# Strongest attack Yata Mirror can tank / repel?



## StickaStick (May 18, 2014)

Assume the mirror is being wielded by Itachi's Susanoo and Itachi is in a perfectly healthy state.

If the attack is a ranged attack assume it is used at a distance of 20m.


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## Cognitios (May 18, 2014)

Bijuudama Rasenshuriken
_Believe the hype, believe it_

*Spoiler*: __ 



 Probably Kirin


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## Bonly (May 18, 2014)

It can tank/repel the strongest jutsu in the manga, nothing can get past it.

**


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## Trojan (May 18, 2014)

The susanoo was completely destroyed by Kirin. So, the strongest it can tank is the Kirin, but it will be destroyed as well.


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## Ersa (May 18, 2014)

I'd say uncharged Bijuudama. I don't buy the repels everything hype but the intention is there and the author tried to show that through his databook and his own manga. It's also considered a divine power if you want to take Kishi's word for it :ignoramus

Doubtful Kirin is it's limit. Having Kirin bust the Mirror then making a character claim it's unbreakable is akin to Obito claiming the Sword of Nunboko was invincible after it got beaten by Senjutsu-PS sword. Kishimoto's manga may be going down the drain but the man isn't a retard which is some people seem to insinuate here .


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 18, 2014)

I'd have to say...Cho Odama Rasengan and KN4 level Bijudama.


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## tkpirate (May 18, 2014)

Kirin and any attack weaker than Kirin.


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## krolk88 (May 18, 2014)

Kirin was tanked by V1 Susanoo not V3 with Yata,Itachi barely had time to activate V1,I believe Krin wouldnt even damage regular V3,much less V3 ith Yata.

_Bijuu-dama_ clearly V1 Susanoo,later changes into->
_Bijuu-dama_ the difference is clear

That said,they hype is there and it'll never be proven wrong at this point of the manga + its canon,so i believe it can tank anything that cannot reach the back of susanoo aswell as the front.


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## IchLiebe (May 18, 2014)

8Tail Bijuu dama, Continous is overkill.

1 finger nukite

Rasenshuriken

Kirin

Mei's acid mist(would destroy the mirror)

plenty of others as well.


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## Trojan (May 18, 2014)

tkpirate said:


> Kirin and any attack *weaker *than Kirin.



do you mean stronger?


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## krolk88 (May 18, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> 8Tail Bijuu dama, Continous is overkill.
> 
> 1 finger nukite
> 
> ...



Every single thing you listed can be tanked by V3 Susanoo without yata,maybe except nukite...-_-


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 18, 2014)

krolk88 said:


> Every single thing you listed can be tanked by V3 Susanoo without yata,maybe except nukite...-_-


No, it can't. We've seen V3 Susano'o's limits. Biju Tail Swipes were strong enough to defeat a V3 Susano'o enhanced by Senjutsu. A weakened, Base Gai Hirudora attack took out Madara's V3 Susano'o. Tsunade's Punches were enough to stun a V3 Susano'o and Onoki wiped out 25 of them with a single Jinton. All attacks which are weaker than ONE Bijudama. And Itachi's Susano'o is far weaker, even in its V4 state compared to Madara's who has the top tier version (least until current Sasuke's came around).

Kroll88, please start reading up on No-Limits Fallacies and Hyperbole before debating here. We don't accept Itachi's Susano'o being invincible since it lacks the feats to back it up AND the fact of the matter it was pierced by Kirin.



krolk88 said:


> Kirin was tanked by V1 Susanoo not V3 with Yata,Itachi barely had time to activate V1,I believe Krin wouldnt even damage regular V3,much less V3 ith Yata.
> 
> _Bijuu-dama_ clearly V1 Susanoo,later changes into->
> _Bijuu-dama_ the difference is clear
> ...


The first link shows Susano'o _reforming_ after it had been destroyed.

Dude, we do not accept hyperbole. Itachi's Susano'o's Yata Mirror's _best feats_ are:


Yamata no Orochi Charge
String of explosive tags
Another string of explosive tags
Sasuke's uncharged Kusanagi

That's it. Those are Yata Mirro's _best feats._ Nothing even remotely shows he can block a senjutsu powered Rasenshuriken, KN6 Bijudama, Madara's Perfect Susano'o slash, Deva focused Shinra Tensei, Nagato's Chibaku Tensei, standard Bijudama from the Biju, Hashirama's Choju Kebetsu, Super Bijudama,even stronger Super Bijudama, V1 Juubi Laser AND Renzoku Bijudama, V2 Juubi Bijudama, V3 Juubi Tenpenchii, V4 Juubi Bijudama, Quadruple Obito Bijudama, Evening Elephant and its full five steps, Gai's Night Guy here, Senpo: Yoton Rasenshuriken, Madara's Chibaku Tensei, and finally Bijudama Rasenshuriken with Sasuke's new Perfect Susano'o sword swipe. Now...you're telling me these attacks Itachi's Yata Mirror can tank? Even if we allow Kirin to be 'blocked', its magnitudes weaker than even a Rasenshuriken. Seriously, don't buy into hype if its not _backed up_, that's hyperbole.


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## tkpirate (May 18, 2014)

Hussain said:


> do you mean stronger?



no i mean attacks that are weaker than Kirin.also it probably can tank attacks that are around same level as Kirin.


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## krolk88 (May 18, 2014)

@SuperSaiyaMan12

There's no panel showing V3 susanoo destroyed by kirin...all that is shown is itachi getting up covered by newly formed V1 Susanoo,show me the panel where its clear that itachi used V3 or it didnt happen.

"Hyperbole"-if something was *clearly* stated in the manga and has yet to be proven wrong...

Alright,V3 Susanoo loses against bijudama,thats true,you pointed it out so its not a matter to discuss,however by tanking i meant giving strong enough defence that the user wont die,not necessarily surviving the attack without damage.


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## ueharakk (May 18, 2014)

Sandaime raikage's body gets more hype than yaata, thus whatever breaks him breaks yaata as well.  IMO that or arbitrarily giving it durability based on V4 susanoo's durability would be the only two conclusions that don't involve either giving yaata its lowest limits or giving it no limits.

I'd say a direct hit from a standard bijuudama would probably break it.


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## krolk88 (May 18, 2014)

Sandaime's body was only claimed to be the strongest shield,while yata was claimed to be undestroyable and able to repel any kind of attack...no matter how strong a shield is,it can still be broken,it was claimed to be the strongest not the undestroyable so its clear yata has more hype there...


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## ueharakk (May 18, 2014)

krolk88 said:


> Sandaime's body was only claimed to be the strongest shield,while yata was claimed to be undestroyable and able to repel any kind of attack...no matter how strong a shield is,it can still be broken,it was claimed to be the strongest not the undestroyable so its clear yata has more hype there...



if *yaata is a shield*, then sandaime's body being claimed to be the strongest shield puts it above yaata.

*Sandaime's body was also stated to be able to withstand 'any' jutsu.*

And then unlike Yaata, Sandaime raikage actually gets put up against an extremely powerful attack and still lives up to its hype while the strongest thing yaata has been up against is a chain of paper bombs.

Sandaime raikage has more hype than yaata.


