# Current RT5 vs C3



## Fel1x (Oct 23, 2021)

so after all this feats are you still positive RT5 can't defeat C3?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Typhon (Oct 23, 2021)

Yes, I am still positive they would get folded

Reactions: Like 9 | Agree 4 | Winner 1


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## Van Basten (Oct 23, 2021)

Hell no. C3 wins obviously.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Bobybobster (Oct 23, 2021)

meigo would've ended kidd

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Vengarl (Oct 23, 2021)

Luffy, Zoro and Kid by themselves could take on the C3, with Killer and Laws support it's no contest. Remember these guys were taking on 2 Yonko, not just Kaido.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## TheOmega (Oct 23, 2021)

All 3 C3 would diddy bop them nikkas

The C3 won't play with their food or stand still and troll. 

It'll just be mass AoE spamming until RT5 get cooked

Reactions: Winner 3


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## Lord Melkor (Oct 23, 2021)

They may  perhaps take two of them, but three Logia Admirals would be too much IMO. The AOE would be insane.

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## Duhul10 (Oct 23, 2021)

Funny to see AoE means sh*t now, because we're talking about Admirals, who don't exceed in anything else  on topic, current RT5 win.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mylesime (Oct 23, 2021)

It's one thing to have the Yonkos above the admirals, but having to face a whole  grown-ass Top Tier more than the team those same rookies were struggling against?
They get destroyed.
C3 every day.

Reactions: Winner 2 | Creative 1


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## Bobybobster (Oct 23, 2021)

unfortunately for rt5 the admirals aren't idiots who will stand there and take their attacks. Akainu's attacks are far more lethal than the likes of meme's/kaido's, so they won't be as forgiving to be hit by.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Mihawk (Oct 23, 2021)

The C3 are still close to the very pinnacle of modern top tiers, and their mindset is completely different from Kaido/Big Mom.

2 of them can probably beat the RT5 if Kaido/BM had to be separated just so the Novas have a chance.
The Supernovas as they were in their fight on the roof vs the Yonko would get obliterated.

But let's look at where the R5 are currently at this point:

-Luffy: Close to Admiral level, split the skies yada yada but Kaido still stronger and likely by quite a bit
-Kidd: Doing some work against Big Mom, a couple impressive hits but currently losing ground
-Zoro: Did great on the roof but is being pushed hard right now by King, a YC1.
-Law: Did amazing on the roof too, holding BM off along with Kidd mainly.
-Killer: Beat Hawkins, cut Kaido a little bit, is Kidd's fm

The biggest improvement so far from the Rooftop fight is definitely Luffy. He's the only who is shown to clash on even grounds with an Emperor in 1v1, in some instances so far.

I'm still confident Akainu puts him down. Aokiji is likely strong enough to beat Kidd and Law or hold them on the ropes long enough for Akainu to come help, while Kizaru beats Current Zoro _without_ high-difficulty, and absolutely folds Killer.

You can switch the match ups and let Kizaru or Aokiji be the one to take Luffy down, but as long as one of the Admirals can beat Luffy over time, the other 2 can handle the other pair of duos. This could potentially free up Akainu to dominate one of the Supernova pairs.

OR this actually plays out as a 3v5 instead of a 1v1 + 1v2 + 1v2.

Seeing as the C3 might not even split up and be susceptible to getting outwitted by Law and Kidd as Big Mom was, they might just rain hell on the R5 with their combined elemental attacks, which the R5 will try to resist for as long as possible as they attempt to punch, kick, slash, drop, and smack their way through it.

Over time, I don't think they will be able to match the Colored Trio's collective stamina or their potential synergy in this scenario. There's just way too much coming at them. It will be very interesting to see how the R5 work together in this situation, and how Law would go about moving them around tactically against this match up (where the approach will be completely different than their rooftop fight).

Finally, it was implied that had the Supernovas stuck together, the Rocks Duo would've wiped out the Rooftop 5 with their combined attack. The current power up to Luffy has just changed the equation bit, but with 3 of the MF Admirals together (with them even having potentially grown stronger since then), I don't see a way out for the Novas as they succumb to a horrible end.

C3, mid-high diff. Any possibility of high-difficulty is only due to Luffy's presence.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 2 | Informative 1


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## TheOmega (Oct 23, 2021)

I think even if you take the Rooftop 5 RIGHT NOW make em fresh and put them against the C3, the C3 will STILL cook the fuck outta them

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## Duhul10 (Oct 23, 2021)

People tend to forget to cooperation factor. The RT5 have chemistry of an extreme level. We're talking about a team that consists of (probably ) 2 cocoa users, one low top tier, one borderline top tier, a guy that would Zap anyone everywhere anytime and 2 tanks ( more or less ).

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Canute87 (Oct 23, 2021)

Fel1x said:


> so after all this feats are you still positive RT5 can't defeat C3?


Not a doubt in my mind.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 1


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## Mihawk (Oct 23, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> People tend to forget to cooperation factor. The RT5 have chemistry of an extreme level. We're talking about a team that consists of (probably ) 2 cocoa users, one low top tier, one borderline top tier, a guy that would Zap anyone everywhere anytime and 2 tanks ( more or less ).



They have good synergy.

But chemistry takes time to build organically. You look at the RT5, they came together pretty nicely _despite _their relative lack of time together. I think it's interesting to note that the Rooftop fight was actually the first time all 5 of them actually fought as one unit.

Sure, you have Luffy and Zoro whom have fought together as a duo or just have great chemistry. Same thing with Kidd and Killer. But what about their form and chemistry as an actual 5 man unit? It's pretty great for a group that hasn't actually come together.

Just think the C3 should have even better chemistry than that just because of their synergy, time and experience, as well as knowledge of each other's abilities and how to mesh them. The moment they brushed off Whitebeard's Gura quake as a Trio with their Haki, kinda highlights their effortless synergy as a unit.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## TheOmega (Oct 23, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> People tend to forget to cooperation factor. The RT5 have chemistry of an extreme level. We're talking about a team that consists of (probably ) 2 cocoa users, one low top tier, one borderline top tier, a guy that would Zap anyone everywhere anytime and 2 tanks ( more or less ).


They got more synergy than a literal military unit? 

Admirals can literally AoE nuke the fuck out the field without fear of collateral damage

How many warps you think law got in the pocket before the 10day fighters wipe out his stamina?

I'll be the first to tell ya'll Yonko > Admirals but that doesn't mean the Admirals are a fuckin joke

Each Admiral > each RT Rookie

Remember Kizaru literally moves at Lightspeed. What is Law's warping gonna do for him?

Reactions: Agree 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Canute87 (Oct 23, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> They have good synergy.
> 
> But chemistry takes time to build organically. You look at the RT5, they came together pretty nicely _despite _their relative lack of time together. I think it's interesting to note that the Rooftop fight was actually the first time all 5 of them actually fought as one unit.
> 
> ...


the C3 are also nothing like Kaido and Big Mom.  They are going to go for the kill as quickly as possible.

There's no possible way oda can make this fight believable in the RT5 favor with how he set the admirals up as characters.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Duhul10 (Oct 23, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> They have good synergy.
> 
> But chemistry takes time to build organically. You look at the RT5, they came together pretty nicely _despite _their relative lack of time together. I think it's interesting to note that the Rooftop fight was actually the first time all 5 of them actually fought as one unit.
> 
> ...


Thing is, if Luffy actually somehow gets very very close to Kaido's strength, the admirals are done for, cause it would mean luffy at the very least stalemates one. Then we have 4 vs 2 and Law zapping people like Zoro means a lot of trouble. Kidd's about to show something big I believe as well.
By the end of Wano, only the admiral fanbase will still believe the C3 beats a team like that.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Mihawk (Oct 23, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Thing is, if Luffy actually somehow gets very very close to Kaido's strength, the admirals are done for, cause it would mean luffy at the very least stalemates one. Then we have 4 vs 2 and Law zapping people like Zoro means a lot of trouble. Kidd's about to show something big I believe as well.
> By the end of Wano, only the admiral fanbase will still believe the C3 beats a team like that.



Yeah that's taking into consideration if Kidd and Law get massive power ups from where they currently are. Meanwhile, Zoro is getting pushed hard by King as I previously stated. 

Again, this is Current RT5. They are a constantly evolving group, so of course the discussion may change a bit by the end of the arc.

C3 still washes them at the current moment though. Leaving a 4v2 or a 1v2 + 1v2 while Luffy stalemates the other one, still means the Novas get beat. Law and Zoro aren't taking down one of them, and neither is Kidd/Killer. 3v5 C3 would fuck them up worst.

Next arc...maybe.

Reactions: Neutral 1


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## Duhul10 (Oct 23, 2021)

TheOmega said:


> They got more synergy than a literal military unit?
> 
> Admirals can literally AoE nuke the fuck out the field without fear of collateral damage
> 
> ...


AoE doesn't mean sh*t. Current OP's all about haki and stats. 
Have the admirals fought together in a battle before ? as we have no info of that. Why would they have more sinergy ? They may, but I'll agree with that when I'll see it.
Having the RT5 above the C3 doesn't mean the admirals are a joke at all.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 2


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## Mihawk (Oct 23, 2021)

Tl;DR.

As they were on the Rooftop, RT5 would've lost to 2 Yonko.

Current RT5 would still lose to the C3 (especially if they got a bit better since MF).

End of Wano/Pre-Elbaf RT5 _may _be able to win against the C3, or at least push them very far.

But then again, if that were the case, EoW/Pre-Elbaf RT5 should overwhelm the Rocks Duo if we're assuming all these massive power ups to members even outside of Luffy being close to Kaido.

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Bobybobster (Oct 23, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> Tl;DR.
> 
> As they were on the Rooftop, RT5 would've lost to 2 Yonko.
> 
> ...


eow rt5 would win, if we are to assume kidd/law can take out meme. Leaving luffy/zoro/killer to beat kaido, which they would win with at most high diff and then help out kidd/law. But I still don't see them taking out 3 top tiers, yonko or admiral.


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## TheOmega (Oct 23, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> AoE doesn't mean sh*t. Current OP's all about haki and stats.
> Have the admirals fought together in a battle before ? as we have no info of that. Why would they have more sinergy ? They may, but I'll agree with that when I'll see it.
> Having the RT5 above the C3 doesn't mean the admirals are a joke at all.


Bruh none of the RT5 are Admiral level. Each of the 3 Admirals clearly are.

Current OP is all about Haki? The Admirals showed us Advanced CoA before the fuckin timeskip brodie. The same CoA that only Luffy has shown for the RT5 side

Have the Admirals fought together before? deadass? "The Marines Strongest Force" Have they fought together?  They fought together in Marineford and fought each other in Punk Hazard

Why would they have more synergy? They're all Logias who can blast the battlefield without concern for collateral damage and they have been fully informed on their capabilities and personalities and have full trust in each other since they are all on the same team with the same goal

AoE is nothing? Only Luffy can fly. Where are these rookies gonna go once the whole battlefield is nuked to death?

Lava, Ice, Light nukes. Where the fuck are the RT5 gonna hide? How are they gonna catch the Admirals? How are they gonna hurt them?

You can't have the RT5 above the C3 for the same reason you can't have the Admirals above the Yonko. Simple as that


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## A Optimistic (Oct 23, 2021)

Who remembers when a lot of OL posters thought that Akainu alone could beat the Rooftop 5?  

What awful powerscaling.

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## TheOmega (Oct 23, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Who remembers when a lot of OL posters thought that Akainu alone could beat the Rooftop 5?
> 
> What awful powerscaling.



That was always a stupid claim. They would've definitely gangstomped his ass. Even before all the growth on the rooftop

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Mihawk (Oct 23, 2021)

TheOmega said:


> Bruh none of the RT5 are Admiral level. Each of the 3 Admirals clearly are.
> 
> Current OP is all about Haki? The Admirals showed us Advanced CoA before the fuckin timeskip brodie. The same CoA that only Luffy has shown for the RT5 side
> 
> ...



Wow I gotta say I'm shocked you're arguing for the Admirals lmao. 

Are you @TheOmega's brother or evil twin?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## TheOmega (Oct 23, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> Wow I gotta say I'm shocked you're arguing for the Admirals lmao.
> 
> Are you @TheOmega's brother or evil twin?



Bro I like the Admirals but I'm always objective and hate when people be wrong as fuck with their tiers. Yonko are clearly > Admirals so when all the Admiral wankers talk crazy I gotta check em. But that also applies for when people try to downplay them and put weakass RT5 on their level.

The worse wankers are the ones that try to use Marineford WB's/Akainu's performances out of context like if WB wasn't incredibly nerfed.

I'm one of the main ones saying Luffy's gotta fight and beat an Admiral 1v1 before he meets Shanks so I'm definitely not tryna hear no bullshit about some rooftop rookies beating 3 whole Admirals right now. That shit crazy

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## Duhul10 (Oct 23, 2021)

TheOmega said:


> Bruh none of the RT5 are Admiral level. Each of the 3 Admirals clearly are.
> 
> Current OP is all about Haki? The Admirals showed us Advanced CoA before the fuckin timeskip brodie. The same CoA that only Luffy has shown for the RT5 side
> 
> ...


So many rows, so little substance....
No proof for the first sentence
Advanced CoA is basically old news, not to mention that what they've shown was a collective block ( guess you're talking about that part ) so 0 offensive feats...

Where are they gonna hide?   did you seriously ask a stupid question like that? Come on bro... Law had Zoro saved from Hakai, something above and beyond what the admirals have shown

Did you seriously ask how 2 cocoa users will catch the admirals?

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Duhul10 (Oct 23, 2021)

TheOmega said:


> Bro I like the Admirals but I'm always objective and hate when people be wrong as fuck with their tiers. Yonko are clearly > Admirals so when all the Admiral wankers talk crazy I gotta check em. But that also applies for when people try to downplay them and put weakass RT5 on their level.
> 
> The worse wankers are the ones that try to use Marineford WB's/Akainu's performances out of context like if WB wasn't incredibly nerfed.
> 
> I'm one of the main ones saying Luffy's gotta fight and beat an Admiral 1v1 before he meets Shanks so I'm definitely not tryna hear no bullshit about some rooftop rookies beating 3 whole Admirals right now. That shit crazy



It's not as if there are no arguments pro admirals winning, but they aren't as solid as some may think, that's why I'm actually debating against them now. Otherwise, yes, each admiral should still beat each RT fighter ( unless Luffy gets more insane feats )


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## Kamisori (Oct 23, 2021)

Yes. 3 Admirals are too much.

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## A Optimistic (Oct 23, 2021)

Surprised at the posters that think this is a stomp in the C3 favor, OL loves being wrong every week.

 

First of all, current Rooftop 5 is not the same Rooftop 5 that fought the two Yonko on the rooftop. Luffy alone has gone through two power ups since then. So the comparisons about how the Admirals would do better are disingenuous at best because this is a completely different situation.

Second of all, the argument about Admirals spamming AoE and magically stomping the Rooftop 5 is fanfiction at best. Luffy can split the sky at this point, he is more than capable of fighting an Admiral all by himself. That means there are two remaining Admirals to face the remaining Rooftop 4.

In other words, it’s Luffy versus Akainu, Aokiji versus Kidd and Law, and Kizaru versus Zoro and Killer. The C3 aren’t getting a chance to do a coordinated AoE attack. 

Unless anyone has some proof that Aokiji can beat Kidd and Law easily or has proof that Kizaru can beat Zoro and Killer easily, then I’m not sure where this idea that the C3 stomps is coming from.

Reactions: Like 5


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## TheOmega (Oct 23, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> So many rows, so little substance....
> No proof for the first sentence
> Advanced CoA is basically old news, not to mention that what they've shown was a collective block ( guess you're talking about that part ) so 0 offensive feats...
> 
> ...


So you have no rebuttals is what you posted to say

Hakai was aimed in one direction. 

How do the RT5 deal with Aokiji freezing the whole roof while Akainu explodes lava everywhere and Kizaru shoots lasers from above?

Where the fuck are they going?

And lemme flip your logic to you: what attack has the RT5 shown that's on the level of WB's Quake? Cuz that's what the fuck the C3 stopped.

