# Pre Rinnegan Obito vs Itachi



## GodEmperorofMankind307 (Oct 23, 2013)

(lets see how good i am at this)
conditions: this is obito during kage summit and itachi as he was in part 1
knowledge: manga
distance: 40m
mindset: in character


----------



## Ersa (Oct 23, 2013)

The only Itachi that can comfortably defeat Pre-Rinnegan Tobi is Edo Itachi I feel. 

Healthy Itachi stands a very good chance but I'd favour Tobi more. In terms of intellect both fighters are very tactical, possess amazing insight so that won't be a factor here. The problem here is Itachi will wear out quickly if he uses MS and his regular ninjutsu won't be enough to put Tobi down. Meanwhile Tobi can force Itachi to use Susanoo by regular pestering him with Bakufuu Ranbu and Yasaka-level massive kunai. For Itachi to defeat Tobi he needs to trap him within Izanami or warp a clone into his dimension. Without MS spam and unlimited clones that his Edo form possesses I feel Tobi will win 60/40 of the time. Kamui simply means he can avoid and force Itachi to waste stamina while he remains more or less completely fine.


----------



## Nikushimi (Oct 23, 2013)

Itachi times Amaterasu to hit Obito when he becomes tangible to attack.

Obito uses Izanagi to survive.

They continue to fight for a while until Itachi can set up Izanami.

Itachi wins.


----------



## Trojan (Oct 23, 2013)

Obito wins.

itachi already admitted that obito is stronger than him. 
Reread itachi & Sasuke's conversation.


----------



## Baroxio (Oct 23, 2013)

Pre-Rinnengan Obito is limited to Kamui Warp.

If he warps a clone, he GG's himself.

Nobody can tell when Itachi uses clones.

Itachi rapestomps this battle.

The only thing Obito is good for is running the fuck away.



Elia said:


> Obito wins.
> 
> itachi already admitted that obito is stronger than him.
> Reread itachi & Sasuke's conversation.



No he didn't. Go on, let's have this discussion again where you think people care about surpassing "empty shells" of former superstars.


----------



## P3IN (Oct 23, 2013)

He gets kamui'd, and he can't hit him nonetheless and kamui activation is faster then susanoo being activated. He gets warped. I don't see how itachi spams for five minutes straight to allow him to become tangible, and moreover he can use izanagi, itachi doesn't have sufficient stamina either way to drag the fight for too long especially if he uses susanoo.


----------



## crisler (Oct 23, 2013)

It's obviously a draw.

Tell me what Obito can do. Warp him? alright, let's assume he does. Then? Warping away someone doesn't even hurt them nor can Obito use genjutsu on Itachi like he did against the root duos. It's not like Kakashis' kamui which can just blow away your head: obitos' kamui doesn't do that so as an offensive skill it's practically useless. It just gives him good opportunity to attack, and apparently obitos' only offense is some plain katons and taijutsu which itachi can easily counter.

However...if Obito keep staying on the defense there''s not much itachi can do either. The best plan would be to use clones and when Obito warps that away, Itachi can fight from both places which would end the battle pretty rapidly. However, I don't think Obitos' foolish enough to use the same jutsu over and over against a foe like Itachi so Itachi won't get much of an opportunity either. In  one on one battle, Obito is practically immortal as long as he stays on the defence. Against Minato, minato not only had a good tool to fight but Obito was also staying on the offense. Against Kakashi/naruto, kakashi had the best and only counter while he had support from bee gai and naruto. 

Whether this is Edo Madara or Hashirama or Tobirama or Minato...if Obito keeps on the defence no one can defeat him 1vs1. And frankly, I don't think pre-rinnegan obito would go for an offense against dangerous one like Itachi when the battle isn't worth risking fatal injuries. 


Any one with good defence against MS genjutsu can pull a draw against pre-rinnegan obito. Winning is very difficult as they would need to force Obito to attack instead of defending.


----------



## Baroxio (Oct 23, 2013)

P3IN said:


> He gets kamui'd, and he can't hit him nonetheless and kamui activation is faster then susanoo being activated. He gets warped. I don't see how itachi spams for five minutes straight to allow him to become tangible, and moreover he can use izanagi, itachi doesn't have sufficient stamina either way to drag the fight for too long especially if he uses susanoo.


A.) Kamui activation is faster than the time it takes for Lightning to fall? lol no. 

