# Transgender Star of Web Series Found Beaten to Death in Her Apartment



## MegaultraHay (Aug 22, 2013)

> Domonique Newburn, one of the stars of "Hollywood Houseboys," was found dead Tuesday after suffering "blunt trauma," the San Bernardino County Coroner's Office said.
> 
> The transgender star of an online reality series was found beaten to death in her apartment in Fontana, Calif., on Tuesday afternoon, KNBC reported.
> our editor recommends
> ...


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## WT (Aug 22, 2013)

Picture:

*Spoiler*: __ 






Pretty sad stuff, RIP


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## Jena (Aug 22, 2013)

I have no idea who this is, but death is sad regardless.


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## navy (Aug 22, 2013)

Hopefully, not a hate crime.


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## Agmaster (Aug 22, 2013)

navy said:


> Hopefully, not a hate crime.



Man, I'd put money down that hate had more than 50% to do with it


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## Mael (Aug 22, 2013)

White Tiger said:


> Picture:
> 
> *That thing is better dead than alive*



Ah so you mean like drone targets?  K gotcha.


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## Linkofone (Aug 22, 2013)

Le gasp.


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## Hand Banana (Aug 22, 2013)

White Tiger said:


> Picture:
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



*MY FUCKING EYESSSSS*


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## LesExit (Aug 22, 2013)

*struggles to not respond to filthy troll posts* 

Thats terrible. We don't know if it was a hate crime, I'm assuming it was. Regardless she didn't need to lose her life...


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## TenshiNeko (Aug 22, 2013)

Maybe it was a hate crime, or maybe it was an abusive boyfriend. I think it was someone she knew, because I think the avg hate crime would probably occur in a more neutral place. 


I doubt it was someone she picked up who didn't know she was transgendered, and then flipped out about it when he found out. I mean, no offense intended, but she looked like a guy in drag.... Heck, she looked like an NFL linebacker in drag

It's terrible that she was murdered. I hope they catch who did it


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## Subarashii (Aug 22, 2013)

She betrayed her sex!  How dare she be born feeling as a woman but being a man!

But srsly, justice plz


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## Talia00 (Aug 22, 2013)

That sucks..


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## Thor (Aug 22, 2013)

Who cares? People die everyday.


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## Legend (Aug 22, 2013)

i feel sorry for her family


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## Mael (Aug 22, 2013)

Thor said:


> Who cares? People die everyday.



It's the nature of the death.  Dying of natural causes isn't the same as traumatic murder.

Relativity.


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## Godly Giraffe - King of the Uverworld (Aug 22, 2013)

If "she" was that hideous as a male someone should've pushed him straight off a building.


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## Bioness (Aug 22, 2013)

Ken said:


> If "she" was that hideous as a male someone should've pushed him straight off a building.



Remind me to neg you again later.


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## Romanticide (Aug 22, 2013)

how sad.  i hope they find who killed her.


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## Dil (Aug 22, 2013)

Why is this so shocking?


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## Superrazien (Aug 22, 2013)

Found dead in his apartment I think you mean.


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## Thor (Aug 22, 2013)

Mael said:


> It's the nature of the death.  Dying of natural causes isn't the same as traumatic murder.
> 
> Relativity.



People get murdered everyday. Why is this news? What accomplishments for the betterment of society did this man in drag accomplish??


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## Alwaysmind (Aug 22, 2013)

Every death is sad, but on a more technical note (relating to the actual article); how many videos do you need to be in to be considered a "star"? From what the article says, the show only lasted 4 episodes which aired 3 years ago. Is that enough to be considered a star?


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## First Tsurugi (Aug 22, 2013)

I can't handle all the edge ITT.


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## lacey (Aug 22, 2013)

navy said:


> Hopefully, not a hate crime.



Wouldn't surprise me if it was.

Tragic either way.


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## Banhammer (Aug 22, 2013)

oh my, I haven't given the neg mallet a work out this swift since the big nazi thread of 2013


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## Bobby Emerald (Aug 22, 2013)

White Tiger said:


> Picture:
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



Tragedy aside; holy shit, if you're gonna do transgender, do it RIGHT please 


(Then again I'm bias, I have yet to see any black person do transgender right lol)


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## Gino (Aug 22, 2013)

Bobby Emerald said:


> Tragedy aside; holy shit, if you're gonna do transgender, do it RIGHT please
> 
> 
> (Then again I'm bias, I have yet to see any black person do transgender right lol)



How in the fuck do you do transgender right?That makes no sense.


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## Mider T (Aug 23, 2013)

White Tiger said:


> Picture:
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



I thought this was gonna be a picture of the murder scene.  Though for a transgender, it isn't that bad looking.  I mean it was a really good job.  It's just that it looks like it was already naturally ugly in the face.


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## Jagger (Aug 23, 2013)

Yet, the users that make fun of her death rage so hard when they found someone that totally contradict their opinions...

Oh well, it's the internet. We're all supposed to be edgy as fuck, right?


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## Aeiou (Aug 23, 2013)

Some of these posts are atrocious.


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## Godly Giraffe - King of the Uverworld (Aug 23, 2013)

Jagger said:


> Yet, the users that make fun of her death rage so hard when they found someone that totally contradict their opinions...
> 
> Oh well, it's the internet. We're all supposed to be edgy as fuck, right?



No, merely slightly cynical and laidback. You rage, you've gone wrong.


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## Bioness (Aug 23, 2013)

Gino said:


> How in the fuck do you do transgender right?That makes no sense.



He likely means doing it with class, like the "realistic" transsexuals you see in transsexual beauty pageants. 



Or like Calpernia Addams from _Transamerican Love Story_.



Why he points out black transsexuals likely has to do with how so many have been homeless at one point or another and are from low income areas....which is really the black population in general but it is worse for them because they get kicked out of whatever home they might have had.

@ Mider T please refrain from referring to the victim as an "it", that is both extremely insulting and offensive.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 23, 2013)

1. Thats one ugly man.

2. So what, not news. 

3. Those guys Bioness posted are ugly. 

4. lol Mider T just noticed where your Signature was from.


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## Godly Giraffe - King of the Uverworld (Aug 23, 2013)

So nothing new in that post whatsoever.


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## Babby (Aug 23, 2013)

Oh no someone died.


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## Godly Giraffe - King of the Uverworld (Aug 23, 2013)

You use those first three words carelessly, young one.


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## LesExit (Aug 23, 2013)

Bobby Emerald said:


> Tragedy aside; holy shit, if you're gonna do transgender, do it RIGHT please
> 
> 
> (Then again I'm bias, I have yet to see any black person do transgender right lol)


Not even her?

*Spoiler*: __ 









Orange is the new black 
I didn't even know she was transgender at first. I think she's beautiful o___o....tons of transgender women are really beautiful! Tons of non-transgender women I find pretty unattractive...so uh whatever? Also does anyone have a before photo of her? I haven't seen one.

 Will you people every stop being so disgustingly hateful? Trolling or not...a women is dead...can you guys not afford even a tea-spoon of self-restraint?


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## Daxter (Aug 23, 2013)

LesExit said:


> Will you people every stop being so disgustingly hateful? Trolling or not...a women is dead...can you guys not afford even a tea-spoon of self-restraint?




NF is incredibly transphobic. That's okay though, it's super cool to be transphobic. We all know NF is really cool.


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## Bobby Emerald (Aug 23, 2013)

Gino said:


> How in the fuck do you do transgender right?That makes no sense.



v See response to Bioness v



Bioness said:


> He likely means doing it with class, like the "realistic" transsexuals you see in transsexual beauty pageants.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What I meant was (and I had a bit of a hard time putting it into words tbh), if you want to be woman, you better look convincing, SOUND convincing, SMELL convincing (exaggeration, but at least don't smell like "a man"), and FEEL convincing. Basically, past the point where I can't suspect you of being a cross-dresser. Got all that down and I'm likely to smash regardless of the genitals 




LesExit said:


> Not even her?
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



Hmm, well that's first. I'll admit she's slightly attractive...except in that last photo  you put there. >_> Still wouldn't have sex with her though.


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## WT (Aug 23, 2013)

LesExit said:


> Not even her?
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



How the fuck is that beautiful? This is beautiful:


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## LesExit (Aug 23, 2013)

Daxter said:


> NF is incredibly transphobic. That's okay though, it's super cool to be transphobic. We all know NF is really cool.


Yes....I've noticed....

I hope for the most part these people act differently off of the empowering inter-webs. 


Bobby Emerald said:


> Hmm, well that's first. I'll admit she's attractive...except in that last photo  you put there. >_> Still wouldn't have sex with her though.


She put on weight  I still think she is a beautiful woman. 


White Tiger said:


> How the fuck is that beautiful? This is beautiful:


So....I actually think they're both beautiful


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## Xyloxi (Aug 23, 2013)

Transphobia and sexism? All we need now is for someone to say something racist and we'll have ourselves a nice bigotry combo. This is newsworthy if this is a hate crime, due to transphobia being for the most part socially acceptable compared to homophobia or racism.


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## Euraj (Aug 24, 2013)

Xyloxi said:


> Transphobia and sexism? All we need now is for someone to say something racist and we'll have ourselves a nice bigotry combo. This is newsworthy if this is a hate crime, due to transphobia being for the most part socially acceptable compared to homophobia or racism.


Interesting enough, most of the rest of the insensitivity characteristic of wingnuts is mocked here. Probs less transphobia, and more a bunch young blokes trying to funny without worrying about PR. NF is a great place.


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## Basilikos (Aug 24, 2013)

LesExit said:


> Not even her?
> Will you people every stop being so disgustingly hateful? Trolling or not...a women is dead...can you guys not afford even a tea-spoon of self-restraint?


You, my dear, must be new around here.



Daxter said:


> NF is incredibly transphobic.[/COLOR]


Hardly.  NF has an LGBT fanclub, and the NF cafe (where we are both posting in atm) is extremely friendly towards liberal/progressive perspectives.

Trolling =/= fear/hatred of transexuals.


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## Bioness (Aug 24, 2013)

Basilikos just having an LGBT club does mean the place where it located is totalling accepting/tolerant of Lesbians, Gays, Bisexuals, and Transgenders, nor are each accepted equally.

