# Shanks Vs Mihawk



## Sherlōck (Apr 13, 2020)

​

Who has more plot relevance?
Who will go down first in the story?
Who wins in a duel ?


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## Lurko (Apr 13, 2020)




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## 青月光 (Apr 13, 2020)



Reactions: Like 5


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## Blade (Apr 13, 2020)

1 = shanks
2 = shanks
3 = draw


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## oiety (Apr 13, 2020)

1=Shanks
2=if Mihawk and Shanks team up after the dissolution of the shichibukai they could go down at the same time. Otherwise, Shanks.
3=Mihawk until further notice, extreme diff.


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## Light D Lamperouge (Apr 13, 2020)

Mihawk is the man hailed and introduced as the WSS on multiple occasions over and over again

Moreover, he is appointed as the goal of one of the main characters.

Stephen Paul's translation as well

If there are people out there that sincerely think and expect Oda to give one of his most important characters an empty dream and think that after the battle Mihawk's gonna say 'well joke's on you brah I am not actually the strongest swordsman ha ha ha', I am bewildered by that and don't really know what to say to those people.

Mihawk is a man who awaits a day someone will emerge to surpass Shanks, a Yonko, in order to present a challenge to him

a man who is hailed as the rival of a Yonko Shanks, and even superior judging by his title

WB hasn't heard Shanks' name in years implying that Shanks didn't fight any remarkable foe after Mihawk: not Kaido, not Linlin and of course not Whitebeard.

yet he still remembers the duels between Mihawk and Shanks.

The duels that were legendary in WB's own words 

Whitebeard explicitly said that he considers Shanks and Mihawk's duels to be legendary, in a conversation where he brought up legends of the previous generation like Garp, Roger and Sengoku.

He says 伝説に語りつぐものは少ない、お前と鷹の目との決闘の日々も俺の耳にまだ新しい - Very few people become legends, but the days you and Hawk-Eyes duelled are still fresh in my ears.
伝説に語りつぐ - being passed down as legend
決闘 - duels
日々 - days
耳にまだ新しい - still new to my ears

Earlier in the conversation, Whitebeard lamented that very few people remember the old era, bringing up Garp and Sengoku as examples. This carries more meaning now that we know that Whitebeard saw both the Rocks and Roger's era and was extremely familiar with other top tiers such as Kaido, Shiki and Xebec. For Whitebeard to say that he still remembers Shanks and Mihawk's duels from 10 years ago is an incredible compliment to both Shanks and Mihawk's abilities.

It's Mihawk that  immediately pops up in Shanks' mind when being asked about his scars, not any Yonko/Admiral/other foe, but Mihawk 

Mihawk is someone who has stated that he as the strongest will await at the top no matter how long it takes Zoro to reach it, years if need be

Shonen tropes indicate that Mihawk, until he is surpassed by Zoro, will be the strongest swordsman of all time, and Zoro upon surpassing him will become the strongest swordsman of all time as well. 

Shanks being recognized as an Emperor six years ago, does not mean that he wasn't as strong, or wasn't a top tier during his battles with Mihawk. 
Do you think WB would care enough to mention a duel between two high tiers? Out of all the possible fights he could have mentioned for Shanks WB chose to go with the one with Mihawk. 
In the databooks it was stated that  _even _with one arm his power is overwhelming.

The fact that he had to say even directly implies that Shanks suffered a drop in power, however minor it might have been.

In order to be a Yonko one needs a strong crew and territories. 
MF Gura yami Teach who had declared himself the strongest, who did the unprecedented by eating two devil fruits and was pulling off feats on WB's level, thus he was a top tier.

*Spoiler*: __ 







Yet he only became a Yonko after beating Marco and _conquering _territories left behind by WB. So strength alone isn't enough. You need lands. You need a strong crew. You need people to protect those lands.

Teach had to gather sufficient territories in order to be recognized as an Emperor, which the name itself implies.

Mihawk is the man presented in the current timeline as the strongest swordsman in the world, Shanks is presented as a swordsman. Mihawk is the one Zoro is aiming for, Shanks isn't. Saying Shanks beats Mihawk goes directly against the manga and what Oda has presented thus far.

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## Ren. (Apr 13, 2020)

Sherlōck said:


> ​
> 
> Who has more plot relevance?
> Who will go down first in the story?
> Who wins in a duel ?


1.Shanks
2.Shanks
3. Draw

I am here only for the wall of text.

And I got it:


Light D Lamperouge said:


> Mihawk is the man hailed and introduced as the WSS on multiple occasions over and over again
> 
> Moreover, he is appointed as the goal of one of the main characters.
> 
> ...



Nice, you took words out of sentences to prove what?

Wait Oda does only care about Story if he wants next time WSS is the weakest top tier and your English words from a Japanese manga will mean less than what they mean now aka nothing!

And neither Stephan or Den Den Mushi translation of words would ever decipher what Oda has yet to say!

Oda does not do PL in SBS> VC.

He doesn't do PL when asked by fans from Japan in SBS, why would he insert PL in cryptic statements that are again translated by multiple translators?


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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Apr 13, 2020)

1: Oh easily Shanks. Even if Mihawk finally steps up then he's still not the mentor and idol of the main character
2: I'd say they'd go down at about the same time with Luffy surpassing his idol and Zorro taking up the mantle of greatest swordsmen at roughly the same moment.
3: Dunno. There's nothing to say about how Shanks fights and there's not terribly much on Mihawk either. We've never seen Shanks fight before and you could argue we never saw Mihawk fight seriously before either.

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## Light D Lamperouge (Apr 13, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Nice you took words out of sentences to prove what?
> 
> Wait Oda does only care about Story if he wants next time WSS is the weakest top tier and your English words from a Japanese manga will mean less than what they mean now aka nothing!
> 
> And neither Stephan or Den Den Mushi translation of words would ever decipher what Oda has yet to say!


If you have something meaningful to say or add please do so. I am not going to do this with you again.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 13, 2020)

Sherlōck said:


> ​
> 
> Who has more plot relevance?
> Who will go down first in the story?
> Who wins in a duel ?



1. Without Shanks you could make the arguement that luffy would of joined the marines. Which would completely change the story. Although I personally think Luffy would still be a pirate just more conflicted about it as his relationship with Garp would of probably been better and he would fell more bad about betraying his wishes. Outside of that Shanks is a big player in the New world who has the juice to talk to the head of the world Nobles. Mihawk is just a strong swordsmen his role in the story is to be seen as a powerful threat to pirates in general but nothing beyond that.

2. Shanks as I expect Blackbeard to kill him before Raftel. It may even help next arc quite possibly.

3. Mihawk>Shanks. He is the WSS and Shanks isnt. Databook also supports the notion of Mihawk>Shanks.



Ren. said:


> Nice, you took words out of sentences to prove what?
> 
> Wait Oda does only care about Story if he wants next time WSS is the weakest top tier and your English words from a Japanese manga will mean less than what they mean now aka nothing!
> 
> ...



What are you trying to say here?

That the translators are wrong?


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## Ren. (Apr 13, 2020)

Light D Lamperouge said:


> If you have something meaningful to say or add please do so. I am not going to do this with you again.





Sherlōck said:


> Who has more plot relevance?
> 
> Who will go down first in the story?
> 
> Who wins in a duel ?


But I have no one asked you about PL?

Stick to the thread not to your WSS fetish!

One inspired the MC >>>> inspiring the MC.

I say none will die but Luffy should defeat him way before Zoro does so when Zoro faces the WSS Luffy already surpassed both of them.

None because Oda does not want either to win for the plot so a draw as it is cannon and you can't prove otherwise!


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## Light D Lamperouge (Apr 13, 2020)

Ren. said:


> But I have not one asked you about PL?


Umm, the question who wins in a duel is a question about who is stronger, aka PL. I know your comprehension isn't best, but that's clear cut.


Sherlōck said:


> 3.Who wins in a duel ?




I am not even going to dignify that drivel about fetishes with a response.


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## 青月光 (Apr 13, 2020)

Ren. said:


> This thread chuckles me every time.
> 
> 
> And  I explained this like 100 times.
> ...



Maybe I should read Tower of God 

I see it mentioned a lot.

The only manhwas I follow are Solo Leveling and the Gamer.

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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 13, 2020)

1. snitch
2. snitch (Zoros WSS duel will be post Final War )
3. mohawk

Reactions: Like 2


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## Veggie (Apr 13, 2020)

Shanks
Shanks 
Mihawk


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## 青月光 (Apr 13, 2020)

Prosperity comes from times of peace.


Let's share some booze like these guys

Reactions: Like 1


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## trance (Apr 13, 2020)

shanks
shanks
tie


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## GucciBandana (Apr 13, 2020)

3. It's most likely a tie.


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## Beast (Apr 14, 2020)

Shanks 
Shanks 
Shanks

Reactions: Like 4


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## Fel1x (Apr 14, 2020)

One piece fans are so sure about Shanks dying soon that Oda might pull a twist about it, leaving Shanks alive as long as it makes sense by any kind of shocking revelation

but yeah, the way series are going he will probably die soon (by soon I mean next arc or arc after the next one)

as for the thread:
Shanks
both
Shanks with extreme diff

Reactions: Like 1


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## Eliyua23 (Apr 14, 2020)

Shanks is more plot relevant being a Yonko who is more connected to Roger and more importantly a relationship with the main character 

Obviously Shanks will go down first because he’s an enemy of two big bads BB& Akainu and most certainly one of them will take him down to move the plot forward , he’s not a potential enemy so he must be sacrificed for Luffy’s character growth , while Mihawk doesn’t really have a major enemy will be needed for a big bad like a BB as a potential ally against the straw hats and the world government and has been set up as a enemy for Zoro who needs to get much stronger to face him so to me Mihawk will serve the same function BB serves for Luffy which means those fights will happen in the same arc meaning Mihawk will be around much longer than Shanks

Now I would give Shanks an inch , Mihawk will wipe the floor with him by the time this manga is over with though .


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## Turrin (Apr 14, 2020)

Mihawk > Shanks of the past as they were equals before and Mihawk likely improved at least marginally. However current Shanks we don’t know if he’s weaker, missing an arm, or if he is stronger due to developing another fighting style besides Swordsmanship as his main. So idk.


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## Seraphoenix (Apr 14, 2020)

Shanks
Shanks
Shanks>=Mihawk as by portrayal and feats he is superior

I asked Turrin about their conversation and it seems like Mihawk says a final outcome won't be determined because Shanks only has one arm. This means that Mihawk never actually duelled Shanks as a Yonkou and they drew in the past. Mihawk never actually tested whether Yonkou Shanks was weaker or stronger than the one he duelled with before. 

To be a Yonkou means actually conquering territories. We know from Law that the Yonkou fought for territory with WB as well. I find it hard to believe that Shanks would have stayed at the same level fighting in the NW against the other Yonkou. BM for instance knows that she can't beat him so they obviously fought with him to get to an assessment of what it would take to beat him. 

Look at the portrayal too. Mihawk admits inferiority to WB, while Shanks clashed equally with him when he was in WSM condition. Shanks had Jozu sweating and straining to stay conscious, while he no-sold a Mihawk slash and Vista was able to stalemate Mihawk. Jozu describes his haki as amazing or incredible, while not giving the same compliment to anyone else despite seeing people like WB, Admirals, Mihawk etc.


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## GrizzlyClaws (Apr 14, 2020)

1. Shanks, by far
2. Either they go down together against Teach or Shanks goes down first
3. Draw, can see either of them winning on a good day


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## shisuiuchiha5 (Apr 14, 2020)

Seraphoenix said:


> Shanks
> Shanks
> Shanks>=Mihawk as by portrayal and feats he is superior
> 
> ...



We haven't even seen Mihawk in a serious fight.

When shanks asked Mihawk if he came for a match,Mihawk stated that he has no interest in challenging a one armed man, pretty much treating shanks like trash.

Mihawk didn't admit inferiority to whitebeard.

Also mihawk threw a one armed slash in addition to which it was an unnamed attack

Shanks had jozu sweating and straining to stay unconscious?what bullshit,when did that happen?

Mihawk wasn't even looking at vista when they were fighting.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 14, 2020)

Ren. said:


> That is only the 3rd question not all the questions.
> 
> You inserted your pre-wall of text just as an excuse for that!
> 
> ...



Everything you just said is a bunch of headcanon. 

Mihawk>Shanks until Shanks proves that he does not fall under mihawks title. If that does happen then the question becomes who knows at that point we would have to just compare feats when they get it(assuming Shanks vs BB is not off panelled XD)

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## Ren. (Apr 14, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Everything you just said is a bunch of headcanon.
> 
> Mihawk>Shanks until Shanks proves that he does not fall under mihawks title. If that does happen then the question becomes who knows at that point we would have to just compare feats when they get it(assuming Shanks vs BB is not off panelled XD)


Everything that you guys say for 15 years is headcanon.

The canon part is that they never defeated each other PERIOD, the rest are the fetishes of the fans.

Shanks has the chance of getting off paneled as much as Mihawk by Shilliew LOL!


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Mihawk>Shanks until Shanks proves that he does not fall under mihawks title.


Only when a WSS title would prove to be above any top tier, or should I believe WSC > WSM> PK because a PK is just a man, WSM is the strongest man and the strongest creature is stronger than the strongest man?

That is the cornerstone of the WSS title, top tier with sword WSS top tier above that sword user, well yeah, well no!

Mihawk title has a reign since when, when did Oda say all those that have ever used a sword will be below that shall have the WSS title?
When was the WSS when Roger was in Prime when was the WSS when Ray was in Prime?
Where was the WSS title when WB was in Prime and Roger dead when was the WSS when Rox was in Prime when was the WSS when Garp was in Prime?

Where is the WSS when Kaido is in Prime?

WSM, for example, is that strong because WB had it not because WB was WSM, learn the difference.
PK was not strong because Roger had it but because Roger had the title, there was no PK before Roger became one and there was no PK after Roger was dead and there will be no PK when Luffy will be alive or after he dies!


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## Seraphoenix (Apr 14, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Everything that you guys say for 15 years is headcanon.
> 
> The canon part is that they never defeated each other PERIOD, the rest are the fetishes of the fans.
> 
> ...


The problem is they keep posting pictures of his title like it's Oda telling them himself when it is simply the in-verse perception like this:

Obviously Demaro Black isn't Luffy but he was perceived that way by people who didn't know Luffy. The boxes are merely in-inverse perceptions. Vista says Mihawk is the man 'known' as WSS. He didn't know that because Oda told him, he knew it because that is what the one piece world perceives Mihawk as.

We know from Mihawk himself that he drew with Shanks and didn't fight him again after he lost his arm. So while Mihawk won't fight him because of pride, Mihawk never beat him definitively. Add in that Shanks while losing power because of his arm, probably grew stronger when fighting the other Yonkou for territory and things get more murky.

The title isn't the get out of jail card that they think it is.

Also while Mihawk didn't want to fight him, Shanks was perfectly happy to fight him. Who knows better than Shanks about his abilities? If he thought one arm would be an auto loss then why would he challenge Mihawk in the first place? It's a pride thing for Mihawk nothing else.


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## Ren. (Apr 14, 2020)

Seraphoenix said:


> The problem is they keep posting picture of his title like it's Oda telling them himself when it is simply the in-verse perception like this:
> 
> Obviously Demaro Black isn't Luffy but he was perceived that way by people who didn't know Luffy. The boxes are merely in-inverse perceptions. Vista says Mihawk is the man 'known' as WSS. He didn't know that because Oda told him, he knew it because that is what the one piece world perceives Mihawk as.
> 
> ...


My opinion is as always a tie, nothing less or more!

An Ace vs  Jimbe style match.

A prime Two hand Shanks yep that is above Mihawk every day of the weak!

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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 14, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Everything that you guys say for 15 years is headcanon.



Mihawk being the WSS isn't headcanon



> The canon part is that they never defeated each other PERIOD



FALSE.

You will find no panels in the manga that state Mihawk never lost to Shanks or that Shanks never lost to Mihawk. It being ambiguous as to how there duels went in the past is not the same as it being stated they were all inconclusive or a draw.



> the rest are the fetishes of the fans.



What fetishes are those exactly?



> Shanks has the chance of getting off paneled as much as Mihawk by Shilliew LOL!



Not really as there is no current evidence that Mihawk will ever fight Shilliew.

Although if they do fight I agree the chances of it being off paneled is very high. This is oda we are talking about afterall.



> Only when a WSS title would prove to be above any top tier



This makes no sense. WSS title does not have to prove anything. It's simply a statement of fact. World Strongest Swordsmen is just that. How strong the user is completely depends on the Swordsmen of that era. If the strongest Swordsmen on the planet is Kinemon then he is the WSS.

Same applies to any other title.



> or should I believe WSC > WSM> PK because a PK is just a man, WSM is the strongest man and the strongest creature is stronger than the strongest man?



If we take the titles at face value WSC would be the strongest as it includes every living thing.

You can argue WSM does not include women or creatures such as Zunisha/giant sea creatures ect while WSC does.

PK is a title of authority and accomplishment not raw strength or in other words the PK title is not in direct conflict with other titles. If Kaidou becomes PK he would still be called the WSC for example.



> That is the cornerstone of the WSS title, top tier with sword WSS top tier above that sword user, well yeah, well no!



Technically no. WSS just means WSS doesn't dictate that the user is top tier.

Of course logically given the structure of One piece and how many people use swordmenship as a fighting style. The chances of the WSS not being top tier is low but going off the title itself WSS just means WSS.





> Mihawk title has a reign since when, when did Oda say all those that have ever used a sword will be below that shall have the WSS title?



WSS means WSS there is no special hidden secret meaning.

If you are a Swordsmen by odas *definition *because what me and you think are Swordsmen is irrelevant as we dont write the manga, then you are weaker then the WSS. To claim otherwise would be to say the title itself is false.

Same as any other title. If you qualify as a CREATURE. You are weaker then Kaidou.

But to answer your question specifically. Not every person who uses a sword is a Swordsmen, so in that regard mihawks title would not applie to him. Based on current info though it does applie to Shanks.



> When was the WSS when Roger was in Prime when was the WSS when Ray was in Prime?
> Where was the WSS title when WB was in Prime and Roger dead when was the WSS when Rox was in Prime when was the WSS when Garp was in Prime?



Hell if I know. What does that have to do with Shanks though?



> Where is the WSS when Kaido is in Prime?



Same as above.



> WSM, for example, is that strong because WB had it not because WB was WSM, learn the difference.



Yes as I went over earlier in this post a title is only that a statement of strength. WSM means WSM so it depends on how strong that man is in that time period.

What does that have to do with Mihawk though? Unless your trying to argue that Mihawk doesn't deserve his title I don't see the point your making here?



> PK was not strong because Roger had it but because Roger had the title, there was no PK before Roger became one and there was no PK after Roger was dead and there will be no PK when Luffy will be alive or after he dies!



Still not seeing the relevance here. 

None of what you just said changes the fact based on current info that Shanks is a Swordsmen by odas standards.

So unless you can prove

1. Shanks isn't a Swordsmen by odas standards

Or

2. Mihawks title is false as in hes not actually the WSS.

Then Mihawk>Shanks. There is literally no disputing that unless you believe one of those two things. So which one is it, or do you believe both? Once you answer that then we can get to the actual discussion that matters.

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## Mob (Apr 14, 2020)

Who has more plot relevance? Shanks

Who will go down first in the story? Mihawk

Who wins in a duel ? Shanks

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## Ren. (Apr 14, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> You will find no panels in the manga that state Mihawk never lost to Shanks or that Shanks never lost to Mihawk.


You have panels that no one won!



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> This makes no sense. WSS title does not have to prove anything. It's simply a statement of fact. World Strongest Swordsmen is just that. How strong the user is completely depends on the Swordsmen of that era. If the strongest Swordsmen on the planet is Kinemon then he is the WSS.


Again false WSC will be defeated by a non-WSC so your title as a fact will be wrong after Wano!



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> If we take the titles at face value WSC would be the strongest as it includes every living thing.
> 
> You can argue WSM does not include women or creatures such as Zunisha/giant sea creatures ect while WSC does.
> 
> PK is a title of authority and accomplishment not raw strength or in other words the PK title is not in direct conflict with other titles. If Kaidou becomes PK he would still be called the WSC for example.


Not it is not, he will be defeated by a rookie that will be PK that is the only fact that Oda will make.

Again those are not facts, Kaido was almost defeated by Oden, never won against WB and the manga puts WB through BM's statements someone that was not defeated after 3 days on a another level vs WSC!

WSC is this arc's loser FFS.

The WSC and WSM did not became PK, why because Oda made it so, WSS is not above Shanks because Oda made it so!

Oda can make WSS defeat anyone but he did not do it, why because he does not want that!


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Technically no. WSS just means WSS doesn't dictate that the user is top tier.
> 
> Of course logically given the structure of One piece and how many people use swordmenship as a fighting style. The chances of the WSS not being top tier is low but going off the title itself WSS just means WSS.


The WSS is a top tier but WSS does not make you top tier above Top tiers, feats do.

If Buggy becomes PK he will not be above Shanks just because of that!



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> WSS means WSS there is no special hidden secret meaning.
> 
> If you are a Swordsmen by odas *definition *because what me and you think are Swordsmen is irrelevant as we dont write the manga, then you are weaker then the WSS. To claim otherwise would be to say the title itself is false.
> 
> ...


There is no definition for a WSS and there will never be none as you want it to be no title is supreme if that was the case WSC would be PK and WSM would have killed Roger.

You know who we know it applies to Zoro, the rest don't even mention to the title so for you to convince me that they even care or are somewhat inferior you would need feasts and panels for that!
None give so I will not put some above another one because of an inverse title backed by no feats.



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Hell if I know. What does that have to do with Shanks though?


The point was about the titles in general!



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Yes as I went over earlier in this post a title is only that a statement of strength. WSM means WSM so it depends on how strong that man is in that time period.


WSM never proved that he was above a man called Roger so you want to sell me that WSS is above any top tier Swordman first you need to sell me WSM > Roger a man and WB is one of my favorite but good luck with that!


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Still not seeing the relevance here.
> 
> None of what you just said changes the fact based on current info that Shanks is a Swordsmen by odas standards.


Current info means lack of info, I don't drop conclusions on incomplete data when Oda will say that WSS is above all swordsmen in the manga and the WSS finished even the weakest Top tier then I will be the first that will put him above Shanks.

Roger defeated Rox and the never lost to WSM, WB lost to Roger and he never lost to Roger.

WSS never lost to Shanks, then well that is it!

If you expect me to believe that someone is now above another top tier just because he never lost to that one and then he got a title that we know nothing above, then sorry I am not going to give auto superiority above top tiers with the feats that WSS has!

Feats are king to me, hype is only for those special and important to the main plot!


Now I am back to TOG!


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 14, 2020)

Ren. said:


> You have panels that no one won!



No we have panels that people use to argue that buts it's never directly stated.




> Again false WSC will be defeated by a non-WSC so your title as a fact will be wrong after Wano!



Did I really just read this?

Luffy is no soloing Kaidou 




> Not it is not, he will be defeated by a rookie that will be PK that is the only fact that Oda will make.





Not even worth responding to seriously. You can do better then this Ren.



> Again those are not facts, Kaido was almost defeated by Oden


,

Show me a panel of Kaidou being called the WSC back when he fought Oden.

Don't bother it doesn't exist so this statement is irrelevant.



> never won against WB and the manga puts WB through BM's statements someone that was not defeated after 3 days on a another level vs WSC!



Saying he never won against WB implies they fought and kaidou lost which was never stated.

The Ace Novel goes over why WB had more respect among his peers then kaidou. If you want I can go over it but pretty sure you know what they are already. Ace novel also states Kaidou is the strongest.

Although it looks like we are getting to the actual meat of the discussion though. So am I to believe you think Mihawks title of WSS is false, yes or no?



> WSC is this arc's loser FFS.



So now we have resorted to Kaidou downplay to try and discredit Mihawks title 



> The WSC and WSM did not became PK, why because Oda made it so, WSS is not above Shanks because Oda made it so!



And? Why does that matter? We know how Roger became PK and it had nothing to do with being superior to Whitebeard or kaidou.

WSS is not above Shanks because oda made it so? Based on what cause I missed it.



> Oda can make WSS defeat anyone but he did not do it, why because he does not want that!



This can be said about anyone so what?


> The WSS is a top tier but WSS does not make you top tier above Top tiers, feats do



Top tiers aren't exempt from titles.

WSS means WSS it applies to Swordsmen nothing more nothing less. If X charcter happens to be a Swordsmen they are weaker then Y who has the title of Worlds strongest Swordsmen.




> If Buggy becomes PK he will not be above Shanks just because of that!



Agreed as being PK does not mean you are stronger then Shanks. WSS means that though.




> There is no definition for a WSS



Words have meaning.

The definition is the words themselves.



> and there will never be none as you want it to be no title is supreme if that was the case WSC would be PK and WSM would have killed Roger.



This statement makes no sense.

Roger and Whitebeard were equals as you well know. Roger became PK for 2 reasons.

1. Whitebeard didnt care to be.

2. Whitebeard gave Oden to Roger.

Has jack shit to do with the accuracy of the WSM/WSC titles.



> You know who we know it applies to Zoro, the rest don't even mention to the title so for you to convince me that they even care or are somewhat inferior you would need feasts and panels for that!
> None give so I will not put some above another one because of an inverse title backed by no feats.



More irrelevant statements.

WSS title isn't a popularity contest. Doesn't matter If a Swordsmen cares about it or not.

I don't need feats from Admiral Green Bull to know he beats Smoker. Feats aren't the only thing that matters.






> WSM never proved that he was above a man called Roger



They were equal and I don't recall Whitebeard being the WSM while Roger was alive. Maybe the ace novel said something about it but I havent read all the info about it.



> so you want to sell me that WSS is above any top tier Swordman first you need to sell me WSM > Roger a man and WB is one of my favorite but good luck with that!



So your argument is that Mihawk is not the WSS that's what I'm getting here?

Well no offense but I will take the opinion of the manga characters and the Databooks over yours.



> Current info means lack of info, I don't drop conclusions on incomplete data



We have plenty of data.

Mihawk is WSS. Shanks isnt that's all the info you need.




> *when Oda will say that WSS is above all swordsmen in the manga *and the WSS finished even the weakest Top tier then I will be the first that will put him above Shanks.









> Roger defeated Rox and the never lost to WSM, WB lost to Roger and he never lost to Roger.
> 
> WSS never lost to Shanks, then well that is it!
> 
> If you expect me to believe that someone is now above another top tier just because he never lost to that one and then he got a title that we know nothing above, then sorry I am not going to give auto superiority above top tiers with the feats that WSS has!



Ok cool so that's your main issue I'm glad we got to this point.

You don't like mihawks title it's a common issue people have I've seen it all the time. Nothing I can do to change your mind on that if you disagree with the manga and Databooks it is what it is 



> Feats are king to me, hype is only for those special and important to the main plot!



Hype is only for those special and important to the main plot 



> Now I am back to TOG!



TOG>One piece enjoy


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## Ren. (Apr 14, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Show me a panel of Kaidou being called the WSC back when he fought Oden.


After the panel of WSC > Prime WB, Roger Or garp!

LOL!

Now you want the WSC to be above them so the WSS can be above Shanks.

Been there done that, not worth the fight!


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 14, 2020)

Ren. said:


> After the panel of WSC > Prime WB, Roger Or garp!
> 
> LOL!
> 
> ...



Is Kaidou stronger then Roger, Prime WB, and Prime Garp? The answer is who knows. If kaidou had the title when they were in their primes then yes Kaidou is stronger. 

WSS is WSS has no relation to WSC. WSC title being false does not translate to WSS is false. 

But I agree this conversation of Mihawk vs Shanks is done to death nothing new is ever brought up just the same ole shit everytime that I've heard for the last 10 years.


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## Ren. (Apr 14, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Is Kaidou stronger then Roger, Prime WB, and Prime Garp? The answer is who knows. If kaidou had the title when they were in their primes then yes Kaidou is stronger.


LOL, who told you this, Oda is the one that made that title, Oda wrote the story of Monkey D Luffy becoming PK, not WSC.


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> WSS is WSS has no relation to WSC. WSC title being false does not translate to WSS is false.


Why would WSS be any different?
You make no sense, when did Oda even make a chapter devoted to that title?

What would he devoted plot importance to a title that does not benefit the main plot?

You guys are making no sense for the past 15 years.

This is not a manga centered on swords, this is not Gamaran or Samurai X or Vagabond.

Oda made the title for a  secondary character and only for him!

This is what you guys don't get, the quest as in the journey to the west, the cornerstone to the eastern literature it is not the sword in here if it was then Zoro would be the MC and he is not!

It is like the leader of the Arie family in TOG would be above Juhad because Arie is the best swordsman LOL!
Even if Juhad is a swordsman, plot dictates that Arie leader is not going to win because Juhad is the the cornerstone of the plot!


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 14, 2020)

Ren. said:


> LOL, who told you this, Oda is the one that made that title, Oda wrote the story of Monkey D Luffy becoming PK, not WSC.



Luffy becoming PK is relevant how? 



> Why would WSS be any different?



Why would they be the same they aren't the same title. 

Doflamingo beat Law(A Warlord) does that mean he can beat every other warlord to? 

Does beating Fujitora mean you can beat all his fellow Admirals?

Does beating Big mom mean you can beat all the other yonkou? Or that you can beat all the Admirals? 

So why would WSC title have anything to do with other titles? Trying to discredit WSS title because you think the WSC title is false is silly logic Ren. 



> You make no sense, when did Oda even make a chapter devoted to that title?



Why does he need to devote a chapter to the title? 



> What would he devoted plot importance to a title that does not benefit the main plot?



This is relevant how? 



> You guys are making no sense for the past 15 years.



More like the Shanks fans make no sense. 

If you have to try and discredit other charcters and titles in a manga just to make a arguement somethings wrong here. 

I don't need to discredit Shanks power or his titles to make the arguement that he is inferior to Mihawk. Can't say the same for Shanks supporters. 



> This is not a manga centered on swords, this is not Gamaran or Samurai X or Vagabond.



Never said it was. 



> Oda made the title for a  secondary character and only for him!



And? 



> This is what you guys don't get, the quest as in the journey to the west, the cornerstone to the eastern literature it is not the sword in here if it was then Zoro would be the MC and he is not!



Still not seeing the point? 

When has anyone ever argued that Mihawk is some corner stone of the manga or something? 



> It is like the leader of the Arie family in TOG would be above Juhad because Arie is the best swordsman LOL!



This comparison makes no sense. 

For starters the equivalent of Juhad in one piece is Im-sama certaintly not fucking Shanks  



> Even if Juhad is a swordsman, plot dictates that Arie leader is not going to win because Juhad is the the cornerstone of the plot!



Oh I see what your saying your trying to argue that Shanks is more important then Mihawk so he wins  

Robin is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Zoro in plot importance. 

Robin will never beat Zoro in a fight. 

The plot argument always has been and always will be retarded.

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## Seraphoenix (Apr 14, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Luffy becoming PK is relevant how?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just to correct you here Shanks is not Jahad he is Enryu. Even have the same hair color.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 14, 2020)

Seraphoenix said:


> Just to correct you here Shanks is not Jahad he is Enryu. Even have the same hair color.



Shanks wank knows no end


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## Furinji Saiga (Apr 14, 2020)

Wow very good most of the replies here are sensible. I'm shocked to say the least. 

Anyways.
Shanks is more important than Mihawk, this has been obvious day one, he is more relevant to oveall main narrative to One Piece than Mihawk so far, though I do think Mihawk will be revealed to have some role to play other than just to be surpassed by Zoro similiar to Shanks though obviously not as grand.

Mihawk will probably go down after him, since most here predict BB and crew will kill Shanks and crew, so the best case scenario is either they go down at the same time if Mihawk comes to help him and goes down with him, or Mihawk does not and is after.

In a fight, its a tossup. I think they were close to pretty even back then, Shanks lost an arm and had to adjust to fighting with one hand, so at certain point he was likely below, and then afterwards back to even as of the current timeline.

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## JustSumGuy (Apr 14, 2020)

If Shanks is stronger than Mihawk then Zoro’s gonna look like a jackass saying he’s the strongest swordsman once he surpasses Mihawk.


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## Light D Lamperouge (Apr 14, 2020)

Seraphoenix said:


> Vista says Mihawk is the man 'known' as WSS.


Vista never said that. In canon that is. In anime maybe.

But you know what. In fact Vista was happy that Mihawk knew him. A guy that fought against the Roger pirates was happy that Mihawk knew his name.


Seraphoenix said:


> probably grew stronger when fighting the other Yonkou for territory and things get more murky.


Which Yonko though? WB hasn't heard Shanks' name in years implying that Shanks didn't fight any remarkable foe after Mihawk: not Kaido, not Linlin and of course not Whitebeard. Shanks himself brought up Mihawk when asked about the scars, not any other foe.



Seraphoenix said:


> Obviously Demaro Black isn't Luffy but he was perceived that way by people who didn't know Luffy. The boxes are merely in-inverse perceptions.


If your argument here is that Zoro's dream is empty and will not be fulfilled, then I have no idea what to say. Mihawk has been confirmed to be the WSS in multiple sources, including the manga.

Oda has been very careful with dealing with the world strongest titles and world strongest title holders. Take a look at the situation with Kaido.

Oda on his own accord chose to differentiate between regular hearsay and actual titles. Nowhere in the canon material has Kaido been referred to as the actual WSC, there are always nuances being made to sway away from it.

Notice in the above panels how it's hearsay and a rumor, the same type of rumor like Luffy being a 25-foot-tall monster

Moreover, there are clues laid out that Kaido in fact might not be even human, and thus his supposed title should have no bearing on humans.

In addition, Kaido, in canon material, has only been referred to as the 'King of Beast', on multiple instances, whilst never referred to as the WSC

Now, I'll present a direct comparison with both Mihawk and Whitebeard. I won't elaborate here, because I've written everything in the panels themselves.

The quotation marks appear in the raw Japanese as well

Oda, on his own accord went out of his way to make a distinction.

No such things exist with the two canon titles. Oda went out of his way to reinforce Mihawk being the WSS in multiple sources. World's strongest titles are catered to with special attention by Oda. 

You have to argue against Oda himself and claim that he has been lying to us for 20 years if you want to claim that Shanks, who has been presented as a swordsman, is stronger than the World's strongest swordsman.


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## Ren. (Apr 15, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Shanks wank knows no end


Coming from a Zoro legion member, I find this funny 


Furinji Saiga said:


> Wow very good most of the replies here are sensible. I'm shocked to say the least.
> 
> Anyways.
> Shanks is more important than Mihawk, this has been obvious day one, he is more relevant to oveall main narrative to One Piece than Mihawk so far, though I do think Mihawk will be revealed to have some role to play other than just to be surpassed by Zoro similiar to Shanks though obviously not as grand.
> ...


Pretty much this, the plot dictates a tie!


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## Ren. (Apr 15, 2020)

Light D Lamperouge said:


> Vista never said that. In canon that is. In anime maybe.
> 
> But you know what. In fact Vista was happy that Mihawk knew him. A guy that fought against the Roger pirates was happy that Mihawk knew his name.
> 
> ...




You should go into politics, studying literature does not mean you can manipulate others with this and no extrapolating from even native Japanese text, regurgitated by Den Den Mushi that I proved again and again biased with several other translators in WG, without context does not prove your point when Oda made their PL equal before and let it ambiguous for this exact cancerous discussions.


You either have conclusive information from the manga or you are selling us BS!



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> More like the Shanks fans make no sense.


Good I am not one!



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> So why would WSC title have anything to do with other titles? Trying to discredit WSS title because you think the WSC title is false is silly logic Ren.


Why would WSS be that important, that is all hat WSS has, if you have read I said not title is important including the PK so keep up!

WSS being true or not did not make Oda put WSS above anyone!



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> For starters the equivalent of Juhad in one piece is Im-sama certaintly not fucking Shanks


Not really and not the point.

WSS has no remote relevanceto the main plot that is the point.
And I said if you want to prove his power then give me feats or hype of importance to the story, he has neither![="Donquixote Doflamingo, post: 61483767, member: 190367"]Oh I see what your saying your trying to argue that Shanks is more important then Mihawk so he wins[/QUOTE]
Interesting concept that I did not make, I said that WSS needs like any other top tier feats.

YOu trying to prove the WSC and knowing that he will be defeated this arc then discredit WSC because he will be defeated sounds cute but  desperate.


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Robin is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Zoro in plot importance.
> 
> Robin will never beat Zoro in a fight.


No she is not when the manga already had Oden, VOAT and 3 eyes tribe.

She is important to Luffy not the center plot!

Verry amusing concept when your own argument has the cornerstone as this: it is Zoro's dream so it must be true aka WSS must be true, reality WSS was never implied to make it above all sword users!


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 15, 2020)

Ren. said:


> You should go into politics, studying literature does not mean you can manipulate others with this and no extrapolating from even native Japanese text, regurgitated by Den Den Mushi that I proved again and again biased with several other translators in WG, without context does not prove your point when Oda made their PL equal before and let it ambiguous for this exact cancerous discussions.
> 
> 
> You either have conclusive information from the manga or you are selling us BS





> Good I am not one!



Doesn't seem like it.



> Why would WSS be that important, that is all hat WSS has, if you have read I said not title is important including the PK so keep up



You keep mentioning importance like thats relevant. Doesn't matter what you or i think is important that has no relation to the World Strongest Title.

If you want to argue that the WSS title is false thats fine but you need to do better then its not that important to the plot.




> WSS being true or not did not make Oda put WSS above anyone!



Of course it did.

Do you think Oda created mihawks character for shits and giggles? He could of just made Shanks the WSS or some other charcter. He made Mihawk and made him the WSS for a reason.



> WSS has no remote relevanceto the main plot that is the point.



Doesn't need to. Everything in the manga doesn't have to relate to luffys journey to become PK. Manga is called one piece not Luffy, other shit goes on in the world that has fuck all to do with him or the main plot line.



> And I said if you want to prove his power then give me feats or hype of importance to the story, he has neither!



Wanting feats is all fine and well but not having feats is not a reason to discredit Mihawks power or try and claim his title is not legit cause he has not fought anyone seriously on panel yet.

If you want to wait on feats before you make a decision on mihawk vs Shanks thats fine. What i have a problem with is people trying to argue that Shanks is not a swordsmen or that Mihawks title is not true. cause neither of those things are supported by the manga or outside sources.




> Interesting concept that I did not make, I said that WSS needs like any other top tier feats.



If you think that i cant convince you otherwise.

feats are not everything to me. They are nice but not a requirement to have.




> YOu trying to prove the WSC and knowing that he will be defeated this arc then discredit WSC because he will be defeated sounds cute but  desperate.



Kaidou losing via getting jumped by a fuck ton of people is not a negative in my mind.



> No she is not when the manga already had Oden, VOAT and 3 eyes tribe.



Oden is dead.

VOAT does not let you read Ponoglyphs.

Pudding can't either and even if she could she not a strawhat.

Robin is more important then Zoro you look silly trying to deny it. Nami, Chopper, and Franky are also more important then Zoro btw.



> She is important to Luffy not the center plot!



Um no shes important to both. Shes not just one of luffys friends. Without Robin Luffy would literally have no way of becoming Pirate king even if he had 20 Zoros in his crew. Luffy becoming Pirate King is kind of important to the main plot.



> Verry amusing concept when your own argument has the cornerstone as this: it is Zoro's dream so it must be true aka WSS must be true, reality WSS was never implied to make it above all sword users!



