# Doflamingo vs Madara vs Yhwach



## Kenzo (Jan 26, 2014)

Not sure if this is the right section but I was just wondering about peoples thoughts on the current villains for the big 3.

Who do you like the most out of the 3?


----------



## Magician (Jan 26, 2014)

Self explanatory.


----------



## Goomoonryong (Jan 26, 2014)

This isn't even close Doflamingo is superior in every way, maybe substitute Dofla for a OP villain whose closer in quality to the other two, like Hody Jones for example.


----------



## Hamtaro (Jan 26, 2014)

never read OP so voting madara


----------



## stream (Jan 26, 2014)

Madara is a lot more interesting to me because he has a long and complex backstory.
Doflamingo is a lot more generic as a villain: he has power, money, and no scruples. In Naruto, that would be barely the equivalent of Gato (rich evil corp boss in land of wave arc)... Who is already completely overshadowed by Zabuza.


----------



## Dellinger (Jan 26, 2014)

stream said:


> Madara is a lot more interesting to me because he has a long and complex backstory.
> Doflamingo is a lot more generic as a villain: he has power, money, and no scruples. In Naruto, that would be barely the equivalent of Gato (rich evil corp boss in land of wave arc)... Who is already completely overshadowed by Zabuza.



Doflamingo has a complex backstory too.

You don't just abandon the highest position in the world just like that.

Doflamingo has everything a villain needs while Madara on the other hand is just incredibly powerful.Nothing interesting at all.


----------



## Miyamoto Musashi (Jan 26, 2014)

Hmm... I wonder who I'll pick.


----------



## rajin (Jan 26, 2014)

my vote goes for uchiha madara because he is the creator of naruto manga series unlike other two.


----------



## Impact (Jan 26, 2014)

Doflamingo gets my vote.


----------



## tkpirate (Jan 26, 2014)

well,i think none of these 3 are good villains.it's all about personal preference.i prefer madara,because other 2 look very generic to me.


----------



## Viper (Jan 26, 2014)

stream said:


> Madara is a lot more interesting to me because he has a long and complex backstory.
> Doflamingo is a lot more generic as a villain: he has power, money, and no scruples. In Naruto, that would be barely the equivalent of Gato (rich evil corp boss in land of wave arc)... Who is already completely overshadowed by Zabuza.



I actually thought this post was sarcasm. Damn


----------



## Vermilion Kn (Jan 26, 2014)

Madara is about as interesting as a damp sock. 

He is overpowered as hell yet screws around for no fucking reason. There is just nothing to the guy. He doesn't stun me with extreme intelligence or combat prowess _(Seriously, this friend had all the best powers in the series dumped into him. That isn't impressive in my book, it's just stupid and cheap.)_ and I don't even get a rise out of his evilness because he is a stoic bastard with no personality.  

I view him as an asspull machine with legs since he pulls shit out of nowhere rendering w/e the opposition throws at him moot.


----------



## Tapion (Jan 26, 2014)

tkpirate said:


> well,i think none of these 3 are good villains.it's all about personal preference.i prefer madara,because other 2 look very generic to me.



Dolfa and Juha more generic than madara? 

he's basically sasuke with longer hair and hashirama armor.


----------



## tkpirate (Jan 26, 2014)

Starraver said:


> Dolfa and Juha more generic than madara?
> 
> he's basically sasuke with longer hair and hashirama armor.



yes.i don't see a valid reason for their villainy.they both have some selfish reason for it.as i said madara isn't a good villain either,but i find him little better than other two.almost all HST villains are shit tier anyways.


----------



## Xeogran (Jan 26, 2014)

My vote made Doflamingo get the first spot. 
I'm proud of myself


----------



## Sir Vaalor (Jan 26, 2014)

I would say that Madara is the worst villain I ever saw... if it wasn't Obito from the same series. Compared to him, Madara is god tier. But Yhwach and Doflamingo are superior. Voted for Yhwach because I like his design more.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Jan 26, 2014)

They are all shit.


----------



## Magician (Jan 26, 2014)

tkpirate said:


> yes.i don't see a valid reason for their villainy.they both have some selfish reason for it.as i said madara isn't a good villain either,but i find him little better than other two.almost all HST villains are shit tier anyways.



Almost all OP villains are quality.

You don't know what your talking about.


----------



## Patrick (Jan 26, 2014)

The thing is that we're talking about Naruto's and Bleach's main villain at this point. While Doflamingo isn't even close to main villain. 

I do enjoy Doflamingo the most, but that could be due to the fact that I heavily favor One Piece over the other two.


----------



## Xeogran (Jan 26, 2014)

patrick4life said:


> The thing is that we're talking about Naruto's and Bleach's main villain at this point.



Probably not for both.


----------



## stream (Jan 26, 2014)

Viper said:


> I actually thought this post was sarcasm. Damn



Well, no. Madara was the head of his clan, allied himself with the Senju partly because Hashirama had been his friend, cofounded Konoha, ended up losing his brother, was the reason the kyuubi attacked the village and Naruto became a jinchuuriki. He's a semi-mythical character who started from zero and shaped the whole world of Naruto. Without him, the manga wouldn't exist.

In comparison, Doflamingo could basically not exist without much change to the world of OP, and he was fairly unimportant to the story until chapter 600. Story-wise, he's a mid-boss. The main reason he's powerful is that he was born into it. And as far as I can see, his only motivation seems to be the lulz.



Starraver said:


> he's basically sasuke with longer hair and hashirama armor.


Maybe... But Sasuke himself, despite being a whiny emo bitch we all love to hate, is somewhat original as a character.


----------



## Grimm6Jack (Jan 26, 2014)

Which one do I like more? Yhwack...

Which one is the better villain? I would have to go with Dofla since Madara is kinda meh and Yhwack has still a lot of unknowns surrounding him at this point.


----------



## Vermilion Kn (Jan 26, 2014)

> Doflamingo could basically not exist without much change to the world of OP



The fuck are you talking about ?

Aside from being a king doflamingo supplies countries around the world with weapons and even provides services for the Emperors. Taking him down is going to buck the system big time in the OPverse, so how exactly would things not change much if he wasn't around ?



> and he was fairly unimportant to the story until chapter 600. Story-wise,



And ? Madara wasn't important from the Get-go either. He plays an essential role in the Nardo universe as Doflamingo does in the Opverse, and both got the spotlight in the right time. 



> The main reason he's powerful is that he was born into it



Lol, Ok. Now i Know you don't know what you're talking about. It was explicitly said in the manga that he went against the Celestial dragons/WG so there was no nepotism here. He became powerful by being an cunning, evil bastard. 



> And as far as I can see, his only motivation seems to be the lulz.



Unless you can see into the future that statement has 0 value as his back story has yet to be revealed.


----------



## egressmadara (Jan 26, 2014)

Dofla is cooler and I rather hang with him.
Bach is more...villany.


----------



## Black Mirror (Jan 26, 2014)

This doesn't need a vote. Dofla owns.  @Narutards, they still exist oO


----------



## Lord Hirako (Jan 26, 2014)

Ywach more ruthless,Better prescense,More interesting Past and dat Cape 

Doflamingo is interesting but not has much as Ywach  and Madara is just an Overpowered Sasuke.


