match for Pain ??



Susanoo and Amaterasu mainly.


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## Icegaze (Sep 23, 2016)

Pain low diff 
One sided battle

Reactions: Like 2


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## Android (Sep 23, 2016)

@Troyse22 , Naruto needs to move down 2 places in your tier list 


Troyse22 said:


> Susanoo and Amaterasu mainly.


Gakido Tendo , and those black receivers kind of trolls both of them


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## Android (Sep 23, 2016)

Also what if Pain catches him and sucks his chakra dry like they did to SM Naruto ?


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## Isaiah13000 (Sep 23, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> It's easier to kill someone than it is to bring them within an inch of their life.
> 
> The Deva path counters Naruto's arsenal pretty handily, and at this point in time he has no true defense unless it's like uncontrolled KN4+...While SM Naruto>MS Sasuke, Sasuke is a better match for Pein with killing intent. And Danzo's Futon had tons of piercing power, it's not the blunt, brute force that ST is.


 Okay, it's true that Danzo's Futon utilized a different type of damage but Shinra Tensei is significantly more powerful. I disagree with MS Sasuke being a better match, he is much less suited for dealing with Pain.



> It's not that we forget how powerful Pein was, it's that he's not insanely powerful to begin with. Nagato alone is a powerhouse, but the paths are pretty weak in comparison to him. I don't know why it's hard to believe Sasuke's Susanoo can brush off the damage, when Itachi's V3 was able to tank Kirin (although it pushed it to its absolute limit) without Yata mirror interfering, unless you're suggesting ST>Kirin in terms of single target damage, which is foolish.


 Except, Pain is indeed insanely powerful. Nagato is even more powerful, but the Six Paths of Pain are still incredibly formidable in their own right with the capability of defeating 90% of the characters in this series. Also, we don't even know what version of Susanoo that Itachi used to protect himself but it got completely destroyed so that's not really the best example. Kirin's raw destructive power may be greater in that instance but Shinra Tensei pushes away and disperses things, it could probably flat-out disperse his Susanoo akin to how the Baku was sucking Sasuke's Susanoo away from him. 



> Sasuke was also noted to have better control over MS techniques than Itachi ever did. Sasuke's chakra reserves are also monolithic in comparison to Itachi's. Sasuke's susanoo was able to handle Baku's suction, only moving a little bit if at all. I don't see him being blasted several kilometers by a casual ST.


 The ST that Pain used on the Gamatrio wasn't a casual ST, it was one of the stronger ones. If the Baku was pulling Sasuke's Susanoo away from him then that Shinra Tensei shouldn't have a problem blowing his Susanoo away, or Pain could simply use Bansho Tennin to pull Sasuke out of it and then fire a bunch of black receivers into him and the fight is already over. 



> I don't recall Deva one shotting Kakashi, wasn't that Asura? And Choza borders on fodder, he was surpassed by War Arc Choji. Choji wasn't one shotted? Idk wtf you're saying. So killing fodder is an indication of strength? Oh battledome, how you disappoint.


 When Kakashi, Choza, and Choji were about to inflict damage on the Deva the Asura leaped in the way to protect him, and then the Deva used a ST to place Kakashi and Choza in critical condition whilst Choji was only okay because his dad protected him at the last second. Everyone else was either dead or left on the brink of death, and that was still a weaker variant than the one Pain used on the Gamatrio.



> Sasuke one shotted fodder Samurai with low diff before he even used Susanoo, guess that means he's the strongest shinobi in the narutoverse. You can't use killing fodder as an indication of true power, if we do that then Hinata is on par with Edo Madara because she was trolling White Zetsus.


 All I was doing is emphasizing how it has the ability to one-shot regular humans.



> Sasuke isn't being sent far away inside his Susanoo via ST, at best he flies back and slams into the sides of the craters of the village and tanks it with almost no damage to him, if any at all.


 The only individual who showed the capacity to overpower Shinra Tensei and send it back at Pain is V2 Six-Tailed Naruto, who is much stronger than MS Sasuke as well.

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## Troyse22 (Sep 23, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> Naruto needs to move down 2 places in your tier list



That's your opinion, I mean, it's wrong, but it's your opinion.



cctr9 said:


> Gakido Tendo , and those black receivers kind of trolls both of them



nah


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## Android (Sep 23, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> That's your opinion, I mean, it's wrong, but it's your opinion.


Naruto stronger than Kaguya ? Hagoromo ? Smfh 


Troyse22 said:


> nah


Best argument ever 
Proud of ya !

Reactions: Like 2


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## Troyse22 (Sep 23, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> Naruto stronger than Kaguya ? Hagoromo ? Smfh


Cool opinion man.



cctr9 said:


> Best argument ever
> Proud of ya !



There comes a time when your statements aren't worth a serious debate 



Isaiah13000 said:


> Okay, it's true that Danzo's Futon utilized a different type of damage but Shinra Tensei is significantly more powerful. I disagree with MS Sasuke being a better match, he is much less suited for dealing with Pain.



Care to explain why SM Naruto is more suited than MS Sasuke to fight Pain?

You and @cctr9 seem to be so sure that SM Naruto is better suited, but provide no argument as to why



Isaiah13000 said:


> Except, Pain is indeed insanely powerful. Nagato is even more powerful, but the Six Paths of Pain are still incredibly formidable in their own right with the capability of defeating 90% of the characters in this series



Pain gets trolled by anyone above SM Jiraiya.



Isaiah13000 said:


> lso, we don't even know what version of Susanoo that Itachi used to protect himself but it got completely destroyed so that's not really the best example.



V3



Isaiah13000 said:


> The ST that Pain used on the Gamatrio wasn't a casual ST, it was one of the stronger ones. If the Baku was pulling Sasuke's Susanoo away from him then that Shinra Tensei shouldn't have a problem blowing his Susanoo away, or Pain could simply use Bansho Tennin to pull Sasuke out of it and then fire a bunch of black receivers into him and the fight is already over.



Susanoo would follow Sasuke. And i said at best Sasuke would be sent flying a few hundred meters and suffer no damage.

And the Gamatrio are borderline autistic, ofc they got wrecked by ST, they have no defensive capabilities...Sasuke has V3 Susanoo.

Unless you're suggesting Gamatrio durability=V3 Susanoo?

I don't recall Sasuke getting pulled out of his Susanoo in the Danzo fight.....

Scan? Or is that just a baseless argument?



Isaiah13000 said:


> When Kakashi, Choza, and Choji were about to inflict damage on the Deva the Asura leaped in the way to protect him, and then the Deva used a ST to place Kakashi and Choza in critical condition whilst Choji was only okay because his dad protected him at the last second



Scans?




Isaiah13000 said:


> The only individual who showed the capacity to overpower Shinra Tensei and send it back at Pain is V2 Six-Tailed Naruto, who is much stronger than MS Sasuke as well.



Stronger yes, more durable, no.


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## Jikaishin (Sep 23, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> Naruto stronger than Kaguya ? Hagoromo ? Smfh
> 
> Best argument ever
> Proud of ya !



Nah the most shoking thing is Kinshiki > Madara, how do you even come to this conclusion ?

even if Naruto > Kaguya was hilarious

Pain curb stomp Sasuke, not worth debating

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Android (Sep 23, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Cool opinion man.


Oh boy 


Troyse22 said:


> There comes a time when your statements aren't worth a serious debate


 The irony 


Troyse22 said:


> Care to explain why SM Naruto is more suited than MS Sasuke to fight Pain?
> 
> You and @cctr9 seem to be so sure that SM Naruto is better suited, but provide no argument as to why


 
I already explained why in a previous post 


cctr9 said:


> And No , in addition to the fact that SM Naruto is stonger than MS Sasuke , SM Nardo was a better match up to Pain , than what Sauce would be .
> - Frog Kumite that bypass shared vision + Superior CQC and Taijutsu .
> - Senjutsu chakra that if absorbed = turned to stone .
> - Summons and clones for diversion .
> ...


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## Android (Sep 23, 2016)

Jikaishin said:


> Nah the most shoking thing is Kinshiki > Madara, how do you even come to this conclusion ?
> 
> even if Naruto > Kaguya was hilarious
> 
> Pain curb stomp Sasuke, not worth debating


What can i say , the guy's full of surprises


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## Isaiah13000 (Sep 23, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> Care to explain why SM Naruto is more suited than MS Sasuke to fight Pain?
> 
> You and @cctr9 seem to be so sure that SM Naruto is better suited, but provide no argument as to why


Because he has superior firepower, superior reflexes, superior physical prowess and taijutsu, smoke bombs to block Pain's LoS, a potent healing factor, sensory perception, ect.





> Pain gets trolled by anyone above SM Jiraiya.


 Baseless.





> V3


 Source?





> Susanoo would follow Sasuke. And i said at best Sasuke would be sent flying a few hundred meters and suffer no damage.
> 
> And the Gamatrio are borderline autistic, ofc they got wrecked by ST, they have no defensive capabilities...Sasuke has V3 Susanoo.
> 
> Unless you're suggesting Gamatrio durability=V3 Susanoo?


 I never said that, but based on what Sasuke's Susanoo has shown, it's not going to be enough to defend him from ST.



> I don't recall Sasuke getting pulled out of his Susanoo in the Danzo fight.....
> 
> Scan? Or is that just a baseless argument?


 His Susanoo was clearly being pulled away from him by the Baku's suction abilities, and he felt the need to defend himself against Danzo's other Futon during their battle to prevent being blown back by it. If Danzo and his Baku's Futon are capable of pushing away and sucking in Sasuke's Susanoo, then Shinra Tensei and Bansho Tennin will demolish it.





> Scans?


 









> Stronger yes, more durable, no.


 You make this too easy. 