Mihawks title is true because the manga said he was with ZERO people disputing it. Find me a panel of anyone in one piece saying Mihawk is not the WSS or that he would lose to X swordsmen you wont find any. It was also outright stated in the databooks he was the WSS.

Manga/Databooks>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Your Opinion.

Also im questioning your ability to read right now. You literally just said WSS was never implied to make it above all sword users? WOW thats great no one is arguing that.

WSS=WORLDS STRONGEST SWORDSMEN. Which Shanks is if you did not know. You could try and argue Shanks is not a swordsmen but you would look silly beyond all belief.


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## Ren. (Apr 15, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Mihawks title is true because the manga said he was with ZERO people disputing it. Find me a panel of anyone in one piece saying Mihawk is not the WSS or that he would lose to X swordsmen you wont find any. It was also outright stated in the databooks he was the WSS


Find me a panel when someone even cared about it!

In verse, titles does not make them facts without any doubt!

The manga never put on panel WSS above any top tier.


There is nothing wrong with my reading because there is nothing to read, if it is then please provide the actual panels not mere words!


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Oden is dead.
> 
> VOAT does not let you read Ponoglyphs.
> 
> ...


Learn to read first ...


Ren. said:


> No she is not when the manga already had Oden, VOAT and 3 eyes tribe.
> 
> She is important to Luffy not the center plot!





Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> VOAT does not let you read Ponoglyphs.


Also that is what it does, this is how Roger read the poneglyph in Skypea!

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## Mylesime (Apr 15, 2020)

Regarding their importance to the plot, it's obviously shanks, even tough mihawk being zoro's master and benchmark, shanks rival , a shichibukai currently concerned by the in-verse politics means that he is also important to the plot. They should go down roughly at the same time, luffy and zoro's progression being linked.


  Regarding their strength as with all the other characters concerned by these types of debate in the lore of one piece, or any other fiction really, they are close in strength, and a clash could go either way depending on the plot.
That's the only way for the authors to keep milking these dynamics, agitating the fanbases in the process. They are on the same tier.... as with the yonkous, the admirals, the first mates, law and zoro, sanji and zoro, the hokages in naruto,the captains of the soul society in bleach, deku/todoroki/bakugo in my hero academia etc, etc


  And another new element introduced by Oda to keep on going with the ambiguity: black blades. Basically,  few swordmen are able to realize this feat, and the one who did are clearly depicted as the best of their era.
We can act as if it doesn't matter, but that would be intellectually disingenuous. Whatever the specifics the ability to transform his sword into a black blade is linked to the swordman ability and skills. Ryuma did it, mihawk has one, and we all know zoro will do the same with Enma. With the narrative regarding shisui's importance to wano's "karma", zoro being able to use enma so quickly partly because he already wield wado ichimonji crafted by the same master, the weapons collected at udon possessed by the souls of the fallen samourais, zoro's vow to kuina,etc, etc
Swords have souls and a swordman ability to connect with his weapon is a huge new element.

  We've seen Oden, we know of his strength but he died before doing so, even though we were told that he was the only user until zoro able to handle Enma.
Ashura doji and denjiro are strong but they don't have black blades. Gold roger didn't possess one either. We've seen roger depicted as stronger than Oden in panel in a clash of sword, but while stronger how many of us would say that Roger was a better swordman than Oden?

  Mihawk is a better swordman than shanks, that's a fact.
But we also know that there were multiple clashes between them, and that their duels were not concluded based on the way whitebeard talked about these encounters, if not this dialogue and the one between shanks and mihawk when they talked about luffy and zoro doesn't make any sense. How comes mihawk never finished shanks?
Shank must have had something to close the gap in skills, i believe haki.

Hell my younger  brother was playing "One piece pirate warriors 4" the other day.
Out of curiosity i watched him play, and seeing the two characters gameplays illustrates their development. The gameplay of shanks includes the use of a gun at one point. It's not canon of course but it illustrated the way the developpers, the fans, view both characters.
A clash between the two could go either way imho. That's the trick, hence the endless debate.
There is no clear winner in this matchup.


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## Red Admiral (Apr 15, 2020)

Mihawk fans try way too hard to dodge the OBVIOUS ...

Shanks out claim and out hype Mihawk in every possible way

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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 15, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Find me a panel when someone even cared about it!
> 
> In verse, titles does not make them facts without any doubt!
> 
> ...



Light D already went into great detail about mihawks title which i believe you already read. if you didn't go ahead and read it his thoughts are my own in this matter. We shall agree to disagree on that point as i don't feel the point you make have enough weight to them. For me personally you need some fucking really strong evidence to discredit Mihawks title. You have not even come close to strong evidence imo. Just head cannon and speculation.

Oden read the poneglyph for Roger. If Roger could read poneglyphs he would of never asked Oden to come with him in the first place.



Red Admiral said:


> Mihawk fans try way too hard to dodge the OBVIOUS ...
> 
> Shanks out claim and out hype Mihawk in every possible way



If Shanks hype is so great why isn't he WSS then?


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## Ren. (Apr 15, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Light D already went into great detail about mihawks title which i believe you already read. if you didn't go ahead and read it his thoughts are my own in this matter. We shall agree to disagree on that point as i don't feel the point you make have enough weight to them. For me personally you need some fucking really strong evidence to discredit Mihawks title. You have not even come close to strong evidence imo. Just head cannon and speculation.


That shit that he always spams in every forum now making it the 3rd one that I know about.
I even had to provide another native Japanese speaker that can debunk the WSS fan one that he was using, I am not going to that shit again ever!

I am not discrediting this title, I don't see any panel proving his point going for nitpicking because we lack information means that you are not objective but in fact just a fan!

Lack of evidence does not mean I should now believe fans' interpretation, I will go to the default stated in the canon aka they are equal.

I don't even understand how that made me a  Shanks fan when the majority here believe what  I said.


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> If Shanks hype is so great why isn't he WSS then?


Because having WSS title never was hype for the OP universe and the manga ...

All the hyped character are no related to that title!

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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 15, 2020)

Ren. said:


> That shit that he always spams in every forum now making it the 3rd one that I know about.
> 
> I am not discrediting this title, I don't see any panel proving his point going for nitpicking because we lack information means that you are not objective but in fact just a fan!
> 
> ...



You are discrediting the title.

There is only 2 options here if you believe Mihawk=Shanks or that Shanks>Mihawk.

1. Mihawk is not the WSS

2. Shanks does not fall under Mihawks title aka hes not a swordsmen.

if you believe those 2 things are false then it is a literal contradiction to state anything else but Mihawk>Shanks.

Now if your stance is i don't have enough information to make a decision thats fine, but thats different then saying Mihawk=Shanks. I don't know who would win in a fight Dragon or Kong, i lack enough info to say with a high degree of confidence. That doesn't mean i think Dragon=Kong. So if your stance is I DON'T KNOW WHO IS STRONGER. Fair enough i disagree but fair enough.

Mihawk and Shanks were never stated to be equals btw.



> Because having WSS title never was hype for the OP universe and the manga ...
> 
> All the hyped character are no related to that title!



So Oda made Mihawks character and gave him the title of WSS for shits and giggles thats the best argument you can come up with?


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## Ren. (Apr 15, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> You are discrediting the title.
> 
> There is only 2 options here if you believe Mihawk=Shanks or that Shanks>Mihawk.
> 
> ...


Only if Oda have said that!

Option 3 WSS is just a title and having it means that you are the peak of swordsman ship in that era nothing more.

You have the option to defeat all the other sword users but not the default, pretty simple as in any sports match in the world!

The champion is not the winner before the fight but only after!



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Now if your stance is i don't have enough information to make a decision thats fine, but thats different then saying Mihawk=Shanks. I don't know who would win in a fight Dragon or Kong, i lack enough info to say with a high degree of confidence. That doesn't mean i think Dragon=Kong. So if your stance is I DON'T KNOW WHO IS STRONGER. Fair enough i disagree but fair enough.


No Oda made them never lose to each other then separated them so I will go with the previous state they are equal until Oda makes them not equal.



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Mihawk and Shanks were never stated to be equals btw.


And Mihawk never was stated to be above him, what is your point?

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## Mylesime (Apr 15, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> You are discrediting the title.
> 
> There is only 2 options here if you believe Mihawk=Shanks or that Shanks>Mihawk.
> 
> ...



  That's the part i don't get in this debate. Logically speaking this is a false assumption in my opinion. Mihawk is a stronger swordman than shanks, shanks is a swordman as is raylegh and as was roger. That doesn't give a fixed ranking in term of strength of these characters. We can include a few swordmen to this discussion to illustrate that point.
  In real life for example, Floyd mayweather was a better boxer than connor macgregor as shown during their fight, connor macgregor is a boxer. It doesn't mean that mayweather was the better fighter: that's the same idea.

  For the sake of the argument, and to highlight this point we can use other swordmen, while i'm pretty sure that raylegh is overall the stronger fighter, i would not claim that in his prime raylegh was a stronger swordman than oden or vista. If the guy use kicks at some moment in a fight (as he did to block kizaru) , i have a hard time seeing mihawk doing a move like that against another top tier.
Or when raylegh used advanced armement to free caimie, i'm sure mihawk could do something like that, but i'm pretty sure he would use a blade.  
   I got another sports analogy, the strongest swordman is like the best three point shooter in basketball. Being the best 3 point shooter automatically make you one of the best player in the world/ of your era, but not necessarly the best overall player, cf stephen curry ( ray allen, larry bird, jerry west, etc). That's the same idea.
Mihawk is stephen curry, shanks is kevin durant. Who's the best?
Same idea.

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## Red Admiral (Apr 15, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> If Shanks hype is so great why isn't he WSS then?



Roger was strongest
Roger was a swordsman

Roger wasn't WSS

if Roger don't need this empty title ... Shanks is just fine 

cause Roger not being WSS of his era prove WSS is not about overall power


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 15, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Only if Oda have said that!
> 
> Option 3 WSS is just a title and having it mean that you are the peak sword man ship in that era nothing more.
> 
> You have the option to defeat all the other sword users but not the default, pretty simple as in any sports match in the world!



Ok now we just playing semantics.

All you just said is a different way of saying Mihawks not the WSS. If Mihawk can lose against another swordsmen in a fair fight then he is not the WSS. Zoros goal is to be the strongest in the world not the WWE champion where he might win or he might lose just depends.

If Mihawks not the strongest then Zoro can't be the strongest without beating him. This applies to Shilliew as well or whatever magical swordsmen people think will come down and kill Mihawk doesn't really matter who but at the end of the day whoever has the WSS has to be the strongest or the title is false. This is a manga not real life. If the author makes direct statements its a fact until disproved by other information.



> No Oda made them never lose to each other then separated them so I will go with the previous state they are equal until Oda makes them not equal.



That was never stated. It was said they fought in the past multiple times. it was never stated that Mihawk and Shanks never beat each other. Unless it was stated in the Ace Novel and i missed it, but it was for sure never stated in the manga.



> And Mihawk never was stated to be above him, what is your point?



My point is your making a false statement based on false evidence.

You said Mihawk and Shanks were stated to be equal. That is not true. Even if it was true it would still be false as Shanks and Mihawk fought over 13 years ago. Mihawk and Shanks being equal over 15 years ago is irrelevant unless you want to make the argument that both mihawk and Shanks have not improved at all over 15 years. Not a very strong argument for that one.



Red Admiral said:


> Roger was strongest
> Roger was a swordsman
> 
> Roger wasn't WSS
> ...



ah so you admit Mihawk>Roger good to know. 

Jokes aside we don't have enough info to make that judgement on Roger. Unlike Shanks who we know doesn't want a devil fruit, we don't know if Roger had a devil fruit or not which if he did would discredit him from being considered the WSS. He also used a Gun vs Shiki which implies he doesn't just rely on his sword in battle. 

Not sure what you mean by WSS is not about overall power. Do you mind elaborating further.


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## Ren. (Apr 15, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Ok now we just playing semantics.


Wait you were agreeing with Light that his all game is semantics LOL!


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> My point is your making a false statement based on false evidence.


You are making arguments based on lack of information, what is your point?


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Even if it was true it would still be false as Shanks and Mihawk fought over 13 years ago. Mihawk and Shanks being equal over 15 years ago is irrelevant unless you want to make the argument that both mihawk and Shanks have not improved at all over 15 years. Not a very strong argument for that one.


Yes Shanks became a Yonko, Mihawk never fought any know sword man: Vista, Cracker, Ray, Fujitora.
Sure prove me wrong with this one.

In fact remove Shanks from the equation and his place in the OP universe.

Now tell me about WSS and his feats and hype LOL!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Apr 15, 2020)

are people even having dount that Shanks is FAR MORE important to the plot than Mihawk


Mihawk only and only matter for ZORO STORY ARC ... and he done NOTHING for PLOT SO FAR

Shanks with only 3 panel 


saved Luffy life
gave Luffy his hat and set him on the road for being pirate king and overcome the world government
stopped Kaido and the war therefore saved SO MANY top tiers and armies life

and his story arc is not even started yet ....


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## Red Admiral (Apr 15, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Not sure what you mean by WSS is not about overall power. Do you mind elaborating further.



people claim WSS = a swordsman who is stronger than all swordsman

well ... if this claim was right ... then by ANY logic Roger SHOULD have been the WSS of his Era .... but he is not ... claiming he was is a fan fiction

so Roger not being WSS while being strongest prove WSS is not about overall power and should have other standards



p.s
most likely who ever unlock the black blade would be the WSS
fit PERFECTLY with plot
since it's a fan fiction , I wait on it ... but it fit

p.s 2

we know more about Roger fight style and power than we know of Shanks ... 
so not knowing enough for Roger but assuming we know everything for Shanks ain't fair


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## Ren. (Apr 15, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> ah so you admit Mihawk>Roger good to know.


LOL, this is why I say this is pathetic, those that you are agreeing with made this claim that  Zoro will be above Roger because of this :


Same logic, same BS!

Feats or bust!

And I am still not a Shanks fan, I am a WB, Garp and Roger one!
And WB is still not above Roger even if he was WSM!


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## Red Admiral (Apr 15, 2020)

Ren. said:


> LOL, this is why I say this is pathetic, those that you are agreeing with made this claim that  Zoro will be above Roger because of this :
> 
> 
> Same logic, same BS!
> ...



he said it was a joke ....

Zore would be greatest in terms of swordsmanship ... not strongest man who was a swordsman


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## Ren. (Apr 15, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> he said it was a joke ....
> 
> Zore would be greatest in terms of swordsmanship ... not strongest man who was a swordsman


For him it is a joke, just wanted to prove the point that he agrees with fans that believe so.

I just wanted to make that distinction from day 1!

I don't have a problem with WSS being even above Roger but with feats  not with titles!


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## Red Admiral (Apr 15, 2020)

Ren. said:


> For him it is a joke, just wanted to prove the point that he agrees with fans that believe so.
> 
> Just wanted to make that distinction from day 1!



people won't hate the idea of some one being above Roger ... many fandoms wish that ....

but Roger IS the KING

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Apr 15, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> people won't hate the idea of some one being above Roger ... many fandoms wish that ....
> 
> but Roger IS the KING


I don't really give a darn what they want, this is not for them to decide!

Oda did not make this manga to appeal to PL fans.

Plot is king for him.

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## Red Admiral (Apr 15, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Plot is king for him.



hail

*people are as strong as plot need them to be*

and it would be a WONDER if Plot need Mihawk to be the stronger one while Shanks story arc CAN be the next most important next to Luffy and involve with Prime Teach and WG

while plot wise the best thing Mihawk can possibly be is ... an ally to Shanks


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 15, 2020)

Mylesime said:


> That's the part i don't get in this debate. Logically speaking this is a false assumption in my opinion. Mihawk is a stronger swordman than shanks, shanks is a swordman as is raylegh and as was roger. That doesn't give a fixed ranking in term of strength of these characters. We can include a few swordmen to this discussion to illustrate that point.
> In real life for example, Floyd mayweather was a better boxer than connor macgregor as shown during their fight, connor macgregor is a boxer. It doesn't mean that mayweather was the better fighter: that's the same idea.



Ah yes i've seen this before its a common thing people bring up and to be frank ive discussed this to death, but since we have never talked before i will go over again. Before i respond to your post though i have a quick question. i see that you joined back in 2013 but you barley have any posts what made you leave the forums and then come back? or are you just a hard core lurker XD.

Ok lets start with this. Mihawk is the Worlds STRONGEST swordsmen, not the Worlds Most Skilled Swordsmen, not the Worlds Greatest/Best Swordsmen. The title of WSS is not a title of skill its a title of strength. Thats not to say Mihawk is a shitty swordsmen of course not but being the STRONGEST SWORDSMEN means you are the strongest in a swordfight not the most skilled swordsmen. How do i know this you might ask? Because Zoro plans to get the title of WSS by killing Mihawk. Zoro being a more skilled swordsmen then Mihawk is not a requirement to kill him. He could just be a lot stronger then him physically right? or a lot faster, maybe he beats him by utilizing his massive endurance abilitys, or perhaps Zoro overwhelms him with his black blade enma and its powerful COA strikes. All those things i just listed can be the reason for Zoro killing Mihawk. How does that prove he is a better swordsmen though? it doesn't. 

Now on to your question in a more direct manner you bring up the fact that Mihawk can be a better swordsmen then say Roger but be the weaker fighter just like how Mayweather is a better boxer but not necessarily a better fighter then connor. That is 100 percent true but in those cases that would be due to Roger having skills outside of a swordsmens power spectrum would it not? Connor is arguably a better fighter then Mayweather because he has other martial arts skills under his belt, he has training on ground fighting, jujitsu ect. What does Rayleigh or Shanks have that Mihawk does not? What does Shanks or Rayleigh have that they utilize that Mihawk can't do in a swordfight? COTC is the only thing i can think of but i highly doubt if Rayleigh fought and killed Mihawk with help from his COTC haki that people would say Rayleigh isnt the WSS cause he used COTC. 

So what exactly is it? Usually people try and argue that Shanks is some haki god so he is a better fighter then mihawk thats why he is equal or stronger then Mihawk. The problem with that is no where in the manga is it stated Swordsmen cant use haki or haki is bad to use, and we already established that Mihawks title is a title of strength not skill. So unless you think Mihawk and Zoro are going to fight and not use Haki which is a fundamental part of every high level fighters arsenal is just silly. If Zoro kills Mihawk in part due to his superior COA or COO he will still get the title. The same applies to Shanks or Rayleigh. 





> For the sake of the argument, and to highlight this point we can use other swordmen, while i'm pretty sure that raylegh is overall the stronger fighter, i would not claim that in his prime raylegh was a stronger swordman than oden or vista. If the guy use kicks at some moment in a fight (as he did to block kizaru) , i have a hard time seeing mihawk doing a move like that against another top tier.
> Or when raylegh used advanced armement to free caimie, i'm sure mihawk could do something like that, but i'm pretty sure he would use a blade.



Kind of went over all this above but just to state again.

1. Mihawks title of Worlds Strongest Swordsmen is not a direct statement of skill. You don't have to be the most skilled to beat Mihawk and you don't have to be the most skilled to get the title. Not in the way you are trying to utilize skill anyway. 

2. As stated above Haki is free game. As is kicks. Rayleigh did not do anything fancy there. Now if Rayleigh is some grand master kick boxer then ok sure if Rayleigh is fighting Mihawk and he is kicking the shit out of him left and right Sanji style then yes of course he would not get Mihawks title. Just like if Whitebeard picked up a sword and killed Mihawk he would not get his title either.

I don't like this term but the common term is Pure Swordsmen. Someone whos main and only fighting style is swordsmanship. Law obviously knows how to use a sword but if he fights Mihawk and beats him would he get mihawks title? I personally don't think so but i am just speculating. Oda has never said in the manga swordsmen cant have devil fruits and be the WSS i admit thats just my assumption. Anyway back on topic Rayleigh and Shanks would be considered Pure Swordsmen they have physical stats, haki, and a sword. Same shit as Mihawk. Fujitora has fucking gravity powers so i don't think he counts personally. 

Of course i don't speak for all Mihawk supporters so don't take my word for law but this is my perspective on things.

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## Red Admiral (Apr 15, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Ah yes i've seen this before its a common thing people bring up and to be frank ive discussed this to death, but since we have never talked before i will go over again. Before i respond to your post though i have a quick question. i see that you joined back in 2013 but you barley have any posts what made you leave the forums and then come back? or are you just a hard core lurker XD.
> 
> Ok lets start with this. Mihawk is the Worlds STRONGEST swordsmen, not the Worlds Most Skilled Swordsmen, not the Worlds Greatest/Best Swordsmen. The title of WSS is not a title of skill its a title of strength. Thats not to say Mihawk is a shitty swordsmen of course not but being the STRONGEST SWORDSMEN means you are the strongest in a swordfight not the most skilled swordsmen. How do i know this you might ask? Because Zoro plans to get the title of WSS by killing Mihawk. Zoro being a more skilled swordsmen then Mihawk is not a requirement to kill him. He could just be a lot stronger then him physically right? or a lot faster, maybe he beats him by utilizing his massive endurance abilitys, or perhaps Zoro overwhelms him with his black blade enma and its powerful COA strikes. All those things i just listed can be the reason for Zoro killing Mihawk. How does that prove he is a better swordsmen though? it doesn't.
> 
> ...



One being WSS when there are no WSS alive is one thing
you be WSS when WSS is alive


are two cases


if let's say a Yonko beat Whitebeard in one Vs one he would be WSM
but now that's his dead the standards are not the same


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 15, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> are people even having dount that Shanks is FAR MORE important to the plot than Mihawk
> 
> 
> Mihawk only and only matter for ZORO STORY ARC ... and he done NOTHING for PLOT SO FAR
> ...



People bring up the plot argument and i still fail to see how that matters in relation to Mihawk?

What am i missing here? If Shanks is weaker then Mihawk how does that change the plot? It doesn't as far as i know. So what does Shanks being more special have to do with anything? Oden is a way more important character then big mom without him Roger would not of been Pirate King. Does that mean oden is now stronger then big mom? Fuck no.

Now if you want to try and compare future opponents and be like well Shanks is losing to BB while Mihawk is gonna lose to Zoro. Ok thats a fair argument, but even thats really fishy as whos to say Zoro won't be stronger then Shanks and current BB? How would we even compare them cause lets be honest Shanks vs BB is going to be 90 percent off panel


Red Admiral said:


> people claim WSS = a swordsman who is stronger than all swordsman
> 
> well ... if this claim was right ... then by ANY logic Roger SHOULD have been the WSS of his Era .... but he is not ... claiming he was is a fan fiction
> 
> ...



Ok so what are those other standards exactly?

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## Ren. (Apr 15, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> People bring up the plot argument and i still fail to see how that matters in relation to Mihawk?


Well the argument is the same for you point!

Why would Mihawk been stronger than Shanks make the plot better?


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> What am i missing here? If Shanks is weaker then Mihawk how does that change the plot?


Him being weaker than Shanks the one that modeled Luffy, will not change anything.
Oda made Zoro's been the WSS not stronger than Shanks or Roger, see the point?

You guys are making that Zoro needs to be above anyone that has lived with a sword next to them not Oda!

Wait for feats, if Zoro will have feats above X or Y he will above them, or are you afraid that we will not have them, well that is not my problem there!


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 15, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Well the argument is the same for you point!



My point has nothing to do with plot or the story. I think it's irrelevant personally. 




> Why would Mihawk been stronger than Shanks make the plot better?



It wouldent and I'm not saying it is. 



> Him being weaker than Shanks the one that modeled Luffy, will not change anything.



I agree. 



> Oda made Zoro's been the WSS not stronger than Shanks or Roger, see the point?



Nah I don't see what your saying here. 



> You guys are making that Zoro needs to be above anyone that has lived with a sword next to them not Oda!



Your just projecting now this shit ain't about Zoro. 



> Wait for feats, if Zoro will have feats above X or Y he will above them, or are you afraid that we will not have them, well that is not my problem there!



I dont need to wait for feats for everything if you want to that's fine. 

I will still keep on saying mihawk>shanks until the day I'm proven wrong. If you want to ride the fence that's cool though that's your right.

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## Ren. (Apr 15, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Your just projecting now this shit ain't about Zoro.


If you say so!


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> I will still keep on saying mihawk>shanks until the day I'm proven wrong. If you want to ride the fence that's cool though that's your right.


You can say what you want that does not make it true or a fact!


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 15, 2020)

Ren. said:


> If you say so!
> 
> You can say what you want that does not make it true or a fact!



Is anything really a fact? 

We all live in a simulation anyway. Everything is without meaning or truth.


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## Ren. (Apr 15, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Is anything really a fact?
> 
> We all live in a simulation anyway. Everything is without meaning or truth.


Don't try to sound like me now, I am humbled.

No facts do not exist, that was my point so WSS is not a fact until it is shown to be one!


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## Mob (Apr 15, 2020)

This Nighty post sums everything up perfectly

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## Red Admiral (Apr 15, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> People bring up the plot argument and i still fail to see how that matters in relation to Mihawk?
> 
> What am i missing here? If Shanks is weaker then Mihawk how does that change the plot? It doesn't as far as i know. So what does Shanks being more special have to do with anything? Oden is a way more important character then big mom without him Roger would not of been Pirate King. Does that mean oden is now stronger then big mom? Fuck no.
> 
> ...




importance is not what we talking about .... plot role is the subject .... Oden plot role was the strongest man Kaido have beaten to take over Wano and he was strong enough for that .... people as strong as plot need them to be and plot showed not much of a respect so far to Mihawk by give him so few in terms of plot role and story arc. why should plot give more power to Mihawk when he don't even have enough story arc to use that power? 
Teach would be the strongest man in the history ... a man with 3 DF .... you really want to assume Zoro > Prime BB ... that's the riskiest bet you can make ... Zoro > Luffy make more sense 


I'm not good in fan fiction ... all we know as fact is that WSS being about over all power is not true and Roger is the fact for that... what are the other standards? well Idk ... 
maybe it's unlocking black blade
maybe beating last WSS
maybe beating all those who want this title 
maybe news called him that
one of this , black blade make most sense .... but we know it's not about over all power and that's all that matter


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## Ren. (Apr 15, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> Zoro > Prime BB ... that's the riskiest bet you can make ... Zoro > Luffy make more sense


Neah Prime Luffy > Rest so I disagree on that!

Luffy>Joy Boy and Im > Rest of the character that were made by Oda.


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## Mylesime (Apr 15, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Ah yes i've seen this before its a common thing people bring up and to be frank ive discussed this to death, but since we have never talked before i will go over again. Before i respond to your post though i have a quick question. i see that you joined back in 2013 but you barley have any posts what made you leave the forums and then come back? or are you just a hard core lurker XD.


Not gonna lie, lurking is somewhat more convenient, English not being my first language, i enjoy reading intelligent debate Xd.



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Ok lets start with this. Mihawk is the Worlds STRONGEST swordsmen, not the Worlds Most Skilled Swordsmen, not the Worlds Greatest/Best Swordsmen. The title of WSS is not a title of skill its a title of strength. Thats not to say Mihawk is a shitty swordsmen of course not but being the STRONGEST SWORDSMEN means you are the strongest in a swordfight not the most skilled swordsmen. How do i know this you might ask? Because Zoro plans to get the title of WSS by killing Mihawk. Zoro being a more skilled swordsmen then Mihawk is not a requirement to kill him. He could just be a lot stronger then him physically right? or a lot faster, maybe he beats him by utilizing his massive endurance abilitys, or perhaps Zoro overwhelms him with his black blade enma and its powerful COA strikes. All those things i just listed can be the reason for Zoro killing Mihawk. How does that prove he is a better swordsmen though? it doesn't.



  The fact that swordmanship is a fighting ability, primarly at close range, does make it almost mix the notions of strength and skills in my opinion. It's a physical activity, a fighting activity, that's why there is an ambiguity, like in sports being the most skilled almost automatically make you the strongest (cf roger federer, lionnel messi). So first, i must admit that in this case the 2 terms means almost the same, considering all the factors (haki, ability with the blade......it's more relevant than strength and endurance, even though it's still important for a top tier, i don't think that shanks or mihawk or zoro would ever be better than kaido or blackbeard in these departments). It's interresting to see that all the swordmen are almost built the same way (no WB, kaido, Bigo Mom,etc)
  I agree with your reasoning regarding zoro and mihawk, but we all know that zoro has to be the WSS so he can't afford to best him any other way (haki or ryo, physical stats, skills with the blade are all fair game), zoro is limited by the means he needs to use to compete, not shanks.
That's why shanks is not a stronger swordman than mihawk, the minute he would use a gun during the fight (hypothetical) he would lose as a swordman, zoro would rather lose an eye than use a gun in a clash with mihawk, i *could* see shanks "cheat" in order to win.
  It's worse, i'm a big sport fan, and i've always witnessed people say that roger federer or kobe bryant (may he rest in peace) were better athletes than nadal, djokovic or lebron, the same debate is used when comparing messi and Ronaldo in soccer. In a physical activity skills plays a big part, and sometimes even though results are split , people still tend to give the title of best to the most skilled of two phenomenons.
  In short in both instances mihawk could very well be considered the stronger swordman of the two while not being the strongest overall fighter. Keep in mind that it can only work when the two compared are very close in strength.




Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Now on to your question in a more direct manner you bring up the fact that Mihawk can be a better swordsmen then say Roger but be the weaker fighter just like how Mayweather is a better boxer but not necessarily a better fighter then connor. That is 100 percent true but in those cases that would be due to Roger having skills outside of a swordsmens power spectrum would it not? Connor is arguably a better fighter then Mayweather because he has other martial arts skills under his belt, he has training on ground fighting, jujitsu ect. What does Rayleigh or Shanks have that Mihawk does not? What does Shanks or Rayleigh have that they utilize that Mihawk can't do in a swordfight? COTC is the only thing i can think of but i highly doubt if Rayleigh fought and killed Mihawk with help from his COTC haki that people would say Rayleigh isnt the WSS cause he used COTC.
> 
> So what exactly is it? Usually people try and argue that Shanks is some haki god so he is a better fighter then mihawk thats why he is equal or stronger then Mihawk. The problem with that is no where in the manga is it stated Swordsmen cant use haki or haki is bad to use, and we already established that Mihawks title is a title of strength not skill. So unless you think Mihawk and Zoro are going to fight and not use Haki which is a fundamental part of every high level fighters arsenal is just silly. If Zoro kills Mihawk in part due to his superior COA or COO he will still get the title. The same applies to Shanks or Rayleigh.



  I totally agree with your understanding of the comparison between mayweather and connor.
And that's how i could see shanks or raylegh get the better against let's say mihawk and oden.
Again zoro will never use such tricks because his path and his creed is clear, he is one with his blade, akin to ryuma whose blade should literally stay in his grave according to Wano citizens, hundred years after his death, or akin to the way ringo's samurai blade generally stay near their graves.
I'm not talking about anything as extreme as kaku, but even someone like shiryu has disqualified himself from the contention in my eyes. It's simple what raylegh did in his clash against kizaru, i would have a hard time seeing someone like mihawk do such a thing with his kick. If during a close clash between two strong swordman, one of them use multiple haki charged headbutt, or jabs, or grappling moves he may win but i would still consider the other one as the stronger swordman.
*  In short there is clearly two categories of swordmen for me:
1) Ryuma, Oden, Mihawk, Vista, Zoro, Tashigi, Ashura doji, Denjiro
2) Raylegh, Roger, shanks*
  All the guys in the second list cannot make their sword into a black blade in my opinion. The stronger swordmen are Always from the first list the way i see it. I could make a third one with shiryu, fujitora, and let's say law, kanjuro, while stronger swordmen than the men of the second list, they too cannot wish to be considered as the strongest swordmen. Shilliew talked about his sword need of blood for example.
 There is a philosphy attached to it, a way of life, and the concept of souls developped in wano add to that mystic.For me any swordman who tend to distance himself from pure swordmanship is admiting a weakness in a sense. He's trying to compensate, every solution to zoro's problems is linked to a sword.
Without being too extreme with raylegh using kickboxing literraly, the use of a gun for example would be a clear Indicator, an admission of inferiority. I can see roger, raylegh, or shanks use guns, i could never imagine mihawk, zoro or Oden do that, there lies the difference for me.
But i guess it's confusing because all of these guys are strong as fuck, and Oda does it on purpose. It's a matter of perception, i get what you're saying, i Don't agree totally, but it's not clear, most of these guys are on the same tier anyway.
  Oden, mihawk, raylegh in his prime, shanks, zoro EOS are all on the same tier for me, but if i had to make  rankings, the ranking regarding which one is the strongest fighter and another one regarding which one is the strongest swordman would not be the same.
For you there would be only one ranking, i get it, different perspective.
Thanks for having elaborated for the 100 th time Xd.

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## Red Admiral (Apr 15, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Neah Prime Luffy > Rest so I disagree on that!
> 
> Luffy>Joy Boy and Im > Rest of the character that were made by Oda.



Luffy is still a human .... 

but Teach is a freak ... in full power with 3 awaking ... now that's ....

main Villain > Hero ... even if he be beaten 

but I guess it's subject for another time


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## Ren. (Apr 15, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> Luffy is still a human ....
> 
> but Teach is a freak ... in full power with 3 awaking ... now that's ....
> 
> ...


Not really, Regular humans are above freaks in manga every time.

And Luffy will be a freak that will use an ancient power similar to Joy Boy surpassing BB in every stats.


Who told you that main villain > Hero, if that was the case then Main Villain would win and this is Shonen!

If you expect BB to be above Luffy at his peak, you will be disappointed, you can quote me on this when OP ends.


Mylesime said:


> Not gonna lie, lurking is somewhat more convenient, English not being my first language, i enjoy reading intelligent debate Xd.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It is a shame that you don't post more!


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 15, 2020)

Mylesime said:


> Not gonna lie, lurking is somewhat more convenient, English not being my first language, i enjoy reading intelligent debate Xd.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I get what your saying and I dont disagree with your logic I just disagree with the assertion your making is all. 

You separated Roger, Rayleigh, and Shanks from the first group but in my mind they should be in the first group. I personally dont see enough evidence to separate them. I would separate law, shiki, kaku, and Fujitora sure. Roger, Rayleigh, and Shanks not currently. 

But I respect your opinion on this and like I said I agree with the logic behind your arguement. I just don't feel there is enough evidence to support it currently. It is very possible. Nothing is set in stone yea. For all we know Shanks has a devil fruit, hell for all we know Mihawk has a mythical Zoan Dracula fruit. Not like odas ever said Mihawk doesnt have a devil fruit.  

I dont think he does but I'm just saying nothings set in stone. Oda could give Shanks and Mihawk devil fruits or x/y ability and we cant say shit about it cause he never put restrictions on either of them. Well shanks did say he didnt want to eat a DF but that was 15 years ago people change.


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## CaptainCommanderRenji (Apr 15, 2020)

Until proven otherwise I will always bet on Yonko Shanks > Mihawk > young Mihawk ~ young Shanks. Simply because Shanks is much more important as a character.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Sabco (Apr 15, 2020)

Mihawk wins high diff


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## Red Admiral (Apr 15, 2020)

@Light D Lamperouge  if you have any argument that is not based on your fan fiction about Roger was WSS ...

I'm more than glad to know your other fan fiction about WSS meaning

cause as I explained Roger DESTROY Zoro fandom sad fan fictions about WSS is over all power related


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## Seraphoenix (Apr 15, 2020)

Light D Lamperouge said:


> Vista never said that. In canon that is. In anime maybe.
> 
> But you know what. In fact Vista was happy that Mihawk knew him. A guy that fought against the Roger pirates was happy that Mihawk knew his name.
> 
> Which Yonko though? WB hasn't heard Shanks' name in years implying that Shanks didn't fight any remarkable foe after Mihawk: not Kaido, not Linlin and of course not Whitebeard. Shanks himself brought up Mihawk when asked about the scars, not any other foe.


-Law said they all skirmished for territory with WB. So the years things is irrelevant. What is relevant is that Shanks did fight for territory with WB
-Also like I said BM likely fought him too given she knows what it takes to beat him
-He also skirmished with Kaido on the way to MF. 

WB not hearing his name in years is therefore irrelevant. Not everything makes the news like duels that WB implied he witnessed himself. 




Light D Lamperouge said:


> If your argument here is that Zoro's dream is empty and will not be fulfilled, then I have no idea what to say. Mihawk has been confirmed to be the WSS in multiple sources, including the manga.


Emotional argument. Irrelevant.

You are parroting that his title is word of god and I've shown you that it is merely the perception in the One Piece World. Not only that but it's pretty obvious that you gain a title, not because Oda tells every character that x person has a title, but that that person does something to be recognised with that title. People in the One Piece World recognise Roger as PK because he did shit to be recognised as such. It's the in-verse perception. So when Oda says Roger was PK he is referencing that title born out of perception.

That is completely different from Oda the author telling people outside the manga that x person is strongest. I will get to that in a moment though. 


Light D Lamperouge said:


> Oda has been very careful with dealing with the world strongest titles and world strongest title holders. Take a look at the situation with Kaido.
> 
> Oda on his own accord chose to differentiate between regular hearsay and actual titles. Nowhere in the canon material has Kaido been referred to as the actual WSC, there are always nuances being made to sway away from it.
> 
> ...


Your whole argument is based us accepting a deductive argument as sound(premises are true), namely:
-Mihawk is WSS according to word of god from the author
-Shanks is a swordsman
-Therefore Shanks is weaker than Mihawk

The first two premises have little evidence so you all fail with this propaganda. 

*Mihawk is WSS according to word of god from the author:*

I already showed that is title is the in-verse perception rather than a word of god author statement. Moreover, looking at the proper translation of their conversation, Mihawk himself confirms that they drew in the past and no final decision of who is stronger can be reached because Shanks lost his arm. Mihawk doesn't want to fight a one-armed swordsman, while Shanks, fully aware of his capabilities thinks it would be a good match. 

Your whole discussion about differences in how Oda presented these titles is also hilarious. Let's take a look at SBS 83:


*D: Odacchi!! In the sbs from volume 82 you told us how to escape from Akainu, bears, ghosts and the like. But when I try to do this before my angered mother I'm just beaten up... Is my mother stronger than Akainu?* P.N. Star Fairy

*O:* You better watch out! you're being too brash! *A mother is the strongest living being in the world, even stronger than Kaido*!! Don't you dare do it again! But, you know, your mother loves you more than anyone else.

Here is what you want for WB and Mihawk but never got. The author himself confirms that Kaido is the benchmark for strength amongst living things. This is entirely different from the in-verse titles we've see with WB and Mihawk. The author is confirming outside the manga that Kaido is>

*Shanks is a swordsman*

We haven't even seen the man fight yet. Oda despite giving him a sword, wasn't sure how he fights. Not only that, the word kenshi itself comprises of two words. One that means swordfighter and the other akin to 'knight'. For instance Zoro says a 'scar on the back is a swordsman's shame' implying there is some code with swordsman. We have no idea if Shanks subscribes to this. Oda has referred to Fujitora as a swordsman but not once in over 20 years did he do the same for Shanks.

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## Ren. (Apr 15, 2020)

Seraphoenix said:


> *O:* You better watch out! you're being too brash! *A mother is the strongest living being in the world, even stronger than Kaido*!! Don't you dare do it again! But, you know, your mother loves you more than anyone else.
> 
> Here is what you want for WB and Mihawk but never got. The author himself confirms that Kaido is the benchmark for strength amongst living things. This is entirely different from the in-verse titles we've see with WB and Mihawk. The author is confirming outside the manga that Kaido is>


Neah that is fine for a bit but you really want what are feats that put him above actual top tiers.

