# Young Xehanort vs Caius Ballad



## Bender (Sep 21, 2012)

The conditions which Caius Ballad can only be defeated are removed from this battle. 

Young Xehanort has the badass attacks from optional boss fight from KH BBS Final Mix and KH 3D. In a fight who wins?


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## Ulti (Sep 21, 2012)

Wasn't this done before with Caius kicking his ass?

With recent calcs Caius kicks ass even harder imo


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## Adamant soul (Sep 21, 2012)

Not really well versed with KH feats outside of KH1 and 2 so could I see some feats and abilities for Young Xehanort. I'll assume he is the most powerful form of Xehanort yet.


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## Adamant soul (Sep 21, 2012)

The Penetrator said:


> Wasn't this done before with Caius kicking his ass?
> 
> With recent calcs Caius kicks ass even harder imo



That was a thread I made vs Master Xehanort, Young Xehanort from what I hear is much stronger so this might be interesting.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Sep 21, 2012)

Adamant soul said:


> Not really well versed with KH feats outside of KH1 and 2 so could I see some feats and abilities for Young Xehanort. I'll assume he is the most powerful form of Xehanort yet.



Brohan did a bunch of KH calcs on his blog


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## Ulti (Sep 21, 2012)

Oh right my bad, I'll stay out of it then.


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## Toriko (Sep 21, 2012)

How strong is Caius? Haven't really played XII-2 yet. Xehanort is double digit hypersonic, is well into town level, and has a bunch of broken abilities.

Not to mention he's probably a better swordsman, if he's around Lightning's level in skill like I'm assuming he is.


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## Bender (Sep 21, 2012)

The Penetrator said:


> Wasn't this done before with Caius kicking his ass?
> 
> With recent calcs Caius kicks ass even harder imo



Wrong

That fight was with Master Xehanort. Plus, MX's most broken feats are with his young self. 

Young Xehanort stomps. Especially considering he can resist time stop and inflict on other people.



> Young Xehanort has the ability to control time with enough precision to manipulate the flow of battle, either by slowing the opponent while unleashing a multitude of swift, powerful strikes, or reversing the flow of time to recover from damage.



Dude is ridiculously badass. 

A more specific description of Young Xehanort's skills:

Spear orbs: Summons several orbs that fire spears of energy at the protagonist from every direction. This attack can continue during the Unknown's other attacks.
Sonic Blade: Quickly darts around the battlefield, knocking the protagonist high into the air when he hits them.
Whirlwind to the void: Summons a tornado that scatters the protagonist's Deck Commands when it hits them.
Vanish: Becomes invisible, and cannot be locked-on - though it is still possible to track him via his blades, which are only visible when he attacks.
Raging Storm: Summons three vortexes of flame around himself and hovers around the battlefield. The flames stun the protagonist when they hit them. In later phases of the battle, he will combine Raging Storm with some of his other abilities, usually his Long Combo.
Summon copies: Summons four copies of himself to overwhelm the player. All of them have every single one of his abilities (except for Vanish, and naturally, this one), and there is no set pattern to which attacks they use when. Can easily be defeated by a clean hit, however.
Mega Flare: Summons a huge sphere of flames that explodes, inflicting massive damage and sometimes igniting the protagonist.
Meteor: Summons a meteor to fall on the battlefield and explode.
Doom: Fires a web of energy at the protagonist and starts a five second countdown. The player must rapidly tap X to end the attack, and if the countdown reaches zero they are defeated.
Collision Magnet: Leaps into the air and casts out a lasso of energy that snares the protagonist and pulls them toward him for a quick slash. In the Final Mix version of the game, Xehanort's Collision Magnet was weakened to make it easier to dodge.
Renewal Barrier: If the player attacks him head-first without an opening, or attacks constantly with a long combo, he will parry the player's attack and recover a bit of health.


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## Bender (Sep 21, 2012)

Brohan said:


> How strong is Caius? Haven't really played XII-2 yet. Xehanort is double digit hypersonic, is well into town level, and has a bunch of broken abilities.



I'll tell you this much: if Master Xehanort is able to lay waste to a world with a simple stroke of the arm then it's only logical to say that Young Xehanort can do the same. Also even after being beaten by Riku in TWTNW in the cutscene afterwards he's shown to be completely uninjured and sitting alongside the other forms of Xehanort.


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## Ulti (Sep 21, 2012)

Caius is bordering small city level, has his fair share of broken abilities though he's slower.


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## Adamant soul (Sep 21, 2012)

Brohan said:


> How strong is Caius? Haven't really played XII-2 yet. Xehanort is double digit hypersonic, is well into town level, and has a bunch of broken abilities.
> 
> Not to mention he's probably a better swordsman, if he's around Lightning's level in skill like I'm assuming he is.



Caius is Mach 7 so Xenahort has a speed advantage and is also well into town level, his strongest attack (his meteor) borders on small city level. He has quite a few broken abilities himself though is time h4x really doesn't work on Young Xehanort then he might have a problem though likewise Young Xehanort's time h4x won't work on Caius either.

Caius' Chaos Bahamut form is also much more durable than his base form. He tanked the force of his own megaflare at point blank, an attack which by virtue of Lightning's reaction to it and Odin feeling the need to use a barrier to bloc it for her should be at least as strong if not stronger than his base form's meteor attack.

What kind of h4x does Young Xehanort have exactly, though with his speed advantage plus immunity to time h4x he has a good chance of winning this.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 21, 2012)

KH is double digits HS+ ? 


link calczors plx


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## Bender (Sep 21, 2012)

The Penetrator said:


> Caius is bordering small city level, has his fair share of broken abilities though he's slower.



