# minato vs itach and sasuke



## orthoanduro (Sep 9, 2013)

place :  madara vs hashi 

restrictions : non


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## Trojan (Sep 9, 2013)

Minato annihilate them.


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## Sadgoob (Sep 9, 2013)

Elia said:


> Minato annihilate them.



This isn't Edo Minato.


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## Trojan (Sep 9, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> This isn't Edo Minato.



then perhaps it's Minato after sealing Kurama's half into himself. 

Well, if it's with Kurama's chakra they don't stand any chance, and if not they
will win.


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## trance (Sep 9, 2013)

If Edo Minato, he stomps. If not, he loses.


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## Chad (Sep 10, 2013)

Edo Minato wins easily.

But Alive Minato gets defeated by Itachi, extreme difficulty.


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## Trojan (Sep 10, 2013)

Elia said:


> Well, if it's with Kurama's chakra they don't stand any chance, *and if not they
> will win*.



changed my mind. 
even without Kurama's chakra, it will be at least a tie because of the SF.


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## Garcher (Sep 10, 2013)

Itachi solos this lol


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## Ƶero (Sep 10, 2013)

Edo Minato solos low diff.
Alive Minato solos high diff.


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## DaVizWiz (Sep 10, 2013)

They don't really stand a chance against him since he's shown the capacity to warp clones through FTG and a giant fucking Juubi TBB.

Also, there's no restrictions. He doesn't have to be Edo to utilize the chakras within him, which he had when he was alive.

At this point those who suggest alive Minato not having the features shown as an Edo, that is, KCM, BM, and Kurama's chakra pool- are simply trying to avoid the fact that Minato has scaled himself into the top 5 rather casually. 

These two are far beneath his powerscale.


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 10, 2013)

Minato should be able to easily do what he did as an Edo because of Kurama's high chakra and that's evidenced by Naruto being able to give Kyuubi chakra to everyone and even maintain it while fighting for the Alliance for a good chunk of time.

 BM Minato takes this though Sasuke and Itachi's reactions are high, it's not enough. Itachi though, can navigate through blind spots as shown when he Kunai'd the Gedo Mazo, but that may still not be enough to counter FTG.


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## Krippy (Sep 10, 2013)

Gonna go ahead and assume feat scaling isn't allowed (as it shouldn't be)

If Minato's alive then Itachi soloes with high diff.

Uchiha Bros. beat Edo Minato with high diff.


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## ? (Sep 10, 2013)

If were talking about the characters at their strongest, Minato wins mid-high difficulty. As a Jinchuuriki he is on another tier compared to the brothers. If this is base Minato, he loses. Itachi could possibly solo.


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## Rocky (Sep 11, 2013)

Krippy said:


> Gonna go ahead and assume feat scaling isn't allowed (as it shouldn't be)
> 
> If Minato's alive then Itachi soloes with high diff.
> 
> Uchiha Bros. beat Edo Minato with high diff.



Nine-Tailed cloaks tank Lazer Beams from the Juubi without taking major damage. Compared to the Ten-Tails, Sasuke & Itachi have about the collective firepower of a butterfly. By _feats_, their attacks literally cannot damage his cloak.

Then there's the fact that Sasuke was literally in awe of Bijuu Mode Naruto before he even did anything, from Chakra output alone. Minato is Bijuu Mode Naruto with the ability to teleport.

They can't hit him or hurt him (fastest guy on the planet couldn't hit Base Minato), and he can hit them with Bijuudama.


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## Bonly (Sep 11, 2013)

IMO Minato vs either Itachi or Sasuke was always a close match but  adding both Uchiha on the same team tips the scales in their favor for me.


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## Kamikorosu (Sep 11, 2013)

Like you can see in the actual scans minato is weak and have less reflexes than his son.

even sasuke could probably solo this...

Itachi solos no diff


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## crisler (Sep 11, 2013)

Edo Minato wins pretty easily

Alive Minato loses to any one of them.

Alive with kyuubi chakra minato...dies a few seconds later due to SF...


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## Ghost (Sep 11, 2013)

Minato dies horribly.


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## Trojan (Sep 11, 2013)

crisler said:


> *
> Alive Minato loses to any one of them.*



lol that's bullshit. 

even alive Minato can probably solo both of them at the same time!

the strongest thing they have is their Susanoo, and Minato can teleport it away
or teleport them out of it
4
4

the second strongest thing they have is the Enton and Amaterasu
Minato can easily dodge that, and even IF it hits him, he always can teleport
out of it without any damage

4
4

and then
4

and IF sasuke was able to use his Kirin, Minato can redirect it with his S/T barrier


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## Turrin (Sep 11, 2013)

Edo Minato would beat them both, no problems. 

If this is living Minato, I'd generally consider Itachi & Sasuke stronger than him as a collective unit , but I don't know how Uchiha bros could counter Shiki Fuujin, and this is really the perfect losing situation where I see Minato quickly resorting to that desperation move. So I'll say ether Uchiha Bros win with high difficult or everyone ends up in the Death God's stomach.


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## Krippy (Sep 12, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Nine-Tailed cloaks tank Lazer Beams from the Juubi without taking major damage.