You get problems like people immediately accepting lesbians because they are "hot", disliking gays because they are "gross", not liking bisexuals because they don't believe they exist, and fearing transsexuals because of the threat of being "tricked" and having a binary gender mindset.

Transsexuals are overall the least accepted part of the group, excluding possibly genderqueers. While some of the comments are trolling, based on previous threads regarding transgenders I can tell you with certainty many aren't.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 24, 2013)

White Tiger said:


> How the fuck is that beautiful? This is beautiful:



Her face is ok. 

Need to see a full front and back body shop, lets not toss around the word Beautiful.


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## LesExit (Aug 24, 2013)

Basilikos said:


> You, my dear, must be new around here.


I'm not...it's just...tiring 



Bioness said:


> Basilikos just having an LGBT club does mean the place where it located is totalling accepting/tolerant of Lesbians, Gays, Bisexuals, and Transgenders, nor are each accepted equally.
> 
> You get problems like people immediately accepting lesbians because they are "hot", disliking gays because they are "gross", not liking bisexuals because they don't believe they exist, and fearing transsexuals because of the threat of being "tricked" and having a binary gender mindset.
> 
> Transsexuals are overall the least accepted part of the group, excluding possibly genderqueers. While some of the comments are trolling, based on previous threads regarding transgenders I can tell you with certainty many aren't.


quoting this for truth...


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## WT (Aug 24, 2013)

Got neg'd by Esponer 

That's wounded me pretty badly. When Esponer negs you, you know you've fucked up.

My shitty joke was in bad taste and I'm sorry to all those who were offended. I don't promote death and now I feel terrible. 

*proceeds to edit my post*


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## Basilikos (Aug 24, 2013)

Bioness said:


> Basilikos just having an LGBT club does mean the place where it located is totalling accepting/tolerant of Lesbians, Gays, Bisexuals, and Transgenders, nor are each accepted equally.
> 
> You get problems like people immediately accepting lesbians because they are "hot", disliking gays because they are "gross", not liking bisexuals because they don't believe they exist, and fearing transsexuals because of the threat of being "tricked" and having a binary gender mindset.
> 
> Transsexuals are overall the least accepted part of the group, excluding possibly genderqueers. While some of the comments are trolling, based on previous threads regarding transgenders I can tell you with certainty many aren't.


Are we talking about the same thing here?  Because I've looked in the LGBT fanclub thread a few times before and people seem to get along just fine in there.  Are you perhaps talking about society in general?

Lastly, never heard of long term trolling?  The internet is characterized by extreme insincerity.  Much of the time, you have no idea what the person you're talking to is _really_ like and what they _actually_ believe.  People often wear masks, guises, and take on false personas around these parts. 



LesExit said:


> I'm not...it's just...tiring


Understandable.  However, NF has other issues that are tiring to me because they are caused by authentic malice, hypocrisy, group think, and stupidity rather than some bored trolls who just want to say edgy things for some quick lulz.


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## Blue (Aug 24, 2013)

Bioness said:


> You get problems like people immediately accepting lesbians because they are "hot"



THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS


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## Thor (Aug 24, 2013)

I'm not scared of Transexuals. I dislike them. I'm not phobic anything. They gross me out and it's not natural.


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## Big Mom (Aug 24, 2013)

Thor said:


> Who cares? People die everyday.





Ken said:


> If "she" was that hideous as a male someone should've pushed him straight off a building.





Thor said:


> People get murdered everyday. Why is this news? What accomplishments for the betterment of society did this man in drag accomplish??





Ken said:


> This one was overdue, you see. I honestly can't fathom how anyone who worked at the salon that monstrocity of a human went to hasn't killed herself yet.


I know you guys think makes you cool to be all tough and stuff, but it doesn't. It makes you an ass.


Thor said:


> I'm not scared of Transexuals. I dislike them. I'm not phobic anything. They gross me out and it's not natural.



And who are you to cast judgement upon people?


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## Ceria (Aug 24, 2013)

All things considered she wasn't a bad looking person. For being what she was it wasn't a blatant DUDE LOOKS LIKE A LADY. 

shame about what happened.


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## Sunuvmann (Aug 24, 2013)

Thor said:


> I'm not scared of Transexuals. I dislike them. I'm not phobic anything. *They gross me out and it's not natural.*



I think that's a lot of the reason for dislike of transexuals.



> The uncanny valley is a hypothesis in the field of human aesthetics which holds that *when human features look* and move *almost, but not exactly, like natural human beings, it causes a response of revulsion among human observers.* Examples can be found in the fields of robotics,[1] 3D computer animation,[2][3] and in medical fields such as burn reconstruction, infectious diseases, neurological conditions, *and plastic surgery*





In many cases, the one in OP included, they just look a tad...off. Which yields the uncanny valley response.


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## Blue (Aug 24, 2013)

You just implicitly implied transsexuals look almost, but not quite, human.

You're such an awesome liberal :smb <--- this is new?


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## LesExit (Aug 24, 2013)

Blue said:


> THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS


I just find it demeaning as a lesbian...


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## Bishop (Aug 24, 2013)

I only dislike transsexuals who deceive others into sex without disclosing their born gender. Transgenders are the #1 killed group (as in group of people not concerning race) in the US; most of the time it is because the person who had sex with them found out afterwards.


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## LesExit (Aug 24, 2013)

Bishop said:


> I only dislike transsexuals who deceive others into sex without disclosing their born gender. Transgenders are the #1 killed group (as in group of people not concerning race) in the US; most of the time it is because the person who had sex with them found out afterwards.


Why is that necessary though? Well I guess some people may feel like they've been lied to or whatever...but I don't get how. To transexual people their born gender was not correct, it's not what they felt they were supposed to be. I can't understand how people can get so angry knowing they were born a different sex. You like them as they are now, and how they are now is how they've always seen themselves and wanted themselves to be. To them their own bodies deceived them since birth. Whats the point in saying, I was a guy but now I'm a girl, what does that change o___O!? Would it confuse people? Perhaps make them question their sexuality or something? Like....she has a vagina but used to have a penis, so that means I'm sleeping with a guy, therefore am gay!? 

I admit at first I might be like...woah, but if she was a nice person or I was in love with her...wheres the harm done?


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## Bishop (Aug 25, 2013)

LesExit said:


> Why is that necessary though? Well I guess some people may feel like they've been lied to or whatever...but I don't get how. To transexual people their born gender was not correct, it's not what they felt they were supposed to be. I can't understand how people can get so angry knowing they were born a different sex. You like them as they are now, and how they are now is how they've always seen themselves and wanted themselves to be. To them their own bodies deceived them since birth. Whats the point in saying, I was a guy but now I'm a girl, what does that change o___O!? Would it confuse people? Perhaps make them question their sexuality or something? Like....she has a vagina but used to have a penis, so that means I'm sleeping with a guy, therefore am gay!?
> 
> I admit at first I might be like...woah, but if she was a nice person or I was in love with her...wheres the harm done?



Really now, you lack the capacity to understand why someone would feel deceived thinking that they are sleeping with certain gender when it was in fact born differently. 

The harm is not in dating a transgender, but rather in bathing in the ignorance. If you truly care for the person, why lie? You say one likes the person as they are now; they are transgender now, does the other person know that? If not, they don't even know the person and only like an illusion

Your last sentence in the first paragraph is key; do I know this before the sex? It's one thing to know and then choose, but that rarely happens. It displays immaturity and insecurity to withhold information that is potentially vital to the other person. This is why it is a crime in some nations and why it is a crime if one is to get married in US and not disclose such information.


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## Sunuvmann (Aug 25, 2013)

Blue said:


> You just implicitly implied transsexuals look almost, but not quite, human.
> 
> You're such an awesome liberal :smb <--- this is new?





> *natural human beings*


Do you even read?


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## Blue (Aug 25, 2013)

Sunuvmann said:


> Do you even read?



Yes, natural human being.

As opposed to a unnatural human being. Like a robot, or Michael Jackson.


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## Sunuvmann (Aug 25, 2013)

Blue said:


> Yes, natural human being.
> 
> As opposed to a unnatural human being. Like a robot, or *Michael Jackson.*


Exactly.

By definition of being a transexual you have done surgery. Like Michael Jackson.

And often in the case m to f's, with it being post pubescent, they have a male's face (jawline, etc.) with female features.

The unconscious mind registers these disparities as being different from the expectations and uncanny valley kicks in.


Thai and other asian transexuals have the good fortune of all their men looking like women anyway [/casual racism]


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## LesExit (Aug 25, 2013)

Bishop said:


> Really now, you lack the capacity to understand why someone would feel deceived thinking that they are sleeping with certain gender when it was in fact born differently.
> 
> The harm is not in dating a transgender, but rather in bathing in the ignorance. If you truly care for the person, why lie? You say one likes the person as they are now; they are transgender now, does the other person know that? If not, they don't even know the person and only like an illusion
> 
> Your last sentence in the first paragraph is key; do I know this before the sex? It's one thing to know and then choose, but that rarely happens. It displays immaturity and insecurity to withhold information that is potentially vital to the other person. This is why it is a crime in some nations and why it is a crime if one is to get married in US and not disclose such information.


Clearly if you agreed to sleep with this person with the gender they say they are, you must see them as this gender, and _they are_ that gender. Why does it matter if they were born differently, if thats not even what they are anymore?
I know people may think exactly what I stated in my last sentence...but I just find it ridiculous to think that. Clearly it doesn't make you gay, they have a different body than they did before, the body which they should've had all along. I don't see how the person is lying. They say they're a woman...and they are regardless of what they were when they were born. Eventually if they didn't tell the person before hand, they will tell them they're transgendered, however I don't think any person should feel lied too, when the person is in-fact the gender they said they were. I'd feel surprised...but not lied too. If they were born a guy and became a woman and I slept with her...I would still consider myself a lesbian :0 

Why wouldn't a person wouldn't tell that to someone they're getting married too? 

but people feel how they feel, I just don't get how I guess....idk o___o


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## Gunners (Aug 25, 2013)

LesExit said:


> *Why is that necessary though?* Well I guess some people may feel like they've been lied to or whatever...but I don't get how. To transexual people their born gender was not correct, it's not what they felt they were supposed to be. I can't understand how people can get so angry knowing they were born a different sex. You like them as they are now, and how they are now is how they've always seen themselves and wanted themselves to be. To them their own bodies deceived them since birth. Whats the point in saying, I was a guy but now I'm a girl, what does that change o___O!? Would it confuse people? Perhaps make them question their sexuality or something? Like....she has a vagina but used to have a penis, so that means I'm sleeping with a guy, therefore am gay!?
> 
> I admit at first I might be like...woah, but if she was a nice person or I was in love with her...wheres the harm done?


