# Featherine VS Thought Robot Superman



## NINJA FREAKS (Feb 23, 2016)

Round 1:based on only feat.
Round 2:taking metafictional setting into consideration.


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## Blocky (Feb 23, 2016)

this thread sucks as usual


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## Keishin (Feb 23, 2016)

Thought Robot Superman with right index little foot finger

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Solar (Feb 23, 2016)

search function doesn't suck that bad:  (Oct. 2015)



> right index little foot finger



A stroke in the middle of your sentence.


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## NINJA FREAKS (Feb 23, 2016)

Keishin said:


> Thought Robot Superman with right index little foot finger


Really?
I heard Featherine is multi-megaversal.


Frederica Bernkastel said:


> search function doesn't suck that bad:  (Oct. 2015)
> 
> 
> 
> A stroke in the middle of your sentence.


Isn't it before umineko witches being megaversal accepted?


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## Tonathan100 (Feb 23, 2016)

Cosmic Armor Superman is Omniverse Level, as he is more powerful than the Omniverse Level Source and the Pre-Retcon Amalgam Brother Yin.





> Tier 0: Omniverse Level+
> 
> Tier 1 High: Omniverse Level
> 
> ...


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## Solar (Feb 23, 2016)

Why is Tonathan green? It's not like he's sealed. 



NINJA FREAKS said:


> Isn't it before umineko witches being megaversal accepted?



I think most were taking that into account.

Which reminds me that I should update wins and losses on pages now. No one really does that anymore.


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## Tonathan100 (Feb 23, 2016)

Frederica Bernkastel said:


> Why is Tonathan green? It's not like he's sealed.



Because I, get this, *actively try to be* a _constructive poster_.


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## Solar (Feb 23, 2016)

Poor use of bold lettering. It's like a comic book.

Also: liar.


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## Tonathan100 (Feb 23, 2016)

Frederica Bernkastel said:


> Poor use of bold lettering. It's like a comic book.
> 
> *Also: liar.*



It was to put emphasis on what I was saying. The concept of  "emphasis" is apparently something you don't understand.

I won't even justify the bolded with a response.


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## Solar (Feb 23, 2016)

_I'm_ an *English* _major_, so *my understanding of bold and italic lettering for emphasis* >>_ yours_.


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## Tonathan100 (Feb 23, 2016)

Frederica Bernkastel said:


> _I'm_ an *English* _major_, so *my understanding of bold and italic lettering for emphasis* >>_ yours_.



Appeals to your own authority mean jackshit in a debate.

Although your attempt to inflate your e-peen is fucking hilarious.


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## Solar (Feb 23, 2016)

So explain how emphasizing half your sentence in two different styles is a good use of bold and italics.


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## Tonathan100 (Feb 23, 2016)

Frederica Bernkastel said:


> So explain how emphasizing half your sentence in two different styles is a good use of bold and italics.



Bolding "actively try to be" puts emphasis on the phrase "actively try to be".

Italicizing "constructive poster" puts emphasis on the fact that I am, for the most part, a constructive poster.


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## Solar (Feb 23, 2016)

I see you didn't answer my question. My e-peen has chubbed up a bit more now.


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## Tonathan100 (Feb 23, 2016)

> I see you didn't answer my question. My e-peen has chubbed up a bit more now.



Bold and italics are used for emphasis.

I used bold and italics to emphasize certain words and phrases.

How is that not an answer to your question?


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## Solar (Feb 23, 2016)

Frederica Bernkastel said:


> So explain how emphasizing half your sentence in two different styles is a good use of bold and italics.



I underlined it for you.


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## Tonathan100 (Feb 23, 2016)

Frederica Bernkastel said:


> I underlined it for you.



Are we seriously having an argument on how to use bolding and italics correctly? 

In any case, I emphasized what I needed to emphasis, so it *is* a good use.


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## Solar (Feb 23, 2016)

Tonathan100 said:


> Are we seriously having an argument on how to use bolding and italics correctly?



We could've ended it with my authority, but you refused. 

You should be happy. You get to learn Physics, Math, and English on here. Go to Nevermind for History and Rob for Spanish, and we'll be your OBD cram school.



> In any case, I emphasized what I needed to emphasis, so it *is* a good use.



It's this type of thought that has people thinking they get away with bold on entire sentences.


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## Iwandesu (Feb 23, 2016)

tohnathan likes to pretend experience means nothing doesnt he ? 
but hey that's normal for a teenager i guess


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## Monna (Feb 23, 2016)

Featherine wins with zero effort.


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## NINJA FREAKS (Feb 23, 2016)

Jane said:


> Featherine wins with zero effort.


Reason?
Thought Robot is multi-megaversal too.

As for Round 2, i only want to see the battle between "I am writer, so i win because i am writer, i can alter everything inside story" VS "I am the hero. even writer can't alter my story because i am beyond only fictional and powerd by countless fan around the world. so i win"


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## Iwandesu (Feb 23, 2016)

thought robot most likely wins tbh 
if he has resistance to featherine conceptual shit and all
where multi megaversal comes for him ?


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## Tonathan100 (Feb 23, 2016)

iwandesu said:


> thought robot most likely wins tbh
> if he has resistance to featherine conceptual shit and all
> where multi megaversal comes for him ?



Mandrakk the Dark Monitor was, more or less, an immediate threat to all of Creation. Cosmic Armor Superman could combat Mandrakk the Dark Monitor.

Not to mention that Cosmic Armor Superman and Mandrakk are at least as strong as the Source, solidly putting them at Omniverse Level, as the Source is Omniverse Level.


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## Iwandesu (Feb 23, 2016)

there is no such a thing is omniverse level 
unless you can literrally one shot all of the fiction at the same time
and scan for this "immediate threat" pls


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## Tonathan100 (Feb 23, 2016)

Omniverse Level is a thing, if you define it as destroying everything within a fictional setting 
that contains more than one megaverse.



Omniverse Level - (?) The power to destroy all dimensions, universes, multiverses, megaverses, and etcetera within a fictional setting. Surely only an omnipotent can do this.


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## Solar (Feb 23, 2016)

I suppose I should actually take a crack at this since this is the third Umineko vs Cosmic Armor/Mandrakk thread in a short order of time (especially for multiversal threads, which are so disliked). Let's avoid this match from now on.

Featherine currently gets scaled from Bernkastel and Lambdadelta, whom are megaversal. If we were to look at it in terms that we use for multiversals, they would low multiversal (in this case low megaversal to the order of a few to several dozen when Lambda was just playing around). Obviously we can't boost Featherine to multi-megaversal or whatever just because she stomped Lambdadelta (we can't even bring Lamda any higher even if her feat was completed as she was playing around), so she's stuck down there along with the other two.

Cosmic Armor Superman and Mandrakk have been shaky this last year. They were commonly regarded as Multiversal+ from what I noticed in the years beforehand, and they would lose this match if they remained that way. But it seems that they're being seen differently now. 

According to moebringer in the last thread:



> Limbo is the DC megaverse, it's everything ever published by DC, pre-crisis, post crisis, nu52 (well, probably, its hard to say since that would be a bit retroactive), vertigo, etc.



Last I checked, Post-Crisis DC was the second strongest (read: second largest) verse after Marvel. If the Though Robot could balance this on the tip of its finger then this is no contest. Whether you think it's larger than Marvel or not is irrelevant for the purposes of this thread and post. 

So to answer the previous threads and this one:

Cosmic Armor Superman > Featherine

Cosmic Armor Superman & Mandrakk > Bernkastel & Lambdadelta (not a surprise since in the first thread people were debating whether the Thought Robot would win or tie with Featherine, which is all that needed to be said about this match)


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## BreakFlame (Feb 23, 2016)

Frederica Bernkastel said:


> I suppose I should actually take a crack at this since this is the third Umineko vs Cosmic Armor/Mandrakk thread in a short order of time (especially for multiversal threads, which are so disliked). Let's avoid this match from now on.
> 
> Featherine currently gets scaled from Bernkastel and Lambdadelta, whom are megaversal. If we were to look at it in terms that we use for multiversals, they would low multiversal (in this case low megaversal to the order of a few to several dozen when Lambda was just playing around). Obviously we can't boost Featherine to multi-megaversal or whatever just because she stomped Lambdadelta (we can't even bring Lamda any higher even if her feat was completed as she was playing around), so she's stuck down there along with the other two.
> 
> ...



This seems pretty sound from what I recall.

The story Thought Robot appeared in was basically DC throwing in all their chips in terms of scale. They went straight for the "Everything is a story and this guy can smash/kill/erase it" and then made Superman be stronger than that.

Until something comes along to top that, CA Supes is basically the DC top dog, so anyone who can't topple DC itself loses to him.


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## Shunssj (Feb 23, 2016)

BreakFlame said:


> This seems pretty sound from what I recall.
> 
> The story Thought Robot appeared in was basically DC throwing in all their chips in terms of scale. They went straight for the "Everything is a story and this guy can smash/kill/erase it" and then made Superman be stronger than that.
> 
> Until something comes along to top that, CA Supes is basically the DC top dog, so anyone who can't topple DC itself loses to him.



shouldn't the 3 archangels and The Presence (obviously) still be stronger than Ca Supes


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## BreakFlame (Feb 23, 2016)

Shunssj said:


> shouldn't the 3 archangels and The Presence (obviously) still be stronger than Ca Supes



Not unless they're superior to the Overmonitor, which is the canvas on which the DC mythos is written.


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## Shunssj (Feb 23, 2016)

BreakFlame said:


> Not unless they're superior to the Overmonitor, which is the canvas on which the DC mythos is written.



The Presence held all of creation in it's hand


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 24, 2016)

Id oneshots all these multiversal fuckwads


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## Solar (Feb 24, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Id oneshots all these multiversal fuckwads



This type of post only works when the "quality" character can actually win.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 24, 2016)

>Id
>Not quality


Hes megaversal as full contact and insanely casually multiversal with an assload of hax and probability manipulation


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## Solar (Feb 24, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Hes megaversal as full contact



In OneSimpleBD, perhaps.


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## Bernkastel (Feb 24, 2016)

Is the thought robot same as CA Superman..? 

i mean did Superman get a cosmic armor and put it on or the though robot is a separate entity from Superman?


