# American Black Bear vs African Lion



## Waking Dreamer (May 14, 2011)

Holy Crap!

[YOUTUBE]W_ZGEKH6A9I[/YOUTUBE]

So yeah,

*Scenario*
1. Start head on 20 meters from each other. 
2. Both in a state to claim territory

*Edit: Stat changes*



Typical Male Black bear:
*Weight:*  57-250 kg (125 - 550 lb)
*Length:* 120-200 cm (47-79 in)
*Shoulder height:* 70-105 cm (28-42 in)

Typical Male African Lion:  
*Weight:* 150–250 kg (330–550 lb)
*Length:* 170–250 cm (67 -98 in)
*Shoulder height:* Up to 123cm


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## Glued (May 14, 2011)

A little question, is this a Tsavo Lion?


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## ~M~ (May 14, 2011)

Lion has more speed and much deadlier jaw it seems.


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## Glued (May 14, 2011)

A black bear has ripper claws that can tear open tree trunks or crocodile scales. A black bear's best bet is to get its ripper claws in the lion's rib cage and tear it open.


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## ~M~ (May 14, 2011)

Granting the lion doesn't chomp on it's neck first, or strike with it's claws as well.


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## Waking Dreamer (May 14, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> A little question, is this a Tsavo Lion?



Im not sure, I cant seem to find the webpage i got the stat from. But I think it was a man-eating lion that was shot and recorded. 

Tsavo male lions tend to be maneless though or have very little right?

It could have been a Barbary Lion though, which was said to be the lagest of the subspecies and they actually have thick black manes that run right along  the underbelly and groin.


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## I3igAl (May 14, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> A little question, is this a Tsavo Lion?



Male tsavo lions don't have manes.



Is the American blackbear this huge? The Black Bears in Europe weight about 60 kg. I saw some in the Zoo and they looked really small...

I'd say both animals are pretty equal, if they have the same size with a slight edge to the lion.


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## Naruto (May 14, 2011)

I'm pretty sure the bear takes this. The lion has a powerful jaw in him, but unless he hits the bear's vitals, it will probably only serve to give the bear a crazy good grip to rip the lion's face off.

Though, to be honest, the bear in the video looks smaller than I expected an adult American Black Bear to look like.



~M~ said:


> Lion has more speed



Running speed, right? Have you seen how fast bears maul their victims?


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## Waking Dreamer (May 14, 2011)

I3igAl said:


> Is the American blackbear this huge? The Black Bears in Europe weight about 60 kg. I saw some in the Zoo and they looked really small...



Yeah, Black bears vary in size due to location and even time of year but there can definitely be large black bears comparable to size of some brown bears (not kodiak though).

Basically its a standoff between two fully grown males (in their prime), from their species of similar weight.

Also just to note, Bears can stand on their hind legs lifting their head/upper torso a great distance from the ground and strike with their forelimbs while keeping balance.


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## Weather (May 14, 2011)

Going with the bear here, more size and power.


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## crimsonshade (May 14, 2011)

bear since it should be more versatile with the whole standing on the hind leg and whatnot


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## ovanz (May 14, 2011)

The Lion looked huge on that video, plus the bear escaped lol. 

African Lion wins.


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## FireEel (May 14, 2011)

Going with lion.

I feel that big cats generally have an advantage over bears of the same weight category.


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## Waking Dreamer (May 15, 2011)

Naruto said:


> Though, to be honest, the bear in the video looks smaller than I expected an adult American Black Bear to look like.





ovanz said:


> The Lion looked huge on that video, plus the bear escaped lol.




Well the video clip was from some really old movie and both lion and bear were trained animals. Im not sure if that Black bear would be the same weight as the lion he was fighting. The clip is pretty interesting (animal cruelty aside) in showing how they may confront each other. You can see the bear standing on his hind legs for a moment 

The original stats in the OP were kind of outliers for both species so Id cut them back to the largest of their typical physical ranges in the wild – which is 550 Ib or 250 kg each.
​
Typical Male Black bear:
*Weight:*  57-250 kg (125 - 550 lb)
*Length:* 120-200 cm (47-79 in)
*Shoulder height:* 70-105 cm (28-42 in)

Typical Male African Lion:  
*Weight:* 150–250 kg (330–550 lb)
*Length:* 170–250 cm (67 -98 in)
*Shoulder height:* Up to 123cm


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## Nevermind (May 15, 2011)

I don't know if a Lion's jaws can do anything against the dense fat of a bear. However a Black Bear doesn't have the dense bones of a Grizzly. I think the bear's claws will do a lot more damage to the lion than the lion's claws will do to the bear.