----------



## Cheeky (Jan 26, 2014)

Doflamingo. Although Buckbeard is getting some good development now.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jan 26, 2014)

Doflamingo>Madara>Yhwach.

When all is said in done.

Doflamingo>>>>>>Yhwach>>>Madara.


----------



## Grimm6Jack (Jan 26, 2014)

Narutards wank Madara when they are not supposed to.
OPtdars wank Doflamingo more than he deserves.

Same old, same old. :/


----------



## Chad (Jan 26, 2014)

Grimm said:


> Narutards wank Madara when they are not supposed to.
> OPtdars wank Doflamingo more than he deserves.
> 
> Same old, same old. :/



100% true. Doflamingo is evil and all, but he can get severely overrated by the OP fanbase who say that he's a perfect villain.

At the end of the day, Hunter Hunter villains >>> HST villains.


----------



## Vermilion Kn (Jan 26, 2014)

I don't see any wank. 

Jesus, can't you people argue something without this hipster wanna be stance BS ?


----------



## Rax (Jan 26, 2014)

Hanging out with Juha might give me a chance to talk to Bambietta, so I'm picking him.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 12 (4 members and 8 guests)
Red Hero, *Jet Pistol+*

Well well


----------



## Grimm6Jack (Jan 26, 2014)

Even Fairy Tail has better villains than Madara...


----------



## Rax (Jan 26, 2014)

It has better villains than Bleach too


----------



## Cheeky (Jan 26, 2014)

YYH villains >


----------



## Rax (Jan 26, 2014)

Cheeky said:


> YYH villains >



[YOUTUBE]qp2HUKwsVSM[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Chad (Jan 26, 2014)

Grimm said:


> Even Fairy Tail has better villains than Madara...



Ok, let's not go over board.


----------



## B Rabbit (Jan 26, 2014)

No one's wanking Doflamingo. He's more interesting that Madara.

I find it hilarious that a half way mark villain is being compared and being said to be better than two final series villains. 

Although EoS villains, Blackbeard will take it.


----------



## Magician (Jan 26, 2014)

Grimm said:


> Even Fairy Tail has better villains than Madara...



Pffttt...**


----------



## Grimm6Jack (Jan 26, 2014)

Red Hero said:


> It has better villains than Bleach too



Well, better than Madara in FT I only see 1 villain, Hades... The rest... all shit. F. Rogue kinda had potential as the arc was progressing but after his defeat, it ruined him. None of them are even close to Yhwack or Aizen. These two are still better than Madara.


----------



## Tapion (Jan 26, 2014)

Dofla is pretty uninteresting tbh...sans his situation with that yonko who's name eludes me.

I like his design tho....and his smile..its almost urogue tier....almost.


----------



## Rax (Jan 26, 2014)

I don't like how Dofla is always smiling with a giant vein on his head.


----------



## Tapion (Jan 26, 2014)

I like how it intensifies when he's pissed.


----------



## Viper (Jan 26, 2014)

stream said:


> Well, no. Madara was the head of his clan, allied himself with the Senju partly because Hashirama had been his friend, cofounded Konoha, ended up losing his brother, was the reason the kyuubi attacked the village and Naruto became a jinchuuriki. He's a semi-mythical character who started from zero and shaped the whole world of Naruto. Without him, the manga wouldn't exist.
> 
> In comparison, Doflamingo could basically not exist without much change to the world of OP, and he was fairly unimportant to the story until chapter 600. Story-wise, he's a mid-boss. The main reason he's powerful is that he was born into it. And as far as I can see, his only motivation seems to be the lulz.


So what you're saying is... 
He's not relevant to the military structure of the allied countries to dressrosa
He's not relevant to the strength and general make up of Kaido's army
He's not the reason for the human slave auction
He's not the leading underground merchant and kingpin
He's not the reason for a trend in the new era of pirates
He's not relevant to the celestial dragons nor does he have a backsory indicating so.

Not to mention his backstory still hasn't been fully explained leaving anticipation and mystery to his character

No he's not relevant at all.


----------



## Viper (Jan 26, 2014)

Madara who's so much stronger than the entire verse in strength is so much more interesting.

Living under a bunch of rocks, mad at hashirama for such trivial reasons... great backstory, great villain


----------



## tkpirate (Jan 26, 2014)

♦Young Master♦ said:


> Almost all OP villains are quality.
> 
> You don't know what your talking about.



well,you may like something but it dosen't mean it's good.though i also think one piece villains (not all but some) are slightly better.akainu is my most favorite villain in HST.and i think he is the only decent villain in HST.


----------



## stream (Jan 27, 2014)

Viper said:


> So what you're saying is...
> He's not relevant to the military structure of the allied countries to dressrosa
> He's not relevant to the strength and general make up of Kaido's army
> He's not the reason for the human slave auction
> ...


Half of these are only relevant to the current arc, not the whole story. Doflamingo is in fact a subordinate of a bigger boss.

Let's say if Doflamingo is revealed to be the guy who organized the world government and he was somehow personally the cause of Gol D Roger getting executed and starting the Great Age of Pirates, _then_ he would have in One Piece's world the importance that Madara has in Naruto's world. Oh, and he also needs to be the final big boss of the whole manga.


----------



## Snowless (Jan 27, 2014)

I think it's a little sad it's this close.
Doflamingo is one my favorite villains in all shonen.


He's interesting. He clearly cares for his crew in a way that most villains don't (this has been seen with Vergo, Monet, and Jora), but is also clearly a depraved bastard. 
He has a unique ability that's he's pushed to its limits. It's not inherently an overpowering ability, but he's taken it to new heights. A normal person who gets a string string fruit isn't going to think that he should attach his strings to people to control them.
He's very vital to many things in the world. His contacts with underground brokers, his effect against the revolutionaries' goals, his bolstering of Kaido. 
His backstory is going to interesting, as well. In some ways, he parallels Sabo. He was born into great wealth and affluence, but cast it all aside to go be a pirate. But in many ways, he's the antithesis of the main characters. Yet, he wants to be Pirate King, just like Luffy.
Also, his jolly roger. I want to know what it means. The era of smiles, the new age, all of the stuff he's always talking about. I want to know what it all means (if the era of smiles extends beyond an implicit artificial zoan reference). And Law's jolly roger is just a not crossed out version of Dofla's, so their relationship was clearly thought of beforehand, which really makes me want to know his backstory and how they connect. It baffles me how anyone could think Dofla is generic. It's been heavily implied that his backstory is important.
And just as a character, he's intriguing. He's not scared to clash with admirals. He's one of the most cunning villains we've seen. He's just entertaining.


Now, I'm saying Madara is shit or anything. He's a cooler and a better villain than Tobi turned out to be. But he's also at that annoying level where's he too strong. And beyond his overarching, vague plot importance, he's just not as interesting as a character.

And Ywach seems to be a better villain that Aizen turned out to be, as well. But I'd cite the same arguments as I just used on Madara.

I don't dislike either of them. I just really like Dofla, who's one of the best villains in OP.