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## krolk88 (May 18, 2014)

ueharakk said:


> if *yaata is a shield*, then sandaime's body being claimed to be the strongest shield puts it above yaata.
> 
> *Sandaime's body was also stated to be able to withstand 'any' jutsu.*
> 
> ...



Yata is a reflective mirror,not a shield in a strict meaning of this word.That said i'll stop commenting on this thread because it leads to nowhere -_-.


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## Dr. White (May 18, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> No, it can't. We've seen V3 Susano'o's limits. Biju Tail Swipes were strong enough to defeat a V3 Susano'o enhanced by Senjutsu. A weakened, Base Gai Hirudora attack took out Madara's V3 Susano'o. Tsunade's Punches were enough to stun a V3 Susano'o and Onoki wiped out 25 of them with a single Jinton. All attacks which are weaker than ONE Bijudama. And Itachi's Susano'o is far weaker, even in its V4 state compared to Madara's who has the top tier version (least until current Sasuke's came around).


-Gai's hirudora was a regular hirudora, and we don't know if it was broken through.
-Onooki was being charged IIRC correctly and his Jinton was bigger than Mei's water dragon.
-Where was it stated that one Susano is more durable than the other? IPS and PS might be better than Itachi's V4, but that is it, and Itachi's weapons compensate for him not getting legged version/PS a bit.

Also Kirin did not destroy Yata. We have no clue which version Itachi tanked, and Yata would have not done much to Kirin but add regular susano shielding (see sasuke's susano shield) because it was natural lightning, not a chakra nature.


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## Garcher (May 18, 2014)

I think it was cleary stated that it blocks EVERYTHING

unless you prove via manga that it doesn't block everything, shut up. 


*Spoiler*: __ 




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Itachi solos.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 18, 2014)

krolk88 said:


> @SuperSaiyaMan12
> 
> There's no panel showing V3 susanoo destroyed by kirin...all that is shown is itachi getting up covered by newly formed V1 Susanoo,show me the panel where its clear that itachi used V3 or it didnt happen.


Except we've seen V3 Susano'o succumb to attacks far weaker than Kirin. Itachi getting up with a new V1 Susano'o means his Susano'o didn't survive regardless. 


> "Hyperbole"-if something was *clearly* stated in the manga and has yet to be proven wrong...





> Search Results
> 
> hy?per?bo?le
> hīˈpərbəlē/
> ...


Yata Mirror's claim is an exaggerated statement not to be taken literally. It has nothing to back it up. I've shown its best feats to you and they aren't impressive.


> Alright,V3 Susanoo loses against bijudama,thats true,you pointed it out so its not a matter to discuss,however by tanking i meant giving strong enough defence that the user wont die,not necessarily surviving the attack without damage.


V3 Susano'o loses to more than just Bijudama. The only Susano'o that can tank a standard one is Madara's and Sasuke's Perfect Susano'o.


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## kaminogan (May 18, 2014)

the only thing that can damage the yata would be those truth seeking orbs, since they can take away its reflection from existence,

EDIT: yata itself doesn't have to be durable, its that reflecting ability that makes it so defensive,


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## SubtleObscurantist (May 18, 2014)

Since I've never had any reason to doubt it's hype, I'm just going to go out there and said "any attack" _except_ an attack with a large enough AOE to contact Susano'o around Yata and powerful enough to take it out, which will rob the shield of it's anchor to the physical world.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 18, 2014)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> Since I've never had any reason to doubt it's hype, I'm just going to go out there and said "any attack" _except_ an attack with a large enough AOE to contact Susano'o around Yata and powerful enough to take it out, which will rob the shield of it's anchor to the physical world.


Other than its best feats not being remotely impressive?


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## dungsi27 (May 18, 2014)

I actually believe it can blocks almost every straight attacks, no matter how destructive & powerful it is (yes, I believe not even Madaras meteor could destroy the shield)

The things that you need to get pass the mirror is those "special" attacks, such as Omyoton,Kamui,Hakugeki,etc.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 18, 2014)

> NINJUTSU; KEKKEI GENKAI: Susanoo (Mysterious, All-Encompassing Assistance Ability*)
> User: Uchiha Itachi
> Offensive; Defensive; Close, Medium, Long ranges; Rank: none
> 
> ...



Bolded how the Yata Mirror actually WORKS. And not only that, it would depend on the chakra of the user too. Itachi's Yata Mirror can't tank high level jutsu or reflect it. Stop believing the hype-it hasn't lived up to it at all.


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## SubtleObscurantist (May 18, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Other than its best feats not being remotely impressive?



That doesn't give me any reason to doubt it, no. But it was introduced as the counterpart of the Totsuka no Tsurugi, which had the special gimmick of sealing "anything". And while Yata was never given an opportunity to shine, Totsuka has, and so far it has lived up to it's hype since it swallowed whole something of the size of Yamata no Orochi and Orochimaru's rather large chakra. It then proceeded to swallow Nagato. When he was channeling his chakra remotely through his Paths, Tendo alone had a chakra powerful enough to amaze Konoha's elite ANBU, so Nagato's full chakra likely sits on the level of Bijuu. Summoning Gedo Mazo is supposed to use so much chakra that it would kill an ordinary shinobi according to the databook after all but Nagato has no issue with it. He added a hefty chunk of Gyuki's chakra to that. Kisame absorbed six out of seven tails from Kirabi in V1 with Samehada, and then reduced V2 Kirabi to eight tails of V1 with a single swing as well, indicating that V2 Kirabi uses about 14 tails of Gyuki's chakra. In the dome, Kisame then absorbed the full amount of V2 Kirabi's chakra and Gyuki reported after that he was almost out of chakra after that. If you add it up, it comes out to Kirabi's V2 chakra being about half of Gyuki's total chakra, so Nagato with Gyuki's chakra probably has a chakra not too different than Gyuki's own. 

Now none of that adds up to a proof of anything pertaining to the upper limits of the Totsuka's power, but I wouldn't think it's parallel tool would be any less capable in it's own field, so I think it's perfectly fair to infer that Yata is as competent at doing what it does as the Totsuka is at it. And the Totsuka has accomplished enough that it's hype is completely believable to me, so I feel justified in transferring that to Yata no Kagami.


SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And not only that, it would depend on the chakra of the user too.



That's not what it says. The mirror is endowed with all elements and changes it's composition to respond to the attack. It doesn't say the user endows it with anything or that the user determines the response to the attack.


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## Rocky (May 18, 2014)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> That doesn't give me any reason to doubt it, no. But it was introduced as the counterpart of the Totsuka no Tsurugi, which had the special gimmick of sealing "anything". And while Yata was never given an opportunity to shine, Totsuka has, and so far it has lived up to it's hype..



I don't know if I agree with that logic.

Take Tsunade for example. Her Byakugo is said to make her immortal in battle, and so far, its hype has stood true. Does this mean Tsunade can chill at the epicenter of Obito's Quad-Bijūdama and live to tell the tale? Not in my opinion. I don't think those hyperbolic statements are meant to be taken literally.


