# Kage Ranking Consensus?



## Rob (Oct 11, 2013)

Just wondering how the NBD ranks all the Kage together (Baring Hashirama of course)

*Rank these in order form strongest to weakest:*
-Tobirama
-Hiruzen
-Minato
-Tsunade
-Muu
-Onoki
-Raikaugernaut
-Ei/Ay/A (Which is it?)
-Trollkage
-Yagura
-Mei Terumi
-4th Kazekage
-Gaara

Sorry for the clusterfuck list of characters. 

Just curious is all. 

*Bonus:* Throw Danzo in the list for shits and giggles.

*Conditions: *
They are all alive. 
They are not in Edo form. 
They are allowed to use everything they've shown (Minato and KCM, Tobirama and FTG, etc. etc.)


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## Sadgoob (Oct 11, 2013)

Minato 
Danzō

Tobirama
Mū 

Ōnoki

3rd Raikage
Yagura

Trollkage
4th Kazekage 
Gaara
A

Mei
Tsunade
Hiruzen


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## Eliyua23 (Oct 11, 2013)

Minato
Hiruzen
Tobirama/ Danzo
Tsunade/Onoki
Muu/Trollkage
Gaara
Raikage
3rd Raikage
Yagura
Mei/4th Kazekage


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## Eliyua23 (Oct 11, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> *Living?*
> 
> 1. Tobirama
> 2. Mū
> ...



did you read the previous chapter it's obvious Minato is stronger than Tobirama , Mu stronger than Minato lol

Gaara and Mei stronger than Tsuande lol


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## Rob (Oct 11, 2013)

@ Strat and Eli

Looks like Hiruzen is the odd one out here...

Why is he above or below the characters listed? 

I was always under the impression that he'd be in the middle or close to the top somewhere. 

Due to hype of course, from the manga itself. (Always praising Prime Saru)


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## Sadgoob (Oct 11, 2013)

Eliyua, the OP edited his list. As you can see from what I bolded, I thought he meant while they were alive. 

I do not think Minato was stronger than Tobirama or Mū when he was alive, before using the Shiki Fūjin to seal Kurama. However, with KCM, then he is definitely much stronger.​


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## Eliyua23 (Oct 11, 2013)

RobLucciRapes said:


> @ Strat and Eli
> 
> Looks like Hiruzen is the odd one out here...
> 
> ...




damn didn't even see Hiruzen at the bottom , I wonder did Strat  just list his favorite characters in order


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## Nikushimi (Oct 11, 2013)

1. Hashirama
2. Minato
3. & 4. 3rd Raikage/A (tie)
5. Tobirama
6. Danzou
7. & 8. Muu/2nd Mizukage (tie)
9. Oonoki
10. Tsunade
11. Yagura
12. Gaara
13. 4th Kazekage
14. Mei
15. Hiruzen (old)


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## Sadgoob (Oct 11, 2013)

RobLucciRapes said:


> Due to hype of course, from the manga itself. (Always praising Prime Saru)



That's why our lists were different. If we account for hype, then he is most certainly closer to the top, but you said the list was based on what they've shown, no? Hiruzen hasn't shown much.​


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## Godaime Tsunade (Oct 11, 2013)

Minato
Muu
Sandaime Raikage
Onoki
Tsunade
Tobirama
Trollkage
Yagura
Gaara
Mei Terumi
Ei
Yondaime Kazekage​​


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## Eliyua23 (Oct 11, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> Eliyua, the OP edited his list. As you can see from what I bolded, I thought he meant while they were alive.
> 
> I do not think Minato was stronger than Tobirama or Mū when he was alive, before using the Shiki Fūjin to seal Kurama. However, with KCM, then he is definitely much stronger.​



how can Minato not be stronger, he was the savior of the world according to Raikage, Jiriyia had said he was the most gifted ninja he has ever seen, Kakashi says only Naruto can surpass the 4th, Minato countered Kamui, could've defeated Rinnegan Obito in base! teleported a Juubidama in base

his base form shits on anything Mu ever thought of 

as for Tobirama if you read this past chapter it pretty much confirms that Tobirama is weaker than Minato and that's without Bijuu Mode


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## Rob (Oct 11, 2013)

Raikage's are stronger than Tsuchikage's?


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## Bonly (Oct 11, 2013)

Minato
Tobi
Muu
French Dude
Onoki
Yagura
Sandaime Raikage
Gaara
Tsunade
A
Mei
Yondaime Kazekage
Hiruzen

Gaara and Tsunade are more or less equal so they could switch spots, I just put Gaara first because G comes before T.


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## Sadgoob (Oct 11, 2013)

Eliyua23 said:


> how can Minato not be stronger, he was the savior of the world according to Raikage



The Raikage also said only Ōnoki could beat Mū, no? Hype is hype.



Eliyua23 said:


> his base form shits on anything Mu ever thought of



I disagree.



Eliyua23 said:


> If you read this past chapter it pretty much confirms that Tobirama is weaker than Minato and that's without Bijuu Mode



Tobirama has Edo Tensei, Senju stamina, and a superior personality.


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## Rob (Oct 11, 2013)

I hate making these threads because I always end up with so many questions... But I don't feel like making a thread for ever Kage match up possible. 

Like... Tsunade>Tobirama? 
Ei below Gaara and Mei?


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## Eliyua23 (Oct 11, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> 1. Hashirama
> 2. Minato
> 3. & 4. 3rd Raikage/A (tie)
> 5. Tobirama
> ...



Raikage stronger than Tobirama ?


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## Master Sephiroth (Oct 11, 2013)

1: Minato
2: Tobirama
3: Muu
4: 2nd Mizukage
5: Oonoki
6: 3rd Raikage
7-9: Danzo/A/Gaara
10: Tsunade
11: 4th Kazekage
12: Mei
13: Hiruzen (old)

???: Yagura


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## Nikushimi (Oct 11, 2013)

RobLucciRapes said:


> Raikage's are stronger than Tsuchikage's?



Yeah. If they started within conversation distance, the Tsuchikage would get blitzed and spiked like volleyballs before they could do anything.



Eliyua23 said:


> Raikage stronger than Tobirama ?



Minato barely dodged the 4th, who was confident he could catch him the next time by watching for the kunai he was gonna jump to, and Minato seemed to consider this a genuine threat, because he took B hostage instead of continuing the fight. Tobirama isn't quite as fast as Minato, and he doesn't (or can't) spam Hiraishin seals all over the battlefield with kunai like Minato can, so I'd bet A could catch him.

Tobirama flat-out doesn't have anything that can hurt the 3rd. In a battle of attrition, the guy who fought 10,000 shinobi non-stop for 3 days and nights before he died isn't gonna lose.


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## Rob (Oct 11, 2013)

^
What if Onoki or Muu fought 3rd or 4th at a distance. Say their battlefield is where the Shinobi alliance is fighting Fagbito right now. 
Empty field. In character. Start at 100m away.


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## Rocky (Oct 11, 2013)

Obviously the Tsuchikage win if they start a football field away.

95% of fights in the Manga begin with some sort of conversation though, and that would lead to a brutal speed blitzing. 

Seriously though, what's with the Muu overestimation?  He was paneled by a Naruto clone & Gaara sand platform.


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## Nikushimi (Oct 11, 2013)

RobLucciRapes said:


> ^
> What if Onoki or Muu fought 3rd or 4th at a distance. Say their battlefield is where the Shinobi alliance is fighting Fagbito right now.
> Empty field. In character. Start at 100m away.





Rocky said:


> Obviously the Tsuchikage win if they start a football field away.
> 
> 95% of fights in the Manga begin with some sort of conversation though, and that would lead to a brutal speed blitzing.



^What he said.

The Tsuchikage win if they start a ridiculous distance away from the Raikage, but that's based on tailoring the circumstances to their fighting style rather than any conscious adaptation on their part.

I don't think Oonoki would be able to beat A at any distance, though; in order to stand a chance of hitting the 4th with Jinton, Oonoki would have to get close enough for A to be capable of blitzing him...and that's exactly what would happen. Otherwise, Oonoki just stays out of reach and it's a stalemate.

Muu, however, would just be able to go invisible and one-shot either Raikage from behind.



> Seriously though, what's with the Muu overestimation?  He was paneled by a Naruto clone & Gaara sand platform.



THANK YOU.

Post of the year material, right here.


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## Master Sephiroth (Oct 11, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> THANK YOU.
> 
> Post of the year material, right here.




Lol. So Muu matching Oonoki with Jinton, not able to be sensed to anyone who didn't directly touch him (i.e Gaara's sand) and being able to split himself in a split-second's notice isn't impressive? On top of that, his sensing range is very large. Among the farthest we've seen so far.


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## Rocky (Oct 11, 2013)

Master Sephiroth said:


> Lol. So Muu matching Oonoki with Jinton, not able to be sensed to anyone who didn't directly touch him (i.e Gaara's sand) and being able to split himself in a split-second's notice isn't impressive? On top of that, his sensing range is very large. Among the farthest we've seen so far.




I'm sorry, but getting soloed by a Naruto clone with an assist from a sand platform isn't impressive. 

Muu has an interesting move-set, but he isn't all that powerful.


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## Master Sephiroth (Oct 11, 2013)

Rocky said:


> I'm sorry, but getting soloed by a Naruto clone with an assist from a sand platform isn't impressive.
> 
> Muu has an interesting move-set, but he isn't all that powerful.



Are you that tunnel visioned that you don't even look at what else he did?

