# Obito w/ both MS vs hashirama



## rubberguy (Mar 24, 2013)

Location:- grassy land
distance:- 30m
knowledge:- full
restrictions:- none
obito is as good as kakashi w/ his other eye.
Scenerio 2
sm is restricted.


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## katanalauncher (Mar 24, 2013)

Obito with both MS would be the most powerful character in the manga barring Juubi/So6P


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## Rosi (Mar 24, 2013)

So he can just look at Hashirama and send him to Kamui land while staying intangible all the way through? Sounds cool


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## Seon (Mar 26, 2013)

Obito himself is not tht skilled though. Kakashi level ninja. At best.


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## Ezekial (Mar 26, 2013)

There's is a reason Obito only has one Sharingan, Kamui is so retardedly powerful and if he has both the offense and defense Kamui he beats anything and anyone.


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## blk (Mar 26, 2013)

EmsXSusanoXUltimateSasuke said:


> bringer of darkness+flower world=GG



Shouldn't the Sharingan counter the genjutsu? How would Flower World affect a Kamui user?

Additionally, nothing suggest that Bringer of Darkness can be used from a distance of 30 meters.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Mar 26, 2013)

I don't know how to say that Hashirama wins. With prediction, Obito can perfectly time each Kamui. 

Though I guess he could try a Mokubunshin feint given that Madara is the only Sharingan user, or any ocular power user, whose able to distinguish clones from the real person.


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## Taijukage (Mar 27, 2013)

obito summons kurama. while hashirama is distracted, obito phases underground, grabs his arms and warps them off. followed by his head


> bringer of darkness+flower world=GG


kamui is faster than both. sharingan sees through genjutsu.


> Madara is the only Sharingan user, or any ocular power user, whose able to distinguish clones from the real person.


according to madara himself whos only known peer with sharingan was his brother


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## blk (Mar 27, 2013)

Miyamoto Musashi said:


> counter has a broad meaning. the term you need for this case is "*see through it*" which happens to just be a part of countering a jutsu. the other parts consists of reacting, and overcoming( with means at ones disposal) or escaping/breaking or flat our reversing like itachi did on kurenai



I was referring exactly to the bold, thought it was rather obvious.



> why do we have to make a separate case for Kamui users? or was it stated anywhere their body is different from the rest of the cast?
> 
> if obito doesn't warp his head( and thus his nose in the process) he breathes the pollen and goes to sleep. plain and simple, with no ifs bust and maybes



Again, i though it was pretty clear that with "Kamui user" i was referring to the possibility of warping himself that the user have.



> why not?
> 
> you're making a claim, back it up at least. debating 101
> 
> in the one time it was showcased it appeared to be a jutsu with a decent range( of which we can't know for sure the limit due to limited panel time)



He used Bringer of Darkness from a distance that was no where near 30 meters, thus there are no evidences that suggest that he can use it from such.


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## DaVizWiz (Mar 27, 2013)

> Location:- grassy land
> distance:- 30m
> knowledge:- full
> obito is as good as kakashi w/ his other eye.


Is this an actual discussion?

Obito with Senju DNA warps Hashirama within a second of battle. Because he has a larger pool than Kakashi (nearly endless IMO), half a body of Senju DNA, both eyes and Uchiha DNA, we can expect his ranged kamui to be much larger, faster, and can probably be spammed. 

With two eyes he also now has two Izanagis, possible Amy and Susano, and complete control over black hole expansion. He would have made Madara look like a fucking warm up act.

If anyone here suggests wood will stop endless black holes and un-restricted teleportation blindsides from killing Hashirama, you simply don't deserve to debate.


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## Jizznificent (Mar 29, 2013)

here in the BD i see obito taking it most of the time.

since this is a full knowledge scenario, it's still somewhat possible for hashirama to win but he would have to play it very smart.


