# Strongest Kage Gai can solo



## Rokku Ree (Aug 28, 2013)

Who can he solo? No restrictions


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## johnsuwey (Aug 28, 2013)

None.  Those suicide gates are really getting overestimated.

What is with the Gai hype of all a sudden?

Tsunade would force gates, and then she would just tank him until he passed out.  Regeneration, GG.
Gaara and Onoki can fly, so Gai is pretty much just fucked with his limited ranged attacks.
Ei's shroud would probably protect him for the most part.
Mei maybe, but she has some strong ninjutsu that could force him to keep his distance.


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## RBL (Aug 28, 2013)

johnsuwey said:


> None.
> 
> What is with the Gai hype of all a sudden?



Gai is only being hyped, by team gai fans, any other than that, gai is hated or irrelevant, so don't dare to say, that he is overrated.

OFF TOPIC : your name is full of youth 

ON : he can solo any gokage, maybe he'd have it hard against that old guy oonoki.

and we haven't seen that much, but i guess he can solo hiruzen as well.


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## Veracity (Aug 28, 2013)

Brandon Lee said:


> Gai is only being hyped, by team gai fans, any other than that, gai is hated or irrelevant, so don't dare to say, that he is overrated.
> 
> OFF TOPIC : your name is full of youth
> 
> ...



He wouldn't solo any of the Gokage. Ay and Onnoki definitely beat him, while Tsunade has a high chance, but it's debateable. Mei, if she plays her cards right, and uses tactic, can completely melt his body, and Gaara is also debatable.


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## RBL (Aug 28, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> He wouldn't solo any of the Gokage. Ay and Onnoki definitely beat him, while Tsunade has a high chance, but it's debateable. Mei, if she plays her cards right, and uses tactic, can completely melt his body, and Gaara is also debatable.



gokages suck balls.

only tough fighter there is oonoki.

gaara deserves respect for being young, but is not at gai's level yet.

gai vs oonoki would be something difficult, but besides him, he can take on any other GOkage.


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## P3IN (Aug 28, 2013)

He can probably solo Tsunade and Mei with extreme diff


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## Veracity (Aug 28, 2013)

Brandon Lee said:


> gokages suck balls.
> 
> only tough fighter there is oonoki.
> 
> ...



Gai would shit bricks if he saw v2 Ay's shunshin. Ay is confirmed faster then even 7th gate Gai. On top of this, Gais strongest attack wouldn't even put Ay down if landed. While Gai has shitty durabilty.
Ay and Onnoki destroy him.

Gai simply can't put Tsunade down. And she would end up ousting him with the aid of her slug. His strongest attack didn't even damage Kisame. Merely knocked him on his ass.  While all she has to do is literally tap him, which isn't an easy task, but is inevitable in the end.

I agree Gai beats Mei. But is he accidentally dashes into some acid most thinking it's normal most, he's dead.

Gaara and Gai is an extremely close battle.


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## ueharakk (Aug 29, 2013)

Ei if and that's a big if, he lands one of his super attacks before taking a hit.


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## trance (Aug 29, 2013)

Probably Gaara, which isn't bad considering he's mid Kage level...most of the other Kage on this level are simply bad matchups for (i.e. Tsunade's regen, Mū's invisibility, Raikagenaut's durability etc.)...


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## Bonly (Aug 29, 2013)

Out of the current Gokage I can see him beating Mei+Gaara more times then not, 50/50 against Tsunade+Mei and losing more times then not against A.


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## Gaifangirl24 (Aug 29, 2013)

Gai underestimation in this thread is horrifying, he takes all the Gokage at once with gates rapestomps them 1 at a time.  Hopefully this underestimation will finally stop when the war arc ends with 8 gate Gai throwing Juubito into orbit.


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## Mercurial (Aug 29, 2013)

Gai bliztes Mei or destroys her from range with Asa Kujaku or Hiru Tora

Gai blitzes Tsunade and teachs her what really is being a taijutsu master, repeated speedblitzs with Gated nunchaku hits, Gated kicks and punches, Omote Renge, Ura Renge, Asa Kujaku or Hiru Tora, or a simply blitz + kunai decapitation with Gated strength end her

Gai blitzes Gaara's sand and stomps the shit out of him, also a serious Hiru Tora, with intent to kill, but from a nearly dead Gai, stomped Madara's 3rd level Susanoo, so sayonara Sand Defense

Gai blitzes Onoki with Gated jump + Asa Kujaku or destroys from range with Hiru Tora

Gai vs Ei is the closest match, Gated Gai is more versatile, flexible, agile and skilled in taijutsu but probably less fast than RnY lv2 Ei


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## ThunderCunt (Aug 29, 2013)

Physically harming Tsunade is pretty hard, she is very tough. Though, Mei and Gaara might get defeated by Gai.


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## Pein (Aug 29, 2013)

Mei
Gaara
hiruzen
oonoki 
muu 
yondaime kazekage


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## Ghost (Aug 29, 2013)

Raikiri19 said:


> Gai bliztes Mei or destroys her from range with Asa Kujaku or Hiru Tora
> 
> Gai blitzes Tsunade and teachs her what really is being a taijutsu master, repeated speedblitzs with Gated nunchaku hits, Gated kicks and punches, Omote Renge, Ura Renge, Asa Kujaku or Hiru Tora, or a simply blitz + kunai decapitation with Gated strength end her
> 
> ...



I like how in your scenario Guy has full knowledge, short distance between the opponent and starts in Seventh Gate.


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## PopoTime (Aug 29, 2013)

None, Mei has a huge advantage if she's fighting by herself


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## johnsuwey (Aug 29, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> He wouldn't solo any of the Gokage. Ay and Onnoki definitely beat him, while Tsunade has a high chance, but it's debateable. Mei, if she plays her cards right, and uses tactic, can completely melt his body, and Gaara is also debatable.



Gaara would float on his sand and roflstomp him.
Gai would be lucky to even break through his defenses.



Raikiri19 said:


> Gai bliztes Mei or destroys her from range with Asa Kujaku or Hiru Tora
> 
> Gai blitzes Tsunade and teachs her what really is being a taijutsu master, repeated speedblitzs with Gated nunchaku hits, Gated kicks and punches, Omote Renge, Ura Renge, Asa Kujaku or Hiru Tora, or a simply blitz + kunai decapitation with Gated strength end her
> 
> ...



There hasn't been 1 damn comparable fight in the whole series where someone got '*BLITZED*'.

Also, how in the hell do you even '*BLITZ*' someone in the sky?  
Even if Gai jumped, all they have to do is move a foot in any direction.  Then what? You can't fall faster than gravity accelerates you.  He is a sitting duck...  Never mind the fact that falling from extreme heights is dangerous, even in this series.


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## -JT- (Aug 29, 2013)

Possibly Gaara and Ay, the latter if he manages it before the Raiton cloak goes up.

Why all the Mei underestimation? She melted Susanoo with ease. Guy gets up close and has his face turned into skin-coloured goop in seconds.


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## SSMG (Aug 29, 2013)

Guy would be any of the current kages with slight ease. 

tsunade ets handled by base guys superir speed striking and reareactipns.

Gated guy would just muscle through gaarassand like the third gaikage did. he can hit airborn gaara with either NP or an AT.

he'd be able to dodge all of meis lava jutsus with ease and can counter her acid mist with NP...which would likely take out Mei as she hasn't shown to be able to react to something that fast.

Ei and oonki he'd have a bit of trouble with.. well maybe not ei. guy has far faster striking speed as shown against madara and guy has way more powerful attacks using the same example. guy was able to keep up with obito in base...gated guy taijutsu is dancing around EI.

 I'm not sure if he has a counter for dust besides dodging it.. but seeing as pre rinnegan beat two dust usrrs at once its not impossible to dodge/counter. guy goes sixth gates.plus and oonki isn't keeping track of him. ponki flies guy does either MP or AT to take him out.

so yeah i don't really see too much opposition from the kages against him..assuming tht are 1v1s and he is fresh for each fight of course


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## SSMG (Aug 29, 2013)

johnsuwey said:


> Gaara would float on his sand and roflstomp him.
> Gai would be lucky to even break through his defenses.
> 
> 
> ...



Guy can cover the sky with mp for foes who are about 50m high..or however high that shark wall was... and AT reached the clouds so yeah it takes out any one who is airborn.

and there havte been many blitz' in this series. everytime Ei fights he goes for blitz'. when guy went 6th gate and took out kisame. narutos attack on swordform kisame..naruto vs oro.

those are just a few iff the top of my head.


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## SSMG (Aug 29, 2013)

-JT- said:


> Possibly Gaara and Ay, the latter if he manages it before the Raiton cloak goes up.
> 
> Why all the Mei underestimation? She melted Susanoo with ease. Guy gets up close and has his face turned into skin-coloured goop in seconds.



