# What would it take for Anybody to redeem themselves in this manga?



## Kuromaku (Apr 1, 2010)

*What Would It Take For Sakura to Redeem Herself?*

I admit, I'm not one to talk about criticizing the poor girl, what with having bashed her in the past and lurking around the Anti FC--but at this point, I really feel sorry for the poor thing.

After acting as a paragon of uselessness throughout Part I as nothing more than a useless wannabe ninja/shallow love interest for a guy who wasn't interested, she tried to turn a new leaf.

When the first arc of Part II rolled around she quickly made an impression upon readers as Tsunade's heir apparent.  Then the fight with Sasori came up and she proved herself as something special, quickly finding an antidote to Sasori's poison and playing a vital role in the battle with Akatsuki's puppet master.  This arc told readers that they wouldn't have to put up with any of her old antics and instead would get a strong female lead.

The rest is history.

Mocking the girl became a favored past time in this section, with a variety of nicknames, hate threads (some of which I contributed to), and a bevy of other things that told people exactly how much she'd come to suck.

I could go on, but it would require too much work, so all I ask is this--what would it take to redeem Sakura?  What would it take for people to get off her back, because at this point, making fun of the poor girl is old hat.  I might as well steal candy from a baby, no wait that's harder than it sounds because those fuckers have kung fu grips beat up a brain damaged quadripalegic.  It's just that easy.

What would it take for me to actually have a challenge when insulting her?  What could happen that would make all Sakura haters reluctantly respect her?

Discuss.


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## The Boss (Apr 1, 2010)

She will never redeem herself in my eyes no matter what she does.


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## zuul (Apr 1, 2010)

It's too late. 

If only she would stop with her disgusting patronizing attitude (one who sucks shouldn't look down on people), and at least have to face the consequence of her acts (which has never ever happened, Sakura's last BS though deserving martial court were brushed off with comical relief). And please Kishi stop sugar coating her BS as if she was the bestest thing ever.


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## Setas1999 (Apr 1, 2010)

Narusaku.
for reall?maybe suicide


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## Temp_Position (Apr 1, 2010)

I think she would be redeemable if she stayed out of fighting in general. I would really respect her if I see her heal a lot of people and if she actually saved someone who is important. I respect her the most as a medical nin.

As a doctor, I dont care if she sucks as a human being because shes the one saving lives. Thats something either Naruto or Sasuke cant say they can do. I wish we could see more panels of her being a healer than a fighter.


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## Wez ★ (Apr 1, 2010)

If she just did us all a favour and killed herself, I would have a lot of respect for her...


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## Tsukiyomi (Apr 1, 2010)

At this point?  Take down all the villains by herself.


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## Smokahontas (Apr 1, 2010)

I think Sakura would only be redeemed or not not, according to the reader's perspective. I mean, if the reader will hate Sakura because of pairing issues, then Sakura is not redeemed for them. If Sakura will be a model, or the one who suite to their own likings, then, she is redeemed, without any doubt.
But as you have noticed, the reader must understand, Sakura's own characteristics, and character development.


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## jmancometh777 (Apr 1, 2010)

i am a fan of sakuras...some people hate her becuase she is not on naruto's or sasuke's league, but thats because she never recieved any real training until the end of part 1. naruto had ebisu for a while and then jiraiya who immediately taught him how to control the kyuubi to an extent as well as summoning toads. sasuke had kakashi who taught him how to use the sharingan better as well as the chidori. sakura had no one to train her. she has become an excellent medical nin, and without her kankorou would be dead, and inadvertenly gaara would be dead, because if sakura had not been there with chiyo, sasori would have killed chiyo and gaara would have not been revived to life by chiyo's jutsu.

in the end, there are only 2 things that sakura needs to reedem herself:


1. Hope to hell that kishi gives her the recognition she deserves.

2. A miracle....(kishi has pushed sakura to the ground and has continued to kick her character around...)


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## Riyue (Apr 1, 2010)

What would Sakura have to do in order to redeem herself?

 Interesting...

In my eyes, Sakura is selfish, kind of shallow, and... a flat-chest.  But I don't TOTALLY hate her. So... I guess if she could bring Sasuke back for Naruto, to make up for all the nasty things she's done to him... then yeah, I guess people would at least have _some_ sort of respect towards her. Maaaaaybeeee...

But, I suppose it all depends on the raw Sakura-haters.


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## James Bond (Apr 1, 2010)

Maybe now Tsunades back she can get some training cause she fucking sucks.


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## Gottheim (Apr 1, 2010)

Seriously? Letting go of her emotionally unstable, patronizing and self-absorbed attitude would be a great start. You know something's wrong with a girl (or anyone, for that matter) when they somehow don't notice a guy has feelings for her despite over 400 chapters of hanging around him. By comparison, even Sasuke (who isn't exactly a model of sanity, sympathetic behavior and altruism) could figure people's feelings out. He just didn't care.

Trying to find a way to catch up to her teammates in terms of clout would help a lot too. She doesn't have to turn into the second coming of Rikudou Sennin overnight, but putting those much-lauded genjutsu skills and superior intelligence to actual use would do wonders for her as a character.


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## AceBizzle (Apr 1, 2010)

As a Kunoichi, she won't ever redeem herself.  Kishi has sinked that boat.  I can't see in any shape or form of Sakura taking out another top-level ninja without some PIS, PNJ, or w/e term you want to add in it.  People are still crapping on Sasori because he got beat by Chiyo with Sakura's help.

For me...as a true Sakura hater...she can redeem herself as a person if someone finally blasts Sakura and at least get her to reconsider her attitude and thought process...the major problem is that Kishi sorta blows everything Sakura AND Naruto do that is extremely foolish off as a joke or irrelevant.


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## Cyphon (Apr 1, 2010)

I think it is pretty much over for her and she has kind of resigned herself to such mediocrity. TBH she really shouldn't even be a ninja. She seems more suited to remaining in Konoha and running the hospital or something and perfecting her craft there.

Maybe work on poison development and antidote development and all that good stuff. 

She is simply not meant for the battlefield and I don't see that ever changing. 

Death would also suit her quite well.


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## toriyama (Apr 1, 2010)

I seriously don't know if she can redeem after this. She's quite a pairing fodder, but she did a terrible thing in that criteria. 

1.)The confession, that was not a nice thing to do. She hurt the guy, who was always there for her. If she was smart enough she could have thought of another way. I seriously don't understand whats in her head. 

2.)After the sasori fight (ex. hearing Sasuke got in Akatsuki), she pretty much cries all the time, leans on Naruto or I should say "uses him".

3.)While Naruto was training what was she doing? She was looking at a picture of team 7 and crying. Didn't she just say, "Crying doesn't bring Sasuke back. I'll be strong too" to Naruto? She just say things and doesn't take action.

4.)The recent chapter confirmed that she will stay that way. As a cheerleader. 

I don't hate Sakura, but I think her character is very poorly written. It's almost unbelievable for a main heroine to be written like this.
And just how many times does she have to hurt Naruto?? She breaks the heart of the poor guy countless times. To be honest, I find her "cruel" at times.

If Kishi can redeem her after this point, then I'll admit he's GOD.


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## santanico (Apr 1, 2010)

There's no way for her to redeem herself, imo.


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## motto (Apr 1, 2010)

Butsex.


(check out who contributed with that definition)


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## Lord of Mikawa (Apr 1, 2010)

She could do the following:
1. Kill Sasuke or Naruto
2. Kill Tsunade
3. Become Hokage


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## Zabuza (Apr 1, 2010)

Kill herself.


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## Saunion (Apr 1, 2010)

She's completely irredeemable. That last arc destroyed her character beyond repair. I wouldn't be surprised if she had no role whatsoever until the end of the manga where she'd be the one to welcome Sasuke back with open legs. Pairing fodder at the start, pairing fodder at the end. That'd be fitting.


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## VioNi (Apr 1, 2010)

At this point in the manga... I don't think it's possible. Even if she did become badass or something and start wrecking people, the emotional distress and drama she brings will always hang over her. The only thing Kishi can do for her is let her heal people and cheer for Naruto. Whenever he does otherwise, it makes her look bad. Poor thing, but hey, it's Kishi's fault.


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## HikariYume (Apr 1, 2010)

It's too late. Her character has reduced to oblivion.

~All she's done since the 'Save Gaara' arc is cry. 
~Her confession was digusting. It goes to show how shallow she is.
~Didn't she say she would get stronger because crying wouldn't bring Sasuke back? Um...If you say you're gonna do something, it's probably a good thing to actually do it...just sayin
~Wait a minute...she's supposed to be the main heroine isn't she? Uh...What the hell is going on? Last time I checked, the main heroine is supposed to BE a HEROINE not TRY to be a heroine (as shown in recent chapters) 

At this point, even if she killed herself, it wouldn't be enough. Her character has decayed into utter obliteration. It can't be helped.


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## Merellis (Apr 1, 2010)

Just go punch Sasuke in the face, there, she's redeemed.

I don't care if she beats Sasuke, he gets up and beats her, or if that starts a strange conversation of Sasuke asking Naruto how the hell he keeps living through those punches. I just want Sakura to punch him in the face. JUST ONE DAMN PUNCH.


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## Gary (Apr 1, 2010)

I feel it's to late after she admitted, she can just watch them fight.
God damn, what a weak move.


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## Amrun (Apr 1, 2010)

She could certainly redeem herself in my eyes (FORUM IS SURPRISED :amazed), but there is no redeeming her in the overall view of this forum.  It just won't happen, no matter what.  Anything she does is now coloured by that hate.

For me, I want her to acknowledge her mistakes, call Sai out for bullshit, call Kakashi out for bullshit, call _Naruto_ out for bullshit, and realize what a pussy she's been, especially with this, "Oh, I can't do anything so I just WON'T TRY" attitude she's adopted recently....


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## Totalabsolute (Apr 1, 2010)

She is far gone.. her character has been written poorly... Nothin can save this poor girl...I actually feel sorry for her........ Not


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## Temp_Position (Apr 1, 2010)

To be redeemable, she just needs to accentuate her strengths more than her weaknesses by proving herself useful. If she just stays in the hospital, than I dont care what type of person she is, at least she's doing something that she's good at. She sucks as a shinobi, but she excels as a doctor. When someone is dying, no one cares if you have a terrible personality. They only care if you can save there life. I dont think its too late for her. People liked her when she healed Kankuro right?

Other than that, she can redeem herself through good actions, but her personality is irredeemable.


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## Proxy (Apr 1, 2010)

Maybe someone said it, but dying would be a start.


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## Lelouch71 (Apr 1, 2010)

I don't know what she can do. The last arc shot her credibility straight to hell.


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## Sharingan-Uchiha (Apr 1, 2010)

hmm... tough one, maybe to pick up a kunai and slit her own throat


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## BrightlyGoob (Apr 1, 2010)

Truth to be told, I think she's had a lot of glory already, comparing her to every other person of the Konoha 12. But even so, I understand that it's about her recent role. Anyway, I know for a  fact that she's gonna do yet another big thing -- one that will add more chaos to her fanbase & haters.


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## Aazadan (Apr 1, 2010)

Nothing.

She can pull off an amazing feat like some miraculous healing technique or even beating someone strong but all that means is she was able to help someone, her character itself is still damaged beyond all repair.  She may have been redeemable until the past few chapters, but no more.  Between the fake confession to mindfuck Naruto, betraying her own team, and deciding to go back on her old vow of getting strong to help Naruto retrieve Sasuke and instead letting him do all the work... what's left for her really?  She became a traitor (with no consequences somehow), turned her back on years of dedication towards a goal seemingly on a whim, broke the one promise she made to herself and others, and decided to mindfuck her own team for the hell of it.

The best thing that could happen to her character at this point is to just disappear for a few hundred chapters (or until the end of the manga) with no explanation like Anko did.

Oh and while I'm thinking of it, Kakashi's definition of being worse than trash is those who don't take care of their own team.  Based on the last arc I think this means she's worse than trash.


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## Toreno (Apr 1, 2010)

Nothing.


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## Judecious (Apr 1, 2010)

idk just as long as she is useful


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## Skeith (Apr 1, 2010)

Stay in the Hostial and maybe become a Doctor.

Also, have a talk with Hinata. 

....they really need a talk.


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## Zetamancer (Apr 1, 2010)

Irredeemable. She has always been a bitch, and no matter what her fans say she still is. She hasn't changed. Her tactics reek of self-interest. She didn't lie to Naruto to keep him from harm, she lied because she felt she needed to go it alone because she was guilty. She was acting to satisfy her own negative feelings.


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## LordUchiha (Apr 1, 2010)

Grow bigger tits and beat another high calibur villain. That'd be enough in my book. Oh and stop fucking crying!!!


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## Turrin (Apr 1, 2010)

Her training and becoming an actual effective member of Team 7, however i honestly don't expect that this late in the story line as her peers Naruto and Sasuke are far to ahead of her in strength for her ever to shine alongside them as Kishi should have made her do so from the start of the manga.

So rather then her redeeming herself via her Strength or Being a flashy cool Ninja its probably going to come down to her actions and her reasons at the end of the manga for ending up with which ever pairing she ends up with if any.

Thus the way i really see Sakura redeeming her self is by maturing as a human being in terms of her reasons for loving some one. With that Said she probably would be redeemed in my eyes if she finally realized that her love for Sasuke was incredibly shallow and that she loves Naruto for far more deep reasons. With her telling off Sasuke for all that he has put her and Naruto through and so on. That would be the best way for her to be redeemed as a character.

However there are other ways she could be redeemed like Kishimoto giving Sakura a more in depth back story explaining why she loves Sasuke so much and with her actually getting out there and doing something to get Sasuke back w/o resting her hopes and dreams on Naruto's shoulders. 

Hell She really doesn't need to end up with ether one of them the two major things that need to happen to redeem her character in my eyes are

1)She Ether needs to realize her love for Sasuke is Shallow and let go of it by maturing as a character or Kishimoto needs to give her a detailed back story depicting why her love for Sasuke is not Shallow(It would have to be a hell of a good one)

2)She Needs to Acknowledge Naruto's feelings in a more realistic way(No fake confession BS) and give him a thoughtful response. Of course it would be more touching if she realized she was in love with him, but even if she didn't, as long as she explains it in a thoughtful manner it should redeem her character some what.

If She accomplish these two things she will be redeemed. Still not an amazing character with a huge fan base i expect, but she will be redeemed and not nearly as hate by fans of the manga. Though the only way i see her actually becoming a popular character is if Kishimoto really focuses on her romance/Love Triangle with Sasuke and Naruto and has her realize she loves Naruto in some amazingly touching way.


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## SatoshiHyuga (Apr 1, 2010)

I'll be happy if the next time she makes a decision, she actually goes through with it. And enough with the damn crying already.


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## jackselectrichead (Apr 1, 2010)

Amrun said:


> She could certainly redeem herself in my eyes (FORUM IS SURPRISED :amazed), but there is no redeeming her in the overall view of this forum.  It just won't happen, no matter what.  Anything she does is now coloured by that hate.
> 
> For me, I want her to acknowledge her mistakes, call Sai out for bullshit, call Kakashi out for bullshit, call _Naruto_ out for bullshit, and realize what a pussy she's been, especially with this, "Oh, I can't do anything so I just WON'T TRY" attitude she's adopted recently....



Quasi-ditto, except that Kakashi and Sai I think have owned up to their bullshit, Kakashi even to Sakura's face. And I identify the problem differently.

Look, she's got the shinobi skill feats- she had Sasuke dead-to-rights, and who can say that? She doesn't have the psychology feats. She carried around Sasuke's last 1mm thick plot shield in her skull, and her conduct up until that point was... erratic. But the wall-walking vertical stalk in the middle of a MS throw-down? She has no skill or power related problems in my book.

What's ruined is shinobi authority, and the eternal narrative minefield of not ascribing that to gender issues (no, THANK YOU, Kishimoto. I enjoy needless controversy in my recreational communal reading activities). Sakura is an emotional wreck and unsuited for high stress leadership, and it isn't because she's a girl, it's because she's an emotional wreck who compounds it by not editing out her emotional life when that poses a problem. Naruto and Sasuke are in the same boat. Naruto gets away with it because he's strategically essential and charismatic as hell (or make that charismatic as a shonen protagonist, oddly enough), and Sasuke doesn't get away with it. Figure herself out and stop playing to her own weaknesses, and I don't see myself being disappointed. Issue being she's the Godaime's apprentice and takes it to heart...


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## Clay Man Gumby (Apr 2, 2010)

Amrun said:


> *For me, I want her to acknowledge her mistakes, call Sai out for bullshit, call Kakashi out for bullshit, call Naruto out for bullshit, *and realize what a pussy she's been, especially with this, "Oh, I can't do anything so I just WON'T TRY" attitude she's adopted recently....



Man what are you talking about?


Anyway I don't really have any negative feelings towards Sakura (or any Naruto character really) so I'd say Kishimoto needs to

-Remove her from the epicenter of this god awful romance drama. Leave that bullshit to a character who only shows up every 80 chapters like Hinata, but I can't take that with a character who shows up all the time.

-Have her reassert herself to her training, actually try and make it seem like Tsunade didn't just wast 2-3 years of her life.

-Have the character act like she's human and not a vagina with a singular purpose to be fulfilled by the end of the story. Give her some dreams and hopes outside of "LETTING THAWTHUKE KUN LOVE ME". Infact just drop her feelings for Sasuke all together, they've done nothing good for the character. 

-Let the character start devoloping naturally instead of being stuck in pre-Forest of Death mindset. Let it start to feel human for once in her life.


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## A Optimistic (Apr 2, 2010)

Death is the only way for Sakura to redeem herself.


















No wait, that won't even redeem her.


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## MminatoO (Apr 2, 2010)

Tsukiyomi said:


> At this point?  Take down all the villains by herself.



This is hilarious^^


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## TheIllness33 (Apr 2, 2010)

Sakura doesn't have a prayer anymore.  She has proven to be of no use, in fact, she has made herself a burden.

Her constant crying, whining, and lack of resolve are sickening considering the freakin' shinobi world is on the eve of war.  It is an embarrassment that Tsunade calls Sakura her student and even more troubling that she is making no preparations to ready herself for the coming fight.

Sakura is done, her character is finished, redemption is no longer a question.  Whether or not she can just look useful, at all, in the rest of her panel time is the only point of debate.


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## AceBizzle (Apr 2, 2010)

Also, I'm obligated to post "Sakura committing suicide" which is the ultimate redemption...wait 

Anything revolving around fighting or being a shinobi is a NO-NO with Sakura.  Also, Sakura's goals has ALWAYS revolved around Sasuke and Naruto.  I really...REALLY want someone like Tenten to just beat the shit out of Sakura once...or at least give her a firm slap to the face and some scolding.

I can't wait until the next time Kishi gives an interview and explain this horrible characterization of Sakura.


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## felixng2008 (Apr 2, 2010)

She really has to do something extraordinary to redeem herself.


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## Dark Saint (Apr 2, 2010)

Snipe Akatsuki with battle axes.


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## Jiraiya4Life (Apr 2, 2010)

Maybe you guys do't understand but, Sakura is the second best medical ninja i nthe leaf...if Naruto was hurt she would be right there to save the day. Whe nyo uguys rate characters yo urate them by their fighting techs...not the rest of their skills.


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## Yakushi Kabuto (Apr 2, 2010)

Despite what she said in regards to Sasuke and Naruto I still don't find her to be extremely dislikable. I think that her leaving matters up to the boys to take care of themselves frees her up to do other things. Instead of staying around worrying or trying to get between the two powerhouses this could open her up to doing other things. Just because she feels that she can't help them now doesn't mean she can't help others. I'd probably dislike her if she felt like giving up on people as a whole.


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## Aldric (Apr 2, 2010)

You know what Sakura is? She's the Sonic Team of the Naruto manga

She's all like "oh I get it I sucked shit in the past but this time I'm gonna shape up and give you what you've been waiting for, you won't be disappointed I swear"

And this is the result:



So yeah can't wait to see her next proverbial trip in a mine cart


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## Dboy2008 (Apr 2, 2010)

If Sakura kills every villian in the story, in a row, with a poisoned shuriken, she could get her respect back


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## Momoka (Apr 2, 2010)

I don't think Sakura haters will ever stop hating her. Sure, few will get out of it, but you know, haters be hatin' (and they're kind of stubborn)


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## richmass (Apr 2, 2010)

Kuromaku said:


> I admit, I'm not one to talk about criticizing the poor girl, what with having bashed her in the past and lurking around the Anti FC--but at this point, I really feel sorry for the poor thing.
> 
> After acting as a paragon of uselessness throughout Part I as nothing more than a useless wannabe ninja/shallow love interest for a guy who wasn't interested, she tried to turn a new leaf.
> 
> ...



Do something that only she can do, to have a genuine impact on the shinobi world, playing some kind of part in the halting of Madara's plans. If she died doing it I would be happy.


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## Dboy2008 (Apr 2, 2010)

I wouldn't call myself a Sakura hater, but I have to admit that she hasn't displayed very much "worth" as a ninja since the Sasori battle, aside from being a good medic. Even though she's been put into situations where, majority of the time, it would be impossible for her to make a big impact, there have been a few instances where she dropped the ball. Her biggest failure as a character, in my opinion, would be that she is content with the notion that she can't do anything about Sasuke. Thats unnacceptable, and kinda pathetic. If she were a random civilian, fine, but she's a ninja. STOP FAILING

Some people exaggerate about how terrible she is, but she is deserving of a lot of the criticism she gets. If you're weak, get stronger. Don't feel content with being below everyone. I hope she gets her shit together, because it would be a shame for her character to stay at this level for very much longer.


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## Evolet (Apr 2, 2010)

Clay Man Gumby said:


> Man what are you talking about?
> 
> 
> Anyway I don't really have any negative feelings towards Sakura (or any Naruto character really) so I'd say Kishimoto needs to
> ...


THIS. A hundred times. THIS


Or get super HAX Jutsu.


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## AceBizzle (Apr 2, 2010)

Evolet said:


> THIS. A hundred times. THIS
> 
> 
> *Or get super HAX Jutsu*.



Sakura walks up to Tsunade
Sakura: I found this...
Shows one Rinnegan Eye
Tsunade: Sakura!
Sakura: Implant it...in my forehead


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## Forlong (Apr 2, 2010)

It's a matter of opinion.  She'll never be redeemed in the eyes of her haters (not that they _want_ to think she'll ever redeem herself).  I feel that she's going to continue being pushed aside so the men can do their thing.  This manga hasn't exactly been fair to women, so I'm not getting my hopes up.


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## runsakurarun (Apr 2, 2010)

Clay Man Gumby said:


> Man what are you talking about?
> 
> 
> Anyway I don't really have any negative feelings towards Sakura (or any Naruto character really) so I'd say Kishimoto needs to
> ...




WOW. QFT

Although I disagree with Sakura being overly obsessed with Sasuke. 

She still has a life in Konoha. She acts as one of Tsunade's aides. She still goes to field missions and spends a lot of time studying. She has a great career as a medic and has her own apprentice in Ino. She managed to save the lives of several characters. She's functioning pretty well even if she can't get over him.


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## xiaojiang (Apr 2, 2010)

Kill herself, the less i see of her, the less hate i have.


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## Kensei (Apr 2, 2010)

What does Sakura need to redeem herself for?

It's already been proven base Sakura > most of narutoverse. When she steals rin'negan, she'll be final villain.


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## AreoSamurai21 (Apr 2, 2010)

*Easy:

+ make better decisions 

+ IF you make mistakes LEARN from them 

+ be independent and stop depending on others

+ stop being a burden to everybody

+ drop ALL romantic relationships altogether 

+ being willing to make sacrifices just like everybody else

+be willing to protect other beside your own skin

+ treat others with respect*


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## thebean3r (Apr 2, 2010)

She has to pull a white fang.


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## iamwubbie (Apr 3, 2010)

I don't mind that Sakura is regulated to a cheerleader and a support-ninja.  That's fine.  The only thing is, I HATE when she patronizes Naruto.  Kakashi's starting down the path of being obsolete, but he's cool about it, provides interesting commentary, and is 100% resolute.  Sakura talks down to Naruto like she's better than him.


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## Nandireya (Apr 3, 2010)

What does Sakura have to redeem herself for?  She's always been a ninja of no particular talent.


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## Cero Barrage (Apr 3, 2010)

i dont hate hate her but redemption lies in this. 

Run into the middle of the final naru/sasu fight, stop them, then punch one of them so hard their brain becomes lodged in their scrotum, then walk off with the other.


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## uzumakifan10 (Apr 3, 2010)

At this point I have little to no hope that she'll redeem herself what with the way Kishi has been portraying woman in his manga lately.


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## Rannic (Apr 3, 2010)

Wezzy said:


> If she just did us all a favour and killed herself, I would have a lot of respect for her...



lol sad but true


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## taeko (Apr 3, 2010)

lets just hope kishi becomes senile and forgets that sakura also exist in his series


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## Kage (Apr 3, 2010)

too late for that now. her character is just unpleasant and lol worthy as a supposed heroine. at the very least kishi could squeeze in an honorable death via sacrifice but that's not going to happen. he'd rather her live and be useless and obnoxious.


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## taeko (Apr 3, 2010)

sakura isn't worthy to have a flash-back no jutsu before she dies


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## OMNOMNOM THE COOKIEZ (Apr 3, 2010)

Kill the village.


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## Will Of Fire (Apr 3, 2010)

Sacrifice herself to protect someone.


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## -JT- (Apr 3, 2010)

Call me stupid, but Ino will have to show something impressive first before I'll want Sakura to. I'm fed up of Ino being left behind when they're supposed to be equal rivals


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## Takeru_Kamiya (Apr 3, 2010)

How long have we been asking this same question for now?


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## freetgy (Apr 3, 2010)

since Chapter 3


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## Takata (Apr 3, 2010)

Sakura will need to develop some new skills for the upcoming war. Maybe another time skip will make her redeemable...


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## yukito (Apr 3, 2010)

Become someone else?


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## FoxxyKat (Apr 3, 2010)

There's nothing she can do that'll make me like her. She simply sucks ass and should die.


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## Makoto Sensei (Apr 3, 2010)

Kill the whole Haruno clan 

Or actually acheiving contributive objetives, it would work as well


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## Andrew (Apr 3, 2010)

Getting killed by Zombie Sasori.


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## Godaime Tsunade (Apr 3, 2010)

Sakura has and always will be one of my favourite characters.
I obviously know of all the hate she recieves.Those major haters,of her personality and role will always hate her no matter what. But I believe perhaps people who only hate her because of her apparent "uselessness" could maybe change their opinions of her if she was given the feats and moves to surpass Tsunade.

