# Kakashi vs. Ei



## Jiraiya4Life (Nov 10, 2014)

Kakashi vs. Ei

Battle Info
Distance: 30 Meters
Location: VOTE
Mindset: Both in-character
Restrictions: None
Character info: This is war-arc kakashi before obito powerups.


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## Jiraiya4Life (Nov 10, 2014)

I have a friend who thinks the Raikage would destroy Kakashi...I think he is wrong haha


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## ARGUS (Nov 10, 2014)

Ay wins this mid diff 

 - Kakashi is not tracking V2 Ay at all, meaning that kamui is not being landed at Ay at all, 

 - Kakashi has no way whatsoever to even react to V2 Ay, meaning that once his Kamui fails, he ends up gettting ragdolled by Ay, and then killed by a liger bomb, and unlike sasuke he has no defense to prevent himself  from getting killed 

 - His lightning blade is also non factor when he has no hopes of landing a single hit on Ay, nor does it have the powerr to breach through his RNY


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## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 10, 2014)

A rapes. The moment Kakashi switches to MS, A does the exact same thing he did against Sasuke, and uses his max speed and takes Kakashi's head with a Lariat. Sadly, Kakashi doesn't have ribcage Susano'o + enton to protect himself from a blitz.


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## Invictus-Kun (Nov 10, 2014)

Assuming Kakashi will just stand there and watch his ass getting whipped. And Boom, just a clone, and Kakashi Kamui's Ei Head. The end of short bloody Story


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## Vagrant Tom (Nov 10, 2014)

Ei may be faster but that is not how Kakashi fights. Kakashi never tries to compete with enemies with speed or power and of course if your hypothetical scenario involves Kakshi trying to outdo Ei in a direct fight, he'll lose.

Ei attacks Kakashi, find out it was actually a raiton kage bunshin. It won't hurt Ei but should make him pause for a second. And during that second Kakashi pops his head out of the ground (he had been hiding with a doton) and kamuis him. 

Kakashi has got some very fast Kamui reaction feats. Such as half kamui'ing Obito before Sennin Madara could him him. Sure it was only half a kamui but this is against the fastest thing in the manga.


Anyway, Kakashi is smarter and more versatile. Different fighting styles, but Ei's charge and kill is just playing into Kakashi's strategic style.


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## ARGUS (Nov 10, 2014)

Invictus-Kun said:


> Assuming Kakashi will just stand there and watch his ass getting whipped. And Boom, just a clone, and Kakashi Kamui's Ei Head. The end of short bloody Story



kamui is not working when kakashi cant even track his target 
the jutsu is still based on kakashis LoS and seeing how he cant even locate Ay, means that he gets his head chopped before he even knows what has happened


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 10, 2014)

With no susano to defend himself 

Ay should comfortably destroy kakashi.


His speed ensure's kamui isn't landing.


His ration should be able to negate the effects of a ration bushin.

His power should also rap things up quickly.


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## Mercurial (Nov 10, 2014)

If Kakashi wants to insta warp away Ei, he is done. He is not reacting or coutering a point blank executed Kamui at all. Reacting and dodging Amaterasu means nothing when Amaterasu wasn't used quickly, letting him having the time to go V2, and when Kamui is far, far, far faster than Amaterasu. If someone needs an argument on why Amaterasu's <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Kakashi's one eyed Kamui, well I don't think it should be really needed LoL but it's under the spoiler.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Manga panels are available to everyone, and nearly everyone says than Kamui >>> Amaterasu. Not accounting the other Kamui powers (teleporting, phasing, shooting warped things) or DMS/Rikudo version obviously. Amaterasu it's at best comparable to early Shippuden Kakashi's Kamui, and when it was used without any charge to warp away a forest-sized explosion... not, not even.

Kamui is faster. Better. More haxxed. Nearly uncounterable while the other has been countered in so many ways I forgot, and there are a lot of more other counters. Everything Amaterasu can do: Kamui can warp. That should be enough:

MS Kakashi's Kamui by Madara (chapter 659)

​
EMS Sasuke's Amaterasu by Madara (chapter 657)

​
Fucking Edo fucking Itachi's casting of Amaterasu is slower than Killer Bee fucking throwing a fucking sword (1) that is dodged with ease by fucking base Fuu (2). Kakashi with long range Kamui could warp head sized objects in the same window of time of Obito's intangibility and of a movement of 5 cm from KCM Naruto, or before being hit by something kicked by SM Juubi jinchuriki Madara while being already touched by it, human sized masses so fast that people with full knowledge and top notch reflexes boosted by Mangekyo Sharingan and Rinnegan vision couldn't perceive the warping happening in front of their eyes (namely Obito ofc) and that before a Kamui shooted stake that was hitting BM Naruto could move for more than a couple of cm, giant sized masses in the same time of the instant summon of the Summoning Jutsu, with KCM Minato not being able to tell what happened. 