B.) Itachi can switch places with a clone faster than Perfect Sage Senses or fully matured Eternal Magenkyou Sharingan can see. Do you want to know what happens to Tobi when he Kamui'd a clone? The same thing that happens to everything else The same thing that happened when he Kamui'd Kakashi. He'll get shanked from Kamui world and be too completely inept to do anything about it.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 23, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> Itachi times Amaterasu to hit Obito when he becomes tangible to attack.
> 
> Obito uses Izanagi to survive.
> 
> ...



Pretty much.


Restrict Izanami and Obito may win if he is willing to sacrifice both eyes for Izanagi.
Otherwise, Itachi'd takes this without problems. Izanami is the perfect counter for Izanagi spammers.


----------



## P3IN (Oct 23, 2013)

> A.) Kamui activation is faster than the time it takes for Lightning to fall? lol no.



Lightning is relatavistic, which is Mach 81,000+, and no itachi doesn't have lightning speed reactions, he could've already set his defences in a manner before Kirin striked lol....

Itachi at best has Mach 143 reactions, and so does obito.




> Itachi can switch places with a clone faster than Perfect Sage Senses or fully matured Eternal Magenkyou Sharingan can see.



How does itachi attack and kill someone who can remain intangible for five while minutes in rapid succesions and not to mention izanagi, his susanoo can't be used for long periods nonetheless.



> Do you want to know what happens to Tobi when he Kamui'd a clone? The same thing that happens to everything else The same thing that happened when he Kamui'd Kakashi. He'll get shanked from Kamui world and be too completely inept to do anything about it.



And how big is the kamui world? We don't know , if he does kamui the clone he can warp himself inside the kamui dimension in whole and get rid of it, it's not like he's gonna be occupied since its one on one  

Or re kamui the clone  as soon as he finds out

The same thing surprises me he also kamui'd fu and torune and nothing happened within the kamui world


----------



## Baroxio (Oct 23, 2013)

The thing is, Obito can't beat a Kamui'd clone in Kamui world.

He lacks Kamui projectiles in Kamui World.
He lacks Kamui wind for his Katon in Kamui World.
He lacks Kamui Intangibility in Kamui World.

All he has is shit mokuton and shit Katon. Itachi's clones can use water ninjutsu and have ridiculous projectile deflection feats. Obito's Kamui-restricted arsenal is complete shit. Worse still, if Itachi's clone does only just as well as Kakashi and gets a mutually assured destruction scenario, it can just fucking explode without warning and Obito would lose another arm like he did against Konan.

Clones (especially explosive ones) > Kamui.

And Fu and Torune are shit fodder. Obito can casually deal with them pure taijutsu, genjutsu, etc. He clearly had them genjutsu'd when they came out the second time, afterall. They aren't relevant to this battle.


----------



## Trojan (Oct 23, 2013)

Baroxio said:


> No he didn't. Go on, let's have this discussion again where you think people care about surpassing "empty shells" of former superstars.



itachi said he can't surpass him except with EMS = CANON
itachi can win = FANFICTION. 

Since almost all of itachi's fans LOVE fanfiction and dreams from their own genjutsu
is no wonder to think he can win.


----------



## Nikushimi (Oct 23, 2013)

P3IN said:


> Lightning is relatavistic, which is Mach 81,000+, and no itachi doesn't have lightning speed reactions, he could've already set his defences in a manner before Kirin striked lol....
> 
> Itachi at best has Mach 143 reactions, and so does obito.



I don't even know where to begin, so I'm just going to list all of the things that are wrong with what you just said.

1. Lightning is not relativistic.

2. The velocity of a lightning bolt isn't constant; you are talking about an electrical current flooding its way through air via each path of least resistance, all of which are variable and constantly changing.

3. We don't see Susano'o activated before Kirin is set to strike.

4. Neither Itachi nor Obito can move at mach 143; in all likelihood, no one in this manga can. Fuck the OBD calcs.

5. "Mach" describes speed, not time; "mach 143 reactions" does not make any sense. If you are talking about the ability to react to a body moving at that speed, you have to qualify the distance, because a snail can react to a body moving at mach 143 if there is enough distance and it somehow possesses the capacity to be aware of the thing.