Because it is akin to rape, if someone deceived me in that way they would get killed.


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## LesExit (Aug 25, 2013)

Gunners said:


> Because it is akin to rape, if someone deceived me in that way they would get killed.


Rape...? What? In what way is it like rape if you're having consensual sex with them, knowing in advance their sex? What does what they had down there 10 years ago have to do with whats going on now?


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## Gunners (Aug 25, 2013)

LesExit said:


> Rape...? What? In what way is it like rape if you're having consensual sex with them, knowing in advance their sex? What does what they had down there 10 years ago have to do with whats going on now?


In what way is it like rape? The individual would be consenting to having sex with a woman ( or man) surgically produced woman ( or man), the deception would mar the consent given resulting in a feeling of violation that is comparable to rape. What does what they had down there 10 years have to do? It determines their biological gender. Whether it it is a man with a penis, or a woman who was once a man until she had her penis snipped, most men would not knowingly consent to sex with the individual.

To be honest, I find you hypocrisy disgusting.


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## Bioness (Aug 25, 2013)

Basilikos said:


> Are we talking about the same thing here?  Because I've looked in the LGBT fanclub thread a few times before and people seem to get along just fine in there.  Are you perhaps talking about society in general?
> 
> Lastly, never heard of long term trolling?  The internet is characterized by extreme insincerity.  Much of the time, you have no idea what the person you're talking to is _really_ like and what they _actually_ believe.  People often wear masks, guises, and take on false personas around these parts.



I'm talking about Naruto Forums in general, Naruto Forums is the place, while the LGBT Fanclub is like a interests specific building in the place.

The internet is also characterized by lack of consequence over your actual thoughts and feelings. Even with the trolling the internet is in my opinion the most honest setting one can have, in regards to personal opinions.



Thor said:


> I'm not scared of Transexuals. I dislike them. I'm not phobic anything. They gross me out and it's not natural.



Phobic = fear/hate


Sunuvmann said:


> I think that's a lot of the reason for dislike of transexuals.
> 
> 
> 
> In many cases, the one in OP included, they just look a tad...off. Which yields the uncanny valley response.



No, this is really not it. Uncanny valley has to do with looking human but not exactly.



> Examples can be found in the fields of robotics,[1] 3D computer animation,[2][3] and in medical fields such as burn reconstruction, infectious diseases, neurological conditions, and plastic surgery.



When it says plastic surgery it isn't talking about the body, it is referring to the face which is what people mainly use to judge others. You could have a woman with a beard and it wouldn't count as "uncanny valley" just very weird. 



Bishop said:


> Really now, you lack the capacity to understand why someone would feel deceived thinking that they are sleeping with certain gender when it was in fact born differently.
> 
> The harm is not in dating a transgender, but rather in bathing in the ignorance. If you truly care for the person, why lie? You say one likes the person as they are now; they are transgender now, does the other person know that? If not, they don't even know the person and only like an illusion
> 
> Your last sentence in the first paragraph is key; do I know this before the sex? It's one thing to know and then choose, but that rarely happens. It displays immaturity and insecurity to withhold information that is potentially vital to the other person. This is why it is a crime in some nations and why it is a crime if one is to get married in US and not disclose such information.



While I agree ideally transgenders should let their partners know, I can also perfectly understand why they would not disclose it. When you have sex with a person, let's say in a hook-up type setting, do you disclose all relevant information to them?

STD and HIV status
Other illnesses
Number of sexual partners
In a relationship or not
etc.

These are just as bad, if not worse than simply revealing your biological sex, and many times people would just prefer not to know and would rather stay in the "illusion". If someone wanted someone else enough to have sex with him or her then really it shouldn't matter. Unfortunately the reality is that somehow knowing this information completely destroys whatever sexual attraction you had to them, despite functionally (if done right) it changes nothing.


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## LesExit (Aug 25, 2013)

Gunners said:


> In what way is it like rape? The individual would be consenting to having sex with a woman ( or man) surgically produced woman ( or man), the deception would mar the consent given resulting in a feeling of violation that is comparable to rape. What does what they had down there 10 years have to do? It determines their biological gender. Whether it it is a man with a penis, or a woman who was once a man until she had her penis snipped, most men would not knowingly consent to sex with the individual.
> 
> To be honest, I find you hypocrisy disgusting.


If the person was nice and was a woman _now_ and I was attracted to them and I gave consent to have sex with this person, I wouldn't feel raped. I would never accuse them of raping me after I found out they were biologically born a man. That doesn't make sense to me o___o All that matters is that now they are indeed a woman, so....ya, I just don't really get how you would see it as comparable to rape, but OK. 

I don't see how I was being a hypocrite, I'm sorry you found whatever disgusting.

What if you fell for a woman and dated her for 6 months and then found out she was trans? Would you think back to all your physical encounters as rape or wrong? Maybe it was a good thing you didn't know she was trans at first because you would've missed out on what a great person she is. I find it weird how finding out that this person was born a different sex would cause people to react so harshly. I guess it's just something that doesn't concern me as much as others, because I will see that woman(surgically produced) as a real authentic woman. I'm fine with that though, more fish in the sea for me (▰˘◡˘▰) 
Just be careful who you pick up from the bar I guess (;? ロ?)?


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## Sunuvmann (Aug 25, 2013)

Bioness said:


> No, this is really not it. Uncanny valley has to do with looking human but not exactly.


Yes but its in the same ball park.

A woman with a masculine face (bigger chin, higher cheekbones, etc.) set off unconscious cues as they differ from the norm of what falls under the file of male and female.

That's why a lot of MtoF's have facial surgery to make their face more feminine (which I just learned from Yahoo Ask while looking for examples of what the common gender facial differences are)

If someone has a particularly male face (as is pretty evident in the case of the person this thread is about) but feminine body features, the brain is programmed to find that ugly.

I think I remember seeing a program about that in some class or another in high-school. Like of the different variables they found that men or women find beautiful or find ugly. Masculine and feminine facial features are large parts of it.

That biological program of beauty and uncanny valley are probably rooted in the same part of the brain.


> When it says plastic surgery it isn't talking about the body, it is referring to the face which is what people mainly use to judge others. You could have a woman with a beard and it wouldn't count as "uncanny valley" just very weird.


Well it goes by the same logic neh?

Wouldn't a woman who had plastic surgery to make her face look like Ben Affleck would look as off as Ben Affleck having plastic surgery to make his body look like a woman's?

(Yes, I'm just using him as the example because Batman)


----------



## Bishop (Aug 25, 2013)

Bioness said:


> While I agree ideally transgenders should let their partners know, I can also perfectly understand why they would not disclose it. When you have sex with a person, let's say in a hook-up type setting, do you disclose all relevant information to them?
> 
> STD and HIV status
> Other illnesses
> ...



You just attempted to justify personal irresponsibility with the fact that "others sometimes don't tell the truth either." This is a dismal argument at best; it shows how inept the person is.

With your example, I can feel okay deceiving a guy into sex because other people have done something similar. Oh, forget that I am my own person and that I am responsible for my actions, what matters is that other people have done wrong so it shouldn't be a big deal that I join the party.  That's an amiable gesture, but it is rudimentary in psychological and realistic affairs.

You based your post off of just sex (or at least that how it comes across as you avoided talking about anything else), but it is more than just sex. 

Focusing on that matter however, sex is psychological; you have to have mental imagery and so forth. Sex is personal. And most importantly, sex comes with certain pre-requisites (for smart people: Is the person clean, are they single, ect) and there are far more people who are smart and do this than what is portrayed on the Internetz and by bias groups. Fact is, most of the people who catch sti and std get it from fast sex (quickies, etc). 

But transgender isn't about sex, it's about a human being dating and partaking in emotional and sexual affairs with another human being. People with college degrees tend not to catch std or fall into the pits (I'll probably comeback with a source from NYT study) because they handle the bases first. 

But transgender deception is pure malice, pure selfishness, pure risk. 

You cannot justify a person putting their faith in another and being "probably happy to live in the illusion" of thinking they are with a certain gender. That's not even a valid approach, there aren't even studies to even question if the person is okay not knowing what gender you are. Practically NO ONE is fine with just guessing their lover is the gender they look like. eHarmony and New York school districts are recommending people to ask if their prospective lover is transgender, and they are getting flack; that's how you know activist are trying to protect selfish insecurities. The AIDs campaign will come out next year promoting people to ask if the other person is transgender before partaking in sex. 

The fact is, your decision affects others. No one has the right to judge anyone else, therefore, be honest with yourself, then be honest with others. This isn't something worth fighting for when it gets you killed; find ways to figure how tolerant your prospective lover is of transgenders, then make the decision to tell him or her, or walk away-- lying and causing devastating pain simply because others potentially do it isn't a good excuse, especially when is ends up getting you killed (like many transgenders in US, Australia and Britain),


----------



## Bishop (Aug 25, 2013)

LesExit said:


> Clearly if you agreed to sleep with this person with the gender they say they are, you must see them as this gender, and _they are_ that gender. Why does it matter if they were born differently, if thats not even what they are anymore?
> I know people may think exactly what I stated in my last sentence...but I just find it ridiculous to think that. Clearly it doesn't make you gay, they have a different body than they did before, the body which they should've had all along. I don't see how the person is lying. They say they're a woman...and they are regardless of what they were when they were born. Eventually if they didn't tell the person before hand, they will tell them they're transgendered, however I don't think any person should feel lied too, when the person is in-fact the gender they said they were. I'd feel surprised...but not lied too. If they were born a guy and became a woman and I slept with her...I would still consider myself a lesbian :0
> 
> Why wouldn't a person wouldn't tell that to someone they're getting married too?
> ...



