# Mei vs Kimmi



## Veracity (Aug 13, 2013)

Location: Kimmi vs Gaara and Lee
IC
Restrictions:None
Prepne
Intel: Nada
Distance: 25m


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Aug 13, 2013)

Likeaboss(from SI right?) this ends with kimi getting covered in massive blankets of lava sheets and melted. He has no way to keep up with or surpass her speedwise so he is completely at her mercy.

Kimi is not on the kage level so of course he would lose.


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## Veracity (Aug 13, 2013)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> Likeaboss(from SI right?) this ends with kimi getting covered in massive blankets of lava sheets and melted. He has no way to keep up with or surpass her speedwise so he is completely at her mercy.
> 
> Kimi is not on the kage level so of course he would lose.



I agree also. But others won't. I just don't seem him perfectly evading acid that can melt Sussano.

And yes from SI. You happen to be?


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## Ennoia (Aug 13, 2013)

With no knowledge she may try to engage him in CQC and learn a hard lesson. She will resort to Ninjutsu to which many of her Suitons will be ineffective by themselves and Lava aint touching him by itself. Perhaps she can use the Suitons to throw him into the Lava but I think Kimi is too agile. Her only options would be Hidden Mist to which he uses Bracken Dance or Acid Mist to which he again uses Bracken Dance. In both situations he can likely kill her or fuse with the bones to avoid the Mist and get out of it. Given her limited feats I can only see her winning if she outlasts him, thats only if she survives Bracken Dance somehow.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Aug 13, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> I agree also. But others won't. I just don't seem him perfectly evading acid that can melt Sussano.
> 
> And yes from SI. You happen to be?



Yeah acid+lava or just lava does it for me. Water jutsu are kind of superfluous here but can toss him around a bit i guess. Won't damage him though.

The kiba avatar do not give it away...but i have not been on in a while so to be expected. I am kibaismyfav.


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## Veracity (Aug 13, 2013)

Ennoia said:


> With no knowledge she may try to engage him in CQC and learn a hard lesson. She will resort to Ninjutsu to which many of her Suitons will be ineffective by themselves and Lava aint touching him by itself. Perhaps she can use the Suitons to throw him into the Lava but I think Kimi is too agile. Her only options would be Hidden Mist to which he uses Bracken Dance or Acid Mist to which he again uses Bracken Dance. In both situations he can likely kill her or fuse with the bones to avoid the Mist and get out of it. Given her limited feats I can only see her winning if she outlasts him, thats only if she survives Bracken Dance somehow.



Why would Mei engage in CQC? That's not IC. She never ever uses hand to hand combat.

And btw, her suitons were knocking back v3 Sussano. They can do damage to Kimmi, or atleast a leave huge opening to follow up with lava techs.


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## Icegaze (Aug 13, 2013)

lava has no feats to suggest kimi can't avoid it 
acid mist won't b so effective in an open area. The second kimi realises she uses lava he uses bracken dance and kills her. Doubt she can avoid a forest level AoE technique
Water techniques didn't even damage Zabuza who is far less durable than kimi . So suiton isn't going to help


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## Ennoia (Aug 13, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> Why would Mei engage in CQC? That's not IC. She never ever uses hand to hand combat.
> 
> And btw, her suitons were knocking back v3 Sussano. They can do damage to Kimmi, or atleast a leave huge opening to follow up with lava techs.



She kicked Zetsu when he jumped over to attack the Daimyo so she's not scared to get close to people and her Suiton caught Madara in mid air. Kimimaro took like no damage from Gaara so' Suitons arnt going to affect him.


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## Icegaze (Aug 13, 2013)

People are using rank or character portrayal to say she wins 
I wonder why suddenly kimi can't avoid avid mist with no speed feats yet suddenly because kimi isn't ranked as a Kage Mei can avoid bracken dance ??? Which one has been shown to have a larger AoE
What speed feats does Mei have ? She can use ninjutsu efficiently but what does that have to do with  foot speed 

Also what feats does lava have to say it can touch kimi ? Once she misses the first time kimi won't even try coming close cuz he knows it would fuck him up. Though rib cage susanoo did tank lava . jugo cs2 who is less durable than kimi tanked Ei punch which cracked rib cage susanoo. So kimi won't b 1 shotted


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## Bringer (Aug 13, 2013)

Mei winds pretty handily.

If she puts up hidden mist Kimmimaru will have problems striking her.

The reason she doesn't use her acid mist outdoors is because she doesn't want to hurt anybody, considering she's alone here she can just put it up and defeat him while he wanders aimlessly for her in the mist.


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## Ennoia (Aug 13, 2013)

BringerOfChaos said:


> Mei winds pretty handily.
> 
> If she puts up hidden mist Kimmimaru will have problems striking her.
> 
> The reason she doesn't use her acid mist outdoors is because she doesn't want to hurt anybody, considering she's alone here she can just put it up and defeat him while he wanders aimlessly for her in the mist.



Kimimaro is going to wander in an acidic mist when he has a deadly jutsu that can cover the entire area?

EDIT: Ill just like Icegaze handle this, he's saying pretty much the same thing I would.


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## Icegaze (Aug 13, 2013)

BringerOfChaos said:


> Mei winds pretty handily.
> 
> If she puts up hidden mist Kimmimaru will have problems striking her.
> 
> The reason she doesn't use her acid mist outdoors is because she doesn't want to hurt anybody, considering she's alone here she can just put it up and defeat him while he wanders aimlessly for her in the mist.



 
He doesn't need to see her if he uses bracken dance which is an area altering jutsu 
Forest level AOE while being buried 200m deep 
 why oh why would he search for her when he has a jutsu that doesn't require him to even see the target?? Why wonder into mist ??? You assume kimi is stupid why ? 
Kimi can use bracken dance in base or at any level so it's something he will resort to quickly


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## Dr. Leonard Church (Aug 13, 2013)

Lava was so fast Sasuke was forced to Susanoo instead of dodging and kept up with V1 E on multiple occasions.

Mei's also shown large jumping feats as she jumped clean over Madara when she cast her Suitons to launch him into the air.

Mei wrecks so hard it's not even funny.


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## Icegaze (Aug 13, 2013)

Dr. Leonard Church said:


> Lava was so fast Sasuke was forced to Susanoo instead of dodging and kept up with V1 E on multiple occasions.
> 
> Mei's also shown large jumping feats as she jumped clean over Madara when she cast her Suitons to launch him into the air.
> 
> Mei wrecks so hard it's not even funny.



 karin jumped out of the way .  Jumping feats require landing don't be silly 
When she lands she lands in bones and dies. Mei lava has never even been implied to be fast . Sasuke used susanoo because he was testing his abilities also surrounded by enemies why avoid an attack then leave yourself open to any other attack?

Your argument is weak . The second kimi notices she uses lava he opts for bracken dance which ends her . Good jumping feats my ass  
That somehow allow her to jump over 200m high and over a forest is just silly


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## Bringer (Aug 13, 2013)

*@Enn and Ice*

Presumably as a ninja Mei should be able to balance her self on the bone spikes. Also she'd be prepared for it because if I remember correctly the bones don't pop up all at once. So basically she balances herself on a spike using chakra, and then the acid mist melts all of it away[Susanoo>>>Kimmi's bones]


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## Mithos (Aug 13, 2013)

Mei wins without too much trouble. 

She managed to defend herself against 5 Susano'o clones for a while, she is not losing to Kimimarou. 

Her lava can cover and melt him, bypassing his bone defense. Or she can put up hidden mist and then spray acid mist everywhere; Kimi won't be able to tell he's in danger until his body is melting and he's breathing it in, melting his insides. If Kimi tries to get close to Mei she breathes acid mist around herself or she knocks him back with giant waves of water. 

The only threat is Bone Forest, but that's not enough to take her out. The bones are not instant so she will notice them coming out of the ground and she can jump out of the way, or jump and cling to the side of some of them. The idea that Kimi can just effortlessly solo Kage level shinobi with Bone Forest is insane. It's a strong attack but it's not impossible to defend against. 

The reality is Pre-skip Lee and Gaara were both able to defend against most of his attacks. Kage level ninja have much higher reactions than either Lee or Gaara then, so Mei should have no problem reacting to each threat and finding an appropriate counter.


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## Icegaze (Aug 13, 2013)

BringerOfChaos said:


> *@Enn and Ice*
> 
> Presumably as a ninja Mei should be able to balance her self on the bone spikes. Also she'd be prepared for it because if I remember correctly the bones don't pop up all at once. So basically she balances herself on a spike using chakra, and then the acid mist melts all of it away[Susanoo>>>Kimmi's bones]



kimi can pop out from the bones so good luck standing on it 
What proof is there that susanoo>>>kimi bones
Go on ill wait for proof 
You using portrayal to suggest something that you have no way of proving 
which is just silly. also you assume she can jump 200m
High and land on a spike . Wow that's ninja for you . I see that's why she jumped flower tree world
smh
Not sayin bone forest = flower tree world however they have the same area of effect
so why does she so casually avoid it but somehow her much much smaller AoE techniques hit kimi
When they have no speed feats to suggest they can even touch kimi 

Also I know you are BSin cuz do you believe sasuke using susanoo can survive being but buried 200m deep? If so then you must believe yomi numa can be tanked by susanoo

No proof Mei has better reactions than lee who entirely relies on reaction and foot speed 
it's silly to think Kage means you are automatically better at everything a genin can do 

Mei is a Kage does that mean she can use jukken better than neji cuz that is the kind if outlandish Suggestions you people are making

Ps: feats matter if we leave everything to portrayal then Kages can only fight Kage level
More or less and the likes of naruto can only fight minato and above 
Hashirama would only b allowed to fight madara to prevent hashirama GG . minato at 1/2m
Still wont be able to touch hashirama cuz he is the god of shinobi


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## Dr. Leonard Church (Aug 13, 2013)

Ice, you so mad bro.


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## Icegaze (Aug 13, 2013)

Dr. Leonard Church said:


> Ice, you so mad bro.



cuz people are using weak arguments .
People arguments goes like this chouji is a Chunin he can break a Mountain with a punch therefore Mei a Kage can break 5 mountains with a punch 
Somehow bone forest is slow and weak and easy to avoid yet it required levitation the same ability that allowed the Kages to avoid flower tree world
Would any of you say Mei can just jump over that ??? No cuz it's hashirama. Yet his jutsu wasn't shown to be so much bigger than kimi bones which again if you remember were buried 200m
Deep while he we dying . People always say healthy itachi would be
Much stronger so why not kimi ?? Considering they both died of their illness on the battlefield 
Bias people ! That's why


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## SubtleObscurantist (Aug 13, 2013)

I'll address this in more detail later, but this will be a tough match. I think Mei is the stronger of the two, however.


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## Dr. Leonard Church (Aug 13, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> cuz people are using weak arguments .
> People arguments goes like this chouji is a Chunin he can break a Mountain with a punch therefore Mei a Kage can break 5 mountains with a punch
> Somehow bone forest is slow and weak and easy to avoid *yet it required levitation the same ability that allowed the Kages to avoid flower tree* world
> Would any of you say Mei can just jump over that ??? No cuz it's hashirama. Yet his jutsu wasn't shown to be so much bigger than kimi bones *which again if you remember were buried 200m*
> ...



Counterpoint: Mei can jump ridiculously high. She is barely more than a speck compared to Susanoo, which is by itself huge. 

Counterpoint: How does Kimimaro have bones>Madara? I don't recall Gaara being able to fully sink Kimimaro all the way down; IIRC he instead talks about "200m down" and then Kimimaro immediately uses SnM.

Counterpoint: What stops Mei from simply jumping backwards? It's obvious that the attack spreads out from Kimimaro's position. If P1 Gaara was capable of reacting without knowledge, what stops Mei, a Kage-level ninja with reaction feats comparable to Madara and V1 E, from doing the same?


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## Icegaze (Aug 13, 2013)

Dr. Leonard Church said:


> Counterpoint: Mei can jump ridiculously high. She is barely more than a speck compared to Susanoo, which is by itself huge.
> 
> Counterpoint: How does Kimimaro have bones>Madara? I don't recall Gaara being able to fully sink Kimimaro all the way down; IIRC he instead talks about "200m down" and then Kimimaro immediately uses SnM.
> 
> Counterpoint: What stops Mei from simply jumping backwards? It's obvious that the attack spreads out from Kimimaro's position. If P1 Gaara was capable of reacting without knowledge, what stops Mei, a Kage-level ninja with reaction feats comparable to Madara and V1 E, from doing the same?



You are implying Mei can jump 200m backwards 
that panel doesn't show or even suggest that 
I am not saying Mei can't react to it . Anyone can what I am saying is where is she jumping or going to ?
She reacted to flower tree world yet she called for gaara help on seeing it
She didn't use her super jump to avoid it . Why not ?

Again I know she can react its how does she avoid it that's the issue.  Can she easily or casually avoid iron world order or flower tree world ? Bone forest AoE is just as ridiculous 

again you said it yourself the attack spreads and pumps out randomly do you understand why its stipend to jump ? How is she sure he doesn't land on 1 or that 1 doesn't pop out half way through impaling her


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## Ennoia (Aug 13, 2013)

Dr. Leonard Church said:


> Counterpoint: Mei can jump ridiculously high. She is barely more than a speck compared to Susanoo, which is by itself huge.
> 
> Counterpoint: How does Kimimaro have bones>Madara? I don't recall Gaara being able to fully sink Kimimaro all the way down; IIRC he instead talks about "200m down" and then Kimimaro immediately uses SnM.
> 
> Counterpoint: What stops Mei from simply jumping backwards? It's obvious that the attack spreads out from Kimimaro's position. If P1 Gaara was capable of reacting without knowledge, what stops Mei, a Kage-level ninja with reaction feats comparable to Madara and V1 E, from doing the same?



Prove she jumped that high when Gaara is doing nothing and can help her get there with his sand. Lee reacted to the jutsu but could do nothing, the speed and unpredectability of the jutsu makes it clear that you're not simply going to grab onto those bones and ride them up. Link mei's reaction feats plz.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Aug 13, 2013)

The whole "why didn't somebody do this when the have the feat" approach is really bad and should not be used. That is like saying why don't A and KCM naruto avoid everything, why don't choji use BM in every attack etc.

In the NBD that kind of stuff otherwise known as CIS/PIS should not be factored in.


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## Icegaze (Aug 13, 2013)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> The whole "why didn't somebody do this when the have the feat" approach is really bad and should not be used. That is like saying why don't A and KCM naruto avoid everything, why don't choji use BM in every attack etc.
> 
> In the NBD that kind of stuff otherwise known as CIS/PIS should not be factored in.



It's no worse than saying if a genin can move at X speed a Kage must move at X times 5 speed 
Mei is a Kage because of her skill set and influence none of them have to do with foot speed 
why would she be faster than genin lee she doesn't need to be and won't have trained at being fast like lee did . she got 2 KG to use offensively why does she need great foot speed ? 

So no lee reacting and btw not being able to do anything doesn't mean Mei can react


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Aug 13, 2013)

Look man Dr. Leonard Church showed a feat of her getting super high in the air and you said why did she not use that to get away from flower tree world. Plot comes into play and plus if gaara can help her fly why would she even have to use a really big jumping feat?

As for the mei footspeed thing. I am sure mei shunshin which allow her to compete in kage level fights with A etc allows her to be faster than genin lee when it comes to movement in battle. Gated lee is faster than her i am sure and if you ask lee and mei to race to a finish line lee would most likely win more times than not. But that does not mean her speed is terrible just because she is not turning into blurry lines while moving. Her pure movement speeds alone should just be slower than lee's and not by an absurd amount either.


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## Icegaze (Aug 13, 2013)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> Look man Dr. Leonard Church showed a feat of her getting super high in the air and you said why did she not use that to get away from flower tree world. Plot comes into play and plus if gaara can help her fly why would she even have to use a really big jumping feat?
> 
> As for the mei footspeed thing. I am sure mei shunshin which allow her to compete in kage level fights with A etc allows her to be faster than genin lee when it comes to movement in battle. Gated lee is faster than her i am sure and if you ask lee and mei to race to a finish line lee would most likely win more times than not. But that does not mean her speed is terrible just because she is not turning into blurry lines while moving. Her pure movement speeds alone should just be slower than lee's and not by an absurd amount either.



Never implied she was slow or that she can't jump 
However she has to land no ? When she lands won't she land on a bone or stuck in the forest 
At which point kimi can attack through the bones 
It's not as easy as jumping 
Otherwise I can say kimi avoided gaara sand x times therefore lava would never touch him 

Fact is that panel didn't show her jumping over 200m high and jumping a forest distance away 
So she lands in the forest best case scenario


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## EnergySage (Aug 13, 2013)

That particular Mokuton that your are comparing SnM to has a much, much larger AoE. Literally map changing wide


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## Veracity (Aug 13, 2013)

Kimmis bones are like plastic compared to Sussano. It's sad someone literally has to address this in these forums. The assumption that Kimmis defense is even close to the Uchiha that posses Sussano is extremely sad.


