# Wario vs Knuckles



## Negative Zero (May 25, 2012)

*VS*



Because Mario/Sonic fights are always popular lol. Anyway, these two are pretty much considered the muscle bound douchebags from they're respective universes. I'm thinking a multi-round battle here.

Round 1: Treasure hunting contest. 20 bags of money are hidden throughout a  warehouse. Whoever finds the most money wins the round.

Round 2: Golf cart race around a race track for 30 laps. Whoever finishes first wins the round.

Round 3: All out fight. Whoever beats the other wins the round.

Whoever wins the majority of the rounds wins the match.


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## Azrael Finalstar (May 25, 2012)

1. Both are pretty good at treasure hunting, but Knuckles is so much faster, he'd find more
2. Knuckles stomps
3. Harder one, because Wario has some pretty out there feats. Are these characters in base? Composite? If its composite or Knuckles can go super, Knuckles wins, other wise, its a pretty close fight.


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## Soledad Eterna (May 25, 2012)

I go with Knuckles in the fight. Wario has some pretty beast feats, but Knux is much faster and if not stronger, at least almost as strong.


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## Negative Zero (May 25, 2012)

I see Wario taking round 2 easily since he has more vehicle racing experience and never plays fair.

As for the fight, Wario has toonforce-esque regeneration if I'm not mistaken (came back from being comically burned to ashes in one of his games).


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## Palpatine (May 25, 2012)

Wario would likely cheat in all 3 scenarios. So the odds are in his favor.


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## Solrac (May 25, 2012)

Wario sweeps in all three scenarios. 

He'll be having some echnidna soup tonight.


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## Negative Zero (May 25, 2012)

The soup would have a bunch of red hairs in it lol.


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## Solrac (May 25, 2012)

Negative Zero said:


> The soup would have a bunch of red hairs in it lol.



He'll just pluck the hairs out first and sell them to a Wig shop or a Barber.


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## Azrael Finalstar (May 25, 2012)

Sorry dude, he's too slow.


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## Solrac (May 25, 2012)

And that's our hadomaru! *comedic background sitcom music plays*


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## RWB (May 25, 2012)

*
Round 1*

Knuckles has the speed advantage, but Wario becomes a lot better whenever there's money up for grabs .  

*Round 2*

Wario. Why anyone would even argue Knuckles wins a kart race of any kind I do not know.

*Round 3*
Warioland 2 and 3 say hi with actual canon invincibility. Wario wins by attrition, if not for any other reason.

Wario wins, all in all.


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## Negative Zero (May 25, 2012)

I only added the golf cart race because they've both driven karts of various types. Wario would be more experienced and wouldn't race fair most likely.


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## Solrac (May 25, 2012)

RWB said:


> *
> Round 1*
> 
> Knuckles has the speed advantage, but Wario becomes a lot better whenever there's money up for grabs .
> ...



Pretty much this. \m/


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## Soledad Eterna (May 25, 2012)

RWB said:


> *
> Round 1*
> 
> Knuckles has the speed advantage, but Wario becomes a lot better whenever there's money up for grabs .
> ...



Actual invincibility? What does that even mean? If it's a game mechanic, I don't think it really counts.


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## Negative Zero (May 25, 2012)

One of Wario's powerups (Flame Wario) sets Wario on fire in a comical fashion (letting him burn enemies around him) until he burns to ashes, he then regenerates right back from the ashes.

Another ability involves Wario actually being crushed into a human pancake allowing him to spring back up to reach high places. 

Wario has toonforce and regeneration.


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## RWB (May 25, 2012)

Soledad Eterna said:


> Actual invincibility? What does that even mean? If it's a game mechanic, I don't think it really counts.



You see, here's the deal, this supposed game mechanic was explicitly said by Wario himself, making it an actual story feat.

Wario can get knocked back, but neither KO'd nor killed.


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## Negative Zero (May 25, 2012)

No non-canon comics for Knuckles. Just games.


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## Merlight (May 25, 2012)

Palpatine said:


> Wario would likely cheat in all 3 scenarios. So the odds are in his favor.



