# Official Jinbei vs. Doflamingo Thread



## Shanks (Jul 2, 2021)

You know it needs to happen. Let's go  

Location: Rooftop

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Mihawk (Jul 2, 2021)

OP is biased, thus the thread’s agenda is questionable  

Doflamingo wins of course, and likely destroys after prison gains comeback.

Reactions: Funny 4 | Winner 1


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## Strobacaxi (Jul 2, 2021)

Jimbei

Are we really comparing DD "Wtf just happened why am I on the side of the island" from G4 to Jimbei "He's actually blocking Napoleon?!?!?!?!?!?!?" from BM?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Sir Curlyhat (Jul 2, 2021)

_Doffy.

I'd put Doffy either equal to or just bellow YC3, and Jimbe between Doffy and Yc4._

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Shanks (Jul 2, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> and likely destroys after prison gains comeback.


Well yeah, prison gain Dofy is Youkou level

Reactions: Funny 1 | Friendly 1


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## Ren. (Jul 2, 2021)

Shanks said:


> You know it needs to happen. Let's go
> 
> Location: Rooftop


Is DD even J-Man level?



Strobacaxi said:


> Jimbei
> 
> Are we really comparing DD "Wtf just happened why am I on the side of the island" from G4 to Jimbei "He's actually blocking Napoleon?!?!?!?!?!?!?" from BM?


This shit won't die eve after Franky is close to YC1.

DD was the gap between lowest YCs and top YC for Luffy.

Cracker was a solid YC for Luffy.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shanks (Jul 2, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> OP is biased, thus the thread’s agenda is questionable


BTW, remember many years ago people only put Jimbie in the water at Dofy level and Jimbie is VA level?

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Ren. (Jul 2, 2021)

Shanks said:


> BTW, remember many years ago people only put Jimbie in the water at Dofy level and Jimbie is VA level?


 
Remember when DD was above Kata

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Sir Curlyhat (Jul 2, 2021)

_Jimbe really has no answer to Doffys Awakening unless we make them fight in the ocean or something._

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Shanks (Jul 2, 2021)

Ren. said:


> Remember when DD was above Kata


DF is 100% above Kata. In maniless that is. And prison gain DD gonna make Croc have an organism.


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## Strobacaxi (Jul 2, 2021)

Sir Curlyhat said:


> _Jimbe really has no answer to Doffys Awakening unless we make them fight in the ocean or something._


Based on this chapter, he can probably just tank it, or dodge it.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Shanks (Jul 2, 2021)

Sir Curlyhat said:


> _Jimbe really has no answer to Doffys Awakening unless we make them fight in the ocean or something._


Jimbie turns drops of water into bullets, piercing those strings

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Ren. (Jul 2, 2021)

Shanks said:


> DF is 100% above Kata. In maniless that is. And prison gain DD gonna make Croc have an organism.


Neah Kata is so manly that the ground never reaches his back.


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## Shanks (Jul 2, 2021)

Ren. said:


> Neah Kata is so manly that the ground never reaches his back.


Real men ain't afraid to get dirty

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Gianfi (Jul 2, 2021)

Jimbe extreme diff

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sir Curlyhat (Jul 2, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Based on this chapter, he can probably just tank it, or dodge it.





Shanks said:


> Jimbie turns drops of water into bullets, piercing those strings



_I mean Doffy turned a whole city into strings.

Lets say he can doge a good number of attacks from every possible angle, deflect some with water, and even tank some with Haki.

Doffy just flies around and spams it, and its only a matter of time until Jimbe slips or runs out Haki trying to sustain FBH._


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## Shanks (Jul 2, 2021)

Sir Curlyhat said:


> _I mean Doffy turned a whole city into strings.
> 
> Lets say he can doge a good number of attacks from every possible angle, deflect some with water, and even tank some with Haki.
> 
> Doffy just flies around and spams it, and its only a matter of time until Jimbe slips or runs out Haki trying to sustain FBH._


Or Jimbie overcomes the first lot of string and immediately counter with a punch to his face, sending him all the way to Udon?


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## Strobacaxi (Jul 2, 2021)

Sir Curlyhat said:


> Doffy just flies around and spams it, and its only a matter of time until Jimbe slips or runs out Haki trying to sustain FBH.


Ah yes, the old "Fly and attack from a distance while the opponent stands still and doesn't try to counter attack"



I think he'll be fine

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Ren. (Jul 2, 2021)

Sir Curlyhat said:


> _I mean Doffy turned a whole city into strings.
> 
> Lets say he can doge a good number of attacks from every possible angle, deflect some with water, and even tank some with Haki.
> 
> Doffy just flies around and spams it, and its only a matter of time until Jimbe slips or runs out Haki trying to sustain FBH._


DD bararely damaged round 2 base Luffy's Haki COA abdoment with awakening.

JImbe eats that shit without COA.

DD's attack don't scratch J-man.


Also WW was FA, and Jimbe used Soru to dodge with fast attacks:


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## Sir Curlyhat (Jul 2, 2021)

Shanks said:


> Or Jimbie overcomes the first lot of string and immediately counter with a punch to his face, sending him all the way to Udon?



_Are you locking them in an enclosed space to force Doffy into close quarters ?_


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## Shanks (Jul 2, 2021)

Sir Curlyhat said:


> _Are you locking them in an enclosed space to force Doffy into close quarters ?_


Jimbie is fast enough to catch Dofy, even if he's in the air.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Ren. (Jul 2, 2021)

Sir Curlyhat said:


> _Are you locking them in an enclosed space to force Doffy into close quarters ?_


DD's walls of strings were done by a head but from Luffy.


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## Sir Curlyhat (Jul 2, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Ah yes, the old "Fly and attack from a distance while the opponent stands still and doesn't try to counter attack"
> 
> 
> 
> I think he'll be fine



_Punching a 5yo brain giant who got tricked into inflating himself is evidence of Jimbes ability to force Doffy to face him in close range combat ?  _


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## Ren. (Jul 2, 2021)

Sir Curlyhat said:


> _Punching a 5yo brain giant who got trickedninto inflating himself is evidence of Jimbes ability to force Doffy to face him in close range combat ?  _


But why would Jimbe want to fight him in the air? Jimbe is not stupid, re-read Kata vs Luffy whe he helped Luffy with the tea.

He can go next to a river, If DD wants to defeat him he has to catch Jimbe.


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## Amol (Jul 2, 2021)

Jinbe wins with lower end of high diff.

I now put Jinbe around YC3 level.

I don't put DD around YC3 level. I consider DD one of the most wanked character around here. All I ever hear is buzz words in DD threads (mah versatility).

DD is YC4 level. Maybe strongest YC4 ever.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3 | Disagree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Strobacaxi (Jul 2, 2021)

Sir Curlyhat said:


> _Punching a 5yo brain giant who got tricked into inflating himself is evidence of Jimbes ability to force Doffy to face him in close range combat ?  _


Having an attack that can cause that level of AoE damage means he can most likely handle large scale awakening attacks

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sir Curlyhat (Jul 2, 2021)

Ren. said:


> But why would Jimbe want to fight him in the air?
> 
> He can go next to a river, If DD wants to defeat him he has to catch Jimbe.


 
_We can take it one step a time.

So you concede that with no body of water around Jimbe stands no chance ?_


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## Tenma (Jul 2, 2021)

Jinbe has Dressrossa G4-level strength, speed and toughness without the stamina drawbacks (in fact, with an obscene amount of stamina). He wins eventually.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Ren. (Jul 2, 2021)

Sir Curlyhat said:


> _We can take it one step a time.
> 
> So you concede that with no body of water around Jimbe stands no chance ?_


No, I am saying they can fight on a neutral land with no buildings to help DD.

Why would I give DD help so he can stall as he did with G4?

Even if he stalls for time his AP is shit vs that kind of defense and Jimbe is a stamina monster as you can see in ID+ MF.:


Tenma said:


> He wins eventually.


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## Sir Curlyhat (Jul 2, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Having an attack that can cause that level of AoE damage means he can most likely handle large scale awakening attacks


_
Remember that its the attack that served as set up for FI Sanji to land the proper finishing move._


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## Sir Curlyhat (Jul 2, 2021)

Ren. said:


> No, I am asking they can fight on a neutral land with no buildings to help DD.
> 
> Why would I give DD help so he can stall as he did with G4?
> 
> Even if he stalls for time his AP is shit vs that kind of defense and Jimbe is a stamina monster as you can see in ID+ MF.



_Doffy turns the ground into strings as well so you really just have to make it so that they fight into a seastone arena or something, or ban Doffys awakening._

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Jul 2, 2021)

Sir Curlyhat said:


> _Doffy turns the ground into strings as well so you really just have to make it so that they fight into a seastone arena or somethibg, or ban Doffys awakening._


Tell me when did he turn the ground into strings and if he did was it the same quantity of strings or let's say this is a desert or a green land?

That is an what if.

And I answered even to that, his AP with awakening still doesn't do much to Jimbe and if he wants to do a hit and run as he tried with G4, Jimbe can go next to a River and finish him off. Again J-Man is a tactitioner fighter see him vs Moria and Zombies or vs Kata with Luffy.


And his awakening does not work against Jimbe's shockwaves attacks so no defense like he tried vs G4.


DD is out gunned by Jimbe's AP, stamina and defense.


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## Strobacaxi (Jul 2, 2021)

Sir Curlyhat said:


> _Remember that its the attack that served as set up for FI Sanji to land the proper finishing move._


Remember that he has stronger attacks that are also large AoE

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## TheOmega (Jul 2, 2021)

I remember tellin cats last week Jinbei would grab DD and just bust his shit that's basically what we saw this week lol

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 6


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## Sir Curlyhat (Jul 2, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Remember that he has stronger attacks that are also large AoE



_Thats exactly the same move with original name in one image and the english translation in the other  _

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Informative 1


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## TheOmega (Jul 2, 2021)

Jinbei gonna bang on son



TheOmega said:


> Jimbei would clap the fuck outta Doffly's cheeks lol
> 
> If he grabs him and starts hittin him or jumps in the water DD is fuckin done





TheOmega said:


> WW is DD level





TheOmega said:


> Never in his life. Jinbei's Haki is too strong


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## Turrin (Jul 2, 2021)

Jinbei seems to have mastery of Advanced CoA and potentially the basis of utilizing CoC with it.  Given this he would probably beat Doflamingo unless Doffy Parasite Hax’d him like Jozu.