Guys gated shroud could possibly counter the acid.


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## johnsuwey (Aug 29, 2013)

Sweat evaporating is going to counter it?
LOL



SSMG said:


> Guy can cover the sky with mp for foes who are about 50m high..or however high that shark wall was... and AT reached the clouds so yeah it takes out any one who is airborn.
> 
> and there havte been many blitz' in this series. everytime Ei fights he goes for blitz'. when guy went 6th gate and took out kisame. narutos attack on swordform kisame..naruto vs oro.
> 
> those are just a few iff the top of my head.


That wouldn't do shit to either Gaara or Onoki, especially not Gaara.
Water sharks don't fight back either.

Yet, Ei always fails to blitz.
They always never end up killing anyone.

LOL Blitz is fan faction BS.
Slower characters block against faster characters all the time.


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## SSMG (Aug 29, 2013)

Yes the sweat could possibly counter it. the acid would start to eat away at the first layer of the sweat aura.. but itd just get replaced by more and.more sweat. 

Also we know MP counters posionpus acidic gas.


At would kill either gaara or oonki...
So? you just said characters don't blitz. i showed you how you were wrong.

and have any examples for that last claim or ypu just talking out your ass again?


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## LostSelf (Aug 29, 2013)

Mei: Even if she puts her mist up, Hirudora would blow it away along with her. She's not escaping the blast. And her attacks are not that fast as to touch Gai.

Gaara: If he doesn't fight in a desert, Gai's assault would prove to be too much. 

Tsunade: Could go either way, if he manages to hit her before she summons Exodia, she's gonna be in for a rough beating. Of course, Gai can opt to use his Kunai and slash her throat multiple times. She's not reacting to Gated Gai.  

Onoki: Gai jumped mid air, his only shot is to take Onoki with MP (Since i don't believe Hirudora explodes in the air). Onoki is hardly avoiding MP's huge range and speed. If he manages to do this, Onoki is at his mercy. If not...

Ei, would beat him much more times than not.


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## johnsuwey (Aug 29, 2013)

SSMG said:


> Yes the sweat could possibly counter it. the acid would start to eat away at the first layer of the sweat aura.. but itd just get replaced by more and.more sweat.
> 
> Also we know MP counters posionpus acidic gas.
> 
> ...



LOL Blitz is fan faction BS.
Slower characters block against faster characters all the time.

No you didn't.
Being Blitzed means you instantly win.  That never happens between comparable foes.

No, it wouldn't kill either of them.
Gaara has his defense, and Onoki has particle style + Rocks.  It is also easy to dodge from the air.



LostSelf said:


> Mei: Even if she puts her mist up, Hirudora would blow it away along with her. She's not escaping the blast. And her attacks are not that fast as to touch Gai.
> 
> Gaara: If he doesn't fight in a desert, Gai's assault would prove to be too much.
> 
> ...



You guys are laughable.
Gai and Kakashi are so overrated its not funny.

Gai gates GG!
Kakashi kamui GG!

Its like you can't think deeper than 1 move or 10 seconds.


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## Kai (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm thinking Gaara, but Gaara's power can vary depending on location. Even Mei can triumph over Gaara in certain settings.

Out of the current Gokage, Gai can beat Mei most of the time, Gaara sometimes, and lose out to Tsunade but cut it pretty close against her. Of course, against any of these Kages these are all progressively high-extreme difficulty battles for Gai.

A and Onoki are out of his league. Although if we consider the eighth gate, Gai will momentarily have power that exceeds any of the Gokage.


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## SSMG (Aug 29, 2013)

John you keep repeating slower charcters react to fadter ones all the time. Provide me examples of your claim.

you don't know what blitz means do you?
gaaras defense has been bypassed by gated attacks before.. and a more powerful gated attack by a more powerful user will defeat him unless there are any recent examples of his defense getting better.

Partial style pkus rocks isn't going to do shit to an attack that covers the entire skyline. oonki would try to block infront of him and gets engulfed gg.


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## johnsuwey (Aug 29, 2013)

Why should I have to defend something so obvious?

As a kid.... And actually Lee lost as you recall.  He never actually got through the last line of defense.

The attack has a lot of force, but its spread over a large area.
Its like a tornado.  But a tornado isn't going to do shit to a concrete bunker.


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## SSMG (Aug 29, 2013)

Why should you provide examples to your claims?

because that's how a debate works. 

protip you should know how to debate before coming to a boards like this.

so provide an example of someone slower not getting blitzd by a speedster or shut up.


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## Miyamoto Musashi (Aug 29, 2013)

A good few actually. He has the chance of beating any of the current Kage.


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## johnsuwey (Aug 29, 2013)

Kai said:


> I'm thinking Gaara, but Gaara's power can vary depending on location. Even Mei can triumph over Gaara in certain settings.
> 
> Out of the current Gokage, Gai can beat Mei most of the time, Gaara sometimes, and lose out to Tsunade but cut it pretty close against her. Of course, against any of these Kages these are all progressively high-extreme difficulty battles for Gai.
> 
> A and Onoki are out of his league. Although if we consider the eighth gate, Gai will momentarily have power that exceeds any of the Gokage.



WTF are you talking about?  Gaara can make a desert anywhere he goes!  As long as he isn't trying to fight on an ocean he is fine.



SSMG said:


> Why should you provide examples to your claims?
> 
> because that's how a debate works.
> 
> ...



I forgot more about debate than you will ever know kid.
Think for 2 seconds, and you will account countless examples.   That is if you can keep what you are asking for straight.


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## ChaddyMan1 (Aug 29, 2013)

Gai punches off Tsunade's Head GG


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## johnsuwey (Aug 29, 2013)

ChaddyMan1 said:


> Gai punches off Tsunade's Head GG



Lol, another blitz kid.


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## ChaddyMan1 (Aug 29, 2013)

johnsuwey said:


> Lol, another blitz kid.



It's no ordinary blitz though... IT'S THE GAIKAGE BLITZ

*Spoiler*: __


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## SSMG (Aug 29, 2013)

johnsuwey said:


> WTF are you talking about?  Gaara can make a desert anywhere he goes!  As long as he isn't trying to fight on an ocean he is fine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't doubt for a second that you forget.more about debating than i do
. it shows in every one of your posts.


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## Gaifangirl24 (Aug 29, 2013)

ChaddyMan1 said:


> Gai punches off Tsunade's Head GG





ChaddyMan1 said:


> It's no ordinary blitz though... IT'S THE GAIKAGE BLITZ
> 
> *Spoiler*: __



It hurts that I can't rep you for this.


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## ChaddyMan1 (Aug 29, 2013)

Gaifangirl24 said:


> It hurts that I can't rep you for this.



It happens Good Mam  Don't feel bad.


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## johnsuwey (Aug 29, 2013)

SSMG said:


> I don't doubt for a second that you forget.more about debating than i do
> . it shows in every one of your posts.



That is why you can't even write a coherent sentence properly.


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## ChaddyMan1 (Aug 29, 2013)

Gai turns Gaara's sand into glass with MP and the shards kill Gaara GG


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## johnsuwey (Aug 29, 2013)

Gai has 0% chance to defeat Gaara.
Kakashi said it himself, CQC fighters are at a huge disadvantage against long distance fighters like Deidara.


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## ChaddyMan1 (Aug 29, 2013)

johnsuwey said:


> Gai has 0% chance to defeat Gaara.
> Kakashi said it himself, CQC fighters are at a huge disadvantage against long distance fighters like Deidara.



Gai can cut through Gaara's sand with his bare hands and he has long distant attacks.


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## johnsuwey (Aug 29, 2013)

ChaddyMan1 said:


> Gai can cut through Gaara's sand with his bare hands and he has long distant attacks.



Long distance attacks that won't do shit to a huge wall of tightly packed sand.

Kimimaro's bones are harder than steel.   Gaara's sand breaks his hardest bone, as a kid.  Gai aint breaking through with his bare hands.

How in the hell is he going to attack with his bare hands anyways?  
Jump and hope Gaara doesn't move?  If he misses its a guaranteed loss.


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## ChaddyMan1 (Aug 29, 2013)

johnsuwey said:


> Long distance attacks that won't do shit to a huge wall of tightly packed sand.
> 
> Kimimaro's bones are harder than steel.   Gaara's sand breaks his hardest bone, as a kid.  Gai aint breaking through with his bare hands.
> 
> ...



Gaara can move as much as he wants it won't make a difference, to Gai he's just another fish in the barrel called life.

Gai's cut through Gaara's sand like it wasn't even there and he's only gotten stronger.

Steel means nothing to Gai, he's crushed solid stone in base and with the Gates activated he'd tear through it like paper.