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## FlamingRain (May 18, 2014)

The databook specifies that being unable to die in battle is the resolution behind the technique, iirc. It's cut off from the rest of the Jutsu's description (what it can actually do), which makes her extremely hard to kill because she can regrow anything, but not completely un killable. If she got hit by Obito's quad-_Bijūdama_ there wouldn't be any of Tsunade left to even be regenerated _from_ to begin with.


But the fact that Yata is having to seize elemental advantages (which have a finite degree of influence over a clash) means that it's playing the same force vs. durability match any other defense is, and not actually unbreakable (else it wouldn't need to bother shifting in the first place). Taking any attack is just the hyperbolic hearsay of someone with a batch of cabbage for a brain who didn't even recognize _Susano'o_ itself.


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## Turrin (May 18, 2014)

I've always considered Yata a Susano'o weapon and therefore I consider Yata's defensive properties proportional to the users. I'm sure Sasuke's S06P empowered Susano'o could block anything with it, but I struggle to see Itachi's Stage 4 Susano'o blocking Bijuudama-FRS and shit.

Edit: I think Yata probably has it's invincibility hype back from the days when Indra, Rikudo, Rikudo's bro, or Kaguya used it with their Susano'o. Their Yata-Mirror probably could block anything, but not Itachi's Stage-4. As for the statement about Itachi being invincible because of it, i'm sure it was true at the time and no ninja that was alive could kill Itachi while he used Stage-4 Susano'o with Totsuka + Yata Mirror. That's not to say that Itachi would beat anyone alive, but just that there was probably no one around that could break through Stage-4; though there were obviously Shinobi who'd have a chance to circumvent or outlast it. Anyway it was really when Kishi started to go into deceased ninja and current ninja becoming much stronger post-Uchiha brothers arc that we have examples of Shinobi that could plausibly bust Stage-4. This isn't to say that I think Itachi's Yata-Mirror is weak, in-fact I'd give it more credit than most, and say that I wouldn't be surprised if it could deflect certain Bijuu-Bombs. I just don't see it deflecting some of Hashirama, Madara's, Juubito's, etc... more powerful attacks.


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## Dr. White (May 18, 2014)

IIRC Obito took a TBB Rasengan to the face, and Madara's physical fan reflected one. I can see Itachi's top limit being around Bjuudama level. (small mountain - Mountain)


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## Turrin (May 18, 2014)

Dr. White said:


> IIRC Obito took a TBB Rasengan to the face, and Madara's physical fan reflected one. I can see Itachi's top limit being around Bjuudama level. (small mountain - Mountain)


Pretty much agree with this. If Madara's Fan is reflecting mini-Bijuu-dama i'd expect Yata Mirror to be able to reflect the Bijuu-dama of certain Bijuu. What i'm more interested in is Yagura's Mirror, I mean that actually does seem like it can block any attack.


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## Grimmjowsensei (May 18, 2014)

Everything we've seen so far.

Possibly one of the higher end moves from Sauce, Naruto or Madara would break it. We need to wait for another 30 chapters or so.


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## Lawrence777 (May 18, 2014)

It's at least blocking normal tbb imo


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## SSMG (May 18, 2014)

Night Guy would bend the space of impact and guy would "break through" the mirror like it did to Madaras staff.


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## SubtleObscurantist (May 18, 2014)

Rocky said:


> I don't know if I agree with that logic.
> 
> Take Tsunade for example. Her Byakugo is said to make her immortal in battle, and so far, its hype has stood true. Does this mean Tsunade can chill at the epicenter of Obito's Quad-Bijūdama and live to tell the tale? Not in my opinion. I don't think those hyperbolic statements are meant to be taken literally.



But it hasn't lived up to the hype except only in the sense she hasn't died. But it's not that she has shown no concern whatsoever about the possibility of dying with Byakugo. It's not as if Madara's Perfect Susano'o didn't awe her as much as the Kages who would certainly die against it. I don't think they are meant to be taken literally, no, but I got the impression that these weapons were meant to be have a truly extraordinary nature that have godly upwards limits befitting their hype. I should not be surprised, however, if the godly powers of the Rikudo could overcome Yata. They appear to have some sort of quasi divine origin and I have some inclination towards believing they were created by Hagoromo or Kaguya. Certainly it's more believable than thinking they are just an outgrowth of Itachi's Susano'o since we know that a) they aren't shared by other Susano'o users (I say this of Yata because it is clearly not the case for the Totsuka and they are a pair) and b) they pre-existed Itachi by Orochimaru's statements (and I trust him as a pretty knowledgeable source). 

(I am actually curious to see if Sasuke will find a way to call upon them now). And whatever line is drawn on Yata is more or less pure speculation since it's limits aren't tested and it's origins were never stated so I don't see anything inherently more reasonable in scaling it down. It's not like it would make a damn bit of difference against the fighters in the manga today who hit Susano'o from every side and demolish it without any regard for the mirror no matter how much it can do.


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## IchLiebe (May 18, 2014)

If you want to say that Itachi didn't use Yata Mirror to block Kirin, here it is:


Do you really believe that your king wouldn't resort to his strongest defense to block an attack that is made of pure lightning and try with skeletal Susanoo? No.

Itachi was prepping Susanoo before Kirin hit, that is why you see both of his MS active yet no Susanoo. He can prep it with both eyes open, but it takes time to prep it to its fullest stage. We can see this further hinted when in certain scenarios when he doesn't have time to prep full Susanoo, he can only manifest a part of Susanoo or start from skeletal form.

Acid Mist would eat through it, as well as any form of Susanoo...it already has the feats against Sasuke.


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (May 18, 2014)

Maybe a small BB. It damn sure isn't taking the higher level attacks we've see such as YRS, Madara's meteor, PS slashes, FRSTBB, Onoki's massive jinton, Shinsuusenju, etc, etc.


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## trance (May 18, 2014)

krolk88 said:


> "Hyperbole"-if something was *clearly* stated in the manga and has yet to be proven wrong...



Do you truly not know what a "hyperbole" is? 

It's a rhetorical figure of speech that deals with over exaggeration. For instance, Haku saying his movements in his mirrors being "lightspeed", pre-TS Gaara saying his ultimate defense is "as strong as diamond" or Gai having a "body of steel". Respectively, those are just fancy ways of saying Haku is very fast, Gaara's sand defense is very durable and Gai is very enduring and resilient.


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## Ersa (May 19, 2014)

Le Kishimoto drawing manga.

Gonna introduce legendary mirror.
Have Kirin bust it.
Then make character hype it as unbreakable.
Add it into my databook as well as a divine power that blocks everything.

:ignoramus

Gonna introduce Nunboko Sword.
Have Naruto break it.
Hype it as unbreakable...o-wait


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## Turrin (May 19, 2014)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> But it hasn't lived up to the hype except only in the sense she hasn't died. But it's not that she has shown no concern whatsoever about the possibility of dying with Byakugo. It's not as if Madara's Perfect Susano'o didn't awe her as much as the Kages who would certainly die against it. .


Let's be fair here. Being afraid of P-Susano'o doesn't really tell us if she could survive it's attacks with Byakugo or not, as Byakugo is limited by the amount of chakra Tsunade has, which was running low at that point, and even if she did survive she wouldn't be able to do anything to P-Susano'o offensively speaking and would still just get steam-rolled until her chakra runs out. 