They stopped the quake and were unharmed. RT5 redirected Hakkai and almost fuckin died. That shit ain't the same


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## Fel1x (Oct 23, 2021)

as for me: that definitely wouldn't be a stomp to any favor

some of you are talking about AoE forgetting that this is only anti-fodder thing. have you ever seen admirals defeating someone at YC level by your wannabe stomp-aoe? no. because facing someone strong, admirals tend to use single target attacks

as for admirals having different state of mind than Yonko: cocky bastards didn't even kill pre-ts Luffy when they had a huge fat chance (him trying to attack all of them in MF). 

also: admirals don't even have CoC. let alone CoCoA. 2 Yonko>3 admirals as per canon

so I'm not that sure who's gonna win. for now Admirals probably win extreme diff. but I would like to see more of Kidd+Law vs BM and Zoro vs King first

Reactions: Winner 2 | Dislike 1


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## Duhul10 (Oct 23, 2021)

TheOmega said:


> So you have no rebuttals is what you posted to say
> 
> Hakai was aimed in one direction.
> 
> ...


Why would Sickbeard's Quake ( which was not even one of his strongest attacks and was not even aimed at a specific target ) be better than what the RT5 can produce ( aka attacks that can hurt the WSC ).
Aokiji freezing the roof - irrelevant
Akainu's lava is dodged/ avoided with Law's powers. Old Rusty Rayleigh could manage Kizaru's powers and he hadn't the Luxury of Law's powers.

Let me ask you something else. How are the admirals going to do against Law's powers, Luffy's future sight and the other 3 at the same time?


your main argument is that the admirals are going to nuke the place. They can't even tag the RT5 with those fodder control aoe attacks, wtf.


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## Duhul10 (Oct 23, 2021)

Fel1x said:


> as for me: that definitely wouldn't be a stomp to any favor
> 
> some of you are talking about AoE forgetting that this is only anti-fodder thing. have you ever seen admirals defeating someone at YC level by your wannabe stomp-aoe? no. because facing someone strong, admirals tend to use single target attacks
> 
> ...


bolded would make certain people go nuts.


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## Mihawk (Oct 23, 2021)

Fel1x said:


> as for admirals having different state of mind than Yonko: cocky bastards didn't even kill pre-ts Luffy when they had a huge fat chance (him trying to attack all of them in MF).





Duhul10 said:


> bolded would make certain people go nuts.



Not really, he wasn't a threat to them at all in the slightest. He is to them now...and would've been a threat prior to the current power up also.

Do you see Kaido or Big Mom giving a shit about Pre-TS Luffy, who was described as an "ant in a storm"?

Kaido probably wouldn't even care to notice him or put any effort into killing him too because he's so weak.


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## Duhul10 (Oct 23, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> Not really, he wasn't a threat to them at all in the slightest. He is to them now...and would've been a threat prior to the current power up also.
> 
> Do you see Kaido or Big Mom giving a shit about Pre-TS Luffy, who was described as an "ant in a storm"?
> 
> Kaido probably wouldn't even care to notice him or put any effort into killing him too because he's so weak.


The point went past you.
What Felix was saying is that they are maybe just as arrogant when it comes to weaker opponents. As for your point, there is no proof of it. After all, what was the combined kill count of admirals during MF?


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## A Optimistic (Oct 23, 2021)

TheOmega said:


> How do the RT5 deal with Aokiji freezing the whole roof while Akainu explodes lava everywhere and Kizaru shoots lasers from above?



Are the Rooftop 5 taking a nap while the Admirals spam their AoE together or something? Why are you even assuming that the Rooftop 5 would allow the Admirals to do a coordinated AoE attack in the first place? Is it because they allowed the two Yonko to do Hakai?

The only reason the two Yonko were able to do Hakai was because none of the Rooftop 5 were individually strong enough to face one of the Yonko on their own, that isn't the case anymore. If there was a rematch between the Rooftop 5 and the two Yonko right now, Luffy would be able to fight Kaido on his own while the other 4 gang up on Big Mom and destroy her. The two Yonko would never have a chance to even use Hakai against the current Rooftop 5.

So going back to the C3 versus Rooftop 5, if Akainu is fighting Luffy and Aokiji is fighting Kidd/Law and Kizaru is fighting Zoro/Killer, then please explain how this super coordinated AoE Admiral combo attack is happening, because I'm not seeing it.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Fel1x (Oct 23, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> Not really, he wasn't a threat to them at all in the slightest. He is to them now...and would've been a threat prior to the current power up also.
> 
> Do you see Kaido or Big Mom giving a shit about Pre-TS Luffy, who was described as an "ant in a storm"?
> 
> Kaido probably wouldn't even care to notice him or put any effort into killing him too because he's so weak.


Kaido and BM probably even still think they are not a real threat. I think if it was C3 as main Wano antagonists, they would behave almost the same. deep underestimation


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## Grinningfox (Oct 23, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Surprised at the posters that think this is a stomp in the C3 favor, OL loves being wrong every week.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Agreed 

Luffy IC would want Akainu all to himself and has the strength to make it so serious a contest that a coordinated assault likely isn’t happening 

How teams divide determines the rest

Reactions: Agree 2 | Tier Specialist 1 | Dislike 1


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## A Optimistic (Oct 23, 2021)

Mylesime said:


> It's one thing to have the Yonkos above the admirals, but having to face a whole  grown-ass Top Tier more than the team those same rookies were struggling against?
> They get destroyed.
> C3 every day.



They aren't the same rookies that the two Yonko fought lol. You're completely ignoring Luffy's two new powerups?


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## Mylesime (Oct 23, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> They aren't the same rookies that the two Yonko fought lol. You're completely ignoring Luffy's two new powerups?



I'm not, otherwise they would not stand a chance,  it would not even be worth debating.
We've seen how much PIS was needed and how thick their plotshields were to allow their growth.

They had to split the emperors to stand a chance,  Yamato intervened, Zoro was curred .currently they're opposed to other challengers and overall it will still be incredibly difficult.

I don't know if some of you realize how much stronger the C3 are compared to two Yonkous.
I don't care if one thinks that the Yonkos are stronger than the admirals individually,  i tend to agree with that, they're still close individually tough.
Specially Aka inu who became fleet admiral,  and Ao kiji who was on par......
That's almost like facing two Yonkos...... except with another top tier on top of that. This is not close at all.
A solid mid diff.
Basically replacing in the teams King and Hawkins with one of the C3?
Yeah , the outcome seems clear.

But i think our evaluations vary whether or not we think Big Mom is going down.


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## A Optimistic (Oct 23, 2021)

Mylesime said:


> I'm not, otherwise they would not stand a chance,  it would not even be worth debating.
> We've seen how much PIS was need and how thick their plotshields were to allow their growth.
> 
> They had to split the emperors to stand a chance,  Yamato intervened, Zoro was curred .currently they're opposed to other challengers and overall it will still incredibly difficult.
> ...



The current Rooftop 5 wouldn't struggle against the two Yonko if they fought now.

It's Luffy vs Kaido and Big Mom getting destroyed by Kidd/Law/Zoro/Killer.

The problem is you thinking that somehow those two Yonko can make the current Rooftop 5 sweat and therefore somehow think that 3 Admirals will even do a better job, when in reality the two Yonko aren't making the Rooftop 5 sweat.

Please explain to me what Big Mom is going to do while she's getting jumped by Kidd/Killer/Law/Zoro?

Because sky splitting Luffy is more than capable of holding off Kaido at this point while those four end Big Mom's pirate career once and for all.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Mylesime (Oct 23, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> The current Rooftop 5 wouldn't struggle against the two Yonko if they fought now.
> 
> It's Luffy vs Kaido and Big Mom getting destroyed by Kidd/Law/Zoro/Killer.
> 
> ...



Hold on.
You're neglecting the part where Zoro was cured and Luffy allowed to recover while Yamato took his place.

You're also neglecting that overall in terms of military might those two teams aren't close at all:
Team A: The C3
Team B: Kaido, Big Mom, King, Hawkins

And i disagree the R5 would still struggle.
They just can win now potentially,  while Plotshield is the only reason they all survived in the storyline.


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## A Optimistic (Oct 23, 2021)

Mylesime said:


> Hold on.
> You're neglecting the part where Zoro was cured and Luffy allowed to recover while Yamato took his place.



Hmm?

I know Yamato has done her part in wounding and tiring out her father. I'm not even saying current Luffy is capable of defeating a 100% fresh Kaido on his own, all I'm saying is that Luffy is capable of keeping Kaido fully occupied while the other 4 defeat Big Mom. Then all 5 of them can jump Kaido afterwards.

I honestly do believe a fresh current Rooftop 5 would defeat a fresh Kaido and Big Mom without too much issue if they had a rematch right now and if they follow my strategy of Luffy stalling Kaido while the other 4 jump Big Mom. Big Mom can't even keep a wounded Law and Kidd down so she has no chance against Kidd/Law/Killer/Zoro. Then all 5 of them jump Kaido afterwards and it's a happy ending.

So going back to Rooftop 5 versus C3, it's Luffy versus Akainu with Aokiji fighting Kidd/Law and Kizaru fighting Zoro/Killer. Has Aokiji or Kizaru shown anything to indicate that they can defeat two members of the Rooftop 5 on their own quickly? Because they have to do that in order for the C3 to somehow stomp in this thread like a lot of people think.

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## Mylesime (Oct 23, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Hmm?
> 
> I know Yamato has done her part in wounding and tiring out her father. I'm not even saying current Luffy is capable of defeating a 100% fresh Kaido on his own, all I'm saying is that Luffy is capable of keeping Kaido fully occupied while the other 4 defeat Big Mom. Then all 5 of them can jump Kaido afterwards.
> 
> ...



First of all ,I don't see a stomp, just a decisive victory.
Mid diff.

Secondly, you're ignoring that Luffy could not stall Kaido, hence why i talked about Yamato, he was Knocked down.
In a 2 VS 5 Kaido comes to help Big Mom and it's then a 2 vs 4 with the franchise player of the SNs out.
And no i don't see Big Mom falling before Kaido knocking down Luffy.

Then once again, you're ignoring the cure. Without external intervention Zoro is out in the storyline after having saved the others and injured Kaido.
Even if we take them fresh, you can clearly see that in your evaluation of their performances you're ignoring how much the Yonkos damaged the team in the storyline, before and after power ups....

And how much Kaido mainly was nerfed by plot.

And finally Big Mom is yet to receive a single significant injury.
I think that part of the problem is that i don't see Big Mom falling at all. Not after witnessing what it will ultimately take to defeat Kaido.
And i think that the C3 is considerably stronger than the Yonkous duo, significantly.
If Big Mom +  Kaido represent 100%
I'd rate the C3 easily at 140%.
I rate the R5 lower than you, and the Yonkos and C3 higher.


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## A Optimistic (Oct 23, 2021)

Mylesime said:


> First of all ,I don't see a stomp, just a decisive victory.
> Mid diff.
> 
> Secondly, you're ignoring that Luffy could not stall Kaido, hence why i talked about Yamato, he was Knocked down.



That wasn't current Luffy though. The Luffy that just split the sky with Kaido is different from the Luffy that Kaido defeated earlier. I don't understand why you're bringing up a weaker version of Luffy?

 




Mylesime said:


> In a 2 VS 5 Kaido comes helping Big Mom and it's then a 2 vs 4 with the franchise player of the SNs out.
> 
> Then once again, you're ignoring the cure. Without external intervention Zoro is out in the storyline after having saved the others and injured Kaido.
> Even if we take them fresh, you can clearly see that in your evaluation of their performances you're ignoring how much the Yonkos damaged the team in the storyline, before and after power ups....



I'm also confused what Zoro's cure has to do with anything in this thread. Zoro is starting this hypothetical fight with 100% full health.

I'm not trying to purposely ignore any of your points, but I think we're misunderstanding each other. So before we can continue this debate, let's first make sure we're both on the same page.

I'm saying if a sky splitting Luffy at 100% full health along with the Rooftop 4 at full health had a rematch against the two Yonko at full health, they would win without too much trouble. So I am a bit confused what Yamato and Zoro's cure have to do with it.

Please explain.




Mylesime said:


> And that was nerfed by plot.
> 
> And finally Big Mom is yet to receive a significant injury.
> I think that part of the problem is that i don't see Big Mom falling at all.
> And i think that the C3 is considerably stronger than the Yonkous duo, significantly.



Big Mom hasn't received any injuries due to Hawkins constantly interfering, that's about to change shortly. Big Mom has no chance against a fresh Kidd/Law/Killer/Zoro.

Reactions: Like 1


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## A Optimistic (Oct 23, 2021)

Oh you're saying the Yonko are going to injure and take out Zoro with hakai? Because I disagree.

If Kaido is fully occupied with Luffy, and the other 4 are beating up Mom, then what opportunity will the two Yonko have to do hakai? @Mylesime


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## Mylesime (Oct 23, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> That wasn't current Luffy though. The Luffy that just split the sky with Kaido is different from the Luffy that Kaido defeated earlier. I don't understand why you're bringing up a weaker version of Luffy?



We disagree. For me Luffy was always able to split the sky as soon as he awakened Adv CoC. Hence why he was able to stall Kaido for dozens of minutes before falling off the island. His performance was just off paneled



A Optimistic said:


> I'm also confused what Zoro's cure has to do with anything in this thread. Zoro is starting this hypothetical fight with 100% full health.
> 
> I'm not trying to purposely ignore any of your points, but I think we're misunderstanding each other. So before we can continue this debate, let's first make sure we're both on the same page.
> 
> ...



Yeah and i find that approach flawed, since it ignores all the damages inflicted by the emperors, and the fact that their power ups don't automatically invalidate the efficiency showcased by the Yonkos.



A Optimistic said:


> Big Mom hasn't received any injuries due to Hawkins constantly interfering, that's about to change shortly. Big Mom has no chance against a fresh Kidd/Law/Killer/Zoro.



Case in point. Killer for example is still unable to seriously hurt them.
If they're all fresh, i don't think that Kidd/Killer/Law/Zoro could finish off Big Mom  before Kaido knocks down Luffy.
Hakai is still a crazy attack, etc.

I think you're underestimating the Yonkos, Kaido hasn't shown everything,  100% he's got awakening. And Big Mom is comparable to that Kaido.
The 3 admirals are even stronger as a unit.
It's a testament to the strength of the SNs and to their growth that i think it would be a mid diff.
Without plotshield they would have been  low diffed by Kaido and Mama in the storyline.


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## A Optimistic (Oct 23, 2021)

Mylesime said:


> We disagree. For me Luffy was always able to split the sky as soon as he awakened Adv CoC. Hence why he was able to stall Kaido for dozens of minutes before falling off the island. His performance was just off paneled



I don't think we can continue this debate if we don't agree on Luffy's current strength. Luffy is the star player of team Rooftop 5, so if we don't have a clear consensus on his strength, then we can't really debate on anything involving this topic in my opinion. 

In my opinion, Luffy only became capable of sky splitting after his most recent ass kicking, you disagree. So yeah, we can't really proceed any further if we don't agree on this very first point.


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## ShadoLord (Oct 23, 2021)

Not yet. The RT5 isn't there yet. They have to prove themselves by winning against Kaido and BM before trying the Admirals.


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## Mylesime (Oct 23, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> I don't think we can continue this debate if we don't agree on Luffy's current strength. Luffy is the star player of team Rooftop 5, so if we don't have a clear consensus on his strength, then we can't really debate on anything involving this topic in my opinion.
> 
> In my opinion, Luffy only became capable of sky splitting after his most recent ass kicking, you disagree. So yeah, we can't really proceed any further if we don't agree on this very first point.



Yeah, Let's agree to disagree. 
I think Luffy powered up after awakening adv CoC,not after climbing back with Momo.
We clearly don't evaluate those characters the same way.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Baroxio (Oct 23, 2021)

Luffy split the sky and is about to beat a Yonko - one who isn't a half-dead geriatric barely off life support with a punctured lung. Whitebeard could barely even use Haki, yet he still managed to put the strongest Admiral down.

I have no doubt that Luffy with advanced CoC has definitely surpassed Admiral level. The question is everyone else. Law and Kidd are basically holding off another Yonko in Big Mom, but...let's just say that circumstances are ffy at best. Still, if they can hold off a Yonko, they can probably hold off an Admiral.

That just leaves Zoro and Killer. While Zoro has a very good showing against Issho, I still don't really rate Killer all that highly. At most, he'd be able to provide a quick distraction for Zoro, but that's being generous. Still, Zoro at least is quite the tank, so hopefully he should be able to stave off defeat long enough for Luffy to win and come help him out.

