# Databook IV stats predictions



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 7, 2011)

Post your databook statistics here. I'll start off:

*Team 7:*

Naruto Uzumaki:
Ninjutsu: 5 (+1)
Taijutsu: 5 (+1.5)
Gentjutsu: 3 (+1)
Intelligence: 4 (+1)
Strength: 5 (+1.5)
Speed: 4.5 (+1)
Sta: 5 (+0)
Seal: 3 (+1.5)
Total: 34.5 (From 26)

Sasuke Uchiha:
Ninjutsu: 5 (+0)
Taijutsu: 4 (+0.5)
Genjutsu: 5 (+1)
Intelligence: 4 (+0.5)
Strength: 3.5 (+0)
Speed: 5 (+0.5)
Stamina: 4 (+0.5)
Seal: 4 (+0)
Total: 34.5 (from 31.5)

Sakura Haruno:
Ninjutsu: 3.5 (+0.5)
Taijutsu: 4 (+1)
Genjutsu: 5 (+1.5)
Intelligence: 4 (+0)
Strength: 4 (+1)
Speed: 3(+0)
Stamina: 3 (+0.5)
Seals: 5 (+1)
Total:  27.5 (from 26)

Sai:
Ninjutsu: 5 (+1)
Taijutsu: 4 (+0.5)
Genjutsu: 3.5 (+0)
Intelligence: 3 (+0)
Strength: 3 (+0)
Speed: 4.5 (+1)
Stamina: 3 (+0)
Seal: 5 (+1)
Total: 31 (from 27.5)

*Team 8*

Kiba Inuzuka:
Ninjutsu: 4 (+0.5)
Taijutsu: 3.5 (+0.5)
Genjutsu: 2 (+0)
Intelligence: 3 (+1)
Strength: 4 (+1)
Speed: 5 (+0.5)
Stamina: 3.5 (+1)
Seal: 2 (+0.5)
Total: 27 (from 22)

Hinata Hyuga:
Ninjutsu: 4 (+1)
Taijutsu: 4.5 (+1)
Genjutsu: 3.5 (+1)
Intelligence: 4 (+0.5)
Strength: 1.5 (+0)
Speed: 4 (+1.5)
Stamina: 3 (+1)
Seal: 3 (+0)
Total: 27.5 (from 21.5)

Shino Aburame:
Ninjutsu: 5 (+1)
Taijutsu: 2 (+0.5)
Genjutsu: 2 (+0.5)
Intelligence: 5 (+1)
Strength: 1.5 (+0)
Speed: 3.5 (+0.5)
Stamina: 3 (+0)
Seal: 3 (+1)
Total: 25 (from 21)

*Team 10*

Shikamaru Nara: 
Ninjutsu: 4.5 (+1)
Taijutsu: 3 (+1)
Genjutsu: 4 (+1)
Intelligence: 5 (+0)
Strength: 3 (+1)
Speed: 3.5 (+0.5)
Stamina: 3.5 (+0.5)
Seal: 4 (+1)
Total: 30.5 (from 24.5)

Ino Yamanaka:
Ninjutsu: 4.5 (+1)
Taijutsu: 2.5 (+1)
Genjutsu: 4 (+1)
Intelligence: 4 (+1)
Strength: 3 (+0.5)
Speed: 3.5 (+1)
Stamina: 2.5 (+0)
Seal: 3 (+0.5)
Total: 27 (from 21)

Choji Akimichi:
Ninjutsu: 4.5 (+1)
Taijutsu: 4.5 (+1.5)
Genjutsu: 1.5 (+0.5)
Intelligence: 2.5 (+0.5)
Strength: 5 (+0.5)
Speed: 3 (+1)
Stamina: 4.5 (+1)
Seal: 1 (+0)
Total: 26.5 (from 20.5)

*Team Gai/Guy*:

Neji Hyuga: 
Ninjutsu: 4.5 (+0.5)
Taijutsu: 5 (+0.5)
Genjutsu: 3 (+1)
Intelligence: 4 (+1)
Strength: 3 (+0.5)
Speed: 4.5 (+0)
Stamina: 4 (+0.5)
Seal: 3 (+0)
Total: 31 (from 27)

Rock Lee:
Ninjutsu: 0.5 (+0)
Taijutsu: 5 (+0)
Genjutsu: 1 (+0)
Intelligence: 2.5 (+0.5)
Strength: 5 (+0.5)
Speed: 5 (+0.5)
Stamina: 4.5 (+1)
Seal: 1 (+0)
Total: 24.5 (from 22)

Tenten:
Ninjutsu: 4 (+1)
Taijutsu: 4.5 (+1)
Genjutsu: 2 (+0.5)
Intelligence: 3.5 (+0)
Strength: 1.5 (+0)
Speed: 4 (+0.5)
Stamina: 3 (+1)
Seal: 3 (+1)
Total: 25.5 (from 20.5)

*Sand Siblings*:

Gaara:
Ninjutsu: 5 (+0)
Taijutsu: 3 (+0)
Genjutsu: 4.5 (+1)
Intelligence: 5 (+1)
Strength: 3 (+0.5)
Speed: 4.5 (+1.5)
Stamina: 5 (+0)
Seal: 4.5 (+0.5)
Total: 34.5 (from 29)

Kankuro:
Ninjutsu: 5 (+1)
Taijutsu: 3.5 (+0.5)
Genjutsu: 3 (+0.5)
Intelligence: 4 (+1)
Strength: 3.5 (+0)
Speed: 3.5 (+1)
Stamina: 4 (+0)
Seal: 4 (+0)
Total: 30.5 (from 26.5)

Temari:
Ninjutsu: 5 (+1)
Taijutsu: 3 (+0.5)
Genjutsu: 2 (+0.5)
Intelligence: 5 (+1)
Strength: 3.5 (+0)
Speed: 4 (+1)
Stamina: 3 (+0)
Seal: 3.5 (+0.5)
Total: 29 (from 24.5)

*Akatsuki Stats we didn't get*:

Nagato:
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 4
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seal: 5
Total: 39

Konan:
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 5
Seal: 3
Total: 32.5

Madara Uchiha (Pre-Rinnegan):
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 4
Seal: 5
Total: 36.5

*Kages and their Bodyguards*:

Danzo Shimura:
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3.5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 2
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 5
Seal: 5
Total: 35

Fu:
Ninjutsu: 4.5
Taijutsu: 3
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 2
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 3
Seal: 4
Total: 29

Torune:
Ninjutsu: 4.5
Taijutsu: 3.5
Genjutsu: 2
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 4
Stamina: 4
Seal: 3
Total: 29.5

A:
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 3
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seal: 3
Total: 35

Darui:
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 4
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 4.5
Seal: 3
Total: 33.5

C/Shi:
Ninjutsu: 4
Taijutsu: 2
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 2
Speed: 3.5
Stamina: 3.5
Seal: 4
Total: 29

Onoki:
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 1.5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 5
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 3
Seal: 5
Total: 34

Kurotsuchi:
Ninjutsu: 4.5
Taijutsu: 3.5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 4.5
Seal: 5
Total: 32.5

Akatsuchi:
Ninjutsu: 4.5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 2
Intelligence: 2
Strength: 5
Speed: 3
Stamina: 5
Seal: 1.5
Total: 28

Mei Terumi:
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 4
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 5
Seal: 5
Total: 34.5

Ao:
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 3
Seal: 4
Total: 33

*Kabuto*:

Kabuto Yakushi: 
Ninjutsu: 5 (+0.5)
Taijutsu: 3.5 (+0)
Genjutsu: 5 (+0.5)
Intelligence: 5 (+0)
Strength: 3.5 (+0.5)
Speed: 4.5 (+1)
Stamina: 4.5 (+1.5)
Seal: 5 (+0)
Total: 36 (from 32)


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## DarkRasengan (Mar 7, 2011)

Naruto should be faster than sasuke, and have a higher seal stat.

Raikage shouldnt have a 5 in ninjutsu

Oonoki shouldnt have a 5 in strength


Team 7:

Naruto Uzumaki:
Ninjutsu: 5 (+1)
Taijutsu: 5 (+1.5)
Gentjutsu: 3 (+1)
Intelligence: 4 (+1)
Strength: 5 (+1.5)
Speed: 5
Sta: 5 (+0)
Seal: 4
Total: 36(From 26)

Sasuke Uchiha:
Ninjutsu: 5 (+0)
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 5 (+1)
Intelligence: 4 (+0.5)
Strength: 3.5 (+0)
Speed: 4.5 
Stamina: 4 
Seal: 4 
Total: 34.5 (from 31.5)

Sakura Haruno:
Ninjutsu: 3.5 (+0.5)
Taijutsu: 4 (+1)
Genjutsu: 5 (+1.5)
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 4.5
Speed: 3(+0)
Stamina: 3.5 
Seals: 5 (+1)
Total: 28.5 (from 26)


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## God Hand (Mar 7, 2011)

No way is Naruto's speed going to be anything less then *5*

Seriously, it was probably 5 when he had SM, now that he has Rikudou Mode, it would be higher if the stats could allow it.


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## Rosencrantz (Mar 7, 2011)

Why would base Naruto have 5 tier strength?


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 7, 2011)

DarkRasengan said:


> Naruto should be faster than sasuke, and have a higher seal stat.


These are _base_ stats. And these are Hand Seals, not Fuinjutsu. Naruto is still slower than Sasuke is in base.


> Raikage shouldnt have a 5 in ninjutsu


Why not? He's a Kage. a 5 in Ninjutsu should be automatic.


> Onoki shouldnt have a 5 in strength


He carried the Island Turtle...




Zatoichi said:


> No way is Naruto's speed going to be anything less then *5*
> 
> Seriously, it was probably 5 when he had SM, now that he has Rikudou Mode, it would be higher if the stats could allow it.


Note, these are _BASE STATS_, they don't include bloodlines, super modes, illnesses, etc.



Rosencrantz said:


> Why would base Naruto have 5 tier strength?


Shattering rock with ease.


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## Rosencrantz (Mar 7, 2011)

Shattering rock on that scale is not 5 tier strength. 3 tier strength rock Lee pulled up giant tree root and broke through plenty of rock/earth to bring that up. Shattering rock isn't 5 tier strength worthy. The feat could very well be duplicated by Rock Lee back in the day based on his root pull.


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## Rosencrantz (Mar 7, 2011)

^^Nothing says or implies that ever.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 7, 2011)

Rosencrantz said:


> Shattering rock on that scale is not 5 tier strength. 3 tier strength rock Lee pulled up giant tree root and broke through plenty of rock/earth to bring that up. Shattering rock isn't 5 tier strength worthy. The feat could very well be duplicated by Rock Lee back in the day based on his root pull.


He also managed to budge one of the stone toad statues at Myobokuzan before even using the oil too, if you recall.


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## Rosencrantz (Mar 7, 2011)

He did? I thought he made a comment like it won't budge before using SM. I'll look it up.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 7, 2011)

Rosencrantz said:


> He did? I thought he made a comment like it won't budge before using SM. I'll look it up.


He did make a comment it wouldn't budge, but we got a tiny bit of movement from the statue.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 7, 2011)

FreeCow said:


> ok, I guess I was wrong and Naruto's 5 in genjutsu would totally = Itachi's 5.
> 
> yes, you're absolutely right.


Naruto would never GET a 5 in genjutsu, he's not suited for it. And you DO know that Kurenai has a 5 in genjutsu and the databook went further in her bio to say she has EQUAL SKILL with Itachi in that area, right?


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## Rosencrantz (Mar 7, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> He did make a comment it wouldn't budge, but we got a tiny bit of movement from the statue.


If that's the case, then a tiny budge still doesn't mean 5 tier strength. 3.5 is still pretty good IMO for a strength stat. I would say at most 4.5 but probably more like 4 tier if there is an increase though. To each his own I guess.



FreeCow said:


> ok, I guess I was wrong and Naruto's 5 in genjutsu would totally = Itachi's 5.
> 
> yes, you're absolutely right.


I'm glad you can admit when you are wrong. Takes a big man to be able to do that. Naruto doesn't have a 5 and that deals with stat caps though not any potentialized made up stuff.

I know. Thanks for complying.


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## Egotism (Mar 7, 2011)

Naruto locked and sealed the Kyuubi right after he gain it's power. He also seal away the power in a separate part of his body. Naruto's seal rating should be 4.5 or 5


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## God Hand (Mar 7, 2011)

Team 7:

*Naruto Uzumaki:*
Ninjutsu: 5 (obvious things, like his Rasengans)

Taijutsu: 4.5 (his training with the Frogs, and subsequent battle with Pain)

Gentjutsu: 3 (no way to be sure, but a little improvement wouldn't be out of the question)

Intelligence: 3.5 (yes, he has matured, and he has learned new stuff, but this War arc has shown he's still kinda dumb)

Strength: 5 (thanks to either SM or RM)

Speed: 5 (thanks to either SM or RM)

Sta: 5 (was always high because of the Kyuubi and his own special chakra, now higher thanks to SM and RM)

Seal: 4.5 (he has shown an ability to seal the Kyuubi and use more scrolls, would give him a 5 if he had shown more)

Total: 35.5 (From 26)
*
Sasuke Uchiha:*
Ninjutsu: 5 (its Sasuke)
Taijutsu: 5 (its Sasuke)
Genjutsu: 5 (its SHARINGAN)
Intelligence: 4.5 (its Sasuke)
Strength: 4 (its Sasuke)
Speed: 4.5 (its Sasuke)
Stamina: 4 (its Sasuke)
Seal: 4 (its Sasuke)
Total: 36 (from 31.5)

Akatsuki Stats we didn't get:
*
Nagato:*
Ninjutsu: 5 (duh!)
Taijutsu: 5 (the various Realms)
Genjutsu: 5 (Nagato himself)
Intelligence: 5 (Nagato himself)
Strength: 5 (the various Realms)
Speed: 5 (the various Realms)
Stamina: 5 (Nagato himself despite being a cripple)
Seal: 5 (Nagato himself)
Total: 40

*Madara Uchiha (Pre-Rinnegan):*
Ninjutsu: 5 (Sharingan usage is top tier, clearly has other jutsu up his sleeve)

Taijutsu: 5 (even though he hasnt shown it yet, he is an Uchiha + fought Senju and others all day in wartime + he has a Sharingan)

Genjutsu: 5 (duh!)

Intelligence: 5 (duh!)

Strength: 5 (Maybe not actually very strong, but at this point I wouldnt be surprised if Madara could knock out the Raikage with an uppercut)

Speed: 5 (Sharingan + Teleport)

Stamina: 5

Seal: 5

Total: 40

Kabuto:

*Kabuto Yakushi:*
Ninjutsu: 5 
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 4.5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 4
Speed: 4
Stamina: 4.5
Seal: 5
Total: 36 (from 32)



Those are the only ones I think matter.  If Nagato and Madara are not at 40 or at less then 38, regardless of flaws, then it shows just how stupid these stats really are.  Old Man Sarutobi had 35, with his only weakness coming in the form of 3's in Strength, Stamina, and Speed.  All the physical stats.

Undoubtedly, Nagato and Madara should match him in all stats, but exceed him in the physical stats.  Yes, Nagato was himself a cripple, but through his abilities, he was not.


Just for fun, here is what Senju Tobirama stats should be IMO:

*Nidaime Hokage*
Ninjutsu: 5 (based on all the justu he created)

Taijutsu: 5 (based on fighting Uchiha and comments from others)

Genjutsu: 4 (based on fighting Uchiha all day and surviving)

Intelligence: 5 (based on all the justu he created, and his formation of Konoha)

Strength: 5 (he is a Senju *cough*Tsunade*cough*, and he is a skilled Taijutsu Master)

Speed: 5 (based on fighting Uchiha all day and surviving, and being a Tai master)

Stamina: 5 (based on the jutsu he created, some of which require loads of chakra, also his endurance as a Tai master, and the fact he is a full blooded Senju)

Seal: 5 (based on the jutsu he created)

Total: 39 maybe even a perfect 40


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 7, 2011)

Egotism said:


> Naruto locked and sealed the Kyuubi right after he gain it's power. He also seal away the power in a separate part of his body. Naruto's seal rating should be 4.5 or 5


Seal stands for _hand seals_, not fuinjutsu. Its confusing, I know and it is weird there isn't a fuinjutsu stat.


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## ? (Mar 7, 2011)

_Naruto:35_
Ninjutsu:5
Taijutsu:5
Genjutsu:3
Stamina:5
Speed:5
Strength:5
Seals:3
Knowledge:4

_Sasuke:35.5_
Ninjutsu:5
Taijutsu:4
Genjutsu:5
Stamina:4
Speed:5
Strength:3.5
Seals:5
Knowledge:4

_Minato:37.5_
Ninjutsu:5
Taijutsu:5
Genjutsu:4
Stamina:4.5
Speed:5
Strength:4
Seals:5
Knowledge:5

_Nagato:40 _(  )

Ninjutsu:5
Taijutsu:5
Genjutsu:5
Stamina:5
Speed:5
Strength:5
Seals:5
Knowledge:5

_Killer Bee:34_
Ninjutsu:5
Taijutsu:5
Genjutsu:3.5
Stamina:5
Speed:5
Strength:5
Seals:2.5
Knowledge:3

_Raikage: 30.5_
Ninjutsu:5
Taijutsu:5
Genjutsu:2
Stamina:5
Speed:5
Strength:5
Seals:2.5
Knowledge:1


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## Egotism (Mar 7, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Seal stands for _hand seals_, not fuinjutsu. Its confusing, I know and it is weird there isn't a fuinjutsu stat.



Yeah you got me on that one.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 7, 2011)

Zatoichi said:


> Team 7:
> 
> *Naruto Uzumaki:*
> Ninjutsu: 5 (obvious things, like his Rasengans)
> ...


Again, its HAND SEALS NOT Fuinjutsu. And Naruto has a 5 in taijutsu due to his Frog Kata training. 



> *
> Sasuke Uchiha:*
> Ninjutsu: 5 (its Sasuke)
> Taijutsu: 5 (its Sasuke)
> ...


Sharingan isn't taken into account for stats. Sasuke has never shown top tier taijutsu and wouldn't suddenly gain it like Naruto did through his training. Sasuke doesn't have high strength either. 
Akatsuki Stats we didn't get:





> Taijutsu: 5 (even though he hasnt shown it yet, he is an Uchiha + fought Senju and others all day in wartime + he has a Sharingan)


Madara shouldn't have high taijutsu. He's not suited for it.



> Strength: 5 (Maybe not actually very strong, but at this point I wouldnt be surprised if Madara could knock out the Raikage with an uppercut)


That's wanking, please take it out. Madara never has shown high physical strength.


> Speed: 5 (Sharingan + Teleport)


Again, stop using the Sharingan in stats. It doesn't factor.


> Stamina: 5


No, he hasn't shown tier 5 stamina.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 7, 2011)

Inu said:


> _Naruto:35_
> Ninjutsu:5
> Taijutsu:5
> Genjutsu:3
> ...


Naruto and Sasuke should be pretty much equal in stats dude. 



> _Raikage: 30.5_
> Ninjutsu:5
> Taijutsu:5
> Genjutsu:2
> ...


Little low don't you think? A isn't an idiot so he shouldn't have a 1 in knowledge.


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## Egotism (Mar 7, 2011)

A (Raikage):
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 3.5
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5 
Seals: 3

Killer Bee:
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5 (Genjutsu has no effect on him)
Intelligence: 3
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5 
Seals: 3


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 7, 2011)

Egotism said:


> A (Raikage):
> Ninjutsu: 5
> Taijutsu: 5
> Genjutsu: 4
> ...


Killer Bee wouldn't have a 5 in genjutsu. He'd probably have a 3 since he hasn't shown proficiency in it.


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## ? (Mar 7, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Naruto and Sasuke should be pretty much equal in stats dude.



They are equal in strength, however Sasuke has always been more well rounded than Naruto so I think he will always have higher overall stats than Naruto. 





> Little low don't you think? A isn't an idiot so he shouldn't have a 1 in knowledge.


It was an exaggeration on my part to give him a 1, but I still think he is on the lower end of the intellegence stat.


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## God Hand (Mar 7, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Again, its HAND SEALS NOT Fuinjutsu. And Naruto has a 5 in taijutsu due to his Frog Kata training.



Lol...your right that is for Hand Seals, my apologies, but that makes that stat bullshit to predict since we never really see anyone use Hand Seals anymore.

Also, stop acting like you know exactly what the stats are while telling me my guesses are wrong.  Your guessing too. 




> Sharingan isn't taken into account for stats. Sasuke has never shown top tier taijutsu and wouldn't suddenly gain it like Naruto did through his training. Sasuke doesn't have high strength either.



Sasuke is a Mary Sue, believe it! 

His stats will be incredible even though we never got to see much of anything from him.




> Madara shouldn't have high taijutsu. He's not suited for it.



Madara hasn't even shown what he is capable of, so how can you say he's not suited for it yet?



> That's wanking, please take it out. Madara never has shown high physical strength.



He also hasn't shown his full power yet, so its a little wanking, but not as much as you think.



> Again, stop using the Sharingan in stats. It doesn't factor.



The Sharingan is a natural ability, it does too factor in to the stats.  Will Sasuke's Genjutsu have been as high as it was without the Sharingan?  No.  As he never showed none Sharingan Genjutsu, then by your reasoning he never should have had a high Genjutsu stat.



> No, he hasn't shown tier 5 stamina.



Stop acting like you know.  He hasn't shown he doesn't have massive Stamina, so my guess isn't much worse then yours.  By your reasoning we cant say he has average stamina, poor stamina, or great stamina.


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## UltimateDeadpool (Mar 7, 2011)

Madara
Ninjutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 5
Chakra: 4.5
Seals: 5
(38)

Danzo
Ninjutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 3
Speed: 3
Chakra: 4.5
Seals: 5
(34)

Kinkaku
Ninjutsu: 3.5
Genjutsu: 3
Taijutsu: 4
Intelligence: 3
Strength: 4.5
Speed: 3.5
Chakra: 5
Seals: 3.5
(30)

Ginkaku
Ninjutsu: 3.5
Genjutsu: 2.5
Taijutsu: 4
Intelligence: 2.5
Strength: 4
Speed: 4
Chakra: 5
Seals: 3.5
(29)

Nagato (pre-Gedo Mazo)
Ninjutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3
Taijutsu: 3.5
Intelligence: 3.5
Strength: 3
Speed: 4
Chakra: 5
Seals: 5
(32)

Konan
Ninjutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 2.5
Speed: 4
Chakra: 3.5
Seals: 4.5
(32)

Ei
Ninjutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 3
Taijutsu: 5
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Chakra: 5
Seals: 3
(34.5)

Killer Bee
Ninjutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 2
Taijutsu: 5
Intelligence: 3
Strength: 4.5
Speed: 4.5
Chakra: 5
Seals: 3
(31)

Darui
Ninjutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3
Taijutsu: 4.5
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 4
Speed: 4.5
Chakra: 3.5
Seals: 5
(34)

That's all I'm gonna do for now.


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## Egotism (Mar 7, 2011)

Kinkaku
Ninjutsu: 3.5
Genjutsu: 3
Taijutsu: 4
Intelligence: 3
Strength: 4.5
Speed: 3
Stamina: 5
Seals: 3.5

Ginkaku
Ninjutsu: 3.5
Genjutsu: 2.5
Taijutsu: 4
Intelligence: 2.5
Strength: 4
Speed: 3
Stamina: 5
Seals: 3.5


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## Scorpion (Mar 7, 2011)

The only thing that I see wrong is Nagato having a 4 in strength. Asura Realm and Human Realm have shown SM level strength, or close to it. Nagato himself should have a 5. 

Genjutsu is a more suitable area for him to have a 4, but imo he should have 40.


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## Wizard (Mar 7, 2011)

Naruto:
Ninjutsu: 5 +1 (rasenshuriken, kagebunshin etc)
Taijutsu: 4.5 +1(he learned frog katas)
Genjutsu: 3 +1(probably average by now)
Speed: 5 +1.5(rikudo mode)
Strength: 5 +1.5(sage mode)
Intelligence: 3.5 +0.5(would have been a 4 if he wasn't so stupid in this war arc)
Stamina: 5 
Seals: 4 +2.5(the sealing the kyuubi raised it, might be a 3.5)
Total: 35 +9

Sasuke:
Ninjutsu: 5 (amaterasu, chidori, susanoo spam)
Taijutsu: 4 +0.5
Genjutsu: 4.5 +0.5 (tsukiyomi isnt itachi level yet)
Speed: 4.5
Strength: 4 +0.5 (with susanoo arms)
Intelligence: 4 +0.5(emo but used that gen on danzo)
Stamina: 4.5 +1( or 4 or 5 not sure)
Seals: 4
Total: 34.5 +3

Gaara
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3.5+1.5 (should be above average since he is kage)
Genjutsu: 4+0.5 (not sure how he is good but databook says otherwise)
Speed: 4.5 +1.5(said he could reach turtle faster then oonoki so he is fast if not faster then oonoki)
Strength: 5+2.5 (databook says 2.5 but SHOULDN'T HE BE ABLE TO LIFT EVERYTING WITH HIS SAND (EMPHASIS)?)
Intelligence: 4.5+0.5(databook says 4)
Stamina: 5
Seals: 4 (databook says 4)
Total: 35.5 +6.5

so naruto improved the most, sasuke the least and gaara in the middle)
although naruto is probably stronger then gaara)

Nagato=everything five except taijutsu (1) and speed (4.5 cuz of gravity) and intelligence (4) for a total of 34.5


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 7, 2011)

Zatoichi said:


> Sasuke is a Mary Sue, believe it!
> 
> His stats will be incredible even though we never got to see much of anything from him.


We DID see what he could do in the Kage Summit. Your stats don't justify what he did.





> Madara hasn't even shown what he is capable of, so how can you say he's not suited for it yet?


Did you miss his battle with Minato? Konan? Or Fu and Torune? He never showed Taijutsu mastery, nor high stamina in that. 




> He also hasn't shown his full power yet, so its a little wanking, but not as much as you think.


He has showed his full power against Minato. He got his ass handed to him. He doesn't have high physical strength so stop the 'he hasn't shown his full power yet' as an argument.




> The Sharingan is a natural ability, it does too factor in to the stats.  Will Sasuke's Genjutsu have been as high as it was without the Sharingan?  No.  As he never showed none Sharingan Genjutsu, then by your reasoning he never should have had a high Genjutsu stat.


The Sharingan is a kekki genkai. They don't factor into stats. We've known this for years, Zatochi. And yes, Sasuke's Genjutsu would be high without his Sharingan due to his knowledge and proficiency on how it works. 




> Stop acting like you know.  He hasn't shown he doesn't have massive Stamina, so my guess isn't much worse then yours.  By your reasoning we cant say he has average stamina, poor stamina, or great stamina.


Since he hasn't shown it at all. He's shown that he has at best above average stamina from his battles with Minato and Konan.


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## Jizznificent (Mar 7, 2011)

Zatoichi said:


> No way is Naruto's speed going to be anything less then *5*
> 
> Seriously, it was probably 5 when he had SM, now that he has Rikudou  Mode, it would be higher if the stats could allow it.


databook stats don't include transformations/ powerups such as SM, CS, RM, bijuu shrouds etc.

*naruto*
nin: 5 (+1)
tai: 4 (+0.5)
gen: 2.5 (+0.5)
int: 3.5 (+0.5)
str: 3.5 
spe: 4 (+0.5)
sta: 5 
seals: 1.5 

*sasuke:
*nin: 5
tai: 4 (+0.5)
gen: 5 (+1)
int: 3.5
str: 3.5
spe: 4.5 
sta: 4 (+0.5)
seals: 4

*nagato* *(crippled)*
nin: 5
tai:4
gen: 5
int: 5
str:1.5
spe: 1.5
sta: 5
seals: 5

might do others later...


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## DarkRasengan (Mar 7, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> These are _base_ stats. And these are Hand Seals, not Fuinjutsu. Naruto is still slower than Sasuke is in base.
> 
> Why not? He's a Kage. a 5 in Ninjutsu should be automatic.
> 
> ...


If its base stats why is narutos strength 5?

Raikage has shown 1 ninjutsu, being kage means nothing.

Tsuchikage didnt carry the island, he made it float with his dust powers.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 7, 2011)

DarkRasengan said:


> If its base stats why is narutos strength 5?


Since he's shown very high physical strength in the past without his powers.


> Raikage has shown 1 ninjutsu, being kage means nothing.


Actually, being a Kage means he's a master of ninjutsu. All Kage's so far have had a five.