----------



## Zuhaitz (Jan 27, 2014)

Viper said:


> Madara who's so much stronger than the entire verse in strength is so much more interesting.
> 
> Living under a bunch of rocks, mad at hashirama for such trivial reasons... great backstory, great villain



Losing his brother and his clan is trivial to you?

Madara does have a great backstory. 

He was a child who learned what war and death is from a young age. His only not blood related friend, with who he was planning a way to create a new world end up being his greatest rival and they had to pass their youth fighting to death. 

He tried his best to keep up with his friends power, getting stronger and stronger sacrificing everything he had dear so he could protect his brother, and he became so powerful that he became the leader of his clan just to see how It slowly lose the war against his friend's clan. In the end he had to lose his brother before Hashirama proposed peace. 

He had to contain all the hate he had for the sake of his clan and he created the first village, just to see how his clan was getting weaker and less relevant in the village he funded. In the end after his friends, his clan mates and all the people he had dear and for who he had sacrificed everything betrayed him, he gave up in the real world. Probably influenced by what he read about Hogoromo (Rikudo Senin) and he made up his mind and planned to create a perfect world.

Madara isn't a villian per se. He is trying to save the world, he is more an anti hero.


----------



## Shrike (Jan 27, 2014)

Is this thread for real? 

Moreover, is this poll result for real? 

I understand that tastes are everything, but if we are talking about quality here...


----------



## eyeknockout (Jan 27, 2014)

Vermilion Kn said:


> Madara is about as interesting as a damp sock.
> 
> *He is overpowered as hell yet screws around for no fucking reason. There is just nothing to the guy. He doesn't stun me with extreme intelligence or combat prowess (Seriously, this friend had all the best powers in the series dumped into him. That isn't impressive in my book*_, it's just stupid and cheap.)_ and I don't even get a rise out of his evilness because he is a stoic bastard with no personality.
> 
> I view him as an asspull machine with legs since he pulls shit out of nowhere rendering w/e the opposition throws at him moot.



This is exactly what i started to feel with madara, he got boring very fast because he plays around too much, but not the playing around that is fun to watch, but the type where the entire time you're saying "he has no reason to be wasting time and holding back, so why is he, how is he geting outsmarted by everyone when he's leagues above them and supposedly an all knowing ninja with unparralleled fighting experience?". 

Not even to mention the fact that he randomly gets stronger with one eye of rinnegan then obito could with rinnegan and the juubi. 

So yeah i'll go with dofla because he's the only character that i don't want one shotted. for example, i'd be happy if someone like itachi one shotted madara, i'd be happy if someone like kenpachi one shotted ywach, but i would't be happy if someone one shotted doflamingo (except MAYBE Whitebeard)


----------



## OS (Jan 27, 2014)

Rachel from ToG just because she will get you mad.


----------



## Akatora (Jan 27, 2014)

No surprise for me to go with Yhwach 

Madara sounds like the classic destroy everything to rule the world
Dofla is a lunatic, which is nice but not much more from what i've heard.
Yhwach life is pretty much lend a hand and take back an arm


----------



## Edward Newgate (Jan 27, 2014)

Doffy's background is FAR more interesting than those two.


----------



## Cheeky (Jan 27, 2014)

Zenith said:


> [sp=I don't know how to use tags][/sp]
> 
> seriously



Seemed relevant.


----------



## Lord Hirako (Jan 27, 2014)

Even Grand fisher and axe Morgan are more interesting  than madara


----------



## Grimm6Jack (Jan 27, 2014)

... this poll... ... ... ...


----------



## Morgan (Jan 27, 2014)

"This is the era of SMILES"~ Doflamingo
I just can't figure this character out- his actions and his speeches. Right now, there's not a villain more interesting. And he makes pink feathers look badass


----------



## Dellinger (Jan 27, 2014)

stream said:


> Half of these are only relevant to the current arc, not the whole story. Doflamingo is in fact a subordinate of a bigger boss.
> 
> Let's say if Doflamingo is revealed to be the guy who organized the world government and he was somehow personally the cause of Gol D Roger getting executed and starting the Great Age of Pirates, _then_ he would have in One Piece's world the importance that Madara has in Naruto's world. Oh, and he also needs to be the final big boss of the whole manga.



Doflamingo isn't a subordinate of anyone.He's doing business with people and has his own goals.

And even if he isn't as important as Madara is to the Nardo world (final enemy)that doesn't change the fact that with every appearance he makes the manga moves forward and he always has awesome moments.

He was the first to mention the New Era,a pirate that his status is only inferior to the Yonko etc.And there's still more to this guy.

Doflamingo is a major character in the world of OP whether you like it or not.


----------



## Black Mirror (Jan 27, 2014)

please tell me 1 guy made 39 dupe accounts to vote for madara... would be less disturbing


----------



## B Rabbit (Jan 27, 2014)

Pretty sure. Naruto fans are known for doing that in this section. Remember the 2012 poll?


----------



## wibisana (Jan 27, 2014)

Black Mirror said:


> please tell me 1 guy made 39 dupe accounts to vote for madara... would be less disturbing



lol as i suspected, most of them are dupe
though I rarely visit Ohara L, I knew/recognize some of OP fans.
but names who votes madara doesn't even a days old. or even active in KL


----------



## B Rabbit (Jan 27, 2014)

I like Buckbeard though, his whole thing is really interesting. 

To be fair, if I was a bigger Bleach fan I'll be a bigger fan of him then Doflamingo, but Bleach is losing my interest along with Naruto so, I put them on hold, both series are better if you read the chapters in bulk.


----------



## Snowless (Jan 27, 2014)

For what it's worth, I just counted, and 27 of the Madara votes are dupe votes.


----------



## Sablés (Jan 27, 2014)

That's pretty fucking pathetic.


----------



## Snowless (Jan 27, 2014)

It also means Yhwach is beating Madara by 2 votes.


----------



## Ero Grimmy (Jan 27, 2014)

stream said:


> Well, no. Madara was the head of his clan, allied himself with the Senju partly because Hashirama had been his friend, cofounded Konoha, ended up losing his brother, was the reason the kyuubi attacked the village and Naruto became a jinchuuriki. He's a semi-mythical character who started from zero and shaped the whole world of Naruto. Without him, the manga wouldn't exist.
> .



And here I was thinking the one that shaped the Narutoverse was Rikudou Sennin, hell maybe he is the final villain, and to be more precise manga could have easily exist without Madara, it could not existed without  Kishimoto, Minato, Kushina *as parents to the main character in case that was not clear*  however this doesn't qualify them directly for Best villain award!


----------



## BashFace (Jan 27, 2014)

Madara... I can only see one way.


----------



## Nikushimi (Jan 27, 2014)

Yhwach/Juhabach/Youwashock is just laughably terrible in every way.

Madara is a shit character, but has succeeded in making his manga still worth reading, which I had thought was impossible after Obito took the reigns. He has some decent moments.

I don't really read One Piece, but Doflamingo seems like a pretty decent villain (granted, I'm not up-to-date with the story at all).


----------



## B Rabbit (Jan 27, 2014)

Catch up, now.


