# Luke Skywalker vs. The Powerpuff Girls



## Bioness (Feb 7, 2012)

VERSUS



Location: 
Starting Distance: 200 kilometers
Restrictions: Mental Manipulations and Time Manipulations banned
Mindset: In Character with Intent to Kill

Scenario 1: Luke only fights one of the girls
Scenario 2: Luke fights all three at the same time


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## Gone (Feb 7, 2012)

Uncle Phantom said:


> Bioness, you already know Warsies are going to say Luke mindrapes them. why even make this match?



Mind rape is banned, read the OP


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## Ultra Instinct Vegito (Feb 7, 2012)

Anyone who knows about Star Wars...what can Luke do without mind rape?


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## Ceria (Feb 7, 2012)

Kami Tenchi said:


> Anyone who knows about Star Wars...what can Luke do without mind rape?



Force choke, lightning, force whirl, lightsaber throw, so many powers, mind rape is only a small part of his powers.


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## Huey Freeman (Feb 7, 2012)

they have a massive reality warper "HIM" as a villain who they routinely kick his teeth in.


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## Gone (Feb 7, 2012)

Did they ever beat Him without PIS? For the life of me I cannot remember PPG feats...


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## Toriko (Feb 7, 2012)

Doesn't make them massive reality warpers.


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## Bit Sean (Feb 7, 2012)

Been years since I watched PPG, but I don't remember them every really beating a Him that was going all out.


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## Samavarti (Feb 7, 2012)

Huey Freeman said:


> they have a massive reality warper "HIM" as a villain who they routinely kick his teeth in.



Most of the time they ruin his plans without having to confront him directly, rest of the times is PIS.


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## Matta Clatta (Feb 7, 2012)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7t8hZJpqIU[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLzpRPiMf6k&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

but if specifically looking for feats against "HIM" I can go post those eps too


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## Fang (Feb 7, 2012)

Nah the main problem for the Powerpuff Girls is the fact their powers and showings are horribly inconsistent. Like how one episode they easily fly into space and smash a huge asteroid then the next episode they have trouble catching normal humans or speeding after cars with baddies in it.

Its a gag series more or less.

Funny part is that Luke can mind-fuck people with telekinesis too.


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## Gone (Feb 7, 2012)

^ Except we dont use low end showings. Thor goes from getting KOed by Captain America to driving off Galactus. Every fiction has inconsistant showings.

So Bubbles circled the planet in 5 seconds, anybody have a calc on that? Lukes precog might pose a problem but there are three of them, so IMO they stomp this with utter ease.


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## Bender (Feb 7, 2012)

This is gonna be an embarrassing defeat for Luke. If anyone remembers the episode Time Demon then you would know that the girls are FTL. 

PPG rape the shit out of Luke.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Feb 7, 2012)

they have speed enough to time-travel, that would be FTL ?

their DC and durability are just ~city+ though


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## Bender (Feb 7, 2012)

Fang said:


> Nah the main problem for the Powerpuff Girls is the fact their powers and showings are horribly inconsistent.



PIS. Ever hear of it? 



> Like how one episode they easily fly into space and smash a huge asteroid then the next episode they have trouble catching normal humans or speeding after cars with baddies in it.



It's called PIS. It's done for the same reason that Batman was such a badass before the DCNU. 




> Funny part is that Luke can mind-fuck people with telekinesis too.



It's because it's a crutch power. What he can't use his lightsaber to kick ass?


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## Fang (Feb 7, 2012)

Nah, again their speed and strength are horribly inconsistent. It literally varies from episode to episode based off the "plot".

Its the same argument PPG "fans" used in that one match against PC Supes.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Feb 7, 2012)

Flash and Supes speed varies all the time, especially in DCAU

take any random JL episode, you'd never *ever* believe that either one is at least massively hypersonic+



inconsistent as fuck, but whatcha gonna do


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## Bender (Feb 7, 2012)

Fluttershy said:


> they have speed enough to time-travel, that would be FTL ?



Uhh yeah. What do you call it? 



> their DC and durability are just ~city+ though



Pretty much yeah. I don't recall Luke's power ever exceeding that. The girls have also used their power to blow up an asteroid with their heat vision.


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## Gone (Feb 7, 2012)

Fang said:


> Nah, again their speed and strength are horribly inconsistent. It literally varies from episode to episode based off the "plot".
> 
> Its the same argument PPG "fans" used in that one match against PC Supes.



Again every fiction has these.



Maybe we shouldnt use The Flash's high end showings anymore either?


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## Ultra Instinct Vegito (Feb 7, 2012)

What's the strongest character Luke can  beat then? He seems pretty awesome.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Feb 7, 2012)

Ryjacork said:


> Again every fiction has these.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe we shouldnt use The Flash's high end showings anymore either?


that one is fuckin mind-boggling


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## Fang (Feb 7, 2012)

I'll just wait till Narcissus posts, he's fairly knowledgeable on the Powerpuff Girls.


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## Bender (Feb 7, 2012)

Fang said:


> Nah, again their speed and strength are horribly inconsistent. It literally varies from episode to episode based off the "plot".




 

That's called PIS



> Its the same argument PPG "fans" used in that one match against PC Supes.



Hmm, guess what though? Those fans aren't here and the fact is that their speed is FTL tops.


Here's a list of the girls powers:

    Vast Superhuman Strength
    Superhuman Speed
    Flight
    Heat Vision
    Near invulnerability (examples:survived being dunked in acid, endure beatings, lasers, fire, bullets, etc)
    Ability to breathe and survive in space (sometimes wear space suits)
    Energy Projection (bright red for Blossom, light blue for Bubbles, bright green for Buttercup)
    Supersonic Hearing (even in space)
    Enhanced Sight
    Night Vision
    Tornado
    Fireballs (in their respective colors)
    X-Ray vision
    survive in lava (in the movie)


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## Matta Clatta (Feb 7, 2012)

Its more like everyone in the verse having toonforce rather then it just being   plain inconsistent to the point where you would have to call all their casual feats into question.

Pre-crisis superman gets beat by a monkey in one of his comics does that mean Superman is weaker then a monkey now?

Here they can survive a solar flare but then get hampered with cripling sunburn to the point that mooks can take them down.
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWrkpiWV5-A&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]


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## Shiba D. Inu (Feb 7, 2012)

PPG can't beat pre-crisis Supes even with all top-end showings .. man crosses the universe in seconds and sneezes out star-systems


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## Gone (Feb 7, 2012)

Bender said:


> Here's a list of the girls powers:
> 
> Vast Superhuman Strength
> Superhuman Speed
> ...



They have frost breath as well.


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## Bender (Feb 7, 2012)

Fluttershy said:


> Flash and Supes speed varies all the time, especially in DCAU



OMG 

You did not just use DCAU as an example.  The DCAU is pitifully low-leveled. Flash is faster than Superman. It's simple as that. This was displayed in Flash Rebirth when Barry Allen told him the only reason Supes is was able to catch up to him was the races they had were for "charity".



> take any random JL episode, you'd never *ever* believe that either one is at least massively hypersonic+



Not really.


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## Fang (Feb 7, 2012)

Nah, they can't beat him because their normal level of feats aren't impressive or consistent for their fluctuating "top" feats. Nor does Supes need his top showings to crush them in most of his incarnations.

As it stands Luke has plenty of ways to put them down thanks to his own reaction speed, and precognition:

- teleport their heads off or brains out
- dismember them with telekinesis
- shut down the synapses in their brain's to make them comatose or mentally vegetative  
- hit them with Emerald Lightning
- use Lightning Radiation and cause their bodies and internal vitals to suffer from repeated exposure of EMP


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## Bender (Feb 7, 2012)

Ryjacork said:


> They have frost breath as well.



Actually, only Blossom had frost breath


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## Shiba D. Inu (Feb 7, 2012)

Bender said:


> OMG
> 
> You did not just use DCAU as an example.  The DCAU is pitifully low-leveled. Flash is faster than Superman. It's simple as that. This was displayed in Flash Rebirth when Barry Allen told him the only reason Supes is was able to catch up to him was the races they had were for "charity".
> 
> ...


their level is irrelevant, their inconsistency is why I used it .. DCAU JL gets smacked around by people who have no business reacting to massively hypersonic characters almost every episode


obviously Flash is faster then Superman, although comics feats/statements have nothing to do with DCAU continuity


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## Bender (Feb 7, 2012)

Fluttershy said:


> PPG can't beat pre-crisis Supes even with all top-end showings .. man crosses the universe in seconds and sneezes out star-systems



So Superman can run at the speed of light to teh point he goes into the future. Mind you, I'm not at all caring the result of the battle..... *SINCE PC Supes isn't IN THIS FIGHT*.

Nah, they can't beat them because their normal level of feats aren't impressive. Nor does Supes need his top showings.



> As it stands Luke has plenty of ways to put them down thanks to his own reaction speed, and precognition:
> 
> - teleport their heads off or brains out
> - dismember them with telekinesis
> ...




Read the OP.

Luke is unable to do any of those things.

Also lightning? Dude the girls have been hit with lightning millions of times and survived it.


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## Gone (Feb 7, 2012)

Bender said:


> Also lightning? Dude the girls have been hit with lightning millions of times and survived it.



Emerald lightning supposedly ignores the targets durability. At least thats what people have been saying in all these threads the past few weeks, idk how true it is for people with durability thats higher up than those in SW.

Not that I think he will actually be able to hit any of them though, maybe with precog. But he certainly wont be able to hit all three, he gets splattered pretty fast.

EDIT: I just relised. Emerald Lighting = Avada Kedavera?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Feb 7, 2012)

OP didn't restrict Luke enough methinks

too much hax to list .. and PPG are rather average (in terms of hax) flying bricks with FTL (unknown amount of it, maybe it's 1.01c, maybe it's 100c)


and there are probably examples of his shields withstanding something higher then city+ DC, so there goes that too


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## Bender (Feb 7, 2012)

Fluttershy said:


> their level is irrelevant, their inconsistency is why I used it ..



And you failed spectacularly at producing a convincing argument of their inconsistency. 



> DCAU JL gets smacked around by people who have no business reacting to massively hypersonic characters almost every episode



The DCAU. NOT in.this. battle. 