His long distance attacks a far superior Gaara's.


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## johnsuwey (Aug 29, 2013)

ROFL!  You are hysterical.


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## Mithos (Aug 29, 2013)

*Tsunade*: Gai most likely loses. Her regeneration makes most of Gai's attacks ineffective. And while the Gates take their toll on Gai when he uses his powerful attacks, Tsunade faces no drawbacks until her chakra is gone - which won't be until long after Gai's body has succumb to the pressure of the Gates. Katsuyu is also a problem for Gai; her body makes her very good at absorbing blunt-force damage, which is what Gai exclusively deals out. Katsuyu is also an effective shield to negate, or significantly reduce, damage done to Tsunade. And can be used to shield her while she heals, if needed. With Katsuyu on the field, the chances of Gai taking Tsunade out before his Gates wear him down are slim in my opinion. 

*Mei*: Depends on the knowledge and circumstances, but I favor Mei most times. With no-little knowledge, Gai is eating acid mist and dying - he will approach and be melted. If he has knowledge of it, then the fight becomes a much closer battle. Afternoon Tiger should be able to disperse hidden mist and crash through Mei's defenses, so she must watch out for it. However, she is not defenseless: Mei has admitted that she can use Doton, so it is unlikely she cannot bury underground since it's a basic technique. Mei should also be able to create an earth wall - and if her Doton techniques are on the same level and scale as her Suiton techniques are, they should provide adequate protection against Afternoon Tiger and Morning Peacock. Gai's attacks will probably break the wall, but it should reduce the impact enough that they do not take her out or inflict severe damage.  While she doesn't have the "feats" to win if Gai has a lot of knowledge, we know enough about her to assume she can use some basic elemental techniques, which should give her the advantage. 

*Gaara*: This is basically Lee vs Gaara 2.0. Gaara's sand is now quite quick and it's very durable, so Gai will have trouble breaching his defenses. He would need Afternoon Tiger - but depending on how much sand Gaara has at his disposal, or has grinded, it may not take him out. AT failed to kill Kisame when it passed through Kisame's water attack, and I think Gaara's sand would reduce the attack's power much more than the water did. Gaara can also take flight with his sand, which puts Gai at a big disadvantage. His speed becomes meaningless if he cannot reach Gaara effectively; and attacks like MP and AT should be avoidable at a range. Gaara can win by either outlasting Gai's Gates, or by lasting long enough to grind large amounts of sand and overwhelm Gai while he stays airborne; Gai can win if he manages to break through Gaara's sand defenses with AT and wound him enough. I think Gaara would win more times out of ten, but Gai could win if the location and knowledge favor him. 

*Oonoki*: This is very circumstantial. If Oonoki gets airborne, Gai loses for sure. He won't be able to hit him and he'll have to avoid Jinton and whatever Doton techniques Oonoki throws at him. However, if Gai can manage to overwhelm Oonoki before he can take flight, he should win. I'm skeptical about Gai speed blitzing and killing Oonoki though because Oonoki should be able to burrow underground to escape, and from there he can come up in a different location and fly into the air. So Gai has a chance if the distance and knowledge favor him, but most situations Oonoki is too powerful for him. 

*A*: I don't see Gai winning against A, regardless of knowledge and situation. A is faster, has better reactions, more durable and physically stronger than 7th-Gate Gai. The only thing he lacks is a ranged offense, which Gai has with MP and AT. However, A's speed should allow him to avoid the brunt of those attacks - and his RnY should shield him from the rest, for the most part. I just see A as a better Gai; Gai is going to be beaten at his own game: overwhelming and beating down the opponent with high-speed taijutsu.

*Conclusion*: Gai loses to any of the Gokage the majority of the time, but he has a decent chance of defeating some of them if the circumstances favor him.


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## Miyamoto Musashi (Aug 29, 2013)

Gai should be able to stalemate all of the Gokage via the 8th gate.


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## Beast (Aug 29, 2013)

Gaara and maybe Tsunada.


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## Mithos (Aug 29, 2013)

I Am Probably Wrong said:


> Gai should be able to stalemate all of the Gokage via the 8th gate.



While that is probably true, the 8th Gate only gives him the chance to tie. He could still die without killing them. 

Suicide techniques aren't a good indication of power, either.


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## DemonicAvenger (Aug 29, 2013)

Gai beats


Tsunade
Hiruzen (Old)
Mei
4th Kazekage


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## Sadgoob (Aug 29, 2013)

With Seven Gates, I think he can beat most Kages. I suspect Eight Gate Gai can defeat any Kage that's not Hashirama.​


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## Lawrence777 (Aug 29, 2013)

Guy can beat Hiruzen, Mei, and Onoki.

Onoki is the strongest he can beat. Guy's speed is a hard counter.

Onoki would be obliterated before he can whip out substantial techniques or even go airborne.  If he does go airborne he gets blown out of the sky by Hirudora.

Tbh, I don't even think Onoki can hit Might Guy with any of his techniques, Guy's simply too fast.

The rest of the kage have counters to guy or are just on a different level.


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## Jad (Aug 30, 2013)

I'm going to have to say any of them (obviously I am talking about the current Gokage; Mei, Tsunade, *Onoki*, Gaara, *Ei *- definitely the bolded names are the most hardest fights, Mei being the easiest. Probably why I instinctively posted her fight first, not saying the the way I order my posts here on out is indicative to their position/rank battle-wise).

I will go back and re-organize my posts, make them chunkier, thicker, this is just a basic overview.

*Mei*: Taking on Mei without knowledge is definitely dangerous, but having the right tools can save you. While I have no idea where the location is, my default location is always just a great open green landscape with 15 mere's starting distance; similar to Kimimaro vs Lee. I think Mei won't start off with _Hidden mist_ or her _Acidic mist_. If you remember, one of her opening offensive techniques is her _Lava technique_ [1] (from a distance)[2]. Base Gai should have no problem avoiding that, and at 15 metere's range and with his speed it's going to immediately come into a close quarters clash, here I see Mei taking a pummeling. It will be with Gai's swift kick [3] that will give her injured self an opening by giving her distance. Now I stress that I am giving Mei benefit of the doubt, but she should be still heavily injured. A few attacks from a boulder shattering level of strength will do that to you, especially aimed at the head [4][5]. At this point we may see _Hidden Mist_ and _Acid Mist_, her first technique though should be _Acidic mist_. Do you think Gai would not capitalize on a downed opponent? He will close in and she will spray the place in attempt to melt Gai. I think the moment Gai feels that low level of Acidity at the start of her technique he will back away [6]. Especially if he notices the surrounding area being changed, considering his pretty observant of what is going around him; example noticing Naruto's endangerment even though he was in mid-combat and Naruto was far off in the distance [7] as well as the corrosive gas's ability [8]. I think at this point, even with Mei using _Hidden Mist_, Gai will be inclined to try and counter his changed surrounding with Gated techniques. He has done it before on a number of occasions:

He opened the 6th Gate when he was trapped underwater [9]
He countered Kisame's _1000 Shark ninjutsu with Morning Peacock_ [10]
He also countered the Six Tails _corrosive gas_ with _Morning Peacock_ [11]

So with the 6th Gate open to temporary displace the _Hidden Mist's _opening starter, which Gai should still comfortably see through, considering he and countless other fodder shinobi had no problem against Zabuza's version [12], on top of the fact that close to a chapter away it became a problem visibly [13] (even though Gai said that, they were still reacting to their attacks e.g. these shinobi blocking this guys blade [14]), then Gai should finish this with _Morning Peacock_. In addition the idea of using _Morning Peacock_ will give Mei no chance in reacting, there is no reason for me to believe she can defend her self in any sense of the word against his vastly superior speed.
*Ei*: I have already , although this is more to do with Gai's attacks verse Ei's toughness (I should use that word more than durability). I think I can be a bit more detailed in this post. I mean for one, Suigetsu and Juugo were reacting to Ei's punches in their scuffle with him [1] (as you can see Suigetsu was able to intercept from a distance a point blank punch from Ei) [2], two, his attacks are as fast as Darui's, three, Bee in base intercepted a point blank punch from Ei to Naruto, and at the same time Ei never used max Shunshin other than against Minato at start. Though that was because he knew his infamous name [3]. Ei never used it against Sasuke besides for Ameterasu [4] to [5], used a looser speed against Madara [6], and went max against Naruto at the end of their scuffle [7]. 

