# Tsunade Vs Pain



## Trojan (Mar 29, 2013)

Location: Destroyed Konoha 
Distance: 35 meters
Knowledge: Full for Tsunade, None for Pain. 
Mindset: IC
Restrictions: CT, GM. 

Tsunade start with Byakugō & Katsuyu. 
As we Know Tsunade is strong enough to fight 5 of Sasunoo, and I thought Pain is not worst
than that, and I see her winning honestly. What do you think?


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## Bonly (Mar 29, 2013)

The paths should win quite handily. Animal paths Summonings can keep Katsuyu busy while Asura path can attack from afar. Eventually(should be sooner then later) Nagato will figure out that Tsunade can heal herself and then Nagato can finish her off with something like CT, restraining and using Human path, using CST or Gama-trio sized ST to send her flying away.


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## Trojan (Mar 29, 2013)

Bonly said:


> The paths should win quite handily. Animal paths Summonings can keep Katsuyu busy while Asura path can attack from afar. Eventually(should be sooner then later) Nagato will figure out that Tsunade can heal herself and then Nagato *can finish her off with something like CT,* restraining and using Human path, using CST or Gama-trio sized ST to send her flying away.



1- Even Sakura was able to defeat  one of them with 1 punch, so it shouldn't be that hard for
Tsunade. 

2- So, you know that she won't die by their attacks? 
3- All ST that you said are useless, Tsunade already show that she's able to protect herself
and the WHOLE Konoha from that EVEN WITHOUT knowledge, so I don't see why she won't
be able to do so now? 

4- She put some chakra in her legs to work against Deva's ability so that won't work either.

for the bold



> Restrictions: *CT*, GM.



I hope that's big enough. @.@


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## Luftwaffles (Mar 29, 2013)

Bonly said:


> The paths should win quite handily. Animal paths Summonings can keep Katsuyu busy while Asura path can attack from afar. Eventually(should be sooner then later) Nagato will figure out that Tsunade can heal herself and then Nagato can finish her off with something like CT, restraining and using Human path, using CST or Gama-trio sized ST to send her flying away.


Nagato IC would never use CT unless it is deemed necessary. Tsunade is not Kyuubi-level, so Nagato will not use CT like you stated. Not even close. ST is negated by chakra to the feet. That's all I'm gonna say. Not sure who wins, but I'm leaning toward the 6 Paths.


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## ueharakk (Mar 30, 2013)

A>B>C logic doesn't work in naruto and Tsunade wasn't able to "fight them off" it was more like she was able to "survive" against them.

Unlike those susanoos, the paths of pain have techniques that can oneshot her, make her incapable of moving on her own, or drain her regen much faster than the sword stabs.

Pein would win....decisively.


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## Bonly (Mar 30, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> 1- Even Sakura was able to defeat  one of them with 1 punch, so it shouldn't be that hard for
> Tsunade.



Doesn't matter, they will still distract Katsuyu and leave Tsunade open to an attack. 



> 2- So, you know that she won't die by their attacks?



She'll die if her soul gets ripped out of her body.



> 3- All ST that you said are useless, Tsunade already show that she's able to protect herself
> and the WHOLE Konoha from that EVEN WITHOUT knowledge, so I don't see why she won't
> be able to do so now?



Did she hit by a ST sending her flying? No, from the CST all it would do is smash her into the ground likely due to the position of being under directly under Deva path. If she is in front of him then she is getting sent flying away like Kakashi,Choza,Choji,Naruto ect were. 



> 4- She put some chakra in her legs to work against Deva's ability so that won't work either.



Do you have proof that is method will work?



> for the bold
> 
> I hope that's big enough. @.@



Yes it is.



Deus ex Shinobi said:


> Nagato IC would never use CT unless it is deemed necessary. Tsunade is not Kyuubi-level, so Nagato will not use CT like you stated.



IC Nagato would use CT as he see's fit depending on the situation. Unless you have seen all of his fights he has ever been in his entire life to judge if he would only resort to it if the enemy is Kurama level, then this holds no weight if he would or would not use it against Tsunade. Might as well clam Tsunade will only use Byakugo when fighting an edo since thats the only time she has done it.



> Not even close. ST is negated by chakra to the feet. That's all I'm gonna say. Not sure who wins, but I'm leaning toward the 6 Paths.



Do you have proof that said method will work successfully?


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## Trojan (Mar 30, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> A>B>C logic doesn't work in naruto and Tsunade wasn't able to "fight them off" it was more like she was able to "survive" against them.
> 
> Unlike those susanoos, the paths of pain have techniques that can oneshot her, make her incapable of moving on her own, or drain her regen much faster than the sword stabs.
> 
> Pein would win....decisively.



