# The Avengers or The Dark Knight Rises



## staticbeast (Sep 9, 2012)

Between these two movies The Avengers is so much cooler, it's apart of the Marvel Cinematic Universe and it has a heavy use of science fiction & fantasy, The Avengers has a story that is way better then The Dark Knight Rises.

What ruins The Dark Knight Rises is that it's too realistic staying grounded into reality and staying away from science fiction & fantasy elements, the story was very bland and Bane was stupid. Christopher Nolan made his trilogy too realistic taking all the fun out of it.


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## Bart (Sep 9, 2012)

The story was bland and Bane was stupid? _*points to the Avengers*_

It lacks the magic of the tradition Marvel films such as Blade, Blade 2, Spider-Man, Spidey 2, X-Men and X2.

Comparing The Dark Knight Rises to the Avengers _overall_ is a bit like comparing the the works of Shakespeare to someone posting fanfiction on Naruto Forums if I'm being brutally honest with you there; just wait until _Man of Steel_ comes out.


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## staticbeast (Sep 9, 2012)

Bart said:


> The story was bland and Bane was stupid? _*points to the Avengers*_
> 
> It lacks the magic of the tradition Marvel films such as Blade, Blade 2, Spider-Man, Spidey 2, X-Men and X2.
> 
> Comparing The Dark Knight Rises to the Avengers _overall_ is a bit like comparing the the works of Shakespeare to someone posting fanfiction on Naruto Forums if I'm being brutally honest with you there; just wait until _Man of Steel_ comes out.



The Avengers had Loki and an army of Skrull.


I thought it was very lame for Christopher Nolan to make his Batman trilogy too realistic to the point were there is a lack of science fiction & fantasy elements.


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## Bart (Sep 9, 2012)

Loki and an army who surprisingly knew how to speak english and tragically had no character development whatsoever :3

The thing is that Nolan's _Dark Knight Trilogy_ isn't as realistic as people think it is but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing at all.


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## Stunna (Sep 9, 2012)

The Avengers quite handily for me.


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## staticbeast (Sep 9, 2012)

Bart said:


> Loki and an army who surprisingly knew how to speak english and tragically had no character development whatsoever :3
> 
> The thing is that Nolan's _Dark Knight Trilogy_ isn't as realistic as people think it is but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing at all.




Christopher Nolan never wanted superpowered characters or fantasy based stuff like magic.

Whats with the lack of a heavy use of science fiction & fantasy?.


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## masamune1 (Sep 9, 2012)

Wait, when did anyone in Loki's army speak? 

(Haven't seen it in a while).


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## staticbeast (Sep 9, 2012)

There were alot of characters that were developed like Hulk, Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, hell Loki had was developed in the Thor movie.

Have you even seen the other movies like The Incredible Hulk, Thor, Iron Man, Captain America: The First Avenger.


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## Bart (Sep 9, 2012)

masamune1 said:


> Wait, when did anyone in Loki's army speak?
> 
> (Haven't seen it in a while).



The credits with Thanos 



staticbeast said:


> There were alot of characters that were developed like Hulk, Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, hell Loki had was developed in the Thor movie.
> 
> Have you even seen the other movies like The Incredible Hulk, Thor, Iron Man, Captain America: The First Avenger.



We're not speaking about those films; we're speaking about the Avengers


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## masamune1 (Sep 9, 2012)

You mean the guy who was bullying Loki throughout the movie?

Because he wasn't the same species as the rest. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



And I've heard rumours that it might have been the Red Skull.


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## Vault (Sep 9, 2012)

Lol TDKR was very pedestrian. Avengers all the way.


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## staticbeast (Sep 9, 2012)

Bart said:


> The credits with Thanos
> 
> 
> 
> We're not speaking about those films; we're speaking about the Avengers




They were already developed, The Avengers was about the forming a team.

The Avengers is so much better then The Dark Knight Rises.


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## GaaraoftheDesert1 (Sep 9, 2012)

Neither... I wish the worst for Marvel and DC, and I hope Whedon and Nolan will go fuck themselves. Also I hope that the studios will give money to the real filmakers for once... and will stop investing money to these retarded comic book flicks.


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## James Bond (Sep 9, 2012)

How can we argue with this,

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SrNZprL8QE[/YOUTUBE]


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## Bart (Sep 9, 2012)

staticbeast said:


> They were already developed, The Avengers was about the forming a team.
> 
> The Avengers is so much better then The Dark Knight Rises.



Did I say anything about them not being developed? Nope.

What I said was about Loki's army.


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## Vault (Sep 9, 2012)

GaaraoftheDesert1 said:


> Neither... I wish the worst for Marvel and DC, and I hope Whedon and Nolan will go fuck themselves. Also I hope that the studios will give money to the real filmakers for once... and will stop investing money to these retarded comic book flicks.



You try too hard.


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## staticbeast (Sep 9, 2012)

The Avengers>>>>>>>The Dark Knight Rises.

DC comics will never have a DC Cinematic Universe.


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## Huey Freeman (Sep 9, 2012)

There was an Avengers movie? .......     Oh you mean Iron Man III ?


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## Tempproxy (Sep 9, 2012)

Let's just put it like this, I just attempted my second viewing of avengers and a good deal of that time was spent fast forwarding the movie. Avengers is boring but has the wow this is awesome scenes.


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## GaaraoftheDesert1 (Sep 9, 2012)

I dont try anything.. It came out naturally and honestly.

Naruto = Superhero Flicks
One Piece = Films by real filmakers. (Lynch, PTA, Kubrick etc)


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## staticbeast (Sep 9, 2012)

Tempproxy said:


> Let's just put it like this, I just attempted my second viewing of avengers and a good deal of that time was spent fast forwarding the movie. Avengers is boring but has the wow this is awesome scenes.



The Avengers is far better and it was not a lackluster like The Dark Knight Rises was.


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## Gabe (Sep 9, 2012)

liked both went to see both multiple times at the theaters but i like the dark knight rise more.


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## Tempproxy (Sep 9, 2012)

staticbeast said:


> The Avengers>>>>>>>The Dark Knight Rises.
> 
> DC comics will never have a DC Cinematic Universe.



MOS will be the icebreaker, watch this spot come June 2013.


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## Huey Freeman (Sep 9, 2012)

Let me correct you there that is mainstream super hero flicks. Any hipster that says Joss Whedon change the game of super hero movies is a fucking idiot.


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## GaaraoftheDesert1 (Sep 9, 2012)

Whedon's directing skills are Michael Bay level, he relied on his script completely.


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## Tempproxy (Sep 9, 2012)

staticbeast said:


> The Avengers is far better and it was not a lackluster like The Dark Knight Rises was.



The only thing that is better is the action but then again Transformers has better action as well.


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## Alicia (Sep 9, 2012)

*Warning, major spoilers from TDKR*


*Spoiler*: _TDKR_ 



My biggest disappointment was the anti-climatic end, when mrs. Tate's was revealed to be Ra's Al Guhl's daughter and actually the big bad of the movie. It really broke Bane's role as final villain and his "death/defeat" was the most anti-climatic thing in the entire movie (he got shot in the face by the batpod? srsly, Nolan?). The ending was clich? (Batman supposedly dies, but secretly lives on, dating catwoman. Oh and Robin takes up Batman's cloak) and I expected better from Nolan. The movie unfolded so well up until the end, I don't understand why they made such a crappy ending. 





*Spoiler*: _Avengers_ 



When watching this movie, I felt like a little boy again, looking up to my fav superheroes. The movie is well directed (apart from some cheesy lines) but the story was too predictable (some scenes weren't even necessary IMO, like the Stuttgart attack). This movie is action-packed, though, (as opposed to TDKR, this movie kicks off immediately with the devastation of S.H.I.E.L.D. HQ) and isn't as deep as TDKR. It's Marvel propaganda at it's fullest and tbh it works wonderfully.


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## staticbeast (Sep 9, 2012)

Atleast the Marvel Cinematic Universe has been made.

Timeline.

Iron Man
Incredible Hulk
Iron Man 2
Thor
Captain America: The First Avenger
The Avengers


The Dark Knight Rises does not take place in a huge universe.


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## Linkdarkside (Sep 9, 2012)

GaaraoftheDesert1 said:


> Neither... I wish the worst for Marvel and DC, and I hope Whedon and Nolan will go fuck themselves. Also I hope that the studios will give money to the real filmakers for once... and will stop investing money to these retarded comic book flicks.


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## Bender (Sep 9, 2012)

A tie for me.


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## Alicia (Sep 9, 2012)

staticbeast said:


> Atleast the Marvel Cinematic Universe has been made.
> 
> Timeline.
> 
> ...



Doesn't cap come first? He's the first Avenger because he used to live in the 1940's.

Marvel Studios is huge. They have asked several directors each with their own cast to do Marvel movies respectively. But no one asked Nolan to do these Batman movies and no one's funding them either. You can't expect a single director to create an entire universe that spans over 6 movies (alright, excluding George Lucas, but he took 20 years before making the prequels).


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## GaaraoftheDesert1 (Sep 9, 2012)

Well you obviously have no idea about what directing is.
Michael Bay blows up a dozen of cars and a street and fills the picture with CGI. Same goes for Whedon.