Naruto and Sasuke have most likely already surpassed their masters.Yet Sakura is far from doing so. She needs to be given more feats, and quickly :/


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## xeno335 (Apr 3, 2010)

Gondaime Tsunade said:


> Sakura has and always will be one of my favourite characters.
> I obviously know of all the hate she recieves.Those major haters,of her personality and role will always hate her no matter what. But I believe perhaps people who only hate her because of her apparent "uselessness" could maybe change their opinions of her if she was given the feats and moves to surpass Tsunade.
> 
> Naruto and Sasuke have most likely already surpassed their masters.Yet Sakura is far from doing so. She needs to be given more feats, and quickly :/



even giving her more feats wont stop me from hating her, her entire PERSONALITY needs to change or actually you know develop! instead of her reverting back to her part 1 self. i will *believe in them* wtf?


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## Amatérasu’s Son (Apr 3, 2010)

Sakura's first step is to stop patronizing Naruto. Stop condescending to Naruto. Just generally treat the people's champ better. Acknowledge that he....is more special....than she .

Her combat performance is fine. One shotting boss summons is always good. Whats he needs is a real battle. More training would always help. 

Also she needs to fulfill that teasing bull shit that Kishi dropped on us back in the First Bell Exam and give her ass some genjutsu. I mean some heavy duty shit that blows Kurenai out of the water. A couple of straight offensive techniques couldn't hurt either. Train with Rock Lee to get some Taijutsu to go with the super strength. Keep using acrobatic dodging like in the Sasori fight. 

If you want insta-popular Sakura, then Kishi should let her curbstomp Sasuke like her name is Killer Bee. . Not that that will ever happen but it would make her popular instantly.



uzumakifan10 said:


> At this point I have little to no hope that she'll redeem herself what with the way Kishi has been portraying woman in his manga lately.



Actually Karin has been winning more and more by the chapter.


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## GorteX (Apr 3, 2010)

Only way for Sakura to redeem herself at this point is to give either Naruto or Sasuke a blowjob. Sadly this is true


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## Litho (Apr 3, 2010)

Yup. On screen nudity.


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## Signifies (Apr 3, 2010)

to get a fucking reality check and focus on training

I like Sakura but for fucksake she needs to do something instead of just cry in a battle.


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## zuul (Apr 3, 2010)

For me, it's really a personnality readjustment she needs. Stop being condescending to everyone.

And also there is something abit wrong the way Kishi is writting her. She should have to deal with the consequence of her acts, if not how could she possibely learn from her mistake and secondly : Kishi, shatting on Ino doesn't hype Sakura, it's just annoying Ino's fan like myself.  More generally shatting on characters isn't good hype device at all, it's annoying as hell and can even backfire you, by making the reader despising the hyped one. 


Her lack of powerhouseness is not an issue. She's a fucking support medic. Now Kishi just needs to let Naruto being gravely injured more regularly to let her use her skills on someone relevant not just fodders. It would hype her and people would cease calling her useless.

And a little less of over-emotionality while on mission. It's so unprofessional.


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## FitzChivalry (Apr 3, 2010)

Honestly, in all seriousness, one legitimate punch delivered to Sasuke will do wonders for her.


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## Santeira (Apr 3, 2010)

Reality-check, I guess.


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## wut000 (Apr 3, 2010)

> I could go on, but it would require too much work, so all I ask is this--what would it take to redeem Sakura?



The only way Sakura ends up being a good character is to win or be a key part of winning a battle with a major villain.

Bonus points if she ends up with Sasuke.


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## Chee (Apr 3, 2010)

That's impossible, with Kishimoto as the writer that will never happen.


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## Afalstein (Apr 3, 2010)

I doubt Kishi will show any kind of redemption.  He seems to have completely forgotten about all the stupid moves she's made recently.  488 is about as much as we're likely to get in Sakura's redemption.

Outside of that?  Stop patronizing Naruto, get over Sasuke, surpass Tsunade, and kill an Akatsuki member.  Preferably Zetsu.


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## Amrun (Apr 3, 2010)

wut000 said:


> The only way Sakura ends up being a good character is to win or be a key part of winning a battle with a major villain.
> 
> Bonus points if she ends up with Sasuke.



She's already done that.


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## Makoto Sensei (Apr 3, 2010)

Clay Man Gumby said:


> Man what are you talking about?
> 
> 
> Anyway I don't really have any negative feelings towards Sakura (or any Naruto character really) so I'd say Kishimoto needs to
> ...



QFT. The girl seems like she does'nt even knows her place in Konoha or as a matter of facts, anywhere  Her mission was delivering a message and ended up in a killer attemp of a rouge nin, poor girl. Growing up would help her a bit  

It's good to see as well how so many has stopped defending the girl's idiotic actions and making her the victim (as she was the victimary in the situations xD), disgusting Sakura's attitude is disgusting, which just turned to be the same as when she started lol


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## MissingShinobi (Apr 3, 2010)

Apologize to Naruto and be kinder to him, give up on Sasuke and mope about it for a little while, then change gears, go bad ass mode, and master Genjutsu and healing til she has tremendously powerful regenerative abilities and can recover from insane amounts of damage like Oro. I'd also want her to stock up on so many bombs, smoke bombs, sleep bombs, pepper bombs, ect. that you think she stole Batman's belt. She'd also have to be skilled with them.

After all of that's done, I'd want her to complete several S class missions all by herself while Naruto's busy training. I'd want her to say, "Hell Yeah!" like Inner-Sakura every time she beat an enemy with her final attack. At some point in the future, she'd either die or come close to it while successfully protecting a vulnerable/unconscious Naruto for once. For me that'd not only redeem her, but I'd kind of like her at that point.

Realistically? Apologizing to Naruto and being kinder to him and those that helped her would be a good start. Then I'd want her to sneak off to take one of the forbidden scrolls and master it. The boys on her team have haxxed stuff, give her something too.


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## Simondo (Apr 3, 2010)

She'd need to man up kill Sasuke, then kill Naruto. Then i'd say she has redeemed herself !


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## IDGabrielHM (Apr 3, 2010)

The problem with Sakura is that her capacity far outshines her actions.

She has a degree if skill and resilience with respect to genjutsu and a very dangerous array of knowledge on poisons and drugs and in many ways of delivering them.  Between the three original members of team 7 she is the most intelligent, the most well read, and the most naturally talented with the efficiency and execution of jutsu.  While her peers were trained in the ways of delivering catastrophic blows and/or dealing with multitudes of foes at the same time, she was trained in Kage-Level dodging and can easily be expected to predict and evade blows even which outpace her in speed and range.  Though not more durable than usual she can heal her own wounds, ad nauseam.  In base form at whim she can launch a melee attack that is as powerful if not often more powerful than the rasengan, and if her mentor is any indicator she can apply this to inhuman feats of physical strength as well.


We wouldn't hate her so much if she wasn't who she is.  She's not TenTen.  People rip on TenTen but who hates her?  She's able to do what she's able to do, and she gets credit for that.  She faced down Temari and lost, but that was one weapon user against another weapon user who was more skillful at the time and combined elemental jutsu with her toy.  It was a fair loss, and TenTen had improved by the next time we'd seen her.  Sakura; this girl was given all the potential and tools in the world and she hasn't taken herself where she needs to go with them.  After a monumental leap forward in the beginning of part II she took a infinity-shattering plummet backward in personality and usable talent.

This is the girl who stayed behind.  While the other two were off making rounds she remained in Konoha in her own element, her family the owners of the library system and her teacher the Hokage herself, with access to every resource imaginable and following a lesson plan catered to her own strengths.  She aught to really know her shit by now.

There's no reason she shouldn't physically be able to keep up with her peers.  In capability she outclasses the majority of the original rookies and there's no reason she shouldn't be expected to fight either Naruto or Sasuke and hold her own for several minutes if not suffer a loss that made them deeply regret taking her as an opponent.  Her only difficulty comes with MS and FRS in that she'd have to just avoid the damn things, and her combat specialty is evading.

She's incredibly powerful and we're not seeing dick from her.
All she has to do to redeem herself is simply be what she was promised to be and what she was presented as, and she already has everything she needs to do just that.  That she hasn't yet is a cocktease.
What we have at current is a girl who never grew up trapped in a woman's body.


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## ensoriki (Apr 3, 2010)

Gondaime Tsunade said:


> *Sakura has and always will be one of my favourite characters.*
> I obviously know of all the hate she recieves.Those major haters,of her personality and role will always hate her no matter what. But I believe perhaps people who only hate her because of her apparent "uselessness" could maybe change their opinions of her if she was given the feats and moves to surpass Tsunade.
> 
> Naruto and Sasuke have most likely already surpassed their masters.Yet Sakura is far from doing so. She needs to be given more feats, and quickly :/



No your lying to me, Who paid you!? Who made you sell your SOUL!!!!!! I'll avenge you, I promise  R.I.P Gondaime Tsunade.




TehVenom said:


> Yup. On screen nudity.



You know the saying
TITS OR GTFO, that won't redeem her but it WILL give her purpose, and make her panel time used fo the right purpose.
We dont need the 2nd coming of Tsunade, we've got Tsunade.

Really to actually Redeem herself, she needs to sacrifice herself,not for Naruto, not for Sasuke but for somebody else, put her ass on the line and lose it.
That won't fix it though it needs to be finished off with one of the other rookies/sand family/Omoi taking her place and then revealed later on in the story that she actually planned ahead for her death and left behind some research material she was looking at, that is actually relevant. Also prior to her sacrifice she must be shown nude in a bathtub of some sort or having Isshin/Yama finger/fist her. 

Once that's done you'd have to be a monster to "hate" her...dislike her sure...
Oh and if she killed Elmo...omfg, win.



> There's no reason she shouldn't physically be able to keep up with her peers. In capability she outclasses the majority of the original rookies and there's no reason she shouldn't be expected to fight either Naruto or Sasuke and hold her own for several minutes if not suffer a loss that made them deeply regret taking her as an opponent. Her only difficulty comes with MS and FRS in that she'd have to just avoid the damn things, and her combat specialty is evading.


Her combat specialty is not evading, shes terrible at evasion, in fact the only time in truth she's ever shown any real evasiveness was vs Sasori where he had plenty of time to adjust after Chiyo strung her around the damn place. 
We've seen time and time again she's an easy target.
The whole point of the punch crap was so the medics can scare off the attackers, not dodge shit, if they wanted to dodge shit they'd go study under Raikage.

What rookies does she outclass?
Shikamaru? No? Physically, sure but if you just want to talk physically, then she clearly hits harder than any of the other rookies barring gated Lee.
What MALE on the rookies does she surpass?
Theres no proof of her surpassing any of them, a sleep bomb used on people who trust you doesn't mean much.
So what she surpasses Ino, Tenten and Hinata? Like the rest of the friggen manga? None of these people have hit anybody on-panel since chuunin exams, and Tenten didn't even do that. Saying she's better than them hardly means diddly squat.

Konohamaru would beat the shit out of Sakura.


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## IDGabrielHM (Apr 4, 2010)

Now you're just hatin'

Sakura would murder Konohamaru in an outright fight.

And yes her combat specialty is evasion.  That's what Tsunade focused on with her and said was the keystone of her presence in combat, because other people are there for the damage and she was there to recover them.  The insane monster strength is her secondary skill, and she's used it not just offensively but also defensively and to expose and to off-balance the enemy.

She could whoop Choji's ass
She could whoop TenTen's ass
She could whoop Ino's ass
She could whoop Kiba's ass
She could whoop Shikamaru's ass too.  Kagemane is nice and all, but it's intensive and Shikamaru is not a chakra beast nor is he physically imposing.  If you can resist it to a certain point with your own chakra then you can turn it back and nullify; this has been proven with Tayuya's performance.  Without ample prep time and selection of the arena, Shikamaru would not possess sufficient advantages and Sakura would overpower and destroy him.

Even 5th Gate Lee isn't a sure thing.  Sure, he's fast enough to get in as many hits as he wants and who could be expected to evade, but unless he knocks her out cold it doesn't matter because she will heal and he will crash and burn.  After that it's a one hit KO against an opponent who isn't resisting.

Shino Neji and Hinata are the other ones who could give her trouble.  Shino can drain her chakra away and then she's not very well off.  Neji can cut her chakra off and is himself very good at dodging and melee combat.  Hinata's disposition to physical combat is far less imposing than Neji's but due to the similarity of style it may be difficult to triumph over her as well, though not nearly so much.

So that's about 6 out of 9 that she would be "expected" to come out on top against, some of which she would completely destroy.  Add in Sasuke and Naruto, whom as I said she should be expected to at least compete against if not for her drama problem, and that's 6 of 11.  That's more than half, which is "most".


I remember who this character used to be.


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## Kuromaku (Apr 4, 2010)

IDGabrielHM said:


> Now you're just hatin'
> 
> Sakura would murder Konohamaru in an outright fight.
> 
> ...



Lee's an idiot, so I'll give you that, but Shikamaru is pretty damn smart (ain't that an understatement).  Even without prep time he might be able to come up with something.  The Tayuya example happened pre-timeskip, and Shika actually managed to do this with 2 Akatsuki members, although Kakuzu was able to counter it with his own ability.


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## Dejablue (Apr 4, 2010)

Her "believing in them" line threw me off. It's like.....wat? Why believe in Sasuke? Did she just forget how he almost killed her twice in one day or something? Also I think you give her too much credit as a fighter. 

Sure she's strong but come on.


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## Temp_Position (Apr 4, 2010)

I think its because she's saddled up with all the 'good guys' that we dislike her. We compare her to her 'good- hearted' comrades and b/c of that shes hateable.

I was thinking....maybe she should become a villian? than maybe her 'character' would match her career. If that happened, we would expect the worst, bitchiest things from her...and like it! She'll be like the epitomy of villians with her selfish, conniving and manipulative attitude.


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## Dejablue (Apr 4, 2010)

*What Would It Take For Hinata to Redeem Herself?*

*AKA : Hinata, what's next?* 

Okay. This is a touchy subject depending on who you are and stuff but I'm asking for honestly thought out responses.  

When it comes to Hinata I constantly contradict myself. I like her character. I like her personality, the quiet, shy, out of sight out of mind way she usually composes herself around groups.  I like her self determination.

 At the same time. At the exact same time I can't help but criticize and complain about lot of stuff as well.  Reasons to not like her are pretty universal. After hanging around her Anti-FC I can safely say at this point that, with the way Kishimoto writes her, her flaws come dangerously close to overtaking her strengths. 

Or maybe they already have and Hinata is just that badly written.  Part 1 Hinata showed promise. Shippuden Hinata is squandering it as far as I'm concerned. Heck, even Pre-Time Skip _Filler_ Hinata has more points in her favor. And the story may be drawing to a close soon. Is there any hope for Hinata to improve herself in the eyes of her haters?

*Hinata got the confession out of the way. What other drives or ambitions does this character have? Was her confession the only one?*


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## Aazadan (Apr 4, 2010)

Crying won't bring back Sasuke...


Cries...


It's ok that she's not a powerful character, it's not ok that she continuously contradicts herself, acts like a total bitch to her friends, and attacks her own team mates.  It's like that inner sakura from part 1 developed over the timeskip and she has multiple personality disorder now.  There's normal Sakura who does the medic stuff and wants Sasuke back and then there's evil inner Sakura who does the exact opposite of what any competent reasonable ninja would do in any situation.

At this point it would take several hundred chapters for her to redeem herself.  There's not enough time left in the manga for that.


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## Temp_Position (Apr 4, 2010)

ah, I hope we dont have a thread for all the females in this manga  (Sasuke counts in my book, lol)

I think Hinata's character was written to be this soft spoken submissive female character with big boobs. It would be nice if she would be more....but shes a shonen stereotype/cliche. I do have hope for her character though. I think kishi takes stereotypes and adds a little more to them. 

To redeem her self....well, I think she should just be a good ninja. Thats all really. As long as there is less attention put on her, we dont have to criticize her development since there wouldnt be any. 

Thats also why I like TenTen. She has the least development and whatever we know about her character doesn't revolve around a guy, so thats positive. TenTen also admires Tsunade. 

Maybe Hinata could also start being more of an independent female and gain inspiration from great females instead of our lead male. Its best to idol worship the same gender. This way you dont look like your in love or something (which she is.. and look how that ended up)


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## Amrun (Apr 4, 2010)

I am similar to you, OP.  I like her but at the same time she frustrates me so greatly!

All I really want her to do is stop defining herself through her relationships with men -- any men, including Naruto.  This complaint goes for all women in this series except for Chiyo, but for Hinata it's particularly bad.

I also want her to make a stand against her family.

That's all she really needs to do for me to like her without confliction, though I'd also like it if she apologized to Naruto for confessing at THAT particular moment.  (She did acknowledge it was selfish, though, so I'm not too upset about it.  Also, Naruto is ignoring her and that's a dick move too.)


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## Aster The Megalomaniac (Apr 4, 2010)

Hinata doesn't have haters, only disappointed lovers..... and people who doesn't prefer veiny eyes because it reminds them of a certain part of the male human body.

That said, there is no "redemption". Hinata is what she is, it's just that people wanted her to be much more, despite secretly knowing that she won't be as "much more" as the expectations of her fans and "haters", not by a long shot, buddy.

She is doing just fine now.


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## Koi (Apr 4, 2010)

Hinata?  Who cares?  We have Neji instead.


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## Fatstogey (Apr 4, 2010)

She needs to smack the shit outta naruto and be like "bitch i offered myself to you and you act like you dont even see me! You pussy im going to fuck Sasuke."


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## Frostman (Apr 4, 2010)

She'd need to jump Naruto. Im sick of her hesitation. If she really loved him, she'd tie him up and hide him in her basement.


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## Mintaka (Apr 4, 2010)

She needs to do another sailor hinata moment.

>.>

Either that or prove she's moved away from what she once was in some aspect.


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## BroKage (Apr 4, 2010)

Try explaining Hinata's character flaws, first of all.

She disappeared. She does NOTHING and thus doesn't warrant hate.


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## Hannibal (Apr 4, 2010)

Bend over and take one for the team already


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## Judecious (Apr 4, 2010)

she hasnt done anything wrong


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## Grep (Apr 4, 2010)

Dejablue said:


> At the same time. At the exact same time I can't help but criticize and complain about lot of stuff as well.  Reasons to not like her are pretty universal. After hanging around her Anti-FC I can safely say at this point that, with the way Kishimoto writes her, her flaws come dangerously close to overtaking her strengths.



Something seems wrong here. Can't put my finger on it.



> Reasons to not like her are pretty universal. After hanging around her Anti-FC I can safely say at this point that, with the way Kishimoto writes her, her flaws come dangerously close to overtaking her strengths.



Hmm. Think I am narrowing it down. Not quite there yet though.



> After hanging around her Anti-FC I can safely say at this point that, with the way Kishimoto writes her, her flaws come dangerously close to overtaking her strengths.



Almost got it.



> *After hanging around her Anti-FC*



Ah. Found the problem.

Seriously though. Jokes aside, no character is perfect. People are just picky. Stay away from fanclubs in general, especially anti fanclubs if you want people to take you seriously about such things. Hinata isn't even in the manga enough to have any need to be 'redeemed'.


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## KAKASHI10 (Apr 4, 2010)

She actually has been the only character besides Sasuke, Kabuto and madara that have actually made some type of progress is their development as characters. 
She will not be head of the family bevause WE ALL KNOW that NEJI will be the next head of the family breaking the " desteny or what ever crap he talk about in part 1"

She already confess to naruto IN PUBLIC.
She only needs to start dating KIBA and does it. that is the only thing is left for her in this manga, start dating Kiba and saying I leave the head of family position to neji,
DOES IT.


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## MJMasterMan (Apr 4, 2010)

I'd like her more so if she had a bit more self-confience on the outside. Just enough where she does not blush and what-not every time someone says something semi-embarassing.

Also; she could force a word or two out of Naruto if he has not yet talked to her. She says she "is happy" with the fact that she told him but still... just for closure to us that cannot love so purly, I suppose?

All in all she has very few flaws. I think thats one of the main reason she has haters, lol.


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## Rubi (Apr 4, 2010)

Hinata isn't like most girls in the manga. Hell if she was then I think I'll stop reading and watching Naruto. She's the number one reason why I'm watching and reading Naruto now. My other reason's dead so what's the point now? If you saw me posting at other threads, you'll think that I love Itachi just because of his smexyness. But TBH, the main thing I love about him are his flaws and strengths. So I applied the same with Hinata. I embraced her strengths and flaws And made her my favorite character. I saw her determination. She wasn't all talk and no action. She is one of the few kunoichis who actually trained hard and not just swooning over a boy or something. 

I think that she just needs to gain a little more confidence in herself. But tbh, I want to see her character--colder than sasuke........

She just needs to stop worrying about her mistakes for a while. She seems to be the type who thinks carefully before acting... All it takes is some acknowledgement-- not just from Naruto but the other characters as well. She can't be thought of just as a shy wierdo. When people describe her, the first adjective i usually see is "shy" she's more than just a shy girl. She is shy; not weak. And for her "haters" they say she's "weak, useless, annoying, ugly, pairing foddler and an overrated piece of shit with fake boobs; a whore.

Honestly--how can someone think of her like that? They haven't seen much of her character and they say she always gets owned. And what irks me the most is the slut/whore part. I was seriously like, WTF?

But everyone entitled to their own opinions, just like I am. I simply think she's somebody who has great potential.


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## MJMasterMan (Apr 4, 2010)

Amatsunohina said:


> Hinata isn't like most girls in the manga. Hell if she was then I think I'll stop reading and watching Naruto. She's the number one reason why I'm watching and reading Naruto now. My other reason's dead so what's the point now? If you saw me posting at other threads, you'll think that I love Itachi just because of his smexyness. But TBH, the main thing I love about him are his flaws and strengths. So I applied the same with Hinata. I embraced her strengths and flaws And made her my favorite character. I saw her determination. She wasn't all talk and no action. She is one of the few kunoichis who actually trained hard and not just swooning over a boy or something.
> 
> I think that she just needs to gain a little more confidence in herself. But tbh, I want to see her character--colder than sasuke........
> 
> ...



Great post but really? People say she is a whore/slut, lol? I have NEVER seen that said... although I almost post only in the library and telegrams...

Maybe thats common in the HoU? Ah, what a stupid thing to say.

+Rep. Good good.


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## Amrun (Apr 4, 2010)

I hate when people resort to whore/slut/appearance comments, especially when they're unfounded.  It's ridiculous.

However, what annoys me most about Hinata is not really Hinata herself -- though I like her, she is kind of a useless moe blob -- but her fans who give her a double standard and excuse all of her flaws.  I like my characters flawed, thank you very much!  But God forbid anyone suggest Hinata-sama has one.... The Church of Hinata is quick to rage and forgive her things they censure in other characters.  (Prime example: fangirliness.)


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## Rubi (Apr 4, 2010)

MJMasterMan said:


> Great post but really? People say she is a whore/slut, lol? I have NEVER seen that said... although I almost post only in the library and telegrams...
> 
> Maybe thats common in the HoU? Ah, what a stupid thing to say.
> 
> +Rep. Good good.



yes, in fanfiction, also. There are a lot of people who say shes  a slit/whore.... Maybe because of breasts. Somebody has a sig that says that. 



> I hate when people resort to whore/slut/appearance comments, especially when they're unfounded. It's ridiculous.
> 
> However, what annoys me most about Hinata is not really Hinata herself -- though I like her, she is kind of a useless moe blob -- but her fans who give her a double standard and excuse all of her flaws. I like my characters flawed, thank you very much! But God forbid anyone suggest Hinata-sama has one.... The Church of Hinata is quick to rage and forgive her things they censure in other characters. (Prime example: fangirliness.)



yes you're right, I hate that too. I like them flawed as well... No wonder I love L....


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## wut000 (Apr 4, 2010)

Amrun said:


> She's already done that.



Yeah and ever since then she's done nothing but cry. Naruto and Sasuke are involved in major battles all the time, of course the story is set around those two, but Sakura is a member of Team 7 also and she's been in one good battle and was helped a lot.


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## santanico (Apr 4, 2010)

KAKASHI10 said:


> She actually has been the only character besides Sasuke, Kabuto and madara that have actually made some type of progress is their development as characters.
> She will not be head of the family *bevause WE ALL KNOW that NEJI will be the next head of the family breaking the " desteny or what ever crap he talk about in part 1"*
> 
> She already confess to naruto IN PUBLIC.
> ...



@the bolded, that is not necessarily true, but believe whatever it is you want to believe.



> Hinata isn't even in the manga enough to have any need to be 'redeemed'.



*sigh* this is true. Sad as it is, it's still very true.



> Maybe Hinata could also start being more of an independent female



Um, she did become more independent AND more assertive. She, like everyone else was told not to interfere with Naruto's battle, and she went against it. Remember, those who abandon their comrades are worse than trash, or something along those lines.


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## MJMasterMan (Apr 4, 2010)

Ya that was the only thing I could think of. Probably mainly immature girls thinking anyone with a big pair is suddenly a whore. Ah, they will grow up eventually. 

But man... Light > L. Sorry, I love L, but Light smoked the fucker. Haha.


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## PushMeAway (Apr 4, 2010)

she can redeem herself by committing suicide...ASAP!


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## Rubi (Apr 4, 2010)

Yeah.....  Sigh..... 
*Spoiler*: _OT_ 



but light got his ass owned...  That, my dear, Is my vengance for L. I was actually the one who killed the yagami-teme




hope they grow up, too
 Starr - a wise woman once said developement dosent equal screentime


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## MJMasterMan (Apr 4, 2010)

*Spoiler*: __ 



***DONT READ IF YOU HAVE NOT READ DEATH NOTE**  * 


Light was only beaten due to a completely lucky draw on Nears side. Also light had the balls to go out and change the world; he took the entire potential negative on his shoulders. He could have been ANYTHING he wished. Instead? He decides to save those that are, by the majorities opinion, innocent.

Light was a God. Sure he was arrogant, but can you blame him? He was everything that was ideal and had the family / lover / friends to support this claim. Light is like perfection. Even his mortal enemy L admitted that he was fit to be his succesor.

Ah, I'm rambaling. To much whiskey and not enough sleep. Still, Light is one of the best manga chars I have ever read and I've read a lot of mangas.


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## Rubi (Apr 4, 2010)

Yea... Inwas just kidding with what I said-- I like light but that was my problem--he's almost perfect. I honestly like my characters flawed 

Sorry for the otness


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## Saunion (Apr 4, 2010)

She'd have to stop being a stuttering, crippingly shy person, as it's completely unexcusable for someone who's supposed to be elite military personnel. She'd have to get dreams and ambitions of her own that don't revolve around a man. She'd have to be shown as a competent kunoichi in battle. And for all that to happen, she'd have to stop being a background pairing fodder character and get a lot of screentime to properly develop and basically make a 180° turn.

Needless to say it probably won't happen.


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## Rubi (Apr 4, 2010)

She dosent really stutter that much. It annoys me when in fanfiction they make her stutter like hell!!! Even around somebody who she's comfortable with.

