# Current Naruto vs Prime Hashirama,EMS Madara,Rinnegan Obito,Nagato,Minato,Itachi



## Transcendent Shinobi (Jul 10, 2014)

Location:Supreme kai world

Starting distance: 400 meters

MindSet: Cool

Clarifications: EMS Madara has 100 percent kurama,Minato has BM,Itachi is healthy,Obito can summon the 6 jinchuriki and gedo. No one is edo. 

Restrictions: No one is edo.


Does team Hashi even have a chance?


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## Ghost (Jul 10, 2014)

Naruto rapes.

/thread


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## Ruse (Jul 10, 2014)

/Thread


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## MusubiKazesaru (Jul 10, 2014)

Naruto takes it with ease


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## Cognitios (Jul 10, 2014)

You should have left and stayed gone.
Naruto rapes no diff.


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## RedChidori (Jul 10, 2014)

Current Naruto has all the power of every Bijuu bar Juubi and Sage of Six Paths powers; Naruto commits one the most horrific and vile rapings mankind has ever witnessed .


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## Ruse (Jul 10, 2014)

Waiting for all the Hashi/Madara fans


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## Cognitios (Jul 10, 2014)

You forgot some minato fans that say he can S/T everything away back at naruto ^


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## Trojan (Jul 10, 2014)

Naruto is way too powerful. U_U
he would destroy them. U_U


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## StickaStick (Jul 10, 2014)

You look at the guys Naruto's going against and should think no effing way could a team composed of those individuals lose to anyone, and then realize where the power levels have gone. Not sure that's a good thought 

Anyway, Naruto creates a clone for each (or whatever) and proceeds to do the dirty.


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## Sorin (Jul 10, 2014)

Naruto escorts them to the above location.


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## Dr. White (Jul 10, 2014)

Everyone hunckers up in their defense.

The Bjuu sacrifice themselves by sending all the Bjuudama they can against Naruto. Meanwhile Hashirama, Itachi, Minato, and Madara all start layering their defenses. Meanwhile Itachi summons the Shisui crow.

After the explosion, we have dead Bjuu and a cvery smoky area, the crow is sent out to Naruto. But Naruto kills the crow. He then creates 10 clones and soloes the other teams bunker.

Obito then saves them by transporting them to his dimension before Naruto break through. And they live in constant fear of Naruto.


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## Transcendent Shinobi (Jul 10, 2014)

Cognitios said:


> *You should have left and stayed gone.*
> Naruto rapes no diff.



The forums are open to everyone and I don't really care what some random SoB on the internet thinks/wants lol


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jul 10, 2014)

Naruto creates 1000 clones, proceeds to buttrape.


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## Shinobi no Kami (Jul 10, 2014)

Naruto gets killed rather easily. 

The firepower that naruto has shown was already matched by PS.

Naruto doesn't have any advantage over someone that has replicated indras full power.

Hashirama has the mokujin which equals PS and shinsuusenju which surpasses it 

narutos nukes get tanked. Naruto gets wiped off of the map.


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## Cognitios (Jul 10, 2014)

> The forums are open to everyone and I don't really care what some random SoB on the internet thinks/wants lol


I am aware, but considering your dramatic exit I thought that'd you'd stay gone, for at least longer than a  month. Just some friendly advice, don't say the forum is wasting your time and make a dramatic website and call this place a joke if your going to crawl back less than a month latter and then make rape threads.


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## RedChidori (Jul 10, 2014)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> Naruto gets killed rather easily.
> 
> The firepower that naruto has shown was already matched by PS.
> 
> ...



Yoton Rasenshuriken obliterates all of them rather easily my guy . Naruto has surpassed all these guys as soon as he got the Rikudo power-up.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Jul 10, 2014)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> *Naruto gets killed rather easily.*
> 
> The firepower that naruto has shown was already matched by PS.
> 
> ...



Finally someone not caught up in the moment....

Current Naruto has not demonstrated a CHAKARA CONSTRUCT, therefore he's very, very, VERY, opened to the opponents counter attacks. 

I don't get the current trend, as Naruto had nukes prior to his current skill set. I don't get the current trend, as Naruto was able to nuke while being protected by a Susano'o like construct in BM.

Yes, Naruto is currently able to fly, and that may help. But Nagato still neutralizes all his chakara based attacks.(As can Minato) Naruto's clones have been confirmed to possess a lower chakara capacity than Sakukura, and this chapter they only utilized taijutsu...

This isn't a battle of firepower. It's a battle of survival. I'm sorry but Naruto isn't nuking shit out the gate. And the AOE potential of the opposing team is................The field control of the other team is.............A "rookie mistake" on Naruto's part could cost him everything, as again he doesn't have the protection of a chakara construct.

This match is a bit too ambition on Naruto fans part. Naruto received the upgrade of his life recently, and the only things that stand out is the ability to fly and revive the dead/heal.

Nukes aren't knew, neither is super strength, etc. etc.

And the final nail in this coffin is Kaguya herself. This attack here....Is a small scale variation of this attack here.

Naruto gets raped no KY.....The other team has fire power, numbers, brains, and COUNTERS TO NARUTO'S NUKES, and Naruto's only defense is flight.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Jul 10, 2014)

Naruto gets utterly destroyed. 
I don't know how anyone can say otherwise.


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## Jagger (Jul 10, 2014)

>Hasn't shown a chakra construct.

Wait, why would he need to show one in order to prove he has one? He does have Kurama's chakra inside of him and that's more than necessary to prove he has one.

One of Naruto's attacks was capable of matching the firepower shown by Perfect Susano'O, that much was shown when he cut the God Tree (something equally as big or bigger than the mountains cut by Madara) and when the explosion of his Bijuudama dwarfed the size of Sasuke's Perfect Susano'O, who should be, logically, stronger than Madara's.



King Itachi said:


> Naruto gets utterly destroyed.
> I don't know how anyone can say otherwise.


Naruto utterly destroys them.

I don't know how anyone can say otherwise.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Jul 10, 2014)

Jagger said:


> >Hasn't shown a chakra construct.
> 
> Wait, why would he need to show one in order to prove he has one? He does have Kurama's chakra inside of him and that's more than necessary to prove he has one.
> 
> ...



No need to debate against such denial.
You're deluded if you think Naruto is able to face Prime Hashirama, EMS Madara w/ 100% Kyuubi, Obito w/ 6 Bijuu and Nagato (Gedou Mazou) at the same time.

Add Itachi and Edo Minato (BM) to that bunch...


Naruto gets raped. /thread


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## ueharakk (Jul 10, 2014)

Naruto can destroy these jokers with a clone for each one.

Shinsuusenjuu, the jinchuriki paths and itachi's susanoo gets oneshot by youton rasenshuriken, Kyuusanoo and BM Minato gets oneshot by bijuudamarasenshuriken, Nagato gets oneshot by frog katas, Obito gets oneshot by a fuuton rasenshuriken.



Shinobi no Kami said:


> Naruto gets killed rather easily.
> 
> The firepower that naruto has shown was already matched by PS.
> 
> ...



let me get this straight.  You're saying that SM Hashirama >>> EMS MAdara w/o Kurama = Indra > current naruto?


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## Cognitios (Jul 10, 2014)

RikudoSennin+Indra >>>>> Indra
come on now


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## αce (Jul 10, 2014)

Naruto in base was already massively superior to the strongest member on the second team. When he's powered up it's basically game over.


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## Shinobi no Kami (Jul 10, 2014)

ueharakk said:


> Naruto can destroy these jokers with a clone for each one.
> 
> Shinsuusenjuu, the jinchuriki paths and itachi's susanoo gets oneshot by youton rasenshuriken, Kyuusanoo and BM Minato gets oneshot by bijuudamarasenshuriken, Nagato gets oneshot by frog katas, Obito gets oneshot by a fuuton rasenshuriken.
> 
> ...



Nope, I said that naruto is equal to those who have replicated indras full power. Madara and sasuke are these people.


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## αce (Jul 10, 2014)

Except Sasuke _isn't_ a replicate of Indra's full power. He's well above him. He has the Rinnegan, something that Indra never achieved. And thus by correlation, Naruto logically is above Ashura as well, especially since he has the power of 9 bijuu, something Ashura himself never had.


The only relation Ashura and Indra have with Sasuke and Naruto is that they have their chakra and ideology. Other than that, they have abilities that Rikudou's sons never had access too.



Madara replicated Indra's full power when he achieved the eternal mangekyou. As did Sasuke when he had his. Madara obviously went past that but so did Sasuke with the rinnegan.