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Oda Report (Oct 23, 2021)

who is the C3?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TheOmega (Oct 23, 2021)

Mylesime said:


> I'm not, otherwise they would not stand a chance,  it would not even be worth debating.
> We've seen how much PIS was needed and how thick their plotshields were to allow their growth.
> 
> They had to split the emperors to stand a chance,  Yamato intervened, Zoro was curred .currently they're opposed to other challengers and overall it will still be incredibly difficult.
> ...


I don't think 3 Admirals can beat 2 Yonko, that's crazy.

But the RT5 definitely can't beat neither 2 Yonko nor 3 Admirals


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## Grinningfox (Oct 23, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> who is the C3?


Color Trio

Kizaru,Aokiji , and Akainu.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Oda Report (Oct 23, 2021)

Oh snap they get rocked.

Rooftop Level was impressive, however it was not enough to best the greatest fighting force of the WG.


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## A Optimistic (Oct 23, 2021)

A fourth Admiral needs to be added if you guys want the Rooftop 5 to lose.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## featherine augustus (Oct 23, 2021)

Current luffy gives a good fight to any admiral  -- High diff ( Maybe higher post wano)

If zoro masters adv coc then he with kidd can also give a good fight against an admiral + Law teleporting away

But for now kidd/law/killer are lacking and zoro without adv coc will get midd high diffed by akainu or aokiji


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## Oda Report (Oct 23, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> A fourth Admiral needs to be added if you guys want the Rooftop 5 to lose.



RT5 top feats are what?

All AD CoC base?

and Luffy's clash vs kaidou splitting the sky eh? Zoro permanently damaging kaidou and dragon blaze?

Well 2 out of the OG Admirals clash was able to permanently change the environment of an island, while we are getting happy about clearing skys.....


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## A Optimistic (Oct 23, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> RT5 top feats are what?
> 
> All AD CoC base?
> 
> ...



The second Luffy split the sky, he became a Yonko and is now capable of fighting anyone on his own without help.

So it's Akainu versus Luffy

Aokiji vs Kidd/Law

Kizaru vs Zoro/Killer


Has Aokiji or Kizaru shown anything to indicate they can defeat their two opponents?


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## Kamisori (Oct 23, 2021)

Kid is distracted: Big Mom fails to beat him

Jozu is distracted: Aokiji beats him instantly

levels

Reactions: Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## El Hit (Oct 23, 2021)

@Fel1x wtf dude you are gonna make me stand the yonko to defend the color trio

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Oda Report (Oct 23, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> The second Luffy split the sky, he became a Yonko and is now capable of fighting anyone on his own without help.



I'd have to disagree here, that would depend on who Luffy is fighting. 



A Optimistic said:


> So it's Akainu versus Luffy



Ah of course. 

Luffy will needs Laws help here, Red Dog is a man who would have found the One Piece in a year, already took on a Yonkou before RT5 was a thing. Whom's powers are well beyond just clearing a sky the dude alters half the environment of an island. Has a lot more stamina then Luffy alone. Luffy gonna need help Laws help. 



A Optimistic said:


> Aokiji vs Kidd/Law



Ice Age Kid and Law will be too distracted trying to help Luffy which either Aokiji could just twitch freeze or spear. 



A Optimistic said:


> Kizaru vs Zoro/Killer



Killer and Zoro put up a great duo fight but killer gets beamed or kicked into next week, Aokiji joins and help Yellow with Zoro.



A Optimistic said:


> Has Aokiji or Kizaru shown anything to indicate they can defeat their two opponents?



Aokiji would have taken care of Doffy for Law if he got cute. 

Yellow has enough in move set alone to take killer. He beat killer in speed and power.


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## trance (Oct 23, 2021)

2 admirals would lose but 3 is too much

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Mihawk (Oct 23, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> The point went past you.
> What Felix was saying is that they are maybe just as arrogant when it comes to weaker opponents. As for your point, there is no proof of it. After all, what was the combined kill count of admirals during MF?


I know what he was saying lol. He was talking about their cockiness and underestimating an opponent.

My point went past you that Rooftop Luffy>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>MF Luffy.

What do you mean proof? why do I need proof of anything? What am I claiming here exactly?

Why does a kill count even matter in One Piece and how is it relevant here?


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## convict (Oct 23, 2021)

Currently C3 wins.

In 20 chapters R5 has a good chance to win.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## A Optimistic (Oct 23, 2021)

@Fel1x 

can you add a public poll?



Oda Report said:


> Luffy will needs Laws help here, Red Dog is a man who would have found the One Piece in a year, already took on a Yonkou before RT5 was a thing. Whom's powers are well beyond just clearing a sky the dude alters half the environment of an island. Has a lot more stamina then Luffy alone. Luffy gonna need help Laws help.



why does a yonko need help fighting anyone exactly?  

luffy is more than capable of fighting anyone at this point while the other rooftop 4 jump the rest 

we cant even begin to discuss the other match ups if we disagree on luffy's strength unfortunately, because how we matched up the characters looks very different

if a tired kaido manages to defeat a sky splitting luffy in a 1v1, then my posts in this thread will age badly

 

but i got faith that luffy isnt getting his ass kicked again

Reactions: Useful 1


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## B Rabbit (Oct 23, 2021)

Ask me again once Luffy, Law , and Kidd get their moments.

Reactions: Like 1


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## FakeTaxi1738 (Oct 23, 2021)

*RT5  litteraly can't  beat 2 top tier *


Fel1x: can RT5 beat 3 top tier ?  

**


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## A Optimistic (Oct 23, 2021)

B Rabbit said:


> Ask me again once Luffy, Law , and Kidd get their moments.



have faith brother  

bet on the new generation!


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## B Rabbit (Oct 23, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> have faith brother
> 
> bet on the new generation!


I am.

That's why I am hedging my bets.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## El Hit (Oct 23, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> have faith brother
> 
> bet on the new generation!





B Rabbit said:


> I am.
> 
> That's why I am hedging my bets.


Bet your arms or It means nothing

Reactions: Funny 1


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## B Rabbit (Oct 23, 2021)

El Hit said:


> Bet your arms or It means nothing


I'll bet my arm on the new generation.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## TheWiggian (Oct 23, 2021)

A single admiral can potentially solo

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1 | Disagree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Fel1x (Oct 23, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> @Fel1x
> 
> can you add a public poll?
> 
> ...


added


FakeTaxi1738 said:


> *RT5  litteraly can't  beat 2 top tier *
> 
> 
> Fel1x: can RT5 beat 3 top tier ?
> ...


there is a visible gap between top tiers. especially if we are talking about admirals and yonko
so if RT5 can't defeat 2 strongest current people (Kaido and BM), it doesn't mean they can't defeat low-mid level top tiers like admirals

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## rext1 (Oct 23, 2021)

C3 stomps!!

Luffy just reached Yonko level in Wano - it will be a few more arcs till he reaches Admiral level.

Yonko perform neat lil party tricks like splitting the skies. Serious Admirals fundamentally alter atmosphere and climate of the Environment.(Probably time/space and reality warping as well)

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 3 | Disagree 2 | Tier Specialist 3


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## Oda Report (Oct 23, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> @Fel1x
> 
> can you add a public poll?
> 
> ...



Ask Kaidou.   



A Optimistic said:


> luffy is more than capable of fighting anyone at this point while the other rooftop 4 jump the rest



I gotta see more from Luffy then just the Ad.CoC clash to say that honestly. 



A Optimistic said:


> we cant even begin to discuss the other match ups if we disagree on luffy's strength unfortunately, because how we matched up the characters looks very different



Yeah we will see in the upcoming chapters.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Breadman (Oct 23, 2021)

Vengarl said:


> Luffy, Zoro and Kid by themselves could take on the C3, with Killer and Laws support it's no contest. *Remember these guys were taking on 2 Yonko, not just Kaido.*



If by taking on 2 Yonko you mean almost getting folded by 2 Yonko, then yes, yes indeed.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1


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## Breadman (Oct 23, 2021)

>Akainu gets attacked by two YC's with haki attacks while he's distracted at MF.

Akainu: Lol, Haki sure is annoying. 

>High tier YCs Jozu and Marco are distracted for a SECOND and are INSTANTLY taken out of the fight by a single attack from Kizaru and Aokiji respectively.

But sure guys, Rooftop 5 got this.

Reactions: Winner 5


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## Piecesis (Oct 23, 2021)

I don't think RT5 are taking two Yonkou or C3 simply because despite all these powerups luffy is fighting a kaido that has gone through a big gaunlet. He hasn't been 100% for the longest time. I don't see a fresh current luffy tangoing with fresh kaido and he'd help BM straight away if he's smart.

Also Akainu is getting spanked by fresh kaido. a dying Wb floored akainu. And I don't see a healthy old wb taking kaido, a dying wb gets mid diffed.

Reactions: Like 2


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## A Optimistic (Oct 24, 2021)

Breadman said:


> >Akainu gets attacked by two YC's with haki attacks while he's distracted at MF.
> 
> Akainu: Lol, Haki sure is annoying.



Why is this relevant? What YC fighter is Akainu facing in this match? Akainu is obviously facing Luffy, they got major beef.

It's Aokiji and Kizaru who are facing the YC fighters in this fight. And last time I checked, Marco and Jozu had no problem getting past Aokiji or Kizaru's intangibility. Interesting that you left that part out of your post though. I can't blame you though, you got no choice but to cherry-pick feats when you're defending the underdogs in this thread.





Breadman said:


> >High tier YCs Jozu and Marco are distracted for a SECOND and are INSTANTLY taken out of the fight by a single attack from Kizaru and Aokiji respectively.



There's a lot to unpack in this statement. 

First of all, Kizaru never instantly took out Marco with a single attack on his own. Whitebeard had a heart attack, Marco ran to go protect his daddy, then Kizaru shot two lasers through him, then Onigumo put seastone cuffs on Marco, then Kizaru shot Marco with another 2 lasers. And then the seastone cuffs were removed and Marco was perfectly fine afterwards.

So not only did Kizaru not take Marco out of the fight with a _single_ attack (since when is 4 lasers a single attack?), but Kizaru had outside help, and Marco wasn't taken out of the fight and joined the war later on. Will Onigumo and his seastone cuffs be participating in this thread? Didn't see that in the opening post.

And second of all, why is Marco and Jozu getting distracted relevant to this match up? Is someone that Zoro/Law/Kidd/Killer love going to have a heart attack in the middle of the match that is going to force them to be distracted? Why would Zoro/Law/Kidd/Killer be distracted in this match up when they outnumber Kizaru/Aokiji 2 to 1?

So yeah, your points aren't relevant. How about you tell me exactly how Aokiji is going to defeat Kidd/Law at the same time and how Kizaru is going to beat Zoro/Killer at the same time? Tell me exactly what attack they are going to use. Without bringing up distractions and Onigumo because neither of those are relevant in this fight.



Breadman said:


> But sure guys, Rooftop 5 got this.



That's correct. Doesn't matter whether it's the Color Trio or Kaido/Big Mom, the outcome is the same. The R5 stay winning. Bring some tougher opponents next time if you want to see the R5 lose.


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## Breadman (Oct 24, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Why is this relevant? What YC fighter is Akainu facing in this match? Akainu is obviously facing Luffy, they got major beef.
> 
> It's Aokiji and Kizaru who are facing the YC fighters in this fight. And last time I checked, Marco and Jozu had no problem getting past Aokiji or Kizaru's intangibility. Interesting that you left that part out of your post though. I can't blame you though, you got no choice but to cherry-pick feats when you're defending the underdogs in this thread.
> 
> ...



I love how you HAVE to make Akainu fight Luffy in a 1v1 when this is supposed to be the 3 Admirals vs the Rooftop5 in a team fight because you KNOW that Akainu would make Kidd and Killer instantly useless since he'd melt their metal/weapons. 

The reason I bring up the distractions is because the R5 are filled to the brim with a bunch of dumbasses who argue with each other and don't pay attention to the enemy in front of them. That might fly when fighting a pair of incompetent and arrogant Yonko, but not against the Admirals who always go for the kill. 

Kizaru moves at the speed of light. Aokiji freezes tidal waves just by blinking. Kidd just throws a bunch of scrap metal around that they can phase through hand Killer just has scythe hands. At least Jozu can make himself invincible and Marco has flight, high maneuverability and auto-regen that lets him get bombarded by Kizaru and still keep on going.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Incognitos (Oct 24, 2021)

At the end of this arc I can maybe see them doing it depending on if Kidd and law advance to admiral level against big Mom. Right now they can't. Luffy and killer could probably take down kizaru, law and Kidd could probably take down aokiji rn but Akainu is too much. Switch Akainu with fugitora and they have a shot. 

Luffy is admiral level but can't beat any of the c3, he can beat fugitora imo.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Baroxio (Oct 24, 2021)

rext1 said:


> Luffy just reached Yonko level in Wano - it will be a few more arcs till he reaches Admiral level.


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## A Optimistic (Oct 24, 2021)

Breadman said:


> I love how you HAVE to make Akainu fight Luffy in a 1v1 when this is supposed to be the 3 Admirals vs the Rooftop5 in a team fight




I had a bit of a suspicion that you haven't read One Piece when I read your last reply and you started blatantly lying by claiming that Kizaru instantly took out Marco with a single attack, but now I'm 100% confident that you've never read this manga before.

What do you mean I _have_ to make Akainu fight Luffy?  Do you even know who Akainu and Luffy are? Are you not aware that Akainu literally killed Luffy's brother? Are you not aware that Akainu wanted to kill Luffy so badly that he was fine with every other pirate escaping but Luffy and Ace? Are you not aware that Luffy hates Akainu so much that he literally grabbed his scar at the mere mention of Akainu's name? Are you not aware that Akainu is the only villain who made Luffy consider ending his dream of becoming the Pirate King? Are you not aware that Luffy instantly went berserk and tried fighting Blackbeard for simply _capturing_ Ace? What do you think Luffy is going to do if he sees the man who _killed_ Ace?

If Akainu and Luffy ever make eye contact, they are 100% instantly fighting, that's literally not up for discussion. I don't _have_ to make Akainu fight Luffy. They are going to do on their own. We literally got to see Luffy fight Kaido on his own while the other 4 Rooftop fighters teamed up on Big Mom, but somehow the idea of Luffy and Akainu having a 1v1 fight isn't possible in your mind when Luffy and Akainu have way more animosity and hatred for each other than Luffy and Kaido ever will.

That being said, if you don't want Luffy and Akainu to fight, that's perfectly fine. We can go with your suggestion of Akainu fighting Kidd and Killer. I suppose that means it will be Aokiji and Kizaru versus Luffy, Zoro, and Law. I was actually doing you a favour by making Luffy fight Akainu. It's pretty obvious that Luffy is quite stronger then the other members of the Rooftop 5, which means the intelligent thing to do would be to isolate him from the rest of his team and instead focus on picking off the weaker members. But instead you want Luffy to be with Zoro and Law...two people who would attempt to protect Luffy's life the most and both have extremely strong abilities that will be able to protect Luffy if he's ever in trouble.

What a brilliant strategy on your part. You know for someone who loves the Marines so much, you are unable to strategize on their level at all. The Marines have shown constantly throughout the manga that they are capable of coming up with cunning and intelligent plans to weaken their opponents and give themselves the best odds for victory, but you can't even seem to figure out that isolating the only top tier in the Rooftop 5 is the optimal strategy and it gives the Logia Trio the best odds for victory. If you were a Marine, you would unironically never be promoted past the rank of _Chore Boy_, Fleet Admiral Akainu has no need for your poor strategies. I bet if you were in charge of the strategy for attacking Enies Lobbies, you would have sent Sanji to go deal with Rob Lucci instead of Luffy.





Breadman said:


> because you KNOW that Akainu would make Kidd and Killer instantly useless since he'd melt their metal/weapons.




This is what I mean when I say that you've never read the manga before. Akainu was unable to melt Vista's metal weapons but somehow you're blatantly lying by claiming that Akainu would instantly melt Kidd and Killer's weapons. Take a break from trolling and go re-read the entire manga. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Are you incapable of making one post in this thread where you're not blatantly lying?




Breadman said:


> The reason I bring up the distractions is because the R5 are filled to the brim with a bunch of dumbasses who argue with each other and don't pay attention to the enemy in front of them. That might fly when fighting a pair of incompetent and arrogant Yonko,





You're not in any position to be calling the Rooftop 5 a bunch of dumbasses. The Rooftop 5 were smart enough to figure out that isolating the Yonko was the optimal strategy for victory, but you can't even seem to figure out that isolating the only Rooftop 5 top tier with the strongest Admiral is the optimal strategy for the Logia Trio to win.


