# Cosmic Garou vs Elden Ring



## Captain Quincy (Dec 18, 2022)

How far does he get in ER?


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## JayK (Dec 18, 2022)

He gets nowhere.

Might hang out with Godrick but thats it.

Everybody else obliterates him. No shot he even gets past people like Niall.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 19, 2022)

Radahn about to meteor assault him into the next world

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Piecesis (Dec 19, 2022)

He gets as far as Solider of Godrick, but he'd probably lose to him.

Reactions: Funny 4


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## trance (Dec 19, 2022)

it doesn't help garou that radahn is far and away his better and he's only a mid game boss at best

nevermind people far stronger than radahn like hoarah loux, malenia, the dragonlord or maliketh

Reactions: Like 2


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## Rift (Dec 19, 2022)

Was Radahn's star halting calced?


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## JayK (Dec 19, 2022)

It was calc'd at _easily able to solo OPM 10000 times over level
_

Reactions: Funny 2


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## SSMG (Dec 19, 2022)

Rift said:


> Was Radahn's star halting calced?


If it's only moving stars that ain't shit to opm levels. 

Garou's gamma ray burst is star level and that's before he starting copying Saitama's strength at all. 

He grew multiple times stronger than this.


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## JayK (Dec 19, 2022)

@WorldsStrongest You were right.

The chimp instantly came in here arguing OPM wins without knowing shit about either verse the thread is about.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Steven (Dec 19, 2022)

Garou blitzes


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## AnimePhanatic (Dec 19, 2022)

Wouldn't Garou have his insane growth or evolution rate? Thus when facing someone on his level, he'd beat them eventually, and unless he faces someone significantly stronger than him, he wouldn't outright lose

Or are we going by feats only and not including character characteristics.


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## SSMG (Dec 19, 2022)

AnimePhanatic said:


> Wouldn't Garou have his insane growth or evolution rate? Thus when facing someone on his level, he'd beat them eventually, and unless he faces someone significantly stronger than him, he wouldn't outright lose
> 
> Or are we going by feats only and not including character characteristics.


Nah this should be taken into consideration whenever discussing Garou. 

And since the best feats in Elden ring is star level, and Garou was star level before even copying Saitama.. 


 There's no reason to assume he wouldn't be able to copy and match anyone in Elfen Ring.... 

That is assuming they even start off above him which is questionable in and of itself.


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## JayK (Dec 19, 2022)

> Star level Elden Ring

> OPM blitzing characters way faster than them

> Garou copying Collapsing Stars, Scarlet Rot and Destined Death

the jokes write themselves


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## AnimePhanatic (Dec 19, 2022)

SSMG said:


> Nah this should be taken into consideration whenever discussing Garou.
> 
> And since the best feats in Elden ring is star level, and Garou was star level before even copying Saitama..
> 
> ...


Yeah, it should be taken into consideration. I've noticed it's not done though, I don't know why, or maybe it's cause he's from OPM?

I'm barely know anything about Elden Ring, so I'll refrain from definitively stating their level.

However, if there's no gigantic chasm between him and his opponent, he should pull off the win eventually. And it's not a NLF cause of Shonen BS or something, it's actually how his ability works, and we've been shown it from the time he was human till Cosmic Fear form.

That's my two cents.


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## AnimePhanatic (Dec 19, 2022)

JayK said:


> > Star level Elden Ring
> 
> > OPM blitzing characters way faster than them
> 
> ...


Hey, if it exists in the Universe, it can be copied by Garou. I don't know the specific abilities you speak of so I admit I might be speaking ignorantly.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Also, if the character Garou is facing isn't far outside his reach, copying they themselves automatically gives him their stats, which closes the speed and power gap, as seen by when he copied Saitama. If they have hax, copying them depends on his comprehension abilities, considering he could understand and copy the Gamma Ray Burst in seconds, minutes at most, when the nearest star to us is 4.35 light years away, I don't think it's a fallacy that he truly understands EVERYTHING in the universe.
If he doesn't have the energy levels for it, he wouldn't be able to do it though, like his inability to completely copy Saitama who was creating a chasm, or the time-reversal, however if he's facing an opponent slightly stronger than him, it's GG.


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## Steven (Dec 19, 2022)

Starlevel Elden Ring lol

MC gets killed by some fodder monsters or bosses where cant even destroy a building

Reactions: Winner 1 | Optimistic 1 | Ningen 3


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## AnimePhanatic (Dec 19, 2022)

PS: I'm not saying Garou would clear the verse or something. I'm just pointing out the apparent downplay of Garou's abilities. Garou is the superpowered version of Hanma from Baki. If you're on the same level, same ballpark, not stomp-level completely out of his reach, Garou would win. But anything totally outside his paygrade, he'd lose, unless he survives the encounter over and over and over again.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 19, 2022)

Steven said:


> Starlevel Elden Ring lol
> 
> MC gets killed by some fodder monsters or bosses where cant even destroy a building


even if you wanted to go this route Radahn moves the entire planet during his phase transition lol. lowballed Elden Ring is impossible to be anything less than moon level


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## Steven (Dec 19, 2022)

OtherGalaxy said:


> even if you wanted to go this route Radahn moves the entire planet during his phase transition lol. lowballed Elden Ring is impossible to be anything less than moon level


Pretty much a outlier.99% of them cant destroy a building.The strongst Boss in the game can just swing her sword around with no DC feats at all.And the MC has neither good DC feats.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Disagree 1 | Old 1


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 19, 2022)

yeah its not like there aren’t entire storylines in the game that hinge on Radahn being able to move celestial bodies at will, which we then see on screen

Reactions: Like 1


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## Steven (Dec 19, 2022)

Is that the only good feat ER has?Because having a "storyline" dont makes it less a outlier.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## JayK (Dec 19, 2022)

You have to be a fucking idiot to argue a series in which destroying 1/10th of the Jupiter is being seen as impressive is on par with holding or in Ranni's case even creating millions of stars.


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## AnimePhanatic (Dec 19, 2022)

JayK said:


> You have to be a fucking idiot to argue a series in which destroying 1/10th of the Jupiter being impressive is on par with holding or in Ranni's case even creating millions of stars.


It wasn't one-tenth of Jupiter
Stop the downplay first, then maybe people would stop downplaying Elden Ring as well?


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 19, 2022)

it does, because a significant chunk of the lore cannot happen if Radahn can't move stars/planets etc.
It can't be an outlier with it being referenced constantly
Which is also something he did in his youth btw, when he was weaker than he is when he fights Malenia
The whole "no impressive dc" thing is even explained pretty handily by the fact that he primarily uses a specific spell, Collapsing Stars, to move celestial bodies.

He spams this spell against the player pretty much constantly.
You also have the elden ring as a whole being stated to regulate the stars, the elden beast being able to make multiple planes of existence overlap somehow (the numerous Erdtrees present in its space), the Age of the Stars ending presumably showing us the rest of what Radahn was holding back that stopped her plans etc

The sun itself is equated to the stars in one item description so unless you wanna somehow argue elden ring has a small sun....


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## JayK (Dec 19, 2022)

AnimePhanatic said:


> It wasn't one-tenth of Jupiter
> Stop the downplay first, then maybe people would stop downplaying Elden Ring as well?


Ok this is the final time I will bother going over this so read with caution.

Radahn halted the influence of the Dark Moon entirely which consists of this:



Ranni's entire questline revolves around the fact that she can't become Marika's replacement via the Dark Moon in order to screw with the Greater Will due to Radahn fucking the constellations of the Dark Moon over. As can be seen via the sorcery magic in the skies of Nokron aswell.

Radahn does this via a magic called Collapsing Stars which pretty much functions as a projectile and to reach those far away places it has to be hilariously FTL to begin with. Needless to say the Tarnished and Malenia can deal with said projectile.


Ranni on the other hand did this:



Have fun counting in the background mate.

Other than that, ignorance doesn't save you from being wrong so I recommend looking up feats for a verse before arguing about it (that doesn't just include you).

Elden Ring has been put against Toriko and GoH several times this year on this very section. Even max wank OPM gets babyshaked here.

Mind you this is not even getting into hax far superior to anything in OPM like the Scarlet Rot or Destined Death which both stem from Outer Gods. Primordial beings.


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## AnimePhanatic (Dec 19, 2022)

JayK said:


> Ok this is the final time I will bother going over this so read with caution.
> 
> Radahn halted the influence of the Dark Moon entirely which consists of this:
> 
> ...


Didn't read all that.
The post you replied to had 3 points. 
1. Saitama sneezed away much more than one-tenth of Jupiter
2. You're unnecessarily downplaying OPM, even going as far as one-tenth of Jupiter
3. I'm not the one downplaying Elden Ring, and I'm not saying Garou would clear, nor am I not acknowledging their feats. Simply don't downplay OPM unnecessarily and maybe people won't downplay the verse OPM is facing in return.
That's all.

Reactions: Like 3


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## AnimePhanatic (Dec 19, 2022)

Glanced through now and I like the fact that this Collapsing Stars can move hilariously FTL to reach those stars in a fictional game, but Serious Punch ² deflected energy beam can't move FTL to reach those stars and destroy them even though it also functioned as a projectile in a fictional manga, on this same forum, this same section. Double standards much?
Instead, there's all sorts of mental gymnastics and whatnot. Lol.

Reactions: Like 1


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## JayK (Dec 19, 2022)

1/9th of Jupiter then

my bad

Reactions: Funny 1


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## SSMG (Dec 19, 2022)

AnimePhanatic said:


> Yeah, it should be taken into consideration. I've noticed it's not done though, I don't know why, or maybe it's cause he's from OPM?
> 
> I'm barely know anything about Elden Ring, so I'll refrain from definitively stating their level.
> 
> ...


Well yeah there's a certain group of posters in this subforum who downplay opm anychance they get. Let alone take things like this into consideration lol. 

And Yeah I've never touched elden ring myself so I have no idea on where they stand. 

Just basing my opinion, on others opinions in here, which say the best feat in ER is moving some stars.

Which that is at min a star level feat, but could be above it due to the speed in which it was done. 

But that level of power isn't outside of the realm of Garous copying abilities... 

As he was star level before he copied anytbing, and shot up to solar system level off his first copy. 

So seems reasonable He'd be able to adapt and keep up with anyone from Elden Ring in power... 

Maybe their speed gap is too large and He'd never get the chance? I don't know tbh... Garou was ftl well before gaining God power.


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## SSMG (Dec 19, 2022)

AnimePhanatic said:


> Glanced through now and I like the fact that this Collapsing Stars can move hilariously FTL to reach those stars in a fictional game, but Serious Punch ² deflected energy beam can't move FTL to reach those stars and destroy them even though it also functioned as a projectile in a fictional manga, on this same forum, this same section. Double standards much?
> Instead, there's all sorts of mental gymnastics and whatnot. Lol.


  

But yeah you'll find Jayk in particular is a opm hater and has the downplay of the series living rent free in his head at all times. 

Just laugh at his horrible takes and move on.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Dec 19, 2022)

AnimePhanatic said:


> Glanced through now and I like the fact that this Collapsing Stars can move hilariously FTL to reach those stars in a fictional game, but Serious Punch ² deflected energy beam can't move FTL to reach those stars and destroy them even though it also functioned as a projectile in a fictional manga, on this same forum, this same section. Double standards much?
> Instead, there's all sorts of mental gymnastics and whatnot. Lol.


One has a timeframe, the other doesn't.

Ignoring the fact that nothing even proves it reached those stars.



Murata was even kind enough to show us a panel shot of stars being covered by some sort of gas. But yeah, @SSMG would say it's a totally irrelevant shot. As if Murata is dumb enough to draw something irrelevant especially since the."void" was only a few chapters prior


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## SSMG (Dec 19, 2022)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> But yeah, @SSMG would say it's a totally irrelevant shot.


Wtf kind of dogshit is this?

Murata drawing the void of stars that got erased, as not being erased anymore after Saitama reversed time..... Is an irrelavent shot?

Why would I ever claim this?

Maybe learn what I think about in specific instances before trying to drag my name through mud.

Because this, what you just did, only makes you look retarded and dumb.


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## JayK (Dec 19, 2022)

All I am seeing is crying from the OPM chimps about a verse they don't know shit about and then equate it to their own verse they don't know shit about either while making up feats.

Stay classy.


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## Lurko (Dec 19, 2022)

OPM becoming Dbs levels already.


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## AnimePhanatic (Dec 20, 2022)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> One has a timeframe, the other doesn't.
> 
> Ignoring the fact that nothing even proves it reached those stars.
> 
> ...


The OPM feat doesn't have a timeframe, yes. However, the void was created before Garou and Saitama arrived at IO, which Garou was shocked by. Considering how fast Garou's senses are, they were recoiled towards IO at very very insane speeds. Yet, the energy beam moved a *much more* greater distance in less time than they moved to IO.
Also, isn't it possible to get a timeframe for the energy beam using Blast and gang? Garou and Saitama got to IO right at the end of Blast's sentence/monologue. Get the average timeframe to say a sentence of that many words, then the energy beam would automatically take less time than that timeframe  

The void proves it reached those stars, and the REVERSAL OF CAUSALITY panel you posted does as well, cause a circular expanse of stars is very clearly highlighted in that panel, to show us the reversal of the void, but y'all won't see that


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## AnimePhanatic (Dec 20, 2022)

This thread is an interesting one though.

OBD regulars and specialists, I have a question.

If the void feat in OPM is impossible or invalid cause even if those stars were destroyed, we'd still see their light for years, why are the star feats in Elden Ring acknowledged? If stars were moved in Elden Ring like I've seen in this thread, we shouldn't SEE the movement of the stars cause the light would only reach us years from now, yet we see the stars as they're moving. Does Elden Ring light move at FTL speeds? Lol. Or is it simply that a fictional game just didn't give too much thoughts into the mechanics of light if stars move, much like how Murata didn't give too much thoughts into the mechanics of light if stars get destroyed...?

Why is OPM given such intense scrutiny when things that people disallow to death for the series, fly in other fictional works?

Using the logic y'all have been using for OPM, the stars in Elden Ring couldn't have been moved, otherwise, we wouldn't have seen their movement till years later. Radan or whoever did the feat was probably just manipulating the light from the stars and not moving the stars themselves, yeah?

It goes into other fictional works and accepted feats like cartoon Hercules with Zeus moving the stars to make a constellation of Hercules. That feat is automatically BS cause we shouldn't see the stars moving for years cause the light from them would only reach us years later, but it's an accepted feat anyway.

It reeks of intense hypocrisy.

Reactions: Winner 7 | MAXIMUM 1


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## SSMG (Dec 20, 2022)

AnimePhanatic said:


> This thread is an interesting one though.
> 
> OBD regulars and specialists, I have a question.
> 
> ...


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## Voyeur (Dec 20, 2022)




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## Galan (Dec 20, 2022)

WhTs


OtherGalaxy said:


> Radahn about to meteor assault him into the next world


That's not enough for Garou.


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## Fang (Dec 20, 2022)

The same three posters who wank OPM, downplay any series they know nothing about with full ignorance on a match up, and stone-wall are the ones arguing "star level" Garou is always and never going to be a surprise.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Steven (Dec 20, 2022)

The Doublestandards are over the top.

Nothing new here but thats some next Level shit.

ER Tards still Just posting muh lore Shit.Post on-screen feats


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## JayK (Dec 20, 2022)

On screen feats were posted actually.

You were just too busy bush diving OPM to bother by the looks of it.

How about you start posting feats for OPM which are not fanfic and didn't get debunked instead?

Reactions: Funny 3


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 20, 2022)

Galan said:


> WhTs
> 
> That's not enough for Garou.


“meteor assault” is just radahn diving from outer space

he stopped countless stars in the game, he isn’t meteor level


Steven said:


> The Doublestandards are over the top.
> 
> Nothing new here but thats some next Level shit.
> 
> ER Tards still Just posting muh lore Shit.Post on-screen feats



we already did that dumbass. you just said it was all an outlier despite Radahn stopping stars being a crucial part of multiple character’s stories and ending

and we see Radahn move the world in the middle of his boss fight, which is coded to always start at daytime no matter when you enter the arena, and then change to night immediately once he leaps into space


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## JayK (Dec 20, 2022)

Even if you disregard everything regarding Radahn there is still Ranni anyway.

Meanwhile there is nothing in OPM coming close to those made up feats.

Surely makes me wonder which one is consistent and which one isn't.


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## Fang (Dec 20, 2022)

Also point out Radahn's gravity magic should be at least roughly equivalent to Ranni's magic that can create dimensions filled with entire constellations and galaxies and confirmed not be a simple illusion.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## JayK (Dec 20, 2022)

And that is just an extremely small fraction of what she created.

Star level off panel feat apparently.

Shows how much some muppets _arguing _here actually know.


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 20, 2022)

Fang said:


> Also point out Radahn's gravity magic should be at least roughly equivalent to Ranni's magic that can create dimensions filled with entire constellations and galaxies and confirmed not be a simple illusion.


he was basically one of the biggest obstacles to her plan so anything she can do should scale to him and the other high tiers by virtue of her needing our help to get rid of him at all


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## JayK (Dec 20, 2022)

The are 2 issues with that though.

Radahn being stated to be the mightiest demigod who partook in the Shattering and Ranni not being able to deal with him are both events occuring after her physical death.


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 20, 2022)

JayK said:


> The are 2 issues with that though.
> 
> Radahn being stated to be the mightiest demigod who partook in the Shattering and Ranni not being able to deal with him are both events taking place after her physical death.


yeah but radahn stopped the stars well before shattering, which also sealed her destiny due to the stars being connected to fate. If she could have undone it then by virtue of being stronger or something she probably would have, she needed her convoluted plan (that also apparently involved Rykard’s help) to get this all going.

Plus Radahn is also considerably weaker after Malenia’s rot got to him so best case scenario it all just evens out


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## SSMG (Dec 20, 2022)

Still waiting for anyone to try and touch post #36 in this topic.


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## JayK (Dec 20, 2022)

OtherGalaxy said:


> yeah but radahn stopped the stars well before shattering, which also sealed her destiny due to the stars being connected to fate. If she could have undone it then by virtue of being stronger or something she probably would have, she needed her convoluted plan (that also apparently involved Rykard’s help) to get this all going.
> 
> Plus Radahn is also considerably weaker after Malenia’s rot got to him so best case scenario it all just evens out


Wasn't it that she just commited suicide in order to escape the Greater Will which didn't have her anticipated effects and only then started scheming to become the next goddess?


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 20, 2022)

JayK said:


> Wasn't it that she just commited suicide in order to escape the Greater Will which didn't have her anticipated effects and only then started scheming to become the next goddess?


yes but aren’t both things parts/hindrances to her goals? I know Iji iirc mentions what Radahn did to the stars as interfering with Ranni’s fate specifically


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## Fang (Dec 20, 2022)

OtherGalaxy said:


> yes but aren’t both things parts/hindrances to her goals? I know Iji iirc mentions what Radahn did to the stars as interfering with Ranni’s fate specifically


It interferes with all sorceries in the Lands Between ignoring those derived from faith based incantations like what the ancient dragons or Golden Order use. Radahn blocking the stars after the start of the Shattering pretty much nerfs all the major magic-users in the verse', Rennala, Ranni, Sellen, etc...

Reactions: Informative 1


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 20, 2022)

wait does that mean radahn willingly nerfed _himself_ since he uses gravity magic or is that not affected because it comes from space aliens


but then so does glintstone on some level


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## JayK (Dec 20, 2022)

It nerfed all the astrologians associated to the Dark Moon e.g. Rennala, Ranni, Sellen, those 2 sorcerers with the weird ass clothing who's names I forgot and legit everyone in the Academy and Nokron pretty much.