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## Jagger (Jul 10, 2014)

King Itachi said:


> No need to debate against such denial.
> You're deluded if you think Naruto is able to face Prime Hashirama, EMS Madara w/ 100% Kyuubi, Obito w/ 6 Bijuu and Nagato (Gedou Mazou) at the same time.
> 
> Add Itachi and Edo Minato (BM) to that bunch...
> ...


The problem is that half of those don't represent a problem to Naruto's abilities. 

Itachi is one of the first to go down since his firepower abilities are just too below in order to compete, not to mention Naruto's overwhelming amount of clones can change things to his side  quite quickly and I doubt those clones are weak enough since Naruto's chakra reserves is too massive (Kyuubi + 8 Bijuu). 

The only real problem here is Hashirama due his restraining abilities and Kurama because it's not something you can easily kill.


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## ueharakk (Jul 10, 2014)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> Nope, I said that naruto is equal to those who have replicated indras full power. Madara and sasuke are these people.



Oh so it's not Madara w/o Kurama > Naruto, it's more like SM Hashirama >> Madara w/o Kurama = Naruto.


So correct me if I'm wrong, but you believe SM Hashirama would massacre current Naruto in a fight?


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## Psp123789 (Jul 10, 2014)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> Naruto gets killed rather easily.
> 
> The firepower that naruto has shown was already matched by PS.


That was destroying mere mountains. Do i need to remind you that the mere rubble from Madara's CT was dwarfing entire mountain ranges.



> Naruto doesn't have any advantage over someone that has replicated indras full power.


What? So you're saying EMS madara>=Current Naruto? 



> Hashirama has the mokujin which equals PS and shinsuusenju which surpasses it


Lol so?



> narutos nukes get tanked. Naruto gets wiped off of the map.


Naruto dodges or tanks any of their nukes with the gou damas and erases them off the world with over 6 BDFRS. Honsetly dude it seems like you're creating your own bullshit for these guys just to Prove what you want to be true. Sorry but that is how it looks.



King Itachi said:


> No need to debate against such denial.
> You're deluded if you think Naruto is able to face Prime Hashirama, EMS Madara w/ 100% Kyuubi, Obito w/ 6 Bijuu and Nagato (Gedou Mazou) at the same time.
> 
> Add Itachi and Edo Minato (BM) to that bunch...
> ...


So you're saying 90% of the members in this thread are delusional? Lol look at how far you're reaching and bullshitting in order match what you want to be true.


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## Kyu (Jul 10, 2014)

Naruto is too good.

He bisects them with his cock.


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## Ruse (Jul 10, 2014)

The denial is strong in some of these posts. 

I know its ridiculous for Naruto to be able to wreck this team but it's just the way it is blame Kishi for the lolpowerlevels and reducing your favourites to mere canon fodder in comparison to Naruto.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Jul 10, 2014)

Psp123789 said:


> So you're saying 90% of the members in this thread are delusional? Lol look at how far you're reaching and bullshitting in order match what you want to be true.



Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying...and bandwagoners.
If all you can do is be a smartass and talk shit, you don't need my response.

What you call a "stomp" can be construed as reaching, as well...

To each his own.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Jul 10, 2014)

There is...not one got-tier on the opposing team. How does naruto not win this oh wait i see people already made scenarios where they just name off other people powers and make naruto stand there .

Anyway itachi, nagato and obito are really fodder here itachi gets fucked by a chakra arm+Ultra big ball FRS from behind yata mirror is useless, nagato is destroy with super strength taijutsu preta is useless and obito is gangraped by clones with rasengan variants even if he try to warp them up kamui is useless. Their offense is not even threatening no need to go into that shit.

BM minato, the other bijuu, madara and hashirama gets obliterated by meteor shower country erasing multi TBBRS just for the hell of it naruto could beat them with less. Nothing they do can naruto sheer AoE backed by large chakra reserves it's just logic.

Jeez how many of these threads are gonna be made before people realize. Naruto has not even gone all out yet.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 10, 2014)

Current Naruto uses Kakiri Musou to increase his strength to the point where he can overwhelm Kaguya then uses Tayju Kage Bushin no Jutsu to make 1000 clones to fight the team, and finally all of them use Bijudama Rasenshuriken. The opposition are completely wiped off the map. Hell the latter isn't needed with the flying, Rikudo Senjutsu clones enhanced by Kakiri Musou.


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## Psp123789 (Jul 10, 2014)

King Itachi said:


> Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying...and bandwagoners.


Haha but you know what's funny? I actually see them posting reasons on why Naruto wins unlike you who's just pouting in the corner angrily claiming that we are delusional instead of actually trying to fucking prove why we are wrong using facts and logic like any good debater would. Thanks for confirming that you're just an angry fanboy.



> If all you can do is be a smartass and talk shit, you don't need my response.


I like how you're saying that just after talking shit about 90% of the members here, the way you think is just simply outstanding dude. Thanks for saving me the headache of reading you're twisted logic.




> What you call a "stomp" can be construed as reaching, as well...
> 
> To each his own.


Nah the reaching I said you were doing is on a whole other lvl than that. You're taking it to the point where you're insulting members just because you want what you think to be true. Have a good day.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Jul 10, 2014)

Psp123789 said:


> Haha but you know what's funny? I actually see them posting reasons on why Naruto wins unlike you who's just pouting in the corner angrily claiming that we are delusional instead of actually trying to fucking prove why we are wrong using facts and logic like any logical debater would. Thanks for confirming that you're just an angry fanboy.
> 
> 
> I like how you're saying that just after talking shit about 90% of the members here. Thanks for saving me the headache of reading you're twisted logic.
> ...



The difference is, I've given my reasons within many threads and don't have the time to participate in such a drawn-out debate when the disparity in opinion is so massive. 

And talking shit? Me? 
I merely stated that the general opinion is misleading and fallacious due to the performance against Madara I've outlined in other threads. Adding to that, the false appeal leads to bandwagoners. If I'm not mistaken, I've already had this discussion with you and don't have any reason to continue it. Our beliefs and interpretations of the manga are far apart, so it's best if we don't proceed. 

Good day to you, too.


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## rubberguy (Jul 10, 2014)

naruto takes their bijuus and proceed to stomp.


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## Psp123789 (Jul 10, 2014)

King Itachi said:


> The difference is, I've given my reasons within many threads and don't have the time to participate in such a drawn-out debate when the disparity in opinion is so massive.


So you're basically saying that since you don't feel like giving reasons anymore you're going to instead call everyone who doesn't agree with you delusional? I have a perfect solution to you're situation. How about you just stop posting in threads like this where you know there is going to be a lot "deluded bandwagoners" as you said. 


> And talking shit? Me?
> I merely stated that the general opinion is misleading and fallacious due to the performance against Madara I've outlined in other threads. Adding to that, the false appeal leads to bandwagoners.


You straight up stated that 90% of the members here are deluded bandwagoners a second ago.


> If I'm not mistaken, I've already had this discussion with you and don't have any reason to continue it. Our beliefs and interpretations of the manga are far apart, so it's best if we don't proceed.


Agreed i'm done discussing a never ending topic with you. I'll back off.


> Good day to you, too.


Adios


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## DaVizWiz (Jul 10, 2014)

rubberguy said:


> naruto takes their bijuus and proceed to stomp.


Lol forgot that, he removes the bijuu from the Edo Jins and he now has 6 bijuu on his team.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Jul 10, 2014)

Psp123789 said:


> So you're basically saying that since you don't feel like giving reasons anymore you're going to instead call everyone who doesn't agree with you delusional? I have a perfect solution to you're situation. How about you just stop posting in threads like this where you know there is going to be a lot "deluded bandwagoners" as you said.
> 
> You straight up stated that 90% of the members here are deluded bandwagoners a second ago.
> 
> ...



I don't need to take advice from you. I've made my point and don't want to argue with someone who differs in opinion so much; it leads to endless quarreling and wastes our time.

And I don't know why you take so much offense from the word "deluded" in this case.

This response is my last to you, as I don't want AS to close the thread because of our conversation.


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## Psp123789 (Jul 10, 2014)

King Itachi said:


> I don't need to take advice from you. I've made my point and don't want to argue with someone who differs in opinion so much; it leads to endless quarreling and wastes our time.


That was more of a suggestion, it makes no difference whether or not you consider it.



> And I don't know why you take so much offense from the word "deluded" in this case.
> 
> This response is my last to you, as I don't want AS to close the thread because of our conversation.


Goodbye


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## Ashi (Jul 10, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Current Naruto uses Kakiri Musou to increase his strength to the point where he can overwhelm Kaguya then uses Tayju Kage Bushin no Jutsu to make 1000 clones to fight the team, and finally all of them use Bijudama Rasenshuriken. The opposition are completely wiped off the map. Hell the latter isn't needed with the flying, Rikudo Senjutsu clones enhanced by Kakiri Musou.



