# Yamato vs Zoro



## oiety (Jul 5, 2020)

It's a mirror match. We saw what happened when Prime Oden stepped to Young Kaido (that is to say, a hostage situation), so how do you think it goes down here?
Fight is in Wano, Zoro has Enma.
Get your headcanon out.


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Jul 5, 2020)

Yamato high-very high diff

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## xmysticgohanx (Jul 5, 2020)

Zoro extreme diff

Luffy and Zoro will be the biggest players in the Kaido battle. Luffy will finish the job while everyone is down and Zoro will do the most damage from a single attack

Luffy > Zoro > Yamato > Kid > Law

extreme diff between all of the Kaido combatants

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Corax (Jul 6, 2020)

I think Zoro will play bigger role in this arc as it is "his"arc. Though we have seen Sanji's arc...But anyway. As for feats Zoro also can hold G3 Luffy without problems. End of Wano Zoro should high-extreme diff Yamato.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Vivo Diez (Jul 6, 2020)

Corax said:


> I think Zoro will play bigger role in this arc as it is "his"arc. Though we have seen Sanji's arc...But anyway. *As for feats Zoro also can hold G3 Luffy without problems*. End of Wano Zoro should high-extreme diff Yamato.


What feats would indicate that?

Reactions: Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Beast (Jul 6, 2020)

Luffy>~ kidd>~ Yamato> law>~ zoro

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 2 | Lewd 1 | Tier Specialist 6


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## Mercurial (Jul 6, 2020)

Vivo Diez said:


> What feats would indicate that?


LOL read the manga instead of Three Piece. Just go and see and compare Rufy's Gear 3 managing to only destroy Pica's golem's head, while Zoro, without Asura, fucking bisected it in half.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 2


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## Beast (Jul 6, 2020)

Raikiri19 said:


> LOL read the manga instead of Three Piece. Just go and see and compare Rufy's Gear 3 managing to only destroy Pica's golem's head, while Zoro, without Asura, fucking bisected it in half.


Zoro has to use multiple spam attacks, Luffy would destroy pics with multiple G3 hits as well lol.

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Steven (Jul 6, 2020)

Raikiri19 said:


> LOL read the manga instead of Three Piece. Just go and see and compare Rufy's Gear 3 managing to only destroy Pica's golem's head, while Zoro, without Asura, fucking bisected it in half.


Zorro cant even defeat Base Ruffy with his shity feats

Base Ruffy would oneshot Pica as well.He can also tank a bunch of Kata´s attacks in base,yet Zorro would be a oneshot for the likes of Kata


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## Mercurial (Jul 6, 2020)

Sure pal. Whatever makes you sleep at night

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 2


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## Steven (Jul 6, 2020)




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## Vivo Diez (Jul 6, 2020)

Raikiri19 said:


> LOL read the manga instead of Three Piece. Just go and see and compare Rufy's Gear 3 managing to only destroy Pica's golem's head, while Zoro, without Asura, fucking bisected it in half.


Oh boy.

The combined feat of Chinjao and Elizabello is about as impressive as Zoro's feat, since they managed to stop and destroy Pica's whole arm as it was swinging towards them, instead of Zoro's attack which was against Pica's body. It's the difference of meeting someone punch for punch, instead of swinging a punch towards their body as they're swinging a punch against someone else.

And ye, as others mentioned, Luffy's got G3 feats against Kata's attacks which would one-shot Golem Pica.

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1


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## Corax (Jul 6, 2020)

Vivo Diez said:


> Oh boy.
> 
> The combined feat of Chinjao and Elizabello is about as impressive as Zoro's feat, since they managed to stop and destroy Pica's whole arm as it was swinging towards them, instead of Zoro's attack which was against Pica's body. It's the difference of meeting someone punch for punch, instead of swinging a punch towards their body as they're swinging a punch against someone else.
> 
> And ye, as others mentioned, Luffy's got G3 feats against Kata's attacks which would one-shot Golem Pica.


Luffy used double Grizzly Magnum to destroy around 1/3 or so of Pica's head. I see no reason why Zoro can't easily block single Elephant Gun (much inferior attack) if his muscles are strong enough to produce a slash that can cut it into pieces. Zoro easily replicated their combined feat by his 1080 pound canon (he also destroyed Pica's arm in the same chapter). Though later Elizabello completely destroyed Pica's torso alone,not just his hand. But his king's punch attack is hyped as a yonko slayer attack (either is it true or not is up to author).

Reactions: Like 1


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## Luis209 (Jul 7, 2020)

With Enma, Zoro beats her with low-mid difficulty.

 I believe he'll beat King with extreme difficulty, so with what we've known so far in relation to Yamato, I guess that seems about right. In my opinion, Yamato is inferior to Calamities.

People who say "Zoro is having trouble with gifters" have to keep in mind that Zoro is not wearing the bandana, nor is he using three swords and Enma, so he's far from being serious.


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## Dellinger (Jul 8, 2020)

Wow another wankfest for Zoro

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


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## Mercurial (Jul 8, 2020)

Wow another Zoro hater

Reactions: Agree 5


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## Tenma (Jul 8, 2020)

Yamato mid diffs pre-Enma Zoro who is more or less Vet level

Current Zoro is effectively a featless, unknown entity. His only showings are under great restriction but also unremarkable atm, pretty much depends on how/if he'll beat King in which case this is more of a 'YC1 vs Yamato' thread.

If he does solo King without any further powerups he should be stronger than Yamato, but gauging his strength based on that makes about as much sense as scaling Luffy to Kaido and saying he can oneshot King now.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Steven (Jul 8, 2020)

Zoro has good Dura


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## Draco Bolton (Jul 8, 2020)

Zoro high diff.

IMO current Zoro (before his "Wano big fights") with Enma is YC2. And for now I rate Yamato as a YC3.

btw Yamato is a female character, instead of rejoicing, we'll have to worry. Oda hates female characters and belittling them is one of his favorite pastimes (as a typical Japanese author).

Reactions: Like 1


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## convict (Jul 8, 2020)

Raikiri19 said:


> LOL read the manga instead of Three Piece. Just go and see and compare Rufy's Gear 3 managing to only destroy Pica's golem's head, while Zoro, without Asura, fucking bisected it in half.


That was also Grizzly Magnum, not a mere elephant gun. Elephant Gatling would take it out though.


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## Dellinger (Jul 8, 2020)

Draco Bolton said:


> Zoro high diff.
> 
> IMO current Zoro (before his "Wano big fights") with Enma is YC2. And for now I rate Yamato as a YC3.
> 
> btw Yamato is a female character, instead of rejoicing, we'll have to worry. Oda hates female characters and belittling them is one of his favorite pastimes (as a typical Japanese author).



How is Zoro YC2 ? What feats warrant such statement ? He again has looked unimpressive until now in the raid. 

Yamato was cockblocking gear stacking Luffy and knocked out Ulti with a single attack. Zoro has nothing on that.

Reactions: Like 4 | Tier Specialist 6 | Dislike 1


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## Mercurial (Jul 8, 2020)

Sure Fujitora would clash a Veteran and praise that Veteran after the clash.

Sure Kinemon and Kanjuro who witnessed Oden would be in awe from a Veteran level feat.

Sure a Veteran level who is nerfed would oneshot a nerfed Killer.

Sure a Veteran could trash away Hawkins' moves as if they were nothing.

Sure a Veteran could game Enma.

Sure a Veteran, while holding back a lot (no Asura) can show greater power than Rufy's CoA G3.

Sure a crew which is clearly a mirroring of Roger's with Rayleigh and then the others will have its first mate on a Veteran level when the captain is YC3 and later YC1.

Come on. Read One Piece not Four Pieces

Reactions: Like 6 | Winner 3


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## Tenma (Jul 8, 2020)

Raikiri19 said:


> Sure Fujitora would clash a Veteran and praise that Veteran after the clash.
> 
> Sure Kinemon and Kanjuro who witnessed Oden would be in awe from a Veteran level feat.
> 
> ...



I'm gonna assume this is a response to my post since I said _pre-Enm_a Zoro was Vet level

Dressrossa Base/G2 Luffy is Vet level and had a similar performance and praise from Fujitora

honestly yeah, Kinemon is fodder to WG/Vet level fighters. You surely aren't suggesting DR Zoro compares to Oden.

With a direct hit I don't see why they couldn't depending on their skillset. Even Vergo oneshotted Smoker with Onitake.

Perospero easily neutralized Big Father and Page-One blew away Sanji in a head-on clash, don't see why Hawkins is different.

Now that he's gained Enma and refined his haki in the process of mastering it he's obviously become stronger, but it'a obvious Oda's given him upgrades to battle commanders. However, post-Enma Zoro remains an unknown quantity for now.


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## oiety (Jul 8, 2020)

Raikiri19 said:


> Come on. Read One Piece not Four Pieces



bro please get a new line

though I see you've upgraded it from two piece to three piece to four piece, if you keep on you'll have a whole outfit


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## OG sama (Jul 8, 2020)

People seriously expect Yamato to be stronger than Zoro?

Come on man Zoro wins, Yamato is YC4 imo so before Enma they would have been comparable but now??? Zoro should be presented much above especially if he’s going to beat King.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Mercurial (Jul 8, 2020)

oiety said:


> bro please get a new line
> 
> though I see you've upgraded it from two piece to three piece to four piece, if you keep on you'll have a whole outfit


That's because the idiocy I read is increasing. So I thought people were reading Two Piece at the start... but if it goes like this it will be A Hundred Piece in no time.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 3 | Winner 1


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## Steven (Jul 8, 2020)

Raikiri19 said:


> Sure Fujitora would clash a Veteran and praise that Veteran after the clash.
> 
> Sure Kinemon and Kanjuro who witnessed Oden would be in awe from a Veteran level feat.
> 
> ...


Zorros best feat is beating Pica

Pica is fodder to the likes of YC´s

Yamato should at least ~Jack.If we have the same situation ala Katakuri,she is FM/+ Level for being Kaido´s daughter


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## Mercurial (Jul 8, 2020)

Tenma said:


> I'm gonna assume this is a response to my post since I said _pre-Enm_a Zoro was Vet level
> 
> Dressrossa Base/G2 Luffy is Vet level and had a similar performance and praise from Fujitora
> 
> ...


It is.

Pal you  are just forgetting that you are ranking pre Enma Zoro as a Veteran without taking in account his... strongest move. Which he did not use because be did not need. Asura is a gargantuan power up, it made Zoro jump from being ~ Kaku to destroying the same Kaku in a couple of seconds and with the utmost ease. So I think it easily goes that, with Asura, pre Enma Zoro is YC3 level.

Also people forget one thing. When he cut the mountain sized golem in half, he used Ichidan Daisen Sanzensekai, the new improved version of the move plus added CoA. Then Pica said that cutting through himself is a completely different level task due to his full body haki (Vergo style). So it is clearly implied that Pica full body haki > Pica mountain sized golem. By Pica's own words.

And yet, Zoro easily one shotted Pica and his full body haki with simple Sanzensekai, the old pre skip move just with added CoA. That much says how fucking stronger was Zoro compared to Pica. And he was still holding back due to not using Asura.

Pica mountain golem < Pica full body haki << Zoro Sanzensekai << Zoro Ichidan Daisen Sanzensekai << Zoro Asura

Pre Enma Zoro cannot be a Veteran. That's ridicolous. Zoro would trash people like Oven, Daifuku, Page One etc who are Veteran level. He destroyed someone comparable to Vergo with the utmost ease and holding back soooo much, there was no contest at all. He was tiers above.




@convict
@Corax 
@xmysticgohanx
@Furinji Saiga
@Light D Lamperouge
@TheWiggian

Reactions: Like 6


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## Mercurial (Jul 8, 2020)

Acno said:


> Zorros best feat is beating Pica
> 
> Pica is fodder to the likes of YC´s
> 
> Yamato should at least ~Jack.If we have the same situation ala Katakuri,she is FM/+ Level for being Kaido´s daughter


He did not beat Pica. He trashed Pica completely, while holding back his strongest move. He was not just a bit stronger than Pica, he was immensely, massively stronger. Tiers and tiers above. It wasn't even a fight.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Hero Link (Jul 8, 2020)

We need to see Yamato's full potential at first. 

There are 3 possibilities:
1.) Either she is on par with the Calamities
2.) She is above the Calamities (hence stronger than even King)
3.) She is stronger than the strongest flying six but weaker than Jack. 

If it's the 3rd possibility, I can see Zoro definitely winning against Yamato.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Steven (Jul 8, 2020)

Raikiri19 said:


> He did not beat Pica. He trashed Pica completely, while holding back his strongest move. He was not just a bit stronger than Pica, he was immensely, massively stronger. Tiers and tiers above. It wasn't even a fight.


ISDS is his ultimate move and he needed it against Pica.

I dont call that casual or "GG EZ Noob"

Zorro was stronger than Pica,yes,by a good margin but not as big as Kaido to Ruffy


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## Mercurial (Jul 8, 2020)

Acno said:


> ISDS is his ultimate move and he needed it against Pica.
> 
> I dont call that casual or "GG EZ Noob"
> 
> Zorro was stronger than Pica,yes,by a good margin but not as big as Kaido to Ruffy


By Pica's own words cutting himself with his fullbody haki would have been difficult than cutting his mountain sized golem. And yet Zoro cut the golem with Ichidan Daisen Sanzensekai, while he cut through Pica's full body haki (very similar to Vergo's) with simple Sanzensekai.

So Pica golem < Pica full body CoA < Sanzensekai < Ichidan D Sanzensekai. And that shit comes below Asura, as Santoryu moves are logically < Asura Kyutoryu moves. So, again, Zoro destroyed Pica without a single wound, with moves far beyond need (as Pica was not barely defeated, but utterly overwhelmed), and still had his best moves in reserve.

You don't and you are wrong, you should.

There was far greater difference between Zoro and Pica than between Kaido and Rufy. At least Rufy could put a little fight when Kaido was playing around being drunk and whatnot. While Pica was never even dreaming to touch Zoro, let alone damage him.


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## xmysticgohanx (Jul 8, 2020)

I wish Wano was over already so we can look at all the swag feats


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## Kroczilla (Jul 8, 2020)

Y'all cant just wait till wano is over can you?

That said,


Raikiri19 said:


> There was far greater difference between Zoro and Pica than between Kaido and Rufy.



