# Kratos Vs Kenpachi



## Solon Solute (Jan 26, 2010)

Vs


Both start off at full power. Who wins?


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## Big Bοss (Jan 26, 2010)

kratos overkills


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## Narcissus (Jan 26, 2010)

Kratos drives the Blade of Olympus through Kenpachi's chest.


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## hammer (Jan 26, 2010)

kratos rips kenpachis head off


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## Level7N00b (Jan 26, 2010)

Rape. Spite thread.


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## Ulti (Jan 26, 2010)

Kratos rapes with ease. :ho


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## Raigen (Jan 26, 2010)

If Kratos can't get off any kind of Time-stopping in short order, Kenpachi takes the Blade of Olympus and jams it up Kratos' ass for being too damn slow.


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## S (Jan 26, 2010)

My sig wins...


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## The810kid (Jan 26, 2010)

People tend to forget the fact that a stone pillar was about to do in Kratos if it wasn't for plot I'd say a kendo slash from keeny should be about the same amount of damage that Aries caused by tossing that pillar seeing as he casually slices buildings with one hand. Kratos with all of his powers is very cheap though I mean he can do all sorts of shit to kenny like make him the most badass shinigami statue ever.


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## Zetta (Jan 26, 2010)

Let's say (for the sake of argument) Kenpachi kills Kratos.

5 minutes later, Kratos walks out of Hades. Now what?


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## Raigen (Jan 26, 2010)

Only reason Kratos didn't stay down there was because he didn't fall the full way. Also as shown when a Shinigami kills someone who's evil their soul gets a direct kick in the ass to Hell via the Gate.


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## Zetta (Jan 26, 2010)

Raigen said:


> Only reason Kratos didn't stay down there was because he didn't fall the full way. Also as shown when a Shinigami kills someone who's evil their soul gets a direct kick in the ass *to Hell* via the Gate.



What the fuck do you think Hades is?

Kratos fought his way out of it. Twice. And his way INTO it once.

Hell is Kratos' bitch.


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## Raigen (Jan 26, 2010)

Again, he didn't fall the whole way, which is what allowed him to climb up. Not to mention it was Zeus keeping Hades open which allowed Kratos an actual way out of it in GoW1 and the 2nd time around it was Gaea.


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## Zetta (Jan 26, 2010)

No one kept anything open. Zeus made a hole at that location because he needed Kratos to get back in Athens as fast as possible. 

He didn't need that hole to get in or out as shown during Chains Of Olympos and in Greek Mythology (mulitple entrances and exits to Hades).

Gaea did shit. She just healed him from a distance. He just exited.


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## Sansao (Jan 26, 2010)

gorgon flash, gg kenny.


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## Raigen (Jan 26, 2010)

And does Kratos know where these exits are? No. Could he have gotten out had Zeus not made the hole? No. Would he have the strength to escape the 2nd time had Gaea not healed him? No. And Medusa's head takes several seconds to actually work and that won't be happening as Kenpachi is much, much faster than Kratos. He'd take the head and Kratos' arm at once. Not to mention it doesn't function on bosses and Kenpachi isn't a living creature, he's a Shinigami, a spiritual being.

And really, don't bring in the Mythos not mentioned in the games, cause according to that Medusa's gaze also gets reversed by anything that can reflect it and only works on you if you look at her. And that didn't work out so well in GoW, now did it?


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## Sansao (Jan 26, 2010)

gorgon gaze takes time to charge, gorgon flash doesnt.


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## Zetta (Jan 26, 2010)

Raigen said:


> And does Kratos know where these exits are? No. Could he have gotten out had Zeus not made the hole? No. Would he have the strength to escape the 2nd time had Gaea not healed him? No. And Medusa's head takes several seconds to actually work and that won't be happening as Kenpachi is much, much faster than Kratos. He'd take the head and Kratos' arm at once. Not to mention it doesn't function on bosses and Kenpachi isn't a living creature, he's a Shinigami, a spiritual being.
> 
> And really, don't bring in the Mythos not mentioned in the games, cause according to that Medusa's gaze also gets reversed by anything that can reflect it and only works on you if you look at her. And that didn't work out so well in GoW, now did it?



He's at full power now. A god.


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## Ulti (Jan 26, 2010)

God Kratos?

HAHAHAHAHAHA


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## Emperor Joker (Jan 26, 2010)

Kratos grows big and then squashes Kenpachi like a bug


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## Big Bοss (Jan 26, 2010)

> Both start off at full power



for real do you think that kenpachi can win this?


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## Lucius (Jan 26, 2010)

thats a tough one for me. they are both insane monsters. but i guess kratos showed more crazy shit and zaraki seems to actually have a conscience.. sometimes^^


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## K (Jan 26, 2010)

*Kenny wins.*
*With a lil' Plot induced stupidity of course. *


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## Dante10 (Jan 26, 2010)

Raigen said:


> Only reason Kratos didn't stay down there was because he didn't fall the full way. Also as shown when a Shinigami kills someone who's evil their soul gets a direct kick in the ass to Hell via the Gate.





Zetta said:


> What the fuck do you think Hades is?
> 
> Kratos fought his way out of it. Twice. And his way INTO it once.
> 
> Hell is Kratos' bitch.



This is gold.


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## Whimsy (Jan 26, 2010)

Spine rip.


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## Zetta (Jan 26, 2010)

In gameplay terms. Kratos just walks to him and press circle.


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## pikachuwei (Jan 26, 2010)

^not even a QT sequence?


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## Solon Solute (Jan 26, 2010)

tobiah arronax said:


> for real do you think that kenpachi can win this?



When did i vote for Kenpachi?


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## SunnyMoonstone (Jan 27, 2010)

If it's full-powered god Kratos then kenny can't win, but non-god Kratos is a different story.


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## Shoddragon (Jan 27, 2010)

if it was casual kenpachi via massive speedblitz but god kratos with sword of olympus= kenpachi gets rick rolled.

also raigen, go play fucking chains of olympus, you go in AND out of hades as kratos. go hack a psp and play it or something.


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## Abigail (Jan 27, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> ^not even a QT sequence?



He's not worth it.


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## Lucifeller (Jan 27, 2010)

The810kid said:


> People tend to forget the fact that a stone pillar was about to do in Kratos if it wasn't for plot I'd say a kendo slash from keeny should be about the same amount of damage that Aries caused by tossing that pillar seeing as he casually slices buildings with one hand. Kratos with all of his powers is very cheap though I mean he can do all sorts of shit to kenny like make him the most badass shinigami statue ever.



If Kratos is at full power, he gets the form he was attacking Rhodes in, which means he quite literally STEPS ON KENPACHI. Or have you forgotten he had learned Ares's "lol I am a giant" trick?


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## Watchman (Jan 27, 2010)

I haven't played Chains of Olympos, but is Hades *really* turned into a knock off of the Abrahamic Hell in that game?


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## death1217 (Jan 27, 2010)

if its god kratos he just  puts his foot down .........................
THE END


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## Magnificent (Jan 27, 2010)




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## Ulti (Jan 27, 2010)

SunnyMoonstone said:


> If it's full-powered god Kratos then kenny can't win, but non-god Kratos is a different story.



lol non god kratos is still insanely strong and has insane reactions. Plus all those nifty magic powers.


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## Magnificent (Jan 27, 2010)

Ultimecia said:


> lol non god kratos is still insanely strong and has insane reactions. Plus all those nifty magic powers.



Didn't non-god Kratos, you know, climb up hell?


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## Ulti (Jan 27, 2010)

He overpowers huge monsters like the hydra, I don't remember if that was non god Kratos or not but that thing looked island sized and he shat on it.

He also deflected a lightning bolt thrown by Zeus, again I don't remember whether that was god or not so...


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## Judas (Jan 27, 2010)

Kratos takes a shit on Kenny.


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## Lucifeller (Jan 27, 2010)

Ultimecia said:


> He overpowers huge monsters like the hydra, I don't remember if that was non god Kratos or not but that thing looked island sized and he shat on it.



Kratos only became a god at the end of GoW... so yeah, anything he kills before that, he kills under his own power, generally. The Hydra especially. You can't chalk all of it up to Athena's blades (which are physically grafted to his body anyway).

It should be noted that what Pandora's Box actually did was make him grow huge to match Ares's size and strength - the rest was done by his own skill, and he didn't even use a magic sword to put Ares down for good, it was a bridge shaped like a sword lol. Pretty much, Kratos killed Ares through brute force alone.


