# Goku vs. Magneto



## Kuya (Sep 17, 2006)

Fight to the fullest potential. Who ftw?

Edit : Goku is fullest potential in DBZ. So SSJ3.


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## ~Shin~ (Sep 17, 2006)

by fullest potential do you mean DBGT or end of DBZ?


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## Kuya (Sep 17, 2006)

Let's juss say DBZ. SSJ3 is fullest potential w/o fusing.


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## ~Shin~ (Sep 17, 2006)

I don't really see how magneto can even hurt goku with his attacks and if goku goes ssj3 
R.I.P. Magneto


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## Gunners (Sep 17, 2006)

Hmm I think Magneto could win, though Goku could launch an attack at him before he can suck the iron from his body.


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## Vegitto-kun (Sep 17, 2006)

Indeed magneto would be dead thanks to goku's first attack O_o

goku doesn't have any metal or anythign


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## Darklyre (Sep 17, 2006)

He does, in his blood. Magneto is strong enough to use that iron to rip the blood right out of his body.

He's too slow to get the first attack though, and this is a duel where the first attack is a killer.


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## SoulTaker (Sep 17, 2006)

Couldn't Magneto give Goku a heart attack similar to what Xorneto did to Jean Grey?


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## Gunners (Sep 17, 2006)

> goku doesn't have any metal or anythign



Um people have metal in their bodies you know. Potasium Iron, Possibly magnisum.

Anyway for me it is the first attack which case I give this to Goku.


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## Kuya (Sep 17, 2006)

Wow a dbz fighter is winning. I made this because in my other thread it was apparent that Iceman >>>>> Vegeta, and Vegeta is somewhat equal to Goku. And according to Marvel rank isn't Magneto > Iceman? Please explain how Goku wins.


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## ~Shin~ (Sep 17, 2006)

well goku's speed>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Magneto
magneto won't even have time to do anything to goku, goku just goes behind him and then flicks magneto with his finger and that's the end of magneto


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## Darklyre (Sep 17, 2006)

Iceman > Vegeta simply because Iceman at full power cannot die. He's too slow to get the first attack, but in this case it wouldn't matter because the second attack still goes through.


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## Vegitto-kun (Sep 17, 2006)

Kuya said:
			
		

> Wow a dbz fighter is winning. I made this because in my other thread it was apparent that Iceman >>>>> Vegeta, and Vegeta is somewhat equal to Goku. And according to Marvel rank isn't Magneto > Iceman? Please explain how Goku wins.


lets see, goku can teleport everywhere and has attacks that can destroy planets, reason enough?


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## Gunners (Sep 17, 2006)

> Iceman > Vegeta simply because Iceman at full power cannot die. He's too slow to get the first attack, but in this case it wouldn't matter because the second attack still goes through.



Nice and all but this is Goku vs magneto.


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## SoulTaker (Sep 17, 2006)

Kuya said:
			
		

> Wow a dbz fighter is winning. I made this because in my other thread it was apparent that Iceman >>>>> Vegeta, and Vegeta is somewhat equal to Goku. And according to Marvel rank isn't Magneto > Iceman? Please explain how Goku wins.



Well for one thing,Iceman>>>Magneto at full potential.Iceman is a confirmed omega level mutant meaning he has unlimited potential.He could take out a lot of the DB-verse,maybe not the whole thing but he'll do major damage.

Anyway,Goku and Vegeta really aren't somewhat equal,they have a whole entire transformation between them.


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## Sasori (Sep 17, 2006)

gunners said:
			
		

> Nice and all but this is Goku vs magneto.


He was referring to a previous post.


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## Mojim (Sep 17, 2006)

Yeah Goku wins due to his speed ^^.He has the advantage in this fight


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## shadow978 (Sep 17, 2006)

*Goku*

I say Goku because come on he just knows waaaaaaay too many powerful moves that would rape Magneto so ya...Goku


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## Emery (Sep 17, 2006)

If Magneto can see him, then he can just kill him by fucking with the electrical waves in his brain.  But Goku's way too fast.


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## Phenomenol (Sep 17, 2006)

Darklyre said:
			
		

> He does, in his blood. Magneto is strong enough to use that iron to rip the blood right out of his body.
> 
> He's too slow to get the first attack though, and this is a duel where the first attack is a killer.



Maggy effects the IRON in a persons blood, last time I checked a Saiya-jin isn't a human being therefore to just ASSUME that there are ANY trace metals in their blood is compete bull****.


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## Comic Book Guy (Sep 17, 2006)

They bleed.

Compatible DNA with a human to produce offspring.

Humanoid.


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## Rice Ball (Sep 17, 2006)

Magneto wins.
He has stopped speedsters in there track before (quicksilver).

Also hes shown the ability to destroy very powerful people when he was in AoA killing apoc.


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## Comic Book Guy (Sep 17, 2006)

Magneto's full extent of his powers is manipulation of the entire electromagnetic specturm. Magnetism is the easiest that he can control. 
He can manipulate the iron in the blood to cause aneurysms.


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## CrimsonRex (Sep 17, 2006)

*Goku PWNS Magneto*



			
				Rice Ball said:
			
		

> Magneto wins.
> He has stopped speedsters in there track before (quicksilver).
> 
> Also hes shown the ability to destroy very powerful people when he was in AoA killing apoc.



*Goku still kills him, all he has to do is teleport behind him and bam!
Dead*



			
				Comic Book Guy said:
			
		

> They bleed.
> 
> Compatible DNA with a human to produce offspring.
> 
> Humanoid.



*But you still don't know if they even have iron.*


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## Comic Book Guy (Sep 17, 2006)

Understandable.

However, Mag's force field is quite durable. It stood against powerful characters like Phoenix Jean and even Galactus of characters during Secret Wars II.



> But you still don't know if they even have iron.



If that have compatible DNA to produce successful offspring with humans, I'd say the physiology is similar.


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## CrimsonRex (Sep 17, 2006)

*It would take Magneto at least a little while to pull the iron out of Anyone's body, and goku can move so fast, like light speed fast.
So that means Magneto's  a dead mutant*


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## Comic Book Guy (Sep 17, 2006)

> It would take Magneto at least a little while to pull the iron out of Anyone's body, and goku can move so fast, like light speed fast.



Speed blitz, understandable. However, Magneto has dealt with Quicksilver before.



> So that means Magneto's a dead mutant



If he can get his field up in time, he can last long enough to pull it off.


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## CrimsonRex (Sep 17, 2006)

*I understand that, but even if Goku's speed fails, he can just use Intant Transmission and come in the field magneto made and kill him. And believe me, Goku can kill Magento in no time.*


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## Comic Book Guy (Sep 17, 2006)

> I understand that, but even if Goku's speed fails, he can just use Intant Transmission and come in the field magneto made and kill him.



Depending on the size of the field. Last I read, when he's solo, it hardly allows space for a second person to come in.



> And believe me, Goku can kill Magento in no time.



I can understand off the fly. But if there was time for Mags to get his field up in time, he can stall long enough to cause an aneurysm or extract blood iron.


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## CrimsonRex (Sep 17, 2006)

*True dat. It depends of the settings of things*


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## omg laser pew pew! (Sep 17, 2006)

Don't triple post ThoraxeRMG, use the edit button instead


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## Akakiri (Sep 17, 2006)

Goku will kill him before he can even succeed in ripping out the iron


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## Vicious (Sep 17, 2006)

and goku has Iron in him why because he eats human food and human food has Iron!
anyway goku is to fast and strong, but magneto has Genius-level intellect which he could make some type of stradegy to beat goku but chances for that is low!
Magneto loses

Goku Wins


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## Envy (Sep 18, 2006)

Not only does Goku bleed. His blood is red so.. Iron is in there


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## Radical Dreamer (Sep 18, 2006)

Ah, but what about Goku's ki-shroud get gets in SS form? The full extent of what he can do with that thing hasn't been stated; it could possibly dull Magnito's powers.


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## Shiron (Sep 18, 2006)

Radical Dreamer said:
			
		

> Ah, but what about Goku's ki-shroud get gets in SS form? The full extent of what he can do with that thing hasn't been stated; it could possibly dull Magnito's powers.


And Magneto's force field could entirely render Goku's ki attacks useless for some reason.... Sorry, speculation can only get us so far. It's best to just rely on what we know for sure, instead of speculating about things like that, which we have no way of knowing for sure if they are true or not.


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## Shidoshi (Sep 18, 2006)

Gokuu's most powerful attacks...actually, the DBU's most powerful attacks center around the manipulation of energy (not really physical strength, although, it's just inconsistent to the nth degree), and if we assume that the energy, no matter where it's derived from, is electromagnetic in nature, then Magneto can essentially be impervious to pretty much anything that any DB character can throw at him, even turning their attacks back on themselves with a thought.

Blow up the planet?  Magneto's survived in space using his forcefield to maintain atmospheric pressure, and his magnetic force bubble is damn near impervious to most physical attacks.

As far as the "iron in the blood" thing, the red color of blood cells isn't caused from iron, it's caused from hemoglobin and the absorption of oxygen.  When Mags stops the flow of iron in the bloodstream, he doesn't really stop the bloodstream, otherwise aneurisms would be the least of the side effects.  Even if Saiyajin and human DNA can combine to create a hybrid...imagine how many extra freakin' chromosomes there has to be to allow for the transformation into a giant freakin' ape in the presence of full moon light...

I don't think Toriyama thought it out all that deeply when he created Gohan, Goten and Trunks...and the other progeny that followed.

Unless Gokuu got the first killing blow in, he's going to have a hard time laying a proverbial finger on Magneto.


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## Rice Ball (Sep 18, 2006)

I'm sure people are just ignoring what has been said.

*Speed isn't an issue-*

Magnet has THROWN quicksilver (who has speed compairable to Goku) while quicksilver tried to speedblitz him.

*Kai blasts aren't an issue-*

Magnet during SW has blocked attacked from GALACTUS (much much more powerful than Goku) and also the silver surfer.

*Distance isn't an issue-*

Magnet can fly, he can assult Goku no matter how far he go's from him.

*Goku's Blood doesn't have any Iron?*

I'd like you to try and prove that, we could say Goku's blood has TWICE the iron in it and be on the same stage as you. More than likely has Saijans have breed with humans with no issues (no disformed children) there DNA and physology is very simular to humans.