Yeah, both his strength, speed, durability, and firepower completely outclass MS Sasuke.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Android (Sep 23, 2016)

Isaiah13000 said:


> smoke bombs to block Pain's LoS



That was Shima's Senpō: Fūton Sunabokori. not smoke bombs .


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## Isaiah13000 (Sep 23, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> That was Shima's Senpō: Fūton Sunabokori. not smoke bombs .


 
That's what I'm talking about.

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## DaVizWiz (Sep 23, 2016)

Rasengan does just fine for that.
Link removed

Edit: shit Isaiah you beat me to the punch

Susano wouldn't be put up against ST without knowledge anyway. It's invisible and Sasuke is facing a single opponent he knows nothing about other than weird eyes and an Akatsuki cloak, highly OOC for him to start with Susano against an opponent he knows nothing about.

Frog Trio ST is only the start for Tendo, if that doesn't bring him down he'll just hit him with CST which absolutely would annhilate his V3 Susano and vaporize Sasuke.

ST has ninjutsu-destroying properties, it's not just a push, it completely destroyed Raiton Wolf and FRS on contact, and they were the smallest bursts of ST displayed on panel, neither even cracked the ground as both Ninjutsu were vaporized into thin air.

Susano is a Ninjutsu, it's visible chakra just like Raiton Wolf or FRS.

Concentrated CST, not one fired from multiple kilometers in the sky downward and spread out, one fired on the ground at close range pointed toward Sasuke would clearly blow away V3 Susano like a fart in the wind and Sasuke will be vaporized before the backside of his Susano even disintegrated.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Android (Sep 23, 2016)

Isaiah13000 said:


> That's what I'm talking about.


Every shinobi can use smoke bombs , not a big deal , Sunabokori is much better .
- Blocked the shared vision of all the paths .
- Fukasku picks up Bunta and throws him .
- Bunta swallows both Chikushudo and Naruto .
- The rest of the paths have no idea wtf is going on .
- Double Rasengan GG .
A tactic like this can not be done with smoke bombs .


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 23, 2016)

ARGUS said:


> Frog song broke the paths linkage to Nagato which is why it worked.
> It basically trapped the paths to another dimension
> Unless sasukes genjutsu can do that, his attack won't work
> 
> ...



 Sound Genjutsu was also established to be the most dangerous since Part 1 and Nagato has some resistance towards it due to possessing the Yin Energy of the Uchihas through the Rinnegan. Sasuke can certainly dupe Nagato through proper execution of his Genjutsu, but flat-out using it won't do anything because it's not enough to affect Pain.

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## Isaiah13000 (Sep 23, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> Every shinobi can use smoke bombs , not a big deal , Sunabokori is much better .
> - Blocked the shared vision of all the paths .
> - Fukasku picks up Bunta and throws him .
> - Bunta swallows both Chikushudo and Naruto .
> ...


Well yeah, I was just explaining the advantages that Naruto had over Sasuke against Pain. They both could use smoke bombs, but Naruto's Rasengan helped to really make more of the smoke in the air.

Reactions: Like 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 23, 2016)

emanthespriggan1234 said:


> .......



Its honestly just me bein an ass lol, i know what u meant i was just havin a bit of fun


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## Android (Sep 23, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> Sound Genjutsu was also established to be the most dangerous since Part 1 and Nagato has some resistance towards it due to possessing the Yin Energy of the Uchihas through the Rinnegan. Sasuke can certainly dupe Nagato through proper execution of his Genjutsu, but flat-out using it won't do anything because it's not enough to affect Pain.


I'm impressed .
How did you come up with this ?


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 23, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> I'm impressed .
> How did you come up with this ?



 How'd I come up with what? I need you to be more specific.


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 23, 2016)

Lol at people saying deva solos with ST, susanoo tanks literally anything deva throws at sasuke short of CT. And lol at people saying its OOC for sasuke to use susanoo right away with no knowledge, he knew nothing about danzo who appeared to be a feeble old man yet sasuke popped susanoo just to block danzos first punch, pretty sure sasuke wont hesitate to use it in a 6v1 against the akatsuki members he is facing. Sasuke still loses here dont get me wrong, but its mainly due to no knowledge and its far from a stomp in pains favor, he doesnt walk away from this with anything less than high diff. Sasukes kit just matches up well against pains kit, its that simple, with knowledge sasuke could very likely walk out with a win here, without, he gives pain a run for his money but ultimately gets outlasted.


*Spoiler*: _Just the ribcage of susanoo tanks raikages liger bomb, its gonna tank ST no problem _ 










*Spoiler*: _Susanoo tanks bakus suction, and anchors sasuke to the ground allowing him to counter, exactly what would happen if Deva use BT._ 










*Spoiler*: _Sasuke pops susanoo to block danzos simple punch, an opponent he knows nothing about, sasuke is going to use susanoo pretty quick in any scenario, especially 1 v 6 against akatsuki members._

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Android (Sep 23, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> How'd I come up with what? I need you to be more specific.


Meh , never mind .
But i liked the post tho .........


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## Parallaxis (Sep 23, 2016)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Pretty much exactly what i was saying only much more concise and way easier to read lol. Susanoo is a vicious counter to spop, half of the bodies are useless outside of close combat, meaning they get close and susanoo squashes them into the carpet, and none of the bodies are fast enough to dodge ama and i doubt they can dodge the arrows either, susanoo, ama, and arrows are all also things sasuke shamelessly spams, meaning big trouble for pain. But pains resurrection ability is what cripples sasuke in this fight, combined with no knowledge aside from what he picks up as he goes along, expending stamina the entire time, sasuke loses.
> 
> MS is a better counter to pain than SM imo tho, MS has abilities meant for outright killing your opponent in one shot from a mid ranged distance and these abilities are difficult if not impossible to avoid, plus susanoo is no joke in close quarters either, sasuke is also capable of spamming these abilities. SM on the other hand, or at least as naruto uses it, is almost entirely close range which is a bad idea against half of pains bodies, frog kumite(close) senpo COR(close) Rasengan barrage(close), only ranged attack naruto has is FRS and he is restricted in its use, naruto is also limited in the number of clones he can initially make and cannot spam any of his abilities as they use up too much sage chakra.
> 
> With the scenario naruto had, given to sasuke, i see him pulling out a win rather easily. He knows what each path can do and deva is on cooldown, meaning right out the gate, sasuke amas deva and he amas naraka, or he arrows them, and its gg. The rest of the bodies mean jack to sasuke, animal paths summons get 1 shotted by black flames, ningendo is megatrolled by susanoo with either black flames coating it or just straight up squashes ningendo, asura gets 1 shotted by a susanoo fist just like he got 1 shotted against narutos fist, preta is all thats left and falls rather quickly on its own. With  deva dealt with while its helplessly on CD, sasuke doesnt have to worry about CT which is his biggest threat, and with naraka dead its now a question of "how long can sasuke keep susanoo up?" which as he proved against danzo is quite a long time, so he outlasts the remaining bodies while 1 shotting them along the way.



i think amaterasu can be pushed away in enough time, given sasuke was taking forever to try to extinguish the flames and when he did, it revealed that the amaterasu had done jack shit to karin.


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## DaVizWiz (Sep 23, 2016)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Lol at people saying deva solos with ST, susanoo tanks literally anything deva throws at sasuke short of CT. And lol at people saying its OOC for sasuke to use susanoo right away with no knowledge, he knew nothing about danzo who appeared to be a feeble old man yet sasuke popped susanoo just to block danzos first punch, pretty sure sasuke wont hesitate to use it in a 6v1 against the akatsuki members he is facing. Sasuke still loses here dont get me wrong, but its mainly due to no knowledge and its far from a stomp in pains favor, he doesnt walk away from this with anything less than high diff. Sasukes kit just matches up well against pains kit, its that simple, with knowledge sasuke could very likely walk out with a win here, without, he gives pain a run for his money but ultimately gets outlasted.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: _Just the ribcage of susanoo tanks raikages liger bomb, its gonna tank ST no problem _
> ...


CST vaporizes any Susano and it's user bar Madara's PS+

500m deep crater in mountain terrain, several miles of a parameter for this crater, after being shot from multiple kilometers displaced in the sky widening it's AoE but greatly reducing it's power, and flattened an entire village's infrastructure well outside of the initial attack's origin.

Minor ST wiped out an FRS, which people argue would bust a normal V3 Susano with ease.

BT alters gravity around the target, the weight of a Susano doesn't apply because Deva is directly manupulating gravity, which determines weight of mass of the target.

How you compared BT to an elephant sucking in air up it's nose is beyond me. BT is an on-target pulling force which alters weight. Susano can't block BT like it could block an elephant sucking air around it.

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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 23, 2016)

Isaiah13000 said:


> Because he has superior firepower,.



What ? 

Naruto's strongest jutsu was FRS, which is inferior to Amaterasu. Sasuke also has Susano'O arrow(or enton arrow or enton magatama if we assume he can awaken V4 like he did at the end of Danzo fight) which is faster than FRS(meaning harder to avoid) and more spammable, considering 2 FRS depleted Naruto's sage chakra and Sasuke can release arrows one after another.
Sasuke also has Kirin, which is on a whole different level to anything Naruto has.

Sasuke has superior firepower by a longshot.


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## Isaiah13000 (Sep 23, 2016)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> What ?
> 
> *Naruto's strongest jutsu was FRS, which is inferior to Amaterasu.*


 



> Sasuke also has Susano'O arrow(or enton arrow or enton magatama if we assume he can awaken V4 like he did at the end of Danzo fight) which is faster than FRS(meaning harder to avoid) and more spammable,


 MS Sasuke never displayed the ability to use Enton Arrow or Enton Magatama, so that doesn't count.



> considering 2 FRS depleted Naruto's sage chakra and Sasuke can release arrows one after another.
> Sasuke also has Kirin, which is on a whole different level to anything Naruto has.