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## staticbeast (Sep 9, 2012)

GaaraoftheDesert1 said:


> Whedon's directing skills are Michael Bay level, he relied on his script completely.



The Avengers is a really good movie its nothing like Michael Bays Transformers.


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## GaaraoftheDesert1 (Sep 9, 2012)

If you want to talk about directing we can talk directing if you want to talk about screenwriting we can talk screenwriting.


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## Alicia (Sep 9, 2012)

Nolan creates that charming film grain by using his IMAX cameras. Something I don't see often in other movies nowadays.


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## Ice Cream (Sep 9, 2012)

staticbeast said:


> Between these two movies The Avengers is so much cooler, it's apart of the Marvel Cinematic Universe and it has a heavy use of science fiction & fantasy, The Avengers has a story that is way better then The Dark Knight Rises.
> 
> What ruins The Dark Knight Rises is that it's too realistic staying grounded into reality and staying away from science fiction & fantasy elements, the story was very bland and Bane was stupid. Christopher Nolan made his trilogy too realistic taking all the fun out of it.



I would have to go with the Avengers as well because it doesn't take itself too seriously.

TDKR however was marketed to be nolan's "epic conclusion" and his speech at the mtv movie awards made it seem that he expected nothing less than perfection for the final movie.

It was good film overall but I couldn't believe how many scenes occurred that required suspense in disbelief. Which is disappointing because TDKR could have been that great ending to a trilogy that is rare to see but it was held back by those noticeable flaws.


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## staticbeast (Sep 9, 2012)

GaaraoftheDesert1 said:


> If you want to talk about directing we can talk directing if you want to talk about screenwriting we can talk screenwriting.



Whats so bad about The Avengers?.


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## Alicia (Sep 9, 2012)

Ice Cream said:


> TDKR however was marketed to be nolan's "epic conclusion" and his speech at the mtv movie awards made it seem that he expected nothing less than perfection for the final movie.
> 
> It was good film overall but I couldn't believe how many scenes occurred that required suspense in disbelief. Which is disappointing because TDKR could have been that great ending to a trilogy that is rare to see but it was held back by those noticeable flaws.



Exactly. Too much suspense was wasted because it eventually disappointed us. It didn't meet our expectations.


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## GaaraoftheDesert1 (Sep 9, 2012)

There is nothing bad but there is nothing really good or impressive neither.

The thing is I dont see how the avengers are superior to iron man, anyway... the dark knight had a good atmosphaire , some good performances by the old guys and badass zimmer's music. Not that it was worth any of the hype neither.


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## staticbeast (Sep 9, 2012)

The Avengers is called the best comic book movie ever made. The Dark Knight can never rival Avengers


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## Rukia (Sep 9, 2012)

Dredd 3D  .


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## Huey Freeman (Sep 9, 2012)

Well its been a while since a dupe had worked up this section.


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## Velocity (Sep 9, 2012)

Bart said:


> Comparing The Dark Knight Rises to the Avengers _overall_ is a bit like comparing the the works of Shakespeare to someone posting fanfiction on Naruto Forums if I'm being brutally honest with you there; just wait until _Man of Steel_ comes out.



That is really a terrible point of view to take and I shouldn't even need to explain why. All I will say is that Nolan _wishes_ he could write scripts and develop characters as well as Whedon can.


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## Rukia (Sep 9, 2012)

Idiotic analogy from Bart.  Doesn't surprise me at all.


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## Huey Freeman (Sep 9, 2012)

Velocity said:


> That is really a terrible point of view to take and I shouldn't even need to explain why. All I will say is that Nolan _wishes_ he could write scripts and develop characters as well as Whedon can.



Not disagreeing with Nolan writing but what Character development?


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## GaaraoftheDesert1 (Sep 9, 2012)

Nolan's batman = Work of Shakespeare


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## Huey Freeman (Sep 9, 2012)

GaaraoftheDesert1 said:


> Nolan's batman = Work of Shakespeare



Bane sound like he was talking in old English .


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## Distance (Sep 9, 2012)

Now that it's been a number of weeks since these movies came out, I'm starting to wonder what all the fuss was all about.


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## GaaraoftheDesert1 (Sep 9, 2012)

Distance said:


> Now that it's been a number of weeks since these movies came out, I'm starting to wonder what all the fuss was all about.



Finally an intelligent post in this thread ..


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## Stunna (Sep 9, 2012)

pfffffffffffft


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## Detective (Sep 9, 2012)

Personally, I liked DKR better than the Avengers. They were on opposite ends of the spectrum in the super hero genre, one more grounded(DKR) than the other which was more for lack of  a better term, light-hearted(Avengers). Both were good, and had their faults, but I felt more connected to the intensity of Nolan's final Batman film.

Doesn't really matter in the long run though, because Man of Steel when it's released, is going to babyshake and curbstomp them both.

The King Returns in 2013. And his name is not Aragorn.

Come at me, Bros/Hos.


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## Huey Freeman (Sep 9, 2012)

Detective said:


> Personally, I liked DKR better than the Avengers. They were on opposite ends of the spectrum in the super hero genre, one more grounded(DKR) than the other which was more for lack of  a better term, light-hearted(Avengers). Both were good, and had their faults, but I felt more connected to the intensity of Nolan's final Batman film.
> 
> Doesn't really matter in the long run though, because Man of Steel when it's released, is going to babyshake and curbstomp them both.
> 
> ...



Until Hellboy 3 or whenever they decide to remake Spawn/Constantine .


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## MartialHorror (Sep 9, 2012)

I liked both, but for me it's "The Avengers".


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## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 10, 2012)

For me it's Avengers, but that's less based on quality and more based on what I'm looking for in a superhero movie.


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## Hatifnatten (Sep 10, 2012)

Dark Knight Rises. No debates here.

Avengers is for 11 year olds.


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## Dylan20 (Sep 10, 2012)

Hatifnatten said:


> Dark Knight Rises. No debates here.
> 
> Avengers is for 11 year olds.



Correction The avengers is more family friendly.

I liked TA more than TDR. To me TDR was hyped to much, Don't get me wrong i enjoyed the frick out of it.


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## GaaraoftheDesert1 (Sep 10, 2012)

The Avengers are for 11 year olds and the dark knight is for 14 year olds ...


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## The World (Sep 10, 2012)

The Avengers was overhyped


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## Amuro (Sep 10, 2012)

Amazing Spiderman


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## Ennoea (Sep 10, 2012)

Both films were overhyped to kingdom come and weren't worth the hype. DKR was the conclusion of a trilogy so people I imagine would be more invested in this film but god it was a mess. Tbh I didn't care for either of them but I enjoyed the second half of Avengers alot, though the script still needed some work. And Whedon can direct action, much better than Nolan.


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## James Bond (Sep 10, 2012)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXTMNGvKf0w[/YOUTUBE]

This is better than both


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## Kagutsuchi (Sep 10, 2012)

Avengers hands down. 

The way Bane died brought the film down.


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## Velocity (Sep 10, 2012)

Danger Doom said:


> Not disagreeing with Nolan writing but what Character development?



Black Widow and Iron Man had some amazing development as characters - Iron Man, especially. In Avengers, though, it was mostly the development of the relationships between the characters that I'm referring to. The way the relationship between Cap and Iron Man was developed was pretty well done.

The only decent character development in The Dark Knight Rises was Catwoman. Bane was ultimately wasted potential (and wasted talent), what'sherface's development  was just out of the blue with no build up at all and Batman was basically getting in the way of better characters having more screentime. I felt no empathy for him at all even with everything he went through.


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## choco bao bao (Sep 10, 2012)

The World said:


> The Avengers was overhyped


This. Felt pretty disappointed by it.

Though TDKR made me laugh at how clich?d and ludicrous some lines and scenes were.


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## Huey Freeman (Sep 10, 2012)

Velocity said:


> Black Widow and Iron Man had some amazing development as characters - Iron Man, especially. In Avengers, though, it was mostly the development of the relationships between the characters that I'm referring to. The way the relationship between Cap and Iron Man was developed was pretty well done.



Iron Man was Iron Man. I would like you to show me something different from what we have seen in his 2 solo movies.  Robert could do that shit in his sleep. All Scarlett was doing was the typical tough eye candy routine. 

The tension between Cap and Iron Man lasted what one 1 minute scene hardly anything to shake a tail feather at.


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## Ennoea (Sep 10, 2012)

You could say that Ironman becomes a true hero in Avengers, though where they can go with his character from here I do wonder.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 10, 2012)

Velocity said:


> Black Widow and Iron Man had some amazing development as characters - Iron Man, especially. In Avengers, though, it was mostly the development of the relationships between the characters that I'm referring to. The way the relationship between Cap and Iron Man was developed was pretty well done.



BW was well played, but her development was a bit weak. It was basically just that she wanted to be that public front line hero and make up for her past.

Tony, i'd say his development was summed up by one line, "We're not soldiers!" and his unspoken mental correction (since he was talking to Cap, and 4/6 Avengers are in fact soldiers) "I'm not a soldier."

I thought him realizing that this was very much a war, and that in war there isn't always a way out, was definitely development.

IMO, if it wasn't for coulson, Tony wouldn't have taken the bomb up the way he did. He'd be too busy figuring a way out.



