# Arthas, Deathwing, Illidan vs mephisto, baal, diablo



## karmaofmischief (Dec 5, 2009)

Basically a fight between the top tiers in two popular blizzard games. 

Arthas vs Baal Lord of Destruction
Illidan vs Mephisto Lord of Hatred
Deathwing vs Diablo Lord of Terror

Battle would take place in Warcraft's world.


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## ScreenXSurfer (Dec 5, 2009)

Tyrael (name?), that angel guy, created a planet. He's like mid-boss level. Any one of the three Prime Evils solo.


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## Raigen (Dec 5, 2009)

I don't recall Tyrael ever creating a planet. 
I remember playing through D2 and didn't find the Prime Evils to be all that powerful. In fact Baal had to resort to corrupting the World Stone for any kind of effect. The best I saw him do was something even mid-tier mages in WoW were easily capable of.


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## karmaofmischief (Dec 5, 2009)

ScreenXSurfer said:


> Tyrael (name?), that angel guy, created a planet. He's like mid-boss level. Any one of the three Prime Evils solo.



I dont think Tyrael ever created a planet, but in the books (which are cannon) the angel Inarius created a planet along with a few other angels and demons. But Diablo was stated to be far stronger than Inarius without the use of the worldstone.


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## Raigen (Dec 5, 2009)

Which doesn't say much since Diablo has been taken out several times by sub-par magic users and such.


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## karmaofmischief (Dec 5, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Which doesn't say much since Diablo has been taken out several times by sub-par magic users and such.


True, but there is a big difference between a warcraft character and a diablo character. Diablo characters are made out to be godlike and heros, where as the characters you are in warcraft are just footsoldiers. Plus Uber diablo, mephisto, and baal in the game are bitches to fight, even at level 99. Unless your a smiter or hammerdin.


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## Raigen (Dec 5, 2009)

uh, not really. Kinda kicked their asses. Diablo in D2 was kinda annoying with his constant running around. Besides WoW turned Diablo into a kind of a gag since you can get a chibi version of him as a pet. Besides WoW has a lot of people who seem to just start out as footsoldiers and turn into major heroes. In War of the Ancients, Jarod Shadowsong went from a guard captain in Suramar city to leading the United Forces of Kalimdor against the Burning Legion, against his will. He never believed he should be in charge, but when Ravencrest and Stareye were killed, he took the reins solely because he didn't want them all to be killed. Jarod is a natural-born leader.

Anyway, besides that, even your chars in WoW can achieve epic status and power. Hell in the beginning, Khadgar could only fire a few Arcane Missiles and then be tired before he got trained by Medihv. By lv10 players are doing better than he was. Don't underestimate how powerful WoW players can be. Sure, they may not affect the canon storyline (they're not supposed to), but they fight against the most powerful figures in the whole World!....of Warcraft.

Still at least glad Ragnaros wasn't 100% recovered when you fight him in the Molten Core, otherwise everyone would be doomed. Same goes for any fight against the Old Gods. Any one of them at full strength would rape everything, Aspects and Sargeras included.


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## Shirō Kazami (Dec 5, 2009)

Sealed Diablo possessing the Dark Wanderer = Tyrael = Inarius


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## Raigen (Dec 5, 2009)

Uh believe we just said Tyrael isn't on par with Inarus so that makes no sense. Plus kinda lame that Tyrael was having trouble with a sealed Baal.


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## karmaofmischief (Dec 5, 2009)

Well in game and lore the prime evils have som impressive feats.

Diablo: Automatically changes into anything the person fears and if they show fear he gets stronger, powerful fire/lightning spells, immortal, ect

Mephisto: Bleeds demons, has an aura that lowers all resists into the negatives, can cause intense hate within people, immortal, lightning/poison/bone skills, ect

Baal: Corruption, ice/fire skills, many types of curses, instant mana drain, immortal, ect

Also from lore, just the three of them were able to take down 1/3 of hell, which has an almost limitless amount of demons. Plus every form of the prime evils we have seen now are only them possesing people. Its stated that we havent even seen their true forms or power yet.


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## karmaofmischief (Dec 5, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Uh believe we just said Tyrael isn't on par with Inarus so that makes no sense. Plus kinda lame that Tyrael was having trouble with a sealed Baal.



Well Tyrael and Inarius are roughly the same strength, the only thing is Inarius was bound to the worldstone, thus had the power of the planet at his disposal. On Earth (santuary) he was nothing less than a God. If he wasnt on earth he'd be as strong as Tyrael and would of gotten raped by Diablo. 

Also, the only reason Tyrael was so much weaker, was that he too, was in a weakened state.


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## Raigen (Dec 5, 2009)

Far as it goes, taking down the Prime Evils involved destroying their Soul Crystals. That won't be too hard for these guys. None of the guys here fear anything. Illidan has already faced the worst there is; Sargeras. I can tell ya right now Diablo is going to get annihilated by Deathwing. The Prime Evils weren't all that impressive in D2. Maybe they'll get rezzed in D3. Besides, Illidan and Malfurion 10k years ago fought back hordes of Demons by themselves. Illidan killed them scores at a time before being empowered by Sargeras.