Or the actual top tiers to put you above them.

Like BM and Kaido did with WB!

Reactions: Like 1


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## killfox (Apr 15, 2020)

As much as people don’t like it creator words > any head cannon someone might have


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## Red Admiral (Apr 15, 2020)

killfox said:


> As much as people don’t like it creator words > any head cannon someone might have


what "words"?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Apr 15, 2020)

killfox said:


> As much as people don’t like it creator words > any head cannon someone might have


Not really PL debate is done with panels and feats.

Also if the author says the sky is blue and colors it green then it is green and Oda never said what the WSS means or that Shanks is below Mihawk so there are no author words.

*O:* You better watch out! you're being too brash! *A mother is the strongest living being in the world, even stronger than Kaido*!! Don't you dare do it again! But, you know, your mother loves you more than anyone else.

Also Oda said this so I guess my mom is > Kaido LOL!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Apr 15, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Not really PL debate is done with panels and feats.
> 
> Also if the author says the sky is blue and colors it green then it is green and Oda never said what the WSS means or that Shanks is below Mihawk so there are no author words.



any one read one piece can see Shanks hype is on another galaxy compare to Lihawk


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## Light D Lamperouge (Apr 15, 2020)

Seraphoenix said:


> -Law said they all skirmished for territory with WB. So the years things is irrelevant. What is relevant is that Shanks did fight for territory with WB
> -Also like I said BM likely fought him too given she knows what it takes to beat him


> Skirmishing for territory does not equal fighting WB. WB wouldn't have questioned Shanks about his arm if he had seen him before.
> Linlin and Kaido haven't seen each other in decades and Linlin knew what it takes to beat Kaido as well.




Seraphoenix said:


> -He also skirmished with Kaido on the way to MF.


Irrelevant. Him stopping Kaido on the way to MF did not power him up before.




Seraphoenix said:


> WB not hearing his name in years is therefore irrelevant.


Nope. Try again.




Seraphoenix said:


> Emotional argument. Irrelevant.


Concession accepted. I am asking you to tell me if the author is lying to us. The fact that you are ducking the answer shows that you know what you are saying is preposterous.




Seraphoenix said:


> Your whole discussion about differences in how Oda presented these titles is also hilarious. Let's take a look at SBS 83:
> 
> 
> *D: Odacchi!! In the sbs from volume 82 you told us how to escape from Akainu, bears, ghosts and the like. But when I try to do this before my angered mother I'm just beaten up... Is my mother stronger than Akainu?* P.N. Star Fairy
> ...


I knew you'd bring this up. That sbs did not confirm anything. That is the official Viz translation. Even though they are similar, there are small nuances that make it different, such as 'even Kaido' not appearing. Moreover, Oda says world's strongest creature, not living being. In addition, he leaves no doubts to a mother actually being the WSC. He highlights it by saying she is stronger than Kaido, the supposed WSC, and she is thus the actual WSC. There's no room to debate about anything concerning the mother, as opposed to Kaido.



Seraphoenix said:


> You are parroting that his title is word of god and I've shown you that it is merely the perception in the One Piece World. Not only that but it's pretty obvious that you gain a title, not because Oda tells every character that x person has a title, but that that person does something to be recognised with that title. People in the One Piece World recognise Roger as PK because he did shit to be recognised as such. It's the in-verse perception. So when Oda says Roger was PK he is referencing that title born out of perception.





Seraphoenix said:


> I already showed that is title is the in-verse perception rather than a word of god author statement.


Your argument is that Demaro who appeared after we had already seen Luffy on his island, is actually Luffy, and that is the reason Mihawk isn't the WSS. I already showed you how the strongest title holders are dealt with. Mihawk himself confirmed that he will stand atop as the strongest until Zoro reaches him. Oda confirmed Mihawk being the strongest in the manga, databooks, vivre cards, etc.
If we follow your argument it also points that Mihawk the wss, did something no other swordsman did, including Shanks. There is no reason for us to suspect the titles which Oda himself puts in his own manga, until he does something to contradict the said titles. And Mihawk's title is very clear. Mihawk is WSS in actuality and entirety.




Seraphoenix said:


> *Shanks is a swordsman*
> 
> We haven't even seen the man fight yet. Oda despite giving him a sword, wasn't sure how he fights. Not only that, the word kenshi itself comprises of two words. One that means swordfighter and the other akin to 'knight'. For instance Zoro says a 'scar on the back is a swordsman's shame' implying there is some code with swordsman. We have no idea if Shanks subscribes to this. Oda has referred to Fujitora as a swordsman but not once in over 20 years did he do the same for Shanks.



[/SPOILER]
Mihawk is
"Strongest Swordsman in the World"
_Sekai Saikyō no Kenshi -_ 世界最強の剣士

*Spoiler*: __ 







Shanks' swordsmanship highlighted here as well and again pointing out Mihawk is the n1 swordsman.

Shanks preparing for a fight, clashing/fighting, on panel pulls out his sword every time, he must be nerfing himself. Right?

*Spoiler*: __ 













Honestly, I am sick and tired of debating this again and again. Agree to disagree. It's obvious we won't change each others minds, and the sort. I won't bother responding in this thread any more.

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## Red Admiral (Apr 15, 2020)

Light D Lamperouge said:


> > Skirmishing for territory does not equal fighting WB. WB wouldn't have questioned Shanks about his arm if he had seen him before.
> > Linlin and Kaido haven't seen each other in decades and Linlin knew what it takes to beat Kaido as well.
> 
> 
> ...



it doesn't matter what some random ass translator say ... 

in Oda story WSS is not about over all power

Roger is the walking proof

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Apr 15, 2020)

Seraphoenix said:


> -Law said they all skirmished for territory with WB. So the years things is irrelevant. What is relevant is that Shanks did fight for territory with WB
> -Also like I said BM likely fought him too given she knows what it takes to beat him
> -He also skirmished with Kaido on the way to MF.
> 
> ...





Light D Lamperouge said:


> > Skirmishing for territory does not equal fighting WB. WB wouldn't have questioned Shanks about his arm if he had seen him before.
> > Linlin and Kaido haven't seen each other in decades and Linlin knew what it takes to beat Kaido as well.
> 
> 
> ...




Me: EQUAL and yeah Fictional characters.

Panels or bust 
Here:

*Spoiler*: __ 











You want Oda's words then give me this:


This is how you do it!

Reactions: Like 1


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## killfox (Apr 15, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Not really PL debate is done with panels and feats.
> 
> *Also if the author says the sky is blue and colors it green then it is green *and Oda never said what the WSS means or that Shanks is below Mihawk so there are no author words.
> 
> ...


Can u give me an example? Also I was talking about the Kaido thing. Clearly he means Kaido is the strongest or else why use the reference? He could have used any character even whitebeard.

As far as WSS tho I always believed Shanks was stronger but that’s my opinion.


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## Red Admiral (Apr 15, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Me: EQUAL and yeah Fictional characters.
> 
> Panels or bust
> Here:



for a LONG TIME so many people consider Doffy above Mihawk

simply cause in terms of on screen hype and shine moment ... Doffu out classed Mihawk ... now that's just sad


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## Ren. (Apr 15, 2020)

killfox said:


> Can u give me an example? Also I was talking about the Kaido thing. Clearly he means Kaido is the strongest or else why use the reference? He could have used any character even whitebeard.
> 
> As far as WSS tho I always believed Shanks was stronger but that’s my opinion.


 
You need more of this on consistent order!


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## killfox (Apr 15, 2020)

Ren. said:


> You need more of this on consistent order!


Do you have proof she was wrong?

Also that’s funny as in character statements  from characters somehow = creator interviews?


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## Ren. (Apr 15, 2020)

killfox said:


> Do you have proof she was wrong?
> 
> Also that’s funny as in character statements  from characters somehow = creator interviews?


Well let's say this, why would she say that someone is above her, with her own ego?
Why would Roger never defeat him, why would anyone say it was his era, etc.

This is how you hype a character!


ADD with Sengoku saying he can end the world.

Then add all the portrait that is added with each arc.

This is how an author uses a statement to prove a character's PL!

When Oda wants to portrait someone exception he does it bluntly:

*Spoiler*: __ 













killfox said:


> Clearly he means Kaido is the strongest or else why use the reference? He could have used any character even whitebeard.


Simple WB was dead and old, you didn't know his power and you still don't!

Kaido was the next big thing, there are many ways to explain it!

If Kaido is the strongest then Luffy defeats the strongest ever meaning the next enemy is weaker?


If you need to nitpick statements as Light does, to say someone is the strongest ever, it usually never is, constant portrait and hype from start to end are what the stronger have and there can be exceptions like Im but someone present from chapter 50, that has fewer panels that some tertiary characters in an arc will never be the strongest just because fans like him!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Apr 15, 2020)

killfox said:


> Do you have proof she was wrong?
> 
> Also that’s funny as in character statements  from characters somehow = creator interviews?



when characters are well informed on that subject ... yeap ... it's as canon as creator words cause IT IS creator words


Big Mom been an active pirate for 60 years who know Whitebeard full power and any other top tier VERY WELL

can be a PERFECT JUDGE of power level


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## killfox (Apr 15, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Well let's say this, why would she say that someone is above her, with her own ego?
> Why would Roger never defeat him, why would anyone say it was his era, etc.


Did she every day” Damn WHITEBEARD was stronger than me shit!” Or anything along those lines? Or did she show respect? Also your post contradicts itself. She put herself below WB but on the panel I showed she says she would have defeated him long ago if “insert here”.

The yonkou were always at a stalemate. Neither of the Yonkou has the edge on another BM with additional forces under her command felt she could have had enough power to take them down decisively.



Ren. said:


> This is how you hype a character!
> 
> 
> ADD with Sengoku saying he can end the world.
> ...


Not sure what your trying to prove here are u arguing for or against Mihawk? Mihawk doesn’t have anywhere close this level of hype. Shanks does tho. Also as hype as those pics are in the same situation BM and Kaido wouldn’t have died.

Kaido is hype also as he was captured and they tried to behead him but it didn’t work. WB would get beheaded like Gol D Roger was  Kaido however survived multiple execution attempts after being *CAPTURED*
WB was hurt by bullets cannon balls and swords; all of which would have 0 effect on BM or Kaido. So while I agree WB had huge hype, BM and Kaido do as well just a different type.



Ren. said:


> Simple WB was dead and old, you didn't know his power and you still don't!


Yes he was dead but he was still known as the strongest man in the world. How do we not know his power when that was manga fact? I think what u mean today is he didn’t go all out, which is irrelevant because u said I don’t his power. Everyone who reads the manga knows how strong WB is and the creator (as you posted ) showed many examples. So to say
*“you didn't know his power and you still don't!*” is absolutely wrong.


Ren. said:


> Kaido was the next big thing, there are many ways to explain it!


So your agreeing that Kaido is the next best after WHITEBEARD?


Ren. said:


> If Kaido is the strongest then Luffy defeats the strongest ever meaning the next enemy is weaker?


This almost seems to imply you believe Luffy will solo Kaido. Just because u get help to defeat someone doesn’t mean your stronger than them.

Kaido could go down this arc with team work and Luffy could fight an admiral solo next arc does that mean the admiral Luffy fights is stronger than Kaido? Not at all it simply means Luffy is growing to a level where he can fight top tiers alone. He obviously not at that level yet.


Ren. said:


> If you need to nitpick statements as Light does, to say someone is the strongest ever, it usually never is, constant portrait and hype from start to end are what the stronger have and there can be exceptions like Im but someone present from chapter 50, that has fewer panels that some tertiary characters in an arc will never be the strongest just because fans like him!


Above u said Kaido is the next best thing beyond WHITEBEARD ow your saying someone with fewer than 50 panels will never be stronger because fans like him?
Are you talking about Mihawk or Kaido?

This logic is horrible. By this logic most top tiers are garbage


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## Ren. (Apr 15, 2020)

killfox said:


> So your agreeing that Kaido is the next best after WHITEBEARD?


Yep!


killfox said:


> This almost seems to imply you believe Luffy will solo Kaido. Just because u get help to defeat someone doesn’t mean your stronger than them.


Luffy is my favorite character but he gets mid-high differ after Wano in a 1vs1 with Kaido!


killfox said:


> Kaido could go down this arc with team work and Luffy could fight an admiral solo next arc does that mean the admiral Luffy fights is stronger than Kaido? Not at all it simply means Luffy is growing to a level where he can fight top tiers alone. He obviously not at that level yet.


Never implied that!


killfox said:


> re you talking about Mihawk or Kaido?
> 
> This logic is horrible. By this logic most top tiers are garbage


Not it is not because I never said that they are not top tiers.

I said that a character like Mihawk or Kaido can't be top top tiers with only titles, that was all.

To be the best of the best you need hype from page 1 to end.

I am very consistent in what I say, titles are not the definition of the strongest that was all.


WB was not Roger's equal because of his damn title so why would WSS be above Shanks just because he has another title.

Roger was not the top of the top pirate because he was the PK, he was the PK because he was the top of the top next to WB!


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## killfox (Apr 15, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> when characters are well informed on that subject ... yeap ... it's as canon as creator words cause IT IS creator words


Thats literally not how things work. You can’t possibly be telling me that a character statement from BM is more cannon than a creator interview. I’m gong to hope that’s not your stance because it makes you loose all credibility. 





Red Admiral said:


> Big Mom been an active pirate for 60 years who know Whitebeard full power and any other top tier VERY WELL


BM was on the same crew as WB years ago. WB wasn’t in his prime and there’s no evidence they ever clashed or fought at all unless you have proof?

Roger ran from her tho 


Red Admiral said:


> can be a PERFECT JUDGE of power level


Cant know someone’s full power if you haven’t seen it in their prime. Same way we don’t know BMs full power.


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## Red Admiral (Apr 15, 2020)

killfox said:


> Thats literally not how things work. You can’t possibly be telling me that a character statement from BM is more cannon than a creator interview. I’m gong to hope that’s not your stance because it makes you loose all credibility. BM was on the same crew as WB years ago. WB wasn’t in his prime and there’s no evidence they ever clashed or fought at all unless you have proof?
> 
> Roger ran from her tho
> Cant know someone’s full power if you haven’t seen it in their prime. Same way we don’t know BMs full power.



Whitebeard PICK OF  Prime age was 38 (stated by oda himself) so Big mom should have known that since she was a crewmate with a 36 yo Whitebeard 

and in one piece we have something called " CoO" where people can know the other person power without fighting them 

Big Mom not knowing full power of Prime Beard is a fucking joke ...

I don't even care what you want to get by this argument but you are dead wrong cause in every possibale way Big Mom can know every possiable thing


there are very few people in the world how knew Whitebeard full power and Big Mom is one of them 


you saying No Big Mom who is a Yonko and was a crewmate and an rival to Whitebeard is not good enough

and she randomly put Whitebeard above all Yonko is just a sad show for proving nothing


whitebeard was greatest pirate
whitebeard was  strongest man/pirate (Prime)

and the number of evidence for this claim is beyond deny ...


ONLY AND ONLY 2 people can have a claim over him or equal ... Roger and Xebec ... that's it ... no other person as of now can out claim whitebeard


so stop what ever you try to say ... 

Prime Beard > any living man


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## killfox (Apr 15, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> Whitebeard PICK OF  Prime age was 38 (stated by oda himself) so Big mom *should have known* that since she was a crewmate with a 36 yo Whitebeard


At least you admit your assuming but your wrong. Look how strong Luffy got in 2 years. 

Could his pre skip crew say “We knew Luffy at 17 so even tho we haven’t seen him in 2 years we are a good judge of his power level?” Hell no

Are pre skip Luffy and Post Skip Luffy comparable in any way? Hell no. 

Look at Coby. So to say that because BM knew 36 year old WB she knew 38 year old WBs true power is an assumption . One piece has shown that 2 years or more is a huge jump in power. 



Red Admiral said:


> and in one piece we have something called " CoO" where people can know the other person power without fighting them


Your adding powers to CoO. Knowing their powers without fighting them? Show me a scan hopefully not a scan of Katakuri predicting Luffys attacks because they were indeed “fighting” and you stated one can know ones powers without fighting them like a DBZ scouter.


Red Admiral said:


> Big Mom not knowing full power of Prime Beard is a fucking joke ...


As stated above it’s not. Do you have any reason to believe that BM and WHITEBEARD fought any any point in the past?


Red Admiral said:


> I don't even care what you want to get by this argument but you are dead wrong *cause in every possibale way Big Mom can know every possiable thing*


Cause in every possible way Big Mom can know every possible thing?..... Not sure what your getting at, are you saying Big Mom is somehow omniscient? 



Red Admiral said:


> there are very few people in the world how knew Whitebeard full power and Big Mom is one of them


But where is the proof?



Red Admiral said:


> you saying No Big Mom who is a Yonko and was a crewmate and an rival to Whitebeard is not good enough


Wasnt good enough to what?



Red Admiral said:


> and she randomly put Whitebeard above all Yonko is just a sad show for proving nothing


This proves they clashed or fought in the past? 



Red Admiral said:


> whitebeard was greatest pirate
> whitebeard was  strongest man/pirate (Prime)


Wb wasn’t the greatest pirate tho that honor goes to the pirate king who also had a higher bounty.


Red Admiral said:


> and the number of evidence for this claim is beyond deny ...


I just disproved you’re claim that WB was the greatest pirate in the quote above lol



Red Admiral said:


> ONLY AND ONLY 2 people can have a claim over him or equal ... Roger and Xebec ... that's it ... no other person as of now can out claim whitebeard


In his prime maybe but Prime Garp and Prime Sengoku are also candidates . Roger even told them to send Sengoku after him if they wanted to do something. 

Also Kaido/BM alliance is stronger than the Roger pirates as stated by manga cannon. So while WB was dead BM and Kaido both became “Much Stronger” as also stated by manga cannon. So you can’t compare the two for all we know current BM is stronger than old WB who was the WSM 2 years ago.




Red Admiral said:


> so stop what ever you try to say ...
> 
> Prime Beard > any living man


Big mom is a woman has been stated to become much stronger and is part of a crew stronger than Rogers


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 15, 2020)




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## Red Admiral (Apr 15, 2020)

killfox said:


> At least you admit your assuming but your wrong. Look how strong Luffy got in 2 years.
> 
> Could his pre skip crew say “We knew Luffy at 17 so even tho we haven’t seen him in 2 years we are a good judge of his power level?” Hell no
> 
> ...




a 36 years old man with DF and well known Haki growth is as same as Luffy who didn't knew Haki? really? really? Shanks from 37 and 39 are same people ... (some one with same age)
a can show you tomorrow cause it's late here but Mihawk in fact shame Zoro for not be able to measure some one power without fighting him (first time they fought) you can go and read it
again ... CoO is good enough to measure one man power ... and Big Mom saw Whitebeard full power in Rock great war and that's more than enough
...

reading rest of your post ... you are acting like a pessimistic who ignore any argument ... as long as there is 0.00001% chance of doubt

this is not how arguments work

this is not real life but story so when a l*egit person *make a claim the writer in fact telling us as too


your whole argument is ... we can't be 100% sure so it's wrong ... while that's not an argument ...

in argument we talk about claims

and Big Mom being a Yonko , have CoO , work with Whitebeard and saw him fight in close age to Prime is more than enough to make her claim legit

so the claim of she knowing WB full power is far far far far more legit than yours who are saying ... we can doubt so it's wrong


this is not how you should behave in an argument ... and I advise you to learn the basics of one before posting anything here or anywherewlse


Big Mom putting him above herself
Story calling Whitebeard only equal to Roger
Story give him WSM title while other Yonko are in their Prime
Whitebeard call himself strongest
Shanks calling him the top of the world
Garp call him king of the seas
Sengoku call him the world strongest man


all are more than enough proof for Whitebeard was in fact strongest by his time and that point


you saying small doubts , what ifs and things like this ... are not even worthy to answer back ... this are doubts base on head canons as if you are talking about real life and there is no story telling involve ]


hope you grow up in argument basics really soon


here we talk about fact and strong claims ... not a personal doubt base on head canon


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## Draco Bolton (Apr 15, 2020)

1-Shanks :Model and hero of the MC. But who turns out to be the racist snitch from the government.
2-Mihawk (Government Very Special Agent Shanks will die at the end of the final battle. Jobbing to Teach is too predictable).
3-Shanks high-extrem diff.


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## Hardcore (Apr 15, 2020)

1. shanks

2. it kinda feels shanks will surely go down, most likely to BB. 

can't say the same for mihawk for now, so shanks

3. would go with shanks for now

tho there's a big chance with good supporting evidence that they're even


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## Red Admiral (Apr 15, 2020)

*let's forget the power level and talk about character ... people might like to know  ...*

Just saying for Shanks ... he is an clear INFJ ... in fact *he is THE INFJ for plot *


things you should to know about INFJs that mostly would happen


Dark Past
They are the hidden hero of the story
INFJ can be even* stronger than the final villain* *(or as strong)* but if he be he should die

INFJ are capable of having their own story arc in the end of story so they finish what Hero can't do at same time


INFJ are not in the story for the full ride and the *usually die* before the final act
but their impact on the story can be as big as the hero or even more ...



fun fact ... INFJ are usually most fave or the embodiment of writer in the story
and they are the one who have the smallest plot armor around them so bad thing would happen for them more than others and all of them have one really sad back story that they endured ...


INFJ are like a genre for characters ... you might think Oda can twist too much but he won't

*him meeting with gorosei was predictable as fuck * but people fail to see Shanks role in the story so they assume the should be a hidden villian ...

as much as I like the idea, that's not the case here .... merely some cheap mislead that are easy to make a fool out of readers

*The obvious Suspect is always  Innocent at least in any GOOD story *


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## Canute87 (Apr 15, 2020)

Sherlōck said:


> ​
> 
> Who has more plot relevance?
> Who will go down first in the story?
> Who wins in a duel ?




1. Shanks.
2. Shanks.
3. Shanks.


In true devil may cry fashion  SSS style.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Flame (Apr 15, 2020)

I see that in order to create these type of threads one needs to be creative. Lucky bastard 

Shanks
Shanks
WSS obviously

Reactions: Like 1


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## Amol (Apr 16, 2020)

> 1. Who has more plot relevance?


Shanks. 
Even the most die hard Mihawk fan should agree with this provided that they can separate themselves from their bias. 
Shanks is MC's Idol. It was because of him, Luffy decided to be a Pirate. He is also one of the Yonkou which makes him one of the big shot in world politics. 
Mihawk is just a strong guy who lives with his monkeys in solitude rarely venturing outside. 


> 2. Who will go down first in the story?


Well I think Mihawk is going to be on Shanks's island when BB Pirates attacks them so I think they will go down together. 
I read this thread and I saw some saying that Mihawk goes down after Final War. 
So let me get this straight. Oda will have WG, BB go down in the biggest war with MC having done his final fight and then he will randomly start a new arc to have Zoro fight Mihawk because Zoro is MC of manga and Mihawk is the Final villain? 
Every time I think Mihawk wanking couldn't get any worse I am proven wrong. 
Only Epilogue is happening after Final War and the last fight of this manga will be off Luffy's. He is the fucking MC of this manga. Jesus there should be limit to wanking. 


> 3. Who wins in a duel ?


Shanks until Mihawk has better feats. I don't put much stock on Mihawk's overrated title in same way I don't much care about Kaido's title. 
We know for the fact that Mihawk has never fought with Yonkou Shanks as Shanks became Yonkou in last six years ago after he lost his hand. I can not in good faith give Mihawk win over someone with whom he never fought. That is a common sense. 
So only way I can buy Mihawk being strong than Shanks is if he defeated previous WSS who was without shred of doubt stronger than Yonkou Shanks but I think we would have heard of any such character by now. Someone that strong would have got mentioned by now by other top tiers. We are at the endgame. Frankly I no longer even think that WSS is some sought after Title considering no one other then Zoro is trying to get it. 
So Shanks wins.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kylo Ren (Apr 16, 2020)

Shanks
Shanks
Shanks


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 16, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> for a LONG TIME so many people consider Doffy above Mihawk
> 
> simply cause in terms of on screen hype and shine moment ... Doffu out classed Mihawk ... now that's just sad



To be fair a lot of people myself included use to think Doflamingo was Admiral level/Top tier.

So the notion of him being stronger then Mihawk was not that crazy. Although i personally never thought he was stronger then mihawk, but you can't really shit on someone else for thinking DD>Mihawk when they are of the opinion that DD is Admiral level.



Amol said:


> Shanks.
> Even the most die hard Mihawk fan should agree with this provided that they can separate themselves from their bias.
> Shanks is MC's Idol. It was because of him, Luffy decided to be a Pirate. He is also one of the Yonkou which makes him one of the big shot in world politics.
> Mihawk is just a strong guy who lives with his monkeys in solitude rarely venturing outside.
> ...



Does this same logic not applie to Shanks?

Reactions: Like 2


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## Red Admiral (Apr 16, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> To be fair a lot of people myself included use to think Doflamingo was Admiral level/Top tier.
> 
> So the notion of him being stronger then Mihawk was not that crazy. Although i personally never thought he was stronger then mihawk, but you can't really shit on someone else for thinking DD>Mihawk when they are of the opinion that DD is Admiral level.
> 
> ...



yea ... many people did ... cause Doffy had on screen hype

Mihawk hype on the other hand is of screen mostly and it's based on what people think "MIHAWK MUST STAND"

but MUST is a bet ... not a claim I like


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## killfox (Apr 16, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> a 36 years old man with DF and well known Haki growth is as same as Luffy who didn't knew Haki? really? really?




You asking this question means nothing. The manga has literally shown how a few years makes worlds of difference.
What diff do u think prime WB (38 as  you said) defeats his 36 year old version? If the answer is mid or lower then they are not comparable. For example Luffy literally one shots his pre skip self 2 years ago. Luffy has been in the new world for what a few months now? With the power ups he recieved he would one low/no diff is DR self when he fought Doffy....This is a few months in the NW and your telling me WB didnt get much much much stronger in 2 years sailing the NW fighting against Roger? Laughable at best.* Your argument that WB didnt get much stronger after he left Rocks is not supported by the manga. In fact quite the opposite. *



Red Admiral said:


> [*]Shanks from 37 and 39 are same people ... (some one with same age)



Shanks 37 and 39 are the same people in what aspect? Are you saying Shanks didn't gain any power in 2 years?



Red Admiral said:


> a can show you tomorrow cause it's late here but Mihawk in fact shame Zoro for not be able to measure some one power without fighting him (first time they fought) you can go and read it



Ok ill wait for the post. It seems to be a contradiction. If Mihawk knew how strong someone was why did he say he wanted to see how strong WB was when he threw the air slash? Or see how far the "distance is" between them? He should have already known by your logic. 





Red Admiral said:


> [*]again ... CoO is good enough to measure one man power ... and Big Mom saw Whitebeard* full power* in Rock great war and that's more than enough


Thing is both you, me , and everyone on this forum who reads One Piece knows Rocks WB was not the* full power *of WB because he wasnt in his prime so not sure why you keep saying that. Fact is, seeing someone fight 2 years ago doesn't mean you know what they will do 2 years later. 



Red Admiral said:


> reading rest of your post ... you are acting like a pessimistic who ignore any argument ... as long as there is 0.00001% chance of doubt
> 
> this is not how arguments work


I replied to this on courtasey this was a lost cause long ago but I'm posting manga facts. WB was Rogers rival. BM and Kaidos alliance is more powerful than Rogers crew was and BM and Kaido have both gotten much stronger than they were in the past. Thats manga fact for you. Do you agree?




Red Admiral said:


> this is not real life but story so when a l*egit person *make a claim the writer in fact telling us as too


When a legit person make a claim? Who BM who's cocky? Everything every character says is fact because the author is writing what they say? What about Uusop? Everything he says is true becasue the creator wrote things for him to say? Just stop it. Character personality traits have to be taken into account. You dont seem to know anything about writing.  



Red Admiral said:


> your whole argument is ... we can't be 100% sure so it's wrong ... while that's not an argument ...


If you cant be 100% sure about something that means it hasnt been proven or else there would be no debate. It seems like you dont have any proof but you admitting you aren't 100% sure. 



Red Admiral said:


> in argument we talk about claims.


I'm convinced that your just trying to sound intelligent at this point. In a fact based argument we present evidence about said claims. We don't talk about the claims themselves without backing.  



Red Admiral said:


> and Big Mom being a Yonko , have CoO , work with Whitebeard and saw him fight in close age to Prime is more than enough to make her claim legit


Its funny that you keep saying this without acknowledging the fact that neither BM, Kaido or WB were Yonkou while they were on the ROCKS. They ALL got much stronger after they left as stated in the manga. So to say she say YONKOU WB's full power is an ass pull. There is never any evidence that they clashed, and Roger (WB's equal) chose to run from BM rather than engage. If BM was fodder he would walk in wreck her and leave. 



Red Admiral said:


> so the claim of she knowing WB full power is far far far far more legit than yours who are saying ... we can doubt so it's wrong


The power you claim BM saw was NON YONKOU WB. 



Red Admiral said:


> this is not how you should behave in an argument ... and I advise you to learn the basics of one before posting anything here or anywherewlse


Who are you the post police? LOL at this point i feel like i gotta ask, how old are you? 



Red Admiral said:


> Big Mom putting him above herself


There is a thing called Respect. He was a former Yonkou and cremate. 


Red Admiral said:


> Story calling Whitebeard only equal to Roger


You forgetting Garp? Do you read one piece? Also as stated Roger ran from BM.


Red Admiral said:


> Story give him WSM title while other Yonko are in their Prime


Kaido isnt human, and BM is a woman. WSM LITERALLY couldn't be applied to either of them even if they were confirmed stronger than WB by the creator tomorrow. SMH also how were they in their prime if they both got much stronger?


Red Admiral said:


> Whitebeard call himself strongest


Pretty sure BB said the same about himself 


Red Admiral said:


> Shanks calling him the top of the world
> Garp call him king of the seas
> Sengoku call him the world strongest man


Im aware of everything they said, I'm not taking anything from WB but hes been dead. Bms alliance is currently literally stronger than his crew or Rogers crew was. respecting old WB doesnt mean he would beaat current BM if he was alive. Feel free to make an old WB vs Current BM thread. 



Red Admiral said:


> all are more than enough proof for Whitebeard was in fact strongest by his time and that point


He did infact have the strongest attack power but he was a shell of his former self when they said that. Also while WB did have the strongest attack power, doesnt mean he would beat a current yonkou even if they did show him respect after death. 



Red Admiral said:


> you saying small doubts , what ifs and things like this ... are not even worthy to answer back ... this are doubts base on head canons as if you are talking about real life and there is no story telling involve ]


Head cannon would be denying that BMs current alliance is stronger than WBs or Rogers crew.



Red Admiral said:


> hope you grow up in argument basics really soon
> 
> 
> here we talk about fact and strong claims ... not a personal doubt base on head canon


Please do research before you speak.


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## ShWanks (Apr 17, 2020)

Shanks
Shanks
Shanks if death battle and Mihawk if only the use of sword play is allowed.

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## TheWiggian (Apr 17, 2020)

1. Shanks although you could make the argument that Mihawk is Zoro's ultimate goal while Shanks isn't Luffy's, Luffy wants to beat Shanks in a way we all know will be by becoming the Pirate King, which is actually harder than becoming WSS as said by Mihawk himself and relate this to Mihawk's and Shanks rivalry which more or less ends in them being compareable in individual strenght. So it basically depends on how you view it.
2. Who knows, probably Shanks since there is foreshadowing for him to be taken down by Blackbeard.
3. Mihawk extreme diff.

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## Dunno (Apr 17, 2020)

1. Mihawk. Since Zoro's story is the most important part of the manga, his final opponent is extremely important to the plot.
2. Uncertain. Mihawk is going down to Zoro, probably during the EoS war. Shanks going down to Blackbeard before Raftel seems to be relatively likely, in which case he is the first to go down. If he doesn't, he probably survives the entire manga though, making Mihawk the first to go down.
3. Mihawk. He is the strongest swordsman in the world, and Shanks is most likely a swordsman.

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## Red Admiral (Apr 17, 2020)

Dunno said:


> 1. Mihawk. Since Zoro's story is the most important part of the manga, his final opponent is extremely important to the plot.



I love the way you troll ... nice job

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dunno (Apr 17, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> I love the way you troll ... nice job


There's nothing trolly about it. Zoro's story is the most important part of the manga. 

Let me explain: Many characters could be removed from One PIece and it would still be fine. For example, if you removed Luffy, the manga wouldn't get worse. Therefore we can conclude that Luffy isn't all that important to the story. If you removed Zoro though, the manga would become much worse, which means that Zoro is integral to the story. Mihawk is of course less important than Zoro, but still important. In terms of importance, it goes: Zoro > Mihawk > Shanks > Luffy.


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## CaptainCommanderRenji (Apr 17, 2020)

Dunno said:


> There's nothing trolly about it. Zoro's story is the most important part of the manga.
> 
> Let me explain: Many characters could be removed from One PIece and it would still be fine. For example, if you removed Luffy, the manga wouldn't get worse. Therefore we can conclude that Luffy isn't all that important to the story. If you removed Zoro though, the manga would become much worse, which means that Zoro is integral to the story. Mihawk is of course less important than Zoro, but still important. In terms of importance, it goes: Zoro > Mihawk > Shanks > Luffy.


With that logic Nami's left tit is more important than all of those characters.

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## Red Admiral (Apr 17, 2020)

Dunno said:


> There's nothing trolly about it. Zoro's story is the most important part of the manga.
> 
> Let me explain: Many characters could be removed from One PIece and it would still be fine. For example, if you removed Luffy, the manga wouldn't get worse. Therefore we can conclude that Luffy isn't all that important to the story. If you removed Zoro though, the manga would become much worse, which means that Zoro is integral to the story. Mihawk is of course less important than Zoro, but still important. In terms of importance, it goes: Zoro > Mihawk > Shanks > Luffy.



Zoro can die next chapter ... and nothing would go wrong for the plot


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## RossellaFiamingo (Apr 17, 2020)

Liniln never put WB above herself.  How many times must this inane shit be repeated? People with massive Ego's and self confidence bordering on hubris *DO NOT *admit inferiority. All that statement *definitely* implies is that she views WB as a bigger threat than Kaido and Shanks. The Novel tells us exactly why. WB had the Biggest crew and the most territory. And Context matters. *She is not talking about a 1 v 1 here. *She is talking about taking down all the Yonko, including their allies and their crews. She is placing WB's forces and resources above that of Kaido and Shanks who are of the same generation. 



Imagine hearing Kaido or Shanks saying "This Guy Is Above Me" That doesn't happen with people on this level.


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## Dunno (Apr 17, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> Zoro can die next chapter ... and nothing would go wrong for the plot


Nah. If Zoro dies, the manga is over. 



CaptainCommanderRenji said:


> With that logic Nami's left tit is more important than all of those characters.


To each his own.


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## Ren. (Apr 18, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> I love the way you troll ... nice job


I hope you are correct and he does not beleive that!


Dunno said:


> Let me explain: Many characters could be removed from One PIece and it would still be fine. For example, if you removed Luffy, the manga wouldn't get worse.


LOL, the manga is about Luffy, fans from Japan all love Luffy!
There were  4 consecutive arcs only with Luffy and none complained from Japan.

Conclusion Zoro could have died in any arc and the OP would have moved on.

Zoro was not present in Amazon Lily, ID, MF, Gray Terminal and WCI, none gave a shit.
Reverie did not have Luffy and the talk was about him half of the chapters.

Zoro's Importance to the manga is as his title nonessential vs Luffy and the PK title.


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## Jo Ndule (Apr 19, 2020)

Shanks is more relevant 
He moves the story, he is always on the move while Posthawk has bligh nothing in the story except train Zoro 

Also, Shanks is stronger
Pre Yonko shanks ~ Posthawk < Yonko shanks

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## Beast (Apr 19, 2020)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> Liniln never put WB above herself.  How many times must this inane shit be repeated? People with massive Ego's and self confidence bordering on hubris *DO NOT *admit inferiority. All that statement *definitely* implies is that she views WB as a bigger threat than Kaido and Shanks. The Novel tells us exactly why. WB had the Biggest crew and the most territory. And Context matters. *She is not talking about a 1 v 1 here. *She is talking about taking down all the Yonko, including their allies and their crews. She is placing WB's forces and resources above that of Kaido and Shanks who are of the same generation.
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine hearing Kaido or Shanks saying "This Guy Is Above Me" That doesn't happen with people on this level.


Nope, it’s about as clear as OP gets, as you’ve clearly said BM views WB above Kaidou and shanks, She is AT BEST equal to Kaidou... she knows it and so do we, seems like you’re the only one in denial if I’m honest.

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## Red Admiral (Apr 19, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Nope, it’s about as clear as OP gets, as you’ve clearly said BM views WB above Kaidou and shanks, She is AT BEST equal to Kaidou... she knows it and so do we, seems like you’re the only one in denial if I’m honest.



one thing .... as I do agree Prime Beard > Big Mom ...

but Whitebeard was "strongest pirate" meaning he had more men power and most land and most everything

so overcoming him is hardest the most even if Big Mom = Whitebeard


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## Muah (Apr 19, 2020)

this conversation has created such a heated debate i believe it's even been banned in this section(though what really hasn't). 

The simple truth is whether or not Mihawk is a challenge or more than a challenge for Shanks has serious implication for the entire one Piece world. So lets look at how things shake out in each scenario. In particular let's see if Oda has written himself into a corner

*Mihawk = Shanks*
The first thing we must look at is how Yonkou crews are situated. In large a majority of a Yonkou crew's power lies in the strength of the Captain. With an insanely powerful captain these pirates can choose a base and spread influence and infrastructure as far as possible without having to retreat. If the captain should fall the remaining crew would not be able to ward off either the marines or other Yonkou's. No crew other than the Yonkou's have ever established the power to remain still and not worry about marine interference. 

Even when they tried to stop Shanks from meeting with whitebeard Shanks simply sunk fleet after fleet of terrified marines. this leaves us to believe that the Yonkou are the most powerful beings in the verse. Even Dragon dare not sit on an island that the whearabouts are public knowledge. Funny enough Mihawk is in a similar position after losing his status as a privateer.

Now while their is a chance that Shank's crew is setup differently where the power is more spread out by higher ups; it's more likely Shanks makes the Yonkou level cut and just compensates with the smaller crew  by having stronger members.

Now if Mihawk is equal to Shanks that throws off the entire balance of what we may have understood. That means that when Whitebeard attacked Marineford either A.the marines had what is about equivalent to a Yonkou crew(Mihawk being the top and the other shichibukai being his crew) ontop of thousands of marines two admirals and two legends. Or B.  Shanks and by extension Mihawk is much weaker than a yonkou legend such as Whitebeard and therefore still did not tip the odds. 

Another factor to consider is that Mihawk and Shanks are of equivalent strength than that changes Zoro's whole end game. By defeating Mihawk and being as strong as Shanks than Zoro becomes Yonkou level. And while we throw the Yonkou term around we keep in mind that these are the people who themselves can split the heavens through clashing with one another. The strongest of them who was said to be able to destroy the world.  Meaning when Luffy's crew will have two Yonkou level combatants.

*Shank's>Mihawk*
If this is true than the title of worlds strongest swordsman is a lie.. or atheist we can say the title is up for debate. While in my early days I've seen the term worlds greatest Swordsman tossed around I've been assured by man that the Kanji or term is Strongest. Not most skilled or most Famous; the title is for the man who stands upon the world of swordsman. If Zoro cuts down Mihawk or Shiryuu or whoever in order to solidify his title he must challenge Shanks to a duel. Be assured that unless Oda goes out on a branch and defined swordsman as something different you can be certain that Shanks makes that list. 