Muu had everything against him. He was forced to attack with Jinton and he had no intel on Chakra arms and he was being double teamed. That's not getting soloed. Are you underestimating the speed of KM Chakra arms? 

By that logic Nagato got soloed by Itachi with help from Naruto's FRS and Bee's Bijudama. Therefore Nagato is weak and not very impressive as a fighter.


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## Doge (Oct 11, 2013)

RobLucciRapes said:


> Just wondering how the NBD ranks all the Kage together (Baring Hashirama of course)
> 
> *Rank these in order form strongest to weakest:*
> -Tobiramad
> ...



1, Minato
2. Tobirama
3. Muu
4. Onoki
5. Raikaugernaut
6. Ei
7. Gaara
8. Tsunade
9. Yagura
10. Hiruzen
11. Mei


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## Rocky (Oct 11, 2013)

Master Sephiroth said:


> Are you that tunnel visioned that you don't even look at what else he did?




He didn't really accomplish anything in the war, other than summoning Madara.



> Muu had everything against him. He was forced to attack with Jinton and he had no intel on Chakra arms and he was being double teamed. That's not getting soloed. Are you underestimating the speed of KM Chakra arms?



This is how the fight went down once Datclone got there:

~Naruto attacks from behind
~Muu sense dodges 
~Sand Platform joins the fray
~Naruto jumps off Sand Platform
~Muu sees this happen, and is still convinced his Jinton will strike first
~ Naruto uses a Chakra arm to extend his range
~Rasengan GG.

As you can see, Muu was basically soloed by a Kage Bunshin. His lack of knowledge does not change this. Most fights in the Manga are no knowledge bouts.



> By that logic Nagato got soloed by Itachi with help from Naruto's FRS and Bee's Bijudama. Therefore Nagato is weak and not very impressive as a fighter.




It is the same logic. Problem is, getting 3-man'd by Edo Itachi, KCM Naruto, and Killer Bee contributing equally >>> getting soloed by a Naruto clone with Gaara's sand platform.  Even getting soloed by Edo Itachi alone would've been more impressive.


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## Nikushimi (Oct 11, 2013)

Master Sephiroth said:


> Lol. So Muu matching Oonoki with Jinton, not able to be sensed to anyone who didn't directly touch him (i.e Gaara's sand) and being able to split himself in a split-second's notice isn't impressive? On top of that, his sensing range is very large. Among the farthest we've seen so far.



I didn't say Muu wasn't impressive, but he IS frequently overrated.

I don't even see why Muu vs. Itachi is considered debate-worthy, for example; just seems like another obvious Sharingan troll waiting to happen.

Invisibility is his most useful asset, but his body doesn't disappear instantly, so the opponent does have a chance to just rush him if they are close enough when the battle starts.


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## ueharakk (Oct 11, 2013)

- Minato
- Tobirama
- Hiruzen
- oonoki
- Sandaime Raikage
- Muu/Trollkage
- Yagura
- Ei
- Tsunade
- Gaara
- Gaara's dad
- Mei


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## Rocky (Oct 11, 2013)

Looking at all existing Kage characters, Muu is not "impressive". Hashirama is impressive, Minato is impressive, Tobirama is impressive, etc. These Kage have damn good showings against similarly exceptional villains or other characters. Muu has never been anything but a standard Kage.


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## Lawrence777 (Oct 11, 2013)

Minato 
Third Raikage / Trollkage
Fourth Raikage
Tobirama
Onoki
Tsunade
Gaara
Gaara's dad
Mei 
Hiruzen
Muu

Ei would totally plaster virtually everyone but Minato with V2 flicker face punch as long as he lives long enough to use it. The Raikage can both dodge almost everything the rest of the kage have with their speed amplification.


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## ueharakk (Oct 11, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Looking at all existing Kage characters, Muu is not "impressive". Hashirama is impressive, Minato is impressive, Tobirama is impressive, etc. These Kage have damn good showings against similarly exceptional villains or other characters. Muu has never been anything but a standard Kage.



oonoki needed gaara and naruto's help to defeat muu.  that's pretty impressive considering the impressive things oonoki pulled against madara.  Though he's not up there with hashirama, minato and tobirama, I don't think calling muu a "standard kage" is doing him justice.


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## Eliyua23 (Oct 11, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> Yeah. If they started within conversation distance, the Tsuchikage would get blitzed and spiked like volleyballs before they could do anything.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The Flashback indicated that Minato was out of Raikage's league beucause he was flatout faster, and he still had Killer Bee marked, after their encounter Raikage believed Minato to be the savior of the world, in no way shape or form was Raikage ever even close to Minato, and that's mainly because FTG utilizes instant speed, even thought Tobirama might not be as advanced with the technique he has shown that he's at least in the ballpark with Minato as it pertains to his aptitude with the jutsu, Raikage is a linear fighter who can't match instant speed, then on top of that you have his Edo Tensei and seals which could fuck up Raikage's world, and that's just scratching the surface of what Tobirama can do, and dad isn't even as fast as his son he has zero shot against Tobirama.


I also don't see how Tsunade is being rated so low, are we talking about combat feats or factoring in everything as a shinobi, because her support/medical feats should put her near the top of the list, and even in this arc she was portrayed as the alpha dog of the Gokage


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Oct 11, 2013)

RobLucciRapes said:


> *Rank these in order form strongest to weakest:*
> -Tobirama
> -Hiruzen
> -Minato
> ...



I am including hype in this...at a reasonable level though.

Minato
Tobirama
Hiruzen
Third raikage
Onoki
Yagura
A
Gaara
Mu 
Second Mizukage
Tsunade
Mei terumi
Fourth kazekage

I still think yagura having a complete control over his bijuu makes him on level only short of the really strong ones. If i was going by feats only then my list would be alot different.


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## Etherborn (Oct 11, 2013)

I'll just rank the current ones since I'm lazy.

1.) Raikage
2.) Tsuchikage
3.) Hokage
4.) Kazekage
5.) Mizukage


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## Rocky (Oct 11, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> oonoki needed gaara and naruto's help to defeat muu.  that's pretty impressive considering the impressive things oonoki pulled against madara.




Onoki was a bug to Madara, and he used none of those large scale Jinton on Muu.


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## ueharakk (Oct 11, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Onoki was a bug to Madara,


you ever seen Star Ship Troopers?



Rocky said:


> and he used none of those large scale Jinton on Muu.


how do you know?  The cube is agreeable since he only used that with Tsunade, but the laser?

Muu was matching him blast for blast, obviously if oonoki thought a bigger laser would have worked he would have done it since that would have won him the fight or if he did do it muu countered it with a laser just as large.


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## Ersa (Oct 11, 2013)

1.Hashirama
2.Minato 

1.Tobirama
2.Danzō

1.Ōnoki
2. Mū / Trollkage
3. Ei / 3rd Raikage
4. Gaara
5. Tsunade
6. Mei
7. Hiruzen


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## Rob (Oct 11, 2013)

Seems that Danzo ranks pretty high among the other Kage... Interesting. 

How does Danzo stack up against the likes of Onoki, Ay, Muu, and Trollkage?


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## Master Sephiroth (Oct 11, 2013)

Rocky said:


> He didn't really accomplish anything in the war, other than summoning Madara.



Of course not. The war arc has been all about PIS/CIS survivals for the SA until the Juubi was revived. And even still, there are plenty of those moments. 

If it weren't for Naruto arriving, Muu would have killed both Oonoki and Gaara.




> This is how the fight went down once Datclone got there:
> 
> ~Naruto attacks from behind
> ~Muu sense dodges
> ...



You forget that Muu wasn't down yet until Oonoki weighed him down with Added-Weight Technique. So if anything, it was a triple team. But thanks for telling me how the fight went down. 



> As you can see, Muu was basically soloed by a Kage Bunshin. His lack of knowledge does not change this. Most fights in the Manga are no knowledge bouts.



The Third Raikage was also "basically soloed" by a Shadow Clone. But that Shadow Clone was also Kage level by nature, being helped by a sand platform and finished by another Kage level fighter who weighed him down so he wouldn't get back up. It's not a solo. It's a triple team effort, regardless of who did the most work. 




> It is the same logic. Problem is, getting 3-man'd by Edo Itachi, KCM Naruto, and Killer Bee contributing equally >>> getting soloed by a Naruto clone with Gaara's sand platform.  Even getting soloed by Edo Itachi alone would've been more impressive.



Oonoki makes it a three team effort. Without Bee and Naruto, Itachi would have lost. Likewise, without Gaara and Oonoki, Naruto would have lost that encounter with Muu while falling straight down. Oonoki and Gaara would have lost in a 2 on 1 against Muu without Naruto. The fact that Kishi had to make Naruto's clone appear at that particular moment is impressive. He could have done the same thing against the 2nd Mizukage but he chose to have Gaara win by himself with some resourcefulness.

A similar line of thought is looking at Perfect Susano'o about to annihilate the 5 Kages and Edo Tensei stopping at that exact moment so that he wouldn't finish them off. Kishi then had to write straight CIS in to keep them alive.



Nikushimi said:


> I didn't say Muu wasn't impressive, but he IS frequently overrated.



I wouldn't know, I'm not here that often. But I'm seeing mostly good places for Muu (at least IMO).



> I don't even see why Muu vs. Itachi is considered debate-worthy, for example; just seems like another obvious Sharingan troll waiting to happen.



It would be a good fight IMO with Itachi winning.



> Invisibility is his most useful asset, but his body doesn't disappear instantly, so the opponent does have a chance to just rush him if they are close enough when the battle starts.