I think you are getting a bit carried away with the zoro wank buddy.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Beast (Jul 9, 2020)

Raikiri19 said:


> There was far greater difference between Zoro and Pica than between Kaido and Rufy. At least Rufy could put a little fight when Kaido was playing around being drunk and whatnot. While Pica was never even dreaming to touch Zoro, let alone damage him.


youve lost your damn mind bruh.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mercurial (Jul 9, 2020)

So Kaido pays around, receives no wound at all from Rufy and proceeds to casually one shot him with a move that we don't know if it is one of his strongest moves or even the strongest one.

While Zoro plays around, receives no wound at all from Pica and proceeds to casually one shot him with a move that we absolutely know that is far from his strongest one which is Asura. Pica also states that his full body haki is >> the golem, and yet Zoro cuts through his full body haki with a weaker version of the move than the one he used to cut through the golem.

Not to mention that a CoA training will make Rufy capable to at the very least stand against Kaido and give him a decent fight, while it seems clear that no training will let Pica stand as a serious opponent for Zoro.

And yet I'm out of my mind if I say that the gap between Zoro and Pica is bigger than the one between Kaido and Rufy.

Good.


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## Duhul10 (Jul 9, 2020)

Why is Pica mentioned so much on this thread given the fact that he is anything but impressive by current OP standards. Size only matters if it's in your pants.


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## Beast (Jul 9, 2020)

Raikiri19 said:


> So Kaido pays around, receives no wound at all from Rufy and proceeds to casually one shot him with a move that we don't know if it is one of his strongest moves or even the strongest one.
> 
> While Zoro plays around, receives no wound at all from Pica and proceeds to casually one shot him with a move that we absolutely know that is far from his strongest one which is Asura. Pica also states that his full body haki is >> the golem, and yet *Zoro* *cuts through his full body haki with a weaker version of the move than the one he used to cut through the golem.*
> 
> ...


Zoro needed help against Pica.


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## Mercurial (Jul 9, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Zoro needed help against Pica.


Stopped reading here

"Doesn't get a single wound and casually oneshots with a move far from his best move"

"B-but he NEEDED helppp" 



Salt is strong
Not worth an answer

Reactions: Like 3 | Winner 1


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## Beast (Jul 9, 2020)

Raikiri19 said:


> Stopped reading here
> 
> "Doesn't get a single wound and casually oneshots with a move far from his best move"
> 
> ...


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## Kroczilla (Jul 9, 2020)

Lol @Raikiri19 attempt to compare zoro vs pica with luffy vs kaido.

Kaido literally shat all over everything luffy had to offer and THEN proceeded to one shot him. 

Pica by contrast couldnt even hurt anyone of consequence in the entirety of dressrosa (including fodders) and was basically a giant, unwieldly punching bag for zoro, luffy, chinjao, elizabello etc. and only lasted so long due to his ability to keep moving within his stone body and avoid direct hits. Zoro "unhurt" against pica is a feat that just about every named character has tbh.

Also without Orlumbus, zoro would have had a much harder time stopping pica.


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## Mercurial (Jul 9, 2020)

Kroczilla said:


> Lol @Raikiri19 attempt to compare zoro vs pica with luffy vs kaido.
> 
> Kaido literally shat all over everything luffy had to offer and THEN proceeded to one shot him.
> 
> ...


Pal. I'll try one last time.

Pica stated that cutting the mountain sized golem is nothing compared to cutting through his full body haki.

Hence Pica full body haki > Pica golem.

And yet Zoro easily cut through full body haki Pica with a move (Sanzensekai) weaker than the one he used to cut golem Pica (Ichidan Daisen Sanzensekai).

That much should tell how gargantuan was the gap between Zoro and Pica. Because he could stomp Pica in his strongest state, even with a casual move. And in the meantime, Zoro was holding back his strongest moves with Asura, so we need to remember that he is far stronger than he showed, as Asura is a power up that as enough to move him from more or less on par with Kaku to destroy the same Kaku in a couple of seconds.

Golem Pica < Full body Haki Pica < Sanzensekai Zoro < Ichidan Daisen Sanzensekai Zoro < Asura Zoro

That means Pica <<< Zoro

So there is not a slight gap between Zoro and Pica, there are tiers, tiers and tiers between Zoro and Pica.

That's not my opinion. That's just evidence based on facts from the manga: Pica's statement about himself and the results of the clash between Pica and Zoro, and Zoro holding back Asura on top of the moves that he used. If you tell that some of the facts is not a fact... then we are reading different mangas, or someone is blind, or biased against a certain swordsman with green hair.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Kroczilla (Jul 9, 2020)

Raikiri19 said:


> Pal. I'll try one last time.
> 
> Pica stated that cutting the mountain sized golem is nothing compared to cutting through his full body haki.
> 
> ...




Not once in my post did i say or even imply that zoro was not significantly above Pica. Rather i i pointed out exactly why the difference btwn them in no way compared to that of Luffy and Kaido.

Pica was literally a giant punching bag for just about every named character he encountered all through the arc. Yes, zoro put him down with relative ease, but can you with a straight face tell me that zoro would nosell hits from Pica the same way kaido dusted g4 luffy's spam attacks?

Seriously, you are overdoing it with your zorowank. Its why everyone else seems to you like they are downplaying your green haired overlord.


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Jul 9, 2020)

This shit is so off topic. All we need to know is how she compares to Luffy. Don’t tell me that because feats zoro is nowhere close to Luffy. I promise you if eichiro oda the creator of one piece drew Luffy versus zoro he would have it be pretty close with Luffy(oops didn’t mean zoro at first) coming out on top. Hell I don’t even buy he’s gonna end things with sanji being significantly weaker and his portrayal post skip has been one of the worst things about the series.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Muah (Jul 10, 2020)

We don't know anything about Yamatos true strenght but we do know 3 years ago or more she fought with Ace. Who Zoro would probably still have trouble with or lose to. She one hit koed. Page one and ulti but I could see Zoro doing that if he snuck em. But even then I dont see Zoro taking them both so easily. Fact is Sanji had a lil trouble against page one.

Everything we have says Yamato is stronger. Plus she might have COC.


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## Akira1993 (Jul 10, 2020)

Zoro should take this although with extreme difficulty.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Jul 11, 2020)

If Yamato got CoC it’s a wrap.


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## Akira1993 (Jul 11, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> If Yamato got CoC it’s a wrap.


Zoro should still win IMO


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## Beast (Jul 11, 2020)

Akira1993 said:


> Zoro should still win IMO


Why’s that?


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## Akira1993 (Jul 11, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Why’s that?


Personal opinion, I admit that I can't prove it.


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Jul 11, 2020)

Akira1993 said:


> Personal opinion, I admit that I can't prove it.


But you have to have some reason right? Like Yamato is this strong and and zoro is that strong?


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## ice demon slayer (Jul 11, 2020)

High diff battle in bed

Reactions: Like 1


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## Extravlad (Jul 11, 2020)

Zoro gives her the Monet treatment

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## B Rabbit (Jul 11, 2020)

Pica was only impressive really because of the nature of his DF and his size. Law and Luffy were styling all over the seats and treating them like fodder for the most part. Zoro effectively decided to use Sanki on a full body armament Pica. I doubt Zoro pre Enma would be blocking a much strong base Wano Luffy like Yamato was. Post Enma? Hard to say because neither of the contestants were going all out. I will admit that Zoro's technique is stronger than G3. So by Enma standards it easily got stronger,  but Yamato clearly has more up his sleeve.


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## maupp (Dec 7, 2020)

Bumped


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## Akira1993 (Dec 7, 2020)

Still Zoro high dif at best


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## Tenma (Dec 7, 2020)

Same as before- Yamato Baguas the shit out of pre-Enma Zoro, who knows with current Zoro.


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## ho11ow (Dec 7, 2020)

Zoro would beat her so hard that Yamato got PTSD from Kaido beating her then she start call Zoro daddy

Reactions: Like 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## muchentuchen (Dec 7, 2020)

And Zoro pounded the witch, an they lived long and happily ever after with lot's of little Zoros to colonize Wano. To be continued...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Nox (Dec 7, 2020)

Flying Six are tasked with capturing Yamato to secure an audience against Calamities. As per the group Drake's the likeliest to gain promotion. This means (a) he can physically outmatch Yamato (b) potentially unseat a Calamity. Realistically this means he's in the YC3 placement. The same Drake was in awe at the ease in which Zoro manhandled Apoo. This was Zoro utilizing Itoryuu and an unnamed attack. Sure, Yamato has another form but Zoro's Enma has sliced down her father. They're not the same. Zoro wins. That said, its nothing short of High Diff.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gotenks92 (Dec 8, 2020)

Yamato = current Zoro > pre enma Zoro

Reactions: Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 2 | Dislike 1


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## Quipchaque (Dec 8, 2020)

Acno said:


> Zorros best feat is beating Pica
> 
> Pica is fodder to the likes of YC´s
> 
> Yamato should at least ~Jack.If we have the same situation ala Katakuri,she is FM/+ Level for being Kaido´s daughter



Correction. Zoro's best feat is fodderizing Pica. That alone implied Zoro is way above a Veteran ever since the timeskip. Heck even haters were crying after these feats happened and went all "why is Zoro this strong?!?!". that alone should tell you that you are ignorant regarding Zoro. It is not about who he beat. It is about how he beat them.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1 | Optimistic 1


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## JustSumGuy (Dec 8, 2020)

If Yamato is to join the crew she won’t be stronger than either Zoro or Sanji.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Dunno (Dec 8, 2020)

Zoro takes this comfortably, and he would have taken it just as comfortably before he got Enma.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Tier Specialist 1 | Dislike 1


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## Pirao (May 31, 2021)



Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3 | Funny 3 | Friendly 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## trance (May 31, 2021)

poor yamato


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## Karma (May 31, 2021)

Beast said:


> If Yamato got CoC it’s a wrap.


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## Van Basten (May 31, 2021)

Zoro mid diff.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## TheWiggian (May 31, 2021)

This wine aged so good. Mihawk would love the present from his student.

Anyway Zoro low diffs and that's generous towards Yamato right now.

Normally it should be the Monet treatment but as i said iam generous because Yamato might shows us a bit more than taking down fodder.

Reactions: Winner 5


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## Brian (May 31, 2021)

Zoro destroys the fake Oden

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## Dunno (May 31, 2021)

As per usual, the undiluted delusion of the Zoro haters is dislayed for all to see. Has any Zoro thread ever aged well for you guys?

Reactions: Like 5 | Agree 1 | Funny 3 | Winner 1


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## LaniDani (May 31, 2021)

Zoro high diff.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## TheWiggian (May 31, 2021)

Dunno said:


> As per usual, the undiluted delusion of the Zoro haters is dislayed for all to see. Has any Zoro thread ever aged well for you guys?



It's too easy at this point. I don't even feel happy anymore...

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## Great Potato (May 31, 2021)

Yamato has nothing on Zoro


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## xmysticgohanx (May 31, 2021)

Yamato will be strong but not Zoro strong


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## Canute87 (May 31, 2021)




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## convict (Jun 1, 2021)

“Hey guys Zoro is so damn overrated here”



With that said I still peg her as commander level. She puts up a fight but loses to his bigger guns


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## ShadoLord (Jun 1, 2021)




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## Perrin (Jun 1, 2021)

I mean poor zoro, he sorta beats ryuma when its his corpse with someone elses ‘soul’. Then he sorta beats Oden when its a young girl identifying as him.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Furinji Saiga (Jun 1, 2021)

Dunno said:


> As per usual, the undiluted delusion of the Zoro haters is dislayed for all to see. Has any Zoro thread ever aged well for you guys?


They just ignore it from the looks of it lol. 

Look at all the other threads like "Zoro kings bet thread" "Zoro scarring Kaido"

They spam nonsense, get proven wrong and just turn away.  

Anyways, by every metric of power/hype/showcase/feats Zoro destroys Yamato.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 2


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## MYJC (Jun 1, 2021)

Yamato lacks feats, but based on Zoro's rooftop feats he probably wins mid diff at most.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Pirao (Jun 5, 2021)

Sorry guys but the OL experts have decided that Yamato will give mid diff to Kaido, looks like she's stronger than Zoro again.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## TrolonoaZoro (Jun 5, 2021)

Can't wait for the Race to One Piece arc in which every other ally of the Blackbeard pirate gets presume to be stronger than Zoro because they're shown to be somewhat competent.
"can zoro beat pegleg rainbow beard?"

Reactions: Funny 6 | Winner 1


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## Perrin (Jun 5, 2021)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> "can zoro beat pegleg rainbow beard?"


Died

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Pirao (Jun 5, 2021)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> Can't wait for the Race to One Piece arc in which every other ally of the Blackbeard pirate gets presume to be stronger than Zoro because they're shown to be somewhat competent.
> "can zoro beat pegleg rainbow beard?"


LMAO. You know it.


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## Yumi Zoro (Jun 6, 2021)

oiety said:


> bro please get a new line
> 
> though I see you've upgraded it from two piece to three piece to four piece, if you keep on you'll have a whole outfit


Four piece is worst than three piece which is worst than two piece.


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## Yumi Zoro (Jun 6, 2021)

I love Yamato but Zoro take it again.


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## oiety (Jun 6, 2021)

Why was this thread bumped? The answer has become plain and conclusive.


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## Eustathios (Jun 6, 2021)

A single slash from Zoro against Kaido was more reminiscent of Oden than whatever Yamato has been doing her whole life trying to imitate him.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Perrin (Jun 6, 2021)

Its weird, she’ll probably have better showings against Kaido because he will be hindered due to the love he has of his child, then eventually overcome this and take her out in a way which triggers Luffy leading to the final showdown with rubberman, the handicaps will probably make it hard to judge who was stronger.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Firo (Jun 6, 2021)

If she turns out to be a crewmember I’d say Zoro if not Yamato.  But, we’ll see


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## Mihawk (Jun 6, 2021)

Her performance will make her look stronger than Luffy, but weaker than Zoro

Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 1 | Winner 2


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## killfox (Jun 6, 2021)

If she can bring Kaido to mid diff by herself then she wins.


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## Perrin (Jun 6, 2021)

killfox said:


> If she can bring Kaido to mid diff by herself then she wins.


But if he’s struggling with his emotions will it be anymore legitimate than Luffy folding garp at MF?

Reactions: Like 1


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## killfox (Jun 6, 2021)

Perrin said:


> But if he’s struggling with his emotions will it be anymore legitimate than Luffy folding garp at MF?


And if he doesn’t struggle? He seems kinda heartless. Also she’s said how he beat her multiple times in the past.


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## Perrin (Jun 6, 2021)

killfox said:


> And if he doesn’t struggle? He seems kinda heartless. Also she’s said how he beat her multiple times in the past.