I honestly think people are still underrating Jinbei saying he is only YC3, he is likely YC1 when considering his Haki abilities allowed him to demolish WW even far away from the Water. Now think about his abilities with a more reasonable water source. I really doubt Cracker or Jack beats him. We’ll see with Queen and maybe Smoothie though


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## TheOmega (Jul 2, 2021)

Turrin said:


> Jinbei seems to have mastery of Advanced CoA and potentially the basis of utilizing CoC with it.  Given this he would probably beat Doflamingo unless Doffy Parasite Hax’d him like Jozu.
> 
> I honestly think people are still underrating Jinbei saying he is only YC3, he is likely YC1 when considering his Haki abilities allowed him to demolish WW even far away from the Water. Now think about his abilities with a more reasonable water source. I really doubt Cracker or Jack beats him. We’ll see with Queen and maybe Smoothie though



Jinbei's YC2 ish like Acekun


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## Tenma (Jul 2, 2021)

'He flies away and spams weak-shit ranged attacks' is sort of the graveyard of arguments when Jinbe has proven himself superior to DD in almost every metric

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 2


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## Ren. (Jul 2, 2021)

Shanks said:


> You know it needs to happen. Let's go
> 
> Location: Rooftop


Btw thanks for helping the J-movement.

I could not start a DD vs J-man as @Mihawk  has his eyes on me and there are a lot of DD fans that have me on their hit lists since 2019

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Turrin (Jul 2, 2021)

TheOmega said:


> Jinbei's YC2 ish like Acekun


I’ll reserve judgment on this until we actually see a YC2 fight all out and how close they are to YC1


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## TheOmega (Jul 2, 2021)

Turrin said:


> I’ll reserve judgment on this until we actually see a YC2 fight all out and how close they are to YC1


They're close enough to hold a good one to them but not so good that they're beyond a YC3


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## Turrin (Jul 2, 2021)

TheOmega said:


> They're close enough to hold a good one to them but not so good that they're beyond a YC3


No way of knowing that. I will wait to see how they perform rather then going with the ideas of Tier specialists in the OL who are always wrong about Power levels


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## TheOmega (Jul 2, 2021)

Turrin said:


> No way of knowing that. I will wait to see how they perform rather then going with the ideas of Tier specialists in the OL who are always wrong about Power levels


Stop talkin about yourself Turrin, I'm over here lol

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Strobacaxi (Jul 2, 2021)

Sir Curlyhat said:


> _Thats exactly the same move with original name in one image and the english translation in the other  _


Really? didn't know that lol

Just gives me more reason, he can use an attack strong enough to push back BM on a AoE scale large enough to cover the whole super-gigantified body of a super giant.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Turrin (Jul 2, 2021)

TheOmega said:


> Stop talkin about yourself Turrin, I'm over here lol


So far you and the OL Tier specialist are wrong every time and I’m always right (Kidd, Law, Zoro, Jinbei all wins for me), so whatever you want to think kiddo.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## forkandspoon (Jul 2, 2021)

Doflamingo's biggest problem is he plateaued himself by never challenging a Yonko... even during the war he never went after an aging dying WB. He has the haki and the DF to be top tier... but he lacks a strong will. He's the top of the mid tier warlords... Mihawk, Boa, Jinbei, blackbeard are the top tier warlords.


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## Ichigo (Jul 2, 2021)

Jinbei trashes DD... at worst mid-dif.


Why is this even questioned?


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## TheOmega (Jul 2, 2021)

Turrin said:


> So far you and the OL Tier specialist are wrong every time and I’m always right (Kidd, Law, Zoro, Jinbei all wins for me), so whatever you want to think kiddo.



So tell me again oh wise one, when exactly does Luffy Blueno Big Mom?

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Turrin (Jul 2, 2021)

TheOmega said:


> So tell me again oh wise one, when exactly does Luffy Blueno Big Mom?


When Luffy reaches closer to his peak this arc and she gets done being blueno’d by characters weaker then Luffy:

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Ludi (Jul 2, 2021)

Why does it feel like the people dehyping Jimbei are Sanji fans? Jimbei on land is solid YC3 at minimum. I'd say Jimbei wins.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 2


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## Mariko (Jul 2, 2021)

"Fishcage!"

/Jinbei.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Creative 1


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## Lord Stark (Jul 2, 2021)

Doflamingo of course. I'd still give any YC the nod over Jinbei.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## MartyMcFly1 (Jul 2, 2021)

Purely attitude wise I can’t imagine Jinbei losing to a guy like Doflamingo. The way he bosses up on Big Mom multiple times and is fearless when facing Yonkou and admirals alike. I think Doflamingo would get exposed.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## TheNirou (Jul 2, 2021)

Jinbei wins arond high diff. DD can be annonying to deal with his hax but Jinbei has far better strength, durability and stamina.

I have Doffy around low YC3 and Jinbei around high YC3/low YC2

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Captain Altintop (Jul 2, 2021)

Jimbei should win with *high *(_mid to low_) difficulty by now. 
He was able to beat Who's Who with *high *(_lowest_) or *mid *(_highest_) difficulty.

Jimbei > Jack >/~ Cracker >/~ Doffy >/~ Who's Who

Reactions: GODA 1


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## Breadman (Jul 2, 2021)

DD is an overrated and wanked character. Meanwhile Jinbei is easily the most slept on character on this forum for no reason. 

Luffy in G4 had an easy time beating DD, yet struggled even with Nami's help to beat Cracker. Meanwhile I can totally see Jinbei as a YC3 and beating Cracker.

Jinbei solos.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 6 | Winner 1


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## icyBankai (Jul 2, 2021)

DD is so last decade man. This pussboi almost flooded dressrosa with his sweat when Law brought up Kaido. Kaido was ultimately disappointed and declared Doffy too weak 

Meanwhile Winbei gave BM the business and his balls are heavier than Doffy and his family combined (except for superstud Senor Pink) 

But for real though it would be a good match ending with Jinbei possibly breaking Doffys face inwards with his ultimate

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Yumi Zoro (Jul 2, 2021)

Jimbei high diff.


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## Ren. (Jul 2, 2021)

redboy776 said:


> Jimbei high diff.


That is Wimbei for you.

Reactions: GODA 1


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## LaniDani (Jul 2, 2021)

Doffy.F6 is clearly not at the shichibukai level.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Lord Melkor (Jul 2, 2021)

I would say Doflamingo high difficulty if they fight on land but Jimbei wins with access to water.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mihawk (Jul 2, 2021)

Shanks said:


> BTW, remember many years ago people only put Jimbie in the water at Dofy level and Jimbie is VA level?


They were right.


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## convict (Jul 2, 2021)

Prison gains Doffy > current Jinbei >= Dressrosa Doffy > Pre-skip Jinbei

He beats Dressrosa Doffy extreme diff due to his toughness.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## El Hit (Jul 2, 2021)

People forget gamma knife every time or downplay it, I need stronger attacks from Jinbei to see if he is > doffy. Doffy is a tank.

Reactions: Agree 4 | Winner 1


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## Breadman (Jul 2, 2021)

Prison Gains Doffy this, Prison Gains Doffy that, bitch, he's STILL LOCKED UP IN A CELL AND CAN'T MOVE BECAUSE THEY CHAINED UP EACH OF HIS LIMBS SEPARATELY. WHAT TRAINING IS HE GOING TO GET?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## LightningForce (Jul 2, 2021)

Jinbei’s defensive feats in WCI shat all over Doffy’s portrayal. Tanking Napoleon >>>>> anything Doffy can dish out. Superior Haki feats as well.

Jinbei will fuck Doffy up good. Mid-diff just like WW.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Vengarl (Jul 2, 2021)

Doffy has a versatile DF, the only advantage Jinbei has is probably better CoA and obviously underwater combat. I'd like to see a battle where Jinbei is in the sea and Dofla is in the air and both are throwing attacks at each other.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sablés (Jul 2, 2021)

Jinbei at sea
On land, Jinbei has nothing to counter parasite. He has nothing to blow past awakening strings, and his fighting style is too one-dimensional, whereas DD can attack from anywhere. Jinbei can block with haki and his haki is probably stronger, but that's just wasting energy in the end.

DD is a step above Jinbei in ability. Only way I'd see him losing is if DD was dumb enough to enter CQC, then Jinbei could reasonably snap his neck.

Reactions: Like 3 | Winner 1


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## TheOmega (Jul 2, 2021)

Breadman said:


> DD is an overrated and wanked character. Meanwhile Jinbei is easily the most slept on character on this forum for no reason.
> 
> Luffy in G4 had an easy time beating DD, yet struggled even with Nami's help to beat Cracker. Meanwhile I can totally see Jinbei as a YC3 and beating Cracker.
> 
> Jinbei solos.





icyBankai said:


> DD is so last decade man. This pussboi almost flooded dressrosa with his sweat when Law brought up Kaido. Kaido was ultimately disappointed and declared Doffy too weak
> 
> Meanwhile Winbei gave BM the business and his balls are heavier than Doffy and his family combined (except for superstud Senor Pink)
> 
> But for real though it would be a good match ending with Jinbei possibly breaking Doffys face inwards with his ultimate



DD's the young and successful douche and Winbei's the old uncle with Dem Paws

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheOmega (Jul 2, 2021)

Sablés said:


> Jinbei at sea
> On land, Jinbei has nothing to counter parasite. He has nothing to blow past awakening strings, and his fighting style is too one-dimensional, whereas DD can attack from anywhere. Jinbei can block with haki and his haki is probably stronger, but that's just wasting energy in the end.
> 
> DD is a step above Jinbei in ability. Only way I'd see him losing is if DD was dumb enough to enter CQC, then Jinbei could reasonably snap his neck.


All fun and games til Winbei manipulates the water in the strings and throws them bad boys back at DD


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## YellowCosmos (Jul 2, 2021)

This is a bad match-up for Jimbei, imo. Doffy's range and versatility (especially with Awakening) is difficult to answer with the arsenal of moves that we know Jimbei has available and we also don't know, for example, how far his FK-waves travel and when they start losing their effectiveness, or whether Jimbei's water bullets move fast enough to be relevant if Doffy doesn't make it a close-range fight.

I suspect that Jimbei is stronger and that he would beat him, but I just cannot visualise a plausible fight in which Jimbei wins.


