# Revival of F First Form Frieza vs Perfect Cell



## Orochibuto (Aug 16, 2015)

Who win this?


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## Tom Servo (Aug 16, 2015)

Frieza obe shot Gohan


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## trance (Aug 16, 2015)

Does Freeza have any notable feats in his first form?


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## Orochibuto (Aug 16, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> Frieza obe shot Gohan



This Gohan was massively weakened though.


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## MAPSK (Aug 16, 2015)

Freeza takes Cell to the gym. And by that I mean he bifurcates him on a barbell


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## Azrael Finalstar (Aug 17, 2015)

Freeza's got this, most likely. he's about 1/226th the power of 100% non golden freeza, and he's able to fight a God ki Goku


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## Xiammes (Aug 17, 2015)

We don't know if Gohan was in SSJ1 or 2, still Perfect Cell never one shotted a SSJ1 so this fight should be in Frieza's favor.


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## Iwandesu (Aug 17, 2015)

super perfect cell one shotted ascended super saiyan trunks didn't he ?
edit: oh, it is perfect cell...
yeah frieza seemed more casual


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## Xiammes (Aug 17, 2015)

iwandesu said:


> perfect cell one shotted ascended super saiyan trunks didn't he ?



Pretty sure Trunks was powered down and it was a surprise attack.


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## Iwandesu (Aug 17, 2015)

Xiammes said:


> Pretty sure Trunks was powered down and it was a surprise attack.


either way it was super perfect cell


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## Xiammes (Aug 17, 2015)

iwandesu said:


> either way it was super perfect cell



Point remains, he hasn't one shot a SSJ.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Aug 17, 2015)

I'd say a full power Perfect Cell can one-shot someone who mastered Super Saiyan 

Freeza merely one-shotted base Gohan, though his most suppressed form was still considered "in a different dimension" than everyone else present at the time


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## LordPerucho (Aug 17, 2015)

Gohan was in base when Base Frieza 1 shot him, he was so fast neither Gohan, Piccolo, Krillin saw him.

For a reason Fat Buu wasnt present, because Base Frieza is beneath him and he is the weakest among the Buus.

Frieza beats Perfect Cell, vs SP Cell can go either way, Cell is the better fighter though...


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## Visa (Aug 17, 2015)

Wait, when did Frieza one-shot Gohan?


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## Iwandesu (Aug 17, 2015)

gohan one shotted cell jr like they were nothing
cell jr were anscended super saiyan level
so really i wouldn't say super perfect cell can't casually one shot them


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Aug 17, 2015)

There's really no way to estimate how strong first form Freeza is. All he did was one-shot a base Gohan. It's implied that he's far stronger than even SSJ Gohan as it's said that he's in a completely different dimension than the Z-Fighters, but that's it. 

Aside from being far stronger than a SSJ, it's completely unknown on where he'd stack up. So it basically comes down to personal opinion. 

I have Freeza's first form above any version of Cell. I'd actually put him around SSJ3 Goku.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Aug 17, 2015)

We also don't know how weak Gohan's gotten.


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## MAPSK (Aug 17, 2015)

Azrael Finalstar said:


> We also don't know how weak Gohan's gotten.



Man, fuck Toriyama and that bullshit. Gohan was supposed to be the strongest in the universe


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## Xiammes (Aug 17, 2015)

Hoping Super Retcons the fight, Piccolo and First form Frieza fight, Gohan fights second and third form.


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## Byrd (Aug 17, 2015)

Its gonna end soo much worst just watch


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## Xiammes (Aug 17, 2015)

It can't possible be worse, unless Frieza just finger flicks gohan, but that isn't much worse.


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## Tom Servo (Aug 17, 2015)

If we calculate Frieza's first form power and divide by his maximum (120 mil) he's still thousands of times stronger than Buuhan nevermind Cell.


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## Darth Nihilus (Aug 17, 2015)

[YOUTUBE]RtMLYJVof_E[/YOUTUBE]


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## ∞Eternity∞ (Aug 17, 2015)

Off topic but i would have loved to see fat buu vs frezia . where was buu anyways


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## Qinglong (Aug 17, 2015)

>Toriyama
>handling retcons properly

pick one and only one


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## Tom Servo (Aug 17, 2015)

Thespiritdetective said:


> Off topic but i would have loved to see fat buu vs frezia . where was buu anyways



Choking on Mr. Satan's candy bar.