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## Icegaze (Aug 13, 2013)

EnergySage said:


> That particular Mokuton that your are comparing SnM to has a much, much larger AoE. Literally map changing wide



Bone forest changed the map as well. Granted flower tree world might have been bigger (up to up really ) however fact is you can't avoid both by simply jumping . It's like me saying Mei avoids daikodan by jumping or iron world order by jumping that's just silly

@like boss what proof do u have that susanoo is that much more durable ?  
Kid jugo tanked Ei punch , kimi is more durable than jugo quite obviously 
Ei cracked rib cage susanoo . 
So no , am not saying level 1 susanoo isn't more durable am just saying underestimating kimi bones which tanked being buried is 
wrong . In every gaara vs MS sasuke thread I read gaara buries sasuke in a heap of sand and no one argues 
The same thing failed against kimi . So no kimi bones aren't plastic , nothing suggests such only your pointless bias


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## Kai (Aug 14, 2013)

Kimimaro isn't on the Kage level. He fought against a stream of fighters using mid tier physical attacks and his bones won't be able to withstand either of Mei's Kekkei Genkais, Futton: Koumu in particular displaying disintegrating effects on even Susano'o.

Mei's immense Suiton Dragon forces Kimi back and neither he nor his attacks will able to get close. Sawarabi no Mai isn't a fatal threat when lava and acidic mist is continuously affecting the surrounding area the bones sprout from.

Mei melts him with mid difficulty.


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## Bonly (Aug 14, 2013)

While Kimi is low kage level, Mei is higher up then him. Yoton+Futton will constantly hurt Kimi if/when it hits him and his regen shouldn't be able to outlast Mei either. With huge back to back Suitons to hurt and keep Kimi out of CQC range, Kimi's only chance is if he landed a successful hit with Sawarabi no Mai.


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## Veracity (Aug 14, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> Bone forest changed the map as well. Granted flower tree world might have been bigger (up to up really ) however fact is you can't avoid both by simply jumping . It's like me saying Mei avoids daikodan by jumping or iron world order by jumping that's just silly
> 
> @like boss what proof do u have that susanoo is that much more durable ?
> Kid jugo tanked Ei punch , kimi is more durable than jugo quite obviously
> ...



Jugo didn't tank Ay's punch. If you call having a hole through your body "tanking"
Then I guess that's cool. How is Kimmi, "obviously" more durable? 

Ribcage and whole Sussano are very different. 

Your comparing PTS Gaara to current? I'm pretty sure that's a huge gap, and I have to see a post regarding Gaara sinking Sasuke, so that's cool.


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## Zuhaitz (Aug 14, 2013)

The real question here is if Mei would need a whole minute to own Kimimaro.

By the way, is there a Kage that is weaker than Mei? And if there is, can that weak Kage, be so weak that Kimimaro can defeat him/her?


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Aug 14, 2013)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> I'll address this in more detail later, but this will be a tough match. I think Mei is the stronger of the two, however.



I agree.  She's certainly stronger, but Kim Kims is by no means helpless in this fight.



> The bones are not instant so she will notice them coming out of the ground and she can jump out of the way, or jump and cling to the side of some of them.



Kimi can pop out the bone she's perched on and stab her.


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## Jad (Aug 14, 2013)

I think it's closer then people think. I definitely believe a healthy Kimimimaro is a threat, and I am sure Subtle will do a good job in providing the background to this fight.

You have to remember this guy creates calcium at an alarming rate, hence his instant bone forest: the source of calcium has to come from someone's body as well as chakara. He may even be able to stagger Mei's acid by recreating calcium in his bones. Plus he has skin regeneration.

Large suitons within hidden mist and acid is just going to ruin her techniques, she will opt with Lava instead, which I have no problem seeing Kimi dodge, even in the mist. Just because he is in the mist, doesn't mean he can't see objects closing in on him. Hence how the Alliance was able to react to the attacks of the Sevenswords men.

It could come down to literally a fight against stamina and endurance, and Kimi - a healthy one, could probably take the cake. The guy does have a 4.5 in stamina. But Mei is a Kage and they usually have lots of chakara/stamina *cough* Kakashi Pain arc  *cough* or not...


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## Icegaze (Aug 14, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> Jugo didn't tank Ay's punch. If you call having a hole through your body "tanking"
> Then I guess that's cool. How is Kimmi, "obviously" more durable?
> 
> Ribcage and whole Sussano are very different.
> ...



Jugo cs2 makes him durable , kimi has a cs2 on a comparable level plus his bones which are further improved by the cursed seal if you don't Know kimi is more durable then you shouldn't b arguing in a kimi thread .  I never said susanoo wasn't more durable than kimi but it's calling kimi plastic I don't agree with. Hidan tanks regular elements with ease, kimi is far more durable so why do people suddenly think any attack from a part 2 character can kill him ?

Am pretty sure the gap between gaara isn't nearly that huge DB will reflect it when it comes out 
All gaara has got more of is stamina .


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Aug 14, 2013)

Jad said:


> I think it's closer then people think. I definitely believe a healthy Kimimimaro is a threat, and I am sure Subtle will do a good job in providing the background to this fight.
> 
> You have to remember this guy creates calcium at an alarming rate, hence his instant bone forest: the source of calcium has to come from someone's body as well as chakara. He may even be able to stagger Mei's acid by recreating calcium in his bones. Plus he has skin regeneration.
> 
> ...



It should be noted that Kimichi is also a mist ninja, and so probably not, like, totes disadvantaged in the mist.  Their village is like, in the mist?  Yah, literally.


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## Bringer (Aug 14, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> kimi can pop out from the bones so good luck standing on it
> What proof is there that susanoo>>>kimi bones
> Go on ill wait for proof
> You using portrayal to suggest something that you have no way of proving



That was the point of hidden mist, Kimmimaru wouldn't know where to pop out of to strike down Mei. I love your backwards argument 

*I say hidden mist makes it extremely difficult for Kimmimaru to attack Mei
*You say bone forest
*I give a logical counter to bone forest
*You go all the way back to Kimmimaru attacking Mei despite not being able to see her

What stops me from asking prove that Kimmimaru's bones>>>Susanoo 

Most likely vs Least likely

Pretty sure it's more plausible that Susanoo is harder than Kimmimaru's bones



> which is just silly. also you assume she can jump 200m
> High and land on a spike . Wow that's ninja for you . I see that's why she jumped flower tree world
> smh



She did jump pretty high to counter Madara's katon, however that wasn't my point. Also she didn't jump into Flower Tree World, her and the other kages got pushed into the tree world by susanoo.



> Not sayin bone forest = flower tree world however they have the same area of effect
> so why does she so casually avoid it but somehow her much much smaller AoE techniques hit kimi



Bone forest isn't even comparable to Flower Tree World,  first off the difference in range and height is giant. Secondly Flower Tree World releases a pollen, why I think the Gokage would be able to maneuver themselves in the forest until they get on top of a tree, the pollen completely leaves that point null. Anyway Mei should be able to balance herself on a spike using chakra and wait while her acid mist dissolves the bones.



> When they have no speed feats to suggest they can even touch kimi



Doesn't matter, Acid Mist spreads out in all directions, what is Kimmimaru gonna do? Run away forfeiting so the acid mist doesn't touch him. Also Hidden Mist + Lava combo practically defeats Kimmi since he wouldn't see it coming.


> Also I know you are BSin cuz do you believe sasuke using susanoo can survive being but buried 200m deep? If so then you must believe yomi numa can be tanked by susanoo



 I have no time for your strawman arguments. That's completely different, Sasuke wouldn't be able to survive being buried that deep because he'd die of suffocation. However it's completely different with Kimmimaru because he literally stretched out 200 meters tall using his bones. Susanoo while stronger than his bones, can't stretch out to be taller.



> No proof Mei has better reactions than lee who entirely relies on reaction and foot speed
> it's silly to think Kage means you are automatically better at everything a genin can do



That logic is extremely flawed BTW, also Mei doesn't need foot speed. She already has amazing reaction and handseal speed, she could arguably hit Kimmimaru with the water dragon bomb technique before he even gets a chance to use bone forest.



> Mei is a Kage does that mean she can use jukken better than neji cuz that is the kind if outlandish Suggestions you people are making





Gentle Fist is a fighting style exclusive to the Hyuuga Clan, and requires Byakugan to even be effective... of course Mei wouldn't be better at it than Neji. Hell it'd be outlandish if she even knew it.



> Ps: feats matter if we leave everything to portrayal then Kages can only fight Kage level
> More or less and the likes of naruto can only fight minato and above
> Hashirama would only b allowed to fight madara to prevent hashirama GG . minato at 1/2m
> Still wont be able to touch hashirama cuz he is the god of shinobi



No amount of facepalms can describe how I feel right now... just... just


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## Ennoia (Aug 14, 2013)

Prove she can balance on unpredictable spikes shooting out of the ground or that she can jump 20+ meters when Sasuke jumping off of his sword in CS2 using his wing as momentum did like 5m. Going to need to see some reaction feats to say she can even jump when Lee couldnt.


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## Icegaze (Aug 14, 2013)

Ennoia said:


> Prove she can balance on unpredictable spikes shooting out of the ground or that she can jump 20+ meters when Sasuke jumping off of his sword in CS2 using his wing as momentum did like 5m. Going to need to see some reaction feats to say she can even jump when Lee couldnt.



thanks all they have are shit arguments hidden most will stop him from knowning where to strike  
He came up from 200m and knew to attack gaara from behind he certainly didn't see gaara when he was buried 200m deep but noooo they casually forget that 

Mei has Zero feats to suggest she can walk over kimi 
acid mist has no speed feat or AOE to suggest kimi can't dodge it
You don't see me saying kimi can dodge daikodan or any AOE jutsu 

Also u noe bias is clear because bone forest wasn't much smaller than flower tree world . Also you won't see people claiming Mei can jump and land on a satetsu spike when sasori uses iron world order yet cuz it's kimi his attacks become slow and shit . 

kimi powered through gaara sand on multiple occasions yet it's suiton which failed to kill Zabuza that would be pushing kimi back 
smh

let me ask everyone can Mei casually dodge iron world order ??? I want honest replies 
Cuz bone forest is even more unpredictable and has a larger AOE


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## Atlantic Storm (Aug 14, 2013)

The location and distance give the upper hand to Kimimaro, but the knowledge factor definitely favours Mei here. An open field severely hampers the effectiveness of Mei's futton jutsu, which truly shines in enclosed spaces with limited room to dodge, and the distance is very much within Kimimaro's immediate range. He has the speed to close the distance relatively quickly, and also the skill-set to technically reach her from a mere twenty five metres. Though, at the same time, lack of knowledge on things like kirigakure no jutsu, or Mei's yōton techniques could prove to be Kimimaro's end as both are potential match enders. Futton would usually be a potential fight-finisher too, but as I mentioned, the location isn't exactly favourable to it so it's not really a factor here.

I believe Kimimaro has the means to 'counter' kirigakure no jutsu, since he's got a jutsu which covers a wide range - a technique which Mei also has no counter for. Sawarabi no mai is a deadly jutsu that can basically kill any unaware foe, and also grants Kimimaro further field advantage since he can move freely through the bones. However, it's important to keep two things in mind here: it's out of character for Mei to use kirigakure no jutsu at the start of a match, and likewise Kimimaro wouldn't start with sawarabi no mai either. The latter is an extremely taxing jutsu to use, which requires the level two state of Kimimaro's cursed seal to activate, and Mei herself has never used the mist against anybody except against Madara Uchiha of all people. With no knowledge of who they're fighting, I don't think either would use such jutsu first.

The key here, however, is whether or not Mei can hurt Kimimaro, and if she can do so before he closes the distance and ultimately kills her in close quarter combat. It's undeniable that Kimimaro is a master of taijutsu, and probably the greatest user of it in the manga (in terms of raw skill), while Mei has no feats. The short distance definitely does Mei no favours, but her skill-set is very nicely tailoured towards an anti-blitz maneuver. She's exceptionally quick at using seals, so she should be able to cast at least one jutsu off the bat. I believe Kimimaro will close in first, and the suddenness at which he does it would tip off Mei to his speed, so it's likely she would use a suiton rather than a yōton. This is because her suitons are faster and also cover a far larger surface area.  One of two things can happen here:

Either Kimimaro jumps back and retreats to evade it (like he did against Gaara's initial assaults in their fight), or he gets hit and further blasted back by a follow up suiton technique. Both actions would ultimately result in the distance being widened, which can leave him open to a yōton jutsu hitting him. Kimimaro is very durable and has exceptional endurance, but I don't believe for one second that he would be able to take on a large blob of lava flying at him and live through it. The yōton jutsu would melt straight through his bones. But that isn't the problem here, since I doubt anybody would think Kimimaro could legitimately tank Mei's yōton techniques. The crux of the issue is whether or not Mei can even hit him. Her lava techniques are slow, and Kimimaro is fast. Naturally, that should mean he can infinitely dodge them, right?

I don't think so.

It's true that, on their own, Kimimaro would most likely be able to evade them and eventually close in, but Mei is a master of ninjutsu and, as displayed against Madara, is excellent at performing jutsu in sequence. With no knowledge, Kimimaro is liable to eventually get struck by a yōton, or have an opening mid-dodge which Mei would exploit. There are only two ways Kimimaro could win here, and those are: using sawarabi no mai to kill her before she can widen the distance, or closing in with a blitz. Neither are particularly plausible here, and while I think Kimimaro could exhaust her chakra supply a bit, I don't think he could win.


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## Icegaze (Aug 14, 2013)

Not saying kimi is a sure winner here but it's people saying he gets trolled or looses with ease that bothers me
I don't think 1 lava shot would kill kimi 
Hidan who is far less durable tanks elemental attacks 
While yoton is above them , kimi is above Hidan in durability


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## Zuhaitz (Aug 14, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> Not saying kimi is a sure winner here but it's people saying he gets trolled or looses with ease that bothers me
> I don't think 1 lava shot would kill kimi
> Hidan who is far less durable tanks elemental attacks
> While yoton is above them , *kimi is above Hidan in durabilit*y



Based on what?
Hidan was able to tank Kakuzu's elemental attacks. 
Kimimaro, only with CS2, was able to tank 11 years old Gaara's sand attacks.

Are you suggesting that the attack of a 11 years old Gaara is more powerful (not bigger, but powerful) than Kakuzu's attacks?


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## Atlantic Storm (Aug 14, 2013)

Hidan is an immortal who regularly stabs himself in the heart, so your comparison between the two's durability is inherently flawed.


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## Ennoia (Aug 14, 2013)

Its hard to say, Hidan tanked a pressure based attack from Kakuzu and Kimimaro tanked an arguably stronger pressure based attack from Gaara. Its implied that Hidan could also tank Katon and others where as Kimimaro may or may not. Oro specifically said Kimimaro is immune to physical attacks so I would assume Hidan>Kimimaro in general durability because it includes Ninjutsu but Kimimaro>Hidan in physical attack durability.

I personally dont know if Kimimaro is taking a Lava attack but I dont see him getting hit with it for it to matter.


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## Zuhaitz (Aug 14, 2013)

Kimimaro's durability can't be scaled. He is durable enough to tank the attacks of a 11 years old Gaara and the ones from random samurais. On the other hand he hasn't tanked any serious attack from a elite jounin level character.

Why should be be able to tank Sasuke's chidori? Because he stopped the sword of a fodder? Why should he tank Mei's lava's heat and corresive power? Because he tanked the *pressure* of 11 years old Gaara's sand?

Baseless argument is baseless.


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## Icegaze (Aug 14, 2013)

Zuhaitz said:


> Kimimaro's durability can't be scaled. He is durable enough to tank the attacks of a 11 years old Gaara and the ones from random samurais. On the other hand he hasn't tanked any serious attack from a elite jounin level character.
> 
> Why should be be able to tank Sasuke's chidori? Because he stopped the sword of a fodder? Why should he tank Mei's lava's heat and corresive power? Because he tanked the *pressure* of 11 years old Gaara's sand?
> 
> Baseless argument is baseless.



your argument is even more baseless Mei should win because she is a Kage 

Also Hidan can get stabbed with a steal knife . Kimimaro can't so
Clearly kimi is more durable like the way people forget that


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## Zuhaitz (Aug 14, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> your argument is even more baseless Mei should win because she is a Kage



I'm sick of your lies. *Show me now where I've said that Mei wins because she is a Kage. *


Icegaze said:


> Also Hidan can get stabbed with a steal knife . Kimimaro can't so
> Clearly kimi is more durable like the way people forget that




So as Kimimaro can't be stabbed he is inmune to poison, heat, radiation, genjutsu, etc.

Hidan can tank far more energy (heat and kinetic energy) than Kimimaro. Kimimaro has better durability towards shurikens and swords.

Kimimaro has never tanked anything more powerful than the attack of a 11 years old kid,


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## Akitō (Aug 14, 2013)

Mei is an awful opponent for Kimimaro, and she's much stronger. Her acid jutsu would melt him right from the start.


