# Karna vs Saber (Master-Rin) Fate Stay Night



## astrallite (Feb 5, 2015)

Well supposedly Saber wipes the floor Berserker if she has Rin as a Servant. I assume with or without avalon makes no difference since Saber can't attack while using avalon anyway.

Pure melee combat who wins?


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## shade0180 (Feb 5, 2015)

Wrong location...


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## Brightsteel (Feb 5, 2015)

The Servant who's supposedly on par with Gilgamesh probably wins.....


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Feb 5, 2015)

You do realize that Karna passively reduces damage by 90% right?

You also realize he's good enough with his spear that his normal attacks are A-rank and bypassed Armor of Fafnir's defense

The Same Armor of Fafnir wielded by the guy who's on par with King Arthur in Europe and who would by WOG completely Wreck Saber's Shit due to Dragon Extermination


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## Byrd (Feb 5, 2015)

Karna wins... Honestly when compared to other Servants especially in Fate/Apocrypha or the Fate/Extra and CC, Saber isn't all that good


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## Xelloss (Feb 5, 2015)

It completely depends on which Karna its stats and even NP are different between apocrypha and fate extra ccc

Karna from Apocrypha was basically living on willpower since his fight with Vlad. (2 volumes) and even there accomplish many things.

Karna CCC doesn't have his armor and his spear is less impressive (in rank) compared to Apocrypha, still Saber won't get a lot of oportunities vs Karna and only may live enough due to her instinct, I will give him a fair chance vs CCC Karna with Avalon.


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## Qinglong (Feb 5, 2015)

CCC Karna gave up his armor to save his master, unless there's an OP fiat he did originally have it


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Feb 5, 2015)

CCC karna was like horrendously gimped

No mana bc Jinako is shit
Can't manifest his spear for more than a few secs
No Armor


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## BreakFlame (Feb 5, 2015)

Rin as master means no Avalon, which means no lolinvincibility.

I'm not familiar with this Karna guy, but from discussion he sounds like a better melee fighter. Does he have dragon slaying as well? Because that stuff wrecks Saber like no tomorrow.

One thing though, what's his durability? Because Excalibur tends to oneshot everything it hits.

Edit: Wait, pure melee means no Excaliblast either, doesn't it. Grr, she's probably dead then.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Feb 5, 2015)

He doesn't need dragon slaying when he passively reduces damage by 90% due to his armor

Or when one of his NP's is comparable to a nuclear warhead going off in your face

Or when he can trade his armor for an anti-god spear

Or when his spear skill is such that he can hit you over 70 times, all in vital spots.

It doesn't help that Saber is chivalrous as fuck when it comes to fighting

Karna just gets shit done, period.


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## Amae (Feb 5, 2015)

Byrd said:


> Karna wins... Honestly when compared to other Servants especially in Fate/Apocrypha or the Fate/Extra and CC, Saber isn't all that good


There's almost like fifteen servants outright better than Saber.


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## Regicide (Feb 5, 2015)

astrallite said:


> I assume with or without avalon makes no difference since Saber can't attack while using avalon anyway.


..You're not supposed to use Avalon like a constant shield.


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## BreakFlame (Feb 5, 2015)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> He doesn't need dragon slaying when he passively reduces damage by 90% due to his armor
> 
> Or when one of his NP's is comparable to a nuclear warhead going off in your face
> 
> ...



Dragon Slaying is the reason the other guy would wreck Saber, though.

Also, if she had Avalon none of that matters since nothing in the Nasuverse that can't surpass True Magic (Which means no Servants) can penetrate it.

But this is Rin!Saber at pure melee, so she's screwed 

What series is this guy in, anyway? I want to read up on him a little.


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## Iwandesu (Feb 5, 2015)

BreakFlame said:


> Dragon Slaying is the reason the other guy would wreck Saber, though.
> 
> Also, if she had Avalon none of that matters since nothing in the Nasuverse that can't surpass True Magic (Which means no Servants) can penetrate it.
> 
> ...


fate apocrypha and fate extra ccc


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## Iwandesu (Feb 5, 2015)

BreakFlame said:


> What series is this guy in, anyway? I want to read up on him a little.


fate apocrypha and fate extra ccc


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## shade0180 (Feb 5, 2015)

> What series is this guy in, anyway? I want to read up on him a little.