Also indicating that Zoro would have to be better than Law before his character arc draws shut.
While I'm not trying to start a debate in who's stronger it does change the entire structure and plot based off of the fighting ability of two characters. I don't know if this thread will stay up but If it does discuss who the story would change based off of both scenarios.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 19, 2020)

Muah making a Mihawk vs Shanks thread.

This cronovirus is turning everyone mad.


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## claunch (Apr 20, 2020)

The reason Zoro won't fight shanks is mihawk will know when he's the was or mihawk gets killed by government or goes on the run. He's bored and want to see how strong he really is. He stayed on that island for a purpose.


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## Thenewguysnm1 (Apr 20, 2020)

Whitebeard had no chance in that war, death was almost certain, they were getting cucked brutally before the impel down escapees got involved(which was not part of the plan) and could of been killed almost straight away if it wasn't for plot and major players not taking it seriously. 3 admirals>any yonko 7 warlords> any yonko crew garp and sengoku>any remaining fodder.

The marines are the ultimate power in the world. mihawk does not have a crew and is not an active pirate/ a territory threat him being stronger than shanks does not effect the story that much. Roger had a a yonko level right hand in rayleigh(most likely) Luffy having one at EOS is not at all far fetched.

finally 7 warlords combined(plus their crews) would reek havock and could be Yonko level crew that much is common knowledge.

All in all Mihawk>Shanks is completely plausible if not confirmed and takes nothing away from either character or the series.


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## Fleet Admiral Akainu (Apr 20, 2020)

if mihawk dies, he dies


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## Beast (Apr 20, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> one thing .... as I do agree Prime Beard > Big Mom ...
> 
> but Whitebeard was "strongest pirate" meaning he had more men power and most land and most everything
> 
> so overcoming him is hardest the most even if Big Mom = Whitebeard


Yes, WB is more powerful, resourceful and has actual allies and not men in fear, but men willing to die with him. 

That’s not an excuse.


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## Yuji (Apr 20, 2020)

Why is it a banned discussion? Shanks vs Midhawk is one of the only debates in the community that I would consider an actual debate, rather than the Zoro vs Sanji shit or Yonko vs Admiral where the stronger side is clear as day. Midhawk vs Shanks however you can make a reasonable argument for both sides.

Reactions: Like 4


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## GrizzlyClaws (Apr 20, 2020)

Mihawk = Hawk
Shanks = Griffin


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## Oddjutsu (Apr 20, 2020)

Both government dogs, the swords are weeping


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## Red Admiral (Apr 20, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Yes, WB is more powerful, resourceful and has actual allies and not men in fear, but men willing to die with him.
> 
> That’s not an excuse.



I'm saying if some one want to read that comment in this way is fair cause at that time a war with WB was clearly the hardest in Big Mom's eyes

good thing Whitebeard >~ Yonko ... is only a one root arguments


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 20, 2020)

Yuji said:


> Why is it a banned discussion? Shanks vs Midhawk is one of the only debates in the community that I would consider an actual debate, rather than the Zoro vs Sanji shit or Yonko vs Admiral where the stronger side is clear as day. Midhawk vs Shanks however you can make a reasonable argument for both sides.



It was banned in the past because we have had a lot of conversations about it and new no information has really come out. Like the ace/novel and datebook are the only new things recently to come out. before that the last relevant pieces of info we got on shanks/Mihawk was in marineford. 

Also shanks and mihawk threads were discussed all the time. It would be one thing if every couple of months a thread was made, but back in the day it was a fuck ton of them.


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## TheOmega (Apr 20, 2020)

I'll say it 1000 times if I have to.

This is like Boxing vs MMA

Mihawk is a Specialist/Purist
Shanks is a Hybrid/Freestyler

Mihawk > Shanks when Restricted to only using Swordsmanship

Shanks >> Mihawk when Unrestricted and using Everything

Martial Artists can UTILIZE and INCORPORATE punches AMONGST MANY other techniques.

Boxers SPECIALIZE and DEPEND SOLELY on punches.

Just cuz you throw a punch doesn't make you a boxer. Just cuz you swing a sword doesn't make you a swordsman.

I'm surprised with how many fans of manga/anime/eastern culture people there are that this concept is hard to understand.

If a Martial Artist fights a Boxer in a BOXING match he will most likely lose. Can't do nothing except use punches to attack and guard from above the waist.

If a Martial Artist fights a Boxer MMA style or in a Street Fight or basically anything BEYOND the confines of a BOXING match, the probability that the Martial Artist wins skyrockets exponentially.

They're both healthy men with "the same tools" but their disciplines and skillsets are different.

One compromises himself more in order to fight on the level of the other fighter.

We see this perfectly illustrated in Mayweather vs McGregor.

Mayweather won the Boxing match as predicted but it's well understood that Mayweather would be easily overwhelmed in an MMA match.

In 2020 ya'll are STILL in denial about how much Haki brings to the table even though we've gotten confirmation that Haki can shield the users via CoC & CoA and penetrate Defenses and see the future and blah blah blah. And we know that Shanks is the Haki golden boy. But ya'll wanna keep sleepin

Better Boxer doesn't mean Better Fighter.
Better Swordsman doesn't mean Better Fighter.

Mihawk is not stronger than Shanks.

Let's do some symbolisms...

Mihawk said Luffy's got the strongest ability in the seas..the ability to make allies outta anyone..

Who else does that..Shanks..what is also related to that ability? COC. Who else does that? Shanks

Mihawk said he wanted to "test the distance between himself and 'that man'"... who's that man?

Is it only Whitebeard? Whitebeard representative of what? The WSM or the Yonko status?

Because his attack NEVER reached Whitebeard..

Why? Because Whiteboard's ALLIES intercepted the attack.

Who did Mihawk fail to kill despite making an earnest effort due to their ALLIES intercepting attacks? Luffy...who is inspired by WHO? Shanks

2 times within Marineford itself it was established that Mihawk's power can not overcome those who have "the strongest ability on the seas"

Couldn't touch WB but guess who did? Shanks.

The same guy who nosold Mihawk from attacking WB was TREMBLING in the presence of Shanks.

Shanks had the dude in sheer awe while he cross swords with his leader the "WSM" WB.

Mihawk is a Man right? So then that must mean WSM > WSS...

So Mihawk FAILED to bypass allies OR reach WB the Yonko.....Shanks EASILY bypassed Allies and reached WB while being a Yonko himself.

Shichibukai TAKE ORDERS from the WG

Shanks the Yonko GAVE ORDERS to the WG

Hm....yeaa I think I know who's got the greater Portrayal here.

Shanks > Mihawk. Case Closed

Reactions: Like 3


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## Gledania (Apr 20, 2020)

If Shanks is > Mihawk it must be something unrelated to swordmanship like a DF or something otherwise zoro dream lose it's hype : he would have faced a fraud and took the title from a fraud.

I think Mihawk beat Shanks in a sword fight (including Haki in it , haki is a part of swordmanship in One piece wether you like it or not). 

If Mihawk is under shanks in everything then oda will make someone defeat him , take his title and face Zoro as the true strongest swordman. I don't think it would be Shiryuu and don't think it's gonna be shanks.


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## Seraphoenix (Apr 20, 2020)

Gledinos said:


> If Shanks is > Mihawk it must be something unrelated to swordmanship like a DF or something otherwise zoro dream lose it's hype : he would have faced a fraud and took the title from a fraud.
> 
> *I think Mihawk beat Shanks in a sword fight *(including Haki in it , haki is a part of swordmanship in One piece wether you like it or not).
> 
> If Mihawk is under shanks in everything then oda will make someone defeat him , take his title and face Zoro as the true strongest swordman. I don't think it would be Shiryuu and don't think it's gonna be shanks.


Turrin already clarified that based on their conversation, Mihawk said they were even and that a final decision won't be reached of who is stronger, because Shanks lost his arm and Mihawk doesn't want to fight a one-armed swordsman.


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## Gledania (Apr 20, 2020)

Seraphoenix said:


> Turrin already clarified that based on their conversation, Mihawk said they were even and that a final decision won't be reached of who is stronger, because Shanks lost his arm and Mihawk doesn't want to fight a one-armed swordsman.



They were even in result neither dedeated the other

I think the implication is clear tbh...  two guys in the same league but one lost his arm.

I still believe Shanks might have took a DF to compensate for his hand


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 20, 2020)

TheOmega said:


> I'll say it 1000 times if I have to.
> 
> This is like Boxing vs MMA
> 
> ...



And I will say it 10,000 times there is little evidence that Shanks is anything more then a swordsmen. 

So your whole Hybrid fighter logic is all headcannon.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Apr 20, 2020)

I think there only two possible answers for this to make any kind of sense.... 

1. They are equal

2. Shanks is stronger


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## Seraphoenix (Apr 20, 2020)

Gledinos said:


> They were even in result neither dedeated the other
> 
> I think the implication is clear tbh...  two guys in the same league but one lost his arm.
> 
> I still believe Shanks might have took a DF to compensate for his hand


Oh, I thought you were talking in past tense about their previous duels.


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## ice demon slayer (Apr 20, 2020)

Mihawk mid diff at best

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheOmega (Apr 20, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> And I will say it 10,000 times there is little evidence that Shanks is anything more then a swordsmen.
> 
> So your whole Hybrid fighter logic is all headcannon.



Keep believing that if it makes you feel better. Time will tell and I hope you doubters have the guts to apologize when you see Shanks in action and starts Hakispamming


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 20, 2020)

TheOmega said:


> Keep believing that if it makes you feel better. Time will tell and I hope you doubters have the guts to apologize when you see Shanks in action and starts Hakispamming



What is this magical Haki spamming and whats stopping Mihawk from doing it?

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheOmega (Apr 20, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> What is this magical Haki spamming and whats stopping Mihawk from doing it?



It's like the difference between being a swordsman and a jedi knight.

Jedi knights have swords but aren't mere swordsmen.

Simple concept to grasp 

We've seen Shanks use Haki but we've never seen Mihawk use it...

And we KNOW Shanks has CoC
AND we know that he's STRONG with it

But we don't even know if Mihawk can use it

Sword + Haki > Sword. Simple Maths

Or Sword + Haki + CoC > Sword + Haki if you wanna act dense

Being the best Runner does not automatically make you the best Triathlete....being the best Swordsman does not automatically make you the best Fighter. Shit is simple


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## oiety (Apr 20, 2020)

we will live to see Shanks make an arm out of haki and the salt will be unreal


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 20, 2020)

anyone that thinks Shanks > Mihawk is reading Two Piece

Reactions: Like 2


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## TheOmega (Apr 20, 2020)

oiety said:


> we will live to see Shanks make an arm out of haki and the salt will be unreal



I don't put nothin past Haki lol.

I can definitely see someone attacking his armless side only for them to be stopped by a Haki barrier or some shit lol


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## oiety (Apr 20, 2020)

TheOmega said:


> I don't put nothin past Haki lol.
> 
> I can definitely see someone attacking his armless side only for them to be stopped by a Haki barrier or some shit lol



We're in the home stretch homie, as soon as the Kaido/Bm stuff is over shit is gonna get crazy.

We've been waiting on Shanks to throwdown since the manga started so I'm sure he'll have some utterly ludicrous shit going on; haki barrier shield and that pirate warriors thing where he uses haki to make his sword 5 feet longer would not surprise me at all, and that's really just the tip of the iceberg...

I mean I'm ngl, I do favor Mihawk right now, but who tf knows what Oda's gonna reveal? Especially for the guy hyped since day one.


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## Ezekjuninor (Apr 20, 2020)

1. Shanks as he's the MC's goal while Mihawk is Zoro's goal. MC>Side character 
2. It's possible that neither of them die but if so then Shanks would likely die to BB before Mihawk dies. 
3. Imo, Mihawk will be stronger than Shanks due to his title which essentially puts him ahead of Shanks a fellow swordsman but it's kinda a retcon. When you consider that Mihawk implied that an old out of prime WB (who Shanks already clashed with as equals) was above him. Then we see Mihawk later on fighting Vista a YC3 and asking for a postponement because he saw Vista as a worthy opponent. So at first a lot of people assumed Vista must've been a low top tier, but later on we see Kaidou stomp Luffy (YC1 level); and a Big Mom with no haki or abilities stomp Queen (YC2). Shanks also has the feat of stopping Akainu's blow without any trouble and causing the end of the war. So basically what we've been shown would suggest Shanks is stronger, you could also argue that Shanks surpassed Mihawk and it just isn't known as they haven't fought in 12+ years. 

Logically I think it would be dumb to have a swordsman stronger than Mihawk who has the WSM title and imagine Zoro defeating Mihawk at/near EoS just for Shanks to still be a stronger swordsman. So for the sake of the plot, I would bet on Mihawk being stronger.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 20, 2020)

TheOmega said:


> *It's like the difference between being a swordsman and a jedi knight*.
> 
> Jedi knights have swords but aren't mere swordsmen.
> 
> ...




Stopped reading here.


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## Cyrus the Cactus (Apr 20, 2020)

oiety said:


> we will live to see Shanks make an arm out of haki and the salt will be unreal



Maybe Zoro can teach Shanks Asura (assuming it's not Haki). Zoro can create heads, arms AND swords out of nothing.


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## TheOmega (Apr 21, 2020)

Shanks, Whitebeard, Big Mom, Kaido & Blackbeard Are Yonko

Yonko are the top 4 Pirates

Shanks has a Sword
Big Mom has a Sword
Whitebeard has a Sword

Shanks is a Man
Whitebeard is a Man

Whitebeard is WSM
Kaido is WSC

Humans are Creatures

Mihawk is a Creature who is a Man who is a Pirate who is a Swordman

Mihawk is NOT a Yonko

WSC> WSM> Yonkos> Pirates

But Mihawk is WSS

This means either ALL the titles are FAKE OR those with Swords ARE NOT automatically Swordsmen

Take it or leave it but Shanks is stronger than Mihawk either way


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## Dunno (Apr 21, 2020)

TheOmega said:


> Shanks, Whitebeard, Big Mom, Kaido & Blackbeard Are Yonko
> 
> Yonko are the top 4 Pirates
> 
> ...



Whitebeard is no longer a Yonkou, he is dead.

The Yonkou are the top 4 pirates in the sense that they are the most powerful, granted. Not the strongest though. 

Shanks has a Sword
Big Mom has a Sword
Whitebeard did not have a Sword

Shanks is a man
Whitebeard was a man
Big Mom is a man
Kaido is a man

Whitebeard was the WSM
Kaido is known as the WSC. 

WSC > WSM > WSS > Yonkous = KaWSC

This means that all titles which Oda specifically stated were only hearsay are false, and all title that Oda confirmed were true are true. Easy as that.

Reactions: Like 1


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## xmysticgohanx (Apr 21, 2020)

Mihawk extreme diffs


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## TheOmega (Apr 21, 2020)

Dunno said:


> Whitebeard is no longer a Yonkou, he is dead.
> 
> The Yonkou are the top 4 pirates in the sense that they are the most powerful, granted. Not the strongest though.
> 
> ...




Lmao mental gymnastics

WB > Mihawk and had one of the the 12 supreme swords 

Yonko > the rest of the pirates

Mihawk = Shichibukai/Govt Dog

Shanks clashed with WB, had Jozu sweatin with mere presence and ended the MF war

Mihawk failed to even reach WB, was intercepted by Jozu and was ordered to appear in MF war

Stay woke


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## Dunno (Apr 21, 2020)

TheOmega said:


> Lmao mental gymnastics
> 
> WB > Mihawk and had one of the the 12 supreme swords
> 
> ...


The Omega: Lmao mental gymnastics

Also The Omega: This is a sword:

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheOmega (Apr 22, 2020)

Reread Chapter 912 and then holla back

‍


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## Cyrus the Cactus (Apr 22, 2020)

TheOmega said:


> Reread Chapter 912 and then holla back
> 
> ‍



So spears are swords now too?


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## xmysticgohanx (Apr 22, 2020)

Y’all need to read the viz


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## TheOmega (Apr 22, 2020)

Cyrus the Cactus said:


> So spears are swords now too?



The blade is a sword so I dunno brodie you might have to go holla at Oda bout that one


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## Dunno (Apr 22, 2020)

TheOmega said:


> The blade is a sword so I dunno brodie you might have to go holla at Oda bout that one


What was that about mental gymnastics again? The blade of a spear is a sword? Do you even realise how that sounds?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Apr 22, 2020)

Dunno said:


> What was that about mental gymnastics again? The blade of a spear is a sword? Do you even realise how that sounds?


A bisento is a long sword, that is not a  spear.
Nice try.

Do you even know what a spear is?

_*bisentō*_ (眉尖刀, _brow blade_) was a  used in feudal Japan. The bisentō has various descriptions, "a double-edged long sword with a thick truncated blade", "a spear-like weapon with a blade at the end that resembles a " "a polearm resembling a , with a long, heavy haft and a heavy, curved blade".The bisentō is said to have been used by  and .

_Naginata_ were originally used by the  class of feudal Japan, as well as by  (foot soldiers) and  (warrior monks). The naginata is the iconic weapon of the , a type of female warrior belonging to the Japanese nobility.

In English the word *scimitar* ( or ) refers to a  or  with a curved blade, originating in the . Adapted from the Italian word _scimitarra_ in the mid 16th century from an unknown source, the word became used for all 'Oriental' blades which were curved, compared to the more commonly  European swords of the time. This is apparent in Thomas Page's _The Use of the Broad Sword_. Published: 1746.


Oda can easily make a  bisento a long sword.


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## Ren. (Apr 22, 2020)

Also cute that WSS is only the strongest person vs persons that carry swords.
If you include other blades he loses.

This is so amusing, how is he different vs a sword guy than vs a long sword guy or pole weapon guy?

@TheOmega can you explain how his 100% win vs sword disappears when facing a longer one?


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 22, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Also cute that WSS is only the strongest person vs persons that carry swords.
> If you include other blades he loses.
> 
> This is so amusing, how is he different vs a sword guy than vs a long sword guy or pole weapon guy?
> ...



Pretty sure you read Gamaran before.

Sword techniques change depending on the shape and length of the blades.

The way you fight with a bisento would not be the same as a regular sword.

Granted Mihawk has a giant ass fuck off sword i doubt oda really cares to much about that the difference of techniques different swords produce.


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## Ren. (Apr 22, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Pretty sure you read Gamaran before.
> 
> Sword techniques change depending on the shape and length of the blades.
> 
> ...


Pretty sure you answered your question, range and length of the sword in OP word that is a romanticized means shit.

Gamaran is still filled with superhumans that are "realist", not as realistic as Vagabont but realistic.

OP word not so.

Again from what I was reading in NF, WSS is not based on skill but on power, and many more, skill is not #1.

So if it is skill-based then we can change the discussion 100%.

As I said before you can't have the cake and also eat it.


Is WSS based on skill then tell me so?

If it is not then a long sword or a regular sword does not matter at all.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 22, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Pretty sure you answered your question, range and length of the sword in OP word that is a romanticized means shit.
> 
> Gamaran is still filled with superhumans that are "realist", not as realistic as Vagabont but realistic.
> 
> ...



Only thing that matters is that the OP verse considers what your using a sword. 

Obviously if you beat Mihawk with a Halbred you don't get his title.


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## Ren. (Apr 22, 2020)

In fact as a shape and length:



Are very similar.

The bisento being longer but  Mihawk sword is not a regular sword as it is 2M+ long 

And as the cutting end they are identical.

In fact, Mihawk's "sword" is not even a sword but a cross that is the guard with the exact same end as the Bisenoto


In fact, the blade at the end is attached the same way.


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## Ren. (Apr 22, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Only thing that matters is that the OP verse considers what your using a sword.
> 
> Obviously if you beat Mihawk with a Halbred you don't get his title.


Who told you this?
You guys are making this shit as the manga goes?

Who made who a swordsman and who didn't!

In fact oda doesn't make a distinction between blades aka the 12 meitos.

And you know why this is because this is not a sword related manga.

And his Bisento > above Shusui!

Did Oda say that WB can't take WSS title?

Again why are you making things that we don't know up?

What I am saying is speculation but the same can be said for:


WSS been the strongest ever blade/sword user as this was not explained!
What is the title referring to!
What is a sword and whatnot, what is a sword title participant or not!


So when someone fascinated by a fictional character that has a sword into his out tells me what a sword is and no what a sword user is and no, I chuckle every time.

Tell me why is Zoro a mouth sword user qualified for WSS and not a bisento user?

Reactions: Like 2


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 22, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Who told you this?
> You guys are making this shit as the manga goes?



Why would someone whos not a swordsmen be able to take Mihawks title? 

What needs explaining about that? A Halbred user is not a swordsmen. 



> Who made who a swordsman and who didn't!
> 
> In fact oda does makes a distinction between blades aka the 12 meitos.



What's your point?



> Did Oda say that WB can't take WSS title?



Whitebeard is a Quake man not a swordsmen.



> Again why are you making things that we don't know up?



I have no idea what your talking about bro. 

Are you trying to argue that White-beard should be WSS or something cause he uses a Bisento?


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## Ren. (Apr 22, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Why would someone whos not a swordsmen be able to take Mihawks title?
> 
> What needs explaining about that? A Halbred user is not a swordsman.


Who told you that, as in the definition of the blade it is a long sword?

And Oda made it into the supreme 12!

Who told you the definition of a swordsman in OP?

Also Mihawks sword is not really a sword in the same definitions as Zoro's one!



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> What's your point?


That you are choosing what you want to show!

You are making a distinction based on nothing!


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Whitebeard is a Quake man not a swordsmen.


Who told you that?

And then Fujitora is a gravity man, law was made a swordsman and is a reality manipulator man!


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Are you trying to argue that White-beard should be WSS or something cause he uses a Bisento?


I am arguing to for once wait for manga clarification and stop saying X is a swordsman and Y is not!


the contenders for WSS is those that Oda says they are not anyone that the fans want them to be.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 22, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Who told you that, as in the definition of the blade it is a long sword?
> 
> And Oda made it into the supreme 12!
> 
> ...



Occam's razor my friend. I take the least amount of assumptions when i am discussing something.

Whitebeard was not stated to be a swordsmen. He does not use a weapon that is commonly considered a sword. He has a devil fruit which makes up the majority of his power. 

Hence force i do not consider him a swordsmen and not a contender for Mihawks title. 

Until Oda gives us a different definition. Swordsmen means what swordsmen means. A person skilled in the use of a sword. Thats the literal definition of the word. If oda wants to make his own standards for swordsmen he is free to do so but until he does we go with the actual meaning of the world as we know it in real life just like everything else. 

You are over complicating something that Oda has never portrayed in the manga to be something complicated.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ren. (Apr 22, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Occam's razor my friend. I take the least amount of assumptions when i am discussing something.


Hmmm also you use it a lot so can't disclaim this one!


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Whitebeard was not stated to be a swordsmen. He does not use a weapon that is commonly considered a sword. He has a devil fruit which makes up the majority of his power.


Faire but Shanks also was not stated to be one, nor Roger and Rayleigh.

Commonly does not apply to OP world, Mihawks sword is less of a sword than Wb's bisento in our world.

Faire for the DF one.

But the same case can be made for Fujitora.


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Until Oda gives us a different definition.


Lack of confirmation is not a confirmation when making a debate.


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> A person skilled in the use of a sword. Thats the literal definition of the word.


Not in Japan, the one that is one with the sword is for Japanese and we are reading a Japanese material.


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> If oda wants to make his own standards for swordsmen he is free to do so but until he does we go with the actual meaning of the world as we know it in real life just like everything else.


He already made one the meito.

He does not makes a clear distinction between either of the 12 blades and one is a bisento.


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> You are over complicating something that Oda has never portrayed in the manga to be something complicated.


When were are discussing some being the more power than many just because some word, I can say that you are oversimplifying in fact just for lack of arguments.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 22, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Hmmm also you use it a lot so can't disclaim this one!
> 
> Faire but Shanks also was not stated to be one, nor Roger and Rayleigh.
> 
> ...



Still not sure what your point you want to make here is?

I mean if you want to argue that White-beard is a swordsmen you need evidence. Don't just get to say White-beard is a swordsmen just cause.

For example Shanks in the databook is called a Swordmaster. Pretty dame sure you can't be a swordmaster and not be a swordsmen. Shanks called Rayleigh Master. Rayleigh does not have a devil fruit. Rayleigh has only been shown to use a sword. Safe to assume he not only trained Shanks but is a master swordsmen himself being one of the strongest people in the series.

Now sure you could make the argument that Shanks, Rayleigh, and Roger aren't swordsmen and i don't particularly care if you do or not. As long as we don't pretend that them being swordsmen is some kind of ass pulled assumption cause its not.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ren. (Apr 22, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> For example Shanks in the databook is called a Swordmaster. Pretty dame sure you can't be a swordmaster and not be a swordsmen. Shanks called Rayleigh Master. Rayleigh does not have a devil fruit.


See assumptions ...
None made in the manga.



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Now sure you could make the argument that Shanks, Rayleigh, and Roger aren't swordsmen and i don't particularly care if you do or not


I wouldn't even care that much if not every debate was inflated with swordsman talk and that WSS is the strongest with no evidence.

As you can see I know a lot about swords in general and I still don't understand why OP fans are so fascinated by swords in OP because it never was the main topic of the manga.

I am still struggling after 15 years why is a segment of the OP fandom so fascinated by swordsmen in OP when there are other mangas made only for that purpose


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 23, 2020)

Ren. said:


> See assumptions ...
> None made in the manga.
> 
> 
> ...



People like swords so people talk about swordsmen. If you like swords should be pretty easy to understand.


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## Ren. (Apr 23, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Now sure you could make the argument that Shanks, Rayleigh, and Roger aren't swordsmen and i don't particularly care if you do or not.


Neah topic was not even that.

The point that every discussion is made to is why are those so important to  WSS title that again is not important to the plot of OP.


I do not even get bothered that they can be swordsmen but Oda will not make Roger relevant for the WSS that was my point.

You can quote me on that at the end of the manga!


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> People like swords so people talk about swordsmen. If you like swords should be pretty easy to understand.


I like swords and know more than most of the regulars in here.

I don't discuss swords 99% of the time in here, I would look like a foul.
 doing so in OP, I do that in other manga centered on that.

Also I don't bend every chapter and panel so I can say that swords are important to OP as a story because they are not!
I like OP more than swords.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 23, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Neah topic was not even that.
> 
> The point that every discussion is made to is why are those so important to  WSS title that again is not important to the plot of OP.
> 
> ...



I don't really give a darn about the plot relevance of the WSS. 

As long as Zoro ends up with it and gets it by killing Mihawk I'm happy. Anything beyond that is whatever.


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## Ren. (Apr 23, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> I don't really give a darn about the plot relevance of the WSS.
> 
> *As long as Zoro ends up with it and gets it by killing Mihawk I'm happy.* Anything beyond that is whatever.


You my man!


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## Extravlad (Apr 23, 2020)

Sherlōck said:


> Who has more plot relevance?


Shanks



Sherlōck said:


> Who will go down first in the story?


Mihawk 



Sherlōck said:


> Who wins in a duel ?


Mihawk

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheOmega (Apr 23, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Also cute that WSS is only the strongest person vs persons that carry swords.
> If you include other blades he loses.
> 
> This is so amusing, how is he different vs a sword guy than vs a long sword guy or pole weapon guy?
> ...



That's my point. I believe Mihawk vs WB using ONLY his Bisento is > WB BUT WB using his Bisento AND his DF is > Mihawk

The WS titles and Yonko and their weapons all conflict if everyone with a sword is automatically considered as a swordsman

The Yonko > Pirates
Yonko = Yonko
WSM is a Yonko who is a Man with a Sword 
WSC is a Yonko who is a Man who is a Dragon
Big Mom is a Yonko with a Sword
Shanks is a Yonko who is a Man with a Sword
Mihawk is WSS but NOT a Yonko

So that can only mean that either:

ALL of the titles are incorrect/fake
OR not everyone with a Sword is automatically a Swordsman

Mihawk fans want everyone who has a sword to be considered a Swordsman so that they can claim Mihawk is stronger with the WSS title

BUT we have already seen 3 of the Yonko which are the pirates above ALL other Pirates use swords

On top of that 2 of the Yonko are WS title holders

And THOSE titles INCLUDE Mihawk as does the fact that Mihawk is a Pirate but NOT one of the Yonko

On top of that, we have seen the OTHER 2 Yonko who are NOT WS title users use Swords in order to Clash EVENLY with the 2 Yonko who ARE WS title holders

With his presence alone, one of those Yonko can intimidate the same subordinate who prevented Mihawk from even REACHING the other WS title user who has a sword

Mihawk is cool. I love his design, his attitude and philosophies but people gotta stop tryna over hype him.

It seems like a lot of people reading OP have never done any type of fighting or training where there are several skills that combine into a general performance.

They can't seem to understand that different people have different aptitude with different things.

They think that because 2 people have the same base tools or access to them that they will be utilized in the same manner and to the same degree and effect.

They don't realize that people can have different strengths, specializations, skill levels and areas of forte.

Mihawk's niche is Swordsmanship.

Anyone comes at him pound for pound with a sword and he'll most likely win. But that only applies for swordsmanship. Once the scope moves beyond "swords only" his dominance ceases to exist.

You start letting people flex with their Haki and DF applications and what ever other resources they have and being king of "swordsmanship" no longer means shit.

It's like if you play basketball and you got the "world's strongest jumpshot"

That's cool. You can win the 3 point contests all day but what them handles, endurance, speed, defense, lay ups, passes rebounds, and game iq look like?

THAT'S what people fail to get.

Mihawk > Shanks in pure Swordsmanship,
Shanks > Mihawk in an all out fight

Reactions: Like 4


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## Dunno (Apr 23, 2020)

TheOmega said:


> That's my point. I believe Mihawk vs WB using ONLY his Bisento is > WB BUT WB using his Bisento AND his DF is > Mihawk
> 
> The WS titles and Yonko and their weapons all conflict if everyone with a sword is automatically considered as a swordsman
> 
> ...


Alternatively, a spear isn't a sword.


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## Ren. (Apr 23, 2020)

Dunno said:


> Alternatively, a spear isn't a sword.


A bisento is not a spear!


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## Oddjutsu (Apr 23, 2020)

This thread is like 'hee hee sord go slashy slash'

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheOmega (Apr 23, 2020)

WBs bisento is literally one of the 12 Supreme Grade Swords lol. It's literally in the picture with the rest of the swords and people still wanna play games lol

One of the Top 4 Pirates has a Sword and is the regarded as the World's Strongest Man...

Mihawk is a NON Top 4 Pirate and has a Sword and is a Man and holds the title of WSS...

This means WB is NOT a Swordsman EVEN THOUGH he uses a Sword.

Idk how Mihawk fans find this so hard to grasp lol




Dunno said:


> Alternatively, a spear isn't a sword.





Ren. said:


> A bisento is not a spear!



Bingo

Reactions: Like 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 24, 2020)

TheOmega said:


> WBs bisento is literally one of the 12 Supreme Grade Swords lol. It's literally in the picture with the rest of the swords and people still wanna play games lol
> 
> One of the Top 4 Pirates has a Sword and is the regarded as the World's Strongest Man...
> 
> ...



Bisento is not a sword.


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## killfox (Apr 24, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Bisento is not a sword.


Actually it is according to One piece.



Not only that but it’s classified as one of the 12 supreme grade swords in One piece.



Hopefully this educated some people. It’s literally a sword lol


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## killfox (Apr 24, 2020)

In second thought no point 

edit.


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## Ren. (Apr 25, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Bisento is not a sword.


It is not a spear ...

And in OP is a meito.


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## xmysticgohanx (Apr 25, 2020)

Someone post the viz translation here so I can debunk yall


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## Ren. (Apr 25, 2020)

xmysticgohanx said:


> Someone post the viz translation here so I can debunk yall


I already debunked what you can even debunk.

It is a supreme grade sword/blade aka meito.

Viz means shit because Oda grouped 12 blades together and he does not care about your syntactic argument.

So my advice is to get over it!

_*bisentō*_ (眉尖刀, _brow blade_) was a  used in feudal Japan. The bisentō has various descriptions, "a double-edged long sword with a thick truncated blade", "a spear-like weapon with a blade at the end that resembles a " "a polearm resembling a , with a long, heavy haft and a heavy, curved blade".The bisentō is said to have been used by  and .

_Naginata_ were originally used by the  class of feudal Japan, as well as by  (foot soldiers) and  (warrior monks). The naginata is the iconic weapon of the , a type of female warrior belonging to the Japanese nobility.

In English the word *scimitar* ( or ) refers to a  or  with a curved blade, originating in the . Adapted from the Italian word _scimitarra_ in the mid 16th century from an unknown source, the word became used for all 'Oriental' blades which were curved, compared to the more commonly  European swords of the time. This is apparent in Thomas Page's _The Use of the Broad Sword_. Published: 1746.

There are twelve *Supreme Grade Swords* (最上大業物 _Saijō Ō Wazamono_). These seem to be the highest quality blades.


 ()
 (Cursed) ()
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ODA does not make a distinction between the 12 supreme blades.

If you guys argue that WSS title should be taken literally then so is the 12 supreme blades/swords.

名刀 - _Meitō-Famous Sword -"Famous Sword", "Excellent Sword" or "Named Sword"

There are many blades (swords, spears, etc.) in this world...but there are certain ones that were made by world-renowed blacksmithes. The 12 Supreme Grade Swords, the 21 Great Grade Swords, and the 50 Skillful Grade Swords. - Tenguyama Hitetsu_

So again how is exactly WSS thing on his back classified as a Sword in real life and not a bisento?
Oda never classified the Bisento as a spear because you guessed it, it is not one.

He made it a supreme meito.


Typing this feels like debating @Light D Lamperouge  for 20 pages again.

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheOmega (Apr 25, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Bisento is not a sword.



It's literally in the panel with the speaking of the supreme swords/blades.

Until you show me a manga panel of Shanks, Rayleigh, Roger, Big Mom and WB in a panel with Mihawk when the best swordsmen are mentioned you ain't got shit of an argument


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## Ren. (Apr 25, 2020)

TheOmega said:


> It's literally in the panel with the speaking of the supreme swords/blades.
> 
> Until you show me a manga panel of Shanks, Rayleigh, Roger, Big Mom and WB in a panel with Mihawk when the best swordsmen are mentioned you ain't got shit of an argument





Ren. said:


> _*bisentō*_ (眉尖刀, _brow blade_) was a  used in feudal Japan. The bisentō has various descriptions, "a double-edged long sword with a thick truncated blade", "a spear-like weapon with a blade at the end that resembles a



it is a  spear-like but not a spear also a double-edged long sword!

There are twelve *Supreme Grade Swords* (最上大業物 _Saijō Ō Wazamono_). These seem to be the highest quality blades.


 ()
 (Cursed) ()
 ()

Oda made it a meito a  _Saijō Ō Wazamono meaning he does not give a shit about the definition of those that even believe they know swords.


Again back to base, how is this a sword in real life?


A real sword can't be that long and heavy and the length of the cross is half of Mihwawks body meaning the motions are limited.


The blade part of the sword is almost identical to the blade part of WSM weapon:




So excuse me for asking why is one a sword and the other not a sword?_

Because one has a cross and the other a stick LOL!

Oda answered that both are 
_*Supreme Grade Swords* (最上大業物 Saijō Ō Wazamono)
_

_I say deal with it!
_

Reactions: Like 2


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## HaxHax (Apr 25, 2020)

Well Shanks would have settled this twice already, but Mihawk ran away both times.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 25, 2020)

Ren. said:


> it is a  spear-like but not a spear also a double-edged long sword!
> 
> There are twelve *Supreme Grade Swords* (最上大業物 _Saijō Ō Wazamono_). These seem to be the highest quality blades.
> 
> ...



Bisento is a Pole Weapon.

Pole Weapons aren't swords.


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## TheOmega (Apr 25, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Bisento is a Pole Weapon.
> 
> Pole Weapons aren't swords.



Except for when they're Meito and pop up alongside the other swords

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Apr 25, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Bisento is a Pole Weapon.
> 
> Pole Weapons aren't swords.


The bisentō has various descriptions, "*a double-edged long sword with a thick truncated blade.

Oda made it a twelve Supreme Grade Swords (最上大業物 Saijō Ō Wazamono). These seem to be the highest quality blades.
*
Mihawk sword can't be classified as a sword because of it's length and cross length in real life I mean.

So yeah.

If for example the pole was cut it can be used as a sword with no cross.

And that is irrelevant for Oda he made it a meito next to Yoru again not a normal sword.

No where Oda made the  WSS title only about swords and then he made this is not a sword but this is a sword.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 25, 2020)

Ren. said:


> The bisentō has various descriptions, "*a double-edged long sword with a thick truncated blade.
> 
> Oda made it a twelve Supreme Grade Swords (最上大業物 Saijō Ō Wazamono). These seem to be the highest quality blades.
> *
> ...



A Bisento is a Pole weapon


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## Ren. (Apr 25, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> A Bisento is a Pole weapon


Also a long sword and a meito in OP!
If you expect us to believe that the WSS should be literally taken and face value.

Then respect that Oda made a bisento a meito.

And wait for Oda to elucidate who is stronger and who is not in OP!


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 25, 2020)

TheOmega said:


> Except for when they're Meito and pop up alongside the other swords



That panel also showed a Spear.

Guess Spears are swords now.


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## Ren. (Apr 25, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> That panel also showed a Spear.
> 
> Guess Spears are swords now.


That would be fine but a Bisento is not a spear but it is a meito in OP universe!


Ren. said:


> a double-edged long sword with a thick truncated blade", "a spear-like weapon with a blade at the end that resembles a



Showing that there is a spear there does not makes the Bisento a spear.

Spears are for trusting only, A bisento is a sword with longer reach aka a long sword.

Oda made only 2 swords and a bisento meitos not a spear.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 25, 2020)

Ren. said:


> That would be fine but a Bisento is not a spear but it is a meito in OP universe!
> 
> 
> Showing that there is a spear there does not make a Bisento a spear.
> ...



Bisento is not a spear true. Its also not a sword its a polearm. A Spear is also a polearm just like a bisento.


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## Seraphoenix (Apr 25, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Bisento is a Pole Weapon.
> 
> Pole Weapons aren't swords.


You're cornered here. You're either gonna have to say Mihawk is stronger than WB or say that just because you have a sword, doesn't mean you are a swordsman. 

It's over, we have the high ground.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 25, 2020)

Seraphoenix said:


> You're cornered here. You're either gonna have to say Mihawk is stronger than WB or say that just because you have a sword, doesn't mean you are a swordsman.
> 
> It's over, we have the high ground.



White-beard has a devil fruit so not really.

Swordsman is not a mutually exclusive skill. I can be a swordsmen and anything else i want to be. Being a swordsmen just means you are skilled with a sword not ONLY skilled with a sword.


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## Ren. (Apr 25, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Bisento is not a spear true. Its also not a sword its a polearm. A Spear is also a polearm just like a bisento.


Not even my point, I was debunking yours.

You said spear, a bisento is not  spear in fact it is a long sword similar to the naginata.
A sword is also a blade not all blades are swords yet  not my point again.

Oda made it a meito, he did not make a spear a meito.
A Spear and Bisento only share the stick together, a sword, and bisento share the cutting part as you saw with Yoru.
Cutting the staff shot makes it a sword with no guard.