Since when can his clones use TBBRS??

They need Truthseekers for that


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 10, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> Since when can his clones use TBBRS??
> 
> They need Truthseekers for that


I think they can create their own Gudodama for it.


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## Trojan (Jul 10, 2014)

DaVizWiz said:


> Lol forgot that, he removes the bijuu from the Edo Jins and he now has 6 bijuu on his team.



He did not remove the Bijuus from the Edo jins though, he just destroyed the black rods, and the Bijuus returned to the GM.

King itachi. 

@>@

How do you think they can win against Naruto? 
Even though I do agree with some stuff stated in this thread on the other side of the argument
like about the clones. I think they way people think of the clones is broken, not so much in the actual
manga though. 

But either way, what can they do against Naruto? 
because unless Naruto goes the nice guy mode as he always is, he is just too powerful. @>@


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## Trojan (Jul 10, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> I think they can create their own Gudodama for it.



The clones do not have GD, and they can't create them either. As Minato explained, those GDs
are self existed and all the other stuff he said. In short, if that was possible, then Madara would
have created more when Minato made his GDs completely useless.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 10, 2014)

Hussain said:


> The clones do not have GD, and they can't create them either. As Minato explained, those GDs
> are self existed and all the other stuff he said. In short, if that was possible, then Madara would
> have created more when Minato made his GDs completely useless.


Madara did create more. However he was more limited to just one above his hands. Gudodama's are a senjutsu technique, the Clones should be able to make their own just limited to one a piece. 

And Shinobi no Kami, King Itachi, neither Madara nor Hashirama achieved the full Indra or Asura power Sasuke and Naruto had. This is shown by Sasuke gaining the Rinnegan and Naruto gaining Rikudo Senjutsu, Madara and Hashirama just got the EMS and Sage Mode respectively. Naruto _alone_ is holding his own against Kaguya Otutsuki now, overwhelming her in Taijutsu and forcing her to cross dimensions. According to your logic, Hashirama and Madara can do the same? What's your basis for that?


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## Trojan (Jul 10, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Madara did create more. However he was more limited to just one above his hands. Gudodama's are a senjutsu technique, the Clones should be able to make their own just limited to one a piece.
> 
> And Shinobi no Kami, King Itachi, neither Madara nor Hashirama achieved the full Indra or Asura power Sasuke and Naruto had. This is shown by Sasuke gaining the Rinnegan and Naruto gaining Rikudo Senjutsu, Madara and Hashirama just got the EMS and Sage Mode respectively. Naruto _alone_ is holding his own against Kaguya Otutsuki now, overwhelming her in Taijutsu and forcing her to cross dimensions. According to your logic, Hashirama and Madara can do the same? What's your basis for that?



Scan for him creating more please.  

My logic? 
what are you talking about! I'm only talking about the Gedu-damas. 

and everyone and their mothers should know by know that I believe BSM Naruto was already
stronger than Hashirama, let alone current Naruto. 

Edit:
forget about the last sentences if you did not mean me, I was confused it seems. lol


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 10, 2014)

Hussain said:


> Scan for him creating more please.


I believe its after Minato took them away, he created one more over his hand. 


> My logic?
> what are you talking about! I'm only talking about the Gedu-damas.
> 
> and everyone and their mothers should know by know that I believe BSM Naruto was already
> stronger than Hashirama, let alone current Naruto.


I was addressing Shinobi no Kami and King Itachi, not you.


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## Danekwow (Jul 10, 2014)

Yeah sure Current Naruto vs 6 Bijuus,One 100 % Kurama,PS Madara,SM Hashirama,BM Minato,Rinnengan Obito,Rinnengan Nagato and Itachi as support.It's just to much for Naruto.Minato can redirect everything he throws at them and maybe hit him with that and they have enough firepower to kill him.


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## Sans (Jul 10, 2014)

I bet Naruto gets taken out by finger genjutsu like a scrub. U_U


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## Trojan (Jul 10, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> I believe its after Minato took them away, he created one more over his hand.
> 
> I was addressing Shinobi no Kami and King Itachi, not you.



No, he did not create it, Minato did not take all of his Gedu-damas, and that was the only one remaining. Basically, the one he used to turtle himself up. 

- yeah, sorry about that man...


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## ueharakk (Jul 10, 2014)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Finally someone not caught up in the moment....


Complimenting the guy who says SM Hashirama alone would wreck current Naruto.



IpHr0z3nI said:


> Current Naruto has not demonstrated a CHAKARA CONSTRUCT, therefore he's very, very, VERY, opened to the opponents counter attacks.


....what counterattacks when the entire opposing team gets wiped off the map by 6 bijuudamarasenshurikens?

But lets pretend naruto just stands there and lets them attack him, he still has clones that can fly and are fast by kaguya's standards, the rikudou senjutsu which nullifies ninjutsu, onmyouton which destroys anything other than senjutsu, the best sensing in the manga by far and 




IpHr0z3nI said:


> I don't get the current trend, as Naruto had nukes prior to his current skill set. I don't get the current trend, as Naruto was able to nuke while being protected by a Susano'o like construct in BM.


So BM Naruto > current Naruto?  If not, then what you've posted is literally irrelevant to how naruto stacks up to his opponents in this matchup.



IpHr0z3nI said:


> Yes, Naruto is currently able to fly, and that may help. But Nagato still neutralizes all his chakara based attacks.(As can Minato) Naruto's clones have been confirmed to possess a lower chakara capacity than Sakukura, and this chapter they only utilized taijutsu...


Nagato neutralizing all his chakra based attacks is a no limits fallacy. Nagato turns into stone if he tries to absorb a nuke.  Nagato the only way nagato can neutralize an attack is if he touches one, how is he going to do that when naruto can detonate his attacks on command?  At his absolute greatest, nagato is going to absorb one of naruto's attacks and turn into stone, more likely naruto is going to detonate his attack in nagato's face killing him and the rest of his team.
Minato can only neutralize one attack, and naruto again detonates it in minato's face.

Clone + Sakura being required =/= Sakura > clone.  



IpHr0z3nI said:


> This isn't a battle of firepower. It's a battle of survival. I'm sorry but Naruto isn't nuking shit out the gate. And the AOE potential of the opposing team is................The field control of the other team is.............*A "rookie mistake" on Naruto's part could cost him everything, as again he doesn't have the protection of a chakara construct.*


Battle of firepower and battle of survival aren't mutually exclusive.  Naruto didn't even need his most powerful nuke in order to destroy the shinjuu which is > team 2's greatest construct (shinsuusenjuu).  They have nothing that can survive a single bijuudamarasenshuriken, let alone 6 of them.

Bolded is irrelevant unless you show what kind of mistake he makes and how probable him making that mistake would be.



IpHr0z3nI said:


> This match is a bit too ambition on Naruto fans part. Naruto received the upgrade of his lif
> e recently, and the only things that stand out is the ability to fly and revive the dead/heal.[
> ......and wreck one eye'd jj madara without even powering up
> ...cut the shinjuu in half with a casual attack
> ...


wow, just wow.  So you're basically saying current Naruto = BM Naruto - chakra avatar + flight + ability to revive others.  Leave the dome.



IpHr0z3nI said:


> And the final nail in this coffin is Kaguya herself. This attack here....Is a small scale variation of this attack here.


Let me get this straight, you're saying shinsuusenjuu's barrage > kaguya's punches? Despite mindless juubito's chakra arms being able to rip the hokage barrier apart, the same barrier that took an attack that would have wiped out kurama, PS and shinsuusenjuu?  Yeah, seems legit.



IpHr0z3nI said:


> Naruto gets raped no KY.....The other team has fire power, numbers, brains, and COUNTERS TO NARUTO'S NUKES, and Naruto's only defense is flight.


Of course he does if current Naruto isn't allowed to nuke, just stands there, and is basically the equivalent of BM Naruto + flight and ability to heal others. 

Naruto throws 6 bijuudama rasenshurikens, what exactly can team 2 do?  Naruto uses tajuu kagebunshin and has his clones uses a bunch of youton rasenshurikens, what exactly can team 2 do?  The answer is nothing but die.


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## Trojan (Jul 10, 2014)

Minato is not going to get nuked though. @>@

<<<<< and here we go. :rofl


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## ueharakk (Jul 10, 2014)

Hussain said:


> Minato is not going to get nuked though. @>@
> 
> <<<<< and here we go. :rofl


the only way i see minato not getting nuked is if he either teleports back to konoha or obito teleports him into his dimension before the nuke goes off.