Translation: Weaksauce


Unless Caius can pull out some sort of miraculous ability which enables him to resist being slowed down or prevent a time reversal he loses. Even then the inevitable happens


*Spoiler*: __ 



He loses.


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## Ulti (Sep 21, 2012)

His multitude of flare attacks pack quite a punch


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## Adamant soul (Sep 21, 2012)

Bender said:


> Translation: Weaksauce
> 
> 
> Unless Caius can pull out some sort of miraculous ability which enables him to resist being slowed down or prevent a time reversal he loses. Even then the inevitable happens
> ...



Caius is immune to time h4x .


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## Toriko (Sep 21, 2012)

Adamant soul said:


> Caius is Mach 7 so Xenahort has a speed advantage and is also well into town level, his strongest attack (his meteor) borders on small city level. He has quite a few broken abilities himself though is time h4x really doesn't work on Young Xehanort then he might have a problem though likewise Young Xehanort's time h4x won't work on Caius either.
> 
> Caius' Chaos Bahamut form is also much more durable than his base form. He tanked the force of his own megaflare at point blank, an attack which by virtue of Lightning's reaction to it and Odin feeling the need to use a barrier to bloc it for her should be at least as strong if not stronger than his base form's meteor attack.
> 
> What kind of h4x does Young Xehanort have exactly, though with his speed advantage plus immunity to time h4x he has a good chance of winning this.



They seem about equal to me honestly, stat wise.

Though like you said, timestop doesn't work on him, so Caius is sort of going to get bent over with repeated timestop damage.


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## Ulti (Sep 21, 2012)

Can't Caius time travel?

Or is that only under certain conditions or whatever


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## Adamant soul (Sep 21, 2012)

The Penetrator said:


> Can't Caius time travel?
> 
> Or is that only under certain conditions or whatever



Well if I remember right wasn't it Caius screwing up the timeline by making paradoxes that caused the gates to appear in the first place? So yeah pretty much, time h4x is no more effective against Caius than it is against Xehanort.


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## Bender (Sep 21, 2012)

The Penetrator said:


> His multitude of flare attacks pack quite a punch



Caius's or YMX? 

YMX surpasses the Lingering Sentiment in brokenness (who was at the time of KHII FM's release the strongest secret boss). And if you look at KH II FM and people noting how much of a ridiculous pain in the ass he is can how much of an accomplishment that is.


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## Ulti (Sep 21, 2012)

I was talking about Caius

Megaflare, gigaflare, exaflare and teraflare


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## Adamant soul (Sep 21, 2012)

Bender said:


> Caius's or YMX?
> 
> YMX surpasses the Lingering Sentiment in brokenness (who was at the time of KHII FM's release the strongest secret boss). And if you look at KH II FM and people noting how much of a ridiculous pain in the ass he is can how much of an accomplishment that is.



I hope you realize how difficult a boss is to fight in gameplay has no bearing on their actual stats. Caius is easier to fight than Barthandelus from the first XIII yet it is absurd to think super pope could defeat Caius. Heck to use a KH example Sephiroth is harder than Twilight Xemnas yet Xemnas is blatantly stated to be stronger.


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## Ulti (Sep 21, 2012)

Canon Sephy kicks the shit out of Xemnas though


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## Adamant soul (Sep 21, 2012)

The Penetrator said:


> Canon Sephy kicks the shit out of Xemnas though



Canon Sephy at this point could solo the entire KH verse


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## Ulti (Sep 21, 2012)

I remember that thread too, shit was hilarious.

I wonder if CD remembers


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## Toriko (Sep 21, 2012)

KH's power is nothing to scoff at really, there were pulverized mountains and craters all over the Keyblade Graveyard, all made by people weaker than Xehanort or his alter egos.


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## Ulti (Sep 21, 2012)

Sephiroth at this point is a Mach 56 fucker packing 80 gigatons of magic


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## Adamant soul (Sep 21, 2012)

Anyway to get back on topic, what happens if Caius decides to transform into Chaos Bahamut and take to the skies? Can Young Xehanort fly? What kind of range does he have on his attacks? 

In other words can he do anything to prevent a forecast of raining megaflares? 

Anyway at this point, I'm leaning towards Young Xehanort, Mach 7 vs Mach 15 Xehanort has a 2x speed advantage and is comparable in stats and h4x. Caius' only real chance is the strategy I gave above. If that doesn't work I concede to Young Xehanort winning.


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## Bender (Sep 21, 2012)

Adamant soul said:


> I hope you realize how difficult a boss is to fight in gameplay has no bearing on their actual stats.



Uh yeah I know. I'm merely stating how strong YMX is in term of gameplay




> Heck to use a KH example Sephiroth is harder than Twilight Xemnas yet Xemnas is blatantly stated to be stronger.



Ahem

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bFG1eCoVao[/YOUTUBE]

Level 48 patna. Even though the usual recommended level 48.


@Sephiroth talk

The dude is an overrated ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".). 

Kefka is the only real badass amongst FF villies. 

@Adamant Soul


Of course YMX can fly. The ability glide? Nearly every boss, plus playable character possesses the ability. Also considering how braig/Xigbar is technically one of Xehanort's clones it makes sense saying YMX can fly.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 21, 2012)

which calc puts KH @ Mach 15 ?

I wanna see :33


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## Adamant soul (Sep 21, 2012)

Bender said:


> Uh yeah I know. I'm merely stating how strong YMX is in term of gameplay
> 
> 
> 
> ...



More people find Sephiroth harder on average than Twilight Xemnas. I personally didn't, the only thing that makes Seph slightly more annoying is more health.

