# The stigma of being an atheist in the US



## Saishin (Aug 4, 2014)

> Atheists in the US are rallying together, launching a new TV programme and providing support for those who go public with their beliefs.
> 
> "Sometimes things need to be said, and fights need to be fought even if they are unpopular. To the closeted atheists, you are not alone, and you deserve equality."
> 
> ...



http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-28616115?ocid=socialflow_twitter


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## Saishin (Aug 4, 2014)




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## Zaru (Aug 4, 2014)

> atheists





> go public with their beliefs



AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH


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## Saishin (Aug 4, 2014)

Didn't know atheists in America had a hard life,I mean I thought that say to someone that you're an atheist or whatsover wasn't a problem  atheists in the closet? this is curious


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## Zaru (Aug 4, 2014)

Saishin said:


> Didn't know atheists in America had a hard life  atheists in the closet? this is curious



Least trusted group in the USA, and many of them are surrounded by the braindead Y'ALL NEED JESUS bible zombies. In those areas, admitting that you're an atheist is like telling people that you sold your soul to Satan.


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## Sunrider (Aug 4, 2014)

There still exist laws in a myriad of states forbidding atheists from holding office, and there was a survey done recently, and the results suggested that by and large, the U.S. public will trust a rapist before an atheist. 

Think about that for a bit.


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## Seto Kaiba (Aug 4, 2014)

A lot of people in America still believe atheism means an absence of morals and insisting that a god doesn't exist, along with a "worship of science (evolution)" rather than it simply being not believing in one, and nothing more than that.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Aug 4, 2014)

that sounds like it goes against church state serperation or something to me.

I imagine those laws only exist because no-ones actually had to challenge them yet.


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## Zaru (Aug 4, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> A lot of people in America still believe atheism means an absence of morals and insisting that a god doesn't exist, along with a "worship of science (evolution)" rather than it simply being not believing in one, and nothing more than that.



Apparently too many american atheists think that way too.
LET'S FORM ORGANIZATIONS, BUILD OUR OWN MONUMENTS AND CELEBRATE OUR LACK OF BELIEF IN FAIRYTALES AS PUBLICLY AS POSSIBLE


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## Saishin (Aug 4, 2014)

Zaru said:


> Least trusted group in the USA, and many of them are surrounded by the braindead Y'ALL NEED JESUS bible zombies. In those areas, admitting that you're an atheist is like telling people that you sold your soul to Satan.


Damn if this is the reaction for someone that admit to be atheist I wonder what is the reaction for someone admitting to be agnostic.

Btw is there in the US constitution an article that clearly state the separation between state and church?


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## Seto Kaiba (Aug 4, 2014)

Zaru said:


> Apparently too many american atheists think that way too.
> LET'S FORM ORGANIZATIONS, BUILD OUR OWN MONUMENTS AND CELEBRATE OUR LACK OF BELIEF IN FAIRYTALES AS PUBLICLY AS POSSIBLE



Yeah that is irritating and it doesn't help. Like that obnoxious "Atheists Monument" that had "An atheist believes..." no that's what a secular humanist believes. There's also the fact that America has like a collective PTSD from the Red Scare and McCarthyism. So atheists are often lumped together with DIRTY COMMIES, and in turn, completely opposed to the concepts people (often mistakenly) believe America was founded upon.



			
				Saishin said:
			
		

> Damn if this is the reaction for someone that admit to be atheist I wonder what is the reaction for someone admitting to be agnostic.



Well agnostic is seen as a "milder" term, as opposed to people's idea with atheism which they conflate its entirety with gnostic atheism...but the problem is that it is not a middle-ground between theism and atheism, it's a separate class of its own. An agnostic can be either theist or atheist, but it like atheism is a distinction a lot of people get wrong.


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## Zaru (Aug 4, 2014)

Saishin said:


> Btw is there in the US constitution an article that clearly state the separation between state and church?



Article 6 I think... but yes, it's against the constitution to require any particular religious belief for any political/government position. 

Doesn't stop like half a dozen states from doing so anyway. Explicitly. And they get away with it.


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## Buskuv (Aug 4, 2014)

This is some fedora tippin' shit right here.


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## Mael (Aug 4, 2014)

Sunrider said:


> There still exist laws in a myriad of states forbidding atheists from holding office, and there was a survey done recently, and the results suggested that by and large, the U.S. public will trust a rapist before an atheist.
> 
> Think about that for a bit.



Yet the big bad is supposed to be radical Islam...


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## Distance (Aug 4, 2014)

"_If you don't believe in god, then you're a puppet and or working for the devil, and our geopolitical enemies!_" 



If they can't beat you with God, then they'll beat you with Satan.


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## IchLiebe (Aug 4, 2014)

Saishin said:


> Damn if this is the reaction for someone that admit to be atheist I wonder what is the reaction for someone admitting to be agnostic.
> 
> Btw is there in the US constitution an article that clearly state the separation between state and church?



I've grown up in the bible belt and being an Atheist is about the worst thing you can be.


If im in a relationship and she wants to go to church Sunday...we're done.

Most of them are to dumb to realize the difference between agnosticism and atheism. If you don't believe in Jesus your a heretic.


Everyday I would go to school and instead of getting educated by the education system, I would get educated by a bunch of Christian nutjobs everyday, allday. Get on the bus, "Do you really not believe in Jesus?", "I don't believe in ur God?"   :amazed "You know you're going to hell" "You know I don't believe in hell." :Amazed "Here you can take my bible home with you" "Good, I ran out of 1.5s and bible pages burn well" :amazed.


Yea separation of state and church is in the constitution the very first amendment. 


But I thought the Christians were funny. They are preaching from sheer ignorance and have no idea what the bible actually is, but instead but all their faith into it.

Told this chick to go read the epic of Gilgamesh...she's agnostic now.


It's alot easier to make someone doubt than to believe.


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## Saishin (Aug 4, 2014)

Zaru said:


> Apparently too many american atheists think that way too.
> LET'S FORM ORGANIZATIONS, BUILD OUR OWN MONUMENTS AND CELEBRATE OUR LACK OF BELIEF IN FAIRYTALES AS PUBLICLY AS POSSIBLE


Atheism is the negation of god or of any kind of spiritualism,so the demand to build monuments or stuff like that from the atheists is kinda contradictory,I mean it's like they want to turn atheism into a sort of religion imo.If they don't believe to anything they can't ask for monuments,well they can make a logo 


Seto Kaiba said:


> Well agnostic is seen as a "milder" term, as opposed to people's idea with atheism which they conflate its entirety with gnostic atheism...but the problem is that it is not a middle-ground between theism and atheism, it's a separate class of its own. An agnostic can be either theist or atheist, but it like atheism is a distinction a lot of people get wrong.


I see 



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nql2BX-fBV4[/YOUTUBE]


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## Unlosing Ranger (Aug 4, 2014)

Zaru said:


> Apparently too many american atheists think that way too.
> LET'S FORM ORGANIZATIONS, BUILD OUR OWN MONUMENTS AND CELEBRATE OUR LACK OF BELIEF IN FAIRYTALES AS PUBLICLY AS POSSIBLE



 I'm sure quite a few people would go off their rocker when


> "If you don't believe in god, then you're a puppet and or working for the devil, and our geopolitical enemies!"





> I've grown up in the bible belt and being an Atheist is about the worst thing you can be.





> so the demand to build monuments or stuff like that from the atheists is kinda contradictory,I mean it's like they want to turn atheism into a sort of religion imo.If they don't believe to anything they can't ask for monuments,well they can make a logo


The logo sucks. Monuments are associated with religion? They don't have to do with it at all. I mean the statue of liberty is a monument. So I would say there is some one sided bias there to try to underhandedly demean another group that has been established.


> a statue, building, or other structure erected to commemorate a famous or notable person or event.


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## Hitt (Aug 4, 2014)

It says something about the populace here when your average person trusts a goddamn RAPIST over an atheist.  Of course, as others have already pointed out in this thread, that stems from FUD being spread about atheists and most people not even understanding what an atheist _is_ nor the position he/she holds.


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## Blue (Aug 4, 2014)

Vocal atheists are basically Satanists, retards who want attention. 

Some crazy religious people like IchLiebe give them it. 

Most people don't.


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## GaaraoftheDesert1 (Aug 4, 2014)

Atheism is on the rise in the world and especially the US. The conservative bullshit is slowly over....


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## Huey Freeman (Aug 4, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> A lot of people in America still believe atheism means an absence of morals and insisting that a god doesn't exist, along with a "worship of science (evolution)" rather than it simply being not believing in one, and nothing more than that.



"Science is a bunch of hocus-pocus witch craft."


*few years later develops some terminal illness*

"Save me Science !"


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## Hitt (Aug 4, 2014)

Danger Doom said:


> "Science is a bunch of hocus-pocus witch craft."
> 
> 
> *few years later develops some terminal illness*
> ...



Then when Science does save them:

"Thank the Lord Jesus I've been saved!"


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 4, 2014)

> 82% say at times they feel a deep connection with nature



I do to my friend.


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## Violent by Design (Aug 4, 2014)

Saishin said:


> Atheism is the negation of god or of any kind of spiritualism,so the demand to build monuments or stuff like that from the atheists is kinda contradictory,I





How is that contradictory? Symbolism isn't the same thing as theism.


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## Sherlōck (Aug 4, 2014)

Are European Countries more open to atheist than US?


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## the_notorious_Z.É. (Aug 4, 2014)

There are associations and groups for people who don't believe in god? can't you just don't believe? 

I might be wrong but I've notice that Americans have this strange need to publicize their beliefs and make a big deal out of it, I'm a Jew, I'm a Christian, I'm a Muslim, I'm an atheist, I'm a whatever...


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## Zaru (Aug 4, 2014)

the_notorious_Z.?. said:


> There are associations and groups for people who don't believe in god? can't you just don't believe?
> 
> I might be wrong but I've notice that Americans have this strange need to publicize their beliefs and make a big deal out of it, I'm a Jew, I'm a Christian, I'm a Muslim, I'm an atheist, I'm a whatever...



What I can understand is forming groups with the intent to influence religious discrimination and bias, but it will probably just harden the position of Christians who want to keep the status quo.


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## Sunuvmann (Aug 4, 2014)

Worry not my friends, the time of atheists and agnostics is soon. Like many backwards as fuck things, the old farts just need to die off.

I think that is generally a good idea what they're doing in the OP of suggesting people come out as gay people did. Its far easier to stereotype and make completely wrong assumptions about people when they are just an abstract concept.


> *Survey: One in five Americans has no religion*
> 
> Editor's note: CNN recently won four first-place reporting awards from the Religion Newswriters Association. Read more about the awards here.
> 
> ...


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## ClandestineSchemer (Aug 4, 2014)

Do they not know about agnostics and similar denoinations or do they think they are the same as atheists?


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## Seto Kaiba (Aug 4, 2014)

If you don't have a belief in god that pretty much makes you atheist, because that's what atheism is...a lack of belief in one.


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## Mael (Aug 4, 2014)

The difference between agnosticism and atheism is that the latter pretty much believes 100% that there's no god or gods.  The former simply isn't sure of one.


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## Blue (Aug 4, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> If you don't have a belief in god that pretty much makes you atheist, because that's what atheism is...a lack of belief in one.



Not doing this again, be stubborn if you want. Even if you somehow manage to change the vernacular so that agnostic = atheist, agnostics will just come up with a new word for themselves so they don't have to be a part of your hipster bullshit.


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## Blue (Aug 4, 2014)

And then atheists will be all "No, no, Fizzywicks are atheists too!" and we'll have to have this discussion again.


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## Zaru (Aug 4, 2014)

The majority of these people who don't follow a major religion and don't believe in some common depiction of god are just women who cherrypick together some superstitious spirituality


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## Seto Kaiba (Aug 4, 2014)

Mael said:


> The difference between agnosticism and atheism is that the latter pretty much believes 100% that there's no god or gods.  The former simply isn't sure of one.



whoa. hold on this is exactly what I was talking about before.

First of all, it's simply a yes or no question of belief. 

The difference between atheism and agnosticism is that they are two different classes of thought, belief and knowledge. They are not answering the same question, one is not on the same spectrum as the other.

That transitory period most atheists and religious doubters wind up in is agnostic theism...because the demands of religion typical demand claims of knowledge as well as belief (gnostic theism), and most of them as most atheists are, become agnostic atheists.

I'm not sure a god exists or not, but I have been given no reason to believe in one. That is what most atheists will say as well. No one is going to reasonably state that they *know* a deity doesn't exist.



			
				Blue said:
			
		

> Not doing this again, be stubborn if you want. Even if you somehow manage to change the vernacular so that agnostic = atheist, agnostics will just come up with a new word for themselves so they don't have to be a part of your hipster bullshit.



It's not being hipster, you dong. I'm agnostic, but I'm also atheist.

Because the two are separate classes from one another. If you ask me if I know god exists or not, I'll say "no" that is what makes me agnostic.

If you ask if I believe in a god I'll say "no" which makes me atheist.

This is simple stuff and I told you before that agnostics can be both atheist and theist. 

But if you specifically say you do not believe in a god, then you ARE atheist, there is no getting around that.


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## Mael (Aug 4, 2014)

> 1ag?nos?tic
> noun \ag-ˈn?s-tik, əg-\
> 
> : a person who *does not have a definite belief* about whether God exists or not
> ...






> athe?ist
> noun \ˈā-thē-ist\
> 
> : a person who believes that God does not exist


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## Jeαnne (Aug 4, 2014)

im the living proof that atheists and agnostics are different things

i was an atheist and then became agnostic


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## Krory (Aug 4, 2014)

Sunrider said:


> There still exist laws in a myriad of states forbidding atheists from holding office, and there was a survey done recently, and the results suggested that by and large, the U.S. public will *trust a rapist before an atheist*.
> 
> Think about that for a bit.



Certainly explains why the Bath House is in the current state it is. Makes a lot of sense.


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## LesExit (Aug 4, 2014)

Well fortunately the younger generations are less and less religious. Seems to be only a matter of time before religious people are in the minority honestly O___o


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## sworder (Aug 4, 2014)

first world problems right here

this is retarded. atheists are trying to treat their non-belief as a religion in itself


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## Seto Kaiba (Aug 4, 2014)

Mael said:


>



7% Say they *don't believe in god.*

You just made my point here. Atheism is *lack of belief in a deity.*

This is what I was talking about before. People think atheism is positive certainty that there is no deity, that is specific subset, not atheism itself. Belief is not about knowing for certain. No one honest can say for certain a deity doesn't exist, just that there's lack of compelling evidence for one. 

This is exactly why atheists have such a hard time with the average American, religion has almost irreparably damaged the conversation here.

Agnosticism is another matter entirely. It's about what you know or don't know. Theists and atheists both can be agnostic.


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## Jeαnne (Aug 4, 2014)

the theist lives a personal reality where a god exists, and believes this is the truth for all, may they live a personal reality based on it or not.

the atheist lives a personal reality where a god doesnt exist, and believes this is the truth for all, may they live a personal reality based on it or not.

the agnostic, independently of his personal reality, recognizes that humans are not capable of determining the truth of the universe, since we are limited to our own sensorial capacities.

the difference is huge.

i am an atheist agnostic, i guess, since i live a personal reality without a god, while i recognize that i cant determine the truth of the universe


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## Blue (Aug 4, 2014)

Everyone listen to Jeanne please


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## Krory (Aug 4, 2014)

>Expecting anyone in the Cafe to listen to anyone else

Oh, Blue...


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## Blue (Aug 4, 2014)

It is possible to be an agnostic atheist, like Kaiba

It is also possible to be an agnostic theist

Atheist and theist are mutually exclusive

Therefore if agnosticism was atheism, it would not be possible to be an agnostic theist

Neither is agnosticism simply a modifier for atheism and theism. It is the default state, from which one progresses to theism or atheism, perhaps remaining agnostic in the process and acknowledging that their faith - in god, or in the lack of god, is irrational.