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## Juan (Dec 20, 2022)

radahn rips him in fucking half what the fuck is this thread


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## JayK (Dec 20, 2022)

He won't even get to Radahn.

Even if he makes it past the tutorial, Iron Fist Alexander is waiting for em.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Darth Nihilus (Dec 20, 2022)




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## Darth Nihilus (Dec 20, 2022)

Then you got the MC and high level sorcerers like Rennala and Ranni hurling comets and moons at people


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## Darth Nihilus (Dec 20, 2022)




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## Darth Nihilus (Dec 20, 2022)



Reactions: Like 1


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## trance (Dec 20, 2022)

>ranni's feat of creating a dimension containing a whole ass moon and thousands if not millions of stars gets posted
>"StAr LeVeL eR"


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## SoulOfCinder (Dec 20, 2022)

ER wins by being SS while OP caps at large star, but this Ranni created a dimension with countless stars that has no more proof that it's more than illusion is on the same level as laser causing supervoid.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## JayK (Dec 20, 2022)

about as much of an illusion as the Rennala, water and Moon


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## Imagine (Dec 20, 2022)

Good thread.


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## SoulOfCinder (Dec 20, 2022)

JayK said:


> about as much of an illusion as the Rennala, water and Moon


We know for sure the water is an illusion since the lightning effect that deals additional damage when fighting on water does not work in this fight. Rennalai is also an illusion, that was created of her prime. What makes the moon and stars not an illusion


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## JayK (Dec 20, 2022)

SoulOfCinder said:


> We know for sure the water is an illusion since the lightning effect that deals additional damage when fighting on water does not work in this fight. Rennalai is also an illusion, that was created of her prime. What makes the moon and stars not an illusion


my man something which can literally fuck you up doesn't pass the definition of illusion

its dimensional fuckery and you can even see it happen on screen which doesn't happen in a lot of cases

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Captain Quincy (Dec 20, 2022)

It shouldn't even matter if the things Ranni creates are illusions if they're still effectively the same as the real thing. Which as we saw with fake Renalla they are.


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## SoulOfCinder (Dec 20, 2022)

JayK said:


> my man something which can literally fuck you up doesn't pass the definition of illusion


Why not? Are Margit, the Omen of Mogh in Leyndell sewers, and Godfrey shade not considered illusions?


JayK said:


> its dimensional fuckery and you can even see it happen on screen which doesn't happen in a lot of cases


I agree that she takes us to a pocket dimension. I just don't see the evidence of everything in the pocket dimension being real. Is there a piece of lore that supports this?


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## SoulOfCinder (Dec 20, 2022)

Captain Quincy said:


> It shouldn't even matter if the things Ranni creates are illusions if they're still effectively the same as the real thing. Which as we saw with fake Renalla they are.


Is it? I agree if that's how things are treated around here, but there are other series where characters create elaborate illusions that don't scale them to that level


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## Captain Quincy (Dec 20, 2022)

SoulOfCinder said:


> other series where characters create elaborate illusions that don't scale them to that level


I don't see how this applies. Even if Ranni herself is weaker than the illusions she can make, that illusion magic is still part of her overall skillset and something she should be capable of doing in a battledome matchup.

It'd be no different than a character with hax that allows them to hit outside their weight class. Not that I doubt Age of Stars Ranni is > any illusion we saw her make anyways.


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## JayK (Dec 20, 2022)

SoulOfCinder said:


> Why not? Are Margit, the Omen of Mogh in Leyndell sewers, and Godfrey shade not considered illusions?


That is a weird definition of illusions you have there.

An illusion is something which doesn't actually physically exist which doesn't apply to either of those aswell.


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## SoulOfCinder (Dec 20, 2022)

Captain Quincy said:


> I don't see how this applies. Even if Ranni herself is weaker than the illusions she can make, that illusion magic is still part of her overall skillset and something she should be capable of doing in a battledome matchup.
> 
> It'd be no different than a character with hax that allows them to hit outside their weight class. Not that I doubt Age of Stars Ranni is > any illusion we saw her make anyways.


I'm not arguing about hax that let's characters hit out of their league. I'm talking about specifically in scenarios like these where characters have celestial bodies in their pocket dimension
s. It usually doesn't boost them to that level. For example, Kaguya from Naruto has a sun in one of her dimensions, but Naruto as a verse caps at small planet or something


JayK said:


> That is a weird definition of illusions you have there.
> 
> An illusion is something which doesn't actually physically exist which doesn't apply to either of those aswell.


Not my definition, they are called illusions in game


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## Darth Nihilus (Dec 20, 2022)

Psure that was the OG Rennala and Ranni just amped her to her prime state

That's what it looked like to me anyway


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## Darth Nihilus (Dec 20, 2022)

Plus Ranni's soul was being housed inside of a doll while all this shit is going on 

So yeah


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## SoulOfCinder (Dec 20, 2022)

Darth Nihilus said:


> Psure that was the OG Rennala and Ranni just amped her to her prime state
> 
> That's what it looked like to me anyway


Ah, you're right.


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## JayK (Dec 20, 2022)

Darth Nihilus said:


> Psure that was the OG Rennala and Ranni just amped her to her prime state
> 
> That's what it looked like to me anyway


It isn't, Rennala is braindead crawling on the ground nowhere close to where that clone of her forms. She is literally unable to do anything including fighting since Radagon broke her heart.

It is a protective spell created by Ranni to protect her mother and not have her potentially killed in a fight as you'd suggest. Her voice lines say as much aswell with _Mother's rich slumber shall not be disturbed_.



Darth Nihilus said:


> Plus Ranni's soul was being housed inside of a doll while all this shit is going on
> 
> So yeah


Again, it is a protective spell which Ranni cast ages ago during her alive days, her wherabouts are irrelevant.

We went over this in the past.


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 20, 2022)

range isn’t a huge deal for illusionists in ER, Morgott can send imitations of himself all over the world with little issue apparently


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## SoulOfCinder (Dec 20, 2022)

JayK said:


> It isn't, Rennala is braindead crawling on the ground nowhere close to where that clone of her forms. She is literally unable to do anything including fighting since Radagon broke her heart.
> 
> It is a protective spell created by Ranni to protect her mother and not have her potentially killed in a fight as you'd suggest. Her voice lines say as much aswell with _Mother's rich slumber shall not be disturbed_.


You can see Rennala's actual body in the spell before the blue clone starts to rise.


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## JayK (Dec 20, 2022)

SoulOfCinder said:


> You can see Rennala's actual visage before the blue clone starts to rise.


My man, Rennala is on the ground RIGHT NEXT to the Tarnished and not where Ranni's spell creates that clone of what she percieves a potential prime Rennala to be.

Rennala herself is braindead and unable to do ANYTHING.


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## SoulOfCinder (Dec 20, 2022)

JayK said:


> My man, Rennala is on the ground RIGHT NEXT to the Tarnished and not where Ranni's spell creates that clone of what she percieves a potential prime Rennala to be.
> 
> Rennala herself is braindead and unable to do ANYTHING.


But the real Rennala is no longer next to the tarnished after the clone forms and we saw the real Rennala crawling to the middle of the room during the cutscene


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## Darth Nihilus (Dec 20, 2022)

That's still one hell of a feat for someone who is in spirit form


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## JayK (Dec 20, 2022)

SoulOfCinder said:


> But the real Rennala is no longer next to the tarnished after the clone forms and we saw the real Rennala crawling to the middle of the room during the cutscene


No she sits still on the ground right next to the Tarnished.
Glad you finally noticed that Ranni created a dimension with fuckkillion stars in it in order to not exert Rennala to all the carnage going on between the clone and the Tarnished.



Darth Nihilus said:


> That's still one hell of a feat for someone who is in spirit form


Spell was so strong it lasted past her physical death.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## SoulOfCinder (Dec 20, 2022)

JayK said:


> Glad you finally noticed that Ranni created a dimension with fuckkillion stars in it.


I was referring to right before they get transported, the last shot of the tarnished we see in the library, Rennala is not next to him

If this feat is accepted, fine. I'm just saying we have to keep consistent standards across all series.


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## JayK (Dec 20, 2022)

SoulOfCinder said:


> I was referring to right before they get transported, the last shot of the tarnished we see in the library, Rennala is not next to him
> 
> If this feat is accepted, fine. I'm just saying we have to keep consistent standards across all series.


At that point the Tarnished is already getting encompassed by the spell. It is very clear cut since we even see how it happens which doesn't happen very often in fiction with such feats.

Creational feats in that way are usually accepted (looking over at games like Okami as a good example where there are visible Galaxies etc. in a dimension), especially if other feats match it -> Radahn holding the celestial bodies of the Dark Moon. 

Of course there are also some cases which didn't get accepted or went nowhere like Majora's or Demise' respective dimensions in Zelda.


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## Darth Nihilus (Dec 20, 2022)

and Radahn is considered the strongest whereas Malenia is just fucking broken 

This is wild


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## JayK (Dec 20, 2022)

Darth Nihilus said:


> and Radahn is considered the strongest


Addressed this in this thread before but he was called the strongest of the Shattering which was at a time at which Ranni already passed away to escape the Greater Will.

He might have still been the strongest nevertheless but it is a bit vague to tell, especially since Malenia kinda ended up being stronger than him with the Scarlet Rot.


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## SoulOfCinder (Dec 20, 2022)

Darth Nihilus said:


> and Radahn is considered the strongest whereas Malenia is just fucking broken
> 
> This is wild


Strongest of the shattering, not the strongest demigod. Didn't Morgott beat him too?


JayK said:


> At that point the Tarnished is already getting encompassed by the spell. It is very clear cut since we even see how it happens which doesn't happen very often in fiction with such feats.


Okay


JayK said:


> Creational feats in that way are usually accepted (looking over at games like Okami as a good example where there are visible Galaxies etc. in a dimension), especially if other feats match it -> Radahn holding the celestial bodies of the Dark Moon.
> 
> Of course there are also some cases which didn't get accepted or went nowhere like Majora's or Demise' respective dimensions in Zelda.


Fair enough, we'll treat it on a case by case bases then per series


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 20, 2022)

morgott also beat radahn once, although it was probably when he was younger given the size. Still=star level scaling because Radahn stopped the stars in his youth



and then there’s Hoarah Loux


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## Darth Nihilus (Dec 20, 2022)

JayK said:


> Addressed this in this thread before but he was called the strongest of the Shattering which was at a time at which Ranni already passed away to escape the Greater Will.
> 
> He might have still been the strongest nevertheless but it is a bit vague to tell, especially since Malenia kinda ended up being stronger than him with the Scarlet Rot.



Still crazy how the dude is literally rotting from the inside out and still alive at the same time 

Whereas Malenia and Millicent are losing limbs and Radan is still roaming around the battlefield like the Walking Dead

Reactions: Agree 1


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## JayK (Dec 20, 2022)

OtherGalaxy said:


> morgott also beat radahn once, although it was probably when he was younger given the size. Still=star level scaling because Radahn stopped the stars in his youth
> 
> 
> 
> and then there’s Hoarah Loux


Morgott 100% gets scaling from Radahn.

The former beat the later during the Shattering. Even if it happened to be due to outwitting Radahn there is no way he wouldn't.

Dude is also a certified Tarnished clapper while not even going all out.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## Darth Nihilus (Dec 20, 2022)

Plus Malenia can life drain every time she slashes you as if her Scarlet Rot wasn't broken enough


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## Fang (Dec 21, 2022)

OtherGalaxy said:


> wait does that mean radahn willingly nerfed _himself_ since he uses gravity magic or is that not affected because it comes from space aliens
> 
> 
> but then so does glintstone on some level


Radahn wasn't nerfed. He just uses gravity magic, its all the astrologists and sorcery associated with the Moon, Dark Moon, stars, and Primeval currents.


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Dec 21, 2022)

Darth Nihilus said:


> Still crazy how the dude is literally rotting from the inside out and still alive at the same time
> 
> Whereas Malenia and Millicent are losing limbs and Radan is still roaming around the battlefield like the Walking Dead


malenia's scarlet rot comes from the outer god itself
radahn got hit by one scarlet aeonia and went insane


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## JayK (Dec 21, 2022)

Malenia literally kills everything around her passively, just look at the Haligtree.

So Radahn being able to take the first Aeonia is still extremely impressive.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Dec 21, 2022)

JayK said:


> Malenia literally kills everything around her passively, just look at the Haligtree.
> 
> So Radahn being able to take the first Aeonia is still extremely impressive.


not more impressive than malenia being born with it and enduring it for literal centuries


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## JayK (Dec 22, 2022)

Wolfgang Grimmer said:


> not more impressive than malenia being born with it and enduring it for literal centuries


Malenia only took it that well thanks to Miquella.

She removed the needle embedded by Miquella towards the very end of the Shattering during the climax with Radahn. Afterwards she was rotting away fairly quickly.
Now of course you also have to consider that she was the very centre of the Scarlet Rot so she likely has been exerted to it to a higher degree than Radahn.

As a side note, Miquella is the only character in the game besides the Blind Swordsman able to resist an Outer God. Not even the Tarnished could do it as seen with the Frenzied Flame.


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Dec 22, 2022)

JayK said:


> Malenia only took it that well thanks to Miquella.
> 
> She removed the needle embedded by Miquella towards the very end of the Shattering during the climax with Radahn. Afterwards she was rotting away fairly quickly.
> Now of course you also have to consider that she was the very centre of the Scarlet Rot so she likely has been exerted to it to a higher degree than Radahn.
> ...


she was born with it. nowhere in the game says when miquella started making the needles


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## SSMG (Dec 22, 2022)

Well seeing as elden ring won game of the year.. I think it's time I pick it up and give it a whirl.

Reactions: MAXIMUM 1


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## Fang (Dec 22, 2022)

JayK said:


> As a side note, Miquella is the only character in the game besides the Blind Swordsman able to resist an Outer God. Not even the Tarnished could do it as seen with the Frenzied Flame.


The Tarnished lets the The Frenzied Flame possess them in that ending.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fang (Dec 22, 2022)

Darth Nihilus said:


> Still crazy how the dude is literally rotting from the inside out and still alive at the same time
> 
> Whereas Malenia and Millicent are losing limbs and Radan is still roaming around the battlefield like the Walking Dead


Radahn lost both of his feet.


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## JayK (Dec 22, 2022)

Fang said:


> The Tarnished lets the The Frenzied Flame possess them in that ending.


The relevant part hereby is that they can only prevent that by abusing Miquella's powers.



SSMG said:


> Well seeing as elden ring won game of the year.. I think it's time I pick it up and give it a whirl.


The amazing world, characters and atmosphere aside, that might help understanding the verses overall standing power wise aswell.

Looks are deceiving but it is a solid high tier verse.

Reactions: Like 1


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## SSMG (Dec 22, 2022)

JayK said:


> The amazing world, characters and atmosphere aside, that might help understanding the verses overall standing power wise aswell.
> 
> Looks are deceiving but it is a solid high tier verse.


Even with it's power setting aside. I've wanted to play this game for a while now. I've watched live streams and seen videos of it for a while...Just been crazy busy during the summer with work and being active to pick it up and give it a solid dedicated run. 

And now that  it's won game of the year? I gotta give it a shot ... 

And ngl this topic def peaked my interest too. Y'all def enjoy it and are passionate about it. and I love a good open world RPG with tons of builds and play styles so I think I'll really enjoy it and share that passion too. 

Going to see if it goes on sale for boxing day and if not I'll pick it up that week anyways.

Reactions: Like 1


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 22, 2022)

i actually prefer dark souls as far as From settings go but Elden Ring is their strongest series by a fair amount, and it’s significantly less abstract about shit than DS is so it’s easier to use in matches

Reactions: Like 3


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## JayK (Dec 22, 2022)

It pretty much comes down to whetever you prefer Dark or High Fantasy.


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 22, 2022)

i dont really like dark fantasy in general actually lol, dark souls in specific just really strongly appeals to me


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## SoulOfCinder (Dec 22, 2022)

The fact that all the fromsoft games have unique worlds to where anyone could say any game is their favorite is honestly great. Miyazaki never misses

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Fang (Dec 22, 2022)

OtherGalaxy said:


> i actually prefer dark souls as far as From settings go but Elden Ring is their strongest series by a fair amount, and it’s significantly less abstract about shit than DS is so it’s easier to use in matches


Shame Dark Souls 3 was just a rehash of Dark Souls 1 and copied Bloodborne's meme dodge 1-frame spamming with rolls compared to prior DS ones

ER and BB for me though Demon's Souls always holds a special place and Sekiro is fantastic


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 22, 2022)

i dont really see ds3 that way, theres a lot of ds1 fanservice sure, but the bulk of the story with sulyvahn, twin princes and kingdom of lothric drama, ringed city as a whole I just loved

biggest disappointment about it is really just how gimped the Profaned Capital was (and the profaned flame being an even shittier plot point than DS2’s cyclical lord souls was) and basically how all the cut content from Archdragon’s Peak and the solar eclipse was insanely better than the final game’s versions, even though I already liked both


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## Fang (Dec 22, 2022)

OtherGalaxy said:


> i dont really see ds3 that way, theres a lot of ds1 fanservice sure, but the bulk of the story with sulyvahn, twin princes and kingdom of lothric drama, ringed city as a whole I just loved
> 
> biggest disappointment about it is really just how gimped the Profaned Capital was (and the profaned flame being an even shittier plot point than DS2’s cyclical lord souls was) and basically how all the cut content from Archdragon’s Peak and the solar eclipse was insanely better than the final game’s versions, even though I already liked both


The entire premise of DS3 was a bad ending repeat of DS1.

It was by far the most telling example of Miyazaki not giving a shit and reiterating the same shit we went through in DS1 all over again with only some key differences. Definitely the worst DS game by far until Demon's Souls remake happened. You can talk about references but it also references and gives tons of fanservice to DS2 as well but that's not my point; its just a repeat and recycling of DS1 and you can really see even with the A team the heart wasn't there.


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## Voyeur (Dec 22, 2022)

It's a shame people don't talk about DS2. They always talk about 1 or 3. But 2 is just that forgotten middle child.


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## SoulOfCinder (Dec 22, 2022)

Fang said:


> The entire premise of DS3 was a bad ending repeat of DS1.
> 
> It was by far the most telling example of Miyazaki not giving a shit and reiterating the same shit we went through in DS1 all over again with only some key differences. Definitely the worst DS game by far until Demon's Souls remake happened. You can talk about references but it also references and gives tons of fanservice to DS2 as well but that's not my point; its just a repeat and recycling of DS1 and you can really see even with the A team the heart wasn't there.


Worse DS game by far? The storytelling might not have been as strong, but the gameplay blows 1 and 2 out the water. Way better bosses, way better dlc, mostly better environment, and massively improved gameplay? I'll take that and a slightly worse story over any of the previous souls games except Bloodborne. That being said, I love all the souls games and have a couple hundred hours in each.

Reactions: MAXIMUM 1


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## JayK (Dec 22, 2022)

I don't think anyone would question Gael being the best DS boss.


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 23, 2022)

Fang said:


> The entire premise of DS3 was a bad ending repeat of DS1.
> 
> It was by far the most telling example of Miyazaki not giving a shit and reiterating the same shit we went through in DS1 all over again with only some key differences. Definitely the worst DS game by far until Demon's Souls remake happened. You can talk about references but it also references and gives tons of fanservice to DS2 as well but that's not my point; its just a repeat and recycling of DS1 and you can really see even with the A team the heart wasn't there.


hm
I pretty much feel the exact opposite about 3 as you do
but I don’t think there’s really any benefit to going back and forth about it, doesn’t seem like something either of us are likely to change our minds about



regarding ds2 as someone mentioned earlier, it is a flawed but extremely cool game j have a lot of love for, and the writing in it is mostly very good


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## Fang (Dec 23, 2022)

OtherGalaxy said:


> hm
> I pretty much feel the exact opposite about 3 as you do
> but I don’t think there’s really any benefit to going back and forth about it, doesn’t seem like something either of us are likely to change our minds about


I agree but there is literally no defending DS3 being a rehash of DS1, because that's essentially what we got.