I couldn't agree more with the overrated part, Caius rates infinitely higher on the badass scale IMO. There is a reason I have a Caius set 

Then that settles it then, Xehanort should win here. Caius might put up somewhat of a fight but the speed advantage is overwhelming so he'll go down in the end.


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## Bender (Sep 21, 2012)

Adamant soul said:


> More people find Sephiroth harder on average than Twilight Xemnas. I personally didn't, the only thing that makes Seph slightly more annoying is more health.



Twilight Xemnas was only pain in the ass when you didn't have that many potions and etc on hand. Also the reason Twilight Xemnas is story-wise the strongest in KH during the KHII period is because of how he absorbed KH. To back-up the whole easy boss fight thing he does technically deserve the title. After the zillion laser assault Sora and Riku are worn out and Xem's is able to advance and nearly clobber them. Although since Sora is able to make that assault it's sensible to say that Xemnas was worn out as well. However to a lesser extent. Plus, according to Nomura's words Xemnas could have used a Keyblade in that battle (MX's incarnation Xemnas contained some of Terra and MX keyblade abilities).



> I couldn't agree more with the overrated part, Caius rates infinitely higher on the badass scale IMO. There is a reason I have a Caius set



Meh man. Caius sounds like that time-travel guy from Yu-gi-oh 3D movie man. 

Honestly, Kefka is the only and last good FF villain created by Square. The only difference is that Caius M.O of achieving his goals.

On another note, since it's clear you're an FF XIII fan I gotta know did you really think the game was all that? Because dude after doing a run through of Digital Devil Saga FFXIII feels like a blatant rip of it. A not well done one at that.

EDIT:

I'll say this though: Caius gets kudos for being one of the FF villains who wins. 

Although Kefka wins in all areas. Badass laugh, badass fights. And overall badass


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## Ulti (Sep 21, 2012)

Both XIII and its sequel were fantastic games imo


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## Bender (Sep 21, 2012)

@The Penetrator. 

sales say differently. Not to mention reviews.


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## Ulti (Sep 21, 2012)

I don't care


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## Adamant soul (Sep 21, 2012)

Bender said:


> Twilight Xemnas was only pain in the ass when you didn't have that many potions and etc on hand. Also the reason Twilight Xemnas is story-wise the strongest in KH during the KHII period is because of how he absorbed KH. To back-up the whole easy boss fight thing he does technically deserve the title. After the zillion laser assault Sora and Riku are worn out and Xem's is able to advance and nearly clobber them. Although since Sora is able to make that assault it's sensible to say that Xemnas was worn out as well. However to a lesser extent. Plus, according to Nomura's words Xemnas could have used a Keyblade in that battle (MX's incarnation Xemnas contained some of Terra and MX keyblade abilities).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Actually Caius reminds me more of Z-ONE the time travelling main villain of Yugioh 5Ds coupled with an epic theme except Caius doesn't give a damn about the world unlike Z-ONE.

Haven't played Digital Devil Saga, so I'll just say that yes I found FFXIII to be a really good game. I enjoyed most of the cast and even some of the side characters. The plot was decent though it was clear it was a character driven story, if you didn't like the characters you weren't going to like the story. I also didn't think the plot was nearly as confusing as people make it out to be, XIII-2's plot maybe but the first game's was fine. Underwhelming villains was the first game's only real plot issue, Barthandelus was decent though .

The gameplay got a lot more fun the further into the game you got, my only major problem being that stupid upgrading system (the equipment one, I didn't mind the Crystarium). The soundtrack was pretty damn boss, I have to say. Despite not having Uematsu, Hamauzu still managed to compose a soundtrack that ranks among the best in the franchise IMO. XIII-2 had better gameplay, though it was less challenging than the first game and the monster system was a stupid idea, relied too much on DLC for my liking and the soundtrack wasn't as good though there were still some pretty good tunes in it. Caius made it all kinds of epic every time he stepped on screen.

Yeah I really like both of the FF XIII titles and can't wait for Lightning Returns to see the conclusion to a great trilogy . Maybe she will fight Caius one last time and the feats from it will change the result of this thread a bit .


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## Bender (Sep 21, 2012)

Adamant soul said:


> Actually Caius reminds me more of Z-ONE the time travelling main villain of Yugioh 5Ds coupled with an epic theme except Caius doesn't give a damn about the world unlike Z-ONE.



Eh, are you sure? I thought Caius was more of a woobie than he was a "fuck-the-world" type of dude.



> Haven't played Digital Devil Saga, so I'll just say that yes I found FFXIII to be a really good game.



You'll have to play Digital Devil Saga to get the gist of what I'm saying.


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## Adamant soul (Sep 21, 2012)

Bender said:


> Eh, are you sure? I thought Caius was more of a woobie than he was a "fuck-the-world" type of dude.
> 
> 
> 
> You'll have to play Digital Devil Saga to get the gist of what I'm saying.



Caius isn't so much a "fuck-the-world" type of guy, he just didn't care what he had to do to end Yuel's endless cycle of death and rebirth nor did he care that the world would basically be screwed over when he succeeded. In doing so though he has now lost his immortality so Lightning will be able to kill him herself in the next game 

Is Digital Devil Saga out for X-box 360 and what is it about plot-wise?


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## DarkSlayerZero (Sep 21, 2012)

Youngnort is far from the strongest Xehonort. 

_? When King Mickey stopped time, Young Xehanort began to move. Since he can control time, was he breaking the King?s spell? 

Nomura: Young Xehanort wasn?t using his own power at that time. The King?s magic was broken because Master Xehanort was assimilating with Young Xehanort. Only ?the mark of heresy? was added by Organization XIII. 

? It was when the figures started appearing in the thrones. 