Heartless?! He’s the most depressed sorrowful character in the series


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## killfox (Jun 6, 2021)

Perrin said:


> Heartless?! He’s the most depressed sorrowful character in the series


When it comes to fighting he’s heartless.


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## Perrin (Jun 6, 2021)

killfox said:


> When it comes to fighting he’s heartless.


What do you mean by heartless? He complements his opponents, he stands there chuckling allowing free hits, he comments on how much fun he’s having, he cries when its all over quicker than it should be and has epic parties when someone gives him a good fight for three days. Man is nothing but heart.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## killfox (Jun 6, 2021)

Perrin said:


> What do you mean by heartless? He complements his opponents, he stands there chuckling allowing free hits, he comments on how much fun he’s having, he cries when its all over quicker than it should be and has epic parties when someone gives him a good fight for three days. Man is nothing but heart.


In a few simple words. I doubt he’ll hesitate to knock Yamato the fuck out


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## Tenma (Jun 9, 2021)

I sense a disturbance in the force.


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## convict (Jun 13, 2021)

Tenma said:


> I sense a disturbance in the force.



Surprised people haven't gone apeshit on this thread yet  

I'll start with my perspective:

- Halting Hakkai causing an Island level shockwave
- Making Big Mom and Kaido shit their pants both with his offensive hornbuster and the above Hakkai
- Permanently scarring Kaido
- Actually clashing and blocking multiple club swings while extremely injured:



Far surpass simply clashing with him so far.

A lot of people keep saying Zoro's injuries didn't impact his Asura attack output. Ok. But here we have an extremely injured Zoro repelling Hybrid Kaido's attacks so in full health of course he would have held his own for a bit too. Or do injuries not matter at all then in any aspect of a fight when it comes to Zoro? I guess Oda keeps Zoro getting injured for shits and giggles.

Reactions: Winner 8 | Informative 1


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## KBD (Jun 13, 2021)

Yamato takes it.

The first thing Yamato will do when he joins the SHs is to declare her position as Oden ,keeper of the journa and first mate.

Zoro has a problem with this due to muh samurai, and then Yamato baguas his lights out.

Reactions: Funny 4 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Perrin (Jun 13, 2021)

killfox said:


> In a few simple words. I doubt he’ll hesitate to knock Yamato the fuck out


It’d be poetic, people in this arc have a habit of hesitating before striking pretend odens


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## IHateAnnoyingJerks (Jun 13, 2021)

Are you guys high?  If Yamato set to join SHs then she's below M3.  Zoro is FM so Zoro with upper mid diff.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Tier Specialist 4


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## walter18x (Jun 14, 2021)

yamato made zoro fans use the m3 argument lol

Reactions: Funny 19


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## trance (Jun 14, 2021)

i guess yamato does have one thing in common with oden; both are causing usebros to rethink their tier lists

Reactions: Funny 3


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## TheMoffinMan (Jun 14, 2021)

The one thing in Yamatos favour is that she'll have an extended 1v1 with Kaido where as Zoro only had short clashes, and was almost never the target of Kaidos attacks.

That said there's no way Yamato will be stronger than Zoro from a story perspective, especially if she's really set to join the SHs. End of Wano Zoro will definitley be above Yamato. Current Zoro most likely already is.


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## Corax (Jun 14, 2021)

Yamato is only holding back weakened Kaido. But if she breaks some of his bones or weapon?Well may be,but I just can't see this at all. At best she'll leave some scuff marks/bruises on his face before super Luffy saves her from defeat.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Empathy (Jun 14, 2021)

Even if she holds off Kaidou for a little while, Kaidou isn’t feeling threatened or taking her seriously. He wants her to be shogun and he doesn’t think that Luffy’s coming back, so he has no reason to get really serious and is just trying to teach her a lesson. With Kaidou being clearly the strongest one on the island, it’s hard to infer character’s strength based solely on his fights when he’s constantly getting gang-banged in order to make a competitive fight, or is never really challenged 1v1.

Compared to that, it’s much easier to gauge a character’s level if say, Sanji has a high difficulty 1v1 fight against Queen, or if Zoro does the same against King one-on-one. A Y2 or Y3 can put in a valiant effort against Kaidou and not be instantly fodderized if Kaidou’s not playing with his food, but that doesn’t make them a YC1+. That’s how you get silly stuff like people saying Killer was a YC1 for a while and then he gets paired 1v1 agains Hawkins. We’ve clearer things to gauge Yamato’s strength off of like her fighting Ace to a draw; she’s probably close in strength to Jinbe, but not Zoro.


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## Garcher (Jun 14, 2021)

Empathy said:


> Even if she holds off Kaidou for a little while, Kaidou isn’t feeling threatened or taking her seriously. He wants her to be shogun and he doesn’t think that Luffy’s coming back, so he has no reason to get really serious and is just trying to teach her a lesson. With Kaidou being clearly the strongest one on the island, it’s hard to infer character’s strength based solely on his fights when he’s constantly getting gang-banged in order to make a competitive fight, or is never really challenged 1v1.
> 
> Compared to that, it’s much easier to gauge a character’s level if say, Sanji has a high difficulty 1v1 fight against Queen, or if Zoro does the same against King one-on-one. A Y2 or Y3 can put in a valiant effort against Kaidou and not be instantly fodderized if Kaidou’s not playing with his food, but that doesn’t make them a YC1+. That’s how you get silly stuff like people saying Killer was a YC1 for a while and then he gets paired 1v1 agains Hawkins. We’ve clearer things to gauge Yamato’s strength off of like her fighting Ace to a draw; she’s probably close in strength to Jinbe, but not Zoro.


Kaido literally says he won't go easy on Yamato

and then there's you, saying that Kaido will go easy on her.


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## Mercurial (Jun 14, 2021)

Garcher said:


> Kaido literally says he won't go easy on Yamato
> 
> and then there's you, saying that Kaido will go easy on her.


Just like in Marineford we had Mihawk stating that he won't go easy on Rufy.

So a serious and focused Mihawk with killing intent was unable to land a single hit on Pre TS Rufy?

Or maybe... it was all talk for the drama?

Reactions: Winner 3


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## Strobacaxi (Jun 14, 2021)

If she joins the crew, absolutely Zoro.
If she doesn't, probably still Zoro

Yamato has much to do before she can be put on Zoro's level


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## Empathy (Jun 14, 2021)

Garcher said:


> Kaido literally says he won't go easy on Yamato
> 
> and then there's you, saying that Kaido will go easy on her.



That’s a generic dialogue threat to scare her. He’s just saying that he’s not going to go easy on her just because she’s his daughter. If Kaidou’s capable of one-shotting Luffy when he’s serious, then he can do the same to Yamato if he really wants to. Yamato’s not capable of challenging or actually threatening to defeat him, so he’s not going to approach it the same way as if he was fighting Shanks or something. It’s in-character for Kaidou to job and take a bunch of unnecessary hits, especially when he knows he’s much stronger than his opponent. He’s written that way because he’s too strong and chapters would be boring and over quickly if he took every opponent seriously and just decided to one-shot them from the get-go. But people are going to see her not get instantly beaten and assume things like she must be YC1 or close in strength to an admiral to last against Kaidou, even though Kaidou’s jobbed in every single fight he’s ever been in so far.


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## Garcher (Jun 14, 2021)

Empathy said:


> That’s a generic dialogue threat to scare her. He’s just saying that he’s not going to go easy on her just because she’s his daughter. If Kaidou’s capable of one-shotting Luffy when he’s serious, then he can do the same to Yamato if he really wants to. Yamato’s not capable of challenging or actually threatening to defeat him, so he’s not going to approach it the same way as if he was fighting Shanks or something. It’s in-character for Kaidou to job and take a bunch of unnecessary hits, especially when he knows he’s much stronger than his opponent. He’s written that way because he’s too strong and chapters would be boring and over quickly if he took every opponent seriously and just decided to one-shot them from the get-go. But people are going to see her not get instantly beaten and assume things like she must be YC1 or close in strength to an admiral to last against Kaidou, even though Kaidou’s jobbed in every single fight he’s ever been in so far.


The burden of proof is on you, kid. Yamato being weaker than post-WCI Luffy is just your baseless assumption, and Kaido holding back specifically against her despite saying otherwise is also just your assumption.


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## Empathy (Jun 14, 2021)

Garcher said:


> The burden of proof is on you, kid.



??? Take it easy, big guy.



Garcher said:


> Yamato being weaker than post-WCI Luffy is just your baseless assumption, and Kaido holding back specifically against her despite saying otherwise is also just your assumption.



Kaidou one-shot post-Udon Luffy as well. The fight’s only going to last as long as Kaidou wants it to, because they’re not on the same level and they’ve both acknowledged it. Kaidou’s jobbed in every single fight he’s ever been in so far, but now I’m sure against Yamato is when he’s gonna finally start fighting seriously like his life is on the line, despite having absolutely no reason to do so against his own daughter—who he wants to keep alive and is not threatened by at all. Kaidou will job against Yamato to make the chapter(s) drag and keep it interesting from a narrative perspective, right until it’s time for Luffy to make his dramatic save reentrance.


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## ShadoLord (Jun 14, 2021)

The only way I see Yamato being stronger than Zoro is if she can smash Kaido's head and cause him brain damage to put that above the permanent scar.


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## Perrin (Jun 14, 2021)

Zoro said:


> The only way I see Yamato being stronger than Zoro is if she can smash Kaido's head and cause him brain damage to put that above the permanent scar.


Erm, one of these wounds is far worse than the other!
She’ll probs just open odens old scar.


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## ShadoLord (Jun 14, 2021)

Perrin said:


> Erm, one of these wounds is far worse than the other!
> She’ll probs just open odens old scar.


Yah which is why I'll give her the higher standing point if she is capable of that.


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## Freechoice (Jun 14, 2021)

IHateAnnoyingJerks said:


> Are you guys high?  If Yamato set to join SHs then she's below M3.  Zoro is FM so Zoro with upper mid diff.



You must hate yourself


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## Corax (Jun 14, 2021)

Zoro said:


> Yah which is why I'll give her the higher standing point if she is capable of that.


He is already weakened. Still I can't see this happening. At best she'll leave some bruises or scuff marks on his face.


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## maupp (Jun 15, 2021)

Why are Zoro feats against Kaido downplayed?

Feels like both detractors and some Zoro stans themselves don't understand what actually transpired between broken bones Zoro and hybrid Kaido hence why they feel the need to worry about Yamato's standing in comparison to Zoro if she pulls some respectable feats against Kaido.

The sooner people actually understand that what Zoro has done to Kaido is unmatched so far by any on the alliance side the quicker they'll chill about this whole bit.

Broken bones Zoro didn't just clash with Kaido, looked good then got pawned which is what I'm expecting to happen to Yamato and probably what happened to Luffy off panel.

What Zoro did was best hybrid Kaido in close combat(parried him, blitzed him and cut him) then was out of juice due to Hakkai aftermath (the might of 2 Yonkous combined) and dropped on his own.

Oda didn't just let Kaido rekt him. Even after giving Zoro a cool showing against Hybrid Kaido (scarring him), Oda didn't just feel like "well I've let him shine so it's time to wreck him because he's up against a Yonkou after all". He didn't do that but instead had Zoro on his own drop due to the might of 2 Yonkous combined. None has gotten such respect by Oda this arc. Everyone else are getting dropped by Kaido solo yet Oda choose 2 Yonkous to accomplish that for Zoro.

A severely weakened Zoro performed these feats:

- parried Hybrid Kaido which means he contended with him physically.

- blitzed him

- Then left an everlasting damage by scarring him. Only second dude ever despite Kaido having fought a bunch including a top tier swordman like Shanks. 

I can guarantee Yamato at full power won't manage these feats in the coming chapters which means Yamato won't even be pulling feats at the level of a severely weakened Zoro.

Zorotards ought to relax here. Oda made a huge mistake by having weakened Zoro best hybrid Kaido in their short bout because it's become extremely hard to top his feats. Only Luffy will be surpassing Zoro's feats and even then it doesn't matter because Oda as usual couldn't let a Zoro at full power let loose against an arc main antagonist, even a Yonkou.

Oda knows how to protect Zoro. He gets it.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 8 | Optimistic 1


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## JayK (Jun 15, 2021)

Yamato has boobas so she wins

there you go


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## KBD (Jun 15, 2021)

I think Yamato is going to be contesting the top ranks of the SHs. But @maupp builds a strong case.

Yet, Zoro might have higher attack power, at max on demand. Even greater than Luffys tbh, but can he muster the longetivity?

Because Yamato is probably going to wash everyone on that front that faced Kaido so far, excluding BM ofc.


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## KBD (Jun 15, 2021)

JayK said:


> Yamato has boobas so she wins
> 
> there you go


But just the grandmasters intent to kill froze that sex fiend harpy hoe Monet in place alone.

Your milkers have no power here.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## JayK (Jun 15, 2021)

KBD said:


> But just the grandmasters intent to kill froze that sex fiend harpy hoe Monet in place alone.
> 
> Your milkers have no power here.


Still more power than a bunch of weirdos meme'ing how the M3 is not a thing anymore but then use it as an argument here anyway.


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## KBD (Jun 15, 2021)

JayK said:


> Still more power than a bunch of weirdos meme'ing how the M3 is not a thing anymore but then use it as an argument here anyway.


Yes well to put it simply:

Stairs>Kuina>=Tashigi>Zoro>=Sideboob son> median power level of the M3

I hope this helps

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Duhul10 (Jun 15, 2021)

Post Kaido fight Yamato will make a lot of people take a break from the OPBD

Reactions: Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## maupp (Jun 15, 2021)

KBD said:


> I think Yamato is going to be contesting the top ranks of the SHs. But @maupp builds a strong case.
> 
> Yet, Zoro might have higher attack power, at max on demand. Even greater than Luffys tbh, but can he muster the longetivity?
> 
> Because Yamato is probably going to wash everyone on that front that faced Kaido so far, excluding BM ofc.


I've honestly stopped caring about longevity in OP and simply stuck to outcome and output since realizing that Oda uses that longevity for fake hype.

I still remember Ace and Jimbei fighting for days yet they were fodders relatively speaking (compared to this level). Zoro's fight against Zombie Ryuma was less than 5 minutes yet was very intense. As a swordfighter himself Zoro tends to make his fight quick or rather Oda tends to have Zoro's fights be short especially post skip and I suspect it's also because Oda can't really draw sword fights nor does he look inspired to do so(I mean most Zoro post skip fights consist of a few panels of him blocking then a double spread finish. Unless it's Luffy Oda hasn't bothered to put in much effort drawing fights post skip sadly).