1- O.K, I don't think Pain (any of them) will be able to survive after a hit from Tsunade! 
2- O.K, may you lighten my darkness with these jutsus? And how they'll do it? 


> =Bonly;46762550]Doesn't matter, they will still distract Katsuyu and leave Tsunade open to an attack.



Katsuyu can make like a thousand clone of herself? One Human size will be enough. 


> She'll die if her soul gets ripped out of her body.


 
That takes a lot of time, and how they will catch her? 


> Did she hit by a ST sending her flying? No, from the CST all it would do is smash her into the ground likely due to the position of being under directly under Deva path. If she is in front of him then she is getting sent flying away like Kakashi,Choza,Choji,Naruto ect were.



her summon can protect her (or piece if her summon) and let's say that did happen, O.K
then what? She won't die! 


> Do you have proof that is method will work?


That how it seems to me
took on Kirin


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Mar 30, 2013)

Full knowledge and Byako helps her out so much.  In a blind fight like Jiraiya had, well, we won't talk about that.

Katsuya also keeps them from ganging up on her with division and acid, and she shields from AOE attacks, allowing Tsunade to actually get some work done in these fights, instead of getting bum rushed.  Her ability to divide to be more places at once, and her not-dying is a god-send in this battle.  In particular, she can absorb the defeated paths, in order to keep Naraka from infinitely reviving everyone.  Though Animal needs to die to keep them from just getting summoned out of the slug.

Human:  This guy can end Tsunade's life, and possibly even Katsuya's, with his soul rip.  Without knowledge, he even might do it, and without her summon Tsunade is in a very bad place.  With knowledge, she knows that he needs to die real fast and real carefully, and Katsuya knows to use acid to keep him at bay until she deals with him.

Animal: Tsunade can beat every summon bar Cerebus with one punch.  Cerebus needs to be put down with Raishinsho.  Thankfully, she knows to do this with knowledge.  She's a real summon buster and it pays here.

Asura: She can take Asura's missiles, by her feat of taking Magatama to the face.  So thankfully she can't just get blown up.  Up close, Asura won't be as good as 5 Susano Madara swordsmen, so she can probably take him out.  Asura's biggest trick is coming back from the dead to be a bother, but with her strength, she can end him more completely than his other opponents did.

Preta Path:  If ever there was a good counter to fat Pain, it was Guy.  But if Guy's not around, you may as well have Tsunade.  His taijutsu isn't up to snuff to combat her, and he's probably going to be busy eating acid to save his other path pals.  Probably Naraka.

Naraka: Fairly weak, but well defended.  Like all white mages.  Tsunade needs to get to deal with this one after killing Animal.

Deva: Tsunade knows the chakra cling to guard against his gravity tricks, and has the strength to endure them.  She also knows not to ever tank a black chakra rod, since it will disrupt her chakra.  If she is Bansho Tennin'd, she can just dynamic entry him, or even let Katsuya attack during the opening.  She can also shoot acid at him to put him into cooldown, and attack then.  Ultimately I think she can beat him by merit of his low killing power.

So I do think Tsunade can win with full knowledge, her summon, and Pain's lack of knowledge, combined with her latest feats v.s. Madara.  But none the less it would only be with extreme difficulty, and Human in particular could still make it go south for her.  Take anything away, and I think she could put up a good fight (less good than Jiraiya) but die.  Pain knowledge is probably the most important thing when fighting him, right next to everything else.


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## Bonly (Mar 30, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> Katsuyu can make like a thousand clone of herself? One Human size will be enough.



And? Animal paths summonings will still keep her busy so that she won't be a bother to the paths.




> That takes a lot of time, and how they will catch her?



Not really. Human path easily ripped out Tsunade's aid(forgot the fodder name) after he got what he wanted knowledge wise. It might only take a bit if she like Naruto did but that wouldn't work out nicely for her. I'd assuming holding her would work. 




> her summon can protect her (or piece if her summon) and let's say that did happen, O.K
> then what? She won't die!



If the slug is near her to cover Tsunade which is unlikely then sure but then Tsunade can't do anything while the paths will have an easy shot at her when Katsuyu lets her go. Doesn't matter if she doesn't die, BFR results in a win for the paths.



> That how it seems to me
> took on Kirin



And? Do you have it scans that it actually works or just the idea behind it?