CCC is a game in PSP... the other is apocrypha an LN...


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## BreakFlame (Feb 5, 2015)

Thanks.

So he has a spear in the same class as freaking Excalibur, and passive armor that would make any attack not from something on that level meaningless. Too bad he can't use them at the same time, but I'm not sure it matters. 

So yeah, Saber isn't winning without Avalon.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Feb 5, 2015)

>Can't use both at the same time
>Despite his armor being Always On and him taking out his Spear and being able to use it

Karna's only issue is mana, because he's literally a walking mana siphon.


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## Sablés (Feb 5, 2015)

Tfw Gil solos both.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Feb 5, 2015)

BreakFlame said:


> Dragon Slaying is the reason the other guy would wreck Saber, though.
> 
> Also, if she had Avalon none of that matters since nothing in the Nasuverse that can't surpass True Magic (Which means no Servants) can penetrate it.
> 
> ...


Not Really

Siegfried would wreck Saber because Armor of Fafnir is fucking broken as hell

He has an Excalibur Esque sword with Balmung which just so happens to include his dragonslayer attribute and his swordsmanship is noted to have ascended  beyond the realm of humans


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## BreakFlame (Feb 5, 2015)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> >Can't use both at the same time
> >Despite his armor being Always On and him taking out his Spear and being able to use it
> 
> Karna's only issue is mana, because he's literally a walking mana siphon.



He has to sacrifice <Kavacha and Kundala> to use <Vasavi Shakti>. At least that's what it says on the wiki, and that would be consistent with what little I know of the legend (I think it's the same one used in Mondaiji).


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Feb 5, 2015)

You
realize I wasn't talking about Vasavi Shakti which isn't even needed to wreck the shit out of saber, right?


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## BreakFlame (Feb 5, 2015)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> You
> realize I wasn't talking about Vasavi Shakti which isn't even needed to wreck the shit out of saber, right?



Actually, no I didn't. Vasavi Shakti is his Rank A++ NP, which is the same rank as Excalibur. His only other NP was Brahmastra, which was a laser beam.

So he can't use the Excalibur-level spear at the same time as the Sun armor, which is what my original post was saying.

I'm not suggesting he can't take her anyway with (whatever passes for) a normal spear, since Saber kind of sucks at straight melee, just that he isn't Excaliblasting her anymore than she is him.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Feb 5, 2015)

Spirit: 	Karna
Master: 	Shirou Kotomine
Alignment: 	Lawful Good
Strength: 	B 	Mana: 	B
Endurance: 	C 	Luck: 	D
Agility: 	A 	N. Phantasm: 	EX 


Literally Wat


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Feb 5, 2015)

Kavacha and Kundala is always fucking active

How can he not use it at the same time as brahmastra despite it being a passive "Always Active" Type Noble Phantasm?

Like jesus christ


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Feb 5, 2015)

You also realize that Saber never goes straight for Excaliblast right?

While Karna's perfectly content to shove Brahmastra down someone's throat right off the bat

which is what he was going to do to Jeanne had Siegfried and Gordes not intervened


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## BreakFlame (Feb 5, 2015)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> Kavacha and Kundala is always fucking active
> 
> How can he not use it at the same time as brahmastra despite it being a passive "Always Active" Type Noble Phantasm?
> 
> Like jesus christ



*I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT BRAHMASTRA*

Brahmastra isn't the Excalibur spear I was talking about. Vasavi Shakti is ranked as a A++ NP, which is the same as Excalibur. So unless you're saying that Brahmastra is as strong or stronger than Vasavi Shakti, which would make the latter completely and utterly useless and meaningless, Brahmastra isn't rank A++.