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## NINJA FREAKS (Feb 24, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Id oneshots all these multiversal fuckwads


Thought Robot and Featherine are multi-megaversal.
They are far above multiversal.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 24, 2016)

Bernkastel said:


> Is the thought robot same as CA Superman..?
> 
> i mean did Superman get a cosmic armor and put it on or the though robot is a separate entity from Superman?



The Thought Robot is the same as the Cosmic Armour.

The Thought Robot is the more technically correct (and aesthetically pleasing ) name, the Cosmic Armour is what Superman himself off handedly thinks of it as when he takes his first steps in it.

Essentially the thought robot is a machine that exists on a higher plane of existence, Captain Atom (A Superman Analogue), by fusing Superman with Ultraman (the anti-matter Superman) can send Superman's essence upwards to the giant cosmic receiver that is the Thought Robot.



Think of it as a mech that Superman pilots with his soul, it's his version of TTGL.


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## XImpossibruX (Feb 24, 2016)

Superman + Ultraman + The Monitors creation. 

Why it's called CA Superman when the Monitors did most off the work and he's contributing only the some of the essence is beyond me


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## Solar (Feb 24, 2016)

XImpossibruX said:


> Superman + Ultraman + The Monitors creation.
> 
> Why it's called CA Superman when the Monitors did most off the work and he's contributing only the some of the essence is beyond me



Americans must always take the credit for saving the world.


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## trexalfa (Feb 24, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> >Id
> >Not quality
> 
> 
> Hes megaversal as full contact and insanely casually multiversal with an assload of hax and probability manipulation





If you are talking about Xenogears Id, then... Shit no, lol. Megaversal my ass. Look, Xenogears is my favourite game and all, but it's not a stronger verse than the When They Cry series. For one, we've never seen Id himself awakening as the Contact, that honor belonged to Fei alone. Second, the Wave Existence sure is multiversal v?a inference , but there's no megaverse in Xenogears, nor feats to put the Wave Existence above multiversal. 

On topic, Featherine should win in round 2, since author>>Plot Device. Round one is tricky.


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## BreakFlame (Feb 24, 2016)

Shunssj said:


> The Presence held all of creation in it's hand



Limbo, the void in which all of DC is contained, was smaller than the Thought Robots finger.


And round 2 should still go to Superman since he's an untouchable story. He is stronger than the one threatening the combined efforts of every DC author ever.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 24, 2016)

trexalfa said:


> If you are talking about Xenogears Id, then... Shit no, lol. Megaversal my ass. Look, Xenogears is my favourite game and all, but it's not a stronger verse than the When They Cry series. For one, we've never seen Id himself awakening as the Contact, that honor belonged to Fei alone. Second, the Wave Existence sure is multiversal v?a inference , but there's no megaverse in Xenogears, nor feats to put the Wave Existence above multiversal.
> 
> On topic, Featherine should win in round 2, since author>>Plot Device. Round one is tricky.



I was joking anyway. Umineko has its crazy ass megaversal shit and theres too many for Fei to beat. Plus multiversal threads are dumb.

We use Id instead of Fei mostly because he's always bloodlusted and treat Id as the full contact.  WE is megaversal with the addition of Perfect Works knowledge, plus feats like a damn drop of his power made Fei's entire universe by accident and full contact Fei destroyed a dimensional pathway made out of WE energy by accident when fighting Uroboros, which is an easily Multiversal feat. Plus shit like the Zohar casually making tons of universes and shifting them around for Fei and WE is stronger than the Zohar. Fei was label as possible megaversal on the old wiki too, if his page isnt already up on the new wiki

On topic: the Thought Robot takes this most likely


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## trexalfa (Feb 24, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> I was joking anyway. Umineko has its crazy ass megaversal shit and theres too many for Fei to beat. Plus multiversal threads are dumb.
> 
> We use Id instead of Fei mostly because he's always bloodlusted and treat Id as the full contact.  WE is megaversal with the addition of Perfect Works knowledge, plus feats like a damn drop of his power made Fei's entire universe by accident and full contact Fei destroyed a dimensional pathway made out of WE energy by accident when fighting Uroboros, which is an easily Multiversal feat. Plus shit like the Zohar casually making tons of universes and shifting them around for Fei and WE is stronger than the Zohar. Fei was label as possible megaversal on the old wiki too, if his page isnt already up on the new wiki
> 
> On topic: the Thought Robot takes this most likely



I seriously don't know where you are getting all of this from. I've done numerous re reads of said page of Perfect Works, I'm not seeing any multiversal stuff. The Zohar just shifts probability TTGL style. Nothing about universes there. I need to rewatch the Path of Sefirot's scenes, but I don't recall any multiversal stuff. How does "creating a universe with leftover waves " translate to "megaversal"? We don't know ick about Xenogears' cosmology since we didn't get more games. It could be similar to Xenosaga's for all we know, which isn't a megaverse.

Definately powerful. Multiversal, but megaversal is way too much. Fuck, me arguing against Xenogears? Pft, the shit I do this days...


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 24, 2016)

The perfect works says that the Zohar makes universes and alters them to the point where the result that Fei wants, happens, then it shifts the new universe with the one Fei is currently in. Tada, probability is altered on a massive scale.

The path of Sefirot was said to be made of WE energy and Fei destroyed it as a side effect of his fight with Uroboros. An entire pathway that was apparently huge has waaaay more energy than a fucking drop that accidentally made an entire universe. Plus I think Uroboros was also made of WE energy and Fei murdered it casually.

Edit: 


some old respect threads on it


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## trexalfa (Feb 24, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> The perfect works says that the Zohar makes universes and alters them to the point where the result that Fei wants, happens, then it shifts the new universe with the one Fei is currently in. Tada, probability is altered on a massive scale.
> 
> The path of Sefirot was said to be made of WE energy and Fei destroyed it as a side effect of his fight with Uroboros. An entire pathway that was apparently huge has waaaay more energy than a fucking drop that accidentally made an entire universe. Plus I think Uroboros was also made of WE energy and Fei murdered it casually.




I'll give it another read. Case in point, I don't remember anything like that. 

We don't get numbers nor descriptions on how big the Path is. So I wouldn't extrapolate. Besides, since we get to see their souls, I doubt it was made of waves at all. But I'll check it.

Uroboros was Deus' consciousness, aka Myyah after fusing with the souls of humans as parts. No waves there.


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## Solar (Feb 24, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> We use Id instead of Fei mostly because he's always bloodlusted and treat Id as the full contact.  WE is megaversal with the addition of Perfect Works knowledge, plus feats like a damn drop of his power made Fei's entire universe by accident and full contact Fei destroyed a dimensional pathway made out of WE energy by accident when fighting Uroboros, which is an easily Multiversal feat. Plus shit like the Zohar casually making tons of universes and shifting them around for Fei and WE is stronger than the Zohar. Fei was label as possible megaversal on the old wiki too, if his page isnt already up on the new wiki



It was listed as "possibly" because none of the stuff you listed, though we can probably surmise that is it megaversal, won't (didn't) meet the criteria, which is ultra strict. ;-;

Same reason why super casual universe busters who're way, way above other super casual universe busters are just Universal+


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 24, 2016)

Uroboros was fused with Wave Energy. It was a wave being. The path itself was a pathway from the 3rd dimension all the way to the 4th dimension, and only Fei and Wave beings could exist in it without being destroyed. I feel like we had a visual of it somewhere but i cant remember

@ Bern: The perfect works really helped increase Xenogears standing but yea sadly we dont have Fei classified as full Megaversal even though he should be for being =to the WE, but its whatever. Fuck Square cutting funding for Xenogears


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## trexalfa (Feb 24, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Uroboros was fused with Wave Energy. It was a wave being. The path itself was a pathway from the 3rd dimension all the way to the 4th dimension, and only Fei and Wave beings could exist in it without being destroyed. I feel like we had a visual of it somewhere but i cant remember




It was a spiritual pathway. We were seeing Fei and Elly's souls, along with Karellen's.

Now that's just making shit up. Uroboros doesn't get info anywhere. Nor in the game, nor in Perfect Works. How can you say it's a wave being? Because everything indicates the opposite.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 24, 2016)

If it was spiritual then why did Fei have Xenogears? it doesnt have a spirit. Plus the pathway was still stated to be made out of Wave Energy and Fei busted the shit out of it and tanked the explosion in Xenogears.

I'd tell you to ask someone more knowledgeable but Keollyn is the only one left who really knows a lot about Xenogears since they helped make all the respect threads. I dont think Id posts anymore.


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## trexalfa (Feb 24, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> If it was spiritual then why did Fei have Xenogears? it doesnt have a spirit. Plus the pathway was still stated to be made out of Wave Energy and Fei busted the shit out of it and tanked the explosion in Xenogears.
> 
> I'd tell you to ask someone more knowledgeable but Keollyn is the only one left who really knows a lot about Xenogears since they helped make all the respect threads. I dont think Id posts anymore.



Because Karellen clearly states they are souls IIRC (I'll also check). Plus, Xenogears being there was Fei's brand of bullshit, he is the Contact after all.

I'm knowledgeable enough about my favourite game, thank you. We don't get explicit info about Uroboros anywhere.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 24, 2016)

Again im not a huge expert on it or anything. Talk with someone who knows more. At the very least Fei is multiversal from direct feats.


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## Byrd (Feb 24, 2016)

Multiversal debates.... causes for megaversal hate


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## TobiSan (Feb 24, 2016)

BreakFlame said:


> Limbo, the void in which all of DC is contained, was smaller than the Thought Robots finger.
> 
> 
> And round 2 should still go to Superman since he's an untouchable story. He is stronger than the one threatening the combined efforts of every DC author ever.



What comic book did you read?

Thought Robot existed in the Monitor Sphere which is the last place in DC Creation before Source Wall. Limbo exists in Monitor Sphere. Void contains everything in DC Creation including Monitor Sphere.

This is Void around DC.


This is Monitor Sphere.


Untouchable story is No Limit Fallacy, Thought Robot is still nothing compared to DC and Vertigo cosmic characters.