6. The author gave us an explicit window of time of 1/1,000 of a second for the lightning strike to occur. For someone who can move much faster than sound and probably has reaction time in proportion to this speed, a feat like this isn't a stretch at all. As fast as the lightning may be, it still has to travel a significant distance before it reaches Itachi; the time the lightning bolt travels shares a converse relationship with the distance it has to travel at any given speed. If you reduce the distance to about a meter, you would need a body moving at about three times the speed of sound to keep the reaction time constant. Considering the fact that Pain physically dodged FRS from an inch away, the Kirin feat isn't anything remarkable, although it's apparent that Kishimoto intended it to be so.


----------



## Nikushimi (Oct 23, 2013)

Elia said:


> itachi said he can't surpass him except with EMS = CANON
> itachi can win = FANFICTION.



It's unclear if Itachi was referring to the real Madara or Obito; just because he didn't know the difference doesn't automatically mean he was talking about the one he believed to represent the contemporary power of Madara.

And Obito himself said Itachi could've killed him if not for a "secret," so no, that's not just fan fiction. And if that secret was Izanagi, as it appeared to be, then Itachi is ideally suited to defeat Obito, being an Izanami user.



> Since almost all of itachi's fans LOVE fanfiction and dreams from their own genjutsu
> is no wonder to think he can win.



You really need to stop attacking the fans out of frustration. If you have such a problem with what they say, then actually address it.


----------



## P3IN (Oct 23, 2013)

> "Mach" describes speed, not time; "mach 143 reactions" does not make any sense. If you are talking about the ability to react to a body moving at that speed, you have to qualify the distance, because a snail can react to a body moving at mach 143 if there is enough distance and it somehow possesses the capacity to be aware of the thing.



Sir this is the battledome, I thought we go off by OBD calc's lol, well apparently, by "Mach 143 reactions" I'm meaning massively hypersonic reactions, they can react at Mach to Mach 143 speeds was what I originally meant, im sure ur clever enough to know what i meant, it's done by the scaling of Madara who's Mach 143 in "movement" for intercepting hashirama golem hand, which puts majority of the nardo characters at quanitfaibly MHS reactions. Via speed scaling.

And yes, ur right, distance, time frame, pixels and all has to be calculated that's why they're put in those fields of speed, u can't determine how fast a character moves by only seeing them, that's why scaling is done to get a good grasp on it. 

Bleach characters for instance, anyone who watches bleach will immediately assume that it's the fastest out of the HST cause the way speed is portrayed, and faster then the eye cliches, which doesn't determine speed feats. Unless they do something impressive and can be legitmatly scaled. So far the best scalable feat is ichigo outpacing byakuya's Bankai at Mach 23, scaling is done to overall to quantify speed feats to a determined extent so it comes in handy when ur debating.

I mean I can say bleach characters are faster then dbz tiers cause they move so fukin fast it seems like they're teleporting. And lol blitzes ..

But in reality, they're hypersonic+ at most.



> 4. Neither Itachi nor Obito can move at mach 143; in all likelihood, no one in this manga can. Fuck the OBD calcs.



And I thought the OBD calc's were done on NF  



> Considering the fact that Pain physically dodged FRS from an inch away,



Which got the Mach 70 scaling, as of. currently 

Well other then that I'm gonna agree with what u said mostly, I'm really tired right now 



> ightning is not relativistic.



Well I ....read...somehwere.....it.was 

Lightning speed being 10c of light speed, I.E approaching relativitic 

Well idk


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 23, 2013)

Elia said:


> itachi said he can't surpass him except with EMS = CANON
> itachi can win = FANFICTION.



scans please ?


----------



## Ƶero (Oct 23, 2013)

If Itachi couldve beaten Pre Rinnegan Obito he wouldve already done so but he didnt, so Obito wins here.
Edo Itachi on the other hand could maybe beat him.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 23, 2013)

Ƶero said:


> If Itachi couldve beaten Pre Rinnegan Obito he wouldve already done so but he didnt, so Obito wins here.
> Edo Itachi on the other hand could maybe beat him.



Beating Obito wouldn't accomplish anything other than weakening Itachi.

Obito can just run away from fights he doesn't want to take. 

Same thing happened against Minato.


----------



## Ƶero (Oct 23, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Beating Obito wouldn't accomplish anything other than weakening Itachi.
> 
> Obito can just run away from fights he doesn't want to take.
> 
> Same thing happened against Minato.



If he dealt with Obito then no one would have to deal with all the bullshit, the only logical explanation was that he couldn't so he played it safe.

Minato had Obito tagged, Minato could've warped to him whenever he wished like when he was brought back as an Edo. If it werent for a rampaging kyuubi in his village he wouldve chased him down and killed him. Minato overestimated him.


