# Yonko vs Admirals



## Shunsuiju (Apr 9, 2021)

Admirals...

Reactions: Funny 9 | Winner 4 | Disagree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 9, 2021)

only real threats were saved for final arc/biggest war

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 5 | Funny 3 | Winner 5 | Optimistic 1


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## Shunsuiju (Apr 9, 2021)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> only real threats were saved for final arc/biggest war


This is the biggest war

Reactions: Funny 3 | Disagree 1 | Optimistic 5


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## OG sama (Apr 9, 2021)

It’s obvious Kaido is stronger than any Admiral besides possibly Akainu.

And I’m definitely taking Shanks over any Admiral besides maybe Akainu as well.

So Yonkos > Admirals has been obvious for a long time imo.

I expect Awakened Admirals to be great though.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 3 | Winner 1 | GODA 1


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## A Optimistic (Apr 9, 2021)

Sengoku was a former Admiral and a confirmed CoC user. Why isn't he included on the wikipage?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4


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## Shunsuiju (Apr 9, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Sengoku was a former Admiral and a confirmed CoC user. Why isn't he included on the wikipage?


I think he is

That's 1/7 for #teamAdmiral
And 4/5 for #teamYonko

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 3


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## A Optimistic (Apr 9, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> I think he is
> 
> That's 1/7 for #teamAdmiral
> And 4/5 for #teamYonko



Oh I didn't realize I had to click "S" to see him lmao.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 9, 2021)

Lol. Kaido’s about to get his cheeks clapped while Akainu’s waiting for the end of the story.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 2 | Winner 4


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## Samehadaman (Apr 9, 2021)

It's almost as if the Yonko had arcs and the Admirals didnt yet..

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2 | Funny 2 | Winner 4


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## Shunsuiju (Apr 9, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Lol. Kaido’s about to get his cheeks clapped while Akainu’s waiting for the end of the story.





Samehadaman said:


> It's almost as if the Yonko had arcs and the Admirals didnt yet..


Conquerors...?


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## Kylo Ren (Apr 9, 2021)

Tier 1 - yonko
Tier 2 - admirals

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 2


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## Great Potato (Apr 9, 2021)

It's premature to say if the Admirals have it or not, since that's something that would likely save until it's most plot relevant. 

Most of these characters didn't show CoC in their first appearance. Dofla was a recurring character pre-skip but we didn't discover his CoC until the very end of Punk Hazard where he was set as the next arc villain.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2 | Winner 5


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## Garcher (Apr 9, 2021)

OG sama said:


> It’s obvious Kaido is stronger than any Admiral besides possibly Akainu.


Kaido couldn't even beat the fat bitch.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 4


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## Shunsuiju (Apr 9, 2021)

Great Potato said:


> It's premature to say if the Admirals have it or not, since that's something that would likely save until it's most plot relevant.
> 
> Most of these characters didn't show CoC in their first appearance. Dofla was a recurring character pre-skip but we didn't discover his CoC until the very end of Punk Hazard where he was set as the next arc villain.


Year: 2025
Chapter number: 1434

Every top tier has CoC

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3


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## Samehadaman (Apr 9, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Conquerors...?



Non shitposting...?

Reactions: Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Deleted member 58423 (Apr 9, 2021)




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## Garcher (Apr 9, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> This is the biggest war


biggest war without the strongest faction?

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Fujitora (Apr 9, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Sengoku was a former Admiral and a confirmed CoC user. Why isn't he included on the wikipage?


Sengoku and Garp carried the marines of ol' with the CoC coating

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Fujitora (Apr 9, 2021)

Garcher said:


> Kaido couldn't even beat the fat bitch.


And? You act as if its confirmed any admiral can beat her lmao.

Reactions: Winner 5 | Informative 1 | Disagree 1


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## Red Admiral (Apr 9, 2021)

Yonko : strongest individual 
Admirals : strongest team

Yonko > Admiral was a fact for majority of one piece fans since very long ago

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Sablés (Apr 9, 2021)

It was confirmed when 2 admirals fought 4 revolutionary commanders, and Fujitora ended up in bandages and stitches. Sabo was Dragon's right-hand even before getting the Mera fruit. Meanwhile Kaido and Big Mom babyshake commanders they fought.

Admirals have better presentation than Yonko and are treated with more dignity in the story, but the Yonko's feats eclipse theirs.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 7 | Funny 2 | Winner 2


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## DeVision (Apr 9, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Lol. Kaido’s about to get his cheeks clapped while Akainu’s waiting for the end of the story.



2nd place is the first loser. But a loser nevertheless.


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## Shunsuiju (Apr 9, 2021)

Garcher said:


> biggest war without the strongest faction?


The Strawhat Pirate Alliance?

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 2


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## Dark Knight (Apr 9, 2021)

People hyping up sakazuki's role in the final arc are going to be butthurt when he ends up fighting sabo instead of luffy.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3 | Funny 7 | Winner 3 | GODA 1 | Disagree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## A Optimistic (Apr 9, 2021)

OniKaido said:


> Sengoku and Garp carried the marines of ol' with the CoC coating



Prime Garp is for sure top 5 strongest characters of all time. His feats are insane.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4


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## Garcher (Apr 9, 2021)

OniKaido said:


> And? You act as if its confirmed any admiral can beat her lmao.


It is at the very least confirmed that Kaido is just the world's strongest rumour and can easily be matched by others. So whether or not Kaido is "obviously stronger" than the Admirals is still up in the air just as it is still up in the air whether the Yonko are decisively stronger than the Admirals or not.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Seraphoenix (Apr 9, 2021)

It's been official for a while. It's looking especially ugly now that we can see Kaido able to do the same thing Primebeard and Roger did in terms of haki.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Duhul10 (Apr 9, 2021)

Oda confirmed this when he put Kaido above Akainu, not to mention that Yonkos are above even as a general level. This chapter was just another nail in the coffin with the CoC stuff. This is with all due respect to admirals who are literal monsters themselves.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 2 | Disagree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 9, 2021)

CoC isnt a Win button

admirals will fight stronger SHs than yonkou

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 9, 2021)

DeVision said:


> 2nd place is the first loser. But a loser nevertheless.


Who’s second place?

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Fujitora (Apr 9, 2021)

Garcher said:


> It is at the very least confirmed that Kaido is just the world's strongest rumour and can easily be matched by others. So whether or not Kaido is "obviously stronger" than the Admirals is still up in the air just as it is still up in the air whether the Yonko are decisively stronger than the Admirals or not.


I can agree with that fam.


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## Shunsuiju (Apr 9, 2021)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> CoC isnt a Win button
> 
> *admirals will fight stronger SHs than yonkou*


Like Sanji right

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 2


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 9, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Sanji


who

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Shunsuiju (Apr 9, 2021)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> who


The fourth strongest SH

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 4


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## Canute87 (Apr 9, 2021)

Stronger than Fujitora indeed.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 9, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> The fourth strongest SH


Luffy > Zoro > Yamato > Jinbei > Robin/Franky

Reactions: Funny 1 | Neutral 1 | Disagree 1


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## Duhul10 (Apr 9, 2021)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> CoC isnt a Win button
> 
> admirals will fight stronger SHs than yonkou


1vs1. Inb4 Sanji gets 1 vs 1 with Kizaru

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Red Admiral (Apr 9, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Prime Garp is for sure top 5 strongest characters of all time. His feats are insane.



CoC can hype Garp A LOT ... he can be a full master of CoC

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 9, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Sanji


who

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Duhul10 (Apr 9, 2021)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> who


The cook, the guy who, you know, has done nothing notable in Wano thus far. He's coming for Kizaru's ass

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 9, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> The cook, the guy who, you know, has done nothing notable in Wano thus far. He's coming for Kizaru's ass


best he can manage is to roll a joint for Kizaru

Reactions: Funny 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Kanki (Apr 9, 2021)

Sablés said:


> It was confirmed when 2 admirals fought 4 revolutionary commanders, and Fujitora ended up in bandages and stitches. Sabo was Dragon's right-hand even before getting the Mera fruit. Meanwhile Kaido and Big Mom babyshake commanders they fought.
> 
> Admirals have better presentation than Yonko and are treated with more dignity in the story, but the Yonko's feats eclipse theirs.


It's quite damning but still explainable if the two Admirals were trying to protect the location as well.


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## Chrollo Lucilfer (Apr 9, 2021)

Kaido might be suicidal, but soon as he heard about the new SSG he sure came up with a plan to stay alive by teaming up wth bm and gathering the ancient weapons , i thought he wanted to go out like WB

Reactions: Like 1 | GODA 1


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## Mariko (Apr 9, 2021)



Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 5 | Winner 2 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## TheOmega (Apr 9, 2021)

What a time to be alive

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Mariko (Apr 9, 2021)

TheOmega said:


> What a time to be alive



Imagine ppl dying from covid before 1010.

Imagine how salty ppl are up there rn?  

Not sure god even leaked them the korean spoilers. 

Or he just gave them the sketch.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 9, 2021)

call me when a CoC using yonkou can walk off 2 bloodlusted quakes

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 3 | Winner 3 | Neutral 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## rext1 (Apr 9, 2021)

Before you can 1v1 an Admiral - you must train by destroying a Yonko 1v1

Reactions: Funny 4 | Winner 3 | Tier Specialist 2


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## chaintoad (Apr 9, 2021)

insane performance by big mom, showing once again how powerful CoC is in a fight between top tiers.


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## Mariko (Apr 9, 2021)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> call me when a CoC using yonkou can walk off 2 bloodlusted quakes



Only Akainu survived half ded and sick old WB's hits.

Cause he's the strongest admiral and the only one able to match half ded sick old WB.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 5 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 9, 2021)

Mariko said:


> Only Akainu survived half ded and sick old WB's hits.
> 
> Cause he's the strongest admiral and the only one able to match half ded sick old WB.


Akainu = 100
Aokiji = 99
canon




> half ded sick old


only affects his speed/ durability, not attack power
same as Zoro

bloodlusted quakes = strongest attacks in the series

Reactions: Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 4


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## Delta Shell (Apr 9, 2021)

Garp has it for sure

Reactions: Like 1


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## Delta Shell (Apr 9, 2021)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Akainu = 100
> Aokiji = 99
> canon
> 
> ...


Affects his Haki too


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## Duhul10 (Apr 9, 2021)

Admiral gang turned the alarm on with the last chapter. Like Constantinople in the last day of the Siege.

Reactions: Funny 12


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## Mariko (Apr 9, 2021)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Akainu = 100
> Aokiji = 99
> canon
> 
> ...



Until Roof Piece dogboy.

You know it. 

RTP standards:

Shanks - BB
Kaidou - Luffy -Zoro
BM

Akainu


Kizaru - Fujitora - GB

Warlords - Jinbei - Franky - Robin 

Nami

Usopp

Chopper







Sanji.
















Kid.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Apr 9, 2021)

Rent-free.


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## Turrin (Apr 9, 2021)

I have extreme doubts Akainu isn’t beating Big Meme and Laidou at this point

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Shunsuiju (Apr 9, 2021)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> Rent-free.


If I could I wouldn't have made CoC such a big deal. But that's how the cookie crumbles


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## Duhul10 (Apr 9, 2021)

Turrin said:


> I have extreme doubts Akainu isn’t beating Big Meme and Laidou at this point


That's been your opinion for years. Don't try to make it look as if this arc made you change your mind or anything bro.

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 9, 2021)

Turrin is a prophet

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Duhul10 (Apr 9, 2021)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Turrin is a prophet


You, my boy, will need daily penance so that admirals don't get solo'd by a SH each.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Informative 1


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## Mihawk (Apr 9, 2021)

Great Potato said:


> It's premature to say if the Admirals have it or not, since that's something that would likely save until it's most plot relevant.
> 
> Most of these characters didn't show CoC in their first appearance. Dofla was a recurring character pre-skip but we didn't discover his CoC until the very end of Punk Hazard where he was set as the next arc villain.


This. 



Shunsuiju said:


> The fourth strongest SH



Man that pic looking cold asf. They lookin smoooooth. 


Shiba D. Inu said:


> Turrin is a prophet



He did predict Imu from the start

Reactions: Like 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 9, 2021)

Yonkotards are setting themselves up for disapointment. Kaido is getting his cheeks clapped in Wano. Akainu is probably the final villain. There’s also no reason to believe that there’s a massive gap in power between the Admirals.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 4 | Optimistic 3


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## A Optimistic (Apr 9, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Akainu is probably the final villain.

Reactions: Agree 4 | Winner 2


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## Shunsuiju (Apr 9, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Yonkotards are setting themselves up for disapointment. Kaido is getting his cheeks clapped in Wano. Akainu is probably the final villain. There’s also no reason to believe that there’s a massive gin power between the Admirals.


None of this means anything if they don't have conquerors.


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## Cursemark (Apr 9, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Yonkotards are setting themselves up for disapointment. Kaido is getting his cheeks clapped in Wano. Akainu is probably the final villain. There’s also no reason to believe that there’s a massive gin power between the Admirals.


Kaido is canonically already viewed as the strongest in OP so I’m not sure why you admiraltards keep trying to put Akainu or any admiral above him or on his level.
There’s also no way in hell Akainu is the final villain.

Reactions: Like 6 | Funny 1 | Winner 1 | Disagree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 9, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> None of this means anything if they don't have conquerors.


Until recently, wasn’t even confirmed that Roger had CoC. Most likely, all of the Admirals have it. Garp too.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shunsuiju (Apr 9, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Until recently, wasn’t even confirmed that Roger had CoC. *Most likely, all of the Admirals have it*. Garp too.


Based on what? Until then: Yonko > Admirals.


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 9, 2021)

Cursemark said:


> Kaido is canonically already viewed as the strongest in OP so I’m not sure why you admiraltards keep trying to put Akainu or any admiral above him or on his level.
> There’s also no way in hell Akainu is the final villain.


Nope. He really isn’t.

Akainu gave Luffy his scar. Akainu killed his brother. Akainu is the strongest known fighter that the World Government has. Whitebeard says that the final war against the World Government, comes after finding One Piece. He almost certainly is going to be the final villain. Even if he isn’t, he’s still going to be fought near the end of the story. Kaido is getting his cheeks clapped in Wanoby much weaker pirates than th ones Akainu will be facing.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 9, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Based on what? Until then: Yonko > Admirals.


What did you base Roger having CoC on before Chapter 966? Having CoC doesn’t mean they’re better either.


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## Turrin (Apr 9, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> That's been your opinion for years. Don't try to make it look as if this arc made you change your mind or anything bro.


The arc could have changed my opinion if events differed from my expectations. But so far BM has underperformed to my expectations and Kaidou is pretty much in line with them, or performing marginally better, but not enough to really alter my doubts that he could loose to Akainu and Kizaru

Reactions: Winner 1 | Friendly 1


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Apr 9, 2021)

Nah. Akainu/Garp >>>


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## Turrin (Apr 9, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> You, my boy, will need daily penance so that admirals don't get solo'd by a SH each.


I believe some Admirals will get beaten 1v1 by Straw-Hats. People seem to think I’m an Admiral-Fan just because I don’t believe Kaidou  definitely beats them 1v1

Reactions: Like 1 | Friendly 1


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## RossellaFiamingo (Apr 9, 2021)

We already knew this when the likes of Morley and Dinkleberg put Fujji in a wheel chair

Reactions: Like 5 | Winner 2


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## GrizzlyClaws (Apr 9, 2021)

Admiralbros in this thread.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2 | Winner 1


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## Shunsuiju (Apr 9, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> What did you base Roger having CoC on before Chapter 966? Having CoC doesn’t mean they’re better either.


Based on Roger being the Pirate King.

Do the Admirals have it or not?


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## blessedboi2 (Apr 9, 2021)

Tier 1: Alien Race Imu
Tier 2: EOS Luffy and Zoro
Tier 3: Roger and Whitebeard 
Tier 4: Yonkou
Tier 5: Admirals 

Before the war arc nobody thought Naruto and Sauske could solo their entire universe. Y’all better get used to power creep. There isn’t a single modern shounen anime where the main protagonists weren’t massively above everyone else.

Goku/Vegeta
Naruto/Sauske
Adult Gon
Future Deku

Etc.


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## Mariko (Apr 9, 2021)

blessedboi2 said:


> Tier 1: Alien Race Imu



Stfu.

Oda's reading this section for his plot FFS!!!

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Sablés (Apr 9, 2021)

Kanki said:


> It's quite damning but still explainable if the two Admirals were trying to protect the location as well.


Sure but when

1) Luffy bruised Fujitora with G3, pre-WCI
2) Zoro shocked Fujiotra with a slash
3) DD gets shit scared at the thought Kaido being angry with him, but thinks nothing of antagonizing and _attacking _Fujitora

It paints a clear picture to me. Lots points to Yonko > Admirals. _Nothing _suggests the reverse.


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## ClannadFan (Apr 9, 2021)

If anything, this chapter confirms that at the VERY LEAST, Admirals=Yonkou, likely stronger.

Luffy 1v1 Kaido.

If Luffy wins, which he likely will, then that makes it much more likely that the Admirals are stronger or equal to Yonkous, atleast Kaido and Big Mom. Unless you believe Luffy will mid diff the Admirals next arc. If you do, then you just don't have a good understanding of the manga.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Sablés (Apr 9, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> If anything, this chapter confirms that at the VERY LEAST, Admirals=Yonkou, likely stronger.


Might want to look up the word 'confirm' in a dictionary


ClannadFan said:


> If Luffy wins, which he likely will, then that makes it much more likely that the Admirals are stronger or equal to Yonkous, atleast Kaido and Big Mom. Unless you believe Luffy will mid diff the Admirals next arc. If you do, then you just don't have a good understanding of the manga.


>If
>likely
>unless you believe
>if
Amazing how you can speculate (wrongly) so much then pretend like you're spitting facts. 

And yeah, I have no problems believing Luffy would mid-diff Admirals if he ends up being stronger than Kaido. Their time has passed. But it's possible Luffy won't be stronger than Kaido just yet, so this is pointless grandstanding.


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## A Optimistic (Apr 9, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> Luffy 1v1 Kaido.



It's a 1v1 when Kaido has fought the Scabbards, Zoro, Law, Kidd, and Killer?


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## Shunsuiju (Apr 9, 2021)

After Luffy beats Kaido, he will beat an Admiral who is not Akainu as well and with less difficulty. Not that hard to understand.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 9, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Yonkotards are setting themselves up for disapointment. Kaido is getting his cheeks clapped in Wano. Akainu is probably the final villain. There’s also no reason to believe that there’s a massive gin power between the Admirals.


That’s not really relevant. It doesn’t mean that he had CoC at all. You just assumed that. CoC is something people are born with. Why would someone born with CoC, lose it because they joined the Navy. We already know for a fact that at least one Admiral had CoC.


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## ClannadFan (Apr 9, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> It's a 1v1 when Kaido has fought the Scabbards, Zoro, Law, Kidd, and Killer?


Before 1010, every Yonkou fan was saying that he's taken zero damage. Why are you guys changing your tune now?

Reactions: Winner 1 | Disagree 2


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## Sablés (Apr 9, 2021)

For real though. Someone point to what exactly the admirals have that makes them stronger than a Yonko.

I mean, besides beating on a sick old man dying from chronic heart attacks.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 9, 2021)

Akainu has better feats than Kaido

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## A Optimistic (Apr 9, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> Before 1010, every Yonkou fan was saying that he's taken zero damage. Why are you guys changing your tune now?



I assume you're excluding 1010 because you know Kaido took damage that has weakened him therefore it's not a proper 1v1, correct?