A lot of her fans like her only because of the pairing she's involved with-- I honestly don't think she's a mere love interest


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## Marsala (Apr 4, 2010)

Fatstogey said:


> She needs to smack the shit outta naruto and be like "bitch i offered myself to you and you act like you dont even see me! You pussy im going to fuck Sasuke."



And Naruto would say, "No way bitch, I'M the only one who fucks Sasuke!"


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## toriyama (Apr 4, 2010)

Saunion said:


> She'd have to stop being a stuttering, crippingly shy person, as it's completely unexcusable for someone who's supposed to be elite military personnel. She'd have to get dreams and ambitions of her own that don't revolve around a man. She'd have to be shown as a competent kunoichi in battle. And for all that to happen, she'd have to stop being a background pairing fodder character and get a lot of screentime to properly develop and basically make a 180? turn.
> 
> Needless to say it probably won't happen.



This and 



Amrun said:


> However, what annoys me most about Hinata is not really Hinata herself -- though I like her, she is kind of a useless moe blob -- but her fans who give her a double standard and excuse all of her flaws.  I like my characters flawed, thank you very much!  But God forbid anyone suggest Hinata-sama has one.... The Church of Hinata is quick to rage and forgive her things they censure in other characters.  (Prime example: fangirliness.)



This

Hinata is only a secondary character, so I wouldn't have hated her, if it weren't for her worshippers. I'm sure that if somebody in this thread gives out even a well-explained reason about Hinata's flaws, I'm sure fans will jump at that and attack _that_ person's favorite character. It's a trend, to attack the person's favorite character if that person dare say Hinata is not perfect. The worshippers of Hinata 's church needs serious redemption.


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## Santeira (Apr 4, 2010)

Nothing is wrong with her and I'm not hoping. She is secondary character and flawed, I like that. Given the panel count, she grew out of her shyness in Pain Arc and was given an original Jutsu. The fact that she probably trained on her own (without a teacher to achieve the Lion Palms) is enough.


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## Rashman (Apr 4, 2010)

It's too late for sakura.....


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## Saunion (Apr 4, 2010)

IDGabrielHM said:


> There's no reason she shouldn't physically be able to keep up with her peers.  In capability she outclasses the majority of the original rookies and there's no reason she shouldn't be expected to fight either Naruto or Sasuke and hold her own for several minutes if not suffer a loss that made them deeply regret taking her as an opponent.  Her only difficulty comes with MS and FRS in that she'd have to just avoid the damn things, and her combat specialty is evading.



Errrr... What? 

Did you seriously just say she could "hold her own for several minutes" against Naruto and Sasuke?

She'd die in a split second.


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## zuul (Apr 4, 2010)

Sha has nothing to redeem herself about execept saving that pile of shit named Naruto. Seriously the manga would have became 10000000000000000000 the better without the orange turd.

She's not a bad friend, not a bad daughter, never treated anyone badly. She barely appears so you cannot even reproach her to be a plot tumor or a vaste panels waste.

Fail thread is fail. Serfiously guys always comparing Sakura and Hinata is so stupid... Crypto NaruHina vs NaruSaku wars are unsufferable.

Comparing the both of them is like comparing Naruto to Ebisu. It's just


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## ~riku~ (Apr 4, 2010)

First tell me what she's done wrong?

This is not like the Sakura thread. Sakura has done so many bad things that pisses so many people off. But Hinata's hardly even shown and hardly speaks, bar her 'I Love You' speech. So what exactly is she redeeming herself from?

If you say 'oh, her shyness and submissiveness and gentle nature is so wrong, she needs to fix that!' well you've got that wrong, that's just part of who she is. That's like Sakura not being bitchy and loud, Naruto not being stupid and friendly, and Sasuke not being vengeful. She can't redeem herself from who she is.


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## zuul (Apr 4, 2010)

~riku~ said:


> First tell me what she's done wrong?
> 
> This is not like the Sakura thread. Sakura has done so many bad things that pisses so many people off. But Hinata's hardly even shown and hardly speaks, bar her 'I Love You' speech. So what exactly is she redeeming herself from?
> 
> If you say 'oh, her shyness and submissiveness and gentle nature is so wrong, she needs to fix that!' well you've got that wrong, that's just part of who she is. That's like Sakura not being bitchy and loud, Naruto not being stupid and friendly, and Sasuke not being vengeful. She can't redeem herself from who she is.



She isn't submissive, you know (that's just macho NaruHina fanbois wishes). She always ends up doing her suicidal stuff against the men wishes.
And said very politely  to Neji to stfu;


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## Safer Saviour (Apr 4, 2010)

MJMasterMan said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Light wins everything he does through happenstance. Both he and L are morons and there are so many times in the manga where I couldn’t believe the massive oversights and unnecessary risks they took. Of course it made the manga more ‘exciting’ but it still made both characters look hilariously (and unintentionally) stupid at times.

In addition, the ‘success’ of Light’s goal mid-way through the series overlooked any of the moral complexities surrounding the moral dilemma the manga claimed to pose. It doesn’t address war killings, professional hitmen, organised crimebut more than that it doesn’t address the fact that most ‘everyday’ murders are crimes of passion committed in the _heat of the moment_ by someone close to the victim. These are not crimes that can be stopped through intimidation.



Now Hinata is a character who’s barely a character. She’s not even one dimensional; she’s just the ‘shy girl with a crush’ and that doesn’t fit her station so much as it is shonen tokenism. To ‘redeem’ herself, Hinata would have to develop an actual personality and show that there’s more to her character than her lineage or her ‘love’ for Naruto. Unlikely, I know.


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## Kind of a big deal (Apr 4, 2010)

If Hinata suddenly becomes an independant and strong character I would actually dislike her more, because it would be such an improbable change of character I would consider it badly written.

I would prefer it if she resigned from being a shinobi, which she isn't cut out to be. Not because of some chauvinistic gender based ideas, but rather if someone like Hinata with the personality of a mouse can be a shinobi that devaluates from the badass-ness of all the other shinobi. It severely lowers the bar.
If she resigned from being a shinobi and did something she was good at, she could develop and flourish on her own and get her self respect and confidence through believable means.


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## ~riku~ (Apr 4, 2010)

zuul said:


> She isn't submissive, you know (that's just macho NaruHina fanbois wishes). She always ends up doing her suicidal stuff against the men wishes.
> And said very politely  to Neji to stfu;



Sorry sorry, yeah I know, she's just one of those quiet nice people >__>

I'm just wondering WHAT she has to redeem since she's barely shown...

I understand WHY Sakura has a thread like this, and it would be understandable of Sasuke/Naruto had one too. But a side-character like Hinata? What? Has she done something really terrible that I've missed or something? 

If I recall correctly, all she had done was save Naruto (plot device, so she WAS useful) and help in that tracking mission (she wasn't a burden here, so she was useful here too -_-) and that's pretty much it.


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## Santeira (Apr 4, 2010)

LOL at the resignation from being a Shinobi. That would exac tly be the opposite of what Kishimoto tried to tell us from her fight with Neji--to never give up. I feel it is hilarious that when even Naruto told her to not give up, then the whole Neji and Hinata arc is about not resigning to 'unfortunate fate' no matter how hopeless--here I am reading that the only way for Hinata to be 'redeemed' is to regress. 

She already grew out of her shyness in Pain Arc. She has developed there in that arc, she has original Jutsu, her Byakugan has proven to be useful. She's just not plot-relevant.

Why would Hinata need a redemption? Who has she killed? Who has she hurt?

As a character she has a background, has a personality, she's just probably lacking depth because of lack of panel time.

Maybe she should just grow out of her crush for Naruto, that's all. And OP should spend less time in anti-FC, I think.


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## ~riku~ (Apr 4, 2010)

If Hinata DID quit being a ninja, she'd just get hated more because she said she never wanted to give up. :/

And now people WANT her to give up?


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## BrightlyGoob (Apr 4, 2010)

I'm not sure. 
She already had that huge moment, & yet people still continue to hate. 
So, I highly doubt there will be something to improve her status among fans, but people may change their mind sometime.


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## cloudsymph (Apr 4, 2010)

nothing, not even death.


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## Kind of a big deal (Apr 4, 2010)

Resigning from being a shinobi isn't the same as giving up. She can be more than she is now, she'd make a great teacher for example. It would be growth. The theme of never giving up applies to her personality, not to her being a shinobi or not. Because that would be both silly and self-destructive.

If she resigns her fate and stubbornly stays a chuunin (that still needs a bodyguard), it would mean that she thinks this is as good as it gets. I dunno about you guys, but to me that's much more 'giving up' than resigning from shinobi duty would ever be.


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## Muah (Apr 4, 2010)

Actually Hinata is the only redeeming quality of that manga.


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## Evolet (Apr 4, 2010)

AceBizzle said:


> Sakura walks up to Tsunade
> Sakura: I found this...
> Shows one Rinnegan Eye
> Tsunade: Sakura!
> Sakura: Implant it...in my forehead



Fuck yeah.


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## Rubi (Apr 4, 2010)

~riku~ said:


> First tell me what she's done wrong?
> 
> This is not like the Sakura thread. Sakura has done so many bad things that pisses so many people off. But Hinata's hardly even shown and hardly speaks, bar her 'I Love You' speech. So what exactly is she redeeming herself from?
> 
> If you say 'oh, her shyness and submissiveness and gentle nature is so wrong, she needs to fix that!' well you've got that wrong, that's just part of who she is. That's like Sakura not being bitchy and loud, Naruto not being stupid and friendly, and Sasuke not being vengeful. She can't redeem herself from who she is.




You are so right. But I don't really want to bash Sakura [or any character for that matter] here because this isn't the right thread to do so. But comparason shows that you're trying to make one characacter look good because they other character is the negative of the other character so it seems unfair...

But anyway.... Rep


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## felixng2008 (Apr 4, 2010)

She doesn't even have to redeem herself. She isn't even an important character and she hasn't really done anything bad like useless old Sakura.


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## Extasee (Apr 4, 2010)

If she became a jounin who worked for Naruto as a body guard when/if he became hokage, I bet a lot of people would shut the hell up.


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## Santeira (Apr 4, 2010)

Do you remember that resigning from being a shinobi is exactly what neji told her to do? Her wanting to be Shinobi is directly related to her personality of not giving up. She would be contradictory to stop being a Shinobi because it would be exactly what Neji told her back then--and it would mean giving up--resigning to not being Shinobi by thinking one is incompetent is self-destructive and self-defeating.  Also, again, even Kages need bodyguard--and having those doesn't mean she's weak, since she's the daughter of the head of an elite clan. 

What, continue being a Shinobi means giving up and stopping means progressing forward?  There's no need for her to stop being a Shinobi because you think she is incompetent you know. She wants to be a Shinobi--and so far she hasn't endangered anyone but herself in the process--which is of her free will and she's a ninja, and she thinks she is competent to continue to go forward.


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## Rubi (Apr 4, 2010)

Zombie Puff said:


> If she became a jounin who worked for Naruto as a body guard when/if he became hokage, I bet a lot of people would shut the hell up.



Epic win.....::.:...



> Do you remember that resigning from being a shinobi is exactly what neji told her to do? Her wanting to be Shinobi is directly related to her personality of not giving up. She would be contradictory to stop being a Shinobi because it would be exactly what Neji told her back then--and it would mean giving up--resigning to not being Shinobi by thinking one is incompetent is self-destructive and self-defeating. Also, again, even Kages need bodyguard--and having those doesn't mean she's weak, since she's the daughter of the head of an elite clan.
> 
> What, continue being a Shinobi means giving up and stopping means progressing forward? There's no need for her to stop being a Shinobi because you think she is incompetent you know. She wants to be a Shinobi--and so far she hasn't endangered anyone but herself in the process--which is of her free will and she's a ninja, and she thinks she is competent to continue to go forward.



yes, you're right. But I seriously doubt that hinata will resign. She trained a lot and made it to chunnin. I don't think shell waste her hardwork just like that

besides she might get the curse seal


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## Kind of a big deal (Apr 4, 2010)

Pfff Neji was proven right back then anyway about destiny. Naruto's theme of fighting destiny has been proven a farce in part 2. He's the literal embodiment of destiny right now.


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## Santeira (Apr 4, 2010)

That's a farce to Naruto, not to Hinata. She doesn't even know about the destined child rubbish in Part 2. All she knew was Naruto who told her not to give up in Part 1. Just because Naruto goes back on his words doesn't mean Hinata needs to too.  

@amatsunohina: of course she won't, I was replying to some joke.


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## ~riku~ (Apr 4, 2010)

Amatsunohina said:


> You are so right. But I don't really want to bash Sakura [or any character for that matter] here because this isn't the right thread to do so. But comparason shows that you're trying to make one characacter look good because they other character is the negative of the other character so it seems unfair...
> 
> But anyway.... Rep



I only brought up Sakura because this is just a Hinata version of , right?



Amatsunohina said:


> besides she might get the curse seal


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## Skeith (Apr 4, 2010)

Mmmm......Mostly finding out her deal with the clan.

Other than that, there not much else that wrong with what she did.


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## Canute87 (Apr 4, 2010)

Redeem? What has Hinata done wrong? 
Loving someone like Naruto from the start because of the person he was?
Getting the courage to stand up to Neji?
Being useful to her teammates?
Finally mustering up the courage to tell Naruto how she felt?

What?


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## Muah (Apr 4, 2010)

Canute87 said:


> Redeem? What has Hinata done wrong?
> Loving someone like Naruto from the start because of the person he was?
> Getting the courage to stand up to Neji?
> Being useful to her teammates?
> ...



Your not getting it Canute! Shes an ok character but she hasn't had any conflicting issues between her morals and her selfish wants; she normally just goes on her morals. That in the Naruto manga makes you a useless character. If she decides to go against her morals because she just loves Naruto-kun to much then she would get more screen time. Drama sells in this manga.


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## Rinoa (Apr 4, 2010)

Canute87 said:


> Redeem? What has Hinata done wrong?
> Loving someone like Naruto from the start because of the person he was?
> Getting the courage to stand up to Neji?
> Being useful to her teammates?
> ...


My thoughts.

Redeem? wth...


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## Saunion (Apr 4, 2010)

toriyama said:


> This
> 
> Hinata is only a secondary character, so I wouldn't have hated her, if it weren't for her worshippers. I'm sure that if somebody in this thread gives out even a well-explained reason about Hinata's flaws, I'm sure fans will jump at that and attack _that_ person's favorite character. It's a trend, to attack the person's favorite character if that person dare say Hinata is not perfect. The worshippers of Hinata 's church needs serious redemption.



Aaaan this is exactly what this thread has devolved into.


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## Euraj (Apr 4, 2010)

I'd like to see her participate in a major fight, but honestly, I'm fine with her. She hasn't had a downward spiral like Sakura, whom should obviously have more importance. I'd set Hinata aside if the latter could finally get some well-deserved development.


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## Forlong (Apr 4, 2010)

Wait, when did Hinata _require_ redemption?  I'm not following.


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## AreoSamurai21 (Apr 4, 2010)

Santeira said:


> LOL at the resignation from being a Shinobi. That would exac tly be the opposite of what Kishimoto tried to tell us from her fight with Neji--to never give up. I feel it is hilarious that when even Naruto told her to not give up, then the whole Neji and Hinata arc is about not resigning to 'unfortunate fate' no matter how hopeless--here I am reading that the only way for Hinata to be 'redeemed' is to regress.
> 
> She already grew out of her shyness in Pain Arc. She has developed there in that arc, she has original Jutsu, her Byakugan has proven to be useful. She's just not plot-relevant.
> 
> ...



*I agree with this posting....except the hinata stop loving Naruto....but it is true that she'll do better off without her crush on him...But at least her crush wasn't like sakura's shallow source of affection for Sasuke....

As for redemption...most people don't like her cause she's secondary character with a fandom to rival the herione sakura's (last fav charcter poll Sakura 12th ,Hinata 13th )...yes the overated thing...And the rest is Pairing war related *


KAKASHI10 said:


> She already confess to naruto IN PUBLIC.
> *She only needs to start dating KIBA and does it.* that is the only thing is left for her in this manga, start dating Kiba and saying I leave the head of family position to neji,
> DOES IT.



*Her dating Kiba is so shallow...She's better off with Shino if she doesn't end up with Naruto ...*


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## ~riku~ (Apr 4, 2010)

Saunion said:


> Aaaan this is exactly what this thread has devolved into.



It's funny how Hinata =/= Hinata fans.

This thread is about Hinata the character, not her fanbase and their problems.


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## takL (Apr 4, 2010)

i like hinata for recognizing naruto's real strength from the early stage when he was treated as a loser. altho i don't find her looks with too big eyes and being short too attractive.


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## The Duchess (Apr 4, 2010)

Hinata can be redeemed by disappearing altogether.



~riku~ said:


> If Hinata DID quit being a ninja, she'd just get hated more because she said she never wanted to give up. :/
> 
> And now people WANT her to give up?


Oh, I wouldn't hate her. I would give her props for finally realizing what a shitty ninja she is. Yeah, she went back on her "never give up" nindo but she's already been such a disappointment that this one wouldn't make any difference.


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## ~riku~ (Apr 4, 2010)

The Duchess said:


> Oh, I wouldn't hate her. I would give her props for finally realizing what a shitty ninja she is. Yeah, she went back on her "never give up" nindo but she's already been such a disappointment that this one wouldn't make any difference.



Oh, and how did she go back on it? :3


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## takL (Apr 4, 2010)

i love how naruto reacted when hinata was stabbed by pain. not when fukasaku was in front of him or when he heard of kakashis death or jiyaiyas.


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## The Duchess (Apr 4, 2010)

~riku~ said:


> Oh, and how did she go back on it? :3


I didn't say she went back on it, I said she'd already been such a disappointment that her going back on her nindo wouldn't warrant any hatred (lol SRS HATRED) from me. 

ah this feels like old times, doesn't it riku


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## Seto Kaiba (Apr 4, 2010)

To 'redeem' would imply that her character has fallen in some way. There isn't anything to redeem, not for the same reasons her fans are stating though. It's because she's always been a lousy character, there was no point to fall from...I wouldn't consider her a disappointment because I never expected anything from her. She was never built or hyped up to be anything except by her fans. She's just...there.


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## Inuhanyou (Apr 4, 2010)

Hinata as a character has been saved by not having done to her what her character would dictate  When you get right down to it, her romantic feelings for Naruto made her, so in my view, had her feelings ever been returned, she would be done as a character 

She can now grow independently knowing that Naruto atleast in some way acknowledges her  She, in her own way helped him beat Pain. That's more than enough to expect from Kishi


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## poiuy (Apr 4, 2010)

Nothing. Hinata is perfect the way she is.

Naruto is just a turd muffin.


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## ~riku~ (Apr 4, 2010)

The Duchess said:


> I didn't say she went back on it, I said she'd already been such a disappointment that her going back on her nindo wouldn't warrant any hatred (lol SRS HATRED) from me.



No, you said she DID go back on it!



The Duchess said:


> Yeah, *she went back on her* "never give up" *nindo*



And it WOULD warrant hatred since haters pick on any little thing they can use to hate, so something like that would just be another thing to bash Hinata about. It's like Sakura's goals, they're all based on Sasuke/Naruto (mainly Sasuke). If Sakura had her own goal then nobody would hate her for being 'pairing fodder'. Sakura is just based on Naruto/Sasuke.




> ah this feels like old times, doesn't it riku



who are you


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## gabzilla (Apr 4, 2010)

Hinata is not perfect, but I don't see what there is to "redeem".

Could she use more development? Sure. Will she get it? Probably not. 



Aster The Megalomaniac said:


> *Hinata doesn't have haters*, only disappointed lovers..... and people who doesn't prefer veiny eyes because it reminds them of a certain part of the male human body.
> 
> That said, there is no "redemption". Hinata is what she is, it's just that people wanted her to be much more, despite secretly knowing that she won't be as "much more" as the expectations of her fans and "haters", not by a long shot, buddy.
> 
> She is doing just fine now.







Amrun said:


> However, what annoys me most about Hinata is not really Hinata herself -- though I like her, she is kind of a useless moe blob -- but her fans who give her a double standard and excuse all of her flaws.  I like my characters flawed, thank you very much!  But God forbid anyone suggest Hinata-sama has one.... The Church of Hinata is quick to rage and forgive her things they censure in other characters.  (Prime example: fangirliness.)



You must dislike a lot of characters then.


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## Amatérasu’s Son (Apr 4, 2010)

I don't understand how her character would require redemption.

She has grown a lot. Her primary character trait in the beginning was an absolute lack of confidence. Her secondary character trait was an almost complete understanding of Naruto, his pain, and his motivations. Of all the people in Konoha when he was a child she knew he was in pain and chose to express and seek confidence and happiness. She knew he was strong. And through that she was motivated. 

In the Chunin Exam his active motivation of her allowed her to overcome her confidence issues and stand up to Neji, when she normally would've passed out. And then she sought to improve herself further.

By Part 2 though still shy she's become strong enough and confident enough to make chunin. And she developed enough raw courage for the person she loved to take on god himself....so to speak. She had no expectation of victory and did it anyway. And even though she was almost instantly curbstomped, her actions triggered KN6, snatching victory from the jaws of defeat. If being willing to sacrifice yourself for love and the greater good isn't redeeming I don't know what is. She's golden in my book.

And then she didn't need a return of her affections. That's a misconception around here brought on by our expectations. Hinata has never actively sought Naruto's approval, affection, or attention. She's happy enough to know that he is alive and happy. Sakura breaks through the crowd and hugs him, she doesn't go chomping at the bit like Ino or Sakura would've been if the other was hugging Sasuke. She smiles.

Though she's seen as a stalker with a crush, she's not a psycho stalker with a crush. The confession was more about her coming out of her shell and having the confidence to tell him come hell or high water. Probably helped by the fact that she expected to die. She was a little selfish, but she was just doing her best....and in the words of my man Asakura Yoh, "It all worked out in the end".

In addition it's kind of hard to see any major faults in Hinata's character aside from the fact that the only times she appears are when all of the Konoha 11 are present OR when the scene specifically requires her to be there. Which is few and sadly far between especially in the manga's currently Uchiha-Senju centric state.

Though some would deride her centering her motivations around the boy she loves, what teenage girl doesn't in some way? Hell teenager period. Love has a dominating effect like that. It's not like that is the only issue in her life. She's trying to live up to being the heiress to her clan, when her father really didn't have that much faith in her, she had to deal with a cousin who generally hated her guts for no reason.

Unlike Lee who was a dropout who's mentor expected great things from him, or Naruto who was a dropout who had no one to expect anything of him either way, Hinata was a dropout who was expected to be a genius-yet the person expecting it had no expectation that she could. That's failure stacked with disappointment. Ouch. I'd say she's come a long way.

If anything the only bad thing about Hinata as it stands now, is that like the other support crew, she doesn't get enough character development. Especially after the way Kishi treated them in Part 1, the fact that only Shikamaru has had any real time to showcase how far he's actually come in Part 2 is a bit disgraceful. I suppose I'll blame executive meddling. Especially after considering the Zombie Twins Arc.


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## Yakkai (Apr 4, 2010)

All it would take is a writer that gave a damn about her. She's a good character with a lot of promise (like quite a few Naruto characters) that has not been allowed to blossom. The main thing about her is that she hasn't developed any since Part 1, when you boil it down. Thats the same problem everyone in this manga has, even Sasuke.


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## Farih (Apr 4, 2010)

She hasn't done anything to be redeemed for.  Personally, I think her theme in the story is over and she played it well.  She overcame her shyness, was actually bold for a few minutes and risked her live to save someone.  That's something Part 1 Hinata would've liked to do but couldn't do, so I think her character's come full circle.

She doesn't need redemption.  Panel time would be nice, but she probably won't get any.


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## gabzilla (Apr 4, 2010)

An author that cares?


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## The Duchess (Apr 4, 2010)

~riku~ said:


> No, you said she DID go back on it!


Chill. And read carefully. 

I said she would be going back on her nindo _if she officially stopped being a ninja_, which she has not done. 



> And it WOULD warrant hatred since haters pick on any little thing they can use to hate, so something like that would just be another thing to bash Hinata about. It's like Sakura's goals, they're all based on Sasuke/Naruto (mainly Sasuke). If Sakura had her own goal then nobody would hate her for being 'pairing fodder'. Sakura is just based on Naruto/Sasuke.


I said it wouldn't warrant hatred _from me_. I can't speak for the rest of the anti-Hinata fandom.



> who are you


Doesn't this kind of stuff bring back any memories from the Battledome/KL?


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## Seto Kaiba (Apr 4, 2010)

It was like Kishi was intent on destroying her character last arc. She's pretty much damaged beyond repair. Although, getting over her unhealthy infatuations and more development of her skills could salvage something positive.


----------



## ElementX (Apr 4, 2010)

Hinata's fine. She just suffers from two things:

1. She is a side character in Shippuden.
2. She is a female character in Naruto. 

What she needs is more panel time, an actual fight would be nice. But hey at least she got her moment in the spotlight. Like some people said her story is pretty much over now. As a Hinata fan, I wish for more, but she definitely doesn't need to redeem herself.


----------



## IDGabrielHM (Apr 4, 2010)

gabzilla said:


> An author that cares?


Actually yeah, that's a pretty good answer.
If Kishi wanted her to be likable I bet he _could_ pull it off.




Sidenote: a lot of people are saying she should get over her infatuation with Sasuke.  I disagree; it's the only thing she's got going for her anymore.

If Sasuke finally does fall in love with her, then she'll at least have finally, Finally, accomplished one of her goals.


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## Seto Kaiba (Apr 4, 2010)

IDGabrielHM said:


> Actually yeah, that's a pretty good answer.
> If Kishi wanted her to be likable I bet he _could_ pull it off.
> 
> 
> ...



No. It's the worst thing she's got going for her, as with Naruto, the issue of Sasuke is a detriment to their character. How could anyone honestly believe that it's a good thing after all the shit that happened this arc? I mean seriously, come on now. It hasn't and will not do her character any good.


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## Safer Saviour (Apr 4, 2010)

Well for a start, someone other than Kishimoto would need to be writing her...


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## Saunion (Apr 4, 2010)

IDGabrielHM said:


> Sidenote: a lot of people are saying she should get over her infatuation with Sasuke.  I disagree; it's the only thing she's got going for her anymore.
> 
> If Sasuke finally does fall in love with her, then she'll at least have finally, Finally, accomplished one of her goals.



First you think Sakura could own her own against Sasuke and Naruto, then you say her infatuation with Sasuke is the last good thing about her? Ok you're clearly trolling now. 

And even if Sasuke fell in love with her (lol), it'd be at 99% thanks to Naruto. She'd only be leeching off Naruto bringing back Sasuke to the good side, as we saw this past arc by herself she has zero notable influence on the Sauce.