He could also use Muujin Mode while he's flying to gain some extra time.


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## Jad (Oct 11, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Seriously though, what's with the Muu overestimation?  He was paneled by a Naruto clone & Gaara sand platform.



Oh, that's gotta be brutal.


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## Nikushimi (Oct 11, 2013)

Eliyua23 said:


> The Flashback indicated that Minato was out of Raikage's league beucause he was flatout faster, and he still had Killer Bee marked, after their encounter Raikage believed Minato to be the savior of the world, in no way shape or form was Raikage ever even close to Minato, and that's mainly because FTG utilizes instant speed, even thought Tobirama might not be as advanced with the technique he has shown that he's at least in the ballpark with Minato as it pertains to his aptitude with the jutsu, Raikage is a linear fighter who can't match instant speed, then on top of that you have his Edo Tensei and seals which could fuck up Raikage's world, and that's just scratching the surface of what Tobirama can do, and dad isn't even as fast as his son he has zero shot against Tobirama.



Minato was able to evade the Raikage by a hair's breadth. Tobirama is slower than Minato; there's even less margin of error for him, if any. To top it off, as I pointed out already, Tobirama can't spam Hiraishin seals as easily as Minato can, so he can't divide the Raikage's location fifty ways across the entire battlefield like Minato can. In all likelihood, Tobirama gets blitzed before he can even set up a seal anywhere.

There is simply nothing in Tobirama's arsenal that can hurt the 3rd...



> I also don't see how Tsunade is being rated so low, are we talking about combat feats or factoring in everything as a shinobi, because her support/medical feats should put her near the top of the list, and even in this arc she was portrayed as the alpha dog of the Gokage



I can't really speak for the OP's intentions, but my list is based on power/combat ability, to which end support abilities like medical Ninjutsu don't count for much.



Transcendent Samurai said:


> I'll just rank the current ones since I'm lazy.
> 
> 1.) Raikage
> 2.) Tsuchikage
> ...



Wow. I actually agree with this completely.



ueharakk said:


> you ever seen Star Ship Troopers?



Oonoki is gonna bore him to death? 



RobLucciRapes said:


> How does Danzo stack up against the likes of Onoki, Ay, Muu, and Trollkage?



Wasn't that already covered by our lists?

A>Danzou>Muu/Trollkage>Oonoki


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## Ersa (Oct 11, 2013)

Mu wank is atrocious, people think he can take out the Uchiha brothers


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## Rob (Oct 11, 2013)

@Niku 

Well, yea, but all your lists differ.


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## Havoc (Oct 11, 2013)

Naruto>>>>>>


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## ueharakk (Oct 11, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> Oonoki is gonna bore him to death?



yeah, i don't think you and I will ever get along


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## Nikushimi (Oct 11, 2013)

Kyokan said:


> Mu wank is atrocious, people think he can take out the Uchiha brothers



Well in all fairness, it's not like the Sharingan has ever seen through an invisibility technique from the Stone Village before. 



RobLucciRapes said:


> @Niku
> 
> Well, yea, but all your lists differ.



My list is the correct one.


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## The World (Oct 12, 2013)

1. Tobirama at the pinnacle

2. Minato

3. Yagura(If he has 3 tails)

4. Onoki

5. Muu

6. Hiruzen

7. 3rd Raikage

8. Gaara

9. Ei

10. Trollkage

11. Tsunade

12. Danzou

13. Mei

14. 4th Kazekage

15. 3rd Kazekage puppet


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## Jagger (Oct 12, 2013)

Minato > Tobirama, btw.


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## Mercurial (Oct 12, 2013)

-Tobirama
-Minato
-Muu -Raikaugernaut -Trollkage
-Onoki -Ei
-Yagura
-Gaara
-Tsunade -Hiruzen -Mei Terumi -4th Kazekage


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## Hossaim (Oct 12, 2013)

1. Minato
2. Tobirama
3. Onoki
4. Mu
5. 3rd Raikage
6. Gaara
7. E
8. Yagura
9. Trollkage
10. Mei
11. 4th Kazekage
12. Tsunade
13. Hiruzen


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## The World (Oct 12, 2013)

Jagger said:


> Minato > Tobirama, btw.





le nope


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## Godaime Tsunade (Oct 12, 2013)

RobLucciRapes said:


> Like... Tsunade>Tobirama?



As of the last chapter, yeah. Katsuyu is _massive_.



> Ei below Gaara and Mei?



Ei might be above Gaara, though its debatable, but not Mei. Her massive suitons can keep him at bay while he's V1, and she can set up fuuton clouds for when he goes V2. She also has hidden mists for when she wants to annoy him. At close range he could beat her, but generally she's stronger.​​


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## The World (Oct 12, 2013)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> As of the last chapter, yeah. Katsuyu is _massive_.



Except she can only summon 1/10 of it......


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## Jad (Oct 12, 2013)

The World said:


> Except she can only summon 1/10 of it......



With Kyuubi Sakura helping her.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Oct 12, 2013)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> As of the last chapter, yeah. Katsuyu is _massive_.
> 
> 
> 
> Ei might be above Gaara, though its debatable, but not Mei. Her massive suitons can keep him at bay while he's V1, and she can set up fuuton clouds for when he goes V2. She also has hidden mists for when she wants to annoy him. At close range he could beat her, but generally she's stronger.​​



Ei might beat Gaara because he'd just chop through his sand, but Gaara's one dimesnsion handles everything.

Offence, defence, bijuu-esque stamina, sensory sand, scouting eyeballs, flight, doton, field control, and basically whatever you want it to do, because it can take any shape and fulfill any role at any range.  

Ei just runs fast, tanks stuff, and boomshots people he touches.  Granted, he does that at a kage level, but Gaara does more things.  I wouldn't be surprised if people rated Gaara above Ei.


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## Synn (Oct 12, 2013)

Minato
Muu
Sandaime Raikage
Tobirama
Onoki
Nidaime Mizukage
Tsunade
Ei
Gaara
Hiruzen
Mei Terumi
4th Kazekage
Yagura

I placed Yagura at the bottom of the list, because I honestly have no idea where to place him. We don't have much feats from him anyway, so it's hard to have a solid opinion on where he should be on the list. Haven't really made up my mind on him yet, either.


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## Senjuclan (Oct 12, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> Minato barely dodged the 4th, who was confident he could catch him the next time by watching for the kunai he was gonna jump to, and Minato seemed to consider this a genuine threat, because he took B hostage instead of continuing the fight. Tobirama isn't quite as fast as Minato, and he doesn't (or can't) spam Hiraishin seals all over the battlefield with kunai like Minato can, so I'd bet A could catch him.
> 
> Tobirama flat-out doesn't have anything that can hurt the 3rd. In a battle of attrition, the guy who fought 10,000 shinobi non-stop for 3 days and nights before he died isn't gonna lose.



1. Since when does confidence in one's abilities mean anything? Asuma was confident he could defeat Kisame, Jiraiya was confident he could defeat Kisame and Itachi at the same time, Madara was confident he could defeat Hashirama with kyuubi. Do you think they were right?
2. How does Minato consider A's strategy a genuine threat when A never expressed it verbally? He was thinking it. Are you saying Minato can read thoughts?
3. When did Minato barely dodge A? He strategically dodged him to gain an advantage, there was no barely anything

Neither A nor his father have anything that can bypass hiraishin. The idea that Tobirama can't spam hiraishin is illogical. He uses hiraishin with clones, he can spam clones, therefore he can spam hiraishin. Finally, in a battle of attrition between Tobirama and A's father, A's father will run out of chakra fighting edo tensei zombies not Tobirama. He can just stand there and watch. The amber seal requires a response to work, he does not have a way to force the zombies to respond.

For the OP:

Tobirama
Minato
Nidaime Mizukage
Muu
Onoki
Gaara
Sandaime Raikage
Tsunade
Ei
Yagura
Mei Terumi
Hiruzen
4th Kazekage


----------



## -JT- (Oct 12, 2013)

Minato
Tobirama
Muu
Third Raikage
Onoki
FrenchKage
Tsunade
Gaara
Mei Terumi
Ei
Hiruzen
Yagura
Fourth Kazekage


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## Enki (Oct 12, 2013)

Minato / Hashirama
Onoki
TanKage
Gaara
Tobirama / Ei
Muu
TrollKage
Fourth Kazekage
Mei Terumi
Yagura
Tsunade
Hiruzen


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Oct 12, 2013)

Minato
Tobirama
Onoki
Mu
2nd Mizukage
3rd Raikage
Ei
Gaara
Yagura
Tsunade
Hiruzen
4th Kazekage


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## Godaime Tsunade (Oct 12, 2013)

The World said:


> Except she can only summon 1/10 of it......



Nope. With both her and Sakura using just a small amount of the chakra from their Byakugou they summoned 1/10 of Katsuyu. Tsunade would need to use more chakra from her Byakugou if she wanted to summon a bigger piece by herself, its just more efficient that two Byakugou users summon Katsuyu, that way neither medic exhausts their reserves.

Also, bare in mind Tsunade and Sakura are using their Byakugou to not only summon Katsuyu, but also to channel chakra through her in order to sustain the alliance; and if you ask me thats just as, if not more energy draining than summoning Katsuyu is. At least when they summon Katsuyu they can rely on high chakra control to reduce chakra costs, whereas feeding chakra to the alliance relies solely on their quantity of chakra, control plays no part. I would argue that Tsunade and Sakura chose to summon 1/10th of Katsuyu because that was the most reasonable scale of chakra transfer they could perform on the army without using up all their chakra.