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## NINJA FREAKS (Feb 25, 2016)

TobiSan said:


> Untouchable story is No Limit Fallacy, Thought Robot is still nothing compared to DC and Vertigo cosmic characters.


It is not No Limit Fallacy because it is supported by Morrison's. statement in his interview, isn't it?
And, TR Superman has better feat than Lucifer and Michael.


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## Bad Wolf (Feb 28, 2016)

Tonathan100 said:


> Cosmic Armor Superman is Omniverse Level, as he is more powerful than the Omniverse Level Source and the Pre-Retcon Amalgam Brother Yin.



I always wondered how
Peak Elaine Belloc
Michael Demiurgos/Kali = Full Godwave
Lucifer Morningstar
Are in the tier 1 who's tier above the multiverse level. I read those comics and all the story was about 3 universe for all the chapters.
For the match I have to say that I haven't see/read all the umineko story but I watched Featherine's battle and read the comics of that superman. It wasn't that strong as people are saying and won only pushing mandrake in the void of where they were...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Imperator100 (Feb 28, 2016)

Bad Wolf said:


> I always wondered how
> Peak Elaine Belloc
> Michael Demiurgos/Kali = Full Godwave
> Lucifer Morningstar
> ...




Michael was said to be the strongest being in creation and renewed every atom of creation each moment, keeping the whole things moving. Creation refers to that which was created by the Presence, the infinitesimal asymmetry Overmonitor noticed within itself.


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## Bad Wolf (Feb 28, 2016)

> Michael was said to be the strongest being in creation and renewed every atom of creation each moment, keeping the whole things moving. Creation refers to that which was created by the Presence, the infinitesimal asymmetry Overmonitor noticed within itself.


And how he ended up in chains? Or dead. And in the comics creation was synonymous of a single universe, and in the end it was god that keeps the creation "alive" but for doing it properly it would lose all his consciousness as show by elaine belloc


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## Imperator100 (Feb 28, 2016)

Bad Wolf said:


> And how he ended up in chains? Or dead. And in the comics creation was synonymous of a single universe, and in the end it was god that keeps the creation "alive" but for doing it properly it would lose all his consciousness as show by elaine belloc



For alot of reasons really.....also no creation doesn't refer to just a universe. If you want to claim that you need evidence.


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## Bad Wolf (Feb 28, 2016)

Imperator100 said:


> For alot of reasons really.....also no creation doesn't refer to just a universe. If you want to claim that you need evidence.



Like:
  god and lucifer created A universe.
Death confirm it 
Then it is confirmed that there with elaine's there are 3 creation (the creation/universe of god, lucifer and elaine)  and the big boss confirm that 
In the end they merge the 3 creation into one, but that's a bit different from a multiverse for various reason explained in the story 
All the story was about the 2 (then 3) universe and their problem, how does someone get the idea that they were multiverse or much more?


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## Imperator100 (Feb 28, 2016)

Bad Wolf said:


> Like:
> god and lucifer created A universe.
> Death confirm it
> Then it is confirmed that there with elaine's there are 3 creation (the creation/universe of god, lucifer and elaine)  and the big boss confirm that
> ...



Again, that isn't really evidence.Nothing there says it was just one universe each. Creation refers to that which is created, and because the Presence controls everything and created everything in DC that refers to everything.

The energy released at Michael's Death was going to destroy everything that existed:
?There is a power within me. The Dunamis Demuirgos. God?s power. When I die it will pour out of me and overwhelm everything that exists.?

"God's Power" is the Godwave which created everything in the first place. When Cronos, stronger then the Hindu Gods some of whom are threats to all of creation themselves, tried to take that power for himself it destroyed him because he couldn't handle the power.


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## Bad Wolf (Feb 28, 2016)

Imperator100 said:


> Again, that isn't really evidence.Nothing there says it was just one universe each. Creation refers to that which is created, and because the Presence controls everything and created everything in DC that refers to everything.
> 
> The energy released at Michael's Death was going to destroy everything that existed:
> ?There is a power within me. The Dunamis Demuirgos. God?s power. When I die it will pour out of me and overwhelm everything that exists.?
> ...



It's not like that, I posted the evidence of universe/creation, they always speaks about 3 universe and all the story is about that. You need more than evidence to say that they were multiverse considering that they say all the times "universe".
And the series "lucifer" is a bit separated from the usual DC continuity, the only elements from other stories as far I remember is only the character of "death" and the connection with Sandamn


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## Imperator100 (Feb 28, 2016)

Bad Wolf said:


> It's not like that, I posted the evidence of universe/creation, they always speaks about 3 universe and all the story is about that.


No they don't. Using the word "universe" is not the same as only meaning universe all the time. Creation is clearly the creation of the Presence and obviously the Presence has far more then a single universe that he has created.





> You need more than evidence to say that they were multiverse considering that they say all the times "universe".


Saying the word universe alone is not evidence. Also I did give you evidence. Michael's Death was going to release so much energy it would overwhelm everything that existed.




> And the series "lucifer" is a bit separated from the usual DC continuity, the only elements from other stories as far I remember is only the character of "death" and the connection with Sandamn


It's canon. End of story. Evidence from other DC Material is perfectly justified.


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## Bad Wolf (Feb 28, 2016)

> No they don't. Using the word "universe" is not the same as only meaning universe all the time. Creation is clearly the creation of the Presence and obviously the Presence has far more then a single universe that he has created.
> Saying the word universe alone is not evidence. Also I did give you evidence. Michael's Death was going to release so much energy it would overwhelm everything that existed.


It's a universe when they say that lucifer saw the creation of a single universe and a single big bang, and we just see him creating one single universe and then everyone says that  they are just like these 3, you say that there are more universes created? You need proof, I poster solid scan that confirm single universe, 3 universes in total in the series "lucifer". And that claim of michael's death is like that only because when it was claimed there was only god's universe LOL


> It's canon. End of story. Evidence from other DC Material is perfectly justified.


Lol, have your read the comics or are you just saying this from what have you read from someone else? Because what are you saying have a sparkle of reason only considering other DC stories and not this one.


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## Imperator100 (Feb 28, 2016)

Bad Wolf said:


> It's a universe when they say that lucifer saw the creation of a single universe


No we didn't. Lucifer was said to create a universe, but was given no limit. We do not see him create a singular universe.



> and a single big bang,


So? According to DC Metaverse everything, including a Big Bang, spawn infinite realities.



> and we just see him creating one single universe


We don't.



> and then everyone says that  they are just like these 3, you say that there are more universes created?


3 Creations. But God's Creation was literally what God Created....you know what that is? ALL OF DC. In case you didn't notice God=Presence, and the Presence is the one who created everything in DC.



> You need proof, I poster solid scan that confirm single universe,


No you didn't. You gave a few scans that had the word universe in them and then claimed that Creation was somehow limited to that singular universe and that nothing else had been created despite the fact that the DC Metaverse means that literally every single event spawns infinite new realities.



> 3 universes in total in the series "lucifer".






> And that claim of michael's death is like that only because when it was claimed there was only god's universe LOL


WTH, how on Earth did you come to that conclusion? Everything that exists, does not just mean a single universe, especially in DC when literally every event spawns infinite new realities.




> Lol, have your read the comics or are you just saying this from what have you read from someone else? Because what are you saying have a sparkle of reason only considering other DC stories and not this one.


Do you read DC outside of these works? Tell me, are you actually claiming the Sandman is not canon and if so what are you basing that on.


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## cingetorix (Feb 28, 2016)

Featherine from what I know

Reactions: Like 1


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## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 28, 2016)

Bad Wolf said:


> I always wondered how
> Peak Elaine Belloc
> Michael Demiurgos/Kali = Full Godwave
> Lucifer Morningstar
> ...



No it wasn't, Lucifer explicitly creates a multiverse to rival his fathers creation.

"Creation" in biblical/vertigo DC refers to everything created by capital g God, aka the Presence.

I seriously doubt you're qualified to make a judgement on what was going on in Final Crisis tbh, you just seem to lack any kind of contextual understanding of the story.


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## Beatrice The Endless Witch (Feb 29, 2016)

I could go into a really long post about this, but all in all Umineko characters should not be used in battles, for starters, their full potential is never really known, their battles of about wit and definition, not making huge mushroom clouds, secondly the entire thing is up to interpretation, everything can be true or false, how powerful a character is, who they are, what they can do and can't do is how you intemperate it as the reader, there is no solid answer. Even Featherine limits her own power greatly, there is never really a concrete answer for anything in the series and getting deep into their capabilities or levels of influence is fruitless, it's a catbox, the entire series.

Now it's not stated by Ryukishi directly but I assume voyager witches aren't bound to the Higu/umineko verse. Example of this is Dlanor and the rest of Eiserne Jungfrau claim that they're enforcing the will of their god (that being classical detective fiction, the Knox's Decalogue and the Van Dine commandments). Besides this Beatrice herself reference Authors like Agatha Christie in one of the tea parties, as well as in reference to the meta refers of the land of the golden witch, which was suppose to be an Agatha Christie style murder mystery, if you're not familiar, the Golden Land was a set of hypothetical arcs which was replaced with banquet of the golden witch, where Battler was a potential killer, this was reused as an idea for Bernkastel's Purple truth game. What I'm getting at here is, that Creator=/= mean the series author like in most creators' being the author's self insert, on in the obvious more case in umineko, Erika to Bern. So I see voyagers more or less being outside the story itself. This is evident when you consider Umineko isn't Reason vs Magic, rather it's Mystery vs Fantasy and 

As for The argument of level of universes being created, you have to understand atlest in my interpretations, these universe or multiverse created by someone like lucifer would by simple in the confines of that story/multiverse. When Bern or Lambda creates a universe/Fragment It's literally a new story, this is even more evident with the new 7th Expansion VN, When the Fireflies Burn, And the new book The first and the last Gift, which 


Another version of what I'm talking about is The Kyrie going crazy from the truth hypothesis. You Can see this being reenacted in the meta world in the Bern vs Lambda fight. Bern's goal is to uncover the truth, even if it leaves some of the pieces in the game to go completely batshit insane. While Lambda want's to cover the truth, why the fucking Week end at Bernies/Kinzo bit. Later in the Fight Lambda creates and destroys an entire universe in her big crunch attack. This can be seen as the bomb going off. Lambda created Yasutrice and ended Yasutrice's timeline, she created an entire universe, and destroyed it, without the outside world knowing. I hardly see this match fair to be honest because the very nature of the witches aren't well people in the traditional sense they're more like living ideas. Kinda why I don't get why people make it sound like Lambda and Bern can't be as strong as Featherine if they wanted, it's because they may lose their will, it's if they are too powerful hey get bored, that's death to them. I could go on longer but I don't wanna put more of you to sleep, I just think Umineko is one of those series that don't really belong in vs setting like this. This is not to say they are unbeatable or I don't like seeing them, it's just, the way the series is kinda goes against how they are used here, they are limited a lot. But that's just me, carry on ol' chaps.