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## Yakushi Kabuto (Apr 4, 2010)

I would like Hinata to grow strong because she wants to grow for herself, not for someone else. For some reason I'm fine with other characters becoming better because of their friends. When it comes to Hinata I don't feel the same way probably because she is so withdrawn. And I also don't really like it when characters do that whole I'm going to die for you thing when they know it will amount to nothing. But ah well, that's the way she is, can't mold all characters to what I want. Just her being a little bit more involved in a move that isn't a sacrifice would be nice.


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## Selva (Apr 4, 2010)

gabzilla said:


> An author that cares?


This.
There are too many wasted potentials (and characters) in this manga.


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## Santeira (Apr 4, 2010)

If she were penalized for her actions I might consider not criticizing her. She's too terrible right now.


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## Kiss (Apr 4, 2010)

I'd like to see her fight someone. I hate it when she does nothing but cry. 

I don't know why Kishi doesn't develop the supposed heroine of this manga.  -_-


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## Drunkenwhale (Apr 4, 2010)

All Hinata needs to do is to stand on her own two feet and not use Naruto as a crutch for her development.


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## Santeira (Apr 4, 2010)

^ I don't think she used Naruto as 'crutch' for her development. Naruto ignored her, what she achieved, she achieved on her own.


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## Amrun (Apr 4, 2010)

Santeira said:


> ^ I don't think she used Naruto as 'crutch' for her development. Naruto ignored her, what she achieved, she achieved on her own.



I wish I could feel this way about her, but her entire psyche has always evolved about what men think about her and what she thinks about men and it fundamentally bothers me.

She's not alone in this plight, though.


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## Santeira (Apr 4, 2010)

Amrun said:


> I wish I could feel this way about her, but her entire psyche has always evolved about what men think about her and what she thinks about men and it fundamentally bothers me.
> 
> She's not alone in this plight, though.



Men? What men? Having a 'crutch' means she takes support from them directly. Naruto didn't help her directly--what Hinata achieved was her own efforts. The 3 female rookies are like this, not just Hinata at least the prominent ones are like this. 

The only one with own goal is Tenten, but that's not the point I was making.



> but her entire psyche has always evolved about what men think about her and what she thinks about men and it fundamentally bothers me.



It's not Sakura we're talking about here.


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## Skeith (Apr 4, 2010)

Just some Panel time and a fight with an enemy.


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## Kusogitsune (Apr 4, 2010)

She kills a high-tier villain by shooting shurikens out of her titties, that'd redeem her in my eyes.


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## AceBizzle (Apr 4, 2010)

Neji: "Once a failure, always a failure!"


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## Battoumaru (Apr 4, 2010)

Are you guys doubting Hinata-sama?

If anyone needs to be redeemed... It's Sakura*-kun*.


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## Setas1999 (Apr 4, 2010)

hm...waht about bed work with naruto.


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## ~riku~ (Apr 4, 2010)

The Duchess said:


> Chill. And read carefully.
> 
> I said she would be going back on her nindo _if she officially stopped being a ninja_, which she has not done.



I re-read, you didn't really articulate yourself too clearly, but I understand now that you were speaking of a hypothetical situation.



> I said it wouldn't warrant hatred _from me_. I can't speak for the rest of the anti-Hinata fandom.





> Doesn't this kind of stuff bring back any memories from the Battledome/KL?



No, I forget everything. Why do you always get name changes? DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND HOW CONFUSING IT GETS?! And I liked Missy better than this one, you just look like a nobody now


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## Pervy Fox (Apr 4, 2010)

Getting killed without everyone fucking saving her everytime


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## shurei (Apr 4, 2010)

Hinata is sweet but boring. She did all she could and came full circle.


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## NarutoIzDaMan (Apr 4, 2010)

There isn't anything to redeem, she is a side character who had her one shining moment in 437 and is now over and done with. I don't hate Hinata but I also can't find myself to like her. Her shy and submissive personality just isn't all that appealing and more importantly, she doesn't get enough panel time to be relevant enough to the plot. She's just....there, in the background (literally). I have a hard time caring for a character that has had what, maybe 5-10 minutes of total panel time throughout the entire manga up to now?


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## Dejablue (Apr 4, 2010)

BGtymin said:


> Something seems wrong here. Can't put my finger on it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hah. Well please allow me revise what I said before. Yeah I hung about in her Anti-FC but I also hang around her regular fanclub equally as much.  And I didn't need the influence of either club for me to think about Hinata's character the way I do now.


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## runsakurarun (Apr 4, 2010)

Her fandom and their hypocrisy is what irks me the most. I used to like Hinata until she kept showing up in the sets of Sakura bashers. Funny how they label other characters as useless pairing fodder when Hinata's only goal is to get acknowledged by Naruto and her biggest achievement was her confession.

Hinata-chanhimesamakamekun's fans should be happy that Naruto didn't give her his reply. There's nothing left for her character after Naruto's decision.          

They are reasonable and forgive her for her weaknesses but can't seem to do so for other characters.


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## Dejablue (Apr 4, 2010)

Also it was never my intent to compare her to Sakura or any other female in this topic.  If I could edit the title of this thread I'd take the word 'redeem' out of it. Buuut it seems you can't edit titles so...  @ Myself


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## ~riku~ (Apr 4, 2010)

Dejablue said:


> Also it was never my intent to compare her to Sakura or any other female in this topic.  If I could edit the title of this thread I'd take the word 'redeem' out of it. Buuut it seems you can't edit titles so...  @ Myself



Do you even know what the word 'redeem' means?



			
				Dictionary.com said:
			
		

> to make up for; make amends for; offset (some fault, shortcoming



What did Hinata do wrong so that she needs to redeem herself?

Sasuke did a lot of things wrong, for example, using people. If there was a thread called; How Can Sasuke Redeem Himself? there wouldn't be any questionings because he HAS done things wrong.

But Hinata? She's a SIDE character that's BARELY SHOWN. What has she even done at all other than save Naruto?


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## Mei Lin (Apr 4, 2010)

Killing a zombie Akatsuki?


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## Dejablue (Apr 4, 2010)

Well Hinata does have her faults.  And in my OP I made mention of people who don't like her character. I wanted to know what *would* it take for them to like her.

But I'm beginning to discover that Hinata 'haters' probably don't really have anything against Hinata. Just her fans.


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## ~riku~ (Apr 4, 2010)

Dejablue said:


> Well Hinata does have her faults.  And in my OP I made mention of people who don't like her character. I wanted to know what *would* it take for them to like her.



Faults =/= doing something wrong or bad.


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## Tobi-kun01 (Apr 4, 2010)

Why does Hinata have to do something to redeem herself? 

She hasn't done anything wrong. Sakura =/= Hinata
In fact she has saved the main character's life while the pink heroine did nothing.


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## Ayana (Apr 4, 2010)

Redeeming herself? There is no point for it.
But she could start finally doing something useful. Currently she's only a background decoration.


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## Tiller (Apr 4, 2010)

She's a background character in a manga where even the main characters have been sanded down to one dimension ideals. IF she was going to be "redeemed" she'd need a story arc that would actually matter, which Kishi doesn't do anymore.

I find her character boring and full of cliches. She's the girl who's father is disappointed in her, because she has little talent. Which means she's the stereotypical "loser with a heart of gold", who with hard work and dedication is suppose to become something amazing. She's the ugly duckling who is suppose to become a swan. In other words she is a stereotypical character that is found in most stories directed at children. Her character is there for the shy, socially awkward, daddy issue, and overall outcast individuals to connect with. In that regard she has elements in common with Naruto, Gaara, Sasuke, and other "outsider" characters in the story. The big difference though is she is a woman, so Kishi made her submissive instead of aggressive.

Unfortunately (for her fans) after playing the part of a plot device, she no longer serves any purpose in the story. She only shows up with the rest of the Rookie 9, and doesn't even contribute to most conversations. Her time has passed in the story, unless Kishi is going to do a 180 and suddenly make her important. That is unlikely to happen.  He doesn't even bother to develop his main characters anymore.


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## Jiraiya4Life (Apr 4, 2010)

Hinata is pretty boss. She gots some balls even tho she cnt use them. Thats logically AND theoretically.


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## KAKASHI10 (Apr 4, 2010)

KAKASHI10 said:


> She actually has been the only character besides Sasuke, Kabuto and madara that have actually made some type of progress is their development as characters.
> *She will not be head of the family bevause WE ALL KNOW that NEJI will be the next head of the family breaking the " desteny or what ever crap he talk about in part 1"*
> 
> She already confess to naruto IN PUBLIC.
> ...





Starr said:


> @the bolded, that is not necessarily true, but believe whatever it is you want to believe.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


do you want to bet on it?
I think that   my original post sums up everything about this OP thread and topic.


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## RealaMoreno (Apr 4, 2010)

hhansddfs said:


> Whats so fucking cliche about her, for an idea, she's pretty poriginal and you just emphasized what makes her more or less unqiue for a character of her status quo.
> 
> Boring? Fucking Sasuke is boring, Hinata is kawaii!



You're making me lol.


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## Kurama (Apr 4, 2010)

The thing with Hinata fans is, no, we don't think of her as flawless and perfect. It's just that the flaws her haters bash her for are ridiculous. 

You hate her because she's shy? I could've sworn her character theme was "By believing in yourself, you become a new person". Her entire character development revolves around breaking through that crippling shyness, which she achieved fully in the fight with Pein. So there's nothing needed to be fixed here.

You hate her because she's better endowed than your favorite female character? Tough. But just because she has boobs and hips doesn't make her a fat whore. She actually has a figure. As far as her eyes and face goes, Ino, Temari, Gaara and Neji all have pupiless eyes, gonna hate them too?

You hate her because she's yet to actually win a fight? Well, neither has Kiba, and Lee's only victory was against Pre-Chidori Sasuke. What was the claim about fans thinking she's flawless again? Sure I hope she gets a fight down the line and kicks some ass and shows what those lions can do, but don't all fans want that for a favorite character?

The "She should just give up on Naruto and go with Kiba" claims are amusing, since they either come from Kiba fans who want him with a girl, or NaruSaku fans. Funny how suddenly Naruto becomes equal to Sasuke in this situation. All the wonderful qualities Naruto has as reason why Sakura should love him instead of Sasuke go out the window when it comes to Hinata.

I don't get what's so wrong about her drawing inspiration from Naruto to keep going. Sakura draws inspiration from Naruto, Sasuke and Lee. Gaara is inspired by Naruto. Neji and Shikamaru too. Naruto himself draws inspiration from Sasuke, Jiraiya, Minato, and at two moments Hinata herself. Lee draws inspiration from Gai, Tenten from Tsunade. But Hinata gets hate because she happened to fall in love in the process.

She does not need to be redeemed. Her character simply needs to have its potential fully explored. We need to see the Hyuuga heiress side of her character. She's already been useful to her team. She's already confronted Naruto with her feelings, eliminating her crippling self confidence [while not becoming completely extroverted]. Now all her character needs for closure is resolution with her family. But whether Kishi will explore it or not is doubtful, but remains to be seen.


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## Sharingan-Uchiha (Apr 4, 2010)

Im not much of a fan of Hinata myself, I find Kishi is terrible with making females and I find the majority of the "girly" ones incredibly unklikable but I dont think she has done anything that requite redeeming has she? she tried to protect the love of her life even if she did just get one shotted, she still tried.


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## Tiller (Apr 4, 2010)

hhansddfs said:


> Whats so fucking cliche about her, for an idea, she's pretty poriginal and you just emphasized what makes her more or less unqiue for a character of her status quo.
> 
> Boring? Fucking Sasuke is boring, Hinata is kawaii!



Boring. She is a stereotype. She is the shy girl who's father bullies her around, because she doesn't live up to his expectations. This point is driven home further by the fact that her father see's her young sister as his heir, in other words passing over Hinata, because she isn't good enough for him. Her birthright as first born is rejected, because she doesn't live up to the standards her father has set.

Despite that she is kind, and friendly. In other words her character is the "loser with a heart of gold". Like other "heart of gold" characters (whore with a heart of gold, rogue with a heart of gold, thief with a heart of gold, fighter with a heart of gold) the reason for her existence is to retell the ugly duckling story in a different way. The stereotype character arc runs as followed.

She is rejected by someone who is an authority figure, because she is "ugly". She lacks confidence. She then becomes inspired in some way. Trains and finds herself, and is eventually reviled to be a "swan" deep down to the surprise of those who doubted her in the first place.

Since I know some people aren't quick on the uptake I'll write it out in simple English. She was rejected by her father, because she was a weak fighter, and didn't live up to what he wanted. She became hurt by this rejection, turning into a shy girl with little confidence in herself. She meets Naruto who inspires her to work hard like he does. She works hard, and by combat proves to her father that she is not as useless as he originally thought her to be.

Ugly Duckling----------------Swan.

This kind of character is known as a cliche, or a stereotype. There is nothing original in her origins, her story has been told time and time again since the beginning of storytelling. Her clan, her abilities, and her general history are all back details to retelling this story in a different context.


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## ~riku~ (Apr 4, 2010)

^ 

Don't feed the troll.

Or dupe.


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## Tiller (Apr 4, 2010)

~riku~ said:


> ^
> 
> Don't feed the troll.
> 
> Or dupe.



Very well if my premise is so wrong I give you this challenge. Describe Hinata's character without talking about what I call the stereotypical "loser with a heart of gold"/ugly duckling storyline, her profession, what she looks like, what costume she wears, or her social class. Describe the character like you would to a friend who has never heard of Naruto, and knows nothing about Hinata.

In other words you can't talk about her father rejecting her, her emotional trauma that comes from this family rejection, her redemption because of Naruto's example, her attempt to redeem herself by training and self discovery, and her development into a "swan" by proving herself in combat to her father, so he no longer see's her as useless like he did. Also called the ugly duckling/ loser with a heart of gold storyline.

If she is not a stereotype, she would have other character development. I'll be waiting for your response.


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## runsakurarun (Apr 4, 2010)

@riku
Umm he/she's the one feeding us the truth. Face it, Hinata falls under the cliched shy/insecure homely blushing fangirl. BORING.

The only way she can redeem herself if by taking over as the Hyuuga clan leader. But that won't happen cuz a. she's below Hanabi's level and b. she does not show any interest in other things other than Nardo-kun


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## shurei (Apr 4, 2010)

~riku~ said:


> ^
> 
> Don't feed the troll.
> 
> Or dupe.





Tiller speaks the truth. She is boring. She is a cliche. She is Hinata  and there is nothing original about her.


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## Tiller (Apr 4, 2010)

ronsakura1 said:


> @riku
> Umm he/she's the one feeding us the truth. Face it, Hinata falls under the cliched shy/insecure homely blushing fangirl. BORING.
> 
> The only way she can redeem herself if by taking over as the Hyuuga clan leader. But that won't happen cuz a. she's below Hanabi's level and b. she does not show any interest in other things other than Nardo-kun



I'm a guy, but thank you .


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## Naruku (Apr 4, 2010)

hurt sakura fappers venting their frustrations in a hinata thread. main characters in this manga are all cliches and boring. even naruto is based on the 'ugy duckling' stereotype. sakura is your usual boring tsundere and sasuke is your usual 'fallen' guy. apparently even for this you need to be redeemed. OP, anti-fc will find faults, they don't like hinata and will find the slightest thing they don't like to bash her. you waste your time and only feed the hurt saku fappers.


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## Koi (Apr 4, 2010)

Can there please be ONE FUCKING THREAD about Hinata where Sakura _isn't_ mentioned, or vice-versa?


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## Naruku (Apr 4, 2010)

blame it on the sakura fan , they were the one who brought her first. also naruto: from zero to jesus. cliche, it's a base of story. the writer makes the character that way why would there need be redemption? the difference is hinata is still not perfect and not really strong, unlike naruto,  loser with heart of gold, and now he's on a pathway to jesusery. he needs redemprion too if hinata needs redemption because of the stereotype. to rant that stereotype needs redemption is the most ridiculous whining i ever read.


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## Tiller (Apr 4, 2010)

Naruku said:


> hurt sakura fappers venting their frustrations in a hinata thread. main characters in this manga are all cliches and boring. even naruto is based on the 'ugy duckling' stereotype. sakura is your usual boring tsundere and sasuke is your usual 'fallen' guy. apparently even for this you need to be redeemed. OP, anti-fc will find faults, they don't like hinata and will find the slightest thing they don't like to bash her. you waste your time and only feed the hurt saku fappers.



I've actually made the point more then once about how horrible the overall storyline is, and how the main character instead of developing have been sanded down to base ideals. I've made this point multiple times. Hinata is no exception to this, despite what some people seem to think, and if only because she is a background character is even a worse example of a developed character then the main cast. Her redemption would require character arcs, and character development, but as I said before Kishi doesn't do that.

And for the sake of this debate, saying "Sakura sucks as a character to!!!" doesn't prove the Hinata isn't a stereotype.


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## Tiller (Apr 4, 2010)

Naruku said:


> blame it on the sakura fan , they were the one who brought her first. also naruto: from zero to jesus. cliche, it's a base of story. the writer makes the character that way why would there need be redemption? the difference is hinata is still not perfect and not really strong, unlike naruto,  loser with heart of gold, and now he's on a pathway to jesusery. he needs redemprion too if hinata needs redemption because of the stereotype. to rant that stereotype needs redemption is the most ridiculous whining i ever read.



You seem to lack logical thinking so I'll spell it out to you. Having more then one stereotype in a story, doesn't mean that the character you like isn't also a stereotype. If she isn't answer my challenge from above. If she was a well developed character, she wouldn't follow a stereotypical character arc.

To further help you along I'll give you one of the basics when it comes to debates. Pointing to something else that is wrong in order to attempt to help your cause doesn't answer the debate. Or in other words two wrongs don't make a right. 

When the question is "How can Hinata be redeemed?" and I make a point about how she is a stereotypical character, and the way for her character to be "redeemed" is by character development, you should try to respond to my points with an actual argument. Saying Sakura, and Naruto are stereotypes too, doesn't somehow mean that Hinata is not. If you want to prove that Hinata is a well developed character simply answer my challenge.



> Describe Hinata's character without talking about what I call the stereotypical "loser with a heart of gold"/ugly duckling storyline, her profession, what she looks like, what costume she wears, or her social class. Describe the character like you would to a friend who has never heard of Naruto, and knows nothing about Hinata.
> 
> In other words you can't talk about her father rejecting her, her emotional trauma that comes from this family rejection, her redemption because of Naruto's example, her attempt to redeem herself by training and self discovery, and her development into a "swan" by proving herself in combat to her father, so he no longer see's her as useless like he did. Also called the ugly duckling/ loser with a heart of gold storyline.
> 
> If she is not a stereotype, she would have other character development. I'll be waiting for your response.


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## HolyHands (Apr 4, 2010)

Tiller said:


> Boring. She is a stereotype. She is the shy girl who's father bullies her around, because she doesn't live up to his expectations. This point is driven home further by the fact that her father see's her young sister as his heir, in other words passing over Hinata, because she isn't good enough for him. Her birthright as first born is rejected, because she doesn't live up to the standards her father has set.
> 
> Despite that she is kind, and friendly. In other words her character is the "loser with a heart of gold". Like other "heart of gold" characters (whore with a heart of gold, rogue with a heart of gold, thief with a heart of gold, fighter with a heart of gold) the reason for her existence is to retell the ugly duckling story in a different way. The stereotype character arc runs as followed.
> 
> ...



Pretty much everything can be considered a cliche if you go that route. Actually, everything in a story IS a cliche since pretty much every single part of character development and plot has been done before. What makes it interesting is the context behind it. You brush off context as something unimportant, but in truth it is THE most important part of storytelling. You can have everything technically be a cliche but still have it be interesting just with the proper presentation, or context.

Of course, little of this applies to Hinata since her context is never explored, but I had to rant at your logic for a bit.


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## Psallo a Cappella (Apr 4, 2010)

Most of the decent characters have gone to hell in a handbasket at this point - frankly, I doubt Hinata will have the chance. We cannot even count on our main characters receiving a chance to seem less ridiculous.


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## AceBizzle (Apr 4, 2010)

I fear for NF if Hinata and Sakura ever fought


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## Naruku (Apr 4, 2010)

dude, we know she is a stereotypical character, like naruto, like sakura, like sasuke. so what the fuck is wrong with that? if at first a character is put in a less capable state they grow better or stronger, that's human development after they grow and train. for hinata's character to not be stereotype is whether she doesn't grow, be stagnant or go backward, which is anti-human development. in stories characters grow, so what do you want? perhaps she could kill her entire clan like itachi also so she wouldn't be stereotype, but that will make her a strong bullshit mary sue. all characters are stereotype if you narrow them down. you've seen everybody's character in some other story. so what's the big deal? 

i never said she isn't a stereotype, but what do you expect from that. naruto is a stereotype too, just because she's boring to you doesn't mean she's boring to her fans. they all are stereotype with different background stories and characteristics and different faces . so what?


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## Valtieri (Apr 4, 2010)

I've always found her very boring. 
Unless she actually does something that isn't completely ignored then she'll remain a boring, and in my opinion, useless character.
It's a shame really, she had potential in part 1.


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## Mei Lin (Apr 4, 2010)

Jab herself and get naruto on top


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## Rosie (Apr 4, 2010)

She needs to ditch the shy girl act and actually get a personality that doesn't suddenly appear only when Naruto is in danger 

Oh, and she should give up on Naruto too


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## EternallyStar (Apr 4, 2010)

Unfortunately, Hinata's only reason to exist is Naruto. As lame and pathetic as it sounds, it's true. The girl has no motivation besides him. And as much as I love her character, that has got to change...

Really, no ones existence should be dependent on another person.


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## Tiller (Apr 4, 2010)

Naruku said:


> dude, we know she is a stereotypical character, like naruto, like sakura, like sasuke. so what the fuck is wrong with that? if at first a character is put in a less capable state they grow better or stronger, that's human development after they grow and train. for hinata's character to not be stereotype is whether she doesn't grow, be stagnant or go backward, which is anti-human development. in stories characters grow, so what do you want? perhaps she could kill her entire clan like itachi also so she wouldn't be stereotype, but that will make her a strong bullshit mary sue. all characters are stereotype if you narrow them down. you've seen everybody's character in some other story. so what's the big deal?



I see you didn't get the point behind "pointing to other bad characters doesn't make the character you like special" argument.

I enjoy stories that actually have a point and purpose, where the characters have more then one overall quality, where they have a kind of personality that isn't dominated by one or two features. In other words if Hinata was going to be a well developed character, she would need to have more then one drive, you know like an actual human being. You seem to not understand that her stereotype characterization is what makes her a marry sue style character. A character that has no originality and is boring. And yes the entire manga has boiled down to that, but again that's not the point of this debate.

If you are going to argue that Hinata is special, and somehow such an amazing character that she rises above the rest in the storyline, you have to prove that she has had actual character development. Good luck with that btw.

And not all character are stereotypes, in fact most stories written for adults have characters that aren't one demoniacal with only one driving emotion in their life, they have multiple characteristics, some that even conflict within the character (otherwise known as an internal struggle). That's called giving your character development, or attempting to make them connectible with the audience by showing that they have an aspect of humanity in them. There have been actual manga's and comics that have done this time an again, even a few that are supposedly developed for children. The manga Naruto is not one of them, and Hinata is not an exception.

For example love stories that are written for people who want actual characters to have depth and development, would require more then just the character to stare at the guy she likes. That's lust not love. A well developed character would attempt to get to know them, go on dates, hang out with them, and see if their personalities develop with each other. Love is conveyed in a way that is subtle, where something develops over time, you know... like real life, where what happens in the story has an affect upon the character, which causes internal and external conflicts, this is called a story arc.  If this character does not have different aspects to their personality they lack depth that would make the character interesting, which also pulls down the interest in the overall storyline.

Without this realism your characters become stereotypical. They develop from a arc that has been played time and time again which means your character lacks originality or interest. Usually these stereotypes come from fables, or by taking characteristic of developed characters from other stories, without having the original character's depth. 

But I'm glad you at least are grasping at the point that this background character is really not amazing at all, and the only way she could be redeemed was to have actual character development.

As far as whats wrong with liking a stereotypical character? Nothing is wrong with it as long as you admit what it is. For example I love the Silver Age Superman stories,when Lois Lane was just Clark's friend, and she sat around all day fantasizing about Superman, hoping she will be a damsel in distress that he can save in the future. I don't pretend it's an amazingly developed plot, with great characters though. I love it for what it is, a corny little story.

The problem is many people won't admit that Hinata is just a stereotypical character. Some try to make her more then she is, or was ever meant to be.


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## Tiller (Apr 4, 2010)

HolyHands said:


> Pretty much everything can be considered a cliche if you go that route. Actually, everything in a story IS a cliche since pretty much every single part of character development and plot has been done before. What makes it interesting is the context behind it. You brush off context as something unimportant, but in truth it is THE most important part of storytelling. You can have everything technically be a cliche but still have it be interesting just with the proper presentation, or context.
> 
> Of course, little of this applies to Hinata since her context is never explored, but I had to rant at your logic for a bit.



There is a difference between a character who is created to have an emotional background that interacts with characters who also are developed to form a story, and a story that follows a stereotypical path. Not every character and storyline is a cliche, nor do they all run by stereotypical reasoning.

Hinata could have very easily had a similar storyline without becoming an outright stereotype. For example instead of Naruto's attitude being what drives Hinata to look inward for herself, she could have gone on a mission, figured out what actual combat was like, and reflected upon if she actually wanted to be a ninja. Maybe she would have discovered that killing people, and watching others die just isn't for her, so she decides to do something else with her life. She could have then had a conflict with her father stating how although she may not be a warrior at heart like he always demanded of her, she had other skills and talents that she wanted to use to bring a positive influence to her community, and that her father should stop trying to live threw her and her sister. She could have then argued with her father and made him see her for who she was, well then proving that she is more then happy to not be Clan Leader since she has no desire to live the ninja lifestyle. Then she could show her other talents, perhaps learning to be a ramen chief so she could impress some guy she has a crush on. Or maybe she finds out that she is an amazing artist, or saleswoman. Maybe she'd ask out Kiba just because and they find out they get along despite the difference in personality. Maybe she would be written as having more then two emotions.

Kishi could have then used this small side story to show how bad warfare, and a life a vengeance can be, by showing the positives that come from a relatively peaceful life as a merchant. Another time skip, and we see the Hinata has developed into a normal young woman who owns her own store and who gets along well with her family despite their original disappointment. Maybe she is a popular business woman who has brought in lots of commerce to the area. Maybe then she notices that the warrior lifestyle is taking it toll on her younger sister, so she has a heart to heart with her. Maybe attempt to tell her that her whole life doesn't need to be evolved in combat leadership, and maybe she could get a hobby to turn to when it's not time for training, or warfare... you know the same way Ancient Samurai developed art forms that had nothing to do with fighting, but still kept their minds sharp well also being a away for her to get away from all the death and violence at times. You know things that modern solders do.

Instead of doing something original like that, which would have been a surprising yet possibly more successful subplot, we got the whole ugly duckling story again. 