----------



## Lawrence777 (Oct 23, 2013)

Kage Bushin no jutsu is a pretty hard counter to pre rinnegan tobi. Anyone whom can use bushin will just have them warped in and subsequently Tobi's arsenal is reduced to pretty fodder katons and some kenjutsu


----------



## Kai (Oct 23, 2013)

Tobi needs to be forced to phase in the same spot where he warped the clone in order for the clone on the other side to do anything to him. That requires the precision of multiple coordinated attacks as displayed in the manga. If Tobi warps a clone and moves across the battlefield, he's moving away from the clone that is in Kamui as well.

People still don't grasp how Kamui works and think lolclone GG? Why do you think the greatest clone user in the manga couldn't do shit against him one on one?

This has got to be one of the worst misconceptions on jutsu mechanics on NF.


----------



## Lawrence777 (Oct 23, 2013)

Naruto wasn't using clone feint tactics against Obito as much as he was just simply trying to overpower him, which obviously wasn't going to be happen.

Even if Obito moves in the real world, the clone can follow dimension side because the body will flicker in and out of dimension world as fighting in the real world continues. 

I don't know if Obito moving away from the area of the fight would be IC either.


----------



## Baroxio (Oct 23, 2013)

Elia said:


> itachi said he can't surpass him except with EMS = CANON
> itachi can win = FANFICTION.
> 
> Since almost all of itachi's fans LOVE fanfiction and dreams from their own genjutsu
> is no wonder to think he can win.


Itachi never stated he needed EMS to surpass Tobi.

He said he needed EMS to surpass Uchiha Madara, the one who he refers to as being Konoha's founder, the leader and strongest of the Uchiha clan who had the EMS himself. 

Tobi is none of those things, and Itachi specifically refers to the "current Madara" (i.e. Tobi) as a "shell of his former self." I'll say it again, if you wanted to be the greatest boxing legend in the world by beating Muhammad Ali, do you mean the decrepit 85 year old of today, or the guy at the peak of his form who actually held the title?

Only an insane person would think beating an 85 year old makes them the best boxer. Only an insane person would think Itachi cares about surpassing "a shell" of Muhammad Madara.

You're insane. Get that shit checked out.


----------



## Kai (Oct 23, 2013)

Lawrence777 said:
			
		

> Naruto wasn't using clone feint tactics against Obito as much as he was just simply trying to overpower him, which obviously wasn't going to be happen.
> 
> Even if Obito moves in the real world, the clone can follow dimension side because the body will flicker in and out of dimension world as fighting in the real world continues.
> 
> I don't know if Obito moving away from the area of the fight would be IC either.


Tobi was actually destroying KCM clones in close quarters, although admittedly with the war fan. In CQC with the option to phase, Itachi's clones won't last against him even if he decides to fight them head on.

Tobi phasing in and out of the dimension is so fast that Kakashi stated the timing had to be absolutely perfect to hit him on the other side. That means the required precision of multiple coordinated attacks going on _simultaneously_.

Every time an object was warped with Kamui, the heroes (collectively) made absolutely sure Tobi phased at the exact location by launching attacks at him in the same interval. It will be impossible for Itachi to accomplish that solo without the utter flexibility of S/T like Hiraishin.


----------



## Trojan (Oct 23, 2013)

Baroxio said:


> Itachi never stated he needed EMS to surpass Tobi.
> 
> He said he needed EMS to surpass Uchiha Madara, the one who he refers to as being Konoha's founder, the leader and strongest of the Uchiha clan who had the EMS himself.
> 
> ...



Itachi believe that tobi = madara 
If this is not clear for you, then go and read his speesh to naruto in chapter 552 or 551 
I don't remember which one it was. 

also, if he can do anything, he would have done it during those 10 years with his master. (Obito) 
Itachi can't even attach him, let alone defeating him.


----------



## Lawrence777 (Oct 23, 2013)

I'd have to reread the fight. Suffice to  say I don't think the greatest clone user being incapable of countering him with the technique is valid; if Naruto specifically knew about kamui, and went at him with clones intent at countering the technique, I do think he would of been able to do so. Naruto was unsuccessful primarily because he didn't utilize him clone feints to their potential against the technique.