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## Adamant soul (Dec 23, 2022)

I'm not opposed to Dark Fantasy in general (though I do definitely prefer more optimistic stories) BUT most Souls games are just way too far overboard on how dark and miserable and depressing the stories are for my tastes.

Like I remember when I actually did play a bit of Bloodborne and I got to the bit where I had to decide where to tell Gascoigne's daughter to go. I picked the church and then I methodically slaughtered every fucking enemy between her and the church but...NOPE she still dies and she dies no matter what you do.

That was basically the point where I went "fuck this", like what's the point of having these characters there if I can't save any of them? What's the point of playing through these games if ultimately nothing your character does makes any difference, most of these worlds are fucked regardless.

I still acknowledge the storytelling's good and I'll watch lore videos and shit, but it's not the type of thing I'd actually play myself.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Piecesis (Dec 23, 2022)

Adamant soul said:


> I'm not opposed to Dark Fantasy in general (though I do definitely prefer more optimistic stories) BUT most Souls games are just way too far overboard on how dark and miserable and depressing the stories are for my tastes.
> 
> Like I remember when I actually did play a bit of Bloodborne and I got to the bit where I had to decide where to tell Gascoigne's daughter to go. I picked the church and then I methodically slaughtered every fucking enemy between her and the church but...NOPE she still dies and she dies no matter what you do.
> 
> ...


While I do like Souls games in general. That part of BB, I thought it was too far and unsettling. I don't like it at all. I agree.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## trance (Dec 23, 2022)

Fang said:


> I agree but there is literally no defending DS3 being a rehash of DS1, because that's essentially what we got.


gael is far and away the greatest DS boss tho


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## Fang (Dec 23, 2022)

trance said:


> gael is far and away the greatest DS boss tho


>Artorias
>Soul of Cinder
>Lothric Twin Brothers
>Pontiff 

I disagree


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## SoulOfCinder (Dec 23, 2022)

The fact that there are so many good bosses across the souls games to where anyone could say any boss is their favorite is great. Miyazaki really never misses (my favorite DS boss is Midir)

Reactions: Like 2


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## SSMG (Dec 23, 2022)

Well shit ER is 30% off and all the DS games are 50% off rn. 

Looks like I know what imma be busy with for the next few months in my spare time.

Reactions: MAXIMUM 1


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## SoulOfCinder (Dec 23, 2022)

SSMG said:


> Well shit ER is 30% off and all the DS games are 50% off rn.
> 
> Looks like I know what imma be busy with for the next few months in my spare time.


Take the plunge. You won't die.

Reactions: Like 3


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## SSMG (Dec 23, 2022)




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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 23, 2022)

twin princes one of the best from bosses in general I never see people praise it much

best attempt at an O&S style fight they’ve done since ds1 and I really wish the dual bosses in elden ring were more like that


or at _least_ more like the Throne Duo that was still fair

Reactions: Like 1


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## The World (Dec 23, 2022)

JayK said:


> Malenia only took it that well thanks to Miquella.
> 
> She removed the needle embedded by Miquella towards the very end of the Shattering during the climax with Radahn. Afterwards she was rotting away fairly quickly.
> Now of course you also have to consider that she was the very centre of the Scarlet Rot so she likely has been exerted to it to a higher degree than Radahn.
> ...


Isn't she basically an Avatar of the rot of the Outer God at this point? She will bloom again from the player character's kill and become a true Goddess according to a prophecy


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## SSMG (Dec 23, 2022)

Yo what's the best ER builds for a noobie? 

I want a fast dps based character.


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## JayK (Dec 23, 2022)

You are like half a year late for the double Rivers of Blood build.



The World said:


> Isn't she basically an Avatar of the rot of the Outer God at this point? She will bloom again from the player character's kill and become a true Goddess according to a prophecy


Looking at Marika, local gods of their respective Outer Gods seem to functionally become part of their Outer God meaning that Malenia would have eventually become one with the Scarlet Rot. You can probably make a healthy assumption from there that once the forceful (she had no intention of embracing her fate as an Empyrean) overtaking from the God of Rot is complete she'd be fine.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Azzuri (Dec 23, 2022)

I should get back to playing ER, but goddamn I can't beat Godrick.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## SSMG (Dec 23, 2022)

JayK said:


> You are like half a year late for the double Rivers of Blood build.


I'll look into that build ty. 

Im sure it's compatible with samurai class?


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## JayK (Dec 23, 2022)

SSMG said:


> I'll look into that build ty.
> 
> Im sure it's compatible with samurai class?


Don't.

If you wanna run a quicker weapon use Moonveil.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## SoulOfCinder (Dec 23, 2022)

SSMG said:


> Yo what's the best ER builds for a noobie?
> 
> I want a fast dps based character.


ER has a lot of builds that trivialize the gameplay which may not be ideal for your first playthrough. But, there's an evergaol in Limgrave that has an enemy that gives you a weapon called Bloodhound's fang which has high bleed buildup and upgrades with Somber Smithing Stones which are really easily routable if you look up the locations.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## SSBMonado (Dec 23, 2022)

It's stated that Malenia would have ascended to godhood (whether she wanted it or not) had she "bloomed" one more time. 
The first bloom was against Radahn and the second was against you in her boss fight. This likely means that, had she survived her boss fight and invoked the rot one more time, she would have become the rot equivalent of Marika.

I also like how, despite all the hype Radahn gets, being the "strongest demigod" and all that junk, he doesn't even make it into the top 5 of the strongest bosses in the game. Elden Beast, Radagon, Godfrey, Morgott, Malenia, Maliketh, Placidusax and arguably Mhog all out-shine him in one way or another, certainly in the sad state we fight him in.


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## JayK (Dec 23, 2022)

Malenia is still alive inside the Aeonia.

The other Aeonia which she fell asleep and got carried within by Finlay is in the room to the left. Why else would Finlay have carried the entire flower from Redmane Castle?


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Dec 24, 2022)

the goddess of rot is malenia's god form what the hell there are literally three scarlet aeoniass that you can physically see in the game


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## deltaniner (Dec 24, 2022)

AnimePhanatic said:


> This thread is an interesting one though.
> 
> OBD regulars and specialists, I have a question.
> 
> ...


So when ya'll gonna stop circlejerking and actually acknowledge @AnimePhanatic's post?

Reactions: Like 2


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## Voyeur (Dec 24, 2022)

Never. Cause your dumbass still can't read the sheer number of posts saying otherwise.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## SSMG (Dec 24, 2022)

deltaniner said:


> So when ya'll gonna stop circlejerking and actually acknowledge @AnimePhanatic's post?


Using a consistent based logic without bias across the board would be too much to ask on the internet man.

Reactions: Like 1


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## SSMG (Dec 24, 2022)

On a seperate note. 


I'm fucking loving this game.

Reactions: MAXIMUM 1


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## SSMG (Dec 24, 2022)

deltaniner said:


> So when ya'll gonna stop circlejerking and actually acknowledge @AnimePhanatic's post?


But also that post is only applicable to feats with movement of stars like Redhans. 

Because the top tier(s) of the verse made their own pocket dimension filled with stars and other heavingly bodies and others scale to that..... 

And as such they are above opm top tiers regardless. 


For now anyways.


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## trance (Dec 24, 2022)

SSMG said:


> Because the top tier(s) of the verse made their own pocket dimension filled with stars and other heavingly bodies and others scale to that


when ranni did that feat, she was weaker than radahn, so quite far from a top tier

Reactions: Informative 1


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## SSMG (Dec 24, 2022)

trance said:


> when ranni did that feat, she was weaker than radahn, so quite far from a top tier


Ahh okay gotcha.


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## JayK (Dec 24, 2022)

trance said:


> when ranni did that feat, she was weaker than radahn, so quite far from a top tier


She created it while still alive, around the time Radagon left Rennala which was still significantly before the Shattering. It was just powerful enough to last past her death.


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Dec 25, 2022)

deltaniner said:


> So when ya'll gonna stop circlejerking and actually acknowledge @AnimePhanatic's post?


is this really the argument people are using to discredit star level opm?


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## Captain Quincy (Dec 25, 2022)

SSMG said:


> Yo what's the best ER builds for a noobie?
> 
> I want a fast dps based character.


Bloodhound fang is up there and you can get it at the start of the game

Reactions: Like 1


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## Justiciar (Dec 25, 2022)

Radhan's "stars" turned out to be meteors, and he has no way of weaponizing these in combat, also one struck the earth and caused a village-sized crater.

Garou would solo Elden Ring as the Hero Hunter, Cosmic Garou is spite of the highest magnitude.


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## Fang (Dec 25, 2022)

The World said:


> Isn't she basically an Avatar of the rot of the Outer God at this point? She will bloom again from the player character's kill and become a true Goddess according to a prophecy


She becomes the actual Goddess of Rot with the Third Bloom.



Justiciar said:


> Radhan's "stars" turned out to be meteors, and he has no way of weaponizing these in combat, also one struck the earth and caused a village-sized crater.
> 
> Garou would solo Elden Ring as the Hero Hunter, Cosmic Garou is spite of the highest magnitude.


Wrong.


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## Justiciar (Dec 25, 2022)

Fang said:


> Wrong.


You're deluded.

The best feat in Elden Ring would be Malenia nuking Caelid with the Scarlet Rot, ruining herself and causing brain damage to Radhan. If we ignore the fact that the Scarlet Rot spread, we're still talking about a small town-area at best. You can ride across the area in 5 minutes, easily.

No one is super-fast in Elden Ring either. Sure, Malenia has her anime Waterfowl Dance move, which looks pretty fast, and you have the Bloodhound Step and Bloodhound Finesse that makes you invisible for a split second. But that's it. And everything can be reaction dodged.



But these things are extremely tame compared to your average Shonen. Let alone One Punch Man.

Not to mention that this is a game that you can solo with a regular steel sword. A sword that would snap in two before it could even penetrate Garou's retina.

Fuck the Lands Between, Garou disintegrates the entire planet with a Gamma-ray Burst and teleports back to his fight against Saitama.


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## Fang (Dec 25, 2022)

Justiciar said:


> You're deluded.


I am not, you simply don't know what you are talking about.


Justiciar said:


> The best feat in Elden Ring would be Malenia nuking Caelid with the Scarlet Rot, ruining herself and causing brain damage to Radhan. If we ignore the fact that the Scarlet Rot spread, we're still talking about a small town-area at best. You can ride across the area in 5 minutes, easily.


Ah so once more, utilizing gameplay mechanics instead of lore to try and justify the size of a specific area from the lore with in-game locations.  Also no, the size of Caelid in the game is not correspondent to the actual lore of the country. The Lands Between is a fucking cut-off mega continent that is isolated from the rest of the world.  

Try again, pal.

The feats with the Outer Gods, Radahn holding and pushing back actual stars, Placidusax warping and altering time in Farum Azula, feats of Ranni and Rennala, etc...completely invalidate your nonsense.


Justiciar said:


> No one is super-fast in Elden Ring either.


Lanniseax and Fortisaxx both catch natural lightning with their hands. Radahn literally ventured into battling the stars, you are still completely wrong here.


Justiciar said:


> *snip*


Everything you said is literally regutirated nonsense that was debunked that you are repeating from SSMG's vomited nonsense, almost verbatim.


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 25, 2022)

star in elden ring refers to any celestial body. The moon, sun, stars, and meteors, plus some aliens like Astel have all been called stars

Radahn changes day to night in the middle of his fight. Even if you argue he only ever stopped meteors, that isn’t any kind of cap as he moves celestial bodies during the phase transition


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## SSMG (Dec 25, 2022)

Fang said:


> Everything you said is literally regutirated nonsense that was debunked that you are repeating from SSMG's vomited nonsense, almost verbatim


Ahh but nothing I've said was debunked.  

It's just that the upper tiers are above even the best feats in opm, so why would I argue a pointless topic? 

But that seemingly isn't even the case.


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## Justiciar (Dec 25, 2022)

Fang said:


> I am not, you simply don't know what you are talking about.


Okay.


Fang said:


> Ah so once more, utilizing gameplay mechanics instead of lore to try and justify the size of a specific area from the lore with in-game locations.


Scale is not a gameplay mechanic, neither are the special animations of abilities.



Fang said:


> Also no, the size of Caelid in the game is not correspondent to the actual lore of the country. The Lands Between is a fucking cut-off mega continent that is isolated from the rest of the world.


That's pure headcanon. There's not one item description or piece of dialogue in the entire game that suggests any of that.



Fang said:


> The feats with the Outer Gods, Radahn holding and pushing back actual stars, Placidusax warping and altering time in Farum Azula, feats of Ranni and Rennala, etc...completely invalidate your nonsense.


More headcanon.

Radahn's "stars" were falling stars (more commonly known as meteors) this is verified in lore. Astal was entrapped in one of these falling stars that hit the Lands between a long time ago. And when Radhan is defeated a "star" strikes the forest creating a crater roughly 100 m in diameter, opening up the path to Nokstella.

But it doesn't really matter because Radahn can't really weaponize this in any way. And holding the stars in place isn't going to do shit to Garou.

Did Placidusax warp time though? Even if he can, he doesn't weaponize it. Also, Garou can time travel.

Ranni and Rennala have no notable feats whatsoever.



Fang said:


> Lanniseax and Fortisaxx both catch natural lightning with their hands.


It's a magic spell. They summon red-colored lightning into their hands to throw it. And nothing is implied to even occur at a notable fraction of the speed of sound.



Fang said:


> Radahn literally ventured into battling the stars, you are still completely wrong here.


What game did you play?



Fang said:


> Everything you said is literally regutirated nonsense that was debunked that you are repeating from SSMG's vomited nonsense, almost verbatim.


Nothing of what I've said is debunked.

You're sitting here spouting head-canon about a Berserk rip-off standing up against a casual planet-buster. You're delusional, there are no planet busters in Elden Ring.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 25, 2022)

thats great and all but you can see Radahn change day into night during his phase transition
it’s impossible to miss
can’t do that without fucking about with celestial bodies
there’s also the fact that it’s spelled out that he accomplishes this with the spell Collapsing Stars, the same spell he spams against the Tarnished consistently, so the idea that he can’t weaponize his own strength is ridiculous


said spell whether the falling ones are meteors or not have to be fast enough to intercept them either way


this is like the island level cell saga characters argument all over again


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## Justiciar (Dec 25, 2022)

OtherGalaxy said:


> star in elden ring refers to any celestial body. The moon, sun, stars, and meteors, plus some aliens like Astel have all been called stars


Not in the game I was playing.



OtherGalaxy said:


> Radahn changes day to night in the middle of his fight.


No he doesn't.

The Festival takes place at night.



OtherGalaxy said:


> Even if you argue he only ever stopped meteors, that isn’t any kind of cap as he moves celestial bodies during the phase transition


Who gives a shit? This is a specific spell that's used to halt the "stars" (whatever that means) he didn't use town-razing attacks against Malenia, and he certainly didn't use it against the player.

If he had a fraction of a percentage of the power you implied he did, he would've razed the Lands Between with a sword swing. So it doesn't even fit into the continuity.

Next you're going to tell me that Rennala's moon spell is moon-level.


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## JayK (Dec 25, 2022)

I will never understand how anyone can claim OPM is Solar System level.

That Void is clearly just the result of destroyed meteors.


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## JayK (Dec 25, 2022)

Also kudos for being 6 pages in and yet having new people come in stating the same illiterate garbage which has been debunked a million times.


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## Fang (Dec 25, 2022)

Justiciar said:


> Okay.


Yes.


Justiciar said:


> Scale is not a gameplay mechanic, neither are the special animations of abilities.


You literally tried to justify claiming the in-game locations as direct sizes and scales for ER's lands in the Lands Between. Don't even try and backpedal because that is a gameplay mechanic you are trying to abuse.


Justiciar said:


> That's pure headcanon. There's not one item description or piece of dialogue in the entire game that suggests any of that.


You never played the game I see.


Justiciar said:


> More headcanon.


Wrong.


Justiciar said:


> Radahn's "stars" were falling stars (more commonly known as meteors) this is verified in lore. Astal was entrapped in one of these falling stars that hit the Lands between a long time ago. And when Radhan is defeated a "star" strikes the forest creating a crater roughly 100 m in diameter, opening up the path to Nokstella.


The stars being held back were not meteors. Nothing in the game's story or lore even suggests this, you are simply suppositing falsely that because Radahn is killed and the falling meteors containing more Voidbeasts, Grey Lords, and the larger fragments blasted open the path in the earth to Nokstella, that all of the "stars" were meteors.

False equivalency argument.


Justiciar said:


> But it doesn't really matter because Radahn can't really weaponize this in any way. And holding the stars in place isn't going to do shit to Garou.


Except he did as numerous items and lore state this:



> _Greatbow of black iron wielded by General Radahn. Decorated with a lion mane motif._
> 
> _*Imbued with gravitational power of the Starscourge, when used along with Radahn's Spear, it becomes a true weapon of a champion. *_





> _Curved greatswords of black steel wielded by General Radahn. A pair of weapons decorated with a lion mane motif._
> 
> *Radahn earned considerable renown as the Starscourge in his youth, and it is said that it was during this time he engraved the gravity crest up these blades. *



You can stop lying now.


Justiciar said:


> Did Placidusax warp time though?


He did, proving again you didn't play the game or read any of the lore.


Justiciar said:


> Even if he can, he doesn't weaponize it. Also, Garou can time travel.


Garou isn't shit here so no.


Justiciar said:


> Ranni and Rennala have no notable feats whatsoever.


Wrong again.



Justiciar said:


> It's a magic spell. They summon red-colored lightning into their hands to throw it. And nothing is implied to even occur at a notable fraction of the speed of sound.


It isn't. Its literally natural lightning that is turned and bent into red lightning after they catch it. 

Why are you so full of it?




Justiciar said:


> What game did you play?


The actual one, unlike your claim to the contrary.


Justiciar said:


> Nothing of what I've said is debunked.
> 
> You're sitting here spouting head-canon about a Berserk rip-off standing up against a casual planet-buster. You're delusional, there are no planet busters in Elden Ring.


>tries to falsely claim misinformation as fact
>doesn't understand the difference between gameplay mechanics vs core  story/lore fluff elements
>argued Caelid in game is the same as the fluff version for distance and location 
>doesn't know how lightning works

Why are you coping this hard with the lies?


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## Fang (Dec 25, 2022)

Justiciar said:


> The Festival takes place at night.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Justiciar (Dec 25, 2022)

OtherGalaxy said:


> thats great and all but you can see Radahn change day into night during his phase transition
> it’s impossible to miss


The festival takes place at night. The red mist is just there from the Scarlet Rot, it doesn't mean it's day.

You can't fight Radhan during the day.




OtherGalaxy said:


> can’t do that without fucking about with celestial bodies


Even if we assume that the "stars" are more than just the meteors (that we see) it doesn't matter because there are no implications that he can use them in combat.



OtherGalaxy said:


> there’s also the fact that it’s spelled out that he accomplishes this with the spell Collapsing Stars, the same spell he spams against the Tarnished consistently, so the idea that he can’t weaponize his own strength is ridiculous


You're talking about a magical spell about the size of gym ball that pulls the player in if it connects justifies a made up feat (with no in-game or lore justification) many orders of magnitude beyond that.

It was never implied that he could weaponize the "stars". He didn't use this ability against Malenia and he can't use it against the Tarnished. Logical conclusion: He can't do it.