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## Psp123789 (Jul 10, 2014)

Itachi koto's Naruto and makes him destroy team hashirama. Itachi is unable to not solo no matter what the odds are


----------



## Trojan (Jul 10, 2014)

ueharakk said:


> the only way i see minato not getting nuked is if he either teleports back to konoha or obito teleports him into his dimension before the nuke goes off.



That's exactly what I was thinking. lol
he just can teleport (and teleport the others) to konoha or somewhere else. 

but you ruined my fun by figuring that out easily.


----------



## KibaforHokage (Jul 10, 2014)

Naruto uses Sexy No Jutsu, and then knocks everyone who surprised

and then stomps the rest


----------



## ueharakk (Jul 10, 2014)

Hussain said:


> That's exactly what I was thinking. lol
> he just can teleport (and teleport the others) to konoha or somewhere else.
> 
> but you ruined my fun by figuring that out easily.



more fun for you:
Naruto knows his dad will teleport them away so he just mentally detonates the bijuurasenshuriken/YRS before it gets close to them.


----------



## Ruse (Jul 10, 2014)

Funny thing is when Naruto goes all out some will probably still say Hashi > Current Naruto


----------



## Trojan (Jul 10, 2014)

ueharakk said:


> more fun for you:
> Naruto knows his dad will teleport them away so he just mentally detonates the bijuurasenshuriken/YRS before it gets close to them.



S/T barrier. 

anyway, what do you think of the clone's chakra? 
Naruto used one clone, at first, and Obito stated that his chakra is not even enough.

Don'y you think making a huge number of them would make their chakra even worst, and thus
they become weaker? Which means, having the ability to use those huge attacks is arguable. 

The clone's chakra supposedly even less than Sakura's chakra or something like that,,,
it either Sakura has some insane chakra that exceeds even BSM Naruto, or the clones do not
have that much power than the origin one. 


> Funny thing is when Naruto goes all out some will probably still say Hashi > Current Naruto


and they blame me when I say that guy is overrated as hell.


----------



## MusubiKazesaru (Jul 10, 2014)

Hussain said:


> and they blame me when I say that guy is overrated as hell.



He's not as overrated as Minato, even in-series


----------



## ueharakk (Jul 10, 2014)

Hussain said:


> S/T barrier.


nice.



Hussain said:


> anyway, what do you think of the clone's chakra?
> Naruto used one clone, at first, and Obito stated that his chakra is not even enough.
> 
> Don'y you think making a huge number of them would make their chakra even worst, and thus
> they become weaker? Which means, having the ability to use those huge attacks is arguable.


naruto was able to use youton rasenshuriken in 'base'.  These clones are RSM clones and youton rasenshuriken doesn't get its power from chakra quantity it gets it from combining ultimate shape manipulation (rasenshuriken) with a kekke genkai which would be much stronger than fuuton (youton).



Hussain said:


> The clone's chakra supposedly even less than Sakura's chakra or something like that,,,
> it either Sakura has some insane chakra that exceeds even BSM Naruto, or the clones do not
> have that much power than the origin one.


I don't know where you got the clone's chakra was less than Sakura's.  Clone + Sakura = just enough chakra, that doesn't mean the clone has less than her.  

If a KCM clone had enough chakra to use stuff like FRS and bijuudama rasengan (some of KCM Naruto's higher level techs) I'd expect the RSM clone to be capable of at least using some of base naruto's higher level techs.



Hussain said:


> and they blame me when I say that guy is overrated as hell.


I'm pretty sure there's only going to be one guy on Narutoforums claiming Hashi > current Naruto after naruto goes all out, and one guy doesn't really make hashi overated though.


----------



## ATastyMuffin (Jul 10, 2014)

People, just ignore people like Shinobi no Kami and Iphrozeni. They contribute nothing to the discussion and only serve as mild entertainment.

Naruto destroys them.


----------



## Sans (Jul 10, 2014)

ATastyMuffin said:


> People, just ignore people like Shinobi no Kami and Iphrozeni. They contribute nothing to the discussion and only serve as mild entertainment.
> 
> Naruto destroys them.



Why are you ignoring me? U_U

Am I not mildly entertaining? U_U


----------



## ATastyMuffin (Jul 10, 2014)

Komnenos said:


> Why are you ignoring me? U_U
> 
> Am I not mildly entertaining? U_U



What did you post?


----------



## SubtleObscurantist (Jul 10, 2014)

This is a cluster fuck of epic proportions and I see no conceivable way to come close to accurately analyzing this. It will be necessary to be incredibly selective in analyzing people's capabilities to come up with an assessment here and that will be so reductive that I think it will invariably oversimplify the match, massively skewing it towards whatever one's initial instincts are. (My reason for staying out of cluster fuck matches in general).


----------



## Trojan (Jul 10, 2014)

I got how they can win against our beloved Narudo. 

1- Nagato set up those stuff


2- Narudo take them away.
3- Narudos appear

4- Narudo Vs Narudos 

fair enough...


----------



## ueharakk (Jul 10, 2014)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> This is a cluster fuck of epic proportions and I see no conceivable way to come close to accurately analyzing this. It will be necessary to be incredibly selective in analyzing people's capabilities to come up with an assessment here and that will be so reductive that I think it will invariably oversimplify the match, massively skewing it towards whatever one's initial instincts are. (My reason for staying out of cluster fuck matches in general).



how is this so difficult?  Naruto throws 6 bijuudamarasenshurikens, what can the opposing team possibly do to combat them other than Minato and Obito trying to warp away?


----------



## Ersa (Jul 10, 2014)

Naruto vaporizes everyone on the opposing team with Bijuudama FRS except for Itachi who survives it's with his godly mirror that renders all ninjutsu useless. Naruto then gets cockslashed at 300km/hr.


----------



## Trojan (Jul 10, 2014)

Ersatz said:


> Naruto vaporizes everyone on the opposing team with Bijuudama FRS except for Itachi who survives it's with his godly mirror that renders all ninjutsu useless. Naruto then gets cockslashed at 300km/hr.



you're a disbeliever of itachi's fans' belief, no? 
you should be thrown to the hellfire. 



Kid Narudo was already on par with itachi, and can win more times than not, or it's a tie
as absolute best case scenario for itachi.


----------



## SubtleObscurantist (Jul 10, 2014)

ueharakk said:


> how is this so difficult?  Naruto throws 6 bijuudamarasenshurikens, what can the opposing team possibly do to combat them other than Minato and Obito trying to warp away?



This is an example of what I am talking about. They all touch Obito the minute Naruto raises his hand and he warps them all with him. They all prep their strongest attacks and then reappear on top of him with them all launching them at once. Super charged Bijuudama, CST, thousand Buddha punch, perfect Susano'o sword+Bijuudama spam, nine soul Gedo Mazo dragon, max size Amaterasu. 

See how in this situation you can casually invent scenarios where one side spams attack at the other side who is impotent?


----------



## Trojan (Jul 10, 2014)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> This is an example of what I am talking about. They all touch Obito the minute Naruto raises his hand and he warps them all with him. They all prep their strongest attacks and then reappear on top of him with them all launching them at once. Super charged Bijuudama, CST, thousand Buddha punch, perfect Susano'o sword+Bijuudama spam, nine soul Gedo Mazo dragon, max size Amaterasu.
> 
> See how in this situation you can casually invent scenarios where one side spams attack at the other side who is impotent?



I like how you think. @>@
Normally the teams get underrated because of the Individual characters' powers. Even though even
with small power compare to the superior one, those inferior characters can make big differences. For example,

1- Gaara, Lee, Kakashi, Base Armless Minato. 

they made such a big different against JJ Madara, and because of their effort and plan, Madara got almost fodderstomps. 

2- Naruto and the SA.

even though they were weaker than the Juubi and the uchihas, but that did not stop Lee from fodderstomps Madara with one kick. 

3- BZ.

Even though he is massively weaker than JJ Madara, he still fodderstomps him low difficult.

4- KCM Naruto, EMS Sasuke, Minato, and Tobirama Vs Obito.

and Kishi even tries to make this point clear over and over, and over again. 
When Shika talked about even if the SA are weaker than the big dogs, they still can help.

and now again with Sakura, after all what Sasuke said about them, he won't be saved without them.


That's the reason perhaps to why I usually go with the numbers over someone by himself. Especially
that usually the brain thing, the coincidences, the characters' emotions and other stuffs can be a huge factor in the outcome.


However, Naruto showed such an insane power that's it hard to believe he could lose. 
there is very few options against him, one of which teleport him to the Kamui land, as Kaguya teleported Sasuke, and he won't be able to get out,,,,

but said is easier than done.


