# King Arthur w/Excalibur (Nanatsu No Taizai) vs Mihawk



## xenos5 (Feb 23, 2018)

Both are island level+ swordsmen (since Excalibur Arthur can fight Assault Mode Meliodas and Zeldris at the same time). But can Mihawk contend against the skill and techniques Arthur gains from all the fallen heroes before him?

Scenario 1: no restrictions

Scenario 2: Speed Equalized

Setting: Fighting stage on Vaizel Rock


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## Dries Mertens (Feb 23, 2018)

Pretty close but I'd give Arthur both scenarios

Reactions: Like 1


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## xenos5 (Feb 23, 2018)

Dries Mertens said:


> Pretty close but I'd give Arthur both scenarios



Any more details you can give? Like your reasoning for coming to that conclusion?


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## Mythoclast (Feb 23, 2018)

Dance of Avidya pushes this in Arthur's favor.

Reactions: Like 1


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## EternalRage (Feb 23, 2018)

Assault Mode Mel and Zeldris both got up uninjured and so did Cusack and Chandler, Arthur doesn’t scale to anybody there

Reactions: Funny 1 | Disagree 1


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## xenos5 (Feb 23, 2018)

EternalRage said:


> Assault Mode Mel and Zeldris both got up uninjured and so did Cusack and Chandler, Arthur doesn’t scale to anybody there



Uninjured? Lolnope.

They’ve got demon regeneration, remember?

On top of that Cusack and Chandler were both clearly chopped up.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Keishin (Feb 23, 2018)

EternalRage said:


> Assault Mode Mel and Zeldris both got up uninjured and so did Cusack and Chandler, Arthur doesn’t scale to anybody there


Suuure they did... even galan got up from escanor slicing him in half.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## EternalRage (Feb 23, 2018)

Keishin said:


> Suuure they did... even galan got up from escanor slicing him in half.





xenos5 said:


> Uninjured? Lolnope.
> 
> They’ve got demon regeneration, remember?
> 
> On top of that Cusack and Chandler were both clearly chopped up.


Go see the spoilers from the latest chapter


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## xenos5 (Feb 23, 2018)

EternalRage said:


> Go see the spoilers from the latest chapter



The spoilers mention nothing about them being “uninjured”. You’re just extrapolating and making ridiculous assumptions.


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## EternalRage (Feb 23, 2018)

xenos5 said:


> The spoilers mention nothing about them being “uninjured”. You’re just extrapolating and making ridiculous assumptions.


“All 4 demons are fine.”

“Cusack does something to make Arthur stab himself.” 

They were taken by surprise.


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## xenos5 (Feb 23, 2018)

EternalRage said:


> “All 4 demons are fine.”
> 
> “Cusack does something to make Arthur stab himself.”
> 
> They were taken by surprise.



Galan was “just fine” when he used his regeneration and got back up good as new wasn’t he?

Wait for the actual chapter, dude.


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## shunsui1 (Feb 23, 2018)

Mihawk doesn't have regeneration to my knowledge so if he gets hit he won't be just fine


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## Gunstarvillain (Feb 23, 2018)

Bruh if artie isn't even in his final form...



Hawk gonna end up matching shanks


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## Mythoclast (Feb 23, 2018)

EternalRage said:


> “All 4 demons are fine.”
> 
> “Cusack does something to make Arthur stab himself.”
> 
> They were taken by surprise.



They have amazing regenerative abilities.Of course they'll be fine.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## The World (Feb 23, 2018)

Arthur cuts him to pieces until we get more feats


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## xenos5 (Feb 23, 2018)

Wow, I thought there'd be at least some Mihawk supporters XD. 

Guess Arthur's technique/skill accumulation is too OP.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mr. Black Leg (Feb 23, 2018)

Isn't Arthur on a lower level Island level ?


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## Dr. White (Feb 23, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Isn't Arthur on a lower level Island level ?


48 Gt so less than 1/2 power difference, skill/speed is the killer here.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Feb 23, 2018)

I see, although the speed itself is also marginal .


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## The World (Feb 24, 2018)

He still blitzed the literal top 4 strongest in NNT barring Escanor and Demon King/Goddess


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## Mr. Black Leg (Feb 24, 2018)

The World said:


> He still blitzed the literal top 4 strongest in NNT barring Escanor and Demon King/Goddess



Blitzing one another does not grant you more speed in OBD setting. Luffy speedblitzed Dofla who was the one with the mach 1948 speed from like 40 meters up in the air. Does not make him faster in OBD.


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## Dr. White (Feb 24, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> I see, although the speed itself is also marginal .


Yes but arthur is much more agile/mobile. Straight line speedblitzing isn't the problem here as arthur can outmanuever several people that are all faster than mihawk.


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## EternalRage (Feb 24, 2018)

lol ok so let’s say arthur gets the scaling

now what is he going to do to mihawk with small continent level damage soak 

entertain me


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## xenos5 (Feb 24, 2018)

EternalRage said:


> lol ok so let’s say arthur gets the scaling
> 
> now what is he going to do to mihawk with small continent level damage soak
> 
> entertain me



Does Mihawk actually get that? That may be an outdated part of Mihawk's profile left over from a time he was thought to be at a higher level.

Nowadays people in the OP Battledome don't think he could take all 3 of Big Mom's sweet commanders (Katakuri, Cracker, and Smoothie) on at once. So it seems the general perception of his level has gone down.


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## EternalRage (Feb 24, 2018)

xenos5 said:


> Does Mihawk actually get that? That may be an outdated part of Mihawk's profile left over from a time he was thought to be at a higher level.
> 
> Nowadays people in the OP Battledome don't think he could take all 3 of Big Mom's sweet commanders (Katakuri, Cracker, and Smoothie) on at once. So it seems the general perception of his level has gone down.


I don’t really know all that about OP but I know the sweet commanders are all on the same level as G4 Luffy, plus they have their own techniques and abilities, so that’s probably why mihawk would lose.


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## Adamant soul (Feb 24, 2018)

xenos5 said:


> Does Mihawk actually get that? That may be an outdated part of Mihawk's profile left over from a time he was thought to be at a higher level.
> 
> Nowadays people in the OP Battledome don't think he could take all 3 of Big Mom's sweet commanders (Katakuri, Cracker, and Smoothie) on at once. So it seems the general perception of his level has gone down.



How the hell do they figure that? Mihawk is a rival to Shanks,one of the four emperors, and is the strongest swordsman in the world. People are kidding themselves if they think he's anything less than top tier, much less getting beat by a Yonko's commanders.


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## SwordSlayer99 (Feb 24, 2018)

xenos5 said:


> Does Mihawk actually get that? That may be an outdated part of Mihawk's profile left over from a time he was thought to be at a higher level.
> 
> Nowadays people in the OP Battledome don't think he could take all 3 of Big Mom's sweet commanders (Katakuri, Cracker, and Smoothie) on at once. So it seems the general perception of his level has gone down.


I would have to say that Mihawk does get that. Mihawk should be > Shanks, but even if you don't agree, they have fought in the past when Shanks had both of his arms so Mihawk scales to him. Shanks also intercepted Kaido, who was on his way to fight Whitebeard, and Shanks showed up at Marineford unscathed. 

So Mihawk is >= Shanks, who can fight against Kaido, who had enough confidence in himself to try and fight Whitebeard, and Shanks wasn't shown to be damaged when he later arrived at Marineford. Mihawk definitely has small continent damage soak, and is quite more powerful than Arthur. 

Just looking at feats, Alabasta is the size of the USA, and it is called an "island" in verse. Prime Chinajo split an Ice Continent in half with a single headbutt... Mihawk > Shanks > Prime Chinajo. Mihawk has significantly more firepower than Arthur.


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## xenos5 (Feb 24, 2018)

Adamant soul said:


> How the hell do they figure that? Mihawk is a rival to Shanks,one of the four emperors, and is the strongest swordsman in the world. People are kidding themselves if they think he's anything less than top tier, much less getting beat by a Yonko's commanders.



iirc Mihawk had some mediocre showings during the Marineford War (clashed equally against Vista who did not look to be Admiral level at all considering Akainu could fend off Vista and Marco at the same time) and he's been kinda dehyped ever since. I kinda get it since I can't really see Shanks struggling with someone of that calibre so it's harder to believe they're equals after that. 

These threads 





might be a good place to start if you want to delve more into it.


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## xenos5 (Feb 24, 2018)

SwordSlayer99 said:


> Just looking at feats, Alabasta is the size of the USA, and it is called an "island" in verse. Prime Chinajo split an Ice Continent in half with a single headbutt... Mihawk > Shanks > Prime Chinajo. Mihawk has significantly more firepower than Arthur.



Prime Chinjao's headbutt was calced at island level+ . It's not actually continent level.


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## Adamant soul (Feb 24, 2018)

xenos5 said:


> iirc Mihawk had some mediocre showings during the Marineford War (clashed equally against Vista who did not look to be Admiral level at all considering Akainu could fend off Vista and Marco at the same time) and he's been kinda dehyped ever since. I kinda get it since I can't really see Shanks struggling with someone of that calibre so it's harder to believe they're equals after that.
> 
> These threads
> 
> ...



Vista only stopped one slash from Mihawk while the latter was making a mental speech about Luffy's ability to turn everyone around him into allies. He wasn't even fully focused on Vista and you seriously think they clashed evenly. 

We have yet to see Mihawk fight seriously at all, there isn't any real reason to doubt he's comparable to Shanks. Mihawk was the one who called off their rivalry when Shanks lost an arm, he wouldn't do that if Shanks was massively stronger to start with.


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## xenos5 (Feb 24, 2018)

Adamant soul said:


> Vista only stopped one slash from Mihawk while the latter was making a mental speech about Luffy's ability to turn everyone around him into allies. He wasn't even fully focused on Vista and you seriously think they clashed evenly.
> 
> We have yet to see Mihawk fight seriously at all, there isn't any real reason to doubt he's comparable to Shanks. Mihawk was the one who called off their rivalry when Shanks lost an arm, he wouldn't do that if Shanks was massively stronger to start with.



Yeah matched may have been an exaggeration.

People do think he is clearly stronger than a first mate 1v1. They just also think taking on multiple G4 level characters on at once isn't something Mihawk may be able to handle (and something that may even give an admiral issues).

I'm not going to claim I know enough to say if that's accurate. Just my observation of what looks like the current consensus in the OP battledome and OL.


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## Mr. Good vibes (Feb 24, 2018)

xenos5 said:


> Yeah matched may have been an exaggeration.
> 
> People do think he is clearly stronger than a first mate 1v1. They just also think taking on multiple G4 level characters on at once isn't something Mihawk may be able to handle (and something that may even give an admiral issues).
> 
> I'm not going to claim I know enough to say if that's accurate. Just my observation of what looks like the current consensus in the OP battledome and OL.


As if the OL is a shining beacon of intelligent opinions.  The same Vista along side Marco would go on to fail to injure an already battle worn Akainu so what Akainu can treat Mihawk like a chump because he didn't immediately destroy Vista for the short period of time they clashed? You still have a few folks there that believe that admirals are = to first mates and as for that thread the only one there that is remotely a threat is Katakuri while the Likes of Cracker has no answers to Mihawk once he starts to seriously swing his sword and Smoothie is still nigh featless with little chance of her really do anything remotely impressive.