I understand your sentiment. Also, please understand that you are a minority in this mentality. There is a huge push to make this rape by many groups on both sides of the isle. 

You lacking the capacity to see how people feel betrayed because they were deceived is understandable as well, to each her own.


----------



## Sunuvmann (Aug 25, 2013)

Fyi Bio: I'm not trying to excuse. Rather, that's my hypothesis on a plausible explanation.


----------



## Basilikos (Aug 25, 2013)

LesExit said:


> Why is that necessary though? Well I guess some people may feel like they've been lied to or whatever...but I don't get how. To transexual people their born gender was not correct, it's not what they felt they were supposed to be. I can't understand how people can get so angry knowing they were born a different sex. You like them as they are now, and how they are now is how they've always seen themselves and wanted themselves to be. To them their own bodies deceived them since birth. Whats the point in saying, I was a guy but now I'm a girl, what does that change o___O!? Would it confuse people? Perhaps make them question their sexuality or something? Like....she has a vagina but used to have a penis, so that means I'm sleeping with a guy, therefore am gay!?
> 
> I admit at first I might be like...woah, but if she was a nice person or I was in love with her...wheres the harm done?


Really, this boils down to personal preference.  

I'm a straight male, and personally, it wouldn't sit well with me to enter into a relationship with someone I thought was female from birth only to later find out that "she" was originally a he.

Such a situation is bad because the other person lied to you about something critically important about themselves with self serving motivations.  Moreover, *I personally* like my women to be women physically, mentally, biologically, etc.  Being born female at all levels, basically.   After all, those are the kinds of people I found myself attracted to once I had hit puberty and have been attracted to ever since.  

So _*to me*_, if you're born physically and biologically a male, then your self perception/mental state of being female, how many hormones you take, or surgeries you go through are all irrelevant if you weren't in fact born female.  This doesn't mean I'll think of transexuals as sub-human or something.  But I certainly won't have them on my list of viable life partners.

And just for the record, there's nothing hateful or bigoted about this.  I'm not attracted to guys either, and as a consequence they aren't on my list of viable life partners either.  But that doesn't mean I hate them.

So reiterate the thesis of this post: it boils down to personal preference.


----------



## LesExit (Aug 25, 2013)

Bishop said:


> I understand your sentiment. Also, please understand that you are a minority in this mentality. There is a huge push to make this rape by many groups on both sides of the isle.
> 
> You lacking the capacity to see how people feel betrayed because they were deceived is understandable as well, to each her own.


Hm am I really? Wasn't aware of that, well anyways you're right to each their own.


Basilikos said:


> Really, this boils down to personal preference.
> 
> I'm a straight male, and personally, it wouldn't sit well with me to enter into a relationship with someone I thought was female from birth only to later find out that "she" was originally a he.
> 
> ...


 Oh I don't think it's bigoted or hateful to not be attracted to them. I'm gay and me not wanting to date guys goes beyond a physical thing and is a mental thing...but I still think boys are cool of course...well some. What if you fell in love with a transgendered woman, who very much looked like a "true" woman in all ways, and then a few months later found out she wasn't biologically born a female. Do you ever think you would made an exception? Or would you drop her because of her being biologically born a male? I know it's a stupid "what if" question , I'm just curious :3


----------



## Basilikos (Aug 25, 2013)

LesExit said:


> Oh I don't think it's bigoted or hateful to not be attracted to them. I'm gay and me not wanting to date guys goes beyond a physical thing and is a mental thing...but I still think boys are cool of course...well some. What if you fell in love with a transgendered woman, who very much looked like a "true" woman in all ways, and then a few months later found out she wasn't biologically born a female. Do you ever think you would made an exception? Or would you drop her because of her being biologically born a male? I know it's a stupid "what if" question , I'm just curious :3


Who knows.

Sorry if that seems like a cop out answer.  I honestly don't know what I'd do.  What I can tell you for sure is that I wouldn't be remotely pleased about that situation. 

Frankly, the whole transexuality/gender identity crisis issue makes my head hurt half the time.


----------



## LesExit (Aug 25, 2013)

Basilikos said:


> Who knows.
> 
> Sorry if that seems like a cop out answer.  I honestly don't know what I'd do.  What I can tell you for sure is that I wouldn't be remotely pleased about that situation.
> 
> Frankly, the whole transexuality/gender identity crisis issue makes my head hurt half the time.


XD well...it's honest :33 She could be your soul-mate though...you never know....>u>

I imagine it causes quite the headache for people dealing with gender identity...I can't imagine not feeling like I'm not correct the gender, I feel so naturally right being a girl...so hard for me to imagine...seems real difficult...


----------



## Nep Nep (Aug 25, 2013)

To be honest I thought it was a woman. I'm sorry but most of the black women that live around here are far more hideous then that, in fact she's pretty average. 

Heck my neighbor who's black and female has to weigh about 800 pounds is even less attractive. 

I'm not trying to be racist it's just that in my area the average real black woman can't even scrape that level of er... beauty? 

That said I personally am not attracted to anyone who uses plastic surgery with the intent of making themselves better in their own eyes. I like women and I like em natural. That's right, not even with fake tits <.<  

A cup>Fake D cup


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Aug 25, 2013)

LesExit said:


> Why is that necessary though? Well I guess some people may feel like they've been lied to or whatever...but I don't get how. To transexual people their born gender was not correct, it's not what they felt they were supposed to be. I can't understand how people can get so angry knowing they were born a different sex. You like them as they are now, and how they are now is how they've always seen themselves and wanted themselves to be. To them their own bodies deceived them since birth. Whats the point in saying, I was a guy but now I'm a girl, what does that change o___O!? Would it confuse people? Perhaps make them question their sexuality or something? Like....she has a vagina but used to have a penis, so that means I'm sleeping with a guy, therefore am gay!?
> 
> I admit at first I might be like...woah, but if she was a nice person or I was in love with her...wheres the harm done?



To THEM. It's ultimately subjective. When other people are involved, as it pertains to intimate relationships, there comes that responsibility to disclose that very sensitive matter of transgenderism.

This is why regarding transgendered people, there's such a difficulty in acceptance. It's plain insensitive, and you have issues of many imposing their own standard of gender onto another person. If they are so secure, and so sure that the other individual will stay with them then disclosing this detail shouldn't matter at all. I shouldn't even begin to have to get into why it's necessary to disclose this in casual encounters.


----------



## Xyloxi (Aug 25, 2013)

I can appreciate why someone would feel betrayed about having sex with a transsexual, due to them not having sex with who they think they are entirely. It'd be something I would like to know with a sexual partner or someone I'm dating, but it wouldn't put me off them at all, just as long as they look like the gender they are. People saying that they'd kill a transsexual person for not telling them, on the other hand is not acceptable.


----------



## Saufsoldat (Aug 25, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> To THEM. It's ultimately subjective. When other people are involved, as it pertains to intimate relationships, there comes that responsibility to disclose that very sensitive matter of transgenderism.
> 
> This is why regarding transgendered people, there's such a difficulty in acceptance. It's plain insensitive, and you have issues of many imposing their own standard of gender onto another person. If they are so secure, and so sure that the other individual will stay with them then disclosing this detail shouldn't matter at all.* I shouldn't even begin to have to get into why it's necessary to disclose this in casual encounters.*



No, please do begin. I always wondered about this, why should a transgendered person be forced to run around with a sign about her birth sex? If a person chooses to have sex with a person they know nothing about and don't want to know anything about, why should a transgendered person have to go the extra mile?

I can understand someone getting angry if they're lied to, but if they never even cared for the transgendered person's past, then they have nothing to complain about.


----------



## Mael (Aug 25, 2013)

Damn it every time I keep seeing this thread I keep thinking it says "Transgendered Star Wars."


----------



## Saufsoldat (Aug 25, 2013)

Mael said:


> Damn it every time I keep seeing this thread I keep thinking it says "Transgendered Star Wars."



"I'm your mother Luke! Well, technically I'm your father, but please respect my life choices."

[sp][/sp]


----------



## Mael (Aug 25, 2013)

Saufsoldat said:


> "I'm your mother Luke! Well, technically I'm your father, but please respect my life choices."
> 
> [sp][/sp]



I see...no issue with this.


----------



## Xyloxi (Aug 25, 2013)

Mael said:


> I see...no issue with this.



What if she kept her penis?


----------



## kingcools (Aug 25, 2013)

Hand Banana said:


> *MY FUCKING EYESSSSS*



whats wrong with you?


----------



## ImperatorMortis (Aug 25, 2013)

ITT: Bigots being bigots

Also some of the posters here are disgusting human beings.


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## Mael (Aug 25, 2013)

Xyloxi said:


> What if she kept her penis?



And in that shape, Indy plz.


----------



## WT (Aug 25, 2013)

Definition of a woman is someone who has XX chromosomes. Anything else is not and will never be a woman.


----------



## Toroxus (Aug 25, 2013)

I personally can not relate to transgendered people in any way, and without much science on the topic, the only evidence is the anecdotal. However, since I am a human being with a conscience and a brain, I'm shocked and disgusted at some of the horrible comments here.


----------



## HolyHands (Aug 25, 2013)

Saufsoldat said:


> No, please do begin. I always wondered about this, why should a transgendered person be forced to run around with a sign about her birth sex? If a person chooses to have sex with a person they know nothing about and don't want to know anything about, why should a transgendered person have to go the extra mile?
> 
> I can understand someone getting angry if they're lied to, but if they never even cared for the transgendered person's past, then they have nothing to complain about.



It's pretty much like walking on a minefield with transgenders when it comes to dating and relationships.

Society as a whole is still pretty hostile towards trans, even in first-world countries, and everyone has their own standard on when a trans should reveal their birth sex. Obviously, the earlier they tell, the better. But there are plenty of people who would go apeshit if they even so much as felt attraction to a girl when they later find out she used to be a man. Then of course there are many safety reasons why a trans doesn't necessarily want to make her birth sex public, as death threats against transgenders are common, and are often carried out.