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## Seto Kaiba (Aug 4, 2014)

Jeαnne said:


> the theist lives a personal reality where a god exists, and believes this is the truth for all, may they live a personal reality based on it or not.
> 
> the atheist lives a personal reality where a god doesnt exist, and believes this is the truth for all, may they live a personal reality based on it or not.
> 
> ...



Atheists live as if a deity isn't there. As in they don't engage in active worship of a deity, and profess no belief in one. Anyone can do that, it's not a matter of knowing. Atheism in and of itself, makes no claim of knowing the "truth of the universe" or the truth of whether or not a deity exists. It simply is about operating under the belief none do. 

Theists just as well, they may engage in active worship of a deity, and definitely profess belief in one. Theism in and of itself, makes no claim about knowing the truth of whether a deity or exists. It's simply operating under the belief one or more do.

What makes it matters of claiming to know the truth for atheism is those that seriously claim science at this point in time is capable of answering a question like that with certainty, making them gnostic atheists.

What makes matters of claiming to know the truth for theism are religious tenets that require more than a belief in a god, but knowing that such gods exists. Making it gnostic theism, which most organized religions tend to be.


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## Buskuv (Aug 4, 2014)

Shoot, where's that handy-dandy diagram?


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## Jeαnne (Aug 4, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Atheists live as if a deity isn't there. As in they don't engage in active worship of a deity, and profess no belief in one. Anyone can do that, it's not a matter of knowing. Atheism in and of itself, makes no claim of knowing the "truth of the universe" or the truth of whether or not a deity exists. It simply is about operating under the belief none do.
> 
> Theists just as well, they may engage in active worship of a deity, and definitely profess belief in one. Theism in and of itself, makes no claim about knowing the truth of whether a deity or exists. It's simply operating under the belief one or more do.
> 
> ...


yeah what we are seeing spreading are gnostic atheists


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## Linkofone (Aug 4, 2014)

LesExit said:


> Well fortunately the younger generations are less and less religious. Seems to be only a matter of time before religious people are in the minority honestly O___o



That's not fortunate at all.

People stereotype religious people too. But all of us are hardass asstart racist southerners who hate everyone. 

Damn it people.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 4, 2014)

I'm a Catholic who kind of sort of is talking to an Atheist and I don't see any issue with her not believing in God if she's a good person. 

I think that the problem I have with a lot of atheism movements is the same problem I have with a lot of American Catholics and Evangelicals--they go out of their way to make the world uncomfortable for others who don't feel like they do. Sure it's on a small scale because atheism is smaller, but I don't like it. 

The other issue I have with some the atheism  I see is that it seems to be very void of drawing a connection to religious belief and opinions about other things. I see atheists that are still homophobic, still racist and sexist and I wonder how the fuck you escape the God part of religion and bring a lot of the worst parts along with yourself.


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## LesExit (Aug 4, 2014)

Linkofone said:


> That's not fortunate at all.
> 
> People stereotype religious people too. But all of us are hardass asstart racist southerners who hate everyone.
> 
> Damn it people.


I know not all religious people are like that. Most of my family is religious. The decline of religion would mean that more people are letting go of more nonsense beliefs they get from a book, and are focusing more on reason and modern day morals(though no matter what they'll still be idiots .__.). There are more and more religious people that while claiming they're religious, don't really take their religions seriously. It's more like, yes I believe in God and an afterlife...but hell no I'm not gonna pay attention to any of the stone age morals in the Bible 

As people stop focusing so much on their religion and going to church, they'll have children...who also won't care too much about religion. Religion will basically only exist on the back-burner of their mind. Especially as the standard of living rises and people become more happy in their present lives 
I think it'll get to the point where some people may still believe in a God or whatever, but as far as these ancient religions go, no one will give them much credibility anymore, which I think is fortunate cause we know so much more than people back then did.


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## Violent by Design (Aug 4, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> The other issue I have with some the atheism  I see is that it seems to be very void of drawing a connection to religious belief and opinions about other things. I see atheists that are still homophobic, still racist and sexist and I wonder how the fuck you escape the God part of religion and bring a lot of the worst parts along with yourself.



Prejudice doesn't exist because of religion. I don't see why this is a shocker.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 4, 2014)

LesExit said:


> I know not all religious people are like that. Most of my family is religious. The decline of religion would mean that more people are letting go of more nonsense beliefs they get from a book, and are focusing more on reason and modern day morals(though no matter what they'll still be idiots .__.). There are more and more religious people that while claiming they're religious, don't really take their religions seriously. It's more like, yes I believe in God and an afterlife...but hell no I'm not gonna pay attention to any of the stone age morals in the Bible
> 
> As people stop focusing so much on their religion and going to church, they'll have children...who also won't care too much about religion. Religion will basically only exist on the back-burner of their mind. Especially as the standard of living rises and people become more happy in their present lives
> I think it'll get to the point where some people may still believe in a God or whatever, but as far as these ancient religions go, no one will give them much credibility anymore, which I think is fortunate cause we know so much more than people back then did.



I think you're putting too much hope into this idea that young people don't end up religious. I see scores of young people that are super religious around here. In the South it's not that uncommon to see college aged kids going to Bible study three nights a week. All that's happening now is that they're letting go of some of the beliefs that don't fit what they want to do or outright giving into the guilt of doing them anyway.


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## Violent by Design (Aug 4, 2014)

Also, most agnostics are atheist regardless if they acknowledge it or not, as the definition of atheism is not well understood amongst the masses which makes people think it is one or the other.  I have no idea what that has to do with being a hipster. Is being an atheist a hipster quality?


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 4, 2014)

Violent By Design said:


> Prejudice doesn't exist because of religion. I don't see why this is a shocker.



Religion definitely endorses it, at least the way it's practiced in the US. A lot of the anti gay arguments and anti women arguments are religious. Racism is harder to find a reason for, but outward racism seems more common in conservative backgrounds. It's to the point that black conservatives vote democrat because they feel the other party is too racist.


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## Saishin (Aug 4, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> I've grown up in the bible belt and being an Atheist is about the worst thing you can be.
> 
> 
> If im in a relationship and she wants to go to church Sunday...we're done.
> ...


And what are the bible belt states?


Unlosing Ranger said:


> The logo sucks. Monuments are associated with religion? They don't have to do with it at all. I mean the statue of liberty is a monument. So I would say there is some one sided bias there to try to underhandedly demean another group that has been established.


Touche,you're right,sowwy


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## Seto Kaiba (Aug 4, 2014)

Violent By Design said:


> Also, most agnostics are atheist regardless if they acknowledge it or not, as the definition of atheism is not well understood amongst the masses which makes people think it is one or the other.  I have no idea what that has to do with being a hipster. Is being an atheist a hipster quality?



I cannot say that...you can admit to not be at all sure of god's existence but still believe he exists.

The hipster thing...it's residual influences from arcane times. It's simply an evolution from how nonbelievers were treated in Catholic-dominated Europe most notably, at least as it pertains to the west. Considerably milder of course, but the stigma behind it and reason for it remains. They can't kill atheists anymore, so it just becomes verbal attacks these days. It's nonsense but many people are taught that morality cannot exist without god or religion, so atheists must be trying to rebel; also that ironically, it is supreme arrogance to deny God's glory that they presume is so evident but is only so to them because that is what they were taught by their religion.


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## mlc818 (Aug 4, 2014)

It's sad to think that you'd have to be worried about facing discrimination for being an atheist or agnostic.  I can certainly understand why some people might worry about their family's reaction, but you shouldn't have to worry that random other people will treat you poorly simply because you don't share their faith.


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## Deputy Myself (Aug 4, 2014)

Ok
Where does solipsism go?


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## Violent by Design (Aug 4, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> I cannot say that...you can admit to not be at all sure of god's existence but still believe he exists.


 You misunderstood and seem to think that I said that there are no agnostics who are theist. My statement was most agnostics are atheist, not that all agnostics are atheist, there are agnostics who are theist and deist.


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## Suit (Aug 4, 2014)

Zaru said:


> Least trusted group in the USA, and many of them are surrounded by the braindead Y'ALL NEED JESUS bible zombies. In those areas, admitting that you're an atheist is like telling people that you sold your soul to Satan.



How does an Austrian know such a truth? I'm curious.



IchLiebe said:


> I've grown up in the bible belt and being an Atheist is about the worst thing you can be.
> 
> 
> If im in a relationship and she wants to go to church Sunday...we're done.



I'm in that boat right now. I just basically refuse to pay attention to the women here at present because they're all religious. Can't wait to get my degree and haul ass to an area with less ignorance density.


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## Catalyst75 (Aug 4, 2014)

Saishin said:


> Didn't know atheists in America had a hard life,I mean I thought that say to someone that you're an atheist or whatsover wasn't a problem  atheists in the closet? this is curious



"America, the Land of the Free (but only if you believe in God)"

There is no way the United States can live up to that particular boast if they ostracize Atheists or others who do not believe in God to the extent that the latter are even afraid to admit in public they do not believe in God.  

Seriously, a poll said "*a rapist *is more trustworthy than an atheist"?  That is just stupid, and proof that the Christian religion in the U.S. is leaning towards the extremist side.  It certainly makes me glad that I am Canadian, but even then that exists here.


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## Saishin (Aug 4, 2014)

Zaru said:


> The majority of these people who don't follow a major religion and don't believe in some common depiction of god are just women who cherrypick together some superstitious spirituality


Also many who follow a major religion often live a very personal and individual religiousity,that not always coincide with the institutional one


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## -JT- (Aug 4, 2014)

"Keep Church and State separate"

Isn't this separation a Christian concept anyway?

Jesus saying 'Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's' and all that jazz.


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## The Pink Ninja (Aug 4, 2014)

It's more of a smegma than a stigma.

I find it hard to take overly seriously when atheists have above average quality of life indicators on every front. The road bumps they find in life are less than those of any visually different ethnic minority, any noticeable religious minority, anyone on the GLBT spectrum, anyone with a disability, anyone from a poor family... Hell, I bet short people are more oppressed than American atheists.

And this is before we get to real shit like, well, check the Mid-East news for Gaza, Syria or Iraq.

American atheists have already dealt the deathblow to the power of organised religion, it just doesn't know it's dead yet. Stop whining and wait a little while.

Twenty years ago no one could imagine gay marriage. Ten years ago it was hotly contested. Today DOMA and Don't Ask Don't Tell have shattered like glass and states monthly legalise gay marriage or its recognition. Ten years from now openly atheists members will be flooding Congress. Hopefully they won't be libertarian fuckwits.

If I made a list of the USA's top 100 problems this still wouldn't be close.


----------



## mlc818 (Aug 4, 2014)

Deputy Myself said:


> Ok
> Where does solipsism go?



A bit further north of that graphic? lol

EDIT: On topic, though, I'd be scared of someone who would trust a rapist more than an atheist.  That must mean that they truly believe there can be no morality without God, and that's not a firm enough morality for me to trust.  For all I know, some fancy new preacher will show up and they'll be stringing me up "for God" in a week.


----------



## Mael (Aug 4, 2014)

The Pink Ninja said:


> It's more of a smegma than a stigma.
> 
> I find it hard to take overly seriously when atheists have above average quality of life indicators on every front. The road bumps they find in life are less than those of any visually different ethnic minority, any noticeable religious minority, anyone on the GLBT spectrum, anyone with a disability, anyone from a poor family... Hell, I bet short people are more oppressed than American atheists.
> 
> ...



Welcome to the Age of Information though...where EVERY little segment of society has to have its soapbox and hugbox.


----------



## Saishin (Aug 4, 2014)

-JT- said:


> "Keep Church and State separate"
> 
> Isn't this separation a Christian concept anyway?
> 
> Jesus saying 'Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's' and all that jazz.


You're right but unfortunately some official religious representants are hypocrats and use their authority to interfere in the political life of the people,Italy is an example of this since it has the Vatican that is interlaced with the politics here while it should stay out of it and thank goodness the consitution define the separation of the church and state


----------



## Deputy Myself (Aug 4, 2014)

so basically the graph is bullshit
ok


----------



## cnorwood (Aug 4, 2014)

Obviously isnt true in Boulder CO, its sometimes the opposite here. Many people I talk to have similar attitudes towards religion as the more vocal people in this forum.


----------



## mlc818 (Aug 4, 2014)

Deputy Myself said:


> so basically the graph is bullshit
> ok



The graph doesn't claim to apply to all possible knowledge, only knowledge of God.  A "solipsist" would likely place himself on that graph, in the "no knowledge" portion, but the graph says nothing about his position on knowledge of worldly phenomena like people and cars and volcanoes.

Also solipsism is a far more useless belief system than agnosticism, purely because you don't have to interact with God/spirituality, but you do have to interact with the real world regardless of your beliefs about its existence.  A bullet can still apparently "kill" my mind, even if I'm skeptical of the existence of the bullet and shooter.


----------



## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 4, 2014)

I sincerely could not give a lesser fuck if people think I'm satanist, or I'm bad . 

I mean, most of people think creationism can be real, if I'm going to feel bad for what the marjority feels or thinks I would be eternally depressed because of the ignorance and dumbness .


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Aug 4, 2014)

Deputy Myself said:


> so basically the graph is bullshit
> ok



_the view or theory that the self is all that can be known to exist._

What point is there to your question? That would undeniably square such people into the agnostic area. Because they would in turn, have the view that the concept of a deity cannot be known to exist if the idea that one's self is the only thing that can be known to exist. 

Whether they have personal feeling of wanting to believe something beyond that would I presume depend on the individual.


----------



## LesExit (Aug 4, 2014)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I think you're putting too much hope into this idea that young people don't end up religious. I see scores of young people that are super religious around here. In the South it's not that uncommon to see college aged kids going to Bible study three nights a week. All that's happening now is that they're letting go of some of the beliefs that don't fit what they want to do or outright giving into the guilt of doing them anyway.


I'm in Connecticut. I've also seen many religious kids, but they're dwindling in numbers. I'd say the majority of my friends parents are religious, but they either claim to not care or say they don't believe. Just because things are changing, doesn't at all mean there still aren't many religious people, especially in the south.


----------



## Suit (Aug 4, 2014)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> I sincerely could not give a lesser fuck if people think I'm satanist, or I'm bad .
> 
> I mean, most of people think creationism can be real, if I'm going to feel bad for what the marjority feels or thinks I would be eternally depressed because of the ignorance and dumbness .



It's great that you can take that attitude, but it is upsetting for some people to be rejected by society just for a simple lack of belief. For example, I find that it sucks not being able to make real good friends with people just because they are religious. It's not because I like debating religion and/or philosophy for fun, it's that I just can't really connect with someone who is on such a different wavelength. I have religious friends who are pretty awesome to hang out with, but that's all I will ever be able to do with them. Can't have "bro" moments with religious "bros". Know what I'm saying?


----------



## Totally not a cat (Aug 4, 2014)

Is using rainbows as the flag for every social liberation movement a thing now? Genuinely curious.


----------



## LesExit (Aug 4, 2014)

Totally not a cat said:


> Is using rainbows as the flag for every social liberation movement a thing now? Genuinely curious.


I was wondering about that when I saw it. Though it was a gay thing...but maybe not !?


----------



## Linkofone (Aug 4, 2014)

LesExit said:


> I know not all religious people are like that. Most of my family is religious. The decline of religion would mean that more people are letting go of more nonsense beliefs they get from a book, and are focusing more on reason and modern day morals(*though no matter what they'll still be idiots .__.*). There are more and more religious people that while claiming they're religious, don't really take their religions seriously. It's more like, yes I believe in God and an afterlife...but hell no I'm not gonna pay attention to any of the stone age morals in the Bible
> 
> As people stop focusing so much on their religion and going to *church*, they'll have children...who also won't care too much about religion. Religion will basically only exist on the back-burner of their mind. Especially as the standard of living rises and people become more happy in their present lives
> I think it'll get to the point where some people may still believe in a God or whatever, but as far as these ancient religions go, no one will give them much credibility anymore, which I think is fortunate cause we know so much more than people back then did.