@Fang

Tell me has Luke ever fought Him who is essentially Satan? 

Him used his powers to spread a gas that caused everyone in Townsville to hate them. He also used his powers to halt and move the sun with the wave of his hand. 


On another note I got the episode title for the FTL feat wrong. It's "Speed Demon".


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## Fang (Feb 7, 2012)

There's a feat where Luke rewrittes a bunch of people's minds at the same time with telekinesis rather then subvert with telepathy; this was way back in the Black Fleet Crisis Trilogy (5 or 6 years after Dark Empire).

Basically he used his telekinesis to precisely alter mental synapses in these people's brains to make them forcefully forget ever encountering or meeting him. He felt bad about it but he had to it.  

Same novel series has him doing this as well:



> He sat down on the sand, cross-legged and straight-backed, and brought his hands together in his lap, fingertip to fingertip. Concentrating on a picture in his mind, Luke dipped his awareness deeply into the flow of the Force beneath him. With eyes that looked inward, he found what he was seeking, like flaws in a near-perfect crystal. He extended his will.
> 
> The sand around him stirred. The rocks shuddered, shifted, then began to rise from the sea and the sand as though sifted from them by an invisible screen.
> 
> Swirling through the air as they sought their place, the stones took shape as broken wall and shattered foundation, as arch and gate and dome-the ruins of Darth Vader's fortress retreat. It hung in the air around and above Luke as it had once stood atop the cliff, a dark-faced and forbidding edifice.





> Now the stones swirled again in the air, joined by others plucked from the sea and stripped from the face of the cliff. Now broken edge fused against broken edge, and the dark faces of the rock lightened as their mineral structure was reshuffled. Now heavy rock walls and floors thinned to an airy elegance as if they were clay in a potter's press.
> 
> Now a tower stretched skyward until it rose above the edge of the cliff.
> 
> When it was done, the last gap closed, the last rock transformed, the structure securely perched just above the sand on pillars of stone extending down to the bedrock, Luke brought the E-wing down the beach and nestled it in the chamber he had made for it. It was not a door that closed over the opening, though, but a solid wall that closed out not only the wind and the cold, but the world.





> Extending his hands and his will, Luke found the points of greatest stress within the structure and pressed upon them, found the points of greatest fragility and sundered them. With a roar that momentarily rivaled the wind, the hermitage collapsed in on itself, crushing the fighter still sealed within it.
> 
> But that was not enough to satisfy Luke, not enough to forever erase the temptation. One after another, he raised the pieces of the ruined hermitage, the broken ship, up out of the sand and into the air, crumbling them with the force of his thoughts, until it was a dense, swirling cloud of pebble-sized fragments and metal bits.
> 
> Then, with a final, explosive effort of will, he hurled the cloud of debris far out beyond the breakers, where it rained down on the churning water and vanished from sight.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Feb 7, 2012)

> And you failed spectacularly at producing a convincing argument of their inconsistency.


I suggest you watch JL & JLU




> The DCAU. NOT in.this. battle.


thank you, Captain Obvious, DCAU was just used as an example of speed inconsistency


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## Banhammer (Feb 7, 2012)

Question

What if luke teleports a lit lightsaber inside one of their skulls?


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## Fang (Feb 7, 2012)

It'll be a severe head-ache.


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## Huey Freeman (Feb 7, 2012)

they hit Luke with their coloring/rainbow and unicorns beams


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## Nevermind (Feb 7, 2012)

I suppose this depends on whether or not you want to accept the FTL feats. I believe they have done it more than once.

However as others have mentioned, their powers vary A LOT.

So, meh. Pretty bad thread if you ask me.


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## Gone (Feb 7, 2012)

Fluttershy said:


> OP didn't restrict Luke enough methinks
> 
> too much hax to list .. and PPG are rather average (in terms of hax) flying bricks with FTL (unknown amount of it, maybe it's 1.01c, maybe it's 100c)
> 
> ...



You gotta understand that their strengthmay be city level, but speed augments striking power. So blitzing him at their top speed would probably go right through his shield even if they couldnt do it by standing still and punching/pushing.

I would imagine their speed is massively FTL if they were able to friggin travel through time 

I have no idea how to go about calcing something like that though...


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## Bender (Feb 7, 2012)

Fluttershy said:


> OP didn't restrict Luke enough methinks






> too much hax to list .. and PPG are rather average (in terms of hax) flying bricks with FTL (unknown amount of it, maybe it's 1.01c, maybe it's 100c)







> and there are probably examples of his shields withstanding something higher then city+ DC, so there goes that too



The powerpuff girls could knock Luke out into space just like Buttercup did to the giant eye monster in the episode "The Mane Event". Their power levels could most likely go over city level.

Has Luke's shield ever protected him from a physical assault that can knock someone out into space?


-The powerpuff girls immunity list also goes further. After being put to sleep by the sand man they were able to still keep their consciousness and invaded his dreams and gave him the worst nightmare of his life.

-After having the chemical X which comprised them drained out of them by one time villain Dick Hardy they came back to life.


-They were dipped in acid and emerged from the bath unharmed

-Dipped in Lava

List more


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## Shiba D. Inu (Feb 7, 2012)

> You gotta understand that their strengthmay be city level, but speed augments striking power. So blitzing him at their top speed would probably go right through his shield even if they couldnt do it by standing still and punching/pushing.





> I have no idea how to go about calcing something like that though...


that's the problem

also afaik they never punched or fought @ FTL





> I would imagine their speed is massively FTL if they were able to friggin travel through time


Einstein says go over _c_ = time-travel


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## Fang (Feb 7, 2012)

Swarm War #3/pdf said:
			
		

> *Luke killed the last of Raynar's bodyguards by Force-slamming them into the wall so hard their thoraxes burst, then the two Jedi were on one another, their lightsabers flashing toward each other's heads with all the speed and might they could summon.*
> 
> That was the trouble with powerful men-especially younger ones. Awed by their own strength, they so often believed strength was the answer to every problem. Luke was older and wiser. While Raynar swung, he pivoted.
> 
> ...



The second part is the most important in the feat. Raynar as UnuThul backed with the power of two Dark Jedi amping him through the Dark Nest, along with his empathic connections to other Jedi Knights including Jaina and half a dozen more along with the entire psychic power of the Killick race could not budge Luke.

And Luke countered and crushed him TK afterwards when he felt like it.


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## black scarab (Feb 7, 2012)

Luke has very powerful telekinesis.He has crushed 700 metre starships,can throw objects at relativistic speeds and has manipulated pseudo-black holes.He also has rearranged neurons in someones brain which means his TK reaches cellular levels.                                                                                        
His psychokinetic range is at least thousands of kilometres.Luke could crush the PPGs hearts or any vital organs easily with that much raw telekinetic power,the girl's durability is pathetic and it is made worse by the vast inconsistentcy of their powers.                                                                                   
I know Bioness will start preaching that the PPGs have planet level durability when they have been hurt by rockets regularly and beaten with sticks so I have more ways that he can win.

If by some miracle the girl's organs could withstand his crushing psychic power then he could move blood cells in a blood vessel in the opposite direction reversing the bloodflow which will cause death very quickly or he can form a blood clot from blood platelets and move it along the bloodstream into the brain where it will cause death rapidly.These methods completely bypass durability since he is not crushing the cells but merely moving them around.

In addition he could remove their souls or use his White-Current illusions,which can be
as solid as he wants,to distract and attack them.

By giving Luke a distance of 200km you have signed the Powerpuff's death warrent.

Luke wins.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Feb 7, 2012)

you can read a lot of SW stuff from these kind of threads 

nn to buy novels/comics


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## Matta Clatta (Feb 7, 2012)

What's a lightsaber going to do someone who can bathe in the sun?


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## Nevermind (Feb 7, 2012)

Ryjacork said:


> You gotta understand that their strengthmay be city level, but speed augments striking power.



Speed and destructive capacity correlating has never been accepted here, because in fiction it usually doesn't.


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## Bender (Feb 7, 2012)

@Fang

Luke isn't FTL and mental manipulations which includes TK ain't allowed. The teleport thing counts as space manipulation and that isn't allowed either.



Fluttershy said:


> I suggest you watch JL & JLU



I have the show on my hard drive and can pull it up anytime I want.



> thank you, Captain Obvious, DCAU was just used as an example of speed inconsistency



It's a poor example. Never has Batman shown to be stronger than Supes, never has Supes ever shown to be faster than Flash (except by air) and etc. Try again.


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## Bender (Feb 7, 2012)

> There's a feat where Luke rewrittes a bunch of people's minds at the same time with telekinesis rather then subvert with telepathy; this was way back in the Black Fleet Crisis Trilogy (5 or 6 years after Dark Empire).



You do know that doesn't mean shit to the PPG who were mentally dead after losing their colors in the episode " Mime for a change" right?




> Basically he used his telekinesis to precisely alter mental synapses in these people's brains to make them forcefully forget ever encountering or meeting him. He felt bad about it but he had to it.



As I said before, the PPG were mentally dead in "Mime for a change"  and came back.


Luke's TK won't mean shit if he's not FTL


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## Shiba D. Inu (Feb 7, 2012)

@ 200 km will they even know where to go ?


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## Gone (Feb 7, 2012)

It dosnt matter if its telepathic or telekinetic, mental attacks are banned.


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## Gone (Feb 7, 2012)

Fluttershy said:


> that's the problem



I was refering to the time travel thing, Im sure its easy enough to calc how much speed would increase striking damager.

Just not by me lol.


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## Bender (Feb 7, 2012)

Fluttershy said:


> @ 200 km will they even know where to go ?



Supersonic hearing.


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## Nevermind (Feb 7, 2012)

It's easy enough, but speed increasing striking power and the like hasn't been accepted here since it's rarely true in fiction.

A light speed punch would be way way way more powerful than a nuke though for some perspective.


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## Omnirix (Feb 7, 2012)

Even without mindrape, Luke can still use fold space to teleport his lightsaber inside the PPGs. Or use Emerald lightning. Luke once rooted himself with the force that not even the black hole of the center of the galaxy could move him. 