So Gai should be the same. Plus the information Gai can gathers from that small scuffle, which I have given reason as to why he should survive and react perfectly fine to Ei's attacks, should be enough of an indication to go gates, which you can then refer to my discussion link to see how that turns out. Also note, Ei cannot just simply flicker out of _Hirudora_ (and with no knowledge he doesn't know it can explode), he will still get hit. I never seen Ei flicker a huge distance, probably the furthest was when he went up against Naruto and tried to punch him with full force. Other times it was no more than 10 metere's (Minato example) to a few feet (Dodging Sasuke's Ameterasu).
*Tsunade:* Where do I even begin? You literally only need to google "tsunade jad narutoforums" and you will get the answer. I have profusely argued how Gai can defeat Tsunade with his gated techniques. I have used the argument of how Gai's _Morning Peacock's_ technique will not only pretty much override her regeneration because of the heat (the fanning of the flames to vaporize a Tsunami of water to then centralizing it to one point on a target), but also displace her bones through sheer strength and force which she cannot siphon out of her body or reform to their joints properly since her technique is specifically cell duplication. With the added bonus of two or three _Hirudora's_ (although one would suffice. Also let me make it clear that I say this because Gai used _Hirudora_ against Madara while uttery injured, out of juice, and did not slip in unconscious after it's use), the ability to defeat her is well within his realm. I can easily go back into this debate and list in even greater detail my points, but I want to go to my next point for a cleaner discussion that can perhaps be had.

*This KUNAI business*
I say this with conviction and the utmost clearness, if I were to agree with the assumption that Tsunade can survive those assaults (again, this is not to concede but to take another route), then Gai should still win with a Kunai and Gates. We have seen people like Orochimaru, where Itachi, who has no strength feats, can effortlessly cut their hands off with a Kunai [1][2]. So a Gated Gai, beyond the level of strength Itachi shows, wielding a Kunai which he indeed carries [3][4] and is not afraid to use foreign weapons [5], should be able to to do the same. Whether it is leaving the Kunai impaled to decapitation. Assaults she simply cannot defend against because of Gai's gated speeds that ignite the air due to the sheer friction he moves at. The fact of the matter is that there is this huge uproar that Gai would not use a Kunai - he carries them though. We have seen Ninja's, remember what Ninja's are, in the series use foreign weapons not used before. Tenten and the Bananafan, Shikamaru and the Tanto knife and Asuma's trench knives, Kakashi and Zabuza's sword, and who could forget Tsunade and Gama's large tanto knife? Why are people so against Gai wielding a Kunai all of a sudden? Again I stress what the word ninja means to people.

*Edit:* You guys are going to have to excuse me, this will take me longer than expected.


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## Meruem (Aug 30, 2013)

Well, he isn't going to beat Gaara because of matchup.  Gaara's sand is not so easy to "break through" as posters above keep saying.  He doesn't have to use it defensively the entire time, he can keep Gai on his toes for sure with it.  Gaara can probably survive a Hirudora if he blocks it with sand.  Gai also can't reach Gaara while he's flying very easily at all with most of his attacks.  Gai is on the same level as Gaara, he just can't take Gaara out because of matchup.  Onoki can pretty much just fly around far above Gai and spam Jinton, yet again this is a matchup issue.  Ei can avoid 7th gated Gai with superior speed and possibly even defeat him in CQC but Hirudora and Asa Kujaku will give him major problems.  Mei loses pretty easily unless it's a no knowledge fight in which case she still loses but not as easily.  Tsunade can regenerate through anything he can dish out besides maybe Hirudora and Katsuyu can help absorb the damage from that I think.  I don't think she'd need Katsuyu's help to live through it honestly though.  She is a bad matchup for him yet again because his close quarters combat skills aren't putting her down and she can just simply outlast him.


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## Veracity (Aug 30, 2013)

Oh yeah I forgot Jad doesn't like Tsunade. Didn't he say Asuma beats her? Funniest shit I've ever heard. And he was dead serious����


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## Jad (Aug 30, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> Oh yeah I forgot Jad doesn't like Tsunade. Didn't he say Asuma beats her? Funniest shit I've ever heard. And he was dead serious����



Reference my post perhaps - I don't remember which post you are referring. I do remember saying that though, but I did so with using a collection of both Asuma's and Tsunade's scans and comparing them (could be an old post though you are remembering). I do remember however saying Katsuya on Tsunade side would be a win for her quite clearly. I think you should stop assuming I hate a character, I never said I hated Tsunade.


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## trance (Aug 30, 2013)

Impressive post, Jad.


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## Jad (Aug 30, 2013)

Mr. E Man said:


> Impressive post, Jad.



I try my best man. Just trying to throw some points out there, see what happens.


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## Ersa (Aug 30, 2013)

Gai with his recent war feats and the 7th Gate is stronger then Mei, Tsunade and Gaara but just weaker then Ei and Oonoki, Ei because Ei is possibly faster and unlike Gai who is simply durable, Ei is pretty much a human meatshield, unless Gai manages to land Afternoon Tiger without getting caught in the explosion himself Ei murks him eventually, Oonoki is simply stronger due to being more versatile, flight and noted by Madara to be the most experienced and possibly most powerful of the Gokage.


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## Jad (Aug 30, 2013)

Kyokan said:


> *unless* Gai manages to land Afternoon Tiger without getting caught in the explosion himself



I believe Gai should be able to do it. He avoided it while he started underwater against Kisame.


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## Veracity (Aug 30, 2013)

Kyokan said:


> Gai with his recent war feats and the 7th Gate is stronger then Mei, Tsunade and Gaara but just weaker then Ei and Oonoki, Ei because Ei is possibly faster and unlike Gai who is simply durable, Ei is pretty much a human meatshield, unless Gai manages to land Afternoon Tiger without getting caught in the explosion himself Ei murks him eventually, Oonoki is simply stronger due to being more versatile, flight and noted by Madara to be the most experienced and possibly most powerful of the Gokage.



When was Onnoki ever mentioned to be the strongest Gokage?


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## FlamingRain (Aug 30, 2013)

Gai solos all with the 8th Gate by hype.

I'm just going to go over the currently reigning Kage:

*vs. The Slugging Queen*:

In a no-knowledge scenario, Gai won't activate the _Hachimon_ and Tsunade may not activate _Sōzō Saisei/Byakugō no Jutsu_. She may very well end it before the _Hachimon_ ever comes into the equation. Base for base, he possesses more pure skill in Taijutsu (though I think whatever skill disparity there is would be smaller than what others seem to). However, his style is still somewhat predictable while more experienced Tsunade specializes in predicting her opponent's moves and taking any afforded openings with strength vastly superior to his while he, often prone to blocking instead of dodging, will initially have no reason to believe he cannot block and continue his attack. So she should still be in that "competitive range" with him, and if she were to apply _Ranshinshō_ with a tap while parrying or grab onto his _Dynamic Entry_ or something the match would be hers for the taking.

In a manga or full knowledge scenario (I don't think it makes too big of a difference between those two), the _Hachimon_ will be released quickly. Tsunade would also pre-emptively activate _Byakugō no Jutsu_, more or less making outright killing her a lost cause. _Asakujaku_ and _Hirudora_ both rattle the target's body beyond such a point that it causes damage to their organs and kills them, but instantaneous regeneration of all organs and parts has this covered. Gai's body will continue to wear down while the only thing Tsunade is using up is chakra, and she has more than enough of it to outlast Gai considering her ability to sustain the grand majority of a village's worth of people seemingly twice over, or fight from day to night using a taxing regeneration technique while replenishing the chakra reserves of other Kages on multiple occasions. At some point she is bound to eventually tap, trade blows with, or outlast him.

Then there's the anti-physical attack slug that sprays acid: Seeing as individual miniature Katsuyus can get smacked by Pein's amplified _Shinra Tensei_ - the jutsu which had enough blunt force behind it to send the entirety of Konoha piling up on its own outskirts and even flooding through and well beyond its massive protective gates - and survive seemingly unfazed, how much more of a tank would a singular full-sized Katsuyu, thousands of times larger and with more substance than the miniatures, be? Or, to put things into perspective, if Tsunade, an already very durable individual, were melded into the very center of a full-sized Katsuyu, is a blunt force attack of _Asakujaku_ or _Hirudora's_ scale going to do anything meaningful at all to her? Sure, the slug could get picked up and carried off but as far as inflicted damage goes she's going to pretty much laugh at the Gai as far as I'm concerned.

Between her ultimate regeneration and anti-physical attack slug, Tsunade comes out on top with mid to potentially high difficulty.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Fair warning, if anybody quotes me with "_Asakujaku_ vaporizes Tsunade and Katsuyu" souls will rise in the morning. The concussive force is what kills people, not the flames. A human body, and a gargantuan magical slug, are a whole lot harder to vaporize than a body of water. Tsunade tanked the lightspeed travel that Mabui deemed a threat for Kages (she wasn't even completely sure Ay would get through it) instead of turning into ribbons and paste, the friction of which is a lot hotter than _Asakujaku_'s friction, and Katsuyu said she would have been just fine as well.