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## Jad (Mar 30, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Asura: She can take Asura's missiles, by her feat of taking Magatama to the face.  So thankfully she can't just get blown up.  Up close, Asura won't be as good as 5 Susano Madara swordsmen, so she can probably take him out.  Asura's biggest trick is coming back from the dead to be a bother, but with her strength, she can end him more completely than his other opponents did.



No offense, but this is a joke. Those small Magatama, the size of Madara's hand, with no other feats of doing anything other than throwing Tsunade away is now so overrated. You are taking the large Magatama that Madara used against the Kages and equating every ounce, power and destructive feat it had to that of the mini-version. You need to stop it, it's a blunt sided attack with no spin to it, that hit Tsunade and she went flying into a boulder that Genins get planted in most of the time.

Asura pain is the one that screwed up Sage mode Jiraiya, you know the dude who got his arm ripped off. You are going to sit there and tell me Tsunade is now more durable than Sage mode? I think you need to reevaluate that part of your post.

Asura path alone could take out Katsyu and Tsunade with one of these attacks [1].

At any rate, your entire post is like Tsunade is fighting each Pain individually. That isn't how it works. Jiraiya 3 against 1 thought it was too much to handle in Sage mode. Pain would Shinra Tensei her and have all the other pains Jump her while she is occupied. Katasyu is going to be screwed from Cerebus alone and Asura path wiping her out.

Sage mode Naruto had to resort to trickery and clones to take on the Pains by breaking them up, and STILL lost had it not been for Kyuubi transformation and Deva pain suffering from _Villian explaining entire story-disease_


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## Soul (Mar 30, 2013)

Why are you people trying to make this a fight when nothing suggest this?
Pain wins with virtually no difficulty, either by overkill, overwhelming the opposition or with a battle of attrition.

Deva alone can handle anything Tsunade has.
Katsuyu? Shinra Tensei was able to send 3 bis summons flying + rendered them useless.
Tsuande herself? Bansho Tenin + Rod, just as he did with Naruto (Naruto already had knowledge of the move, as he saw Pa get fucked over by it).

Add shared vision and the abilities of the other 5 paths, and this one isn't even fun to see.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Mar 30, 2013)

1. Jiraiya was surprise hit because he thought they were all dead.  If he had his guard up, I don't think that would have happened.  I don't give Chouji or Choza the feat of palm smashing Asura, or saying they're better than him because he was paralyzed by Kakashi's RKB when he got attacked.  It's similar for Jiraiya. 

2. Missiles are a blunt force attack.  They're not spinning slicing explosions. That's why I felt it was a good comparison.  It shows that even is Tsunade got hit with a blasting attack, she wouldn't be put down by it.

3.  I wrote it more as individual battles, because of this part.



> Katsuya also keeps them from ganging up on her with division and acid, and she shields from AOE attacks, allowing Tsunade to actually get some work done in these fights, instead of getting bum rushed. Her ability to divide to be more places at once, and her not-dying is a god-send in this battle.



Dividing into 6+ fairly good sized summons to play blocker and tank AOE hits, and divide the Pain's attention is the only reason I don't think she get ganked and soul ripped in the most unfair beat down ever.  

Otherwise it's exactly as Soul said.  Not even fun to imagine.  Even then, without knowledge on who to target and which one to watch out for, Katsuya could just get soul ripped, and it would turn into exactly that same beat down.  That still doesn't mean it can't, it just means I actually think it's possible for her to win.  Pain also has a very conservative nature when fighting, typically sending up only a Pain or at most two to engage at once, which also helps a lot.  So if Pain also had full knowledge, he'd know what to do to win from the start and probably do it.  And I say this in spite of my low opinion on his intelligence.

General Note:

I should also add that Pain bodies ability to lay the hurt down increases exponentially with them looking at the same target.  Human goes from catching SM Jiraiya's punch when all the paths are looking at him, to getting corner blitzed by Konohamaru when he's on his own.  This makes no logical sense because sharded vision shouldn't work that way, but it's one I begrudgingly accept only because Kishi wrote it that way, and number of Rinnegans is the only difference between those and other inconsistent scenarios.  So Katsuya just obscuring that vision and making them look in different directions is partly why I give her edge in taijutsu skirmishes against people like Asura.  Whereas if they weren't, I don't think I would.  

Feel free to throw that out, and make you own assessments that don't include that.  I won't tell you you're wrong, or stupid for ignoring it, because it's dumb in the first place, but there you have it.


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## Trojan (Mar 30, 2013)

> =Bonly;46762781]And? Animal paths summonings will still keep her busy so that she won't be a bother to the paths.


 how that can be? All what s/he can summon are 8 summons 
So, yes 8 or so, from Katsuyu clones, will be busy, but that has no effect. Also, 
Has s/he ever used all the summons at ones? I don't think so! 