As for living up to it's hype Tsunade was confident it would keep her alive against Uchiha Madara and it's lesser variant Gensis of Rebirth allowed her to survive CST. It also allowed Sakura to regenerate from Juubidara's black element something which even Edo-Tensei regen failed to do. Gensis of Rebirth and Byakugo have better "feats" than Yata at this point.You really can't argue Yata has lived up to it's hype, while Byakugo hasn't, as Byakugo is closer to living up to it's hype than Yata-Mirror is. 

With that said I don't believe Tsunade is tanking Bijuu-Bomb-FRS or something like that. Again I think the statement applies to the point and time it was made in the manga, I.E. no one alive could kill Tsunade who has Byakugo activate. Something I don't really have an issue believing because the strongest around were SM-J-man, Orochimaru, Itachi, and Nagato. Tsunade tanking CST with Gensis already puts her regen at a level where she can survive any of these characters attacks while Byakugo is activated, with only a few questionable cases; Amaterasu, Totsuka, and Soul-Rip. Amaterasu is consistently trolled in the manga, so I have no issue believing that Kishi would have Byakugo enable her to survive it some-how. Soul-Rip and Totsuka are the hardest ones to wrap my mind around, but I could see Gensis allowing Tsunade to split like Katsuya and that enabling her to survive these moves (possibly how she'd survive Amaterasu as well). Even certain levels of Bijuu-Bomb I wouldn't be shocked if Tsunade survived, considering Kishi magically had Deva-Realm take a Bijuu-Bomb hit and kept going; if that shanagenz can happen I wouldn't be shocked by Byakugo-Tsunade doing the same.


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## Ersa (May 19, 2014)

Amaterasu stopped Cerberus in its tracks, a Cerberus who tanked a FRS which Tsunade admitted to be beyond her healing. I think the argument that Amaterasu will outdamage Byakogou regeneration is very much valid. And Totsuka and Soul Rip are more or less sealing techniques so I don't see how regeneration helps here at all. A lesser TBB (KN4) should be tankable though.


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## Turrin (May 19, 2014)

Ersatz said:


> Amaterasu stopped Cerberus in its tracks, a Cerberus who tanked a FRS .


Cerberus didn't tank FRS. It was down on the ground immobile. What Cerberus was doing was generating new heads and preparing to split into new bodies. Itachi lit the new heads on fire, stopping that process. 



> which Tsunade admitted to be beyond her healing


According to Tsunade that has nothing to do with the strength of the attack or the damage over time it does, but specifically the damage it does to the chakra network. And we also have to consider that Tsunade has not demonstrated the same level of healing on other people that she can perform on herself with Byakugu & Gensis of Rebirth. She's not regrowing other people entire limbs or organs, like she states she can do so for herself. 

Edit: Tsunade also classifies healing and what Byakugo/Gensis does differently. So the statement wouldn't extend to that anyway.



> I think the argument that Amaterasu will outdamage Byakogou regeneration is very much valid


Sorry, but I really just have no faith that this is working on anybody close to Tsunade's "level", let alone someone highlighted for their survivability and being invincible in battle even after Kishi had introduced Amaterasu. I have a hard time imaging this because Kishi has been trolling Amaterasu like it's his job and no one that's gone up against it has thus far lacked a counter outside of Fodder-Samurai. 



> And Totsuka and Soul Rip are more or less sealing techniques so I don't see how regeneration helps here at all


Did't you read the part of my post about splitting or another method is shedding off a part of ones body like Juubi did.


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## ARGUS (May 19, 2014)

Itachi solos,,, Yata Mirror GG,,, nothing gets past it at all,,,, 

*Spoiler*: __ 



Strongest attacks that it can repel are HFN, Kirin, AT, COFRS,,, what ever u believe is the strongest out of these jutsus


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## StickaStick (May 19, 2014)

I personally agree with the stance that Yata Mirror--as a chakra item--is linked to the chakra that Itachi can put into it. So theoretically yes Yata Mirror could repel any attack (unless the attack possess special conditions that would nullify Yata Mirror's "invisibility" status) but would be contingent upon the specific user.

In Itachi's case we know that he isn't exactly noted as a chakra tank or for having any kind of special life force either so the list of attacks his Yata Mirror would be able to tank / repel would be limited. IMO an attack around Kirin's level is probably the best Itachi, through his Susanoo, could tank.


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## ATastyMuffin (May 19, 2014)

Whatever hype the Yata Mirror receives from 'it can deflect anything, it's invincible' or what not is purely hyperbolic. Ergo, it's not meant to be taken literally nor should we based off pure rationale.

One of the Seven Swordsmen was hyped to break through 'any defense'; if we contrast that statement to that of the Yata Mirror, both cannot be true. Just as we don't take literally a claim that says a swordsman from the Land of Water has that powerful a weapon, we also don't give the benefit of a doubt to the Yata Mirror. It's standard, textbook no-limits fallacy.

The best we could grant it is the power of Kirin, and that's been surpassed by many, many other techniques.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (May 19, 2014)

Good to know tsunade is immortal and cannot die in battle, kabutowari can break any defense, hidan cannot be killed, kiba is the sharpest sword in existence and there is no chance in defeating the shinju in it's final form.

Such lovely hype .


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## StickaStick (May 19, 2014)

It should be noted that a difference between the hype surrounding Yata Mirror and other hype is that we actually know how Yata Mirror works and can discern the viability of its hype as compared to other hype. I.e., Yata Mirror alters itself to "mirror" the properties of the attack that it is attempting to repel. So theoretically given the proper amount of chakra put into the shield it could repel any attack that doesn't nullify its "invincible" status through some special conditions. 

That hype surrounding other stuff like Gaara's ultimate defense and Kabutowari is unfounded and in reading it strikes me more as an 'in awe' kind of hype as opposed to BZ's statement which is made by someone who obviously possess the knowledge databank necessary to back up such a claim. That doesn't mean that Itachi (or any other wielder of the Yata Mirror) is "invincible" but that it lends that kind of potential when paired with something such as Totsuka no Tsurugi. For instance, if you gave that shit to current Mads or Sasuke they'd be much, much closer to obtaining that "invincible" status.


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## trance (May 20, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Cerberus didn't tank FRS. It was down on the ground immobile. What Cerberus was doing was generating new heads and preparing to split into new bodies. Itachi lit the new heads on fire, stopping that process.



Then, what the sphere here? FRS has created a sphere similar to that on several occasions. 



ATastyMuffin said:


> Whatever hype the Yata Mirror receives from 'it can deflect anything, it's invincible' or what not is purely hyperbolic. Ergo, it's not meant to be taken literally nor should we based off pure rationale.
> 
> *One of the Seven Swordsmen was hyped to break through 'any defense'; if we contrast that statement to that of the Yata Mirror, both cannot be true.* Just as we don't take literally a claim that says a swordsman from the Land of Water has that powerful a weapon, we also don't give the benefit of a doubt to the Yata Mirror. It's standard, textbook no-limits fallacy.
> 
> The best we could grant it is the power of Kirin, and that's been surpassed by many, many other techniques.