Tobi Phasing in and out of the dimension should still be visible even if it requires super coordination. It isn't exactly the fastest thing or on the shortest interval. Shinobi are impressive all around; Deva dodged FRS from a few feet away from him, and Kakashi was able to locate and punch Tobi in the stomach in between his kamui usage.

I'm not sure what the implication of your last point was, though if it has to do with the frame of time and difficulty then I just merge that with my second paragraph statement.


----------



## Kai (Oct 23, 2013)

Elia said:


> Itachi believe that tobi = madara
> If this is not clear for you, then go and read his speesh to naruto in chapter 552 or 551
> I don't remember which one it was.
> 
> ...


Itachi was referring to Madara's prime state that he wanted to surpass, even if he believed Tobi was Madara. Itachi envisioned Madara at the height of his power, not the current "Madara".

And correct, he would have been able to do something if he could. Tobi made sure to stay one step ahead of Itachi ever since they met each other.



			
				Lawrence777 said:
			
		

> Suffice to say I don't think the greatest clone user being incapable of countering him with the technique is valid; if Naruto specifically knew about kamui, and went at him with clones intent at countering the technique, I do think he would of been able to do so.



Kakashi: "Naruto, you understand his ability right?" 
Naruto: "I got it! *That's why I made a clone!*"

Tobi then handling Naruto's KCM clone effortlessly in close quarters. Although I'm aware it's not applicable here because the war fan isn't in his hands.




			
				Lawrence777 said:
			
		

> Tobi Phasing in and out of the dimension should still be visible even if it requires super coordination. It isn't exactly the fastest thing or on the shortest interval.


For Minato to state that "whoever strikes a split second faster will win" between their S/T jutsu, Tobi's flexibility in phasing in and out of Kamui is top tier in jutsu execution speed.


----------



## Rasengan with gatorade (Oct 23, 2013)

Obito wins they already said that he is, stronger than Itachi.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 23, 2013)

Ƶero said:


> If he dealt with Obito then no one would have to deal with all the bullshit, the only logical explanation was that he couldn't so he played it safe.



Not being able to deal with him =/= being inferior to him.

Say Itachi confronted Obito, he wouldn't be able to prevent Obito from simply running away. And that confrontation wouldn't accomplish anything but jeopardize his plans.
It wasn't practical.

Obito can run away from Madara or Hashirama, in no way that means they can't defeat him in a head on battle.



> Minato had Obito tagged, Minato could've warped to him whenever he wished like when he was brought back as an Edo. If it werent for a rampaging kyuubi in his village he wouldve chased him down and killed him. Minato overestimated him.



Minato surely didn't think chasing down and killing him was worth the risk, otherwise like you said he could have because he admitted that Tobi was more dangerous than the Kyuubi.


----------



## Santoryu (Oct 23, 2013)

No version of Itachi can defeat Pre-Rinnegan Obito in my opinion, never mind comfortably, the notion is beyond-absurd.

The problem here is that Itachi's knowledge on Obito's abilities are extremely-limited; the only one who managed to discern how Obito's main jutsu works was the best in-battle tactician in the series , Kakashi, and even then he was aided by Naruto and co. Itachi is a bright fellow so he isn't going to be treated like a rag-doll throughout the match, but the fact that Obito likes to take his time and phase through attacks, is going to put Itachi on the back foot as his Mangekyo-Sharingan abilities are highly detrimental to him to begin with, and he'd need them rather early to compete with Obito's godly ability that is  Kamui. Think Itachi's faster? I wouldn't be so sure, Obito demonstrated impressive foot work during the battle with Naruto, and Kakashi only just managed to physically overwhelm him. They should be comparable in speed I'd say.


----------



## Rocky (Oct 23, 2013)

I don't understand the clone argument. Both Naruto and Kakashi are adamant clone users/"feinters", yet they resorted to advanced Kamui tactics involving split second timing between two individuals just to get a clone in the _position_ to strike Obito. Furthermore, all the Naruto clone managed to do was remove Obito's mask, despite Naruto's clones being of a much higher caliber (Kage level) than normal.

So Itachi, by himself, will manage to accomplish what Naruto & Kakashi had to go through hell to do? I don't buy it, at least not with clones alone.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 23, 2013)

Rocky said:


> I don't understand the clone argument. Both Naruto and Kakashi are adamant clone users/"feinters", yet they resorted to advanced Kamui tactics involving split second timing between two individuals just to get a clone in the _position_ to strike Obito. Furthermore, all the Naruto clone managed to do was remove Obito's mask, despite Naruto's clones being of a much higher caliber (Kage level) than normal.


