# American teacher in Japan under fire for lessons on Japan?s history of discrimination



## DeDeMouse (Feb 22, 2013)

--Deleted--


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## Mael (Feb 22, 2013)

> there is also racism in Japan



Um, Asia is one of the most racist continents out there.  It's just that even when people call them out on it they simply do not a) give a shit or b) feel bad about it.  That sort of callousness is almost enviable.


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## Seto Kaiba (Feb 22, 2013)

Japanese can ironically display a lack of humility when it pertains to addressing social issues. Although, this is what the teacher did that goes against their cultural expectations. In Japan, one is expected to be silent and keep their head down about issues they see in the country as "it doesn't concern you", but he is rightfully so, speaking out about the discriminatory practices in Japan. He is standing out, and this is discouraged.


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## Kirito (Feb 22, 2013)

Mael said:


> Um, Asia is one of the most racist continents out there.  It's just that even when people call them out on it they simply do not a) give a shit or b) feel bad about it.  That sort of callousness is almost enviable.



not racist. prideful. most asians dont give a shit about race. asians are just fiercely nationalistic, and as seen with japan, are willing to forget the dirty part of their history as we asians are so deeply rooted and entrenched in our culture. btw that stuff up there only applies to the rich asian countries like china, japan, mongolia, korea. other asian countries are more accepting of the dirty parts of our history, but racist? no we're not.

unlike you guys we don't call each other out on the sizes of our eyes or skin color.

my source: im asian and i live in asia


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## Mael (Feb 22, 2013)

^I'll debate that.  There's a pretty antagonistic view toward anyone of darker skin color in East Asian countries not to mention the glaring Han supremacist views in most of China.  I've definitely heard and seen enough racist remarks toward Filipinos, Thai, Viet, etc., all because they're darker...and that's not even going into the feelings on South-Central Asians and blacks.

hcheng and kluang made some decent points about the Asian culture when it comes to things like this.

Face matters more than anything else, even the sense of rectifying errors.  Obviously such issues are no problem bringing up in Western countries but you might as well have murdered your family and friends if you bring up the glaring fault of your nation or people.


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## Seto Kaiba (Feb 22, 2013)

Kirito said:


> not racist. prideful. most asians dont give a shit about race. asians are just fiercely nationalistic, and as seen with japan, are willing to forget the dirty part of their history as we asians are so deeply rooted and entrenched in our culture. btw that stuff up there only applies to the rich asian countries like china, japan, mongolia, korea. other asian countries are more accepting of the dirty parts of our history, but racist? no we're not.
> 
> unlike you guys we don't call each other out on the sizes of our eyes or skin color.
> 
> my source: im asian and i live in asia



Bullshit. You guys give an enormous shit about race, even to the point where you actively discriminate against your own fellow asians for things so small as regional origins.


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## Kirito (Feb 22, 2013)

Mael said:


> ^I'll debate that.  There's a pretty antagonistic view toward anyone of darker skin color in East Asian countries not to mention the glaring Han supremacist views in most of China.  I've definitely heard and seen enough racist remarks toward Filipinos, Thai, Viet, etc., all because they're darker...and that's not even going into the feelings on South-Central Asians and blacks.
> 
> hcheng and kluang made some decent points about the Asian culture when it comes to things like this.
> 
> Face matters more than anything else, even the sense of rectifying errors.  Obviously such issues are no problem bringing up in Western countries but you might as well have murdered your family and friends if you bring up the glaring fault of your nation or people.



*btw that stuff up there only applies to the rich asian countries like china, japan, mongolia, korea.*

i said that didn't I? i don't see singaporeans masking their black market history, or the malaysians denying their lease on sabah from the philippines.



Seto Kaiba said:


> Bullshit. You guys give an enormous shit about race, even to the point where you actively discriminate against your own fellow asians for things so small as regional origins.



american view on china being generalized to all others.


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## Seto Kaiba (Feb 22, 2013)

Kirito said:


> *btw that stuff up there only applies to the rich asian countries like china, japan, mongolia, korea.*
> 
> i said that didn't I? i don't see singaporeans masking their black market history, or the malaysians denying their lease on sabah from the philippines.
> 
> ...



No, that's Japan, Korea, and the Southeastern asian region too. Also, if white or especially blacks started migrating to those places the populace there would freak the hell out.


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## Mael (Feb 22, 2013)

Kirito said:


> *btw that stuff up there only applies to the rich asian countries like china, japan, mongolia, korea.*
> 
> i said that didn't I? i don't see singaporeans masking their black market history, or the malaysians denying their lease on sabah from the philippines.
> 
> american view on china being generalized to all others.



Lol Mongolia...that's not a rich country.

Yes you did say that and I also narrowed it to East Asia but you were saying Asians (meaning the continent, bro) were more prideful than racist and I don't buy that.  

You also don't get the American view.  We're not spouting off about the "chinks."  We're spouting off about the CCP and its disturbing rise to power and currency manipulation.


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## PDQ (Feb 22, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Bullshit. You guys give an enormous shit about race, even to the point where you actively discriminate against your own fellow asians for things so small as regional origins.



Regional origin isn't the same as race.


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## Kirito (Feb 22, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> No, that's Japan, Korea, and the Southeastern asian region too. Also, if white or especially blacks started migrating to those places the populace there would freak the hell out.



have you been to southeast asia? no? then dont talk about what you dont know. southeast asia depends much on trade we have foreigners walking everywhere.



Mael said:


> Lol Mongolia...that's not a rich country.
> 
> Yes you did say that and I also narrowed it to East Asia but you were saying Asians (meaning the continent, bro) were more prideful than racist and I don't buy that.
> 
> You also don't get the American view.  We're not spouting off about the "chinks."  We're spouting off about the CCP and its disturbing rise to power and currency manipulation.



mongolia is rich bro. go there with a mining company and more often than not youd strike gold, copper, maybe platinum if ur lucky.

but it's true tho. asians are more prideful than being racist. you see it all the time even in your own home country. asians usually just keep to themselves unless theyre pricks.we dont do racism much. well if you go to the middle east thats where the racism is. dont wanna go there again.

what's ccp? chinese communist party?


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## Seto Kaiba (Feb 22, 2013)

PDQ said:


> Regional origin isn't the same as race.



No kidding, that was kinda my point.


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## Mael (Feb 22, 2013)

Kirito said:


> but it's true tho. asians are more prideful than being racist. you see it all the time even in your own home country. asians usually just keep to themselves unless theyre pricks.we dont do racism much. well if you go to the middle east thats where the racism is. dont wanna go there again.
> 
> what's ccp? chinese communist party?



But in that pride sows the seeds for racism.  And oh yes the ME is very racist too that went without saying, and they have a religion to exacerbate it.

Yes CCP is Chinese Communist Party.


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## Seto Kaiba (Feb 22, 2013)

Kirito said:


> have you been to southeast asia? no? then dont talk about what you dont know. southeast asia depends much on trade we have foreigners walking everywhere.



This is moronic. You just tried to talk about our countries, and how we conduct ourselves. I'm telling you, because history shows, that your neck of the woods have a huge issue with racism in ways that in this day and age would seem a bit odd to a westerner. It is understandable I suppose, as the countries in that region for a very long time has remained largely homogenous in their resident ethnicity or ethnicities.


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## Kirito (Feb 22, 2013)

Mael said:


> But in that pride sows the seeds for racism.  And oh yes the ME is very racist too that went without saying, and they have a religion to exacerbate it.
> 
> Yes CCP is Chinese Communist Party.



good thing is that the pride is stronger than the racism, which i was trying to say. but i stand by the fact that the racism here in SE asia at least isnt strong enough to be an issue.

everyone hates china to a certain level. we understand. its being a big bully right now soooo..



Seto Kaiba said:


> This is moronic. You just tried to talk about our countries, and how we conduct ourselves. I'm telling you, because history shows, that your neck of the woods have a huge issue with racism in ways *that in this day and age would seem a bit odd to a westerner.* It is understandable I suppose, as the countries in that region for a very long time has remained largely homogenous in their resident ethnicity or ethnicities.



@bold: derp. you did the same thing you said i did.

anyway, i didn't _try_ to talk about your countries and how you conduct yourselves, its the truth. we get cnn and reuters too and we know you paint china (at least) in an ugly picture more often than not. and since in the west china = asians, the conclusion that you arrive at means that whatever the hell china must be doing has to apply to everyone in asia. im here to defend against that, as SE asian people are one of the most sociable people in the world. no drunks on the street at night, no racism, most welcoming, cheap ass rates everywhere.. you'd be surprised how many old ass whites and blacks come to our shores just to retire.

tl;dr china isn't asia's representative. please don't equate the rest of us with them. i give them their props but like the differences between canadians and americans, there's a difference between japanese, chinese, koreans, and indonesians too.


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## C-Moon (Feb 22, 2013)

Japan has a long history of attempting to sweep their more heinous acts under the rug, even to the point of .


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## Revolution (Feb 22, 2013)

lol @ the fact that half this thread is blocked 

It shows a stark contrast between a country (the USA) that has a fetish for self-depreciating and self-hating its own land, followed by a country (Japan) that only perfection and triumph can describe its country and population.


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## Mael (Feb 22, 2013)

Bird of Paradise said:


> lol @ the fact that half this thread is blocked
> 
> It shows a stark contrast between a country (the USA) that has a fetish for self-depreciating and self-hating its own land, followed by a country (Japan) that only perfection and triumph can describe its country and population.



Well that's on you with the blocking since you seem to be very close to the latter's attitude.


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## Kirito (Feb 22, 2013)

Bird of Paradise said:


> lol @ the fact that half this thread is blocked
> 
> It shows a stark contrast between a country (the USA) that has a fetish for self-depreciating and self-hating its own land, followed by a country (Japan) that only perfection and triumph can describe its country and population.



see guys, i told you. prideful.


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## Seto Kaiba (Feb 22, 2013)

Kirito said:


> good thing is that the pride is stronger than the racism, which i was trying to say. but i stand by the fact that the racism here in SE asia at least isnt strong enough to be an issue.



No, it's that your society is more homogenous than those of the west, and you haven't had to deal with it on that level. That doesn't mean it's not an issue, it's that the society hasn't been challenged as strongly on it.



> @bold: derp. you did the same thing you said i did.



No duh. Just as you don't need to touch fire to know it burns, you don't have to experience the discrimination firsthand to see it for what it is. 



> anyway, i didn't _try_ to talk about your countries and how you conduct yourselves, its the truth. we get cnn and reuters too and we know you paint china (at least) in an ugly picture more often than not. and since in the west china = asians, the conclusion that you arrive at means that whatever the hell china must be doing has to apply to everyone in asia.



Chinese culture is the stereotype of far eastern culture here this is true, but you're debating people right now whom are aware that this is not the truth. I'm talking about this in consideration of the many countries that exist in that region.



> im here to defend against that, as SE asian people are one of the most sociable people in the world. no drunks on the street at night, no racism, most welcoming, cheap ass rates everywhere.. you'd be surprised how many old ass whites and blacks come to our shores just to retire.



That's good, but that doesn't take away from the issues of race in that part of the world.



> tl;dr china isn't asia's representative. please don't equate the rest of us with them. i give them their props but like the differences between canadians and americans, there's a difference between japanese, chinese, koreans, and indonesians too.



I think most of us are aware of that, and we make comments in consideration to that.


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## Mael (Feb 22, 2013)

Kirito said:


> see guys, i told you. prideful.



I really wouldn't take Sarahmint's word for it, dude, if you want intellectual credibility.

You do realize pride can easily be translated into racism when said pride affects how they treat others?  Please?


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## Raiden (Feb 22, 2013)

This happens in America as well.

The things children actually learn about society as they grow older are never touched upon for political reasons. Their parents teach them quite a bunch of prejudiced things ("Don't ever bring a  ____ person into my house") and schools can't quite correct that line of thinking. Because there is always controversy. I'm not surprised that this teacher ran into a wall. But kudos to him for being vocal about this real topic.


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## Seto Kaiba (Feb 22, 2013)

Oh god, I hate weaboo Japanese apologists. Calling this guy a "gaijin" as if they're a Japanese native...


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## Mael (Feb 22, 2013)

Raiden said:


> This happens in America as well.
> 
> The things children actually learn about society as they grow older are never touched upon for political reasons. Their parents teach them quite a bunch of prejudiced things ("Don't ever bring a  ____ person into my house") and schools can't quite correct that line of thinking. Because there is always controversy. I'm not surprised that this teacher ran into a wall. But kudos to him for being vocal about this real topic.



Well duh it happens in America.  It happens everywhere.

The difference is if people make it an issue to confront or evolve from.


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## DeDeMouse (Feb 22, 2013)

Kirito is right. I do ever live in U.S and i knew exactly the difference of racism in America and Asia. Asians mostly discriminate people based on their social status and nationality. In America, people can died or bullied just because of their ethnicity. History of racism in western country is way more rampant.


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## Seto Kaiba (Feb 22, 2013)

racism in America is the same as it is everywhere else. The definition of it doesn't change. They discriminate on ethnicity, social standing, regional differences, among other factors just as every other society has or does.


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## Mael (Feb 22, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> Kirito is right. I do ever live in U.S and i knew exactly the difference of racism in America and Asia. Asians mostly discriminate people based on their social status and nationality. In America, people can died or bullied just because of their ethnicity. History of racism in western country is way more rampant.



Lolno try again:


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## wibisana (Feb 22, 2013)

98% (more) japanese marry other japanese. 

is this racist? or xenophobic... you judge yourself


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## Mael (Feb 22, 2013)

wibisana said:


> 98% (more) japanese marry other japanese.
> 
> is this racist? or xenophobic... you judge yourself



Not the smartest inquiry, dude, considering the demographics.

You don't have to go out of your way and intermarry to prove some lack of racism.

Ugh.


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## Hatifnatten (Feb 22, 2013)

Where's that proud asian troll when you need him.


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## Hatifnatten (Feb 22, 2013)

Also, is Kishi okay?


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## DeDeMouse (Feb 22, 2013)

Mael said:


> Lolno try again:



 Haha.. i can give you a *TONS *list of racism events in western nations too. you want?


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## Seto Kaiba (Feb 22, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> Haha.. i can give you a *TONS *list of racism events in western nations too. Btw you want?



Unlike you, we aren't denying them so I don't see the point.


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## Mael (Feb 22, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> Haha.. i can give you a *TONS *list of racism events in western nations too. Btw you want?



You're an idiot.

Nobody here is trying to disprove racism in the West.  We're settling the difference that we're not always sweeping it under the rug like East Asians are.  So really, shut your fucking gob unless you can come up with a better difference.


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## Mider T (Feb 22, 2013)

Mael said:


> ^I'll debate that.  There's a pretty antagonistic view toward anyone of darker skin color in East Asian countries not to mention the glaring Han supremacist views in most of China.  I've definitely heard and seen enough racist remarks toward *Filipinos, Thai, Viet,* etc., all because they're darker...and that's not even going into the feelings on South-Central Asians and blacks.



To be fair, there's a reason why Japanese people make racist remarks towards them and it doesn't really have to do with skin color.


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## Mael (Feb 22, 2013)

Mider T said:


> To be fair, there's a reason why Japanese people make racist remarks towards them and it doesn't really have to do with skin color.



Obviously there is more to it, but aesthetics do make up a large portion of that racism.

World War 2 brought this all out in the open.


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## Mider T (Feb 22, 2013)

Wait what?  Imperial Japan wasn't Nazi Germany, race wasn't the primary motivation.  Nationalism drove them to conquer everyone, they aren't racist against SE Asians because they're brown but because (back then) they weren't Japanese and (today) a myriad of reasons.


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## DeDeMouse (Feb 22, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Unlike you, we aren't denying them so I don't see the point.



Where do i stated i denying racism in Asia? my point is racism in Asia nations is not comparable in western nations. Because people here assume Asians are the most racist people on earth when in actual it is not. History speaks truth.



Mael said:


> You're an idiot.
> 
> Nobody here is trying to disprove racism in the West.  We're settling the difference that we're not always sweeping it under the rug like East Asians are.  So really, shut your fucking gob unless you can come up with a better difference.



ah this proves who's more educated. Thanks for replying tho.


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## Seto Kaiba (Feb 22, 2013)

But like many societies of the time, they did idealize lighter skin color, but that was more rooted in a matter of social standing like in China.


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## Mael (Feb 22, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> ah this proves who's more educated. Thanks for replying tho.



Yeah, it's me who is.

You're just trying to do the dick-waving again which is going to blow up in your face.  So what if the West did these things?  We fucking admit them.  You can't admit to shit because God forbid you do your backyard research.


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## Seto Kaiba (Feb 22, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> Where do i stated i denying racism in Asia? my point is racism in Asia nations is not comparable in western nations. Because people here assume Asians are the most racist people on earth when in actual it is not. History speaks truth.



This is you denying it right now. History does speak the truth and Asia has a long history of racial discrimination. It is entirely comparable, and in many cases, exceeding that of racism in the west.