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## KaiserWombat (May 15, 2011)

It ends in sex.


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## crimsonshade (May 15, 2011)

Nevermind said:


> I don't know if a Lion's jaws can do anything against the dense fat of a bear. However a Black Bear doesn't have the dense bones of a Grizzly. I think the bear's claws will do a lot more damage to the lion than the lion's claws will do to the bear.



that's what i thought.  the lion's best bet is bitting but IMO the lion's jaws are not strong enough to penetrate the thick fur/skin-thick fat-thick muscles of the bear protecting it's vitals to do any sort of significant damage.  whereas the bear's best bet is his claws which will do significant damage to the lion if he can get a good hit in...especially if it stood up and used it's weight in the strikes.


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## Genyosai (May 15, 2011)

I honestly don't have a clue who is the better. I'm going to say it ends in a respectful stalemate.




KaiserWombat said:


> It ends in sex.



Yeah, and then that.


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## Disaresta (May 15, 2011)

KaiserWombat said:


> It ends in sex.



What kind of fetish do you have, I'm kinda interested


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## Waking Dreamer (May 16, 2011)

KaiserWombat said:


> It ends in sex.



They're both males....


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## Federer (May 16, 2011)

Waking Dreamer said:


> They're both males....



And you think that's the problem? 

Anyway going with the lion here.


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## Hunter (May 16, 2011)

^^^LOL

Going with Lion. His mane *might* protect him against the Bear.


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## Dogescartes (May 16, 2011)

Bears are GAR, and lions  sleep all the day. bear wins


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## familyparka (May 16, 2011)

fedecala said:


> Bears are GAR, and lions  sleep all the day. bear wins



Lions fight for territory and for sex, bears sleep all winter...

Lion wins, his body is designed for this, and the bear... not *THAT* much, so yeah, I'd go for the Lion


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## fathertime (May 9, 2012)

Lion's are the King of the beast, there's no getting around that. An it wasent over night either, it has little to do with his mane. Why else would they put a (Crown) on the lion's head, if his mane was already the crown??? He had that title "King" from pretty much the entire world, not just the cartoon which was less than 25 year's ago. I'm talking about thousand's of year's. From the Roman emprie, to African's, to Indian's, to Eygypt, to the British empire an even singapore China, have recorded historical artifact's that lion's were superior to all other land animal predator's.
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But in my point of view, they are almost equal's 1 on 1. Size isint alway's the winning factor, Bruce lee, Chuck norris, Mike tyson, Mirko cro cop, Pitbull's, Wolverine's an many other thing's have proven that size isint the only factor in winning a fight. 
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Beside's the lion has been proven time in again an again, to be on equal ground's with the biggest an hardest hitter's on the planet. There's small pack's of 6-10 wolve's that have already killed giant brown bear's, so a lion pride would walk threw the valley of the beast, an greet any bear with a thunderous roar. Let alone, a single male lion would give a kodiak or grizzley all they wanted.
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The california grizzley storie's are all the bear's have for victorie's, but they come into question on the credability on them also hint's bia's from that 1 source, when they say bear's beat spanish bull's when mexican's have there own recorded data an artifact's that spanish fighting bull's tossed around any an every black or brown bear when it was on fair ground's who exploited they alway's tied up the bull's an sawed off the horn's that was the only way the bear's won.

Little is explained in detail's, beside's the famous the bear klled the lion like a cat would a rat, which is highly over exgeratted, an poetic at best. When in reality a rat put's up no accord to a cat, yet a lion can kill thing's that are 20x bigger than the world's biggest bear, like Elephant's, Rhino's, Giraffe's, Hippo's, Buffalo's Croc's an more. So I dont think just a 100-300 pound's as an advantage would grant him that capabilitie, implementing lion's can grow just as big as bear's. Both average's around 400-500 pound's, bear's exceed the thousand pound range as a rarity, but lion's can reach a formidible size as well to return equal strength. Here's some big boy's for the lion as well...
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- 800 pound lion named ponto fight?s off 2 tiger?s

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826 pound lion named simba

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800 pound lion named munbasa 


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826 pound lion 
the 
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800 pound lion attack?s tarzan
the  
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2? 800 pound lion?s 1 named Prince an 1 named clarence
Martin Manhunter
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An there's 2... 900 pound lion's just type in 2 900 pound lion's on youtube to see them.
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The fact is there's more account's of lion's killing bear's 1 on 1 then vice versa an here's a few account's...
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1.1902 lion named roosevlet killed peary the polar bear.
2.John heliot?s circus lion named brutus kills polar bear.

