# Rematch: Post-TS Bellamy vs Pre-skip Luffy.



## Quuon (May 15, 2013)

Location: Tournament Arena 

Mindset: Bloodlusted

Distance: Both stand on opposing ends of the arena 

Based on Bellamy's feats in the tournament can he take down Luffy? Or does Luffy still take the V-card?



Bonus scenario: Luffy cannot use gear second


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## mr sean66 (May 15, 2013)

I think I'll still go with luffy since Bellamy doesn't have haki and physical attacks don't work on luffy


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## Rob (May 15, 2013)

Bellamy breaks his neck... 

We should wait till' we see more Bellamy though, in all honesty.


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## Extravlad (May 15, 2013)

Bellamy wins.


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## White (May 15, 2013)

*Bellamy no difficulty....*


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## zorokuma (May 15, 2013)

if bellamy has haki he beats him with ease.


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## Magician (May 15, 2013)

Post Skip Bellamy has like no feats.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 15, 2013)

Bellamy wins. Even if he does not have haki he just spring punches luffy into the water.


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## tupadre97 (May 15, 2013)

Snarl said:


> *Bellamy no difficulty....*



**


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## mr sean66 (May 15, 2013)

You guys seem to be underestimating luffy. This is the guy who broke into impel down fought many things managed to get to level 6 fought ALL the way back and even afterwards he had energy to defeat countless marines knock out a giant and take multiple hits from kizaru. He could have probably continued had ace not died.  Not to mention his bounty was over 100million more then Bellamy


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## blueframe01 (May 16, 2013)

What has post skip Bellamy done so far that makes him comparable to pre skip Luffy?  He hasn't shown speed,durability or even strength that comes close to MF Luffy.  Unless he has a decent mastery of haki (which he didn't show at all), MH Luffy beats him rather handily


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## Kings Disposition (May 16, 2013)

mr sean66 said:


> You guys seem to be underestimating luffy. This is the guy who broke into impel down fought many things managed to get to level 6 fought ALL the way back and even afterwards he had energy to defeat countless marines knock out a giant and take multiple hits from kizaru. He could have probably continued had ace not died.  Not to mention his bounty was over 100million more then Bellamy



Yes Luffy is responsible for the events at ID and even spearheaded Ace's rescue at MF, but half of those things weren't achieved just on his ability alone. He had _tons _of help and even rested/recharged a few times in that timespan as well.



blueframe01 said:


> What has post skip Bellamy done so far that makes him comparable to pre skip Luffy?  He hasn't shown speed,durability or even strength that comes close to MF Luffy.  Unless he has a decent mastery of haki (which he didn't show at all), MH Luffy beats him rather handily



Bellamy has become much more infamous post-ts and is said to have destroyed countless countries in Doflamingo's name, winning over the respect and love of Dressrosa's citizens. Not only that but Dagama perceived Bellamy as the biggest threat out of the entire B-block and felt that ganging up on him first would be the most effective winning strategy. He may only have a few feats thus far but I think it's safe to say that he's at least stronger than pre-ts Luffy considering his surrounding hype.


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## Ceasar Drake (May 16, 2013)

you guys seem to be forgetting Bellamy's paper chin. Sure, everyone got knocked out by the punch but i really dont think he has become more durable


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## Imagine (May 16, 2013)

Bellamy possibly. It doesn't help that his post feats are shit.


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## Impact (May 16, 2013)

Bellamy, despite not having any notable feats yet.


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## Rob (May 16, 2013)

I love how any current character lolLowdiffs any Pre-skip character. 

Hell, in this section post skip Chopper could probably take out Pre-Skip Akainu. 

Dow Bellamy have the speed to keep up with Luffy? 
Durability? 
Fire-Power? 



I'm not saying he'd lose to Luffy, but let's not be to quick to say that Bellamy roflshitstomps.


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## SesshomaruX2 (May 16, 2013)

Bellamy gets knocked out in one punch for a thrid time.


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## Sure (May 16, 2013)

A VA was fodderised by Bart. Bellamy wasn't. We should assume Bellamy was on VA level then. Then again Pre-TS Luffy could fight against Maynard, surely.