Also after seeing Kidd "stall" BM the past few chapters in their stare fest I put even less emphasis on longevity and focus only on output. Whether it's a few seconds or hours, whoever putting in the real work meaning inflicting actual damage to their opponents get my nod.

This is why I never got all wowed by Luffy's newly awakened ad CoC attack and punching Kaido. Sure it looks cool on panel and Oda dedicated all his love and effort drawing those multiple panels (personally wanted to see some of those go to Ashura Zoro vs Kaido to elaborate that fight properly and make it more transparent since it seems like people are failing to grasp the totality of events and actions that happened between Ashura Zoro and Kaido due to condensed and few panels used) but until Luffy starts putting in heavy damages then he should stick to getting new power up every other chapters for all I care. Show me results son, no amount of pretty panels impresses me until I see results. 

So output wise, Zoro is simply stacked feat wise from the Rooftop. He didn't get Luffy's amount of panel time on the roof but he sure as hell was the highlight to me with scarring Kaido and Hakkai making that possible.

Scarring Kaido proved his offense(plus cutting the horn, "Kaido dodge", tastumaki overpowering Kaido's own attacks and cutting him) while Hakkai hyped his defense, physical strength and endurance. Yamato ain't topping that, I'm fairly confident in that.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 2


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## KBD (Jun 15, 2021)

@maupp well to be fair, Zoro has some longetivity. G4 Luffy gassed out and already got saved once by Zoro on the roof and then some.

 But I understand the frustration and can relate to the meaninglessness of having offpanel days and hours be dropped in for nothing.

Still Yamato is 1v1, the boys were 5v2. It surely raises Yamatos stock, no?


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## Perrin (Jun 15, 2021)

KBD said:


> Yes well to put it simply:
> 
> Stairs>Kuina>=Tashigi>Zoro>=Sideboob son> median power level of the M3
> 
> I hope this helps


Didnt zoro run away from the staircase in EL?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Perrin (Jun 15, 2021)

maupp said:


> I've honestly stopped caring about longevity in OP and simply stuck to outcome and output since realizing that Oda uses that longevity for fake hype.
> 
> I still remember Ace and Jimbei fighting for days yet they were fodders relatively speaking (compared to this level). Zoro's fight against Zombie Ryuma was less than 5 minutes yet was very intense. As a swordfighter himself Zoro tends to make his fight quick or rather Oda tends to have Zoro's fights be short especially post skip and I suspect it's also because Oda can't really draw sword fights nor does he look inspired to do so(I mean most Zoro post skip fights consist of a few panels of him blocking then a double spread finish. Unless it's Luffy Oda hasn't bothered to put in much effort drawing fights post skip sadly).
> 
> ...


Decent post, I’m sold on Zoro winning from this, decent point about the rushed asura panels, i await the anime

Reactions: Agree 1


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## maupp (Jun 15, 2021)

KBD said:


> @maupp well to be fair, Zoro has some longetivity. G4 Luffy gassed out and already got saved once by Zoro on the roof and then some.
> 
> But I understand the frustration and can relate to the meaninglessness of having offpanel days and hours be dropped in for nothing.
> 
> Still Yamato is 1v1, the boys were 5v2. It surely raises Yamatos stock, no?


Yamato is definitely that strong, it has clearly always been Oda intentions to have her be that way. I mean she'll probably be revealed to have both CoC and Ad CoC(or we could all be wrong and it wasn't an ad CoC clash but just the generic CoA black lightning but thicker), so she's a heavy hitter. 

I'm just reassuring some Zoro fans who seems to be worried about Yamato somehow to the point of using the M3 argument( ) to gauge Zoro above her when there is no need for such given how stacked Zoro is feat wise and unlikely to be bested by Yamato.

I personally want Yamato to join, remains as overpowered as initially portrayed and remain that way even after joining. I don't want her to get nerfed in later arcs just to keep the M3 fanbase happy. 

A female character among the top SHs fighters is pretty dope.

Reactions: Like 3


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## KBD (Jun 15, 2021)

maupp said:


> Yamato is definitely that strong, it has clearly always been Oda intentions to have her be that way. I mean she'll probably be revealed to have both CoC and Ad CoC(or we could all be wrong and it wasn't an ad CoC clash but just the generic CoA black lightning but thicker), so she's a heavy hitter.
> 
> I'm just reassuring some Zoro fans who seems to be worried about Yamato somehow to the point of using the M3 argument( ) to gauge Zoro above her when there is no need for such given how stacked Zoro is feat wise and unlikely to be bested by Yamato.
> 
> ...


As a Yamato fan and a ZKK enthusiast I cosign this message.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Pirao (Jul 18, 2021)

Bump


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## Eustathios (Jul 18, 2021)

Still Zoro


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## Strobacaxi (Jul 18, 2021)

Still Zoro


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## Van Basten (Jul 18, 2021)

Looking forward to the pathetic posts playing up Yamato and downplaying Zoro. Also, more “‘Monster Trio is dead” rhetoric.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


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## Mihawk (Jul 18, 2021)

Crazy how agitated ppl on the forums get over a little info from a new chapter. There is always an overreaction from either side, and so much panicked vitriol. The stakes aren’t really that high lol. Oda would never introduce a new crew member who would be stronger than Zoro. Even if she doesn’t join and is made to look stronger, she won’t sustain that dynamic for long.

If I were to guess, Yamato is still beneath the likes of Sabo, Luffy, and Zoro. She’s a YC1-YC2. I also can’t see her beating Marco since I believe he possesses the better Mythical Zoan. As far as Zoro is concerned though, I think he can beat her with high/very high diff. Speculation, but I got a feeling she’s around King’s level at best.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Friendly 1


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## B Rabbit (Jul 18, 2021)

Zoro.

She's YC1 level for sure. Stronger than Sanji for sure. However Zoro? Nah.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## OG sama (Jul 18, 2021)

Very hard to say, Oda doesn’t give a damn about power levels.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Yamato was only YC3 level and somehow has been fighting on par with Kaido because he’s holding back contrary to him saying that he wouldn’t.

Oda is going to do what the plot demands most of the time. And right now she has to hold him off before Luffy gets back.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Akira1993 (Jul 18, 2021)

B Rabbit said:


> Zoro.
> 
> She's YC1 level for sure. Stronger than Sanji for sure. However Zoro? Nah.


Do you believe that depending on what Sanji do against Queen, it will change your mind? Or you think that Yamato will stay above Sanji by feat during Wano?


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## B Rabbit (Jul 18, 2021)

He's not YC3 level lol.

Oda does care about power levels just not to the headcanon that you guys do.

He's going to put story over power levels but he still thinks about them clearly.y

If order for Sanji to have feats similar to Yamato and Zoro he would simply have to have feats against Kaidou honestly. Or fodderize to low diff Queen.

But regardless of any of that Yamato is not stronger than Zoro.

Reactions: Like 2 | Useful 1


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## Perrin (Jul 18, 2021)

I wanna find out what her mythic ability is

Reactions: Like 2


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## B Rabbit (Jul 18, 2021)

Perrin said:


> I wanna find out what her mythic ability is


This as well.


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## Mihawk (Jul 18, 2021)

Well as far as the Yamato > Sanji thing i'm not even sure too, which is why I'm holding out reservation for Yamato being "YC2" or second commander level. Or that Sanji reaches "YC1" by the end of the arc, which is where Yamato could be at this moment.

Sanji was able to exchange blows in base against Hybrid Queen while smiling. I wonder though, what will you guys think if/when Yamato will ultimately finish the arc with Jack as her final opponent, while Sanji beats Queen?  Of course, I guess their conditions entering the fights would be the main factor, and not just the match ups.


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## B Rabbit (Jul 18, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> Well as far as the Yamato > Sanji thing i'm not even sure too, which is why I'm holding out reservation for Yamato being "YC2" or second commander level.
> 
> Sanji was able to exchange blows in base against Hybrid Queen while smiling. I wonder though, what will you guys think if/when Yamato will ultimately finish the arc with Jack as her final opponent, while Sanji beats Queen?  Of course, I guess their conditions entering the fights would be the main factor, and not just the match ups.


Alot of what it's for things not even happening.

All that matters is what already happened and Yamato's feats are just much better than Sanji's.

This is the problem is you guys out false things in your head hoping and wishing for some headcanon outcome to happen.  Yamato is fighting a Hybrid Kaidou right now for an extended period of time.  That feat right there is already better than Sanji. Now if some lthing happens feat wise or plot wise we can change but right now it hasn't.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kroczilla (Jul 18, 2021)

B Rabbit said:


> If order for Sanji to have feats similar to Yamato and Zoro he would simply have to have feats against Kaidou honestly. *Or fodderize to low diff Queen*.


@bolded is quite exaggerated. Even Zoro (our "measuring stick for all intents and purposes) saw Queen as a difficult opponent. The standard you're setting seems higher than Zoro's own estimation of how a fight would actually have gone between him and Queen.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## B Rabbit (Jul 18, 2021)

Kroczilla said:


> @bolded is quite exaggerated. Even Zoro (our "measuring stick for all intents and purposes) saw Queen as a difficult opponent. The standard you're setting seems higher than Zoro's own estimation of how a fight would actually have gone between him and Queen.


I don't remember Zoro actually saying this about Queen at all. In the official. Mind posting it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kroczilla (Jul 18, 2021)

B Rabbit said:


> I don't remember Zoro actually saying this about Queen at all. In the official. Mind posting it.

Reactions: Like 5 | Tier Specialist 1


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## B Rabbit (Jul 18, 2021)

Kroczilla said:


> @bolded is quite exaggerated. Even Zoro (our "measuring stick for all intents and purposes) saw Queen as a difficult opponent. The standard you're setting seems higher than Zoro's own estimation of how a fight would actually have gone between him and Queen.


Did
That doesn't mean anything

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## convict (Jul 18, 2021)

Zoro literally ignored Queen and started talking to Luffy about Kaido when he was standing right next to Queen saying soon after that he has bigger fish to fry.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## B Rabbit (Jul 18, 2021)

Zoro just admitted Queen or King were strong. Not that Queen would give him a Mid to High diff fight.

This is reaching.

Zoro sending flashing slashes to Queen and demanding he let him see Kaidou. Is all I need to know.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Kroczilla (Jul 18, 2021)

B Rabbit said:


> That doesn't mean anything


How so?


convict said:


> Zoro literally ignored Queen and started talking to Luffy about Kaido *when he was right next to him saying soon after that he has bigger fish to fry.*


I don't recall Queen being next to Zoro. Also Luffy ignored Big mom when she literally launched an attack at him. That doesn't mean that she isn't a "big fish".



B Rabbit said:


> Zoro just admitted Queen or King were strong. Not that Queen would give him a Mid to High diff fight.
> 
> This is reaching.


Pointing out that a path wouldn't be simple/easy at the barest minimum implies a significant lvl of difficulty.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 3


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## convict (Jul 18, 2021)

I am not saying that 100% means Zoro >>> Queen. What it does mean is that Zoro himself gave 2 shits about Queen himself. If a foe catches his fancy enough he'll stay back to clean things up as happened countless times before like Dressrosa. Queen didn't.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Admiral Akanezumi (Jul 18, 2021)

Depend if she can use ACoC consistently. It seems to be a good counter against people who use weapons as it makes it much harder to achieve direct contact and get those single decisive strikes in. If she can use ACoC like Luffy or Kaido, then I give it to Yamato for the time being.



Beast said:


> Luffy>~ kidd>~ Yamato> law>~ zoro


Kidd

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mihawk (Jul 18, 2021)

B Rabbit said:


> *Alot of what it's for things not even happening.*
> 
> All that matters is what already happened and Yamato's feats are just much better than Sanji's.
> 
> This is the problem is you guys out false things in your head hoping and wishing for some headcanon outcome to happen.  Yamato is fighting a Hybrid Kaidou right now for an extended period of time.  *That feat right there is already better than Sanji. Now if some lthing happens feat wise or plot wise we can change but right now it hasn't.*



Yeah but that's why I prefaced it by saying I was posing/asking you folks a question. You call headcanon, but I said it was obviously hypothetical/speculative. Of course if we're just going by what's happened at this very moment, then yes Yamato > Sanji. And I acknowledged that fully.

But The circumstances or takes are bound to change from chapter to chapter as you've just acknowledged too. Based on this chapter alone and the last one, Yamato's stock seems to have clearly soared in the OL's eyes.


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## LaniDani (Jul 18, 2021)

Zoro.


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## TrolonoaZoro (Jul 18, 2021)

The attempts to reinvent Queen's portrayal mid arc is comedy.

Anyways, Oda making Zoro half dead before vs him out with Kaido
vs
Potential father/daughter held back while off-screen fighting is not enough information in Yamato's part because Oda hasn't "double down" on her feats, we can merely make an informed guess.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Eustathios (Jul 18, 2021)

I agree with that. People severely underestimate the Calamities. Zoro saw both King and Queen as strong opposition. You can't interpret his statement in any other way. Does that mean that they have a shot of beating him? Hardly so. Does that mean that Zoro can just steamroll them? Certainly not. They would both require time and effort to put down, which is why Marco stepped in for the task and left Zoro go for the bigger fish.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## JayK (Jul 18, 2021)

I can only imagine the amount of barrels of Copium needed when King vs Zoro is going to be a much closer fight than anticipated by some people here pretending Zoro would porn diff King/Queen.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## convict (Jul 18, 2021)

JayK said:


> I can only imagine the amount of barrels of Copium needed when King vs Zoro is going to be a much closer fight than anticipated by some people here pretending Zoro would porn diff King/Queen.



If that is the case (I dearly hope it is Zoro needs a good 1 on 1) King should be upgraded to Zoro level. Zoro doesn't get downgraded. He already has the feats to back up being on that high YC1 tier. Queen also doesn't automatically get upgraded alongside King either. There is an annoying habit of people applying Zoro's insane feats to Sanji as well as "he shouldn't be that far behind". The evidence for Queen being nigh-equals to King is subjective interpretation at best right now and that will be blown to smithereens If King gives Zoro a very good fight. We know how Queen interacted with a Yonkou and we know how Zoro does. The gap between the two is significant.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 4


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## Eustathios (Jul 18, 2021)

convict said:


> If that is the case (I dearly hope it is Zoro needs a good 1 on 1) King should be upgraded to Zoro level. Zoro doesn't get downgraded. He already has the feats to back up being on that high YC1 tier.


Yeah, I also don't know why people are so caught up with this. It's King that has something to prove not Zoro. Zoro already showed what he can do on the rooftop.