So, Arthas being Lich King means immortal. Illidan, Night Elf/Demon makes him immortal, and Deathwing is the Earthwarder, Aspect of the Earth, thus immortal and oldest being here, plus empowered by the Old Gods making him stronger.


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## Shirō Kazami (Dec 5, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Far as it goes, taking down the Prime Evils involved destroying their Soul Crystals.



>Implying that the soulstones are sitting around waiting to be destroyed.

Guess what, you have to actually DEFEAT them again to get to their soulstones.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 5, 2009)

marvels mephisto...?


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## Shirō Kazami (Dec 5, 2009)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> marvels mephisto...?



No, the Mephisto of Diablo II.
Such an awesome game...


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## karmaofmischief (Dec 5, 2009)

Destroying their soulstones does nothing. Destroying them will just send their souls back to hell in their real bodies. The soulstone were a tool used to trap the prime evils on earth, then the prime evils had laid out their plan and used the stones to their advantage. The only way they can probably be destroyed is by destroying their real bodies, I assume. But then again I dont think that would guarentee their demise. Plus if theyre this strong possesing a human body, its hard to imagine their power in their true forms.


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## Raigen (Dec 5, 2009)

Actually they weren't that strong when on Earth, especially if half-baked heroes could take them out. Their magic and stuff shown in the games was really, really weak. Nothing close to what was bein tossed around in Warcraft.


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## karmaofmischief (Dec 5, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Actually they weren't that strong when on Earth, especially if half-baked heroes could take them out. Their magic and stuff shown in the games was really, really weak. Nothing close to what was bein tossed around in Warcraft.




You cant really scale the games that way. If so I could just say heros in Diablo are way stonger than any warcraft character because they can wipe out hundreds of demons in an instant. Not only that but specing diablo characters right, their damage can be way superior to any warcraft characters damage. Creating the right Hammerdin and one hammer can do around 30k damage. Thats just one hammer. They take little to no mana, and are spammable. Then a smiter can do anywhere from 30k to 50k dps in a single hit. WHich these attacks are spammable. Before in patch 1.09, necros were OP to the max, bonermancers back then could do roughly the same as smiters do now. But even now necros can do anywhere around 15-25k. Most aoes in warcraft are weak, and the strong spells only target one thing at a time. In diablo aoes are usually the main spells used and are powerhouses. 

And the uber trist diablo, mephisto, baal, are extremely tough to be, unless your a pally. The heros in diablo are anything but halfbaked. And to prove it, in warcraft 3, which has the same powerscaling (if not more) that WoW has. It takes a 25 man raid just to take out the Butcher, which is a miniboss in diablo.


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## ∅ (Dec 5, 2009)

Adopt a prime evil today!


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## karmaofmischief (Dec 5, 2009)

∅ said:


> Adopt a prime evil today!




Oh, I wanna adopt Baal!


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## Raigen (Dec 5, 2009)

You should really play more WoW. Their bosses would rape Diablo players. Try going against Ossirian and getting the obelisks as he moves passed cause if you don't he becomes invincible and rapes you. Or try fighting Algalon. Some of his attacks can do 60k dmg right off the bat, or do something more rape-worthy of around 600-700+k dmg.


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## karmaofmischief (Dec 5, 2009)

I do play wow, and no player on wow is as strong as a Diablo one. You cant scale the different verses just based on game mechanics, especially since Wow is a mmorpg while Diablo is an action rpg. In comparison to the games and the lore, Diablo characters are generally more powerful. Like I said, there was a special event crossover of warcraft and Diablo, where you had to defeat the Butcher, which is the first boss in Diablo 1. In warcraft it takes a 25 man raid and at least one fully leveled hero (such as Thrall, Maiev, Uther, Arthas, ect). Just think of what kind of army you would need in order to beat Lazurus, let alone a child possesed by Diablo.


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## Raigen (Dec 5, 2009)

Technically Diablo can count as a small MMO seeing as you can do the story mode online with other players, just not a lot at a time. And I don't recall any crossover. besides you should really consider how powerful WoW figures are. Quite frankly you seem to be overhyping Diablos a bit. Sure I bet the Prime Evils are quite powerful, in Hell. But on Earth they were pretty, pretty lame, and the Diablo-verse quite lacked any kind of substantial magic user aside from the "hero" who shall never be named.


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## ∅ (Dec 5, 2009)

karmaofmischief said:


> Oh, I wanna adopt Baal!


Right-click --> show picture

Proceed by copying the link and add it in your signature.

As for this thread, try sticking to the lore and not the game mechanics.