Exactly. We get a contradiction or more accurately, a paradox, which goes against logic and reasoning.


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## Csdabest (May 20, 2014)

I say until proven other wise and these are "spiritual weapons" while im sure Sasuke got (Physical weapons). The Mirror has yet to falter or shown any signs of falter so there no reason to believe otherwise then the hype it received in manga and DB. Black Zetsu stated that those weapons made itachi invincible. And since B.Zetsu seems to be Madara's essence he probably has alot of intel from madara since he basically broke down what they were.


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## trance (May 20, 2014)

Csdabest said:


> I say until proven other wise and these are "spiritual weapons" while im sure Sasuke got (Physical weapons). *The Mirror has yet to falter or shown any signs of falter so there no reason to believe otherwise then the hype it received in manga and DB*. Black Zetsu stated that those weapons made itachi invincible. And since B.Zetsu seems to be Madara's essence he probably has alot of intel from madara since he basically broke down what they were.



That's _exactly_ what a no limits fallacy is and it's guys like you who put faith in such that are not taken seriously in debates.


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## Ersa (May 20, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Cerberus didn't tank FRS. It was down on the ground immobile. What Cerberus was doing was generating new heads and preparing to split into new bodies. Itachi lit the new heads on fire, stopping that process.


Um, Nagato clearly says Naruto shouldn't attack it. Basically attacks like FRS are useless because Cerberus can regenerate from it and grow stronger (more heads). What happened with Amaterasu is that it outdamaged the regeneration (as fire tends to do). 

If it was as simple as targeting the heads (as you suggest) then Nagato would have said so. He tried as hard as possible to give Naruto every advantage.



> According to Tsunade that has nothing to do with the strength of the attack or the damage over time it does, but specifically the damage it does to the chakra network. And we also have to consider that Tsunade has not demonstrated the same level of healing on other people that she can perform on herself with Byakugu & Gensis of Rebirth. She's not regrowing other people entire limbs or organs, like she states she can do so for herself.


FRS slices chakra tubes, how does Byakugou work? Uses chakra for regeneration. If she gets caught in the blast she isn't regenerating from it simply because chakra can't reach the places she needs to regenerate. Perhaps if her arm or leg got caught then she could regenerate but not if she gets hit like Cerberus did. That would end her life. 



> Edit: Tsunade also classifies healing and what Byakugo/Gensis does differently. So the statement wouldn't extend to that anyway.


Even if we ignore that statement, the mechanics of FRS suggest it has a very high chance of bypassing her regeneration with a direct hit.



> Sorry, but I really just have no faith that this is working on anybody close to Tsunade's "level", let alone someone highlighted for their survivability and being invincible in battle even after Kishi had introduced Amaterasu. I have a hard time imaging this because Kishi has been trolling Amaterasu like it's his job and no one that's gone up against it has thus far lacked a counter outside of Fodder-Samurai.


Using low-ends to downgrade a technique really has no place here.

TBB has low-ends, FRS has low-ends. Amaterasu has some lackluster feats yes but it also has some amazing feats (burning through a firetoad's stomach, hurting the Hachibi, amplifying FRS to the point where it can hurt the frickkin Juubi and also putting Cerberus down)



> Did't you read the part of my post about splitting or another method is shedding off a part of ones body like Juubi did.


I did and it's baseless.

Tsunade is not a Hozuki nor does she possess Katsuyu's powers. And no she isn't chopping off a limb before Totsuka gobbles her up. Orochimaru didn't and he treats limbs like you and I treat clothes.


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## Sans (May 20, 2014)

Dat's some pro Rookie shit right there.


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## ATastyMuffin (May 20, 2014)

Csdabest said:


> I say until proven other wise and these are "spiritual weapons" while im sure Sasuke got (Physical weapons). The Mirror has yet to falter or shown any signs of falter so there no reason to believe otherwise then the hype it received in manga and DB



This is stupid logic. That one swordsmen of the Seven Swordsmen of the Mist was also never shown to falter against any defense on-panel so therefore its hype is valid as well, right? Because going by your inane logic that's exactly what you'd have to agree with.



> Black Zetsu stated that those weapons made itachi invincible. And since B.Zetsu seems to be Madara's essence he probably has alot of intel from madara since he basically broke down what they were.



And then Madara later on says Perfect Susano'o can smash all things in the universe.

Get real, kid.


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## IchLiebe (May 20, 2014)

Ersatz said:


> Amaterasu stopped Cerberus in its tracks, a Cerberus who tanked a FRS which Tsunade admitted to be beyond her healing. I think the argument that Amaterasu will outdamage Byakogou regeneration is very much valid. And Totsuka and Soul Rip are more or less sealing techniques so I don't see how regeneration helps here at all. A lesser TBB (KN4) should be tankable though.



Not necessarily when we look at the mechanics of the jutsu which contradict a protrayal.

First of all Cerebrus should've just kept multiplying infinitely when Amaterasu hit.

Second- FRS should realistically be able to deal with Cerebrus since it cuts chakra threads.

Third- Tsunade said she can't heal other's chakra threads. Her alive and able to do jutsu says that she is able to heal her own.

Did Naruto ever hit it with FRS?


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## Turrin (May 20, 2014)

Ersatz said:


> Um, Nagato clearly says Naruto shouldn't attack it. Basically attacks like FRS are useless because Cerberus can regenerate from it and grow stronger (more heads). What happened with Amaterasu is that it outdamaged the regeneration (as fire tends to do).


There is no regeneration. It's multiplication

"Pain's giant dog summon multiplies each time it is "hit""
"A "Summoning Technique" appended with a special condition. The summoned creature is given a condition like "when hit by an attack, multiply". When that condition is met, the technique for multiplying oneself is invoked."

FRS triggered it's multiplication. Itachi stopped that by lighting the new heads that were forming on fire, while also preventing new heads from forming.



> FRS slices chakra tubes, how does Byakugou work? Uses chakra for regeneration. If she gets caught in the blast she isn't regenerating from it simply because chakra can't reach the places she needs to regenerate. Perhaps if her arm or leg got caught then she could regenerate but not if she gets hit like Cerberus did. That would end her life.


Not if it regenerate the tubes.



> Even if we ignore that statement, the mechanics of FRS suggest it has a very high chance of bypassing her regeneration with a direct hit.


Let's assume it does, what does that prove except the FRS is the perfect counter to Byakugo due to it's special ability.



> Using low-ends to downgrade a technique really has no place here.
> 
> TBB has low-ends, FRS has low-ends. Amaterasu has some lackluster feats yes but it also has some amazing feats (burning through a firetoad's stomach, hurting the Hachibi, amplifying FRS to the point where it can hurt the frickkin Juubi and also putting Cerberus down)


Notice how even among these higher end feats, not a single instance can be cited where a powerful ninja lacked a counter to it and therefore has nothing to do with what I said. Get back to me when Ksihi actually allows it to defeat someone whose even remotely within the realm of strength were talking about here.



> Tsunade is not a Hozuki nor does she possess Katsuyu's powers. And no she isn't chopping off a limb before Totsuka gobbles her up. Orochimaru didn't and he treats limbs like you and I treat clothes.