*vs. Gaara of the Desert*:

I'm actually going to go ahead and say that I don't agree with this "if he gets into the air" thing that pops up in Ohnoki, Deidara, and Gaara threads all the time. This never happens. Not a single one of them has just flown sky high so that they can rain attacks on their opponent as soon as the match begins. Ever. Deidara has a default height rising as he sees fit based off of his opponent's attack range as well as his own AoE. Ohnoki and Gaara seem to do something similar as they normally aren't too far above the ground and have only flown tremendously high against other airborne opponents (ironically, Deidara in both cases).

I've always believed that Gai was roughly to Kazekage Gaara what Lee was to Chūnin Selection Exams Gaara. That is, if we added two more gates and a longer duration of their use.

On Gai's end I think knowledge could even be considered almost irrelevant, because even if Gai refrains from utilizing the _Hachimon_ at match-start, all Gaara will have access to at this point in time is his gourd sand, which Gai should be perfectly capable of maneuvering around in base to avoid being crushed. Knowledge might benefit Gaara a little by telling him to get on his cloud and make a barrier, because his footspeed is. . .nonexistent. Though I don't think he can just bat it away anymore given that Gaara was able to block Ay's _Guillotine Drop_ (albeit it seemed to be strained by it). By the time Gaara really gets rolling after having ground up enough sand Gai will have had enough time to realize that it would be best to resort to the _Hachimon_ before he gets swamped, and I foresee Gaara's defenses being broken through by Gai's higher end gated assaults, with Gaara following.

Gaara is likely to win if the match takes place within Sunagakure or something, but it most likely wouldn't. Therefore it goes to Gai, with mid to high difficulty.

*vs. Unruly Ay*:

They have a weight-lifting contest.

A Raikage is basically what you get if Gai traded a bit of skill for increased physical stats. Even with the _Hachimon_ activated, none of Gai's techniques are capable of killing Ay standalone. Gai's best shot would be to launch a barrage (or two?) of _Asakujaku_ and follow it up with _Hirudora_ to break Ay down enough to finish him off before his _Hachimon_ runs into its time limit. Whilst Ay may have sidestepped a faster attack in _Amaterasu_, _Asakujaku/Hirudora_ cover a much wider area than that burst of black flame.

Concerning any close-quarters brawl (which it should come to seeing as Ay is superior in terms of direct movement speed and can only deal damage up close), Ay would have the edge. Gai still has more pure skill, but without knowledge he might get treated like Sasuke was while he's still in base when Ay tries to grab him after tanking a strike, but with no option of manifesting a protective ribcage before he gets slammed into the floor and no impressive durability to save him.

With both in their heightened forms, Gai has faster punches (ask Shoten Kisame about Asakujaku, Kisame about Hirudora, Suigetsu about Ay's chop, and Jugo about Ay's punch), but the big issue he faces is that Ay is durable enough that he can take these hits and keep fighting, especially with his _Raiton no Yoroi_. Meanwhile, Gai will either be killed or severely crippled by any strike from Ay whether he's using the _Hachimon_ or not, so trading blows is out of the question, and simply blocking results in (at the very least) one less limb Gai can attack with.

I'd side with Ay from mid to high difficulty. Gai simply needs to land more hits than Ay does, and his lack of advanced durability and comparatively low stamina only contribute more to Ay's achieving victory.

*vs. Meizukage*:

Gai does 1,000 push-ups with his dong and Mei falls in love. Gai wins Mei's heart. 

The Mizukage's arsenal is very much tailored to be anti-Taijutsu blitz, and she's displayed excellent jutsu execution speed against Madara. Whilst _Yōton: Yōkai no Jutsu_ can be dodged, how suddenly Gai closes in ought to tip Mei off to his speed and tell her to utilize her colossal _Suiton: Suijinchū/Suiton: Suiryūdan no Jutsu_ sequence instead of using more lava, after which she can take the the time afforded to her by his dodge to set up _Futton: Kōmu no Jutsu_. Without knowledge on it Gai may very well run into the exceedingly acidic mist thinking he'll be able to kill Mei before _Kirigakure_ manages to thicken and get his face melted off before he can do anything to her.

Thinking about it, even if he had knowledge I'm skeptical as to whether he can disperse the mist with the activation of either _Keimon_ or _Kyōmon_ if he didn't think of it against the Seven Swordsmen of the Mist (and if those explosions didn't blow any of it away). He could still try to use _Asakujaku_ from range, but the fireballs don't move as fast as Gai's fists, so she should be able to counter with chained Suitons without leaving her mist. And yes I know he evaporated a lot of Suiton sharks that Kisame threw at him, but it isn't like any of the fireballs got past it and hurt Kisame to suggest that they'd get past Mei's back-to-back Suitons. He'd have to go with _Hirudora_.

Gai with high-difficulty most of the time by merit of the fact that he'd be in his strongest form using his strongest jutsu in such a case.

*vs. Old man with Both of the Scales*:

I'm not sure Ohnoki would start out with _Jinton_ without knowledge, given Deidara's surprise that Ohnoki was resorting to it so early on (and Deidara is an S-rank criminal). I also don't believe Gai can dodge _Jinton_ consistently when Ohnoki can spin in a circle with his beams.

Though Ohnoki in all likelihood wouldn't be _*so*_ high in the air that Gai couldn't possibly reach him. _Jinton_ has a charge time so I'm sure Gai has a chance to get off _Asakujaku_ or _Hirudora_, and to erect a defense with a golem (which would still be destroyed if against _Hirudora_, though it should reduce the impact of the technique) would require the Tsuchikage to make contact with the ground first. It is also too big to just clone-feint out of. Indirect combat through golems isn't getting him anywhere either. Trying to lighten Gai into nothing or weigh him down too much to move is too risky because Gai is a lot more skilled in hand-to-hand combat, and Ohnoki's arms are very short compared to Gai's (duh, Ohnoki is very short compared to Gai).

In case _Jinton_ were to actually collide with _Asakujaku_ or _Hirudora_ I believe it would just going to keep going as opposed to stopping at the point of impact leading to Gai's vaporization.

Ohnoki should win, though Gai will give him a lot of difficulty.


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## Misaki Yata (Aug 30, 2013)

*Mei receives a cumshot from Gai after losing.

Ay would simply out last Gai if he decides to use his gates.

Gaara beats Gai, the moment Gaara goes into the air Gai becomes a sitting duck.

Onoki same as Gaara.

Tsunade tanks and outlasts Gai.

The only one Gai beats is Mei.*


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## IchLiebe (Aug 30, 2013)

Misaki Yata said:


> *Mei receives a cumshot from Gai after losing.
> 
> Ay would simply out last Gai if he decides to use his gates.
> 
> ...



Gai can get up in the air easily as shown when chasing Kisame.


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## Misaki Yata (Aug 30, 2013)

IchLiebe said:


> Gai can get up in the air easily as shown when chasing Kisame.


*
That won't let him stay in the air though and without Bee he wouldn't have gotten that far and high in the first place.Once he jumps from the summoning how does he move? Onoki can snipe him with Jinton and Gaara can grab him with his sand when Gai lands on the ground again.*


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## LostSelf (Aug 30, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> I'm actually going to go ahead and say that I don't agree with this "if he gets into the air" thing that pops up in Ohnoki, Deidara, and Gaara threads all the time. This never happens.



Actually, in Suna or in any desert, Gaara can fight pretty far from his opponent if he desires, though. He showed he could maneuver gigantic waves of sand from prettty far places while manipulating his own sand.


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## johnsuwey (Aug 30, 2013)

Misaki Yata said:


> *
> That won't let him stay in the air though and without Bee he wouldn't have gotten that far and high in the first place.Once he jumps from the summoning how does he move? Onoki can snipe him with Jinton and Gaara can grab him with his sand when Gai lands on the ground again.*



Pretty much this.
You can't fall faster than gravity accelerates you, which in this show is very slow.
He would be a sitting duck, GG.

If Guy is lucky he might be able to beat Mei more times than not.
That is it though.


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## Ryuzaki (Aug 30, 2013)

Anyone short of Hashirama is fair game.


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## Santoryu (Aug 30, 2013)

Gai can defeat any of the current Gokage; the final gate is not needed. We're talking about a man who can contend with V2 Jins (Sharingan-Rinnegan equipped) with the 6th gate alone, we're talking about the man who managed to give Uchiha Madara some trouble despite being exhausted-keep in mind that Madara admittedly wanted to get the fight over as soon as possible, he wasn't playing around like he was with the Kage for the most part, we're talking about a man who was comparable to the legendary copy Ninja for most of the series, albeit Kakashi is unequivocally superior now due to recent power ups/feats-however, even now it wouldn't surprise me if Gai could force a stalemate via the final gate, though it would be very difficult due to his opponent's ability to travel through dimensions, but enough of that, it's subjective who is the strongest out of the Gokage , they all have different abilities and Onoki's experience was indeed highlighted during the battle against Madara, but I'd say Gai could take him.