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## Corax (Jul 2, 2021)

Jinbei. He is a YC2 for me. His haki is strong enough to block all of Dofla's attacks. Even Law could block some of them. Not sure what Dofla can even do here to be fair.


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## Ludi (Jul 2, 2021)

LaniDani said:


> Doffy.F6 is clearly not at the shichibukai level.


But Jimbei was already pre SH buff by default


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## Moldrew (Jul 2, 2021)

Doflamingo on land. His base is already comparable. Compare Jinbei vs Base Luffy on Fishman Island to Doflamingo vs Base Luffy on DR. 
Doflamingo blocked a Jet Gatling with just Armament Haki, blocked all of Sanji’s DJ attacks, kicked through Luffy’s Armament Haki defense with Athlete and managed to both cut him and send him flying. People underestimate him at close range.
Even still, Doflamingo has ranged attacks like Overheat, mid-range attacks like Fulbright (that pierced Law’s body completely), Bullet Threads (Jinbei just got pierced by *actual bullets*) 
Black Knights can be spammed for combos and distractions and managed to hold back Law and Luffy on multiple occasions.
Doflamingo gives him a fight at any range. Awakening makes it easier. Jinbei’s Full body CoA should be able to guard against a lot of it, but he’d basically get worn down by a guy with way more options.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Mariko (Jul 2, 2021)

Mariko said:


> "Fishcage!"
> 
> /Jinbei.



Only 1 lol rating?

Reactions: Friendly 1 | Useful 1 | Creative 1


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## Datassassin (Jul 2, 2021)

Recency bias and people tending to be easily excitable will result in claims of DD losing to any given character if said character looks good in a new chapter. At least Jinbe is a good opponent unlike Flying Six members generally, as Jinbe is surely stronger now than he was when getting genuinely hurt by FI Luffy who wasn't using Hardening. A FI Jet Stamp bruised Jinbe's arm, and what appeared to be a Jet Pistol left Jinbe's face bloody for the rest of chapter 629 into 632+633. Becoming a StrawHat = growth potential.

Jinbe getting wounded by Who's Who through Hardened skin and then seemingly intensifying the application of his COA to have WW break his finger isn't sufficient to say Jinbe withstands a continuous assault from Awakening. Certainly, Jinbe has shown a superb bodily defense, and yet he's still not Jozu (able to maintain a top-class guard without using Hardening to block everything). The belief Jinbe's capacity to keep up his defenses for _longer_ than DD can attack him is based in vapors, illusory mist.

Jinbe has nice reaction speeds and movement-speeds in _small_ bursts, though it is clear that he's not going to be outmaneuvering DD outside of the ocean depths. The physical strength DD showed in DR would allow him to engage in CQC with Jinbe, and it could become apparent that such an extended close-range battle would be needlessly more advantageous for Jinbe.

The _range_, variance, volume, and sheer hax of DD's arsenal continues to have bearing. Post-Law DD demonstrated in round 2 of G4 how he can Harden multiple giant Awakening tendrils at once, remotely (curiously the only case of such remote Hardening in the story I think, likely dealing with Awakening still "coming from" the DF user, but this is besides the point). I don't see an answer in Jinbe's toolbelt for Parasite, which a great deal of respondents are surely comfortable ignoring per the _inconvenience_ of that reality for overly hyping possibly the world's strongest fishman.

Doflamingo wins after a long fight. The insightfulness of whatever tactics DD approaches the match with would determine how injured he comes away from this. PIS being off for both characters clearly benefits DD the most.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 5 | GODA 1


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## Mihawk (Jul 2, 2021)

Datassassin said:


> *Recency bias and people tending to be easily excitable will result in claims of DD losing to any given character if said character looks good in a new chapter.* At least Jinbe is a good opponent unlike Flying Six members generally, as Jinbe is surely stronger now than he was when getting genuinely hurt by FI Luffy who wasn't using Hardening. A FI Jet Stamp bruised Jinbe's arm, and what appeared to be a Jet Pistol left Jinbe's face bloody for the rest of chapter 629 into 632+633. Becoming a StrawHat = growth potential.
> 
> Jinbe getting wounded by Who's Who through Hardened skin and then seemingly intensifying the application of his COA to have WW break his finger isn't sufficient to say Jinbe withstands a continuous assault from Awakening. Certainly, Jinbe has shown a superb bodily defense, and yet he's still not Jozu (able to maintain a top-class guard without using Hardening to block everything). The belief Jinbe's capacity to keep up his defenses for _longer_ than DD can attack him is based in vapors, illusory mist.
> 
> ...



Amen, I pity the fools.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mihawk (Jul 2, 2021)

Breadman said:


> Prison Gains Doffy this, Prison Gains Doffy that, bitch, he's STILL LOCKED UP IN A CELL AND CAN'T MOVE BECAUSE THEY CHAINED UP EACH OF HIS LIMBS SEPARATELY. WHAT TRAINING IS HE GOING TO GET?


The same training program Croc had after Oda pulled it out of his ass


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## Sablés (Jul 2, 2021)

Datassassin said:


> Recency bias and people tending to be easily excitable will result in claims of DD losing to any given character if said character looks good in a new chapter.


Seriously.
It's weirdest here because  (Wano) Jinbei and WW have no scaling connection to DD in the first place.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Breadman (Jul 2, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> The same training program Croc had after Oda pulled it out of his ass



Croc was victim of being introduced way too early in the series for his position, hence the boost.

Doffy's fighting skills were introduced 600+ chapters into the story, his time has passed.


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## Sir Curlyhat (Jul 2, 2021)

_Jimbe Finisher



Finisher to defeat post Gama Knife Doffy



_

Reactions: Like 3


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## El Hit (Jul 2, 2021)

Sir Curlyhat said:


> _Jimbe Finisher
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Inb4 it was overkill. 
It was what it was needed to KO the dude because he was a freaking tank, and this fight put Luffy to sleep for days. The doffy downplaying is annoying, he would murder whos who too.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Delta Shell (Jul 2, 2021)

Jinbei now > Doffy then.

Doffy post prison might be bench though.


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## Playa4321 (Jul 2, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> The same training program Croc had after Oda pulled it out of his ass


Croco come to early in the game, because that Oda lvl up his strenght.

Jinbe haki is clearly above DR Luffy haki and same Luffy did this:


Luffy could block multiple awakenend strings with his haki, I doubt his haki was stronger then Jinbe back then.
Oda take off Jinbe for a reason from Ph and DR arc, otherwise the strawhats would be clearly stronger with him around, Ceaser would never defeat Luffy in first place with Jinbe beeing around wrecking him, same for Vergo who is weaker then WsW, he would get rekt hard.

DR only Fuji,Burgess and Doffy could fight him, rest where fodders for him.

With his adv hardening he could easily block awakening strings, but the case is more the timelimit.
You drain you haki to fast with fullbody haki, Luffy with half haki covered form can barely fight 30mins, full body haki at best hold for 10mins if you continue to use it. If not it still drain you haki faster if you use again and again FBH. 

In this case Doffy will hurt and damage Jinbe few times since he can´t cover himself always with haki.
Overall Jinbe has even without haki a very very strong durability, tank easily Gagan who cut off a beast pirate hand under the floor below.

I had Doffy above Jinbe but after this chapter im not sure much.
Power,haki and speed are the key to beat someone as Doffy and Jinbe had everything better then Doffy, not just little but by a margin.
His physical power could hold Wsw Flash Fang+Haki, Pageone send RS Sanji across the city with even Vergo couldn´t.
His haki is two stages above Doffy haki.
His Ap is also better and speedwise he is as fast as Doffy if not faster.

Jinbe has a legit chance now to beat Doffy, even land Jinbe, his portrayal was clearly beastly.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Playa4321 (Jul 2, 2021)

Sir Curlyhat said:


> _Jimbe Finisher
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Big mom finisher:



Looking far under KKG, yet would clearly one shot Doffy.

Or:


Look weaker then KGG, yet it would one shot Doffy.

DC doesn´t mean>Attack potency...
Such a haki powerfull+fishman karate attack of Jinbe, believe me a clear hit and even Doffy would be knocked out for several seconds or even minutes, that is the same guy who was on his knee because of red hawk who is<<<Jinbe new attack.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## convict (Jul 2, 2021)

If DC indicates strength than Gladius is one of the strongest characters in the manga so far outside top tiers. His DC was insane to this day.

Same with Sai.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2 | Funny 1 | Winner 2


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## Vengarl (Jul 2, 2021)

People are disrespecting Dofla just to hype up Jinbei? No on my watch. Go read 3rd part of DR again you plebs.

Reactions: Like 1 | Lewd 1


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## Chronophage (Jul 2, 2021)

Would probably still give it to Doflamingo on land, but nothing short of high diff.

Jinbei has better COA and physical strength, while Doflamingo is more versatile and has hax + Awakening.

Truth is, we've been sleeping on Jinbei because people made the wrong connection Jinbei = Ace = YC4 which may not be true. Plus he got brutalized by Akainu, but that's hardly an argument. Pretty sure Doffy wouldn't try his luck with Akainu.


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## Empathy (Jul 2, 2021)

If parasite can stop Jozu in his tracks then it will definitely stop Jinbe. Doflamingo will shred him from that point and should easily be able to outmaneuver any of his ranged attacks. People making distinctions between pre-skip Jinbe and stuff like prison-gains Doffy is just silly. “_But he blocked Napoleon once!_” He also blocked Akainu once pre-skip, which I’d argue is just as impressive. Jinbe hasn’t done any new extensive training that we know of, nor has he been in any known challenging 1v1 battles where he could grow.

He’s been a firmly established NW pirate for decades now, and there’s no real reason to assume he’s significantly grown since the time he tied with Ace. I’m sure that Jinbe will eventually surpass Doflamingo once he faces an actually challenging opponent, but Jinbe’s only joining the future-PK’s crew full time near the end-game, while the M3 has been established now for decades. Jinbe’s ceiling is locked in as Y3-Y2 range at best, and Sanji will most likely face more strong characters than he does. We had this thread about Who’s Who beating Doffy last week, and Ulti the week before.

Recency bias makes it so that every time a character displays new abilities they’re now automatically stronger than somebody that Luffy couldn’t surpass until arguably the end of the previous arc. If Kaidou had a dozen Doflamingo-level guys in his crew, he probably should’ve been PK by now.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1


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## convict (Jul 3, 2021)

Empathy said:


> *Recency bias makes it so that every time a character displays new abilities they’re now automatically stronger than somebody that Luffy couldn’t surpass until arguably the end of the previous arc.* If Kaidou had a dozen Doflamingo-level guys in his crew, he probably should’ve been PK by now.