----------



## Transcendent Shinobi (Jul 10, 2014)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> This is an example of what I am talking about. They all touch Obito the minute Naruto raises his hand and he warps them all with him. They all prep their strongest attacks and then reappear on top of him with them all launching them at once.* Super charged Bijuudama, CST, thousand Buddha punch, perfect Susano'o sword+Bijuudama spam, nine soul Gedo Mazo dragon, max size Amaterasu. *
> 
> See how in this situation you can casually invent scenarios where one side spams attack at the other side who is impotent?



I agree with most of you saying Naruto is stronger HOWEVER, I think team Hashirama can still kill him because well frankly Naruto is a moron and the intelligence of the opposite team is >>>>>>Naruto's brain and fighting skill

Also the other team isn't as weak as you point out. Sure team hashi doesn't have as many tailed beasts as naruto does but they have 1.5 Kurama's and 6 other tailed beasts...that power alone cancels out all 9 of Naruto's tailed beasts.

That doesn't mean they are stronger then Naruto per say but it means they have more raw power and chakra reserves then Naruto does in his pool of 9 tailed beasts.

Kurama alone per cannon is pretty much stronger then all the other 8 tailed beasts combined due to the fact that 50% kurama could deflect 6 tailed beats bombs...

So team hashi has him beat there. Now its just a matter of his personal chakra and sage powers vs all of hashirama team.

Naruto has the edge but he could still lose by making one mistake.

All's hashi's team has to do is spam all of their tailed beast attacks and mabey a few ultimate attacks and Naruto just lost a ton of his chakra.

It could go either way but way to many of you are saying some of the most powerful characters in the manga are fodder.


----------



## Trojan (Jul 10, 2014)

If the second team has the Bijuus as well, and Nagato's GM...etc
can't they just seal the Bijuus to restore the Juubi, and then seal the juubi in one of them?  

especially if the Bijuus are going to cooperate with them.


----------



## Transcendent Shinobi (Jul 10, 2014)

Hussain said:


> If the second team have the Bijuus as well, and Nagato's GM...etc
> can't they just seal the Bijuus to restore the Juubi, and then seal the juubi in one of them?
> 
> especially if the Bijuus are going to cooperate with them.



lol sure why not


----------



## ueharakk (Jul 10, 2014)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> This is an example of what I am talking about. They all touch Obito the minute Naruto raises his hand and he warps them all with him. They all prep their strongest attacks and then reappear on top of him with them all launching them at once. Super charged Bijuudama, CST, thousand Buddha punch, perfect Susano'o sword+Bijuudama spam, nine soul Gedo Mazo dragon, max size Amaterasu.


...because obito has been shown the ability to warp anything even the size of a bijuu with his kamui...
Because naruto won't sense obito's portal opening and just dodge and then nuke them after their attack misses.
Because naruto doesn't have gudoudamas that erase ninjutsu
because madara didn't blitz minato when he attacked with the far faster ftg warp.





SubtleObscurantist said:


> See how in this situation you can casually invent scenarios where one side spams attack at the other side who is impotent?


Absolutely not, look at what you've just done, you've given obito no limits on his ability to warp and just assume naruto stands there and lets them attack and completely oblivious to their attacks.  While on the otherhand I listed an attack we know naruto is very capable of doing and asked you what they can do while even giving you suggestions on what they could do, I didn't say they just stand there and do nothing I asked you what they could do giving you an attempt to rebut it. That's how discussion works.  If you see something wrong with my own, then call it out 'while naruto does X they'll be doing this or that'.


----------



## Ersa (Jul 10, 2014)

Hussain said:


> you're a disbeliever of itachi's fans' belief, no?
> you should be thrown to the hellfire.
> 
> 
> ...


No one escapes the cockslash.


----------



## trance (Jul 10, 2014)

Six Bijudama Rasenshurikens for six people. 

But seriously, Naruto is so far above these guys. He is _possibly_ the absolute fastest character in the series in terms of pure movement speed. Even if he's not, he's still infinitely faster than any of his opponents.


----------



## SubtleObscurantist (Jul 10, 2014)

ueharakk said:


> ...because obito has been shown the ability to warp anything even the size of a bijuu with his kamui....



Huh? What? He is warping, including himself, six people. It did just occur to me that he couldn't warp Kurama and Madara couldn't summon him in the Kamui dimension but then Madara uses Perfect Susano'o slashes instead which is good enough. 


> Because naruto won't sense obito's portal opening and just dodge and then nuke them after their attack misses.



Dodge all of those massive AOE attacks from point blank range? Sense the portal opening the same way he sensed Kaguya's portal? He (only ever reacted to her after her portals opened next to him) and in any case, he dodges, tries to nuke, and Obito warps folks again. 


> Because naruto doesn't have gudoudamas that erase ninjutsu



Which wouldn't erase perfect Susano'o shockwaves, sage Hasharima's Buddha attacks, possibly CST (don't know if it is just initiated with chakra or contains chakra; I always thought the former), 


> because madara didn't blitz minato when he attacked with the far faster ftg warp.



Intercepted is a better word than blitz. Not a single one of them is attacking from close quarters. It's all ranged attacks. 


> Absolutely not, look at what you've just done, you've given obito no limits on his ability to warp and just assume naruto stands there and lets them attack and completely oblivious to their attacks.  While on the otherhand I listed an attack we know naruto is very capable of doing and asked you what they can do while even giving you suggestions on what they could do, I didn't say they just stand there and do nothing I asked you what they could do giving you an attempt to rebut it. That's how discussion works.  If you see something wrong with my own, then call it out 'while naruto does X they'll be doing this or that'



Failing to recall that other people can hitch a ride with other people's S/T jutsu seems to me such a glaring case of forgetfulness that I don't think it would happen without a clusterfuck match.


----------



## ueharakk (Jul 11, 2014)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> Huh? What? He is warping, including himself, six people. It did just occur to me that he couldn't warp Kurama and Madara couldn't summon him in the Kamui dimension but then Madara uses Perfect Susano'o slashes instead which is good enough.


if people could summon things in the kamui dimension, then it makes obito's fights against naruto and minato completely meaningless as both could simply reverse summon themselves outside of obito's dimension if they were caught.

What implied obito has the capability of warping something as large as a bijuu?  What implied that Obito can warp something as big as PS?



SubtleObscurantist said:


> Dodge all of those massive AOE attacks from point blank range? Sense the portal opening the same way he sensed Kaguya's portal? He (only ever reacted to her after her portals opened next to him) and in any case, he dodges, tries to nuke, and Obito warps folks again.


He does dodge them considering he dodged kaguya's warp, Obito is going to have to warp the constructs out before they attack, and Obito's kamui is going to be massive which takes longer to warp things.

Not only that but how is obito going to warp all 6 of them back into the kamui dimension before naruto can just detonate one of his attacks?  MAssive no limits fallacies and feats given to obito backed up by zero evidence is what your arguments have to assume are true.




SubtleObscurantist said:


> Which wouldn't erase perfect Susano'o shockwaves, sage Hasharima's Buddha attacks, possibly CST (don't know if it is just initiated with chakra or contains chakra; I always thought the former),


It would erase PS's shockwaves and CST as CST produces gravity wave made up of chakra and the onmyouton erased Gai's evening elephant shockwaves. lol @ obito warping shinsuusenjuu in and out of kamui and the shinjuu would only be capable of punching naruto's onmyouton one at a time, massively reducing its DPS.




SubtleObscurantist said:


> Intercepted is a better word than blitz. Not a single one of them is attacking from close quarters. It's all ranged attacks.


....you said that obito is going to warp right behind Naruto.  Sure they are technically using ranged attacks but they are firing them at point blank in CQC.  If they are using ranged attacks instead, that makes it way easier for naruto to dodge as he's fast by kaguya's standards which puts him way ahead of people like juubito.



SubtleObscurantist said:


> Failing to recall that other people can hitch a ride with other people's S/T jutsu seems to me such a glaring case of forgetfulness that I don't think it would happen without a clusterfuck match.


I don't understand what you are trying to say here. Who's forgetting to recall that?  Me, naruto or the other team?

If we look back on our discussion, take into account the massive benefit of the doubt you have to give to team 2, more specifically obito in order for them to merely stand a chance of hitting naruto: Obito has to pull off kamuis magnitudes larger than the largest he's ever done or been implied to do in the manga, over and over again, and quick enough so that naruto, someone who's fast by kaguya's standards can't even detonate one of his counterattack that would end the other team considering how close they are together. 

Being forced to give them such unwarranted powers and abilities in order for them to compete implies that Naruto would win more than not based on the information we have about them.


----------



## ARGUS (Jul 11, 2014)

Itachi solos


----------



## SubtleObscurantist (Jul 11, 2014)

ueharakk said:


> if people could summon things in the kamui dimension, then it makes obito's fights against naruto and minato completely meaningless as both could simply reverse summon themselves outside of obito's dimension if they were caught.
> 
> What implied obito has the capability of warping something as large as a bijuu?  What implied that Obito can warp something as big as PS.