----------



## OS (Jan 27, 2014)

You can start in march and catch up in like a day. Nothing interesting atm imo.


oh wait, nvr mind. Seems like a big reveal next chapter.


----------



## B Rabbit (Jan 27, 2014)

^ That post is the worst post in the thread.


----------



## stream (Jan 28, 2014)

Ero Grimmy said:


> and to be more precise manga could have easily exist without Madara



Madara was the reason the kyuubi attacked Konoha on the day Naruto was born. He is directly responsible for Naruto growing up without parents, hated by the whole village for being a jinchuuriki. You take that out, there's nothing much left of the manga.


----------



## Ero Grimmy (Jan 28, 2014)

Take Madara's brother out *hence him not dying*, nothing left in the manga, your point is invalid...


----------



## A Optimistic (Jan 28, 2014)

stream said:


> Madara was the reason the kyuubi attacked Konoha on the day Naruto was born. He is directly responsible for Naruto growing up without parents, hated by the whole village for being a jinchuuriki. You take that out, there's nothing much left of the manga.



I think you're confusing Madara with Tobi.

Madara was dead when that happened.


----------



## Grimm6Jack (Jan 28, 2014)

Ero Grimmy said:


> Take Madara's brother out *hence him not dying*, nothing left in the manga, your point is invalid...



stream, if you still don't get the point this dude here^ is making then please... shut up.


----------



## A Optimistic (Jan 28, 2014)

Dofla > Madara >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Juha Bach


----------



## stream (Jan 28, 2014)

Grimm said:


> stream, if you still don't get the point this dude here^ is making then please... shut up.



That's sophistry. You might as well say that if any of these guys' mothers had died before giving birth they would not have existed. My point is, what are the _actions_ of the characters which had an influence on the world.

Let me put this simply: Write everything you know about Doflamingo. All the facts. All you know about his past. Now do the same for Madara. You will find that Madara has a much greater backstory? Even though he has been absent for most of the manga!

Yeah, yeah, we don't know _yet_ about Doflamingo's past. Maybe he will have a great incredible backstory? Maybe! And maybe not.


----------



## Ero Grimmy (Jan 28, 2014)

^ oH god  stream you are right, Madara is the best villain and is the most influential manga character in history, hell I think all new mangas are solely based on him!


----------



## Dellinger (Jan 28, 2014)

This guy reminds me of the dude who tried to make Bleach look like some great literature work.


----------



## Chad (Jan 28, 2014)

All 3 have their pros and cons, but at the end of the day they are all HST villains.


----------



## Zyrax (Jan 28, 2014)

From the way I see it Madara=Bane and Doflamingo=Joker


----------



## stream (Jan 28, 2014)

Ero Grimmy said:


> ^ oH god  stream you are right, Madara is the best villain and is the most influential manga character in history, hell I think all new mangas are solely based on him!



Oh no, I never said that. It's just that Madara wants to destroy the world, and Dofla is apparently just in it for the lulz and the money. Madara literally has the world united against him, and so far he's winning; while apparently Dofla is running errands for Kaido, and is afraid of him? See what I mean?


----------



## Chad (Jan 28, 2014)

stream said:


> Oh no, I never said that. It's just that Madara wants to destroy the world, and Dofla is apparently just in it for the lulz and the money. Madara literally has the world united against him, and so far he's winning; while apparently Dofla is running errands for Kaido, and is afraid of him? See what I mean?



He also somewhat pussied out from fighting Kuzan. That wasn't what I expected for someone who's basically a recycled Crocodile.


----------



## wibisana (Jan 28, 2014)

stream said:


> Oh no, I never said that. It's just that Madara wants to destroy the world, and Dofla is apparently just in it for the lulz and the money. Madara literally has the world united against him, and so far he's winning; while apparently Dofla is running errands for Kaido, and is afraid of him? See what I mean?



you see Joker is good villain in Batman (he dont wanna conquer the world)
while Galactus whan to eat planets, conquer galaxy.

bigger ambition =/= better villain


----------



## Powerful Lord (Jan 28, 2014)

That doesn't make him a better villain, Juha Bach is literally fighting the heavens for the fate of existence, if it only came to the biggest scale stakes then he would win this.


----------



## Dellinger (Jan 28, 2014)

Astral said:


> He also somewhat pussied out from fighting Kuzan. That wasn't what I expected for someone who's basically a recycled Crocodile.



They're totally different...



stream said:


> Oh no, I never said that. It's just that Madara wants to destroy the world, and Dofla is apparently just in it for the lulz and the money. Madara literally has the world united against him, and so far he's winning; while apparently Dofla is running errands for Kaido, and is afraid of him? See what I mean?



What lulz?Monet gave a hint that Doflamingo to aspires to become Pirate King.
There's still much more to his character and yet he is more interesting than Madara.

And he's business partners with Kaido.He supplies Kaido with the fruits and in return Kaido is making weapons for him to sell in the underground.


----------



## Zyrax (Jan 28, 2014)

better motives =/= Better Villain


----------



## Vermilion Kn (Jan 28, 2014)

> Dofla is apparently just in it for the lulz and the money



Again, unless you are psychic you can't make that claim. Dofla's past  has yet to be revealed, but why is wanting money, power and fame a bad thing ?

It all depends on how it is delivered. Madara is the biggest threat to the Nardoverse on paper, but the delivery is disjointed. It's hard to care about a bunch of blank characters whose only purpose is to follow the shining light at the top of the eyeball tree, Aka Jesuto. A bunch of big names came together just flounder in Nardo's wake, and while he is the main character everything leading up to it was poorly done. 

Naruto will be the savior of the world while having almost no knowledge of the world around him. He doesn't know jack shit about the other villages yet we're supposed to accept that he'll come up with some ultimate answer to end a system that has been in place for ages. No amount of explosions can make up for that, and it is inexcusable for a final arc. 

In contrast, DressRoa, a much more simplistic arc already has a better delivery. Doflamingo is not one of the top dogs in the world yet he is moving said world for the simple fact that he is the person others come too when they need something shady done. Look at all the connections to Doflamingo from the player involved:

-Law wants revenge for a loved one.
-Kaidou still needs smile and can't afford to have Dofla's operation be dismantled.
-Luffy wants Ace's fruit, wants to free the Tontata and kick Dofla's ass for nearly killing Law.
-Big Mam wants Ceaser.
-The Revs are here for the fruit and to liberate the country.
-Fujitora wants to abolish the SB system because of the type of shit Dofla pulled. 
-The Colosseum fighters will want revenge for being turned into toys.
-Rebecca. Violet, The ex-king and the Tontata's plot lines. 

All of those things go back to Donflamingo making the events much more alive than just following this 1 kid and hoping for victory while simultaneously not adding jack to the fight. One might ask what that has to do with Madara, and I respond with everything happening in the fourth ninja war will affect how the villain is viewed as well. A bunch of nameless, no development characters following ninja jesus against a character so overpowered and flawless that the only way he can fall is through some BS means. 

Dofla is powerful but he is also flawed like any human being. He feels fear and worries about his ass being on the line, and him being taken down is the culmination of what Law was talking about when he mentioned the big dogs just sitting on their thrones doing nothing thinking no one will ever some for their heads. He has a personality which makes him more dynamic and fun to watch than some dude who is about as interesting as a moldy tree trunk and shows no emotion since his bag of asspulls is infinite.