This isn't just recency bias. Even before the fight a significant chunk believed Jinbei was at the YC3 aka Cracker/Doffy tier. This fight just cemented that thought and converted a few others who weren't sure.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## sarevokh (Jul 3, 2021)

As usual, best and most discussed topics are the "vs Doflamingo" thread,

Someone needs to do a a Doflamingo scale, how much are you on Doffy levels, 0.5 Doffy, 1.5 Doffy....

Anyways, no matter who starts the fight, Doffy will end it anyways 

Wait for MarieJoie with EOS Doffy trapped in a birdcage.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Empathy (Jul 3, 2021)

convict said:


> This isn't just recency bias. Even before the fight a significant chunk believed Jinbei was at the YC3 aka Cracker/Doffy tier. This fight just cemented that thought and converted a few others who weren't sure.



Why? Because he beat up a Franky-level guy?

Reactions: Like 1


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## T-Bag (Jul 3, 2021)

Doflamingo.

wait till he returns and show you how much his power improves with inflation. Even without inflation doffy takes it

Reactions: Like 1


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## Nikseng (Jul 3, 2021)

33 racists not voting for the fishman

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 7


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## sarevokh (Jul 3, 2021)

Nikseng said:


> 33 racists not voting for the fishman



Even with 250+ chapters since Doffy's defeat, 
even with Jimbei fighting greatly against the so called Rob Lucci-like ex-CP9 Genius and member of the 6 greatests subofficers of a Yonkou,

no one still consider that fatass blue whale to be greater than the unofficial 5th Emperor

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Great Potato (Jul 3, 2021)

I had always placed Doflamingo above Jinbe on Shichibukai rankings, but I may have to put more thought into it as Jinbe has had a lot of good showings. You can always tell Doflamingo will have one hell of a time on his hands when his supporters fall back on the _"he camps in the sky and spams ranged attacks"_ routine or especially the _"Just wait till EoS when he comes back stronger!!!" _spiel.

Doflamingo beats Jinbe out when it comes to versatility and having a multitude of options to fight with, but Jinbe has him trumped in sheer physical might and firepower. In close quarters I think Doflamingo will quickly find himself at a disadvantage, Jinbe will block his kicks, grab his leg, and judo slam him into the ground. Most of his arsenal will be insufficient in breaking through Jinbe's guard, so he will have to try being creative and hitting around it, which he has some methods of doing. None of Dofla's cutting techniques will hold a candle to Cognac, he also just ate a Rankyaku to the face nearly unphased and Who's Who's broke his own finger going for the Shigan, that's crazy resistance considering he was against a high level Yonko veteran with an Ancient Sabertooth zoan. His spider-web defenses should be ineffective against Jinbe's brick fist attacks because it's a shockwave that targets moisture in the air and body. 

Doflamingo isn't a pushover himself. His own defense that can tank Diable Jambe unscathed should hold up against Jinbe's lighter attacks, webs give him extra layers of protection against physical stuff, but I have Jinbe's stronger attacks hitting well above EG firepower which should be proven by Page One shaking off the EG to the chin while Who's Who may have just gone down to the Gargoyle Fist to the same spot. Doflamingo's mobility is good, but that wasn't a dealbreaker against Who's Who for Jinbe, as stated this chapter he is quick on his feet in short bursts and has the reactions to keep up and avoid high speed combat. 

Dofla has two aces up his sleeve with Awakening and Parasite which should both be problems for Jinbe. However, Jinbe just showed he can rock with the full body CoA, so I feel as though that should be a good defense against Parasite. That's generally the trick to defending against DF hax and I don't recall Dofla catching anybody who was fully on guard with Armament applied against it; the OG Shichibukai all seem well informed on each others abilities to the point he knew Moria's secret weakness, so he should already be expecting Dofla's iconic technique to come into play. Awakening should be a pain if Doflamingo plays it smart, because Dofla can apply a similar pressure to Who's Who without actually putting himself at risk by being in direct proximity to Jinbe and the defenses they provide are not that easy to make it past.  

I can honestly see arguments either way as far as a rooftop battle, but if they fought in an area with plenty of water where Jinbe could utilize the full extent of his abilities then I'd probably have to lean Jinbe at this stage.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1 | Winner 1 | Useful 2


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## Shunsuiju (Jul 3, 2021)

I think you always have to assume characters, especially our protagonists, are getting stronger as the story moves forward. Or at least as the opponents they face get tougher; it's only natural. For example, Luffy struggled more with Arlong than he did with Blueno, but Arlong is probably not stronger than Blueno. That's because there were a handful of arcs in between the Luffy vs Blueno and Luffy vs Arlong fights and Luffy was now facing someone like Lucci and going toe to toe with him. Same thing applies here. Jimbei might have been overall closer to say Sanji than to Doflamingo by Dressrosa, or let's say Fishman Island, but now that he's joined the crew, and we are facing Yonko and their crews, Jimbei might be as strong or even stronger than Doflamingo. Based on what he's doing to Who's Who, I would lean towards him being stronger.


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## El Hit (Jul 3, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> I think you always have to assume characters, especially our protagonists, are getting stronger as the story moves forward. Or at least as the opponents they face get tougher; it's only natural. For example, Luffy struggled more with Arlong than he did with Blueno, but Arlong is probably not stronger than Blueno. That's because there were a handful of arcs in between the Luffy vs Blueno and Luffy vs Arlong fights and Luffy was now facing someone like Lucci and going toe to toe with him. Same thing applies here. Jimbei might have been overall closer to say Sanji than to Doflamingo by Dressrosa, or let's say Fishman Island, but now that he's joined the crew, and we are facing Yonko and their crews, Jimbei might be as strong or even stronger than Doflamingo. Based on what he's doing to Who's Who, I would lean towards him being stronger.


Everybody becomes stronger, Rob Lucci is cp0, croco was stronger than arabasta. This is a obd debate so feats are the most important but I am 100% sure oda would never put those characters bellow the flying 6 or other "veterans" of yonkou crews, in his mind the shishibukai were strong enough to help with the balance against the yonkou.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Shunsuiju (Jul 3, 2021)

El Hit said:


> Everybody becomes stronger, Rob Lucci is cp0, croco was stronger than arabasta. This is a obd debate so feats are the most important but I am 100% sure oda would never put those characters bellow the flying 6 or other "veterans" of yonkou crews, in his mind the shishibukai were strong enough to help with the balance against the yonkou.


Jimbei was a Shichibukai when he tied Rookie Ace; he would have been smoked by Who's Who back then. So that's a really poor argument. Besides, there are many Warlords or former Warlords who are weaker than the F6. Buggy, Crocodile and Moria to name a few.


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## ShadoLord (Jul 3, 2021)

Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if Jinbe tanked through Doffy’s postskip weak strings attack with pure haki defense and proceed to rekt him.

doffy, how you’ve fallen from powercreep and oda changing his mind


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## Corax (Jul 4, 2021)

Zoro said:


> Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if Jinbe tanked through Doffy’s postskip weak strings attack with pure haki defense and proceed to rekt him.
> 
> doffy, how you’ve fallen from powercreep and oda changing his mind


With feats shown even Who can extreme Doffy. His bite rokushiki attack is strong and fast,also it can pierce haki (Dofla's haki is average at best). He has very fast soru,rankyakku,shigan barrage,geppo. He has strong haki+tekkai combo. All tools to reach Dofla and beat him seriously in close combat.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Playa4321 (Jul 4, 2021)

Corax said:


> With feats shown even Who can extreme Doffy. His bite rokushiki attack is strong and fast,also it can pierce haki (Dofla's haki is average at best). He has very fast soru,rankyakku,shigan barrage,geppo. He has strong haki+tekkai combo. All tools to reach Dofla and beat him seriously in close combat.



Base Doffy without awakening would lose to WsW and Land Jinbe.
However awakening Doffy should defeat WsW but im not sure with Land Jinbe after the last chapter.
I wait for more feats though, as if WsW stand up and the fight continue.
Doffy in base is at best average G2+lvl with his attack, Atletic kick, Overheat and co where not really impressive, he get matched by Law in physical power, his haki get cut by Law base sword.

A ancient zoan like WsW with stronger haki would beat him, don´t wanna even start to talk about Jinbe.
Doffy needs awakening to fight these characters back/defeat them.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chronophage (Jul 4, 2021)

Thing is, neither WW nor Jinbei have anything shown on the magnitude of Bird Cage and God Thread.

On the other hand, Doffy hasn't shown anything close to Jimbo's physical capacities. Except for blindsliding and restraining Jozu maybe... For like 5 seconds.


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## Playa4321 (Jul 4, 2021)

Kurozumi said:


> Bird Cage


Bird cage is not a combat skill, it don´t do anything to WsW or Jinbe.
God thread however is actually a strong attack.


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## Corax (Jul 4, 2021)

Kurozumi said:


> Thing is, neither WW nor Jinbei have anything shown on the magnitude of Bird Cage and God Thread.
> 
> On the other hand, Doffy hasn't shown anything close to Jimbo's physical capacities. Except for blindsliding and restraining Jozu maybe... For like 5 seconds.


God thread was dodged multiple times by Luffy. Also base Luffy took one if I am correct ( yeah he used haki to defend himself but still).

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Empathy (Jul 4, 2021)

Playa4321 said:


> Bird cage is not a combat skill, it don´t do anything to WsW or Jinbe.
> God thread however is actually a strong attack.



Fights in One Piece between strong characters have been known to last days several times, including one time with Jinbe. Bird Cage can be employed in a fight between two endurance freaks like Jinbe or Doflamingo if it really comes down to it.


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## ShadoLord (Jul 4, 2021)

Corax said:


> With feats shown even Who can extreme Doffy. His bite rokushiki attack is strong and fast,also it can pierce haki (Dofla's haki is average at best). He has very fast soru,rankyakku,shigan barrage,geppo. He has strong haki+tekkai combo. All tools to reach Dofla and beat him seriously in close combat.


nah that's reaching too far

Doffy shown better stuff than Who's who, especially the rankakyuu department.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Breadman (Jul 4, 2021)

You know peeps have run out of arguments when they gotta rely on the "w-well, just wait until eos post-impel down gains Doffy! He'll be way stronger for sure!"