I hold the opinion that a transgender should reveal their birth sex towards any romantic partner they seek out, especially before sex, but at the same time I can perfectly sympathize why they are reluctant to do so.


----------



## Bioness (Aug 25, 2013)

Bishop said:


> You just attempted to justify personal irresponsibility with the fact that "others sometimes don't tell the truth either." This is a dismal argument at best; it shows how inept the person is.
> 
> With your example, I can feel okay deceiving a guy into sex because other people have done something similar. Oh, forget that I am my own person and that I am responsible for my actions, what matters is that other people have done wrong so it shouldn't be a big deal that I join the party.  That's an amiable gesture, but it is rudimentary in psychological and realistic affairs.



Not using it as a excuse to lie, just using it as a comparison to why people lie. And face it, everyone lies, some lies are just bigger than others.



> You based your post off of just sex (or at least that how it comes across as you avoided talking about anything else), but it is more than just sex.



Not intentionally, I had actually assumed that is what you were mainly referring to which is why I based the argument off of that. But yes if looking for a relationship that is something you need to be truthful about from the start.




> Focusing on that matter however, sex is psychological; you have to have mental imagery and so forth. Sex is personal. And most importantly, sex comes with certain pre-requisites (for smart people: Is the person clean, are they single, ect) and there are far more people who are smart and do this than what is portrayed on the Internetz and by bias groups. Fact is, most of the people who catch sti and std get it from fast sex (quickies, etc).



To add to this, simply being a quicky may not be it, but the people who are often to do "quickies" have likely had more sexual partners and possibly been bigger risk takers.




> But transgender isn't about sex, it's about a human being dating and partaking in emotional and sexual affairs with another human being. People with college degrees tend not to catch std or fall into the pits (I'll probably comeback with a source from NYT study) because they handle the bases first.
> 
> But transgender deception is pure malice, pure selfishness, pure risk.



Selfish and risky sure, but malice? How the hell would it count as malice? Most are so terrified and have probably been rejected by the last 20 people they told so are afraid of it happening again. Though yes there are likely some who do it on purpose and thus might be out of malice but most certainly are not.



> You cannot justify a person putting their faith in another and being "probably happy to live in the illusion" of thinking they are with a certain gender. That's not even a valid approach, there aren't even studies to even question if the person is okay not knowing what gender you are. Practically NO ONE is fine with just guessing their lover is the gender they look like. eHarmony and New York school districts are recommending people to ask if their prospective lover is transgender, and they are getting flack; that's how you know activist are trying to protect selfish insecurities. The AIDs campaign will come out next year promoting people to ask if the other person is transgender before partaking in sex.
> 
> The fact is, your decision affects others. No one has the right to judge anyone else, therefore, be honest with yourself, then be honest with others. This isn't something worth fighting for when it gets you killed; find ways to figure how tolerant your prospective lover is of transgenders, then make the decision to tell him or her, or walk away-- lying and causing devastating pain simply because others potentially do it isn't a good excuse, especially when is ends up getting you killed (like many transgenders in US, Australia and Britain),



The rest of this goes back to my first point of me trying to explain why they do it, not downplay what they do, but certainly not turning them into some sort of baby murder rapist like part of your post and Gunners makes them out to be.


----------



## Bioness (Aug 25, 2013)

Mael said:


> Damn it every time I keep seeing this thread I keep thinking it says "Transgendered Star Wars."



Terrible quality but this matches that.

[YOUTUBE]LwHVVRoE2p4[/YOUTUBE]

"Go fuck yourself"
"I did! That's why I'm your father AND your mother!"


----------



## Bishop (Aug 25, 2013)

Bioness said:


> Not using it as a excuse to lie, just using it as a comparison to why people lie. And face it, everyone lies, some lies are just bigger than others.


Once again, this leads back to the justification of personal irresponsibility. I have no issue with the lies until I realize that these people are often physically beaten and killed.





> Not intentionally, I had actually assumed that is what you were mainly referring to which is why I based the argument off of that. But yes if looking for a relationship that is something you need to be truthful about from the start.



Good 




> To add to this, simply being a quicky may not be it, but the people who are often to do "quickies" have likely had more sexual partners and possibly been bigger risk takers.



True.



> Selfish and risky sure, but malice? How the hell would it count as malice? Most are so terrified and have probably been rejected by the last 20 people they told so are afraid of it happening again. Though yes there are likely some who do it on purpose and thus might be out of malice but most certainly are not.


Because it is the desire to hurt others in order to gain something. I am having sex with you without your knowledge that I used to have a dick in order to get the dick. Also, that's is a factor of being transgender; you have by-products of being something and have to deal with it. A by-product of being a transgender is rejection; no reason to lie to others so you feel good.




> The rest of this goes back to my first point of me trying to explain why they do it, not downplay what they do, but certainly not turning them into some sort of baby murder rapist like part of your post and Gunners makes them out to be.


The hell? Baby murder rapist? That's too far; I don't even elude to that point. I state facts: deception is wrong and is done irresponsibly. How do you get baby murder rapists?


----------



## Bioness (Aug 25, 2013)

Bishop said:


> The hell? Baby murder rapist? That's too far; I don't even elude to that point. I state facts: deception is wrong and is done irresponsibly. How do you get baby murder rapists?



The whole malice part, but mostly that was regarding what Gunners thinks.

How about any plastic surgery then? If you used to look really ugly and had work done isn't that analogous to this whole "deception" idea of yours. I'm sure you remember that one article about the guy suing his wife for the ugly baby after she had 100,000 dollars worth of plastic surgery done and didn't tell him.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Aug 25, 2013)

I think that's a stupid comparison, Bioness.


----------



## Bishop (Aug 25, 2013)

Bioness said:


> The whole malice part, but mostly that was regarding what Gunners thinks.
> 
> How about any plastic surgery then? If you used to look really ugly and had work done isn't that analogous to this whole "deception" idea of yours. I'm sure you remember that one article about the guy suing his wife for the ugly baby after she had 100,000 dollars worth of plastic surgery done.



I'm not Gunners, don't group me with him (though I haven't seen his posts).

That's a fine example as the guy was deceived and the courts agreed. He thought he had one thing coming but was done wrong; now his legacy looks fugly. In the end, however, the shot to the heart and ego (in academic terms, not ego like how media uses it to me arrogant) is far more alarming when sleeping with a different gender than you thought- to most people.

I could run a poll in the debate corner asking if people care if they were deceived by their lover, but the thread would be closed as the debate corner is cray cray and people would start talking about religion.


----------



## Xyloxi (Aug 25, 2013)

Bishop said:


> I'm not Gunners, don't group me with him (though I haven't seen his posts).
> 
> That's a fine example as the guy was deceived and the courts agreed. He thought he had one thing coming but was done wrong; now his legacy looks fugly. In the end, however, the shot to the heart and ego (in academic terms, not ego like how media uses it to me arrogant) is far more alarming when sleeping with a different gender than you thought- to most people.
> 
> I could run a poll in the debate corner asking if people care if they were deceived by their lover, but the thread would be closed as the debate corner is cray cray and people would start talking about religion.



Gunners said something along the lines of they'd be dead if they deceived him. 

I'll take your word for that, as that's something I personally am not able to understand due to who I am as opposed to most heterosexuals or homosexuals. In my own personal opinion, I'd say that the identity of a transsexual is only important in something more longterm, as if it's just two people hooking up, I don't see where their identity would come into play, as both parties aren't going to be thinking about more than sex. Telling somebody at the alter that you used to have the body of the other gender is a different kettle of fish though.


----------



## Bioness (Aug 25, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> I think that's a stupid comparison, Bioness.



Unless you're planning on having a relationship or children, my comparison is spot on. And again I am strictly talking short term sexual relationships.



Bishop said:


> I'm not Gunners, don't group me with him (though I haven't seen his posts).
> 
> That's a fine example as the guy was deceived and the courts agreed. He thought he had one thing coming but was done wrong; now his legacy looks fugly. In the end, however, the shot to the heart and ego (in academic terms, not ego like how media uses it to me arrogant) is far more alarming when sleeping with a different gender than you thought- to most people.
> 
> I could run a poll in the debate corner asking if people care if they were deceived by their lover, but the thread would be closed as the debate corner is cray cray and people would start talking about religion.



I know what people think Bishop. I'm only attempting to probe the reasons why this is ranked as such a higher sin than other deceptions that are similar.



Xyloxi said:


> Gunners said something along the lines of they'd be dead if they deceived him.
> 
> I'll take your word for that, as that's something I personally am not able to understand due to who I am as opposed to most heterosexuals or homosexuals. In my own personal opinion, I'd say that the identity of a transsexual is only important in something more longterm, as if it's just two people hooking up, I don't see where their identity would come into play, as both parties aren't going to be thinking about more than sex. Telling somebody at the alter that you used to have the body of the other gender is a different kettle of fish though.



This is my view on it, if it is just a fuck why does it matter? You clearly didn't bother to learn enough about them before sex, so why care now.


----------



## Bishop (Aug 25, 2013)

Xyloxi said:


> Gunners said something along the lines of they'd be dead if they deceived him.
> 
> I'll take your word for that, as that's something I personally am not able to understand due to who I am as opposed to most heterosexuals or homosexuals. In my own personal opinion, I'd say that the identity of a transsexual is only important in something more longterm, as if it's just two people hooking up, I don't see where their identity would come into play, as both parties aren't going to be thinking about more than sex. Telling somebody at the alter that you used to have the body of the other gender is a different kettle of fish though.



That's the point of deception. Ethics dictate that if it is important to both people, that hiding it is deception/fraudulent. Do you believe when two people hook up, neither care about the birth gender of the other? Two years ago, people just assumed and took it for granted; steps are being taken to promote that you ask before you bash.

In places like Sweden, south east US and other places, the common practice is becoming: Asking if the other person is clean of infections, single and born of the same gender. 

With that said, Gunners is not a minority in saying he'd kill someone who deceived him to that extent; many transsexuals are killed every year for the deceit and embarrassment they cause others.