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## Bad Wolf (Feb 29, 2016)

Imperator100 you just didn't have read the comics, right? You're just saying "no you don't" when I post the scan but you aren't posting proof, the only scan it's the same I can find in every respect thread on the net but... Well, yeah, multiverse with 2 universes is still a multiverse



> No we didn't. Lucifer was said to create a universe, but was given no limit. We do not see him create a singular universe.


Yes we see it, we see all the creation process (but only if you read the comics you can know that) and in no way we see more than one universe



> 3 Creations. But God's Creation was literally what God Created....you know what that is? ALL OF DC. In case you didn't notice God=Presence, and the Presence is the one who created everything in DC.


You are talking about all the DC but in that comics they don't speak of that. In fact they always claim about 3 single universe, it can be contradictory but that was the story, if there were a multiverse that would be very different



> No you didn't. You gave a few scans that had the word universe in them and then claimed that Creation was somehow limited to that singular universe and that nothing else had been created despite the fact that the DC Metaverse means that literally every single event spawns infinite new realities.


And that was more than you did to claim that there is a multiverse. You can speak as you want but you aren't supporting anything, you have just only your words.



> Do you read DC outside of these works? Tell me, are you actually claiming the Sandman is not canon and if so what are you basing that on.


What I'm claiming is that people are pushing up characters of  a story as much as they want just for the contradiction that there is always in the comics. Now you may say that lucifer can destroy universes with a blink of the eye or he's near omnipotent when in the story it wasn't anywehere near that level, he can even lose his powers in many ways, be controlled, be almost killed, seriously injured... 



> No it wasn't, Lucifer explicitly creates a multiverse to rival his fathers creation.
> 
> "Creation" in biblical/vertigo DC refers to everything created by capital g God, aka the Presence.


If we want to speak clearly there's something above the presence. So even him isn't the true big boss. And that may be true in others comics but in this one, in lucifer, it wasn't.



> I seriously doubt you're qualified to make a judgement on what was going on in Final Crisis tbh, you just seem to lack any kind of contextual understanding of the story.


Yes, I surely lack all the background stories under the final crisis but at least I read that and even all the lucifer series, all I see is a bunch of people claiming stuff that they read from other people


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## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 29, 2016)

I've read pretty much everything I post about 



> If we want to speak clearly there's something above the presence. So even him isn't the true big boss. And that may be true in others comics but in this one, in lucifer, it wasn't.



non-sequiter and also literally a false statement, so

no?


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## Bad Wolf (Feb 29, 2016)

> non-sequiter and also literally a false statement, so
> 
> no?


Ok. There's no scan which says that Lucifer created a multiverse but there are many that says that he created a single universe (already posted). Terms/words may have a meaning in some comics and other meaning in others, in the lucifer comics it's a world for a single universe.

For the later sentence, the only thing that's false is your sentence not supported by scans... There's an example, but there're more  
If you have something that explain everything it's ok to me but for what I've read things are like this, what they say in other comics it's the usual """consistency""" of comics


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Feb 29, 2016)

None of this has anything to do with the Thought Robot so back on topic.


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## Bad Wolf (Feb 29, 2016)

Yeah. For me I put my money on the witch, her power is more... "absolute". She can kill a character just with only the narration of the story she writes. If she tries to do something like she did with lambda I don't see how can superman react to that, he can't even regenerate/return back to life...

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## Solar (Feb 29, 2016)

Beatrice The Endless Witch said:


> I could go into a really long post about this, but all in all Umineko characters should not be used in battles, for starters, their full potential is never really known, their battles of about wit and definition, not making huge mushroom clouds, secondly the entire thing is up to interpretation, everything can be true or false, how powerful a character is, who they are etc etc



But there are feats. "Featherine" and "Bernkastel" and "ANGE" have feats. Just like Neo in the matrix has feats. Or, really, like any fictional character has feats.


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## Finalbeta (Feb 29, 2016)

Thought Robot wins


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## Byrd (Feb 29, 2016)

> I could go into a really long post about this, but all in all Umineko characters should not be used in battles, for starters, their full potential is never really known, their battles of about wit and definition, not making huge mushroom clouds, secondly the entire thing is up to interpretation, everything can be true or false, how powerful a character is, who they are, what they can do and can't do is how you intemperate it as the reader, there is no solid answer. Even Featherine limits her own power greatly, there is never really a concrete answer for anything in the series and getting deep into their capabilities or levels of influence is fruitless, it's a catbox, the entire series.



We have wayyyy more than enough feats... evidence to allow them into the battledome... thats not the problem

The problem is that almost everyone in the series in absurdly strong


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## Beatrice The Endless Witch (Feb 29, 2016)

Byrd said:


> We have wayyyy more than enough feats... evidence to allow them into the battledome... thats not the problem
> 
> The problem is that almost everyone in the series in absurdly strong





Frederica Bernkastel said:


> But there are feats. "Featherine" and "Bernkastel" and "ANGE" have feats. Just like Neo in the matrix has feats. Or, really, like any fictional character has feats.



That's not what I'm saying though, I know they have feats, I'm just saying the entire series including feats is subjective since it is based on interpretation, even looking at Virgillia vs Beatrice. I mean Beatrice summons Greek weapons like the Aegis and Virgillia summons Norse weapons in their famous fight.. But  they're metaphors otherwise they're would be a ton of gods, which makes the idea of multiple creators to be equally valid. this is why meta characters shouldn't even be used, they're literally met to be different interpretations he VN is done that way on purpose. They're metaphorical beings. They could be the highest peak of the Angels? and Demons? powers and aren?t religious figures in their respective worlds, but merely an ideal to strive towards and to gain metaphorical power from. But that's all up to the reader, nevermind the fact that other gods exist since Dlanor serves a god, and Featherine is a creator but also limits herself along with Bernkastela and Lambda. So we never know how powerful they can be, it's literally endless but they don't want to lose their sense of self and die from boredom. But yeah I get the small feats shown can be used, Hell even Ange is a creator, but people put her below Featherine for some reason.

I'm not saying not to use these characters or people who make these battles are stupid. I'm just saying that we are using heavily restricted versions of the characters and literally every feat can be interpenetrated to mean something else be it a much bigger or smaller feat that what was originally thought and that's the point, I accept apposing perspectives,  that's the point of the series and I don't like it being dogmatic.

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## Solar (Feb 29, 2016)

That's interesting, but that's something already considered (I've actually gone out of the way to downgrade a lot of the verse for this). It's not as hard as you're making it out to be, which is why battle boards here and in Japan have no difficulty using Umineko.


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## BreakFlame (Feb 29, 2016)

I still think Thought Robot should take it, since the one battle he's in involves him destroying something directly threatening the DC narrative.

Mandrakk was threatening the existence of the DC meta, and Superman overcame him. The ability to manipulate or create meta (admittedly I haven't read/played Umineko, but I believe that's what others are talking about with her writers ability) wouldn't be a large obstacle for him, especially given both he and his opponent were engaged in some kind of metaphysical arms race with each one growing exponentially stronger and adapting to overpower the other. He'd probably be able to adapt to her powers instantly.


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## Bad Wolf (Feb 29, 2016)

> I still think Thought Robot should take it, since the one battle he's in involves him destroying something directly threatening the DC narrative.
> 
> Mandrakk was threatening the existence of the DC meta, and Superman overcame him. The ability to manipulate or create meta (admittedly I haven't read/played Umineko, but I believe that's what others are talking about with her writers ability) wouldn't be a large obstacle for him, especially given both he and his opponent were engaged in some kind of metaphysical arms race with each one growing exponentially stronger and adapting to overpower the other. He'd probably be able to adapt to her powers instantly.


It's quite different, in that story, that superman was almost strong as mandrakk, in fact all the "becoming stronger than that" it's just a bit more than the usual power of friendship, they were fighting with usual punch and beam of energy. Superman didn't adapt to that, he didn't became invincible from that stuff, he taked damage.
The power of the witch I said it's more "absolute" because she can litteraly write "something kills you" and that's it, you're dead and you don't even know why. Even if superman can adapt to that after taking the hit he lack of regeneration

here you can watch


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## Byrd (Feb 29, 2016)

This battle is literally a stalemate IMO...


Authority powers vs Unlimited adaptation


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## Beatrice The Endless Witch (Feb 29, 2016)

Frederica Bernkastel said:


> That's interesting, but that's something already considered (I've actually gone out of the way to downgrade a lot of the verse for this). It's not as hard as you're making it out to be, which is why battle boards here and in Japan have no difficulty using Umineko.



Hmm I'm bad at articulating points like this; I'm not saying they can't be used or that it's hard to use them, in fact any fictional character can be used. My point is that it's entirely subjective, I'm not even saying they are overhyped or should be depowered just that using them is in itself kind of weird, like debating the shape of water, there is no definitive answer as it can be any shape or no shape, tall or flat, falling or stationary, calm or raging ect. It's the same thing here it's an ever changing story where powers can be literally anything or mean anything that and their main method of battle is never used on the forums. Still I do enjoy seeing people debate with them and don't mind that continuing, it's just things like people saying Beatrice is multiversal as a max power cap when she can be much much higher is weird, like their power and ability forms around the forum rather than the series itself. But again it's not a dogma, that's just one perspective. As for this fight I give it to Featherine, all bias aside.