Losing the majority of your tails in the process is major damage.

And the Juubi tanks it's own BB's with ease while having to rid itself of Amaterasu. 



> Compared to the Ten-Tails, Sasuke & Itachi have about the collective firepower of a butterfly.



DC doesn't matter much when you have haxx that can't be tanked outright.



> By _feats_, their attacks literally cannot damage his cloak.



By feats Amaterasu will force him to drop his Bijuu form leaving him vulnerable.



> Then there's the fact that Sasuke was literally in awe of Bijuu Mode Naruto before he even did anything, from Chakra output alone. Minato is Bijuu Mode Naruto with the ability to teleport.



Just because he's surprised at how strong Naruto's become doesn't mean he can't compete.



> They can't hit him or hurt him (fastest guy on the planet couldn't hit Base Minato), and he can hit them with Bijuudama.



They can hit him with any of the Big 3 MS techs while he distracted and that's the end of him. 

Itachi puts him in Genjutsu, Kurama breaks him out, he goes BM and gets blasted with Amaterasu, he Hiraishins out of the Kurama avatar and gets sealed by Totsuka or incinerated by Enton blade. 

Sasuke know more about Minato than vice versa, the OP didn't specify but assumed this is manga knowledge.


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## Trojan (Sep 12, 2013)

> Itachi puts him in Genjutsu, Kurama breaks him out, he goes BM and gets blasted with Amaterasu, he Hiraishins out of the Kurama avatar and gets sealed by Totsuka or incinerated by Enton blade.



LOOOOOOOOOOOL
1- Minato even if he was hit by Amaterasu, his FTG can teleport him out if that like in canon
Kurama's avatar is not necceray.  

2- I like  and how you make it like if they can attack him every time as they please with absolutely no difficult


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## richard lewis (Sep 12, 2013)

Krippy said:


> Losing the majority of your tails in the process is major damage.
> 
> And the Juubi tanks it's own BB's with ease while having to rid itself of Amaterasu.



I dont recall the juubi having any of it's attacks redirected at itself..... please post a scan of when the juubi got hit with it's own BB.

If your referring to obito tanking the 4 BB's as the juubi's jin then that's a different story. obito has far greater control over it's chakra and he can fuse multiple elements together creating a kekai genkai even greater than jinton for a defense which the juubi on it's own cannot do. Not to mention that obito blocked amaterasu as well.

And since naruto himself was unaffected by the blast only the kurama avatar was harmed "which can regenerate anyway" I think that counts as tanking.



Krippy said:


> DC doesn't matter much when you have haxx that can't be tanked outright.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Minato in RM should have a shushin even greater than that of naruto or V2 Ei for that matter so he may very well be able to dodge amaterasu with pure foot speed/shushin he may not even need FTG. Also it should be noted that even in BM he can still use FTG so there's no reason for why he couldn't teleport away from amaterasu even in BM.



Krippy said:


> They can hit him with any of the Big 3 MS techs while he distracted and that's the end of him.
> 
> Itachi puts him in Genjutsu, Kurama breaks him out, he goes BM and gets blasted with Amaterasu, he Hiraishins out of the Kurama avatar and gets sealed by Totsuka or incinerated by Enton blade.
> 
> Sasuke know more about Minato than vice versa, the OP didn't specify but assumed this is manga knowledge.



IDK why or how minato would just randomly get distracted in the middle of a fight lol..... but like I said he could arguably shushin away from amaterasu, and even if he cant he dodges with FTG regardless of whether he's in BM or not since he can telepoet the entire kurama avatar. 

How would either of them tag minato with totsuka or enton when he can teleport or even shushin away? Minato could probably just outlast them, with the 9 tails chakra he could keep fighting for far longer than either itachi or sasuke could. Neither of them have an effective way of landing a blow on him and as a perfect jin he can break their genjutsu. I just don't see anyway the uchiha bro's could possibly win.


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## Rocky (Sep 12, 2013)

Krippy said:


> Losing the majority of your tails in the process is major damage.



Considering they're Chakra and grow back, I fail to see how.



> And the Juubi tanks it's own BB's with ease while having to rid itself of Amaterasu.



*powered by Rasenshuriken





> DC doesn't matter much when you have haxx that can't be tanked outright.



Strong enough Chakra Cloaks can tank Amaterasu, like Susano'o, for example.



> By feats Amaterasu will force him to drop his Bijuu form leaving him vulnerable.



Amaterasu can't even damage Susano'o, let alone the Nine-Tails avatar. 




> Just because he's surprised at how strong Naruto's become doesn't mean he can't compete.



Yeah i think it does. You'd have to blind to not see that Sasuke realizes he's inferior. 



> They can hit him with any of the Big 3 MS techs while he distracted and that's the end of him.



Yes, they'll hit him with Susano'o. 

If you mean Amaterasu, that won't do anything to a Chakra cloak. Fire has kind of failed against Chakra cloaks, every time. Besides, he can just warp the entire Kurama avatar out of it. It isn't like his reflexes slow down, and even the Raikage could avoid the manifestation of Amaterasu with a technique slower than Hiraishin.