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## Icegaze (Aug 14, 2013)

Zuhaitz said:


> I'm sick of your lies. *Show me now where I've said that Mei wins because she is a Kage. *
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 bcuz he has never been attacked by anything else 
So ur using feats for kimi yet extrapolating for Mei 
Giving her foot speed and reaction feats she has never shown 

Proof kimi can't tank what Hidan did. Sasuke cs2 wing tanked c2 
kimi is more durable than that , c2 is on the same level as kakuzu attacks 

So you are biased!!! kimi can't tank anything kakuzu can dish out because canon didn't show that 
yet when has canon showed Mei being fast ?? When has canon showed lava being fast


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## Zuhaitz (Aug 14, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> bcuz he has never been attacked by anything else
> So ur using feats for kimi yet extrapolating for Mei
> Giving her foot speed and reaction feats she has never shown
> 
> ...



*Show me the post I've made saying that Mei wins because she is a Kage or apologize for lying about  me.*

As for the rest, Mei's lava was dangerous for Madara's Susanoo. Madara's Susanoo's durability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kimimaro's durability.

Mei reacted and partially blocked clone Madara's Susanoo. Madara's Susanoo's speed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kimimaro's speed.

Mei's Lava was able to hit Sasuke and Madara's Susanoo, and  they are faster than Kimimaro.

But I guess that Mei keeping against *5 Susanoo *clones for a while aren't real feats... at least compared to struggling against a 11 years old kid.


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## SubtleObscurantist (Aug 14, 2013)

Jad said:


> I think it's closer then people think. I definitely believe a healthy Kimimimaro is a threat, and I am sure Subtle will do a good job in providing the background to this fight.
> 
> You have to remember this guy creates calcium at an alarming rate, hence his instant bone forest: the source of calcium has to come from someone's body as well as chakara. He may even be able to stagger Mei's acid by recreating calcium in his bones. Plus he has skin regeneration.
> 
> ...



Well now I have to do it!

Well, ok. For starters, I don't believe Mei would engage on close range because being as I am of the belief that Kimimaro is a real threat, and my belief that high level ninjas can detect the level of an opponent from killing intent and chakra alone, she won't take such a risk. I see her opening with a nice blob of Yoton, which Kimimaro will dodge. He can retaliate with Teshi Sendan, which she can dodge and then intercept with more Yoton on the second round, although he will have taken the opportunity to move closer. She can then use Yoton: Yokai to flood the area with lava, forcing him to activate the Juin and use Shunshin to evade. However, it will give him the opportunity to close on her while he prepares Karamatsu no Mai and Tessenka no Mai: Tsuru. However, she can intercept with Suiton: Suiryuudan to send him away. 

At this point, both will want to use their better long range ninjutsu since other options don't seem to be working given their respective defense. Mei will use Futton: Komu and spread out the acid mist while retaining as much power as possible. Kimimaro will use Sawarabi no Mai. Mei has the speed and reflexes to evade and with help from Yoton to melt off the tips, she can evade injury. But she will  have to come to a rest on the side of one of the spikes given the AOE. From this spike, Kimimaro can emerge with Tessenka no Mai: Hana. At this point, it all comes down to whether or not the acid mist will be concentrated enough to start melting him, which would delay him long enough for Mei to hit him with a concentrated burst of Fuuton: Komu, which would finish the match. 

I'll give it to Mei 6.5 times out of 10 with high difficulty.


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## Icegaze (Aug 14, 2013)

Zuhaitz said:


> *Show me the post I've made saying that Mei wins because she is a Kage or apologize for lying about  me.*
> 
> As for the rest, Mei's lava was dangerous for Madara's Susanoo. Madara's Susanoo's durability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kimimaro's durability.
> 
> ...



Bias and BS who says kimi can't tank susanoo attack and keep up as long as Mei did 
BS who says lower levels of susanoo are more durable 
Anyways am done arguing with u 

Mei keeping up with 5 susanoo was off panelled we have no idea how many times she was saved 
Kimi survived or dodged FRS off panel 
FRS>>>>>>>>>>>>anything Mei has


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## Zuhaitz (Aug 14, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> Bias and BS who says kimi can't tank susanoo attack and keep up as long as Mei did



Way to miss the point.
Mei has blocked Susanoo's speed. So she can dodge Kimimaro's attacking speed.
Mei has melted and damaged Susanoo with his attacks. So she can damage and injure Kimimaro with 0 troubles.
Mei was able to hit Susanoo with his attacks. So she won't have troubles hitting Kimimaro.



Icegaze said:


> BS who says lower levels of susanoo are more durable
> Anyways am done arguing with u



This goes to my sign, Icegaze:"Kimimaro is more durable than Susanoo".



Icegaze said:


> Mei keeping up with 5 susanoo was off panelled we have no idea how many times she was saved
> Kimi survived or dodged FRS off panel
> FRS>>>>>>>>>>>>anything Mei has



So now FRS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5 Madaras


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## Icegaze (Aug 14, 2013)

Zuhaitz said:


> Way to miss the point.
> Mei has blocked Susanoo's speed. So she can dodge Kimimaro's attacking speed.
> Mei has melted and damaged Susanoo with his attacks. So she can damage and injure Kimimaro with 0 troubles.
> Mei was able to hit Susanoo with his attacks. So she won't have troubles hitting Kimimaro.
> ...



No but FRS>>>>>>>anything Mei has so way to miss my point 
FRS is also alot faster than Mei attacks


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## Zuhaitz (Aug 14, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> No but FRS>>>>>>>anything Mei has so way to miss my point
> FRS is also alot faster than Mei attacks



Miss the point? 
My bad, I was trying to ignore the fact that you are suggesting that Kimimaro could even hope to tank the FRS


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## Veracity (Aug 14, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> Jugo cs2 makes him durable , kimi has a cs2 on a comparable level plus his bones which are further improved by the cursed seal if you don't Know kimi is more durable then you shouldn't b arguing in a kimi thread .  I never said susanoo wasn't more durable than kimi but it's calling kimi plastic I don't agree with. Hidan tanks regular elements with ease, kimi is far more durable so why do people suddenly think any attack from a part 2 character can kill him ?
> 
> Am pretty sure the gap between gaara isn't nearly that huge DB will reflect it when it comes out
> All gaara has got more of is stamina .



And still you haven't proved anything. I don't want your baseless opinion. I want a DB reference or a manga feat. PROVE that Kimmi, "obviously" has better durabilty.

Feats wise, Sussano does make Kimmi look like plastic. Kimmi has one impressive durabilty feat while Sussano has a plethora. You honestly just have to use your common sense. Sussano is basically Sasukes trump card and is revered as one of the strongest defenses ever created. I have yet to even here this about Kimmi.

You really can't compare the 2. Hidan is better at taking certain types of damages
, and he feels pain a lot less. Sorta like Wolverine.

Your funny. Your telling me, I'd Tsunade chakra boosted PTS Gaara, he could fight side by side the Kage? That's cute. Gaara had upgraded in speed,reactions, strentgh , intelligence, stamina, and versatility. He was reacting to v1 Ay, Kage Summit Sasuke, and even Sasukes Enton. So your argument is shitty.

And don't bring up, "he's never had the chance too, so we don't know," shit. That's not how it works here. Especially with exaggerated powerscaling. Just because Tsunade hasn't had the chance to punch Galactus, doesn't mean she's going to one shot him.

And ALSO don't bring up no off-panel shit. That FRS feat is bullshit unless you can prove so. Just like Izuna died by the hands of Tobirama. Just like Hanzo soloing the Sannin.


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## Mithos (Aug 14, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> bcuz he has never been attacked by anything else
> So ur using feats for kimi yet extrapolating for Mei
> Giving her foot speed and reaction feats she has never shown
> 
> ...



The Gokage were a pretty good distance away from Madara [1], yet Mei was able to cross the distance and cast a suiton to counter Madara's katon before it could hit Tsunade [2]. She is able to react to attacks from Madara, defend herself against 5 Susano'o clones for a while, and keep up with the other Gokage to launch coordinated attacks. 

Her reaction speed, shunshin and jutsu casting speed are all more than sufficient to deal with Kimi.


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## Quikdraw7777 (Aug 14, 2013)

Damn, Kimimaro seems to be quite popular in the battledome these days....


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## Icegaze (Aug 14, 2013)

Quikdraw7777 said:


> Damn, Kimimaro seems to be quite popular in the battledome these days....



i know right. Dont know who started it. He is quite powerful though. I mean his ace keeps being ignored. I always see kamui GG even when kakashi is fighting people well above him without kamui. Yet kimi ace which again shoudlnt just be jumped over gets ignored or is called slow. I just find that weird. Not comparing kamui to bracken dance at all. I would say though both certainly put them above their respective level


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## Senkou (Aug 14, 2013)

I don't understand the hidden mist argument.

Kimimaro is also from the hidden mist, or at least the country, and was engaged in war with the village. I'd think it's fair to say hidden mist jutsu isn't much of a hinderance to his eye sight. If not for geographical birth, then at least for the war. Seeing how kiri nin would likely use the jutsu during war if it meant Kaguya can't hit/see anything.

Acid mist is a different story (damage). I'm just talking about hidden mist. 

As for Mei v. Kimi. It's difficult for me to say. I'm not sure how well her Lava works. Its the x-factor. She appears as a ninjutsu nuke, so she'd likely spam ranged jutsu but with no knowledge, why would she try to keep distance? Not knowing Kimi is a tai nuke.

The true battle is Mei's lava vs Kimi's bone. If her lava can melt his bone, then Mei wins. A bracken dance countered by a lava AoE, is perefect foil. If Mei's lava can't, then Mei could definitely lose out to bracken dance.

*Side note:* since OP never stated healthy Kimi. Then Mei wins. Her chakra pool is probably big enough to stall Kimi long enough for him to succumb to illness.


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## Icegaze (Aug 14, 2013)

i agree if kimi is sick he looses. If he is healthy a stands a much better chance. 
What i disagree with is people saying Mei can just jump over bracken dance. I mean itachi didnt just jump over a much much smaller version. He uses susanoo to cut it down. So yes mei can melt the bones, but what stops new ones from reappearing ?? read on the technique people, kimi is growing a forest of bones similar to how hashirama grows a forest of trees. You dont expect mei to melt birth of trees now do you??


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## Senkou (Aug 14, 2013)

I see what you mean Icegaze.

I'm not sure if Mei has anything to avoid or wall the bracken dance. Going based on what she has shown, she gets wrecked by BD.

She'd have to blitz early and hope to get it done quick, unless she could stall at long range. With no knowledge though, she'd likely not look to keep distance. Which means opportunity for BD to be used.

As for, lava the birth of trees. Once lava hits, a forest fire would start. Neutralizing the trees.


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## Icegaze (Aug 14, 2013)

whether mei is at a distance or not bracken dance can and will be used the second kimi notices she is using lava. I mean who wants to get close to that if they can avoid it?
its simple, Mei uses lava, kimi counter attacks with finger bullets which mei blocks quite casually. Once kimi lands on his feet after his acrobatic dodge. He uses bracken dance, because getting close is simply unnecessary 

think about it from kimi perspective, he is analytic in battle. If someone starts the fight with lava its not the type of person you want to drag the battle with. 
never know what madness the person could pull up next.

Link removed

seeing sand kimi refused to come close knowing gaara has a good defense and that gaara isnt close range. So please tell me again why does anyone think kimi would be anywhere close to Mei?  you can all agree any attack is easier to dodge the further away you are correct. So i dont see kimi being closer than 10m, 
his battle sense will also let him determine mei jutsu range very quickly at which point he wont be coming any closer. Finger bones like i said will obviously fail at which point bracken dance pops out. *and no people she cant just jump over 200m high  and land outside the range. Also you must realize kimi would see her jumping if she did and simply grow bones where she is to land. Not saying there are no counters to this jutsu but jumping isnt the way. It would be like me saying mei can jump over deidara c2 mines and land on the other side of the battlefield where there are no mines.  *


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## Ennoia (Aug 14, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> How does this pertain to what I said lol? I agree mostly. Gaara when he fought Kimmi was about an Elite Jonin lvl(*with lee being Jonin*) This together makes Kimmi about very low Kage level, which is till pretty damn impressive. But IMO, ALL the Gokage are Mid-Tier Kage, even Mei, and definitely Gaara. His skills and strength have increased substantially. And I've already proven this.



Going to need an explanation here. Lee was said to be slower and more linear than in the Chunin Exams so if he is Jonin level here then so many questions arise.


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## Icegaze (Aug 14, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> I can't show you were this is exactly stated, but I can use common sense. Ay was striking the hell out of Sasuke and was only cracking his ribcage. Mind you, Ay is known for being top tier in strentgh. The combined forces of D,Gaara,Temari,And Kankuro didn't even dent Sasukes Sussano. The Gokage all together had to unleash some of their strongest attacks just to crack through Madara's simple v3 Sussano. Mind you, to accomplish this, they had to increase Ay's weight and utilize the strongest character in the manga. Those specific feats, make Kimmis Bones look like plastic, and I still doubt it's even close to Sussano Ribcage. If that's so, then even Ay would have problems harming Kimmi. Which is laughable.
> 
> I guess that makes sense.
> 
> How does this pertain to what I said lol? I agree mostly. Gaara when he fought Kimmi was about an Elite Jonin lvl(with lee being Jonin) This together makes Kimmi about very low Kage level, which is till pretty damn impressive. But IMO, ALL the Gokage are Mid-Tier Kage, even Mei, and definitely Gaara. His skills and strength have increased substantially. And I've already proven this.



Your still using the same argument kimi bones are plastic because rib cage susanoo faced stronger enemies . It's not like if kimi bones were being broken left right and centre 

Also it took Ei 2 punches to down jugo kimi can surely take more. The same way it seems obvious to u susanoo is more durable than kimi is the same way it's obvious to me that kimi is more durable than jugo. So kimi takes Maybe about 4 which makes him easily more durable than rib cage susnaoo . Which cracked vs 1 punch

Not saying kimi can tank anything Mei has or walk away from it like nothing happened 
However even he will know that in which case he opts for SnM which again can't be easily evaded by jumping otherwise kimi won't even be low Kage level or even Jounin level 
If your best attack can be avoided by simply jumping your below chouji part 1
Level


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## Veracity (Aug 14, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> Your still using the same argument kimi bones are plastic because rib cage susanoo faced stronger enemies . It's not like if kimi bones were being broken left right and centre
> 
> Also it took Ei 2 punches to down jugo kimi can surely take more. The same way it seems obvious to u susanoo is more durable than kimi is the same way it's obvious to me that kimi is more durable than jugo. So kimi takes Maybe about 4 which makes him easily more durable than rib cage susnaoo . Which cracked vs 1 punch
> 
> ...



Kimmi want walking through Gaara's defenses. Why don't you understand that? He was actually being pressured. And the difference between fighting v2 Ay and PTS Gaara is very large. 

How can Kimmi surely take more? You gonna prove this? Because your probably can't. And Ay was toying with Jugo and using v1 speeds. He was obviously even surprised that Jugo could even take a punch that hard. His first punch was a soft punch that tore a hole though Jugo. Ay didn't expect this. Then he used a STRONGER elbow and completely knocked him out. He could have done so with one punch easily. And you surely don't believe that Jugo hasn't changed since the times he was getting manhandled by Kimmi? 

Also the only reason Ay successful was in even cracking Sussano ribcage was because he was was using his v2 shunshin speed in conjunction with his strongest body slam. He would completely destroy Jugo or Kimmi with a liger bomb.

I know for sure Meis Suiton will send Kimmi flying like a bullet. Her Lava tech will Hurt him to large degree, and her acid most will definitely kill him. The rest is up to speculation I assume.  

And how so? Tsunades most powerful technique can be countered by simply dodging. Doesn't mean it's neccersaily an easy task. And it doesn't mean it's weak.


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## Icegaze (Aug 15, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> Kimmi want walking through Gaara's defenses. Why don't you understand that? He was actually being pressured. And the difference between fighting v2 Ay and PTS Gaara is very large.
> 
> How can Kimmi surely take more? You gonna prove this? Because your probably can't. And Ay was toying with Jugo and using v1 speeds. He was obviously even surprised that Jugo could even take a punch that hard. His first punch was a soft punch that tore a hole though Jugo. Ay didn't expect this. Then he used a STRONGER elbow and completely knocked him out. He could have done so with one punch easily. And you surely don't believe that Jugo hasn't changed since the times he was getting manhandled by Kimmi?
> 
> ...



You know tsunade most powerful technique is her healing right
So not the same thing. Ok I give up kimi can be killed by a kunai . Jugo is 100 times more durable. However it's silly to think Mei can just jump over his SnM why didn't itachi do that against a baby version of the technique ? fact is whether SnM lands or not kimi would have changed the land scape to his advantage makes it alot easer for him. I guess Mei can just jump over every attack now 
Mei can avoid kakuzu elemental attacks by jumping Mei can avoid daikodan from kisame by jumping 
Mei avoids 1000 sharks by jumping. Guess she immune to most AoE jutsu with her jump. 

She immune to yomi numa and gaara sand tsunami with her magic jump as
Well.  I got you  Mei the jumping queen


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## Veracity (Aug 15, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> You know tsunade most powerful technique is her healing right
> So not the same thing. Ok I give up kimi can be killed by a kunai . Jugo is 100 times more durable. However it's silly to think Mei can just jump over his SnM why didn't itachi do that against a baby version of the technique ? fact is whether SnM lands or not kimi would have changed the land scape to his advantage makes it alot easer for him. I guess Mei can just jump over every attack now
> Mei can avoid kakuzu elemental attacks by jumping Mei can avoid daikodan from kisame by jumping
> Mei avoids 1000 sharks by jumping. Guess she immune to most AoE jutsu with her jump.
> ...