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## JayK (Jul 18, 2021)

convict said:


> If that is the case (I dearly hope it is Zoro needs a good 1 on 1) King should be upgraded to Zoro level. Zoro doesn't get downgraded. He already has the feats to back up being on that high YC1 tier.


Why would Zoro get downgraded?

It's just basic Shonen logic that later Yonko Commanders > earlier Yonko commanders appearing in the series.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Jul 18, 2021)

convict said:


> If that is the case (I dearly hope it is Zoro needs a good 1 on 1) King should be upgraded to Zoro level. Zoro doesn't get downgraded. He already has the feats to back up being on that high YC1 tier. Queen also doesn't automatically get upgraded alongside King either. There is an annoying habit of people applying Zoro's insane feats to Sanji as well as "he shouldn't be that far behind". The evidence for Queen being nigh-equals to King is subjective interpretation at best right now and that will be blown to smithereens If King gives Zoro a very good fight. We know how Queen interacted with a Yonkou and we know how Zoro does. The gap between the two is significant.


What diff you think queen can give zoro?


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## convict (Jul 18, 2021)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> What diff you think queen can give zoro?



Mid

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Jul 18, 2021)

convict said:


> Mid


That’s what I think too. I think king is decisively stronger but idt he would mid queen.


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## xmysticgohanx (Jul 18, 2021)

Zoro is far stronger than the Sulong Minks who shit on Jack

Oda may have messed up there. Or not.


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## Kroczilla (Jul 18, 2021)

convict said:


> The evidence for Queen being nigh-equals to King is *subjective interpretation* at best right now


Pretty sure this applies more to the evidence of there being a significant gap between the two



convict said:


> We know how Queen interacted with a Yonkou and we know how Zoro does


We also know how Franky interacted with a Yonko. Doesn't mean Queen wouldn't turn him into scrap metal.

This is a clear example of double standards. Same Zoro who performed all those feats literally classified Queen same as King i.e tough opposition.


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## JayK (Jul 19, 2021)

Some people here are trying to create power scaling issues where there are none.

King and Queen are similar in strength and neither of them has shown hybrid (aka their strongest form) until recently.

Zoro/Sanji vs King/Queen is not gonna end up anywhere below high diff. That's just a lot of wishful thinking.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## JayK (Jul 19, 2021)

JayK said:


> neither of them has shown hybrid (aka their strongest form) until recently.


And to follow up on this I think its pretty dishonest to downplay King/Queen due to their performance against Marco when neither of them went close to going all out (inb4 switching forms doesn't give a significant strength boost because reasons) while also disregarding how bigger the scope of WC is compared to Cake Island.

I wonder how hard people would go off here if Katakuri and Smoothie were literally getting embarrassed by Marco cause for all we know they would have WHILE going all out aswell.


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## Strobacaxi (Jul 19, 2021)

JayK said:


> I can only imagine the amount of barrels of Copium needed when King vs Zoro is going to be a much closer fight than anticipated by some people here pretending Zoro would porn diff King/Queen.


No one thinks he can just neg diff them. General consensus is Zoro is YC1+, he's not going to neg diff King, he's going to at least high diff him.

I don't need to imagine Zoro haters pretending like he wasn't left half dead by 2 Yonkos to make his fight with King closer, I can see it everyday


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## Furinji Saiga (Jul 19, 2021)

Zoro currently has better feats and portrayal then Yamato. 

Yamato only has like one page of a clash and that is it, seems like she is stalling and buying time, unlike Zoro who was trying to cut down Kaido.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Conxc (Jul 19, 2021)

Strictly looking at feats Zoro looks better. Yamato is surviving against Kaido 1v1 right now, but he probably isn’t trying to kill her as he wants to add her to his military strength. Zoro managed to tank attacks from both Yonkou, block Hakai, which definitely would’ve killed him if not for Law but he wasn’t instantly overwhelmed like most other probably would be, and he’s also got the fear of injuring Kaido a few times without any defense bypassing techs. Zoro’s feats against Kaido are pure strength, endurance and Haki feats. The one 1v1 exchange that he got to have vs Kaido he managed to get the better of him while knocking on death’s door. That’s better than what Yamato has shown so far.

Edit: Also, you’re on crack if you think Luffy is tagging Zoro with anything from his G3 Arsenal. That’s why G4 exists, you get the power of G3 without sacrificing speed. G3’s biggest issue is that it’s too slow to effectively be used against guys who are comparable to him who are actually trying to dodge.


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## Dellinger (Jul 19, 2021)

Yamato at least has repeatedly clashed with his father. Zoro on the other hand was only attacking Kaido when Kaido was occupied with someone else. Ashura hurt Kaido yes but where is the scar people are talkin about ?

Reactions: Tier Specialist 4 | Dislike 1


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## Eustathios (Jul 19, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> Yamato at least has repeatedly clashed with his father. Zoro on the other hand was only attacking Kaido when Kaido was occupied with someone else. Ashura hurt Kaido yes but where is the scar people are talkin about ?


Zoro parried Kaido's attack before landing Asura. He wasn't occupied with anyone else. The scar became an extension of Oden's.


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## Dellinger (Jul 19, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> Zoro parried Kaido's attack before landing Asura. He wasn't occupied with anyone else. The scar became an extension of Oden's.


Where is the scar ? 

Also Zoro didnt parry shit. Zoro always does a spinnin move with Asura before dealing the final slash. That's what you guys confuse with parrying.

Zoro will probably have an all out fight with King and you guys still insist that he'd push Kaido when even Luffy wit adanced CoC only managed to make him excited.

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 3


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## Eustathios (Jul 19, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> Where is the scar ?


On Kaido's left pectoral. 


Dellinger said:


> Also Zoro didnt parry shit. Zoro always does a spinnin move with Asura before dealing the final slash. That's what you guys confuse with parrying.


Check the sound effects. 


Dellinger said:


> Zoro will probably have an all out fight with King and you guys still insist that he'd push Kaido when even Luffy wit adanced CoC only managed to make him excited.


Irrelevant. Zoro's performance was simply superior to Yamato's and the most impressive on the rooftop.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Kroczilla (Jul 19, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> Irrelevant. Zoro's performance was simply superior to Yamato's and *the most impressive on the rooftop*


Hard disagree on this specific point. Luffy matching Kaido's AdCoc blow for blow is by far the best feat on the roof top. I don't think it's debatable that hybrid Kaido with AdCoc would have done a much better job than Zoro had he been on the receiving end of the combined Hakkai.


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## Ssjloke (Jul 19, 2021)

Zolo gets folded as usual

Reactions: Tier Specialist 2 | Dislike 1


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## Perrin (Jul 19, 2021)

A female,
Who doesn’t use swords,
Who knows the layout they’re fighting in,
Zoro’s three biggest weaknesses.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mihawk (Jul 19, 2021)

Perrin said:


> A female


Zoro has no problem with cutting down a female.


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## Perrin (Jul 19, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> Zoro has no problem with cutting down a female.


Really? I only remember him cheek grazing the bird bird. My bad


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## Conxc (Jul 19, 2021)

Kaido literally said himself…that Zoro’s attack would leave a scar…. And that was a 1v1 scenario between him and Zoro, the only one for any of the rooftop Novas minus Luffy…

Just hate or honest reading comp issue? 

Also I think Zoro would put a female character in the dirt if she could actually push him that far.

Good thing this is One Piece.


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## Bobybobster (Jul 19, 2021)

I mean asura is looking pretty good, can't see what yamato has that can counter that. Especially if a 100% zoro can use it multiple times...


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## Vivo Diez (Jul 19, 2021)

Corax said:


> As for feats Zoro also can hold G3 Luffy without problems.





Mercurial said:


> LOL read the manga instead of Three Piece. Just go and see and compare Rufy's Gear 3 managing to only destroy Pica's golem's head, while Zoro, without Asura, fucking bisected it in half.


This didn't age well

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Eustathios (Jul 19, 2021)

Kroczilla said:


> Hard disagree on this specific point. Luffy matching Kaido's AdCoc blow for blow is by far the best feat on the roof top. I don't think it's debatable that hybrid Kaido with AdCoc would have done a much better job than Zoro had he been on the receiving end of the combined Hakkai.


Fair. We can disagree, but I think if Hakai didn't hit Zoro, his performance would be on par with Luffy's at least. He showed that he can deal serious damage even when severely injured.


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## Vivo Diez (Jul 19, 2021)

Conxc said:


> Kaido literally said himself…that Zoro’s attack would leave a scar…. And that was a 1v1 scenario between him and Zoro, the only one for any of the rooftop Novas minus Luffy…
> 
> Just hate or honest reading comp issue?


It'll leave a mark because of CoC presumingly. The actual attack he shrugged off like it wasn't a big deal.

Denjiro also managed to impale Kaido, the only difference being is no CoC applied as far as we know.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kroczilla (Jul 19, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> It'll leave a mark because of CoC presumingly. The actual attack he shrugged off like it wasn't a big deal.
> 
> Denjiro also managed to impale Kaido, the only difference being is no CoC applied as far as we know.


Not just Denjiro. Kiku's sword went clean through his palm but didn't scar.



It would seem that COC is the defining factor between wounds that he can shrug off due to HF and wounds that leave permanent scars.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 2


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## Shanal (Jul 19, 2021)

Yamato, with hybrid, has managed to go CQC with Kaido without getting destroyed- though isn't doing any damage to Kaido either and is overall more exhausted and hurt.

Zoro, with 30+ broken bones, can engage Kaido in CQC with Asura, win the CQC engage, and then blitz him into a permanent scar- damage for life. Granted, it's with Asura, but the fact that the feat is astronomically better than what Yamato is achieving- plus the fact that Zoro was *insanely *injured (and Arlong confirmed being injured = less damage output)... yeah, Zoro should be able to replicate Yamato's feats just fine, if not better.

Zoro high-diffs.

Also, people implying scar requiring CoC are baseless. When Kaido got attacked by Scabbards, he initially thought they could hurt him just as much as Oden- and he didn't think once about CoC; he mentioned Ryou.

Oden has also shown zero evidence of CoC coating.

And scars don't really need CoC or whatever. It might not make much sense in terms of IRL physics, but in OP-verse... strong attack just inflict scars, as simple as that. Mihawk's cut on Zoro's chest inflicted a scar, meawhile getting stabbed through his torso didn't- and many other similar examples. It's not because of CoC or whatever- just that stronger attacks in OP leave a lasting mark, as always.

Reactions: Like 6 | Agree 1 | Winner 3


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## Mercurial (Jul 19, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> This didn't age well


?

Reactions: Agree 4


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## convict (Jul 19, 2021)

I'm also confused why it didn't age well

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Conxc (Jul 19, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> It'll leave a mark because of CoC presumingly. The actual attack he shrugged off like it wasn't a big deal.
> 
> Denjiro also managed to impale Kaido, the only difference being is no CoC applied as far as we know.


A mark of CoC… remind me again what that is and where we’ve seen that before in the manga. Kaido said in plain English that Zoro will leave a scar. There’s not mental gymnastics that you can do to make that plain as day statement mean anything other than what he said. It’s very straightforward.

Anyway, it was clear that the Scabbards did hardly any damage to him. He even told them collectively, that their attack on his scar that Oden left was too shallow and that they don’t have enough power to open the scar up. Another plain as day comment made by him and the complete opposite of what he told Zoro about his own attack. The difference is clear. If you’re still downplaying the feat then idk what else to say. Haters gonna hate.


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## Conxc (Jul 19, 2021)

Also, Kaido is a tank type character. If you go back to chapter 1000 when the rooftop fight started Kaido took a few attacks that he admitted did hurt him and *appeared *to shrug them off. We probably won’t see him actually *showing *the damage he took until he is just about to be defeated. He literally pushes through every bit of damage he took from even Luffy. After all the damage he took from Luffy, CoC imbued attacks, Ashura, Kidd, Law, Killer’s attacks, in the latest chapter he’s smiling and fighting Yamato. Showing no signs of having been injured. That’s just the kind of character he did. If you think that he hasn’t *actually *sustained meaningful damage up to this point then I just don’t know.


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## Kroczilla (Jul 19, 2021)

Shanal said:


> Also, people implying scar requiring CoC are baseless. When Kaido got attacked by Scabbards, he initially thought they could hurt him just as much as Oden- and he didn't think once about CoC; he mentioned Ryou.



Yeah, he mentioned specifically "Oden's Ryou". This implies that there was something special about Oden's Ryou that could legit hurt him based on his experience.

Zoro had cut Kaido before, however it wasn't until his final attack that COC got mentioned. 



Shanal said:


> Oden has also shown zero evidence of CoC coating.





The attack that scarred Kaido certainly shows the tell tale trails that imply a COC haki type attack was used. It also makes no sense plot wise that Oden wouldn't have learnt the technique after seeing it in action and spending time with Roger. 

There's also the fact that Kaido considers Oden to be among the strongest guys he's ever met and iirc, said something to the effect of AdCoc being something only the strongest folks could use. 
I find it hard to believe that Oden would not have atleast cleared a barrier that Luffy managed to, especially considering that Luffy even at his best hasn't quite gotten the lvl of reverence Kaido has for Oden.



Shanal said:


> And scars don't really need CoC or whatever. It might not make much sense in terms of IRL physics, but in OP-verse... strong attack just inflict scars, as simple as that. Mihawk's cut on Zoro's chest inflicted a scar, meawhile getting stabbed through his torso didn't- and many other similar examples. It's not because of CoC or whatever- just that stronger attacks in OP leave a lasting mark, as always.


Mihawk's attack inflicted a scar coz it's literally the worst laceration Zoro has ever received. Just the fact that he was still standing with said injury had Arlong shitting himself. There's also the plot significance of said scar given that it in all likelihood prompted Zoro to make a promise to never lose.

The the whole "nothing happened" injuries and the double Hakkai zoro took are obviously much stronger but they won't leave scars or any lastly marks.


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Jul 19, 2021)

Kroczilla said:


> Yeah, he mentioned specifically "Oden's Ryou". This implies that there was something special about Oden's Ryou that could legit hurt him based on his experience.
> 
> Zoro had cut Kaido before, however it wasn't until his final attack that COC got mentioned.
> 
> ...


Tell tale signs being the black lightning? Only the strongest have coc coating them putting oden among the strongest seems like enough evidence anyway


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## Kroczilla (Jul 19, 2021)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> Tell tale signs being the black lightning?


Tell tale signs being black lightning that lingers after the attack.


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## Dunno (Jul 20, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> This didn't age well


Did you perhaps quote the wrong people?