> Itachi puts him in Genjutsu, Kurama breaks him out, he goes BM and gets blasted with Amaterasu, he Hiraishins out of the Kurama avatar and gets sealed by Totsuka or incinerated by Enton blade.



Severe overestimation of the Uchiha. 

I can play too. Minato runs circles around them with Kurama's Chakra powering his Shunshin and blows them up with Bijuudama whenever he feels like it.


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## Krippy (Sep 13, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Considering they're Chakra and grow back, I fail to see how.



The fact that they didn't grow back immediately, and he uses them for defense.



> *powered by Rasenshuriken



Which made it a bigger Amaterasu.



> Strong enough Chakra Cloaks can tank Amaterasu, like Susano'o, for example.



Gyuki was incapacitated by it, the same will happen to Minato if he doesn't drop his Kurama avatar.



> Amaterasu can't even damage Susano'o, let alone the Nine-Tails avatar.



It's damaged Bijuu in the past, it can do it again.



> Yeah i think it does. You'd have to blind to not see that Sasuke realizes he's inferior.



Nah he was surprised about how much chakra Naruto can control at once, which is irrelevant to how their respective powers match up and irrelevant in this case because Minato =/= Naruto, and Sasuke =/= Sasuke and Itachi.



> Yes, they'll hit him with Susano'o.



Yup, because he can keep track of Sasuke, Itachi, his clones, summons, and Amaterasu all at the same time. 



> If you mean Amaterasu, that won't do anything to a Chakra cloak. Fire has kind of failed against Chakra cloaks, every time. Besides, he can just warp the entire Kurama avatar out of it. It isn't like his reflexes slow down, and even the Raikage could avoid the manifestation of Amaterasu with a technique slower than Hiraishin.



Gyuki says hi. MS has always been a counter to Bijuu powers, Two MS users fighting one jinchuriki won't end well, especially two who actually have experience hunting Bijuu. He's not Hiraishin'ing the Kurama avatar out of the flames and just leaving them behind. 



> Severe overestimation of the Uchiha.


>Implying they can't pull off that scenario

Right back at you.

I can play too. Minato runs circles around them with Kurama's Chakra powering his Shunshin and blows them up with Bijuudama whenever he feels like it.[/QUOTE]

My scenario seems more likely I'm afraid


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## Rocky (Sep 13, 2013)

Krippy said:


> The fact that they didn't grow back immediately, and he uses them for defense.



They grew back pretty much right away. It's not like loosing them made his position worse in that battle.





> Which made it a bigger Amaterasu.



And stronger*



> Gyuki was incapacitated by it, the same will happen to Minato if he doesn't drop his Kurama avatar.



Gyuuki =/= Kurama

Gyuuki's flesh =/= Nine-Tailed Chakra avatar.




> It's damaged Bijuu in the past, it can do it again.



Minato doesn't turn into Kurama. He crafts a gain avatar made of Chakra around him, while he sits in the head. It's very similar to Perfect Susano'o & how Madara sits in its head.

Nine-Tailed Chakra cloaks are fire resistant, so....



> Nah he was surprised about how much chakra Naruto can control at once, which is irrelevant to how their respective powers match up and irrelevant in this case because Minato =/= Naruto, and Sasuke =/= Sasuke and Itachi.



"How has he come so far?"



> Yup, because he can keep track of Sasuke, Itachi, his clones, summons, and Amaterasu all at the same time.



You mean Sasuke & Itachi. Listing their movesets along with them is redundant. Sauce and Itachi have to keep track of Minato, Kurama, summons, clones, Hiraishin, etc etc. Redundant. 



> Gyuki says hi. MS has always been a counter to Bijuu powers









> Two MS users fighting one jinchuriki won't end well, especially two who actually have experience hunting Bijuu.



Except Minato was a legendary Kage that smashed a Mangekyou user before even receiving half of Kurama.



> He's not Hiraishin'ing the Kurama avatar out of the flames and just leaving them behind.



He just senses when it's coming and moves.  Like I said, the slower Raikage avoided Amaterasu with a slower technique. 

Oh, and Minato avoided the flames of Amaterasu _after contact_ before.



> >Implying they can't pull off that scenario



>Implying they can.


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## ueharakk (Sep 13, 2013)

Edo Minato fodder stomps the duo, as none of them have anything that can even harm him in his BM avatar, and none of them have anything that can withstand a super or even a rapidfire bijuudama.  amaterasu was stopped by a samurai's armor, it couldn't even burn through ribcage susanoo and Minato's avatar blocks the juubi's laserdama at the cost of only 6 tails.

Alive minato also has a decent chance of taking this as he can warp things as large as super juubidamas away.  that means bye bye susanoo if he manages to touch it which he probably does considering he dodges V2 Ei no problems.  The only thing that is tough for him would be if sauske sets his entire susanoo on fire via amaterasu and likes up and nukes the area with amaterasu, enton spam and kirin to destroy his kunais and tags.  Itachi is easily the weak link in this match and would serve as support in trying to bunshin feint minato or putting up a last second defense to save sasuke.


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## Elite Uchiha (Sep 13, 2013)

BM Minato takes this with very low difficulty.