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## Dr. White (Feb 24, 2018)

EternalRage said:


> lol ok so let’s say arthur gets the scaling
> 
> now what is he going to do to mihawk with small continent level damage soak
> 
> entertain me


You realize that damage soak is not durability correct? Mihawk can still get his head sliced off or heart pierced. He can just soak obscene amounts of damage that isn't immediately lethal, but this is a swordsfight.


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## Dr. White (Feb 24, 2018)

SwordSlayer99 said:


> I would have to say that Mihawk does get that. Mihawk should be > Shanks, but even if you don't agree, they have fought in the past when Shanks had both of his arms so Mihawk scales to him. Shanks also intercepted Kaido, who was on his way to fight Whitebeard, and Shanks showed up at Marineford unscathed.
> 
> So Mihawk is >= Shanks, who can fight against Kaido, who had enough confidence in himself to try and fight Whitebeard, and Shanks wasn't shown to be damaged when he later arrived at Marineford. Mihawk definitely has small continent damage soak, and is quite more powerful than Arthur.
> 
> Just looking at feats, Alabasta is the size of the USA, and it is called an "island" in verse. Prime Chinajo split an Ice Continent in half with a single headbutt... Mihawk > Shanks > Prime Chinajo. Mihawk has significantly more firepower than Arthur.


Mihawk is not over shanks lmao. Shanks is a yonko. Shanks is rogers protege. Shanks ended a war with him/8 other dudes and halted a bloodlusted akainu who was aiming to kill WB and like 17 other high tiers minutes earlier. Shanks clashed with WB on equal terms after stepping to his turf for a talk. Shanks got kaido to agree to his terms, despite it being a loss for kaido. Mihawk turned tail from Mf as soon as shanks showed up.
Plz stop


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## shade0180 (Feb 24, 2018)

Yep, Mihawk doesn't have the same authority as Shanks.


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## Adamant soul (Feb 24, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> Mihawk is not over shanks lmao. Shanks is a yonko. Shanks is rogers protege. Shanks ended a war with him/8 other dudes and halted a bloodlusted akainu who was aiming to kill WB and like 17 other high tiers minutes earlier. Shanks clashed with WB on equal terms after stepping to his turf for a talk. Shanks got kaido to agree to his terms, despite it being a loss for kaido. Mihawk turned tail from Mf as soon as shanks showed up.
> Plz stop



Mihawk left because he no longer sees Shanks as a rival, not since he lost his arm and also because Whitebeard was dead. The whole reason he was there in the first place was to test the gap between himself and Whitebeard. Why the fuck would he stay to fight someone he lost interest in fighting years ago? 

If Shanks were still stronger (if he ever was to start with) than Mihawk with one arm, why the fuck would Mihawk respond to him losing his arm by ending their rivalry? Surely it wouldn't matter by your logic so why does he care if Shanks lost an arm? 

It is delusional to claim Mihawk is anything less than Shanks' equal.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Dr. White (Feb 24, 2018)

Adamant soul said:


> Mihawk left because he no longer sees Shanks as a rival, not since he lost his arm and also because Whitebeard was dead. The whole reason he was there in the first place was to test the gap between himself and Whitebeard. Why the fuck would he stay to fight someone he lost interest in fighting years ago?
> 
> If Shanks were still stronger (if he ever was to start with) than Mihawk with one arm, why the fuck would Mihawk respond to him losing his arm by ending their rivalry? Surely it wouldn't matter by your logic so why does he care if Shanks lost an arm?
> 
> It is delusional to claim Mihawk is anything less than Shanks' equal.


> that's bullshit. He was legit in full swing with the effort before Shanks showed up. Regardless if it was because of mihawk being upset his seord buddy lost an arm or some other motive, he still dipped out as soon as shanks arrived. This is a classic mihawk coppit though as mihawk had no qualms "testing a sick old WB" but can't even be on the same island as Shanks? Ok buddy.

Also bullshit you claim the only reason mihawk was there was for WB. Why did he try and kill luffy then? Why'd he step in vs croc and vista?

It could be a swordsmanship thing, or or could be Mihawk being full of himself. How the fuck would Mihawk even know if he never fought armless shanks and uses it as an excuse to turn tail whenever he is around?

Shanks losing an arm in his young adulthood does not make mihawk stronger when shanks pedigree and portrayal is better, and mihawk is the one that refuses to fight. Logic doesn't work that way bud.

It's really not. Shanks >= to mihawk. You are legit relying on them being equal as youngers and than shanks losing an arm to try and play that bullshit card, when losing an arm has done jackshit to impede him clashing with the likes of akainu, kaido, and WB and becoming a yonko himself. Learn how empiricism works. Who has mihawk clashed with? Got his test slash sent packing by jozu, and had a bout with crocodile and vista? Yeah no.


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## The World (Feb 24, 2018)

Adamant soul said:


> How the hell do they figure that? Mihawk is a rival to Shanks,one of the four emperors, and is the strongest swordsman in the world. People are kidding themselves if they think he's anything less than top tier, much less getting beat by a Yonko's commanders.


Katakuri is BM's second, equivalent to Raeleigh. Why you downplaying him?

If anything Luffy shouldn't be anywhere near his equal but I guess Oda is trying to push the manga faster.


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## Adamant soul (Feb 24, 2018)

The World said:


> Katakuri is BM's second, equivalent to Raeleigh. Why you downplaying him?
> 
> If anything Luffy shouldn't be anywhere near his equal but I guess Oda is trying to push the manga faster.



That's fine but Mihawk was a rival to an actual Yonko (Shanks) rather than a commander, said Yonko traded blows with Whitebeard and casually stopped Akainu in his tracks. Not saying Mihawk would stomp casually but he should be above them at the very least.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Feb 24, 2018)

xenos5 said:


> Nowadays people in the OP Battledome don't think he could take all 3 of Big Mom's sweet commanders (Katakuri, Cracker, and Smoothie) on at once. So it seems the general perception of his level has gone down.



Yeah, pretty much.


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## Mythoclast (Feb 24, 2018)

EternalRage said:


> lol ok so let’s say arthur gets the scaling
> 
> now what is he going to do to mihawk with small continent level damage soak
> 
> entertain me


Most people don't hold Mihawk in the same esteem as the Admirals and Yonkos,so I doubt he gets that scaling. 

As of now,he has island level dc/dura.Arthur can take him handily.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## El Hermano (Feb 24, 2018)

Krash said:


> Most people don't hold Mihawk in the same esteem as the Admirals and Yonkos,so I doubt he gets that scaling.
> 
> As of now,he has island level dc/dura.Arthur can take him handily.



So why does his profile page say he's scaled to small continent?

I think that's pretty fair, tbh. Mihawk is obviously up there with the strongest people in the OPverse.


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## Mythoclast (Feb 24, 2018)

FlyingPan said:


> So why does his profile page say he's scaled to small continent?
> 
> I think that's pretty fair, tbh. Mihawk is obviously up there with the strongest people in the OPverse.


Profiles are still used?
Most barely get updated at all.

It's up for debate,but I have a hard time seeing him being able to absorb the same amount of punishment and getting up like  Akainu did.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 24, 2018)

Hes the Worlds Strongest Swordsman, thats not exactly a light title when other Worlds Strongest titles have been given to Yonko


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## El Hermano (Feb 24, 2018)

Krash said:


> Profiles are still used?
> Most barely get updated at all.
> 
> It's up for debate,but I have a hard time seeing him being able to absorb the same amount of punishment and getting up like  Akainu did.





OneSimpleAnime said:


> Hes the Worlds Strongest Swordsman, thats not exactly a light title when other Worlds Strongest titles have been given to Yonko



He's pretty much correct. Holding the title of the world's best swordsman and being able to fight with Shanks on even grounds should earn him the small continent scaling.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Feb 24, 2018)

FlyingPan said:


> He's pretty much correct. Holding the title of the world's best swordsman and being able to fight with Shanks on even grounds should earn him the small continent scaling.



Except for the fact that we do not know how much time ago those fights took place and there's a thing called "development rate", meaning, if you fight someone now and you are even, two years later with more training it may be a curbstomp on one side because of the development rate. Not only that but do you know another person who injured Shanks ? Blackbeard before he even got any of his two fruits, and Shanks makes clear that he was paying full attention to Teach. I do not see people arguing fruitless Teach to be continent level.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 24, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Except for the fact that we do not know how much time ago those fights took place and there's a thing called "development rate", meaning, if you fight someone now and you are even, two years later with more training it may be a curbstomp on one side because of the development rate. Not only that but do you know another person who injured Shanks ? Blackbeard before he even got any of his two fruits, and Shanks makes clear that he was paying full attention to Teach. I do not see people arguing fruitless Teach to be continent level.


We dont know how long ago it was that Teach injured him, and Shanks was a Yonko prior to losing his arm. Also, Mihawk still carries the title, so i dont see your point in relation to mine about the other Worlds Strongest titles being held by Yonko


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## Mr. Black Leg (Feb 24, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> We dont know how long ago it was that Teach injured him



And we don't know how many years ago the fights between them occured. I must remind you that Mihawk was in Roger's execution, so it might have happened when Shanks was a cabin boy and solely when Shanks was a cabin boy. It might've happened later ? Yes. But the point is that we don't have any sort of confirmation, rendering any pinpoint of his abilities into basic speculation.


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## Juan (Feb 24, 2018)

Shanks' duel with Mihawk shook the whole damn Grand Line due to its importance, there's no possible way it happened while he was a fucking cabin boy


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## Gunstarvillain (Feb 24, 2018)

So I'm seeing the thin line of hype vs feats and I'm out of popcorn.lol


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 24, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> And we don't know how many years ago the fights between them occured. I must remind you that Mihawk was in Roger's execution, so it might have happened when Shanks was a cabin boy and solely when Shanks was a cabin boy. It might've happened later ? Yes. But the point is that we don't have any sort of confirmation, rendering any pinpoint of his abilities into basic speculation.


They were rivals till Shanks lost an arm, and Mihawk has the WSS title while Shanks doesnt. Whats your point?


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## Mr. Black Leg (Feb 24, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> They were rivals till Shanks lost an arm, and Mihawk has the WSS title while Shanks doesnt. Whats your point?


Rivals doesn't mean they still fought until Shanks lost an arm, in the world of One Piece, people don't meet each other very often, you know. Even for things like Marines hunting Pirates down, it's not an everyday occurence, it may take years before meeting again. 

Anyway, we don't know the time, when we either get to see that they were rivals while Shanks was already Yonko or if Mihawk shows feats to support that(By, IDK, beating for fighting an admiral or a first mate), we'll have confirmation, until then, it is speculation at best.


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## Sablés (Feb 24, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> until then, it is speculation at best.


Oh wow

This retarded OL logic still exists in 2018?


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 24, 2018)

>Worlds Strongest Swordsman
>Shanks is a swordsman 

Do people not see the flaw in their logic?? No one even touched Mihawk at MF and the dude was essentially play fighting with people to pass time and test them.


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## Sablés (Feb 24, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> When did I ever say that Mihawk wasn't a top tier ? Luffy is a top tier



Top-tier is Admiral-level, as far as I'm concerned, and that's clearly what I referred to.