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## Tenma (Jul 20, 2021)

Zoro wins for now, but as I predicted once both had a chance to show their stuff this ended up not being cut and dry


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## Vivo Diez (Jul 20, 2021)

Conxc said:


> A mark of CoC… remind me again what that is and where we’ve seen that before in the manga. Kaido said in plain English that Zoro will leave a scar. There’s not mental gymnastics that you can do to make that plain as day statement mean anything other than what he said. It’s very straightforward.
> 
> Anyway, it was clear that the Scabbards did hardly any damage to him. He even told them collectively, that their attack on his scar that Oden left was too shallow and that they don’t have enough power to open the scar up. Another plain as day comment made by him and the complete opposite of what he told Zoro about his own attack. The difference is clear. If you’re still downplaying the feat then idk what else to say. Haters gonna hate.


He said Zoro used conquerors with the attack and that it's going to leave a scar, as oppposed to all of his other attacks, which some we've seen do more immediate damage and have a bigger effect on Kaido. All of this happening at the same time as Luffy figuring out how to use CoC to properly fight Kaido. It doesn't take a genius to figure out what this is implying.


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## Vivo Diez (Jul 20, 2021)

Mercurial said:


> ?





convict said:


> I'm also confused why it didn't age well





Dunno said:


> Did you perhaps quote the wrong people?


Considering Luffy would pummel Zoro without even using G4,maybe even just with base now


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## convict (Jul 20, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> Considering Luffy would pummel Zoro without even using G4,maybe even just with base now



Your misguided opinion not withstanding, what does that have to do with his quote which revolved around a much weaker Luffy who hadn't yet gotten that club-to-ballsack powerup at that point in time?

Reactions: Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Conxc (Jul 20, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> He said Zoro used conquerors with the attack and that it's going to leave a scar, as oppposed to all of his other attacks, which some we've seen do more immediate damage and have a bigger effect on Kaido. All of this happening at the same time as Luffy figuring out how to use CoC to properly fight Kaido. It doesn't take a genius to figure out what this is implying.


For one, that would mean CoC imbued attacks…leave scars? If I’m understanding you right, you seem to think that the CoC itself would leave a mark, regardless of the nature of the attack? That doesn’t really make any sense.

Kaido _explicitly _states that Zoro’s attack would leave a *scar*, not some mark. The CoC in Ashura provided Zoro with the cutting power to leave a permanent *scar *on Kaido. Previously he told the scabbards that their cuts were too shallow to cut him. I honestly don’t know how some of you come up with these things but anything to downplay something I guess.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Vivo Diez (Jul 20, 2021)

Conxc said:


> For one, that would mean CoC imbued attacks…leave scars? If I’m understanding you right, you seem to think that the CoC itself would leave a mark, regardless of the nature of the attack? That doesn’t really make any sense.
> 
> Kaido _explicitly _states that Zoro’s attack would leave a *scar*, not some mark. The CoC in Ashura provided Zoro with the cutting power to leave a permanent *scar *on Kaido. Previously he told the scabbards that their cuts were too shallow to cut him. I honestly don’t know how some of you come up with these things but anything to downplay something I guess.


No? The CoC attack leaves a scar that Kaido doesn't insta heal from via his DF/nature. Haki bypasses DF powers and I'm sure CoC has a multitude of properties that we still haven't gotten full info on considering Luffy discovering it's properties in real time.

In your world CoC just increased the cutting power, but then you're telling me his slash was more severe than Denjiro literally impaling Kaido in the abdomen lmao. Zoro's cut wasn't even that deep.

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheWiggian (Jul 20, 2021)

So Sakazuki leaving a scar on Luffy is confirmation of CotC imbuement

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Conxc (Jul 20, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> No? The CoC attack leaves a scar that Kaido doesn't insta heal from via his DF/nature. Haki bypasses DF powers and I'm sure CoC has a multitude of properties that we still haven't gotten full info on considering Luffy discovering it's properties in real time.
> 
> In your world CoC just increased the cutting power, but then you're telling me his slash was more severe than Denjiro literally impaling Kaido in the abdomen lmao.


Ahh ok. So you’re speculating instead of going with what the manga explicitly stated. Got it. Should’ve led with that man. Wouldn’t have wasted my time.

Obviously it was seeing how Kaido basically laughed at them then proceeded to play wack-a-mole with them, minus the effort. I know you have a hard time accepting what’s explicitly stated in plain text, but he literally told them that they:
1. Are not of Oden’s caliber
2. Not strong enough to hurt him
3. Specifically that they cannot cut deep enough to even *re-open *an old scar

Oh man.


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## Vivo Diez (Jul 20, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> So Sakazuki leaving a scar on Luffy is confirmation of CotC imbuement


Kaido literally confirms that the slash was imbued with it, not sure what you're doing here


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## TheWiggian (Jul 20, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> Kaido literally confirms that the slash was imbued with it, not sure what you're doing here



I also believe CotC imbued attacks leave scars on characters. Sakazuki, Mihawk et cetera all have CotC without a doubt. Zoro cutting his legs in little garden has scars from it which hinted at CotC again.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Vivo Diez (Jul 20, 2021)

Conxc said:


> Ahh ok. So you’re speculating instead of going with what the manga explicitly stated. Got it. Should’ve led with that man. Wouldn’t have wasted my time.
> 
> Obviously it was seeing how Kaido basically laughed at them then proceeded to play wack-a-mole with them, minus the effort. I know you have a hard time accepting what’s explicitly stated in plain text, but he literally told them that they:
> 1. Are not of Oden’s caliber
> ...


Where is it explicity stated in the manga that CoC increased Zoro's cutting power?

Nowhere? Ok I guess you're wrong then


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## Vivo Diez (Jul 20, 2021)

I know Zoro fans have a hard time comprehending any concept between slash slash and harder slash slash, but Jesus

Even if you were to look at what Luffy discovered he can do with CoC you'd come to the conclusion that conquerors isn't just "punch punch harder" , but I guess you skip those panels


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## Furinji Saiga (Jul 20, 2021)

I hope people are not going to argue that the black lightning is the main sign of kings haki...

It is way too inconsistent, for now we assume Zoro used it mainly because Kaido said he did and there was no black lightning then.

I mean look at this, 4 of the top Scabbards COMBINED an attack and it has black lightning on it as well, and it did not reopen an EXISTING wound...

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 3


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## Vivo Diez (Jul 20, 2021)

Furinji Saiga said:


> I hope people are not going to argue that the black lightning is the main sign of kings haki...
> 
> It is way too inconsistent, for now we assume Zoro used it mainly because Kaido said he did and there was no black lightning then.
> 
> I mean look at this, 4 of the top Scabbards COMBINED an attack and it has black lightning on it as well, and it did not reopen an EXISTING wound...


Oden confirmed had emperor's haki though


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## Furinji Saiga (Jul 20, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> Oden confirmed had emperor's haki though


Yeah, so its pointless to assume is the black haki lightning as a confirmation of kings haki.

It is way too inconsistent. It could just be CoA haki, we cannot tell.


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## Conxc (Jul 20, 2021)

@Vivo Diez You win dude lmfao. You are incapable of even a slither of critical (and I wouldn’t even call it critical) thinking and my patience isn’t what it used to be. You win dude. I concede. You’re a fucking genius. Sorry I even considered standing against your intelllect good, no, *great *sir.

Reactions: Funny 8 | Winner 1


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## Vivo Diez (Jul 20, 2021)

Conxc said:


> @Vivo Diez You win dude lmfao. You are incapable of even a slither of critical (and I wouldn’t even call it critical) thinking and my patience isn’t what it used to be. You win dude. I concede. You’re a fucking genius. Sorry I even considered standing against your intelllect good, no, *great *sir.


Your concession is accepted.

Can somebody check up on @Conxc ? I don't think he's in a great place



Furinji Saiga said:


> Yeah, so its pointless to assume is the black haki lightning as a confirmation of kings haki.
> 
> It is way too inconsistent. It could just be CoA haki, we cannot tell.


Sure.

My overall point is that Luffy managed to stand up to Kaido in base after he discovered true properties of CoC, the one attack by Zoro that left a permanent scar on Kaido was imbued with CoC, Oden had CoC.

Whether it's just because it's an augment of the physical attack power or additional properties of it being _haki _and how that interacts with devil fruits or some other property is up for debate.Considering we've already seen it able to damage without physical contact it clearly has properties outside of just a straight up augment, which @Conxc was claiming it was without entertaining any other possibility.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Vivo Diez (Sep 4, 2021)

Well, this hasn't aged well for a lot of people in the thread

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mercurial (Sep 4, 2021)

Is clashing with someone suddenly better than wounding and scarring him?

Dunno. Asking for a friend.

Reactions: Like 4 | Funny 1


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## Dunno (Sep 4, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> Well, this hasn't aged well for a lot of people in the thread


I feel ya. But I'm sure Yamato will get some better feats eventually.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Eustathios (Sep 4, 2021)

Still Zoro

Reactions: Like 1


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## Yumi Zoro (Sep 4, 2021)

Zoro

Reactions: Like 1


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## Perrin (Sep 4, 2021)

Is yamato a wolf or a dog?


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## TheWiggian (Sep 4, 2021)

Perrin said:


> Is yamato a wolf or a dog?



A mutt.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Eustathios (Sep 4, 2021)

Perrin said:


> Is yamato a wolf or a dog?


As much of a dog as Luffy is a monkey or Marco a pheasant


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## Perrin (Sep 4, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> As much of a dog as Luffy is a monkey or Marco a pheasant


Bizarre analogy on a number of levels


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## AmitDS (Sep 4, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> As much of a dog as Luffy is a monkey or Marco a pheasant


Marco actually can be seen as a pheasant since he is an amalgamation of various fire birds even though he is probably supposed to be a Western Phoenix. He possesses traits of the fenghuang ie the ' Chinese Pheonix' which is depicted as a pheasant at times. He even has a fenghuang attack ie his Fenghuang Seal. He also physically looks like a Chinese Phoenix with his plumage and long neck etc.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Eustathios (Sep 4, 2021)

AmitDS said:


> Marco actually can be seen as a pheasant since he is an amalgamation of various fire birds even though he is probably supposed to be a Western Phoenix. He possesses traits of the fenghuang ie the ' Chinese Pheonix' which is depicted as a pheasant at times. He even has a fenghuang attack ie his Fenghuang Seal. He also physically looks like a Chinese Phoenix with his plumage and long neck etc.



I found this very interesting read on the Japanese Phoenix, which can easily be applied to Marco's role or Wano's overall themes:



> According to legend (mostly from China), the Hō-ō appears very rarely, and *only to mark the beginning of a new era -- the birth of a virtuous ruler, for example.* In other traditions, the Hō-ō appears only in peaceful and prosperous times (nesting, it is said, in paulownia trees), and *hides itself when there is trouble*. *As the herald of a new age, the Hō-ō decends from heaven to earth to do good deeds, and then it returns to its celestial abode to await a new era. It is both a symbol of peace (when the bird appears) and a symbol of disharmony (when the bird disappears)*. *In China, early artifacts show the Phoenix (female) as intimately associated with the  (male) -- the two are portrayed either as mortal enemies or as blissful lovers. When shown together, the two symbolize both conflict and wedded bliss, and are a common design motif even today in many parts of Asia *(see below).


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Sep 4, 2021)

You all may be retards but I respect how in lock step you are with each other, zoro brigade

Reactions: Funny 3


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## AmitDS (Sep 4, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> I found this very interesting read on the Japanese Phoenix, which can easily be applied to Marco's role or Wano's overall themes:


This could actually align with his future role too since doesn't necessarily have to fight like Luffy does. He can simply support him with his healing, with minor attacks in crucial moments or something else. It's so obvious that the Momotaro parallel is being used that it would actually be surprising if Marco doesn't help Yamato, Luffy and Momo in some way which is also possible.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Eustathios (Sep 4, 2021)

AmitDS said:


> This could actually align with his future role too since doesn't necessarily have to fight like Luffy does. He can simply support him with his healing, with minor attacks in crucial moments or something else. It's so obvious that the Momotaro parallel is being used that it would actually be surprising if Marco doesn't help Yamato, Luffy and Momo in some way which is also possible.


True, I think at least some of those themes are present in Wano. The birth of a new era/ruler for example; Marco has been all about the new generation taking over and him facilitating that (flying Zoro, the stars intro scene). Looks like the Phoenix and Dragon are either mortal enemies or lovers, so that could be another hint at the Momotaro story being fulfilled on the RT with Momo's aging too.


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## DarkRasengan (Sep 4, 2021)

Yamato high diff


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## Zero (Sep 5, 2021)

Blocking thunder Bagua without being completely overpowered is extremely impressive.

I'd put Yamato over Zoro currently.


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## Ssjloke (Sep 5, 2021)

Yamato obviously


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## Brian (Sep 5, 2021)

Did I have this on high diff for Zoro, I'll change it to high-extreme diff in Zoro's favor


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## KBD (Sep 5, 2021)

I have a feeling this will turn into a sequence of THIS DIDNT AGE WELL, ZORO FANS!!! - THIS DIDNT AGE WELL, YAMATO FANS! - Then Zoro again and Yamato and everyone in this thread will start looking more and more like clowns as we keep juggling around on our unicycles.

Due to the risk of Zoro fans eventually replacing one of the balls with a shot put engraved with the letters ZKK, I will refrain from making fun of the grandmaster.


*Spoiler*: __ 



But Yamato extreme diffs for now

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Conxc (Sep 5, 2021)

Yamato, starting fight fresh, knowing that she’d need ACoC and able to control it:
-surviving

Zoro managed to injure Kaido before even accidentally using ACoC. Then he ranked the initial hit of Hakai, then managed to accidentally use ACoC to permanately scar Kaido with all of his bones broken. Then he survived a Thunder Bagua to the face from hybrid Kaido when pre Udon Luffy was one tapped at full health in that state.

Zoro showed both better endurance and offense than Yamato has shown against Kaido *so far*.


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## xmysticgohanx (Sep 5, 2021)

Zoro is weaker but he will master advanced coc in the fight and become stronger than her

Reactions: Agree 1


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## killfox (Sep 5, 2021)

If memory serves me even Luffy didn’t counter a Thunder Bagua equally. He DID however clash with Kaidos unNamed club attack.

Currently she seems stronger than Luffy AND she has CoC armament

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Eustathios (Sep 5, 2021)

Luffy is always the strongest fighter on the good guys side, in every arc where the SHs are protagonists. Cmon now this is getting out of hand. People can argue on where she stands in relation to Sanji and Zoro, but she's certainly not above Luffy. Not after his AdCoC powerup at least.