Base Minato uses Frog Song + Hirashin + KB to beat the Uchiha bros with high difficulty.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Sep 13, 2013)

It's pretty clear minato take this he is on another level really.

BM minato bijjudamas, rules speed with shunshin, fodderize genjutsu(but he won't get caught anyway lol) due to kurama, and all ninjutsu from the bros will not phase he shroud in the least. I really fail to see what the bros can do to him.

Base minato is more debatable if they fight him at the same time. Kurama is still there for genjutsu i presume but will not really need it. Susanoo meets FTG, toads like ma and pa can hit the bros with sound genjutsu and sound ninjutsu which is a known weakness of uchiha's as well. From there minato can just land rasengans on them and win.

Itachi horrid stamina(in comparison to his opposition) makes a lasting battle impossible and sasuke alone cannot handle minato even on his best day.


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## SesshomaruX2 (Sep 13, 2013)

Minato is strong but not strong enough to take on both Uchiha's at once and win, he'll need to be an edo for that.


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 13, 2013)

Sasuke can react to moves that Minato can react to as well, so personally, I'm thinking this is actually a tougher battle.

It's a translation error

 Also, what's funny is that Juubtio actually does block an Amaterasu as well.

It's a translation error

 Here, Sasuke can actually match the output of Naruto's RasenShuriken with Amaterasu meaning Amaterasu is actually a huge threat.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 14, 2013)

Minato gets steamrolled. 
Even with KCM feats.



Turrin said:


> Edo Minato would beat them both, no problems.
> 
> If this is living Minato, I'd generally consider Itachi & Sasuke stronger than him as a collective unit , but I don't know how Uchiha bros could counter Shiki Fuujin, and this is really the perfect losing situation where I see Minato quickly resorting to that desperation move. So I'll say ether Uchiha Bros win with high difficult or everyone ends up in the Death God's stomach.



Yata and totsuka make Shiki fuuin a non factor in this match up.


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## richard lewis (Sep 14, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Minato gets steamrolled.
> Even with KCM feats.
> 
> 
> ...



How do Yata and totsuka make Shiki fuuin a non factor? You know once your caught in the seal you cant use jutsu anymore, so even if itachi could resist getting sealed instantly like Oro did he still wouldn't be able to use susanoo or any other dojutsu for that matter.


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## Laozy (Sep 14, 2013)

You can't use Shiki fujin when you're sealed inside of Itachis Totsuka..


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## Csdabest (Sep 14, 2013)

Minato has Zero genjutsu feats. Itachi points finger at Minato. Minato is caught with genjutsu. Breaks out of it quickly. But by the time. Sasuke would have already blasted him with amaterasu or lopped his head off with Shunshin + sword while Minato is distracted with breaking out of genjutsu.



richard lewis said:


> How do Yata and totsuka make Shiki fuuin a non factor? You know once your caught in the seal you cant use jutsu anymore, so even if itachi could resist getting sealed instantly like Oro did he still wouldn't be able to use susanoo or any other dojutsu for that matter.



Um Why cant Totsuka just seal The Death God. Its a spirit. And Totsuka is stated to being able to seal physical and spiritual entities.

Also since Minato has stepped on the seen with KCM he hasnt done much speed wise but praise Tobirama. Why people think minato should be faster is beyond me. Everyone isnt able to cope with Bijuu chakra and adapt to it and use it. When Minato first absorbed it he said the chakra felt extremely heavy.  Only reason Minato is able to stand and move is probably cuz he is an edo and is in KCM


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## Coppur (Sep 14, 2013)

If this is Edo Minato, he stomps, if not he loses, but he could probably take out one of them in the process.


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Sep 14, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Minato gets steamrolled.
> Even with KCM feats.
> 
> 
> ...



More like Sasuke and Itachi get steamrolled if it's Edo Minato. They have nothing against a guy who can use bijuudama, enormous rasengans, create a Kurama sized chakra cloak with enough physical strength to toss around bijuu, has kurama to break him out of genjutsu, and his FTG. Not to mention he can likely create a ton of shadow clones with the immense amount of chakra kurama has. 

Sasuke and Itachi literally have NOTHING on Edo Minato. 



Csdabest said:


> Minato has Zero genjutsu feats. Itachi points finger at Minato. Minato is caught with genjutsu. Breaks out of it quickly. But by the time. Sasuke would have already blasted him with amaterasu or lopped his head off with Shunshin + sword while Minato is distracted with breaking out of genjutsu.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The Reaper can only be seen by the one who casts the reaper death seal jutsu.


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## Master Sephiroth (Sep 14, 2013)

Orochimaru could still control Kusanagi when being attacked by Shiki Fujin. There's no reason Itachi or Sasuke couldn't just activate Susano'o or use any type of Sharingan Jutsu on Minato.


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 14, 2013)

If people are including Edo Minato, can't we just include Edo Itachi into this then?


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## bsteves33 (Sep 14, 2013)

Laozy said:


> You can't use Shiki fujin when you're sealed inside of Itachis Totsuka..


How exactly is itachi supposed to tag minato with totsuka when minato can teleport away b4 he gets the chance?