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## Krippy (Mar 30, 2013)

Not enough information on how Obito would function with both eyes to determine a winner here


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## Joakim3 (Mar 30, 2013)

Hashirama still wins 

Obito with both _Kamui_ eyes is beyond absurdly broken as he could _theoretically_ snipe while intangible 

This being said..... Hashirama with full knowledge would spam 25 _Mokuton Bunshin_ essentially completely fucking over Obito's wrapping spree. The real Hashi can hide forever in _Mokuton Hijutsu: Jukai Kōtan_ while his clones go to town

If Obito decides to risk wrapping a clone or two, he WILL get killed in his own dimension the second he tries to phase. If he decides to test his luck by staying tangible he inevitably gets turned into paste when a skyscraper sized Mokuton branch flattens/impales him

Clones (powerful ones) are _Kamui_'s ultimate foil


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## Kazekage94 (Apr 3, 2013)

Joakim3 said:


> Hashirama still wins
> 
> Obito with both _Kamui_ eyes is beyond absurdly broken as he could _theoretically_ snipe while intangible
> 
> ...


Thank you someone finally agrees.


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## Kai (Apr 3, 2013)

Joakim3 said:


> Clones (powerful ones) are _Kamui_'s ultimate foil


Only if Tobi phases in the exact location he warps the clone, which is precisely why multiple coordinated, overlapping attacks ensure that has happened in the manga.

Otherwise wherever Tobi moves he'll be that much farther from the clone that is within Kamui. He has to be forced to stay in the same location where the clone is warped to actually catch him the instant he phases. When Tobi fought Fu and Torune, was Sasuke in Kamui able to attack him whenever he phased? Absolutely not.

The idea that a clone can lol attack him from _anywhere_ in the dimension of Kamui is an absurd misconception. If Tobi moves around, the clone is left behind in the *same* location.


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## ueharakk (Apr 3, 2013)

Hashirama still wins.

Assuming Obito can use both intangible Kamui and Kakashi's Kamui, Hashirama has some good counters to that.

If he uses kakashi's kamui, Hashi can make him warp a clone, and then Obito's pretty much screwed from the other side.

flower tree world is still a good counter to intangibility, and SM Mokuton buddah can probably replicate Konan's 600 billion paper bomb feat by constantly barraging Obito's location with massive waves of massive fists.

After obito warps a clone, it's flower tree world gg.


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## Jizznificent (Apr 4, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> Hashirama still wins.
> 
> Assuming Obito can use both intangible Kamui and Kakashi's Kamui, Hashirama has some good counters to that.
> 
> ...


that is plausible. 

but to be fair can't obito just faze underground and appear at another location like he did against fuu and torune?


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## RickMartin Ben Janardhan (Apr 5, 2013)

with both Kamui eyeballs, tobi will be the most broken character we've ever seen.

but hashi can easily counter his intangibility with flower tree world. hashi can transform the entire landscape over a miles radius into a jungle and fill the atmosphere with pollen. tobi wont be able to cross the distance of the forest within 5 min.

and his counter to kamui will be his mokuton bunshins. but hashi will have to make them right off the bat or else he will become a prisoner in the kamui dimension for the rest of his life.


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## ueharakk (Apr 5, 2013)

Jizznificent said:


> that is plausible.
> 
> but to be fair can't obito just faze underground and appear at another location like he did against fuu and torune?



We've already seen how ridiculous SM sensing and reactions are, Hashirama would sense Obito's chakra disappearing, and then reappearing and aim his attacks there.

or its possible that his punches focused on one area of the ground, might tear it up so fast Obito isn't able to fall into the ground.

of course there's the possibility of him failing to do it in time, however I think it's a viable option.


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## Taijukage (Apr 7, 2013)

nothing is faster than kamui. it outpaced someone with MS and rinnegan. it warped bm narutos clone without a problem. hashirama wouldnt even get the chance to do anything before his hand is decapitated by kamui. no more seals for him


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## Magician (Apr 7, 2013)

I still don't see how Hashirama stops a Kamui snipe from match start. I doubt he has enough time to put up Mokuton clones and then have them manuever around so Obito doesn't know the _original's_ position. Minato had to us his FTG to get away from a Kamui.

Hashirama's getting his headshotted.


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## Ezekial (Apr 8, 2013)

Nobody is beating Obito with both eyes, and I mean no one, he would be so op it wouldn't even be funny.