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## death1217 (Jan 27, 2010)

Lucifeller said:


> Kratos only became a god at the end of GoW... so yeah, anything he kills before that, he kills under his own power, generally. The Hydra especially. You can't chalk all of it up to Athena's blades (which are physically grafted to his body anyway).
> 
> It should be noted that what Pandora's Box actually did was make him grow huge to match Ares's size and strength - the rest was done by his own skill, and he didn't even use a magic sword to put Ares down for good, it was a bridge shaped like a sword lol. Pretty much, Kratos killed Ares through brute force alone.


your also forgetting that kratos has lighting reaction feats when he reacted to zeus's bolts of lightningy lightning


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## Ulti (Jan 27, 2010)

Think I mentioned that


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## death1217 (Jan 27, 2010)

Ultimecia said:


> Think I mentioned that



... didn't see that .....man i think i need some sleep ill be going now


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## Ulti (Jan 27, 2010)

Have a good night then.


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## Narcissus (Jan 27, 2010)

Oh, I see Raigen has been souting his nonsense again.

Anyway, even human Kratios would win this throug his magic. Instant stone FTW and all that jazz.


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## Raigen (Jan 27, 2010)

When was it actually proven that Zeus' magic lightning is the same/same-speed as real lightning? You can't prove it. Fact is, you never try to prove it. Every damn time a char does something against some guy with some kinda lightning based power, you automatically go "Lightning timer!" It's bullshit. If that was true Inuyasha was that fast in an early part of the series, ever since fighting the Thunder Brothers. Then people like Dante from DMC who has Lightning element should be lightning timer.

You pull the same bs argument that you do with SW guys and the freakin blasters which aren't proven lightspeed shots. You pull the statement of "It's a laser so it's lightspeed!" all the damn time then ignore it for anyone else. This puts a number of animated and comic characters are lightspeed levels for constantly reacting/deflecting laser attacks from random people. Fuck it even works for DBZ since a number of Freeza's goons have laser-casters on their arms. They pull a trigger, it shoots a beam so it must be a laser, meaning it's gotta be lightspeed by default! :los


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## Knight (Jan 27, 2010)

Raigen said:


> irrelevent post



Because a guy who controls weather can't make real lightning is so hard to believe, right? and the fact he summoned it from the sky destroyed your claims. also even at the background it shown lighting storms.(LOL Raigen)

There your arguement is finished like the one in the Superman vs Goku thread.

also in DMC  they said it was ELECTRICITY not LIGHTNING. 
ins star Wars they already define what the bolt is so stop there.
Inuyasha his feat was pis is best nor it isn't even surperior to Kratos actually catching it. Dragon ball its Ki not light, there is a huge difference.

really just stop posting your bullshit.


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## Emperor Joker (Jan 27, 2010)

Raigen said:


> When was it actually proven that Zeus' magic lightning is the same/same-speed as real lightning? You can't prove it. Fact is, you never try to prove it. Every damn time a char does something against some guy with some kinda lightning based power, you automatically go "Lightning timer!" It's bullshit. If that was true Inuyasha was that fast in an early part of the series, ever since fighting the Thunder Brothers. Then people like Dante from DMC who has Lightning element should be lightning timer.
> 
> You pull the same bs argument that you do with SW guys and the freakin blasters which aren't proven lightspeed shots. You pull the statement of "It's a laser so it's lightspeed!" all the damn time then ignore it for anyone else. This puts a number of animated and comic characters are lightspeed levels for constantly reacting/deflecting laser attacks from random people. Fuck it even works for DBZ since a number of Freeza's goons have laser-casters on their arms. They pull a trigger, it shoots a beam so it must be a laser, meaning it's gotta be lightspeed by default! :los



You're telling me Zeus who can control the weather and it's properties can't conjure up real lightning, when there's no proof to the contrary?


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## Knight (Jan 27, 2010)

Emperor Joker said:


> You're telling me Zeus who can control the weather and it's properties can't conjure up real lightning, when there's no proof to the contrary.



What I been telling him.


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## Narcissus (Jan 27, 2010)

In mythology, thunder storms were thought to be the work of Zeus, meaning he does indeed throw real lightning bolts. And Star Wars has nothing to do with this thread.

Stop crying Raigen.

Besides, it doesn't change the outcome of this battle. Kratos slaughters Kenpachi.


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## Solon Solute (Jan 27, 2010)

Ares threw a stone spike thousands of miles with utter ease. Zeus is far greater than Ares, and Kratos was capable of reacting to his thrown lightning bolts at basically point blank range. His reaction time is definitely up there.


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## YouCannotDenyMe (Nov 7, 2010)

Kenpachi CURBSTOMPS. Anybody saying Kratos wins is not up on Bleach Anime. Period. 

There is no contest here. At all. Kratos is strong, durable, skilled, persistent. Medium speed, even with Hermes boots. Kenpachi has, at minimum, comparable raw strength. He is MORE durable. MORE skilled in combat. And stupidly faster. 

Kratos took a lot of damage in the series, but very few mortal wounds in the cinematics. The two I remember Kratos receiving was the pillar in the chest from Aries and the sword through the chest by Zeus, both of which killed him and sent him to Hades. Firstly, Kenpachi would never be hit by a projectile as slow as that pillar. Secondly, he could block it with one hand, easy. Third, if he wanted, he could just tank it.  He tanked a full on hit from the number 0 espada at full power with no injury.  That Espada is stronger than every character in God of War in terms of brute strength.  

Kenpachi also took a sword through the chest on purpose and showed no sign of injury or pain, unlike Kratos, who died. Granted, Zeus used the Sword of Olympus with all of Kratos power inside of it, which should technically be much stronger than the sword Kenpachi was stabbed with. However, the actual power of that sword is completely ambiguous. THink about it. That sword supposedly ended the war against the titans. But ZEUS, the strongest god, took the sword, had Kratos fill ALL of his god powers into it, not only making the sword stronger but making Kratos completely human, THEN, a full powered ZEUS, with the sword of olympus filled to capacity with Kratos God of War powers, stabs a now mortal Kratos straight through his torso, and it does no more damage than a regular steel sword would do. That sword, if God of War was consistent at ALL, should have literally VAPORIZED Kratos, a mere human, on contact. Zeus defeated the TITANS with that sword! Kratos was completely mortal when he was stabbed. Again, by ZEUS, the Titan slayer. Kratos didn?t even die right away. He stumbled around for a while. That is not a testament to how tough Kratos is, because there is a limit to how tough any human can be. The gods in that series just really aren?t that strong. Neither are the titans. Like you said, Kratos killed Aries with a bridge, shaped like a sword. 

Durability wise, Kenpachi far surpasses Kratos. I'm not even sure any of the normal monsters in God of War could even CUT Kenpachi, but most of them could eventually do enough damage to kill Kratos.  

Speed wise, the fastest god in God of War, Hermes, is not faster than a single shinigami in Soul Society. Anybody that can flash step is faster than Hermes, and he was by far, much faster than all the other gods, and he ran circles around Kratos. In this match up, Kratos only hits kenpachi because Kenpachi lets him. 

In the end, there is No Contest here. Whatsoever. Kenpachi would, probably barehanded, beat Kratos in god mode with the Sword of Olympus, without taking his eyepatch off. Anybody who has both played the games and kept up with Bleach would agree. I played all 3 God of War games, and am current in the Bleach manga. No contest. Also, God of War 3 was garbage. The storyline made no sense. Complete trash. Fun. Pretty. But trash. 

You God of War guys answer me this: If Kratos can return from death, why can?t ANYBODY else (besides Athena)? What about Hades? Kratos can escape the underworld and death, but HADES, the god of the underworld, can?t? Zeus, can?t? Athena and Kratos can? WHAT? And when the game starts, the titans and Kratos are climbing Mount Olympus to attack. The gods descend the mount to meet them. Why then, when Kratos falls into the underworld, is Hades already there. Why? He should be fighting the titans, on Mount Olympus, where he JUST came from. Why is he chilling in the underworld waiting for Kratos? And then, if you think about it, Kratos beat him, one on one, without even being fully powered. The weapons are not fully upgraded at that point because he is one of the earlier bosses. Ridiculous. 

Kenpachi curbstomps. Easy.  You guys think the gorgon head can freeze Kenpachi? Are you serious? You think Kratos can actually step on Kenpachi? You think that even if Kratos DID step on Kenpachi, that it would do ANY damage?  You think Kratos' reaction time is anywhere even in the same league as Kenpachi? The same guy who was able to dodge multiple sword attacks by reacting when he felt the edge of the blade touch his skin?  Come on guys. No.  Bleach guys are on another level.