OtherGalaxy said:


> this is like the island level cell saga characters argument all over again


At the very least with Cell you have scaling arguments to planet level, and arguably the solar system statement. You have nothing like that in Elden Ring.


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## Fang (Dec 25, 2022)

JayK said:


> I will never understand how anyone can claim OPM is Solar System level.
> 
> That Void is clearly just the result of destroyed meteors.


Its the same gaggle of brainlets arguing the same things over and over that have be rebuked and rebutted but since they all possess the same dysfunction of being illiterate stone-walls, you can't actually logically demonstrate to them why they are wrong. Example being this clod comparing the explicit statement from Iji that the movement of stars being stopped was massively weakening Ranni and Rennala but somehow equated this with the meteors filled with alien life-forms that he still instinctively knew to keep away from the world as being the same thing.

Never mind the fact that the destinies and fates of the world and people, including the Gods and Demigods or even the Elden Lords, are constantly hammered in as being influenced or even predetermined by the "stars" which are filled with foreign cosmic entities and powers, not just aliens. The Greater Will, The Frenzied Flame, the Formless Mother, etc...are all beings that come from the stars.


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## Fang (Dec 25, 2022)

> _Well, well... Seluvis is not a name I ever wanted to hear again... But, fine. If it will help you, my apprentice, I offer my knowledge. *The stars alter the fate of the Carian royal family. And the fate of your mistress, Ranni.* But long ago, General Radahn challenged the swirling constellations, and in a crushing victory, arrested their cycles. Now, he is the force that repulses the stars. *If General Radahn were to die, the stars would resume their movement. And so, too, would Ranni's destiny.*_





> _An ephemeral sliver that gives off a pale amber glow.
> 
> What remains of a passing flash of starlight.
> 
> *If the stars command our fates, then amber-hued stars must command the fates of the gods.* Such is the belief that inspired the use of these shards to prepare a most special draught._



How idiots keep conflating Radahn pushing the stars away with a shower of meteors is beyond me.

Also the blast in Limgrave that creates the massive crater leading the way to Nokstella came from a blast of energy, not a meteorite that comes after Radahn's fall.


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## Justiciar (Dec 25, 2022)

Fang said:


> Yes.
> 
> You literally tried to justify claiming the in-game locations as direct sizes and scales for ER's lands in the Lands Between. Don't even try and backpedal because that is a gameplay mechanic you are trying to abuse.
> 
> ...


1. You're not backing up any of your arguments with evidence. This is literally just you pushing your Google docs head-canon. Show me game dialogue or item descriptions. If you can't do that then your argument are forfeit. If you're going to argue that Caelid is the size of a country and that the game-scale for the region is incorrect you need at least one piece of official evidence.

2. You think Rennala's moon is moon-level. A magical spell, that literally summons a gym-ball sized moon that drains the FP of the enemy if it connects, and causes virtually no AOE. This is so stupid I don't even know where to start. I posted the same clip as you did just to debunk what you said.

You don't have to be a genius to figure out that Elden Ring fights aren't at the same scale as One Punch Man fights. This is like comparing the Rurorin Kenshin to Dragonball. I mean Rurorin Kenshin would do a better job than the Tarnished at clearing the game.


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## Justiciar (Dec 25, 2022)

Fang said:


> Its the same gaggle of brainlets


If you were any further up your own ass you'd come up through your own mouth.

You think Rennala's Moon spell is moon level, the debate ends with that. Your sense of scale is so bad that you can't tell the difference between the size of a gym-ball and the fucking moon.



Fang said:


> How idiots keep conflating Radahn pushing the stars away with a shower of meteors is beyond me.


Because one of the stars "ends" up hitting Mistwood Ruins were it creates a 100 m crater.

And again, it's a spell, it doesn't have any utility. He didn't use your made-up abilities in any fight in any capacity. His actual combat related feats are at least 20 orders of magnitude of what you're suggesting they are.



Fang said:


> Also the blast in Limgrave that creates the massive crater leading the way to Nokstella came from a blast of energy, not a meteorite that comes after Radahn's fall.


This is some hardcore mental gymnastics.

This is what we see after Radhan is killed.



One of the star strikes Mistwood and leaves a small crater.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Fang (Dec 25, 2022)

Justiciar said:


> *snip*


I already did. So has @JayK and @OtherGalaxy multiple times throughout the thread well before you started your knee-jerk bullshit reactionary revisionism and conflated gameplay with lore.

You are obstinate, plain and simple.
You haven't said or done anything except display continually you don't know what you are talking about and are no different then the nonsense ad naseum that SSMG repeated earlier in the thread.
Nothing has changed here.

None of the meteors that fall after Radahn dies has anything to do with the fucking stars and you continue to idiotically parrot that they are the same when they are not. I've already posted the passages and quotes from the game itself that puts a nix on this and your repeating it so yes, this "debate" is over.


Justiciar said:


> *posts evidence proving my point*


Lmao

Fucking lmao


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## Justiciar (Dec 25, 2022)

Fang said:


> I already did. So has @JayK and @OtherGalaxy multiple times throughout the thread well before you started your knee-jerk bullshit reactionary revisionism and conflated gameplay with lore.
> 
> You are obstinate, plain and simple.


You're free to recite that if you want to, because I haven't seen it.



Fang said:


> Lmao


This is why I'm not really much for arguing against fanboys. Because no matter what you say, they'll continue to argue that "1 + 1 = 3" no matter what you say.

When you start conflate Rennala's Moon for an actual moon feat then you're so far left of the Bell Curve that nothing you say should hold any merit.


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## JayK (Dec 25, 2022)

Or you could just look up the very thread you are posting in instead of being an ignorant twat.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fang (Dec 25, 2022)

Justiciar said:


> You're free to recite that if you want to, because I haven't seen it.


Sounds like a personal problem from someone whose repeating another poster's verbatim rebuked arguments.


Justiciar said:


> This is why I'm not really much for arguing against fanboys.


This is the third or fourth time you've come in the thread with these kind of posts, with a clear and biased agenda, with the intent of poisoning the well repeatedly. No one is giving you any credibility the more you continue to act this way when you've been proven wrong repeatedly.

You've already demonstrated multiple times you dislike ER and attempted to denigrate it and its supporters by calling it a cheap Berserk knock-off and other stupid shit.


Justiciar said:


> Because no matter what you say, they'll continue to argue that "1 + 1 = 3" no matter what you say.


Except that isn't the case.


Justiciar said:


> When you start conflate Rennala's Moon for an actual moon feat then you're so far left of the Bell Curve that nothing you say should hold any merit.


Says the guy who argued in game Caelid's size is representative of its actual size in the lore
Says the guy who argued the meteors being held back by Radahn are the same stars that were fucking up all of fate in ER's world or the fact the dimension Ranni was using to create stars and an entire localized dimension with constellations is somehow nothing.


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## Justiciar (Dec 25, 2022)

Is this the what you're talking about.

Because this is some meme-level shit.



Because this is the actual feat we're looking at.


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 25, 2022)

Justiciar said:


> Not in the game I was playing.





Justiciar said:


> No he doesn't.
> 
> 
> The Festival takes place at night.


no it doesn’t lol
this is what night looks like in Caelid and during Phase 2
you can find footage of players starting the Radahn Festival at night and the boss fight still starting during the day, it’s coded to always start Phase 1 in Caelid’s day
2:22

and then in phase 2, the entire sky changes to night with the full moon visible, none of the signature red Caelid daytime visible


Justiciar said:


> Who gives a shit? This is a specific spell that's used to halt the "stars" (whatever that means) he didn't use town-razing attacks against Malenia, and he certainly didn't use it against the player.


>stated to stop stars and constellations
>stated to use Collapsing Stars spell to do this
>uses same spell on player constantly

do you not understand an attack can be more concentrated? a bullet has more energy than me swinging a hammer at a sheet of metal but creates a smaller area of effect

this isn’t an ER thing, most action series have this
Luffy isn’t destroying islands with casual punches, Goku isn’t wrecking galaxies in DBS every time he swings his arm


Justiciar said:


> If he had a fraction of a percentage of the power you implied he did, he would've razed the Lands Between with a sword swing. So it doesn't even fit into the continuity.


already addressed


Justiciar said:


> Next you're going to tell me that Rennala's moon spell is moon-level.


nothing to do with anything ive said


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 25, 2022)

by the way, there is one item you could use to try and argue they aren’t real stars, but I haven’t seen it brought up in this thread bc the detractors clearly don’t actually know the lore that well and it still wouldn’t invalidated Radahn’s phase change


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## Justiciar (Dec 25, 2022)

JayK said:


> Or you could just look up the very thread you are posting in instead of being an ignorant twat.


I've 100% the game (not only the Platinum, I've killed every boss on the map, done every quest, etc.) I've heard every piece of dialogue and read pretty much every item description.

I know you're full of shit. And I don't have to waste any time to find your hidden arguments that you refuse to present.



Fang said:


> Sounds like a personal problem


No. If you don't want to post your source then you lose the debate.



Fang said:


> This is the third or fourth time you've come in the thread with these kind of posts, with a clear and biased agenda, with the intent of poisoning the well repeatedly. No one is giving you any credibility the more you continue to act this way when you've been proven wrong repeatedly.


You talk a lot of shit for someone who hasn't posted a single piece of evidence.

Also, it's funny that you accuse me of poisoning the well when you're doing it in the exact same sentence. I'm a huge Souls-fan, been with it since Dark Souls on the 360, if you think I have any bias _against_ the Souls series, then you don't know shit. Furthermore, Elden Ring is my favorite game of all time.

So why aren't I wanking the game? Because I'm not stupid. I still understand the scale the game operates on, and that it's not really comparable to action shonen.



Fang said:


> You've already demonstrated multiple times you dislike ER


Kek.



Fang said:


> and attempted to denigrate it and its supporters by calling it a cheap Berserk knock-off and other stupid shit.


It is a cheap Berkserk knock-off, "borrowing" heavily from Miyazaki's work. That doesn't mean I dislike it. But even if I did it wouldn't matter, because facts are facts.



Fang said:


> Says the guy who argued in game Caelid's size is representative of its actual size in the lore
> Says the guy who argued the meteors being held back by Radahn are the same stars that were fucking up all of fate in ER's world or the fact the dimension Ranni was using to create stars and an entire localized dimension with constellations is somehow nothing.


You've still presented 0 evidence to the contrary.

Those are the facts.


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## SoulOfCinder (Dec 25, 2022)

You're not gonna tell me of all the celestial bodies moving at Radahn's defeat, that some of them weren't stars. And it's been confirmed that Ranni created a dimension with a bunch of stars as well. And who cares if he doesn't have those stars in this match. His magic was still strong enough to hold all of them in place so he obviously scales to that level


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## JayK (Dec 25, 2022)

I have 40 posts in this thread and this guy wants to tell me I refuse to present arguments and evidence.

Some people seriously be thinking ignorance wins them debates while at the same time spreading misinformation with 0 basis.


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## Fang (Dec 25, 2022)

Justiciar said:


> Those are the facts.


You've posted literally nothing and didn't read anything I've nor the others have posted rebuking everything you said. You are up your own ass with the ego claiming a thread that's been going on and off for weeks with the same things you've claimed being countered earlier are somehow irrelevant because you can't be assed to look at them.

Dude, get out of here.

The rest of what I still said also holds true with your endless winning about ER "fanboys" and the other stupid comments you've made displaying your bias about the game.


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## Justiciar (Dec 25, 2022)

OtherGalaxy said:


> lol
> this is what night looks like in Caelid and during Phase 2
> you can find footage of players starting the Radahn Festival at night and the boss fight still starting during the day, it’s coded to always start Phase 1 in Caelid’s day
> 2:22


What are you talking about, the Radahn Festival takes place at night. You enter the fight at night. If you die you return to the portal at night. However the fight is presented visually in relation to Caelid's overall design doesn't matter. Because canonically the Radhan fight takes place over a night (the Radahn Festival).



OtherGalaxy said:


> >stated to stop stars and constellations
> >stated to use Collapsing Stars spell to do this
> >uses same spell on player constantly


Yes, tell me how the Collapsing Star spell is planet level+. Tell me how one use of the spell completely disintegrates the planet. It never happens.



OtherGalaxy said:


> do you not understand an attack can be more concentrated?


Of course, a regular steel sword can be planet level it's just "concentrated." Nowhere in the game is this explained or even alluded to, but trust me steel swords strike with enough force to blow away the planet.

This is not how vs debating works.



OtherGalaxy said:


> a bullet has more energy than me swinging a hammer at a sheet of metal but creates a smaller area of effect


Are you dense? Do you not know high school physics.

You're talking about the concentration of force over area (or pressure) which can be used to determine whether or not a projective can puncture an object. But this doesn't ignore the conservation of energy. *If either the bullet or hammer carries enough energy it will create an explosion, and if it carries a high enough energy it will disintegrate the planet.* And you have nothing close to this in Elden Ring. Anyone who plays the game (and has an IQ > 60) can tell you that the Tarnished can't destroy planets.



OtherGalaxy said:


> Luffy isn’t destroying islands with casual punches, Goku isn’t wrecking galaxies in DBS every time he swings his arm


That's because they can't do it like that.


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## Justiciar (Dec 25, 2022)

SoulOfCinder said:


> You're not gonna tell me of all the celestial bodies moving at Radahn's defeat, that some of them weren't stars.


Until you present evidence of the contrary, yes. The "star rain" that followed Radahn's defeat looked more like shooting stars than actual stars.

Here's a picture of a shooting star (meteorite) for reference.



And here's the scene again.





SoulOfCinder said:


> And it's been confirmed that Ranni created a dimension with a bunch of stars as well.


You mean Rennala's illusions during the boss fight?



SoulOfCinder said:


> And who cares if he doesn't have those stars in this match.


Feats are kind of relevant.



SoulOfCinder said:


> His magic was still strong enough to hold all of them in place so he obviously scales to that level


Spells don't work like that. Just because you have a spell that puts the "stars" in stasis doesn't mean that you can use that energy in any other way. Just like you can't use Flame Sling spell to cool a glass of water.

Garou was about to destroy Earth in his clash with Saitama, and he was able to survive Saitama's punches after Saitama's sneeze razed Jupiter. Elden Ring is nowhere near that level.


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## Juan (Dec 25, 2022)

when did i log into spacebattles

tf


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## Justiciar (Dec 25, 2022)

JayK said:


> I have 40 posts in this thread and this guy wants to tell me I refuse to present arguments and evidence.


Right. If you tell me that you've posted evidence in "some thread somewhere" and you refuse to tell me where this supposed evidence is, then it doesn't matter.

When I ask you to substantiate your case you have to do it. And if you fail to do so you lose the debate.



JayK said:


> Some people seriously be thinking ignorance wins them debates while at the same time spreading misinformation with 0 basis.


If you actually have any evidence then you're a terrible debater. Take your pick.


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## JayK (Dec 25, 2022)

In _some thread somewhere._

Jesus fucking christ


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## Fang (Dec 25, 2022)

JayK said:


> I have 40 posts in this thread and this guy wants to tell me I refuse to present arguments and evidence.
> 
> Some people seriously be thinking ignorance wins them debates while at the same time spreading misinformation with 0 basis.


He won't answer or respond to anything any of us have posted earlier because he is avoiding them due to pure cowardice. That's always how it ends up going with these types of posters. And I'm 99% certain this dude is a fucking VSBer as well.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Justiciar (Dec 25, 2022)

Justiciar said:


> Here's a picture of a shooting star (meteorite) for reference.
> 
> 
> 
> And here's the scene again.


Another note on this.

All these "stars" literally had tails. Stars don't have tails and neither do planets.



So now the star argument is officially debunked.


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## Justiciar (Dec 25, 2022)

JayK said:


> In _some thread somewhere._
> 
> Jesus fucking christ


If it's in the thread, just press "quote" and then press "post reply." Two clicks on your part, but instead you decide to exert more effort  bitching than actually posting the evidence. Which leads me to believe that you don't think your "evidence" would hold up.

Again, I've played through this game a dozen times or so, killed all of the bosses, heard all of the dialogue, and read almost every item description. Could there have been something that I've missed or can't recall? Sure. Could there be anything to substantiate Elden Ring being anywhere close to One Punch Man-level? No.

Reactions: Old 2


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 25, 2022)

Justiciar said:


> What are you talking about, the Radahn Festival takes place at night. You enter the fight at night. If you die you return to the portal at night. However the fight is presented visually in relation to Caelid's overall design doesn't matter. Because canonically the Radhan fight takes place over a night (the Radahn Festival).


the fights visuals dont matter but other visuals you prefer do

sure makes sense

explain why it changes from day to night in the middle of the fight, explain why the fight _always starts_ with the visuals of Caelid’s day cycle and then changes to night with the moon visible and all mid fight


Justiciar said:


> Yes, tell me how the Collapsing Star spell is planet level+. Tell me how one use of the spell completely disintegrates the planet. It never happens.


because we see him move celestial objects mid fight and are told he’s used it to stop the constellations by characters that explicitly spend their time studying space


Justiciar said:


> Of course, a regular steel sword can be planet level it's just "concentrated." Nowhere in the game is this explained or even alluded to, but trust me steel swords strike with enough force to blow away the planet.


are you actually dumb enough to argue all from games are wall level because you can beat them with your fists and no armor?

is that where you wanna go with this?


Justiciar said:


> This is not how vs debating works.


this is extremely funny coming from someone who rarely if ever contributes anything at all to discussions beyond acting like they’re better than everyone here


Justiciar said:


> Are you dense? Do you not know high school physics.
> 
> You're talking about the concentration of force over area (or pressure) which can be used to determine whether or not a projective can puncture an object. But this doesn't ignore the conservation of energy. *If either the bullet or hammer carries enough energy it will create an explosion, and if it carries a high enough energy it will disintegrate the planet.* And you have nothing close to this in Elden Ring. Anyone who plays the game (and has an IQ > 60) can tell you that the Tarnished can't destroy planets.


and one of those will pierce the metal and the other won’t
if the hypothetical blunt force object and a piercing object using a smaller surface area both with planet energy hit something the effects are going to be different 

anyone with eyes can see Radahn changes day to night but here we are arguing this still




Justiciar said:


> That's because they can't do it like that.


and yet they’re still universe level characters, this isn’t an argument this is just you saying it’s fine for one series and not another

it’s the island level cell saga argument all over again

destructo disc cutting through Frieza but not destroying the planet etc

either dragon ball characters aren’t universe level because their shots don’t disintegrate everything around them every time by your logic or they are but Radahn’s shifting is valid too

your stance is not consistent if you allow one but not the other


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## Qinglong (Dec 25, 2022)

Even Gameplay only Godrick would fucking paste Kenshin

That statement is unironically dumber than spergbattles

also fuck you for making me actually have to post this

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Fang (Dec 25, 2022)

Let's recap on why Justicar is a clown:

- Ranni's status as an Empyrean and potential successor to the current Empyrean and Goddess (Marika the Eternal) representing the Greater Will is halted and frozen because her fate is being denied due to Radahn's gravity magic halting the movement of all the stars
- Radahn is stated to have mastered gravity magic including a spell called Halting Stars; which was used to freeze the stars and operates as a ranged magical ability and technique (something he also used to hold off all those thousands of thousands of meteors and comets carrying more Grey Lords and Voidbeasts)
- The technique and Radahn by association by their very nature have to be FTL to reach stars in other parts of the universe not just the ones immediate in AU distance of the ER's own star
- Sellen who is the most knowledgeable on primeval sorcery and magic as she was the favorite and greatest student of Azur and Lusat  (and implied to have been prepared to be the Raya Lucaria Academy's next headmaster until Rennala showed up and took over all of Caria, hence her grudge against the long-standing royal family) and is an expert on primeval sorcery including glintstone magics states:


> _Well, well... Seluvis is not a name I ever wanted to hear again... But, fine. If it will help you, my apprentice, I offer my knowledge. *The stars alter the fate of the Carian royal family. And the fate of your mistress, Ranni.* But long ago, General Radahn challenged the swirling constellations, and in a crushing victory, arrested their cycles. Now, he is the force that repulses the stars. *If General Radahn were to die, the stars would resume their movement. And so, too, would Ranni's destiny.*_


But sure, the Outer God who seems technically, at the very least, preeminent over its contemparies i.e. The Greater Will, who can command stars, send an eldritch divine entity across the universe to ER, alter fate and destiny, manipulate causality and destiny, and certainly scales above Radahn's feat, is definitely full of shit when it feared its sibling Outer Gods taking influence over the world or the fact mortals could already craft weapons like the Noxstellan humans did to slay even an Outer God.