And he has to sacrifice Kavacha and Kundala to use Vasavi Shakti.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Feb 5, 2015)

He doesn't need vasava shakti to punk saber

how are you not getting this?


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Feb 5, 2015)

And Vasava Shakti is EX rank, just letting you know

Because Fuck using CCC Karna in this matchup since he doesn't have most of his major tools available to him


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## Byrd (Feb 5, 2015)

put it like this... Any attack Saber does.. he literally is gonna laugh at it

He is also said to be on par with Gil... which we know that Gil >>>> Saber in a non PIS/CIS match

His spear is more powerful than Excalibur and I think even Gil might be afraid of it


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## BreakFlame (Feb 5, 2015)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> He doesn't need vasava shakti to punk saber
> 
> how are you not getting this?



What I said: He has an excalibur rank spear (because that's what it says on the wiki), and Sun armor. *It's too bad he can't use them at the same time.*

I explicitly said it wouldn't matter in a straight melee fight, and Saber would lose anyway. The only thing I was saying is that it's kind of disappointing he can't use them at the same time.

No one but you was talking about Saber winning or losing. Or Saber at all.


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## Qinglong (Feb 5, 2015)

Stop using the wiki if you don't know what you're talking about


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Feb 5, 2015)

BreakFlame said:


> What I said: He has an excalibur rank spear (because that's what it says on the wiki), and Sun armor. *It's too bad he can't use them at the same time.*
> 
> I explicitly said it wouldn't matter in a straight melee fight, and Saber would lose anyway. The only thing I was saying is that it's kind of disappointing he can't use them at the same time.
> 
> No one but you was talking about Saber winning or losing. Or Saber at all.


Vasavi Shakti is EX-rank

How is Excalibur in ANY way comparable to that?


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## ShadowReaper (Feb 5, 2015)

If it's prime Karna, then he would win by throwing Vasavi Shakti.


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## ShadowReaper (Feb 5, 2015)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> He doesn't NEED to use Vasavi Shakti to Punk Saber
> 
> How is this so fucking hard to grasp for people?
> 
> ...



Not very familiar with Fate Apocrypha.
If he can do that much without using his strongest weapon, then Saber loses.


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## BreakFlame (Feb 5, 2015)

Qinglong said:


> Stop using the wiki if you don't know what you're talking about





> Japanese name:	ヴァサヴィ・シャクティ
> Title:	O Sun, Abide to Death
> Japanese title:	日輪よ、死に随え
> Owner:	Lancer of Red
> ...



I din't know the guy, so asked where he was from. I went to the Type/MOON wiki and looked him up. I saw enough to convince me he was out of Saber's league, which I acknowledged.

I was curious about his spear, so I went to it's page. It said A++. I made a comment on it being impressive and that it was too bad he couldn't use it without giving up his armor.

I have not once argued about Saber being stronger than him or him losing the fight. Me and Robert were going at it because he thought I was talking about Brahmastra and took offense to it (I think). I was just trying to explain I meant Vasavi Shakti.

What exactly are you guys complaining about?


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Feb 5, 2015)

You realize that A++ is for CCC karna who's nerfed as all hell, right?

not for Lancer of Red who has an EX-rank in his Noble Phantasm stat


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## Xelloss (Feb 5, 2015)

Apocrypha last I recall list the lance as A++ while the game list it as A+

So its correct to asume its around the same level of mystery as Excalibur


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## BreakFlame (Feb 5, 2015)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> You realize that A++ is for CCC karna who's nerfed as all hell, right?
> 
> not for Lancer of Red who has an EX-rank in his Noble Phantasm stat



No, I didn't. Seriously, I just went to the wiki, looked up the thing, and said "Damn, that's not bad".

And suddenly I got jumped.

I'm sorry for not realizing he got nerfed in one of his appearances, but like I said I don't know the guy.


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## Qinglong (Feb 5, 2015)

Then stop posting if you don't know, and research first.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Feb 5, 2015)

It's good to remember wikis are only basic overviews and in no way a substitute for knowledge of the source material.