PPG are only FTL via acceleration. They haven't shown to fight or react at such speed. They are at least massively hypersonic though. 



Bender said:


> @Fang
> 
> Luke isn't FTL and mental manipulations which includes TK ain't allowed. The teleport thing counts as space manipulation and that isn't allowed either.


How is Telekinesis and mental manipulations the same? 

Space manipulation is not the same as time manipulation. Bioness was talking about Luke's flow walking tech.


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## Matta Clatta (Feb 7, 2012)

posting stuff that can be cited as a blatant NLF and TK feats that I can assume are being done on peak human characters. Nice, too bad the PPG go way over the durabilty of a high tier force user.
I don't think there's any point in me explaining what a hyperbole is again though.

Carry on


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## Nevermind (Feb 7, 2012)

Heroic Trunks said:


> PPG are only FTL via acceleration. They haven't shown to fight or react at such speed. They are at least massively hypersonic though.



That's the combat speed fallacy.

By this line of reasoning we can debunk pretty much any accepted speed feat.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Feb 7, 2012)

I notice soul rip isn't banned


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## Bender (Feb 7, 2012)

Nevermind said:


> It's easy enough, but speed increasing striking power and the like hasn't been accepted here since it's rarely true in fiction.



The girls don't always need speed for striking power. When Buttercup knocked the eye monster into space she just grabbed a big ass construction piece and swatted it into space.


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## Uncle Phantom (Feb 7, 2012)

soul ripping on FTL flying bricks? by Luke?


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## Gone (Feb 7, 2012)

Nevermind said:


> speed increasing striking power and the like hasn't been accepted here since it's rarely true in fiction.



Isnt that just like a form of PIS though? Im not trying to push it just sayin, the girls once time traveld by accident while racing each other home from school, that tells me that the fiction at the very least aknowledges some of the physics of speed.

Then theres also that MLP feat where Rainbow Dash destroys a barn and causes a mushroom cloud by flying into it really fast (not saying this is relivant, but MLP and PPG were both the creations of Lauren Faust). Ive also seen people argue that Thor spinning his hammer increases the striking power.


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## Xelloss (Feb 7, 2012)

Ok continue, any single reaction picture from anyone and that person get vacations.

Or baiting and that goes specially toward UP.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Feb 7, 2012)

Just popping in to say that HIM isn't a 'massive reality warper'. He's a low level reality warper, if that. He just has a huge number of abilities, and PIS/CIS is the only reason he ever loses to the girls.


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## Bender (Feb 7, 2012)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> Just popping in to say that HIM isn't a 'massive reality warper'. He's a low level reality warper, if that. He just has a huge number of abilities, and PIS/CIS is the only reason he ever loses to the girls.



I've never even humored that concept of Him being a reality warper. However, he is able to wave the sun around with his claws. Also invade a persons dreams and control them telepathically. In the episode birthday bash even the girls weren't aware of his presence. The only time they were was when he invaded their dreams (Blossom in particular).

And as said before to conclude the uselessness of Luke's lightsaber, how is it going to have any effect on combatants who shrugged off stinging effects of lava, and acid.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Feb 7, 2012)

Bender said:


> I've never even humored that concept of Him being a reality warper.



He has several feats that could be considered reality warping. Turning Octy into a giant monster, for instance, or animating the chalk creatures.



> And as said before to conclude the uselessness of Luke's lightsaber, how is it going to have any effect on combatants who shrugged off stinging effects of lava, and acid.



I'm not certain that a lightsaber would cut them since I don't remember all of their high end durability feats, but even comparing it to lava is laughable. Lava doesn't tend to burn through futuristic metals like a flaming chainsaw through ice cream.


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## Illairen (Feb 7, 2012)

So you restricted mindrape, OP, one of the most important abilities of Luke?
If you have to restrict a characters abilities that much in order for the opponents to have a chance ...bit unfair, you know. 

Still Luke wins this handily. Massive precog, abilities like Fold Space, the Shatterpoint technique,....

By the way they cannot even see him, Luke can just use concealment techniques  (cloak of shadows e.g.) and then kill them.

Cloak of shadows:

"Users of the ability could bend light around themselves, rendering them invisible to others, and veiling themselves in shadows. 

"


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## Nevermind (Feb 7, 2012)

Since I've been informed that the PPG couldn't really go FTL casually I'm handing this one to Luke (unless they have massive AOE attacks or some shit), but before I do...



> Isnt that just like a form of PIS though? Im not trying to push it just sayin, the girls once time traveld by accident while racing each other home from school, that tells me that the fiction at the very least aknowledges some of the physics of speed.
> 
> Then theres also that MLP feat where Rainbow Dash destroys a barn and causes a mushroom cloud by flying into it really fast (not saying this is relivant, but MLP and PPG were both the creations of Lauren Faust). Ive also seen people argue that Thor spinning his hammer increases the striking power.



We don't use speed as an excuse to wank destructive feats. We only go with what we've seen. Most of the time speed and DC do not correlate. Unless we actually see it, we assume otherwise.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Feb 7, 2012)

Nevermind said:


> Since I've been informed that the PPG couldn't really go FTL casually I'm handing this one to Luke (unless they have massive AOE attacks or some shit), but before I do...



They can, actually. They go from the asteroid belt to the Earth almost instantly in the movie, and they go FTL twice in Speed Demon. Might not be something they do in a casual _mood_, but they can do it whenever needed.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Feb 7, 2012)

I didn't see the movie btw .. it canon here ? 

How far from the asteroid belt to Earth ? since this is animated - a time frame exists ? calc ?


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## Nevermind (Feb 7, 2012)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> They can, actually. They go from the asteroid belt to the Earth almost instantly in the movie, and they go FTL twice in Speed Demon. Might not be something they do in a casual _mood_, but they can do it whenever needed.



Was told that they struggled on my wall when they did it a couple times before.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Feb 7, 2012)

Nevermind said:


> Was told that they struggled on my wall when they did it a couple times before.



The first time they did it in Speed Demon was by accident when they were racing each other home from school. You could argue that they need a bit of time to accelerate to it (though they hit FTL before they were even across Townsville the first time, so its negligible), but they don't struggle to reach it.


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## Bender (Feb 7, 2012)

Fluttershy said:


> I didn't see the movie btw .. it canon here ?



Do your research before you ask that question. 

Short answer: Yes it's canon. It's the origin story of the PPG.



@Eldritch Sukima

The girls can go FTL depending on their determination/mind set. If they're in a competitive state then FTL is easily achieved.



> I'm not certain that a lightsaber would cut them since I don't remember all of their high end durability feats, but even comparing it to lava is laughable. Lava doesn't tend to burn through futuristic metals like a flaming chainsaw through ice cream.



The girls have tons of durability feats. From tanking a laser blast that reduces a building instantly to dust, to tanking a solar flare radiation blast.


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## Matta Clatta (Feb 7, 2012)

The girls travel to the sun in a few seconds in the episode I posted where they tank a solar flare.
That was pretty casual too


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## Omnirix (Feb 7, 2012)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> They can, actually. They go from the asteroid belt to the Earth almost instantly in the movie, and they go FTL twice in Speed Demon. Might not be something they do in a casual _mood_, but they can do it whenever needed.



Buttercup who was the fastest was sweating when they were accelerating during Speed Demon. Not to mention they accidentally crash into someone's car while flying at that speed. Meh like Nevermind said, their powers flunctuate a lot. 



Matta Clatta said:


> The girls travel to the sun in a few seconds in the episode I posted where they tank a solar flare.
> That was pretty casual too


They didn't flew to the sun. There wasn't much of a timeframe and Blossom said they are in a "hurry". Solar flares travel at around 1400 miles per second and it was somewhere near the earth already.


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## Banhammer (Feb 7, 2012)

I still don't get the point of nerfing a side facing toonforce users.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Feb 7, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> I still don't get the point of nerfing a side facing toonforce users.



Because it was a blatant bait thread


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## Riley (Feb 7, 2012)

This thread seems slightly spitish 

although, then again I'm not too well brushed up on my SW to call it that.


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## Banhammer (Feb 7, 2012)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> Because it was a blatant bait thread



surely bioness wouldn't do that now would he?


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## Matta Clatta (Feb 7, 2012)

Heroic Trunks said:


> They didn't flew to the sun.



Yes they did 



Heroic Trunks said:


> There wasn't much of a timeframe and Blossom said they are in a "hurry". Solar flares travel at around 1400 miles per second and it was somewhere near the earth already.


The video is already posted in this thread, the timeframe in which they reached the sun would be the 5 second conversation that the professor was having.  

I don't want to have to post a screenshot for you but I can if you really want to argue about the illogical notion that they are actually flying to a sun shaped cloud emission that you think was just really close to earth and just happened to look like the sun for no real reason.

Here you go



And if you need further proof its actually the sun, in the video you see them suck in the emission with their atomic twister which wouldn't be possible if they were just traveling to a solar flare in the first place.


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## Lina Inverse (Feb 7, 2012)

Nerfing one side against toonforce users is obviously not a bait thread

obviously


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## Shock Therapy (Feb 7, 2012)

^ obviously not


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## Fang (Feb 7, 2012)

Funny part is Luke would still win, CD also mentioned how I forget about Luke's ability to rip out souls from a Lovecraftian styled psychic space horror of pure dark side who specializes in consuming souls and minds.

That even if their speed was true, still wouldn't give them anything close to a victory. Plus the range the match starts off makes it very very easy for Luke to sense and crush them.


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## Lina Inverse (Feb 7, 2012)

in b4 people say PPG can resist having their souls ripped out of them due to love and friendship and all that rainbow jazz


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## Gone (Feb 7, 2012)

None if their relevant feats are toon force, so everyone can go ahead and stop crying about that. We have fights with restricted powers all the time. Hell every fight with equalized speed is restricting one side. It's not like mind fucking is the only weapon Luke has. And you don't hear any PPG people complaining about 200km distance or the time travel restrictions. The restrictions are there to even out the fight.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Feb 7, 2012)

I don't recall a single episode centered around souls or messing with them, not even HIM's episodes. In fact, I don't recall souls ever being mentioned period.