This makes the absurdity of trying to utilize gameplay mechanics to downplay the verse even dumber.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Justiciar (Dec 25, 2022)

OtherGalaxy said:


> the fights visuals dont matter but other visuals you prefer do


You mean like the attack animations? Even if you want to accuse me of cherry-picking for rejecting for rejecting the scenery transition for a fight that canonically occurs over a night, you're cherry-picking everything else. "Attack animations don't matter," "feats and combat styles don't matter."

I'm not sure what to tell you. You've convinced yourself that the Tarnished is moving around at the speed of light, striking with enough force to disintegrate stars and planets, and the only reason the game seems to occur at normal speed and swords bounce off stone walls is because the attacks are concentrated. It's delusional.



OtherGalaxy said:


> explain why it changes from day to night in the middle of the fight, explain why the fight _always starts_ with the visuals of Caelid’s day cycle and then changes to night with the moon visible and all mid fight


It's a cool visual effect to set to set up the second phase.

In canon, the Radahn Festival occurs over one night. But you're presupposing that it starts during the day (so that it can transition into night).

But the funny thing is, even if we were to ignore canon and accept you interpretation. It doesn't change anything. Changing day to night is not something Radahn can weaponize for combat.



OtherGalaxy said:


> because we see him move celestial objects mid fight


No we don't. Do you even know what a Celestial object is?



OtherGalaxy said:


> and are told he’s used it to stop the constellations by characters that explicitly spend their time studying space


No one is arguing that he suspended a bunch of comets. We know that. The problem is he can't use these comets in a fight. And his actual fights are like 20 orders of magnitude of what you believe.



OtherGalaxy said:


> are you actually dumb enough to argue all from games are wall level because you can beat them with your fists and no armor?


No. In certain games you can make good arguments for walls being indestructible due to game mechanics. And certain bosses can destroy parts of the environment.

But this doesn't change the fact that you're trying to argue that cross-bows pack planet-star level energies despite the fact that it's never shown or alluded to.



OtherGalaxy said:


> this is extremely funny coming from someone who rarely if ever contributes anything at all to discussions beyond acting like they’re better than everyone here


It's kind of hard to not act better than people who can't tell the difference between the size of a gym-ball and the literal moon. It's not even a matter of humility at that point.



OtherGalaxy said:


> and one of those will pierce the metal and the other won’t


That depends. But it's also completely irrelevant.



OtherGalaxy said:


> if the hypothetical blunt force object and a piercing object using a smaller surface area both with planet energy hit something the effects are going to be different


Yes, and there's a science behind it. You're trying to pass this off as "it's magic don't think about it."

But fact of the matter is that if either the bullet or the hammer carried relativistic energies they'd cause an explosion.



OtherGalaxy said:


> it’s the island level cell saga argument all over again
> destructo disc cutting through Frieza but not destroying the planet etc


I already addressed this. There are other planet-level feats in DBZ you can point to. There are 0 planet level feats in Elden Ring period.



OtherGalaxy said:


> either dragon ball characters aren’t universe level because their shots don’t disintegrate everything around them every time by your logic or they are but Radahn’s shifting is valid too


Zeno destroyed universes. There's a frame of reference that allows us to implement this scale.


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## Justiciar (Dec 25, 2022)

Qinglong said:


> Even Gameplay only Godrick would fucking paste Kenshin


Kenshin is way too fast, that's not even a debate.



Qinglong said:


> That statement is unironically dumber than spergbattles
> 
> also fuck you for making me actually have to post this


You don't have to post anything. You clearly have nothing of value to contribute. You're just wasting your time and mine.


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## Qinglong (Dec 25, 2022)

Kenshin would get fucking pasted by Godrick's blows and would do shit to hurt him

Yeah, I'm wasting my time arguing with a disingenuous dumbass, so instead I'll mock you and call it day. Go fuck yourself, and don't have a nice day

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Justiciar (Dec 25, 2022)

Fang said:


> Let's recap on why Justicar is a clown:


Please do.



Fang said:


> - Ranni's status as an Empyrean and potential successor to the current Empyrean and Goddess (Marika the Eternal) representing the Greater Will is halted and frozen because her fate is being denied due to Radahn's gravity magic halting the movement of all the stars


Yes, stars that are canonically represented by comets.



Fang said:


> - Radahn is stated to have mastered gravity magic including a spell called Halting Stars; which was used to freeze the stars and operates as a ranged magical ability and technique (something he also used to hold off all those thousands of thousands of meteors and comets carrying more Grey Lords and Voidbeasts)


Right, a spell with no other purpose than holding the "stars" in place.



Fang said:


> - The technique and Radahn by association by their very nature have to be FTL to reach stars in other parts of the universe not just the ones immediate in AU distance of the ER's own star


They're not real stars. They have dust tails, they're falling stars (comets).



Fang said:


> - Sellen who is the most knowledgeable on primeval sorcery and magic as she was the favorite and greatest student of Azur and Lusat  (and implied to have been prepared to be the Raya Lucaria Academy's next headmaster until Rennala showed up and took over all of Caria, hence her grudge against the long-standing royal family) and is an expert on primeval sorcery including glintstone magics states:


Yes and "holding the the 'stars' to suspect destiny " has no combat-application whatsoever.



Fang said:


> But sure, the Outer God who seems technically, at the very least, preeminent over its contemparies i.e. The Greater Will, who can command stars, send an eldritch divine entity across the universe to ER, alter fate and destiny, manipulate causality and destiny, and certainly scales above Radahn's feat, is definitely full of shit when it feared its sibling Outer Gods taking influence over the world or the fact mortals could already craft weapons like the Noxstellan humans did to slay even an Outer God.


I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Nothing here suggests that any of the deities, or the outer gods could destroy a planet.

All the Greater Will ever did was seal off the Lands Between from the outside world and created the Elden Ring with Marika, which came with the magical rules for the land.



Fang said:


> This makes the absurdity of trying to utilize gameplay mechanics to downplay the verse even dumber.


You want to detach the presentation from the story as a whole. That doesn't work.

If the Tarnished was intended to be capable of razing the lands between by swinging his fist (like Garou could) then they'd make a different game.


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## Fang (Dec 25, 2022)

Justiciar said:


> Please do.


Already did that, VSB/SB kun.


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## Justiciar (Dec 25, 2022)

Qinglong said:


> Kenshin would get fucking pasted by Godrick's blows and would do shit to hurt him


What are you talking about? Godrick can't touch Kenshin. Kenshin cut a clay cannon ball fired at him in half on reaction.

There's no implication whatsoever that the Tarnished is moving any faster than a normal human. The sound designs, the jumps, ... everything points to it occurring in real time.



Qinglong said:


> Yeah, I'm wasting my time arguing with a disingenuous dumbass, so instead I'll mock you and call it day. Go fuck yourself, and don't have a nice day


Imagine getting this mad about being wrong.



Fang said:


> Already did that, VSB/SB kun.


If that was it then I'm disappointed.

Maybe we'll get to see some planet busting in the DLC. Although I wouldn't hold my breath. It's just not that kind of game.


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## Justiciar (Dec 25, 2022)

To me it's astonishing how people literally believe that the Tarnished is sweeping across the Lands Between at FTL speeds, swinging his steel sword with enough energy to blow away stars, and being protected by armor (fashioned out of leather or steel) from similar blows.

And the mental gymnastics comes down to "we don't see it in real time," "the energy is concentrated," "physics works different," (none of which are actually substantiated in-game).

It's so far detached from common sense that delusion isn't sufficient to discredit it.


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## Fang (Dec 25, 2022)

^Still doesn't acknowledge he's wrong on everything he's claimed but since he's from SB/VSB, bowing out gracefully isn't a thing to those kind of people.


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## Justiciar (Dec 25, 2022)

Fang said:


> ^Still doesn't acknowledge he's wrong on everything he's claimed


Dude, I'm not the one who managed to convince himself that a spell that summons gym-ball sized moon that has virtually no AoE is literal moon-level.



Fang said:


> but since he's from SB/VSB,


I post on neither of those boards.



Fang said:


> bowing out gracefully isn't a thing to those kind of people.


It wouldn't be right of me to pretend that I'm wrong when I'm not.

I've addressed all of your arguments, and you failed to respond to my counter arguments. You've lost the debate. At this point all you have for me is spite, and it's not worth my time.


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## Fang (Dec 25, 2022)

Justiciar said:


> Dude, I'm not the one who managed to convince himself that a spell that summons gym-ball sized moon that has virtually no AoE is literal moon-level.


Now your conflating different people with different posts and claims. Neat.


Justiciar said:


> I post on neither of those boards.


Doubt it.


Justiciar said:


> It wouldn't be right of me to pretend that I'm wrong when I'm not.


Except you are. And given how you entered the thread, your remarks to me, JayK, OtherGalaxy, and Qing as well as general supporters of Elden Ring in this match up, you have already indicated you will happily poison the well multiple times.

So yes, of course someone like you whose stone-walling, lying through their teeth and playing semantics with obfuscation will naturally deny being wrong by dint of the exertion itself.


Justiciar said:


> I've addressed all of your arguments, and you failed to respond to my counter arguments. You've lost the debate. At this point all you have for me is spite, and it's not worth my time.


You didn't address anything. You repeated the same ad naseum bullshit that was debunked multiple times earlier, and then continued to apply the same nonsense over and over again. Who do you think you are fooling here, dipshit?

A "meteor" struck the area where Nokstella is buried beneath the crust and surface of Limgrave, that happens to have zero debris, mass, and is produced like a fucking ball of energy? Or was it your claim that Blaidd knows more and better knowledge on Primeval Sorcery then Sellen and Seluvis? The Primeval Current is literally the energy of the universe and all of the cosmos, not gay ass meteories and comets despite your intent to the contrary being proven wrong multiple times.

Ranni, Rennala, and other magic users who follow in their footsteps with Primeval Current magic or Lunar magic were completely prevented from being or operating at full power as numerous statements from characters and items detail Radahn stopped the movement of constellations of stars, not simply meteors over ER's world.

Ergo you are obstinate, a troll, and a shitposter in one single neat package.

Saying you "debunked" and counter-argued things you failed to actually rebuke isn't proving anything to anyone. You are no different then SSMG or 4th Reiatsu; someone who repeats themselves over and over in the vain belief your fallacious arguments and supposition supersedes what the game, its lore, and characters show and tell us.

Get out of here.


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## Qinglong (Dec 25, 2022)

Fang said:


> Already did that, VSB/SB kun.



Nah, he's unironically dumber than SB is



> Lifting the first door. It sort of passes without mention (except in the comedic manga where the main character bitches about how heavy it is), but the PC just  to get out of their tomb (material confirmed by hitting it; it sparks) and then does the same thing many other times throughout the game.
> 
> The door is a rectangle with dimensions of 200 cm x 410 cm x ~40 cm (it's about as thick as the Tarnished's shoulder width). That puts volume at 3.28 m^3, or 26 tons if it's iron. That's a pretty straightforward clean and jerk.
> 
> ...



Even going "gameplay only" like he's stupidly trying to argue would still mean a literal fresh Tarnished can lift a 26 ton door and send a 3 ton jar flying in a single blow


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## Fang (Dec 25, 2022)

Qinglong said:


> Nah, he's unironically dumber than SB is
> 
> 
> 
> Even going "gameplay only" like he's stupidly trying to argue would still mean a literal fresh Tarnished can lift a 26 ton door and send a 3 ton jar flying in a single blow


Same logic we can also apply to Metal Gear Solid 2's Raiden tanking RPG rounds to the face and eating machine gun fire like its nothing. Remember this is the same dude who argued in-game Caelid is canonically the same size as it is in lore, despite game engine constraints and scaling not being remotely a direct 1;1 parity that anyone with half a fucking functioning brain could figure out.

But ouch, worse then a SpergBattler is bad.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Qinglong (Dec 25, 2022)

Yeah this is the same stupidity some people on SB have tried to use to argue arrow level Kratos

or FF7's planet is the size of a small country


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## Fang (Dec 25, 2022)

Qinglong said:


> Yeah this is the same stupidity some people on SB have tried to use to argue arrow level Kratos
> 
> or FF7's planet is the size of a small country


Still funny someone who is denoted as the greatest expect and successor to the founders of Astrology and Primeval Current sorceries, Sellen, is somehow wrong because Blaidd, who has no idea about magic in any specific form, makes a generic statement after Radahn's death. Even though Sellen and all other characters and items state Primeval Current derives its powers from the literal stars which we know Gods reside in like The Greater Will, but gets turned into "meteors" because this guy says so.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 25, 2022)

dont really have time to keep this up on christmas of all days but i saw nothing there explaining the Phase Transition, which anyone can pretty plainly see in the 40 second vid i linked a page ago. “it’s there just to look cool” isnt an argument


i got nothing more to say, have fun


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## Justiciar (Dec 25, 2022)

Fang said:


> Now your conflating different people with different posts and claims. Neat.


No, that was your argument.



Fang said:


> Doubt it.


I couldn't care less.



Fang said:


> Except you are. And given how you entered the thread, your remarks to me, JayK, OtherGalaxy, and Qing as well as general supporters of Elden Ring in this match up, you have already indicated you will happily poison the well multiple times.


I'm not poisoning the well, you literally have to believe that the Tarnished is moving around at the speed of light and bust stars with his steel sword for your warped interpretation of the game to make sense.



Fang said:


> So yes, of course someone like you whose stone-walling, lying through their teeth and playing semantics with obfuscation will naturally deny being wrong by dint of the exertion itself.


You failed to respond to my counter arguments. That's it.



Fang said:


> You didn't address anything. You repeated the same ad naseum bullshit that was debunked multiple times earlier, and then continued to apply the same nonsense over and over again. Who do you think you are fooling here, dipshit?


Just because you refuse to acknowledge my argument doesn't make them any less factual.

Let's go back to the root of your misconception of the game, Radahn's "stars." All of them had dust tails. This proves (beyond any reason of doubt) that they were falling stars/comments. 

The average comet weighs about 5 billion tons.

An actual star is on average half the mass of the Sun, or 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 billion tons. And that's just one star.

I said that you were roughly 20 orders of magnitude wrong (before I even checked out the numbers) but you're actually 27 orders of magnitude off.

On top of that it's not a combat applicable ability. It's a spell that holds the "stars" in place. That's all it does. That's all it can do.

And if we look at Radahn's feats they're not even close to the blast that the comet that hit Mistword created.



Fang said:


> A "meteor" struck the area where Nokstella is buried beneath the crust and surface of Limgrave, that happens to have zero debris, mass, and is produced like a fucking ball of energy? Or was it your claim that Blaidd knows more and better knowledge on Primeval Sorcery then Sellen and Seluvis? The Primeval Current is literally the energy of the universe and all of the cosmos, not gay ass meteories and comets despite your intent to the contrary being proven wrong multiple times.


You're arguing against the visuals.



Fang said:


> Ranni, Rennala, and other magic users who follow in their footsteps with Primeval Current magic or Lunar magic were completely prevented from being or operating at full power as numerous statements from characters and items detail Radahn stopped the movement of constellations of stars, not simply meteors over ER's world.


No, they were only able to fulfill their destiny, because the movement of the "stars" had something to do with that.



Fang said:


> Ergo you are obstinate, a troll, and a shitposter in one single neat package.


I know that you feel that way, but your arguments have been debunked.



Fang said:


> Saying you "debunked" and counter-argued things you failed to actually rebuke isn't proving anything to anyone.


I'm just reminding you that you've not addressed my arguments.



Fang said:


> You are no different then SSMG or 4th Reiatsu; someone who repeats themselves over and over in the vain belief your fallacious arguments and supposition supersedes what the game, its lore, and characters show and tell us.


You literally think the Tarnished is riding across the Lands between at FTL speeds. That's not in the lore, game or anything else.


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## Justiciar (Dec 25, 2022)

Qinglong said:


> Nah, he's unironically dumber than SB is
> 
> 
> 
> Even going "gameplay only" like he's stupidly trying to argue would still mean a literal fresh Tarnished can lift a 26 ton door and send a 3 ton jar flying in a single blow


This calculation is wrong because Alexander is hollow and filled with human flesh, and the calculation assumes he's not hollow.

But either way if Alexander would've been launched into space in fragments if he was hit by a fraction of the energy you think the Tarnished is able to deliver.


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## JayK (Dec 25, 2022)

Next this guy is gonna argue RPG characters are all weak and slow as they gotta take turns attacking.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Qinglong (Dec 25, 2022)

It literally does say that you fucking dumbass 

I'm out, I got better things to do, like digesting good food


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## Justiciar (Dec 25, 2022)

Fang said:


> Same logic we can also apply to Metal Gear Solid 2's Raiden tanking RPG rounds to the face and eating machine gun fire like its nothing.


If you play on Easy mode (which is pretty much what your level of Intelligence can handle) then sure Raiden can tank those things in-game.

Play on European Extreme and Raiden takes 2 shots from an assault rifle before going down.



> Remember this is the same dude who argued in-game Caelid is canonically the same size as it is in lore,


Buddy, you've still provided 0 evidence for it's "size in lore." And I can tell you right now, nowhere is the size of Caelid (or any other region) actually described in any meaningful way. All we have to go by is its actual design.



> despite game engine constraints and scaling not being remotely a direct 1;1 parity that anyone with half a fucking functioning brain could figure out.


That doesn't allow you to make up your own size for the region.



Fang said:


> But ouch, worse then a SpergBattler is bad.


And you accuse me of poisoning the well...


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## Justiciar (Dec 25, 2022)

JayK said:


> Next this guy is gonna argue RPG characters are all weak and slow as they gotta take turns attacking.


No, because turn-based combat is an abstraction of what actually occurs.

Action RPG:s (just like FPS) portrays the actual combat. You could argue that there are minor abstractions made here as well, but you can't dismiss it altogether.


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## Qinglong (Dec 25, 2022)

JayK said:


> Next this guy is gonna argue RPG characters are all weak and slow as they gotta take turns attacking.




pictured: paper mache metal gear stalemated by sub bullet level Snake

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Justiciar (Dec 25, 2022)

Quing, if you're going to talk shit then don't pretend you're going to leave, and then stay.



Qinglong said:


> I'm out, I got better things to do, like digesting good food





Qinglong said:


> Yeah, I'm wasting my time arguing with a disingenuous dumbass, so instead I'll mock you and call it day. Go fuck yourself, and don't have a nice day


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## JayK (Dec 25, 2022)

The Saitama vs Garou fight clearly showed that neither's got super armor.

They'll just get perma staggered by Corpse Piler.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Fang (Dec 25, 2022)

Justiciar said:


> *snip for repeating the same debunked shit*


Every post from here-on to you:


Fang said:


> Now your conflating different people with different posts and claims. Neat.
> 
> Doubt it.
> 
> ...


K


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## Justiciar (Dec 25, 2022)

JayK said:


> The Saitama vs Garou fight clearly showed that neither's got super armor.
> 
> They'll just get perma staggered by Corpse Piler.