Lol no! Prove your shit. Don't ignore my entire post.

And that's debatable. It could be between her brute strength and Miotic Regen.

It's silly to think a part 1 enemy that was held of by 2 genius could defeat the freaking Mizukage. That's fucking funny.

It's not completely out of the question that Mizukage could complete a simple jump. Especially considering people have already provided scans of such. Why didn't Itachi? Well why didn't Ay v2 blitz Sasuke from the start? Kishi didn't want him too that's why. 

Why can't Mei just stand on a tree with acid mist around her? Kimmi really count do anything besides melt himself. It's not like one would expect to get melted in mist.


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## Icegaze (Aug 15, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> Lol no! Prove your shit. Don't ignore my entire post.
> 
> And that's debatable. It could be between her brute strength and Miotic Regen.
> 
> ...



Like I said she got her Kage jump 
Let me ask you if kisame fired daikodan can she jump over it ? 
if jiraiya used yomi numa can she jump over it ?
If sasori used iron world order can she jump over it ?

Your perception is simple and heavily flawed . Kimi faced genin who where clearly above genin level , however you forget that and say he faced genin therefore kimi is plastic slow and any one ranked above wins . If Mei can jump over his so so much more AoE SnM why can't kimi just jump
Over her acid mist or avoid her lava?

Your entire post deserves to be ignored cuz u can't prove anything other than you are biased . 
Her magic jump allows her to stay in the air and use her super fast melting acid mist to melt a forest of bones sure thing buddy. Good thing she got her you can't kill me
Jump which still doesn't prove it's 200m+


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## Veracity (Aug 15, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> Like I said she got her Kage jump
> Let me ask you if kisame fired daikodan can she jump over it ?
> if jiraiya used yomi numa can she jump over it ?
> If sasori used iron world order can she jump over it ?
> ...



I'm the bad poster here? You had the nerve to bring up many incorrect posts, then when I prove you wrong , you completely ignore my rebuttal. That's nice . Maybe you should prove yourself instead of sharing the same shit.

And no, you think it's silly that Mei can use a simple FUCKING JUMP, so I think it's silly that a Kage would lose too Kimmi. Point blank period.

If she can melt Sussano, then she can melt his plastic bones. 

Kimmis a close range fighter. Mei is not. If she puts acid around herself, what can he do? If she Suitons him a mile away, what can he do? If she follows up her Suiton with lava, what can he do? 

 And glad we came to a understandable conclusion that Mei wins with her super jump.


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## Icegaze (Aug 15, 2013)

Yh Kage level jump Mei the untouchable and yes you are the bad poster
Nothin you have mentioned can be proven or taken as fact . 
So yh ill argue this with anyone else, they are bound to do better than suggest super jump saves her
If Mei uses lava kimi won't be coming close , so acid mist round herself isn't doing much for her
Anyway character perception , kimi looses to her Kage jump the same way gaara dad jumps over all attacks 

Kages got jumping abilities don't they  as soon as a Jounin get promoted to Kage he takes the jumping mushroom and therefore can't be hit with anything . It's good to be a Kage . 

Mei destroys kisame seeing that she can jump over all his attacks and he is a part 2 character so of course kimi can't compete he fought genin I tell u. Chouji without BM beats him and so do the trees drawn in part 2


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## Zuhaitz (Aug 15, 2013)

Senkou said:


> I don't understand the hidden mist argument.
> *
> Kimimaro is also from the hidden mist*,



Scans? Proofs?

The thread is easy. Kimimaro had trouble with 11 years old Gaara. Mei is keeping up with 16 years old Gaara.
16 years old Gaara >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 11 years old Gaara.

And the same way, Mei >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kimimaro


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## Veracity (Aug 15, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> Yh Kage level jump Mei the untouchable and yes you are the bad poster
> Nothin you have mentioned can be proven or taken as fact .
> So yh ill argue this with anyone else, they are bound to do better than suggest super jump saves her
> If Mei uses lava kimi won't be coming close , so acid mist round herself isn't doing much for her
> ...



What's the point of replying to this? You just nag and complain like a lil bitch because Mei can utilize a simple jump.

Your basically saying, whoever doesn't have flight,intangibility,regen, or Sussano will die by Kimmi. So Ay-Kakashi-Gai-and Hashirama all die by the bone of Kimi? That's cool.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Aug 15, 2013)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> Well now I have to do it!
> 
> Well, ok. For starters, I don't believe Mei would engage on close range because being as I am of the belief that Kimimaro is a real threat, and my belief that high level ninjas can detect the level of an opponent from killing intent and chakra alone, she won't take such a risk. I see her opening with a nice blob of Yoton, which Kimimaro will dodge. He can retaliate with Teshi Sendan, which she can dodge and then intercept with more Yoton on the second round, although he will have taken the opportunity to move closer. She can then use Yoton: Yokai to flood the area with lava, forcing him to activate the Juin and use Shunshin to evade. However, it will give him the opportunity to close on her while he prepares Karamatsu no Mai and Tessenka no Mai: Tsuru. However, she can intercept with Suiton: Suiryuudan to send him away.
> 
> ...



I like this.


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## Icegaze (Aug 15, 2013)

I agree with pirates on wheels last post the rest is BS I won't entertain
The same things that can be used to avoid yumi numa can be used to avoid SnM
Kimi jutsu doesn't just loose it's effect cuz he is fighting a Kage 
It would b like saying hashirama can tank jinton simply because he is above onoki level 

Also if ninja could jump over 200m high why was deidara only hovering 10m above sasuke 
Saying he was out of sasuke reach? Why didn't sasuke jump ? Or does he have to be a Kage to jump 200m high 

The bones pop from below the opponent at random jumping Is the dumbest way to avoid the attack especially because ninja can't jump 200m high 

May I ask If SnM was jiraiya jutsu could Mei jump over it ? 
Don't even scale the technique , same level but used by jiraiya would Mei jump it ? 
Because the issue people are having Is Mei must b a Kage so she has to have a counter to everything kimi has

Kakashi isn't a Kage does that mean he can't kamui troll Mei ?


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## Zuhaitz (Aug 15, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> I agree with pirates on wheels last post the rest is BS I won't entertain
> The same things that can be used to avoid yumi numa can be used to avoid SnM
> Kimi jutsu doesn't just loose it's effect cuz he is fighting a Kage
> It would b like saying hashirama can tank jinton simply because he is above onoki level
> ...



I don't personally know what It takes. I know that Mei has do it 



Icegaze said:


> The bones pop from below the opponent at random jumping Is the dumbest way to avoid the attack especially because ninja can't jump 200m high



Mei can. And the attacks AoE isn't 200 meters 



Icegaze said:


> May I ask If SnM was jiraiya jutsu could Mei jump over it ?
> Don't even scale the technique , same level but used by jiraiya would Mei jump it ?
> Because the issue people are having Is Mei must b a Kage so she has to have a counter to everything kimi has
> 
> Kakashi isn't a Kage does that mean he can't kamui troll Mei ?





No, you are trying to defend yourself saying that people uses Mei's rank as an excuse.
Mei can dodge it because she has shown to be able to do it.

If you want to know why Mei wins, why don't you try to put Kimimaro in Mei's position in the war, that way you may be able to grasp the difference in their levels.


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## Icegaze (Aug 15, 2013)

Zuhaitz said:


> I don't personally know what It takes. I know that Mei has do it
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Put Mei in kimimaro situation I.e buried 200m deep and you will get a grasp of their level
I can do that to you know . Fact is Mei does instantly if she is Buried . She also has no feats to suggest she can avoid a tsunami 
She can block it but gaara overwhelming her counter attack isn't hard to foresee . look at the landscape they were fighting in 

Wait when did  Mei show she can jump over a 200m high forest ?? That panel doesn't show that at all

The bones even exceed 200m since gaara said he was going to bury kimi 200m deep 
You can't say he didn't succeed because we don't know if gaara did bury him that deep
You say he didn't I said he did prove me wrong 
You can't though 

you are using Mei rank to say kimi attacks would come off as dull and slow 
Because fact is you wouldn't say Mei jumps over birth of trees even the one madara used 
The scale of that technique was comparable kimi SnM

Covering an entire forest in 1 move isn't a feat to just ignore or say Mei can jump over it.  Not saying she can't do anything against it but she sure as hell can't jump over It and land out of the jutsu range seeing that all kimi need to to increase the range is grow
More bones.


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## Zuhaitz (Aug 15, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> Put Mei in kimimaro situation


She one shoots KN0
She one shoot post operated Lee
She one shoots 11 years old Gaara.




Icegaze said:


> Wait when did  Mei show she can jump over a 200m high forest ?? That panel doesn't show that at all



Are Kimimaro's bones 200 meters height or wide 



Icegaze said:


> The bones even exceed 200m since gaara said he was going to bury kimi 200m deep


Show all the 200 meters bones or concede.



Icegaze said:


> you are using Mei rank to say kimi attacks would come off as dull and slow
> Because fact is you wouldn't say Mei jumps over birth of trees even the one madara used
> The scale of that technique was comparable kimi SnM



Show me where I have said that or STFU 



Icegaze said:


> Covering an entire forest in 1 move isn't a feat to just ignore or say Mei can jump over it.  Not saying she can't do anything against it but she sure as hell can't jump over It and land out of the jutsu range seeing that all kimi need to to increase the range is grow
> More bones.



Gaara didn't cover a forest.

Kimimaro's bones aren't 200 meters height, he could have climb and do 10 meters height bones 

Keep wanong and lying, show all the people your true colours.


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## Icegaze (Aug 15, 2013)

Zuhaitz said:


> She one shoots KN0
> She one shoot post operated Lee
> She one shoots 11 years old Gaara.
> 
> ...



Read the bloody chapter and stop Asking for posts. 

first panel gaara says: 
this panel

you need someone to hold your hand while reading the panels if you think these bones are 10m high or are so low that mei can jump over them. take a good look at the range of the jutsu. 

this panel

Now again gaara said you would be, we have no way of knowing if kimi didnt sink the 200 m or if he didnt just sink to 100m or 1/2 m regardless look at the height of the bones and tell me honestly that they are as easy to jump over like you suggest 


What you obviously fail to realise about kimi SnM technique is that it isn't a question of speed of the jutsu but rather the range. He can over the battlefield with it. Now
It makes sense to most to attack the bones coming your way however what about the ones growing under your feet?? Now you could jump but how are u sure where to land ?

Also unless the bones are destroyed kimi using that techniques is the equivalent of fighting gaara in the desert or kisame in water. Every bone tha just grew
Is a weapon for kimi. So no am not saying Mei gets impaled like some rookie however 
Kimi tips the scales by making the battlefield is home ground

prove Mei jump is anything close to 100m  go on ill wait. You ask for things yet you provide nothing to defend your claims. That panel shows her up in the air we have no idea how she got there or if she jumped. Also we have no idea nor was it said that she was over 200m in the air. So your arguments are getting dumber and dumber  

Again not saying kimimaro wins, however the fact that you think his best technique can just be jumped over is silly. Can itachi just jump over his technique? can roushi just jump over his technique? Both ninja are above kimimaro level yet nothign suggests they can just jump over kimi technique like that. Why would you even suggest such. Its the fact that you do that lets me knwo you are biased 

once more show me any speed feats from lava that suggest kimi cant dodge it. Go on ill wait.  sasuke stood there and took it not because he coudlnt dodge it. 
unless you think mei lava is faster than V1 Ei which again you have no way of proving. 

honestly you cant say you arent using portrayal just admit it that much. Because you have yet to show anything suggesting mei lava can hit kimi. Suiton hitting kimi isnt an issue, because it wont harm him. So you are banking mei win on acid mist which again has no noteable speed feat. 

And you mean to tell me you arent using perception and character ranking?? because you certainly arent using feats.  Surviving off panel against 5 madara's is what it is *OFF PANEL *. Anything could have happened. *ON PANEL THOUGH, HER FIRST PANEL IN THAT BATTLE SHE WAS GETTING SAVED. So lets not use that as a feat. Again off panel feat kimi survived after FRS was used so if you use 1 you have to use the other *


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## Zuhaitz (Aug 15, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> Read the bloody chapter and stop Asking for posts



Read it yourself. Also I'll stop asking for post when you stop lying about what other users have said. 



Icegaze said:


> What you obviously fail to realise about kimi SnM technique is that it isn't a question of speed of the jutsu but rather the range. He can over the battlefield with it. Now
> It makes sense to most to attack the bones coming your way however what about the ones growing under your feet?? Now you could jump but how are u sure where to land ?



The bones start growing from Kimimaro's position and keep growing towards the enemy's direction.
So his enemy, al long as they can see where Kimimaro is, can see the attack slowly moving towards him/her and dodge it if he/she has the speed and the ability to do it. Mei has it.



Icegaze said:


> Also unless the bones are destroyed kimi using that techniques is the equivalent of fighting gaara in the desert or kisame in water. Every bone tha just grew
> Is a weapon for kimi. So no am not saying Mei gets impaled like some rookie however
> Kimi tips the scales by making the battlefield is home ground



Mei can destroy the bones with the lava


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## Icegaze (Aug 15, 2013)

prove that she can, what suggests she can melt it with her lava. So can mei melt birth of trees?? because birth of tree AoE like i have been saying isnt much bigger or even bigger. Show panels that suggest it is. Bones will keep growing in her direction, like you said. Growing i.e from the floor, so its not some projectile attack coming her way. They are growing from the bloody floor she is standing on. So melting the ones in front of her dont stop the ones about to grow under her feet. 

again using an appalling representation of the technique used by kabuto would be like me saying, karin survived enton with her jacket therefore anyone wearing clothes can tank amaterasu. Thats the equivalent of your argument you know this right

please read the DB on SnM it isnt an attack that moves towards you, the bones grow from the ground to slaughter the enemy in front of them. And like i have been sayign jumping over the technique doesnt defeat the technique and melting the bones directly in front of her doesnt stop the ones which will eventually grow under her feet.  

*Again i did agree with pirates on wheels that  kimi looses 6.5/10 what i dont agree with is his technique and skill being underestimate simply because he faced genin when he was dying. Btw 1 of those genins is the best counter to kimimaro. Unless you think the likes of hidan who depend on CQC could beat gaara at the time when he fought kimi. You all do know that gaara rapes hidan right. Sand skin prevents being scratched. Sand prevents hidan coming close. 

hidan has no feats to suggest he bullies gaara yet zuhaitz will disagree simply because of hidan standing despite hidan not being able to do jack shit against gaara then. 

yet hidan is considered many levels above gaara at that point, so people no it isnt all about character portrayals. If you are well suited to fight someone you can beat them its that simple *

too many examples of this can be given, sasori despite being Ei level can be trolled by Ei. Onoki despite being on a slightly higher level than kakuzu can end him in 1 move. irrespective of his 5 hearts. 

so people stop using the he couldnt beat genin thing, 1 of them was exceedingly well suited to fight him. Despite that kimi still didnt take gaara seriously till half way through the fight by then his was coughing out blood due to his illness


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## Stermor (Aug 15, 2013)

anyone actually has a feat of kimimaro even beeing capable of reacting to any of mei's attacks?? 

mei should just shunsin to kimi stick a kunai in his eye.. and shunsin out before kimimaro can react.. kimimaro is not fast enough to hurt any elite jounin or kage lvl opponent.. 

he might be able to survive some but he is pretty much a target dummy for them..


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## Icegaze (Aug 15, 2013)

Stermor said:


> anyone actually has a feat of kimimaro even beeing capable of reacting to any of mei's attacks??
> 
> mei should just shunsin to kimi stick a kunai in his eye.. and shunsin out before kimimaro can react.. kimimaro is not fast enough to hurt any elite jounin or kage lvl opponent..
> 
> he might be able to survive some but he is pretty much a target dummy for them..



Show a feat of Mei being able to do that 
what speed feat does Mei have 
Oh her portrayal Kage level speed which allows her to be faster than anyone ranked below her 

Show speed feats from lava or Mei before suggesting none sense 

Again no one would argue kimi tanking Mei lava like he would a kunai 

I don't think he can walk out of such , however please show me feats suggesting Mei can lol blitz kimi

Gaara wasn't genin level and was well suited to fight kimi very well suited I might add. 

Your underestimating kimi on the premise that he didn't lol blitz gaara the genin , not genin level is silly 

Eg: Hidan is terrifying and is only a level below Ei yet against Ei Hidan would look like part 1 Sakura 

having difficulties or loosing terribly to someone well suited to fight you doesn't suddenly make you weak

*Edit 1: *@everyone underestimating SnM allow me to take my time to explain exactly why i think this technique deserves its merit. I am not saying kimimaro wins, please remember this as you read on. 