You are providing more evidence that cluster fuck matches fuck with people's heads in every post. I just specifically pointed out that Kurama wouldn't be warped. Nor it is even necessary for them to be warped out either since something like PS is created almost instantly. But it's so very easy to see how Obito could get the ability to warp something that big...the same way Kakashi did. Ie, Minato+Kurama hand off chakra. Also, Hasharima can hand off chakra too. 


> He does dodge them considering he dodged kaguya's warp, Obito is going to have to warp the constructs out before they attack, and Obito's kamui is going to be massive which takes longer to warp things.



Because Kaguya's attack had a massive AOE from a series of massive AOE attacks? Again, it's fucking with your head, because you are trying to use analogies that are inapt and apply to small attacks by one person. 


> Not only that but how is obito going to warp all 6 of them back into the kamui dimension before naruto can just detonate one of his attacks?  MAssive no limits fallacies and feats given to obito backed up by zero evidence is what your arguments have to assume are true.



So dodging far enough out of range to avoid the entire force of their attacks, creating one of his big attacks, throwing it, it reaching and detonating is faster than Obito warping six people? They don't have to take their offenses with them if they are using megazords. 


> It would erase PS's shockwaves and CST as CST produces gravity wave made up of chakra and the onmyouton erased Gai's evening elephant shockwaves. lol @ obito warping shinsuusenjuu in and out of kamui and the shinjuu would only be capable of punching naruto's onmyouton one at a time, massively reducing its DPS.



Why would it erase shockwaves? What is there to say CST is made up of chakra when dojutsu couldn't see Shinra Tensei? And umm, no, wrong, onmyouton didn't erase evening elephant attacks. It blocked them. Just like it blocked senjutsu attacks that weren't strong enough to break the shield. Shinsensuujuu is another instantly created megazord once hasharima's in sage mode so he can just be the last to attack if necessary and I don't see how punching one at a time reduces it's power. That's how the attack work and even though it was rapidly losing hands so it probably didn't get close to a thousand punches in against Madara, it seemed to be pretty powerful. Against a defense that even Onoki's superpowered Jinton was evidently not good enough against. 

Oh, it's worth noting that we don't even know for sure if Naruto uses Onmyouton. It's possible that his are at the same stage as Juubito before he gained full mastery of the Juubi's power. We also don't know if he can/knows how/would think to use the Gedou Dama sphere as defense. I say this because he has never melded Gedou Dama (If I recall), and because of his failures to use them properly. I will ignore all instances of him not using them to get Kaguya off of him because she seems to be able to largely block his powers through contact. But it remains such that he never used them to protect himself or anyone else from the lava (despite how crazy fast the Juubi Jins could make them move) up until loaning one to Sasuke for a platform after Sasuke dropped towards the lava and got saved by means other than Gedou Dama for the third time. He didn't expand them into different shapes to help carve up the ice when he and Sasuke were trapped. And he didn't expand them very much to block Kaguya's giant chakra fists. 

I raise these points only to suggest that it is also "giving Naruto feats" that he has't demonstrated to have him use Gedou Dama properly to defend himself.  


> ....you said that obito is going to warp right behind Naruto.  Sure they are technically using ranged attacks but they are firing them at point blank in CQC.  If they are using ranged attacks instead, that makes it way easier for naruto to dodge as he's fast by kaguya's standards which puts him way ahead of people like juubito.



...What on earth makes you think Kaguya is faster than Juubito, much less by much? (Heck, it was never even stated that Naruto is faster than Kaguya, just fast enough to be a problem in regards to speed) Of all of Kaguya's powers, there is no indication of physical superiority over the Juubi Jins. Also I meant point blank in relative terms. Relative to the attacks being used. Obviously it wouldn't even make sense to have shinsenjuu appear at point blank closer quarters because the arms would have to bend inwards to attack. 
If we look back on our discussion, take into account the massive benefit of the doubt you have to give to team 2, more specifically obito in order for them to merely stand a chance of hitting naruto: 





> Obito has to pull off kamuis magnitudes larger than the largest he's ever done



No he doesn't, megazords can be created after if necessary because they are fast up. 


> or been implied to do in the manga,



But chakra boosts from the chakra givers on his team make super sized Kamui possible. But that's hard to remember if you are only thinking about one person at a time, which is what you are doing (and it's why you are getting so many things wrong). 


> over and over again,



Or possibly once in/once out.


> and quick enough so that naruto, someone who's fast by kaguya's standards can't even detonate one of his counterattack that would end the other team considering how close they are together


. 

He detonates one of his big attacks on top of himself, that's suicide. Even if he could block with Onmyouton, his own attacks wouldn't be erased and are powerful enough that they ought to break down such a defense. YRS might do since it only detonates like a disk but he would have to sense them, create the YRS, and detonate it all before their attacks reached him when the first thing they are doing is launching whatever attacks they have ready.


ueharakk said:


> Being forced to give them such unwarranted powers and abilities in order for them to compete implies that Naruto would win more than not based on the information we have about them.



But that's your problem. If assessed individually, I am giving them these powers. But together, Obito can ensure their transport. With Kurama and possibly Hasharima's chakra (and the seven Bijuu Gedo Mazo, possibly, even, since he has drawn upon it's power before such as when he broke out of the cave ) it's entirely feasible that Obito could duplicate or more than duplicate Kakashi's Bijuu pot trick (and Gyuki did emerge directly from Kakashi's eye rather than by remote portal so he pulled it off as Obito would). The combined AOE and power of their attacks is not the same as if he was dealing with their attacks one by one. You take them not working together and it's little better than each facing him individually, which is a slaughter not worth mentioning...but this way?

Oh and I just realized something. Rinnegan Obito and/or Nagato should have access to the Gedo Mazo with everything up until Kinkaku and Ginkaku's Kurama chakra sealed. All the rest was sealed before the war and that was Rinnegan Obito's rightful power. Honestly, you could just have Obito take Kurama out of Minato in Kamui dimension and seal it into Gedo Mazo to create the Juubi and have Obito becomes it's Jinchuuruki. If he possesses Fuuinjutsu Kyuuin, which is implied in his mastery of the Rinnegan if never shown, he could absorb some of Hasharima's sage power first to give him greater mastery of the Juubi's power. Once he does this, all chakra issues with giant Kamuis are solved. And he could transport to a location with soil to create the Juubi flower tree (if it needs soil, if not, Kamui dimension will do) and then when it is charged bring it out with the other attacks (or by itself) for a super-ultra attack. Or since he demonstrated that as a Juubi Jin he could spit out the Juubi's form he could have that form just use a singular such attack so it's not in all directions.

Seeing what combinations people could pull off together is how you think about these battles. And it's weird. But that's what you aren't doing. You have the combatants standing there together but otherwise fighting and dying by their own abilities individually. For instance, with Kurama chakra boosts or with Hasharima's, Madara might be able to expand his perfect Susano'o to wrap around Shinsenjuu and then it would get senjutsu properties like Sasuke's did when wrapped out Naruto's senjutsu Kurama avatar (even with Juugo aid). If Shinsenjuu is too weak, Kurama chakra boost for him too, perhaps. Or imagine Nagato's CST with Kurama boost, Hasharima boost, seven Bijuu Gedo Mazo boost. Heck, maybe it's better to make him the Juubi Jin so he can use the version of that attack which he intended to create peace that would wipe out countries in an instant.


----------



## ueharakk (Jul 11, 2014)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> You are providing more evidence that cluster fuck matches fuck with people's heads in every post. I just specifically pointed out that Kurama wouldn't be warped. Nor it is even necessary for them to be warped out either since something like PS is created almost instantly. But it's so very easy to see how Obito could get the ability to warp something that big...the same way Kakashi did. Ie, Minato+Kurama hand off chakra. Also, Hasharima can hand off chakra too.


minato + Kurama can't hand off chakra, only naruto could do that due to being a jinchuriki for years and having kushina's blood.  Hashirama handed all of his chakra to sasuke and it didn't do anything.
PS is also not formed instantly, we've seen madara has to make the massive V4 first and then stabalize it before being able to start slashing, he's going to pop out of kamui and hit naruto with that before naruto gets far away or ends them all with a bijuudamarasenshuriken?



SubtleObscurantist said:


> Because Kaguya's attack had a massive AOE from a series of massive AOE attacks? Again, it's fucking with your head, because you are trying to use analogies that are inapt and apply to small attacks by one person.


what massive AoE attack can be used instantly?  Bijuudamas need to hit something in order to explode, shinsuusenjuu isn't getting warped or created in midair, PS takes time to form, stabalize and slash, the only thing I can think of is nagato's CST, but that just gets blocked by the gudoudamas while the real ends the warped 6 with a bijuudama rasenshuriken or a clone ends them with youton rasenshuriken.