So sorry until Oda says so, WSM's weapon is a meito similar to WSS's weapon!


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## Seraphoenix (Apr 25, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> White-beard has a devil fruit so not really.


So does Fujitora and he is classified as a swordsman.

You're done


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 25, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Not even my point, I was debunking yours.



Well you failed i mentioned the Spear because Omega said the Bisento was shown next to swords so it must be a sword.

The spear was also showed next to swords and its not a sword.



> You said spear, a bisento is not  spear in fact it is a long sword similar to the naginata.



Never said a Bisento was a spear.



> A sword is also a blade not all blades are swords yet  not my point again.



True.




> Oda made it a meito, he did not make a spear a meito.



Meito means a famed blade.

Anything can be a Meito if it becomes famous.



> A Spear and Bisento only share the stick together, a sword, and bisento share the cutting part as you saw with Yoru.
> Cutting the staff shot makes it a sword with no guard.



Thats nice its still classified as a POLEWEAPON.

POLEWEAPONS ARE NOT SWORDS NOR WILL THEY EVER BE SWORDS.


> So sorry until Oda says so, WSM's weapon is a meito similar to WSS's weapon!



Nope still a Poleweapon.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 25, 2020)

Seraphoenix said:


> So does Fujitora and he is classified as a swordsman.
> 
> You're done



Yes Fuji is a swordsmen.

We have had this conversation before shits not hard. 

Fuji is a swordsmen because he is skilled with a sword. 

If Fuji fights Mihawk and turns him into a paste with a Giant Meteor he is not the Worlds Strongest Swordsmen. Summoning Meteors is now apart of a Swordsmens strength. Thats not a strength swordsmen can obtain by training. 

White-beard is not a swordsmen. He is not skilled with a Sword. 

Even if he was he is a Quake user. Turning Mihawks brain into paste with vibrations is not related to the Sword whatsoever. Its not a sword attack or even a haki attack. 

Brock Lesnar beating Mayweather in the Octagon does not make Brock Lesnar the Strongest boxer in history. Just makes him stronger then Mayweather.


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## Ren. (Apr 25, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Meito means a famed blade.
> 
> Anything can be a Meito if it becomes famous.


Oda made Yoru and WSM's blade meitos, get over it!



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Nope still a Poleweapon.


Don't really care what you say Oda made them the same!

Stop generalizing a bisento is not a general polearm it is described as a long sword and in OP is a meito.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 25, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Oda made Yoru and WSM's blade meitos, get over it!
> 
> 
> Don't really care what you say Oda made them the same!



Meito is not a weapon classification its a status symbol. A Axe being a Meito doesn't turn it into a sword it means the Axe is famous for whatever reason.


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## Beast (Apr 25, 2020)

I’m 100% sure Mihawks yuri is definitely a sword


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## HaxHax (Apr 25, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Meito is not a weapon classification its a status symbol. A Axe being a Meito doesn't turn it into a sword it means the Axe is famous for whatever reason.



_Meitō
名刀


_


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## Seraphoenix (Apr 25, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Yes Fuji is a swordsmen.
> 
> We have had this conversation before shits not hard.
> 
> ...


I didn't ask for headcanon.txt . 

If Fujitora beats Mihawk he is WSS since he is a swordsman.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 25, 2020)

HaxHax said:


> _Meitō
> 名刀
> 
> 
> _




In One Piece, _meito_ is often mistranslated as either part of the name of a sword (e.g. 's  is often recorded by fans as "Meito Shusui" instead of just "Shusui", ignoring the fact that meito is a status) or as a *"renowned blade"* (understandable given that if broken up, 名刀 gives 名 "renowned" and 刀 "sword").

*Meito* is translated simply as *Famous Sword* in the Viz Manga and *Legendary Sword* in the FUNimation dub.





Seraphoenix said:


> I didn't ask for headcanon.txt .
> 
> If Fujitora beats Mihawk he is WSS since he is a swordsman.



If you say so.

That just means EOS Zoro>Shanks, Big Mom, and Fujitora which is fine by me


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## Ren. (Apr 25, 2020)

So a knife is a sword for you based on that kanji?
But a bisento that has the same form for the blade as WSS's blade is not because it has a longer reach!

Got it!

You just confirmed that Oda said Yoru and WB's Naginata(a long sword used by peasants) are both in the same class and there is no distinction made by Oda which was my point but  I guess for you based on the kanji stroke a knife is the same as the Yoru but not a bisento that is from the 12 supreme blades.

Got it!


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## HaxHax (Apr 25, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> In One Piece, _meito_ is often mistranslated as either part of the name of a sword (e.g. 's  is often recorded by fans as "Meito Shusui" instead of just "Shusui", ignoring the fact that meito is a status) or as a *"renowned blade"* (understandable given that if broken up, 名刀 gives 名 "renowned" and 刀 "sword").
> 
> *Meito* is translated simply as *Famous Sword* in the Viz Manga and *Legendary Sword* in the FUNimation dub.



You're not adressing my post at all. Formulate what you mean to say with your own words.

And for the record, the _Wazamono _in _Saijō Ō Wazamono _also means sword_.
_
Whitebeard's weapon is a Famous Sword, of the 12 Supreme Grade Swords.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 25, 2020)

Ren. said:


> So a knife is a sword for you based on that kanji?
> But a bisento that has the same form for the blade as WSS's blade is not because it has a longer reach!
> 
> Got it!
> ...



Some people would argue that most knifes are just small swords, but i never heard of someone good at using knifes or daggers exclusively be considered a swordsmen. Ask a japanese native they could tell you i suppose.

Google Bisento if you want to know why its classified as a Pole Weapon. Im not the one who gets to decide what weapons are classified as. I'm just telling you what the weapon is classified as.

A Naginata is a pole weapon. If a Naginata was a Sword it would be classified as a Sword not a Pole Weapon. No amount of mental gymnastics will change what type of weapon it is.



HaxHax said:


> You're not adressing my post at all. Formulate what you mean to say with your own words.
> 
> And for the record, the _Wazamono _in _Saijō Ō Wazamono _also means sword_.
> _
> Whitebeard's weapon is a Famous Sword, of the 12 Supreme Grade Swords.



The picture explains itself its not confusing.


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## Canute87 (Apr 25, 2020)

Seraphoenix said:


> I didn't ask for headcanon.txt .
> 
> If Fujitora beats Mihawk he is WSS since he is a swordsman.



If he had to use gravity powers would that still count?


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## TheOmega (Apr 25, 2020)

WB's weapon is a Meito!

It's classed as a renown sword/blade!

There's more support for WB's weapon being a Sword than for Shanks being a Swordsman.

The ONLY way out of the argument is claiming that having a BLADE DOES NOT automatically make a WEAPON  a SWORD. But if you say THAT, then the SAME logic dictates that having a BLADE/SWORD DOES NOT automatically make a MAN a SWORDSMAN.

Keep it consistent kid.



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Well you failed i mentioned the Spear because Omega said the Bisento was shown next to swords so it must be a sword.
> 
> The spear was also showed next to swords and its not a sword.
> 
> ...

Reactions: Like 2


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## Dunno (Apr 25, 2020)

HaxHax said:


> You're not adressing my post at all. Formulate what you mean to say with your own words.
> 
> And for the record, the _Wazamono _in _Saijō Ō Wazamono _also means sword_.
> _
> Whitebeard's weapon is a Famous Sword, of the 12 Supreme Grade Swords.


Would you also say that a pole arm is an arm?



TheOmega said:


> WB's weapon is a Meito!
> 
> It's classed as a renown sword/blade!
> 
> ...


All swords have blades, but not all blades are swords. I wouldn't say that I shave with a sword for example, and I'm pretty sure you wouldn't either.


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## Ren. (Apr 25, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Some people would argue that most knifes are just small swords, but i never heard of someone good at using knifes or daggers exclusively be considered a swordsmen. Ask a japanese native they could tell you i suppose.
> 
> Google Bisento if you want to know why its classified as a Pole Weapon. Im not the one who gets to decide what weapons are classified as. I'm just telling you what the weapon is classified as.
> 
> A Naginata is a pole weapon. If a Naginata was a Sword it would be classified as a Sword not a Pole Weapon. No amount of mental gymnastics will change what type of weapon it is.


Again I even said that it was classified as a long sword in quotes similar to a scimitar.

You bring me a kanji definition that includes knives I only said that Oda made Yoru and WSM' blade the same.
Deal with it.

I am using the same logic that you guys use WSS stated by Oda so all blade users should be on this list.


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## Ren. (Apr 25, 2020)

TheOmega said:


> The ONLY way out of the argument is claiming that having a BLADE DOES NOT automatically make a WEAPON a SWORD. But if you say THAT, then the SAME logic dictates that having a BLADE/SWORD DOES NOT automatically make a MAN a SWORDSMAN.
> 
> Keep it consistent kid.


@Donquixote Doflamingo this is also my point.

+ the fact that Oda did not make any distinction between Yoru and WSM' blade.

And your kanji included knives and is a loose definition because a meito can be translated as a blade or sword.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 25, 2020)

TheOmega said:


> WB's weapon is a Meito!
> 
> It's classed as a renown sword/blade!
> 
> ...



Having a Sword does not make you automatically a swordsmen. 

Being called a swordmaster by the databook sure does though, and guess who was called one in the databook?

Shanks


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## HaxHax (Apr 25, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> The picture explains itself its not confusing.


Well then spell it out for me


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## Ren. (Apr 25, 2020)

Dunno said:


> Would you also say that a pole arm is an arm?


This is as retarded as all swordsmen are below WSS because they cary a sword.

The correct definition for every martial art title like the best sword/blade user is the strongest because he has the best skill with that weapon as a whole.

And not anyone that uses a blade/sword is a swordsman and inferior to him because he might have other skills that complimented his primary one that can affect the outcome!


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## HaxHax (Apr 25, 2020)

Dunno said:


> Would you also say that a pole arm is an arm?



The 'arm' in polearm (which is one word) is shorthand for armament.


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## Ren. (Apr 25, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Being called a swordmaster by the databook sure does though, and guess who was called one in the databook?
> 
> Shanks


Yeah a swordmaster that lost his dominant hand and then became a Yonko.

He becomes a Yonko by honing his skills some more I bet!


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 25, 2020)

Ren. said:


> @Donquixote Doflamingo this is also my point.
> 
> + the fact that Oda did not make any distinction between Yoru and WSM' blade.
> 
> And your kanji included knives and is a loose definition because a meito can be translated as a blade or sword.




Oda going off the databook does not dispute the claim that White-beards weapon is a Naginata. Oda could of easily went no my friend its not a Naginata its a sword and in fact one of the 12 best swords he didnt do that though. Cause Meito refers to all blades not just swords.

Based off the info we have whitebeards blade is considered a Naginata which is a POLEWEAPON. Its actually a bisento but i don't expect oda or random fans to know the small differences between Poleweapons.

Why does Oda need to make a distinction between the two?



Ren. said:


> Yeah a swordmaster that lost his dominant hand and the become a Yonko.
> 
> He becomes a Yonko by honing his skills some more I bet!



I would hope so. 

Being weaker then the Lord of the Coast is not a good look for a yonkou.


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## Ren. (Apr 25, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> I would hope so.
> 
> Being weaker then the Lord of the Coast is not a good look for a yonkou.


Don't worry Zoro is weak to nails and he will still be WSS.


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Why does Oda need to make a distinction between the two?


He doesn't because he does not see a difference he cares only for meito's

He doesn't care that he caries a naginata or Yoru for him those two are the same.
And he still does not include him into his WSS because well he never cared for that!


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## Ren. (Apr 25, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> ause Meito refers to all blades not just swords.


Oda does care for your distinction between a naginata and Yoru that is all.

He only gives the swordman to those that he wants to and are important to that title.
He can give Shanks that distinction but has yet to do so and severing his dominant arm is not how he should do it.

I have even been as cool I can be, making them dead equal.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 25, 2020)

HaxHax said:


> Well then spell it out for me



Sure i will explain it all and post some pictures for reference. This shit really is not hard but people lack reading comprehension these days so i guess i shall lay it out for everyone.

1. Japanese fan asks Oda if White-beards massive Naginata is one of the 12 great blades. Swords and Naginatas are literally the 2 most recognizable weapons in japenese culture. So unless this fan is retarded he would not mix up a sword with a naginata. Oda then does not correct him(Even though its more of a bisento then naginata but whatever), oda could of said no its a sword but it is in fact one of the great swords but he did not correct the fan. So at the very least oda did not feel the need to dispute the claim that whitebeards weapon is some type of Naginata. If this japanese fan thought Saijo O Wazamone could only include "SWORDS" he would of never asked Oda if what he considered a "NAGINATA" was apart of the group. Cause as we already established there is little chance this japanese native does not know the different between a naginata and a sword. it would be like me asking someone if a certain type of pistol is the best rifle to buy. Um no cause its a pistol not a rifle not the same shit.



2. I can't find the picture but if you read the Viz Translation of chapter 912 the translation refers to various grades as weapons not swords. This is supported by the very same panel which shows White-beards Naginata(Bisento) and a Spear. Two weapons everyone and their grandma knows are not considered swords. So what makes more sense here. That oda wants us to view Spears and Naginatas as Swords? Or that he wants us to know any Famed *Blade* can be considered top class, and make it to the status of one of the Ranked blades in one piece? Sure oda could of just made a complete separate category just for spears and naginatas but that would be retarded Why do that? If a Black Smith makes a high quality weapon, and it happens to be a Spear instead of a sword. Of course it still deserves praise and potential meito status if its used by powerful and prestigious individuals. Much more easier just to put them in the same rankings which is what he did.

3. Japanese use Sword a lot in reference to blades but its not them literally considering the weapon in question as a sword. For example The word "*naginata*" *means* "mowing down sword" or "reaping sword". Oh it has sword in its description it must be a sword now right? Thats clearly not the case. A Naginata is not classified as a sword its a poleweapon.


So yes a little common sense goes a long way. Obviously translation issues can make things a little confusing but thats only if you make them confusing. We know everything doesn't always translate good from japanese to english to start with thats where common sense comes in. For Example
In One Piece, _meito_ is often mistranslated as either part of the name of a sword (e.g. 's  is often recorded by fans as "Meito Shusui" instead of just "Shusui", ignoring the fact that meito is a status) or as a "renowned blade" (understandable given that if broken up, 名刀 gives 名 "renowned" and 刀 "sword").

*Meito* is translated simply as *Famous Sword* in the Viz Manga and *Legendary Sword* in the FUNimation dub.

Literal translation of Meito is Famous Sword. Literal translation of Naginata is mowing down sword. In both cases neither actually refer to the weapon in question as exclusively a sword. *A Meito can be a Spear or a Naginata/bisento as well not just swords.

Edit:* This is what happens when people try to push headcannon to try and dispute other charcters strength. You get ridiclous shit like a Japanese Native Oda wants us to consider Swords as Spears/Naginatas. The only reason we are even having this discussion is because people want to argue if White-beard is a swordsmen or not to try and downplay Mihawk XD. Who the fuck cares if WB is a swordsmen or not.


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## TheOmega (Apr 25, 2020)

All Swordsmen have Swords. Not all men with Swords are Swordsmen.

Squares and rectangles and trapezoids my friend. Just cuz a shape has 4 sides does not autonatically make it a square.

You might not shave with a sword but I've seen it done.

And about that polearm bein an arm.. It is. Weapons are armaments. They basically serve as tools that fulfil the will of the wielder. An "extension of one's self" so to speak. You can't reach someone with your hand so you arm yourself to exert your influence upon them.

The philosophy then becomes at what point do you become synonymous with your tools.

Swordmen without Swords, ain't shit. One of those "the weapon makes the man vs the man makes the weapon" arguements.

People like WB however are still pretty capable without their sword. That means that they aren't "limited" or "defined" by their sword.

Stay woke



Dunno said:


> Would you also say that a pole arm is an arm?
> 
> 
> All swords have blades, but not all blades are swords. I wouldn't say that I shave with a sword for example, and I'm pretty sure you wouldn't either.



The databook?My guy, really? LOL I wanna see it in the Manga. Same way WB's Sword was shown amongst the other Meito, I wanna see Shanks & Big Mom and them shown amongst Mihawk and the swordsmen.



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Having a Sword does not make you automatically a swordsmen.
> 
> Being called a swordmaster by the databook sure does though, and guess who was called one in the databook?
> 
> Shanks




Yea. It's really sad that he either doesn't get it or pretends not to. Guess it's gonna sit on his head when he sees Shanks going all out and showing a high reliance on Haki techniques



Ren. said:


> This is as retarded as all swordsmen are below WSS because they care a sword.
> 
> The correct definition for every martial art title like the best sword/blade user is the strongest because he has the best skill with that weapon as a whole.
> 
> And not anyone that use a blade/sword is a swordsman and inferior to his because he might have other skills that complicated his primary one that can affect the outcome!


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## Dunno (Apr 25, 2020)

HaxHax said:


> The 'arm' in polearm (which is one word) is shorthand for armament.


So your answer would be no I assume? My point is that compound words are not always described by the individual parts they are made up of. A _Saijō Ō Wazamono _isn't necessarily a_ Wazamono _just because it contains the word _Wazamono_. A polearm isn't a pole, and it isn't an arm, it's a polearm.



TheOmega said:


> All Swordsmen have Swords. Not all men with Swords are Swordsmen.
> 
> Squares and rectangles and trapezoids my friend. Just cuz a shape has 4 sides does not autonatically make it a square.
> 
> ...


It's obvious that not all people who carry swords are swordsmen, I don't think anyone is arguing that. There is a huge difference between an arm and an armament, and a polearm isn't an arm.


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## Ren. (Apr 25, 2020)

Dunno said:


> So your answer would be no I assume? My point is that compound words are not always described by the individual parts they are made up of. A _Saijō Ō Wazamono _isn't necessarily a_ Wazamono _just because it contains the word _Wazamono_. A polearm isn't a pole, and it isn't an arm, it's a polearm.


Dude ...

It is in a category but is not one because you say so then @Donquixote Doflamingo comes and brings me the real-life definition of a naginata that is in similar distinction with a scimitar that is a sword.


Then guys explain to me how is Yoru a sword in real life?
When in fact it is a cross with a blade attached to it.
And the blade is identical with the blade on the Bisento.


If you say that Oda made it so then Oda also made WB's one of the meitos!


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## TheOmega (Apr 25, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Sure i will explain it
> 
> 3. Japanese use Sword a lot in reference to blades but its not them literally considering the weapon in question as a sword. For example The word "*naginata*" *means* "mowing down sword" or "reaping sword". Oh it has sword in its description it must be a sword
> 
> ...



Thanks for the clarification. I guess this means every person with a sword is not exclusively a swordsman 

Guess this proves Mihawk's title doesn't apply to any of the Yonko

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ren. (Apr 25, 2020)

TheOmega said:


> Thanks for the clarification. I guess this means every person with a sword is not exclusively a swordsman
> 
> Guess this proves Mihawk's title doesn't apply to any of the Yonko


Wait did you not know that the kaji for swords also includes knives.

What the fuck is this shit.

Oda decides who is weaker and he makes feats for top tiers.


Oda can resurrect Roger and shit on Mihawk with his title and all.

How exactly can you be so 100% with Mihawk when the dude did shit on a panel and has never faced a top tier on panel.

His best feat is having duels with Shanks and that was ages ago, who exactly did he fight for his skills to go from that to Yonko+ as Shaks is now Yonko.

Neah we don't care, well Kaido is above  Roger because he is WSC and Roger is only a shit PK that was fighting Garp, WB, Rox and other weak ass pirates.


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## HaxHax (Apr 25, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Sure i will explain it all and post some pictures for reference. This shit really is not hard but people lack reading comprehension these days so i guess i shall lay it out for everyone.
> 
> 1. Japanese fan asks Oda if White-beards massive Naginata is one of the 12 great blades. Swords and Naginatas are literally the 2 most recognizable weapons in japenese culture. So unless this fan is retarded he would not mix up a sword with a naginata. Oda then does not correct him(Even though its more of a bisento then naginata but whatever), oda could of said no its a sword but it is in fact one of the great swords but he did not correct the fan. So at the very least oda did not feel the need to dispute the claim that whitebeards weapon is some type of Naginata. If this japanese fan thought Saijo O Wazamone could only include "SWORDS" he would of never asked Oda if what he considered a "NAGINATA" was apart of the group. Cause as we already established there is little chance this japanese native does not know the different between a naginata and a sword. it would be like me asking someone if a certain type of pistol is the best rifle to buy. Um no cause its a pistol not a rifle not the same shit.
> 
> ...



You have all the right components for the correct analysis right here. Oda is writing the story from a Japanese perspective, yet you insist on clinging to a European definition of what a sword is. So yes, Oda could also include a Naginata as a meito - a famous sword.

And using an sbs translation that does not fully translate meito doesn't negate the fact that Whitebeard's weapon is considered a famous sword of the 12 supreme grade swords, according to the author of this story.


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## TheOmega (Apr 25, 2020)

Dunno said:


> So your answer would be no I assume? My point is that compound words are not always described by the individual parts they are made up of. A _Saijō Ō Wazamono _isn't necessarily a_ Wazamono _just because it contains the word _Wazamono_. A polearm isn't a pole, and it isn't an arm, it's a polearm.
> 
> 
> It's obvious that not all people who carry swords are swordsmen, I don't think anyone is arguing that. There is a huge difference between an arm and an armament, and a polearm isn't an arm.



You arm yourself with it by using your arms.

Do you get how that works?

The Bisento is an extended Sword.

It's literally a Sword with a pole handle.

Naginatas are swords. They even had guards on em lmao


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## HaxHax (Apr 25, 2020)

Dunno said:


> So your answer would be no I assume? My point is that compound words are not always described by the individual parts they are made up of. A _Saijō Ō Wazamono _isn't necessarily a_ Wazamono _just because it contains the word _Wazamono_. A polearm isn't a pole, and it isn't an arm, it's a polearm.



_Saijō Ō Wazamono _isn't a term Oda came up with.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Apr 25, 2020)

HaxHax said:


> You have all the right components for the correct analysis right here. Oda is writing the story from a Japanese perspective, yet you insist on clinging to a European definition of what a sword is. So yes, Oda could also include a Naginata as a meito - a famous sword.
> 
> And using an sbs translation that does not fully translate meito doesn't negate the fact that Whitebeard's weapon is considered a famous sword of the 12 supreme grade swords, according to the author of this story.


I literally don't understand some fans.


Japan best sword user were those like Musashi that were writing books about swords on how becoming one with the sword.

Fans neah fam every one with a sword is a swordsman because he has a sword and fights with it!

Fuji he is swordsman, yeah right he attacks with meteorites and his sword spams gravity!


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 25, 2020)

TheOmega said:


> Thanks for the clarification. I guess this means every person with a sword is not exclusively a swordsman
> 
> Guess this proves Mihawk's title doesn't apply to any of the Yonko



Not sure what dream land you live in.

No one is arguing that every person with a sword is exclusively a swordsmen. 

Mihawks title applies to one Yonkou his rival the Swordmaster Shanks.


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## Ren. (Apr 25, 2020)

TheOmega said:


> The Bisento is an extended Sword.
> 
> It's literally a Sword with a pole handle.
> 
> Naginata are swords. They even had guards on em lmao


I hate repeating this shit but some just don't care.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 25, 2020)

HaxHax said:


> You have all the right components for the correct analysis right here. Oda is writing the story from a Japanese perspective, yet you insist on clinging to a European definition of what a sword is. So yes, Oda could also include a Naginata as a meito - a famous sword.
> 
> And using an sbs translation that does not fully translate meito doesn't negate the fact that Whitebeard's weapon is considered a famous sword of the 12 supreme grade swords, according to the author of this story.



Japanese people do not think Naginatas or Spears are swords. I lived in Japan for years they know the difference.

Edit: If Oda refers to someone using a weapon that is clearly not a sword as a swordsmen i will gladly concede this point. I just don't see a strong enough evidence to support that claim. When the perfectly reasonable counter that oda is including all bladed weapons as grade weapons not just swords can be made.


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## Ren. (Apr 25, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Japanese people do not think Naginatas or Spears are swords. I lived in Japan for years they know the difference.


And why is the Yoru a sword again?

It is a freaking cross with a blade!


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## TheOmega (Apr 25, 2020)

HaxHax said:


> You have all the right components for the correct analysis right here. Oda is writing the story from a Japanese perspective, yet you insist on clinging to a European definition of what a sword is. So yes, Oda could also include a Naginata as a meito - a famous sword.
> 
> And using an sbs translation that does not fully translate meito doesn't negate the fact that Whitebeard's weapon is considered a famous sword of the 12 supreme grade swords, according to the author of this story.



EXACTLY. People always tryna look at Japanese shit without considering the Japanese perspective and CONTEXT!

They ain't sayin shit when Mihawk uses a necklace knife or Zoro uses a suicide knife or a scythe but they wanna talk when WB uses a weapon that is listed and directly compared to the WSS's signature weapon.

Shit is crazy


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 25, 2020)

Ren. said:


> And why is the Yoru a sword again?
> 
> It is a freaking cross with a blade!



Sword "a weapon with a long metal blade and a hilt with a hand guard, used for thrusting or striking and now typically worn as part of ceremonial dress"

Yoru fits the description it looks to me. Its a manga it having ridiculous features doesn't change it from being a sword.


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## Ren. (Apr 25, 2020)

@Donquixote Doflamingo do you classify this as a swordsman?


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## Ren. (Apr 25, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Sword "a weapon with a long metal blade and a hilt with a hand guard, used for thrusting or striking and now typically worn as part of ceremonial dress"


I never said in OP.

I said in RL, tell how will you defend with that cross?

It is like 1m in length!

it has nothing to do with OP world, in real life it is too long for Mihawk's height and the cross will make it impractical for someone of Mihwk's arm length!


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Yoru fits the description it looks to me.


Still, a cross with a blade attached!


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 25, 2020)

Ren. said:


> @Donquixote Doflamingo do you classify this as a swordsman?



Swordsmen is anyone skilled with a Sword.

If Said Swordsmen also wants to use a scythe as well he is welcome to.



Ren. said:


> I never said in OP.
> 
> I said in RL, tell how will you defend with that cross?
> 
> ...



This ain't real life its a manga. 

So whats your point exactly? Mihawk has superhuman strength he can do things regular humans cant.


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## Ren. (Apr 25, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> This ain't real life its a manga.
> 
> So whats your point exactly? Mihawk has superhuman strength he can do things regular humans cant.


That has nothing to do with strength if he wants to twist his guard for defence he hits his own head LOL!
That sword is impracticable to wield.



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Swordsmen is anyone skilled with a Sword.
> 
> If Said Swordsmen also wants to use a scythe as well he is welcome to.


Meaning WB can be a  swordsman.

So restricting a naginata has no point!
Face it you just really want to put Shanks below Mihawk and that is kind of all.

Also if Zoro can use something else and still be a swordman then Shanks can still be a swordmaster and can still use something else.

Until he goes all out and only shows what Mihawk has both are equal


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 25, 2020)

Ren. said:


> That has nothing to do with strength if he wants to twist his guard for defence he hits his own head LOL!
> That sword is impracticable to wield.
> 
> 
> ...



I am not one to tell the WSS what kind of sword he should use. Go ahead and tell Oda his design for Yoru is impractical i don't care XD. 

Yes anybody in One piece can be a swordsmen as long as they have body parts and can use a sword they can get good at using it and become a swordsmen. This includes White-beard. 

Whitebeard has never shown to be skilled with a sword. So hes not a swordsmen. Can he be of course WB is a great man probably would take him no time at all to become a master swordsmen if he wanted to be one. He wasen't one though.

Yes Shanks is allowed to have skills outside of Swordsmanship. 

No until Shanks proves he has skills outside of swordsmanship Mihawk cuts him in half.


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## Vivo Diez (Apr 25, 2020)

1. Shanks
2. Shanks
3. Shanks


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## Ren. (Apr 25, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> No until Shanks proves he has skills outside of swordsmanship Mihawk cuts him in half.


This is only the only thing we disagree on so meh!


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 25, 2020)

Ren. said:


> This is only the only thing we disagree on so meh!



As i said before if you want to ride the fence and say they are equal cause we haven't seen everything from them yet i don't care thats how you do things i respect it.

I don't ride the fence though. I pick a side my friend.


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## Seraphoenix (Apr 25, 2020)

Canute87 said:


> If he had to use gravity powers would that still count?


To me no, to Oda yes.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 25, 2020)

Seraphoenix said:


> To me no, to Oda yes.



So EOS Zoro>Shanks then correct?

In odas mind it does not matter if Shanks is haki jesus or has a devil fruit he is still a swordsmen. 

Meaning Zoro needs to kill him before the manga is over with.


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## Ren. (Apr 25, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> So EOS Zoro>Shanks then correct?
> 
> In odas mind it does not matter if Shanks is haki jesus or has a devil fruit he is still a swordsmen.
> 
> Meaning Zoro needs to kill him before the manga is over with.


Simple If Zoro shows feats above Shanks he is if not he is not!

You don't know what Oda made Shanks for he could say that WSS is in fact not superior because Shanks uses haki in X way!

Also Zoro will have his feats and we will put him in the tier that his feats show him to be.


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## Seraphoenix (Apr 25, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> So EOS Zoro>Shanks then correct?
> 
> In odas mind it does not matter if Shanks is haki jesus or has a devil fruit he is still a swordsmen.
> 
> Meaning Zoro needs to kill him before the manga is over with.


If we use your logic then EoS Zoro>>WB=Roger given that Mihawk has to be stronger than WB who had a sword.

You don't want to go there, so you're copping pleas in this thread trying to convince people that your Webster Oxford definition of a sword is the same as the definition Oda has given


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 25, 2020)

Seraphoenix said:


> If we use your logic then EoS Zoro>>WB=Roger given that Mihawk has to be stronger than WB who had a sword.
> 
> You don't want to go there, so you're copping pleas in this thread trying to convince people that your Webster Oxford definition of a sword is the same as the definition Oda has given



You didn't actually respond to my question?

You stated that in Oda's mind Fujitora beating Mihawk with his gravity powers is fair game.

So naturally that applies to Shanks as well does it not?

In which case Zoro needs to be stronger then Shanks before he can be the true WSS or beat someone stronger then Shanks?

So what am i missing here?

Also EoS Zoro>Everyone this is common knowledge


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## Ren. (Apr 25, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Also EoS Zoro>Everyone this is common knowledge


NO!

He is as strong as his feast makes him be!

If Luffy shows weaker feats than Roger he is below Roger.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 25, 2020)

meitos are blades, not swords
bisento isnt a sword
neither is WB a swordsman/bisentoman
Shanks' Gryphon is a sword tho
Mihawk > shanks

Reactions: Like 2


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## Seraphoenix (Apr 25, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> You didn't actually respond to my question?
> 
> You stated that in Oda's mind Fujitora beating Mihawk with his gravity powers is fair game.
> 
> ...


To be WSS he has to beat the guy with the title which is Mihawk. Whether that makes him stronger than every swordsman is debateable as titles are not word of god things. It's the in-verse perception. 

What you are missing is that you don't want to admit that WB had a sword and thus you have to say Mihawk was stronger than him. Despite Mihawk admitting inferiority to a WB that took off his medical tools that stabilised his condition. You realise that you are going to have to admit that the title is the in-verse perception because not even you believes that Mihawk is stronger than WB. So you've been arguing that his bisento is not a sword despite being corrected on it multiple times.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 25, 2020)

Ren. said:


> NO!
> 
> He is as strong as his feast makes him be!
> 
> If Luffy shows weaker feats than Roger he is below Roger.



Yes and EOS Zoro will slay Mihawks brother Im-sama.

Who as we all know is the Strongest Entity in one piece



Seraphoenix said:


> To be WSS he has to beat the guy with the title which is Mihawk. Whether that makes him stronger than every swordsman is debateable as titles are not word of god things. It's the in-verse perception.
> 
> What you are missing is that you don't want to admit that WB had a sword and thus you have to say Mihawk was stronger than him. Despite Mihawk admitting inferiority to a WB that took off his medical tools that stabilised his condition. You realise that you are going to have to admit that the title is the in-verse perception because not even you believes that Mihawk is stronger than WB. So you've been arguing that his bisento is not a sword despite being corrected on it multiple times.



So you are of the opinion that Zoro will not be the actual WSS EoS?

Already went over the WB part multiple times we shall agree to disagree on that part.

Also your own logic is weak here. If WSS title is wrong then so is White-beards. Meaning i no longer have any reason to cap Mihawks strength below that of White-beards. Without White-beards title being factored in Mihawk can very well be stronger then WB. What's stopping him exactly? There is no title saying he has to be weaker then WB so at that point its completely up to whatever feats Oda gives mihawk down the road.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 25, 2020)

imagine knowing Shanks grew up watching Roger and Rayleigh swing swords
got a named sword from 1 of them
dueled the future WSS
but "he isnt a swordsman"


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## Ren. (Apr 25, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Yes and EOS Zoro will slay Mihawks brother Im-sama.
> 
> Who as we all know is the Strongest Entity in one piece


Im is a girl and no diffs her little brother and that has nothing to do with what I was saying.


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## Flame (Apr 25, 2020)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> imagine knowing Shanks grew up watching Roger and Rayleigh swing swords
> got a named sword from 1 of them
> dueled the future WSS
> but "he isnt a swordsman"


+ replaced the bones on his jolly roger to swords


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## Seraphoenix (Apr 25, 2020)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> meitos are blades, not swords
> bisento isnt a sword
> neither is WB a swordsman/bisentoman
> Shanks' Gryphon is a sword tho
> Mihawk > shanks





Shiba D. Inu said:


> imagine knowing Shanks grew up watching Roger and Rayleigh swing swords
> got a named sword from 1 of them
> dueled the future WSS
> but "he isnt a swordsman"


These bots are getting really advanced now huh.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 25, 2020)

Flame said:


> + replaced the bones on his jolly roger to swords


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## Flame (Apr 25, 2020)

Shiba D. Inu said:


>


he literally can't stay away from swords


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## TheOmega (Apr 25, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> So EOS Zoro>Shanks then correct?
> 
> In odas mind it does not matter if Shanks is haki jesus or has a devil fruit he is still a swordsmen.
> 
> Meaning Zoro needs to kill him before the manga is over with.




In Oda's mind it doesn't matter if the blade is straight, curved, on a long handle, short handle, medium handle, WHATEVER if it's a blade it's a sword in his mind.

And being that it's HIS universe he gets to decide what he interprets shit as.

He don't give a darn if it's a coupe, limo, truck, bus, or a tank. If he wants to call it a car in his world he can do so and you can't tell him otherwise 

You're worried about the "form" of a sword. Oda is worried about the "function" of a sword. Can the shit cut you? Okay then it's a blade 


Well seeing as how I estimate Shanks at Prime Rayleigh level and being that Zoro is the 2nd coming of Rayleigh then yea, I fully expect EoS Zoro to have surpassed Shanks.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 25, 2020)

TheOmega said:


> In Oda's mind it doesn't matter if the blade is straight, curved, on a long handle, short handle, medium handle, WHATEVER if it's a blade it's a sword in his mind.
> 
> And being that it's HIS universe he gets to decide what he interprets shit as.
> 
> ...



Cool So Zoro>Shanks glad we agree


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## TheOmega (Apr 25, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Cool So Zoro>Shanks glad we agree



He gon have to eventually.

This is a story about Strawhat Luffy becoming Pirate King not about the Yonko or their little Shichibukai buddies


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## Gledania (Apr 25, 2020)

Seraphoenix said:


> To be WSS he has to beat the guy with the title which is Mihawk. *Whether that makes him stronger than every swordsman is debateable *as titles are not word of god things. It's the in-verse perception.



That doesn't work if said character in the story is a main character and will realize his dream ...
Otherwise it would be as bad as luffy being renown as the PK without really being one, or Sanji dying after finding all blue just for Oda to reveal it wasn't the true all blue ...
Once Zoro get the title he will be the strongest Swordsman in name *and fact.*


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## Seraphoenix (Apr 25, 2020)

Gledinos said:


> That doesn't work if said character in the story is a main character and will realize his dream ...
> Otherwise it would be as bad as luffy being renown as the PK without really being one, or Sanji dying after finding all blue just for Oda to reveal it wasn't the true all blue ...
> Once Zoro get the title he will be the strongest Swordsman in name *and fact.*


That's not how stories work. Anyone who had to read and analyse books at school would know that. 

Also who said Zoro is a main character? he is just the underling of the main character Luffy. One Piece at its heart is about Luffy,Shanks and Teach.


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## Gledania (Apr 25, 2020)

Seraphoenix said:


> That's not how stories work. Anyone who had to read and analyse books at school would know that.


That's how stories work. Especially one piece. Oda is not gonna draw you the story of a char for 25 years just to have him not realize his dream.
Zoro will be the stronger swordsman just like luffy will be the pirate king. Oda wont give them false titles or false hope about achieving their dreams.



Seraphoenix said:


> Also who said Zoro is a main character? he is just the underling of the main character Luffy. One Piece at its heart is about Luffy,Shanks and Teach.


Zoro is not a main character ???  ????

Litteraly all the Strawhats *ARE the main characters*. They are the core of this story , the guys that we have been following since day 1 and the reason we follow this manga. No one will get more focus than them.



Was Shanks helping luffy in east blue ? Was he helping him in alabasta ? Drum ? Little garden ? Skypea ? ? Enies lobby ?  Saboady ? Thriller bark ? Did Oda gave him more than 6500 panels over the manga ?

One piece as it's heart is about the strawhats (and luffy mostly) realizing their dreams and traveling around the world ,* it's an adventure manga *about a group of youngsters discovering the world and fulfilling their dreams , not about defeating shanks or Black beard. Any of them could die tomorow and Oda would still make Luffy the PK in a way or another , and have him travel with his nakama until they reach Laugh tale.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 25, 2020)

Gledinos said:


> the strongest Swordsman in name *and fact.*


just like Mihawk is now


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## Gledania (Apr 25, 2020)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> just like Mihawk is now



Inb4 Ghandi + Bonney ability

Prime ghandi theory is written on the stars


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 25, 2020)

Gledinos said:


> Inb4 Ghandi + Bonney ability
> 
> Prime ghandi theory is written on the stars


Mihawk kicks Prime Gandhis ass


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## xmysticgohanx (Apr 25, 2020)

Ren. said:


> There are many blades (swords, spears, etc.) in this world...but there are certain ones that were made by world-renowed blacksmithes. The 12 Supreme Grade Swords, the 21 Great Grade Swords, and the 50 Skillful Grade Swords. - _Tenguyama Hitetsu_


Oda differentiates swords from the rest. The Graded weapons are blades. Anything counts there.

There are *many blades *(swords, spears, etc.) in this world...but *there are certain ones that were made by world-renowed blacksmithes*

The Graded weapons can be any blade. Swords are their own thing. WB's bisento is a blade. Mihawk's sword is a sword. Shanks's sword is a sword. Rayleigh's sword is a sword

A better translation for Supreme Grade swords / Great grade swords; is Supreme Grade blades / Great Grade blades. Oda tell us that himself in that passage


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## Zoro20 (Apr 25, 2020)

Shanks has more plot relevance 
but i see them at the same level 

Why there is always this debate of Shanks vs mihawk everywhere in forums?


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## Seraphoenix (Apr 26, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Also your own logic is weak here. If WSS title is wrong then so is White-beards. Meaning i no longer have any reason to cap Mihawks strength below that of White-beards. Without White-beards title being factored in Mihawk can very well be stronger then WB. What's stopping him exactly? There is no title saying he has to be weaker then WB so at that point its completely up to whatever feats Oda gives mihawk down the road.