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## astrallite (Feb 6, 2015)

Regicide said:


> ..You're not supposed to use Avalon like a constant shield.



Sure that's my point there's a lag between going on the defense with Avalon vs going back into offense. It's kind of like that DBZ Villain Hatchiyak who alternates between offense and defense. So even if Rin-Saber had Avalon all she could do is put up Avalon during a powerful attack, but eventually she has to drop the shield and engage.


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## zenieth (Feb 6, 2015)

Xelloss said:


> Karna from Apocrypha was basically living on willpower since his fight with Vlad. (2 volumes) and even there accomplish many things.



No he wasn't.

Literally the only thing he didn't have access to was his bullshit prana burst. And even that he could use on and off.

Apocrypha Karna was basically the best you're going to get short of On Fire all the time.

There's also no way in hell, Karna was on par with Gilgamesh. And I'm damn sure there's no material that suggests as much.


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## zenieth (Feb 6, 2015)

Here's the issue.

Saber is roughly equal to Mordred.

Mordred is physically better than Siegfried, but Defensively much worse. They're essentially equals.

The problem with Saber is. Saber doesn't have mordred's endurance, nor Siegfried's defense.

Which means Saber has to rely on two things against Karna.

Excalibur
Avalon

Saber isn't alter, so she's not going to use excalibur easily and even assuming she does, it's going to get dropped to negligible damage.

Saber's only bet is to some how get Karna to whiff his spear with Avalon and then excaliblast him.

Problem is, Karna isn't Gilgamesh cocky and Saber isn't Mordred smart.


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## Xelloss (Feb 6, 2015)

I am pretty sure Karna was stated to live on willpower since Vlad impale him from inside on the head (but correct me).

I am on the side of Karna only a wimped Karna vs the best Arturia with Avalon will be a fair match.


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## zenieth (Feb 8, 2015)

Xelloss said:


> I am pretty sure Karna was stated to live on willpower since Vlad impale him from inside on the head (but correct me).



Not evne close and that's not what happened. That's just bullshit summary stuff that turned out to be a lie.


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## astrallite (Feb 9, 2015)

But didn't Karna lose to Siegfried, who basically just a poor man's Heracles--he has the damage reduction but without the extra lives?


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Feb 9, 2015)

Karna beat the fuck out of siegfried


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## Brightsteel (Feb 9, 2015)

Didn't Lancer of Black using his Demonic Defender of State boost manage to fight evenly against Karna?


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## zenieth (Feb 9, 2015)

yes to the that.

And Siegfried did beat Karna, but that was entirely situational and due to outside interference.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Feb 9, 2015)

Brightsteel said:


> Didn't Lancer of Black using his Demonic Defender of State boost manage to fight evenly against Karna?



He did

that's how he managed to temporarily put him out of commision with Kazikli bey manifesting inside Karna.

and it's Demonic Defender of the state+ Retarded Strong Fame boost from Romania


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## GaRbS (Feb 9, 2015)

> You also realize that Saber never goes straight for Excaliblast right?


She wanted to use the Excaliblast against Caster's golems...

Vasavi Shakti is not on par with Excalibur, the first can kill gods because it's and anti gods weapon, while the latter is on the level of the magecraft of divine spirits.

I'm not seeing Karna surviving an Excaliblast even with Kavacha and Kundala, a tent of that power is more than enough to kill a Servant.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Feb 16, 2015)

It's actually B+ Attack negation

still doesn't change the fact that he's going to indian karate the shit out of saber


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## deiger1111 (Feb 16, 2015)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> It's actually B+ Attack negation



oops, my bad

edited.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Feb 16, 2015)

Gil is arrogant, but he's not stupid

Not by any means.

I mean he's got enough presence of mind to not even attempt to get in close to Kojiro and attempt a sword duel despite shitting all over him in terms of stats and abilities.