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## killfox (Sep 5, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> Luffy is always the strongest fighter on the good guys side, in every arc where the SHs are protagonists. Cmon now this is getting out of hand. People can argue on where she stands in relation to Sanji and Zoro, but she's certainly not above Luffy. Not after his AdCoC powerup at least.


You can say that but feats speak for themselves. Maybe Luffy will be stronger when he “comes back” but based on current feats Yamato actually clashed with a named attack from Kaido and seemed equal in power. A feat Luffy literally hasn’t done on on panel. (Clashing with an unnamed club swing isn’t the same)


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## trance (Sep 5, 2021)

if (which is a big if) she's stronger than luffy atm, she certainly won't be once his final zenkai kicks in

and there's no way oda's gonna disrupt the M3, hence why she's not gonna be a SH


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## killfox (Sep 5, 2021)

trance said:


> if (which is a big if) she's stronger than luffy atm, she certainly won't be once his final zenkai kicks in
> 
> and there's no way oda's gonna disrupt the M3, hence why she's not gonna be a SH


Jinbei already disrupts the M3 in my opinion. He still has feats against yonkou and the current fleet admiral. They even kept the consistency and had Who’s Who break his finger on Jinbeis haki (this feat is consistent with Jinbeis extreme defense. Aka him being able to stop Akainu and Big Mom)

it didn’t even seem like Jinbeis fight was any more than a mid  diff.

Remember when Sanji and Luffy argued in the hall way?
Sanji:I can take them down in 10 seconds!
Luffy: I can take them down in 3 seconds!

Jinbei throws a single punch destroys a wall and one shots all of the enemies they were talking about. After that Sanji got extremely salty.

Oda knows what he’s doing with Jinbei


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## Eustathios (Sep 5, 2021)

killfox said:


> You can say that but feats speak for themselves. Maybe Luffy will be stronger when he “comes back” but based on current feats Yamato actually clashed with a named attack from Kaido and seemed equal in power. A feat Luffy literally hasn’t done on on panel. (Clashing with an unnamed club swing isn’t the same)


It was a clash. A good feat, but let's not exaggerate here. Marco kicked through an Admiral's guard and sent him flying. Does that mean he's still above Luffy at this point? Not to mention Kaido isn't as fresh as when he fought the Supernovas or Luffy.


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## trance (Sep 5, 2021)

killfox said:


> Jinbei already disrupts the M3 in my opinion


he did back in FI

hell, he may have been even stronger than luffy hence why oda had him forgo joining then and there 

now tho? nah. sanji is fighting queen, who's who's noticeable superior, and will probably beat him with strength to spare

Reactions: Like 1


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## Conxc (Sep 5, 2021)

trance said:


> he did back in FI
> 
> hell, he may have been even stronger than luffy hence why oda had him forgo joining then and there
> 
> now tho? nah. sanji is fighting queen, who's who's noticeable superior, and will probably beat him with strength to spare


That’s 100% just off the strength of who he’s fighting ATM but feats and portrayal *heavily *favor Jinbe. He’s got *several *impressive feats against top tiers.

But if you ignore all of Jinbe’s feats up to now, then I guess Sanji is stronger.


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Sep 5, 2021)

Sanji is stronger than Jinbei wtf


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## killfox (Sep 6, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> It was a clash. A good feat, but let's not exaggerate here. Marco kicked through an Admiral's guard and sent him flying. Does that mean he's still above Luffy at this point? Not to mention Kaido isn't as fresh as when he fought the Supernovas or Luffy.


Are you really comparing Marco kicking Kizaru away to  Kaidos daughter blocking a named attack with her own? A feat Luffy hasn’t even performed surely these are not on the same level. If you know anything about naked attacks you know why.


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## killfox (Sep 6, 2021)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> Sanji is stronger than Jinbei wtf


What feats does Sanji have comparable to stopping Akainu in his tracks or blowing BM away? I’ll wait


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## Mihawk (Sep 6, 2021)

Their feats are comparable honestly. Both have shown flashy attacks that clash with Kaido.

Yamato’s edge comes from the fact that it’s a 1v1 situation and she’s lasted longer than I thought she would.

Zoro’s edge comes from the fact that he didn’t just block or clash with Kaido, but inflicted actual damage and permanent scars.

It’s probably going either way, but considering how Zoro always comes out on top vs anyone except Luffy, I’ll probably bet on him.

Both are impressive and have a ton of potential for growth in this very arc. For now, Yamato might win; but after busting King’s ass I’m pretty sure Zoro takes this 10/10 times.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Sep 6, 2021)

killfox said:


> What feats does Sanji have comparable to stopping Akainu in his tracks or blowing BM away? I’ll wait


Hmmm you’re not being disingenuous at all


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## Beast (Sep 6, 2021)

killfox said:


> What feats does Sanji have comparable to stopping Akainu in his tracks or blowing BM away? I’ll wait


Stopping Akainu in his tracks?
Damn two piece sounds like shit if Jinbe can fully stop Akainu. 
And  second one is low tier feat, Heck Kidd did it to make an entrance

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Draffut (Sep 6, 2021)

Draco Bolton said:


> Zoro high diff.
> 
> IMO current Zoro (before his "Wano big fights") with Enma is YC2. And for now I rate Yamato as a YC3.



Jack got stomped by the two minks there.  Kaido easily beat every scabbard at once without hybrid.

I don't see how Yamato, which is matching hybrid solo, is at Jack level.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Sep 6, 2021)

Draffut said:


> Jack got stomped by the two minks there.  Kaido easily beat every scabbard at once without hybrid.
> 
> I don't see how Yamato, which is matching hybrid solo, is at Jack level.


That post is from over a year ago

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## killfox (Sep 6, 2021)

trance said:


> he did back in FI
> 
> hell, he may have been even stronger than luffy hence why oda had him forgo joining then and there
> 
> now tho? nah. sanji is fighting queen, who's who's noticeable superior, and will probably beat him with strength to spare


Sanji with the raid suit couldn t put down Page 1. Jinbei beat a stronger Flying 6 member mid diff.


Beast said:


> Stopping Akainu in his tracks?
> Damn two piece sounds like shit if Jinbe can fully stop Akainu.


Did you forget Akainu was about to kill Luffy and Jinbei was like “naw” and blocked his magma fist with his bare hands?

Did Jinbei not literally stop Akainu from reaching his goal? Yea I think your smoking if you don’t remember that. The anime shows how crazy the feat is. Start at :39


So again I’ll ask you in the entire manga of one piece does Sanji have a feat compatible to this?




Beast said:


> And  second one is low tier feat, Heck Kidd did it to make an entrance


You talking about his repel?
Jinbei actually blocked an attack from BMs df, then blitzed her snd blew her away with fisherman karate. That’s more than any of the roof top 5 did against her. Jinbei also flipped and threw her mid attack on a different occasion.

Sanjis strongest enemy so far has been Page One


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## The crazy hacker (Sep 6, 2021)

Yamato based on feats is stronger than Kaido-battle Luffy and Zoro and maybe even Marco but current Luffy and Zoro are stronger.


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## Lmao (Sep 6, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> People can argue on where she stands in relation to Sanji and Zoro, but she's certainly not above Luffy.


How is she not above Luffy though? I get he is the main character but we literally *saw on panel* Luffy going against hybrid Kaido 1v1 and .

Yamato has been fighting hybrid Kaido for almost 10 chapters now and not only she hasn't lost yet but she's actually shown matching Kaido's Bagua with her own. Two people fight the same guy, one loses relatively quickly while the other is still fighting and matching named attacks yet the one who lost is stronger 

Until Kaido reduces Yamato to the same state he did Luffy there should be no doubt who is stronger, it truly baffles me how this is an argument at all. Newer chapters may change that and we will accept it once it happens but as of chapter 1024 Yamato is irrefutably > Luffy.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 2


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## Eustathios (Sep 6, 2021)

Lmao said:


> How is she not above Luffy though? I get he is the main character but we literally *saw on panel* Luffy going against hybrid Kaido 1v1 and .
> 
> Yamato has been fighting hybrid Kaido for almost 10 chapters now and not only she hasn't lost yet but she's actually shown matching Kaido's Bagua with her own. Two people fight the same guy, one loses relatively quickly while the other is still fighting and matching named attacks yet the one who lost is stronger
> 
> Until Kaido reduces Yamato to the same state he did Luffy there should be no doubt who is stronger, it truly baffles me how this is an argument at all. Newer chapters may change that and we will accept it once it happens but as of chapter 1024 Yamato is irrefutably > Luffy.


Luffy didn't go all out seeing how he still had G4. Kaido isn't as fresh.


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## Lmao (Sep 6, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> Luffy didn't go all out seeing how he still had G4. Kaido isn't as fresh.


Surely you're not suggesting Luffy decided to fight hybrid Kaido in base when he had to use G4 to fight Ulti, I know you're better than this.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Eustathios (Sep 6, 2021)

Lmao said:


> Surely you're not suggesting Luffy decided to fight hybrid Kaido in base when he had to use G4 to fight Ulti, I know you're better than this.


Luffy unlocked AdCoC. Whether Yamato was stronger than him or not, I don't know. All I can say is that Luffy will be the strongest member of the alliance by the time the final showdown against Kaido comes. 

I have Luffy, Marco, Zoro, Yamato all in the same ballpark.


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## Lmao (Sep 6, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> All I can say is that Luffy will be the strongest member of the alliance by the time the final showdown against Kaido comes.


No disagreement here, he's definitely getting a Katakuri-esque powerup either in the form of a new gear form or just better use of advanced haki, it is inevitable he's the main character.

My view on this is based on recent events and like I mentioned it's subject to change with upcoming chapters and when it happens it happens, she'll get placed accordingly.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Rp4lyf (Sep 9, 2021)

Lmao said:


> Surely you're not suggesting Luffy decided to fight hybrid Kaido in base when he had to use G4 to fight Ulti, I know you're better than this.


Yes, that was actaully proven in chapter 1009, where  Base Luffy WITHOUT ADV COC had Kaido dodging his attacks. 

Kaido does not want to taks Luffy's attacks.

Luffy was playing around with Ulti and Page one, not using Adv CoA on them.


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## VileNotice (Sep 9, 2021)

AmitDS said:


> Marco actually can be seen as a pheasant since he is an amalgamation of various fire birds even though he is probably supposed to be a Western Phoenix. He possesses traits of the fenghuang ie the ' Chinese Pheonix' which is depicted as a pheasant at times. He even has a fenghuang attack ie his Fenghuang Seal. He also physically looks like a Chinese Phoenix with his plumage and long neck etc.


All mythical zoans are eastern creatures, so he’s a Chinese Phoenix.


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## AmitDS (Sep 9, 2021)

VileNotice said:


> All mythical zoans are eastern creatures, so he’s a Chinese Phoenix.


Where was it stated that it can only be Eastern myth? And IIRC him healing and regenerating is similar to the Western Phoenix while the wiki states that the kanji written for the "phoenix" in his DF, read _fushichō_ (不死鳥, _fushichō) _meaning "immortal bird", a common Japanese title for the Western phoenix. This makes sense since if he his fruit was exclusively Eastern it would be called   (鳳凰) (Chinese) or  Japanese  (鳳凰) instead of  _fushichō (不死鳥, fushichō). _His attacks, design etc. show he's an amalgamation of various 'fire birds' or w/e but he's literally named after the Western Phoenix.


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## Kroczilla (Sep 10, 2021)

Before, I was half heartedly on Yamato's side. Now, after the  recent chapter, I see no reason why she doesn't take this decisively.


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## kozuki (Sep 10, 2021)

Yamato. In the future, probably Zoro. Depends on what Oda has planned for Yamato once this is over.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Neutral 1


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## Yumi Zoro (Sep 10, 2021)

Zoro show Yamato what a Real AP look like.


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Sep 28, 2021)

Why isn't there a poll for such a major discussion..?
Anyways Yamato being stronger than Zoro is a fact.

Zoro would never be able to 1v1 Kaido like Yamato did.

Reactions: Optimistic 2


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## Ren. (Sep 28, 2021)

Ebitan said:


> Why isn't there a poll for such a major discussion..?


Because it would be a popularity contest.

And Zoro wins even against Luffy in ZoroJackson aka OL.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Creative 1


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## TheWiggian (Sep 28, 2021)

Zoro too stronk. But Yamato gives him a good fight before succumbing similiar to Sanji.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## bil02 (Jan 10, 2022)

The strength and duration of their Haoshoku coating is going to be determinant.
Zoro can not go all out with Enma for a huge amount of time,nobody can.
Yamato has her ice mirror defense that can help against Zoro's high end attacks while Zoro can't afford to take Yamato's hits carelessly.

I think Zoro extreme diffs as he has the stronger finisher atm but yeah they are really close.


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## Tenma (Jan 10, 2022)

when the thread was made, yamato decisively

currently zoro should edge it

Reactions: Like 2


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## Mercurial (Jan 10, 2022)

They are in the same tier (Low Top Tier: weaker than full fledged top tiers, but stronger than any YC1 tier) but Zoro is a good deal stronger, thanks to his far greater attacking power.

Zoro wins high diff against Yamato. But not very high diff, let alone not extreme diff.

Current Zoro > Yamato > Pre Adv CoC Zoro

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Kroczilla (Jan 10, 2022)

Still Yamato. She has far better mastery of AdCoc and unlike Zoro, can spam its use for a much longer period. Also holding off Hybrid Kaido for a good length of time is the superior feat imho

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Firo (Jan 10, 2022)

I think Zoro takes it now tbh.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gledania (Jan 10, 2022)

Could go either way but at soon as she join the crew as an official member zoro takes it. Don't try to think much about it , this is how oda see things.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Conxc (Jan 10, 2022)

Zoro


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## bil02 (Jan 10, 2022)

Kroczilla said:


> Still Yamato. She has far better mastery of AdCoc and unlike Zoro, can spam its use for a much longer period. Also holding off Hybrid Kaido for a good length of time is the superior feat imho


Yamato definitely has more experience with Haoshoku coating but better mastery? This was never implied nor stated anywhere.
Both coat their attacks with Haoshoku,it ends there.

Zoro can't spam its use for a long period of time because Zoro goes all out with his Haoshoku to stop Enma from draining him,no character can go all out with their haki forever(Yamato included).
This drawback can also be a gift for Zoro as he can end Yamato anytime he lands a huge finisher on her.

Agree on your last point,Yamato has the superior feat but we have objectively no way of knowing current Zoro can't stall Kaido to the same extent or better too.