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## DeDeMouse (Feb 22, 2013)

Mider T said:


> Wait what?  Imperial Japan wasn't Nazi Germany, race wasn't the primary motivation.  Nationalism drove them to conquer everyone, they aren't racist against SE Asians because they're brown but because (back then) they weren't Japanese and (today) a myriad of reasons.



Indeed. Also the reason for Japan to expand their territory is because western imperialism. There's many double standard against Japan at that time. If westerner sailed halfway around the globe to roamed over and grabbed continent for free, why Japan can't.



Seto Kaiba said:


> This is you denying it right now. History does speak the truth and Asia has a long history of racial discrimination. It is entirely comparable, and in many cases, exceeding that of racism in the west.



Re-read my previous comment. You misunderstood completely. Give me some fact.


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## Jon Moxley (Feb 22, 2013)

I'm not the type to be smart about anything but DeDeMouse, you sound butthurt. Yeah the West has had some shitty racist members, KKK, Nazis etc. Yet Asia probably has those type of groups as well and you act like Asia all high and mighty above racism. Dude , everyone in the west has their eyes open to racism and that it exists. Why do you gotta sound ignorant and spout nonsense ?


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## Seto Kaiba (Feb 22, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> Indeed. Also the reason for Japan to expand their territory is because western imperialism. There's many double standard against Japan at that time. If westerner sailed halfway around the globe to roamed over and grabbed continent for free, why Japan can't.



No it wasn't, it was out of control nationalism as Mider stated. They believed themselves to be superior to all other Asians, and in turn did atrocious acts upon them, one event of which killed more people than the Holocaust did. They were driven by a fanaticism fueled by the idea of divine right and favoritism under the idea that their emperor was descended from and sent by gods.


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## Mael (Feb 22, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> Indeed. Also the reason for Japan to expand their territory is because western imperialism. There's many double standard against Japan at that time. If westerner sailed halfway around the globe to roamed over and grabbed continent for free, why Japan can't.



What in the fuck are you talking about?

Oh right like race and ethnicity didn't have anything to do with all with their treatment of Koreans, Chinese, Filipinos, Thai, Vietnamese, etc.?

Or maybe how black people and South-Central Asians are still viewed at like common criminals and without a hint of shame?

You are extremely butthurt people are calling you out on Asian racism so you want to reflect it on the West.  But the West can admit it.  You obviously cannot.



> Wait what? Imperial Japan wasn't Nazi Germany, race wasn't the primary motivation. Nationalism drove them to conquer everyone, they aren't racist against SE Asians because they're brown but because (back then) they weren't Japanese and (today) a myriad of reasons.



Um, right so conquering France was based off race?  It was domination of Europe with the Aryan bit as just one platform, historical hurt the other.  Nationalism was undoubtedly the biggest reason.  They called it NATIONAL-SOCIALIST for a reason.


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## Mathias124 (Feb 22, 2013)

Kirito said:


> *btw that stuff up there only applies to the rich asian countries like china, japan, mongolia, korea.*
> 
> i said that didn't I? i don't see singaporeans masking their black market history, or the malaysians denying their lease on sabah from the philippines.
> 
> american view on china being generalized to all others.



Is this guy serious?

Calling mongolia rich but claiming SINGAPORE to be among the poor asian nations?
Has this man not heard of the four asian tigers (or whatever?).

Nobody should listen to ANYTHING this guy says, his view of the world is obviously distorted / unenlightened


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## DeDeMouse (Feb 22, 2013)

Tom Brady said:


> I'm not the type to be smart about anything but DeDeMouse, you sound butthurt. Yeah the West has had some shitty racist members, KKK, Nazis etc. Yet Asia probably has those type of groups as well and you act like Asia all high and mighty above racism. Dude , everyone in the west has their eyes open to racism and that it exists. Why do you gotta sound ignorant and spout nonsense ?


I only butthurt to people saying Asians are the most racist people on earth. I do admit racism happen everywhere. But Asians are not "the most racist" because that's only an opinion not a fact.



Seto Kaiba said:


> No it wasn't, it was out of control nationalism as Mider stated. They believed themselves to be superior to all other Asians, and in turn did atrocious acts upon them, one event of which killed more people than the Holocaust did.



Do you know about the GOODS that Japan did to Asia ?

1) In the 1919 Paris Peace Conference, Japan proposed the Clause of Racial Equality;
2) As early as 1930s, the Taiwanese, as Japanese colonial subjects, had been granted with full Japanese citizenship ( NO white colonial masters had done that), they were even given the right to vote in Japanese general elections;
3) Japan invested a lot of money to help her colonies. The Koreans & Taiwanese achieved the highest rates of literacy.


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## Jon Moxley (Feb 22, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> I only butthurt to people saying Asians are the most racist people on earth. I do admit racism happen everywhere. But Asians are not "the most racist" because that's only an opinion not a fact.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Maybe not the most but certainly do seem to act like they aren't racist. All these guys are saying is that the issue needs to be confronted instead of shutting someone up for bringing it up.


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## Seto Kaiba (Feb 22, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> I only butthurt to people saying Asians are the most racist people on earth. I do admit racism happen everywhere. But Asians are not "the most racist" because that's only an opinion not a fact.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Then in WWII they slaughtered them.


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## Mael (Feb 22, 2013)

We're arguing that Asia has a severe history and current sentiment of racism they're not admitting to...not that they're THE MOST racist.



Seto Kaiba said:


> Then in WWII they slaughtered them.



Checkmate.


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## Hand Banana (Feb 22, 2013)

Mathias124 said:


> Is this guy serious?
> 
> Calling mongolia rich but claiming SINGAPORE to be among the poor asian nations?
> Has this man not heard of the four asian tigers (or whatever?).
> ...



I never heard of the Four Asian Tigers. Time to educate myself.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Four Asian Tigers

The Four Asian Tigers or Asian Dragons is a term used in reference to the highly developed economies of Hong Kong, South Korea, Singapore and Taiwan. These nations and areas were notable for maintaining exceptionally high growth rates (in excess of 7 percent a year) and rapid industrialisation between the early 1960s and 1990s. By the 21st century, all four have developed into advanced and high-income economies, specializing in areas of competitive advantage. For example, Hong Kong and Singapore have become world-leading international financial centres, whereas South Korea and Taiwan are world leaders in manufacturing information technology. Their economic success stories have served as role models for many developing countries,[1][2][3] especially the Tiger Cub Economies.

Despite a World Bank report crediting neoliberal policies with the responsibility of the boom, including maintenance of export-led trade regimes, various institutionalist analysts criticized the institution for overlooking a range of other state supported policies that facilitated growth, which reject the tenets of neoliberalism.[4] The tigers experienced decades of supercharged growth based largely on state industrial policies supporting exports to rich, industrialized nations.[citation needed] Even the World Bank report acknowledged benefits from policies of the repression of the financial sector, such as state-imposed below-market interest rates for loans to specific exporting industries. As a result these economies enjoyed extremely high growth rates sustained over decades. Other important aspects include major government investments in education, non-democratic and relatively authoritarian political systems during the early years of development, high levels of U.S. bond holdings, and high public and private savings rates.[5]

A period of liberalization did occur and the first major setback experienced by the tiger economies was the 1997 Asian financial crisis. While Singapore and Taiwan were relatively unscathed, South Korea underwent a major stock market crash brought on by high levels of non-performing corporate loans, while Hong Kong came under intense speculative attacks against its stock market and currency necessitating unprecedented market interventions by the state Hong Kong Monetary Authority. As a result and in the years after the crisis, all four economies rebounded strongly. South Korea, the worst-hit of the tigers, has managed to triple its per capita GDP in dollar terms since 1997.


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## DeDeMouse (Feb 22, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Then in WWII they slaughtered them.



They slaughtered the one who oppose them. Westerner do the same too. Even more horrible.


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## makeoutparadise (Feb 22, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Bullshit. You guys give an enormous shit about race, even to the point where you actively discriminate against your own fellow asians for things so small as regional origins.



its sad and true
*You don't get to see, do or join things unless you're Asian and even the right kind of Asian.*
Being Asian myself and living close with the Asian community you see it all the time.

*Example:* Why is it that Many authentic Chinese restaurants Have *TWO MENUS 
*
One for the ignorant American filled with crappy food that tastes the same.

and the other one for the Asians filled with Awesome food that is diverse with flavor and choice.

Why is it that I need to speak an Asian Language right off the bat before the waiting staff stops treating me like shit and hands me Chopsticks and free food?

My Dad seen it when he was learning martial arts, His teacher would have a white class and an Asian class

In the White Class the Americans Learn some stupid slow pussy footing hippy crap with whale music playing in the back ground.

While in the Asian Class right after people  would suit up in wrestling gear and beat the shit out of each other learning the real stuff.


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## Gino (Feb 22, 2013)

makeoutparadise said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Damn Bro........


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## Hand Banana (Feb 22, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> They slaughtered the one who oppose them. Westerner do the same too. Even more horrible.



Um... no. We do not have a history of our military forces slicing up babies, and using women as pleasure women during war. Experimenting on live POWs. We just drone children and waterboard folks.


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## Mathias124 (Feb 22, 2013)

^ Above poster who talked about two menus, my best friend is Vietnamnese and i've noticed a few events like that as well.

We both needed an extra 5kr for a milkshake, he says goodbye in vietnamnese and gets his cheaper, i couldn't get a discount.
A Tailor who refused to make a suit for non southeast asians.
Food generally cheaper.
Snack portions generally hold an extra 1-2 pieces in Southeast Asian restaurents.


----------



## Mael (Feb 22, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> They slaughtered the one who oppose them. Westerner do the same too. Even more horrible.



When and what?



makeoutparadise said:


> its sad and true
> *You don't get to see, do or join things unless you're Asian and even the right kind of Asian.*
> Being Asian myself and living close with the Asian community you see it all the time.
> 
> ...



I believe makeout just told you to shut your fucking trap, DeDe.


----------



## Jon Moxley (Feb 22, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> They slaughtered the one who oppose them. Westerner do the same too. Even more horrible.



Here we go being defensive cause you're being proven that Asians can be as racist as western or as makeout provided more so.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Feb 22, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> They slaughtered the one who oppose them. Westerner do the same too. Even more horrible.



No, they slaughtered everyone; women, children, and citizens. The Nanking Massacre killed more people than the Holocaust. The Japanese conquest of Asia and the Pacific was as violent and fanatic as the German conquest of Europe.


----------



## makeoutparadise (Feb 22, 2013)

Gino said:


> Damn Bro........



True Fax 

I've even experienced myself  there are Asian people that won't look at you even if you're part Asian.

They give off this additude
"Oh you're only half Asian? Mudblood! you nothing about our culture!!"


----------



## ♠God♠ (Feb 22, 2013)

if everyone stopped talking about racism, racism would go away eventually.


----------



## Mael (Feb 22, 2013)

^Silly naive idealism. 

*pats on head*



makeoutparadise said:


> True Fax
> 
> I've even experienced myself  there are Asian people that won't look at you even if you're part Asian.
> 
> ...



Ah thank you.  You brought up biracial people who get a LOT of shit in Asia compared to that of the US.


----------



## C-Moon (Feb 22, 2013)

Merciful Rose said:


> if everyone stopped talking about racism, racism would go away eventually.



So...let's sweep it under the rug then? Let me think about that for a se-hell no. That's nothing more than putting one's head in the sand.


----------



## Gino (Feb 22, 2013)

makeoutparadise said:


> True Fax
> 
> I've even experienced myself  there are Asian people that won't look at you even if you're part Asian.
> 
> ...


Well Kirito and DeDe nothing else needs to be said.


Merciful Rose said:


> if everyone stopped talking about racism, racism would go away eventually.


HAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## makeoutparadise (Feb 22, 2013)

Merciful Rose said:


> if everyone stopped talking about racism, racism would go away eventually.



Oooor It could go being ignored and not resolved 


The civil rights act was not passed without people talking about the issues of racism


----------



## Jon Moxley (Feb 22, 2013)

Merciful Rose said:


> if everyone stopped talking about racism, racism would go away eventually.



and if the roads were made of chocolate and the sky would rain hamburgers world hunger would end


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 22, 2013)

I don't know if it was appropriate for a foreign teacher to discuss and critics Japanese society with Japanese kids, even if these critics are justified.


----------



## makeoutparadise (Feb 22, 2013)

Mael said:


> ^Silly naive idealism.
> *pats on head*
> Ah thank you.  You brought up biracial people who get a LOT of shit in Asia compared to that of the US.



*Case and point right here*
*Spoiler*: __ 








*Link (A user I respected)is calling me weebo; A non-asian who obsesses over Asian culture
When I'm half Chinese. COME ON*


----------



## Jon Moxley (Feb 22, 2013)

Poor Makeout 

You a cool biracial bro .......bro


----------



## Mael (Feb 22, 2013)

Link God damn it.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 22, 2013)

A homogenous society being backwards about racism? I never would have guessed. Of course Japan is also nationalistic as well, its a bad combination.

Its the side effect of 1) having a history the old people don't acknowledge or stamp down 2) not being near other people of different races to actually experience other cultural attitudes


----------



## Gino (Feb 22, 2013)

makeoutparadise said:


> *Case and point right here*
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...



I'm more surprised you respected the guy.


----------



## makeoutparadise (Feb 22, 2013)

Gino said:


> I'm more surprised you respected the guy.



He did nothing to offend me before...


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 22, 2013)

makeoutparadise said:


> He did nothing to offend me before...



Did you say something positive about China to get negged ????

Edit: Oh, you said that 



> Example: Why is it that Many authentic Chinese restaurants Have TWO MENUS
> 
> One for *the ignorant American* filled with crappy food that tastes the same.



This is why you were seen as a weeboo.


----------



## DeDeMouse (Feb 22, 2013)

Daz Amazing said:


> Um... no. We do not have a history of our military forces slicing up babies, and using women as pleasure women during war. Experimenting on live POWs. We just drone children and waterboard folks.





Seto Kaiba said:


> No, they slaughtered everyone; women, children, and citizens. The Nanking Massacre killed more people than the Holocaust. The Japanese conquest of Asia and the Pacific was as violent and fanatic as the German conquest of Europe.



Oh so British, France, Spaniard don't kill people when they grabbed continent? oh how kind they are. How 13 colonies became this big anyway?
The casualties from Indian & Indonesian independence movement throughout centuries exceeding number of victims during WW2.

If Japan never shooed Westerner in Asia during WW2, South east Asia would end up like Australia and America. Where the natives have no spaces to live their lives and eventually extinct.


----------



## Mael (Feb 22, 2013)

> Where the natives have no spaces to live their lives and eventually extinct.



But they're not extinct.

Extreme butthurt is extreme.  You lose, DeDe.


----------



## Mathias124 (Feb 22, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> Oh so British, France, Spaniard don't kill people when they grabbed continent? oh how kind they are. How 13 colonies became this big anyway?
> The casualties from Indian & Indonesian independence movement throughout centuries exceeding number of victims during WW2.
> 
> If Japan never shooed Westerner in Asia during WW2, South east Asia would end up like Australia and America. Where the natives have no spaces to live their lives and eventually extinct.



Killing soldiers in war wasn't what he was talking about.


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 22, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> If Japan never shooed Westerner in Asia during WW2, South east Asia would end up like Australia and America. Where the natives have no spaces to live their lives and eventually extinct.



I disagree on this. There were not really a settler colonialism in East Asia. Even a region like Algeria with a long period of settler colonialism didn't see it population extincted. Same for Hong Kong.


----------



## makeoutparadise (Feb 22, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> Did you say something positive about China to get negged ????
> 
> Edit: Oh, you said that
> 
> ...



Ah that was meant to emphasize the stupid way of thinking 
Some Asians have twoards non-Asians 

If I did offend anyone I'm sorry


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Feb 22, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> Oh so British, France, Spaniard don't kill people when they grabbed continent? oh how kind they are. How 13 colonies became this big anyway?
> The casualties from Indian & Indonesian independence movement throughout centuries exceeding number of victims during WW2.
> 
> If Japan never shooed Westerner in Asia during WW2, South east Asia would end up like Australia and America. Where the natives have no spaces to live their lives and eventually extinct.



The natives of Japan, the Ainu are already in that situation. You reveal your ignorance. Not to mention that Native Australians and Americans still exist.


----------



## ExoSkel (Feb 22, 2013)

He's a taiwanese. I should've guessed much.


----------



## the_notorious_Z.É. (Feb 22, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> Oh so British, France, Spaniard don't kill people when they grabbed continent? oh how kind they are. How 13 colonies became this big anyway?
> The casualties from Indian & Indonesian independence movement throughout centuries exceeding number of victims during WW2.
> 
> If Japan never shooed Westerner in Asia during WW2, South east Asia would end up like Australia and America. Where the natives have no spaces to live their lives and eventually extinct.



Are you really comparing what Europeans did in the 16th-19th centuries with what Japan did in the middle of the 20th century?