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## ClannadFan (Apr 9, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> I assume you're excluding 1010 because you know Kaido took damage that has weakened him therefore it's not a proper 1v1, correct?


No, I'm mentioning it because when it wasn't a 1v1 you guys wanted to use the "fact" that he took zero damage to hype him up. Now that it's a 1v1, you guys need to pull out the excuses now, because you know Luffy will win. And yeah Kaido took damage in 1010 from Zoro, but what's that gotta do with the Scabbards, Kidd, Law and Killer that you brought up?


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## A Optimistic (Apr 9, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> No, I'm mentioning it because when it wasn't a 1v1 you guys wanted to use the "fact" that he took zero damage to hype him up. Now that it's a 1v1, you guys need to pull out the excuses now, because you know Luffy will win. And yeah Kaido took damage in 1010 from Zoro, but what's that gotta do with the Scabbards, Kidd, Law and Killer that you brought up?



Why do keep saying you guys? Someone disagreeing with you doesn't make them a Kaido fan.

Anyways your argument was that Admirals > Kaido because Luffy is having a 1v1 with Kaido now and will have a 1v1 with Admirals later. But Luffy is not having a fair 1v1 with Kaido now as established by the latest chapter.

So your entire logic falls apart.


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## Shunsuiju (Apr 9, 2021)

I really don't know how Kaido being superior to Fujitora, Greenbull or Kizaru is so hard to understand.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ClannadFan (Apr 9, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Why do keep saying you guys? Someone disagreeing with you doesn't make them a Kaido fan.
> 
> Anyways your argument was that Admirals > Kaido because Luffy is having a 1v1 with Kaido now and will have a 1v1 with Admirals later. But Luffy is not having a fair 1v1 with Kaido now as established by the latest chapter.
> 
> So your entire logic falls apart.


So when Luffy beat Doffy what did you think about that? Law definetly hit Doffy with his GK. Even if you don't think it was a fair 1v1, even you would have to admit that it meant that Luffy was ATLEAST close to Doffys lvl right? So if we use that same logic for Luffy vs Kaido, then Luffy should be close to Kaido post Wano, right? So if he fights the Admirals next arc, where he is expected to be stronger than he is now, then would that not mean that Admirals are ATLEAST as strong as the Yonkou? I've never claimed outright that Admirals>Yonkou, we've gotta see them in action more. But all things point to them being around the same lvl. So you guys who claim that theres NO WAY the Admirals are EVEN CLOSE to the Yonkou, yeah yall are fanboys.


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## Lawliet (Apr 9, 2021)

I don't think people understand how strong Akainu is going to be.


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## Sablés (Apr 9, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> So if he fights the Admirals next arc, where he is expected to be stronger than he is now, then would that not mean that Admirals are ATLEAST as strong as the Yonkou?


Depends.
How does Luffy beat Kaido?
Where is the guarantee that Luffy, presuming he is around or stronger than Kaido, would have an even fight with an admiral?

Reactions: Like 1


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## ClannadFan (Apr 9, 2021)

Sablés said:


> Depends.
> How does Luffy beat Kaido?
> Where is the guarantee that Luffy, presuming he is around or stronger than Kaido, would have an even fight with an admiral?


Yeah it all depends how it goes down. But given One Piece's history, we can assume the fight will go down similarly to when Luffy beat Lucci, Doffy and Katakuri. He beats them, is essentially on thier lvl, but its debateable if he could of won if not for the plot.

Also thats why I said IF he fights an Admiral.


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## Captain Altintop (Apr 9, 2021)

I roughly put Yonko ~ Admirals with slightest advantage for Yonkos.

*Overall *the 4 Yonko vs 4 Admirals would lead to an *extreme *(_mid_) difficulty *victory for the Yonko. *
For example by this matchups:

Shanks beats Akainu *extreme *(_high_) difficulty
Kaido beats Kizaru *extreme *(_mid_) difficulty
Big Mum beats Fujitora *extreme *(_low_) difficulty
Teach beats Ryokugyu *extreme *(_low_) difficulty. 


Shanks ~ Kaido ~ Akainu 
Big Mum ~ Teach ~ Kizaru
Fujitora ~ Ryokugyu

Reactions: Neutral 1


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## Ruse (Apr 9, 2021)

Not too late to invest in Shanks stocks btw

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


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## Duhul10 (Apr 9, 2021)

MashDaddy said:


> I don't think people understand how strong Akainu is going to be.


2 hits from deadbeard put him down and he needed the "extremest" diff possible against aokiji who was being stalemated by Jozu. While monsters in their own right, the difference in power is visible when compared to yonkos.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 2 | Disagree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 9, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> 2 hits from deadbeard put him down and he needed the "extremest" diff possible against aokiji who was being stalemated by Jozu. While monsters in their own right, the difference in power is visible when compared to yonkos.


Nope. Two hits from bloodlusted Whitebeard didn’t put him down. He went on to go head to head with the strongest people in Whitebeards Crew at the same time. He also melted Whitebeards brain with 1 punch.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Duhul10 (Apr 9, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Nope. Two hits from bloodlusted Whitebeard didn’t put him down. He went on to go head to head with the strongest people in Whitebeards Crew at the same time. He also melted Whitebeards brain with 1 punch.


He went for a trip for 2 chapters. Melting a nearly dead man's head who could be cut by any fodder. Is it supposed to be impressive? Wb could be tagged and cut by anyone as we have seen. 
He went on to fight 2 more important commanders and some no names, while he himself had marines with him. His victims? Curiel.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## X18999 (Apr 9, 2021)

Sablés said:


> It was confirmed when 2 admirals fought 4 revolutionary commanders, and Fujitora ended up in bandages and stitches. Sabo was Dragon's right-hand even before getting the Mera fruit. Meanwhile Kaido and Big Mom babyshake commanders they fought.
> 
> *Admirals have better presentation than Yonko and are treated with more dignity in the story, but the Yonko's feats eclipse theirs.*



That's only going to last until it time for them to lose and they'll probably look worse than Big Mom.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## MO (Apr 9, 2021)

I always knew. Since my girls introduction in fishman island.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 9, 2021)

Kizaru > BM


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 9, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> He went for a trip for 2 chapters. Melting a nearly dead man's head who could be cut by any fodder. Is it supposed to be impressive? Wb could be tagged and cut by anyone as we have seen.
> He went on to fight 2 more important commanders and some no names, while he himself had marines with him. His victims? Curiel.


Sweet. Then why didn’t anyone else punch through Whitebeards head?

He fought all of the Commanders except Jozu, because Aokiji clapped his cheeks. They attacked him combined and still failed to overpower him. Blackbeard and his entire Crew ran when they saw him c9m8ng.


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## Lawliet (Apr 9, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> 2 hits from deadbeard put him down and he needed the "extremest" diff possible against aokiji who was being stalemated by Jozu. While monsters in their own right, the difference in power is visible when compared to yonkos.


I love how people say deadbeard as if whitebeard suddenly became close to death for unknown reasons. You do know Akainu is basically the one that killed WB? You also know Akainu was not down? Remember when he faced the entire WB commanders?

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Sablés (Apr 9, 2021)

MashDaddy said:


> You do know Akainu


and heart failure
and sickness
and squardo
and aokiji
and kizaru
and the multitudes of injuries he received from the nameless folk



ClannadFan said:


> Yeah it all depends how it goes down. But given One Piece's history, we can assume the fight will go down similarly to when Luffy beat Lucci, Doffy and Katakuri. He beats them, is essentially on thier lvl, but its debateable if he could of won if not for the plot.


Assumption upon assumption, does not make a credible argument, which is why I'm shocked that you were calling it a fact.


ClannadFan said:


> Also thats why I said IF he fights an Admiral.


I said an "even fight"

Reactions: Like 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 9, 2021)

Sablés said:


> and heart failure
> and sickness
> and squardo
> and aokiji
> ...


How easily do you think Luffy will beat Akainu by the end of the story, if he’s so far beneath a lesser villain like Kaido?


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## Sablés (Apr 9, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> How easily do you think Luffy will beat Akainu by the end of the story, if he’s so far beneath a lesser villain like Kaido?


Don't know, I'm not psychic and I'm not Oda. How can I talk about what will happen to Akainu, when I don't even know what will happen to _Kaido_?

I work with the info as presented.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 9, 2021)

Sablés said:


> Don't know, I'm not psychic and I'm not Oda. How can I talk about what will happen to Akainu, when I don't even know what will happen to _Kaido_?
> 
> I work with the info as presented.


That’s such a weak answer. Luffy’s the main character and his goal is to become the Pirate King. By the end of the story, he’s almost certainly going to be stronger than the Yonko. After finding One Piece, there‘s going to be a war with the World Government. The Admirals are the strongest force in the World Government. Akainu is the Fleet Admiral, he scarred Luffy and he killed Luffy’s brother. Luffy will fight Akainu by that point. A version of Luffy that’s stronger than Luffy will fight an Admiral. If the Yonko are comfortably above the Admirals, how is Akainu going to be a threat? Luffy would stomp him.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 3


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## Sablés (Apr 9, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> That’s such a weak answer.


It's called "not jumping the gun" or alternatively "talking out of your ass".

Not a fan of either. Before even getting into the possibility of Luffy vs Akainu. At least wait until Luffy vs Kaido ends.


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## Duhul10 (Apr 9, 2021)

MashDaddy said:


> I love how people say deadbeard as if whitebeard suddenly became close to death for unknown reasons. You do know Akainu is basically the one that killed WB? You also know Akainu was not down? Remember when he faced the entire WB commanders?


Wb had suffered serious injuries aside from his heart attacks prior to his last encounter with Akainu. 
Yes, Akainu faced  3 YC level fighters iirc and some no names while he himself had fodders with him and couldn't actually overpower the commanders

Reactions: Winner 1


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## ClannadFan (Apr 9, 2021)

Sablés said:


> Assumption upon assumption, does not make a credible argument, which is why I'm shocked that you were calling it a fact.
> 
> I said an "even fight"


Where did I call it a fact? I clearly said "If anything, this means that Admirals=Yonkou"

If anything, means if we could take anything from the chapter it would be that the portrayal of the Admirals and Yonkou will be closer than many Yonkou fans would like to admit. Because clearly this thread title claims the opposite. If the fight stayed 5v2 the entire time, and then Luffy beat an Admiral next arc without a major power up, then sure maybe Yonkou>Admirals, maybe. But now that its 1v1 that definetly throws out the notion that the Yonkou are on some godly tier that the Admirals just have no business being disscussed in the same breath with.


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## TheOmega (Apr 9, 2021)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> call me when a CoC using yonkou can walk off 2 bloodlusted quakes



Last I checked big bad doggy went from bloodlust to frozen stiff when a non sick non old non heartstabbed Yonko got in his face

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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 9, 2021)

Sablés said:


> It's called "not jumping the gun" or alternatively "talking out of your ass".
> 
> Not a fan of either. Before even getting into the possibility of Luffy vs Akainu. At least wait until Luffy vs Kaido ends.


No. It’s called a dodge. The point is obvious. Luffy will fight Akainu again eventually. That’s as set in stone as Zoro vsl Mihawk and Luffy vs. Blackbeard. If Akainu is significantly beneath the Emperors, Luffy is going to wipe the floor with him. It seems a bit anticlimactic.


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 9, 2021)

TheOmega said:


> Last I checked big bad doggy went from bloodlust to frozen stiff when a non sick non old non heartstabbed Yonko got in his face


Nope. You’re mixing up the anime with the manga.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Ezekjuninor (Apr 9, 2021)

Admiral fans still think Akainu will be Luffy's EoS opponent even though he's already this strong at least 300 chapters before EoS  . I wish I could be this optimistic.

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 9, 2021)

Ezekjuninor said:


> Admiral fans still think Akainu will be Luffy's EoS opponent even though he's already this strong at least 300 chapters before EoS  . I wish I could be this optimistic.


You don’t think Luffy is getting a rematch with the strongest Marine and the man who killed his brother right in front of him? He also left a massive scar on his chest?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TheOmega (Apr 9, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Nope. You’re mixing up the anime with the manga.



Doubtful


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## Ezekjuninor (Apr 9, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> You don’t think Luffy is getting a rematch with the strongest Marine and the man who killed his brother right in front of him? He also left a massive scar on his chest?


No, I don't cause it makes no sense for Akainu to be a strong enough threat. The only way I could see that happening is if his body was modified by Vegapunk but I find that unlikely. Do you really think Luffy will defeat BB who has the 2 most OP DF combination and then we're meant to somehow see Akainu as a bigger threat in the next arc? 

Or that Luffy who will go head2head with Kaidou, likely gain at least 2 more power-ups until EoS and you think he'll still have a close fight with Akainu? It just doesn't make sense for Akainu to be Luffy's final villain. I see Akainu losing to Sabo EoS while Luffy fights Imu.

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## TheOmega (Apr 9, 2021)

Ezekjuninor said:


> No, I don't cause it makes no sense for Akainu to be a strong enough threat. The only way I could see that happening is if his body was modified by Vegapunk but I find that unlikely. Do you really think Luffy will defeat BB who has the 2 most OP DF combination and then we're meant to somehow see Akainu as a bigger threat in the next arc?
> 
> Or that Luffy who will go head2head with Kaidou, likely gain at least 2 more power-ups until EoS and you think he'll still have a close fight with Akainu? It just doesn't make sense for Akainu to be Luffy's final villain. I see Akainu losing to Sabo EoS while Luffy fights Imu.



Luffy's gonna go beat that bum Akainu when it's time to Marineford 2.0 and save Sabo, Buggy & Hancock

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Friendly 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 9, 2021)

TheOmega said:


> Doubtful


Go ahead and check. The Anime had him look afraid of Whitebeard, that never happened in the manga.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Sablés (Apr 9, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> Where did I call it a fact? I clearly said "If anything, this means that Admirals=Yonkou"
> 
> If anything, means if we could take anything from the chapter it would be that the portrayal of the Admirals and Yonkou will be closer than many Yonkou fans would like to admit. Because clearly this thread title claims the opposite. If the fight stayed 5v2 the entire time, and then Luffy beat an Admiral next arc without a major power up, then sure maybe Yonkou>Admirals, maybe. But now that its 1v1 that definetly throws out the notion that the Yonkou are on some godly tier that the Admirals just have no business being disscussed in the same breath with.


You have no idea how Kaido will lose, so this claim is impossible to make. You are also making the assumption that an admiral would be a match for Luffy after this.


Lee-Sensei said:


> No. It’s called a dodge. The point is obvious. Luffy will fight Akainu again eventually. That’s as set in stone as Zoro vsl Mihawk and Luffy vs. Blackbeard. If Akainu is significantly beneath the Emperors, Luffy is going to wipe the floor with him. It seems a bit anticlimactic.


Do you think this is DBZ? No wait, even DBZ isn't always that straightforward.

How is Luffy vs Akainu set in stone? How do we know Akainu won't be taken out by either Teach or Sabo? How do we know it won't be a three-way between Luffy/Akainu/BB where individual power isn't enough? How do we know Luffy won't be debilitated somehow to give Akainu a shot? How do we know Akainu won't be empowered? How do we know that Kaido will actually lose in a 1v1 instead of Luffy getting some momentary powerup he can't readily access? There are a million possible angles available to us. Not just the one you want to see. Oda will decide that.

For NOW we can only work with what we know, so what feats do the admirals have that rank with the yonko?


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 9, 2021)

Ezekjuninor said:


> No, I don't cause it makes no sense for Akainu to be a strong enough threat. The only way I could see that happening is if his body was modified by Vegapunk but I find that unlikely. Do you really think Luffy will defeat BB who has the 2 most OP DF combination and then we're meant to somehow see Akainu as a bigger threat in the next arc?
> 
> Or that Luffy who will go head2head with Kaidou, likely gain at least 2 more power-ups until EoS and you think he'll still have a close fight with Akainu? It just doesn't make sense for Akainu to be Luffy's final villain. I see Akainu losing to Sabo EoS while Luffy fights Imu.


It makes plenty of sense. I don’t think Akainu will be stronger than Blackbeard. I do think that he’ll be strong enough to give EOS Luffy a high diff fight. To think that Luffy isn’t going to fight the strongest Marine, the guys killed his brother, scarred him and broke his will, is utterly bizarre from a narrative standpoint. I’d bet my left nut that Luffy fights Akainu in the end. At this point he’s much more invested in going after him than Blackbeard.


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 9, 2021)

Sablés said:


> You have no idea how Kaido will lose, so this claim is impossible to make. You are also making the assumption that an admiral would be a match for Luffy after this.
> 
> Do you think this is DBZ? No wait, even DBZ isn't always that straightforward.
> 
> ...


Because that’s the way this narrative works. Do you think Luffy won’t fight Blackbeard and Zoro won’t fight Mihawk too?


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## Sablés (Apr 9, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Because that’s the way this narrative works. Do you think Luffy won’t fight Blackbeard and Zoro won’t fight Mihawk too?


 



Sablés said:


> How do we know it won't be a three-way between Luffy/Akainu/BB where individual power isn't enough? How do we know Luffy won't be debilitated somehow to give Akainu a shot? How do we know Akainu won't be empowered? How do we know that Kaido will actually lose in a 1v1 instead of Luffy getting some momentary powerup he can't readily access?


How about you read the posts you're replying to next time. Even IF Luffy vs Akainu is set, that does not have to reflect power levels as they presently stand.


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## Galyus (Apr 9, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Go ahead and check. The Anime had him look afraid of Whitebeard, that never happened in the manga.


Why does anyone even bring even bring in the anime. It's already been shown to be a separate universe by repeatedly contradicting the manga. Or are you telling me that Akainu has an apprentice who doesn't act anything like his ideals.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 9, 2021)

Sablés said:


>


The other part is irrelevant. Do you also think that Zoro won’t fight Mihawk and Luffy won’t fight Blackbeard.


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## Sablés (Apr 9, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> The other part is irrelevant.


It reaaaally isn't.

I'm saying even if your (unconfirmed) beliefs do come true, it doesn't have to happen the way you want it to. There is no guarantee that Akainu will remain the same as he is now. There is no guarantee that it will be a straight 1 v 1 between him and Luffy at their peak. There isn't even a guarantee that Luffy will end up as strong as Kaido here.

You want to talk weak arguments? It's you dodging a comparison of admirals vs yonko with the extensive knowledge present, and instead of defaulting to shit we haven't seen yet, and have zero certainty on. So will you address any of that, or will you stonewall?

Reactions: Like 2


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 9, 2021)

Galyus said:


> Why does anyone even bring even bring in the anime. It's already been shown to be a separate universe by repeatedly contradicting the manga. Or are you telling me that Akainu has an apprentice who doesn't act anything like his ideals.


What are you talking about?

Reactions: GODA 1


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## TheOmega (Apr 9, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Go ahead and check. The Anime had him look afraid of Whitebeard, that never happened in the manga.







I wanna fight so much that I'm gonna kill my own soldier for even suggesting that we stop the violence.........!!!!OH SHIT!!!!SHANKSSAMA WHATCHA DOIN HERE???!! OH WE'S NOT DOIN NOTHIN BAD. STOP FIGHTING? YESS SIR SHANKSSAMA YOU GOT IT!! OH AND YOU WANT TO TAKE OUR BATTLE TROPHIES YESSIR SHANKSSAMA HERE YOU GO. I EVEN PICKED UP THE BEADS FOR YOU

Reactions: Funny 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 9, 2021)

Sablés said:


> It reaaaally isn't.
> 
> I'm saying even if your (unconfirmed) beliefs do come true, it doesn't have to happen the way you want it to. There is no guarantee that Akainu will remain the same as he is now. There is no guarantee that it will be a straight 1 v 1 between him and Luffy at their peak. There isn't even a guarantee that Luffy will end up as strong as Kaido here.
> 
> You want to talk weak arguments? It's you dodging a comparison of admirals vs yonko with the extensive knowledge present, and instead of defaulting to shit we haven't seen yet, and have zero certainty on. So will you address any of that, or will you stonewall?