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## 8-Peacock-8 (Nov 7, 2010)

YouCannotDenyMe said:


> Kenpachi CURBSTOMPS. Anybody saying Kratos wins is not up on Bleach Anime. Period.
> 
> There is no contest here. At all. Kratos is strong, durable, skilled, persistent. Medium speed, even with Hermes boots. Kenpachi has, at minimum, comparable raw strength. He is MORE durable. MORE skilled in combat. And stupidly faster.
> 
> ...



neged for Necro


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## Level7N00b (Nov 7, 2010)

YouCannotDenyMe said:


> Kenpachi CURBSTOMPS. Anybody saying Kratos wins is not up on *Bleach Anime.* Period.
> 
> There is no contest here. At all. Kratos is strong, durable, skilled, persistent. Medium speed, even with Hermes boots. Kenpachi has, at minimum, comparable raw strength. He is MORE durable. MORE skilled in combat. And stupidly faster.
> 
> ...



First of all, don't necro threads from the beginning of the year.

Second, are you that guy who continuously necro'd Heroes' threads because he was butthurt?

Third? I stopped at the bolded up top.


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## Devil Kings (Nov 7, 2010)

Why are you guys referring to Kratos as a human, and non god.

Kratos as always been a god, a demi-god, but still part god, because Zeus is his father.


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## YouCannotDenyMe (Nov 7, 2010)

First of all, don't tell me what to do. I'll respond to any thread I want. This thread is not really that old. A within the year response is perfectly acceptable. Older is acceptable too if new information is being presented that is beneficial to the topic, especially a topic like this one. The OP was not a problem related inquiry that has a timeline for responses. This particular topic can benefit from unconsidered or new information, as in another God of War game or new fight in Bleach. Why would you negative rep me for that, and not even consider the points I made, several of which were new points to the thread? 

Second, no, I've never necro'd any other thread on this forum.  I don't know what you're referring to.

Third, I don't quite understand why you stopped at the bolded part. I actually meant manga but said Anime, but either way, the points still stand because the anime caught up to the events I mentioned. What point are you making?

Devil Kings, in God of War 2, while Kratos is fighting the Colossus in the beginning, he infuses the Blade of Olympus with all of his godly power, empowering the blade but rendering him himself, mortal.  After he kills the colossus form the inside, he drops the blade and yells at the gods. The hand of the falling colossus smashes kratos, nearly killing him. He limps to the Blade of Olympus to retrieve his power from it when Zeus appears before him, grabs the blade, and stabs him through the torso with it. At the time, he is mortal because almost all of his power is in the blade.


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## Rene (Nov 7, 2010)

The only thing you were right on was speed. Since it isn't equalised Kratos would get blitzed and cut up, on the other hand, Kenpachi isn't equal to Kratos in strength, Kratos' feats shit all over Kenpachi's strength wise.

Also thread necroing is unneccesary, if you want to bring up new feats make a rematch in a new topic when you think enough new feats have been presented.

Also in the OBD we strictly use primary canon material for feats from a medium, which means the anime in the event of Bleach, even if it's caught up to the manga is invalid featswise when it contradicts the manga and filler isn't accounted for unless mentioned otherwise in the OP, so getting critisized for that comment is more than normal since it shows ignorance of the standard OBD assumptions.


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## YouCannotDenyMe (Nov 7, 2010)

I apologize for saying anime. I meant manga and mispoke. I mentioned that in my previous post.  Sorry about that. 

I don't really understand why I would make a new thread on the same exact topic when this thread is less than a year old. WHy would anybody respond to an identical thread that had been brought up earlier this year that they had already responded to?

With regards to brute strength, Kratos does have much better feats. Kenpachi, on the other hand, has demonstrated much more durability and resistance to damage. I would say Kenpachi has shown comparable or more impressive destructive power.

Also, I was right only about the speed? What about the durability Kenpachi has shown vs kratos? What about the fact that the Blade of Olympus seems so weak? Again, the blade with all of its power, plus Kratos' power, took Kratos several hits to even just destroy the Colossus, and didn't kill Kratos right away when Zeus stabbed him with it. What about Kenpachi's reaction time? Was that wrong?


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## Level7N00b (Nov 7, 2010)

YouCannotDenyMe said:


> First of all, don't tell me what to do. I'll respond to any thread I want. This thread is not really that old. *A within the year response is perfectly acceptable.* Older is acceptable too if new information is being presented that is beneficial to the topic, especially a topic like this one. The OP was not a problem related inquiry that has a timeline for responses. This particular topic can benefit from unconsidered or new information, as in another God of War game or new fight in Bleach. Why would you negative rep me for that, and not even consider the points I made, several of which were new points to the thread?
> 
> Second, no, I've never necro'd any other thread on this forum.  I don't know what you're referring to.
> 
> ...



No, it's not, especially when it's from almost a year ago.

And Kenpachi loses this fight.


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## BenTennyson (Nov 7, 2010)

Speed doesn't need to be equalized. Unless Kenpachi is faster than lightning (real lightning) then he isn't blitzing Kratos at all. (I can't wait for the expected attempt at rebuking this)

Cutting him up? Unless I'm mistaken about my knowledge of Bleach strength levels, that isn't happening, certainly not with any close to resembling ease. Kratos has only been pierced by people in his strength level or above it. (normal sized Zeus in GOW2 and God sized Ares in GOW1)

Seeing as Kratos has blocked slashes from Blade of Olympus in God of War 3--with his _bare hands_--while it swung by Zeus, Kenpachi will have a hard time hurting him at all. That isn't Kratos' only durability to high PSI rated damage either, I can elaborate on that later. 

A man that survives a point blank volcano eruption (while being inside of it no less) and is blown miles away by it and lands without a scratch...is not to be messed with.


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## Rene (Nov 7, 2010)

Wasn't there some problem with the Zeus' lightning speed thing?


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## YouCannotDenyMe (Nov 7, 2010)

Are you guys talking about the same lightning bolts that we get to use ingame? Those are not as fast as real lightning. Not even close. Those are like regular projectiles almost.  If Kratos could really dodge lightning then none of the monsters could ever touch him. Kratos gets hit all the time, in cinematics and ingame.  If Kratos could really dodge lightning, that would mean every monster that hits him in the game is capable of moving faster than lightning.  Kratos got pierced by a PILLAR, but he's faster than lightning?

With regard to Kratos being pierced, the game implies that Kratos could be killed by numerous monsters. Canon wise, he defeats all of them, but that doesn't mean they weren't strong enough to kill him, it just means he killed them without giving them a chance to kill him.  

What feats of strength did Zeus show in the game?  He really did not seem very strong.  He did very little.  Again, the Blade of Olympus itself is not particularly strong either. It should one-hit every non-god opponent. It does nothing of the sort. Kratos blocking it is unimpressive. Several minor opponents block the sword when you use it in the game.

Strength-wise, its difficult to compare the Bleach characters. I personally don't see Kenpachi having any difficulty cutting Kratos in half. I would say the top 6 Espada in Bleach are like gods in God of War.  In Bleach, the top espada have a spiritual pressure such that their presence weakens and stuns lesser beings. Stark's pressure killed lesser hollows.  No god in God of War demonstrates any such aura, ability, or presence. Not sure how exactly those translate.  I don't see any reason to think Kenpachi wouldn't be strong enough to kill Kratos though.

And this thread was never resolved, and can still clearly generate debate. But its unacceptable to revive the thread? Can you explain why?


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## Hoshino Rika (Nov 7, 2010)

Ok, remind me again how Kenpachi kills Kratos? 

You know, without him walking back out of hell?

In God Of War III, Kratos absorbed Hades's soul using his own weapon since this was the only way to kill him. If he did it any other way, Hades would have just gone to Hades.

Kratos is the new god of the underworld. He is pretty much unkillable by low tier characters like Kenpachi.

I notice this argument wasn't made before. Possibly because God Of War III wasn't out yet so thank you YouCannotDenyMe for bumping this thread and making this rape even harder.


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## BenTennyson (Nov 7, 2010)

I'll post more in-depth at a later time.

1. No. I'm talking about the in-game projectiles, all though they are every bit as real lightning as anything else associated with Zeus. Two: Fast people get tagged all the time. If he didn't, he would have no durability feats--Dante wouldn't either for example. Kratos has consistently demonstrated hypersonic feats, the lightning thing isn't an outlier. Three: The pillar thing is bunk because his frigging attention was elsewhere, you know, on Pandora's Box that he just exhaustively retrieved? Not to mention who would expect a pillar flying at sonic to low hypersonic speeds to come out of nowhere.