Offensive Kamui (if you want strictly offensive feats, no supporting or defense) could warp away a Gedo Mazo arm while he was summoned with S/T, in no time, with KCM Minato not being able to register what happened. Just think how big the Gedo's arm is, how much time is needed to summon something once Kuchiyose no jutsu has started, how high is KCM Minato's perception and his reflexes.

Not even going for DMS Rikudo Kakashi that can use Kamui so fast that it outspeeds Kaguya's S/T that blitzed Rinnegan Rikudo Sasuke. I don't think I need to say anything else.




If Ei goes V1 and tries to attack Kakashi, he is screwed. Sasuke could dodge his blow with ease and counter hit with Chidori. Kakashi's speed, reactions and taijutsu skills are a good deal above Sasuke's, he would dodge and counter hit Ei with much more ease. But he uses Raikiri, that is > Chidori, and if Chidori pierced Ei and the Raiton no Yoroi, I'd guess the stronger Raikiri could pierce him deadly. But let's assume it would pierce him but not enough to reach the heart: 99 times on 100 Kakashi would be fooling his opponent with a Kage Bunshin, if he could fool Itachi's Sharingan (3) and Pain's Rinnegan (4) in quick and brief istances, he could definitely fool Ei. Ei will then grab and Liger Bomb a Kage Bunshin, when Kakashi would blitz him from behind thanks to the surprise and pierce his head with Raikiri kunai, or cut off with Raiden. Kakashi could also simply warp him away with Kamui, either if Ei runs straight to him or if he is fooled with the Kage Bunshin feint. Kakashi could also just run straight against Ei with Raiden and cut him in half, Raiden is RaikiriX2 so if is arguable if Raikiri would pierce him, Raiden would definitely cut him; V1 Ei is as fast as not serious and no Shunshin KCM Naruto, Obito was easily keeping up with that speed (5), and Kakashi outperformed it more than once (6)(7). Add Sharingan precognition to land the hit on hella fast opponents and keeping up with Gated Gai (8) with parallels of them in multiple fast istances (9)(10), LoL. Not to mention that even Sasuke could dodge and hit him, with less physical abilities and no trickery, so Kakashi definitely kills V1 Ei with ease, be with Raikiri, Raiden or Kamui.

If Ei goes to V2, we know that War Arc Kakashi has reactions at the very least on Minato's level (11). I'd say even better when Minato couldn't mentally react to Juudara's speed to use Hiraishin, when an exausted Kakashi could perceive his attack from behind and react to it, not physically, but mentally. Hence not "!" in Minato's case (12) and the "!" in Kakashi's case (13). If Minato could react with absolute ease to V2 Ei, even giving his back to him once he witnessed his speed (14), Kakashi is doing the same with at least the same ease, if not more (not to mention that Kakashi outperformed Obito's reflexes, that are more than enough to follow and react to V2 Ei with ease). And if Kakashi with long range Kamui could warp head sized objects in the same window of time of Obito's intangibility and of a movement of 5 cm from KCM Naruto (15)(16), or before being hit by something kicked at surprise and point blank by SM Juubi jinchuriki Madara while being already touched by it (17)(18), human sized masses so fast that people with full knowledge and top notch reflexes boosted by Mangekyo Sharingan and Rinnegan vision couldn't perceive the warping happening in front of their eyes (namely Obito ofc) and that before a Kamui shooted stake that was hitting BM Naruto could move for more than a couple of cm (19)(20)(21), giant sized masses in the same time of the instant summon of the Summoning Jutsu, with KCM Minato not being able to tell what happened (22), two Susanoo arrows in a row, the nail that Pain shot with Shinra Tensei and so on... he is definitely warping Ei.

MS Kakashi (especially War Arc version) is portrayed to be the better ninja by far, and by feats he wins mid diff at worst against the Raikage. A better match up would be Sharinganless Hokage Kakashi, where Kakashi wouldn't have to rely on Kamui hax or Sharingan help but only on his tactical skills and versatilty. I would say that Kakashi would be intended to be stronger by portrayal and hype anyway, because of the Hokage thing and also because in the Naruto movie is said that "_The man who used to be renowned as "Kakashi of the Sharingan". He may have lost this great power now, but he was trusted to protect and lead the village anyway._". So he is still hella strong without Sharingan, yeah.