Against Jman he was using one after the other (in this case Tsunade will beat the crab out of them)

against Naruto, she used 1 then 2 then another 1 

and I said it's "IC" so he will NOT use all of them at once, nor he will fight all together! 


> Not really. Human path easily ripped out Tsunade's aid(forgot the fodder name) after he got what he wanted knowledge wise. It might only take a bit if she like Naruto did but that wouldn't work out nicely for her. I'd assuming holding her would work.



O.K even if I agreed with that. The problem is still how he will do it? 
against Shuzine she was careless and she was talking to the others, but here
Tsunade is fighting not talking! 


> If the slug is near her to cover Tsunade which is unlikely then sure but then Tsunade can't do anything while the paths will have an easy shot at her when Katsuyu lets her go. Doesn't matter if she doesn't die, BFR results in a win for the paths.



Tsunade doesn't need her to recover (except if her body cut in half) 
I don't know what "BFR" stand for. @.@ Sorry 


> And? Do you have it scans that it actually works or just the idea behind it?



Will the truth behind something it what it said about it, unless it had proven wrong. 
So, Deva said that they knew how his ability works and for that the did it, so obviously it works
like this. Do you have any proof that it won't work? I don't think so, thus, we have to believe it will
works because that how it meant to be! Simple.


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## Jad (Mar 30, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> 1. Jiraiya was surprise hit because he thought they were all dead.  If he had his guard up, I don't think that would have happened.  I don't give Chouji or Choza the feat of palm smashing Asura, or saying they're better than him because he was paralyzed by Kakashi's RKB when he got attacked.  It's similar for Jiraiya.
> 
> 2. Missiles are a blunt force attack.  They're not spinning slicing explosions. That's why I felt it was a good comparison.  It shows that even is Tsunade got hit with a blasting attack, she wouldn't be put down by it.



You said Tsunade can tank Asura pains attacks. I said Jiraiya in Sage Mode couldn't tank them. What does putting up a guard have anything to do with it? Of course, if Jiraiya put up a Odama Rasengan to counter Asura paths attack, PERHAPS we can talk. But what guard? If Jiraiya was to put up his arms infront of him to block Asura paths attack.....wait his arm was already blown off in cannon, so obviously that wouldn't work.



I don't understand your Chouji or Choza example...

Those Missiles, Asura paths attacks, was able to blow off Jiraiya's Sage Mode arm. Explosions have the ability to blow limbs off you know in real life and manga lore.



Soul said:


> Katsuyu? Shinra Tensei was able to send 3 bis summons flying + rendered them useless.



Katsuya is virtually out of the match at get-go. I didn't even bother to think this.


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## Thunder (Mar 30, 2013)

Tsunade isn't winning this. A fighter who relies solely on close-quarters combat isn't suited to battle an opponent like Pein Rikudō, it's that simple. Tsunade's healing factor is a problem, but that can be completely bypassed through Ningendō's   or disrupted with black rods.

Katsuyu is virtually useless in her regular form, as Pein was effortlessly dodging faster summons.  gets absorbed by Gakidō, or dodged. If Katsuyu divides, an omnidirectional Shinra Tensei will just push them aside.

This is by all accounts, a mismatch. And I haven't even mentioned the other paths.


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## ueharakk (Mar 30, 2013)

Jad said:


> You said Tsunade can tank Asura pains attacks. I said Jiraiya in Sage Mode couldn't tank them. What does putting up a guard have anything to do with it? Of course, if Jiraiya put up a Odama Rasengan to counter Asura paths attack, PERHAPS we can talk. But what guard? If Jiraiya was to put up his arms infront of him to block Asura paths attack.....wait his arm was already blown off in cannon, so obviously that wouldn't work.
> 
> I don't understand your Chouji or Choza example...
> 
> Those Missiles, Asura paths attacks, was able to blow off Jiraiya's Sage Mode arm. Explosions have the ability to blow limbs off you know in real life and manga lore.


your entire stance about the missiles is based on the assumption that it was a missile that tore jiraiya's arm off.  Yet we didn't see what actually happened or how Asura path went about doing that.

Meanwhile Azura path has shown both slicing and drilling weaponry that would better explain jiraiya's arm being torn off.

BTW, the Mini Yasaka magatama tsunade took sent her into the rock with more force than Chouji's butterfly punch sent Asuma into the cliff (and that punch 'killed' him).  

If we take into account how weak raw explosions in this manga actually are in regards to dismembering non-fodders (Hebi Sasuke blocking C2 with a wing, Sakura not bleeding from letting a paper bomb go off in her hand), Asura's missiles are not blowing off any of tsunade's limbs any time soon.