So Japan saved Asia from being conquered by Westerns during WW2? and all this time i thought Westerns were fighting each other in Europe at the time.


----------



## Brotha Yasuji (Feb 22, 2013)

Kirito said:


> not racist. prideful. most asians dont give a shit about race. asians are just fiercely nationalistic, and as seen with japan, are willing to forget the dirty part of their history as we asians are so deeply rooted and entrenched in our culture. btw that stuff up there only applies to the rich asian countries like china, japan, mongolia, korea. other asian countries are more accepting of the dirty parts of our history, but racist? no we're not.
> 
> unlike you guys we don't call each other out on the sizes of our eyes or skin color.
> 
> my source: im asian and i live in asia



Out of curiosity, how do you explain the outright discrimination of foreigners like Brazilians, Chinese and Africans in Japan? Or how they still treat people like the Burakumin?

You can't simply pass that off as nationalism.


----------



## Mael (Feb 22, 2013)

DeDe your argument is not only apologist for Japan but fucking retarded.

Seriously you're a disgrace of a human being.


----------



## αce (Feb 22, 2013)

Okay 2 of my best friends are Korean. 1 is Chinese. And the other 2 are Vietnamese. My ex is also Vietnamese. Do you know how badly I had it with their families because of my race? I'll call bullshit on anyone here that thinks asians don't care about race.

If I didn't grow up with these people and be interested in the same things they'd be thinking of me like they do every other black person they see.


----------



## hammer (Feb 22, 2013)

certain people in this thread are giving me cancer.


----------



## Kirito (Feb 22, 2013)

Brotha Yasuji said:


> Out of curiosity, how do you explain the outright discrimination of foreigners like Brazilians, Chinese and Africans in Japan? Or how they still treat people like the Burakumin?
> 
> You can't simply pass that off as nationalism.



really? maybe in isolated cases, because i've been to japan too and i've never been discriminated or anything. the only place i've ever been discriminated at was good ol boston and the middle east. elsewhere no.

look mathias, i screwed up. everyone knows singapore is rich. no need to neg me.

and to all of you using examples from ur dear old america i'm not talking about the asians there. usually the asians there treat the immigrants like shit for not being born in the US. fuck when i went there for summer they called me a fob. i'm talking about those in southeast asia, that racism isn't as bad as you all make it out to be. sure there are some cases (lol just google) but it's not really common. in fact westerners here are treated like gods.

tldr once again don't generalize all asians. we're all different just how danish are different from the swedes.

edit: there's also a difference between asians born in the west and asians born and raised in their home soil. very, very big diff.


----------



## makeoutparadise (Feb 22, 2013)

Brotha Yasuji said:


> You can't simply pass that off as nationalism.



Actually you can considering nationalism fosters racism and anti-foreign sentiment.

For example an important part of being a Irish nationalist is not being English


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 22, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> They slaughtered the one who oppose them. Westerner do the same too. Even more horrible.


...so you don't know anything about the Rape of Nanking? All the Japanese War Crimes in their own territories? Comfort Women?


----------



## ExoSkel (Feb 22, 2013)

No, his explanation is that since Western imperialism was so rampant during 17th-18th century, it's ok for japan to go murder all those fellow asians just because they were protecting themselves from the westerners.


----------



## Mael (Feb 22, 2013)

ExoSkel said:


> No, his explanation is that since Western imperialism was so rampant during 17th-18th century, it's ok for japan to go murder all those fellow asians just because they were protecting themselves from the westerners.



And he's Taiwanese too...which fucking blows my mind.

Then again he did say America started the war in the Pacific, NOT Pearl Harbor, because oil embargoes are seriously horrific attacks.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 22, 2013)

ExoSkel said:


> No, his explanation is that since Western imperialism was so rampant during 17th-18th century, it's ok for japan to go murder all those fellow asians just because they were protecting themselves from the westerners.


That's so sickeningly stupid, I have to wonder who the hell brainwashed DeDeMouse.


----------



## Mathias124 (Feb 22, 2013)

Kirito said:


> really? maybe in isolated cases, because i've been to japan too and i've never been discriminated or anything. the only place i've ever been discriminated at was good ol boston and the middle east. elsewhere no.
> 
> look mathias, i screwed up. everyone knows singapore is rich. no need to neg me.
> 
> ...



I dont generalize all asians just the southeast / china/ japan / korea area i know about.
I sure as hell know that pretty much all SE asians are nationalist, and everybody with half a brain knows that a die hard nationalist will also be a racist.

You didnt know that Singapore is rich and mongolia isnt.
Your view on asian countries and their cultures is at best ignorant.
The fact that you tried to defend that stance with BS about mining just goes to show that your opinion on matters in Asia is *worthless*.

Nationalism is the same as Racism in my book, seeing as 99% of all nationalists are racists as well.


----------



## ExoSkel (Feb 22, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> That's so sickeningly stupid, I have to wonder who the hell brainwashed DeDeMouse.


Considering the fact that he's from taiwan, the fanboy nation of japan, I wouldn't be really surprised if he was really taught this way. I mean, this is a country where they would still honor the nation of japan even after japan murdered 80% of their population.

Damn, why can't Germany get their own fanboy nation?


----------



## DeDeMouse (Feb 22, 2013)

Mathias124 said:


> Killing soldiers in war wasn't what he was talking about.



Not just soldiers but the inhabitant too. Like the natives who killed by those redneck cowboys.



Le M?le Dominant said:


> I disagree on this. There were not really a settler colonialism in East Asia. Even a region like Algeria with a long period of settler colonialism didn't see it population extincted. Same for Hong Kong.



Hong Kong is exception because of geographical advantage and number of population.



Seto Kaiba said:


> The natives of Japan, the Ainu are already in that situation. You reveal your ignorance. Not to mention that Native Australians and Americans still exist.


Those only Ainu who remain in closed village. in actual, Japan today are a mixed of Jomon(Proto Ainu), Yayoi Korean & Han Chinese in culture, religion & ethnicity. This proves Japanese appreciating the natives since the first day they immigrate to that land. While in west? they don't assimilate. But instead they maintain their "purity". Because they think themselves they're above human being.


----------



## Kirito (Feb 22, 2013)

Mathias124 said:


> *I dont generalize all asians*, but i sure as hell know that pretty much all asians are nationalist, and everybody with half a brain knows that a die hard nationalist will also be a racist.
> 
> You didnt know that Singapore is rich and mongolia isnt.
> Your view on asian countries and their cultures is at best ignorant.
> ...



you don't generalize asians but you know all asians are nationalist. okay. 

i know singapore is rich, i was talking about southeast asia where westerner is god. mongolia is rich, just because their stock market trading isn't in the news doesn't mean they're not rich. they have mines over there bro, see for yourself, no BS. i guess if it weren't for the US attacking iraq you wouldn't know they had oil too.

and in my book ur a troll who don't know what ur talking about. im here defending my own against generalization and here u are spouting shit.


----------



## makeoutparadise (Feb 22, 2013)

ExoSkel said:


> No, his explanation is that since Western imperialism was so rampant during 17th-18th century, it's ok for japan to go murder all those fellow asians just because they were protecting themselves from the westerners.



Its true that Japan was once seen as a sign of hope for other other asian nations 

But that changed when Japan made the choice of joining the western imperialist 
By invading Korea, and Manchuria.


----------



## ExoSkel (Feb 22, 2013)

makeoutparadise said:


> Its true that Japan was once seen as a *sign of hope for other other asian nations *


100% False. By that time, both Qing Dynasty and Korean peninsula didn't trust japan as they've had their own antagonism for centuries. These both nations didn't care what japan was going through or adapting western culture was beneficial. They were stuck in their own traditional way and was happy until japan decided to go fuck these two nations.


----------



## Mael (Feb 22, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> Not just soldiers but the inhabitant too. Like the natives who killed by those redneck cowboys.
> 
> Hong Kong is exception because of geographical advantage and number of population.
> 
> Those only Ainu who remain in closed village. in actual, Japan today are a mixed of Jomon(Proto Ainu), Yayoi Korean & Han Chinese in culture, religion & ethnicity. This proves Japanese appreciating the natives since the first day they immigrate to that land. While in west? they don't assimilate. But instead they maintain their "purity". Because they think themselves they're above human being.



This is hilarious.  He's defending people as non-prejudicial BY being prejudicial himself.

You're a farce, a joke, a fucking parody of what reason should be.


----------



## Mael (Feb 22, 2013)

ExoSkel said:


> 100% False. By that time, both Qing Dynasty and Korean peninsula didn't trust japan as they've had their own antagonism for centuries. These both nations didn't care what japan was going through.



Exactly...Imjin War e.g.

Korea never looked to Japan nor China.  Why the fuck do people wonder why Sejong created Hangul?


----------



## Mathias124 (Feb 22, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> Not just soldiers but the inhabitant too. Like the natives who killed by those redneck cowboys..



So the same thing as the Japenese did in Nanking just not in an organized matter deliberately meant to exterminate the populace.

Nice way to argue against yourself. Land grab > extermination.


----------



## Revolution (Feb 22, 2013)

This is a serious case of culture shock.  This kind of lesson is not only completely normal in the USA, but pushed to the breaking point of belittling the USA.  In Japan, it is so rude and offensive to suggest that everyday people are flawed in some way.

You will NEVER EVER see another country shove itself down a hole like this EVER:
  Only the USA insults itself.  How's that for patriotism?

USA is the EMO of the world.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Feb 22, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> Those only Ainu who remain in closed village. in actual, Japan today are a mixed of Jomon(Proto Ainu), Yayoi Korean & Han Chinese in culture, religion & ethnicity. This proves Japanese appreciating the natives since the first day they immigrate to that land. While in west? they don't assimilate. But instead they maintain their "purity". Because they think themselves they're above human being.



Like I stated, they are in the same situation as Native Americans and Australians. We are also largely mixed of Native American blood. Almost every American can trace part of their lineage back to native Americans; it is profound stupidity to talk of the west maintaining their "purity" and a lack of assimiliation when it is objectively known of the large homogenous cultures present in the Asian nations.


----------



## the_notorious_Z.É. (Feb 22, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> While in west? they don't assimilate. But instead they maintain their "purity". Because they think themselves they're above human being.



You clearly know nothing of Western colonialism.


----------



## Kirito (Feb 22, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> No, it's that your society is more homogenous than those of the west, and you haven't had to deal with it on that level. That doesn't mean it's not an issue, it's that the society hasn't been challenged as strongly on it.



because in our society we don't do racism much, so why bring up a minor problem when there's far bigger problems to address?



Seto Kaiba said:


> Chinese culture is the stereotype of far eastern culture here this is true, but you're debating people right now whom are aware that this is not the truth. *I'm talking about this in consideration of the many countries that exist in that region.*



then also take into consideration that most asian countries down south don't do racism like you've ben previously claiming, nor are we trying to hide it. that's just japan and china and korea


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Feb 22, 2013)

Bird of Paradise said:


> This is a serious case of culture shock.  This kind of lesson is not only completely normal in the USA, but pushed to the breaking point of belittling the USA.  In Japan, it is so rude and offensive to suggest that everyday people are flawed in some way.
> 
> You will NEVER EVER see another country shove itself down a hole like this EVER:
> Only the USA insults itself.  How's that for patriotism?



I don't think I've ever seen you post something intelligent here, and this is no exception. It is learning from past mistakes, and learning what from the flaws of pride and nationalism. By constantly being critical of ourselves, we constantly seek a means to improve ourselves. The type of patriotism you idiotically allude to is a road that would lead to stagnation, and possibly, regression.


----------



## αce (Feb 22, 2013)

I don't know why this thread turned into text wars, but basically if you don't think that asian cultures are racially insensitive (especially Korean, in my experience) then you are being willfully ignorant.


----------



## Mael (Feb 22, 2013)

Bird of Paradise said:


> This is a serious case of culture shock.  This kind of lesson is not only completely normal in the USA, but pushed to the breaking point of belittling the USA.  In Japan, it is so rude and offensive to suggest that everyday people are flawed in some way.
> 
> You will NEVER EVER see another country shove itself down a hole like this EVER:
> Only the USA insults itself.  How's that for patriotism?
> ...



Oh my fucking God will you cut it out?



the_notorious_Z.?. said:


> You clearly know nothing of Western colonialism.



Well duh...apparently Western history is a lost subject in Taipei.



Seto Kaiba said:


> I don't think I've ever seen you post something intelligent here, and this is no exception. It is learning from past mistakes, and learning what from the flaws of pride and nationalism. By constantly being critical of ourselves, we constantly seek a means to improve ourselves. The type of patriotism you idiotically allude to is a road that would lead to stagnation, and possibly, regression.



Good sir, you ask the impossible of Sarahmint.


----------



## αce (Feb 22, 2013)

>February 2013.
>Responding to Sarahmint.

wat.


----------



## Kirito (Feb 22, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> By constantly being critical of ourselves, we constantly seek a means to improve ourselves. The type of patriotism you idiotically allude to is a road that would lead to stagnation, and possibly, regression.



this is something quite irrelevant, but i recalled a study where westerners value criticism and personal achievements while asians value camaraderie, compliments, and group achievements.


----------



## makeoutparadise (Feb 22, 2013)

ExoSkel said:


> 100% False. By that time, both Qing Dynasty and Korean peninsula didn't trust japan as they've had their own antagonism for centuries. These both nations didn't care what japan was going through or adapting western culture was beneficial. They were stuck in their own traditional way and was happy until japan decided to go fuck these two nations.



Sorry that's my current college education getting in the way their narrative says

That many Chinese and Koreans saw Japan as a model of modernization
Many wealthy families from the main land sent their kids over to study in Japan 

Sun yet sing, LuXun and Chang kai sheik were said to have studied in Japan for these reason

In order for the self-strengthin efforts to progress 

But then the sino-Japanese war happened and changed that


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Feb 22, 2013)

αce said:


> >February 2013.
> >Responding to Sarahmint.
> 
> wat.



I suppose I should know better by now...


----------



## hammer (Feb 22, 2013)

how can anyone say there is no racisim in asia? only reason I got by the best was because if I shaved my head people thought I was just a darker asian,  its ludicrous to claim otherwise for _any_ country.


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 22, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> Those only Ainu who remain in closed village. in actual, Japan today are a mixed of Jomon(Proto Ainu), Yayoi Korean & Han Chinese in culture, religion & ethnicity. This proves Japanese appreciating the natives since the first day they immigrate to that land. While *in west*? they don't assimilate. But instead they maintain their *"purity"*. Because they think themselves they're above human being.



I can't talk for others western countries but the example of the  during the first  colonization of North America by the French show that they didn't cared about their purity. The single obstacle to mixed marriage was religion. But this barrier of religion was removed when Marriage with non Christians was allowed in these lands.
There are also many example of famous mixed people in the history of France like Alexandre Dumas, the writer of "The three Musketeers".


----------



## Mael (Feb 22, 2013)

αce said:


> >February 2013.
> >Responding to Sarahmint.
> 
> wat.



Oh c'mon it's fun sometimes! 

She never has a fucking clue at all.


----------



## Kirito (Feb 22, 2013)

hammer said:


> how can anyone say there is no racisim in asia? only reason I got by the best was because if I shaved my head people thought I was just a darker asian,  its ludicrous to claim otherwise for _any_ country.



if you're talking to me bro i'm not saying there isn't any, but it's only rampant in the developed countries. first posts were talking about how "all" asians were racist so i posted to counter that as SE asians don't do racism that much. it's a negligible problem as putting food on our table is a bigger one.

i guess it's a first world problem?


----------



## ExoSkel (Feb 22, 2013)

makeoutparadise said:


> Sorry that's my current college education getting in the way their narrative says
> 
> That many Chinese and Koreans saw Japan as a model of modernization
> Many wealthy families from the main land sent their kids over to study in Japan
> ...


I'm guessing your history professor is/was a scrub who barely knew anything about in this critical subject. What was the exact name of your class?

Doesn't make much sense when japan already colonized Korea by the time japan seriously went over modernization, doesn't it?

Both of those people you've mentioned went to study to japan to study the warfare and politics. Why? That was after Japan's successful victory over Russia during Russo-Japanese war. Chinese cities such as Shanghai and Hong Kong was already modernized even before japan considered modernizing during Meiji period.


----------



## Mael (Feb 22, 2013)

Kirito said:


> if you're talking to me bro i'm not saying there isn't any, but it's only rampant in the developed countries. first posts were talking about how "all" asians were racist so i posted to counter that as SE asians don't do racism that much. it's a negligible problem as putting food on our table is a bigger one.
> 
> *i guess it's a first world problem*?



Seriously?


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Feb 22, 2013)

Kirito said:


> if you're talking to me bro i'm not saying there isn't any, but it's only rampant in the developed countries. first posts were talking about how "all" asians were racist so i posted to counter that as SE asians don't do racism that much. it's a negligible problem as putting food on our table is a bigger one.
> 
> i guess it's a first world problem?