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## Lina Inverse (Feb 7, 2012)

Soul Rip

does PPG have anything to stop that, Y/N?


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## Gone (Feb 7, 2012)

Lina Inverse said:


> Soul Rip
> 
> does PPG have anything to stop that, Y/N?



Not that I know of. Can Luke do it before they splatter him?


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## Lina Inverse (Feb 7, 2012)

that would depend how fast luke can soul rip

if he can do it with a thought, i don't see why not


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## TehChron (Feb 7, 2012)

By the by, the acid feat is them saying that they're literally immune to it as a superpower, rather than simple durability.

So that technically doesn't count as a durability feat. Heat and pressure resistance should be considered a type of immunity as well, since we're all about classifications here, since the PPG were shown to get bruised and bloodied by building-busting attacks and less.

Specifically, from the Beat-Alls, which should be considered the high-end of the PPG's limits.  Since it shows them consistently losing to that team, and needing to rely on PIS in order to win in the end.

The RowdyRuff's are a bit more vague, so I wouldn't use them as a measuring stick, though.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Feb 7, 2012)

Lina Inverse said:


> that would depend how fast luke can soul rip
> 
> if he can do it with a thought, i don't see why not



yeah, he can just decide to do it

and since their souls aren't tethered by a spiritually powerful being like Abeloth, it's not going to be all that long or exhausting for him


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## Fang (Feb 7, 2012)

Lina Inverse said:


> that would depend how fast luke can soul rip
> 
> if he can do it with a thought, i don't see why not



As fast as he can mind-fuck or TK things, which illustrated with how its  considered slow when nanosecond reactions are an easy opening for Abeloth to hit Luke and vice versa with attacks.

But I like how when I did look at Bender's posts he was essentially insisting that not only was telepathy banned but any usage of TK on the mind wasn't either. Or that Fold-Space or Dimension Rip weren't either.

Its a mismatch even with Luke heavily nerfed still in his favor.


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## HiroshiSenju (Feb 7, 2012)

Tough call. Luke either Soul-fucks or the PPG blitz. 

Did the OP mean to ban soul-ripping with the "Mental manipulation" restriction?


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## Gone (Feb 7, 2012)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> yeah, he can just decide to do it
> 
> and since their souls aren't tethered by a spiritually powerful being like Abeloth, it's not going to be all that long or exhausting for him



How long did it take him to do it on Abeloth, and has he ever been shown to do it faster on anybody els?


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## Gone (Feb 7, 2012)

Fang the OP banned mental manipulation, that includes manipulating the mind with TK, stop brining that up. From what I saw it took him longer to do that anyway. Soul ripping on the other hand is different.


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## Lina Inverse (Feb 7, 2012)

Fang said:


> As fast as he can mind-fuck or TK things, which illustrated with how its  considered slow when nanosecond reactions are an easy opening for Abeloth to hit Luke and vice versa with attacks.


then unless the PPG are faster than that they get their soul ripped out of them since they haven't shown any resistance to it


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## Fang (Feb 7, 2012)

Nah, soul-fucking isn't a mental power. Nor can they possibly blitz, from either standard distance or the 200 kilometers the OP specified.

They're getting curbstomp. Emerald Lightning also instantly killed the Vong Slayers who were outside of the Force from the galaxy. It ignores durability and resistance on physical and spiritual level.

Aside from Sukima or Narcissus, who post something that gives a clearer view on the PPG's feats, they're going to lose.


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## Kalle (Feb 7, 2012)

Since when have PPG a Soul burden of Proof is with Star Wars side because
they are made from Chemical X + all things Nice and such stuff i didnt hear the
Word Soul anywhere.
Equivalance Rule doesnt apply in this case because they are no normal Humans and not everything in StarWarsverse has a Soul? Correct me if iam wrong.

Did Luke soulfuck a Robot anywhere in Starwars? Then he would take this with Soulfuckery. Technopathy is banned so is

Mindfuckery it doesnt matter if Luke achieves it with Telecinetics
or freaking Nanobots its banned in this Thread.

"Fold-Space or Dimension" wouldnt that be Timefuckery? As far as Einstein is concernd yes.

High End Showings should be used anyway weakest Flash gets beaten by a Hobo with a Stick in Final Night or a Landmine somewhere else. The PPG speed feat is valid from what i read until now.

But even without that the Avada Kedava thing should beat one of them but...
Nobody can provide a Timeframe between Shots for Lukes Emerald Lightning.

Still Luke takes scenario 1 in any thinkable case. 

Scenario two is a different Matter. Luke takes one Girl out with Emerald Lightning 



> use Lightning Radiation and cause their bodies and internal vitals to suffer from repeated exposure of EMP


 Survivng outside the Van allen Belt makes the Girls immune to this.

Since even their Top durability feats are < then Lukes telekinesis....

I give both scenarios to Luke and everyone who does something else should think about it.


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## Narcissus (Feb 7, 2012)

> PPG FTL arguments
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The PPG's showings *ARE* extremely inconsistent. But regardless of their top speed, they have never actually fought while going faster than light. It might be something someone could argue if they were out of character, but the OP set them in character. So that argument is moot.

If I recall correctly, it took a few minutes for the girls to chase Princess around the Earth to the North Pole in the Christmas special, and they were determined to stop her.

So however the fight goes, you can rule out he FTL arguments, because even if they are acceptable under out-of-character conditions, they are IC here.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Feb 7, 2012)

Kalle said:


> Since when have PPG a Soul burden of Proof is with Star Wars side because
> they are made from Chemical X + all things Nice and such stuff i didnt hear the
> Word Soul anywhere.



PPG obviously have normal organic bodies, and don't fall into the category of robots

it's how equalization works, if they're living sentient beings, they're assumed to have souls until stated otherwise


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## TehChron (Feb 8, 2012)

Kalle said:


> Since when have PPG a Soul burden of Proof is with Star Wars side because
> they are made from Chemical X + all things Nice and such stuff i didnt hear the
> Word Soul anywhere.



*I WAS TOTALLY WAITING FOR SOMEONE TO SAY THIS*



> Equivalance Rule doesnt apply in this case because they are no normal Humans and not everything in StarWarsverse has a Soul? Correct me if iam wrong.


Jedi aren't normal humans either. They have magic sci-fi powers. So why doesn't equalization apply again?



> Did Luke soulfuck a Robot anywhere in Starwars? Then he would take this with Soulfuckery. Technopathy is banned so is
> 
> Mindfuckery it doesnt matter if Luke achieves it with Telecinetics
> or freaking Nanobots its banned in this Thread.



Mind =/= soul. 



> "Fold-Space or Dimension" wouldnt that be Timefuckery? As far as Einstein is concernd yes.



LOL

No. Time is time. Just like Depth is depth and width is width, get it? You are funny guy yes?



> High End Showings should be used anyway weakest Flash gets beaten by a Hobo with a Stick in Final Night or a Landmine somewhere else. The PPG speed feat is valid from what i read until now.



Beat-alls is their durability limit, due to consistency and need to rely on PIS to bail themselves out.



> But even without that the Avada Kedava thing should beat one of them but...
> Nobody can provide a Timeframe between Shots for Lukes Emerald Lightning.



lol Luke's FTL reflexes and thought processes



> Still Luke takes scenario 1 in any thinkable case.



And all unthinkable ones.



> Scenario two is a different Matter. Luke takes one Girl out with Emerald Lightning



In character. So one goes down (and given shatterpoints, Luke knows the safest one to off in order to manipulate them), the other two go berserk and cease to think rationally, leading Luke to easily outmaneuver them with his reflexes in order to finish them off with applicable powers.



> Survivng outside the Van allen Belt makes the Girls immune to this.


 Possibly. Or even Toonforce. But largely irrelevant.



> Since even their Top durability feats are < then Lukes telekinesis....



All Luke has to do is grab them, hold them in place, then spam Emerald Lightning.



> I give both scenarios to Luke and everyone who does something else should think about it.



LOL


----------



## Samavarti (Feb 8, 2012)

Kalle said:


> Since when have PPG a Soul burden of Proof is with Star Wars side because
> they are made from Chemical X + all things Nice and such stuff i didnt hear the
> Word Soul anywhere.
> Equivalance Rule doesnt apply in this case because they are no normal Humans and not everything in StarWarsverse has a Soul? Correct me if iam wrong.



Except every living sentient being is assumed to have a soul, unlless ṕroven otherwise, and since PPG can get ill, they are obviously living beings so they can get soul fucked.


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## Gone (Feb 8, 2012)

Still waiting to see exactly how long it took Luke to soul rip.

Also if I read that correctly Luke tore souls out of that monster after it ate them or something? Idk if thats the same as tearing a soul out of its host body where it belongs, has Luke ever torn a soul out of anything els (its own soul)?


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## TehChron (Feb 8, 2012)

Well, the thing is that this monster tore souls out of the host body and then proceeded to control it like a puppet.

So...the hierarchy goes like this:

Original Soul << Abeloth <<<<<< Luke Skywalker

And even if the Soulfuckery isn't instant, all Luke needs to do is hold the girls in place with Telekinesis, and then do the deed at his leisure. Aren't the girls asteroid busting feats only done when all three hit in concert? So individually their strength is probably less than that required to break through Luke's teraton+ TK force.


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## Gone (Feb 8, 2012)

Yea but isnt Abeloth supposed to be like 10x as powerful as Luke with the force? (or what is 12x?)

Plus I would think an ancient lovecraftian darkside monster that eats souls would be more proficient at soul ripping/eating than a man.


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## TehChron (Feb 8, 2012)

So you see what it says about Luke's ability when he actually does manage to tear out said soul, you know?

Besides, he's not just a man. He's broken.


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## Fang (Feb 8, 2012)

Say that nanosecond time-span is slow during his fight with Abeloth as giving her more then enough time to hit him.

"Asks" again for reference of time when I gave it twice or three times now. The slowest time it takes him is a nanosecond.


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## Kalle (Feb 8, 2012)

> PPG obviously have normal organic bodies, and don't fall into the category of robots
> 
> it's how equalization works, if they're living sentient beings, they're assumed to have souls until stated otherwise


Not that it changes the outcome of the fight.



