# Big Boss vs Batman and Deathstroke



## Velocity (Jun 22, 2013)

No gadgets. No weapons. Big Boss is in prime condition as are his opponents. He fights Batman first, then Deathstroke and is of course fully healed afterwards.

*Scenario 1:* Straightforward CQC battle in a plain.

*Scenario 2:* This one is a bit more interesting. Big Boss and his current opponent are dropped into separate random locations within the jungles of Tselinoyarsk (the setting of Metal Gear Solid 3) in 1964, with no knowledge of where the other is. The winner is he who finds the other and kills them. Any and all equipment must be procured on site although there is no access to Groznyj Grad or the Shagohod for obvious reasons. 

Can Big Boss, the legendary soldier, take both scenarios?


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## Barago (Jun 22, 2013)

1) He CQC their asses.

2) He CQC their asses.

''Can Big Boss, the legendary soldier, take both scenarios?''

Yes.


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## TehChron (Jun 22, 2013)

In a word?

Nope.

Batman RIP puts damn near any survivalist feats of Big Boss to shame.

Deathstroke is like Batman, only hes perfectly willing to shoot Big Boss with a gun


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## Huey Freeman (Jun 22, 2013)

The team wins Deathstroke is a Mercenary meta human that does everything Boss can do but more.

As for CQC it depends can Boss handle Lady Shiva, Cassandra Cain or held his own with Richard Dragon.


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## Byrd (Jun 22, 2013)

It depends as in the MGS-verse CQC pretty much becomes the standard military MA...

Batman, I think has feats of surviving hits from superman and other Super Strength folks


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## Lucaniel (Jun 22, 2013)

> Batman, I think has feats of surviving hits from superman and other Super Strength folks



please don't take the debate in this thread down below danger dong levels by actually even mentioning that like it should be counted




anyway, what can big boss do?


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## TehChron (Jun 22, 2013)

Beat up legendary soldiers who wanted to die

Arthritis ridden clones of himself

Smacks around generic mooks

Took down Metal Gear or two 

Nothing really outstanding comes to mind, really


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## Byrd (Jun 22, 2013)

TehChron said:


> Beat up legendary soldiers who wanted to die
> 
> Arthritis ridden clones of himself
> 
> ...



I wouldn't go that far now... some of his feats he has display are quite impressive


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## Lucaniel (Jun 22, 2013)

come, on, guys, some actual information

speed/strength/skill?


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## TehChron (Jun 22, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> I wouldn't go that far now... some of his feats he has display are quite impressive



He won a fight against a schizophrenic psychic that was _literally fighting herself in order to assist him_?

Im drawing blanks


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## TehChron (Jun 22, 2013)

Lucaniel said:


> come, on, guys, some actual information
> 
> speed/strength/skill?


Speedwise hes not even a bullet timer


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## Byrd (Jun 22, 2013)

His strength is probably around peak-human like Batman

Speed-wise: Peak human also with Superhuman reflexes, as he is able to match Null and Grene in fights.. both characters are easily bullet-timing, I think they were calc into the low hypersonic regions 

Durability: Peak-Human with some superhuman Endurance feats  like surviving being torture with 10 million volts of electricity, Falling from a waterfall while heavily injured etc.



> Speedwise hes not even a bullet timer



He can react to bullets so thats not a problem


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## TehChron (Jun 22, 2013)

Null is a bullet timer?

Gray Fox sure is, as a Cyborg Ninja, but I dont recall Jaeger having a bullet timing feat as Null


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## Lucaniel (Jun 22, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> His strength is probably around peak-human like Batman
> 
> Speed-wise: Peak human also with Superhuman reflexes, as he is able to match Null and Gray Fox in fights.. both characters are easily bullet-timing, I think they were calc into the low hypersonic regions
> 
> ...



so were null and gray fox moving at hypersonic speeds when they fought him?


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## Byrd (Jun 22, 2013)

I meant Gene and yes Null is a bullet-timer...

Null and Gray Fox are basically the same person...



> Null is a bullet timer?



He been dodging bullets since he was first shown..



> so were null and gray fox moving at hypersonic speeds when they fought him?



Naw but I think someone did calcs from one of the scenes or something... I can try to find it on here


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## Huey Freeman (Jun 22, 2013)

How the hell is he hypersonic?