3. lion kills polar bear 1955 By Alfred Court.Pages 131-132,
4. lion kills polar bear Louis Roth, forty years with jungle killers, page 204-205.
5.1893 Pezon in limoges, Leo the lion kills polar bear
6.Boltimore the lion kills russian grizzley

7. Lion stale mate?s enormous grizzley bear 
THE OAKLAND TRIBUNE APRIL 1, 1895 "A DRAW" PARNELL FIGHTS A BIG BEAR. 
THE LOS ANGELES TIMES APRIL 2, 1895 "BRUIN THROWS LEO
8. Lion kills bruin the grizzly bear 

9.Lion kills bruin the male grizzley in coney island.
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But a bear would be a joke to no animal, but in the end by nature's standard's lion's live in pride's an at the lion's full potential no band of bear's would stand a chance to an onsluaght of lion's. But a pit fight 1 on 1 would go around 50/50 depending on status an attribute's of those individual's.


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## fathertime (May 9, 2012)

Source 1.

Now both males attack, one grappling with her head as the other bites her stomach. She twists away in pain from the stomach bite. 
Note the protection offered by the mane on the lion on the left as the female's claws and blows are cushioned by the thick matted fur.
Source 2.

Indeed there are good scientific data that male lions with long manes are more likely to survive and have fewer injuries.
The Fetal Matrix: Evolution, Development and Disease
By Peter D. Gluckman, Mark Hanson

Source 3.
This tiger was captured in India and went against a lion after being in captivity for only few days. Don't tell me that these few days changed the tiger's behavior in which it could not deliver a fatal neck bite. 
It was the Tiger's fight and he knew it. He sprang at the staggering Lion, took a fearful chop on the nose without flinching and set his teeth into the African's hairy throat. They wrestled desperately, and the Lion's heavy mane saved him from suffocation. Great mouthfuls of long coarse hair catching in the Tiger's teeth not only preventing him from getting a death grip, but so interfered with his with his respiration that he had to release the hold, whereupon the Lion swatted him with a tremendous uppercut and sent him tumbling twenty feet away. 

Source 4.

The lion's mane, not possessed by the female, is evidently such a weapon of defense; it is a excellent means of protection against the bites which the male lions try to inflict on each other's necks when fighting for the females; consequently those males with the strongest manes have the greatest advantage in the sexual struggle.

The History of Creation, Or, The Development of the Earth and Its Inhabitants by the Action of naterual causes.
By L. Dora Schmitz, Sir E Ray Lankester 
Source 5.
?Down sprang Caesar, determined to seize the offensive, but before he could do so, Bobby had battled his way through Caesar's paws, grabbed his mane so stubbornly that he couldn't move. For the next couple of minutes each struggled and strained for an advantage, but Bobby's hold was so tenacious that they only succeeded in twisting a little. With the cameras continuing to grind and getting nothing but a little harmless tug of war? Energy spent, the exhausted Bobby tried to roll away from Caesar, but Caesar's hold now was as firm as Bobby's which had been on his mane. Seeing this turn in affairs, I dashed into the cage. Already Caesar's jaws had crunched Bobby's neck and when I got there Caesar was shaking Bobby's limp, bloody head and throat from side to side. Bobby's eyes were turning starey. He was dead and it was only two minutes since I had dashed the ammonia into his face. I was keenly sorry that I had done it, but in thinking it over I became convinced that my part had been negligible. The lion is frequently the superior; he doubtless would have been the winner in this case no matter what I had done.?
Source 6.
If so, it is conceivable that a single male lion attacked by a pack of hyenas could reduce injury with the help of its mane. Manes protect males in interaspecific in other species. It may additionally confer advantages by limiting wounding in the neck region.
~Antipredator Defenses in Birds and Mammals
By Timothy M. Caro

Source 7.
The lion's mane, not possessed by the female, is evidently such a weapon of defense; it is a excellent means of protection against the bites which the male lions try to inflict on each other's necks when fighting for the females; consequently those males with the strongest manes have the greatest advantedge in the sexual struggle.
The History of Creation, Or, The Development of the Earth and Its Inhabitants by the Action of naterual causes.
By L. Dora Schmitz, Sir E Ray Lankester 

Source 8.