> The only decent character development in The Dark Knight Rises was Catwoman. Bane was ultimately wasted potential (and wasted talent), what'sherface's development  was just out of the blue with no build up at all and Batman was basically getting in the way of better characters having more screentime. I felt no empathy for him at all even with everything he went through.



Yeah, Bane was awesome, but his ending was very subpar imo. And the twist that led to him being sidelined was not at all worth it.


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## mcdave (Sep 10, 2012)

Reasons Avengers was better then TDKr:

*Spoiler*: __


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## Whimsy (Sep 10, 2012)

Dark Knight Rises really suffered from shitty action scenes.


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## staticbeast (Sep 10, 2012)

Face it people what ruined the nolan trilogy was how realistic it was made.

That trilogy is grounded in to reality too much.


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## Narcissus (Sep 10, 2012)

Well it's painfully obvious the OP started this thread with the intentions of baiting people into a shitstorm.

The Avengers for me. It had great action, funny dialogue, and was thoroughly entertaining. The interactions between the characters was a blast to watch.

While I liked The Dark Knight Rises well enough, it was slow in places, the fight between Batman and Bane wasn't that great, and Bane's death was anticlimactic. The "twist" that Bane wasn't the child was obvious too.


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## synthax (Sep 10, 2012)

I prefer  The Dark Knight Rises.I rewatched the Avengers recently and realized just  how bad Scarlett Johansson perfomance was,to anyone who plans to rewatch the movie pay close attention to her .Also I realize alot of people not neccessarily here are prasing Whedon for succesfully bringing together multiple superheroes on the big screen which begs the question how is that any different that bring together an A list cast having them work together and give each of them  meaningful screentime .
TDKR to me had a better villain,music,story and acting.I think Hiddlestone put in a good performance as Loki but I thought Whedon just made him seem like a joke ,almost everyone in the show got the upperhand on him.


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## Velocity (Sep 10, 2012)

staticbeast said:


> Face it people what ruined the nolan trilogy was how realistic it was made.
> 
> That trilogy is grounded in to reality too much.



It wasn't actually that realism that ruined the films. If anything, it was Batman himself. I never once felt anything for the guy in all three films. I disliked the gravelly accent he put on - and there's a moment in The Dark Knight Rises where he still uses it _when nobody is around to hear him_ - and I cared more about the villains than I did him.

I watched Batman Begins and was more interested in R'as than I was Bruce. When it came to The Dark Knight, Harvey Dent and The Joker were infinitely more interesting than Batman was. In The Dark Knight Rises, it was all about Bane and Catwoman. I thought the whole point of these films were to give us a protagonist we could get behind, we could empathise with. So why was he always upstaged by the supporting cast?



synthax said:


> I think Hiddlestone put in a good performance as Loki but I thought Whedon just made him seem like a joke ,almost everyone in the show got the upperhand on him.



I think that was the point. Loki getting out of his depth seems to be a recurring theme - and he can't seem to stop himself digging a bigger hole each time.


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## Narcissus (Sep 10, 2012)

Oh lord, Batman's voice. 

When he was shouting at Bane towards the end of the film to find out who had the detonator I was laughing so hard. "YOU'D NEVER GIVE IT TO AN ORDINARY CITIZEN! WHERE IS IT!!!!"


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## mcdave (Sep 10, 2012)

synthax said:


> I rewatched the Avengers recently and realized just  how bad Scarlett Johansson perfomance was,to anyone who plans to rewatch the movie pay close attention to her .



I payed close attention to her and honestly think her performance was quite enjoyable 

Btw anyone who complains about Christian Bales Bat voice should hear into a sequence of the german Bane dub its rly anotherleague.
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1GGIN3jXno[/YOUTUBE]


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## Bart (Sep 10, 2012)

Whimsy said:


> Dark Knight Rises really suffered from shitty action scenes.



We can't have explosions in every scene 

Plus the action between Bane and Batman is explained and acceptable; unlike a few action/fight scenes in the Avengers ;S


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## synthax (Sep 10, 2012)

Velocity said:


> I think that was the point. Loki getting out of his depth seems to be a recurring theme - and he can't seem to stop himself digging a bigger hole each time.



Loki is a being of genius level intellect and extremely cunning,in the Avengers his plan was a disappointment from the beginning he wanted to disrupt the Avengers from within yet he does not use mind control on their leader Nick Fury,his actions through out the movie did more to bring them together than anything else.


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## Ennoea (Sep 10, 2012)

I loved how when someone wears Hockey Pads they're an annoyance but if they have tits then Bruce isn't above begging them for help, even though that person has screwed them over. Great development there.


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## Grape (Sep 10, 2012)

Ennoea said:


> I loved how when someone wears Hockey Pads they're an annoyance but if they have tits then Bruce isn't above begging them for help, even though that person has screwed them over. Great development there.




I think you're missing the point...




Ennoea said:


> *they have tits*


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## Huey Freeman (Sep 10, 2012)

Ennoea said:


> I loved how when someone wears Hockey Pads they're an annoyance but if they have tits then Bruce isn't above begging them for help, even though that person has screwed them over. Great development there.



Shoot nuke into mothership all invaders shut down- convenience #1

Hulk dropping in the middle of no where immediately shows when he is needed- convenience # 2

Superhuman Alien invaders getting taken out by a woman that is doing flips and stabbing them with knives or someone shooting arrows at them- convenience #3

Hey I am the Hulk even though like 20 minutes ago I was angry and I wanted to kill you Thor and Black Widow I suddenly have a change of heart and want to be your friends. - Convenience #4

I am the mighty Loki and I can stab and wound the mighty Thor but I am afraid of some creature called the Hulk who dispatches me in like 3 seconds taking away all badassery that I had developed in the movie just like what happened to Bane.

I am the Mighty Loki and I am the trickster however I can still be outwitted by a lesser being such as the Black Widow or some guy carrying a strange gun.


I can do this shit all day.


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## Huey Freeman (Sep 10, 2012)

We are an invading army but somehow 6 people are able to contain us within 6 blocks- Convenience # 5


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## Ennoea (Sep 10, 2012)

Do what shit, Avengers isn't sold to muppets on its "realism".


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## Federer (Sep 10, 2012)

I didn't fap when I watched TDKR, I did fap when I saw the Avengers.

Obvious choice is obvious, TDKR had a poor ending.


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## Vault (Sep 10, 2012)

> Hey I am the Hulk even though like 20 minutes ago I was angry and I wanted to kill you Thor and Black Widow I suddenly have a change of heart and want to be your friends. - Convenience #4


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## Huey Freeman (Sep 10, 2012)

Ennoea said:


> Do what shit, Avengers isn't sold to muppets on its "realism".



That helps your point how? Oh I get it you realize how contradicting your argument is because any stupid shit you throw out from TDKR , you can throw the same type of shit out from the Avengers.


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## synthax (Sep 10, 2012)

I having a hard time understanding why they even invaded with such a small army,the Avengers were not even needed.This is why I dislike most alien invasion movies the aliens are always incompetent.


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## Perverted King (Sep 10, 2012)

The Avengers was a much superior film in my opinion. Nolan is God but Josh Whedon took on the impossible and made it look like gold.


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## Huey Freeman (Sep 10, 2012)

Vault said:


>



Would you care to explain how Hulk was suddenly in control when Banner mention it just at the end? Yep development there.


Dont give me shit Loki was manipulating Hulk because if he could manipulate the Hulk and got outsmarted by Black widow while doing that is just .


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## Bart (Sep 10, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Yeah, Bane was awesome, but his ending was very subpar imo. And the twist that led to him being sidelined was not at all worth it.



He was more than awesome ;3

His ending wasn't that subpar, just unexpected and we all know he wouldn't have been killed by Batman in any case, and I'd like to see many others suggest how he should have been taken out and it's relevance to the story.

He wasn't sidelined though; similar as to how Vader still wasn't even though the Emperor was the main villain.



Danger Doom said:


> Would you care to explain how Hulk was suddenly in control when Banner mention it just at the end? Yep development there.
> 
> Dont give me shit Loki was manipulating Hulk because if he could manipulate the Hulk and got outsmarted by Black widow while doing that is just .



And a knock to the head being able to thwart Loki's mind control


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## Perverted King (Sep 10, 2012)

I will add that both movies had a lot of mistakes and plotholes. In the end both were more about hype than quality.


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## Ennoea (Sep 10, 2012)

> That helps your point how? Oh I get it you realize how contradicting your argument is because any stupid shit you throw out from TDKR , you can throw the same type of shit out the Avengers.



Lol. Both films are a blip on my film watching this year, carry on your rage though, it's amusing to see you so butthurt about the success of Avengers.


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## Huey Freeman (Sep 10, 2012)

Exactly both were mostly hype but in KT  one has to be better and it has to be TDKR.


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## Huey Freeman (Sep 10, 2012)

Ennoea said:


> Lol. *Both films are a blip on my film watching this year*, carry on your rage though, it's amusing to see you so *butthurt* about the success of Avengers.



>Comes in immediately attacks the film he hates with a passion .
>Claims any member who disagree is butthurt


 Ennoea asinine logic for you folks .


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## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 10, 2012)

Danger Doom said:


> Shoot nuke into mothership all invaders shut down- convenience #1



A common trope, don't see how that's bad. It's not like there was any evidence to the contrary. I guess whedon could have thrown in a line saying they were all networked or whatever, but I'm guessing he thought it wasn't worth it, and assumed (for the most part, correctly) that people would just go with it.