As if Jinbei wasn't also in the same ranking of being a Shichibukai as Doffy and is now going to benefit from being on the SH crew and getting stronger with every arc.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Playa4321 (Jul 4, 2021)

Empathy said:


> Fights in One Piece between strong characters have been known to last days several times, including one time with Jinbe. Bird Cage can be employed in a fight between two endurance freaks like Jinbe or Doflamingo if it really comes down to it.


But Doffy need to be in center of birdcage, if he is fighting their, he can´t attack or kill Jinbe.
In that case he can´t do anything. Birdcage could kill him too, he can´t run away....


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## Dellinger (Jul 4, 2021)

Doflamino would utterly destroy any Tobbi Roppo. Dont get why people downplay him so much

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 4


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## Shunsuiju (Jul 4, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> Doflamino would utterly destroy any Tobbi Roppo. Dont get why people downplay him so much


Even Jack wouldn't utterly destroy any of the Flying Six. He didn't destroy the Dukes on Zou, and is currently being occupied by Inuarashi. Doflamingo, like the top Scabbards and top Flying Six are one step below Jack. Each of them would give each other solid fights, even if Doflamingo is slightly stronger.


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## Datassassin (Jul 4, 2021)

Playa4321 said:


> But Doffy need to be in center of birdcage


This appears optional. In the Law-flashback Birdcage, we have no indication it moved at all or contracted while DD traveled to Diez Barrels' base, then to Rosinante's position. There's also no shredded land/buildings/snow that would be indicative of Birdcage moving. Furthermore, the DR Birdcage was created by unraveling a clone (unlike the Law-flashback one, which was created from DD's palm). It's entirely sensible for DD to just move outside of the radius of his intended Birdcage before transforming a remote clone into the cage. 


Playa4321 said:


> if he is fighting their, he can´t attack or kill Jinbe.


The Birdcage used in DR shows otherwise; DD freely retains all his abilities while keeping Birdcage active _and_ contracting it if that's what you mean.


Kurozumi said:


> On the other hand, Doffy hasn't shown anything close to Jimbo's physical capacities.


The casual triple-tower destruction as a consequence of a missed roundhouse, vastly outstripping Amanedachi, and non-G4 DR Luffy never managing to overpower fresh DD are still good supports of DD's physical strength IMO. If one of Jinbe's punches missed WW and destroyed three sizable buildings, there'd have been Telegram threads specifically devoted to hyping it. The ineffectiveness of DR Sanji's strength on DD, or of DR Law's in trying to break DD's grip, are also positive indications of where Oda's head was at for DD's physical strength. Jinbe certainly grew substantially since the FI arc, but I'm not assuming he has anything near G4 force or something just for being able to overpower WW. WW and Jinbe shouldn't be able to circularly hype one another's stats.


Corax said:


> God thread was dodged multiple times by Luffy. Also base Luffy took one if I am correct ( yeah he used haki to defend himself but still).


Luffy never dodged God Thread, which was only used against King Kong Gun. Luffy dodged basic Awakened string attacks in G4, while Luffy in round 2 of the fight before activating G4 again did not dodge a single Awakening attack. What he _partially_ defended against, since he was getting bloodied and pierced, were the Hardened tendrils of Flap Thread. Said technique's tendrils were thin relative to the Hardened big ones seen in 787: 
*Spoiler*: __ 







The power of the Holy Assassin move is only known to be less than DR King Kong Gun, which can easily be said of anything Jinbe has as well (along with...most characters below the Admiral/Yonko playing field). Given its framing as DD's best offensive move within Awakening, we should at least assume the 'holy bullets' are substantially stronger than things like Overheat.


Corax said:


> Dofla's haki is average at best


DD still took a point-blank blast to the face from Baby 5's weapon, which produced an explosion that destroyed part of the building, with zero injures despite not resorting to Hardening. _(To the good traitorous sis' credit, she's not among the weaker underlings, given her showcase of apparent Hardening and fight with Sai.)_ DD brushed off a barrage of DR DJ attacks without singing any feathers or hairs, also without using Hardening. His application speed of Hardening, for Rhino Schneider, is still impressive. The total _volume_ of material Hardened by DD at once is beyond most other characters' showings except Katakuri and Luffy. If one adds up the building-tendrils' Hardened ends, you have a greater amount of total Hardened matter than Vergo's/Pica's/Jinbe's bodies, suggesting DD at least has a great reserve of haki. We know the volume of material Hardened has bearing on the difficulty of the act and determines fatigue. Post-Law DD's COA and COC clashing with Luffy's created shockwaves/black lightning over the entire DR kingdom. I don't think "average haki *at best*", aka "probably below average", is really a fair assessment for someone at this level.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 3


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## Kroczilla (Jul 4, 2021)

*sigh* this is just about the worst case of recency bias I have seen since I started posting on the OL.

It seems that Jinbei's impressive showing against WsW is the basis for this line of reasoning that he's above DD. But for real...
Are we seriously going to pretend that Doffy wouldn't rip apart WsW based on the latter's showings?

Admittedly Dressrosa happened a long ass time ago, and power inflation was bound to happen but even by the current standards, DD was an absolutely beast .

I do think that Jinbei has him beat in defensive ability but Dad's versatility is quite insane. There's also the fact that his attack power >>> WsW who actually cut through Jinbei's armament. For reference, here's what DD could do with a casual kick





Not to mention the hax that is parasite (which in case folks are forgetting, restrained Jozu) as well as awakening which I don't think Jinbei has a good answer to.

Fishman Karate is pretty strong, but I reckon hits from G4 Luffy are much stronger and Doffy was eating that shit after he had just had his organs fried + a counter shock for good measure.

I agree that we shouldn't necessarily rate attack power based on DC shown, but I dare anyone to even imply that Jinbei's technique come close to the sheer power of a KKG.

Jinbei is strong, no doubt in the YC3 category (though I am not sure he can beat any of the current YC3) but Doffy is just an awful opponent for him.



Corax said:


> Dofla's haki is average at best


Oh God 



Shunsuiju said:


> Even Jack wouldn't utterly destroy any of the Flying Six





Shunsuiju said:


> He didn't destroy the Dukes on Zou


I don't get it. How does the fact that the Dukes are strong enough to fight Jack somehow translate to the F6 not getting crushed?

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1


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## Sablés (Jul 4, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Doflamingo, like the top Scabbards and top Flying Six are one step below Jack.


You have nothing to base this on.
Just as nobody here has anything to compare DD to WW.


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## Nikseng (Jul 4, 2021)

Recency bias is the new " camping in the sky gg ".

Crazy how Doffy fans have evolved   

Jimbei fans have the race card anyway, so that's a gg right there


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## Kroczilla (Jul 4, 2021)

Sablés said:


> Just as nobody here has anything to compare DD to WW.


WsW Vs Dressrosa Law. Who wins?


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## xenos5 (Jul 4, 2021)

Sablés said:


> You have nothing to base this on.
> Just as nobody here has anything to compare DD to WW.


Well, iirc the basis of it is the statement of Big Mom sending in Cracker knowing Luffy had defeated Doflamingo.

As well as Cracker with just one biscuit soldier defeating Urouge (who had himself defeated the YC4 Snack). And him performing overall better against G4 Boundman compared to Doffy (wounding his arm with a slice when Doffy failed to do any damage to Luffy when he was in G4, and reacting well enough to still slice G4 Luffy’s cheek despite him dodging).

People then scale that to other YC3s like Jack (Personally I’m not sure how Jack compares to Cracker though, I see why people have more hype for Jack given his higher bounty and him surviving that Zunisha attack but he still needs more showings to properly place him IMO). 

As for comparing DD and Who’s Who specifically, yeah the connection is much weaker and harder to figure out.


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## Shunsuiju (Jul 4, 2021)

Kroczilla said:


> I don't get it. How does the fact that the Dukes are strong enough to fight Jack somehow translate to the F6 not getting crushed?


Because I believe the strongest Flying Six and Scabbards are equally strong.


Sablés said:


> You have nothing to base this on.
> Just as nobody here has anything to compare DD to WW.


It's pretty obvious Jack is stronger than Doflamingo.


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## Sablés (Jul 4, 2021)

Kroczilla said:


> WsW Vs Dressrosa Law. Who wins?


impossible to say, because WW only has feats against Jinbei, who in turn beat his ass when he got serious.

Arguing WW's power level beyond the general scope of the F6 will only end in circular reasoning. Personally speaking? I'd back Law.



xenos5 said:


> Well, iirc the basis of it is the statement of Big Mom sending in Cracker knowing Luffy had defeated Doflamingo.


Hardly worth mentioning.
First, Big Mom is an idiot, which automatically disqualifies anything credible from her thought process. I wouldn't think one bit otherwise that she'll make her judgements based on "Cracker drove away this one Supernova, so he can do it to another".


xenos5 said:


> . And him performing overall better against G4 Boundman compared to Doffy (wounding his arm with a slice when Doffy failed to do any damage to Luffy when he was in G4, and reacting well enough to still slice G4 Luffy’s cheek despite him dodging).


Cracker performed "better" because his defenses are stronger and suited to taking down Luffy who runs on a timer.
Cracker also uses a _sword_.
A > B > C doesn't fly.

But even I wouldn't really care about Cracker being stronger than Doflamingo. Cracker at least has great showings. Jack on the other hand, is a jobber of jurassic proportions. Literally. The most impressive thing about him is endurance. He has nothing to compare to Cracker or DD beyond this fanon that commanders are equal.



Shunsuiju said:


> It's pretty obvious Jack is stronger than Doflamingo.


If it's so obvious, you should have no trouble proving it with evidence.


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## Kroczilla (Jul 4, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Because I believe the strongest Flying Six and Scabbards are equally strong.


Based on what evidence exactly?



Sablés said:


> impossible to say, because WW only has feats against Jinbei, who in turn beat his ass when he got serious.
> 
> Arguing WW's power level beyond the general scope of the F6 will only end in circular reasoning. Personally speaking? I'd back Law.


The issue is that DR Law feats >>> those of WsW. Sure WsW only has feats against Jinbei, but based on those showings, it quite easy to conclude that he would lose to DR Law. Same DR Law who couldn't even force Doffy to use awakening after hitting him with Gamma Knife.