> Tsuchikage didnt carry the island, he made it float with his dust powers.


Dust Release would have destroyed the Island Turtle.


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## bullsh3t (Mar 7, 2011)

nagato (crippled) more like
nin: 5
tai:1.5
gen: 5
int: 5
str:1.5
spe: 1.5
sta: 5
seals: 5

Pain
Should be capped in everything. IMO


----------



## Velocity (Mar 7, 2011)

To stop it getting messy, here's mine in spoilers.


*Spoiler*: _Naruto ._ 



_Ninjutsu - _5 [+1]
_ Taijutsu - _5 [+1.5]
_ Genjutsu -_ 3 [+1]
_ Intelligence - _4 [+1]
_ Strength - _5 [+1.5]
_ Speed - _4.5 [+1]
_ Stamina - _5 [+0]
_ Hand Seals -_ 3.5 [+2]
_Total - _35 [+9]




Naruto has improved leaps and bounds since the last Databook, far more than anyone else. Thanks to Sage Mode increasing his physical abilities while Fox Mode is increasing his jutsu prowess, Naruto has gained a well-rounded boost.


*Spoiler*: _Sasuke ._ 



_Ninjutsu - _5 [+0]
_ Taijutsu - _4.5 [+1]
_ Genjutsu - _5 [+1]
_ Intelligence -_ 3.5 [+0]
_ Strength - _4 [+0.5]_
Speed -_ 5 [+0.5]
_ Stamina -_ 4 [+0.5]
_ Hand Seals -_ 4 [+0]
_Total - _35 [+3.5]




Sasuke may have gained the Mangekyo Sharingan, but he lost the Cursed Seal and the power it granted. Due to this, Sasuke has not improved his physical attributes much at all, although his powerful new techniques make up for that.


*Spoiler*: _Kabuto ._ 



_Ninjutsu - _5 [+0.5]
_ Taijutsu - _3.5 [+0]
_ Genjutsu - _5 [+0.5]
_ Intelligence -_ 5 [+0]
_ Strength - _4 [+1]
_ Speed - _5 [+1.5]
_ Stamina - _4.5 [+1.5]
_ Hand Seals -_ 5 [+0]
_Total - _37 [+5]




Thanks to Orochimaru's DNA, Kabuto has gained his former master's immense ninjutsu and genjutsu skill, as well as the White Snake abilities that afford him an impressive increase to strength, stamina and speed.


*Spoiler*: _Gaara ._ 



_Ninjutsu - _5 [+0]
_Taijutsu - _3 [+1]
_Genjutsu - _4 [+0.5]
_Intelligence -_ 5 [+1]
_Strength - _3.5 [+1]
_Speed - _5 [+2]
_Stamina - _5 [+0]
_Hand Seals -_ 4 [+0]
_Total - _34.5 [+5.5]




Being the Kazekage has given Gaara time to improve his general skills, although he improved his speed the most - whereas Shukaku once protected him automatically, he can now react instantaneously with his Sand.


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## Jizznificent (Mar 7, 2011)

bullsh3t said:


> nagato (crippled) more like
> nin: 5
> tai:1.5
> gen: 5
> ...


i think his taijutsu skills should be higher. taijutsu stats are measurements of one's knowledge and proficiency in hand to hand combat, not their physical capabilities in hand to hand combat. he maybe a cripple but from what i've seen him display through pain, his knowledge in taijutsu is good, to say the least. the rest, i agree with.


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## DarkRasengan (Mar 7, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Since he's shown very high physical strength in the past without his powers.
> 
> Actually, being a Kage means he's a master of ninjutsu. All Kage's so far have had a five.
> 
> Dust Release would have destroyed the Island Turtle.



No, a dust release attack would destroy the island turtle, thats like saying kakuzu's doton armor would sink people, a kekkegenkai can have offensive, defensive, and utility attacks.

And being a kage doesnt mean you master ninjutsu, it means your strong soo it would mean your either a beast in taijutsu, ninjutsu, or genjutsu, in A's case hes a beast in taijutsu with 1 ninjutsu shown.

Naruto doesnt have any strength feats outside of sm.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 7, 2011)

DarkRasengan said:


> No, a dust release attack would destroy the island turtle, thats like saying kakuzu's doton armor would sink people, a kekkegenkai can have offensive, defensive, and utility attacks.


You do know the Flight Technique isn't Dust Release right? From the looks of it, Onoki just lifted the turtle.


> And being a kage doesnt mean you master ninjutsu, it means your strong soo it would mean your either a beast in taijutsu, ninjutsu, or genjutsu, in A's case hes a beast in taijutsu with 1 ninjutsu shown.


All the Kages in the past have had a 5 in ninjutsu, DarkRasengan. Hiruzen had a 5 in all three categories.


> Naruto doesnt have any strength feats outside of sm.


Shattering stone, budging the toad statues, etc. aren't feats?


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## UltimateDeadpool (Mar 7, 2011)

bullsh3t said:


> nagato (crippled) more like
> nin: 5
> tai:1.5
> gen: 5
> ...



Each body should have it's own strength and speed stat, and the other stats would be derived from Nagato.



Jizznificent said:


> i think his taijutsu skills should be  higher. taijutsu stats are measurements of one's knowledge and  proficiency in hand to hand combat, not their physical capabilities in  hand to hand combat. he maybe a cripple but from what i've seen him  display through pain, his knowledge in taijutsu is good, to say the  least. the rest, i agree with.



Agreed, except for the Intelligence part since Nagato hasn't shown to be that smart.


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## Big Mom (Mar 7, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Nagato:
> Ninjutsu: 5
> Taijutsu: 5
> Genjutsu: 5
> ...



Strength and Speed should be lower. He couldn't even move...




> Danzo Shimura:
> Ninjutsu: 5
> Taijutsu: 3.5
> Genjutsu: 5
> ...



Danzo should have higher strength. He wasn't all that weak[if Nagato gets a 4, Danzo gets a 7]. He should have a 3-3.5 in strength.




> Onoki:
> Ninjutsu: 5
> Taijutsu: 1.5
> Genjutsu: 5
> ...



Speed should be higher...

My Updated Stats[yours weren't bad and I made corrections] so:

Kisame[Updated]:
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 2.5
Intelligence- 4
Strength- 5
Speed: 4.5 
Stamina: 5
Seal: 3.5
Total: 34

Kinkaku/Ginkaku:

Ninjutsu: 4
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 2.5
Intelligence: 3
Strength: 5
Speed: 3.5
Stamina: 5
Seal: 5
Total: 32.5


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 7, 2011)

UltimateDeadpool said:


> Agreed, except for the Intelligence part since Nagato hasn't shown to be that smart.


...Nagato hasn't shown to be smart? He mastered all six elements ate age _10_. Used a feint to beat Jiraiya. Defeated _all of Konoha_ through a cunning plan and power, even accomplished his objective. UltimateDeadpool, I know you hate Nagato for beating Jiraiya, but come on, he has a 5 in intelligence.


----------



## Egotism (Mar 7, 2011)

If you want a review on Nagato's intelligence just read the chapter where Shikamaru explained his battle tactic on Konoha


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## Big Mom (Mar 7, 2011)

I don't think that feat went only to Nagato. Madara and Konan could have helped him out with that tatic.


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## Kuromaku (Mar 7, 2011)

*Nagato*
*N:* 5
*T:* 4.5
*G:* 5
*I:* 5
*Str:* 0 (3.5 pre-GM)
*Spd:* 0 (4.5 pre-GM)
*Stm:* 5
*S:* 5
*Total=* 29.5


*Spoiler*: __ 



*Remarks:* Looking at this, I'd say this is a close, if probably generous as far as his stats go.  He was a jutsu specialist by virtue of his eyes, and his taijutsu was solid enough that he was able to hold his own against several opponents when he split his bodies up.  Not only that, but his frequent use of taijutsu suggests that he was competent in the discipline.  As for genjutsu, this might be where I'm getting generous, as I am assuming that the Rinnegan granted him the ability to see through and use all sorts of jutsu, but like Orochimaru and the Uchiha, he simply was unable to escape the Frog Song.  Intelligence wise, I gave him a high score due to the likelihood of him being the one who designed and built Asura realms modifications as well as the hexapod wheelchair/life support device.  Sasori was tricked several times as well when he got a chance to fight, but he got a full intelligence score for his ingenious modifications.




*Konan*
*N:* 5
*T:* 3
*G:* 3.5
*I:* 4.5
*Str:* 3
*Spd:* 4.5
*Stm:* 4
*S:* 4
*Total=* 31.5

*A*
*N:* 5
*T:* 5
*G:* 3
*I:* 3
*Str:* 5
*Spd:* 5
*Stm:* 5
*S:* 3.5
*Total=* 34.5

*Killer Bee*
*N:* 5
*T:* 5
*G:* 2.5
*I:* 3
*Str:* 5
*Spd:* 4.5
*Stm:* 5
*S:* 3.5
*Total=* 33.5

*Danzo*
*N:* 5
*T:* 4.5
*G:* 5
*I:* 5
*Str:* 3
*Spd:* 3
*Stm:* 3.5
*S:* 5
*Total=* 34

*Minato*
*N:* 5
*T:* 4.5
*G:* 4
*I:* 5
*Str:* 3.5
*Spd:* 5
*Stm:* 3.5
*S:* 5
*Total=* 35.5

*Kinkaku*
*N:* 4.5
*T:* 5
*G:* 3
*I:* 3
*Str:* 4.5
*Spd:* 4.5
*Stm:* 5
*S:* 3.5
*Total=* 33

*Ginkaku*
*N:* 4.5
*T:* 5
*G:* 3
*I:* 3
*Str:* 4
*Spd:* 4.5
*Stm:* 5
*S:* 3.5
*Total=* 32.5


*Spoiler*: __ 



*Remarks:* Probably way off.


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## Judecious (Mar 7, 2011)

Nagato-Nin-5, Tai-4.5, Gen-5, Int-5 Str-4, Speed-4.5, Sta-5, Seal-5. *Total=38*

Minato-Nin-5, Tai-4.5, Gen-5, Int-5, Str-3.5, Speed-5, Sta-4.5, Seal-5. *Total=37.5-38*

A-Nin-4, Tai-5, Gen-3, Int-3.5, Str-5, Speed-5, Sta-5, Seal-3.5. *Total =34*

Bee-Nin-4, Tai-5, Gen-3.5, Int-3.5, Str-5, Speed-5, Sta-5, Seal-3. *Total=34*

Naruto-Nin-5, Tai-5, Gen-3, Int-4, Str-5, Speed-5, Sta-5, Seal-2.5. *Total=34*

Sasuke-Nin-5, Tai-4, Gen-5, Int-4, Str-3.5, Speed-4.5, Sta-4, Seal-4. *Total=34*

Darui-Nin-5, Tai-4, Gen-3.5, Int-4.5, Str-4, Speed-4, Sta-4.5, Seal-4. *Total=33.5*

Even with lover stats Naruto/Sasuke>This guys


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## Egotism (Mar 7, 2011)

Kin & Gin speed should not be 4 or above.


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## UltimateDeadpool (Mar 8, 2011)

Egotism said:


> Kin & Gin speed should not be 4 or above.



They didn't seem like the fastest around, but why is that?


----------



## Egotism (Mar 8, 2011)

UltimateDeadpool said:


> They didn't seem like the fastest around, but why is that?



If you look back at the Darui fight they barely made any movement adding on their movement was not impressive. Their reaction speed sucks (How many times did Darui blitzed them?")


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 8, 2011)

Kuromaku said:


> *Nagato*
> *N:* 5
> *T:* 4.5
> *G:* 5
> ...


You do know that you made Nagato statwise weaker than Itachi and Jiraiya-despite beating Jiraiya right and despite being called the strongest Akatsuki right? Not only that, his mobility is via his bodies and he has shown excellent reaction times. He should pretty much max out in Speed and Strength.


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## UltimateDeadpool (Mar 8, 2011)

Egotism said:


> If you look back at the Darui fight they barely made any movement adding on their movement was not impressive. Their reaction speed sucks (How many times did Darui blitzed them?")



Ginkaku fought Darui fairly evenly in their swordfight, as neither gained an apparent advantage. 

Kinkaku went to chop Darui, and he cut off Kinkaku's arm and used Laser Circus which hit Ginkaku; whom didn't attempt to dodge because he was using Samui as a shield. Then Kinkaku kicked his arm with the rope at Darui and cursed him with the sword. 

Then Darui wasn't sealed inside the Crimson Gourd and surprised Ginkaku from behind, knocking the two over and making them drop their treasures. He then threw his sword at Kinkaku, which he swatted away, and used Laser Circus against him. Then he used the treasures on Ginkaku.  

That's pretty much the extent of their fight with Darui, until Kinkaku went KK6. So it's hard to really tell how fast any of them are.



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> You do know that you made Nagato  statwise weaker than Itachi and Jiraiya-despite beating Jiraiya right  and despite being called the strongest Akatsuki right? Not only that,  his mobility is via his bodies and he has shown excellent reaction  times. He should pretty much max out in Speed and Strength.



Pein doesn't attribute to Nagato's stats. It's a jutsu, Nagato himself is not as fast or strong as any of them.

I'd also say that he made Nagato's intelligence, genjutsu, and taijutsu too high. Nagato fell for every trick; couldn't beat Base Naruto, Kiba and Tsume, or Konohamaru in CQC; and the only known genjutsu could had been casted by Konan given it's paper-theme and her interaction with the Rain ninjas.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 8, 2011)

UltimateDeadpool said:


> Pein doesn't attribute to Nagato's stats. It's a jutsu, Nagato himself is not as fast or strong as any of them.


The Six Paths of Pain are a physical extension of Nagato's own abilities. 


> I'd also say that he made Nagato's intelligence, genjutsu, and taijutsu too high. He fell for every trick; couldn't beat Base Naruto, Kiba and Tsume, or Konohamaru in CQC; and there's only one potential genjutsu which has hints that Konan performed.


Nagato's intelligence is extremely high-he BEAT ALL OF KONOHA AT THE SAME TIME because he planned it out, exploited their weaknesses, and kept them guessing. He then accomplished his objective of finding where Konoha hid Naruto. Not only that, he mastered _all six elemental transformations at age *10*_, his Rinnegan gave him the ability to do so, that's true, however, to master the element takes smarts and dedication. Hell he even invents new ninjutsu _in his spare time_. Hell, his charisma also shows his intelligence since he could keep Akatsuki's members from tearing each other apart.

And yeah, he gets a five in genjutsu because he mastered the source of it, Yin and Yang. Not only that, HE made those genjutsu traps, not Konan. And his Taijutsu is also high-him fighting through Deva Path shows it.

Are you ignoring the fact he HAD beat Naruto? Naruto only won when Deva Path was on its last legs and could barely stand due to the cumulative damage it had taken. Kiba and Tsune never actually fought Preta, not only that, Preta avoided their Gatsuga, while BLIND with ease and was summoned away before the battle could continue. And finally, Konohamaru had to use a *Bushin Feint* to even stand a chance against Naraka-who _destroyed two Jonin and a Chunin_ before hand. 

Again, you underestimate Nagato/Pain so badly since you hate he killed Jiraiya. That's what everyone says about you.


----------



## jimbob631 (Mar 8, 2011)

Naruto Uzumaki:
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4 
Gentjutsu: 2 
Intelligence: 4 
Strength: 4 
Speed: 4
Sta: 5 
Seal: 3
Total: 31

Sage Mode Naruto
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5 
Gentjutsu: 3 
Intelligence: 4 
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Sta: 5 
Seal: 3
Total: 35



Sasuke Uchiha:
Ninjutsu: 5 
Taijutsu: 4 
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 4 
Strength: 3.5 
Speed: 5 
Stamina: 4 
Seal: 4
Total: 34.5 

Gaara:
Ninjutsu: 5 
Taijutsu: 3 
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 5 
Strength: 3 
Speed: 4.5 
Stamina: 5 
Seal: 5 
Total: 33.5 

Nagato:
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seal: 5
Total: 40

Konan:
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3
Speed: 4
Stamina: 5
Seal: 5
Total: 33

Madara Uchiha (Pre-Rinnegan):
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 4
Speed: 5
Stamina: 4
Seal: 5
Total: 38

Danzo Shimura:
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 5
Seal: 5
Total: 36.5

A:
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 3
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seal: 5
Total: 36

Darui:
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 4
Speed: 4
Stamina: 4.5
Seal: 4
Total: 33

Onoki:
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 5
Speed: 4
Stamina: 3
Seal: 5
Total: 35

Kabuto Yakushi: 
Ninjutsu: 5 
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 5 
Intelligence: 5 
Strength: 3.5 
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seal: 5 
Total: 38

Killer Bee

Ninjutsu: 4
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 4 
Intelligence: 4 
Strength: 4
Speed: 4
Stamina: 5
Seal: 4 
Total:  34

Killer Bee w/ Hachibi cloak

Ninjutsu: 4
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 4 
Intelligence: 4 
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seal: 4 
Total:  36

Minato


Ninjutsu:5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 4 
Intelligence: 5 
Strength: 4
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seal: 5
Total:  37.5


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## UltimateDeadpool (Mar 8, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> The Six Paths of Pain are a physical extension of Nagato's own abilities.
> 
> Nagato's intelligence is extremely high-he BEAT ALL OF KONOHA AT THE SAME TIME because he planned it out, exploited their weaknesses, and kept them guessing. He then accomplished his objective of finding where Konoha hid Naruto. Not only that, he mastered _all six elemental transformations at age *10*_, his Rinnegan gave him the ability to do so, that's true, however, to master the element takes smarts and dedication. Hell he even invents new ninjutsu _in his spare time_. Hell, his charisma also shows his intelligence since he could keep Akatsuki's members from tearing each other apart.
> 
> ...



They aren't anymore extensions of Nagato than Sasori's puppets are extensions of himself. 

He planned out Chou Shinra Tensei? Wow, that took alot of planning /sarcasm. And only the buildings were destroyed, the populace were still able to fight which means they weren't defeated. He did use a good strategy however.
Rinnegan =/= intelligence.
What says Nagato invents jutsus in his spare time? 
My uncle's charming, and he's a dumbass. He's friends with a bunch of  bands like 3 Doors Down and Nickelback, but he tried to make me believe  that algae was dirt, amongst other things. 

People with a 5 in ninjutsu don't also have 5's in genjutsu, so that logic doesn't quite work. They are different skills. The genjutsu block had a paper theme, and even after breaking the genjutsu block, the Rain ninjas never saw Nagato; they saw Konan. 
Deva fought Base Naruto fairly evenly in taijutsu, and Naruto's taijutsu is officially 3.5. Nagato also showed his taijutsu skill through Hell, which was toppled by Konohamaru. Hungry Ghost also couldn't beat Kiba or Tsume in taijutsu. 

You're talking about a different part of the fight. I'm talking about when Sage Mode timed-out the first time and Deva rushed him. They did fight Hungry Ghost, in the medical exam room; you're also talking about anime filler, and are either guessing about the summoning or using filler. Even worse, Hell was having a hard time beating Konohamaru's Shadow Clone. The fight went on for a couple minutes, and Konohamaru dodged a kick, before Hell was able to pin him against a wall. 

Those people also don't know me. I don't like Pein because he's a hypocritical, megalomaniacal, genocidal, sadistic sociopath. And I don't like people hyping him beyond belief.
I do admit that he's one of the top dogs though, and there are certain aspects of him I do like.
And remember that Madara is tied with Jiraiya as my favorite character. He too now has the Rinnegan, and my opinions do not change.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 8, 2011)

UltimateDeadpool said:


> They aren't anymore extensions of Nagato than Sasori's puppets are extensions of himself.


They were extensions of himself since he had to control their movements with pure chakra movements by manipulating the dead muscles.


> He planned out Chou Shinra Tensei? Wow, that took alot of planning /sarcasm. And only the buildings were destroyed, the populace were still able to fight which means they weren't defeated. He did use a good strategy however.


The Chou Shinra Tensei was the coup d'grace to crush the village that was figuring out his secrets. Not only that, the populace only survived due to Tsunade and WEREN'T capable of fighting back, everything had to be left to Naruto who was ultimately, initially defeated by Pain. And his strategy was MASTERFUL. 


> Rinnegan =/= intelligence.


So I suppose Itachi doesn't deserve his 5 in Intelligence due to his overreliance of his Sharingan huh? And not only that, the Rinnegan just made it POSSIBLE for Nagato to learn the nature transformations. He had to be gifted in mastering them themselves, otherwise even with his god-like eyes it'd have been for naught. 


> What says Nagato invents jutsus in his spare time?


Databook 3, his hobbies.


> My uncle's charming, and he's a dumbass. He's friends with a bunch of  bands like 3 Doors Down and Nickelback, but he tried to make me believe  that algae was dirt, amongst other things.


There's a difference between 'charming' and charismatic. Nagato knew how people work, knew how to get people to follow him. He could keep 8 ruthless S-Class missing ninja in line and inspire them to follow him.


> People with a 5 in ninjutsu don't also have 5's in genjutsu, so that logic doesn't quite work. They are different skills. The genjutsu block had a paper theme, and even after breaking the genjutsu block, the Rain ninjas never saw Nagato; they saw Konan.


Are you kind of forgetting where Genjutsu even COMES FROM? Yin and Yang, which Nagato mastered. He has mastered the VERY SOURCE of Genjutsu, and the Rain Ninja's MEMORIES which were seen AFTER the Genjutsu blocks were broken were just that, MEMORIES. Nagato made the genjutsu blocks, not Konan.


> Deva fought Base Naruto fairly evenly in taijutsu, and Naruto's taijutsu is officially 3.5. Nagato also showed his taijutsu skill through Hell, which was toppled by Konohamaru. Hungry Ghost also couldn't beat Kiba or Tsume in taijutsu.


1. Deva fought a Base Naruto who had mastered Frog Katas. He doesn't have a 3.5 anymore, especially since Deva got into Kakashi's guard with ease even with Kakashi's Sharingan up and stabbed him before he even knew what happened. Way to damage your own argument.
2. Naraka destroyed Konohamaru who had to use foreknowledge from watching him in action before AND a Bushin Feint to even have a chance of STUNNING it with a Rasengan.
3. Way to conveniently ignore that Preta never got a chance to fight them since it was summoned away. Way to conveniently ignore that Preta blocked Tsume's Gatsuga-while Blinded and was poising for a counter attack before being summoned away.

You're really damaging your case.


> You're talking about a different part of the fight. I'm talking about when Sage Mode timed-out the first time and Deva rushed him. They did fight Hungry Ghost, in the medical exam room; you're also talking about anime filler, and are either guessing about the summoning or using filler. Even worse, Hell was having a hard time beating Konohamaru's Shadow Clone. The fight went on for a couple minutes, and Konohamaru dodged a kick, before Hell was able to pin him against a wall.


1. Are you ignoring that there, Deva's power was drained?
2. No, they didn't really 'fight' Preta Path. Tsume tossed a light bomb in, Gatsugaed, Preta blocked with the former Animal Path's body and leaped into the wall, poising for a counter attack before Animal Path summoned it away. You're imagining the Anime Filler, not me.
3. Yeah, dodging a kick really shows how bad Naraka is in taijutsu! And yeah, its not like a smaller target is much more agile than a larger one, nope, not happening! And Konohamaru only briefly stunned him before he was summoned away. And also ignore that Deva Path was confronting Tsunade at that moment and Nagato was preparing for a fight there! Thus ignoring his divided attention of fighting THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE VILLAGE.


> I don't underestimate Pein, you overestimate him.


First off, its _Pain_. And no, I'm not overestimating him. I'm presenting him in the way the manga showed us. You know, the strongest member of Akatsuki as what the manga said. You know, the strongest member of Akatsuki as what the third databook said. You know, the Akatsuki member both Madara and Zetsu proclaimed as invincible and Zetsu even went so far to claim he couldn't even believe Pain could be defeated?

The manga makes him near invincible. He destroyed Jiraiya easily-Jiraiya'd have only a slight chance really if he had knowledge.


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## Faustus (Mar 8, 2011)

UltimateDeadpool said:


> They aren't anymore extensions of Nagato than Sasori's puppets are extensions of himself.


Sasori was a fucking CONTAINER, he should have *0* in speed, strength and handseals, yet he had high stats. So, yes, Pain bodies *are* extensions of Nagato.


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## Kisame (Mar 8, 2011)

Kisame:
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5 (or a 5 )
Genjutsu: 2.5
Stamina: 5
Speed: 4.5
Strength: 5
Seals: 3.5
Knowledge: 4


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 8, 2011)

Shark said:


> Kisame:
> Ninjutsu: 5
> Taijutsu: 4.5 (or a 5 )
> Genjutsu: 2.5
> ...


Kisame's stats were already laid out man. Sorry, no 5's in taijutsu or ninjutsu, just 4.5's.


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## Alex Payne (Mar 8, 2011)

Lol, stats total

Let's see...

*Spoiler*: __ 




*Naruto:*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 2.5
Intelligence/Knowledge: 3.5 
Strength: 4
Speed: 4
Stamina: 5
Seal: 1.5

No SM/RM boosts to strength/speed.

*Sasuke:*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3.5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence/Knowledge: 3.5 
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 4
Seal: 4

*Killer B:*

Ninjutsu: 4.5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence/Knowledge: 4
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seal: 3

*Minato:*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence/Knowledge: 5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 4
Seal: 5

*Raikage:*

Ninjutsu: 4.5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence/Knowledge: 4
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seal: 3

*Darui:*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 3.5
Intelligence/Knowledge: 4
Strength: 4
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 4.0
Seal: 4

*Kabuto:*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence/Knowledge: 5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 4
Seal: 5

*Nagato:*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 4.5
Intelligence/Knowledge: 5
Strength: N/A(Realms have different strength, from 3 to 5 / pre-GM he should have 3.5)
Speed: N/A(Realms have different speed, from 3.5 to 5 / pre-GM he should have 4.5)
Stamina: 5
Seal: 5


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## Big Mom (Mar 8, 2011)

Egotism said:


> If you look back at the Darui fight they barely made any movement adding on their movement was not impressive. Their reaction speed sucks (How many times did Darui blitzed them?")



Yet Kinkaku blitzed Darui.


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## Deleted member 175252 (Mar 8, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> He carried the Island Turtle...



actually onoki has a jutsu which allows him to give things flight


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## Judecious (Mar 8, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> He carried the Island Turtle...
> .



Not really strength because his jutsu does it

Same reason Sakura doesn't have a 5 in strength.


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## narut0ninjafan (Mar 8, 2011)

Hiruzen Sarutobi said:


> I don't think that feat went only to Nagato. Madara and Konan could have helped him out with that tatic.



I don't think Madara would've given Nagato a strategy to destroy Konoha and Konan just did whatever Nagato told her to.

Madara has intelligence feats due to his schemes and konanshowed intelligence feats against Madara so I think the destruction of Konoha strategy goes as Nagato's intelligence feat.


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## Crow Master Apprentice (Mar 8, 2011)

When you guys do Nagato stats are you talking about pre GM or all the paths combined?


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## DarkRasengan (Mar 8, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> You do know the Flight Technique isn't Dust Release right? From the looks of it, Onoki just lifted the turtle.



Well if it isnt, its another ability of his, he used the same thing to make the turtle float as he did to make both his bodyguards float, since the turtle doesnt know how to direct itsself oonoki guided it, learn basic reading comprehension please, oonoki couldnt even lift his bag.



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> All the Kages in the past have had a 5 in ninjutsu, DarkRasengan. Hiruzen had a 5 in all three categories.



That is completely irrelivent, his ninjutsu feats warrent a 4 at best, what if gai suddenly became hokage, would you immidiatly put his ninjutsu at a 5 since hes a kage? He has the strength to be one with gates and taijutsu. Also, the only kages we have stat totals for are the ones who got their strength with ninjutsu, Raikage got his with taijutsu.



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Shattering stone, budging the toad statues, etc. aren't feats?



When did he shatter stone with physical power? budging toad statues isnt a 5 in strength, raikage could probably lift one in base, thats like saying asuma deserves a 5 in speed because he can run pretty quick.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 8, 2011)

DarkRasengan said:


> Well if it isnt, its another ability of his, he used the same thing to make the turtle float as he did to make both his bodyguards float, since the turtle doesnt know how to direct itsself oonoki guided it, learn basic reading comprehension please, oonoki couldnt even lift his bag.


Onoki carried the Turtle above his head. And way to ignore it was a comedy moment there.