Yes. Say Mihawk >WB with your chest instead of dancing around the issue.



Gledinos said:


> That's how stories work. Especially one piece. Oda is not gonna draw you the story of a char for 25 years just to have him not realize his dream.
> Zoro will be the stronger swordsman just like luffy will be the pirate king. Oda wont give them false titles or false hope about achieving their dreams.
> 
> 
> ...


Every kid who had to analyse books in school knows you don't make definitive statements. Every literature review is based on inductive arguments. We analyse the story and come to likely conclusions. We don't insert word of god propositions as that's pretty stupid. 

Mihawk has the title of WSS in the story. To get the title you have to beat him. Just like Jon Jones has the title of UFC light heavyweight champion. To get the title you have to beat him. Does that mean that we can completely rule out the possibility of anyone at that weight class being better than him? No, because we are not Yahweh. 

This nonsense about it 'being an empty dream' if he isn't in fact WSS is nothing more than emotional Zoro fans who can't read a basic story. 

And yes Zoro is just a side character. Luffy's dream is to be a man like Shanks. Shanks is even in every volume where descriptions of the characters are given. For OP's 20th anniversary did Oda draw the SHs? No, he drew Luffy and Shanks because that's what the story is about:

Don't overstate Zoro's importance when he is just a small part of the main characters goal (Have a crew that surpasses Shanks').

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gledania (Apr 26, 2020)

Seraphoenix said:


> Mihawk has the title of WSS in the story. To get the title you have to beat him. Just like Jon Jones has the title of UFC light heavyweight champion. To get the title you have to beat him. Does that mean that we can completely rule out the possibility of anyone at that weight class being better than him? No, because we are not Yahweh.



You started well.


Seraphoenix said:


> This nonsense about it 'being an empty dream' if he isn't in fact WSS is nothing more than emotional Zoro fans who can't read a basic story.



You ended bad.

I'm not arguing wether Mihawk title means annything. Mihawk is not a main character and him being or not the true WSS , *in absolute*,  is not neccesary.

It is however for mihawk to be stronger or at least equal to any swordman not named Zoro by EoS ,if he indeed face him by the end of the story, otherwise zoro taking the WSS title would lose it's core symbolic. Oda wouldn't have Zoro a fake title.
It's not emotional complaint,  it's a fact. If there are stronger or equal swordman to zoro by the day he take his title , be it or not from mihawk, then Zoro title lose it's legitimacy. Zoro doesn't only want be renown as the WSS, he want to BE the WSS. Main characters fullfiling their dreams is basic story telling. The only other way is someone to carry his burden and fullfil zoro dream in his place if Zoro dies somehow (just like with kuina) but we know Oda will never do that.




Seraphoenix said:


> And yes Zoro is just a side character. Luffy's dream is to be a man like Shanks. Shanks is even in every volume where descriptions of the characters are given. For OP's 20th anniversary did Oda draw the SHs? No, he drew Luffy and Shanks because that's what the story is about:



Oh common bruh this delusional thinking.

Zoro is not just a side character. *He is a main character. *Not THE main character of this story, but still a main character.

It means that he is among the few characters who will get a constant focus throught the entire story just like the others strawhats.

Luffy is the most important strawhats,  but the strawhats are the core of this story. *We are following their adventure,  not shanks.*

Shanks is an important character but he is not a *main character.

We're not following his adventure. *We ARE following the strawhats story from the day they appeared to the day they will end their adventure.
We know their childhood and past, their struggle , their evolutions throught the story , what they like , how they acte between each others , their different contributions in every arc so far , their relationship between each others , with luffy , their dreams , struggles , funny moments , ect... they are getting focus for years. They are not sitting here eating apples , they play major roles in every arc luffy is passing throught exept few exeptions. Oda wouldn't bother giving them individual dreams not linked to One piece if they had no importance in his eyes.



Shanks is the guy luffy want to surpass. End of quote. Most of the things he did are off panelled or mysteries. We know almost nothing about him despite  him being introduced in day 1.
The story doesn't focus on him , it focus on luffy adventure with his nakama.

The story is not about luffy surpassing shanks it's about luffy becoming PK.

Also,  I give little to no fuck about shanks being brought in every volume the same way I don't give a shit about pandaman. How is this even an argument???
What did shanks in fushia ?
In baratie arc ?
in Arlong park ?
What did shanks in alabasta ?
What did he do in skypea ? (Was he even mentioned?)
What did he do in EL ?
Saboady ?
Amazon lily ?
Impel down ?
Fishnan island ?
Punk hasard?
DR ?
Zou ?
WCI ???
Wano ???

What was his contribution in all this arcs ??? Litteraly all the vilains luffy faced and the people he saved didn't give a shit about shanks or what he's doing right now.

Did he get any focus ???

In HxH are you gonna tell me Gon's father was more relevant to the story than was kilua ???



Seraphoenix said:


> Don't overstate Zoro's importance when he is just a small part of the main characters goal (Have a crew that surpasses Shanks').



Zoro importance is not to surpass shanks crew and the story of zoro doesn't revolve about him surpassing beckman or any of shanks nakama , you're full delusional here I bet zoro doesn't know most of their names nor care about them.

WE don't know most of them. 

Fucking carrot got more panel time than any of them.

Once luffy meet shanks and give him his hat back shanks will lose all his relevance,  luffy will go take the one piece and defeat Imu. Amd who will get the focus at that time ? The strawhats  just like they did since the beginning.

Now I didn't expect I had one day to argue against someone that the SH are the main characters and that they will all fulfil their dreams  Zoro is not gonna fulfill his dream throught a lie. You may as well make him assassinate the WSS in his sleep it would be the same garbage.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 26, 2020)

bear with dat truth bomb


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 26, 2020)

Seraphoenix said:


> Yes. Say Mihawk >WB with your chest instead of dancing around the issue.
> 
> 
> Every kid who had to analyse books in school knows you don't make definitive statements. Every literature review is based on inductive arguments. We analyse the story and come to likely conclusions. We don't insert word of god propositions as that's pretty stupid.
> ...



Nope Old WB>Everyone not named Roger, Rocks, Prime Garp, and maybe Im-sama.


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## Seraphoenix (Apr 26, 2020)

Gledinos said:


> You started well.
> 
> 
> You ended bad.
> ...


More emotional fanfics. He would have the title of WSS. It being an empty dream if he isn't in fact by word of god is your interpretation that bears no relation to how literature is read by anyone serious. You would know this if you had to analyse any book in school or University. No one in their right mind attributes word of god statements to character analysis. Your ignorance on the matter doesn't somehow make you right. Mihawk's title is the in-verse perception. If Zoro beats Mihawk he would get the title of WSS in verse. You seem to be conflating One Piece the story, which we analyse and Oda who exists outside the world of One Piece. Our job as readers is to make judgements based on what is shown in the manga. Anytime you go to these Yahweh arguments, all you are doing is conflating the two.




Gledinos said:


> Oh common bruh this delusional thinking.
> 
> Zoro is not just a side character. *He is a main character. *Not THE main character of this story, but still a main character.
> 
> ...


You wrote a whole lot of irrelevant stuff here 

Zoro is a side character. Shanks not appearing in every volume is irrelevant as he is the MC's goal. There is only one MC and that is Luffy.

Your attempts to downplay Shanks are hilarious. I just showed you that after 20 years, when celebrating his work, Oda didn't draw all these 'main characters', he drew Shanks and Luffy. That's his dream. To surpass Shanks and become PK and become just like Shanks. The narrator even tells us he wants to be a man like Shanks.

Don't be mad that Zoro is just the main character's underling. It isn't that serious. At the end of the day it's the Luffy show.


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## Seraphoenix (Apr 26, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Nope Old WB>Everyone not named Roger, Rocks, Prime Garp, and maybe Im-sama.


WB is a swordsman so he has to be weaker than Mihawk.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 26, 2020)

Seraphoenix said:


> WB is a swordsman so he has to be weaker than Mihawk.



If that's the logic you want to use go ahead I can't stop you. 

You look silly though


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## Gledania (Apr 26, 2020)

Seraphoenix said:


> More emotional fanfics. He would have the title of WSS. It being an empty dream if he isn't in fact by word of god is your interpretation that bears no relation to how literature is read by anyone serious. You would know this if you had to analyse any book in school or University. No one in their right mind attributes word of god statements to character analysis. Your ignorance on the matter doesn't somehow make you right. Mihawk's title is the in-verse perception. If Zoro beats Mihawk he would get the title of WSS in verse. You seem to be conflating One Piece the story, which we analyse and Oda who exists outside the world of One Piece. Our job as readers is to make judgements based on what is shown in the manga. Anytime you go to these Yahweh arguments, all you are doing is conflating the two.



Do you believe Sanji will find All blue ?
Do you for honest believe Oda will make Sanji find a fake all blue ? Do you believe Oda will make Robin find a fake poneglyph ? Do you really believe luffy being PK will just be world perception???

It doesn't matter if WSS is or not world perception,  Zoro is not aiming for world perception only , he want TO BE WSS , as a FACT. Not as perception. If there are stronger swordmen than whoever face Zoro in EoS then zoro will not deserve his title. It is as simple as that.

This is one piece you know ? Every strawhats will fullfil his dream. Not some world perception garbage.



Seraphoenix said:


> Zoro is a side character. Shanks not appearing in every volume is irrelevant as he is the MC's goal. There is only one MC and that is Luffy.




Pick one :

-Finding one piece and becoming the next PK
-Giving shanks his hat and surpassing him.
One is more important here than the other. I let you guess witch one.

(Oh before you say one imply the other and Vice/versa , Shanks is not final vilain , and whoever Will be final vilain will be > him)


Seraphoenix said:


> Your attempts to downplay Shanks are hilarious. I just showed you that after 20 years, when celebrating his work, Oda didn't draw all these 'main characters', he drew Shanks and Luffy.


Shanks is an important char since he gave luffy his dream.

The story doesn't focus him. , that's another case. It focus on luffy *and his nakama.* Arguing against it is arguing against the story we have seen so far.

Shanks could litteraly die before luffy meets him and luffy would just put the hat on his grave,  defeat teach and become PK.

How many time have oda drawn the SH in important event celebatring one piece? In Cover pages ? Volume page ?

You really wanna use this argument?? 



Seraphoenix said:


> Don't be mad that Zoro is just the main character's underling. It isn't that serious. At the end of the day it's the Luffy show.



Will sanji find a fake all blue , Yes or no ?

It is that serious. 25 years of writting a character for him to realise a fake dream ? Not even the worse story teller of all time would do that. And I'm sure you know it well.


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## Akira1993 (Apr 26, 2020)

Who has more plot relevance? Obviously Shanks.
Who will go down first in the story? Mihawk
Who wins in a duel ? Unknown, probably equals

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheOmega (Apr 26, 2020)

Gledinos said:


> Do you believe Sanji will find All blue ?
> Do you for honest believe Oda will make Sanji find a fake all blue ? Do you believe Oda will make Robin find a fake poneglyph ? Do you really believe luffy being PK will just be world perception???
> 
> It doesn't matter if WSS is or not world perception,  Zoro is not aiming for world perception only , he want TO BE WSS , as a FACT. Not as perception. If there are stronger swordmen than whoever face Zoro in EoS then zoro will not deserve his title. It is as simple as that.
> ...




Actually it is quite possible that ALL the Strawhats FAIL at their originally "stated" goals/ambitions and end up surpassing their original dreams by sacrificing them.

Shanks may die prematurely so no returning the hat,
Mihawk might die prematurely so so deathmatch,
Laboon might die,
All blue might by in the reverse mountain or might be the "blow up redline to make onepiece" theory
Thousand sunny might get destroyed and remodded as pluton etc etc

Nothing is for certain. Ever.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Apr 29, 2020)

Akira1993 said:


> Who has more plot relevance? Obviously Shanks.
> Who will go down first in the story? Mihawk
> Who wins in a duel ? Unknown, probably equals




What makes you think Mihawk will go down first? 

Not many people see that way.


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## Gledania (Apr 29, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> What makes you think Mihawk will go down first?
> 
> Not many people see that way.


How and when will Mihawk go down for you ?


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## Beast (Apr 29, 2020)

Gledinos said:


> How and when will Mihawk go down for you ?


IF Mihawk is going down, he will go down with Shanks and his crew against BB.
Or against Fuji, and zoro fights Fuji EoS war.

More then anything I don’t see Mihawk going down though.


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## Gledania (Apr 29, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> IF Mihawk is going down, he will go down with Shanks and his crew against BB.
> Or against Fuji, and zoro fights Fuji EoS war.
> 
> More then anything I don’t see Mihawk going down though.


Option 1 is nah. I don't see mihawk joining shanks.

Shanks will not involve someone in a fight that doesn't concern him (war against BB). And I hardly imagine Mihawk allying with Shanks (it would sounds like him joining shanks crew , cause honestly , Mihawk is all alone by himself).

I think when the occasion will come , Mihawk will join the alliance when they'll attack the WG. (countries , Revs , luffy ,ect ) and Go down facing a top tier then.


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## Beast (Apr 29, 2020)

Gledinos said:


> Option 1 is nah. I don't see mihawk joining shanks.
> 
> Shanks will not involve someone in a fight that doesn't concern him (war against BB). And I hardly imagine Mihawk allying with Shanks (it would sounds like him joining shanks crew , cause honestly , Mihawk is all alone by himself).
> 
> I think when the occasion will come , Mihawk will join the alliance when they'll attack the WG. (countries , Revs , luffy ,ect ) and Go down facing a top tier then.


It’s not a nah, because you don’t write OP. I’m sure mihawks and shanks relationship is a lot more then just rivalry. 

Why not? Shanks is always seen getting involved in things he shouldn’t, stopping BB might take more then he has got, and he would call Mihawk who is now, open target not being shichibukai. Killing two birds with one stone... well it’s destined to fail but close enough. 

That’s shit asf, I rather Mihawk die a dogs death then bend his back for the alliance. If he is gonna bend the knee to someone it should only be his rival.


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## Gledania (Apr 29, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> That’s shit asf, I rather Mihawk die a dogs death then bend his back for the alliance. If he is gonna bend the knee to someone it should only be his rival.


He's not bending the knee if he join an alliance involving multiples parties 
He don't even need to follow orders. Just attack the WG when everyone attack them.


MasterBeast said:


> It’s not a nah, because you don’t write OP. I’m sure mihawks and shanks relationship is a lot more then just rivalry.


Perhaps but the rivalry mindset still work. You wouldn't hide on your rival crew.


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## Red Admiral (Apr 29, 2020)

this threads gonna be fun after Mihawk join Shanks ...


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## Ludi (Apr 29, 2020)

Who has more plot relevance?
Who will go down first in the story?
Who wins in a duel ?
Shanks
Shanks
Extreme diff either way


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## Beast (Apr 29, 2020)

Gledinos said:


> He's not bending the knee if he join an alliance involving multiples parties
> He don't even need to follow orders. Just attack the WG when everyone attack them.
> 
> Perhaps but the rivalry mindset still work. You wouldn't hide on your rival crew.


An alliance with luffy is different from forming an alliance with Shanks as a partner.


The rivalry is dead with the loss of Shanks arm, so they should be good drinking friends.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Gledania (Apr 29, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> An alliance with luffy is different from forming an alliance with Shanks as a partner.


They are not partners.



MasterBeast said:


> The rivalry is dead with the loss of Shanks arm, so they should be good drinking friends


You think Zoro would still join Sanji crew if Sanji had to lose an leg ?


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## Beast (Apr 29, 2020)

Gledinos said:


> They are not partners.
> 
> 
> You think Zoro would still join Sanji crew if Sanji had to lose an leg ?


They could be, but with Luffy, there is no alliance. You must bend to messiah or outright reject him like Kidd. 

Nah, it’s more like Zoro would be willing to join up with Law in the future because Koby is hunting him down.


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## Gledania (Apr 29, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> They could be, but with Luffy, there is no alliance. You must bend to messiah or outright reject him like Kidd.
> 
> Nah, it’s more like Zoro would be willing to join up with Law in the future because Koby is hunting him down.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 29, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> this threads gonna be fun after Mihawk join Shanks ...



If by join you mean Mihawk coming to save Shanks ass from Black beard. I don't see the issue.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Beast (Apr 29, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> If by join you mean Mihawk coming to save Shanks ass from Black beard. I don't see the issue.


And then get stopped by Shiryuu instead

Reactions: Like 2


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 29, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> And then get stopped by Shiryuu instead



Fodder Shiryu lost what tiny speck of credibility he might of had when he ate that shitty invisible devil fruit 

Go ahead shiryuu and try to be sneaky against someone called Hawk Eyes.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Apr 29, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> If by join you mean Mihawk coming to save Shanks ass from Black beard. I don't see the issue.



don't get all defensive mate
Mihawk need Shanks ... in order to have a story arc ...

p.s

if Shanks were to die ... no one can save him
if Shanks were to be alive ... he don't need help


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 29, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> don't get all defensive mate
> Mihawk need Shanks ... in order to have a story arc ...
> 
> p.s
> ...



Mihawk doesn't need a story arc.


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## Akira1993 (Apr 29, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> What makes you think Mihawk will go down first?
> 
> Not many people see that way.


You are right but now that he is a living target of the World Government and he doesn't have a crew.


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## Fel1x (Apr 29, 2020)

Shryuu will be undetectable. CoO, adnvanced CoO, future sight, whatever

why even add this DF for EoS material character to be nothing in reality? all BB's crew member's fruits will work against top tiers


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## Turrin (Apr 30, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> And then get stopped by Shiryuu instead


Shiryuu isn’t going to be an enemy for M3; he is an enemy for the Middle Trio. 

Teach is currently looking to recruit more powerful individuals to his crew; like the Warlords. These new recruits (and maybe his 10th captain) will be the enemies for the M3, not impel down group. 

Teach is going to have 14-15 crew by the end; and same with SH. Most likely Mihawk will Join teach to face Zoro


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## Turrin (Apr 30, 2020)

@MasterBeast

You can rate my post optimistic but why the heck would Oda give Zoro final enemy a DF power that Sanji beat back in Thriller Bark. Makes far more sense that he’s going to fight Brook, who is tied to TB.


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## Mob (Apr 30, 2020)

Shillew is looking for Jozu and invisibility fruit will make that task a loot easier, WB remnants are aware of BB fruit collection hobby and they would flee on sight if they found out BB first mate is looking for one of their core members... BB can remove df fruits without killing  the user and we will see that once Shilew busts diamond form against Mihawk in Shanks vs BB war


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## Dunno (Apr 30, 2020)

Anyone betting on Zoro vs Shilliew is going to end up disappointed. I've been saying it for 8 years now, and it just keeps becoming more and more true; Zoro is fighting Lafitte. The man even has the exact same title as Sabo does in the RA, and he's been confirmed to be their second-in-command.


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## Turrin (Apr 30, 2020)

Dunno said:


> Anyone betting on Zoro vs Shilliew is going to end up disappointed. I've been saying it for 8 years now, and it just keeps becoming more and more true; Zoro is fighting Lafitte. The man even has the exact same title as Sabo does in the RA, and he's been confirmed to be their second-in-command.


Lafitte is the navigator; he is fighting Nami,

Teach’s first few recruits are fighting the weaklings 

Van Auger fights Ussop
Doc Q / Stronger fights Chopper 
Lafitte fights Nami 
Burgess fights new Straw Hat Weak Trio

Battleship San Juan Wolf fights Franky
Katrina fights Robin
Shilew Fights Brook
Shot Fights New Straw Hat
Pizarro Fights New Straw Hat

Teach will recruit 3~5 New Members by EoS to fight Jinbei, Zoro, Sanji, and Possibly 1-2 More SHs. 

Likely one of these being Mihawk to fight Zoro.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dunno (Apr 30, 2020)

Turrin said:


> Lafitte is the navigator; he is fighting Nami,
> 
> Teach’s first few recruits are fighting the weaklings
> 
> ...


Lafitte is also the chief of staff, a swordsman and the only one of the original crew who hasn't jobbed against anyone Blackbeard himself hasn't jobbed against.


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## Turrin (Apr 30, 2020)

Dunno said:


> Lafitte is also the chief of staff, a swordsman and the only one of the original crew who hasn't jobbed against anyone Blackbeard himself hasn't jobbed against.


He’s a navigator who is part of the weakling gang of Doc Q, Auger, and Burgess; with the later two obviously being set up to fight the other weakling memebers (Ussop and Chopper); and Burgess obviously being one of the weaker members too given how Base-Sabo no-diff rapes him in DR.

He’s also clearly a magician, which is exactly like Nami who is a wizard with the Climatic (she even studied with the Wizards looking dudes of Weatheria); so they are the same class

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dunno (Apr 30, 2020)

Turrin said:


> He’s a navigator who is part of the weakling gang of Doc Q, Auger, and Burgess; with the later two obviously being set up to fight the other weakling memebers (Ussop and Chopper); and Burgess obviously being one of the weaker members too given how Base-Sabo no-diff rapes him in DR.
> 
> He’s also clearly a magician, which is exactly like Nami who is a wizard with the Climatic (she even studied with the Wizards looking dudes of Weatheria); so they are the same class


He's never been paired with Doc Q and Burgess. When Blackbeard said that Burgess and Van Auger were too weak to fight Ace, Lafitte wasn't even there. When Burgess and Doc Q got hit by Ace's fire, Lafitte wasn't hit. When the others were sweating trying to get away from the destruction of the BB vs Ace fight, Lafitte was casually strolling along. He's also the chief of staff of the Blackbeard Pirates, which is the same title Sabo has amongst the Revos. 

Lafitte being the Nami equivalent on the BB Pirates is about as likely as Law being the Chopper equivalent of the Heart Pirates or the Wanze was the Sanji equivalent on the CP9.


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## Turrin (Apr 30, 2020)

Dunno said:


> He's never been paired with Doc Q and Burgess. When Blackbeard said that Burgess and Van Auger were too weak to fight Ace, Lafitte wasn't even there. When Burgess and Doc Q got hit by Ace's fire, Lafitte wasn't hit. When the others were sweating trying to get away from the destruction of the BB vs Ace fight, Lafitte was casually strolling along. He's also the chief of staff of the Blackbeard Pirates, which is the same title Sabo has amongst the Revos.
> 
> Lafitte being the Nami equivalent on the BB Pirates is about as likely as Law being the Chopper equivalent of the Heart Pirates or the Wanze was the Sanji equivalent on the CP9.


He is paired with those 3; as they were the first 4 members of his crew. As oppose to the Impel down escapees which is another group

Dude they are literally navigator wizards paired with the weaklings of their crew lol; how can you with a straight face say they are only as comparable as Law being the Chopper of the hearts Pirates; if your not going to even be honest there isn’t a point in discussion anything on the board


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## TheOmega (May 1, 2020)

Wait.. so people STILL don't think Mihawk is a member of Shanks' crew?


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## Dunno (May 1, 2020)

Turrin said:


> He is paired with those 3; as they were the first 4 members of his crew. As oppose to the Impel down escapees which is another group
> 
> Dude they are literally navigator wizards paired with the weaklings of their crew lol; how can you with a straight face say they are only as comparable as Law being the Chopper of the hearts Pirates; if your not going to even be honest there isn’t a point in discussion anything on the board


And the first four of the SH crew were Luffy, Zoro, Usopp and Nami. Two weakling trio members, the captain and the first mate. This is even more support for Lafitte being the first mate, if we're talking SH parallels. 

What I'm saying is that the chances that Lafitte is going to end up in the weakling trio are about the same as for Law, which I honestly believe is true.


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## Turrin (May 1, 2020)

Dunno said:


> And the first four of the SH crew were Luffy, Zoro, Usopp and Nami. Two weakling trio members, the captain and the first mate. This is even more support for Lafitte being the first mate, if we're talking SH parallels.
> 
> What I'm saying is that the chances that Lafitte is going to end up in the weakling trio are about the same as for Law, which I honestly believe is true.


We aren’t talking about the SH crew so that’s irrelevant. Teach’s crew has a clear progression of him recruiting stronger members as time goes on.

Look man I’m very convinced Laffite is not fighting Zoro; and even I can say that Laffite fighting Zoro has better odds then Law being equivalent to Chopper or something like that. It’s being pretty intellectually dishonest to say Laffite fighting Nami with both being the navigator alone isn’t more likely then that



TheOmega said:


> Wait.. so people STILL don't think Mihawk is a member of Shanks' crew?


I don’t think this at all


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## Quipchaque (May 1, 2020)

1.Shanks probably? Depends how you define plot relevance.

2.Mihawk

3.Shanks or stalemate.


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## Dunno (May 1, 2020)

Turrin said:


> We aren’t talking about the SH crew so that’s irrelevant. Teach’s crew has a clear progression of him recruiting stronger members as time goes on.
> 
> Look man I’m very convinced Laffite is not fighting Zoro; and even I can say that Laffite fighting Zoro has better odds then Law being equivalent to Chopper or something like that. It’s being pretty intellectually dishonest to say Laffite fighting Nami with both being the navigator alone isn’t more likely then that


About the same does not mean the exact same. You have to pay attention to the details before accusing me of intellectual dishonesty. LEt me explain. I would say that the probability that Lafitte fights Nami is between 0 and 0,1%, and that the chances of Law ending up in the weakling trio of the Heart Pirates is between 0 and 0,0001%. Both scenarios are extremely unlikely, which is why the likelyhood of them happening are about the same.


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## Turrin (May 1, 2020)

Dunno said:


> About the same does not mean the exact same. You have to pay attention to the details before accusing me of intellectual dishonesty. LEt me explain. I would say that the probability that Lafitte fights Nami is between 0 and 0,1%, and that the chances of Law ending up in the weakling trio of the Heart Pirates is between 0 and 0,0001%. Both scenarios are extremely unlikely, which is why the likelyhood of them happening are about the same.


Yeah that’s still ridiculous dude; the fact that they are both the navigator wizards of their crews alone should make it more of a chance then that. Even I would give a 10% chance to Lafitte fighting Zoro


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## Dunno (May 1, 2020)

Turrin said:


> Yeah that’s still ridiculous dude; the fact that they are both the navigator wizards of their crews alone should make it more of a chance then that. Even I would give a 10% chance to Lafitte fighting Zoro


How about we put our avatars where our mouth are? I would bet 100 days of using an avatar of your choice against 2,4 hours of you using one of mine that Lafitte does not end up fighting Nami.


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## Turrin (May 1, 2020)

Dunno said:


> How about put our avatars where our mouth are? I would bet 100 days of using an avatar of your choice against 2,4 hours of you using one of mine that Lafitte does not end up fighting Nami.


I would do this if it wasn’t like 10 Years from now that this bet would be settled


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## Fel1x (May 1, 2020)

to end this debate I will update you with leaked images of Shanks and Mihawk future encounter


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## TheOmega (May 1, 2020)

Fel1x said:


> to end this debate I will update you with leaked images of Shanks and Mihawk future encounter




That gangstaness.

There's a lotta shows of power and flexes but this shit is top 5 for smoothest flex.

Son is smilin gets threatened and has his man pop out the cut clappin while eatin a bigass piece of meat  all in the blink of an eye with full casualness

Reactions: Like 1


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## zenit1234 (May 1, 2020)

Mihawk high-extreme diff

Reactions: Like 2


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## TheWiggian (May 1, 2020)

>


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## TheOmega (May 1, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> >



Never in ya life lmao


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## zenit1234 (May 1, 2020)

TheOmega said:


> Never in ya life lmao


he spitting facts
even oda agrees
the most powerful swordsman in the world>the snitch

Reactions: Like 2


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## OG sama (May 1, 2020)

The dreaded Mihawk Vs Shanks debate the debate that will go on for eternity even after this manga is over....

Yeah imma see my way out...


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## Flame (May 2, 2020)

OG sama said:


> The dreaded Mihawk Vs Shanks debate the debate that will go on for eternity even after this manga is over....
> 
> Yeah imma see my way out...


mans just joined 3 days ago and already had enough


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## Shiba D. Inu (May 2, 2020)

Shiryuu is garbage and just CoO training

Im sorry Shiryuu fans


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## zenit1234 (May 2, 2020)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> WSS > not WSS
> /thread
> 
> 2-armed Snitch at best tied with Hawk, how can 1-armed ginger even compete


if they fight again


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## TheOmega (May 2, 2020)

It amazes me how much you enjoy shitposting lol



Shiba D. Inu said:


> WSS > not WSS
> /thread
> 
> 2-armed Snitch at best tied with Hawk, how can 1-armed ginger even compete





zenit1234 said:


> if they fight again



If he can get past Yassop or Beckman or Lucky or whatever Vista/Jozu level is gonna stop him lol


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## zenit1234 (May 2, 2020)

TheOmega said:


> It amazes me how much you enjoy shitposting lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Vista=Mihawk>Akagami no Snitch


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## Beast (May 2, 2020)

zenit1234 said:


> Vista=Mihawk>Akagami no Snitch


Ben> Lucky>Yassop=Vista tho

Reactions: Like 2


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## Fel1x (May 2, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Ben> Lucky>Yassop=Vista tho


so if Mihawk joins Shanks he will fight for YC3 position?


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## zenit1234 (May 2, 2020)

Fel1x said:


> so if Mihawk joins Shanks he will fight for YC3 position?


if mihawk joins he s the new capitan


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## zenit1234 (May 2, 2020)

@Fel1x from red hair pirates to hawk eyes pirates

Reactions: Like 4


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## Fel1x (May 2, 2020)

zenit1234 said:


> @Fel1x from red hair pirates to hawk eyes pirates


fan fiction... I already posted in this thread leaked panels from future chapter. Sad, but Mihawk gonna die soon. Roo is already stronger than him, Shanks is miles away


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## TheOmega (May 2, 2020)

Mihawk is ALREADY a member of the RHP but if he wasn't he'd have to fight Buggy and Rockstar for their spots lmao

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (May 2, 2020)

Fel1x said:


> so if Mihawk joins Shanks he will fight for YC3 position?


Nah, mihawks got potential.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Skaddix (May 2, 2020)

I mean if they just fight with swords and nothing else Mihawk...if they use everything they got then Shanks.


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## zenit1234 (May 2, 2020)

Fel1x said:


> fan fiction... I already posted in this thread leaked panels from future chapter. Sad, but Mihawk gonna die soon. Roo is already stronger than him, Shanks is miles away


 Fake leaks
Mihawk doesn t die 

Shanks might get off screened by this beast


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## Fel1x (May 2, 2020)

zenit1234 said:


> Fake leaks
> Mihawk doesn t die
> 
> Shanks might get off screened by this beast


well, too funny to even be mad about it. Shanks vs Sea king is classic


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## TheOmega (May 3, 2020)

Skaddix said:


> I mean if they just fight with swords and nothing else Mihawk...if they use everything they got then Shanks.



THIS!

I don't know why this is so hard for people to comprehend


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## GrizzlyClaws (May 3, 2020)

Nah fam you slippin', Shanks had the mighty beast trembling. He can be glad Shanks didn't unwrap his massive CoC on the Lord.


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## zenit1234 (May 3, 2020)

TheOmega said:


> THIS!
> 
> I don't know why this is so hard for people to comprehend


All shankstardo has is his swordsmanship 
And Mihoku is stronger than him


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## Mob (May 3, 2020)

First haki lesson is free


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## zenit1234 (May 3, 2020)

Mob said:


> First haki lesson is free


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## Shiba D. Inu (May 3, 2020)

Mob said:


> First haki lesson is free

Reactions: Like 4


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## Hardcore (May 3, 2020)

cause you know better and can prove for sure what happened


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## Shiba D. Inu (May 3, 2020)

Hardcore said:


> cause you know better and can prove for sure what happened



go back


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## zenit1234 (May 3, 2020)

even tough shanks fights with a sword from young age some think he s not a swordsman


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## Shiba D. Inu (May 3, 2020)

red boys do know that Mihawk has better haki too, right ? 

'Hawk eyes' + "Clairvoyant' = better CoO .. Shanks didnt even detect a fish and couldnt dodge BBs claw slash at his eye
black blade = better CoA

all Shanks has is Coc

Reactions: Like 2


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## zenit1234 (May 3, 2020)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> red boys do know that Mihawk has better haki too, right ?
> 
> 'Hawk eyes' + "Clairvoyant' = better CoO .. Shanks didnt even detect a fish and couldnt dodge BBs claw slash at his eye
> black blade = better CoA
> ...


Wood breaker Akagami No Snitch ain t beating Godhawk


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## Ruse (May 3, 2020)

I don’t usually get involved in these debates but.. for you guys saying Shanks has something else, what do you mean?

Don’t say haki since we know that’s an important part of swordsmanship given that Mihawk/Zoro flashback we got in Dressrosa


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## Shiba D. Inu (May 3, 2020)

Ruse said:


> I don’t usually get involved in these debates but.. for you guys saying Shanks has something else, what do you mean?
> 
> Don’t say haki since we know that’s an important part of swordsmanship given that Mihawk/Zoro flashback we got in Dressrosa


Shanks warps reality with his advanced CoC


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## Dunno (May 3, 2020)

Ruse said:


> I don’t usually get involved in these debates but.. for you guys saying Shanks has something else, what do you mean?
> 
> Don’t say haki since we know that’s an important part of swordsmanship given that Mihawk/Zoro flashback we got in Dressrosa


As I've understood it, he's supposed to be able to go Dragonball with his CoC.


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## Hardcore (May 3, 2020)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> red boys do know that Mihawk has better haki too, right ?
> 
> 'Hawk eyes' + "Clairvoyant' = better CoO .. Shanks didnt even detect a fish and couldnt dodge BBs claw slash at his eye
> black blade = better CoA
> ...



using pis against shanks

when mihawk got 'serious' against pre-skip luffy and could not land a hit after two tries


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## zenit1234 (May 3, 2020)

Hardcore said:


> using pis against shanks
> 
> when mihawk got 'serious' against pre-skip luffy and could not land a hit after two tries


with eyes closed


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## Shiba D. Inu (May 3, 2020)

> using luffy as evidence

that bitch has more plot armor than Fairy Tail


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## Hardcore (May 3, 2020)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> > using luffy as evidence
> 
> that bitch has more plot armor than Fairy Tail



kaido one-shot luffy in one try

and guess what title shanks and kaido have in common


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## Shiba D. Inu (May 3, 2020)

Hardcore said:


> kaido one-shot luffy in one try


didnt even leave a scar
and he walked it off in a few hours
just plot device for prison training


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## zenit1234 (May 3, 2020)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> didnt even leave a scar
> and he walked it off in a few hours
> just plot device for prison training


Smh Big Meme got amnesia and freed luffy from prison


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## Mob (May 3, 2020)

Dunno said:


> As I've understood it, he's supposed to be able to go Dragonball with his CoC.




just wait till he gets serious against BB and he starts blowing islands up with haKI blasts


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## Dunno (May 3, 2020)

Mob said:


> just wait till he gets serious against BB and he starts blowing islands up with haKI blasts


I'll wait, and probably for a really long time.


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## zenit1234 (May 3, 2020)

Shanks isn t a swordsman

*Spoiler*: __ 











Then why everytime he fights he goes for his sword and not his hidden op ability

Reactions: Like 1


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## Hardcore (May 3, 2020)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> didnt even leave a scar
> and he walked it off in a few hours
> just plot device for prison training



we will see

all i know is that the WG did not think twice about trolling mihawk


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## Shiba D. Inu (May 3, 2020)

Hardcore said:


> we will see
> 
> all i know is that the WG did not think twice about trolling mihawk


WG is equal to at least 4 yonkou crews combined 

and thats without whatever powers Imu has hidden


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## Hardcore (May 3, 2020)

zenit1234 said:


> Shanks isn t a swordsman
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



who the fuck saying shanks is not a swordsman?


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## zenit1234 (May 3, 2020)

Hardcore said:


> who the fuck saying shanks is not a swordsman?


is mihawk stronger than shanks?


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## Extravlad (May 3, 2020)

zenit1234 said:


> is mihawk stronger than shanks?


Of course he is. 
"Mihawk awaits for the man who will surpass his rival Red-haired"
EoS Zoro > Mihawk > Shanks

Reactions: Like 1


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## zenit1234 (May 3, 2020)

Hardcore said:


> we will see
> 
> all i know is that the WG did not think twice about trolling mihawk



mihawk doesnt care


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## Hardcore (May 3, 2020)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> WG is equal to at least 4 yonkou crews combined
> 
> and thats without whatever powers Imu has hidden



and you know that because?

cause what i remember they wet their pants whenever two yonkou unite





zenit1234 said:


> mihawk doesnt care



he cared enough to follow orders and agree to fight WB 



zenit1234 said:


> is mihawk stronger than shanks?



i don't know

and neither do you


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## zenit1234 (May 3, 2020)

Hardcore said:


> i don't know
> 
> and neither do you


I know 
The Strongest Swordsman In The World Dracule Mihoku>Shanks the Swordsman

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ekkologix (May 4, 2020)

i'm amazed how mihawk vs shanks or admiral vs yonko threads always manages to hit 20 pages


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## TheOmega (May 4, 2020)

Imma laugh when this turns out to be EXACTLY how it happened lmao.

You think the guy who let a bumass bandit crack him with a wine bottle and laughed it off and gave up his arm on a whim is unfamiliar with the concept of restraint?  boy do you guys have a lot to learn about Shonen manga lmao


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## Beast (May 4, 2020)

zenit1234 said:


> Shanks isn t a swordsman
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...


Well, that’s the point ... it’s a hidden ability.


Oda is hiding faces of characters that don’t even matter and you think he will show everything Shanks the most important man in the series can do?


Mark my words, currently... only Dragon could potentially be above Shanks.


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## zenit1234 (May 4, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Well, that’s the point ... it’s a hidden ability.
> 
> 
> Oda is hiding faces of characters that don’t even matter and you think he will show everything Shanks the most important man in the series can do?
> ...


Weakest yonko Akagami no Snitch
Mihoku>the snitch
Shanksu overrated

Reactions: Like 2


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## Beast (May 4, 2020)

zenit1234 said:


> Weakest yonko Akagami no Snitch
> Mihoku>the snitch
> Shanksu overrated


Shanks sent Kaidou packing home. 

Shanks is the strongest yonko.

BB needs to beat Shanks for us all to accept that he is finally PK level.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mob (May 4, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Shanks sent Kaidou packing home.
> 
> Shanks is the strongest yonko.
> 
> BB needs to beat Shanks for us all to accept that he is finally PK level.


this after Shanks fight, BB is surpassing prime Roger/WB  level


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## Beast (May 4, 2020)

Mob said:


> this after Shanks fight, BB is surpassing prime Roger/WB  level


Of course Shanks is basically already PK tier with being the man closest to PK as WB was Pre TS, so it only make sense. 

2+2 is 4 after all.


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## zenit1234 (May 4, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Of course Shanks is basically already PK tier


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## Shiba D. Inu (May 4, 2020)

> Shanks is basically already PK tier


MB is truly lost to us 

this level of wank was unseen since erkan days


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## Beast (May 4, 2020)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> MB is truly lost to us
> 
> this level of wank was unseen since erkan days


Pre TS- WB is the man closest to the OP. 

Post TS- Shanks is the freest man in the seas and the closest to the OP.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Shiba D. Inu (May 4, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Pre TS- WB is the man closest to the OP.
> Post TS- Shanks is the freest man in the seas and the closest to the OP.


1. this has nothing to do with Power Levels _whatsoever_
2. Old WB (who _isnt even PK-tier_, only Primebeard is) ~high-diffs Shanks

also a "freeest man on the seas" doesnt come snitching to Gorosei


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## zenit1234 (May 4, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Post TS- Shanks is the freest man in the seas and the closest to the OP.