Mr. Black Leg said:


> you are basing your argument on speculation, same speculation can give Pre Fruits Teach Yonko status,



I don't care about that vague ass comment Shanks made about Teach. Mihawk's hype is defined on multiple points. Because we actually know there are Admiral-class swordsmen in the world, who should be weaker than him.

It's speculation in the same sense that all hyped characters who have little in the way of feats are powerscaled. Which is done pretty loosely in OP considering I've seen people give continent shit to BM despite her having no feats


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## Mr. Black Leg (Feb 24, 2018)

Sablés said:


> Top-tier is Admiral-level, as far as I'm concerned, and that's clearly what I referred to.



No it's not, Admiral level is not the threshold to top tier in One Piece, for quite a long time now. It's been FM, with the line between high high tier and top tier being Dofla/Cracker/G4 Luffy, they are nebulously between top tier and high high tier, lurking around there, with Luffy's recent succes against Katakuri, he is officially a top tier. 



Sablés said:


> I don't care about that vague ass comment Shanks made about Teach.



Vague ass comment ? "Teach gave me these three scars, and it wasn't like I was careless" is not only a specific statement, it is a fucking huge one. But we do not know if Shanks was a cabin boy at the time, or if he was a yonko, etc. 




> Mihawk's hype is defined on multiple points. Because we actually know there are Admiral-class swordsmen in the world, who should be weaker than him.



We know that there are people who use swords that are admiral-class, calling them "swordsman" does not make them justice. And, of course, there's the whole thing that the title of WSS in the world is probably given to the world's best swordsman, because if you give a sword to WB he'll instantly be the world's strongest swordsman, which doesn't make much sense. So using a sword does not make you a swordsman exactly. Like is the example of Fujitora, who uses a sword, yes, but I'd not call him a swordsman at all.

And THE ONLY thing that defines Mihawk's hype of being Yonko level is the fact that he used to duel with Shanks in a not specified amount of time in the past. Might as well be the same thing as Teach.



Sablés said:


> It's speculation in the same sense that all hyped characters who have little in the way of feats are powerscaled. Which is done pretty loosely in OP considering I've seen people give continent shit to BM despite her having no feats



No, it's very much different. BM is a Yonko, hyped to be indestructible and until now, she apparently is. Mihawk is a measly shichibukai. 

We know for a fact that Yonko > Shichibukai not only as a whole, but individually. Luffy's been murdering shichibukais since Alabasta and only now is that he can even touch a Yonko FM. So, as much as I think that Mihwk is Shanks' near equal, the fact is that we do not have proof. And I much rather not jump the fucking gun like you are doing. Until Mihawk confirms it, he is not above the highest he has showed(Being stopped by Jozu when he was " measuring the distance between him and Whitebeard").


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## Dr. White (Feb 24, 2018)

Just so we're clear I am not denying mihawk is top tier and shanks nigh equal, I donmt have a real problem eith him getting the scaling, but it's shanks >= mihawk.

But still not really gonna help him here when arthur can land a lethal sword piercing and slashing on par with mihawk's durability.


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## Sablés (Feb 24, 2018)

And if you still don't get it. I'm neither jumping the gun nor do I give an iota of fucks on who's stronger

I'm 50% relaying to you how hype/powerscaling works, 50% mocking one of the silliest, most pedantic arguments I've seen that is so prevalent among the fanbase and somehow persists till this day

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sablés (Feb 24, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> > Calls BM featless
> > Arguing for fucking Mihawk
> > BM is a fucking Yonko
> > People like Katakuri are below her
> > Could not give a lesser fuck to a G4 attack from Luffy



>Calling Mihawk featless
>Arguing for BM
>Mihawk is the fucking World Strongest Swordsman
>People like Old Rayleigh are below him
>Could not give less of a fuck about fighting Shanks as he is now.

So you see. Both characters are actually featless, as they've done very little to substantiate their hype. Now why are you giving preference to one but not the other again? 

Oh that's right. Liberal powerscaling/hype, because you've arbitrarily determined one rank is worth less than the other.



Mr. Black Leg said:


> So, if I use gravity and pull down meteors



Cool strawman, m8

Reactions: Agree 1


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 24, 2018)

DF users do not usually fall under swordsman due to mainly using their DF powers to fight. The swords are just a part of their fighting style, not the basis of it like Zoro and Mihawk


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## Dr. White (Feb 24, 2018)

Sablés said:


> Tiers are arbitrary categorizations that do not exist in-verse. Admiral-tier, is top-tier for me. First Mates like Marco can fit in there as well.
> 
> But that's besides the point. Admiral-class is the issue.
> 
> ...


Ok very easy.

>Shanks has CoC. Mihawk has not shown to have it.
> Mihawk got his slash redirected by jozu, killshot dodged by luffy, and even croc/vista could clash with him.
> Meanwhile shanks splits the heavens with WB, his mere presence is cracking the moby ship, and he casually reflects akainu's lava punch with his sword when akainu was bloodlusted and could not only melt swords with his ambient heat but blow a hole through WB.

Hali does but "being the best swordsman" is about skill with a sword" it doesn't neccesitate best haki lmao. Just like worlds strongest martial artist or world strongest best wouldn't/don't.

Maybe you should stick to clorox tables

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mr. Black Leg (Feb 24, 2018)

Sablés said:


> Cool strawman, m8





> A *straw man* is a common form of  and is an  based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man".



What strawman did I create ? You said it yourself, basically if a guy uses a sword in combat, you call him a swordsman . I'm asking if a character is within your definition, where the fuck was a strawman created ?



Sablés said:


> Oh that's right. Liberal powerscaling/hype, because you've arbitrarily determined one rank is worth less than the other.



Nope, I know what the rank of a yonko amounts to, and I do not know what WSS rank amounts to, therefore I'm waiting to know what it amounts to . I made no propositions as to " Yonko > WSS " or " WSS > Yonko", I simply stated, " we can't confirm, let's wait".


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## Dr. White (Feb 24, 2018)

Sablés said:


> Tiers are arbitrary categorizations that do not exist in-verse. Admiral-tier, is top-tier for me. First Mates like Marco can fit in there as well.
> 
> But that's besides the point. Admiral-class is the issue.
> 
> ...


Ok very easy.

>Shanks has CoC. Mihawk has not shown to have it.
> Mihawk got his slash redirected by jozu, killshot dodged by luffy, and even croc/vista could clash with him.
> Meanwhile shanks splits the heavens with WB, his mere presence is cracking the moby ship, and he casually reflects akainu's lava punch with his sword when akainu was bloodlusted and could not only melt swords with his ambient heat but blow a hole through WB.

Hali does but "being the best swordsman" is about skill with a sword" it doesn't neccesitate best haki lmao. Just like worlds strongest martial artist or world strongest best wouldn't/don't.

Maybe you should stick to clorox tables


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## Sablés (Feb 24, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> if a guy uses a sword in combat


So you didn't actually read that? I figured.

This is what I actually said.



> If some clown is skilled with a sword and *uses a sword as their primary weapon/vector for damage* then they're swordsmen. Rayleigh is a swordsman, because we know full well how he fights. Shit like Haki is supplementary to a character's fighting style. If stronger Haki allowed you to win a sword fight against Mihawk, then guess what, _you're _a stronger swordsman.



Le meteors, is not this.


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## Dayscanor (Feb 24, 2018)

xenos5 said:


> Both are island level+ swordsmen (since Excalibur Arthur can fight Assault Mode Meliodas and Zeldris at the same time). But can Mihawk contend against the skill and techniques Arthur gains from all the fallen heroes before him?
> 
> Scenario 1: no restrictions
> 
> ...


Dude way too early. You should have waited till the fight was actually over.

That chapter was misleading, hence giving it to Mihawk right now.


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## Sablés (Feb 24, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> "being the best swordsman" is about skill with a sword"


Cool fanfic.



Dr. White said:


> ust like worlds strongest martial artist


Here's why. Using DB as an analogy?

Goku, by all intents and purposes, is a martial artist.This also includes shit like teleportation, random power doping and explosions that would make a "pure" martial artist (as you seem to think swordsman is about skill only) reconsider their sanity. This principle also extends to the majority of the fighters in the verse. You going to tell me he's not a martial artist because of all of that? Sorry, the show would disagree with you.

Your problem is that you've tacked on some arbitrary limitations to what constitutes swordsman, and they're never stated in verse. The term is nebulous with so many factors involved. With the headcanon I'm seeing here, it might as well be such a worthless namesake, that nobody would ever bother mentioning it.Ironically, that's exactly your intention.


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## xenos5 (Feb 24, 2018)

Dayscanor said:


> Dude way too early. You should have waited till the fight was actually over.
> 
> That chapter was misleading, hence giving it to Mihawk right now.



Did the damage Arthur already did to Chandler and Cusack somehow get erased by them coming back after having regenerated and powering up?

He still sliced them up  So he damaged them despite their durability.


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## Dr. White (Feb 24, 2018)

Mihawk is the best swordsman. He is the most skilled with the sword while also having the stats to deal eith top tiers.

Trying to say he is stronger than anyone with skill in swordplay is retarted. There is no "head cannon" or "fanfic" here just basic common sense, and following the canon


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## Dayscanor (Feb 24, 2018)

xenos5 said:


> Did the damage Arthur already did to Chandler and Cusack somehow get erased by them coming back after having regenerated and powering up?
> 
> He still sliced them up  So he damaged them despite their durability.


They were simply trying to figure out what Excalibur can do.

So they weren't serious at all. It doesn't really show much, especially when it comes to speed.

It definitely doesn't show that he "can contend with AM Mel and Zel".


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## Sablés (Feb 24, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> Mihawk is the best swordsman. He is the most skilled with the sword while also having the stats to deal eith top tiers.


Swordsman is simply who is the strongest man that uses a sword dominantly. Anything more is speculation. You could be the most skilled asshole who mastered as many styles as possible, but if you lose to a guy who is 100% strength with a sword, then they're the better swordsman.

Like I've reiterated time and again. There are so many factors that can fall into that vague, nebulous definition that trying to isolate it to a single facet of what constitutes a swordsman is blatantly disingenous.

Fuck, that's not even getting into how the quality of the sword in question can confound the equation.


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## xenos5 (Feb 24, 2018)

Dayscanor said:


> They were simply trying to figure out what Excalibur can do.
> 
> So they weren't serious at all. It doesn't really show much, especially when it comes to speed.
> 
> It definitely doesn't show that he "can contend with AM Mel and Zel".



Them not being "serious" doesn't mean their durability is magically lowered. 

Chandler's head was lopped off after all.


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## shade0180 (Feb 24, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> Mihawk is the best swordsman.



Mihawk's title is not the best swordsman in the world, it is the strongest swordsman in the world.

Oda literally titled him The World strongest Swordsman in one of the chapter.

世界*最強*の剣士 - This is the raws for Mihawk's title...

最強 - this shit here translate to strongest. Not greatest, not the best, but the strongest.

最(Most) 強 (Strong)

 so I don't even know where the best swordsman or even the greatest swordsman came, Because shit is, his title isn't for swordplay it is for his strength as a swordsman.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Dr. White (Feb 24, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> Mihawk's title is not the best swordsman in the world, it is the strongest swordsman in the world.
> 
> Oda literally titled him The World strongest Swordsman in one of the chapter.
> 
> ...