> In Powerpuff Girls, the girls were created by Professor Utonium out of "sugar, spice and everything nice"



Maybe Iam biased by Pinnochio because its pretty much clear that PPG are a modern form of that. Honest question Crimson Dragoon would you claim that you know for sure that Pinnochio has a Soul?
It shouldnt matter if the Body is made from wood or Sugar. Its the origin that counts not the Body because Souls are not visible.
Robot was the wrong term i should have used androids like the guy in Alien 1 or Bladerunner.

To be honest i dont know if either Power Puff Girls or Pinnochio have Souls. But iam sure you too and expecially because of Equivalence rule Soul fucking wont work. It works in both Directions.

1.) We dont know if Soul fucking works vs the Major of Townsville
Because of Equivalance Rule we assume it works.
2.) We dont know if Power Puff Girls have Souls
We know Artificial created Humans/Robots/Androids in Starwars have no Soul.
Because of Equivalance Rule we assume its also true in PPG because of Equivalance rule.


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## Wasabifold (Feb 8, 2012)

Just for the person that says the Powerpuff girls don't have souls, blood, hair, skin, none of that is mentioned in their creation ingredients, yet they have them. It's because the Chemical X turned them into living breathing creatures.

If you are going to argue against souls, then explain how with those ingredients they were able to manipulate any of the things indicative of being a living creature.

The Suger, Spice and everything nice, only real manifests in their personalities

Buttercup - Spice
Bubbles - Sweet like Sugar
Blossom - All around friendly and nice, but not to sweet that is weak willed. (Everything nice)


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## Crimson Dragoon (Feb 8, 2012)

Kalle said:


> It shouldnt matter if the Body is made from wood or Sugar. Its the origin that counts not the Body because Souls are not visible.



who gives a shit about the origin, it's what results from it that counts

if it results in living, breathing beings, then they have spirits/souls and what not

if it's a robot, sentient or otherwise, can't soulfuck it unless it's directly stated to have one

that's how it's worked here and why even try to fix it when there's nothing wrong with it in the first place


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## Wasabifold (Feb 8, 2012)

Robots are different, because by definition they are artificial. The body functions are replicated by machines and the personality and cognitive thought is replicated by computer programs, memory banks and subroutines(or whatever else)

This is different from the powerpuff girls  entirely


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## Fang (Feb 8, 2012)

Luke has can sense completely inorganic beings like droids in the Force.


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## Gone (Feb 8, 2012)

1 nanosecond = 1 billionth of a second. That's like the speed of thought. So your telling me that as soon as the thought of soul ripping enters Luke's head, BAM it happens? It dosnt take any concentration or time to build up or reaction time, or anything like that. He just entertains the thought and all the sudden souls start flying out of their bodies?

Could I perhaps see scans of when he used this on Abeloth?


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## Crimson Dragoon (Feb 8, 2012)

if only there was a smiley for exasperated sighing...

anyway,


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## Wasabifold (Feb 8, 2012)

I am not for or against either side but I must say



> He could not have done it to a living being. But Callista did not belong where she was. The body she now inhabited, the broad life force that was Abeloth—they were not her true home. She had no true home. And Luke tore her free of the things that anchored her to the physical world.



This paragraph suggests that he only was able to do it because she was no longer attached to her true body.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Feb 8, 2012)

Wasabifold said:


> This paragraph suggests that he only was able to do it because she was no longer attached to her true body.



She was in Abeloth's and the reason he couldn't have done it to a living being is because of morals, not any lack of ability


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## Fang (Feb 8, 2012)

No, the paragraphs stats that its an act of perversion of the mnemotherapy technique and he wouldn't have done it to a normal person because he's ripping out their fucking soul. Her soul was consumed by Abeloth, who is a living being.

He literally just performed the feat on a dark side incarnate horror whose schtick is eating and absorbing the minds and souls of her victims.


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## Wasabifold (Feb 8, 2012)

I guess it could be interpreted both ways. However, it didn't say Abeloth pulled back in an attempt to keep her soul, so I wonder if it could really be said he could do this three times to each Powerpuff girls, when the only feat he has of this took everything out of him.

I haven't read any Star Wars novels. Can't get them in the country I live.


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## Gone (Feb 8, 2012)

> *He could not have done it to a living being*. But Callista did not belong where she was



This seems to imply what I was saying earlier, tearing out a soul that was inside some monster that ate it =/= tearing it out of its owner 

DAMMIT ninjad. Anyway it could be interpreted both ways, but it said "could not" not "would not"

In either case he is in character for this match, so that means no soul ripping, if it's even something he can do.


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## Wasabifold (Feb 8, 2012)

Yeah, Ryajacork. You are correct. In character means no soul ripping. Clearly there he has moral issues with it.


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## TehChron (Feb 8, 2012)

Ryjacork said:


> This seems to imply what I was saying earlier, tearing out a soul that was inside some monster that ate it =/= tearing it out of its owner
> 
> DAMMIT ninjad. Anyway it could be interpreted both ways, but it said "could not" not "would not"
> 
> In either case he is in character for this match, so that means no soul ripping, if it's even something he can do.



Thats a really shitty semantics argument, since it's *In-Character with intent to kill*, even setting aside the waffling you make prior to that.

Just because I can't shoot an innocent person to death doesn't mean I'm not physically capable of grabbing a gun and doing so.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Feb 8, 2012)

Wasabifold said:


> I guess it could be interpreted both ways. However, it didn't say Abeloth pulled back in an attempt to keep her soul, so I wonder if it could really be said he could do this three times to each Powerpuff girls, when the only feat he has of this took everything out of him.
> 
> I haven't read any Star Wars novels. Can't get them in the country I live.


Abeloth is a spiritually powerful entity and an incarnation of the Dark Side, can't really say the same for the PPG



Ryjacork said:


> This seems to imply what I was saying earlier, tearing out a soul that was inside some monster that ate it =/= tearing it out of its owner



or, you know, you could go with the explanation Fang and I came up with since it fits the narration

perversion of mnemotherapy, act of brutality, etc

what difference is there from tearing a soul from it's original body with tearing it from one that isn't its own body

both are the same damn thing, tearing out a spirit from a physical host


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## Fang (Feb 8, 2012)

No. All I'm seeing is two attempts to play semantic games.

Since the actual passage and event was Luke performing said feat on a being who specializes in consuming and absorbing souls, minds, and Force powers as well as the bodies of her victims. It was stated to be moral reasons that he would not typically use the Mnemotherapy ability against them. Ripping people's souls out is fucked up. Luke knows this.

Let me rephrase that: The original use of this power was to destroy and eradicate memories. Luke modified it to rip out Callista's soul from Abeloth, who was using Callista's body at the same time.

Luke modified it by anchoring Callista's memory in place with his mind, using the inverse of it, to rip her soul out of Abeloth's control. There's no grey in this, its very clear what he did.


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## TehChron (Feb 8, 2012)

By the way, still no response to holding down the PPG with TK into Emerald Lightning spam.


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## Kalle (Feb 8, 2012)

> If you are going to argue against souls, then explain how with those ingredients they were able to manipulate any of the things indicative of being a living creature.


Intrinsic Powerpuff Girls have Souls probably but even doubt about that is enough because if you put Starwars and equivalance rule in the Equation the outcome is different. 



> who gives a shit about the origin


Because either you use equivalance Rule or not you do that with Rifles all the Time to measure speed of Bullets. Its both outcome and creation that are important.
Actio ->Reactio. Starwars needs the equivalance to Soulfuck them in the first Place thats why burden of Proof is with them.



> if it results in living, breathing beings, then they have spirits/souls and what not


Like the Androids in Bladerunner for Example? Souls are everything about creation and it doesnt matter what the outcome is from all what i know. Souls are a religious concept. No living cells where involved. I dont even know if anything in PPGverse has a Soul.



> if it's a robot, sentient or otherwise, can't soulfuck it unless it's directly stated to have one


Whats if its an Android? The same i think. If you create a Human like beeing in StarWars with Scifi tech from annorganic Material would it have a Soul?
Even if its functions are Human on Cellular Level it wouldnt have a Soul because they are still Robots that mimic Humans.


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## Wasabifold (Feb 8, 2012)

Fang said:


> No. All I'm seeing is two attempts to play semantic games.
> 
> Since the actual passage and event was Luke performing said feat on a being who specializes in consuming and absorbing souls, minds, and Force powers as well as the bodies of her victims. It was stated to be moral reasons that he would not typically use the Mnemotherapy ability against them. Ripping people's souls out is fucked up. Luke knows this.
> 
> ...



That's not the problem. Luke clearly says he could not do it on a living being. Taking the meaning you guys are saying, which I have no problem accepting by the way, it shows that in character, he wouldn't resort to that. He had reservations about doing it the first time, but only did it, because from my understanding, he saw it as saving her soul, moreso than killing her.

He's not going to attempt to do that to a  living being in character.


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## Fang (Feb 8, 2012)

Your grasping at straws terribly now. Since he just did it against a living being, Abeloth, who possessed and owned Callista's soul. The Unifying Force philosophy has Luke using the Force offensively rather then passively or defensively for a decade and half now. He used it in-character, he'll use it again bloodlusted. 

Its a last resort or trump card technique, not that he won't.

Get over it.


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## Gone (Feb 8, 2012)

@TehChron

Luke has intent to kill with many of the fights he's in, it's not a stretch for his character. The soul ripping thing, it expressly said that he could not do to a living being, despite his willingness to kill. Er go soul ripping is out due to IC restrictions.

@Fang

Having not read the book I won't argue about it, but from what I see it could go either way. Seeing as how Callistas soul didn't belong with Abeloth it may have been easier to take out and he may in fact be unable to do it to a living thing.


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## Wasabifold (Feb 8, 2012)

Fang said:


> Your grasping at straws terribly now. Since he just did it against a living being, Abeloth, who possessed and owned Callista's soul. The Unifying Force philosophy has Luke using the Force offensively rather then passively or defensively for a decade and half now. He used it in-character, he'll use it again bloodlusted.
> 
> Its a last resort or trump card technique, not that he won't.
> 
> Get over it.