Shanksu is a loser he couldn t make it to Laugh Tale  and luffy doesn t even consider him the freest man in the seas

Reactions: Like 3


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## Dunno (May 4, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Shanks sent Kaidou packing home.
> 
> *Shanks is the strongest yonko.*
> 
> BB needs to beat Shanks for us all to accept that he is finally PK level.


He doesn't have much competition to be honest.


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## Shiba D. Inu (May 4, 2020)

strongest yonkou = average admiral level

Reactions: Like 3


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## Ekkologix (May 4, 2020)

too bad shanks is using sword as weapon of choice unlike Kaido and WB which are smarter and didn't want to fall under the sword domain 

Shanks and BM just doomed their fates as Yonkou vs Mihawk

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (May 4, 2020)

Go D. Usopp said:


> too bad shanks is using sword as weapon of choice unlike Kaido and WB which are smarter and didn't want to fall under the sword domain
> 
> Shanks and BM just doomed their fates as Yonkou vs Mihawk


first rule of One Piece

dont pick up a sword
or be prepared to be under Mihawks (EoS Zoros) heel

Reactions: Like 3


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## Mob (May 4, 2020)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> first rule of One Piece
> 
> dont pick up a sword
> or be prepared to be under Mihawks (EoS Zoros) heel


Roger and WB would like to have a word


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## Shiba D. Inu (May 4, 2020)

Mob said:


> Roger and WB would like to have a word


Roger was lucky he died before Mihawk reached prime 

WB is a bisentoman/quakeman

Reactions: Like 2


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## Flame (May 4, 2020)

i love how shanks fans talk shit about mihawk's vivre card stating he's in fact the strongest swordsman but are fine when it fits their narrative of shanks being the closest to the throne

Reactions: Like 2


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## Shiba D. Inu (May 4, 2020)

Flame said:


> i love how shanks fans talk shit about mihawk's vivre card stating he's in fact the strongest swordsman but are fine when it fits their narrative of shanks being the closest to the throne


duplicity is to be expected of fans of a snitch

Reactions: Like 3


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## Hardcore (May 4, 2020)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> strongest yonkou = average admiral level



get some sleep dude


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## TheOmega (May 5, 2020)

We all know Shanks got Dat Top Tier CoC. All we gotta do is wait


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## zenit1234 (May 5, 2020)

TheOmega said:


> We all know Shanks got Dat Top Tier CoC. All we gotta do is wait


Dat Top Tier CoC that breaks wood can t wait 
Wood Breaker Akagami no Shanksu

Reactions: Like 2


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## Beast (May 5, 2020)

zenit1234 said:


> Dat Top Tier CoC that breaks wood can t wait
> Wood Breaker Akagami no Shanksu


That’s the mere tip of it all, BH wasn’t even painted black pre TS


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## Skaddix (May 5, 2020)

I do love all the snitch jokes...cause its true Shanks is a dirty snitch.


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## Red Admiral (May 6, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Mihawk doesn't need a story arc.



he better .... unless he is worthless


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## zenit1234 (May 6, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> he better .... unless he is worthless


Still stronger than shanks

Reactions: Like 2


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## Red Admiral (May 6, 2020)

zenit1234 said:


> Still stronger than shanks



since people as strong as plot need them to be

Mihawk with a low level plot around him ... might end up as weakest top tiers ....


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## Gledania (May 6, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> since people as strong as plot need them to be
> 
> Mihawk with a low level plot around him ... might end up as weakest top tiers ....


How strong Shanks need to be in a plot stand point ? 
He have to be defeated by Teach , and he will not fight against luffy.
His strength is irrelevant here if we go by "plot" standart.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Red Admiral (May 6, 2020)

Gledinos said:


> He have to be defeated by Teach , and he will not fight against luffy.
> His strength is irrelevant here if we go by "plot" standart.



we are talking about Oda plot not your fan fiction

stand equal to Teach ... can give Shanks +PK level power even if he lose ... so don't jump in to the idea you saw Shanks's story arc


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## Gledania (May 6, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> stand equal to Teach ... can give Shanks +PK level power ... so don't jump in to the idea you saw Shanks's story arc



Shanks will not stand equal to teach. By EoS Teach will be stronger than him , cause he need to be defeated by luffy.
Not by Shanks.
Teach > Shanks. So how strong shanks will be is irrelevant.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (May 6, 2020)

Gledinos said:


> Shanks will not stand equal to teach. By EoS Teach will be stronger than him , cause he need to be defeated by luffy.
> Not by Shanks.
> Teach > Shanks. So how strong shanks will be is irrelevant.



again here is the thing ... you assume the only job Shanks have for the plot is to fight Teach and lose

who said that?

your head canon?

there are 100 ways for Oda to show us a Shanks Vs Teach ... and 99 of them are better than the RHP alone fight BBP and Shanks lose

and it don't even make sense for plot in terms of power level

BBP would be close to gone after fighting RHP ... so they facing Luffy after words is just pointless

and if you think BBP can beat RHP with no great damage ... then they are gods above god and Luffy should not win ...

for some one like Oda who hate being predictable doing a plot as cheap as this for a character hyped for +22 years like Shanks

is fucking stupid

so stop assuming the most hyped and hidden story arc in one piece is a fucked up cheap way

your head canon is wrong base on plot , Oda mind , hype , power level and every other thing

*just like when people act  Rain killed Jozu so he can beat Mihawk to be become final enemy to Zoro

and they fucking assumed this is fact! and oda would never do otherwise *

just pure shit ... oda shit on them HARD ... and will shit on this HARDER


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## Gledania (May 6, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> again here is the thing ... you assume the only job Shanks have for the plot is to fight Teach and lose
> 
> who said that?


He's not fighting the main char , he help him to be the next PK.



Red Admiral said:


> your head canon?


Common sens.


Red Admiral said:


> BBP would be close to gone after fighting RHP ... so they facing Luffy after words is just pointless


???? what are you on about ?



Red Admiral said:


> for some one like Oda who hate being predictable doing a plot as cheap as this for a character hyped for +22 years like Shanks


Red hair vs BBP will happen. Teach wounded him , Shanks have a grief against him , both faced each other at MF and Teach decide to post pone.
What do you want more ?


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## Red Admiral (May 6, 2020)

Gledinos said:


> He's not fighting the main char , he help him to be the next PK.
> 
> 
> Common sens.
> ...


 
- Garp , Xebec , Roger and Whitebeard don't fight MC ... so they should be weak?

or strongest people?


and by the way the *guardian of main character can be stronger than final villain* the same way Dumbledore was stronger than Voldemort

and MANY OTHERS Infj type that were in fact even above FV ...

and Shanks is in this type
+

- don't call you weak head canon " Common sens"
you can't know shit about details

you are not Oda ... 
+

- Luffy beat a fucked up BBP ... wow ... what a hype

+

-Red hair vs BBP will happen ... but not in the stupid way you assume ... don't assume you are Oda or you can see plot with details


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## A Optimistic (May 6, 2020)

Sherlōck said:


> Who will go down first in the story?



Shanks.

He's getting off-paneled by Blackbeard when this arc ends.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Beast (May 6, 2020)

Gledinos said:


> How strong Shanks need to be in a plot stand point ?
> He have to be defeated by Teach , and he will not fight against luffy.
> His strength is irrelevant here if we go by "plot" standart.


That’s some stupid logic. 
Shanks needs to PK or close enough to have BB reach that level.


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## TheWiggian (May 6, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> That’s some stupid logic.
> Shanks needs to PK or close enough to have BB reach that level.



It's not about Shanks pushing BB to PK but for BB to break that Yonkou deadlock, which will happen anyway with Kaido and Meme going down.

Shanks strength will be determined by 2 paths imo:

1. He will be very close to PK in which case BB will truly be pushed to extreme and faces Luffy where both surpass PK Roger and his 2 equals, Prime WB and Garp.

2. He just faces off against BB and loses, BB remains the only Yonkou at this time and basically the best candidate for PK fighting Luffy for it. Luffy defeats him and moves on to war against the World Government which ends up with Luffy revealing the truth of the void century, freeing the world of the oppression and the ruler of the planet, making him the man with the most freedom.

Whatever ending you believe in, Shanks most likely ends up stronger than Kaido and Meme but weaker than the PK regardless.


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## Skaddix (May 6, 2020)

I mean I don't think so...Luffy is not exactly liable to fight Shanks ever so his power doesn't matter. Well actually no fuck it Shanks is a dirty snitch he probably goes get on the WG payroll and stand in front of Luffy at the end. like the damn traitor he is.


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## TheOmega (Sep 17, 2020)

Shanks is probably gonna Luffy and win but die before rhe rematch


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## Quipchaque (Sep 18, 2020)

Skaddix said:


> I mean I don't think so...Luffy is not exactly liable to fight Shanks ever so his power doesn't matter. Well actually no fuck it Shanks is a dirty snitch *he probably goes get on the WG payroll and stand in front of Luffy at the end. like the damn traitor he is.*



Yes and tomorrow there will be pink dogs raining from the sky.


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## yantos (Sep 18, 2020)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Well ok if you are actually genuinely curious then I will explain what I mean by that.
> 
> First of all to get that out of the way Shanks is most likely indeed a kenshi. I am not gonna fantasize about him being anything else. He fought Mihawk after all and all Mihawk cares about is proving his superiority over every single kenshi in existence. So it is fairly reasonable to assume that is what Shanks is indeed.
> 
> ...


Rather than derailing the BM thread I think this is a better thread.
My problem with you arguments is that they are based on baseless things.

*1- *While shanks may clash with teach there is literally zero evident that teach will be as strong as WB  by then, and by putting him in WB level it means you are putting shanks himself on WB level (I am assuming Primebeard?).

*2- *The only connections between him and roger is that he was on his crew and he had his SH, which does not warrant him mid gen roger status, he never came close to OP neither was he highlighted as stronger than his peers or other yonkos, you can post manga panels if you disagree

*3- *you are dragging their personality into Power level to justify shanks being stronger?.

*4- *Shanks was never stated to be able to defeat Mihawk either so why is this an argument in favour of shanks?

*5-* They respect him because he is reasonable no thing more you are acting like the fear him and one thing to be clear it was sengoku who stopped the war not shank's invincibility again it has nothing to do with him being stronger than others.

there is no proof that Mihawk specialises in armament just because he was shown to teach zoro,because it's the basics that he was teaching,he also taught him Observation other wise zoro wouldn't have learnt it, and them specialising in a field of haki is ceratinly not a dead giveaway. especially when luffy is training his *armament *to deal with kaido while seeming forgetting he has HH so may be wait until HH means something before making such statement?


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## Beast (Sep 18, 2020)

yantos said:


> *4- *Shanks was never stated to be able to defeat Mihawk either so why is this an argument in favour of shanks?


Mihawks only favour of being above Shanks is WSS title... if he has never beat Shanks, that’s a minus against him and his title because we KNOW they have had numerous fights WHILE Mihawk was already WSS.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Sep 18, 2020)

Beast said:


> Mihawks only favour of being above Shanks is WSS title... if he has never beat Shanks, that’s a minus against him and his title because we *KNOW they have had numerous fights WHILE Mihawk was already WSS*.



When was this stated? 

I have no idea when Mihawk became WSS or how so this is news to me. Did the Ace Novel say something about it?

Reactions: Like 1


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## yantos (Sep 18, 2020)

Beast said:


> Mihawks only favour of being above Shanks is WSS title... if he has never beat Shanks, that’s a minus against him and his title because we KNOW they have had numerous fights WHILE Mihawk was already WSS.





Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> When was this stated?
> 
> I have no idea when Mihawk became WSS or how so this is news to me. Did the Ace Novel say something about it?


there was a line where shanks used to duel with the WSS mihawk, the lack of a word "current" may suggest he had the title by then though so who knows.
never the less even if Mihawk was the WSS by then it does not mean a lot given that shanks who is the challenger in this case failed to defeat Mihawk as well, one can consider it a minus for mihawk but it certainly not a plus for shanks.
and it certainly does no invalidate The WSS, for the title to be taken from him he needs to be *defeated *other wise he retains the title which is a simple logical thing.

Reactions: Like 1


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## yantos (Sep 18, 2020)

I know this is a manga but even in real life you need to defeat the champion other wise he retains the title. in most combat sports.

"If neither fighter "won" on at least two scorecards, the match is a ; in championship fights, the champion usually retains the title in a draw, if not, it is "vacated""



so mihawk could've got his title earlier and still him drawing with shanks wouldn't harm his WSS title cause the challenger needs to defeat him.


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## Beast (Sep 18, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> When was this stated?
> 
> I have no idea when Mihawk became WSS or how so this is news to me. Did the Ace Novel say something about it?


Yeah, Ace Novel referred to Mihawk as the WSS in his duels against Shanks.


yantos said:


> there was a line where shanks used to duel with the WSS mihawk, the lack of a word "current" may suggest he had the title by then though so who knows.
> never the less even if Mihawk was the WSS by then it does not mean a lot given that shanks who is the challenger in this case failed to defeat Mihawk as well, one can consider it a minus for mihawk but it certainly not a plus for shanks.
> and it certainly does no invalidate The WSS, for the title to be taken from him he needs to be *defeated *other wise he retains the title which is a simple logical thing.


You can’t be considered the strongest but can’t beat Shanks. The title is invalid if he isn’t the sole strongest swordsman... which he isn’t since he has never beaten Shanks. The title should be shared or thrown away.


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## yantos (Sep 18, 2020)

The fact that the author still gives Mihawk the title in the *Narrator Box *despite that disagrees with your claim. and tells that he is going with the fact that you need to defeat him other wise he still is WSS, sorry to break it to you man but the author's view is more credible than yours.


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## Beast (Sep 18, 2020)

yantos said:


> The fact that the author still gives Mihawk the title in the *Narrator Box *despite that disagrees with your claim. and tells that he is going with the fact that you need to defeat him other wise he still is WSS, sorry to break it to you man but the author's view is more credible than yours.


Lmao... Odas words and narration is a major contradiction to itself, so much for credibility


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## Quipchaque (Sep 18, 2020)

yantos said:


> Rather than derailing the BM thread I think this is a better thread.
> My problem with you arguments is that they are based on baseless things.
> 
> *1- *While shanks may clash with teach there is literally zero evident that teach will be as strong as WB  by then, and by putting him in WB level it means you are putting shanks himself on WB level (I am assuming Primebeard?).
> ...



Honestly I don't intend to read your post nor debate any points. Not trying to be disrespectful. Just that it won't lead to anything. I only wanted to explain to you what I meant by "context of story". So agree to disagree.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Sep 18, 2020)

why they cancel the poll? couldn't take the L?

as most people should know Shanks is stronger and it's simple he got much better feat and hype

Yonko are strongest Pirates .... Mihawk is no exaptation


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## convict (Sep 18, 2020)

1. Shanks
2. Shanks
3. Jaracule


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## JustSumGuy (Sep 18, 2020)

Beast said:


> You can’t be considered the strongest but can’t beat Shanks. The title is invalid if he isn’t the sole strongest swordsman... which he isn’t since he has never beaten Shanks. The title should be shared or thrown away.



So Zoro’s whole dream and journey in this series has been a joke is what your saying. He’s gonna be inheriting a fake, meaningless title.

Zoro’s journey in this story means more than any preconceived notion of how strong Shanks SHOULD be by our standards.


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## Beast (Sep 18, 2020)

JustSumGuy said:


> So Zoro’s whole dream and journey in this series has been a joke is what your saying. He’s gonna be inheriting a fake, meaningless title.
> 
> Zoro’s journey in this story means more than any preconceived notion of how strong Shanks SHOULD be by our standards.


Don’t worry, Shanks will be dead by then anyway... 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Destiny calls


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## Gledania (Sep 19, 2020)

EoS Ghandi > Both


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## fenaker (Sep 19, 2020)

@Seraphoenix @Red Admiral we meet again Red admiral and his partner  i always destroy your headcanons in worstgen forum and then either you run away or you start saying << *Wait until Elbaf and shanks  *>>  * you even started using outdated headcanons like WB is a swordman sure as expected from both of you  ohh ...! i just realised there is a third partner here supporting you @Ren. but his headcanons know no limits  let's debunk your headcanons of Wb being a swordman and i will use two things : 

1- Headcanons don't help here shanks fans it's called 12 supreme grade weapons ; swords and spears are included but your headcanon isn't ( Viz translation )*
*Manga facts > your headcanons *
* 

2- you are trying to use kanji to prove your headcanons but you meet an expert in that   :

A- Mihawk's title uses the word sword "剣" (世界最強の剣士, "World's strongest swordman") while Famed weapons / Good weapons or the word << Meito >> is written like this " 業物 " there is no kanji for the word sword here like the one used in Mihawk's title "剣" 
 "剣" vs " 業物 " Nice try @Ren. 
*
*B- you are using Saijo o Wazamono << 最上大業物 >> as an argument to claim it means it's 12 supreme grade swords where is the kanji of the word << Sword >> here ? *
*<< 最上大業物 >> vs "剣"*

*C- Mihawk's title uses the word sword "剣" (世界最強の剣士, "World's strongest swordsman") and not the word for lance/spear "槍" . Charlotte LinLin uses a sword "剣" homie called Napoleon, she is a swordman. Shanks uses a sword “剣” called Gryphon, he is a swordman. Fujitora uses a sword “剣” in combination with his Gravity DF powers and is considered a swordsman in Oda’s words in the character section preceding each official volume. Mihawk by default is over all three of these characters in strength.*

*D- Meito << 業物 >>  definition in japanese : 利刃，快刀。  where is the word sword  "剣"  here ?*
*source : <<  >>*
*"剣" : sword vs " 利刃 " : sharp weapon / blade vs 快刀。: Good weapon / blade *

*i'm ready for any other headcanons you bring Shanks stans *

Reactions: Like 4


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## fenaker (Sep 19, 2020)

*■ Today We will talk about MIHAWK and SHANKS now let's see it: 


● Mihawk is a Swordman who is famous before the Great Pirate Era even started ; he fought all the swordmen in the World until he didn't find a worthy one who can fight him and by then He became the WSS.
▪ He is Shanks Rival [ 宿敵 ]

*

*■ He is one of the only two presented in the story until now who got a black blade beside Ryuma .
>>> His Sword YORU :
<< One of the twelve legendary swords, and it's Mihawk's Favorite Sword, a black sword characterized by unparalleled Hardness >>
<<「最 上 大業 物 十 ニ エ」の一振りで、ミホークの愛刀。
比類なき硬さを誇る黒刀。 >>


■ Shanks as Mihawk Rival obtained his Yonko Title 6 years ago and he is a swordman who fought ( Mihawk ) or clashed in panels ( WB / Akainu / MarineFord Scene - Ace ) with his Famous Sword gryphon .
[ Gryphon ]
<< it's a sword which has a long history of battles, managed to stop a Magma Fist and is characterized by its wonderful elegance >>
【グリフォン】
<< 歴戦を共にした愛刀。マグマの拳を止める強靭さと鷲獅子の優美さを誇る。>>




■ Note : For Ppl who are claiming Shanks isn't a swordman .

☆ We saw Shanks as a kid using a sword
☆ Against shiki he used a sword .
☆ Against mihawk he used a sword.
☆ When he sensed Ace coming he reached for his sword .
☆ Ace novel stated when shanks Coc wasn't enough to make Ace unconscious he grabbed his sword
☆ He has a named sword called gryphon
☆ He clashed against WB with his sword
☆ He Blocked Akainu with his sword
☆ He Challenged Marineford by brandishing his sword .



■ Once upon a time, Mihawk fought fiercely as a rival with Shanks.
<< かつてはシャンクスと、ライバルとして激しく争った事もある。>>


■ Their Duels was mentioned by WB as legendary battles when he had 2 arms .
▪ Note :
☆ Oda used Mihawk's name in chapter 96 also in Ace novel to hype Shanks .


■ But to help Luffy he lost his dominant arm .



■ There is a Statement from the Magazine which implied Shanks losing Power after he lost his dominant arm .
<< Even with one arm ;
His power is overwhelming >> .



■ There is a statement from the Red Databook which implied Shanks was once as powerful as the WSS .
<< Shanks was once as powerful as the world's best swordsman. >>

<< シャンクスはかって、世界一の剣豪と肩を並べたほどの実力を持つ。>>


■ You can translate it if you want or ask someone who will translate it for you but there is someone who translated it and mentioned
<< Used to be >> which implies that Shanks lost his power after losing his arm despite being a Yonko and if we analyse it it makes sense .
▪ A Yonko two armed shanks has to be stronger than a Yonko one armed Shanks .
( if you lost a limb you can remplace it only if you have a
DF power which will make you regenerate it or remplace it with something like kidd's DF ability but shanks never showed any df power and in every panel you find him with one arm even in his clashes)



■ Another confirmation for that in Mihawk's VC it is mentioned that :

《鷹の目"が見通すものは、剣術の才のみに非ず。それは、立ちはだかる者が持つ力の神髄。》 

 《What "Hawk-Eye" sees clearly is not just sword talent. The essence of power is in those who stand firm against enemies.》

▪ That's why he was the first person to discover the declining strength of WB in Marineford and also the true strength of Luffy .

▪ So how can't the person who knows the full strength of the other person and he is the same one who saw through luffy's true power and WB's strength know Shanks true and full strength ??


■Direct Statement from the VC: 
<<"Hawk's eyes" that every Swordman is afraid of is looking forward to the arrival of a swordman who surpasses "red hair" ...!>>

 << 剣を業とする全ての者が畏れる「鷹の目」は、か つて刃を交えた「赤髪」を凌ぐ使い手の到来を、未来に見据えている…！>>




while we have :

- Shanks never fought a worthy opponent like Mihawk and that is supported by manga itself : 

☆ WB called the duel between mihawk and shanks to be legendary 
☆ WB never heard of shanks's name after he lost his arm and stopped fighting mihawk which means he fought only some weaker opponents compared to Mihawk 
☆ he never fought a yonko or it would have been mentioned in their discussion .





☆ After all these proofs we can conclude one thing and which is :
there is no such a thing like Mihawk = Shanks or
Shanks > Mihawk there is only one fact :
Mihawk is stronger than yonko shanks .

*

Reactions: Like 3


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## Quipchaque (Sep 19, 2020)

fenaker said:


> @Seraphoenix @Red Admiral we meet again Red admiral and his partner  i always destroy your headcanons in * forum and then either you run away or you start saying << *Wait until Elbaf and shanks  *>>  * you even started using outdated headcanons like WB is a swordman sure as expected from both of you  ohh ...! i just realised there is a third partner here supporting you @Ren. but his headcanons know no limits  let's debunk your headcanons of Wb being a swordman and i will use two things :
> 
> 1- Headcanons don't help here shanks fans it's called 12 supreme grade weapons ; swords and spears are included but your headcanon isn't ( Viz translation )*
> *Manga facts > your headcanons *
> ...



I may not be a Shanks Stan but your argument is a little dishonest. Big Mom is not a swordswoman just because she uses a sword. One quick Google research and you will know kenshi is someone who learned Japanese swordsmanship. Not just any swordsman. Big Mom does not know any of that as far as we have been told. "swordsman" is evidently just a loose translation for the sake of simplicity.


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## fenaker (Sep 19, 2020)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> I may not be a Shanks Stan but your argument is a little dishonest. Big Mom is not a swordswoman just because she uses a sword. One quick Google research and you will know kenshi is someone who learned Japanese swordsmanship. Not just any swordsman. Big Mom does not know any of that as far as we have been told. "swordsman" is evidently just a loose translation for the sake of simplicity.


she used a slash like pound ho that Zoro uses


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## Quipchaque (Sep 19, 2020)

fenaker said:


> she used a slash like pound ho that Zoro uses



And what makes you think that people who are not masters of this art can't use these kind of techniques?


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## fenaker (Sep 19, 2020)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> And what makes you think that people who are not masters of this art can't use these kind of techniques?


bring me a no swordmaster who can use slashes


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## fenaker (Sep 19, 2020)

@Seraphoenix it is funny but it's the time to sit down again


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## fenaker (Sep 19, 2020)

fenaker said:


> *■ Today We will talk about MIHAWK and SHANKS now let's see it:
> 
> 
> ● Mihawk is a Swordman who is famous before the Great Pirate Era even started ; he fought all the swordmen in the World until he didn't find a worthy one who can fight him and by then He became the WSS.
> ...


this is my thread about shanks and Mihawk shanks stans no need to wait for elbaf to know how shanks will fight


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## Seraphoenix (Sep 19, 2020)

fenaker said:


> @Seraphoenix it is funny but it's the time to sit down again


You're posting the same things you always post. Mihawk drew in the past with pre-Yonko Shanks when he was WSS and is too scared to fight him now 

Dude is on the run after being fired and replaced by a toy. And guess what? No one cares that this apparent stronger than Yonko character is not part of the WG anymore, while they complain that someone weaker than a Yonko in Aokiji left.

Reactions: Like 1


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## fenaker (Sep 19, 2020)

Seraphoenix said:


> You're posting the same things you always post. Mihawk drew in the past with pre-Yonko Shanks when he was WSS and is too scared to fight him now
> 
> Dude is on the run after being fired and replaced by a toy. And guess what? No one cares that this apparent stronger than Yonko character is not part of the WG anymore, while they complain that someone weaker than a Yonko in Aokiji left.


*while the same shanks after he lost his arm he never fought a worthy opponent on the same caliber as mihawk nice try 
☆ WB called the duel between mihawk and shanks something of legend .*
*☆ WB never heard of shanks's name after he lost his arm and stopped fighting mihawk which means he fought only some weaker opponents compared to Mihawk
☆ he never fought a yonko or it would have been mentioned in their discussion .*
* 

- the same outdated headcanons you need to grow stronger Sera you are weak *

Reactions: Like 2


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## Quipchaque (Sep 19, 2020)

fenaker said:


> bring me a no swordmaster who can use slashes



Big Mom, Wapol's sub, Mr 1, Whitebeard, Roger, Captain Morgan.


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## Seraphoenix (Sep 19, 2020)

fenaker said:


> *while the same shanks after he lost his arm he never fought a worthy opponent on the same caliber as mihawk nice try
> ☆ WB called the duel between mihawk and shanks something of legend .
> ☆ WB never heard of shanks's name after he lost his arm and stopped fighting mihawk which means he fought only some weaker opponents compared to Mihawk
> ☆ he never fought a yonko or it would have been mentioned in their discussion .
> ...


He clashes equally with WSM level WB and WSC Kaido. Both of whom are stronger than Mihawk

Who has Mihawk fought of note besides pre-Yonko Shanks? Marco thought Vista was enough to stalemate him and he was right 

WSS is an empty title when you don't fight the strongest  Mihawk is good at picking his opponents.

Meanwhile Shanks has challenged every top tier he encountered on panel so far with the exception of Rayleigh
And guess what? only fellow Yonko had the courage to draw a weapon against him

Reactions: Like 3


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## Beast (Sep 19, 2020)

Either Shanks and Mihawk are equal ( best case for Mihawk fans). 

shanks is stronger being a yonko. (Best case for Shanks fans) 

Mihawk can’t be stronger because he is the secret Co captain of the RHP. 

Captain>~ Co Captain>~ Vice Captain

Reactions: Like 2


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## Quipchaque (Sep 19, 2020)

Seraphoenix said:


> He clashes equally with WSM level WB and WSC Kaido. Both of whom are stronger than Mihawk
> 
> Who has Mihawk fought of note besides pre-Yonko Shanks? Marco thought Vista was enough to stalemate him and he was right
> 
> ...



To be fair it is not like Mihawk is scared of the likes of Shanks or Whitebeard. He was all alone in front of Shanks and his whole crew and still mocked him. He did not at all hesitate to challenge Whitebeard either and he is all excited about Zoro getting as strong as possible. When he found out he was gonna get chased by the whole marine forces he actually got excited. He is not a coward. Don't let this guy get under your skin and pull out this exaggerated nonsense cause of that. You know better. And "the fight" between Mihawk and Vista was not over. Also Noone uses something like that as a serious argument in the verse itself.

Reactions: Like 1


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## fenaker (Sep 19, 2020)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Big Mom, Wapol's sub, Mr 1, Whitebeard, Roger, Captain Morgan.


*i think you don't understand the meaning of slash when we talk about swordmen though when you slash with your sword you produce an air force that can travel by using your raw strength  
it's a ranged attack that take form and can travel either in a circular way or in a straight way :

let's see Zoro :

- Big mom : 





bring me something like this that we only saw it with Mihawk / Ray / Roger / Zoro / Big mom / Ryuma *


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## Quipchaque (Sep 19, 2020)

fenaker said:


> *i think you don't understand the meaning of slash when we talk about swordmen though when you slash with your sword you produce an air force that can travel by using your raw strength
> it's a ranged attack that take form and can travel either in a circular way or in a straight way :
> 
> let's see Zoro :
> ...



Well again Big Mom is not a swordmaster based on current knowledge so... And whether or not they take form is irrelevant. It is still an air slash. Or what else would you call that...? Btw there is also Roger. He sent an air slash with form too and we both know he is most definitely not a kenshi.


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## fenaker (Sep 19, 2020)

Seraphoenix said:


> He clashes equally with WSM level WB and WSC Kaido. Both of whom are stronger than Mihawk
> 
> Who has Mihawk fought of note besides pre-Yonko Shanks? Marco thought Vista was enough to stalemate him and he was right
> 
> ...


*Mihawk fought all the swordmen in the World after shanks lost his arm  and he had his full potential and strength while shanks lost his dominant arm and fought only some opponents weaker than his rival and if you are talking about him fighting top tiers after he lost his arm bring proofs for that not your headcanon  he stalemated a no gura sickbeard while being in life support is that even a feat ? while akainu stalemated his Gura power mihawk sensed that wb is weaker and then he sent a one handed casual slash to see if he was right or not and then jozu hyped himself by screaming and still he got bruises while using his diamond form the same Jozu didn't get any damage or he was unconscious from full CoC effect from Shanks who has his partner as his equal  *


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## fenaker (Sep 19, 2020)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Well again Big Mom is not a swordmaster based on current knowledge so... And whether or not they take form is irrelevant. It is still an air slash. Or what else would you call that...? Btw there is also Roger. He sent an air slash with form too and we both know he is most definitely not a kenshi.


and why Roger wouldn't be a swordman he is a swordman like his partner and like oden and like shanks and big mom uses sword in her full power against Kaido


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## Red Admiral (Sep 19, 2020)

fenaker said:


> *■ Today We will talk about MIHAWK and SHANKS now let's see it:
> 
> 
> ● Mihawk is a Swordman who is famous before the Great Pirate Era even started ; he fought all the swordmen in the World until he didn't find a worthy one who can fight him and by then He became the WSS.
> ...




same old nonsense and over reading on things that are barely canon or matter


Yonko are strongest pirates and been proven by Garp , Ace novel and hype around them

while Mihawk is a has been who never did anything big in his life but have the HONER of facing Shanks

and in terms of on screen feat is his few galaxy below Shanks

Reactions: Like 1


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## fenaker (Sep 19, 2020)

@Red Admiral even if you took 20000 points of reputation from me you are still weak like your partner @Seraphoenix i thought i will find you growing stronger than before but you are still weak


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## fenaker (Sep 19, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> same old nonsense and over reading on things that are barely canon or matter
> 
> 
> Yonko are strongest pirates and been proven by Garp , Ace novel and hype around them
> ...


ace novel hyped shanks because of his duel against mihawk not the way around  are you talking about Yonko title which no one in the world wanted while other titles are wanted by other characters let's not talk about Den Den translation and to be a Yonko you need territories and that was proven when teach got it only by fighting marco and his friends who are no where near that level   the same old headcanons you are using while manga and databooks proved Mihawk strength while manga now proves Shanks's relation to Gorosei while no one either they are Yonko or roger or Wb or luffy himself went to talk with them


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## Red Admiral (Sep 19, 2020)

fenaker said:


> @Red Admiral even if you took 20000 points of reputation from me you are still weak like your partner @Seraphoenix i thought i will find you growing stronger than before but you are still weak



tbh ... I'm sick of you cause you take your own fan fiction to be true ... this level of disrespect to others is inhuman to me ... 

the fact that ace novel called all the Yonko "strongest and most powerful pirate" 10 times is 10 times more than what ever thing you said

you begged to be beaten by more screen time ... don't you worry a bit ... Shanks Is Coming 

and then ... I would see would Oda all the sudden give god level respect to Mihawk ... the same way he did to Shanks

or ... he keep the way he was doing .... hype Shanks in to highest plot related level with massive power level feats and hype ... and Mihawk as a great side kick ... 


if you want to be beaten by manga ... I see you in a year .... cause clearly you closed your mind to anything that don't fit your agenda

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Sep 19, 2020)

fenaker said:


> ace novel hyped shanks because of his duel against mihawk not the way around  are you talking about Yonko title which no one in the world wanted while other titles are wanted by other characters let's not talk about Den Den translation and to be a Yonko you need territories and that was proven when teach got it only by fighting marco and his friends who are no where near that level   the same old headcanons you are using while manga and databooks proved Mihawk strength while manga now proves Shanks's relation to Gorosei while no one either they are Yonko or roger or Wb or luffy himself went to talk with them



no novel didn't ... a Mihawk fan with agenda and his bad translate did... no where in real novel Mihawk got any level of hype ...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Sep 19, 2020)

fenaker said:


> this is my thread about shanks and Mihawk shanks stans no need to wait for elbaf to know how shanks will fight


@Soca can you please check if this is not a Dupe?
@Acno  can you check if these posts are not from WG?


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## Red Admiral (Sep 19, 2020)

Ren. said:


> @Acno  can you check if these posts are not from WG?



they are ...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Sep 19, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> they are ...


I know I just wanted to check.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Flame (Sep 19, 2020)

fenaker said:


> *■ Today We will talk about MIHAWK and SHANKS now let's see it:
> 
> 
> ● Mihawk is a Swordman who is famous before the Great Pirate Era even started ; he fought all the swordmen in the World until he didn't find a worthy one who can fight him and by then He became the WSS.
> ...


You dropped this


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## Ren. (Sep 19, 2020)

fenaker said:


> @Seraphoenix @Red Admiral we meet again Red admiral and his partner  i always destroy your headcanons in * forum and then either you run away or you start saying << *Wait until Elbaf and shanks  *>>  * you even started using outdated headcanons like WB is a swordman sure as expected from both of you  ohh ...! i just realised there is a third partner here supporting you @Ren. but his headcanons know no limits  let's debunk your headcanons of Wb being a swordman and i will use two things :
> 
> 1- Headcanons don't help here shanks fans it's called 12 supreme grade weapons ; swords and spears are included but your headcanon isn't ( Viz translation )*
> *Manga facts > your headcanons *
> ...


Wa


fenaker said:


> *■ Today We will talk about MIHAWK and SHANKS now let's see it:
> 
> 
> ● Mihawk is a Swordman who is famous before the Great Pirate Era even started ; he fought all the swordmen in the World until he didn't find a worthy one who can fight him and by then He became the WSS.
> ...


Wasting my time with the same garbage posted all over again from the Zboys from WG.

HARD Pass.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Sep 19, 2020)

fenaker said:


> ■ There is a statement from the Red Databook which implied Shanks was once as powerful as the WSS .
> << Shanks was once as powerful as the world's best swordsman. >>
> 
> << シャンクスはかって、世界一の剣豪と肩を並べたほどの実力を持つ。>>


This shit smells of DenDen Mushi from WG from here at my keyboard.



fenaker said:


> *1- Headcanons don't help here shanks fans it's called 12 supreme grade weapons ; swords and spears are included but your headcanon isn't ( Viz translation )*
> *Manga facts > your headcanons *
> *
> 
> ...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Sep 19, 2020)

Flame said:


> You dropped this



not really 

all his argument is base on a the line " Shanks was as strong as Mihawk"

but the source and translations are both not canon and don't mean "now Shanks is weaker"


no databook or SBS ever talked about power level and who is how strong ... Oda don't like to mention or talk about this things
and this info are not canon let alone the translation of it 
let alone interpretation of it

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Sep 19, 2020)

fenaker said:


> *☆ he never fought a yonko or it would have been mentioned in their discussion .
> *


OMG even the same panels FFS at least use other resources.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Quipchaque (Sep 19, 2020)

fenaker said:


> *and why Roger wouldn't be a swordman he is a swordman* like his partner and like oden and like shanks and big mom uses sword in her full power against Kaido


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## JustSumGuy (Sep 19, 2020)

Why are people using Shanks’ status as a yonko as proof he’s stronger than Mihawk?

Mihawk wouldn’t be a yonko even if he was the strongest dude in the world cause he’s not a pirate captain. That’s literally it. 

Luffy will probably be a legit Yonko after Wano and he still won’t be able to beat Mihawk.


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## xmysticgohanx (Sep 20, 2020)

fenaker said:


> @Seraphoenix @Red Admiral we meet again Red admiral and his partner  i always destroy your headcanons in * forum and then either you run away or you start saying << *Wait until Elbaf and shanks  *>>  * you even started using outdated headcanons like WB is a swordman sure as expected from both of you  ohh ...! i just realised there is a third partner here supporting you @Ren. but his headcanons know no limits  let's debunk your headcanons of Wb being a swordman and i will use two things :
> 
> 1- Headcanons don't help here shanks fans it's called 12 supreme grade weapons ; swords and spears are included but your headcanon isn't ( Viz translation )*
> *Manga facts > your headcanons *
> ...


 To simplify this for y'all:

1. The meito are blades. Any translation that says swords, like the "12 Supreme Swords", is wrong. The word is blade.

2. Mihawk's title uses the word sword, not blade. So someone can have a meito but be stronger than Mihawk, like WB. Viz translates it amazingly there.

btw to all the weenies: shanks is a swordsman

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sloan (Sep 20, 2020)

Not sure who's stronger/would win but they are very close imo.  It would be like Jinbei Vs Ace or Akainu vs Aokiji etc.


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## Ren. (Sep 20, 2020)

x


xmysticgohanx said:


> To simplify this for y'all:
> 
> 1. The meito are blades. Any translation that says swords, like the "12 Supreme Swords", is wrong. The word is blade.
> 
> ...


You understand that Oda does not give a shit.

And his naginata is a long sword from feudal Japan, used by women.

Someone using a sword is not inferior to Mihawk because he has a sword.

Luffy will have superior stats so had Roger.

You don't get those by training and only that.

Don't need to translate to me this shit narrative, Oda decides who is stronger, next time he might make Shanks be stronger, for now, two are night equal, who is stronger I don't care.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 20, 2020)

JustSumGuy said:


> Why are people using Shanks’ status as a yonko as proof he’s stronger than Mihawk?










cause

Yonko = equal to strongest man = Strongest Pirates = most powerful Pirates

>

Mihawk​


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## JustSumGuy (Sep 20, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> cause
> 
> Yonko = equal to strongest man = Strongest Pirates = most powerful Pirates
> 
> ...



You forgot to post the scan where Shanks asks if Mihawk wants to fight him and Mihawk says he doesn’t fight “one-armed has beens”. 

And if we’re using sources outside the manga Mihawk’s vivre card says he’s waiting for the day someone comes along that’s stronger than Shanks.


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## Ren. (Sep 20, 2020)

JustSumGuy said:


> You forgot to post the scan where Shanks asks if Mihawk wants to fight him and Mihawk says he doesn’t fight “one-armed has beens”.
> 
> And if we’re using sources outside the manga Mihawk’s vivre card says he’s waiting for the day someone comes along that’s stronger than Shanks.