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## Edo Madara (Feb 15, 2014)

I think Obito can't do other things while intangible, he can't attack and defense himself at the same time. For example if he use offensive Kamui (Kakashi one) he can't go intangible and when he phased he can't use offensive kamui as well 

Hashirama will be very hard to get warped due to mokubunshin, while Obito tried to warp him using long distance Kamui, he will be open to get attacked, It will be very long fight but I believe Hashi will be the last man standing.

SM or not, Hashirama can take this.


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## Master Sephiroth (Feb 15, 2014)

Hashirama's Shunshin in base is able to cover more ground than Kamui can warp. From long range, Kamui takes longer to warp. With full intel, Mokuton Clones will wreck house. Obito won't be overpowering Hashi in Taijutsu and most definitely not in Ninjutsu or Genjutsu. In base, Hashirama can keep up with Obito's speed easily. Obito won't be able to frivolously use Kamui since he knows Hashirama knows the weakness. And then Hashirama stabs him in the back while he's distracted.


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## Trojan (Feb 15, 2014)

obito can win this even with 1 eye. Hashi can do nothing against his Kamui.


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## Lawrence777 (Feb 15, 2014)

As long as Obito doesn't immediately use kamui Hashi can comfortably win.

He makes 25 or so clones and just camps in flower tree world, which is hazardous to Obito due to the pollen.

If a bushin of his is warped then it uses flower tree world in kamui land also.


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## Edo Madara (Feb 15, 2014)

Lawrence777 said:


> As long as Obito doesn't immediately use kamui Hashi can comfortably win.
> 
> He makes 25 or so clones and just camps in flower tree world, which is hazardous to Obito due to the pollen.
> 
> If a bushin of his is warped then it uses flower tree world in kamui land also.



Kamui can deal with the pollen, All Obito need is phased his nose to Kamui dimension.


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## Trojan (Feb 15, 2014)

Lawrence777 said:


> As long as Obito doesn't immediately use kamui Hashi can comfortably win.
> 
> He makes 25 or so clones and just camps in flower tree world, which is hazardous to Obito due to the pollen.
> 
> If a bushin of his is warped then it uses flower tree world in kamui land also.



- Hos can he win, when he can't even land a hit?
- obito can teleport to the Kamuiland or burn that jutsus in no time with his Juubi's size fire jutsu.
- Yeah, Hashi surely does know how Kamui works, or obito won't trie to destroy his fodder level clones like how he destroyed Naruto's kage level clones.


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## Lawrence777 (Feb 15, 2014)

> Kamui can deal with the pollen, All Obito need is phased his nose to Kamui dimension.


That's true, but he'd still have to guess between hashirama and 25 clones so identical only madara could tell them apart. If he guesses wrong and a hashi clone is sent there that's the end. If he guesses right then Hashi in kamui land  and his 25 clones not in kamui land can still both use flower tree world.



> - Hos can he win, when he can't even land a hit?
> - obito can teleport to the Kamuiland or burn that jutsus in no time with his Juubi's size fire jutsu.
> - Yeah, Hashi surely does know how Kamui works, or obito won't trie to destroy his fodder level clones like how he destroyed Naruto's kage level clones.


- Hashi can aoe the place with flower tree world, he doesn't need a direct hit.
- If obito can burn the forest, hashi can sprout another one
- He has full knowledge in this stipulation.


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## Trojan (Feb 15, 2014)

Lawrence777 said:


> - Hashi can aoe the place with flower tree world, he doesn't need a direct hit.
> - If obito can burn the forest, hashi can sprout another one
> - He has full knowledge in this stipulation.



- aoe jutsus does not work on obito though. 
- obito can burn the other one as well. Or simple teleport behind hashi and Kamui'd him. 
- Stile, that's not enough, since he does not have what is needed to deal with Kamui. 
(another Kamui, FTG, 5+ m long jutsus)


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## RedChidori (Feb 15, 2014)

Ezekial said:


> Nobody is beating Obito with both eyes, and I mean no one, he would be so op it wouldn't even be funny.



Precisely. Obito with both his Mangekyou Sharingan would be even more hax than his Juubito incarnation .


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## Krippy (Feb 15, 2014)

Hashirama still wins. The second obito warps a clone he gets a tree branch shoved up his ass.