> Hulk dropping in the middle of no where immediately shows when he is needed- convenience # 2



Dropping in the middle of nowhere is lucky, or, knowing the nature of his trap/cargo and/or that the helicarrier was crashing, one could assume that Fury made it a point not to have the carrier fly over heavily populated areas.

Where did the hulk fall? Him showing up as needed is only a convenience if you know where he landed. There was an unspecified amount of time between Hulk's fall (early on in the scene) and his next appearance, so if he landed a few hours from NY it still works.



> Superhuman Alien invaders getting taken out by a woman that is doing flips and stabbing them with knives or someone shooting arrows at them- convenience #3



Was there a scene that showed the alien invaders shrugging off what would be lethal arrows / knife wounds / bullets? 



> Hey I am the Hulk even though like 20 minutes ago I was angry and I wanted to kill you Thor and Black Widow I suddenly have a change of heart and want to be your friends. - Convenience #4



Incredible Hulk establishes that Banner is able to "point" the Hulk, and by avengers its implied that Banner has even more control over the hulk. Don't see how he couldn't point it at the aliens just like he pointed it at abomination.

The only reason Hulk went after Thor and Widows to begin with is because of his state of mind right before the transformation and the nature of the transformation itself (trauma as opposed to by his own will).



> I am the mighty Loki and I can stab and wound the mighty Thor but I am afraid of some creature called the Hulk who dispatches me in like 3 seconds taking away all badassery that I had developed in the movie just like what happened to Bane.



Hulk is stronger than Thor?

Personally, I don't think it took away his badassery, because he was never setup as a physical threat. If Hulk had outsmarted him I'd agree with you.

Bane on the other hand went from a physically imposing mastermind to a physically imposing henchman / bodyguard. 



> I am the Mighty Loki and I am the trickster however I can still be outwitted by a lesser being such as the Black Widow or some guy carrying a strange gun.



So because he's the trickster he can never be tricked? Bane's defining characteristic was his physicality, so should he not be defeated by Batman because that would undermine that?



Bart said:


> His ending wasn't that subpar, just unexpected and we all know he wouldn't have been killed by Batman in any case, and I'd like to see many others suggest how he should have been taken out and it's relevance to the story.
> 
> He wasn't sidelined though; similar as to how Vader still wasn't even though the Emperor was the main villain.



The emperor was the main villain, but its not like Vader's character arc ended once that was revealed, since there was the conflict between himself and luke and whether or not he would turn against the emperor. With Bane, where did his character go (aside from getting defeated and then dying) once Talia was revealed? 

Personally, I would have much preferred Bane to remain the main antagonist. Had Talia taken more of a backseat role, or had Bane had an agenda of his own that would come in conflict with what Talia wanted, would be better imo.

I would even be okay with Talia not being in there at all. Her reveal was a good twist, but other than that she was very uninteresting.


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## Ennoea (Sep 10, 2012)

> >Comes in immediately attacks the film he hates with a passion .
> >Claims any member who disagree is butthurt



Did I attack the film, where please. No you are butthurt, you have been since Avengers made money. But carry on, you keep making yourself look more retarded each time. Talk about not being able to take someone not liking Batman, I worry for you in real life I really do.


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## Huey Freeman (Sep 10, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> A common trope, don't see how that's bad. It's not like there was any evidence to the contrary. I guess whedon could have thrown in a line saying they were all networked or whatever, but I'm guessing he thought it wasn't worth it, and assumed (for the most part, correctly) that people would just go with it.


No mention of what the army was or who they were. It was bad development. All we knew is Loki had an Army. 



> Dropping in the middle of nowhere is lucky, or, knowing the nature of his trap/cargo and/or that the helicarrier was crashing, one could assume that Fury made it a point not to have the carrier fly over heavily populated areas.
> 
> Where did the hulk fall? Him showing up as needed is only a convenience if you know where he landed. There was an unspecified amount of time between Hulk's fall (early on in the scene) and his next appearance, so if he landed a few hours from NY it still works.



He was certainly not within city limits seeing it took a while for Black widow and hawkeye to fly there. He got there by a scooter btw. 




> Was there a scene that showed the alien invaders shrugging off what would be lethal arrows / knife wounds / bullets?


When Widow hijack the transport she broke the thing neck and stabbed one in the neck. 

Hawk eye also had a zoom in shot of him taking out one on a transport.



> Incredible Hulk establishes that Banner is able to "point" the Hulk, and by avengers its implied that Banner has even more control over the hulk. Don't see how he couldn't point it at the aliens just like he pointed it at abomination


.

He didnt point anything at anyone. He willingly transformed. That was the point of the scene.



> The only reason Hulk went after Thor and Widows to begin with is because of his state of mind right before the transformation and the nature of the transformation itself (trauma as opposed to by his own will).



See above .




> Personally, I don't think it took away his badassery, because he was never setup as a physical threat. If Hulk had outsmarted him I'd agree with you.
> 
> Bane on the other hand went from a physically imposing mastermind to a physically imposing henchman / bodyguard.



Yes it did, he was the main villain. The guy sent to get the job done. He failed horribly. Not even putting up a fight. Despite having the edge to begin with. 



> So because he's the trickster he can never be tricked? Bane's defining characteristic was his physicality, so should he not be defeated by Batman because that would undermine that?



Yeah, this is like saying Darkseid was outsmarted by the likes of Beast boy through reverse psychology .


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## Huey Freeman (Sep 10, 2012)

Ennoea said:


> Did I attack the film, where please. No you are butthurt, you have been since Avengers made money. But carry on, you keep making yourself look more retarded each time. Talk about not being able to take someone not liking Batman, I worry for you in real life I really do.




> Claims he is not butt hurt.

>Insults another member and try the whole real life insult.





Oh Ennoea keep it up you might make a solid point .


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## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 10, 2012)

Danger Doom said:


> No mention of what the army was or who they were. It was bad development. All we knew is Loki had an Army.



They were an alien race called the chitauri, a warrior race under the command of Thanos.

But really, not every film has to have every villain explicitly defined. Sometimes henchmen are just henchmen. Like that russian mob boss in TDK, do we really need to know anything more on him other than the fact that he's a mob boss for him to serve his purpose in the story? 



> He was certainly not within city limits seeing it took a while for Black widow and hawkeye to fly there. He got there by a scooter btw.



When we saw him driving through a heavily damaged city he was on a scooter (perhaps to avoid abandoned cars/ debris?) . If someone from far away visits you unannounced via a taxi, do you not assume they had some other form of transportation along the way?



> When Widow hijack the transport she broke the thing neck and stabbed one in the neck.
> 
> Hawk eye also had a zoom in shot of him taking out one on a transport.



Right, but where was it shown that they couldn't be killed by small arms fire / arrows? 

I don't remember them being explicitly mentioned as superhuman, so I didn't have any issue with them going down from arrows or gunfire.



> He didnt point anything at anyone. He willingly transformed. That was the point of the scene.



By point, I mean he can designate enemies / allies before willingly transforming. He did this in Incredible Hulk, which is why Hulk only attacked Abomination and protected Betty.

So my point is that he could do the same thing in NY, which is why the Hulk would only want to destroy the aliens/Loki.

EDIT:He did not do this on the helicarrier, due to the staff's effect on his mind and the sudden nature of the transformation (not of his own will)



> Yes it did, he was the main villain. The guy sent to get the job done. He failed horribly. Not even putting up a fight. Despite having the edge to begin with.



Getting the good guys to fight each other , almost destroying the helicarrier, wrecking tons of New York, killing tons of people, and forcing the US Government to launch a nuclear attack on one of it's major cities = putting up a fight.

Ra's Al Ghul was the main villain, had a job to do, and failed horribly, still doesn't make him any less of a character.



> Yeah, this is like saying Darkseid was outsmarted by the likes of Beast boy through reverse psychology .



You underestimate BW's own skill with cunning and deception. I suppose there's the argument to be made that this wasn't explicitly established, but Thor and Avengers both made it very clear that these beings aren't infallible. So just because Loki is the god of mischief does not mean he is totally untrickable.

And, to Loki's credit, his plan to unleash the hulk was still successful, even with the good guys knowing of it beforehand.


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## Perverted King (Sep 10, 2012)

One thing I need to know. When Odin sent Thor to earth did he went on Odin sleep? You don't want to leave poor Asgard defenseless now.

Also Bane should technically be in his late 50s/early 60s according to the Dark Knight Rises story. 

So many damn plot holes.


----------



## Whimsy (Sep 10, 2012)

Ennoea said:


> I loved how when someone wears Hockey Pads they're an annoyance but if they have tits then Bruce isn't above begging them for help, even though that person has screwed them over. Great development there.



To be fair, Bruce didn't get any for a really long time. Understandable development.


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## GaaraoftheDesert1 (Sep 10, 2012)

Nolan is bettr thn shakespear mkayyyy....


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## Wan (Sep 10, 2012)

My opinion:

The Avengers took me by surprise, really.  I had enjoyed the Marvel movies leading up to it, had faith that Joss Whedon could write a really good screenplay for the movie (can't stop the signal!) so I avoided reading any reviews before going in so I could get an a view of the film unpolluted by anything else.  Went to see it at the midnight release.  And it _blew me away._  In my opinion, for the film that it tries to be, The Avengers is flawless.  Sure, it takes a little bit to find its legs in the beginning, but after that it's just nonstop fun.  Great action sequences, fun dialog and banter, A-game performances from virtually the entire cast, and even some nice introspective character moments and interactions.