Nomura: Indeed. Time was stopped just as Master Xehanort was materializing. So he moved his consciousness to Young Xehanort?s body. Reacting to this, King Mickey exclaimed, ?That?s impossible!? Young Xehanort was holding a Keyblade that he originally wasn?t able to handle thanks to Master Xehanort?s power. Though the keychain on it is different, the Keyblade he takes out is Master Xehanort?s. 

? I see. Young Xehanort himself is still in Destiny Islands and isn?t able to wield a Keyblade yet. 

Nomura: Right. Even when he appeared as an additional boss in Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep Final Mix, he wasn?t using a Keyblade._


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## Ulti (Sep 21, 2012)

I thought no one could die now that the chaos in Valhalla has been unleashed?


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## DarkSlayerZero (Sep 21, 2012)

The Penetrator said:


> I thought no one could die now that the chaos in Valhalla has been unleashed?



Everyone's immortal age-wise.


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## Ulti (Sep 21, 2012)

So people can still be killed by others?

Ah right, I get it the concept of time itself was destroyed so time doesn't go on and no one ages.


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## Adamant soul (Sep 21, 2012)

The Penetrator said:


> I thought no one could die now that the chaos in Valhalla has been unleashed?



Well now that the flow of time has come to a complete stop ageing should no longer be possible however death by other means is more than possible. Caius himself no longer has the Heart of Chaos beating in his chest so it stands to reason anybody can kill him now since that was the source of his immortality.


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## Ulti (Sep 21, 2012)

Caius shouldn't have any powers anymore, wasn't that his power source? Well he still has his awesome sword I guess


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## Bender (Sep 21, 2012)

Adamant soul said:


> Caius isn't so much a "fuck-the-world" type of guy, he just didn't care what he had to do to end Yuel's endless cycle of death and rebirth nor did he care that the world would basically be screwed over when he succeeded.



Huh, so FFXIII added FFX's plot to it. 



> In doing so though he has now lost his immortality so Lightning will be able to kill him herself in the next game





> Is Digital Devil Saga out for X-box 360 and what is it about plot-wise?



Digital Devil Saga is out on PS2.

Synopsis from wikipedia



> Digital Devil Saga is set in the Junkyard, a vast, post-apocalyptic wasteland in which it is constantly raining. All residents of the Junkyard adhere to elements of Hinduism, and seem to be reincarnated when they die, aware of their past lives. Six main tribes, the Embryon, Vanguards, Maribel, Solids, Brutes, and Wolves, fight to destroy each other and earn passage into Nirvana.[1]



Gamestop synopsis



> Junkyard, a town of endless rain...
> 
> With his four companions, Serf, the main character and a member of a tribe called Embryon, sets out for Nirvana, a land that can only be reached by the champions of Junkyard. They devote themselves to fighting against the never-ending resistance mustered by other tribes.
> 
> ...



Trust me, it's plenty more interesting than FFXIII.

@Darkslayer Zero

It can be put this way: YMX has power but is unable to properly tap into it.


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## DarkSlayerZero (Sep 21, 2012)

The Penetrator said:


> Caius shouldn't have any powers anymore, wasn't that his power source? Well he still has his awesome sword I guess



All the heart did was make so that he could survive incarnate summoning.


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## Adamant soul (Sep 21, 2012)

The Penetrator said:


> Caius shouldn't have any powers anymore, wasn't that his power source? Well he still has his awesome sword I guess




Pretty sure he already had the powers of chaos before he got the heart of chaos, I believe the only thing the heart of chaos enabled him to do that he couldn't do before is safely transform into Chaos Bahamut, since it was merging with Bahamut that would have killed him in the first place if Etro didn't take pity on him. If anything with the Chaos spilling being that he can use that as a power source and the fact he now has to worry about being mortal he should be more dangerous and powerful.



Bender said:


> Huh, so FFXIII added FFX's plot to it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Definitely sounds interesting, I'll look into getting a copy.


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## Bender (Sep 21, 2012)

@Adamant Soul

By the way tvtropes says that Caius has himself a little "slouch of villainy" moment in FF XIII-2. As I'm a fan of villains lauding over the heroes I'm curious could you provide the clip of that moment?

Was it as badass looking as this?

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHIJ-3Xiet0[/YOUTUBE]

Depending on it, I may consider looking up FF XIII-2. By which I mean youtube it.


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## DarkSlayerZero (Sep 21, 2012)

[YOUTUBE]g0yyWjdGBkE[/YOUTUBE]

Starts at 27:25


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## Adamant soul (Sep 21, 2012)

Bender said:


> @Adamant Soul
> 
> By the way tvtropes says that Caius has himself a little "slouch of villainy" moment in FF XIII-2. As I'm a fan of villains lauding over the heroes I'm curious could you provide the clip of that moment?
> 
> ...



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R83wSWMdo1Q[/YOUTUBE]

It's in this video as well as a few other badass moments such as him making a mockery of both Noel and Serah (while fighting whom he had his "slouch of villainy moment") and not to mention stabbing both through the chest and locking them in dream worlds.


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## Bender (Sep 21, 2012)

I hate the voice acting for the game. 

Other than that it's pretty eh. Not bad. 

I still think MX has him topped considering how he's an outright complete monster and gloated about fucking up so many worlds. 

@Adamant Soul

I'll admit Caius definitely proves his chops as one of the best FF villain. But try and buy KH3D man. The trolling that MX's younger self puts on the heroes Sora and Riku is staggering. The dude even has the name "trollanort" because of the mind rape he inflicts on Sora and pesters Riku.


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## Toriko (Sep 21, 2012)

> sales say differently. Not to mention reviews.



Try formulating your own opinion huh?