He is the strongest swordsman lol. I don't think you are understanding my viewpoint.


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## shade0180 (Feb 24, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> He is the strongest swordsman lol. I don't think you are understanding my viewpoint.




the "strongest" swordsman.

 there's no other viewpoint.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dr. White (Feb 24, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> the "strongest" swordsman.
> 
> there's no other viewpoint.


Yes he is the best person in the art of swordsmanship.


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## shade0180 (Feb 24, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> Yes he is the best person in the art of swordsmanship.



No he isn't called the best in sword arts which is an actual word in japan.

he is called the strongest "swordsman" - Which is denoting a person not the art.

 He isn't getting praises for being artistic with swords, He is getting praises for being the strongest at swords.

you are the one who can't seem to get it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dayscanor (Feb 24, 2018)

xenos5 said:


> Them not being "serious" doesn't mean their durability is magically lowered.
> 
> Chandler's head was lopped off after all.


They're not made of steel or something. It's just muscle and bones.

Mihawk is surely capable of doing the same if not more.Unfortunely OP is pretty PG so we won't see him chop heads off. Regen or not, them being cut in half doesn't really show how durable they are, especially when we consider that they were just observing.

If you're standing there and not trying to evade an attack, then sure you'll get cut. And this is all happening in a manga where people lose limbs all the time. And not just demons. 

More importantly, the hedgehog bros didn't get cut in half, since the premise of your post implied that Arthur could fight both at the same time and even outmaneuver them, when again they were simply observing Excalibur, so they weren't serious.


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## xenos5 (Feb 24, 2018)

Dayscanor said:


> They're not made of steel or something. It's just muscle and bones.
> 
> Mihawk is surely capable of doing the same if not more.Unfortunely OP is pretty PG so we won't see him chop heads off. Regen or not, them being cut in half doesn't really show how durable they are, especially when we consider that they were just observing.
> 
> ...





If you cut off the head of an island level+ character than you overpowered their durability. I have no doubts Chandler or Cusack could tank attacks from characters like Dolor, or Critical Over Galan who are also island level+. But they could not tank a slash from Arthur w/Excalibur.

Demons are not glass cannons, so saying "they're just flesh and bone" is downplaying them immensely.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 24, 2018)

The problem is that strongest swordsman invites you to ask what the fuck "swordsman" means in the context of the title.

Is Brook a swordsman?

Is Shanks a swordsman?

Is Big Mom a swordsman?

Is Arlong a swordsman?

Is Rayleigh a swordsman?

Is Buggy a swordsman?

Is Daz Bones a swordsman?

Is Kizaru a swordsman?

Is Fujitora a swordsman?

Is Aokiji a swordsman?

Is Smoothie a swordsman?

Is Cracker a swordsman?

Is Killer a swordsman?

So far the list of people who have used a sword extends to two current admirals, an ex admiral, two yonkou and the first mate of the pirate king, is Mihawk stronger than all these people? The Shichibukai were one of the three great powers after all so maybe this barely makes sense if Mihawk was the strongest warlord.


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## shade0180 (Feb 24, 2018)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> Is Brook a swordsman?
> 
> Is Shanks a swordsman?
> 
> ...



they obviously are.



Nighty the Mighty said:


> Is Killer a swordsman?


he uses a scythe....

as for the rest no idea.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Feb 24, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> they obviously are.



Funny cause the other guy arguing your own viewpoint said that Fujitora _wasn't _a swordsman. 

See how broad the definition can be at times and that we have to wait for him to perform feats ?


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## shade0180 (Feb 24, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Funny cause the other guy arguing your own viewpoint said that Fujitora _wasn't _a swordsman.
> 
> See how broad the definition can be at times and that we have to wait for him to perform feats ?



and?

 he holds a sword, the only weapon he had used outside of his DF ability.

Also what's your point grouping us together? It doesn't matter who they see as a swordsman or don't. Shit is Shank is still a swordsman and a former rival to Mihawk.

 It doesn't change the fact that Oda titled Mihawk the strongest Swordsman in the world,


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## Mr. Black Leg (Feb 24, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> and?
> 
> he holds a sword, the only weapon he had used outside of his DF ability.
> 
> Also what's your point grouping us together?



The point is, and let me make myself clear for the thousandth time is: WE DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH INFO. Stop jumping the gun and giving scaling to Mihawk that he should not have.


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## shade0180 (Feb 24, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> The point is, and let me make myself clear for the thousandth time is: WE DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH INFO. Stop jumping the gun and giving scaling to Mihawk that he should not have.



Enough info on what.

 that Mihawk owns the title of the strongest swordsman?

Let me be frank about this.

the only gripe on the shit you guys have here is that Shanks and Rayleigh is included in that list and you can't accept it because that would mean Mihawk is stronger than shanks and rayleigh is as a swordsmen.

Seriously that's how retarded you guys are about this.

When we have White Beard as the strongest man in the world title shown up everyone just accepted it without question. And that was before any other Yonko outside of Shanks was introduce. Did we have enough info at that, No we didn't. Is anyone against  that title, no.

Not saying he isn't, just pointing out how much retarded you guys are when it comes to Mihawk's title.


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## Mr. Good vibes (Feb 24, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> Enough info on what.
> 
> that Mihawk owns the title of the strongest swordsman?
> 
> ...



You'd think the fact that Mihawk who's title has been stated over and over again throughout the course of the manga since it's earliest days would go without question by now.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Feb 24, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> Enough info on what.
> 
> that Mihawk owns the title of the strongest swordsman?
> 
> ...



Oh, tell me more about what I feel. I don't have a fucking problem with him being stronger than fucking Shanks(Or Rayleigh for that matter, who even brought Rayleigh to the discussion ?), other than that it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense a Shichibukai being stronger than a Yonko.

And info on whether he really is > Shanks. As far as I'm concerned he is a better swordsman no doubt. But we do not have info on whether 1 - Shanks is a swordsman 2 - Mihawk is stronger than Shanks or just a better swordsman 3 - How far in the past Mihawk and Shanks fought, if it's 20 years ago or 1 year ago.

And there are other shit that don't add up, to test his level, Mihawk threw a slash to see how far from WB was he and Jozu stopped. If Mihawk is all that powerful why would his slash be stopped by a Third Commander, not even by Marco(Who has been the WB pirates "target practice for hire") ? I fully expect Mihawk to be near Shanks in power, being FM level, but being weaker. But that doesn't really matter, since he's scaled to what he has shown up until now. I might be wrong, and Mihawk cuts Kaido and Shanks to ribbons in less than a second, or I might be wrong and Shanks stares at Mihawk and Mihawk faints with CoC blast. The thing is: WE DO NOT KNOW AND WE WILL CONTINUE NOT KNOWING UNTIL WE SEE MIHAWK FIGHT SOMEONE AT THAT LEVEL.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 24, 2018)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> The problem is that strongest swordsman invites you to ask what the fuck "swordsman" means in the context of the title.
> 
> Is Brook a swordsman?
> 
> ...


Yes, they mainly use swords, Brooks DF isn’t something used directly in combat. It supports his skill as a swordsman.



Nighty the Mighty said:


> Is Big Mom a swordsman?
> 
> Is Arlong a swordsman?
> 
> ...


No. They all mainly use DF powers or their fists n shit in fights. Cracker might qualify but we saw him use his sword all of twice and he just spammed the shit out of his DF. Just because you sometimes use a sword doesn’t make you a swordsman.

Doesnt matter anyway since if you count them that would be an even better supporter of how strong Mihawk is.

Reactions: Creative 1


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## shade0180 (Feb 24, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Oh, tell me more about what I feel. I don't have a fucking problem with him being stronger than fucking Shanks(Or Rayleigh for that matter, who even brought Rayleigh to the discussion ?), other than that it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense a Shichibukai being stronger than a Yonko.



It kind of does considering they are the 3rd power.



Remember 

Marine
Yonko
And Shishibukai 
are the 3 strongest power in the One piece world.

Marine has 3 admiral and 1 Fleet admiral

Yonko has 4 members.

Why would Shishibukai be the 3rd power if none of them can even compete with any of the two.

 Out of all 7 former member of the shishibukai

Mihawk
Hancock
-
Dofla 
Jinbei
Moria
Crocodile
Kuma 
-

this fucking five is a joke compared to any of the other power.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sablés (Feb 24, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> other than that it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense a Shichibukai being stronger than a Yonko.


What does this even mean?

Shichibukai is probably the most varying group in terms of strength. They start from Base/G2-3 Luffy-tier characters and break it all the way into the top-tiers. Why does Mihawk being a Shichibukai mean anything here? The only requisite is that the WG deems you as a strong pirate. Conversely, Yonkou _can't _just be strong pirates. They need a crew and influence of other strong pirates to match. Mihawk operates solo.

Hell, the fact that Shichibukai are meant to balance out Admirals/Yonkou should actually go a long way to boosting Mihawk's hype, because none of the other seven were even close to that level


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## Mr. Black Leg (Feb 24, 2018)

Sablés said:


> What does this even mean?
> 
> Shichibukai is probably the most varying group in terms of strength. They start from Base/G2-3 Luffy-tier characters and break it all the way into the top-tiers. Why does Mihawk being a Shichibukai mean anything here? The only requisite is that the WG deems you as a strong pirate. Conversely, Yonkou _can't _just be strong pirates. They need a crew and influence of other strong pirates to match. Mihawk operates solo.
> 
> Hell, the fact that Shichibukai are meant to balance out Admirals/Yonkou should actually go a long way to boosting Mihawk's hype, because none of the other seven were even close to that level



Increasing in numbers means less quality individually.

3-4 Admirals vs 4 Yonko vs 7 shichibukai. 

Each shichibukai is weaker .


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 24, 2018)

Fucking Dofla and Moria and Crocodile were in the Shichibukai and none of them are top tiers. Big Meme has 3 people that could own the fuck out of them, with even more who could give them good fights.

For them to be a significant factor in the world they would need people like Mihawk in them.

 high tier Law and Kuma, and shit tier Buggy are the only other 3. Mihawk is the standout strongest by a massive margin until Hancock actually gets feats to give her better placement.


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## Sablés (Feb 24, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Increasing in numbers means less quality individually.





Sablés said:


> Hell, the fact that Shichibukai are meant to balance out Admirals/Yonkou should actually go a long way to boosting Mihawk's hype, because *none of the other seven were even close to that level*



And by this logic, the Yonkou are weaker than the Admirals individually because there were only 3 if the latter to start with. Who were the WSM and WSC again?


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 24, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Increasing in numbers means less quality individually.
> 
> 3-4 Admirals vs 4 Yonko vs 7 shichibukai.
> 
> Each shichibukai is weaker .


Except first mate level fighters could wipe the floor with 6/7 of the Shichibukai. Thats not even Yonko or Admiral level fighters


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## Zern227 (Feb 24, 2018)

Just to clarify on things, Mihawk has refused to face Shanks for at least 12 years because he lost his arm. And it's unclear when Shanks became a Yonko since there's no definitive time he became it. All we know is that he was strong guy and people were surprised he lost an arm in the Weakest Sea, which doesn't guarantee that he was a Yonko at the time.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mr. Black Leg (Feb 24, 2018)

Sablés said:


> And by this logic, the Yonkou are weaker than the Admirals individually because there were only 3 to start with. Who were the WSM and WSC again?