Poise is a game mechanic, as is bleed. These are some of the few instances of abstraction I was alluding to, if it wasn't obvious to you.



Fang said:


> Every post from here-on to you:


All of this is addressed here:


Justiciar said:


> No, that was your argument.
> 
> 
> I couldn't care less.
> ...


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## Fang (Dec 25, 2022)

JayK said:


> The Saitama vs Garou fight clearly showed that neither's got super armor.
> 
> They'll just get perma staggered by Corpse Piler.


He's in the same boat with the OPM wankers so its not really a surprise they try to over-inflate OPM.

"Star level Saitama"

lmao


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## Darth Nihilus (Dec 25, 2022)




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## Justiciar (Dec 25, 2022)

Fang said:


> He's in the same boat with the OPM wankers so its not really a surprise they try to over-inflate OPM.
> 
> "Star level Saitama"


Saitama is capable of destroying large planets, as made clear when he razed Jupiter with a sneeze. And that's roughly where I place him.

I imagine that's where most people place him, because he has the feats to back it up.

In contrast, the boss fights in Elden Ring don't even raze the rooms they take place in.


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## Fang (Dec 25, 2022)

@JayK remind me, our board consensus on the 1/9th Jupiter destruction was that it was an inconsistent outlier in its debut chapter and the subsequent one after indicated it was much smaller blast then initially imagined.


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## Justiciar (Dec 25, 2022)

Fang said:


> @JayK remind me, our board consensus on the 1/9th Jupiter destruction was that it was an inconsistent outlier in its debut chapter and the subsequent one after indicated it was much smaller blast then initially imagined.


OPM on-panel feats are outliers.
The Tarnished is an FTL star-buster head-canon still counts.

Reactions: Winner 3


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## Justiciar (Dec 25, 2022)

Just for reference, this is what Fang is talking about.



It's especially funny when you consider that the most epic feat in Elden Ring lore, only affected Caelid.

The entirety of the Lands between has been calculated from the in-game model to be 79 square kilometers (and this is all the evidence that exists for its size).



Eye-balling it and *being generous*, it looks to make up a fifth of the map. That would make Caelid 15.8 sqkm.

Which might seem impressive until you realize that Manhattan is 59.1 sqkm.



Here's also a size comparison between Jupiter and Earth.


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## JayK (Dec 25, 2022)

This scene is just there to look cool and is therefore invalid.


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## Fang (Dec 25, 2022)

JayK said:


> This scene is just there to look cool and is therefore invalid.


I like the part in the follow up chapter where all the wankers got blown out when ONE redid it and its like not even 1/10th the size of what it was.

Remember the little arc in here when a certain someone was jerking off Saitama claiming he could at will time travel permanently?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## JayK (Dec 25, 2022)

Can't post that panel tho cause it doesn't fit the agenda.


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## Justiciar (Dec 25, 2022)

There's not much here left to argue to be honest, and the detractors seem more interested in circle jerking each other than addressing any arguments.

And it's not like the Scarlet Rot was an energetic explosion, it's just a curse that mutated and rot things away. And it took down both Malenia and Radahn. If you limit it to explosions then Astel's meteor is probably the most destructive feat, maybe Hoarah Loux's Earth Shaker (he creates a fissure), but the explosions are about the size of a large room. Clearly not the planet-level feats they're aiming for.


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## JayK (Dec 25, 2022)

claims he 100% the game but doesnt know what the Scarlet Rot is


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## Justiciar (Dec 25, 2022)

JayK said:


> claims he 100% the game but doesnt know what the Scarlet Rot is


I know it's an outer god if that's what you're implying.

But I'm specifically referring to when Malenia brought down Caelid with it in her fight against Radahn.


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## Fang (Dec 25, 2022)

JayK said:


> claims he 100% the game but doesnt know what the Scarlet Rot is


Well he also claims Primeval Current/magic is related to meteors even though it directly draws its power from the literal cosmos and stars of the universe and that "meteor" magic is a directly separate spell with glintstone magic then Collapsing Stars. 

Kind of funny ngl.


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## Justiciar (Dec 25, 2022)

Well, I can with confidence say that I know more about the game than anyone in the thread I've argued with so far. This is why I could tell you that there's 0 evidence backing your head-canon size of Caelid.

Funny enough you still haven't addressed that.

Also what about Radahn's "stars" all having dust tails like "falling stars" or _comets_ do (planets and stars don't have dust tails).

Again, never addressed.

And these are just two of the many arguments you ran away from. And now you're mad and shit-talking me, which ironically brings a smile to my face.


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## Masterblack06 (Dec 25, 2022)

I mean, there are records of actual stars having Tails. Mira A and Mira B being a binary star system moving so fast that their stellar winds create Tails. 

So...you know. Stars can have tails


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## SSMG (Dec 25, 2022)

Fang said:


> "Star level Saitama"


Is this supposed to be an insult?

When the opposing sides argument would conclude that Goku is only peak human at best?

And you think this is the laughing stance?

Ouch. 

You've taken enough Ls repeatly in this topic, which is nothing new.

But this gift on Xmas is just too sweet.


So far seems like @Justiciar has effectively won this debate.


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## Voyeur (Dec 26, 2022)

The on screen feats for Elden Ring easily wash away the one fight for OPM that was retconned. 

The amount of stone walling here is hilarious.


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## Masterblack06 (Dec 26, 2022)

SSMG said:


> Is this supposed to be an insult?
> 
> When the opposing sides argument would conclude that Goku is only peak human at best?
> 
> ...


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Dec 26, 2022)

SSMG said:


> Is this supposed to be an insult?
> 
> When the opposing sides argument would conclude that Goku is only peak human at best?
> 
> ...


How much of a buck broken little bitch do you have to be to take on the effective cock gobbler role because someone else is fighting your battle for you?

Are you some kind of new age Rild?

Reactions: Winner 1 | Old 2


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## Juub (Dec 26, 2022)

I read all 8 paged and as I closely follow One-Punch man and went through an extensive study of Elden Ring’s lore, I’ll give my take that will no doubt settle this once and for all.

Be aware that this is a very long and well-knit argumentative text with multiple premises, arguments, and counter-arguments. I’ll put it behind a spoiler tag to avoid stretching the page.

Here we go.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Juub wins.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 1


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## SSMG (Dec 26, 2022)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> How much of a buck broken little bitch do you have to be to take on the effective cock gobbler role because someone else is fighting your battle for you?
> 
> Are you some kind of new age Rild?


I'm just drunk and high on Xmas enjoying a good debate.


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## AnimePhanatic (Dec 26, 2022)

So much _energy_ on Christmas, damn.

That said, Phoenix Man was able to create a spiritual dimension (Phoenix Space) which had its own temporal flow and was clearly in the day, indicating that his dimension had a sun too. Aaaaaaaaaaand Saitama broke into said dimension *with a knock*. Star level OPM is not new fellas. The signs have been there, Murata just never displayed it well. 


No wonder Serious Saitama would create a void in space along with Garou. If a casual knock could burst into a dimension with its own sun and timeflow, it's only natural.
Merry Christmas

Reactions: MAXIMUM 1


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## SSBMonado (Dec 26, 2022)

AnimePhanatic said:


> No wonder Serious Saitama would create a void in space along with Garou. If a casual knock could burst into a dimension with its own sun and timeflow, it's only natural.



That doesn't follow. Like, at all. Breaking into a dimension doesn't mean you have enough power to destroy some arbitrary object within that dimension.
E.g. Super Buu and SSJ3 Gotenks were able to break back into the main universe from the ROSAT by screaming a hole into space, but neither of them is considered universe level.

If Phoenix Man created that dimension with a proper sun himself, then that's a star level feat that Saitama would scale to for beating him. I very much doubt that's the case, though, since this shitstorm about Saitama's stats has been going on for months and this is the first time I've ever seen anyone bring up this character.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Dec 26, 2022)

@Justiciar 
While your responses begun as being legitimate, they've become increasingly ridiculous to the point of incredulity. Give it a rest or I'll give you one.

Happy Kwanza/Last Day of Chanukah

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Juub (Dec 26, 2022)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> @Justiciar
> Give it a rest or I'll give you one.


Be honest, how many times did you retype this to make sure it looked as cool as possible?

Sounds like a one-liner from a Schwarzenegger movie.

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Big Bob (Dec 26, 2022)

Would've been cooler to say you'd put him to rest.


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## SSMG (Dec 26, 2022)

SSBMonado said:


> If Phoenix Man created that dimension with a proper sun himself, then that's a star level feat


He did. 

 That other dimension/ space/ whatever... Is literally called Phoenix Space. The space itself is a reflection of his psyche. 

It also has its own time flow as Child Emperor stated only 3 seconds passed in the real world. 

It's never been brought up, atleast by myself anyway(can't speak for others) because I simply overlooked this feat. Not no more. Thank you @AnimePhanatic for highlighting this feat and bringing it some light. 


And @MusubiKazesaru you're joking right?  Look at how he is being treated itt for presenting his argument.... And he's the one who gets a warning?


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## SSMG (Dec 26, 2022)

Heck look at @GiveRobert20dollarss post to me. And no warning was given for that?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## AnimePhanatic (Dec 26, 2022)

SSBMonado said:


> I very much doubt that's the case, though, since this shitstorm about Saitama's stats has been going on for months and this is the first time I've ever seen anyone bring up this character.





SSMG said:


> It's never been brought up, atleast by myself anyway(can't speak for others) because I simply overlooked this feat


There you have it.


SSMG said:


> Thank you @AnimePhanatic for highlighting this feat and bringing it some light.





SSBMonado said:


> That doesn't follow. Like, at all. Breaking into a dimension doesn't mean you have enough power to destroy some arbitrary object within that dimension.


Maybe. However, he didn't TRY to break into the dimension. He heard people conversing in the separate dimension and knocked, the breaking into it was just a side effect.

If you knocked on a door with the intent to let the people inside know you're at the door but you busted the door, wouldn't you be able to destroy things inside the door if you actually exerted effort with intent to destroy, considering it's the same energy(material) that makes up the door and everything within, just on different scales?


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## Bakii (Dec 26, 2022)

Steven said:


> Starlevel Elden Ring lol
> 
> MC gets killed by some fodder monsters or bosses where cant even destroy a building


This man here is trolling hard, yeah the mc started weak af, but he ends up beating gods, and the creator of his verse, aka elden beast who imagined the reality where elden ring takes place, the same shit saitama did after he destroyed his reality with garou, but on a bigger scale.
Dunno where all this blind hate on elden ring even comes from lmao.


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## Bakii (Dec 26, 2022)

The main character in elden ring can be killed by any enemy ofc, the same with Kratos or 99,999% mcs from games, its a game ffs, why would you even compare that.


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## Fang (Dec 26, 2022)

Bakii said:


> This man here is trolling hard, yeah the mc started weak af, but he ends up beating gods, and the creator of his verse, aka elden beast who imagined the reality where elden ring takes place, the same shit saitama did after he destroyed his reality with garou, but on a bigger scale.
> Dunno where all this blind hate on elden ring even comes from lmao.


Elden Beast didn't create the universe.

Its a God but a subordinate one to the Greater Will, who sent the Elden Ring and Elden Beast into the Lands Between ages before the current events of the story.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Dec 26, 2022)

a lot of downplaying on both sides

saitama not being planet level is laughable


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## SoulOfCinder (Dec 26, 2022)

So in conclusion, star level OPM, multi galaxy level Elden Ring


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## JayK (Dec 26, 2022)

certainly more tame than peak human level Elden Ring and equating gameplay mechanics to lore


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## Bakii (Dec 26, 2022)

Fang said:


> Elden Beast didn't create the universe.
> 
> Its a God but a subordinate one to the Greater Will, who sent the Elden Ring and Elden Beast into the Lands Between ages before the current events of the story.


Elden Beast is a vassal for the Greater Will
Now looking at some dialogues from the game we can see the true power and magnitude of the Greater Will
_Hyetta: ”Thank... thank you... I have touched them. The words of the Three Fingers. As your maiden, allow me to divine them. All that there is came from the One Great. Then came fractures, and births, and souls. But the Greater Will made a mistake. Torment, despair, affliction... every sin, every curse. Every one, born of the mistake. And so, what was borrowed must be returned. Melt it all away, with the yellow chaos flame. Until all is One again.”_
Now if we compare the Elden Beast  with someone like Radahn(one of the first bosses) who stopped the motion of the stars, we can conclude that the Elden Ring universe is very strong when it comes to gods and demi-gods, and should not be underestimated, and imo someone like Garou cant beat Radahn.


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## SSBMonado (Dec 26, 2022)

The Greater Will is only one of several outer god type forces, vying for control of the world. There are 4 others we know of in game.

First, there was the dragons, with Placidusax serving as the Elden Lord of some unnamed outer god 
Secondly, the "fell god" of the fire giants
Thirdly, the rot god, who created the lake of rot and later infected Malenia before her birth
The Greater Will was the 4th outer god to "arrive" in the lands between. They set up their olden order and made war on the other outer gods already present, leading to the fire giants being defeated and the god of the dragons fleeing the world. 
When the Greater Will showed up, the rot god presumably was mostly passive until they chose Malenia as their new vessel.
And the for the 5th god, there's the "formless mother", who has been driven back by Mhog's death, at least for the time being.
It's also possible that Ranni's age to stars and the primal current are connected to other outer gods as well.


The point is that Greater Will didn't create the universe. Yeah, they and the other outer gods are extremely strong, but they are not universal.


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 26, 2022)

The Death Rite Birds also worship an Outer God, Mohg’s Formless Mother is one nvm you said thag, and iirc the Dark Moon is supposed to be too? Plus the Flame of Frenzy, there’s a lot of those things running around.


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## JayK (Dec 26, 2022)

The Dark Moon is an Outer God since that is how Ranni becomes the new goddess following Marika.

Then there is the Frenzied Flame which is hinted to be the most powerful of them all.


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## SSBMonado (Dec 26, 2022)

OtherGalaxy said:


> The Death Rite Birds also worship an Outer God, Mohg’s Formless Mother is one nvm you said thag, and iirc the Dark Moon is supposed to be too? Plus the Flame of Frenzy, there’s a lot of those things running around.


Bah, totally forgot about the 3 fingers. Yeah, that's another one.


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## Juub (Dec 26, 2022)

Bakii said:


> Elden Beast is a vassal for the Greater Will


The Greater Will didn't create the universe either.


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## Bakii (Dec 26, 2022)

Juub said:


> The Greater Will didn't create the universe either.


The story in the game (from the small interactions with the characters) says otherwise.


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## JayK (Dec 26, 2022)

The Outer Gods are all cosmic threats and are pretty petty in their nature so they are having a dick measuring contest in the Lands Between.

Only the Frenzied Flame is potentially hinted to have created the universe since we have some interesting statements on the topic:

_All that there is came from the One Great. Then came fractures, and births, and souls. But the Greater Will made a mistake. Torment, despair, affliction... every sin, every curse. Every one, born of the mistake. And so, what was borrowed must be returned. Melt it all away, with the yellow chaos flame. Until all is One again._


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 26, 2022)

it’s also the only outer god whose influence can actually destroy the erdtree, so it seems to be the strongest one besides the greater will itself


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## SSMG (Dec 26, 2022)

JayK said:


> All that there is came from the One Great


This implies universal creation no?


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## Bakii (Dec 26, 2022)

All life was blended together in the primordial crucible.
Who made the primordial crucible/the erdtree? The Greater Will, he cant be an outer god, when he is the one who creates and dictate the life/ the matter/ everything but the corruption from the outer gods.
Frenzied Flame is the strongest outer god in the game, we have even an ending where his corruption is successful.


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## JayK (Dec 26, 2022)

'All life' doesn't equate to universal creation.

There were also Outer Gods ruling the Lands Between prior to the Greater Will.


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## SoulOfCinder (Dec 26, 2022)

SSMG said:


> This implies universal creation no?


Do we have a definitive timespan? Because there are other characters from other series that don't get scaling because it takes a long time


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## JayK (Dec 26, 2022)

SoulOfCinder said:


> Do we have a definitive timespan?


Absolutely not.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## SSMG (Dec 26, 2022)

SoulOfCinder said:


> Do we have a definitive timespan? Because there are other characters from other series that don't get scaling because it takes a long time


Yeha thats true. 
And to answer your question.. I have no idea. I am not too well versed in Er lore. 

I'm sure others may be able to give moreinsight on any timeframes given or lack of.


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## SSMG (Dec 26, 2022)

JayK said:


> Absolutely not.


Gotcha.


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## Bakii (Dec 26, 2022)

JayK said:


> 'All life' doesn't equate to universal creation.
> 
> There were also Outer Gods ruling the Lands Between prior to the Greater Will.


What were they ruling? „all life„ is a result of the Greater Will, unless the game lies to us.


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 26, 2022)

pretty sure all life there is just referring to the life on the elden ring world

it’s very much demonstrated through physical traits like wings, tails, etc with the Misbegotten and the magic the Crucible Knights use


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## Juub (Dec 26, 2022)

Bakii said:


> All life was blended together in the primordial crucible.
> Who made the primordial crucible/the erdtree? The Greater Will, he cant be an outer god, when he is the one who creates and dictate the life/ the matter/ everything but the corruption from the outer gods.
> Frenzied Flame is the strongest outer god in the game, we have even an ending where his corruption is successful.


This doesn’t mean it created the universe.

We also know that prior to the Greater Will coming to the Lands Between, Placidusax was Elden Lord and served another Outer God.


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## SSBMonado (Dec 26, 2022)

The fact that the Golden Order demonizes aspects of the Crucible, like the Omens and Misbegotten, very much suggests that the Greater Will isn't responsible for it. 
In all likelihood, some version of the Erdtree existed long before the Greater Will arrived and the Elden Beast either took over or destroyed and recreated it. 

Hyetta, speaking for the 3 fingers, isn't a particularly reliable source. All the outer gods have one thing in common - they're all assholes. So odds are, the 3 fingers were simply lying to Hyetta in an attempt to manipulate her, and by extend you.


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## Bakii (Dec 26, 2022)

Juub said:


> This doesn’t mean it created the universe.
> 
> We also know that prior to the Greater Will coming to the Lands Between, Placidusax was Elden Lord and served another Outer God.


Elden Ring(the ring) existed before the Age of the Erdtree, as Placidusax was Elden Lord, so the Greater Will was active back then, dunno what outer god Placidusax served, but the Greater Will is the one responsible for creation in Elden Ring.


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 26, 2022)

there’s some kind of prototypal Elden Ring emblem in Farum Azula as well, so the elden ring itself does seem like it may predate the Erdtree/Crucible

I had initially just interpreted Placidusax’ elden lord title as allegorical, like it was the _equivalent_ to the role in its era, but the weird rootlike Elden Ring seems to imply the ring just dates back further than the Erdtree


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## JayK (Dec 26, 2022)

SSBMonado said:


> Hyetta, speaking for the 3 fingers, isn't a particularly reliable source. All the outer gods have one thing in common - they're all assholes. So odds are, the 3 fingers were simply lying to Hyetta in an attempt to manipulate her, and by extend you.


Lying about what?

She literally outright tells you what the Frenzied Flame does without any sugar coating on top.

Everything shall end in the flame and life ceases to exist. There are a lot of things the Frenzied Flame could have lied about to make it look less sinister.


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## SSMG (Dec 26, 2022)

Is there a time limit for that tho? If no time is given it could be a very gradual process.


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## JayK (Dec 26, 2022)

Its a gradual process.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Darth Nihilus (Dec 26, 2022)

This thread is a gradual process


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## MusubiKazesaru (Dec 26, 2022)

Juub said:


> Be honest, how many times did you retype this to make sure it looked as cool as possible?
> 
> Sounds like a one-liner from a Schwarzenegger movie.