In-character he'll cheat.

Round 1: Wario farts and blows up the warehouse nuclear-explosion style. Knucles is KO'ed from the smell and Wario collectes the scattered coins.
=Wario wins

Round 2: Wario cheats by knocking Knuckles out of his golf cart and off the stage as much as he can. Wario gets at least a lap ahead with this strategy.
=Wario wins

Round 3: Wario Man. Nuff said.
= Wario wins

wariotrollface.png


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## Negative Zero (May 26, 2012)

Merlight said:


> In-character he'll cheat.
> 
> Round 1: Wario farts and blows up the warehouse nuclear-explosion style. Knucles is KO'ed from the smell and Wario collectes the scattered coins.
> =Wario wins
> ...


Lol. That's quite a strategy.


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## Solrac (May 26, 2012)

Who is this Rage God Asura dupe anyway?


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## Azrael Finalstar (May 26, 2012)

RWB said:


> You see, here's the deal, this supposed game mechanic was explicitly said by Wario himself, making it an actual story feat.
> 
> Wario can get knocked back, but neither KO'd nor killed.



No, that makes it a character statement. also, even if true, a gigantic no limits fallacy. And its further contradicted by Wario land 4.


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## Solrac (May 26, 2012)

>mario/sonic-related thread pops up in OBD
>hadomaru arguing against mario characters 
>nice lulz to be expected. 

(don't take it as an offense, hadomaru, i'm only joking).


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## Versant (May 26, 2012)

So wario cant die from anything and instantly regen from burnt to ashes
Wario vs bloodlusted superman?


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## Unlosing Ranger (May 26, 2012)




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## Shoddragon (May 26, 2012)

Azrael Finalstar said:


> No, that makes it a character statement. also, even if true, a gigantic no limits fallacy. And its further contradicted by Wario land 4.



pretty sure wario land 4 is the only one where he isn't immortal but in 2 and 3 he is.

plus like many marioverse characters he has degrees of toonforce including regen from toonforce.

the dude burns to nothing but ashes and instantly regenerates.
he gets flattened by things that should liquify his insides but instead turns into a pancake like wario form.
he's immortal.

it doesn't take rocket science. just an understand of his games and how he operates.


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## Negative Zero (May 26, 2012)

^Pretty much that.


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## 8-Peacock-8 (May 26, 2012)

1. Well it's likely that Wario will destroy the ware with a fart and knock Knuckles out cold. (sad thing is Wario would do that.)

2. Wario wins easily.

3. Draw at the most if not then Wario simply wares Knuckles down and proceeds to rip him apart when the echidna is too tired.



Azrael Finalstar said:


> 2. Knuckles stomps



lol wat? Wario would easily win in a Kart race.


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## Cave Jansen (May 26, 2012)

1- Knuckles is a more competent treasure hunter. He's faster, can glide large distances and can also dig. He has also sensors that allow him to detect the treasures. I say Knuckles.

2- Knuckles with his master emerald would outrun Wario very easily.

3- Knuckles in his super-form would send Wario to the moon.


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## 8-Peacock-8 (May 26, 2012)

Cave Jansen said:


> 2- Knuckles with his master emerald would outrun Wario very easily.



you realize number 2 is a cart race right?

because the OP said they would racing in Golf carts.


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## Cave Jansen (May 26, 2012)

8-Peacock-8 said:


> you realize number 2 is a cart race right?
> 
> because the OP said they would racing in Golf carts.



7:09

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEQga1hsfyk[/YOUTUBE]


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## 8-Peacock-8 (May 26, 2012)

Cave Jansen said:


> 7:09
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEQga1hsfyk[/YOUTUBE]



Before or after Wario knocks him out of the race?


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## Cave Jansen (May 26, 2012)

8-Peacock-8 said:


> Before or after Wario knocks him out of the race?



If we're gonna be like that, then Knuckles turns into Super Knuckles, pick Wario and his kart, flies with him to the moon, punches him in the nutsack, and fly to earth again in order to finish the race.


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## Negative Zero (May 26, 2012)

Did I even SAY they get powerups in the kart race?