 SM Naruto can use Odama Rasengan multiple times which is as big as Pain's summons and can launch them kilometers into the air. Whilst FRS can be thrown with great speed and is capable of completely disintegrating a human body even if it doesn't land, due to it's large blast radius. With his usage of Kage Bunshin, alongside the Kage Shuriken no Jutsu, he can get FRS to land even against reflexive and agile opponents by outsmarting them in creative ways. 

His Susanoo Arrow was also countered by Danzo by diverting it with a basic Mokuton, and his Kirin needs to be prepared and set up which will take time.



> Sasuke has superior firepower by a longshot.


 His moves are easier to counter and avoid, unlike Naruto's. The only real advantage is that he has longer range than Naruto does.

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## Android (Sep 23, 2016)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Naruto's strongest jutsu was FRS, which is inferior to Amaterasu


Please don't compare that shitty F-rank level jutsu to FRS ck
Amaterasu may have one score on FRS , and that's burning Nagato's dog .
Tho , the dogs didn't disappear until Nagato himself was hit .
But aside from that , it failed everything single time .
It's record isn't even worth comparing to base Rasengan .


Grimmjowsensei said:


> Sasuke also has Kirin, which is on a whole different level to anything Naruto has.


Yeah , still delusional as ever .

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## Android (Sep 23, 2016)

The thought of Sasuke spamming Amaterasyu to kill the paths , and Amaterasu and Katon to prep Kirin , and Susanoo arrows , all while maintaining V3 Susanoo , is fucking hilarious :
I mean , didn't know MS Sauce was this stamina freak

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## Isaiah13000 (Sep 23, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> The thought of Sasuke spamming Amaterasyu to kill the paths , and Amaterasu and Katon to prep Kirin , and Susanoo arrows , all while maintaining V3 Susanoo , is fucking hilarious :
> I mean , didn't know MS Sauce was this stamina freak


I also haven't received a response explaining how Sasuke deals with the Deva one-shotting him at the beginning with a boss trio-sized ST, or getting pulled out of his Susanoo with BT and impaled by the black receivers immediately.


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## Troyse22 (Sep 23, 2016)

Isaiah13000 said:


> I also haven't received a response explaining how Sasuke deals with the Deva one-shotting him at the beginning with a boss trio-sized ST, or getting pulled out of his Susanoo with BT and impaled by the black receivers immediately.



I addressed it, the argument is circling and its annoying, so I left it alone. You refuse to acknowledge that Sasukes V3 will tank ST and being thrown into some rocks because of your bias toward Pain. It's annoying.

You're implying that Sasuke can't tank some soft dirt on the ground or some rocks and a jutsu that does nothing but push Sasuke away or sent flying some meters at best. There's no sense in debating with someone like that, when Susanoo is one of the best defenses in the entire manga.

So i'm not going to address you further in this thread, because you're just denying facts because you want to.


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## Isaiah13000 (Sep 23, 2016)

Troyse22 said:


> I addressed it, the argument is circling and its annoying, so I left it alone. You refuse to acknowledge that Sasukes V3 will tank ST and being thrown into some rocks because of your bias toward Pain. It's annoying.
> 
> You're implying that Sasuke can't tank some soft dirt on the ground or some rocks and a jutsu that does nothing but push Sasuke away or sent flying some meters at best. There's no sense in debating with someone like that, when Susanoo is one of the best defenses in the entire manga.
> 
> So i'm not going to address you further in this thread, because you're just denying facts because you want to.


I meant legitimate responses other than "Susanoo is tough, so Susanoo will tank it". What I've been saying is that the sheer force from the ST would harm Sasuke and his Susanoo and send him flying kilometers away which you have not countered. If Sasuke's Susanoo can be pushed back and sucked in by Danzo's Futon and his Baku, then ST and BT will have no problem dispersing it or pulling Sasuke out of it altogether.


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 23, 2016)

DaVizWiz said:


> CST vaporizes any Susano and it's user bar Madara's PS+
> 
> 500m deep crater in mountain terrain, several miles of a parameter for this crater, after being shot from multiple kilometers displaced in the sky widening it's AoE but greatly reducing it's power, and flattened an entire village's infrastructure well outside of the initial attack's origin.
> 
> ...



CST...you mean the thing pain did to vaporize the village correct? While i agree that would mess up sasuke badly if he gets it off, pain also needs to go up in the sky, and become a very easy target for sasuke to simply 1 shot with an arrow or amaterasu, and whats stopping sasuke from reverse summoning his way out of the blast wave with either his snakes as he has done before, or his hawks?

Ribcage susanoo tanked Liger bomb, ST hasnt shown anything on that level of dc aside from the massive one he used against the village, i have no doubt that a higher version of susanoo can easily tank a standard st no problem if ribcage shrugs off one of the raikages heaviest attacks.

BT doesnt alter gravity, it affects the target similar to the laws of attraction and repulsion, if kakashis goddamn raiton shadow clone could resist the pull of BT *with a goddamn chain*, susanoo can easily resist the pull by digging itself down into the ground. It doesnt straight up negate gravity, kakashi also managed to resist temporarily using the chain, meaning its effect is similar to suction, meaning its similar to bakus ability, meaning susanoos feats against baku, can be applied to BT as well.

BT pulls its target to the caster, suction does the same thing, if kakashi can resist the pull of BT by grabbing something else, than susanoo can do the same thing by grabbing hold of the ground to anchor itself in place.


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## DaVizWiz (Sep 23, 2016)

Why would Pain need to go into the sky to use CST?

How can you reverse summon out of an attack you cannot see coming or have knowledge on potentially coming?


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 24, 2016)

DaVizWiz said:


> Why would Pain need to go into the sky to use CST?
> 
> How can you reverse summon out of an attack you cannot see coming or have knowledge on potentially coming?



Well i just assumed the first bit, not gonna lie, figured "hey its what he did in the manga, its likely his preferred way to cast it." Pain hasnt cast it any other way that i recall either, so maybe its s requirement for a silly reason.

Theres gonna be a cast time to a mega ST, and sasuke with sharingan, is gonna no pain is up to something, if he has seen a standard ST prior to the nuke ST, hed no what to expect, and thus would wanna gtfo.

Either way its all irrelevant, as sasuke loses here cuz of no knowledge. All im trying to say, is sasuke doesnt get stomped, he actually puts up a hell of a fight before he gets outlasted, but he just cant climb over the respawn path unless he gets real lucky and downs it early.


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## The All Unknowing (Sep 24, 2016)

DaVizWiz said:


> Why would Pain need to go into the sky to use CST?
> 
> *How can you reverse summon out of an attack you cannot see coming or have knowledge on potentially coming?*


but, wouldn't Sasuke see the attack coming by seeing the chakra buildup with his Sharingan?


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## Troyse22 (Sep 24, 2016)

The All Unknowing said:


> but, wouldn't Sasuke see the attack coming by seeing the chakra buildup with his Sharingan?



That was my thought when I read that, similar to when he saw Deidara's C0 coming.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 24, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> Please don't compare that shitty F-rank level jutsu to FRS ck
> Amaterasu may have one score on FRS , and that's burning Nagato's dog .
> [


Taking care of a situation where FRS was a nonfactor. That is enough to conclude that it is superior.



> Tho , the dogs didn't disappear until Nagato himself was hit .


Thats completely baseless.

Link removed
We saw the dog roll over before Nagato was hit and he is engulfed by flames.



> But aside from that , it failed everything single time .
> It's record isn't even worth comparing to base Rasengan .



FRS failed more times and was casually avoided without requiring a special set of skills.
You must be mentally impaired if you honestly think FRS is superior to Amaterasu.



> Yeah , still delusional as ever .



I already proved this(which is sad because the manga makes it pretty clear), so I have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.



Isaiah13000 said:


>


read above.



> MS Sasuke never displayed the ability to use Enton Arrow or Enton Magatama, so that doesn't count.


It says post Danzo Sasuke fight.
Sasuke displayed his V4 post Danzo fight : Link removed



> SM Naruto can use Odama Rasengan multiple times which is as big as Pain's summons and can launch them kilometers into the air. Whilst FRS can be thrown with great speed and is capable of completely disintegrating a human body even if it doesn't land, due to it's large blast radius. With his usage of Kage Bunshin, alongside the Kage Shuriken no Jutsu, he can get FRS to land even against reflexive and agile opponents by outsmarting them in creative ways.


No substance here.
I know what Naruto has. FRS and Odaama Rasengan. They are inferior to Amaterasu, Susano'O arrows and Kirin.



> His Susanoo Arrow was also countered by Danzo by diverting it with a basic Mokuton,


And FRS is dodged by jumping away, pretty casually.

Danzo couldn't form handseals against Susano'O arrow, let alone side step it. Kakashi couldn't physically react either. Its pretty evident that it is faster than FRS and Sasuke isn't limited to only 2.



> and his Kirin needs to be prepared and set up which will take time.


That doesn't change the fact that it is in Sasuke's arsenal and superior to anything Naruto has.



> His moves are easier to counter and avoid, unlike Naruto's. The only real advantage is that he has longer range than Naruto does.



Please tell me you are trolling.
Do you honestly believe Kirin, Amaterasu and Susano'O arrows are easier to avoid than FRS or Odaama Rasengan ? And I thought I heard my share of stupid things.
.

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## Android (Sep 24, 2016)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Taking care of a situation where FRS was a nonfactor. That is enough to conclude that it is superior.