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## Raigen (Dec 5, 2009)

Diablo, you're shorter than a Gnome!
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcTHSBbqMlM[/YOUTUBE]


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## Darklyre (Dec 5, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Technically Diablo can count as a small MMO seeing as you can do the story mode online with other players, just not a lot at a time. And I don't recall any crossover. besides you should really consider how powerful WoW figures are. Quite frankly you seem to be overhyping Diablos a bit. Sure I bet the Prime Evils are quite powerful, in Hell. But on Earth they were pretty, pretty lame, and the Diablo-verse quite lacked any kind of substantial magic user aside from the "hero" who shall never be named.



Lol. No good magic users in Diablo?

Horazon created the Arcane Sanctuary, which comprises its own pocket dimension where physics gets raped in the ass like an MC Escher painting. The Sorcerer from Diablo I killed him like a red-headed stepchild and took his place.

Oh, and quit using game mechanics like "60k damage" as if that means anything. If you want to bring that kind of crap in then I could say stuff like "a Chargadin who desyncs is too fast for the eye to see," "Barbarians are completely immune while in the air," or "Smiters can stunlock any boss to death at will."


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## FireEel (Dec 5, 2009)

If it's worth anything...let's just say the mere appearance of Deathwing was enough to rip the bloody world apart, causing a massive cataclysm and ravaging the continents.


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## karmaofmischief (Dec 5, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Technically Diablo can count as a small MMO seeing as you can do the story mode online with other players, just not a lot at a time. And I don't recall any crossover. besides you should really consider how powerful WoW figures are. Quite frankly you seem to be overhyping Diablos a bit. Sure I bet the Prime Evils are quite powerful, in Hell. But on Earth they were pretty, pretty lame, and the Diablo-verse quite lacked any kind of substantial magic user aside from the "hero" who shall never be named.



Well on earth they inhabited human bodies. And the powerscale is too distant to go by just game mechanics. If that were the case At level one a diablo hero can tear through tons of undead and demons at once, while a level 1 warcraft character can only take on a few boars and other level one creatures. See, its impossible to compare that way, unless you say that a warcraft boar is vastly superior to a Wendigo in diablo. Which wouldnt make sense. I'd say there was substantial magic in the game. Many different variations of it, but not as many as warcraft. Warcraft afterall is an mmo and is newer compared to diablo. Thus it has and can improve on spell work, but again thats just game mechanics.

 In the lore and books, the magic used is extremely diverse. Such as the necromancer characters can create exact replica golems of a human in an instant, can pull souls out of the realm of the dead, absorb demons into themselves, ect. A nephalim such as Rathma has demi-godlike powers. Though even his power is a joke to someone like Tyrael, Lucion, Lillith, or even Astrolgha. 

But dont think im underestimating warcraft, they have some extremely powerful beings too, i'd put them almost on even terms. But the heros of Diablo are extremely powerful. The concept of Diablo is that humans are offspring of angels and demons. Thus humans have the potential to surpass both. As has happened a few times in the lore.


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## karmaofmischief (Dec 5, 2009)

FireEel said:


> If it's worth anything...let's just say the mere appearance of Deathwing was enough to rip the bloody world apart, causing a massive cataclysm and ravaging the continents.



True, deathwing is a force to be reckoned with. But Diablo and his brothers can do the same. If Tyrael and Inarius can, they can too. There is a reason they dont though. In diablo, the angels want the humans destroyed and the demons want to control them to destroy heaven. The demons wouldnt risk destroying everything, considering humans are their trump card in their war.


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## Raigen (Dec 5, 2009)

Actually if you recall playing in Wow they do more than kill boars. Wolves, undead, kobolds, monsters, etc. Also you forget how fast you level in the beginning of the game. Not to mention that monsters in Diablo, especially the early ones, die in 1-2 hits even at lv1. You can't compare them to WoW creatures. In fact none of them, not even the bosses like Diablo, Baal and Mephisto can compete with a Raid Boss in WoW. Ragnaros has 1,140,000hp. He does several thousand dmg per hit and has AoE and he can dive to heal and smack you with elementals.

Try and think. You can't solo through WoW. There are things you can only do with a group. Diablo? No such luck there. Playing solo game is about as easy as it'll get. Do multiplayer and the levels are actually made harder to match. Course by now in WoW you can get like 10-15 lv 70's and solo through Molten Core when it took around 60 lv60's with high Fire resistance.


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## karmaofmischief (Dec 5, 2009)

Thats my point, you cant compare the characters through game mechanics, just like you cant compare creatures. They are two different games, diablo isnt an mmo. Mmo's are designed for you to have to play with other players, where as Diablo is meant to be soloable. And uber diablo has 6,600,000 hp, and depending on how many players in the game, its multiplied (by up to 8). You level up in diablo just as fast as Wow. But then again in diablo, your a complete dps class and dont need any healers or tanks anyways. As the game was designed to be soloed.


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## Raigen (Dec 5, 2009)

Actually with Necro you have your Golem so it's not just by yourself and I do think the Battle Mage has an elemental or something to help him. Either way, the 'hero' in Diablo is never actually determined nor are his/her abilities apparently described or shown to be all that powerful. And really, how can you except a Barbarian to beat these guys in Diablo? non-powered figures were felled left and right easily by Baal.

