# Bijuu-sage mode Naruto vs Full powered (Healthy) Nagato



## Miyoshi (Mar 17, 2014)

*Location: VOTE 
Starting Distance: 100m 
Intel: Manga 
Intent: To Kill 
Mindset: IC 
Restrictions: None

Let the games begin!
*


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## Joakim3 (Mar 17, 2014)

BSM Naruto can low diff Nagato and that's being conservative


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## Cognitios (Mar 17, 2014)

Naruto creates a ring of clones surrounding Nagato, similar to what he did with Kimimaro
Then all clones attack with a mixture of Wind Release Rasenshuriken and Bijuu Bombs
I'd like to see Nagato absorb that


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## Kai (Mar 17, 2014)

Senjutsu Bijuudama ends Nagato instantly.


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## Rocky (Mar 17, 2014)

Nagato receives a Rasenshuriken to the back in a flash of light. Naruto posses a combination of speed & power that Nagato hasn't shown capable of handling, and that will cost him in the early stages. The starting distance is irrelevant; Nagato attempting a war of ranged techniques with Bijuu Sage Naruto will just get him slaughtered harder.


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## Psp123789 (Mar 17, 2014)

Preta was the only thing Nagato had that would stop Naruto and now that he can bypass that Naruto rapes easily.


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## ARGUS (Mar 17, 2014)

Naruto in BSM is too much for nagato 
He wins low/mid diff at most


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 17, 2014)

Does Nagato have mobility, OP?
Even if Nagato didn't have mobility, I think people are underestimating him.

If anything, Naruto is going to die when Senpou: Bijuudama gets countered by CST.
Mind you, Nagato's CST is stronger than the version that Tendou used.


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## Bonly (Mar 17, 2014)

Nagato may be strong but he's not strong enough to beat BM Naruto let alone a BSM Naruto imo, Naruto has this.


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## Psp123789 (Mar 17, 2014)

King Itachi said:


> Does Nagato have mobility, OP?
> Even if Nagato didn't have mobility, I think people are underestimating him.
> 
> If anything, Naruto is going to die when Senpou: Bijuudama gets countered by CST.
> Mind you, Nagato's CST is stronger than the version that Tendou used.


The worst thing Nagato could do is use CST since Naruto could tank it and it would cause Nagato to lose his deva powers for a while, leaving him helpless before Naruto. That's even if Nagato can get off CST before Naruto kills him.


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## ARGUS (Mar 17, 2014)

Bsm naruto is the worst matchup for nagato 
Since his sm completely nullifies preta and naruto can spam SM powered TBB more often than nagato can spam ST to deflect those TBB 
On top of that naruto can tank the TBB that nagato might be able to deflect whereas nagato is killed if he gets hit by a mountain buster
CST is only useful if naruto has thrown over 10 TBB so that it can backfire those TBB but even then with narutos speed and durability nagato is screwed 
CT is obliterated by TBB as well


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 17, 2014)

Psp123789 said:


> The worst thing Nagato could do is use CST since Naruto could tank it and it would cause Nagato to lose his deva powers for a while, leaving him helpless before Naruto. That's even if Nagato can get off CST before Naruto kills him.



I was referring to the fact that CST would detonate Senpou: Bijuudama and kill Naruto.


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## Kyu (Mar 17, 2014)

Naruto launches _Senpō: Chō Bijūdama_ or _Senpō: Renzoku Bijūdama_ at Nagato's anorexic ass and calls it a day. 



> I was referring to the fact that CST would detonate Senpou: Bijuudama and kill Naruto



Biju can survive their own Bijudama as demonstrated by Bee. In a lesser form he withstood the Juubi's lazer. Biju Sage Naruto's durability is further enhanced by SM. 

He'd likely survive *if* Nagato could pull that off before getting his shit split.


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## Psp123789 (Mar 17, 2014)

King Itachi said:


> I was referring to the fact that CST would detonate Senpou: Bijuudama and kill Naruto.