Let's see 
- Did jack to Karin even tho it stayed on it's back for a long time .
- Gaara's sand blocked the flames with utter ease
- Took a very long time on the Samurai's armour and it failed to burn it
- A beaten up worn out Naruto casually blocking it and throwing it aside using a Kn0 cloak
- Hebi Sasuke trolling it with his Kawarimi no Jutsu .
- Sasuke adding it to his Chidori was non-factor against Naruto's BASE Rasengan .
- And it's other variants like Enton Magatama , Enton arrows , ..... etc etc have the feats of burning fodder Zetsu
You must be mentally challenged to think that FRS wouldn't OHKO these guys
Especially Karin 
Remember the time when Madara absorbed FRS , he said " such power " , on the other hand he laughed at Sasuke for hitting him with that poverty ass jutsu 
At least FRS has a decent record compared to Joketerasu
- On half it's power it killed 2 of Kakauzu's hearts
- Completely vaporized Ningendo
- Knocked down the Kyuubi on his tails
- Vaporized 2 Mokuton-Ryu
And even it's other variants 
- Bisected the Shinju tree
- Vaporized 6-7 meteors , while Sasuke was struggling just to cut a single meteor .
- Equaled Sasuke's Indra's arrow
- One of it's variants also turned Kaguya to a giant chakra mass unable to control the Bijuu chakra . And the databook called it the most marvelous ninjutsu of all time .
So yeah ,FRS kept getting stronger , more useful , more hype , more variants , and more relevant .
While fodderatsu and it's variants kept getting shat on , week , after week , after week , after week 
But i must congratulate Amaterasu on burning a summon , i mean it didn't need a summon to be listed on the long list of techniques , things that trolled it , it didn't need more embarrassement 
But of course i expect to tap dance around all of this like you usually do , right ?


Grimmjowsensei said:


> That doesn't change the fact that it is in Sasuke's arsenal and superior to anything Naruto has.


Complete and utter bullshit .
Naruto has superior taijutsu , and punchs that can't be seen and can OHKO .
A wind nuke that doesn't actually need chapters and chapters to be prepared .
Better reflexes , better physical strength , better summons , and he has audio attacks that can effect Pain, unlike sharingan genjutsu .
The only thing Sasuke had over him was defense , even tho it was raped by Danzo's poverty ass Fuuton .
Oh , and of course , a better hype .


Grimmjowsensei said:


> I already proved this(which is sad because the manga makes it pretty clear), so I have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.


You did not prove shit , i debunked all of this nonsense before using evidence from the manga , the DB , but of course you kept tap dancing around .
That's what the fuck i'm talking about .

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## Arles Celes (Sep 24, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> The thought of Sasuke spamming Amaterasyu to kill the paths , and Amaterasu and Katon to prep Kirin , and Susanoo arrows , all while maintaining V3 Susanoo , is fucking hilarious :
> I mean , didn't know MS Sauce was this stamina freak



I think the best Amaterasu feat before it started being spammed(and worfed) was when Sasuke used it on Hachibi. To be able to inflict so much damage and force the bijuu to lose several limbs in order to make make it was quite impressive IMO.

Also when it landed on Obito and seemingly forced him to use Izanagi.

Granted Hachibi managed to make it thanks to "Tentacle escape" but said move even worked against Momoshiki who used on Hachibi an empowered bijuudama. And it saved Bee from Madara's attempt to eat Hachibi via GM.

Generally Amaterasu is extremely dangerous when it manages to touch somebody's skin but it faced opponents who could dodge it(V2 Raikage), could remove bodyparts/shed skin(Hachibi, Sasuke with Oral Rebirth, Juubi) or managed to create a shield of sorts in time for Amaterasu to focus on it(Gaara's sand, Naruto's V1 chakra shroud).

As for Sasuke's stamina I wonder if Karin did restore his chakra reserves in kamuiland. Otherwise he fought Danzou with his reserves hardly at full due to his previous battles.


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## Android (Sep 24, 2016)

Arles Celes said:


> I think the best Amaterasu feat before it started being spammed(and worfed) was when Sasuke used it on Hachibi. To be able to inflict so much damage and force the bijuu to lose several limbs in order to make make it was quite impressive IMO.
> 
> Also when it landed on Obito and seemingly forced him to use Izanagi.
> 
> ...


As long as you can give it something else to feed on other than your skin , you're safe , be it sand , V1 Kyuubi chakra cloak , or samurain armour .
Or an Akatsuki fancy coat made in Iwagakure 


Arles Celes said:


> As for Sasuke's stamina I wonder if Karin did restore his chakra reserves in kamuiland. Otherwise he fought Danzou with his reserves hardly at full due to his previous battles.


She abviously did , she can't let him fight without healing .
Not to mention dat orgasm she gets when he bites her


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## Isaiah13000 (Sep 24, 2016)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> read above.


 I have, and that reaction is still fitting.




> It says post Danzo Sasuke fight.
> Sasuke displayed his V4 post Danzo fight : manga canon


 He still didn't display such abilities is what I'm saying, he very clearly couldn't maintain it long enough to do anything. We'd have to start speculating to say he can use Enton Arrows and Yasaka Magatama with only his MS now.




> No substance here.
> I know what Naruto has. FRS and Odaama Rasengan. They are inferior to Amaterasu, Susano'O arrows and Kirin.


 Amaterasu is trash, Susanoo Arrows can be diverted, and Kirin needs time to be prepared and utilized which is unlikely to happen against an opponent who is aiming to actually kill Sasuke.




> And FRS is dodged by jumping away, pretty casually.


 Yeah, against reflexive and agile opponents. Also, Naruto's usage of Bunshin Kawarimis and the Kage Shuriken no Jutsu are  able to get around that.



> Danzo couldn't form handseals against Susano'O arrow, let alone side step it. Kakashi couldn't physically react either. Its pretty evident that it is faster than FRS and Sasuke isn't limited to only 2.


 It being faster doesn't make it more lethal though, it can still easily be diverted and is weaker overall.




> That doesn't change the fact that it is in Sasuke's arsenal and superior to anything Naruto has.


 Which doesn't have much substance either.





> Please tell me you are trolling.
> Do you honestly believe Kirin, Amaterasu and Susano'O arrows are easier to avoid than FRS or Odaama Rasengan ? And I thought I heard my share of stupid things.
> .


 Well Amaterasu is pathetic so I don't why you even mentioned it to begin with. Sasuke would need to set a vast area ablaze with Amaterasu and use Katon: Goryuka no Jutsu to prepare Kirin and then direct it at his opponent without his opponent doing anything in order to get it to land. Whilst the Susanoo Arrow situation has already been explained. Sasuke's firepower is inferior because it is less useful and can be more easily countered, unlike Naruto's firepower. Between Kawazu Kumite, Odama Rasengan, and FRS his arsenal is definitely superior, and that's excluding the toad summons as well.


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 24, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> At least FRS has a decent record compared to Joketerasu
> - On half it's power it killed 2 of Kakauzu's hearts
> - Completely vaporized Ningendo
> - Knocked down the Kyuubi on his tails
> ...



While i agree that ama has a great many questionable instances of being used, i think you are buying into the hype of FRS just a little too much, and what i mean by that is, you seem to be implying that base FRS was capable of individually countering all of these instances in its base form, if thats not what u r implying than i apologize for reading too far into it, but on the off chance u r implying it...



cctr9 said:


> - Bisected the Shinju tree



Sure, i agree, but at the time it was amped by narutos six paths sage mode and the lava style element from the yonbis chakra as well. So not a base FRS





cctr9 said:


> Vaporized 6-7 meteors , while Sasuke was struggling just to cut a single meteor .



Agreed, however it wasnt 1 FRS at all, more like 1 for each meteor, and they also werent FRS, but TBBFRS that appeared to be larger than a standard FRS as well, also not base FRS






cctr9 said:


> - Equaled Sasuke's Indra's arrow



Hardly, FRS did not counter indras arrow, im sorry, but thats just not right. The FRS variant that was used was part of a pair for starters, one of them was a TBBFRS, they were also both utterly massive because they were formed by narutos avatar, they were also both amped beyond belief by literally all the NE in the world and narutos rikudo sage mode, hardly a base FRS.



cctr9 said:


> One of it's variants also turned Kaguya to a giant chakra mass unable to control the Bijuu chakra . And the databook called it the most marvelous ninjutsu of all time .



This is also kinda not true, "most marvelous ninjutsu of all time" is kinda disproved by naruto himself when he uses his FRS variants to counter indras arrow, that move clearly held way more raw power in it than this instance and due to that was more marvelous, however, thats solely my opinion. In addition to that, there were 9 of them not one, they were all individually amped by each bijus chakra, and amped by rikudo sage mode, so yet again, not a base FRS. Oddly enough, you need look no further than ur sig to see what im talking about lol.

And although this has nothing to do with the topic at hand, i feel the need to point this out.



cctr9 said:


> A beaten up worn out Naruto casually blocking it and throwing it aside using a Kn0 cloak





cctr9 said:


> Sasuke adding it to his Chidori was non-factor against Naruto's BASE Rasengan .





cctr9 said:


> On half it's power it killed 2 of Kakauzu's hearts



I cant help but feel that, if these instances were reversed, and narutos FRS was blocked by a tired sasukes ribcage susanoo, or if naruto used good ol futon rasengan again for the first time since he messed up kakashis hand with it or added rikudo chakra to his base rasengan and used it against sasukes base chidori and it resulted in a stalemate, or if one of sasukes chidori variants knocked off two hearts from kakuzu that people would just scream PIS and call it bull, yet its accepted with naruto for no apparent reason. Im not claiming that sasuke could replicate these feats, and im not downplaying narutos accomplishments in each instance, just sensing a bit of a double standard is all.


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## Android (Sep 24, 2016)

WorldsStrongest said:


> While i agree that ama has a great many questionable instances of being used, i think you are buying into the hype of FRS just a little too much, and what i mean by that is, you seem to be implying that base FRS was capable of individually countering all of these instances in its base form, if thats not what u r implying than i apologize for reading too far into it, but on the off chance u r implying it...