On that basis, Doffy most certainly would wash WsW in a fight.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Playa4321 (Jul 4, 2021)

Datassassin said:


> The Birdcage used in DR shows otherwise



I mean Doffy, he can´t kill Jinbe with Birdcage if he is in the bircage, we have this point with show to be in center with Doffy, fighting him is the best way to protect himself:


The center where Doffy stays get not effected by birdcage, in any other words, as long as Jinbe fighting Doffy, he don´t need to be worry about birdcage.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Eustathios (Jul 4, 2021)

Don't worry he'll be FM/Admiral/Mihawk/Kaido level when he returns. Them prison gains

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Playa4321 (Jul 4, 2021)

Kroczilla said:


> The issue is that DR Law feats >>> those of WsW. Sure WsW only has feats against Jinbei, but based on those showings, it quite easy to conclude that he would lose to DR Law. Same DR Law who couldn't even force Doffy to use awakening after hitting him with Gamma Knife.


Because same Law was nerfed asf, get ganged almost everytime in a 2vs1 fight.
First Fujitora+Doffy destroy him to the point where Doffy believe that he didn´t had stamina left:


We know how much stamina his df take on him, also he get beaten down by Doffy and Fujitora, he was almost at his end of power, ofc he is losing against Doffy after getting ganged by Fujitora and Doffy.
That is like if people hype the Opera brothers for defeating a hella nerfed Luffy.

And even in second fight where Law was still nerfed, he still was capable to push him to mid diff.
And then he get again ganged by Doffy+Trebol, after losing a arm yet he was still able to fight back and use GK.
The whole situation, the whole plot would be different if Law was at 100% or why you think Oda nerf him in first place?
If Doffy was capable to destroy him, why it need Fujitora to nerf him very much, why it take Trebol and Doffy together to again beat him up badly(and even then they couldn´t knock him out).

Also I doubt if awakening is really a good answer against Law, his power is based on range and long aoe attacks, close combat is the better answer against Law, he can easily cut awakening, can easily find weakeness in Doffy defense to hurt him even more as if he would fight him in close combat.

I think a all out battle between Doffy and Law would end in a high diff battle at worst.
Wsw has few aspects better then Doffy(as haki,physical power or durability, also his speed should be around same lvl).
WsW is not going to get asskicked by Doffy and at most Jinbe who is in multiple things better then Doffy.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Shunsuiju (Jul 4, 2021)

Sablés said:


> If it's so obvious, you should have no trouble proving it with evidence.


Cracker fought G4 for more than 10 hours while Doflamingo struggled to stay alive vs the form in a few minutes of fighting.

Jack should be as strong as Cracker based on his bounty, position in the story and rank in Kaido's crew.

You brought up Cracker's defense, but isn't Jack's just as impressive?


Kroczilla said:


> Based on what evidence exactly?


Not much, I admit. It's just a feeling I get from the way King hyped up WW and Saskai as significant pirates, to them angling for a position in the Calamities, and how Sasaki interacted with Denjiro, acting as if they were peers.

I must ask, what is it that leads you to believe they are definitely weaker than the Akazaya Nine?


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## Sablés (Jul 4, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Cracker


Irrelevant to Jack.


Shunsuiju said:


> Jack should be as strong as Cracker based on his bounty, position in the story and rank in Kaido's crew.


Bounty is not 1:1 strength. His position in KAIDO's crew, is similarly irrelevant to Cracker's position in BM's crew. There is nothing, anywhere that says yonko commanders are equals. The WB pirates and simple logic disprove it entirely.

So...does Jack actually have any feats of his own that don't require circular reasoning or wild assumptions?



Shunsuiju said:


> You brought up Cracker's defense, but isn't Jack's just as impressive?


Cracker's defense is nothing like Jack's.


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## Kroczilla (Jul 4, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Not much, I admit. It's just a feeling I get from the way King hyped up WW and Saskai as significant pirates, to them angling for a position in the Calamities, and how Sasaki interacted with Denjiro, acting as if they were peers.


King simply made a statement of fact. They are the next best thing in Kaido's crew after the Calamities. However based on their respective showings, the Calamities would absolutely babyshake any of them in a actual brawl.

Sasaki and Denjiro is more of a personal matter. They became friends hence obviously their interaction would be one of mutual respect.


Shunsuiju said:


> I must ask, what is it that leads you to believe they are definitely weaker than the Akazaya Nine?


The fact that they can hurt Kaido and their strongest members can match a calamity.


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## Shunsuiju (Jul 4, 2021)

Sablés said:


> Irrelevant to Jack.
> 
> Bounty is not 1:1 strength. His position in KAIDO's crew, is similarly irrelevant to Cracker's position in BM's crew. There is nothing, anywhere that says yonko commanders are equals. The WB pirates and simple logic disprove it entirely.


Bounty is an indicator of strength. So is the rank of commander in a Yonko's crew. Along with the hype Jack has recieved since he was introduced into the story.

You know that I am one of the main proponents of commanders not having to be equal.


Sablés said:


> So...does Jack actually have any feats of his own that don't require circular reasoning or wild assumptions?


Tanking Zunisha, not being bested by the Dukes after 5 days of battle, fighting the entire Mink sulong army. He has feats.


Sablés said:


> Cracker's defense is nothing like Jack's.


In style, but in effectiveness, you could say they are comparable.


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## Sablés (Jul 4, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Bounty is an indicator of strength


No. Bounty is one indicator of strength, conflated with several other categories that does not make a proper evaluation of power.


Shunsuiju said:


> So is the rank of commander in a Yonko's crew.


The rank of a commander is specific to their own crews, Not between crews.
Terms like YC3 are fanmade.


Shunsuiju said:


> Along with the hype Jack has recieved since he was introduced into the story.


You mean...jobbing every chance he got?


Shunsuiju said:


> Tanking Zunisha,


We have veeery different definitions of what tanking means.


Shunsuiju said:


> not being bested by the Dukes after 5 days of battle, fighting the entire Mink sulong army. He has feats.


Has nothing to do with DD or Cracker.


Shunsuiju said:


> In style, but in effectiveness, you could say they are comparable.


Jack relies on Zoan endurance, but can still be incapacitated.
Cracker has relatively poor endurance, but high stamina, numbers and strong shields he can remake constantly.
They are nothing alike.


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## Shunsuiju (Jul 4, 2021)

Kroczilla said:


> King simply made a statement of fact. They are the next best thing in Kaido's crew after the Calamities.


So you agree with me.


Kroczilla said:


> However based on their respective showings, the Calamities would absolutely babyshake any of them in a actual brawl.


How so? Can you prove this without using vs battles logic?


Kroczilla said:


> The fact that they can hurt Kaido


So Kiku is also stronger than WW?

Great logic.


Kroczilla said:


> and their strongest members can match a calamity.


When did they match a calamity? I remember Jack fighting both Inuarashi and Nekomamushi for 5 days. I remember Jack getting the better of Ashura Doji in a duel. I remember them needing to go into sulong form and tag team to defeat Jack.

You said it yourself, the F6 are the next best thing after the calamities, the same can be said for the Scabbards. Hence me comparing the two.


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## Lee-Sensei (Jul 4, 2021)

For now, Doflamingo.


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## Shunsuiju (Jul 4, 2021)

Sablés said:


> No. Bounty is one indicator of strength, conflated with several other categories that does not make a proper evaluation of power.


But the problem is that Jack has a 140 million higher bounty than Cracker. So him killing civilians is evened out.


Sablés said:


> The rank of a commander is specific to their own crews, Not between crews.
> Terms like YC3 are fanmade.


Do you honestly believe Jack is inferior to Cracker?


Sablés said:


> You mean...jobbing every chance he got?



*Spoiler*: __ 










Sablés said:


> We have veeery different definitions of what tanking means.


Taking the hit and being relatively unbothered.


Sablés said:


> Has nothing to do with DD or Cracker.


What does that even mean? They are his own feats, of course they have nothing to do with them.


Sablés said:


> Jack relies on Zoan endurance, but can still be incapacitated.
> Cracker has relatively poor endurance, but high stamina, numbers and strong shields he can remake constantly.
> They are nothing alike.


You keep repeating the same thing. You can have two different ways of doing something and both can be just as effective as eachother.

If Cracker's defense is a 100, Jack's is a 98 or 99.

EDIT:

At first, I wasn't that convinced either way. Now I'm sure Jimbei is and will always be stronger than Doflamingo moving forward.


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## Kroczilla (Jul 4, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> So you agree with me.


About them being far below the Calamities? Yes. Being "the next best thing" does not equate to being peers.


Shunsuiju said:


> How so? Can you prove this without using vs battles logic?



????

The is a battledome. Of course everything we post here is "Vs battle logic".



Shunsuiju said:


> So Kiku is also stronger than WW?
> 
> Great logic.


When WsW gets better feats, then he gets scaled to her as well.


Shunsuiju said:


> When did they match a calamity? I remember Jack fighting both Inuarashi and Nekomamushi for 5 days. I remember Jack getting the better of Ashura Doji in a duel. I remember them needing to go into sulong form and tag team to defeat Jack.


Yep, your memory definitely needs some work.
Inu and Neko EACH matched Jack for 12 hours. And that was only because of their rule that allowed the other 12 hours to rule Zou. They each showed that they could match Jack just fine and forced him to resort to poison gas. Heck Inu is currently taking on Jack 1v1 with no issues.
They didn't "need" to tag team Jack. They just both happen to have a grudge against him. Again, inu is currently taking on Jack 1v1.

Yeah, Jack never got the better of Doji. Not sure what manga you are reading.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Shunsuiju (Jul 4, 2021)

Kroczilla said:


> ????
> 
> The is a battledome. Of course everything we post here is "Vs battle logic".


So what do you got?


Kroczilla said:


> When WsW gets better feats, then he gets scaled to her as well.


Wait, you mean Who's Who gets scaled under Kiku for now?

I wouldn't want to know how strong you think people like Greenbull or Dragon are. They are more feat-less than WW.


Kroczilla said:


> Yep, your memory definitely needs some work.
> Inu and Neko EACH matched Jack for 12 hours. And that was only because of their rule that allowed the other 12 hours to rule Zou. They each showed that they could match Jack just fine and forced him to resort to poison gas.




This page implies that the muskateers and guardians were helping the Dueks fight Jack.

I don't think Oda was trying to portray them as equals. But who knows


Kroczilla said:


> Heck Inu is currently taking on Jack 1v1 with no issues.