The Dark Knight Rises was a great film overall.  Again, I avoided reviews and saw it at the midnight premiere as well. I was expecting it to be great but not _perfect,_ since it would not be able to escape comparison to its near-perfect predecessor and it sadly lacked its predecessor's ace in the hole (the late Heath Ledger's performance as Joker.  Even then TDKR has some clear flaws in the story and writing if you stop to think about it (and TDKR, like Nolan's other Batman films, is a film that feels open to stopping and thinking about it).   There were great parts -- Anne Hathaway was surprisingly good as Selina Kyle, and Tom Hardy had a memorable performance as Bane even though he really didn't scratch Ledger's Joker.  I liked the relationship and emotion between Alfred and Bruce. I really enjoyed TDKR but I was not blown away.

So Marvel's The Avengers is the better movie IMO.


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## Vault (Sep 10, 2012)

Huey enjoy your plot hole infested TDKR 

Dont get me started on Pedo Henchman Bane :rofl


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## Narcissus (Sep 10, 2012)

It is obvious TDKR fans in general are pretty bitter about The Avengers winning the battle, since so many of them were claiming and/or hoping DK would win. I can imagine the bragging if it had won.

Which is exactly why I know this thread was made just to bait.


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## Vault (Sep 10, 2012)

Oh man i so want to pull quotes of Bart and Huey claiming that it would make more money and be overall the better film


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## Whimsy (Sep 10, 2012)

I liked TDKR, but yeah it was extremely plot hole filled. It's frankly hilarious that people like Bart take it oh so seriously whilst ridiculing the Avengers as being childish. It's a film about a bloke putting on a gravelly voice and becoming the saviour of his city by flying a nuke into the sea with a super-helicopter. 

Whilst dressed as a bat.


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## Huey Freeman (Sep 10, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> They were an alien race called the chitauri, a warrior race under the command of Thanos.
> 
> But really, not every film has to have every villain explicitly defined. Sometimes henchmen are just henchmen. Like that russian mob boss in TDK, do we really need to know anything more on him other than the fact that he's a mob boss for him to serve his purpose in the story?


Except these were not just henchmen, these guys were suppose to be the muscle behind Loki. They should have been able to put up a fight and had some scenes just for them before the final battle. Secondly they didnt even had higher ranking officers. Like a captain or something.



> When we saw him driving through a heavily damaged city he was on a scooter (perhaps to avoid abandoned cars/ debris?) . If someone from far away visits you unannounced via a taxi, do you not assume they had some other form of transportation along the way?



If he had hulked out and jumped there I would have been more satisfied this was as bad as TDKR time skip of 2 months to 2 weeks to 2 days. Or Bruce escape and already back in Gotham the following scene.





> Right, but where was it shown that they couldn't be killed by small arms fire / arrows?
> 
> I don't remember them being explicitly mentioned as superhuman, so I didn't have any issue with them going down from arrows or gunfire.



These guys toss Capt like a rag doll in the bank and were jumping 50 feet in the air onto buildings safe bet is they were super human. 





> By point, I mean he can designate enemies / allies before transforming. He did this in Incredible Hulk, which is why Hulk only attacked Abomination and protected Betty.
> 
> So my point is that he could do the same thing in NY, which is why the Hulk would only want to destroy the aliens/Loki.


 Point taken



> Getting the good guys to fight each other , almost destroying the helicarrier, wrecking tons of New York, killing tons of people, and forcing the US Government to launch a nuclear attack on one of it's major cities = putting up a fight.


That was not a fight considering he was shut down in the helicarrier. The army didnt even slowed them much. 



> Ra's Al Ghul was the main villain, had a job to do, and failed horribly, still doesn't make him any less of a character.



He had a final battle though , he didnt went out as a comedic relief like Loki or Bane .




> You underestimate BW's own skill with cunning and deception. I suppose there's the argument to be made that this wasn't explicitly established, but Thor and Avengers both made it very clear that these beings aren't infallible. So just because Loki is the god of mischief does not mean he is totally untrickable.



There is nothing that put Black Widow in Loki League  . Even in the movie he had outsmarted everyone and to him slip that once was crap. He can be tricked but not by the likes of Black Widow




> And, to Loki's credit, his plan to unleash the hulk was still successful, even with the good guys knowing of it beforehand.



It was still momentary though . It would be leagues better if he had mind control Hulk instead of Hawkeye for most of the film.


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## Ennoea (Sep 10, 2012)

Really bitter.


----------



## synthax (Sep 10, 2012)

Narcissus said:


> It is obvious TDKR fans in general are pretty bitter about The Avengers winning the battle, since so many of them were claiming and/or hoping DK would win. I can imagine the bragging if it had won.
> 
> Which is exactly why I know this thread was made just to bait.



How has the Avengers won?I can show a list of polls from various sites showing that they preferred TDKR to the Avengers.


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## Huey Freeman (Sep 10, 2012)

Vault said:


> Huey enjoy your plot hole infested TDKR
> 
> Dont get me started on Pedo Henchman Bane :rofl





Vault said:


> Oh man i so want to pull quotes of Bart and Huey claiming that it would make more money and be overall the better film



You see the difference is I actually make fun of those plotholes if you would learn to read and stop reading like this  : yada yada yada Huey says something bad about Avengers fanboy defence mode activated .

 No one mention it would have made more money not me at least so yeah try harder .


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## Whimsy (Sep 10, 2012)

It won by making more money.


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## Huey Freeman (Sep 10, 2012)

Ennoea said:


> Really bitter.



You still attacking me?

Man one can say you are butthurt about this .


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## Vault (Sep 10, 2012)

Danger Doom said:


> You see the difference is I actually make fun of those plotholes if you would learn to read and stop reading like this  : yada yada yada Huey says something bad about Avengers fanboy defence mode activated .
> 
> No one mention it would have made more money not me at least so yeah try harder .



You are such a hypocrite, then again you already know that


----------



## Narcissus (Sep 10, 2012)

synthax said:


> How has the Avengers won?I can show a list of polls from various sites showing that they preferred TDKR to the Avengers.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Sep 10, 2012)

Vault said:


> You are such a hypocrite, then again you already know that



Of course I am and so are you which you just conceded to in this post.


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## Vault (Sep 10, 2012)

I have had enough. Ignore list activated  This was a long way coming mate. You are an eyesore. Honestly can't stand you


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## synthax (Sep 10, 2012)

Whimsy said:


> It won by making more money.



Why is that even relevant?Since when money  determines the quality of a film.


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## Perverted King (Sep 10, 2012)

One thing I will praise Nolan is the fight scene between Batman & Bane. Sadly I can't say the same for his other fight scenes in the previous films. Nolan struggles with fight scenes.


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## Huey Freeman (Sep 10, 2012)

Perverted King said:


> One thing I will praise Nolan is the fight scene between Batman & Bane. Sadly I can't say the same for his other fight scenes in the previous films. Nolan struggles with fight scenes.



You cant praise anything about TDKR its either pro Avengers or gtfo.


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## Narcissus (Sep 10, 2012)

Batman vs the Joker in TDK was about the most anticlimactic fight in a Batman movie.


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## Ebisu's Shades (Sep 10, 2012)

Liked both but I go with Dark Knight Rises.


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## Ennoea (Sep 10, 2012)

> You cant praise anything about TDKR its either pro Avengers or gtfo.



Have you even read anyone's arguments over the past 2 years to do with Nolan or Batman? You are insufferable and pointless to debate with, welcome to my ignore list.


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## Huey Freeman (Sep 10, 2012)

Vault said:


> I have had enough. Ignore list activated  This was a long way coming mate. You are an eyesore. Honestly can't stand you





Ennoea said:


> Have you even read anyone's arguments over the past 2 years to do with Nolan or Batman? You are insufferable and pointless to debate with, welcome to my ignore list.


 The hilarious thing about this is I am the one that got called out and accuse of being butthurt.

Oh and hivemind activated.


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## Son Goku (Sep 10, 2012)

Posting in epic bread.


----------



## Perverted King (Sep 10, 2012)

Danger Doom said:


> You cant praise anything about TDKR its either pro Avengers or gtfo.



Avengers is by far a better film. The Dark Knight Rises is the worst of Nolan's trology. 

I mean Bane is in his 60s, Bruce has no "cartilage" and the injury wasn't even explained, Alfred saw Bruce depressed for eight years and never told her about Rachel choosing Harvey so he could move on, Bane hacks the stock market and Bruce is broke, Bruce asking Selina for help and then moving to London with her after she set him up to get crippled, Talia Al Ghul & Bane had the worst deaths ever, Batman survives a nuclear explosion after getting stabbed and barely being away from the blast & of course let's send every cop down to the sewers and Gordon called Blake a rookie the irony.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Sep 10, 2012)

Perverted King said:


> Avengers is by far a better film. The Dark Knight Rises is the worst of Nolan's trology.
> 
> I mean Bane is in his 60s, Bruce has no "cartilage" and the injury wasn't even explained, Alfred saw Bruce depressed for eight years and never told her about Rachel choosing Harvey so he could move on, Bane hacks the stock market and Bruce is broke, Bruce asking Selina for help and then moving to London with her after she set him up to get crippled, Talia Al Ghul & Bane had the worst deaths ever, Batman survives a nuclear explosion after getting stabbed and barely being away from the blast & of course let's send every cop down to the sewers and Gordon called Blake a rookie the irony.