Do you think Mihawk is going to get stronger or be weakened when Zoro fights him? Could you just answer that?

No. I’ve already adressed the Emperor and Admiral comparisons many times.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 9, 2021)

TheOmega said:


> I wanna fight so much that I'm gonna kill my own soldier for even suggesting that we stop the violence.........!!!!OH SHIT!!!!SHANKSSAMA WHATCHA DOIN HERE???!! OH WE'S NOT DOIN NOTHIN BAD. STOP FIGHTING? YESS SIR SHANKSSAMA YOU GOT IT!! OH AND YOU WANT TO TAKE OUR BATTLE TROPHIES YESSIR SHANKSSAMA HERE YOU GO. I EVEN PICKED UP THE BEADS FOR YOU


Guy who lost his arm to a fish says what? Imagine being this delusional.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Sablés (Apr 9, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Do you think Mihawk is going to get stronger


No. Mihawk has no reason to get stronger because he is still stronger than Zoro and has the definitive title. He is also waiting for someone to surpass Shanks, which is nonsense if Mihawk was still improving.

Akainu has no title of his own that matters here, and resources (Vegapunk) to improve his strength. The power of the admirals isn't just them as individuals either. They're a military force. He has no interest in duels.


Lee-Sensei said:


> or be weakened when Zoro fights him? Could you just answer that?
> 
> No. I’ve already adressed the Emperor and Admiral comparisons many times.


Not interested in a blog post

We've seen how admirals and yonko compare via respective performances against yonko commander-class fighters. Yonko captains dominate in 1 vs 1. Admirals do not, and are instead given challenges. It was possible to rule out MF as an inconsistency or powercreep, but then Fujitora performs up to par with that, so there's no reason to believe otherwise at this point.

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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 9, 2021)

Sablés said:


> No. Mihawk has no reason to get stronger because he is still stronger than Zoro and has the definitive title. He is also waiting for someone to surpass Shanks, which is nonsense if Mihawk was still improving.
> 
> Akainu has no title of his own that matters here, and resources (Vegapunk) to improve his strength. The power of the admirals isn't just them as individuals either. They're a military force. He has no interest in duels.
> 
> ...


1) Nah, man. Being an Admiral is about strength directly. When people talk about the Admirals, they aren’t talking about the troops they command. They’re talking about their power.



It was also stated that Big Mom had the potential to become a Fleet Admiral. Right now, that’s Akainu.

2) If you don’t want to read it, that’s fine, just don’t ask for an explanation if you don’t want to look at the evidence that Emperors and Admirals are comparable.

3) Akainu fought every Whitebeard Commander at the same time after taking to quake punches from bloodlusted Whitebeard and they still couldn’t stop him. Marco and Vista attacked him at the same time with Haki attacks and he just should it off. Marco is definitely at the level of the people on the rooftop. And Vista probably is too, broadly speaking. And a weakened Akainu walked off their combined attacks.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Cursemark (Apr 9, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Nope. He really isn’t.


What do you mean? Regardless of if he really is or isn't he is acknowledged as such by the world of One Piece, that is undeniable.


Lee-Sensei said:


> Akainu gave Luffy his scar. Akainu killed his brother. Akainu is the strongest known fighter that the World Government has.


Akainu will be a major antagonist sure, but he is not FV material. Luffy has only mentioned him once the enttire timeskip and he hasn't had much relevance to the overall story outside 1 arc.


Lee-Sensei said:


> Whitebeard says that the final war against the World Government, comes after finding One Piece. He almost certainly is going to be the final villain.


You do realise the marines are only a fraction of the world government right? Akainu is only head of the marines. The WG including the marines is controlled by Imu & the Gorosei. They are the ones preparing the great cleansing.


Lee-Sensei said:


> Even if he isn’t, he’s still going to be fought near the end of the story. Kaido is getting his cheeks clapped in Wanoby much weaker pirates than th ones Akainu will be facing.


So what? Kaido has fought 14 different people. Akainu will not require a grand team battle. He will be beaten 1v1 which is why the order is irrelevant.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Sablés (Apr 9, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> 1) Nah, man. Being an Admiral is about strength directly. When people talk about the Admirals, they aren’t talking about the troops they command. They’re talking about their power.


I said it isn't "just" power, not that it isn't a requisite. Luffy's beef with Akainu won't end with Akainu, it'll be with the marines as a whole.


Lee-Sensei said:


> just don’t waste my time asking for an explanation


Or you know, you can just summarize your points here...


Lee-Sensei said:


> Akainu fought every Whitebeard Commander


Stopped reading right here. Akainu had backup, and he only managed to beat Curiel. Good for him, I suppose. Kaido ate the 9 scabbards for breakfast by himself, before going onto face the real threat in the R5.



Lee-Sensei said:


> Marco


Okay? Why are you measuring the guy who specializes in defense, then using his offense (not even named attacks) as if that helps Akainu any? Did you forget Marco clashed and stopped his magma fist?

Meanwhile Aokiji has an extended battle with Jozu, and only wins because Jozu was caught off-guard. Fujitora gets the hands from revo commanders, gets bruised by G3 Luffy. Doflamingo who was shit scared at the mention of Kaido's name, had no problems antagonizing Fujitora.

The writing is on the wall. if you actually decide to read it.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Cursemark (Apr 9, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> It was also stated that Big Mom had the potential to become a Fleet Admiral. Right now, that’s Akainu.


That was her without devil fruit powers lol and that doesn't mean Sakazuki would haave been on her level because of the rank. He definitely isn't prime Sengoku level.


Lee-Sensei said:


> 3) Akainu fought every Whitebeard Commander at the same time after taking to quake punches from bloodlusted Whitebeard and they still couldn’t stop him. Marco and Vista attacked him at the same time with Haki attacks and he just should it off. Marco is definitely at the level of the people on the rooftop. And Vista probably is too, broadly speaking. And a weakened Akainu walked off their combined attacks.


Akainu didn't do anything to anybody besides curiel who's weak lol. He likely just Katakuri dodged. There's 0 evidence that any logia can resist Haki.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 9, 2021)

Cursemark said:


> What do you mean? Regardless of if he really is or isn't he is acknowledged as such by the world of One Piece, that is undeniable.
> 
> Akainu will be a major antagonist sure, but he is not FV material. Luffy has only mentioned him once the enttire timeskip and he hasn't had much relevance to the overall story outside 1 arc.
> 
> ...


1) Those are rumours.

2) Luffy clearly holds more of a grudge against Akainu than Blackbeard. At the end of Fishman Island, Jinbei tells the Straw Hats that they need to understand the two big changes that took place in the New World. The 1st was that Blackbeard became an Emperor. The second was that Akainu became the Fleet Admiral. Do you really believe that some other people in the World Government are going to supplant him as the primary physical threat?

3) So, Akainu will fight Luffy at his best and Kaido is going to be defeated by much weaker opponents. I’m not saying that Akainu is head and shoulders above Kaido. I just don’t see this evidence that the Emperors are far above the Admirals and Mihawk.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## ClannadFan (Apr 9, 2021)

Sablés said:


> You have no idea how Kaido will lose, so this claim is impossible to make. You are also making the assumption that an admiral would be a match for Luffy after this.


Do I have to say that its speculation everytime I talk about what I think might happen? I feel like that should be pretty easy for someone to infer given the context that we are giving our predictions. Never did I ever claim that I could predict the future.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 9, 2021)

Sablés said:


> I said it isn't "just" power, not that it isn't a requisite. Luffy's beef with Akainu won't end with Akainu, it'll be with the marines as a whole.
> 
> Or you know, you can just summarize your points here...
> 
> ...


1) Isn’t it though? In that scan, where does it say that the threat of an Admiral partially comes from the troops under their command? Wasn’t Aokiji operating solo when we first saw him? Kizaru was operating by himself too, for the most part. He only brought Sentomaru and 2 Pacifistas as back up. His beef is primarily with Akainu though. He has no beef with Garp, Aokiji, Smoker, Koby etc.. his beef is with the man that killed his brother, scarred him for life and broke his will.

2) Nah. It would be better if you just scrolled through the blog, since it comes with supporting evidence from the manga. If you don’t want to do that, fine. Just don’t pretend that there was no case made.

3) It looks like he’s on his own. More over, we’re directly told that it was Akainu fighting the Whitebeard Commanders. They didn’t say Akainu and a bunch of Vice Admirals were fighting the Whitebeard Commanders. 




Whats more important, is to note that they couldn’t stop him. When Marco and Bista combined their attacks against them, he shrugged it off. Then after taking two punches from bloodlusted Whitebeard, he went head to head with every Commander except Jozu (who was taken out of commission by Admiral Aokiji), and they couldnt overpower him.

4) No. but I did remember Akainu casually stopping Whitebeards bisento with one foot and his hands in his pocket, and then countering his quake punch with a magma fist.



5) It’s interesting. Jozu comes in and blindsides Aokiji while he’s fighting Whitebeard and gives him a bloody lip. Jozu looks away for a second, and Aokiji permanently takes him out of the fight.

6) Doflamingo has connections with the government. Kaido is free to do what he wants.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 9, 2021)

Cursemark said:


> That was her without devil fruit powers lol and that doesn't mean Sakazuki would haave been on her level because of the rank. He definitely isn't prime Sengoku level.
> 
> Akainu didn't do anything to anybody besides curiel who's weak lol. He likely just Katakuri dodged. There's 0 evidence that any logia can resist Haki.


No. They attacked him and he took it and kept going, he probably does have future sight though. Along with advanced CoA. Kizaru and Aokiji both seemed to be using it to avoid Whitebeards attacks. And they all created a force field to protect the scaffold from a Whitebeards quake powers.


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## Xebec (Apr 9, 2021)

Yonko=Akainu>Admirals=Dragon>Mihawk we knew this

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Cursemark (Apr 9, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> 1) Those are rumours.


Again, so what? The point is that no one in One Piece thinks Akainu is the strongest. 


Lee-Sensei said:


> 2) Luffy clearly holds more of a grudge against Akainu than Blackbeard. At the end of Fishman Island, Jinbei tells the Straw Hats that they need to understand the two big changes that took place in the New World. The 1st was that Blackbeard became an Emperor. The second was that Akainu became the Fleet Admiral. Do you really believe that some other people in the World Government are going to supplant him as the primary physical threat?


Who Luffy has a bigger grudge against doesn't matter. BB actually has the setup of potentially being the FV and a parallel to Luffy. I'm not sure why you're acting like Imu & the Gorosei don't exist.


Lee-Sensei said:


> 3) So, Akainu will fight Luffy at his best and Kaido is going to be defeated by much weaker opponents. I’m not saying that Akainu is head and shoulders above Kaido. I just don’t see this evidence that the Emperors are far above the Admirals and Mihawk.


This is some incredibly dumb logic. Akainu would almost certainly be defeated under the same circumstances especially since he doesn't have the same monsterous durability or recovery rate. 

An emperor already clapped him while half dead and nerfed so you're not making any sense. You havee the evidence you're just ignoring it.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 9, 2021)

Cursemark said:


> Again, so what? The point is that no one in One Piece thinks Akainu is the strongest.
> 
> Who Luffy has a bigger grudge against doesn't matter. BB actually has the setup of potentially being the FV and a parallel to Luffy. I'm not sure why you're acting like Imu & the Gorosei don't exist.
> 
> ...


1) Thats a big statement. We don’t know that at all. He’ll, didn’t Kizaru offer to go to Wano to deal with Kaido? Why would he do that if he thought Kaido was significantly stronger than him?

2) Narratively, it definitely matters. Akainu absolutely has the set up to be the final villain. I mu and the Gorosei exist, but we don’t even know that they’re fighters. The Admirals are the strongest assault force of the World Government. The best of them is Akainu.

3) Not really. Akainu’s a durability and endurance freak too. He also probably has future sight, since Aokiji and Kizaru seemed to be using it against Whitebeard during the war to morph around his bisento.

4) Nah. I‘ve already posted the scans. That fight was inconclusive at best and at worst, Akainu won. The guy melted his brain, that can’t be stated enough. Whitebeard got a free shot from behind. Akainu got up and punched off half of his head.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 9, 2021)

You guys keep underestimating the Mad Dog

He will put the work on luffy and sabo

Reactions: Winner 1 | Optimistic 3


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## trance (Apr 9, 2021)

is admiral ~ yonko a minority stance? yes

am i going to keep by it til the bitter end (aka when the marines next have the spotlight)? also yes

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Adhominem (Apr 9, 2021)

This has been obvious since ages, the admirals are just too nicely designed that people want to hold on to the admiral = yonko fantasy

That said Akainu is Yonko level, he's a cut above the pack as FA  for a reason

Reactions: Winner 1 | Neutral 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 9, 2021)

Adhominem said:


> This has been obvious since ages, the admirals are just too nicely designed that people want to hold on to the admiral = yonko fantasy
> 
> That said Akainu is Yonko level, he's a cut above the pack as FA  for a reason


Aokiji is at least close to his level and if he is, Kizaru probably is too.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Adhominem (Apr 9, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Aokiji is at least close to his level and if he is, Kizaru probably is too.


I agree.


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## Sablés (Apr 9, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Wasn’t Aokiji operating solo when we first saw him?


Wasn't on official business.


Lee-Sensei said:


> Kizaru was operating by himself too, for the most part. He only brought Sentomaru and 2 Pacifistas as back up.


So he _wasn_'t operating alone. Gotcha.

Akainu went after Blackbeard with a marine ship as well and soldiers as well, just so you know.


Lee-Sensei said:


> His beef is primarily with Akainu though.


But Akainu's beef is not with Luffy. Akainu is the fleet admiral, you don't challenge him 1 vs 1 without resistance from other marines. But again. all of this heresay. Shit you cannot possibly confirm.

You cannot prove that Akainu's power remains the same.
You cannot prove that Luffy will beat Kaido by his own talents.
You cannot prove that Luffy won't have roadblocks before getting to Akainu.

You are jumping the gun on SEVERAL levels, because you can't argue anything the admirals have done matches the Yonko in present.



Lee-Sensei said:


> 2) Nah. It would be better if you just scrolled through the blog, since it comes with supporting evidence from the manga. If you don’t want to do that, fine. Just don’t pretend that there was no case made.


Did. Nothing but superfluous points.


Lee-Sensei said:


> 3) It looks like he’s on his own. More over, we’re directly told that it was Akainu fighting the Whitebeard Commanders. They didn’t say Akainu and a bunch of Vice Admirals were fighting the Whitebeard Commanders.


You might want to post the scan we actually see of them of fighting.



Akainu is not alone. Whitebeard pirates vs marines.


Lee-Sensei said:


> Whats more important, is to note that they couldn’t stop him. When Marco and Bista combined their attacks against them, he shrugged it off.


Good on him, but what is impressive about this?

Akainu couldn't stop Marco either. I suppose that means they're equal using your logic.


Lee-Sensei said:


> Then after taking two punches from bloodlusted Whitebeard


that put him out of commission for several chapters. Let's not forget that.


Lee-Sensei said:


> 4) No. but I did remember Akainu casually stopping Whitebeards bisento with one foot and his hands in his pocket, and then countering his quake punch with a magma fist.


I think you need to go back and read your own scans.

Akainu didn't counter Whitebeard's quake. _Whitebeard _countered Akainu's magma fist. Whitebeard is a weakened Yonko far out of his prime, and with goddamn awful applications of haki.


Lee-Sensei said:


> 5) It’s interesting. Jozu comes in and blindsides Aokiji while he’s fighting Whitebeard and gives him a bloody lip. Jozu looks away for a second, and Aokiji permanently takes him out of the fight.


And when there were no blindsides, they fought without either being particularly harmed. All this suggests is that Aokiji has more firepower, but isn't relevant unless he gets a direct hit when Jozu isn't paying attention.

In contrast, Big Mom and Kaido can beat the ever loving crap out of their commanders, and commander equivalents, in single hits.


Lee-Sensei said:


> 6) Doflamingo has connections with the government. Kaido is free to do what he wants.


 Doflamingo would have had his shichibukai status revoked on the spot if Fujitora had evidence of DD's crimes against Dressrossa. It's one of the first discussions they had together. If Doflamingo attacked Fujitora, there would be nothing preventing Fujitora from attacking back. Don't ignore how Fujitora's been bruised by Luffy or complimented Zoro's strength either.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 10, 2021)

Sablés said:


> Wasn't on official business.


He was Confirming the whereabouts of Nico Robin.



Sablés said:


> So he _wasn_'t operating alone. Gotcha.


He had 1 other person with him and two robots. They arrived separately and they only linked up near the end of Sabaody.



Sablés said:


> Akainu went after Blackbeard with a marine ship as well and soldiers as well, just so you know.


Blackbeard said that they were running from Akainu. Not Marine fodder. Shanks showed up with Beckman, Lucky Roux, Yasopp and the rest of his Crew. Who did Akainu show up with that was Commander level and above.



Sablés said:


> But Akainu's beef is not with Luffy. Akainu is the fleet admiral, you don't challenge him 1 vs 1 without resistance from other marines. But again. all of this heresay. Shit you cannot possibly confirm.


What a bizarre argument. This is all speculation. Akainu went after Luffy, because he’s Dragons son. It is personal and Luffy will almost certainly want to fight him again in a 1v1.



Sablés said:


> You cannot prove that Akainu's power remains the same.
> You cannot prove that Luffy will beat Kaido by his own talents.
> You cannot prove that Luffy won't have roadblocks before getting to Akainu.


You can’t prove anything either. There’s no definitive proof that Admirals or Emperors are stronger. It’s all speculation.



Sablés said:


> You are jumping the gun on SEVERAL levels, because you can't argue anything the admirals have done matches the Yonko in present.


I definitely can.



Sablés said:


> Did. Nothing but superfluous points.


Nope. Not even close.



Sablés said:


> You might want to post the scan we actually see of them of fighting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...






Sablés said:


> Akainu couldn't stop Marco either. I suppose that means they're equal using your logic.


Nope. Because Akainu had just taken to punches from bloodlusted Whitebeard and Marco was fighting him with Vista and a bunch of other people. It wasn’t even close to a 1v1. It was a 1v15 an they still couldn’t stop him.



Sablés said:


> that put him out of commission for several chapters. Let's not forget that.


Nope. If he was out of commission, he’d have fallen into the ocean. And it was two chapters. But if you really think WB put him out of commission, doesn’t that make his feat of taking on almost every Whitebeard Commander by himself even more impressive?



Sablés said:


> I think you need to go back and read your own scans.
> 
> Akainu didn't counter Whitebeard's quake. _Whitebeard _countered Akainu's magma fist. Whitebeard is a weakened Yonko far out of his prime, and with goddamn awful applications of haki.


That’s not what I saw. It looked like they punched at the same time. You also ignored him casually stopping Whitebeards bisento with one foot and his hands in his pockets.



Sablés said:


> And when there were no blindsides, they fought without either being particularly harmed. All this suggests is that Aokiji has more firepower, but isn't relevant unless he gets a direct hit when Jozu isn't paying attention.