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## King Kakarot (Aug 17, 2015)

Pretty sure at the very least he's a ssj3 tier since Goku could sense his power all the way from Beerus temple


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Aug 17, 2015)

King Kakarot said:


> Pretty sure at the very least he's a ssj3 tier *since Goku could sense his power all the way from Beerus temple*



Since when? Goku didn't even realize Freeza was revived until Bulma contacted him and told him. If you're referring to him using instant transmission to get there then it wasn't Freeza's ki he locked onto, but the ki of all the Z-Fighters when they powered up.


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## King Kakarot (Aug 17, 2015)

Pretty sure Goku locked onto Freeza's ki

Watch the scene again it's on Youtube somewhere


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Aug 17, 2015)

King Kakarot said:


> Pretty sure Goku locked onto Freeza's ki
> 
> Watch the scene again it's on Youtube somewhere



He didn't. I've already seen it with subs and it's on YT with subs as well. The Z-Fighters are all told to power-up because Goku wasn't able to lock onto anyone's ki as they currently were because they were too far away. Once they raise their power to the max he's able to lock onto their ki. 



50:52-51:22


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## King Kakarot (Aug 17, 2015)

Freeza clearly sends his towards Goku hence them showing Freeza's face while he's using instant transmission


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Aug 17, 2015)

King Kakarot said:


> Freeza clearly sends his towards Goku hence them showing Freeza's face while he's using instant transmission



Did you even read the subs?  Goku locks onto the Z-Fighters ki, not Freeza's with Goku specifically saying "I've found them".

You're arguing for the sake of arguing at this point.


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## King Kakarot (Aug 17, 2015)

Then what was the point of showing Freeza's face while he's using instant transmission?

He was searching for them for a while and the minute Freeza's face pops up while he's searching for them he finds them 

Freeza clearly did nothing at all


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Aug 17, 2015)

King Kakarot said:


> Then what was the point of showing Freeza's face while he's using instant transmission?
> 
> He was searching for them for a while and the minute Freeza's face pops up while he's searching for them he finds them
> 
> *Freeza clearly did nothing at all*



Indeed he didn't. The subs make that abundantly clear, but you have no interest in accepting them.


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## King Kakarot (Aug 17, 2015)

He clearly did 

His face pops up while searching for the z fighters notice that the z fighters faces don't show up but he's looking for them

Fairly obvious what happened


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Aug 17, 2015)

King Kakarot said:


> He clearly did
> 
> His face pops up while searching for the z fighters notice that the z fighters faces don't show up but he's looking for them



>Goku specifically says he can't sense anyone as they're too far away
>Bulma asks the Z-Fighters to power-up in order to allow Goku to sense them
>Goku senses them with him even saying "I've found *THEM*", not I've found him

But yea, he totally sensed Freeza instead. 

You're either just that dense or you're being intellectually dishonest because the display and the dialogue make it abundantly clear what happened.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Aug 17, 2015)

intellectual dishonesty in a DB debate

why I never


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## King Kakarot (Aug 17, 2015)

>Goku was searching for a while and didn't find them immediately 

>Freeza clearly says that thier trying to reach Goku.

>Freeza's face then pops up while Goku is sensing them and finds the rest immediately 

It's obvious Goku sensed his ki then realized the z fighters were right next to Freeza's monstrous ki

They put his face while he's trying to sense them for a reason not just for the lulz

He couldn't find them if it wasn't for Freeza


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Aug 17, 2015)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> intellectual dishonesty in a DB debate
> 
> why I never



You and me both. 



King Kakarot said:


> >Goku was searching for a while and didn't find them immediately
> 
> >Freeza clearly says that thier trying to reach Goku.
> 
> ...




You're hopeless.


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## King Kakarot (Aug 17, 2015)

Concession accepted


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Aug 17, 2015)

If that makes you feel better. 

The subs and the scene itself already prove my point.


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## King Kakarot (Aug 17, 2015)

Subs

>Not even Japanese

>ignores contexts in the scenes

Edit: explain why Goku found the z fighters immediately when Freeza's face pops up then?