India had and still does have, an enormous problem with discrimination based on skin color apart from race even, because it is tied to caste system discrimination. Just as many Asian societies, lighter skin was valued more because it implied higher social standing, as these people live in shade and luxury and can afford cosmetics in contrast to darker-skinned peasants or untouchables that spent much of their day tolling in fields under sunlight.

Even on top of that they still do not treat those from the Asian muslim nations that well, and if you're black well why are you even there...?


----------



## Kirito (Feb 22, 2013)

Mael said:


> Seriously?



it's only an issue in china japan and korea anyway and they're all rich soo......

i know about the zulus in africa but lets not talk about them kay



Seto Kaiba said:


> India had and still does have, an enormous problem with discrimination based on skin color apart from race even, because it is tied to caste system discrimination. Just as many Asian societies, lighter skin was valued more because it implied higher social standing, as these people live in shade and luxury and can afford cosmetics in contrast to darker-skinned peasants or untouchables that spent much of their day tolling in fields under sunlight.



ah india. they're not SE asia tho so i won't be talking about them much but i can tell you this. their trains STINK like hell. don't ride a train in india if you value your nose.


----------



## makeoutparadise (Feb 22, 2013)

ExoSkel said:


> Doesn't make much sense when japan already colonized Korea by the time japan seriously went over modernization, doesn't it?
> 
> Both of those people you've mentioned went to study to japan to study the warfare and politics. Why? That was after Japan's successful victory over Russia during Russo-Japanese war.



They went there in the hopes to learn Japanese tactics like warfare and politics and use it against them
A "fight fire with fire" kind of thinking 
Yes the Chinese and koreans had resentment against the Japanese for their actions and race  but they also saw the potential in modernizing like Japan, it's a shame That everybody else on the mainland  didn't get that.


----------



## ExoSkel (Feb 22, 2013)

makeoutparadise said:


> They went there in the hopes to learn Japanese tactics like warfare and politics and use it against them
> A "fight fire with fire" kind of thinking
> Yes the Chinese and koreans had resentment against the Japanese for their actions and race  *but they also saw the potential in modernizing like Japan*, it's a shame That everybody else on the mainland  didn't get that.


This is where you don't understand, Korea was already being modernized by the time japan annexed Korea. Korea accepted the offer from Russian Empire to cooperate and learn their military tactics and modernizing from their traditional politics and warfare and it was in progress, until Russo-Japanese war started and Vladivostock bombed and booted the Russians out of Korea.

People like Chiang Kai Shek went to japan to study their warfare, it has nothing to do with modernization. This is what he did, go to different countries to study military from different nations and bring their tactics for the Chinese warfare.


----------



## Kirito (Feb 22, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Even on top of that they still do not treat those from the Asian muslim nations that well, and if you're black well why are you even there...?



i guess not much on skin color nowadays in india. but i've been there only once and such a short time so i can't speak for the caste system


----------



## DeDeMouse (Feb 22, 2013)

Mathias124 said:


> So the same thing as the Japenese did in Nanking just not in an organized matter deliberately meant to exterminate the populace.
> 
> Nice way to argue against yourself. Land grab > extermination.



Because unit 731 exist NOT meant to exterminate the populace. But for weapon. So regardless they're Han, Manchus, or even whites they'll get same treatment. While holocaust exist solely meant to exterminate the populace.



Seto Kaiba said:


> Like I stated, they are in the same situation as Native Americans and Australians. We are also largely mixed of Native American blood. Almost every American can trace part of their lineage back to native Americans; it is profound stupidity to talk of the west maintaining their "purity" and a lack of assimiliation when it is objectively known of the large homogenous cultures present in the Asian nations.



Opinion like that often comes only from people who live in a western county. Except the small nations, Asian nations never purely homogeneous. Still, the number of mixed blood in America are too few. Tho that's because of civil rights movement too.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Feb 22, 2013)

Kirito said:


> *not racist*. prideful. most asians dont give a shit about race. asians are just fiercely nationalistic, and as seen with japan, are willing to forget the dirty part of their history as we asians are so deeply rooted and entrenched in our culture. btw that stuff up there only applies to the rich asian countries like china, japan, mongolia, korea. other asian countries are more accepting of the dirty parts of our history, but racist? no we're not.
> 
> *unlike you guys we don't call each other out on the sizes of our eyes or skin color.*
> 
> my source: im asian and i live in asia



Uhm.

I went to Japan as part of a school program where we had host families.

One girl in our group was black, and when the family who was hosting her found out, they rejected her, so the school had to find another family for her last minute. Another girl was Chinese, and her family was so rude and uncaring to her that she went home early.

Sure, we had another Chinese girl, a Mexican kid, and an Indian kid in our group, too, and they all had good experiences, but you are making a gross sweeping statement about an entire continent.

You can argue that nationalism was involved with the Chinese girl, but as for the black girl? Nope. They got nothing. Racism, pure and simple.

The damage control is so strong in you it's kind of disturbing.


----------



## ♠God♠ (Feb 22, 2013)

Gamma Akutabi said:


> So...let's sweep it under the rug then? Let me think about that for a se-hell no. That's nothing more than putting one's head in the sand.



Why not? If we stopped talking about it right now, the next generation will simply not hear about it anymore.


----------



## makeoutparadise (Feb 22, 2013)

> People like Chiang Kai Shek went to japan to study their warfare, it has nothing to do with modernization.


But Japan's method of warfare was _modern_ that's how they become an imperialist power and beat Russia because they had a *modern* Millitary 

The self-strengthing movement demanded that Chiang's country needed to do was:
Modernize industry 
Modernize education 
Modernize goverment
*Modernize Millitary *
But at te same time keep as much of your own culture as possible hence Japan


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 22, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> Because unit 731 exist NOT meant to exterminate the populace. But for weapon. So regardless they're Han, Manchus, or even whites they'll get same treatment. While holocaust exist solely meant to exterminate the populace.


What. The. FUCK?

You're _defending_ Unit 731 and their treatment of POWs and the native populations?!

Oh...and DeDeMouse, have you seen this?




> The December 13, 1937 article in the Tokyo Nichi Nichi Shimbun's Contest to kill 100 people using a sword series. Mukai (left) and Noda (right)


----------



## Mael (Feb 22, 2013)

They're not white and Western, Saiyaman.

Therefore it's ok in defense against the evil West.

Yeah that's not racist itself, DeDe.  Pathetic.



PikaCheeka said:


> Uhm.
> 
> I went to Japan as part of a school program where we had host families.
> 
> ...



You should be addressing this to DeDeMouse, the Taiwanaboo Japanese fanboy.


----------



## Hand Banana (Feb 22, 2013)

Sarahmint is tanking the cafe by herself.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Feb 22, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> Because unit 731 exist NOT meant to exterminate the populace. But for weapon. So regardless they're Han, Manchus, or even whites they'll get same treatment. While holocaust exist solely meant to exterminate the populace.
> 
> 
> 
> Opinion like that often comes only from people who live in a western county. Except the small nations, Asian nations never purely homogeneous. Still, the number of mixed blood in America are too few. Tho that's because of civil rights movement too.



Homogenity is a matter of fact, not opinion.

Almost everyone in America is mixed blood, Japan for example is over 85-90 percent homogenous.


----------



## DeDeMouse (Feb 22, 2013)

makeoutparadise said:


> They went there in the hopes to learn Japanese tactics like warfare and politics and use it against them
> A "fight fire with fire" kind of thinking
> Yes the Chinese and koreans had resentment against the Japanese for their actions and race  but they also saw the potential in modernizing like Japan, it's a shame That everybody else on the mainland  didn't get that.



No. Chinese never have any hatred to Japanese at that time. Chinese hate Qing government than anyone else. Because Qing is heavily corrupt & refuse to modernize. Even after the annexation of Taiwan done by Japan seen by Chinese as something for Chinese government should learn. The real animosity between Japan and Chinese started after Japan annexation of Shanghai.


----------



## Mael (Feb 22, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> No. Chinese never have any hatred to Japanese at that time. Chinese hate Qing government than anyone else. Because Qing is heavily corrupt & refuse to modernize. Even after the annexation of Taiwan by Japanese seen by Chinese as something for Chinese government should learn. The real animosity between Japan and Chinese started after Japan annexation of Shanghai.



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Right and the Boxer Rebellion meant nothing? 

Oh my God you're a bigger Japanophile than the FC Section.


----------



## Kirito (Feb 22, 2013)

PikaCheeka said:


> Uhm.
> 
> I went to Japan as part of a school program where we had host families.
> 
> ...





> btw that stuff up there only applies to the rich asian countries like china, japan, mongolia, korea



it's also kind of disturbing that you didn't read the rest of my post


----------



## makeoutparadise (Feb 22, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> No. Chinese never have any hatred to Japanese at that time. Chinese hate Qing government than anyone else. Because Qing is heavily corrupt & refuse to modernize. Even after the annexation of Taiwan by Japanese seen by Chinese as something for Chinese government should learn. The real animosity between Japan and Chinese started after Japan annexation of Shanghai.



True The Qing Goverment was corrupt and refuse to modernize but I'm talking about the intellectuals in china who were advocating for reform. The ones who would run china after the Qing fall


----------



## Hand Banana (Feb 22, 2013)

Boxer Rebellion. Tough time to be a christian or foreigner. Mael pulling out the big guns.


----------



## Majinsaga (Feb 22, 2013)

Mael said:


> *Um, Asia is one of the most racist *continents out there.  It's just that even when people call them out on it they simply do not a) give a shit or b) feel bad about it.  That sort of callousness is almost enviable.



Russia is the correct answer. Not Russian or white? Be prepared to have your skull bashed by 10 skinheads in plain daylight.


----------



## Mael (Feb 22, 2013)

Majinsaga said:


> Russia is the correct answer. Not Russian or white? Be prepared to have your skull bashed by 10 skinheads in plain daylight.



I did say continent though.


----------



## Revolution (Feb 22, 2013)

αce said:


> >February 2013.
> >Responding to Sarahmint.
> 
> wat.



lol,  Seto and Mael are SuperTrolls


----------



## DeDeMouse (Feb 22, 2013)

makeoutparadise said:


> True The Qing Goverment was corrupt and refuse to modernize but I'm talking about the intellectuals in china who were advocating for reform. The ones who would run china after the Qing fall



Are you implying KMT? KMT supported by Japan at 1911. With weapons and money. Also, Sun Yat Sen have a speech that he seems admired Japan's successful of modernization. It's hard to believe KMT hate Japan at that time since KMT hating westerner imperialism & Qing ALOT.


----------



## Mael (Feb 22, 2013)

Bird of Paradise said:


> lol,  Seto and Mael are SuperTrolls



No, you just can't form anything intelligent and thus react in super sensitivity.  You also have that habit of putting your foot in your mouth.  Care to deny that?


----------



## Hand Banana (Feb 22, 2013)

Majinsaga said:


> Russia is the correct answer. Not Russian or white? Be prepared to have your skull bashed by 10 skinheads in plain daylight.



Mael was right. Russia doesn't have the length like Asia does.


----------



## hammer (Feb 22, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> No. Chinese never have any hatred to Japanese at that time.


----------



## makeoutparadise (Feb 22, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> Are you implying KMT? KMT supported by Japan at 1911. With weapons and money. *Also, Sun Yat Sen have a speech that he seems admired Japan's successful of modernization.* It's hard to believe KMT hate Japan at that time since KMT hating westerner imperialism ALOT.



You're bolded part is what I'm talking about
Again as I said before many Asians on the continent at the time saw the way Japan modernized itself as way to progress at the same hating Japan for annexing land

BTW KMT fought against the Japanese and hated them for their imperialism 
They did not get money from them 

The KMT tried to ally themselves with the CCP as a united front against them


----------



## Hatifnatten (Feb 22, 2013)

Imagine the yank butthurt if a Japanese teacher was talking about murika's history of discrimination.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Feb 22, 2013)

Hatifnatten said:


> Imagine the yank butthurt if a Japanese teacher was talking about murika's history of discrimination.



We already talk about it, all the time. It wouldn't really be an issue.


----------



## Mael (Feb 22, 2013)

Hatifnatten said:


> Imagine the yank butthurt if a Japanese teacher was talking about murika's history of discrimination.



Considering we have the mentions of Trail of Tears, slavery, internment camps, segregation, etc., in our textbooks and that race is widely discussed even amongst kids, I do believe I just shot your stupid notion down.

Good effort, Cossack.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Feb 22, 2013)

Kirito said:


> it's also kind of disturbing that you didn't read the rest of my post



Your post was stupidly contradictory. Read it again. Let's analyze it closely.



> not racist. prideful. *most asians dont give a shit about race*. asians are just fiercely nationalistic, and *as seen with japan*, are willing to forget the dirty part of their history *as we asians *are so deeply rooted and entrenched in our culture.



All of this implies that "most asians dont give a shit about race", and as an excuse, you say they are just nationalistic, giving an example of Japan. This means "Japan isn't racist. It's nationalistic." Then you say "we Asians", as if including Japanese citizens in the same group as yourself.

Next, you say:



> btw that stuff up there only applies to the rich asian countries like china, japan, mongolia, korea. other asian countries are more accepting of the dirty parts of our history, but racist? no we're not.



Here we have a statement contradictory to your earlier claim that Japan isn't racist, but only nationalist.

And. What percentage of the Asian population lives in those four countries again?



> unlike you guys we don't call each other out on the sizes of our eyes or skin color.



Here we have this very stupid, _sweeping_, statement that Asians aren't racist, even though early you said China, Japan, Mongolia, and Korea are.



> my source: im asian and i live in asia



I'm North American and I live in North America.

I don't understand anything about Asia. I am sorry.


----------



## Kirito (Feb 22, 2013)

PikaCheeka said:


> Your post was stupidly contradictory. Read it again. Let's analyze it closely.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i'm not replying seriously if you're going to attack semantics instead of the real argument.

i can't be arsed to type "south east asians" every sentence i make now can i? you're smart, you should get the gist. 

using sarcasm to cover the fact that you basically nitpicked my sentence structure instead of admitting that you misinterpreted my whole post just means ur a proud person who is afraid to admit he/she was wrong. not cool person of the internet.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Feb 22, 2013)

Kirito said:


> i'm not replying seriously if you're going to attack semantics instead of the real argument seto kaiba.
> 
> i can't be arsed to type "south east asians" every sentence i make now can i? you're smart, you should get the gist.



I'm not Seto Kaiba.


----------



## baconbits (Feb 22, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> Kirito is right. I do ever live in U.S and i knew exactly the difference of racism in America and Asia. Asians mostly discriminate people based on their social status and nationality. In America, people can died or bullied just because of their ethnicity. History of racism in western country is way more rampant.



As a black man I can say that this isn't true.  Even Asian immigrants in the US harbor more prejudice than other immigrants do.  I have rarely seen a black character portrayed positively in Japanese media.  And the stories my relatives who were in the Navy tell me about Asia...

There is racism there.  Let's not pretend racism is purely an American problem.


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 22, 2013)

Well, however, I believe it's not appropriate to talk about such subjects when you are a foreigner teacher, especially with kids.
When you are abroad, you must avoids to be seen as "the foreigner that come to give lessons to the locals" (even if it's your role as a teacher lol).


----------



## Mael (Feb 22, 2013)

baconbits said:


> As a black man I can say that this isn't true.  Even Asian immigrants in the US harbor more prejudice than other immigrants do.  I have rarely seen a black character portrayed positively in Japanese media.  And the stories my relatives who were in the Navy tell me about Asia...
> 
> There is racism there.  Let's not pretend racism is purely an American problem.



Take in mind DeDe is a notorious Japanese apologist.

And Killer Bee doesn't count.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Feb 22, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> Well, however, I believe it's not appropriate to talk about such subjects when you are a foreigner teacher, especially with kids.
> When you are abroad, you must avoids to be seen as "the foreigner that come to give lessons to the locals" (even if it's your role as a teacher lol).



That's dumb.


----------



## steveht93 (Feb 22, 2013)

Kirito said:


> mongolia is rich bro. go there with a mining company and more often than not youd strike gold, copper, maybe platinum if ur lucky.
> 
> but it's true tho. asians are more prideful than being racist. you see it all the time even in your own home country. asians usually just keep to themselves unless theyre pricks.we dont do racism much. *well if you go to the middle east thats where the racism is.* dont wanna go there again.
> 
> what's ccp? chinese communist party?



And the title of dipshit today goes to...

If your house is made of glass you shouldn't throw at other people stones. Lol "Asians aren't racist",racism is everywhere.


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 22, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> That's dumb.



Explain....

What's wrong with be respectful with the sensibilities of the locals ???