Daddy wants me to be warrior. I suck I can't be a warrior. Oh look at that boy he kind of sucks to but he can be a warrior! I can train and act like him and become a warrior. Look Daddy I proved I can be a warrior like you wanted!!

The other animals say I'm an ugly duckling. I suck I don't want to be ugly. But if I work at it and try hard I won't be. Oh look everyone I've grown up to be a beautiful swan!


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## Dejablue (Apr 4, 2010)

I'm going to have to say her drive needs to be revisited. Now that she's confessed......well she ain't dead. So she'll need a new directive.


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## Skeith (Apr 4, 2010)

ronsakura1 said:


> @riku
> Umm he/she's the one feeding us the truth. Face it, Hinata falls under the cliched shy/insecure homely blushing fangirl. BORING.
> 
> The only way she can redeem herself if by taking over as the Hyuuga clan leader.* But that won't happen cuz a. she's below Hanabi's level and b. she does not show any interest in other things other than Nardo-kun*



A) That was back in part 1. Never in Part 2 do they say that she is or isn't weaker than Hanabi. Don't assume.

B) She wanted to change. She wanted to become stronger, She wants to be more useful in missions, She wants to fight her father. All of this above Naruto.

Naruto inspire her and she loves him , but he doesn't govern everything she does. If all she was interested in was Naruto, *SHE* would of talked to Naruto as soon as he came back.


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## Dejablue (Apr 4, 2010)

I kinda liked Tiller's idea on the previous page. Though it may not be what I would ultimately prefer. I still want Hinata to be a warrior.  


I mean how many children who fail the Chunin exams decide to become merchants? (If they aren't killed) That's something I've never thought about before....


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## gabzilla (Apr 4, 2010)

The "she is a cliche/stereotype and that's why she sucks" argument is kinda funny considering almost every character in this manga is a walking cliche.


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## Tiller (Apr 4, 2010)

gabzilla said:


> The "she is a cliche/stereotype and that's why she sucks" argument is kinda funny considering almost every character in this manga is a walking cliche.



I know, and most other post I've made about the manga in general have argued that point. How the main cast has been sanded down, how the story doesn't make any sense anymore, and how the manga itself has fallen in quality considerably.

I'm not arguing that Naruto, and the rest of the cast are great characters that should be studied in Japanese Literature 101 (they are cliche ridden and boring as hell as well in many ways, and for people that know me my disappoint in the story isn't a secret), I am arguing that there is nothing special about Hinata, and her character isn't well developed, and that if she is going to be "redeemed" Kishi is going to have to bother to develop her. Which as I've said before is unlikely to happen. 

I'm basically a person who once was a big fan of the manga, but I can no longer enjoy it like I did once, because it's just gotten worse as time has moved on. I think character development has been forgotten, entire arcs no longer matter, and the storyline has been patched together to the point were it makes no sense what so ever, but this really isn't the place for it, this is just about Hinata.


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## ensoriki (Apr 4, 2010)

Skeith said:


> A) That was back in part 1. Never in Part 2 do they say that she is or isn't weaker than Hanabi. Don't assume.


Unless there is some specific reason Kishi creates for why Hinata would be stronger than Hanabi, she isn't.
Hinabi while apparently NOT Neji in term's of talent is significantly more talented than Hinata. The gap is widened because we know for fact that Hiashi cast Hinata away as a failure while he rigorously trained Hanabi, leaving Hanabi to actually have thorough training that Hinata lacked, and with Hanabi having natural talent this only makes it harder for Hinata. When you look at Naruto he is where he is because of what....what he's been taught. He may be an unpredictable ninja, but he LEARNED Kage bushin, he learned Sage mode, he learned Rasegan, ergo other than some scroll he was taught, by good teachers. Hinata had Kurenei and while Kurenei's value is unknown, she's not a Hyuuga.
According to the Pain arc, Hiashi still takes Hanabi with him, which implies they still train together. If Hanabi has more talent than her sister and has been taught by her father throughout her lifespan, there is no reason why she would not be a stronger fighter at the Gentle fist style than Hinata.
We've yet to be informed that Hinata has picked up ANY other style to make up for her insufficiency at gentle fist, because of this there is no reason to assume that Hinata IS stronger than Hanabi. Hanabi being the stronger of the two is the most likely, and logically the better assumption.



> B) She wanted to change. She wanted to become stronger, She wants to be more useful in missions, She wants to fight her father. All of this above Naruto.


She wanted to change so that she could be acknowledged and not deemed useless...like Naruto, all the strength she gets to BE somebody she draws from Naruto whether he is there or not, that is her character. Naruto is her crutch and the light that guides her whether you find that sad or not is up to you, however she does have other things than him in mind, but all those are only achievable because he lets her go to new heights involuntarily.



> Naruto inspire her and she loves him , but he doesn't govern everything she does. If all she was interested in was Naruto, *SHE* would of talked to Naruto as soon as he came back.


Her ambition's mimic Naruto's or are a result of him inspiring her. Outside of her goals sure he doesn't but in term's of what she wants to be, it's basically all him.
She didn't talk to Naruto when he came back because she was shy (beginning of part 2) at the Pein arc she didn't talk to him because while she confessed it didn't mean she suddenly wasn't a shy person, you'd be daft to think otherwise, she's still very much timid in her speech, in addition Naruto was already being comforted, pushing her out of the picture.


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## Specter Von Baren (Apr 4, 2010)

Tiller said:


> I know, and most other post I've made about the manga in general have argued that point. How the main cast has been sanded down, how the story doesn't make any sense anymore, and how the manga itself has fallen in quality considerably.
> 
> I'm not arguing that Naruto, and the rest of the cast are great characters that should be studied in Japanese Literature 101 (they are cliche ridden and boring as hell as well in many ways, and for people that know me my disappoint in the story isn't a secret), I am arguing that there is nothing special about Hinata, and her character isn't well developed, and that if she is going to be "redeemed" Kishi is going to have to bother to develop her. Which as I've said before is unlikely to happen.
> 
> I'm basically a person who once was a big fan of the manga, but I can no longer enjoy it like I did once, because it's just gotten worse as time has moved on. I think character development has been forgotten, entire arcs no longer matter, and the storyline has been patched together to the point were it makes no sense what so ever, but this really isn't the place for it, this is just about Hinata.



I'm curious but do you think there are ANY three dimensional characters in this manga? Like an example of a character that isn't two dimensional?


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## The Duchess (Apr 4, 2010)

~riku~ said:


> I re-read, you didn't really articulate yourself too clearly, but I understand now that you were speaking of a hypothetical situation.


Grammer nazi. 



> No, I forget everything. Why do you always get name changes? DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND HOW CONFUSING IT GETS?! And I liked Missy better than this one, you just look like a nobody now


It just takes some time to get used to is all! 

A nobody? 



kyuubi425 said:


> The thing with Hinata fans is, no, we don't think of her as flawless and perfect. It's just that the flaws her haters bash her for are ridiculous.
> 
> You hate her because she's shy? I could've sworn her character theme was "By believing in yourself, you become a new person". Her entire character development revolves around breaking through that crippling shyness, which she achieved fully in the fight with Pein. So there's nothing needed to be fixed here.
> 
> ...


Why do you ALWAYS bring up NaruSaku, Kyuubi?

You're so butthurt against the mere _mention_ of "that pairing" ("amg hinata nawt getting what she wants? NUUU") that you bring it up more than any average NaruSaku fan does. 



Koi said:


> Can there please be ONE FUCKING THREAD about Hinata where Sakura _isn't_ mentioned, or vice-versa?


No Koi. Obviously anybody who doesn't love Hinachan is just a butthurt Sakura fan.


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## N120 (Apr 4, 2010)

She doesnt need to redeem herself tbh, she's done better than the main female lead with the few panels she's had.


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## Drunkenwhale (Apr 4, 2010)

Santeira said:


> ^ I don't think she used Naruto as 'crutch' for her development. Naruto ignored her, what she achieved, she achieved on her own.



She's using Naruto's determination and his never give up attitude as her own. If Naruto didn't try his hardest Hinata wouldn't work as hard herself, hence using him as her crutch.

And with what her confession goes by, that did not stop and she continues to use Naruto's ideals in order to improve herself.

Finally, what exactly is she trying to do with improving herself? She's not trying to prove to her father that she's worthy of being the heir, she makes no mention of that. But...



> I was always chasing you... wanting to overtake you... I just wanted to talk to you... I wanted to be with you...



Hinata's entire character pretty much revolves around Naruto...

So what it would take for Hinata to redeem herself would be to find herself a realistic goal and work towards that instead of using Naruto and his ideals as a crutch. That's what she needs to do to redeem herself as a character.


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## Dejablue (Apr 4, 2010)

Hah lower the grammar standards for some of us Americans too. 

 But anyway. Yes @ Drunkwhale. Hinata needs to plot a new course. What does Hinata want to do for *herself* ?


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## Farih (Apr 4, 2010)

> The "She should just give up on Naruto and go with Kiba" claims are amusing, since they either come from Kiba fans who want him with a girl, or NaruSaku fans. Funny how suddenly Naruto becomes equal to Sasuke in this situation. All the wonderful qualities Naruto has as reason why Sakura should love him instead of Sasuke go out the window when it comes to Hinata.



I love this.  ONE person in the entire thread brings up KibaHina and all of a sudden, it starts getting reduced to a NaruSaku sideship by the leader of the ANS.   Way to generalize.

Anyway, I would say Hinata needs a new plot, but I truly believe her part to the story is over.  I don't think Kishi has enough time to fix the damage he's caused to Sakura, not to mention he has a ton of plot lines as it is, so I can't see how Hinata and more development for her fits into the series.


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## Dark World Lightning (Apr 4, 2010)

The closest character in this manga that comes to being three-dimensional is Uchiha Madara, and that is some sad shit because his motivations boil down to 'get Jyuubi, take over the world'.


Anyway, I hate Hinata because of her aborted/cyclic character development. I hate her for the same reason I hate Sakura and Orihime. I don't mind the fact that she's shy and boy-crazy, I don't mind the fact that she's an ugly duckling who doesn't have confidence in herself. I don't mind the fact that she has a crush on someone who barely notices her and that it drives her development.

I mind the fact that the point of her character was to be someone who grew out of all of that shit and she FAILED MISERABLY at it. But then she ended up getting stuffed into the fridge and going 'hurr, Naruto is ignoring me, I just want him to be happy!' with a gormless smile on her face.

This has been going on for quite some time and she's not even the biggest victim of this effect (that would be either Naruto or Sakura), but in Hinata's case it really rubs me the wrong way because like Orihime there's a disgusting element of sexism in the way that she gets shoved to the side despite wanting to try really hard.

NaruHina and NaruSaku fans should thus shut the fuck up for all eternity. Sakura and Hinata might have started out as divergent characters, but they both ended up as exactly the same. Two failure heroines who wanted so hard to be brave and powerful but got put in their place due to incredibly bad writing of female characters on Kishimoto's part and are willingly standing in the sidelines smiling as the MEN do their thing.

Gag me with a spoon. :sick


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## Drunkenwhale (Apr 4, 2010)

Dark World Lightning said:


> The closest character in this manga that comes to being three-dimensional is Uchiha Madara, and that is some sad shit because his motivations boil down to 'get Jyuubi, take over the world'.
> 
> 
> Anyway, I hate Hinata because of her aborted/cyclic character development. I hate her for the same reason I hate Sakura and Orihime. I don't mind the fact that she's shy and boy-crazy, I don't mind the fact that she's an ugly duckling who doesn't have confidence in herself. I don't mind the fact that she has a crush on someone who barely notices her and that it drives her development.
> ...



Yes!!! SIMPLY YES!!!


Unfortunately, Japan is among one of the most sexist societies in the world and the pairing fans won't ever shut the fuck up.

But still, win.


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## toriyama (Apr 4, 2010)

> Why does Hinata have to do something to redeem herself?
> 
> She hasn't done anything wrong. Sakura =/= Hinata
> In fact she has saved the main character's life while the pink heroine did nothing.





> I agree with this posting....except the hinata stop loving Naruto....but it is true that she'll do better off without her crush on him...But at least her crush wasn't like sakura's shallow source of affection for Sasuke....
> 
> As for redemption...most people don't like her cause she's secondary character with a fandom to rival the herione sakura's (last fav charcter poll Sakura 12th ,Hinata 13th )...yes the overated thing...And the rest is Pairing war related



These are the kind of posts that makes me believe Hinata fans are radical Sakura bashers, and it's only a minority of them. And the OP clearly stated he didn't want Hinata/Sakura comparison. Guess the minority of them couldn't stand Hinata's flaws being pointed out, so they used Sakura as a scapegoat as a desperate attempt saying HINATA IS BETTER! If people really love Hinata they should accept her flaws rather than being in denial.

Well, Sakura isn't a good character so comparing Hinata with _only_ her just shows that you can't defend Hinata in any other way No wonder there is nobody comparing Hinata with Temari, Karui, or Karin.


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## N120 (Apr 4, 2010)

toriyama said:


> These are the kind of posts that makes me believe Hinata fans are radical Sakura bashers, and it's only a minority of them. And the OP clearly stated he didn't want Hinata/Sakura comparison. Guess the minority of them couldn't stand Hinata's flaws being pointed out, so they used Sakura as a scapegoat as a desperate attempt saying HINATA IS BETTER! If people really love Hinata they should accept her flaws rather than being in denial.
> 
> Well, Sakura isn't a good character so comparing Hinata with _only_ her just shows that you can't defend Hinata in any other way No wonder there is nobody comparing Hinata with Temari, Karui, or Karin.



Im not a Hinata fan, but i am a sakura hater. just thought i'd make that clear.


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## Drunkenwhale (Apr 4, 2010)

toriyama said:


> These are the kind of posts that makes me believe Hinata fans are radical Sakura bashers, and it's only a minority of them. And the OP clearly stated he didn't want Hinata/Sakura comparison. Guess the minority of them couldn't stand Hinata's flaws being pointed out, so they used Sakura as a scapegoat as a desperate attempt saying HINATA IS BETTER! If people really love Hinata they should accept her flaws rather than being in denial.
> 
> Well, Sakura isn't a good character so comparing Hinata with _only_ her just shows that you can't defend Hinata in any other way No wonder there is nobody comparing Hinata with Temari, Karui, or Karin.



You could take a point that they are pulling the double standards of using Sakura because she's either a threat to NaruHina (which will be laughed off but it's true in some cases) or because Sakura's the one with the most panel time, and comparing Hinata to Sakura is a better comparison. Granted, comparing Hinata to the other characters mentioned would be better because they, like Hinata are not as high up in character rank.


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## Tiller (Apr 4, 2010)

Specter Von Baren said:


> I'm curious but do you think there are ANY three dimensional characters in this manga? Like an example of a character that isn't two dimensional?



The closest who is around now is Kakashi. Which largely has to do with the fact that he got his own series for a little while between the time skip. You can see his development, how he interacted with characters, how those characters interacted with him, and how the war and the death of his friends had an actual affect on his life. There are character, that interacting according to a plot, there is multiple aspect of conflicts, and characters change once the conflict has been resolved. It was a effective arc. You get the feeling that the story had a purpose.

You get the feeling that Kakashi has been affected by what's happened in his life, but that it isn't the only part of his character. I wouldn't call him three demoniacal but he is the closest there is. Over the course of the story we see an arc, even though we only get the background between the time skips. To me Kakashi meeting his father had more of an emotional impact then the rest of the entire Pain Arc.


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## VioNi (Apr 4, 2010)

Can we drop the Sakura vs Hinata conversation damn it? This is about Hinata as a person. Not naruhina, narusaku ect ect.


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## Almaseti (Apr 4, 2010)

Guys, Hinata doesn't try hard to better herself because she loves Naruto.  She loves Naruto because he makes her believe that it's possible to better yourself through hard work. 

And I honestly find the idea that she needs to "have a personality that doesn't revolve around Naruto/her family" confusing.  Everyone is shaped by their pasts and current situation. It would be like saying Naruto needs to stop being a jinchuuriki. It makes no sense. It's how the person deals with those things that makes the difference and defines what their personality is.


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## Drunkenwhale (Apr 4, 2010)

LadyVioNi said:


> Can we drop the Sakura vs Hinata conversation damn it? This is about Hinata as a person. Not naruhina, narusaku ect ect.



Sorry... (Of course I don't speak for everyone else.)

I've made my post that dealt with the thread, I'm done. (Moment I say that.)



Almaseti said:


> And I honestly find the idea that she needs to "have a personality that doesn't revolve around Naruto/her family" confusing.  Everyone is shaped by their pasts and current situation.  It's how the person deals with those things that makes the difference.



It makes Hinata seem less one dimensional if she stood on her own two feet.

True, everyone is shaped by their past but to step into the future on their own is the ultimate reward, because that's what growing up is all about: being able to take care of yourself on your own.


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## Ryunnosuke (Apr 4, 2010)

She needs character development in the form of getting naked and sexing up Naruto. Then let the fun times begin as Hyuuga forces Kyuubi boy in a shotgun wedding.


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## hehey (Apr 4, 2010)

Hinata should just grab Naruto and kiss him. That right there would make her awesome.


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## VioNi (Apr 4, 2010)

Drunkenwhale said:


> Sorry... (Of course I don't speak for everyone else.)
> 
> I've made my post that dealt with the thread, I'm done. (Moment I say that.)
> 
> ...



Tis okay darling


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## Drunkenwhale (Apr 4, 2010)

Last post in this thread:



Ryunnosuke said:


> She needs character development in the form of getting naked and sexing up Naruto. Then let the fun times begin as Hyuuga forces Kyuubi boy in a shotgun wedding.





hehey said:


> Hinata should just grab Naruto and kiss him. That right there would make her awesome.


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## Dark World Lightning (Apr 4, 2010)

And for the record, I don't really give a rat's ass if Hinata did all this just to gain the attention of/protect Naruto. That's a common motivation for heroes in this very damn manga, including the protagonist himself.

I do mind that she failed to do advance an inch character-wise. It's like her character stopped growing after the Neji/Hina fight. At least she hasn't wasted as much goddamn time on-panel with her failure to grow up like... well, everyone in this fucking manga.

...

I think the best thing for her character would be to be simultaneously rejected by Kiba, Naruto, and (as long as we're covering our bases) Gaara and Neji. At least for the time being, until the the manga made a concentrated effort not to show her anymore unless it's related to developing her beyond 'Moeblob housewife ninja'.

Unfortunately, that would completely kill off any reason for her part II character to exist unless Kishimoto wants to resurrect that Hyuuga house plothook. And why should the author do that? After all, it's not like his manga has had recently picked up the theme about aborting a cycle of revenge and Naruto improving the ninja world and never going back on his old promises and healing decades-old political wounds...

Oh, wait...


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## Skeith (Apr 4, 2010)

Wow....The hate is starting to take root.


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## Fruits Basket Fan (Apr 4, 2010)

This fucking sucks how pairings are brought up whenever Hinata is mentioned !!!!


This just shows she is just pairing fodder and nothing more !!!!



But anyway, as much as I am apathetic toward Hinata,  most of the "faults" why Hinata is not that great in battle or among other things are because of two things: she is a side character....and because she has a vagina !


Much like Sakura, Kishi could careless about a character unless you are Naruto, Sasuke, Madara, and the occasional villain.....basically, if you do not have a penis, then GTFO (in Kishi's view, that is).


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## VioNi (Apr 4, 2010)

@Drunken  

so you're saying you hate Hinata for Kishi's bullshit? I want you to give me one side character besides Shikamaru and Gaara that Kishi's developed since the Chunin exams. Better yet, give me a female. 

If you ask me, the next thread should be “What can Kishi do to redeem his characters?”.


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## Almaseti (Apr 4, 2010)

Drunkenwhale said:


> It makes Hinata seem less one dimensional if she stood on her own two feet.
> 
> True, everyone is shaped by their past but to step into the future on their own is the ultimate reward, because that's what growing up is all about: being able to take care of yourself on your own.



I still don't see how having a role model means not being independent.  Especially at 12/15 years old.  She is standing on her own two feet in nearly every way possible: she has her own goal, her own team, and she has obviously gained some level of competency (which admittedly is mostly an  at this point, because she's never been in a fight where she isn't hopelessly outmatched yet, but there's no reason to think she's a total wuss either) as advancing to chunin shows, _without Naruto even being around_.  He's not responsible for her achievements.  She is.

In terms of standing on her own feet and choosing her own path and doing stuff herself, Hinata is FAR more independent in her goals and actions then Lee is from Gai, or even Tenten from Tsunade, because at least Tsunade was there and Tenten presumably saw her around and stuff, and Gai is out there training and encouraging Lee directly every day.  

Besides, as I said before, her goals are her own.  She picked them herself, and Naruto happened to be a good example for her to motivate herself with. If Naruto hadn't been around, I'm sure she would have found a different role model.  Maybe Lee, or a historical figure or something.  She never actually needed Naruto to make her want what she wanted or define who she is, he was just a good example of what she wanted to be like.

tl:dr: Naruto is her inspiration, not her driving force, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.


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## Crackers (Apr 5, 2010)

I don't care that Hinata's background revolves around her family's treatment of her. Hell, I don't even care that she found inspiration from Naruto's persistence in proving himself to the rest of the village. What I _do_ find wrong, however, is that since Hinata drew motivation from Naruto's predicament, she's basically relied on his image for everything else since then. He's a crutch to her mentally and emotionally, and it's gotten to the point that her sole existence and determination to become stronger revolves purely around her desire to make him take notice of her. In my opinion, it's that kind of dependence she holds Naruto to that makes her such a horrible character in need of redemption.


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## toriyama (Apr 5, 2010)

To me this panel shows exactly what Hinata is. 


"I was always chasing you....wanting to overtake you....I just wanted to talk to you.....I wanted to be with you...."

She explained herself very honestly and very well in that confession. This didn't show she only thinks Naruto as a role model. He's her _everything_. 

I'm sure people will disagree with me and they have the right to, but this is how I see her. I think she'll get redeemed eventually if she takes away her obsession from Naruto(I'm not talking about Naruhina here! I'm talking about Hinata only).


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## Griever (Apr 5, 2010)

Well i'm never gonna like Hinata.. i just don't like the type of Character she is what the OP likes about her i hate about her, different taste.

But i don't think she'll ever change, or rather i don't think she'll ever get the chance... She's a side character after all, and as much as we may like some of em' the odds of Kishi expanding on them is slim to none, he's too hooked on Naruto and Sasuke  to even consider his other characters, i wish he would, but...


----------



## Drunkenwhale (Apr 5, 2010)

Fuck... I really didn't want to get back into this...



LadyVioNi said:


> @Drunken
> 
> so you're saying you hate Hinata for Kishi's bullshit? I want you to give me one side character besides Shikamaru and Gaara that Kishi's developed since the Chunin exams. Better yet, give me a female.
> 
> If you ask me, the next thread should be ?What can Kishi do to redeem his characters??.



It's not merely because of Kishi's bullshit. I don't like her because I don't like Shrinking Violet characters, the fact that her character as a whole revolves around Naruto, using him as a crutch... And unfortunately the fact that she's shoved down everywhere on the internet I go to like she's better than the other side characters when she's not. She's just overrated.

I'm sorry.



Almaseti said:


> I still don't see how having a role model means not being independent.  Especially at 12/15 years old.  She is standing on her own two feet in nearly every way possible: she has her own goal, her own team, and she has obviously gained some level of competency (which admittedly is mostly an  at this point, because she's never been in a fight where she isn't hopelessly outmatched yet, but there's no reason to think she's a total wuss either) as advancing to chunin shows, _without Naruto even being around_.  He's not responsible for her achievements.  She is.
> 
> In terms of standing on her own feet and choosing her own path and doing stuff herself, Hinata is FAR more independent in her goals and actions then Lee is from Gai, or even Tenten from Tsunade, because at least Tsunade was there and Tenten presumably saw her around and stuff, and Gai is out there training and encouraging Lee directly every day.
> 
> ...



She has her own goal, and what is that?

Yes she advanced to Chuunin rank without Naruto around but she still used him as her inspiration.

Her speech in chapter 437 pretty much tells us that Hinata uses Naruto as her driving force, he is the reason she continues to work harder.

And there is a problem with that, because due to that it makes her character one-dimensional, and horribly written, as if without him, she can't become a decent character in the long run.



toriyama said:


> To me this panel shows exactly what Hinata is.
> 
> 
> "I was always chasing you....wanting to overtake you....I just wanted to talk to you.....I wanted to be with you...."
> ...



My point exactly.


----------



## OMNOMNOM THE COOKIEZ (Apr 5, 2010)

Amrun said:


> I am similar to you, OP.  I like her but at the same time she frustrates me so greatly!
> 
> All I really want her to do is stop defining herself through her relationships with men -- any men, including Naruto.  This complaint goes for all women in this series except for Chiyo, but for Hinata it's particularly bad.
> 
> ...



Exactly this. Plus, she needs to have another bath in the waterfall, only this time, much sexier.


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## Gabe (Apr 5, 2010)

become a guy in the manga or get another author who is not kishi to write the manga cause he does not seem to like female characters. it sucks i like strong female characters but it seem kishi is set against it. maybe latter but who knows.


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## gabzilla (Apr 5, 2010)

LadyVioNi said:


> Can we drop the Sakura vs Hinata conversation damn it? This is about Hinata as a person. Not naruhina, narusaku ect ect.



You are wasting your time. People can't help themselves. 



Tiller said:


> I know, and most other post I've made about the manga in general have argued that point. How the main cast has been sanded down, how the story doesn't make any sense anymore, and how the manga itself has fallen in quality considerably.
> 
> I'm not arguing that Naruto, and the rest of the cast are great characters that should be studied in Japanese Literature 101 (they are cliche ridden and boring as hell as well in many ways, and for people that know me my disappoint in the story isn't a secret), I am arguing that there is nothing special about Hinata, and her character isn't well developed, and that if she is going to be "redeemed" Kishi is going to have to bother to develop her. Which as I've said before is unlikely to happen.
> 
> I'm basically a person who once was a big fan of the manga, but I can no longer enjoy it like I did once, because it's just gotten worse as time has moved on. I think character development has been forgotten, entire arcs no longer matter, and the storyline has been patched together to the point were it makes no sense what so ever, but this really isn't the place for it, this is just about Hinata.



Is there any character that you like? Just curious. All of them are walking cliches, all of them are either underdeveloped or poorly developed. if the _heroine_ is abused by the author every single chapter, I doubt secondary female characters are going to get any kind of positive development that doesn't include a kitchen. There are no bonds between male and females that don't have the romantic shit shadow over them. Female/female bonds are nonexistant. Teamwork is a joke.

This doesn't mean Hinata needs to be _redeemed_. Yes, she is a flawed character and yes, she was poorly develop, but bias aside... what exactly did she do wrong other than loving Naruto which is apparently a sin? Could her character be explored further when it comes to her family and her team? Oh yes. It's just highly unlikely.