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## Sasori (Sep 18, 2006)

Goku > Mageneto

Goku < Mageneto w/Quick Claw


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## Shidoshi (Sep 18, 2006)

Rice Ball said:
			
		

> I'm sure people are just ignoring what has been said.
> 
> *Speed isn't an issue-*
> 
> Magnet has THROWN quicksilver (who has speed compairable to Goku) while quicksilver tried to speedblitz him.


Unless Quicksilver's speed skims the luminal barrier, Quicksilver is *vastly* slower than Gokuu is.

I don't know...not counting the Scarlet Witch castration, did the High Evolutionary's enhancements to Pietro's speed last this long?


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## Kuya (Sep 18, 2006)

What's quick claw


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## Endless Mike (Sep 18, 2006)

Okay, about that Galactus thing:

It wasn't an attack.

What actually happened was that Xavier and Magneto were using psychic powers to try to contact Galactus, but Galactus' mental defenses were so great that all of their power couldn't even get his attention, Xavier warned Magneto that it would be dangerous to use any more power, but he did so anyway, and got Galactus to notice him. However, it was only a subconscious thing, and Galactus involuntarily sent a shockwave (as a reflex) to the direction of Magneto and Xavier. It destroyed half of their base (which was earlier described as being the size of a large city) and Magneto's shield protected himself and Xavier from the blast. However, to Galactus, it was only like he just thought he noticed something and reacted to it as a reflex, not even a conscious attack. So people should stop overplaying that feat.

Also, didn't I hear something about Magneto dying and then becoming one with a planet's magnetic field?


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## Sasori (Sep 18, 2006)

Kuya said:
			
		

> What's quick claw


An equip item. It occassionally allows the holder to have the first turn, regardless of speed stats.


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## Gunners (Sep 18, 2006)

> Speed isn't an issue-
> 
> Magnet has THROWN quicksilver (who has speed compairable to Goku) while quicksilver tried to speedblitz him.



Um quicksilver isn't his speed like 500mph, I don't think it breaks the sound barrier, or is he faster than that?


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## Phenomenol (Sep 18, 2006)

> *Speed isn't an issue-*
> 
> Magnet has THROWN quicksilver (who has speed compairable to Goku) while quicksilver tried to speedblitz him.



Speed is always an issue! Magneto is not going to touch what he can't See.



> *Kai blasts aren't an issue-*
> 
> Magnet during SW has blocked attacked from GALACTUS (much much more powerful than Goku) and also the silver surfer.



Planet destroying power is ALWAYS an issue! Besides Galactus beat Maggy down with mental defense I believe or is this a different comic and series? 



> *Distance isn't an issue-*
> 
> Magnet can fly, he can assult Goku no matter how far he go's from him.



Agreed! Goku won't be running anywhere though! 



> *Goku's Blood doesn't have any Iron?*
> 
> I'd like you to try and prove that, we could say Goku's blood has TWICE the iron in it and be on the same stage as you. More than likely has Saijans have breed with humans with no issues (no disformed children) there DNA and physology is very simular to humans.



Because we all KNOW that Goku has iron in his Saiya-jin blood? Maggy effects the IRON in a persons blood, last time I checked a Saiya-jin isn't a human being therefore to just ASSUME that there are ANY trace metals in their blood is wrong.


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## konflikti (Sep 18, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> Because we all KNOW that Goku has iron in his Saiya-jin blood? Maggy effects the IRON in a persons blood, last time I checked a Saiya-jin isn't a human being therefore to just ASSUME that there are ANY trace metals in their blood is wrong.



Assuming that there isn't any metal in Goku's body, just because he happens to be against guy who manipulates electromagnetic spectrum is pretty retarded in my opinion. After all, everything in the manga points out that he is very similar to human beings.

Occam's razor too.

Mags has chance if he has shields up when the fight starts. Otherwise bloodlusted Goku can probably slay him before he can react.


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## GasGuzzler (Sep 18, 2006)

Goku wins hands down even with Magnetos quick claw advantage. Goku can travel faster than the eye can see, and we all know how old and frail Magneto is. =)


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## Sasori (Sep 18, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> Because we all KNOW that Goku has iron in his Saiya-jin blood? Maggy effects the IRON in a persons blood, last time I checked a Saiya-jin isn't a human being therefore to just ASSUME that there are ANY trace metals in their blood is wrong.


Using this logic, does Goku have brain waves?


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## Endless Mike (Sep 18, 2006)

Even other animal species on Earth (like gorillas and chimpanzees) that are closely related to us cannot produce offspring with humans, let alone fetile offspring. Saying that a being that can produce fertile offspring with humans has completely different blood chemistry is simply ignorant.


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## Comic Book Guy (Sep 18, 2006)

> Also, didn't I hear something about Magneto dying and then becoming one with a planet's magnetic field?



Joseph, Magneto's clone.



> Because we all KNOW that Goku has iron in his Saiya-jin blood? Maggy effects the IRON in a persons blood, last time I checked a Saiya-jin isn't a human being therefore to just ASSUME that there are ANY trace metals in their blood is wrong.



Last I checked, Saiyans eat the same food that humans do.


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## Phenomenol (Sep 18, 2006)

Eating the same food has nothing to do with this. Saiya-jins also eat other aliens so what is your point?.


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## Endless Mike (Sep 18, 2006)

Wait, what?


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## Darklyre (Sep 18, 2006)

Many foods have iron, buddy.


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## Comic Book Guy (Sep 18, 2006)

> Eating the same food has nothing to do with this. Saiya-jins also eat other aliens so what is your point?.



You eat food.

Your body extracts nutrients from food, and what's left becomes human waste/fecal matter.

Food contains iron.


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## Phenomenol (Sep 19, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> Even other animal species on Earth (like gorillas and chimpanzees) that are closely related to us cannot produce offspring with humans, let alone fetile offspring. Saying that a being that can produce fertile offspring with humans has completely different blood chemistry is simply ignorant.



Again you're assuming that a Saiya-jin body functions just like a humans. It doesn't, therefore your science holds no water. Also maggys powers are NOT limitless at all. Considering that Goku  can move faster than Maggy can see. I don't see how maggy would even be able to get a lock on his body let alone be able to effect his alien physiology.


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## konflikti (Sep 19, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> Again you're assuming that a Saiya-jin body functions just like a humans. It doesn't, therefore your science holds no water.



They eat the same food, they can produce offsprings, their physical structure looks exactly the same, except tail, they bleed and an array of things I am too lazy to list. Show a one scan that says they are fundamentally different from human in their physiology.

This is like the other guy assuming that the car moves because it wheels spin and push it forward, while the other guy assumes that there must be antigravitional field pushing it forward, while wheels are there just for show. You are the guy assuming antigravitional field.


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## Roy (Sep 19, 2006)

I dont see how Magneto can win unless they fight in a place filled with metal objects


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## Shidoshi (Sep 19, 2006)

konflikti said:
			
		

> Show a one scan that says they are fundamentally different from human in their physiology.


A scan isn't necessary:  they transform into giant ape-like creatures in the presense of full moonlight.

How many extra or different chromosomes must be required to manifest an ability like that?

Although, in the end, they eat human foods that contain iron, so it's pretty much almost the same thing.


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## Gooba (Sep 19, 2006)

Would you say the physiology of a human is vastly different from a shark? A bird? An alliagor? A snake? A frog? They all contain metals inside them.  Also, all nervous systems use electricity, which Mags could mess with.  Obviously Goku wins by speed blitz if they don't get time to set up beforehand, but saying he is immune to mangetism is just silly.


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## Comic Book Guy (Sep 19, 2006)

> Again you're assuming that a Saiya-jin body functions just like a humans. It doesn't, therefore your science holds no water.



They eat food. Which contains iron.

The fact that they can procreate with humans points out that their DNA is highly compatible.


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## GasGuzzler (Sep 19, 2006)

how did this end up as a food discussion?..............


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## qOcOp (Sep 19, 2006)

magneto can throw metal at goku.



metal doesnt hurt goku.



goku > magneto


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## Sasori (Sep 19, 2006)

^ Maneto can pull all the metal from his body.

Or fuck up his brain waves.

But the trouble is that Goku may be too fast for him to do this.


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## Radical Dreamer (Sep 19, 2006)

I don't think Magneto could screw with Goku's mind. Goku himself has psychic abilities so he would probably have a defense to that.


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## Sasori (Sep 19, 2006)

He's not using any psychic abilities.

He's manipulating electromagnetic waves in his brain, similar to the way he controls metal.


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## Comic Book Guy (Sep 19, 2006)

At the full extent of his power, Magneto's a beast. He's pretty much the Unified Field Theory incarnate.


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## Envy (Sep 19, 2006)

Radical Dreamer said:
			
		

> I don't think Magneto could screw with Goku's mind. Goku himself has psychic abilities so he would probably have a defense to that.



Since when did Goku have psychic abilites? Where the fuck are all the fanboys pulling this shit from.


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## Comic Book Guy (Sep 19, 2006)

Goku has basic telepathy, one-way communication at least.

Piccolo can communicate mentally. I remember this in the Buu saga.

Goku read Krillin's mind for an update when he finally arrived on Namek.


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## The Wanderer (Sep 19, 2006)

He also has basic telekinesis. At least that's what he showed when he was recovering from his battle against Vegeta. But it's not that great IMO: he struggled in order to move a glass of water.

Now, if that scene was 100% filler, forget what I said.


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## Guy Gardner (Sep 19, 2006)

Didn't he cause a heart attack in Phoenix from releasing a strong electromagnetic wave? What'll stop him from just using that? Being able to control energy fields to their fullest extent is pretty much a God-like power. I'm not sure how Goku could even hope to penetrate his shield even if he wanted to.


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## Rice Ball (Sep 19, 2006)

I wonder how meny people here who have said 'Goku' have read Age of Apocolypes. 
Magneto RIPED Apoc apart.


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## Giovanni Rild (Sep 19, 2006)

Justice And Rule said:
			
		

> Didn't he cause a heart attack in Phoenix from releasing a strong electromagnetic wave? *What'll stop him from just using that?* Being able to control energy fields to their fullest extent is pretty much a God-like power. I'm not sure how Goku could even hope to penetrate his shield even if he wanted to.