Would you honestly be shocked if she demonstrated one of these abilities, because I certainly wouldn't be.


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## Rocky (May 20, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Get back to me when Ksihi actually allows it to defeat someone whose even remotely within the realm of strength were talking about here.



Are you saying that Amaterasu is incapable of killing someone of a higher level because it hasn't happened on panel?


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## Ersa (May 20, 2014)

Turrin said:


> There is no regeneration. It's multiplication
> 
> "Pain's giant dog summon multiplies each time it is "hit""
> "A "Summoning Technique" appended with a special condition. The summoned creature is given a condition like "when hit by an attack, multiply". When that condition is met, the technique for multiplying oneself is invoked."
> ...


It's a form of regeneration.

Irregardless, if it was as simple as targetting the heads then why didn't Nagato tell Naruto to do that? A simple FRS to the head area (instead of the back) would accomplish the same thing Amaterasu did.




> Not if it regenerate the tubes.


How on earth can you regenerate the tubes that you require to regenerate in the first place?



> Let's assume it does, what does that prove except the FRS is the perfect counter to Byakugo due to it's special ability.


It proves that against techniques that utilize a form of regeneration (multiplying is regenerating in a sense, look at Buu from DB) Amaterasu is superior. Hence the argument Amaterasu can deal with Tsunade is very much valid; even hardcore Tsunade fans agree with this I feel.



> Notice how even among these higher end feats, not a single instance can be cited where a powerful ninja lacked a counter to it and therefore has nothing to do with what I said. Get back to me when Ksihi actually allows it to defeat someone whose even remotely within the realm of strength were talking about here.


So has like Bijuudama ever killed anyone of note? Eh not really.

Has Bijuudama FRS killed anyone of note? Eh not really.

Has Perfect Susanoo killed anyone of note? Eh not really.



> Would you honestly be shocked if she demonstrated one of these abilities, because I certainly wouldn't be.


Yes I would be because we have literally zero evidence. The recent powerups weren't really unexpected. We knew Naruto was the second RS, we knew Sasuke would get the Rinnegan. In no place or form have we been suggested Tsunade can split off parts of her body.


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## ueharakk (May 20, 2014)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> Since I've never had any reason to doubt it's hype, I'm just going to go out there and said "any attack" _except_ an attack with a large enough AOE to contact Susano'o around Yata and powerful enough to take it out, which will rob the shield of it's anchor to the physical world.


there are plenty of reasons to doubt Yaata's hype.

First off, the databook gives a different description of the defensive properties and abilities of yaata.  It doesn't attribute 'the ability to reflect any attack' to the shield despite the databooks reputation of giving techniques more hype than the manga does.

Second, yaata is mentioned and portrayed to be on the same level as totsuka, yet if it literally could reflect any attack, then the general abilities of both items would be a complete mismatch.

Third, no one takes "reflects any attack" literally.  Yaata can't reflect verbal attacks, as well as sound or light as both pass right through it, so 'any attack' is already a figurative statement.  Sure it's 'common sense' to think black zetsu wasn't refering to verbal abuse when he hyped the shield, but common train of thought or not, it's still not taking the statement to be literal.

Fourth, no limits hype.  It's been thrown around so many times in this manga with people claiming shinobi X can't be killed, jutsu Y can't be dodged, attack Z cuts through anything, it's all relative to the context in which the statement was made, it's never taken to be literal.  In addition to that, if something does have no limits hype, then it does require at least some kind of verification.  Perfect example is how black zetsu stated amaterasu was 'completely unavoidable.'  In the context of Sasuke vs Itachi, sure he's right, sasuke doesn't have the speed to do it, however does that no limits hype apply to ALL situations or targets?  No, since Ei dodges it at close range.

Fifth, at the time, kishi's idea of susanoo was different than what it was now.  You can tell this by the databook description where it lists yaata and totsuka as part of 'susanoo' in general not necessarily itachi's susanoo.

Sixth, we see in *this* scan that it's hype of reflecting any attack is falsified as the hydra heads simply bash against the shield like any other hard substance, they don't go flying in the opposite direction or get the force of their charge exerted right back in their faces.

Seventh, if it literally had the ability to reflect any attack, and then why do the higher tiers like madara, sasuke, the juubi jins, black zetsu, kabuto and obito just not care about it?  If it literally had that ability, it would surpass every defense we've ever seen including the onmyouton orbs and onmyouton shield.  It would surpass the So6P, Kaguya and the juubi's power as they've never been implied to have some kind of defense that can literally reflect any attack.

Eight, it's unsubstantiated.  The best thing the mirror has ever gone up against was a round of paper bombs.  If it really did have the ability to reflect any attack, kishi would show it going up against something high tier, or at the very least, high tier for at the time the manga made the claim about it.  

These are all reasons to doubt yaata's hype.  Sure they can't conclusively prove yaata's hype to be false, but I think the argument is compelling no statement that attributes limitless ability to something in the narutoverse should be granted as true until proven false.


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## Ersa (May 20, 2014)

I think even if you don't believe the hype you should at least consider this is a one-off legendary item that the author hyped to block all attacks in both his manga and his databook (two canon sources). That alone should suggest it's capable of blocking most of the more powerful jutsu in this manga especially given it's counterpart has never failed. Not even when absorbing a nigh top tier in Edo Nagato. 

FRS and weaker Bijuudama should certainly be blockable. Higher end stuff like TBB-FRS yeah probably not.

The people who believe it could block all attacks here are following what the manga laid out for better then the people who think Kirin or lord forbid *Odama Rasengan* can break the Mirror.


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## Csdabest (May 21, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> That's _exactly_ what a no limits fallacy is and it's guys like you who put faith in such that are not taken seriously in debates.



Prove it wrong. Your arguing against the creator of the manga opinion. Considering that the Shield doesn't protect ALL of susano-o. The key would merely be just to NOT HIT THE SHIELD. Its basic combat to try to work at losing the grip of the shield or outmanuvering it.

What idiot directly attacks an object which SOUL purpose is to block and deflect attacks. So who the idiot here. Not to mention Uchiha powers such as Susano-o are connected to Rikudou powers Nothing short of a Rikudou power should be able to change that outcome.

Even Black Zetsu who is madara will and is apart of him stated that itachi was invincible with those weapons. If they havent been defeated and has block every attack(Sasuke bow shield is not even Yata Mirrow and it tanked with out a scratch an Augmented Wind bullet.) Not to mention if you pay attention to the attacks and mechanics of the Shield. You would know why.

The spiritual shield is like a mirror and adjust to the attack. Since it spiritual it does not follow the natural laws of the physical world. We already are hearing about how the invisible world of limbo can not be effected by physical attacks or attacks made with out the sages senjutsu chakra. Stop speculating and just wait.  The thread didnt even ask if it shields susano-o just can the shield tank or repel.

And since NOTHING has given us a reason to believe other wise. We just need to believe the author until he retcons or give an example and reason why it happen. How are you going to ARGUE against the own words of the creator of the manga With out any evidence or slightest hints?

If kishi wanted he can have Ten Ten projecting shit out of her ass at high speed that are soo hard and solid with such power that it can peirce cleanly through the moon in under a second from earth. Even if it doesnt make since. you have to follow it. Kishi is alllowed to keep up the no limits fallacy.