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## Azrael Finalstar (May 26, 2012)

8-Peacock-8 said:


> lol wat? Wario would easily win in a Kart race.



Yeah, i wasn't reading very well. i missed the cart part 
Although, I'm not sure how we'd gauge their cart racing abilities, but i'd bet the cart Knux uses in Sa2 is faster. Still, impossible to tell.


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## Jac of Jacks (May 26, 2012)

Scenario 1

Not sure. Wario will do anything for money. But Knuckles is a good Treasure Hunter since he put the damn Master Emerald together. Hm...tie?

Scenario 2

Wario. When does Knuckles ever _drive _anything?

Scenario 3

Wario. He's immortal.


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## Soledad Eterna (May 27, 2012)

RWB said:


> You see, here's the deal, this supposed game mechanic was explicitly said by Wario himself, making it an actual story feat.
> 
> Wario can get knocked back, but neither KO'd nor killed.



So, a no limits fallacy then?
Knuckles is much faster and equally strong, he can just knock him out and win.


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## jetwaterluffy1 (May 27, 2012)

Soledad Eterna said:


> So, a no limits fallacy then?
> Knuckles is much faster and equally strong, he can just knock him out and win.



It is an NLF that he can survive _anything,_ but he can tank anything knuckles is able to dish out, seeing as he can tank earthquake epicenters. If Knuckles had some mountain level feats or more, or subatomic attacks, I might say knuckles, but he doesn't. So wario takes this.


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## Cave Jansen (May 27, 2012)

Negative Zero said:


> Did I even SAY they get powerups in the kart race?



It's part of their racing/power set-up, if you don't want us to use Knuckles powers, then say so in the OP.

As you leaved it, Knuckles can pull off his Master Emerald. Heck, he can even go Hyper Knuckles. What would Wario do to prevent him?

And saying he has no experience in Kart racing? Since when? He has been in at least 4 racing games, and he will turn 5 this year (this without counting the Sonic Riders series). In the last game he raced against way more worthy racers than Wario has raced on his life. Like Ulala, Beat, Ryo Hazuki and Opa Opa. Fuck Wario.


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## Negative Zero (May 27, 2012)

@Cave
I just said golf carts. If I wanted powerups for that round, I would have included them. No need to rage at me like that. And I never said Knuckles never had any experience in kart racing, stop putting words in my mouth. I know he's driven vehicles before, but Wario was doing that long before Knuckles ever got behind a wheel. Without powerups, it comes down to pure driving skill, not to mention Wario is likely not gonna be racing fair.

I see Wario taking round 2, simple as that.


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## Cave Jansen (May 27, 2012)

Actually, Knuckles started 2 years before Wario. Sonic Drift is from 94, while MK64 is from 96. 
And I'm not raging, i wouldn't rage at you bro. You probably don't recognize me thanks to this awesome mosaic of Superman made of PS3 trophies. But I'm Lurker from the Lounge movietorjan.

Anyway, i think you should have said so in the OP if you didn't want them to use their power ups. Knuckles can use his master emerald/7 chaos emeralds in the games, as i said, is part of his set-up.
With that restricted, i dunno what would happen. How strong and fast is base-Wario? Base Knuckles could ambush super sonic and can keep up with Sonic.


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## jetwaterluffy1 (May 27, 2012)

Cave Jansen said:


> Actually, Knuckles started 2 years before Wario. Sonic Drift is from 94, while MK64 is from 96.
> And I'm not raging, i wouldn't rage at you bro. You probably don't recognize me thanks to this awesome mosaic of Superman made of PS3 trophies. But I'm Lurker from the Lounge movietorjan.
> 
> Anyway, i think you should have said so in the OP if you didn't want them to use their power ups. Knuckles can use his master emerald/7 chaos emeralds in the games, as i said, is part of his set-up.
> With that restricted, i dunno what would happen. How strong and fast is base-Wario? Base Knuckles could ambush super sonic and can keep up with Sonic.



Not really. Emeralds aren't part of his standard equipment, he has to collect them.