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## Adamant soul (Sep 21, 2012)

Bender said:


> I hate the voice acting for the game.
> 
> Other than that it's pretty eh. Not bad.
> 
> ...



Unfortunately I am not in possession of a 3DS so acquiring KH3D would be a little pointless without the system to play it on. Same reason I can't get Roxas' side game. I do have a PSP so I can get Birth By sleep though but right now I want to play through KH1 and 2 again because I haven't played them in so long. I might get to it eventually but I also am thinking of saving up my money for WiiU because of Bayonetta 2 next year so we'll see.


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## Bender (Sep 21, 2012)

@Adamant Soul

Make sure ta ask for a 3DS for Christmas then chief. 

@Brohan 

If reviews weren't a way to go by I don't see what would.


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## Toriko (Sep 21, 2012)

Reviews mean jack more often than not. So does popular opinion.


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## Bender (Sep 21, 2012)

Brohan said:


> Reviews mean jack more often than not. So does popular opinion.



IGN.com's reviews mean jack ya mean. Gameinformers, Gamepro, etc are the only legit sources.


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## Adamant soul (Sep 21, 2012)

Bender said:


> @Adamant Soul
> 
> Make sure ta ask for a 3DS for Christmas then chief.
> 
> ...



Well I do like Pokemon games and there is also that Kid Icarus Uprising which is supposed to be good based on what I hear as well as two KH games (Days and KH3D) so yeah maybe. Or I might just wait for my cousin to get it since she has a 3DS and then Marathon KH1, KH2, Birth By Sleep, Days and 3D. Unfortunately RE: Chain of memories was never released in the UK (God Damn you Square ) though there is the HD collection being made with it and KH1 so that solves that problem.

I don't tend to trust reviews all that much. People hyped FFVII to no end and when I played it I was MASSIVELY disappointing. Game didn't live up to its hype in the slightest yet FFXIII with it's bad reputation was actually a really good game. Heck one of the best RPG's I've ever played didn't sell well in Lost Odyssey. Shadow Hearts (the first game anyway) isn't exactly that well known though it is another of my favorite RPG's and it's sequel Covenant kicked ass.

I wouldn't put all your faith in reviews and sales. They can often be misleading in my experience.


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## Bender (Sep 21, 2012)

@Adamant Soul

The only time I've found a gaming review to be a piece of crap is when I picked a game that wasn't in my style. Most notably Dead Space. After being unable play RE (which I liked for the horror but became too much COD + horror) I dropped it and tried Dead Space. Not what was my cup of tea.


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## KiteSora (Sep 22, 2012)

Which "Young Xehanort" are we using? Cause YX when he fought Riku wasn't just his normal self and he was sort of being "possessed" by his modern self. The difference is possessed YX gets a power boost going from somewhere above TAV to being able to fight 3D Riku and Sora (I think the whole equal thing is still going) and he gets a Keyblade.

I haven't played XIII-2, so can someone tell me how Caius' time abilites exactly work. I already know he has legitimate timefuck unlike YX who's limited to only being able to go forward in time and only if a future version of himself is existing at the time he's going to. Sure, there's his "restart the battle" thing but that's likely just time magic or something since it's not part of his time traveling powers and it only works if someone doesn't break the clock he makes when he does it.


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## Adamant soul (Sep 22, 2012)

KiteSora said:


> Which "Young Xehanort" are we using? Cause YX when he fought Riku wasn't just his normal self and he was sort of being "possessed" by his modern self. The difference is possessed YX gets a power boost going from somewhere above TAV to being able to fight 3D Riku and Sora (I think the whole equal thing is still going) and he gets a Keyblade.
> 
> I haven't played XIII-2, so can someone tell me how Caius' time abilites exactly work. I already know he has legitimate timefuck unlike YX who's limited to only being able to go forward in time and only if a future version of himself is existing at the time he's going to. Sure, there's his "restart the battle" thing but that's likely just time magic or something since it's not part of his time traveling powers and it only works if someone doesn't break the clock he makes when he does it.



Caius on top of being able to freely travel up and down the timeline and create time paradoxes is also capable of outright time-stopping in the middle of a fight, even as a manner of reacting to an attack. He does this against Serah in that posted further up this page when she shoots an arrow at his head. He seems to have a limited range for his time-stop, though it is big, he can time-stop an entire city block at least.

YX should still win here though, they are both well into town level DC and durability, have similar h4x and an equally wide array of spells. What clinches it for YX is the his speed advantage, Caius is only Mach 7 while YX is Mach 15. So yeah YX should win this.


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## The810kid (Sep 22, 2012)

Bender said:


> Twilight Xemnas was only pain in the ass when you didn't have that many potions and etc on hand. Also the reason Twilight Xemnas is story-wise the strongest in KH during the KHII period is because of how he absorbed KH. To back-up the whole easy boss fight thing he does technically deserve the title. After the zillion laser assault Sora and Riku are worn out and Xem's is able to advance and nearly clobber them. Although since Sora is able to make that assault it's sensible to say that Xemnas was worn out as well. However to a lesser extent. Plus, according to Nomura's words Xemnas could have used a Keyblade in that battle (MX's incarnation Xemnas contained some of Terra and MX keyblade abilities).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sephiroth aside I guess Kuja doesn't exist huh.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Sep 22, 2012)

Bender said:


> Master Xehanort is able to lay waste to a world with a simple stroke of the arm



Is this a statement or a feat? And by "world" do you mean something planet sized as in he can wreck continents in one go?


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## Toriko (Sep 22, 2012)

Lol@Golbez being a bad villain or Exdeath, or the Emperor ect.