Csdabest said:


> Minato has Zero genjutsu feats. Itachi points finger at Minato. Minato is caught with genjutsu. Breaks out of it quickly. But by the time. Sasuke would have already blasted him with amaterasu or lopped his head off with Shunshin + sword while Minato is distracted with breaking out of genjutsu.



Even if the duo did manage to tag minato b4 he could break the genjutsu he can teleport away from Amaterasu.
here.
Here Amaterasu clearly made contact with him and yet he was still able to escape it.



Laozy said:


> Um Why cant Totsuka just seal The Death God. Its a spirit. And Totsuka is stated to being able to seal physical and spiritual entities.
> 
> Also since Minato has stepped on the seen with KCM he hasnt done much speed wise but praise Tobirama. Why people think minato should be faster is beyond me. Everyone isnt able to cope with Bijuu chakra and adapt to it and use it. When Minato first absorbed it he said the chakra felt extremely heavy.  Only reason Minato is able to stand and move is probably cuz he is an edo and is in KCM



You can't see the death god until after its already began sealing you, and at that point you can't use ninjutsu.

Even if KCM minato is the same speed as his base form "which is unlikely" he still has FTG and he now has emotion sensing to increase his reactions even further.


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## Csdabest (Sep 14, 2013)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> More like Sasuke and Itachi get steamrolled if it's Edo Minato. They have nothing against a guy who can use bijuudama, enormous rasengans, create a Kurama sized chakra cloak with enough physical strength to toss around bijuu, has kurama to break him out of genjutsu, and his FTG. Not to mention he can likely create a ton of shadow clones with the immense amount of chakra kurama has.
> 
> Sasuke and Itachi literally have NOTHING on Edo Minato.
> 
> ...



All the members of Taka were capable of seeing the Death God Just fine when orochimaru used the mask to summon it.  So weather it was a recon or not is the issue. Because remember. When Minato performed it on Kyuubi Hiruzen was capable of even seeing it taking note that Minato was using the seal.

Bijuu dama<Susano-o tanks.
Giant Rasengan<Susano-o Tanks

If Minato tried to toss a susano-o he is either going to get ran through by an enton blade or totsuka.

Naruto despite knowing the benefits of having a bijuu to break you out of genjutsu and knowing Hachibi and Bee are partners. Naruto still felt the need to warn bee about Tsukiyomi ending it in an instant. Because bee the shinobi who has used the break out method with his bijuu was still placed under genjutsu by both Itachi and Sasuke which both genjutsu seem to have lasted for over a second which is long enough for Tsukiyomi to take effect.

Itachi is still capable of turteling the fight out with Sasuke and Just Casting Izanami from inside Susano-o to end the fight. The scenarior for Minato still exist. He has yet to demonstrate a technique that is capable of cracking Susano-o. His peak damage output via Bijuu Dama is mountain busting level. And Susano-o's have already shown to tank Mountain busting level techniques along with direct bijuu damas.


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## Elite Uchiha (Sep 14, 2013)

People are actually implying that Minato could get hit by Susanoo 

This is a dude who is the fastest ninja in the manga canon. Adding KCM or BM makes this the easiest victory. 

Frog Song + Hirashin + BM + Rasengan solos. Not to mention Susanoo is useless since Minato can teleport it.


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## Stermor (Sep 14, 2013)

? said:


> If were talking about the characters at their strongest, Minato wins mid-high difficulty. As a Jinchuuriki he is on another tier compared to the brothers. If this is base Minato, he loses. Itachi could possibly solo.



itachi could possible solo.. ... hell even sasuke could possible solo.. if they get a hit on him they will win.. 

the chance they get a hit on him just ridicously small..


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## Elite Uchiha (Sep 14, 2013)

Not to mention Frog Song > Tayuya's genjutsu. Therefore Uchiha bros are essentially fucked


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 14, 2013)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> More like Sasuke and Itachi get steamrolled if it's Edo Minato. They have nothing against a guy who can use bijuudama, enormous rasengans, create a Kurama sized chakra cloak with enough physical strength to toss around bijuu, has kurama to break him out of genjutsu, and his FTG. Not to mention he can likely create a ton of shadow clones with the immense amount of chakra kurama has.
> 
> Sasuke and Itachi literally have NOTHING on Edo Minato.



Aren't they KCM Naruto's feats ?



richard lewis said:


> How do Yata and totsuka make Shiki fuuin a non factor? You know once your caught in the seal you cant use jutsu anymore, so even if itachi could resist getting sealed instantly like Oro did he still wouldn't be able to use susanoo or any other dojutsu for that matter.



They are borh spiritual weapons. Yata is said to deflect spiritual attacks. So deathgods hand won't reach them in the first place.


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## Rocky (Sep 14, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Aren't they KCM Naruto's feats ?



Minato can craft the cloak, use giant Rasengan's, etc etc.

You don't believe he can?


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## bsteves33 (Sep 14, 2013)

Elite Uchiha said:


> Not to mention Frog Song > Tayuya's genjutsu. Therefore Uchiha bros are essentially fucked


Can minato summon ma and pa? If he can then he takes this for sure.