The worst of the trilogy yes I agree and most of those things I cant deny. 

However to ignore all the Avengers fault and treat it like the hottest thing since slice bread.  It is not like the damn film reinvented the wheel. 

After a month of both films you see how fast the hype died out?


----------



## Wan (Sep 10, 2012)

Danger Doom said:


> After a month of both films you see how fast the hype died out?



I dunno, my university played Avengers in our basketball stadium this past weekend and there was a huge turnout.  Much cheers and applause were had.


----------



## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 10, 2012)

Danger Doom said:


> Except these were not just henchmen, these guys were suppose to be the muscle behind Loki. They should have been able to put up a fight and had some scenes just for them before the final battle. Secondly they didnt even had higher ranking officers. Like a captain or something.



What are henchmen if not the muscle behind the actual villain?

They did put up a fight, but their advantage was never in their individual skill or combat prowess, more just their numbers and tech.

True they didn't have ranking officers, but if they were some sort of hive mind (which would work with them all dropping at the end) it would make sense for them to not have officers.

I agree that a little more on the chitauri would have been nice, but it was hardly necessary. They're action scene fodder and the muscle behind loki's words / schemes, that's all they were ever intended to be.



> If he had hulked out and jumped there I would have been more satisfied this was as bad as TDKR time skip of 2 months to 2 weeks to 2 days. Or Bruce escape and already back in Gotham the following scene.



See I didn't have any issue with bruce escaping and being back in gotham so quickly. Was there an explicity defined time between his release and his arrival? I thought there was an unexplicitly defined time (a day or 2 at least) between his escape and his arrival, could be wrong though. In that case I just went with he's Bruce Wayne / Batman and world travel isn't very difficult for him.



> These guys toss Capt like a rag doll in the bank and were jumping 50 feet in the air onto buildings safe bet is they were super human.



Cap can toss people like rag dolls, can make similar jumps, and is in general considered superhuman, but his forehead will not deflect bullets or arrows.

I figured the chitauri were similar in that their muscular strength didn't necessarily mean muscular / bone durability to match. And unless we saw something that contradicted BW and Hawkeye taking them out with lethal arrow/gun shots, I don't think it's a legitimate error.



> That was not a fight considering he was shut down in the helicarrier. The army didnt even slowed them much.



Well it's not a fight, but Loki isn't that type of villain. It's never him vs. his enemies, it's him and whatever pawns/circumstances he can manipulate vs. his enemies.



> He had a final battle though , he didnt went out as a comedic relief like Loki or Bane .



Again, he isn't really the type to have that kind of final battle. He can't stand up to Hulk/Thor and probably Iron Man physically, nor is it ever indicated that he can. 

Joker is similar imo. His battle isn't whether or not Batman can take him down physically, of course he can. His battle is whether or not Boat A will blow up Boat B, or whether or not Harvey will undo all of his work putting away gotham's criminals.

For Loki, his final battle was the entire last act, not just the moment he got thrashed by the hulk.



> There is nothing that put Black Widow in Loki League  . Even in the movie he had outsmarted everyone and to him slip that once was crap. He can be tricked but not by the likes of Black Widow



I'll give you that he did slip up, and that BW could have been played up more when it came to cunning.

But, Loki being cocky as all hell is a part of his character. It's in his nature to revel in his intellectual superiority. Dropping hints is part of that.



> It was still momentary though . It would be leagues better if he had mind control Hulk instead of Hawkeye for most of the film.



That's a fair opinion, but personally I see loki as the kind of guy who doesn't do more than he needs to. He doesn't need to mind control Hulk to get him to do what he wants, and going for banner would telegraph his plan just as much if not more than "you brought the monster" did. 

But mainly, in some scenarios a scalpel is more useful than a bomb. Hulk wouldn't know how to steal the iridium without drawing tons of attention, for instance.



Perverted King said:


> One thing I will praise Nolan is the fight scene between Batman & Bane. Sadly I can't say the same for his other fight scenes in the previous films. Nolan struggles with fight scenes.



This is true. Really TDKR isn't bad at all, I'm defending Avengers but I honestly can't say objectively which I enjoyed more. I said avengers, but that's only because Avengers was probably the greatest example of translating the comics to the big screen without needing to reinterpret it from the ground up, which is something I found really refreshing. 

With TDKR, I loved it, but I'd be a liar if I said going into it I wasn't getting tired of the "realism" of nolan's bat trilogy.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Sep 10, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> What are henchmen if not the muscle behind the actual villain?
> 
> They did put up a fight, but their advantage was never in their individual skill or combat prowess, more just their numbers and tech.
> 
> ...


I am just saying these guys were suppose to like the Skrulls/Kree in the movieverse it would have been nice it had a side villain especially a movie of this magnitude. 



> See I didn't have any issue with bruce escaping and being back in gotham so quickly. Was there an explicity defined time between his release and his arrival? I thought there was an unexplicitly defined time (a day or 2 at least) between his escape and his arrival, could be wrong though. In that case I just went with he's Bruce Wayne / Batman and world travel isn't very difficult for him.


I find it more disturbing he knew where he was as he escaped. Or rather how the time skip did not transition smoothly.




> Cap can toss people like rag dolls, can make similar jumps, and is in general considered superhuman, but his forehead will not deflect bullets or arrows.
> 
> I figured the chitauri were similar in that their muscular strength didn't necessarily mean muscular / bone durability to match. And unless we saw something that contradicted BW and Hawkeye taking them out with lethal arrow/gun shots, I don't think it's a legitimate error.


Neither should be able to hurt Capt either. 



> Well it's not a fight, but Loki isn't that type of villain. It's never him vs. his enemies, it's him and whatever pawns/circumstances he can manipulate vs. his enemies.


To have everything of Loki shut down, I can understand stop his grand plan but at least have him win a few.   




> Again, he isn't really the type to have that kind of final battle. He can't stand up to Hulk/Thor and probably Iron Man physically, nor is it ever indicated that he can.
> 
> Joker is similar imo. His battle isn't whether or not Batman can take him down physically, of course he can. His battle is whether or not Boat A will blow up Boat B, or whether or not Harvey will undo all of his work putting away gotham's criminals.
> 
> For Loki, his final battle was the entire last act, not just the moment he got thrashed by the hulk.



I figure with the staff he had a power up to deal with things if it got hairy. Still though going out as Hulk punching back is lame.  


I





> 'll give you that he did slip up, and that BW could have been played up more when it came to cunning.
> 
> But, Loki being cocky as all hell is a part of his character. It's in his nature to revel in his intellectual superiority. Dropping hints is part of that.


Fair enough



> That's a fair opinion, but personally I see loki as the kind of guy who doesn't do more than he needs to. He doesn't need to mind control Hulk to get him to do what he wants, and going for banner would telegraph his plan just as much if not more than "you brought the monster" did.
> 
> But mainly, in some scenarios a scalpel is more useful than a bomb. Hulk wouldn't know how to steal the iridium without drawing tons of attention, for instance.



Hulk was the main threat if he had him under his control he would just need to deal with Iron Man or Thor. He can also mind control more than one person at a time so it isnt impossible for him to have both Hawkeye and Hulk.


----------



## Perverted King (Sep 10, 2012)

Danger Doom said:


> The worst of the trilogy yes I agree and most of those things I cant deny.
> 
> However to ignore all the Avengers fault and treat it like the hottest thing since slice bread.  It is not like the damn film reinvented the wheel.
> 
> After a month of both films you see how fast the hype died out?



The problem is you have six heroes to write and develop in the Avengers. There is bound to be some flaws but you can't tell you noticed it the first time you watched the movie. In fact some people know about the flaws because they read it on the internet. I watch the movie twice before I actually notice the flaws. A lot of movies have flaws but if they keep you entertained I don't have a problem with it.

The Dark Knight Rises flaws were just noticeable and ridiculous. Especially since they had to write one hero instead of six.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Sep 10, 2012)

Perverted King said:


> The problem is you have six heroes to write and develop in the Avengers. There is bound to be some flaws but you can't tell you noticed it the first time you watched the movie. In fact some people know about the flaws because they read it on the internet. I watch the movie twice before I actually notice the flaws. A lot of movies have flaws but if they keep you entertained I don't have a problem with it.
> 
> The Dark Knight Rises flaws were just noticeable and ridiculous. Especially since they had to write one hero instead of six.



This is why I say Black Widow and Hawkeye should really be side characters.


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## synthax (Sep 10, 2012)

Perverted King said:


> The problem is you have six heroes to write and develop in the Avengers.



This is irrelevant both had to work with a large cast one was the beginning while the other was ending.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 10, 2012)

Danger Doom said:


> I am just saying these guys were suppose to like the Skrulls/Kree in the movieverse it would have been nice it had a side villain especially a movie of this magnitude.