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## Solar (Feb 29, 2016)

Beatrice The Endless Witch said:


> My point is that it's entirely subjective, I'm not even saying they are overhyped or should be depowered just that using them is in itself kind of weird, like debating the shape of water, there is no definitive answer as it can be any shape or no shape, tall or flat, falling or stationary, calm or raging ect. It's the same thing here it's an ever changing story where powers can be literally anything or mean anything that and their main method of battle is never used on the forums.



I get what you're saying.



> it's just things like people saying Beatrice is multiversal as a max power cap when she can be much much higher is weird,



We do that with many characters. 



> like their power and ability forms around the forum rather than the series itself.



This is consistent with many series on all boards. Different boards have different ways of doing things. It's not strange.


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## BreakFlame (Feb 29, 2016)

Bad Wolf said:


> It's quite different, in that story, that superman was almost strong as mandrakk, in fact all the "becoming stronger than that" it's just a bit more than the usual power of friendship, they were fighting with usual punch and beam of energy. Superman didn't adapt to that, he didn't became invincible from that stuff, he taked damage.
> The power of the witch I said it's more "absolute" because she can litteraly write "something kills you" and that's it, you're dead and you don't even know why. Even if superman can adapt to that after taking the hit he lack of regeneration
> 
> here you can watch



No, Superman was pretty explicitly stronger than Mandrakk.

And the narration specifically says that the two of them are constantly growing stronger over the course of the battle.

And my point was that the witch's "absolute" power comes from the fact that she can rewrite the meta of her verse. She writes "you lose" and you lose, even if nothing happened to cause it. That's great, except Mandrakk was going to kill something that was infinitely greater than the entire DC narrative, and Superman overpowered him. Which puts them outside the boundaries of an ability that relies on meta to work.


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## Beatrice The Endless Witch (Mar 1, 2016)

Frederica Bernkastel said:


> I We do that with many characters. .


With those characters it's mainly a case of them not appearing much or having the potential to be greater like Hulk or Gold D. Rodger whom we only have hype for. With Beatrice she is already at that level but is still considered to be multiversal for some reason, when she is much higher, she's meta.




Frederica Bernkastel said:


> IThis is consistent with many series on all boards. Different boards have different ways of doing things. It's not strange.



Right, not arguing that. In fact this is the only board that I visit that still accepts pixel scaling, I'm not arguing that different board have different ways of doing things as far as formatting or characters go. My point in ANY format on any vs board almost completely eliminates  the idea of the character, abilities included. Yes different boards can do things differently like deciding on pixel scaling or not, calculating a character's speed ect. those are all different forum to forum, my main point on that is things like that can't be canonically based on individual interpretation like Umineko characters. You can't say that Ulquiorra Lanza is city level based on how you personally feel, that can be debunked or outright proven false by another panel, you can't really use interpretation on something like that, even more powerful characters like Galactus or even Beyonder. Umineko everything from feats to dialogue are all metaphorical or can be interpreted as something else.


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## Bad Wolf (Mar 1, 2016)

> No, Superman was pretty explicitly stronger than Mandrakk.
> 
> And the narration specifically says that the two of them are constantly growing stronger over the course of the battle.
> 
> And my point was that the witch's "absolute" power comes from the fact that she can rewrite the meta of her verse. She writes "you lose" and you lose, even if nothing happened to cause it. That's great, except Mandrakk was going to kill something that was infinitely greater than the entire DC narrative, and Superman overpowered him. Which puts them outside the boundaries of an ability that relies on meta to work.


The fact that he can grow stronger how can mean that he's going to be "outside the boundaries of an ability that relies on meta to work"? He wasn't really adapting, he was taking punch and beam of energy, from the start to the end and never regenerated from that, he even became blind.
And a note, Mandrakk was going to do all that stuff even with his ship and and missiles


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## Tonathan100 (Mar 1, 2016)

Bad Wolf said:


> The fact that he can grow stronger how can mean that he's going to be "outside the boundaries of an ability that relies on meta to work"? He wasn't really adapting, he was taking punch and beam of energy, from the start to the end and never regenerated from that, *he even became blind.*



Provide evidence for the bold or GTFO.

And by the way, your "he wasn't really adapting" bullshit is debunked by this scan...





> And a note, Mandrakk was going to do all that stuff even with his ship and and missiles



He was going to "sterilize" *universes* with his Destroyer ship and Reality Blitzing Missiles.


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## Bad Wolf (Mar 1, 2016)

> Provide evidence for the bold or GTFO.


Here
watch dragon ball super episode 110
Now *you* can GTFO


> And by the way, your "he wasn't really adapting" bullshit is debunked by this scan...


What's that? I can read that but I don't see any difference, it's not more than the power of friendship of the will that you can even see in garbage like Naruto. HE adapted from what? and In which degree?


> He was going to "sterilize" universes with his Destroyer ship and Reality Blitzing Missiles.


And after that? Why would he need that if he can do with a blink of an eye? In the end he didn't did anything so we are talking about smoke

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## Tonathan100 (Mar 1, 2016)

Bad Wolf said:


> Here
> 
> Now *you* can GTFO



If Cosmic Armor Superman was blind, why was he able to write words on his tombstone?



> What's that? I can read that but I don't see any difference, it's not more than the power of friendship of the will that you can even see in garbage like Naruto. HE adapted from what? and In which degree?



Adapting to Mandrakk's...





> Super strength, speed and durability, flight, time manipulation, spatial manipulation, soul manipulation, conceptual attacks, non-corporeal, vast reality warping, energy beams that are said to equal billions of stars and the "blood of 52 universes" in terms of power, dimensional manipulation, energy manipulation, immortality (type 4), teleportation, invulnerability, vampiric abilities, grows stronger by absorbing power from the Bleed, and many more.






> And after that? Why would he need that if he can do with a blink of an eye? In the end he didn't did anything so we are talking about smoke



Mandrakk the Dark Monitor is as powerful as the Thought Robot, who is massively larger than Limbo.


*Spoiler*: __


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Mar 1, 2016)

Why are you using the wiki as evidence?


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## Tonathan100 (Mar 1, 2016)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> Why are you using the wiki as evidence?



Because it has a convenient listing of all of Mandrakk's powers and abilities.


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## Bad Wolf (Mar 1, 2016)

> If Cosmic Armor Superman was blind, why was he able to write words on his tombstone?


... You are right even when the scan say so? And I don't see that a problem, you can write without looking. He was blind.



> Adapting to Mandrakk's...


... adapting to what? Strength? Beam of energy? And in which degree? Let's be honest, if you want to count that (which is laughable...) you don't have any quantificable way to use that in a fight. How do you even know that he adapt to everything?



> Mandrakk the Dark Monitor is as powerful as the Thought Robot, who is massively larger than Limbo.


"As if" could suggest that's just a "metaphorical visualization" of his feeling. But I had to rewatch that part to say that, so let's say that he's bigger than Limbo. He still can't regenerate, turn back to life, help his girl without the bleed... how can he defend himself against the power of the witch with that?


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Mar 1, 2016)

Tonathan100 said:


> Because it has a convenient listing of all of Mandrakk's powers and abilities.



Scans, use them


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## Tonathan100 (Mar 1, 2016)

Bad Wolf said:


> ... You are right even when the scan say so? And I don't see that a problem, *you can write without looking*. He was blind.



But you cannot write coherently without looking. Which is what the Thought Robot did. 



> ... adapting to what? Strength? Beam of energy? And in which degree? Let's be honest, if you want to count that (which is laughable...) you don't have any quantificable way to use that in a fight. How do you even know that he adapt to everything?



The Thought Robot was adapting to *all* of Mandrakk's powers, as Mandrakk would logically use all of them in a death battle against someone. Adapting to Mandrakk's every move. Becoming stronger so Mandrakk's powers won't even affect him anymore.



> "As if" could suggest that's just a "metaphorical visualization" of his feeling. But I had to rewatch that part to say that, so let's say that he's bigger than Limbo.



The scene is blatantly face value. And the sentence that starts with "as if" was about the presence (i.e. the reader) that the Thought Robot sensed.

[QUOTE[He still can't regenerate[/QUOTE]

He can and has during his fight with Mandrakk. It is part of his Superior Adaption superpower.

For those who don't know what "Superior Adaption" is: 



> turn back to life



He can turn back to life if Post-Crisis Superman and Post-Crisis Ultraman fuse again. He only "died" because his task (defeating Mandrakk) was finished anyway.



> help his girl without the bleed



Plot-Induced Stupidity.



> ... how can he defend himself against the power of the witch with that?



Because his reality warping is Multi-Megaverse Level+, while Featherine Augustus Aurora is "only" Megaverse Level+.


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## Byrd (Mar 1, 2016)

> Because his reality warping is Multi-Megaverse Level+, while Featherine Augustus Aurora is "only" Megaverse Level+.



You know only you believe this right

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Mar 1, 2016)

Scans... use them


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## Tonathan100 (Mar 1, 2016)

Byrd said:


> You know only you believe this right



Except that I can back it up with facts....


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## Bad Wolf (Mar 1, 2016)

> But you cannot write coherently without looking. Which is what the Thought Robot did.


... Yes you can. At least, I can, don't know if that a super power that I only have


> The Thought Robot was adapting to all of Mandrakk's powers, as Mandrakk would logically use all of them in a death battle against someone. Adapting to Mandrakk's every move. Becoming stronger so Mandrakk's powers won't even affect him anymore.


How can you say that he adapted to all his power? And be unaffected by mandrakk power? Why not only more resistent? and "all" is very little for what was shown... And if he adapted really... That sucked, really, he taked all the damage, became blind and couldn't pass that even after winning and was so injured that was beyond repair (as  scan says )
That could mean many things like that he can't adapt to anything or that he have limit adaptive power or other. But in the end he can be injured in a way he can't do anything 


> He can and has during his fight with Mandrakk. It is part of his Superior Adaption superpower.
> 
> For those who don't know what "Superior Adaption" is:


Wait, you say this only for the "The stronger he becomes, the stronger I become to oppose him"? Because I can't find a scan where he regenerate



> Plot-Induced Stupidity.