> That is completely irrelivent, his ninjutsu feats warrent a 4 at best, what if gai suddenly became hokage, would you immidiatly put his ninjutsu at a 5 since hes a kage? He has the strength to be one with gates and taijutsu. Also, the only kages we have stat totals for are the ones who got their strength with ninjutsu, Raikage got his with taijutsu.


A's fighting style is _nintaijutsu_, a combination of high ninjutsu and high taijutsu. His feats show he has a 5 in ninjutsu. And no, Gai wouldn't have a 5 if he became Hokage (he'd never have a chance to do it). Hell remember, Kakashi was going to become Hokage and he had a 5 in ninjutsu. All known Kages have a 5 in that stat. Gaara, Hiruzen, Tsunade, Kakashi (he was elected to it after all). It wouldn't make sense for the Raikage NOT to have a 5.




> When did he shatter stone with physical power? budging toad statues isnt a 5 in strength, raikage could probably lift one in base, thats like saying asuma deserves a 5 in speed because he can run pretty quick.


You don't remember breaking out of the full nelson that Preta Path put on him-AFTER Preta turned into a stone toad? Not only that, budging the toad status is a big feat. A doesn't have the feats to show he could lift one, and Asuma has a 4.5 in speed. 

Have you even checked out previous stats for precedence DarkRasengan?


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## Cursed Avenger (Mar 8, 2011)

> Nagato:
> Ninjutsu: 5
> Taijutsu: 5
> Genjutsu: 5
> ...



Is this Deva Nagato or wheelchair Nagato? There is no way wheelchair Nagato can have anything higher than 2-3 in the strength and speed department.



> Madara Uchiha (Pre-Rinnegan):
> Ninjutsu: 5
> Taijutsu: 4
> Genjutsu: 5
> ...


 
Shouldn't his stamina be a 5? He's supposed to be blessed with the strongest chakra an Uchiha has ever had and we've seen him spam his jutsu repeatedly without showing any signs of fatigue. Also 3.5 for strength? He doens't have many strength feats aside from blocking Suigetsu's sword slash....which is still one more than Nagato...




> He carried the Island Turtle...


 
Wasn't that due to his abilty...


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## ATastyMuffin (Mar 8, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Onoki carried the Turtle above his head. And way to ignore it was a comedy moment there.



Then you can argue that Kabuto has the durability to tank the strength that can _lift_ an island?

Kabuto even remarked on how *weak* the punch was. Simply put, Onoki does not have the strength to lift an island, or anything massive for that matter. It's implied he's below-average in physical capability.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 8, 2011)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Then you can argue that Kabuto has the durability to tank the strength that can _lift_ and island?
> 
> Kabuto even remarked on how *weak* the punch was. Simply put, Onoki does not have the strength to lift an island, or anything massive for that matter. It's implied he's below-average in physical capability.


Okay, fair enough.



Cursed Avenger said:


> Is this Deva Nagato or wheelchair Nagato? There is no way wheelchair Nagato can have anything higher than 2-3 in the strength and speed department.


Sasori is basically a brain in a jar yet he has a 4.5 in speed and a 3 in speed. It should be accepted that the Pain bodies show all the physical abilities Nagato should be capable of.




> Shouldn't his stamina be a 5? He's supposed to be blessed with the strongest chakra an Uchiha has ever had and we've seen him spam his jutsu repeatedly without showing any signs of fatigue. Also 3.5 for strength? He doens't have many strength feats aside from blocking Suigetsu's sword slash....which is still one more than Nagato...


No, his stamina is high, but a 5 he hasn't shown capable of. 'Strongest Chakra' doesn't mean 'strongest reserve'. He has shown to fold in fights after getting one injury and he got winded in his battle with Minato. And a 3.5 is generous for him, its above average strength but nothing special.





> Wasn't that due to his abilty...


Yeah, got confused there for a while.


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## Egotism (Mar 8, 2011)

Timeout - When did Madara got winded in his fight against Minato?


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## Egotism (Mar 8, 2011)

kagegak said:


> *Naruto Uzumaki RS*
> Ninjustu-5
> Taijutsu-5
> Genjutsu-3.5
> ...



Sasuke stamina should be a 5


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## Cursed Avenger (Mar 8, 2011)

> Sasori is basically a brain in a jar yet he has a 4.5 in speed and a 3 in speed. It should be accepted that the Pain bodies show all the physical abilities Nagato should be capable of.



Except Sasori isn't a summon and the puppet body he uses is his actual body turned into a puppet. Can you explain how the strength the modified android body has shown can be used as an example of Nagato's strength?


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 8, 2011)

Egotism said:


> Sasuke stamina should be a 5


No, he shouldn't. He should be a 4. He isn't like Naruto, Gaara, Kisame, Gai, or Jiraiya who all have 5's in stamina. Sasuke's stamina isn't really that high when it comes down to it, and his EMS would just prevent him from being blind, NOT allow him to use the MS powers willy nilly.



Cursed Avenger said:


> Except Sasori isn't a summon and the puppet body he uses is his actual body turned into a puppet. Can you explain how the strength the modified android body has shown can be used as an example of Nagato's strength?


The Paths aren't summons, and Asura's body modifications are a _Rinnegan power_ as confirmed in the Second Fanbook. The Paths use everything Nagato is capable of doing with each of the Rinnegan's powers divided up between them.

Sasori is a brain in a jar really.


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## Egotism (Mar 8, 2011)

So I guess:

In the A fight, he did Amaterasu, Blaze Release, Susano'o Bones, Chidori, A Genjutsu, Susano'o (Incomplete.)

Moments later he starting fighting Mei and he spam his Susano'o bones until it was melted. (Was not healed)

Shortly after he started to fight Danzo. In that fight he did a Genjutsu, Susanoo (Incomplete), Hawk Summoning, Susanoo (Complete), Susanoo arrow, Amaterasu. and a Chidori Spear.

So I guess his stamina stays at a four huh?


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## Judecious (Mar 8, 2011)

kagegak said:


> *Naruto Uzumaki RS*
> Ninjustu-5
> Taijutsu-5
> Genjutsu-3.5
> ...




How does sasuke seal decrease from 4 to 3.5

reduce his taijutsu though


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 8, 2011)

Egotism said:


> So I guess:
> 
> In the A fight, he did Amaterasu, Blaze Release, Susano'o Bones, Chidori, A Genjutsu, Susano'o (Incomplete.)
> 
> ...


The first part of the Kage Summit Battle showed he has high chakra, but not necessarily a 5. Hell remember, Kakashi was able to perform six Raikiri, other elemental transformations, and use his Sharingan for a significant amount of time before needing his MS against Kakuzu.

And when he confronted Danzo, he had recovered, Karin healed him twice in the battle. 

A four is still really high, but he isn't top tier stamina.


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## Egotism (Mar 8, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> The first part of the Kage Summit Battle showed he has high chakra, but not necessarily a 5. Hell remember, Kakashi was able to perform six Raikiri, other elemental transformations, and use his Sharingan for a significant amount of time before needing his MS against Kakuzu.
> 
> And when he confronted Danzo, he had recovered, Karin healed him twice in the battle.
> 
> A four is still really high, but he isn't top tier stamina.



Kakashi only did 4 Raikiri's and nothing else in that Kakazu fight. He never used his MS against Kakazu.

Yes Karin healed him but look at all he did against Danzo. Thats a shitload of stuff. Also another example of Sasuke's high stamina was when he went against Deidara. He was so drained he couldn't stand but he still had enough chakra to summon MANDA and transport the both of them out of there.


----------



## Big Mom (Mar 8, 2011)

Sasuke doesn't have very good stamina, so 4 is just right.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 8, 2011)

Egotism said:


> Kakashi only did 4 Raikiri's and nothing else in that Kakazu fight. He never used his MS against Kakazu.


He was going to use the MS against Kakuzu if Naruto didn't show up, remember?


> Yes Karin healed him but look at all he did against Danzo. Thats a shitload of stuff. Also another example of Sasuke's high stamina was when he went against Deidara. He was so drained he couldn't stand but he still had enough chakra to summon MANDA and transport the both of them out of there.


Karin healed him and helped him twice during the battle. Sasuke didn't do anything that a tier 4 stamina couldn't do especially since he got healed. Not only that, he used OROCHIMARU'S chakra to summon Manda and Suigetsu reversed summoned them.


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## kagegak (Mar 8, 2011)

*Naruto Uzumaki RS*
Ninjustu-5
Taijutsu-5
Genjutsu-3.5
Intelligence-4
Strength-5
Speed-5
Stamina-5
Seal-4

Total-36.5


*Sasuke Uchiha EMS*
Ninjustu-5
Taijutsu-5
Genjutsu-5
Intelligence-4
Strength-4
Speed-5
Stamina-4
Seal-4.5

Total-36.5


*Kakashi Hatake*
Ninjustu-5
Taijutsu-5
Genjutsu-4
Intelligence-5
Strength-3.5
Speed-4.5
Stamina-3
Seal-5

Total-35


*Sakura Haruno*
Ninjustu-3
Taijutsu-4
Genjutsu-3.5
Intelligence-4
Strength-3.5
Speed-3
Stamina-2.5
Seal-4

Total-27.5


*Madara Uchiha Rinnegan*
Ninjustu-5
Taijutsu-5
Genjutsu-5
Intelligence-5
Strength-4
Speed-5
Stamina-4
Seal-5

Total-38

*Nagato Uzumaki*
Ninjustu-5
Taijutsu-4
Genjutsu-4
Intelligence-5
Strength-4
Speed-4
Stamina-5
Seal-5

Total-36

*Kabuchimaru*
Ninjustu-5
Taijutsu-4
Genjutsu-4
Intelligence-5
Strength-4
Speed-4
Stamina-4.5
Seal-5

Total-35.5


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 8, 2011)

kagegak said:


> *Naruto Uzumaki RS*
> Ninjustu-5
> Taijutsu-5
> Genjutsu-3.5
> ...


Neither Naruto nor Sasuke should be above Nagato statwise yet. Nagato should have mostly all perfect stats. Taijutsu, Genjutsu, Inteligence, Strength, Speed, all should be near or at perfect.


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## Judecious (Mar 8, 2011)

Nagato doesn't deserve a 5 in strength or taijutsu or maybe even in speed. he didn't show anything in those field that deserves a 5

4.5


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## Kisame (Mar 8, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Kisame's stats were already laid out man. Sorry, no 5's in taijutsu or ninjutsu, just 4.5's.



Umm, so? He can always upgrade his skill, his showing against Bee was pretty impressive.


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## Egotism (Mar 8, 2011)

Depends, would Pain bodies count as Nagato? If so, then he deserves a 5 in speed because of Deva


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## Egotism (Mar 8, 2011)

_Kisame:_
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seal: 5


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## Judecious (Mar 8, 2011)

Egotism said:


> _Kisame:_
> Ninjutsu: 5
> Taijutsu: 4.5
> Genjutsu: 3
> ...



Kisame was a 4 in speed. Why would he jump to 5 now?


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## Kisame (Mar 8, 2011)

A fused Kisame, perhaps?


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## Egotism (Mar 8, 2011)

Judecious said:


> Kisame was a 4 in speed. Why would he jump to 5 now?



Fused Kisame


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## kagegak (Mar 8, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Neither Naruto nor Sasuke should be above Nagato statwise yet. Nagato should have mostly all perfect stats. Taijutsu, Genjutsu, Inteligence, Strength, Speed, all should be near or at perfect.



whats up with everybody complaining its my lists dont like it creat your own

RM naruto and EMS sasuke will be stronger than nagato

Nagato Uzumaki
Ninjustu-5 nothing wrong with this
Taijutsu-4 you cant compare him with people like gai,bee,Ei who all have a 5
Genjutsu-4 no genjutsu feats
Intelligence-5 nothing wrong with this
Strength-4 he is not that stong to get a 5 like EI,tsunade,guy,naruto
Speed-4 no speed feats
Stamina-5 nothing wrong with this
Seal-5 nothing wrong with this

dont get me wrong nagato is a powerhouse but all of his power is in ninjutsu


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 8, 2011)

Shark said:


> Umm, so? He can always upgrade his skill, his showing against Bee was pretty impressive.


Yeah, he's kind of CUSTOM MADE TO FIGHT BEE, considering his powers are a perfect counter to fight Bee's method of fighting, and Bee didn't even have his Seven Swords nor could he fight all out due to the presence of Sabu and Ponta.


----------



## kagegak (Mar 8, 2011)

Judecious said:


> Nagato doesn't deserve a 5 in strength or taijutsu or maybe even in speed. he didn't show anything in those field that deserves a 5
> 
> 4.5



oh fuck you changed your sig its too awesome
cant stop staring at it


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 8, 2011)

kagegak said:


> whats up with everybody complaining its my lists dont like it creat your own


Look at the first page. I made my own.


> RM naruto and EMS sasuke will be stronger than nagato


No, they won't. Nagato still has the superior feats and the strongest eyes in the manga. The EMS is a watered down version of the Rinnegan, remember? There are a few more powerups that Naruto and Sasuke need to have to get stronger than 'I can nuke villages and create planetoids' Nagato.



> Taijutsu-4 you cant compare him with people like gai,bee,Ei who all have a 5


Ignoring how he fights Sage Mode level fighters and could effortlessly dismantle Kakashi in taijutsu during their encounter. Yeah, he has a 5 here.


> Genjutsu-4 no genjutsu feats


He put Genjutsu traps in EVERYONE in Amegakure. Not only that, he controls Genjutsu's source, Yin and Yang. Yeah, he has a 5 here. 


> Strength-4 he is not that stong to get a 5 like EI,tsunade,guy,naruto


Catching Sage Mode punches-which can toss entire boss summons into the air with one hand means he isn't strong? 


> Speed-4 no speed feats


Did you even READ Pain's arcs? He has loads of speed feats that justify a 5.


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## kagegak (Mar 8, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Look at the first page. I made my own.
> 
> No, they won't. Nagato still has the superior feats and the strongest eyes in the manga. The EMS is a watered down version of the Rinnegan, remember? There are a few more powerups that Naruto and Sasuke need to have to get stronger than 'I can nuke villages and create planetoids' Nagato.
> 
> ...



1 naruto was owning him in sage mode after he lost his sage mode pain got the advantage to capture him

2 genjutsu traps in amegakure i think i forgot about that you still wont convince me to give him a 5 in genjutsu

3 he did catch a sage mode punch but only once against jiraiya
just bcoz he cought it doesnt me he can punch with the same power  

4 yes i did read the pain arc show me scans of his speed feats please

btw naruto will be able to nuke villlages with his bijuu dama 
just like nagato


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## shintebukuro (Mar 8, 2011)

SuperSaiyaman12 said:
			
		

> No, they won't. Nagato still has the superior feats and the strongest eyes in the manga. The EMS is a watered down version of the Rinnegan, remember?



Nagato couldn't use the Rin'negan to its full potential, or else he'd have been like Rikudou Sennin. It wasn't even naturally his; it was given to him by Madara in some fashion.



> There are a few more powerups that Naruto and Sasuke need to have to get stronger than 'I can nuke villages and create planetoids' Nagato



You have no idea how strong Naruto and Sasuke will be after their next power up.

And I don't even understand how you can think they will be getting more powerups given the current state of the manga. The author has implemented an arc where he can give screentime to all the lesser characters, so that once he's done he can focus on the insane levels of Naruto/Sasuke/Madara/Kabuto.

I doubt things are taking place the way they are so that when Naruto emerges from his new training in a different world from before, and we finally get to see Sasuke with the bandages off, that they'll be weaker than a villain from a few arcs ago.

Why would the author completely shroud the EMS in mystery if it's just going to be weaker than the eyes we saw for an entire arc years ago? Why are no details of it ever disclosed, and why is Sasuke covered in bandages for what is probably going to end up being over a year in real time? 

Nagato is going to be surpassed because he is old news. He wasn't the "reincarnation of Rikudou Sennin" like we were told; he was created in some manner and manipulated by Madara. And now Madara has his Rin'negan (in addition to Senju and Uchiha DNA).


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## Egotism (Mar 8, 2011)

Hm, this thread is kind of Bias


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 8, 2011)

kagegak said:


> 1 naruto was owning him in sage mode after he lost his sage mode pain got the advantage to capture him


Missed him catching SM Jiraiya's punches and deflecting them?


> 2 genjutsu traps in amegakure i think i forgot about that you still wont convince me to give him a 5 in genjutsu


He controls Genjutsu's _very source_. Yin and Yang.


> 3 he did catch a sage mode punch but only once against jiraiya
> just bcoz he cought it doesnt me he can punch with the same power


Sage Mode Jiraiya can send boss summons flying with a single punch.


> 4 yes i did read the pain arc show me scans of his speed feats please


Dodging Raikiris at point blank range, outrunning KN6, countering Jiraiya's fastest attacks? Ring a bell? How about dodging the FRS which can cover an entire mountain range in a second?


> btw naruto will be able to nuke villlages with his bijuu dama
> just like nagato


We don't know how his Biju Rasengan will work man. 

In time, eventually, they'll surpass Nagato. As of their current power ups? Nope.



shintebukuro said:


> Nagato couldn't use the Rin'negan to its full potential, or else he'd have been like Rikudou Sennin. It wasn't even naturally his; it was given to him by Madara in some fashion.


We saw the Rinnegan physically awaken in him. Madara couldn't physically use it. Nagato mastered the Rinnegan, he even became the Third Rikudou remember? 



> And I don't even understand how you can think they will be getting more powerups given the current state of the manga. The author has implemented an arc where he can give screentime to all the lesser characters, so that once he's done he can focus on the insane levels of Naruto/Sasuke/Madara/Kabuto.


Yeah, and despite this Nagato's feats still outclass everyone's.


> I doubt things are taking place the way they are so that when Naruto emerges from his new training in a different world from before, and we finally get to see Sasuke with the bandages off, that they'll be weaker than a villain from a few arcs ago.


You do know that Naruto isn't the standard Shonen right? Hell, we saw First Arc villains as still a massive threat, recently. Nagato's feats, as well as his invincibility are still well founded.


> Why would the author completely shroud the EMS in mystery if it's just going to be weaker than the eyes we saw for an entire arc years ago? Why are no details of it ever disclosed, and why is Sasuke covered in bandages for what is probably going to end up being over a year in real time?


Since Kishimoto loves the bait and switch. EMS is still a watered down form of the Rinnegan and Sasuke won't have the abilities Nagato had.


> Nagato is going to be surpassed because he is old news. He wasn't the "reincarnation of Rikudou Sennin" like we were told; he was created in some manner and manipulated by Madara. And now Madara has his Rin'negan (in addition to Senju and Uchiha DNA).


Are you forgetting Nagato IS a Rikudou? And until they perform superior feats, they won't be stronger than him.


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## Kisame (Mar 8, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Yeah, he's kind of CUSTOM MADE TO FIGHT BEE, considering his powers are a perfect counter to fight Bee's method of fighting, and Bee didn't even have his Seven Swords nor could he fight all out due to the presence of Sabu and Ponta.



That's not the point I know all of that.

I'm talking about the things he showed in the fight, CQC, Jutsu, etc.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 8, 2011)

Shark said:


> That's not the point I know all of that.
> 
> I'm talking about the things he showed in the fight, CQC, Jutsu, etc.


All he showed in the fight is he was fighting his preferred opponent.


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## UltimateDeadpool (Mar 8, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Missed him catching SM Jiraiya's punches and deflecting them?
> 
> He controls Genjutsu's _very source_. Yin and Yang.
> 
> ...



He caught one punch, and that shouldn't have happened since Jiraiya was shown to be faster than Human, and showed that his strikes were powerful enough to injure Human. I also don't understand how the other Peins were able to see through the smoke so clearly.

Everyone does. And characters usually aren't as good with both ninjutsu and genjutsu. 

Right, and none of Pein's bodies, except maybe Asura, have shown to be able to do the same. 

He shouldn't have been able to outrun KN6, and it may have been Jiraiya's fastest attack but it took a moment to use, giving Animal time to summon. You also overrate the speed of Rasenshuriken. Even Hell was able to dodge it, and he got taken down by Konohamaru. 

With how fanhyped up out of control Nagato/Pein is, I doubt it. 

We didn't see the Rinnegan awaken, his eyes were covered the entire time. 

This is what I was talking about earlier. Pein's feats are inconsistent. 

Now you're talking about him being invincible. With the way you hype him, Naruto and Sasuke will never surpass him. 

So you're saying that Sasuke will infact be weaker, lol. 

Feats are subjective, and I doubt anything they show will convince you that they've surpassed him.


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## MS81 (Mar 8, 2011)

Naruto:35
Ninjutsu:5
Taijutsu:5
Genjutsu:3
Stamina:5
Speed:5
Strength:5
Seals:3
Knowledge:4

Sasuke:35.5
Ninjutsu:5
Taijutsu:4
Genjutsu:5
Stamina:4
Speed:5
Strength:3.5
Seals:5
Knowledge:4

Minato:37
Ninjutsu:5
Taijutsu:5
Genjutsu:4
Stamina:4
Speed:5
Strength:4
Seals:5
Knowledge:5

Kakashi
Ninjutsu:5
Taijutsu:5
Genjutsu:4.5
Stamina:3.5
Speed:4.5
Strength:4
Seals:4.5
Knowledge:5 total=36


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 8, 2011)

UltimateDeadpool said:


> He caught one punch, and that shouldn't have happened since Jiraiya was shown to be faster than Human, and showed that his strikes were powerful enough to injure Human. I also don't understand how the other Peins were able to see through the smoke so clearly.


Since they can see chakra too? And Human caught his punch without even looking at him.


> Everyone does. And characters usually aren't as good with both ninjutsu and genjutsu.


Only Madara, Nagato, and the Rikudou Sennin mastered Yin and Yang. Yin and Yang is the very source of Genjutsu.


> Right, and none of Pein's bodies, except maybe Asura, have shown to be able to do the same.


Deva did it, why can't the other paths?


> He shouldn't have been able to outrun KN6, and it may have been Jiraiya's fastest attack but it took a moment to use, giving Animal time to summon. You also overrate the speed of Rasenshuriken. Even Hell was able to dodge it, and he got taken down by Konohamaru.


1. Translation: I don't like Pain so I just deny that he's fast and powerful.
2. The Hari Senbon is pretty much instant, it didn't take a moment to use. 
3. No, I don't. The Rasenshuriken has an actual timed and distance ratio in the manga. Crossing an entire mountain range in a single second.
3. Konohamaru merely STUNNED Hell, and had to have foreknowledge and a bushin feint-which isn't a speed blitz to do so.


> With how fanhyped up out of control Nagato/Pein is, I doubt it.


Translation: I hate Pain and I deny him any power. I deny that he was called invincible in the manga. I deny everything, and whenever someone says his power I call it fanhype.


> We didn't see the Rinnegan awaken, his eyes were covered the entire time.


That is an awakening. Don't you think his parents would have noticed if his Rinnegan wasn't activated earlier?


> This is what I was talking about earlier. Pein's feats are inconsistent.


No, they aren't. You just claim they are since you hate him and it hurts your argument. 


> Now you're talking about him being invincible. With the way you hype him, Naruto and Sasuke will never surpass him.


The manga and databooks called him invincible. Madara and Zetsu never even considered him losing a battle. So yes, if by hyping you mean actually using what the databooks and manga tells us. 


> So you're saying that Sasuke will infact be weaker, lol.


Madara never said he'd be as strong as Nagato if Sasuke would take Itachi's eyes. He'd still have the inferior dojutsu. He'd still have the inferior stamina. He'd still have the inferior ninjutsu and strategic mastery.


> Feats are subjective, and I doubt anything they show will convince you that they've surpassed him.


Feats aren't subjective, statements are. Feats are actual showings. Tell me, what in the manga has actually been shown that Sasuke or Madara or anyone can compete with Nagato storming into Konoha, kicking everyone's ass and then nuking it?

UltimateDeadpool, its clear you never give Pain credit and deny what has actually been said and shown in the manga about him.


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## Judecious (Mar 8, 2011)

Kakashi should only jump in stamina right now

taijutsu should stay 4.5 and genjutsu a 4

just saying


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## Yuna (Mar 8, 2011)

Zatoichi said:


> Intelligence: 3.5 (yes, he has matured, and he has learned new stuff, but this War arc has shown he's still kinda dumb)


Keep in mind that while Naruto tends to be naive, trusting and sometimes just downright dumb, when it comes to battle strategy, he's at times a genius, at worst great. Never once has he shown *poor* battle strategy.

He's an idiot savant like that.


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## azurelegance (Mar 8, 2011)

what's up with the Sakura 27.5s?

Sakura 40 ftw!


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## MS81 (Mar 8, 2011)

Judecious said:


> Kakashi should only jump in stamina right now
> 
> taijutsu should stay 4.5 and genjutsu a 4
> 
> just saying



Taijutsu should go to 5 and genjutsu should be at 4.5!!!

Just saying...


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## Judecious (Mar 8, 2011)

MS81 said:


> Taijutsu should go to 5 and genjutsu should be at 4.5!!!
> 
> Just saying...



He hasn't shown anything new feat in both fields

Stamina should probably be a 4 now.


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## KingBoo (Mar 8, 2011)

Broken Legs Nagato: 30.5
Nin: 5
Tai: 3
Gen: 3.5
Int: 4 (if around Tobi, add -4)
Str: 2
Spe: 3
Sta: 5
Seal: 5

Depending on the body used, each realm gets bonus points to tai, stre, and/or spe.

Tobi w/Rinnegan: 35.5
Nin: 4
Tai: 4
Gen: 5
Int: 5
Str: 4
Spe: 4.5
Sta: 5
Seal: 4

These stats are after his beating from the 1st.

Minato: 34
Nin: 4
Tai: 4
Gen: 3.5
Int: 5
Str: 3
Spe: 5
Sta: 5
Seal: 5

He died young. I think if he lived longer, he would have a 5 in nin, and small bonuses to tai gen and str.

Kushina: 40
Nin: 5
Tai: 5
Gen: 5
Int: 5
Str: 5
Spe: 5
Sta: 5
Seal: 5

Note: Add -5 to each stat if Kushina is facing off against a human male

Naruto: 29
Nin: 4.5
Tai: 4
Gen: 2
Int: 3.5
Str: 4
Spe: 4
Sta: 5
Seal: 2

With his powered up form, Naruto should get bonuses to almost all stats (+1 to all but int.) When Naruto is in combat, either add -1 to enemy int stat, or add +1 to his int stat.

Sauske: 33.5
Nin: 5
Tai: 4
Gen: 4.5
Int: 3.5 (w/ hatred add -3.5)
Str: 3.5
Spe: 4.5
Sta: 4
Seal: 4.5

KillerBee: 33
Nin: 5
Tai: 4.5
Gen: 1.5
Int: 4
Str: 5
Spe: 5
Sta: 5
Seal: 3

Yeah i know, i gave him low stat in gen, but he doesn't really need it since his demon can protect him from most genjutsu.


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## Egotism (Mar 8, 2011)

KingBoo said:


> Broken Legs Nagato: 30.5
> Nin: 5
> Tai: 3
> Gen: 3.5
> ...



In Bold: HaHaHa?


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## Kyuubi Naruto (Mar 8, 2011)

Did they give a date for Databook 4?


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## Demonofnaruto (Mar 8, 2011)

Base Naruto is as fast as Sasuke.
Remember when he outspeeded sasuke to save sakura? Even kakashi admitted that Naruto was as fast as Kakashi himself, he;'s around the same level as Sasuke too.


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## Egotism (Mar 8, 2011)

Demonofnaruto said:


> Base Naruto is as fast as Sasuke.
> Remember when he outspeeded sasuke to save sakura? Even kakashi admitted that Naruto was as fast as Kakashi himself, he;'s around the same level as Sasuke too.



He was in Sage Mode when he did that. Base Naruto isn't touching Sasuke in speed.


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## 24 Hours (Mar 8, 2011)

Whaaa? Sasuke w/ EMS is lower than Ichita?


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 8, 2011)

KingBoo said:


> Broken Legs Nagato: 30.5
> Nin: 5
> Tai: 3
> Gen: 3.5
> ...


Nagato should have a 5 again, in tai, gen, intelligence, strength, and speed. Come on, its not that hard.


> Tobi w/Rinnegan: 35.5
> Nin: 4
> Tai: 4
> Gen: 5
> ...


...why wouldn't he have perfect ninjutsu?


> Minato: 34
> Nin: 4
> Tai: 4
> Gen: 3.5
> ...


..Minato would have a 5 in ninjutsu and taijutsu. Why so low? He's a fucking Kage. He displayed masterful Space-Time Ninjutsu and incredible shape manipulation with his Rasengan.