SnM can be used in 2 ways,
1)  as a frontal attack with the bones progressively growing and coming your way as kabuto used
2) bones sprouting directly beneath you in order to hopefully impale you which kimimaro used twice, once against the samurai and once against gaara and lee

Now kabuto decided to use it as a projectile like attack to keep itachi focused on what was infront of him, while kabuto blocked itachi back exit with kidomaru webs.  The truth is if kabuto decided to use the version 2 option, nothing stops itachi from bobbing and weaving and moving towards kabuto. Why because sharingan can see through the ground, so itachi will clearly see the bones before they sprout and simply keep moving towards kabuto. However the first version prevents itachi from simply bobbing and weaving away from the technique. itachi had to deal with the technique i.e stop the attack. The same way naruto could rasengan birth of trees, yet flower tree world a similar technique cant be rasengan'd so easily because the technique was shown to start growing directly beneath the enemy. 

And with this i will explain the ways to dodge and then ways to defeat the technique, because i believe all techniques can be defeated. 

*ways to dodge version 2: *
 ps: when i say version i just mean they can be used in different ways, i am not saying 1 is stronger than the other so dont blow my head off

1) Having a dojutsu that allows you to see through the ground, bobbing and weaving when you know where the bones are makes it easier . its the same reason sasuke could go about without stepping on a mine. however this method isnt fool proof 
2) levitation allows you to dodge version 2 of this technique with relative ease. 
3) speed, being able to move quicker than the bones can sprout is a good away to dodge the technique 

note: none of those methods stop kimi from merging with the bones and owning the battlefield so dodging isnt really the best option 

*Ways to dodge version 1: *

1) to keep moving backwards. 
2) levitation 

again even in version 1 kimi can still own the battlefield and nothing stops him from merging with the bones. 

please note all what i suggest so far doesnt defeat the technique. 

Now version 1 is alot easier to attack with things such as lava, or any high level technique i already agree with that. However version 2 of this technique isnt 
so easy to counter with lava, because that requires mei to first jump then attack the bones that were are her previous location. What happens when she lands?? 

*So no before anyone says i overhype kimi, i really dont and have never even suggested that he is even low kage level. However i dont think his best technique is such a walk over*. 

Also with the  DB description and feats kimi can grow 1000's of bones, we have all seen the AoE of Mei lava, i dont see her melting a 1000 bones in 1 lava shot. Also kimi can just keep growing bones forcing Mei to keep melting them.  if the battle turns into 1 of attrition then obviously Mei would win with some difficulty if she does at all  and thats all i have been saying.


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## Stermor (Aug 15, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> Show a feat of Mei being able to do that
> what speed feat does Mei have
> Oh her portrayal Kage level speed which allows her to be faster than anyone ranked below her
> 
> Show speed feats from lava or Mei before suggesting none sense



mei stopped madara's katon.. which is her kage lvl speed.. pretty much her reaction/fighting madara is plenty to show she has speed..  remember based on calcs madara is 10 times as fast as kimimaro... 

kimimaro's best speed feat is beeing slower then pre skip lee.. which is leaques below any elite jounin or kage... by a huge margin!!!!!!! 

anyway DON"T put the sound 5 against elite jounin/kages!!!!!!


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## Icegaze (Aug 15, 2013)

Stermor said:


> mei stopped madara's katon.. which is her kage lvl speed.. pretty much her reaction/fighting madara is plenty to show she has speed..  remember based on calcs madara is 10 times as fast as kimimaro...
> 
> kimimaro's best speed feat is beeing slower then pre skip lee.. which is leaques below any elite jounin or kage... by a huge margin!!!!!!!
> 
> anyway DON"T put the sound 5 against elite jounin/kages!!!!!!



sorry what based on calculations?? ...am in the crazy part of NF jesus you calculate stuff. What does that even mean. Wow!!! i feel bad now, thought i was a bit much with this stuff but you clearly have shown me it gets worse. *Sorry but those calcs kishi didnt consent with them and therefore they are nonesense.   he calculates stuff in a manga!!! ....woooooooow!!!*

yes mei stopped madara katon, with a ninjutsu what does that have to do with her footspeed?? then again i am asking someone who uses calcs when discussing naruto. So am not sure i want to go there. calcs OMG!!! do people do that...like am not even being rude, WTF does that even mean?? 

Thats the next level of weird, please stop that!!!....


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## SubtleObscurantist (Aug 15, 2013)

Yeah, OBD calcs are never, ever to be taken seriously. They barely use perspective, they generally miss multiple variables, and at the end of day, they just use pretty egregious estimations.


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## Stermor (Aug 15, 2013)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> Yeah, OBD calcs are never, ever to be taken seriously. They barely use perspective, they generally miss multiple variables, and at the end of day, they just use pretty egregious estimations.



true but it should show there is quite a bit(a huge bit) of difference between them.. which was the point..


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## Icegaze (Aug 15, 2013)

Well i dont know anything about them but its simply weird to talk about calculations when doing fictional battles so please lets not use such as Subtle said they seem to be lacking perspective. And are frankly very very silly. 

common people!!! we have to be better than this.


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## IchLiebe (Aug 15, 2013)

I'm just going to say some common sense.

Lava melts bones with no problem. 

Then we have the manga where Susanoo is better than bones and was melted by lava from Mei.

Mei wins.


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## Icegaze (Aug 15, 2013)

ichi no one was in doubt lava melts his bones
how does that stop SnM though. you do realize SnM has a much larger AoE right

common sense kimimaro never got sealed despite KCM naruto showing up. We have no idea how kimi survived FRS but he did 
kimi also didnt see naruto and say i am clearly outclassed. He merely said the outcome would be different. 

despite mifune and naruto being present on the field + lots of fodder samurai  kimimaro didnt get sealed. Or lol trolled so why do people think mei can walk over kimi


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## Veracity (Aug 15, 2013)

Yeah. Because Meis Lava is definitely to slow. Although it managed to intercept Kage Summit Sasuke before he could leave the door, and that was his prime intention can move

It was also fast enough to catch Sasuke off-guard to the point where he was forced to use Susassno for protection can move

Although not as deadly as her acid, her lava severely weakened Sasukes Sussano(don't be the dumbass that compares kimis bones to arguably the strongest defense in the manga) and was fast enough to pressure Kage Summit Sasuke(no doubt faster then Kimi)

She was able to intercept Madara's Katon with an equally as powerful Suiton. Mind you, it took SEVERAL sution users just to counter one of Madara Katons can move
Then follow up her Suiton with an equally as strong Suiton that sent Sussano flying like a ragdoll can move


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## Kai (Aug 15, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> common sense kimimaro never got sealed despite KCM naruto showing up. We have no idea how kimi survived FRS but he did
> kimi also didnt see naruto and say i am clearly outclassed. He merely said the outcome would be different.


Neither did Chiyo, so we should use KCM Naruto and FRS accordingly to hype her level of power and durability?

Better yet, how do you know Chiyo did not take care of those factors for Kimimaro? They were standing right beside each other when Edo Tensei was released. It is examples like these that make me think fans of Kimi love to elevate his stature for his potential and what he could have been rather than what his portrayal was really like in the manga.

In Kimimaro's case, we have a discrepancy with his portrayal of _potential_ vs. his portrayal in the manga.

Kimimaro in the war has no feats to be claimed except clashing with samurai.


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## Icegaze (Aug 15, 2013)

Kai said:


> Neither did Chiyo, so we should use KCM Naruto and FRS accordingly to hype her level of power and durability?
> 
> Better yet, how do you know Chiyo did not take care of those factors for Kimimaro? They were standing right beside each other when Edo Tensei was released. It is examples like these that make me think fans of Kimi love to elevate his stature for his potential and what he could have been rather than what his portrayal was really like in the manga.
> 
> ...



Never claimed kimi tanked it but either way I only brought that up because someone brought up an off panel feat from Mei . Then i brought it up again because of lacklustre arguments being presented 

Like Mei lava GG off the bat and posts like that . I for one know kimi looses this more times than not 

Honestly if his status was so low I won't b the only one thinking he could win

Part 1 Sakura vs Mei that thread gets locked because Sakura gets trolls that's not the case here and that's what I am emphazising 

Mei survived 5 madara therefore she tabs kimi with a kunai and kills him is those BS argument that has me  myself

Her first panel vs 5 madara she is getting saved by gaara so let's not hype her either we have no idea if she wasn't being saved every second 

Same way we have no idea if chiyo didn't save kimi ass against FRS though
Common sense would tell u she couldn't have seeing  that she had no puppets and was only controlling fodders

My point if u use 1 off panel feat then you have to use the other


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## Axiom (Aug 15, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> I agree with pirates on wheels last post the rest is BS I won't entertain
> The same things that can be used to avoid yumi numa can be used to avoid SnM
> Kimi jutsu doesn't just loose it's effect cuz he is fighting a Kage
> It would b like saying hashirama can tank jinton simply because he is above onoki level
> ...



The difference between Yomi Numa and SnM is that Yomi Numa is Jiraiya makes one hand seal, and then a deep ass swamp appears under your feet.  There's no margin of error.  You react to the one hand seal, or you better hope that you have a way of getting out.

SnM is Kimi doing whatever and then bones sprout out of the ground, first from a point around him and then they spread out from that point sporadically.  There is margin for error and plenty of time to react.  For example...

Jiraiya uses Yomi Numa on Gaara.  Gaara doesn't realize what's going on, and then he's stuck in the swamp and at Jiraiya's mercy.  Too bad, so sad

Kimimaro uses SnM against Gaara.  I refer you to canon.

The threat SnM poses is when Kimi sprouts out from the bones afterwards and tries to blindside you, which is effective, but in this case, what may happen is that Mei sees the bones coming, uses a Yoton jutsu to clear out a space for herself, and then she just stays in that spot while waiting for the jutsu to blow over.  This would inadvertently protect her from the blindside attacks because Kimi would have to reach further in order to hit her.  She packs some pretty serious AoE, too, so that could make a rather large gap in the bone forest.  Afterwards, she can just continue to melt through it, or spread her acid mist, or try to hunt for Kimi, or do w/e the hell she wants.


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## Icegaze (Aug 15, 2013)

Axiom said:


> The difference between Yomi Numa and SnM is that Yomi Numa is Jiraiya makes one hand seal, and then a deep ass swamp appears under your feet.  There's no margin of error.  You react to the one hand seal, or you better hope that you have a way of getting out.
> 
> SnM is Kimi doing whatever and then bones sprout out of the ground, first from a point around him and then they spread out from that point sporadically.  There is margin for error and plenty of time to react.  For example...
> 
> ...



Kimi does 1 seal for bone forest and the bones don't have to converge 
Towards  the target and don't necessarily move towards the enemy from kimi location 

The bones grow out at random in an attempt to make it hard to predict. Granted mei lava technique has more AoE than I gve it credit for. However using lava to melt the bones in front of her doesn't stop the bones form growing under her feat since you can at least agree they grow from kimi location though i don't think that has to happen all the time 

So Mei would eventually have to jump back and keep spamming lava to stop the technique and like I said if its a battle of attrition then Mei didn't win with ease .


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## Axiom (Aug 15, 2013)

Regardless of the exact workings of SnM, the fact of the matter is that a tired out SRA Gaara was still able to put himself and Lee on a sand cloud before being impaled.  If they could do that, I believe Mei could cast a Yoton in time.  After that she has a safe zone from which bones will no longer sprout.  She wouldn't be entirely out of the woods because Kimi would still be hard to hit, but if she can make herself a clearing using her Yoton that prevents bones from sprouting out from the area on which she stands, her chances are pretty good.  If it moves to attrition afterwards, well, Kimi isn't specified to be healthy in this situation, and Mei was involved in the Madara fight for hours on end.  She may not have been using chakra intensive jutsu for the entire time, but I don't see why she would be using any more here than she did there.


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## IchLiebe (Aug 15, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> ichi no one was in doubt lava melts his bones
> how does that stop SnM though. you do realize SnM has a much larger AoE right



AoE doesn't matter here. I'll explain later on.



> common sense kimimaro never got sealed despite KCM naruto showing up. We have no idea how kimi survived FRS but he did
> kimi also didnt see naruto and say i am clearly outclassed. He merely said the outcome would be different.



How did an edo tensei live through FRS? Please don't make me go into this.



> despite mifune and naruto being present on the field + lots of fodder samurai  kimimaro didnt get sealed. Or lol trolled so why do people think mei can walk over kimi



And? Mifune and Naruto can't seal. You gotta blame fodders for not sealing. 

Kimmi is in character and has no knowledge. He starts off with taijutsu because that's how he fights. The Mei uses lava because it's always one of, if not her first jutsu. Then it's done. Kimmi won't be able to get pushed to bone forest because he dies fairly quick.



Icegaze said:


> Kimi does 1 seal for bone forest and the bones don't have to converge
> Towards  the target and don't necessarily move towards the enemy from kimi location
> 
> The bones grow out at random in an attempt to make it hard to predict. Granted mei lava technique has more AoE than I gve it credit for. However using lava to melt the bones in front of her doesn't stop the bones form growing under her feat since you can at least agree they grow from kimi location though i don't think that has to happen all the time



Also it does come from him. He has shown that every bone jutsu comes right from his bones so it's only logical that bone forest does too.


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## Icegaze (Aug 15, 2013)

Yes ichi if kimi got hit by FRS and didn't tank it he would have been sealed. Notice how quickly the sealing squad tried to seal the 3rd 
I think he dodged it though . Personally 

The panel below shows SnM doesn't originate from the user . If it did the bones would have never gotten to the uchiha considering Amaterasu was in between them and kabuto . 
Link removed

So kimi can have those bones start growing from Mei feet forcing her to jump making it difficult for her

Kimi is analytic he evaluates from the get go how a person fights and only fights on counter attack 

So no he won't try to come close he will watch what Mei does and once he sees lava he isn't going to come close cuz that's just silly for him to do so

Ps: axiom I agree with your last post


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## IchLiebe (Aug 15, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> Yes ichi if kimi got hit by FRS and didn't tank it he would have been sealed. Notice how quickly the sealing squad tried to seal the 3rd
> I think he dodged it though . Personally



So why are you saying he tanked it?



> The panel below shows SnM doesn't originate from the user . If it did the bones would have never gotten to the uchiha considering Amaterasu was in between them and kabuto .
> Link removed
> 
> So kimi can have those bones start growing from Mei feet forcing her to jump making it difficult for her



1. I'm guessing as I can't see the page.
2. The bone came from Kimmi's hands touching the ground and extended that way.
3. Kimmimaro has never shown to start with anything other than taijutsu.



> Kimi is analytic he evaluates from the get go how a person fights and only fights on counter attack
> 
> So no he won't try to come close he will watch what Mei does and once he sees lava he isn't going to come close cuz that's just silly for him to do so



He evaluates with taijutsu. Against Naruto he did taijutsu. Against Lee he did taijutsu. Against Gaara he did taijutsu. Against samurai he did taijutsu. Against Mei, he's doing taijutsu.


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## Icegaze (Aug 15, 2013)

Read chapter 585 page 6 you'll see what I mean. The bones don't originate from kimi at all
I didn't suggest he tanked it I said I could suggest such if people being up Mei off panel feat 

Against gaara he used his bone fingers because he knew getting close would be dangerous and sand doesn't slightly compare with lava. Notice he waited for all 3 genin to attack him 

Don't be so quick to forget . ichi !!! So no kimi won't run at mei and get killed from the get go


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## IchLiebe (Aug 15, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> Read chapter 585 page 6 you'll see what I mean. The bones don't originate from kimi at all
> I didn't suggest he tanked it I said I could suggest such if people being up Mei off panel feat



His hands were on the ground. We can only say the bones came from there as we have NEVER seen him create bones any other way.



> Against gaara he used his bone fingers because he knew getting close would be dangerous and sand doesn't slightly compare with lava. Notice he waited for all 3 genin to attack him



He saw Gaara using sand before the fight, he won't see anything about Mei till he attacks. He used the bullets to test the sand and then went right for taijutsu. He didn't use bone forest till it was his last resort, so why would he here?



> Don't be so quick to forget . ichi !!! So no kimi won't run at mei and get killed from the get go



It's IchLiebe, Ich, or liebe. Don't say ichi, it sounds like something a fangirl would say. 

He will run at her and get killed. He's a ninja who uses taijutsu as his main fighting style. To say he will go ooc and fight like he has knowledge when he's IC and has no knowledge is ridiculous.


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## Icegaze (Aug 15, 2013)

@ Ichi!!! Who said I wasn't a fan girl 

In know his hands were on the ground , never said they weren't however did you notice a bone sprouting directly in front of kimi and the moving towards the brothers ?? No! The bones started growing in between the brothers and Amaterasu showing kimi can control the origin of the growth 

Kimi in base never went taijtusu against gaara . He tried finger  bullet that failed and then gaara buried him
In cs2 he had seen enough of the sand to know he could tank it hence why he engaged in CQC

Like I said against all 3 genin kimi waited for their attack, he didn't initially attack the genin he waited for their attack and played on the counter

So no i don't think kimi would see Mei and run towards her like a fool .  however Mei  would see kimi and immediately attempt ninjutsu at which point kimi would have an idea of what fighting style she prefers and would decide if it's safe to come close based on what attack Mei used from the start 

ok, I'll call you ich !! That ok ?


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## IchLiebe (Aug 15, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> @ Ichi!!! Who said I wasn't a fan girl



I know I'm smart, handsome, and by all means SEXY but no.



> In know his hands were on the ground , never said they weren't however did you notice a bone sprouting directly in front of kimi and the moving towards the brothers ?? No! The bones started growing in between the brothers and Amaterasu showing kimi can control the origin of the growth



Like how he can control the size and shape of the bones? It's common sense.