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## Roman55 (Sep 22, 2012)

Zaelapolopollo said:


> Is this a statement or a feat? And by "world" do you mean something planet sized as in he can wreck continents in one go?


I think Bender is just jizzing to Kingdom Hearts like he usually does.


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## Ulti (Sep 22, 2012)

Even if it wasn't the main villain all Final Fantasy games had a good villain somewhere down the line  IIRC


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## Zaelapolopollo (Sep 22, 2012)

Rubicante was the best villain in FFIV.
FFVII had Hojo.
FFXII had...everyone. Loved every bad guy in that game.


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## Ulti (Sep 22, 2012)

Vayne is very underrated IMO


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## Bender (Sep 22, 2012)

Zaelapolopollo said:


> Is this a statement or a feat? And by "world" do you mean something planet sized as in he can wreck continents in one go?



"world"

He destroyed "The Land of Departure" which Terra, Aqua, and Ven trained in at the beginning of the game. And he did so with absolutely no effort.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y39_qZLKdkE[/YOUTUBE]

Also the sphere of darkness which swallows up Land of Departure  is the same type which laid to waste Destiny Islands (which comprised of two islands).


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## KiteSora (Sep 23, 2012)

Bender said:


> "world"
> 
> He destroyed "The Land of Departure" which Terra, Aqua, and Ven trained in at the beginning of the game. And he did so with absolutely no effort.
> 
> ...



Bender, you do know Aqua went there later and then Sora, Donald, and Goofy 10 years later and then Roxas and Axel after them and such. I'm pretty sure it's still there.


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## Fenrir (Sep 23, 2012)

Brohan said:


> Lol@Golbez being a bad villain or *Exdeath*, or the Emperor ect.


He is a bad villain. He monotone monologues like it's going outta fashion =/


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## Fenrir (Sep 23, 2012)

Well, "worlds" in KH have to be pretty big if they appear like stars to other worlds. On top of that, KH3D pretty much made clear that what you traverse in-game isn't the entire world, since there are worlds such as La Cite Des Cloches and Country of the Musketeers which are at least country sized (LCDC is essentially France). Then there's Deep Space, which pretty much shows a planet/world from it's atmosphere.


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## Toriko (Sep 23, 2012)

Yeah, what you actually play in game is not the entire world. Each of those places are probably the size of earth. If not, they are incredibly dense, and KH characters are much stronger than we give them credit for.


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## Fenrir (Sep 23, 2012)

Did....I do something wrong...?


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## Ulti (Sep 23, 2012)

>makes a serious debate several pages back
>gets called a troll



@NS nah man, I just disagree about ExDeath being a bad villain, sounds like you're basing it of Dissidia.


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## Fenrir (Sep 23, 2012)

The Penetrator said:


> @NS nah man, I just disagree about ExDeath being a bad villain, sounds like you're basing it of Dissidia.


FFV is one of my favourite FF games. My memory probably sucks, or Exdeath was just that 'meh' to me. Either way, TRANSCEND TEH STARZ > Exdeath LOL.


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## Roman55 (Sep 23, 2012)

Bender said:


> No it's just "The Penetrator like Roman55 trolling my thread.


Fuck's sake. Getting really tired of the word 'troll' being thrown around the internet in every which way where it's not applied. 

Arguments have been applied and reasons have been given but all Bender does is use TVtropes in his "arguments" and when someone of actual intelligence debates him he just uses the block system (which in my opinion makes you a major pussy) just so he could continue to jerk off to whatever he supports in the current moment.

Really, it's okay to be negative sometimes, people. It really is.


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## Fenrir (Sep 23, 2012)

Roman55 said:


> Fuck's sake. Getting really tired of the word 'troll' being thrown around the internet in every which way where it's not applied.
> 
> Arguments have been applied and reasons have been given but all Bender does is use TVtropes in his "arguments" and when someone of actual intelligence debates him he just uses the block system (which in my opinion makes you a major pussy) just so he could continue to jerk off to whatever he supports in the current moment.
> 
> Really, it's okay to be negative sometimes, people. It really is.


Really? Bender sucks?

Well, it didn't look like it while I was lurking around here >_>


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## Ulti (Sep 23, 2012)

I will admit I like Golbez more than ExDeath


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## Fenrir (Sep 23, 2012)

The Penetrator said:


> I will admit I like Golbez more than ExDeath


I blame the semi-British accent. They always work on villains, like Luxord. Or probably because I'm British. Like that matters, the only villain I like more than him is Kefka the killer clown.


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## Ulti (Sep 23, 2012)

Kuja is my personal favourite


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## Fenrir (Sep 23, 2012)

Well I haven't been here long, so can't take sides right now.

@Penetrator - He's my 3rd. Cross-gender life wiper nuking cities and pwning parties into to fight the personification of death cuz he wants them to go down with him. God damn that was a mouthful.


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## Ulti (Sep 23, 2012)

> make spite threads





Bender said:


> Wrong
> 
> That fight was with Master Xehanort. Plus, MX's most broken feats are with his young self.
> 
> Young Xehanort stomps. Especially considering he can resist time stop and inflict on other people.



How hypocritical, you made this thread with this in mind.


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## Bender (Sep 23, 2012)

Nightmare Slayer said:


> Well I haven't been here long, so can't take sides right now.



Don't worry. I'm not asking you take sides, merely be more open-minded. It's difficult to be reputed of having that state of mind when you're friends with some people in the OBD.


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## Ulti (Sep 23, 2012)

Actually holy shit that entire post is hypocritical


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## Ulti (Sep 23, 2012)

The Penetrator said:


> Wasn't this done before with Caius kicking his ass?
> 
> With recent calcs Caius kicks ass even harder imo



Tell me Bender, where did I accuse you of that in this post? Oh right, I didn't, you flat out said YX stomps Caius so yeah and you made this thread with that in mind, you couldn't be more wrong.