An injured Jack. Up until last chapter you would be saying WW is taking on Jimbei, the "YC3 character", no problems. For all we know, Jack is getting the better of Inuarashi or hasn't gone all out yet.


Kroczilla said:


> Yeah, Jack never got the better of Doji. Not sure what manga you are reading.




-Ashura Doji catches him off guard
-They fight
-Jack gets the upperhand
-Ashura goes on the defensive

But let me get this straight, you're saying that the Scabbards are on par with Jack and a fight between them would go either way?


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## Playa4321 (Jul 4, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> -Ashura Doji catches him off guard
> -They fight
> -Jack gets the upperhand
> -Ashura goes on the defensive


-get cut by broke sword of Jack:

Reactions: Like 2


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## Kroczilla (Jul 4, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> So what do you got?


Burdens on you, bud. Already stated that the Scabbards can hurt Kaido.


Shunsuiju said:


> Wait, you mean Who's Who gets scaled under Kiku for now?


To quote your post




Shunsuiju said:


> So what do you got?





Shunsuiju said:


> I wouldn't want to know how strong you think people like Greenbull or Dragon are. They are more feat-less than WW.


Apples and Oranges. Green bull is an admiral, a rank that requires a very specific lvl of strength to attain hence the world draft. Dragon has subordinates who can give admirals a good fight.


Shunsuiju said:


> This page implies that the muskateers and guardians were helping the Dueks fight Jack.
> 
> I don't think Oda was trying to portray them as equals. But who knows


Don't care much for your interpretation of "what was implied". What we were show explicitly was Inu and the later Neko taking on Jack personally.




Shunsuiju said:


> An injured Jack. Up until last chapter you would be saying WW is taking on Jimbei, the "YC3 character", no problems. For all we know, Jack is getting the better of Inuarashi or hasn't gone all out yet



Inu is also injured and missing an entire limb. Jack was getting the better of Inu due to interference from his grifters. And even then, he couldn't pull off a win.



Shunsuiju said:


> Ashura Doji catches him off guard
> -They fight
> -Jack gets the upperhand
> -Ashura goes on the defensive



Jack got a good hit in, but Ashura was unfazed. 

Not sure how you can say Jack got caught off guard when Ashura straight up sliced through his weapon.



Shunsuiju said:


> But let me get this straight, you're saying that the Scabbards are on par with Jack and a fight between them would go either way?





Kroczilla said:


> their strongest members can match a calamity.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shunsuiju (Jul 4, 2021)

Kroczilla said:


> Burdens on you, bud. Already stated that the Scabbards can hurt Kaido.


Does having adCoA put you above everyone without it? So Sentomaru and Hyogoro are stronger than Katakuri?


Kroczilla said:


> To quote your post


Not even going to entertain this. 


Kroczilla said:


> Apples and Oranges. Green bull is an admiral, a rank that requires a very specific lvl of strength to attain hence the world draft.


And Who's Who is one of the strongest Flying Six who by your own admition are right under the calamities 


Kroczilla said:


> Dragon has subordinates who can *give admirals a good fight.*


Does he? I mean I'm not even going to dispute this point, because Sabo _is_ strong, but Dragon still has no feats.

Point is, feats are not the end all. When I brought up two featless characters, you went to their status in the world. You have to use everything including feats to determine a character's strength. For some reason, you think feats are all that's important. And that's how you can think Kiku is stronger than Who's Who... 


Kroczilla said:


> Don't care much for your interpretation of "what was implied". What we were show explicitly was Inu and the later Neko taking on Jack personally.


They all took on Jack together, Sicilian said as much. Is that better?


Kroczilla said:


> Inu is also injured and missing an entire limb. Jack was getting the better of Inu due to interference from his grifters. And even then, he couldn't pull off a win.


Inu is fine. He tied with Ashura with the one leg, and now he's added a sword to the end of it making him supposedly stronger.


Kroczilla said:


> Jack got a good hit in, but Ashura was unfazed.


"Unfazed"? 

He said the classic villain line "I can't be beat by you!" while he's clearly being beaten. If Kaido hadn't shown up, Jack would have cleaned up house.


Kroczilla said:


> Not sure how you can say Jack got caught off guard when Ashura straight up sliced through his weapon.


That's even worse.

Jack was fully aware of the attack and only got hit because his weapon was too poorly built.


"their strongest members can match a calamity."

Stop speaking in riddles. Are they equals or is Jack stronger?


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## Van Basten (Jul 4, 2021)

“Official.”


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## Shunsuiju (Jul 4, 2021)

Van Basten said:


> “Official.”


It's a heated debate, clearly.


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## MYJC (Jul 4, 2021)

DD wins. Jinbei just doesn't have an answer for his hax.


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## Kroczilla (Jul 4, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Not even going to entertain this


Concession accepted.


Shunsuiju said:


> And Who's Who is one of the strongest Flying Six who by your own admition are right under the calamities


What makes WsW one of the strongest Calamities exactly? And again, being "under the Calamities" doesn't mean he is anywhere near their ball park. I have said this over and over but for some reason this seems to escape you.



Shunsuiju said:


> Does he? I mean I'm not even going to dispute this point, because Sabo _is_ strong, but Dragon still has no feats.


Yes, but in the OPverse it is pretty much a guarantee that the leader >>> his subordinates. There is actual basis to assume that he is atleast as strong as the admirals.


Shunsuiju said:


> Point is, feats are not the end all. When I brought up two featless characters, you went to their status in the world. You have to use everything including feats to determine a character's strength. For some reason, you think feats are all that's important. And that's how you can think Kiku is stronger than Who's Who...


Again, how does WsW's status even compare? No where have I said feats are the end all, be all, but WsW doesn't have great feats to work with. I have nothing to put out him above Kiku.




Shunsuiju said:


> They all took on Jack together, Sicilian said as much. Is that better?


He didn't though. And we were explicitly shown the dukes taking on Jack 1v1. Heck your own scans show the musketeers taking on waiters. Zero evidence that they interfered with the fight between Jack and each of the dukes.


Shunsuiju said:


> Inu is fine. He tied with Ashura with the one leg, and now he's added a sword to the end of it making him supposedly stronger.


Inu is also injured. Pretty sure having your natural leg strength >>> a makeshift prosthetic sword. Also again, if he wasn't on Jack's lvl  then Jack + his grifters whom Inu was facing would have overwhelmed him but clearly that hasn't happened.


Shunsuiju said:


> He said the classic villain line "I can't be beat by you!" while he's clearly being beaten. If Kaido hadn't shown up, Jack would have cleaned up house.


Yeah, it's a good thing the opinions of a fan boy =\= facts.


Shunsuiju said:


> That's even worse.
> 
> Jack was fully aware of the attack and only got hit because his weapon was too poorly built


Yeah, this is a shit tier excuse if I ever saw one. Then again, you have made a habit of using fanon lore quite often, so I am not even surprised.


Shunsuiju said:


> their strongest members can match a calamity."
> 
> Stop speaking in riddles. Are they equals or is Jack stronger?


How is this a riddle exactly? Do you not know the strongest members of the Scabbards? Have we not seen atleast 3 of them go toe to toe with Jack?


Shunsuiju said:


> Does having adCoA put you above everyone without it? So Sentomaru and Hyogoro are stronger than Katakuri?


Sentomaru is still a relative unknown. Hyogoro was strong enough that Kaido thought him + Oden would have legit been too much to deal with so there's a good chance of that.

No, having adCOA doesn't put you above everyone without it, but WsW has a chronic case of ... Not very good feats.


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## JazzMazz (Jul 5, 2021)

Sablés said:


> So...does Jack actually have any feats of his own that don't require circular reasoning or wild assumptions?


Didn't Jack wipe out a force of nearly 200 sulong minks?


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## Corax (Jul 5, 2021)

JazzMazz said:


> Didn't Jack wipe out a force of nearly 200 sulong minks?


He had backup. But I think he fought 5 musketeers  alone.


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## JazzMazz (Jul 5, 2021)

Corax said:


> He had backup. But I think he fought 5 musketeers  alone.


I think he fought considerably more than just that. We saw him take out 8 sulong minks in a single strike.


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## Playa4321 (Jul 5, 2021)

Corax said:


> He had backup. But I think he fought 5 musketeers alone.



His backup get stomped by the Mink army, it was most like Jack who take them out, meaning over 100Sulong Minks if not more:


The backup get destroyed while Jack take the sulong army out.
Really impressive if you see how Perospero had problems with just two Minks who are weaker then strongest Musketeers.


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## Kroczilla (Jul 5, 2021)

Playa4321 said:


> Really impressive if you see how Perospero had problems with just two Minks who are weaker then strongest Musketeers.


Further proof of a large gap between the Calamities and the F6.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Playa4321 (Jul 5, 2021)

Kroczilla said:


> Further proof of a large gap between the Calamities and the F6.


It depend how Oda showcase the calamity.
I always though that the calamity getting awakening power while flyers not getting it, it would be already the first case who showing that the Calamity are above the Flyers.
If WsW is really defeated without showing awakening while Jack show it later, then yeah the gap between the weakest calamity and the strongest flyer seems be large. With meaning overall the flyers are one-two league under the Calamity.
But again it depends about WsW and Jack performance soon.


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## Empathy (Jul 5, 2021)

Playa4321 said:


> But Doffy need to be in center of birdcage, if he is fighting their, he can´t attack or kill Jinbe.
> In that case he can´t do anything. Birdcage could kill him too, he can´t run away....



Doflamingo fought Luffy all over Dressrosa. Him getting killed by his own strings that he controls is conjecture. He can start the technique using a clone if he really wants to stay outside of it. It puts a timer on the fight if Jinbe can’t put him down, and he doesn’t need to make an island-size cage, as he’s shown he can make smaller ones with shorter timers.


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## JazzMazz (Jul 5, 2021)

Empathy said:


> Doflamingo fought Luffy all over Dressrosa. Him getting killed by his own strings that he controls is conjecture. He can start the technique using a clone if he really wants to stay outside of it. It puts a timer on the fight if Jinbe can’t put him down, and he doesn’t need to make an island-size cage, as he’s shown he can make smaller ones with shorter timers.


Birdcage is a dumb technique to use in a fight because its a not a practical combat technique.

Its not offensive in nature. It turns the situation effectively into a "ring match".

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Empathy (Jul 5, 2021)

JazzMazz said:


> Birdcage is a dumb technique to use in a fight because its a not a practical combat technique.
> 
> Its not offensive in nature. It turns the situation effectively into a "ring match".