Also I love how you bring up the Rooftop 5 arguing with each other. The Logia trio also argues with each other, you would know this if you actually read the manga. But I know that you haven't read the manga so let me show you:




And here's a panel of Akainu criticizing a decision that Aokiji/Kizaru made:






But somehow you're acting like the Admirals are above bickering or shit talking each other in the middle of the fight? Nice fanfiction. You're trying to portray the Admirals like their some anti-social robots or something, I think you're confusing them with the Pacifista or something. Newsflash, the Admirals will bicker with each other, the Admirals will shit talk and flame the Rooftop 5, the Admirals will show concern for each other if one of them is ever in trouble. You do realize that's perfectly normal behaviour for comrades to do in a group fight right?  Look at you being dishonest and trying to act like the Admirals are above such behaviour. There's literally nothing wrong with bickering with your teammates or showing concern with your teammates or talking shit. That does not mean that _any_ side is catching someone off guard and one shotting them, that's not happening to the Rooftop 5 and that's not happening to the Logia Trio either. What happened to Marco and Jozu was a unique situation due to Whitebeard having heart attacks in the middle of the fight, you don't have a shred of evidence to prove that's going to happen in this fight. You don't even have any evidence that the Admirals won't bicker with each other in the middle of the fight.

The fact that you keep trying to reach for the distraction card shows just how desperate you are. If you were confident in the Admiral's strength, then you would just say that they win with their own strength. But yet you keep running back to the distraction card. If you're going to defend the Admirals, then at least stand tall with them and be confident that they can win without any distractions. Have some pride and faith in the people that you're actually defending. Akainu would magmafist you for your lack of confidence and courage.





Breadman said:


> That might fly when fighting a pair of incompetent and arrogant Yonko, but not against the Admirals who always go for the kill.



Admirals always go for the kill huh?

So did I imagine Aokiji stabbing Luffy in the shoulder and then talking about Luffy's grandfather? Did I imagine all three of the Logia Trio standing around watching Luffy attempt to punch them? Did I imagine Kizaru kicking Luffy multiple times throughout the war? Did I imagine Kizaru not killing a single Supernova during the SA arc? Did I imagine Aokiji not killing a single Straw Hat during the Foxy arc? Did I imagine Kizaru choosing to shoot Luffy's key instead of Luffy himself? Did I imagine Kizaru not shoot Oars Jr. in the head? Did I imagine Sengoku attempting to punch both Luffy and Ace and both of them surviving? Did I imagine Akainu choosing to punch Whitebeard in the chest while he was having a heart attack instead of killing Whitebeard?

Why are you constantly lying in your posts? You need to stop lying and you need to go re-read the manga.




Breadman said:


> Kizaru moves at the speed of light.



Did moving at light speed help Kizaru when he tried getting past Rayleigh?

Did moving at light speed help Kizaru when he tried attacking Whitebeard and Marco intercepted his attack?

No.

Try bringing up something relevant next time.



Breadman said:


> Aokiji freezes tidal waves just by blinking.




Is there someone called Tidal Wave among the Rooftop 5? I don't recall anyone with that name. Not sure why this is relevant. Was Aokiji able to freeze Jozu before he got distracted?

No.

Try bringing up something relevant next time.





Breadman said:


> Kidd just throws a bunch of scrap metal around that they can phase through hand Killer just has scythe hands. At least Jozu can make himself invincible and Marco has flight, high maneuverability and auto-regen that lets him get bombarded by Kizaru and still keep on going.



Ah yes, when all your other awful arguments fail, now you try to imply that Kidd and Killer are weaker than Marco and Jozu.

Sorry to disappoint you, but Marco is a YC1 and Kidd is a YC1. Jozu is a YC2 and Killer is a YC2. The Rooftop 5 consists of 1 top tier, 3 YC1s, and 1 YC2.

I understand Wano has been shattering everyone's tier list but you need to get over your Rooftop 5 underestimation. There's no way a team consisting of 1 top tier, 3 YC1s and 1 YC2 is losing to the logia trio. And you better pray that Oda doesn't give Kidd, Law, and Zoro a new power up before this arc ends.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Informative 1


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Oct 24, 2021)

Pashanim said:


> Kid is distracted: Big Mom fails to beat him
> 
> Jozu is distracted: Aokiji beats him instantly
> 
> levels


There’s a point here just not the one you think you’re making

Reactions: Agree 1


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## arv993 (Oct 24, 2021)

Extreme diff either way, if kid and law beat BM. They will beat aokiji more easily. luffy takes on akainu it’s extreme diff either way, depends on how his battle with kaido goes. Kizaru vs killer and Zoro also goes extreme. Zoro is approximately Marcos level and killer is a yc2 so it’s a toss up.


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## Vengarl (Oct 24, 2021)

FakeTaxi1738 said:


> *RT5  litteraly can't  beat 2 top tier *
> 
> 
> Fel1x: can RT5 beat 3 top tier ?
> ...


R5 can't beat 2 top tier and yet 3/5 are geared to defeat them by the end of the arc.


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## Yumi Zoro (Oct 25, 2021)

POST WANO RT5 will have 3 legit top tier and an yfm +yc1 they definitely win at that poing.


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## Breadman (Oct 25, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> I had a bit of a suspicion that you haven't read One Piece when I read your last reply and you started blatantly lying by claiming that Kizaru instantly took out Marco with a single attack, but now I'm 100% confident that you've never read this manga before.
> 
> What do you mean I _have_ to make Akainu fight Luffy?  Do you even know who Akainu and Luffy are? Are you not aware that Akainu literally killed Luffy's brother? Are you not aware that Akainu wanted to kill Luffy so badly that he was fine with every other pirate escaping but Luffy and Ace? Are you not aware that Luffy hates Akainu so much that he literally grabbed his scar at the mere mention of Akainu's name? Are you not aware that Akainu is the only villain who made Luffy consider ending his dream of becoming the Pirate King? Are you not aware that Luffy instantly went berserk and tried fighting Blackbeard for simply _capturing_ Ace? What do you think Luffy is going to do if he sees the man who _killed_ Ace?
> 
> ...



Hey king, I just wanna say

I appreciate you

......

But I aint bothering reading all of that over a post about fictional bendy and elemental men.   

Admiralbros got this.

Reactions: Funny 5 | Friendly 1


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## Tenma (Oct 25, 2021)

If the rooftop fight demonstrated anything it's that AoE spamming is largely ineffective in dealing with competent opponents. This is coming down to blades and fists.

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## Nox (Oct 25, 2021)

Tenma said:


> If the rooftop fight demonstrated anything it's that AoE spamming is largely ineffective in dealing with competent opponents. This is coming down to blades and fists.



How? When 

- Linlins AoE lightning floors the Supernovas and left only Luffy standing.
- Kaido AoE storm neutralized Supernovas charge and Zoro had to counter with Tatsumaki
- Hakai cornered Supernovas and Zoro had to sacrifised for an opportunity to escape. The combined damage rendered him ineffective after a short push.
- Linlin used an AoE Hera and bombarded Killer and Kid down another level.

Spamming AoE is the fastest way to exhaust the opponent, who expends energy defending. The Supernovas charge the Yonko several times to cease this tactic.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Beast (Oct 25, 2021)

C3> BM and Kaidou> RT5

Unless you mean at the end of wano.

Reactions: Winner 2 | Disagree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Tenma (Oct 25, 2021)

Nox said:


> How? When
> 
> - Linlins AoE lightning floors the Supernovas and left only Luffy standing.
> - Kaido AoE storm neutralized Supernovas charge and Zoro had to counter with Tatsumaki
> ...



Should have clarified, it's good at running interference, hitting many people at once etc but it simply doesn't deal the kind of damage those who suggest the admirals can win because big logia AoE suggest.

Hakai does appear the exception to this, but it_ is_ also essentially a melee/haki technique rather than just DF beamspam.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Duhul10 (Oct 25, 2021)

Tenma said:


> Should have clarified, it's good at running interference, hitting many people at once etc but it simply doesn't deal the kind of damage those who suggest the admirals can win because big logia AoE suggest.
> 
> Hakai does appear the exception to this, but it_ is_ also essentially a melee/haki technique rather than just DF beamspam.


Hakai is the most powerful attack in the verse. It's not just AoE fodder control, people with ridiculous durability ( Luffy, Zoro, Kidd ) would've been turned to atoms.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Beast (Oct 25, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Hakai is the most powerful attack in the verse. It's not just AoE fodder control, people with ridiculous durability ( Luffy, Zoro, Kidd ) would've been turned to atoms.


It really isn’t though… ain’t do shit to no one but Zoro.
How could you just make things up so badly?

why wasn’t Zoro turned to dust on impact?
Or you want us to believe Zoro posses the highest level of defence? Durability and endurance? Hax?

WB holds the greatest strength and power in this verse, go argue with Oda about that.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Duhul10 (Oct 25, 2021)

Beast said:


> It really isn’t though… ain’t do shit to no one but Zoro.
> How could you just make things up so badly?
> 
> why wasn’t Zoro turned to dust on impact?
> ...


Zoro delayed it with his swords for a split second, a split second which broke 20 smth of his bones. None of them could dodge it, none of them could've tanked it. Please stop spreading false information. Nobody could tank that sh*t. I get it that you're a hater, but at least be reasonable, people around here know your views so you've got nobody to impress.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fel1x (Oct 25, 2021)

Sweet Tomato said:


> POST WANO RT5 will have 3 legit top tier and an yfm +yc1 they definitely win at that poing.


lol post Wano RT5 will mid diff C3

Reactions: Optimistic 2


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## Mihawk (Oct 25, 2021)

Beast said:


> C3> BM and Kaidou> RT5
> 
> Unless you mean at the end of wano.



Yes.

You can see it in the other thread. The fact that even somewhat reasonable posters think that 2 Yonko can win against the C3 or require extreme-diff is absolutely preposterous.

The amount of leaps this section continues to make throughout the course of the Wano arc has been asinine. This shit would've been laughed out the site just a couple years ago.

There is not a more dangerous canon trio of fighters than the C3 in this manga. Yeah the Yonko can form a trio or beat them for sure as a quartet, but so far there isn't an established troika in the manga as powerful, and there isn't an established alliance in the story that can pull off beating them. The Rocks Duo are not Whitebeard and Roger. Heck, it's possible they may not even be stronger than a hypothetical duo of Shanks and Blackbeard. Their current feats are impressive, but they are mostly living up to the expectation we've had of them as the first Emperors to be fully showcased by feats.

The downplay of these 3 Admirals continues to be astounding in recent months. I can understand the divide if this was a 2v2 and people believe Kaido and Big Mom > Akainu & Aokiji, based on what they've shown. Yet, even that can be argued to some extent as an extremely difficult fight, let alone thinking they can win against both + Kizaru.

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## arv993 (Oct 25, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> Yes.
> 
> You can see it in the other thread. The fact that even somewhat reasonable posters think that 2 Yonko can win against the C3 or require extreme-diff is absolutely preposterous.
> 
> ...




Kizaru is a low top tier that’s going to get his butt kicked in by someone like Sanji. He couldn’t do jack to Rayleigh who is a geriatric or stop Marco. We are going by feats and he’s a low top tier like his boy fujitora. 

Akainu and aokiji are decisively below big mom and kaido that’s a high diff fight honestly, look at what kaidos done - his feats are much better than Mf akainu.

This is an extreme diff fight. It can go either way.

Current RT5 is OP.

Law and luffy > akainu
Kidd can stall aokiji and is a goddamn tank 
Zoro plus killer ~ kizaru

Law or luffy can come help later. If this is MF akainu, luffy can give high(high) diff by himself since he’s about to beat a stronger character by a good margin in kaido.

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## Beast (Oct 25, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Zoro delayed it with his swords for a split second, a split second which broke 20 smth of his bones. None of them could dodge it, none of them could've tanked it. Please stop spreading false information. Nobody could tank that sh*t. I get it that you're a hater, but at least be reasonable, people around here know your views so you've got nobody to impress.


So… Zoro was able to slow it down, make contact with the attack not be turned into atoms? 
and lol, no need to rude  
The feat itself is pretty cool but for what it is suppose to be and what did show was not all that. WB has shown powers above that.

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## arv993 (Oct 25, 2021)

Beast said:


> So… Zoro was able to slow it down, make contact with the attack not be turned into atoms?
> and lol, no need to rude
> The feat itself is pretty cool but for what it is suppose to be and what did show was not all that. WB has shown powers above that.


Wb’s hit with no haki is not more powerful than hakai, admirals blocked a weaker attack by one yonko with no haki. 

Hakai made Zoro essentially useless and that was a split second, admirals will get pushed back by this attack or take some damage.


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## Duhul10 (Oct 25, 2021)

Beast said:


> So… Zoro was able to slow it down, make contact with the attack not be turned into atoms?
> and lol, no need to rude
> The feat itself is pretty cool but for what it is suppose to be and what did show was not all that. WB has shown powers above that.


Wb's best feat was cracking a part of the small Marineford. Kaido for example gives 50% of Hakai while holding a f*ing island in the air.

Also, again, try to comprehend, ZORO WOULD HAVE BEEN DISINTEGRATED HAD HE STOOD ONE MORE SECOND IN FRONT OF THE ATTACK. Hope I was clear enough


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## Fel1x (Oct 25, 2021)

guys optimisting my post: do you realize it’s 5 vs 3? do you realize Law is world strongest support? do you realize Luffy and Zoro have superior haki?
post Wano RT5 will be able to destroy any 3 top tiers (excluding Yonko, who are visibly above low-mid top tiers called admirals or FMs)

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## Beast (Oct 25, 2021)

arv993 said:


> Wb’s hit with no haki is not more powerful than hakai, admirals blocked a weaker attack by one yonko with no haki.
> 
> Hakai made Zoro essentially useless and that was a split second, admirals will get pushed back by this attack or take some damage.


Nah, that was powerful but I’m sure WB showed more devastating attacks, he had the island and sea tilting like waves. His range could felt through different islands far from MF.

Zoro was able to help with the plan to get big mom off the roof by holding down her fire homie. He was able to put a scar on Kaidou, so he wasn’t exactly useless resigns away, now a top tier with better endurance or durability wouldn’t be in such a condition.


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## arv993 (Oct 25, 2021)

Beast said:


> Nah, that was powerful but I’m sure WB showed more devastating attacks, he had the island and sea tilting like waves. His range could felt through different islands far from MF.
> 
> Zoro was able to help with the plan to get big mom off the roof by holding down her fire homie. He was able to put a scar on Kaidou, so he wasn’t exactly useless resigns away, now a top tier with better endurance or durability wouldn’t be in such a condition.



It has more aoe but way less powerful, Bb can move the island and seas too. It’s what the df does.


Zoro had all his bones broken he wasn’t going to last long and he was there for a second, no one else was even going to attempt and block it. Admirals will get hurt they have no feats to completely block such a fast and powerful attack.


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## Beast (Oct 25, 2021)

arv993 said:


> It has more aoe but way less powerful, Bb can move the island and seas too. It’s what the df does.
> 
> 
> Zoro had all his bones broken he wasn’t going to last long and he was there for a second, no one else was even going to attempt and block it. Admirals will get hurt they have no feats to completely block such a fast and powerful attack.


Yeah not really, the centre point of damage wasn’t dealt to anyone other then Akainu but there is no way you’re going to convince anyone it’s way less powerful when it has better showing. Not his DF makes earthquakes, he earthquakes are apart of his attack, so what you see him do to nature, he can do that damage to single person once he hits.

yeah, I know but Zoro isn’t even a top tier, now if Mihawk or Shanks were there instead it would be a different outcome imo. WB had three admirals fully stop his attack with just haki. I think the attack was supposed to be one of the strongest attacks in the verse and it is but I don’t think it’s the strongest attack we’ve seen to date which is disappointing because it’s two yonkos.


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## Mihawk (Oct 25, 2021)

arv993 said:


> Kizaru is a low top tier


Who decided that?


arv993 said:


> that’s going to get his butt kicked in by someone like Sanji.


What does that have to do with what I said?


arv993 said:


> He couldn’t do jack to Rayleigh who is a geriatric or stop Marco. We are going by feats and he’s a low top tier like his boy fujitora.


You’re misinterpreting and twisting his feats a bit. Deciding he’s a “low top tier” is on you, not Oda.