*EDIT*: I know that sounds harsh. It is key to understand that I don't condone nor condemn transsexuals; no one has the right to judge. I am most concerned with them staying alive and with them not lying to others. I do not believe any should be killed. I am not a Republican nor an agent of the GOP committee sent to convert any of you. I do not buy Axe body spray nor am I aaprt of the Illuminati.


----------



## Saufsoldat (Aug 25, 2013)

HolyHands said:


> It's pretty much like walking on a minefield with transgenders when it comes to dating and relationships.
> 
> Society as a whole is still pretty hostile towards trans, even in first-world countries, and everyone has their own standard on when a trans should reveal their birth sex. Obviously, the earlier they tell, the better. But there are plenty of people who would go apeshit if they even so much as felt attraction to a girl when they later find out she used to be a man. Then of course there are many safety reasons why a trans doesn't necessarily want to make her birth sex public, as death threats against transgenders are common, and are often carried out.
> 
> I hold the opinion that a transgender should reveal their birth sex towards any romantic partner they seek out, especially before sex, but at the same time I can perfectly sympathize why they are reluctant to do so.



I agree that they should reveal it to anyone they plan on getting in a relationship with, I just don't see why they should have to tell someone who is only out for casual sex.


----------



## WT (Aug 25, 2013)

Saufsoldat said:


> I just don't see why they should have to tell someone who is only out for casual sex.



Because the person they're duping believes they're having sex with a genuine woman. Before you start debating about what is genuine, its "genuine" in the perspective of the person being scammed. That's worse than having sex with someone and not telling them that you've got aids.


----------



## Basilikos (Aug 25, 2013)

Toroxus said:


> I personally can not relate to transgendered people in any way, and without much science on the topic, the only evidence is the anecdotal. However, since I am a human being with a conscience and a brain, *I'm shocked and disgusted at some of the horrible comments here*.


Those comments are hardly worse than your plethora of past comments white knighting pedophilia.  Consciences and brains can be very selective, apparently.



White Tiger said:


> Because the person they're duping believes they're having sex with a genuine woman. Before you start debating about what is genuine, its "genuine" in the perspective of the person being scammed. That's worse than having sex with someone and not telling them that you've got aids.


It's a dishonest and selfish thing for a transexual person to do, yes.  But worse than a situation involving AIDS?  I wouldn't go that far.


----------



## Saufsoldat (Aug 25, 2013)

White Tiger said:


> Because the person they're duping believes they're having sex with a genuine woman. Before you start debating about what is genuine, its "genuine" in the perspective of the person being scammed.



So if I have sex with a woman who has fake tits, she's duping me? And if I take viagra before having sex with a woman, I'm duping her? I don't see why the perception of another matters here. Unless they tell you explicitely that they're looking for sex with a woman who was also born with female sexual features, then there's no duping going on. They consent to sex with a stranger, they have sex with that stranger, both parties go home.



> That's worse than having sex with someone and not telling them that you've got aids.



You have some serious issues with your sexuality if that's your actual opinion.


----------



## LesExit (Aug 25, 2013)

White Tiger said:


> Because the person they're duping believes they're having sex with a genuine woman. Before you start debating about what is genuine, its "genuine" in the perspective of the person being scammed. That's worse than having sex with someone and not telling them that you've got aids.


XD how is that worse than having sex with someone who didn't tell you they have aids...? Having sex with a transgendered person isn't going to hurt you. I feel like the main concern is just people becoming extremely distraught because of their sexuality. Perhaps the main reason I don't feel too bothered by this is because I see sexuality as a fluid thing, which is probably better off without labels in many cases. However I do think of course the person should tell their significant other if they get into a serious relationship, it is a large part of their life. If that person truly cares about them, I would like to think they'd be able to accept their past and not think that this new information turns everything they did and felt for each other into some lie.


----------



## Kafuka de Vil (Aug 25, 2013)

Threads like this hit home just how insecure men are with anything that threatens their exaggerated and overblown masculinity. If something opposes it it’s to be struck at: It isn’t a woman if not born one, blah, blah, my insecure little cock prevents me from finding some girl that once upon a time happened to have a dick cute – I don’t wanna look homo, it’s disgusting, mah penis feels threatened, blah.

On the other hand, I’ve always been surprised at how generally more supportive and open women are to transgenderism.

Just one of the many reason why it’s preferable to be a woman.


----------



## Sanity Check (Aug 25, 2013)

What's the difference between a woman who chops off a mans pee pee, when she learns he cheated on her?

And a man who assaults his wife when he learns she used to be a man?

Why is one extremely objectionable, and the other a cause for laughs?  

Its somewhat normal for people to freak out when they feel insulted, lied to, betrayed, etc?  Or if its not normal, at least somewhat common?


----------



## LesExit (Aug 25, 2013)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> What's the difference between a woman who chops off a mans pee pee, when she learns he cheated on her?
> 
> And a man who assaults his wife when he learns she used to be a man?
> 
> ...


Aren't both of those extremely terrible and objectionable ⊙▃⊙

I don't get why some people laughed at that. I think it's largely from the ridiculousness of the incident...I mean cutting off a mans penis?? ugh...just...what??? 

Anyways both are terrible acts which shouldn't be done, I don't think we should try to make either one the greater evil of the two...they're both screwed up .__.!


MbS said:


> Threads like this hit home just how insecure men are with anything that threatens their exaggerated and overblown masculinity. If something opposes it it’s to be struck at: *It isn’t a woman if not born one, blah, blah, my insecure little cock prevents me from finding some girl that once upon a time happened to have a dick cute – I don’t wanna look homo, it’s disgusting, mah penis feels threatened, blah.*


You worded if in a pretty in-sensitive way ...but ya I do feel like this is the main reason people get so angry, which I find ridiculous...


----------



## Sanity Check (Aug 25, 2013)

LesExit said:


> Aren't both of those extremely terrible and objectionable ⊙▃⊙
> 
> I don't get why some people laughed at that. I think it's largely from the ridiculousness of the incident...I mean cutting off a mans penis?? ugh...just...what???
> 
> Anyways both are terrible acts which shouldn't be done, I don't think we should try to make either one the greater evil of the two...they're both screwed up .__.!



I agree, it is terrible.

But, I do question the sentiment people have in thinking we should be emotionless robots completely devoid of feeling.  Its not reasonable to criticize people for being human and feeling betrayed because they found out their wife is a transexual.  

Feeling betrayed under those circumstances is completely normal.  

No different from feeling betrayed because their partner cheated or lied about something important.

Its not a LGBT issue or oppression against LGBT's if people get mad or feel betrayed when they're deceived.  Its a normal reaction.


----------



## Basilikos (Aug 25, 2013)

MbS said:


> Threads like this hit home just how insecure men are with anything that threatens their exaggerated and overblown masculinity. If something opposes it it?s to be struck at: It isn?t a woman if not born one, blah, blah, my insecure little cock prevents me from finding some girl that once upon a time happened to have a dick cute ? I don?t wanna look homo, it?s disgusting, mah penis feels threatened, blah.
> 
> On the other hand, I?ve always been surprised at how generally more supportive and open women are to transgenderism.
> 
> Just one of the many reason why it?s preferable to be a woman.


Someone's enjoying her trolling spree, yesiree.


----------



## Mider T (Aug 25, 2013)

MbS said:


> Threads like this hit home just how insecure men are with anything that threatens their exaggerated and overblown masculinity. If something opposes it it?s to be struck at: It isn?t a woman if not born one, blah, blah, my insecure little cock prevents me from finding some girl that once upon a time happened to have a dick cute ? I don?t wanna look homo, it?s disgusting, mah penis feels threatened, blah.
> 
> On the other hand, I?ve always been surprised at how generally more supportive and open women are to transgenderism.
> 
> Just one of the many reason why it?s preferable to be a woman.



It's funny to see how somebody too feminine to cut it as a man tries to talk down to real men.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Aug 25, 2013)

LesExit said:


> Aren't both of those extremely terrible and objectionable ⊙▃⊙
> 
> I don't get why some people laughed at that. I think it's largely from the ridiculousness of the incident...I mean cutting off a mans penis?? ugh...just...what???
> 
> ...



It's his mentality that causes such a rift when it comes to transgender issues in the first place. There just exists part of the population that has little regard for other's feelings. If there really is a security in one's identity I do not see the problem in being honest about one being transgendered. I try to respect their personal decisions on the matter, but they have to realize the standard is not an objective one.


----------



## Bishop (Aug 25, 2013)

One of the only times I will agree with the member formally known as Seto Kaiba.


----------



## LesExit (Aug 25, 2013)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> I agree, it is terrible.
> 
> But, I do question the sentiment people have in thinking we should be emotionless robots completely devoid of feeling.  Its not reasonable to criticize people for being human and feeling betrayed because they found out their wife is a transexual.
> 
> ...


I think it's fine for people to feel those feelings. Especially if it's their wife. The person being born a different gender is something that should be discussed before marriage I think O___O I don't think a person should feel "Oh my god, my wife was biologically born a man, therefore I've been with a man all this time, and I'm not gay. How could she not tell me this?" I think that idea is what causes people so much upset. 

I guess I expect too much of people based on how I feel, and forget that we're growing up in a society where transsexuality is still very tender and new in peoples minds. Most people still view sexuality and gender as a very black and white thing, maybe in a few generations more and more people will realize it's not that simple, and people will also feel less shame for being non-heterosexual. So finding out that your husband was born biologically a women, wouldn't really effect people like it does today. Or I have my hopes up too high like usual XD


Seto Kaiba said:


> It's his mentality that causes such a rift when it comes to transgender issues in the first place. There just exists part of the population that has little regard for other's feelings. If there really is a security in one's identity I do not see the problem in being honest about one being transgendered. I try to respect their personal decisions on the matter, but they have to realize the standard is not an objective one.


I think they should be honest too, but it's not something they need to wear on their sleeve. I don't really know if I find it necessary for them to say that to a person they go home with from the bar, but ya if they form a romantic relationship with someone it should come up. I guess many are afraid of being rejected and/or don't want to bring up their born biologically gender because it's something that they too might rather forget. 
I respect what you're saying though. I'm probably just really bias cause it's something I myself have a hard time seeing as such a terrible thing, to sleep with a women who was biologically born a man.