It's all up for debate. As of now, we don't know if it'll go either way, but it'll be close.

Thats all assuming Bellamy has CoA, otherwise Luffy stomps.


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## David (May 17, 2013)

Luffy takes this with repetitious G2 punches, assuming Bellamy can even take one without getting knocked out.

Let's not even factor in that Bellamy hasn't shown any form of Haki; shit, 2/3 of the SH's probably don't have Haki at the moment.

Meaning Bellamy can't even hurt Luffy.


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## Ryuksgelus (May 17, 2013)

mr sean66 said:


> You guys seem to be underestimating luffy. This is the guy who broke into impel down fought many things managed to get to level 6 fought ALL the way back and even afterwards he had energy to defeat countless marines knock out a giant and take multiple hits from kizaru. He could have probably continued had ace not died.  Not to mention his bounty was over 100million more then Bellamy



And Bellamy was mentioned to have destroyed multiple countries that insulted Dressarosa. Also forgetting Luffy had Iva's hormones helping him out. 

It's just assumed most note-worthy character post-skip wouldn't be raped by a single Pacifista. Believing they are that strong is easier to comprehend than he obtained a 195 million bounty and was always able to run away from Marines and stronger angry pirates for 1 to 2 years time after time. Won't assume he knows Haki yet.


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## Bonly Jr. (May 17, 2013)

What the heck? Luffy would f'ing batter the crap out of him. Luffy, while standing there, just one one-banged Bellemy. He wasn't even trying, or focusing as well. Remember, this was a *base Luffy punch.* One G2 Jet Pistol would dead him off, which is too fast for Bellemy.


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## Bansai (May 17, 2013)

Am I really the only one who thinks that it's way too soon to decide that? As of yet, Bellamy has only fought characters we don't know. We can't tell how much damage the characters he fought can take, and we neither know whether they are actually complete fodders or great combatants. I think we should wait until he fights one more time. I mean his fight against Bartolomeo can not possibly be his last one. I really can't imagine that.


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## eyeknockout (May 19, 2013)

bellamy gets one shotted by luffy again

except instead of luffy being 10% serious he'll be 30% serious in base


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## Lawliet (May 19, 2013)

Luffy beats Bellamy over and over, I'm talking about right before the timeskip Luffy. The dude who survived the War of the best.


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## Captain Altintop (Mar 13, 2014)

Bellamy take this mid-high diff.


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## Goomoonryong (Mar 13, 2014)

Bellamy probably beats Luffy.... It just sounds so wrong though.


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## Shanks (Mar 13, 2014)

Bellamy wasn't even strong enough for Dolflamingo to accept him as one of the lower executives and then later he got treat like trash by Joker by sending Derlinger to take out this piece. Pre-skip Luffy would still destory Bellemy.


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## Dunno (Mar 13, 2014)

Luffy takes it low-mid diff.


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## tanman (Mar 13, 2014)

Bellamy high diffs. I would compare his level of power with current Brooke simply because they're fighters well beneath the M3 that can keep up only in speed. 

Brooke however would mid diff because he has a varied moveset of attacks that could easily take out Luffy. If Bellmay had more feats, I would probably say he would only need mid diff as well.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 13, 2014)

If Bellamy can use CoA i can see him winning the Second Scenario.(Luffy without G2). 

Even with CoA i think he would still lose to Luffy if he can use Gears. 

Of course if Bellamy can't use CoA he loses as his main damage output is blunt force.


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## Samehadaman (Mar 13, 2014)

Bellamy's one and only feat besides getting beaten to a pulp by multiple characters: Grabbing Bart's leg.

Pre-TS Luffy's feats: Over nine thousaaaand, including one-shotting Bellamy without using the cool stuff he learned later but before the timeskip.

I'm going to go with Luffy.


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## Sayonara (Mar 13, 2014)

While its clear Bellamy has had a huge jump in power he still hasn't shown enough and I wont give him benefit of doubt on assumptions either.  I would still assume Luffy in g2 is at least as fast as Bellamy and at least as strong , but still better in both durability and endurance. Luffy also has the advantage of being rubber which will still help regardless of whether bellamy has CoA or not


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## Freechoice (Mar 14, 2014)

It would take more than one punch, but Luffy still takes it.