2. Not really. In canon he tanks a lot of things from various enemies in cutscenes. 

3. Strength wise Zeus is on par with Kratos, they have gone back and forth in tug of wars for the sword. Kratos has stopped Atlas from crushing him with his thumb and forefinger, Atlas who in the meanwhile was holding up the world with just 3 of his 4 hands. He also resisted being palm squashed by Cronos, who is near Atlas' league in strength.


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## SilverSavio (Nov 7, 2010)

YouCannotDenyMe said:


> -snip- Kratos got pierced by a PILLAR, but he's faster than lightning?
> -snip-



Just want to address this. That PILLAR was moving pretty damn fast and had the added advantage of coming out of nowhere from Kratos' perspective. Why would he have been alert for it? Doesn't negatively impact Kratos all that much, but does make me want to have Ares on my team for darts


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## YouCannotDenyMe (Nov 7, 2010)

What makes Kenpachi low tier? Kenpachi himself is invincible to low tier opponents.  Kratos was never invincible to any creature in the course of the game. All opponents dealt damage.  I know its a game and that is part of the game mechanics, but I don't see any other way to judge his durability. Given that he's not invincible, and can take damage from walking skeletons, why can Kenpachi not kill him? I don't know about the whole Hades thing, Hades doesn't exist in Bleach. Bleach has Hell, which is not guarded by Hades.  And Kratos didn't absorb Hercules, Helios, Poseidon, Hermes, Ares, Zeus, or any of the Titans' souls, yet none of them seem capable of returning. Why is that?


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## YouCannotDenyMe (Nov 7, 2010)

The pillar just seems like poor reaction time from Kratos. Sure his attention was elsewhere, but the pillar hit him from the front. He could see it. And it still got him.  And yea, Ares would be badass at darts for sure.

Kratos strength is goofy.  He can survive Cronos trying to crush him, but you have to pound on the buttons to get Kratos to lift a door or open a box. How?  Also, the Atlas thing is weird to me too. How can you lift the planet that you are on?

And what hypersonic feats has Kratos demonstrated?


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## BenTennyson (Nov 7, 2010)

I will answer your questions tomorrow probably. And no, the pillar thing is not a poor reaction example. Blame Kratos for his eyesight not being superhuman, and him being tired after climbing a mountain for three whole days with no rest, solving in-human puzzles and fighting wave after wave of enemies.


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## Hoshino Rika (Nov 7, 2010)

YouCannotDenyMe said:


> What makes Kenpachi low tier? Kenpachi himself is invincible to low tier opponents.  Kratos was never invincible to any creature in the course of the game. All opponents dealt damage.  I know its a game and that is part of the game mechanics, but I don't see any other way to judge his durability


Cutscenes. Him pushing back Atlas's fingers. Etc.



> . Given that he's not invincible, and can take damage from walking skeletons, why can Kenpachi not kill him? I don't know about the whole Hades thing, Hades doesn't exist in Bleach


Doesn't matter. Kratos, as lord of hell, just walks out. Or can you show me proof that he couldn't when the entire point of the soul of Hades was to allow Kratos the power to leave hell whenever he wanted?


> . Bleach has Hell, which is not guarded by Hades.


Kindly prove this.



> And Kratos didn't absorb Hercules, Helios, Poseidon, Hermes, Ares, Zeus, or any of the Titans' souls, yet none of them seem capable of returning. Why is that?


Only mortal souls go to Hades. God souls go to the Elyssian Fields. Hades has no power over those. That is the jurisdiction of the three judges.



> Kratos strength is goofy. He can survive Cronos trying to crush him, but you have to pound on the buttons to get Kratos to lift a door or open a box. How? Also, the Atlas thing is weird to me too. How can you lift the planet that you are on?


Suspension of disbelief. That's how their world works. It's Greek Mythology.


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## YouCannotDenyMe (Nov 7, 2010)

Alright. Tomorrow then.  I'm trying to do work but this debate is burning at me and I can't leave responses uncontested.  But Kenpachi has never shown fatigue. And Kratos was fighting a bunch of low level enemies on his way to Pandora's Box so he shouldn't have been all that tired.  And he can't see a giant pillar? If he really has literal lightning speed and reflexes, he should be able to dodge the pillar as soon as it touches him. At least as soon as it enters his field of vision, which should be when it flew into the temple. Even looking down it would have to enter his vision at some point because it hit him in the chest.  There's no way it could hit him in the chest without entering his field of view at some point, unless his eyes are closed.  So maybe he's fast enough to dodge it but too tired to do so. But given the low caliber of enemies he fought in the temple, he shouldn't be that tired. Either way, the pillar is a negative point for Kratos, either on durability, reaction time, or stamina, or all three.


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## BenTennyson (Nov 7, 2010)

It's ok bro, go cool yourself down. Believe me you aren't bringing up any points that aren't easily addressed or refuted.


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## YouCannotDenyMe (Nov 7, 2010)

Didn't Kratos destroy the three judges? Also, the Elyssian Fields are for the souls of the heroic and the virtuous. Not gods. 

Cutscenes do not prove Kratos to be invincible. Where does it seem like he doesn't take damage from his enemies?

Kratos can walk out of hell all he wants. I still say he loses everytime he battles Kenpachi.

BenTennyson, back at you.


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## Hoshino Rika (Nov 7, 2010)

YouCannotDenyMe said:


> Didn't Kratos destroy the three judges? Also, the Elyssian Fields are for the souls of the heroic and the virtuous. Not gods.


Because gods are not heroic and virtuous? Do you honestly think Kratos was THE GOOD GUY?


> Cutscenes do not prove Kratos to be invincible. Where does it seem like he doesn't take damage from his enemies?


When does Kratos ever get damaged in a cutscene except against Gods?


> Kratos can walk out of hell all he wants. I still say he loses everytime he battles Kenpachi.


Because Kenpachi can match a guy who could match a guy who could lift a planet amirite?


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## BenTennyson (Nov 7, 2010)

YouCannotDenyMe said:


> BenTennyson, back at you.



Unlikely. Going by the uncertain tone of your posts, you aren't particular up to speed with everything Kratos has done. I've seen all of his games to completion (minus the cellphone game) and am in the process of reading the official novel. 

Whether Kenpachi wins or not in the end, is another matter, it's simply that you aren't completely aware about Kratos' capabilities and are trying to lowball his placement with a completely justifiable context/moment from the very *first* game.


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## YouCannotDenyMe (Nov 7, 2010)

BenTennyson, whether Kenpachi wins or not is not another matter. It is the matter.  It is the entire topic of discussion, into which each opponents capabilities come into play.  But the topic is who wins the fight.  That moment from the very first game, if you are referring to the pillar, is a negative point of debate for Kratos. You haven't shown how it could be otherwise, where I explained my reasoning as to why it was negative for him. I played through God of War I, II, and III to completion. My uncertainty has to do with either points I forgot or stuff that may have happened in other God of War titles outside of those three primary ones. 

You don't seem to be completely aware of Kenpachi's capabilities, and your tone suggests you are backing off of your initial assertion as to the winner of this match. Good move.

Hoshiko,  Elyssian fields are for heroic and virtuous MEN.  Not gods. Greek gods never died.  

Lifting a planet shows strength. It does not show resistance to damage, nor striking power, especially given the completely isometric nature of holding the planet.  

With regards to the cutscenes showing or not showing damage, it seems a little ambiguous. Does he really go though the entire game without receiving a single wound from the lesser enemies, even though as you play the game all monsters deal damage?  You also don't see any damage on Kratos after his battle with Ares. Does that mean he defeated Ares without taking a single wounding hit?  I think the cutscenes do not show the complete story, so we have to take the game into account.


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## Hoshino Rika (Nov 7, 2010)

Except they died here.

Lifting power can be translated in strength.

Ambiguous, sure. But who cares. Kenpachi can't kill KRatos.


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## YouCannotDenyMe (Nov 7, 2010)

Lifting power cannot be translated directly to striking power. They are different movements.  The hardest striker in the world is not the heaviest lifter in the world.  

The gods died in this series, but the point was about why they didn't seem to be able to return from death where Kratos could.  There does not seem to be a viable explanation, and its not happened before so we can't reference Greek mythology.  Kratos has returned from Hades at less than full god mode power.  Zeus should at least be able to do that, as powerful as he is.  Even Athena seems to have some ability to transcend death.  Its very unclear why the other gods don't come back. And given the sloppy treatment of other issues in the series, it is probably just a plot hole, or will be resolved later.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Nov 8, 2010)

Kenpachi would be absolutely _thrilled_ if he killed Kratos only to watch him come back from the dead to fight some more. This fight would be heaven for him even if it ended with Kratos brutally murdering him.