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Aug 17, 2015)

>Ignores

The irony


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## King Kakarot (Aug 17, 2015)

Still waiting onthe explanation on why Goku found them immediately when Freeza's face pops up.



Stop ignoring the contexts in the scenes


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## Warlordgab (Aug 17, 2015)

When I watched the movie right before telling the Z-warriors to power up and after Goku states he can't find their ki signatures Bulma screams to Goku that Frieza's monstrous ki shouldn't be difficult to find; then we get the scene and the dialogue being discussed here.

I don't want to take sides in this argument but I was curious nobody mentioned that :sweat


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Aug 17, 2015)

Wait away. 

I mean if a concession is what you want then you're free to have it.  I don't have much more to say anyway. The scene and the dialogue says all that needs to be said.


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## King Kakarot (Aug 17, 2015)

I thought it was really obvious when his face is shown when goku was looking for them



Edit: thank you for conceding then


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## Jag77 (Aug 17, 2015)

What the hell? 

Kazenshuu stating Revival of F Gohan in his mystic form is stronger than Gotenks and he can FURTHER go into Super Saiyan now? 

Then Gohan is massively weakened or lost his mystic transformation? 

Which one is it?


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## Azrael Finalstar (Aug 17, 2015)

Pointless arguments in a DB thread?
I never


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## OneSimpleAnime (Aug 18, 2015)

Jag77 said:


> What the hell?
> 
> Kazenshuu stating Revival of F Gohan in his mystic form is stronger than Gotenks and he can FURTHER go into Super Saiyan now?
> 
> ...



I brought this up in a DB and nobody believed me. Hes somehow able to stack ssj on top of mystic now according to DB heroes and some other sources i cant be bothered to find


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## xmysticgohanx (Aug 18, 2015)

SSJ RoF Gohan > RoF Piccolo > Boo arc Piccolo > CG Piccolo

CG Piccolo was holding his own against the Cell Jrs: 

Gohan should definitely be in Perfect Cell's range. Remember this a weaker post Z Sword Gohan, not a weaker Boo arc Gohan. Z Sword Gohan > Boo arc Goku


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## AgentAAA (Aug 18, 2015)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> I brought this up in a DB and nobody believed me. Hes somehow able to stack ssj on top of mystic now according to DB heroes and some other sources i cant be bothered to find



By Toei canon that's correct.
By manga canon that's utterly false.
to put it simply, that explanation has no meaniing when it comes to revival of F, especialyl when he himself admits he's weakened.
Primary canon trumping secondary canon, and all that.


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## Zhen Chan (Aug 18, 2015)

Azrael Finalstar said:


> and he's able to fight a God ki Goku



No hes not


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Aug 18, 2015)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> I brought this up in a DB and nobody believed me. Hes somehow able to stack ssj on top of mystic now according to DB heroes and some other sources i cant be bothered to find



DB Heroes isn't canon. RoF follows the manga canon and the manga clearly shows he can't stack SSJ on top of his mystic form.


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## Tom Servo (Aug 18, 2015)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> DB Heroes isn't canon. RoF follows the manga canon and the manga clearly shows he can't stack SSJ on top of his mystic form.



He could do that in GT as well according to the character files 

I mean as long as we're using references n all


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## Solrac (Aug 18, 2015)

The first thread where I have ever seen Cell lose to Frieza lol.


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## Xiammes (Aug 18, 2015)

Well in a popularity contest Frieza would stomp.


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## Solrac (Aug 18, 2015)

Xiammes said:


> Well in a popularity contest Frieza would stomp.



Why is that? Other than the new movie itself, I don't get how Frieza would be more popular. I mean I've always found Cell to be a more charismatic and interesting villain than Frieza.


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## Xiammes (Aug 18, 2015)

Frieza is the most iconic enemy in the dragonball series, only thing Cell has going for him is that he has amazing voice actors in all almost all languages.


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## Solrac (Aug 18, 2015)

But having the ability to absorb/swallow your foes and then integrating them into your being and gaining their power was the one thing that made Cell a more interesting and sublime DBZ villain for me than Frieza.


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Aug 18, 2015)

I personally enjoy Cell much more than Freeza, but in a popularity contest between the two there's no question that Freeza would come out on top. 