----------



## Kirito (Feb 22, 2013)

PikaCheeka said:


> I'm not Seto Kaiba.



eh typo.



baconbits said:


> As a black man I can say that this isn't true.  Even Asian immigrants in the US harbor more prejudice than other immigrants do.  *I have rarely seen a black character portrayed positively in Japanese media.*  And the stories my relatives who were in the Navy tell me about Asia...
> 
> There is racism there.  Let's not pretend racism is purely an American problem.







pretty awesome bro if i say so myself


----------



## Kirito (Feb 22, 2013)

steveht93 said:


> And the title of dipshit today goes to...
> 
> If your house is made of glass you shouldn't throw at other people stones. Lol "Asians aren't racist",racism is everywhere.



and i'm wrong how? not throwing stones just stating the truth. go to SE asia not much racism here, westerners are worshiped like gods. SE asians are treated like animals there on the other hand. ever heard of domestic helpers?


----------



## Mael (Feb 22, 2013)




----------



## DeDeMouse (Feb 22, 2013)

makeoutparadise said:


> You're bolded part is what I'm talking about
> Again as I said before many Asians on the continent at the time saw the way Japan modernized itself as way to progress at the same hating Japan for annexing land
> 
> BTW KMT fought against the Japanese and hated them for their imperialism
> ...



That's after Japanese attacked China during 1930's. I implying Japan before 1930's. Before great depression occur. At Xinhai revolution Black Dragon Society helped Tongmenghui to fight the Qing. Some even became members. Like Ryōhei Uchida and Tōten Miyazaki.


----------



## Linkdarkside (Feb 22, 2013)

asians hate asians we know this..


----------



## steveht93 (Feb 22, 2013)

Kirito said:


> and i'm wrong how? not throwing stones just stating the truth. go to SE asia not much racism here, westerners are worshiped like gods. SE asians are treated like animals there on the other hand. ever heard of domestic helpers?



I know that some Arabic countries suffer from racism and as an Arab I have experienced this when I went to Saudi Arabia,but I have a problem with "the whole middle east is the most racist in Asia", Thats an unfair generalization.


----------



## Kirito (Feb 22, 2013)

steveht93 said:


> I know that some Arabic countries suffer from racism and as an Arab I have experienced this when I went to Saudi Arabia,but I have a problem with "the whole middle east is the most racist in Asia", Thats an unfair generalization.



no, i never said that. i said "that's where the racism is" and you proved my point with what you said: "I know that some Arabic countries suffer from racism and as an Arab I have experienced this when I went to Saudi Arabia,"

just truth from me bro. not hating on the middle east btw. i just know some people who've gone there saying that it's better to live poor at home rather than be treated bad living rich.



stats don't lie, in a month spanning dec 2012-jan 2013 theres been 8 cases already. and that's using recent data, and what's more the stats only use reported cases. a lot goes down unreported, you know that.

again, not hating on the middle east.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Feb 22, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> Explain....
> 
> What's wrong with be respectful with the sensibilities of the locals ???



Because in this instance you are talking about keeping your head down and staying quiet about a clear social issue.


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 22, 2013)

I don't understand why you guys still debating about racism in Asia or East Asia. Racism exist everywhere, nobody can deny that. For me the real question is : Is it ok for a foreigner teacher to be critics about the local country with the kids.


----------



## Linkdarkside (Feb 22, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> They slaughtered the one who oppose them. Westerner do the same too. *Even more horrible*.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Feb 22, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> I don't understand why you guys still debating about racism in Asia or East Asia. Racism exist everywhere, nobody can deny that. For me the real question is : Is it ok for a foreigner teacher to be critics about the local country with the kids.



Yes it is.


----------



## the_notorious_Z.É. (Feb 22, 2013)

I wish that ProudAsian guy was here.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Feb 22, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> Explain....
> 
> What's wrong with be respectful with the sensibilities of the locals ???



I think you're actually doing people a disservice by tiptoe-ing around them and only telling them what they want to hear. It carries with it the question of whether or not they are too fragile or incompetent to know the truth. Bad idea, if you ask me. 

There's a difference between respecting the sensibilities of the locals and pretending stuff doesn't exist just to make them feel better.


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 22, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Because in this instance you are talking about keeping your head down and staying quiet about a clear social issue.



It's talking about a social issue in a society the foreigner not belong. Talking about this with locals friends is ok* but as a teacher for kids* you shouldn't do that.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Feb 22, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> It's talking about a social issue in a society the foreigner not belong. Talking about this with locals friends is ok* but as a teacher for kids* you shouldn't do that.



"foreigner" "doesn't belong" but he lives there. Thank you for proving my point. This is exactly why he should make the children aware as well. Sometimes adults are hopeless cases, and the best time to snag prejudicial attitudes is early in life when they have yet to be established in the individual.


----------



## steveht93 (Feb 22, 2013)

Kirito said:


> no, i never said that. i said "that's where the racism is" and you proved my point with what you said: "I know that some Arabic countries suffer from racism and as an Arab I have experienced this when I went to Saudi Arabia,"
> 
> just truth from me bro. not hating on the middle east btw. i just know some people who've gone there saying that it's better to live poor at home rather than be treated bad living rich.
> 
> ...



I said that racism is everywhere. You said that in Asia there is no racism and then dumbed it all on the middle east. You should deal with your own racism(I'm not referring to you but racism in Asian as a region) before dumping it on other people.


----------



## dummy plug (Feb 22, 2013)

the first step to resolve an issue is to _acknowledge_ that there is issue going on, and then the next step is thinking of steps to resolve it...the guy's intention was not to shame Japan in anyway but instead to point out the social issues(racism/discrimination) and think of a solution to it...sending death threats and the like for a video like that seems too extreme and pathetic, they clearly didnt get his point 

and yeah i cant seem to shrug off the fact that he speaks and makes "rap" gestures at the same time


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 22, 2013)

PikaCheeka said:


> I think you're actually doing people a disservice by tiptoe-ing around them and only telling them what they want to hear. It carries with it the question of whether or not they are too fragile or incompetent to know the truth. Bad idea, if you ask me.
> 
> There's a difference between respecting the sensibilities of the locals and pretending stuff doesn't exist just to make them feel better.



Imagine a teacher coming from Europe to teach American kids the "immorality" of American society with it death penalty or the laws on guns. 
Or a Japanese teacher in the US talking about the "trouble" of a multicultural society.
My point is that when you are a foreigner teacher, you shouldn't talk about subjects that could be seen as controversial in the region you are with local kids. Even if your claims are rights.


----------



## Kirito (Feb 22, 2013)

steveht93 said:


> I said that racism is everywhere. You said that in Asia there is no racism and then dumbed it all on the middle east. You should deal with your own racism(I'm not referring to you but racism in Asian as a region) before dumping it on other people.



okay i'll fix my statement that i already cleared up several posts ago that here in asia there's racism. nowhere in the world you're not gonna find it cept maybe antarctica.

but tbh there's not much racism in SE asia like i said several posts ago too so we dont have too much of an issue on that, and its not my concern on how china japan and korea treats its foreigners so not my problem there either.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Feb 22, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> Imagine a teacher coming from Europe to teach American kids the "immorality" of American society with it death penalty or the laws on guns.
> Or a Japanese teacher in the US talking about the "trouble" of a multicultural society.
> My point is that when you are a foreigner teacher, you shouldn't talk about subjects that could be seen as controversial in the region you are with local kids. Even if your claims are rights.



This is really stupid. 

First issue, I see no problem with. You can provide that with statistics to assert your claims.

Second issue, that is almost advocating homogenity, which is impossible so that's a fast track to racial and cultural discrimination

Your point is that people should keep their heads down and stay quiet when they see an injustice. "Outsiders" should keep their noses out of "their" business, such a backwards way of thinking.


----------



## steveht93 (Feb 22, 2013)

Kirito said:


> okay i'll fix my statement that i already cleared up several posts ago that here in asia there's racism. nowhere in the world you're not gonna find it cept maybe antarctica.
> 
> but tbh there's not much racism in SE asia like i said several posts ago too so we dont have too much of an issue on that, and its not my concern on how china japan and korea treats its foreigners so not my problem there either.



Glad that we agree


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 22, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> This is really stupid.
> 
> First issue, I see no problem with. You can provide that with statistics to assert your claims.



This is the kind of debate you could have with your student when you teach in College, but not in school with young kids.



> Second issue, that is almost advocating homogenity, which is impossible so that's a fast track to racial and cultural discrimination



I don't defends that issue, however, this opinion is popular in countries like Japan. My point was that this kind of opinion taught  to American kids by a Japanese teacher would be controversial in the US (and I would understand them).



> Your point is that people should keep their heads down and stay quiet when they see an injustice. "Outsiders" should keep their noses out of "their" business, such a backwards way of thinking.



No, outsiders when they have the responsibility to teach to kids shouldn't teach his values if it's not compatible with the locals. Let the foreign society evolve by themselves rather that having a desire to *civilize* the locals.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Feb 22, 2013)

Kirito said:


> and i'm wrong how? not throwing stones just stating the truth. *go to SE asia not much racism here, westerners are worshiped like gods. SE asians are treated like animals there* on the other hand. ever heard of domestic helpers?



What the hell?

So Southeast Asians are racist against Southeast Asians. You yourself admitted it. SE Asians are racist. Like the rest of the world. Move along now.



Le M?le Dominant said:


> Imagine a teacher coming from Europe to teach American kids the "immorality" of American society with it death penalty or the laws on guns.
> Or a Japanese teacher in the US talking about the "trouble" of a multicultural society.
> My point is that when you are a foreigner teacher, you shouldn't talk about subjects that could be seen as controversial in the region you are with local kids. Even if your claims are rights.



Except there is a big difference between calling a country immoral and calling a country out for discrimination issues.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 22, 2013)

PikaCheeka said:


> Except there is a big difference between calling a country immoral and calling a country out for discrimination issues.



Both are critics of the society. It's ok in my opinion to do that in College with person to argue with but not with kids.


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## Seto Kaiba (Feb 22, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> Both are critics of the society. It's ok in my opinion to do that in College with person to argue with but not with kids.



It is absolutely appropriate to teach children about discrimination and why it is wrong, because it is with children do the seeds of prejudice get planted and it is as kids can they be taken out before they begin to take root.

[YOUTUBE]8bWlTZZN3DY[/YOUTUBE]


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## ExoSkel (Feb 22, 2013)

This forum should have a rule where mods can immediately ban weeaboos out of this site.


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## Syed (Feb 22, 2013)

^ The whole forum would be empty.


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## ExoSkel (Feb 22, 2013)

Syed said:


> ^ The whole forum would be empty.


Or at least ban them from participating in NF Cafe discussions.

They contribute absolutely nothing but complete utter bullshit and nonsense.

Who in the right fucking mind would defend Unit 731? Even our muslim fellas in this site who hates Israel wouldn't go that far to insult Jews like Mega by defending Schutzstaffel or Einsatzgruppen.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 22, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> It is absolutely appropriate to teach children about discrimination and why it is wrong, because it is with children do the seeds of prejudice get planted and it is as kids can they be taken out before they begin to take root.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]8bWlTZZN3DY[/YOUTUBE]



But the idea of racial discrimination exist in our society because of the evolution made in our societies. When you are foreigner teachers for kids, you mustn't brings the values of your country in your teaching. 
The US have an history of racism Japan doesn't have. The Japanese society must evolve with it issue on discrimination by themselves and not with foreign interventions. 
This is why I believe it's controversial to talk about such subjects with kids. It's not wrong to talk about discrimination in general in my opinion but when you start to talk about local discrimination, you touch a sensitive point that will create a feeling of rejection to you and your opinions.


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## .44 (Feb 22, 2013)

この外人はちょっと頭が悪いね。日本に人種差別のことがない。


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## baconbits (Feb 22, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> That's dumb.



I don't think it is.  He's not saying that your argument isn't sensible, just that it may not be wise to voice it.  Its like calling an ugly woman ugly.  Are you correct?  Yes.  Should you make that argument?  I wouldn't unless I had to.

Let's be honest: will the argument be heard from an outsider?  In most cases, no.  This teacher was very skilled in his presentation - he forced his students to confront reality and he was very effective, but the point still remains that the mere attempt, no matter how skillful is going to turn off the very people you're trying to convince.

So when it comes to LMD's concern, no it isn't stupid.  I think he has a legitimate point.  I'd still say there was racism in Japan but if you really want to convince the Japanese you're going to need a Japanese person to start carrying your water.  It's a question of what you're hoping to accomplish: are you just spouting your opinion or are you trying to change minds?


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 22, 2013)

ExoSkel said:


> Or at least ban them from participating in NF Cafe discussions.
> 
> They contribute absolutely nothing but complete utter bullshit and nonsense.
> 
> Who in the right fucking mind would defend Unit 731? Even our muslim fellas in this site who hates Israel wouldn't go that far to insult Jews like Mega by defending Schutzstaffel or Einsatzgruppen.


I'd go for banning racism, homophobia, and defending genocidal actions like Unit 731 from the Cafe. It'd make things better.


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## dummy plug (Feb 22, 2013)

baconbits said:


> I don't think it is.  He's not saying that your argument isn't sensible, just that it may not be wise to voice it.  Its like calling an ugly woman ugly.  Are you correct?  Yes.  Should you make that argument?  I wouldn't unless I had to.



but there i s nothing wrong being ugly so there is no point stating it in the first place(and saying it would just make you look bad)...racism and discrimination, however, need to be addressed but of course its sensitive and so what usually happens next is shitstorm.

yeah its not wise to voice it out but as a teacher, i think the guy had to say what he had in mind, what he knew was correct and with the intention of making things better...his approach wasnt insulting either...there will always be people against his opinion but at least he stood up for what he believes would benefit the society


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## TSC (Feb 22, 2013)

dummy plug said:


> but there i s nothing wrong being ugly so there is no point stating it in the first place(and saying it would just make you look bad)



I dunno....in this forum, people give sympathy to a handsome/beautiful person(especially if it's a hot girl) who commit a serious crime(big points if it's a pedophilia case), but if the convict is ugly? Throw the fucker away!


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## dummy plug (Feb 22, 2013)

TSC said:


> I dunno....in this forum, people give sympathy to a handsome/beautiful person(especially if it's a hot girl) who commit a serious crime(big points if it's a pedophilia case), but if the convict is ugly? Throw the fucker away!



that wasnt my point, i was just stating that being ugly is not inherently evil and therefore one doesnt need to say it out loud...you cant apply the same logic to racism/discrimination because it is wrong and the guy felt that as a teacher, he has to teach what is right to his students even if it causes a ruckus


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## Seto Kaiba (Feb 22, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> But the idea of racial discrimination exist in our society because of the evolution made in our societies. When you are foreigner teachers for kids, you mustn't brings the values of your country in your teaching.



He will do so intentionally or not. I think it says a lot how the first words you associate with him are "foreigner" "outsider" and "doesn't belong". When not abiding to your values means keeping your head down and quiet about discrimination, it should absolutely be thrown out the window. It is great the man isn't following that same attitude expected of Japanese.



> The US have an history of racism Japan doesn't have. The Japanese society must evolve with it issue on discrimination by themselves and not with foreign interventions.



Absolute crap. It will be with foreign interaction that many matter of race and discrimination be brought it up, and in our current globalized society it will be foreign interactions that shape the narrative. 



> This is why I believe it's controversial to talk about such subjects with kids. It's not wrong to talk about discrimination in general in my opinion but when you start to talk about local discrimination, you touch a sensitive point that will create a feeling of rejection to you and your opinions.



Such a reaction only illustrates the problem then.


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## ExoSkel (Feb 22, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> I'd go for banning racism, homophobia, and defending genocidal actions like Unit 731 from the Cafe. It'd make things better.


And only weeaboos would defend that type of past japanese genocide actions.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 22, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> He will do so intentionally or not. I think it says a lot how the first words you associate with him are "foreigner" "outsider" and "doesn't belong". When not abiding to your values means *keeping your head down and quiet* about discrimination, it should absolutely be thrown out the window. It is great the man isn't following that same attitude expected of Japanese.



WRONG. I said......AS A TEACHER......

I also said : 

" It's ok in my opinion to do that in College" 

"This is the kind of debate you could have with your student when you teach in College"

...and I want to ad to this that it's also ok to debate about it.

It's AS A TEACHER FOR KID, that I see it wrong. 

Because you're a foreigner, you won't be listened and even create a feeling of distrust.



> *Absolute crap*.



Oh fuck you Seto Kaiba. You can't debate with someone without act like an asshole ??? Seriously, what's wrong with you ??? You so narrow minded that you can't tolerate the opinions of the others without be insulting ???



> It will be with foreign interaction that many matter of race and discrimination be brought it up, and in our current globalized society it will be foreign interactions that shape the narrative.



You misunderstand me. I said, the US have an history on discrimination Japan doesn't have. The same with France, England or Italy. Your society evolved from a racist society that separate black and white to a country that can elect a black person president. In France, we have an other history on discrimination different from the US and less sensitive.
When I talk about foreign intervention, I'm not talking about immigration, I'm talking about foreigners coming to Japan to tell them what they suppose to do.
In my opinion, it better to let Japan evolve by themselves rather than trying to influence them and give them lessons.

Such a reaction only illustrates the problem then.[/QUOTE]

But I don't deny there is a problem there........