Dude, you have me pegged wrong. I am neutral. Not supporting either side. And you can say I am grasping at straws, but that doesn't mean I am. The author clearly says that Luke wouldn't do it against a living creature. But then goes on to say why he made the exception for Callista.


And the mindset is in character with intent to kill, not bloodlusted. If this was bloodlusted, do you think I would make the statements that he wouldn't do it in character?

I also have problem with the statement that the PPG can fight at FTL speed, among other things, but those have been addressed already. I am simply addressing the legitimacy of Luke using Soul suck as the reason for him winning this. Nothing more. Nothing less.


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## Fang (Feb 8, 2012)

Intent to kill means bloodlust. In-character Luke was shown to do that without being bloodlusted. Your still grasping at straws here, the passage in the narrative shows him doing it to a living being. Not too mention the only reason why he was described as hesitant to use it is because Callista is his former lover in the past.

Effecting her soul like that is tantamount to psychic rape. 

The PPG's are no ones to him that he has any sort of relation with at all. You have nothing to prove counter to this.

Period.


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## TehChron (Feb 8, 2012)

Ryjacork, the moment you started arguing that Abeloth, who stole the soul from the original owner in the first place, somehow had a weaker hold on it that allowed Luke to take it when otherwise for some reason he wouldn't be capable of doing so...You should have realized just how much you were stretching that argument.

You _might_ have a point about it being out due to IC concerns, but that's iffy at best. Going for a scattershot approach to rebuking the soulfuckery isn't really helping you out right now.


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## Wasabifold (Feb 8, 2012)

Fang said:


> Intent to kill means bloodlust. In-character Luke was shown to do that without being bloodlusted. Your still grasping at straws here, the passage in the narrative shows him doing it to a living being. Not too mention the only reason why he was described as hesitant to use it is because Callista is his former lover in the past.
> 
> The PPG's are no ones to him.
> 
> ...



Nothing except the passage itself. Why don't you counter what I said instead of repeating yourself? I'll highlight it for you, even though I don't doubt you have already read this novel.



> *He could not have done it to a living being. But* Callista did not belong where she was. The body she now inhabited, the broad life force that was Abeloth—they were not her true home. She had no true home. And Luke tore her free of the things that anchored her to the physical world.



*He could not have done it to a living being, BUT*

Do you understand the concept of exception? This is an exception to the rule. That's what the conjunction "But" represents. He only did it to her, because as the authore states, it was not where her soul belonged. It was no longer her body.

Interpretation: He saw it as wrong to leave her there, despite his belief that soul sucking was wrong. He thought it would be worse to leave her soul like that, so he shelved his morals.

Intent to kill is not the same., It means you have killing intent. Bloodlusted is another level, when all morals, senses of right and wrong and self-preservation for a character are disabled and they care about nothing more than destroying the opponent completely by any means necessary, no matter what happens to them or their surroundings.


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## Kalle (Feb 8, 2012)

> Emerald Lightning spam.


When did Luke do this. You dont know if he has a limit hence it is a no limit fallacy.
He did it one Time and it wasnt even 100% sure what it was that he used.



> He could not have done it to a living being. But Callista did not belong where she was. The body she now inhabited, the broad life force that was Abeloth—they were not her true home.


Lol he cant Soul rip the PPGs because if they have Souls their Souls belong into their Body. Ryjacork is 100% right.



> and fell to his knees, drained in an instant of all his strength.


Why bother with Soul fucking if it makes him lose anyway?

The Telekinesis is the most dangerous thing. Ripping Spaceships apart?


----------



## Gone (Feb 8, 2012)

@Fang

Noooo _bloodlust_ means bloodlust. Intent to kill just means what itbsays, an intent to kill the opponent.

And stop trying to pretend he did it to a living being. If he did then why would it say the next second that it wasn't something he could do to a living being? He wasn't tearing out Abeloths soul, he was freeing Callistas from a place that it didn't belong. It's not in his character to do it to someone even if he's willing to kill them, it's out of this fight, get the hell over it. Even a neutral party has pointed this out, but he shouldn't have to because it's right there on the paper in black and white. 

@TehChron

That's not what I said, your twisting my words now too, I'm not even going to bother correcting you.


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Feb 8, 2012)

Wasabifold said:


> Nothing except the passage itself. Why don't you counter what I said instead of repeating yourself? I'll highlight it for you, even though I don't doubt you have already read this novel.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



what's being argued again?


----------



## Fang (Feb 8, 2012)

Wasabifold said:


> Nothing except the passage itself. Why don't you counter what I said instead of repeating yourself? I'll highlight it for you, even though I don't doubt you have already read this novel.



I don't need you to highlight something, I've read the novel twice over now. Your the one whose lacking in the reading comprehension. Callista was already limited to just a subconsciousness soul possessed body and in spirit by Abeloth and non-sentient at this point as well as dead.



> *He could not have done it to a lviing being, BUT*



Wrong. Because Abeloth consumed and possessed Callista's soul and body. Your inability to get over this is amusing. Is the being whose made up of several dozens if not hundreds of souls whose currently alive not "living"? I want to see how you explain this.



> Do you understand the concept of exception? This is an exception to the rule. That's what the conjunction "But" represents. He only did it to her, because as the authore states, it was not where her soul belonged. It was no longer her body.



Abeloth possessed both her body and her soul. Are you going to keep wasting my time with semantic arguments when the feat contradicts the statement and your trying to twist it into something that was not implicated in the first place?



> Interpretation: He saw it as wrong to leave her there, despite his belief that soul sucking was wrong. He thought it would be worse to leave her soul like that, so he shelved his morals.



Your interpretation is wrong as your attempt to explain it in the first place. She is dead. Her soul did not exist in limbo, her body was being used by Abeloth and her soul was already consumed by said being before that, mind-life essence-Force presence-soul. Her ripped it out of Abeloth with the Mnemotherapy technique.


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Feb 8, 2012)

This shit is hilarious. It's right there, yet there are those who still dispute the statement, irregardless of the fact it was made by the fucking author of the novel.


----------



## TehChron (Feb 8, 2012)

Ryjacork said:


> @Fang
> 
> Noooo _bloodlust_ means bloodlust. Intent to kill just means what itbsays, an intent to kill the opponent.
> 
> *And stop trying to pretend he did it to a living being.* If he did then why would it say the next second that it wasn't something he could do to a living being? He wasn't tearing out Abeloths soul, he was freeing Callistas from a place that it didn't belong. It's not in his character to do it to someone even if he's willing to kill them, it's out of this fight, get the hell over it. Even a neutral party has pointed this out, but he shouldn't have to because it's right there on the paper in black and white.



I'm sorry. I must have missed my English class where a "living" thing isn't actually a "living being". You know. Like how a "living embodiment of the dark side" is totally not a "living being", with, you know _sentience and all that jazz_.

God.



> @TehChron
> 
> That's not what I said, your twisting my words now too, I'm not even going to bother correcting you.



Do you want me to quote you again?

Do you want me to point out that responding to what you said verbatim is totally the same as twisting your words[/sarcasm]?

If you don't like the way your arguments sound when other people quote them for responding, then _don't make them._



> Having not read the book I won't argue about it, but from what I see it could go either way. Seeing as how Callistas soul didn't belong with Abeloth it may have been easier to take out and he may in fact be unable to do it to a living thing.



I called you out for playing semantics games _because that's what debating the definition of "can" is._ A semantic game.

You are literally at the level of this guy:



> When did Luke do this. You dont know if he has a limit hence it is a no limit fallacy.
> He did it one Time and it wasnt even 100% sure what it was that he used.



=/


...


=/


Terribad arguments. All over this place.


----------



## Kalle (Feb 8, 2012)

Fang sorry to say it but you have to learn the difference between *.* and *,* because semantics can kill.



> He could not have done it to a living being. But Callista did not belong where she was.


----------



## Wasabifold (Feb 8, 2012)

So dead souls can speak now?



> Luke could see a kaleidoscope of images, all drawn from Callista’s past, much of it with him, some of it from more ancient times. He marveled at her strength, *the power it had required her to survive the loss of her original body, the strength it took her to remain partly Callista in the face of this overwhelming alien force.*
> 
> *“Luke …” She spoke with both her voice and her mind. “Join with me. Save me.”*
> 
> ...



This is the rest of the passage.

I understand Abeloth ate her soul, but the author clearly shows that her soul was still able to communicate with Luke. And he clearly sees it as saving her. His own words. Not mine. I believe you're interpretation is wrong, not mine.


----------



## Fang (Feb 8, 2012)

That is Abeloth speaking through Callista. Do you not understand that Abeloth's ability is possessing souls, minds, and bodies to expand her powers? That's the entire point of why they want to kill or defeat her in this story arc. Its hilarious how you've admitted you have no knowledge on Star Wars yet try to insert an argument based off a single novel excerpt being quoted in an attempt to twist around the wording to suit your own claim without knowing a damn thing on the context of it.

The entire point she says " Join with me. " is because Abeloth is focused on consuming Luke's soul. Abeloth completely controls all the minds of the souls and bodies of her victims.

In a nutshell, all you have going for you is more semantic pandering and nothing of content. That's Abeloth speaking through Callista, she has done it several times up to that point in the Fate of the Jedi series. Including using her body and Force powers with illusions.

You seriously have no idea what your talking about.

You've shot down your own claim as good as Thor did with posting scans that contradict his arguments.

Concession accepted.


----------



## TehChron (Feb 8, 2012)

Wasabifold said:


> So dead souls can speak now?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The soul was still in her body, connected to the larger entity that was Abeloth.



> With all the strength he possessed in the Force, *he yanked her away from her body*, away from Abeloth.



Luke soul-fucked her. He tore Callista's soul from _her own body, while distinctly acknowledging Abeloth as a separate entity_.

The only issue is whether or not he would do it in character.


----------



## Gone (Feb 8, 2012)

TehChron said:


> I'm sorry. I must have missed my English class where a "living" thing isn't actually a "living being". You know. Like how a "living embodiment of the dark side" is totally not a "living being", with, you know _sentience and all that jazz_.


Im not even going to get in to how far you are missing my point... Existing or self awareness =/= living. And even if you were right (which your not) the feat listed was special circumstances, he was freeing Callista, not using the soul ripping as a weapon.