Grimmjowsensei said:


> Aren't they KCM Naruto's feats ?
> 
> 
> 
> They are borh spiritual weapons. Yata is said to deflect spiritual attacks. So deathgods hand won't reach them in the first place.



Do you mind posting a scan of where this was stated?


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 14, 2013)

Elite Uchiha said:


> People are actually implying that Minato could get hit by Susanoo
> 
> This is a dude who is the fastest ninja in the manga canon. Adding KCM or BM makes this the easiest victory.
> 
> Frog Song + Hirashin + BM + Rasengan solos. Not to mention Susanoo is useless since Minato can teleport it.



 Sasuke protected Minato with a Susanoo Arm from Juubito's surprise underground attack. It's not ridiculous to say Sasuke can hit Minato with Susanoo.

 Bro, do you even count?

 Also this. They used a Genjutsu to break through Tayuya's Genjutsu and then quickly caught Kabuto's jutsu with a Susanoo Arm. That's a fast feat. No one can deny that.


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## Ƶero (Sep 14, 2013)

NarutoX28 said:


> Sasuke protected Minato with a Susanoo Arm from Juubito's surprise underground attack. It's not ridiculous to say Sasuke can hit Minato with Susanoo.
> 
> Bro, do you even count?
> 
> Also this. They used a Genjutsu to break through Tayuya's Genjutsu and then quickly caught Kabuto's jutsu with a Susanoo Arm. That's a fast feat. No one can deny that.



Sasuke couldn't even keep up with Raikage while Minato moves so fast he makes Raikage look like he's standing still.


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 14, 2013)

^ EMS Sasuke has extra tricks.

 That's debuting Amaterasu sword skills, Amaterasu Orb usage, and an extended range of Raiton Sword. There's no reason not to believe his speed, reactions, and CQC have improved considering it did after he lost CS, but gained MS even if that's as ridiculous as it is to believe.

 Btw, Sasuke would've destroyed the Raikage had Gaara not step in.

 I personally don't think Base Minato moves that fast without Shunshin. Sasuke without Shunshin dodged V1 Raikage while intercepting him with a Chidori. That's very impressive.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 14, 2013)

bsteves33 said:


> Can minato summon ma and pa? If he can then he takes this for sure.
> 
> 
> Do you mind posting a scan of where this was stated?



quoting Databook entry of the weapons :



> The reason why Susano-o is boasted to be flawless in both offense and defence is due to the "spiritual equipments" held in both hands. The right hand wields the Totsukano Tsurugi sword that can bring down any enemies; the left hand holds the Yatano Kagami (Eight Span Mirror), which can repel all attacks. Be it physical or *spiritual,* ninjutsu or physical attacks, all these become futile in front of such godly effects.





Rocky said:


> Minato can craft the cloak, use giant Rasengan's, etc etc.
> 
> You don't believe he can?



Minato doesn't have any experience with the cloak it seems. He can't even use Chakra arms which are is the first thing you learn to do with the chakra cloak.

I don't think he can use Bijuudama or other goodies Naruto does with it.


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## ueharakk (Sep 14, 2013)

If we are taking databook statements to be absolute infallible facts, then raikiri cuts through anything, and since FRS > Raikiri, FRS and anything above it destroys yaata and susanoo.


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## Rocky (Sep 14, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Minato doesn't have any experience with the cloak it seems. He can't even use Chakra arms which are is the first thing you learn to do with the chakra cloak.



Naruto didn't have any experience with the cloak in it's debut, and yet he seemed perfectly comfortable. 

I would think that Minato could craft the arms of Kurama, considering he can manifest the head and full body.



> I don't think he can use Bijuudama or other goodies Naruto does with it.



Naruto asks Minato to help with the Sage Bijuudama, and Minato agrees. It would be really weird if Minato couldn't use it, wouldn't you agree?

Naruto pretty much gained all of his feats with the cloak as a result of Kurama's cooperation. I would think Minato, an incredibly bright guy, could manage the same with similar cooperation from the Kyuubi.

Other than that, what other goodies are there?


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 15, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Naruto didn't have any experience with the cloak in it's debut, and yet he seemed perfectly comfortable.
> 
> I would think that Minato could craft the arms of Kurama, considering he can manifest the head and full body.
> 
> ...



Well I'd rather go with what I've seen. So I don't think Minato can use a Bijuudama, chakra arms(or other manifestations), chakra cloak transfer, mini bijuu-dama and so on.


He can get the full transformation and huge rasengan, as he've shown to be able to do.



ueharakk said:


> If we are taking databook statements to be absolute infallible facts, then raikiri cuts through anything, and since FRS > Raikiri, FRS and anything above it destroys yaata and susanoo.



You can disregard the part where it says it blocks all attacks because it is too powerful and shit. Might say that it is a no-limits fallacy or a hyperbole.

You can't disregard the part where it describes* the kinds of attacks it can block.*

It says the shield grants defense against spiritual attacks as well as physical and elemental. It is not a hyperbole or a no-limits fallacy. It is a description.

Reading comprehension much ?