Wait, we're still talking about hardass conservative "Christian" bigots right?
I think you're focusing too much on "hardass" Christianity as a religion though. There are plenty of religions that preach peace and harmony.


----------



## Enclave (Aug 4, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> It's not being hipster, you dong. I'm agnostic, but I'm also atheist.
> 
> Because the two are separate classes from one another. If you ask me if I know god exists or not, I'll say "no" that is what makes me agnostic.
> 
> ...



Don't mind Blue, he's just a self hating atheist who does everything he can to try to convince himself he's not actually an atheist.


----------



## Kafuka de Vil (Aug 4, 2014)

Sherlōck said:


> Are European Countries more open to atheist than US?



Yes, hardly anyone would bat an eyelid if you said you didn't believe in a deity. 

Atheist Presidents and Prime Minsters have been knowingly elected in Europe for a while now.

I don't think we'll be seeing that happening in the US any time soon.


----------



## Jersey Shore Jesus (Aug 4, 2014)

The threads that get made here get stupider by the day...


----------



## Zaru (Aug 4, 2014)

I think they might get a homosexual POTUS before an atheist one.


----------



## Oceania (Aug 4, 2014)

hahahahahaha I love this thread.


----------



## Jersey Shore Jesus (Aug 4, 2014)

Zaru said:


> I think they might get a homosexual POTUS before an atheist one.



Who freaking cares who they are. As long as the person is for the constitution and freedom for everyone I'd vote for them. Hell Jesse Ventura is a Atheist and I'd vote for him if he runs for president. Rumors are he will.


----------



## Zaru (Aug 4, 2014)

Jersey Shore Jesus said:


> Who freaking cares who they are



The majority of Americans do


----------



## Jersey Shore Jesus (Aug 4, 2014)

Zaru said:


> The majority of Americans do



Thats the problem I know.


----------



## Linkofone (Aug 4, 2014)

A lot of people don't vote.


----------



## J★J♥ (Aug 4, 2014)

There should not be a word which means "Human who does not have imaginary friends on one way radio".


----------



## Sunuvmann (Aug 4, 2014)

Zaru said:


> I think they might get a homosexual POTUS before an atheist one.


Well openly atheist.

A lot of the US founding fathers were pretty much agnostic/atheist.


I think the current generation would probably be happy to have a gay or atheist POTUS. So, given demographics, it should be viable for either to win by 2036.


----------



## Fiona (Aug 4, 2014)

I have nothing against people with beliefs, its when they allow that belief to take over their lives in ridiculous ways that I find religion to be a detriment.


----------



## Oceania (Aug 4, 2014)

After really thinking about it, I really can picture a gay leader in charge in the near future.


----------



## Zaru (Aug 4, 2014)

Sunuvmann said:


> Well openly atheist.
> 
> A lot of the US founding fathers were pretty much agnostic/atheist.
> 
> ...



By pure statistics, neither would be likely to become president anytime soon considering what a small percentage of the population they are.


----------



## Kafuka de Vil (Aug 4, 2014)

Sunuvmann said:


> Well openly atheist.
> 
> A lot of the US founding fathers were pretty much agnostic/atheist.
> 
> ...



Most of the FF were actually deists. They believed in little to none of the miracles and supernaturalism found in the Judeo-Christian tradition.


----------



## Sunuvmann (Aug 4, 2014)

Zaru said:


> By pure statistics, neither would be likely to become president anytime soon considering what a small percentage of the population they are.


Well gays are roughly 10% of the population. (Less though in most statistics because closeted yields under-reporting) so they have about the same chance as any other minority. (Hispanic though has the best shot in the long run)

Atheist/agnostic though is definitely far better odds.

Because of a very high negative correlation between education level and religiosity.

Truman was the last president who didn't graduate college. Being college educated seems to be a mandatory requirement for the modern presidency, greatly increasing the odds over the population as a whole that a given president is actually an atheist/agnostic.


----------



## Krory (Aug 4, 2014)

Jersey Shore Jesus said:


> Who freaking cares who they are. As long as the person is for the constitution and *freedom for everyone* I'd vote for them.



Guess you never have voted, and will never.


----------



## LesExit (Aug 4, 2014)

Linkofone said:


> Wait, we're still talking about hardass conservative "Christian" bigots right?
> I think you're focusing too much on "hardass" Christianity as a religion though. There are plenty of religions that preach peace and harmony.


I was referring to atheists with what you bolded 

People either follow their religion literally, or they ignore stuff in their religion and pay more attention to morals of modern society as they should. 
Then even if a religion is made of _just_ peaceful messages that still does nothing about the fact that people are believing in things based off faith, which is a a bad way of thinking that should not be supported.


----------



## Rescuebear (Aug 4, 2014)

Atheism by definition is very specific.
To believe undoubtedly that there is no higher power even though such a thing can never be proven is why i'm not an Atheist.

The way my logic on this is that such a thing can never be proven or dis-proven. I personally don't believe there is a god or higher power, but I don't assert that there defiantly is no god because I cannot prove it.

And before someone refers to the teacup, even though its insanely unlikely. You never know.


It is nice to live in a secular country though.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Aug 4, 2014)

Rescuebear said:


> Atheism by definition is very specific.
> To believe undoubtedly that there is no higher power even though such a thing can never be proven is why i'm not an Atheist.
> 
> The way my logic on this is that such a thing can never be proven or dis-proven. I personally don't believe there is a god or higher power, but I don't assert that there defiantly is no god because I cannot prove it.
> ...



Few atheists assert with absolute certainty that they know a god doesn't exist.

The most definition most atheists fall under goes more like this:

Theist: My god is real!

Atheist: Whats your proof?


----------



## |)/-\\/\/|\| (Aug 4, 2014)

I'm tired of Americans and their atheism vs Christianity shit. This has become too much, I can't even watch an American TV show without having this shit argument thrown in my face ... people need to grow up. Keep your shit beliefs to yourself; we already have enough religious retards we don't need atheist retards as well.


----------



## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 4, 2014)

Tsukiyomi said:


> Few atheists assert with absolute certainty that they know a god doesn't exist.
> 
> The most definition most atheists fall under goes more like this:
> 
> ...



That's not a atheist, that's just someone playing by the scientific method by requiring the Burden of proof .


----------



## Linkofone (Aug 4, 2014)

> atheist retards



Those already exist.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Aug 4, 2014)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> That's not a atheist, that's just someone playing by the scientific method by requiring the Burden of proof .



In this instance there is no difference.  The person demanding proof lacks belief in that deity and likely will until that evidence is produced, that makes them an atheist.


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (Aug 4, 2014)

Blue said:


> Vocal atheists are basically Satanists, retards who want attention.
> 
> Some crazy religious people like IchLiebe give them it.
> 
> Most people don't.



I agree, I'm _probably _an atheist if I thought about it but a lot of atheists are the type of people who personally dislike God/Religion. Religious people are probably happier.

Religion may promote scientific ignorance, but it facilitates reproduction by giving people a narrative that places family near the center of their existence.


----------



## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 4, 2014)

Tsukiyomi said:


> In this instance there is no difference.  The person demanding proof lacks belief in that deity and likely will until that evidence is produced, that makes them an atheist.



Nope, it really does have a difference . I've seen christian demanding burden of proof from another christian to prove that god is something you must have faith, not reason .


----------



## scerpers (Aug 4, 2014)

atheists must be some of the most obnoxious people in america


----------



## Fiona (Aug 4, 2014)

Scerpers said:


> Stuck up atheists must be some of the most obnoxious people in america



Fixed that for you


----------



## Linkofone (Aug 4, 2014)

^ 

That is true, but so are a lot of stuck up people.


----------



## Totally not a cat (Aug 4, 2014)

Linkofone said:


> Those already exist.


There are idiots in pretty much every group of people, and we will continue to blame the flaws of those on the rest. That's just the way we roll. Oh well


----------



## Takahashi (Aug 4, 2014)

Totally not a cat said:


> There are idiots in pretty much every group of people, and we will continue to blame the flaws of those on the rest. That's just the way we roll. Oh well



True, Atheism is a simple lack of belief that doesn't have any central leadership or objectives. So those who call themselves Atheists don't automatically associate with other Atheists/Atheist groups.  

At the same time, I'm annoyed by the amount of people that rally in these big groups with such clear solidarity, and then call for individual separation of responsibility in the face of scrutiny.


----------



## Savior (Aug 4, 2014)

2% atheist? Seems like 90% of Internet Americans are Atheist.


----------



## Linkofone (Aug 4, 2014)

Totally not a cat said:


> There are idiots in pretty much every group of people, and we will continue to blame the flaws of those on the rest. That's just the way we roll. Oh well



Exacta. 

I mean exactly.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Aug 4, 2014)

Rescuebear said:


> Atheism by definition is very specific.
> To believe undoubtedly that there is no higher power even though such a thing can never be proven is why i'm not an Atheist.
> 
> The way my logic on this is that such a thing can never be proven or dis-proven. I personally don't believe there is a god or higher power, but I don't assert that there defiantly is no god because I cannot prove it.
> ...



sigh...

Believing that a deity doesn't exist isn't the same as claiming to know one doesn't. An atheist is simply one that does not believe in god, the reasons for that being specific to each individual. People still have the misconception, particularly in the United States, that atheism is about knowing for certain god doesn't exist. It is not. It's simply not believing in one.


----------



## Joakim3 (Aug 4, 2014)

Tsukiyomi said:


> Few atheists assert with absolute certainty that they know a god doesn't exist.
> 
> The most definition most atheists fall under goes more like this:
> 
> ...



Essentially this in a nutshell...

I'd love for there to a be a place where you live forever where clouds are made out of cotton candy, and there a beautiful woman playing harps. But seeing no one has presented me (or anyone for else for that matter) with even the slightest evidence...

I'm going to stick with the more realistic version in which I die and thats that


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Aug 4, 2014)

Joakim3 said:


> Essentially this in a nutshell...
> 
> I'd love for there to a be a place where you live forever where clouds are made out of cotton candy, and there a beautiful woman playing harps. But seeing no one has presented me (or anyone for else for that matter) with even the slightest evidence...
> 
> I'm going to stick with the more realistic version in which I die and thats that



To be fair heaven and hell would have little difference with the word forever involved.


----------



## Enclave (Aug 4, 2014)

Rescuebear said:


> Atheism by definition is very specific.
> To believe undoubtedly that there is no higher power even though such a thing can never be proven is why i'm not an Atheist.
> 
> The way my logic on this is that such a thing can never be proven or dis-proven. I personally don't believe there is a god or higher power, but I don't assert that there defiantly is no god because I cannot prove it.
> ...



You just have to not believe in a god or gods.  It's a very simple definition.  For instance, I don't believe in unicorns.  That said, if somebody was able to prove to me that unicorns actually do exist?  I'd be more than willing to rethink my belief regarding them.


----------



## ~Greed~ (Aug 5, 2014)

These days I don't think most people here have any problem with atheists. I mean some old people do, but that's about it.


----------



## IchLiebe (Aug 5, 2014)

Yea I am quite religious now but in highschool I didn't have the knowledge I do know.

I see all religions as having some basis of truth just misinterpreted as something Godly when in fact it was or wasn't. 

I believe that there is an ultimate being, but then again how would I define that being. Would his power have to be inherent, but that would mean he was created.

I would define God as someone with amazingly advanced technology and intelligence with an instinct of survival no matter what the cost of which due to has achieved immortality or a vastly extended life span for it or its species. There had to have been multiple Gods as most religions teach which means they were just a part of a civilization(no matter how minimal it seems) which would have to have some sort of hierarchy.  And it seems that these Gods are prone to not agree at times.


Im not a crazy religious nut, just have a different way of thinking about things, I see civilization as a whole.

The best I can hope for out of my Gods is that they don't consider us a threat or nuisance and decide to exterminate us.

I don't know what I would call my religion but not Atheist.


----------



## Taco (Aug 5, 2014)

Why don't they try being atheists in Saudi Arabia


----------



## Krippy (Aug 5, 2014)

Atheists a shit


----------



## Ae (Aug 5, 2014)

Blue said:


> Vocal atheists are basically Satanists, retards who want attention.



Never change Blue


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Aug 5, 2014)

~Greed~ said:


> These days I don't think most people here have any problem with atheists. I mean some old people do, but that's about it.



In the Southeastern U.S., they are generally not well-received either. Atheist is still used as a pejorative in politics here.


----------



## IchLiebe (Aug 5, 2014)

People there will demonize the fuck out of any Atheist.


----------



## Rescuebear (Aug 5, 2014)

Tsukiyomi said:


> Few atheists assert with absolute certainty that they know a god doesn't exist.
> 
> The most definition most atheists fall under goes more like this:
> 
> ...



Then i wouldn't consider them Atheist, at least not by my own understanding. They are like me, agnostic.

I've met atheists and while I do personally think in the end they are right, Science doesn't work that way. It works by definitive proof. 

How many times have we thought we knew something because we had 99% of the information, only to have those beliefs flipped on there head by that last 1%. That is why I will always leave open the possibly simply because we can never know for sure.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Aug 6, 2014)

Rescuebear said:


> Then i wouldn't consider them Atheist, at least not by my own understanding. They are like me, agnostic.
> 
> I've met atheists and while I do personally think in the end they are right, Science doesn't work that way. It works by definitive proof.
> 
> How many times have we thought we knew something because we had 99% of the information, only to have those beliefs flipped on there head by that last 1%. That is why I will always leave open the possibly simply because we can never know for sure.



Agnostic is not mutually exclusive to theism or atheism. 

That's the whole point of being an agnostic atheist...No one is honestly going to make the assertion that they know for certain whether or not deities exist, but that doesn't mean they will personally believe in them. 

Basically, if met with the assertion that a particular god is real, evidence is required to prove that deity's existence. If there is a failure to produce that evidence then no one has any obligation to believe those claims.


----------



## Enclave (Aug 6, 2014)

Rescuebear said:


> Then i wouldn't consider them Atheist, at least not by my own understanding. They are like me, agnostic.
> 
> I've met atheists and while I do personally think in the end they are right, Science doesn't work that way. It works by definitive proof.
> 
> How many times have we thought we knew something because we had 99% of the information, only to have those beliefs flipped on there head by that last 1%. That is why I will always leave open the possibly simply because we can never know for sure.



Seriously, all that you need to be an atheist is not believing in some deity/deities.  No more, no less.  You don't require the same kind of faith in your lack of belief that somebody needs in their beliefs.

I don't require irrefutable proof to not believe something.  I already pointed this out with my unicorn example earlier.



> a?the?ist
> ˈāTHēˌist/Submit
> noun
> a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.
> ...



See?  Just a lack of belief.


----------



## Rescuebear (Aug 6, 2014)

Ok, let me think on that for a bit.


----------



## Pilaf (Aug 6, 2014)

_ 2% of US adults say they are atheists_

Probably because they ignorantly assume that word means something negative or extremist, when it only means "lack of belief in gods." I suspect that if you had some means of honestly plying everyone's true feelings you'd find 30% or more of the total population technically qualify.


----------



## navy (Aug 6, 2014)

I wonder how many people have yet to admit they are atheist/agnostic publicly?


----------



## Pilaf (Aug 6, 2014)

navy said:


> I wonder how many people have yet to admit they are atheist/agnostic publicly?



Where I'm from, having too many people know that would make my life extremely inconvenient. Some of my friends in certain social circles know it. There's plenty of young, chill people in Tennessee and other Southern states who just don't buy what their parents' church is trying to push on them, but on the other hand we don't exactly want that shit getting out. Not because we're ashamed or unsure of our decision but because we don't want to have to be on the defensive every single day. The whole Jesus culture just permeates everything down here, especially in small rural communities like the one I live and work in. It's not so much that I don't think I could hold my own as a public atheist, it's just that I really don't have the time or energy for that. People just proselytize hardcore, completely unsolicited, as it is - and they only _suspect_ I'm not religious. It's bad enough I don't kneel at the altar of Ronald Reagan, and he only occupies a slightly lower platform than Jesus around here. Being a vocal, outed Atheist in my home town would be..yeah. I have enough bullshit to put up with everyday at work as it is without having six or seven people come up to me every day and trying to "save" me.