> Kushina: 40
> Nin: 5
> Tai: 5
> Gen: 5
> ...


That's not how stats work. Not only that, Kushina isn't a perfect 40.


> Naruto: 29
> Nin: 4.5
> Tai: 4
> Gen: 2
> ...


...Naruto perfected the Rasenshuriken, perfected Sage Mode, gained a bunch of new Rasengan Variants, and you claim he DOESN'T have a 5 in ninjutsu when after every databook his ninjutsu stat increased by one? Not only that, his taijutsu has gotten much better than a 4, as has his speed and strength.


> Sauske: 33.5
> Nin: 5
> Tai: 4
> Gen: 4.5
> ...


Why would his seals increase? Not only that, why wouldn't he have a 5 in genjutsu? And why wouldn't his speed increase? And why did his taijutsu increase?


> KillerBee: 33
> Nin: 5
> Tai: 4.5
> Gen: 1.5
> ...


Sounds about right, but his genjutsu should be higher and his Tai should be perfect. Remember he effortlessly destroyed Sasuke.

You haven't seen the previous stats have you?


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## Aazadan (Mar 8, 2011)

DB stats are base only I believe so with that in mind:

Naruto
Ninjutsu 5 (SM, complete FRS, new technique)
Taijutsu 4.5 (trained it with the frogs)
Genjutsu 3.5 (he has incredible chakra control, that gives him a good defense)
Intelligence 3.5 (would make it higher but Kishi countered all that heightened intelligence shown in the Pain arc with stupidity in the war arc)
Strength 4 (generic improvement)
Speed 4 (generic improvement)
Stamina 5 (since it can't go up)
Seals 3 (he seems faster with making rasengan, he had that thought bubble to make a kb, plus general improvement just over time)
Total 32.5

Sasuke
Ninjutsu 5 (since it can't go up)
Taijutsu 4 (generic improvement)
Genjutsu 4.5 (despite it being a "weak" genjutsu, it was considered impressive that he landed them on danzou... twice)
Intelligence 4.5 (shown intelligence in his fights, seems to be a genius with his MS)
Strength 4 (generic improvement)
Speed 4.5 (doesn't seem to use speed in his fighting style anymore, so no boost)
Stamina 3.5 (lost the white snake but still ran the kage gauntlet, so no change)
Seals 4.5 (summoned something without touching the ground, fast with techniques)
Total 34.5

Minato
Ninjutsu 5 (invented rasengan/flying thunder god)
Taijutsu 4 (nothing suggests he should be higher)
Genjutsu 4 (assuming this is all defense)
Intelligence 5 (praised by everyone as a genius)
Strength 4 (nothing suggests he was overly high here)
Speed 5 (yellow flash)
Stamina 4.5 (I just don't see him as a 5, his fighting style isn't an endurance one, or even chakra intensive)
Seals 5 (death god, invented jutsu)
Total 36.5

Nagato (cripple)
Ninjutsu 5 (invented techniques, mastered all elements)
Taijutsu 2 (with an emaciated body I don't see him doing much, even though he obviously knows how)
Genjutsu 5 (yin/yang mastery, obviously overcame genjutsu's in the past... really this just hypes frog song more)
Intelligence 5 (genius, it took shikamaru to explain the strategy used)
Strength 2 (weak body)
Speed 2.5 (I doubt the machine he was in was ultra slow for travel purposes, but it probably wasn't fast enough for combat)
Stamina 5 (ran all 6 bodies, nuked Konoha, CT'ed Kyuubi, and still felt he could handle Naruto face to face)
Seals 5 (due to rinnegan)
Total 31.5


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## MS81 (Mar 9, 2011)

so lemme get this straight, everyone is giving stats to Minato and Kushina but not Kakashi???


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## DarkRasengan (Mar 9, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Onoki carried the Turtle above his head. And way to ignore it was a comedy moment there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Youve never countered any of my points at all, raikage showed 1 ninjutsu its pretty powerful, but its 1, hes not getting over a 4. Naruto was gathering sage chakra when he broke that stone body. Even tho the stone body was fragile, since instead of it tipping over the arms shattered off, which wouldnt happen if it was a strong stone.


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## Momoka (Mar 9, 2011)

Uzumaki Naruto Stat: 

Over 9000


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 9, 2011)

DarkRasengan said:


> Youve never countered any of my points at all, raikage showed 1 ninjutsu its pretty powerful, but its 1, hes not getting over a 4. Naruto was gathering sage chakra when he broke that stone body. Even tho the stone body was fragile, since instead of it tipping over the arms shattered off, which wouldnt happen if it was a strong stone.


1. What makes you think that A doesn't have other Raitons or other ninjutsu he uses. Hell, he actually used two, Raiton no Yoroi and Shunshin no Jutsu, you know that right?
2. Wrong. Naruto shattered Preta's stone arms after all his Sage Chakra was consumed by Preta. He broke out remember, he wasn't in Sage Mode. And why wouldn't the stone be strong?

DarkRasengan, you're wrong, plain and simple.


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## BrokenBonds (Mar 9, 2011)

I already did this on like two other threads, I don't feel like doing a gabillion stats again .

Wondering though, why is Madara getting so low in the strength division in some of these lists? He casually stopped a slash from the Kubikiribocho in the hands of a bloodlusted Suigetsu with one arm. He also casually ripped off his right arm with his left hand (despite being right handed) pretty much instantly.


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## DarkRasengan (Mar 9, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> 1. What makes you think that A doesn't have other Raitons or other ninjutsu he uses. Hell, he actually used two, Raiton no Yoroi and Shunshin no Jutsu, you know that right?
> 2. Wrong. Naruto shattered Preta's stone arms after all his Sage Chakra was consumed by Preta. He broke out remember, he wasn't in Sage Mode. And why wouldn't the stone be strong?
> 
> DarkRasengan, you're wrong, plain and simple.



There are no feats of him using any more, and there is no mention of him having anymore, soo we can't assume he has anymore. Thats like assuming kakashi has variants of kamui, theres no evidence at all of him having any soo we cant assume he does.

We should give kakashi a 5 in genjutsu cuz he could have tsukiomi, we should give mei a 5 in taijutsu because she could use magma fists, we can't assume things there bud, feats and panel discussion are the only things taken account for.

If the stone was strong the statue would have tipped over with naruto, not shatter, since the statue wasnt magically glued to the ground.

Whoever you are, you're wrong, its rediculous you haven't noticed yet, but nothing you say is logical.


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## MS81 (Mar 9, 2011)

Raikage nin should be a 4.5 or 5!!!


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## Klue (Mar 9, 2011)

Kyuubi Naruto said:


> Did they give a date for Databook 4?



No, we're merely hoping it sticks to its three year schedule.


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## Aazadan (Mar 9, 2011)

MS81 said:


> so lemme get this straight, everyone is giving stats to Minato and Kushina but not Kakashi???



When you think about it, he hasn't really shown anything new.  His biggest boost in stamina came in the Kakuzu fight and it wasn't reflected in his DB stats as higher stamina.

Since then Kakashi fought Deva and didn't really show any growth other than in his ninjutsu which is already a 5, a quick skirmish with Sasuke, and his big showing in the war arc is yet to come.  His speed (sasuke blitz) or his stamina (he has steadily shown more endurance) might go up half a point, but he's already 34.5.

I don't think he really has much room left to grow as far as the DB stats go.  35 or maybe an outside chance of 35.5 is going to be his peak.


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## crisler (Mar 9, 2011)

*welll*

the higher the score basically means that guy reached his limit (max potential). no need to compare with others..it's easy as you can see kurenai and itachi have same 5's in genjutsu.

i'll do with

madara
tai : 3.5
nin : 5
gen : 4
strength : 3
speed : 5
stam : 4
seal : 4
intel : 5
33.5

nagato
tai : 4.5
nin : 5
gen : 4
strenght: 4.5
speed : 5
stam : 5
seal : 4.5
intel : 4
36.5

minato
tai : 4
nin ; 5
gen : 4
strength : 4
speed : 5
stam : 3.5
seal : 4
intel : 5 (if possible i'd give him like 6~7)
35.5 remember, this seal field has nothing to do with 'fuuin'. it's a different matter, probably the motions required for jutsu

raikage
nin : 4
tai : 5
gen : 3.5
strength : 5
speed : 5
stam : 5
seal : 3
intel : 4
34.5

bee
nin: 4
tai : 5
gen : 4
strnegth : 5
speed : 5
stam : 5
seal : 3
intel : 3.5
34.5 as you've probably guessed, equal to raikage

i guess these are the 'new' guys which i'm gonna write bout

i don't really think tobi was strong in terms of stats. his s/t ability (+phasing one) was just too haxed that he was capable of dealing with everything. other ones are bad, as he's 'a shell of his former self'. too bad 5 was a max point we can gve.. and i doubt kishi's gonna give past characters more than 37, leaving the new generation to surpass them and also indicating that past generations were roughly equal in strength. i'd say anyone above getting 37 is naruto/sasuke/madara with rin. 
anyway, points can always change as kishi stated powerups are not included, and we know hiruzen had low score cuz of old age. we also know some characters died before their peak and some reached it.


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## Kisame (Mar 9, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> All he showed in the fight is he was fighting his preferred opponent.



He can use his CQC abilities, suitons, etc in just every other battle, the difference is he won't have as much stamina (he already has a lot by himself though).


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## MS81 (Mar 9, 2011)

Aazadan said:


> When you think about it, he hasn't really shown anything new.  His biggest boost in stamina came in the Kakuzu fight and it wasn't reflected in his DB stats as higher stamina.
> 
> Since then Kakashi fought Deva and didn't really show any growth other than in his ninjutsu which is already a 5, a quick skirmish with Sasuke, and his big showing in the war arc is yet to come.  His speed (sasuke blitz) or his stamina (he has steadily shown more endurance) might go up half a point, but he's already 34.5.
> 
> I don't think he really has much room left to grow as far as the DB stats go.  35 or maybe an outside chance of 35.5 is going to be his peak.



Ok, so if He use a new sealing jutsu or show new strength,speed, or stamina, Is it safe to edit our opinions?


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## kagegak (Mar 9, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Missed him catching SM Jiraiya's punches and deflecting them?
> 
> He controls Genjutsu's _very source_. Yin and Yang.
> 
> ...



1.yes he did catch a sm jiraiya punch but only once he was deflecting them using ninjustu man

2.yes he does control ying yang but please i have never seen him use powerfull genjustu technique (controlling fodder ame nins doesnt mean that 
he deserves a 5 in gen) still not convincing me to give him a 5

3.yes jiraiya can but pain cant do that he can only block atacks like that

4.Dodging Raikiris at point blank range, thats reflex not speed

countering Jiraiya's fastest attacks?again all he can do is counter

How about dodging the FRS which can cover an entire mountain range in a second? well he just dodges stuff

orochimaru was also outrunning kn6 
oro has 4.5 in speed nagato is not as fast as oro 

again dude he is not fast he has not really shown speed feats all he has shown is that he can dodge fast atacks

Bijuu dama will work he is training currently to master it it would be lame if didnt work


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## PainHyuuga (Mar 9, 2011)

Naruto Uzumaki:
Ninjutsu: 5 (+1)           4       
Taijutsu: 5 (+1.5)        4
Gentjutsu: 3 (+1)         3
Intelligence: 4 (+1)       3.5  
Strength: 5 (+1.5)        4
Speed: 4.5 (+1)            4
Sta: 5 (+0)                  5
Seal: 3 (+1.5)              3
Total: 34.5 (From 26)    30.5 (from 26)

correction.


----------



## stockholmsyndrome (Mar 9, 2011)

Naruto

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 3.5
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 4
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 3
Total: 33.5

Sasuke

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3.5
Genjutsu: 4.5
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 4
Seals: 4
Total: 33.5

Sakura

Ninjutsu: 3.5
Taijutsu: 3.5
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 4.5
Speed: 3.5
Stamina: 3.5
Seals: 4
Total: 31

Kakashi

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 4.5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 4
Seals: 5
Total: 37

Minato

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 4
Speed: 5
Stamina: 4.5
Seals: 5
Total: 38.5


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## Brawnie (Mar 9, 2011)

You placed danzou above sasuke and naruto??
Am I seeing something wrong?
Sasuke beat danzou fair and square did he not?
Nothing that made sasuke have an undeserved advantage which would grant danzou a total higher stat??


And I lol'd at chouji getting 26,5 points .. 
Not that this is unlikely.. just that chouji is the only one who managed to outclass someone with much higher stats because of his 3 pills.. (the 3 pills is a skill that goes beyond normal skills and is thus not acounted in the databooks) 
Chouji beat jirobo(23,5) when he still had a stat of 15,5 xDDDDD
Meaning that with the pills chouji beat someone 8 points higher, If chouji could do this right now .. xD 26,5+8= 34,5 
Just as strong as naruto


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## Dark Uchiha (Mar 9, 2011)

i believe databook take based attributes.

so if you think naruto should have a 5 in str and spd in base form. you have fun with that.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 9, 2011)

kagegak said:


> 1.yes he did catch a sm jiraiya punch but only once he was deflecting them using ninjustu man


Do you even get that catching a SM punch, without even looking and budging shows extremely high taijutsu skill and strength.


> 2.yes he does control ying yang but please i have never seen him use powerfull genjustu technique (controlling fodder ame nins doesnt mean that
> he deserves a 5 in gen) still not convincing me to give him a 5


You don't seem to get it at ALL. Yin and Yang make genjutsu. They are its source, as well as the Akimichi, Nara, and Yamanaka clan techs, as well as medical ninjutsu. He put genjutsu traps-which Inoichi remarked were very strong, in all of his subordinates in Amegakure. Sorry, he has a 5 in that stat.


> 3.yes jiraiya can but pain cant do that he can only block atacks like that




Catching punches that can send boss summons flying DOESN'T show high levels of strength? WTF?


> 4.Dodging Raikiris at point blank range, thats reflex not speed


You don't seem to get things at all. He stabbed Kakashi right in mid Raikri, before Kakashi even _noticed_


> again all he can do is counter


You really don't like Pain do you?



> well he just dodges stuff




'Just dodges stuff'. So if he dodged something that moved at literal light speed, you wouldn't acknowledge high speed. 


> orochimaru was also outrunning kn6
> oro has 4.5 in speed nagato is not as fast as oro


Dear god, you really don't read the manga. Orochimaru never FOUGHT KN6, he fought the unmoving KN4! 


> again dude he is not fast he has not really shown speed feats all he has shown is that he can dodge fast atacks


Dodging fast attacks and outrunning fast characters ARE speed feats.


> Bijuu dama will work he is training currently to master it it would be lame if didnt work


Reading comprehension much kid? He's training to use the Biju Rasengan since he can't use the Bijudama. Not only that, we don't even know what type of attack it'll be.



stockholmsyndrome said:


> Kakashi
> 
> Ninjutsu: 5
> Taijutsu: 5
> ...


...Kakashi hasn't increased in stats at all the past two databooks. Not only that, he hasn't shown top tier ninjutsu, top tier speed, nor stamina over a 3.5.

You basically made him stronger than the Sannin and Itachi.


Brawnie said:


> You placed danzou above sasuke and naruto??
> Am I seeing something wrong?
> Sasuke beat danzou fair and square did he not?
> Nothing that made sasuke have an undeserved advantage which would grant danzou a total higher stat??


Danzo was _holding back the entire fight_, couldn't use Shisui's eye, and nearly killed Sasuke if not for Karin's interference. Karin helped Sasuke a lot in that battle and healed him a lot.

Sorry, he didn't beat Danzo 'Fair and Square'. He beat a weakened Danzo who was purposely holding back.


----------



## Judecious (Mar 9, 2011)

MS81 said:


> Raikage nin should be a 4.5 or 5!!!



Base on what?

he hasn't shown anything and even Kisame who showed more only got a 4.5


----------



## Kyuubi Naruto (Mar 9, 2011)

Klue said:


> No, we're merely hoping it sticks to its three year schedule.


Makes sense, thanks. Hopefully it comes out soon.


----------



## hitokugutsu (Mar 9, 2011)

Naruto during Pain battle (deduction)

Nin: 5 (+1 since DB3 he learned new stuff on Frog Mountain)
Tai: 4 (+1 since DB3 since he learned Frog Katas)
Gen: 3 (+.5 since DB3: a lil better I guess)
Intel: 3.5 (+.5 increaese since DB3, becasue of on the spot thinkin)
Strength: 3.5 (same)
Speed: 4 (no speeds blitzing in base, bot no souch either)
Stamina: 5
Seal: 2
*Total: 30*
Obviously SM increases his strength/speed/ninjutsu/taijutsu. But is not included in Base Stats above.


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## stockholmsyndrome (Mar 9, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> ...Kakashi hasn't increased in stats at all the past two databooks. Not only that, he hasn't shown top tier ninjutsu, top tier speed, nor stamina over a 3.5.
> 
> You basically made him stronger than the Sannin and Itachi.


Actually he has his Taijutsu increased from 4 - 4.5 from databook 1 -2 as for Ninjutsu maybe Kakashi has not shown nuke level Ninjutsu but it really isn't Kakashi's style you have to remember he has mastered 3 elements which is incredibly rare  the only other Nin to pull of this is Mei Terumi that and he has 1000 Jutsu in his arsenal and speed is debatable at the best of times it's not unrealistic to expect a .5 improvement and stamina I think this is very clearly an area Kakashi has improved on look at what he used on Deva realm for this.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 9, 2011)

stockholmsyndrome said:


> Actually he has his Taijutsu increased from 4 - 4.5 from databook 1 -2 as for Ninjutsu maybe Kakashi has not shown nuke level Ninjutsu but it really isn't Kakashi's style you have to remember he has mastered 3 elements which is incredibly rare  the only other Nin to pull of this is Mei Terumi that and he has 1000 Jutsu in his arsenal and speed is debatable at the best of times it's not unrealistic to expect a .5 improvement and stamina I think this is very clearly an area Kakashi has improved on look at what he used on Deva realm for this.


Databook 3 didn't show ANY increase from Databook 2, recall. Kakashi always had a 5 in ninjutsu. He's plateaued, he isn't going to get any stronger. You made him stronger than Itachi and Jiraiya, who both capped at 35.5 at the last databook.



hitokugutsu said:


> Naruto during Pain battle (deduction)
> 
> Nin: 5 (+1 since DB3 he learned new stuff on Frog Mountain)
> Tai: 4 (+1 since DB3 since he learned Frog Katas)
> ...


Naruto should have at least a 4.5 or a 5 in taijutsu, he's gotten MUCH better there. His strength has increased since he can shatter stone easily now, and his speed was enough to keep up with Sasuke.


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## kagegak (Mar 9, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Do you even get that catching a SM punch, without even looking and budging shows extremely high taijutsu skill and strength.
> 
> You don't seem to get it at ALL. Yin and Yang make genjutsu. They are its source, as well as the Akimichi, Nara, and Yamanaka clan techs, as well as medical ninjutsu. He put genjutsu traps-which Inoichi remarked were very strong, in all of his subordinates in Amegakure. Sorry, he has a 5 in that stat.
> 
> ...


whats wrong u mad that i have an opinion
first off all i dont hate pain i dont hate fictional characters
i have my own opinion i think you should to respect other peoples opinion 
you are not going anywhere with this atittude 
wait for the databook to come at out

btw i dont like it when little kids like you call me a kid


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## stockholmsyndrome (Mar 9, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Databook 3 didn't show ANY increase from Databook 2, recall. Kakashi always had a 5 in ninjutsu. He's plateaued, he isn't going to get any stronger. You made him stronger than Itachi and Jiraiya, who both capped at 35.5 at the last databook.



You have to remember Itachi's stamina was wrecked by Illness every other stat apart from strength was just about maxed out Kakashi as he said he is still young and improving as been witnessed through the manga


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 9, 2011)

stockholmsyndrome said:


> You have to remember Itachi's stamina was wrecked by Illness every other stat apart from strength was just about maxed out Kakashi as he said he is still young and improving as been witnessed through the manga


Itachi's stamina wasn't affected by illnesses. The stats reflect what the characters are at their best without any power ups, bloodlines, bijuu, or illnesses. Remember, Kimimaro had a 4.5 in stamina despite being on his literal death bed. 

You would have a point if Kakashi showed ANY improvement from Databooks 2 to 3. He didn't. He stayed the same in all areas with a stat total of 34.5.


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## silenceofthelambs (Mar 9, 2011)

*Rinnegan Madara*

Ninjutsu: 5 
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5 
Strength: 5 
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5 
Seal: 5

Madara seems not to be given a five in the category of taijutsu, but all those years he spent on the battlefield would certainly have boosted his physical strength; yes, he probably disposed of a large percentage of his enemies via the Sharingan, but I wouldn't underestimate his taijutsu capabilities. He's not Lee or Gai (), but I'd assume he's got what it takes to earn a five there.

Thus for a perfect 40. 38, or 39 otherwise.


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## 24 Hours (Mar 9, 2011)

stockholmsyndrome said:


> Naruto
> 
> Ninjutsu: 5
> Taijutsu: 4.5
> ...



lol WTF is this, Sakura has genjutsu 

I bet most of the status are randomly added


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## kagegak (Mar 9, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Unlike you, I'm 24 while you type like a little kid.


how mature of you sending this message to me 
maybe that bcoz im russian english isnt my first language try to learn russian and 5 other languages that i know then we will talk


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 9, 2011)

kagegak said:


> how mature of you sending this message to me
> maybe that bcoz im russian english isnt my first language try to learn russian and 5 other languages that i know then we will talk


You could be less rude, good sir when addressing others, Kagegak.


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## kagegak (Mar 9, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> You could be less rude, good sir when addressing others, Kagegak.



me rude? no 
no but seriously
im not trying to be rude what would you do if someone made fun of your writting and called you a kid
im not being rude man 
you were the one whostarted arguing with me 
im going to stop it right here  you have your own opinion i have mine just dont tell me to change my opinion just bcoz you dont like it


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## Vergil642 (Mar 10, 2011)

Uzumaki Naruto

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 2
Intelligence: 3.5
Strength: 4
Speed: 4
Stamina: 5
Handseals: 1.5
Total: 29

Naruto's Kage level skills come from his hard hitting Ninjutsu, good battle tactics, SM and Kyuubi transformations. In Base he's not as impressive as pretty much anyone else on his level, so his stats reflect this. His Ninjutsu will increase thanks to SM, complete FRS and soon the Kyuubi mastery. His Sage training involved some Taijutsu training so that should increase at least a little. Intelligence wise he's probably going to increase, possibly up to a 4 although as his intelligence is almost purely battle related I'm not sure statwise it'll go up that much. Speed and strength increasing seems probable, but I wouldn't be surprise if they didn't improve much (dude's got SM and Kyuubi for that) and he's done no Ninjutsu training that involves handseals, so it probably won't increase.

Uchiha Sasuke

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 4
Handseals: 4
Total: 34.5

Sasuke's Taijutsu is probably going to increase after exposure to the various high end Taijutsu feats from Bee, Ei and other characters (Sharingan copying will probably allow him to incorporate some of the techniques he's seen into his own style). His Genjutsu will probably shoot right up, although it might only manage to peak at 4.5 rather than the 5 I've put. His intelligence is probably going to increase thanks to his experiences in battle and his speed will probably go up again as it tends to do so. The various comments about his chakra indicate it may have increased in volume, although it may simply be down to potency.

Nagato

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 0.5
Speed: 0.5
Stamina: 5
Handseals: 5
Total: 28

Ninjutsu is obviously top notch, his Taijutsu skills as seen through his Pain realms are probably reasonably high and I'd wager his Genjutsu skills are probably fairly good too despite lack of feats. He's not stupid but not shown amazing intelligence, but I've given him the benefit of the doubt a little here. Strength and Speed are low because he's a gorram cripple. His stamina's absurdly high though and his handseal knowledge is probably excellent. I mean, he specialises in Ninjutsu, the two often go hand in hand.

Konan

Ninjutsu: 4.5
Taijutsu: 3.5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 4
Stamina: 3.5
Handseals: 4
Total: 30

Konan's Ninjutsu is pretty good, but I'm not sure it's even worth 4.5. I say this because Kisame only got 4.5 and his Ninjutsu is significantly better. Still, I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt as I did with Nagato above. I don't see any reason to give her anything other than fairly average Taijutsu and Genjutsu stats as she's got pretty much no feats relating to either. She seems reasonably smart, but physically she's not that impressive. The fact she couldn't avoid Jiraiya's oil spit makes her look pretty slow too. Overall not bad, but certainly not great.

Uchiha Madara

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 4
Speed: 5
Stamina: 4
Handseals: 5
Total: 38

He's had a Sharingan for nearly a century and has seen fucktons of battle. That alone indicates he's copied absurd amounts of Ninjutsu. The fact he's got crazy awesome space/time jutsu further affirms he's worthy of a 5. Same goes for Taijutsu really, a prodigy of war who can copy physical movements is going to be damn good at hand to hand combat. And Genjutsu is pretty obvious. His plots and plans have been in motion for nearly a century and apart from a few setbacks he's been pretty successful. His strength seems pretty good considering he managed to casually block Suigetsu's sword with his arm and his speed is probably top tier too. I'd wager his stamina's pretty good on top of that (although it might only be 3.5) and his handseal knowledge should be insane by now.

Getting the Rinnegan wouldn't change these stats: it'd only increase his Ninjutsu capabilities which are already top notch. The only thing I'm not sure about is his stamina and strength (maybe Taijutsu could go down half a tier too) due to the whole "shell of former self" thing. It might be that he's physically fairly weak, but we'll have to wait and see.

Minato
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 3.5
Handseals: 5
Total: 35

Minato is obviously going to have a 5 in Ninjutsu, his Taijutsu is probably pretty good as his main battle tactics involve getting up close and personal with the enemy and his Genjutsu skills are probably relatively good too. His genius status gives him a 5 for intelligence, but strength and stamina have never been shown as his strong points. Speed is obviously a 5 and handseals are almost certainly a 5 as welll.

Danzou Shimura

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 4.5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 4.5
Handseals: 5
Total: 36

Ninjutsu is going to be 5, his Taijutsu seems reasonable but I might be overestimating him here. His Genjutsu skills are probably quite good considering he's got a Sharingan and Izanagi. He's probably very intelligent too considering he's a sneaky mastermind type. I see no reason to believe he's particularly strong, but he's more than fast enough to keep up with Sasuke and the cells from Hashirama should give him good stamina. Finally his handseal knowledge is probably epic considering his status.

Ei

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Handseals: 4
Total: 36

Ei's a beast in hand to hand combat. I'm sure he's going to be top tier in speed, strength and stamina as well as in hand to hand combat skills. His Ninjutsu is prbably very high, though might only be a 4.5 considering he focuses on Nin-Taijutsu. He's not proven to be that smart (but is by no means stupid) and he's shown no Genjutsu skills or affinity at all, so can't give him a good mark there.

Killer Bee

Ninjutsu: 4.5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5 
Handseals: 3.5
Total: 35

Bee's Ninjutsu is pretty good, although I don't feel like we've seen much I'm confident it's a very high stat. His Taijutsu is obviously superb and his Genjutsu skills are featless so his stat is somewhat arbitrary. He's not that intelligent but not stupid so again a reasonable score and his strength, speed and stamina are all incredible. Handseals are probably relatively low though.

Oonoki

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 3.5
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 2
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 3.5
Handseals: 5
Total: 32

His Ninjutsu will be top tier, I expect his Taijutsu skill won't be too bad but like others his Genjutsu skill is a bit arbitrary: it's hard to judge as he lacks any feats. He's probably pretty smart (at the very least he's highly experienced) but physically he doesn't seem that great. He is an old man after all and I'm not sure if his strength feat of lifting the crazy huge island turtle is strength or affected by his flight Ninjutsu. Overall very hard to judge, I'm not sure at all about Oonoki's stats.

Mei

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3.5
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 4
Stamina: 4
Handseals: 4
Total: 32

This is almost entirely guesswork. Her Ninjutsu is probably going to be excellent but in every other area she simply lacks any feats to go off.

Kabuto

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3.5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 4
Handseals: 5
Total: 35.5

Kabuto's Ninjutsu and Genjutsu are almost certainly 5s now he's absorbed Oro's cells. I mean, he was at 4.5 already so it's not a big jump. I don't think he's improved his Taijutsu at all yet, but that might well be a 4. His strength will probably have improved a little at least and I'm sure his speed's shot right up, as has his stamina.