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## MYJC (Mar 15, 2014)

RobLucciRapes said:


> I love how any current character lolLowdiffs any Pre-skip character.
> 
> Hell, in this section post skip Chopper could probably take out Pre-Skip Akainu.
> 
> ...




Exactly, it's like people think that any preskip version of a character automatically loses to any postskip version regardless of things like logia or (lack of) feats. It's ridiculous. 


Personally, based on feats I'd still say Luffy wins. Pre-TS Luffy has a higher bounty than current Bellamy, was more infamous, and has better feats. He'll probably actually have to use G2 this time, though.


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## Coruscation (Mar 15, 2014)

If Bellamy has learned to use both CoO and CoA I'd give it to him. He made himself infamous while racking up a very respectable bounty while tearing things up in the New World for two years which sets him apart from the likes of Brownbeard who thought they were the shit there but actually got wrecked when real talent showed up. Absolutely no reason to believe Bellamy just got extremely lucky to never run into any decent NW opposition to earn that bounty and fame. Was kinda implied his physical ability could give Bartolomeo trouble when he got past the barrier. If COA powers up his attacks he doesn't really need to be physically stronger than Luffy to match him punch for punch. Obviously G3 is easily dodged so unless Bellamy runs into it that won't be a factor. Without CoO maybe G2 would ultimately overwhelm him, but then again Lucci had no CoO either and still basically won because he outlasted Luffy since G2 drains his energy quickly. Entirely possible Bellamy can simply react well enough normally too since having fought people as fast as preskip G2 in the New World isn't out of the question by any means.


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## ds800 (Mar 16, 2014)

Gin said:


> Am I really the only one who thinks that it's way too soon to decide that? As of yet, Bellamy has only fought characters we don't know. We can't tell how much damage the characters he fought can take, and we neither know whether they are actually complete fodders or great combatants. I think we should wait until he fights one more time. I mean his fight against Bartolomeo can not possibly be his last one. I really can't imagine that.



No I also agree. he hasn't shown enough feats for us to really judge how strong he is. people are assuming he'll win because he is post-timeskip. 

As for the fight. I say luffy. Bellamy hasn't shown nearly enough feats to match him. Maybe speed is debatable. But strength, fire power, endurance, he hasn't shown any of these feats to put him on pre-skip luffys level.

Bellamy took on countries that oppose dressrosa? your point? those countries haven't been proven to actually be strong ones(still impressive), and if I remember correctly, it never said he took on a huge army on the battle field head on. Its simply not enough to go off of.


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## Blanco (Mar 16, 2014)

Bellamy is country level, gg Luffy


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## Mr. Black Leg (Mar 16, 2014)

RobLucciRapes said:


> Bellamy breaks his neck...
> 
> *We should wait till' we see more Bellamy though, in all honesty*.



^ Basically the bolded .


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## Magician (Mar 16, 2014)

I could see this going to Luffy, high diff.


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## 2Broken (Mar 16, 2014)

My money is definitely on Luffy. I mean Luffy completely and utterly fodderized Bellamy; the difference in their combat ability was shown to be vast.

After that Luffy went on to have a ridiculous growth rate and in my opinion gears seals the deal in this match. Bellamy had too much catching up to do and not enough time to do it.


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## Venom (Mar 17, 2014)

I will go with Luffy high diff.
He owned Bellamy with just one regular punch during the Jaya arc.
This is now Luffy after the MF arc


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## tanman (Mar 17, 2014)

2Broken said:


> My money is definitely on Luffy. I mean Luffy completely and utterly fodderized Bellamy; the difference in their combat ability was shown to be vast.
> 
> After that Luffy went on to have a ridiculous growth rate and in my opinion gears seals the deal in this match. Bellamy had too much catching up to do and not enough time to do it.



Bellamy two and a half years.
Luffy had half a year.

That's *more* than enough time to catch up even with a lesser growth rate.