I am abviously comparing all of FRS variants to Amatersau variants .
FRS having more variants is a part of it's power and superiority .


WorldsStrongest said:


> Sure, i agree, but at the time it was amped by narutos six paths sage mode and the lava style element from the yonbis chakra as well. So not a base FRS


Like i said , i'm comparing all of FRS and Amaterasu variants .


WorldsStrongest said:


> *Spoiler*: _Naruto was in rikudo sage mode when he threw the rasenshuriken_


Lol , i already know that , he's my fav after all .
What are Sasuke's Rikudo Amaterasu feats ? 


WorldsStrongest said:


> Agreed, however it wasnt 1 FRS at all, more like 1 for each meteor, and they also werent FRS, but TBBFRS that appeared to be larger than a standard FRS as well, also not base FRS


Again , all of FRS and Amaterasu variants .
the first TBBRS was the size of Naruto's palm , it destroyed abviously more than one meteor , just look at the sides of the scans .
Hell , the explosion itself can probably contain more than 3 meteors lol .


WorldsStrongest said:


> *Spoiler*: _TBBFRS vs meteors_


I know that .


WorldsStrongest said:


> Hardly, FRS did not counter indras arrow, im sorry, but thats just not right. The FRS variant that was used was part of a pair for starters, one of them was a TBBFRS, they were also both utterly massive because they were formed by narutos avatar, they were also both amped beyond belief by literally all the NE in the world and narutos rikudo sage mode, hardly a base FRS.


Already adressed this .
Lol , just look at the level that FRS can be upgraded to , rivaling Indra's Arrow .


WorldsStrongest said:


> This is also kinda not true, "most marvelous ninjutsu of all time" is kinda disproved by naruto himself when he uses his FRS variants to counter indras arrow, that move clearly held way more raw power in it than this instance and due to that was more marvelous, however, thats solely my opinion. In addition to that, there were 9 of them not one, they were all individually amped by each bijus chakra, and amped by rikudo sage mode, so yet again, not a base FRS. Oddly enough, you need look no further than ur sig to see what im talking about lol.


Already adressed this .
The Jutsu itself is formed by 9 FRS , it is suppose to be 9 FRS .
It's not about DC , it's about striking Kaguya's weak points , making her unable to control her physical form .
I don't think there's a technique in the serious can harm Kaguya like this , or at least mutate her like that .


WorldsStrongest said:


> I cant help but feel that, if these instances were reversed, and narutos FRS was blocked by a tired sasukes ribcage susanoo, or if naruto used good ol futon rasengan again for the first time since he messed up kakashis hand with it or added rikudo chakra to his base rasengan and used it against sasukes base chidori and it resulted in a stalemate, or if one of sasukes chidori variants knocked off two hearts from kakuzu that people would just scream PIS and call it bull, yet its accepted with naruto for no apparent reason. Im not claiming that sasuke could replicate these feats, and im not downplaying narutos accomplishments in each instance, just sensing a bit of a double standard is all.


What can i say , a feat is a feat .


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 24, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> I am abviously comparing all of FRS variants to Amatersau variants .
> FRS having more variants is a part of it's power and superiority .
> 
> Like i said , i'm comparing all of FRS and Amaterasu variants .
> ...



Fair enough, as i said in my post, i was just making sure you werent trying to say base FRS could do all of that.

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## KeyofMiracles (Sep 24, 2016)

He'd need everything Naruto had as advantages to be able to defeat Pain here.


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## Android (Sep 24, 2016)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Fair enough, as i said in my post, i was just making sure you werent trying to sasy base FRS could do all of that.


Lol , no prob , young blood .


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 24, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> Lol , no prob , young blood .


Not that im complaining, but why the rep? ty btw


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## Android (Sep 24, 2016)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Not that im complaining, but why the rep? ty btw


Nothing , i just like decent , friendly , civilized posters , unlike some few posters here , that if you disagree with them , they start talking to you as if you raped their sisters or something .

Reactions: Friendly 3


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## TheCupOfBrew (Sep 24, 2016)

With no knowledge beforehand there's not much of a chance for Sauce to win. Naruto barely made it with knowledge of the paths. And even then he had help from Kurama bursting out of the CT before wrestling control back.


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## euss6678 (Sep 24, 2016)

Sasuke one shots 3 bodies with ama
GG's 2 with genjutsu
and destroys the last one with susanoo

Reactions: Funny 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 24, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> Nothing , i just like decent , friendly , civilized posters , unlike some few posters here , that if you disagree with them , they start talking to you as if you raped their sisters or something .





cc thinks im friendly...words cannot express...my joy


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## Android (Sep 24, 2016)

WorldsStrongest said:


> cc thinks im friendly...words cannot express...my joy


Well , whatever i meant , it's suppose to be a good thing .


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 24, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> Well , whatever i meant , it's suppose to be a good thing .



As was mine lol, the cats were hugging you, as i expressed my joy.

Reactions: Friendly 2


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Sep 24, 2016)

This MS Sasuke is basically an extremely strong Itachi. Alas that won't help him, he suffers the same issues as all MS users: Ninjutsu is useless because of Preta and his Taijutsu is nullified because of the rest.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Disagree 2


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 25, 2016)

Isaiah13000 said:


> I have, and that reaction is still fitting.


Well that is as good as any form of concession, and I'll take it.



> He still didn't display such abilities is what I'm saying, he very clearly couldn't maintain it long enough to do anything. We'd have to start speculating to say he can use Enton Arrows and Yasaka Magatama with only his MS now.


He couldn't maintain it for long because he was fully exhausted at that point. But he awakened it, so that means he would be able to access that jutsu whenever he had the chakra for it.
We've seen what that jutsu can do : Shikimaru's dad flat out tells us as much Shikimaru's dad flat out tells us as much

But his V4 is overkill anyways, he still has more firepower without it. It don't care if you deny manga at this point because I'm used to it.



> Amaterasu is trash, Susanoo Arrows can be diverted, and Kirin needs time to be prepared and utilized which is unlikely to happen against an opponent who is aiming to actually kill Sasuke.


Amaterasu is still stronger than FRS, we've seen it on numerous occasions.
FRS is a jutsu people can casually sidestep.
Susano'O arrows can be diverted but they are faster than FRS and more spammable, meaning they are more of a hassle to avoid.
Kirin is situational I agree, but its firepower is on a complete different ballpark than anything Naruto has.
We can't just dismiss a technique because it requires prep. Kirin's prep isn't that unrealistic either, it requires Sasuke to warm up the atmosphere with a couple of Katons. If it is a rainy weather, he likely doesn't need to do much.


> Yeah, against reflexive and agile opponents. Also, Naruto's usage of Bunshin Kawarimis and the Kage Shuriken no Jutsu are  able to get around that.



Deva realm dodged the FRS when it was like a meter away from his face, and he was in pretty terrible shape.
And while he is no slouch, he is not V2 A(or others on that ballpark for that matter).
It is pretty obvious that avoiding FRS is alot easier than avoiding Amaterasu. One of them is a linear projectile that apparently can be dodged from almost point blank range.



> It being faster doesn't make it more lethal though, it can still easily be diverted and is weaker overall.


I never claimed it did.
I just pointed out that they are faster and more spammable, making it harder to deal with.
If they both land, FRS does more damage obviously, no one can contest that.



> Which doesn't have much substance either.


You think manga has no substance ?
Because what I said is in the manga. Kirin is in Sasuke's arsenal, meaning it is a jutsu he can use(even when out of chakra) and it is stronger than anything Naruto has.



> Sasuke's firepower is inferior because it is less useful and can be more easily countered.



Like I said, if you honestly believe Sasuke's firepower is inferior and more easily countered than Naruto's, contrary to everything we've known and seen about Amaterasu, Susano'O arrows and Kirin, then you are either too biased to make a fair assessment or you are actually mentally impaired.
Eitherway, I'm done with you.



cctr9 said:


> Let's see
> - Did jack to Karin even tho it stayed on it's back for a long time .
> - Gaara's sand blocked the flames with utter ease
> - Took a very long time on the Samurai's armour and it failed to burn it
> ...




We are talking about SM Naruto's FRS and MS Sasuke's Amaterasu, and you are throwing in the variants Naruto used with Rikodou chakra.
You are way too emotionally invested, so you are grasping at straws. This isn't about winning or losing. There are times you realize you don't have much to elaborate on and just concede. You win or learn.
At this point you are just embarassing yourself. You are a smart fella, you deserve alot better.

You don't need to look no further than this : Shikimaru's dad flat out tells us as much vs Shikimaru's dad flat out tells us as much

And this : Shikimaru's dad flat out tells us as much vs Shikimaru's dad flat out tells us as much

Amaterasu can kill things FRS can't do shit to. And a guy on V1 A's ballpark of speed can casually side step FRS two times in a row, while A needs to amp up that speed significantly to avoid Amaterasu.

There is an unfathomable gap between two techniques. Its not even open to debate. Its just sad that you think it is.



> Complete and utter bullshit .


Why do I get the feeling that you'll embarass yourself further with a start like this...



> Naruto has superior taijutsu , and punchs that can't be seen and can OHKO .
> A wind nuke that doesn't actually need chapters and chapters to be prepared .
> Better reflexes , better physical strength , better summons , and he has audio attacks that can effect Pain, unlike sharingan genjutsu .
> The only thing Sasuke had over him was defense , even tho it was raped by Danzo's poverty ass Fuuton .
> Oh , and of course , a better hype .



We are talking about firepower correct ?
How does anything you mention compare to Kirin in any way or form ?
Please refrain from using strawman arguments. Defense has absolultey nothing to do with this.



> You did not prove shit , i debunked all of this nonsense before using evidence from the manga , the DB , but of course you kept tap dancing around .
> That's what the fuck i'm talking about .