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## KeyofMiracles (Feb 15, 2014)

Hashirama still wins.


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## Fiiction (Feb 15, 2014)

So you give obito both his eyes but take away sm? A little one sided here don't you think?
Anyways, obito with both eyes is the worst match up for anyone to go against. I honestly don't see hashirama winning this.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Feb 15, 2014)

I don't see Hashirama winning. All Obito has to do is ensure that he uses Kamui to phase through Hashirama's jutsu and focus on getting a good shot with the other Kamui. If he has Kakashi's skill, then one well timed shot will be all it takes.


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## Fiiction (Feb 15, 2014)

Elia said:


> (another Kamui, FTG, 5+ m long jutsus)



Or just good precise timing. Kamui is so overrated, it's up there with yata mirror and prime hiruzen. But at the same time it's op. I like it though.


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## Fiiction (Feb 15, 2014)

Elia said:


> obito can win this even with 1 eye. Hashi can do nothing against his Kamui.



I gotta disagree with this post.


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## Master Sephiroth (Feb 15, 2014)

How does Obito even win this once Hashirama has made Mokuton clones? Madara beat the clones with Susano'o, which is a good way to defend against multiple opponents at once. Barring Kamui and a huge Katon, he really doesn't have much in his arsenal. Both of these are non-factors against Hashirama, because the Katon is easily blocked with Mokuton. Jukai Koutan would counter the Katon because it would literally set fire to the forest that is heading right towards Obito. And Kamui is a terrible idea because once he's sucked in a Mokuton clone he can't go intangible anymore without getting shrek't. And him just removing himself to avoid attacks won't help him offensively. Hashirama with clones will overpower him with Taijutsu and force him to use Kamui and hence he will lose.

Also, Hashirama can canonically sneak up on someone who was sensitive to anyone standing behind him. Obito will eventually get stabbed from behind like he did against Madara.



Fiiction said:


> Or just good precise timing. Kamui is so overrated, it's up there with yata mirror and prime hiruzen. But at the same time it's op. I like it though.





Fiiction said:


> I gotta disagree with this post.



Elia is a Hashirama and Itachi hater, don't worry about him.


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## Destiny Monarch (Feb 15, 2014)

Funny enough, Obito has no counter to Advent of flowering trees...........with that Hashirama wins rather easily. Without it, there is always SS onslaught. No version of Obito beats Hashirama bar Juubito. There is also Mokouton clones, the perfect counter to Kamui.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Feb 15, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> Funny enough, Obito has no counter to Advent of flowering trees.



Obito has not forgotten how to use Katon jutsu ITT.


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## ARGUS (Feb 15, 2014)

Joakim3 said:


> Hashirama still wins
> 
> Obito with both _Kamui_ eyes is beyond absurdly broken as he could _theoretically_ snipe while intangible
> 
> ...



whats mokuton: hijutsu jukai kotan


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## Blu-ray (Feb 15, 2014)

Scenario one: Obito wins this. Hashirama's one chance would be to have Shinsuusenju's onslaught go on for five minutes to wear out the intangibility. Obito would have trouble warping a single hand, much less the whole thing, but Obito could simply warp away and go on top of the statue and warp Hashi.

Scenario two: If Obito wins the first he wins this one as well. Hashirama's one chance would be hoping Obito warps one of his clones, and then, he'd take Obito from both sides. Problem here is that Obito with full knowledge would simply warp the heads instead of the whole body, destroying the clones, or if he's lucky, the real Hashi. It matters not. Flower Tree World wouldn't work since because of Katon. Hahshirama has nothing else going for him.

Hashirama could try to crush Obito with a ridiculously huge and dense forest. Obito can't warp it all and can't phase forever. Outside of that, I don't see Hashi winning, and this scenario is assuming Obito doesn't warp him first.


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## Destiny Monarch (Feb 15, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Obito has not forgotten how to use Katon jutsu ITT.



Katon Jutsu do nothing. If anything, it actually makes the effect stronger and faster, considering Madara used his own Katon on it.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Feb 15, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> Katon Jutsu do nothing. If anything, it actually makes the effect stronger and faster, considering Madara used his own Katon on it.



He could probably burn the forest.