----------



## WraithX959 (Aug 6, 2014)

Yeah, **** Atheists. They are as annoying as Vegans and PETA members.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Aug 6, 2014)

navy said:


> I wonder how many people have yet to admit they are atheist/agnostic publicly?



There are probably a lot depending on where we're talking about. The culture Pilaf and I generally hail from, you're probably going to have more that try to keep it secret than in places like the Northeast. Particularly, much like Pilaf stated, that when a person simply starts expressing doubt about their religion, that they get bombarded with attempts to re-establish it. In evangelical circles especially, on the basis of "saving" them. If not that, outright hostility. 

Generally, at least accounting for United States, it's just the carryover from how Catholic-dominated Europe in old times would characterize and treat nonbelievers, which atheists fall under. Also how later Puritans, whom were even radical by standards of the past, would treat anyone that was considered not of genuine faith. They can't kill them or imprison them anymore, so the only thing left is that character assassination.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Aug 6, 2014)

Texas has the most hilariously contradictory law regarding this period



> *No religious test shall ever be required* as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, *provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being*.



So in other words, no religious test, beyond a test of acknowledging the non-rational belief in the existence of a supreme relgious deity.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Aug 6, 2014)

That's amazing. Maryland has one just like that:



			
				Maryland said:
			
		

> That no religious test ought ever to be required as a qualification for any office of profit or trust in this State, other than a declaration of belief in the existence of God; nor shall the Legislature prescribe any other oath of office than the oath prescribed by this Constitution.



Much of the South has such clauses too:



			
				North Carolina said:
			
		

> The following persons shall be disqualified for office:
> 
> First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God.





			
				Arkansas said:
			
		

> No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office in the civil departments of this State, nor be competent to testify as a witness in any Court





			
				Mississippi said:
			
		

> No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office in this State.





			
				South Carolina said:
			
		

> No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office under this Constitution.





			
				Tennessee said:
			
		

> No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this state.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Aug 6, 2014)

What the fuck does believing in Heaven and Hell have to do with good governance ?

Like seriously ?


----------



## Zaru (Aug 6, 2014)

That's what happens when you let highly religious people anywhere near the legislative process.


----------



## Blue (Aug 6, 2014)

Atheist SHOULD be used as a pejorative in politics. The politically correct term for someone who doesn't subscribe to religion is "nonreligious".

Atheist, in the popular vernacular, (ignoring Kaiba's ridiculous delusions about babies born without any beliefs being atheist) is basically proclaiming "I believe religious people are wrong" and considering religious people are still 40% of the entire electorate in _Europe_, never mind America, you have to be a hostile retard to think calling yourself that is a good idea.


----------



## Linkofone (Aug 6, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> People there will demonize the fuck out of any Atheist.



Seeing how people demonize the fuck out of religious people ... It isn't strange to me that people will demonize Atheists.

All sides can "play the victim".


----------



## Zaru (Aug 6, 2014)

Blue said:


> Atheist SHOULD be used as a pejorative in politics. The politically correct term for someone who doesn't subscribe to religion is "nonreligious".
> 
> Atheist, in the popular vernacular, (ignoring Kaiba's ridiculous delusions about babies born without any beliefs being atheist) is basically proclaiming "I believe religious people are wrong" and considering religious people are still 40% of the entire electorate in _Europe_, never mind America, you have to be a hostile retard to think calling yourself that is a good idea.



Democrats and Republicans generally believe the other half of the population is wrong on almost everything, atheists just do that for religion in particular.


----------



## ~Greed~ (Aug 6, 2014)

Saishin said:


> Didn't know atheists in America had a hard life,I mean I thought that say to someone that you're an atheist or whatsover wasn't a problem  atheists in the closet? this is curious



I don't know of any athiests who have led a hard life because they are athiest.



Saishin said:


> Btw is there in the US constitution an article that clearly state the separation between state and church?



Yes.



Seto Kaiba said:


> In the Southeastern U.S., they are generally not well-received either. Atheist is still used as a pejorative in politics here.



Depends on what you consider the "south". Here in VA generally nobody outside of the elderly or complete religious nuts give a single fuck.

My brother's girlfriend is an athiest and I only know of one person who had ever bothered her, and she fell into the "complete religious nut" I talked about above. 

Even my stepdad who's religious and border-lining on tea-partier doesn't really care.



San Juan Wolf said:


> What the fuck does believing in Heaven and Hell have to do with good governance ?
> 
> Like seriously ?



Nothing. State Laws like those could and should be contested.


----------



## Mael (Aug 6, 2014)

The SCOTUS could easily contest them, but oh Lord the MUH STAET RITES crowd would b'awwww to much annoyance.


----------



## ~Greed~ (Aug 6, 2014)

I'm for state rights but that is something that blatantly goes directly against the constitution.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Aug 6, 2014)

Blue said:


> Atheist SHOULD be used as a pejorative in politics. The politically correct term for someone who doesn't subscribe to religion is "nonreligious".
> 
> Atheist, in the popular vernacular, (ignoring Kaiba's ridiculous delusions about babies born without any beliefs being atheist) is basically proclaiming "I believe religious people are wrong" and considering religious people are still 40% of the entire electorate in _Europe_, never mind America, you have to be a hostile retard to think calling yourself that is a good idea.



No, nonreligious doesn't mean atheist, nor does atheist mean nonreligious. A nonreligious individual can still believe in the concept of a deity, and an atheist can still ascribe to a religion. There ARE atheistic Buddhists if you didn't know. Also, since you seem to have missed this basic fact, a number of Founding Fathers were deists, not theists. How do you manage to get this so wrong?

I wasn't the one that made that claim. Also you are still spouting a lot of ignorance on this matter. Saying you're an atheist is proclaiming "I don't believe in a god of any kind" and nothing more. Your entire rationale is idiotic on its face as is, as that can be applied to any number of groups and if we ever followed it, we would have not gotten anywhere as a country. The fact that one cannot be openly atheist, and just on that alone disqualified from holding office is a problem.


----------



## Sanity Check (Aug 6, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> There ARE atheistic Buddhists if you didn't know.



I have seen buddhists claim Jesus Christ is a buddhist.

The concept of a Jesus Christ believing, atheist, buddhist might make sense to you.

The concept of a buddhist who believes in supernatural phenomena like souls, spirits, reincarnation, past lives and a nirvana utopian existence similar to heaven.  Labeling that "atheistic" might make sense to you.

But from a rational perspective, it may not be all that rational.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Aug 6, 2014)

"Atheistic State Deity Worshipers"


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## Sunrider (Aug 6, 2014)

Believing in Jesus Christ, so long as you don't regard him as the son of god, doesn't invalidate one's atheism. 

Neither does Buddhism, as it simply follows a set of doctrines, but is nontheistic. 

(the metaphysical/supernatural aspects of buddhism are up for debate I guess.


----------



## Pilaf (Aug 6, 2014)

WraithX959 said:


> Yeah, **** Atheists. They are as annoying as Vegans and PETA members.



Yeah, no. That hasn't been my experience at all. Usually what happens is someone comes up to me and asks me where I go to church, which makes me uncomfortable if it's a co-worker or somebody I have to be around a lot, so I try to smooth out and redirect their attention, but they keep pressing with more questions, asking me if I accept Jesus etc. When they finally get the truth they then lecture me for the rest of the night, which is probably the most awkward and annoying fucking thing ever, so in my particular case it's the hardcore Christian that's acting like an annoying activist. I'm almost always on the defensive.


----------



## Krory (Aug 6, 2014)

I don't like to identify as atheist because I'm ashamed of every other atheist I've known.


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## Linkofone (Aug 6, 2014)

> Yeah, no. That hasn't been my experience at all. Usually what happens is someone comes up to me and asks me where I go to church, which makes me uncomfortable if it's a co-worker or somebody I have to be around a lot, so I try to smooth out and redirect their attention, but they keep pressing with more questions, asking me if I accept Jesus etc. When they finally get the truth they then lecture me for the rest of the night, which is probably the most awkward and annoying fucking thing ever, so in my particular case it's the hardcore Christian that's acting like an annoying activist. I'm almost always on the defensive.



Again based on personal experiences. Both sides have shitty people.


----------



## IchLiebe (Aug 6, 2014)

Children have a purpose based thought process.


----------



## ~Greed~ (Aug 6, 2014)

Linkofone said:


> Again based on personal experiences. Both sides have shitty people.



Yep.

Some Atheists are just are annoying as some of the religious nuts.


----------



## Malicious Friday (Aug 6, 2014)

I've told people I don't believe in God, including family. I have to explain to my mom why I don't, and even though she KNOWS I don't like religion, she would still say "Well God is still watching over you" or some bullshit ass variation. I it bothers me how that shit just goes above her heads. 
Then, at Thanksgiving, she tried to have me "bless" the food and I just sat there and she got mad at me because I don't want to do that. Like wtf. 

Other friends are okay with it, some don't. I once had this argument with my friend's roommate about religion and everything I say just simply, like with my mother, goes above his head. 

Shit pisses me off.



I can admit that when I see people going to or coming from church, I laugh at them internally. "Silly people," is what goes through my mind. But I'm not one of those who would outright bash people for believing in religion.


----------



## Mizura (Aug 7, 2014)

I must say I'm still surprised that there's still such a stigma in the U.S.

I mean, I've never felt the need to openly affirm my non-belief in any deity. Since atheism isn't a religion, the need for some atheists to group up feels weird to me. It's like people who don't eat potatoes grouping up.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Aug 7, 2014)

Mizura said:


> I must say I'm still surprised that there's still such a stigma in the U.S.
> 
> I mean, I've never felt the need to openly affirm my non-belief in any deity. Since atheism isn't a religion, the need for some atheists to group up feels weird to me. It's like people who don't eat potatoes grouping up.


Someone has to put a foot forward somewhere right?


----------



## hcheng02 (Aug 7, 2014)

Mizura said:


> I must say I'm still surprised that there's still such a stigma in the U.S.
> 
> I mean, I've never felt the need to openly affirm my non-belief in any deity. Since atheism isn't a religion, the need for some atheists to group up feels weird to me. It's like people who don't eat potatoes grouping up.



Well you're Chinese, and the Chinese have always been a bit odd regarding religious beliefs. Chinese society is rather agnostic, and two of the major streams of Chinese thought are openly agnostic/indifferent to the matter of gods (Buddhism and Confucianism). I don't think the Chinese have anything like the monotheistic faiths that proscribe certain days for regular worship and such - you just have a family shrine you take care of for your ancestors and maybe visit the temple for special occasions. I mean, people are still trying to figure out whether or not to group Confucianism as a religion or not. Not to mention the fact that as a technically Communist country, the Chinese government doesn't really encourage religion either.


----------



## Sanity Check (Aug 7, 2014)

Sunrider said:


> Believing in Jesus Christ, so long as you don't regard him as the son of god, doesn't invalidate one's atheism.
> 
> *Neither does Buddhism, as it simply follows a set of doctrines, but is nontheistic*.
> 
> (the metaphysical/supernatural aspects of buddhism are up for debate I guess.



Some say buddhism is non-theistic.  Including this wiki page about non-theistic religions:  

If you read it, you might notice this part:



> *Existence of gods*
> See also: God in Buddhism
> 
> *The Buddha said that devas (translated as "gods") do exist*, but they were regarded as still being trapped in samsara,[3] and are not necessarily wiser than us. In fact, the Buddha is often portrayed as a teacher of the gods,[4] and superior to them.[5]



It says: buddhists believe in gods / deities.

The definition of theism:



> the?ism
> ˈTHēˌizəm/
> 
> *belief in the existence of a god or gods*, especially belief in one god as creator of the universe, intervening in it and sustaining a personal relation to his creatures.



One might contend.

(1)  Buddhists believe in gods.
(2)  Theism is belief in gods.
(3)  Buddhism is a theistic religion.

.


----------



## Enclave (Aug 7, 2014)

Mizura said:


> I must say I'm still surprised that there's still such a stigma in the U.S.
> 
> I mean, I've never felt the need to openly affirm my non-belief in any deity. Since atheism isn't a religion, the need for some atheists to group up feels weird to me. It's like people who don't eat potatoes grouping up.



While I haven't joined any free thinkers society or anything?  Atheists do need to group up to some extent.  It's much easier to get people to accept you when you're part of a group rather than an individual.


----------



## Linkofone (Aug 7, 2014)

~Greed~ said:


> Yep.
> 
> Some Atheists are just are annoying as some of the religious nuts.



Totally. Can't just judge a whole group because some of the group are assholes.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Aug 7, 2014)

~Greed~ said:


> Yep.
> 
> Some Atheists are just are annoying as some of the religious nuts.



It's almost like being an asshole has nothing to do with your religion or something.


----------



## Linkofone (Aug 7, 2014)

What religion?


----------



## Suit (Aug 7, 2014)

Mizura said:


> I must say I'm still surprised that there's still such a stigma in the U.S.
> 
> I mean, I've never felt the need to openly affirm my non-belief in any deity. Since atheism isn't a religion, the need for some atheists to group up feels weird to me. It's like people who don't eat potatoes grouping up.



I'm sure that if people who didn't eat potatoes were as heavily discriminated against and ostracized as atheists are, they actually _would_ indeed group up, if for no other reason than comfort. I don't need other atheists around me for support or friendship, but then again the vast majority of people my age have no problem with my lack of belief.

There are also Secular Humanists that are atheists that "group up" because of shared ideas of morality, although I don't think that's the group the article is referring to.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Aug 7, 2014)

Linkofone said:


> What religion?



Any, that was the point I was trying to make


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## EJ (Aug 7, 2014)

Im an atheist and I don't see how in the us I'm heavily discriminated against...


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## Tsukiyomi (Aug 7, 2014)

Talia said:


> Im an atheist and I don't see how in the us I'm heavily discriminated against...



Are you open about your atheism and what part of the country do you live in?

As was pointed out above there are places in the country with laws on the books forbidding atheists to hold public office.


----------



## Suit (Aug 7, 2014)

Talia said:


> Im an atheist and I don't see how in the us I'm heavily discriminated against...



Depends on where you live. Being an atheist in a rural southern area is second only to being in the middle east in terms of dangerous residence.


----------



## EJ (Aug 7, 2014)

I find that a lot of times, other atheist act snobbish with their beliefs, and downplay other religions as if people who believe them are insane or out of their head. When they contribute this kind of behavior, they scratch their heads when they get wrongfully threatened by others, or made fun of and take it as 'discrimination'. 

There are definitely cases, but I don't find any of it effecting my life style or what kind of person I am. If the topic comes up, I'll talk about being agnostic/atheist but I found it's best to respect other people's beliefs and for the most part you won't run into any problems. 

Like there are Atheist that cry and whine about pointless stuff like

"WAAAAH! WAAAAH! He said if I don't change my ways I'll burn in hell!" towards another person that has no value within their life. Though I understand how difficult it can to a child that doesn't believe in God but is forced to attend church every Sunday. I find that screwed up.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Aug 7, 2014)

Talia said:


> I find that a lot of times, other atheist act snobbish with their beliefs, and downplay other religions as if people who believe them are insane or out of their head. When they contribute this kind of behavior, they scratch their heads when they get wrongfully threatened by others, or made fun of and take it as 'discrimination'.
> 
> There are definitely cases, but I don't find any of it effecting my life style or what kind of person I am. If the topic comes up, I'll talk about being agnostic/atheist but I found it's best to respect other people's beliefs and for the most part you won't run into any problems.
> 
> ...



I'd still like an answer.  Are you open about your atheism and what part of the country do you live in?