Naruto fires off super TBB's in seconds. He can fire off normal tbb's instantly. The bombs will already be flying towards Nagato before he even uses CST. Even if he gets it off Naruto tanked the juubi's laser. I'm sure he could survive the damage from his TBB, especially since they'll be a good distance away from him when they detonate.


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## egressmadara (Mar 17, 2014)

Naruto would blitz and rape in all manners.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 17, 2014)

Psp123789 said:


> Naruto fires off super TBB's in seconds. He can fire off normal tbb's instantly. The bombs will already be flying towards Nagato before he even uses CST. Even if he gets it off Naruto tanked the juubi's laser. I'm sure he could survive the damage from his TBB, especially since they'll be a good distance away from him when they detonate.



A few questions:

- Do you think Nagato is going to stand there and let Naruto fire said Bijuudama?
- Why do I get the impression that you think Nagato can't use CST instantly?
- You actually believe Naruto would be unscathed from the combination of CST and his own Senpou: Bijuudama?


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## Rocky (Mar 17, 2014)

King Itachi said:


> I was referring to the fact that CST would detonate Senpou: Bijuudama and kill Naruto.




I doubt Nagato can quickly build up Chakra for a Shinra Tensei powerful enough to detonate Naruto's Bijuudama before it's fired. 

Nevertheless, that isn't Naruto's best option anyway because of Preta Path. Senpou: Shunshin all the way. Nagato isn't capable of reacting to something like that (or at least he doesn't have the feats for it), so that way he wouldn't be quick enough to throw up Preta Path.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 17, 2014)

Rocky said:


> I doubt Nagato can quickly build up Chakra for a Shinra Tensei powerful enough to detonate Naruto's Bijuudama before it's fired.
> 
> Nevertheless, that isn't Naruto best option anyway because of Preta Path. Senpou: Shunshin all the way. Nagato isn't capable of reacting to something like that (or at least he doesn't have the feats for it), so that way he wouldn't be quick enough to throw up Preta Path.



I had the same argument with multiple people in the past, Rocky.
ATastyMuffin, Joakim3 and Munboy...

Nagato is able to use CST instantly, especially if it's his own body.


Regarding the other part, Nagato arguably has better sensing feats than anyone in the manga - bar Juubi Jins and Naruto, perhaps - but I agree that Senpou: Shunshin would give immobile Nagato some trouble; it shouldn't be enough to overwhelm him, though.

Naruto's "blitz" arguments are baseless, in my opinion.

I'm trying to see if the OP was referring to immobile/mobile Nagato, though.


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## Nikushimi (Mar 17, 2014)

Itachi solos.


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## Psp123789 (Mar 17, 2014)

King Itachi said:


> A few questions:
> 
> - Do you think Nagato is going to stand there and let Naruto fire said Bijuudama?
> - Why do I get the impression that you think Nagato can't use CST instantly?
> - You actually believe Naruto would be unscathed from the combination of CST and his own Senpou: Bijuudama?



- Distance is 100 meters, what is Nagato gonna do when Naruto can fire them off instantly? CST and ST may detonate the TBB but he can just fire off another during the interval.
- I never said he couldn't, I thought you said he could detonate Naruto's TBB in his face with it.
- His TBB wouldn't be in his face so he wouldn't need to deal with the full force of the explosion and he can grab the ground with chakra arms and anchor himself into the ground to prevent from being sent back. He should be fine after that. This is also assuming that Naruto even decides to fire off a TBB in the first place.


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## Ersa (Mar 17, 2014)

BSM Naruto wipes him off the map with Senpou Bijuudama Renzaku.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 17, 2014)

Psp123789 said:


> - Distance is 100 meters, what is Nagato gonna do when Naruto can fire them off instantly?



Use BT and throw Naruto around like a rag doll...
That 's able to disrupt Naruto's movement and sense of direction. 



> - I never said he couldn't, I thought you said he detonate Naruto's TBB in his face with it.



If CST were to be used - while Naruto's charging the large Bijuudama that matched 5 Bijuu - it would detonate in his face and inflict serious damage, if not kill him.