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## johnsuwey (Aug 30, 2013)

Santoryu said:


> Gai can defeat any of the current Gokage; the final gate is not needed. We're talking about a man who can contend with V2 Jins (Sharingan-Rinnegan equipped) with the 6th gate alone, we're talking about the man who managed to give Uchiha Madara some trouble despite being exhausted-keep in mind that Madara admittedly wanted to get the fight over as soon as possible, he wasn't playing around like he was with the Kage for the most part, we're talking about a man who was comparable to the legendary copy Ninja for most of the series, albeit Kakashi is unequivocally superior now due to recent power ups/feats-however, even now it wouldn't surprise me if Gai could force a stalemate via the final gate, though it would be very difficult due to his opponent's ability to travel through dimensions, but enough of that, it's subjective who is the strongest out of the Gokage , they all have different abilities and Onoki's experience was indeed highlighted during the battle against Madara, but I'd say Gai could take him.



By contend you mean luckily manage not to be raped by them.


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## Santoryu (Aug 30, 2013)

johnsuwey said:


> By contend you mean luckily manage not to be raped by them.



No, I don't; it was made painfully obvious that Gai did a good job against them-he was outnumbered, battle-worn, and still managed to land solid hits on them. Did I mention he didn't even utilize his most powerful attacks?


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## Miyamoto Musashi (Aug 30, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> Gai solos all with the 8th Gate by hype.
> 
> I'm just going to go over the currently reigning Kage:
> 
> ...



You're overrating Tsunade here. At the very least, it will be a high difficulty fight for the Slug Princess. You also said Tsunade should be able to predict Gai's fighting  style, when Tsunade's fighting style is probably one of the most  predictable in the Manga. Tsunade should win, but to the extent you think is very far fetched. And AT in the face very well could have the power to punch in Tsunade's head, which is, even for her, instant death.


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## Jad (Aug 30, 2013)

I Am Probably Wrong said:


> You're overrating Tsunade here. At the very least, it will be a high difficulty fight for the Slug Princess. You also said Tsunade should be able to predict Gai's fighting  style, when Tsunade's fighting style is probably one of the most  predictable in the Manga. Tsunade should win, but to the extent you think is very far fetched. And AT in the face very well could have the power to punch in Tsunade's head, which is, even for her, instant death.



He also didn't address that Gai could use a Kunai. Mabui said that Ei could go through the teleportation because of his lineage with the Third Raikage [Point 7]. Plus Mabui ninjutsu teleportation technique doesn't have any form of friction or heat on the body, considering objects that pass through it don't even emit a steam let alone catch on fire. Gai fanning out the flames of an enormous Tsunami wave of water, literally dwarfing his size and Kisame's, and in one panel vaporizing it, to now centralizing all that heat, and punches, to a single target would for sure beat Tsunade. Why is Tsunade given heat resistant properties to a technique of Morning Peacock's intensity when we have feats to back it up. Even Dosu notes, that the body is made up of 70% water, that is Kishi fact. The start of Part-2 Gai never had the intensity of an attack he has later on his second use of the technique. Now you factor in that Gai can do multiple Hirudora's, and can wield a kunai, Tsunade is not getting out of this alive. Not from what I have been reading in response. Also that whole Kusangi can't cut Tsunade bone, probably because of the amount of force Orochimaru put in was not enough (although I protest it just a slash that didn't make it all the way through her simply because of the angle), since obviously Kimimaro is the one with the strongest bodies in the manga who compares his bone to steel. His body was praised as the power-fullest and most perfect by Kabuto and was not contested by Orochimaru. Also considering Orochimaru, one of the most durable and tough bastards in the manga had his hand effortlessly cut off by Itachi wielding a Kunai who has no strength feats at all [1][2].

Also Tsunade's regeneration is not instant, you have to look at her closely to know that isn't true. Here is my discussion about that here [link will be provided]. Temporary links/explanation: You can see the healing aura around her starts here [3] and continues a page or two here [4]. Link four you can see the healing aura on the far right (near the Sand Pyramid). That indicates she is still healing, you even see a close up of her face when she talks that aura coming off her head. So to say her healing is instant, almost as quick as a snap of a finger even, is an overstatement. So there is no "_healing after every one punch Gai lands on her body_". Look, ignoring the Gated techniques, I have yet to see a solvable solution for Tsunade to avoid a 'Kunai burial'/assault from Gai using the upper-gates, it's something people avoid. Quote: Also, Gai "_ indeed carries Kunai's_ [5][6] _and is not afraid to use foreign weapons_ [7]"


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## johnsuwey (Aug 30, 2013)

Santoryu said:


> No, I don't; it was made painfully obvious that Gai did a good job against them-he was outnumbered, battle-worn, and still managed to land solid hits on them. Did I mention he didn't even utilize his most powerful attacks?



I don't see any battle worn Gai.
Looks like he luckily evades them.  He didn't really do shit to them.


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## Jad (Aug 30, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> *vs. Unruly Ay*:
> 
> They have a weight-lifting contest.
> 
> ...



You put a lot of effort in your posts, absolutely commend you on that, let's me read and understand where your coming from rather than just saying "Gai loses". So I take nothing away from that. My problem is you put emphasis on Ay surviving Gai's gated attacks because of his _*Raiton no Yoroi*_ (?), but what would happen if that isn't the case? There is proof that the _*Raiton no Yoroi*_ turns off when confronted with some form of force. Would you be willing to take a different stance? Because as I said, lots of people put a lot of emphasis on the _*Raiton no Yoroi*_ which I take it probably puts him above Gai in this fight (am I right?). Refer to my post here for a quick read, tell me what you think on the _*Raiton no Yoroi*_ stance []. Also, you didn't address the dousing of the flames on Ay, and how that could blind his movements while also continually damaging him.


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## Ryuzaki (Aug 31, 2013)

johnsuwey said:


> By contend you mean luckily manage not to be raped by them.


He held his own, that most of the other kages short of Gaara wouldn't really know how to handle them, let alone the monsters going full bijuu. Current Gokage can be easily solo'd by Gai without needing 8th Gate.


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## johnsuwey (Aug 31, 2013)

Ryuzaki said:


> He held his own, that most of the other kages short of Gaara wouldn't really know how to handle them, let alone the monsters going full bijuu. Current Gokage can be easily solo'd by Gai without needing 8th Gate.



The other kage could have easily accomplished as much as Gai has, which thus far is not dying.


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## FlamingRain (Aug 31, 2013)

I Am Probably Wrong said:


> You're overrating Tsunade here. At the very least, it will be a high difficulty fight for the Slug Princess. You also said Tsunade should be able to predict Gai's fighting  style, when Tsunade's fighting style is probably one of the most  predictable in the Manga. Tsunade should win, but to the extent you think is very far fetched. And AT in the face very well could have the power to punch in Tsunade's head, which is, even for her, instant death.



Well, I said _"mid to potentially high"_. If I'm using your reply as a gauge my view isn't _too_ different than yours, is it? Unless the difference between _"mid"_ and _"high"_ difficulty is larger for you than it is for me.

My claim that she should be able to predict Gai wasn't meant to suggest that she herself was any less predictable than he was. She doesn't have to be more unpredictable than somebody to be able to predict them. I think Tsunade being one of the most predictable in the manga is a gross exaggeration, however.

Finally, as for the _AT_ to the face thing, I personally doubt it. But I'm one of the few who believes she could survive a headshot/decapitation. Even the removal of the head in its entirety is not literally _"instant"_ death, as it still takes several seconds for consciousness to be lost, and seconds more for the body to actually shut down. Being split in half is about as _"instant"_ as headshot gg, yet Tsunade survived in base for an extended amount of time due to her unique lineage.

I think things that _"hit you and then you die a few seconds later"_, Tsunade can survive, especially as a Senju/Uzumaki hybrid. We've seen time and again that the chakra/soul system of this manga can override the need for what would otherwise be mandatory bodily structures for certain special ninjas. Suigetsu can turn himself, head included, into water; Konan can turn herself, head included, into paper; Sasori is just a heart container surviving without a brain yet retaining his intelligence somehow; I think it's implied that a headshot wouldn't kill Kakuzu despite him supposedly still having a brain, because why bother making such a big deal about taking out all five of his hearts if you can just hit him in the head once and be done. They differ in terms of method, but they're still examples of exceptions. There's also the fact that Tobirama didn't instantly "die" when half of his head was disintegrated by Juubito. _Edo Tensei_ have shown the ability to "die" before they regenerate, _(1)_ _(2)_, _(3)_ so I believe this could simply be Tobirama's Senju heritage at work here. On the Uzumaki side, immediately post-childbirth Kushina survived having a Bijuu ripped out of her, and that alone is supposed to be _"instant death"_. I would be surprised if the ultimate Jutsu of the woman descended from both of these clans and who can heal souls, said to recreate _all_ organs and parts, wouldn't be able to rely on said apparent chakra/soul system long enough to allow her to survive.