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## Cave Jansen (May 27, 2012)

jetwaterluffy1 said:


> Not really. Emeralds aren't part of his standard equipment, he has to collect them.



He lives in the island with the master emerald.


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## Negative Zero (May 27, 2012)

Lol, didn't know it was you Lurker.


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## jetwaterluffy1 (May 27, 2012)

Cave Jansen said:


> He lives in the island with the master emerald.



He doesn't carry it around with him, though, does he? That's like saying superman can use the phantom zone blaster in his fights because it is in the fortress of solitaire.


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## 8-Peacock-8 (May 27, 2012)

Cave Jansen said:


> He lives in the island with the master emerald.



Living on the same island =/= having it always


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## Cave Jansen (May 27, 2012)

Well, he said "all out", i thought we could use everything they had. Which includes Knuckles super/hyper forms as well his using of the master emerald.

And he shown being able to carry it in either Sonic Adventures and Sonic All-Stars.


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## Soledad Eterna (May 27, 2012)

jetwaterluffy1 said:


> It is an NLF that he can survive _anything,_ but he can tank anything knuckles is able to dish out, seeing as he can tank earthquake epicenters. If Knuckles had some mountain level feats or more, or subatomic attacks, I might say knuckles, but he doesn't. So wario takes this.



Earthquakes? Since when? In Wario Land Shake It the final boss was damaging him and he didn't had power comparable to that.


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## 8-Peacock-8 (May 27, 2012)

Soledad Eterna said:


> Earthquakes? Since when? In Wario Land Shake It the final boss was damaging him and he didn't had power comparable to that.



You really need to play the Wario Land games for the gameboy

Wario tanked an earthquake in Wario Land (I can't remember if it's 2 or 3)

It was also an earthquake HE caused.


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## Soledad Eterna (May 28, 2012)

Oh, then yeah, he wins.


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## 8-Peacock-8 (May 28, 2012)

Should also note that the earthquake caused a large hole in a mountain side.


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## sonic546 (May 28, 2012)

Round 1 I'd give to Knuckles if only for that treasure sensing thing he had in the Sonic Adventure games.

Round 2 goes to Wario, no question.

Round 3 Wario just waits till Knuckles tires himself out.  Are we allowing Hyper Knuckles from Sonic 3 and Knuckles?


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## Distracted (May 28, 2012)

I'm not too familiar with Wario's feats but I feel like being the devil's advocate, can knuckles potentially win by a ring out in the 3rd scenario?  

One could argue for Knuckles winning scenario 1 by speed, it's not a 100% certainty, but Wario would have the disadvantage.

I think it would be absurd to argue for knuckles to defeat Wario in a golf cart as his greatest advantage (speed) is negated while Wario's greatest advantage (cheating) is allowed.

So then it all comes down to round 3 - - unless you think Wario wins round 1.

If Knuckles has access to some of his higher power ups then he could potentially just knock Wario so far away that he's essentially out of the match.


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## 8-Peacock-8 (May 28, 2012)

Distracted said:


> I'm not too familiar with Wario's feats but I feel like being the devil's advocate, can knuckles potentially win by a ring out in the 3rd scenario?
> 
> One could argue for Knuckles winning scenario 1 by speed, it's not a 100% certainty, but Wario would have the disadvantage.
> 
> ...



Yeah, it's pretty much if the OP allows Knuckles to go Hyper/Super. Otherwise he will eventually be too tired and then Wario will proceeds to snap Knuckles' neck and turn him into a fur coat.


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## Plague (May 29, 2012)

Honestly, a lot of what you guys are using as durability feats for Wario are bullshit, and you know it is. Inconsistent bs. 

Its pretty clear as day that the OP is biased as well.


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## jetwaterluffy1 (May 29, 2012)

Rosuto_and_Meshi said:


> Honestly, a lot of what you guys are using as durability feats for Wario are bullshit, and you know it is. Inconsistent bs.
> 
> Its pretty clear as day that the OP is biased as well.



They happened, they are feats, they contribute to his durability. Why wouldn't they? And when has wario been hurt to contradict them?