They had Garp and Sengoku somehow still active. Garp was confident he could kill Sakazuki, and was the only one to actually damage Marco in phoenix form, I would not take him lightly.

Edit: 





OneSimpleAnime said:


> Mihawk is the standout strongest by a massive margin until Hancock actually gets feats to give her better placement.



OOOOOOOOOOOH NOW I SEE, SO MIHAWK = DOES NOT NEED FEATS AND HANOCK = NEEDS FEATS. 

Such a foolish guy I am.


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## Sablés (Feb 24, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> They had Garp and Sengoku somehow still active.


They are not part of the equation. The 3GP are explicitly, the 4 Yonkou, 3 Admirals and 7 Shichibukai.

And you also refused to address the giant ass elephant in the room of how none of the other 6 Shichibukai would be worth dirt to even a First-mate.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 24, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> They had Garp and Sengoku somehow still active. Garp was confident he could kill Sakazuki, and was the only one to actually damage Marco in phoenix form, I would not take him lightly.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> ...


She has no hype or titles to work off of. Stop making a fool of yourself


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## Mr. Black Leg (Feb 24, 2018)

Sablés said:


> They are not part of the equation. The 3GP are explicitly, the 4 Yonkou, 3 Admirals and 7 Shichibukai.
> 
> And you also refused to address the giant ass elephant in the room of how none of the other 6 Shichibukai would be worth dirt to even a First-mate.



I don't need to. Because that's what I am arguing. Shichibukai are weaker than Yonko. 

Oh not to mention that the shichibukai aren't a group, they are aiding the 3 Admirals side and if they were somehow dissolved, they would not work as a unit group.


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## shade0180 (Feb 24, 2018)

Funny shit is Kaido's title WSC isn't even getting questioned and outside of surviving whitebeard and pummelling the kid's pirate he had done shit for feats.


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## shade0180 (Feb 24, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> OOOOOOOOOOOH NOW I SEE, SO MIHAWK = DOES NOT NEED FEATS AND HANOCK = NEEDS FEATS.



Hancock had no title or anything going for her.

 Mihawk hold a title.]


Mr. Black Leg said:


> hey had Garp and Sengoku somehow still active. Garp was confident he could kill Sakazuki, and was the only one to actually damage Marco in phoenix form, I would not take him lightly.



And they are not included with the 3 powers.



Mr. Black Leg said:


> Oh not to mention that the shichibukai aren't a group, they are aiding the 3 Admirals side and if they were somehow dissolved, they would not work as a unit group.



And? the admirals if dissolve won't work as a unit or a group. the Yonko isn't a group.

They are 3 powers in the world not 3 groups in the world.

 this is just a cop out.


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## Sablés (Feb 24, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Shichibukai are weaker than Yonko.


Not according to the plot they're not.

Whether their feats stack up is another matter. But the fact that Mihawk is a top-tier already places him as a massive outlier among their ranks.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Feb 24, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> Funny shit is Kaido's title WSC isn't even getting questioned and outside of surviving whitebeard and pummelling the kid's pirate he had done shit for feats.



I am questioning. I think Sakazuki and BB > Kaido. But they are all in the same ballpark, because they are Admiral-Yonko level. Note one thing: there is not the word shichibukai in "Admiral-Yonko level".


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## Sablés (Feb 24, 2018)

Sablés said:


> Shichibukai is probably the most varying group in terms of strength. They start from Base/G2-3 Luffy-tier characters and break it all the way into the top-tiers. Why does Mihawk being a Shichibukai mean anything here? The only requisite is that the WG deems you as a strong pirate. Conversely, Yonkou _can't _just be strong pirates. They need a crew and influence of other strong pirates to match. Mihawk operates solo.


You also forgot to reply to this very big hole in your logic, genius.


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## shade0180 (Feb 24, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> I am questioning. I think Sakazuki and BB > Kaido. But they are all in the same ballpark, because they are Admiral-Yonko level. Note one thing: there is not the word shichibukai in "Admiral-Yonko level".



That admiral-yonko level, is a fan made term.

 Oda didn't use that level shit.

Only shit ODA confirmed is that the 3 powers are

the admirals, the SHishibuka and the Yonko.

Each of this shit are individuals that can work on their own or as a group.

and they are there to take a check with each other.

5 out of 7 Shishibukai can be steam rolled by any of the Yonko, which means some where out of the 7 in that list needed to be able to clean up that mess and be able to hold  the reigns and be equal to the other 2 to get the point of why they are the 3rd power, Which means it falls to both Hancock - Who still has her own crew, and Mihawk who fight solo and has the titles of the SSW.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 24, 2018)

You people need to realise that One Piece is more complex than Naruto and that the Schichibukai are not the Akatsuki 

Crocodile took over a whole country in a coup - he did this not with his own martial skill but with the organisation Baroque Works which he built for himself from the ground up and which seemingly represented a large part of the criminal underworld in early Paradise.  Likewise you have people like Hancock who can call on the entire military strength of Amazon Lily if she wants to; Gecko Moriah with his zombie army; Doflamingo who is like Hancock and Crocodile put together; Buggy who now runs a PMC and so on.

Hell, even Luffy at this point is assembling the Straw Hat Grand Fleet, he's infinitely more of a threat because of this (to the WG and to the Yonkou) than he would be if he still just had the core Strawhat crew.

Reactions: Like 1 | Useful 1 | Creative 1


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## Mr. Black Leg (Feb 24, 2018)

> Shichibukai is probably the most varying group in terms of strength. They start from Base/G2-3 Luffy-tier characters and break it all the way into the top-tiers.



Yes. 



> Why does Mihawk being a Shichibukai mean anything here?



Because no shichibukai could even dream of messing with a yonko. Point in case: Jozu seems to be comfortable fighting Mihawk and Vista too. I do not think that they would last 1 second against WB. 



> The only requisite is that the WG deems you as a strong pirate. Conversely, Yonkou _can't _just be strong pirates. They need a crew and influence of other strong pirates to match. Mihawk operates solo.



So ... You're saying that "less quantity means more individual quality" but when I said that I'm being dumb ... Right ... 

If you show to me one scene that makes Mihawk undoubtedly Yonko-Admiral level by having him fight one Yonko-Admiral level guy, I'll shut up.


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## shade0180 (Feb 24, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> If you show to me one scene that makes Mihawk undoubtedly Yonko-Admiral level by having him fight one Yonko-Admiral level guy, I'll shut up.



Shanks now pls shut up.


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## Sablés (Feb 24, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Because no shichibukai could even dream of messing with a yonko.


>Says you.

But even assuming that was the case. A Yonkou has an army with at least several of some of the strongest pirates in the sea. Why would any Shichibukai go out of their way to fight them without reason?



Mr. Black Leg said:


> Jozu seems to be comfortable fighting Mihawk



Don't care what they're comfortable with. Luffy's comfortable fighting off Fujitora despite the latter vastly outclassing him. What are they supposed to do? Lack all confidence in their abilities and run from the opposition in a war? Is that why Jozu didn't run from Kuzan? Or why Croc thought he could fight Whitebeard?




Mr. Black Leg said:


> You're saying that "less quantity means more individual quality"



You have no idea what I'm saying. You're strawmnning like crazy. Case in point.



Mr. Black Leg said:


> show to me one scene that makes Mihawk undoubtedly Yonko-Admiral level



Is painfully irrelevant. This discussion is based on the validity of hype and the double standards involved in powerscaling from it.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 24, 2018)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> You people need to realise that One Piece is more complex than Naruto and that the Schichibukai are not the Akatsuki
> 
> Crocodile took over a whole country in a coup - he did this not with his own martial skill but with the organisation Baroque Works which he built for himself from the ground up and which seemingly represented a large part of the criminal underworld in early Paradise.  Likewise you have people like Hancock who can call on the entire military strength of Amazon Lily if she wants to; Gecko Moriah with his zombie army; Doflamingo who is like Hancock and Crocodile put together; Buggy who now runs a PMC and so on.
> 
> Hell, even Luffy at this point is assembling the Straw Hat Grand Fleet, he's infinitely more of a threat because of this (to the WG and to the Yonkou) than he would be if he still just had the core Strawhat crew.


Mihawk has no crew or anything, yet he is still a Shichibukai. Dude sails around on a raft yet is the strongest of the Shichibukai, the only top tier in the group so far


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## Sablés (Feb 24, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Mihawk has no crew or anything, yet he is still a Shichibukai. Dude sails around on a raft yet is the strongest of the Shichibukai


Not the point, tbf


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## Mr. Black Leg (Feb 24, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> Shanks now pls shut up.



In a specified amount of time ago please. Yonko are always fighting other Yonko. 



Sablés said:


> Don't care what they're comfortable with. Luffy's comfortable fighting off Fujitora despite the latter vastly outclassing him. What are they supposed to do? Lack all confidence in their abilities and run from the opposition? Is that why Jozu didn't run from Kuzan?



Sigh ... By comfortable I don't actually mean cozy and warm. By comfortable I mean you actually have a battle, you have a match. Luffy is "comfortable" fighting Doflamingo in G4 . Understand now ? Jozu and Vista are in the level of Mihawk so much so that Marco himself didn't bother fighting him, he went for the admirals, people who are stronger. 



Sablés said:


> Is painfully irrelevant. This discussion is based on the validity of hype.



> Irrelevant
> Would ultimately prove your point and make me wrong about having or not info
> IRRELEVANT



Sablés said:


> >Says you.
> 
> But even assuming that was the case. A Yonkou has an army with at least several of some of the strongest pirates in the sea.



Do you have a scan of Shichibukai owning Yonko ? I certainly don't. Mihawk did not own fucking Jozu and you're pushing him to be able to fight with WB ? And I'm the crazy one ?

Hilariously, the one from the shichibukai that is the nearest to messing with a Yonko is Buggy.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 24, 2018)

What we're talking about here when we talk about the triaxial world of one piece is the ability to project force - it ceases to necessarily be about how strong the individuals are and becomes about how well they can contest the other powers for territory and control.

The Marines run the Four Blues unquestioned
The Schichibukai and the Marines together can more or less keep Paradise in line but it's an uneasy balance
The Yonkou run the New World unquestioned

When people talk about the three great powers and the balance between them they're not talking about a 10v10 slugfest between the top tiers on both sides.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 24, 2018)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> What we're talking about here when we talk about the triaxial world of one piece is the ability to project force - it ceases to necessarily be about how strong the individuals are and becomes about how well they can contest the other powers for territory and control.
> 
> The Marines run the Four Blues unquestioned
> The Schichibukai and the Marines together can more or less keep Paradise in line but it's an uneasy balance
> ...



pre-skip btw, the balance falls apart after Marineford and this ceases to be true


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## Sablés (Feb 24, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Sigh ... By comfortable I don't actually mean cozy and warm. By comfortable I mean you actually have a battle, you have a match. Luffy is "comfortable" fighting Doflamingo in G4 . Understand now ? Jozu and Vista are in the level of Mihawk so much so that Marco himself didn't bother fighting him, he went for the admirals, people who are stronger.