----------



## Drunkenwhale (Apr 5, 2010)

gabzilla said:


> You are wasting your time. People can't help themselves.
> 
> This doesn't mean Hinata needs to be _redeemed_. Yes, she is a flawed character and yes, she was poorly develop, but bias aside... what exactly did she do wrong other than loving Naruto which is apparently a sin? Could her character be explored further when it comes to her family and her team? Oh yes. It's just highly unlikely.



Gabzy, if people are out there to quell the flames, then flame wars won't erupt and the forums will be a better place. But your slashed remark doesn't really help.

Hinata really didn't do anything wrong, she just sucks as a character, and all she does, all her character is about, was what Toriyama pointed out in that chapter.

I'm tired of having female characters being turned into simply walking breasts and vaginas with no other goals. I've said my part, and I am done with this thread.


----------



## Dejablue (Apr 5, 2010)

Guys I didn't make this thread so people could constantly compare Hinata to Sakura.


----------



## gabzilla (Apr 5, 2010)

Drunkenwhale said:


> Gabzy, if people are out there to quell the flames, then flame wars won't erupt and the forums will be a better place. But your slashed remark doesn't really help.



Half the comments in this thread are about Hinata only being redeemed when she stops loving Naruto.  Like it or not, it's part of her character. I don't want it to be the only one. I don't even want it to be the main one. I'm much more interested in her family or her team. But part 2 is all about the relationships the secondary characters have with Naruto and Sasuke. Did you notice that even when they were plenty of chances to develop the Hyuugas they were always ignored? Did you notice that no rookie - other than Shikamaru - gets any panel time unless it's related to Sasuke/Naruto? Kishimoto doesn't care.



Drunkenwhale said:


> Hinata really didn't do anything wrong, she just sucks as a character, and all she does, all her character is about, was what Toriyama pointed out in that chapter.
> 
> I'm tired of having female characters being turned into simply walking breasts and vaginas with no other goals. I've said my part, and I am done with this thread.



Hinata kinda had a goal. Which was to improve herself in the eyes of her family. Kishimoto forgot. Just like he forgot about Tenten wanting to be like Tsunade, Ino being the female with the greatest potential in her class and yada yada. Just because Hinata is being neglected - and I doubt this will change in the future - doesn't meant she has to be redeemed. Heck, I'm tired of the lack of teamwork, this doesn't mean I'm going to hate all the teams because the author doesn't give a shit about them.

Females in Naruto will always be neglected. As I said before, Kishimoto shits on his main female character all the time. I almost consider it a blessing that he is ignoring the others, he obviously doesn't know how to develop a female character to save his life.



Dejablue said:


> Guys I didn't make this thread so people could constantly compare Hinata to Sakura.



First rule of the Library: A thread about Hinata/Sakura will always turn into a Sakura vs Hinata debate sooner or later.


----------



## Specter Von Baren (Apr 5, 2010)

Dark World Lightning said:


> And for the record, I don't really give a rat's ass if Hinata did all this just to gain the attention of/protect Naruto. That's a common motivation for heroes in this very damn manga, including the protagonist himself.
> 
> I do mind that she failed to do advance an inch character-wise. It's like her character stopped growing after the Neji/Hina fight. At least she hasn't wasted as much goddamn time on-panel with her failure to grow up like... well, everyone in this fucking manga.
> 
> ...



You forgot Shino. 



LadyVioNi said:


> @Drunken
> 
> so you're saying you hate Hinata for Kishi's bullshit? I want you to give me one side character besides Shikamaru and Gaara that Kishi's developed since the Chunin exams. Better yet, give me a female.
> 
> If you ask me, the next thread should be ?What can Kishi do to redeem his characters??.



On it.


----------



## Specter Von Baren (Apr 5, 2010)

*What can Kishi do to redeem his characters?*

Just as the title says. What can Kishi do to redeem the shallowness, the cliched, the horrid, the cringe worthy, and abysmal characterizations of his characters? I'm not talking just about the obvious, I'm talking about everyone. What would it take to make Tenten more than just a "Ten who?"? what would it take to make Shino have development? What would it take to get half the forum from complaining about Sakura all the time? What would it take to make Team Taka have a point to exist?

What do you think could be done for these characters?


----------



## Love. (Apr 5, 2010)

More panel time.


----------



## Dejablue (Apr 5, 2010)

That will be the most important Naruto thread....in all of the ever.


----------



## Drunkenwhale (Apr 5, 2010)

Because it's Gabzy, this is my final post in this thread...

And god dammit, I'm tired of saying it.



gabzilla said:


> Half the comments in this thread are about Hinata only being redeemed when she stops loving Naruto.  Like it or not, it's part of her character. I don't want it to be the only one. I don't even want it to be the main one. I'm much more interested in her family or her team. But part 2 is all about the relationships the secondary characters have with Naruto and Sasuke. Did you notice that even when they were plenty of chances to develop the Hyuugas they were always ignored? Did you notice that no rookie - other than Shikamaru - gets any panel time unless it's related to Sasuke/Naruto? Kishimoto doesn't care.



It's not a bad thing to love Naruto, that's not what people are saying.

What is a bad thing is that her only goal, which Toriyama pointed out in her confession, is Naruto.

What is a bad thing is the fact that Hinata does not develop as a character without using Naruto and his ideals to drive her. That she is using Naruto as a crutch when she can do better on her own two feet.



gabzilla said:


> Hinata kinda had a goal. Which was to improve herself in the eyes of her family. Kishimoto forgot. Just like he forgot about Tenten wanting to be like Tsunade, Ino being the female with the greatest potential in her class and yada yada. Just because Hinata is being neglected - and I doubt this will change in the future - doesn't meant she has to be redeemed. Heck, I'm tired of the lack of teamwork, this doesn't mean I'm going to hate all the teams because the author doesn't give a shit about them.



Her goal was simply to improve herself, she made no mention of her family and 437 stated that the reason for said improvement was so that she could be with Naruto.

Yeah...

*Spoiler*: __ 



Well Kishi screwed himself in the balls with that. What's the point of having these characters other than for walking plot devices and foils if he's not going to develop and use them. At least other manga I've read have had strides with character development and showing that the characters are more than simply literary devices.



gabzilla said:


> Females in Naruto will always be neglected. As I said before, Kishimoto shits on his main female character all the time. I almost consider it a blessing that he is ignoring the others, he obviously doesn't know how to develop a female character to save his life.



I jokingly say all the time that Kishimoto simply reads "How to write a story for DUMMIES" while he's making this manga.

And that really sucks, because female characters deserve more than that...



gabzilla said:


> First rule of the Library: A thread about Hinata/Sakura will always turn into a Sakura vs Hinata debate sooner or later.



It would help if people make a conscious effort to stop it, though... Like LadyVioNi said.


----------



## Specter Von Baren (Apr 5, 2010)

Love. said:


> More panel time.



What would you like to see out of this panel time?


----------



## Judecious (Apr 5, 2010)

actually focus on them instead of giving sasuke all the panel time and fights. example team gai could have taken out deidara or kisame


----------



## Oberyn Nymeros (Apr 5, 2010)

are you serious? wow, if its that bad then theres nothing he can do but say "fuck it" and go home

also, neg repped~


----------



## Drunkenwhale (Apr 5, 2010)

Take a look at One Piece, see how every character has a place in the story, and focus upon them like that.

Don't make the characters one-dimensional.


----------



## Momoka (Apr 5, 2010)

Really, I don't think there's anything he can do to please like, billions of his fans all at once. People hate characters for different reasons and hold different views and opinions about them. Kinda difficult there, so Kishi's gonna have to do it his way.


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## Dejablue (Apr 5, 2010)

Use a time turner go back in time and start the entire manga over. Have it so that story isn't about one central character but about all of them as a group.  The manga would then be called "Ichiraku"  making the ramen shop  the central point where all the characters meet. The manga will then distribute equal or close to equal panel time to all the Konoha rookies. The story will run on the "Anyone can die" scenario to make it more realistic. Risky as hell but realistic.

Most story arcs will deal with the family lives of the rookie 9 and the questionable ethics of using children as assassins.


----------



## SimpleNClean (Apr 5, 2010)

Personally id like to see Neji do some stuff that puts him at "genius" level and not see anyone become fodder to Sasuke...


----------



## Love. (Apr 5, 2010)

Specter Von Baren said:


> What would you like to see out of this panel time?



Decent fights.


----------



## Aster The Megalomaniac (Apr 5, 2010)

At this point? Not encouraged. Kishi would have to not only give more panel times, but relationships, and also make the relationships clear and that they work (in the case of love or whatnot). Plus ideologies, having one ideology or two monopolizing the entire manga is so last year.

Also, more jutsu for each character, show their style of battle and their own intelligence. All this will actually take a lot of time so it won't happen anyway.


----------



## Specter Von Baren (Apr 5, 2010)

cbark42 said:


> are you serious? wow, if its that bad then theres nothing he can do but say "fuck it" and go home
> 
> also, neg repped~



.......................... What?  What did I do that was neg rep worthy? I started a thread talking about what you would like to see done for the characters that have been ill treated. I didn't put down fanbases, I didn't act like a complete moron, I didn't make this thread for the "lulz". I don't get it.



Dejablue said:


> Use a time turner go back in time and start the entire manga over. Have it so that story isn't about one central character but about all of them as a group.  The manga would then be called "Ichiraku"  making the ramen shop  the central point where all the characters meet. The manga will then distribute equal or close to equal panel time to all the Konoha rookies. The story will run on the "Anyone can die" scenario to make it more realistic. Risky as hell but realistic.
> 
> Most story arcs will deal with the family lives of the rookie 9 and the questionable ethics of using children as assassins.



It would be a different manga then I think but I would enjoy that allot more.



Aster The Megalomaniac said:


> At this point? Not encouraged. Kishi would have to not only give more panel times, but relationships, and also make the relationships clear and that they work (in the case of love or whatnot). Plus ideologies, having one ideology or two monopolizing the entire manga is so last year.
> 
> Also, more jutsu for each character, show their style of battle and their own intelligence. All this will actually take a lot of time so it won't happen anyway.



Well anything any of us say on this forum is essentially too late anyway.


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## Smokahontas (Apr 5, 2010)

Hinata is important.to the plot of the story....


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## Momoka (Apr 5, 2010)

I see a lot of threads like these now... 

So what redemption for Hinata? I don't think I can see any. Sorry....


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Apr 5, 2010)

Specter Von Baren said:


> .......................... What?  What did I do that was neg rep worthy? I started a thread talking about what you would like to see done for the characters that have been ill treated. I didn't put down fanbases, I didn't act like a complete moron, I didn't make this thread for the "lulz". I don't get it.



"What can Kishi do to redeem the shallowness, the cliched, the horrid, the cringe worthy, and abysmal characterizations of his characters? I'm not talking just about the obvious, I'm talking about everyone."

you basically called _every_ character in the manga a piece of shit. how on earth did you get past chapter 1 and why do you even bother to discuss it? 

makes no damn sense to read a story where you hate every character~


----------



## Aster The Megalomaniac (Apr 5, 2010)

cbark42 said:


> "What can Kishi do to redeem the shallowness, the cliched, the horrid, the cringe worthy, and abysmal characterizations of his characters? I'm not talking just about the obvious, I'm talking about everyone."
> 
> you basically called _every_ character in the manga a piece of shit. how on earth did you get past chapter 1 and why do you even bother to discuss it?
> 
> makes no damn sense to read a story where you hate every character~



Ever heard of constructive criticism, son? He wants the manga to improve, you on the other hand, wanted it to stay shitty. You're the one that deserves a neg.

I hate simpletons with the "Don't Like, Don't Read" mentality.


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## Hapuriainen (Apr 5, 2010)

Have female characters get development that has nothing to do with their male love interest/teammate/whatever.


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## Dejablue (Apr 5, 2010)

He'd have to somehow make it so that the characters he already created have worth to the present storyline. With the rookie 9 that worth is very little. Kishimoto even had Naruto blow them all off with his "Only I can defeat Sasuke" drivel.


----------



## Oberyn Nymeros (Apr 5, 2010)

Aster The Megalomaniac said:


> Ever heard of constructive criticism, son? He wants the manga to improve, you on the other hand, wanted it to stay shitty. You're the one that deserves a neg.
> 
> I hate simpletons with the "Don't Like, Don't Read" mentality.



so youre saying it makes sense? how?


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## TheIllness33 (Apr 5, 2010)

It's not so much that his characters are _all_ inadequately developed and/or poorly characterized.  It's that he decided to make the side characters more interesting than the protagonists and antagonists. 

As much as I love Naruto (in part 1 he was truly inspiring), his character has become overshadowed by his lesser, yet more interesting, comrades.  Shikamaru? Gaara? Neji?  The backstory behind those characters and their growth in part 1 was wildly entertaining.  Even without focusing on Naruto (i.e. Asuma's death and how it related to Naruto dealing with the loss of Jiraiya) Kishi managed to, initially, really make progress with Naruto's character.

Then BAM, Sasuke re-entered the picture in a major way.  Now that focus has shifted entirely to Sasuke and Naruto, with less emphasis on the other rookies, things have gotten stale.  Not because Naruto is innately a bad character, but because he has such an incredible supporting cast around him.

To redeem his characters, Kishi needs to go back to the direction that worked so well in the Part 1 and the beginning of Part 2.  Shift the main focus of the manga from Sasuke and his current scheme, put a little more concentration in to how the other Konoha-nin can further Naruto's evolution, and voila....Kishi has his winning formula back.

Heck, we can even get crazy here, and use the remaining Akatsuki members and Kabuchimaru to help Sasuke's development a bit, which may in turn lead right back to Naruto's development.

Complicated? Maybe.  But I can guarantee it will pay off in the end for Kishi and us as readers.


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## Shinigami Perv (Apr 5, 2010)

Make it a seinen. Even though the characters in this manga are more flawed than most, shonen character are mostly uninteresting in any manga.


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## Aster The Megalomaniac (Apr 5, 2010)

cbark42 said:


> so youre saying it makes sense? how?



Their development _is_ bad right now, that's the truth. It doesn't mean Specter hated the manga from the beginning, he might've been digging in more than you, hell before you were even born.

Specter criticized the manga simply because he wanted the change for the better, and he's not reserved to say something about it. To you, a simpleton, it comes off as him hating the manga truly, and not giving himself a chance to like the manga at all. This thread is him giving himself a chance to like the manga, to believe in future changes for the better. It's why he's asking us.

People like you who act like a grumpy 80 year old man who chases away people like Specter as if he's playing on your lawn are the ones that are reducing the fanbase, in turn reducing sales and popularity of the manga itself. Naruto isn't made for your own enjoyment alone.

If you have nothing contributory to say to this thread, I can only suggest for you not to say anything at all.


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## Rache (Apr 5, 2010)

It starts with D and ends with evelopment.


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## Dejablue (Apr 5, 2010)

Arg I love Part 1. Even with its flaws it could do me no wrong. If Kishimoto could go back to that formula I'd be fine. Before it felt like he put blinders on his story so that it became overwhelmingly one track.

I think what Shippuden lacks is the aspect of team work. Most of the Akatsuki were killed in 1vs1 battles.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Apr 5, 2010)

Aster The Megalomaniac said:


> Their development _is_ bad right now, that's the truth. It doesn't mean Specter hated the manga from the beginning, he might've been digging in more than you, hell before you were even born.
> 
> Specter criticized the manga simply because he wanted the change for the better, and he's not reserved to say something about it. To you, a simpleton, it comes off as him hating the manga truly, and not giving himself a chance to like the manga at all. This thread is him giving himself a chance to like the manga, to believe in future changes for the better. It's why he's asking us.
> 
> ...


no matter what you say it still makes no sense. he made it clear that he found every single character in the story to be a sack of shit.


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## Aster The Megalomaniac (Apr 5, 2010)

cbark42 said:


> no matter what you say it still makes no sense. he made it clear that he found every single character in the story to be a sack of shit.



I shouldn't have expected it to make sense to someone like you, anyway.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Apr 5, 2010)

Aster The Megalomaniac said:


> I shouldn't have expected it to make sense to someone like you, anyway.



i shouldnt have expected a real answer from you, should i?

fun fact for you: a wordy post doesnt make you intelligent~


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## Tiller (Apr 5, 2010)

gabzilla said:


> Is there any character that you like? Just curious. All of them are walking cliches, all of them are either underdeveloped or poorly developed. if the _heroine_ is abused by the author every single chapter, I doubt secondary female characters are going to get any kind of positive development that doesn't include a kitchen. There are no bonds between male and females that don't have the romantic shit shadow over them. Female/female bonds are nonexistant. Teamwork is a joke.



Once upon a time I liked Shikamaru, I really have no idea why, I guess I found his laziness kind of humorous since he was suppose to be an elite warrior. I also was once a bigger NS shipper, because I thought their was an actually story arc there as well that would ultimately affect the story itself. To put it simply I thought Part II was going to be a huge expansion with a large amount of character development, where arcs would actually matter, and if characters died it would have an impact... or at least they would stay dead. I figured a big part of the story would be watching how the Rookie 9 grew up. We got that a bit.... at first... done horribly wrong... and then... it got worse... every arc looking worse then the arc before it.... 

The arc to save Gaara wasn't God awful, it was just kind of blah. The pluses were we got to see how the characters training paid off in "real world" situations, and Naruto felt his mortality a bit, because of Gaara's death. Even the death of the old broad to bring back Gaara wasn't completely worthless, since it kind of worked with Kishi's "replace the old with the new" message (even if you think that message is kind of stupid). I was hoping it would pick up... sadly I know miss the story telling level of the Save Gaara arc.



> This doesn't mean Hinata needs to be _redeemed_. Yes, she is a flawed character and yes, she was poorly develop, but bias aside... what exactly did she do wrong other than loving Naruto which is apparently a sin? Could her character be explored further when it comes to her family and her team? Oh yes. It's just highly unlikely.



I don't have a problem with her loving Naruto in and of itself honestly. If it was done right it could possibly have even been an important part of the story, of course it hasn't been. For me her "redemption" could only happen if she was actually developed, since her problem to me is that she's has no real character. Like the rest of the cast their redemption can only come from actual development.

As I said before my problem with her is her character flaws, and I don't mean her shyness. I mean that she is a cardboard stereotype. Hinata is underdeveloped, and is almost a perfect paper cut out stereotype like far to many characters in this story. To me if she is going to be redeemed she needs to move beyond this. This doesn't mean she has to move beyond loving Naruto exactly, it very well could be developed positively, it does mean that her character need to move beyond Naruto and Daddy's disappointment being the only thing her character deals with. There should be more to her then that. I don't expect that though since she is just a side character. I don't even expect the main characters to develop since this is Kishi we are talking about.

This isn't a mystery story where the main focus is on a crime, so we can have some characters around who are just there to drop clues. This is suppose to be a kind of qausie feudal war story, that deals with the morality of a warrior culture. Maybe I expect to much though... maybe such a story really can't be done right with characters who have some honest humanity in them, despite the extraordinary situations they find themselves in.


Oh...right.


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## Dejablue (Apr 5, 2010)

Aster The Megalomaniac said:


> Their development _is_ bad right now, that's the truth. It doesn't mean Specter hated the manga from the beginning, he might've been digging in more than you, hell before you were even born.
> 
> Specter criticized the manga simply because he wanted the change for the better, and he's not reserved to say something about it. To you, a simpleton, it comes off as him hating the manga truly, and not giving himself a chance to like the manga at all. This thread is him giving himself a chance to like the manga, to believe in future changes for the better. It's why he's asking us.
> 
> ...





He gave you a pretty thorough answer that you completely ignored... He shouldn't have to answer you again.


----------



## Huss (Apr 5, 2010)

Aster The Megalomaniac said:


> Their development _is_ bad right now, that's the truth. It doesn't mean Specter hated the manga from the beginning, he might've been digging in more than you, hell before you were even born.
> 
> Specter criticized the manga simply because he wanted the change for the better, and he's not reserved to say something about it. To you, a simpleton, it comes off as him hating the manga truly, and not giving himself a chance to like the manga at all. This thread is him giving himself a chance to like the manga, to believe in future changes for the better. It's why he's asking us.
> 
> ...



Change for the better? i can guarantee if kishi listened to any of the "better" ideas on this forum his manga would turn to absolute shit and the only characters that are done badly are the females because he has difficulty writing them however that gives him no excuse that is my only complaint.

Don't how you can call cbark a simpleton you have absolutely no basis for that insult he simply stated the flaws in the op and by the way for someone who seems to care about grammar and punctuation there are an awful lot of mistakes in your post. Also your post didn't contribute anything to the thread and was off topic hypocrite much?


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Apr 5, 2010)

Dejablue said:


> He gave you a pretty thorough answer that you completely ignored... He shouldn't have to answer you again.



people dont seem to realize that the op contradicts himself. the title is " What can Kishi do to redeem his characters" but the op makes it clear that there was never anything to redeem in the first place. so hes saying that hes read a story with hundreds of characters, and hes hated every single one of them, but never quit, and instead continues to read and discuss it. wheres the logic in that?

his answer: Specter criticized the manga simply because he wanted the change for the better, and he's not reserved to say something about it.

in case you missed it, im not asking why the op critisized the manga, so he didnt answer me.~


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## Selva (Apr 5, 2010)

I think it's too late for a complete change. 
The only thing I can think of which might redeem some of his characters is to give them a damn important role in the upcoming war. It's their chance to shine. Naruto might be outside the village doing whatever and they will be there trying to save it or something. Shikamaru might lead a team of the Rookies to blow up bridges, bring in some supplies and weapons... etc you know these sort of stuff.


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## Tiller (Apr 5, 2010)

cbark42 said:


> people dont seem to realize that the op contradicts himself. the title is " What can Kishi do to redeem his characters" but the op makes it clear that there was never anything to redeem in the first place. so hes saying that hes read a story with hundreds of characters, and hes hated every single one of them, but never quit, and instead continues to read and discuss it. wheres the logic in that?
> 
> his answer: Specter criticized the manga simply because he wanted the change for the better, and he's not reserved to say something about it.
> 
> in case you missed it, im not asking why the op critisized the manga, so he didnt answer me.~



Where exactly does the OP say something about how he hated all the characters from the beginning? Where was that? I never saw him say anything about him hating every single character since four hundred plus characters ago. What he is asking is how the manga could be improved from what it i, you know how the characters could actually be developed.

Kishi depends heavily on stereotypes for his background characters. Even the characters that were once fairly developed (such as Neji) now have very few characteristics that have survived. Kishi has also shaved down his main characters lately to the point where they are now personifications of general ideas.

People have given great answers to the OP's question. It boils down to one general idea though, character development, and story arcs that matter for longer then ten chapters.


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## Turrin (Apr 5, 2010)

For a Shounnen the only really flawed character for their role in the story line is Sakura right now. Naruto used to annoy me a bit, but he isn't chasing Sasuke anymore and he has come to his decision. Sasuke used to annoy me, but he has stopped being a grey character and is all out evil, making his choice as well.

As for the Side Characters nothing really wrong with them they are just less important to the overall story line like they always have been. I'd like to see more of them, but i don't see anything wrong with their characterization.


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## toriyama (Apr 5, 2010)

Turrin said:


> For a Shounnen the only really flawed character for their role in the story line is Sakura right now. Naruto used to annoy me a bit, but he isn't chasing Sasuke anymore and he has come to his decision. Sasuke used to annoy me, but he has stopped being a grey character and is all out evil, making his choice as well.



I agree with this. I think Sakura is the one that needs serious redemption.
She is the most horribly written main heroine I've ever seen so far.  

As for the side characters, I couldn't care less. They are what they are from the beginning. Redeeming/Developing them wouldn't make the story any better. I think the good part of the story Naruto is it's depth of the story. If he focuses too much on the side characters the story's depth will get shallow, especially when the story is about bonds between two characters.


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## Matariki (Apr 5, 2010)

hehey said:


> Hinata should just grab Naruto and kiss him. That right there would make her awesome.



She knows that Naruto doesn't love her. :/


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## Glued (Apr 5, 2010)

Specter Von Baren said:


> Just as the title says. What can Kishi do to redeem the shallowness, the cliched, the horrid, the cringe worthy, and abysmal characterizations of his characters? I'm not talking just about the obvious, I'm talking about everyone. What would it take to make Tenten more than just a "Ten who?"? what would it take to make Shino have development? What would it take to get half the forum from complaining about Sakura all the time? What would it take to make Team Taka have a point to exist?
> 
> What do you think could be done for these characters?



It took almost 250 chapters to build Naruto
It took almost 250 chapters to destroy Naruto
It would take 250 more chapters to rebuild Naruto

1) Have Naruto acknowledge that he failed to protect the village. Have him reflect on his failures and openly admit why he failed rather than crying.
2) Have Naruto take some responsibility. Hercules was forced to carry the entire sky on his back because he was the greatest of the Greek heroes. Naruto has the greatest power in his universe. Have him take control of it himself. Naruto is like Superman without the responsibility.
3) For failing to keep Kyuubi at bay, Naruto should be given a set of arduous labor to prove that he really does have great willpower.
4) Build up on the 4 Noble clans of Konoha. Aburame, Akimichi, Hyuuga and Uchiha. This way you can branch out with Chouji, Shino, Neji and Hinata.
5) Build up on how Chouji trained to overcome the effects of the Red Pill. If he still suffers from it, show it. This will leave room for Shikamaru to think about how he should behave as either a friend or a leader.
6) For Rock Lee, have him leave the village to train with a bunch of monks. Have him train offscreen and develop into something more than Gai Version 2. Have him focus on the Drunken fist fighting style instead of Gouken.
7) For Tenten. Tenten whether people believe it or not probably has more ambition than all the other girls in Naruto. Tenten said that she wanted to be a powerful Kunoichi just like Tsunade. Have Tenten explain how tough it is being in Team Gai. Focus on her dreams and how she wants to achieve them.
8) Neji seems to have calmed down over the years, but he still has to deal with being a branch family member. He needs to do more than just deal with Hiashi. He should look for a way to remove his seal. If not that, he and Naruto should team-up and try to find a way to save the Branch.
9) At birth Shino's family put Kikaichu bug larvae in his body. One can easily parallel this to Naruto's father placing Kyuubi in him. Also go into depth about why the Aburame doe such practices.
10) When learning about the Ying and Yang chakra, Naruto should consult with InoShikaChou. Those guys have no animal contracts and they don't seem to use elements.
11) Have the InoShikaChou use some team combos.
12) Have Naruto train in each of the houses within the InoShikaCho.
13) Go into depth about Kiba growing up without a father. Use it as a way to show why Kiba's always so loud.
14) Use Akamaru as a parallel to Kyuubi. Kiba gives Naruto an explanation on how to treat his dog. Show him who is the master. Who is horse and who is king. Like Ichigo did with Shirosaki.
15) Develop Kankuro a bit. He's the son of a Kage. He also has a benchmark, Sasori and also Chiyo. Both Chiyo and Sasori failed to create a living puppet. Kankuro should create a living puppet.
16) Have Naruto stripped of Kyuubi, so he is forced to develop as a true shinobi.
17) Have Kyuubi forced back into Naruto. Then have Rock Lee explain to Naruto how Kyuubi is just a weight Naruto must carry, one that will make him stronger.
18) Wrap up the Hyuuga characterizations. Have Neji, Hinata, Kou and Hanabi discuss things within the family and how its time for a change. Have Naruto go Barrack Obama on their ass with inspirational speech.
19) Have Naruto go talk to Hinata. Either he says yes or no. Just get everything out of the way.
20) Have Sakura learn to become strong on her own. Give her the Pheonix Rebirth like Tsunade.