Neither can whip out clone feints as fast as Itachi, thats why they had to resort to advanced tactics, and Obito was aware what they were after @ that point because they managed to hit him twice with Kamui warp tactic.

Naruto managed to remove Obito's mask, because thats what he was after. He could have stabbed Obito in the heart but he didn't. Which is something Itachi won't hesitate to do here. 



> So Itachi, by himself, will manage to accomplish what Naruto & Kakashi had to go through hell to do? I don't buy it, at least not with clones alone.



I don't think he'll need to win by the same strategy, Izanami would be the better and easier bet here.

And aside from Kamui(which requires significant team effort) Kakashi & Co weren't well equipped to fight Tobi. Gai is CQC dependant, Naruto isn't, but he is most effective @ CQC. Kakashi is also in the same boat. They all need to go into melee range to deliver Raikiri or rasengan which Obito can easily phase out of.

Itachi has genjutsu and Amaterasu which are sublte and near instant ranged techniques that can get Obito if he lets his guard down even for a second or they be used as counter attacks to hit him when he solidifies. It won't be easy to phase out of them, like he did against Naruto's punches and Gai's kicks.

Itachi also has Susano'o which can easily keep Obito @ bay if it becomes necessary.


----------



## sanninme rikudo (Oct 23, 2013)

all itachi has to do is use totsuka the totsuka is too big for tobi to just let it pass through him so he has to teleport and he turns tangible when he teleports and takes a longer time so itachi is the winner


----------



## Rocky (Oct 23, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Neither can whip out clone feints as fast as Itachi, thats why they had to resort to advanced tactics, and Obito was aware what they were after @ that point because they managed to hit him twice with Kamui warp tactic.
> 
> Naruto managed to remove Obito's mask, because thats what he was after. He could have stabbed Obito in the heart but he didn't. Which is something Itachi won't hesitate to do here.




What do you mean by "fast clone feints?" If you mean to say that Itachi has superior handseal speed to that of Naruto and Kakashi, you would be correct. However, the latter two use other methods of feinting their opponents, as they've done multiple times in the past.

Now, even Itachi does get a clone alone with Obito, there's no reason Tobi can't swat it and pop it....or even just block the Kunai swing. An Itachi clone with a Kunai is less of a problem than a pissed Bijuu Naruto clone with a Kyuubi-Rasengan. 





> I don't think he'll need to win by the same strategy, Izanami would be the better and easier bet here.




Izanami is really only applicable here if Obito opts for Izanagi. Otherwise, it's an incredibly risky Jutsu to attempt. 



> And aside from Kamui(which requires significant team effort) Kakashi & Co weren't well equipped to fight Tobi. Gai is CQC dependant, Naruto isn't, but he is most effective @ CQC. Kakashi is also in the same boat. They all need to go into melee range to deliver Raikiri or rasengan which Obito can easily phase out of.
> 
> Itachi has genjutsu and Amaterasu which are sublte and near instant ranged techniques that can get Obito if he lets his guard down even for a second or they be used as counter attacks to hit him when he solidifies. It won't be easy to phase out of them, like he did against Naruto's punches and Gai's kicks.
> 
> Itachi also has Susano'o which can easily keep Obito @ bay if it becomes necessary.




These are all fair points, but then it's more than just "clone feint GG," which is what I originally had a problem with. Itachi can win this fight, but I doubt it'll come with anything less than very high difficulty.


----------



## Eliyua23 (Oct 23, 2013)

there's a reason they didn't fight in the manga , Itachi had nothing that could fuck with him , Obito had MS users fetch him his paper no way is he losing to one under any circumstances


----------



## Ƶero (Oct 23, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Minato surely didn't think chasing down and killing him was worth the risk, otherwise like you said he could have because he admitted that Tobi was more dangerous than the Kyuubi.



Its nothing to do with risk, Minato isn't going to chase after him to some unknown place while Kyuubi is killing villagers. Tobi was more dangerous in the long run and thats why he gave Kyuubi to Naruto so he could deal with it but if you leave hundreds of villagers to die then that would be a shitty thing to do as Hokage.