Pissing Gil off just results in him either spamming swords harder or just pulling out his 1-2 combo of enkidu+Ea


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## deiger1111 (Feb 16, 2015)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> Gil is arrogant, but he's not stupid
> 
> Not by any means.
> 
> ...



i assumed uncrowned arms mastership gets your stat to appear lower and well, i don't think simply pissing him off will get him to take out ea+enkidu. probably harder sword spam, which i think the armour can deal with(gob supposedly has a++ phantasms, right? well, if he can resist divine spirit magecraft which is equal excaliblast in terms of output, i'd say a++ endurance and magic resistance  cuts the corners rather well here. of course serious gil godstomps

also, how will enkidu restraint work against passive a++ endurance and magic resistance, divinity factor notwithstanding? I mean heracles could shrug it off with sheer badassery, right?


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## BreakFlame (Feb 16, 2015)

Actually, Gil should have a fair advantage here since Enkidu gets stronger the higher the enemies divinity level, correct? If Karnas level is A++, Enkidu would be almost unbreakable.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Feb 16, 2015)

Karna has A-rank in divinity

Where the fuck did you get A++ from


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## BreakFlame (Feb 16, 2015)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> Karna has A-rank in divinity
> 
> Where the fuck did you get A++ from



My bad, I mixed it with his magic resistance.

Anyway, doesn't that put him at a huge disadvantage against Enkidu?


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Feb 16, 2015)

It does

the thing is, Gil usually doesn't use Enkidu unless he knows it'll be effective or as a last resort. It's the treasure he values even more than Ea after all.

What that means is that due to Karna's personality of "Get shit done, period" Gil has more chances of losing. It can really go either way depending on who pulls out  their big guns first, but I lean more towards Karna due to his personality.

Anyways, Gil vs Karna is off topic as fuck


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## Reborns Allmark (Feb 17, 2015)

^I always thought it would be a Lancelot-type of deal, when it came to Karna. I guess, I was wrong.


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## deiger1111 (Feb 17, 2015)

zenieth said:


> Except Gil doesn't get pissed off by his faults.
> 
> He only *ONLY* gets pissed off by fakers. Anderson is able to perfectly discern his weakpoints, and Gil thanks him for it and acknowledges it, because he's got no problem with the truth.
> 
> ...



im sure a++ endurance and magic resistance means something against gob spam
afaik, gob rank max is a++ and going by the stat sheet, he can resist excaliblas level outputs - so id say unless gil pulls out something specific like insta gae bolg, the normal no bars held gob is going to be a non-factor for a while here
lancelot, and saber at the end of zero held their own against gob for sometime and karna has better stats and np than both of them, though admittedly, he wasn't going for the kill in the latter
i'll wager a guess that with uncrowned arms mastership, he's not getting insta ea+enkidu to the face
recognizing karna at first glance i don't believe. what's your proof for that?

edit: what his special circumstance for getting owned like a bitch by dark sakura?


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## Qinglong (Feb 17, 2015)

Gilgamesh's GoB murked Berserker like he was fish filet despite Godhand


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## zenieth (Feb 17, 2015)

deiger1111 said:


> edit: what his special circumstance for getting owned like a bitch by dark sakura?



You mean that one bitch he murdered super hard and then didn't realize he didn't murk her hard enough and ven when she consumed him, she noticed that if she didn't digest him he'd alien chest burst her shit?

On top of the fact that she has a super affinity against servants?


Also Lancelot and Saber held out nothing. Saber was straight skewered and the writer went on record noting that if Gil wasn't CS'd Lancelot was going to be murdered in under 10 seconds.

And see the above post above Godhand.


Gil is the guy who has an NP that can take him across the galaxy in an instant and another that can n sell TG.

You think GoB wouldn't have seven different weapons with the express purpose of making Karna shit himself?