Just saying.


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## YouCannotDenyMe (Nov 8, 2010)

Its looking pretty clear now that this forum really dislikes thread revival.  I was unaware it would be such a serious issue.  Does this mean I really should have started a new, identical thread, like one of the other posters suggested? Why such frowning on revival if the issue was never resolved?

Game mechanics damage is interesting. It doesn't make complete sense to me to debate a game character's capabilities but ignore the mechanics of the game that created him.  How do we decide that the videos are canon but the gameplay is not?  It does make sense what you say, because as powerful as he is, he shouldn't be vulnerable to low level attacks during gameplay. 

 The problem is that he could just be really powerful but not particularly durable, so he makes it through by killing everybody and not really getting hit that much.  So which is it, is he really durable and really tanks a lot of damage throughout the game, just as the player does when he plays it?  Or does he make it through the story by dominating everybody and not taking many hits at all, except for those seen in cinematics? If we accept that he is durable like is shown during gameplay, we must also accept that low tier enemies deal damage to him, and therefor Kenpachi is easily capable of dealing mortal damage. If we accept that his durability is shown ONLY in cinematics, it still seems that he is really not that damage resistant because torso piercing attacks killed him twice. Those were the only hits we get to see, that I remember.  

Now both of the characters that pierced him were god level, so its hard to judge based on that alone. But, Kratos was able to barehanded block the Blade of Olympus swung by Zeus at the end of God of War III, so how powerful can it possibly be?  If that blade is really powerful, and Kratos is just really that much stronger than Zeus that he can block a powerful blade with his bare hands, then why was it so difficult for him to beat Zeus in the first place?  It seems more like they were both of comparable strength, but that the sword itself is not particularly powerful.  It plays out like two strong guys fighting with a stick, kinda. 

In all seriousness, the strength of the gods and titans is the most ambiguous and debatable here.  None of the non-kratos characters really performed any impressive feats.  

Emporer, what about Ares? He was killed long before Hades was absorbed, and he never returned.  Secondly, its unclear whether slain gods even go to Hades. 

Is it really still up for debate whether Kenpachi is strong enough to kill Kratos?


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## ChINaMaN1472 (Nov 8, 2010)

YouCannotDenyMe said:


> Game mechanics damage is interesting. *It doesn't make complete sense to me to debate a game character's capabilities but ignore the mechanics of the game that created him.  *How do we decide that the videos are canon but the gameplay is not?  It does make sense what you say, because as powerful as he is, he shouldn't be vulnerable to low level attacks during gameplay.



Sure it does.  Because gameplay mechanics are designed to be used based around the user, not the story.

Kratos can beat gods, yet he can't destroy simple walls or pillars?  

Akuma, from Street Fighter, can smash through a submarine and break islands in cinematics, yet can't damage his surroundings in gameplay.

What about games with guns?  About 99% of games with guns don't allow you to damage walls, even with rocket launchers.

But cinematics tell the story the way it's supposed to happen.


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## YouCannotDenyMe (Nov 8, 2010)

I like your point.  It leaves us with much less to work with though.  The cinematics didn't show any major battles beginning to end.  It also takes out some of kratos' feats, like resisting being crushed by Cronos.

Are you saying Kratos only takes damage from gods?


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## Tranquil Fury (Nov 8, 2010)

Gameplay mechanics sometimes underplay or overplay a character. We don't use them to quantify the level of an ability. We use actual feats, reliable character statements, powerscaling, info from omniscient narration and word of god provided no contradictions exist.

Kratos does canonically fight Zeus who uses actual lightning, he does encounter Atlas canonically and face him amongst others. Kratos can be injured by anyone with comparable feats to him or the gods of the game, whether they are called Gods or not in their verse is irrelevant.

Stop complaining because gameplay mechanics are ignored, if a character has 98% gameplay mechanics only then we should'nt use them to begin with in the OBD. Kratos, Dante, KOS-MOS, Id etc are examples of characters from games that have actual feats. None of that Sephiroth's Supernova attack happening in gameplay but ignoring the planet still being there or how he does it many times in gameplay. Things like reduce HP to 1 like Fallen one by Kefka from FF VI don't count either though his actual feats like rearranging continents do.


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## Shoddragon (Nov 8, 2010)

the only time game mechanics are really used are in special case games like fallout 3/fallout new vegas since there are no actual cutscenes/cinematics to honestly do anything from. so we somewhat use what they show ingame, some statements maybe, some of the obvious quantifiable elements (laser weapons in fallout move a tlightspeed as an example).

as was said, gameplay in general for MOST games undercuts or overplays characters. a perfect example is Akuma from street fighter. an already used example but the guy goes around flinging submarines and destroying islands with mere punches yet does nothing in gameplay like that.


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## YouCannotDenyMe (Nov 8, 2010)

More good points to consider.  I don't see where Kratos fights Atlas though. And when does he dodge lightning? I don't remember seeing those.

In general, we can only use cutscenes, narration, and cinematics in this discussion for Kratos? Those seem to be the only non-gameplay feats we could get for him.


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## Tranquil Fury (Nov 8, 2010)

Are you implying Zeus never used any lightning against Kratos? That makes no sense. Kratos does encounter Atlas, GOW 2 makes that blatant. Yeah cutscene feats, narration, statements about his power, powerscaling him from his battles and any secondary canon about his powers counts.


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## YouCannotDenyMe (Nov 8, 2010)

I wasn't implying that Zeus didn't use lightning.  I wanted to refresh where that happened because I didn't remember it. Another poster said Kratos was able to dodge lightning, which would be a big positive for him in this match. I don't recall that actually happening though. So the question is, where does Kratos dodge lightning? Not, does Zeus use lightning against Kratos? 

I see where Kratos encounters Atlas, but I don't see how that encounter gives information about Kratos' capabilities.  There is a part where Kratos resists being crushed, but that scene is an interactive cut scene. Does that count? Also,  Atlas didn't seem to be entirely set on crushing him, so the amount of strength he was using is a little vague.  He looks to be toying with Kratos.


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## Hoshino Rika (Nov 8, 2010)

One of the easiest examples of gameplay and story segregation is the final battle of Final Fantasy VII in which Sephiroth can make the sun go supernova and destroy the same planets several times.

Not to mention, if he could do that supernova attack, it would completely invalidate his entire Meteor plan.


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## Tranquil Fury (Nov 8, 2010)

Kratos does not dodge lightning in a cutscene but his reactions are there, he did fight Zeus who uses such due to it being the element under his command, God of thunder afterall. Kratos can't fight Zeus without being able to atleast react to his attacks. There's always him having the boots of Hermes which he took after beating Hermes. Kenpachi himself is not a speedster to begin with he's a tank much like Kratos. Yes Kratos resisting Atlas's finger counts as a strength feat, it was a finger but considering how strong Atlas is even a serious finger crush means a lot here which Kratos resisted.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-jRbOoGKuo[/YOUTUBE]

Hercules mentions the 12 labors, Kratos fights him. Ignoring the gameplay aspect it is made canonical that they do indeed fight with Kratos winning, leaving Hercules floating in a pool of water at the end of that fight. 

For skill beating Ares in GOW alone is good, having the power to hurt him through Pandora meant nothing if he could'nt handle Ares's powers and matched him in skill.


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## Narcissus (Nov 8, 2010)

YouCannotDenyMe said:


> Its looking pretty clear now that this forum really dislikes thread revival.  I was unaware it would be such a serious issue.  Does this mean I really should have started a new, identical thread, like one of the other posters suggested? Why such frowning on revival if the issue was never resolved?



Because the issue _was_ resolved. Because you are using argumentum ad verbosium to try and debate the topic with points that do not contribute to your argument. And because we just don't liked revived threads unless there is a good reason (which you don't have).

Kratos wins. Still.


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## Hoshino Rika (Nov 8, 2010)

> Hercules mentions the 12 labors, Kratos fights him. Ignoring the gameplay aspect it is made canonical that they do indeed fight with Kratos winning, leaving Hercules floating in a pool of water at the end of that fight.


The labours include him lifting the World for Atlas. Kratos overpowered Hercules and beat him.

Kratos can lift planets.


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## Kael Hyun (Nov 8, 2010)

Hoshino Rika said:


> The labours include him lifting the World for Atlas. Kratos overpowered Hercules and beat him.
> 
> Kratos can lift planets.