I don't understand how one can really argue for Luffy here. Bellamy's physical stats seem to clearly be above the likes of pre-skip M3 level characters when he's moving on par with current Middle Trio level characters. Even with G2, Luffy isn't touching him. The only argument for Luffy is outlasting him with blunt immunity, but it's a reach.


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## Lawliet (Mar 17, 2014)

A pre skip G3 Punch would still send post skip Bellamy flying. It's funny how people think every post skip character can just beat any pre skip character.


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## Vengeance (Mar 17, 2014)

Bellamy gets his ass kicked again.


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## Gibbs (Mar 17, 2014)

Jet Pistol ends this.


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## Ryuksgelus (Mar 17, 2014)

tanman said:


> Bellamy two and a half years.
> Luffy had half a year.
> 
> That's *more* than enough time to catch up even with a lesser growth rate.
> ...



When did he do this? He grabbed Bart likely standing still and.....nothing. 

Let's stop auto-assuming post-skip characters have better stats than pre-skip characters because no one else Bellamy has interacted with has any sort of hype comparable to SN.


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## Beast (Mar 17, 2014)

LOL, i might as well follow the crowd. No one likes Bellamy


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## B Rabbit (Mar 17, 2014)

Bellamys done nothing to show he can beat Luffy.

We don't know where those countries were located, we don't know where or how far he got into the NW. 

Until otherwise Luffy wins.


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## Slenderman (Mar 17, 2014)

mr sean66 said:


> You guys seem to be underestimating luffy. This is the guy who broke into impel down fought many things managed to get to level 6 fought ALL the way back and even afterwards he had energy to defeat countless marines knock out a giant and take multiple hits from kizaru. He could have probably continued had ace not died.  Not to mention his bounty was over 100million more then Bellamy



Still is fodder to the top tiers. Also bounty sometimes is highly inaccurate unless current Caribou is stronger than Zoro amirate? Bounty's are sometimes good but at other times not.


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## tanman (Mar 17, 2014)

Still looking for an explanation of how Luffy goes about tagging Bellamy.


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## Lawliet (Mar 17, 2014)

Why don't you start explaining how Bellamy is beating Luffy?


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## tanman (Mar 18, 2014)

Grappling. Throwing. Cutting (he carries a knife).
And he's not really getting tagged here so he has plenty of time.
Luffy on the other hand pretty much only has blunt immunity working for him.

Your turn.




Ryuksgelus said:


> When did he do this? He grabbed Bart likely standing still and.....nothing.
> 
> Let's stop auto-assuming post-skip characters have better stats than pre-skip characters because no one else Bellamy has interacted with has any sort of hype comparable to SN.



I place the big name characters participating in the Colisseum on par with the Middle Trio and Weak Trio. Considering the scale of their power and the challenge they presented to people like Cavendish and Bart, I don't see this as a unreasonable thought. Many people believe that M3 level characters can "stomp" Middle Trio level characters. If that's the case, then certainly these characters who survived for so long in the arena and are known throughout the New World can at least match the Middle Trio (who are supposedly so far beneath the M3 anyway) in whatever skill the contestants specialize in. Normally this would be an uncertain presumption to base my argument off of. But since I'm just talking about speed, Bellamy's specialty, I feel pretty comfortable.

I'm not auto-assuming anything. If this were Hajrudin, I would be singing a different tune.



And I'll reiterate that I'm not asserting that Bellamy will 100% defeat Luffy. But I'm saying that it's absolutely ludicrous to say Luffy wins as soon as he pulls out such and such move. Because Bellamy can easily dodge anything G3. And easily deflect (or dodge with difficulty) anything G2.


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## Lawliet (Mar 18, 2014)

Only immunity? One normal punch took pre skip Bellamy down, one punch.
MF Luffy would wreck the shit out of Bellamy. He fought the snake sisters, both Haki users , he fought Megallan, lost, but he did a pretty good job, Megallan would annihilate Bellamy. A G3 punch from Luffy would destroy Bellamy. G3 fucked up Lucci Who should be stronger than post Bellamy. And that G3 is much weaker than what MF Luffy can do.


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## Freechoice (Mar 18, 2014)

tanman said:


> Bellamy two and a half years.
> Luffy had half a year.
> 
> That's *more* than enough time to catch up even with a lesser growth rate.
> ...