Shunkan Id?, then fist in brains. Or just speedblitz


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## Envy (Sep 19, 2006)

Illuminati Gate said:
			
		

> Shunkan Id?, then fist in brains. Or just speedblitz



Putting his hand to his fist is enough time for Magneto to rape him.


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## Comic Book Guy (Sep 19, 2006)

X-Men Omega, right?

Well, Apocalypse knocked Mags a bit. . . who let him, concentrating on ripping Apocalypse in half. Which he succeeded.


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## Uchiha kid (Sep 19, 2006)

Goku>>>>>>>>>Magneto


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## Darklyre (Sep 19, 2006)

If by full potential meaning constant shield, Goku has pretty much no way of getting through it. If by full potential you mean maximum power but completely defenseless at the beginning of the fight, Goku can speedblitz him.

If they start out defenseless and Goku does NOT speedblitz him, Goku's dead.


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## Comic Book Guy (Sep 19, 2006)

Speedblitz, yes.

If Magneto had a few seconds, he can kill Goku -- rip the iron out of his body, manipulate his brainwaves, cause an aneurysm.


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## Phenomenol (Sep 19, 2006)

Angela said:
			
		

> Putting his hand to his fist is enough time for Magneto to rape him.



Their is no delay for Shunkan Idou! Goku only puts his two fingers to his hand when he doesn't know where he is going.

In battle the Shunkan Idou is natural he can use it at will.


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## Guy Gardner (Sep 19, 2006)

And just as the universe will eventually die from heat-death, this thread is now doomed to die from a similar entropy.

When has he ever shown the ability to do Shunkan Idou instantly? When he did it against Cell he easily had a good 10 or 20 seconds to lock on while he charged up the Kamehameha.

Plus, putting his two fingers up IS a delay. And Magneto has a neglible ki signature. Doubtful he could track it without actually putting effort into it.


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## Phenomenol (Sep 20, 2006)

Justice And Rule said:
			
		

> And just as the universe will eventually die from heat-death, this thread is now doomed to die from a similar entropy.
> 
> When has he ever shown the ability to do Shunkan Idou instantly? When he did it against Cell he easily had a good 10 or 20 seconds to lock on while he charged up the Kamehameha.
> 
> Plus, putting his two fingers up IS a delay. And Magneto has a neglible ki signature. Doubtful he could track it without actually putting effort into it.



Link removed Link removed Link removed Link removed Link removed Link removed Link removed 

Link removed Link removed 

I am not going to tell you and your BIAS again, Goku can use Shunkan Idou at WILL! When he puts two fingers to his head he has to concentrate because of lack of energy or when he does not know where he is going. Goku can use the Shunkan Idou at will.



> Obviously your knowledge on magneto is SEVERELY limited, he isnt just effecting metals, and where is your proof saiyans have no iron in their blood? Magneto has effected aliens before, theres no reason to suspect he wouldnt be able to effect a saiyan, seeing as they were able to figure out a cure for goku that worked on him that was caused by a HUMAN disease



LOL my knowledge is severly limted? First of all where did I say that maggy could ONLY effect metal? The method in which he freezes people IS due to the iron in the blood. The burden of proof is on YOU my friend. Unless theres a specific instance of saiya-jins being revealed to have iron in their blood they don't its as simple as that. As for the disease being human, **** don't make me laugh. GOKU A SAIYA-JIN was the FIRST person to contract it so how the hell is it HUMAN? Btw how does a future cure for a disease have ANYTHING to do with Magneto fighting Goku?


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## Envy (Sep 20, 2006)

> LOL my knowledge is severly limted? First of all where did I say that maggy could ONLY effect metal? The method in which he freezes people IS due to the iron in the blood. The burden of proof is on YOU my friend. Unless theres a specific instance of saiya-jins being revealed to have iron in their blood they don't its as simple as that. As for the disease being human, **** don't make me laugh. GOKU A SAIYA-JIN was the FIRST person to contract it so how the hell is it HUMAN? Btw how does a future cure for a disease have ANYTHING to do with Magneto fighting Goku?




You do realize, with Goku's blood being red, that means there's iron in his blood. Hemoglobin = Iron rich Protein. Guess you lose that arguement.

Edit: Don't pull out shit that his blood isn't red either.


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Sep 20, 2006)

...
Whoever gets the first attack off wins. 
So basicall the thread just becomes a dbz speed debate...


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## Envy (Sep 20, 2006)

Udesphikaiyo said:
			
		

> ...
> Whoever gets the first attack off wins.
> So basicall the thread just becomes a dbz speed debate...



It's not because Goku > Megneto in speed.

It's whether Magneto can pull off his shield or not.


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Sep 20, 2006)

^ Oh

Well then
- Goku wins. Magento could not shield himself against a planet + destroying blast like Goku's. Um, curious, are we using Base Goku or Goku ins SSj.


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## Comic Book Guy (Sep 20, 2006)

> The method in which he freezes people IS due to the iron in the blood.



Actually, he can manipulate the brainwaves of other people. It's been a hell of a long time, but that's how he was 'pardoned' from his rimes when he finally stood world trial.


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## Envy (Sep 20, 2006)

Udesphikaiyo said:
			
		

> ^ Oh
> 
> Well then
> - Goku wins. Magento could not shield himself against a planet + destroying blast like Goku's. Um, curious, are we using Base Goku or Goku ins SSj.



No, the shield blocks anything Goku has to offer. It's a matter of if he can get it on or not. If he can, he wins. If he can't, he loses.


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Sep 20, 2006)

Angela said:
			
		

> No, the shield blocks anything Goku has to offer. It's a matter of if he can get it on or not. If he can, he wins. If he can't, he loses.



In what comics does it show or say Magento's shield can easily shield against a concentrated blast that could easily destroy a planet? ( I don't exactly remember the nature of his shield, but since when can it shield against planet plus power attacks?)

and 

since when can Magneto's shiled easily block an attack that does not strictly go by the standard scientific laws, due to it's base being one in occult/ occultism?


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## Phenomenol (Sep 20, 2006)

Angela said:
			
		

> You do realize, with Goku's blood being red, that means there's iron in his blood. Hemoglobin = Iron rich Protein. Guess you lose that arguement.
> 
> Edit: Don't pull out shit that his blood isn't red either.



Wow, you are right, forgot about that Hemoglobin!

Still that is not going to help Maggy because he dies in a blink of an eye.


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## konflikti (Sep 20, 2006)

Udesphikaiyo said:
			
		

> since when can Magneto's shiled easily block an attack that does not strictly go by the standard scientific laws, due to it's base being one in occult/ occultism?



Captain Universe Spidey:

Link removed

Here's respect pictures thread in Killermovies:

Snapple

Now, must run!


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## Envy (Sep 20, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> Wow, you are right, forgot about that Hemoglobin!
> 
> Still that is not going to help Maggy because he dies in a blink of an eye.



My God. That's like the first thing I've ever seen you back off on. But then again, it was indisputable proof but still. Amazing.


----------



## Phenomenol (Sep 20, 2006)

Hey I give credit where it's due baby!


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Sep 20, 2006)

After an insane amount of application.


----------



## Endless Mike (Sep 20, 2006)

Okay, how about this:

Goku's body is made of matter, true or false?


----------



## Shidoshi (Sep 20, 2006)

FALSE!!1

It's made of ki zomfglolzorz!!!1111!!!one!1!!!!11!2


----------



## Xell (Sep 20, 2006)

Goku was basically a god by the end of DBZ.. I don't see how Magneto could even harm him..


----------



## Art of Run (Sep 20, 2006)

...goku is a god who can save the wrold from people who can destroy it in 1 attack...goku wins...


----------



## Shiron (Sep 21, 2006)

Xell said:
			
		

> I don't see how Magneto could even harm him..


By ripping all of the metal out of his body?


----------



## Captain Pimp (Sep 21, 2006)

Is it stated in the comics that Magneto can take iron out of a human body? I only saw this in X-Men 2 and I'm sure those movies aren't canon...

Although Goku can just finish Magneto off before he does the trick anyways...


----------



## kyutofukumaki (Sep 21, 2006)

Magneto could win. If goku just goes at him fast he could win.


----------



## Endless Mike (Sep 21, 2006)

Captain Pip said:
			
		

> Is it stated in the comics that Magneto can take iron out of a human body? I only saw this in X-Men 2 and I'm sure those movies aren't canon...
> 
> Although Goku can just finish Magneto off before he does the trick anyways...



Comic Magneto >>>>>>>>>> movie Magneto.


----------



## Captain Pimp (Sep 21, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> Comic Magneto >>>>>>>>>> movie Magneto.



yea i know...but can Magneto take out iron from a human in the comics?


----------



## Endless Mike (Sep 21, 2006)

Yes, without extra injected beforehand.

yoshitsune translation
yoshitsune translation


----------



## Captain Pimp (Sep 21, 2006)

oh wow...those scans really show the deadliness of Magneto's move much better than the movie one.


----------



## Endless Mike (Sep 21, 2006)

And it was against Apocalpyse and his Horsemen, to boot.


----------



## Captain Pimp (Sep 21, 2006)

I never saw Apocalypse get owned that badly....Last time I saw him, Wolverine was getting beaten by him.

Back to topic: I still think Goku wins.


----------



## Pinkaugust (Sep 22, 2006)

Saiyajin victory once again...


----------



## Uchiha_E.B. (Sep 26, 2006)

Totaly agree Goku wins hand down


----------



## Shiron (Sep 26, 2006)

Still not seeing what Goku would do against having all of the iron ripped out of his blood...


----------



## superbatman86 (Sep 26, 2006)

Shiron said:
			
		

> Still not seeing what Goku would do against having all of the iron ripped out of his blood...


Still not seeing how magneto will react fast enough to get up a sheild before he becomes a splatter mark.


----------



## Apocalypes (Oct 3, 2006)

gunners said:
			
		

> Hmm I think Magneto could win, though Goku could launch an attack at him before he can suck the iron from his body.


I doubt Magneto can even Pull the metal out througfh his skin. Goku wouldn't even feel it.......


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 3, 2006)

Then he'll suffer an aneurysm.