It was the Sky Atlas held up in the myth


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## Emperor Joker (Nov 8, 2010)

MyNindoForever said:


> It was the Sky Atlas held up in the myth



They're interchangable actually, as some translations say the world. either way it doesn't matter as holding up the full weight of the sky is still massivly impressive


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## Alita (Nov 8, 2010)

Kratos massacres.


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## cnorwood (Nov 8, 2010)

the spartan wins


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## Agmaster (Nov 8, 2010)

Kenpachi wins for being part of a decent storyline.


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## Francesco. (Nov 8, 2010)

Kratos rapes orribly.


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## YouCannotDenyMe (Nov 9, 2010)

The most difficult point of debate here is trying to translate damage and toughness between the two universes. 

God of War follows greek mythology somewhat.  If we use mythology as a yardstick to measure the power of the gods, we run into trouble. In the literature, gods are not incredibly powerful. Ares himself was actually wounded and driven back to Mount Olympus by a mortal Diomêdês, who was a great warrior, but completely mortal. He has no feats of strength. He is known as a god of bloodshed and slaughter, representing the most brutal and violent aspects of war, but mostly war between men. I've seen no accounts of Ares killing any monsters or defeating Titans.  Gods are much stronger than men, but Ares is clearly not invulnerable to damage from mortals.  

Now, we have to ask whether gods in God of War are classical gods, or have they been upscaled in power.  If they are classical gods, after refreshing on some classic literature, those gods were not as powerful as we thought.  Again, Ares was wounded my a human.  Kratos killing this Ares from classic literature is not that impressive. What is impressive is that Ares can die at all. There is no precedence for gods dying in literature. They couldn't even kill each other.

Hercules (i know he's not a god) in the game seems to be in line, capability-wise, with Hercules from literature, given his reference to the labors.  He was shown to have somewhat comparable strength to Atlas in literature because in one of his 12 labors he held up the heavens for Atlas in exchange for Atlas' assistance in retrieving the Apples of Hesperides.  This is the heavens, or the sky, not the earth itself.  Atlas was holding the earth and sky away from each other.  Though he doesn't hold up the planet, this is still an impressive feat of strength for Hercules.  His other labors, however, are unimpressive relative to Kratos and Kenpachi, including killing a hydra, killing a lion whose pelt could not be pierced with arrows, and a capturing a giant boar. He also injured Hades and wrestled Cerebrus.  Given these feats, Kratos defeating Hercules seems less impressive than Kratos killing Ares.  The battle between them does not imply that Kratos is as strong or stronger than Hercules either. In their battle, Kratos only seems to overpower Hercules during gameplay. The cutscenes don't imply Kratos overpowering him. There's no evidence here that Kratos or Hercules can lift planets, or that any of the gods can actually lift planets.

Zeus, the strongest of the gods, was also the god of sky and weather. He is armed with thunder and lightning. His feats include defeating the Titans, flooding the entire planet, and killing a hundred headed beast named Typheous that tried to capture heaven. If Kratos defeated Zeus, he must be able to deal with Zeus' lightning somehow. Whether or not he dodges it is debatable. How powerful is this lightning though? In literature, it seems to be real lightning. If so, Kratos must be strong enough to be able to withstand the lightning, strong and quick enough to deflect it, or quick enough to dodge it. Its unclear which of the three.

The problem should be more apparent now. The gods of literature, are not really that powerful.  If the gods in God of War, are the gods of literature, there is no contest.  If the gods have been upscaled in power, we need to measure how powerful they are, presumably using ingame feats.  

Ares, for example, tosses a large pillar...

So, as I see it, the questions on the table right now, are these: Are the gods in God of War equal in power to the gods of greek mythology? If they are stronger than their classic counterparts, how much stronger are they, and how can we prove this?

Also:


Narcissus said:


> Because the issue _was_ resolved. Because you are using argumentum ad verbosium to try and debate the topic with points that do not contribute to your argument. And because we just don't liked revived threads unless there is a good reason (which you don't have).
> 
> Kratos wins. Still.



Where did I ever make points that don't contribute to the argument?


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## Kael Hyun (Nov 9, 2010)

Agmaster said:


> Kenpachi wins for being part of a decent storyline.



 No.


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## ChINaMaN1472 (Nov 9, 2010)

YouCannotDenyMe said:


> In the literature, gods are not incredibly powerful.



The literature of Greek mythology has nothing to do with this thread.  It doesn't matter what the original Greek mythology said, it matters what the was done canonically in the game.

Kratos doesn't exist in Greek mythology literature.  He doesn't fight the gods of Greek mythology literature.  He fights the gods of Greek mythology in the game.

We take what was shown in the game and use what we have for the arguments.


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## YouCannotDenyMe (Nov 9, 2010)

ChINaMaN1472 said:


> The literature of Greek mythology has nothing to do with this thread.  It doesn't matter what the original Greek mythology said, it matters what the was done canonically in the game.
> 
> Kratos doesn't exist in Greek mythology literature.  He doesn't fight the gods of Greek mythology literature.  He fights the gods of Greek mythology in the game.
> 
> We take what was shown in the game and use what we have for the arguments.



There's very little to go off of from the game alone.

Anyway, one of the two questions posed revolved around characterizing the gods strength based on what was strictly in the game.  Why don't you respond to the points made?  Or maybe offer some instances from the game that help characterize the gods strength.


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## Narcissus (Nov 9, 2010)

YouCannotDenyMe said:


> In the literature, gods are not incredibly powerful.



Except they are. The one example you gae is rubbish when the gods of Greek mythology can do almost anything they please to humans. And we are not dealing with the myths anyway.


> Where did I ever make points that don't contribute to the argument?



Try every post. Nothing you've said has changed the outcome. It's just been long-winded tripe. Kratos has various methods with which to kill Kenpachi, as it's already been pointed out before.


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## Hoshino Rika (Nov 9, 2010)

ChINaMaN1472 said:


> The literature of Greek mythology has nothing to do with this thread.  It doesn't matter what the original Greek mythology said, it matters what the was done canonically in the game.
> 
> Kratos doesn't exist in Greek mythology literature.  He doesn't fight the gods of Greek mythology literature.  He fights the gods of Greek mythology in the game.
> 
> We take what was shown in the game and use what we have for the arguments.



The point is that Hercules in game mentions the 12 labours. In doing so, he confirms that they did happen in the game verse. This means he did lift the planet from Atlas's shoulders for a while. Kratos overpowered Hercules so Kratos could do the same.


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## Emperor Joker (Nov 9, 2010)

YouCannotDenyMe said:


> The problem should be more apparent now. *The gods of literature, are not really that powerful*.  If the gods in God of War, are the gods of literature, there is no contest.  If the gods have been upscaled in power, we need to measure how powerful they are, presumably using ingame feats.



Um...no if anything they've been nerfed in God of War...Poseiden once dropped an island on somebody in the myth, and Zues dropped an entire mountain on Typhon just to seal him away...this is after a fight that caused earthquakes and volcanos to erupt...let's not forget Ares turning into a comet (at least I think it was a comet) and racing acrosss the world


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## Narcissus (Nov 9, 2010)

Honestly, asserting the god of mythology are not powerful... what stupid nonsense.


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## YouCannotDenyMe (Nov 9, 2010)

Narcissus. Can you make or respond to specific points instead of generalizations? All you're doing is insulting points of debate without providing any reasoning.  

Hoshino, Atlas did not hold up the planet. Hercules did not hold up the planet.  They both held the sky away from the earth. That is not lifting a planet.  It is still powerful, but it is not the same thing. Kratos also did not overpower Hercules strength-wise. The instances where Kratos pushes him back are ingame, not cutscene or cinematic. In the cinematic he just beats the crap out of him.

The gods of literature being able to do anything they please to humans means very little with regard to Kenpachi.  

Fights that cause earthquakes and tsunamis on earth are feats within the capabilities of some Bleach captains, who are not even allowed to fight in the real world without limiters or within a protective barrier.

Zeus did drop Mount Edna on Typhon. That shows a lot of strength. Would that same mountain trap Kenpachi? Questionable. I say no.  

There still doesn't seem to be a consensus on how powerful Zeus' lightning is in literature or ingame, though the feeling I get from literature is that it is regular lightning.  

When I said the gods of literature weren't that powerful, I meant in terms of higher tier Bleach characters.  The gods may have better feats of strength, but pure destructive power is still debatable.  Resistance to damage is still highly debatable. Though the greek gods can't actually die, there are instances where some of them are wounded by non-gods.