And btw, Arthas has close to 28million HP and deals 7-8k dmg per second with Remorseless Winter which is Aura damage. Nevermind Frostmourne which deals 1mil shadow dmg to everyone within 50,000 yards. Algalon has 34,860,000hp for 25-man raid and his bare-hand attacks do between 15-25k dmg. His collapsing stars do over 1mil dmg.


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## karmaofmischief (Dec 5, 2009)

Your still just comparing game mechanics. It doesnt work like that, they are completely different types of games and use game mechanics. You have to compare the powerscales and the feats provided by the individuals. If we are going by your logic, then arthas is greater than Demogorgon in Baulders gate because he has more hitpoints in WoW than Demogorgon has in Baulders gate. Which of course doesnt make any sense.

And again, if you still want to use game mechanics, you still have to take into account that the Butcher takes a raid party and a hero to take him down. And he is just a specialized overlord. Yet in Diablo one you beat him when your about level 5. Yet it takes a full 25 raid and a leveled hero to take him out in warcraft.


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## Raigen (Dec 5, 2009)

I see no Butcher in wow. There are some 'butchers', one guy in Scholomance you gotta killa but he's a 62 mini-boss. Again you're confusing the term 'hero' since none of the classes or figures you play in Diablo are heroes. I also want to get something and it'll show why the Diablo figures aren't that powerful given Earthly form.

This, as you know, is Baal when he killed that guard.

*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i1XZQC0BTo[/YOUTUBE]




A bit of flashy stuff there just to kill one guy. Archimonde took out a magical city with more finesse than that. Personally, they showed better in the Burning Crusade intro.

*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CafflnJxJAI[/YOUTUBE]


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## karmaofmischief (Dec 6, 2009)

The Butcher is in Warcraft, which is a direct reference to the first boss in diablo 1. The term hero in Warcraft is a being like Thrall, Illidan, Arthas, Uther, ect. . . In diablo hero refers to the character you are playing. In diablo lore, it takes all seven classes of characters to take down the prime evils. Even in Cains Journals it refers to all the classes working together to take them down. Its just when you play through you use one, because again, its not an mmo, its a action rpg.

Oh that guy Baal killed was just a way to demonstrate his power. Baal was just there to get a way to pass through Mt Arreat to get at the worldstone.


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## Darklyre (Dec 6, 2009)

The moment Raigen used game mechanics his argument automatically failed.

Okay, so Arthas has 28 million HP. How long does it take for him to recover from a stun? If it's more than .25 of a second, he's stunlocked to death within a minute. 75% of that 28 million HP will be gone within 5 seconds, 10 if Arthas is lucky.

By ONE Smiter. Who can get absorption for fire, ice, and lightning elements, meaning any attack using those elements only HEALS him. Oh, and he can teleport, too, if simply charging to the point of desyncing doesn't work.


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## Fenix (Dec 6, 2009)

Diablo heroes solo bosses.

WoW heroes fight bosses with big groups and help from dragons and ancient artifacts.....


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## Lucaniel (Dec 6, 2009)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> marvels mephisto...?



lol, that's what I was initially thinking.


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## Pinguinus (Dec 6, 2009)

If we are going to use the lore as a base for determining they're powerlevels then we have to keep in mind that arthas is pretty damn powerfull. 

Considering we are talking about lich king arthas, his fusion is said to be much stronger than the original parts.Empowered Nerzhul is one of those parts i'd say that he should be able to take this.

Normal Nerzhul iirc managed to break a planet apart by summoning portals to other worlds. Afterwords he was stripped of his body and in soulform trapped in a iceblock. It is said that his power grew ten thousand times (somebody find the correct numbers ), becoming pretty much a top tier.

Then he fused with arthas and as i said the fusion is supposedly more powerfull than the individual parts.

Where would this kinda of power stand in the diablo verse (i don't recall the entire diablo lore and arguing game mechanics is pretty fail imo).


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## karmaofmischief (Dec 6, 2009)

Darklyre said:


> The moment Raigen used game mechanics his argument automatically failed.
> 
> Okay, so Arthas has 28 million HP. How long does it take for him to recover from a stun? If it's more than .25 of a second, he's stunlocked to death within a minute. 75% of that 28 million HP will be gone within 5 seconds, 10 if Arthas is lucky.
> 
> By ONE Smiter. Who can get absorption for fire, ice, and lightning elements, meaning any attack using those elements only HEALS him. Oh, and he can teleport, too, if simply charging to the point of desyncing doesn't work.



Yeah there are many different ways to make overpowered characters in Diablo, especially on battlenet where its easier to get items through trades. CTA>>>>>>Frostmourn, in my opinion anyways.


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## karmaofmischief (Dec 6, 2009)

Pinguinus said:


> If we are going to use the lore as a base for determining they're powerlevels then we have to keep in mind that arthas is pretty damn powerfull.
> 
> Considering we are talking about lich king arthas, his fusion is said to be much stronger than the original parts.Empowered Nerzhul is one of those parts i'd say that he should be able to take this.
> 
> ...