> - His TBB wouldn't be in his face so he wouldn't need to deal with the full force of the explosion and he can grab the ground with chakra arms and anchor himself into the ground to prevent from being sent back.



And?

It still doesn't mean Naruto is going to walk out of said attack unscathed.
...and anchoring himself into the ground is the worst thing he could do; he'd be in the middle of everything. 



> He should be fine after that. This is also assuming that Naruto even decides to fire off a TBB in the first place.



Okay. It makes Nagato's job easier, then.


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## Fiiction (Mar 17, 2014)

King Itachi said:


> A few questions:
> 
> - Do you think Nagato is going to stand there and let Naruto fire said Bijuudama?
> - Why do I get the impression that you think Nagato can't use CST instantly?
> - You actually believe Naruto would be unscathed from the combination of CST and his own Senpou: Bijuudama?



Give up, your argument is futile. Nagato can't beat BSM Naruto no chance at all. So just stop wasting your time and go have fun or something.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 17, 2014)

Fiiction said:


> Give up, your argument is futile. Nagato can't beat BSM Naruto no chance at all. So just stop wasting your time and go have fun or something.



Excuse me?

I'm trying to argue that Naruto isn't going to have such an easy time against Nagato, and little errors can set him back rather quickly. 

Maybe you should try to be productive in this thread, rather than making stupid remarks.


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## Fiiction (Mar 17, 2014)

@king itachi. BSM Naruto > Nagato. Mid-difficulty at most. Preta was his best bet, and while Deva can do some damage, it will only stall time.


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## Psp123789 (Mar 17, 2014)

King Itachi said:


> Use BT and throw Naruto around like a rag doll...
> That 's able to disrupt Naruto's movement and sense of direction.


Naruto anchors himself into the ground with chakra arms and before Nagato even knows it 3 BSM clones are ripping him apart. Nagato has never used BT on such a large chakra construct and has never BT'd someone through chakra constructs. 




> If CST were to be used - while Naruto's charging the large Bijuudama that matched 5 Bijuu - it would detonate in his face and inflict serious damage, if not kill him.


Where's your proof CST can even detonate the super TBB? Besides Naruto fires it off in seconds. If he sees the land in front of him flying around he can simply stop charging it.





> And?
> 
> It still doesn't mean Naruto is going to walk out of said attack unscathed.
> ...and anchoring himself into the ground is the worst thing he could do; he'd be in the middle of everything.


Naruto blocks anything and everything that comes at him with his tails. Even if Naruto gets pushed around a bit he will still be fine.





> Okay. It makes Nagato's job easier, then.


 If Naruto doesn't use his TBB then he tanks CST without question and slaughters Nagato while he cant use his powers. Also since when did Nagato start off with CST?


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 17, 2014)

Psp123789 said:


> Naruto anchors himself into the ground with chakra arms and before Nagato even knows it 3 BSM clones are ripping him apart.



Said Bunshin and Naruto's summons are going to be fighting Cerberus, and its weakness happens to be Amaterasu; they get trolled by the armada in the end.

By the way, Naruto doesn't fight as intelligently as you make it seem; he essentially notes his stupidity in the fight against Nagato.



> Nagato has never used BT on such a large chakra construct and has never BT'd someone through chakra constructs.



And? 

Naruto has never used BSM clones... while under pressure and anchoring himself into the ground.

Does it mean he's incapable of doing that? No, that's not the case,



> Where's your proof CST can even detonate the super TBB? Besides Naruto fires it off in seconds. If he sees the land in front of him flying around he can simply stop charging it.



That's common sense. 
Why would I need to prove that CST is capable of detonating Bijuudama?

Similarly, Nagato is able to use CST instantly, and the ensuing blast would damage Naruto more than Nagato. 



> Naruto blocks anything and everything that comes at him with his tails. Even if Naruto gets pushed around a bit he will still be fine.