This is hilarious.


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## Fenrir (Sep 23, 2012)

What are Caius' stats? I swear YMX is massively hypersonic?


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## Ulti (Sep 23, 2012)

Pretty sure Brohan has him clocked at Mach 14, Caius at Mach 7, but everyone has admitted YX is faster


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## Ulti (Sep 23, 2012)

In all honesty, I don't care about making 'spite threads', also I was referencing the fact you said that I accused you of a bad thread, which I never did.

Stop trying to save face, it's cringeworthy.


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## Fenrir (Sep 23, 2012)

The Penetrator said:


> Pretty sure Brohan has him clocked at Mach 14, Caius at Mach 7, but everyone has admitted YX is faster


But didn't Vanitas dodge lightning?


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## Adamant soul (Sep 23, 2012)

Nightmare Slayer said:


> What are Caius' stats? I swear YMX is massively hypersonic?



YMX is Mach 15 or Hypersonic+, no KH character is Massively Hypersonic 

*Spoiler*: __ 



Yet 


. 
Caius is Mach 7 though the two are comparable in every other stat hence that speed advantage is the main reason why Caius loses here.


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## Kurou (Sep 23, 2012)

This message is hidden because Bender is on your ignore list. 


feels good man.



Also, figures Kuja would be your favorite Ulti  Also, is FF13-2 worth playing? And be truthful.


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## Adamant soul (Sep 23, 2012)

Nightmare Slayer said:


> But didn't Vanitas dodge lightning?



Legit/natural lightning or unquantifiable magic lightning.


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## Bender (Sep 23, 2012)

The Penetrator said:


> *In all honesty, I don't care about making 'spite threads',*



Thanks for proving my point.


On another note this thread should be closed. The result has been made clear. Any calculations on KH characters should be done in the Meta Battledome.

@Adamant Soul

I think Sora was calculated to be massively hypersonic.


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## Ulti (Sep 23, 2012)

Nightmare Slayer said:


> But didn't Vanitas dodge lightning?



Wasn't that debunked? I don't keep up with KH these days.


Kurou said:


> This message is hidden because Bender is on your ignore list.
> 
> 
> feels good man.
> ...



Aw shit, I just remembered that convo, XIII-2 is worth getting, though you can always YouTube it


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## Adamant soul (Sep 23, 2012)

Bender said:


> Thanks for proving my point.
> 
> 
> On another note this thread should be closed. The result has been made clear. Any calculations on KH characters should be done in the Meta Battledome.
> ...



I'm not aware of any such calc, thought they peaked at Mach 15. Link please?


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## Kurou (Sep 23, 2012)

Meh, I'll probably just rent it then. Return and get my money back


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## Bender (Sep 23, 2012)

Adamant soul said:


> I'm not aware of any such calc, thought they peaked at Mach 15. Link please?





On another note I asked for the thread to be closed.


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## Roman55 (Sep 23, 2012)

Bender said:


> Roman55 has no idea what the fuck he's talking about. For one him and his little friends always make spite threads, and does so just because his favorite lil char are outclassed in some way or arise of new evidence that a char is more powerful than they expected  Also like most OBD elitist he mad because not everyone *beats off to Star Wars* like the majority of OBD's inner circle does.
> 
> Seriously, I'm surprised you're not off in ban land along with Dandy Elegance, Roman. I put you on my ignore list and you still insist on making a nuisance of yourself.


BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Anybody who takes this seriously after reading that bit should kill themselves. Bender's ass is still hurt over a few things it seems.


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## Kurou (Sep 23, 2012)

Damn it don't quote the bastard. I try and avoid his posts for a reason.


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## Es (Sep 23, 2012)




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## Bender (Sep 23, 2012)

> This message is hidden because Es is on your ignore list.





> This message is hidden because Roman55 is on your ignore list.



Where's mod man? I want this thread closed already.


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## Es (Sep 23, 2012)

Kurou said:


> Damn it don't quote the bastard. I try and avoid his posts for a reason.


He made the thread though :hestonlaugh


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## Fenrir (Sep 23, 2012)

Adamant soul said:


> Legit/natural lightning or unquantifiable magic lightning.


That's what I'm saying. Usually I'm picky with lightning timing since it could be akin to Naruto lightning like Chidori, so it has to be cloud-to-ground for me to take notice to it. But I remember in both KH1 and the KH2 opening that Donald used Thunder and a thundercloud came out of nowhere. It wasn't really clear in the first game since it was just the sky going dark. But in the KH2 opening you actually see the thundercloud that time around, so I think lightning generated by magic in KH can produce the same results. Sure looks that way, since Ansem did the same thing and generated a lightning storm during Destiny Islands' destruction.


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## Kurou (Sep 23, 2012)

Es said:


> He made the thread though :hestonlaugh



Didn't notice. Didn't care. I only came in here to ask a question from that crumpet


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## Bender (Sep 23, 2012)

@Kurou

Whether you like it or not you're contributing to my thread by posting in it chum. That's so very nice of you.


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## Ulti (Sep 23, 2012)

I like how the guy who calced the massively hypersonic calc said it should be taken with a grain of salt


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## Roman55 (Sep 23, 2012)

Bender said:


> Where's mod man? I want this thread closed already.


Oh shit Bender made a good joke for once.

Mods in the OBD. What an idea huh?



> I like how the guy who calced the massively hypersonic calc said it should be taken with a grain of salt


No matter how much it should be taken Bender will still jizz all over it.