Yeah game mechanic arguing neverworks. Such as Illidan is fail in the game, but in the lore, he is one impressive being. And yeah the lich king is quite a high teir. I'd say he'd be around the power of the lesser evils, such as Lucion or Lillith level. Though the demons in Diablo are a bit different from those in warcraft as they are trying to preserve the planet, to use the humans against heaven. The angels in the angris council have planet tearing abilities. So he'd be between the level of a lesser evil and a lower teir in the angris council. (Which is still quite powerful).


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## Raigen (Dec 6, 2009)

One point; Ner'zhul's power did not increase ten-thousand times. His *consciousness* was expanded 100-thousand fold, which would enable him to control the Scourge anywhere no matter the distance and basically gave him high telepathic ability, including something along the lines of corruption that the Old Gods had been known for, the whispers into the mind to get people like Arthas to do things they may not normally do.

Also, when only attains 'godly' standing in WoW, they do tend to get a bit more powerful. For one, Hakkar was not originally a god. He was a demon, lower in power than the Nathrezim and not as smart. He was the Houndmaster and his whip not only tamed Felbeasts and lightning, but every time it struck the ground a Felhound would arise, enabling him to effectively create an endless army of Felhounds. Unfortunately, when he dies, the Felbeasts he creates vanish with him. Being such a demon though, when he died his essence lingered and through a series of events and time ended up becoming the Blood God, or worshiped as such by the Trolls. This enabled him to grow in power and assume a new form.

Illidan is not bad in WoW. When BC was released, he was the baddest mutha'fuka available and it took epic 40man raid of lv70's to face him down, with help from Akama and Maiev. And that was after getting through his legions and other bosses, like one of the original Death Knights, Garon Bladefist I think his name was (something close to that). Illidan was no cakewalk in that time. Only after raiding forever, PVP'ing and getting epic Gladiator sets could you really compete, least until WotLK was released.

Also, forget the damn Butcher thing. You can't remotely try and say it took a hero to take that loser out. He has 110hp in Diablo 2, hardly worthy of a lv2 player in WoW. Nothing in comparison to Vladof the Butcher in WoW whose got 250,338hp and is a lv77 elite. Or hell, I'll go a few lower. Doctor Theolen Krastinov the Butcher, in Scholomance. 60 elite with 30,000hp. Sorry, but your Diablo Butcher ain't got a damn thing on these guys.


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## ScreenXSurfer (Dec 6, 2009)

Somebody name me the last time a WC mook mage ripped open the crust of the planet, summoned hurricanes, volcanoes, asteroids and shit.

Arthas and Illidan are fodder to fodder here. Only Deathwing will be a credible threat.


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## Raigen (Dec 6, 2009)

I did that yesterday. Seriously dude, Thrall as a Shaman creates earthquakes by stomping his foot and creating fissures. WoW mages can create lightning storms and hurricanes, giant tidal waves and mind-link hundreds of Thunderlizards at once and teleport them across miles. They rip portals into other dimensions, fuse flesh to stone, rip man and demon apart with hand gestures and much, much more. Really, how much do you actually know about WoW?


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## ScreenXSurfer (Dec 6, 2009)

Raigen said:


> I did that yesterday. Seriously dude, Thrall as a Shaman creates earthquakes by stomping his foot and creating fissures.


Not as good as a Druid, who exposes planet's mantle.



> WoW mages can create lightning storms and hurricanes, giant tidal waves and mind-link hundreds of Thunderlizards at once and teleport them across miles.


Citation or a scan of the so called lightning storms and hurricanes would be nice. Also I noticed the plural- one person can do all that in Diablo.



> They rip portals into other dimensions, fuse flesh to stone, rip man and demon apart with hand gestures and much, much more. Really, how much do you actually know about WoW?


Why the hell should I know about WoW? WoW is the stupidest setting now days and Blizzard is making a total ass out of itself with it. I'm not going to bother suffering through all the retcons. I leave that up to you. But considering you masturbate it to the nth degree in every thread, I'm going to ask for a citation for every claim you make here.

Also, all those feats in that paragraph are quite poor. Context is required.


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## Raigen (Dec 6, 2009)

Khadgar did it in Tides of Darkness. Not to mention Malfurion created flood rains in War of the Ancients that swept away hordes of demons and hills and wreaked havoc on them for miles, because he was *upset*. Warlocks quite regularly and easily summon Infernals through the sky that fall with the impact of a meteorite, and worst of all it gets back up to cause more damage since it's 'alive' and rampages.

Another note, as Krasus stated to Malfurion during his bout against Xavius; "You are a Druid, Malfurion. _The World_ is your strength."


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## Pinguinus (Dec 6, 2009)

Also please keep in mind that WoW lore is definetly not fail especially if we plan to go by lore feats. 

I agree that WoW was dumbed down to such a degree that the lore itself had to suffer by killing of all of its high tier characters by people who even when ganged up should pose a minimal threat at best.