----------



## Xyloxi (Aug 25, 2013)

Mider T said:


> It's funny to see how somebody too feminine to cut it as a man tries to talk down to real men.



Whilst the first paragraph was rather blunt, MBS hit the nail on the head. A lot of heterosexual men are insecure in regards to this issue, to the point that some decide that violence is the correct response, of course nobody likes being lied to, which is perfectly understandable.


----------



## WT (Aug 25, 2013)

Saufsoldat said:


> So if I have sex with a woman who has fake tits, she's duping me? And if I take viagra before having sex with a woman, I'm duping her? I don't see why the perception of another matters here. Unless they tell you explicitely that they're looking for sex with a woman who was also born with female sexual features, then there's no duping going on. They consent to sex with a stranger, they have sex with that stranger, both parties go home.



You're honestly going to debate that having fake tits or taking viagra is on the same page as *attempting* to change your fucking sexuality and then fuck a straight male? That's a whole new level. Fake tits may even be quite fun but an ex guy? You gotta be nuts to think they're the same thing. 



> You have some serious issues with your sexuality if that's your actual opinion.



See my response to MbS's post below.



MbS said:


> Threads like this hit home just how insecure men are with anything that threatens their *exaggerated and overblown* masculinity. If something opposes it it’s to be struck at: It isn’t a woman if not born one, blah, blah, my insecure *little* cock prevents me from finding some girl that once upon a time happened to have a dick cute – I don’t wanna look homo, it’s disgusting, mah penis feels threatened, blah.



In all honestly, you've pretty much nailed it, although I've bolded and have made red the parts which I don't agree with. 

I am pretty fucking insecure when it comes to my sexuality and if I ever was to come into contact with anything that would hurt my masculinity in the slightest, I would walk away. If I'm honest, sex with a transgender would be homosexuality in my eyes and hence, why I'm staunchly against the non disclosure made by transsexuals. 

The only thing I've learnt is that it changes from people to people. For example, Saufsoldat has made it pretty clear that he wouldn't mind shagging a transexual. I would. ALOT.

I'm sorry, I'm too arrogant and egotistical as a man to ever accept a transsexual as a woman.


----------



## Toroxus (Aug 26, 2013)

Basilikos said:


> Those comments are hardly worse than your plethora of past comments white knighting pedophilia.  Consciences and brains can be very selective, apparently.



And some brains sure seem to be very selective when it comes to reading. What with the re-arranging, subtracting, and adding words into statements that they read so that an entirely new statement is formed completely unrelated to the original. That's called a "Strawman" and I've found that those types are caused by three things:
1. Terrible reading comprehension.
2. Inability to debate/Vilifying.
3. Insanity/Deluding reality.

Sometimes by all three. 
Take your nonsense somewhere else, McCarthy.


----------



## Xyloxi (Aug 26, 2013)

White Tiger said:


> have made red the parts which I don't agree with.
> 
> I am pretty fucking insecure when it comes to my sexuality and if I ever was to come into contact with anything that would hurt my masculinity in the slightest, I would walk away. If I'm honest, sex with a transgender would be homosexuality in my eyes and hence, why I'm staunchly against the non disclosure made by transsexuals.
> .



Fair enough, everybody should have the right to decide who they want to have sex with. Out of curiosity, what would you consider a man having sex with a female to male transsexual to be? As I'd imagine you wouldn't consider the transsexual person to be a man?


----------



## WT (Aug 26, 2013)

You know what, that's a damn good and thought provoking question. 

I guess I'd answer it by breaking it into the following scenarios:

Definitions:

MTF - male to female transgender
FTM - female to male transgender

Situation 1)

a) MTF dupes a guy who doesn't know

MTF is a homosexual 
Guy who does't know is a victim

b) MTF has sex with a guy who knows 

MTF is a homo
Guy is most closest to being a bisexual

c/d Same as above but with FTM and female

e) Male with FTM

Male is gay
FTM is closest to straight but fucked in the head

f) MTF with female - same as above

g) MTF with FTM

Both are fucked in the head


----------



## Godly Giraffe - King of the Uverworld (Aug 26, 2013)

Not gonna lie, as "judgmental" or "scornful" as some of you may say White Tiger is, he's so far the only poster on here that's made me crack up.


----------



## Saufsoldat (Aug 26, 2013)

When in doubt, everyone except White Tiger is gay.


----------



## Saufsoldat (Aug 26, 2013)

White Tiger said:


> a) MTF dupes a guy who doesn't know
> 
> MTF is a homosexual
> Guy who does't know is a victim
> ...



What's the difference? If they had sex, both felt a sexual attraction, which defines sexual orientation. How can knowledge about your sexual partner's past influence your sexual orientation?

Let's assume we have situation a) and then guy finds out later on. According to you, if he just shrugs it off, he becomes gay, but if he's upset about it, he remains straight. How does that make any sense in your head?


----------



## WT (Aug 26, 2013)

Saufsoldat said:


> What's the difference? If they had sex, both felt a sexual attraction, which defines sexual orientation. How can knowledge about your sexual partner's past influence your sexual orientation?
> 
> Let's assume we have situation a) and then guy finds out later on. According to you, if he just shrugs it off, he becomes gay, but if he's upset about it, he remains straight. How does that make any sense in your head?



I'll break it down. Now not saying this applies to everyone but it sure as hell does apply to me.

Now, I'll be the first to admit that my standards are fairly strange but here it goes:

If someone is genetically a male or a female (xy/xx chromosomes) and have had surgery to change this, they'll always have a strong male/female presence about them therefore I won't acknowledge their genders have changed. 

If a guy has sex with an MTF without knowing and later find out, if they're disgusted by it, they've acknowledged the fact that I've mentioned above, that one can only be male/female if they're genetically born that way which in my eyes makes them straight because they were tricked. 

If however, they shrug it off, they haven't acknowledged that fact and consider that people are surgically able to change their genders. Now, I guess this has enlightened me in some ways as I've come to conclusion as to what I believe a heterosexual orientation is:

White Tiger's definition:

Someone who is attracted to and is willing to have sex with one of the opposite gender *knowing they were born that way.* 

That last part is an addition I've just made to what I believe a hetero is. Therefore, the second example you've mentioned doesn't fall within this definition and therefore, they're probably a homo or bi.


----------



## Bioness (Aug 26, 2013)

How you think that line of thinking is correct is beyond me, but at least you admit it.


----------



## Byrd (Aug 26, 2013)

My only problem is the confusion... I don't care if one becomes one or not... its their decision after all. I was almost trick into talking to a transgender...shit is scary but luckily, I caught on to his/her jaw structure and face and knew that was a man before... Quickly turn tail and disappeared.


----------



## lacey (Aug 26, 2013)

I keep having this urge to check this thread, and then I regret it immediately after. 

Nothing but a massive headache inducer.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Aug 26, 2013)

Tranexuals should tell anyone they're going to have sexual contact with or start a relationship with, what their biological gender is. It's as simple as that.


----------



## Xyloxi (Aug 26, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> My only problem is the confusion... I don't care if one becomes one or not... its their decision after all. I was almost trick into talking to a transgender...shit is scary but luckily, I caught on to his/her jaw structure and face and knew that was a man before... Quickly turn tail and disappeared.



Who knows what scary things would have happened if you'd spoken to that transsexual?


----------



## Bioness (Aug 26, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> My only problem is the confusion... I don't care if one becomes one or not... its their decision after all. *I was almost trick into talking to a transgender...shit is scary but luckily*, I caught on to his/her jaw structure and face and knew that was a man before... Quickly turn tail and disappeared.


----------



## ImperatorMortis (Aug 26, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> My only problem is the confusion... I don't care if one becomes one or not... its their decision after all.* I was almost trick into talking to a transgender...shit is scary* but luckily, I caught on to his/her jaw structure and face and knew that was a man before... Quickly turn tail and disappeared.



You were _scared_ to talk to a transgender? 

lmao

There was definitely a ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) involved in this situation, and it certainly wasn't the tranny.


----------



## Saufsoldat (Aug 26, 2013)

White Tiger said:


> If someone is genetically a male or a female (xy/xx chromosomes) and have had surgery to change this, they'll always have a strong male/female presence about them therefore I won't acknowledge their genders have changed.



LOOK AT THIS WOMANLY WOMAN AND HER STRONG FEMALE PRESENCE!











Now please tell me the birth sex of each of these men.


----------



## Evil Ghost Ninja (Aug 26, 2013)

Is the the first one buck angel?


----------



## LesExit (Aug 26, 2013)

Byrdman said:


> My only problem is the confusion... I don't care if one becomes one or not... its their decision after all. *I was almost trick into talking to a transgender...shit is scary but luckily*, I caught on to his/her jaw structure and face and knew that was a man before... Quickly turn tail and disappeared.


 what? 
Do you mean that you were gonna ask her out or something maybe? I don't know o____o


Saufsoldat said:


> LOOK AT THIS WOMANLY WOMAN AND HER STRONG FEMALE PRESENCE!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


...they'd fool me :33


----------



## MegaultraHay (Aug 26, 2013)

ImperatorMortis said:


> ITT: Bigots being bigots
> 
> Also some of the posters here are disgusting human beings.



Quit your whining.


----------



## WT (Aug 26, 2013)

Saufsoldat said:


> LOOK AT THIS WOMANLY WOMAN AND HER STRONG FEMALE PRESENCE!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This entire discussion is revolved around being duped therefore I've implicitly admitted that it may be difficult to know if one is a transgender or not so don't know what kind of point you're trying to make.

Now having said that, you can get the sexiest of women. I might even believe that until you tell me that it was once a dude.

I'd obviously start thinking of that person as a man after that.


----------



## Xyloxi (Aug 26, 2013)

White Tiger said:


> This entire discussion is revolved around being duped therefore I've implicitly admitted that it may be difficult to know if one is a transgender or not so don't know what kind of point you're trying to make.
> 
> Now having said that, you can get the sexiest of women. I might even believe that until you tell me that it was once a dude.
> 
> I'd obviously start thinking of that person as a man after that.