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## Tranquil Fury (Jun 22, 2013)

TehChron said:


> Speedwise hes not even a bullet timer



But Null was to a point he could deflect bullets with a machete, Null was beaten eventually in Portal Ops in a one on one fight.  Gene was also a bullet timer considering his speed allowed him to blitz Gatling fire and he could read minds, he's beaten too and admits Big Boss's "Soldier genes" make him the true successor to The Boss in Portal Ops.

Don't remember the Gene fight too well however but the Null fights he's able to match him as a threat before beating him eventually.

No comment on who wins, just correcting this point.


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## TehChron (Jun 22, 2013)

Oh, see?

I didnt play that, I only read the plot summary on the wiki


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## ChaosTheory123 (Jun 22, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> How the hell is he hypersonic?



Because an old bastard like Snake in the same series could apparently dodge rail gun fire?

Please, please pull the card where he's supposed to be a like a real world peak human or some shit you comic fapping tit.

Because then we can get into all sorts of hypocrisy involving various fuckers present in this thread too 

Let's get this straight, peak humans in fiction aren't peak human.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 22, 2013)

I've been meaning to ask - from how far away was that railgun dodged ?


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## ChaosTheory123 (Jun 22, 2013)

No fucking clue, but it seems in line with other feats mentioned by TF.

Kind of curious myself, but just figured I'd get the bullshit about blatantly superhuman peak humans in fiction out of the way.


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## Toriko (Jun 22, 2013)

> you comic fapping tit.



How you gonna call a man a tit? 

Putting my money on Big Boss though.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 22, 2013)

> just figured I'd get the bullshit about blatantly superhuman peak humans in fiction out of the way.


ofc, everyone here is at minimum bullet timer or more likely even sound speed+


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## Huey Freeman (Jun 22, 2013)

Yes but this isn't Snake. I don't care if he is peak human Bats kicked through a door to withstand missiles I understand. What I want to know what feat calculate him to hypersonic.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Jun 22, 2013)

Just another term for stupid Brohan 

@Danger Doom - Never heard of powerscaling?

Seriously, from what I understand, an aged solid snake was the one that dodged that rail gun.

The fucker himself being a clone of Big Boss or some shit.

What?  He was genetically altered to be naturally superhuman?  Why the fuck are they using Big boss as the base of the clone then?


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## TehChron (Jun 22, 2013)

Room had No cover, so Fortune had a bead on him the entire time.

Thats pretty insane no matter how you look at it.
Anyway, I dont like equating Big Bosses feats to Solids. By that reasoning, Solidus should have torn Raiden open like a tin can before splattering him.


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## Lucaniel (Jun 22, 2013)

anyways

i think we need to get one thing out of the way

deathstroke wins

what's big boss's greatest feat in terms of skill? or how much skill does he have? bats is master-level or proficient in 137 martial arts


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## Tranquil Fury (Jun 22, 2013)

Genes don't mean much, Liquid lost to Solid despite being better in genetic make up, Solidus was an aged clone who was mostly president before going back on the field. 

Solid is'nt above Big Boss in his prime so it's not a fallacy, Snake never fought BB in his prime but an old BB in his 50s to 60s. He was in his prime either in MSG3 or PeaceWalker.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 22, 2013)

speed debates are tiresome

they should all be pretty close speed-wise methinks


though Slade is the one with an enhanced healing factor


also I presume noone is wearing any special armor either


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## Byrd (Jun 22, 2013)

Here is the Railgun feat

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjgVBVHc9hQ[/YOUTUBE]

its around 3:30 and this is from old snake...a severely impaired snake probably spec-wise is the worst of them all


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## Huey Freeman (Jun 22, 2013)

Deathstroke has nth metal armour now doesn't he


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## ChaosTheory123 (Jun 22, 2013)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Genes don't mean much, Liquid lost to Solid despite being better in genetic make up



That's... actually not any sort of support for the stance "genes don't mean much"

So what, Solid defeated Liquid once.  That means, despite being inferior, it wasn't to the extent they weren't comparable.

Reality isn't a fucking digital simulation dude, sometimes the weaker opponent can take the stronger when the gap is small enough.  The stronger fucker still wins more often than not, but the weaker shit gets a pot shot in here and there.