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## Seto Kaiba (Feb 22, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> WRONG. I said......AS A TEACHER......
> 
> I also said :
> 
> ...



And I'm saying making one aware of discrimination early in life is the best way to reduce or prevent it.



> Because you're a foreigner, you won't be listened and even create a feeling of distrust.



The Japanese have already perpetuated a culture of social conformity, he was going to be taking a risk regardless of being a foreigner. It is only the fact that they point out him being a foreigner, despite being Japanese, that only establishes his point about the society. 



> Oh fuck you Seto Kaiba. You can't debate with someone without act like an asshole ??? Seriously, what's wrong with you ??? You so narrow minded that you can't tolerate the opinions of the others without be insulting ???



I'm not particularly respectful of the idea of keeping one's head down and staying quiet.



> You misunderstand me. I said, the US have an history on discrimination Japan doesn't have. The same with France, England or Italy.



The roots of discrimination are similar, and the lessons from it can be carried over.



> Your society evolved from a racist society that separate black and white to a country that can elect a black person president. In France, we have an other history on discrimination different from the US and less sensitive.
> When I talk about foreign intervention, I'm not talking about immigration, I'm talking about foreigners coming to Japan to tell them what they suppose to do.



It's adopting foreign ideas that enabled many of our societies to advance in the first place. He's not telling them what to do, he is telling them what is there. There's an enormous difference, and it seems the reaction for many is to shoot the messenger. 



> In my opinion, it better to let Japan evolve by themselves rather than trying to influence them and give them lessons.



Their culture is not going to really enable that as I stated before about the kind of attitude they perpetuate in dealing with social issues.


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## Stunna (Feb 22, 2013)

Merciful Rose said:


> Why not? If we stopped talking about it right now, the next generation will simply not hear about it anymore.


Get outta hereeeeee


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## santanico (Feb 22, 2013)

wibisana said:


> 98% (more) japanese marry other japanese.
> 
> is this racist? or xenophobic... you judge yourself



well my friend is half Japanese half Salvadorean, she's part of the 2% I guess *shrug*


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## Mizura (Feb 22, 2013)

lol, half-Chinese who's lived most of her life in China here. I don't know about other countries, but saying that Chinese are just prideful but not racist is like saying Nazis were just prideful and not racist with their "white supremacy" stuff. No, I'm not saying Chinese are Nazis, but the general attitude of superiority and rejecting anything "impure" is there. (yes, it is true that more Chinese care less where you're from if you're rich, but you will still always be treated as an outsider of sorts)

Of course many Asian countries are homogeneous. They refuse to let outsiders integrate. You could be raised by Asian parents, been immersed in Asian culture all your life, but you still won't be considered say... Chinese or Korean if you're black. Heck they won't think of adopting a black kid. As others have pointed out, foreigners can get into a lot of sh*t with the Asian families of their Asian friend/girlfriend/boyfriend.

In China, look no further than the historic discrimination of the Han ethnicity against all of China's other ethnicities. Of course there are many laws protecting minor ethnic groups in China now. That's because they needed it. Then you should see all the nationalistic bashing of Japan (yes, there are several layers of racism: Chinese vs Chinese, Chinese vs Japanese, etc.). And let's not forget all the... whatever it is, in India.

Some of it isn't that bad anymore: I get the impression which ethnic group you belonged to matters a lot less now whether you are in China, Japan, or whatever, maybe because modern settings make it harder to tell everyone apart (you're all wearing the same school uniforms and listening to the same pop music). But there's still a strong mental barrier between "us" and "them" when it comes to foreigners from different groups.

Let's put it another way. How do you think the Asian countries I've mentioned would react to foreign groups as big as those in Europe or the U.S.? There's black discrimination in the U.S., but if a big proportion of blacks suddenly showed up in China, Japan or Korea, you can expect that the people in those countries won't even Think of granting them equal status. Europe and U.S. are aware of their internal racism issues, many genuinely feel ashamed about the racist elements and try to do something about it. Asians won't even feel the need to excuse themselves. For them, this discrimination is completely natural.


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## Mael (Feb 22, 2013)

Holy shit, Mizura plz marry me. 

But of course please tell DeDeMouse this.  The Japano-fanboy would apparently think you're full of crap too.


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## Mizura (Feb 22, 2013)

Well as I summarized to you just now:

In Europe or the U.S., people are ashamed enough about racism to consider it a national issue that needs to be urgently addressed. "It is wrong to discriminate against others just because their ancestors weren't born here and they look different. We should do a better job of integrating them." Asians don't even think it's a problem because they are completely shameless about it. They think it's natural.

It's like in Western countries, domestic abuse is a serious issue. In some backwards countries, they consider it natural to beat up your wife if she's disobedient, so they don't think they have a "domestic abuse" "problem."


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## Mael (Feb 22, 2013)

And as I said unto you before...ignorance seems to be bliss for some.

And if not ignorance, then almost an inherent sense of amorality behind perceptions of race be it good or bad.


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## .44 (Feb 22, 2013)

日本で、人種差別は問題ではない。

雲隠れの里の四代目雷影は黒人なんだ！


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## Seto Kaiba (Feb 22, 2013)

Tousen was black too.


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## .44 (Feb 22, 2013)

If there are black captains and kages, then clearly Japan doesn't have a problem with racism.

(Also Komamura. That's pretty progressive.)


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## DeDeMouse (Feb 22, 2013)

Mizura said:


> lol, half-Chinese who's lived most of her life in China here. I don't know about other countries, but saying that Chinese are just prideful but not racist is like saying Nazis were just prideful and not racist with their "white supremacy" stuff. No, I'm not saying Chinese are Nazis, but the general attitude of superiority and rejecting anything "impure" is there. (yes, it is true that more Chinese care less where you're from if you're rich, but you will still always be treated as an outsider of sorts)
> 
> Of course many Asian countries are homogeneous. They refuse to let outsiders integrate. You could be raised by Asian parents, been immersed in Asian culture all your life, but you still won't be considered say... Chinese or Korean if you're black. Heck they won't think of adopting a black kid. As others have pointed out, foreigners can get into a lot of sh*t with the Asian families of their Asian friend/girlfriend/boyfriend.
> 
> ...



This happens everywhere. Not just in China. Your personal racism experience isn't a solid prove that racism in Asia > racism in west.

How you can say China is homogeneous when in fact majority of Han are not pure blooded anymore? You should consider the geography & history of its nation. Just because China doesn't have many half black kids in their land doesn't mean they're more racist. What is Tibetans? they exist from intermarriage between Indian and Han. Uyghur? they exist from intermarriage between Turkic and Han. And so on.

The reason why blacks are lot more in western countries is because of their past. Just look at their history. Obviously, you can't applied this to China. They don't have any racism issue toward blacks in past centuries.

Most of Asians appreciate western media like movie, music, & fashion very openly. Even if they don't know its language & culture. But how about the westerners? they don't. If you ever live in China you know what i'm talking about.


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## Seto Kaiba (Feb 22, 2013)

> The reason why blacks are lot more in western countries is because of their past. Just look at their history. Obviously, you can't applied this to China. They don't have any racism issue toward blacks in past centuries.



Because they weren't largely interacting with them genius! Now that they are, you can see very clearly the often bigoted reactions towards black people.


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## DeDeMouse (Feb 22, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Because they weren't largely interacting with them genius! Now that they are, you can see very clearly the often bigoted reactions towards black people.



You saying like this doesn't happen in western countries too.


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## Seto Kaiba (Feb 22, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> You saying like this doesn't happen in western countries too.



We aren't denying it, unlike you. All you've been going is B-B-B-BUT THE WEST, and acting like Asian countries do not have this problem with racism.


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## DeDeMouse (Feb 22, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> We aren't denying it, unlike you. All you've been going is B-B-B-BUT THE WEST, and acting like Asian countries do not have this problem with racism.



No. You just prejudice a lot. What i'm saying to Mizura is racism in Asia is not equivalent to what in West. Racism can happen everywhere.


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## Shock Therapy (Feb 22, 2013)

Chinese are the most racist people in the world. First hand experience from me, my friends, our parents, any chinese person i've ever met. And we don't give 2 fucks.


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## Seto Kaiba (Feb 22, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> No. You just prejudice a lot. What i'm saying to Mizura is racism in Asia is not equivalent to what in West. Racism can happen everywhere.



I prejudice a lot? No, you are just continuing to make ignorant statements. Racism in Asia is just as much an issue as anywhere, but like I stated western societies tend to be more heterogenous, so we have been forced to confront this issue more than those in the East.


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## DeDeMouse (Feb 22, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> I prejudice a lot? No, you are just continuing to make ignorant statements. Racism in Asia is just as much an issue as anywhere, but like I stated western societies tend to be more heterogenous, so we have been forced to confront this issue more than those in the East.



So i'm ignorant because i'm pointing out racism in west? wow. The reason western societies confront this issue more than those in the East is because of westerner itself. Not because minorities.


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## Mael (Feb 22, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> So i'm ignorant because i'm pointing out racism in west? wow. The reason western societies confront this issue more than those in the East is because of westerner itself. Not because minorities.



Yet woefully denying your own.

That's why you fail dude.  It's reactionary deflection.  You're an apologist who refutes even a Chinese mainlander's confirmation because you're so butthurt with the truth.  Basically you are a pathetic human being with lesser humility than Rush Limbaugh or Joseph Goebbels.  You make me sick.


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## Seto Kaiba (Feb 22, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> So i'm ignorant because i'm pointing out racism in west? wow. The reason western societies confront this issue more than those in the East is because of westerner itself. Not because minorities.



This is what I mean by your ignorant statements. 

You are not pointing out anything, what you're doing is *pointing fingers*, we acknowledge the issue over here very clearly. We discuss it regularly, and quite critical of ourselves about it, and that has continued to be the case for decades at the least. You are trying to deflect from the matter of racism present in Asia, which kind of illustrates the problem with it there, you are trying to rationalize to yourself that it is not an issue that really needs to be addressed there. Western societies confront the issue because of a more diverse population, and that does include western ideals as well as the feelings and ideals of the minority populations on the issue.


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## Fruits Basket Fan (Feb 22, 2013)

I have been to Japan and South Korea and this was my experience and witness of the two countries:

Japan has institutionalized racism and trouble accepting its brutal past against non-Japanese during the World War II era and how it treated its Ainu and Okinawan people in the past.

However, in the modern media...there is a slight acceptance of half Japanese and/or foreigners who can speak fluent Japanese if they can prove that they have assimilated (and good looking).

I was mistaken to either be Japanese from the country side (went there sporting a tan from playing sports) or half Japanese and most Japanese assumed I can speak Japanese until they realized that I could not understand them or my foreign gestures.

But then there were people who called me a sangokujin (third world country person or anyone from Japan's ex colonies between the World Wars) and say it like it was the most natural thing to say.

Although, it is slowly being accepted for Japanese men to sport a tan because it implies manliness, women must stay "pale" in order to have a chance of getting married to a respectable, rich Japanese man.

Japanese were pissed off that China stole its place as second biggest economy in the world that I heard quite a lot of anti-Chinese rhetoric among the natives.





South Korea was where I suffered the worst discrimination I have ever experienced in my life, however!

Not only is the racism institutionalized like Japan, but you experience it verbally if you are half Korean, Chinese, Southeast Asian, or black.

I was mistaken to be a half Korean and was called a *honyol* by the elders and the younger crowd kept calling me a _*happa*_ (though, to be fair, this does not give out a negative connation compared to honyol....but it was still annoying for them to say it right in front of my face).

I had shop keepers following me in the store to make sure that I do not steal anything while they did not do this to a extreme level for the white and Korean customers and some even waiting outside in case I made a run for it mostly because I was two shades darker than their "delicate, pasty white face" due to their exteme use of whitening cosmetics and avoiding the sun like it was the plague (while I do not) even though it is summer !

I see how they treated Chinese and Southeast Asians that it made my treatment seem like first class (extreme verbal showdowns from the elders, old and young Koreans flocking away from them in the subways and sidewalks if they are very dark, and constant gossip and dirty looks right in front of them).


Even in the modern media, South Korea still does not accept mixed blood or foreign looking artists compared to the rate of Japan.

Hell, there was some outrage from the foreign community where a half black and Korean girl did not won the K-pop singing contest despite having the highest scores from the judges because the popular vote from the fans did not think she fit the Korean female ideal beauty (pale skin and very skinny body structure) since she had darker skin and a curvy body.





Never been to China, but I was surprised that the discrimination was that bad.


I would at least thought that since China has more ethnic minorities in its large country that it would be more accepting of them.....but I guess not.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 22, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> So i'm ignorant because i'm pointing out racism in west? wow. The reason western societies confront this issue more than those in the East is because of westerner itself. Not because minorities.




Its because we're ashamed that racism even EXISTS here. For so called 'enlightened' areas, the Westerners are ashamed that there can still be _medieval_ attitudes like race. Its why in the west? Groups like the KKK, Neo-Nazi, Skinheads, etc. are hated and every action is taken to take them down. But look at the East: racism isn't seen as taboo. They portray foreigners as savages still. Look at all the anti-America or anti-West Anime in Japan for instance. Or how about North Korea's near lynching of a black Cuban ambassador-who was only nearly lynched BECAUSE he was black? Or look at Tokyo's governor who, instead of looking like an idiot-keeps being REWARDED for his racism against blacks, the Chinese, and Koreans.


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## Chelydra (Feb 22, 2013)

Mael said:


> Yet woefully denying your own.
> 
> That's why you fail dude.  It's reactionary deflection.  You're an apologist who refutes even a Chinese mainlander's confirmation because you're so butthurt with the truth.  Basically you are a pathetic human being with lesser humility than Rush Limbaugh or Joseph Goebbels.  You make me sick.



You and seito can't win against this nut.

Anyways my teacher for modern Japanese history is from Japan and routinely goes back and fourth between the two countries, and she has great difficulty in explaining about the harsh discrimination that goes on in Japan due to the very personal accounts of the topic matter we are reading. She makes no effort to try and whitewash or downplay the reality of the situation over there both in the past and present.


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## Inuhanyou (Feb 22, 2013)

Just for the record, nobody defending this teacher is arguing that the Japanese are somehow worse than anyone on earth. That's the point, everyone is the same and no one is exempt. There are Japanese guilty of prejudice and hate the same as any other country in the world. Instead of dismissing that, you should realize that its common sense.


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## Mael (Feb 22, 2013)

But...but the WEST IS WORSE INU U DON' GET IT. 

Japanese-apologizing Taiwanese...holy fucking shit...mind blown.

It's like Nazi-apologizing Ukrainians...


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## Fruits Basket Fan (Feb 22, 2013)

Oh yeah, forgot to add that Japanese (and most Asians) hate being proven that they were wrong especially from foreigners that they either deny it or belittle it to make it seem like the victims deserved it!

Or just play dumb or hardly mention it.


Which is surprising since Japan always had an obsession with doing things in a perfectly, orderly way that you would think that it would address the problems from the past, learn from it, and move forward trying to make things better so it will not happen again.


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## Schneider (Feb 23, 2013)

Kirito said:


> but tbh there's not much racism in SE asia



indonesian speaking here. that's a bold statement you got there brother, but always be sure to check on your facts. 

did you know that chinese indonesians just got their cultural freedom as recent as the 21st century? did you know that there was a massive riot that? sure things have calmed down a lot by now, with the indo-chinese mingling peacefully with the locals, but i'd be in denial if i say that anti-chinese sentiments have completely died down. i still heard nasty things from public figures in television recently, though mostly related to the new vice-governor, who is chinese-born.

personally to me, everywhere is the same. there will always be a form of racism, no matter how miniscule they are.



Kirito said:


> and i'm wrong how? not throwing stones just stating the truth. go to SE asia not much racism here, westerners are worshiped like gods. SE asians are treated like animals there on the other hand. ever heard of domestic helpers?



i do kind of agree on se asians being racist on each other, though i think it's more on the silly discriminatory side. west javanese, no matter what ethnic they're from, including the chinese ones, generally doesn't acknowledge the fact that they're javanese, as in born in java island. mildly annoying, but it stings when you clearly spot their intent on viewing central & east javanese in inferior colors. 

as far as indonesia goes, i've heard no domestic helpers (working domestically) "being treated like animals". get shouted on when they fuck up, yes. but they're no slaves, it's a job and they are paid, and most households even provide food and sheltering as well as housing facilities. most violent cases are probably heard from abroad, with the middle east being the most frequent. for se asia, i do have heard abusive stories from singapore and malay a while back.


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## Mael (Feb 23, 2013)

Fruits Basket Fan said:


> Oh yeah, forgot to add that Japanese (and most Asians) hate being proven that they were wrong especially from foreigners that they either deny it or belittle it to make it seem like the victims deserved it!
> 
> Or just play dumb or hardly mention it.
> 
> ...



Japanese were proven wrong in 1945 when the United States curbstomped that fucking military into the ground and made them a bitch for decades.  They and their apologists from all others (Taiwan in this case) would do well to heed lessons from history.