Ok, that's could explain if he didn't think about her, but in the end he's thinking about her and still saying that he need the bleed



> Because his reality warping is Multi-Megaverse Level+, while Featherine Augustus Aurora is "only" Megaverse Level+.


What reality warping? He punched the shit out of mandrakk but it was the usual stuff in a different... dimension? Even how he defeted him isn't that clever, but more of that show that falling in the overmonitor is the end for mandrakk (?). More than destroying everything with is power that show that he is defeted by that.


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## Tonathan100 (Mar 1, 2016)

Bad Wolf said:


> ... Yes you can. At least, I can, don't know if that a super power that I only have



Prove it.



> How can you say that he adapted to all his power? And be unaffected by mandrakk power? Why not only more resistent? and "all" is very little for what was shown... And if he adapted really... That sucked, really, he taked all the damage, became blind and couldn't pass that even after winning and was so injured that was beyond repair (as  scan says )
> That could mean many things like that he can't adapt to anything or that he have limit adaptive power or other. But in the end he can be injured in a way he can't do anything



A statement from a Monitor that has no idea how the Thought Robot functions is by no means absolute truth on the Thought Robot's limitations. 

The Thought Robot clearly wasn't blind after his battle with Mandrakk, as he was capable of writing. coherently and in typewriter quality handwriting.

The Thought Robot only stopped because his task, defeating Mandrakk, was done.



> Wait, you say this only for the "The stronger he becomes, the stronger I become to oppose him"? Because I can't find a scan where he regenerate



Of course.



> Ok, that's could explain if he didn't think about her, but in the end he's thinking about her and still saying that he need the bleed



Again, Plot-Induced Stupidity.



> What reality warping? He punched the shit out of mandrakk but it was the usual stuff in a different... dimension? Even how he defeted him isn't that clever, but more of that show that falling in the overmonitor is the end for mandrakk (?). More than destroying everything with is power that show that he is defeted by that.



Mandrakk has reality warping, Thought Robot adapts to gain reality warping in turn. And he would need to have reality warping to touch Limbo without breaking it due to his sheer size.


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## Solar (Mar 1, 2016)

Tonathan100 said:


> Except that I can back it up with facts....



That's what you say for everything you claim.


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## Bad Wolf (Mar 2, 2016)

> Prove it.


Really? Just go on youtube and watch or try yourself, if you can't that might explain a lot...
You have to proof that he wasn't blind, you don't see his eyes and they say that, if he can write it's a different thing. Don't try to change the topic, he was blind and can't adapt to that



> A statement from a Monitor that has no idea how the Thought Robot functions is by no means absolute truth on the Thought Robot's limitations.


A statement from someone who almost builded that thing. And you have to proof that he's talking bullshit, superman could have said "what are you saying man? I can see"



> The Thought Robot clearly wasn't blind after his battle with Mandrakk, as he was capable of writing. coherently and in typewriter quality handwriting.


This is just false, he was blind. He even not had his eyes



> The Thought Robot only stopped because his task, defeating Mandrakk, was done.


Even this, proof it. They said that he was beyond repair and he was writing in his own tombstone, do you know what they are for, right? , read just in case


> Of course.


That don't proof anything, evidence shows the opposite, *THIS* is something that isn't logic, not that he can write when he's blind


> Again, Plot-Induced Stupidity.


You say that, proof it. Because for now it's a limit for him. Did he recovered someone else that had the same problem? No. Can he reality warp? No. Proof that he can heal her.



> Mandrakk has reality warping, Thought Robot adapts to gain reality warping in turn. And he would need to have reality warping to touch Limbo without breaking it due to his sheer size.


Proof that mandrakk has reality warping. Proof that he adapted to reality warping. And he didn't touched it, it says "as if... I can touch that". And proof that you need reality warping to touch it, because as I saw logic need to be explained.


----------



## Shining Force (Mar 2, 2016)

This thread is quite cancerous, more so than the HST-related stuff. Anything above multiversal are quite hard to measure with a standard ruler, when the term "multiverse" itself is unquantifiable (It can go from two to infinite universes). Also how can they have beings "threats to all creations" when they are not strictly omnipotent? Quite a paradox when two "threats to all creations" fight each other. Also plot changing/manipulation abilities should be verse-exclusive (more into PIS/plot-device/gag/cosmic category) rather than actual offensive power and should not affect the "neutral omniverse" where the fight takes place unless they fight in the DCverse or Umineko-verse


----------



## Tonathan100 (Mar 2, 2016)

Bad Wolf said:


> Really? Just go on youtube and watch or try yourself, if you can't that might explain a lot...
> You have to proof that he wasn't blind, you don't see his eyes and they say that, if he can write it's a different thing. Don't try to change the topic, he was blind and can't adapt to that



1. He didn't bother to adapt because his task was accomplished.

2. He wasn't blind because we could write perfectly.



> A statement from someone who almost builded that thing. And you have to proof that he's talking bullshit, superman could have said "what are you saying man? I can see"


1. Wrong. *Dax Novu* was the one who built the Thought Robot. And yet you claim to have read Final Crisis.

2. The Thought Robot was capable of writing typewriter quality English on his tombstone, which alone is proof that him being blind is bullshit.



> This is just false, he was blind. He even not had his eyes


1. His eyes not being shown is an artistic style

2. Again, he could write perfectly, which debunks him being blind.



> Even this, proof it. They said that he was beyond repair and he was writing in his own tombstone, do you know what they are for, right? , read just in case



1. The Monitors have no idea how the Thought Robot was even constructed, let alone whether or not he was damaged beyond repair.

2. The Thought Robot only "died" when his task was accomplished. In fact, if he was damaged beyond repair during the fight, then Mandrakk would have defeated him. Simple as that.



> That don't proof anything, evidence shows the opposite, *THIS* is something that isn't logic, not that he can write when he's blind



It proves that the Thought Robot is capable of adapting to Mandrakk's every move and power, and Mandrakk adapted in turn. This would logically include regenerating from Mandrakk's attacks.



> You say that, proof it. Because for now it's a limit for him. Did he recovered someone else that had the same problem? No. Can he reality warp? No. Proof that he can heal her.



The ability to heal people kind of comes with the package of being a Multi-Megaverse Level+ reality warper. The fact that he said that he couldn't is PIS and CIS.



> Proof that mandrakk has reality warping. Proof that he adapted to reality warping. And he didn't touched it, it says "as if... I can touch that". And proof that you need reality warping to touch it, because as I saw logic need to be explained.



Literally *all* Monitors are capable of reality warping. Mandrakk is exempt from this how? Not to mention that you need to be fucking blind not to see that the Thought Robot touched Limbo.


*Spoiler*: __ 








Look at the bottom panel.

And considering the Thought Robot's sheer size, of course he would need reality warping not to break Limbo by touching it.


----------



## Bad Wolf (Mar 2, 2016)

> Also plot changing/manipulation abilities should be verse-exclusive (more into PIS/plot-device/gag/cosmic category) rather than actual offensive power and should not affect the "neutral omniverse" where the fight takes place unless they fight in the DCverse or Umineko-verse


If this was for the witch. It's a bit different, it's similar to a plot device but it's used only as a weapon only one enemy in a fight. It think it sould work in a neutral omniverse


> 1. He didn't bother to adapt because his task was accomplished.


He was blinded in the fight, not later because of old age. 



> 2. He wasn't blind because we could write perfectly.





> 2. The Thought Robot was capable of writing typewriter quality English on his tombstone, which alone is proof that him being blind is bullshit.





> 2. Again, he could write perfectly, which debunks him being blind.


Blind ≠ can't write.
And, you're saying that he can write he wasn't blind, so prove me that's impossible to write when blind.



> 1. Wrong. Dax Novu was the one who built the Thought Robot. And yet you claim to have read Final Crisis.


> Almost
Still one of that race.


> 1. His eyes not being shown is an artistic style


Just like when he touched limbo? Or when with a narrative style the narrator says that they were becoming stronger and stronger?


> 1. The Monitors have no idea how the Thought Robot was even constructed, let alone whether or not he was damaged beyond repair.


Prove that they don't know anything. They explained many things. Prove that they're wrong.



> 2. The Thought Robot only "died" when his task was accomplished. In fact, if he was damaged beyond repair during the fight, then Mandrakk would have defeated him. Simple as that.


Lol, why did I even read the comics if I have you that can say where the comics is wrong because doesn't follow your expectations. Really. He was wounded, he was dying, blind. They even said that and you still try to refuse that. I'm speechless


> It proves that the Thought Robot is capable of adapting to Mandrakk's every move and power, and Mandrakk adapted in turn. This would logically include regenerating from Mandrakk's attacks.


And all of this was reveled in a different comics I guess. Or as usual, from your own novel


> The ability to heal people kind of comes with the package of being a Multi-Megaverse Level+ reality warper. The fact that he said that he couldn't is PIS and CIS.


And still I can't see any scan or proof that he can heal people


> Literally all Monitors are capable of reality warping. Mandrakk is exempt from this how? Not to mention that you need to be fucking blind not to see that the Thought Robot touched Limbo


But that's ARTISTIC STYLE. And it's under the limbo, he can be only near



> And considering the Thought Robot's sheer size, of course he would need reality warping not to break Limbo by touching it.


I can say many things. As...
- Artistic style
- It was a symbolistic (supported by narration)
- the limbo looked like that because superman there but that's it (I can make a photo where it seems that I'm touching the sun even it is far away)
- I can touch a cube of 1 cm x 1 cm of Iron but that don't proof that I can break it


----------



## Tonathan100 (Mar 2, 2016)

Bad Wolf said:


> He was blinded in the fight, not later because of old age.



What does that have to do with anything? And if he was "blinded" in the fight, it surely wasn't shown.





> The battle between Cosmic Armour and Mandrakk:
> 
> 
> 
> ...






> Blind ≠ can't write.
> And, you're saying that he can write he wasn't blind, so prove me that's impossible to write when blind.



I was talking about how it would be impossible to write in such perfect handwriting while blind, not the inability to write at all when blind.



> > Almost
> Still one of that race.



That doesn't help your case at all.



> Just like when he touched limbo? Or when with a narrative style the narrator says that they were becoming stronger and stronger?