Actually, if we just apply common sense we can see that Tsunade uses barely any chakra to summon Katsuyu normally, and thats without releasing her seal. So if without releasing her seal she can summon about 1/20th of Katsuyu's full size without breaking a sweat, it would be very reasonable to assume she could summon something much larger with her seal open. Tsunade could very well use the majority of the chakra inside Byakugou to summon full size Katsuyu, or something close to that in size.



The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Ei might beat Gaara because he'd just chop through his sand, but Gaara's one dimesnsion handles everything.
> 
> Offence, defence, bijuu-esque stamina, sensory sand, scouting eyeballs, flight, doton, field control, and basically whatever you want it to do, because it can take any shape and fulfill any role at any range.
> 
> Ei just runs fast, tanks stuff, and boomshots people he touches.  Granted, he does that at a kage level, but Gaara does more things.  I wouldn't be surprised if people rated Gaara above Ei.



Indeed. I don't think there's much in it between them personally, but then I think the Gokage in general are all around the same level as one another.​​


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## FlamingRain (Oct 12, 2013)

*1.)* Tobirama
*2.)* Minato
*3./4.)* Tsunade ~ Danzō
*5.)* Ohnoki
*6.)* Ay
*7.)* Third Raikage
*8.)* Mū
*9.)* Second Mizukage
*10.)* Gaara
*11.)* Mei
*12.)* Hiruzen
*13.)* Fourth Kazekage
*14.)* Yagura


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## Turrin (Oct 12, 2013)

Going off what we know so far (as a-lot of these placements could change, especially Old Hiruzen's):

1. Minato
2. Onoki
3. Mu
4. Tobirama
5. Nindaime Mizukage
6. Yagura
7. Tsunade
8. Sandaime Raikage
9. Garaa 
10. Yondaime Kazekage
11. Yondaime Raikage
12. Mei  
13. Old Hiruzen

Edit: Here is how the match ups would go -- 

Minato Matches


*Spoiler*: __ 



Minato vs Onoki - Onoki could defend against FTG with flight and Doton for a bit and probably defend raw power attacks like Bijuu Bombs with Jinton for a bit. But Onoki is probably not going to be able to land a blow on Minato due to Minato's speed, KB, and S-T Barrier. Weight  control could be problematic for Minato, but even if he gets weighed down he can still teleport with FTG , so that wouldn't be the death of him. Only real danger here for Minato is if Onoki pulls massive cube Jinton or drops an island (or some other massive peace of topography) on his head; Island drop Minato should have a chance to bust whatever Onoki attempts to drop with Bijuu Bomb or mad dash out of the way with Shunshin + thrown FTG Kunai. Pretty much same deal with Cube Jinton, except Bijuu Bomb probably doesn't work. Anyway the battle should go evenly for awhile, but eventually Onoki's stamina starts fading and at that point Minato should be able to finish him

Minato vs Mu - Due to Minato's BM Shroud Mu can't really ambush Minato with a Kunai. He has to appear to use Jinton to have any chance of hurting Minato. Mu could try and use stealth to get behind Minato or bellow Minato (w/ Doton) to release a Jinton beam w/o Minato realizing, but I'd assume that Minato could sense Mu's Killer Intent once he released invis to use Jinton and react that way. Heck Minato can even react at the last second due to his sheer speed and FTG. So chances aren't good for Mu hitting Minato that way. Mu could try and trick Minato into thinking he's dead through using body splitting and than ambush Minato, which he might actually be able to successfully do some damage that way, but even if it's a wound typically fatal internal kyuubi chakra would heal Minato. Than with Mu split Minato takes him down rather easily. 

Minato vs Tobirama - BM Minato is basically a better version of Tobirama. The only thing Tobirama has that could hope to do something with be ET, but that would depend on the type of ET he has which we don't know. So for not BM Minato eventually mops up Tobirama's FTG tags and than takes him down.

Minato vs Nindaime Mizukage - Minato should find the clam's general location with Finger Detection and use BM Shroud to defend himself until than. Once he finds the clam and probably TrollKage as well, he nukes both of them with Bijuu Bomb; thee end.

Minato vs Yagura - Basically saw BM Naruto take down Yagura (+ other Bijuu), BM Minato should do the same.

Minato vs Tsunade - Tsunade's Regen Tactics aren't saving her from  Bijuu Bombs

Minato vs Sandaime - Sandaime's durability isn't saving him from Bijuu Bombs

Minato vs Gaara - Gaara's Shield isn't saving him from Bijuu Bombs

Minato vs Yondaime Kazekage - Same deal as Gaara, but worse

Minato vs Yondaime Raiakge - Minato owned him once, just replace Kunai attack with Bijuu Bomb and you have the answer to who wins this match

Minato vs Mei - Shroud protect Minato from any acid. Bijuu bomb finishes her

Minato vs Old Hiruzen - So far Old Hiruzen's god nothing to defend Bijuu Bomb 

.




Onoki Matches 


*Spoiler*: __ 



Onoki vs Mu - As illustrated in the manga this would be a tough match for Onoki, but since Mu won't have unlimited stamina here we can expect it to be a bit tougher on Mu as well. Additionally since post Stone-Will Onoki is able to conjure absolute massive Jinton and lift massive pieces of Topography I think Onoki with sheer AOE could eventually hit invisible Mu. Definitely a close match though

Onoki vs Tobirama - Tough match all around. Tobirama would have a tough time hitting a flying Onoki, while Onoki would struggle to hit Tobirama with FTG/KB at his disposal. However due to Onoki's massive AOE Jutsu as well as weight control I think his chances of hitting Tobirama are better than visa versa.

Onoki vs Nindaime Mizukage - Can defend himself with flight and Iwa Bushin while Mist is in place, since Mizukage really doesn't have any long range Jutsu. Onoki's massive Jinton should blow up a big enough area to hit the clam and probably take down Mizukage as well.

Onoki vs Yagura - Yagura in human form gets quickly overwhelmed by Onoki and forced into Bijuu Form. In Bijuu Form Onoki's Jinton counters Bijuu Bombs and weight control will bind Sanbi. From there bound Sanbi can be taken out with Jinton or turned to stone.

Onoki vs Tsunade - Tsunade's Regen Tactics aren't saving her from Jinton

Onoki vs Sandaime Raikage - Sandaime's durability isn't saving him from Jinton

Onoki vs Gaara - Gaara's Shield isn't saving him from Jinton

Onoki vs Yondaime Kazekage - same as Gaara, but worse

Onoki vs vs Yondaime Raiakge - Yondaime Raikage will be tough to pin down, but at the same time Yondaime Raikage can't do anything to flying Onoki. Raikage also has no way to detect Onoki underground, so using Doton tactics Onoki should be able to eventually tag him with a weight alteration slowing him down and than Jinton finishes him. Onoki also has Fuuton so that may be another option to taking away his shroud and slowing him down. Worse comes to worse massive AOE Jinton should take care of him.

Onoki vs Mei - Flight protect him from the mist, Jinton finishes her

Onoki vs Old Hiruzen - Jinton finishes Hiruzen





Mu Matches:


*Spoiler*: __ 



Mu vs Tobirama - Tobirama can use KB to prevent getting Invis ambushed, but even Tobirama would have his limits of how long he can keep KB in place. At that point Tobirama's only option would be to let Mu hit him and than at that moment blow them both up with Tandem Explosive tags. So a draw is possible, but other than in that somewhat less likely scenario Mu probably eventually wins by ambushing Tobirama.

Mu vs Nindaime Mizukage - Happened in the manga and they killed each other resulting in a draw. However Mu's abilities are generally better than the Mizukage's, I think this is simply a bad match up for Mu and perhaps under different conditions he could win. 

Mu vs Yagura - Yagura with no way to detect Mu will have to go V2 or full Bijuu to protect himself. From there Mu should still be able to get behind him and blast off a Jinton that way, finishing him. If not than Mu could always convince Yagura he was dead with his body splitting and than kill him with invis ambush after Yagura has gone back to human form.

Mu vs Tsunade - Tsunade's Regen Tactics aren't saving her from Jinton

Mu vs Sandaime Raikage - vs Sandaime Raikage - Sandaime's durability isn't saving him from Jinton

Mu vs Gaara - Gaara's Shield isn't saving him from Jinton

Mu vs Yondaime Kazekage - same as Gaara, but worse

Mu vs Yondaime Raiakge - Gets behind him with Invis than uses Jinton outside Raikage's LOS, killing him that way. Ether that or uses body splitting to convince Raikage he's dead, than invis ambushes Raikage when he drops his raiton armor. 

Mu vs Mei - Flight protect him from the mist, Jinton finishes her

Mu vs Old Hiruzen - Jinton finishes Hiruzen





Tobirama Matches:


*Spoiler*: __ 



Tobirama vs Nindaime Mizukage - KB and FTG should keep him safe long enough to find the general location of the clam with Finger detection. Can than use AOE Tandem Explosive to take down the clam. If Mizukage survives he can evade Joki Boi and eventually slap the Mizukage with a tandem explosive tag of his very own.

Tobirama vs Yagura - If FTG doesn't blitz Yagura in the beginning of the match before he pulls out his Bijuu mode, than Tandem Explosive Tags + FTG should allow Tobirama to eventually take Yagura down, while he defends Yagura's attacks with FTG, Sensing, and KB.