And to clarify: no, I'm not saying I believe Tsunade is unkillable, I definitely think she can be killed even with her ultimate regeneration active. I simply don't think aiming for her head is a solution.




Jad said:


> You put a lot of effort in your posts, absolutely commend you on that, let's me read and understand where your coming from rather than just saying "Gai loses". So I take nothing away from that. My problem is you put emphasis on Ay surviving Gai's gated attacks because of his _*Raiton no Yoroi*_ (?), but what would happen if that isn't the case? There is proof that the _*Raiton no Yoroi*_ turns off when confronted with some form of force. Would you be willing to take a different stance? Because as I said, lots of people put a lot of emphasis on the _*Raiton no Yoroi*_ which I take it probably puts him above Gai in this fight (am I right?). Refer to my post here for a quick read, tell me what you think on the _*Raiton no Yoroi*_ stance []. Also, you didn't address the dousing of the flames on Ay, and how that could blind his movements while also continually damaging him.



Well I appreciate the comment. 

If _RnY_ didn't make Ay durable enough to fight through Gai's assault, he'd lose. And yes I'd be willing to take a different stance. But it held up through being stabbed with _Chidori_, and his arm burning with _Enton_.

I'm not sure where Bee is "bypassing" the shroud, it looks to me like he's just smashing against it. I don't think that Ay's shroud turned off because of the force of Bee's lariat in those examples. True, Ay seems to have felt _something_, but I doubt he felt more than he did when _Chidori_ actually managed to pierce his armor, or when _Amaterasu_ was burning his arm. I think the only reason the shroud turned off was because Ay was shocked at his brother trying to stop him, and then shocked at actually being outmuscled.

I'm also not sold on _Keimon_ Gai is stronger than base Bee because of tripping _GM_. That "_Pinky Attack_" seemed like the equivalent of somebody stubbing their toe on something and stumbling. It isn't like he up and swept _GM_'s legs out from under him. I think the fact that Bee can brawl with Ay in base means he isn't weaker than Gai.

I didn't address dousing the flames because I doubt Ay's body would remain on fire for more than a few seconds.

Flames tend to go out shortly after on anything that isn't Amaterasu _(6)_, _(7)_, _(8)_, _(9)_.

Kisame's flames went out after he hit the water but I don't think that suggests that the water was necessary for the flames to stop. I'm like certain that _Asakujaku_'s reliant upon concussive damage and the flames are a mere aftereffect.


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## FlamingRain (Aug 31, 2013)

Jad said:


> He also didn't address that Gai could use a Kunai. Mabui said that Ei could go through the teleportation because of his lineage with the Third Raikage [Point 7]. Plus Mabui ninjutsu teleportation technique doesn't have any form of friction or heat on the body, considering objects that pass through it don't even emit a steam let alone catch on fire. Gai fanning out the flames of an enormous Tsunami wave of water, literally dwarfing his size and Kisame's, and in one panel vaporizing it, to now centralizing all that heat, and punches, to a single target would for sure beat Tsunade. Why is Tsunade given heat resistant properties to a technique of Morning Peacock's intensity when we have feats to back it up. Even Dosu notes, that the body is made up of 70% water, that is Kishi fact. The start of Part-2 Gai never had the intensity of an attack he has later on his second use of the technique. Now you factor in that Gai can do multiple Hirudora's, and can wield a kunai, Tsunade is not getting out of this alive. Not from what I have been reading in response. Also that whole Kusangi can't cut Tsunade bone, probably because of the amount of force Orochimaru put in was not enough (although I protest it just a slash that didn't make it all the way through her simply because of the angle), since obviously Kimimaro is the one with the strongest bodies in the manga who compares his bone to steel. His body was praised as the power-fullest and most perfect by Kabuto and was not contested by Orochimaru. Also considering Orochimaru, one of the most durable and tough bastards in the manga had his hand effortlessly cut off by Itachi wielding a Kunai who has no strength feats at all [1][2].



It's a lot harder to vaporize the substance of a human body than a body of pure liquid.

The translations I've read over suggested that Mabui wasn't sure that Ay could get through it _(1)_. I'm not sure which would be more reliable but I also remember that the Storm 3 game translated into her saying something along the lines of "Ay _might_ be able to handle it" because he was the son of the Sandaime Raikage.

I don't think the objects that pass through _Tensō no Jutsu_ are reliable indicators either, because the jutsu was _designed for_ the transportation of items. The jutsu is dangerous because of how _fast_ the transportation is _(2)_, and if _Tensō no Jutsu_ doesn't produce friction then I fail to see how the Jutsu would possibly be hazardous to humans. Friction is the entire reason such a high speed is life-threatening. Tsunade also seemed to have burns on her face _(3)_.

I think the statement about Kimimaro's body being the most powerful was speaking about the bodies _within Orochimaru's possession_, and at least primarily referring to the _Kekkei Genkai_ abilities Kimimaro possessed. Out of all of Orochimaru's underlings, Kimimaro did have the best body. Until Sasuke came along with his _Sharingan_, that is. And even I'm interpreting that part wrong, Sandaime Raikage's skin was compared to steel and his blood to iron _(4)_, but he can tank a lot of stuff that would destroy steel/iron casually. Sakura shattered iron _Satetsu_ spikes _(5)_ yet didn't shatter Sasori's face. "As hard as/like steel" is simply denoting good durability in general using simile, it isn't literal language referring to physical steel as an accurate measurement of durability. Kimimaro's body is in all likelihood notably stronger than actual steel, and still inferior to Sandaime Raikage's despite them being compared to the same substance. Even Gai's body was compared to steel in the databook iirc and it didn't stop him from coughing up blood when hit by Shoten Kisame.

I've considered and paid attention to the angle at which Orochimaru performed his slashes, the length of his sword, how close he is to Tsunade and where his feet are positioned. He stepped forward enough that he was in such a position that he should have cleaved Tsunade's upper body from left shoulder to right side right off he had actually been capable of such _(6)_, and considering that Orochimaru was able to push KN4 across the battlefield and into a cliff as opposed to pushing his own head in the opposite direction, his neck muscles are pretty dang strong. So I doubt the force behind these slashes was inferior to what Sasuke dished out against Danzō.

Assuming that Orochimaru had experimented with his body and reached his current level of durability back when he first confronted Itachi all those years ago, I think that most of Orochimaru's durability stems from the incredible amount of _elasticity_ that his body modifications have afforded him, which makes him very resistant to attacks that crush but not as much against attacks that slice.



> Also Tsunade's regeneration is not instant, you have to look at her closely to know that isn't true. Here is my discussion about that here [link will be provided]. Temporary links/explanation: You can see the healing aura around her starts here [3] and continues a page or two here [4]. Link four you can see the healing aura on the far right (near the Sand Pyramid). That indicates she is still healing, you even see a close up of her face when she talks that aura coming off her head. So to say her healing is instant, almost as quick as a snap of a finger even, is an overstatement. So there is no "_healing after every one punch Gai lands on her body_". Look, ignoring the Gated techniques, I have yet to see a solvable solution for Tsunade to avoid a 'Kunai burial'/assault from Gai using the upper-gates, it's something people avoid. Quote: Also, Gai "_ indeed carries Kunai's_ [5][6] _and is not afraid to use foreign weapons_ [7]"



I know her regeneration isn't _"instant"_ in the literal sense, but it's still stupidly fast.

The "aura" you point out I believe is just steam. Wounds heat up notably as they heal while Tsunade is performing several years worth of healing at once, so much so that it creates steam as a result, and . . . steam lingers. I know the anime isn't canon, but the way it depicted _Sōzō Saisei_ regenerating Tsunade's wounds during the Sannin showdown appeared to be steam simply rising up after the red "aura" that was present during the jutsu's activation had disappeared. Looking up the wikia picture: _(7)_.

I wasn't attempting to suggest that she would have restored the damage from _each punch_ as quickly as Gai dishes them out during _Asakujaku_. I think she would survive the technique by virtue of astonishing resilience and _then regenerate whatever damage remains_ once the serial of punches is finished. I was saying that rattled up organs can be fixed by a technique that perpetually regenerates said organs, not that she can heal each punch as quick as they come, apologies for any confusion.