HOWEVER, these are secondary issues to the thread, as Chinaman pointed out. They can still be debated for sake of accuracy.  But the more important questions are what feats of strength and power are demonstrated by the gods in the game?  Once we quantify their power levels, it will help quantify Krato's resistance to damage, given that most of the cutscenes show his wounds coming from fighting gods.  We should also look at the damage resistance of the gods and titans themselves, as that would help quantify Kratos' damage output (as he shows very little environment destruction, unless I missed something).  What power and destructive force have the gods shown in the game? Ares threw a large pillar, one of the Titans was carrying a large temple around, I know there are some others.  

I ask these questions because I challenge the demonstrated power, toughness, speed, and skill, of the gods from the game. I don't think there is enough game evidence to really prove they are so powerful.

On a secondary note, I challenge that the classic gods are powerful enough to defeat Kenpachi either.  But answering the questions posed should quantify the issues of this discussion more concretely


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## Shock Therapy (Nov 9, 2010)

^ Baseless assumptions everywhere.


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## Narcissus (Nov 9, 2010)

YouCannotDenyMe said:


> Narcissus. Can you make or respond to specific points instead of generalizations? All you're doing is insulting points of debate without providing any reasoning.



Because you are arguing with argumentum ad verbosium to try and win this debate. I provided reasons why Kratos would win before you bumped the thread with your fallacious posts.


> Zeus did drop Mount Edna on Typhon. That shows a lot of strength. Would that same mountain trap Kenpachi? Questionable. I say no.



And you're wrong. This would kill Kenpachi.


> When I said the gods of literature weren't that powerful, I meant in terms of higher tier Bleach characters.  The gods may have better feats of strength, but pure destructive power is still debatable.  Resistance to damage is still highly debatable. Though the greek gods can't actually die, there are instances where some of them are wounded by non-gods.



Or the gods wouldn't waste their time and just turn them into cattle.

Kratos has reacted to Zeus' lightning, which is natural. so he has more than enough speed to deal with Kenpahi, as well a an extensive list of powers that he can attack with. Such as one of the Gorgon's heads, which will turn Kenpachi to stone.


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## Level7N00b (Nov 9, 2010)

Doubting that the real gods couldn't defeat Kenpachi? Mucho wanko.


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## BenTennyson (Nov 9, 2010)

I have been too busy with courses to deliver a massive point by point post as I usually would, so I'm just going to sum up a couple of reactions Kratos has.

-Blocked a lightning bolt from Zeus in a non-optional QTE. All lightning related to Zeus is actual lightning speed based on his status and abilities. (For one, in the official novel he even changed the weather patterns of entire regions just by _breathing_)

--Reacted to what I can only term as a 'lightning bullet' from Fear Zeus after he fired it.

-Blocked a point blank death explosion from Persephone. The explosion could have been up to Mach 30, and going by how violent and large it was, it probably was. (even mere c4 can detonate anywhere from 8000-9000 meters/sec.)

-Reacted to one Poseidon's leviathans, which I (roughly) calc'd at Mach 30 in one scene.

-Hermes himself was able to run up from the horizon in an instant and fill six goblets with wine at about the same time, meaning he finished doing it before the wine finished falling into any of the 6 goblets. This was in the comic by the way. Which is also canon.
Several gods were present during this and they were all able to perceive Hermes doing this. Hermes' feat was casual by the way.

-God reaction time: Artemis in the novel was shown shooting an arrow that travelled 'swifter than lightning' to give warning to Ares, and before it ever hit the ground, she pulled out another arrow and had it readied to fire.


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## Emperor Joker (Nov 9, 2010)

YouCannotDenyMe said:


> Narcissus. Can you make or respond to specific points instead of generalizations? All you're doing is insulting points of debate without providing any reasoning.
> 
> *Hoshino, Atlas did not hold up the planet. Hercules did not hold up the planet.  They both held the sky away from the earth*. *That is not lifting a planet*.  It is still powerful, but it is not the same thing. Kratos also did not overpower Hercules strength-wise. The instances where Kratos pushes him back are ingame, not cutscene or cinematic. In the cinematic he just beats the crap out of him.
> 
> ...



The earth and the sky are interchangable there have been translations that have said both. and yes it is a strength feat...the sky is a physical object in greek myth

No Mt. Etna would squash Kenpachi like the insignificent bug he is. he doesn't have the durability to tank somebody dropping a fucking mountain on him

Yes in those cases the people hurting them were either demi-gods or somebody who was being amped by supernatural means

and screw physical strength Kenpachi has no defence if they decide to transmute him into a harmless animal


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## cnorwood (Nov 9, 2010)

6 pages huh?


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## YouCannotDenyMe (Nov 9, 2010)

Narcissus. Why do you say the mountain will kill Kenpachi? What is your specific evidence?  What game evidence shows that the gods can change anybody to cattle? How did Kratos react to the lightning? Did he dodge, block, or tank? Where can we see this?  The power of the gorgon heads are never shown, to my knowledge, in any of the cutscenes or cinematics.  What tier of enemy can they freeze?  Real lightning, is powerful. Normal people have also survived lightning strikes. Based on this, it doesn't seem like this level of attack will have any effect on Kenpachi.

Ben Tennyson: Those feats come from the book?  How do you think Persephone's death mask explosion might compare to cero from one of the top 6 espada? This is out of curiosity. Those feats are impressive.

Emperor: The earth and sky are not interchangeable.  The depictions of Atlas holding a globe is not a globe, it is a celestial sphere that represents the heavens. He never lifts the planet. He is holding up the sky. The celestial sphere caused a misconception that he holds the planet.  I don't know what Atlas is holding in the game.  It looks more like a planet than a celestial sphere. Either way it is still a strength feat.  And Hercules was able to hold the sky as well. In the game cutscenes and cinematics, however,  Kratos is never shown to overpower Hercules in a match of strength.  

RawRaw: Which specific assumptions are baseless?


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## Emperor Joker (Nov 9, 2010)

YouCannotDenyMe said:


> Narcissus. *Why do you say the mountain will kill Kenpachi? What is your specific evidence*?  What game evidence shows that the gods can change anybody to cattle? How did Kratos react to the lightning? Did he dodge, block, or tank? Where can we see this?  The power of the gorgon heads are never shown, to my knowledge, in any of the cutscenes or cinematics.  What tier of enemy can they freeze?  Real lightning, is powerful. Normal people have also survived lightning strikes. Based on this, it doesn't seem like this level of attack will have any effect on Kenpachi.
> 
> Ben Tennyson: Those feats come from the book?  How do you think Persephone's death mask explosion might compare to cero from one of the top 6 espada? This is out of curiosity. Those feats are impressive.
> 
> ...




I'll throw this question right back at you...what makes you think he can survive having a mountain dropped on him...he's not shown the durability needed to survive something as big and as heavy as a freaking mountain falling down on him


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## Narcissus (Nov 9, 2010)

YouCannotDenyMe said:


> Narcissus. Why do you say the mountain will kill Kenpachi? What is your specific evidence?



It's your burden of proof to show that Kenpachi can survive having a mountain dropped on him.


> What game evidence shows that the gods can change anybody to cattle?




I am referring to mythology. And this is why you should not have brought it up, because you are getting things confused and making yourself look like a fool.


> How did Kratos react to the lightning? Did he dodge, block, or tank?



He has blocked and dodged it.


> The power of the gorgon heads are never shown, to my knowledge, in any of the cutscenes or cinematics.  What tier of enemy can they freeze?



Uh, we already know what the gorgon heads do. Now you need evidence that Kenpachi has resistance to transmutation. Otherwise, he gets turned to stone.


> Real lightning, is powerful. Normal people have also survived lightning strikes. Based on this, it doesn't seem like this level of attack will have any effect on Kenpachi.



Terrible argument. Zeus' lightning could hurt the gods. And here it's the speed that matters anyway, as it shows that Kratos won't be getting tagged by Kenpachi. In addition, he has his other abilities which he can spam.


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## YouCannotDenyMe (Nov 9, 2010)

Narcissus. Real lightning is real lightning. If we agreed that the lightning Zeus wields is regular lightning, and it hurts the gods, it means that the gods are vulnerable to regular lightning. The same regular lightning that normal people have survived. This would be a point defending that gods are not so resistant to damage.  

And we all recognize that Kratos dealt with lightning somehow, but  how? You say he dodges and blocks. Where does this happen? You are using this speed feat to say he's too fast for Kenpachi but we don't see him dodge lightning. Though we know he has to have dealt with the lightning, doesn't seem fair to not know whether he was fast enough to dodge it, but then use his dodging as reasoning to say Kenpachi wouldn't hit him.