Good lord tanman.


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## Kings Disposition (Mar 18, 2014)

oOLawlietOo said:


> Only immunity? One normal punch took pre skip Bellamy down, one punch.
> MF Luffy would wreck the shit out of Bellamy. He fought the snake sisters, both Haki users , he fought Megallan, lost, but he did a pretty good job, Megallan would annihilate Bellamy. A G3 punch from Luffy would destroy Bellamy. G3 fucked up Lucci Who should be stronger than post Bellamy. And that G3 is much weaker than what MF Luffy can do.


There's no way in hell pre-TS Luffy is landing a G3 hit on Post-TS Bellamy.


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## ds800 (Mar 18, 2014)

Kings Disposition said:


> There's no way in hell pre-TS Luffy is landing a G3 hit on Post-TS Bellamy.



I agree very much, spring boy is at least that fast.

But not fast enough or durable enough to take on G2 luffy. 

Like many others said, base luffy took down springy with a single punch, he is not surviving a jet gatlin gun...


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## Great Potato (Mar 18, 2014)

It wasn't just a casual punch that took Bellamy down. It was a full force punch from a really pissed off Luffy that Bellamy flew into after building himself up to max speed.


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## ds800 (Mar 18, 2014)

That wasn't the argument I was making, 
My point was it was still 1 single punch.
Without any special attacks, G2 attacks or anything.
Springs max speed momentum played a role, but the majority of the striking g power came from luffy(imo) 
But in G2 luffy is faster, has higher durability and strength.
No matter how much I think about it in my brain I can't see spring boy winning.
I still give it to fluffy mid-high did.


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## November (Mar 18, 2014)

Luffy destroys him


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## Sayonara (Mar 18, 2014)

Ryuksgelus said:


> Let's stop auto-assuming post-skip characters have better stats than pre-skip characters because no one else Bellamy has interacted with has any sort of hype comparable to SN.



I agree with this,


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## Sayonara (Mar 18, 2014)

Ryuksgelus said:


> Let's stop auto-assuming post-skip characters have better stats than pre-skip characters because no one else Bellamy has interacted with has any sort of hype comparable to SN.



I'll have to agree with this.

All we have to look at is Bart, a recent supernova and clearly superior to the more experienced Bellamy in hype portrayal and feats. Can argue Barts special hes got a hax DF etc, but the worse generation weren't a bunch of average pirates either. 

Bellamy was so far below Luffy at Mock Town that him becoming as strong as Luffy was pre skip can already be considered major growth on his part. Bellamy fought no one significant and we cant get proper grasp on his level but just because hes turned a new leaf and has new ambition we shouldnt automatically start assuming hes better than Luffy was. 

He could be stronger but thats really for him show, revelation that he can use haki would throw this in favour but he shouldn't get automatic benefit of doubt . I dont underestimate Bellamy at all, and his fame in NW suggests he competent fighter but I also believe MF Luffy if placed in the same situation would accomplish same or better.


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## Vengeance (Mar 18, 2014)

Everyone and their crippled dog beating Pre Ts Luffy now


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## NO (Mar 18, 2014)

Pre-skip Luffy is going to take this mid-diff.

Yeah, good for Bellamy. He went to Skypeia and took a gold pillar, got a little bit stronger and bulker, and then got embarrassed two times on Dressrosa. Pre-skip Luffy's feats is nothing short of legendary.

Bellamy went to Skypeia but he didn't have to face a menace like Enel.


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## B Rabbit (Mar 18, 2014)

tanman said:


> Still looking for an explanation of how Luffy goes about tagging Bellamy.



Burden of proof is up to you to proof Bellmy is faster than Luffy .


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## blueframe01 (Mar 18, 2014)

so despite all incredible speed feats by Pre TS Luffy he somehow needs to prove himself to be able to tag Post skip Bellamy who doesn't even have a decent feat in comparison? Just what is with the Pre Ts character underestimation?  Luffy participated in the war of legends and made a name for himself in it. What does Bellamy have again? he brought down a country? well Croc did the same in Alabasta. So did Enel. Marinford Luffy would have done the same to all island countries that he had visited previously. 