The intense heat and Senjutsu from the aforementioned Bijuudama - in combination with debris and CST's blast - are going to tear through Naruto's cloak, and his little tails aren't going to prevent that. 

Something akin to that blast is magnitudes stronger than Juubi's laser (incomplete)...



> If Naruto doesn't use his TBB then he tanks CST without question and slaughters Nagato while he cant use his powers. Also mindset is IC since when did Nagato start off with CST?



I only stated that Nagato would use CST if Bijuudama is used, and the former would come out victorious in that case. 

We also have to consider Nagato's strength with the technique, as he'd used it through Tendou beforehand. 

Don't jump to conclusions, pal...
Either way, it's gonna come down to those techniques.


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## Rocky (Mar 17, 2014)

King Itachi said:


> Nagato is able to use CST instantly, especially if it's his own body.




No Justu can be used instantly. You must first build up the necessary amount of Chakra for the technique. That's why Amaterasu, despite being an "unavoidable and instant" Justu, could be sensed. The build-up of Chakra is still takes time. Building up for a village sized Shinra Tensei (fan-dubbed "CST") will most definitely _not _be instant. 



> Regarding the other part, Nagato arguably has better sensing feats than anyone in the manga - bar Juubi Jins and Naruto, perhaps - but I agree that Senpou: Shunshin would give immobile Nagato some trouble; it shouldn't be enough to overwhelm him, though.




There's no difference between mobile & immobile Nagato when it comes to Naruto's flicker. Unless you're saying Nagato can physically avoid Naruto with healthy legs (he can't), then Nagato will be relying on a Rinnegan defense like Shinra Tensei, which can be used with or without mobility.

For Nagato to react here, we'd have to say he is massively superior in reflexes to Mangeyou Sasuke if he's to keep up. v2 Ei's speed wasn't quite enough to overwhelm Sauce, and you seem to be saying that it would be similar with Naruto & Nagato here, correct? Naruto will pressure Nagato, but Nagato should be_ just_ quick enough to mount a defense, like Sauce did with Enton?

If that's the case, then – since BSM Naruto is much faster than Max Raikage – Nagato must trump MS Sauce in speed & reflexes by quite a bit. Personally, I don't think that's the case. He doesn't have the feats. Again, the "greatest sensing ever" didn't help him against Itachi's Totsuka blade, or his Susano'o karate chop for that matter.



> Naruto's "blitz" arguments are baseless, in my opinion.




I highly disagree. Naruto's Bijuubomb 5-way reflection is one of the greatest flicker feats in the Manga, and that was without Senjustu. Nagato's greatest reflex feat is dodging Rasenshuriken...


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## sanninme rikudo (Mar 17, 2014)

I smell underestimation!!


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## Ersa (Mar 17, 2014)

There is no underestimation when Joakim admits Nagato has no chance here.

Nagato is borderline top tier but he's facing someone who is eons faster then V2 Ei, has enough durability to survive a Juubi beam, who shits out blasts that erase mountain ranges on a regular basis and has clones that can fire FRS/Bijuudama Rasengans. He is outgunned, outsped, out muscled and outclassed.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 17, 2014)

Ersatz said:


> There is no underestimation when Joakim admits Nagato has no chance here.
> 
> Nagato is borderline top tier but he's facing someone who is eons faster then V2 Ei, has enough durability to survive a Juubi beam, who shits out blasts that erase mountain ranges on a regular basis and has clones that can fire FRS/Bijuudama Rasengans. He is outgunned, outsped, out muscled and outclassed.



I can say the same thing. Lol
There's major underestimation when one of Nagato's haters is defending him.

I'll respond to your post later, Rocky.
There are some things I've got to do.


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## Trojan (Mar 17, 2014)

Naruto wins.

With that being said, I think people underestimate Nagato severely to be honest. U_U


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## Psp123789 (Mar 17, 2014)

King Itachi said:


> Said Bunshin and Naruto's summons are going to be fighting Cerberus, and its weakness happens to be Amaterasu; they get trolled by the armada in the end.