----------



## Graham Aker (Oct 4, 2006)

magneto uses the iron in gokus blood to wreck his insides...

magneto wins...


----------



## G-Wolf (Oct 4, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> Maggy effects the IRON in a persons blood, last time I checked a Saiya-jin isn't a human being therefore to just ASSUME that there are ANY trace metals in their blood is compete bull****.



Yes but he eats earth food,so he has iron in his blood.


----------



## G-Wolf (Oct 4, 2006)

Shiron said:
			
		

> Still not seeing what Goku would do against having all of the iron ripped out of his blood...



Well we don't know if he can rip Goku's skin.


----------



## Graham Aker (Oct 4, 2006)

> Well we don't know if he can rip Goku's skin.


like i said, he'll just kill goku from the inside, dont need to rip through gokus hard exterior...


----------



## Apocalypes (Oct 4, 2006)

Maybe Gokus Blood steams and organs are probly like a billion times more stronger then a normal humans i doubt magneto can fuck him up from the inside. I mean he can get hit by Ki blast that can destry whole planets and come out with a few or no scratchs.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Oct 4, 2006)

Apocalypes said:
			
		

> Maybe Gokus Blood steams and organs are probly like a billion times more stronger then a normal humans i doubt magneto can fuck him up from the inside. I mean he can get hit by Ki blast that can destry whole planets and come out with a few or no scratchs.



Proof? What makes you think that?


----------



## jplaya2023 (Oct 4, 2006)

Thread is retarded, goku would KO mags in seconds. SSJ3 is way overkill he'll beat him using kaoken in the saiyan saga.

There is no proof that goku has iron in his blood as he's a saiyan and the biology of a saiyan was never explained. So that iron shit is out.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 4, 2006)

> Thread is retarded, goku would KO mags in seconds. SSJ3 is way overkill he'll beat him using kaoken in the saiyan saga.
> 
> There is no proof that goku has iron in his blood as he's a saiyan and the biology of a saiyan was never explained. So that iron shit is out.



He has iron in his blood.

He consumes Earth food.

Therefore, iron is in his body.

Even Phenomenol had to accept this.



			
				Angela said:
			
		

> You do realize, with Goku's blood being red, that means there's iron in his blood. Hemoglobin = Iron rich Protein. Guess you lose that arguement.
> 
> Edit: Don't pull out shit that his blood isn't red either.


----------



## mustang (Oct 4, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:
			
		

> Thread is retarded, goku would KO mags in seconds. SSJ3 is way overkill he'll beat him using kaoken in the saiyan saga.
> 
> There is no proof that goku has iron in his blood as he's a saiyan and the biology of a saiyan was never explained. So that iron shit is out.


Iron is in things such as meant, fish, poultry, lenis, beans, leaf vegetables, tofu, chickenpea, black eyed pea, strawberries, and Farina. And please don't say something stupid like the food that goku eats doesn't contain iron because we all know ho much GOkU love to eat(especially meat), if anything he have more iron than anyone else on the planet.


----------



## jplaya2023 (Oct 4, 2006)

Comic Book Guy said:
			
		

> He has iron in his blood.
> 
> He consumes Earth food.
> 
> ...




i'll accept that because of the food he eats. But before he came to earth and ate earth food there is no proof either way of him having iron in his blood.


----------



## jplaya2023 (Oct 4, 2006)

mustang said:
			
		

> Farina.




They use farina to make cream of wheat. Shit good as hell to


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 4, 2006)

> i'll accept that because of the food he eats. But before he came to earth and ate earth food there is no proof either way of him having iron in his blood.



So? What's that going to do for the match-up?

Using a Goku fresh from space? You know how ridiculous that is to use in a battle thread?

That's like saying Nate Grey fresh from the bathroom vs. Bishop returning from time travelling.


----------



## jplaya2023 (Oct 4, 2006)

Comic Book Guy said:
			
		

> So? What's that going to do for the match-up?
> 
> Using a Goku fresh from space? You know how ridiculous that is to use in a battle thread?
> 
> That's like saying Nate Grey fresh from the bathroom vs. Bishop returning from time travelling.




i dont know a nate grey? *Shrugs* 

And since magneto have this ability to drain iron from your blood or whatever, why hasnt he done that to all the xmen including xavier, and everyone he's ever fought with iron in their blood. How many (Canon) times has he done this exactly


----------



## Orion (Oct 4, 2006)

if goku speedblitzes he takes it if he doesnt mag kills him with metal in blood.


----------



## Gooba (Oct 4, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:
			
		

> i dont know a nate grey? *Shrugs*
> 
> And since magneto have this ability to drain iron from your blood or whatever, why hasnt he done that to all the xmen including xavier, and everyone he's ever fought with iron in their blood. How many (Canon) times has he done this exactly


He doesn't because he doesn't want to kill them.

Also, Goku has brain waves, which are electrical.  Mags could screw around with those too, to disasterous results.


----------



## jplaya2023 (Oct 4, 2006)

Gooba said:
			
		

> He doesn't because he doesn't want to kill them.
> 
> *lol, so he fights the xmen for fun then never wanting to kill them although they want to kill him right (sans charles)*
> 
> Also, Goku has brain waves, which are electrical.  Mags could screw around with those too, to disasterous results.



maybe, but please show scans of mags doing this


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 4, 2006)

> i dont know a nate grey? *Shrugs*
> 
> And since magneto have this ability to drain iron from your blood or whatever, why hasnt he done that to all the xmen including xavier, and everyone he's ever fought with iron in their blood.



Chooses not to. His agenda is for the good of all mutantkind. The last time he indirectly harmed a mutant -- Kitty -- he gave himself up to the World Court. As a villain that he is, he wants to spare as much mutant life as possible. Humans are a different story.



> How many (Canon) times has he done this exactly



Ripping people apart?

3, at least. Two scans are on this site.



> lol, so he fights the xmen for fun then never wanting to kill them although they want to kill him right (sans charles)



Only Wolverine. Show me when the X-Men wants to kill someone?

maybe, but please show scans of mags doing this[/quote]



			
				Endless Mike said:
			
		

> Yes, without extra injected beforehand.
> 
> x
> x



As for brainwaves?

World Trial of Magneto, I believe. I don't have the comic in my collection though.


----------



## Sasori (Oct 4, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:
			
		

> i'll accept that because of the food he eats. But before he came to earth and ate earth food there is no proof either way of him having iron in his blood.


He has red blood. Iron is what makes your blood red.


----------



## Shidoshi (Oct 4, 2006)

Comic Book Guy said:
			
		

> Chooses not to. His agenda is for the good of all mutantkind. The last time he indirectly harmed a mutant -- Kitty -- he gave himself up to the World Court. As a villain that he is, he wants to spare as much mutant life as possible. Humans are a different story.


In fact, he *has* stemmed the flow of iron to Xavier's brain once before, while he had him captured...dammit if I can't remember the issue that occured.

Depriving Xavier of iron to his brain essentially left his brain half functioning, his powers staved off and his senses still functioning, as Magneto intended.


----------



## superbatman86 (Oct 4, 2006)

All the Iron in Goku(which there is) wouldn't matter because Mags would be dead before his synapses could fire to form the mental command to raise a shield let alone mess with Goku's insides.


----------



## Endless Mike (Oct 5, 2006)

superbatman86 said:
			
		

> All the Iron in Goku(which there is) wouldn't matter because Mags would be dead before his synapses could fire to form the mental command to raise a shield let alone mess with Goku's insides.



And your proof is?

Magneto reacts several dozen times faster than a normal human (this was stated in his profile, I believe).

He was fast enough to block a blast from Cosmic Spider-man, who is FTL.

Besides, when has Goku ever started a fight by just attacking the person at maximum speed and not even giving them a chance to see him or say anything first?


----------



## jplaya2023 (Oct 5, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> Besides, when has Goku ever started a fight by just attacking the person at maximum speed and not even giving them a chance to see him or say anything first?



Of course not, in Z they usually sandbag at the beginning of fights and feel out eachother's strengths and weaknesses and adjust accordingly by either increasing their speed, their power or both. But has magneto ever started a fight sucking the iron out of someone's blood, and if so can i see some scans?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 5, 2006)

Endless Mike posted it way earlier.

 [X]


----------



## jplaya2023 (Oct 5, 2006)

Comic Book Guy said:
			
		

> Endless Mike posted it way earlier.
> 
> [X]




link not working for me


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 5, 2006)

I quoted EM's post up this page, if the reiterated link doesn't work.


----------



## Hagen (Oct 5, 2006)

I know magneto can blow up ppl controlling the iron and metallic salts in the body. But i cant figure out Goku losing to him. 
An overpowered body like Goku's would not be destroyed that easily i think, if he realizes what's happening he will just shoot a ki blast to destroy Magneto instantly.


----------



## superbatman86 (Oct 5, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> And your proof is?
> 
> Magneto reacts several dozen times faster than a normal human (this was stated in his profile, I believe).
> 
> ...


And dozens of times is what to people hundredes of times faster than that?Yes because Spider-Man instantly went for the kill there.It doesn't matter if Spidey is capable of FTL if he didn't use it here.How many other times has he blocked a speedster.And don't use Pietro because he's notorius for jobbing to Magneto.And how many times has Mags started a fight by giving some long winded speach about how he's better or more powerful than everyone else.


----------



## G-Wolf (Oct 5, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:
			
		

> Thread is retarded, goku would KO mags in seconds. SSJ3 is way overkill he'll beat him using kaoken in the saiyan saga.
> 
> There is no proof that goku has iron in his blood as he's a saiyan and the biology of a saiyan was never explained. So that iron shit is out.



Goku has iron in his blood,so Mags can just play around wiht Goku and do whatever he wants.

I hate to say it but Mags 10/10.


----------



## G-Wolf (Oct 5, 2006)

superbatman86 said:
			
		

> And dozens of times is what to people hundredes of times faster than that?Yes because Spider-Man instantly went for the kill there.It doesn't matter if Spidey is capable of FTL if he didn't use it here.How many other times has he blocked a speedster.And don't use Pietro because he's notorius for jobbing to Magneto.And how many times has Mags started a fight by giving some long winded speach about how he's better or more powerful than everyone else.



He does that?Well then there is a chance that Goku might win.