Jozu was comfortable fighting Aokiji until he got distracted. Marineford was a complete clusterfuck of feats. One Mihawk definitely wasn't taking seriously.



> > Irrelevant
> > Would ultimately prove your point and make me wrong about having or not info
> > IRRELEVANT





> Do you have a scan of Shichibukai owning Yonko ?


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## Mr. Black Leg (Feb 24, 2018)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> What we're talking about here when we talk about the triaxial world of one piece is the ability to project force - it ceases to necessarily be about how strong the individuals are and becomes about how well they can contest the other powers for territory and control.
> 
> The Marines run the Four Blues unquestioned
> The Schichibukai and the Marines together can more or less keep Paradise in line but it's an uneasy balance
> ...



Yes, in general. One thing though that even Oda himself forgot to mention was the fucking revs. They should be in this equation.



Sablés said:


> Jozu was comfortable fighting Aokiji until he got distracted. Marineford was a complete clusterfuck of feats. One Mihawk definitely wasn't taking seriously.



It cost him the fight. In Luffy vs Katakuri, a fight where Katakuri stands superior even with snakeman, Luffy got distracted and wasn't one shoted. If you are one shoted by your opponent, you aren't much of a threat to him really(Well, not in One Piece world anyway, where people get up from tremendous amounts of damage a single shot isn't really doing much).


But do you have proof or not that Mihawk > Shanks or at least Mihawk = Shanks since he(Shanks) became a Yonko ?

Because if you do not, then I am correct. If you do, then I am wrong.

Edit: 





Nighty the Mighty said:


> pre-skip btw, the balance falls apart after Marineford and this ceases to be true



They also fall short with the new generation + Rev. army.


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## Dr. White (Feb 24, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> No he isn't called the best in sword arts which is an actual word in japan.
> 
> he is called the strongest "swordsman" - Which is denoting a person not the art.
> 
> ...


Dude this is the same fucking thing. He is the most skilled and powerful at using swords. This isn't real life where a human only using a sword can only realy on the sword. There is haki and other abilities to take into account. Nothing about shanks M.O makes you think he is dedicated to the fucking sword like Mihawk is. Like vista is. Like zoro is. Et fucking cetera. Shanks is just really skilled at sword fighting and is clear lean too is haki. He ises a sword because it's the most comfortable weapon he can use over blunt weapons, guns, etc. a true swordsman focuses their art around swords and the styles around it. Same thing with fujitora. His main weapon is a sword so by your logic he is a swordsman and therefore weaker


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## Sablés (Feb 24, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> It cost him the fight.


 Doesn't matter, and I didn't say Jozu was equal to Aokiji either. You were making claims revolving around who can fight the other comfortably. Jozu can do it to Kuzan, so how is that argument against Mihawk being at that level? Especially when you can't even prove the man was fighting all out.



> But do you have proof or not that Mihawk > Shanks or at least Mihawk = Shanks since he(Shanks) became a Yonko ?


Don't need it, because it's not my argument. The World's Strongest Swordsman title is my argument. Shanks and Rayleigh are characters who fit that standard. Shanks by appearance and lack of a DF but Rayleigh assuredly based on his showings in Sabody. Both are Admiral-level. Mihawk's title warrants powerscaling from at least Rayleigh, and can extend to Shanks.

The Yonkou were brought up here, because you somehow think their titles should be taken completely at face value despite their similar lack of feats.

You continue to misrepresent this blatant double standard


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## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 24, 2018)

the tl;dr of this discussion is that Mihawk being a schichibukai doesn't necessarily mean that he is or isn't weaker than an emperor in the 1v1 matchup

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mr. Black Leg (Feb 24, 2018)

TL;DR indeed.

I am too happy right now to enter a discussion. Actually, I'm so happy I don't even care.

This happened:

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Kroczilla (Feb 25, 2018)

imho, the whole "3 world power" concept in one piece doesn't fit with what the story has shown so far.

the concept implies that the 3 world powers i.e. the marines, the shishibukai and the emperors are even rivals in a stalemate. 

but this doesn't fit with what we've been shown. so far, we ve seen;

1) the world government shit itself at the thought of an actual alliance between two emperors (shanks and WB)
2) two of the so called world powers combine their powers to stop a single emperor already past his prime. sure you could argue that mihawk never took the battle seriously but the Marines had the home field and prep advantage while whitebeard was so far past his prime, he couldn't even use King's haki.
3) doflamingo, one of the shishibukai was crapping bricks at the thought of pissing off an emperor.


imho, the only reason there are 3 world powers is because the emperors are more concerned with fighting each other than actually challenging the WG. if even two or more emperors ever formed an alliance, the other 2 world powers would be helpless to stop them.

Also don't see mihawk being shanks equal. sure they were rivals but that was years ago. 
current mihawk still felt the need to check the gap between himself and the WSM. Shanks clashed evenly with the WSM.
mihawk overall didn't really achieve much in the marine ford battle. Shanks pretty much ended the war just by being there

mihawk was getting challenged by the likes of jozu and Vista (you could argue that he never went all out but still...). on the other hand, not even a rampaging Akainu aka "all pirates must fucking die" dared to fuck with shanks (dude damn nearly had a heart attack when he realized who had blocked lava punch).

Basically, despite mihawk ' s title,  current portrayal puts shanks solidly above mihawk. 

on topic; we really ought to wait for more feats from Arthur.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Vermilion Kn (Feb 25, 2018)

Kroczilla said:


> the concept implies that the 3 world powers i.e. the marines, the shishibukai and the emperors are even rivals in a stalemate.



Eh, not quite.

The Shichibukai are pirates sanctioned by the government to serve 2 functions: Curl noob pirates that are entering the game and backing up the marines against the Yonko.


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## Mythoclast (Feb 25, 2018)

Kroczilla said:


> on topic; we really ought to wait for more feats from Arthur.


Ehh.His current feats should suffice.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Feb 25, 2018)

Vermilion Kn said:


> Eh, not quite.
> 
> The Shichibukai are pirates sanctioned by the government to serve 2 functions: Curl noob pirates that are entering the game and backing up the marines against the Yonko.



You are right, but Oda insisted in a failed parallel between them that they keep in a standstill. And we know that two yonko crew = Dead shichibukai and dead marines.


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## Kroczilla (Feb 25, 2018)

Vermilion Kn said:


> Eh, not quite.
> 
> The Shichibukai are pirates sanctioned by the government to serve 2 functions: Curl noob pirates that are entering the game and backing up the marines against the Yonko.




not really. when the concept of the Shichibukai was first introduced, iirc they were referred to as one of the three great powers keeping the balance of the world.

sure they were created and chosen by the marines but that title implies that they can contend with the other world powers including the emperors. we even got a hint of this pre timeskip when it was stated that gecko moria was able to fight kaidou  (obviously we know he got curbstomped but the way the statement was framed implied it was actually a huge battle btwn rivals).


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## Kroczilla (Feb 25, 2018)

Krash said:


> Ehh.His current feats should suffice.



mihawk is island lvl same as current  Arthur right?


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## Vermilion Kn (Feb 25, 2018)

Kroczilla said:


> not really. when the concept of the Shichibukai was first introduced, iirc they were referred to as one of the three great powers keeping the balance of the world.



They are, just not in the way you think. The Shichibukai were never said to be an equal power to the marines or Yonko, they are one of the 3 great powers that keep balance in the OP world and they do so in the ways I mentioned. They act as a buffer, not as an equal power.


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## El Hermano (Feb 25, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Except for the fact that we do not know how much time ago those fights took place and there's a thing called "development rate", meaning, if you fight someone now and you are even, two years later with more training it may be a curbstomp on one side because of the development rate. Not only that but do you know another person who injured Shanks ? Blackbeard before he even got any of his two fruits, and Shanks makes clear that he was paying full attention to Teach. I do not see people arguing fruitless Teach to be continent level.



But we don't really know the circumstances of how was Shanks wounded (at least as far as I recall)and when.




Kroczilla said:


> mihawk is island lvl same as current  Arthur right?


DC wise yes, he's island level+. Durability wise it depends on if you accept him being scaled to the likes of Akainu, which is basically what lead to 2-3 pages of arguing about titles in OP.
According to his OBD profile he does get the scaling, but it looks like profiles are not absolute in this forum. At least that's the impression I got from Krash's comment.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Feb 25, 2018)

FlyingPan said:


> But we don't really know the circumstances of how was Shanks wounded (at least as far as I recall)and when.



You are making my point, really. We don't know the circumstances of the clashes between the two of them. If Shanks was already a yonko, a super power, or a cabin boy, or a pirate on his own but not yet a yonko, etc.


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## trance (Feb 25, 2018)

arthur is what now...40ish gts? mihawk is about twice that but is slower

so, he at least wins the speed equal scenario


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## El Hermano (Feb 25, 2018)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> You are making my point, really. We don't know the circumstances of the clashes between the two of them. If Shanks was already a yonko, a super power, or a cabin boy, or a pirate on his own but not yet a yonko, etc.


But we do know their battles echoed throughout the entire grand line. We do know that Mihawk is the best swordsman alive as well. That alone implies that it didn't happen when Shanks was a mere cabin boy. Otherwise, no one would give a darn(unless he was an extremely strong, renowned cabin boy). As far as we know, him being able to fight on even grounds with Mihawk/hold his own against Mihawk is what earned him his reputation and measured his true strength. Turning him from a non name into a well renowned pirate.

On the other hand, Shank's been bearing his scars for over 12 years as far as we know. It happened before he lost his hand, leading to Mihawk losing interest in fighting him. So it's plausible that he's been bearing those scars since before he became a Yonko/started gaining power and fame. Much more plausible than Shanks shaking the entire grand line while facing the best swordsman alive as a mere cabin boy with no true strength.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Feb 25, 2018)

FlyingPan said:


> unless he was an extremely strong, renowned cabin boy



Which is not far fetched at all since in OP people show strength or signs that they will be fucking powerful from a young age, and Shanks was literally in the strongest pirate ship ever. 



FlyingPan said:


> As far as we know, him being able to fight on even grounds with Mihawk/hold his own against Mihawk is what earned him his reputation and measured his true strength. Turning him from a non name into a well renowned pirate



It could be, really.



FlyingPan said:


> Much much more plausible than Shanks shaking the entire grand line while facing the best swordsman alive as a mere cabin boy.



Possible, too. 


The thing we do not know is : which one is it ? You see, your entire post just adds to my point that we do not know how far back it was, so we will have to wait for confirmation, rather than jumping the gun and saying that Mihawk only fought Shanks when Shanks was already a Yonko.

My personal theory is that since Shanks was a cabin boy, he was already seen as a great prospect and in one of Roger's many adventures, Shanks fought Mihawk and they started their rivalry, as a cabin boy. And then the clashes became more frequent and happened over and over again cementing itself as a great clash between two unbelievable strong people that had similar growing rates, and ultimately Shanks' growth rate is slightly superior and he is slightly stronger than Mihawk.