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## Byrd (Jun 22, 2013)

Deathstroke wins for sure... that should be the common knowledge


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## TehChron (Jun 22, 2013)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Genes don't mean much, Liquid lost to Solid despite being better in genetic make up, Solidus was an aged clone who was mostly president before going back on the field.
> 
> Solid is'nt above Big Boss in his prime so it's not a fallacy, Snake never fought BB in his prime but an old BB in his 50s to 60s. He was in his prime either in MSG3 or PeaceWalker.



Forgot about Crying Wolf...

Anyway, fair enough


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## ChaosTheory123 (Jun 22, 2013)

.

What's this TF was asking about anyway?


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## Tranquil Fury (Jun 22, 2013)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YwoPH7GBvo[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szvOqovVV_s[/YOUTUBE]

17 secs Null deflects bullets with his machete

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyy0UBgJLPE[/YOUTUBE]

"Why?Why do you live?No man can meet the perfect soldier in battle and live but you won't die"


They fight more than once with BB giving him trouble in a later fight to show his improvement.

I'm not commenting on who wins, Big Boss is a bullet timer. The old snake feat has also been posted.

He only gets better from Portal Ops till Peace Walker.


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## Cromer (Jun 23, 2013)

I would say Batman dies, and its 50:50 on whether Deathstroke wins or dies as well.


And Old Snake's feats are NOT Big Boss' feats; let's stop that before it goes anywhere.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Jun 23, 2013)

Cromer said:


> And Old Snake's feats are NOT Big Boss' feats; let's stop that before it goes anywhere.



Who said they were?

But you're implying an aged clone of the fucker could do it... but Big Boss himself couldn't in his prime?

Once more, I ask, was he specifically genetically altered to be super humanly superior to Big Boss?  Because an old fuck genetic copy of the fucker in his prime not being able to emulate this shit otherwise is horseshit.

Or perhaps the concept of powerscaling eludes you, not that he needs it going of TF's posts.


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## Jon Snow (Jun 23, 2013)

Someone as.... human as Bruce Wayne stands no chance


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## Tranquil Fury (Jun 23, 2013)

Someone had to eventually say Batman=regular human , no character in this thread is a regular human.



> And Old Snake's feats are NOT Big Boss' feats; let's stop that before it goes anywhere



So you're saying an old Snake>Big Boss in his prime?Old Snake is a Snake whose in pain due to accelerated aging, he's well past his prime.

And someone think it was Danger Doom said Snake was modified to be superhuman?Yeah no,  Big Boss is superhuman, he resisted torture from Volgin who had superhuman strength and 10 million volts of electricity, he's fought beings with supernatural powers and superhuman stats.

I just posted the Null vs Big Boss fight, Null is blatant superhuman who deflects bullets with a machete, how is Big Boss not superhuman?.


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## Adamant soul (Jun 23, 2013)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Someone had to eventually say Batman=regular human , no character in this thread is a regular human.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Funny thing is I've got a friend who has actually played the series an doesn't think Big Boss is superhuman. I keep trying to explain that he wouldn't be able to fight people who dodge bullets if he wasn't superhuman but he just explains that with lolskill. Honestly I haven't played the games but what I have heard is enough to confirm AL of the main characters are superhuman. Even human Raiden before becoming a cyborg beat Solidus with nothing but his HF blade.If Big Boss can beat Bruce and Slade or not is another story though.


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## Byrd (Jun 23, 2013)

He isn't beating Deathstroke especially if he has that armour... 

Batman is debateable....


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## Huey Freeman (Jun 23, 2013)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Someone had to eventually say Batman=regular human , no character in this thread is a regular human.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wasn't me, I have not made a point about Big Boss


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## Tranquil Fury (Jun 23, 2013)

Fair enough after going through page 2 again.


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## Huey Freeman (Jun 23, 2013)

One thing been bothering me and I see this in a lot of threads related to it how exactly does CQC superior to Bats MA expertise? Bats is more skilled in H2H than Deathstroke and has far more feats with it than say Big Boss.


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## Bullbob (Jun 23, 2013)

I was wondering about Old Snake's bodysuit. Didn't they say ingame that the suit enhanced the users' strengh and reflexes? I know old Snake is past his prime and weaker, but if we don't know by how much the suit enhances his capacities, we can't really powerscale him to other Snakes that don,t wear a suit (well at least for MGS4 feats his other appearances are scalable).


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## Tranquil Fury (Jun 23, 2013)

I thought the muscle suit was to make compensate to some extent for him being essentially a dying old man, doubt it would somehow put him that much above his old self. He's shown to be in pain at times due to the accelerated aging caused by the cloning process.