There was nothing poetic about those. Both can be taken at face value.



> Prove that they don't know anything. They explained many things. Prove that they're wrong.



The fact that the Thought Robot can write in perfect handwriting alone debunks the idea that he was blinded.



> Lol, why did I even read the comics if I have you that can say where the comics is wrong because doesn't follow your expectations. Really. He was wounded, he was dying, blind. They even said that and you still try to refuse that. I'm speechless



If he was wounded beyond repair during the fight, then Mandrakk would have defeated him.

If he was dying in the fight, then Mandrakk would have killed him.

If he was blinded during the fight, then Mandrakk would have overcame him.

It's called fucking logic. Use it sometime.



> And all of this was reveled in a different comics I guess. Or as usual, from your own novel



Wrong. All of this is factual, and from a person who has actually read Final Crisis: Superman Beyond.



> And still I can't see any scan or proof that he can heal people



You apparently have no idea what PIS or CIS is, so I'll link them to you:





[/QUOTE]But that's ARTISTIC STYLE. And it's under the limbo, he can be only near[/QUOTE]

Literally what.



> I can say many things. As...
> - Artistic style
> - It was a symbolistic (supported by narration)



Both of these are impossible.



> - the limbo looked like that because superman there but that's it (I can make a photo where it seems that I'm touching the sun even it is far away)



The perspective of the scene blatantly debunks that.



> - I can touch a cube of 1 cm x 1 cm of Iron but that don't proof that I can break it



Try the Giantess Calculator sometime. If this post is anything to go by, will fucking amaze you.


----------



## Bad Wolf (Mar 3, 2016)

> What does that have to do with anything? And if he was "blinded" in the fight, it surely wasn't shown.


He was blinded and injured in the fight. It is even shown when he lost his eyes lol so he can't adapt to all. And that's funny, we don't even see an image that show superman adapting to reallity warping (or anything at all) but even if they don't even say something like that you claim that he did it. But this, that we can see and they talk about you don't consider it. It's like I'll start saying that mandrakk isn't the vampire but a pink fluppy unicorn, that's your level of answer

You know that your're still posting something that someone else poster because you can't asnwer by yourself? And I don't care if they also talk about something that isn't written in the comics like:
"In the end, the cosmic armour *got too close to the overvoid, it couldnt adapt to it and thus couldnt function anymore*."
This isn't supported by anything



> I was talking about how it would be impossible to write in such perfect handwriting while blind, not the inability to write at all when blind.





> The fact that the Thought Robot can write in perfect handwriting alone debunks the idea that he was blinded.


Now we're improving. But the problem is different, it's impossible to write with a perfect handwriting even we you can see, but he's not you. He's Superman.
And for you it's possible for him to adapt to everything but impossible to write so well? Really? this is the problem?



> That doesn't help your case at all.


And you still haven't proved that they can't say when someone is blind and injured. We see a scan that show that, prove that I can't trust it



> There was nothing poetic about those. Both can be taken at face value.


It was poetic, and it used even the form "If"



> If he was wounded beyond repair during the fight, then Mandrakk would have defeated him.


why? It's normal in a fight to became injured.



> If he was dying in the fight, then Mandrakk would have killed him.


implying that mandrakk  could and wasn't injured



> If he was blinded during the fight, then Mandrakk would have overcame him.


You really don't know when he become blind, eh?



> It's called fucking logic. Use it sometime.


Like saying that's impossible for superman to write well when blind? Oh yeah, it's logic that the scan says some bullshit and he fought a being that could adapt to him as well but still won. Yeah, such logic, how can I doubt this?



> Wrong. All of this is factual, and from a person who has actually read Final Crisis: Superman Beyond.


Then why you don't show me a scan where we can see him doing this? Oh maybe because it doesn't exist at all



> You apparently have no idea what PIS or CIS is, so I'll link them to you:


Or maybe you use term you barely know when you like. Superman wasn't that smart? ok. But even the narration says that only bleed can save lois 



> Literally what.


We see the finger under the limbo, we can't say if he's touching it or not because limbo is in the foreground 



> Both of these are impossible.


Nope, the second is even supported by the narration



> Try the Giantess Calculator sometime. If this post is anything to go by, will fucking amaze you.


>giantess calculator
>trying to prove something bigger than the universe
Really? And that doesn't change the fact the even if he can touch limbo like that he doesn't mean he can break it.


----------



## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Mar 3, 2016)

Literally there is a fucking scan that has a Monitor saying it adapts and you couldn't be bothered to post it. Instead you argue like a broken record providing no proof. Jesus Tonathan, go through the scans and make a coherent argument.


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## Byrd (Mar 3, 2016)

oh shit


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## Tonathan100 (Mar 3, 2016)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> Literally there is a fucking scan that has a Monitor saying it adapts and you couldn't be bothered to post it. Instead you argue like a broken record providing no proof. Jesus Tonathan, go through the scans and make a coherent argument.



I legitimately didn't find that scan for a while, and when I did, I was just about to post that scan....

I apologize for my broken record debating, though


----------



## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Mar 3, 2016)

There is absolutely nothing wrong with taking a step back from a debate and looking for evidence dude.


----------



## Tonathan100 (Mar 3, 2016)

Note: All of my scans come from this...





Now, let's go!



Bad Wolf said:


> He was blinded and injured in the fight. It is even shown when he lost his eyes lol so he can't adapt to all. And that's funny, we don't even see an image that show superman adapting to reallity warping (or anything at all) but even if they don't even say something like that you claim that he did it. But this, that we can see and they talk about you don't consider it. It's like I'll start saying that mandrakk isn't the vampire but a pink fluppy unicorn, that's your level of answer





It was explicitly stated that the Thought-Robot can instantly adapt to counter *any* future threat. He was only blinded and "lost his eyes" and didn't bother to adapt to it because his task was accomplished and the beings who made him up (Superman and Ultraman) unfused.





> You know that your're still posting something that someone else poster because you can't asnwer by yourself? And I don't care if they also talk about something that isn't written in the comics like:
> "In the end, the cosmic armour *got too close to the overvoid, it couldnt adapt to it and thus couldnt function anymore*."
> This isn't supported by anything







Note that the Thought-Robot's eyes darkened when he came too close to the Overvoid.



> Now we're improving. But the problem is different, it's impossible to write with a perfect handwriting even we you can see, but he's not you. He's Superman.
> And for you it's possible for him to adapt to everything but impossible to write so well? Really? this is the problem?



You're trying to use the idea that he was blind that he cannot adapt to anything. I'm arguing that even if he was blinded and he didn't adapt, it was due to the fact that his task was accomplished and that his energy was running out, as evidenced by Superman and Ultraman falling through the Bleed when the Thought-Robot thought "I'm falling. Burning. Ears ringing."



> And you still haven't proved that they can't say when someone is blind and injured. We see a scan that show that, prove that I can't trust it



While the Monitors have done extensive study of the Thought-Robot, they are still unsure about certain parts of how it functions. For example, after arduous examination, the Monitors said that "it *can* only be a weapon, denoting a slight lack of knowledge about its actual function.



> It was poetic, and it used even the form "If"



If =/= "poetic". And by the way, the "if" statement was referring to Superman trying to touch the reader. As a Reddit respect thread states:





> •Can hear the reader's breathing. Can feel the reader grabbing the pages of the comic. Note that the original comic was in 3D, so he's actually trying to touch the reader.







> why? It's normal in a fight to became injured.



When you'r injuries are this debilitating, then you would have lost a fight period.



> implying that mandrakk  could and wasn't injured



Mandrakk is shot through with heat vision...



Then Mandrakk's body is fine after that...





> You really don't know when he become blind, eh?







Note that the Thought-Robot's eyes darkened when he came too close to the Overvoid.



> Like saying that's impossible for superman to write well when blind? Oh yeah, it's logic that the scan says some bullshit and he fought a being that could adapt to him as well but still won. Yeah, such logic, how can I doubt this?



Stop blubbering.



> Then why you don't show me a scan where we can see him doing this? Oh maybe because it doesn't exist at all









> Or maybe you use term you barely know when you like. Superman wasn't that smart? ok. But even the narration says that only bleed can save lois



I'll concede that the Thought Robot cannot use its reality warping abilities for healing purposes.



> We see the finger under the limbo, we can't say if he's touching it or not because limbo is in the foreground





He's clearly touching Limbo. And they are blatantly close to each other.



> Nope, the second is even supported by the narration



Wrong. The scene blatantly shows Superman and Limbo being close to each other.



> >giantess calculator
> >trying to prove something bigger than the universe
> Really? And that doesn't change the fact the even if he can touch limbo like that he doesn't mean he can break it.



Here's a simple calculation for what happens when you are as large than the Universe.



5.4681E23 miles, 0 feet, and 0 inches when one is a giantess...

...gives us a being who can output 1.1826080283553325E108 joules with a *step*. More energy than the Big Bang. And this is for someone who is the size of a *universe*, not massively larger than a multi-megaversal+ superstructure, one that contains all of Hypertime and the Metaverse.


----------



## Bad Wolf (Mar 3, 2016)

> It was explicitly stated that the Thought-Robot can instantly adapt to counter any future threat. He was only blinded and "lost his eyes" and didn't bother to adapt to it because his task was accomplished and the beings who made him up (Superman and Ultraman) unfused.


So? We see him getting injured and blinded *in the fight*, so that's only a NLF from that I can see. Or better, you can say that he can adapt to any future *threat* but what that mean? In the fight he clearly didn't become 
resistant to anything, so it's pretty much unquantifiable



> Note that the Thought-Robot's eyes darkened when he came too close to the Overvoid.


Still that line isn't anywhere in the text, no one claimed that, it's not even logical, why sould he become blind? why not paraplegic, his legs are lower. It's more logical to say that with that laser sight he used all he had so much to go blind


> You're trying to use the idea that he was blind that he cannot adapt to anything. I'm arguing that even if he was blinded and he didn't adapt, it was due to the fact that his task was accomplished and that his energy was running out, as evidenced by Superman and Ultraman falling through the Bleed when the Thought-Robot thought "I'm falling. Burning. Ears ringing."