Rayleigh is the former right hand of the Pirate King, and Marco is the right hand of the WSM. A stalemate and a skirmish doesn’t indicate anything for anyone if there’s no result. Why diminish all characters just to wank the Yonko?


arv993 said:


> Akainu and aokiji are decisively below big mom and kaido that’s a high diff fight honestly, look at what kaidos done - his feats are much better than Mf akainu.


Baseless speculation. Not sure anything indicates that Big Mom could beat Akainu or Aokiji his equal with “high difficulty”. Onus is on you to prove such a claim.

Akainu the Fleet Admiral and his nigh equals are not “low top tiers” lol. They're close to the cream of the crop. World Government's "Greatest Military Powers". That literally means each of them represents a major part of their overall military potential, and are among the strongest fighters in the world, along with the Yonko.



arv993 said:


> This is an extreme diff fight. It can go either way.


If you say so.

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## arv993 (Oct 25, 2021)

Beast said:


> Yeah not really, the centre point of damage wasn’t dealt to anyone other then Akainu but there is no way you’re going to convince anyone it’s way less powerful when it has better showing. Not his DF makes earthquakes, he earthquakes are apart of his attack, so what you see him do to nature, he can do that damage to single person once he hits.
> 
> yeah, I know but Zoro isn’t even a top tier, now if Mihawk or Shanks were there instead it would be a different outcome imo. WB had three admirals fully stop his attack with just haki. I think the attack was supposed to be one of the strongest attacks in the verse and it is but I don’t think it’s the strongest attack we’ve seen to date which is disappointing because it’s two yonkos.


So wb‘s attacks are stronger than 2 yonkos? Got it. He has higher aoe but it’s not stronger nothing has been shown to prove that. And wb wasn’t using haki as much in Mf.



Zoro isn’t far from a top tier he’s fighting YC1s and is above that and is not far from the fujitoras of the world. The admirals have never blocked anything beyond wb’s weaker attacks it’s a stretch to say they will come out of hakai safety.


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## arv993 (Oct 25, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> Who decided that?
> 
> What does that have to do with what I said?
> 
> ...


His fight with Rayleigh and Marco say that. Bad showings until he does better he’s like fujitora, a low top tier. Rayleigh is almost 80 with 20 years of inactivity and Marco got choked and overwhelmed immediately by big mom, that was going to be a mid diff fight if she had her souls.

I’m not diminishing them that’s what they are until they show otherwise, you admiral fans put akainu on a pedestal when he was fighting a sick wb he’s not kaido nor does he have the feats to back it up. Big mom wouldn’t lose to wb when he’s bartered like that, that is proof enough that this isn’t some extreme diff battle.

Who said kizaru is equal to akainu. Also it wouldn’t make sense for them to be, if Zoro and Sanji are taking them on, the fleet admiral being stronger makes sense.

Yea they are the strongest the marines have to offer yet they had to go recruit the WSS and other pirates back in the day, they are not equal to a yonko 1v1. They can give high to extreme diff maybe akainu got a zkk boost with aokiji but in MF he is not on kaido’s level.

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## Mihawk (Oct 26, 2021)

arv993 said:


> His fight with Rayleigh and Marco say that. *Bad showings until he does better he’s like fujitora, a low top tier*. Rayleigh is almost 80 with 20 years of inactivity and Marco got choked and overwhelmed immediately by big mom, that was going to be a mid diff fight if she had her souls.
> 
> I’m not diminishing them that’s what they are until they show otherwise, you admiral fans put akainu on a pedestal when he was fighting a sick wb he’s not kaido nor does he have the feats to back it up. Big mom wouldn’t lose to wb when he’s bartered like that, that is proof enough that this isn’t some extreme diff battle.
> 
> ...


Only in fanfiction.net. Those aren't bad showings for Kizaru...those are meant to be very good showings that reflect well on Rayleigh and Marco. Seriously, reading comprehension. Also Big Mom requiring mid-diff to beat Marco actually reflects pretty well on Kizaru.

No one has put Akainu on a pedestal. Oda has put him on a pedestal by making him known to us as Fleet Admiral the same time we found out Blackbeard was Emperor. You guys act like Sick Whitebeard stomped him, when that was not the case at all. Akainu and Aokiji both fought completely evenly with that version of Whitebeard, and even gained the upper hand on him at times until he was bloodlusted. Sick old Whitebeard didn't give a rat's ass about his own illnesses, health, condition, or his own life when he was about to bring hell on Akainu. And yes you're right, that is proof enough that this isn't some extreme diff battle...Colored Trio don't need extreme diff to take out Kaido/Mom in a 3v2.

The manga says so. They are nigh equals, just as the Yonko are nigh equal to each other. Akainu/Aokiji fought for 10 days. It's up to you to prove that Kizaru wouldn't be able to. Like I said, each of them formed the Government's "Greatest Military Powers". Akainu may have gotten a boost after fighting Aokiji and getting promoted, but that only helps the Admirals' case overall. Zoro and Sanji have nothing to do with this my man.

Ummm yes they need the Shichibukai and the WSS to counter the totality of the Four Emperors _and_ their crews. It's not just the 4 captains, but the vast fleets and numerous other combatants and Commanders that form a bulk of the Yonko's military potential. You also can't forget that the Revolutionary Army is another potential hostile element towards the Government. Admirals don't have to be equal to a Yonko 1v1 to form a major bulk of the Government's power, but that isn't even the point...nothing indicates 3 of them require extreme-diff to beat 2 mere Yonko.

If Akainu got a boost as you said, and can give Kaido extreme-diff, then they are on the same level even if Kaido wins...


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## arv993 (Oct 26, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> Only in fanfiction.net. Those aren't bad showings for Kizaru...those are meant to be very good showings that reflect well on Rayleigh and Marco. Seriously, reading comprehension. Also Big Mom requiring mid-diff to beat Marco actually reflects pretty well on Kizaru.
> 
> No one has put Akainu on a pedestal. Oda has put him on a pedestal by making him known to us as Fleet Admiral the same time we found out Blackbeard was Emperor. You guys act like Sick Whitebeard stomped him, when that was not the case at all. Akainu and Aokiji both fought completely evenly with that version of Whitebeard, and even gained the upper hand on him at times until he was bloodlusted. Sick old Whitebeard didn't give a rat's ass about his own illnesses, health, condition, or his own life when he was about to bring hell on Akainu. And yes you're right, that is proof enough that this isn't some extreme diff battle...Colored Trio don't need extreme diff to take out Kaido/Mom in a 3v2.
> 
> ...




I am not going to assume he got a boost but if he did then he could face luffy while Zoro and Sanji deal with the other “equal” admirals. Admirals aren’t equal if they are facing strawhats, we all know there’s a hierarchy in SH’s


Also mid diff is bad, she overpowered him so easily, just had no soul powers according to her at that point. Kizaru was getting stalemated by that same guy. Right there we can see there is quite a difference. 

Umm kizaru is not fighting 10 days or have the ability to put down YC1 characters, until I see more it’s stupid to say they are nigh equals.


Is fujitora equal to akainu too?? I can’t put these unproven guys on akainu’s level. 


Rayleigh is out of shape and is even with a top tier and this made kizaru go on a rampage in shame, the guy doesn’t have it. Esp if he’s sanji’s final opponent I’m not putting my hopes on the guy. I may be wrong but his feats aren’t equivalent to kaido or big mom, in fact they surpass his feats by a good margin.



Whitebeard was superior to him in a battered state, no yonko would have had the difficulty that the admirals had, akainu even went to squardo to get every bit of advantage he can get. It doesn’t look good for akainu but my hope is he got stronger.

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## ClannadFan (Oct 26, 2021)

Whew there's alot of good and bad on both sides of the arguement here.

1. Hakai is the strongest attack shown so far 
2. C3>2 Yonkou, should be obvious but some KaidoBros are on some other shit
3. Current RT5 would beat BM and Kaido. As someone said Luffy holds off Kaido while the 4 jump Big Mom. Easy day.
4. Adding 1 more top tier changes the entire dynamic. Now instead Luffy is holding off Akainu while the others have to go 2v1 instead of 4v1. Kidd and Law have shown that they are likely >=Big Mom, but that's gonna be an extreme diff fight if they win. Idc if you think the Yonks are stronger, the Admirals at worst are relative to them. Meaning they would be able to hold off the other RT5 in a 2v1 long enough for Akainu to beat Luffy and then come help the others. Current Luffy is not stronger than any of the Yonks or Admirals yet. I'm guessing he will be at the end of Wano, but we're not there yet. As of right now I believe he would lose to Akainu faster than any of the other RT5 could beat an Admiral 2v1. Also, the team without Law will be more likely to lose thier match up, his support is a huge reason why Big Mom is going down. If it's Zoro and Killer vs Kizaru, I can see that fight being over the fastest. Depends where you have Killer, since some think he's a YC3.


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## Duhul10 (Oct 26, 2021)

How in hell have Law and Kidd shown they are >= BM thus far? I want what you people've got, that's some powerful sh*t

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## ClannadFan (Oct 26, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> How in hell have Law and Kidd shown they are >= BM thus far? I want what you people've got, that's some powerful sh*t


So are Kidd and Law not heavily nerfed currently and still holding thier own while being heavily foreshadowed to defeat Big Mom? At worst it's a draw, thats where the=> comes from, and even if it were a draw, Kidd and Law started the fight nerfed. This is what I mean by Yonkou fans not reading the manga.

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## Duhul10 (Oct 26, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> So are Kidd and Law not heavily nerfed currently and still holding thier own while being heavily foreshadowed to defeat Big Mom? At worst it's a draw, thats where the=> comes from, and even if it were a draw, Kidd and Law started the fight nerfed. This is what I mean by Yonkou fans not reading the manga.


So kidd having a headache and a stab, means the 2 of them are stronger than BM? Gtfo of here dude  they may be by the end of the fight, but now they haven't even made her bleed. She's still all laugh and she seems not to be using CoCoA ( unless you provide scans of it ). Your way of seeing things is either disgustingly subjective or simply bizarre ( there were better words, more accurate, but I would've insulted you if I used them )

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ClannadFan (Oct 26, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> So kidd having a headache and a stab, means the 2 of them are stronger than BM? Gtfo of here dude  they may be by the end of the fight, but now they haven't even made her bleed. She's still all laugh and she seems not to be using CoCoA ( unless you provide scans of it ). Your way of seeing things is either disgustingly subjective or simply bizarre ( there were better words, more accurate, but I would've insulted you if I used them )


So you don't think the entire Hawkins situation did anything to Kidd? That's all I gotta hear to know where your mind sets at. As someone else said, a moments distraction on the battlefield should mean a defeat, as we saw with Aokiji vs Jozu. But Big Mom couldn't do it, why is that? She even had the chance to land a direct hit while he was on the ground and Law was still recovering from an attack but couldn't put him down. Probably because the duo is >= her. Which shouldn't be a hot take, since they are still supposed to be Luffy's Rivals, even if the fanbase thinks its a joke at this point, but Oda clearly doesn't.

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## Duhul10 (Oct 26, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> So you don't think the entire Hawkins situation did anything to Kidd? That's all I gotta hear to know where your mind sets at. As someone else said, a moments distraction on the battlefield should mean a defeat, as we saw with Aokiji vs Jozu. But Big Mom couldn't do it, why is that? She even had the chance to land a direct hit while he was on the ground and Law was still recovering from an attack but couldn't put him down. Probably because the duo is >= her. Which shouldn't be a hot take, since they are still supposed to be Luffy's Rivals, even if the fanbase thinks its a joke at this point, but Oda clearly doesn't.


Dude...
Where do I begin?
Apart from completely ignoring my points, making me take it as a concession from you, you're also trying to manouver my words. I specifically stated: a headache ! Which is what it was. 
Stop being so biased and clear your mind. Bm is not hurt. She is laughing, she isn't using CoCoA as far as we know, the duo is bloodied.
I want you to give your best and tell me why the duo has proven to be superior to BM thus far. I deny you the argument of "heavily nerfed", cause it's too stupid for me to waste time with, as I've already countered it.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## ClannadFan (Oct 26, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Dude...
> Where do I begin?
> Apart from completely ignoring my points, making me take it as a concession from you, you're also trying to manouver my words. I specifically stated: a headache ! Which is what it was.
> Stop being so biased and clear your mind. Bm is not hurt. She is laughing, she isn't using CoCoA as far as we know, the duo is bloodied.
> I want you to give your best and tell me why the duo has proven to be superior to BM thus far. I deny you the argument of "heavily nerfed", cause it's too stupid for me to waste time with, as I've already countered it.


I'm not wasting more time arguing with you at 3 in the morning lol. I already know how it's gonna go. Take it as a concession idc, maybe you can go brag about it to your other KaidoBros lmao.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Strobacaxi (Oct 26, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> So are Kidd and Law not heavily nerfed currently and still holding thier own while being heavily foreshadowed to defeat Big Mom? At worst it's a draw, thats where the=> comes from, and even if it were a draw, Kidd and Law started the fight nerfed. This is what I mean by Yonkou fans not reading the manga.


Holding their own? They're both laying on the ground and BM doesn't have a scratch on her wtf are you smoking?

lol but Yonko fans are the one who don't read the manga loool

Reactions: Winner 1


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## ClannadFan (Oct 26, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Holding their own? They're both laying on the ground and BM doesn't have a scratch on her wtf are you smoking?
> 
> lol but Yonko fans are the one who don't read the manga loool


She literally has marks all over her body wtf are you talking about lmao. You can say she hasn't bled yet, but not a scratch? Lmaooo read the manga pls

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Strobacaxi (Oct 26, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> She literally has marks all over her body wtf are you talking about lmao. You can say she hasn't bled yet, but not a scratch? Lmaooo read the manga pls


You mean the dirt that's been in her face since Kidd threw her face on the ground?

lol


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## MrPopo (Oct 26, 2021)

3 admirals win, 2 admirals lose

Reactions: Agree 2


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## ClannadFan (Oct 26, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> You mean the dirt that's been in her face since Kidd threw her face on the ground?
> 
> lol


Its literally all over her arms too, but sure call it dirt. That'll make it worse if Big Mom does lose, meaning the moment Hawkins stopped messing with Kidd they wiped the floor with her lmao. You Yonkou fans set yourself up for failure.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Strobacaxi (Oct 26, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> Its literally all over her arms too, but sure call it dirt. That'll make it worse if Big Mom does lose, meaning the moment Hawkins stopped messing with Kidd they wiped the floor with her lmao. You Yonkou fans set yourself up for failure.


Sure thing buddy

Guess I'll laugh you out again same way as last time you were so adamant you were right

Looking for dirt marks to say Law and Kidd are holding their own LOOOOL



"Holding their own"

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ClannadFan (Oct 26, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Sure thing buddy
> 
> Guess I'll laugh you out again same way as last time you were so adamant you were right


You mean when I was right but you tried to make my point something else? Lmao do whatever makes you happy, this shit clearly means alot to you

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Strobacaxi (Oct 26, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> You mean when I was right but you tried to make my point something else? Lmao do whatever makes you happy, this shit clearly means alot to you


Yes yes, I remember you trying to change your point. Unfortunately the internet doesn't forget, and your posts were quoted to you back 

loool


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## MrPopo (Oct 26, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Sure thing buddy
> 
> Guess I'll laugh you out again same way as last time you were so adamant you were right
> 
> ...


Are you just going to ignore the next panel where they get back up   *? *

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ClannadFan (Oct 26, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Yes yes, I remember you trying to change your point. Unfortunately the internet doesn't forget, and your posts were quoted to you back
> 
> loool


Yeah, I remember the quoted post literally had the main point in there, but you decided to focus on just 1 part that was wrong. Lmaoooo dont think I forgot. But like I said, this shit means aloooooot to you, so I'll you be happy


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## Furinji Saiga (Oct 26, 2021)

At the end of Wano the rooftop bros might make this somewhat competitive. As they are now they get beaten handily.

Reactions: Like 2


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## ClannadFan (Oct 26, 2021)

MrPopo said:


> Are you just going to ignore the next panel where they get back up   *? *


This is how he debates. I dont even bother with this one lol


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## Duhul10 (Oct 26, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> I'm not wasting more time arguing with you at 3 in the morning lol. I already know how it's gonna go. Take it as a concession idc, maybe you can go brag about it to your other KaidoBros lmao.