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## Icegaze (Nov 10, 2014)

kamui and ama same speed
the only difference is kamui kills the target quicker 
Ei goes full blitz and kakashi dies horrendously


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## DaVizWiz (Nov 10, 2014)

ARGUS said:


> kamui is not working when kakashi cant even track his target
> the jutsu is still based on kakashis LoS and seeing how he cant even locate Ay, means that he gets his head chopped before he even knows what has happened


Obito tracked Ei at the summit, Kakashi was shown to be equal to Obito several times in the war-arc.

Kakashi tracked V2 Sharingan Edo Jinchuriki that were pressuring KCM Naruto while they were in base. 

Kakashi warped KCM Naruto with Kamui, and reacted to truth seekers aside weakened Juubi Jin Rinnegan Obito with it. 

He has the feats to compete with V2 Ei, not that it would matter considering Ei has no knowledge of Kamui and therefore would start in V1, then get warped two seconds into the bout.


> kamui and ama same speed
> the only difference is kamui kills the target quicker


Absolutely nothing in the manga supports this, in fact the manga denies this logic as Kamui appears on the location of the target- while Amaterasu has been shown to travel in a stream toward the opponent as several ninja have reacted to it by either blocking it (V2 Bee), putting up a barrier in front of themselves (Jubito), or outright dodging it (Ei, CS2 Sasuke).

You can't block or put a barrier in front of Kamui after it's activated, it appears on location, it does not travel at the opponent.


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## Gibbs (Nov 10, 2014)

They are all In character here, so Kakashi logically starts off with a raiton (or shadow clone) while he observes from afar. He can Kamui snipe from afar as well.


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## JuicyG (Nov 10, 2014)

*WE NEED INTEL CLARIFICATION PLEASE *


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## Kai (Nov 10, 2014)

DaVizWiz said:


> Obito tracked Ei at the summit, Kakashi was shown to be equal to Obito several times in the war-arc.


The only time Kakashi was shown to be Obito's equal/level was rectified when Obito said he let that event happen. Kakashi needed teamwork every other step of the way in this war.



			
				DaVizWiz said:
			
		

> Kakashi tracked V2 Sharingan Edo Jinchuriki that were pressuring KCM Naruto while they were in base.


A can handle that same task with ease, and he is a much harder task to face than that.



			
				DaVizWiz said:
			
		

> Kakashi warped KCM Naruto with Kamui, and reacted to truth seekers aside weakened Juubi Jin Rinnegan Obito with it.


A has even greater reflexes than Minato and is faster than Gudodama at his max speed.



			
				DaVizWiz said:
			
		

> He has the feats to compete with V2 Ei, not that it would matter considering Ei has no knowledge of Kamui and therefore would start in V1, then get warped two seconds into the bout.


A would lose as far as manga knowledge (or less) is concerned. However, IC Kakashi isn't warping him two seconds in either.

Give A full knowledge of Kamui and Kakashi won't be able to see him.


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## DaVizWiz (Nov 10, 2014)

> The only time Kakashi was shown to be Obito's equal/level was rectified when Obito said he let that event happen. Kakashi needed teamwork every other step of the way in this war.


No, he reacted to truth seekers alongside Obito at the same pace (he actually had to turn his head- meaning it was more impressive), he also shunshin'd at KCM Minato's pace toward Black Zetsu. Aside from that, he put his Raikri through Rinnegan Obito's vital, while Obito put his weapon through Kakashi lower left abdomen, and no, he did not say he was fucking around then. 



> A has even greater reflexes than Minato and is faster than Gudodama at his max speed.


Woah, no he is not. Truth Seekers moved faster than 8th Gated Gai and were chosen by Judara as an effective way to counter Obito's Kamui, which is the technique Obito casually countered V2 Ei with. 



> A would lose as far as manga knowledge (or less) is concerned. However, IC Kakashi isn't warping him two seconds in either.


Of course he is, he's not going to fuck around with a Kage. 



> Give A full knowledge of Kamui and Kakashi won't be able to see him.


Except he doesn't have it, and Kakashi already perceived KCM Naruto and Rinnegan Obito with _ease_ on several occasions. 

I'm trying to understand how a man that perceived KCM Naruto, V2 Sharingan Jins, and Truth Seekers is not capable of perceiving V2 Ei.

Edo Madara casually guarded against V2 Ei with a lava blast distracting him. There's no level of logic that would warrant Edo Madara > A man that reacted to Truth Seekers.