The mane is also a means of protection to the face and neck during fights between male lions.

Source 9.
It causes him to look bigger without increasing his weight or need for food. It also protects him from bites and scratches should he have to fight another male.

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## fathertime (May 9, 2012)

Here's more on the lion's battle mane.
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Source 10.
The mane protects the lion from bites to the throat or the neck. 
<click> 

Source 11.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/wildfacts/factfiles/14.shtml 
The mane protects the lion during fights with other males.
Source 12.

The lion?s thick mane protects his neck against raking claws during fights with other males for membership in the pride. 
Source 14.
(e.g lion's mane protects him from teeth and claws in a fight). 
so it would look like this in your mind's eye? 
Source 15.
Male lions are the only cats with manes. This collar of long, thick hair covers the head, except the face, and the neck down to the shoulders and chest. The mane makes the male look even bigger and stronger than he is. It also protects him during fights. The long, thick hair softens the blows of his foes. 
Schaller, George B. "Lion." World Book Encyclopedia. 2002 ed. The best naturalist of the 20th century said that. 
Source 16.
On the open savannah, a lion's mane advertises his maleness from a great distance. To enhance his mane, a lion will do the "lion strut": tip-toeing on front legs, erect body and tail. The mane also protects against claws and teeth in male combat. 


Source 17.
A male lion's mane is designed to protect the animal from attacks from other lions. It apparently also works with hand grenades as well. Marjan's neck and chest were spared serious injury, but his face was badly mutilated by the blast.
Martin Manhunter 

Source 18.
The most distinctive feature of the male lion is its mane, a collar of long, thick fur. An adolescent male's mane will begin to grow at 18 months, after which it will continue to grow and darken until the age of five. A visual indicator of gender and power, the mane also serves to protect the lion's neck from other lions. 

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## fathertime (May 9, 2012)

Here's more on the lion's battle mane...
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Source 19.
The mane helps protect the lion?s neck during fighting and make him appear larger to competitors