----------



## G-Wolf (Oct 5, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> Besides, when has Goku ever started a fight by just attacking the person at maximum speed and not even giving them a chance to see him or say anything first?



When has Goku attacked someone at super speed not giving him a chance to fight back?
I'll tell you:Against #19,against Fat Buu,against kid Buu and that's about it.

Against Cell he was warming up,against Majin Vegeta he was equal.

But there is a chance that he will ko Mags very fast.But if Mags just contorls Goku through the iron inside him he loses.


----------



## Endless Mike (Oct 5, 2006)

superbatman86 said:
			
		

> And dozens of times is what to people hundredes of times faster than that?Yes because Spider-Man instantly went for the kill there.It doesn't matter if Spidey is capable of FTL if he didn't use it here.How many other times has he blocked a speedster.And don't use Pietro because he's notorius for jobbing to Magneto.And how many times has Mags started a fight by giving some long winded speach about how he's better or more powerful than everyone else.



And your source for this 'hundreds of times' figure?


----------



## Shidoshi (Oct 5, 2006)

G-Wolf said:
			
		

> When has Goku attacked someone at super speed not giving him a chance to fight back?
> I'll tell you:Against #19,against Fat Buu,against kid Buu and that's about it.
> 
> Against Cell he was warming up,against Majin Vegeta he was equal.
> ...


There was a conversation before each of those fights.  Against Jinzouningen Juukyugou, Gokuu took the time to ask who they were and why they wanted to kill him, even took the time out to point out that they should have continued monitoring him when he went to Namek and showed the Super Saiyajin transformation.

In that length of time, Magneto could lock onto every iron atom in Gokuu's body.

Against Fat Buu, again, Gokuu goes through the trouble of explaining the different Super Saiyajin transformation, stalling for time as Trunks went to West City to get the Dragon Radar from his home before Buu and Babidi destroyed it.

And again, in that length of time, Magneto could lock onto every iron atom contained in Gokuu's body.

Against Kid Buu...debatable.  In the anime, Kid Buu wasn't even paying much attention (if my memory serves me correctly) until Gokuu started powering up.  In the manga, Gokuu went straight to SSj3, but even that takes at least a second.  That's the only debatable instance where he _immediately_ starts fighting.


----------



## superbatman86 (Oct 5, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> And your source for this 'hundreds of times' figure?


Are you honestly arguing that Goku *ISN'T *hundreds of times faster than normal humans?Wow that's not only sad but delusional too.


----------



## jplaya2023 (Oct 5, 2006)

superbatman86 said:
			
		

> Are you honestly arguing that Goku *ISN'T *hundreds of times faster than normal humans?Wow that's not only sad but delusional too.







dude hates goku so much he beleives normal humans are able to perceive fights all the way through the buu saga


----------



## SoulTaker (Oct 5, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:
			
		

> dude hates goku so much he beleives normal humans are able to perceive fights all the way through the buu saga



We've been over this and even G-Wolf will back it up,hell even Phenom backed it up.The Z-Warriors do not fight at superspeeds all the time,and when they do it's in short bursts baseline humans can't percieve.Outside of those bursts humans can percieve them.It also showed that Mr.Satan could percieve ki blasts which were supposedly ftl.Nice job skewing the point.


----------



## Endless Mike (Oct 6, 2006)

superbatman86 said:
			
		

> Are you honestly arguing that Goku *ISN'T *hundreds of times faster than normal humans?Wow that's not only sad but delusional too.



Ad hominem. I'm talking about reaction time. Now prove it or shut up.


----------



## Endless Mike (Oct 6, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:
			
		

> dude hates goku so much he beleives normal humans are able to perceive fights all the way through the buu saga



Yes, I must hate DBZ sooooooo much to actually believe what is clearly shown in canon.....


----------



## blacklusterseph004 (Oct 6, 2006)

I'm not so sure about Magneto controlling the iron in Goku's body. As someone on the previous page pointed out, Goku's body is far from a normal human's in strength. He trained himself is environments with ridiculously high levels of gravity. That not only increases your body's muscle strength, but your body's cell strength as well. His heart can pump blood more effectively, his bones are denser etc.

Also, Vegito showed that when they raise their powerlevel, there control over particles inside their body increases dramatically, to the extent where Z characters can control it. 

Even if Goku still can't resist such an attack, I think he body's resilience is hard enough to overcome that it isn't an instant k.o. Also, if he really starts powering up, it may further impede Magneto's control. If Goku can buy himself even 2 seconds, he can finish Magneto via the IT->Kamehameha combo.


----------



## Endless Mike (Oct 6, 2006)

Magneto can create a wormhole to redirect the attack.


----------



## blacklusterseph004 (Oct 6, 2006)

EM said:
			
		

> Magneto can create a wormhole to redirect the attack.


Is he fast enough to do that? From what I recall, after Goku completed the IT, he just extended his arms to execute the kamehameha (he powered up before he IT'd).


----------



## Endless Mike (Oct 6, 2006)

Yet Cell had enough time to say something before he fired it.

Besides, Magneto has shields he can erect instantly with a thought.

Not to mention Goku only used that move once, because he realized he was losing and was trying to do a last - ditch attempt to win against a stronger enemy.


----------



## blacklusterseph004 (Oct 6, 2006)

> Besides, Magneto has shields he can erect instantly with a thought.


Would he know to do so if Goku vanished in front of him? Also, I'm not sure, but can his shields stop a full powered kamehameha?



> Not to mention Goku only used that move once, because he realized he was losing and was trying to do a last - ditch attempt to win against a stronger enemy.


So does that mean Goku can't use that move again when he isn't under pressure?


----------



## Endless Mike (Oct 6, 2006)

Feeling is he probably wouldn't since it's not the right kind of situation. Besides, he still had to power up for it beforehand.


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Oct 6, 2006)

...
Wtf, since when did Magneto get so powerful? Seriously, what happenned to go old Magneto from the X-men Cartoon. sounds like Magneto would pwn half the Jla...  Not Flash though, because Flash pwns everything.


----------



## jplaya2023 (Oct 6, 2006)

flash is overrated and cant do anything to someone who can fly. Speedforce is overrated, his speed is overrated,fighting etc.. etc..


----------



## jplaya2023 (Oct 6, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> Yes, I must hate DBZ sooooooo much to actually believe what is clearly shown in canon.....




save it, i show you canon stuff all the time and u discredit it because you simply dont beleive its true.


----------



## Endless Mike (Oct 6, 2006)

LOL. He can jump and hit them before they can react, steal their speed from a distance, or create a whirlwind to suck their oxygen away or pull them down. Flash has feats and powers that dwarf DBZ characters, you just are annoyed by that.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 6, 2006)

> flash is overrated and cant do anything to someone who can fly. Speedforce is overrated, his speed is overrated,fighting etc.. etc..



Why the hell do you mention Flash in a Goku vs. Magneto topic?

If Flash decides to get serious, he's a freaking powerhouse.

initial speed steal + constant intangibility + destructive vibration + max speed

We add on the Speed Formula, he'd be lightspeed _at base_.

We add on his nigh-omnipresence as his max (KC Flash), he's freaking powerful.


----------



## Endless Mike (Oct 6, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:
			
		

> save it, i show you canon stuff all the time and u discredit it because you simply dont beleive its true.



Hardly surprising considering your reputation to edit scans and such.....


----------



## jplaya2023 (Oct 6, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> Hardly surprising considering your reputation to edit scans and such.....



nope i show direct links to canon and u still cry. 

And editing scans is a CBG made up rumor


----------



## Endless Mike (Oct 6, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:
			
		

> nope i show direct links to canon and u still cry.
> 
> And editing scans is a CBG made up rumor



No it's not, I saw you do it myself, just when he did.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 6, 2006)

> nope i show direct links to canon and u still cry.
> 
> *And editing scans is a CBG made up rumor*



If that was a rumour, then I must possess an IQ surpassing both Stephen Hawking and Einstein combined.

If you can't recognize sarcasm, then that's sad.

You do edit scans, if not, then posted editted scans and tried to pathetically pass them off as legitimate.

Hell, I bet you don't even know what issue you got the page from.

Ever read Superman/Batman #2?

Do you even know what happened in the issue?


----------



## jplaya2023 (Oct 6, 2006)

Comic Book Guy said:
			
		

> Ever read Superman/Batman #2?




I'm quite familiar with that piece of work. In part 1 they fight a raged brainiac that was about to kill superman until batman showed up and saved the day. Then this other older superman appears in the batcave starts wrecking shit whooping superman's ass until batman saves the day and gives superman and opening to shoot him with the K-gun


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 6, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:
			
		

> I'm quite familiar with that piece of work. *In part 1 they fight a raged brainiac*



*ALREADY, YOU'RE DEAD WRONG.*

It was Metallo that they fought. I don't even think Brainiac ever fought the two of them in Superman/Batman.



			
				jplaya2023 said:
			
		

> that was about to kill superman until batman showed up and saved the day.



If you count being buried alive in a cemetary and escaping. Not to mention Metallo got away. Yes, Batman had them escape. Alfred helped extract the Kryptonite bullet.



> Then this other older superman appears in the batcave starts wrecking shit whooping superman's ass until batman saves the day and gives superman



After being slapped around and the older Superman ABOUT TO KILL HIM by crushing him with his own Batmobile (the campy 1960s Adam West one, if I'm not mistaken).



			
				jplaya2023 said:
			
		

> and opening to shoot him with the K-gun



With Batman in a near-death situation. The older Superman completely had Batman at his mercy, since he released his moral inhibitions. He came back to kill Superman, after all.

Issue #1 and #2 summaries


----------



## jplaya2023 (Oct 6, 2006)

Comic Book Guy said:
			
		

> *ALREADY, YOU'RE DEAD WRONG.*
> 
> It was Metallo that they fought. I don't even think Brainiac ever fought the two of them in Superman/Batman.
> 
> ...



i got both of em


----------



## Galt (Oct 6, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:
			
		

> batman is never at anyone's mercy u have that mixed up




*cough*Knightfall*cough*


----------



## jplaya2023 (Oct 6, 2006)

Galt said:
			
		

> *cough*Knightfall*cough*




*cough* non canon out of continuity bullshit batman was poorly written*cough*


----------



## Galt (Oct 6, 2006)

Noncanon?  Out of continuity?  What are you smoking, and how much do you pay for it?  I'm pretty sure the damn arc's been referenced as recently as Justice League #00.  Plus Batman: Knightfall met with great acclaim, and is considered one of the greater Batman story arcs.  Or do you simply prefer the lie that any time a hero loses, even temporarily, it's noncanon?