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## Santoryu (Nov 10, 2014)

I've been saying Kakashi wins this ever since the battle against the version 2 Jinjuriki. Since that time, this version of Kakashi has just gotten better and better. If at any point Kakashi cannot physically evade Ei's attack he'll use Kamui as a defensive measure and the fight will most likely end there. Ei has to get up close, Kakashi doesn't. Also let's not play down the intelligence gap between these two. 

This has now become a very one sided fight. None of the 4th Shinobi 5 Kage can beat Kakashi. This was made painfully clear.


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## Rocky (Nov 10, 2014)

DaVizWiz said:


> I'm trying to understand how a man that perceived KCM Naruto, V2 Sharingan Jins, and Truth Seekers is not capable of perceiving V2 Ei.



KCM Naruto not using his flicker is not faster than v2 A using his flicker. KCM Naruto is _barley_ faster even when using it. Kakashi has never visually traced KCM Naruto's Shunshin to my knowledge, and no, that clone was not using Shunshin as it would be exponentially dumb to move to ridiculous speeds when he _wants_ to get warped.

The v2 Jinchuriki are not faster than A either. Their individual speed feats are trash, and I don't see why random people like Fu and Roshi would be faster than A when they both have v2 cloaks yet A's focuses on enhancing speed & reflexes. Outside of Yugito, who couldn't even catch up to Base B carrying Naruto, their base speed feats & hype are nonexistent. 

Lastly, the Truth Seekers being faster than A is suspect, because when Madara launched them point blank at Gai, Rock Lee was able to get a Kunai in front of them, which allowed Minato to then warp in, take them, and warp away.

Meanwhile, Minato could barley get off one warp in response to A.


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## Kai (Nov 10, 2014)

DaVizWiz said:


> No, he reacted to truth seekers alongside Obito at the same pace (he actually had to turn his head- meaning it was more impressive), he also shunshin'd at KCM Minato's pace toward Black Zetsu. *Aside from that, he put his Raikri through Rinnegan Obito's vital, while Obito put his weapon through Kakashi lower left abdomen, and no, he did not say he was fucking around then*.




Obito planned that to happen. Obito wanted that to happen.



			
				DaVizWiz said:
			
		

> Woah, no he is not. Truth Seekers moved faster than 8th Gated Gai and were chosen by Judara as an effective way to counter Obito's Kamui, which is the technique Obito casually countered V2 Ei with.


Sorry, they're not faster than an 8th Gated Gai if they were intercepted by a 5th Gated Lee. The Gudodama were faster than Obito's self-warping into Kamui; they weren't faster than Obito's right eye phasing power, the same power that casually countered A.



			
				DaVizWiz said:
			
		

> Of course he is, he's not going to fuck around with a Kage.


And by no means does that mean he'll Kamui two seconds into the fight.



			
				DaVizWiz said:
			
		

> Except he doesn't have it, and Kakashi already perceived KCM Naruto and Rinnegan Obito with _ease_ on several occasions.


When Naruto used his flash Shunshin, what did Kakashi perceive? 



			
				DaVizWiz said:
			
		

> I'm trying to understand how a man that perceived KCM Naruto, V2 Sharingan Jins, and Truth Seekers is not capable of perceiving V2 Ei.


None of the jinchuuriki are faster than A's max Shunshin.
Gudodama are not faster than A's max Shunshin in pure movement speed.
Kakashi couldn't perceive Naruto when he used  Shunshin.

A will be warped due to lack of knowledge, but with appropriate knowledge given Kakashi isn't warping a man whose reflexes exceeds Minato's.


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## DaVizWiz (Nov 10, 2014)

> KCM Naruto not using his flicker is not faster than v2 A using his flicker. KCM Naruto is _barley_ faster even when using it. Kakashi has never visually traced KCM Naruto's Shunshin to my knowledge, and no, that clone was not using Shunshin as it would be exponentially dumb to move to ridiculous speeds when he _wants_ to get warped.


The same thing can be applied to Kakashi. The dude rarely uses his flicker, and when he does, he cuts through Obito's shuriken attack before BM Naruto's clone could do anything. 

The most important part being KCM Naruto _failed to shunshin_ when Obito attacked him several times with taijutsu, his reaction speed was too poor. Gai and Kakashi both had to save his ass. That means Obito > KCM Naruto, and KCM Naruto was reacting to Ei with relative ease throughout their bout. 

Kakashi beat Obito and warped KCM Naruto. 
Kakashi > Obito > KCM Naruto in SEVERAL exchanges on panel, I fucking read it with my own eyes. 