Alright, thanks for the concession. Til next time, reread the last 5 chapters, take it as a homework.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Strobacaxi (Oct 26, 2021)

MrPopo said:


> Are you just going to ignore the next panel where they get back up   *? *




Yes they sure look like they're holding their own don't they

They look SO equally matched with BM right? She's also bleeding all over, puffing, on her knees

Oh wait, no she doesn't. She doesn't have a scratch on her and looks like she's been having a tea party for 30 minutes


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## MrPopo (Oct 26, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Yes they sure look like they're holding their own don't they
> 
> They look SO equally matched with BM right? She's also bleeding all over, puffing, on her knees
> 
> Oh wait, no she doesn't. She doesn't have a scratch on her and looks like she's been having a tea party for 30 minutes


So now you're using a panel where kidd was nerfed by Hawkins?

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Strobacaxi (Oct 26, 2021)

MrPopo said:


> So now you're using a panel where kidd was nerfed by Hawkins?


Yes I'm sure BM's attack had nothing to do with it right?



No no, I'm sure it had nothing to do with it, 100% hawkins

Poor trolling attempt my friend


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## Mihawk (Oct 26, 2021)

Well tbh if the Kidd/Law duo is getting overpowered by Big Mom, it really doesn’t speak well to their ability of overcoming Akainu or Aokiji either, regardless of how you view admirals/Yonko, in this match up lol.


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## MrPopo (Oct 26, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Yes I'm sure BM's attack had nothing to do with it right?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We saw kidd go back to norm once Hawkins nerf was gone. Why do you keep ignoring this ?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Mihawk (Oct 26, 2021)

If Kidd was mindfucked by Hawkins while fighting Akainu, he would’ve been turned to charred toast

Reactions: Agree 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Duhul10 (Oct 26, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> If Kidd was mindfucked by Hawkins while fighting Akainu, he would’ve been turned to charred toast


Akainu failed to kill pre ts Luffy who was guarded by some noobs.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 2


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## ClannadFan (Oct 26, 2021)

MrPopo said:


> We saw kidd go back to norm once Hawkins nerf was gone. Why do you keep ignoring this ?


He uses the panel of Big Mom getting a clean hit on Kidd but doesn't realize she got the clean hit because of Hawkins. As my Momma would say, "May God bless his heart, he doesn't know any better"

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Strobacaxi (Oct 26, 2021)

MrPopo said:


> We saw kidd go back to norm once Hawkins nerf was gone. Why do you keep ignoring this ?


Back to normal? lol You have a very wide definition of "normal" lol


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## Mihawk (Oct 26, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Akainu failed to kill pre ts Luffy who was guarded by some noobs.


Pre ts luffy doesn’t count   he’s the MC and was guarded by the entire WB remnants + Ace + jimbei 

Meanwhile, Kaido failed to kill Kinemon with multiple attacks

Reactions: Funny 1


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## MrPopo (Oct 26, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Back to normal? lol You have a very wide definition of "normal" lol


Big Mom and kidd agree with me

Reactions: Like 2


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## Strobacaxi (Oct 26, 2021)

MrPopo said:


> Big Mom and kidd agree with me


"no longer under the weather" doesn't mean "You're fine now" lol and Kidd is clearly lying

"I've never felt better!" he says, while small rivers of blood flow through his face


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## MrPopo (Oct 26, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> "no longer under the weather" doesn't mean "You're fine now" lol and Kidd is clearly lying
> 
> "I've never felt better!" he says, while small rivers of blood flow through his face


So now we're scalling blood, looks like axe hand morgan is > Pre-ts Garp 


Also I wonder what caused kidd to blead

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Strobacaxi (Oct 26, 2021)

MrPopo said:


> So now we're scalling blood, looks like axe hand morgan is > Pre-ts Garp
> 
> 
> Also I wonder what caused kidd to blead


Are you acting purposely retarded or something?

If you're bleeding, you're not "Better than ever" 
I thought that was basic, but I guess I need to explain things to you as if you were 2 years old?

I'm sure BM had nothing to do with that, I mean Oda did draw Kidd getting up, BM attacking him and imediately after Kidd collapsed on the floor, but I'm sure that's just because Hawkins banged his head against a wall at the exact same time


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## MrPopo (Oct 26, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Are you acting purposely retarded or something?
> 
> If you're bleeding, you're not "Better than ever" thought that was basic, but I guess I need to explain things to you as if you were 2 years old?


This shounen bleeding isn't going to hinder you. 


Strobacaxi said:


> I'm sure BM had nothing to do with that, I mean Oda did draw Kidd getting up, BM attacking him and imediately after Kidd collapsed on the floor, but I'm sure that's just because Hawkins banged his head against a wall at the exact same time


We literally see in the next page kidd complaining about his headache in the next page


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## Beast (Oct 26, 2021)

arv993 said:


> So wb‘s attacks are stronger than 2 yonkos? Got it. He has higher aoe but it’s not stronger nothing has been shown to prove that. And wb wasn’t using haki as much in Mf.
> 
> 
> 
> Zoro isn’t far from a top tier he’s fighting YC1s and is above that and is not far from the fujitoras of the world. The admirals have never blocked anything beyond wb’s weaker attacks it’s a stretch to say they will come out of hakai safety.


It’s on panel, you gotta ask Oda why he did that. But he’s also a larger effect with his DF, so it’s not just a better AOE, it’s got a better overall showing. Doesn’t really matter if he used haki tbh, he’s got the quake fruit.

Lool, Zoro isn’t top tier full stop, I’m not getting into how far or close he is to one, every and any top tier would slap him silly without any effort. So I’m not using him as a measuring stick to compare it to top tiers. Akainu himself took an attack stronger then Hakai, so with the help of two other admirals, it’s Hakai that needs to prove it can bypass three admirals. Now that is  baseless. An attack that Zoro was able to intercept and slow down… would overpower three admirals… yeah right.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Amol (Oct 26, 2021)

Of course Admirals wins.
Two Yonkou was nightmare apparently. SNs worked hard to seperate them. It is still going to be an extreme diff fight and there is not even a guarantee that at the end of arc Big Mom would even actually lose.

So these 5 can't really handle two Top tiers.

All 3 Admirals would play pong with them. They die horrific deaths.

Reactions: GODA 1


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## Duhul10 (Oct 26, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> *Pre ts luffy doesn’t count  he’s the MC* and was guarded by the entire WB remnants + Ace + jimbei
> 
> Meanwhile, Kaido failed to kill Kinemon with multiple attacks


He was mostly guarded by jinbe  
kaido one shot Kinnemon in base 2 times.
Loved the bolded, quite an argument

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## MrPopo (Oct 26, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> He was mostly guarded by jinbe
> kaido one shot Kinnemon in base 2 times.
> Loved the bolded, quite an argument


Akainu one shotted jinbei


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## Fel1x (Oct 26, 2021)

another proof that 80% of Zoro fans are admiral fans in disguise. Hyping Zoro just helps their main agenda - admiral wank

where are all this crazy fanboys now? I don't see any of them voting for RT5. they are vocal everywhere aside something where admirals are involved

Reactions: Tier Specialist 4


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## Duhul10 (Oct 26, 2021)

MrPopo said:


> Akainu one shotted jinbei


And? Did the ruthless Akainu get pre ts Luffy ? Or did people like Crocodile delay him and Buggy dodge his attacks?

Reactions: Tier Specialist 2 | Dislike 1


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## arv993 (Oct 26, 2021)

Beast said:


> It’s on panel, you gotta ask Oda why he did that. But he’s also a larger effect with his DF, so it’s not just a better AOE, it’s got a better overall showing. Doesn’t really matter if he used haki tbh, he’s got the quake fruit.
> 
> Lool, Zoro isn’t top tier full stop, I’m not getting into how far or close he is to one, every and any top tier would slap him silly without any effort. So I’m not using him as a measuring stick to compare it to top tiers. Akainu himself took an attack stronger then Hakai, so with the help of two other admirals, it’s Hakai that needs to prove it can bypass three admirals. Now that is  baseless. An attack that Zoro was able to intercept and slow down… would overpower three admirals… yeah right.


Larger aoe doesn’t matter, freaking BB survived a quake to the face- I think haki would make a difference.

He’s pretty close he’s YC1+, he’d give low top tiers like fujitora a good fight. Lol without effort hahaha fuji boy is having difficulties with Revos but yea he can handle Zoro neg diff

Sickbeard’s attack is not greater than two yonkos with haki lol

Zoro got hurt and shattered almost every bone in his body for a holding it for a second, admirals would get pushed back and hurt at the very least… no feats to suggest otherwise.


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## Beast (Oct 26, 2021)

arv993 said:


> Larger aoe doesn’t matter, freaking BB survived a quake to the face- I think haki would make a difference.
> 
> He’s pretty close he’s YC1+, he’d give low top tiers like fujitora a good fight. Lol without effort hahaha fuji boy is having difficulties with Revos but yea he can handle Zoro neg diff
> 
> ...


BB is a tank. And that was death bed WB, no one is talking about WB on his last leg.

lol, I don’t really speak too much on things that are offpanel, so other then PIS/ CIS hard to say anything especially since we don’t even know any of their levels (RA commanders) as well as GB who we haven’t seen at all. You say that but top tiers have shown us without PIs/ CIS characters anyone not a top tier is almost 1Shot material.

well, all you have to do is post panels with them showing something above the level of WBs attack, what you think and what it is… are two completely different things.
Long story short… I gotta see it to believe it.


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## arv993 (Oct 26, 2021)

Beast said:


> BB is a tank. And that was death bed WB, no one is talking about WB on his last leg.
> 
> lol, I don’t really speak too much on things that are offpanel, so other then PIS/ CIS hard to say anything especially since we don’t even know any of their levels (RA commanders) as well as GB who we haven’t seen at all. You say that but top tiers have shown us without PIs/ CIS characters anyone not a top tier is almost 1Shot material.
> 
> ...




Hakai is haki plus two top tiers, wb at mf without haki having more power than 2 yonko is absurd.


Not all top tiers are equal, unless you’re telling me that fujitora, kizaru or luffy can give primebeard and roger an extreme diff fight.

Hell why didn’t top tier kizaru one shot old inactive Rayleigh or Marco.

BB takes double damage and he was fine, doesn’t bode well for your theory of the attack being > hakai.


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## A Optimistic (Oct 26, 2021)

Happy to see more votes for rooftop 5


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## Gokou08 (Oct 27, 2021)

arv993 said:


> Hakai is haki plus two top tiers, wb at mf without haki having more power than 2 yonko is absurd.
> 
> 
> Not all top tiers are equal, unless you’re telling me that fujitora, kizaru or luffy can give primebeard and roger an extreme diff fight.
> ...


No one can One-Shot Marco due to his Regen. 

We all know Kizaru would eventually beat Rayleigh, but that was not the main purpose Kizaru was there, he completely tried to avoid fighting him for the sake of capturing the SH's.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## arv993 (Oct 27, 2021)

Gokou08 said:


> No one can One-Shot Marco due to his Regen.
> 
> We all know Kizaru would eventually beat Rayleigh, but that was not the main purpose Kizaru was there, he completely tried to avoid fighting him for the sake of capturing the SH's.


He would beat old Rayleigh but with a lot of difficulty, he gave up and raged on noob pirates because Rayleigh got in his way.

Marco was a straight up stalemate it wasn’t like he was overpowering him like how big mom handled Marco.

Reactions: Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Gokou08 (Oct 27, 2021)

arv993 said:


> *He would beat old Rayleigh but with a lot of difficulty, he gave up and raged on noob pirates because Rayleigh got in his way.*
> 
> Marco was a straight up stalemate it wasn’t like he was overpowering him like how big mom handled Marco.


Not true.

Kizaru said to Ray himself that his subordinates were strong enough to capture the SH's, Ray was sweating from fighting Kizaru and saying he wanted to helped them but wasn't Young enough.

The reason Kizaru was mad and frustrated was because Kuma sent the SH's (Who touched and wound the CD's) out of Sabaody and it made him lose face.






Kizaru was pretty casual against Ray, and he simply wanted to capture the SH's, he never raged because of Ray, but because of Kuma's interference regarding the SH's.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## Seraphoenix (Oct 27, 2021)

Admirals get folded quickly. 

Luffy is too much for any admiral to handle at the moment. Those Kong gatlings with advanced Cotc and advanced CoA aren't going to be tanked, given Akainu's low durability (Man was on the ground from weak gura attacks).

Reactions: Funny 1 | Lewd 1 | Tier Specialist 3


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## Gokou08 (Oct 27, 2021)

Seraphoenix said:


> Admirals get folded quickly.
> 
> Luffy is too much for any admiral to handle at the moment. Those Kong gatlings with advanced Cotc and advanced CoA aren't going to be tanked, given Akainu's low durability (Man was on the ground from weak gura attacks).


Luffy isn't that strong. 

Let him beat kaidoi first.


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## Seraphoenix (Oct 27, 2021)

Gokou08 said:


> Luffy isn't that strong.
> 
> Let him beat kaidoi first.


Luffy surpassed logia admirals when he beat Katakuri. Oda literally set it up for him to safely learn how to beat an awakened logia with future sight.

Name something an admiral has an advantage over Luffy right now. He is better in all hakis. Garp was apparently PK level according to OL with just haki. So what can any admiral do to Luffy? Base Luffy is keeping up with Hybrid Kaido who is much stronger than any admiral. The writing has been on the wall. Oda even gives you guys big clues like the sky splitting but unfortunately some people refuse to be spoonfed.

Marco is admiral level per the databook lmfao. Ask yourself if current Luffy can beat Marco. That will tell you whether he beats an admiral.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Tier Specialist 6


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## Gokou08 (Oct 27, 2021)

Seraphoenix said:


> Luffy surpassed logia admirals when he beat Katakuri. Oda literally set it up for him to safely learn how to beat an awakened logia with future sight.
> 
> Name something an admiral has an advantage over Luffy right now. He is better in all hakis. Garp was apparently PK level according to OL with just haki. So what can any admiral do to Luffy? Base Luffy is keeping up with Hybrid Kaido who is much stronger than any admiral. The writing has been on the wall. Oda even gives you guys big clues like the Sky splitting but unfortunately some people refuse to be spoonfed.
> 
> Marco is admiral level per the databook lmfao. Ask yourself if current Luffy can beat Marco. That will tell you whether he beats an admiral.



I sincerely wonder how splitting the sky makes you above other Top Tiers, is Luffy above Mihawk simply because he split the Sky? 

Is he above Imu or Teach? 
Splitting the Sky is a good feat, but overrated. 

Admirals changing the landscape of an island for 2 whole Years is a better feat than splitting the skies for 3 minutes, therefore Admirals>3 DF's EoS Teach, realize how abused the claim is? 

We don't know anything about how powerful Admirals can be. 
Whether how their awakening works, FS, ACoA, potential CoC Admirals like Akainu. 

Just because Yonkos are Currently looking OP since admirals don't showcase their skills in 5+ Years doesn't mean anything.


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## Seraphoenix (Oct 27, 2021)

Gokou08 said:


> I sincerely wonder how splitting the sky makes you above other Top Tiers, is Luffy above Mihawk simply because he split the Sky?
> 
> Is he above Imu or Teach?
> Splitting the Sky is a good feat, but overrated.
> ...


It could be the case   I don't expect any Yonko tier character to ask Vista to postpone. Though given Zoro has CotC it's unlikely Mihawk doesn't.

No it isn't overrated. It's the author reserving it for the best of the best. It's a visual indicator for readers that a certain level of strength has been reached. Oda was very careful to only have Great Pirate level characters have this kind of clash. We even know from Chinjao that only the strongest conqueror can be PK. So to be the strongest character, having top level CotC is a pre-requisite.

Admirals just spammed fruits for 10 days. It's not impressive at all when BB can sink an island in a minute. Or Kaido can lift one up.  Also Ace changed the weather of Drum island just from being there. So changing the climate is really not impressive.

If they had CotC they would have used it at the war to assist their fodder comrades. They had no problem throwing big AoE. So all hints are that they don't have it.

We saw their showcase. They needed distractions to get an advantage over top commanders. In a war situation. Marco is admiral level per a databook. You're trying to rely on fanfics of showing in 5 years when we already have enough info to assess them not being near the Great Pirates.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Tier Specialist 3


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## Gokou08 (Oct 27, 2021)

Seraphoenix said:


> It could be the case   I don't expect any Yonko tier character to ask Vista to postpone. Though given Zoro has CotC it's unlikely Mihawk doesn't.
> 
> No it isn't overrated. It's the author reserving it for the best of the best. It's a visual indicator for readers that a certain level of strength has been reached. Oda was very careful to only have Great Pirate level characters have this kind of clash. We even know from Chinjao that only the strongest conqueror can be PK. So to be the strongest character, having top level CotC is a pre-requisite.
> 
> ...