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## Rocky (Sep 15, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Well I'd rather go with what I've seen. So I don't think Minato can use a Bijuudama, chakra arms(or other manifestations), chakra cloak transfer, mini bijuu-dama and so on.



Why not go with what we're told and is obvious? Do you not believe Naruto & Minato when they pretty much confirm Minato can use Bijuudama?

I suppose you also don't believe Itachi or Tobi when the say Itachi threw his fight against Sasuke. I mean, Itachi lost right? It's what we saw.


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Sep 15, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Aren't they KCM Naruto's feats ?



Minato helped with the sage bijuudama. Minato used the large rasengan. Minato created his own kurama cloak and thus is granted that strength. Minato can use shadow clones and thus would be capable of creating many more with kurama's chakra. 

So yes, he can do them.


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## Miyamoto Musashi (Sep 15, 2013)

LOL at Minato soloing. Either one has the potential to beat him. This is in base, of course.


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## richard lewis (Sep 15, 2013)

I Am Probably Wrong said:


> LOL at Minato soloing. Either one has the potential to beat him. This is in base, of course.



Most of us are arguing that BM minato could solo, not base


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 15, 2013)

No one can beat Itachi so BM Minato loses so badly that it makes him look like Genin Naruto.


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## Trojan (Sep 15, 2013)

^

Tayuya defeated him with basic Genjutsu. She was in base. 
Itachi is fodder level now.


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## Leon (Sep 15, 2013)

If at any point the situation is so dire that Minato decides to tie the fight by using Shiki Fujin, then the situation could possibly also become dire enough for Itachi to use Izanagi to avoid it and thus win.

Just sayin'.


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## Rocky (Sep 15, 2013)

Leon said:


> If at any point the situation is so dire that Minato decides to tie the fight by using Shiki Fujin, then Itachi would surely just Izanagi out of it if no other option is possible and thus win.
> 
> Just throwing that out there.



Except Itachi doesn't know Izanagi.


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## Trojan (Sep 15, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Except Itachi doesn't know Izanagi.



he knows about it, but he can't use it because he'll need Senju DNA for that
and he does not have it.


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 15, 2013)

Elia said:


> ^
> 
> Tayuya defeated him with basic Genjutsu. She was in base.
> Itachi is fodder level now.



 Itachi was holding back not to embarrass Sasuke of his amazing power.


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## Trojan (Sep 15, 2013)

NarutoX28 said:


> Itachi was holding back not to embarrass Sasuke of his amazing power.



the same with Tayuya that's why she did not use her CS 1 or 2.


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## Leon (Sep 15, 2013)

Elia said:


> he knows about it, but he can't use it because he'll need Senju DNA for that
> and he does not have it.



The Uchiha used Izanagi in battle during times of war many times. It's an Uchiha Kinjutsu.

Please read the manga.



Rocky said:


> Except Itachi doesn't know Izanagi.



Itachi, the prodigy of the Uchiha clan, wielder of the Mangekyo, who used Izanami, the Jutsu specifically designe just to counter Izanagi's mutiple user loop, doesn't know how to use the far more practical Izanagi itself.

Yes.


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## Jiraiya4Life (Sep 15, 2013)

Minato w/ Kyuubi would win 8/10. Itachi and Sasuke are a great powerhouse duo with mental prowess to almost match Minato's. However, Hiraishin + Kyuubi shroud is something I don't comprehend either Uchiha really defending against.

Minato w/o Kyuubi would win 5/10 because Hiraishin is STILL extremely haxxed--ESPECIALLY in Minato's strategically genius hands.


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## Rocky (Sep 15, 2013)

Leon said:


> Itachi, the prodigy of the Uchiha clan, wielder of the Mangekyo, who used Izanami, the Jutsu specifically designe just to counter Izanagi's mutiple user loop, doesn't know how to use the far more practical Izanagi itself.
> 
> Yes.



Yep. Unless you can prove otherwise....but you can't, because there's no hard evidence, and I'm sure of that.


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## Leon (Sep 15, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Yep. Unless you can prove otherwise....but you can't, because there's no hard evidence, and I'm sure of that.



It's called common sense, which you don't have.


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## Trojan (Sep 15, 2013)

Leon said:


> The Uchiha used Izanagi in battle during times of war many times. It's an Uchiha Kinjutsu.
> 
> Please read the manga.
> .




this


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## Rocky (Sep 15, 2013)

Leon said:


> It's called common sense, which you don't have.



I have plenty of common sense silly.  

______

If it was common sense, there would be hard evidence. 

.......But there isn't. It's simple. There isn't even a suggestion that Itachi knows the technique. You kind of need both the power of the Uchiha & Senju.


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## Sadgoob (Sep 15, 2013)

You don't need Senju DNA to use an Uchiha kinjutsu. Because it's an Uchiha kinjutsu. Itachi said it was used frequently by numerous clan members. These clan members also never had the Mangekyō, because Madara and Izuna were stated to be first.

So if they had no Mangekyō, then I doubt they were heavy into DNA splicing, which even when done by Orochimaru had a 90% mortality rate, which sure makes Itachi saying that Izanagi was an easy way for Uchiha to change outcomes strange.