> The v2 Jinchuriki are not faster than A either. Their individual speed feats are trash, and I don't see why random people like Fu and Roshi would be faster than A when they both have v2 cloaks yet A's focuses on enhancing speed & reflexes. Outside of Yugito, who couldn't even catch up to Base B carrying Naruto, their base speed feats & hype are nonexistent.


Excuse me? They were casually feinting KCM Naruto with danger sense while in base, without Killer Bee they would have literally killed him in 5 seconds.  



> Lastly, the Truth Seekers being faster than A is suspect, because when Madara launched them point blank at Gai, Rock Lee was able to get a Kunai in front of them, which allowed Minato to then warp in, take them, and warp away.


There is nothing suspect about it, Ei's greatest feat is dodging Amaterasu by less than a meter. Truth Seekers are considerably faster than Amaterasu by feats, it required two Kamui uses for Obito to barely avoid it, do you understand how fast that is? 

His blindside flicker (vision obscured by Lava and Raikage attacked him from his left side) was casually reacted to by Edo Madara, a ninja that failed to react to Afternoon Tiger from a displaced distance. 

Amaterasu > Afternoon Tiger > Truth Seekers? 

Please. 

More like

Truth Seekers (required 2 Kamuis to avoid from 30m+) > Afternoon Tiger > Amaterasu

Kakashi reacted to Truth Seekers with Kamui, somehow he is not able to react to V2 Ei with Kamui? Not even negotiable. 



> Meanwhile, Minato could barley get off one warp in response to A.


Minato warped, that's all there is to that. 

Nobody questions KCM Naruto's feat, which is exactly the same as Minato's in that the Raikage's palm was virtually touching both of their noses before they acted. We all consider it KCM Naruto > Raikage in speed

The Truth Seekers nearly hit Obito warped by 2 Kamuis from over 30m+ displacement. Truth be told, that looks like it's over 100m with the naked eye. I would love to see the Raikage replicate that feat with a shunshin that KCM Naruto avoided (yeah the guy that was literally wrapped by Obito's Gunbai [1], [Reaction failure with a Bunshin as aid], ), and Edo Madara blocked from a sneaky ass blindside angle knowledgeless. He would literally leap an entire tier in that immediate panel.


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 10, 2014)

I haven't  seen anyone provide a legitmate reason as to why kakashi can track e when ms sasuke couldn't  with 2 sharingons


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## Rocky (Nov 10, 2014)

DaVizWiz said:


> The same thing can be applied to Kakashi. The dude rarely uses his flicker, and when he does, he cuts through Obito's shuriken attack before BM Naruto's clone could do anything.



All I remember on how BM Naruto compares to Kakashi is the Copy Ninja nearly getting vaporized when Gai told him it was dumb to attempt Kamui on six Bijudama, and Naruto ran across the battlefield and swatted all five away before Kakashi could say "Sensei."



> Kakashi beat Obito and warped KCM Naruto.
> Kakashi > Obito > KCM Naruto in SEVERAL exchanges on panel, I fucking read it with my own eyes.



Then maybe you can't read, because Obito couldn't do anything to Naruto without intangibility (which he didn't use against Kakashi), and Obito _let Kakashi win:_





> Excuse me? They were casually feinting KCM Naruto with danger sense while in base, without Killer Bee they would have literally killed him in 5 seconds.



Maybe you missed the word "individual." Of course they can land hits when they fucking gangbang him, but individually they couldn't do shit.

By the way, they weren't using purse speed, they were using unique abilities like lava and nuclear hairballs.  



> There is nothing suspect about it, Ei's greatest feat is dodging Amaterasu by less than a meter. Truth Seekers are considerably faster than Amaterasu by feats, it required two Kamui uses for Obito to barely avoid it, do you understand how fast that is?





It required two Kamui for Obito _to suck himself into his dimension._ That isn't very fast. Obito couldn't even absorb himself in response to Konan's fucking paper tags.

Obito could obviously use intangibility in response if he wanted to. He physically reacted to that shit by twirling his staff. 



> His blindside flicker (vision obscured by Lava and Raikage attacked him from his left side) was casually reacted to by Edo Madara, a ninja that failed to react to Afternoon Tiger from a displaced distance.



How did Madara fail to react to Afternoon Tiger? What was he supposed to do to it? Punch it? He couldn't do anything about AT regardless of whether or not he could react.



> Minato warped, that's all there is to that.
> 
> Nobody questions KCM Naruto's feat, which is exactly the same as Minato's in that the Raikage's palm was virtually touching both of their noses before they acted. We all consider it KCM Naruto > Raikage in speed



So?