> Kimi in base never went taijtusu against gaara . He tried offer bullet that failed and then gaara buried him
> In cs2 he had seen enough of the sand to know he could tank it hence why he engaged in CQC



Bullets failed and what did he do? Taijutsu. Not bone forest. 

Here is what's going to happen.

Kimmi runs in and dies.
Kimmi stands there. Mei uses lava and hits him. He ain't crossing 35m before she his him.
Kimmi stands there and the fight goes on till he gets up close and then gets acid mist blown in his face and dies.



> Like I said against all 3 genin kimi waited for their attack, he didn't initially attack the genin he waited for their attack and played on the counter



Then he'll die.



> So no i don't think kimi would see Mei and run towards her like a fool . He will, howeve Mei would see kimi and immediately attempt ninjutsu at which point kimi would have an idea of what fighting style she prefers and would decide if it's same to come close based on what attack Mei used from the start



He'll come close long before he does bone forest.



> ok, I'll call you ich !! That ok ?



I guess.


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## Ashi (Aug 15, 2013)

Mei wins due to superior everything

Nothing kimmimaro has can stand up to her lava or corrosive mist or her high level water jutsu


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## wooly Eullerex (Aug 15, 2013)

Nin vs Tai --this is quite the even match of two low kage levels but...

while Kimmi has the better kkg overall imo; mei has the better stamina & isn't reliant on CS.
Kimi is faster & stronger w/ more range & speed, but Mei jutsu is so potent, it tips the scale in her favor more times than not... In the end she has the tactical advantage.

Mei should be favored cuz of acid mist in particular.
 Mei will be able to burn away enough bone projections to survive while keeping kimi at bay. kimi will back-up after witnessing lava. He may then have to loltank some suitons & from sickness may already be going into CS1, but the mist will eventually kill him by unawares, inhalation damage. 
He may even be forced to search after her as she deliberately falls back into cover.

Mei, 7/10 times, after a hard-stressing but masterful of ninjutsu.
 and yes, Icegaze, kimi w/ full knowledge & bloodlusted~starting in CS2 could kill Mei handily, i'd agree


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## Icegaze (Aug 16, 2013)

Wait mist can kill you if you inhale it since when 
That's a new acid mist feat . 

@ ich I already explained why he chose CQC against gaara and I already explained that he fights on counter

So no he won't be trying to make a 35m dash at Mei
He will wait for her to attack then he will counter once he sees lava he will never come close cuz it's stupid

Also why are you implying Mei would wait for him go attack ?
He attacks on counter because he knows it dangerous to run at someone without knowing what they can do 

So once again no after Mei first lava attack SnM comes out 
Same way once kakashi knew wot tobi could do he knew his only hope was kamui. If kimi sees lava he would know that's his only hope 
You can't try to stab someone spitting lava that's a loose situation


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## Zuhaitz (Aug 16, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> Wait mist can kill you if you inhale it since when
> That's a new acid mist feat .



Kimimaro can kill a named character? Since when? That's a new feat for Kimimaro.
Use common sense, if the acid mist can melt Susanoo, if someone breaths it It will also corrode his internal organs, starting with the lungs.



Icegaze said:


> So no he won't be trying to make a 35m dash at Mei
> He will wait for her to attack then he will counter once he sees lava he will never come close cuz it's stupid



Implying that he won't die the moment Mei uses the lava and hits him?



Icegaze said:


> So once again no after Mei first lava attack SnM comes out
> Same way once kakashi knew wot tobi could do he knew his only hope was kamui. If kimi sees lava he would know that's his only hope
> You can't try to stab someone spitting lava that's a loose situation



Mei can walk on the lava, and the lava would instantaneously melt any bone that tries to grown under her feet.


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## Icegaze (Aug 16, 2013)

Zuhaitz said:


> Kimimaro can kill a named character? Since when? That's a new feat for Kimimaro.
> Use common sense, if the acid mist can melt Susanoo, if someone breaths it It will also corrode his internal organs, starting with the lungs.
> 
> 
> ...



How's it common sense that acid mist melts your insides ?? When was that shown ? The technique doesn't have a DB description but I won't call that common sense . 

Mei can walk on lava care to show me this? It's like saying itachi can walk on Amaterasu 
Common !!

Am not implying kimi doesn't die if lava touches him I am clearly stating though that lava has no speed feats to suggest it hits him from 35m away that's ridiculous


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## Zuhaitz (Aug 16, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> How's it common sense that acid mist melts your insides ??


This goes to my sign 



Icegaze said:


> Mei can walk on lava care to show me this? It's like saying itachi can walk on Amaterasu
> Common !!



Does Itachi usually have amaterasu on his mouth before using it?

Mei's lava come from her mouth, she is touching it without any visible injure. I would also call it common sense to her being able to touch the lava with other body part without getting injured.



Icegaze said:


> Am not implying kimi doesn't die if lava touches him I am clearly stating though that lava has no speed feats to suggest it hits him from 35m away that's ridiculous



Is Kimi faster than Madara now?


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## Icegaze (Aug 16, 2013)

Zuhaitz said:


> This goes to my sign
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Kimi doesn't need to be as fast or faster than madara to dodge lava 
It's like saying u need Ei speed to dodge Amaterasu which means SM naruto gets trolled MS sasuke
Which you obviously won't agree with

So why do u need Madara speed to doge lava ?

It can go to your sign but that's an assumption 
Why don't people die from inhaling the steam which comes out from
Mei lava when it melts things ??? 
You sir are a fanfic champion


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## Zuhaitz (Aug 16, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> Kimi doesn't need to be as fast or faster than madara to dodge lava
> It's like saying u need Ei speed to dodge Amaterasu which means SM naruto gets trolled MS sasuke
> Which you obviously won't agree with



Ok, let's go to the minimum. Is Kimimaro as fast as MS Sasuke?
MS Sasuke wasn't fast enough to dodge it a short distance.



Icegaze said:


> It can go to your sign but that's an assumption
> Why don't people die from inhaling the steam which comes out from
> Mei lava when it melts things ???
> You sir are a fanfic champion



What? Are you mixing Mei's 2 Kekkai Genkai?
Mei can use lava, whose steam don't kill anyone.
And she can also use acid mist, futton, another Kekkai Genkai that corrodes whatever It touches and of course, if you happen to inhale it, your insides which are less durable than your outsides, will corrode


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## Icegaze (Aug 16, 2013)

Zuhaitz said:


> Ok, let's go to the minimum. Is Kimimaro as fast as MS Sasuke?
> MS Sasuke wasn't fast enough to dodge it a short distance.
> 
> 
> ...



i already explained Ms sasuke didnt use susnaoo rib cage because he wasnt fast enough to dodge it. Unless you suggesting mei lava is as fast as V1 Ei which suggests she can 1 shot anyone slower than that. Which is simply ridiculous. Sasuke used rib cage because he was surrounded by enemies. Dodging the attack would leave him open, like madara was open to Ei attack after avoiding mei lava. Difference is sasuke could not possibly tank a jinton he wont see coming or any array of attacks the body guards and kages had. 

Would you also say sasuke used rib cage to protect himself against danzo punch because he wasnt fast enough to avoid on his own? common now!!! thats silly. If you suggesting that then danzo is faster than V1 Ei. Which again is funny to even consider 



her acid mist burnt sasuke arm therefore it went through susanoo, why wasnt sasuke inside burnt??? he was breathing there u know. 

 again kishi never suggested her technique could do that read the panels again. kishi never did, if her technique could do that sasuke would be dead. Blame it on plot but the whole story is plot. So thats hardly an excuse for the jutsu performance

looking back on the panels it took mei 2 lava shots to submerge madara *rib cage susanoo* bone forest AoE is much much bigger than that. So assuming she can use 1 lava shot and ride it like kisame does his water wave is silly.


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## Zuhaitz (Aug 16, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> i already explained Ms sasuke didnt use susnaoo rib cage because he wasnt fast enough to dodge it. Unless you suggesting mei lava is as fast as V1 Ei which suggests she can 1 shot anyone slower than that. Which is simply ridiculous. Sasuke used rib cage because he was surrounded by enemies. Dodging the attack would leave him open, like madara was open to Ei attack after avoiding mei lava. Difference is sasuke could not possibly tank a jinton he wont see coming or any array of attacks the body guards and kages had.




Sasuke was slower than V1 Ei. Sasuke's reaction speed was able to keep up with Ei's speed, but his movements aren't comparable to V1 Ei's. And so Mei's lava doesn't need to be as fast as V1 Ei to be able to hit Sasuke. As long as the jutsu is faster than Sasuke himself is enough.

And so, is Kimimaro as fast as MS Sasuke? 



Icegaze said:


> her acid mist burnt sasuke arm therefore it went through susanoo, why wasnt sasuke inside burnt??? he was breathing there u know.
> 
> again kishi never suggested her technique could do that read the panels again. kishi never did, if her technique could do that sasuke would be dead. Blame it on plot but the whole story is plot. So thats hardly an excuse for the jutsu performance



Sasuke burnt his arm because It touched the rib of Susanoo.  



Icegaze said:


> looking back on the panels it took mei 2 lava shots to submerge madara *rib cage susanoo* bone forest AoE is much much bigger than that. So assuming she can use 1 lava shot and ride it like kisame does his water wave is silly.




It took Mei 2 shots to cover an area of dozens of meters with the lava. Not just Madara.


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## Icegaze (Aug 16, 2013)

icegaze doesnt think kimimaro is more durable than madara susanoo but clearly you cant read. 

Mei in 2 shots still didnt cover the entire Area SnM can cover 

is sasuke as fast as EI?? because sasuke was dodging amaterasu...

sasuke using rib cage to block lava isnt a speed feat for lava. Otherwise you would be suggesting danzo is faster than sasuke which he isnt. 

show me his arm touching his susnaoo rib cage. go on...the fact that it burnt sasuke arm shows the mist had gotten into susanoo. So why werent sasuke insides turned to mush

again mist was never implied to do such. never was it even hinted that it could thats NF fanfic mostly yours though


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## Zuhaitz (Aug 16, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> icegaze doesnt think kimimaro is more durable than madara susanoo but clearly you cant read.



Just more durable than the ribs of Madara's Susanoo is already stupid enough 



Icegaze said:


> Mei in 2 shots still didnt cover the entire Area SnM can cover



Really? What's the area of the SnM, give me a number 



Icegaze said:


> is sasuke as fast as EI?? because sasuke was dodging amaterasu...



No.
Now is your turn, is Kimimaro as fast as MS Sasuke? 


Icegaze said:


> sasuke using rib cage to block lava isnt a speed feat for lava. Otherwise you would be suggesting danzo is faster than sasuke which he isnt.



Case by case logic. In Danzou's case Sasuke was clearly able to dodge Danzou but choose to block it with Susanoo. Against Mei he clearly couldn't dodge it and had no other chance but to use the Susanoo to block it. Like It happened when Kakashi kamui'd Sasuke's Susanoo arrow.



Icegaze said:


> show me his arm touching his susnaoo rib cage. go on...the fact that it burnt sasuke arm shows the mist had gotten into susanoo. So why werent sasuke insides turned to mush



Show me Sasuke breathing the mist 
He was burnt by the previous lava, or by the ribs of Susanoo.


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## Icegaze (Aug 16, 2013)

Zuhaitz said:


> Just more durable than the ribs of Madara's Susanoo is already stupid enough
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So now Mei lava is susanoo arrow speed 

you don't hve to be faster than an object to dodge it you know this right 

Gave the Spiderman vs bullet example previously . He dodges bullets doesn't make him as fast as them .

against Mei sasuke didn't dodge because it would leave him open to multiple attacks in his weakend state he couldn't afford the risk 

Kimimaro never showed footspeed on par with sasuke 
Doesn't mean he can't react to the same things sasuke can . 

You 2 penny worth arguments are laaaame!! X vs Y moved this fast 
Z didn't when fighting A therefore Z is slower than X and gets blitz 'd



Show me a panel example of a blitz where the opponent failed up
React


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 16, 2013)

Mei melts him.


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## Zuhaitz (Aug 16, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> So now Mei lava is susanoo arrow speed



No, It's just that you can't understand high school level metaphor 

I was just showing the difference between using an MS because the users choose to and using it because It absolutely necessary. 



Icegaze said:


> against Mei sasuke didn't dodge because it would leave him open to multiple attacks in his weakend state he couldn't afford the risk



No, he did because he didn't have other choice.



Icegaze said:


> Kimimaro never showed footspeed on par with sasuke
> Doesn't mean he can't react to the same things sasuke can .



Kimimaro has Sharingan level reaction speed now?   



Icegaze said:


> Show me a panel example of a blitz where the opponent failed up
> React



I have already done it. Neji was blitzed by the jounins


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## Icegaze (Aug 16, 2013)

While not paying attention to them 
 
kotetsu and Izumo blitz'd Hidan then 
That's how ridiculous your post sounds 

or wait i have another one suigetsu is faster than Ei since he crossed a much further distance and got to sasuke before Ei did. I have another for you jugo is faster than darui he intercepted darui before darui got to sasuke. ....i sound just like you. That exactly how you post. 

*So tell me why those situations are different from what happened with neji. Go on ill wait. Lets hear this one....every poster if interested please watch his reply. 
*
Neji had no reason to believe they would interfere why should they 

The Jounin>>>genin thing was only at the very start of the manga when naruto and sasuke combined effort barely took down zabuza clone  yet a few chapters later sasuke lol rapes 10 Zabuza  clones 

Your argument is appalling !! Jounin blitz neji while not neji wasn't paying attention therefore Jounin are sooo much faster that they can kill said genin without the genin knowing 

GG son


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## IchLiebe (Aug 16, 2013)

The only time we have EVER seen Kimmimaro use bone forest was his absolute last resort when he knew he was going to die. We haven't even seen him use a small scale version of it. It's like saying Gai is going to use 7th gates just because someone fights long range. He's going to run up and keep trying to beat the bitch to death before using his trump card, because that's what a trump card is. Something that you don't use until you absolutely have to.


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## Veracity (Aug 16, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> Kimi doesn't need to be as fast or faster than madara to dodge lava
> It's like saying u need Ei speed to dodge Amaterasu which means SM naruto gets trolled MS sasuke
> Which you obviously won't agree with
> 
> ...



You do need between v1 Ay speed and v2 speed to dodge Amaterasu. It you have to have a fringe defense against it. So SM Naruto doesn't have the necessary speed normally to dodge it, however he has SM sencing which would debatably allow him to dodge. Also, Ay was like 10'feet from Sasuke when the move was fired.

And If the mist can melt his cc2 enhanced skin, then what's the difference with his insides? If anything , they're less durable and would kill him faster.


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## Icegaze (Aug 16, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> You do need between v1 Ay speed and v2 speed to dodge Amaterasu. It you have to have a fringe defense against it. So SM Naruto doesn't have the necessary speed normally to dodge it, however he has SM sencing which would debatably allow him to dodge. Also, Ay was like 10'feet from Sasuke when the move was fired.
> 
> And If the mist can melt his cc2 enhanced skin, then what's the difference with his insides? If anything , they're less durable and would kill him faster.



i agree they should melt his insides faster however kishi didnt portray the jutsu that way and didnt imply that it was some 2 level type attack. i.e dealing external and internal damage. Its acid mist (more basic to be honest since she said reduce the PH) think of acid mist like NaOH mist.

it boils the skin and shoudl burn the insides i agree however this is a manga and because it was used against sasuke it doesnt have said ability therefore we cant just assume it does internal damage. Its like when haku presence made hidden mist cold and they could feel it, no one complained about frozen insides. My example is a slight stretch i admit but still cant make assumptions like that. 

@ich kimimaro used bone forest against *fodder samurai!!!* clearly its just his ninjutsu and his ace technique doesnt mean he has to use it as a last resort. Thats a silly excuse. 

kamui is kakashi trump card yet on thinking tobi was madara he opted straight for using it. So clearly people can use trump cards when they feel depending on the risk. Bone forest carries no risks for kimi. SO he can spam it if he feels. 

Gai used gates just to catch up to kisame. Gai would use gates against anyone who remotely looks difficult and yes gai would most certainly opt for using gates against a long range fighter. Why on earth wont he?? you assume gai is stupid enough to attempt closing the distance when he doesnt need to. 

Do you really think gai would keep trying to jump and kick deidara if deidara was on a bird?? please gai would see that smile and go gates so that he can shoot deidara down. Yet gates is his trump card. Same way kakashi used kamui to shoot deidara down, despite it being his trump card. Same way kimi would use SnM quickly if he was fighting deidara.  

 Ei fighting a long range ninja would keep trying because *he has no other options*

kimi only chose to engage gaara in CQC because he already knew what gaara attacks were like, gaara fights with sand in cs2 he believe justifiably so that he could power through the sand which he did.  