SubtleObscurantist said:


> So dodging far enough out of range to avoid the entire force of their attacks, creating one of his big attacks, throwing it, it reaching and detonating is faster than Obito warping six people? They don't have to take their offenses with them if they are using megazords.


Again, the only attack that is used faster than naruto can create and throw a bijuurasenshuriken is CST and that gets blocked by gudoudamas.  Even if the real naruto plays on the complete defensive, he could have clones end them all with youton rasenshuriken.



SubtleObscurantist said:


> Why would it erase shockwaves? What is there to say CST is made up of chakra when dojutsu couldn't see Shinra Tensei? And umm, no, wrong, onmyouton didn't erase evening elephant attacks. It blocked them. Just like it blocked senjutsu attacks that weren't strong enough to break the shield. Shinsensuujuu is another instantly created megazord once hasharima's in sage mode so he can just be the last to attack if necessary and I don't see how punching one at a time reduces it's power. That's how the attack work and even though it was rapidly losing hands so it probably didn't get close to a thousand punches in against Madara, it seemed to be pretty powerful. Against a defense that even Onoki's superpowered Jinton was evidently not good enough against.


What says doujutsu couldn't see shinra tensei?  onmyouton did erase evening elephants attack, you can clearly see it *ate through the part that it makes contact with while the rest continued* *we see that for all the EE strikes that come into contact with it.* If it just hit onmyouton like a normal object, *we would have seen onmyouton show signs of damage, emit black stuff,* and we'd have seen Madara get sent flying back like he did the first time he blocked EE with his arms.  Onmyouton shield received zero damage when it took the explosion of the quad super juubidama and a single gudoudama *ate through raw earth like nothing when it expanded*, shockwaves are just inflicting damage via air particles I don't see why those wouldn't get erased.

Hashirama needs the ground in order to create shinsuusenjuu and his massive mokutons, being only able to punch one at a time will obviously drastically lower the output vs being able to use tons of punches at a time.  Plus, shinsuusenjuu wouldn't beat naruto, he already took kaguya's chakra punches without any damage, at best a punch would send him far away, and then he or his clones end shinsuusenjuu with YRS or bijuurasenshuriken unless obito warps hashi away.  Most likely what will happen is naruto blocks with his shield destroys the entire lot of them before his shield breaks with YRS/Bijuudama rasenshuriken.



SubtleObscurantist said:


> Oh, it's worth noting that we don't even know for sure if Naruto uses Onmyouton. It's possible that his are at the same stage as Juubito before he gained full mastery of the Juubi's power. We also don't know if he can/knows how/would think to use the Gedou Dama sphere as defense. I say this because he has never melded Gedou Dama (If I recall), and because of his failures to use them properly. I will ignore all instances of him not using them to get Kaguya off of him because she seems to be able to largely block his powers through contact. But it remains such that he never used them to protect himself or anyone else from the lava (despite how crazy fast the Juubi Jins could make them move) up until loaning one to Sasuke for a platform after Sasuke dropped towards the lava and got saved by means other than Gedou Dama for the third time. He didn't expand them into different shapes to help carve up the ice when he and Sasuke were trapped. And he didn't expand them very much to block Kaguya's giant chakra fists.


absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.  Unless you have some positive argument as to why he couldn't use them that way, then there is no evidence that he couldn't.  



SubtleObscurantist said:


> I raise these points only to suggest that it is also "giving Naruto feats" that he has't demonstrated to have him use Gedou Dama properly to defend himself.


I never said it was wrong to give people feats, i was against giving people feats that the manga heavily implied that are incapable of doing and would be a radical extrapolation of their implied abilities.



SubtleObscurantist said:


> ...What on earth makes you think Kaguya is faster than Juubito, much less by much? (Heck, it was never even stated that Naruto is faster than Kaguya, just fast enough to be a problem in regards to speed) Of all of Kaguya's powers, there is no indication of physical superiority over the Juubi Jins.


....are you serious?  Are you arguing that Juubito is as fast as kaguya?  Sasuke's faster than JJ MAdara who's at least powerful as JJ obito.  Kaguya has incomparably more chakra than Madara and she doesn't call Sasuke fast, rather she calls Naruto fast.  Now if you believe kaguya = juubito in speed, please give me an argument.



SubtleObscurantist said:


> Also I meant point blank in relative terms. Relative to the attacks being used. Obviously it wouldn't even make sense to have shinsenjuu appear at point blank closer quarters because the arms would have to bend inwards to attack.


....then wouldn't that mean naruto has lots of time to react to the warp?



SubtleObscurantist said:


> No he doesn't, megazords can be created after if necessary because they are fast up.


*not faster than naruto can create and throw a bijuudama rasenshuriken....* or get away from them, or have a clone throw a youton.
and that's assuming naruto doesn't even think that obito isn't going to try and warp back in order to attack.



SubtleObscurantist said:


> But chakra boosts from the chakra givers on his team make super sized Kamui possible. But that's hard to remember if you are only thinking about one person at a time, which is what you are doing (and it's why you are getting so many things wrong).


....minato can't give the V1 cloak, it's not even clear if kurama can give chakra through him since he hasn't been a jink all his life, and at the very best that means a bijuu-sized kamui.  Hashirama's given 'his chakra' to people, but that doesn't mean they can actually use it as kurama explained the chakra given has to be manipulated in order to match the person's chakra type.

And i'm absolutely not thinking about this one person at a time, my entire evalutation has been about all of them attacking at once with the best they can throw that their abilities allow while Naruto just stands there and waits for them to warp back without prepping anything on his own.



SubtleObscurantist said:


> Or possibly once in/once out.


'possibly' as in occuring once given an infinite amount of tries? maybe if naruto suddenly got a heart attack or something.  Probably?  More likely than not?  not with naruto's reactions, not with the speed of his attacks, his durability and the amount of prep it takes the other team to pull off theirs.



SubtleObscurantist said:


> He detonates one of his big attacks on top of himself, that's suicide. Even if he could block with Onmyouton, his own attacks wouldn't be erased and are powerful enough that they ought to break down such a defense. YRS might do since it only detonates like a disk but he would have to sense them, create the YRS, and detonate it all before their attacks reached him when the first thing they are doing is launching whatever attacks they have ready.


his own attack would be erased if he doesn't use enhance it with senjutsu.

NAruto easily launches his YRS *which requires almost no prep time* when he immediately senses the kamui dimension opening up and the opponents have to first create their giant megazords, then prep there attacks and then fire those attacks.


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## ueharakk (Jul 11, 2014)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> But that's your problem. If assessed individually, I am giving them these powers. But together, Obito can ensure their transport. With Kurama and possibly Hasharima's chakra (and the seven Bijuu Gedo Mazo, possibly, even, since he has drawn upon it's power before such as when he broke out of the cave ) it's entirely feasible that Obito could duplicate or more than duplicate Kakashi's Bijuu pot trick (and Gyuki did emerge directly from Kakashi's eye rather than by remote portal so he pulled it off as Obito would). The combined AOE and power of their attacks is not the same as if he was dealing with their attacks one by one. You take them not working together and it's little better than each facing him individually, which is a slaughter not worth mentioning...but this way?


I'm taking them as working together, however I'm assessing their individual abilities that they'd be using in order to see what they would be able to accomplish while working together.  Other than that I have no idea 



SubtleObscurantist said:


> Oh and I just realized something. Rinnegan Obito and/or Nagato should have access to the Gedo Mazo with everything up until Kinkaku and Ginkaku's Kurama chakra sealed. All the rest was sealed before the war and that was Rinnegan Obito's rightful power. Honestly, you could just have Obito take Kurama out of Minato in Kamui dimension and seal it into Gedo Mazo to create the Juubi and have Obito becomes it's Jinchuuruki. If he possesses Fuuinjutsu Kyuuin, which is implied in his mastery of the Rinnegan if never shown, he could absorb some of Hasharima's sage power first to give him greater mastery of the Juubi's power. Once he does this, all chakra issues with giant Kamuis are solved. And he could transport to a location with soil to create the Juubi flower tree (if it needs soil, if not, Kamui dimension will do) and then when it is charged bring it out with the other attacks (or by itself) for a super-ultra attack. Or since he demonstrated that as a Juubi Jin he could spit out the Juubi's form he could have that form just use a singular such attack so it's not in all directions.


....but how are they going to get gedou mazou into the kamui dimension before naruto nukes them?  Juubi's flower tree dama gets blocked by gudou damas while the explosion kills the rest of juubito's team besides juubito.  From there it's just naruto and juubito and naruto wrecks him.