Yeah, but there's only so much time in a movie. Time devoted to the chitauri is time taken away from Loki and the avengers. First and foremost, the movie was about the team coming together and working together, so I can understand Whedon focusing on that rather than the bad guy's muscle.

However, it would have been nice to get more info on the Chitauri, I'll agree with you there. 



> I find it more disturbing he knew where he was as he escaped. Or rather how the time skip did not transition smoothly.



Part of this could be that I make certain assumptions across interpretations. Like I figure Nolan's Batman can do certain things because he's Batman, not necessarily because he's nolan's batman, know what I mean?

No arguments on the time skip transitions.



> Neither should be able to hurt Capt either.



Why not?

He's never depicted in the movies as being that durable, that's partly why the shields there.



> To have everything of Loki shut down, I can understand stop his grand plan but at least have him win a few.



Eh, depends on your definition of "winning". For me, crippling the helicarrier (and the avengers) and unleashing his army was a "win", just as crippling Batman and taking over Gotham was a "win" for Bane.



> I figure with the staff he had a power up to deal with things if it got hairy. Still though going out as Hulk punching back is lame.



He didn't though. It was a blaster weapon or a mind control device, blast wouldn't do crap to Hulk and he didn't get the chance to use mind control.



> Hulk was the main threat if he had him under his control he would just need to deal with Iron Man or Thor. He can also mind control more than one person at a time so it isnt impossible for him to have both Hawkeye and Hulk.



Hulk was the main threat, but not the main objective. The cube was the main objective. Also, he didnt' have a choice where he landed, so there's no way he could mind control hulk and then go for the cube.

And once he got the cube the first priority was hiding it and stabilizing it, which would have taken precedence over going after Hulk. And by that point, I think Hulk was already in shield custody.


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## Bart (Sep 10, 2012)

Perverted King said:


> Avengers is by far a better film. The Dark Knight Rises is the worst of Nolan's trology.
> 
> I mean Bane is in his 60s, Bruce has no "cartilage" and the injury wasn't even explained, Alfred saw Bruce depressed for eight years and never told her about Rachel choosing Harvey so he could move on, Bane hacks the stock market and Bruce is broke, Bruce asking Selina for help and then moving to London with her after she set him up to get crippled, Talia Al Ghul & Bane had the worst deaths ever, Batman survives a nuclear explosion after getting stabbed and barely being away from the blast & of course let's send every cop down to the sewers and Gordon called Blake a rookie the irony.



Bane was actually in his late 40's; around 48.

The injury wasn't explained? Did you see what happened throughout the Dark Knight? Falling off a building, being shot at point-blank range, being set upon by dogs, so on and so forth.

The list is pretty funny when taking into account the silliness that's occured in the Avengers; who's script was essentially to unite and stop some aliens 

Everything in that film surpasses the Avengers.


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## Wan (Sep 10, 2012)

So many trolls in this thread...


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## Bart (Sep 10, 2012)

Oman said:


> So many trolls in this thread...



This thread deserves a better class of troll. And I'm gonna give it to them!


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## Banhammer (Sep 10, 2012)

Chitauri aren't needed for development because they're going to be huge in the Guardians of the Galaxy and Avengers 2 movie
Loki and the avengers were the characters, but you didn't get huge decompressions of character development on any of them because you already had Thor, Iron Man, Captain America, IMII and the Hulk.
The Avengers was about all of the previous work, exploding into LEGEND OF AWESOME, while keeping all their personalities balanced into symphony


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## masamune1 (Sep 10, 2012)

Bart said:


> This thread deserves a better class of troll. And I'm gonna give it to them!



And if we can't save this thread, we can damn sure avenge it.


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## Bart (Sep 10, 2012)

masamune1 said:


> And if we can't save this thread, we can damn sure avenge it.



Oh god no lmfao


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## Banhammer (Sep 10, 2012)

I have a catwoman
We have a hulk


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## Huey Freeman (Sep 10, 2012)

masamune1 said:


> And if we can't save this thread, we can damn sure avenge it.



Oh, you think sarcasm is your ally? But you merely adopted Trolling; I was born in it, moulded by it. I didn't see serious posts until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but BLINDING!


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## Bart (Sep 10, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Chitauri aren't needed for development because they're going to be huge in the Guardians of the Galaxy and Avengers 2 movie
> Loki and the avengers were the characters, but you didn't get huge decompressions of character development on any of them because you already had Thor, Iron Man, Captain America, IMII and the Hulk.
> The Avengers was about all of the previous work, exploding into LEGEND OF AWESOME, while keeping all their personalities balanced into symphony



We're not judging the Chitauri on the other films, but this film and they had no back story and for some strange reason as I said before one of them surprisingly knew how to speak English ;S

But yeah I pretty much agree with you and I said earlier that those following films helped, but the Avengers is still its own film.


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## masamune1 (Sep 10, 2012)

Danger Doom said:


> Oh, you think sarcasm is your ally? But you merely adopted Trolling; I was born in it, moulded by it. I didn't see serious posts until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but BLINDING!



We both know I have to quote-stomp you now. 

You'll just have to imagine the fire.


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## Bart (Sep 10, 2012)

Danger Doom said:


> Oh, you think sarcasm is your ally? But you merely adopted Trolling; I was born in it, moulded by it. I didn't see serious posts until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but BLINDING!





masamune1 said:


> We both know I have to quote-stomp you now.
> 
> You'll just have to imagine the fire.



Theatricality and trolling are powerful agents to the uninitiated... but we are initiated, aren't we Danger and Masamune? Members of the League of Trolls!

*You cant use the Avengers quotes like these; further supports my point that the TDKR surpasses it on a whole other level*


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## GaaraoftheDesert1 (Sep 10, 2012)

HAAHAHAHAH Nerds who can count the movies they seen in their lives with their fingers, fighting over retarded blockbusters why am I not surpised


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 10, 2012)

Danger Doom said:


> Secondly they didnt even had higher ranking officers. Like a captain or something.



There was that Lord Marshal looking friend who was second in command for Thanos, but he hung back at the other side of the invasion portal, the two of them probably keeping tabs not so much on Loki but the Earth defense force.

I had the impression Loki was responsible for the brunt of the advance operation. He certainly tried.


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## Huey Freeman (Sep 10, 2012)

masamune1 said:


> We both know I have to quote-stomp you now.
> 
> You'll just have to imagine the fire.





Bart said:


> Trolling and theatricality are powerful agents to the uninitiated... but we are initiated, aren't we Danger and Masamune? Members of the League of Trolls!
> 
> *You cant use the Avengers quotes like these; further supports my point that the TDKR surpasses it on a whole other level*



I will show you where I have made my home while preparing to bring nonsense. Then I will break you.


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## masamune1 (Sep 10, 2012)

Bart said:


> Trolling and theatricality are powerful agents to the uninitiated... but we are initiated, aren't we Danger and Masamune? Members of the League of Trolls!
> 
> *You cant use the Avengers quotes like these; further supports my point that the TDKR surpasses it on a whole other level*



?

I understand that you have expressed your opinion. But given that its a stupid-ass opinion, I've chosen to ignore it!


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## masamune1 (Sep 10, 2012)

Danger Doom said:


> I will show you where I have made my home while preparing to bring nonsense. Then I will break you.



There was an idea... to bring together a group of remarkable trolls. To make them snark together when we needed them to, to write the nonsense that... we never could. Phil Coulson died still believing in that idea. In trolling.


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## Bart (Sep 10, 2012)

Danger Doom said:


> I will show you where I have made my home while preparing to bring nonsense. Then I will break you.







masamune1 said:


> ?
> 
> I understand that you have expressed your opinion. But given that its a stupid-ass opinion, I've chosen to ignore it!



Just the brilliant of the lines and the delivery which I'm sure you'd at least agree with ;3


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## Huey Freeman (Sep 10, 2012)

masamune1 said:


> There was an idea... to bring together a group of remarkable trolls. To make them snark together when we needed them to, to write the nonsense that... we never could. Phil Coulson died still believing in that idea. In trolling.



There's a storm coming, Mr. Masamune. You and the rest of fanboys better batten down the hatches, because when it hits, you're all gonna wonder how you ever thought you could troll so large and leave no jokes for the rest of us.


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## masamune1 (Sep 10, 2012)

When we've run out of jokes, when this thread is....ashes....you have my permission to die.


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## The World (Sep 10, 2012)

People still sucking on this new age Marvel fumes, Avengers had too many plot holes and just felt like empty barring the action scenes.

Just like how everyone overrated X-men First Class, X-2 was still better people


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## Narcissus (Sep 10, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> I have a catwoman
> We have a hulk



You saved the thread.


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## LadyNerd123 (Sep 10, 2012)

*Inserts self into the middle of an argument and then proceeds to ignore it*

Just carry on without me.  Wanted to put in my two cents' worth for the thread topic.

I would say I liked The Avengers better as a movie, but the Nolan series better as a whole franchise.  The Dark Knight Rises can be forgiven for coming second to The Avengers, I think; it was ending and The Avengers was supposed to be about the start of something.  Well orchestrated beginnings have tons of energy, momentum, and character beginnings that endings don't really have.  Especially endings as complex to navigate as the one Nolan created for himself.

I'm still just looking forward to The Man of Steel.  Promos have me excited that maybe they can make Superman's powers look less cheesy and more awesome, visually.