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## DeDeMouse (Feb 23, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> Just for the record, nobody defending this teacher is arguing that the Japanese are somehow worse than anyone on earth. That's the point, everyone is the same and no one is exempt. There are Japanese guilty of prejudice and hate the same as any other country in the world. Instead of dismissing that, you should realize that its common sense.



Indeed. Tho some people here think racism in Japan is more worse than in west. Which is totally absurd. As far as I know, Japanese are the least racist country that I've been. I don't know Okinawa but so far compare to U.S. Japan is so far advanced over racism issues.


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## Fruits Basket Fan (Feb 23, 2013)

You still have not learned anything, have you?


While I agree that Japan in general is not as loud with its racism compared to the West or even South Korea.....it is still there.


Japan has a meek culture that is all about saving face and preserving "harmony" only in the surface while behind your backs, they say the most vile and hurtful things about you.


I hear the shit they say about other people (especially about other Asians) even outside their own country when they go abroad and not realizing that I can understand slightly what they say about them and occasionally me, at times.


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## Chelydra (Feb 23, 2013)

when you have Japanese government officials trying to bribe people in the united states to take down monuments to the abused comfort women, you cannot say that Japan does not have worse race issues than the west. A majority of western nations do not try to deny that they fucked up in the past, and instead try to correct the wrongs of the past, not sweep it under the rug.


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## Seto Kaiba (Feb 23, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> Indeed. Tho some people here think racism in Japan is more worse than in west. Which is totally absurd. As far as I know, Japanese are the least racist country that I've been. I don't know Okinawa but so far compare to U.S. Japan is so far advanced over racism issues.



Wow. Way to miss his point, as well as everyone else's. He said Japan is just as racist *at the least* as every other country. Yet here you are trying to deflect from the matter. Japan hasn't dealt with its racism issues, it has always pervailed a mentality that one should keep their head down and silent about many societal problems not limited to discrimination.


----------



## Mael (Feb 23, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> Indeed. Tho some people here think racism in Japan is more worse than in west. Which is totally absurd. As far as I know, Japanese are the least racist country that I've been. I don't know Okinawa but so far compare to U.S. Japan is so far advanced over racism issues.



You are God damn deluded.

Jump in front of a fucking truck.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Feb 23, 2013)

To put it short, Inu wasn't agreeing with you at all DeDe, especially not with your disgusting apologism, deflection, and outright denial


----------



## Inuhanyou (Feb 23, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> Indeed. Tho some people here think racism in Japan is more worse than in west. Which is totally absurd. As far as I know, Japanese are the least racist country that I've been. I don't know Okinawa but so far compare to U.S. Japan is so far advanced over racism issues.



Don't take what i said and twist it to fit your argument.  What you just said is completely ridiculous.

There is a Japan problem with racism. The main issue, is that there is no discussion, because they are a homogeneous society, so usually, they don't confront it.

They don't recognize it, because unlike the US and places like that, they are not put into a constant position to have to interact with other races and cultures outside of themselves.

Its a consequence of being on an island and having shit for brains nationalist leaders for so many years brainwashing the citizens.

I don't blame the average citizen or whitewash the Japanese in general like they are predisposed genetically to racism. There are many open minded Japanese too, *the same as everywhere else*.

Japan has issues, but i'm saying that they are not so different from other places.


----------



## Kirito (Feb 23, 2013)

PikaCheeka said:


> What the hell?
> 
> So Southeast Asians are racist against Southeast Asians. You yourself admitted it. SE Asians are racist. Like the rest of the world. Move along now.



picking up scraps and throwing them at me while retreating isn't impressive too you know. move along now.



Mizura said:


> lol, half-Chinese who's lived most of her life in China here. I don't know about other countries, but saying that Chinese are just prideful but not racist is like saying Nazis were just prideful and not racist with their "white supremacy" stuff. No, I'm not saying Chinese are Nazis, but the general attitude of superiority and rejecting anything "impure" is there. (yes, it is true that more Chinese care less where you're from if you're rich, but you will still always be treated as an outsider of sorts)



quarter chinese here too. my family was banished because my grandpa married a filipino. gramps always told me to forgive my family. also make love not war. no denying they're racist but the nationalistic pride is more prevalent from what i've seen as some of the younger gens of the family are accepting us, which is why i said that somewhat general statement.



Schneider said:


> indonesian speaking here. that's a bold statement you got there brother, but always be sure to check on your facts.
> 
> did you know that chinese indonesians just got their cultural freedom as recent as the 21st century? did you know that there was a massive riot that? sure things have calmed down a lot by now, with the indo-chinese mingling peacefully with the locals, but i'd be in denial if i say that anti-chinese sentiments have completely died down. i still heard nasty things from public figures in television recently, though mostly related to the new vice-governor, who is chinese-born.
> 
> personally to me, everywhere is the same. there will always be a form of racism, no matter how miniscule they are.



i'm talking about recently tho. i've been to java and sumatra, indonesia is a nice place, hell lot cheaper too. 

anyway i was treated like one of the locals, good hospitality, and if ever there was resentment among us it's gone now. heck i don't think SE ever had an all out war between races, only religions. but i'm not sure about that lest someone take that sentence and do a wiki search.



Schneider said:


> i do kind of agree on se asians being racist on each other, though i think it's more on the silly discriminatory side. west javanese, no matter what ethnic they're from, including the chinese ones, generally doesn't acknowledge the fact that they're javanese, as in born in java island. mildly annoying, but it stings when you clearly spot their intent on viewing central & east javanese in inferior colors.



never knew that. thanks for the info



Schneider said:


> as far as indonesia goes, i've heard no domestic helpers (working domestically) "being treated like animals". get shouted on when they fuck up, yes. but they're no slaves, it's a job and they are paid, and most households even provide food and sheltering as well as housing facilities. most violent cases are probably heard from abroad, with the middle east being the most frequent. for se asia, i do have heard abusive stories from singapore and malay a while back.



nah the domestic helper thing is true. dunno about your country but it's really common here in the phil. its also the reason why malaysians started working in their own rather than going outside.


----------



## Brotha Yasuji (Feb 23, 2013)

makeoutparadise said:


> Actually you can considering nationalism fosters racism and anti-foreign sentiment.



Not all forms actually.


----------



## makeoutparadise (Feb 23, 2013)

Brotha Yasuji said:


> Not all forms actually.



Hmmm........


----------



## kluang (Feb 23, 2013)

Are Asian racist?

Yes we are.

Do we hide the fact we are racist?

No we don't.

Do we discriminate every Asian race?

No.

Do we selectively discriminate races?

Yes.

Why?

History, blood (ethnic) and war. Koreans and China still piss off on what the Japanese did to them in WW2, Japanese is in denial. 

Does religion play a part?

Yes. Asian doesn't go around spreading their religion to other people. Chinese with their Buddhist view, Indian with their own, and South East Asian mainly Malaysian and Indonesian become Islam with a bit of both Indian and Chinese culture and religion theme in them. 

Religion is personal, but 2 religious stupid race never get along. Thats why India split in 2 into India and Pakistan, and Pakistan split themselves into Pakistan and Bangladesh and poor Kashmir get stuck in the middle.

Are we prideful?

Yes.

Is it good?

Yes and no. Yes for nationalism, loyalty..., no for sweeping every problem under a rug so we can keep a "face" for the society look upon us.

Asian values my friends.



these values influence most Asian and is use by govt to legitimize authoritarian in security and stability over liberty and human rights etc like that


----------



## Mizura (Feb 23, 2013)

Fruits Basket Fan said:


> Never been to China, but I was surprised that the discrimination was that bad.


It depends on the area, and it depends on what you are/look like. It's less of a problem in major cities, but there are ethnic conflicts still in poorer regions. Han business owners in certain provinces will refuse to hire people from certain ethnics, for example (see conflicts in Xinjiang). They can give excuses such as "they're lazy/less hardworking/less competent", but as you can see that generalization IS racism in itself. Generally, China reacts to the issue through forced homogenization, only preserving superficial aspects like dances and such.

Most Chinese won't be Rude to you, especially if you're white. They can actually be very friendly of foreign visitors. But you'll never truly be "one of them." And if you want to become "one of them" (through marriage or whatever), watch the awkwardness follow.



> no denying they're racist but the nationalistic pride is more prevalent from what i've seen as some of the younger gens of the family are accepting us, which is why i said that somewhat general statement.


There are two ways to define nationalistic pride: the first is belonging to a country, the second is belonging to a culture. Chinese are nationalistic too, but overall what is going on is not mere devotion to a country:
- A Chinese who grew up overseas and holds a foreign passport would still be considered a Chinese, albeit a lesser one.
- However, you could be a foreigner who spent his whole life in China, but if you don't look Chinese, you will always, always be viewed as an outsider. You can be a "friend of China", but not Chinese.

You could then say that it is a cultural pride. But that's false too. Most Chinese have long left behind most of their cultural heritage. Young people these days eat at McDonald's, watch U.S. films, wear foreign brands and don't give two shits about Confucius. In fact, I know plenty of foreigners who have Far more knowledge, love and respect of Chinese culture than most Chinese themselves. Those young Chinese still think themselves as Chinese though while foreigners cannot be. Why? Because they were born from one, and look like one. That's it. In other words, because their Race is Chinese.

The historically bloody and still-not-completely settled issues between ethnic groups also show that this isn't a mere issue of borders.

Edit: Nice summary by kluang. Asian societies just like to sweep the problems under a rug. It's still there though.


----------



## wibisana (Feb 23, 2013)

Schneider said:


> indonesian speaking here. that's a bold statement you got there brother, but always be sure to check on your facts.
> 
> did you know that chinese indonesians just got their cultural freedom as recent as the 21st century? did you know that there was a massive riot that? sure things have calmed down a lot by now, with the indo-chinese mingling peacefully with the locals, but i'd be in denial if i say that anti-chinese sentiments have completely died down. i still heard nasty things from public figures in television recently, though mostly related to the new vice-governor, who is chinese-born.
> 
> ...



Chinese is hated in Indonesia (also killed and raped in 1998) not because they are chinese, but because the GENERALLY richer than "Native" tribe/ethnic so it is not actually racism but envy and Wealth Gap things.

yes Indonesia is racist but not as bad as it sound, people wont yell at street hey you chinese/javanese/etc. majority of Indonesia is tolerant and peaceful, but unfortunately we are easily provoked by racist/religion things.

I had Chinese friend in Highschool he was so kind and nice. yes he is hated in class but not because he is chinese but because he wont tell answer in exam/wont allow copy his homework. lol.

but I actually copy his homework many times because I was so lazy and he feels sorry is I got kicked from class, since I sit next to him.


----------



## Lina Inverse (Feb 23, 2013)

I remember this time I went to Hong Kong to find that Lego Star Destroyer

most of the people there either don't give a shit/ignore me or sound pissed

heck, the only friendly people there were the sales ladies I bought the aforementioned item, and Disneyland

everyone else was, for the lack of better term, unhospitable


----------



## Deleted member 198194 (Feb 23, 2013)

Some people in this thread...


----------



## Deleted member 198194 (Feb 23, 2013)

Newsflash apologists: he's not saying Japanese people are racist, he's saying racism exists in Japan.

Look, racism exists everywhere.  As an Afghan, I'll be the first to admit my people are racist as fuck.  Most of them are scared of black people and hate East-Asian looking people (look up their history with Hazaras).  The East-Asian countries aren't free of the racism tag either.  An educated populace helps, as does multicultural exposure, but in the end as long as prejudice exists, racism will exist.  Stop the conceited idealism and accept this fact.


----------



## Fojos (Feb 23, 2013)

Kirito said:


> unlike you guys we don't call each other out on the sizes of our eyes or skin color.
> 
> my source: im asian and i live in asia



That's exactly why your comments are invalid. It's the exact thing you do, you just try to call it other things. Xenophobic piece of shits.

You try to paint countries like the philippines as some sort of social paradise, but trust me, that's nowhere near true.

If anything racism in Asia is worse, because of people like you who view it as simple "pride". In the western world people at least admit it exists.



DeDeMouse said:


> Kirito is right. I do ever live in U.S and i  knew exactly the difference of racism in America and Asia. Asians mostly  discriminate people based on their social status and nationality. In  America, people can died or bullied just because of their ethnicity.  History of racism in western country is way more rampant.



They have killed people over regional ethnicity, so just no.


----------



## Schneider (Feb 23, 2013)

Mizura said:


> .
> There are two ways to define nationalistic pride: the first is belonging to a country, the second is belonging to a culture. Chinese are nationalistic too, but overall what is going on is not mere devotion to a country:
> *- A Chinese who grew up overseas and holds a foreign passport would still be considered a Chinese, albeit a lesser one.*
> - However, you could be a foreigner who spent his whole life in China, but if you don't look Chinese, you will always, always be viewed as an outsider. You can be a "friend of China", but not Chinese.



this is a weird form discrimination i am experiencing currently, as a 华侨(huaqiao, foreign of chinese descent) studying in china. i can attest the fact that mainlanders are very friendly to foreigners, but with it they also expect you to have unique/exotic features, like being white/black, wide eyes, pointy nose, naturally different hair, etc. as someone lacking those features, for (some of) them, it's like having someone from an exotic asian country bring them mcdonalds. combined with the lack of mandarin proficiency, they'll just view you, as termed above, as their "lesser" selves. my friend had experienced hilarious second rate treatments from the case. 

i guess in the long run, it'll be easier to blend in when i master their tongue. but alas, it'll take years while enduring these. not to discredit the good people, i did meet friendly ones. but being good in english (if not, generous with money) REALLY helps.　

side note: most chinese indonesians abroad, including me, identify ourselves as indonesians, more than our chinese heritage.



wibisana said:


> Chinese is hated in Indonesia (also killed and raped in 1998) not because they are chinese, but because the GENERALLY richer than "Native" tribe/ethnic so it is not actually racism but envy and Wealth Gap things.
> 
> yes Indonesia is racist but not as bad as it sound, people wont yell at street hey you chinese/javanese/etc. majority of Indonesia is tolerant and peaceful, but unfortunately we are easily provoked by racist/religion things.
> 
> ...



considering the fact that one of the ways for the chinese to save their belongings were lying through putting "native's/local's owned" signs in front of their doors, yes it does say racism. the wealth envy IS the form of racism, because it was aimed mostly at a single ethnic. also, hate is a strong word. during the riot, surabaya (my hometown) was completely stable. and as you put it, we are mostly tolerant and peaceful, and despite bloody history, i myself currently am living comfortably free of hate. 

on a side note, i forgot to mention the violent tendencies between the madurese and the dayak tribe. there were incidents of racially motivated murders, just because they hate each other. one of minor but persistent spots of indonesia's racism. not gonna find them under normal city life, but it happened.

btw, asal mana bro?


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 23, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> And I'm saying making one aware of discrimination early in life is the best way to reduce or prevent it.



I understood your point. And my answer wasn't about it but about this part 



> keeping your head down and quiet



You didn't understood my point because I talking about the role of teacher and especially when he is foreigner. And you see that as keeping your head down. No, you can debate about this. 
My point is that when *you have the position of teacher for kids*, it's to wise to create a discussion that could be controversial. It's even worst when you are a foreigner.




> The Japanese have already perpetuated a culture of social conformity, he was going to be taking a risk regardless of being a foreigner. It is only the fact that they point out him being a foreigner, despite being Japanese, that only establishes his point about the society.



This teacher is American. This is why his teaching could be seen as controversial about few subjects like discrimination. This person is influenced by the society he lived and the values from the society could create a shock and a reaction of distrust for the locals.



> I'm not particularly respectful of the idea of keeping one's head down and staying quiet.



You're not particular respectful in general, that's all. Don't try to find a excuse to your rude attitude.




> The roots of discrimination are similar, and the lessons from it can be carried over.



Not really, the roots of discrimination are not similar from a country to an other, it depends on the culture and the history. 



> It's adopting foreign ideas that enabled many of our societies to advance in the first place. He's not telling them what to do, he is telling them what is there. There's an enormous difference, and it seems the reaction for many is to shoot the messenger.



Yes, but the initiative of adopting foreign ideas must come from the Japanese themselves, this is why I believe we should let the Japanese society evolve by itself. You won't have results if you come to their place, give them lessons. 



> Their culture is not going to really enable that as I stated before about the kind of attitude they perpetuate in dealing with social issues.



Yes, it's a different culture, this is why, I think you must keep in mind this detail when you teaching to kids abroad. Your culture and their culture are different.