Naruto's rasenshruiken took cerberus out of the fight for a few when he fought edo Nagato. 1 clone + all 4 boss summons is more than enough to stall that summon long enough for Naruto to kill Nagato



> By the way, Naruto doesn't fight as intelligently as you make it seem; he essentially notes his stupidity in the fight against Nagato.


And Nagato doesn't use CST at the beginning of his fights. Besides Pein fight sage Naruto gave some perfect examples of Naruto's tactical genius.





> And?
> 
> Naruto has never used BSM clones... while under pressure and anchoring himself into the ground.
> 
> Does it mean he's incapable of doing that? No, that's not the case,


You're suggesting that Nagato can BT Naruto through a chakra construct or BT the chakra construct which sounds way more illogical than Naruto creating clones since Nagato has never done something even near what you are suggesting.



> That's common sense.
> Why would I need to prove that CST is capable of detonating Bijuudama?
> 
> Similarly, Nagato is able to use CST instantly, and the ensuing blast would damage Naruto more than Nagato.


I dunno maybe because it has never nearly done such a thing. It's more likely it would be deflected or repelled. Even if it can it will be detonating far away from Naruto since the TBB would have already traveled a large distance, it probably would be near Nagato actually.




> The intense heat and Senjutsu from the aforementioned Bijuudama - in combination with debris and CST's blast - are going to tear through Naruto's cloak, and his little tails aren't going to prevent that.


Again the TBB will be detonating away from Naruto if he fires it or Naruto can simply just stop charging the TBB. The debris will do nothing to Naruto. You're overestimating Nagato's abilities. 



> Something akin to that blast is *magnitudes stronger than Juubi's laser (incomplete)...*


That's a big assumption to make considering the blast was destroying mountain ranges and overpowering 9 TBB's.






> I only stated that Nagato would use CST if Bijuudama is used, and the former would come out victorious in that case.


He actually wouldn't tho. You keep overestimating Nagato's abilities. If Naruto fires off a TBB and Nagato uses CST the TBB blast will detonating away from Naruto and Naruto just tanks the rest. This is also assuming Naruto doesn't just blitz Nagato from the start with his clones. Or that Nagato doesn't die in the explosion.



> We also have to consider Nagato's strength with the technique, as he'd used it through Tendou beforehand.


It may be a lot stronger or it may be a bit stronger. We don't know. From what we have seen the CST tendou used will not kill Naruto.




> Don't jump to conclusions, pal...
> Either way, it's gonna come down to those techniques.


Not really as Naruto has many other ways to kill Nagato like frog song or chou odama rasenshuriken.


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## Ersa (Mar 17, 2014)

Naruto fires a  Senpou TBB. 

Nagato repels with CST.

ST is on cooldown, a senjutsu amped higher form of a Naruto that sped past V2 Ei appears behind Nagato and breaks his neck with Frog Fu at 300km/hr.


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## Joakim3 (Mar 17, 2014)

New Folder said:


> Naruto wins.
> 
> With that being said, I think people underestimate Nagato severely to be honest. U_U



No one is underestimating Nagato, it's just BSM Naruto is that damn strong and just happens to be able to *perfectly* counter _Fujutsu Kuyin_ (which is the only thing that prevented Nagato from being foddered by BM Naruto)

Nagato has literally has zero shot off winning.... CST can be tanked and at best deactivates Naruto's cloak... which he just reforms, and CT gets blown up _casually_, while Gedo Mazo at _best_ keeps Nagato alive.... what, an extra _minute_?


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## Joakim3 (Mar 17, 2014)

King Itachi said:


> Use BT and throw Naruto around like a rag doll...
> That 's able to disrupt Naruto's movement and sense of direction.



While Nagato's _theoretically_ capable of using BT of that size, he hasn't done it canonically nor IC, so I'll play it safe and say he _can't_

Nothing short of Gedo Mazo physically restraining BSM Naruto (and even thats a stretch) is stoping BSM Naruto from moving wherever the hell he wants too move when he wants to move



King Itachi said:


> If CST were to be used - while Naruto's charging the large Bijuudama that matched 5 Bijuu - it would detonate in his face and inflict serious damage, if not kill him.