Not really. The Admirals also wanted to protect Marineford. When they went all out, Punk Hazard happened. They almost certainly have Awakening.



Sablés said:


> In contrast, Big Mom and Kaido can beat the ever loving crap out of their commanders, and commander equivalents, in single hits.


Then why can’t they beat the rooftop 5? Mihawk didn’t stomp Vista. Do you also believe he’s far below the Yonko?



Sablés said:


> Doflamingo would have had his shichibukai status revoked on the spot if Fujitora had evidence of DD's crimes against Dressrossa. It's one of the first discussions they had together. If Doflamingo attacked Fujitora, there would be nothing preventing Fujitora from attacking back. Don't ignore how Fujitora's been bruised by Luffy or complimented Zoro's strength either.


And Akainu still walked off Haki attacks from Marco and Vista at the same time.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Dellinger (Apr 10, 2021)

The mental gymnastics from the Admiral fans are hilarious.

Oda had nerfed WB put Akainu out of commission in 2 blows. Yes Akainu took half of his face after WB got stabbed y Squardo, after Akainu put a hole on him and after WB receiving several of other attacks because of his sickness. Point is WB wasnt anywhere near close to his true strength. He couldn't use CoC which is a basic for Kaido for example and Shanks.

Oda had the Admirals repeatedly clash with Yonko commanders in mostly 1v1 scenarios. Kaido fights multiple opponents at the same time. A combined attack from 2 Yonko would kill the rooftop 5, can you say the same for the Admirals ? Not so much. We know for a fact that 2 Admirals fought against a weaker group and they were injured. Guys who also don't have Luffy's Haki, Law's versatility, Zoro's raw power etc. Heck the scabbards as a group are stronger.

People for years were always spouting that the Admirals are at the top because of their versatility in battle and how complete they are as a fighters. Then we see what prime WB can do, Kaido and Mom. Kaido alone is a more complete case of a fighter than any Admiral. No Admiral has the physical capabilities of Kaido, no Admiral has shown Kaido's Haki. CoC is for the advanced select few not advanced armament which is the norm in Wano and even Sentomaru knows. Kaido's monstrous durability is the stuff of legends, you don't have anyone say that for the Admirals. Kaido aside from his Haki and monstrous physical abilities can also lift islands, shoot fire beams, electricity, wind scythes and tornadoes.

Doflamingo shit himself at the thought of Kaido, he didn't even think for once that he had any chance with him yet he was ready to try and kill Fujitora. Didn't give 2 shits for Aokiji's threat and still tried to attack Smoker. He wouldn't pull the same shit with Kaido above him.
What's hilarious with this is that when you bring it up, the Admiral fanboys will claim that Fujitora is weaker than the pre skip trio despite the fact that the marines are stronger than pre skip and despite the fact that Fujitora and Ryokugyu are based on the exact same pattern Akainu, Kizaru and Aokiji are based on. So clearly Oda's intention wasn't to make Fujitora and Ryokugyu appear weaker than them.

We have 2 Yonko with the 2 highest cases of world's strongest titles in the series. WB and Kaido. No Admiral has ever been mentioned as a world's strongest.

People now try to bring Akainu being beaten later on when Akainu will be beaten in a solo fight (Kaido isn't) when Oda has already established Teach and now Im as the big final antagonists of the series. Kaido has been more important than Akainu on the sheer value that Kaido has been the overarching antagonist and big bad for a saga spanning nearly 400 chapters. Akainu won't get that treatment. I mean think about it in numbers, Kaido has been the big bad for nearly as long as the entire pre skip lasted.

Yonko simply have been more impressive, they are more important to the plot and Oda has clearly portrayed them as the strongest. These are undeniable facts that only guys who either binge read the series or guys who lack total reading comprehension deny.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 9 | Optimistic 2 | Dislike 1


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## Seraphoenix (Apr 10, 2021)



Reactions: Funny 9 | Winner 2


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## Kylo Ren (Apr 10, 2021)

Sablés said:


> *It's you dodging a comparison of admirals vs yonko with the extensive knowledge present, and instead of defaulting to shit we haven't seen yet, and have zero certainty on.* So will you address any of that, or will you stonewall?


The summary of this thread lmao.


Dellinger said:


> Doflamingo shit himself at the thought of Kaido, he didn't even think for once that he had any chance with him yet he was ready to try and kill Fujitora. Didn't give 2 shits for Aokiji's threat and still tried to attack Smoker. He wouldn't pull the same shit with Kaido above him.


Adding the hawkins card that said winning against Kaido is 0% and compare it to the admiral.

Yonko situation - hopeless. Change allegiance in a heart beat.

Admiral situation - nah, lets stay here. Im not gonna die.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Sablés (Apr 10, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> He had 1 other person with him and two robots. They arrived separately and they only linked up near the end of Sabaody.


Because Kizaru went off ahead. Officially, he came there with backup.


Lee-Sensei said:


> Blackbeard said that they were running from Akainu. Not Marine fodder.


Doesn't matter. Akainu came there with troops. Admirals don't walk off on their own normally.


Lee-Sensei said:


> What a bizarre argument. This is all speculation.




I want you to take these two sentences. Repeat them back to yourself

Then tell me what in blazes you have been arguing this entire time. You have given me nothing BUT speculation.


Lee-Sensei said:


> You can’t prove anything either. There’s no definitive proof that Admirals or Emperors are stronger. It’s all speculation.


There's a difference between me pulling out feats and comparisons between characters we know about/HAVE OCCURRED and you harping about  what ifs, or what might happen in the future. Which is not remotely set in stone.


Lee-Sensei said:


> (Akainu vs Whitebeard pirates picture*


Why did you post this image? This is the start of the battle

I showed you marines backing up Akainu and the commanders waiting in the back with Marco in front. Akainu did not fight them alone.


Lee-Sensei said:


> Nope. Because Akainu had just taken to punches from bloodlusted Whitebeard


And got knocked out.


Lee-Sensei said:


> and Marco was fighting him with Vista and a bunch of other people. It wasn’t even close to a 1v1. It was a 1v15 an they still couldn’t stop him.


Try an army vs an army.

And no. It was Marco stopping Akainu's magma fist. He did so alone.

Guess what happens when you isolate showings and ignore how a character's powerset works. Marco is defensive, not offensive. And defensively, he is more than capable of neutralizing admirals.


Lee-Sensei said:


> Nope. If he was out of commission, he’d have fallen into the ocean.


Or he got saved and landed on a platform. The fact that Luffy was escaping him, when Akainu was dead set on murdering his ass, is proof that Akainu was indisposed, for however brief the period.


Lee-Sensei said:


> And it was two chapters. But if you really think WB put him out of commission, doesn’t that make his feat of taking on almost every Whitebeard Commander by himself even more impressive?


No more impressive than Luffy is for continuing to fight at peak strength despite the damage Kaido has been inflicting on him.

And you realize that Whitebeard was heavily injured and near death when he double-tapped Akainu? So what then, the strongest admiral got laid out with ease by a half-dead, and arguably the weakest, Yonko?


Lee-Sensei said:


> That’s not what I saw. It looked like they punched at the same time.


You'd be wrong, because Whitebeard flexes after Akainu's magma is encroaching on him.

You are confusing the manga with the anime.


Lee-Sensei said:


> You also ignored him casually stopping Whitebeards bisento with one foot and his hands in his pockets.


Cool. Shame that's not impressive in the least, because Oldbeard is the weakest, most unstable Yonko.


Lee-Sensei said:


> Not really. The Admirals also wanted to protect Marineford. When they went all out, Punk Hazard happened. They almost certainly have Awakening.


So do pirates. Marco wasn't even  using his hybrid form.


Lee-Sensei said:


> Then why can’t they beat the rooftop 5?


Because the rooftop 5 have bonafide top-tiers and individuals with dangerous skillsets.


Lee-Sensei said:


> Mihawk didn’t stomp Vista. Do you also believe he’s far below the Yonko?


His feats were highly underwhelming in MF, but that can be rationalized
1) Thriller bark states that swordsmen have particular styles that result in long battles or extremely short ones depending on compatibility.
2) No swordsmanship techniques were employed. This was the bare minimum of their powers, so the fight was nothing more than a test of strength instead of a real battle.

But I digress. MF was a clusterfuck arc, which is why I'd normally give the Admirals a pass. Only the timeskip reinforces that commander-class fighters are a threat to admirals. Whereas Yonko inspire much greater fear and outperform fighters of that class.


Lee-Sensei said:


> And Akainu still walked off Haki attacks from Marco and Vista at the same time.


Then sorry to say, this means Fujitora is significantly weaker than Akainu, at least in body.* Shame that Fujitora is still an admiral.*

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Dellinger (Apr 10, 2021)

People mentioning the PH climate change which took 10 days when Kaido can literally rip off an island from it's foundation in an instant

Reactions: Winner 2


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## TheOmega (Apr 10, 2021)

Admiral fans get more and more ridiculous as time goes on lol


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## Dellinger (Apr 10, 2021)

Heck I mean to put it into a real perspective here.

Law mentioned the plan to take down Kaido in chapter 667. We're in chapter 1010, that means Kaido has been the main goal of the story for 343 chapters. Nanatsu no Taizai, a pretty famous series in this decade has 346 chapters released. Toriko has 396 chapters, Kaido story is closer to that number which is insane. 343 chapters of Kaido being the main goal, arcs about weakening his forces, arcs with his forces being around, Doflamingo his ally having a 100 chapter arc for him etc Yet people act like Kaido isn't important to the plot

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Galyus (Apr 10, 2021)

no one has ever answered this:

If the yonkou aren't stronger overall (if only a little bit) then how come the WG hasn't killed all of them besides Shanks (if he's really on their side or at least is willing to cooperate with them) yet? They would have at least 4 fighters in their league (the original trio, Sengoku), and there's possibly the Elder Stars themselves with Im.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Apr 10, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> If I could I wouldn't have made CoC such a big deal. But that's how the cookie crumbles


What are you talking about?

I'm saying that the Admirals live in your head rent free, if you read this chapter and think it has anything to do with Admirals.

Rent-Free.

@Lee-Sensei  how did you make @TheOmega  so salty that he's reacting to every single one your posts lmao?

Reactions: Optimistic 2


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## TheOmega (Apr 10, 2021)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> What are you talking about?
> 
> I'm saying that the Admirals live in your head rent free, if you read this chapter and think it has anything to do with Admirals.
> 
> ...




Must be fun reading 2piece and thinking that the SadmiraLs are on the same level as the Yonko 

What does rent free mean? Does it mean the government doesn't pay them enough to afford proper housing?

I'm never salty. But those Sadmiral Stan Tears are

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Apr 10, 2021)

TheOmega said:


> Must be fun reading 2piece and thinking that the SadmiraLs are on the same level as the Yonko
> 
> What does rent free mean? Does it mean the government doesn't pay them enough to afford proper housing?
> 
> I'm never salty. But those Sadmiral Stan Tears are



@Lee-Sensei , no seriously what did you do to him?

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Quipchaque (Apr 10, 2021)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> CoC isnt a Win button
> 
> admirals will fight stronger SHs than yonkou



Yeah yeah yeah just like it wasn't relevant against top Tiere amirite?

Reactions: Funny 2


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## TheOmega (Apr 10, 2021)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> @Lee-Sensei , no seriously what did you do to him?



 are you getting jelly? How adorable

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Apr 10, 2021)

TheOmega said:


> are you getting jelly? How adorable


Yikes.


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## TheOmega (Apr 10, 2021)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> Yikes.



Just make sure you invite me to the wedding

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Udell (Apr 10, 2021)

Didn't Oda state that the lurking legend will be introduce this arc and he will be stronger than Kaido? Opponents will keep getting stronger not weaker. I am sure out of those 7 loses kaido has one of them is from an admiral.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chronophage (Apr 10, 2021)

Hammock, Mingo and Mommy's boy > Admirals. 

Rule #74:

If any topic has "revealed" or "It's official" in the title IT'S 100% BULLSHIT.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 10, 2021)

Right now admirals = yonkou

By EoS it will be admirals > yonkou

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 2 | Optimistic 2


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## Bernkastel (Apr 10, 2021)

Not really into the yonkou vs admirals debate but you have to respect Garp for fighting the likes of Rocks and Roger without CoC or DF using just his sexy fists

Reactions: Like 3


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## ClannadFan (Apr 10, 2021)

Galyus said:


> no one has ever answered this:
> 
> If the yonkou aren't stronger overall (if only a little bit) then how come the WG hasn't killed all of them besides Shanks (if he's really on their side or at least is willing to cooperate with them) yet? They would have at least 4 fighters in their league (the original trio, Sengoku), and there's possibly the Elder Stars themselves with Im.


People have answered this a million times. Pay more attention.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Etherborn (Apr 10, 2021)

I think it's been unofficially declared official by fans at least a dozen times during this arc alone. And it'll be another dozen before the arc ends, because there's no better time to believe Yonko > Admirals than during a Yonko centric arc. They gotta beat this dead horse while they can before it comes back to life and tramples them to death.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 4 | Winner 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## TheOmega (Apr 10, 2021)

Etherborn said:


> I think it's been unofficially declared official by fans at least a dozen times during this arc alone. And it'll be another dozen before the arc ends, because there's no better time to believe Yonko > Admirals than during a Yonko centric arc. They gotta beat this dead horse while they can before it comes back to life and tramples them to death.



How? Half the WSs title holders are Yonko

Sounds as Official as Official can be

Especially when the Admiral hit the panic button when Yonko are involved

I'm looking forward to stuntin further on those who deny the Yonko greatness

Reactions: Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Vengarl (Apr 10, 2021)

Consider the fact that Shanks, Roger, Rayleigh and Mihawk are all DFless while the admirals need hax destructive DFs that can bypass defense

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## TheOmega (Apr 10, 2021)

Vengarl said:


> Consider the fact that Shanks, Roger, Rayleigh and Mihawk are all DFless while the admirals need hax destructive DFs that can bypass defense



Dem GOATs gon GOAT

Reactions: Winner 1


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## KBD (Apr 10, 2021)

Chad Conqueros Haki> Virgin logia fruit

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 10, 2021)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> @Lee-Sensei , no seriously what did you do to him?


I told him the truth.

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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 10, 2021)

Vengarl said:


> Consider the fact that Shanks, Roger, Rayleigh and Mihawk are all DFless while the admirals need hax destructive DFs that can bypass defense


Garp doesn’t have a DF. Neither does Koby (obviously far from that level right now, but he’ll probably make it without one). No swords either. They just throw hands.



TheOmega said:


> How? Half the WSs title holders are Yonko
> 
> Sounds as Official as Official can be
> 
> ...


Kizaru seemed terrified when he offered to go to Wano.


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## Dellinger (Apr 10, 2021)

Udell said:


> Didn't Oda state that the lurking legend will be introduce this arc and he will be stronger than Kaido? Opponents will keep getting stronger not weaker. I am sure out of those 7 loses kaido has one of them is from an admiral.



The lurking legend is the Rocks stuff.

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## Dellinger (Apr 10, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Garp doesn’t have a DF. Neither does Koby (obviously far from that level right now, but he’ll probably make it without one). No swords either. They just throw hands.



Why are you bringing Garp in this ? We aren't talking about Garp here.


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## Grimsley (Apr 10, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Kizaru seemed terrified when he offered to go to Wano.


Hancock was unafraid to fight Kuzan when he was about to kill Luffy during the war. Does this mean Hancock is stronger than an Admiral? Do you really think one Admiral could take on two Yonkos? Especially considering Fuji got contested by a G3 Luffy and bruised by other non-Yonko characters?

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## Kylo Ren (Apr 10, 2021)

Topic about who is the current strongest characters.

Yonko fans - Kaido because of the rumor and its being stated numerous times in the manga (a title of the chapter, characters opinion, an introduction)


Admiral fan - Akainu cause of my headcanon.



After Wano we still have Shanks and BB,  we have so much time to shine. Come back in a couple of year when the admirals have confirm coc at eos, for now its not even close.

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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 10, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> Why are you bringing Garp in this ? We aren't talking about Garp here.


Read. They were talking about the Admirals. Garp is a Vice Admiral and was offered the Admiral position many times. He’s on their level without a Devil Fruit or a weapon.


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 10, 2021)

Grimsley said:


> Hancock was unafraid to fight Kuzan when he was about to kill Luffy during the war. Does this mean Hancock is stronger than an Admiral? Do you really think one Admiral could take on two Yonkos? Especially considering Fuji got contested by a G3 Luffy and bruised by other non-Yonko characters?


Each. Except we’ve already seen Kizaru stunting on an Emperor. The guy said that the Admirals were afraid. They objectively weren’t. And no. I don’t think that Kizaru can beat 2 Emperors. I think that in a 1v1 he’d stand a solid chance of beating an Emperor though and Oda seems to 0lace them at the Emperor level.

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## Sablés (Apr 10, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Except we’ve already seen Kizaru stunting on an *injured and weakened* Emperor.


FTFY


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## Kylo Ren (Apr 10, 2021)

We also like to give a benefit of a doubt to akainu having coc but Fujitora seems to be a more goal oriented than any admirals. Thats why I think thats make him qualify to have coc.

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## Dellinger (Apr 10, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Read. They were talking about the Admirals. Garp is a Vice Admiral and was offered the Admiral position many times. He’s on their level without a Devil Fruit or a weapon.



Garp is an outlier compared to the Admirals. He's another thing entirely. That's like comparing Roger with other pirates.

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## Dellinger (Apr 10, 2021)

Kylo Ren said:


> Topic about who is the current strongest characters.
> 
> Yonko fans - Kaido because of the rumor and its being stated numerous times in the manga (a title of the chapter, characters opinion, an introduction)
> 
> ...



You know you're right here. Admiral fans only operate on headcanon, completely ignoring the manga

>WB can't use the same type of Haki with Roger, Kaido, Shanks and his prime self because of his health

>WB was getting hurt by every mother fucker around

>But Akainu took half his head!!! he's the strongest

Like seriously.

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## Kylo Ren (Apr 10, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> You know you're right here. Admiral fans only operate on headcanon, completely ignoring the manga
> 
> >WB can't use the same type of Haki with Roger, Kaido, Shanks and his prime self because of his health
> 
> ...


The WB that the yonko fought is the WSM while the MF version is not, Oda is giving us hint that its not the case anymore by the character himself and other side characters.

Just list all the feat of WB(amazing coo for dodging, amazing coa for additional protection and lastly coc) and compare it to the MF version and you can conclude that that WB is a shadow of his former self.


If only Akainu beat WB right there and then we could have a new WSM that the characters inverse have been talking about instead we have Kaido lol

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## Ayy lmao (Apr 10, 2021)

Vengarl said:


> Consider the fact that Shanks, Roger, Rayleigh and Mihawk are all DFless while the admirals need hax destructive DFs that can bypass defense


Literally only 1 out of all Yonko's ever does not posess a DF, and how exactly does Kizaru or Fujitora bypass defense??? Shit, no Admiral do, if you have strong enough haki, it will protect you from literally any DF, no DF can bypass defense.

As for this thread, an compared Shanks to Admirals, saying he can fight equally to Admirals despite having no DF. Why would they say this if Yonkos where>>Admirals?? Why not just say Shanks is stronger than Admirals if that was the case?




Ayy lmao said:


> Stolen from
> 
> 
> Big Mom& Kaido: The two with monstrous appearances and strength, over 2 billion?!
> ...