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## Ulti (Sep 23, 2012)

Hey Kurou, I had crumpets with honey for breakfast this morning


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## Kurou (Sep 23, 2012)

A hearty breakfast fit for a king


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## Bender (Sep 23, 2012)

@ The Penetrator

I've said it once I don't want to say it a fucking again: Take calculations for characters into the metabattledome


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## Ulti (Sep 23, 2012)

Kurou said:


> A hearty breakfast fit for a king



Did you ever see that pub lunch I had? I posted a photo of it, now that was a meal for a king


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## Kurou (Sep 23, 2012)

No I haven't


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## Roman55 (Sep 23, 2012)

Fuck now I'm interested


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## Banhammer (Sep 23, 2012)

I feel a disturbance in the Force

Like the pain of a thousand buthurts yammering on and on about stupid bullshit


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## Fenrir (Sep 23, 2012)

So funny how off-topic this thread has gone.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Sep 23, 2012)

Jesus, there's only one mod for this shithole?

I guess it is a pretty thankless job.


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## Roman55 (Sep 23, 2012)

Nightmare Slayer said:


> So funny how off-topic this thread has gone.


Don't know about you, but I'd rather hear a story about food than read pages full of Bender going gaga over KH.


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## Fenrir (Sep 23, 2012)

Roman55 said:


> Don't know about you, but I'd rather hear The Penetrator's food story than read pages full of Bender going gaga over KH.


Food? WHERE >:l


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## Ulti (Sep 23, 2012)

Kurou said:


> No I haven't





Roman55 said:


> Fuck now I'm interested



>quality paradise
>food and drink thread


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## Banhammer (Sep 23, 2012)

Bender said:


> That's what happens when The Penetrator and his pals enter one of my threads. They like tainting it with fail.



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY_amJ0YZrM[/YOUTUBE]


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## Bender (Sep 23, 2012)

Roman55 post Translation: Waaaah, why did Caius lose. 



Nightmare Slayer said:


> Food? WHERE >:l



Oi, NS try not to quote major senor troll(Roman55) will ya? Thanks bro ham, 'ppreciates it. I've gone through quite a bit to avoid seeing his post.


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## Roman55 (Sep 23, 2012)

I like how he thinks I care.


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## Banhammer (Sep 23, 2012)

Bender said:


> Roman55 post Translation: Waaaah, why did Caius lose.
> 
> 
> 
> Oi, NS try not to quote major senor troll(Roman55) will ya? Thanks bro ham, 'ppreciates it. I've gone through quite a bit to avoid seeing his post.


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## Ulti (Sep 23, 2012)

Pretty sure Roman doesn't give a shit about Caius lmfao


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## Fenrir (Sep 23, 2012)

You're...not making it easy for me to post on here ._.


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## Basilikos (Sep 23, 2012)




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## Kurou (Sep 23, 2012)

The Penetrator said:


> >quality paradise
> >food and drink thread



Delicious. Other than that tomato


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## Banhammer (Sep 23, 2012)

voted for caius just so I could see what was going on with the poll
Conclusion? No one gave a shit about the poll


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## Roman55 (Sep 23, 2012)

The Penetrator said:


> Pretty sure Roman doesn't give a shit about Caius lmfao


Pretty much.


Nightmare Slayer said:


> You're...not making it easy for me to post on here ._.


Just talk about food then. Everyone likes that.


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## Basilikos (Sep 23, 2012)




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## Ulti (Sep 23, 2012)

Kurou said:


> Delicious. Other than that tomato



Yeah, I don't like Tomatoes either, gave that to mydog bff4lyf


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## Fenrir (Sep 23, 2012)

Basilikos said:


>


I fap to cookie porn LOL.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 23, 2012)

Nightmare Slayer said:


> I fap to cookie porn LOL.


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## Bender (Sep 23, 2012)

Nightmare Slayer said:


> You're...not making it easy for me to post on here ._.



Trust me, the majority find it difficult as well. 

This is perhaps the worst section on the forum.


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## Banhammer (Sep 23, 2012)




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## Fenrir (Sep 23, 2012)

Don't judge me


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## Roman55 (Sep 23, 2012)

Bender said:


> This is perhaps the worst section on the forum.


Ironic considering that the person saying that posts a majority of the time here.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 23, 2012)

Roman55 said:


> Ironic considering that the person saying that posts a majority of the time here.


----------



## Es (Sep 23, 2012)

Bender said:


> Trust me, the majority find it difficult as well.
> 
> This is perhaps the worst section on the forum.


----------



## Banhammer (Sep 23, 2012)

Hey, anyone remember the "Black Titan" fiasco?


----------



## ThanatoSeraph (Sep 23, 2012)

Bender said:


> Trust me, the majority find it difficult as well.
> 
> This is perhaps the worst section on the forum.



If it's so shitty then leave.

That way everyone wins.


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## Banhammer (Sep 23, 2012)

One of the more hilarious travestis on OBD re-branding history


Let's just say history repeats itself. A lot.


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## Huntring (Sep 23, 2012)

Gender bender.


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## Basilikos (Sep 23, 2012)

So, you going to respond to my post from the complaint thread or what, Bender?

You can do so here.


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## Kurou (Sep 23, 2012)

Please don't summon him to these hallowed halls. Thank you.


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## Basilikos (Sep 23, 2012)

Fine.


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## Fenrir (Sep 23, 2012)

Kurou said:


> Please don't summon him to these hallowed halls. Thank you.


These halls stopped being hallowed the moment he commented in these parts for the first time.

*sorry Bender, I couldn't resist. You walked right into that one ._.*


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## Vandal Savage (Sep 23, 2012)

Closed by OP's request.


----------