Because that's the clearest way to show that he didn't adapted. Even because the text says "Capable of adapting instantly to counter any future threat" which literally mean that he could see into the future to a threat and adapt to it, so the excuse to say that the fight was almost over doesn't hold, because he sould have adapted from the beginning. Oh but who made that declaration? One of the monitor! But for you they weren't "The Monitors have no idea how the Thought Robot was even constructed, let alone whether or not he was damaged beyond repair." so why no you give them credit?



> While the Monitors have done extensive study of the Thought-Robot, they are still unsure about certain parts of how it functions. For example, after arduous examination, the Monitors said that "it can only be a weapon, denoting a slight lack of knowledge about its actual function.


So still, your only claim that they are always right for the fact like the robot can adapt to anything (though we don't have any evidence of a perfect adaptation in the fight) but for not say if he was blind or not, even if we see his eyes different and superman doesn't say that he can see



> If =/= "poetic". And by the way, the "if" statement was referring to Superman trying to touch the reader. As a Reddit respect thread states:


You haven't read Dante, do you? I call that interpretation, he even speaks about "smoke of galaxies, everything is ringing, the whole continuum trembles as if cradled".



> When you're injuries are this debilitating, then you would have lost a fight period.


Not necessarily, you don't have an absolute victory, as we see



>


Oh gosh, again, that's the claim, still we don't see him regenerating, at the end of the fight he's injured and blinded



> He's clearly touching Limbo. And they are blatantly close to each other.





> Wrong. The scene blatantly shows Superman and Limbo being close to each other.


Close from the art, yes, touching? Maybe. But the important thing is this

"Here in Limbo, there is no material thing to be destroyed. Limbo is a living memory" So, it's right the opposite, you need at least reality warping to at least destroy it



> Here's a simple calculation for what happens when you are as large than the Universe.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sigh, you know that you can't use physics in this way? And you know that's meaningless from the point of the fight?


----------



## Tonathan100 (Mar 3, 2016)

Bad Wolf said:


> So? We see him getting injured and blinded *in the fight*, so that's only a NLF from that I can see. Or better, you can say that he can adapt to any future *threat* but what that mean? In the fight he clearly didn't become
> resistant to anything, so it's pretty much unquantifiable



He was not injured at all during the fight. He was only blinded when he got to close to the Overvoid, and if you cannot survive being in the Overvoid, then all of your form and meaning is absorbed by it, as shown by Mandrakk.

The Thought-Robot clearly says in battle that as Mandrakk grows stronger, the Thought-Robot grows stronger to counter him. And vice versa. This means that Mandrakk also has Superior Adaption, which is why the Thought-Robot didn't instantly become resistant or immune to all of Mandrakk's attacks.



Superpowers and abilities like Superior Adaption are unquantifiable by definition, so I don't see your point on that.



> Still that line isn't anywhere in the text, no one claimed that, it's not even logical, why sould he become blind? why not paraplegic, his legs are lower. It's more logical to say that with that laser sight he used all he had so much to go blind



Superman and Ultraman have used heat vision all of the time without going blind, so it would be no different with the Thought Robot. Not to mention that if something is _shown,_ then it doesn't need to be _stated_. The Thought-Robot was only shown to be blinded when he got too close to the Overvoid, logic be damned. As to why he didn't go paraplegic....seriously? Comic books don't have to follow logic at all.



> Because that's the clearest way to show that he didn't adapted. Even because the text says "Capable of adapting instantly to counter any future threat" which literally mean that he could see into the future to a threat and adapt to it, so the excuse to say that the fight was almost over doesn't hold, because he sould have adapted from the beginning. Oh but who made that declaration? One of the monitor! But for you they weren't "The Monitors have no idea how the Thought Robot was even constructed, let alone whether or not he was damaged beyond repair." so why no you give them credit?



I'll admit that I was wrong about the Monitor's not having any idea how the Thought-Robot works. What I will not admit wrongness on, however, is the meaning of the claim. The quote clearly means that the Thought-Robot will adapt instantly to any future threat *when such threats come*, not that the Thought-Robot will literally see the future and adapt to it.

Again, the Thought-Robot clearly says in battle that as Mandrakk grows stronger, the Thought-Robot grows stronger to counter him. And vice versa. This means that Mandrakk also has Superior Adaption, which is why the Thought-Robot didn't instantly become resistant or immune to all of Mandrakk's attacks.





> So still, your only claim that they are always right for the fact like the robot can adapt to anything (though we don't have any evidence of a perfect adaptation in the fight) but for not say if he was blind or not, even if we see his eyes different and superman doesn't say that he can see



Why would the Thought-Robot take time to correct something so irrelevant when Lois Lane's life is on the line?

Yet again, the Thought-Robot clearly says in battle that as Mandrakk grows stronger, the Thought-Robot grows stronger to counter him. And vice versa. This means that Mandrakk also has Superior Adaption, which is why the Thought-Robot didn't instantly become resistant or immune to all of Mandrakk's attacks.





> You haven't read Dante, do you? I call that interpretation, he even speaks about "smoke of galaxies, everything is ringing, the whole continuum trembles as if cradled".



That is the Thought-Robot sensing the reader holding the comic book.



> Not necessarily, you don't have an absolute victory, as we see



What circular reasoning is this? I crow that if he was blinded during the fight, then he would have lost. You say that sustaining a debilitating injury doesn't necessarily mean that you will lose a fight...by pointing out that the Thought-Robot



> Oh gosh, again, that's the claim, still we don't see him regenerating, at the end of the fight he's injured and blinded



I noticed that he only became damaged beyond repair and blinded, and apparently couldn't adapt to either, when he got to close to the Overvoid.







> Close from the art, yes, touching? Maybe. But the important thing is this
> 
> "Here in Limbo, there is no material thing to be destroyed. Limbo is a living memory" So, it's right the opposite, you need at least reality warping to at least destroy it



Then nice job proving that the Thought-Robot has reality warping.



> Sigh, you know that you can't use physics in this way? And you know that's meaningless from the point of the fight?



Oh please, do explain both of these "points" that you just made.


----------



## Bad Wolf (Mar 4, 2016)

> He was not injured at all during the fight.


Again a false statement. 



> He *was only blinded when he got to close to the Overvoid*, and if you cannot survive being in the Overvoid, then all of your form and meaning is absorbed by it, as shown by Mandrakk.


Don't have any reference in the story, or in the visual image, so again a false statement. And even if it was true that only mean that he couldn't adapt to that.



> The Thought-Robot clearly says in battle that as Mandrakk grows stronger, the Thought-Robot grows stronger to counter him. And vice versa. This means that Mandrakk also has Superior Adaption, which is why the Thought-Robot didn't instantly become resistant or immune to all of Mandrakk's attacks.
> 
> 
> 
> Superpowers and abilities like Superior Adaption are unquantifiable by definition, so I don't see your point on that.


Super Adaption can be quantificable if properly showed. Here we don't see anything, we don't have a clue or it's limit or effectiveness. Here like this is only an unquantifiable NLF of an statement



> Superman and Ultraman have used heat vision all of the time without going blind, so it would be no different with the Thought Robot. Not to mention that if something is shown, then it doesn't need to be stated. The Thought-Robot was only shown to be blinded when he got too close to the Overvoid, logic be damned. As to why he didn't go paraplegic....seriously? Comic books don't have to follow logic at all.


that's not logical, i't just an argument you're trying to say for the fact that he went blind even with his supposed adaptive powers. We see only that the Overvoid delete mandrakk in many ways, stop. How do you know that it was affecting the TR from here? 



> 'll admit that I was wrong about the Monitor's not having any idea how the Thought-Robot works.


That's a bit sneaky, you know? You only pick what you need and discard all the rest that goes against your own vision



> What I will not admit wrongness on, however, is the meaning of the claim. The quote clearly means that the Thought-Robot will adapt instantly to any future threat when such threats come, not that the Thought-Robot will literally see the future and adapt to it.
> Again, the Thought-Robot clearly says in battle that as Mandrakk grows stronger, the Thought-Robot grows stronger to counter him. And vice versa. This means that Mandrakk also has Superior Adaption, which is why the Thought-Robot didn't instantly become resistant or immune to all of Mandrakk's attacks.


That don't change anything. Your claim now is "when TR is being affected by anything he instantly to that threat, so only with a stimulus his adaptive powers are activated"
But he still was blinded and injured in the fight, he couldn't adapt to those strikes, and the claim that even mandrakk was adapting don't mean anything, because he would be adapted to a TG prior to the next adaptation. That would be a perfect tie, so obviously it did not happen.



> Why would the Thought-Robot take time to correct something so irrelevant when Lois Lane's life is on the line?


Are you claiming that the adapting ability have some efforts? Some waste of time? That wouldn't be better if he could to instantly be in a perfect form, fix everything that still need be to be fixed and save lois?



> That is the Thought-Robot sensing the reader holding the comic book.


this is *one* interpretation, just because you read it from the net that doesn't mean that's an absolute truth. Please



> What circular reasoning is this? I crow that if he was blinded during the fight, then he would have lost. You say that sustaining a debilitating injury doesn't necessarily mean that you will lose a fight...by pointing out that the Thought-Robot


this is meaningless, the point is still that he could be blinded, injured and all.



> I noticed that he only became damaged beyond repair and blinded, and apparently couldn't adapt to either, when he got to close to the Overvoid.


The overvoid don't even injury someone or blind people, It delete them. He was even injured in the fight  he was screaming in pain  and showing damage  . And guess when he  a piece of the cheek? 



> Then nice job proving that the Thought-Robot has reality warping.


Oh gosh... You can walk and touch stuff in limbo, they where in the limbo. Your point was that he needed reality warping to not break the limbo when touching it. that's false because it was said that you can't destroy the limbo



> Oh please, do explain both of these "points" that you just made.


It's like using a ruler as a proof for the power of superman. Should I even take that seriously? Please, it's ridiculous, stop claiming things like this


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Mar 4, 2016)

How about you two agree to disagree cause it's clear this isn't going anywhere.


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## Tonathan100 (Mar 4, 2016)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> How about you two agree to disagree cause it's clear this isn't going anywhere.



Not until I get the last word. *Then* you can lock this thread.


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