But again, this is my personal theory, we don't know if it is true, we don't know which one is true, really. Shanks gets scaled to the highest feats because he clashed against WB, and Kaido and BM get the scaling because we know that, as a Yonko, they clashed against each other for sure. We do not know if Yonko Shanks clashed with Mihawk. We know that Shanks clashed with Mihawk, but _Yonko_ Shanks ? We have no knowledge of that.


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## Dr. White (Feb 25, 2018)

FlyingPan said:


> But we don't really know the circumstances of how was Shanks wounded (at least as far as I recall)and when.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No it's about damage soak, not durability.


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## B Rabbit (Feb 25, 2018)

Oda himself said that Mihawk was a legend comparable to Shanks and Rayleigh. Two verified top tier fighters.

The Worlds Strongest Swordsman means that when it comes to the sword. Mihawk is the number 1. Mihawk is a top tier. And gets scalled to anything the top tiers do. The whole personality of Mihawk. Is that he's a bored man. Looking for a fight.

The balance of power does not mean Shichibukai=Admirals=Yonkou in power
 It means keeping the seas safe so no one finds the OP and breaks the peace.

Shichibukai are only there to.stop noob pirates. And backup the marines incase the Yonkous come back.


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## Typhon (Feb 26, 2018)

Adamant soul said:


> That's fine but Mihawk was a rival to an actual Yonko (Shanks) rather than a commander, said Yonko traded blows with Whitebeard and casually stopped Akainu in his tracks. Not saying Mihawk would stomp casually but he should be above them at the very least.


Shanks wasn't a Yonkou when he rivaled Mihawk. That was a Shanks that could get injured by Blackbeard


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## Sherlōck (Feb 27, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> No it's about damage soak, not durability.



Again with this argument. 

I will just redirect to Stables & Magina's post from the other thread. Even Magina is making sense. It's like 8th wonder of the world.



Sablés said:


> mmhmm
> 
> so like, do u not get that endurance and durability are linked or something?





Sablés said:


> Because I'll tell you right now that the fact that Akainu's body didn't shatter or get a gigantic hole blown right through him is a testament to how sturdy his body is.
> 
> Endurance is just how much pain you can tolerate before giving out. Whitebeard getting his face blown off but still fighting, is pure endurance. Akainu's feat is both.





Imagine said:


> And this is also bullshit. You don't have to get durability feats just by tanking. Tanking is an often over and incorrectly used term. Very rarely does any character in fiction tank anything. Akainu endured WB's quakes. He take to take two of those to go down and it wasn't enough to kill him or anything. He, in fact, that was able to take half of WB's face off after taking the first hit which tells you that what WB was putting out wasn't enough to put Akainu down initially.


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## Dr. White (Feb 27, 2018)

Sherlōck said:


> Again with this argument.
> 
> I will just redirect to Stables & Magina's post from the other thread. Even Magina is making sense. It's like 8th wonder of the world.


Yes and the agreed upon thing is that admirals get island+ dc from that. No where continental level which is pure bullshit.

You wanna argue giant john gets the scaling and therefore any vice admiral worth his salt?

Akainu got his shit knocked in and was able to recuperate after being hit. Damage soak is not durability which is why we fucking call it damage soak. There is a difference between aoe attacks of a certain level and concentrated attacks. This has always been the case here. The only admiral who gets high island durability scaling is akainu, cause he is the one who tanked it, the rest fet damage soak. Mihawk is not getting that and so somone with 48 Gt can injure him still with piercing/slashing.


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## Sherlōck (Feb 27, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> Yes and the agreed upon thing is that admirals get island+ dc from that. No where continental level which is pure bullshit.



No one agreed upon that. No regular was even here for that.



Dr. White said:


> You wanna argue giant john gets the scaling and therefore any vice admiral worth his salt?



John was knocked out. And he wasn't hit point blank like Akainu either. No idea why WB would even use that level of attack against a VA anyway. 



Dr. White said:


> Akainu got his shit knocked in and was able to recuperate after being hit. Damage soak is not durability which is why we fucking call it damage soak. There is a difference between aoe attacks of a certain level and concentrated attacks. This has always been the case here. The only admiral who gets high island durability scaling is akainu, cause he is the one who tanked it, the rest fet damage soak. Mihawk is not getting that and so somone with 48 Gt can injure him still with piercing/slashing.



Durability isn't taking attacks with no damage. That's the bullshit I don't know who started here & caught on. Ability to survive an attack has always been used as durability in OBD.

Calling it damage soak to make it look technical isn't going to cut it.

I don't know what are you babbling about for rest of the post.

Mihawk is a certified top tier along with Yonko & Admirals. Why the fuck he isn't getting that? Cause you say so? Every top tier gets continent durability. Yonko's used to fight Whitebeard when he was much younger & healthy. Admirals are on the same level & Akainu took attacks from WB without much problem. He even took half of WB's face after taking a hit on his *head*. Later he fought WB commanders to a standstill & even took out one of them in process.

Can someone injure top tiers with 48 Gt attack? They can't (when they are using hardening black haki). Garp already proved that by taking an attack double it's power with no damage. Can someone injure top tiers with an attack above 80 Gt? Yes they probably can. But as top tiers can take continent level attacks it won't hinder them or do much damage to their physique.


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## Imagine (Feb 27, 2018)

Seems we need to have a talk on what durability actually is because y'all are really having a hard time grasping this.


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## Dellinger (Feb 27, 2018)

White speaking about dick sucking :heston

Also Sherlock doesn’t have to prove anything. It’s been repeatedly stated that the Yonko have clashed with each other.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Feb 27, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> But WB knocked Akainu the fuck out



I'm lost in this debate but that's actually not true. Sakazuki was awake at all times during the battle, he just fell into the shaft badly hurt.


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## John Wayne (Feb 27, 2018)

If you survive two punches from someone who's bloodlusted then that implies your durability is somewhat comparable to their DC.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## B Rabbit (Feb 27, 2018)

Whitebeard never knocked out Akainu. If that were true Akainu would have died because when he fell into the split MF he would have fell into the ocean. We know anyways what took him so long to come back was digging back up to the surface.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Keishin (Feb 27, 2018)

Endurance and durability have always been separate though.


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## Gunstarvillain (Feb 27, 2018)

Keishin said:


> Endurance and durability have always been separate though.


True but your stability in lasting in a fight may be weighed in how much damage you can soak or a certain amount of damage to take effect at all so it's always been funky especially here. Cbr has that under control more so due to being heavily comic than non comic but we'll get better 

Maybe


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## Keishin (Feb 27, 2018)

Gunstarvillain said:


> True but your stability in lasting in a fight may be weighed in how much damage you can soak or a certain amount of damage to take effect at all so it's always been funky especially here. Cbr has that under control more so due to being heavily comic than non comic but we'll get better
> 
> Maybe


Not when it comes to hax... Since King can bruise Meliodas he can use Status Promotion to make the damage much bigger and Meliodas bleeding from a massive wound. Since he can pierce Ban he can petrify him...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Gunstarvillain (Feb 27, 2018)

Keishin said:


> Not when it comes to hax... Since King can bruise Meliodas he can use Status Promotion to make the damage much bigger and Meliodas bleeding from a massive wound. Since he can pierce Ban he can petrify him...


Well yeah it's not physical damage.lol


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## Sablés (Feb 27, 2018)

Sherlōck said:


> His title & his past clashes is all we need to put him up there. There are three people with "Worlds Strongest Title" & one of them is Mihawk. And his niche has Yonko/Admiral in it's midst.



White thinks WSS title only refers to who has the best skill. In other words it doesnt matter if another swordsman is far faster, stronger, more durable and overall more powerful. You just need to have the most skill.

As if this shit has been stated anywhere, instead of using common sense to get that world strongest swordsman literally means the swordsman that is the strongest in the world.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Sherlōck (Feb 27, 2018)

Sablés said:


> White thinks WSS title only refers to who has the best skill. In other words it doesnt matter if another swordsman is far faster, stronger, more durable and overall more powerful. You just need to have the most skill.
> 
> As if this shit has been stated anywhere, instead of using common sense to get that world strongest swordsman literally means the swordsman that is the strongest in the world.



One of OL's resident got into an argument about this with @Admiral Kizaru maybe. He later went to ask the official translator for VIZ about it on twitter & he confirmed that Oda meant Strongest Swordsman.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## EternalRage (Feb 27, 2018)

this thread is still going when weak ass arthur got fodderized one chapter later

Reactions: Old 1


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## Masterblack06 (Feb 27, 2018)

Jesus christ, this many pages just to talk about whether Mihawks title is legit or not.


EternalRage said:


> this thread is still going when weak ass arthur got fodderized one chapter later


The man believed his own hype to much


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## shade0180 (Feb 27, 2018)

Sherlōck said:


> He later went to ask the official translator for VIZ about it on twitter & he confirmed that Oda meant Strongest Swordsman.



 as I said in another thread.


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## Kingdom Come (Feb 27, 2018)

Masterblack06 said:


> Jesus christ, this many pages just to talk about whether Mihawks title is legit or not.
> 
> The man believed his own hype to much

Reactions: Funny 1 | Useful 1


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## Dr. White (Feb 27, 2018)

Sablés said:


> White thinks WSS title only refers to who has the best skill. In other words it doesnt matter if another swordsman is far faster, stronger, more durable and overall more powerful. You just need to have the most skill.
> 
> As if this shit has been stated anywhere, instead of using common sense to get that world strongest swordsman literally means the swordsman that is the strongest in the world.


Except all of those things go hand in hand with the most skilled. Which is why Zoro has to train his ass off lifting humongous ass weights on the sunny to be capable of earning his skills, and if you actually read the thread you would know I already admitted multiple times he is the strongest swordsman. That doesn't mean he can beat everyone who uses a sword, unless said character (like zoro) explicitly only relies on swordsplay.


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## Dr. White (Feb 27, 2018)

EternalRage said:


> this thread is still going when weak ass arthur got fodderized one chapter later


>"fodderized"
> Mid tier character powers up and spends a chapter styling on 4 of the top tiers in the verse only to eventually get overwhelmed
> Choose one.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Masterblack06 (Feb 27, 2018)

Well Technically his title is Greatest Swordsman in the World


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## Mythoclast (Feb 27, 2018)

EternalRage said:


> this thread is still going when weak ass arthur got fodderized one chapter later


How does getting incapacitated by hax take anything away from him?He's still island level+

Reactions: Agree 1


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## shade0180 (Feb 27, 2018)

Masterblack06 said:


> Well Technically his title is Greatest Swordsman in the World



wrong.

 his title is the World's Strongest Swordsman.


世界最強の剣士

the words use is this 最強

世界 - World

最 - Most

強 - Strong


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## Steven (Feb 27, 2018)

Arthur via better swordskills.


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## Gunstarvillain (Feb 27, 2018)

The amount of shpleahhhh has mutiplied by infinite


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## Masterblack06 (Feb 27, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> wrong.
> 
> his title is the World's Strongest Swordsman.
> 
> ...


Well shit son, someone said this exact same thing to me except with Greatest. I've been bamboozled


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 27, 2018)

Also I believe another translator said it was “#1 person who uses a sword” if you want the whole thing spelled out


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## CrossTheHorizon (Feb 27, 2018)

Chapters out now.

First off, the demons took no damage from the attacks.



Second, they say they let him hit them to see what was up with the sword.