One time without thinking about it after staying up all night.

Maybe I should write for movies

Reactions: Funny 1


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## MusubiKazesaru (Dec 26, 2022)

SSMG said:


> He did.
> 
> That other dimension/ space/ whatever... Is literally called Phoenix Space. The space itself is a reflection of his psyche.
> 
> ...


He's being given the warning because his arguments went from legitimate to increasingly absurd to the point of stonewalling, which is against the rules.


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## Fang (Dec 27, 2022)

Bakii said:


> Elden Beast is a vassal for the Greater Will
> Now looking at some dialogues from the game we can see the true power and magnitude of the Greater Will
> _Hyetta: ”Thank... thank you... I have touched them. The words of the Three Fingers. As your maiden, allow me to divine them. All that there is came from the One Great. Then came fractures, and births, and souls. But the Greater Will made a mistake. Torment, despair, affliction... every sin, every curse. Every one, born of the mistake. And so, what was borrowed must be returned. Melt it all away, with the yellow chaos flame. Until all is One again.”_
> Now if we compare the Elden Beast  with someone like Radahn(one of the first bosses) who stopped the motion of the stars, we can conclude that the Elden Ring universe is very strong when it comes to gods and demi-gods, and should not be underestimated, and imo someone like Garou cant beat Radahn.


The Elden Beast is a vassal i.e. subordinate of the Greater Will, but it is still a God itself. As for the other part, life already existed on ER's world well before any of the current Outer Gods like the Greater Will, Frenzied Flame, Formless Mother, God of Rot, etc...got involved; we know this because earlier humans and human-related beings were either worshiping the Fell God and Fire Giants or ancient dragons and the ancient dragons themselves were devoted to the unnamed Dragon God.

Prototype or earlier incarnations of the Elden Ring also existed as Farum Azula indicates so the Greater Will did not create the concept of the Elden Ring or life.

The prototype form of the Erdtree also existed as the Crucible way before the concept of Marika and Godfrey starting the Golden Order and their conquest of the Lands Between.


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## SSMG (Dec 27, 2022)

So I decided to go double uchigatana samurai build.

Doing High Dex high vigor and decent endurance.

Anyone ever try this build out?

Am really enjoying it.

Also


Captain Quincy said:


> Bloodhound fang is up there and you can get it at the start of the game


I got this weapon yesterday after grinding the boss fight for like half an hr. 

Got the sword.. Found out my strength is like 5 levels too low to 1 hand it. 


Will keep it as a good backup for when I can wield it tho.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Justiciar (Dec 27, 2022)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> He's being given the warning because his arguments went from legitimate to increasingly absurd to the point of stonewalling, which is against the rules.


How is repeatedly asking for evidence "stone-walling," he made a ton of of claims, and rather than substantiating any of them he's insulting me for pointing out the issues with his arguments.

If someone argued that Aragorn from Lord of the Rings could destroy stars or move at FTL because off some faux scaling to the Ainur. No one would take them seriously.

The series centers around characters with swords and armor. The "big attacks" are things like whirlwinds, room-sized fissures, etc. this is the scale the game operates on. They're not punching each other into space, flying across the solar system or destroying moons and planets in their wake like they would need to do to be comparable to someone like Garou.

If you remove the Outer Gods (of which we know nothing, other than that one of them sealed off the Lands Between made the Elden Ring) then you can compare it to Lord of the Rings without the Maiar/Valar or Berserk without the God Hand. But One Punch Man is far beyond that.


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## Justiciar (Dec 27, 2022)

Masterblack06 said:


> I mean, there are records of actual stars having Tails. Mira A and Mira B being a binary star system moving so fast that their stellar winds create Tails.
> 
> So...you know. Stars can have tails


Here's the full article on what you're talking about.


Mira is *the only star (or technically star system) ever observed* with a tail.

Does this excuse the "stars" having comet-like tails?

Of course not.

Like pointed out, Mira is technically a star system, and it's the gravitational pull of the smaller star that tears off matter from the lager star which it leaves in its trail and that's what we observe as the "tail." So you'd have to conjecture that all the falling stars we see are actually star systems (which makes no sense).

Then there are the visuals, Mira's tail looks nothing like what we see in-game.

This is Mira's tail.



This is the tail of a comet/falling star.



And these are the "stars" Radahn's magic held back.



Notice the difference?

This debunks the argument that the "stars" weren't comets.

But there's more evidence.

Mira is not close enough to Earth to where it can't be observed with the naked eye. And the stars we can observe are without tails. All of the stars Radahn held back had comet-like tails.

Also, the stars would have to be too close to the Earth to move like this.

If that wasn't enough one of the "stars" litterally struck the Mistwood Forest. And this is the damage it caused.



If this was an actual star there wouldn't be a planet level left.

In fact, even if it was moon-sized it would've ended all life on the planet.

Reactions: Old 1 | Dislike 1


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## JayK (Dec 27, 2022)

nobody cares


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## SSMG (Dec 28, 2022)

Justiciar said:


> If that wasn't enough one of the "stars" litterally struck the Mistwood Forest. And this is the damage it caused.


Well damn this seals the deal as them not being real stars. 

That's a what town level feat at best? Proly mcb range tho tbh.


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## Masterblack06 (Dec 29, 2022)

Justiciar said:


> Here's the full article on what you're talking about.
> 
> 
> Mira is *the only star (or technically star system) ever observed* with a tail.
> ...


You know what the stars the radhan is moving does look like though? The effect you get in a shit ton of works of fiction where stars or a person starts moving really fucking fast and they leave behind trails like you would see from comets.


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## trance (Dec 29, 2022)

SSMG said:


> Well damn this seals the deal as them not being real stars.
> 
> That's a what town level feat at best? Proly mcb range tho tbh.


but even if you disregard that, theres still ranni's feat which many people scale to


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 29, 2022)

it doesnt matter either way because the phase transition exists and various statements referring to him stopping constellations, which explicitly are not meteors, the sun being equated to stars in item descriptions etc

nothing had changed

Reactions: Agree 1


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## SoulOfCinder (Dec 29, 2022)

And stars in Elden Ring have tails since Stars of Ruin has tails


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## WorldsStrongest (Dec 31, 2022)

Im simultaneously really glad and really disappointed I was banned and missed this "gem" of a thread 

The OPM fandom really do be completely fucking wildin in literally every crossover huh?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Justiciar (Dec 31, 2022)

Masterblack06 said:


> You know what the stars the radhan is moving does look like though?


Because they're shown in the cinematic after he's killed.

I've posted the screen shot of the scene in the very post you quoted.



trance said:


> but even if you disregard that, theres still ranni's feat which many people scale to


This is going to be something even more stupid, isn't it?



OtherGalaxy said:


> it doesnt matter either way because the phase transition exists and various statements referring to him stopping constellations,


Statements do not refute feats. They could call the comets "universes" and it wouldn't change the fact that they're comets. We see them, and one strikes Mistwood.

And it's not like the game is literal with its vocabulary anyway. Some Glintstone spell descriptions suggests that they summon stars, and Ranni's and Rennala's moon spells do the same for the moon. But they're not literal stars or literal moons.



SoulOfCinder said:


> And stars in Elden Ring have tails since Stars of Ruin has tails


Are you serious?

You this is a star level feat?




WorldsStrongest said:


> The OPM fandom really do be completely fucking wildin in literally every crossover huh?


You have people arguing that spells that are barely able to break barrels are star level.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## SoulOfCinder (Dec 31, 2022)

Justiciar said:


> Are you serious?
> 
> You this is a star level feat?


That's not what I said. I said that stars in general in Elden Ring have tails because a legendary sorcery modeled after stars have tails in the spell


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## ChaosTheory123 (Dec 31, 2022)

Justiciar said:


> You have people arguing that spells that are barely able to break barrels are star level.


You're taking the piss with this one, right?

That's the equivalent of taking note that the "strongest" punch that defeated Garou barely dug a shallow trench in loose gravel and rock and ignoring the fight that occurred before that underwhelming display of collateral. Star level (only requires the celestial bodies in question not all be the same size or equidistant from the Elden Ring planet compared to the lone impactor we observe in game), country/continent level (pretty conservative from the sheer collective of them in the sky taken all as meteor sized objects large enough to be visible from outside the atmosphere via KE), town/city level (just the crater compared to something like Sedan Crater as the vaguest of eye balls), whatever the fuck? You're not downplaying the crater created by 1 stray meteor released from collapsing stars to the limited collateral programmed to occur outside narration and cinematic.

You're clearly posting in bad faith if that's your take away, so this is ultimately just a waste of time.


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## Justiciar (Dec 31, 2022)

SoulOfCinder said:


> That's not what I said. I said that stars in general in Elden Ring have tails because a legendary sorcery modeled after stars have tails in the spell


1..
2. But even if it did, the "stars" in Elden Ring are *by all feats and visuals accounts* falling stars (comets).



ChaosTheory123 said:


> You're taking the piss with this one, right?
> 
> That's the equivalent of taking note that the "strongest" punch that defeated Garou barely dug a shallow trench in loose gravel and rock and ignoring the fight that occurred before that underwhelming display of collateral. Star level (only requires the celestial bodies in question not all be the same size or equidistant from the Elden Ring planet compared to the lone impactor we observe in game), country/continent level (pretty conservative from the sheer collective of them in the sky taken all as meteor sized objects large enough to be visible from outside the atmosphere via KE), town/city level (just the crater compared to something like Sedan Crater as the vaguest of eye balls), whatever the fuck? You're not downplaying the crater created by 1 stray meteor released from collapsing stars to the limited collateral programmed to occur outside narration and cinematic.
> 
> You're clearly posting in bad faith if that's your take away, so this is ultimately just a waste of time.


1. Garou was a reality warper.



2. Garou and Saitama had to be teleported off the Earth because their clash would've destroyed the planet. And that's not looking into the GRB or star blotting feats. Feats directly attributable to Garou.

Now let's look at Elden Ring.

Star level feats: 0
Planet level feats: 0
Continent level feats: 0
Country level feats: 0
City level feats: 0
City-district level feats: 0
Village level feats: 2 - Radahn's star (not combat applicable), Malenia's Scarlet Rot on Caelid (which wasn't an explosion, is arguably not even village level because it expanded, it weakened her to the point where she to retreat, and she doesn't use this attack against the Tarnished).

The mental gymnastics with the overreliance of metaphorical phrasing over actual feats and visuals is laughable.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Dislike 1


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## JayK (Dec 31, 2022)

Never seen someone post so much garbage.

Can a mod lock this.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## SoulOfCinder (Dec 31, 2022)

Justiciar said:


> 1..
> 2. But even if it did, the "stars" in Elden Ring are *by all feats and visuals accounts* falling stars (comets).


It literally does in 2 places of the description 


> _Fires twelve dark shooting stars_





> _he beheld the final moments of a great star cluster,_


He modeled the spell after the final moments of a real star cluster. No comets.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Dec 31, 2022)

Justiciar said:


> 1. Garou was a reality warper.


Which means jack shit in the face of Saitama punching really, really, hard and barely hurting the ground? The cognitive dissonance is charming, but a waste of both your and my own time.


Justiciar said:


> 2. Garou and Saitama had to be teleported off the Earth because their clash would've destroyed the planet.


And the next pair of times Saitama delivered a punch, even harder, in locale of the surface he didn't even create a crater the size of Garou's body.

Now, I'm just being a pedantic asshole, this isn't my actual position, but I'm just emulating your voice here 


Justiciar said:


> And that's not looking into the GRB


That thing is no legit GRB in terms of scale.


Justiciar said:


> or star blotting feats.


Right, the spatial tear the size of Earth that I'm waiting for some thirsty vs asshole to ask Murata about before I make a final judgment on, because it literally doesn't exist the next time we view Earth from Jupiter's moon.


Justiciar said:


> Star level feats: 0


More than possible given leaving one craters hundreds of meters in diameter and deep does not mean that represents the only objects Radahn was keeping at bay. Acting as if 1 impactor means they were all equivalent and equally close to the planet lacks substance in the face of other flavor text related to constellations and the like.


Justiciar said:


> Planet level feats: 0


Apparently shifting the rotation of the planet from night to day in a cinematic between phases


Justiciar said:


> Continent level feats: 0
> Country level feats: 0


KE of dozens/hundreds of those space rocks so large they're visible from well above the atmosphere makes this a very comfortable, conservative estimate on my part.


Justiciar said:


> City level feats: 0
> City-district level feats: 0
> Village level feats: 2 - Radahn's star (not combat applicable), Malenia's Scarlet Rot on Caelid (which wasn't an explosion, is arguably not even village level because it expanded, it weakened her to the point where she to retreat, and she doesn't use this attack against the Tarnished).


Quit being try hard with the random ass descriptors. They exist as short hand so we don't just throw around "kilo/mega/giga/tera/peta/exa/zetta/etc" without comparison context.

The sheer depth and diameter of the crater in question makes it hilariously simple to compare the event of the lone impactor to Sedan, over 100 kilotons. And that's just a lazy eyeball.


Justiciar said:


> The mental gymnastics with the overreliance of metaphorical phrasing over actual feats and visuals is laughable.


I'm not even taking a stance on where they sit, I'm pointing out you're clearly here in bad faith if you're talking about destroying barrels.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Justiciar (Dec 31, 2022)

JayK said:


> Never seen someone post so much garbage.
> 
> Can a mod lock this.


This is how you know I'm winning.



SoulOfCinder said:


> It literally does in 2 places of the description
> 
> He modeled the spell after the final moments of a real star cluster. No comets.


Nowhere does it say he modeled it after stars.



ChaosTheory123 said:


> Which means jack shit in the face of Saitama punching really, really, hard and barely hurting the ground? The cognitive dissonance is charming, but a waste of both your and my own time. And the next pair of times Saitama delivered a punch, even harder, in locale of the surface he didn't even create a crater the size of Garou's body. Now, I'm just being a pedantic asshole, this isn't my actual position, but I'm just emulating your voice here


You mean the time traveling punch? "The reverse causality punch didn't bring about as much collateral damage the other punches." That's the hill you're going to die on?

Either way, you're missing the point. Garou and Saitama fought across the solar system, destroying moons and planets. Nothing anywhere close to that happened in Elden Ring.



ChaosTheory123 said:


> That thing is no legit GRB in terms of scale.


It's interesting that you'd say this and then try to scale the comet that hit Mistwood to star level.



ChaosTheory123 said:


> Right, the spatial tear the size of Earth that I'm waiting for some thirsty vs asshole to ask Murata about before I make a final judgment on, because it literally doesn't exist the next time we view Earth from Jupiter's moon.


I'm specifically not relying on these feats so I'm not sure why you even bother addressing them. Especially when the counterarguments are this bad.



ChaosTheory123 said:


> More than possible given leaving one craters hundreds of meters in diameter


What 100 meters?





ChaosTheory123 said:


> and deep does not mean that represents the only objects Radahn was keeping at bay. Acting as if 1 impactor means they were all equivalent and equally close to the planet lacks substance in the face of other flavor text related to constellations and the like.


They were all comets, we saw it.



Interestingly enough, there's zero evidence for any of them being actual stars.

The same semantic arguments you're peddling here, can be used to argue that some of the spells summon stars.



ChaosTheory123 said:


> Apparently shifting the rotation of the planet from night to day in a cinematic between phases


This is debunked. The Radahn festival canonically occurs over one night. And it's not a cinematic either.



ChaosTheory123 said:


> KE of dozens/hundreds of those space rocks so large they're visible from well above the atmosphere makes this a very comfortable, conservative estimate on my part.


If Radahn could actually use them in combat that would be one thing. But there's zero evidence of that.

Radahn's magic only suspended the moment of the "stars", and it's never implied that he could've weaponized them done anything else with them. The fact that his feats against Malenia and the Tarnished are many orders of magnitude beneath what you implies that he can't.



ChaosTheory123 said:


> Quit being try hard with the random ass descriptors. They exist as short hand so we don't just throw around "kilo/mega/giga/tera/peta/exa/zetta/etc" without comparison context.


Area descriptions are a lot more specific than TNT measurements because you don't have to account for things like time and pressure distribution. They're also a lot more straightforward and less pretentious than "muh exatons of tnt."



ChaosTheory123 said:


> The sheer depth and diameter of the crater in question makes it hilariously simple to compare the event of the lone impactor to Sedan, over 100 kilotons. And that's just a lazy eyeball.
> 
> I'm not even taking a stance on where they sit, I'm pointing out you're clearly here in bad faith if you're talking about destroying barrels.


You're not looking at a combat feat. You're looking at a particular spell with no combat applicability, you then ignore all the fights, and then try to rescale everything to this.

And what's funny is that even if we pretend that these comets can be weaponized and that everything scales to it by these made up "concentration arguments" it still wouldn't be anywhere close to Garou's level.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## SSMG (Dec 31, 2022)

We know the yield of the stars in Er. They can barely make town level craters when impacting with the ground. 

They should be called pseudo stars and this topic is a wrap.


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## SoulOfCinder (Dec 31, 2022)

Justiciar said:


> Nowhere does it say he modeled it after stars.



So, we know Lusat created the spell. The description of the spell mentions that he observed a dying star cluster. But you don't believe that the spell that has the description is modeled after what he saw? Huh?


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 31, 2022)

every single star in the cutscene could legitimately be a meteor and it still wouldn’t matter because Radahn changes day to night in half a second during his phase transition


the Radahn festival does not occur over one night because the second you step into that portal you enter the Wailing Dunes during the day

You can talk to Jerren at day and then the walk to the portal will still start at night. And then when you cross it it’s day again. Your argument that “that isn’t day time that’s just how the scarlet rot looks” isn’t backed up by anything else seen in Caelid, the only area looking remotely like that at night is the Lake of Rot which is both indoors and underground and …. Not in Caelid


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## JayK (Dec 31, 2022)

Village level:



That is apparently what meteors and sub barrel level stars in the eyes of a moron look like. I swear I legit had to look this guy up just to make sure it's not Maru or Fused having renamed.

Keeps stating complete trash with 0 substance to it like *yeah this is not a legit feat, it's just there to look cool* of course without any evidence besides *mUh GaMePlAy MeChAnIcS* and in general has 0 fucking clue about the lore cause anyone who has played the game once knows about the lore revolving around the astrologians, Ranni and the Dark Moon. Especially knowing how much influence the later has over the cosmos.

Yet here we are dealing with illiterate garbage of a shitter knowing so little about ER they don't even know the Radahn festival always starts during the day and doubles down on their autism. In fact they are so braindead and so lost at vs debating they equate gameplay mechanics to lore.

On the other hand Planet level OPM (which is already generous) is apparently not enough. Just fuck off back into your cave together with all of the other yellow teeth'd trashcans from VSB and spergbattles.


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## Justiciar (Dec 31, 2022)

SoulOfCinder said:


> So, we know Lusat created the spell. The description of the spell mentions that he observed a dying star cluster. But you don't believe that the spell that has the description is modeled after what he saw? Huh?


It's not a matter of belief. Nowhere does it say he modeled his spells after stars. This is your personal interpenetration.

And the only reason for this is so that you can justify that the falling stars weren't comets.

The mental gymnastics here are uncanny. I haven't seen something this bad in any fandom.



OtherGalaxy said:


> every single star in the cutscene could legitimately be a meteor and it still wouldn’t matter because Radahn changes day to night in half a second during his phase transition the Radahn festival does not occur over one night because the second you step into that portal you enter the Wailing Dunes during the day


No he doesn't. It's just how the boss area looks in the first phase.

The Radahn festival is very meticulously set up to occur over one night. The idea that going through a portal takes a full day is bullshit and refuted by every other portal in the game.