Tobirama vs Tsunade - Regen Tactics aren't really going to work against FTG + Tandem Explosive tags.

Tobirama vs Sandaime Raikage - Really doubt Raikage will hold up against multiple Tandem Explosive Tags. If he does than Tobirama can use the ET ritual on him to bypass his durability. Or keep him caught in a barrier until he starves to death. 

Tobirama vs Gaara - FTG + Tandem Explosive Tags defeat Gaara's Shield

Tobirama vs Yondaime Kazekage - Same as garaa, but worse

Tobirama vs Yondaime Raikage - Pretty Much how the Minato duel went, just replace Kunai with Tandem Explosive Tags, and that's GG Raikage

Tobirama vs Mei - Finger Detection should allow Tobirama to find Mei's general location in the mist and than finish her with FTG Tactics or Tandem Explosive Tags. FTG should be able to warp Tobirama out of the Mist if it turns acidic fast enough to avoid dying.

Tobirama vs Old Hiruzen - Really hasn't shown any way he can deal with Tandem Explosive Tags and FTG


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## Dominus (Oct 12, 2013)

*1.* Minato
*2.* Tobirama
*3.* Ōnoki
*4.* Mū
*5.* Second Mizukage
*6.* Third Raikage
*7.* Fourth Raikage
*8.* Yagura
*9.* Gaara
*10.* Tsunade
*11.* Mei
*12.* Fourth Kazekage
*13.* Hiruzen


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## Rocky (Oct 12, 2013)

Base Minato & Tobirama are interchangeable. Minato is better at Shunshin/Hiraishin (whichever Tobirama was talking about), but Tobirama is far more destructive with the exploding tag chain. From there, they're equally versatile. I don't hold Tobirama's primitive Edo Tensei over the Frog Contract, or his Suitonjutsu over Minato's top grade Fuinjutsu or Rasengan.


In this thread however, Minato has the Kyuubi cloak, and it's obvious he's above Tobirama with that.


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## Turrin (Oct 12, 2013)

*Kage Matches Cont...*

Nindaime Mizukage Matches:


*Spoiler*: __ 



Troll vs Yagura - Really Close Match. Both can kill each other. Troll could kill Yagura early on with  Genjutsu ambush or late game with repeated Joki Boi assaults while under the cover of the clam, while Yagura could kill Troll with a lucky Bijuu Bomb hitting the clam. Had a really hard time placing one of these guys above the other actually, however I give Troll the edge as I think he is ever so slightly more versatile.

Troll vs Tsunade - Tsunade really doesn't have a counter for the mist. Maybe she could summon Katsuya and have it split up and eventually some one stick onto the clam, than she could take it out that way. But by than Troll should have more than enough time to get her. Another problem is that I believe Troll can turns his body to water like Suigetsu with Suika no Jutsu, so I don't see Tsunade's physical attacks working against Troll. Her regen probably isn't going to work against  something as destructive as Joki Boi. Her one chance would be to summon a large amount of Katsuya and have it spam tons of acid, but i'm not sure how Acid would perform against Suika no Jutsu ether, and overall I still see Troll having better odds of hitting Tsunade first due to clam Genjutsu.

Troll vs Sandaime Raikage - Sandiame has no way to see through Genjutsu, he gets trolled

Troll vs Gaara - Gaara can find the Clam, but in the manga cannon it did take him a considerable amount of time and with Trolls knowledge on Gaara, I don't really think he'd mess around as much as he did the first time, so he could easily kill Gaara' before the clam is dealt with. Another problem is Gaara won't have his dads Gold Dust to stop Joki Boi, so I think Gaara baring having such a topographic advantage would loose to Joki Boi if nothing else.

Troll vs Yondaime Kazekage -  Kazekage has no way to see through Genjutsu, he gets trolled

Troll vs Yondaime Raikage - Raikage has no way to see through Genjutsu, he gets trolled

Troll vs Mei - Mei has no way to see through Genjutsu, she gets trolled

Troll vs Old Hiruzen - If smell works (which I don't think so since Genjutsu is suppose to effect all 5 sense) than he might be able to do something to the clam, but he's really got nothing on Joki Boi ether way





Yagura Matches:


*Spoiler*: __ 



Yagura vs Tsunade - She'd put up a good fight until Bijuu Bomb came into play, at which point that is her limit. Maybe she could win if she early on convinces Yagura she is dead and than ambushes him, but that is a fairly unlikely scenario.

Yagura vs Sandaime Raikage - Sandaime's durability isn't saving him from Bijuu Bombs

Yagura vs Gaara - Gaara shield isn't saving him from Bijuu Bombs

Yagura vs Yondaime Kazekage - Bijuu Bombs

Yagura vs Yondaime Raikage - Yagura should be able to take him down by virtue of the sheer AOE of Bijuu Bombs. However if that's not the case he can also get in close to Raikage in V2, take Raikage's attack and than touch him so he can incase Raikage with coral stopping Raikage's movements. Than finish him off

Yagura vs Mei - Bijuu Bombs

Yagura vs Old Hiruzen - Bijuu Bombs




Tsunade Matches:


*Spoiler*: __ 



Tsunade vs Sandaime Raikage - Due to Byakugo Tsunade could actually take Sandaime Raikage's attack and than use that as a chance to knock his block off. Sandaime is durable enough where he probably won't go down to the first punch, but Tsunade can use her nerve jamming ability to render him immobile and than finish him off with Reverse Shosen (Acid or pounding him to oblivion). Also Sandaime trying to evade tons of Acidic spits at the same time as evade Tsunade's attacks will be rough even for someone with his speed and Katsuya can latch onto him or melt (as we saw last chapter) to bind him and slow him down. Punching the ground can also be used to leave raikage airborn and open to attack.

Tsunade vs Gaara - Tsunade wins via Katsuya and Acid spam overwhelming Gaara's Sand

Tsunade vs Yondaime Kazekage - Same as Gaara, but worse

Tsunade vs Yondaime Raikage - Pretty much the same deal as Sandaime Raikage, but he'll go down easier. 

Tsunade vs Mei - Byakugo should allow her to survive Acid, long enough where if she stumble into it unaware she'll be able to escape. Katsuya does the rest of the work and finishes off Mei, unless Mei is immune to Katsuya's acid. In which case this could become a very difficult match

Tsunade vs Old Hiruzen - Katsuya is too much for the old guy to handle and so is Tsunade in CQC given his speed being hampered by Old age

.




Sandaime Raikage Matches -


*Spoiler*: __ 



Sandaime vs Gaara - I'm basically assuming Sandaime level Black Lighting can break through Gaara's defense, if it can't than Gaara would probably win this eventually through virtue of flight, but I think it can. 

Sandaime vs Yondaime Kazekage - Same as Gaara, but worse

Sandiame vs Yondaime - Basically both will just be beating the shit out of each other, but Sandaime has greater endurance so he wins

Sandiame vs Mei - Sandaime's durability should allow him to tank the acid long enough to escape and Black Lighting should finish Mei off from a distance.

Sandaime vs Hiruzen - Sandaime's CQC is too much for Hiruzen to handle in his old age





Gaara Matches:


*Spoiler*: __ 




Gaara vs Yondaime Kazekage - Happened in the manga; Gaara won.

Gaara vs Yondaime Raikage - Yondaime Can't hit him do to flight and we saw Gaara's sand block his attack (+Enton). Gaara will eventually grind enough sand to generate large enough AOE attacks to grab him and than seal him.

Garaa vs Mei - Suna Armor and Sand shield should protect him if he happens to stumble into the mist. Gaara will eventually grind enough sand to Sand Tsunami her to death regardless of the Mist she puts between them

Gaara vs Old Hiruzen - Sand Shield defends Hiruzen's attacks until he's ground enough sand, than he overwhelms.





Yondaime Kazekage Matches:


*Spoiler*: __ 



Yondaime Kazege vs Yondaime Raikage   - Honestly if Yondaime Kazekage flies he probably wins, but since his dust isn't quite fast as Gaara's and he has no knowledge of Raikage, hopefully Raikage will be able to get him before he does. Though if Yondaime pulls a Gold Dust Tsunami out that could also down Raikage, so actually Yondaime Kazekage has the better chance to win here.

Yondaime Kazekage vs Mei - Pretty much same as Gaara vs Mei

Yondaime Kazekage vs Hiruzen - Preety much the same as Gaara vs Hiruzen




Yondaime Raikage Matches:


*Spoiler*: __ 



Yondaime Raikage vs Mei - Honestly Mei would be a touch match for Raikage with Mist to block his LOS and opening him up to attack, but I think his durability and reflexes will allow him to evade enough to survive. Ultimately Raikage will ether blitz before Mei pulls out the mist or it becomes a stamina contest which Raikage wins. Mei's Fuuton is the only thing that might change this, but that's not enough to consider her winning likely at this point.

Yondaime Raikage vs Old Hiruzen - Honestly Raikage could have a hard time getting to Hiruzen through Enma Cage. Hiruzen blocking LOS with Large Katons and than using KB Tactics could be problematic as well. The only issue is Hiruzen really has nothing that can down Raikage, except Shiki Fuujin and getting in that close with Raikage is probably too much to ask of an Old Hiruzen.




Mei Matches:


*Spoiler*: __ 



Mei vs Old Hiruzen - Hiruzen with his sense of smell can fight in the mist, but he has no defense against Acidic Mist. Hiruzen can probably defend Mei's suitons to a certain extent with his Dotons, though given the size of Mei's Suitons I wouldn't think he could do so completely. Mei can counter Hiruzen Katons though. Hiruzen may be able to win if he can get in close, but the problem is most times this battle gets played out if Hiruzen gets in close Lava or Acid would finish him before he could finish Mei.