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## Cyphon (Mar 10, 2011)

I dunno if I will map out specific individuals but I will say I don't think there will be many above the bar set with Itachi and Jiraiya. I think Kishi learned his lesson a bit from making characters a little too strong in DB1 & 2 so he probably does keep a conscious eye on these things and understands the implications of hit totals.

Maybe I look too much into it but I don't see many characters as being more well developed than either Itachi or Jiraiya. Of course I don't remember their specific total but don't expect many to land above that total.


----------



## supersaiyan146 (Mar 10, 2011)

*Minato:*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 4
Speed: 5
Stamina: 4
Handseals: 5

Total: *37.5*


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## VoDe (Mar 10, 2011)

*Naruto:*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Handseals: 3

Total: *35*

*Sasuke:*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 4
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 4
Handseals: 4

Total: *34.5*

*Sakura*

Ninjutsu: 4
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 3
Speed: 4
Stamina: 3
Handseals: 5

Total: *31.5*

*Kakashi*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 4
Handseals: 5

Total: *35.5*


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## machiavelli2009 (Mar 10, 2011)

jugo
ninjutsu: 4
taijutsu: 4
genjutsu: 2
intelligence: 3
strength: 4.5
speed: 4
stamina: 5
seals: 2
total: 28.5

hanzo
ninjutsu: 5
taijutsu: 3
genjutsu: 3
intelligence: 4.5
strength: 4
speed: 4
stamina: 4.5
seals: 4
total: 32

suigetsu
ninjutsu: 4
taijutsu:4.5
genjutsu: 3
intelligence: 4
strength: 4.5
speed: 4
stamina: 4
seals: 3

total: 31


----------



## Big Mom (Mar 10, 2011)

*Spoiler*: __ 





Hanzo:

Ninjutsu: 4.5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 4
Speed: 4
Stamina: 4
Seals: 4
Total: 32.5

Mifune: 

Ninjutsu: 4
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3.5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3
Speed: 5
Stamina: 4
Seals: 4
Total: 33.5


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## Raise Your Glass (Mar 11, 2011)

kankuro didnt get stronger at all

all he did was steal a puppet  that he probably will never be able to master


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## Synn (Mar 11, 2011)

*Ino Yamanaka*:

Ninjutsu: 4 (+0.5)
Taijutsu: 2 (+0.5)
Genjutsu: 4 (+1)
Intelligence: 4 (+1)
Strength: 2.5 (+0)
Speed: 3.5 (+1)
Stamina: 3 (+0.5)
Seal: 2.5 (+0)
Total: 25.5 (from 21)


*Fuu Yamanaka*:

Ninjutsu: 4
Taijutsu: 3
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 3.5
Stamina: 4
Seal: 3.5
Total: 29.5


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## machiavelli2009 (Mar 11, 2011)

haku ( i believe he will reappear in 4th db but this time with the proper stats)

ninjutsu: 4.5
taijutsu: 2
genjutsu: 3
intelligence: 4.5
speed: 4.5
strength: 3
stamina : 3
seals: 5
total: 29.5

nidaime
ninjutsu: 5
taijutsu: 3
genjutsu: 4
intelligence: 5
speed: 4
strength: 4
stamina: 5
seals: 5

total: 35

minato
ninjutsu: 5
taijutsu: 5
genjutsu: 4
intelligence: 5
speed: 5
strength: 3
stamina: 4.5
seals: 4.5

total: 36

darui
ninjutsu: 5
taijutsu: 4.5
genjutsu: 3
intelligence: 4
speed: 4.5
strength: 3.5
stamina: 4.5
seals :4

total: 33

shee
ninjutsu: 4 ( im assuming he has chakra scalpel as well)
taijutsu: 2.5
genjutsu: 5
intelligence: 4
speed: 4
strength: 3
stamina: 3.5
seals: 4

total: 30


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## Cursed Avenger (Mar 11, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> The Paths aren't summons, and Asura's body modifications are a _Rinnegan power_ as confirmed in the Second Fanbook. The Paths use everything Nagato is capable of doing with each of the Rinnegan's powers divided up between them.



Technically they are summons and not much different from the animal summons he uses, regardless of what Rinnegan ability they posess.

I don't recall in the fanbook or manga where it states that Nagato is able to perform those feats on his own, if he could there would be no need for multiple summons when he could just use one to channel the abilities.



> Sasori is a brain in a jar really.


 
You're overlooking the fact that he was a human puppet, which is pretty significant.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 12, 2011)

Cursed Avenger said:


> Technically they are summons and not much different from the animal summons he uses, regardless of what Rinnegan ability they posess.


Then I suppose Konan is a summon since she can be summoned with the Paths, huh? And you're completely wrong.


> I don't recall in the fanbook or manga where it states that Nagato is able to perform those feats on his own, if he could there would be no need for multiple summons when he could just use one to channel the abilities.


Konan: He who controls the Rinnegan is a master of all Six Paths of Pain's techniques. They say he is outside life and death. Nagato is the Seventh Pain, able to control life and death.

And the Fanbook confirmed that Nagato can use every one of the Path's powers even in his chair.


> You're overlooking the fact that he was a human puppet, which is pretty significant.


No, I'm not. You're chosing to ignore the fact that Sasori is really just a heart container. The Human puppet is that, a puppet.



Raise Your Glass said:


> kankuro didnt get stronger at all
> 
> all he did was steal a puppet  that he probably will never be able to master


Did you even read the battle with Sasori? He showed he has mastered the Scorpion Sasori puppet and increased the speed and timing of his Black Secret Technique. And he was put in charge of an entire division. So yes, he did get stronger.


----------



## Vatatzes (Apr 13, 2011)

Anyone know when the actual 4th databook coming out?


----------



## Sadgoob (Apr 13, 2011)

Cyphon said:


> I dunno if I will map out specific individuals but I will say I don't think there will be many above the bar set with Itachi and Jiraiya. I think Kishi learned his lesson a bit from making characters a little too strong in DB1 & 2 so he probably does keep a conscious eye on these things and understands the implications of hit totals.
> 
> Maybe I look too much into it but I don't see many characters as being more well developed than either Itachi or Jiraiya. Of course I don't remember their specific total but don't expect many to land above that total.



There's no such thing as stat totals in Kishi's databook, so he probably doesn't pay any attention to it. Asuma wouldn't have equal points to Kisame or Kakuzu if he considered it to be accurate assessment of overall ability.

Especially since they don't take in to account the caps. Itachi and Hiruzen are maxed out in five areas, Orochimaru was maxed out in four areas, but Jiraiya is maxed out in two, and Asuma in none. So given his and Asuma's fewer caps, their totals are artificially higher by comparison.


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## Faustus (Apr 13, 2011)

*Yugito:*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 4
Stamina: 5
Handseals: 4

Total: *31.5*

*Yagura:*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3
Genjutsu: 2.5
Intelligence: 3.5
Strength: 4.5
Speed: 4
Stamina: 5
Handseals: 4

Total: *31.5*

*Roushi:*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 4.5
Speed: 3.5
Stamina: 5
Handseals: 4

Total: *32*

*Han:*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 3.5
Strength: 5
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 5
Handseals: 3.5

Total: *34*

*Utakata:*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 3.5
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 4.5
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 5
Handseals: 4

Total: *35*

*Fuu:*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3.5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 4.5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Handseals: 4

Total: *34*


----------



## titantron91 (Apr 13, 2011)

I won't write stats but I'll give a few opinions which I bet most of people here get already but it won't hurt restating them again

- we're talking about base stats here (*EXCLUDE POWERUPS derived from jutsu, that includes GATES*)

- SEALS stat is "handseals" (it's how fast and how efficient you do jutsu that requires handseals)... it's not fuinjutsu

- Taijutsu are notorious for sucking at genjutsu (taijutsu = body; genjutsu = mind)... A should be given a three on Genjutsu

- Kabuto remarked that Onoki's flying blitz punch is rather weak... understandable coz he's old so strength should be 3 or even lower... Onoki's taijutsu should range from 3.5 to 4 for having skills on hand-to-hand combat while flying

- Danzo should have 3 in strength and 3.5 in speed... if it weren't for Izanagi, Sasuke would've stomped him in CQC

- Naruto has no genjutsu feats whatsoever so he should have his genjutsu at 3 maximum

- Nagato, not six paths of pain, should have 0 to 0.5 in Taijutsu, Speed, and Strength


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## Faustus (Apr 13, 2011)

titantron91 said:


> - SEALS stat is "handseals" (it's how fast and how efficient you do jutsu that requires handseals)... it's not fuinjutsu


Added for the accuracy:
In databook, fuinjutsu is a part of ninjutsu


> - Nagato, not six paths of pain, should have 0 to 0.5 in Taijutsu, Speed, and Strength




So, Sasori, who is a container, should have the same 0 in Taijutsu, Speed, and Strength? Strangely, I don't see it  in databook 

This maybe true only and if only we are talking about Edo Nagato.


----------



## kagegak (Jul 11, 2011)

*Databook Prediction*

Naruto"
Ninjutsu-9
Taijutsu-8.5
Genjutsu-5
Intelligence-7
Strength-10
Speed-10
Stamina-10
Hand Seals-7
Overall= 66.5


Sasuke
Ninjutsu-10
Taijutsu-8
Genjutsu-9.5
Intelligence-7
Strength-7.5
Speed-8
Stamina-7
Hand Seals-9
Overall= 66


Sakura
Ninjutsu-6
Taijutsu-6
Genjutsu-6.5
Intelligence-6.5
Strength-6
Speed-5
Stamina-5.5
Hand Seals-8
Overall= 49.5


Kakashi
Ninjutsu-9
Taijutsu-8
Genjutsu-8
Intelligence-9
Strength-6
Speed-7
Stamina-7
Hand Seals-9
Overall= 63


Killer Bee
Ninjutsu-8
Taijutsu-9
Genjutsu-8
Intelligence-6
Strength-9
Speed-8
Stamina-10
Hand Seals-7
Overall= 65

Raikage
Ninjutsu-8
Taijutsu-10
Genjutsu-7
Intelligence-6
Strength-10
Speed-10
Stamina-8
Hand Seals-5
Overall= 64

Minato
Ninjutsu-8
Taijutsu-9
Genjutsu-8
Intelligence-9
Strength-7
Speed-10
Stamina-7
Hand Seals-9
Overall= 67


Itachi
Ninjutsu-8
Taijutsu-8
Genjutsu-10
Intelligence-9.5
Strength-7
Speed-9
Stamina-6
Hand Seals-9
Overall= 66.5

Gaara
Ninjutsu-10
Taijutsu-5
Genjutsu-6
Intelligence-10
Strength-5
Speed-8
Stamina-10
Hand Seals-9
Overall= 63


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## tari101190 (Jul 11, 2011)

Ninjutsu, Taijutsu and Genjutsu stats represent profficiency/competence/skill at using the Jutsu they know. It's not about the number of Jutsu they know in total, use or have shown.



> Base on what?
> 
> he hasn't shown anything and even Kisame who showed more only got a 4.5




And I don't see why people are think Naruto has a suddenly gained peak human strength and speed naturally. The stats don't take into account Jutsu which enhance physical traits. Only their natural physical abilities. I don't see why any characters stats should change from the last databook, and I don't want to see them again.

I only want to see the new characters and older unkown character stats.

And I'm sure Ninjutsu stats will be 4.5 or 5 for the Kage skill level characters who specialize in Ninjutsu. Likewise for the ones who specialize in Taijutsu, like Killer Bee and A. Nobody new seems to use Genjutsu though except for C. He maybe atleast 4 if it's his specialty.

"Jutsu" stats (Nin, Tai, Gen) should be pretty high or maxed out for the Jounin level characters (Kage and bodyguards) depending on their specialties. Although the "Physical" stats (Strenghth, Speed, Stamina) should be pretty average for everyone, unless they're really old or exceptionally visably fit. So I don't really see the point guessing individual numbers, but we can guess the general values.


----------



## americaoffline (Jul 11, 2011)

I think the databook is kinda silly because of the fact it only goes up to 5.
while 1-5 is certainly a great range in expressing the skills and abilities of 99.9% of all ninjas, naruto is not about 99.9% of all ninjas, it is about the .01% who do incredible things.

For example, if the databook allowed it, naruto would easily have a 7 in stamina, and nagato would have a 6.5 in ninjutsu (at least).


----------



## Velocity (Jul 11, 2011)

So Naruto has fives across the board now?


----------



## Schiffer (Jul 11, 2011)

Naruto Uzumaki:
Ninjutsu: 5 
Taijutsu: 4 
Gentjutsu: 3 
Intelligence: 3 
Strength: 4 
Speed: 3.5 
Sta: 5 
Seal: 2 


Sasuke Uchiha:
Ninjutsu: 5 
Taijutsu: 4.5 
Genjutsu: 5 
Intelligence: 4 
Strength: 3.5 
Speed: 5 
Stamina: 4 
Seal: 4 

these are base stats , dont know why people give naruto crazy jumps in stats when he hasnt really shown much base wish.


----------



## Jizznificent (Jul 11, 2011)

*naruto
*nin: 4.5
gen: 2.5
tai: 3.5
int: 3
str: 3.5
spe: 4
sta: 5
h.seal: 1.5

*sasuke*
nin: 5
gen: 5
tai: 3.5
int: 3.5
str: 3.5
spe: 4.5
sta: 4
h.seal: 4

*kabuto
*nin: 5
gen: 4.5
tai: 3.5
int: 5
str: 3.5
spe: 4
sta: 4
h.seal: 5

*post-rinnegan madara:
*nin: 5
gen: 5
tai: 5
int: 5
str: 4
spe: 4.5
sta: 5
h.seal: 5

*konan*
nin: 5
gen: 3.5
tai: 3
int: 5
str: 3
spe: 4
sta: 4
h.seal: 5
*
nagato
*nin: 5
gen: 5
tai: 4
int: 5
str: 1
spe: 1
sta: 5
h.seal: 5
*
A*
nin: 4.5
gen: 2.5
tai: 5
int: 3.5
str: 5
spe: 5
sta: 5
h.seal: 3

*bee* 
nin: 4
gen: 3
tai: 5
int: 3
str: 5
spe: 5
sta: 5
h.seal: 3
*
ooniki*
nin: 5
gen: 3.5
tai: 4
int: 4.5
str: 2
spe: 4.5
sta: 5
h.seal: 5

*mei*
nin: 5
gen: 3
tai: 3.5
int: 4.5
str: 3
spe: 4
sta: 4
h.seal: 5


my opinion on *minato's* stats:

nin: 5
gen: 3.5
tai: 4
int: 5
str: 3.5
spe: 5
sta: 3.5
h.seal: 5

but knowing kishi and his love for *minato*, he might instead give *minato* something like this:

nin: 5
gen: 5
tai: 5
int: 5
str: 3.5
spe: 5
sta: 3.5 (heck maybe even a 5)
h.seal: 5



btw, do we have any news on the 4th databook? is it still coming out this year as predicted?


----------



## Black☆Star (Jul 11, 2011)

Nagato : 

Ninjutsu : 5
Genjutsu: 5
Taijutsu : 5
Intelligence : 5
Strength : 1
Speed : 1
Stamina : 5
Seal : 5

Healthy Nagato would have a 5 in all stats, though :ho


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## DoflaMihawk (Jul 11, 2011)

Tyki Mykk said:


> Nagato :
> 
> Ninjutsu : 5
> Genjutsu: 5
> ...



I think Strength and Speed would be at least 3 for Nagato.


----------



## Barioth (Jul 11, 2011)

Those stats are crazy. I mean I can understand in 2 1/2 years but this is no. For Naruto it is an exception. For Sasuke he barely train after ITACHI ARC.


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## Black☆Star (Jul 11, 2011)

DoflaMihawk said:


> I think Strength and Speed would be at least 3 for Nagato.



I don't know..he was anorexic and in a wheelchair.  
And now he needs Itachi to move 

3 looks a bit too much


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## hitokugutsu (Jul 11, 2011)

^ Also cripple-Gato stats for taijutsu are too high. No way he has 5/5 

More like

nin 5/5
tai 2/5
gen 5/5
intel 5/5
strength 1.5/5
speed 1.5/5
stamina 5/5
seals 5/5


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## Deleted member 175252 (Jul 11, 2011)

the stats are all based on their BASE right?


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## Jizznificent (Jul 11, 2011)

DoflaMihawk said:


> I think Strength and Speed would be at least 3 for Nagato.


3 would be to too high for a guy in his condition; he can barely move, the guy is a cripple. 3 is above average (2.5 is average ofc). it's quite obvious that nagato looks below average so, 0.5 to 2 seems fair.

but who knows, kishi might just have him pull out some kung fu shit and punching people through mountains even in that condition. 



Anar G said:


> Those stats are crazy. I mean I can understand in 2 1/2 years but this is no. For Naruto it is an exception. For Sasuke he barely train after ITACHI ARC.


well the kages summit was considered to be his "training" apparently.



hitokugutsu said:


> ^ Also cripple-Gato stats for taijutsu are too high. No way he has 5/5
> 
> More like
> 
> ...


i understand that you think 5/5 is too high but why only a 2/5 in your case? i think that he deserves, at least, slightly more than a sub-par 2/5 in the taijutsu department. even a 3.5 would suffice imo.


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## Necessary Evil (Jul 11, 2011)

*Kisame *


_Ninjutsu_: 5
_Taijutsu_: 5
_Genjutsu_: 2.5
_Inteligence_: 4
_Strength_: 5
_Speed_: 4
_Stamina_: 5
_Hand Seals_: 4

*Total * 34.5  which is fair i guess


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## Barioth (Jul 11, 2011)

Strength Speed Stamina in my opinion should go for those in favor of Brawler like Lee and Might Guy. Taijutsu not really because Taijutsu is more technique like Gentle Fist than Physical. Bee or Raikage definitely should have 5/5/5 in Strength/Speed/Stamina if not 4 for Speed.


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## Klue (Jul 11, 2011)

*Raikage*

Ninjutsu: 4.5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3.5
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Hand Seals: 3.5

*Total*: 35.5 

Sounds about right.


----------



## Barioth (Jul 11, 2011)

Just curious anyone wants to make a STAT for *MIFUNE*?

Me:
Ninjutsu: 2
Taijutsu: 3
Genjutsu: 2
Intelligent: 4.5
Strength: 3
Speed: 5
Stamina: 3
Hand Seals: 5

Total: 29.5


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## Necessary Evil (Jul 11, 2011)

Anar G said:


> Just curious anyone wants to make a STAT for *MIFUNE*?
> 
> Me:
> Ninjutsu: 2
> ...



Why you gave him ninjutsu 2 ?  he is a samurai he dont use Jutsu's,inteligent would be at 5 imo,strength at 4,and hand seals at 1 and stamina 4.5


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## Klue (Jul 11, 2011)

Anar G, are those your stats? 

*Mifune*

Ninjutsu: 3.0 
Taijutsu: 5 
Genjutsu: 2.5 
Intelligence: 5 
Strength: 4 
Speed: 5 
Stamina: 4 
Hand Seals: 3 

*Total*: 31.5


*Spoiler*: __ 




*Gato*

Ninjutsu: 0 
Taijutsu: 0.5 
Genjutsu: 0 
Intelligence: 5 
Strength: 1 
Speed: 0.5 
Stamina: 0.5 
Hand Seals: 0 

*Total*: 7.5


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## Deleted member 175252 (Jul 11, 2011)

Klue said:


> *Raikage*
> 
> Ninjutsu: 4.5
> Taijutsu: 5
> ...



thats debateable


----------



## Velocity (Jul 11, 2011)

hitokugutsu said:


> ^ Also cripple-Gato stats for taijutsu are too high. No way he has 5/5
> 
> More like
> 
> ...



Actually, no... We saw in the fight against Naruto and Jiraiya that his taijutsu is excellent. I'd say his true stats are indeed fives across the board, except for strength and speed due to his physical condition. We never actually saw him use genjutsu, but we saw how effectively he transmitted his chakra into other combatants. For that alone, the use of genjutsu is quite high.


----------



## hitokugutsu (Jul 11, 2011)

Necessary Evil said:


> *Kisame *
> 
> 
> _Ninjutsu_: 5
> ...



Kisame already had his stats revealed in DB3. He had a total of 32.5
As usual the dude is overrated 



Klue said:


> *Raikage*
> 
> Ninjutsu: 4.5
> Taijutsu: 5
> ...



Can see this happening. Perhaps his hand seals too high, but otherwise this will be it



Jizznificent said:


> 3 would be to too high for a guy in his condition; he can barely move, the guy is a cripple. 3 is above average (2.5 is average ofc). it's quite obvious that nagato looks below average so, 0.5 to 2 seems fair.
> 
> but who knows, kishi might just have him pull out some kung fu shit and punching people through mountains even in that condition.
> 
> ...



3.5 is considered slightly above average.

Sasuke in DB3 had 3.5 for his taijutsu, and he already pulled of some nice stuff with his sword and hand-to-hand combat 

Nagato isnt doing that anytime soon

Physically he cant do much in terms of taijutsu. But since _knowledge_ of taijutsu is also important and counts towards the score I gave him 2/5. And this is being generous


----------



## Klue (Jul 11, 2011)

PrazzyP said:


> thats debateable



Yeah, it should be a 5. 



hitokugutsu said:


> Can see this happening. Perhaps his hand seals too high, but otherwise this will be it



Perhaps indeed. I just wanted him to be higher than Necessary Evil's Kisame.


----------



## Jizznificent (Jul 11, 2011)

Klue said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


oh shit son!


----------



## hitokugutsu (Jul 11, 2011)

Winny said:


> Actually, no... We saw in the fight against Naruto and Jiraiya that his taijutsu is excellent. I'd say his true stats are indeed fives across the board, except for strength and speed due to his physical condition. We never actually saw him use genjutsu, but we saw how effectively he transmitted his chakra into other combatants. For that alone, the use of genjutsu is quite high.



Yess, but that was as a child. When he became older, he was pretty much crippled and in no position to perform taijutsu

Like I said before the 2/5 was based on Nagato's _knowledge and basics_ of taijutsu, which he no doubt masters. Since he has already shown that as a child. Except now he just hasnt got the body to perform



Klue said:


> Perhaps indeed. I just wanted him to be higher than Necessary Evil's Kisame.



Dont worry about that  That version of Kisame only exist in fandom. Kishi already gave us his stats


----------



## Klue (Jul 11, 2011)

*Nidaime Tsuchikage, Muu*

Ninjutsu = 5
Taijutsu = 4
Genjutsu = 4
Intelligence = 4
Strength = 3.5
Speed = 3.5
Stamina = 4
Hand Seals = 5

*Total* = 33

Muu didn't turn out right, I was expecting a perfect 40.


----------



## Barioth (Jul 11, 2011)

Necessary Evil said:


> Why you gave him ninjutsu 2 ?  he is a samurai he dont use Jutsu's,inteligent would be at 5 imo,strength at 4,and hand seals at 1 and stamina 4.5



Strength because I haven't see him carry impressive weight. Speed well is quite the Speedy that old fart.  Mifune can't do jutsu but can prevent hand seal. I don't put 5 Intelligent because there is not statement he was a Genius. Hand Seals because hey if he can seal Hanzo what the hell even if it looks like from the sword. *AS LONG ONE CAN MASTER THE ART OF CHAKRA JUTSU IT IS*. 



Klue said:


> Anar G, are those your stats?
> 
> *Mifune*
> 
> ...



Nah I meant is me as my opinion. But if it was me


----------



## Deleted member 175252 (Jul 11, 2011)

Klue said:


> Yeah, it should be a 5.



LOL, but come one raikage is stupid


----------



## Black☆Star (Jul 11, 2011)

PrazzyP said:


> LOL, but come one raikage is stupid



That when he's mad . 

When he is calm he is ...well ... not that stupid


----------



## Klue (Jul 11, 2011)

PrazzyP said:


> LOL, but come one raikage is stupid



Because he yells a lot?

Dude just loses his cool easily, he is far from stupid though.


----------



## Jizznificent (Jul 11, 2011)

hitokugutsu said:


> 3.5 is considered slightly above average.
> 
> Sasuke in DB3 had 3.5 for his taijutsu, and he already pulled of some nice stuff with his sword and hand-to-hand combat
> 
> ...


okay that's fair enough. but i would still say that no less that a 3 or 3.5 would be his stat.


----------



## Barioth (Jul 11, 2011)

PrazzyP said:


> LOL, but come one raikage is stupid



Angry Raikage > Arrogant Vengeful Sasuke


----------



## Megaharrison (Jul 11, 2011)

PrazzyP said:


> LOL, but come one raikage is stupid



He actually is fairly perceptive, he was the first to suspect something was up with Danzo at the Kage summit.

Headstrong does not equal stupid. He has probably been the most effective Kage, the Cloud is a beacon of prosperity and military strength.

I would agree his intelligence stats shouldn't be 5 though, 3.5-4 or so would suffice. Speed/Taijutsu/Ninjutsu/Strength are really his only areas that should be 5. Stamina probably 4-4.5.

As for Mifune, he shouldn't have any ninjutsu/genjutsu/hand seals stats as he doesn't use them, he uses samurai techniques. I understand this will lower his value to appear weaker, but it's not all that important if you consider the context. You get the same thing with Kenpachi in Bleach, who is among the strongest captains but has no shikai/bankai/kido.


----------



## Wrath (Jul 11, 2011)

I predict that, as always, the stats will be pointless nonsense.


----------



## Barioth (Jul 11, 2011)

Wrath said:


> I predict that, as always, the stats will be pointless nonsense.



Stats only attracts Scouter


----------



## Faustus (Jul 11, 2011)

Klue said:


> *Nidaime Tsuchikage, Muu*
> 
> Ninjutsu = 5
> Taijutsu = 4
> ...



Well, I can see him having higher:

Ninjutsu = 5
Taijutsu = 4
Genjutsu = 4
Intelligence = 5
Strength = 3.5
Speed = 4.5
Stamina = 4
Hand Seals = 5
*Total* = 35 

Intelligence *must be* 5, he immediately recognized the method Gaara used to sense him despite not having any prior information on him. Also, he must be faster than 3,5 - dodged sand hands and simultaneously performed a jutsu against Oonoki. Also, he had swords during his life time - you must be fast to use kenjutsu of high level and as a Kage and dust element user he must be expert with swords otherwise he wouldn't use them.


----------



## Velocity (Jul 11, 2011)

Hmm...

*Kabuto*
Nin - 5
Tai - 4
Gen - 5
Int - 5
Str - 4
Spe - 5
Sta - 4.5
Seals - 5
Total - 37.5

I came to this conclusion based upon Kabuto's original Third Databook stats, then added to them to take into account his own personal growth and the enhancements from absorbing Orochimaru. He gained two points between the first and second Databooks, then gained no more. I again added two points, bolstering Ninjutsu, Genjutsu, Taijutsu and Stamina by half a point each. I then added some more points to take into account Orochimaru's influence.

So ultimately he gained 2 points from personal growth and 3.5 points from absorbing Orochimaru.

*Naruto*
Nin - 5
Tai - 5
Gen - 3
Int - 4
Str - 5
Spe - 5
Sta - 5
Seals - 3
Total - 35.5

As typical, Naruto experiences a massive boost in abilities. Getting at least +1 across the board between Databooks is hardly unusual for him. His Genjutsu and Hand Seals should be average by now, while his proficiency with Ninjutsu and Taijutsu should be at an all time high thanks to his Sage Training and Nine Tails Mastery. He's a little bit smarter than he was before and his constant training has clearly improved his innate strength and speed.


----------



## Doge (Jul 11, 2011)

Naruto does NOT deserve a 4 in intelligence.  He has only showed skill in Kage Bunshin feints, which if given enough chakra, anyone with a brain =>A can perform.

He only uses one hand seal, so he won't get very much there.  And genjutsu is practically nonexistant to Naruto, so it does not deserve to go up at all.

Sasuke's stats seem somewhat believable.



Nagato CANNOT be rated.  He always uses the 6th paths, and if you counted them all almost everything would be a 5 except for genjutsu, unless chakra disruption rods count for that.

Madara is basicly powerless if not using Gedo Mazo, 6 paths, etc.  He would get little to nothing if he was not getting help from outside sources.

Madara, Nagato, and possibly Kabuto *should not be rated.* 

And Naruto is not as powerful as you think in base mode.  He is not insanely fast, his intelligence lacks, no genjutsu, lower strength, etc.


----------



## Barioth (Jul 11, 2011)

I find it funny people make Naruto smarter than he is.  Seriously if he is 4 or something is above intelligent if not his mentality is with Shino.


----------



## Friday (Jul 11, 2011)

I expect everyone to be kage level.