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## Jad (Mar 30, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Dividing into 6+ fairly good sized summons to play blocker and tank AOE hits, and divide the Pain's attention is the only reason I don't think she get ganked and soul ripped in the most unfair beat down ever.
> 
> Otherwise it's exactly as Soul said.  Not even fun to imagine.  Even then, without knowledge on who to target and which one to watch out for, Katsuya could just get soul ripped, and it would turn into exactly that same beat down.  That still doesn't mean it can't, it just means I actually think it's possible for her to win.  Pain also has a very conservative nature when fighting, typically sending up only a Pain or at most two to engage at once, which also helps a lot.  So if Pain also had full knowledge, he'd know what to do to win from the start and probably do it.  And I say this in spite of my low opinion on his intelligence.



It's already been said, but I will say it again, whatever minimal help Katasyu had in this fight is done in by Deva just Gravity pushing her out of the match much like he did to the Frog Summons.


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## Bonly (Mar 30, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> Who that can be? All what s/he can summon are 8 summons
> So, yes 8 or so, from Katsuyu clones, will be busy, but that has no effect. Also,
> Has s/he ever used all the summons at ones? I don't think so!
> 
> ...



The Cerebus could. Did anyone say that Animal path will summon all of them at once?



> O.K even if I agreed with that. *The problem is still how he will do it?*
> against Shuzine she were careless and she was talking to the others, but her
> Tsunade is fighting not talking!



I'd assume after Human path touched her the process will begin. 



> Tsunade doesn't need her to recover (except if her body cut in half)
> I don't know what "BFR" stand for. @.@ Sorry



Never said Tsunade would need to recover via Katsuyu. I said Katsuyu would cover her just like Katsuyu did to save alot of citizens after Deva path used CST. BFR stands for Battle Field Removal. That means if you leave the battle field then you'll lose in the BD. 



> Will the truth behind something it what it said about it, unless it had proven wrong.
> So, Deva said that they knew how his ability works and for that the did it, so obviously it works
> like this. Do you have any proof that it won't work? I don't think so, thus, we have to believe it will
> works because that how it meant to be! Simple.



I can't understand the first sentence. So you have no proof that it would work besides him stating that they know how it works thus assuming it will? Well I guess that mean if someone knows how to break out of a genjutsu then it'll work 100 times out of 100, oh wait lets look at Naruto who knew how to break out of genjutsu but couldn't break out of Itachi's at the start of time skip. Just because Deva said they knew how it works, it doesn't mean said tactic will have worked.


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## Trojan (Mar 30, 2013)

Jad said:


> It's already been said, but I will say it again, whatever minimal help Katasyu had in this fight is done in by Deva just Gravity pushing her out of the match much like he did to the Frog Summons.



I see nothing like what happened to the frogs happen to her
Sakura not bleeding from letting a paper bomb go off in her hand
Sakura not bleeding from letting a paper bomb go off in her hand

If you can see it, let us see with you


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## Jad (Mar 30, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> your entire stance about the missiles is based on the assumption that it was a missile that tore jiraiya's arm off.  Yet we didn't see what actually happened or how Asura path went about doing that.
> 
> Meanwhile Azura path has shown both slicing and drilling weaponry that would better explain jiraiya's arm being torn off.
> 
> BTW, the Mini Yasaka magatama tsunade took sent her into the rock with more force than Chouji's butterfly punch sent Asuma into the cliff (and that punch 'killed' him).  Asura's missiles are not blowing off any of tsunade's limbs any time soon.



Ma and Pa had no idea what happened after they saw Jiraiya standing on the water, surprised to see his arm torn off [1]. So obviously when Jiraiya got surprised and attacked, it happened straight after he looked behind to see Asura path. And you can see Jiraiya coming off the side of the wall from a blast effect [2].


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## Jad (Mar 30, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> I see nothing like what happened to the frogs happen to her
> 2
> 2
> 
> If you can see it, let us see with you



Yeah, they were completely pushed to the outskirts of the village. That is enough time for the other Pains to jumps lonely Tsunade.


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## ueharakk (Mar 30, 2013)

Jad said:


> Ma and Pa had no idea what happened after they saw Jiraiya standing on the water, surprised to see his arm torn off [1]. So obviously when Jiraiya got surprised and attacked, it happened straight after he looked behind to see Asura path. And you can see Jiraiya coming off the side of the wall from a blast effect [2].



how does that imply that it was just a missile?  It could have been a laser/missile + slicing attacks on his arm, rocket punch etc.