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## deiger1111 (Feb 18, 2015)

zenieth said:


> You mean that one bitch he murdered super hard and then didn't realize he didn't murk her hard enough and ven when she consumed him, she noticed that if she didn't digest him he'd alien chest burst her shit?
> 
> On top of the fact that she has a super affinity against servants?


so, bottomline is, he got arrogant and careless and subsequently owned
thanks for confirming 
here's a scenario: 
sees karna
sees his stat is shit
murks him with a dozen mediocre np's and gloats at the resulting explosion
gets insta nuked by the time smoke clears 


> Also Lancelot and Saber held out nothing. Saber was straight skewered and the writer went on record noting that if Gil wasn't CS'd Lancelot was going to be murdered in under 10 seconds.


point conceded 


> And see the above post above Godhand.


because gob happens to be most perfect counter against god's hand? take a dozen a rank np's and we have a heracles toast(not even counting shit caliburn burning 7 lives, that was unimpressive as hell) but golden armour provides a++ endurance and magic resistance, enough to withstand gob combined with an a rank agility to murk him with some arrow nukes


> Gil is the guy who has an NP that can take him across the galaxy in an instant and another that can n sell TG.


 i thought extra ccc feats are by convention disregarded unless specified? guess that's different here


> You think GoB wouldn't have seven different weapons with the express purpose of making Karna shit himself?


i call nlf


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Feb 18, 2015)

>Got owned
>Despite Sakura needing to inmediately convert him into mana or he'd have killed her from the inside out

Legit owning


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## Qinglong (Feb 18, 2015)

deiger1111 said:


> so, bottomline is, he got arrogant and careless and subsequently owned
> thanks for confirming
> here's a scenario:
> sees karna
> ...



>arrogant
>despite GoBing her from the start

yeah sure



> because gob happens to be most perfect counter against god's hand? take a dozen a rank np's and we have a heracles toast(not even counting shit caliburn burning 7 lives, that was unimpressive as hell) but golden armour provides a++ endurance and magic resistance, enough to withstand gob combined with an a rank agility to murk him with some arrow nukes



It has to be A rank just to have the chance to get passed Godhand, Herakles has deflected shit that could get passed it no less than twice



> i thought extra ccc feats are by convention disregarded unless specified? guess that's different here



just the origin boost unless specified

his actually lost most of his treasure in Extra weakening his GoB

i call nlf[/QUOTE]


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## deiger1111 (Feb 18, 2015)

Qinglong said:


> >arrogant
> >despite GoBing her from the start
> 
> yeah sure


gob-ing people is his _only_ offence against legitimate threats. thinking she was done just like that, that was arrogance. not attacking her or trying to strangle her or something, that wouldn't have been arrogance, it would simply be idiocy.
not sure why we're quibbling the semantics though.



> It has to be A rank just to have the chance to get passed Godhand, Herakles has deflected shit that could get passed it no less than twice


so? point is, gob is _the perfect_ counter against god's hand. 
why is that even relevant here?


> just the origin boost unless specified
> 
> his actually lost most of his treasure in Extra weakening his GoB
> 
> i call nlf


okay.


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## Qinglong (Feb 18, 2015)

deiger1111 said:


> *gob-ing people is his only offence against legitimate threats. *



Except Naw, try again later



> thinking she was done just like that, that was arrogance. not attacking her or trying to strangle her or something, that wouldn't have been arrogance, it would simply be idiocy.
> not sure why we're quibbling the semantics though.



Why yes, he totally expected a bitch who got murked super hard to survive because diet coke cthulu is empowering them

and he still was about to bust out if she didn't convert him to mana post haste thanks to affinity for wrecking servants

legit owning caused solely by arrogance right there



> so? point is, gob is _the perfect_ counter



*against every other Servant Gil faces


Correct



> i call nlf



Word of God flat out confirms he can no sell Dimensional Refraction Phenomenon because fuck you that's why


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## deiger1111 (Feb 18, 2015)

Qinglong said:


> Except Naw, try again later


except wut? he gouges their heart out like against illya? try that on servant level entities 
weren't you the one saying gil wasn't stupid?