> Do you want me to quote you again?
> 
> Do you want me to point out that responding to what you said verbatim is totally the same as twisting your words[/sarcasm]?
> 
> If you don't like the way your arguments sound when other people quote them for responding, then _don't make them._



You like using the word verbatim dont you? It was all over those other threads where you were twisting Berserkhawkz words way the fuck out of the original context, which you are now doing to mine.



> I called you out for playing semantics games _because that's what debating the definition of "can" is._ A semantic game.




Now your just using Fangs words, buzz away little fly.


----------



## Wasabifold (Feb 8, 2012)

No I don't apparently. I mean, the author says that Callista remained partly herself and says that it was Callista asking to be saved, but no, you are right.

It must have been Abeloth speaking. The villain. Asking for her enemy to save her. Let's ignore that Luke recognizes it as Callista.

And while you're at it, ignore, that he says he's saving her. Let's ignore that the author makes a distinction between the two and simply state that everything I say is hilarious and I don't know the series and am perverting one excerpt. The exceprt that happens to be central to the limitations of the feat and the technique. When all I am doing is reproducing, word for word, straight from the book.

So, ignore all of that, we get that Luke has no reservations about taking out a soul (even though the author says that he does), ignore that he didn't consider it killing her so much so as saving her (even though that he says that he does) and say he can replicate it three times, (even though the book says it drained him both physically and mentally)

Sounds about right?


----------



## Fang (Feb 8, 2012)

Your sarcasm is as terrible as your ability to try and refute the passage and actual event. Nor was Callista's ever communicating with him.

Concession accepted again.


----------



## TehChron (Feb 8, 2012)

Ryjacork said:


> Im not even going to get in to how far you are missing my point... Existing or self awareness =/= living. And even if you were right (which your not) the feat listed was special circumstances, he was freeing Callista, not using the soul ripping as a weapon.



No, I'm saying being alive is totally the same as being a living thing. Since you're the one making that distinction, burden of proof is on you to establish that.

So do so or quit complaining.





> You like using the word verbatim dont you? It was all over those other threads where you were twisting Berserkhawkz words way the fuck out of the original context, which you are now doing to mine.



Well yeah. Verbatim's a convenient catch-all phrase for people who like to deflect and backtrack by claiming "that isn't what I said", when, in fact, that is _exactly what you said_.

So you like to say I'm twisting my words.

All right. Let's say I am. Here's the benefit of the doubt. So.

*What did you mean to say in reality? What context am I just not getting on your part?*




> Now your just using Fangs words, buzz away little fly.



Setting aside the fact that I'm the one who called it out as a semantics argument first (lol), those are pretty big words coming from an argumentative coward like yourself.

Let's see you back them up. Like I said, if you've been dealt such an injustice of me twisting your words, let's hear what you _really_ meant. I'm all ears.


----------



## Gone (Feb 8, 2012)

@Fang

Look I wanna troll you back here, but imma be true to my word about not flame baiting you. But Fang stop saying "concession accepted" like anybody is somehow acknowledging victory on your part, it's just trolling. And it's not even that witty, it's like 12 year old trolling. I'm sure your better than that.


----------



## Wasabifold (Feb 8, 2012)

Fang said:


> Your sarcasm is as terrible as your ability to try and refute the passage and actual event. Nor was Callista's ever communicating with him.
> 
> Concession accepted again.



Show me where it says Callista doesn't communicate with him and then we can talk. Because the evidence presented doesn't support your claim in the slightest. Not even a little bit. 

It clearly says that Luke was amazed at what it took to remain partly Callista in the face of such an overwhelming alien force. That shows, not implies, but shows, that part of Callista still existed in Abeloth and it was this part that communicated with Luke. You have a distinction between the two there. While it is true, they now were one being, she clearly was able to separate some of herself from it. 

The entire passage refers to the Callista and Abeloth part as separate and Luke is depicted focusing on removing the Callista part from the Abeloth part because it's what the Callista part asked him to do.

Please, address the passage and stop thinking addressing me affects any part of my argument at all.


----------



## Kalle (Feb 8, 2012)

This 

I know Abbeloth is not necessary a Soul isnt she? :Y


----------



## TehChron (Feb 8, 2012)

Ryjacork said:


> @Fang
> 
> Look I wanna troll you back here, but imma be true to my word about not flame baiting you. But Fang stop saying "concession accepted" like anybody is somehow acknowledging victory on your part, it's just trolling. And it's not even that witty, it's like 12 year old trolling. I'm sure your better than that.



lol

And now you're playing passive aggressive while situating yourself on some kind of high horse!

You damn hypocrite, you really have the gall to imply someone else is trolling when you're pulling crap like that! Wow! I'm really shocked at the fact _that at this point you're resorting to ad homs rather than actually debate ._

[/sarcasm]


----------



## Wasabifold (Feb 8, 2012)

And this proves that she was absorbed and became a part of Abeloth and was now trapped inside Abeloth. It still doesn't disprove what was said later that she was able to hold unto a part of herself while inside Abeloth. A part that wasn't fully absorbed.

*smiling, his mouth open just a little, with the suggestion of movement within it—movement of dozens of beings now trapped forever within Abeloth.*

That underlined part says, "trapped" not destroyed. There's a difference.


----------



## Gone (Feb 8, 2012)

Kalle said:


> This



That       ^

Also TehChron acting like anybody is actually going to respond to him.


----------



## Fang (Feb 8, 2012)

Fate of the Jedi: Conviction/pdf said:
			
		

> Luke could not help but keep track of the fight with some small part of his mind. That was his son at risk. He recognized Ben’s tactic, Ben and Vestara spread out in a loose screen between Luke and Valin. It could be a bad fight—two to one, yes, but Valin had more than a decade’s experience on Ben and Vestara. Ben needed to remember Valin’s lack of strength in moving objects with the Force …
> 
> Yet most of Luke’s concentration was wrapped up in Callista. Her memories flooded him, her presence suffused him. *And beneath it, beneath the love for him that was all she wanted him to feel, was pain, decades of pain and loneliness experienced in her death-union with Abeloth.
> 
> And Abeloth herself. Luke could sense her at the fringes of Callista’s presence. No matter how she sought to conceal herself, Abeloth was too strong, too alien to hide successfully.*



lol                       .



Wasabifold said:


> *snip*



Keep grasping at straws when Callista's been dead for a decade and every novel including this one in the series has Abeloth speaking through her soul, mind, and body.

Concession accepted again.

Do you honestly think anyone is taking you seriously at this point? No one here is wasting any more time bothering with your inability to refute the feat or Abeloth's nature.

Stop wasting my time. I don't care, you lost before you started this argument.


----------



## TehChron (Feb 8, 2012)

And lol at Ryjacork acting as if he's making an actual argument rather than piggybacking on people more clever than him.


----------



## Wasabifold (Feb 8, 2012)

Thank you. You are just proving the point that it was two separate beings, while not disproving the points made. 

Her soul was ripped out, and she is dead. There's no coming back, even after separation. But her soul still lingers on as a separate conscious inside Abeloth Abeloth's conscious being too strong for her to hold off for any length of time.

Please continue and while you're at it, don't forget to get back to the other passage. You still need to prove that Callista's persona still didn't exist.


----------



## Fang (Feb 8, 2012)

I'm sorry, keep making blanket statements that have been disproven time and time again, its not going to give you any more credibility then you've already shot down of your own  nonsensical arguments. Not too mention any decent Force-User who can manifest their consciousness after death wouldn't be entrapped or consumed by Abeloth in the first place so easily.

Actually, fuck it you go to ignore with Matta, Ryjacork, Bender and the others. I've dealt with this shit too long and too many times over the years to put up with it any longer.

Concession accepted for the final time.


----------



## Wasabifold (Feb 8, 2012)

LOL. Now you ignore me. You haven't shot down one blasted thing. That's just sad. You're supposed to be a top OBDer. I am disappointed that you still can't address the parts of the passage I am referring to. But instead ignore, and post other stuff, which only proves again and again she still retained some of her conscience inside Abeloth.

This fact you apparently can't deny, so you insult my sarcasm and tell me I'm ignorant and fill a page with lols and don't address anything presented.

Good day to you sir.


----------



## TehChron (Feb 8, 2012)

Wasabi, I maintain that your semantic interpretation has holes in it.

But you might have a point regarding it not being in character. I'll only grant that much, since that's all here that's really non-debatable.

If Luke needs to, he'd do it. But because he doesn't need to due to the other potential attacks he has at his disposal, it'll never come to that.


----------



## Gone (Feb 8, 2012)

Fang said:


> I'm sorry, keep making blanket statements that have been disproven time and time again, its not going to give you any more credibility then you've already shot down of your own  nonsensical arguments.
> 
> Actually, fuck it you go to ignore with Matta, Ryjacork, Bender and the others. I've dealt with this shit too long and too many times over the years to put up with it any longer.
> 
> Concession accepted for the final time.



Lol your sticking him on ignore you you don't have to see his arguments, essentially hiding from them, and act like he's the one conceding.

This happens with every Star Wars thread, people (you) keep brining up irrelevant crap which bogs down the thread ad nauseum untill the original point is burried under a mountain of shit. The original point here being that soul ripping on a living person is out of character for Luke, and thus excluded from this thread. Get the fuck over it. 

That very passage made it abundantly clear that Callista was special circumstances.


----------



## Wasabifold (Feb 8, 2012)

Which is the point I was making from the start. It only ever became about if Callista's persona was still active, when Fang insisted that nothing that happened in that scene was Callista, all Abeloth, despite the evidence to the contrary. Which then implied, he had no problems ripping out a living soul in character. This is also rebutted by the passage. I don't know how you can refute author explanations of techniques. If the author had contradicted what he revealed at some point, maybe, but not when it makes perfect sense for the scenario.

Several things indicate that Luke was performing a separation. Especially since the author  describes it as a surgical "amputation", which is pretty much a separation.

I could go on and one, but the point has been made, which is all I came here to do. Whether it affects the outcome or not is not my concern.