He suffered from bad eyesight(needed a special patch), arthritis, back pain, etc. from his advanced aging. So he was realistically in a lot worse state even with his suit then he was in MGS1

Eh fair enough though so the increase is unknown.


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## Byrd (Jun 23, 2013)

I thought it was stated that the suit allow snake to move like his old self... to make up for is deterring body


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## Tranquil Fury (Jun 23, 2013)

You have a link?I'd like to see that.

Does'nt matter overall as I dropped using MGS 4 Snake to scale onto Big Boss due to the unknown level increase from the suit.


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## Kentakobachi (Jul 4, 2013)

Tranquil Fury said:


> But Null was to a point he could deflect bullets with a machete, Null was beaten eventually in Portal Ops in a one on one fight.  Gene was also a bullet timer considering his speed allowed him to blitz Gatling fire and he could read minds, he's beaten too and admits Big Boss's "Soldier genes" make him the true successor to The Boss in Portal Ops.
> 
> Don't remember the Gene fight too well however but the Null fights he's able to match him as a threat before beating him eventually.
> 
> No comment on who wins, just correcting this point.



Big Boss beat Null but that doesn't mean Big Boss is a bullet timer

For people who saw Wolverine Origins a few years ago, Ryan Reynolds Deadpool was able to casually deflect machine gun fire from numerous gunmen but still lose to Hugh Jackman Wolverine.

Beating a bullet timer doesn't mean sh*t.  Especially when the bullet timer is an emotionally unstable teenager like Null was.  




Fluttershy said:


> speed debates are tiresome
> 
> they should all be pretty close speed-wise methinks
> 
> ...



If you think that then you must know little about the characters involved here

On 2 seperate occassions, Big Boss was surrounded by 4 soldiers and helpless, in one ocassion Eva had to save him, in the other, the 4 soldiers beat his ass and captured him.  




Byrdman said:


> He isn't beating Deathstroke especially if he has that armour...
> 
> Batman is debateable....


 Batman isn't debateable either.  Comic characters are so far above MGS characters that it's not even funny.  Big Boss, who can't even bullet time.  Where Batman benches 1200 lbs for his daily workout routine, characters like Big Boss haven't a single comparable strength feat,.

In hand to hand Big Boss would not survive more than a minute against Bats let alone Deathstroke.   Big Boss and Solid Snake are like Punisher, except weaker, slower, less skilled and less intelligent versions of Punisher.  Because Neither Big Boss nor Snake would survive more than a minute against someone like Daredevil or Daken.


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## Tranquil Fury (Jul 4, 2013)

> Big Boss beat Null but that doesn't mean Big Boss is a bullet timer
> 
> For people who saw Wolverine Origins a few years ago, Ryan Reynolds Deadpool was able to casually deflect machine gun fire from numerous gunmen but still lose to Hugh Jackman Wolverine.
> 
> Beating a bullet timer doesn't mean sh*t. Especially when the bullet timer is an emotionally unstable teenager like Null was



Beating a bullet timer in direct combat against a super soldier whose obsessed with killing you does'nt make you a bullet timer?. You're making excuses.

Big Boss does fight characters like Gene and Null, Gene even acknowledging Big Boss as The Boss's successor after defeat, Null fought Big Boss more than once and was obsessed with beating Big Boss.

Burden of proof is on you for proving Null's reflexes suddenly don't work at bullet timing levels against Big Boss *when he bullet timed in atleast one of their fights itself*.


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## Kentakobachi (Jul 4, 2013)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Beating a bullet timer in direct combat against a super soldier whose obsessed with killing you does'nt make you a bullet timer. You're making excuses.



Once again, Hugh Jackman beat Ryan Reynolds despite the latter being an uber bullet timer and the former not being one.

Show Big Boss bullet timing, otherwise you have no basis for your argument.  




Adamant soul said:


> Funny thing is I've got a friend who has actually played the series an doesn't think Big Boss is superhuman. I keep trying to explain that he wouldn't be able to fight people who dodge bullets if he wasn't superhuman but he just explains that with lolskill. Honestly I haven't played the games but what I have heard is enough to confirm AL of the main characters are superhuman. Even human Raiden before becoming a cyborg beat Solidus with nothing but his HF blade.If Big Boss can beat Bruce and Slade or not is another story though.