----------



## jplaya2023 (Oct 6, 2006)

Galt said:
			
		

> Noncanon?  Out of continuity?  What are you smoking, and how much do you pay for it?  I'm pretty sure the damn arc's been referenced as recently as Justice League #00.  Plus Batman: Knightfall met with great acclaim, and is considered one of the greater Batman story arcs.  Or do you simply prefer the lie that any time a hero loses, even temporarily, it's noncanon?


it was all retconned


----------



## Galt (Oct 6, 2006)

It was not retconned, the arc introduced Bane himself, and Bane has shown up as recently as Infinite Crisis #7 and is going to star in the story arc "The Venom Connection."  So unless you have an alternate explanation for Bane's existence, you can't BS your way into Knightfall being considered non-canon.


----------



## jplaya2023 (Oct 6, 2006)

Galt said:
			
		

> It was not retconned, the arc introduced Bane himself, and Bane has shown up as recently as Infinite Crisis #7 and is going to star in the story arc "The Venom Connection."  So unless you have an alternate explanation for Bane's existence, you can't BS your way into Knightfall being considered non-canon.




last second addition for that particular instance


----------



## Galt (Oct 6, 2006)

Yes, granted Bane's part in Infinite Crisis 7 is rather questionable since he supposedly reformed or something, but the point is his character is still DC canon, and there is no other introduction of him other than Knightfall, so unless there's a totally different explanation out there of who he is, where he came from, and why he is significant at all, Knightfall is IT.  And the fact is that in any case nothing whatsoever has stated Knightfall to be non-canon.  It was part of the original one-two punch of superman "dying" and batman getting gruesomely crippled.  Both of them came back in time, but NOTHING WHATSOEVER was said to take either of these stories out of DC continuity.  Batman recovered, and Superman was discovered to not be dead.  However, the stories are perfectly canon either way.


----------



## jplaya2023 (Oct 6, 2006)

Galt said:
			
		

> Yes, granted Bane's part in Infinite Crisis 7 is rather questionable since he supposedly reformed or something, but the point is his character is still DC canon, and there is no other introduction of him other than Knightfall, so unless there's a totally different explanation out there of who he is, where he came from, and why he is significant at all, Knightfall is IT.  And the fact is that in any case nothing whatsoever has stated Knightfall to be non-canon.  It was part of the original one-two punch of superman "dying" and batman getting gruesomely crippled.  Both of them came back in time, but NOTHING WHATSOEVER was said to take either of these stories out of DC continuity.  Batman recovered, and Superman was discovered to not be dead.  However, the stories are perfectly canon either way.



*sigh*

it all comes down to bad writing, batman was written incorrectly hence making it non canon


----------



## Galt (Oct 6, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:
			
		

> *sigh*
> 
> it all comes down to bad writing, batman was written incorrectly hence making it non canon



Bullshit.  Spiderman beat Firelord that one time, that was stupid and make no sense and someone was obviously pulling plot-devices out of their ass, but it's still canon.  Just because you don't like the writing, bad or not, doesn't make something non-canon, or else everything going on with Cassandra Cain since Infinite Crisis (definitely a case of bad, though) would be considered non-canon.  Oh god how we all wish it would be, though.


----------



## jplaya2023 (Oct 6, 2006)

Galt said:
			
		

> Bullshit.  Spiderman beat Firelord that one time, that was stupid and make no sense and someone was obviously pulling plot-devices out of their ass, but it's still canon.  Just because you don't like the writing, bad or not, doesn't make something non-canon, or else everything going on with Cassandra Cain since Infinite Crisis (definitely a case of bad, though) would be considered non-canon.  Oh god how we all wish it would be, though.



Spiderman has been known to pull out ways to win battles thats ok. It was like i didnt even know that was batman all the mistakes he made. It was disgusting


----------



## Endless Mike (Oct 6, 2006)

Just because you don't like something doesn't make it non - canon.


----------



## Havoc (Oct 6, 2006)

Magneto will throw a bus full of children on top of Goku, he'd be stuck under it forever since he isn't strong enough to lift it off him.


----------



## SoulTaker (Oct 6, 2006)

Batman has been at the mercy of Lady Shiva for years.He is at the mercy of the 7 martial artists in front of him in the DCU,and also at the mercy of numerous characters if they decide to get serious.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 6, 2006)

> your right, i have no clue why i said brainiac?



Because you haven't read it, perhaps? Or just make up stuff.



> batman's plan



Yeah, planned to be buried alive? Real smart.

Sarcasm, if you can't recognize it.



> if thats how u perceived it okay its your perception



Care to tell me how Batman would have countered WITHOUT Clark's help?



> batman is never at anyone's mercy u have that mixed up



No, you just _think_ he's invincible.

If he was, he wouldn't have been crippled by Bane.



> i got both of em



Yet still can't remember worth's.



> *cough* non canon out of continuity bullshit batman was poorly written*cough*
> 
> it was all retconned



*DEAD WRONG.*

It's in continuity. Yes, even post-Infinite Crisis continuity. 52 Week 6 (if not, give or take an issue).

You don't believe me?

*DC HAS IT ON ITS OFFICIAL SITE. TRY DISPROVING THAT.*





> *sigh*
> 
> it all comes down to bad writing, batman was written incorrectly hence making it non canon



It's canon.

Bane used his cunning to gain the upper hand on Batman and CRIPPLED him.

I'd pay to see you disagree with Didio and the rest of the DC staff in the present, with regards to how Batman's written. Heck, I'd pay to see you disagree with Jenette Kahn.



> Bullshit. Spiderman beat Firelord that one time, that was stupid and make no sense and someone was obviously pulling plot-devices out of their ass, but it's still canon. Just because you don't like the writing, bad or not, doesn't make something non-canon, *or else everything going on with Cassandra Cain since Infinite Crisis (definitely a case of bad, though) would be considered non-canon. Oh god how we all wish it would be, though. *



Damn you Beechen! How dare you! If Geoff Johns doesn't restore the character -- or any DC writer handling her -- I swear that once I grow up, I'll become employed under DC Comics and bring her the justice she deserves! *So I swear!*



> Spiderman has been known to pull out ways to win battles thats ok. It was like i didnt even know that was batman all the mistakes he made. It was disgusting



Spider-Man was BEATEN TO DEATH by Morlun. Spider-Man: The Other.

Don't believe me? Take your whining case to Joe Quesada and the rest of the Marvel staff.


----------



## jplaya2023 (Oct 6, 2006)

Comic Book Guy said:
			
		

> Because you haven't read it, perhaps? Or just make up stuff.
> 
> *
> nope i read it just a slight oversight*
> ...



whose whining im just posting facts


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 6, 2006)

> nope i read it just a slight oversight



I seriously doubt it, with your credit record.



> nope plan on prep time to fight and own as always



Which ends up being buried alive with Superman and Corben getting away.



> easy, ninjitsu,



Not against a guy who can move faster than you can.



> joker gas bomb,



*RIDICULOUS.*

You really think Batman would use -- hell forget that, carry even -- Joker Gas Bomb, which Joker designed to have his victims _die_ laughing?



> hand 2 hand,



Future Clark won't let him. Future Clark would speed-blitz him or fry him with wide-arc heat vision.



> speed blitz,



Yeah, Batman will die from future Superman speed-blitzing him.



> or some good ole green rock.



Now I know you haven't read Superman/Batman #2.

What did you think Batman was going to his vault for? To retrive Kryptonite Ring, *which he didn't have on him*.

Heck, Future Clark confirms himself that Bruce only brings the Kryptonite Ring with him whenever he goes to Metropolis.



> nope your just bias



As many posters said here,

"Pot calling the kettle black."



> *sigh* what part of bad writing does not compute with you



A fact that it made sales. Lots of sales, for that matter. And that's one of the few reasons.



> hacked



Yep. I officially discreditted you.



> no



Oh, yes it is. It so is. 52 Week 6, pick up the comic. Go to that site again.

Heck, go ask DC writers themselves via e-mail. You're just really digging a hole, in denying.



> bad writing underestimating batman who is the smartest man (Strategy wise) in all of DC



Lucifer's cunning > Batman with prep-time.



> I'd pay to see u and enless mike disagree with AT and his staff on the speed and power of the Z senshi



If that happened, we can solidly confirm two things that everyone will agree about, and that is already known (save to you, who just deny, deny, and deny).

The first and concrete fact that DBZ is *NOT* the strongest fiction.

The second concrete fact is that Goku or SSJ4 Gogeta is *NOT* the most powerful character in fiction.



> again bad writing



Look up Spider-Man: The Other. If you're really a fanboy of Spider-Man that much, you would have read it.



> whose whining im just posting facts



No, the majority of the things you post is pure, grade A *fanboyism*.


----------



## Deleted member 45015 (Oct 6, 2006)

Instant Transmission + Point-Blank Ki Beam = Dead Magneto


----------



## Chakra Cyclone (Oct 6, 2006)

Goku would destroy magneto, he can move so fast that there would be no way for magneto to rip the metal from his body. Magneto=doomed


----------



## Shidoshi (Oct 6, 2006)

Gaelek_13 said:
			
		

> Instant Transmission + Point-Blank Ki Beam = Dead Magneto


If any of Gokuu's energy waves are electromagnetic in nature, and there's no reason why they wouldn't be, then Magneto could essentially reflect/refract, deflect or otherwise control any of Gokuu's energy attacks and send them back to him.


----------



## jplaya2023 (Oct 6, 2006)

Comic Book Guy said:
			
		

> I seriously doubt it, with your credit record.
> 
> 
> *you just have something against me, why i dont know*
> ...




grade a faction


----------



## jplaya2023 (Oct 6, 2006)

Shidoshi said:
			
		

> If any of Gokuu's energy waves are electromagnetic in nature, and there's no reason why they wouldn't be, then Magneto could essentially reflect/refract, deflect or otherwise control any of Gokuu's energy attacks and send them back to him.




ki is not electromagnetic energy


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 6, 2006)

> you just have something against me, why i dont know



You fanboyism, arrogance, and self-conceit. It's intolerable.