If it was truly just a missile then why weren't Ma or Asura realm or jiraiya's clothes even damaged by the attack considering they were basically right next to jiraiya's arm?

And the other consistency of explosions in the manga not doing lots of physical damage to non-fodders still stands.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Mar 30, 2013)

Jad said:


> It's already been said, but I will say it again, whatever minimal help Katasyu had in this fight is done in by Deva just Gravity pushing her out of the match much like he did to the Frog Summons.



The frog summons left the building because they all grouped into one ST'able area, and then they couldn't come back because they had every bone in their body broken.  They also ran around the field doing things for most of the fight, only getting ejected when it was down to Deva and Preta.

Katsuya tanked CST in mini-form.  She's squishy and boneless.  She's also in lots of different pieces.  It's at minimum 5 seconds between each and every shove.  

So Deva would have to run up and leap past Tsunade to speed blitz Katsuya out of the field before she splits, and then Tsunade would have to never never re-summon her for me to believe that.


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## Trojan (Mar 30, 2013)

> =Bonly;46763072]The Cerebus could. Did anyone say that Animal path will summon all of them at once?



- Yes, it could. 
- No. 


> I'd assume after Human path touched her the process will begin.


She can still attack him, as when Naruto attacked Nagato. 



> Never said Tsunade would need to recover via Katsuyu. I said Katsuyu would cover her just like Katsuyu did to save alot of citizens after Deva path used CST. BFR stands for Battle Field Removal. That means if you leave the battle field then you'll lose in the BD.



- Mmm O.K. 
- That, If. + Thanks for the info. 

I can't understand the first sentence. So you have no proof that it would work besides him stating that they know how it works thus assuming it will? Well I guess that mean if someone knows how to break out of a genjutsu then it'll work 100 times out of 100, oh wait lets look at Naruto who knew how to break out of genjutsu but couldn't break out of Itachi's at the start of time skip. Just because Deva said they knew how it works, it doesn't mean said tactic will have worked.[/QUOTE]

-What I meant, is the manga represent it that way, and we'll act like that. 
- O don't need any proof in this case + Yes, we have to assume this way
because there is nothing against that.  

- Your example, has nothing to do here, because we said several examples in the manga. 
However, we did not see anything against what Dava said. 

Anyway, going back and forth in this is pointless, because we have nothing other than
 what Deva said! So, this will not end. @.@


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## Jad (Mar 30, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> how does that imply that it was just a missile?  It could have been a laser/missile + slicing attacks on his arm, rocket punch etc.
> 
> If it was truly just a missile then why weren't Ma or Asura realm or jiraiya's clothes even damaged by the attack considering they were basically right next to jiraiya's arm?
> 
> And the other consistency of explosions in the manga not doing lots of physical damage to non-fodders still stands.



You know what, I'm not going to go into it any further. All we know is Asura Path ripped off Jiraiya's entire arm off. He did it before Jiraiya could turn around and counter in Sage Mode. So if he was able to do that in such a short amount of time, than Tsunade is not "tanking" his attacks if he so happens to land them.


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## Jad (Mar 30, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> The frog summons left the building because they all grouped into one ST'able area, and then they couldn't come back because they had every bone in their body broken.  They also ran around the field doing things for most of the fight, only getting ejected when it was down to Deva and Preta.
> 
> Katsuya tanked CST in mini-form.  She's squishy and boneless.  She's also in lots of different pieces.  It's at minimum 5 seconds between each and every shove.
> 
> So Deva would have to run up and leap past Tsunade to speed blitz Katsuya out of the field before she splits, and then Tsunade would have to never never re-summon her for me to believe that.



Katsyuya starts out on the field. So I don't see why Deva can't just Shinra Tensei her out of the place? She can't divide and spread faster than Deva can Gravity Push her out. I never said she is going to die, but it's enough of an opening to crap all over Tsunade, 5 on 1.


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## Trojan (Mar 30, 2013)

Jad said:


> Yeah, they were completely pushed to the outskirts of the village. That is enough time for the other Pains to jumps lonely Tsunade.



?????
I'm talking about Tsunade's summon! 
Where did you see 


> hey were completely pushed to the outskirts of the village



about Tsunade's summon? (her name is hard to write Lol) 
because I see all of its pieces are still in the village.


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## ueharakk (Mar 30, 2013)

Jad said:


> You know what, I'm not going to go into it any further. All we know is Asura Path ripped off Jiraiya's entire arm off. He did it before Jiraiya could turn around and counter in Sage Mode. So if he was able to do that in such a short amount of time, than Tsunade is not "tanking" his attacks if he so happens to land them.