Reactions: Informative 1


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## JustSumGuy (Apr 10, 2021)

Are people really arguing that Kaido is more important than Akainu as an antagonist now lol I swear. Kaido is a mid level boss.

People saying it doesn’t make sense for Akainu to be that strong based on Marineford but you assume Oda actually will care about that. This man Oda has literally said that he makes characters stronger on a whim and if you don’t believe that statement then just look at how he portrayed Crocodile after he lost to a preskip Luffy.

And I’d argue Akainu is that strong because of his lethal Devil fruit. If you fight Akainu, you cannot afford to get fisted by him and everyone who has been magma fisted has had their body permanently altered like WB, Ace, Aokiji and oh yeah....the MAIN CHARACTER.

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## Duhul10 (Apr 10, 2021)

Admiral fans bring things like plot relevance ( which Akainu may not have on a level above Kaido, we'll see ) and chronology to establish rankings  feats, portrayal, hype, Oda's words, nothing is above chronology in their eyes. Poor Kizaru, he had his arc more than 5 arcs ago.

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## Galyus (Apr 10, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> People have answered this a million times. Pay more attention.


No they haven't. If there are 4 Marines minimum in the league of the Yonkou then that means the MHQ is able to swarm on any single one of them. Throw in Mihawk and that's 5.  Throw in Im and Elder Stars that's 11 counting. 

Despite that, we're repeatedly shown that the WG is actively trying to break the balance among them and piracy. Spandam sniffing around Water 7. Robo squads. Whatever they have to replace the Warlords. The upcoming worldly purge. There's no doubt that the balance between the powers is just the WG making concessions with enemies they didn't have the means to destroy reliably until recent developmens.

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## Dellinger (Apr 10, 2021)

JustSumGuy said:


> Are people really arguing that Kaido is more important than Akainu as an antagonist now lol I swear. Kaido is a mid level boss.
> 
> People saying it doesn’t make sense for Akainu to be that strong based on Marineford but you assume Oda actually will care about that. This man Oda has literally said that he makes characters stronger on a whim and if you don’t believe that statement then just look at how he portrayed Crocodile after he lost to a preskip Luffy.
> 
> And I’d argue Akainu is that strong because of his lethal Devil fruit. If you fight Akainu, you cannot afford to get fisted by him and everyone who has been magma fisted has had their body permanently altered like WB, Ace, Aokiji and oh yeah....the MAIN CHARACTER.



What the fuck ? I already said what makes Kaido more important. Akainu will never e the antagonist of a 400 chapter saga. He won't even e that big with Teach and Im around.

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## Shunsuiju (Apr 10, 2021)

Ayy lmao said:


> As for this thread, an compared Shanks to Admirals, saying he can fight equally to Admirals despite having no DF. Why would they say this if Yonkos where>>Admirals?? Why not just say Shanks is stronger than Admirals if that was the case?


If we're citing outside manga material there is one that says Marco = Admirals, and Marco is in all likelihood not equal to Big Mom or Kaido. So that doesn't prove anything.

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## JustSumGuy (Apr 10, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> What the fuck ? I already said what makes Kaido more important. Akainu will never e the antagonist of a 400 chapter saga. He won't even e that big with Teach and Im around.


You’re right, Akainu has just been an overarching villain since Marineford lol who killed the MC’s brother and has scarred him in way that is both physically and mentally permanent.

Quantity or panel time does not always equal importance. Or else Shanks is one of the least important characters in the series lol.

Like do you not find it telling that out of all the people Luffy has fought including Kaido, Akainu is the only one who Oda allowed to permanently mark him ?

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## JustSumGuy (Apr 10, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Admiral fans bring things like plot relevance ( which Akainu may not have on a level above Kaido, we'll see ) and chronology to establish rankings  feats, portrayal, hype, Oda's words, nothing is above chronology in their eyes. Poor Kizaru, he had his arc more than 5 arcs ago.


Literally a guy who’s arguing for Kaido over Akainu brought it up first lol.


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## Ezekjuninor (Apr 10, 2021)

Adhominem said:


> This has been obvious since ages, the admirals are just too nicely designed that people want to hold on to the admiral = yonko fantasy
> 
> That said Akainu is Yonko level, he's a cut above the pack as FA  for a reason


I agree Yonkou=FA is far more likely and we’re basically told this. Big Mom was hyped as having the potential to be FA as a kid, not an admiral, Fleet Admiral. Oda clearly had this said for a reason. WB was the WSM. Kaidou is the “rumoured” WSC and rumoured 1v1 king. Shanks is relatively unknown and featless but he likely compares to them.

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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 10, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> Garp is an outlier compared to the Admirals. He's another thing entirely. That's like comparing Roger with other pirates.


Shanks is an outlier compared to the Emperors. He’s another thing entirely. They were talking about Top Tiers without Devil Fruits. Garp is a Top Tier without a Devil Fruit on the Marines side.


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Apr 10, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> Garp is an outlier compared to the Admirals. He's another thing entirely. That's like comparing Roger with other pirates.



It's like comparing Roger to other Yonko. Which you guys constantly do, don't be disingenuous.

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## Garcher (Apr 10, 2021)

That panel of Akainu killing Ace was the absolute dramatic climax of pre-skip and we haven't got anything like it post-skip so far. Do people really think Oda is enough of a hack to make Akainu some kind of side note in the final saga after that?

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## Kirin Thunderclap (Apr 10, 2021)

Ezekjuninor said:


> I agree Yonkou=FA is far more likely and we’re basically told this. Big Mom was hyped as having the potential to be FA as a kid, not an admiral, Fleet Admiral. Oda clearly had this said for a reason. WB was the WSM. Kaidou is the “rumoured” WSC and rumoured 1v1 king. Shanks is relatively unknown and featless but he likely compares to them.



This logic makes no sense, we've seen an admiral vs admiral fight to become FA. The person who won wasn't on another level, it was a 10 day fight, extreme diff fight. If your logic is FA=Yonko. Then Admiral=Yonko. I don't know how you can comprehend this any other way. 

Also the exact quote was that she 'has the potential to be an Admiral, maybe even Fleet Admiral.' I wonder why you cut out half the quote?

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## Kirin Thunderclap (Apr 10, 2021)

Garcher said:


> That panel of Akainu killing Ace was the absolute dramatic climax of pre-skip and we haven't got anything like it post-skip so far. Do people really think Oda is enough of a hack to make Akainu some kind of side note in the final saga after that?



They want shit writing, so it can fit their tiers lmao.

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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 10, 2021)

Garcher said:


> That panel of Akainu killing Ace was the absolute dramatic climax of pre-skip and we haven't got anything like it post-skip so far. Do people really think Oda is enough of a hack to make Akainu some kind of side note in the final saga after that?


It would make no sense for him to toss Akainu to the side after all of that set up.

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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 10, 2021)

Ezekjuninor said:


> I agree Yonkou=FA is far more likely and we’re basically told this. Big Mom was hyped as having the potential to be FA as a kid, not an admiral, Fleet Admiral. Oda clearly had this said for a reason. WB was the WSM. Kaidou is the “rumoured” WSC and rumoured 1v1 king. Shanks is relatively unknown and featless but he likely compares to them.


That makes no sense. Sengoku was the Fleet Admiral Pre-TS and he was probably weaker than the Admirals, since he was almost 80 by that point. Akainu is the Fleet Admiral now and Aokiji gave him an extreme diff fight.

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## JustSumGuy (Apr 10, 2021)

Akainu: Kills the MC’s brother and scars him physically and mentally

OL: Nah, he’s just a side villain because my tier list dictates it so.

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## DeVision (Apr 10, 2021)

JustSumGuy said:


> Akainu: Kills the MC’s brother and scars him physically and mentally
> 
> OL: Nah, he’s just a side villain because my tier list dictates it so.



I'm soooooo gonna laugh once Luffy skips over Akainu and leaves him to Sabo.

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## Dellinger (Apr 10, 2021)

JustSumGuy said:


> You’re right, Akainu has just been an overarching villain since Marineford lol who killed the MC’s brother and has scarred him in way that is both physically and mentally permanent.
> 
> Quantity or panel time does not always equal importance. Or else Shanks is one of the least important characters in the series lol.
> 
> Like do you not find it telling that out of all the people Luffy has fought including Kaido, Akainu is the only one who Oda allowed to permanently mark him ?



Has Akainu been Luffy's goal ? No. 

Luffy didn't say "I'm gonna beat Akainu, let's weaken the marine forces for 400 chapters" If they meet they meet, otherwise Luffy doesn't care.

Also why are you comparing Shanks with Akainu ? Shanks is Luffy's role model, the guy Luffy wants to surpass.

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## Dellinger (Apr 10, 2021)

Garcher said:


> That panel of Akainu killing Ace was the absolute dramatic climax of pre-skip and we haven't got anything like it post-skip so far. Do people really think Oda is enough of a hack to make Akainu some kind of side note in the final saga after that?



Nobody said he will be tossed aside. That doesn't mean that he'll be the big bad as some want. He isn't and he can't be with Teach and Im around.

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## Duhul10 (Apr 10, 2021)

JustSumGuy said:


> Akainu: Kills the MC’s brother and scars him physically and mentally
> 
> OL: Nah, he’s just a side villain because my tier list dictates it so.


The MC has another brother who can deal with that, which is a possibility. Akainu is a small piece in the bigger picture. He is like the WG's mean pitbull.

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## Dellinger (Apr 10, 2021)

Akainu lost countless points when the Gorosei treated him like a dog. That's an undeniable fact.

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## JustSumGuy (Apr 10, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> Has Akainu been Luffy's goal ? No.
> 
> Luffy didn't say "I'm gonna beat Akainu, let's weaken the marine forces for 400 chapters" If they meet they meet, otherwise Luffy doesn't care.
> 
> Also why are you comparing Shanks with Akainu ? Shanks is Luffy's role model, the guy Luffy wants to surpass.


neither is Kaido. I mean Luffy wants to beat him but Luffy has wanted to beat up a lot of people.

He hasn’t said he wants to beat Akainu but whenever he’s mentioned Luffy cringes. Beating Akainu is not the goal for right now that’s all. Going after Akainu specifically would be much more difficult than going after Kaido at this moment. 

I’d argue Shanks and Akainu are writing foils to each other based on their affect on the main character. Shanks is the one who inspired Luffy to become PK, Akainu is the one who almost made Luffy want to give up that dream. When you see Luffy post timeskip he has two defining physical features, the hat given to him by Shanks and the mark given to him by Akainu.

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## JustSumGuy (Apr 10, 2021)

DeVision said:


> I'm soooooo gonna laugh once Luffy skips over Akainu and leaves him to Sabo.


And then I’ll laugh because Luffy will have two dead brothers if that happens.

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## Tenma (Apr 10, 2021)

Ayy lmao said:


> Literally only 1 out of all Yonko's ever does not posess a DF, and how exactly does Kizaru or Fujitora bypass defense??? Shit, no Admiral do  do, if you have strong enough haki, it will protect you from literally any DF, no DF can bypass defense.
> 
> As for this thread, an compared Shanks to Admirals, saying he can fight equally to Admirals despite having no DF. Why would they say this if Yonkos where>>Admirals?? Why not just say Shanks is stronger than Admirals if that was the case?



tbf

Based on the apparently 'over 2 billion' bounty for Kaido and Big Mom I have a feeling the poor intern who made that pamphlet just didn't know shit


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 10, 2021)

DeVision said:


> I'm soooooo gonna laugh once Luffy skips over Akainu and leaves him to Sabo.


How much are you willing to bet on that?


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## Dellinger (Apr 10, 2021)

JustSumGuy said:


> neither is Kaido. I mean Luffy wants to beat him but Luffy has wanted to beat up a lot of people.
> 
> He hasn’t said he wants to beat Akainu but whenever he’s mentioned Luffy cringes. Beating Akainu is not the goal for right now that’s all. Going after Akainu specifically would be much more difficult than going after Kaido at this moment.
> 
> I’d argue Shanks and Akainu are writing foils to each other based on their affect on the main character. Shanks is the one who inspired Luffy to become PK, Akainu is the one who almost made Luffy want to give up that dream. When you see Luffy post timeskip he has two defining physical features, the hat given to him by Shanks and the mark given to him by Akainu.



Neither is Kaido ? Dude, as I said Kaido has been the goal for nearly 400 chapters. We went from PH to destroy SAD and capture Caesar, to Dressrosa to destroy the SMILEs and beating Doflamingo (Kaido's ally) to Zou having Kaido's 3rd underling as the big bad to Wano which is the biggest arc in the series. Name one antagonist like that.

Shanks and Akainu stopped being writing foils to each other when Akainu was sweating when he saw him and when the Gorosei treated Shanks with respect and Akainu like a dog. If these are foils then what does that make Shanks and Teach who are the ones that really have a history together ?

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## Dellinger (Apr 10, 2021)

Tenma said:


> tbf
> 
> Based on the apparently 'over 2 billion' bounty for Kaido and Big Mom I have a feeling the poor intern who made that pamphlet just didn't know shit



Same article mentioned that Shanks has a bigger bounty than Kaido and Mom. We all know how that turned out.

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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 10, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> Neither is Kaido ? Dude, as I said Kaido has been the goal for nearly 400 chapters. We went from PH to destroy SAD and capture Caesar, to Dressrosa to destroy the SMILEs and beating Doflamingo (Kaido's ally) to Zou having Kaido's 3rd underling as the big bad to Wano which is the biggest arc in the series. Name one antagonist like that.
> 
> Shanks and Akainu stopped being writing foils to each other when Akainu was sweating when he saw him and when the Gorosei treated Shanks with respect and Akainu like a dog. If these are foils then what does that make Shanks and Teach who are the ones that really have a history together ?


Give it a rest, buddy. Kaido is a side villain. This idea that Shanks scared Akainu is and always has been completely delusional.

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## Dellinger (Apr 10, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Give it a rest, buddy. Kaido is a side villain. This idea that Shanks scared Akainu is and always has been completely delusional.



So Oda basically spent 400 chapters on a side villain. Good to know. That actually sucks.

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## Tenma (Apr 10, 2021)

Both Kaido and Akainu are major villains, what is even going on here

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## JustSumGuy (Apr 10, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> Neither is Kaido ? Dude, as I said Kaido has been the goal for nearly 400 chapters. We went from PH to destroy SAD and capture Caesar, to Dressrosa to destroy the SMILEs and beating Doflamingo (Kaido's ally) to Zou having Kaido's 3rd underling as the big bad to Wano which is the biggest arc in the series. Name one antagonist like that.
> 
> Shanks and Akainu stopped being writing foils to each other when Akainu was sweating when he saw him and when the Gorosei treated Shanks with respect and Akainu like a dog. If these are foils then what does that make Shanks and Teach who are the ones that really have a history together ?



Bro Akainu was not sweating Shanks that’s never been hinted at or implied. He stopped fighting when his superior ordered him too which goes in line with his character and it was also the smart thing to do as well since Shanks brought a whole army with him.

This is where difference of opinion comes in but I personally believe Akainu might try to overthrow the Gorosei and make his ideal of absolute justice the one thing the world looks at for guidance. And don’t forget Akainu doesn’t respect the Gorosei either. He called them a bunch of old fools to their faces. It’s a matter of neither side really respecting the other which makes sense for the Gorosei as they’ve never had someone combat their authority before.  

And it’s possible for characters to have more than one foil lol

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## Dellinger (Apr 10, 2021)

JustSumGuy said:


> Bro Akainu was not sweating Shanks that’s never been hinted at or implied. He stopped fighting when his superior ordered him too which goes in line with his character and it was also the smart thing to do as well since Shanks brought a whole army with him.
> 
> This is where difference of opinion comes in but I personally believe Akainu might try to overthrow the Gorosei and make his ideal of absolute justice the one thing the world looks at for guidance. And don’t forget Akainu doesn’t respect the Gorosei either. He called them a bunch of old fools to their faces. It’s a matter of neither side really respecting the other which makes sense for the Gorosei as they’ve never had someone combat their authority before.
> 
> And it’s possible for characters to have more than one foil lol



Yeah the guy who was against the shichibukai dissolving will overthrow the Gorosei. 

These Akainu fanboys

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## JustSumGuy (Apr 10, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> Yeah the guy who was against the shichibukai dissolving will overthrow the Gorosei.
> 
> These Akainu fanboys


I don’t see how those two things are related. Having strong pirates under your command could be argued as being beneficial to the world government as a whole. Like if a war breaks out. The Gorosei are in a leadership position that Akainu would maybe want they don’t seem to provide military might like the warlords which we know Akainu cares about since he’s made it his mission to make the marines/government as strong as they’ve ever been. 

But hey instead of using logic, I’ll just laugh at the argument and call him a fanboy  cause I think it’ll make me look cooler lol.

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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 10, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> So Oda basically spent 400 chapters on a side villain. Good to know. That actually sucks.


About half of that time was spent on Doflamingo and a chunk was spent on Big Mom.

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## Ayy lmao (Apr 10, 2021)

Tenma said:


> tbf
> 
> Based on the apparently 'over 2 billion' bounty for Kaido and Big Mom I have a feeling the poor intern who made that pamphlet just didn't know shit


either that or Oda didnt reveal exactly how high their bounty where to his intels.


Shunsuiju said:


> If we're citing outside manga material there is one that says Marco = Admirals, and Marco is in all likelihood not equal to Big Mom or Kaido. So that doesn't prove anything.


 Source?


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## ClannadFan (Apr 10, 2021)

Why do people bring up the amount of chapters that Kaido has been the bad guy for? All that means is it took that long for Luffy to get over the hump. After Kaido and Big Mom he can focus on the real threats, like Shanks, Blackbeard and Akainu. Don't worry Kaido and Big Mom fans, they were the best training wheels Luffy could of had. 

Also it's pretty much a given that Blackbeard and Shanks will have less chapters given to them, does that mean they're less relevant now too?

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## Ezekjuninor (Apr 10, 2021)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> This logic makes no sense, we've seen an admiral vs admiral fight to become FA. The person who won wasn't on another level, it was a 10 day fight, extreme diff fight. If your logic is FA=Yonko. Then Admiral=Yonko. I don't know how you can comprehend this any other way.
> 
> Also the exact quote was that she 'has the potential to be an Admiral, maybe even Fleet Admiral.' I wonder why you cut out half the quote?





Lee-Sensei said:


> That makes no sense. Sengoku was the Fleet Admiral Pre-TS and he was probably weaker than the Admirals, since he was almost 80 by that point. Akainu is the Fleet Admiral now and Aokiji gave him an extreme diff fight.


Yes, and Akainu has obviously gotten stronger after that fight unless you think Kizaru will be his equal. FA is a step above admiral it's common sense hence why it was differentiated between the two by Carmel. Obviously, Sengoku will be weaker than the pre-TS admirals as he wasn't in his prime, he isn't just going to drop his rank because he became weaker.


Kirin Thunderclap said:


> Also the exact quote was that she 'has the potential to be an Admiral, maybe even Fleet Admiral.' I wonder why you cut out half the quote?


The only translation I see says "she could be an admiral, even fleet admiral". Also, this is before she even obtained a DF.

Every yonkou has superior hype to admirals except Shanks who is unknown. Big Mom and Kaidou both have far superior feats against YC level fighters compared to admirals.

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## Ayy lmao (Apr 10, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> Akainu lost countless points when the Gorosei treated him like a dog. That's an undeniable fact.


Akainu literally told them they were overstepped by the Celestial Dragons' puppets, how exactly is that treating him like a dog? Talking back is being treated like a dog?

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Shunsuiju (Apr 10, 2021)

Ayy lmao said:


> Source?