I've had more than a few people, when I tell them I'm an atheist get visibly upset by that simple fact.  They assume that my lack of belief in a deity means I have no moral compass, that I'm a nihilist and I believe in nothing.

Many theists are taught to believe "everything good comes from my god", so they assume anyone without a god cannot be good.


----------



## EJ (Aug 7, 2014)

> If the topic comes up, I'll talk about being agnostic/atheist but I found it's best to respect other people's beliefs and for the most part you won't run into any problems.



Yes, I did answer your question. 

I'm not vocal about me being an atheist/agnostic unless it's brought up by someone. I also make it clear I respect their beliefs. When I was younger this wasn't the case, I was completely disrespectful on my approach towards people that had a religion they believed in. 

I don't see a point in expressing my atheism since I don't see how that's relevant to a lot of people and I don't see a reason to discuss it a lot of times. I'm sure it would be annoying hearing. The same could be said towards a religious person that expressed their beliefs. 

I don't see how someone "being visibly" distraught effects your life so much to the point you have to cry about discrimination.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Aug 7, 2014)

Honestly, I find few things more presumptuous than a claim to holding absolute, universal truth. I in contrast, have not met many atheists that fit that...more than anything else, those that believe their religion is the answer and has the answers and that I or any nonbeliever are less virtuous of an individual simply for not believing in that religion. For better or worse, I do understand that only speaks to the nature of the individual than whatever group they associate with as a whole, even if significant groups of people in that religion hold similar attitudes. At the same time I don't think that means the faith itself is immune to criticism. 

An important fact remains that Christianity specifically is the major religion in the United States, and within the denominations there are many organizations structured in a way which allow people to be given significant authority over others, and even control and influence aspects of many of their lives. Even how they see certain matters too, of course. 

When a person has power, they seek to use it, and in doing so always teeter on edge of abusing that power; unfortunately many fall over that edge and abuse it, and fall into the habit of abusing it. Invoking divinity has shown to be a very easy way of doing that but of course isn't the only way.


----------



## EJ (Aug 7, 2014)

I think mostly atheist are vocal on the internet since this is where people want to express their beliefs and know they can say whatever they want and get away with it.

There are plenty of atheist that just aren't vocal about their beliefs irl however. 


And yes, those atheist are present. Look at the Amazing Atheist and his followers haha. He makes videos where he constantly makes fun of religion and makes it seem as if people who believe in religion are idiots.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Aug 7, 2014)

Talia said:


> I think mostly atheist are vocal on the internet since this is where people want to express their beliefs and know they can say whatever they want and get away with it.
> 
> There are plenty of atheist that just aren't vocal about their beliefs irl however.
> 
> ...



Isn't all that pretty tame to the contrast?


----------



## EJ (Aug 7, 2014)

I see what you mean,

but do you sort of think that _specific_ people represent their beliefs in a rude manner due to fear or insecurities?


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Aug 7, 2014)

Talia said:


> I see what you mean,
> 
> but do you sort of think that _specific_ people represent their beliefs in a rude manner due to fear or insecurities?



I don't think it has to due with fear or insecurity for the most part. It's just a popular method to do with age of Youtube. Being loud about it gets more attention, you know like the angry video game reviewer schtick. Or Fox News.


----------



## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 7, 2014)

Talia said:


> I find that a lot of times, other atheist act snobbish with their beliefs, and downplay other religions as if people who believe them are insane or out of their head. When they contribute this kind of behavior, they scratch their heads when they get wrongfully threatened by others, or made fun of and take it as 'discrimination'.
> 
> There are definitely cases, but I don't find any of it effecting my life style or what kind of person I am. If the topic comes up, I'll talk about being agnostic/atheist but I found it's best to respect other people's beliefs and for the most part you won't run into any problems.
> 
> ...



Happened to me until I was 13-14 and I've been atheist since 9 . Fucking father .


----------



## Linkofone (Aug 7, 2014)

TheRooMan said:


> Depends on where you live. Being an *atheist in a rural southern area* is second only to being in the middle east in terms of dangerous residence.



*Not if you're white*. You're still heavily discriminated if you are of color, even if you are a Christian. 



San Juan Wolf said:


> Any, that was the point I was trying to make



I think you're talking about Christian religions. Specific Christian religions.


----------



## brolmes (Aug 7, 2014)

oh my fucking god why can't people just fuck off and keep their shit to theirself

oh look at me i don't believe in jesus, please everyone look at the wristbands we all wear and acknowledge how sooo not in a religion we are, omg y u victimize meh, these are just my beliefs.. i mean my lack of beliefs

oh man i really don't think santa exists and i am so fucking tired of everybody not giving a fuck about that and paying no attention to my important opinions at all.. every time i bring it up people just act like i'm an idiot and i'm sick of it

oh my goodness i have a vagina and i refuse to shave it for the white man, are you taking notes, i can get you a pen if you don't have one as long as its not a phallic looking pen

oh holy christ i would love to jerk off while sucking every dick in this room until my gums bleed from the suction, somebody please get a camera and record me doing it so we have a historical record of my inner feelings.. what do you mean you don't care? pls stop hating, i'll force you to watch at gunpoint if i have to


----------



## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 7, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> oh my fucking god why can't people just fuck off and keep their shit to theirself
> 
> oh look at me i don't believe in jesus, please everyone look at the wristbands we all wear and acknowledge how sooo not in a religion we are, omg y u victimize meh, these are just my beliefs.. i mean my lack of beliefs
> 
> ...



You really don't understand, do you ? My mom almost lost her job for being an atheist, tell me how is that " victmize " ?


----------



## LesExit (Aug 7, 2014)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> You really don't understand, do you ? My mom almost lost her job for being an atheist, tell me how is that " victmize " ?


I refuse to believe they aren't trolling .___.


----------



## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 7, 2014)

LesExit said:


> I refuse to believe they aren't trolling .___.



Right ? I mean, people getting beaten for being gay is " victmize " apparently . 

I've been hostilized lots of times for being an atheist, most recently I didn't pray at the catholic school(Nope, they don't teach creationism nor anything like that) and the nun asked why I didn't pray and I said " I'm an atheist " and she told me to stop doing proselytism .


----------



## LesExit (Aug 7, 2014)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Right ? I mean, people getting beaten for being gay is " victmize " apparently .
> 
> I've been hostilized lots of times for being an atheist, most recently I didn't pray at the catholic school(Nope, they don't teach creationism nor anything like that) and the nun asked why I didn't pray and I said " I'm an atheist " and she told me to stop doing proselytism .


Wait...victimizing the religious people?

In what way is that trying to convert anyone ?
I've never really dealt with anyone being hostile, parent don't really give a crap about religion, and I Connecticut(northeast) Once when I've told family members I don't believe in God did I feel that way. My uncle was like, "well I'll be laughing when you're in hell"...and I'm just like.... wut?


----------



## Enclave (Aug 7, 2014)

LesExit said:


> Wait...victimizing the religious people?
> 
> In what way is that trying to convert anyone ?
> I've never really dealt with anyone being hostile, parent don't really give a crap about religion, and I Connecticut(northeast) Once when I've told family members I don't believe in God did I feel that way. My uncle was like, "well I'll be laughing when you're in hell"...and I'm just like.... wut?



At which point you call him out on basically wishing eternal torture on you and that he's a terrible Christian and thus will be right there with you if he's right since he's not following the teachings of his Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

At least my mom worries that I'm going to go to Hell and doesn't want me to.  She never has said anything like she'll be laughing when I'm in Hell.  She wants me to be a Christian specifically because she doesn't want somebody she loves to be subjected to Hell.


----------



## Linkofone (Aug 7, 2014)

> "well I'll be laughing when you're in hell"



I had an uncle like that ... it sounds like a joke ... a really really terrible joke that shouldn't have been told.


----------



## Suit (Aug 7, 2014)

Linkofone said:


> *Not if you're white*. You're still heavily discriminated if you are of color, even if you are a Christian.
> 
> 
> 
> I think you're talking about Christian religions. Specific Christian religions.



Sorry, but my personal experience here totally disagrees with your statement. Before I was an atheist, I knew a few atheists at my school who were bullied far worse than any person "of color" (none of which were ever actually bullied; funny that), even though whites were a majority. It was so bad that I didn't even stand up for them (though they were sort of my friends) because at the time, I couldn't afford the risk of being considered an atheist by my other friends.



Mr. Black Leg said:


> You really don't understand, do you ? My mom almost lost her job for being an atheist, tell me how is that " victmize " ?



Exactly. Stuff like this is an actual problem for atheists while not at all for the religious. Some may just be looking for attention, but turning a blind eye to the clear discrimination that the nonreligious still suffer from will not help future equality at all. That jackass that you were replying to has no concept of real-world occurrences obviously, and should get out of the basement before speaking about anything happening in the real world.


----------



## EJ (Aug 7, 2014)

It's funny, you hear more about kids being picked on due to their ethnicity or sexual orientation in certain schools rather than what they believed in. I'm _really _curious as to what county/state you grew up in.


----------



## Suit (Aug 7, 2014)

Talia said:


> It's funny, you hear more about kids being picked on due to their ethnicity or sexual orientation in certain schools rather than what they believed in. I'm _really _curious as to what county/state you grew up in.



Funny how you didn't address that question when asked yourself. I grew up in Louisiana. Never saw racial or ethnic bullying. Not once, and there was a damn good enough set up for it to happen (majority of white students, most being hicks) yet it was a small group of atheists that were the only kids ever picked on. It never got extreme, or even physical really, but there was lots of name-calling and putting-down at them.


----------



## EJ (Aug 7, 2014)

Yeah, you grew up in Louisiana and saw no type of bullying, homophobia or racism towards minorities but saw atheist being bullied all the time...

Ok man


 just have a hard time believing you.


----------



## Narcissus (Aug 7, 2014)

Talia said:


> It's funny, you hear more about kids being picked on due to their ethnicity or sexual orientation in certain schools rather than what they believed in. I'm _really _curious as to what county/state you grew up in.



Because you don't hear more about it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. There are cases of atheists in high school being bullied, and even receiving death threats, for standing up for their beliefs.

Jessica Ahlquist lives in Cranston, Rhode Island. In 2012, she won a court case against her high school to remove a prayer banner. It resulted in death threats and a *State Representative* calling her an "evil little thing."

In North Carolina, there was a girl (Kalei Wilson) who just wanted to start an atheist club. Her school initially refused. Even after it was allowed, they received so many threats and so much bullying that she decided to shut the club down.



So yes... Atheists are bullied in school. Ignorance of it doesn't change that.


----------



## EJ (Aug 7, 2014)

Never in my post do I doubt it has happened, of course it has! 


I just think RooMan is making stuff up in order to support his argument.


----------



## brolmes (Aug 7, 2014)

lol roo man talking so much unbelievable horse shit as usual


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Aug 7, 2014)

Talia said:


> It's funny, you hear more about kids being picked on due to their ethnicity or sexual orientation in certain schools rather than what they believed in. I'm _really _curious as to what county/state you grew up in.



Do you not find it odd that many of the states that have laws in place that disqualify atheists from taking office are in the same region most people in this thread have cited where they faced the most significant mistreatment? I think you underestimate how seriously people take their religion, especially when combined with a socially conservative atmosphere. There's a hostile reaction to anything that may threaten to change the status quo, including nonbelief and skepticism of the religion, which to the religious atheism represents. Also the fact that heavy misconceptions are instilled almost from the start about what a nonbeliever and atheist specifically are, less virtuous individuals and the latter lacking in it entirely and being beyond saving as they have rejected God and his "grace" by not believing in him. 

That in itself is characterized as being arrogant and presumptuous. Because what would an atheist know about the universal truth, right? That is knowledge reserved only to their religion! Or rather, their specific denomination because all the answers are there. In general that explains the hostile attitude all around atheism can be met with, whether that results in milder forms of discrimination such as the U.S. or more extreme such as in the Middle East. The idea of living without the belief in god is very strange and even very threatening to a number of people.


----------



## Suit (Aug 7, 2014)

Talia said:


> Never in my post do I doubt it has happened, of course it has!
> 
> 
> I just think RooMan is making stuff up in order to support his argument.



Nope, it's true. Although I like how you pointed out homophobia, which I never said anything about. Do you always assume someone says something when they don't? Actually regarding that, there was one gay guy at school. He was actually kind of popular with the girls, and several guys, but there were a few guys who talked smack about him behind his back. Guess they weren't man enough to say anything to his face. Imagine that. 

If you want to believe I'm making it up, go ahead. I'm not trying to make a strong argument here. I'm just speaking the truth about real hardships that real atheists face. I'm in a different place now than I was (still not a preferable one), so I don't see the discrimination as much. I am also not downplaying race issues; however, this thread is not about race issues or even sexuality issues, but rather about being an atheist in the U.S.

Where do you get off coming into this thread downplaying people's personal experiences that relate to the subject being discussed by comparing them to subjects that are not being discussed? Seriously, what is wrong with you?


----------



## brolmes (Aug 7, 2014)

it's funny cause i was in a full-on christian school like 20 years ago before all this new age pc tolerance shit became mainstream and i never got any trouble for not believing any of the shit they taught us

know why? because i wasn't some retard who felt obligated to go around preaching to the whole world about what a special snowflake i was and how it was their duty to lovingly accept the fact that i think they're all insane idiots

it's a crazy idea i know.. not telling the people in your life a bunch of shit that will make them want to beat the shit out of you.. cause it's just sooooo important to express your unique and beautiful personality to people who do not give a darn and hate everything about it


----------



## SSJ4 (Aug 7, 2014)

Every time I look at what happens in US, I am glad I don't live there, EU for the win when it comes to things like these.

I am from Portugal where around most people do believe in the Christian god (I don't, I am an atheist btw), but most believe it in a very light way. The only impact religion has here are the holidays: we have some holidays based on religion alone, so they're just days to relax to most and not actually go to a church or anything.

Religious issues never crossed with actual political issues, other than when they decided to cut down in the number of holidays (they eliminated 4, 2 of which were religious ones), and probably some other little situation here and there no one really remembers about a week later.

School and religious affairs were always properly isolated from each other: no matter who you are, they will teach you actual scientific stuff in the sciences class, such as chemicals, physics, geology, evolution, cosmology, etc, however they generally have also an optional extra class, only for those who wish to sign in, purely on Christianity and religious stuff.

When it comes to government, courts, jobs, etc, I am yet to hear the word "god" in any of them. The separation of religion from state is enforced to its full.

And lastly, my mom believes firmly in god (and a couple of other stuff), unlike me, yet she let me make my choices in regards to religion ever since I was born. She believes in god, but never baptized me, she believes in god, but she wanted me to decide things out by myself and not try to influence me in any way, and the result is that I started to believe in god when I was a child (simply because everyone did too), then I grew out of it once I understood things better.
When I told her I didn't believe in the existence of a god, she asked me why, I told her why, and things kept being the same as they were from there on, nothing really changed, and we rarely discuss it, and when we do, it ends up being just a normal casual conversation, similar to any other normal conversation.

Having that said, every time I look into US and the actual things they are debating, along with "god" being mentioned everywhere, even when he shouldn't by the US constitution itself, along with the fact that atheists seem to be discriminated in way too many places, no wonder we see this sort of situations where atheists become active in fighting back in some way.


----------



## EJ (Aug 7, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> *





I'm not arguing about the political sense, but I have found it screwed up on how difficult it can be for an Atheist to be put in a political leadership position. I _rarely _ever hear these kinds of arguments is the astounding thing since it's a serious matter.

In this country I believe separation of church and state should be supported to it's fullest extent, but people want to elect who they want to elect. And that's the person that represents them more. 

It causes us that identify as atheist/agnostic to be overlooked, and there's no denying this. 