Most people think Freeza is where the series should of ended.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Aug 18, 2015)

In america, Cell's generally the more popular one (and i agree) whereas in the native Japan Freeza is.


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## Xiammes (Aug 18, 2015)

To bad it was only used to absorb the androids, as a villian he didn't really do much except be a threat to the world, his only motivation was to test himself. There really wasn't much of a conflict.

Frieza was this big bad that Gohan, Krillian and Vegeta had to maneuver around on Namek while Frieza was committing crimes against humanity against the Namekians. There was a massive struggle that lead to one of the longest and most satisfying fights in the series, Frieza never let down as a villain and kept on getting more & more insane the more they pushed him. You also have things like Vegeta's speech for his death, that really opened him up as a character.


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## MAPSK (Aug 18, 2015)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> I personally enjoy Cell much more than Freeza, but in a popularity contest between the two there's no question that Freeza would come out on top.
> 
> Most people think Freeza is where the series should of ended.



They both have great theme music but Freeza's is better


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## Jag77 (Aug 18, 2015)

So Mystic Super Saiyan isn't a thing? 

Fucking hell I hate how bitch made Gohan has become. 

"Hey I know I have a wife and child now and I know I used to be one of the most powerful fighters known but I sure as well won't balance studies and training to help keep that power in tact or anything while gods, demons and aliens arrive as usual huur duuur" - No father ever.


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## Agmaster (Aug 18, 2015)

People in here seem savvy about DBZ.  So what's the plan with Uub?  Never going to exist?


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## MAPSK (Aug 18, 2015)

Agmaster said:


> People in here seem savvy about DBZ.  So what's the plan with Uub?  Never going to exist?



Yes. And it should stay that way.


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## xmysticgohanx (Aug 18, 2015)

Jag77 said:


> So Mystic Super Saiyan isn't a thing?
> 
> Fucking hell I hate how bitch made Gohan has become.
> 
> "Hey I know I have a wife and child now and I know I used to be one of the most powerful fighters known but I sure as well won't balance studies and training to help keep that power in tact or anything while gods, demons and aliens arrive as usual huur duuur" - No father ever.



To be fair there is no point to training when

1. You're already crazy buff
2. You're stronger than 99% of people living on Earth
3. Goku and Vegeta have everything in the bag


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## Crimson Dragoon (Aug 18, 2015)

Jag77 said:


> So Mystic Super Saiyan isn't a thing?
> 
> Fucking hell I hate how bitch made Gohan has become.
> 
> "Hey I know I have a wife and child now and I know I used to be one of the most powerful fighters known but I sure as well won't balance studies and training to help keep that power in tact or anything while gods, demons and aliens arrive as usual huur duuur" - No father ever.



as people on another forum said:

"I'll use my daughter as a battery for Vegeta, but protect my family myself? No way, that's for daddy to do"

"Sit down for five minutes to become the strongest person ever? Nah, I don't have time for that. Besides. There's only been, like, three alien invasions in the past few years."


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## Jag77 (Aug 18, 2015)

xmysticgohanx said:


> To be fair there is no point to training when
> 
> 1. You're already crazy buff
> 2. You're stronger than 99% of people living on Earth
> 3. Goku and Vegeta have everything in the bag



But that's the thing. 
What if they aren't around at a certain time and moment? And its just you Videl and Pan? 

What if they're already having their hands busy -cough cough getting the earth destroyed from getting cocky against Frieza- 

Gohan lost his beefy stature too  

I just don't see why a father who used to be this all powerful infinite potential powerhouse wouldn't at least put back some of that effort when he now has a /kid/ who already died once. 

I'm hoping after Fukkatsu No F he realizes the stupidity in this book worm 24/7 thing is.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Aug 18, 2015)

RoF Gohan is undeniably pathetic


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## AgentAAA (Aug 18, 2015)

ehh, frankly, given he finds no joy in fighting or training and given besides cell he's never been incredibly useful I get it. I an't going to blame him any more than I blame the other z-warriors who settled down. at some point the conscientious objector is going to want to stop getting into fights constantly.


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## Tom Servo (Aug 18, 2015)

Azrael Finalstar said:


> In america, Cell's generally the more popular one (and i agree) whereas in the native Japan Freeza is.



Buu gets no love


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## LordPerucho (Aug 18, 2015)

Agmaster said:


> People in here seem savvy about DBZ.  So what's the plan with Uub?  Never going to exist?