> more hate



It's the truth.



> batman is ftl proven by him dodging omega beams which move ftl



*WRONG!*

DCAU is not DCU. DCAU Omega Beams weren't FTL.

Plus, Batman emitted no sonic boom. His human body doesn't have the capability to perform a sonic boom.



> why woudlnt he, and against someone like superman who he hates anyway, nothing better than to send clark out with a smile



*WRONG!*

Prove to me that Batman uses Joker Gas?



> negative batman's speed is to great to he blitz by an undiscliplined fighter



Tell that to future Clark, who was about to crush him with his own Batmobile.



> other way around



Only in Bizarro World.



> i can post scans if u like



Oh, please do. PLEASE DO.



> my definition of bad writing



Last I checked, you didn't write Long Halloween, Hush, Dark Victory, or Superman/Batman, or are associated with Smallville. You're not Jeph Loeb.



> i know



Sure you did.



> use your own adivce



No, that doesn't apply to me here. Only to you.



> grade a faction



In Bizarro World.


----------



## jplaya2023 (Oct 6, 2006)

Comic Book Guy said:
			
		

> You fanboyism, arrogance, and self-conceit. It's intolerable.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




bam now what



apologize and leave


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 7, 2006)

> bam now what



Now you decide not to edit scans, eh? One small step I succeeded in imparting in you, even if it is most likely a temporary step.

And mine. Superman/Batman #2.





> apologize and leave



For what? Correcting your mistakes?

If anyone should apologize, it should be you for imposing your delusions and fanboyism on us posters of Naruto Forums.


----------



## jplaya2023 (Oct 7, 2006)

Comic Book Guy said:
			
		

> Now you decide not to edit scans, eh? One small step I succeeded in imparting in you, even if it is most likely a temporary step.
> 
> And mine. Superman/Batman #2.
> 
> ...




so we both read it. What now?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 7, 2006)

> so we both read it. What now?



First step is to accept that Goku, Batman, Spider-Man, Ryu, and the rest of the DBZverse are not more powerful than fiction.

There are characters that can solo the DBZverse. There are characters that are vastly more powerful than Batman and Spider-Man, and there are warriors more powerful than Ryu.


----------



## jplaya2023 (Oct 7, 2006)

Comic Book Guy said:
			
		

> First step is to accept that Goku, Batman, Spider-Man, Ryu, and the rest of the DBZverse are not more powerful than fiction.
> 
> 
> *but then i would be lying*
> ...



In a straight up fight (no cheating) no outside forces can compete with dbz


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 7, 2006)

> but then i would be lying



No, you would be denying.



> In a straight up fight (no cheating) no outside forces can compete with dbz



All-out?

DBZ would get slaughtered so many ways to any day of the week against certain outside forces.

No cheating? How naive.


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Oct 7, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:
			
		

> In a straight up fight (no cheating) no outside forces can compete with dbz



........
Erica from my novel decimates Dbz.


----------



## jplaya2023 (Oct 7, 2006)

The Chaucer Boo said:
			
		

> ........
> Erica from my novel decimates Dbz.




dont be a fanboy


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Oct 7, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:
			
		

> dont be a fanboy



...
 

/

 

/

 

/

:can


----------



## Shidoshi (Oct 7, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:
			
		

> ki is not electromagnetic energy


The 'ki' in his body is energy, what proof do you have that it's not electromagnetic in nature?

Even "heat" has an electromagnetic component.

Notice how I didn't say he'd control Gokuu's 'ki', but Gokuu's 'ki'-converted energy waves, like the Kamehameha.


----------



## Endless Mike (Oct 7, 2006)

Would someone just ban jplaya already?


----------



## Deleted member 45015 (Oct 7, 2006)

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Gaelek_13
> Instant Transmission + Point-Blank Ki Beam = Dead Magneto
> 
> If any of Gokuu's energy waves are electromagnetic in nature, and there's no reason why they wouldn't be, then Magneto could essentially reflect/refract, deflect or otherwise control any of Gokuu's energy attacks and send them back to him.



You raise a good point and indeed, Maggy at his full potential could very likely do that. Unfortunately we have no real evidence that Ki is electromagnetic in nature...all we do have is that it's your bodies 'life' energy given form. That said I don't think Maggy could reflect it.

Even if he could...I said point blank range....

Even so, another winning combo for Goku is: Instant Transmission + Dragon Fist = Dead Magneto


----------



## G-Wolf (Oct 7, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:
			
		

> dude hates goku so much he beleives normal humans are able to perceive fights all the way through the buu saga



They move faster than the eye can see for a short time,not the whole fight and their thousand of times faster than a human.


----------



## Endless Mike (Oct 7, 2006)

Gaelek_13 said:
			
		

> You raise a good point and indeed, Maggy at his full potential could very likely do that. Unfortunately we have no real evidence that Ki is electromagnetic in nature...all we do have is that it's your bodies 'life' energy given form. That said I don't think Maggy could reflect it.
> 
> Even if he could...I said point blank range....
> 
> Even so, another winning combo for Goku is: Instant Transmission + Dragon Fist = Dead Magneto



Except that attack is non - canon, and there's no proof it would penetrate his shields anyway, and he could just attack when Goku appears.


----------



## G-Wolf (Oct 7, 2006)

Shidoshi said:
			
		

> The 'ki' in his body is energy, what proof do you have that it's not electromagnetic in nature?
> 
> Even "heat" has an electromagnetic component.
> 
> Notice how I didn't say he'd control Gokuu's 'ki', but Gokuu's 'ki'-converted energy waves, like the Kamehameha.



Ki is life energy not electric energy.If it were then weak characters that have been hit by a kameha or a ki blast would be electrocuted.So I doubt it has electricity in it and you can't prove that it has either.


----------



## Endless Mike (Oct 7, 2006)

G-Wolf said:
			
		

> Ki is life energy not electric energy.If it were then weak characters that have been hit by a kameha or a ki blast would be electrocuted.So I doubt it has electricity in it and you can't prove that it has either.



You do know that electromagnetic energy =/= electricity, right?

Radio waves, gamma rays, infrared, ultraviolet, and visible light, for example, are all part of the electromagnetic spectrum.


----------



## G-Wolf (Oct 7, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> You do know that electromagnetic energy =/= electricity, right?
> 
> Radio waves, gamma rays, infrared, ultraviolet, and visible light, for example, are all part of the electromagnetic spectrum.



Whatever,you still can't prove that ki has electromagnetic energy in it.


----------



## Endless Mike (Oct 7, 2006)

G-Wolf said:
			
		

> Whatever,you still can't prove that ki has electromagnetic energy in it.



It emits light, that's an indicator....


----------



## G-Wolf (Oct 7, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> It emits light, that's an indicator....



Well I don't really know much about electromagnetic energy,I never learned about it at school.


----------



## Endless Mike (Oct 7, 2006)

G-Wolf said:
			
		

> Well I don't really know much about electromagnetic energy,I never learned about it at school.



Then why are you trying to get in a debate about it?


----------



## G-Wolf (Oct 7, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> Then why are you trying to get in a debate about it?



Well I thought that you guys were talking about electricity.


----------



## Shidoshi (Oct 7, 2006)

G-Wolf said:
			
		

> Well I thought that you guys were talking about electricity.


Even though at Super Saiyajin 2 and above, there are bolts of electricity that permeate their auras when powered up.

*That's* a damn good indicator that 'ki' is electromagnetic in nature.

Besides the fact that it gives off visible light.


----------



## blacklusterseph004 (Oct 7, 2006)

Shidoshi said:
			
		

> That's a damn good indicator that 'ki' is electromagnetic in nature.


 Not really. That may be just how ki reacts with air. Or more likely, just a particular radiation it happens to emit. That says nothing about whether or not it's an electromagnetic wave. Even when they fight in places with high gravity, there is no deflection in a Kamehameha's path. Dbz characters can make ki blots/balls move at any speed they want and the bolt will still emit light or sparks. The level of control they have over the movement of the energy should indicate that any elctromagnetic radiation from ki is more likely a side effect of it's presence in the real world rather than it's true nature.


----------



## Shidoshi (Oct 7, 2006)

blacklusterseph004 said:
			
		

> Not really. That may be just how ki reacts with air.


If Super Saiyajin 2/3 'ki' causes air to ionize (and produce sparks), then it permeates an electric field...something for Magneto to manipulate. 


> _Or more likely, just a particular radiation it happens to emit._


Radiation that's *not* electromagnetic in nature? 


> _That says nothing about whether or not it's an electromagnetic wave._


It doesn't have to be an electromagnetic _wave_, it could be a quantum particle like a photon, to which even that yield's to Magneto's control. 


> _Even when they fight in places with high gravity, there is no deflection in a Kamehameha's path._


_Gokuu's trip to Namek in which he trains in high gravity:  his energy waves' paths bend around the gravity generator and fly back toward him to hit him in the chest so he could damage himself near death to heal to gain the increase.

Even still, what kind of radiation do you know of that *isn't* electromagnetic in nature?




Dbz characters can make ki blots/balls move at any speed they want and the bolt will still emit light or sparks. The level of control they have over the movement of the energy should indicate that any elctromagnetic radiation from ki is more likely a side effect of it's presence in the real world rather than it's true nature.

Click to expand...

The amount of control they have over their energy waves has nothing to do with it's probable form of energy.

Not only do their energy attacks give off visible light, but their auras, the representation of their 'ki', give off visible light also (reference Yakkon "eating" Gokuu's aura's because it gave off "light").  If 'ki' is energy (as has been stated various times in the DB manga), what proof do you have that it's not electromagnetic in nature or has an E-M component?_


----------



## jplaya2023 (Oct 8, 2006)

Shidoshi said:
			
		

> If Super Saiyajin 2/3 'ki' causes air to ionize (and produce sparks), then it permeates an electric field...something for Magneto to manipulate.



No, it was just an extra affect AT drew to help readers point out the difference between a ssj1 and a ssj2


----------



## -{BioShock}- (Oct 8, 2006)

Definitely Goku, Magneto doesnt really have much of a chance. Goku is just to god damn quick.