> Why yes, he totally expected a bitch who got murked super hard to survive because diet coke cthulu is empowering them
> 
> and he still was about to bust out if she didn't convert him to mana post haste thanks to affinity for wrecking servants


why are we even talking about this? so, the fact that she had to convert him to prana somehow balances out getting murked? dun thin so
shoulda been more careful and less arrogant






> *against every other Servant Gil faces
> 
> 
> Correct


twelve hour standoff against lancer says hi




> Word of God flat out confirms he can no sell Dimensional Refraction Phenomenon because fuck you that's why


aren't all nlf per word of god, in the sense that it comes from their material? no point arguing that


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## Brightsteel (Feb 18, 2015)

> twelve hour standoff against lancer says hi



Lancer is basically the only exception to this....Protection from Arrows and whatnot.


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## Qinglong (Feb 18, 2015)

deiger1111 said:


> except wut? he gouges their heart out like against illya? try that on servant level entities
> weren't you the one saying gil wasn't stupid?



Are you retarded?



> why are we even talking about this? so, the fact that she had to convert him to prana somehow balances out getting murked? dun thin so
> shoulda been more careful and less arrogant



Arrogance wasn't the major reason he got swallowed

Do you think he's omniscient too?





> aren't all nlf per word of god, in the sense that it comes from their material? no point arguing that



You're not even making sense at this point


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## Sablés (Feb 18, 2015)

Hypothetically speaking, how would Saber fare against Karna in England?


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## Qinglong (Feb 18, 2015)

She would do better than anywhere else but unlike with Diarmuid and Cu she wasn't on equal footing to begin with, so it would just delay the inevitable, if that


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## Sablés (Feb 18, 2015)

Qinglong said:


> She would do better than anywhere else but unlike with Diarmuid and Cu she wasn't on equal footing to begin with, so it would just delay the inevitable, if that



I was more referring to the issue of a Heroic Spirit's strength being paramount to the  weight of their legend. Vlad is one of (or possibly the) strongest servant summoned in F/A because of the location.  This is mostly speculation but I doubt Vlad's legend exceeds Arturia's in their respective homelands to the extent where, if at all,  she wouldn't have a chance at beating Karna.


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## manidk (Feb 18, 2015)

Liquid said:


> I was more referring to the issue of a Heroic Spirit's strength being paramount to the  weight of their legend. Vlad is one of (or possibly the) strongest servant summoned in F/A because of the location.  This is mostly speculation but I doubt Vlad's legend exceeds Arturia's in their respective homelands to the extent where, if at all,  she wouldn't have a chance at beating Karna.



Vlad also had Demonic Defender of the State and Kazikli Bey's mechanics working in his favor, not just the fame boost.

I don't believe Saber really has a counter to Karna's armor, anyways.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Feb 19, 2015)

She doesn't

She's also Chivalrous when it comes to fighting strong opponents

While Karna's just like
"Hi" *stab* "Bye"


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## deiger1111 (Feb 19, 2015)

Qinglong said:


> Are you retarded?


sometimes, i do wonder


> Arrogance wasn't the major reason he got swallowed


 so you admit that arrogance was a reason nevertheless
that's good enough for me


> Do you think he's omniscient too?


so people say, i don't know
'he would recognize karna and use enkidu right off the bat, he isn't stupid' so they say
i can't think of anything other than omniscience to justify this line of argumentation





> You're not even making sense at this point


neither were you
word of god says many things
if we took word of god as benchmark, part one haku would be lightspeed

seems like we went quite a way for something so off topic
let's end it here


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## Sablés (Feb 19, 2015)

manidk said:


> Vlad also had Demonic Defender of the State and Kazikli Bey's mechanics working in his favor, not just the fame boost.
> 
> I don't believe Saber really has a counter to Karna's armor, anyways.



Doesn't matter because I wasn't going into specifics. Vlad was auto-coined a beast only Rider and Lancer could contend with on sheer principle, before anyone knew what he could do besides chuck spears at shit.

Anyway, I wasn't really expecting a definite answer since Saber in England is pretty much fanfic. Just doubting Karna would manhandle her as per the norm with the fame boost.


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## Xelloss (Feb 19, 2015)

This isn't going anywhere and conclusion was reach time ago.


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