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## Negative Zero (May 29, 2012)

Rosuto_and_Meshi said:


> Honestly, a lot of what you guys are using as durability feats for Wario are bullshit, and you know it is. Inconsistent bs.
> 
> Its pretty clear as day that the OP is biased as well.



In what way? Because round 2 is just regular ordinary run of the mill golf carts?


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## TeenRyu (May 29, 2012)

Why is wario able to use power ups yet Knuckles can't? O.o it's kinda laughable that your all like "lol wario can go in his flame mode and burn to ashes" and all that. Let's see feats, cutscenes and everything with that. Calc's and all. Or I call a NLF


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## jetwaterluffy1 (May 29, 2012)

TeenRyu said:


> Why is wario able to use power ups yet Knuckles can't? O.o it's kinda laughable that your all like "lol wario can go in his flame mode and burn to ashes" and all that. Let's see feats, cutscenes and everything with that. Calc's and all. Or I call a NLF



It's not that he "gets" his flame mode. His flame mode is to display his durability feat of surviving getting burnt to ashes. Unless knuckles sets him on fire for some reason, he can't activate it hurt knuckles with fire.


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## 8-Peacock-8 (May 29, 2012)

Ninja'd by jetwatterluffy


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## Cygnus45 (May 29, 2012)

Knuckles has set his fists on fire and burned the air because of how fast he punches. This was displayed in the first SA game when he uses the maximum heat attack

He can tag Sonic. In base, he casually punches boulders over with enough force to make them fly for dozens of meters. In Sonic Heroes, I heard he picked up a battleship on his own. He's stated in game manuals to have mastered dozens of martial arts.

So he can burn Wario, is apparently faster, and is possibly in the same strength class. Round 3 is closer than people think. But Knuckles definitely loses round 2 (Idk why people are even comparing their karting skills) and possibly wins 1 but Wario would be a dangerous opponent with money on his mind and willing to cheat.


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## 8-Peacock-8 (May 29, 2012)

Cygnus45 said:


> Knuckles has set his fists on fire and burned the air because of how fast he punches. This was displayed in the first SA game when he uses the maximum heat attack
> 
> He can tag Sonic. In base, he casually punches boulders over with enough force to make them fly for dozens of meters. In Sonic Heroes, I heard he picked up a battleship on his own. He's stated in game manuals to have mastered dozens of martial arts.
> 
> So he can burn Wario, is apparently faster, and is possibly in the same strength class. Round 3 is closer than people think. But Knuckles definitely loses round 2 (Idk why people are even comparing their karting skills) and possibly wins 1 but Wario would be a dangerous opponent with money on his mind and willing to cheat.



Like nuking the place with a fart that will likely KO Knuckles? 

EDIT: and no one is saying Scenario 3 is a stomp but Wario's far too durable for Knuckles and he's immortal with toonforce themed regen.


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## Cygnus45 (May 29, 2012)

I agree, without his super form Knuckles probably can't put Wario down for good. 

You have to hand it to Knuckles for being manly enough to fight people in their super forms and win (knocking Sonic out, taking on super mecha sonic). It just goes to show how hard he can hit.


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## 8-Peacock-8 (May 29, 2012)

Cygnus45 said:


> I agree, without his super form Knuckles probably can't put Wario down for good.
> 
> You have to hand it to Knuckles for being manly enough to fight people in their super forms and win (knocking Sonic out, taking on super mecha sonic). It just goes to show how hard he can hit.



True, same goes for Wario. He can take out people much stronger then him physically or super power wise. (i.e. Black Jewel and Shake King)


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## Cave Jansen (May 29, 2012)

When did Knuckles picked a battleship in SH? I played the game so freaking much back then and i can't seem to remember it. I know he could break them with his punches in the last stage, but that was after getting powered up by the 7 emeralds.