I don’t think that Doflamingo needs it to beat Jinbe, mostly because I think his awakening would present a huge problem for a strictly hand-to-hand fighter like Jinbe if they’re fighting on land and he’s turning the entire battlefield and footing into string. But to say it can have no practical application or effect on a 1on1 battle is false when it canonically did.

People just forget about it, or discount it when they say Doflamingo can’t make strong strings. It puts a timer on the fight if Jinbe can’t put Doflamingo down quickly enough. I would have my doubts that he can, considering Ace doesn’t have better durability feats than Doffy and he couldn’t put Ace down within five days. Birdcage can also fire mass parasites that Jinbe can’t break out of if he’s caught (Jozu couldn’t). People’s counterargument to parasite is that Jinbe will just block it with CoA, but his Haki will run out if he’s having to maintain a constant full-body CoA for hours. 

It has practical application in a fight. The only way Doflamingo would lose against Jinbe is if he’s dumb enough to try to beat him in a fistfight. Jinbe’s a well known martial artist and severed in the Shichibukai with Doflamingo for years; Doffy’s a smart guy, so I doubt he’d try to best him in close-quarters.


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## Elsa (Jul 5, 2021)

Land Jinbei loses extreme diff.

Near water Jinbei wins mid/high diff.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Jake CENA (Jul 5, 2021)

Doflamingo is Bobbins level

of course Jimbei would stomp

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 2


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## JazzMazz (Jul 5, 2021)

Empathy said:


> I don’t think that Doflamingo needs it to beat Jinbe, mostly because I think his awakening would present a huge problem for a strictly hand-to-hand fighter like Jinbe if they’re fighting on land and he’s turning the entire battlefield and footing into string. But to say it can have no practical application or effect on a 1on1 battle is false when it canonically did.


It didn't have any effect on a 1 on 1 fight. It had an effect on the narrative surrounding that one on one fight, but its completely useless when talking about a "versus battle" sort of scenario.


Empathy said:


> People just forget about it, or discount it when they say Doflamingo can’t make strong strings. It puts a timer on the fight if Jinbe can’t put Doflamingo down quickly enough. I would have my doubts that he can, considering Ace doesn’t have better durability feats than Doffy and he couldn’t put Ace down within five days. Birdcage can also fire mass parasites that Jinbe can’t break out of if he’s caught (Jozu couldn’t). People’s counterargument to parasite is that Jinbe will just block it with CoA, but his Haki will run out if he’s having to maintain a constant full-body CoA for hours.


Which strong characters were effected by that mass parasite in Dressrosa? Name one.

Doffy's parasite is a weird no limits thing that I don't think is generally applicable in most situations. Due to how inconsistent it is, its a terrible thing to argue about.


Empathy said:


> It has practical application in a fight. The only way Doflamingo would lose against Jinbe is if he’s dumb enough to try to beat him in a fistfight. Jinbe’s a well known martial artist and severed in the Shichibukai with Doflamingo for years; Doffy’s a smart guy, so I doubt he’d try to best him in close-quarters.


Again, I'm not arguing that Jinbei would beat Doflamingo. I think Doffy would probably dispatch Jinbei with similar difficulty to how he dispatched Law, I'm just saying that bird cage isn't a useful move in a one on one.


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## Empathy (Jul 5, 2021)

JazzMazz said:


> It didn't have any effect on a 1 on 1 fight. It had an effect on the narrative surrounding that one on one fight, but its completely useless when talking about a "versus battle" sort of scenario.



If the whole island didn’t delay it, it would’ve killed Luffy before his Haki came back. Why can’t that have an effect on a 1v1 fight?



JazzMazz said:


> Which strong characters were effected by that mass parasite in Dressrosa? Name one.
> 
> Doffy's parasite is a weird no limits thing that I don't think is generally applicable in most situations. Due to how inconsistent it is, its a terrible thing to argue about.
> 
> Again, I'm not arguing that Jinbei would beat Doflamingo. I think Doffy would probably dispatch Jinbei with similar difficulty to how he dispatched Law, I'm just saying that bird cage isn't a useful move in a one on one.



Parasite and Bird Cage are Doflamingo’s own abilities. Just because you don’t like them doesn’t mean that they wouldn’t be available to him in a battle. Doflamingo fired the parasite indiscriminately just to cause chaos, but if his only goal is to defeat Jinbe, then he can focus those attacks on just one guy. There’s no reason to assume the parasites he uses with Bird Cage are any weaker than any other ones. It’s all the same technique with no distinction ever made between them.


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## JazzMazz (Jul 5, 2021)

Empathy said:


> If the whole island didn’t delay it, it would’ve killed Luffy before his Haki came back. Why can’t that have an effect on a 1v1 fight?


I don't think that was the problem or even what Doffy was going for. Doffy was never going to use the bird cage to kill Luffy. He was merely going to flush Luffy out. The bird cage is a basically the equivalent of a cage match. He wanted to limit the amount of places Luffy could hide so he could kill him directly.



Empathy said:


> Parasite and Bird Cage are Doflamingo’s own abilities. Just because you don’t like them doesn’t mean that they wouldn’t be available to him in a battle. Doflamingo fired the parasite indiscriminately just to cause chaos, but if his only goal is to defeat Jinbe, then he can focus those attacks on just one guy. There’s no reason to assume the parasites he uses with Bird Cage are any weaker than any other ones. It’s all the same technique with no distinction ever made between them.


True, but again, this goes back to the point of Doflamingo's parasite being inconsistent as all hell.

You have Doffy trapping Sanji in the sky, but he isn't able to trap Luffy or Law in the same way. Its only when Luffy is on the verge of death that Doffy finally manages to trap him(something Luffy breaks through).

We also know that Luffy already somehow broke through Doffy's strings in order to free his hands when they were initially trapped.

Again, its a super inconsistent, and arbitrary ability.


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## Commanderbilli (Jul 5, 2021)

Turrin said:


> Jinbei seems to have mastery of Advanced CoA and potentially the basis of utilizing CoC with it.  Given this he would probably beat Doflamingo unless Doffy Parasite Hax’d him like Jozu.
> 
> I honestly think people are still underrating Jinbei saying he is only YC3, he is likely YC1 when considering his Haki abilities allowed him to demolish WW even far away from the Water. Now think about his abilities with a more reasonable water source. I really doubt Cracker or Jack beats him. We’ll see with Queen and maybe Smoothie though



YC1 vs YC4 happens nothing like Jinbei vs WW which was a middiff. Think Katakuri vs luffy or Katakuri demolishing vets like Ichiji. Most of luffy's fights with commanders outside of G4 suggest that Jinbei isn't anywhere near YC1

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Freechoice (Jul 6, 2021)

Jinbe mid diff

Doflaflingo is old news. They tangling with Yonko now.

The dude pissed his pink panties at the idea of facing Kaido.

Meanwhile God Jinbe  sending Yonko flying

Reactions: Like 1


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## Strobacaxi (Jul 6, 2021)

DD at the mere mention of Kaido coming after him:



Jimbei face to face with Big Mom threatening to kill him:




Rayleigh says Jimbei > DD

Reactions: Winner 5


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## Kroczilla (Jul 6, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> DD at the mere mention of Kaido coming after him:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Brooke and Franky also showed no fear in the face of big mom.

Inb4 the "Brooke Vs Doflamingo" threads


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## Strobacaxi (Jul 6, 2021)

Kroczilla said:


> Brooke and Franky also showed no fear in the face of big mom.
> 
> Inb4 the "Brooke Vs Doflamingo" threads


I'm gonna yoink that


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## Ren. (Jul 6, 2021)

Playa4321 said:


> Croco come to early in the game, because that Oda lvl up his strenght.
> 
> Jinbe haki is clearly above DR Luffy haki and same Luffy did this:
> 
> ...


@Playa4321  If anyone bullies you tag me.



Playa4321 said:


> Jinbe haki is clearly above DR Luffy haki and same Luffy did this:


That sound like me in OJ ... damn the memories.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Breadman (Jul 6, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> DD at the mere mention of Kaido coming after him:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 /thread

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Mihawk (Jul 6, 2021)

I really don't see how Jimbei tanks a relentless barrage of G4 attacks from DR Luffy and shrugs them off until the time limit like Doffy did. Doflamingo's durability is extremely underrated. Maybe Jimbei can do it with the Hardening he's shown now, but I seriously doubt that Who's Who's offence is even on par with that version of Luffy, or that Jimbei would be in any better shape than Doflamingo after that.

Jimbei's attacks are no joke, especially since he's breaking an Ancient Zoan's defences and Tekkai Armament induced attacks. I'm pretty sure Doflamingo could still react to his moves pretty easily though, and he's not just a close quarters fighter (where he would obviously lose if he was restricted to that).

Recency bias continues to make Doflamingo a scapegoat.

We'll see if the WW fight is over first, I guess. Anyways, am already engaged with this topic in a different thread, so I'll probably just post my arguments and scans there after rereading Cracker fight.

Just sickening to see every minor character getting placed over him Next, we'll be saying that Izo mid-diffs Doflamingo or something

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Dislike 1


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## MrPopo (Jul 6, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> I really don't see how Jimbei tanks a relentless barrage of G4 attacks from DR Luffy and shrugs them off until the time limit like Doffy did. Doflamingo's durability is extremely underrated. Maybe Jimbei can do it with the Hardening he's shown now, but I seriously doubt that Who's Who's offence is even on par with that version of Luffy, or that Jimbei would be in any better shape than Doflamingo after that.
> 
> Jimbei's attacks are no joke, especially since he's breaking an Ancient Zoan's defences and Tekkai Armament induced attacks. I'm pretty sure Doflamingo could still react to his moves pretty easily though, and he's not just a close quarters fighter (where he would obviously lose if he was restricted to that).
> 
> ...


low-diffs*

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Firo (Jul 6, 2021)

Doffy got this and power inflation when he returns is gonna make it more obvious.


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## MrPopo (Jul 6, 2021)

Firo said:


> Doffy got this and power inflation when he returns is gonna make it more obvious.


Prison gains Doffy

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mihawk (Jul 6, 2021)

MrPopo said:


> Prison gains Doffy


I mean look as Prison gains Jinbei. 

He went from losing to Teen Ace to thrashing Who's Who


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## ShadoLord (Jul 6, 2021)

I’ll predict prison gains Doffy fighting Big Meme and Admirals


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