My main argument is from what I said earlier. I've known plenty of Atheist that have had sticks up their asses that act like complete snobs to religious people since they believe in God and preach it around. The same goes for super religious people I have known in my life. I know for a fact people can be prudish with their beliefs. I don't look at being told to "Shut the fuck up, I don't care" as discrimination. 

saying "Do you believe in God? You know you're going to hell if you don't right?"

and 

"HAH! You believe in God? YOU MIGHT AS WELL BELIEVE IN SANTA CLAUSE AS WELL!"

Is stuff I don't care to defend. I hope this clarifies where I'm coming from. 



TheRooMan said:


> If you want to believe I'm making it up, go ahead.



ok


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Aug 7, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> it's funny cause i was in a full-on christian school like 20 years ago before all this new age pc tolerance shit became mainstream and i never got any trouble for not believing any of the shit they taught us
> 
> know why? because i wasn't some retard who felt obligated to go around preaching to the whole world about what a special snowflake i was and how it was their duty to lovingly accept the fact that i think they're all insane idiots
> 
> it's a crazy idea i know.. not telling the people in your life a bunch of shit that will make them want to beat the shit out of you.. cause it's just sooooo important to express your unique and beautiful personality to people who do not give a darn and hate everything about it



That's nothing new. You do realize the entire concept of religious conversion, forced or voluntary, is based on that concept, right?

A core tenet of Christianity and Islam for example, is to convert others. To be in your face about what they believe in and why you should too. Some do it more tactfully than others, and some are outright hostile about it. Yet the selling point is that they are divinely chosen, and you could be too, so long as you ascribe to those particular denominational beliefs they hold. Otherwise, eternal suffering and damnation.


----------



## Suit (Aug 7, 2014)

Talia said:


> ok



I am very curious as to why you think I'm making this up? So tell me, why? You seem to have the same stances as me on everything judging by your post, so I want to know what makes me so untrustworthy.


----------



## EJ (Aug 7, 2014)

Thinking about it more, since this happened in your school and from _your _perspective, I can sort of see where you're coming from. It was just how you generalized.


----------



## Suit (Aug 7, 2014)

Talia said:


> Thinking about it more, since this happened in your school and from _your _perspective, I can sort of see where you're coming from. It was just how you generalized.



It _was_ my personal experience and my school. Maybe pointing out an exception to a general rule wasn't the most useful thing to post, but it was rather upsetting for someone to suggest that being white effectively makes you a god among men in the south. The guys and girls I was talking about were all white, so obviously what the other poster said isn't as true as s/he thinks.


----------



## EJ (Aug 7, 2014)

No of course not, everyone gets bullied and I know for a fact that if someone states they are atheist in certain schools, certain people will look at them as weird or outkast. 

But you know, I never went to a religious school. I'm sure if there was an atheist that was sort of vocal, they'd get hell for their beliefs.


----------



## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 7, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> it's funny cause i was in a full-on christian school like 20 years ago before all this new age pc tolerance shit became mainstream and i never got any trouble for not believing any of the shit they taught us
> 
> know why? because i wasn't some retard who felt obligated to go around preaching to the whole world about what a special snowflake i was and how it was their duty to lovingly accept the fact that i think they're all insane idiots
> 
> it's a crazy idea i know.. not telling the people in your life a bunch of shit that will make them want to beat the shit out of you.. cause it's just sooooo important to express your unique and beautiful personality to people who do not give a darn and hate everything about it



It never happened to you so, automatically it's not a problem/it does not exist ?


----------



## Suit (Aug 7, 2014)

Talia said:


> No of course not, everyone gets bullied and I know for a fact that if someone states they are atheist in certain schools, certain people will look at them as weird or outkast.
> 
> But you know, I never went to a religious school. I'm sure if there was an atheist that was sort of vocal, they'd get hell for their beliefs.



These guys actually weren't vocal, for what it's worth. They also didn't try to hide anything though, so when someone asked anything about religion, the truth would end up coming out, and when a few knew, everyone knew. For the record, I was at a public school and not a religious one.


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## EJ (Aug 7, 2014)

^Hopefully atheism is looked at more commonly in schools within the near future. I want a permanent thing of "respecting people's beliefs and not trying to debate them about it" but that's too much to ask for.


----------



## Zaru (Aug 7, 2014)

Respect is kinda hard to come by when one side thinks the other will burn in hell for eternity 
You'll have to settle with tolerance


----------



## EJ (Aug 7, 2014)

^But isn't that refuted by one side even acknowledging that they aren't the ones to condemn other?


----------



## Blue (Aug 7, 2014)

Zaru said:


> Respect is kinda hard to come by when one side thinks the other will burn in hell for eternity
> You'll have to settle with tolerance



Alternatively, when one side thinks the other are all morons who believe the world was created 6000 years ago


----------



## Suit (Aug 7, 2014)

Zaru said:


> Respect is kinda hard to come by when one side thinks the other will burn in hell for eternity
> You'll have to settle with tolerance



You would think that if they deeply, truly believed that, they would just be like "lol okay, burn for eternity. I don't like you anyway." They just have to tolerate us for this short time on Earth and they'll be able to gleefully watch atheists burn for eternity, but that's not enough I guess.


----------



## Narcissus (Aug 7, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> it's funny cause i was in a full-on christian school like 20 years ago before all this new age pc tolerance shit became mainstream and i never got any trouble for not believing any of the shit they taught us
> 
> know why? because i wasn't some retard who felt obligated to go around preaching to the whole world about what a special snowflake i was and how it was their duty to lovingly accept the fact that i think they're all insane idiots
> 
> it's a crazy idea i know.. not telling the people in your life a bunch of shit that will make them want to beat the shit out of you.. cause it's just sooooo important to express your unique and beautiful personality to people who do not give a darn and hate everything about it



What idiocy.

First, and most importantly, no one should have to hide any aspect of themselves in fear of retaliation.

"not telling the people in your life a bunch of shit that will make them want to beat the shit out of you." 
Amazing that you are portraying the victims as the ones in the wrong, and not the people who want to commit violence.

You are generalizing, and they shouldn't have to keep quiet anyway. There are numerous reasons why someone could voice their doubts.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Aug 7, 2014)

Blue said:


> Alternatively, when one side thinks the other are all morons who believe the world was created 6000 years ago



Believing it personally is one thing, trying to enforce that among other religious beliefs in the educational curriculum when we know everything points to them being untrue is another.


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## Zaru (Aug 7, 2014)

Blue said:


> Alternatively, when one side thinks the other are all morons who believe the world was created 6000 years ago



Most of the population considers a large part of the population morons

I mean, statistically, they're right, because a large part of the population IS filled with morons

But compared to being fine with someone getting a pretty damn long time of maximum suffering, that's pretty tame


----------



## brolmes (Aug 7, 2014)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> It never happened to you so, automatically it's not a problem/it does not exist ?



not what i said at all

what i said was your mother's an idiot if she desperately had to tell her boss she thought he was a delusional nutjob


----------



## Suit (Aug 7, 2014)

Narcissus said:


> What idiocy.
> 
> First, and most importantly, no one should have to hide any aspect of themselves in fear of retaliation.
> 
> ...



As much as I think no one should have to restrain their opinion, sometimes doing so is the best thing to do. Morals and laws do not matter in the least if there is nothing to be gained. If you are an atheist in a christian school, the smart thing to do is keep your beliefs to yourself. You're not being a hero to anybody by doing so, however, you _are_ preventing unnecessary conflict. School doesn't last forever anyway, and the outside world is much more tolerant in general.

I'm not saying one is wrong for fighting the power, but caution should be taken. You wouldn't speak out against murder when a psycho has you at gunpoint now would you? Even if it is noble, it's not helping in that situation. Take the steps needed to leave the situation in good condition so that you can fight injustices in more practical ways in the future.

Not condemning victims, I'm just saying to be smart about your decisions even when you're in the right.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Aug 7, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> not what i said at all
> 
> what i said was your mother's an idiot if she desperately had to tell her boss she thought he was a delusional nutjob



And that isn't what he said. He stated his mother was open about being atheist. That's not the same as calling a person a delusional nutjob at all, you know that.


----------



## EJ (Aug 7, 2014)

Rooman, that was a terrible example to use but I get what you're trying to say. 

There are people that have talked people out of killing them by speaking out against murder.


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## Suit (Aug 7, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> not what i said at all
> 
> what i said was your mother's an idiot if she desperately had to tell her boss she thought he was a delusional nutjob



1) Doubt she called her boss a nutjob.
2) You're making a _really_ agenda-driven assumption about why/how her boss found out.


----------



## Suit (Aug 7, 2014)

Talia said:


> Rooman, that was a terrible example to use but I get what you're trying to say.
> 
> There are people that have talked people out of killing them by speaking out against murder.



Here's a better one: If every single person around you is religious, why admit to being an atheist at all considering it will probably lead to absolutely nothing good and everything bad?


----------



## Narcissus (Aug 7, 2014)

TheRooMan said:


> If you are an atheist in a christian school, the smart thing to do is keep your beliefs to yourself. You're not being a hero to anybody by doing so, however, you _are_ preventing unnecessary conflict.


It has nothing to do with heroism, and it isn't always the case that someone can keep their opinion to himself, unless he lies.

In any case, it still would not be the atheist's fault. No more than a person of another religion would be at fault, for having a faith other than Christianity.





> Not condemning victims, I'm just saying to be smart about your decisions even when you're in the right.


Look back at my first post, referring to Jessica Alquhist. Despite the bullying she endure for standing up for her beliefs, she received over $62,000 in fundraising, and has been given several awards. And while it isn't about heroism, she is regarded as an activist and hero among skeptics.

And most importantly, she got the prayer removed. She was smart and did was. In the right.


----------



## LesExit (Aug 7, 2014)

Enclave said:


> At which point you call him out on basically wishing eternal torture on you and that he's a terrible Christian and thus will be right there with you if he's right since he's not following the teachings of his Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
> 
> At least my mom worries that I'm going to go to Hell and doesn't want me to.  She never has said anything like she'll be laughing when I'm in Hell.  She wants me to be a Christian specifically because she doesn't want somebody she loves to be subjected to Hell.


Well I told him, "woah...Jesus must be so proud of you right now " Then he told my grandma and she called me and was like..."What's this bout you not believing in the lord?" lol she didn't say she would laugh while I burn in hell though XD 

That's what many religious people worry about. They have the best intentions and in the process end up doing more harm than good. Example: parents don't want child to go to hell for being gay...and instead end up making their life on earth feel like hell  People trying to protect their children from something which has no solid evidence of even existing. 
I'll make sure my child never has any worry of going to a ridiculous place of external torture from a loving God...where even is the logic in that statement 


Seto Kaiba said:


> Ah, you're trolling.


 obviously.


----------



## brolmes (Aug 7, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Ah, you're trolling.


ah, you're realizing you're wrong and copping out with the troll card

in other words you can't tell me the difference between choosing to tell someone you think they're delusional loons who believe in shit that isn't real, and simply calling someone a nutjob

cause there blatantly obviously isn't one


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## Sanity Check (Aug 7, 2014)

I know some atheists complain.

The way I look at it is.

I would much rather live in the united states where the most atheists have to complain about is a jehovah's witness at their door.

Than live in soviet russia under Stalin where 50,000 - 100,000+ religious people were killed under Stalin's purge of religion.

Separation of atheism and state is as important if not more important than separation of church and state, imo.

Read this, it cites plenty of examples of atheists murdering religious people in the name of atheism, and atheists being far more intolerant than religious people in general:



.


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## Narcissus (Aug 7, 2014)

TheRooMan said:


> That's a really great thing she did, but the truth is that that outcome is not going to be very common, especially if the school itself is a religious based private one. I applaud any and all who can change the system for the better, but the truth is that for every success story there are many who failed in vain as well as suffered horrible consequences for what they did, despite being in the right.



By no means does that imply people should have to hide their opinions out of fear, no more than a gay person should have to hide their sexuality out of fear.

There are always potential consequences. But if everyone kept quiet in fear of them, we'd never have any of those success stories, and we'd allow ignorance to spread unopposed. 

There are times when you should pick and choose you're battles, but no one should be forced to stay quiet. And they shouldn't be blamed if someone attacks them. The attacker should be blamed.


----------



## brolmes (Aug 7, 2014)

Narcissus said:


> What idiocy.
> 
> First, and most importantly, no one should have to hide any aspect of themselves in fear of retaliation.
> 
> ...



waaah waaah i shouldn't have to make intelligent responsible decisions

waaah waaah i don't care how the world actually works, i should be able to run into a pit of lions and not get eaten cause it would be nice if lions didn't eat me.. i don't care if they would, they SHOULDN'T!!!! so it's not my fault!!!!!!!!!!

waaaah waaaaaah why is everybody blaming me for being fucking retarded after the lion ate my legs and put me in a wheelchair, why don't they blame all the bad things in the world that i should be using my own brain to avoid instead of being a naive fucktard who thinks the world should accomodate all my unrealistic ideals and compensate me everytime i want to do something stupid as fuck

waaaaaaaaah waaaaaaaaah mommy i want to put my dick in the frying pan but it burns me waaaaaaaaaah how can i solve this impossible dilemma waaaaaaah

i dunno son have you tried maybe not being a fucking idiot and just not putting your dick in frying pans every time you get the random urge to indulge yourself in something you know is going to cause you some pretty serious problems

but mommy i love putting my dick wherever i want to waaaaah why isn't the frying pan the dumb one for burning me waaaaah mommy i knew you never loved me


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## Narcissus (Aug 7, 2014)

When you have an intelligent and coherent thing to say, I might consider giving you a proper reply.


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## brolmes (Aug 7, 2014)

in other words my point is flawless and you have nothing

well why didn't you just say so my good man


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## Narcissus (Aug 8, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> "TAKE ME SERIOUSLY! "



That's nice dear.


----------



## Suit (Aug 8, 2014)

Actually, Stuck does have a point, and is just expressing it through satire. The point is that people like things to work a certain way just because they're "right", even when things don't work that way.

However, you are correct in saying that people should stand up to injustices so that progress can be made. It really is all about picking battles though, and some people are just terrible at picking battles, especially when they think they are correct. Hence, the penis in the frying pan and running in to a pit of lions. Of course the lions are hurting you for no good underlying moral reason. But just because running into the pit because you "feel like it" isn't a morally unjust action doesn't mean the world owes you compensation when you get your leg torn off. I believe that's the point anyway.

The ability to wisely pick your battles is probably the most important skill you can ever learn. And some people never learn because they're too busy using the "I'm in the right" justification to charge head first into everything.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Aug 8, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> ah, you're realizing you're wrong and copping out with the troll card
> 
> in other words you can't tell me the difference between choosing to tell someone you think they're delusional loons who believe in shit that isn't real, and simply calling someone a nutjob
> 
> cause there blatantly obviously isn't one



Is this a blender thing or something?

Saying you don't believe in a deity isn't the same as calling those that do delusional or a nutjob, even if they take it that way. A person being offended doesn't put them in the right.


----------



## Suit (Aug 8, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Is this a blender thing or something?
> 
> Saying you don't believe in a deity isn't the same as calling those that do delusional or a nutjob, even if they take it that way. A person being offended doesn't put them in the right.



Trolling, Kaiba. He was trolling.


----------



## Mizura (Aug 8, 2014)

TheRooMan said:


> I'm sure that if people who didn't eat potatoes were as heavily discriminated against and ostracized as atheists are, they actually _would_ indeed group up, if for no other reason than comfort. I don't need other atheists around me for support or friendship, but then again the vast majority of people my age have no problem with my lack of belief.


That's what I mean though. To me, things like not believing in a God or not eating potatoes are barely worth mentioning. God/religion are simply absent in my life, it's not something I actively pursue, or something worth talking to other people about. So the fact that atheists feel the need to group up in the U.S. must mean they're really ostracized, which feels really weird (and somewhat retarded, in this day and age - the ostracism I mean) to me.

To others, by the way: I'm only half-Chinese. I'm half-European. I've never had trouble with my atheism while in Europe too. When I was studying in France, I had Christian, Jewish and Muslim friends. We all got along.