21) Sasuke, umm...Sasuke is beyond all repair. He is the most cliche Byronic Hero ever. There is no poin.


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## Setas1999 (Apr 5, 2010)

Let write manga to someone else.


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## Safer Saviour (Apr 5, 2010)

Shinigami Perv said:


> Make it a seinen. Even though the characters in this manga are more flawed than most, shonen character are mostly uninteresting in any manga.



Yes, clearly The Lion King, Lord of the Rings and Star Wars (the originals) are lesser movies than Showgirls.

Quality has _nothing_ to do whether something is for a younger or older audience. A good story is a good story regardless of how 'adult' it is. Most 'mature' content these days just boils down to graphic violence and sexuality rather than complex and ambiguous themes. I’d say it’s a pity, but it’s not; those themes have found their way into many PG-13 and even U rated stories and so more people have access to them. 



toriyama said:


> As for the side characters, I couldn't care less. They are what they are from the beginning. Redeeming/Developing them wouldn't make the story any better. I think the good part of the story Naruto is it's depth of the story. If he focuses too much on the side characters the story's depth will get shallow, especially when the story is about bonds between two characters.



This is simply not true. There are plenty of _great_ stories with ensemble casts: where the secondary characters are developed nicely and actively contribute to the story. In addition, most of the stories that _do_ focus on smaller groups tend to do better when fewer side-characters are introduced. It’s simple: if there’s no point to them, don’t bring them in.


Personally, I’d love to see Kishimoto pull the focus from Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura for a bit. I don’t want them written out entirely but it’d be nice to see other characters have a real dramatic impact on the plot. I’d love to have the supporting cast develop beyond their archetypes too, as most of the characters in Naruto are very by-the-book and indistinct from other characters filling similar roles in other stories. Fully rounded, ‘human’ characters are always more interesting to read about.


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## Jikayaki (Apr 5, 2010)

Sasuke could be developed by Kishimoto in such a way that I could possibly enjoy the character as a villain when before I didn't particularly like or dislike the character in his part one form or anti-hero form. Ultimately I've enjoyed the character slightly more when he began his transition into a villain rather recently, but found the development to this state or the lack of it rather disappointing.

Naruto is a different matter all together. Originally Naruto back in part one had been one of if not my favorite character, but part two more or less ruined that. Naruto's obsession with Sasuke was terribly revolting and at this point would be rather hard for me to just forget about even with characterization I more agree with being introduced. Its not impossible for Naruto's character to be redeemed through development. I'd like to see his obsession for Sasuke to die down, finalized goals when in regards to Sasuke, and the simple realization that ultimately Naruto is going to need to resolve the situation regarding Sasuke no matter whats necessary. There has been some development that I more agree with recently, but I'm well aware that in all likely hood Naruto's character in this regard is never going to truly improve. Naruto's own goal to become Hokage and his promise to Jiraiya and Nagato is always going to be second to saving Sasuke, and I have no hope for this to ever be remedied.

In my opinion the rookies or at least the majority of the rookies haven't been ruined they merely don't have enough development. Some development during the Shinobi war would go a long way to reviving these characters and my interest in them.


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## Saunion (Apr 5, 2010)

I really don't understand why Hinata fans have to constantly bring up other characters to defend her. Yes, other Naruto characters are cliché. No one is denying that. That doesn't make HInata any less of a poorly written stereotype.

Oh and



> You hate her because she's better endowed than your favorite female character? Tough. But just because she has boobs and hips doesn't make her a fat whore. She actually has a figure. As far as her eyes and face goes, Ino, Temari, Gaara and Neji all have pupiless eyes, gonna hate them too?



 

This is "you hate Sasuke because you're jealous!" level. 

What about fans of Tsunade, Konan, Mizukage or Samui who happen to hate Hinata? Their favorite female characters all have bigger tits, how could they hate Hinata-sama-hime? WHAT A PARADOX!!!!!


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## toriyama (Apr 5, 2010)

I think people bringing up other characters are doing that because that's the only way they can defend Hinata(and argument such as "Character X sucks more than Hinata" is opinion based too). Their argument for "Hinata doesn't need redemption", can't be brought up explaining the qualities about her. Is that because she doesn't have a quality other than tits, and N...N...Naru...to-kun?

Yet they don't have the courage, nor reason to compare Hinata with Temari, Karui, Samui, the females who are not pairing rivals and share the same amount of panel times with her. Is that because, "She doesn't fail in the little panel time she has" fails when compared to females like Temari?

I for once want to see a true reasoning to "Why Hinata doesn't want redemption". If they can come up with a reason without bringing up other characters that is


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## godsangel13 (Apr 5, 2010)

I dont get it why does hinata need to redeem herself?


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## Santeira (Apr 5, 2010)

godsangel13 said:


> I dont get it why does hinata need to redeem herself?



Apparently, being a teenager with a crush is abnormal and a sin.


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## zuul (Apr 5, 2010)

Santeira said:


> Apparently, being a teenager with a crush is abnormal and a sin.



Especially since it's Fagruto you know the guy 90% of the cast is crushing over...Even the Fuck You fodder nin was willing to die for his sake...

And I don't really get where the submissive BS came from since she tends to not do what she's asked to. I suppose NH sick fantasies have tainted many minds....


A character that is only part one relevant has not to redeem itself for not being part 2 relevant. 


And some post are :lmoa. Being rejected by Kiba and Gaara ? WTF !! Why ?? Are there being romantic innuendos or somethings.

Someone has been reading too much fanfictions. 
Hinata isn't going to end up with anyone. Which is an excellent thing. No kitchen for her. I wish Sakura could escape this terrible fate as well but Kishi seems to not want to get rid of his annoying love triangle....

She could redeem herself for her bad tastes in men by crushing on Sasuke Sama instead...


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## Santeira (Apr 5, 2010)

zuul said:


> Especially since it's Fagruto you know the guy 90% of the cast is crushing over...Even the Fuck You fodder nin was willing to die for his sake...
> 
> And I don't really get where the submissive BS came from since she tends to not do what she's asked to. I suppose NH sick fantasies have tainted many minds....


The submissive fantasies are fanboys' creation. I think it's easy to generalize her as submissive since they often relate her to the Yamato Nadeshiko archetype, and about a billion other Yamato Nadeshiko archetype is somewhat submissive. We have many manga evidences that she isn't the submissive type--but remember, manga doesn't prove anything. 



> A character that is only part one relevant has not to redeem itself for not being part 2 relevant.


About 95% of the characters in this manga have to redeem themselves don't you see?  Who cares if you're lying though the teeth, deceiving people, using them, discarding them if you're relevant. As long as you're not relevant in Part 2, and are side-character, you better redeem yourselves! 



> And some post are :lmoa. Being rejected by Kiba and Gaara ? WTF !!
> 
> Someone has been reading too much fanfictions.
> Hinata isn't going to end up with anyone.


And I thought only the fans are delusional.  I hope she doesn't end up with anyone too.  I'd take her with Sasuke however, and ahem, Kakashi and Itachi-sama.


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## AceBizzle (Apr 5, 2010)

Hypothetically, how does a D-level ninja "redeem" herself if all she has ever done is perform how she was presented?  The biggest compliment Hinata has gotten is "I like weird girls like you" and "You tried...now give up" 

Actually, I believe Hinata has overachieved a bit if you think about how Hiashi told her to GTFO   I do understand the OP though. 

Going to start a Tenten redemption thread now


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## AceBizzle (Apr 5, 2010)

Did someone mention suicide yet? I'm _REALLY_ putting all of my eggs into that basket


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## Bart (Apr 5, 2010)

For her to show some new Jyuuken techniques


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## zuul (Apr 5, 2010)

Many fanbois will be pleased if she opens her legs for Naruto. 
It did wonder for Karin to presumabely become a Naruto fangirl....


It's terribely sad, but fanbois are shallow horny creatures that desperately hope Naruto's manliness to be restored, and if Sakura can do that, they would be delighted enough to forgive all the previous castrating behaviour.


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## zuul (Apr 5, 2010)

AceBizzle said:


> Hypothetically, how does a D-level ninja "redeem" herself if all she has ever done is perform how she was presented?  The biggest compliment Hinata has gotten is "I like weird girls like you" and "You tried...now give up"
> 
> Actually, I believe Hinata has overachieved a bit if you think about how Hiashi told her to GTFO   I do understand the OP though.
> 
> Going to start a Tenten redemption thread now



You're right. People reacts as if she has been hyped to become uber strong or shit like that. While she is just a girl that is not gifted at all in taijutsu who tried to become decent through training. 
Without mediocre nins there aren't any genius.




To redeem herself Tenten needs a new voice actor. I hate that annoying high pitched voice.
She doesn't look down on Lee anymore and stop with that super creepy over-the-top cheerful attitude and smile. Well I believe... Not sure because we don't see her much.


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## Santeira (Apr 5, 2010)

I love it when Hinata's thread gets 2000+ hits and generates so many replies. Secondary character's redemption is important, FTW!


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## zuul (Apr 5, 2010)

Santeira said:


> I love it when Hinata's thread gets 2000+ hits and generates so many replies. Secondary character's redemption is important, FTW!



Neji also deserves a thread. So many hype for nothing.

And Omoi he dares to be a Naruto fapboy. That's so EBIL.

And Teuchi. That bitch didn't give Naruto enough free ramen... 

the list goes on and on.


I'm going to do my Naruto thread. Because he certainly deserves it more than Sakura. You know character with actual panels time and relevance, that are legitimate to bitche about.


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## Setas1999 (Apr 5, 2010)

zuul said:


> Many fanbois will be pleased if she opens her legs for Naruto.
> It did wonder for Karin to presumabely become a Naruto fangirl....
> 
> 
> It's terribely sad, but fanbois are shallow horny creatures that desperately hope Naruto's manliness to be restored, and if Sakura can do that, they would be delighted enough to forgive all the previous castrating behaviour.


Im Narusaku fan,but this would absolutely ruin not only sakura as character but manga too. How in hell being whore should help her too redeem herself?


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## Santeira (Apr 5, 2010)

zuul said:


> Neji also deserves a thread. So many hype for nothing.
> 
> And Omoi he dares to be a Naruto fapboy. That's so EBIL.
> 
> ...



OMG do eet.  I will make a Tonton redemption thread. For not letting Tsunade eat it.


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## zuul (Apr 5, 2010)

*What Would It Take For Naruto to Redeem Himself?*

*What Would It Take For Naruto to Redeem Himself? *


Since Sakura apparently needs to redeem herself for being a Sasuke fangirl unable to give up on the Uvhiha and for being kinda unsensitive to her friends.

I suppose someone who is an even bigger Sasuke wanker, who cannot respect the pain of gieving  old woman who have done so much fo them, and who cannot even thank someone that was willing to die for their sake (something Sakura can at least do) should do for redeeming ?


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## Canute87 (Apr 5, 2010)

Change clothes
Learn more techniques non-rasengan related
Get off Sasuke
Get on Hinata

Yeah that's about it.


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## Santeira (Apr 5, 2010)

Well for starters, he should learn to be humble and realize that not everything should go his way. He should realize that if the rest of the world thinks Sasuke is a threat there's no reason for him to think he's right about Sasuke. 

Also, it would help if he starts treating people with respect--especially people older than him. Have some balls to give Hinata closure, if just to reject her. Listen to Itachi-sama and stop living in piped-dreams.

I'll put more when I think about it later. Right now I want to do some workout.


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## Setas1999 (Apr 5, 2010)

kill sasuke.slowly,painful.enjoy that.find a girl-sakura,hinata...I don't care who.Just not Mizukage becouse shes for Gaara.Never again lose consciousness while thinking about sasuke or any guy.And he is redeemed


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## ueki kouske (Apr 5, 2010)

Redeem himself from what?


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## zuul (Apr 5, 2010)

Canute87 said:


> Change clothes
> 
> *Yes*
> 
> ...





Santeira said:


> Well for starters, he should learn to be humble and realize that not everything should go his way. He should realize that if the rest of the world thinks Sasuke is a threat there's no reason for him to think he's right about Sasuke.
> 
> Also, it would help if he starts treating people with respect--especially people older than him. Have some balls to give Hinata closure, if just to reject her. Listen to Itachi-sama and stop living in piped-dreams.
> 
> I'll put more when I think about it later. Right now I want to do some workout.



You're right. He needs to learn to respect others opinions and not forces his beliefs and love on people.


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## Velocity (Apr 5, 2010)

He simply needs to accept that he needs to kick butt and take names if he wants to save the world, not pine and cry and get beat up for Sasuke.


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## Khazzar (Apr 5, 2010)

He's now beyond redemption. As well as Sasuke.

Naruto is the character who got pussified the most in all manga's i've had the chance to read so far. Was my favourite character in part 1 though.


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## Jeroen (Apr 5, 2010)

I wasn't aware that Naruto did anything that required him to redeem himself......


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## Selva (Apr 5, 2010)

R o f l c o p t e r said:


> I wasn't aware that Naruto did anything that required him to redeem himself......


Well, cause apparently everyone in this manga needs redemption. 
I'm thinking about starting a "What would it take for Sasuke to redeem himself?" thread just for the lulz 

A change of clothes will do for a start... beating up Sasuke's ass will be enough though for me... but what the hell, I'm biased. 

On a serious note: Enough with the "I'm weak" BS. You're not weak darling, you're awesome. And enough with the Sasuke BS, the fucker can rot in hell for all I care.  You deserve much much better friends than him. That's what comes to my mind right now. Yeah, I'm biased.


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## AceBizzle (Apr 5, 2010)

*What Would It Take For Tenten to Redeem Herself?*

Welcome.

Believe it or not, I'm a fan of 1010. She's my fav. female out of the rookie 12 and tied with Karui as my fav. female in the series.

Okay, Tenten was introduced as this...



*Tenten: I would like to become a strong ninja...like the Legendary female ninja Tsunade-sama...*

Yes, that's right.  A female with a goal _not revolved around a male_! Also, she got a lil hype of being able to hit a target 100 out of 100 times! I remember in an old thread called "Question of Genius", which unluckily seems to have disappeared completely..., someone suggested Tenten as a genius due to her natural disadvantage in throwing objects accurately as a female.  From what I looked up, most of this is contributed to muscle coordination and spatial ability.  So that's right! The Ten is a freakin' genius! But what happens...



...And Tenten is pretty much defined as fodder. How could someone with goals as high as Tenten's fall so short? Kishi

What would it take for Tenten to Redeem herself? 

Insults range from Tenten being one-paneled to being able to buy Tenten's techniques from Dollar General.



> Personality: Diehard researcher, busybody, tact of a sledgehammer





> *Busybody: a person who meddles in the affairs of others*



With Tenten being known as a busybody and lack of tact, I find it hard to believe she hasn't demanded to be trained by Tsunade yet. I know...fodder doesn't matter to the plot...but I'm just trying to create some discussion and make you think! Also, don't you think a researcher like Tenten with all type of weapons would be good with Shizune's poison and stuff like that?



> Her calm demeanour and focus guide the team through their missions, and when it's battle time, her long-range attacks allow her team to take the initiative. *If Tenten weren't there, none of her other team members would be able to use their own ability to the fullest.* *For Team Gai, where each individual member is already extremely strong, Tenten is the vital element that cements them together.*



From this databook entry...it would seem like not only is Tenten hinted at being pretty strong individually...but she is VERY USEFUL in team combat.  

*IMO, this is how you redeem Tenten*

*1.) Have Tenten talk shit to other females*

Tenten's motto is "_Whether you're a boy or girl means nothing on the battlefield." _ With the other females pretty much delegating themselves as cheerleaders and crying like pussies, I think it would be pretty cool if Tenten gave a "Girl Power" type speech. Or have Tenten call out other females on their BS like Karui did Sakura.

or

2.) *Have Tenten complete a mission without being saved or being a burden.* 

Something as simple as that.  Tenten is level-headed so she shouldn't be a burden on the battlefield.  Send her, Shikamaru, Neji, and Chouji (4-man Cell) to stop a Akatsuki Zombie or some decent level villian.  With Tenten being a fan of fortune-telling...I can see it like this.

**Bad guy is wandering aimlessly and sees a Chinese fortune cookie on the ground. He cracks the cookie and pulls out his fortune.  It reads as followed.



> *Don't f*** with the Ten*





...And precede to raep**

And yes...I know this is Kishi we're talking about...



> Creator Masashi Kishimoto favors her character design over all of the other female ninja in the series and plans to use her more.



Kishi is a f***ing liar 

*Discuss*


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## Canute87 (Apr 5, 2010)

Migration to Seinen Manga.


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## zuul (Apr 5, 2010)

selvaspeedy said:


> Well, cause apparently everyone in this manga needs redemption.
> I'm thinking about starting a "What would it take for Sasuke to redeem himself?" thread just for the lulz
> 
> A change of clothes will do for a start... beating up Sasuke's ass will be enough though for me... but what the hell, I'm biased.
> ...



Sasuke would never be able to redeem himself in the haterz eyes. And Fanboys think he has nothing to redeem about. I pondered about opening that Thread too.


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## Love. (Apr 5, 2010)

But that would be a waste of panel time.


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## Synn (Apr 5, 2010)

More panel time.


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## Santeira (Apr 5, 2010)

Uhm lose the buns, Princess Leia sort of hairdo is so 70's.


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## AceBizzle (Apr 5, 2010)

Stop revolving his life around Sasuke


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Apr 5, 2010)

This "redeemption" threads are getting too repetitive, unoriginal and boring honestly. 

Just more panel time, better now that the war is coming.


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## Santeira (Apr 5, 2010)

zuul said:


> Sasuke would never be able to redeem himself in the haterz eyes. And Fanboys think he has nothing to redeem about. I pondered about opening that Thread too.



I think Sasuke will be redeemed because Kishi's writing.  I'm more concern about Naruto who would always be right and do no wrong.


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## Champagne Supernova (Apr 5, 2010)

Didn't you know?

Naruto is Jesus hence he doesn't need to redeem himself.

He takes beatings for our sins.


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## zuul (Apr 5, 2010)

Champagne Supernova said:


> Didn't you know?
> 
> Naruto is Jesus hence he doesn't need to redeem himself.
> 
> He takes beatings for our sins.



Then Kishi should bring the Karui girl back. It isn't enough beating yet.


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## AceBizzle (Apr 5, 2010)

zuul said:


> You're right. People reacts as if she has been hyped to become uber strong or shit like that. While she is just a girl that is not gifted at all in taijutsu who tried to become decent through training.
> Without mediocre nins there aren't any genius.



Yeah.  I've always liked the parallel of Hinata and Neji as a Neji fan.  I guess I understand the posters who don't like Hinata using Naruto as a crutch.  I feel the same way.  I'm kinda hoping with Hinata being a part of the rookie's fight to kill Sasuke...that she will say something like "I love you Naruto...but Sasuke...fuck 'em!!" :rofl



> To redeem herself Tenten needs a new voice actor. I hate that annoying high pitched voice.
> She doesn't look down on Lee anymore and stop with that super creepy over-the-top cheerful attitude and smile. Well I believe... Not sure because we don't see her much.



Can you please put this in the Tenten Redemption thread


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## Hidden Nin (Apr 5, 2010)

She should take on one of the Akatsuki zombies and die valiantly in battle.


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## Jeroen (Apr 5, 2010)

selvaspeedy said:


> Well, cause apparently everyone in this manga needs redemption.
> I'm thinking about starting a "What would it take for Sasuke to redeem himself?" thread just for the lulz



I thought the HoU had the patent for creating similar threads for every friggin' character in the manga...
"What if *insert character* would walk down the streets of Konoha naked" would be an example of this...

Now, it's happening here as well...


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## Canute87 (Apr 5, 2010)

Hidden Nin said:


> She should take on one of the Akatsuki zombies and die valiantly in battle.



valiantly? people die like shit in this manga.


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## taeko (Apr 5, 2010)

her death may only have 1 panel


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## Kuromaku (Apr 5, 2010)

What have I done?  I've created a monster!


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## zuul (Apr 5, 2010)

To redeem herself Tenten needs a new voice actor. I hate that annoying high pitched voice.
She doesn't look down on Lee anymore and stop with that super creepy over-the-top cheerful attitude and smile. Well I believe... Not sure because we don't see her much.


----------



## Bart (Apr 5, 2010)

To have more guns than the Terminator.


----------



## Akatou (Apr 5, 2010)

I agree with OP, Tenten's one of my favourite kunoichi too


----------



## Canute87 (Apr 5, 2010)

Bart said:


> To have more guns than the Terminator.


----------



## edzia_90 (Apr 5, 2010)

no matter what she will do she's still fodder


----------



## AceBizzle (Apr 5, 2010)

Bart said:


> To have more guns than the Terminator.




Damnit you beat me to it, Canute!  +rep


----------



## ~riku~ (Apr 5, 2010)

I think someone of you need to read a dictionary. One cannot redeem themselves if they have not done anything wrong.


----------



## Bart (Apr 5, 2010)

She should also pull of some Neo stuff like in the Matrix 

Being able to fly, stop bullets, dodge almost any physical attack, superhuman strength, have a Matrix-esque suit like Neji and Gaara, and to also have some very cool shades like Aoba.

P.S. Nice one, Canute.


----------



## Skeith (Apr 5, 2010)

Kill Sasuke 

Then have a threesome with Hinata and Sakura over Sasuke dead body.


----------



## Muah (Apr 5, 2010)

How can NF redeem itself:ho


----------



## Skeith (Apr 5, 2010)

Learn Super-strength from Tsunade.

Adding that Super-strength to her weapon throwing and aim and she will be deadly.


----------



## Santeira (Apr 5, 2010)

Stop stalking Sasuke.


----------



## Geralt of Rivia (Apr 5, 2010)

Kill Sasuke. Then this manga wouldn't be plagued with filth anymore and we can focus solely on the god and savior, Naruto.

How's that?


----------



## YoshiPower (Apr 5, 2010)

WOOT, THANK GOD.
Finally someone who acknowledges Tenten.

Don't forget the jutsu she used against Kisame D;
even Kisame wuz afraid. He said if he get hit by that he'd by in serious troubles; :3


----------



## Naruku (Apr 5, 2010)

lose the i-wanna-be-jesus attitude.


----------



## Safer Saviour (Apr 5, 2010)

100% Ichigo said:


> Kill Sasuke. Then this manga wouldn't be plagued with filth anymore and we can focus solely on the god and savior, Naruto.
> 
> How's that?



BLASPHEMY!

The Great Watcher, Lord Zetsu... disapproves. Naruto saves filth; he's a demon, it's his nature xP


----------



## Naruku (Apr 5, 2010)

moronsakura should send herself to the school of the spastic.


----------



## Fr?t (Apr 5, 2010)

Fail thread. It's just more pointless bashing. Pointless, spiteful bashing.


----------



## Naruku (Apr 5, 2010)

it's not pointless bashing if it's your hated character that's being bashed.  if it's yor fav, it is.


----------



## Kuromaku (Apr 5, 2010)

It'd be sweet if she learned that jutsu Sasuke uses, wraps summoning sheets all over her, and then uses her outfit as a wearable armament.

And uses scrolls that use steel sheets so that they can serve as blunt weapons while being less vulnerable to attacks that would normally tear up her scrolls before she can summon.

Maybe also learn an element to complement her attacks.


----------



## zuul (Apr 5, 2010)

Stop with the kunais and shurikens. It's ineffective and learn some effective taijutsu from Gai.

But nah she has nothing to redeem herself about. It's not her fault if Kishi lets the rookies down.


----------



## AceBizzle (Apr 5, 2010)

Muah said:


> How can NF redeem itself:ho



You know you want to create that thread 



YoshiPower said:


> WOOT, THANK GOD.
> Finally someone who acknowledges Tenten.
> 
> Don't forget the jutsu she used against Kisame D;
> even Kisame wuz afraid. He said if he get hit by that he'd by in serious troubles; :3



You're right! And the anime made Tenten seem weak like she couldn't hold her breathe in the water prison when she was alright in the manga!


----------



## Naruku (Apr 5, 2010)

kill sakura. tenten will be worshiped like a goddess. i know tenten is capable of killing that retarded excuse of a lead female.


----------



## Fr?t (Apr 5, 2010)

Naruku said:


> it's not pointless bashing if it's your hated character that's being bashed.  if it's yor fav, it is.



You're so clever with your troll comments and attempts at tongue-in-cheek humor


----------



## Icognito (Apr 5, 2010)

*What would it take for Iruka to redeem himself?*

bandwagon I know but I couldn't resist. 

Discuss  Fixed the name now D=


----------



## MminatoO (Apr 5, 2010)

wth is going on with all the redeem threats lately?


----------



## AceBizzle (Apr 5, 2010)

zuul said:


> *Stop with the kunais and shurikens*. It's ineffective and learn some effective taijutsu from Gai.
> 
> But nah she has nothing to redeem herself about. It's not her fault if Kishi lets the rookies down.



I want this too.  Tenten is supposed to be a weapons specialist.  I wanna see some Sais, Katanas, Chain and Sickle, or something!  I guess my only hope for this kind of development is in the video games.



Naruku said:


> kill sakura. tenten will be worshiped like a goddess. i know tenten is capable of killing that retarded excuse of a lead female.


----------



## Naruku (Apr 5, 2010)

dude at least get the name right. iruka.


----------



## Fr?t (Apr 5, 2010)

He didn't do anything to deserve the need for redemption.


----------



## Wez ★ (Apr 5, 2010)

Who the fudge is Aruka?


----------



## AceBizzle (Apr 5, 2010)

At first, I was like "People making up OCs for redemption now?"


----------



## Deaf Ninja Reaper (Apr 5, 2010)

Who the fuck is Aruka?

Is he Madara's long-lost twin brother??


----------



## zuul (Apr 5, 2010)

Who is Aruka ?


----------



## Bart (Apr 5, 2010)

Hey Ben 

Probably finding out that Iruka that is the reincarnation of Rikudou. Unjokingly, he really needs to show us his aresenal of Jutsu, as it's something we've yet to see, even since Part I.