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## Wan (Sep 10, 2012)

masamune1 said:


> When we've run out of jokes, when this thread is....ashes....you have my permission to die.



Is not this simpler? Is this not your natural state? It's the unspoken truth of humanity that you crave trolling. The bright lure of intelligence diminishes your life's joy in a mad scramble for attention. For e-peen. You were made to be trolled. In the end, you will always fail.


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## masamune1 (Sep 10, 2012)

Oman said:


> Is not this simpler? Is this not your natural state? It's the unspoken truth of humanity that you crave trolling. The bright lure of intelligence diminishes your life's joy in a mad scramble for attention. For e-peen. You were made to be trolled. In the end, you will always fall.



NF'ers....They are not the cowering wretches we were promised. They Troll, they are unruly, and therefore cannot be ruled. To challenge them is to court....Death.


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## Banhammer (Sep 10, 2012)

Bart said:


> We're not judging the Chitauri on the other films, but this film and they had no back story and for some strange reason as I said before one of them surprisingly knew how to speak English ;S
> 
> But yeah I pretty much agree with you and I said earlier that those following films helped, but the Avengers is still its own film.



And the Black Widow and all the Shield was pretty lame in Iron Man 2 until avengers came out and then AWESOME 

RETROACTIVELY


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## Velocity (Sep 10, 2012)

Bart said:


> one of them surprisingly knew how to speak English ;S



Is it really that surprising? The Other knew _everything_ about Loki and even filled his mind with useless junk "ancient knowledge and new purpose", so I wouldn't be that surprised if they learned how to speak his tongue as well. There's also the possibility that he wasn't speaking English at all, but that Loki simply understood the language and it was spoken as English for simplicity's sake.

Besides, he was portrayed by Alexis Denisof. The dude is like the most British American on the planet.


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## The World (Sep 10, 2012)

He seemed cartoonish as fuck

I felt like I was watching a power rangers movie with that space backdrop


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## The World (Sep 10, 2012)

Thanos on his throne was indeed badass though

Him, Tony's one liner and Hulk, only saving grace of Avengers


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## GaaraoftheDesert1 (Sep 10, 2012)

To be honest I got the power rangers feeling as well...


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## Banhammer (Sep 10, 2012)

You say that




As if it were a bad thing


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## Banhammer (Sep 10, 2012)

Good enough


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## Bart (Sep 10, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> And the Black Widow and all the Shield was pretty lame in Iron Man 2 until avengers came out and then AWESOME
> 
> RETROACTIVELY



Hmmm


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## Stunna (Sep 10, 2012)

SHIELD was cool in Avengers because it was appropriate.


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## Federer (Sep 11, 2012)

*PUNY NOLANITES*​


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## Perverted King (Sep 11, 2012)

Danger Doom said:


> This is why I say Black Widow and Hawkeye should really be side characters.


I actually don't know what they are going to do with them in Avengers 2 with Ant Man & possibly Wasp and Dr. Strange around.


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## Arya Stark (Sep 11, 2012)

Apples and oranges....


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## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 11, 2012)

Perverted King said:


> I actually don't know what they are going to do with them in Avengers 2 with Ant Man & possibly Wasp and Dr. Strange around.



I wouldn't be surprised if they get a movie. Renner's pretty much a proven action star, and a lot of people responded well to BW's role in Avengers.

If not, they still fit the spy / assassin roles in the avengers.


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## Huey Freeman (Sep 11, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if they get a movie. Renner's pretty much a proven action star, and a lot of people responded well to BW's role in Avengers.
> 
> If not, they still fit the spy / assassin roles in the avengers.



BW will suffer the same fate as Catwoman or any female hero with a solo movie.


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## Bart (Sep 11, 2012)

Moon~ said:


> Apples and oranges....



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SuTLMp6Ytw[/YOUTUBE]



Danger Doom said:


> *BW will suffer the same fate as Catwoman or any female hero with a solo movie.*



Kill Bill and Jackie Brown proved that wrong ;3

And Catwoman shouldn't be compared to BW, for obvious reasons; especially from what we've seen with BW 

I mean really? Her hoodwinking one of the most intelligent beings in the entire Marvel Universe?


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## Huey Freeman (Sep 11, 2012)

Bart said:


> Kill Bill and Jackie Brown proved that wrong ;S
> 
> And Catwoman shouldn't be compared to BW, for obvious reasons; especially in the films we've seen



Nope not really Kill Bill could be considered a fan classic. It will share the same fate.


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## Bart (Sep 11, 2012)

Well BW isn't that interesting enough in the first place, or at the very least compared to an iconic being such as Wonder Woman ;3

I'm still praying that Refn directs it with his choice of Hendricks playing Diana; but a film like Kill Bil, Alien, Wizard of Oz or even Mary Poppins  pretty much showed that with a great script and an emensely talented director that a female-lead is a pretty spectacular thing to behold :WOW


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## Wan (Sep 11, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if they get a movie. Renner's pretty much a proven action star, and a lot of people responded well to BW's role in Avengers.
> 
> If not, they still fit the spy / assassin roles in the avengers.



I think a Hawkeye/Black Widow movie, with a plot involving SHIELD, has potential.  I'd go see it.


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## Anarch (Sep 11, 2012)

Both are so over hyped. They are great actions movies but it kills me to watch their respective fandoms tote them as 'one of the greatest movies ever'. They were superhero action movies meant to entertain and they did that and nothing more. 
I would have no interest in going back and rewatching either movie.

Overall I'd rate Avengers over TDKR ( simply for better action ) but both Begins and TDK were much much better than Avengers. In fact I may be the only one here but of all those movies I liked Begins best.


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## Perverted King (Sep 11, 2012)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if they get a movie. Renner's pretty much a proven action star, and a lot of people responded well to BW's role in Avengers.
> 
> If not, they still fit the spy / assassin roles in the avengers.



They payed Scarlette Johanson a crazy load of money for a side character. No way she's just gonna be thrown on the side. Quite frankly any female actress could have played her role. Is not like Johanson is the hottest women out there.


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## The810kid (Sep 11, 2012)

Velocity said:


> Is it really that surprising? The Other knew _everything_ about Loki and even filled his mind with useless junk "ancient knowledge and new purpose", so I wouldn't be that surprised if they learned how to speak his tongue as well. There's also the possibility that he wasn't speaking English at all, but that Loki simply understood the language and it was spoken as English for simplicity's sake.
> 
> Besides, *he was portrayed by Alexis Denisof*. The dude is like the most British American on the planet.



Wesley Wendom Price had a role in the movie I think I need to re watch.


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## GaaraoftheDesert1 (Sep 11, 2012)

Dont use Kill Bill and Jackie Brown in the same sentence with your trash superhero films.. Tarantino is years ahead in terms of storytelling, directing and dialogue than anyone of the marvel/dc.


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## Stunna (Sep 11, 2012)

lol Kill Bill


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## Wan (Sep 11, 2012)

GaaraoftheDesert1 said:


> Dont use Kill Bill and Jackie Brown in the same sentence with your trash superhero films.. Tarantino is years ahead in terms of storytelling, directing and dialogue than anyone of the marvel/dc douchebags.



You trolls are so petty.  And tiny.


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## Harard (Sep 11, 2012)

The Dark Knight Rises, and it's not even close.


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## synthax (Sep 11, 2012)

Nolan has done a good job, creating one of the best movie  trilogies ever,the best CBM ever ,joining Cameron of having 2 movies crossing a billion dollars and did  so not relying on 3D.


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## Narcissus (Sep 11, 2012)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4Tqg7BFPF8[/YOUTUBE]


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## Wan (Sep 11, 2012)

Narcissus said:


> snip



Two can play at citing TGWTG personalities!

This isn't a Korean celeb, but damn him in trouble


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## Doom85 (Sep 12, 2012)

I don't feel like rewatching it, but IIRC Doug had a few problems in that review:

-saying he's a big Batman fan but then saying he's not familiar with Talia
-acting like Bruce gets back to Gotham instantly. Three weeks is not "instantly"

There were a few other things in the review that bugged me (Linkara made similar mistakes), but yeah. I love these critics but it seems when they review movies they only saw once in the theatre they'll often misremember things or missed details.


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## The World (Sep 12, 2012)

You mean he's a jackass


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## Bart (Sep 12, 2012)

GaaraoftheDesert1 said:


> Dont use Kill Bill and Jackie Brown in the same sentence with your trash superhero films.. Tarantino is years ahead in terms of storytelling, directing and dialogue than anyone of the marvel/dc.



Trash superhero films? Well you have a point but the _Dark Knight Trilogy_ is a seperate entity if I'm being honest, and Tarantino's a massive comic fan by the way.

But I can't argue with someone who has a PTA avatar ;(


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## Tyrion (Sep 12, 2012)

I rewatched the Avengers about 3 times. TDKR? Once. Even I regret that.


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## Narcissus (Sep 12, 2012)

Oman said:


> Two can play at citing TGWTG personalities!
> 
> This isn't a Korean celeb, but damn him in trouble



After all that off-topic rambling she still liked Avengers more.


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## The Potential (Sep 12, 2012)

Glad I read thru the thread before posting.. I enjoyed TDKR more. Went to see both of them twice..


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## staticbeast (Sep 13, 2012)

Just face it, The Avengers is still so much better then The Dark Knight Rises.


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