----------



## Linkdarkside (Feb 23, 2013)

did the teacher show his student this picture.:ho


----------



## Kirito (Feb 23, 2013)

Fojos said:


> That's exactly why your comments are invalid. It's the exact thing you do, you just try to call it other things. Xenophobic piece of shits.
> 
> You try to paint countries like the philippines as some sort of social paradise, but trust me, that's nowhere near true.
> 
> If anything racism in Asia is worse, because of people like you who view it as simple "pride". In the western world people at least admit it exists.



why would i trust you? i live here, i know it's a social paradise, heck we're taught how to be hospitable in elementary. all ur doing is labeling me xenophobic and not proving anything except maybe the fact that you're a liar and a dick


----------



## Xion (Feb 23, 2013)

Kirito said:


> why would i trust you? i live here,* i know it's a social paradise*, heck we're taught how to be hospitable in elementary. all ur doing is labeling me xenophobic and not proving anything except maybe the fact that you're a liar and a dick



Bullshit alert triggered.

Code Red.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Feb 23, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> I understood your point. And my answer wasn't about it but about this part
> 
> You didn't understood my point because I talking about the role of teacher and especially when he is foreigner. And you see that as keeping your head down. No, you can debate about this.
> My point is that when *you have the position of teacher for kids*, it's to wise to create a discussion that could be controversial. It's even worst when you are a foreigner.



Sometimes controversy is the necessary catalyst for change. Confrontation of the issue, and making individuals aware of it at such a young age my rile the old-fashioned, but that doesn't make it wrong. He's trying to instill a social awareness in his students.



> This teacher is American. This is why his teaching could be seen as controversial about few subjects like discrimination. This person is influenced by the society he lived and the values from the society could create a shock and a reaction of distrust for the locals.



He is American, but of Japanese descent. Had the matter of his country of origin never been disclosed, they probably would not have known better. The fact that his critics need to constantly point out his birth country only establishes the point he made about the society as I stated. Change is often met with resistance, particularly when generations have grown comfortable and complacent with the way things were prior. People generally do not like efforts made to bring about social awareness, be it from foreigners or locals. 



> You're not particular respectful in general, that's all. Don't try to find a excuse to your rude attitude.



I don't need an excuse, I'm not worried about you or your feelings. I am giving an explanation though since you don't seem to know what that is.



> Not really, the roots of discrimination are not similar from a country to an other, it depends on the culture and the history.



The factors and reasons are startlingly similar. Sex, social status, skin color, place of birth, cultural identity, etc. These are all factors all societies have used to discriminate against another. Because they are all societies made by humans.



> Yes, but the initiative of adopting foreign ideas must come from the Japanese themselves, this is why I believe we should let the Japanese society evolve by itself. You won't have results if you come to their place, give them lessons.



No, that is absurd. We live in a globalized society and ideas will be exchanged whether they like it or not. It is historically a losing battle to try and shut oneself off from all forms of international influence. Sometimes it takes that to bring about a social awakening among people.



> Yes, it's a different culture, this is why, I think you must keep in mind this detail when you teaching to kids abroad. Your culture and their culture are different.



They are different, but that is no reason that they should not be exchanged and particular ideals therein. Especially when it comes to equality.


----------



## Kirito (Feb 23, 2013)

Xion said:


> Bullshit alert triggered.
> 
> Code Red.



you have any evidence to counter my claim?

*waits for wiki sources and googled links that he actually doesn't know anything about, and im 75% sure its related to world war or anything related to the colonial period*


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Feb 23, 2013)

I love how you make it out as if academic references aren't valid. You're only helping him out.


----------



## DeDeMouse (Feb 23, 2013)

Kirito said:


> why would i trust you? i live here, i know it's a social paradise, heck we're taught how to be hospitable in elementary. all ur doing is labeling me xenophobic and not proving anything except maybe the fact that you're a liar and a dick



What he should know is Philippine is a 3rd world country. Has been suppressed by western colonial power for centuries. Westerners exploited Philippine's natural resources and labors. They didn't teach them any knowledge and literacy.
My point is, racism indeed happen in Philippine. But you just can expect it at least from someone who not have a good education. Whilst in any western countries, even people who has very good education & facility can still very openly racist & discriminative. Which is totally perplexing.


----------



## Revolution (Feb 23, 2013)

If you are going into a different country, you should be familiar with their customs, least you make a faux paus.


----------



## Sanity Check (Feb 23, 2013)

Is japan the place where people discriminate based on blood type?

:WOW

Only 100 posts to Hokage.  Whew.


----------



## Kirito (Feb 23, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> I love how you make it out as if academic references aren't valid. You're only helping him out.



no, they're perfectly valid. i'm saying that there's a difference between putting out links and really knowing them inside out. there's also bringing up things so far back in the past it doesn't really matter. it's like defending a thesis you don't know anything about, plus it's written in aramaic.


----------



## Syed (Feb 23, 2013)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> Is japan the place where people discriminate based on blood type?
> 
> :WOW
> 
> Only 100 posts to Hokage.  Whew.



Yep. 



Sweet I'm O+ the ladies will be all over me in Japan 

I remember reading somewhere how some Japanese dude who was B blood type was bullied by his boss just for that reason.


----------



## ShiggyDiggyDoo (Feb 23, 2013)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> Is japan the place where people discriminate based on blood type?
> 
> :WOW
> 
> Only 100 posts to Hokage.  Whew.



They also even discriminate based on the


----------



## Revolution (Feb 23, 2013)

The funny thing is the convertor is going to another land and trying to convert the people their own way of thinking.  It may or may not work, but that is what is going on here.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Feb 23, 2013)

Bird of Paradise said:


> The funny thing is (_I'm going to be racist here_) the white man is going to another land and trying to convert the people their own way of thinking.  It may or may not work, but that is what is going on here.



The teacher is of Japanese heritage, and there you go making more unintelligent posts.


----------



## Eagereyez (Feb 23, 2013)

I honestly don't like Japanese culture. There's not enough freedom to say and do what you want without fear of everyone around you immediately passing judgment. Such is the result of living in a collectivist society. 

A lot of people in this thread don't understand what racism actually is. Racism is the belief that one ethnic group is inherently superior to another. I don't think that teacher proved racism exists in Japan, although I would seriously doubt that it doesn't exist.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/duke-racist-rager-141248540.html

There's some food for thought. How many of you would actually consider the people in that news article racist?


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Feb 23, 2013)

Racism is very clearly practiced in Japan, we're aware of what it is but we have cited the many other factors through which a largely homogenous society such as Japan uses to discriminate _among themselves_ as well.


----------



## DeDeMouse (Feb 24, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Racism is very clearly practiced in Japan, we're aware of what it is but we have cited the many other factors through which a largely homogenous society such as Japan uses to discriminate _among themselves_ as well.



What is "among themselves"? because they all look same to you? since Japan use to discriminate "among themselves" therefore Asians are more racists than westerner? well, that's erroneous.


----------



## Mael (Feb 24, 2013)

DeDeMouse missing the point again.

No one is saying one's more racist than the other, but fucking acknowledging it is the big difference and you Asians seem privy to sweep it under the rug.

But whatever dude keep apologizing for your own kind since you're already a racist toward any Westerner.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Feb 24, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> What is "among themselves"? because they all look same to you? since Japan use to discriminate "among themselves" therefore Asians are more racists than westerner? well, that's erroneous.



This is your problem or problems rather:

1. Clearly any point everyone has addressed to you has gone over your head.

2. You think this is a contest of who is more racist, Asians or westerners.

3. You won't even acknowledge the issue of discrimination in your area.


----------



## SoleAccord (Feb 24, 2013)

.44 said:


> If there are black captains and kages, then clearly Japan doesn't have a problem with racism.



Killer Bee raps, Raikage is loud, angry, and lost an arm over being an idiot.

Just wanna throw these out as stereotypes, which aren't much better.


----------



## makeoutparadise (Feb 24, 2013)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbud8rLejLM[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Palpatine (Feb 24, 2013)

This I why I get pissed off when weeaboos rip on America for it's racist past...


----------



## Yami Munesanzun (Feb 24, 2013)

SoleAccord said:


> Killer Bee raps, Raikage is loud, angry, and *lost an arm over being an idiot.*



don't see how this last part is racist. 

explain.


----------



## SoleAccord (Feb 24, 2013)

Yami Munesanzun said:


> don't see how this last part is racist.
> 
> explain.



I mean it as stereotypes, not necessarily 'racist'. 

Idiot = Unintelligent, basically letting his anger override any common logic. Why hit the guy with a shield of flames that never go out? He lost an arm and for what? Sasuke's still alive. So unnecessarily loud and angry, as well as really, really unintelligent.


----------



## TSC (Feb 24, 2013)

I had a Japanese friend growing up since preschool. We were best friends(but he died 4 years ago rip  ) I can assure you, through my experience whenever going to his place, that even Japanese-Americans(which my friend was, but his parents were born and raised in Japan though) here have a strong sense of cultural pride and love of their native origin(he went to Japanese school, buys the Japanese product way over the American ver. of the product, etc etc.). I can tell this thoroughly when visiting his place. Though I myself never been discriminate against from his family (although the oldest brother did have a sense superiority pride I remembered), I did recall from my friend telling me about his(or rather their) hatred for china.
We were at my house and he was telling me about how his mother went all of the world or something like that. Being ignorant  of world views at the time(we were about 6 or 7), I asked him if she ever visited China, and he freaked out going:

*"WHA? WE HATE CHINA!!!"*

So yeah. the racism thing is very embedded into Japan's culture whether they realize it or not. And remember this is coming from a Japanese American even.


----------



## GrimaH (Feb 24, 2013)

Hating China does not make them racist. Hating Chinese and discriminating against them does.


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## TSC (Feb 24, 2013)

GrimaH said:


> Hating China does not make them racist. Hating Chinese and discriminating against them does.



There were instances when he or someone in the family talked bad about Chineses and Koreans. i remember that and who knows what else they have said when speaking among each other in Japanese (they speak Japanese at home rather than English. Only speak English outside of the family).


----------



## Fruits Basket Fan (Feb 24, 2013)

Did you hear them called them sangokujin?


----------



## TSC (Feb 24, 2013)

Fruits Basket Fan said:


> Did you hear them called them sangokujin?



I don't remember.  This was a long time ago when I was like 5- 7 yrs old. I'm 25 now. So that's like a good 18 to 20 yrs ago. Also I'm hearing impaired so it makes hearing even their english pretty difficult. You can forget me being able hear any japanese well.

But I do recall some holding some sort of resentment on other Asians even those I wasnt too aware or put much thought and attention into it. I was more into their awesome exclusive japanese stuff they had that you could barely find or get in the U.S.(this was like in late 80's/early-mid 90's) like their kamen rider figurines, gundam models, etc


----------



## Blue_Panter_Ninja (Feb 24, 2013)

Bird of Paradise said:


> lol @ the fact that half this thread is blocked
> 
> It shows a stark contrast between a country (the USA) that has a fetish for self-depreciating and self-hating its own land, followed by a country (Japan) that only perfection and triumph can describe its country and population.


USA and Japan are twins


----------



## Sasuke_Bateman (Feb 24, 2013)

American's hate their country? That's one of the dumbest thing I have ever heard, in most of their films they like to tell the world how amazing America is and how great Americans are. What a load of rubbish


----------



## Mider T (Feb 24, 2013)

Yeah we don't hate our country (with the exception of Shinigami Perv), Sarahmint being Sarahmint again.


----------



## Ryuzaki (Feb 24, 2013)

Mael said:


> ^I'll debate that. * There's a pretty antagonistic view toward anyone of darker skin color in East Asian countries not to mention the glaring Han supremacist views in most of China*.  I've definitely heard and seen enough racist remarks toward Filipinos, Thai, Viet, etc., all because they're darker...and that's not even going into the feelings on South-Central Asians and blacks.
> 
> hcheng and kluang made some decent points about the Asian culture when it comes to things like this.
> 
> Face matters more than anything else, even the sense of rectifying errors.  Obviously such issues are no problem bringing up in Western countries but you might as well have murdered your family and friends if you bring up the glaring fault of your nation or people.


The part in bold is definitely present in Asian cultures, I can attest to that as I've seen it and heard about it on numerous occasions.


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## Lee-Sensei (Feb 24, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> --Deleted--



Why did you delete it?


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## Mael (Feb 24, 2013)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Why did you delete it?


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## Seto Kaiba (Feb 24, 2013)

Because he wanted people to be sympathetic with the shit he was spouting in response to the teacher's lecture and it backfired.


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## Mael (Feb 24, 2013)

Because DeDeMouse was so apologist about Japanese atrocities and East Asian racism that he'd demonize white Westerners any chance he could get unrelated to the topic at hand and everyone called him out on his bullshit.


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## Seto Kaiba (Feb 24, 2013)

> Miki Dezaki, who first arrived in Japan on a teacher exchange program in 2007, wanted to learn about the nation that his parents had once called home. He taught English, explored the country and affectionately chronicled his cross-cultural adventures on social media, most recently on YouTube, where he gained a small following for videos like ?Hitchhiking Okinawa? and the truly cringe-worthy ?What Americans think of Japan.? One of them, on the experience of being gay in Japan, attracted 75,000 views and dozens of thoughtful comments.
> 
> Dezaki didn?t think the reaction to his latest video was going to be any different, but he was wrong. ?If I should have anticipated something, I should have anticipated the netouyu,? he told me, referring to the informal army of young, hyper-nationalist Japanese Web users who tend to descend on any article ? or person ? they perceive as critical of Japan.
> 
> ...


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## Mizura (Feb 24, 2013)

> Nationalism is not unique to Japan, but it is strong there, tinged with the insecurity of a once-powerful nation on the decline


Lol, they'll keep declining at this rate.  You don't grow by ignoring every problem you have. Poor teacher though.


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## ShiggyDiggyDoo (Feb 24, 2013)

Mizura said:


> Lol, they'll keep declining at this rate.  You don't grow by ignoring every problem you have. Poor teacher though.


I honestly predict that by the time they figure this out, it'll be too late.

Japan has ignored the atrocities they have done for decades, after all.


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## DeDeMouse (Feb 25, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Because he wanted people to be sympathetic with the shit he was spouting in response to the teacher's lecture and it backfired.



Not really. People here seems comprehend the news rather different. But instead, using as opportunity to bash Asian as more racist race than their own race. I do ever live in English speaking country. So i knew very well who is more racist than who. This is an English site community after all. I should expect this before.


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## Arishem (Feb 25, 2013)

The issue isn't that there is more racism in Japan or other Asian countries; it's how that discrimination is treated. In many cases, a person can make a racist comment without fear of recrimination, and in others that kind of behavior is an acceptable social norm. My own country, America, has a terrible history regarding the treatment of minorities, but people can't go around making stupid comments in most of the US without expecting a fight or public humiliation - hell, I saw an old white woman get verbally shredded (more than half of the people shaming her were white) for calling a black family "a pack of uncivilized monkeys". A kid who told me "you have no heritage" for being mixed got dogpiled by the rest of our class. He didn't make any more comments like that to me or anyone else for the next few years we were in school together.

That being said, there are still many racists and other bigots here, but they only feel safe expressing that sentiment in their own insular, forgettable communities or in large gatherings. These groups even feel oppressed because they're losing their "country". The reality is that they probably are, as many Caucasians don't agree with their perspective and the growing non-white populations sure as hell don't. Progress is only made when people are called out on their shitty behavior, and anyone with open eyes can see that this isn't happening in many places.


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## Seto Kaiba (Feb 25, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> Not really. People here seems comprehend the news rather different. But instead, using as opportunity to bash Asian as more racist race than their own race. I do ever live in English speaking country. So i knew very well who is more racist than who. This is an English site community after all. I should expect this before.



I think it will be lost on you, but here it is again:



Seto Kaiba said:


> This is your problem or problems rather:
> 
> 1. Clearly any point everyone has addressed to you has gone over your head.
> 
> ...


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## very bored (Feb 25, 2013)

DeDeMouse said:


> Not really. People here seems comprehend the news rather different. But instead, using as opportunity to bash Asian as more racist race than their own race. I do ever live in English speaking country. *So i knew very well who is more racist than who. This is an English site community after all. I should expect this before.*



.............


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## Seto Kaiba (Feb 25, 2013)

very bored said:


> .............



He's already in a hole, he should just stop digging.


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## NO (Feb 25, 2013)

> "They're insane people." - Dezaki



Is he serious?


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## Lee-Sensei (Feb 25, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Because he wanted people to be sympathetic with the shit he was spouting in response to the teacher's lecture and it backfired.





> Because DeDeMouse was so apologist about Japanese atrocities and East Asian racism that he'd demonize white Westerners any chance he could get unrelated to the topic at hand and everyone called him out on his bullshit.



That's pathetic.

Racism in Japan is well documented. "No Gaijin Allowed" and all that.


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## DeDeMouse (Feb 25, 2013)

^
[YOUTUBE]N6vCjqJ9U7k[/YOUTUBE]


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## makeoutparadise (Feb 25, 2013)

A frog in a well knows nothing of the great ocean


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## very bored (Feb 25, 2013)

Miyamoto Musashi said:


> i don't genuinely think someone can be as dense a the guy above me
> it has to be some master level trolling, it has to be.



Look at his post history:  He's probably serious


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## Seto Kaiba (Feb 26, 2013)

[YOUTUBE]Ima17mX8_fU[/YOUTUBE]


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