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## Rob (Oct 12, 2013)

Miyamoto Musashi said:


> i love how the majority place Minato above Tobirama as if Minato could control the fox prior to his death



@Everyone

Is this true? 

I wasn't sure if Minato could use KCM back when he was alive. 
If not, then it's restricted, as I'm talking about the living versions of the Kage... not Edo. 

@Turrin

About Muu and Onoki beating Tobirama... 
Couldn't FTG be a good counter for Jinton?


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## Turrin (Oct 12, 2013)

RobLucciRapes said:


> @Everyone
> 
> Is this true?
> 
> ...


If KCM and BM are restricted I'd still place Minato above Tobirama by a bit, but it would be much closer. Mu and Onoki might be able to beat Minato than, but it would be close.

FTG is a good counter to Jinton, but Onoki can create such massive Jinton that Tobirama would have to have FTG markers quite a distance away to escape it fully and I don't know what the ruling is on having FTG markers set up in advanced. Like does Tobirama have access to all the FTG makers he's ever place in his life, which are probably all around the world. And if he was to teleport to a FTG marker miles away from the battlefield would that be legal or would it count as retreating and losing that way. If that's legal than Tobirama and Minato would draw with Onoki, since they could teleport miles away, come back, rinse and repeat, infinitely with no victor. Which seems a bit silly to me, but there you go.

As for Mu I never though his level of Jintn would work, but rather it would be his Invis that is problematic.


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## Alex Payne (Oct 12, 2013)

Danzo(Koto)
Tobirama(with best Edo Tensei)
Minato(Alive)
Hiruzen(Young, pure hype)
Yagura(Perfect Jin hype)
Danzo(w/o Koto)
Onoki
Mu
Nidaime Mizukage
3rd Raikage
Gaara
Tsunade
4th Raikage
Mei
Hiruzen(Old, feats)
4th Kazekage


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## Kyu (Oct 12, 2013)

1. Minato
2. Tobirama
3. Third Raikage
4. Yagura (full control over Isobu)
5. Ei
6. Mū/Second Mizukage
7. Tsunade
8. Gaara
9. Mei
10. Hiruzen
11. Fourth Kazekage


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## Rob (Oct 12, 2013)

Seems like Kotoamatsukami is an insta-win


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## Nikushimi (Oct 12, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Base Minato & Tobirama are interchangeable. Minato is better at Shunshin/Hiraishin (whichever Tobirama was talking about), but Tobirama is far more destructive with the exploding tag chain. From there, they're equally versatile. I don't hold Tobirama's primitive Edo Tensei over the Frog Contract, or his Suitonjutsu over Minato's top grade Fuinjutsu or Rasengan.
> 
> 
> In this thread however, Minato has the Kyuubi cloak, and it's obvious he's above Tobirama with that.



I disagree that Minato and Tobirama are interchangeable. As I pointed out earlier, Minato is equipped with tags wrapped around kunai that bear his Hiraishin mark; he can spam them all over the battlefield with a flick of his wrist. Tobirama actually needs to go place his hand on a surface just to put down one seal that he can only teleport to after he's moved back away from it again. There's a very clear difference in their effectiveness with that Jutsu.


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## Bonly (Oct 12, 2013)

RobLucciRapes said:


> @Everyone
> 
> Is this true?
> 
> ...



When he was alive he sealed the chakra inside of himself and said his body was numb, then he got stabbed and sealed Kurama in Naruto and died. So he might of had the potential to reach KCM but he never got the chance.


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## Rocky (Oct 12, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> I disagree that Minato and Tobirama are interchangeable. As I pointed out earlier, Minato is equipped with tags wrapped around kunai that bear his Hiraishin mark; he can spam them all over the battlefield with a flick of his wrist. Tobirama actually needs to go place his hand on a surface just to put down one seal that he can only teleport to after he's moved back away from it again. There's a very clear difference in their effectiveness with that Jutsu.




I said that Minato was better at teleporting Jutsu. That wasn't what makes them interchangeable. One could say that Minato is bit better because of his more impressive feats I suppose.


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## Rocky (Oct 12, 2013)

Turrin said:


> If that's legal than Tobirama and Minato would draw with Onoki, since they could teleport miles away, come back, rinse and repeat, infinitely with no victor. Which seems a bit silly to me, but there you go.




Except Onoki will run out of Chakra spamming Jinton....

You keep overlooking the fact that the Gokage had elite medical support in their battle with Madara. Without a medic, Onoki ran out of Chakra against Nindaime Mizukage.


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## Jagger (Oct 12, 2013)

Miyamoto Musashi said:


> i love how the majority place Minato above Tobirama as if Minato could control the fox prior to his death


Even so, I believe Base Minato is sightly better than Tobirama, I believe. His Edo Tensei's feats don't exist at all.


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## Turrin (Oct 12, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Except Onoki will run out of Chakra spamming Jinton....
> 
> You keep overlooking the fact that the Gokage had elite medical support in their battle with Madara. Without a medic, Onoki ran out of Chakra against Nindaime Mizukage.


I'm talking about a scenario were Minato or Tobirama can't teleport back. I.E. Onoki uses massive Jinton to blow up the field, Minato teleports away, but markers are destroyed. Minato has to travel on foot back to the battlefield. 



> You keep overlooking the fact that the Gokage had elite medical support in their battle with Madara. Without a medic, Onoki ran out of Chakra against Nindaime Mizukage.



1. Onoki Carried Turtle Island all the way to the battle-front. Than proceeded to join in the long-range divisions battle against the Edo Kages, which when on for roughly 24 hours prior to to Garaa and Onoki directly engaging the Edo Kages. Who knows what level of exhaustion that took on Onoki.

2. Onoki than fought a prolonged duel with Mu (who was intentionally trying to get Onoki to waste his chakra), where Onoki used both clones and a ton of large Jinton blasts from the looks of this  page (Just look at how close). 

3. Than Onoki used more Jutsu against the Mizukage

4. Than Onoki used more Jutsu against Madara including weight altering the entire meteor

And he still wasn't completely out of chakra.

So Onoki has a ton of chakra.


----------



## Rocky (Oct 12, 2013)

Turrin said:


> I'm talking about a scenario were Minato or Tobirama can't teleport back. I.E. Onoki uses massive Jinton to blow up the field, Minato teleports away, but markers are destroyed. Minato has to travel on foot back to the battlefield.




He could probably do that against Tobirama. That would be a loss on Tobi's part though. Having no quick way to return to the battlefield (on foot is not quick) is BFR. 

Onoki doesn't have the AoE to eradicate all of Minato;s tags though considering the distance he spread them out against the Juubi.



> 3. Than Onoki used more Jutsu against the Mizukage




This is where he lost the ability to use Jinton, correct? 

I'm not saying Onoki has terrible Chakra reserves, but it isn't more than Minato or Tobirama. Even if he did, a large Jinton is a much more taxing technique than small Hiraishin.


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## Turrin (Oct 12, 2013)

Rocky said:


> He could probably do that against Tobirama. That would be a loss on Tobi's part though. Having no quick way to return to the battlefield (on foot is not quick) is BFR.


Yeah, which is why I asked the OP a ruling for BFR



> Onoki doesn't have the AoE to eradicate all of Minato;s tags though considering the distance he spread them out against the Juubi.


I don't really care to debate Onoki vs Base Minatro, because I think it's silly as BM Minato wins anyway, and I do count BM as part of Minato's power. So I don't think it really matters if a weaker Minato may or may not loose to Onoki, because Minato at his best wins.



> This is where he lost the ability to use Jinton, correct?
> 
> I'm not saying Onoki has terrible Chakra reserves, but it isn't more than Minato or Tobirama. Even if he did, a large Jinton is a much more taxing technique than small Hiraishin.


Actually Minato nor Tobirama have displayed anywhere near Onoki's chakra reserves (w/o Yin Kumara). Onoki had the chakra to effect an entire F-ing meteor after all the other shit he did that day. 

I agree Jinton is more taxing than FTG. However again remember I was talking about a BFR scenario.


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## Senjuclan (Oct 13, 2013)

Base Minato is simply inferior to Tobirama. I look at ninjas based on (1) offense (2) defense and (3) support ninjutsu. On top of this, I consider chakra and intelligence.

Tobirama has better offense than Minato in base (Edo tensei, explosions, suiton vs rasengan and summons). Their defense is almost equal. People forget that Tobirama could spam clones and therefore can spam hiraishin with clones. While Minato may have more dexterity with kunai, Tobirama has sensing and hiraishin. So, they are close but Minato is slightly superior given his superior shunshin. Finally, Tobirama has better support ninjutsu. He is a better sensor by far. He can create more clones.

Also, he clearly more chakra (fighting a full day against Madara and Uchiha and being able to teleport two bijuu and two bijuudama without strain while Minato was tired after teleporting kyuubi only). Also, as far as battle tactics, most objective readers of the manga would agree that Tobirama is superior.

Taking it all together, there is no way Minato is superior to Tobirama without KCM.


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## Ƶero (Oct 13, 2013)

Tobirama is simply inferior to base Minato. Tobirama has stated that his shunshin and Hiraishin are inferior to Minato's. Minato is faster, stronger and smarter. Let's not forget the most important thing Minato has over Tobirama, he didnt die to a bunch of fodders.