So nothing burgers that were discussed to infinite!


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## Zuhaitz (Sep 20, 2020)

JustSumGuy said:


> You forgot to post the scan where Shanks asks if Mihawk wants to fight him and Mihawk says he doesn’t fight “one-armed has beens”.
> 
> And if we’re using sources outside the manga Mihawk’s vivre card says he’s waiting for the day someone comes along that’s stronger than Shanks.


You mean when Mihawk ran away from Shanks?


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## Red Admiral (Sep 21, 2020)

JustSumGuy said:


> You forgot to post the scan where Shanks asks if Mihawk wants to fight him and Mihawk says he doesn’t fight “one-armed has beens”.
> 
> And if we’re using sources outside the manga Mihawk’s vivre card says he’s waiting for the day someone comes along that’s stronger than Shanks.



Shanks was ready to fight Mihawk while he was drunk in front of all of his crew 
Shanks was SURE he can win but it was Mihawk who chickened out
and surely Mihawk never showed us any feat so far to prove us otherwise 

and no

vivre card said he is waiting for "stronger swords master" not "someone"
Vista is a stronger swordsmaster than Big Mom
so what? Vista > Big Mom?


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## JustSumGuy (Sep 21, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> Shanks was ready to fight Mihawk while he was drunk in front of all of his crew
> Shanks was SURE he can win but it was Mihawk who chickened out
> and surely Mihawk never showed us any feat so far to prove us otherwise
> 
> ...



Any argument that implies Mihawk being scared of Shanks I just can’t take seriously. He didn’t come to see Shanks to fight he went to inquire about Luffy.

And if Shanks isn’t a swordsmen then what is he? And please don’t say Haki master. That’s not a fighting style. Take away Shanks sword does he beat Mihawk? Hell no. Does Big Mom still beat Vista if you take away her sword? Absolutely. It’s a different case.


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## Sloan (Sep 21, 2020)

Shanks might be the equivalent of Kenpachi.  He uses a sword but he's not exactly a swordsman(Think he literally took one lesson his whole life).  Fights with raw strength+Reitsu(Haki)+Instincts.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Ren. (Sep 21, 2020)

JustSumGuy said:


> That’s not a fighting style. Take away Shanks sword does he beat Mihawk? Hell no.


You don't know as he never fought anyone, only blocked Akainu with a Sword.


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## JustSumGuy (Sep 21, 2020)

Ren. said:


> You don't know as he never fought anyone, only blocked Akainu with a Sword.



In all of his appearances, Shanks uses a sword. Now, if he shows a legit non-sword style fighting techniques, then I’ll be open to the possibility of Shanks being stronger but highly doubt that’s it gonna happen.

Look at a character like Kaku, is a master of rokushi and is a devil fruit user. But he’s still a swordsman from a narrative perspective and defined himself as such.  If he wasn’t then why was Zoro the one that had to beat him? Yeah because he’s the second strongest but also because Zoro’s aiming to be the strongest swordsman and beating Kaku was a tiny, yet necessary step in that direction. If he would’ve lost that would’ve broken his oath to Luffy to never lose to a swordsman again point blank.

At the end of the day, absolutely nobody would be disputing that Shanks is a swordsman at this point in the story if Mihawk didn’t have the WSS title and that’s a fact.


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## Ren. (Sep 21, 2020)

JustSumGuy said:


> Look at a character like Kaku, is a master of rokushi and is a devil fruit user. But he’s still a swordsman from a narrative perspective and defined himself as such. If he wasn’t then why was Zoro the one that had to beat him? Yeah because he’s the second strongest but also because Zoro’s aiming to be the strongest swordsman and beating Kaku was a tiny, yet necessary step in that direction. If he would’ve lost that would’ve broken his oath to Luffy to never lose to a swordsman again point blank.


Kaku's best feat was with his soru.

Kakau was as much a Swordsman as BM is.



JustSumGuy said:


> At the end of the day, absolutely nobody would be disputing that Shanks is a swordsman at this point in the story if Mihawk didn’t have the WSS title and that’s a fact.


At the end of the day Oda does not give a shit about PL, if he wants tomorrow he makes Shank with one hand and no sword stronger than Mihawk.

The but is Zoro's dream so it must the way we think it should be is our interpretation.
Zoro will be WSS, Oda will decide what that means.
Roger was a swordsmann so was Ray and none were WSS as we know so no Shanks does not need to be inferior to Mihawk so Zoro can be WSS.


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## JustSumGuy (Sep 21, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Kaku's best feat was with his soru.
> 
> Kakau was as much a Swordsman as BM is.
> 
> ...



Kaku was a swordsman as per the story. That’s a fact. Oda doesn’t seem to care if he gives them devil fruits or fighting styles. 

Roger could’ve been the worlds strongest swordsman too. Or Rayleigh. But that has nothing to do with the WSS title now cause one’s dead and other is out of his prime clearly. And Zoro’s dream is to become the World’s Strongest Swordsman not the Strongest Swordsman of All Time.


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## Ren. (Sep 21, 2020)

JustSumGuy said:


> Roger could’ve been the worlds strongest swordsman too. Or Rayleigh. But that has nothing to do with the WSS title now cause one’s dead and other is out of his prime clearly. And Zoro’s dream is to become the World’s Strongest Swordsman not the Strongest Swordsman of All Time.


Irrelevant, again strongest, best, or whatever, that title was not explained as if you have a sword and you fight with it you must be weaker than the WSS.

This is not DBZ where we have a tournament and we decide the best of the best.


JustSumGuy said:


> Kaku was a swordsman as per the story. That’s a fact. Oda doesn’t seem to care if he gives them devil fruits or fighting styles.


He said he was a swordsman but his best attacks were generated by its DF and not swords.


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## Ren. (Sep 21, 2020)

@JustSumGuy  I get what you say and that can be plausible but we lack information to be sure.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 21, 2020)

JustSumGuy said:


> Any argument that implies Mihawk being scared of Shanks I just can’t take seriously. He didn’t come to see Shanks to fight he went to inquire about Luffy.
> 
> And if Shanks isn’t a swordsmen then what is he? And please don’t say Haki master. That’s not a fighting style. Take away Shanks sword does he beat Mihawk? Hell no. Does Big Mom still beat Vista if you take away her sword? Absolutely. It’s a different case.



Shanks is a swordsman .... but WSS is not a over al power related title

Roger being a swordsman , strongest man and not WSS ... prove my point 

Mihawk is just better than Shanks (or any one) in ONE TERM of power


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## JustSumGuy (Sep 21, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> Shanks is a swordsman .... but WSS is not a over al power related title
> 
> Roger being a swordsman , strongest man and not WSS ... prove my point
> 
> Mihawk is just better than Shanks (or any one) in ONE TERM of power



World’s Strongest Swordsman is not a power related title? It absolutely is. 

We don’t know if Roger was WSS or not. He coulda been. (Personally, I still believe that Roger has a DF that he uses when he got serious but there’s no proof of that so I won’t use that). 

So then what is Shanks better at than Mihawk?


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## xmysticgohanx (Sep 21, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> cause
> 
> Yonko = equal to strongest man = Strongest Pirates = most powerful Pirates
> 
> ...





JustSumGuy said:


> You forgot to post the scan where Shanks asks if Mihawk wants to fight him and Mihawk says he doesn’t fight “one-armed has beens”.
> 
> And if we’re using sources outside the manga Mihawk’s vivre card says he’s waiting for the day someone comes along that’s stronger than Shanks.


 he also forgot the sbs where Oda has whitebeard, Shanks, and Mihawk in a 1v1v1. Then Oda says it would be ridiculous if they started whacking each other in the balls. 

The ridiculous part wasn’t Mihawk in that 1v1v1

If Shanks clashing with whitebeard means he = to whitebeard, then the sbs would make Mihawk = to those two with that same logic.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 22, 2020)

xmysticgohanx said:


> he also forgot the sbs where Oda has whitebeard, Shanks, and Mihawk in a 1v1v1. Then Oda says it would be ridiculous if they started whacking each other in the balls.
> 
> The ridiculous part wasn’t Mihawk in that 1v1v1
> 
> If Shanks clashing with whitebeard means he = to whitebeard, then the sbs would make Mihawk = to those two with that same logic.



well that was a wrong translations form Viz ... we in WG and with help of some fair people read it again 

Oda never called those 3 legends among men

but no one here is calling Mihawk weak ... he is BFF of Shanks and we respect him to above admirals ....


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## Red Admiral (Sep 22, 2020)

JustSumGuy said:


> World’s Strongest Swordsman is not a power related title? It absolutely is.
> 
> We don’t know if Roger was WSS or not. He coulda been. (Personally, I still believe that Roger has a DF that he uses when he got serious but there’s no proof of that so I won’t use that).
> 
> So then what is Shanks better at than Mihawk?



over all power related is one thing
power level related is other

and so far we know he wasn't 

titles ALWAYS been told to us THE FIRST TIME we see a character
true with WB
true with Mihawk
true with Kaido 

so claiming after nearly 1000 chapter Roger was WSS of his era and NO ONE mention that while being WSS is dream of Zoro is not a likely or reasonable assumption 

what Shanks have better? I can say CoC ... and that could be enough .... but real answer is we can't 100% be sure how or why

maybe CoC and next level of it
maybe he ate a DF
maybe some hidden power

we don't know ... but there is no shortage of how ...

but Yonko being strongest pirate while Mihawk is a pirate is more canon argument

than WSS = over all power so Mihawk > Shanks
when there is no source behind it
when no one in plot mention it
when Roger is not WSS
when Shanks himself don't consider Mihawk above him
when Mihawk clearly lack on screen feat compare to Shanks


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## Lyren (Sep 22, 2020)

Gotta agree with @Light D Lamperouge, Mihawk is the strongest swordman which is a category Shanks fits in so he is logically the stronger one of the two especially after the latter lost an arm.
Mihawk high diffs.

Reactions: Like 1


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## xmysticgohanx (Sep 22, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> well that was a wrong translations form Viz ... we in WG and with help of some fair people read it again
> 
> Oda never called those 3 legends among men
> 
> but no one here is calling Mihawk weak ... he is BFF of Shanks and we respect him to above admirals ....


 I trust viz over basically anything. I would need a literal word for word translation with the original Japanese text shown as well to change my mind.

btw this is nothing to do with them being called legends


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## Ren. (Sep 23, 2020)

xmysticgohanx said:


> I trust viz over basically anything. I would need a literal word for word translation with the original Japanese text shown as well to change my mind.


Done to death, means also nothing.

They are equal until Oda decides to show more


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## Red Admiral (Sep 23, 2020)

xmysticgohanx said:


> I trust viz over basically anything. I would need a literal word for word translation with the original Japanese text shown as well to change my mind.
> 
> btw this is nothing to do with them being called legends



problem was the word legends among men didn't even exist in text ... 

but WB already called Shanks and Mihawk duels legendary ... so one calling Mihawk a legendary fighter is more then canon argument


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## xmysticgohanx (Sep 23, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> problem was the word legends among men didn't even exist in text ...
> 
> but WB already called Shanks and Mihawk duels legendary ... so one calling Mihawk a legendary fighter is more then canon argument


 the thing is though that them being legends or not doesn’t really matter


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## YellowCosmos (Sep 24, 2020)

I love how this thread has almost five hundred posts when all that is required to settle the argument is to show that Shanks probably is a swordsman.


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## Beast (Sep 24, 2020)

YellowCosmos said:


> I love how this thread has almost five hundred posts when all that is required to settle the argument is to show that Shanks probably is a swordsman.


Shanks being a swordsman doesn’t hurt the topic at all. Mihawk has faced him but never beat him.

Reactions: Like 2


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## YellowCosmos (Sep 24, 2020)

Beast said:


> Mihawk has faced him but never beat him.



There's no evidence of that whatsoever.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 24, 2020)

YellowCosmos said:


> I love how this thread has almost five hundred posts when all that is required to settle the argument is to show that Shanks probably is a swordsman.



now really ...

Roger was a swordsman
Roger was strongest
Roger wasn't WSS

Shanks is one of 4 Strongest Pirate ... Mihawk is a pirate ... the title argument works for us as well

AND 

we have enough on screen feat to back the claim up ... unlike Mihawk


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## Beast (Sep 24, 2020)

YellowCosmos said:


> There's no evidence of that whatsoever.


What do you mean?


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## Bash24 (Sep 24, 2020)

I think Shanks is the better man and pirate by far but Mihawk might be the stronger person. If you think about it, Shanks is way more successful. Always having fun and enjoying life. Mihawk is basically a loser lol


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## Ren. (Sep 24, 2020)

YellowCosmos said:


> There's no evidence of that whatsoever.


There is no evidence for the reverse either.


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## Beast (Sep 25, 2020)

Ren. said:


> There is no evidence for the reverse either.


That’s not how it works... he basically lied, there are only two facts. Mihawk and Shanks fought numerous times, no winner. 

to say otherwise is factually wrong.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 25, 2020)

Beast said:


> That’s not how it works... he basically lied, there are only two facts. Mihawk and Shanks fought numerous times, no winner.
> 
> to say otherwise is factually wrong.



in fact ... base on logic behind duels

when Mihawk came to Shanks
Shanks said: are you here for a challenge?

now if you want to overread it

the loser of previews fight should come and ask for a duel and that's what Shanks expected ...
the winner would never challenge the loser ... the loser challenge the winner 

so the odds for Mihawk lost the fights (in terms of numbers of wins and loses) is more than other way around or 50%-50%


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## Beast (Sep 25, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> in fact ... base on logic behind duels
> 
> when Mihawk came to Shanks
> Shanks said: are you here for a challenge?
> ...


Exactly... but if they’ve never beat each other? Both would still have a
Score to settle but Shanks lost his arm and became a yonko.


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## YellowCosmos (Sep 26, 2020)

Beast said:


> What do you mean?



It means there is no evidence that Shanks didn't lose to Mihawk or that in their duels Mihawk didn't have some sort of edge. We haven't seen their fights nor do we know the results, so we're not in a position to claim that their duels were draws or that Shanks won.



Ren. said:


> There is no evidence for the reverse either.



I never said there was.


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## Ren. (Sep 26, 2020)

YellowCosmos said:


> It means there is no evidence that Shanks didn't lose to Mihawk or that in their duels Mihawk didn't have some sort of edge. We haven't seen their fights nor do we know the results, so we're not in a position to claim that their duels were draws or that Shanks won.
> 
> 
> 
> I never said there was.


So equal as I said!


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## Beast (Sep 26, 2020)

YellowCosmos said:


> It means there is no evidence that Shanks didn't lose to Mihawk or that in their duels Mihawk didn't have some sort of edge. We haven't seen their fights nor do we know the results, so we're not in a position to claim that their duels were draws or that Shanks won.


did I say Shanks won? 
Maybe you should reread it again... everything points to them having draws or there would be no score for Mihawk to settle and instead decided to quit asking for matches.


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## YellowCosmos (Sep 26, 2020)

Ren. said:


> So equal as I said!



Equality also needs evidence. You need to know that fights ended in a draw or something of that sort. Not knowing how the fights ended isn't evidence that we have equality.


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## YellowCosmos (Sep 26, 2020)

Beast said:


> Maybe you should reread it again... everything points to them having draws or there would be no score for Mihawk to settle and instead decided to quit asking for matches.



I merely objected to your claim that "Mihawk has faced but never beat him". Do you have any information about when their last duel took place or what that fight looked like?


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## Beast (Sep 26, 2020)

YellowCosmos said:


> I merely objected to your claim that "Mihawk has faced but never beat him". Do you have any information about when their last duel took place or what that fight looked like?


Again... he has never beat him... or it would have been cleared up. Mihawk wouldn’t be challenging Shanks for fights... if he has beaten him before. 
It’s like you take one brain cell, and another brain cell and use them. Don’t wait for Oda to spook Feed you anything.


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## Ren. (Sep 26, 2020)

YellowCosmos said:


> Equality also needs evidence. You need to know that fights ended in a draw or something of that sort. Not knowing how the fights ended isn't evidence that we have equality.


Yes, those were duels, so if someone won it would be a legendary duel!

And that was when Shanks was scrub and not a Yonko!


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## YellowCosmos (Sep 26, 2020)

Beast said:


> Again... he has never beat him... or it would have been cleared up. Mihawk wouldn’t be challenging Shanks for fights... if he has beaten him before.
> It’s like you take one brain cell, and another brain cell and use them. Don’t wait for Oda to spook Feed you anything.



How do you know it hasn't been cleared up? You're arguing as if there is some sequence of events which led Mihawk to get his WSS title without having beating Shanks or showing he was superior to Shanks, but you are working with zero information. The following scenario is possible: their last duel was a draw, after that Shanks lost to a person known then as the WSS, Mihawk beat that person, shortly after which Shanks lost his arm. There are other scenarios like this which are possible and you cannot claim none of them describe what happened because we don't have enough information to do that.

Also, I don't have much patience for people who act like others are stupid just because of minor disagreements. If you're going to respond to me, leave that stuff out, as you'll end up being ignored and having written your response for nothing.


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## Beast (Sep 26, 2020)

YellowCosmos said:


> How do you know it hasn't been cleared up? You're arguing as if there is some sequence of events which led Mihawk to get his WSS title without having beating Shanks or showing he was superior to Shanks, but you are working with zero information. The following scenario is possible: their last duel was a draw, after that Shanks lost to a person known then as the WSS, Mihawk beat that person, shortly after which Shanks lost his arm. There are other scenarios like this which are possible and you cannot claim none of them describe what happened because we don't have enough information to do that.
> 
> Also, I don't have much patience for people who act like others are stupid just because of minor disagreements. If you're going to respond to me, leave that stuff out, as you'll end up being ignored and having written your response for nothing.


He was already WSS during the duels against Shanks. Oda likes the whole strongest title but there’s one person at least equal to them shitick, doesn’t make any sense but that’s what he does.

you’re making things up, that could be said for anything in this verse. There is no other WSS other then Mihawk, Shanks losing to someone else is again pure fanfic.

probably just the way I type  but no need to feel belittled, you’re thinking outside the box, when all the information is right infront of you.


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## Dunno (Sep 26, 2020)

Beast said:


> That’s not how it works... he basically lied, there are only two facts. Mihawk and Shanks fought numerous times, no winner.
> 
> to say otherwise is factually wrong.


It's factually wrong to claim that there was no winner in their duels. The only factually correct statement you can make about the situation is that we don't know the results of their duels.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Sep 26, 2020)

Dunno said:


> It's factually wrong to claim that there was no winner in their duels. The only factually correct statement you can make about the situation is that we don't know the results of their duels.


Okay then... tell us who was the winner of their battle, since it’s factually wrong. 
We know they’ve had many duels... Mihawk was still looking to settle the score till Shanks lost an arm. So, now explain to me... how exactly, Mihawk could have beat Shanks... but also search for him for duels... to what exactly? Win again? 
Or maybe, WBs words were even more clear... the famous duels were Mohawk use to beat in Shanks... oh wait, that’s not what he said right?


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## YellowCosmos (Sep 26, 2020)

Beast said:


> He was already WSS during the duels against Shanks.



I have never seen any information which supports this claim. Do you have a source for this or are you making stuff up? Either way, if he was already WSS back then, the fact that he still is WSS now rather strongly implies Mihawk > Shanks in those duels. If he wasn't WSS, then scenarios like the one I described are possible.


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## Dunno (Sep 26, 2020)

Beast said:


> Okay then... tell us who was the winner of their battle, since it’s factually wrong.
> We know they’ve had many duels... Mihawk was still looking to settle the score till Shanks lost an arm. So, now explain to me... how exactly, Mihawk could have beat Shanks... but also search for him for duels... to what exactly? Win again?
> Or maybe, WBs words were even more clear... the famous duels were Mohawk use to beat in Shanks... oh wait, that’s not what he said right?


As I told you, we don't know who won, if anyone did. That's why it's wrong to claim to do. Just like it's factually wrong to claim to know who will be the final villain or to know what One Piece is. Mihawk wasn't searching for Shanks to duel. He actually stopped being interested in duelling him once he lost his arm. Keep in mind that even if they were equals, they could have won 50 fights each or something like that. Therefore, it's certainly not certain that all of their fights were draws.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Sep 26, 2020)

YellowCosmos said:


> I have never seen any information which supports this claim. Do you have a source for this or are you making stuff up? Either way, if he was already WSS back then, the fact that he still is WSS now rather strongly implies Mihawk > Shanks in those duels. If he wasn't WSS, then scenarios like the one I described are possible.


Lol, I might details confused but I try not make things up. 
It’s on TDA’s thread of Ace novel release or the other thread about the magazine. Read it properly though, apparently couple of things were just made up fanboyism. 

and no, not really. It’s the same situation with Roger and WB, never beat one another but one became the Pk and the other WSM.


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## Furinji Saiga (Sep 26, 2020)

Beast said:


> Lol, I might details confused but I try not make things up.
> It’s on TDA’s thread of Ace novel release or the other thread about the magazine. Read it properly though, apparently couple of things were just made up fanboyism.
> 
> and no, not really. It’s the same situation with Roger and WB, never beat one another but one became the Pk and the other WSM.



You are also using a shoddy translation of "settle the score" which has long been debunked. 

Mihawk said no such thing, he simply said he does not want to fight a one armed Shanks.


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## YellowCosmos (Sep 26, 2020)

Beast said:


> Lol, I might details confused but I try not make things up.
> It’s on TDA’s thread of Ace novel release or the other thread about the magazine. Read it properly though, apparently couple of things were just made up fanboyism.



I'm not finding your evidence for you. If it exists, bring it here. 



Beast said:


> and no, not really. It’s the same situation with Roger and WB, never beat one another but one became the Pk and the other WSM.



But how do you know this?


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## Beast (Sep 26, 2020)

Dunno said:


> As I told you, we don't know who won, if anyone did. That's why it's wrong to claim to do. Just like it's factually wrong to claim to know who will be the final villain or to know what One Piece is. Mihawk wasn't searching for Shanks to duel. He actually stopped being interested in duelling him once he lost his arm. Keep in mind that even if they were equals, they could have won 50 fights each or something like that. Therefore, it's certainly not certain that all of their fights were draws.


It’s because no one did... or Mihawk wouldn’t be there trying to settle the score. 

mare you having comprehensive problems? 
First time, we see Shanks and Mihawk... Shanks specifically asks whether Mihawk was looking for another duel and that he wasn’t in the mood for it, so no Mihawk was indeed looking for duels with Shanks AND only stopped because Shanks lost an arm, so now... use more brain cells and you should easily reach the conclusion that yes, those two have had many fights without a clear winner... that’s why they’re widely talked about, do you think people are interested in topics that already reached a conclusion?

so, you went dug yourself a whole, to first claim a certain number of fights they’ve had is one fanfic and there is nothing to hint at how many times they’ve fought, and two to say they each won the same amount of times, again more fanfic and unbelievable circumstances. 

shanks has never beaten Mihawk, just as Mihawk has never beaten Shanks, they’ve had multiple battles without a winner, what’s so hard to understand? 
If I wanted to... I could go out of my way to take apart the wording to make it seem like Mihawk is weaker because he is the challenger but nope, it’s one of the simplest plot points in shounen manga.


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## Dunno (Sep 26, 2020)

Beast said:


> It’s because no one did... or Mihawk wouldn’t be there trying to settle the score.
> 
> mare you having comprehensive problems?
> First time, we see Shanks and Mihawk... Shanks specifically asks whether Mihawk was looking for another duel and that he wasn’t in the mood for it, so no Mihawk was indeed looking for duels with Shanks AND only stopped because Shanks lost an arm, so now... use more brain cells and you should easily reach the conclusion that yes, those two have had many fights without a clear winner... that’s why they’re widely talked about, do you think people are interested in topics that already reached a conclusion?
> ...


I've already proven my point, and you have not disproven it. This discussion has not point anymore, so I'm done.


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## Beast (Sep 26, 2020)

Furinji Saiga said:


> You are also using a shoddy translation of "settle the score" which has long been debunked.
> 
> Mihawk said no such thing, he simply said he does not want to fight a one armed Shanks.


‘A score to settle‘ is just phrase, I’m not using to say one or the other is stronger lol. 

I didn’t say Mihawk said That though, I was referring to Shanks saying something along those lines... ‘have you come to settle the score?’, ‘have you come to pick another fight Mihawk?’, Etc. 




YellowCosmos said:


> I'm not finding your evidence for you. If it exists, bring it here.
> 
> 
> 
> But how do you know this?


Well, I can’t be asked to lol through them pages either, so... let’s ask the OPwiki @T.D.A 
Was it some BS or was it confirmed that Mihawk is/ was the WSS even back when him and shanks use to have duels?


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## Furinji Saiga (Sep 26, 2020)

Beast said:


> ‘A score to settle‘ is just phrase, I’m not using to say one or the other is stronger lol.
> 
> I didn’t say Mihawk said That though, I was referring to Shanks saying something along those lines... ‘have you come to settle the score?’, ‘have you come to pick another fight Mihawk?’, Etc.



The only thing that was stated was Shanks asking if he was here to fight, and Mihawk rejecting it saying he does not fight a one armed man.

Shanks did not say "settle the score" and neither did Mihawk.  Where are you getting these statements from?


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## Beast (Sep 26, 2020)

Furinji Saiga said:


> The only thing that was stated was Shanks asking if he was here to fight, and Mihawk rejecting it saying he does not fight a one armed man.
> 
> Shanks did not say "settle the score" and neither did Mihawk.  Where are you getting these statements from?


Bruh... did you not read what I posted?
It’s just a phrase... do you think I care enough to remember the exact words used over 18 years ago?
I said it’s a phrase... not that Mihawk said it, but something Shanks would have said... be it settle to score/ have you come here to pick another fight/ is it a fight you’re looking for, it’s all the same, only on this forum people want to bisect Words and phrase and shit, like it’s not the same thing more or less.


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## Furinji Saiga (Sep 26, 2020)

Beast said:


> Bruh... did you not read what I posted?
> It’s just a phrase... do you think I care enough to remember the exact words used over 18 years ago?
> I said it’s a phrase... not that Mihawk said it, but something Shanks would have said... be it settle to score/ have you come here to pick another fight/ is it a fight you’re looking for, it’s all the same, only on this forum people want to bisect Words and phrase and shit, like it’s not the same thing more or less.



 I understand the meaning of the phrase.  The phrase was never stated.
It is you who is deriving  implications based on this statement. You have used it multiple times already.

Not it is not the same, words and phrases have different meanings and implications.
Im sure even you are not going to be dishonest and say that "  have you come for a match "  and " have you come to settle the score" as being the same thing?

Seems to me you just want to roll on misinformation and have people accept your interpretations that do not exist in the manga or were stated by the characters.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 29, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Yes, those were duels, so if someone won it would be a legendary duel!
> 
> And that was when Shanks was scrub and not a Yonko!




Shanks after duels : Rivaling Whitebeard , Kaido and Big Mom while facing Marine
Mihawk after duels : seek shelter from WG and farming among monkeys 

I'm not even over hype or down playing any one ... just on screen facts


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## GreenBull956 (Sep 29, 2020)

1. Shanks

2. they could go down together , if Teach gets Pluton + Mihawk gets pushed to New World by Marines

hell Aokiji could go down with them too , but i'm not sure , Ao could be saved to be reformed Marines' Fleet Admiral

3. Mihawk


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## Ren. (Sep 29, 2020)

Dunno said:


> It's factually wrong to claim that there was no winner in their duels. The only factually correct statement you can make about the situation is that we don't know the results of their duels.


Those two are the same thing ...



YellowCosmos said:


> you have a source for this or are you making stuff up? Either way, if he was already WSS back then, the fact that he still is WSS now rather strongly implies Mihawk > Shanks in those duels.


Implying does not mean proof.

Yes at face value that is correct but again WB was WSM and Kaido can be WSC, WB can be stronger than Kaido even if Creature is a more general term.

The same way can happen if Shanks is WSM and Mihawk WSS.

What I am saying the Oda gives zero fuck about this.



Beast said:


> and no, not really. It’s the same situation with Roger and WB, never beat one another but one became the Pk and the other WSM.


Roger defeated once the Rox Pirates just saying!


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## Ren. (Sep 29, 2020)

Furinji Saiga said:


> Not it is not the same, words and phrases have different meanings and implications.
> Im sure even you are not going to be dishonest and say that " have you come for a match " and " have you come to settle the score" as being the same thing?


If you need a translation in  English to deduce who is stronger, you have nothing.

Oda can troll you with words as he does with panels.

If Oda wants to make Shanks equal with one hand while carrying a sword and Mihawk WSS, he will do so.

He does not care about the interpretation of the fans.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Oct 5, 2020)

WSS canon tells us that Mihawk > Shanks

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Oct 5, 2020)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> WSS canon tells us that Mihawk > Shanks



Strongest Pirates canon tells us that any Yonko > Mihawk





​


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## Shunsuiju (Oct 5, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> Strongest Pirates canon tells us that any Yonko > Mihawk
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Mihawk doesn't have a crew


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## Red Admiral (Oct 5, 2020)

Shunsuiju said:


> Mihawk doesn't have a crew



but he is a pirate ...

Yonko are both *"most powerful" *and *"Strongest"* Pirates

most powerful is obvious cause of political power
but
strongest is about personal power


do people really think Oda create Yonko as most powerful and important pirates but not strongest cause a random dude like Mihawk who have done nothing more plot and odds are he not gonna do much for world even in future?

*is narrative a joke to you guys?*

Yonko stand at the top of pirate world ... in any way


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## Shunsuiju (Oct 5, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> but he is a pirate ...
> 
> Yonko are both *"most powerful" *and *"Strongest"* Pirates
> 
> ...



In the same sentance, Garp put Shanks on Whitebeard's level, which is also not true.

The 4 Emperor's are a group called the strongest pirates in the world. They are not all on the same level nor are they individually the only 4 strong pirates in the Grand Line.

The Emperor's themselves, bar Whitebeard, have never been put on a pedestal above people like Mihawk in any direct way. If you can find me a panel where someone of esteem comfortably states Shanks is stronger than Mihawk then sure. You might find that hard though if the man has a title directly confirming he is stronger than Shanks, but be my guest.

Moreover, gaining the title of Yonko is not just about strength. If that were the case, Shanks would have been a Yonko before he lost his arm. 

You need an abundance of territory, equal to that of the others, and you need a crew.

Narratively, Mihawk *is* stronger than Shanks. He dueled and bested him and remains the strongest person who wields a sword in the world.

Furthermore, Mihawk is waiting for someone to surpass Shanks, will not duel Shanks anymore after losing his arm, and is ultimately Zoro's final obstacle in aserting himself above anyone who claims themselves a swordsman, which Shanks does.


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## Red Admiral (Oct 5, 2020)

Shunsuiju said:


> In the same sentance, Garp put Shanks on Whitebeard's level, which is also not true.
> 
> The 4 Emperor's are a group called the strongest pirates in the world. They are not all on the same level nor are they individually the only 4 strong pirates in the Grand Line.
> 
> ...




you do know that's the line from canon ace novel? where they called Yonko (again) strongest pirates
and you can try to find a panel where any one call Mihawk above Shanks ... even Shanks disagreed with that
this is a story ... there is nO reason for Oda to make Yonko greatest pirate alive and not strongest as well
narratively Mihawk is close to irrlavant to story and nothing point out he is equal to him any more while Shanks fought his way to stand equal to Whitebeard Miahwk was on his home farming with some monkey and this is not even a joke

Mihawk is wating for a "Swordmaster" above Shanks ... Vista is a better swordsmaster than big mom ... so what's your point?

Mihawk is only better than Shanks in 1 term of power ... that's not enough to be comparable to a YONKO


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## Shunsuiju (Oct 5, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> you do know that's the line from canon ace novel? where they called Yonko (again) strongest pirates




Oh yeah I forget that time Oda confirmed Shanks was stronger than Mihawk in a side-novel. fucking idiot





> and you can try to find a panel where any one call Mihawk above Shanks ... even Shanks disagreed with that



what





> this is a story ... there is nO reason for Oda to make Yonko greatest pirate alive and not strongest as well



what





> narratively Mihawk is close to irrlavant to story and nothing point out he is equal to him any more while Shanks fought his way to stand equal to Whitebeard Miahwk was on his home farming with some monkey and this is not even a joke



I see you are getting emotional. Mihawk is Zoro's goal, that's plenty of story relevance; if we wanna go there.




> Mihawk is wating for a "Swordmaster" above Shanks ... Vista is a better swordsmaster than big mom ... so what's your point?



You're mincing words. Mihawk is waiting for someone to be stronger than Shanks, period. Big Mom is far stronger than Vista because she can sit on him and carve out his organs with Napoleon.



> Mihawk is only better than Shanks in 1 term of power ... that's not enough to be comparable to a YONKO



huh?


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## Skaddix (Oct 5, 2020)

I mean I am still not sure why Mihawk wasn't just a Bounty Hunter.


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## Red Admiral (Oct 5, 2020)

Shunsuiju said:


> Oh yeah I forget that time Oda confirmed Shanks was stronger than Mihawk in a side-novel. fucking idiot
> 
> what
> 
> ...



I guess you need to work on your reading skills before having an argument with some cause is too much what and huh 

so I'm done ... but one last point

being relevant so a character story arc =/= relevance to plot



Skaddix said:


> I mean I am still not sure why Mihawk wasn't just a Bounty Hunter.



cause he need to care about money in order to do that ...

being a bounty hunter is nowhere as hype as being a pirate ... and it make you lose credit inside pirate world ...


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## Dunno (Oct 6, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> Strongest Pirates canon tells us that any Yonko > Mihawk
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you read the page you yourself linked, you can see that Garp said nothing about strength, and the credibility of the character Thatch in a spin-off compared to the narrator in the manga is pretty much zero. This "canon" of yours is a lie.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Oct 6, 2020)

Dunno said:


> If you read the page you yourself linked, you can see that Garp said nothing about strength, and the credibility of the character Thatch in a spin-off compared to the narrator in the manga is pretty much zero. This "canon" of yours is a lie.



Yonko are equal to WB in terms of power and fame ... Garp word put Yonko on SAME CALSS of Pirates that ALL YONKO are ... 

Thatch is canon
Ace Novel is canon

the only part that is not really from Oda is "Ace Personality" that may or may not be truthful to manga

ANY OTHER detail from Ace Novel 2 is canon ...


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## Dunno (Oct 6, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> Yonko are equal to WB in terms of power and fame ... Garp word put Yonko on SAME CALSS of Pirates that ALL YONKO are ...
> 
> Thatch is canon
> Ace Novel is canon
> ...


The Yonkou are indeed on Whitebeard's level in terms of power and fame, that's what the title means. That you are one of the four most powerful pirates, controlling a large part of the New World.That your clout is greater than that of any other pirate. That you've got more clout than any other pirate. Not that you are individually stronger. 

The Ace Novel wasn't written by Oda. It was written by some guy called Sho Hinata. It's as canon as the data books, the movies and all of the other "supervised but not written by Oda" stuff. And even if it was canon, a character statement is just that, the statement of one character. I haven't seen you seriously claim that Pica could beat Fujitora+Law+the SHs, but are you saying it's canon that he could?


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## Red Admiral (Oct 6, 2020)

Dunno said:


> The Ace Novel wasn't written by Oda. It was written by some guy called Sho Hinata. It's as canon as the data books, the movies and all of the other "supervised but not written by Oda" stuff. And even if it was canon, a character statement is just that, the statement of one character. I haven't seen you seriously claim that Pica could beat Fujitora+Law+the SHs, but are you saying it's canon that he could?



the information's was heavily supervised by Oda ... it means there are no wrong statement in the novel .... unless Oda would rule it out
that's the meaning of a supervised story 

and a YC statement is as canon as it can get unless he is talking about UNKNOWN data

Yonko > any Pirates is a given mate ... there is no reason for Oda to give Yonko highest level of fame and politcal power and importance 
and yet don't make them strongest cause of a character like Mihawk who don't have much impact on plot or world 

he clearly didn't gave Mihawk enough feat or hype in Marine Ford to back the claim up
all Mihawk have is fans who keep hype him up cause of other people feat .... 


the world and important pirates like a YC of WBP call Yonko > Mihawk is more than enough to shut down Mihawk wank ...


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## VileNotice (Oct 7, 2020)

Lol 19 page thread. This is a matchup that literally cannot be known with current information. No doubt Oda purposefully left it open-ended to incite fan obsession.


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## Shanks (Oct 7, 2020)

VileNotice said:


> Lol 19 page thread. This is a matchup that literally cannot be known with current information. No doubt Oda purposefully left it open-ended to incite fan obsession.


Oda don't care. People care too much.


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## Quipchaque (Oct 7, 2020)

JustSumGuy said:


> World’s Strongest Swordsman is not a power related title? It absolutely is.
> 
> We don’t know if Roger was WSS or not. He coulda been. (Personally, I still believe that Roger has a DF that he uses when he got serious but there’s no proof of that so I won’t use that).
> 
> So then what is Shanks better at than Mihawk?



Conqueror's haki. Fairly obvious that that will be Shanks' bread and butter in combat (combined with swordsmanship).


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## cry77 (Oct 8, 2020)

Light D Lamperouge said:


> Moreover, he is appointed as the goal of one of the main characters.
> 
> 
> Mihawk is a man who awaits a day someone will emerge to surpass Shanks, a Yonko, in order to present a challenge to him


A lot of this stuff just doesnt make sense, story wise.

1. Zoro's goal is to become WSS - Mihawk is the current title-holder but he has no personal vendetta against him. Assuming Mihawk loses the title, Zoro likely loses most of his interest - especially after he trained under him. 

2.  Weird hyperbole - Mihawk had many years to go after WB - a man not only stronger than Shanks but himself as well. If he really wanted someone to beat him he would fight WB. 

I agree that Mihawk has received hype to heaven and back, but I fear he wont live up to it, same as many Post-Skip threats really havent had that impressive showings - Im thinking at BM and Kaido.


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## Red Admiral (Oct 8, 2020)

cry77 said:


> 2.  Weird hyperbole - Mihawk had many years to go after WB - a man not only stronger than Shanks but himself as well. If he really wanted someone to beat him he would fight WB.



that line is not about "surpass Shanks" .... just fight a better "sword master" than Shanks
Vista is a better sword master than Big Mom ... 
so what? should be say Vista > Big Mom ...


swordsman only care about swordsmanship and that's all .... overall power is another story ... CoC is end game


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## cry77 (Oct 8, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> that line is not about "surpass Shanks" .... just fight a better "sword master" than Shanks
> Vista is a better sword master than Big Mom ...
> so what? should be say Vista > Big Mom ...
> 
> ...


BM uses a sword too, though.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Quipchaque (Oct 8, 2020)

cry77 said:


> BM uses a sword too, though.



Yet Mihawk does not care about her... Hmmmm what does that tell us?

A) he thinks she is not worth his time

B) she is not a kenshi

I wooonder. Which one is more likely.


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## Red Admiral (Oct 8, 2020)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Yet Mihawk does not care about her... Hmmmm what does that tell us?
> 
> A) he thinks she is not worth his time
> 
> ...



why Zoro don't ever wanted to eat a DF? 

could it be ...

cause he don't give a darn about overall power .... he want to be best at "HIS OWN" field of fighting


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## Quipchaque (Oct 9, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> why Zoro don't ever wanted to eat a DF?
> 
> could it be ...
> 
> cause he don't give a darn about overall power .... he want to be best at "HIS OWN" field of fighting



That is what I have been saying.

Reactions: Like 1


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