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## Beast (Jan 10, 2022)

Gledonux said:


> Could go either way but at soon as she join the crew as an official member zoro takes it. Don't try to think much about it , this is how oda see things.


And once she doesn’t join, she stays stronger then Zoro?

will the Z boys be able to swallow the pill that Yamato might not join and just stays stronger then Zoro outside the crew


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## Kroczilla (Jan 10, 2022)

bil02 said:


> Yamato definitely has more experience with Haoshoku coating but better mastery? This was never implied nor stated anywhere.
> Both coat their attacks with Haoshoku,it ends there.
> 
> Zoro can't spam its use for a long period of time because Zoro goes all out with his Haoshoku to stop Enma from draining him,no character can go all out with their haki forever(Yamato included).
> ...


Greater experience = greater mastery in my books save for exceptional circumstances which doesn't appear to be the case here 

No character can spam any form of haki forever, but Yamato can use hers a good deal longer than Zoro can and there's no indication that she was even close to her limits unlike Zoro who straight up fainted after a few minutes. 

I don't doubt Zoro's lethality, but I doubt he's getting past the guard of someone with equally potent haki + ice shield technique

I doubt current Zoro can stall Kaido to the same extent because I just saw him faint in exhaustion after fighting Kaido's subordinate for a shorter period than the time in which Yamato held off Kaido (and again for emphasis, she's not close to being done herself)

Reactions: Like 2


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## TheWiggian (Jan 10, 2022)

Still Zoro, before or after AdvCotC

Reactions: Winner 4


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## Gledania (Jan 10, 2022)

Beast said:


> And once she doesn’t join, she stays stronger then Zoro?
> 
> will the Z boys be able to swallow the pill that Yamato might not join and just stays stronger then Zoro outside the crew


I don't know.

I don't care.

the only thing I'm sure is by the time we reach EoS Zoro and sanji will be > her and face admiral level opponents.

And I like Yamato

Reactions: GODA 1


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## Conxc (Jan 10, 2022)

Yamato lacks the AP necessary to put Zoro down lol. She’s durable as fuck, but so is Zoro with much more lethality. If we look exclusively at AdCoC since we’re on the topic, Zoro’s AdCoC Asura did more in a single strike than Yama managed to do in a prolonged fight, which truly was just a few minutes. Zoro was near death there as well. Yamato might be able to sustain AdCoC use for longer, but Zoro is a lot more lethal with it. He can afford to take blows from her. Can’t say the same for her.


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## Van Basten (Jan 10, 2022)

It was and remains Zoro.

Reactions: Winner 4


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## DarkRasengan (Jan 10, 2022)

Still yamato, clashing with kaidou and holding her own in a 1 on 1 vs almost dying to kaidos subordinate, yamato is superior in every way except maybe attack power and even thats close

Reactions: Tier Specialist 2


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## bil02 (Jan 11, 2022)

Kroczilla said:


> Greater experience = greater mastery in my books save for exceptional circumstances which doesn't appear to be the case here


Not really..greater mastery to me means she can do things with her coc that Zoro can't.
If anything Zoro was the one who showed Haoshoku barriers with his coc,not Yamato.

Luffy has better mastery than Zoro and Yamato because his Coc helped him split the sky,yet Yamato has more experience with it than Luffy.

If Yamato did show better Coc coating mastery than Zoro,feel free to show me where.


Kroczilla said:


> No character can spam any form of haki forever, but Yamato can use hers a good deal longer than Zoro can and there's no indication that she was even close to her limits unlike Zoro who straight up fainted after a few minutes.


Lol do you know why Zoro exhausts himself so fast with his Coc?
In order to use Enma normally,Zoro needs to go all out with his haki to appease the sword,this is literally what was said in the manga.

Has Yamato shown she can go all out with her Coc for a longer period of time than Zoro?
No because she uses hers normally,so I don't see where these comparisons are coming from.

Also Zoro fights don't last forever,that's why in his 2 battles this raid(Rooftop and King fight),he has placed an accent over using his ultimate finishers before he runs out of stamina.


Kroczilla said:


> I don't doubt Zoro's lethality, but I doubt he's getting past the guard of someone with equally potent haki + ice shield technique


The fight is going to end one way or the other when Zoro decides to use his ultimate to avoid running out of stamina.
At that point,we are going to have an haki clash like the one between Yamato and Kaido.
The one with the greater attack power and haki between Zoro and Yamato wins the fight imo.


Kroczilla said:


> I doubt current Zoro can stall Kaido to the same extent because I just saw him faint in exhaustion after fighting Kaido's subordinate for a shorter period than the time in which Yamato held off Kaido (and again for emphasis, she's not close to being done herself)


I agree Zoro can't fight that long since Enma makes him go all out with his haki.
The difference between Zoro and Yamato is,Zoro will be inflicting much more damage with his attacks to Kaido than Yamato did,the scar inflicted with Ashura also shows this.

Current Zoro scars Kaido even more badly.

The end point of a fight is how much damage you inflict at the end imo,not how much time you stall while inflicting minimal damage.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## bil02 (Jan 11, 2022)

Beast said:


> And once she doesn’t join, she stays stronger then Zoro?
> 
> will the Z boys be able to swallow the pill that Yamato might not join and just stays stronger then Zoro outside the crew


Do you think if Yamato doesn't join shs,kid is weaker than her?

I mean that wAY,she ain't luffy's subordinate so Kid being luffy's rival doesn't apply to her.


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## Beast (Jan 11, 2022)

bil02 said:


> Do you think if Yamato doesn't join shs,kid is weaker than her?
> 
> I mean that wAY,she ain't luffy's subordinate so Kid being luffy's rival doesn't apply to her.


What does Yamatos joining the crew have to do with Kidd?
kidd is a straw hat now?

you sound about as smart as fish, so ima just let this go, I can see what you are tryna do but you sound like some falling rocks, loud but useless.
Kidd being a rival to Luffy isn’t effect by others in his crew or outside of it since… you do know what a rival is right?

Go back to arguing someone else of your level about Zoro being nerfed by Enma for going all out.

Reactions: Like 1


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## bil02 (Jan 11, 2022)

Beast said:


> What does Yamatos joining the crew have to do with Kidd?
> kidd is a straw hat now?
> 
> you sound about as smart as fish, so ima just let this go, I can see what you are tryna do but you sound like some falling rocks, loud but useless.
> ...


Lol excuse me for thinking for once you could actually debate normally rather than acting like the angry angsty 24-year-old kid you are.

 yep I'm out of this discussion lmao.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Kroczilla (Jan 11, 2022)

bil02 said:


> Not really..greater mastery to me means she can do things with her coc that Zoro can't.
> If anything Zoro was the one who showed Haoshoku barriers with his coc,not Yamato


AdCoc is an extension of barrier haki though as shown in Luffy's flashbacks when he understood the technique. Yamato has better mastery than Zoro by virtue of the fact that she can use the technique freely without being forced by a sword or put at death's door.


bil02 said:


> Luffy has better mastery than Zoro and Yamato because his Coc helped him split the sky,yet Yamato has more experience with it than Luffy.



Just gonna refer to my original quote 



Kroczilla said:


> Greater experience = greater mastery in my books *save for exceptional circumstances* which doesn't appear to be the case here


Luffy splitting the skies sounds pretty exceptional, don't you think?


bil02 said:


> If Yamato did show better Coc coating mastery than Zoro,feel free to show me where.


Refer to my posts


bil02 said:


> Lol do you know why Zoro exhausts himself so fast with his Coc?
> In order to use Enma normally,Zoro needs to go all out with his haki to


None of this is news to me nor has any bearing on the fact that in this fight, Zoro is on a very short timer while Yamato isn't.


bil02 said:


> Has Yamato shown she can go all out with her Coc for a longer period of time than Zoro?
> No because she uses hers normally,so I don't see where these comparisons are coming from.


I think this is where mastery comes in. She can control her flow and still keep up with a Yonko for a good length of time without exhausting herself. Your are right, there isn't any room for comparison.


bil02 said:


> Also Zoro fights don't last forever,that's why in his 2 battles this raid(Rooftop and King fight),he has placed an accent over using his ultimate finishers before he runs out of stamina.


The problem is that Yamato isn't an opponent whom he can treat like say, King. She has AdCoc herself, has shown to actively defend against incoming attacks or even counter with her's, doesn't use flames, and on top of her natural durability, has a technique that offers further protection. Kaido equally using TB as a finisher yet Yamato matched it and as decidedly far from finished.


bil02 said:


> The fight is going to end one way or the other when Zoro decides to use his ultimate to avoid running out of stamina.
> At that point,we are going to have an haki clash like the one between Yamato and Kaido.
> The one with the greater attack power and haki between Zoro and Yamato wins the fight imo.


See above. Attack power is great but Yamato has that in spades as well as enhanced defensive ability and haki of a similar quality. You seem to think this will end similar to how Zoro Vs King ended. That's not happening here.


bil02 said:


> I agree Zoro can't fight that long since Enma makes him go all out with his haki.
> The difference between Zoro and Yamato is,Zoro will be inflicting much more damage with his attacks to Kaido than Yamato did,the scar inflicted with Ashura also shows this.


The thing though is that Yamato actively uses her club to block attacks and short of Zoro straight up overwhelming her defense completely (which I don't see happening) he ain't landing a lot of clean hits like he did against Kaido. Also unlike him, Yamato can afford to drag the fight out without issue. 


bil02 said:


> Current Zoro scars Kaido even more badly.


That remains to be seen. The scar was AdCoc + Zoro's ultimate finisher afterall


bil02 said:


> The end point of a fight is how much damage you inflict at the end imo,not how much time you stall while inflicting minimal damage.


Not true. Both are relevant. The difference is Zoro's AP isn't overwhelming someone who straight up matched a TB from Kaido. He would be hard-pressed to inflict any meaningful damage in the short time he has left, especially against someone who could stop Kaido on his tracks in base.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Jan 11, 2022)

bil02 said:


> Lol excuse me for thinking for once you could actually debate normally rather than acting like the angry angsty 24-year-old kid you are.
> 
> yep I'm out of this discussion lmao.



debate what normally?

you tried to bring up kidd as if he has anything to do with this thread. Keep on crying man, you complain on every thread about Kidd and law, I couldn’t give a darn tbh. Just next time, come with a better strategy to bait.


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## bil02 (Jan 11, 2022)

Kroczilla said:


> AdCoc is an extension of barrier haki though as shown in Luffy's flashbacks when he understood the technique. Yamato has better mastery than Zoro by virtue of the fact that she can use the technique freely without being forced by a sword or put at death's door.


Did Yamato show any Coc barrier though?
If Zoro didn't show it vs king,I wouldn't be giving him that ability for free.

Infact Zoro didn't show any barrier coc in his Ashura vs Kaido and from Kaido's words,there is implication of Haoshoku coating in that attack.


Kroczilla said:


> That remains to be seen. The scar was AdCoc + Zoro's ultimate finisher afterall


Zoro has a new finisher though,since he got stronger with Haoshoku coating,his new finisher should be even more deadly on Kaido,logically speaking.


Kroczilla said:


> Not true. Both are relevant. The difference is Zoro's AP isn't overwhelming someone who straight up matched a TB from Kaido


Depends on where you have thunder Bagua in the Ap spectrum,Zoro's Hiryuu Kaen that Big Mom told Kaido to dodge should already be in Yamato's thunder Bagua level or even better by hype.

Zoro's new finisher who has even more hype should be above what Yamato can dish out but yeah that's only my opinion. 


Kroczilla said:


> He would be hard-pressed to inflict any meaningful damage in the short time he has left, especially against someone who could stop Kaido on his tracks in base.


Like I told you before,any time Zoro senses he has little time left,he always goes for his ultimate.
If 1010 Ashura could leave a scar on Hybrid Kaido,Zoro's new finisher Ko's the less durable Yamato(with ice mirror defense) whenever it lands on her,logically speaking.


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## bil02 (Jan 11, 2022)

Beast said:


> debate what normally?
> 
> you tried to bring up kidd as if he has anything to do with this thread. Keep on crying man, you complain on every thread about Kidd and law, I couldn’t give a darn tbh. Just next time, come with a better strategy to bait.


Lol if you were capable of using your brain,you would realise I only brought up kid because 

1) You think Kid is above all of Luffy's subordinates 
2)You are a kid fan and thus will be more willing to understand my point than if I took Law for example. 

Yamato has better feats than both Law and kid and her feats are closer to luffy's so if someone came and Said Yamato not joining the SHs assures her to be stronger than kid,pretty sure you would be objecting to it.

That's the simple line of thinking of a Zoro fan

But nope,you had to get overly aggressive over a simple example as if you were a 15 year old teen who is getting overwhelmed by his hormones.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Beast (Jan 11, 2022)

bil02 said:


> Lol if you were capable of using your brain,you would realise I only brought up kid because
> 
> 1) You think Kid is above all of Luffy's subordinates
> 2)You are a kid fan and thus will be more willing to understand my point than if I took Law for example.
> ...


yeah, buddy this is embarrassing… maybe keep your personal feelings to yourself, you’re reaching as hard as Luffy.

I will say it again for you on last time, Yamato and Zoro have nothing to do with Kidd, nothing. So, maybe next time use your words and the manga to back up your points, not using a character someone likes with illogical reasoning as if I would just agree. Your point is illogical and baseless, you haven’t put no thought in your post to bait me and thus, I spoke to you as I should… like an idiot trying to bait.

it’s clear as day, you are hurt by me calling you all Z boys and you should be hurt because you are no better then that.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Jan 11, 2022)

Why isn't there a poll for this?

OT: Yamato is still stronger because she 1v1'ed Kaido for a decent amount of time which is a superior feat to defeating a YC1.


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## bil02 (Jan 11, 2022)

Beast said:


> yeah, buddy this is embarrassing… maybe keep your personal feelings to yourself, you’re reaching as hard as Luffy.
> 
> I will say it again for you on last time, Yamato and Zoro have nothing to do with Kidd, nothing. So, maybe next time use your words and the manga to back up your points, not using a character someone likes with illogical reasoning as if I would just agree. Your point is illogical and baseless, you haven’t put no thought in your post to bait me and thus, I spoke to you as I should… like an idiot trying to bait.
> 
> it’s clear as day, you are hurt by me calling you all Z boys and you should be hurt because you are no better then that.


  

Lol I tried but instead of addressing the points and refuting them,you just act like an angry brick wall.

Okay I'll stop replying,will make both of us stop wasting our time

Reactions: Like 1


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