Again unless Nagato has Gedo Mazo in front him before hand, all that would do is kill him. CST would detonate the _Senpo: Super Bijudama_ he's be vaporized, while Naruto more than likely would survive it (alight how damaged/undamaged I don't know)



King Itachi said:


> And?
> 
> It still doesn't mean Naruto is going to walk out of said attack unscathed.
> ...and anchoring himself into the ground is the worst thing he could do; he'd be in the middle of everything.



It doesn't matter if he's unscathed or not, Nagato would and will be particles in the wind if Gedo Mazo isn't literally turtling up around him when CST and the _Senpo: Super Bijudama_ clash


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## Trojan (Mar 17, 2014)

Joakim3 said:


> No one is underestimating Nagato, it's just BSM Naruto is that damn strong and just happens to be able to *perfectly* counter _Fujutsu Kuyin_ (which is the only thing that prevented Nagato from being foddered by BM Naruto)
> 
> Nagato has literally has zero shot off winning.... CST can be tanked and at best deactivates Naruto's cloak... which he just reforms, and CT gets blown up _casually_, while Gedo Mazo at _best_ keeps Nagato alive.... what, an extra _minute_?



Having SM is cool and all, but that does not make Preta path useless automatically. Against Pain,
Preta path was able to absorb Naruto's FRS and all of that. Against madara, he was able to absorb Hashi's jutsus (except the dragon) and in fact absorbing Hashi's entire SM


Preta path (the body Nagato use) has less chakra than Nagato himself, so getting overwhelmed by the chakra he absorbed from Naruto *directly * is more likely to happen to him than Nagato himself. Not to mention that path absorbed Naruto's SM at first completely without problems, but Naruto kept absorbing the natural energy which effected that path at that point. 

- Well, that's might depend on how this match is going to be, because if Nagato absorbed Kurama's avatar first for example, won't that make Nagato much stronger as well? Perhaps if he did even several TBBs later won't be enough. U_U
Or if Naruto played it stupid as he did last time against Nagato...etc

anyway, I have to do my work now. So, long story short, I agree that Naruto is stronger, but I don't think it would be an easy fight as people think. U_U


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## Rob (Mar 17, 2014)

Wh-What the fuck is this?  

Does Naruto really stomp that badly? 

Nagato is supposed to be one of the strongest


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## Luftwaffles (Mar 17, 2014)

naruto babyshakes his uzumaki brother


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## Skywalker (Mar 17, 2014)

Naruto dickslaps him at 300km/h, Nagato isn't touching BSM Naruto.


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## Jagger (Mar 18, 2014)

BM Naruto is a better opponent against Nagato considering the latter can still, somewhat, counter Naruto's attacks with his absorption techniques.

However, BSM Naruto is a whole new story.


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## Blu-ray (Mar 18, 2014)

While it's obvious Nagato loses, why does it seem like everyone think he's going to just stand there and get nuked when he has like two techniques that can counter Bijuudama? Preta Path should absorb and Shinra Tensei should deflect no? Even the idea that Nagato gets blitzed seems off when Naruto's speed in Bijuumode has yet to give any top tier trouble.


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## Jagger (Mar 18, 2014)

The problem is Nagato's cooldown.

Naruto doesn't have that problem. Hell, he can easily overwhelm Nagato with Taijutsu if given the chance as the former tossed aside 5 Bijuudama with just punches and that eas before adding Senjutsu to the mix.

With it, he can easily trash Nagato.


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## Jak N Blak (Mar 18, 2014)

Dat Uncle Nagato underestimation.


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## Jagger (Mar 18, 2014)

That moment when Jak N Blak isn't saying Naruto completely anihilates Nagato off the surface of Earth.



Are we wrong? Do we need to completely re-evaluate our lives? What if everything we know is wrong, after all?