Kimi wont see lava and think yes i can power through this, because he cant!!!

kimi has options so no he wont attempt getting close to Mei the second she uses lava  he is jumping back to prevent his untimely death. Common would you approach lava??

same way if Gai fought mei the second she uses lava he is going to opt for gates. because if it remotely touches him gai dies. 

kakashi againt mei however wont opt for kamui because guess what* he has other options * 

Do you think itachi wont use amaterasu against deidara if deidara put him in the same situation sasuke was in when sasuke fought c2 dragon? itachi would casually opt for that to shoot deidara down. Why would he waste time jumping or throwing kunai when he got opts that dont carry excessive risk to him. Now if he knew he was going to fight after fighting deidara he wont use amaterasu but 1 on 1 situation he is going to use it.


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## joshhookway (Aug 16, 2013)

Mei is a kage.

Kimmi lost to part 1 Gaara.

Mei stomps kimmi with acid mist and suiton.


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## Atlantic Storm (Aug 16, 2013)

What good would Mei's suitons do against Kimimaro apart from providing openings and forcing a distance? They're powerful, but realistically, I sort of doubt they're going to accomplish what tonnes of pressure failed. Kimimaro's bone skin is perfect against this kind of damage.


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## Icegaze (Aug 16, 2013)

Atlantic Storm said:


> What good would Mei's suitons do against Kimimaro apart from providing openings and forcing a distance? They're powerful, but realistically, I sort of doubt they're going to accomplish what tonnes of pressure failed. Kimimaro's bone skin is perfect against this kind of damage.



i agree and outside the funny man on the post before yours none suggested suiton could do anymore than put distance between them. 

I do agree though acid mist and lava are killers. However lava AoE isnt all that impressive nor is acid mist. I mean when its a kakuzu vs mei match people scream atsugi pushes it away. Not saying kimi can push it away however it doesnt seem fast enough to hit kimi from a distance, which is where kimi would be fighting considering Mei opens with lava. Anyone who thinks any other ninja without considerable speed or a defense like susanoo would approach mei is funny . 

even jugo with his range in cs2 would still have the intelligence to not get himself melted. How much more kimi who actually thinks when he fights. 

I would repeat myself again for everyone. Mei will open with lava before kimi makes his first move, after he sees lava he will use SnM because that is the only way he can hope to damage Mei.  same way kakashi attempted kamui the second he thought tobi was madara. 

You wont fight someone above your level without pulling out all the stops.


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## Veracity (Aug 16, 2013)

Atlantic Storm said:


> What good would Mei's suitons do against Kimimaro apart from providing openings and forcing a distance? They're powerful, but realistically, I sort of doubt they're going to accomplish what tonnes of pressure failed. Kimimaro's bone skin is perfect against this kind of damage.



She has the strongest Suiton Justus in the Manga. It's going to so atleast some damage, even if it's minor. It's mostly going to be used for major openings and keeping Kimmi away. Which it could do perfectly. It sent Sussano flying, it's gonna send Kimmi flying.

Or she could simply follow up her Suiton with a acid or Lava tech. The possibilities are endless.

But facts are, with her Suiton proficiency, power, and acid tech, Kimmi isn't engaging in taijustu. His one and only hope is bone forest.


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## Icegaze (Aug 16, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> She has the strongest Suiton Justus in the Manga. It's going to so atleast some damage, even if it's minor. It's mostly going to be used for major openings and keeping Kimmi away. Which it could do perfectly. It sent Sussano flying, it's gonna send Kimmi flying.
> 
> Or she could simply follow up her Suiton with a acid or Lava tech. The possibilities are endless.
> 
> But facts are, with her Suiton proficiency, power, and acid tech, Kimmi isn't engaging in taijustu. His one and only hope is bone forest.



actually its going to do none. who said she has the strongest suiton?? i would think daikodan out does anything she has. 
Water dragon did no damage to zabuza it only knocked him back into a tree. Kimimaro is so much more durable than zabuza. So no suiton does nothing. While suiton would no doubt push kimi back  it wont be doing anything but that.  I dont see what major opening would be created with that. If anything it reduces her chances of landing a good lava or acid mist hit on kimi. The further away kimi is the better his chances of avoiding being melted by lava or boiled by mist. 

I agree his one and only hope is bone forest. To me there was no doubt. I know that, you know that. Kimi would, you dont try to approach lava if you have another option


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## Bansai (Aug 16, 2013)

I don't even see Mei Terumi having a hard time dealing with him. Even if I personally think that Mei Terumi is an unworthy Kage, you can't put Kimimaro even close to her level. His bones may he extremely hard to break, but that's only troublesome for people who use Taijutsu to attack. Mei Terumi doesn't crush her opponent, she melts him. There is no way Kimimaro can even withstand her Kekkei Genkais. Both Kekkei Genkais are designed to melt her opponent. While her Futton Ninjutsu can melt by being highly corrosive, her Yoton Ninjutsu can melt his bones with its incredible heat. You can't tell me that she's going to have a hard time melting his bones if even Sasuke's Susano'o was nothing she couldn't melt. 
Her only problem will be that she does not seem to be a great close combatant and she has no knowledge about his abilities. However, considering that she doesn't seem to be an immovable wall and seems to be just as flexible as a normal Shinobi (judging by the way she kicked Black Zetsu), I don't think Kimimaro will be able to make it impossible for her to dodge at first. I think she'll have enough time to witness his ability and finish it with one Ninjutsu. But as I said, it's not going to be that easy because she first has to find a way to buy time so that she can use her Ninjutsu at all. As we've seen, even Suiton Jutsus take her a few seconds to activate. That's troublesome when fighting an experienced close combatant.


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## Icegaze (Aug 16, 2013)

Emporio Ivankov said:


> I don't even see Mei Terumi having a hard time dealing with him. Even if I personally think that Mei Terumi is an unworthy Kage, you can't put Kimimaro even close to her level. His bones may he extremely hard to break, but that's only troublesome for people who use Taijutsu to attack. Mei Terumi doesn't crush her opponent, she melts him. There is no way Kimimaro can even withstand her Kekkei Genkais. Both Kekkei Genkais are designed to melt her opponent. While her Futton Ninjutsu can melt by being highly corrosive, her Yoton Ninjutsu can melt his bones with its incredible heat. You can't tell me that she's going to have a hard time melting his bones if even Sasuke's Susano'o was nothing she couldn't melt.
> Her only problem will be that she does not seem to be a great close combatant and she has no knowledge about his abilities. However, considering that she doesn't seem to be an immovable wall and seems to be just as flexible as a normal Shinobi (judging by the way she kicked Black Zetsu), I don't think Kimimaro will be able to make it impossible for her to dodge at first. I think she'll have enough time to witness his ability and finish it with one Ninjutsu. But as I said, it's not going to be that easy because she first has to find a way to buy time so that she can use her Ninjutsu at all. As we've seen, even Suiton Jutsus take her a few seconds to activate. That's troublesome when fighting an experienced close combatant.



 Mei wins but common she doesnt need to buy time against kimimaro. She is the one with ninjutsu therefore the one with more range initially .

 She will attack first, kimi at that distance should avoid lava the second he sees it. He isnt going to try coming close. Because like you say lava can melt his bones. It doesnt matter how quickly kimi wont want to take the risk and then SnM

again i have never implied SnM is impossible to dodge however, with that technique kimimaro makes this more of a match. Without it even my fan bias cant deceive me into thinking he doesnt die in record time if he tries to engage in CQC. And my question to all those thinking he would i ask: would you come close to lava if you didnt have to? 

kimi can perform SnM in base granted not on the same level as shown by kabuto in the cave however, its not like he needs to go cs2 to use it or stand still therefore leaving himself vulnerable if people were thinking that.


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## Veracity (Aug 16, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> actually its going to do none. who said she has the strongest suiton?? i would think daikodan out does anything she has.
> Water dragon did no damage to zabuza it only knocked him back into a tree. Kimimaro is so much more durable than zabuza. So no suiton does nothing. While suiton would no doubt push kimi back  it wont be doing anything but that.  I dont see what major opening would be created with that. If anything it reduces her chances of landing a good lava or acid mist hit on kimi. The further away kimi is the better his chances of avoiding being melted by lava or boiled by mist.
> 
> I agree his one and only hope is bone forest. To me there was no doubt. I know that, you know that. Kimi would, you dont try to approach lava if you have another option



When did Mei hit Zabuza with a Suiton?

And she sent Madara flying, so Kimmi is no different.


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## Icegaze (Aug 16, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> When did Mei hit Zabuza with a Suiton?
> 
> And she sent Madara flying, so Kimmi is no different.



i said she will send kimi flying when did i say that wont happen. However how does that damage kimi. No Mei didnt hit zabuza with suiton, however what proof do you have that her water dragon is stronger than the water technique kakashi used on zabuza?

Why are you even bringing up suiton? the woman has acid and lava, she isnt going to be wasting her time using suiton. if she does she is only helping kimi get further away from her. She cant kill him if he is far away from her now can she


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## Veracity (Aug 16, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> i said she will send kimi flying when did i say that wont happen. However how does that damage kimi. No Mei didnt hit zabuza with suiton, however what proof do you have that her water dragon is stronger than the water technique kakashi used on zabuza?
> 
> Why are you even bringing up suiton? the woman has acid and lava, she isnt going to be wasting her time using suiton. if she does she is only helping kimi get further away from her. She cant kill him if he is far away from her now can she



Because she is a water style expert and excels at the Justu much greater then both Kakashi and Zabuza. She sent a sussano flying several meters with a simple Suiton Justu. Far stronger then what Kakashi or Zabuza can even think of.  Since you made that very bold statement, what proof do you have that their Suiton Justus are the same?

And because your under the impression that Nei couldn't land her lava or acid tech on Kimmi. Since we both agree that she will land a Suiton on, Kimmi, we have proof that it will send him soaring like a ragdoll.


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## Ashi (Aug 16, 2013)

godamn it get the ages right!

Gaara was 13 not 11


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## Icegaze (Aug 17, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> Because she is a water style expert and excels at the Justu much greater then both Kakashi and Zabuza. She sent a sussano flying several meters with a simple Suiton Justu. Far stronger then what Kakashi or Zabuza can even think of.  Since you made that very bold statement, what proof do you have that their Suiton Justus are the same?
> 
> And because your under the impression that Nei couldn't land her lava or acid tech on Kimmi. Since we both agree that she will land a Suiton on, Kimmi, we have proof that it will send him soaring like a ragdoll.



Suiton AoE exceeds that of lava and acid mist 
Who said kakashi suiton jutsu couldn't send susanoo flying ?
Also it was tsuamde punch that sent madara susanoo flying not Mei suiton jutsu 
I still fail to see how sending kimimaro flying with suiton helps Mei


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## Zuhaitz (Aug 17, 2013)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> godamn it get the ages right!
> 
> Gaara was 13 not 11



Lee was 13-14. Naruto was 12-13, and Gaara who is a year younger than Naruto was 11-12 years old.

As for the suitons, they don't only push people, they can also be used to do this:


Even Kimimaro needs to breath.


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## Veracity (Aug 17, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> Suiton AoE exceeds that of lava and acid mist
> Who said kakashi suiton jutsu couldn't send susanoo flying ?
> Also it was tsuamde punch that sent madara susanoo flying not Mei suiton jutsu
> I still fail to see how sending kimimaro flying with suiton helps Mei



Because you just said it barely damaged Zabuza. Kakashi is also a much weaker Suiton user.

You sure it was Tsunade?:_prevent_
And it will slightly damage Kimmi, while successfully allowing  him to never engage in taijustu.


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## Icegaze (Aug 18, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> Because you just said it barely damaged Zabuza. Kakashi is also a much weaker Suiton user.
> 
> You sure it was Tsunade?:V2
> And it will slightly damage Kimmi, while successfully allowing  him to never engage in taijustu.



Because it did barely damage Zabuza 
Who said kakashi is a much weaker suiton user?? Proof !!!
Sending kimi flying won't damage him , he came out undamaged from being crushed in sand on 2 occasions no reason to believe water damages him . None at all

And like I hve been Saying kimi will never attempt CQC the second he sees lava 
Who would if they have another way? It's silly to think he would . Sand is not the same thing as lava 
He can't assume he can tank lava


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## Zuhaitz (Aug 18, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> Because it did barely damage Zabuza
> Who said kakashi is a much weaker suiton user?? Proof !!!



Zabuza coudln't move for a whole week. Sure that was only because of the Kunais 

Also lol, you can't be taken seriously if you really need proofs of Mei being a better suiton user than Kakashi. But if you insist, you only need to compare Kakashi water dragon with Mei's 



Icegaze said:


> Sending kimi flying won't damage him , he came out undamaged from being crushed in sand on 2 occasions no reason to believe water damages him . None at all



Because the pressure a sand attack of jounin level (I'm being generous with you) Gaara can create It's the same of a suiton that can stop Madara's katon and send him flying despite his Susanoo 



Icegaze said:


> And like I hve been Saying kimi will never attempt CQC the second he sees lava
> Who would if they have another way? It's silly to think he would . Sand is not the same thing as lava
> He can't assume he can tank lava



What other way would he find?


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## Icegaze (Aug 18, 2013)

SnM he doesn't need to be close silly 
Again still didn't prove Mei suiton is stronger just your Kage level title hyping 
it didn't look bigger and wasn't stated to be stronger . 
kimi durability >>>>>>>>>> Zabuza 
Zabuza got stabbed by kunai . Kimi tanks chakra enhanced blades in base


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## Cryogonal (Aug 18, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> SnM he doesn't need to be close silly
> Again still didn't prove Mei suiton is stronger just your Kage level title hyping
> it didn't look bigger and wasn't stated to be stronger .
> kimi durability >>>>>>>>>> Zabuza
> Zabuza got stabbed by kunai . Kimi tanks chakra enhanced blades in base



It doesn't look bigger??



That image clearly shows how big her suiton was. 

Saying that Kakashi's version has the same power is very laughable.


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## Veracity (Aug 18, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> Because it did barely damage Zabuza
> Who said kakashi is a much weaker suiton user?? Proof !!!
> Sending kimi flying won't damage him , he came out undamaged from being crushed in sand on 2 occasions no reason to believe water damages him . None at all
> 
> ...



Stop being a dumbass. Mei is a much stronger water user just based on feats. If Kakashi barely damaged Zabuza then he isn't budging a Sussano.

War-Arc Gaara with his strongest sand techniques couldn't even hurt or move Madara's Sussano, yet Mei sent it like a ragdoll. Kimmi might not attain some deadly damage, but he's going to get hurt in some sense, and he's not going to be able to get even close or even see Mei for that matter. He's also a taijustu user, so he heavily relies in that style, and even if he did manage to "instantly" bring up his strongest Justu, then we've established that Mei has an easy counter.


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## Icegaze (Aug 18, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> Stop being a dumbass. Mei is a much stronger water user just based on feats. If Kakashi barely damaged Zabuza then he isn't budging a Sussano.
> 
> War-Arc Gaara with his strongest sand techniques couldn't even hurt or move Madara's Sussano, yet Mei sent it like a ragdoll. Kimmi might not attain some deadly damage, but he's going to get hurt in some sense, and he's not going to be able to get even close or even see Mei for that matter. He's also a taijustu user, so he heavily relies in that style, and even if he did manage to "instantly" bring up his strongest Justu, then we've established that Mei has an easy counter.



Your the dumbass . Mei didn't do anything but move susanoo. Susanoo sustained no damage Ao clearly all her jutsu did was move susnaoo. Kakashi jutsu moved Zabuza . How does moving kimimaro damage him when he didn't get crushed from bein buried ?

Kimi relies on taijutsu however would have no issue using SnM if he sees lava 
and Mei doesn't have some fool proof counter to SnM. Doesn't mean she gets 1 shotted though


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## Cryogonal (Aug 18, 2013)

They're both IC in this match right?

I highly doubt Kimimaro would use his SnM so early in a fight....


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## Veracity (Aug 18, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> Your the dumbass . Mei didn't do anything but move susanoo. Susanoo sustained no damage Ao clearly all her jutsu did was move susnaoo. Kakashi jutsu moved Zabuza . How does moving kimimaro damage him when he didn't get crushed from bein buried ?
> 
> Kimi relies on taijutsu however would have no issue using SnM if he sees lava
> and Mei doesn't have some fool proof counter to SnM. Doesn't mean she gets 1 shotted though



It's funny how I'm chopping your conversation down and countering every one of your arguments to the point where your entire argument is like a sentence at this point.  I thought Tsunade moved Sussano right? And you fail to understand that moving Sussano isn't an easy feat. It takes a ton of pressure and force. The combined attacks of D-Gaara-Temari-and Kankuro didn't even make Sasukes Sussano slide. The onslaught of a attacks displayed by Tsunade and Ay made Sussabo barely budge. Making Sussano soar is an impressive feat that takes a ton of force. Even Kimmi would take a substantial amount of damage from a single water dragon, and that mixed in with the environmental damage would hurt him even more. That mixed in with the fact that he would never know where his opponent was due to being ragdolled and the hidden mist Justu.

Really?  

Your analyzation is garbage. So there's no proof  that Mei can complete a jump, but there's proof that at the exact sight if lava, Kimmi will immediately use his trump card? Cool.


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## trance (Aug 18, 2013)

What the? 

Kimimaro gets melted...