----------



## Powerful Lord (Jan 28, 2014)

Dofla is more interesting, there are similarities between Alabasta and Dressrosa arcs, but the villains are not it.


----------



## Ero Grimmy (Jan 28, 2014)

Vermilion solos


----------



## Nikushimi (Jan 28, 2014)

stream said:


> Madara was the reason the kyuubi attacked Konoha on the day Naruto was born. He is directly responsible for Naruto growing up without parents, hated by the whole village for being a jinchuuriki. You take that out, there's nothing much left of the manga.



That was Obito, not Madara.

Take Madara out and give Obito a different catalyst to the Dark Side and you still have the same events playing out, unchanged.



Ero Grimmy said:


> Take Madara's brother out *hence him not dying*, nothing left in the manga, your point is invalid...



These are both arguments from origin...

It's like saying the Rikudou Sennin's mother is the most important character in the manga even though she's appeared as a cave drawing in exactly one panel; just because someone comes first and their actions snowball into something more significant doesn't mean they were important to the story--it's the characters with active involvement in the story who execute and undergo these changes that are important.

Now, nobody in their right mind can deny that Madara has been important, but is he strictly necessary? Is his role even strictly necessary? I would say not; everything happening now could've just as easily been handed over to Obito (or preferrably anyone else). I'd say the same of Rinnegan, the Rikudou Sennin, the Shinju tree, the prophecy... It all could've been scrapped and we could still have come to this point in the story (or preferably anything else). That doesn't mean these things lack importance--it just means that their importance is not unique or necessary.


----------



## egressmadara (Jan 28, 2014)

Dofla has the swaggiest hair.


----------



## OmniOmega (Jan 28, 2014)

On one hand, Madara gave me the option to stop reading Naruto and just imagine that both and Sasuke died off, but on another hand Doflamingo is actually a good character who I like reading about.
Really Wan Piss villans are too quality


----------



## B Rabbit (Jan 28, 2014)

Can someone explain to me why people think Doflamingo is like Crocodile. 

I see some trolls point it out, but they never explain how.


----------



## Snowless (Jan 28, 2014)

B Rabbit said:


> Can someone explain to me why people think Doflamingo is like Crocodile.
> 
> I see some trolls point it out, but they never explain how.



I suppose it's because they're both fearless badass characters who are the heads of organizations and warlords.

They're more distinct once you get actually get into their characters, but I could see somebody pointing out a resemblance at first glance.


----------



## Hamtaro (Jan 28, 2014)

Juha has the best beard


----------



## Ero Grimmy (Jan 28, 2014)

HamSloth said:


> Juha has the best beard



Say whaaaaaaaaaaat?


----------



## tkpirate (Jan 29, 2014)

Ero Grimmy said:


> Take Madara's brother out *hence him not dying*, nothing left in the manga, your point is invalid...



izuna's death was one reason.madara has more reason for doing,what he is doing.actually izuna's death isn't the main reason either.so your point is invalid.


----------



## tkpirate (Jan 29, 2014)

Ero Grimmy said:


> manga could have easily exist without Madara,



without madara there would be no Tobi and no Pain.so what you're saying is completely wrong.


----------



## tkpirate (Jan 29, 2014)

Avalon said:


> I think you're confusing Madara with Tobi.
> 
> Madara was dead when that happened.



he is actually right though.without madara there would be no Tobi either.


----------



## wibisana (Jan 29, 2014)

tkpirate said:


> he is actually right though.without madara there would be no Tobi either.



nope the plot can actually totally different.
Tobi is not Obito and Madara didn't exist.

the plot we have right now have so much plot holes


----------



## tkpirate (Jan 29, 2014)

wibisana said:


> nope the plot can actually totally different.
> Tobi is not Obito and Madara didn't exist.
> 
> the plot we have right now have so much plot holes



well,what you're saying it dosen't matter.we're talking about current plot.we are not talking about fanfictions.and in this plot,there would be no Tobi without madara, no Pain.and there would be no 4th ninja world war either.


----------



## Powerful Lord (Jan 29, 2014)

Up until recently the manga worked without Madara, so no, he's not necessary at all, replace him with any other "big bad" and the plot wouldn't be very different, i would probably not be such a mess in fact.


----------



## tkpirate (Jan 29, 2014)

Powerful Lord said:


> Up until recently the manga worked without Madara, so no, he's not necessary at all, replace him with any other "big bad" and the plot wouldn't be very different, i would probably not be such a mess in fact.



no without madara this manga wouldn't work at all.you probably don't read it,so you don't know.


----------



## Powerful Lord (Jan 29, 2014)

I do read it, been following it for a long time, so don't insinuate you know things i do not. And yes, without Madara the manga would have worked, it tells you something when the best part of the manga were the first 27 volumes, when Madara was still not around.


----------



## Ero Grimmy (Jan 29, 2014)

What POwerful Lord just said, and with all your arguments tkpirate, my point was clear that you can't credit Madara for the whole Narutoverse, but apparently you want to do that... Like someone on the previous page said bigger ambition or bigger plans to destroy the world =/= better villain. Dofla is not the best villain ever and he does not have the biggest most utterly important actions within OP but he is better than the other 2 mentioned in this thread. If you fail to see that and just bring arguments to previously sarcastic points that I said, well I have bad news for you,you're Naruto fanboy or your manga standards are quite low.


----------



## tkpirate (Jan 29, 2014)

Powerful Lord said:


> I do read it, been following it for a long time, so don't insinuate you know things i do not. And yes, without Madara the manga would have worked, it tells you something when the best part of the manga were the first 27 volumes, when Madara was still not around.



madara wasn't physically present,but his works were there from chapter 1.as i said there would be no Tobi without madara.and that means naruto's parents would be alive too.there would be no story of naruto without madara,


----------



## Powerful Lord (Jan 29, 2014)

In those volumes we didn't know that, up until volumes 50 we only knew there was a guy named Tobi who made some of this shit happen. You're looking the at the manga already as a whole, instead of analysing how it goes as the story progresses, you really think that Kishi allways had Madara in mind? Since the very first chapter? You're seriously foolish if you really think that Kishi planned Madara and Tobi as the main villains from the very begining.


----------



## tkpirate (Jan 29, 2014)

Ero Grimmy said:


> What POwerful Lord just said, and with all your arguments tkpirate, my point was clear that you can't credit Madara for the whole Narutoverse, but apparently you want to do that... Like someone on the previous page said bigger ambition or bigger plans to destroy the world =/= better villain. Dofla is not the best villain ever and he does not have the biggest most utterly important actions within OP but he is better than the other 2 mentioned in this thread. If you fail to see that and just bring arguments to previously sarcastic points that I said, well I have bad news for you,you're Naruto fanboy or your manga standards are quite low.



i'm not crediting madara.i'm just stating obvious facts,that are shown in the manga.because i saw you say something wrong.and i don't wan't to go into this who better than whom again.as i said i think none of these characters are even decent.i'm not a naruto fanboy and naruto isn't my manga.but i will correct people if i see them saying obvious things wrong.