God damn it Archimonde was a casual city buster and he got killed in a truly epic manner but his arguably more powerfull ally Kil'jaeden gets killed like a bitch later on. 

Also: "His perception, mental powers, and magical abilities expanded tremendously". So not only his consciousness expanded.

Couple more extracts : "Thus, using his psychic and necromantic powers, he was able to conquer much of Northrend. As he devoured more and more souls, he only grew in power as the individual undead under his control gave him "much needed nourishment". Thus, his powers began growing at an exponential rate; a fact that the dreadlords were well aware of."

I agree that Diablo is a powerfull verse but please don't exagerate it's levels especially going by game mechanics.


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## Raigen (Dec 6, 2009)

Yes, the Lich King's power does grow with the more souls he consumes through Frostmourne. Anyone who dies just adds to his army and their souls become trapped within the sword. It's the main reason why his power keeps growing and why the main heroes and cast of WoW don't just charge him. Also, the only things they're saying about Diablo are "Angels can do this!" and "Demons can do that!" Which doesn't make me think too highly of their mortal 'heroes' who're never mentioned nor have feats pronounced for them.

To me though it looks like Arthas is in for a big let down as with Yogg-Saron down below I fugure ye olde Death God's gonna use Arthas to free himself completely. That was basically the plan all those times before with Deathwing, the Demon Soul and the Portal over the Well of Eternity. Also, don't forget that you face Malygos in WoW too, one of the Dragon Aspects and he gets finished off by Alexstrasza, the Aspect of Life.

I'm sure this whole fight was "biggest WoW evils vs. biggest Diablo evils". Illidan is certainly powerful, more misunderstood than evil, but still not on the same level yet as figures like Archimonde and Kil'jaeden. Pitlords and Dreadlords are no match for him though. Made Magtheridon his bitch. But really, biggest evils in WoW are the Old Gods, not Arthas, Illidan and Deathwing. They're powerful evils, sure, but not the highest. Deathwing is more or less the Avatar of the Old Gods now. And thanks to Algalon pointing some things out about how powerful the Titans are, it should go without saying that the Old Gods are that much stronger than them.

Algalon;


> "I have seen worlds bathed in the Makers' flames. Their denizens fading without so much as a whimper. *Entire planetary systems born and raised in the time that it takes your mortal hearts to beat once*. Yet all throughout, my own heart, devoid of emotion... of empathy. I... have... felt... NOTHING! A million, million lives wasted. Had they all held within them your tenacity? Had they all loved life as you do?"



You want confirmation on that quote? Algalon audio quotes. 2:15 in he says this.

*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0e1cD7DJ54[/YOUTUBE]


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## karmaofmischief (Dec 6, 2009)

_Also, forget the damn Butcher thing. You can't remotely try and say it took a hero to take that loser out. He has 110hp in Diablo 2, hardly worthy of a lv2 player in WoW. Nothing in comparison to Vladof the Butcher in WoW whose got 250,338hp and is a lv77 elite. Or hell, I'll go a few lower. Doctor Theolen Krastinov the Butcher, in Scholomance. 60 elite with 30,000hp. Sorry, but your Diablo Butcher ain't got a damn thing on these guys._

Erm, your just comparing game mechanics, and the Butcher was in Diablo 1. In warcraft it still takes a huge raid group to take down the Butcher. Whehter its weaker in Diablo or not. The butcher is just a low tier Demon boss in Diablo. ANd im talking about warcraft in general. Wow is quite powered down compared to Warcraft 3. 

Pinguins: Your right, warcraft lore is a force to be reckoned with. I was just saying world of warcraft dumbed down a lot of high teir being's to be taken down by footsoldiers (which are basically what the players are).


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## karmaofmischief (Dec 6, 2009)

Also I know there are higher teirs than those ive listed in warcraft. I didnt include them because I didnt include them just as I didnt include the gods in Diablo, nor the true forms of the prime evils. Nor did I include Uldyssius or worldstone-powered Inarius. Those ive listed are a lot higher tier than the possesed diablo, mephisto and baal.


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## Pinguinus (Dec 6, 2009)

karmaofmischief said:


> Also I know there are higher teirs than those ive listed in warcraft. I didnt include them because I didnt include them just as I didnt include the gods in Diablo, nor the true forms of the prime evils. Nor did I include Uldyssius or worldstone-powered Inarius. Those ive listed are a lot higher tier than the possesed diablo, mephisto and baal.



Well if this thread is about the WoW versions of these characters then we should try measuring the power of a level 80 character in WoW first. Just becouse diablo characters have fancier animations does not make them more powerful (@ ScreenxSurfer so the druid exposes the planets mantle which then heals itself in a matter of seconds?)


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## Dexion (Dec 6, 2009)

A buffed Ragnarok Online High Wizard rapes all with a 45kdmg Storm Gust

They all get owned by Maydie anyway 
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Emu7P1yGg0k[/YOUTUBE]if's got a healer


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## Raigen (Dec 6, 2009)

However you're stating that Diablo Butcher = WoW Butcher, when that is clearly not the case and it's shown that demons and such in WoW, even sick guys like Krastinov are tougher than the Diablo Butcher. You made a baseless claim. Besides that, the other 'Butcher'. Vladof, isn't a demon. He's Vykrul, basically a giant viking. Completely different.