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## StickaStick (Feb 16, 2014)

Da faq. Obito with both intangibility and long-range sniping is on the God Tier with his JJ counterpart and JJ Mads. That's not even considering about what his 3rd tech might be.


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## Destiny Monarch (Feb 16, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> He could probably burn the forest.



Again you ignore the fact that Madaras Katon (Which is the same scale as Obitos) only made advent of flowering trees that much more dangerous. Obito would basically be setting himself on fire.


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## ARGUS (Feb 16, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> He could probably burn the forest.



Katon will simply enhance the effects of Flower Tree World,,, which is what madara did as well


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## Tengu (Feb 16, 2014)

I say Obito wins, usually when someone uses clones, his original also gets weaker, since the chakra is split between the clones.
So even if Hashi makes lots of clones, Obito can still just phase trough any attack and snipe the original from a safe distance.
You need to be extremely fast to be able to hit Obito, something that Hashirama lacks.
Things would be different if Obito had to touch Hashirama in order to capture him, but here he can just send his head to kamui land from a safe distance.


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## Fiiction (Feb 16, 2014)

Tengu said:


> I say Obito wins, usually when someone uses clones, his original also gets weaker, since the chakra is split between the clones.
> So even if Hashi makes lots of clones, Obito can still just phase trough any attack and snipe the original from a safe distance.
> You need to be extremely fast to be able to hit Obito, something that Hashirama lacks.
> Things would be different if Obito had to touch Hashirama in order to capture him, but here he can just send his head to kamui land from a safe distance.



How does obito know which one is really hashirama. You can't tell which one is the original, only madara has that ability.


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## Tengu (Feb 16, 2014)

We don't know if Obito can't tell which one is the real one since he never fought Hashirama in the manga, Madara said he was the only uchiha of his age who could do that.
Even so i think he could tell which one is the real one, by noticing the difference in power, since the original is stronger than the clones.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Feb 16, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> Again you ignore the fact that Madaras Katon (Which is the same scale as Obitos) only made advent of flowering trees that much more dangerous. Obito would basically be setting himself on fire.



Because Obito is going to remain in a position where the forest's effect will make him worse off? 

Burning the forest is still a viable option for Obito if he's worried about the flower. Worst comes to worst he could simply redirect the Mokuton by latching onto it and moving it.



Kifflom!! said:


> Katon will simply enhance the effects of Flower Tree World,,, which is what madara did as well



Would you say Madara was at risk of the enhanced effects from the position he fired his Katon?


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## Turrin (Feb 16, 2014)

Ultimately this would depend on if Obito can be intangible and Kamui warp at the same time.  If he could than he'd be basically unstoppable, however personally I doubt that is the case and I think he'd probably have to be tangible while using Kamui warp, which would give his enemy the same initiative they have always had to defeat him, he'd just do more now.


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## Destiny Monarch (Feb 16, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Ultimately this would depend on if Obito can be intangible and Kamui warp at the same time.  If he could than he'd be basically unstoppable, however personally I doubt that is the case and I think he'd probably have to be tangible while using Kamui warp, which would give his enemy the same initiative they have always had to defeat him, he'd just do more now.



Advent of flowering trees is not counterable with his arsenal. Kamui won't save him. I also don't see how he would deal with SS. Mokouton clones are also a perfect counter to Kamui. 



Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Because Obito is going to remain in a position where the forest's effect will make him worse off?
> 
> Burning the forest is still a viable option for Obito if he's worried about the flower. Worst comes to worst he could simply redirect the Mokuton by latching onto it and moving it.?



Mei did not even have time to weave hand seals for Suiton, which means he would get knocked out before he can perform it. And Katon only makes it more dangerous, I don't know why you still think he can counter it.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Feb 16, 2014)

I always figured techniques of the left/right eye can't be used simultaneously, but the third power can be combined with either of them.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Feb 16, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> Mei did not even have time to weave hand seals for Suiton, which means he would get knocked out before he can perform it. And Katon only makes it more dangerous, I don't know why you still think he can counter it.



This was after she was pushed into an area where the Katon would worsen the effect. Obviously Hashirama won't be able to push a Kamui user like that.


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