Really? Because I've beaten every Metal Gear game and I can say without a doubt that MGS humans are not superhuman, in fact by comic standards they aren't even peak human

Solid Snake
Was unable to break a pair of hand cuffs
Was blitzed by Vamp who isn't a bullet timer and has the ability to read muscles
Was beaten down and captured by 3 soldiers
Was held up at gun point by Meryl
Was held up at gun point by Johnny

Big Boss
Was surrounded by 4 soldiers in MGS3, saved by Eva
Admitted that Ocelot would of killed him had his gun not jammed
Surrounded by 4 soldiers in Peace Walker, Captured and beaten
Was taken down by Cunningham, a fat black man with a crippled leg

Big Boss and Snake are on the same level as video game humans like

Sam Fisher
Ezio
Agent 47

They aren't anywhere near comic book peak humans let alone enhanced one's like Deathstroke.


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## Tranquil Fury (Jul 4, 2013)

> Once again, Hugh Jackman beat Ryan Reynolds despite the latter being an uber bullet timer and the former not being one.
> 
> Show Big Boss bullet timing, otherwise you have no basis for your argument



No I don't care for a movie I have'nt seen in forever so stop bringing that up and focus on the actual fights.

Null= bullet timer
Null= bloodlusted in their fights
Big Boss= beat Null

You claimed beating a bullet timer does'nt make one a bullet timer, unfortunately for you Null's bullet times with his reflexes, meaning Big Boss engaging Null directly is going to require such reactions.

Gene= bullet timer who could also read minds and had psychic powers to TK

He lost too in a fight to prove who was The Boss's worthy successor and admitted Big Boss was one. 

Yeah Big Boss the dude who took hits from Volgin a blatant superhuman and resisted millions of volts of electricity with The Boss even saying Volgin would'nt be able to make him talk is clearly not superhuman.

Solidus deflecting machine gun fire with an exo suit using his blade and Raiden matching him in swordsmanship directly is not superhuman.

The Cobra unit, Psycho mantis and others are not supernatural or superhuman despite blatant superhuman feats as per you .







> They aren't anywhere near comic book peak humans let alone enhanced one's like Deathstroke



Seeing as how no one claimed Big Boss could beat Deathstroke or any MGS character, what are you going on about?


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## Kentakobachi (Jul 4, 2013)

Tranquil Fury said:


> No I don't care for a movie I have'nt seen in forever so stop bringing that up and focus on the actual fights.
> 
> Null= bullet timer
> Null= bloodlusted in their fights
> ...



Beating a bullet timer doesn't make you a bullet timer.  I can name numerous examples, it doesn't matter if you dismiss them, it doesn't change the fact that Big Boss needs an actual bullet timing feat to be considered a bullet timer, end of story

Hugh Jackman Wolverine beat Ryan Reynolds Wolverine
Chris and Sheva beat Wesker
Punisher has beaten Daredevil

By this logic that you're using everytime someone hits Spiderman or any other fast character they would need similar reaction.  It doesn't work like that and I've listed several examples.

Oh and just for sh*ts and giggles

Link removed

4:44 seconds in, Ocelot is about to shoot Big Boss, the gun gets jammed because Ocelot tried to manually reload it

Link removed

1:01 in Big Boss ADMITS that Ocelot would of killed him had he not been showing off.

So there, Big Boss is a bullet timer yet admits Ocelot would of killed him

And had you played Portable Ops you would know that Big Boss beat Gene through a plot device, Gene's constant use of Zero Shift exhausted him and gave Big Boss a chance to kick his ass.  Again, play the game

Volgin isn't superhuman either.

Link removed

11:57

Volgin is unable to damage this concrete

The reason why Volgin is able to punch through concrete and through the Shagohod's armor is because he ignites the bullets in his hand to create a gunpowered type effect.

It's on the MGS wiki and it's in the MGS3 strategy guide

_"Volgin was also known to perform an attack that did damage on three levels; to hold four bullets between his knuckles, punch a person, and drop the bullet casings in an intimidating manner. It worked three-fold, a punch, igniting the bullet's gunpowder for a "gunshot" effect, and using the metal of the bullets to conduct an electricity shock on the opponent. He first showcased this ability on a concrete wall after learning from The Boss that The Pain had been killed by Naked Snake. He then performed it on Granin, who was imprisoned inside a metal drum"_

Big Boss also did not withstand millions of volts of electricity, it was only stated that Volgin had 10 million volts running through his body, not that he was projecting millions of volts into an attack.
Also volts don't kill you, amps do, which is why real life humans have survived being struck my lightning


In almost every boss fight in MGS, Big Boss, Raiden and Snake use weaponry, tactics and or surroundings to beat their opponents.  In fights like Snake vs Gray Fox, there's circumstances, and in fights like Gene and Psycho Mantis their are plot devices such as putting the controller in the opposite port.