Marco is not Admiral level, he is simply a stall device, as soon as is Regen goes down he gets Mid Diffed by any Top Tier. 

Like I said I didn't mention changing for a day, but 2 Years, it's completely different. 

Who knows if they have it or not?


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## GreenEggsAHam (Oct 27, 2021)

@Seraphoenix 

You're the best troll man, how have you been doing this for a decade?

Also if it's unlikely for mihawk not to have coc might as well say the same for the admirals, they're the World government strongest fighter even when mihawk was apart of the WG.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Daisuke Jigen (Oct 27, 2021)

Seraphoenix said:


> I don't expect any Yonko tier character to ask Vista to postpone.



*Spoiler*: __

Reactions: Funny 6 | Tier Specialist 2


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## arv993 (Oct 27, 2021)

Gokou08 said:


> Not true.
> 
> Kizaru said to Ray himself that his subordinates were strong enough to capture the SH's, Ray was sweating from fighting Kizaru and saying he wanted to helped them but wasn't Young enough.
> 
> ...


False he was sweating cuz he hasn’t fought for over 20 years. They mention later that kizaru couldn’t do jack and raged on fodder pirates, so the dude was far from casual. 


He was essentially cockblocked, he had direct orders from the tenryubito to go capture these pirates.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Seraphoenix (Oct 28, 2021)

Gokou08 said:


> Marco is not Admiral level, he is simply a stall device, as soon as is Regen goes down he gets Mid Diffed by any Top Tier.
> 
> Like I said I didn't mention changing for a day, but 2 Years, it's completely different.
> 
> Who knows if they have it or not?


Databook says he is admiral level. Far more credible than a random poster like you. Cope. 

If you have evidence that they have it then present it. 


GreenEggsAHam said:


> @Seraphoenix
> 
> You're the best troll man, how have you been doing this for a decade?
> 
> Also if it's unlikely for mihawk not to have coc might as well say the same for the admirals, they're the World government strongest fighter even when mihawk was apart of the WG.


lmfao. I'm sure you know that you're the GOAT troll by far. 

They were as a collective the WG's strongest military power. So 3 admirals together>Mihawk. If they had it they would have used it at the war where Sengoku said they could lose.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## GreenEggsAHam (Oct 28, 2021)

Seraphoenix said:


> Databook says he is admiral level. Far more credible than a random poster like you. Cope.
> 
> If you have evidence that they have it then present it.
> 
> ...


Well actually robin said, hes *one  *of the three strongest WG fighters, Mihawk>shanks

Admirals~ or > Mihawk

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Ezekjuninor (Oct 28, 2021)

C3 high diffs. Akainu beats Luffy very high diff. Aokiji beats Law+Kidd very highdiff. Kizaru beats Zoro+Killer high diff.

R5 might win post Wano


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## Seraphoenix (Oct 28, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Well actually robin said, hes *one  *of the three strongest WG fighters, Mihawk>shanks
> 
> Admirals~ or > Mihawk


One of a collective that are known as the WG's greatest force (Not fighters btw). 
Same as this panel:

The Greatest Military force is a term used to describe the three admirals together. 

Also like I said, Marco is admiral level. Is Shanks Marco level? Obviously not as Marco is weaker than Ben Beckman. Shanks didn't ask Marco to join as Co-captain or even co-vice captain. Despite being admiral level, Marco would just be another commander on Shanks' ship. Similar to Aokiji who is grouped with Shiryu, as a BB underling

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3 | Tier Specialist 1


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## ClannadFan (Oct 28, 2021)

When I realize some people here have been trolling for over 10 years lmao. It's gotta be hard to keep that up since yall never seem to turn off the persona. (Also makes me really wonder how you are irl but that's a whole nother can of worms) I get bored of messing with people after an hour, 10 years is something else.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Oct 28, 2021)

Seraphoenix said:


> One of a collective that are known as the WG's greatest force (Not fighters btw).
> Same as this panel:
> 
> The Greatest Military force is a term used to describe the three admirals together.
> ...


Lol you always make me laugh man. 


Shanks did acknowledge admiral level marco though on WB ship asking him to join his crew to replace yonko level benn beckman


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## TheWiggian (Oct 28, 2021)

Seraph just farming tier specialist ratings, he's not actually serious.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 2


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## Steven (Oct 29, 2021)

C3 wins
C2 loses


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## Fel1x (Oct 29, 2021)

is it time to change your votes?

Reactions: Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Geralt-Singh (Oct 29, 2021)

C3 mid diff


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## ClannadFan (Oct 29, 2021)

I still got the C3 winning it. From what we've seen so far the new awakenings probably wont be as useful against the C3 as it would be against Kaido and Big Mom, simply because those 2 never dodge while the C3 would definetly make it a lot harder for them to land those attacks. Also, I don't expect Big Mom to be down yet anyway, so it's not like it'd be the end of the world if they managed to land it. If Kidd and Law show more impressive stuff with thier awakenings and Zoro gets another power up then I could see it happening, but until then C3 still got it.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Navy Scribe (Oct 29, 2021)

Fel1x said:


> another proof that 80% of Zoro fans are admiral fans in disguise. Hyping Zoro just helps their main agenda - admiral wank
> 
> where are all this crazy fanboys now? I don't see any of them voting for RT5. they are vocal everywhere aside something where admirals are involved

Reactions: Funny 1


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## MrPopo (Oct 29, 2021)

They still lose

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Oct 29, 2021)

Kizaru can beat like 5 Kidds

Reactions: Funny 7 | Optimistic 1


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Oct 29, 2021)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Kizaru can beat like 5 Kidds


Wba five Laws?


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## Strobacaxi (Oct 29, 2021)

Not sure how this chapter is supposed to change anything. BM, the weakest Yonko is wrecking 2 of the RT5 with minimal effort

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Amol (Oct 29, 2021)

Nothing changed whatsoever.

Even if you think Kid and Law can beat Big Mom that would mean that it would take 2 SN for 1 top tier.

There are 3 Admirals and only 5 SN. Even by above logic, it would require at least 6 SN.


So these 5 SN are getting their assess kicked here. 3 Admirals working together is a scary sight. Just like how two Yonkou working together was considered as Hell by Kid.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Mylesime (Oct 29, 2021)

This chapter actually favors the C3.
Law and Kidd, despite their power ups are still struggling against Mama who did not go all out. We are yet to see her awakening,  a power showcased by Ao Kiji and Aka inu on Punk Hazard.
If 1 top tier requires Law and Kidd whole attention, they're still fucked.
They have a chance against two Yonkos, but none against 3 admirals.


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## Bobybobster (Oct 29, 2021)

This chapter reminds us once again how lethal meigo is GODA


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## oiety (Oct 29, 2021)

I'm not sure how much either of their awakenings could affect a logia admiral.
 so Kidd is fucked by default against Akainu, albeit with a boost against Aokiji as they can increase in strength with colder temperatures. Still, it's ultimately hakiless metal hitting an elemental target, so it'd just smash him and he'd reform.

Law depends. Haki+awakening could definitely catch an occupied admiral (which they would be assuming Kidd is on the offensive with haki and a metal fist) and do damage but the retaliation would be severe.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mickey Mouse (Oct 29, 2021)

Bobybobster said:


> unfortunately for rt5 the *admirals aren't idiots who will stand there and take their attacks*. Akainu's attacks are far more lethal than the likes of meme's/kaido's, so they won't be as forgiving to be hit by.


They have shown nothing but that though.


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## Amatérasu’s Son (Oct 29, 2021)

TheOmega said:


> Remember Kizaru literally moves at Lightspeed. What is Law's warping gonna do for him?


But Luffy was able to evade lasers derived directly from Kizaru's powers with normal Kenbunshoku. Furthermore space warping is faster than light, and warped space can bend light. Inside the Room, Law can make Kizaru miss.


Duhul10 said:


> Thing is, if Luffy actually somehow gets very very close to Kaido's strength, the admirals are done for, cause it would mean luffy at the very least stalemates one. Then we have 4 vs 2 and Law zapping people like Zoro means a lot of trouble. Kidd's about to show something big I believe as well.
> By the end of Wano, only the admiral fanbase will still believe the C3 beats a team like that.


The hiearchy is definitely Yonkos more powerful than Admirals. But Luffy being able to fight Kaido doesn't automatically place him above the Admirals either. Luffy has spike strength, but not sustained strength. It's like Goku using Kaio Ken, he can raise his power to that level and fight convincingly. The Admirals and Yonko have stamina. They can hold that level for an extended period of time. Luffy can't truly claim his spot at that level permanently until he can hold that strength for days on end.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Informative 1 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## A Optimistic (Oct 29, 2021)

Amol said:


> Nothing changed whatsoever.
> 
> Even if you think Kid and Law can beat Big Mom that would mean that it would take 2 SN for 1 top tier.
> 
> ...



????

Why would it require 6 novas when Luffy is in a different league from the other rooftop 5 members and can fight on his own ?

it sounds like you’re treating all 5 of them on the same level but Luffy isn’t on the level of the other 4


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## Amol (Oct 29, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> ????
> 
> Why would it require 6 novas when Luffy is in a different league from the other rooftop 5 members and can fight on his own ?
> 
> it sounds like you’re treating all 5 of them on the same level but Luffy isn’t on the level of the other 4


I do think Luffy is stronger than rest of SN(which logically makes sense given there is going to be only one Pirate King and we are nearing climax of story) but come on he is not going to be strong by two times.

Because if Luffy can beat an Admiral by himself but others require 2 SN each then that means Luffy is twice as strong as any of them.

Do you think Luffy mid diffs rest of SN individually?


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## A Optimistic (Oct 29, 2021)

Amol said:


> I do think Luffy is stronger than rest of SN(which logically makes sense given there is going to be only one Pirate King and we are nearing climax of story) but come on he is not going to be strong by two times.
> 
> Because if Luffy can beat an Admiral by himself but others require 2 SN each then that means Luffy is twice as strong as any of them.
> 
> Do you think Luffy mid diffs rest of SN individually?



what I’m saying is the match up situation would be Luffy vs 1 admiral, and two rooftop 5 members versus the remaining admirals

at that point, it comes down to whether someone thinks Luffy can beat an admiral or not.

im just saying that the rooftop 5 don’t need another member. If someone thinks Luffy can beat an admiral and two rooftop 5 members can beat an admiral, then rooftop 5 should win.

that’s all I meant. at the very least Luffy is at the point where he can fight anyone alone


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## Amol (Oct 29, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> what I’m saying is the match up situation would be Luffy vs 1 admiral, and two rooftop 5 members versus the remaining admirals
> 
> at that point, it comes down to whether someone thinks Luffy can beat an admiral or not.
> 
> ...


You didn't answer my question.

If Luffy can beat admiral by himself but Kid or Law or Zoro or Killer needs to fight in teams of two to beat one admiral then that means Luffy is mid diffing either Law or Kid or Zoro or Killer.

Do you think Zoro legion would agree with you that Luffy mid diffs Zoro?


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## A Optimistic (Oct 29, 2021)

Amol said:


> You didn't answer my question.
> 
> If Luffy can beat admiral by himself but Kid or Law or Zoro or Killer needs to fight in teams of two to beat one admiral then that means Luffy is mid diffing either Law or Kid or Zoro or Killer.
> 
> Do you think Zoro legion would agree with you that Luffy mid diffs Zoro?



nah I don’t think Luffy can beat two rooftop 5 members at once

Luffy’s job in these rooftop 5 team battles is to occupy the strongest enemy while his teammates jump the other guys 2v1 and come help him 

Luffy is at the stage where he can occupy anyone in a 1 v1. That’s why rooftop 5 don’t need a 6th member, which was I was disagreeing with.

regardless of how Luffy vs an admiral would go, the other 2v1 fights would end first



Amol said:


> Do you think Zoro legion would agree with you that Luffy mid diffs Zoro?



also I just wanna say I don’t care what the legion or anyone else thinks, I make my tier lists based on only what I think


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## Amol (Oct 29, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> nah I don’t think Luffy can beat two rooftop 5 members at once
> 
> Luffy’s job in these rooftop 5 team battles is to occupy the strongest enemy while *his teammates jump the other guys 2v1 and come help him*
> 
> ...


Bruh they are not going to be in any condition to help anyone.

Just look how battered they became in just middle of fight.
Luffy had gotten knocked out twice.
Big Mom was about to end Kid even Law interfered and vice versa.
Zoro literally had all bones crushed.
You better believe Admirals also have combo attacks. They have far more experience of working together.

I don't even think Law and Kid can beat Big Mom but even if they did, they will be at death's door.  They ain't going to be in any condition to fight anyone else.

As Apoo said in this chapter, winner of this war is not going to be in any condition to celebrate.

So Admiral that is fighting Luffy defeats him and helps other defeat their opponents. Not that other Admirals actually need any help tbh tbf.


A Optimistic said:


> also I just wanna say I don’t care what the legion or anyone else thinks, I make my tier lists based on only what I think


A Optimistic openly going against Zoro legion.


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## A Optimistic (Oct 29, 2021)

Amol said:


> Bruh they are not going to be in any condition to help anyone.



we shall see after big mom vs kidd/law goes bro. I got faith in the new generation


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## Kroczilla (Oct 29, 2021)

The admirals take this. This chapter certainly didn't do much to change that outcome


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## Amol (Oct 29, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> we shall see after big mom vs kidd/law goes bro. I got faith in the new generation


It is one thing that you think Law and Kid can beat a Yonkou.

It is another thing that you think they can beat her with some strength to spare.  

That narratively makes no sense. 

I am willing to bet that if we get a full fight between Big Mom and these two with Big Mom losing, Law and Kid won't be able to even walk by the end. 

Not that I even believe that they can beat her.


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## El Hit (Oct 29, 2021)

Admirals have not shown their awakening and already have problemátic aoe like yasakani no magatama and  ryuzei kazan. What Will kid do btw, all His attacks are done by touching the target, bunch of Wrestling moves and touching the oponent ti Magnetize him, good luck touching aokiji after what hapened to jozu   
Good luck tagging kizaru when they have problems doing the same to big mom, the slow tanky yonko that was judoed by jinbe and rolled by Robin.  zoro Is their only hope.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## A Optimistic (Oct 29, 2021)

Amol said:


> It is one thing that you think Law and Kid can beat a Yonkou.
> 
> It is another thing that you think they can beat her with some strength to spare.
> 
> ...



nah I don’t mean they can beat her and have strength to spare

but they can win, be tired on the floor, and then get back up later on after resting for a bit

a fight between Luffy and Akainu will last some time, don’t you think?

we’ve seen many fighters rest and get up back later on. Several examples in Wano alone


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## lightcrowler (Oct 29, 2021)

Current RT5 against C3 could go either way tbh.
Luffy in base is keeping up with Hybrid Kaido, and Zoro AP scared Kaidos scales, something only the top tier Samurai Oden was able to do.

Yes, Admirals are more tricky and are harder to hit, but so are the RT5. Luffy evadet Kizarus lasers even before his timeskip powerup and you can bet your ass that with future sight he’s even harder to hit.

Zoro needs only one Asura attack to land and whichever Admiral receives the hit will be in no condition to keep fighting for much longer, and with Law in the group it’s hard to imagine them not doing some combination move for a surprise attack to land.

Reactions: Like 2 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Kishido (Oct 29, 2021)

Please come down people.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## El Hit (Oct 29, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> nah I don’t mean they can beat her and have strength to spare
> 
> but they can win, be tired on the floor, and then get back up later on after resting for a bit
> 
> ...


good luck resting in lava

Reactions: Funny 3 | Winner 1


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## Quipchaque (Oct 29, 2021)

All 5 are too much for the admirals imo. Right now Luffy, Zoro, Kid and Law are already fighting Kaido, Big Mom and King which for all intents and purposes is a pretty comparable team imo. If we add Killer to that they should edge it.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Oct 29, 2021)

If it’s preskip they have a shot


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## Fel1x (Oct 29, 2021)

El Hit said:


> Admirals have not shown their awakening and already have problemátic aoe like yasakani no magatama and  ryuzei kazan. What Will kid do btw, all His attacks are done by touching the target, bunch of Wrestling moves and touching the oponent ti Magnetize him, good luck touching aokiji after what hapened to jozu
> Good luck tagging kizaru when they have problems doing the same to big mom, the slow tanky yonko that was judoed by jinbe and rolled by Robin.  zoro Is their only hope.


who said their aoe is not awakening ability?