No, you stopped replying after I provided deductive reasoning backed up by manga scans that clearly show Kirin's superiority.

I repeat, Kirin is on a completely different level to FRS in terms of every aspect(speed, power, precision, chakra cost)


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## Icegaze (Sep 25, 2016)

@Grimmjowsensei 
From a damage point of view why do you think Kirin is well above FRS?
What is that based on ?
It's AoE isn't even superior nor its feats


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 25, 2016)

Icegaze said:


> It's AoE isn't even superior nor its feats[/USER]





Kirin destroyed  Itachi's Susano'O, Uchiha temple and the mountain the temple was built on. All in one go.

FRS doesn't have feats to suggest that it can accomplish those things on seperate occasions, let alone all at the same time.

I say this over and over again. And it seems like I'll have to keep saying it. FRS is the most overrated technique in BD.


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## Isaiah13000 (Sep 25, 2016)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Well that is as good as any form of concession, and I'll take it.


 Okay then. 




> He couldn't maintain it for long because he was fully exhausted at that point. But he awakened it, so that means he would be able to access that jutsu whenever he had the chakra for it.
> We've seen what that jutsu can do : Shikimaru's dad flat out tells us as much Shikimaru's dad flat out tells us as much
> 
> But his V4 is overkill anyways, he still has more firepower without it. It don't care if you deny manga at this point because I'm used to it.


 You're telling me I'm denying the Manga because I refuse to give MS Sasuke his EMS feats? Are you serious right now?




> Amaterasu is still stronger than FRS, we've seen it on numerous occasions.
> FRS is a jutsu people can casually sidestep.
> Susano'O arrows can be diverted but they are faster than FRS and more spammable, meaning they are more of a hassle to avoid.
> Kirin is situational I agree, but its firepower is on a complete different ballpark than anything Naruto has.
> We can't just dismiss a technique because it requires prep. Kirin's prep isn't that unrealistic either, it requires Sasuke to warm up the atmosphere with a couple of Katons. If it is a rainy weather, he likely doesn't need to do much.


 No it's not, Amaterasu has been more easily countered compared to FRS so stop lying. Overall FRS has superior hype and feats to support this, the fact that you still cling to Amaterasu so much til this day despite it being so pathetic further cements how biased you are. I already address the Susanoo Arrows nonsense and the thing is Sasuke will not be able to properly use Kirin against any opponent on or above his level who is aiming to kill him. 




> Deva realm dodged the FRS when it was like a meter away from his face, and he was in pretty terrible shape.
> And while he is no slouch, he is not V2 A(or others on that ballpark for that matter).
> It is pretty obvious that avoiding FRS is alot easier than avoiding Amaterasu. One of them is a linear projectile that apparently can be dodged from almost point blank range.


 Amaterasu is inferior though, so it doesn't matter. One hit of FRS means you are done and can never use chakra again if you survive by some chance. Amaterasu isn't on that caliber whatsoever. 




> I never claimed it did.
> I just pointed out that they are faster and more spammable, making it harder to deal with.
> If they both land, FRS does more damage obviously, no one can contest that.


 Alright, I agree with you here. 




> You think manga has no substance ?
> Because what I said is in the manga. Kirin is in Sasuke's arsenal, meaning it is a jutsu he can use(even when out of chakra) and it is stronger than anything Naruto has.


 But it's extremely situational, so it's not as useful as Naruto's arsenal. 





> Like I said, if you honestly believe Sasuke's firepower is inferior and more easily countered than Naruto's, contrary to everything we've known and seen about *Amaterasu, Susano'O arrows and Kirin*, then you are either too biased to make a fair assessment or you are actually mentally impaired.
> Eitherway, I'm done with you.


 Amaterasu failed every time, Susanoo Arrows were easily countered each time, and Kirin was only used once and is extremely situational. Naruto's arsenal has a lot better portrayal and is more useful in more situations. But if you want to be stubborn, that's fine too.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Icegaze (Sep 25, 2016)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Kirin destroyed  Itachi's Susano'O, Uchiha temple and the mountain the temple was built on. All in one go.
> 
> FRS doesn't have feats to suggest that it can accomplish those things on seperate occasions, let alone all at the same time.
> 
> I say this over and over again. And it seems like I'll have to keep saying it. FRS is the most overrated technique in BD.



No need to  or sound 

how would Kirin stack up against COFRS ? Curious as well since that's several times larger than FRS

As to FRS feats your right I looked back its AoE is quite abit smaller

It's hilarious to call the strongest wind Jutsu by very far ( bar it's stronger variants )overrated

As to which technique is better Amaterasu or FRS 

Frankly FRS would top it. Amaterasu thank god was only really ever useful against cerebrus which really seems outlinerish considering how poor it was in every other situation 

But Ms sasuke offensive and defensive arsenal > SM naruto


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 25, 2016)

Icegaze said:


> No need to  or sound
> [


I think it was appropriate. I mean we've seen FRS over and over again, I can't understand how you'd think it has more AOE and power than Kirin. Thats exactly why it is the most overrated jutsu in BD. People have this wrong and imaginary concept of FRS, forgetting all the times it failed and came up short, and only focus on a few instances where it was successful against mediocre opponents.



> how would Kirin stack up against COFRS ? Curious as well since that's several times larger than FRS


TBH its hard to tell. COFRS is featless for the most part. And I hate to scale jutsu based off their size alone. It never works like that.


> As to FRS feats your right I looked back its AoE is quite abit smaller
> 
> It's hilarious to call the strongest wind Jutsu by very far ( bar it's stronger variants )overrated


I think being the strongest wind jutsu doesn't validate anything for a couple of reasons. First off we've only seen a couple of wind element users, and except for Danzo the rest of em(Temari & Asuma) are pretty much fodder.
Second off, we've seen FRS used many times. I'm simply calling it overrated based on that performance.



> As to which technique is better Amaterasu or FRS
> 
> Frankly FRS would top it. Amaterasu thank god was only really ever useful against cerebrus which really seems outlinerish considering how poor it was in every other situation



I have no idea how you came to that conclusion tbh. It makes no sense. I find it pretty stupid to compare a jutsu which Pain basically avoided by jumping away, to a jutsu that requires a specific skillset to avoid which only a handful of people have.
I know you'll list ton of shit you think people can use to avoid Amaterasu, and I'll dismiss at leasf half of them but in the end most ways you'll list will be performed by either top tier guys or by certain guys who have methods that are specifically built to counter jutsu like Amaterasu.



> But Ms sasuke offensive and defensive arsenal > SM naruto


I agree.
People don't realize that SM Naruto's strongest suit isn't his offense or defense but rather his volume(quantity) and utility.



Isaiah13000 said:


> Amaterasu failed every time






Isaiah13000 said:


> "No it's not, Amaterasu has been more easily countered compared to FRS so stop lying"





How do you expect anyone to take you seriously when it is pretty evident that your superficial knowledge of this manga is not sufficient enough to come up with a proper argument. You are constantly making shit up.

Look, how about you post scans after each one of your claims, so that I can know that you aren't lying and I can at least bother reading through the rest of your post.

Deal ?


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## Android (Sep 25, 2016)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> We are talking about SM Naruto's FRS and MS Sasuke's Amaterasu, and you are throwing in the variants Naruto used with Rikodou chakra.


I'm starting to doubt your ability to read .
Wasn't Sasuke's amaterasu boosted with Rikudo chakra when he used it on Naruto ?
I am comparing ALL of Amaterasu and FRS variants , and FRS having more /stronger/useful/enhanced variants is a part of it's superiority .
And even if we compare Sasuke's amaterasu with regular FRS , it's feat are shit in comparison .
We're talking about the jutsu that failed to do jack to Karin's bare naked back .
Come the fuck on man , it's record is embarrassing .


Grimmjowsensei said:


> You are way too emotionally invested, so you are grasping at straws. This isn't about winning or losing. There are times you realize you don't have much to elaborate on and just concede. You win or learn.
> At this point you are just embarassing yourself. You are a smart fella, you deserve alot better.


A pathetic , childlish attempt to bait because you don't even know what to say at this point .
What are you ? a child ? 


Grimmjowsensei said:


> Amaterasu can kill things FRS can't do shit to


Like Karin , right ? 
How about a fodder Samurai that i'm short on fucks to try to remember his name ? 


Grimmjowsensei said:


> And a guy on V1 A's ballpark of speed can casually side step FRS two times in a row, while A needs to amp up that speed significantly to avoid Amaterasu.


Tell me one thing , was a beaten up , worn out Naruto at V2 A's speed when he reacted to that shit ? 
And a guy wearing an Akatsuki cloak can survive Amaterasu , what a pathetic jutsu 


Grimmjowsensei said:


> There is an unfathomable gap between two techniques. Its not even open to debate. Its just sad that you think it is.


Rather your wank , or lack of reading comprehension , or both .
Nah , it's the former 


Grimmjowsensei said:


> Why do I get the feeling that you'll embarass yourself further with a start like this...


Probably because you don't even know what to say at this point , you're just saying stuff right now .


Grimmjowsensei said:


> How does anything you mention compare to Kirin in any way or form ?
> Please refrain from using strawman arguments. Defense has absolultey nothing to do with this.


FRS has better feats , and can be used much easier than Kirin .


Grimmjowsensei said:


> No, you stopped replying after I provided deductive reasoning backed up by manga scans that clearly show Kirin's superiority.


Because i realized that you were either trolling or just not worth taking seriously .
Boruto movie is an anime filler ?????!!!!!
_*Boruto movie is an anime filler ?????????!!!!!!!!!!!!*_


Grimmjowsensei said:


> I repeat, Kirin is on a completely different level to FRS in terms of every aspect(speed, power, precision, chakra cost)


FRS shits on Kirin , move on boy .