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## ueharakk (May 21, 2014)

Csdabest said:


> Prove it wrong. Your arguing against the creator of the manga opinion. Considering that the Shield doesn't protect ALL of susano-o. The key would merely be just to NOT HIT THE SHIELD. Its basic combat to try to work at losing the grip of the shield or outmanuvering it.
> 
> What idiot directly attacks an object which SOUL purpose is to block and deflect attacks. So who the idiot here. Not to mention Uchiha powers such as Susano-o are connected to Rikudou powers Nothing short of a Rikudou power should be able to change that outcome.


When Gai said that raikiri cuts through ANYTHING do you think Kishi was of the opinion that raikiri could literally cut through anything in the narutoverse past present and future?
When Kishi said only a sannin could beat another sannin, do you think Kishi literally was thinking that no one who doesn't have the title of sannin can defeat a sannin?
When Kishi said that no one could survive FRS, do you think Kishi literally thought that FRS can't be survived?  

If not, then when someone argues against a no limits hyperbole statement, then he's not necessarily arguing against the creator of the manga.  



Csdabest said:


> Even Black Zetsu who is madara will and is apart of him stated that itachi was invincible with those weapons. If they havent been defeated and has block every attack(Sasuke bow shield is not even Yata Mirrow and it tanked with out a scratch an Augmented Wind bullet.) Not to mention if you pay attention to the attacks and mechanics of the Shield. You would know why.


Black zetsu didn't even know what susanoo was and said that amaterasu was completely unavoidable,  kishi's black zetsu back then absolutely does not have madara's knowledge.



Csdabest said:


> The spiritual shield is like a mirror and adjust to the attack. Since it spiritual it does not follow the natural laws of the physical world. We already are hearing about how the invisible world of limbo can not be effected by physical attacks or attacks made with out the sages senjutsu chakra. Stop speculating and just wait.  The thread didnt even ask if it shields susano-o just can the shield tank or repel.


The databook blatantly explains how yaata works, and it does function by the same laws as the real world since it has to change its properties in order to render an attack inneffective.  In addition to that, every shinobi has spiritual energy, it's part of the components of chakra, so it being a spiritual item doesn't mean it suddenly functions like something not bound by any laws of the NV.  



Csdabest said:


> And since NOTHING has given us a reason to believe other wise. We just need to believe the author until he retcons or give an example and reason why it happen. How are you going to ARGUE against the own words of the creator of the manga With out any evidence or slightest hints?


We've given tons of reason to believe otherwise: I've listed 8 of them on the previous page, and can probably give even more.



Csdabest said:


> If kishi wanted he can have Ten Ten projecting shit out of her ass at high speed that are soo hard and solid with such power that it can peirce cleanly through the moon in under a second from earth. Even if it doesnt make since. you have to follow it. Kishi is alllowed to keep up the no limits fallacy.


Absolutely not.  If kishi wanted to show tenten doing that, he'd either show it or make a statement about her being capable of such.  That statement wouldn't be in the same category as a no limits statement because it would give a set and finite definition of the limits of her capabilities.  "unbeatable", "undefeatable", "destroys/cutsthrough any", "near infinite", "can't be measured" are all hyperbole statements constantly used to just hype something as 'very powerful' in the context of that statement and not to be taken literally.  

Other than fuel to place itachi higher on your tier list or to win an argument in favor of itachi, there's no good reason to believe that Yaata's manga hype is literal while on the otherhand all the evidence points towards it being figurative hype relevant to the attacks that Sasuke could have used against it or the attacks that had been introduced up until that point in the manga.


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## ATastyMuffin (May 21, 2014)

Ersatz said:


> I think even if you don't believe the hype you should at least consider this is a one-off legendary item that the author hyped to block all attacks in both his manga and his databook (two canon sources).



And yet _'hyping to block all attacks' _in itself is a statement that's worth utterly nothing especially if we contrast it to other similarly fallacious statements, because at that point you just have contradictions and paradoxes.

Trying to argue that Yata Mirror should be capable of more, if not much more than what's been shown is sheer *conjecture*, and stems only from flawed, arbitrary reasoning that since Kishimoto 'hyped it as such', its power should therefore be extrapolated to limits you randomly set.

For example, what you said below: given that the Yata Mirror has been praised as such, it should be strong enough to remain intact following regular Tailed Beast Bombs and whatnot, but not Tailed Beast Bomb Rasenshuriken for some odd reason - why don't you include the latter? If your arguments are going off hype and hype alone, there's no reason as to why the Yata Mirror shouldn't be able to block a Tailed Beast Bomb Rasenshuriken, no?

All it shows, is that your side of things is unfounded and baseless to an _absurd _degree.



> That alone should suggest it's capable of blocking most of the more powerful jutsu in this manga especially given it's counterpart has never failed. Not even when absorbing a nigh top tier in Edo Nagato.



Its counterpart sealing a 'nigh top tier in Edo Nagato' isn't impressive in itself; it's not as if Nagato has some sort of insane durability that is attested to for his relatively high power placement. 

Nor does Edo Nagato have some sort of resistance to being 'absorbed', as you imply. What I'm saying is, that the Totsuka being able to defeat Nagato doesn't necessarily point it as a top-tier/nigh-top-tier weapon; I really don't doubt that a Lightning Release-infused kunai couldn't accomplish basically the same result (minus the sealing, of course).


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## Bkprince33 (May 21, 2014)

I doubt the author meant for that statement to be taken literal.


if i had to guess i would say it has the strongest defense out of all the stage 4 susano's we seen so you could pretty much scale it to that, i would give it the benefit of the doubt and say anything madara or sasuke's stage 4 susano tanked, I'm pretty sure itachi's could do the same but a little better if he uses the shield to guard as well.


it would be silly to think kishi would make itachi's susano more defensive then a ps.


another thing to consider is itachi has to physically move the shield to cover the attack, so if his opponent is moving faster then he can track the shield would probably be pretty useless.


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## Ersa (May 21, 2014)

ATastyMuffin said:


> And yet _'hyping to block all attacks' _in itself is a statement that's worth utterly nothing especially if we contrast it to other similarly fallacious statements, because at that point you just have contradictions and paradoxes.



Actually Kishimoto was very specific with what Yata's Mirror does unlike his usual hyperbole.



The Databook may not be the manga but it's canon nonetheless as Kishimoto sat down and wrote down what he thought the Mirror did. It's not perfect but it's a hell of a lot better then ordinary folk like us trying to use subjective feats to intrepret what Yata can or can not do. So Yata's hype is much better then some of the fallicious statements we've gotten. For one we know Haku is not lightspeed, the hype behind Yata has never been disproven by feats.

And the fact that Kishimoto refers to it as gods power could mean there's a RS relation in there 



> Trying to argue that Yata Mirror should be capable of more, if not much more than what's been shown is sheer *conjecture*, and stems only from flawed, arbitrary reasoning that since Kishimoto 'hyped it as such', its power should therefore be extrapolated to limits you randomly set.


Giving Yata's Mirror some credit due to it's insane hype is not really conjecture. It has some evidence from the manga.