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## The Undying (Mar 18, 2014)

Not sure it makes a difference either way, but does the general consensus here concur that BSM Naruto is the KCM/BM transformation _itself_ in Sage Mode or just Senjutsu abilities added alongside? I've seen people debate over it pretty extensively, so I'm just curious.


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## Miyoshi (Mar 18, 2014)

*Wow I wasn't expecting such a one-sided argument. As if I said Naruto vs Iruka. Lol

Anyway I agree. Naruto wins with mid-difficulty. Nagato hits with everything plus the kitchen sink but it just wouldn't be enough. *



The Undying said:


> Not sure it makes a difference either way, but does the general consensus here concur that BSM Naruto is the KCM/BM transformation _itself_ in Sage Mode or just Senjutsu abilities added alongside? I've seen people debate over it pretty extensively, so I'm just curious.



*I'm referring to Naruto in bijuu mode and sage mode.

I'm not sure where your second option came from. Do you have any instances from the manga where senjutsu is just incorporated without sage mode being active?*


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## The Undying (Mar 18, 2014)

Miyoshi said:


> *I'm referring to Naruto in bijuu mode and sage mode.
> 
> I'm not sure where your second option came from. Do you have any instances from the manga where senjutsu is just incorporated without sage mode being active?*




There were some debates over whether Naruto was using Sage Mode _on top_ of Bijuu Mode or if it was just Naruto using Bijuu Mode and Sage Mode simultaneously, side-by-side on top of his base abilities. The difference, ability-wise, is whether the Kurama avatar would be getting all the speed, durability, etc. enhancements that Naruto himself gets when in Sage Mode. I'm not overly sure about this myself, but both sides were giving surprisingly well-reasoned arguments.


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## Miyoshi (Mar 18, 2014)

*Just wanted to add that while creating this thread when I stated we were discussing (Healthy) Nagato I was of the mind set that this would be taken as his most capable form possible, full power and no mobility issues that he hadn't been stated to have. 

I believe Chibaku Tensei would fail as well. If Rasen-Shuriken is nothing compared to a Kyuubi Bijuudama. BM Naruto's bijuudama equaled 6 bijuudama from the lesser beast. 6 bijuudama from tails 2-7> Rasen-Shuriken, Hachibi bijuudama, and Yasaka Magatama.*




The Undying said:


> There were some debates over whether Naruto was using Sage Mode _on top_ of Bijuu Mode or if it was just Naruto using Bijuu Mode and Sage Mode simultaneously, side-by-side on top of his base abilities. The difference, ability-wise, is whether the Kurama avatar would be getting all the speed, durability, etc. enhancements that Naruto himself gets when in Sage Mode. I'm not overly sure about this myself, but both sides were giving surprisingly well-reasoned arguments.



*Sounds to me as if those people you're referring to thought into the theory a little further than Kishimoto cared to emphasize on.*


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## TheGreen1 (Mar 24, 2014)

Question, is SM all throughout the Kurama shroud? If so, then all it takes is basically a Chakra arm. Nagato will try to absorb, turn to stone, and then turned into gravel. Naruto sips on lemonade and takes a nice relaxing shit on Nagato's corpse.


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## Jagger (Mar 24, 2014)

TheGreen1 said:


> Question, is SM all throughout the Kurama shroud? If so, then all it takes is basically a Chakra arm. Nagato will try to absorb, turn to stone, and then turned into gravel. Naruto sips on lemonade and takes a nice relaxing shit on Nagato's corpse.


Sasuke's Susano'O sword was capable of cut through Juubito thanks to Naruto's Sage Mode (since Juugo wasn't around anymore), so it's safe to assume Senjutsu is equally distributed along Naruto's chakra cloak.


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## Rocky (Mar 24, 2014)

The Undying said:


> The difference, ability-wise, is whether the Kurama avatar would be getting all the speed, durability, etc. enhancements that Naruto himself gets when in Sage Mode.