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Sep 25, 2016)

KN6 was able to counter ST (Deva Pain at a distance level) because of its shroud. That's why Naruto didn't rebound it when he had several clones pin him down too: Sasuke will literally be at the mercy of ST, a jutsu he can't predict. With or without Susano.


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 25, 2016)

Pain is decisively above MS Sasuke. 

 Pain holds possession of the Rinnegan which is established to be a superior dojutsu than MS Sasuke which is made rather clear in its Databook Entry and the Rinnegan provided Pain with a superior defensive than Sasuke's own Susano'o which came in the form of Shared Vision, Diverse Boss Summons, and Shinra Tensei without providing the user with any repercussions. The Rinnegan eclipses the Mangekyo and the only way Sasuke could decisively obtain victory is if his skill in using his Dojutsu outstripped Pain's, but that's not what was shown with Jiraiya dejectedly stating that Pain's defense was perfect as opposed to Sasuke who made multiple rookie mistakes. 

 It's rather clear that Pain was on a different level than MS Sasuke.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 25, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> I'm starting to doubt your ability to read .
> Wasn't Sasuke's amaterasu boosted with Rikudo chakra when he used it on Naruto ?


Thats irrelevant. Amaterasu is still Amaterasu when boosted by Rikodou chakra. There is no change in its size, form or its speed. If there was, it was negligable.
You are trying to compare it to different variants of FRS which are all superior to regular FRS by their nature.
Anyone with an ounce of intelligence should be able to tell the logical fallacy in that.
I'd advice you to refrain from complaining about people's ability to read when you are having problems comprehending simple stuff yourself 



> I am comparing ALL of Amaterasu and FRS variants , and FRS having more /stronger/useful/enhanced variants is a part of it's superiority


It has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.
Like I said, refrain from strawman arguments.
You are wasting both of our times and losing credibility if you have left any.



> And even if we compare Sasuke's amaterasu with regular FRS , it's feat are shit in comparision .


I disproved that claim.
We had a chance to observe FRS and Amaterasu under similar circumstances against similar enemies and Amaterasu clearly trumps FRS, by a landslide.
Do you want me to post those scans again ?



> We're talking about the jutsu that failed to do jack to Karin's bare naked back .
> Come the fuck on man , it's record is embarrassing .


Amaterasu was never used directly on Karin. Karin came in contact with the left over flames on B's tentacle.
It is clearly an outlier too.
If you think that is the norm, then you have to assume that Karin's cloak and skin is more durable than Jiraiya's fire resistant toad stomach or Hachibee or Cerebrus that was tanking FRS.
So it doesn't mean Amaterasu is shit, but Karin is very durable.
Go with whichever makes more sense for you.



> A pathetic , childlish attempt to bait because you don't even know what to say at this point .


I'm just speaking the truth.
You are just embarassing yourself by acting like an overly emotional child. Grasping at straws ? Strawman arguments ? For what ? Whats the point of that ?



> Like Karin , right ?
> How about a fodder Samurai that i'm short on fucks to try to remember his name ?
> 
> Tell me one thing , was a beaten up , worn out Naruto at V2 A's speed when he reacted to that shit ?
> And a guy wearing an Akatsuki cloak can survive Amaterasu , what a pathetic jutsu


The guy Konohomaru defeated sidestepped FRS though. Thats how easy it is to avoid.


> Rather your wank , or lack of reading comprehension , or both .
> Nah , it's the former


I'll take that as a concession, since you can't adress any of the points I make.


> FRS has better feats , and can be used much easier than Kirin .


Show me a feat of FRS that comes close to destroying Itachi's Susano'O, the Uchiha temple and the mountain it was built on all at the same time. I'll wait.



> Because i realized that you were either trolling or just not worth taking seriously .
> Boruto movie is an anime filler ?????!!!!!
> _*Boruto movie is an anime filler ?????????!!!!!!!!!!!!*_



Boruto is a different series done by different people in a different medium.
The only way you can equate movies or the anime to the manga is if it is frame by frame the exact same with the manga.
Unless I see Boruto movie illustrated by Kishimoto in manga format that is exactly same with the movie, it is not canon. At least not visually.



> FRS shits on Kirin , move on boy .



Again, if you can find a single feat from FRS that is even remotely comparable to what Kirin did, we can talk about it.
But don't bother replying if you'll keep acting like a sour child.


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## Isaiah13000 (Sep 25, 2016)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> How do you expect anyone to take you seriously when it is pretty evident that your superficial knowledge of this manga is not sufficient enough to come up with a proper argument. You are constantly making shit up.
> 
> Look, how about you post scans after each one of your claims, so that I can know that you aren't lying and I can at least bother reading through the rest of your post.
> 
> Deal ?


 Anyone who has basic reading comprehension skills and has read this Manga from beginning to end will know that Amaerasu's track record is garbage in comparison to FRS and can be more easily countered in comparison.
*Amaterasu's Record:*

Succeeded in quickly burning through Jiraiya's Kuchiyose: Gamaguchi Shibari that was stated to be resistant against flames.  Jiraiya then proceeded to easily seal it away.
Succeeded in overpowering CS2 Sasuke's Katon: Gokakyu no Jutsu.
Was easily countered by CS2 Sasuke using Orochimaru's Oral Rebirth.
Was easily countered by BM Killer B taking advantage of his tentacle being cut off (something he could still do himself) to swap places with a Tentacle Bunshin.
*Failed to quickly burn through Karin's body and did next to no damage to her bare back. *
*Failed to quickly burn through a fodder Samurai's armor, and was countered by Temari and Kankuro taking his armor off. *

Was dodged easily by V2 A at point-blank range so quickly that he left behind an after-image.
Failed to quickly burn through A's arm and the vambrace he had on it, and hadn't even spread beyond his arm yet.
Failed to burn through Gaara's chakra-infused sand.
Was easily countered by Danzo using Izanagi.
Succeeded in dealing enough damage to cause Pain's Cerberus to poof away.
Succeeded in burning Nagato badly when he was being controlled by Kabuto and thus was unable to counter due to Kabuto's stupidity.
Succeeded in killing dozens of fodder White Zetsu though it failed to quickly burn through them.
Succeeded in deactivating Kabuto's Senpo: Muki Tensei.
Succeeded in killing countless Juublings but failed to quickly burn through them.
Failed against the Juubi by shedding it's skin.
Failed against Juubito by negating ninjutsu with his mastery over Onmyoton.
Failed against base Madara by absorbing it who insulted it and said *"A technique of this caliber is as much as a hindrance as the grovel at my feet". *
Failed against Kaguya since she's Kaguya.
*Failed against base Naruto with his KN0 cloak. *
*FRS' Record:*

Succeeded in killing Kakuzu's three remaining hearts and leaving his body without the ability to use chakra.
Succeeded in nearly vaporizing one of the Six Paths of Pain's bodies.
Succeeded in dealing more damage to Kurama than 27 CORS combined.
Failed to kill Pain's Cerberus since it's immortal and keeps growing more heads and bodies as it receives damage.
Failed against the Sandaime Raikage who is noted to have a body that is described as the "Strongest Shield" with "flesh like steel and blood like iron" who had never received an injury in his life from anyone barring himself, not even from Gyuki.
Succeeded in cutting through the Juubi's tails.
Succeeded in briefly countering the Juubi's wooden spear attack.
Failed against the Juubi.
Failed against Juubito for the same reasons as stated above.
Succeeded in destroying two of Hashirama's Mokuryus and immobilizing Edo Madara.
Succeeded in ragdolling Juudara and bisecting the Shinju.
Succeeded in wiping out entire meteors.
Succeeded in overwhelming Kaguya and causing her to become unstable.
Succeeded in countering Sasuke's Indra's Arrow.
Now let's put them in each other's positions and see which one is more effective.
*FRS in Amaterasu's Place:*

If FRS was used against Gamaguchi Shibari, it would slice through it and keep going until it explodes. 

If FRS was used against CS2 Sasuke's Katon it would overpower it and kill Sasuke despite the elemental advantage because it's so much stronger.
If FRS was used on Hebi Sasuke directly he'd be vaporized and unable to use chakra so no Oral Rebirth.

If FRS was used on BM Killer B he'd be injured and stunned considering what it did to Kurama and with no opportunity to run.
If FRS hit Karin she would be instantly vaporized.
If FRS hit the Samurai fodder he would be instantly vaporized.
If FRS hit A he'd be at least badly injured and left unable to use chakra since he isn't as durable as his father and isn't an Edo.
If FRS hit Gaara's sand it would disperse it.
If FRS hit Danzo he would still counter it with Izanagi.
We saw it fail against the Cerberus.
It would succeed in hitting Nagato while he was controlled by Kabuto too in that instance.
Would have vaporized the countless White Zetsu fodder.
Would have destroyed the portion of the cave that Kabuto was controlling with Muki Tensei.
Would have cut through and vaporized the Juublings.
Would fail against the Juubi and Juubito as seen, but we saw what it did to Madara and Kaguya.
Would have vaporized Naruto using his KN0.
*Amaterasu in FRS' Place:*

Would have burnt Kakuzu forever until he was turned to ash, which would still give him time to continue attacking.
Would have hit the Human Path and burned them forever until they turned to ash, or the Naraka would have healed them before that happens.
Would have hit Kurama and burned him forever until he turned to ash after who knows how long. Or he could've cut off his own tail that he would've blocked it with.
We saw it win against Cerberus.
Would have burnt A3 forever.
Would have done nothing to the Juubi's tails as it could shed it's skin.
Would have done nothing to the Juubi's attack.
We know how it failed against the Juubi and Juubito.
Would have done nothing to Edo Madara.
Would have done nothing to Juudara.
Was easily absorbed by Kaguya.
Would have done nothing against Indra's Arrow.
It's pretty clear that FRS as a whole is superior to Amaterasu. Even it's regular variant is more powerful than Amaterasu. It's harder for FRS to land, but if it does it is guaranteed death or defeat in nearly every scenario. However, in Amaterasu's case, even if it does hit there is a good chance it can be countered. Also, if we take into account the fact that Amaterasu requires an initial charge period. If a jutsu is executed as it's being charged and fired, the jutsu can slow the flames down and prevent it from reaching them: something that is much harder to do against FRS.