----------



## blacklusterseph004 (Oct 8, 2006)

Shidoshi said:
			
		

> If Super Saiyajin 2/3 'ki' causes air to ionize (and produce sparks), then it permeates an electric field...something for Magneto to manipulate.


True enough, though Magneto being able to manipulate it doesn't mean that the he can manipulate the ki. I'll try to explain below.



> Radiation that's not electromagnetic in nature?


You misunderstand. It definitely gives off light, but as I mentioned previously, the light is just radiation the ki gives off. The ki itself doesn't neccessarily have to be electromagnetic for this to happen.



> Gokuu's trip to Namek in which he trains in high gravity: his energy waves' paths bend around the gravity generator and fly back toward him to hit him in the chest so he could damage himself near death to heal to gain the increase.
> 
> Even still, what kind of radiation do you know of that isn't electromagnetic in nature?


If that were the centre of the gravity, Goku would have been standing on it. The two bolts were more than likely sent on a curving path by Goku himself (seeing as he shot one bolt in one direction, and tried to cancel it from the other but missed).

I'm not saying that ki doesn't give off light, and I'm not saying that light isn't in the em spectrum. What I'm saying is that while the light is a radiation, the ki more than likely isn't. It seems to be more like some force that just happens to radiate light, while not being electromagnetic in nature itself.



> It doesn't have to be an electromagnetic wave, it could be a quantum particle like a photon, to which even that yield's to Magneto's control.


Quantum particles already unpredictable enough without assuming some unkown quantum particle obeys the laws of electromagnetics.



> The amount of control they have over their energy waves has nothing to do with it's probable form of energy.
> 
> Not only do their energy attacks give off visible light, but their auras, the representation of their 'ki', give off visible light also (reference Yakkon "eating" Gokuu's aura's because it gave off "light"). If 'ki' is energy (as has been stated various times in the DB manga), what proof do you have that it's not electromagnetic in nature or has an E-M component?


I don't have proof, but I make the assumption based on it's peculiar properties. The only things it has in common with EM waves are the fact that it gives off light.

In numerous cases when a dbz char powers up, there is visible ki around them, however, their ki can also end up breaking apart objects nowhere near them. In the Piccolo vs 17 fight, they attack each other from range with invisible ki. Not only that, ki doesn't just radiate, it can be controlled in very complex movement patterns such as stopping and changing direction, even forming binding rings (majin vegeta vs. goku). Remember also, that dbz characters use ki to fly, 'pushing' it from their centres constantly (I think that was gohan's explanation). If ki were EM in nature, their ability to fly would be impaired everytime a ki bolt passed close to them, or even in fighting on a planet with unfamiliar gravity.


----------



## Darklyre (Oct 8, 2006)

blacklusterseph004 said:
			
		

> If ki were EM in nature, their ability to fly would be impaired everytime a ki bolt passed close to them, or even in fighting on a planet with unfamiliar gravity.



Yeah, it's called dodging.


----------



## blacklusterseph004 (Oct 9, 2006)

> Yeah, it's called dodging.


The fact that they dodge shows that their flying and their control of ki is in fact not impaired.


----------



## Envy (Oct 9, 2006)

G-Wolf said:
			
		

> Well I thought that you guys were talking about electricity.



This kid needs to die in a fire.


----------



## ecelipse (Oct 10, 2006)

goku pwns magneto


----------



## Endless Mike (Oct 10, 2006)

ecelipse said:
			
		

> goku pwns magneto



P/E/R/A?


----------



## ecelipse (Oct 10, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> P/E/R/A?



what the hell you mean


----------



## Endless Mike (Oct 10, 2006)

ecelipse said:
			
		

> what the hell you mean



Proof?
Evidence?
Reasoning?
Anything?


----------



## ecelipse (Oct 10, 2006)

well magneto can only moved steal.if magneto throw a dozen tones of titanium goku can just punch it away or goku teleports behind mgneto and kills him.


----------



## Endless Mike (Oct 10, 2006)

ecelipse said:
			
		

> well magneto can only moved steal.if magneto throw a dozen tones of titanium goku can just punch it away or goku teleports behind mgneto and kills him.



Obviously you know nothing of Magneto beyond a short, inaccurate description.

He controls the entire electromagnetic spectrum and could just kill Goku by ripping the iron out of his blood.


----------



## ecelipse (Oct 10, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> Obviously you know nothing of Magneto beyond a short, inaccurate description.
> 
> He controls the entire electromagnetic spectrum and could just kill Goku by ripping the iron out of his blood.



before he can do that goku warps behind that crapy oldman and kill him.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Oct 10, 2006)

Read earlier pages.

Magneto can rip out the iron in Goku's blood or gives him an aneurysm.

It's all whether Magneto can get his shield up in time before Goku can strike first.


----------



## Endless Mike (Oct 10, 2006)

ecelipse said:
			
		

> before he can do that goku warps behind that crapy oldman and kill him.



Except Magneto's shields can activate automatically and he has heightened reflexes and reaction time.


----------



## Gunshin (Oct 10, 2006)

Really.. people shouldn't use Quicksilver as proof that Magneto can easily deal with Speedbliters... Quicksilver is a jobber. Plain and simple. Come on... Spidey beat Quicksilver by holding his arm out. Then Spidey gets hit by everything Captain America throws at him in Civil War and comments about how quick he is. 

If this fight takes place outside of Marvel writers hands... Goku speedblitz / instant transmissions behind Magneto and KO's him. If this is a bloodlusted battle, Goku teleports far far far away from Magneto, throws a planet buster at the ground, and then teleports to another planet he's been on.


----------



## Endless Mike (Oct 10, 2006)

You can't just ignore canon events.


----------



## Gunshin (Oct 10, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> You can't just ignore canon events.


Like Squirrel Girl vs Thanos and Dr. Doom.. and using QS as an example only proves that Magneto can beat Goku if he jobbs to him. BTW - Has Magneto ever beat QS when QS really wanted to kill him and there was no talking, hesitating, or storyline in the way? Eitherway, people much slower than QS have tagged Magneto. So I have no doubt that Goku would be able to tag Magneto once.. especially since he can teleport as well.

PS. Even if its canon, PIS and CIS shouldn't be considered as evidence.


----------



## Endless Mike (Oct 10, 2006)

Considering Magneto has taken attacks from FTL guys and survived, this won't be a problem.


----------



## Havoc (Oct 10, 2006)

Gunshin said:
			
		

> Really.. people shouldn't use Quicksilver as proof that Magneto can easily deal with Speedbliters... Quicksilver is a jobber. Plain and simple. Come on... Spidey beat Quicksilver by holding his arm out. Then Spidey gets hit by everything Captain America throws at him in Civil War and comments about how quick he is.
> 
> If this fight takes place outside of Marvel writers hands... Goku speedblitz / instant transmissions behind Magneto and KO's him. If this is a bloodlusted battle, Goku teleports far far far away from Magneto, throws a planet buster at the ground, and then teleports to another planet he's been on.




Flash ran into a sword, that doesn't make him not a formidable speedster.


----------



## Gunshin (Oct 10, 2006)

Havoc said:
			
		

> Flash ran into a sword, that doesn't make him not a formidable speedster.


PIS~ it shouldn't have happened.


----------



## Endless Mike (Oct 10, 2006)

Gunshin said:
			
		

> PIS~ it shouldn't have happened.



Yet it did, and it has to be reconciled with his other showings.


----------



## Gunshin (Oct 10, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> Yet it did, and it has to be reconciled with his other showings.


And the majority of Magneto's showings don't show him with reflexes faster than the speed of sound... wait.. aparently the speed of light (would love to read about what happen there). So reconcile that. 

Oh- and the Flash running into a sword is very inconsist with how his powers were described to work. Same as QS vs everyone that owned him. So sure.. you can yell "canon" and get a cheap win because of a case of PIS, but all you're really proving in the end is that the writer of the character you support is more retarded and inconsistant than the character you're against... and DBZ is really bad.


----------



## konflikti (Oct 10, 2006)

I kinda agree with Gunshin here. Magneto isn't in the position to school speedsters by default. I can't remember what comic it was but there is this one where Mag threatens once again someone/world with nukes. Quicksilver changes sides and snatches Magnetos helm without him being able to do anything about it. That leaves him open to Xavier and he saves the day.

I think Goku has relatively good chance to kill Mags before he erects his shields.


----------



## superbatman86 (Oct 10, 2006)

konflikti said:
			
		

> I kinda agree with Gunshin here. Magneto isn't in the position to school speedsters by default. I can't remember what comic it was but there is this one where Mag threatens once again someone/world with nukes. Quicksilver changes sides and snatches Magnetos helm without him being able to do anything about it. That leaves him open to Xavier and he saves the day.
> 
> I think Goku has relatively good chance to kill Mags before he erects his shields.


That was in Ultimate X-men but 616 QS could do the same.


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## Comic Book Guy (Oct 10, 2006)

Curious. . . is Ultimate Quicksilver faster than his 616 counterpart? I've yet to read the Ultimate X-Men comics yet (only read the first 2 volumes -- I have the rest up to #70, but yet to read it), and I heard he's able to move at lightspeed.


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## Guy Gardner (Oct 10, 2006)

Apparently Ultimate Quicksilver was hitting "Mach 10 when first started getting pimples". He's a helluva lot faster than anyone here is giving him credit for. Also, the fact that, well, he's Magneto's son sort of stopping him from achieving ultimate victory.


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## Comic Book Guy (Oct 10, 2006)

Yeah. I know that those issues kind of impedes on his powers.

Not sure what effect of an incestual relationship with his sister has upon his powers.


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## korican04 (Oct 10, 2006)

Wolverine walked up to magneto and stabbed him in the chest in eve of destruction. Where was that automatic sheild then? It was pretty funny, prof X yells out NNNOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! and starts crying.

I couldn't figure out if xavier was still holding mags powers in check though, i thought he had stopped but I could be wrong i don't remember.


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## TheStoryMaster (Oct 10, 2006)

hmm, not sure if it's mentioned before.

I think Magneto will need some shield around him.  Since you see Goku eat regular food, there must be some sort of metal in him.  If Magneto know he is there, he'll die for sure.  If he teleports to close, the shield can rip him to pieces.

Magneto wins =P


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