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## Dominus (Oct 13, 2013)

Ƶero said:


> Tobirama is simply inferior to base Minato. Tobirama has stated that his shunshin and Hiraishin are inferior to Minato's.



Only Shunshin, with Kurama's chakra he's simply able to teleport more objects/people.



> Minato is faster, stronger and smarter. Let's not forget the most important thing Minato has over Tobirama, he didnt die to a bunch of fodders.



He's only faster, how do you know Minato wouldn't die against them when we don't even know how strong they were nor how they defeated Tobirama. I could also say Minato died to a nail of his 14-year-old student's pet.


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## Ƶero (Oct 13, 2013)

Dark Prince of Awesome said:


> Only Shunshin, with Kurama's chakra he's simply able to teleport more objects/people.
> 
> 
> 
> He's only faster, how do you know Minato wouldn't die against them when we don't even know how strong they were nor how they defeated Tobirama. I could also say Minato died to a nail of his 14-year-old student's pet.



Tobirama didnt have the brains to put a seal onto a kunai whereas Minato did. Therefore Minato is smarter.

Minato was the MVP of a war where he likely solo'd countless fodder since he earned a 'flee on sight' order. Minato would decimate 20 fodder. That 14 year old couldv'e solo'd them too. Minato didn't even have to die, he chose to sacrifice himself. If you're comparing 20 jonin fodders to Kyuubi then you're a lost cause.


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## Dominus (Oct 13, 2013)

Ƶero said:


> Tobirama didnt have the brains to put a seal onto a kunai whereas Minato did. Therefore Minato is smarter.



  


*Spoiler*: __ 










> Minato was the MVP of a war where he likely solo'd countless fodder since he earned a 'flee on sight' order. Minato would decimate 20 fodder.



How do you know how strong they were?



> That 14 year old couldv'e solo'd them too. Minato didn't even have to die, he chose to sacrifice himself. If you're comparing 20 jonin fodders to Kyuubi then you're a lost cause.



So did Tobirama and I could say the same thing, since you're comparing those shinobi that Minato defeated to those that defeated Tobirama.


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## Alita (Oct 13, 2013)

RobLucciRapes said:


> Just wondering how the NBD ranks all the Kage together (Baring Hashirama of course)
> 
> *Rank these in order form strongest to weakest:*
> -Tobirama
> ...


0.Minato
1.Yagura
2.Garra(Assuming he has access to his bijuu.)
3.Tobirama
4.Muu
5.Onoki
6.3rd raikage
7.4th raikage
8.Hiruzen
9.2nd mizukage
10.Tsunade
11.Mei

Didn't include 4th kazekage because it's very difficult to rank him. By feats he's weaker than mei but by hype he beat a bijuu which makes him more powerful than almost anyone here.


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## Dominus (Oct 13, 2013)

Alita54 said:


> 0.Minato
> 1.Yagura
> 2.Garra(Assuming he has access to his bijuu.)
> 3.Tobirama
> ...



How are Yagura and Gaara stronger than Tobirama?


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## Rob (Oct 13, 2013)

@Alita

Are you trolling? 

... 

Why on earth would Gaara have access to Shukaku?


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## ueharakk (Oct 13, 2013)

Senjuclan said:


> Base Minato is simply inferior to Tobirama. I look at ninjas based on (1) offense (2) defense and (3) support ninjutsu. On top of this, I consider chakra and intelligence.
> 
> Tobirama has better offense than Minato in base (Edo tensei, explosions, suiton vs rasengan and summons).


wouldn't that depend on who Tobirama has as edo tenseis?



Senjuclan said:


> Their defense is almost equal. People forget that Tobirama could spam clones and therefore can spam hiraishin with clones. While Minato may have more dexterity with kunai, Tobirama has sensing and hiraishin. So, they are close but Minato is slightly superior given his superior shunshin. Finally, Tobirama has better support ninjutsu. He is a better sensor by far. He can create more clones.


How is he a better sensor?  Minato repeats his best sensing feat.  Summons are support as well.



Senjuclan said:


> Also, he clearly more chakra (fighting a full day against Madara and Uchiha and being able to teleport two bijuu and two bijuudama without strain while Minato was tired after teleporting kyuubi only). Also, as far as battle tactics, most objective readers of the manga would agree that Tobirama is superior.


Really?  Tobirama is an edo tensei, Minato was a living person, had used his chakra to suppress the kyuubi, had fought Tobi, teleported a bijuu-sized dama, summoned bunta and then summoned 100% Kurama who's way way bigger than 2 50% kuramas.  That craps on Tobirama's feat in the war.

Fighting for a day isn't really relevant when you have hashirama on your side, when people like kakashi can fight for longer, when you have your entire clan on your side and potentially have medics as well.



Senjuclan said:


> Taking it all together, there is no way Minato is superior to Tobirama without KCM.


not really, the only thing that would put Tobirama over him would be if Tobi has some good edo tenseis.


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## Senjuclan (Oct 13, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> wouldn't that depend on who Tobirama has as edo tenseis?
> 
> How is he a better sensor?  Minato repeats his best sensing feat.  Summons are support as well.
> 
> ...



1. Tobirama uses edo tensei differently, not just to borrow their skills. So, regardless, he has an infinite source of explosions. Furthermore, the stronger the zombie, the bigger the gap between Tobirama and Minato
2. Tobirama is a better sensor because he can sense chakra as well as use finger tracking. He simply outclasses Minato
3. Edo tensei only have as much chakra as they had but that chakra replenishes. Check Muu and jinton for example. 
4. 2 kyuubi with 2 bijuudama one of whom contained senjutsu is > one kyuubi and one bijuudama
5. Hashirama was busy fighting Madara not helping his clan. Kakashi and them did not fight for a day straight. They stopped fighting at night. Kakashi has had his chakra replenished how many times now?
6. He does not need good edo zombies to be above Minato. An inferior Edo is a better offense than anything Minato has.


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## Turrin (Oct 13, 2013)

Base Minato and Tobirama are equivalent, if not Minato edging it. 

In terms of FTG usage, both have a similar prowess with it, however Minato creating pre-made FTG-Kunai gives him greater speed with distributing FTG markers across the battlefield. Minato superior speed with Shunshin also helps in this regard as well. So Minato should edge out Tobirama a bit in FTG usage.

In terms of summons it's hard to say. Tobirama's Tandem Explosive Tags combined with Edo's is a very lethal combo, however is it better than the overall versatility that Kuchiyose Toads offers Minato, probably not. So than it would come down to the amount of Tensei and level of the Tensei Tobirama could typically pull out in any given battle, something we don't know the answer to at this point. So I think as of right now it's impossible to say who has the better summons.

In terms of CQC Minato's reflexes are superior, but Tobirama makes up with that through probably having superior sensing. Tobirama seems like he'd be very skilled with Kenjutsu, but Minato is of course very skilled with Kunai. Tobirama is physically stronger than Minato, but Minato is faster than Tobirama with superior Shunshin. so overall I'd say both are roughly equivalent in CQC, from what we've seen.

In terms of detection Minato has shown the same finger detection method as Tobirama and has reacted to attacks effectively outside of his LOS. There is also some possibility that Minato is also a sensor type. However overall Tobirama has the more confirmed sensor feats at this point, so I'd put him above Minato in this regard.

In terms of other Ninjutsu. Tobirama displays high mastery in nature alteration, but Minato displays at least equally as high mastery in shape recomposition. Both are proficient with KB and both can obviously use Kekkai Ninjutsu on high level. Tandem Explosive Tags are great, however Minato's Uzamaki Fuuinjutsu puts him above Tobirama in this regard, and gives him access to more effective last resort techniques as well as greater utility overall.

So I think both Minato and Tobirama excel each other in certain areas. Tobirama is better at detection via Sensing, but Minato is a bit better at FTG and better Ninjutsu techs (outside Kuchiyose). So I'd say Minato is slightly better than Tobirama as thing stand. That could change tho and I would have no problem with it one way or another.


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## Kazekage94 (Oct 13, 2013)

OP said strongest. Clearly Tsunade is number 1


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## eyeknockout (Oct 13, 2013)

RobLucciRapes said:


> Just wondering how the NBD ranks all the Kage together (Baring Hashirama of course)
> 
> *Rank these in order form strongest to weakest:*
> -Tobirama
> ...



the bolded makes no sense at all, so i'm not going to do it.

ranking

-Tobirama
-minato
-muu
-2nd miz
-raikagenaut
-onoki
-hiruzen
-A
-gaara
-yagura
-4th kazekage
-mei/tsunade


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## Elite Uchiha (Oct 13, 2013)

Minato


Everyone else


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## ueharakk (Oct 13, 2013)

Senjuclan said:


> 1. Tobirama uses edo tensei differently, not just to borrow their skills. So, regardless, he has an infinite source of explosions. Furthermore, the stronger the zombie, the bigger the gap between Tobirama and Minato


explosions have already been taken into account as part of tobirama's offensive. 



Senjuclan said:


> 2. Tobirama is a better sensor because he can sense chakra as well as use finger tracking. He simply outclasses Minato


based on?



Senjuclan said:


> 3. Edo tensei only have as much chakra as they had but that chakra replenishes. Check Muu and jinton for example.


which means Tobirama's feats in the war don't stack, it means that all of his feats are standalone in regards to his total living chakra capacity



Senjuclan said:


> 4. 2 kyuubi with 2 bijuudama one of whom contained senjutsu is > one kyuubi and one bijuudama


  Space/time techniques depend on the SIZE or VOLUME of what they are warping, it doesn't matter if Tobirama warped 2 kyuubis or if one of them was made up of senjutsu, it's still isn't better than warping 100% Kurama if 100% Kurama is much bigger than both Kyuubis.