----------



## T-Bag (Jul 11, 2011)

Post-Rinnegan Madara

Ninjutsu = 5
Taijutsu = 4
Genjutsu = 5
Intelligence = 5
Strength = 4.5
Speed = 5
Stamina = 5
Hand Seals = 2.5

Total =  33.5


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## Klue (Jul 11, 2011)

2.5 in Hand Seals, T-Bag?


----------



## Kuromaku (Jul 12, 2011)

Having looked at the war thus far, here are some more predictions:

*Darui*
*N:* 5
*T:* 4.5
*G:* 3
*I:* 4.5
*S:* 4.5
*S:* 3.5
*S:* 4.5
*S:* 4
*Total:* 33.5

*Explanation:* Darui is basically the Kumogakure equivalent to Kakashi, with his laidback approach, his one visible eye, and his obvious talent as a ninja even among his peers.  As a user of black lightning, he obviously is highly skilled in ninjutsu, and his taijutsu score reflects his being a shinobi of Kumogakure as well as the skill he showed against the Gold-Silver Duo.  We've seen nothing to suggest that he has l33t genjutsu skills, but as an elite jounin, he should have at least a three in the area.  He's not a genius tactician like Kakashi, but appears intelligent enough to go toe to toe against the likes of Asuma.  His build suggests impressive physical strength, and his speed is clearly above average despite his name.  His stamina is solid enough that he was able to use the 5 tools of the Sage on more than one occasion, and his use of multiple jutsus suggest that he possess some knowledge and skill in using hand seals.


*Onoki*
*N:* 5
*T:* 3.5
*G:* 3.5
*I:* 5
*S:* 2.5
*S:* 4.5
*S:* 3
*S:* 5
*Total:* 32

*Explanation:* While this is probably jumping the gun, this would probably be my estimate of Onoki's overall skills.  He's obviously a ninjutsu master, and being a kage, he likely is capable of some taijutsu and genjutsu, though he has shown little of the former and none of the latter.  I based these scores on those of Deidara, who may have been a former student or protege of sorts.  He's older, and being crafty as he is, he obviously possesses above average intelligence.  Kabuto described his punches as weak, and the lifting of the turtle probably had more to do with his jutsu.  He was able to keep up with Deidara, with the latter making comments about his speed, hence the score.  He's older, so his stamina is probably less than it used to be, with Sarutobi's score being used as a basis.  As for seals, I simply took a shot in the dark.


*Hanzo*
*N:* 5
*T:* 4.5
*G:* 3.5
*I:* 4.5
*S:* 4
*S:* 3.5
*S:* 3
*S:* 4.5
*Total:* 32.5

*Explanation:* Hanzo was a legend for good reason at the time of his demise.  These stats are reflective of my best attempts to grade him at that point, after his skills had declined.  He obviously possessed mastery of ninjutsu, considering his use of traps, summons, and poison.  He also appeared to be a close range to mid range fighter with his kusarigama, suggesting that he was highly skilled in this regard.  Based on his hype, I would expect a solid, though unspectacular due to a lack of feats, score in genjutsu.  He obviously possessed an above average intellect, although he doesn't appear to have been a genius (I could be wrong though, considering he successfully transplanted a salamander's poison sac into his own body while he was still a kid - though this may be less related to his intelligence than to how hardcore a kid he was).  His physique suggests above average physical strength, although his decline in skills probably did a number on his speed and stamina.  It may have also affected his ability to use hand seals, as Mifune easily shut him down when he tried to use ninjutsu, though that may be more of a testament to Mifune's iaijutsu than anything.


*Updates to earlier attempts at scoring:*

*Nagato*
*N:* 5
*T:* 4.5
*G:* 4.5
*I:* 5
*S:*
_Main body:_ 0
_Deva:_ 3.5
_Asura:_ 5
_Human:_ 3.5
_Animal:_ 3
_Preta:_ 4
_Naraka:_ 4
*S:* 4.5
*S:* 5
*S:* 5
*Total:* 33.5/35, discounting Strength

*Explanation:* I gave Nagato a 4.5 for Speed not because of the state of his real body, but simply based on his reflexes, which are themselves part of the statistic.  He's a well rounded fighter, though he's still got nothing on Itachi.  Nagato makes up for his relative lack of finesse with pure power.


*Danzo*
*N:* 5
*T:* 4.5
*G:* 5
*I:* 5
*S:* 3
*S:* 3
*S:* 3.5
*S:* 5
*Total:* 34

*Explanation:* As Sarutobi's rival, Danzo would likely have had strong all around stats, although something had to give in order for Sarutobi to have been the superior genius.  Based on the fact that Danzo's namesake was a master of illusions, as well as his surprise at being placed in Sasuke's genjutsu, I gave him a 5 for genjutsu, and cut at his taijutsu score.  In this regard, he is  basically an older Itachi.  His physical strength and speed probably were nothing special, and while he did enhance his body with Hashirama's cells, he still was older than Sarutobi at the time of the latter's demise.  His stamina is above average, especially for someone of his age, because of his physical enhancements.


*A*
*N:* 5
*T:* 5
*G:* 3
*I:* 3.5
*S:* 5
*S:* 5
*S:* 5
*S:* 3
*Total:* 34.5

*Explanation:* Nothing much to say here other than that his stats reflect his status as quite possibly the most dangerous close combatant outside of Naruto.


*Konan*
*N:* 5
*T:* 3.5
*G:* 4.5
*I:* 4.5
*S:* 3
*S:* 4.5
*S:* 4
*S:* 4
*Total:* 33

*Explanation:* Based on what she showed, Konan mastered her paper jutsu to their full potential, and as a member of the Akatsuki, should deserve a 5 in this regard.  Her taijutsu didn't appear to be anything special, but since she showed a willingness to get up close to opponents, hinting at some competence in this regard.  Someone pointed out that the Rain nin's mental defenses looked like paper, hinting at Konan being the one to place the traps.  She obviously thought her trap for Madara through, and it would have succeeded if not for Izanagi.  Her stamina also was enough to set up 600 billion tags all the while maintaining the shape of the flowers at the shrine for her departed companions.


----------



## T-Bag (Jul 12, 2011)

Klue said:


> 2.5 in Hand Seals, T-Bag?



I put 2.5 cuz he doesn't even use hand seals in his current state. We've only seen it like one time when he extracted the kyuubi from kushina.


----------



## Dashido (Jul 12, 2011)

alex payne said:


> Lol, stats total
> 
> Let's see...
> 
> ...




I agree with this the most so far, except I would have even Naruto more points on seals.



Egotism said:


> Hm, this thread is kind of Bias



 Kinda!!??, I seriously question some peoples judgement on these stats...like A getting a 1 in Intelligence  who gets a one??!! really, he's a Kage and so far has held the highest rank ever seen in the manga imo (Leader of the Joint army)...he has to be a retarded to get a one....seriously....1?

Apart from bias people are basing the stats on different things, some on assumption going by the last data book and son strictly on feats...

I going by the characters in base and I assume Kishi did this aswell, or Naruto would get 5 in strength and Speed(due to Kyuubi mode) that said, some of these physical stats are alil crazy to.....


----------



## Deleted member 175252 (Jul 12, 2011)

naruto shouldnt be a 5 in speed or in intelligence.

these are BASE stats, not stats with RM or SM included.


----------



## Barioth (Jul 12, 2011)

Dashido said:


> I agree with this the most so far, except I would have even Naruto more points on seals.


 Most Naruto techniques so far I don't see fancy hand seals other than Shadow Clone.





Dashido said:


> Kinda!!??, I seriously question some peoples judgement on these stats...like A getting a 1 in Intelligence  who gets a one??!! really, he's a Kage and so far has held the highest rank ever seen in the manga imo (Leader of the Joint army)...he has to be a retarded to get a one....seriously....1?
> 
> Apart from bias people are basing the stats on different things, some on assumption going by the last data book and son strictly on feats...
> 
> I going by the characters in base and I assume Kishi did this aswell, or Naruto would get 5 in strength and Speed(due to Kyuubi mode) that said, some of these physical stats are alil crazy to.....



Not to be bash. But I find it funny Kishi claim Sasuke and Neji Genius back in Part 1 when clearly there Intelligent was half or 2.5 or 2 compare to Shikimaru of 5. I mean come on every Genius fights requires a brain power or two. Then again what do I know about Fighting with Strategy. Strategy =/= Predictability. Then again what is the average Intelligent of an average Shinobi 2 or 1.  Until then I can't be certain but bandwagon with Kishi.


----------



## Mangeykou Byakugan (Jul 12, 2011)

*Nagato*Speed: 4.5
Strength: 3.5
Stamina: 5 
Seals: 5 
Intelligence:5 
Tai: 4.5
Nin: 5
Gen:4

*Total: 36.5*

*A *
Speed: 5
Strength: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 3 
Intelligence:3.5
Nin: 5
Tai: 5
Gen: 4

*Total: 35.5*

*KillerBee*
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Strength: 5
Seals: 4
Tai: 5 
Intelligence: 3.5 
Nin: 5
Gen: 4.5

*Total: 37*

*Minato*
Speed:5
Strength:3.5
Stamina: 5
Seals:5
Intelligence: 5
Tai:5
Nin:5
Gen:4

*Total: 37.5*

*Madara*
Speed:5
Strength:5
Stamina:3
Seals:3.5
Intelligence:5
Tai:5
Nin: 4.5
Gen:5

*Total: 36*

*Tsuchikage*
Speed:5
Strength:4
Stamina:4
Seals:5
Nin:5
Tai:3
Gen:4
Intelligence:5

*Total:35*

*Danzo*
Speed:4
Strength:3
Stamina:5
Seals:5
Nin:5
Tai:5
Gen:5
Intellingence:4.5

*Total:36.5*

*Konan*
Speed:4
Strength:2.5
Stamina:5
Seals:4.5
Intelligence:5
Tai:3
Nin:5
Gen:4

*Total: 32*

*Sasuke*
Speed:5
Strength:3
Stamina:4
Seals:5
Intelligence:3.5
Tai:4
Nin:5
Gen:5

*Total: 34.5*

*Naruto*
Speed:4
Strength:4
Stamina:5
Seals:5
Intelligence:3
Tai:5
Nin:5
Gen:3

*Total: 33*


----------



## Barioth (Jul 12, 2011)

*PRIME SARUTOBI* 

N:5
T:5
G:5
I:5
S:5
S:5
S:5
H:5

Total: 40/40

We have a *WINNER*!


----------



## Sniffers (Jul 12, 2011)

*Spoiler*: _My prediction list_ 



*Naruto*

*Spoiler*: __ 



Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 3.5
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 4.5
Stamina: 5
Speed: 5
Seals: 3.5




*Sasuke*

*Spoiler*: __ 



Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 4.5
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 3.5
Stamina: 4
Speed: 5
Seals: 4.5




*Minato*

*Spoiler*: __ 



Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3.5
Stamina: 3.5
Speed: 5
Seals: 5




*Madara*

*Spoiler*: __ 



Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3.5
Stamina: 4
Speed: 5
Seals: 5
_*Madara may never get his stats revealed though*_




*Nagato*

*Spoiler*: __ 



Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 2
Stamina: 5
Speed: 4.5
Seals: 5
_*Pain is counted as a Ninjutsu*_




*Konan*

*Spoiler*: __ 



Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3.5
Stamina: 3.5
Speed: 4.5
Seals: 5




*Kabuto*

*Spoiler*: __ 



Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 4.5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3.5
Stamina: 4
Speed: 4.5
Seals: 5




*Danzou*

*Spoiler*: __ 



Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3
Stamina: 3.5
Speed: 4.5
Seals: 5


----------



## hitokugutsu (Jul 12, 2011)

Faustus said:


> Well, I can see him having higher:
> 
> Ninjutsu = 5
> Taijutsu = 4
> ...



Co-signed. Think that Muu will indeed turn out like this



Kuromaku said:


> Having looked at the war thus far, here are some more predictions:
> 
> *Darui*
> *N:* 5
> ...



Pretty much agree. Although I would some lil changes:
-0.5 for intelligence. 4/5 seems more appropriate. Darui hasnt shown any _real_ tactical/intelligence feats that made us go F*^ Yeah!
-0.5 for strength. 4/5 also suits him better imo. 4.5/5 is what Jiraya/Zabuza had, and they seemed a bit more buffed up then him. Also no real strength feats from him either, like kicking an opponent a distance or something
+0.5 for speed. Again 4/5 seems more appropriate. He hasnt shown any speedblitzing, but was good enough to hold his own against Gin/Kin for a while




> Onoki[/B]
> *N:* 5
> *T:* 3.5
> *G:* 3.5
> ...



Would personalle add +0.5 for genjutsu. But this is more hunch for being Kage/ well rounden then actual manga facts. So pretty much agree



> *Hanzo*
> *N:* 5
> *T:* 4.5
> *G:* 3.5
> ...



Co-signed



> *Danzo*
> *N:* 5
> *T:* 4.5
> *G:* 5
> ...



Danzo will have a total of 34, just like Old Sarutobi and Kishi likes symbolism. Thats why all the Sannin prett much had equal stats
But as for Danzo
-1 for taijutsu. He has shown nothing spectaculat for taijutsu. He killed fodder, but that doesnt count. Also Sasuke was pretty decent in taijutsu and he scored 3.5/5. That the same score I would put on Danzo
+0.5 strength. He has Hashirama's cells, upping his physical body, even if it was a little. Since Saruttobi had 3/5 at old age, I would give Danzo 3.5/5 due to Hashirama cells
+0.5 for Stamina. Sandaime had 3/5 at old age, and Danzo was upped with Shodai cells to the point that he was handling a Sharingan implanted arm. I would give him 4/5




> *A*
> *N:* 5
> *T:* 5
> *G:* 3
> ...



Agreed. Perhaps +0.5 for Intelligence. He isnt dumbs exactly, more hot-headed




> *Konan*
> *N:* 5
> *T:* 3.5
> *G:* 4.5
> ...



Would probably -0.5 for Konan Speed. She hasnt shown any speedblitzing, so 4/5 would be max for her


In general I pretty much agree with you entire list. And thats actually rare for me


----------



## MS81 (Jul 12, 2011)

I garantee Kakashi's will be like this. 
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 4.5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 3.5
Seals: 4


----------



## kry0n (Jul 15, 2011)

*Prime Hiruzen*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 4
Stamina: 4
Seals: 5
*Total: 36.5*

*Minato*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 4
Speed: 5
Stamina: 4
Seals: 5
*Total: 36.5*


----------



## Bane (Jul 15, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> These are _base_ stats. And these are Hand Seals, not Fuinjutsu. Naruto is still slower than Sasuke is in base.
> 
> Why not? He's a Kage. a 5 in Ninjutsu should be automatic.
> 
> ...



He carried the turtle by making it lighter with a ninjutsu bud.


----------



## Meruem (Jul 15, 2011)

KSM Naruto said:


> He carried the turtle by making it lighter with a ninjutsu bud.



I'd love to see a scan of this.


----------



## Shirai Ryu (Jul 15, 2011)

Madara post Rinnegan:

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Gentjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 5
Speed: 5 
Sta: 5
Seal: 5
Total: 40 

He's FV he needs max stats


----------



## Shirai Ryu (Jul 15, 2011)

Zatoichi said:


> Team 7:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



LMAO

10char


----------



## Kuromaku (Jul 15, 2011)

And now, in what will likely be a vain attempt, my evaluation of Minato.

Kishimoto recently set a new high for score totals, with Itachi and Jiraiya getting 35.5 each.  If Minato does set a new high, it will not be much higher, perhaps a 36, as detailed below.

His stats:

*N:* 5
*T:* 4.5
*G:* 4.5
*I:* 5
*S:* 3.5
*S:* 5
*S:* 3.5
*S:* 5

Minato, as the most gifted of the Hokage, was obviously a ninjutsu expert, with his mastery of space time jutsu, the creation of the Rasengan, and his knowledge of various seals, particularly those of the Uzumaki clan.

He did not appear to be a taijutsu expert, but was skilled enough to frequently engage opponents at close range.  As a genius among geniuses, he obviously was a well rounded combatant, hence his balanced scores in the fundamentals.  As for his stamina, it appeared to be solid, though unspectacular, considering that he exhausted himself after using several summoning spells, whether summoning Gamabunta or teleporting the Kyuubi and its attacks, as well as a Rasengan.


----------



## Big Mom (Jul 16, 2011)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Kisame:

*Spoiler*: __ 




Ninjutsu- 5
Taijutsu- 4.5
Genjutsu- 2.5
Intelligence- 3.5
Strength- 5
Speed- 4.5
Stamina- 5
Seals- 3.5
Total- 33.5




Danzo[Old]:

*Spoiler*: __ 




Ninjutsu- 5
Taijutsu- 3.5
Genjutsu- 5
Intelligence- 5
Strength- 3
Speed- 3.5
Stamina- 5
Seals- 5
Total- 35




Madara[Old]:

*Spoiler*: __ 




Ninjutsu- 4.5
Taijutsu- 2
Genjutsu- 5
Intelligence- 5
Strength- 3
Speed- 5
Stamina- 4
Seals- 4
Total- 32.5




Minato:

*Spoiler*: __ 




Ninjutsu- 5
Taijutsu- 4.5
Genjutsu- 3
Intelligence- 5
Strength- 3.5
Speed- 5
Stamina- 5
Seals- 5
Total- 36




Kinkaku/Ginkaku:

*Spoiler*: __ 




Ninjutsu- 4
Taijutsu- 4
Genjutsu- 2.5
Intelligence- 3
Strength- 5
Speed- 3
Stamina- 5
Seals- 5
Total- 31.5




Hanzo[Old]:

*Spoiler*: __ 




Ninjutsu- 5
Taijutsu- 4.5
Genjutsu- 3
Intelligence- 4
Strength- 3.5
Speed- 3.5
Stamina- 4
Seals- 4.5
Total- 32




Mifune[Old]:

*Spoiler*: __ 




Ninjutsu- 4
Taijutsu- 5
Genjutsu- 2.5
Intelligence- 4.5
Strength- 3.5
Speed- 5
Stamina- 4
Seals- 3.5
Total- 32




Kabuto[Current]:

*Spoiler*: __ 




Ninjutsu- 5
Taijutsu- 3.5
Genjutsu- 5
Intelligence- 5
Strength- 3
Speed- 4
Stamina- 5
Seals- 5
Total- 35.5




A:

*Spoiler*: __ 




Ninjutsu- 4.5
Taijutsu- 5
Genjutsu- 3
Intelligence- 3.5
Strength- 5
Speed- 5
Stamina- 5
Seals- 3.5
Total- 34.5




Killer Bee:

*Spoiler*: __ 




Ninjutsu- 5
Taijutsu- 5
Genjutsu- 3
Intelligence- 3
Strength- 5
Speed- 5
Stamina- 5
Seals- 4
Total- 35




Onoki[Old]:

*Spoiler*: __ 




Ninjutsu- 5
Taijutsu- 3
Genjutsu- 4
Intelligence- 4
Strength- 3
Speed- 5
Stamina- 3.5
Seals- 4
Total- 31.5




Gaara:

*Spoiler*: __ 




Ninjutsu- 5
Taijutsu- 3
Genjutsu- 4
Intelligence- 4.5
Strength- 3
Speed- 4
Stamina- 5
Seals- 4
Total- 32.5




Mei:

*Spoiler*: __ 




Ninjutsu- 5
Taijutsu- 3
Genjutsu- 4
Intelligence- 4
Strength- 3
Speed- 4
Stamina- 4
Seals- 4
Total- 31




Konan:

*Spoiler*: __ 




Ninjutsu- 5
Taijutsu- 3
Genjutsu- 3
Intelligence- 4.5
Strength- 2.5
Speed- 4.5
Stamina- 5
Seals- 5
Total- 32.5




Nagato:

*Spoiler*: __ 




Ninjutsu- 5
Taijutsu- 1
Genjutsu- 5
Intelligence- 5
Strength- 1
Speed- 1
Seals- 5
Total- 23




Deva Path Pain:

*Spoiler*: __ 




Ninjutsu- 5
Taijutsu- 4.5
Genjutsu- 3.5
Intelligence- 4
Strength- 4
Speed- 4
Stamina- 5
Seals- 3.5
Total- 33.5




Asura Path Pain:

*Spoiler*: __ 




Ninjutsu- 4
Taijutsu- 4
Genjutsu- 2.5
Intelligence- 3
Strength- 4.5
Speed- 4
Stamina- 5
Seals- 3
Total- 30




Human Path Pain:

*Spoiler*: __ 




Ninjutsu- 4
Taijutsu- 4.5
Genjutsu- 3
Intelligence- 3.5
Strength- 3
Speed- 4
Stamina- 5
Seals- 3
Total- 30




Animal Path Pain:

*Spoiler*: __ 




Ninjutsu- 5
Taijutsu- 3
Genjutsu- 3
Intelligence- 3.5
Strength- 3.5
Speed- 3.5
Stamina- 5
Seals- 4.5
Total- 31




Preta Path Pain:

*Spoiler*: __ 




Ninjutsu- 5
Taijutsu- 4
Genjutsu- 2.5
Intelligence- 3
Strength- 4
Speed- 3.5
Stamina- 5
Seals- 4.5
Total- 31.5




Naraku Path Pain:

*Spoiler*: __ 




Ninjutsu- 4
Taijutsu- 4
Genjutsu- 4
Intelligence- 2.5
Strength- 4.5
Speed- 3
Stamina- 5
Seals- 5
Total- 32




Naruto:

*Spoiler*: __ 




Ninjutsu- 5
Taijutsu- 5
Genjutsu- 3
Intelligence- 4
Strength- 5
Speed- 5
Stamina- 5
Seals- 3.5
Total- 35.5




Sasuke:

*Spoiler*: __ 




Ninjutsu- 5
Taijutsu- 4.5
Genjutsu- 5
Intelligence- 4
Strength- 3.5
Speed- 4.5
Stamina- 4
Seals- 5
Total- 35.5


----------



## Thdyingbreed (Jul 16, 2011)

I agree with your Naruto/Sasuke rating's though although Sasuke should have a 5 intelligence.

@Nagato having a 5 in stamina.
.


----------



## silentstand (Jul 16, 2011)

Hiruzen Sarutobi said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


why do the paths of pain have lower Intelligence then nagato himself?


----------



## Jizznificent (Jul 16, 2011)

silentstand said:


> why do the paths of pain have lower Intelligence then nagato himself?


 

DOES NOT COMPUTE!


----------



## icyBankai (Jul 24, 2011)

Naruto, SM, RM

Ninjutsu - 5, 5, 5
Taijutsu - 4, 5, 5
Genjutsu - 3, 4, 4
Intelligence - 4, 4, 4
Strength - 4, 5, 5
Speed - 4, 4.5, 5
Stamina - 5, 5, 5
Seals - 2, 2, 2
Total - 31, 34.5, 35

Sasuke

Ninjutsu - 5
Taijutsu - 4.5
Genjutsu - 5
Intelligence - 4
Strength - 3.5
Speed - 4.5
Stamina - 4
Seals - 4.5
Total - 35


----------



## Jizznificent (Jul 24, 2011)

*darui*
nin: 5
gen: 3
tai: 4
int: 4
str: 4
spe: 4.5
sta: 4
seals: 4.5

*shii*
nin: 4
gen: 5
tai: 3.5
int: 5
str: 3
spe: 3.5
sta: 3
seals: 4.5


----------



## VoDe (Jul 24, 2011)

*Shikamaru:*

Ninjutsu - 4
Taijutsu - 3
Genjutsu - 3
Intelligence - 5
Strength - 3
Speed - 3
Stamina - 3.5
Seals - 3.5

Total - 28

*Choji:*

Ninjutsu - 4
Taijutsu - 4
Genjutsu - 1
Intelligence - 2.5
Strength - 5
Speed - 2.5
Stamina - 4
Seals - 1 (His seals were 1.5 in databooks 1,2 but 1 in databook 3)

Total - 24

*Ino:*

Ninjutsu - 4
Taijutsu - 2
Genjutsu - 3.5
Intelligence - 3
Strength - 3
Speed - 3
Stamina - 3
Seals - 3 

Total: 24.5


----------



## Kisame3rd14 (Jul 24, 2011)

I don't see the DB pumping Naruto as much as everyone believes. Of course he should be due to some feats, but i don't think they will blantlantly state it.


----------



## Naiad (Jul 24, 2011)

VoDe said:


> *Shikamaru:*
> 
> Ninjutsu - 4
> Taijutsu - *2*
> ...


----------



## Soul King (Jul 24, 2011)

*Team 7:*

Naruto Uzumaki:
Ninjutsu: 5 (+1)
Taijutsu: 4.5 (+1)
Gentjutsu: 3 (+1)
Intelligence: 4 (+1)
Strength: 5 (+1.5)
Speed: 4.5 (+1)
Stamina: 5 (+0)
Seal: 3 (+1.5)
Total: 34 (From 26)

Sasuke Uchiha:
Ninjutsu: 5 (+0)
Taijutsu: 5 (+1.5)
Genjutsu: 5 (+1)
Intelligence: 4 (+0.5)
Strength: 5 (+2)
Speed: 5 (+0.5)
Stamina: 4 (+0.5)
Seal: 4 (+0)
Total: 37 (from 31.5)

Sakura Haruno:
Ninjutsu: 3.5 (+0.5)
Taijutsu: 5 (+2)
Genjutsu: 5 (+1.5)
Intelligence: 4 (+0)
Strength: 4 (+1)
Speed: 3(+0)
Stamina: 3 (+0.5)
Seals: 5 (+1)
Total: 32.5 (from 26)

I want to see Chōjūrō's stats, but I haven't seen enough of him to actually make stats for him.


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## Godaime Kazekage (Jul 24, 2011)

^Sasuke's not getting a 5 in strength any time soon. He's also not getting a 5 in taijutsu.


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## Jizznificent (Aug 8, 2011)

i think it's safe to say that we can now add "healthy" nagato and itachi to the list :

*healthy itachi*
nin: 5
gen: 5
tai: 4.5
int: 5
str: 3.5
spe: 5
sta: 2.5 or 3
h.seal: 5

he's stat doesn't change much - if at all.




Jizznificent said:


> *
> cripple nagato
> *nin: 5
> gen: 5
> ...


*healthy nagato*
nin: 5
gen: 5
 tai: 4
 int: 5
 str: 3.5
 spe: 4.5
 sta: 5
 h.seal: 5

i may change his stats as the fight progresses.


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## GucciBandana (Aug 23, 2011)

clearly Minato's stamina is not close to 10, Jiraiya and Naruto can go Sage Mode, he can't, and Naruto got a large amount of chakra from his mother, not Minato.
Minato is more of a Kakashi/Itachi/Orochimaru type of Ninja, I don't see him having more stamina than Orochimaru
Nin 5 Tai 4.5 Gen 3.5 Int 5 Str 3.5 Spe 5 Sta 3.5 Sea 5
total 35
he's not a taijutsu specialist, his master doesn't know much genjutsu so I doubt he knows a lot of it, plus Kakashi has Sharingan to boost his gen, Minato doesn't.
overall he's the same skill level as Orochimaru, Jiraiya or A(currently), not as strong as the 3 previous Hokages, slightly weaker than Itachi and Nagato.
first 3 Hokages were monsters lol

*A*
Nin 4.5
Tai 5
Gen 3
Int 4
Str 5
Spe 5
Sta 5
Sea 3
*total 34.5*
A is on the same level as Minato almost 20 years ago, they clashed many times but seems everytime Minato came up on top, back then he didn't know how to activate his cells to increase his reflexes and body movements, he improved but not sure if he is past Minato or not, regardless both are the same level, Sannin level ninja

*Hanzo(prime)*
Nin 5
Tai 5
Gen 3.5
Int 4.5
Str 4
Spe 4.5
Sta 4.5
Sea 4.5
*total 35.5*
a prime Hanzo is VERY strong, Jiraiya and Mifune's memory about him are both in his prime, thats why both of them are so shocked he was defeated by any ninja, as he gets older he lost his faith and his skills becomes blunt, Mifune isn't surprised he got killed anymore, he has shown great taijutsu skills as he beats Mifune with it in his prime, very fast and strong too, his seal can't be 10, because someone like Itachi or Hiruzen are clearly fast with hand movements.


----------



## Black☆Star (Aug 23, 2011)

Nagato :

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5
Total: 40


----------



## Summers (Aug 23, 2011)

Has anyone heard when this is coming out? or is it still just guess work.