----------



## Fang (Feb 8, 2012)

>Every single novel excerpt with Callista and Abeloth indicates the opposite and is proven by Luke's, Vestera's, and Ben's own statements.
>Claims otherwise.
>Never provides evidence.
>Doesn't have knowledge on the FoTJ series or even its books yet tries to make a mile out of nothing by abusing semantic arguments off no indicated context in a single passage out of a 9-book series
>Continues to hound on a circular argument based off non-sequiter fallacy that Callista is somehow the one speaking to Luke despite every encounter between them up to Conviction is Abeloth using her body and voice as a mouth piece
>Rinse and repeat

Keep crying those sour grapes.


----------



## Lina Inverse (Feb 8, 2012)

Lina Inverse said:


> then unless the PPG are faster than that they get their soul ripped out of them since they haven't shown any resistance to it



Wait, I thought they do not have a way of preventing this

Or is there an argument of the PPG not having souls

EDIT: WTF there is

c'mon, PPG not having souls is the counter argument? the fuck?


----------



## Gone (Feb 8, 2012)

Wasabifold said:


> Which is the point I was making from the start. It only ever became about if Callista's persona was still active, when Fang insisted that nothing that happened in that scene was Callista, all Abeloth, despite the evidence to the contrary. Which then implied, he had no problems ripping out a living soul in character. This is also rebutted by the passage. I don't know how you can refute author explanations of techniques. If the author had contradicted what he revealed at some point, maybe, but not when it makes perfect sense for the scenario.
> 
> Several things indicate that Luke was performing a separation. Especially since the author  describes it as a surgical "amputation", which is pretty much a separation.
> 
> I could go on and one, but the point has been made, which is all I came here to do. Whether it affects the outcome or not is not my concern.



The "outcome" is going to be this thread getting locked because of a certain someone throwing his thousandth Star Wars related shit fest. You can tell it's getting ugly
>when
>he
>starts
>pulling
>this
>crap


----------



## Fang (Feb 8, 2012)

Original argument: Luke's soul attack is a "mental one" and doesn't count.
Second argument: They don't have souls.
Third argument: Equalization means their protected and something to do with robots (?).
Fourth argument: Semantics.
Fifth argument: More semantics and nonsensical inanity by someone with a questionable join-date, posting style, and what not trying to abuse the context of the passage with said soul-fucking (Abeloth isn't a living being, Callista is somehow magically fully cognizant despite her and no other victims ever being like this, and she only was after she was free'd to join with the Force with Luke's mnemotherapy technique)

Bonus tidbit: Ryjacork is still baiting, albeit very badly. 

In a nutshell, they never had anything.


----------



## Lina Inverse (Feb 8, 2012)

Ryjacork said:


> The "outcome" is going to be this thread getting locked because of a certain someone throwing his thousandth Star Wars related shit fest. You can tell it's getting ugly
> >when
> >he
> >starts
> ...



not sure why you had to say crap

but again, unless the PPG can kill him before he rips their souls outta their bodies, they toast


----------



## Wasabifold (Feb 8, 2012)

So every single novel excerpt with Callista and Abeloth shows they are one right?
You mean besides the one that shows Luke thinking about how amazing it was that she was able to hold on to a part of herself?
You mean besides the one that you just posted that says



> He felt Callista affirming his thoughts, her essence washing over and around and through him, her love bright and true and strong, and the tears began to pour down his face. Luke leaned forward, pressing his forehead to hers.
> 
> She had come here, seeking answers, and found only the lonely, needy monster imprisoned at the heart of the Maw. The thing that had lured Jacen in, had damaged so many, had grown and fed and used Callista as it had used others before and since.



Again, it shows that Abeloth was using her and this entire scene just supports the fact that most of the time, she was unable to fight it, sometimes even accepting it, even though, a part of her still remained. A fact stated in the series, not even implied.

You also have nothing to refute the fact that the author states Luke would not use it on a living being, but that Callista was an exception. Another point you can't refute, because it's right there in black and white. Luke loved Callista. That's why he had to save her. Again, his own words, and surprisingly hers.

It's why the statement "Save me" is in the very first passage.

@Lina Inverse He's in character. This is the core of the argument. The feat posted states that he wouldn't do it to a living being, but he made an exception on Callista/Abeloth. Thus, in character dictates he wouldn't use it against the PPG.


----------



## TehChron (Feb 8, 2012)

Ryjacork said:


> The "outcome" is going to be this thread getting locked because of a certain someone throwing his thousandth Star Wars related shit fest. You can tell it's getting ugly
> >when
> >he
> >starts
> ...



Actually you're the one who's getting this stuff riled up with your nonsensical insistence on other people's tangents that are really only tertiary to whether or not Luke wins this.

But keep on keeping on. I'm sure you'll be able to feel as if you've won the argument despite accomplishing less than someone who actually doesn't seem to really care about the outcome of the fight itself.

Your duplicity is really something to behold.


----------



## Fang (Feb 8, 2012)

>Ignores statement of Abeloth using her mind and soul and body.
>Ignores very next paragraph in the passage:


> The warmth enveloping him chilled suddenly. He pulled back, just slightly, from her presence in the Force. Immediately, her longing for him became not sweet, but desperate, frightened, needy. He felt the tentacles slipping into the center of his being. She had him again after so long; too long. She had been a fool to have walked away from what they had had together. To have let him marry another, father a child not of her body. It had been wrong, and she would not make that mistake again, ever. They had found each other, she and Luke Skywalker, after so many wrong turns and bitter regrets. Her one true love. And they would now be together, forever.
> 
> No. That was not the way. Luke touched her cheek gently, and she leaned into his hand. Luke wanted to help her. He needed to take her away from here, find a way to separate that part of her that was warm, stubborn, brave, humorous Callista from the monster in the Maw capable of such vast evil and cruelty. It would be all right. It would all be all right. He could unravel the bright thread of Callista from the ugly tapestry of Abeloth and her darkness, he knew he could, if she would let him—
> 
> ...



>is now deliberately attempting to manipulate an argument by lying on the passages in several novels posted.

Keep grasping at those fictitious straws still.

Your inability to be truthful is really telling as is your ability to lie consistently at this point when you still selectively ignore the rest of the passage. Who do you think your fooling? Me? Nope. CD? Most of the other objective posters reading this thread?

I don't think so. 

I'm done since the points been proven.


----------



## Wasabifold (Feb 8, 2012)

Two can play at this game

>Ignores statement with remarks about Callista's ability to retain a part of herself within Abeloth.

Keep grasping.


----------



## Gone (Feb 8, 2012)

Lina Inverse said:


> not sure why you had to say crap
> 
> but again, unless the PPG can kill him before he rips their souls outta their bodies, they toast



The passage that showed Lukes one soul ripping feat said it was not something he could ever do to a living being. Theres some debate about whether he literaly couldnt do it to someone whos soul was where it belonged, or it was just a moral issue. Him being in character here excludes that from the match even is it is a moral issue though since it expressly says that it's not something he would use as a weapon. Callista was special circumstances, he was using it to save her from Abeloth.


----------



## Kalle (Feb 8, 2012)

Fang show a feat where Luke rips out a Soul that is not trapped in Abbeloth and snip the discussion away.

From what you said it should be easy for you.

Its more then implied that Luke was only able to do it because the Bond between Body and Soul was almost non existent.

Ok i admit it was probably because of CIS :Y

But again 3vs1 and even one Soul Rip takes all his strenght.

I stop posting that is a shitty Shitstorm without sense since Luke beats every thinkable scenario.


----------



## Wasabifold (Feb 8, 2012)

@Fang How can you lie when you just put the words straight out of the book? The level of debating you're doing is an eyesore, since you refuse to admit that a part of Callista still existed in Abeloth, even though it was stated.

The relationship between Callista/Abeloth is almost a carbon copy of the relationship between Jean Grey/Phoenix force as portrayed in the third X-Men movie. Phoenix was in control most of the time, if not all the time, but Jean was still able at the end when Wolverine killed her, to ask him to save her. I assume you are going to tell me that that was Phoenix and not Jean speaking right?

@Kalle In my opinion, I see no reason why his abilities would not allow him to have the ability to pull out a soul. It's pretty much accepted as a morality issue at this point.


----------



## Lina Inverse (Feb 8, 2012)

but he is still intent on killing them right?

why would he not use that then?


----------



## Gone (Feb 8, 2012)

Lina Inverse said:


> but he is still intent on killing them right?
> 
> why would he not use that then?



Because in canon he is willing to kill and even intent on killing sometimes, but even with this willingness to kill the soul ripping thing is something that was expressly stated he would *never* use as a weapon on a living being. To him its worse, and goes farther than just killing. It was described as an unnatural perversion.


----------



## Wasabifold (Feb 8, 2012)

Intent to kill is like a ladder below bloodlust. Luke would still possess all his personal idiosyncrasies. It means anything he wouldn't do in the series, he's not going to do here, even though he may possess the ability. He intends to kill them, but not in a way that would compromise his personality, beliefs or morals. He's also a little more wary of self-preservation (if indeed he cares about these things in character).


----------



## black scarab (Feb 8, 2012)

Let's forget about souls for a second

Luke has cellular level TK,this means he can send a bloodclot into their brains which will kill them.This completely bypasses durability.You would need a powerful immune system like Superman's to survive.

And TehCron is right,Luke could pin them with TK then have his way with them.They are not strong enough to resist his telekinesis.Honestly you people really underestimate telekinesis.


Luke can use Force Immersion to become invisible to the PPG making it hard for them to hit him


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## Black Leg Sanji (Feb 8, 2012)

black scarab said:


> Let's forget about souls for a second
> 
> Luke has cellular level TK,this means he can send a bloodclot into their brains which will kill them.This completely bypasses durability.You would need a powerful immune system like Superman's to survive.
> 
> ...



Unless they have shown high level of resistance against those kind of attacks this sounds like a valid way of winning for Luke


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## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 8, 2012)

Lina Inverse said:


> Wait, I thought they do not have a way of preventing this
> 
> Or is there an argument of the PPG not having souls
> 
> ...



Well they are made of sugar spice and everything nice...
Souls are nice right?


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## Xelloss (Feb 8, 2012)

Gone long enough already.


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