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## Zuhaitz (Aug 18, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> SnM he doesn't need to be close silly
> Again still didn't prove Mei suiton is stronger just your Kage level title hyping
> it didn't look bigger and wasn't stated to be stronger .
> kimi durability >>>>>>>>>> Zabuza
> Zabuza got stabbed by kunai . Kimi tanks chakra enhanced blades in base



SnM isn't as powerful in the manga as It is in your wet dreams 

It's slow enough for Mei to dodge it.


Mei's water dragon was more than 10 times bigger than Kakashi's.


Are you suggesting that Zabuza couldn't move for a whole week because he was stabbed by 3 kunais?
He couldn't move because he was crushed by a giant suiton. The Kunais were just to make he didn't try anything funny while Kakashi would finish him.


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## Ashi (Aug 18, 2013)

Are we really comparing mei's  water jutsu that's on par with madara's fire jutsu

To kakashi's water jutsu


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## trance (Aug 18, 2013)

Apparently. 

She's not as good as Tobirama and Kisame but she clearly has better Suiton than Kakashi, who barely uses Suiton at all.


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## Veracity (Aug 18, 2013)

Exactly^^^^ and he's asking me for exact proof. Like it's common sense. It's like comparing PTS Sasukes Katons to Madara.


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## Icegaze (Aug 18, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> It's funny how I'm chopping your conversation down and countering every one of your arguments to the point where your entire argument is like a sentence at this point.  I thought Tsunade moved Sussano right? And you fail to understand that moving Sussano isn't an easy feat. It takes a ton of pressure and force. The combined attacks of D-Gaara-Temari-and Kankuro didn't even make Sasukes Sussano slide. The onslaught of a attacks displayed by Tsunade and Ay made Sussabo barely budge. Making Sussano soar is an impressive feat that takes a ton of force. Even Kimmi would take a substantial amount of damage from a single water dragon, and that mixed in with the environmental damage would hurt him even more. That mixed in with the fact that he would never know where his opponent was due to being ragdolled and the hidden mist Justu.
> 
> Really?
> 
> Your analyzation is garbage. So there's no proof  that Mei can complete a jump, but there's proof that at the exact sight if lava, Kimmi will immediately use his trump card? Cool.



upon all the pressure you claim her water dragon has, it failed to put the slightest crack in susanoo. It didnt even scratch it. Ei chop has more effect than it. Water jutsu so far in the manga have done no damage what so ever to anyone. So claiming her water dragon would damage kimi because it looks big is fun and games but i still dont see how that damages kimi. 
Either way i have already said she wins with lava or acid mist but her suitons are only good to push kimi away

@The kid. You cant jump over SnM maybe if she was as dumb as you but no ninja would try jumping over a random bone growing attack its flat out stupid to do so.  I mean am sure thats why itachi didnt just jump over it. ....cuz it was so easy to jump over he used susanoo. 

People i already said mei wins one more time so dont get your panties in a bunch and start reaching for BS. Mei suiton would do jack shit. Suiton does jack shit. Suiton is about the most useless element in the manga. Gai tanked suikodan and took no damage. zabuza merely got knocked by into a tree. And somehow you all believe because Mei suiton btw suiton>katon 
is going to do something to kimi because it blocked madara katon while having the elemental advantage.  Who said kakashi cant block madara katon. 12 or so fodders did so, so it aint that impressive for any good suiton user.

tsunade punch is what threw madara in the air you silly people look 
What the fuck... This isn't Kurenai's or Tayuya's genjutsu that can be broken by inflicting pain.

also look at the size of madara katon. kakuzu katon are that size. so nothing impressive

Now look at mei water dragon properly see the size of madara compared to the water dragon then go back and look at the size of kakashi and zabuza compared to their water dragon. Her water dragon was not bigger in any way 
What the fuck... This isn't Kurenai's or Tayuya's genjutsu that can be broken by inflicting pain.

Look at kakashi and zabuza water dragon now. 

What the fuck... This isn't Kurenai's or Tayuya's genjutsu that can be broken by inflicting pain.

look at their water dragon and compare it to them. Are you all blind??? they are the same size. Mei water dragon isnt any bigger. Not in the slightest. Not even a little bit


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## Zuhaitz (Aug 18, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> upon all the pressure you claim her water dragon has, it failed to put the slightest crack in susanoo. It didnt even scratch it. Ei chop has more effect than it. Water jutsu so far in the manga have done no damage what so ever to anyone. So claiming her water dragon would damage kimi because it looks big is fun and games but i still dont see how that damages kimi.
> Either way i have already said she wins with lava or acid mist but her suitons are only good to push kimi away
> 
> @The kid. You cant jump over SnM maybe if she was as dumb as you but no ninja would try jumping over a random bone growing attack its flat out stupid to do so.  I mean am sure thats why itachi didnt just jump over it. ....cuz it was so easy to jump over he used susanoo.
> ...



Stop making a fool of yourself.


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## Icegaze (Aug 18, 2013)

look at the panels i provided your the fool here. 
zabuza took this suiton head on and clearly wasnt damaged. he still asking kakashi you can see the future? 
not my back in broken, i cant move...bla bla bla 
What the fuck... This isn't Kurenai's or Tayuya's genjutsu that can be broken by inflicting pain.


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## schwingers (Aug 18, 2013)

A healthy kimimaro could put up a good fight as he would be at low Kage level, but Mei is a real Kage, so I have to give it to her.


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## Ashi (Aug 18, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> upon all the pressure you claim her water dragon has, it failed to put the slightest crack in susanoo. It didnt even scratch it. Ei chop has more effect than it. Water jutsu so far in the manga have done no damage what so ever to anyone. So claiming her water dragon would damage kimi because it looks big is fun and games but i still dont see how that damages kimi.
> Either way i have already said she wins with lava or acid mist but her suitons are only good to push kimi away
> 
> @The kid. You cant jump over SnM maybe if she was as dumb as you but no ninja would try jumping over a random bone growing attack its flat out stupid to do so.  I mean am sure thats why itachi didnt just jump over it. ....cuz it was so easy to jump over he used susanoo.
> ...



doesnt matter how much damage it did to madara's susanoo it still flung it back a considerable amount of distacnce and her dragon was on par with madara's fire jutsu that a lone means that her water jutsu is better tan those two combined and what do you mean suiton would do jack shit? ever seen someone get hit with a high presssure water hose? and good god how kakuzu's fire jutsu anywhere near madara's?


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## Ashi (Aug 18, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> look at the panels i provided your the fool here.
> zabuza took this suiton head on and clearly wasnt damaged. he still asking kakashi you can see the future?
> not my back in broken, i cant move...bla bla bla
> What the fuck... This isn't Kurenai's or Tayuya's genjutsu that can be broken by inflicting pain.



like right after kakahsi took tsukuyomi head on he didn't say "guys im slipping into a coma" so it didnt do anything?


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## Icegaze (Aug 18, 2013)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> like right after kakahsi took tsukuyomi head on he didn't say "guys im slipping into a coma" so it didnt do anything?



no he didnt but he was out for a week was he not? zabuza got stabbed by kakashi kunai and taken out by haku senbon. kakashi water jutsu did no visible damage.  kakashi was on his knees after tskuyomi 

dont apply real world logic to kishi manga. Water jutsu so far have done no damage to anyone. 

the fire jutsu madara used on the panel i provided isnt any bigger than the one kakuzu used against kakashi. Doesnt mean kakuzu can use katon as well as madara, however what the panel shows is that madara katon wasnt that big. Mei water dragon wasnt bigger than kakashi water dragon. 

look at both their techniques compared to their sizes.


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## Veracity (Aug 18, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> upon all the pressure you claim her water dragon has, it failed to put the slightest crack in susanoo. It didnt even scratch it. Ei chop has more effect than it. Water jutsu so far in the manga have done no damage what so ever to anyone. So claiming her water dragon would damage kimi because it looks big is fun and games but i still dont see how that damages kimi.
> Either way i have already said she wins with lava or acid mist but her suitons are only good to push kimi away
> 
> @The kid. You cant jump over SnM maybe if she was as dumb as you but no ninja would try jumping over a random bone growing attack its flat out stupid to do so.  I mean am sure thats why itachi didnt just jump over it. ....cuz it was so easy to jump over he used susanoo.
> ...



You seem not understand the concept. It still takes ALOT of force to move Sussano at the speed and distance. It's like if a gust of wind threw a car down the street. Lets say the car didn't sustain crushing and cracking damage, but was still thrown 49 feet. Then, 15 rounds from an Ak get fired into the hood of the car. Option B got holes and cracks created while option A got thrown across a street and sustained environmental damage. The fact of the matter is, if any f this shit happened to a human they would instantly die. The gust of wind is like taking repeated heavy punches that knock you into other shit and disorientates you.

Your point is? A v2 chop from Ay would split Kimmi in 16 pieces. If Mei had that much force from a single Suiton, she would instantly kill Kimmi.

I don't care if Sution jutsu from other characters hasn't meet your damage needs, but he fact is Mei had a single feat that's more impressive then another Water dragon shown. She tossed a freaking Sussano. Her Sution proficiency is higher then most Suiton users.

I think your under the impression that I'm saying a Suiton is going to severely injure Kimmi. It's not. But it's still going to injure him. It's like taking a heavy punch to his face when the Justu hits, then the environmental damage. If mei plays her cards right, a single Suiton Justu executed can pretty much end the fight. It'll do SOME damage and allow her to mask her location even under her hidden mist Justu.

Why do you think that? The Justu has been used like 2 times. The reason hat Itachi didn't jump was because Kishi didn't want him too. Or the act that he was an Edo zombie with infinite chakra and the usage of Sussano wouldn't waste anything. She can ether jump over the bones, jump onto the side of them, or jump up and cast an acid Justu down toward the bones this melting them. 

I couldn't  honestly give a flying fuck about your Suiton users. We're not talkin about them. We're talking about Mei who has a monster water dragon Justu. And true, she did have te elemental advantage, but it took SEVERAL experienced Suiton users to counter a weaker Katon by Madara. Kakashi has a weak Suiton Justu, and couldn't dream to counter any Uchiha Katon


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## schwingers (Aug 18, 2013)

Are you arguing that suiton is harmless?


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## IchLiebe (Aug 18, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> the fire jutsu madara used on the panel i provided isnt any bigger than the one kakuzu used against kakashi. Doesnt mean kakuzu can use katon as well as madara, however what the panel shows is that madara katon wasnt that big. Mei water dragon wasnt bigger than kakashi water dragon.



Kakuza did a combination jutsu of wind+fire. Madara did a bigger one than Kakuza's without wind and did it casually.

I'm a Kakashi fan and I admit Mei's was bigger. Not only that but Kakashi was using the water he was standing on. Mei was using water out of her mouth, and she did two different suitons in two panels. One suiton beat Madaras katon, who needed a dozen regular suiton uses to beat, and the other sent susanoo flying.


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## schwingers (Aug 18, 2013)

IchLiebe said:


> Kakuza did a combination jutsu of wind+fire. Madara did a bigger one than Kakuza's without wind and did it casually.
> 
> I'm a Kakashi fan and I admit Mei's was bigger. Not only that but Kakashi was using the water he was standing on. Mei was using water out of her mouth, and she did two different suitons in two panels. One suiton beat Madaras katon, who needed a dozen regular suiton uses to beat, and the other sent susanoo flying.



You can't compare art!
The only objective of the artist is to make the image look cool.


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## IchLiebe (Aug 18, 2013)

And another thing to look at. Sasuke in a lower susanoo wasn't even moved by Kabuto's suiton. So it's clear that Mei's suiton are pretty strong.


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## Synn (Aug 18, 2013)

*Mei wins with little to no difficulty.*

_Kirigakure no Jutsu_ right off the bat and she could wrap this up rather quickly. He can't see his opponent, therefore he has no way to take her down. Should he use _Sawarabi no Mai_ as a last resort, Mei can most likely melt the bones and proceed to rape the opponent.


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## Ashi (Aug 18, 2013)

IchLiebe said:


> And another thing to look at. Sasuke in a lower susanoo wasn't even moved by Kabuto's suiton. So it's clear that Mei's suiton are pretty strong.



im pretty sure he got washed up


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## Icegaze (Aug 18, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> You seem not understand the concept. It still takes ALOT of force to move Sussano at the speed and distance. It's like if a gust of wind threw a car down the street. Lets say the car didn't sustain crushing and cracking damage, but was still thrown 49 feet. Then, 15 rounds from an Ak get fired into the hood of the car. Option B got holes and cracks created while option A got thrown across a street and sustained environmental damage. The fact of the matter is, if any f this shit happened to a human they would instantly die. The gust of wind is like taking repeated heavy punches that knock you into other shit and disorientates you.
> 
> Your point is? A v2 chop from Ay would split Kimmi in 16 pieces. If Mei had that much force from a single Suiton, she would instantly kill Kimmi.
> 
> ...



tsunade punch moved susanoo. Water dragon simply carried him along. madara was already in the air. Also madara casually jumped out of the suiton. So i still dont get why you hyping it

again Mei wont jump over SnM because its stupid to do so, the bones pop out at random. Would be like saying its smart to jump over mines littered about the place. She can block SnM never said she couldnt what i did say however is she wouldnt jump and that SnM AoE exceeds her lava
all kimi needs is a bone to appear behind her and he can stab her to kill her. hence why i said Mei wins 6.5/10


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## Veracity (Aug 18, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> tsunade punch moved susanoo. Water dragon simply carried him along. madara was already in the air. Also madara casually jumped out of the suiton. So i still dont get why you hyping it
> 
> again Mei wont jump over SnM because its stupid to do so, the bones pop out at random. Would be like saying its smart to jump over mines littuered about the place. She can block SnM never said she couldnt what i did say however is she wouldnt jump and that SnM AoE exceeds her lava
> all kimi needs is a bone to appear behind her and he can stab her to kill her. hence why i said Mei wins 6.5/10



No it didn't. Tsunades punches(and Ay's) didn't make Sussano at all. It simply cracked and created holes in it. I already proved  That Meis Water Dragon ragdolled Madara's Sussano. Stop back tracking. He didn't "casually" jump out if the Suiton, because he ragdolled directly into Tsunade and Ay. I'm not the only one hyping said Justu. Everyone is. Mei ONLY uses elemental Ninjustu, so it's common sense to believe her elemental Justus are above most ninja. Especially since she gained the title of a Kage doing so.

Why is it stupid to do so when she was shown to Jump a considerable distance? All she has to do is jump out if the AoE. Is that hard to understand? Or she could stand on the side of a bone and cast an acid Justu that melts everything around her. If Kimmi jumps out, he gets melted instantly. It jump above and do the same thing.

Honestly under Mei winning this without the use of her lava. Just Hidden Mist tech-Acid tech- and Suiton techs.


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## Icegaze (Aug 18, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> No it didn't. Tsunades punches(and Ay's) didn't make Sussano at all. It simply cracked and created holes in it. I already proved  That Meis Water Dragon ragdolled Madara's Sussano. Stop back tracking. He didn't "casually" jump out if the Suiton, because he ragdolled directly into Tsunade and Ay. I'm not the only one hyping said Justu. Everyone is. Mei ONLY uses elemental Ninjustu, so it's common sense to believe her elemental Justus are above most ninja. Especially since she gained the title of a Kage doing so.
> 
> Why is it stupid to do so when she was shown to Jump a considerable distance? All she has to do is jump out if the AoE. Is that hard to understand? Or she could stand on the side of a bone and cast an acid Justu that melts everything around her. If Kimmi jumps out, he gets melted instantly. It jump above and do the same thing.
> 
> Honestly under Mei winning this without the use of her lava. Just Hidden Mist tech-Acid tech- and Suiton techs.



did you check the panel i provided we see tsunade punch it right before Mei used suiton
or did you casually miss that. Mei used suiton, madara jumps out of suiton. Seen by the speed marks and madara being out of the suiton unharmed 
 
how does she jump out of the AoE of something that covers a forest? while popping out at random. How would she know what its AoE is ? when she jumps where does she land. Your the one back tracking 
Stand on the side of a bone ??? !!! kimi emerges from that bone she is standing on  and stabs her.


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## Veracity (Aug 18, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> did you check the panel i provided we see tsunade punch it right before Mei used suiton
> or did you casually miss that. Mei used suiton, madara jumps out of suiton. Seen by the speed marks and madara being out of the suiton unharmed
> 
> how does she jump out of the AoE of something that covers a forest? while popping out at random. How would she know what its AoE is ? when she jumps where does she land. Your the one back tracking
> Stand on the side of a bone ??? !!! kimi emerges from that bone she is standing on  and stabs her.



When did you provide a scan? It's a general consensus that Meis Sution ragdolled Madara.

She doesn't. She jumps up, then casts an acid Justu towards the ground, and lands on the fucking ground.  So he can instantaneously appear at every single bone? How would he even know where Mei is considering the Hidden Mist technique has already been activated. And Kimmi cannot appear at mei(doesn't even know where Mei is) before Mei already has her acid technique up.


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## IchLiebe (Aug 18, 2013)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> im pretty sure he got washed up



1. We don't see the suiton hit susanoo. We see Sasuke cast Katon in susanoo and the next panel we see him there's no trace of susanoo. Everytime susanoo's been busted or cracked we saw traces of it somewhere. Here we don't so he had to put it down.
2. I was talking about here.
3. Mei's suiton>SM Kabuto's suiton


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