This is true, and because of that we know that Naruto nor Minato wouldn't be dodging A if they had to wait for Lee to throw a Kunai in front of him first.


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## DaVizWiz (Nov 10, 2014)

> All I remember on how BM Naruto compares to Kakashi is the Copy Ninja nearly getting vaporized when Gai told him it was dumb to attempt Kamui on six Bijudama, and Naruto ran across the battlefield and swatted all five away before Kakashi could say "Sensei."


BM Naruto > KCM Naruto by a significant margin.



> Then maybe you can't read, because Obito couldn't do anything to Naruto without intangibility (which he didn't use against Kakashi), and Obito _let Kakashi win:_


What the fuck? Obito ran him down then wrapped him up without using Kamui several times (Gunbai + Mokuton), this includes BM Naruto in humanoid form. 

He was literally on his ass at all times. 



> By the way, they weren't using purse speed, they were using unique abilities like lava and nuclear hairballs.


No, Han kicked him in the fucking head when he had danger sense. Naruto literally gave up on attacking when he realized they had shared vision- that means he literally wasn't fast enough to blitz any of them. 

Most of them casually struck KCM Naruto in V2 without anything close to a reaction. If KCM Naruto > V2 Ei, what is there to debate about? Kakashi already showcased he was faster than then V2 Jins who showcased speed that KCM Naruto wasn't capable of reacting to with shunshin, the same reaction speed that was successful in avoiding Ei's greatest speed. 



> It required two Kamui for Obito _to suck himself into his dimension._ That isn't very fast. Obito couldn't even absorb himself in response to Konan's fucking paper tags.


Are you seriously doubting Kamui's speed?

Kakashi's Kamui sends you to the dimension regardless, Obito's transport speed is just as fast as Kakashi's ranged warp- his intangibility is what is faster. However, when you add both transport Kamuis, they are clearly faster as showcased against Kaguya's bone attacks. 



> Obito could obviously use intangibility in response if he wanted to. He physically reacted to that shit by twirling his staff.


Then that's an increased feature for Obito's reaction speed. I mean, this is the same guy that perceived Kaguya's warpholes and Kamui'd in response before they closed. 



> How did Madara fail to react to Afternoon Tiger? What was he supposed to do to it? Punch it? He couldn't do anything about AT regardless of whether or not he could react.


Move out of the fucking way? He was standing on the ground. 



> This is true, and because of that we know that Naruto nor Minato wouldn't be dodging A if they had to wait for Lee to throw a Kunai in front of him first.


 lol

The wank is phenomenal. 

Requiring Double Kamui to _nearly_ avoid Truth Seekers shot from over 30m+ (arguably 100m) makes those Truth Seekers > Ei's Shunshin, by a significant margin IMO. 

There is literally nothing you can say that will change my mind, or the manga's hype of the technique being leagues above anything Ei could ever hope to manifest. 

If Kakashi was capable of reacting to V2 Edo Sharingan Jins that blitzed KCM Naruto (a man who reacted and avoided V2 Ei), If Kakashi was capable of handling Rinnegan Obito in close quarters (a man that was manhandling KCM Naruto with taijutsu), and if he was able to perceive Truth Seekers and react with Kamui, then he is capable of perceiving V2 Ei at all times. You WILL acknowledge the speed of truth seekers, and you WILL acknowledge Kakashi's speed caliber.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Nov 10, 2014)

If A starts off with and keeps his bijuu chakra levels active while utilizing his shunshin's he would definitely overwhelm kakashi. Kakashi could full body warp to escape a death blow and set up a kamui snipe that might be giving him too much credit. A was able to put his fist all but on minato's nose in a flash and even with his reflexes only had a chance to think before his instantaneous warp happened. Kakashi's body warp is not instant and he can't run away fast enough meaning he likely gets his head caved in should A shunshin out his sight and close in from behind like he did sasuke. 

If kakashi had a larger distance he would take this through intelligence and space time hax but hey...


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## Rocky (Nov 10, 2014)

DaVizWiz said:


> BM Naruto > KCM Naruto by a significant margin.



You're the one who brought up BM Naruto.



> What the fuck? Obito ran him down then wrapped him up without using Kamui several times (Gunbai + Mokuton), this includes BM Naruto in humanoid form.
> 
> He was literally on his ass at all times.



Go ahead, give me scans.

I guarantee that Obito alone never got the best of KCM Naruto in an engagement without using Kamui at least once.



> No, Han kicked him in the fucking head when he had danger sense. Naruto literally gave up on attacking when he realized they had shared vision- that means he literally wasn't fast enough to blitz any of them. Most of them casually struck KCM Naruto in V2 without anything close to a reaction.