You should really educate yourself on the series before posting again, just a thought


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## Tranquil Fury (Jul 4, 2013)

Chris and Sheva beat Wesker because he was dicking around, nice try. Not the same as Big Boss vs Null or Big Boss vs Gene.



> it doesn't change the fact that Big Boss needs an actual bullet timing feat to be considered a bullet timer, end of story



Not how it works here, he's beaten atleast two fairly, that's enough. You making excuses  about Null's condition when it's made clear he's actively focused in fighting a worthy opponent and even admits Big Boss>him is moot.



> Volgin was also known to perform an attack that did damage on three levels; to hold four bullets between his knuckles, punch a person, and drop the bullet casings in an intimidating manner. It worked three-fold, a punch, igniting the bullet's gunpowder for a "gunshot" effect, and using the metal of the bullets to conduct an electricity shock on the opponent. He first showcased this ability on a concrete wall after learning from The Boss that The Pain had been killed by Naked Snake. He then performed it on Granin, who was imprisoned inside a metal drum"



And The Boss makes it clear, nothing Volgin could do would make Naked Snake talk, changes nothing as no superstrength or  whatever he used to punch Shagohod was going to do it.

So Volgin's "three level" damage as you put it would'nt make Naked Snake talk.


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## Nevermind (Jul 4, 2013)

Are we seeing a troll actually making annoying arguments? :amazed

Great! We need the entertainment.


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## Kentakobachi (Jul 4, 2013)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Chris and Sheva beat Wesker because he was dicking around, nice try. Not the same as Big Boss vs Null or Big Boss vs Gene.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I already showed a video of Big Boss admitting Ocelot would of killed him

Tell you what do, when Big Boss stops getting getting railed by overweight cripples like Cunningham, maybe I'll consider him a peak human :lol:

Once again, play the game, Volgin wasn't using bullets when he was beating Big Bosses ass, it was those same punches that couldn't damage concrete





Jon Snow said:


> Someone as.... human as Bruce Wayne stands no chance



Inorite?

A guy like Bruce Wayne who beat the living crap out of 15 League of Assassins Man Bats, who have superhuman stats, senses, weaponry and League level skill.





Is no match for Big Boss, a guy with minimal skill, who can't bullet time, and gets cornholed by 4 soldiers




Dat logic


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## Tranquil Fury (Jul 4, 2013)

Big Boss is a character whose career goes from MSG 3 to Portal Ops to Peace Walker, he's past his prime post that due to the coma and losing hand plus aging. Big Boss also beat down Ocelot and matched The Boss, him admitting Ocelot could have killed him at one point in his career will not undo his overall career or the fact it's made clear Big Boss>Ocelot.

Big Boss is the one Ocelot admires and considered the greatest Soldier of the 20th Century, the man who beat Null, Gene, took out multiple Metal Gears, beat the Cobra Unit, resisted Volgin's torture, fought The Boss after letting go of his self restraint etc.

Why do you keep ignoring him beating elite Soldiers with supernatural powers or genetic enhancement?

Cunningham?Gene>>>>Him and considering him as nothing but acknowledged Big Boss as better than him(Gene).


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## Kentakobachi (Jul 4, 2013)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Big Boss is a character whose career goes from MSG 3 to Portal Ops to Peace Walker, he's past his prime post that due to the coma and losing hand plus aging.
> 
> Big Boss is the one Ocelot admires and considered the greatest Soldier of the 20th Century, the man who beat Null, Gene, took out multiple Metal Gears, beat the Cobra Unit, resisted Volgin's torture etc.
> 
> Why do you keep bringing up Cunningham when he was captured during a fight with Null then tortured a lot?Why do you keep ignoring him beating elite Soldiers with supernatural powers or genetic enhancement?



Da fuq?  Ocelot didn't even know Big Boss when they first met.  

Big Boss admitted Ocelot would of killed him if his  gun didn't jam.  He can't bullet time.  End of story

I'm aware of who Big Boss has beaten, your point?  