Also, you seemed to miss a key issue; WoW players don't take out these guys, not by themselves. Ragnaros is never actually defeated, Onyxia was killed by King Varian and he's got some freaky power. Illidan got tackled by Akama and Maiev as well and if you look up the other lore and stories on the raid boss fights you'll find that the players themselves either didn't fight alone or some other main figure came in to finish things off. And btw, as for 'footsoldiers', we're pretty damn powerful. How do you think every main figure in WoW lore got started?

Yes, doubtful any Player Names will end up in the novels, but that's just how it goes. Besides Tier 5 Mage set is practically the same stuff Medihv wears and that guy's on par with an Aspect. Hell Malfurion was using Tier 1 Druid set years ago when Illidan got released. I can tell you this; regular soldiers and such in WoW-lore don't have anything remotely close to the kind of gear WoW players have. At best soldiers of Stormwind during King Llane's rule only had enchanted long swords. WoW players are absurdly powerful compared to a number of canonfodder and figures in the lore. But as the Raid Bosses show, that ain't enough to compete with guys who're frighteningly powerful.

Fudge it, I still love Warbringer Tier 4 Warrior set. Makes'em look like the fricken Juggernaut. And do you see the weapons? Cripes you can get Grom Hellscream's axe, Gorehowl, and Illidan's weapons the Twin Blades of Azzinoth. Including Atiesh, the mystical staff owned by Medivh which reputedly held within it a tiny bit of Sargeras' essence. Legendary items are awesome. Adonisus, Reaper of Souls, a dimensional sword. Quite from weapon itself; "This blade is dimensional. It appears to be fading from this plane of existence."


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## ScreenXSurfer (Dec 6, 2009)

Raigen said:


> Khadgar did it in Tides of Darkness.


Citation, as in a quotation or a scan.



> Not to mention Malfurion created flood rains in War of the Ancients that swept away hordes of demons and hills and wreaked havoc on them for miles, because he was *upset*.


I have that trilogy, I'm sure you can tell me which pages that was on.



> Warlocks quite regularly and easily summon Infernals through the sky that fall with the impact of a meteorite,


No they don't. They create, perhaps, a hundred pound crater.



> Another note, as Krasus stated to Malfurion during his bout against Xavius; "You are a Druid, Malfurion. _The World_ is your strength."


Hyperbole.



> @ ScreenxSurfer so the druid exposes the planets mantle which then heals itself in a matter of seconds?


Obviously due to game limitations they can't make it as it would actually be. The animation just shows us how powerful the ability is.


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## Raigen (Dec 6, 2009)

ScreenXSurfer said:


> Citation, as in a quotation or a scan.


When you make an effort, I will. I've yet to see you do anything remotely close to bringing forth evidence.




ScreenXSurfer said:


> I have that trilogy, I'm sure you can tell me which pages that was on.


If you have it you should remember it. It was in part 2 "The Demon Soul" after Tyrande was captured.




ScreenXSurfer said:


> No they don't. They create, perhaps, a hundred pound crater.


You really don't know, do you? Go watch the clips or read the books more, since you obviously fail to understand this. Infernals are 20ft or so tall and weigh multiple tons.



ScreenXSurfer said:


> Hyperbole


It isn't. Druids get their power directly from the World and Malfurion is the most powerful Druid in existence.


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## karmaofmischief (Dec 6, 2009)

Well for one im talking not just about WoW, im talking about warcraft in general, and the warcraft verse. And also the Butcher you fight in Warcraft 3 is a DIRECT reference to Diablo 1's boss. Whether you like it or not, if we have anything to go by, we can actually compare the powerscaling based on how a Diablo character and warcraft characters deal with the butcher. its simple, in diablo 1, you kill him at level 5. In warcraft 3, you need a whole raid to take him on. You cant kill him with a level 5 footsoldier. You need a raid and at least one fullyleveled hero.


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## ScreenXSurfer (Dec 6, 2009)

Raigen said:


> When you make an effort, I will. I've yet to see you do anything remotely close to bringing forth evidence.


Alright. A Druid's standard elemental setting allows them to summon twisters, volcanoes, tornadoes, hurricanes, and "Armageddon" or asteroids.

Now lets see yours.



> If you have it you should remember it.


The story was so bland that I couldn't be arsed to. Knaak the Hack rather wrote 75% of the trilogy on his pet creations and the Dragons rather than the main subject.



> It was in part 2 "The Demon Soul" after Tyrande was captured.



I just read it, page 356-359, all it mentions is it created mudslides and lasted for three days. Nothing about sweeping away hordes of demons is ever brought up.



> You really don't know, do you?



Dude, the clips show the Infernals crashing down about 100 meters per second. Burning black smoke, not the white that it should be burning if it was from reentry. This is just you jerking off the legion again.