You mean Han kicked him in the head when he was preoccupied with attacking Roshi? 

Unless you can go ahead and bring me scans of Naruto getting physically bested by a *SINGLE * Jinchuriki, then I don't care about this point.



> Kakashi already showcased he was faster than then V2 Jins who showcased speed that KCM Naruto wasn't capable of reacting to with shunshin, the same reaction speed that was successful in avoiding Ei's greatest speed.



Except no Jinchuriki was able to straight up blitz Naruto with Shunshin by themselves. Just like A was unable to.

If Naruto was up against six fucking Raikages, he would get smacked around just as easily as he did against the Jins.



> Kakashi's Kamui sends you to the dimension regardless, Obito's transport speed is just as fast as Kakashi's ranged warp- his intangibility is what is faster.



Yeah, and Konan can react to _both_ with paper tags. 



> Move out of the fucking way? He was standing on the ground.



He was in Susano'o, which is big as shit, and in the process of stabbing B.



> Requiring Double Kamui to _nearly_ avoid Truth Seekers shot from over 30m+ (arguably 100m)



That is_ wrong._ They required double Kamui to warp away. Single Kamui's warping speed isn't that fast.

_Konan fucking says it in the manga._ She was shitting all over Obito with explosives by taking advantage of that very fact, and that's why he needed Izanagi and didn't just warp to the Kamui dimension to avoid Paper Ocean.


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## ATastyMuffin (Nov 11, 2014)

Rocky said:


> K KCM Naruto is _barley_ faster even when using it.



Just felt the need to correct this.

Nine-Tails Chakra Mode Naruto at his maximum speed isn't 'barely' faster, the moment Ay punched the wall a meter or two behind Naruto, the latter reappeared like freakin' 15-20 meters away. That isn't 'barely' faster, that's faster by like a factor of seven to ten.


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## Icegaze (Nov 11, 2014)

sorry how do you know naruto appeared 20 meters away?
KCM naruto isnt much faster than Ei in any way shape or form or he would have been running circles round obito which he didnt


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## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 11, 2014)

Truth seekers aren't faster than Amaterasu wtf am I reading


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## ARGUS (Nov 11, 2014)

DaVizWiz said:


> Obito tracked Ei at the summit, Kakashi was shown to be equal to Obito several times in the war-arc.


*Nope that was V1 Ay, notice the hair on the top right panel * so ur premise is debunked here 



> Kakashi tracked V2 Sharingan Edo Jinchuriki that were pressuring KCM Naruto while they were in base.


Their speed is nothng in front of KCM naruto or V2 Ay, 
pressuring naruto in strength doesnt mean that they are faster than Ay nor are they comparable to him in any way whatsoever, 



> Kakashi warped KCM Naruto with Kamui, and reacted to truth seekers aside weakened Juubi Jin Rinnegan Obito with it.


It was prepped, not to mention that KCM naruto wasnt  using his shunshin whilst kakashi warped him meaning he was no wheree near his full speed, 

and how exactly did he react to the TSB? 
Obito was reacting to them, 
kakashi only outmaneouvred them when he used the double kamui alongside obito, 



> He has the feats to compete with V2 Ei, not that it would matter considering Ei has no knowledge of Kamui and therefore would start in V1, then get warped two seconds into the bout.
> Absolutely nothing in the manga supports this, in fact the manga denies this logic as Kamui appears on the location of the target- while Amaterasu has been shown to travel in a stream toward the opponent as several ninja have reacted to it by either blocking it (V2 Bee), putting up a barrier in front of themselves (Jubito), or outright dodging it (Ei, CS2 Sasuke).


Kakashi wont just start off the fight with Kamui either, when its completely OOC for him 
Ay on the other hand approaches him in CQC and eradicates him with a liger bomb, its IC for him to do this 
once he goes V2, its GG, 

furthermore, after using MS, the strain of the eyes would drop kakaashis speed and reflexes, even more, so using kamui is still not doing shit, when as shown kakashi is not tracking V2 Ay, *whose speed also managed to bypass edo madaras precog, *
which is most likely superior to kakashis 

kakashis precog is also no different to any other MS user such as Sasuke or Itachi, and V2 Ay has shownn to blitz sasuke through his speed, 
i have no reason to believe that kakashis precog is special enough to track Ay, 
when the mere susanoo arrow was too fast for kakashi, 

Ay blitzes him and ragdolls him , kamui is not being landed



Grimmjowsensei said:


> Truth seekers aren't faster than Amaterasu wtf am I reading



*Truth Seekers from Juubi Jin Madara were stated to be faster than Obitos kamui, *
so yeah they are easily faster than Amaterasu


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## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 11, 2014)

ARGUS said:


> [
> *Truth Seekers from Juubi Jin Madara were stated to be faster than Obitos kamui, *
> so yeah they are easily faster than Amaterasu



Obito's warp is significantly slower than other applications of Kamui(phasing and ranged snipe), because fully warping a human sized target takes some time. Even Konan was able to exploit the delay with her paper bombs.