Why do you keep ignoring the fact that most MGS Bosses are featless.
Why do you keep ignoring the fact that Big Boss and Snake beat most MGS bosses with weapons, tactics, environmental advantages and information?

Cunningham beat Big Bosses ass when Big Boss was surrounded by soldiers.  But you said he was as fast as Null because he beat Null right?

Link removed

:53 seconds in Big Boss is surrounded by 4 soldiers and admits he's trapped.
EVA saves him

Where are Big Bosses bullet timing reflexes?

Clearly you believe he's as fast as Null right?

Even though here

Link removed

11:35 in Null kills 4 soldiers with a machete


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## Tranquil Fury (Jul 4, 2013)

Ocelot did'nt know who Big Boss was in MGS3, he does later on so the point remains. Not to mention Portal Ops takes place after MGS3 making this even more moot. 

Yes and Null is surprised why Big Boss does not die  and even gets obsessed with fighting him as their encounters show with Big Boss being a credible threat. He also admits Big Boss>him at some point.

You keep saying Big Boss is not superhuman for fighting superhumans and beings with supernatural powers that no regular human can beat, it's not going to help you here.

A normal human does not make a career of matching superhumans and supernatural beings directly in a fight and besting them fairly in practically every game they appear in their prime.


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## Kentakobachi (Jul 4, 2013)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Ocelot did'nt know who Big Boss was in MGS3, he does later on so the point remains. Not to mention Portal Ops takes place after MGS3 making this even more moot.
> 
> Yes and Null is surprised why Big Boss does not die  and even gets obsessed with fighting him as their encounters show with Big Boss being a credible threat. He also admits Big Boss>him at some point.
> 
> ...



What point?  The point I made is that Ocelot would of killed Big Boss had his gun not jammed, and Big Boss admitted this.  Therefore Big Boss is NOT a bullet timer because by his own admission he would of been killed.  

No one said Big Boss wasn't a credible threat to Null.  Big Boss is clearly more skilled, a better tactician, stronger and more experienced than Null, these advantages would outweigh Null's speed advantage, hence my original point that you don't need to be as fast as someone to beat them.

I keep saying Big Boss and Snake aren't superhuman because they aren't superhuman.  I don't care how many featless bosses they beats, they beat the majority of their  bosses with weaponry, tactics and field advantage.  It makes makes Big Boss and Snake good soldiers, not superhuman.

This may come as a surprise to you, but superhumans don't get manhandled by guys like Cunningham and Volgin, and they certainly don't get beaten down and captured by 4 soldiers




Look at Big Boss! Use your bullet timing speed to escape



Oh..wait...


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## Matta Clatta (Jul 4, 2013)

MGS hardly takes itself seriously most of the time 
hence why you have infinite ammo bandana's and patriots 
Its far more likely to take the lolfiction aspects of the series at face value instead of just drawing comparisons to inscrutable outlandish feats. Everything in the series is inconsistent or hokey so everything becomes consistent.

For instace cyborg ninja is hilariously stronger and faster than solid snake. Snake is able to keep up with him(at least in twin snakes cutscenes) and actually beat him but he still loses to 4 soldiers surrounding him and knocking him out.

Of course snake is no where near Batman or Deathstroke going by average feats but the people he's beaten are closer to the superhumans that would match up well to either of them.

Now of course if you put snake and big boss' victories down to their gear and being extremely well equipped which is partly true you also have to go by the gameplay and cutscenes and not just throw them out.


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## Redterror (Jul 4, 2013)

Doesn't Big Boss stop Metal Gear from stepping on him with pure strength in Peace Walker? It happens in a QTE I think.


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## Kentakobachi (Jul 4, 2013)

Matta Clatta said:


> MGS hardly takes itself seriously most of the time
> hence why you have infinite ammo bandana's and patriots
> Its far more likely to take the lolfiction aspects of the series at face value instead of just drawing comparisons to inscrutable outlandish feats. Everything in the series is inconsistent or hokey so everything becomes consistent.
> 
> ...


  While I agree about the game not taking itself seriously most of the time, some parts are circumstansial like Gray Fox wanting to die which explains why he didn't punch Snake's head off.  And later in Metal Gear Rising explained that he kept having spasms because his nerve endings were f'cked up.  