And i can't get over the fact that people still agree Wario would win comfortably the race. Seeing as Knuckles can gain a boost with his Master Emerald and that he used that power in a kart race (Sonic and Sega All-stars Racing), why shouldn't that count for him? What is the "cheating" that goes for Wario? Will he throw a bomb at Knuckles kart or something? (yes, i freaking logged in for this)


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## 8-Peacock-8 (May 29, 2012)

Cave Jansen said:


> When did Knuckles picked a battleship in SH? I played the game so freaking much back then and i can't seem to remember it. I know he could break them with his punches in the last stage, but that was after getting powered up by the 7 emeralds.
> 
> And i can't get over the fact that people still agree Wario would win comfortably the race. Seeing as Knuckles can gain a boost with his Master Emerald and that he used that power in a kart race (Sonic and Sega All-stars Racing), why shouldn't that count for him? What is the "cheating" that goes for Wario? Will he throw a bomb at Knuckles kart or something? (yes, i freaking logged in for this)



The emerald/All Star Move isn't standard equipment.

It's just a random item people pick up during the race.

There are no items so get over it.


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## Cave Jansen (May 29, 2012)

No, it's more like a personal ability than an item. Much like the Super Smash in Brawl. In the game they are required to get the item in order to use the power-up, but I'm sure such does not apply here.


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## 8-Peacock-8 (May 29, 2012)

Cave Jansen said:


> No, it's more like a personal ability than an item. Much like the Super Smash in Brawl. In the game they are required to get the item in order to use the power-up, but I'm sure such does not apply here.



It's used as an item in the game though.

It also calls into question things like Opa Opa calling out a store while racing or Ryo pulling out a fork lift while racing.

thats not personal ability and thats granted via all star move item.


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## Cave Jansen (May 29, 2012)

It doesn't matter if it's used via item, it still shows that they can use that power. This is not your common item that every character has access too, like the Blue Shell or other.

As for Opa Opa calling out a Store and Ryu pulling out a fork lift, well, Opa Opa is picking up a power (would you deny him the use of that power in a match too?), while Ryu, i can see it more like a comic relief thing as he has pretty much nothing to go for him like the rest of the racers. But in a context, it's their racing abilities.


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## Distracted (May 29, 2012)

It does matter if it's granted by item, because there _are no items for them to use_ in their golf carts.


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## Eldritch Sukima (May 29, 2012)

So how would Wario cheat?

Because without items Knuckles could at least punch both feet through the bottom of the golf kart and turn it into a Flintstones car.


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## 8-Peacock-8 (May 29, 2012)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> So how would Wario cheat?
> 
> Because without items Knuckles could at least punch both feet through the bottom of the golf kart and turn it into a Flintstones car.



Farting 

One hit KO. 

(It's sad how that would actually work)


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## Cygnus45 (May 30, 2012)

If Robotnik can tell Knuckles the same lie twice...

Wario's going to cheat the shit out of him. He hired a staff of like 8 talented people to help him start a multi-million dollar franchise and nearly got away with not paying them a dime. He definitely wins the kart race (come one people, all those mario kart tournaments and he's had some of the fastest vehicles [_double-dash_]) and gives Knux trouble in all 3 scenarios.


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## 8-Peacock-8 (May 30, 2012)

So basically it ends with Wario likely winning the majority of scenarios here.

Because it seems the OP wont allows the Super form.


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## TeenRyu (May 30, 2012)

^which in my opinion is kinda fucked up .


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## Cave Jansen (May 30, 2012)

Distracted said:


> It does matter if it's granted by item, because there _are no items for them to use_ in their golf carts.



I understand. But items are nothing but a gameplay mechanism. As long as the character has shown being able to perform the feat, shouldn't that be enough? I'm not saying Ryu can make fork lifts appear from the sky, but in character fights, a fork lift should be taken as a weapon for him, or am i wrong?


@Cygnus45

rofl


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## 8-Peacock-8 (May 30, 2012)

TeenRyu said:


> ^which in my opinion is kinda fucked up .



True 



Cave Jansen said:


> I understand. But items are nothing but a gameplay mechanism. As long as the character has shown being able to perform the feat, shouldn't that be enough? I'm not saying Ryu can make fork lifts appear from the sky, but in character fights, a fork lift should be taken as a weapon for him, or am i wrong?



it's only done in gameplay with an item, it's invalid.


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