Databook blue deep I believe.

It says "Marco foughts the Admirals as peers in support of Luffy during Marineford" or something.

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## Ayy lmao (Apr 10, 2021)

DeVision said:


> I'm soooooo gonna laugh once Luffy skips over Akainu and leaves him to Sabo.


Akainu is literally the only character in the series to have completely broken Luffy's spirit to the point he fainted and was destroying his body when he woke up, he killed the most important person in the world to him right in front of his face, and is the leader of the corrupt military force that has been a plague to the strawhat's since the beginning of the series, but sure, he will just let Sabo handle him.

Reactions: Like 3 | Tier Specialist 1


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## JustSumGuy (Apr 10, 2021)

Ayy lmao said:


> Akainu is literally the only character in the series to have completely broken Luffy's spirit to the point he fainted and was destroying his body, he killed the most important person in the world to him right in front of his face, and is the leader of the military force that has been a plague to the strawhat's since the beginning of the series, but sure, he will just let Sabo handle him.


I honestly find it much more likely that Sabo gets to Akainu first, loses (probably because of the aforementioned advantage Akainu will always have over the user of the mera mera), and right before he gives the finishing blow that’s when Luffy comes in and this time he’s able to save his brother.

Like I’m more surprised people don’t think that’s gonna happen because Luffy coming in to save his loved one from the antagonist is a constant theme in this series.

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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 10, 2021)

Ezekjuninor said:


> Yes, and Akainu has obviously gotten stronger after that fight unless you think Kizaru will be his equal. FA is a step above admiral it's common sense hence why it was differentiated between the two by Carmel. Obviously, Sengoku will be weaker than the pre-TS admirals as he wasn't in his prime, he isn't just going to drop his rank because he became weaker.
> 
> The only translation I see says "she could be an admiral, even fleet admiral". Also, this is before she even obtained a DF.
> 
> Every yonkou has superior hype to admirals except Shanks who is unknown. Big Mom and Kaidou both have far superior feats against YC level fighters compared to admirals.


Akainu was around 53 years old. We have no reason to believe that he got stronger. And it needs to be said again that a weakened Akainu took on almost every WB Commander including Marco and Vista by himself.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## DeVision (Apr 10, 2021)

Ayy lmao said:


> Akainu is literally the only character in the series to have completely broken Luffy's spirit to the point he fainted and was destroying his body, he killed the most important person in the world to him right in front of his face, and is the leader of the military force that has been a plague to the strawhat's since the beginning of the series, but sure, he will just let Sabo handle him.



You spelt Kuma wrong.

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## Ayy lmao (Apr 10, 2021)

JustSumGuy said:


> I honestly find it much more likely that Sabo gets to Akainu first, loses (probably because of the aforementioned advantage Akainu will always have over the user of the mera mera), and right before he gives the finishing blow that’s when Luffy comes in and this time he’s able to save his brother.
> 
> Like I’m more surprised people don’t think that’s gonna happen because Luffy coming in to save his loved one from the antagonist is a constant theme in this series.


I agree, I can totally envision Sabo fighting Akainu, losing only to be saved by Luffy like Law did against Doffy or the nine red scabards did against Kaido


Shunsuiju said:


> Databook blue deep I believe.
> 
> It says "Marco foughts the Admirals as peers in support of Luffy during Marineford" or something.


Marco and Vista fought Akainu and couldn't do jack to him, so it's blatantly false that Marco fought them as equals. He  didn't do any damage to any of them, unlike Kizaru who did blow his head and wounded him when he was cuffed. If a Databook has a contradicting statement with the manga, the statement shouldn't be used, but if it doesnt i dont see why not. in marco's case, it is contradicted, the statement about Shanks being = admirals is not.

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## Ayy lmao (Apr 10, 2021)

DeVision said:


> You spelt Kuma wrong.


Luffy started crying, then when he woke up, his first instinct was to find his crewmate and go back to Sabody. When Akainu killed Ace, his spirit broke resulting in him fainting, when he woke up, he started self-harming out of sheer rage and had lost his spirit. He didn't have any will to continue his journey or letting his body heal. His spirit didn't break after Kuma seperated them, not even close, he was just upset. Hardly the first time that has happened.

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## DeVision (Apr 10, 2021)

Ayy lmao said:


> Luffy started crying, then he woke up, his first instinct was to find his crewmate and go back to Sabody. When Akainu killed Ace, his spirit broke resulting in him fainting, when he woke up, he started self-harming out of sheer rage and had lost his spirit. His spirit didn't break after Kuma seperated them, not even close, he was just upset. Hardly the first time that has happened.



Luffy fainted 'cause he was fainted long ago. The only thing that let him stay conscious was Iva's hormones.

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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 10, 2021)

DeVision said:


> Luffy fainted 'cause he was fainted long ago. The only thing that let him stay conscious was Iva's hormones.


Akainu broke Luffy’s spirit in a way that no one else ever has.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Udell (Apr 10, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> The lurking legend is the Rocks stuff.


Wait are you sure because Oda made it sound like the lurking legend will be a future opponent of Luffy.


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## Ayy lmao (Apr 10, 2021)

DeVision said:


> Luffy fainted 'cause he was fainted long ago. The only thing that let him stay conscious was Iva's hormones.


nope, Iva clearly says " his mind is completely crushed" right after Ace dies, there is no mention of hormones in the chapter. The hormone's effects where already worn off right after Ace and Akainu clashed, as Jinbei stated, when we see Luffy reach out after Ace's vivre card on the floor.


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## Ezekjuninor (Apr 10, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Akainu was around 53 years old. We have no reason to believe that he got stronger. And it needs to be said again that a weakened Akainu took on almost every WB Commander including Marco and Vista by himself.


We're told haki blooms in extreme conditions of battle. If you think Akainu hasn't gotten stronger at all, him being FV is even less likely. You would have to believe that each admiral is FV material which is asinine.

Akainu took on every commander for a minute or two at best and only defeated Curiel, the next panel we see commanders battling the marines, there isn't a single panel where we actually see multiple commanders fighting Akainu. Even in the panel of Akainu defeating Curiel we see marines backing him up.


Aokiji required a distraction to defeat Jozu meanwhile Kaidou stomped post WCI gear 4th Luffy. An amnesiac BM without haki or abilities blitz and knocks out Queen in 2 hits. BM is able to chokehold Marco in mere moments leaving him vulnerable for Perospero meanwhile Kizaru requires a distraction just to create the same opportunity for Onigumo. Fujitora with Greenbull's help was put in bandages from 4 revos that shouldn't even be as strong as the 9 scabbards as a group which Kaidou easily defeated in base. We've consistently been shown Yonkous superior to admirals.

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## Chrollo Lucilfer (Apr 10, 2021)

@Lee-Sensei you working overtime my boy  

I'm on the ship that says Akainu is one of the last three fights luffy goes through
but when Fujitora came back bandaged after fighting revo commanders with no feats or hype it left a huge stain on the admirals rep as a whole
until we found out more of what happen this a losing battle tbh, fuck fuji and his blind ass 



Ayy lmao said:


> Marco and Vista fought Akainu and couldn't do jack to him, so it's blatantly false that Marco fought them as equals. He also didn't do any damage to them at all, unlike Kizaru who did blow his head and wounded him when he was cuffed. If a Databook has a contradicting statement with the manga, the statement shouldn't be used, but if it doesnt i dont see why not. in marco's case, it is contradicted.


Another databook says "4 Yonkos With Their Crews=Marine HQ + Shichibukai"
one also says "Zoro deserves to be the vice-captain of SH crew. He is as strong as Luffy and obeys Luffy's orders unconditionally." which i know everyone will argue against, soo throw all databooks out or they're all facts, no picking what you want to be facts for your tier list

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## TheOmega (Apr 10, 2021)

Akainu fans love everything about bitchass Red Dog except hearing that he really acts and is treated like a dog lol

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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 10, 2021)

Ezekjuninor said:


> We're told haki blooms in extreme conditions of battle. If you think Akainu hasn't gotten stronger at all, him being FV is even less likely. You would have to believe that each admiral is FV material which is asinine.
> 
> Akainu took on every commander for a minute or two at best and only defeated Curiel, the next panel we see commanders battling the marines, there isn't a single panel where we actually see multiple commanders fighting Akainu. Even in the panel of Akainu defeating Curiel we see marines backing him up.
> 
> ...


There’s nothing asinine about it at all. The Emperors, Admirals and Mihawk are all at the top of the One Piece world. EOS Luffy will probably be stronger than them, but never enough to beat them without high diff.

This is so desperate. Yes. Akainu took on the Whitebeard Commanders by himself. Before that, Marco and Vista blindsided him at the same time and he shook off their attacks easily.

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## Ezekjuninor (Apr 10, 2021)

Chrollo Lucilfer said:


> @Lee-Sensei you working overtime my boy
> 
> I'm on the ship that says Akainu is one of the last three fights luffy goes through
> but when Fujitora came back bandaged after fighting revo commanders with no feats or hype it left a huge stain on the admirals rep as a whole
> ...


Honestly, Fujitora is pitiful. At least BM has great feats with her bad feats. Fujitora's best feat is lifting rubble

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## TheOmega (Apr 10, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Akainu broke Luffy’s spirit in a way that no one else ever has.



I don't credit the spirit breaking to Akainu, I credit it to Ace dying in front of him after going thru hell and back to finally save him.

Ya'll actin like Akainu beat the shit outta Luffy until he submitted lol

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## Ayy lmao (Apr 10, 2021)

TheOmega said:


> I don't credit the spirit breaking to Akainu, I credit it to Ace dying in front of him after going thru hell and back to finally save him.
> 
> Ya'll actin like Akainu beat the shit outta Luffy until he submitted lol


Why do you think Ace died? Why are you acting as if Akainu wasn't the cause of his death, as if Ace died of natural causes?

Also:





Chrollo Lucilfer said:


> Another databook says "4 Yonkos With Their Crews=Marine HQ + Shichibukai"
> one also says "Zoro deserves to be the vice-captain of SH crew. He is as strong as Luffy and obeys Luffy's orders unconditionally." which i know everyone will argue against, soo throw all databooks out or they're all facts, no picking what you want to be facts for your tier list


Pretty sure Garp and the Gorosei said the same thing about the 4 Yonkos so not sure what your point is?
I'm going to need a source on Zoro being stated to be as strong as Luffy, and no, we should not throw all of them out just because of that. As I said, pick whatever statement that isn't contradicted, discard the ones that are, it's that simple.

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## JustSumGuy (Apr 10, 2021)

TheOmega said:


> I don't credit the spirit breaking to Akainu, I credit it to Ace dying in front of him after going thru hell and back to finally save him.
> 
> Ya'll actin like Akainu beat the shit outta Luffy until he submitted lol


I get where you’re coming from but I do think Oda used Akainu as the representation of strength compared to Luffy’s own weakness at the time.

Like when Luffy declares he’s too weak to be Pirate King he thinks of Akainu killing Ace right before. And again, he is still affected by that thought to this day as his reaction to Akainu’s name at Fishman Island shows.

Usually, Luffy is fighting an anatagonist on the behalf of someone else. Akainu really is the only antagonist where I think it’s truly personal for Luffy.

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## Chrollo Lucilfer (Apr 10, 2021)

Ayy lmao said:


> Pretty sure Garp and the Gorosei said the same thing about the 4 Yonkos so not sure what your point is?
> I'm going to need a source on Zoro being stated to be as strong as Luffy, and no, we should not throw all of them out just because of that. As I said, pick whatever statement that isn't contradicted, discard the ones that are, it's that simple.


nigg i was tryna back you since he claimed one databoook says Marco~Admirals

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## Kirin Thunderclap (Apr 10, 2021)

Ezekjuninor said:


> Yes, and Akainu has obviously gotten stronger after that fight unless you think Kizaru will be his equal. FA is a step above admiral it's common sense hence why it was differentiated between the two by Carmel. Obviously, Sengoku will be weaker than the pre-TS admirals as he wasn't in his prime, he isn't just going to drop his rank because he became weaker.
> 
> The only translation I see says "she could be an admiral, even fleet admiral". Also, this is before she even obtained a DF.
> 
> Every yonkou has superior hype to admirals except Shanks who is unknown. Big Mom and Kaidou both have far superior feats against YC level fighters compared to admirals.


The burden of proof is on you to prove that Akainu got significantly stronger after beating Aokiji.

  You think if the yonko fought to the death, it would be a stalemate forever? No. It would be an extreme diff fight. That doesn't mean I would put that yonko on a different level.

 Kizaru can be weaker than Akainu and still be on his level. There has to be a victor in a fight. 

Yes, and you cut off the quote to insinuate that mother caramel thought that the Admiral position was way beneath her and only FA would suffice. Don't pretend otherwise lol. 

The DF literally means nothing when factoring in potential. You can have the potential to be a yonko or admiral without a df.

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## Kirin Thunderclap (Apr 10, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> Akainu lost countless points when the Gorosei treated him like a dog. That's an undeniable fact.



Teach has lost countless points when Magellan one shot him and his crew.

See how dumb your logic is when you make comments without context?

Reactions: Like 3


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## Godammit (Apr 10, 2021)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Akainu = 100
> Aokiji = 99
> canon
> 
> ...


He couldnt even use proper haki


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## Shunsuiju (Apr 10, 2021)

Ayy lmao said:


> Marco and Vista fought Akainu and couldn't do jack to him, so it's blatantly false that Marco fought them as equals. He  didn't do any damage to any of them, unlike Kizaru who did blow his head and wounded him when he was cuffed. If a Databook has a contradicting statement with the manga, the statement shouldn't be used, but if it doesnt i dont see why not. *in marco's case, it is contradicted, the statement about Shanks being = admirals is not.*


Are you this dumb? If Shanks is stated in the databook to be equal to Admirals but you are admitting that they are not representative of the actual manga, then we have no reason to take it at face value and instead you have to prove that Shanks is merely equal to the Admirals based on things inside the manga.


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## Shunsuiju (Apr 10, 2021)

Chrollo Lucilfer said:


> Another databook says "4 Yonkos With Their Crews=Marine HQ + Shichibukai"


While  you misinterpret that quote it also says that literally in the manga. Soooo maybe you just cant comprehend what that means or?


Chrollo Lucilfer said:


> one also says "Zoro deserves to be the vice-captain of SH crew. *He is as strong as Luffy and obeys Luffy's orders unconditionally*." which i know everyone will argue against, soo throw all databooks out or they're all facts, *no picking what you want to be facts for your tier list*


And this is not true?

To the last bit, I agree. That's my main point in bringing up Marco to counter the Shanks being = admiral thing.


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## Chrollo Lucilfer (Apr 10, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> While you misinterpret that quote it also says that literally in the manga. Soooo maybe you just cant comprehend what that means or?


Ask most ppl here and they'll tell you another yonkou or two would've  tilted marineford war in WB's favour completely



Shunsuiju said:


> And this is not true?


As strong as Luffy implies they're somewhat very close in strength or even equal, which again a lot of ppl will be against
im just playing  devil's advocate here

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## Shunsuiju (Apr 10, 2021)

Chrollo Lucilfer said:


> Ask most ppl here and they'll tell you another yonkou or two would've  tilted marineford war in WB's favour completely


Yeah I think most people here think 7SB+Marine=Yonko actually has to do with powerscaling. That makes them dumb.


Chrollo Lucilfer said:


> As strong as Luffy implies they're somewhat very close in strength or even equal, which again a lot of ppl will be against
> im just playing  devil's advocate here


Same way Marco being Admiral level is argued both ways here

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## A Optimistic (Apr 10, 2021)

JustSumGuy said:


> Bro Akainu was not sweating Shanks that’s never been hinted at or implied. He stopped fighting when his superior ordered him too which goes in line with his character and it was also the smart thing to do as well since Shanks brought a whole army with him.



This is a lie. Akainu was shown sweating, and he was frozen in place to the point where Shanks bent over to pick up his hat. And this happened all before Sengoku gave the order for the war to end.

There’s no way to objectively watch Shanks make the Marines and the Blackbeard Pirates back down and then argue that Akainu > Shanks.

Shanks > Akainu and it’s not up for debate. And this is coming from someone who likes Akainu a lot more than Shanks.

The only people who are above Shanks are Kaido and Mihawk, no one else.

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## JustSumGuy (Apr 10, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> This is a lie. Akainu was shown sweating, and he was frozen in place to the point where Shanks bent over to pick up his hat. And this happened all before Sengoku gave the order for the war to end.
> 
> There’s no way to objectively watch Shanks make the Marines and the Blackbeard Pirates back down and then argue that Akainu > Shanks.
> 
> Shanks > Akainu and it’s not up for debate. And this is coming from someone who likes Akainu a lot more than Shanks.


I was using “sweating” not in the literal sense but more of a slang term for being scared of someone. If anything, Akainu was stunned that another Yonko had showed up after dealing with the supposedly WSM. But I don’t believe Akainu is innately afraid of Shanks like so many people do.


Why is it so hard to grasp that Shanks did not pull up to Marineford alone? Judging by Sengoku’s comments, the Red Hair Pirates are maybe the most revered crew in the world right now. Why would Akainu charge at Shanks when Beckmann, Roux, and Yasopp are all next to him? It’d be suicide and even know Akainu’s bloodthirsty, he’s not dumb far from it actually.

If Shanks pulls up on the war solo without his crew I don’t think things play out the same. If a fresh Akainu is face to face with a fresh Shanks without backup that’s a completely different story and everyone knows that.


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## A Optimistic (Apr 10, 2021)

JustSumGuy said:


> I was using “sweating” not in the literal sense but more of a slang term for being scared of someone. If anything, Akainu was stunned that another Yonko had showed up after dealing with the supposedly WSM. But I don’t believe Akainu is innately afraid of Shanks like so many people do.
> 
> 
> Why is it so hard to grasp that Shanks did not pull up to Marineford alone? Judging by Sengoku’s comments, the Red Hair Pirates are maybe the most revered crew in the world right now. Why would Akainu charge at Shanks when Beckmann, Roux, and Yasopp are all next to him? It’d be suicide and even know Akainu’s bloodthirsty, he’s not dumb far from it actually.
> ...



Beckman, Yassop, and Lucky Roo were not near Shanks when Shanks blocked Akainu’s punch. Anyways the issue is Akainu went from yelling all pirates should be exterminated and was willing to fight all the Whitebeard Commanders despite it being pointless as Coby/Smoker pointed out but the second Shanks appeared his energy changed. Suddenly that whole “kill all pirates” energy vanished.

As for your hypothetical scenario of a 1v1 Shanks vs Akainu, I feel confident Shanks would win. Not sure what the difficulty would be though.


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## JustSumGuy (Apr 10, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Beckman, Yassop, and Lucky Roo were not near Shanks when Shanks blocked Akainu’s punch. Anyways the issue is Akainu went from yelling all pirates should be exterminated and was willing to fight all the Whitebeard Commanders despite it being pointless as Coby/Smoker pointed out but the second Shanks appeared his energy changed. Suddenly that whole “kill all pirates” energy vanished.
> 
> As for your hypothetical scenario of a 1v1 Shanks vs Akainu, I feel confident Shanks would win. Not sure what the difficulty would be though.


Of course that energy would disappear. This is an emperor of the sea we’re talking about and his appearance caught him by surprise. Kaido is probably the worlds strongest dude in your opinion based on your comments and even he was “sweating” when Big Mom came to Wano  telling his crew to make sure she does not make it onto land and being visibly concerned. Doesn’t mean you think he’s weaker than her though.