> Go watch the clips or read the books more, since you obviously fail to understand this.



Er, no. I don't want to bother with 3rd rate fiction. 



> Infernals are 20ft or so tall and weigh multiple tons.


I'm not getting more than 4 gigajoules of energy myself.


> It isn't. Druids get their power directly from the World and Malfurion is the most powerful Druid in existence.


It means jack all, in fact.


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## Quelsatron (Dec 6, 2009)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> marvels mephisto...?



Have you never played diablo?


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## FireEel (Dec 6, 2009)

Raigen, are you not aware yet that Surfer is just trolling you?


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## Quelsatron (Dec 6, 2009)

FireEel said:


> Raigen, are you not aware yet that Surfer is just trolling you?



This has to be the most bizzarely wrong post I've ever seen


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## Omnirix (Dec 6, 2009)

Perhaps a better matchup would be old gods vs the three primal evils?


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## karmaofmischief (Dec 7, 2009)

Omnirix said:


> Perhaps a better matchup would be old gods vs the three primal evils?



True, but im not sure of the power of the prime evils in their true forms. All forms they have had in the games have been their possed forms. I dont think any possesed forms could take on one of the old gods. If we just go by powerscaling then it should be pretty even.


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## Raigen (Dec 7, 2009)

uh, no it wouldn't. A Titan would rape the Prime Evils. Sargeras enters the world and it's destroyed as a side-effect. The Five Aspects combined couldn't hope to make Sargeras crack a smile. In comparison, an Old God at full strength makes Sargeras look like a child. It took the Titans as a race to beat the Old Gods, and there's no telling how many Titans there are, let alone what makes up the Pantheon, their leading body. But it's well known there have only been Five Old Gods. One is dead, one is MIA, and the remaining three are sealed on Azeroth; One beneath Darkshore, the other in Silithus and the last in Northrend.


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## FireEel (Dec 7, 2009)

Raigen said:


> uh, no it wouldn't. A Titan would rape the Prime Evils. Sargeras enters the world and it's destroyed as a side-effect. The Five Aspects combined couldn't hope to make Sargeras crack a smile. In comparison, an Old God at full strength makes Sargeras look like a child. It took the Titans as a race to beat the Old Gods, and there's no telling how many Titans there are, let alone what makes up the Pantheon, their leading body. But it's well known there have only been Five Old Gods. One is dead, one is MIA, and the remaining three are sealed on Azeroth; One beneath Darkshore, the other in Silithus and the last in Northrend.



Not true.

Sargeras was at least equal to an Old God in power, if not more, because he was the mightiest of the Pantheons.

Also, it took the Titans as a race to defeat the Old Gods due to the sheer amount of forces and armies the Old Gods commanded, as well as the elemental lieutenants(Ragnaros, Neptulon and others like them).

Of the three sealed Old Gods, Yogg-Saron is Northrend, C'thun in Silithus, but the location of the last is not known. It is also confirmed that the dead Old God is in Darkshore, but is also hinted that it's death may not be permanent. However, the reason why the Old Gods live on is less due to their power, but rather that Azeroth itself is linked to the Old Gods, if they were to perish, so would Azeroth.

We never do truly kill an Old God for good. Despite our efforts in Silithus, C'thun is still very much capable of being resurrected, and although dormant now, he's still able to corrupt and unleash his minions.


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## Fenix (Dec 8, 2009)

Don't forget the bigass retcon about what came first: Shaping the planet or War against the Old Gods


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## Raigen (Dec 8, 2009)

Again, no. Sargeras is not on par with an Old God. Not even close. He was the Pantheon's Strongest Warrior, that's all. Never said anything about him being the most powerful of their group, only he was more adept for battle. Also, it wasn't just the Old Gods with an army. The Titans have their own minions as well. Algalon for one and there were numerous others. You can't solely claim that the Old Gods alone had an army when it's clearly evident the Titans do as well, and there's nothing suggesting that the Elemental Lords could even hope to stand against a Titan whose powers are basically Cosmic in nature.

Plus the reason why they didn't kill the Old Gods is because they discovered that their flesh/blood/essence permanently corrupts the land and everything it touches, which was why the Titans were forced towards imprisoning them. And it was not something so simple when a single Old God can fend off a group of Titans. And again, there is no way of telling how many Titans there are or how many make up the Pantheon. I would think 6 or more make up the Pantheon; One for each of the Aspects and then one position formerly belonging to Sargeras.

As for the missing sealed Old God, he's in Tirisfal Glades. Each point of where the Old Gods are sealed makes a rough triangular image on the World. Quite possibly done so on purpose by the Titans. In either case nothing takes away from the fact that the Old Gods are singularly more powerful than a number of Titans and it took them as a race just to seal them. I'm more afraid of the Old God who got away and is MIA. There's no telling what that one is up to. Maybe the Titans are chasing him/her/it across the universe.

You must also remember the events in War of the Ancients, or just listen to Krasus. He feared the release of the Old Gods far more than he did Sargeras crossing over into the world.


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