Reactions: Like 1


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 25, 2016)

@Isaiah13000

Majority of those examples involves flames that weren't even focused on its target. The essence of Amaterasu is the ignition of the flames on the target that its focused on, so the flames lack their potency when they're simply not the original target of those flames.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 25, 2016)

Isaiah13000 said:


> Anyone who has basic reading comprehension skills and has read this Manga from beginning to end will know that Amaerasu's track record is garbage in comparison to FRS and can be more easily countered in comparison.
> *Amaterasu's Record:*
> 
> Succeeded in quickly burning through Jiraiya's Kuchiyose: Gamaguchi Shibari that was stated to be resistant against flames.  Jiraiya then proceeded to easily seal it away.
> ...



I skimmed through this mess quickly, and all I can say is that it is based on subjective bias, misunderstanding and misinterpretation.

Example of misunderstanding/misinterpretation : You are comparing Amaterasu to  FRS variants SM Naruto doesn't have which has nothing to do with this thread. In otherwords strawman.

Example of subjective bias :  If FRS was used on Hebi Sasuke, he'd casually side step it. It would never land on him in realistic circumstances.
If FRS was used on A, it would never land.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Sep 25, 2016)

Pain using BT with one Path (Asura) pretty much pushed Kakashi to his limits. Pain using BT with one Path (Preta) defeated Naruto, who won because Nagato was incapable of balancing natural energy. Naruto not paying attention _for a moment _got taken down with God Realm alone using BT. 

Alone and with one Path, God Realm is a nightmare to face. Now Sasuke faces all Pain at full power... with Preta no Ninjutsu is going to work. Projectiles can be countered by other Paths... Pain will have a few ways to end Sasuke here.

MS Sasuke can't win.


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## Magnet40 (Sep 25, 2016)

To be 100% honest. Sasuke doesn't know much about Pain so pain probably wins. But if Sasjke had the charka in his MS days an he could hang around enough to see how Pain's ability works I think he'd win. 

I'm almost positive none of the pains are fast enough to dodge Ameratsu 

So if Sasuke knew what the absorbion path was capable of. He could just instantly light the rest on fire and go Hand to Hand with The absorbotion path. I'm not sure if the fire from the ameratsu fire would have the rinne dogs keep splitting or not cause it isn't necessarily a hit.


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## Isaiah13000 (Sep 25, 2016)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> I skimmed through this mess quickly, and all I can say is that it is based on subjective bias, misunderstanding and misinterpretation.


 In other words, I skimmed through this "mess" because I have no counter. Concession accepted. 



> Example of misunderstanding/misinterpretation : You are comparing Amaterasu to  FRS variants SM Naruto doesn't have which has nothing to do with this thread. In otherwords strawman.


 I am explaining how FRS is superior to Amaterasu. 



> Example of subjective bias :  If FRS was used on Hebi Sasuke, he'd casually side step it. It would never land on him in realistic circumstances.
> If FRS was used on A, it would never land.


 Except it would, due to SM Naruto's skill with Bunshin Kawarimis and the Kage Shuriken no Jutsu alongside FRS. I explained this previously, it's funny how you forget that.

Reactions: Like 1


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 25, 2016)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> I skimmed through this mess quickly, and all I can say is that it is based on subjective bias, misunderstanding and misinterpretation.
> 
> Example of misunderstanding/misinterpretation : You are comparing Amaterasu to  FRS variants SM Naruto doesn't have which has nothing to do with this thread. In otherwords strawman.
> 
> ...



That's not excluding the fact that Isaiah ignored multiple factors such as the execution of each technique, the effect FRS has on its caster, and displayed a significant misconception by applying Enton's examples to invalidate the effectiveness of Amaterasu. He continued to display an extreme bias by using Izanagi as an example of Amaterasu's failure when the * only known counter for it was Izanami. * That's a very explicit example that justifies Grimm's argument, only a select few abilities can counter Amaterasu outside of God Tier's.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Icegaze (Sep 26, 2016)

This thread lost track 
All in all every single one of sasuke Jutsu can be countered by either preta or deva 
As such sasuke can only loose here

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 26, 2016)

Isaiah13000 said:


> In other words, I skimmed through this "mess" because I have no counter. Concession accepted.
> [


There isn't anything to counter.
This is the equivalent of saying "2+2=5" and asking me to prove you wrong.
Your whole reply is based on misinterpretation, misunderstanding and bias. I just pointed out a few examples, that should be enough.



> I am explaining how FRS is superior to Amaterasu.


You can't do that by using both logical fallacies and strawman arguments. If you don't know what logical fallacy and strawman means then google it.
We've been over this, I am not going to spoon feed you like a baby. You should have learned some fundementals by now.



> Except it would, SM Naruto's skill with Bunshin Kawarimis and the Kage Shuriken no Jutsu


No it wouldn't.
Kamui exceeds both his and Tobi's S/T jutsu
Kamui exceeds both his and Tobi's S/T jutsu

Also Naruto's "bunshin skill kawarimi" and "kage shuriken no jutsu" are totally independant abilities from FRS, which have absolutely nothing to do with strength of FRS.  Again, abundance of logical fallacies, nothing to adress here.


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## Isaiah13000 (Sep 26, 2016)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> There isn't anything to counter.
> This is the equivalent of saying "2+2=5" and asking me to prove you wrong.
> Your whole reply is based on misinterpretation, misunderstanding and bias. I just pointed out a few examples, that should be enough.


 I'm losing my desire to even bother responding to your ridiculous posts at this point. 




> You can't do that by using both logical fallacies and strawman arguments. If you don't know what logical fallacy and strawman means then google it.
> We've been over this, I am not going to spoon feed you like a baby. You should have learned some fundementals by now.


 Your ego isn't going to help me take you more seriously. 




> No it wouldn't.
> Kamui exceeds both his and Tobi's S/T jutsu
> Kamui exceeds both his and Tobi's S/T jutsu
> 
> Also Naruto's "bunshin skill kawarimi" and "kage shuriken no jutsu" are totally independant abilities from FRS, which have absolutely nothing to do with strength of FRS.  Again, abundance of logical fallacies, nothing to adress here.


 They enable his FRS to land, and thus play directly into it's strength.


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## drew8324 (Sep 26, 2016)

ARGUS said:


> Sasuke stands no chance. Especially if he has no Intel
> 
> -- paths in formation means any ninjutsu gets absorbed. Genjutsu is inapplicable on these corpses and taijutsu of any form is suicide
> 
> ...


Why is Taijustu suicide Sasuke (even by the data books ikr they suck) is better than Naruto in speed even Canonically so his superior taijistu with speed aimed at the right points using nin-tai chidori strong fist combos at vital points or using lightning kenjustu I can see him blitzing a couple pains like deidara was but Deva and Asura propose problems


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## drew8324 (Sep 26, 2016)

I understand but Sasuke has shown to.be VERY fast. Faster than Turbo the Snail and that's fast. I can see Sasuke pulling out his sword of Kusaki and cutting apart to of PEYNs guys down and than deal with the Zoro path by summoning Pell to fight it and also use Aoda to help him out all trouble is Deva path and he just makes games and the Absorption path just wants to eat and Sasuke is fas enough keep all on they painted toes (don't forget akatsuki paint there toes and get them done at Kim's nail shop every Wednesday on LA Area and 5th and since is there 304th visit they get a free pedicure this time to get those bunions off for walking all day with those Ninshu sandals) so Sasuke wins


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## ARGUS (Sep 27, 2016)

drew8324 said:


> Why is Taijustu suicide Sasuke (even by the data books ikr they suck) is better than Naruto in speed even Canonically so his superior taijistu with speed aimed at the right points using nin-tai chidori strong fist combos at vital points or using lightning kenjustu I can see him blitzing a couple pains like deidara was but Deva and Asura propose problems


Nope, given the fact that Pein dodged FRS point blank after striking two clones and the fact that deva outran KN6 means that blitz is literally impossible

Add 5 more paths with chakra rods each against ssuke and he gets utterly destroyed just how SM jiriaya did

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 27, 2016)

Isaiah13000 said:


> I'm losing my desire to even bother responding to your ridiculous posts at this point.
> 
> 
> Your ego isn't going to help me take you more seriously.



I hope you do, because you are wasting both of our times.
I won't reply to logical fallacies and strawman arguments.

This thread has a specific title. You made a specific claim. I debunked that specific claim. Then you went off topic.
The debated ended when you went off topic.



> They enable his FRS to land, and thus play directly into it's strength.


No.
We are talking about firepower here. And you are bringing in irrelevant stuff that has nothing to do with fire power. Kagebunshin is a supplementary ninjutsu that has no link to FRS or anything for that matter.


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## Isaiah13000 (Sep 27, 2016)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> I hope you do, because you are wasting both of our times.
> I won't reply to logical fallacies and strawman arguments.
> 
> This thread has a specific title. You made a specific claim. I debunked that specific claim. Then you went off topic.
> The debated ended when you went off topic.


 Okay then.




> No.
> We are talking about firepower here. And you are bringing in irrelevant stuff that has nothing to do with fire power. Kagebunshin is a supplementary ninjutsu that has no link to FRS or anything for that matter.


 Yeah, we're done here. I won't waste anymore time arguing with you.


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