There was no overwhelming taking place, the sword basically pissed itself out of fear and gave up without a fight

*Spoiler*: __ 








So yeah, Arthur doesn't scale to shit.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Dr. White (Feb 27, 2018)

CrossTheHorizon said:


> Chapters out now.
> 
> First off, the demons took no damage from the attacks.
> 
> ...




Clearly saving face which is outlined by him not even knowing his moustache got cut. Very similar to Galan talking shit after escanor cut him in half and then he began regening.

Arthur still scales because he legit cut two of them in half, and could send Mel and Zel flying, two people which we know would not just let Arthur hit them like that. Remember this was a legit mid tier before gaining his power up, and still doesn't have his strength or magic unlocked. It's essentially UI light.

Also ignoring that Arthur is facing four top tiers.


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## CrossTheHorizon (Feb 27, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> Clearly saving face which is outlined by him not even knowing his moustache got cut. Very similar to Galan talking shit after escanor cut him in half and then he began regening.
> 
> Arthur still scales because he legit cut two of them in half, and could send Mel and Zel flying, two people which we know would not just let Arthur hit them like that. Remember this was a legit mid tier before gaining his power up, and still doesn't have his strength or magic unlocked. It's essentially UI light.
> 
> Also ignoring that Arthur is facing four top tiers.



> Attack did nothing

> Let him hit them

"Nah none of that's legit he can totally hurt them"



You're trying to scale him to a group of people who are so much more powerful than him that his sword of empowerment shits itself.

And if he doesn't have his power and magic unlocked, _then he didn't get stronger._ You're suggesting that we scale him higher than he deserves because he has more potential? That's not how this works.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 27, 2018)

So they just nerfed their durability into the dirt or some shit? Nah dude, Arthur is island level


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## Mythoclast (Feb 27, 2018)

CrossTheHorizon said:


> Chapters out now.
> 
> First off, the demons took no damage from the attacks.


Wut? 

*Spoiler*: __ 









Regen is a common thing within the series.


> Second, they say they let him hit them to see what was up with the sword.


That only applies to Cusack and Chandler.
Assault mode Mel and Zeldris are both "no-nonsense" characters.They aren't going to break character for no apparent reason.On top of that,they both bullrushed him after figuring out what Excalibur does and Arthur still reacted to,and sent them flying.



> There was no overwhelming taking place, the sword basically pissed itself out of fear and gave up without a fight
> 
> *Spoiler*: __


He's just trash talking.
These are the reasons why Arthur is suddenly struggling to wield it.

*Spoiler*: __ 











> So yeah, Arthur doesn't scale to shit.


Well,if we blatantly ignore everything that transpired in the previous chapter,then sure

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 2


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## Zern227 (Feb 27, 2018)

Just to point things out people lowering their durability isn't some magical thing. Even Vegeta can lower his guard down so Krillen can almost kill him. If whatever energy they use improves their durability there shouldn't be a reason they can't lower their durability.


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## Masterblack06 (Feb 27, 2018)

So its like 
Arthur w/o excalibur < Zeldris, Mel, Chandler and Cusak (Holding Back)
Arthur w/ excalibur <= Zeldris, Mel Chandler and Cusak (Holding Back)


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## Dr. White (Feb 27, 2018)

Zern227 said:


> Just to point things out people lowering their durability isn't some magical thing. Even Vegeta can lower his guard down so Krillen can almost kill him. If whatever energy they use improves their durability there shouldn't be a reason they can't lower their durability.


except they don't use Ki so that's a moot point. They have natural demon strength.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## shade0180 (Feb 27, 2018)

Zern227 said:


> Just to point things out people lowering their durability isn't some magical thing. Even Vegeta can lower his guard down so Krillen can almost kill him. If whatever energy they use improves their durability there shouldn't be a reason they can't lower their durability.



Except we don't buy that shit even in DB.

And we have proven this countless times to be bullshit.

there's a reason why split durability has never been accepted in the OBD community. And you are basically trying to claim we are using it.


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## Mythoclast (Feb 27, 2018)

Masterblack06 said:


> So its like
> Arthur w/o excalibur < Zeldris, Mel, Chandler and Cusak (Holding Back)
> Arthur w/ excalibur <= Zeldris, Mel Chandler and Cusak (Holding Back)


He currently doesn't have any means of putting them down.And Cusack,Chandler and Zeldris are all in their base forms.
However,Arthur's speed with Excalibur is arguably>their's.


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## shade0180 (Feb 27, 2018)

Dr. White said:


> except they don't use Ki so that's a moot point. They have natural demon strength.



Except DB also don't use ki for durability, they have their own durability, via physical strengthening through training.

 Split durability remains a bullshit downplayers try to use which had never fly.


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## Dr. White (Feb 27, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> Except DB also don't use ki for durability, they have their own durability, via physical strengthening through training.
> 
> Split durability remains a bullshit downplayers try to use which had never fly.


They have their own durability and ki adds to that. Hence why goku could do shit like block trunks sword strikes with his finger with the aura power up.

My point was the only way his argument flies is with people who can up their dura like an hxh character taking down their ken.

Relax your tits


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## Zern227 (Feb 27, 2018)

It was hardly an argument I was just making a point. People intentionally lowering their durability isn't as ludicrous as you think.


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## Sablés (Feb 27, 2018)

Durability getting lowered by cheap shots or X character intentionally/unintentionally letting their guard down is a common trope even if it makes no sense in practice.

Someone brought up DB but it literally happened to Jiren 2 weeks ago.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 27, 2018)

Sablés said:


> Durability getting lowered by cheap shots or X character intentionally/unintentionally letting their guard down is a common trope even if it makes no sense in practice.
> 
> Someone brought up DB but it literally happened to Jiren 2 weeks ago.


sunrise Escanor barely got a scratch from CO Galan who is easily island level. Cusack is at least at that level


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## Sablés (Feb 27, 2018)

I have no idea what any of that means. I was stating a point independent of the match


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 28, 2018)

I meant to qoute the post above yours oops


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## Masterblack06 (Feb 28, 2018)

I can imagine alot of people in this thread just being like


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## Sherlōck (Feb 28, 2018)

@Dr. White  I don't have time to waste on your bullshit so that your favorite series can have a chance against OP. Basically your whole argument boils down to these points,

Akainu doesn't have continental durability cause,

John giant a vice admiral was knocked down by WB's attack.
Jinbe survived an attack aimed at Luffy which injured him & the second one made a hole in his body.
Blackbeard took hit from half-headed WB & survived. You even tried to compare it with attack from blood lusted mode WB who just saw Akainu kill Ace in front of him.
Akainu/Mihawk can't have continental level DC cause,

Crocodile stopped a slash aimed at Luffy.
Daz Bones stopped a slash aimed at Luffy (added it cause fun)
Jinbe was only injured from Akainu's first attack aimed at Luffy.
You tried to shift the goalpost,

When presented with statement from credible sources that Yonko fought against Whitebeard by saying they fought the crew. Not Whitebeard.
You also claimed falsely.

Akainu was knocked out. You need to look up the dictionary what knock out means & re-read the chapter.


In reality we do know Admirals can't be injured by 80 Gt level attacks as Garp wasn't & even overpowered it. And they can take continent level attacks, get injured & get up like nothing happened.

Lets for fun assume it takes two continent level attacks to knock out a OP top tier (we know it doesn't). To cumulate that level of damage a 100 GT DC character will have to hit a OP top tier approximately 10000 times.

Can a island level character decapitate someone like that? No. Someone who can take continent level DC to the head & get back up isn't getting decapitated by an island level attack.

Durability isn't the strongest attack you can take without injury it's the strongest attack you can take without being out of commission. The perfect case for endurance is Jinbe managing to stay conscious with a hole in his chest or WB being able to hold on a bit more after losing half his head. Someone somewhere started to equate first one with endurance which is categorically false.

The whole debate you tried to deter from the fact Admirals can take continental attacks by bringing up low end feats to justify your position. It's pathetic. You have been here long enough to know that it doesn't work that way. 

Maybe I should be glad you don't think Krillin=Goku cause he fought against SSB Goku and hold out a bit.

I am done here.

P.S  The same logic applies for all verse.


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## Steven (Feb 28, 2018)

Damage Controll over 9000


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## B Rabbit (Feb 28, 2018)

@Sherlock is winning this argument and bad.

The whole argument that other attacks didn't do as much damage applies for all fictions. Its why Earth wasn't destroyed a millions times in Dragon Ball. Or why Bleach characters don't go around destroying cities with casual swings. 

The Author shows a couple big feats here and there. Than gives you evidence that characters on a similar can do the same thing.

Imagine if Oda took his time can had every Admiral/Yonkou/Mihawk/Legend destroy a continent? It would be redundant because we already saw Blackbeard and Whitebeard bot only pull of similar feats. But stalemate and be put on a pedestal on a similar level.

Thats literally how battle shounen are written. NNT has similar examples.


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## B Rabbit (Feb 28, 2018)

I'm not even going to read it simply because I read it all in the previous post. Not only did Marco hint at Whitebears not being as strong as he was. Akainu knew it, Crocodile himself knew it, and so did Whitebeard himself. Akainu matched blows with him. Shanks thought he could tango with him. Kizaru was mocking him. Hell Sengoku and Garp originally didn't think they were needed. Plus it was stated numerous times that the Yonkou fought over territory numerous times.


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## Dr. White (Mar 1, 2018)

B Rabbit said:


> I'm not even going to read it simply because I read it all in the previous post.


So basically "I'm not gonna be objective and respond to ypur points, I'm just gonna state my opinion as fact and dip." Concession accepted.



> Not only did Marco hint at Whitebears not being as strong as he was.


Cause he wasn't as strong which I've already stated multiple times. That is a comparison of WB vs his former self though and irrelevant to people who've never fought primebeard.



> Akainu matched blows with him.


You mean Akainu plotted to have him stabbed in the chest and vastly weakened by his sickness affecting his stamina to walk up and fight him? In which WB put him out commission for a short time with his fist? Ok.


> Shanks thought he could tango with him.


Ok? How does thinking something prove anything? If anything Shanks has one of the better arguments being able to clash with WB and split the heavens, but that still isn't enough to solidly put him on par with WB's cont output.



> Kizaru was mocking him. Hell Sengoku and Garp originally didn't think they were needed.


This is all completely irrelevant.


> Plus it was stated numerous times that the Yonkou fought over territory numerous times.


This is highly ambiguous and we have no idea on the explicits of the fight


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## TheOnlyOne1 (Mar 6, 2018)

It's funny when everyone's argument here for or against Mihawk is fallacious and dubious. Lol except the one person that pointed out the power structures are not some random 5+4+7 Lol. That's the only credible statement in this entire discussion. The 3 powers in the OP world isn't individually. It's organization based. With the Marines being the strongest because they are a single organization. Then the Yonkou because they are 4 separate organizations. They have massive influence, territory and political power along with a powerful army and some very powerful quality characters like their top commanders. And then the Schichibukai which are an extension of the World Governments power. They are all over the place. They are symbolic. But they do enforce influence and equilibrium for the World Government.

If however, two Yonkous allied themselves they would throw the balance off. That's why everyone was shitting themselves when Shanks and Whitebeard met up.


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