But then there's instances like Raiden being able to hold back Outer Haven yet struggling with so much with Vamp even after he lost his regeneration


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## Adamant soul (Jul 5, 2013)

Beating a bullet timer doesn't make you a bullet timer? 
Using the Wesker fight as an example when a guy Chris was evenly matched with in 6 reacts to casual bullet timers (Lickers) at close range, which makes him at least a low-tier bullet timer himself otherwise he would get blitzed. This of course being Leon. Sheva alone fought Jill (who was amped by a serum and blatantly bullet timing herself) for several minutes without dying. Wesker just happens to be a cut above the rest when it comes to bullet timing. 

Now, if Null is confirmed to have bullet-timed EVEN ONCE during his fight with big boss and big boss is shown to have reacted to him at close range, he is a bullet-timer end of discussion. Also using low-end feats to discredit better ones doesn't fly around here.


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## Kentakobachi (Jul 5, 2013)

Funny thing is it's not a low showing

materialize

0:53

Big Boss gets jumped by 4 soldiers, admits that he's trapped and needs Eva to save him

materialize

1:02 seconds in

Big Boss admits Ocelot would of killed him had his gun not jammed

So  two instances of Big Boss being helpless against 4 soldiers and one instance of him admitting Ocelot would of killed him, and 2 more instances of Big Boss getting beaten down by fat f*ckers like Cunningham and Volgin

Five instances of Big Boss failing in situations where actual bullet timers wouldn't have had an issue. 

Big Boss isn't a bullet timer, end of story.


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## Byrd (Jul 5, 2013)

>Using Volgin who is clearly superhuman as an example 


>Using his low feats as an example


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## Kentakobachi (Jul 5, 2013)

Yes because Volgin had superhuman speed

And of course..because 5 instances of failure equates low showings...in order for them to be low showings you'd need 6 instances of Big Boss actually bullet timing..so far there are zero..


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## Byrd (Jul 5, 2013)

Kentakobachi said:


> Yes because Volgin had superhuman speed
> 
> And of course..because 5 instances of failure equates low showings...in order for them to be low showings you'd need 6 instances of Big Boss actually bullet timing..so far there are zero..



Volgin had superhuman speed right... Snake defeated him via CCC.

Snake has physical match opponents who are bullet timing in hand to hand combat and reacted to them


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## Kentakobachi (Jul 5, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> Volgin had superhuman speed right... Snake defeated him via CCC.
> 
> Snake has physical match opponents who are bullet timing in hand to hand combat and reacted to them




I was being sarcastic, you stated that Volgin was superhuman when the only thing he showed was electrical manipulation, which has nothing to do with him beating Big Bosses face in

It doesn't matter, there are other factors involved, Big Boss is clearly more skilled, stronger physically, more experienced and has access to better weaponry than Null does.  These factors make up for Null's speed advantage

I've shown 5 instances of Big Boss which prove that he isn't a bullet timer.  

If Big Boss was a bullet timer he wouldn't have gotten train wrecked by 3 slower, larger opponents with little to no fighting skill.  
If Big Boss was a bullet timer he wouldn't have been helpless against 4 soldiers on 2 separate occasions
Null was able to kill 4 soldiers with his machete
Big Boss had 2 opportunities and blew both of them.


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## capually (Jul 13, 2013)

Matta Clatta said:


> MGS hardly takes itself seriously most of the time
> hence why you have infinite ammo bandana's and patriots
> Its far more likely to take the lolfiction aspects of the series at face value instead of just drawing comparisons to inscrutable outlandish feats. Everything in the series is inconsistent or hokey so everything becomes consistent.
> 
> ...



This is the only post here that's made any sense

The idiocy of this forum is staggering

No, Big Boss fighting Null does not make him a bullet timer

Big Boss has shown numerous times that isn't a bullet timer from being held up at gun point to getting owned by guys like Cunningham

Idiots call these low showings when they are perfectly consistent with the character,  even if fighting Null made him a bullet timer, which it doesn',t, that's still one showing vs five showings. even if you throw in Gene who big boss only beat through plot, it would still be 2 showings vs five showings.  But since they aren't even showings that's beside the point, BB has no bullet time showings and 5 or 6 instances of him showing the polar opposide 

This guy nailed it on the head, Big Boss and snake wouldnt last more than a minute against either of these 2 going by average showings,

I've seen several thread here and objectively speaking Naruto Forums is the special ed class of internet forums.


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