Of course it would. When in Biju Mode, Naruto's Chakra is mixed in with Kurama's, and when in Sage Mode, Naruto's Chakra is perfectly blended with natural energy. Both sources of Chakra (Naruto/Kurama & Natural Energy) would have to be balanced to achieve Sage Mode while simultaneously in Biju Mode. Naruto & Kurama have fused their Chakra into one, and the result of that "fusion" is BM Naruto. The fusion is what is using the Senjutsu, so the fusion is being enhanced. 

I supposed I could've saved some time by pointing out that the markings of a Sage (extra-shaded eyes) are also apparent on Naruto's Kyubi avatar. It's clearly being affected by Senjutsu.


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## TheGreen1 (Mar 24, 2014)

Jagger said:


> Sasuke's Susano'O sword was capable of cut through Juubito thanks to Naruto's Sage Mode (since Juugo wasn't around anymore), so it's safe to assume Senjutsu is equally distributed along Naruto's chakra cloak.



Alright, then we have Chakra arms that Nagato will "attempt" to avoid, but once he gets caught, he's fucked.


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## The Undying (Mar 24, 2014)

Rocky said:


> I supposed I could've saved some time by pointing out that the markings of a Sage (extra-shaded eyes) are also apparent on Naruto's Kyubi avatar. It's clearly being affected by Senjutsu.




Oh, good catch. I actually didn't notice this.

Guess that settles it.


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## Lurko (Mar 24, 2014)

This thread is a fucking joke Naruto is on a different level now.


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## Panther (Mar 24, 2014)

A fresh RM Naruto with his RM clones vs Nagato would be a balanced fight. BM Naruto takess this low diff, nevermind BSM Naruto...


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## Animal Realm (Mar 24, 2014)

Why do people think Nagato can't absorb Senjutsu-enhanced jutsu? He's done it before, several times, the only problem was when he was basically sucking straight Natural Energy (DIFFERENT to Sage Chakra) out of Naruto because he was a retard. That's totally different from absorbing a senjutsu chakra-enhanced jutsu. 

Show me a single panel to refute this and I'll run around the forum naked, but until then, it's so obvious that he can easily absorb Senpou: Bijuudama as easily as he absorbed Senpou: Chou Oodama Rasengan. Maybe it'd take a bit longer, but there's zero evidence it can't be done. Madara's Preta absorbed Senjutsu-enhanced ninjutsu too, along with pure senjutsu chakra from Hashi. The thing that turns them to stone is too much natural energy (UNBALANCED), whereas balanced senjutsu chakra is perfectly edible.

Seriously guys.


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## Super Chief (Mar 24, 2014)

Can healthy Nagato move on his own and use all Paths in one body?


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## Raiken (Mar 25, 2014)

A better match would probably be:
Bijuu Mode Naruto VS "Full Power/Healthy" Rinnegan Nagato.
Bijuu-Sage Mode Naruto is a little much.

However, I don't see why people think this is such a stomp a "Full Power/Crippled" Nagato almost beat KCM Naruto, V2/BM B and MS Itachi. It was his limited maneuverability that caused him to loose, plus I doubt Kabuto controlled him that well.

BM Naruto likely still wins, but I think this match would be pretty close
Scaling is probably something like this:

BSM Naruto > BM Naruto > "Full Power/Healthy" Rinnegan Nagato >> KCM Naruto > SM Naruto.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Mar 25, 2014)

Ersatz said:


> There is no underestimation when Joakim admits Nagato has no chance here.
> 
> Nagato is borderline top tier but he's facing someone who is eons faster then V2 Ei, has enough durability to survive a Juubi beam, who shits out blasts that erase mountain ranges on a regular basis and has clones that can fire FRS/Bijuudama Rasengans. He is outgunned, outsped, out muscled and outclassed.



Oh there's supreme underestimation at foot here....

Naruto's speed is being overrated. Many are treating him like Minato, when his speed is no where near as consistant.


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## tkpirate (Mar 25, 2014)

yeah BM Naruto is enough to win.BSM isn't needed.


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