----------



## Alice (Apr 5, 2010)

Stop acting like a woman on her period and stop obsessing over boys who  rejected him 

Then again he can't redeem his loud-mouth obnoxious behavior cause this  is what makes up his character


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Apr 5, 2010)

*Link Removed*


----------



## AceBizzle (Apr 5, 2010)

Iruka needs to talk with Naruto about bonds


----------



## AMtrack (Apr 5, 2010)

*What would it take for Sasuke to redeem himself*

Yeah...because I have the testicular fortitude to go there


----------



## Hannibal (Apr 5, 2010)

If your speaking about Iruka, he is what he is.


----------



## zuul (Apr 5, 2010)

Iruka needs to sex up all those poor neglected girls.

He needs to work on the next generation of Konoha since the rest of the Konohan named cast is gay.


----------



## Bart (Apr 5, 2010)

Kishimoto no Jutsu


----------



## Hannibal (Apr 5, 2010)

Take a kill shot for Naruto, and that's about it


----------



## Skeith (Apr 5, 2010)

Stop this "Revenge" and "Power" trip.


----------



## zuul (Apr 5, 2010)

Starting smexing all those female that are wet for him. Starting with the Mizukage.  And the Hinata too, that would also redeem her for fangirling on Naruto. 

He should be ashamed for all the sexual frustrations he has put all those poor females in for years. He really needs to work hard on his atonement with his Uchiha mighty cock.


----------



## Kind of a big deal (Apr 5, 2010)

Darth Vader style killing Madara at the last moment at the cost of his own life.

And that's just for the character, he's crippled the story so much that only an immediate death plus a whole new series after a timeskip without any Uchiha would make it better again.


----------



## Fr?t (Apr 5, 2010)

Slow, painful death or GTFO


----------



## Selva (Apr 5, 2010)

If he helps Konoha/Naruto defeat Madara in the end, I'll welcome him with open arms  and also coming to the realization that he was a douche the entire time and finally asking for some forgiveness


----------



## Kuromaku (Apr 5, 2010)

Pull a Vader and actually feel sorry for all the shit he's pulled.

And none of that open arms bullshit, I expect it to be even tougher than Ussop's return to the crew in OP.

Also realized what Itachi gave Naruto--poorly written fanfic with a self insert of Itachi and Sasuke to help bring him back to the light side.  You heard it here first.


----------



## edzia_90 (Apr 5, 2010)

Naruku said:


> kill sakura. tenten will be worshiped like a goddess. i know tenten is capable of killing that retarded excuse of a lead female.



THIS


----------



## AceBizzle (Apr 5, 2010)

This is actually a good question.

I actually see Sasuke redeeming himself through death with Naruto or by blinding himself in some angst like confession like Oedipus.


----------



## Jeroen (Apr 5, 2010)

Tenten is already perfect the way she is and has done nothing... wrong


----------



## Safer Saviour (Apr 5, 2010)

Repent and die.

Now I've got my internal bias out of the way, I can be a little more objective xDD

I hate to admit it, but Sasuke is probably one of the biggest selling points of the manga right now. He's much more distinct than the other characters and while he has numerous flaws these wouldn't be as hard to fix for Kishimoto as... Sakura in general would be. 

However, I still find him _intolerable_ to read about on his own, so do many others and this _is_ a problem from an authorial point of view. Sasuke's decisions make no sense, the current direction of his character feels horribly contrived, his dialogue is some of the worst I've _ever_ heard or read and he's unnecessarily glorified at the _expense_ of other characters. 

How do you fix that? Well, making him lose more would be a start and have him question his beliefs so that the readers gain a better understanding of his perspective. One thing that must not (but probably will) happen is for Sasuke to get a 'happy', 'safe' ending where he marries Sakura or whoever and makes little Uchiha babies. That kind of character reversal would just about cause riots.


----------



## Balalaika (Apr 5, 2010)

I fully agree with the Vader idea.


----------



## AreoSamurai21 (Apr 5, 2010)

*She should carry around a kantana like a Samurai 

a kantana is a weapon right *


----------



## Specter Von Baren (Apr 5, 2010)

cbark42 said:


> "What can Kishi do to redeem the shallowness, the cliched, the horrid, the cringe worthy, and abysmal characterizations of his characters? I'm not talking just about the obvious, I'm talking about everyone."
> 
> you basically called _every_ character in the manga a piece of shit. how on earth did you get past chapter 1 and why do you even bother to discuss it?
> 
> makes no damn sense to read a story where you hate every character~



Did I say that I hated all the characters? No. I just hate how so many of them are handled poorly.  I actually loved Nagato, but I feel that at the end that he was handled poorly, I think his fight with Naruto was too quick and had little strategy and his view point on the world wasn't analyzed enough. Kishi is very good at one thing, making interesting characters and then failing to utilize their potential. I do love characters in this story, Nagato, Shino, Tayuya, I even became a Deidara fan after a while, I don't just hate this manga. Any negativity I have towards it is because of disappointment.


----------



## Euraj (Apr 5, 2010)

Laugh at Madara the way he did Kakashi.


----------



## zuul (Apr 5, 2010)

R o f l c o p t e r said:


> Tenten is already perfect the way she is and has done nothing... wrong



She treated Lee badly looking down on him and degrading him compared to Neji.

But she got over that disgusting behaviour so...


----------



## Balalaika (Apr 5, 2010)

She hasn't done anything to have anything to answer for. Poor girl.


----------



## Jeroen (Apr 5, 2010)

AMtrack said:


> What would it take for Sasuke to redeem himself ?



Break up with Kishi


----------



## Iamacloud (Apr 5, 2010)

Hinata needs to redeem herself?

Why?

She's pretty much the only rookie aside Shikamaru that has shown character development... 

Before the story Hinata would always give up and cry, had no self-esteem and was heading for disaster. Then she saw Naruto. He was in a similar (worse) situation and yet, did not give up. He inspired her and she vowed to become like him (turning her into someone she likes more).

As one of the weakest rookies, she got to face-off against the strongest rookie Neji, who happened to also have a personnal vendetta agaisnt her. Yet she gave him more of a fight than anyone expected and even politely told him to fuck off, making him lose it at the end.

And in part 2, she stood up to god to defend someone she cares for. Huge character development when you consider where she's comming from... (much better than other rookies or even some primary characters).

But here's a short review of things people seem to hold against her.

*Saying her love for Naruto defines her:* Is just wrong. In 450 she showed that she has no problem with Naruto being happy with someone else. In part one she said "I just wanted... to change myself... do it... *myself*". She never asked anything from Naruto, only used him as a rolemodel. She showed that even though Naruto was her goal, she defined herself by the road she took (hard work, never giving up, doing her best) rather than that goal. That's why she was smiling in 450. Naruto was alive, and she became a better person, someone she likes more. Of course she would like to be with Naruto, but it does not define her.
*
Saying she is wallpaper, submissive, doormat, etc:* Also wrong. In part one, she stood up to the strongest rookie and even slapped him verbally. In part 2 she stood up to the strongest shinobi in the world. Hinata showed that for things that are important to her (such as Naruto), she would stand up to anyone. If she could face Pain without stuttering...

*She is a Naruto fangirl like everyone else:* First, she is not like the others because she fell for him while he was still a loser. And she isn't really a fangirl. Fangirls are irrationnal in their love and actions. Hinata has a very virtuous way of loving Naruto (she admires him, sees his real strenght even as a kid and he makes her a better person, someone she likes more). And yet she is not fangirly. During their most intimate moment, she does call him a failure, but in such a nice way that it made Naruto feel better about himself. Fangirls don't call the object of their obsession a failure.

*She has penis eyes! She's ugly! She's fat! Talking boobs!:* Haters gonna hate.

*She's useless as a shinobi:* She used to be, but she worked hard enough to get promoted to chunin, showing she isn't anymore. She is a good scout and sensor and contrary to most females, isn't a medi-nin but actually a taijutsu specialist. Her fight against Pain was short, but she pushed him back in hand to hand combat, before showing a jutsu that is very likely to be her own creation, forcing Pain to use his own hax jutsu to avoid chakra lions to the face.


----------



## zuul (Apr 5, 2010)

I don't want to see him die (I'm such a fangirl), but he needs somethig nasty to happen to him. Being humiliated and fisted of love by Naruto won't be enough.

Maybe losing his sight and haxxxxxxxxxxxxxed eyes. And leaving a wandering life à la Kenshin...


-snip-


----------



## Wraith_Madara (Apr 5, 2010)

selvaspeedy said:


> If he helps Konoha/Naruto defeat Madara in the end,


This for a start. Death is, in my opinion, an easy way out.

And if Konoha gets destroyed again (it could happen), and Yamato is "busy" elsewhere, Sasuke will be the first one sent out in the rubble to rebuild it with his bare hands.


----------



## Jeroen (Apr 5, 2010)

zuul said:


> She treated Lee badly looking down on him and degrading him compared to Neji.
> 
> But she got over that disgusting behaviour so...



Pfft... that's nothing


----------



## Kuromaku (Apr 5, 2010)

*What Would It Take for Akabon Manabu to Redeem Himself?*

All right, since I started this mess in the first place, I suppose it's best that I be the one to end it.

Akabon Manabu (), the 38 year old genin who is regarded with infamy for his appearance (and likely failure of) in the first stage of that year's Chunin exam, is considered among the worst ninjas seen throughout the series, being compared with "luminaries" such as the Anbu who launched himself at the Sound 4's barrier, Tony the Tiger Mizuki, and anyone else who was pwned within a panel of their first appearance.

After failing the Chunin exams (again), he left Konoha to find his fortune, unfortunately, he ended up a male stripper.

After a violent run-in with a mentally unstable customer (), Manabu ended up in a nearby hospital, shortly before disappearing under mysterious circumstances.

Assuming that he tried to find some dignity, what do you believe he did to redeem himself?  Discuss.


----------



## Balalaika (Apr 5, 2010)

Not providing enough fanservice. That bastard.


----------



## Iamacloud (Apr 5, 2010)

Stop looking that much like a dolphin.


----------



## Balalaika (Apr 5, 2010)

No, he was a thirty-something genin failure. There's no redemption for something like that.


----------



## zuul (Apr 5, 2010)

Balalaika said:


> Not providing enough fanservice. That bastard.



You're right. He isn't losing his shirt enough. What a selfish bitch.


----------



## Iamacloud (Apr 5, 2010)

Actually get a fight in the manga that isn't off-panel or against herself...


----------



## Dejablue (Apr 5, 2010)

toriyama said:


> I agree with this. I think Sakura is the one that needs serious redemption.
> She is the most horribly written main heroine I've ever seen so far.
> 
> As for the side characters, I couldn't care less. They are what they are from the beginning. Redeeming/Developing them wouldn't make the story any better. I think the good part of the story Naruto is it's depth of the story. If he focuses too much on the side characters the story's depth will get shallow, especially when the story is about bonds between two characters.




This truely wouldn't be a problem if most if not all of the supporting cast weren't more interesting than the main characters.



selvaspeedy said:


> I think it's too late for a complete change.
> The only thing I can think of which might redeem some of his characters is to give them a damn important role in the upcoming war. It's their chance to shine. Naruto might be outside the village doing whatever and they will be there trying to save it or something. Shikamaru might lead a team of the Rookies to blow up bridges, bring in some supplies and weapons... etc you know these sort of stuff.



That is a pretty likely way to give them panel time


----------



## Setas1999 (Apr 5, 2010)

*What would it take for Kishimoto to redeem himself?*

I just couldn't resist.


----------



## Skeith (Apr 5, 2010)

Enough with the Uchia stories.


----------



## AceBizzle (Apr 5, 2010)

Man...honestly, at this point.  I think Kishi has really outdone himself.  I mean, how do you "destroy" Sakura's character right after you receive hate mail and negative response about Sakura not being a heroine? 

I think the Big 3 of Naruto, Sasuke, and Sakura are done.  I really wish Kishi would flesh out his story more.  I think that in itself will help him redeem some characters.  Like Ben said, give more backstory to the 4 major clans in Konoha as an example.  

I just got a feeling that the story has dwelved so much into Sasuke and the Uchihas...that adding anything not related to them would seem completely awkward.


----------



## siyrean (Apr 5, 2010)

Did she degrade Lee? I remember her thinking he didn't stand a chance against Neji, and rightly so, but never looking down on him. I remember her getting pissed in the forest of death that he had to protect Sakura where if in his own he could have handled the enimy easily. That sounds like respect to me.


----------



## Maerala (Apr 5, 2010)

Stop resurrecting every good character that dies. 

And more Chiyo's.


----------



## FitzChivalry (Apr 5, 2010)

Kill Madara. 

Play a significant role in achieving victory for the Alliance. 

Literally get down on his hands and knees and apologize for all of his antics and the near-strokes and heart attacks he gave to people who genuinely cared about him, even if he manages to achieve one of the first two things.


----------



## Kuromaku (Apr 5, 2010)

Work on developing side characters as something more than plot devices.  Write females as something other than  love interests or comic relief.  Avoid the dreaded deus ex machina (449, I'm looking at you).  Have his main character's arguments make more sense then a Chick Tract (Pain invasion, I'm looking at you).  Realize that you can't go in certain directions without possibly going against earlier themes (screw destiny my ass).  Don't hype characters by crapping on others.  Also, when foreshadowing something, don't always pull a red herring in favor of linking everything to the Sharingan and the Uchiha.


----------



## zuul (Apr 5, 2010)

Stop with the NaruSasu faggotery.

Stop with the hype device consisting in shating on a chara to cheaply make another one look good.

Stop with the supersayians.

Stop creating interesting charas to not do anything constructive with them.

Stop with the void non sensical praises.

Stop trying to write romance.

Let the rookies do something constructive.

Stop with the team 7 wangst.


----------



## Glued (Apr 5, 2010)

AceBizzle said:


> Man...honestly, at this point.  I think Kishi has really outdone himself.  I mean, how do you "destroy" Sakura's character right after you receive hate mail and negative response about Sakura not being a heroine?
> 
> I think the Big 3 of Naruto, Sasuke, and Sakura are done.  I really wish Kishi would flesh out his story more.  I think that in itself will help him redeem some characters.  Like Ben said, give more backstory to the 4 major clans in Konoha as an example.
> 
> I just got a feeling that the story has dwelved so much into Sasuke and the Uchihas...that adding anything not related to them would seem completely awkward.



If Marvel could save Hank Pym's character than Kishi can save Naruto's and Sakura's. Even Kirby couldn't save Hank Pym, but now Ant-man is actually pretty badass.

Kirby was one of the best. And a lesser writer, Dan Slott, saved Ant-man.

There is always hope.

Pym went from this

*Spoiler*: __ 








*Spoiler*: __ 








To this

*Spoiler*: __ 








*Spoiler*: __


----------



## zuul (Apr 5, 2010)

siyrean said:


> Did she degrade Lee? I remember her thinking he didn't stand a chance against Neji, and rightly so, but never looking down on him. I remember her getting pissed in the forest of death that he had to protect Sakura where if in his own he could have handled the enimy easily. That sounds like respect to me.



I'm a Lee tard so I'm a bit over sensitive about that stuff. But she learned to respect him so it's all right. I have nothing to complain about anymore on that matter.


----------



## Setas1999 (Apr 5, 2010)

kill madara.Tell Naruto to Kill himself.Than commit suicide


----------



## Momoka (Apr 5, 2010)

We just need to switch the author and make her have more panel time. 

Oh, and change her name to 2010 to double her appearance 


But I really like Tenten...


----------



## Foxve (Apr 5, 2010)

Help stop Madara and die somehow in the battle. He has to pay for the kills he made in the iron country. What about the families of the samurais he killed? Or being the reason the Raikage had to cut off his own arm(it wasn't a accident he was trying to kill the leader of another village)? It would be stupid as hell if he didn't have to anwser for _anything_ he did just cause Naruto "saves him from himself". Even if he is one of my favorite characters he has to pay for something. At the very least, if he does live, he has to have something done that stays with him for life be it mentally or physically....


----------



## AceBizzle (Apr 5, 2010)

I will add that every major redemption seems to have had some type of sacrifice...

Zabuza
Nagato
Chiyo-(Not a villian, but sacrificed herself for younger generation + repent for "old fools")
Danzou

Sasuke will have to sacrifice _something_


----------



## Iamacloud (Apr 5, 2010)

*What would it take for Kyubi to redeem itself?*

I'm sure Kyubi isn't really evil, he's just a troubled chakra demon. I'd bet anything that Kyubi never had someone he could call a friend. No one ever tried to understand him. No one looked at him. No one acknowledged him.

Naruto needs to have a good talk no jutsu with Kyubi, and turn him to the good side.

I think Kyubi would erase centuries of evilness if he became a good demon. You know, helping old ladies cross the street, donate some time as a big brother, run for cancer and just becomes warm and fuzzy chakra, just like Naruto.

Once Kyubi starts acting like a carebear, he will be redeemed in my eyes.


----------



## Hannibal (Apr 5, 2010)

*Try developing more characters, don't just focus on your favorite looking character

* Maybe longer chapters, would it kill you to add 5 more pages, or at least we don't need several panels of the characters going "?!" or "!!" to get your point across

* Try using plot that makes sense everyone once in awhile


----------



## FitzChivalry (Apr 5, 2010)

Is this a serious thread? I smell a hint of mocking at work here. Because everything suggested is utterly ridiculous.

There is no redemption for a thing such as Kyuubi, and the things proposed to make it redeemable so far are rather absurd. Those will never happen. All it does is destroy, destroy, and destroy some more. Even when put to good use like Naruto's tried to do wouldn't make it redeemable.

I will be closing this now, if only for the first part of my post.


----------



## Canute87 (Apr 5, 2010)

That would be the worst thing to ever happen in Naruto besides Sakura killing Madara.


----------



## Godammit (Apr 5, 2010)

What would it take to ban people that are copying other title and replace it with a stupid subject.


----------



## Hannibal (Apr 5, 2010)

Godammit said:


> What would it take to ban people that are copying other title and replace it with a stupid subject.



This, starting to get old


----------



## Godammit (Apr 5, 2010)

And here is another one


----------



## Canute87 (Apr 5, 2010)

The request is simple.

Focus on his other good characters the way he did with Sasuke.


----------



## Selva (Apr 5, 2010)

AceBizzle said:


> Sasuke will have to sacrifice _something_


His eyes? 

I don't want him to die in the end. Death is an easy way out. He should live on and suffer from his previous mistakes.


----------



## grinninggrizzly (Apr 5, 2010)

He shouldn't bother. Die a criminal and tell the world to fuck itself.I mean seriously, what's there for him to gain other than cheap plot sympathy. Just thumbs up naruto(for the good ol' days) and die smiling.


----------



## Dejablue (Apr 5, 2010)

American comics always have hope because you can always have different writers work on the same character. This probably isn't so with manga.


----------



## Canute87 (Apr 5, 2010)

When someone looks at a picture with people genuinely smiling and actually think they are laughing at you then boy there's no coming back from that. Sasuke's is as gone as the virginity of a prostitute .


----------



## Foxve (Apr 5, 2010)

So many of these in the library, so I decided to make one every character(and Kishi). Name your charater, what they have done wrong(at least in your eyes), and what can they do to redeem themselves. 

Discuss


----------



## ammarz (Apr 5, 2010)

i thing he's doing a good job.......
*gets ready for bashing*


----------



## Euraj (Apr 5, 2010)

Character: Anyone

Redemption: Blow up NF


----------



## taeko (Apr 5, 2010)

too many redeem..treads...must...go...to...candyland


----------



## FitzChivalry (Apr 5, 2010)

You know what? Good call. Any other threads like this, and they're all coming in here. Unless I deem them to be too jokey or mocking. Then they're going somewhere else.


----------



## Volture (Apr 5, 2010)

I know I'm good .


----------



## taeko (Apr 5, 2010)

he should give up making fodder nins and a romeo & juliet plot hole. only than he may truely call him self an air bender


----------



## zuul (Apr 5, 2010)

ammarz said:


> i thing he's doing a good job.......
> *gets ready for bashing*



I'm not going to bash, in fact I envy you for not being frustrated by the way things are going.


----------



## Glued (Apr 5, 2010)

Dejablue said:


> American comics always have hope because you can always have different writers work on the same character. This probably isn't so with manga.



Dan Slott did what Kirby himself couldn't do and Kirby was one of the best.

Who knows Kishi can always surprise. The possibility is there.


----------



## Balalaika (Apr 5, 2010)

^He's not the only one either. Let's riot until they're all shirtless!


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## Dejablue (Apr 5, 2010)

Maybe but it's just not how business is done with Manga as far as I know. Notice that your solution is basically* "Someone else besides the original author writes it"*  Do manga normally switch writers? How many manga are even co-written?  It's impossible unless Kishimoto willingly relinquishes to somebody else. 

With stuff like Marvel/DC/Dark Horse or whatever,  the characters are owned by the company and executives tell who to write what and who draws for what issues so on and so forth. 

So even if Batman ends up getting written by a shit writer in this series. This _other series_ makes up for it because the writer is more competent and understands Batman's characters and lore. Or they might fire the crappy writer and replace him with someone else.

Sometimes one series can cycle through several writers. It's just how things naturally work with Western Comic books.

 With Manga everyone is 100 percent one man's property.

No one can tell Kishimoto what to do. It's just like the Star Wars Prequals. Even though Lucas had people around him to "check and balance" his whacky ideas, nobody had the guts to tell him when to stop so the first 3 episodes are awful compared to the original movies, when people most likely went "Ok Lucas, you need to stop for a second and think about what you just said there...."


I mean Kishimoto admits to being a horrible romance writer. So instead of doing the common sense thing and *leaving it out*, he writes it in to further destroy some of his characters. Ugh I mean if he was desperate to have romance couldn't he have just gotten help or advice from someone who writes romance well? It's not like Kishimoto is so obscure in the manga world that nobody would help if he asked. But then again I don't know Japan so....

Who knows. Are there manga executives? I heard somewhere that for some reason he couldn't print unless he put in romance.


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## Shadow050 (Apr 5, 2010)

great thread Bizzle!

i've argued for tenten before... people talk shit, but she's actually one of the stronger girls out there.
her being pwned by temari doesn't make her weak like the tards think. temari was just strong AND a bad match up for tenten. tenten was stronger than every girl there besides temari (and MAYBE... MAYBE kin).

tenten's skill in taijutsu MATCHES naruto and sasuke's...

there's other arguments for her too.


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## Drunksnowball (Apr 5, 2010)

AceBizzle said:


> Welcome.
> 
> Believe it or not, I'm a fan of 1010. She's my fav. female out of the rookie 12 and tied with Karui as my fav. female in the series.
> 
> ...



guns and breast implants.  then she will be redeemed.


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## Shadow050 (Apr 5, 2010)

zuul said:


> I'm a Lee tard so I'm a bit over sensitive about that stuff. But she learned to respect him so it's all right. I have nothing to complain about anymore on that matter.



haha so if tenten is all good with you, then even neji is all good with you too right?

 remember even though neji kinda look down on people, lee included sort of, he also kinda respected him. neji was the one really pissed when he saw lee KO'd. not only that, he concluded that lee must have made a mistake. and prior to that he thought of lee and remembered him learn the lotus. the only issue neji ever had was his conflict with destiny, and thinking he actually knew what each person's was lol. other than that, he wasn't so bad lol.


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## Shadow050 (Apr 5, 2010)

Drunksnowball said:


> guns and breast implants.  then she will be redeemed.



who needs implants when you have chun-li hair buns?


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## Riyue (Apr 5, 2010)

^ THANK YOU! That's exactly how I feel.  I don't think Hinata would need to REDEEM herself, per se, but a little more screentime never hurt, neh? 
Anyway, +rep. You deserve it.


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## ソラのシン-사마 (Apr 5, 2010)

Has a Kunai ever killed anyone important?


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## -JT- (Apr 5, 2010)

More panel time. Tenten's one of my favourite girls, and I know that she could destroy about half of the Konoha 12 in battle.

The weirdest thing is that she's supposed to be Kishimoto's favourite girl (in design at least) yet she's been ignored so much


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## Sorin (Apr 5, 2010)

just keeping out of this manga cuz she hasn't done anything wrong...

and lose those fucking buns...seriously.



zuul said:


> I'm a Lee tard so I'm a bit over sensitive about that stuff. But she learned to respect him so it's all right. I have nothing to complain about anymore on that matter.




i bet you worship sakura when he treats naruto like shit.


Shadow050 said:


> great thread Bizzle!
> 
> 
> *tenten's skill in taijutsu MATCHES naruto and sasuke's...*



:rofl:rofl...funniest thing i've read in a while.


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## Chibibaki (Apr 5, 2010)

Forget Hinata. We need a "what would it take for Ten ten to redeem herself" topic.


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## zuul (Apr 5, 2010)

Shadow050 said:


> haha so if tenten is all good with you, then even neji is all good with you too right?
> 
> remember even though neji kinda look down on people, lee included sort of, he also kinda respected him. neji was the one really pissed when he saw lee KO'd. not only that, he concluded that lee must have made a mistake. and prior to that he thought of lee and remembered him learn the lotus. the only issue neji ever had was his conflict with destiny, and thinking he actually knew what each person's was lol. other than that, he wasn't so bad lol.



I have only ever bashed Neji during the flamewar with the Golden Byakugam. They were such nasty fanbois. Even worse than Sasutards/Narutards. You have no idea.
I'm not a huge fangirl of him, but he doesn't really pisses me off either. My only true disapointment is that Kishi never shew us Lee able to kick his ass, but after a while I come to the conclusion that I like it better that way. Lee grew up into a decent nin and that's what he was aiming at not becoming a powerhouse out of nowhere.



Sorin said:


> i bet you worship sakura when he treats naruto like shit.



Sort of. 

Nah not really, but it's not part of what pisses me off about Sakura.


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## Trent (Apr 5, 2010)

I'd say a simple change in philosophy and a crucial help in saving the world will do the trick.

Basically, he will get snapped out of his evil trip with Naruto defeating him and he will help him get rid of the threat of the big bad. 

Regardless of people he did wrong in the past moaning about it, redemption will be complete then.


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## Bakusaiga (Apr 5, 2010)

All of Tenten's on-screen battles involved her nearly being drowned.  

vs Kisame clone- anime expands on the scene and shows her passing out

vs Tenten clone- at the bottom of a river.  saved by wtf-electrical-appliance-working-underwater no jutsu used in unison with talk no jutsu.  stronger than yesterday? seriously?


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## Chibibaki (Apr 5, 2010)

Muah said:


> How can NF redeem itself:ho



No. NF is beyond all hope of redemption.


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## Shinigami Perv (Apr 5, 2010)

He hasn't done anything irreversible. I'd say if he just accepted Naruto as a friend and not attack the village, that would be good enough for Naruto (and he would make it good enough for the village.)

Like the guy above said, this might end Vader-style. Kishi loves ripping off Star Wars.


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## FitzChivalry (Apr 5, 2010)

Spammy. Also, there's a manga complaints thread. Kindly go there and post whatever grievance you have with Kishimoto's work.


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