Considering the fact that Amaterasu flames appear on the target, and the orbs need to travel the distance, there is no way they can mechanically be faster than Amaterasu. They can probably travel the distance before Amaterasu can fully engulf and burn down a target, which is another matter in its entirety.


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## Icegaze (Nov 11, 2014)

agree with grimmjow on this one


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## Ryuzaki (Nov 11, 2014)

Against, A, the sharingan is the only difference maker.


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## MYJC (Nov 11, 2014)

Raikage wins with no more than mid-diff. 

This is a bad matchup for Kakashi. There's just no way he's landing Kamui on someone as fast as Raikage. It's just not happening. I mean the guy was able to dodge Amaterasu point black and people think Kakashi's shitty Kamui (without Kurama amping him) has a chance of landing? No. 

And I don't think Kakashi has anything else that would hurt Raikage very much. 

Kakashi gets Liger Bombed.


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## Kishido (Nov 11, 2014)

Chidori nearly pierced through the armor

*whose speed also managed to bypass edo madaras precog, *

Raikiri would break dat Jutsu


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## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 11, 2014)

Kishido said:


> Chidori nearly pierced through the armor
> 
> *whose speed also managed to bypass edo madaras precog, *
> 
> Raikiri would break dat Jutsu



Thats debatable.

Whats not debatable is that, the liqufication Kakashi will go through the instant A gets his hands on him.


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## Skilatry (Nov 11, 2014)

This happens:


*Spoiler*: __ 





The only difference is Kakashi doesn't Hirashin out the way.


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## Ryuzaki (Nov 11, 2014)

But he has the sharingan, he could see that coming anyway, now if this Kakashi without the sharingan, then yeah, I can see him getting creamed.


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## Gibbs (Nov 11, 2014)

The Phoenix King said:


> They are all In character here, so Kakashi logically starts off with a raiton (or shadow clone) while he observes from afar. He can Kamui snipe from afar as well.



No one has countered this yet.


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## Hachibi (Nov 11, 2014)

He would get blitzed before he could do that shit anyways.

If Minato barely dodged Ei, Kakashi won't.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 11, 2014)

Ryuzaki said:


> But he has the sharingan, he could see that coming anyway, now if this Kakashi without the sharingan, then yeah, I can see him getting creamed.



actually


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## Skilatry (Nov 11, 2014)

The Phoenix King said:


> No one has countered this yet.



Kakashi would have to make a raiton clone first, which he can't do before getting pulverized by A's head-sized fist.


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## Santoryu (Nov 12, 2014)

Anyone who thinks Kakashi's version of Kamui is "shitty" should obviously not be taken seriously. This is the same technique/eye that was praised by Sage-Madara; the latter could not prevent part of GM being warped *mid-summon*. Rinnegan Obito *could not comprehend* Naruto being warped into another dimension until it was too late. Kakashi has fought against and alongside faster opponents than Ei in this war-the experience alone will prepare him better for this fight, especially if we take the Sharingan's abilities into account. I'd like someone to tell me how Ei evades Kakashi's fastest version of Kamui? Dodging an amataresu from a Kage-summit arc Sasuke doesn't quite cut it. 

A bloodlusted Ei didn't utilize his maximum speed against Sasuke from the get go; Kage-summit arc Sasuke and  Kakashi are two very different fighters. Kakashi's more proficient in CQC. He's far more intelligent and will consequently approach this fight in a different manner.If the war is anything to go by, Kakashi using Kamui before his opponent utilizes his maximum speed is more likely to happen, but I digress.

We know what happens when Kakashi can't physically evade an attack.  He uses Kamui. And since Ei's only means of hurting Kakashi is getting into close quarters combat, this makes things a lot easier for Kakashi. People say Ei is a bad matchup for Kakashi. The same can be said in reverse. Ei is a hot-headed fighter that happens to be very one dimensional; conversely, Kakashi is the king of versatility and can manipulate space and time.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 12, 2014)

A is a bad match up for Kakashi because A with his max speed negates any attempt at Kamui. Kakashi can't even see him, let alone target him.


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