----------



## tkpirate (Jan 29, 2014)

Powerful Lord said:


> In those volumes we didn't know that, up until volumes 50 we only knew there was a guy named Tobi who made some of this shit happen. You're looking the at the manga already as a whole, instead of analysing how it goes as the story progresses, you really think that Kishi allways had Madara in mind? Since the very first chapter? You're seriously foolish if you really think that Kishi planned Madara and Tobi as the main villains from the very begining.



it dosen't matter if we knew it before or not,and it dosen't matter if kishi planed it or not.we now know who was behind everything.and it's all that matters.and be carefull with your words.


----------



## Powerful Lord (Jan 29, 2014)

You're not looking at his role in the contest of the plot itself, he's not saying that inside the presently extablished Naruto Universe, Madara is not important, just that any other villain could have easily filled the same role had he been given as many asspulls and plot shields. Look at volume 30, there wasn't any sign of Madara besides an old statue, the plot was moving forward without the need of his character's presence, you could have letted everything move on without having such a revelation.

It's as if it was suddenly revealed that in our present world, every war is happening because Hittler is actually alive and manipulating events.


----------



## Powerful Lord (Jan 29, 2014)

tkpirate said:


> it dosen't matter if we knew it before or not,and it dosen't matter if kishi planed it or not.we now know who was behind everything.and it's all that matters.and be carefull with your words.



As a tale, Naruto simply didn't need Madara, it was a plot moving forward, just because there was a twist that "reveals everything ", it doesn't mean that it's any good or that it needed to happen.


----------



## Ero Grimmy (Jan 29, 2014)

I replied with sarcasm toward stream, as he considered Madara the foundation of everything in Naruto, which I had to disagree, I know that after Izuna died they made peace bla bla build a village bla bla damn tobirama bla bla naka shrine let's turn evil, but that was also a building point in creating Madara's personality that's why I mentioned the Izuna fact. For me Madara is just meh, this is just a taste preference but I liked way more Orochimaru, in his good days, now he isn't even worth mentioning. Glad you're not a Naruto fanboy


----------



## Tapion (Jan 29, 2014)

manga would have worked out just fine without "real" madara and obito, In fact it would have probably been better.


----------



## Ero Grimmy (Jan 29, 2014)

Starraver said:


> manga would have worked out just fine without "real" madara and obito, In fact it would have probably been better.



At least I am not the only one that thinks like this. For me this manga turned into a joke one after Tobi=Obito


----------



## tkpirate (Jan 29, 2014)

Powerful Lord said:


> You're not looking at his role in the contest of the plot itself, he's not saying that inside the presently extablished Naruto Universe, Madara is not important, just that any other villain could have easily filled the same role had he been given as many asspulls and plot shields. Look at volume 30, there wasn't any sign of Madara besides an old statue, the plot was moving forward without the need of his character's presence, you could have letted everything move on without having such a revelation.
> 
> It's as if it was suddenly revealed that in our present world, every war is happening because Hittler is actually alive and manipulating events.



what you're saying dosen't make any sense.any other villain couldn't have filled madara's role.and what 'COULD HAVE' dosen't matter.what 'IT IS' matters.as i said without madara every event in narutoverse from chapter 1 would be different.


----------



## Powerful Lord (Jan 29, 2014)

You're seriously missing the point here. The manga turned into a joke once Madara was revealed as the "source of all evil" and when he came back to life. Though i wouldn't completelly say it was his fault, the manga has been going downhill since Naruto's bullshit evolution with shadow clones and when him and Shikamaru took out Hidan and Kakuzu alone respectivelly.


----------



## tkpirate (Jan 29, 2014)

Powerful Lord said:


> As a tale, Naruto simply didn't need Madara, it was a plot moving forward, just because there was a twist that "reveals everything ", it doesn't mean that it's any good or that it needed to happen.



without those ''reveals'' the story of naruto wouldn't make sense,and there would be more plot holes.it dosen't matter if you think it was needed or not.what matters is it did happen and noone can ignore it.


----------



## tkpirate (Jan 29, 2014)

Powerful Lord said:


> You're seriously missing the point here. The manga turned into a joke once Madara was revealed as the "source of all evil" and when he came back to life. Though i wouldn't completelly say it was his fault, the manga has been going downhill since Naruto's bullshit evolution with shadow clones and when him and Shikamaru took out Hidan and Kakuzu alone respectivelly.



again you're saying something that is wrong.manga went downhill because of obito not madara.the manga is currently readable because of madara.and naruto didn't took out kakuzu alone either.


----------



## Powerful Lord (Jan 29, 2014)

How so? Couldn't there have been better reveals? I mean, we don't need the Uchihas to be the front and center of the Naruto Universe, the Akatsuki were working well as they were without actually being puppets of Tobi, rogue ninjas trying to conquer the world through the bijuus or economic strength as it was originally hyped was not a bad idea. Are you saying that we need every villain to have sharingan eyes and every threat to the world to have originated from Konoha?


----------



## Powerful Lord (Jan 29, 2014)

tkpirate said:


> again you're saying something that is wrong.manga went downhill because of obito not madara.the manga is currently readable because of madara.and naruto didn't took out kakuzu alone either.



He Basically did, Kakashi and friends only served as Kakuzu's warm-up.


----------



## Ero Grimmy (Jan 29, 2014)

Powerful Lord said:


> How so? Couldn't there have been better reveals? I mean, we don't need the Uchihas to be the front and center of the Naruto Universe, the Akatsuki were working well as they were without actually being puppets of Tobi, rogue ninjas trying to conquer the world through the bijuus or economic strength as it was originally hyped was not a bad idea. *Are you saying that we need every villain to have sharingan eyes* and every threat to the world to have originated from Konoha?



Don't forget the Sharingan eyes on Danzo arms and shit, oh and Sharingan Moon, that too


----------



## Powerful Lord (Jan 29, 2014)

Ero Grimmy said:


> Don't forget the Sharingan eyes on Danzo arms and shit, oh and Sharingan Moon, that too



Sharingan this, sharingan that, seems like in this world you need either Sharingan or genes. By the way, what about the Byakugan? why don't we see some Byakugan sun changing techniques to counter the sharingan moon?


----------



## tkpirate (Jan 29, 2014)

Powerful Lord said:


> How so? Couldn't there have been better reveals? I mean, we don't need the Uchihas to be the front and center of the Naruto Universe, the Akatsuki were working well as they were without actually being puppets of Tobi, rogue ninjas trying to conquer the world through the bijuus or economic strength as it was originally hyped was not a bad idea. Are you saying that we need every villain to have sharingan eyes and every threat to the world to have originated from Konoha?



without madara nagato wouldn't have rinnegan,and he probably would be dead too.and without the head of akatsuki it wouldn't work either.


----------



## Ero Grimmy (Jan 29, 2014)

tkpirate said:


> without madara nagato wouldn't have rinnegan,and he probably would be dead too.and without the head of akatsuki it wouldn't work either.