----------



## Sunuvmann (Aug 8, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> so what does it mean when you choose to let somebody know you think they believe in a bunch of shit that doesn't exist and they are completely insane
> 
> i forget


That logic is rather flawed though. That's like implying that by telling a Christian you're a Jew, you think they're a delusional nutjob for believing that extra stuff that Jesus tacked on to the Old Testament. Or telling a Muslim you're a Christian is telling them that you think Mohammad was a fraud.

And heck, you might have those feelings. But that isn't really your implication.

Some theists might be assholes and interpret it as that. But they can straight up go fuck themselves. Your beliefs (or lack thereof) are none of their business.


----------



## Linkofone (Aug 8, 2014)

TheRooMan said:


> Sorry, but my personal experience here totally disagrees with your statement. Before I was an atheist, I knew a few atheists at my school who were bullied far worse than any person "of color" (none of which were ever actually bullied; funny that), even though whites were a majority. It was so bad that I didn't even stand up for them (though they were sort of my friends) because at the time, I couldn't afford the risk of being considered an atheist by my other friends.



That's not what statistics say. More people bully and discriminate due to race and color than religion. Most of the time people don't care what you believe in, they just don't like the way you look.


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## brolmes (Aug 8, 2014)

Sunuvmann said:


> That logic is rather flawed though. That's like implying that by telling a Christian you're a Jew, you think they're a delusional nutjob for believing that extra stuff that Jesus tacked on to the Old Testament. Or telling a Muslim you're a Christian is telling them that you think Mohammad was a fraud.
> 
> And heck, you might have those feelings. But that isn't really your implication.
> 
> Some theists might be assholes and interpret it as that. But they can straight up go fuck themselves. Your beliefs (or lack thereof) are none of their business.



exactly.. "it's none of their business"

it's nobody's business.. when people don't believe in santa claus they have no reason to run around telling everybody about it

and when they keep acting like ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) about it in places where everybody does believe in santa they actually are 100% calling those people delusional nutjobs.. wording it like "oh i'm just expressing my individuality, stop hating" doesn't change the fact that to them you are saying the shit they believe in is retarded and being obnoxious as fuck

somebody might as well go brag to a bunch of neo nazis about being a jew and then act like it's not their fault when they get beat up or whatever.. "bluhhh bluhhh what you did was morally wrong so it excuses me from being an irresponsible retard who willingly provoked someone i knew for certain would kick my ass.. it's not my fault they're mean to people who say the dumbest shit imaginable to them.. bluhhhh"

if people want to troll christians that's beautiful and they deserve it but then honestly acting like victims is laughable

i would laugh for months if everybody who ever wore an atheism wristband got literally crucified


----------



## Lucaniel (Aug 8, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> exactly.. "it's none of their business"
> 
> it's nobody's business.. when people don't believe in santa claus they have no reason to run around telling everybody about it
> 
> ...


is any of this serious


----------



## brolmes (Aug 8, 2014)

Mizura said:


> That's what I mean though. To me, things like not believing in a God or not eating potatoes are barely worth mentioning. God/religion are simply absent in my life, it's not something I actively pursue, or something worth talking to other people about. .



exactly

all these pretentious douchebags just want to feel like part of a group and it's suddenly cool to claim to be an atheist and claim to support all kinds of progressive bullshit causes

it has more to do with desperately wanting to look smart in front of a bunch of peers than it has to do with actually being smart

atheist isn't some group identity to wear as a badge it's just a description of somebody who isn't religious

it describes something you're not, not something you are and that you have to tell everybody


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Aug 8, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Honestly, I find few things more presumptuous than a claim to holding absolute, universal truth.



On the subject of this I want to add something.

I find it very odd, from the outside looking in, that some Christians vehemently claim to hold the absolute truth, especially branches like mormons or baptists etc. which are derivates of a derivate etc.

Christianity began as a split off Jewish sect, and many accounts and events from the bible came from far more ancient, polytheistic sources. The flood myth alone can be traced to both the Epic of Gilgamesh (oldest surviving fragments dated to 18th century BC) and Atra-Hasis (dated to the reign of Ammi-Saduqa, which is dated as either 1646-1626 BC or 1582 BC-1562 BC).

I find it exceedingly odd how the supposed one supreme being would wait over two thousand years to reveal the existence of a supposedly universally true religion and thus leave, according to interpretation, countless generations of humanity ineligible for permanent salvation by virtue of a lack of activity.

Not disrespecting any particular faith, just saying that I always thought that the "pagan" reconstrunctionists have slightly more of a "logical" argument. But that's just my musings that I'm not forcing onto anyone.


----------



## Deputy Myself (Aug 8, 2014)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> Separation of atheism and state is as important if not more important than separation of church and state, imo.


I disagree in even making that distinction

Atheism should be regarded as just another religion, because it has laws (gods don't exist), offers an explanation to life (Big bang, magic, natural selection over MILLIONS OF YEARS) and it offers a theory for when you die (you stop existing and your body rots)

Therefore seperation of church and state should naturally also include atheism, because duh.


----------



## brolmes (Aug 8, 2014)

San Juan Wolf said:


> On the subject of this I want to add something.
> 
> I find it very odd, from the outside looking in, that some Christians vehemently claim to hold the absolute truth, especially branches like mormons or baptists etc. which are derivates of a derivate etc.
> 
> ...



guess why this is

i'll let you in on a little secret

it's because these people are obviously all idiots who believe in complete bullshit

shocking.. i know..

but now the secret's out we don't really need to discuss all the fine details of their fantasies like we only just realized how insane they are

and we can just kind of keep it to ourselves and take it for granted that a huge chunk of the population are pretty much braindead animals.. and stop building our own identities around where we think we fit into the grand scheme of nonsense that dominates their lives and should have pretty much nothing to do with ours

or i guess maybe we should start defining ourselves by other shit that we're not

i'm a not vegetarian

i'm a not homosexual

i'm a not african american

i'm a not asian

i'm a not labrador

this could take a while but i think it's important to let the whole world know the full list of not things we are


----------



## Sauce (Aug 8, 2014)

It also doesn't help when you have people imposing their religious beliefs on others. And when the other person doesn't agree are wrote off like their not human beings.


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## Seto Kaiba (Aug 8, 2014)

Deputy Myself said:


> I disagree in even making that distinction
> 
> Atheism should be regarded as just another religion, because it has laws (gods don't exist), offers an explanation to life (Big bang, magic, natural selection over MILLIONS OF YEARS) and it offers a theory for when you die (you stop existing and your body rots)
> 
> Therefore seperation of church and state should naturally also include atheism, because duh.



I can't tell who is serious or not anymore.

Atheism isn't anything but lacking a belief in a god. That does not make it a religion. 

Recognizing theories of the Big Bang, Evolution, or any other scientific law or theory is a scientific explanation to life. Not an atheist one. You don't have to be an atheist to recognize it nor is it merely atheists that do. Also, your body DOES rot when you die and as far as the observable universe goes, you as an individual personality, cease to be. That too is a matter of science, not atheism. Science is not religion. 

Whether or not you are being serious, it is sad that a lot people actually do believe that and it's very telling of how deeply entrenched even the vestiges of some of the more negative aspects religious influence run in our society and individuals within it. It intentionally creates massive misconceptions among the population, and poisons the discussion on a number of topics; particularly those looked upon as a threat to the faith, and try to make it a matter of religion vs. religion because that side of the faith cannot conceptualize anything but that.


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## Deputy Myself (Aug 8, 2014)

Seto did you just try to tell me what I am or am not allowed to believe?
Seriously?

If anything that just proved my point, the superiority followers of a religion percieve themselves having over 'nonbelievers' (or hilariously 'believers', in the case of atheism) is just pathetic.


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## Seto Kaiba (Aug 8, 2014)

Deputy Myself said:


> Seto did you just try to tell me what I am or am not allowed to believe?
> Seriously?
> 
> If anything that just proved my point, the superiority followers of a religion percieve themselves having over 'nonbelievers' (or hilariously 'believers', in the case of atheism) is just pathetic.



You can believe whatever you want, that doesn't mean they hold any validity because of that. Also, it's not a matter of superiority either. You believing science is a religion doesn't make it so, and you believing that atheism, simply a matter of not believing in a god of any kind, doesn't make it a religion either. 

I still can't tell if you're being serious or just trolling right now.


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## Deputy Myself (Aug 8, 2014)

Eh, you're too stubborn. Nevermind


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## Gino (Aug 8, 2014)

_Almost everyone who knows me in real life knows I'm an atheist.When someone asks me I tell them. I don't go around letting the world know like most of these attention whores with the special snowflake mindset that exist today. Sometimes when things don't go well and someone would try to lecture me (or say I'm going to hell)I would logically destroy them then go on about my life and this is coming from a Black guy who stays in Tennessee respect my life ethics and I'll yours.There is zero benefit to me shitting on your life because you believe in something._


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## Narcissus (Aug 8, 2014)

TheRooMan said:


> Actually, Stuck does have a point


No he doesn't. And anyone who say something like this:





Homestuck said:


> i would laugh for months if everybody who ever wore an atheism wristband got literally crucified


doesn't deserve to be given any attention, because he has nothing of value to contribute.

Based off of what Homestuck is saying, no one should ever declare their atheism. Which is idiotic nonsense, and dangerous too. It allows the spread of ignorance and intolerance.

This is completely different from the concept of knowing when to pick your battles.


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## Sunrider (Aug 8, 2014)

Deputy Myself said:


> I disagree in even making that distinction
> 
> Atheism should be regarded as just another religion, because it has laws (gods don't exist), offers an explanation to life (Big bang, magic, natural selection over MILLIONS OF YEARS) and it offers a theory for when you die (you stop existing and your body rots)
> 
> Therefore seperation of church and state should naturally also include atheism, because duh.


Damn, I wonder if this is how Muslims feel when they try to explain their religion to U.S. citizens. 


The _only_ qualification for atheism is disbelief in a deity. The is _no_ central dogma, no hierarchy of worship, no designators of faith, no rules to adhere to. It _only_ gets complicated when describing gnostic and agnostic atheists, which even then is really simple: Gnostic atheists assert that factually that there isn't a god, agnostic atheists disbelieve for lack of empirical evidence. 

You are or you aren't, you believe or you don't. That's it. That's all. There's no church, no belief structure. 

Anyone telling you different is selling something.


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## Gino (Aug 8, 2014)

Leave it to Orochimaru to take offense to something that was not meant to be offensive.


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## Seto Kaiba (Aug 8, 2014)

Sunrider said:


> Damn, I wonder if this is how Muslims feel when they try to explain their religion to U.S. citizens.
> 
> 
> The _only_ qualification for atheism is disbelief in a deity. The is _no_ central dogma, no hierarchy of worship, no designators of faith, no rules to adhere to. It _only_ gets complicated when describing gnostic and agnostic atheists, which even then is really simple: Gnostic atheists assert that factually that there isn't a god, agnostic atheists disbelieve for lack of empirical evidence.
> ...



It's always a wonder where people get some of their info. I remember an old lady I met was talking about some woman she knew at a homeless shelter whose baby died, and that the woman thought her baby would be born in another life. The old lady thought that was evolution, and that the matter itself was a religion the woman followed. My family has a few stories too, my aunt saw a Buddhist parade on TV, and a large statue of the fat Buddha was being paraded and she thought it was satanic, as well as thinking people were worshiping it much like the golden bull was in the accounts of Moses.

Oh, and a lot of people down here still think Muslims deify Mohammed and worship him. Not to mention, many have a hard time telling apart Sikhs from Muslims, which has resulted in some tragic consequences as many of us know...At least down here, I'm more than used to bizarre misconceptions a lot of locals have about people of other religions, those that have none at all, and matters of science as well.


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## Mizura (Aug 8, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Atheism isn't anything but lacking a belief in a god. That does not make it a religion.


Put another way, 'not blond' is not a hair color, and 'illiterate' is not a language.



Narcissus said:


> Based off of what Homestuck is saying, no one should ever declare their atheism. Which is idiotic nonsense, and dangerous too. It allows the spread of ignorance and intolerance.


Whoa there, being an atheist doesn't mean we're anti-theists (or whatever it's called?). Some atheists are against any belief in God, sure, but many simply don't care.

I do agree anyone should have the Right to tell others their beliefs or non-beliefs, but being an atheist doesn't mean we're automatically attacking someone else's beliefs. If I asked you if you think that there are giant pink rats the size of dogs, you'd probably say no, but if it ever turns out that they do exist, you'd just go "oh okay." Many atheists are like that with God. We don't think he exists because we've seen no evidence. If it turns out he does exist, cool?

By the way, atheism and science are also two separate things. There are atheists who don't accept many scientific principles, just like how there are many religious people who do accept scientific principles.


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## blueblip (Aug 8, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> It's always a wonder where people get some of their info. I remember an old lady I met was talking about some woman she knew at a homeless shelter whose baby died, and that the woman thought her baby would be born in another life. The old lady thought that was evolution, and that the matter itself was a religion the woman followed. My family has a few stories too, my aunt saw a Buddhist parade on TV, and a large statue of the fat Buddha was being paraded and she thought it was satanic, as well as thinking people were worshiping it much like the golden bull was in the accounts of Moses.
> 
> Oh, and a lot of people down here still think Muslims deify Mohammed and worship him. Not to mention, many have a hard time telling apart Sikhs from Muslims, which has resulted in some tragic consequences as many of us know...At least down here, I'm more than used to bizarre misconceptions a lot of locals have about people of other religions, those that have none at all, and matters of science as well.


You find that shit weird? Try moving to where I am 

I met a girl applying for an MBA at one of the most prestigious universities in India, and - I'm swear on everything I hold dear - she had never heard of Hitler or the Nazis (which is still understandable since those aren't topics that are taught in a meaningful way in the Indian education system no matter how retarded that may be). No, the kicker was that *SHE HAD NEVER HEARD OF WORLD WAR II!!!!*

I got the...opportunity...to meet this paragon of knowledge because a coworker of mine (her father) wanted me to help her with her entrance exam preparations. Specifically, she would have a general knowledge and current affairs section (either as part of the written exam or the interview after, I'm not sure which), and she was brushing up her knowledge on the Israel-Palestine conflict.

So I agree to help her out, and we meet. I wanted to get an idea of how much she knew already, so I asked her exactly that. She responded with she knows nothing. Fair enough, I thought, the girl's humble and wants to learn. But as I started explaining the more recent going-ons, it was clear she wasn't understanding anything. So I then asked her if she knew the origins of the conflict.

No.

Do you know where Israel and Palestine are located?

Africa...?

Do you know how and why Israel was created?

No.

Okay. Ummm...Have your heard of Adolf Hitler and the Nazi party, and what they did during World War II?

No.

Do you know what World War II was?

No.

Have you heard of World War II?

No.

At first I thought she was just fucking around with me. I mean, wouldn't you? But the more I talked to her, the more I was convinced she was genuinely ignorant about it. She is not atypical of Indian students - our education system is pretty poor in high school and things like history and geography are not given any importance. History is primarily limited to Indian history, and the WWII period is barely touched upon since in favour of the Independence movement. Not to say I have met anyone else who has never heard of WWII, but a lot of people here are ignorant about a lot of things you would take for granted.

tl;dr - Ignorance is a surprisingly universal trait.

ON TOPIC EDIT: Completely forgot I was off topic 

The fact of the matter is that some parts of the US are amazingly hostile to non-Christians. But even in those areas, I've seen even more hostility towards atheists. I remember I spent on Thanksgiving in a middle of Iowa in a town with a population of around 120 people. The entire town was into missionary work (and related to each other). I ended up going there because one of my friends, a Japanese Christian, was a member of the church that the town belonged to and he and his Iowan friends invited me along. I agreed, since it sounded like it'll be fun. And it was for the most part. The family I stayed with were lovely people, and I had the greatest Thanksgiving turkey in the history of Thanksgiving turkey! They even let me decorate their Christmas tree on my last day there because I told them I had never done so before. They were truly kind and caring people.