----------



## Bonly (Oct 23, 2013)

There's a reason why Obito waited until after Itachi was dead to go after Sasuke and go on with his plans, he couldn't handle the king :blinditaachi. Our King, Lord Itachi does what he does best and takes out his noob and goes on solo Madara


----------



## Trojan (Oct 23, 2013)

Bonly said:


> There's a reason why Obito waited until after Itachi was dead to go after Sasuke and go on with his plans, he couldn't handle the king :blinditaachi. Our King, Lord Itachi does what he does best and takes out his noob and goes on solo Madara



or he waited to use itachi as much as he could, and when he died he shits on his plan
and replace him with sasuke who will have MS, and thus he makes sure that he use itachi
as pawn in a perfect way?


----------



## Master Sephiroth (Oct 23, 2013)

It Obito doesn't know that Itachi has Izanami, he could be screwed big time if he uses Izanagi. Obito literally has to turtle his way to victory to win this. I think it's realistic that either could win.


----------



## Trojan (Oct 23, 2013)

Master Sephiroth said:


> It Obito doesn't know that Itachi has Izanami, he could be screwed big time if he uses Izanagi. Obito literally has to turtle his way to victory to win this. I think it's realistic that either could win.



obito is the one who taught itachi, he should now about those jutsus.


----------



## Master Sephiroth (Oct 23, 2013)

Elia said:


> obito is the one who taught itachi, he should now about those jutsus.



He didn't teach Itachi everything. Itachi went of his own volition to the Uchiha tablet and it was stated that he followed the teachings of So6P or something of that nature by Hiruzen at a very young age even before meeting Obito.


----------



## Trojan (Oct 23, 2013)

Master Sephiroth said:


> He didn't teach Itachi everything. Itachi went of his own volition to the Uchiha tablet *and it was stated that he followed the teachings of So6P or something of that nature by Hiruzen at a very young age even before meeting Obito*.



1- Obito had read the tablet as well, and he knew about the Izanagi, and Madara taught him
the forbidden jutsus of the uchiha. 

2- No such thing as "followed the teachings of So6P" has ever stated.


----------



## Ersa (Oct 23, 2013)

Elia, that's a poor argument. Obito only taught Itachi for a bit. He most likely obtained Izamami in the 8 years between his death and the Massacre.


----------



## Sadgoob (Oct 23, 2013)

The movie Kishimoto wrote has Tobi warping away when confronted by Itachi. The manga has Tobi glorying Itachi for being constantly amazing and saying he was the only one in his way.

It's pretty clear that Obito was Itachi's inferior in straight-up combat at that point. The people that conflate Itachi hyping Madara with Obito have been responded to by Baroxio.

Similarly, people give Obito credit for surviving against numerous tough foes without ever having accompished anything offensively. Kamui is ideal for stalling. If he's actually offensive, he loses limbs.

Fū, Torune, Konan, Minato, etc. He can run away or stand around intangible just fine, but if he really gets down he always gets hurt. And he clearly knew Itachi would lay the hurt on him.​


----------



## Trojan (Oct 23, 2013)

Kyokan said:


> Elia, that's a poor argument. Obito only taught Itachi for a bit. He most likely obtained Izamami in the 8 years between his death and the Massacre.



How do you know it's for a bit, when they stayed together for like 10 years?
even itachi acknowledged what obito has done to him, at least stating that obito
(who's itachi's teacher) taught him is better than saying itachi taught himself, I suppose! 

but regardless, that does not really matter. The point is obito DOES know about those jutsus.
Madara had taught him that as stated in the manga, so how come he does not know about it? 

you can reread the obito's flashback, I don't really remember which chapter it was.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 23, 2013)

Rocky said:


> What do you mean by "fast clone feints?" If you mean to say that Itachi has superior handseal speed to that of Naruto and Kakashi, you would be correct. However, the latter two use other methods of feinting their opponents, as they've done multiple times in the past.



What I am saying is, Itachi's method of clone feints rely purely on speed, and unless an outside observer is paying close attention, they are almost impossible to detect.




> Now, even Itachi does get a clone alone with Obito, there's no reason Tobi can't swat it and pop it....or even just block the Kunai swing. An Itachi clone with a Kunai is less of a problem than a pissed Bijuu Naruto clone with a Kyuubi-Rasengan.



Sure, Obito can just warp in to Kamui dimension to deal with the clone 1on1 if he realizes that he warped in a clone. That is probably the most logical thing to do.

But then, I'd say it won't be an easy fight. Obito is a pretty damn mediocre fighter without Kamui. And Itachi's clone can pretty much use anything the original can.