The point here is we have an entire world full of ninja I am sure someone could have become a villain, strong one also, not everyone is peacefull. Why the rinnengan need anyway? But one thing you are right about, this is how it is now... we have to deal with it.


----------



## tkpirate (Jan 29, 2014)

Powerful Lord said:


> He Basically did, Kakashi and friends only served as Kakuzu's warm-up.



kakashi did damage kakuzu.what i remenber he destroyed one of his heart.also yamato saved naruto from some of kakuzu's attacks.and you're going off topic here.


----------



## Ero Grimmy (Jan 29, 2014)

Powerful Lord said:


> Sharingan this, sharingan that, seems like in this world you need either Sharingan or genes. By the way, what about the Byakugan? why don't we see some Byakugan sun changing techniques to counter the sharingan moon?



Wait for it, incoming Neji Sun Byakugan revival! Plus a new eye power, more legendary than Rinnengan, even before the ninja world. You heard it here first!


----------



## tkpirate (Jan 29, 2014)

Ero Grimmy said:


> The point here is we have an entire world full of ninja I am sure someone could have become a villain, strong one also, not everyone is peacefull. Why the rinnengan need anyway? But one thing you are right about, this is how it is now... we have to deal with it.



well,kishi chose to write his story like that.you may like it or dislike it.


----------



## wibisana (Jan 29, 2014)

Ero Grimmy said:


> Wait for it, incoming Neji Sun Byakugan revival! Plus a new eye power, more legendary than Rinnengan, even before the ninja world. You heard it here first!



well originally Kishi planned Sharingan is mutated Byakugan anyway.


----------



## B Rabbit (Jan 29, 2014)

The manga started turning to shit when Naruto wasn't powerful enough to fight Sasuke when they first met.


----------



## Powerful Lord (Jan 29, 2014)

tkpirate said:


> without madara nagato wouldn't have rinnegan,and he probably would be dead too.and without the head of akatsuki it wouldn't work either.



And how did Nagato get the rinnegan from Madara exactly? Nobody was really asking if somebody gave it to him for all those years, it was just acceptable that he was born with them. Either way, look at the Akatsuki in volume 30, Forget the characters that came after like Nagato, just look as how they were:



It could have gone many ways, all you knew was that they had their eyes set on the Bijuus and world domination, Tobi was a new member who was clumsy, or like all the others had his oun agenda, the rings seemed to be somewhat important and the leader had an aura about him, with the design reflecting that of somebody who wants to interact with pain itself, something said by Kishi himself while making the design for the character.

Forget all the later crap we got, like the children of destiny, Nagato's backstory and etc.

It could have gone many ways, the plot was going well without Madara even being mentioned, or Pain being just a puppet, or the only new member we see joining the Akatsuki actually being its true mastermind.

Point in case, the storline could have gone many ways, and the way Kishi decided to go with Madara was disapoining and previously hyped final battle villains like Orochimaru, or pre-nagato revelation Pain were more interesting in the role. Legends like Mada are usually more interesting as legends and figures from the past, not much when they end up returning to the present and being revealed as the "man behind everything", in least when you have so many good ways to go forward.


----------



## Jagger (Jan 29, 2014)

I don't read One Piece, so Doflamingo is out of the question as I can't rate him properly.

As for Yhwach, we haven't really seen a lot from him personally. His backstory is very interesting and dark, though. I like that, but I'd like to see more of him and his personal motives for everything (I feel there's more than just that).

So, Madara gets my vote. This may change or not. Also, I'm a closet fanboy, so yeah.


----------



## tkpirate (Jan 29, 2014)

@powerful lord, madara gave nagato rinnegan off panel.and no a uzumaki couldn't have a rinnegan.if it wasn't revealed it would have been a plot hole.i will reply to your next comment later.


----------



## The Faceless Man (Jan 29, 2014)

I read the whole thread and this thread is so god damn pointless and pathetic.

Cuz people who dont read OP still take a vote , people who dont read Naruto also take vote and some dont even know who the fuck is the third guy Yhwach ?

WTF is this shit ?

I know Madara cuz i only read Naruto his great but i have no clue how are the others.

Now lets vote   lameeeee


----------



## Powerful Lord (Jan 29, 2014)

tkpirate said:


> @powerful lord, madara gave nagato rinnegan off panel.



I know 



> and no a uzumaki couldn't have a rinnegan.if it wasn't revealed it would have been a plot hole.i will reply to your next comment later.


Why? a granddad of his could have been uchiha or something like that, didn't around 40% of Asia have blood from Ghengis Khan? Or he could have been related to the Sage of Six Paths. Why the hell would Madara give Rinnegan to a kid, and how did he know all of those events would happen to him and he would have become the man he did?


----------



## tkpirate (Jan 29, 2014)

Powerful Lord said:


> Why? a granddad of his could have been uchiha or something like that, didn't around 40% of Asia have blood from Ghengis Khan? Or he could have been related to the Sage of Six Paths. Why the hell would Madara give Rinnegan to a kid, and how did he know all of those events would happen to him and he would have become the man he did?



well,they wouldn't have made much sense.uchiha's and senju's are related to RS but not all of them can have Rinnegan.and nagato belonged to a small nation,and in naruto small nations always used to suffer because of big nations,probably that's why madara knew how nagato's life will turn out to be.and it seems that madara dose have some type of ability to predict the future.


----------



## Impact (Jan 29, 2014)

Doflamingo owning that poll.


----------



## The Doctor (Jan 29, 2014)

Best villain. Best eyebrows.


----------



## The Doctor (Jan 29, 2014)

I'm also quite impressed no one has come to argue about the philosophical importance of Bleach villains or how deep, dark, violent and emotionally heavy these cartoons are for children.

Maybe these forums are evolving afterall.


----------



## tkpirate (Jan 29, 2014)

B Rabbit said:


> The manga started turning to shit when Naruto wasn't powerful enough to fight Sasuke when they first met.



no not really.


----------



## Renegade Knight (Jan 29, 2014)

Easy choice.


----------



## Grimm6Jack (Jan 30, 2014)

Nagato/Pain should've been the final villain... The manga was doing pretty damn good until Pain's defeat.

Wth the return of Madara and Tobi's revelation, manga started to not make sense and be shittier.


----------



## tkpirate (Jan 30, 2014)

Grimm said:


> Nagato/Pain should've been the final villain... The manga was doing pretty damn good until Pain's defeat.
> 
> Wth the return of Madara and Tobi's revelation, manga started to not make sense and be shittier.



madara's return helped the manga.it's Tobi reveal that destroyed it.though it's still doing better than some of the other manga's.


----------



## ZenithXAbyss (Jan 30, 2014)

> tkpirate on a nardo thread.
Ha Ha Ha Ha.


----------



## wibisana (Jan 30, 2014)

tkpirate said:


> madara's return helped the manga.it's Tobi reveal that destroyed it.though it's still doing better than some of the other manga's.


Tobi is Tobito destroy the manga? you admit it?
and you say that Madara is better villain because somehow (miraculously) Obito fell down to his cave,

teach him. give plan to him, but then back stabbed because Obito never have plan to revive him.
but conveniently Kabuto (who is never in Obito/Madara plan in Juubi resurrection) which somehow got his DNA revive him. 

and when Edo Tensei is cancelled by Itachi Madara somehow know jutsu (ways) to break edo tensei?

do you realize how many "somehow" in Madara's greatness you claim?