----------



## GucciBandana (Aug 23, 2011)

*Senju Hashirama*
Nin 5
Tai 5
Gen 5
Int 5
Str 4
Spe 4
Sta 5
Sea 5
*total 38*
as a member of Senju clan, he has a huge amount of Chakra, which is passed down from the Sage of six path, his sta must be 5, nin and gen are shown, he used the dark genjutsu against Hiruzen, and his gen might not be as good as Itachi (5+) but at least Orochimaru's level(5), during his fight with Hiruzen he didn't show strength or speed that's on the same level as A, but his taijutsu is very good, shown during the fight with Madara as he was using numerous weapons, seal wise, as the best wood release user and one of the strongest hokage, 5 isn't overrating at all, he is very wise and intelligent, as a Hokage thats respected by everyone, even Madara himself, 5 for int.

*Senju Tobirama*
Nin 5
Tai 5
Gen 3.5
Int 5
Str 4
Spe 5
Sta 5
Sea 5
*total 37.5*
very similar to his brother, but didn't show as much genjutsu skills, but has the same level of space-time jutsu as Minato, so he is faster.

*Sarutobi Hiruzen(prime)*
Nin 5
Tai 5
Gen 5
Int 5
Str 4.5
Spe 4
Sta 4.5
Sea 5
*total 38*
mainly similar to the old version, expect for the 3 category that were affected by his age, give him a 4.5 in stre because he has to use the rod during his fight, which seems to be very heavy, and he can't use it as good in his old age, given 4.5 in sta because he did fight with the 9 tail for a longer period of time than Minato and didn't have any injured at nearly 60 years of age, his speed wasn't shown as much but he did get to Minato and the 9 tail's teleported spot earlier than everyone else did, said to be the strongest Hokage in his prime, given him the save total stats and the 1st one, tied for the strongest one with 2nd Hokage isn't much behind.

those three are monsters lol


----------



## Olympian (Aug 23, 2011)

Any thinking about Asuma and Dan`s stats? Will one improve in any way? Will another live up to any hype?


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## GucciBandana (Aug 23, 2011)

Black☆Star said:


> Nagato :
> 
> Ninjutsu: 5
> Taijutsu: 5
> ...



Nin Sta and Sea 5 for sure, even thou it is stated Kisame has the most chakra reverse in Akatsuki(5+), Nagato's is huge as well.
Taijutsu I doubt it, he barely moved after he was brought back to life, mainly relied on his summonings, and before it he tried to save Konan but lost his legs to Hanzo, not a 5 even when he could move, same goes for his speed, I think 4 at best.
Str according to his mechanical arms can be a 5, but not sure if thats "nin" or his kekki genkai or "str", his main body isn't that strong physically.
Int I say not a 5, because clearly Itachi and Kakashi has more int than him, easily used by Madara, but he is very intelligent however, can run the organization pretty well and come up with very good strategies while attacking Konoha, I give him a 4.5
also his Gen might be his biggest weakness, as stated by Jiraiya, plus he hasn't show any kind of genjutsu, I doubt its over a 3.5
*Nagato*
Nin 5
Tai 4
Gen 3.5
Int 4.5
Str 3.5-5
Spe 4
Sta 5
Sea 5
*total 33.5 - 35*
Rinnegan is prob the best kekki genkai in the series other than maybe eternal mangekyou sharingan, so his stat points doesn't show all his skills


----------



## Velocity (Aug 23, 2011)

In hindsight, I'm getting the feeling Nagato has five across the board. His strength and speed were clearly insane after he rejuvenated himself and he's obviously going to have fives for Ninjutsu, Genjutsu and Taijutsu. The only debatable thing is probably intelligence, but he wasn't an idiot so he'd have at least 4.5 for that, too.


----------



## GucciBandana (Aug 23, 2011)

Olympian said:


> Any thinking about Asuma and Dan`s stats? Will one improve in any way? Will another live up to any hype?



Asuma stays the same, same level as Gai or maybe a little weaker, his stats points will be higher because he is more of a complete ninja.

Dan is strong, as Chouza, who is an average jounin clearly stated it is very hard fighting against him, elite jounin level.



Aji Tae said:


> In hindsight, I'm getting the feeling Nagato has five across the board. His strength and speed were clearly insane after he rejuvenated himself and he's obviously going to have fives for Ninjutsu, Genjutsu and Taijutsu. The only debatable thing is probably intelligence, but he wasn't an idiot so he'd have at least 4.5 for that, too.



actually he wasn't moving that fast, in fact I doubt he moved at all by himself, he surprised Naruto and Killer Bee mainly because his invisible summoning, at the end he couldn't react to the sword Susnaoo has, he is not that fast on his own.


----------



## Haloman (Aug 23, 2011)

I'm curious how Nagato keeps getting a 5 point rating in *strength*. 

Cripple Nagato can't even carry himself, which is something even a toddler can do. 0-0.5 easily.

Healthy Nagato is strong in the sense of being a power to be reckoned with, but he's not strong like Gai is. I'm thinking he gets a 3 to 3.5 tops.


----------



## Kimimaro-kun (Aug 23, 2011)

Juugo:

Ninjutsu: 4.
Taijutsu: 4.
Genjutsu: 1.5, I doubt he can even do a genjutsu. 
Intelligence: 3, he's not very brilliant...
Strength: 5.
Speed: 4.
Stamina: 5.
Seals: 1, he's not a ninja, so he can't form seals at all. 
Total: 27.5.

Suigetsu:

Ninjutsu: 4.
Taijutsu: 4.
Genjutsu: 3.
Intelligence: 4.
Strength: 3.5.
Speed: 4.
Stamina: 3.
Seals: 2.
Total: 27.5.

Karin:

Ninjutsu: 2.
Taijutsu: 2.
Genjutsu: 4.
Intelligence: 4.5.
Strength: 1.5.
Speed: 3.
Stamina: 2.
Seals: 4.
Total: 23.

Healthy Kimimaro:

Ninjutsu: 5 (+1)
Taijutsu: 5 (+0)
Genjutsu: 3.5 (+0.5)
Intelligence: 3.5 (+0, sickness has nothing to do with this)
Strength: 4 (+1)
Speed: 5 (+0.5)
Stamina: 5 (+0.5)
Seals: 3 (+0)
Total: 34 (from 30.5)


----------



## GucciBandana (Aug 23, 2011)

I will only rate some other older or dead ninjas because they can't really improve much any more, modified bodies like Danzo gives me a lot of trouble looking at his true ability

*Onoki*
Nin 5
Tai 4
Gen 3.5
Int 5
Str 3
Spe 5
Sta 3
Sea 5
*total 34*
he has dust release, no doubt a 5 in nin, he fights with his taijutsu with the aid of the ability to fly, his taijutsu itself must be decent, however he has a bad back, hasn't shown much gen skills, but as a Kage he should know some at least, he lived long enuff to fight Madara and survived, a lot of experience, 5 for int, he is weak physically as stated by Kabuto when his clone punches him, some people might say he lifted the turtle island, but it is because of his "nin", he can make objects he touches gain the ability to fly, he was "guiding" it. his speed is 5 because his ablity to fly at a very fast rate as stated by Deidara, even at a very old age. Stamina isn't that great, shown in the fight with Muu, he is breathing hard after a few rounds, plus his old age and back problem. Seal 5 as he is a very good user of Dust and Earth release. His stats might change a little and become more accurate as he finish fighting with Muu. however he was stated to be weaker than Sarutobi and the moment of Sarutobi's death, confirmed by both Orochimaru and Kabuto.

*Darui*
Nin: 5
Tai 4.5
Gen 3
Int 4.5
Str 4
Spe 4
Sta 4
Sea 4.5
*total 33.5*
as a user of black lightning as well as storm release, he is very skilled with ninjutsu, a 5 isn't high, he is a sword master and great taijutsu user, as shown be able to pin Suigetsu to the wall and cut off Kinkaku's arm when gets the chance. unlike his partner C, he is not specialized in genjutsu, but as one of the best ninja in the allied shinobi force, must know some basics. he is very smart, shown as fighting with Kinkaku's treasure and analyzing it, also analyze Madara's movements as well, str and spe are good, but not relied on, shown in fights with Suigetsu, Kinkaku. stamina is above average, he can use the tools Kin-Gin brothers had, but no one was impressed with his chakra reverse at all compare to Raikage or Kinkaku level (5+). as a great jutsu user, good sealing techiniques are necessary.

*Kitsushi*
Nin 5
Tai 4
Gen 3
Int 4
Str 5
Spe 4
Sta 5
Sea 4
*total 34*
great earth release skills, a ninjutsu that's powerful enough to almost affect the demonic statue. good taijutsu user as he fights with his strong physical power, shown he can knock back a transformed Kinkaku, but not really as "skilled" seems. no evidence of genjutsu at all. not an elite tactician but analyzes well above average. very strong physically as shown punching a transformed Kinkaku. good speed, saved Darui twice. monstrous chakra reverse, fighting the white Zetsu and skill have enuff chakra to fight Kinkaku then later on the demonic statue. as an Earth element user, above average sealing skills are required.


----------



## Sasuke (Aug 23, 2011)

*Kisame*;
_Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 2.5 
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 4_


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## GucciBandana (Aug 23, 2011)

Halo2298 said:


> I'm curious how Nagato keeps getting a 5 point rating in *strength*.
> 
> Cripple Nagato can't even carry himself, which is something even a toddler can do. 0-0.5 easily.
> 
> Healthy Nagato is strong in the sense of being a power to be reckoned with, but he's not strong like Gai is. I'm thinking he gets a 3 to 3.5 tops.



only because Asuma Path threw Animal path very high into the air and is able to restrain Killer Bee, I agree the normal healthy Nagato has a strength level thats 3.5 max


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## Judecious (Aug 23, 2011)

Nagato
Ninjutsu-5
Taijutsu-4.5
Genjutsu-4.5
Intel-4.5
Strength-4.5
Speed-5
Stamina-5
Seal-5


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## Golden Witch (Aug 23, 2011)

Halo2298 said:


> I'm curious how Nagato keeps getting a 5 point rating in *strength*.



Probably cause of Asura Path.



> only because *Asuma *Path threw Animal path very high into the air and is able to restrain Killer Bee,


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## Jizznificent (Aug 23, 2011)

hmm from the vibe that i got from the last couple of chapers, i'm temped to change "healthy" nagato slightly to:

*"healthy" nagato #2*
nin: 5
gen: 5
 tai: 4
 int: 5
 str: 4
 spe: 4.5
 sta: 5
 h.seal: 5


either that or i'll stick with my old prediction:
*
"healthy" nagato #1*
nin: 5
gen: 5
 tai: 4
 int: 5
 str: 3.5
 spe: 4.5
 sta: 5
 h.seal: 5


----------



## Kakashi Hatake (Aug 23, 2011)

*Kakashi:*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 4
Speed: 4
Stamina: 4
Seals: 5
*Total: 37*

*Kisame:*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 5
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 4.5
*Total: 36*

*Nagato:*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3.5
Genjutsu: 3.5
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 4.5
*Total: 36*

*Minato:*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 4
*Total: 36*

*Sasuke:*
Ninjutsu: 4.5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 4.5
Intelligence: 3.5
Strength: 4.5
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 4.5
Seals: 4
*Total: 34*

*Naruto:*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 3.5
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 4
*Total: 35.5*

*Onoki:*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 4.5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5
*Total: 36*

*Tsunade:*
Ninjutsu: 3
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 5
Speed: 4
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5
*Total: 33*

*Darui:*
Ninjutsu: 4
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 5
Speed: 4
Stamina: 5
Seals: 4
*Total: 35*

*Kitsuchi:*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 5
Speed: 4
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5
*Total: 35.5*


----------



## Seraphiel (Aug 23, 2011)

Btw people I hope you know that those stats don't take MS/EMS/Sharingan into consideration from what I know. Should probably be the same for Rinnegan.


----------



## GucciBandana (Aug 23, 2011)

*Ao*
Nin 4
Tai 4.5
Gen 4
Int 5
Str 3.5
Spe 4.5
Sta 3.5
Sea 4
*total: 33*
one of the best sensor in the allied shinobi force, fought Uchiha Shisui and survived. didn't show much nin skills, but placed a seal on his Byakugan that no one else can undo it. very good taijutsu user, confident enuff to dodge the weapon placed by Fu at the very last second, more of a sensor type than taijutsu type thou. didn't show any genjutsu but is very good at undoing it. very intelligent and experienced ninja, saw thru Danzo's genjutsu and initimated Fu jus by using words. didn't show much strength, average jounin level. very agile shown in the conversation with Fu. average stamina. not much used but likely well above average sealing skills.

*C*
Nin 4
Tai 4
Gen 5
Int 5
Str 3
Spe 3
Sta 3
Sea 4.5
*total 31.5*
similar to Kurenai in the first 3 categories, very intelligent and has a lot of knowledge, analyzed Sasuke's Amateratsu with Itachi's and compared them, same with speed of A and Minato. didn't show much strength or speed, both clearly not as good as Darui's, average level stamina as well, good sealing skills are required to perform genjutsu


Kay Faraday said:


> Probably cause of Asura Path.


lmfao that was a typo, but I think Imma call him that from now, Asuma path lol


Jizznificent said:


> hmm from the vibe that i got from the last couple of chapers, i'm temped to change "healthy" nagato slightly to:
> 
> *"healthy" nagato #2*
> nin: 5
> ...


why 5 for genjutsu? Pain's weakness was genjutsu as stated by Jiraiya, and it is also proven to be true during the fight, plus Nagato never showed any genjutsu skills. speed should be lower to IMO, 4.5 is very close to a elite taijutsu specialist, which Nagato clearly isn't.


Kakashi Hatake said:


> [sp]*Kakashi:*
> Ninjutsu: 5
> Taijutsu: 5
> Genjutsu: 5
> ...


everyone's SOO high lol, around 35 is Sannin level, only very few people in the allied Shinobi force are at that level.
Kakashi is slightly weaker than Sannin at the moment, specially Orochimaru and Jiraiya, but he is most likely the strongest ninja in the allied shinobi force that is not a Kage(Mifune included, he's the leader of his country), closely followed by Kitsuchi,Darui and Ao.

I don't get why Minato gets 5 for stamina, clearly his stamina is less than Jiraiya and Naruto, those two are the only ones have enough stamina to go into Sage mode.

and I don't think Onoki is strong at all physically.


----------



## Kakashi Hatake (Aug 23, 2011)

GucciBandana said:


> everyone's SOO high lol, around 35 is Sannin level, only very few people in the allied Shinobi force are at that level.
> Kakashi is slightly weaker than Sannin at the moment, specially Orochimaru and Jiraiya, but he is most likely the strongest ninja in the allied shinobi force that is not a Kage(Mifune included, he's the leader of his country), closely followed by Kitsuchi,Darui and Ao.
> 
> I don't get why Minato gets 5 for stamina, clearly his stamina is less than Jiraiya and Naruto, those two are the only ones have enough stamina to go into Sage mode.
> ...



These stats does not show their power level. It shows which area they are more powerful in. These stats does not take into account such thing as SM, MS, Sharingan,, etc...

Otherwise Kurenai and Orochimaru would not have same genjutsu stats as Itachi.


----------



## Elite Uchiha (Aug 23, 2011)

Naruto intelligence went down.


----------



## Summers (Aug 23, 2011)

Elite Uchiha said:


> Naruto intelligence went down.



that boy be in the negatives.


----------



## Kakashi Hatake (Aug 23, 2011)

Naruto usage of Kage Bunshin is still the best and you need intelligence for that. His part one performance against Neji was also very impressive.

This current chapter made him look dumber than he was in Part 1. But lets not underrate his battle intelligence over one chapter.


----------



## GucciBandana (Aug 23, 2011)

*4th Kazekage*
nin 5
tai 3.5
gen 3.5
int 4.5
str 3
spe 3.5
sta 4
sea 4.5
*total 31.5*
possibly 2nd strongest ninja in his generation from his village after Sasori, very good magnet release user, very similar fighting styles as Gaara, due to not protected by sand when he was younger, slightly better taijutsu skills, no evidence of genjutsu shown in him or his children, but as a Kage must be decent. very observant shown when he noticing Gaara's 3rd eye, high intelligence is required as a Kage. no str or spe shown, slightly higher than Gaara, not able to avoid Gaara's hand of sand even with knowledge of it. good stamina, is able to control a large amount of gold dust, but nothing compared to Gaara's, isn't close to monstrous. good sealing skills are required for his level of ninjutsu user.


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## GucciBandana (Aug 23, 2011)

Kakashi Hatake said:


> These stats does not show their power level. It shows which area they are more powerful in. These stats does not take into account such thing as SM, MS, Sharingan,, etc...
> 
> Otherwise Kurenai and Orochimaru would not have same genjutsu stats as Itachi.



ya I know that, it shows how complete a ninja is, it doesn't include kekkei genkai, and if anyone has something above 10, still shown as 10, like u said Itachi's gen is 10+, so is Kisame's stamina.

but styll, most of the ninjas in the allied shinobi force are not as skilled as Orochimaru and Jiraiya, either have any kekkei genkai, with Orochimaru's nin possible being 10+, everything else is proper.


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (Aug 23, 2011)

Is a fourth databook even confirmed?


----------



## Jizznificent (Aug 23, 2011)

GucciBandana said:


> why 5 for genjutsu? Pain's weakness was genjutsu as stated by Jiraiya, and it is also proven to be true during the fight.


iirc i don't think genjutsu was said to be pain's "weakness". jiraiya was almost out of options since ninjutsu and taijutsu weren't working at the time so genjutsu was his last gamble and lucky for him it worked; it just so happened that pain fell for one of the strongest genjutsu in this manga - powered by senjutsu chakra.

anybody can fall for a genjutsu (just like anybody can fall for a ninjutsu) but it doesn't necessarily make it a weakness. orochimaru, kurenai and kakashi all fell into itachi's genjutsu but it doesn't make it their weakness, itachi was just too good for them.



GucciBandana said:


> Nagato never showed any genjutsu skills.


orochimaru hasn't shown any genjutsu feat either and neither has hiruzen (and not to mention that both fell for genjutsu also) but both of them have 5 in genjutsu according to the databook. feats aren't everything.

however nagato does have a genjutsu feat according to the manga: he genjutsu'ed several people in his own village. plus the way jiraiya hyped him implied that nagato could learn any type of jutsu. nagato was also mentioned to have mastered yin-yang (not surprising since he is a rikudou) and genjutsu fall into the "yin" catagory so it's not a complete stretch to think that he might have picked up a thing or two along the way. 

so based on all this evidence i gave him a 5. it might be too high but w/e. it's just a prediction thread.



GucciBandana said:


> speed should be lower to IMO, 4.5 is very close to a elite taijutsu specialist, which Nagato clearly isn't.


maybe, maybe not. idk i just took a guess with that one. i think 4 or 4.5 is cool. sasori got a 4.5 for speed but i don't remember anything too spectacular or anything "very close to an elite taijutsu specialist-ish" from him either. well either way i don't really care.


----------



## Itαchi (Aug 23, 2011)

> maybe, maybe not. idk i just took a guess with that one. i think 4 or 4.5 is cool. sasori got a 4.5 for speed but i don't remember anything too spectacular from him either. either i don't really care.



Well bot have actually good speed feats.

Nagato blitzed Bee and Sasori blitzed Chiyo(in his TF)
and blitzing kage level ninjas is quite a feat.


----------



## 24 Hours (Aug 23, 2011)

According to OP, Kabuto is a genjutsu master


----------



## Kimimaro-kun (Aug 23, 2011)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Is a fourth databook even confirmed?



I have no idea, but I'm sure it'll be a *huge* databook, so many characters are taking part in this war...


----------



## Yagura (Aug 23, 2011)

*Minato-*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 4
Seals: 5
*Total: *35.5

*Mū-*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 4.5
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 3
Seals: 4.5
*Total: *34

*A-*
Ninjutsu: 4
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 3
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 4
*Total: *34

*Killer Bee-*
Ninjutsu: 4
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 3
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 3
*Total: *33


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## Saru (Aug 23, 2011)

Yagura said:


> *Killer Bee-*
> Ninjutsu: 4
> Taijutsu: 5
> Genjutsu: 3
> ...



Hmm. I wonder if they will include the power of the Hachibi in his stat calcs, seeing as how he's a perfect Jinchuriki.


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## Judecious (Aug 23, 2011)

Kakashi Hatake said:


> *Tsunade:*
> Ninjutsu: 3
> Taijutsu: 4
> Genjutsu: 3
> ...



Oh yes Tsunade goes down from 35 to 33


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## Jizznificent (Aug 23, 2011)

Itαchi said:


> Well bot have actually good speed feats.
> 
> Nagato blitzed Bee and Sasori blitzed Chiyo(in his TF)
> and blitzing kage level ninjas is quite a feat.


well i wouldn't exactly say that they "blitzed" their respective opponent (although nagato did make it look quite easy i'll say)... but yeah i see your point.


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## Larry Uchiha (Aug 23, 2011)

Most peoples rating are just way too high tho to all the dbz justu thrown around but , i bet the  overal states are gonna be a lot lower than people expect... 
example:
 Nagato: 
 Ninjutsu: 5  
Taijutsu: 4.5  
Gentjutsu: 4  
Intelligence: 4.5 
 Strength: 4.5  
Speed: 4  
Sta: 5 
Seal:  5 
Total: 3 6.5 (1.5 stronger than Jiraiya)  ​This are the Pain statistics but i believe prime nagato would be around 36.5 or perhaps 37 or 37.5 with a 4.5 at speed and genjutsu instead of a 4. My point is, you got a guy here with not that impressive stats (only three 5) but put together he could surprass a character like Jraiya by as much a 2 to 3.5, thats a very big difference if you put it in prespective, and i did not need to put 5 all around is stats just because he is Nagato. Onoki or Mei or Madara dont need to have a pile of 5?s in their stats to statisticaly be among the top 5 ninja in the series...


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## Vice (Aug 23, 2011)

*Naruto*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 4.5
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 5
Hand Seals: 2.5
Total: 33

*Sasuke*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 4
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 4
Hand Seals: 5
Total: 35.5

*Pain*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Hand Seals: 5
Total: 40

*Madara*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 4
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Hand Seals: 5
Total: 39

*Raikage*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Hand Seals: 5
Total: 38

*Killer Bee*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 3
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Hand Seals: 4.5
Total: 36.5

*Minato*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Hand Seals: 5
Total: 38.5

*Kakashi*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 3
Hand Seals: 5
Total: 34.5

*Darui*
Ninjutsu: 4.5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 4
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 4
Hand Seals: 5
Total: 34.5

*Kinkaku/Ginkaku*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 3.5
Strength: 4
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 5
Hand Seals: 4
Total: 33

*Hanzo*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3.5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 4
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 5
Hand Seals: 5
Total: 37

*Muu*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 4.5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 4
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 4.5
Hand Seals: 5
Total: 37.5

*Fourth Kazekage*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 4
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 5
Hand Seals: 5
Total: 37

*Gaara*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3.5
Genjutsu: 4.5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 4
Speed: 4
Stamina: 5
Hand Seals: 5
Total: 36

*Itachi*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 3.5
Hand Seals: 5
Total: 37
(healthy)

And just for fun:

*Zabuza*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 2.5
Intelligence: 3.5
Strength: 4
Speed: 4
Stamina: 4
Hand Seals: 4.5
Total: 32.5
(hypothetical part 2 increase)


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## GucciBandana (Aug 23, 2011)

Jizznificent said:


> iirc i don't think genjutsu was said to be pain's "weakness". jiraiya was almost out of options since ninjutsu and taijutsu weren't working at the time so genjutsu was his last gamble and lucky for him it worked; it just so happened that pain fell for one of the strongest genjutsu in this manga - powered by senjutsu chakra.
> 
> anybody can fall for a genjutsu (just like anybody can fall for a ninjutsu) but it doesn't necessarily make it a weakness. orochimaru, kurenai and kakashi all fell into itachi's genjutsu but it doesn't make it their weakness, itachi was just too good for them.
> 
> ...



good point for saying Nagato's gen isn't a weakness, but here goes why he can't be a 5
yes Nagato can master all 5 elements and yin-yang, but without developing his rinnegan fully, he was an unknown ninja during the 3rd shinobi war as "Nagato", Hanzo mainly saw Yahiko as a threat, and at that time Nagato was mainly using the 5 elements and yin-yang I assume(possibly his rinnegan power bursted out as the death of Yahiko), which means he was good with those, but not professor level, on the other hand, Orochimaru and Hiruzen's knowledge of jutsu might be unmatched in the series, since Hiruzen can perform almost every single jutsu in Konoha, Orochimaru experiments all kinds of forbidden jutsus on his own, not a surprise both of them are this good. Nagato gained fame as "Pain" after he mastered the 6 path of his Rinnegan, and that's what he uses the most right now when he's in battle.

Sasori was very fast with his puppet body.



Itαchi said:


> Well bot have actually good speed feats.
> 
> Nagato blitzed Bee and Sasori blitzed Chiyo(in his TF)
> and blitzing kage level ninjas is quite a feat.



I don't think Nagato got Killer Bee with his own speed, he was in the invisible Snake-Tailed Chameleon right before he got near Killer Bee, as seen later on right beside him when Naruto tried to attack Nagato.



Vile said:


> [sp]*Naruto*
> Ninjutsu: 5
> Taijutsu: 4.5
> Genjutsu: 3
> ...



I think all these r wayyy too high, no one in the allied shinobi force nor zombie soldiers are stronger than Itachi and Nagato currently.

plus I won't give Kinkaku and Ginkaku the same rating, Kinkaku seems stronger overall while Ginkaku talks a lot.



Larry Uchiha said:


> Most peoples rating are just way too high tho to all the dbz justu thrown around but , i bet the  overal states are gonna be a lot lower than people expect...
> example:
> Nagato:
> Ninjutsu: 5
> ...



of course, you don't need a lot of 5s nor a 35+ overall to prove ur strong, if you have everything 4.5, thats a 36 total, better than anyone that's out currently, and if you specify in certain areas, has lets say 1 in gen and seal, but never uses them, use their advanced skills to the fullest(possible great taijutsu and high intelligence), he will be very strong and hard to defeat.


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## Soul King (Aug 23, 2011)

A little off topic, but I didn't want to make a whole other thread. Is there going to be a set date the databook comes out?


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## Kuromaku (Aug 23, 2011)

So now that the Nagato-Itachi vs B-Naruto encounter seems over and done with:

*Nagato (Healthy)*
*N:* 5
*T:* 4
*G:* 4
*I:* 5
*S:* 3.5
*S:* 4.5
*S:* 5
*S:* 5
*Total:* 36

*Explanation:* 


*Kinkaku*
*N:* 5
*T:* 4.5
*G:* 2.5
*I:* 3.5
*S:* 5
*S:* 3.5
*S:* 5
*S:* 3.5
*Total:* 32.5

*Ginkaku*
*N:* 5
*T:* 4.5
*G:* 2.5
*I:* 3
*S:* 4.5
*S:* 4
*S:* 5
*S:* 3.5
*Total:* 32

*Explanation:* I decided to do the Gold-Silver Twins together to represent their manner of fighting as a team.  They both have similar stats, although Ginkaku seemed more dependent on his brother.  Ginkaku was also a bit smaller than his brother physically speaking, hence the slightly lesser strength score assigned to him.  Their taijutsu appeared solid, and while their speed was nothing special, they worked well enough together to push back Darui and his backup.


*Yondaime Kazekage*
*N:* 5
*T:* 3
*G:* 3.5
*I:* 4.5
*S:* 3
*S:* 4
*S:* 5
*S:* 4
*Total:* 32

*Explanation:* I based his stats off of Gaara's, who has a fighting style similar to his.  I decided to up his fundamentals for Gaara's however, due to his wealth of experience compared to Gaara, even if his power and skill with sand doesn't quite compare.  I figured that since he didn't wear sand armor, he'd be much more mobile, and that as a manipulator of emotions and jutsu master who helped keep the village afloat with his talents, his ninjutsu and intelligence should reflect this.  I gave him a 5 in stamina if only because of the scale of his jutsu.