What's even more funny is that even if there was any truth to what you said (which there isn't) it's still not a combat application feat.



JayK said:


> Village level:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're ignoring feats, and relying on unsubstantiated metaphorical phrasing throughout the game.

And the idea that the Radahn Festival starts at day was debunked already.

Immediately after the Radahn cinematic (which still has the red "daylight" hue) it's night. And it's night when you actually get there. And it's night when the fight ends (this overrides the in-game clock).


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## SSMG (Dec 31, 2022)

OtherGalaxy said:


> every single star in the cutscene could legitimately be a meteor and it still wouldn’t matter because Radahn changes day to night in half a second during his phase transition
> 
> 
> the Radahn festival does not occur over one night because the second you step into that portal you enter the Wailing Dunes during the day
> ...


This just seems like a gameplay mechanic to have the cutscene occur at a set time in game, and then the fight occurs at a set time in game as well.

Happens in other games all the time too.

I don't know tho haven't gotten much time to play ER tbh and am Gunna proly get to that boss today.


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## SoulOfCinder (Dec 31, 2022)

Justiciar said:


> It's not a matter of belief. Nowhere does it say he modeled his spells after stars. This is your personal interpenetration.
> 
> And the only reason for this is so that you can justify that the falling stars weren't comets.
> 
> The mental gymnastics here are uncanny. I haven't seen something this bad in any fandom.


The description of the spell mentions he saw a star cluster. You think that was mentioned on the spell for no reason? What? And I'm the one using mental gymnastics. You're just dead wrong, the stars of the spell were modeled after the stars that he saw. And we're talking about my personal interpretation? When you've been ignoring concrete feats in the game the entire thread? Lmao


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 31, 2022)

Justiciar said:


> It's not a matter of belief. Nowhere does it say he modeled his spells after stars. This is your personal interpenetration.
> 
> And the only reason for this is so that you can justify that the falling stars weren't comets.
> 
> ...


I didn’t say it started during the day, I said you can talk to Jerren at day, it _shifts to night _to begin the fight, and then goes back to day when you enter the Wailing Dunes

Nowhere in Caelid has the red overlay during the day. it disappears at night time. The Wailing Dunes don’t visually look any different from the rest of Caelid’s day cycle

anyone who can tell day from night can see this
Hell, there’s even a video of Caelid’s entire day/night cycle. It does not look like that

“It’s not a combat application feat”
He can use his magic on stars/planets/moons whatever
He can use it on meteors
He can use it on the Tarnished, the exact same spell
This is not hard to understand 


SSMG said:


> This just seems like a gameplay mechanic to have the cutscene occur at a set time in game, and then the fight occurs at a set time in game as well.
> 
> Happens in other games all the time too.
> 
> I don't know tho haven't gotten much time to play ER tbh and am Gunna proly get to that boss today.


daytime caelid
He jumps into space
Night time caelid


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## SSMG (Dec 31, 2022)

OtherGalaxy said:


> daytime caelid
> He jumps into space
> Night time caelid


Hmm that def seems like a phase transition mid fight. 

Could it be a localized spell that blocks the sun?


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## Justiciar (Dec 31, 2022)

SSMG said:


> This just seems like a gameplay mechanic to have the cutscene occur at a set time in game, and then the fight occurs at a set time in game as well.


It's more of a visual presentation of the fight, phase 2 begins and the red mist is cleared and you can see the night sky.

Even if someone wants to peddle this bullshit, it's so bad because there can be so many explanations for why there's more red mist there at the beginning of the battle than in the second phase. For instance: That's the ground zero of the Shattering, therefore that's where the red mist is the densest.

But the fact that these people are ignoring is that *the in-game clock stops during the Radahn Festival* is what gets me. The developers made a conscious decision to let this fight take place over one night.



SoulOfCinder said:


> The description of the spell mentions he saw a star cluster. You think that was mentioned on the spell for no reason? What? And I'm the one using mental gymnastics. You're just dead wrong, the stars of the spell were modeled after the stars that he saw. And we're talking about my personal interpretation? When you've been ignoring concrete feats in the game the entire thread? Lmao


Give me the description where it (verbatim) states that he modeled the spell after a star. It doesn't exist.

"Him gazing at stars" doesn't suggest that he modeled the spell after stars in the slightest.


OtherGalaxy said:


> “It’s not a combat application feat”
> He can use his magic on stars/planets/moons whatever
> He can use it on meteors
> He can use it on the Tarnished, the exact same spell


No, no, no...he can use his magic to suspend the motion of a cluster of (falling) stars. That's all that's been shown. Anything else is conjecture on your part.

And the combat spells he uses against the Tarnished are not impressive at all in comparison.


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 31, 2022)

It’s the same spell, Collapsing Stars is the spell he created when he knew he could fight the stars. He uses it against us constantly

the idea of the area just being scarlet rot mist that’s dispelled makes little sense if Radahn could have just gotten rid of it years ago before he went crazy. which we know wasn’t instant because his great rune is burning, which is a technique applied to stop scarlet rot by red mane knights, meaning he had enough sanity to attempt this before the rot wore away his mind


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## ChaosTheory123 (Dec 31, 2022)

Justiciar said:


> You mean the time traveling punch? "The reverse causality punch didn't bring about as much collateral damage the other punches." That's the hill you're going to die on?


Yes, because the punch he used to shit can the strongest Garou before Saitama learned how to do that failed to make a Garou sized crater too despite Garou specifically noting each punch Saitama was throwing grew stronger

Yet the only notable collateral from Saitama came from him at his weakest point barring the sneeze. He had 3 feats worth shit, the rest were barely wall level the rest of the time.

Time travel involves moving backwards or forward in time, it is not the negation of conservation of energy 


Justiciar said:


> Either way, you're missing the point. Garou and Saitama fought across the solar system, destroying moons and planets. Nothing anywhere close to that happened in Elden Ring.


I'm not missing the point, I'm highlighting for you that those feats mean nothing if we're being hypercritical about lack of collateral barrel boy 


Justiciar said:


> It's interesting that you'd say this and then try to scale the comet that hit Mistwood to star level.


Not really. One is magical bullshit we regularly treat as ignoring conservation of energy because this hobby is bullshit

The other is Murata trying to give us a scientific explanation for what Garou does, emulate real world phenomena, and fail to do little more than what nukes do to emulate the fusion of stars by comparison.


Justiciar said:


> I'm specifically not relying on these feats so I'm not sure why you even bother addressing them. Especially when the counterarguments are this bad.


I'm just commenting on the bullshit you spew when you respond to me, relying on them or not, I'm addressing what you have to say because it takes little effort to do so


Justiciar said:


> What 100 meters?


Pretty clearly that size, not my fault your eyeballing is dogshit 


Justiciar said:


> They were all comets, we saw it.


No, what we saw was celestial bodies being chucked through some metric of space at such a speed they looked like parts of their light or mass was trailing them.


Justiciar said:


> Interestingly enough, there's zero evidence for any of them being actual stars.
> 
> The same semantic arguments you're peddling here, can be used to argue that some of the spells summon stars.
> 
> ...


Can you show me where that was stated? I'm not even taking the piss, I'd love a citation for this.


Justiciar said:


> If Radahn could actually use them in combat that would be one thing. But there's zero evidence of that.


Ah, I see you enjoy the wax of crayons for your breakfast 

He's literally maintaining this as he fights, its clearly a level of power he can output on a constant basis, this is something he can use and direct as he pleases. Take your hypocritical selective usage of conservation of energy elsewhere

Until then, I guess I'll just treat Garou and Saitama as wall level from the last pair of punches from Saitama literally accomplishing no environmental fallout 


Justiciar said:


> Radahn's magic only suspended the moment of the "stars", and it's never implied that he could've weaponized them done anything else with them.


He arrested their forward momentum, where the hell do you think the raw power for it comes from? The mental gymnastics required to reach this "conclusion" make you a god damn Olympian.


Justiciar said:


> The fact that his feats against Malenia and the Tarnished are many orders of magnitude beneath what you implies that he can't.


I'm totally fine with wall level Saitama and Garou because we can now ignore the bigger feats at our leisure 


Justiciar said:


> Area descriptions are a lot more specific than TNT measurements because you don't have to account for things like time and pressure distribution. They're also a lot more straightforward and less pretentious than "muh exatons of tnt."


Not my point. Use the sub vernacular. Kilotons falls into the "town" designation of our arbitrary scale.


Justiciar said:


> You're not looking at a combat feat.


Exerts the power as he is fighting on a constant moment to moment basis, I'm really not sure how you pretend this is true.


Justiciar said:


> And what's funny is that even if we pretend that these comets can be weaponized and that everything scales to it by these made up "concentration arguments" it still wouldn't be anywhere close to Garou's level.


I'm not talking about the match? I'm pretty much just mocking your hypocritical ass for discussing barrels while ignoring the sheer lack of collateral for all but a trio of attacks accomplished by Saitama that fight of note. A pair of which were done at his weakest and the other just a sneeze.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## SoulOfCinder (Dec 31, 2022)

Justiciar said:


> Give me the description where it (verbatim) states that he modeled the spell after a star. It doesn't exist.
> 
> "Him gazing at stars" doesn't suggest that he modeled the spell after stars in the slightest.


Yeah, sure


> _Legendary sorcery devised by Lusat, primeval sorcerers.
> 
> Fires twelve dark shooting stars that pursue the target. This sorcery can be cast while in motion. Charging increases potency.
> 
> When Lusat glimpsed into the primeval current, he beheld the final moments of a great star cluster, and upon seeing it, he too was broken. _


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## JayK (Dec 31, 2022)

Justiciar said:


> -_snip-_


If you are a fucking moron is what I asked you.

Also showing me unrelated garbage of before the festival starts. Are you fucking high?

And this is your sub barrel level Elden Ring:





Must be a hard to cope with the fact about OPM being this hilariously outclassed or you are actually just this retarded in which case you have my condolences.


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## JayK (Dec 31, 2022)

SSMG said:


> Could it be a localized spell that blocks the sun?


Top tier cope.

A character known for having insane gravitational feats uses an unheard of spell not existent instead of the obvious. Even more so when he scales to Ranni's arguably superior feat anyway.

Bonus points for other stars clearly shining through from much further away.

And then you wonder why nobody takes you serious whenever your precious child is involved.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## AnimePhanatic (Dec 31, 2022)

That phase change stuff looked weird to me.
Haven't played Elden Ring but from the video @OtherGalaxy posted, it feels like rather than causing a transition, whoever that guy was sent down the sun  

-Twas in the day
-He jumped up
-A "meteor" appeared from above, and struck down
-Night came

If there's no sun in the sky, it'll obviously be night.

Maybe it's just me speaking from my ignorance of the game, but that phase transition really looks like he just brought down the sun or something, and since there's a lack of sun in the sky, it'd naturally turn dark...

IIRC, he also had the ability to stop and move stars, yes? Which falls in track with what I think happened... I think


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## JayK (Dec 31, 2022)

@OtherGalaxy @Fang @WorldsStrongest Have fun legends.

This is getting too moronic for me, we'll see each other in the 2077 OBD.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Dec 31, 2022)

Justiciar said:


> You have people arguing that spells that are barely able to break barrels are star level.


And you have geniuses like yourself unironically using gameplay as an argument to canonical statements and lore 

Believe me dude youre the fucking problem here


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 31, 2022)

AnimePhanatic said:


> That phase change stuff looked weird to me.
> Haven't played Elden Ring but from the video @OtherGalaxy posted, it feels like rather than causing a transition, whoever that guy was sent down the sun
> 
> -Twas in the day
> ...


Oh the fireball was just Radahn coming back from space


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## AnimePhanatic (Dec 31, 2022)

OtherGalaxy said:


> Oh the fireball was just Radahn coming back from space


Ah, I see
Thanks


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## accountmaker (Dec 31, 2022)

This was beautiful. I read everything. Better than Netflix, 10/10 IGN makes you feel like Spiderman


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## SSMG (Dec 31, 2022)

JayK said:


> Top tier cope.
> 
> A character known for having insane gravitational feats uses an unheard of spell not existent instead of the obvious. Even more so when he scales to Ranni's arguably superior feat anyway.
> 
> ...


 I asked a simple question.

Literally said I have no idea myself...


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## xela tabs (Jan 8, 2023)

So,what can i tell is that.
The winner is...in reality probable garou,because is not for elden ring being multi Solar system level(which is)is because people ignore or downplay alot of stuff for opm.
Like,i understand that elden ring is also downplay,but seriosly,the feat of destroying stars is multi solar system level,and they are not meteors(meteors does not generated light)

Reactions: Optimistic 2


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## DankSinatra (Jan 8, 2023)

So if Elden Ring gets to dabble in its lore and story elements for feats, why do games like God of War not get this treatment? Just curious.


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## WorldsStrongest (Jan 8, 2023)

xela tabs said:


> The winner is...in reality probable garou


oof


xela tabs said:


> seriosly,the feat of destroying stars is multi solar system level


If youre talking about the Serious Punch squared, no it isnt, and thats been addressed and debunked now like a million times.


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## OtherGalaxy (Jan 8, 2023)

DankSinatra said:


> So if Elden Ring gets to dabble in its lore and story elements for feats, why do games like God of War not get this treatment? Just curious.


it does
the issue is as @Edward Nygma has been covering in his GOW threads the realm stuff so far has only referred to country sized areas

maybe GoW’s star stuff could be legit but I haven’t seen anyone here go over it yet

also Radahn’s got actual visual feats in addition to lore so there’s that too


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## DankSinatra (Jan 8, 2023)

OtherGalaxy said:


> it does
> the issue is as @Edward Nygma has been covering in his GOW threads the realm stuff so far has only referred to country sized areas
> 
> maybe GoW’s star stuff could be legit but I haven’t seen anyone here go over it yet
> ...


Well there is visual stuff for GOW as well. Like the primordial war that showed Uranus get decked in the face which caused a nebula to form.


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## Edward Nygma (Jan 8, 2023)

OtherGalaxy said:


> maybe GoW’s star stuff could be legit but I haven’t seen anyone here go over it yet





DankSinatra said:


> Well there is visual stuff for GOW as well. Like the primordial war that showed Uranus get decked in the face which caused a nebula to form.



The only star we see up close (the Sun) isn't a real star, it's maybe the size of a building. I see no reason to assume any of the other lights in the sky are proper stars either.


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## DankSinatra (Jan 8, 2023)

Edward Nygma said:


> The only star we see up close (the Sun) isn't a real star, it's maybe the size of a building. I see no reason to assume any of the other lights in the sky are proper stars either.


Where was this?


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## SSMG (Jan 8, 2023)

Edward Nygma said:


> The only star we see up close (the Sun) isn't a real star, it's maybe the size of a building. I see no reason to assume any of the other lights in the sky are proper stars either.


This isn't Gow exclusive. 

In ER the impact crater one of the stars made when it collided with earth made at best a city level sized crater. 

There's no reason to assume ER stars are irl stars either.  

Which I mean given how we know the ceiling in the underground levels look like stars but are just sparkling rocks/glints in the ceiling. No reason to assume the "top level's" stars/ceiling isn't like that either.

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Edward Nygma (Jan 8, 2023)

DankSinatra said:


> Where was this?


God of War: Chains of Olympus


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## Edward Nygma (Jan 8, 2023)

SSMG said:


> There's no reason to assume ER stars are irl stars either.
> 
> Which I mean given how we know the ceiling in the underground levels look like stars but are just sparkling rocks/glints in the ceiling. No reason to assume the "top level's" stars/ceiling isn't like that either.


I find From Software games repellently boring. I'll leave you all to hash out the ER stuff.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## SSMG (Jan 8, 2023)

Fair.


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## OtherGalaxy (Jan 8, 2023)

SSMG said:


> This isn't Gow exclusive.
> 
> In ER the impact crater one of the stars made when it collided with earth made at best a city level sized crater.
> 
> ...


do I really have to post the video again dawg
it was like 40 seconds long it’s not heavy work

there’s also the sun in elden ring being referred to as another star, and also some aliens like Astel. So unless you want to arbitrarily assume Elden Ring’s sun is a meteor (????) we still know star is used to refer to various kinds of space phenomena in ER, meteors, aliens, and actual stars.


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## DankSinatra (Jan 8, 2023)

Edward Nygma said:


> God of War: Chains of Olympus


What made it building size? From what I remember, the sun dropped out of the sky into the far horizon beyond a mountain range and still dwarfed everything in Kratos eye sight.


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## SSMG (Jan 8, 2023)

OtherGalaxy said:


> do I really have to post the video again dawg
> it was like 40 seconds long it’s not heavy work


That video is showing a day to night cycle occurring, not showing the yield of the stars... 
Which we are shown their yield in the game. 
And it's yield is doo doo compared to real stars. 



OtherGalaxy said:


> there’s also the sun in elden ring being referred to as another star,


The day and night cycle is caused by the elden tree and the light it produces. 


~
But yeah since the day and night cycle is caused by the elden tree light and not a star the plane is orbiting... Than Radahn making it turn to night time isn't really a feat at all.


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## OtherGalaxy (Jan 8, 2023)

SSMG said:


> That video is showing a day to night cycle occurring, not showing the yield of the stars...
> Which we are shown their yield in the game.
> And it's yield is doo doo compared to real stars.
> 
> ...



what the hell are you talking about
the sun is referenced in multiple item descriptions and you can …
see it in the sky
the day/night cycle isn’t tied to the Erdtree, the Erdtree isn’t even _in _Caelid, a minor Erdtree is

the second Radahn leaps into space day becomes night, the Moon that was not visible at all in the Wailing Dunes during the day is instantly visible once he initiates that


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## Edward Nygma (Jan 8, 2023)

DankSinatra said:


> What made it building size? From what I remember, the sun dropped out of the sky into the far horizon beyond a mountain range and still dwarfed everything in Kratos eye sight.


We see it in the underworld. It also isn't that much bigger than the sun chariot.


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## SSMG (Jan 8, 2023)

@OtherGalaxy 
Hmm yeah I had a big long post ready to be typed out. It was tied to me testing out my theory in the game.. Didn't see a sun for like 20 minutes was almost done my testing(went to multiple locations at every time of day, different weather etc)

..... When the sun popped up on my screen as if a big giant "eff you" to me for ever doubting it. 

Yeah there def is a sun and the erdtree doesn't cause the day night cycle, so yeah I was wrong there. 

I'll take this L.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## SoulOfCinder (Jan 8, 2023)

How big is the dimension inside of the Erdtree?


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## JayK (Monday at 1:40 AM)

SSMG said:


> @OtherGalaxy
> Hmm yeah I had a big long post ready to be typed out. It was tied to me testing out my theory in the game.. Didn't see a sun for like 20 minutes was almost done my testing(went to multiple locations at every time of day, different weather etc)
> 
> ..... When the sun popped up on my screen as if a big giant "eff you" to me for ever doubting it.
> ...


It's almost as if most people talking here are complete nolifer degens who'm played through the game anywhere from 3 to 7 times just the year it came out and therefore have a decent idea what they are talking about.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## SSMG (Monday at 2:54 AM)

JayK said:


> It's almost as if most people talking here are complete nolifer degens who'm played through the game anywhere from 3 to 7 times just the year it came out and therefore have a decent idea what they are talking about.


 my b for doubting


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## SSMG (Monday at 2:57 AM)

But legit that was my first time seeing the sun after over 60 hrs of gameplay and so well I thought I was onto something.


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## xela tabs (Monday at 8:21 AM)

How is that feat debunked?how?there is no debunk.
All the debunks are the same,using real life physics or thinking that is other thing and not stars.
Like there is Even proof being anything except stars?no,all is headcanon,assong are not stars is a headcanon and assuming real life physics is also a headcanon.
But i Will give the benefit of the doubt and Say that maybe elden ring can win.


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