----------



## tkpirate (Jan 30, 2014)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> > tkpirate on a nardo thread.
> Ha Ha Ha Ha.



lolzenath ?


----------



## tkpirate (Jan 30, 2014)

wibisana said:


> Tobi is Tobito destroy the manga? you admit it?
> and you say that Madara is better villain because somehow (miraculously) Obito fell down to his cave,
> 
> teach him. give plan to him, but then back stabbed because Obito never have plan to revive him.
> ...



lol can you even read ?i never said madara is great.though madara did have the plan to be revived by nagato.but he couldn't have thought that nagato would get tnj'ed by naruto.and madara knowing edo tensei seals is him being op.


----------



## rajin (Jan 31, 2014)

virtual identities brag about other villains and forget that they are mere villians wheras *UCHIHA MADARA *is creator of whole MANGA SERIES. other villains are no match to his achievements and this manga still sell and sailing only and only because of UCHIHA MADARA. who has interest in all those fodders?


----------



## R o r o n o a Z o r o (Jan 31, 2014)

I like Madara.


----------



## Blanco (Jan 31, 2014)

Gol d roger


----------



## Dragon D. Luffy (Jan 31, 2014)

stream said:


> Madara is a lot more interesting to me because he has a long and complex backstory.
> Doflamingo is a lot more generic as a villain: he has power, money, and no scruples. In Naruto, that would be barely the equivalent of Gato (rich evil corp boss in land of wave arc)... Who is already completely overshadowed by Zabuza.



It's pretty obvious he has a backstory, as has been hinted multiple times. It's just not been shown yet.

Though if he ends up not having one, please remember that you don't necessarily need an excuse to make a great villain. Some of the best villains in fiction are crazy psychos.

I mean, just look at Fullmetal Alchemist. Or DBZ. Or Hellsing. Or One Piece itself.



stream said:


> That's sophistry. You might as well say that if any of these guys' mothers had died before giving birth they would not have existed. My point is, what are the _actions_ of the characters which had an influence on the world.
> 
> Let me put this simply: Write everything you know about Doflamingo. All the facts. All you know about his past. Now do the same for Madara. You will find that Madara has a much greater backstory… Even though he has been absent for most of the manga!
> 
> Yeah, yeah, we don't know _yet_ about Doflamingo's past. Maybe he will have a great incredible backstory… Maybe! And maybe not.



Okay dude, I understand, there has been not a villain more influential in his universe, more powerful and more omnipresent in the entire shounen genre than Madara.

He is the greatest Mary Sue ever seen.



B Rabbit said:


> No one's wanking Doflamingo. He's more interesting that Madara.
> 
> I find it hilarious that a half way mark villain is being compared and being said to be better than two final series villains.
> 
> Although EoS villains, Blackbeard will take it.



I find it hilarious that people still try to compare One Piece to Nardo and Blaech.

Actually, let's just put it this way: Orochimaru was a better villain than Madara will ever get to be. And he got pushed aside in favor of the Uchihas, because Kishimoto apparently was more interested in fanboying over them than writing a good manga.


----------



## Black Mirror (Jan 31, 2014)

Oh yeah, good ol naruto days when orochimaru was the bad guy and Naruto was a guy. Kishi is such a ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)... srsly.


----------



## Dragon D. Luffy (Jan 31, 2014)

Black Mirror said:


> Oh yeah, good ol naruto days when orochimaru was the bad guy and Naruto was a guy. Kishi is such a ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)... srsly.



Everybody is giving their 2 cents on when Naruto became shit, so I'll give mine. It is when Sasuke killed Orochimaru. That marked the beginning of the Uchiha Saga. It is when all villains became Uchiha, and all the protagonists not named Naruto and Sasuke stopped being relevant.

If the manga had never had any sharingan users other than Sasuke, Itachi and Kakashi, it would've been much better. Instead we got this Uchihafest.



The Doctor said:


> I'm also quite impressed no one has come to argue about the philosophical importance of Bleach villains or how deep, dark, violent and emotionally heavy these cartoons are for children.
> 
> Maybe these forums are evolving afterall.



Bleach is currently recovering from its dark ages and it has been somewhat entertaining. Also Yhwach is a pretty damn good villain. So bashing Bleach hasn't been so fun lately.

Naruto, on the other hand... lol.


----------



## stream (Jan 31, 2014)

Dragon D Luffy said:


> Orochimaru was a better villain than Madara will ever get to be.


Oh yes, Orochimaru was the best villain in Naruto by far! Pity that Kishi lost the formula and never found it again. Then again, there could be only one utter magnificent bastard like Orochimaru in a story.


----------



## Powerful Lord (Jan 31, 2014)

Dragon D Luffy said:


> Everybody is giving their 2 cents on when Naruto became shit, so I'll give mine. It is when Sasuke killed Orochimaru. That marked the beginning of the Uchiha Saga. It is when all villains became Uchiha, and all the protagonists not named Naruto and Sasuke stopped being relevant.
> 
> If the manga had never had any sharingan users other than Sasuke, Itachi and Kakashi, it would've been much better. Instead we got this Uchihafest.
> 
> ...



I actually put my cents on when these kids started to single handedly beat the Akatsuki, with Sakura it was acceptable, since Chio, somebody with a long experience, was using her powerful attacks along with her puppet tricks.

I wouldn't have actually minded Tobi having the Sharingan, if he was more of a com artista and a true ninja, as he seemed to be, though i don't think he should have been an uchiha, just possibly one of the guys who helped Itachi kill the entire clan and therefore took the sharingan from one of them.



stream said:


> Oh yes, Orochimaru was the best villain in Naruto by far! Pity that Kishi lost the formula and never found it again. Then again, there could be only one utter magnificent bastard like Orochimaru in a story.



Pain had an aura around him, and Sasuke could have developed into a final villain. Unfortunatelly Kishi didn't give any of them a proper development.


----------



## ZE (Jan 31, 2014)

stream said:


> Half of these are only relevant to the current arc, not the whole story. Doflamingo is in fact a subordinate of a bigger boss.
> 
> Let's say if Doflamingo is revealed to be the guy who organized the world government and he was somehow personally the cause of Gol D Roger getting executed and starting the Great Age of Pirates, _then_ he would have in One Piece's world the importance that Madara has in Naruto's world. Oh, and he also needs to be the final big boss of the whole manga.



What are you talking about? The two most important occurrences in the manga were the uchiha massacre and the Kyuubi attack on konoha, and Madara played absolutely no role there. It was all Obito's doing. Madara was dead at the time, while Obito followed his own path. 

Without Madara, Naruto would still be the Kyuubi jinchuuriki
Sasuke would still be an avenger 
Naruto would still have to control the Kyuubi in order to beat Obito


----------



## Rob (Jan 31, 2014)

Madara: Butthurt, over-powered emo ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".). 
Bach: Pretty interesting dude, with not enough panel-time. 
Doflamingo: Perfection.


----------