I didn't go over Gai wielding a kunai because I find it hard to picture. _Could_ he? Yes of course. _Would_ he? I highly doubt as much. He is like Yoruichi Shihōin from _Bleach_. That blade isn't coming out for the life of him. databook has even emphasized that Gai favors blunt assaults iirc. Every weapon we have seen him use in combat has been blunt (Samehada is a "sword", but it was completely wrapped up when Gai tried to use it). If Gai wants to use a kunai to distract Tsunade from a follow-up blunt force strike that's not going to affect this match too much.


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## Miyamoto Musashi (Aug 31, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> Well, I said _"mid to potentially high"_. If I'm using your reply as a gauge my view isn't _too_ different than yours, is it? Unless the difference between _"mid"_ and _"high"_ difficulty is larger for you than it is for me.
> 
> My claim that she should be able to predict Gai wasn't meant to suggest that she herself was any less predictable than he was. She doesn't have to be more unpredictable than somebody to be able to predict them. I think Tsunade being one of the most predictable in the manga is a gross exaggeration, however.
> 
> ...


To me, there is a big difference between mid and high difficulties. Even if it is mid to high, it still means Tsunade wins fairly comfortably, which is silly. And Byakugo regenerates at a cellular level, by dividing Tsunade's cells at an accelerated speed. But, only 50% of brains divide into new ones, and that takes an incredibly long time. So, Tsunade shouldn't be able to survive a headshot. And, by the off-chance that she did, the chances of her being in fighting condition after something like that are slim to none. And come on now, get real, do you honestly see Tsunade losing her head, and then magically grow a new one, and then proceed to be able to actually fight her opponent. Sounds ridiculous to me. By the way, if a headshot doesn't kill her, then what the hell does? You said there was a way to kill her even with her regen, so what would those ways be?


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## Empathy (Aug 31, 2013)

Out of the current Kage: Mei, definitely. Gaara and Tsunade are more toss-ups if Gai could overwhelm their defenses before he's outlasted. Gai is mid-tier Akatsuki level at his best, given his respective encounters and portrayal against the likes of Kisame or Deidara. His capabilities don't contradict such placement.



Santoryu said:


> Gai can defeat any of the current Gokage; the final gate is not needed. We're talking about a man who can contend with V2 Jins (Sharingan-Rinnegan equipped) with the 6th gate alone,



Given their attacks couldn't tear a man like Kakashi in half, his feats could've been replicated by any of the current Kage save Mei and maybe Onoki. 



> we're talking about the man who managed to give Uchiha Madara some trouble despite being exhausted-keep in mind that Madara admittedly wanted to get the fight over as soon as possible, he wasn't playing around like he was with the Kage for the most part,



Gai was able to push a lower level of _Susanoo_ (the same level each of the Kage fended off times five) away with his greatest technique. He couldn't give Madara any realistic trouble and is definitely not more of a serious threat than the collective five Kage. Madara's carelessness literally cost him an arm and leg against the latter.


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## FlamingRain (Aug 31, 2013)

I Am Probably Wrong said:


> To me, there is a big difference between mid and high difficulties. Even if it is mid to high, it still means Tsunade wins fairly comfortably, which is silly.



Well. . ."mid to high" doesn't mean "fairly comfortably" to me, so. . .



> By the way, if a headshot doesn't kill her, then what the hell does? You said there was a way to kill her even with her regen, so what would those ways be?



The description of the jutsu, by telling us of its strength also tells us of its weakness, because it informs us that said strength is largely a result of replication (though it says "regeneration _and_ generation" , and you cannot replicate nothing, so attacks that can obliterate Tsunade's entire body leaving absolutely no corpse (or leave only a tiny piece, like what was left of Human after FRS), such as Ohnoki's _Jinton_, Deidara's _C3_, or a _Bijuudama_, would definitely succeed in killing her. Fūinjutsu would render her regeneration irrelevant, so Nagato's _Human_ path, Itachi's _Totsuka no Tsurugi_, 3rd and 4ths _Shiki Fūjin_, etc. Hashirama's wooden giants would turn her into paste, as would Madara's higher level _Susano'o_, etc, etc, etc.

Shino's bug might since it would feed on the chakra she's regenerating with?

The jutsu can be exhausted and end = you win, but idk if that's what you mean by "with her regen".


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## Miyamoto Musashi (Aug 31, 2013)

Even if you do believe a headshot doesn't kill her, which, frankly, is unbelievable, then what makes you think she will still be able to beat or at least still be able to give a good fight after something such as decapitation or a hole through her head? And space/time ninjutsu, such as Kamui, should be one of the best ways to end her.


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## FlamingRain (Aug 31, 2013)

I Am Probably Wrong said:


> Even if you do believe a headshot doesn't kill her, which, frankly, is unbelievable, then what makes you think she will still be able to beat or at least still be able to give a good fight after something such as decapitation or a hole through her head?



Her regeneration would have made it as if she had never been hit in the head if she were to have survived, though?



> And space/time ninjutsu, such as Kamui, should be one of the best ways to end her.



True, I see it as being pretty much the same as a sealing jutsu, though, since it warps you into another dimension you can't escape.


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## Miyamoto Musashi (Aug 31, 2013)

By that time, her seal would not have enough chakra left in it, even after 3 years, for her to sustain it much longer. Also, she wasn't doing to great after she was bisected. And by the whole vaporization logic, Minato can't beat her, only tie with her.


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## LostSelf (Aug 31, 2013)

Jad said:


> He also didn't address that Gai could use a Kunai.



This part... I still think it would be very stupid for Gai, if he knows that his attacks are not killing her and doesn't attempt decapitation.

He's not the smartest shinobi out there, but he's not that dumb, i guess no one is.


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## Laozy (Aug 31, 2013)

A character is only as strong *as Kishi decides they should be*.

Kishi gets across his point by emphasis and implication - i.e. character reactions + their prowess in battle.

You can't judge characters by _feats_ because their capabilities and performance varies *massively* throughout the series.


*For example:* Kakashi vs. Deva Pein

When Kakashi fought him, Pein stood around like a moron without any CQC capabilities whatsoever and instead relied completely on his Deva Path powers and the Asura Path body.

Whereas only a while later he was *speeding downriver at about 200 mph* and throwing around *skyscraper-sized boulders*, blocking BM Naruto punches with his *bare hands* and avoiding/ dispelling *machine-gun Bijuu-dama projectiles*.

Whereas poor old Jiraiya took _one_ BM Naruto punch and was left wheezing on the floor, half-dead.

Based on this, Pein should have pretty much been able to '_blitz_' - a phrase you guys all love to use - both Kakashi and Choji within a matter of seconds, without having to resort to the Asura Path body.


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## Laozy (Aug 31, 2013)

My point being: Gai wouldn't be able to solo any of the Hokage because he doesn't have the '*Kishi factor*'.

In other words, he hasn't been referred to/ complemented as strong enough to defeat any of them.

A has been hailed as: "Amazingly fast!", "Amazing!", "I can't see his movements!" countless times. His *implied speed* is hundreds of times greater than Gai's. This would, in fact, be the case should they ever clash.


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## Legendary Itachi (Aug 31, 2013)

Laozy said:


> A character is only as strong *as Kishi decides they should be*.
> 
> Kishi gets across his point by emphasis and implication - i.e. character reactions + their prowess in battle.
> 
> ...



Hey, you have a point here, but that example is bad......

Since Anime Deva isn't anywhere the same as Manga Deva lol. 
GG blitzes everyone and lets them feel his Pain.

And that's not BM Naruto, but rather similar to V2 Version.

If going to Hokages, he can solo old Hiruzen but that's all. I don't think Gai can defeat Tsunade who has supreme durability and regenerating ability. Other 3 outclass him easily, prime Hiruzen, although 0 feats, is still > Gai by hype.

Current Kages, he can defeat Mei and Gaara with 7 Gates in high difficulty.

Strongest one? Gaara should be the strongest one Gai can solo.


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## Gaifangirl24 (Aug 31, 2013)

Laozy said:


> A character is only as strong *as Kishi decides they should be*.
> 
> Kishi gets across his point by emphasis and implication - i.e. character reactions + their prowess in battle.
> 
> ...



Using a filler scene to as evidence to how *Kishi *portrays his characters


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## Laozy (Aug 31, 2013)

Didn't start reading manga until Madara gets summoned, so you'll have to forgive me on that one..

I'll give you another example when I can be arsed I.e. tomorrow


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## zimmawannatuba (Aug 31, 2013)

Laozy said:


> A character is only as strong *as Kishi decides they should be*.
> 
> Kishi gets across his point by emphasis and implication - i.e. character reactions + their prowess in battle.
> 
> ...


You are correct.  Pein wasn't really even trying.  That is how much of a non threat Kakashi was.
Gai would have faired no better, and probably worse.

If lower class shinobi could have handled Pein, then the leaf wouldn't have gotten destroyed in the first place.


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