And he didn't warp 2 bijuudamas he warped one giant senjutsu rasengan which wasn't larger than another 50% kurama, nor larger than the bijuudama Minato warped away.

And of course you are still ignoring all the chakra intensive things minato did like fighting obito, holding kurama within kushina's seal, and summoning bunta.  So no.



Senjuclan said:


> 5. Hashirama was busy fighting Madara not helping his clan. Kakashi and them did not fight for a day straight. They stopped fighting at night. Kakashi has had his chakra replenished how many times now?



Hashirama and his clan were fighting Madara therefore he was helping his clan.... FIGHT MADARA.  That means that if tobirama or his clansmen get tired, they are free to go and get recovered while madara still has to deal with Hashirama and the rest of the clan.




Senjuclan said:


> 6. He does not need good edo zombies to be above Minato. An inferior Edo is a better offense than anything Minato has.


Sure he does.   Inferior edos having a better offense than minato in no way means that Tobirama is above Minato.


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## WT (Oct 13, 2013)

RobLucciRapes said:


> *Rank these in order form strongest to weakest:*
> 
> 1) Minato
> 2) Tobirama
> ...



Tsunade however will be extremely useful.


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## ? (Oct 13, 2013)

Minato (living and Edo)>>>Tobirama> The rest


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## Saru (Oct 13, 2013)

Hashirama

Tobirama
Minato 
Danzō


3rd Raikage
A
Ōnoki
Gaara
Tsunade
Mū 

Hiruzen
Yagura
Trollkage
Mei
4th Kazekage 

I ranked them and broke 'em up into three groups. It still seems early to be doing this when all of the Hokages and likely the other living Kages still have feats to come. I mean, we're almost (I think) at the end of their respective battle records. It couldn't hurt to wait a little longer.

UPDATE: forgot Hashirama and had A and Raikagenaut in the wrong spot.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Oct 13, 2013)

1. Muu/Tobirama
2. Minato
3. Oonoki
4. Nidaime Mizukage
5. Sandaime Raikage/Yagura
6. Tsunade
7. Ei/Gaara/Mei
8. Hiruzen (feats)
9. Yondaime Kazekage


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## Senjuclan (Oct 13, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> explosions have already been taken into account as part of tobirama's offensive.



The point is that Edomite tensei makes them infinite. It does not matter what the strength of the zombie is. He will always be extremely useful



ueharakk said:


> based on?



Did you really not read my comments? Minato is not a chakra sensor while Tobirama is one of the best chakra sensors. This puts him way above Minato who can only track with his finger, something Tobirama can do as well



ueharakk said:


> which means Tobirama's feats in the war don't stack, it means that all of his feats are standalone in regards to his total living chakra capacity



Nope as long as he is not tired, his feats count as what he could do while alive



ueharakk said:


> Space/time techniques depend on the SIZE or VOLUME of what they are warping, it doesn't matter if Tobirama warped 2 kyuubis or if one of them was made up of senjutsu, it's still isn't better than warping 100% Kurama if 100% Kurama is much bigger than both Kyuubis.



 The bijuudama from 50% kyuubi are the same size and 100%. However, Senjutsu makes Justus larger. Also, two 50% kyuubi = 100% kyuubi. Tobirama teleported more mass and showed zero fatigue



ueharakk said:


> And he didn't warp 2 bijuudamas he warped one giant senjutsu rasengan which wasn't larger than another 50% kurama, nor larger than the bijuudama Minato warped away.



The rasengan was larger than both kyuubis



ueharakk said:


> And of course you are still ignoring all the chakra intensive things minato did like fighting obito, holding kurama within kushina's seal, and summoning bunta.  So no.



Neither of those things are chakra intensive. Summoning Bunta is easy. Fighting Obito was all hiraishin, not chakra intensive and holding kyuubi? A seal was doing that. Minato was simply reinforcing the seal, no large chakra expense



ueharakk said:


> Hashirama and his clan were fighting Madara therefore he was helping his clan.... FIGHT MADARA.  That means that if tobirama or his clansmen get tired, they are free to go and get recovered while madara still has to deal with Hashirama and the rest of the clan.



The clans were fighting each other not Senju vs Madara. He would have been steamrolled 



ueharakk said:


> Sure he does.   Inferior edos having a better offense than minato in no way means that Tobirama is above Minato.



It means Tobirama is superior in offense but already established that he is superior in support and had more chakra and higher intelligence. That puts him above Minato.


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## ueharakk (Oct 13, 2013)

Senjuclan said:


> The point is that Edomite tensei makes them infinite. It does not matter what the strength of the zombie is. He will always be extremely useful


Edo tenseis don't make them infinite, why do you think the explosions against obito?




Senjuclan said:


> Did you really not read my comments? Minato is not a chakra sensor while Tobirama is one of the best chakra sensors. This puts him way above Minato who can only track with his finger, something Tobirama can do as well


he sensed both naruto's and kurama's chakra




Senjuclan said:


> Nope as long as he is not tired, his feats count as what he could do while alive


that would only be true for stand alone feats.  Like if Tobirama did a feat, then he could do it while alive.  However if he did a feat and then another feat, we wouldn't know if he could do both in the same battle while alive or not since his chakra would have regened from the first feat.




Senjuclan said:


> The bijuudama from 50% kyuubi are the same size and 100%. However, Senjutsu makes Justus larger. Also, two 50% kyuubi = 100% kyuubi. Tobirama teleported more mass and showed zero fatigue


1) I have no idea why you bring up 50% Kyuubi's bijuudama when Tobirama never teleported it.  
2) Do NOT make me refute the blatantly obvious.  SOME of BM Naruto's bijuudamas are the same size as 100% Kurama's while others are barely larger than a human. you'd have to show that the one tobirama teleported is that case.
3) Since you flat out ignored that S/T techniques are completely dependant on the VOLUME of the objects being teleported, then I'm guessing you concede that point.
4) Since you flat out ignored that 100% Kurama is far larger than the combined size of BM Naruto and BM Minato's avatar, then I'm guessing you concede that point as well.
5) Do you even know what space/time means?  It has nothing to do with the mass of an object, only the volume or SPACE that the object occupies.  A teaspoon of chicken noodle soup is just as difficult to transport as a teaspoon of neutron soup, so saying Tobirama teleported more "mass" (which even that is false) would be irrelevant.




Senjuclan said:


> The rasengan was larger than both kyuubis


Only the bodies of the kyuubi's not the entire construct.




Senjuclan said:


> Neither of those things are chakra intensive. Summoning Bunta is easy. Fighting Obito was all hiraishin, not chakra intensive and holding kyuubi?* A seal was doing that. Minato was simply reinforcing the seal, no large chakra expense*


I would love to see you support the bolded with some kind of argument.  Summoning a boss is chakra intensive, maybe not to Minato, but to general ninjas yes.




Senjuclan said:


> The clans were fighting each other not Senju vs Madara. He would have been steamrolled


Reread what madara says after the fight.  Reread the chapter and see if there are any other Uchihas on the battlefield.   Reread what was said about the uchiha clan before shisui died offpanel.




Senjuclan said:


> It means Tobirama is superior in offense but already established that he is superior in support and had more chakra and higher intelligence. That puts him above Minato.


higher battle intelligence is debatable, support isn't true, and Minato has other advantages such as a superior Hirashin, an instant attack that oneshots (rasengan).


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## Gangryong Ma (Oct 13, 2013)

*Tier One*

0. Sarutobi Hiruzen (young)
1. Hashirama
2. Tobirama
3. Namikaze Minato

These guys are basically gods.  I would place Minato higher, but his performance in the last few chapters underwhelmed me.  Hashirama, Tobirama, and the Professor of Shinobi are in their rightful places.  

*Tier Two*

4. 3rd Raikage
5. Muu
6. 2nd Mizukage
7. Onoki
8. Tsunade 

With more feats and hype, I would place these guys higher, too.  Tsunade would be lower but her support abilities are too haxx.

*Tier Three*

9. Ei
10. Gaara
11. Terumi Mei
12. Shimura Danzou
13. Sarutobi Hiruzen (old)
14. 4th Kazekage
15. Yagura

I would place Ei in Tier Two if it wasn't for his pathetic performance against Madara.  Gaara would also be in Tier Two in the desert but that's not always the case.


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## Elite Uchiha (Oct 13, 2013)

Gangryong Ma said:


> *Tier One*
> 
> *0. Sarutobi Hiruzen (young)*
> 1. Hashirama
> ...



You're kidding me right


----------



## Gangryong Ma (Oct 14, 2013)

Elite Uchiha said:


> You're kidding me right



Nope.


----------



## Dominus (Oct 14, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> he sensed both naruto's and kurama's chakra



Orochimaru, Suigetsu, Sasuke and Jūgo were able to do that too and they aren't sensors.
Minato hasn't shown the ability to determine someone's clan by chakra nor did he sense that Orochimaru's body is composed of Hashirama's cells. Tobirama has better sensing feats than Minato.


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## trance (Oct 14, 2013)

Minato
^
^
^
Tobirama
^
^
Onōki/Mū/TrollKage
^
Raikagenaut/Ei
^
Yagura
^
Gaara
^
4th Kazekage
^
Tsunade/Danzō
^
Hiruzen/Mei


----------