If I’m picturing myself in Akainu’s shoes, I’m waiting to find out why in the blue hell is Shanks here before I do anything cause I’m already injured and don’t have the energy to fight another Yonko and common sense dictates his super strong commanders are probably not far behind.

And can’t imagine a fight between Shanks or Akainu would be anything less than high diff no matter who you think wins.


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## Van Basten (Apr 10, 2021)

Kaido and Big Mom fans are something else.

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## A Optimistic (Apr 10, 2021)

JustSumGuy said:


> Kaido is probably the worlds strongest dude in your opinion based on your comments and even he was “sweating” when Big Mom came to Wano telling his crew to make sure she does not make it onto land and being visibly concerned. Doesn’t mean you think he’s weaker than her though.



There’s a difference. Obviously Kaido doesn’t want another Yonko to land on his territory, nobody does. But when she did arrive, he told his subordinates to take off her chains and challenged her to a 1v1, meanwhile Akainu froze when Shanks arrive. Akainu made no effort to even attack Shanks once.

You focus on Shanks backup but you don’t acknowledge that Akainu also had back up. Kizaru and Aokiji were nearby and were fresh and half the Marines were behind Akainu. If anything, half the Marines is probably more men then Shanks has in his crew.

You also say that it’s common sense to not want to fight another Yonko, but then going by that logic isn’t it common sense to not want to fight 15 Whitebeard Commanders + Crocodile? Especially when the Marines already accomplished their goal. You don’t find it odd that Akainu was willing to fight all of them but wasn’t open to fighting Shanks? To me it seems like Akainu felt confident against the Whitebeard Commanders but didn’t have that same confidence for Shanks.

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## Shunsuiju (Apr 10, 2021)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> The burden of proof is on you to prove that Akainu got significantly stronger after beating Aokiji.
> 
> *  You think if the yonko fought to the death, it would be a stalemate forever? No. It would be an extreme diff fight. That doesn't mean I would put that yonko on a different level.
> 
> ...


This notion isn't neccesarily true. Roger and Whitebeard could fight for 20 days and have a draw. Dorry and Broggy fought for an eternity and there was no victor. Ace and Jimbei fought for 5 days until they were both exhausted and there was no victor. Luffy and Zoro could hypothetically fight to a draw after 100 days. Point is, Akainu was superior to Aokiji. In the same way, Aokiji could be superior to Kizaru/Fujitora/Greenbull. Just like Garp was > Sengoku and Sengoku in his prime is > someone like Kizaru. I think that Akainu=/>Aokiji=/>Kizaru/rest makes the most sense in terms of narrative importance.

So this logic that they must be all on the same level doesn't really fly. In contrast, I do think that Oda has intended to portray the Yonko in a very similar light (outside of Whitebeard and/or Teach). Akainu is the Fleet Admiral, I don't really expect Kizaru/Fujitora/Greenbull to be on his level. Fujitora (a swordsman) being on the same level as Mihawk, where I put Akainu, doesn't make sense from a narrative perspective.

The Yonko are not the Admirals, they don't have to be two groups where their members are all as strong as one another. Admiral-level is the highest level you can be on, but there are different levels of strength even within Admiral-level. That's why I believe some commanders make it into Admiral/Top tier, but are not exactly as strong as any Admiral ever in existence.


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## JustSumGuy (Apr 10, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> There’s a difference. Obviously Kaido doesn’t want another Yonko to land on his territory, nobody does. But when she did arrive, he told his subordinates to take off her chains and challenged her to a 1v1, meanwhile Akainu froze when Shanks arrive. Akainu made no effort to even attack Shanks once.
> 
> You focus on Shanks backup but you don’t acknowledge that Akainu also had back up. Kizaru and Aokiji were nearby and were fresh and half the Marines were behind Akainu. If anything, half the Marines is probably more men then Shanks has in his crew.
> 
> You also say that it’s common sense to not want to fight another Yonko, but then going by that logic isn’t it common sense to not want to fight 15 Whitebeard Commanders + Crocodile? Especially when the Marines already accomplished their goal. You don’t find it odd that Akainu was willing to fight all of them but wasn’t open to fighting Shanks? To me it seems like Akainu felt confident against the Whitebeard Commanders but didn’t have that same confidence for Shanks.


The Kaido and BM situation has the benefit of having extended interaction between the two and I think it helps my point that you can’t always know what’s going on through a character’s head just based on a character sweating once or twice or being concerned about another top tier. The situation with Shanks all really happened in less than two chapters if I recall correctly and Akainu hasn’t been seen interacting with him since.

Half the marines is an overstatement a lot of the marines were hesitant to fight at that point and that’s why Akainu was screaming at the top of his lungs about absolute justice and don’t forget that Blackbeard just popped up on the scene with WB’s powers. That whole situation was chaos and even with 3 admirals, they were also on their home turf. At that point, no matter who wins the marines ultimately lose if Marineford is destroyed.

Akainu wanted to finish off the WB Pirates and thereby wanted to take down the commanders. But again, yes his tune would change when a whole other yonko and his crew pull up. I’m not trying to say Shanks is a scrub yes of course dealing with him would be harder than taking care of the remnants of WB.


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## Ayy lmao (Apr 10, 2021)

Chrollo Lucilfer said:


> nigg i was tryna back you since he claimed one databoook says Marco~Admirals


sorry, dont mind my stupid ass


Shunsuiju said:


> Are you this dumb? If Shanks is stated in the databook to be equal to Admirals but you are admitting that they are not representative of the actual manga, then we have no reason to take it at face value and instead you have to prove that Shanks is merely equal to the Admirals based on things inside the manga.


No, I'm saying* some* parts of DB should be used, unless it's contradicted. But whatever,  I see where you are coming from, so nevermind the DB stuff.

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## Shunsuiju (Apr 10, 2021)

Ayy lmao said:


> sorry, dont mind my stupid ass
> 
> No, I'm saying* some* parts of DB should be used, unless it's contradicted. But whatever,  I see where you are coming from, so nevermind the DB stuff.


I think there is credence to most of what the "DB(s)" say and I think the reason Shanks was stated to be able to fight the Admirals as an equal is because "equality" in this context is more general. He is Admiral-level, synonymous with "top-tier" in this universe, but he is on the higher end of this level. Same way that Marco is Admiral-level but on the lower end.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Dellinger (Apr 11, 2021)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> Teach has lost countless points when Magellan one shot him and his crew.
> 
> See how dumb your logic is when you make comments without context?


Why are you comparing 2 completely different things ?


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## Ezekjuninor (Apr 11, 2021)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> The burden of proof is on you to prove that Akainu got significantly stronger after beating Aokiji.


You're asking for proof when your whole argument revolves around "Akainu will be FV because I think so", are you serious? If you don't think Akainu's gotten stronger at all since MF I couldn't care less it would just put him as peers to all the other admirals which is sad tbh.


Kirin Thunderclap said:


> You think if the yonko fought to the death, it would be a stalemate forever? No. It would be an extreme diff fight. That doesn't mean I would put that yonko on a different level.
> 
> Kizaru can be weaker than Akainu and still be on his level. There has to be a victor in a fight.


I'm not saying Akainu is a step above the other admirals because he beat Aokiji after 10 days. I believe he's a step above because he's likely gotten stronger after an extreme diff battle that took 10 days because we're told that's how haki blooms. And again if you don't think so that's fine it just puts Akainu equal to the other admirals which makes him look worse.



Kirin Thunderclap said:


> Yes, and you cut off the quote to insinuate that mother caramel thought that the Admiral position was way beneath her and only FA would suffice. Don't pretend otherwise lol.
> 
> The DF literally means nothing when factoring in potential. You can have the potential to be a yonko or admiral without a df.


I didn't insinuate admiral was way beneath BM I don't think there's some massive gap between admiral and FA. My point is that BM has greater hype than an admiral and her potential was put at FA by Mother Carmel. While Kaidou and WB easily have far greater hype than an admiral. BM and Kaidou also have far greater feats than an admiral when against opponents of a similar level. 

DF doesn't affect your potential? What? So you're saying if Luffy didn't have a DF his potential wouldn't change? That makes absolutely no sense.


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## Pagn6 (Apr 11, 2021)

Emperors and admirals are in the same tier, as they have consistently been portrayed to be throughout the entire story.

Chapter 1010 and the whole CoC thing doesn't change that dynamic and I don't know how it could have.


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## Ayy lmao (Apr 11, 2021)

Pagn6 said:


> Emperors and admirals are in the same tier, as they have consistently been portrayed to be throughout the entire story.
> 
> Chapter 1010 and the whole CoC thing doesn't change that dynamic and I don't know how it could have.


it's because people have convinced themselves Admirals cannot possibly have CoC, even though Sengoku, the former fleet admiral, is stated to have it. And either he's not the only one, or you can fight yonko-level characters without it.
If CoC is required to compete with prime WB,Roger,Xebec,Shiki then that either means Garp has CoC or CoC is not required to fight and defeat said top tiers. In other words, this chapter does not confirm shit about Yonkos being >> Admirals.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## hajimehipo (Apr 11, 2021)

WHERE MIHAWK AT ?

Shankkkksssss


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## Sablés (Apr 11, 2021)

Pagn6 said:


> as they have consistently been portrayed to be throughout the entire story.


Where?

Reactions: Winner 1


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## MO (Apr 11, 2021)

JustSumGuy said:


> I honestly find it much more likely that Sabo gets to Akainu first, loses (probably because of the aforementioned advantage Akainu will always have over the user of the mera mera), and right before he gives the finishing blow that’s when Luffy comes in and this time he’s able to save his brother.
> 
> Like I’m more surprised people don’t think that’s gonna happen because Luffy coming in to save his loved one from the antagonist is a constant theme in this series.


Y'all are going to be fuming when Sabo actually beats Akainu.

Reactions: Winner 2 | Disagree 1 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## ShadoLord (Apr 11, 2021)

MO said:


> Y'all are going to be fuming when Sabo actually beats Akainu.


Sabo seem to be facing the Ace’s execution 2.0 lol

he ain’t got time to even avenge Akainu when his own ass is on fire

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shunsuiju (Apr 11, 2021)

MO said:


> Y'all are going to be fuming when Sabo actually beats Akainu.


I can see Sabo fighting Lucci. Akainu is FV material.


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## Sherlōck (Apr 12, 2021)

That' not how OFFICIAL works. 

Also using Mother Caramel as reference.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Jo Ndule (Apr 12, 2021)

If kuzan is under Teach
Then you think Akainu cam even be above shanks ?

Kaido >= Linlin
Shanks >~ Teach ~ Akainu
Admirals ~ Luffy


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## Strobacaxi (Apr 12, 2021)

So we now know that CoC infused attacks are the real powerhouse of the top tiers.
We also know that MF WB was unable to use CoC as shown by Luffy having to save Ace with CoC instead of WB.

So the old sick heart attack ridden WB who equally matched Akainu was even more nerfed than we previously thought

Can we stop this BS now?

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 2


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## Eustathios (Apr 12, 2021)

Old Whitebeard was still presented as the strongest in the world by the author, CoC or not. The Admirals' performances against him are just as impressive now. Haki was a very vague concept pre-TS anyway.

Reactions: Like 3 | Optimistic 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 12, 2021)

By matched, you mean that Akainu melted his brain without using awakening.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Shanks (Apr 12, 2021)

Prime WB is a real monster. EOS Villians and Protagonist will be beast incarnated.

The problem with people is that they Continue to make head canon to fit their tier list. 8 years ago I remember that everyone agreed Sick Beard was still WSM during MF. Now Admiral Gangs believe he isn't, because of Kaido and Big Mom's feats.

Now, people will try to down play even further, I guess.


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## Duhul10 (Apr 12, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> Old Whitebeard was still presented as the strongest in the world by the author, CoC or not. The Admirals' performances against him are just as impressive now. Haki was a very vague concept pre-TS anyway.


Nah, he wasn't actually, hence the numerous statements regarding his form


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## Eustathios (Apr 12, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Nah, he wasn't actually, hence the numerous statements regarding his form



Buggy: The strongest pirate and the man closest to One Piece

Garp: The King of the Sea

Sengoku: He's the Strongest Man in the World (after seeing that WB was weakened to the point of Squardo having a shot at stabbing him)

Shanks: (hears Ace say he'll prove himself against the strongest) Oh you mean Whitebeard?

Big Mom: I would've taken down Kaido, Shanks and EVEN Whitebeard!

The only statement that is used to counter that is Marco saying he would've dodged Squardo or Whitebeard saying he can't be the strongest forever, but both only show that he had declined a lot and puts Prime WB on another level.

Regardless, the author's word > character statements. Even if the entire OP world believes something to be false, if the author says it's true, we go with Oda's word. Not that it's the case here anyway. The consensus was that Whitebeard was the strongest.

Reactions: Like 3 | Disagree 1


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## Strobacaxi (Apr 12, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> Buggy: The strongest pirate and the man closest to One Piece
> 
> Garp: The King of the Sea
> 
> ...


Also WB: Fails to use CoO, fails to use CoC, uses weak versions of CoA, can't dodge fodder, damaged by fodder


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## Eustathios (Apr 12, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Also WB: Fails to use CoO, fails to use CoC, uses weak versions of CoA, can't dodge fodder, damaged by fodder


Straw man arguments. Was he or was he not introduced as the strongest man by Oda?


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## Gitagon (Apr 12, 2021)

The fact is that the difference between Akainu and Kuzan is almost negligible. They fought at least 9 days without a winner and the winner was onky decided on the 10th day. That means they are fully neck to neck.


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## Samehadaman (Apr 12, 2021)

Nope, I am continuing with this "BS" as nothing changed.
Wait for the Admirals to really fight. We will know then. 

If you are too caught up on Rayleigh or Marco or Luffy landing a hit on them, just remember Big Mom getting yeeted by Jinbe, Robin etc., Kaido getting punched to the floor by Luffy when he was flying around (only to get up and murk him).

If you are too caught up on what techniques they showed, remember how many years ago Marineford was written and Shanks losing his arm to a fish. Nothing in Marineford made much sense by current rules, for example out of  hundreds of top to high and mid tier pirates and Marines clashing, not a single panel of black CoA, is it nobody had it, or that Oda hadn't finished concept yet?

Characters show their true power when it is their arc or moment. And power inflation is coming, just you wait.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 3


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## Strobacaxi (Apr 12, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> Straw man arguments. Was he or was he not introduced as the strongest man by Oda?


You don't know what straw man is do you

He was introduced with that title, which was later disproven by the simple fact that he was not shown to be stronger than Akainu in MF.
We also know for a fact that with his haki levels in MF he can't be WSM. Very simple. If he can't use CoC, he can't beat Kaido. If he can't use CoO, he can't beat Kaido, if he can't use advanced CoA, he can't beat Kaido, if he can't fight for 5 minutes without getting a heart attack, he can't beat Kaidio


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## Samehadaman (Apr 12, 2021)

By the way, I am only "Admiral Gang" because literally nobody says Admirals > Yonko, people only do Yonko > Admirals, so to argue for = is to be "Admiral wanker".

Whitebeard and Blackbeard are among my favorite characters and I think Kaido is pretty cool.

If this forum was caught up on making 5 threads a day on Admirals > Yonko I would be a Yonko wanker instead. But alas it is the opposite. Have a quick look at titles in first 2 or 3 pages and tell me this thread is necessary and quality.

Reactions: Like 3 | Winner 1


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## Corax (Apr 12, 2021)

This is a new hadcanon. Sengoku has CoC so Sengoku is>Garp. I am pretty sure they have been portrayed as at least equals with a slighter lead of Garp since by Roger's own admission they could've killed each over multiple times. But at least now we know why Roger considered his potential fight with Sengoku fun. They were both advanced CoC users.


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## Beast (Apr 12, 2021)

So, what exactly changed?

WB was still the strongest ever and his DF is advanced BH/ CoC already lol.
Just seems to me that Oda is just giving top tiers WBs powers realising he made WB too powerful at that age.

Admirals are still going to turn around and use all these advanced hakis and DF awakening and whatever other fighting styles/ martial arts there is.


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## Corax (Apr 12, 2021)

Shanks said:


> The problem with people is that they Continue to make head canon to fit their tier list. 8 years ago I remember that everyone agreed Sick Beard was still WSM during MF. Now Admiral Gangs believe he isn't, because of Kaido and Big Mom's feats.
> 
> Now, people will try to down play even further, I guess.


To be fair how Kaido's/BM's feats are even related to WB?Different opponents,different battlefields,different situations. By the looks of it Kaido too can't use frog kata aCoC+CoA like Luffy/Roger/WB did (or he would've countered Luffy). But this doesn't mean that he is weaker than Luffy or is a weaker character overall.


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## Strobacaxi (Apr 12, 2021)

Corax said:


> By the looks of it Kaido too can't use frog kata aCoC+CoA like Luffy/Roger/WB did


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## Seraphoenix (Apr 12, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> Buggy: The strongest pirate and the man closest to One Piece
> 
> Garp: The King of the Sea
> 
> ...


All of those statements were predicated on WB being in his prime. He had the title of WSM since the days of Roger. You get the title presumably by doing something. The story of MF was that WB wasn't the strongest anymore. He even says as much and comforts himself by saying that if he can save Ace then that should be enough. He wasn't disagreeing with Crocodile's assessment.

The problem is most people don't understand titles. They rely on infoboxes which are actually the in-verse perception. How did Sengoku know WB had the title of WSM? Did Oda tell him or did Primebeard do something to be recognised as such? It's obvious that he did something in the manga. Same with Mihawk. Whether that title is still valid at any given time, is based on actual evidence from the manga. Akainu said he could not escape old age before filling him with magma. Without PIS Akainu could have just taken WB's head off there. Croc called him weak. Marco confirmed he should have been able to dodge. We know know he could not use advanced CoC, which means he had no chance of killing Kaido so he was automatically weaker. We also know from the Ace novel that the WB pirates were hiding WB's sickness from the world. Despite that the prevailing perception was that Kaido was even stronger than a healthy old WB.

Demaro Black is not Monkey D. Luffy despite what the infobox said. Momo is not Kinnemon's son despite what the infobox said. It's very clearly a perception at the time, not the 'author's word'. That is a dumb idea in the first place from a writing perspective as it removes ambiguity and speculation. 

Also Prime WB is not some mythical creature far above the current Yonko. They are all Great Pirates. *The Roger that clashed equally with Primebeard for 3 days had the title of Great Pirate, just like the current Yonko.* So any difference between Primebeard and the other Great Pirates is marginal. It's even more obvious now that we can see that Kaido can do the exact same thing they did when clashing. People also forget that WB had the strongest crew (With Ace and BB), which is why he had the capability of becoming King.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 2 | Dislike 1


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## Sherlōck (Apr 12, 2021)

At least start your yammering after we see an Admiral in full fight.

I have no idea why you plebs are making 3/4 threads every week stating Yonko>>Admiral in an arc where two primary villains are Yonko.

YonkoStans are insecure as fuck.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Apr 12, 2021)

WB was the WSM, Admirals fought equally with him. 

Nothing has changed, Admirals and Yonko are roughly equal meaning none of them are beating each other with less than high diff.

Taking concepts like haki from earlier arcs and then comparing them to later arcs will only bite BM and Kaido in the ass.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Apr 12, 2021)

Sherlōck said:


> At least start your yammering after we see an Admiral in full fight.
> 
> I have no idea why you plebs are making 3/4 threads every week stating Yonko>>Admiral in an arc where two primary villains are Yonko.