Plus Zetsu said that Obito was one of the first to combine Senju and Uchiha abilities. Uchiha kinjutsu. Itachi also called Izanami its other half and didn't deny that Sasuke and him . It's an incredibly safe assumption that Itachi knows how to use the jutsu. 
​


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## Trojan (Sep 15, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> You don't need Senju DNA to use an Uchiha kinjutsu. Because it's an Uchiha kinjutsu. Itachi said it was very commonly used among the clan that had never awoken the Mangekyō.
> 
> Zetsu said that Obito was one of the first to combine Senju and Uchiha abilities.​



the uchiha are all thieves apparently. 

when did Zetsu say that? Regardless, itachi does not have any feat using this jutsu.


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## Sadgoob (Sep 15, 2013)

Elia said:


> the uchiha are all thieves apparently.



If men like Orochimaru and Madara had to bend over backwards to splice genetics, then it's _incredibly_ unlikely that scores of Uchiha with base Sharingan were doing it so often that Izanagi spamming against one another necessitated Izanami's invention.​


Elia said:


> when did Zetsu say that?



​


Elia said:


> Regardless, itachi does not have any feat using this jutsu.



True. But Minato has no genjutsu breaking feats. ​


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## Trojan (Sep 15, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> If men like Orochimaru and Madara had to bend over backwards to splice genetics, then it's _incredibly_ unlikely that scores of Uchiha with base Sharingan were doing it so often that Izanagi spamming against one another necessitated Izanami's invention.​
> 
> 
> ​
> ...



- I don't really know what to say about that, but that's kishi for you. 
- do you mean that part about unseen power? I don't think it's necessarily mean that! 
because MS's power are not the same, so it's likely ti unlock a new power, such as Kamui! 

- It does not matter since they won't be able to put him under a Genjutsu in the first place.


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## eyeknockout (Sep 15, 2013)

kyuubi minato isn't even a real character unless we are talking about edos, which we aren't since that isn't in the op (the same way when someone makes an itachi vs thread we assume it's alive itachi).

minato gets destroyed very badly if he really needs to face both, seriously though, he stands no chance at all


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## Trojan (Sep 15, 2013)

eyeknockout said:


> minato gets destroyed very badly if he really needs to face both, seriously though, he stands no chance at all



and how is they going to do so? their strongest jutsus can't do anything to him!


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## Rocky (Sep 16, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> You don't need Senju DNA to use an Uchiha kinjutsu. Because it's an Uchiha kinjutsu. Itachi said it was used frequently by numerous clan members. These clan members also never had the Mangekyō, because Madara and Izuna were stated to be first.
> 
> So if they had no Mangekyō, then I doubt they were heavy into DNA splicing, which even when done by Orochimaru had a 90% mortality rate, which sure makes Itachi saying that Izanagi was an easy way for Uchiha to change outcomes strange.
> 
> ...




Um, why would Obito lie to a dying Konan. It doesn't make any sense.


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## Bonly (Sep 16, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Um, why would Obito lie to a dying Konan. It doesn't make any sense.



Here Obito says "I suppose you've earned the right to know a little about my technique and *my history*". Then on this page in the third panel he says "*I * fought that battle to gain access to his abilities". Obito is still continuing the lie that he is Madara Uchiha and as we all know he isn't so he could've been lying about needing Senju+Uchiha to use it or he may not have.


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## UchihaX28 (Sep 16, 2013)

@Rocky

  Strategoob has a huge point.

 I do think Izanagi is attainable without Senju DNA, but an incomplete version. Danzo's Hashirama cells were a failure and look what happened to him. His Izanagi is incomplete in comparison to Obito's. It just wouldn't make sense if Uchiha were able to use Izanagi in the past and have the requirements be having Senju DNA because attaining Senju DNA is considered an incredible feat. Even Obito was surprised that Danzo had some Senju DNA somewhat.

 Edit: Bonly, stop ninja'ing me.


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## Rocky (Sep 16, 2013)

Bonly said:


> Here Obito says "I suppose you've earned the right to know a little about my technique and *my history*". Then on this page in the third panel he says "*I * fought that battle to gain access to his abilities". Obito is still continuing the lie that he is Madara Uchiha and as we all know he isn't so he could've been lying about needing Senju+Uchiha to use it or he may not have.



It sort of makes sense to keep the Madara facade going, as he probably just wants to keep safe. IIRC, he would keep his "goofy Tobi" game up even when no one was around.

I literally cannot figure out the reason he would lie about Izanagi's requirements though. Is telling Konan that Senju DNA is required for the technique beneficial to him in any way?


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## Bonly (Sep 16, 2013)

Rocky said:


> It sort of makes sense to keep the Madara facade going, as he probably just wants to keep safe. IIRC, he would keep his "goofy Tobi" game up even when no one was around.
> 
> I literally cannot figure out the reason he would lie about Izanagi's requirements though. Is telling Konan that Senju DNA is required for the technique beneficial to him in any way?



I have no clue why he would but there's always a slim chance but whether one thinks he lied or not is up to each since there's no much proof either way.


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## Ƶero (Sep 16, 2013)

Edo Minato would solo with literally no difficulty.


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