Lot of people seem to have a misunderstanding that Pre Ts Luffy wouldn't survive against NW pirates. Thats bullshit. None of the other SNs needed to hide and train to survive NW. they simply beat their way to where they are now. Luffy & co needed to train simply because they tend to attract the deadliest of foes. Bellamy would be strong enough to cause problems to Luffy but he simply doesn't have enough feats to put him above him, or any of the top SNs for that matter.


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## tanman (Mar 18, 2014)

B Rabbit said:


> Burden of proof is up to you to proof Bellmy is faster than Luffy .



I already discussed why.
And burden of proof is ambiguous here.

@Lawliet
As I said earlier, G3 isn't landing, so I don't understand why you keep bringing it up without a counterargument. Even if Bellamy for some reason couldn't move, G3 still wouldn't one shot the guy. You seem to be making the mistake of thinking that this is the same Bellamy that Luffy beat way back when. But it's been two and a half years, 140 million beli in bounty, and he's been training to be a part of the Donquixote family. He isn't loosing to Lucci. An arc villain who appeared just a single major arc after the original Bellamy was defeated.


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## Blue Cheese (Mar 18, 2014)

bellamy doesnt get facestomped but hes not gonna win.    even if hes famous and challenged countries , luffy after marineford NAME was known around whole world more infamous than bellamy and  can we really say countries bellamy beat r harder than situations luffy been thro? ID, MF?

dellinger  kickin his ass dont help either , but suppose bellamy was injured.....bellamy with springs and name bullet mayb as fast as luffy was g2 but reactions and attack speed and fighting experience and durability and endurance and willpower he loses.


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## B Rabbit (Mar 18, 2014)

If its ambiguous then it must not mean solid proof.


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## Ryuksgelus (Mar 19, 2014)

tanman said:


> I place the big name characters participating in the Colisseum on par with the Middle Trio and Weak Trio. Considering the scale of their power and the challenge they presented to people like Cavendish and Bart, I don't see this as a unreasonable thought. Many people believe that M3 level characters can "stomp" Middle Trio level characters. If that's the case, then certainly these characters who survived for so long in the arena and are known throughout the New World can at least match the Middle Trio (who are supposedly so far beneath the M3 anyway) in whatever skill the contestants specialize in. Normally this would be an uncertain presumption to base my argument off of. But since I'm just talking about speed, Bellamy's specialty, I feel pretty comfortable.



Wow! This is extremely unreasonable. You gave nothing but conjecture. I asked for a specific example of Bellamy doing what you said he can do. Like I thought you had absolutely nothing. Again who are these people who cave Bart and Cav trouble? Bellamy did nothing to Bart. 

And it's amazingly clear the M.Trio is far above the Mid Trio. Monet is above Robin and Brooke and she was intimidated by Zoro's power and easily beat Tashigi, someone closer to the Mid Trio in hype&feats so far. 

You're only argument for Bellamy comes down to a stretched out power scaling line chart :/. How the hell are you comparing Cav's opponents to Bellamy and the Mid trio. We didn't see anything of Block D. Every single named person there besides the women and guy chasing Rebecca could fodderize Bellamy and the M.Trio for all we know. They are all completely unknowns.



> I'm not auto-assuming anything. If this were Hajrudin, I would be singing a different tune.
> 
> 
> 
> And I'll reiterate that I'm not asserting that Bellamy will 100% defeat Luffy. But I'm saying that it's absolutely ludicrous to say Luffy wins as soon as he pulls out such and such move. Because Bellamy can easily dodge anything G3.* And easily deflect (or dodge with difficulty) anything G2.*



Excuse me how are you not auto-assuming anything but then proclaim this? There is absolutely no way to tell how fast Bellamy has become. While his attack power wasn't enough to take out Lepanto Tank, who is just a commander of an army of a previously pacifist country. No reason someone like that would be a monster comparable to SN and Rob Lucci even if the past 10 years he's seen more action.

This can go either way. Proclaiming Bellamy can easily evade Luffy's attacks is just as baseless as assuming Luffy blitzes or that G3 is enough to one-shot.


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