Gorgons heads freeze people. But the question is how and what level of enemy they can freeze. I bring that up because in Bleach, certain kido, like poisons and binding spells, can be countered simply by greater reiatsu. If higher level characters in God of War can't be frozen by gorgon heads, there is some precedence for resistance to freezing. The equivalent to this type of resistance in Bleach would be high levels of reiatsu.  If all characters in God of War are vulnerable to freezing, then there is no way to defend resistance and Kenpachi can be frozen. 

Resistance to transmutation has the same argument, given that it is a magic-like power.  Depending on the caliber of beings that can be transmuted, there may be a case for resistance here as well. I did confuse and think you were talking about the game.  That is my fault.


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## cnorwood (Nov 9, 2010)

again 6 pages huh? gorgon head, chaos blades, hercules gauntlets, etc, etc kenpachi has no chance. if kratos can out strength a titan what makes you think he wont rip kenpachi apart


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## Shock Therapy (Nov 9, 2010)

he won't rip kenpachi apart. he'll just slice and dice him like all the other foddor


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## Level7N00b (Nov 9, 2010)

So ignoring the fact that this shouldn't have been necro'd in the first place, we all agree that Kenpachi really loses here, right?


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## cnorwood (Nov 9, 2010)

rawrawraw said:


> he won't rip kenpachi apart. he'll just slice and dice him like all the other foddor



kratos goes behind him and presses o, stabs kenny, rips him apart and then throws him. 
/thread


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## cnorwood (Nov 9, 2010)

i didnt even know this was necroed the first time. somebody locks this


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## Level7N00b (Nov 9, 2010)

Yes, this thread is from January.


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## Narcissus (Nov 10, 2010)

YouCannotDenyMe said:


> Narcissus. Real lightning is real lightning. If we agreed that the lightning Zeus wields is regular lightning, and it hurts the gods, it means that the gods are vulnerable to regular lightning. The same regular lightning that normal people have survived. This would be a point defending that gods are not so resistant to damage.



No, not really. To begin with, lightning is not "normal damage." Next, the gods cannot suffer any real damage from humans, as they are immortal. There is also no evidence that Bleach characters would survive or tank a lightning strike, so your point has no meaning here.


> And we all recognize that Kratos dealt with lightning somehow, but  how? You say he dodges and blocks. Where does this happen? You are using this speed feat to say he's too fast for Kenpachi but we don't see him dodge lightning. Though we know he has to have dealt with the lightning, doesn't seem fair to not know whether he was fast enough to dodge it, but then use his dodging as reasoning to say Kenpachi wouldn't hit him.



It doesn't matter whether it seems fair or not. If he can react to lightning (which he has), then Kenpachi is not going to hit him.


> Gorgons heads freeze people. But the question is how and what level of enemy they can freeze. I bring that up because in Bleach, certain kido, like poisons and binding spells, can be countered simply by greater reiatsu. If higher level characters in God of War can't be frozen by gorgon heads, there is some precedence for resistance to freezing. The equivalent to this type of resistance in Bleach would be high levels of reiatsu.  If all characters in God of War are vulnerable to freezing, then there is no way to defend resistance and Kenpachi can be frozen.



So basically, you have no evidence that Kenpachi can resist transmutation. Concession accepted.


> Resistance to transmutation has the same argument, given that it is a magic-like power.  Depending on the caliber of beings that can be transmuted, there may be a case for resistance here as well. I did confuse and think you were talking about the game.  That is my fault.



They are not the same. You need actual scans of him resisting transmutation, or he is getting turned to stone. It's basic burden of proof.


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## Hoshino Rika (Nov 10, 2010)

> Hoshino, *Atlas did not hold up the planet.* Hercules did not hold up the planet. They both held the sky away from the earth. That is not lifting a planet. It is still powerful, but it is not the same thing. Kratos also did not overpower Hercules strength-wise. The instances where Kratos pushes him back are ingame, not cutscene or cinematic. In the cinematic he just beats the crap out of him.


*googles Atlas*
*First 5 images*







One of the variations on this story has Atlus holding the world on his shoulders. God Of War used this variation as shown several times in GoW 2, 3 and Chains.

Hercules mentions the 12 labours where he took over for Atlas for a while. Kratos overpowered him. Kratos can push Hercules back during the fight and defend against his attacks. The creators mentioned the labours on purpose. The creators want Kratos to be this strong. Kratos can lift planets. Your opinion is void.

Kratos can lift (according to ) 6,000,000,000,000 ,000,000,000,000 (6E+24) kilograms. Show Kenpachi taking a punch of this magnitude.



> Fights that cause earthquakes and tsunamis on earth are feats within the capabilities of some Bleach captains, who are not even allowed to fight in the real world without limiters or within a protective barrier.
> 
> Zeus did drop Mount Edna on Typhon. That shows a lot of strength. Would that same mountain trap Kenpachi? Questionable. I say no.


Kindly show me a captain causing an eartquake, a tsunami, or surviving a mountain dropped on them.

You made the claim. Burden of proof. You have to prove it.


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## BenTennyson (Nov 10, 2010)

^Just one thing, God of War-verse's Earth seems to be flat, as the Island of Creation is said to near the 'edge of the world'. Still heavy as hell though.

And yeah, Hercules is confirmed to have held up Atlas' burden of the world for a brief time in the official novel.


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## Tranquil Fury (Nov 10, 2010)

No Captain level has made a tsunami or caused an Earthquake especially not the type which can wreck cities. The limiter thing is to reduce damage caused to buildings and the surroundings which is a far cry from what Kratos is used too. No captain has survived a mountain dropped on them, they've never even had a mountain dropped on them. All captains are not equal and have different powers as well, stop the association fallacy.

Please go with Kenpachi's own feats,the most collateral he's caused was destroying some buildings in his SS clash with Ichigo. Kratos is physically more powerful than Kenpachi, end of story he mauls Hercules in a cutscene for christ sake and had even Zeus scared of him. He beat Ares in GOW1, he has Hermes boots and other objects given to or taken from Greek gods. He's been the God of War himself, he runs into Olympians and Titans. 

Kenpachi's speed is unquantifiable, he's not even meant to be a speedster. Kratos could laugh at Kenpachi's building+ attacks when he can take hits from Hercules, he could rip off Kenpachi's arms if he chose to then smack him with them. Kenpachi would lose even with a speed advantage let alone the fact he has none here.


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## Hoshino Rika (Nov 10, 2010)

BenTennyson said:


> ^Just one thing, God of War-verse's Earth seems to be flat, as the Island of Creation is said to near the '*edge of the world*'. Still heavy as hell though.
> 
> And yeah, Hercules is confirmed to have held up Atlas' burden of the world for a brief time in the official novel.



Sound more like figurative speech like saying it's in the middle of nowhere (which probably would make it extradimensional). Did they actually show an edge?


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## BenTennyson (Nov 10, 2010)

They did not show an edge, but remember, Atlas brought Kratos back up to the surface by pushing his hand up through all the molten rock and such. So either Atlas is holding up the world from the crust up, or he's holding up an earth that is flat.


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## Hoshino Rika (Nov 10, 2010)

BenTennyson said:


> They did not show an edge, but remember, Atlas brought Kratos back up to the surface by pushing his hand up through all the molten rock and such. So either Atlas is holding up the world from the crust up, or he's holding up an earth that is flat.



Or Kratos needed to be on "top" of the world and Atlas just pushed his hand up through the entire planet. Which would be a very casual feat for someone of his power.


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## BenTennyson (Nov 10, 2010)

Well no, I mean it shows that the depth of the world is not so much that Atlas can't push his arm all the way through to the surface.

...Actually. Now that I think about it, Atlas' feat of strength, whether it's flat or not, becomes even more impressive than I thought it was. The Island of Creation is supposedly on the edge of the world. Atlas is holding up the earth from right under the Island of Creation! That means he's holding and balancing the damn earth up from the very outskirts of it--which is far harder than holding it from under the center. And it's possible that the depth of the Earth is much shallower on the margins than in the center anyway, which would explain Atlas' arm going all the way up through to the surface.

Also, Kratos is able to cut into large Haephestus produced chains. An example of how strong these chains are? They can keep Atlas tied to the world, stretch all the way from the top of Olympus down to the Underworld, and even be used to pull entire fucking islands (Steeds of time.) So yeah, Kratos can cut into chains that easily withstand billions of tons of stress.


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