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## El Hit (Oct 29, 2021)

Fel1x said:


> who said their aoe is not awakening ability?


Punk hazard got new volcanoes on Akainus half and ice mountains on Aokijis side, the weather is afected for years too. His aoe in the war was just Lava fists that erupted from his body and fell into people, Aokiji was just freezing water, the floor or making weapons. This hypes the yonko too btw, we have to see big mom's and kaido's awakening and BB will probably use two.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Freechoice (Oct 29, 2021)

lightcrowler said:


> *Zoro needs only one Asura attack to land and whichever Admiral receives the hit will be in no condition to keep fighting for much longer*, and with Law in the group it’s hard to imagine them not doing some combination move for a surprise attack to land.


Holy shit the combination of deluded Zoro wank and C3 underrating makes my head spin

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3 | Winner 1 | Disagree 1


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## convict (Oct 29, 2021)

If anything this chapter makes me favor C3 even more. I am sure the 2 will show more soon enough that may change things.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fel1x (Oct 29, 2021)

El Hit said:


> Punk hazard got new volcanoes on Akainus half and ice mountains on Aokijis side, the weather is afected for years too. His aoe in the war was just Lava fists that erupted from his body and fell into people, Aokiji was just freezing water, the floor or making weapons. This hypes the yonko too btw, we have to see big mom's and kaido's awakening and BB will probably use two.


well, I think probably this wasn’t their awakening. cause we have too see something new from them. they have to upgrade to give Final War M3 some serious diff
as for Kaido and BM they might not have awakening. and its ok. they are still top2 of the verse now

Reactions: Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Kamisori (Oct 29, 2021)

Freechoice said:


> Holy shit the combination of deluded Zoro wank and C3 underrating makes my head spin


Some people think Ashura can one shot everyone not named Kaido smh.


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## TheOmega (Oct 29, 2021)

Amatérasu’s Son said:


> But Luffy was able to evade lasers derived directly from Kizaru's powers with normal Kenbunshoku. Furthermore space warping is faster than light, and warped space can bend light. Inside the Room, Law can make Kizaru miss.
> 
> The hiearchy is definitely Yonkos more powerful than Admirals. But Luffy being able to fight Kaido doesn't automatically place him above the Admirals either. Luffy has spike strength, but not sustained strength. It's like Goku using Kaio Ken, he can raise his power to that level and fight convincingly. The Admirals and Yonko have stamina. They can hold that level for an extended period of time. Luffy can't truly claim his spot at that level permanently until he can hold that strength for days on end.


I agree that Law can somewhat defend himself against Kizaru but we're not talking about a robot shooting a single laser, we're talking about living breathing light man who can move and attack at lightspeed and can also nuke an entire area with lasers and blasts.

Where is Law going to be safe if he uses room? Kizaru can literally shoot that whole shit up. This ain't gonna be like when they were mad far and underwater in that sub. This is gonna be a cakewalk for Kizaru to light him up.

All that whack a moleing that Law's style uses is gonna wear him out before he even damages a Kizaru who can just snipe spam from the air


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## Furinji Saiga (Oct 29, 2021)

Akainu solo's.

Reactions: Like 1


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## arv993 (Oct 29, 2021)

Pashanim said:


> Some people think Ashura can one shot everyone not named Kaido smh.


Yea no shit it does more damage to anyone below kaido and big mom’s durability. It would be a severe injury.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1 | Dislike 1


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Oct 29, 2021)

Furinji Saiga said:


> Akainu solo's.


Ridiculous


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## Fujitora (Oct 30, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Not sure how this chapter is supposed to change anything. BM, the *weakest Yonko* is wrecking 2 of the RT5 with minimal effort


Gotta love how you say it as if its a fact, but please don't conflate your opinion for something like that.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mrdude (Oct 30, 2021)

I wouldn't judge their fight right now to the C3. It's an entirely different kind of fight if the SN were to fight the Admirals. It certainly wouldn't go the way it is now. Big Mom and Kaido are freaks of nature in that it takes a lot just to hurt them. 

The whole reason why their efforts seems so futile is because of this and it's making their performance looks worse than it actually is.

Most of their attacks would do a great deal of damage if it lands on any Admiral.

Reactions: Like 1


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## rext1 (Oct 30, 2021)

Aokiji and Akainu could fight each other and the blowback from their awakenings/attacks would kill Killer, Law and Kid.

Only real hitters like current Luffy and Zoro will be useful. But they would eventually be overwhelmed and defeated due to numerical disadvantage.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## bil02 (Oct 30, 2021)

C3 wins even post Wano.

As of now,there is no way the strongest military force of the WG is losing to a team composed of guys with no great feats like Kid(sorry buddy) and killer.

Coordinated attacks and Aoe Awakening walls everyone here except Luffy and maybe law.


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## Strobacaxi (Oct 30, 2021)

~Flow~ said:


> Gotta love how you say it as if its a fact, but please don't conflate your opinion for something like that.


It's the portrayal Oda has given us

Reactions: Agree 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Oct 30, 2021)

~Flow~ said:


> Gotta love how you say it as if its a fact, but please don't conflate your opinion for something like that.


I don't know how bm has been portrayed as the weakest yonko lol

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Amatérasu’s Son (Oct 30, 2021)

TheOmega said:


> I agree that Law can somewhat defend himself against Kizaru but we're not talking about a robot shooting a single laser, we're talking about living breathing light man who can move and attack at lightspeed and can also nuke an entire area with lasers and blasts.


As Luffy is now, with Future Sight, he'll still know where the shots are going and be able to not be there. But the dynamics of such a fight will be excellent. Like against Katakuri there's no room for error. The stakes get amped to the moon if Kizaru also has Future Sight which would give him the edge in almost any situation. Him being a living breathing light man is irrelevant because if we treat that realistically he has the most powerful devil fruit and is unbeatable except by someone who can control space or darkness, which isn't the case.

Even back then though, Kenbunshoku would allow him to perceive the attack and move, it's just that the quality of the attack will change greatly.



TheOmega said:


> Where is Law going to be safe if he uses room? Kizaru can literally shoot that whole shit up. This ain't gonna be like when they were mad far and underwater in that sub. This is gonna be a cakewalk for Kizaru to light him up.
> 
> All that whack a moleing that Law's style uses is gonna wear him out before he even damages a Kizaru who can just snipe spam from the air


That's not what I'm saying. Law can warp space and freely adjust anything that enters his room. Meaning he if he's using his powers correctly he should be able to Kylo Ren pause any lasers that enter his Room before they hit, or redirect them elsewhere.



All things being comparable in the Haki front obviously.

Law trying to out-teleport Borsalino is going to wear him down ultra quick, no doubt, like Luffy he doesn't have the gas tank for that kind of fight. Law actually damaging Kizaru will certainly be more challenging, just like this fight.

We haven't even conceived of more advanced Admiral Abilities. What if Kizaru's Pika Pika no Mi's awakening is he goes ultraviolet and become invisible? (stealth vs stealth match with Sanji, Chopper would be able to see him and tell everyone what happened (reindeer can see UV)) and so on.


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## Corax (Oct 30, 2021)

C3. Even if Law+Kidd+Killer can take out 1 top tier lvl. character Zoro and Luffy aren't enough to solo another 2 on their own.


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## arv993 (Oct 31, 2021)

Corax said:


> C3. Even if Law+Kidd+Killer can take out 1 top tier lvl. character Zoro and Luffy aren't enough to solo another 2 on their own.



Luffy can stalemate or beat 1, kid and law beat another, Zoro and killer can stalemate or beat 1. This is a given since kizaru isn’t as strong as big mom and kaido and honestly neither are aokiji and akainu.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Gokou08 (Oct 31, 2021)

arv993 said:


> Luffy can stalemate or beat 1, kid and law beat another, Zoro and killer can stalemate or beat 1. This is a given since kizaru isn’t as strong as big mom and kaido and honestly neither are aokiji and akainu.


Zoro who is struggling with King isn't beating any Admiral with Killer like that. 

Kidd and Law does have the power to either stalemate or beat one, but we have to see the conclusion of their fight against BM. 

Luffy vs Akainu is a grueling battle but I'm favoring Akainu.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TheOmega (Oct 31, 2021)

RT5 gonna dodge this on a rooftop?



Get real yall

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Kamisori (Oct 31, 2021)

Still wondering how Law's submarine could dodge Yasakani no Magatama lmao.


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## TheOmega (Oct 31, 2021)

Pashanim said:


> Still wondering how Law's submarine could dodge Yasakani no Magatama lmao.


The combined D luck of Low & Loofy


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## Strobacaxi (Oct 31, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> I don't know how bm has been portrayed as the weakest yonko lol


First to be a villain
Attack stopped by G3 and Sanji (LUL)
Clowned by Jimbei
Clowned by Nami
Clowned by Brook
Clowned by Chopper
Clowned by Franky
Clowned by Robin
Clowned by Jimbei (again)

Should I keep going?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## ShadoLord (Oct 31, 2021)

lightcrowler said:


> Zoro needs only one Asura attack to land and whichever Admiral receives the hit will be in no condition to keep fighting for much longer


I both love and hate this.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Mihawk (Oct 31, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> I don't know how bm has been portrayed as the weakest yonko lol


Because Shanks Kaido and Blackbeard all have better portrayal in the grand scheme of things lol.

Adding to what @Strobacaxi has already stated, Big Mom also just doesn’t have the same importance as the above 3, even if she’s pretty much equal to them in strength.

Only way I can see her not being the weakest one is if Current Blackbeard<EoS BB


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## GreenEggsAHam (Oct 31, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> First to be a villain
> Attack stopped by G3 and Sanji (LUL)
> Clowned by Jimbei
> Clowned by Nami
> ...




She's grouped alongside Kaido strength wise,(Whos stronger then shanks)  
I mean we get shes clusmy

And her attack getting stopped by g3 and sanji isn't worse then getting your arm bit-off by a seaking that luffy one shotted later on.


Mihawk said:


> Kaido


Shanks has more plot relevance, but what portrayal strength wise?

He's still in the story to get trash'd by BB or Have a moment with luffy


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## arv993 (Oct 31, 2021)

Gokou08 said:


> Zoro who is struggling with King isn't beating any Admiral with Killer like that.
> 
> Kidd and Law does have the power to either stalemate or beat one, but we have to see the conclusion of their fight against BM.
> 
> Luffy vs Akainu is a grueling battle but I'm favoring Akainu.


King pushed him once big deal, Zoro has insane AP which is way above Marco. He is a YC1+ and killer is a YC2ish they are beating or stalemating an admiral.

Yea let’s see how Kidd and law are I don’t think they will be immobile after using their awakening but let’s see.

Are we talking about mf akainu idk where current akainu stands now but if it’s  mf akainu who is about equal to other admirals or slightly above them vs sky splitter luffy this is an extreme diff battle which means essentially either person can’t contribute much after the battle.


So both sides are stalemating and I think kid and law are the difference here, also matchup wise it’s better since it’s easier to hurt aokiji or kizaru vs big mom so law and kidd’s attacks will in general do more damage subtracting more from their HP.


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## A Optimistic (Oct 31, 2021)

Zoro said:


> I both love and hate this.



must be tough being a zoro and admiral fan at the same time huh

Reactions: Funny 2


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## arv993 (Oct 31, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> First to be a villain
> Attack stopped by G3 and Sanji (LUL)
> Clowned by Jimbei
> Clowned by Nami
> ...


Being clumsy doesn’t mean you’re not strong, luffy got defeated by Caesar when he was way above him in strength, luffy is like big mom who when not serious has some embarrassing moments and big mom was never in danger so effectively those things do not matter.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Gokou08 (Oct 31, 2021)

arv993 said:


> Being clumsy doesn’t mean you’re not strong, luffy got defeated by Caesar when he was way above him in strength, luffy is like big mom who when not serious has some embarrassing moments and big mom was never in danger so effectively those things do not matter.


There's a point in that, but Caesar has a good DF to caught people of guard and he was PH antagonist. 

Meanwhile BM was clowned by people far inferior to her.

That's my opinion though.


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## arv993 (Oct 31, 2021)

Gokou08 said:


> There's a point in that, but Caesar has a good DF to caught people of guard and he was PH antagonist.
> 
> Meanwhile BM was clowned by people far inferior to her.
> 
> That's my opinion though.


Have you ever met people who were very competent in one field but a complete doofus in other aspects of life that is essentially big mom.

If akainu or aokiji had her natural buffs they would have overthrown all her foes.

Luffy took stupid damage from ulti too he makes a lot of errors to be fair.


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## Strobacaxi (Oct 31, 2021)

arv993 said:


> Being clumsy doesn’t mean you’re not strong, luffy got defeated by Caesar when he was way above him in strength, luffy is like big mom who when not serious has some embarrassing moments and big mom was never in danger so effectively those things do not matter.


No one is saying she's not strong. No one's saying she's not almost as strong as the other Yonkos. But her portrayal is clearly of the weakest of the 4.

Just look at how everyone is ignoring her. CP0 doesn't talk about her, no one thinks about her, only Kaido matters.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## arv993 (Oct 31, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> No one is saying she's not strong. No one's saying she's not almost as strong as the other Yonkos. But her portrayal is clearly of the weakest of the 4.
> 
> Just look at how everyone is ignoring her. CP0 doesn't talk about her, no one thinks about her, only Kaido matters.


That doesn’t mean she’s the weakest but the most incompetent. She’s literally equal to kaido, we can discuss effectiveness but even there, her territories and power accumulation has been comparable to kaido.

 But yea she messes up a lot which can limit her politically but outside of that she is literally stalemated kaido so her being called the weakest makes no sense. Since we don’t know if Bb can stalemate kaido.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Oct 31, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> No one is saying she's not strong. No one's saying she's not almost as strong as the other Yonkos. But her portrayal is clearly of the weakest of the 4.
> 
> Just look at how everyone is ignoring her. *CP0 doesn't talk about her*, no one thinks about her, only Kaido matters.


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## Perrin (Oct 31, 2021)

Fel1x said:


> so after all this feats are you still positive RT5 can't defeat C3?


Yes

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Fel1x (Oct 31, 2021)

bil02 said:


> C3 wins even post Wano.
> 
> As of now,there is no way the strongest military force of the WG is losing to a team composed of guys with no great feats like Kid(sorry buddy) and killer.
> 
> Coordinated attacks and Aoe Awakening walls everyone here except Luffy and maybe law.


well, im pretty ok about people saying C3>current RT5. ok, may be. after all C3 are tricky af and all legit top tiers, unlike RT5 with only Luffy being confirmed by feats top tier right now

but post Wano? really?
all RT5 members, yes even Zoro and Killer will be legit top tiers. and I fucking can't see 3 top tiers winning against 5. with fucking Law who can save everyone's asses from lethal hits whole fight, with fucking Luffy who already is better at every type of Haki than C3, with Kidd who has a nasty tanking+restricting abilities and with Zoro who hits hard enough to even scar fucking Kaido


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## Perrin (Nov 1, 2021)

Fel1x said:


> well, im pretty ok about people saying C3>current RT5. ok, may be. after all C3 are tricky af and all legit top tiers, unlike RT5 with only Luffy being confirmed by feats top tier right now
> 
> but post Wano? really?
> all RT5 members, yes even Zoro and Killer will be legit top tiers. and I fucking can't see 3 top tiers winning against 5. with fucking Law who can save everyone's asses from lethal hits whole fight, with fucking Luffy who already is better at every type of Haki than C3, with Kidd who has a nasty tanking+restricting abilities and with Zoro who hits hard enough to even scar fucking Kaido


I’m glad I’m not the only one who thinks Hawkins is the limit to surpass to achieve top tier status.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Fel1x (Nov 1, 2021)

Perrin said:


> I’m glad I’m not the only one who thinks Hawkins is the limit to surpass to achieve top tier status.


im glad you already know how Wano will end and know that Hawkins is the last Killer’s fight


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## Perrin (Nov 1, 2021)

Fel1x said:


> im glad you already know how Wano will end and know that Hawkins is the last Killer’s fight


Here to inform


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