BUT...

I had to put up with three days worth of conversion attempts. First, they thought I was Muslim since I'm brown. I said no, I'm from a Hindu family. Turns out they'd never heard of Hindus. I tried to explain it to them, but they got noticeably uncomfortable, and later, the lady of the house gently asked me not to talk about heathen religions because it's blasphemy. Fair enough though. It was their house, and I was the guest. Then I remember waking up the next morning and came into the kitchen for breakfast. They had a map of the world spread out in front of them, with pins scattered all across it, and they were talking about how they were going to bring the word of God to the "poor, godless people" . They even asked me if I'd be willing to send my family copies of the Bible and give Jesus a shot at entering my heart. But they were still polite, but's primarily because they still thought I was a theist.

I remember sitting with them one evening, and I was surprised at how vitriolic they got when talking about atheists! I mean, these were the same people who were so gentle otherwise, talking about wishing god would just rain fire and brimstone on atheists and wishing them dead! I did point out that it's wrong to wish harm on anyone for their beliefs, but no! They were adamant in their belief that atheists ought to be purged from the human race!

Kind scary, now that I think about it. I can only imagine who they would have reacted to me if I told them I was agnostic.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 8, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> not what i said at all
> 
> *what i said was your mother's an idiot if she desperately had to tell her boss she thought he was a delusional nutjob*



You're making one hell of a big assumption here . A gigantic one . I won't even take time and write the circumstances because a person that interprets " My mom almost lost her job for being an atheist " as " My mom told her boss that she thought he was a delusional nutjob and almost lost her job " is *certainly* not worth my time . You can only be trolling . 

BTW her boss was the one who saved her(In the chain of command he was the boss of the bosses, the people that were trying to get her fired were above her, but not her bosses in anyways) .


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## Suit (Aug 8, 2014)

Linkofone said:


> That's not what statistics say. More people bully and discriminate due to race and color than religion. Most of the time people don't care what you believe in, they just don't like the way you look.



Yes, but that is very off-topic as the topic isn't about race and color. Also, your wording was very ignorant. "Not if your white" implies that you actually think white people have some kind of immunity to being harassed. I don't know if this is news to you or not, but having white skin does _not_ give a person magical protection against bullying and discrimination for other reasons, even in the south. If you believe otherwise, you're not very open-minded. I'll repeat: white people, even in the southern U.S., are discriminated against for reasons other than skin-color, for example, atheism.



Narcissus said:


> No he doesn't. And anyone who say something like this:doesn't deserve to be given any attention, because he has nothing of value to contribute.
> 
> Based off of what Homestuck is saying, no one should ever declare their atheism. Which is idiotic nonsense, and dangerous too. It allows the spread of ignorance and intolerance.
> 
> This is completely different from the concept of knowing when to pick your battles.



He certainly wasn't addressing the topic in the most intelligent manner, but I can understand what he's saying. There are atheists who parade their stance more for reasons of attention than for actually doing something useful for society. The latter is a good thing, while the former is just stupid. 

I wouldn't suggest anyone listen to HS for life advice though, that's for sure. 



Mr. Black Leg said:


> You're making one hell of a big assumption here . A gigantic one . I won't even take time and write the circumstances because a person that interprets " My mom almost lost her job for being an atheist " as " My mom told her boss that she thought he was a delusional nutjob and almost lost her job " is *certainly* not worth my time . You can only be trolling .
> 
> BTW her boss was the one who saved her(In the chain of command he was the boss of the bosses, the people that were trying to get her fired were above her, but not her bosses in anyways) .



Damn, you put him in his place really nicely.


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## The Faceless Man (Aug 8, 2014)

People who call themselfs atheist are pretty stupid. If you dont belive in god its okay you dont belive... why the need to take part in a cult that says i dont belive in god ?

Also people who call other people... atheist's are even more stupid.
Why judge a person who doesn't belive in something ?
If that person calls himself  atheist  you can make fun of him but if he simply rejects the god idea then his a normal person.


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## Seto Kaiba (Aug 8, 2014)

Jesus Christ.

I can only hope you're being facetious...


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 8, 2014)

The Faceless Man said:


> People who call themselfs atheist are pretty stupid. If you dont belive in god its okay you dont belive... why the need to make a cult that says i dont belive in god ?
> 
> Also people who call other people... atheist's are even more stupid. Why judge a person who doesn't belive in something ? If that person calls himself  atheist  you can make fun of him but if he simply rejects the god idea then his a normal person.



What ? You're basically trying to say that shouldn't be a word for " a person who doesn't believe in god " ? Also, there's no such thing as a cult . 

Seriously, you're stupid . 



> *If that person calls himself  atheist  you can make fun of him but if he simply rejects the god idea then his a normal person*



This is the best part of the post, where you try to denie the use of a word . It's like saying " A person believing in god is okay, but calling theist you can make fun of him " .

Seriously, you're basically trying to argue against the concept of " word " .

Edit: Or maybe is a case of " Poe's Law " ?


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## The Faceless Man (Aug 8, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Jesus Christ.
> 
> I can only hope you're being facetious...



You can hope... 



Mr. Black Leg said:


> What ? *You're basically trying to say that shouldn't be a word for " a person who doesn't believe in god " ?* *Also, there's no such thing as a cult *.
> 
> Seriously, you're stupid .
> 
> ...



YES ! 
You do know what a cult is ? Cuz atheism and people who call themself like that are a cult or they are just very retarded.
No... you are the one being stupid by using the childish behaviour.

I was saying that a normal person who really doesnt belive in god and rejects that idea will never call himself atheist unless his stupid and likes to be part of a cult.

There are a bunch of people who dont belive in god but arent using the atheist shit.


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## Wesley (Aug 8, 2014)

Mostly imagined or completely deserved.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 8, 2014)

The Faceless Man said:


> You can hope...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



By cult you mean group ? Also, I don't want to " be part of a group ", I am as long as I don't believe in god/gods/deities . A person that doesn't believe either is an atheist whether he/she wants to be or not . If the person does not believe, then the person is an atheist .

You're literally trying to go against the concept of " word " . This is not your everyday normal stupid, this is more .


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## Seto Kaiba (Aug 8, 2014)

The Faceless Man said:


> You can hope...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's not being a cult, it's a matter of terminology. If you don't believe in a god of any kind, you are an atheist. Simple as that. It does not require that you associate with anyone to be such. All the same a theist doesn't have to be in solidarity with anyone, all that is required is a belief in a deity of some kind. 

I suspect you know that, but I just have to go by Poe's Law here since I can't read minds. What you just stated is supremely uneducated, and it's even more incredible considering that we just got off this discussion on this basic matter, and even moreso about how people can run with such wild misconceptions on the basics of matters they choose to comment on.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 8, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> It's not being a cult, it's a matter of terminology. If you don't believe in a god of any kind, you are an atheist. Simple as that. It does not require that you associate with anyone to be such. All the same a theist doesn't have to be in solidarity with anyone, all that is required is a belief in a deity of some kind.
> 
> I suspect you know that, but I just have to go by Poe's Law here since I can't read minds. What you just stated is supremely uneducated, and it's even more incredible considering that we just got off this discussion on this basic matter, and even moreso about how people can run with such wild misconceptions on the basics of matters they choose to comment on.



The part that makes me go like " What the actual fuck ? " is that he's trying to go against the concept of " word ", by using words . This gotta be Poe's law or this guy is seriously brain damaged .


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## The Faceless Man (Aug 8, 2014)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> By cult you mean group ? Also, I don't want to " be part of a group ", I am as long as I don't believe in god/gods/deities . *A person that doesn't believe either is an atheist whether he/she wants to be or not *.* If the person does not believe, then the person is an atheist .*
> 
> You're literally trying to go against the concept of " word " . This is not your everyday normal stupid, this is more .



Its not a group. Its a cult all day long ! Nope that is pure stupidity. Just because people invented atheist as a word for people who dont belive in god that does not mean its a fucking thing.

If you dont belive in santa i must make a word for that to ? And call you and others a group to ?
Im not going against a word... many people think not believing in god means atheist... those are the stupid people.




Seto Kaiba said:


> It's not being a cult, it's a matter of terminology. If you don't believe in a god of any kind, you are an atheist. Simple as that. It does not require that you associate with anyone to be such. All the same a theist doesn't have to be in solidarity with anyone, all that is required is a belief in a deity of some kind.
> 
> I suspect you know that, but I just have to go by Poe's Law here since I can't read minds. What you just stated is supremely uneducated, and it's even more incredible considering that we just got off this discussion on this basic matter, and even moreso about how people can run with such wild misconceptions on the basics of matters they choose to comment on.



Like i said atheism its a cult. Stupid people made the word of atheist = people who dont belive in god cuz they are retarded.

If i dont belive in god, in santa, in the easter bunny and any other shit its my problem. Inventing a world for this kind of shit its just made from the religious people... that hate people who dont belive in god.

What i just said its my opinion on the matter. You can belive what you want.
But if someone would call me an athiest on the street i would beat the living shit out of them since this nonsense of religion and atheism goes for so many decades.


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## Gunners (Aug 8, 2014)

The Faceless Man said:


> Its not a group. Its a cult all day long ! Nope that is pure stupidity. Just because people invented atheist as a word for people who dont belive in god that does not mean its a fucking thing.
> 
> If you dont belive in santa i must make a word for that to ? And call you and others a group to ?
> Im not going against a word... many people think not beliving in god means atheist... those are the stupid people.
> ...


 **


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## Seto Kaiba (Aug 8, 2014)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> The part that makes me go like " What the actual fuck ? " is that he's trying to go against the concept of " word ", by using words . This gotta be Poe's law or this guy is seriously brain damaged .



The general ideas rooted behind the misconceptions aren't all too uncommon. I think this thread alone proves that, some more extreme than others. 

It is back to a point I made previously about how deep religious influence goes in our society. In this case the negative aspect. Even for those that consider themselves removed from religion and religious influences can still have vestiges of it in subtle and/or overt influences. Influences that can result in one continuing to perpetuate misconceptions, such as regarding this matter.


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## Tranquil Fury (Aug 8, 2014)

> What i just said its my opinion on the matter



Nothing in your posts comes off as opinion based and opinions don't work when facts contradict them. We humans invent words for things to describe them. Are you getting angry that there is terminology to call people with a lack of belief in something?I'm not sure how that makes anyone retarded as atheists can be just as normal or fanatical in their stance as a religious person.

EDIT Why would you beat up someone for calling you an atheist?


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 8, 2014)

The Faceless Man said:


> Its not a group. Its a cult all day long ! Nope that is pure stupidity. Just because people invented atheist as a word for people who dont belive in god that does not mean its a fucking thing.
> 
> If you dont belive in santa i must make a word for that to ? And call you and others a group to ?
> Im not going against a word... many people think not believing in god means atheist... those are the stupid people.
> ...



" -a " is prefix in greek for " no " . " teos " is greek for god . " ateos " = " no god " . 

You can totally make a word for Santa, and each and every person that does not believe in Santa will be this word .

Let's say the word is " anicholas " . Now, most of the people in the word is anicholas . This is whether or not they agree with the word, or if they even know the word even exists .


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## Tranquil Fury (Aug 8, 2014)

> But if someone would call me an athiest on the street i would beat the living shit out of them



I mean ignoring the possibility you get your ass kicked or sued, this is really childish. The post itself looks like it was something typed by a youtuber. Are you just a child or teenager?


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## Enclave (Aug 8, 2014)

The Faceless Man said:


> People who call themselfs atheist are pretty stupid. If you dont belive in god its okay you dont belive... why the need to take part in a cult that says i dont belive in god ?
> 
> Also people who call other people... atheist's are even more stupid.
> Why judge a person who doesn't belive in something ?
> If that person calls himself  atheist  you can make fun of him but if he simply rejects the god idea then his a normal person.



This is one of the most retarded things I've ever seen posted on this forum.  Kudos to you, that's quite an accomplishment.  I'll honestly be surprised if you know how to dress yourself.


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## The Faceless Man (Aug 8, 2014)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Nothing in your posts comes off as opinion based and opinions don't work when facts contradict them. *We humans invent words for things to describe them. *Are you getting angry that there is* terminology to call people with a lack of belief in something?I'*m not sure how that makes anyone retarded as atheists can be just as normal or fanatical in their stance as a religious person.
> 
> EDIT *Why would you beat up someone for calling you an atheist?*



Lets make a world for people who dont belive in santa and a word for people who dont belive in the easter bunny,  and any other shit. Why not ?

Yes... cuz the religious people have done this with hate.... people who dont give a darn about god must be called atheist cuz ??? If we were to go that way we should make alot of other words but yet those things are not made.

Religion is a cult and atheism is a cult. Some people dont want to be a part of their shit. Yet other people try to drag them into this shit....

Cuz im not an atheist...  





Mr. Black Leg said:


> *" -a " is prefix in greek for " no " . " teos " is greek for god . " ateos " = " no god " . *
> 
> You can totally make a word for Santa, and each and every person that does not believe in Santa will be this word .
> 
> Let's say the word is " anicholas " . Now, most of the people in the word is anicholas . This is whether or not they agree with the word, or if they even know the word even exists ].



I dont care. 

Yet that didnt happen with Santa i wonder why ? Atheist word was made purely out of hate for people who dont give a shit fot religion crap.

See how stupid is to hear  " anicholas "  same shit with "atheism"


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## Seto Kaiba (Aug 8, 2014)

The Faceless Man said:


> Lets make a world for people who dont belive in santa and a word for people who dont belive in the easter bunny,  and any other shit. Why not ?



Well they are supernatural creatures/events...so rejection of them in that regard would be taking a naturalist position on them, if I'm getting that right.

The rest, there's no point in addressing it. You've been corrected on it, it's really on you if you manage to take it all in or not.


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## Tranquil Fury (Aug 8, 2014)

> Lets make a world for people who dont belive in santa and a word for people who dont belive in the easter bunny, and any other shit. Why not ?



You can make a word, we classify things and make up new terminology all the time. There is no hate involved in the origin of the word atheist, it simply means lack of belief in a deity/higher power. Some believe 100% in no higher power and some are 50/50. But then I'd have to use more terminology and you seem to hate that. We have words for people with different philosophy/schools of thought be it moral, economical or other. I suppose you hate the concept of language as well yet use it anyway?



> Religion is a cult and atheism is a cult. Some people dont want to be a part of their shit. Yet other people try to drag them into this shit....
> 
> Cuz im not an atheist



You don't have to be part of a cult. Just because people share the same belief does not mean they have to hang out with each other or do the same things. You are an atheist, you can call yourself an atheist or not!religious or Not!atheist or sugar fruit plum but whatever the terminology, you match the defination/trait.

If every atheist in the world did not call themselves atheist, they'd still have their belief and live their lives as they do now.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 8, 2014)

The Faceless Man said:


> Lets make a world for people who dont belive in santa and a word for people who dont belive in the easter bunny,  and any other shit. Why not ?
> 
> Yes... cuz the religious people have done this with hate.... *people who dont give a darn about god must be called atheist cuz ???* If we were to go that way we should make alot of other words but yet those things are not made.
> 
> ...



I just told you why . Also, why use words at all ? Why don't we randomly type: aaubhsbhbdshzyxbasbhabshsabhasbashas asbAHBASJANJA 

Did you understand ? No ? Yeah, that's the role of the words in general, create comprehention, and in the case of " not believing in deities and gods " the word is " ateos ", and it's a lot easier to say " atheist " than " people who does not believe in gods/deities " .


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## Suit (Aug 8, 2014)

Enclave said:


> This is one of the most retarded things I've ever seen posted on this forum.  Kudos to you, that's quite an accomplishment.  I'll honestly be surprised if you know how to dress yourself.





I nominate this for post of the year.


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## Megaharrison (Aug 8, 2014)

Thread is too much shit.


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