Out of interest, after finding out that somebody is transsexual, would you address them as the gender they wish to be addressed as or as how you perceive them to be?


----------



## Aion Hysteria (Aug 26, 2013)

ImperatorMortis said:


> You were _scared_ to talk to a transgender?
> 
> lmao
> 
> There was definitely a ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) involved in this situation, and it certainly wasn't the tranny.




Pretty much.​


----------



## Saufsoldat (Aug 26, 2013)

White Tiger said:


> This entire discussion is revolved around being duped therefore I've implicitly admitted that it may be difficult to know if one is a transgender or not so don't know what kind of point you're trying to make.
> 
> Now having said that, you can get the sexiest of women. I might even believe that until you tell me that it was once a dude.
> 
> I'd obviously start thinking of that person as a man after that.



My point was that you're full of shit. You said:



> If someone is genetically a male or a female (xy/xx chromosomes) and have had surgery to change this, they'll always have a strong male/female presence about them therefore I won't acknowledge their genders have changed.



which is evidently bullshit.


----------



## Nep Nep (Aug 26, 2013)

MbS said:


> Threads like this hit home just how insecure men are with anything that threatens their exaggerated and overblown masculinity. If something opposes it it’s to be struck at: It isn’t a woman if not born one, blah, blah, my insecure little cock prevents me from finding some girl that once upon a time happened to have a dick cute – I don’t wanna look homo, it’s disgusting, mah penis feels threatened, blah.
> 
> On the other hand, I’ve always been surprised at how generally more supportive and open women are to transgenderism.
> 
> Just one of the many reason why it’s preferable to be a woman.



Now we can't even respect each others sexual orientation? 

Also don't generalize the genders or anything for that matter, it's just a stupid thing to do. 

I like women, I do not want to fuck a man regardless of what genitalia he now has. You can't give me chicken and tell me it's steak. I want STEAK.  

If I'm about to bang some woman (which I never just do I always start a relationship before just banging a woman) then that woman should certainly tell me she was born a man, it doesn't matter that both parties just wanted to get laid, it's about respecting ones orientation. 

I love how people like you are always blaming it on insecurity. Shall I make you fuck a person of a gender that you are not attracted to? No. 

Everyone has the right to their orientation and to have sex with the gender they're attracted to, there should be no deception in that.


----------



## Deleted member 234422 (Aug 26, 2013)

Saufsoldat said:


> My point was that you're full of shit. You said:
> 
> 
> 
> which is evidently bullshit.



What is wrong with basing sex labels on healthy sex chromosomes?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 26, 2013)

Sorry, but the funniest thing in this thread is watching White Tiger back pedal from his disgusting hatred of all things unlike himself only to go on arguing with others about it.


----------



## ImperatorMortis (Aug 26, 2013)

MegaultraHay said:


> Quit your whining.



Fuck you I say what I want.


----------



## Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki (Aug 26, 2013)

While I am strongly pro-transexual rights...



Kyokkai said:


> I like women, I do not want to fuck a man regardless of what genitalia he now has. You can't give me chicken and tell me it's steak. I want STEAK.
> 
> If I'm about to bang some woman (which I never just do I always start a relationship before just banging a woman) then that woman should certainly tell me she was born a man, it doesn't matter that both parties just wanted to get laid, it's about respecting ones orientation.
> 
> ...



I agree with this to a degree. We get into a very interesting question of consent.

When two people agree to have sex it's generally agreed upon that it's a good idea that both people want to do it.

It's problematic if one party withholds information that might be vital to the other party's decision to have sex or not.

We can argue left and right about this, but ultimately it's about what someone feels in response to something else. I'm pretty sure I would feel violated if a woman I had sex with turned out to be a man. That's not my choice feeling violated. That's just how I feel about it.


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (Aug 26, 2013)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Tranexuals should tell anyone they're going to have sexual contact with or start a relationship with, what their biological gender is. It's as simple as that.



I agree with this wholeheartedly. A good rule of thumb to go by is if you have to think about it for even one second, hit the eject button immediately.

A lot of you in this thread are really tripping over yourselves to come off as politically correct as possible, but I seriously wonder whether your tune will change when it's time to bang a tranny. It's EXACTLY THE SAME, right? 

Dude shouldn't have killed her, but I honestly don't even want to think about what my reaction to such deception would be.


----------



## Ceria (Aug 26, 2013)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Tranexuals should tell anyone they're going to have sexual contact with or start a relationship with, what their biological gender is. It's as simple as that.



I think that's in the same category as religious belief, whether you're jedi or sith, it's about being honest and upfront with someone you might be intimate with.


----------



## TenshiNeko (Aug 26, 2013)

Saufsoldat said:


> LOOK AT THIS WOMANLY WOMAN AND HER STRONG FEMALE PRESENCE!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If these are FTM trans-sexuals, they may look manly in the pictures, but chances are they're lacking in the male parts department. I just read recently that while doctors are fairly good at constructing female genitalia for the MTF transgendered, they are not as successful constructing male genitalia for the FTMs. Besides that, apparently only 30 something percent of FTMs even have the doctors try to give them male parts. So, basically 60+% just have their boobs removed and a hysterectomy, then take male hormones to make them appear masculine.... No balls, no dick, just an enlarged clit from the steroids. 

How can anyone actually consider that a man? Are they just trying to be really PC? I would, of course, refer to that person as "he" because that's what's polite, but...... these "men" aren't going to be fooling many ladies in the bedroom like the MTFs might


----------



## DaKakz (Aug 26, 2013)

That's why you should never laugh at internet haterz when they threaten to kill you online.

'cause they may actually do it.


----------



## Saufsoldat (Aug 27, 2013)

Ayanli said:


> What is wrong with basing sex labels on healthy sex chromosomes?



Do you have the attention span of a three-year-old or why did you only read the first eleven words of what I quoted instead of the whole sentence?



TenshiNeko said:


> If these are FTM trans-sexuals, they may look manly in the pictures, but chances are they're lacking in the male parts department. I just read recently that while doctors are fairly good at constructing female genitalia for the MTF transgendered, they are not as successful constructing male genitalia for the FTMs. Besides that, apparently only 30 something percent of FTMs even have the doctors try to give them male parts. So, basically 60+% just have their boobs removed and a hysterectomy, then take male hormones to make them appear masculine.... No balls, no dick, just an enlarged clit from the steroids.
> 
> How can anyone actually consider that a man? Are they just trying to be really PC? I would, of course, refer to that person as "he" because that's what's polite, but...... these "men" aren't going to be fooling many ladies in the bedroom like the MTFs might



So because they don't have a dick, they're still female? That means a man having sex with one of them would still be perfectly straight? Now you're just being ridiculous.

They're men in all other intents and purposes of body and mind, why does the lack of a penis immediately bring you to the conclusion that they're still females?


----------



## Deleted member 234422 (Aug 27, 2013)

Saufsoldat said:


> Do you have the attention span of a three-year-old or why did you only read the first eleven words of what I quoted instead of the whole sentence?




I interpreted differently, as in his own feelings about their presence would solely be based on their sex chromosomes rather than his own declaration that XX/XY just exude masculinity/femininity irrespective of their gender choices.


----------



## Saufsoldat (Aug 27, 2013)

Ayanli said:


> I interpreted differently, as in his own feelings about their presence would solely be based on their sex chromosomes rather than his own declaration that XX/XY just exude masculinity/femininity irrespective of their gender choices.



He didn't talk about his feelings though, he talked about the "presence" of transgendered people being that of their original birth sex.


----------



## WT (Aug 27, 2013)

Saufsoldat said:


> My point was that you're full of shit. You said:
> 
> 
> 
> which is evidently bullshit.



No, you misunderstood what I said. I was saying that their core or essence was of a male (MTF) therefore, even though initially, they may have appeared a female but once knowing that this person was once a male would completely change my perception of them.


----------



## WT (Aug 27, 2013)

Xyloxi said:


> Out of interest, after finding out that somebody is transsexual, would you address them as the gender they wish to be addressed as or as how you perceive them to be?



By what they want to be called. 

So I'd call an MTF "miss" or "madam". 

I may think like a douchebag but I would never act like one in reality. Its the same with gay people. I'd genuinely be as nice as I can be to them. We're all human beings after all


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## Seto Kaiba (Aug 27, 2013)

Saufsoldat said:


> Do you have the attention span of a three-year-old or why did you only read the first eleven words of what I quoted instead of the whole sentence?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Technically they are female, you're getting way too riled up. He wasn't saying that out of malice, but it is correct.


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## αce (Aug 27, 2013)

Somehow the cafe has become even more shit after Hikawa left


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## TenshiNeko (Aug 27, 2013)

Saufsoldat said:


> So because they don't have a dick, they're still female? That means a man having sex with one of them would still be perfectly straight? Now you're just being ridiculous.
> 
> They're men in all other intents and purposes of body and mind, why does the lack of a penis immediately bring you to the conclusion that they're still females?



Since they have female genitalia, they are not male. I wouldn't exactly call them female anymore either, more like a surgically created hermaphrodites. Sorry if that's not PC, but it's the truth. Their bodies are not male, they're just altered and on steroids so they can _appear_ to be male. 

I don't care if _in their minds_ they believe they've always been male. Thinking you're something doesn't make you that something. Maybe in _my_ mind I've always been part of the British royal family. My mind is just trapped in the wrong body. If I get plastic surgery to look like the Queen when she was young, I should be able to hop a plane, zip right over and move into Buck Palace, right? Everyone should accept it, as long as I make myself _appear_ to be a royal, and I say that _in my mind_ it's always been true. 


Biologically, I'm not a royal. That shouldn't matter. Biologically, those "men" are not men. They don't have male bodies, male parts, or male chromosomes. They've just been made to _look_ like males. They once surgically altered a goat so it had one horn on its forehead like a unicorn, but that didn't make it an actual unicorn


....and yeah, imo, to quote Shin Chan, ..._"To be a man you must have honor, ...honor AND A PENIS"_


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