Also IF Itachi attacks Obito right after Obito warps the clone and Obito is forced to phase out, then he is pretty much fucked because he'll be caught off guard by the clone inside the dimension and most likely sustain a serious injury or get killed.





> Izanami is really only applicable here if Obito opts for Izanagi. Otherwise, it's an incredibly risky Jutsu to attempt.


I don't think there is any requirement such as that. 
Itachi just used it on Kabuto, who didn't even have Izanagi.
And against a 1 trick pony like Obito, I don't think Izanami will be as risky as it was against Kabuto.

Obito has a few methods of offense, it won't be hard to replicate one of those moments. 
At least all I can say that it would be easier to replicate than getting your opponent to stab you with a sword that doesn't even belong to him while hanging from the ceiling upside down.



> These are all fair points, but then it's more than just "clone feint GG," which is what I originally had a problem with. Itachi can win this fight, but I doubt it'll come with anything less than very high difficulty.



It surely isn't clone GG.
But then again, clone strategy seems legit against Obito and Itachi is a fairly good clone user.



Ƶero said:


> Its nothing to do with risk, Minato isn't going to chase after him to* some unknown place* while Kyuubi is killing villagers. Tobi was more dangerous in the long run and thats why he gave Kyuubi to Naruto so he could deal with it but if you leave hundreds of villagers to die then that would be a shitty thing to do as Hokage.



Exactly. There was a risk, since he didn't know where he was going. 
And If it was as simple as just TP'ing to Tobi and cutting his head off, then Minato should have done that easily and come back.

The point is, Obito is a tough friend to kill because is too evasive and has advanced escape mechanisms.
So If you fail to OHKO him, then it doesn't matter if you defeat him or not, he can retreat and you'll lose your chance of killing him.


----------



## DCI Kurusu (Oct 24, 2013)

Guys, how do you think Obito immobilized Danzo's guards? I'm pretty sure that as soon as somebody enters the Kamui dimension, they're suppressed somehow. Otherwise, how in the hell did he turn them into sacks of meat? Especially w/out Kamui, which I assume you can't use while within the dimension itself. When you consider how deadly the Torune + Yamanaka combination is, it makes you wonder..


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 24, 2013)

DCI Kurusu said:


> Guys, how do you think Obito immobilized Danzo's guards*? I'm pretty sure that as soon as somebody enters the Kamui dimension, they're suppressed somehow*. Otherwise, how in the hell did he turn them into sacks of meat? Especially w/out Kamui, which I assume you can't use while within the dimension itself. When you consider how deadly the Torune + Yamanaka combination is, it makes you wonder..



Naruto's clone and Kakashi disagree.


----------



## IchLiebe (Oct 24, 2013)

You act like Itachi just lets the clone be warped. Why would he do that? Itachi would most likely attack while the clone is being absorbed. That's if Obito doesn't know it's a clone. Itachi having handseal speed Obito can't keep up with LOLOLOLOLOL. Then there's the thing where Itachi would disperse the most likely crow clone or make the bunshin explode. So the clone thing is really a one in a million situation.

Izanami is likely something Obito knows about. He knows about Uchiha jutsu (knowing Izanagi and using it, using Uchiha barrier, knew the Uchiha jutsu to enter the tablet place, etc) so he would know what to do against. Again one in a million situation that Itachi even uses it.

Look at the people who've touched Obito. Minato who can teleport. Torune who has microscopic bugs that attack on touch (Obito has to touch to Kamui). Naruto with Kakashi's help using Kamui. Those where special cases. Itachi has nothing of the sort and will die.


----------



## Garcher (Oct 24, 2013)

This


manga feats gg.

the great Itachi-sama, King of Gods, solos this


----------



## IchLiebe (Oct 24, 2013)

Itachi the Best said:


> This
> 
> 
> manga feats gg.
> ...



You talk about soloing yet don't know what feats are. So sad. That's a statement. Like how amaterasu is as hot as the sun. It's not a feat, not even close.


----------



## Doge (Oct 24, 2013)

Itachi the Best said:


> This
> 
> 
> manga feats gg.
> ...



This only proves he didn't provide Itachi with means of killing him.  If he was indeed able to kill Obito, he would have no reason not to do it.


----------



## IchLiebe (Oct 24, 2013)

kresh said:


> This only proves he didn't provide Itachi with means of killing him.  If he was indeed able to kill Obito, he would have no reason not to do it.



Not to mention the OP states manga knowledge which means that scan is useless here LOL.


----------