Think of the authors intent and the portrayal it's been given in the manga and DB. Kaguya is featless yet we all buy the hype. As I said even if you don't buy the hype, saying Kirin busted the mirror is going against what the author tried to show imo.

Honestly we just don't know given it's lack of feats but given Kishimoto has given absolutely zero reason for us to doubt the hype. So for the time being I choose to accept what's canon (for now) rather then try lowball it by saying that I think Kishimoto changed his mind about the mirror and the blocking everything was just some silly hype to make Itachi look good at the time because quite frankly that is even more baseless.



> For example, what you said below: given that the Yata Mirror has been praised as such, it should be strong enough to remain intact following regular Tailed Beast Bombs and whatnot, but not Tailed Beast Bomb Rasenshuriken for some odd reason - why don't you include the latter? If your arguments are going off hype and hype alone, there's no reason as to why the Yata Mirror shouldn't be able to block a Tailed Beast Bomb Rasenshuriken, no?


For all we know it could very well tank a Bijuudama FRS (I mean it falls under the category of physical/ninjutsu/astral/material) but only the Mirror itself, Susanoo would be caught in the blast and be blown to kingdom come. Really any top tier can get past the Mirror by blindsiding Susanoo so really this doesn't even raise Itachi in power that much. So yeah even if the hype is true, Yata's Mirror is still limited by the durability of V4 Susanoo to a certain extent.  

Or I suppose you could say Bijuudama FRS is a gods power too so maybe it bypasses the mechanics of Yata's Mirror 



> All it shows, is that your side of things is unfounded and baseless to an _absurd _degree.


It has basis but it hinges on if you still think Kishimoto believes what he wrote back then about how the Mirror works (being a godly item/blocking all attacks). 

And it certainly has more basis then _certain people _claiming Odama Rasengan and Acid Mist can destroy the Mirror.



> Its counterpart sealing a 'nigh top tier in Edo Nagato' isn't impressive in itself; it's not as if Nagato has some sort of insane durability that is attested to for his relatively high power placement.
> 
> Nor does Edo Nagato have some sort of resistance to being 'absorbed', as you imply. What I'm saying is, that the Totsuka being able to defeat Nagato doesn't necessarily point it as a top-tier/nigh-top-tier weapon; I really don't doubt that a Lightning Release-infused kunai couldn't accomplish basically the same result (minus the sealing, of course).


Nagato has Bijuu levels of chakra, sealing someone with that degree of chakra is pretty impressive I feel.

My point is Totsuka never failing (unlike say FRS or Amaterasu) definitely suggests to me it could be a top tier weapon. Orochimaru was desperate to find it and his goal is basically to become the "ultimate" shinobi. The fact that Yata's Mirror counterpart is tried and proven is just more evidence Yata could live up to it's hype.

And honestly for them being top tier weapons you really don't think Totsuka/Yata in the hands of Madara/EMS Sasuke could be insanely broken? 
Like a PS carrying Yata and Totsuka? Part of me still hopes Sauce inherited the legendary items through his brothers eyes so we can finally settle this debate with some solid feats.


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## Ashi (May 21, 2014)

The logic that "Yata mirror blocked every Sasuke threw at it so it lives up to the hype" is ridiculous.

I could get an ordinary knife say it has the power to cut through everything in the world, cut a few loaves of bread, break it so it can't be tested on anything else, and it'd be the same logic there


It's still just a NFL Hyperbole that you idiots don't have the middle school reading comprehension to see through


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## Grimmjowsensei (May 21, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> The logic that "Yata mirror blocked every Sasuke threw at it so it lives up to the hype" is ridiculous.
> 
> I could get an ordinary knife say it has the power to cut through everything in the world, cut a few loaves of bread, break it so it can't be tested on anything else, and it'd be the same logic there
> 
> ...



Too much anger in this teenager.

Btw your example doesn't fly for the sole fact that you are trying to compare an ordinary knife to an extra ordniary shield by Narutoverse standarts. 

If Shield of Yata was used by some fodder and didn't have its "legendary" hype, then yes I'd agree with you.


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## trance (May 21, 2014)

Csdabest said:


> Prove it wrong. Your arguing against the creator of the manga opinion. Considering that the Shield doesn't protect ALL of susano-o. The key would merely be just to NOT HIT THE SHIELD. Its basic combat to try to work at losing the grip of the shield or outmanuvering it.
> 
> What idiot directly attacks an object which SOUL purpose is to block and deflect attacks. So who the idiot here. Not to mention Uchiha powers such as Susano-o are connected to Rikudou powers Nothing short of a Rikudou power should be able to change that outcome.
> 
> ...



Unnecessary rant is unnecessary. 

Suggesting it can shield him from 'any' attack is a ridiculous notion. Anyone that seriously uses it in a debate is borderline foolish. 

Also, Kishi hasn't exactly been consistent with his manga, now has he? 

If I go to the OBD and put Itachi against Thanos with Yata Mirror up from the start, do you honestly think people will seriously think it can protect Itachi from a low tier cosmic entity capable of casually destroying planets and causing stars to go supernova? That might be a bit extreme so I'll tone it down a bit. Do you think Yata Mirror can protect Itachi from say "Night Moth", a Juubidama, a Yoton: Rasenshuriken, etc, etc? 



> Even if it doesnt make since. you have to follow it. Kishi is alllowed to keep up the no limits fallacy.



No. I don't have to follow it. It not making sense is exactly *why* I don't have to follow it (among other reasons). That's essentially what a logical fallacy is.


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## Ashi (May 21, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Too much anger in this teenager.
> 
> Btw your example doesn't fly for the sole fact that you are trying to compare an ordinary knife to an extra ordniary shield by Narutoverse standarts.
> 
> If Shield of Yata was used by some fodder and didn't have its "legendary" hype, then yes I'd agree with you.



Then I'll put glitter on it


Anyway you get my point


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## Nikushimi (May 21, 2014)

Standard Bijuudama and Kirin pretty much represent the general ballpark of attacks I assume Itachi's Susano'o can block with the Yata Mirror.


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## Sans (May 21, 2014)

I think it can repel the Battledome's hatred of Itachi.


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## ueharakk (May 21, 2014)

Komnenos said:


> I think it can repel the Battledome's hatred of Itachi.



I doubt people really hate itachi, it's his placement and the feats that his fans attempt to attribute to him that are hated, not the character himself


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## Sans (May 21, 2014)

Most of it is disagreements, but some people seem to really, really, really hate a fictional character.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 21, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> Standard Bijuudama and Kirin pretty much represent the general ballpark of attacks I assume Itachi's Susano'o can block with the Yata Mirror.


A standard Bijudama should be too much for Itachi's Susano'o regardless of Yata Mirror. He only gets the feat of surviving Kirin with it, not tanking it too. Standard Bijudama blows Kirin out of the water in terms of power too.


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## trance (May 22, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> A standard Bijudama should be too much for Itachi's Susano'o regardless of Yata Mirror. He only gets the feat of surviving Kirin with it, *not tanking it too. Standard Bijudama blows Kirin out of the water in terms of power too*.



Depends on which bijudama. KN4's bijudama was only in the kilotons while Kirin was about 17 megatons.


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