If it's his razor tail, then I agree.  If it's drill arm, then I agree.  If it's his laser, then I agree.  If it's just missiles, then I don't agree since guys like Hebi Sasuke can block a small mini nuke with a limb from a vastly inferior replica of SM.

I can agree with this as long as it's not simply missiles as I think the manga has made it pretty clear that simple explosive attacks don't do much to non-fodders unless they are very big.


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## Jad (Mar 30, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> ?????
> I'm talking about Tsunade's summon!
> Where did you see
> 
> ...



You said Katsuyu starts out with Tsunade on the battlefield? So Pain will just Shinra Tensei her out of the field? She can't divide and spread faster than Pain can push her and all of her divisions (grouped up) out of the fight.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Mar 30, 2013)

Jad said:


> You said Katsuyu starts out with Tsunade on the battlefield? So Pain will just Shinra Tensei her out of the field? She can't divide and spread faster than Pain can push her and all of her divisions (grouped up) out of the fight.



Distance: 35 meters


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## Jad (Mar 30, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Distance: 35 meters



And you don't think his Shinra Tensei can reach that far? Deva pain is pretty fast as well, I see NO problem in him maneuvering away from Tsunade, closing 35 meteres, and ST'ing her summon out.

You're still in that mentality were you believe the Pains are going to go one on one with Tsunade like one of Jackie Chans films were he fights 500 people.


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## Bonly (Mar 30, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> - Yes, it could.
> - No.



Glad we agree.




> She can still attack him, as when Naruto attacked Nagato.



If she got caught like Naruto did whyen he was getting his soul ripped then im not sure Tsunade could successfully attack since the other paths could jump in the way and take the blow of she could get a body part ripped off like Jiraiya did. 





> - Mmm O.K.
> - That, If. + Thanks for the info.



No prob 





> -What I meant, is the manga represent it that way, and we'll act like that.
> - O don't need any proof in this case + Yes, we have to assume this way
> because there is nothing against that.
> 
> ...




My example works perfectly here. Naruto is taught a method that is used to break out of genjutsu. We later see that said method didn't work, thus this means that said method won't work all the time. He had a method which might or might not work and we fond that it won't. 

What Tsunade did is the same thing more or less. She had a method which might or might not work but it didn't get tested. Thus just because she has a method doesn't mean it would work, and seeing as all we see is the place around Tsunade is destroyed, we can't tell if she did get moved from her original position or not.

If you still don't get and only think that because she thought up a method and Deva said they knew his powers and assume it will be successfully then your right and we should stop here.


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## Trojan (Mar 30, 2013)

Jad said:


> You said Katsuyu starts out with Tsunade on the battlefield? So Pain will just Shinra Tensei her out of the field? She can't divide and spread faster than Pain can push her and all of her divisions (grouped up) out of the fight.



oh 
but we have two problems here

1- Pain has no knowledge, so he doesn't no its ability. 
2- It's "IC" so, Deva is not in the front
Tsunade 

So, yes this unlikely to happen from the start. @.@


*
Bonly*

I'll replay later, time for some rest.


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## Jad (Mar 30, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> oh
> but we have to problems here
> 
> 1- Pain has no knowledge, so he doesn't no its ability.
> ...



Deva couldn't use his Shinra Tensei ability at that point, so makes sense to protect him. And what? He can't see Katsuya dividing infront of his eyes?


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Mar 30, 2013)

Jad said:


> And you don't think his Shinra Tensei can reach that far? Deva pain is pretty fast as well, I see NO problem in him maneuvering away from Tsunade, closing 35 meteres, and ST'ing her summon out.
> 
> You're still in that mentality were you believe the Pains are going to go one on one with Tsunade like one of Jackie Chans films were he fights 500 people.



No?  I don't?  

ST does not have that kind of range unless he shuts down the other paths for a CST.  If he uses that, then he needs to shut down the other paths.  And both Tsunade and Katsuya tank that.  

Unless you provide me a scan of him performing his normal ST from a range greater than his normal sphere.  Pain is not that intelligent with his jutsu, but I find it hard to believe that he could have flung all of the boss toads out of the fight as soon as his powers came back, but instead chose to dance around them all for no reason at all.

I'm not under the mentality that Pain is going to choose to fight only one on one forever, I'm under the mentality that Tsunade can make it more that kind of fight with Katsuya.


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## Jad (Mar 30, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Unless you provide me a scan of him performing his normal ST from a range



Interesting. Ok. Mind proving Mini-Katsuya's can use Acid spit?