Source 20.
Their mane serves a number of purposes: a) it identifies him as a mature male to other lions, even at a distance b) it gives an appearance of increased size with little weight cost c) the condition of the mane conveys the level of health and vigour to female lions d) it can help protect the head and neck area in fights with other lions. 
so it would look like this in your mind's eye? 
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Source 21.
Samantha Stephens, says the lions mane might not make a big difference, but it might be that crucial amount of difference.
Link removed 
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Source 22.
?When one animal attacks another, he seems to know by instinct. He strikes for the neck for a quick kill. Nature seems to have provided the lion with a defensive covering -- a mane to protect the neck area.?
~The Lion in Fact and in Fiction
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Source 23.
?The mane is strictly a male attribute and gives lion?s their majestic aura? It acts almost like a fencing mask, absorbing paw swipes aimed at the head and necks during fights between rivals. When mane?s grow to big for both rival?s, the fight can last up to hour?s due to the mane protecting the main arterie?s, little to nothing can be done to male?s who have mane?s that grown larger than others for it?s main reason is for combat .?
~The Art of Being a Lion 
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Source 24.
The mane plays an important role in the lion?s life. While a long mane that blows easily in the wind may be difficult to hide when hunting an alert zebra, it is a distinct advantage in defense? That same mane gives his neck a good bit of protection in case the intruder does not turn away and chooses to challenge the resident lion for his position. 
~The Last Big Cats An Untamed Spirit
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Source 25.
Male lions are larger than females and possess a voluminous mane which contrast with the sleek pelage on other parts of the body? The distinctive colors and sizes of manes may also help animals to identify individuals. An important secondary function of the mane is one of protection during fights. The dense mat of hair absorbs blows and harmlessly tangles claws in a part of the body towards which most social contact is directed; bites too, may leave an opponent with a mouth full of hair rather than skin.
~The Serengeti Lion A Study of Predator-Prey Relations Wildlife Behavior and Ecology series.
Source 26.
There is no direct evidence, but if we examine the probabilities in the case of a confrontation between the two some inferences can be drawn. In a fight would de unable to get close to the vital joint of a lion?s neck because of his thick mane, but the tiger is vulnerable to the lion. The film showed that the tiger was at an immediate disadvantage. Tigers use a throat grip as their primary means of killing and the lion's thick protective mane prevented the tiger gaining a hold on the throat joint. On the other hand, the tiger had no special protection, so was vulnerable to attack. In this fight, the tiger was killed. In any inter-species confrontation lions would also have the advantage of the who pride. But in my opinion a tiger is no match even for a single lion of equal strength. In any inter-species confrontation lions would also have the advantage of support from members of the whole pride. But in my opinion a tiger is no match even for a single lion of equal strength.
Tiger! The Story of the Indian Tiger, by Kailash Sankhala. 
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Source 27.
Now, as to a lion and tiger, I should say that the tiger is the more powerful of the two. At the same time, it is more cowardly, has more of the slinking nature of the cat, and is more treacherous. I believe I?m fully qualified to state, as I?ve had them both on me. I bear the teeth marks of a lion that shut his jaws tight on my legs. But it isn?t the teeth of the big cats trainers fear so much. It is the claws, being hooked, tear out the flesh and sinew as they are withdrawn. When a lion goes at a trainer he starts right towards him, with no subterfuge, mouth open and tail as stiff as a poker. A tiger cringes and crawls until he makes his spring. In a fair fight it would be hard to guess which animal would come off victor, and much would depend, I think on the one that got the first good hold. The lion also is protected around the neck by the heavy mane, which is an advantage. 
~George Conklln, ?Adventures With a Circus?
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Martin Manhunter 
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Link removed 
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## Voyeur (May 10, 2012)

Bear wins with mid difficulty. Lions are tough, but they aren't taking a wallop from a bear claw. If it was a Grizzly it'd be a stomp.


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## Huey Freeman (May 10, 2012)

Well this aint your average bear .

The Bear can win if it mauls the lion in the face , but since it is a black bear who dont have as much body mass as Grizzlies it will be severely wounded by the Lion.


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## Ejenku (May 10, 2012)

A large black bear should win. A smaller black bear losses.


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## Heavenly King (May 10, 2012)

Ben Grimm said:


> A black bear has ripper claws that can tear open tree trunks or crocodile scales. A black bear's best bet is to get its ripper claws in the lion's rib cage and tear it open.



Where has a Black bear ripped open crocodile scales?


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## Mider T (May 10, 2012)

Lion.  Quicker, at both far and close range.  Knows how to strike deadly by instinct as a carnivore, more stamina and ferocity.  Bears really don't have an urge to fight.  Black Bears themselves are especially shy.


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## I3igAl (May 10, 2012)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Holy Crap!
> 
> [YOUTUBE]W_ZGEKH6A9I[/YOUTUBE]



HOW THE HELL DID THEY FILM THIS?


With equalized size the Lion should win. Just look at his paws in the video. However a big Black bear will maul a small Lion.


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (May 10, 2012)

just wait till fathertime notices this thread


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## Heavenly King (May 10, 2012)

should have been a polar bear or a grizzly, like what I3igAl black bears are shy


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## Waking Dreamer (May 10, 2012)

Heavenly King said:


> should have been a polar bear or a grizzly, like what I3igAl black bears are shy



A polar bear would be twice the weight of a male lion, and pound-for-pound bears are more stronger built than a lion.


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## fathertime (Aug 6, 2012)

I do have an account of a black bear killing a lion, though I dont know what the condition the lion was in, though in asia, there was a sight that claimed in the 17th an 18th century lion's were known to have asiatic black bear's as part of there diet's, so I dont know, again it would have been in the wild, so coming across a 1 on 1 would have been astrinomical usually the lion's would probably have killed the black bear with unity.


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## fathertime (Aug 6, 2012)

3....2....1....Closed lol


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## Ultra Instinct Vegito (Aug 6, 2012)

If you are going to necro threads put some thought into your paragraphs and/or sentences please.  Lurk for a while  until you get the hang of how things go in here.


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