SubtleObscurantist said:


> Seeing what combinations people could pull off together is how you think about these battles. And it's weird. But that's what you aren't doing. You have the combatants standing there together but otherwise fighting and dying by their own abilities individually. For instance, with Kurama chakra boosts or with Hasharima's, Madara might be able to expand his perfect Susano'o to wrap around Shinsenjuu and then it would get senjutsu properties like Sasuke's did when wrapped out Naruto's senjutsu Kurama avatar (even with Juugo aid). If Shinsenjuu is too weak, Kurama chakra boost for him too, perhaps. Or imagine Nagato's CST with Kurama boost, Hasharima boost, seven Bijuu Gedo Mazo boost. Heck, maybe it's better to make him the Juubi Jin so he can use the version of that attack which he intended to create peace that would wipe out countries in an instant.


You keep on asserting that i'm thinking of this as individual fights or not taking into account the combinations, but that's what i've been doing this entire time: replying to whatever combinations you bring up.  If Madara gets so amped from kurama's chakra that he could expand his PS around something as large as shinsuusenjuu, then what does that say about EMS Sasukes who had the V1 cloak around him and got powered directly from BSM Naruto later?  But that point is moot since minato can't give chakra, and hashirama's chakra hasn't shown to be capable of being used to power sasuke's techniques.

CST doesn't even have enormous offensive power against a single target, that's why tsunade survived it after giving all her chakra to katsuya in order to protect everyone from the hit.  It's one of those massive AoE attacks like bee's whirlwind or the juubi's tenpen chii.


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## Jagger (Jul 12, 2014)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> Nope, I said that naruto is equal to those who have replicated indras full power. Madara and sasuke are these people.


But Madara never replicated Indra's full power or, at least, to the extent Sasuke ever did.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 12, 2014)

Jagger said:


> But Madara never replicated Indra's full power or, at least, to the extent Sasuke ever did.


Indra's full power seems to be the Red Rinnegan, something Madara never achieved. 

Shinobi no Kami, again: since Naruto is fighting Kaguya one on one, equaled her power once, and overpowered her physically, you think Madara or Hashirama could do the same? Seriously?


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## αce (Jul 12, 2014)

What the fuck is a red rinnegan? 

Indra's spiral pattern is his mangekyou. Sasuke and Madara both reached Indra's full power once they achieved the eternal mangekyou sharingan. They both surpassed it when they got the rinnegan.


The reason that shinobi no kami is wrong is because Naruto is far beyond what Ashura was and therefore is also beyond Indra's full power. He has 9 bijuu at his disposal. Sasuke is also above Indra because he has a rinnegan.





Also, I fail to see how Naruto loses this. In his base he has an ability that could kill anyone on that team.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 12, 2014)

αce said:


> What the fuck is a red rinnegan?
> 
> Indra's spiral pattern is his mangekyou. Sasuke and Madara both reached Indra's full power once they achieved the eternal mangekyou sharingan. They both surpassed it when they got the rinnegan.
> 
> ...


Sasuke's Rinnegan is officially colored red, which is why I called it 'Red Rinnegan'. And for all we know, Indra DID achieve that form.


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## Jagger (Jul 12, 2014)

αce said:


> What the fuck is a red rinnegan?


If I remember correctly, the Juubi's eye is red according to one of Kishimoto's covers and Hagoromo's third eye is red as well.


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## Elite Uchiha (Jul 12, 2014)

Cognitios said:


> I am aware, but considering your dramatic exit I thought that'd you'd stay gone, for at least longer than a  month. Just some friendly advice, don't say the forum is wasting your time and make a dramatic website and call this place a joke if your going to crawl back less than a month latter and then make rape threads.



Please aware me 

On topic, Minato's sperm cell wins mid difficulty.


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## Trojan (Jul 12, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Indra's full power seems to be the Red Rinnegan, something Madara never achieved.
> 
> Shinobi no Kami, again: since Naruto is fighting Kaguya one on one, equaled her power once, and overpowered her physically, you think Madara or Hashirama could do the same? Seriously?



to be fair though Kaguya was not planning to kill Naruto or Sasuke. The moment she planned to do so, well, you saw what happened.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 12, 2014)

Hussain said:


> to be fair though Kaguya was not planning to kill Naruto or Sasuke. The moment she planned to do so, well, you saw what happened.


You mean got punked by a Bushin Feint?


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## Jagger (Jul 12, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> You mean got punked by a Bushin Feint?


It doesn't change the fact Kaguya effortlessly beat one of his clones. There's a reason of why they're trying to bring Sasuke back.

They need each other to beat her, they can't do it alone. Kishimoto portrayed it to be in that way.


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## KnightGhost (Jul 12, 2014)

Why are DBZ fans in the naruto section?

Anyway naruto is obliterated 

This is the definition of overhype naruto is strong but this is outta control  stuff im seeing he is not god lvl if not for sasuke he would be under  tsukuyomi along with hinata.


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## Trojan (Jul 12, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> You mean got punked by a Bushin Feint?



I have my doubts about him being a clone.


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## ueharakk (Jul 12, 2014)

Hussain said:


> to be fair though Kaguya was not planning to kill Naruto or Sasuke. The moment she planned to do so, well, you saw what happened.



but naruto and sasuke aren't planning to kill here either....


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## StickaStick (Jul 12, 2014)

If Kaguya had any battle instinct whatsoever Naruto and Sauce would both have been drained and dead by now. Instead, she's taking orders from BZ


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## Trojan (Jul 12, 2014)

ueharakk said:


> but naruto and sasuke aren't planning to kill here either....



Because they can't and that's why they want to seal her. 
and as Naruto stated his other jutsus are all useless since she will only absorbed them.

She could have fodderstompped both of them when she teleported behind them...


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## Nikushimi (Jul 12, 2014)

Itachi solos.

Once Naruto gets within range and attempts to use Reverse Harem as a distraction, Itachi will hit him with Tsukuyomi and kill him instantly.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Jul 14, 2014)

Jagger said:


> >Hasn't shown a chakra construct.
> 
> Wait, why would he need to show one in order to prove he has one? He does have Kurama's chakra inside of him and that's more than necessary to prove he has one.


Because this is the battledome....You know, a "SHOW ME" section of the board.

Naruto has yet manifest a chakara construct, and BD only uses actual feats not theories.



> One of Naruto's attacks was capable of matching the firepower shown by Perfect Susano'O, that much was shown when he cut the God Tree (something equally as big or bigger than the mountains cut by Madara) and when the explosion of his Bijuudama dwarfed the size of Sasuke's Perfect Susano'O, who should be, logically, stronger than Madara's.


Oh baby boy. 

It's not about the power of Perfect Susano'o(Especially Sasuke's) 
It's MOBILITY AND PROTECTION. Is this a bout? Doesn't one have to attack and DEFEND? You're comparing their offensive capabilities which isn't what I'm questioning. It's Naruto's ability to defend against oncoming attacks. If Flight is Naruto's only defense, then one needs to question his flight speed. One needs to question how he plans on dealing with several TOWER SIZED offenses on the other side. 

In this scenario Naruto has multiple threats which can hurt/kill him if he drops the ball. I don't see how Naruto wins this, as his current clones haven't proven as broken has the previous incarnations.(Less chakara than sakura) 



> Naruto utterly destroys them.
> 
> I don't know how anyone can say otherwise.


Yet no explanation on your part is given....


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## IpHr0z3nI (Jul 14, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Current Naruto uses Kakiri Musou to increase his strength to the point where he can overwhelm Kaguya then uses Tayju Kage Bushin no Jutsu to make 1000 clones to fight the team, and finally all of them use Bijudama Rasenshuriken. The opposition are completely wiped off the map. Hell the latter isn't needed with the flying, Rikudo Senjutsu clones enhanced by Kakiri Musou.



Overwhelm Kaguya, A? Where? Naruto didn't even get a hit in this chapter. Secondly Kaguya's OFFENSIVE OPTIONS ARE MUCH, MUCH DIFFERENT than what the opposing team has in their stable.

Kaguya couldn't do much in this situation, but pain

Kaguya path to power is HAX...
The individuals that Naruto is facing in this set up possess HAX, RAW POWER, CHAKARA ABSORPTION, etc. How is Naruto going to wipe anything of the map when Nagato can absorb it, and Minato can warp it? And where oh where are you getting 1000 clones + 1000 Bijudama's from? Did you read the chapter? They were stuck using taijutsu, as such against Madara's Limbo clones. So what footage are you using to support your assessment. 

Naruto gets bodied this match and your explanation validates it. You can't even stick to the script.(Typical Naruto fans) This is a body, both from the opposing team and Iphr0z3nI.


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