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## LostSelf (Mar 30, 2013)

We should note the big difference between fighting 5 Susano'os and being defeated by 5 Susano'os and i guess it's more than clear that Pain is on another level from her.

Nagato will protect his Naraka path it doesn't matter if he doesn't have knowledge and will probably end sending Asura at first. In the Skirmish Tsunade cruishes Asura with one hit and Pain gets knowledge there.

After that, he beats her. Preta path can do the same he did to SM Naruto with a combined assault. And considering it drained a guy with more chakra than her fast, i see the path managing to do it, or at least, long enough for a soul rip. She can't outlast Nagato either and i doubt she can kill Deva, someone who dodged something with arguably the same speed as a cloacked Lee while at the same he stabbed two clones or fighting handily in CqC against a faster oponent than her with Sharingan precog with his attention divided, he would have no problems at all reacting and dodging her attacks.

Pushing her away if he's put in a desfavorable position, something hard to say if faster oponents couldn't. Eventually Nagato finds out about Byakugo, or gangs her up with his paths (Even sage Jiraiya had to run from only three), outlast her byakugo, etc.

Pain wins this 10/10-


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## Sans (Mar 30, 2013)

Tsunade gets decapitated by Shinra Tensei.


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## rubberguy (Mar 30, 2013)

How did this reach two pages?


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## raizen28 (Mar 30, 2013)

Pain stomps. His 6 bodies have linked vision
"one see,all see"+Reactions+Speed+7 summons..
Pain really Stomps though


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## Mercurial (Mar 30, 2013)

is this a joke? why OP is hating Tsunade so much? Pain is tiers above her,even with restrictions for the Six Paths and advantages for the Godaime


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## Ghost (Mar 30, 2013)

Pain mid diff.


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## Joakim3 (Mar 30, 2013)

What is this thread.....

I thought Nagato's _Pein Rikudo_ have been accepted at being capable of wtftrollfoddering Tsunade, guess I was wrong 

Hell we could make this a Tsunade vs. a wheel chair restricted Nagato..... and she would still lose more times than not


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## TraderJoe (Mar 30, 2013)

Tsuande is really strong, but I think Pain would slightly edge her out.


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## FlamingRain (Mar 30, 2013)

With these conditions I actually think the Fifth Hokage would do a lot bettter here than one would initially think after seeing the thread title.
Shared vision would normally cause difficulties for a taijutsu oriented fighter but with Katsuyu already on the field she can have her divide and make it harder for them to evade Tsunade by taking up the majority of the space on the battlefield and splitting up the Paths. With no knowledge, the Path Tsunade initially tries to go after has no reason to believe it can't block her strikes and gets demolished as a result; this is most likely going to be Naraka Path. After that, Human Path is the only path boasting a technique Tsunade and Katsuyu wouldn't be able to recover from. If Katsuyu is effective enough in preventing blindsiding by keeping the other Paths pre-occupied with acid and body slams to allow Tsunade to take out Human as well, Tsunade should be able to take out Preta Path without too much of an issue and eventually work her way through the summoning and projectile attacks of Animal and Asura before taking on Deva, whose Shinra Tensei and Bansho Tenin I do believe Tsunade could withstand with her chakra to the feet strategy and Katsuyu cushioning.
I believe the Hokage can scrape by with an extreme difficulty win with full knowledge on her side and complete lack thereof on Pain's end. Pain can still win as well, however.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Mar 30, 2013)

Pain wins. Bear in mind, speed wise, shared vision left Pain able to overwhelm Sages and even perfect Jinchuriki (via Nagato) with reaction speed alone. I cite this because I'm saying they'll do the same with Tsunade i.e. they will adapt to her speed. 

Tsunade loses as she has too much to watch out for. BT with any Pain, she has to ensure the Hell Realm doesn't strangle her, ensure the Human Realm doesn't touch her and ensure the Preta Realm doesn't absorb all her chakra.


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## u think u know me (Mar 30, 2013)

Without a doubt, pain will wins


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## Hero (Mar 31, 2013)

My question is why do people insist on calling Katsuyu "Katsuya"

Where the fuck do you all get that from?


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## Jad (Mar 31, 2013)

Hero said:


> My question is why do people insist on calling Katsuyu "Katsuya"
> 
> Where the fuck do you all get that from?



I don't think you are ready for the truth.


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## joshhookway (Mar 31, 2013)

Robot pein solos.


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## PopoTime (Mar 31, 2013)

I believe this is relevant here

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdH8_MIIEpQ[/YOUTUBE]

Someone tells Tsunade that Pain has stolen her Sake, this happens


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