Because we get in their feelings.

Rent-Free.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Corax (Apr 12, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


>


His weapon was parried and he couldn't protect himself from Luffy's barrage of attacks. Either his CoC is weaker,or he can't cover all his body/weapons in aCoC.

Reactions: Like 1


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## YoungChief (Apr 12, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> Straw man arguments. Was he or was he not introduced as the strongest man by Oda?


He also had a random ass heart attack that let Akainu get a free shot in, and WB is thinking to himself that he's getting old and can't be the strongest forever, his introduction is what people perceived WB as in the past. No one knew how much he had actually weakened, not even his own crew, you can see that with Marco being shocked at how trash his CoO and natural speed are now

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Duhul10 (Apr 12, 2021)

Seraphoenix said:


> All of those statements were predicated on WB being in his prime. He had the title of WSM since the days of Roger. You get the title presumably by doing something. The story of MF was that WB wasn't the strongest anymore. He even says as much and comforts himself by saying that if he can save Ace then that should be enough. He wasn't disagreeing with Crocodile's assessment.
> 
> The problem is most people don't understand titles. They rely on infoboxes which are actually the in-verse perception. How did Sengoku know WB had the title of WSM? Did Oda tell him or did Primebeard do something to be recognised as such? It's obvious that he did something in the manga. Same with Mihawk. Whether that title is still valid at any given time, is based on actual evidence from the manga. Akainu said he could not escape old age before filling him with magma. Without PIS Akainu could have just taken WB's head off there. Croc called him weak. Marco confirmed he should have been able to dodge. We know know he could not use advanced CoC, which means he had no chance of killing Kaido so he was automatically weaker. We also know from the Ace novel that the WB pirates were hiding WB's sickness from the world. Despite that the prevailing perception was that Kaido was even stronger than a healthy old WB.
> 
> ...


Very good post, I am too lazy to start debating people on this for the milionth time when it's already clear af.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Uchiha Maddy (Apr 12, 2021)

It was never a debate. 
Rest of The yonkos > admirals > whitefodder

Reactions: Like 1


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## Strobacaxi (Apr 12, 2021)

Sherlōck said:


> At least start your yammering after we see an Admiral in full fight.
> 
> I have no idea why you plebs are making 3/4 threads every week stating Yonko>>Admiral in an arc where two primary villains are Yonko.
> 
> YonkoStans are insecure as fuck.


Because every week we get further confirmation that Yonko > Admirals what can we say

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Apr 12, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Because every week we get further confirmation that Yonko > Admirals what can we say




Whatever you say,buddy.

Reactions: Like 2


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## YellowCosmos (Apr 12, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Because every week we get further confirmation that Yonko > Admirals what can we say



Every week you assume that absence of evidence is evidence of absence. If we had evidence that Admirals couldn't use advanced CoC or even CoC in general, this thread might not be pointless. (Note, I'm one of the skeptics about Admirals having CoC, although it seems that these days everyone and their grandmother has CoC).

Oda retconned haki post-TS, introducing Black Armament. He's introduced at least three advanced forms of haki that weren't even hinted at before the TS. What guarantee can you give that the next time we see an Admiral they won't be using Future Sight, advanced CoA, advanced CoC, or something else that Oda has yet to introduce? What guarantee do you have, that even without advanced CoC, what they can do with their DFs won't match what Kaido and Whitebeard can do with their CoC? Short of such a guarantee, this thread is pointless, because you're not working with complete information. (Note that the pre-TS Admirals seem to have had the only form of advanced haki hinted at back then - barrier haki - but whether that was CoA or CoA/CoC or something else entirely only Eneru knows).

Also, note that Shanks's feats pre-TS (the clash with Whitebeard and blocking Akainu) don't involve black armament or the CoA/CoC barrier, but everyone seems willing to make the assumption that his hype means that he could use those techniques, even if he didn't pre-TS and post-TS (which suggests that we all acknowledge the retcon took place).

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 2


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## Mariko (Apr 12, 2021)

2 things: 

1) During MF CoC imbued attacks didn't exist. Oda asspulled that recently to give Luffy the PU needed to beat Kaidou. 

2) Still during MF Luffy using CoC and not WB was just PIS/CIS so Luffy has his show. 

We now know he had it. He didn't used it cause it didn't exist in its advanced form back then. 

Simple.

Though ofc Yonkou > admirals (except Akainu).

One can be an admiral fan and accept the obvious truth. Power/tier arn't the only thing defining a char. 

As a char (a villain), DD is/was more likable than BM while far weaker by exemple.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## YoungChief (Apr 12, 2021)

Mariko said:


> 2 things:
> 
> 1) During MF CoC imbued attacks didn't exist. Oda asspulled that recently to give Luffy the PU needed to beat Kaidou.
> 
> ...


Well, apparently Ashura is CoC coating so maybe Oda didn't pull it out of his anus like you think.

 The only CoC users in the war confirmed are Doffy, Sengoku, Hancock, Ace, WB, and Luffy. Kaido says only a handful of the strong can use it, so we can probably eliminate Doffy, Hancock, Ace, and Luffy from the equation (Kaido said Doffy was weak) and that leaves us with Sengoku and WB the latter of which couldn't even summon his CoC without having a heart attack and Sengoku was 5 years older than him at the time so I doubt he could still use it much if even WB couldn't

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sherlōck (Apr 12, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Because every week we get further confirmation that Yonko > Admirals what can we say



There is no confirmation.

Reactions: Like 2 | Disagree 1


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Apr 12, 2021)

Mariko said:


> 2 things:
> 
> 1) During MF CoC imbued attacks didn't exist. Oda asspulled that recently to give Luffy the PU needed to beat Kaidou.
> 
> ...



Stop assuming people are only arguing for the case of character/group, solely based on who they like more.

You're basically disregarding all their arguments at that point.

Yonko>Admirals. Except Akainu
Yonko> Admirals. Except Garp
Yonko> Admirals. Except Sengoku

Seems to me like you ningen just shift the goal posts to fit your pre determined tiers.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mariko (Apr 12, 2021)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> Stop assuming people are only arguing for the case of character/group, solely based on who they like more.
> 
> You're basically disregarding all their arguments at that point.
> 
> ...



Wtf are you talking about to begin with?

I'm answering the op. We can't compare MF to current OP since things have changed concerning haki and CoC. 

That's all.

Reactions: Like 1


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## KBD (Apr 12, 2021)

Admiral fans hanging on to WB being the WSM, like WB was hanging on to dear life just trying to stand on two feet at Marineford

Reactions: Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Duhul10 (Apr 12, 2021)

KBD said:


> Admiral fans hanging on to WB being the WSM, like WB was hanging on to dear life just trying to stand on two feet at Marineford


It's the only thing they can hang onto, even though the manga clearly dictates the contrary: shit haki, shit speed, shit reactions, shit everything bar AP.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Seraphoenix (Apr 12, 2021)

Corax said:


> This is a new hadcanon. Sengoku has CoC so Sengoku is>Garp. I am pretty sure they have been portrayed as at least equals with a slighter lead of Garp since by Roger's own admission they could've killed each over multiple times. But at least now we know why Roger considered his potential fight with Sengoku fun. They were both advanced CoC users.


That's not how it works. Otherwise Doflamingo>Garp. Just because you have CoC doesn't mean you can use advanced CoC. Why should we assume Sengoku can? Also if you want to say Sengoku has CoC and Garp doesn't, because of the vivre card, then you must concede that Kizaru, Akainu and Aokiji don't have CoC either.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Apr 12, 2021)

Ezekjuninor said:


> You're asking for proof when your whole argument revolves around "Akainu will be FV because I think so", are you serious? If you don't think Akainu's gotten stronger at all since MF I couldn't care less it would just put him as peers to all the other admirals which is sad tbh



Please send me a quote, where I said any of that? I'll wait. Admiral= Yonko, doesn't seem sad to me that Akainu is marginally stronger than some of the current admirals. It is only sad in your head cannon where admirals are considerably below the Yonko.



Ezekjuninor said:


> I'm not saying Akainu is a step above the other admirals because he beat Aokiji after 10 days. I believe he's a step above because he's likely gotten stronger after an extreme diff battle that took 10 days because we're told that's how haki blooms. And again if you don't think so that's fine it just puts Akainu equal to the other admirals which makes him look worse.



Again, Akainu being marginally stronger than Aoikiji doesn't, negate the fact that FA/Admirals= Yonko. 
And once again, Akainu being on a similar level to other admirals is bad only in your headcanon where yonko>>admirals. 




Ezekjuninor said:


> I didn't insinuate admiral was way beneath BM I don't think there's some massive gap between admiral and FA. My point is that BM has greater hype than an admiral and her potential was put at FA by Mother Carmel. While Kaidou and WB easily have far greater hype than an admiral. BM and Kaidou also have far greater feats than an admiral when against opponents of a similar level.
> 
> DF doesn't affect your potential? What? So you're saying if Luffy didn't have a DF his potential wouldn't change? That makes absolutely no sense.



Every admiral with enough drive has the potential for FA, Aokiji was recommend by Sengoku to be FA. The hype of BM isn't necessarily greater than any of the C3, on this basis alone. 

Comparing post ts and pre ts feats, 1-1, without any context is dumb. Even then give me examples of these feats that far outshine anything the Admirals have done. Please do. 

No it doesn't? If it did and mother caramel is saying she could be an Admiral or FA without a DF, why isn't she a god tier? She reached her potential and has a DF.

A DF is just another path to reaching your potential.  It makes perfect sense.

Reactions: Like 2


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## KBD (Apr 12, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> It's the only thing they can hang onto, even though the manga clearly dictates the contrary: shit haki, shit speed, shit reactions, shit everything bar AP.


Its kind of Funny, also Kaidos WSC title must be fake.. But dead on his feet WB must still be the WSM... This fixes my tierlists..

Well, eventually though, they'll be like WB. They'll feel a heartattack lurking behind the next chapter and see that a Yonko crew is approaching them with revolvers drawn

And then they'll realise that its time to

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Apr 12, 2021)

Mariko said:


> Wtf are you talking about to begin with?
> 
> I'm answering the op. We can't compare MF to current OP since things have changed concerning haki and CoC.
> 
> That's all.


WTF are you talking about lmfao?

I'm replying to your exact post, I couldn't care less about who your initial post was directed to. 

I didn't address the first part of your post in regards to  Advanced CoC in MF, mostly because I somewhat agree.

I addressed the second part.

Why are you acting like that's the only thing you said?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chronophage (Apr 12, 2021)

Samehadaman said:


> *By the way, I am only "Admiral Gang" because literally nobody says Admirals > Yonko, people only do Yonko > Admirals, so to argue for = is to be "Admiral wanker".*
> 
> Whitebeard and Blackbeard are among my favorite characters and I think Kaido is pretty cool.
> 
> If this forum was caught up on making 5 threads a day on Admirals > Yonko I would be a Yonko wanker instead. But alas it is the opposite. Have a quick look at titles in first 2 or 3 pages and tell me this thread is necessary and quality.


This.

The only thing I ever argue with a straigth face is that Sakazuki (The *Fleet *Admiral and murder of the protagonists brother) is Yonkou level. Kizaru is weaker than Kaido, Big Mom and Shanks, _obviously _but still stronger than any First Mate. The gap between Kaido and King is so huuuge, you can fit entire fandoms in there.

Fujitora is the Yonkostans favorite strawman. Kaido > Fujitora, therefore any Yonkou > any Admiral. Yeah, no. How about you take your downsyndrome medications and take a seat? Fujitora and Greenbull are the replacement for Aokiji. Obviously they're weaker indvidually. Even if they're just 80% each that still adds to 160%+ power gain total.

Any of the C3 with a powerful crew and territories would be considered an Emperor if they were pirates.

Exclusive Yonkou fans are like the worst, I swear.


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## Turrin (Apr 12, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> So we now know that CoC infused attacks are the real powerhouse of the top tiers.
> We also know that MF WB was unable to use CoC as shown by Luffy having to save Ace with CoC instead of WB.
> 
> So the old sick heart attack ridden WB who equally matched Akainu was even more nerfed than we previously thought
> ...


I mean Haki + Quakes could easily still be as strong as Kaidou’s CoC attacks (actually WB still has the best attack potency feats in all of One Piece) . And the 3 Admirals likely used CoC Haku anyway. All this means is that WB in his Prime is far above Kaidou and the Admirals.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Corax (Apr 12, 2021)

Seraphoenix said:


> That's not how it works. Otherwise Doflamingo>Garp. Just because you have CoC doesn't mean you can use advanced CoC. Why should we assume Sengoku can? Also if you want to say Sengoku has CoC and Garp doesn't, because of the vivre card, then you must concede that Kizaru, Akainu and Aokiji don't have CoC either.


We only have vivre card information at this moment. For now admirals and Garp don't have CoC,but Sengoku has. Though this might be retconned soon (in Garp's case at very least).


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## Ezekjuninor (Apr 12, 2021)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> Please send me a quote, where I said any of that? I'll wait. Admiral= Yonko, doesn't seem sad to me that Akainu is marginally stronger than some of the current admirals. It is only sad in your head cannon where admirals are considerably below the Yonko.


Well, you've clearly agreed with posts that have said so.


Kirin Thunderclap said:


> They want shit writing, so it can fit their tiers lmao.





Kirin Thunderclap said:


> Again, Akainu being marginally stronger than Aoikiji doesn't, negate the fact that FA/Admirals= Yonko.
> And once again, Akainu being on a similar level to other admirals is bad only in your headcanon where yonko>>admirals.
> 
> 
> ...


I've answered this already. Yonkous have received greater hype than admirals. Yonkous have consistently been given greater feats and portrayal in comparison to admirals when against similar opponents. Aokiji required a distraction to defeat Jozu meanwhile Kaidou stomped post WCI gear 4th Luffy. An amnesiac BM without haki or abilities blitz and knocks out Queen in 2 hits. BM is able to chokehold Marco in mere moments leaving him vulnerable for Perospero meanwhile Kizaru requires a distraction just to create the same opportunity for Onigumo. Fujitora with Greenbull's help was put in bandages from 4 revos that shouldn't even be as strong as the 9 scabbards as a group which Kaidou easily defeated in base. Not to mention Fujitora being sent crashing backwards by an unnamed Zoro slash back in Dresrossa or being bruised by a gear 3rd Luffy punch that he blocked. Or Kizaru fighting equally with an old, out of shape Rayleigh who didn't fight in years.


Kirin Thunderclap said:


> No it doesn't? If it did and mother caramel is saying she could be an Admiral or FA without a DF, why isn't she a god tier? She reached her potential and has a DF.
> 
> A DF is just another path to reaching your potential. It makes perfect sense.


So BB's potential didn't change after getting 2 DFs? Why even get a DF I guess he could've just trained harder. A DF doesn't have to take you from top tier to god tier but it does help.


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## TheWiggian (Apr 12, 2021)

The Yonko coin is dropping in value by the day. Kaido is only a few chapters away from being slain. Big Mom is not relevant enough to even getting focus and Shanks about to make BB a PK candidate.

I wonder who else is out there who will be the final opponent of the grand war?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Yumi Zoro (Apr 12, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> The Yonko coin is dropping in value by the day. Kaido is only a few chapters away from being slain. Big Mom is not relevant enough to even getting focus and Shanks about to make BB a PK candidate.
> 
> I wonder who else is out there who will be the final opponent of the grand war?



-Yonko coin is dropping at an alarming rate 

-Amiral coin is doing fine

-Mihawk coin is grewing very fast.

-Imu coin keep rising nonstop.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Ezekjuninor (Apr 12, 2021)

Mikasa said:


> -Mihawk coin is grewing very fast.


Why, did Vista get some new feats?

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 1


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## Yumi Zoro (Apr 12, 2021)

Ezekjuninor said:


> Why, did Vista get some new feats?



The Wano arc and Samourai are just more hype for Mihawk.

His boy Zoro while weakened can scare Kaido, a Yonko. Stopped two Yonko Combo attack monetarily.

Oden was close to kill him,

Ryuma the sword God killed a Dragon and is the only one know to pocess a black blades beside Mihawk.

Imagine if Mihawk was at Wano, the war will be already over.

He cut Kaido in half first, then process to negg Linlin.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## KBD (Apr 12, 2021)

Ezekjuninor said:


> Why, did Vista get some new feats?


This. 

Saying that Mihawk must be like this and that because of what Zoro does instead of his own performance is very silly. 

Its kind of like saying, wow, I wonder how strong this guys coach is when this guy is so good. In reality the coach is probably fat and in his late 40s.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Yumi Zoro (Apr 12, 2021)

KBD said:


> This.
> 
> Saying that Mihawk must be like this and that because of what Zoro does instead of his own performance is very silly.
> 
> Its kind of like saying, wow, I wonder how strong this guys coach is when this guy is so good. In reality the coach is probably fat and in his late 40s.



There is no anti feat for Mihawk.

He was just that Good.

Vista was a powerful Swordman too.

He will beat Dragon Kaido at the very least.

But hybrid Kaido beat him.

So will a half serious Mihawk.

Reactions: Like 1


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## KBD (Apr 12, 2021)

Mikasa said:


> There is no anti feat for Mihawk.
> 
> He was just that Good.
> 
> ...



Lets post pone this fight  plz Vista  - Mihawk


Oh shit, its Shanks, Im getting out of here! - Mihawk

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Nikseng (Apr 12, 2021)

KBD said:


> Lets post pone this fight  plz Vista  - Mihawk
> 
> 
> Oh shit, its Shanks, Im getting out of here! - Mihawk

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Apr 12, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> Shanks


when did shanks say this chapter? interesting


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## Shunsuiju (Apr 12, 2021)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> Please send me a quote, where I said any of that? I'll wait. Admiral= Yonko, doesn't seem sad to me that Akainu is marginally stronger than some of the current admirals. It is only sad in your head cannon where admirals are considerably below the Yonko.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are you genuinely in the opinion that Kizaru will be as strong as Akainu EOS?

Admiral fan, Yonko fan, whatever. This is just dumb


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## Shunsuiju (Apr 12, 2021)

I think the difference between Kizaru and Akainu EOS would be as big as the one between Beckman and Shanks. That's why Marco and Beckman were portrayed as equal to him. There is a hierarchy to this, and not every Admiral gets to be at the top


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Apr 12, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Are you genuinely in the opinion that Kizaru will be as strong as Akainu EOS?
> 
> Admiral fan, Yonko fan, whatever. This is just dumb



Question. Where do you think EoS Teach will be in relation to the other Yonko?


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## Shunsuiju (Apr 12, 2021)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> Question. Where do you think EoS Teach will be in relation to the other Yonko?


That's not a good comparison because I don't think Luffy vs BB will be a conventional fight like Kaido vs Luffy, Mihawk vs Zoro or Luffy vs Akainu.

I have Akainu = Mihawk EOS. Dragon, Shanks, Big Mom, Kaido all fit into that category. Kizaru, Fujitora and Greenbull fall out.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Apr 12, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> that Kizaru will be as strong as Akainu EOS?
> 
> Admiral fan, Yonko fan, whatever. This is just dumb


Aokiji the weakest of the bunch went 9 days equal with Akainu you can expect someone stronger then him like kizaru go equal with him also but of course you try to separate sakazuki from the admirals you're desperate but don't worry Kuzan/Kizaru all low-diff the strongest pirate


Shunsuiju said:


> I have Akainu = Mihawk EOS. Dragon, Shanks, Big Mom, Kaido all fit into that category


So headcannon for Mihawk whos nowhere near sakazuki level


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