God-Tier Uub by EoS most likely

Tori should just make Majuub canon(few decent ideas GT had), people would buy it if he were in that form as strong as SSGSSJ Goku/Vegeta.


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## Tom Servo (Aug 18, 2015)

LordPerucho said:


> God-Tier Uub by EoS most likely
> 
> Tori should just make Majuub canon(few decent ideas GT had), people would buy it if he were in that form as strong as SSGSSJ Goku/Vegeta.



GT was shit atleast up until the actual villains showed up (Baby, 17 Shadow Dragons) 

Don't get why people hate GT just because its non-canon....the ending was light years better than the manga's where Goku abandons everyone to kidnap a small Indian boy.


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## The Saltiest Pizza (Aug 18, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> GT was shit atleast up until the actual villains showed up (Baby, 17 Shadow Dragons)
> 
> Don't get why people hate GT just because its non-canon....the ending was light years better than the manga's where Goku abandons everyone to kidnap a small Indian boy.



I don't remember how much sense the ending even made, if it made any at all.


Also, people hate GT because it's ripe with plot holes and fridge logic.

Baby's explanation for how he was created made zero sense.
Super 17 is apparently only twice as strong as Android 17.
Goku not being able to use instant transmission at some point made no sense.
The negative energy existing in the dragon balls makes no sense for a number of reasons.
How Frieza could have had his empire in tact when there are people as strong as Majin Buu running around in the cosmos.

It's just awful.


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## AgentAAA (Aug 18, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> GT was shit atleast up until the actual villains showed up (Baby, 17 Shadow Dragons)
> 
> Don't get why people hate GT just because its non-canon....the ending was light years better than the manga's where Goku abandons everyone to kidnap a small Indian boy.



I hate it because it wasted an episode where SSJ4 gogeta appears, by making the entire episode essentially come down to "And he shoots confetti at Omega shenron and it was FUNNEH"


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## LordPerucho (Aug 18, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> GT was shit atleast up until the actual villains showed up (Baby, 17 Shadow Dragons)
> 
> Don't get why people hate GT just because its non-canon....the ending was light years better than the manga's where Goku abandons everyone to kidnap a small Indian boy.



Its because it was dull and filled with PIS moments, it makes Shippuden and Bleach look like Hunter x Hunter..

Beerus in just 5 episodes has more development than 17, Shadow Dragons, Baby.

Baby was a decent villain though.


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## AgentAAA (Aug 18, 2015)

LordPerucho said:


> Baby was a decent villain though.



frankly, give Baby just a bit more development, and a voice actor that doesn't sound like he's recently been kicked in the gonads every time he talked, and I might have actually liked the guy. he had potential.
Bad dialogue and an overall meh evil plot(and in my opinion a hugely botched opportunity to show off SSJ4 in SOME better shape or form, as it probably could have been introduced into the arc better) combined with an awkward insertion into the plot reduced his cred heavily.
Meanwhile the shadow dragons are some of the least quality villains I've ever seen. I will put fucking Kaguya above omega shenron, and outside of Nuova who was a cool guy and who's heel-face turn was actually a well thought-out twist, they were a bore through and through


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## Distracted (Aug 18, 2015)

Giving a general warning about staying on topic otherwise I'll have to either close the thread or clean it up.


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## Tom Servo (Aug 18, 2015)

Colonel Awesome said:


> I don't remember how much sense the ending even made, if it made any at all.
> 
> 
> Also, people hate GT because it's ripe with plot holes and fridge logic.
> ...



All of it did make sense....Super 17 wasn't twice as strong his power dramatically increased like with fusions...

There were less plot holes in GT then there were in dbz



LordPerucho said:


> *Its because it was dull and filled with PIS moments, it makes Shippuden and Bleach look like Hunter x Hunter..*
> 
> Beerus in just 5 episodes has more development than 17, Shadow Dragons, Baby.
> 
> Baby was a decent villain though.



Stopped reading here since this is where you lost all credibility. 

back on topic.....Frieza stomps


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## Reznor (Aug 19, 2015)

Considering that the Goku Uub fought in the the tournament is now retconned much stronger, Uub has a chance at relevance.

Frieza wins this.


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