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## GucciBandana (Aug 23, 2011)

I think Minato is overrated by a lot of people here, he is the same level as Orochimaru and Jiraiya, as proven that Orochimaru was the 1st option of 4th Hokage, but because of his evilness, Hiruzen passed it on, the 2nd option was Jiraiya, but he has to travel around the world and write books and pick the child of prophecy, so it is passed on as well, Minato became 4th Hokage, for sure he deserves it even said by Madara and he is one of the most gifted Shinobi ever statement by Jiraiya, but by the time of his death, he is very young and isn't as unreal as the first 3 Hokages.
another evidence, in the most recent data book, Minato says he wishes to fight Jiraiya, if he is past Jiraiya's level why would he challenge his master? I don't see Naruto challenging Iruka. all the people they want to challenge are either: someone he has great respect for and he hasn't surpassed yet (Minato wants to fight Jiraiya, Kakashi wants to fight Minato) or someone thats his rival(Gai wants to fight Kakashi, Kurenai wants to fight Asuma), or someone thats very young but talented, and loved by the person(Hiruzen wants to fight a grown up Konohamaru, Itachi wants to fight Sasuke), and last option is others, such as Nagato wants to fight anyone to protect his friends, Orochimaru wants to fight people with unknown jutsu that can be used by him and so on.


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## GucciBandana (Aug 23, 2011)

Kuromaku said:


> So now that the Nagato-Itachi vs B-Naruto encounter seems over and done with:
> 
> *Nagato (Healthy)*
> *N:* 5
> ...



very similar to what Im thinking.
I still think Nagato's move on Killer Bee was mainly a result of the invisible summoning.
I can't do Kinkaku and Ginkaku cuz they fought mainly with tools, I guess 5 for nin, strength and stamina, they are both good taijutsu users as well, Ginkaku was able to hit Darui's 2 back up (hot and cool) easily with the rope. int lower than the 4.5 I gave Darui for sure, seal never seen any, but with the speed they use the fan, must be a 5 lol, thats what I meant I can't rate them when they r using special tools. gen was never shown, speed jus average.
and you gave 4th Kazekage a 5 for stamina? I doubt that, clearly Gaara can control a wayy larger amount of sand later on in the fight, even trap his father along with 2 other Kages, at the same time protecting himself with his mother's figure, thats why I gave him a 4 for stamina. his seal skills must be good as a Kage with a kekkei genkai, so 4.5 for that. 
everything else I agree with you.


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## efmp1987 (Aug 24, 2011)

Edo Itachi:
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Intellience: 5
Stamina: 5
Strenght: 4
Hand seal: 5
Speed: 5
--------- total: 39


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## efmp1987 (Aug 24, 2011)

It would actually be better if the grade from 1 to 100 to reduce or avaoid disparity


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## blacksword (Aug 24, 2011)

Nagato:

nin  5
gen 4
tai  5
int  4
strength - 4
stamina - 5
speed - 4
seal - 5

total: 36 

not bad


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## Creamie123 (Aug 24, 2011)

*An Approximation of Nagato (with 6 Paths)*

I think that since Sasori is merely a heart but was still given high amounts of speed, stamina and strength in the last databook, I would add the Six Paths of Pain into my calculations. 

*The calculations here are a combination of the following:
1) Personal judgement
2) Comparisons with other ninjas
3) Absolute feat comparisons 
4) Estimate of the feats needed to obtain the highest ceiling score of 5.0*. 

This would thus be my estimate for Nagato:

*Legend:*
*Green* = I would say with a 95% degree of confidence that it would be this.
*Red* = Still lacking in information. It is at most a biased estimate.

*Pain (Crippled Nagato with 6 Paths):*

*Ninjutsu: 5 *
*Reason:* Mastered all 6 nature manipulations and jutsus taught to him by Jiraiya by 10, and has unquestionably powerful and varied Rinnegan jutsus.

*Taijutsu: 4.5*
*Reason:* I think 5 would be reserved for the best, such as Lee, Gai or Bee. 4.5 was Itachi's one. I think you probably need absurd amounts of adrenalism and alacrity to hit the 5 benchmark, and from what I can see, 4.5 seems to be the most reasonable one for Pain.

*Genjutsu: 4.5 to 5.0*
*Reason:* If Orochimaru's genjutsu can be a 5 without having shown any genjutsu feats, we got to take that into consideration. However, it still remains as a mystery for Nagato, since he has shown only 1 genjutsu feat: mental barriers in his minions. This is at most a biased estimate. The only reasons why I would give it at least a 4.5 is due to the potency of his mental barriers, something more powerful that even experts in Mind jutsus (Ino's father) have difficulty penetrating, even laboriously, plus the fact that the Rinnegan allows yin-yang manipulation, as confirmed by how Jiraiya mentioned that Nagato mastered all 6 transformations (including yin-yang) at 10, which could be a showcase of his genjutsu potential and proficiency.

*Intelligence: 4.5 to 5.0*
*Reason:* I won't equate being able to master so many jutsus by 10 as being the equivalent of tactical intelligence. His strategic intelligence should be of a reasonably high level considering that he was one of the main masterminds/leaders who was organizing much of the covert activities of the Akatsuki, while his tactical intelligence is shown in his fights. To lead (Akatsuki), govern (Rain Village), execute precise tactical maneuvers with 6 bodies (Battles), plan (delegate tasks temporally efficiently to other members to combine the tailed beasts), "philosophize" (about his own diatribes and tribulations), master jutsus (by 10) require a combination of much experience, tactical, strategic and general intelligence. I did give 4.5 for this as a lower estimate, but I won't hesitate to give 5. While Itachi might have a superior tactical and general intelligence, Nagato might have a greater strategic and overall commanding intelligence in leadership and charisma.

*Stamina: 5*
*Reason:* No reason needed for this. He is an Uzumaki, and we already saw how much chakra he could pump out even in a crippled body from range.

*Strength: 4.5*
*Reason:* 5.0 seems to be reserved for the strongest like Tsunade or possibly the Raikage. Individually, the Asura Path might possibly be a 5.0, which matches Kisame's 5.0, but collectively speaking, the rest of the Paths seem to manage a healthy 4.5, minimally, and maximally. Besides, Asura is more of a Rinnegan ninjutsu ability instead of a pure physical manifestation, so I am reluctant to give it 5. A 4.5 thus seems most 'reasonable' for now.

*Hand seals: 4.5 to 5.0*
*Reason:* With so many jutsus mastered, as mentioned earlier at just age 10, and given the diversity of his jutsus, it should be at least a 4.5. If Orochimaru can be given a 5.0 in spite of his latency in using his seals against Itachi, even though he has a large diversity of hand seals, then speed of execution might be only an auxiliary factor in consideration. I would still be inclined to give it a 5.0 though, if his precociousness is a benchmark that can be pitted against Itachi. However, Orochimaru had more time (perhaps 2 decades ahead) to learn more jutsus, and was considered a prodigy as well. In spite of this, a 5.0 could very well be possible based on the speed of execution of his seals, and his large portfolio of abilities.

*Speed: 4.5*
*Reason:* Jiraiya has a 4.5 in speed, and from own personal judgement of his battle with Jiraiya, their stalemate could be an indication of matched agility. However, a better reason for why Nagato does not have a 5.0 is possibly because 5.0 will be reserved for the fastest, such as Minato or the Raikage. 


*Conclusion:*
Lowest bound estimate: 37.0 (possible, but not entirely the most probable)
Highest bound estimate: 38.5 (still possible)
*Moderate, but most probable estimate:* *37.5 or 38.0*

At either 37.5 or 38.0, he would easily get a score higher than Jiraiya or Itachi at 35.5 each. The only ones that could potentially be higher than Jiraiya or Itachi are possibly: *Minato, Raikage, Prime Madara, First Hokage, 2nd Hokage, Shisui.* The only ones that could exceed Nagato's score would probably be: *Current Madara, or the Sage of the Six Paths.*


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## GucciBandana (Aug 24, 2011)

Creamie123 said:


> I think that since Sasori is merely a heart but was still given high amounts of speed, stamina and strength in the last databook, I would add the Six Paths of Pain into my calculations.
> 
> *The calculations here are a combination of the following:
> 1) Personal judgement
> ...



if you are judging from Pain's 6 bodies, then none of them have a better taijutsu nor faster speed than Kakashi, Pain needed shared vision to battle a elite taijutsu user most of the time. plus shinra tensei makes people battling him hand to hand difficult.

Itachi and Jiraiya's 35.5 is very high, and only a few people can surpass it, Nagato is possibly one of them, he is the same level as Itachi, a little stronger than Jiraiya, but stats might not show since this is considering their kekkei genkai. I doubt Minato and Raikage are stronger than Jiraiya, but first, Madara, 2nd and 3rd in his prime are a different level.


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## Kakashi Hatake (Aug 24, 2011)

Judecious said:


> Oh yes Tsunade goes down from 35 to 33



Well lets not forget that Databook is not very accurate.


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## GucciBandana (Aug 24, 2011)

Suigetsu
Nin 4
Tai 4.5
Gen 2.5
Int 4
Str 3
Spe 4
Sta 3
Sea 3.5
total 28.5 - can confront average Akatsuki member (Kisame - 32.5) or elite Jounin (Darui - 33.5 according to me)
good water element user, but doesn't fight with ninjutsu as much as taijutsu, no genjutsu shown, doubt its higher than Zabuza's, smart fighter, shown fighting with Killer Bee, not very strong physically, calls Zabuza's sword "heavy", but can boost his strength greatly with his kekkei genkai, which isn't included in the stats. very fast, was able to threaten Sasuke with his speed. stamina isn't that good, always drinking water lol. no seal skills shown, not higher than Zabuza's. thats the 2nd coming of "demon", his brother will share very similar stats.

Jugo
Nin 3
Tai 4.5
Gen 2
Int 3
Str 5
Spe 3.5
Sta 5
Sea 2
total 28  - instantly defeated by strong Kage level (Raikage and Killer Bee, both around 34.5 according to me), can confront elite jounin level, but easily defeated (Kimimaro - 30.5)
no ninjutsu shown. good taijutsu specialist, but not as good as Kimimaro. got hit by C's genjutsu, got out of it with Sasuke's help, so skills in this area. average Int when conscious. very strong physically, can throw Sasuke high into the air, and create a big dent on the ground while punching. good speed, nothing impressive. massive stamina as stated by C. no seal skills shown, isn't used much.

both of them are around the same level as a pre-war Sai (27.5), pre-war Neji (27) or a pre-war kankuro (26.5), or slightly stronger, weak to average jounin level
I will use Konoha ninjas as an example to show my levelin
Elite Jounin+/average Kage level: Kakashi
Elite Jounin/weak Kage: none, maybe Gai with gates and Hiashi
Strong Jounin: Hiashi, Gai, Asuma
Average Jounin: Kurenai, adult Ino-Shika-Chou, Shino's father, Yamato, both of Danzo's bodyguards
Weak Jounin: pre-war Sai, pre-war Neji, Shizune, some special jounins such as Ibiki and Genma Shiranui(the guy always has a toothpick)

during the war, Sai maybe grown to an average Jounin, Shikamaru went from a strong Chuunin to a weak Jounin I guess, while Chouji went from an average Chuunin to a strong Jounin, everyone else didn't change into jounin level yet


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## GucciBandana (Aug 24, 2011)

time for some Sharingan monsters

Tobi(pre-Rinnegan)
Nin 1
Tai 4.5
Gen 5
Int 5
Str 4
Spe 5
Sta 5
Sea 5
Total 34.5
can't really use any ninjutsu since the damage from battling with Senju Hashirama. good taijutsu user, but mainly relied on his ability to become intangible, was caught by Kakashi and Yamato once. can use izanagi and can control 9 tails with his genjutsu. very intelligent, knows everything. above average strength, caught Suigetsu's sword, snapped one of Hanzo's bodyguard's neck, but nothing else shown. fastest man in the series, like Zetsu said, can go anywhere anytime he wants. has Senju's chakra, can regenerate his body, and never tired. hand seal much be amazing, can't use much, but did Izanagi without anyone noticing.

Tobi(Post Rinnegan)
Nin 5
Tai 4.5
Gen 5
Int 5
Str 4
Spe 5
Sta 5
Sea 5
Total 38.5
damn he's not lying, he IS the 2nd coming of sage of six path. mainly nin changed due to Rinnegan's ability.

Madara(maskless)
Nin 5
Tai 5
Gen 5
Int 5
Str 4
Spe 4.5
Sta 4
Sea 5
total 37.5
rivals Hashirama in almost everything, slightly faster, but less stamina, thats assuming he didn't know how to teleport to anyplace he wants at that moment.

I tried Uchiha Shisui, too little info known, I came up like this:
gen is 5 more sure, casted possibly the strongest genjutsu in the series. his speed must be 5 too according to his nickname, so his taijutsu must be close to 5. he's a genius, a man with similar ideas as Itachi, so int and seal should be 5 no problem. he is a genius but seems he fights mainly with tai and gen, so I guess his nin isn't perfect but very good. str and sta were never something the Uchiha's can use to their advantage, so
Nin 4+
Tai 4.5+
Gen 5
Int 5
Str 3
Spe 5
Sta 3.5
Sea 5
total 35+
damn how did Ao fight a monster like this and survived?yes I do think he's a current Itachi level fighter, Super Kage level, wonder if he did anything in the 3rd Shinobi war, he was prob too young back then, can't be much older than Itachi, maybe close to Kakashi's age. how did Danzo manage to take an eye from him? even Hiruzen would be having a hard time taking him down by then. but again I might be overestimating him, possible Kakashi - Jiraiya level ninja as well
hopefully Kabuto gets his eye and brings him back to life, so we can see "Shisui of the Body Flicker" in action


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## Yagura (Aug 24, 2011)

*Prime Nagato-*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3.5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 4
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5
*Total:* 35.5

*Yondaime Kazekage-*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 4
Stamina: 3.5
Seals: 4.5
*Total:* 33

*Mei-*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3.5
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 3
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 3.5
Seals: 5
*Total: *33

*Konan-*
Ninjutsu: 4.5
Taijutsu: 3.5
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 3
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 4
Seals: 4
*Total:* 32

*Darui-*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 3.5
Seals: 4
*Total:* 30.5


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## Vice (Aug 24, 2011)

A few corrections:

*Naruto*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 3.5
Strength: 4.5
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 5
Hand Seals: 3
Total: 33

*Sasuke*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 4
Hand Seals: 4
Total: 34.5

*Gaara*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 5
Hand Seals: 4.5
Total: 34.5

*Pain*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 4.5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 4.5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Hand Seals: 5
Total: 38.5

*Madara*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 4
Speed: 5
Stamina: 4
Hand Seals: 4.5
Total: 37

*Raikage*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 3.5
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Hand Seals: 3.5
Total: 35
*
Killer Bee*
Ninjutsu: 4.5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3.5
Intelligence: 3.5
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Hand Seals: 3.5
Total: 35

*Minato*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 4
Hand Seals: 5
Total: 36

*Danzo*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3
Speed: 4
Stamina: 4.5
Hand Seals: 5
Total: 35.5

*Darui*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 4
Speed: 4
Stamina: 4
Hand Seals: 4
Total: 33

*Kisame*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 2.5
Intelligence: 3.5
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Hand Seals: 3.5
Total: 34.5

Will post some more later.


----------



## GucciBandana (Aug 24, 2011)

why Nagato keep getting 5 for speed? did everyone read the new chapter? Kabuto stated Nagato's mobility is a concern.

when this Kages fight finish, I can do a more accurate rating for all 3 of the dead Kages thats still active, Raikage seems to be the weakest out of the 3, the other two are very similar, super hard to kill, confuse the sh*t out of people, with Muu being slightly stronger I guess, both of them might be as strong or even slightly stronger than Orochimaru Jiraiya and Minato


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## Missc (Aug 24, 2011)

*Naruto*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Hand Seals: 3
Total: 35

*Sasuke*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 4
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 4
Hand Seals: 4
Total: 35 

*Pain*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 5
Speed: 4
Stamina: 5
Hand Seals: 5
Total: 36.5

*Madara*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3
Speed: 5
Stamina: 4
Hand Seals: 5
Total: 36

*Raikage*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Hand Seals: 3
Total: 35

*Killer Bee*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 3
Strength: 4
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Hand Seals: 4.5
Total: 35.5

*Minato*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 4
Hand Seals: 5
Total: 36.5

*Kakashi*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 3
Hand Seals: 5
Total: 34.5

*Darui*
Ninjutsu: 4.5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 4
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 4
Hand Seals: 5
Total: 34.5

*Kinkaku/Ginkaku*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 3.5
Strength: 4
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 5
Hand Seals: 4
Total: 33

*Hanzo*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3.5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 4
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 4
Hand Seals: 4.5
Total: 35.5

*Muu*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 4
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 4.5
Hand Seals: 4.5
Total: 36

*Fourth Kazekage*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 4
Speed: 4
Stamina: 4
Hand Seals: 5
Total: 34.5

*Gaara*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 4
Speed: 4
Stamina: 5
Hand Seals: 5
Total: 35

*Itachi*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 3.5
Hand Seals: 5
Total: 36
(healthy)


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## GucciBandana (Aug 24, 2011)

*Mei*
nin 5
tai 4.5
gen 3.5
int 4.5
str 3
spe 4.5
sta 3.5
sea 4.5
*total 33*
great ninjutsu user, with 2 kekkei genkai, mixing 3 elements, definitely a 5. great taijutsu user, but not a specialist however, quck enough to kick black zetsu before he can react, but not strong, thats why need Chojuro's sword to aid her send Sasuke flying, 4.5 for tai and spe, 3 for str. non genjutsu shown, but above average is needed for a Kage that requires mainly skills over brute strength. very intelligent, as he figured out Ao's abnormal act right away. average Stamina, good sealing techiniques.


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## DoflaMihawk (Aug 24, 2011)

I shall do only one, since I am lazy: 

Pain: 5/5 for all stats except Taijutsu and Speed, which both get 3/5.

Making a score of *36/40*


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## GucciBandana (Aug 24, 2011)

Missc said:


> *Pain*
> Ninjutsu: 5
> Taijutsu: 5
> Genjutsu: 3
> ...



Killer Bee's strength isn't 5? da man knocked down Raikage.

if considering Kinkaku's transformation, his strength is 5+, if considering his banana fan, his seal would be 5 as well, cuz he doesn't need to make a seal to use an element jutsu.

Itachi's taijutsu was 4.5 in the databook, how did it drop?


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## Elite Uchiha (Aug 24, 2011)

Minato (tired from after hours in labor surpressing the Kyuubi)

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Hand Seals: 5
Total: 39


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## Empathy (Aug 24, 2011)

Minato should get a 41.


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## Whirlpool (Nov 13, 2011)

Naruto Uzumaki

*Ninjutsu:5
Taijutsu:5
Genjutsu:3
Intelligence:4
Strength:5
Speed:5
Stamina:5
Seals:3
Total:35

Sasuke Uchiha

Ninjutsu:5
Taijutsu:4
Genjutsu:5
Intelligence:4
Strength:3.5
Speed:5
Stamina:4
Seals:4.5
Total:35

Minato

Ninjutsu:5
Taijutsu:4.5
Genjutsu:3
Intellgience:5
Strength:4
Speed:5
Stamina:4.5
Seals:5
Total:36

Kushina

Ninjutsu:5
Taijutsu:taijutsu
Genjutsu:6
Intellgience:17
Strength:∞
Speed:5
Stamina:I Can only imagine 
Seals:47657384
Sexiness:∞x16
Total:*


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## Jizznificent (Nov 13, 2011)

the thread is back the underworld. ok then some new entries based on hype and feats:

*muu: *
nin= 5
tai= 4
gen= 3.5
int= 4.5
str= 3.5
spe= 4.5
sta= 4
seals= 4

*3rd raikage:*
nin= 5
tai= 4.5
gen= 3
int= 4
str= 5
spe= 5
sta= 5
seals= 2.5
*
2nd mizukage:*
nin= 5
tai= 3.5
gen= 5
int= 3.5
str= 3.5
spe= 4.5
sta= 3.5
seals= 5

*4th kazekage:*
nin= 5
tai= 2.5
gen= 3.5
int= 4
str= 3
spe= 5
sta= 4.5
seals= 4

*uchiha madara:*
nin= 5
tai= 4.5
gen= 5
int= 5
str= 3.5
spe= 5
sta= 5
seals= 5


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## JPongo (Nov 13, 2011)

Minato stats > ur fave character stats.

LOL.


----------



## Mider T (Nov 13, 2011)

When does the 4th Databook come out?


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## navy (Nov 13, 2011)

Mider T said:


> When does the 4th Databook come out?



Probably never.


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## jimbob631 (Nov 13, 2011)

Pain
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 5
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 5
Hand Seals: 5
Total: 38

Madara
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Hand Seals: 5
Total: 39.5

Raikage
Ninjutsu: 4
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3.5
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Hand Seals: 3
Total: 34

Killer Bee
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Hand Seals: 3
Total: 36

Minato
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 3.5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 4
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Hand Seals: 5
Total: 37

Darui
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 4
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 4
Hand Seals: 4
Total: 33

Hanzo
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 3.5
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 4
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 4
Hand Seals: 4
Total: 33.5

Muu
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 3.5
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 4.5
Hand Seals: 5
Total: 34.5

Fourth Kazekage
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3.5
Genjutsu: 3.5
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 4
Stamina: 5
Hand Seals: 4.5
Total: 33

Gaara
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3.5
Genjutsu: 3.5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 5
Hand Seals: 4
Total: 34


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## Whirlpool (Nov 13, 2011)

If Narutos stats arn't on par with kakashis or sannins i'm gonna be like


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## Rargon (Nov 13, 2011)

Alot of fuzz around Nagato, as someone said the 6PoP count, as an example:

Sasori has 4 in taijutsu but the only thing we saw him do BY HIMSELF (and this was when he changed his heart into another puppet) was stab sakura who took the hit like a boss. Obviously the 4 comes from feats such as controlling 100 puppets who all fight at the same time, obviously not very good fighters but just that he can make them all fight.

If you count in the Pains in Nagatos score it would turn into something like this:

Ninjutsu:5 - Who can argue here?
Taijutsu:5 - As someone stated he tanked SM hits with Deva.
Genjutsu:5 - Ying Yang mastery.
Intelligence:5 - Fight with Jiraiya, made him use all his techniques before bringing out all six. The invasion of Konoha, Shikamaru quote anyone?
Strength:4-5 - This is where it gets tricky, so I cannot say for sure.
Speed:5 - Can keep up with Kn6 and SM shinobi.
Stamina:5 - Invasion of Pain arc, end.
Seals:5 - He doesnt even need any seals from what it looks like (except summons, and about that you must have seen how fast Animal Path summoned that fat panda who blocked Jiraiyas fastest attack)
Total:39-40

Questions?


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## Epyon (Nov 14, 2011)

Naruto
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 2.5
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 4.5
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 2.5
Total: 32.5

Sasuke
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3.5
Genjutsu: 4.5
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 4
Seals: 4
Total: 33

Gaara
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 2.5
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 2.5
Speed: 4
Stamina: 5
Seals: 4.5
Total: 32

Nagato
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 4.5
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 0.5
Speed: 0.5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5
Total: 29.5

A
Ninjutsu: 4
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 4
Total: 35

Killerbee
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 3.5
Strength: 4.5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 3.5
Total: 34.5

Onoki
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 4.5
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 2.5
Speed: 4
Stamina: 4
Seals: 5
Total: 35

Mei
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3.5
Genjutsu: 3.5
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 3.5
Seals: 5
Total: 33

Danzo
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3
Speed: 4
Stamina: 3.5
Seals: 5
Total: 35

Third Raikage
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3.5
Intelligence: 3.5
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 3.5
Total: 35.5

Muu
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 4.5
Seals: 5
Total: 36

Second Mizukage
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 4
Stamina: 5
Seals: 4.5
Total: 35

Madara
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 4.5
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 4.5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5
Total: 38


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## Danzo123 (Nov 14, 2011)

Nagato has not shown any of the following feats:
-Speed
-Seals
-Intelligence
-Genjutsu

While most people ive seen gave him 4+ in these sections


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## navy (Nov 14, 2011)

Danzo123 said:


> Nagato has not shown any of the following feats:
> -Speed
> -Seals
> -Intelligence
> ...



Wasnt Nagato made before the last databook? Why would Kishi include him or Pain if he didnt last time?

And Nagato's speed is non-existant. .5 like Rock Lee's Ninjutsu stats


----------



## Wizard (Nov 14, 2011)

The uber hax shall we:

Minato:
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 5 (OVER 9000)
Strength: 4
Speed: 5 (OVER 9000)
Stamina: 4
Seals: 5
Total: 36.5

Nagato: Considering he has all the abilities of 6PathsOfPain

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 4.5
Speed: 3.5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5
Total: 37

Madara Uchiha:
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 3
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5
Total: 37.5



Danzo123 said:


> Nagato has not shown any of the following feats:
> -Speed
> -Seals
> -Intelligence
> ...



 theres a reason this is called a prediction thread


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## Jizznificent (Nov 14, 2011)

*nagato (skinny)*
nin: 5
tai: 4
gen: 5
int: 5
str: 0.5
spe: 0.5
sta: 5
seals: 5

based on hype, feats and intuition.


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## OneHitKill (Nov 14, 2011)

N.Mizukage

5 in everything :sanji


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## Butterfly (Nov 14, 2011)

You misadded Sakura's total. It should be 31.5, actually, op.


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## Jaybro (Nov 14, 2011)

Databook 4? I thought there were already like 5-6 of them. I have two of them here, but I have no idea what the numberings are.


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## Hasan (Nov 15, 2011)

_Hatake Kakashi_

*Ninjutsu* - 5
*Taijutsu* - 5 (+0.5)
*Genjutsu* - 4.5 (+0.5)
*Intelligence* - 5
*Strength* - 3.5
*Speed* - 5 ( +0.5)
*Stamina* - 3.5 (+0.5)
*Handseals* - 5

*Total:* _36.5_


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## Superstars (Nov 15, 2011)

This thread must mean that databook 4 release is near?


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## Kuromaku (Nov 15, 2011)

I don't mean to put a damper on everyone's predictions, but judging from past databooks, shouldn't stat totals be less than 35 unless the characters whose stats are being predicted are the elite of the elite?


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## cieloazul (Nov 15, 2011)

Naruto (base)= 31.5 (+5.5)

Ninjutsu - 5 (+1)
Taijutsu - 4.5 (+1)
Genjutsu - 2.5 (+.5)
Intelligence - 3.5 (+.5)
Strength - 4 (+.5)
Speed - 4.5 (+1)
Stamina - 5
Handseals - 2.5 (+1)

Sasuke= 34 (+3.5)

Ninjutsu - 5 
Taijutsu - 4 (+.5)
Genjutsu - 4.5 (+.5)
Intelligence - 4 (+.5)
Strength - 4 (+.5)
Speed - 4.5 
Stamina - 4 (+.5)
Handseals - 4

Kakashi= 35

Stamina - 3.5 (+.5)

A= 35.5

Ninjutsu - 5 
Taijutsu - 5
Genjutsu - 3.5 (if Gai is a 3 then A should at least be around that level)
Intelligence - 3.5
Strength - 5
Speed - 5
Stamina - 5
Handseals - 3.5

Onoki= 33.5

Ninjutsu - 5 
Taijutsu - 4
Genjutsu - 4
Intelligence - 4
Strength - 3.5 (he lightens the weight of objects not purely lifting)
Speed - 4.5 
Stamina - 3.5
Handseals - 5

Mei= 33.5

Ninjutsu - 5 
Taijutsu - 4 
Genjutsu - 4
Intelligence - 4
Strength - 3.5
Speed - 4.5 
Stamina - 4
Handseals - 4.5

Gaara= 32 (+3)

Ninjutsu - 5 
Taijutsu - 2.5 (+.5)
Genjutsu - 4 (+.5)
Intelligence - 4.5 (+.5)
Strength - 2.5
Speed - 4 (+1)
Stamina - 5
Handseals - 4.5 (+.5)

Darui=32.5

Ninjutsu - 5 
Taijutsu - 4
Genjutsu - 5
Intelligence - 4
Strength - 3.5
Speed - 4
Stamina - 4
Handseals - 4

Danzo=32.5

Ninjutsu - 5 
Taijutsu - 3.5
Genjutsu - 4.5
Intelligence - 5
Strength - 2.5
Speed - 4
Stamina - 3.5
Handseals - 4.5

Madara= 37

Ninjutsu - 5 
Taijutsu - 4.5
Genjutsu - 5
Intelligence - 4.5
Strength - 3.5
Speed - 5
Stamina - 4.5
Handseals - 5

Nagato (healthy)= 36

Ninjutsu - 5 
Taijutsu - 4.5
Genjutsu - 4.5
Intelligence - 4.5
Strength - 4
Speed - 4.5
Stamina - 5
Handseals - 4.5

Konan= 31

Ninjutsu - 5 
Taijutsu - 3.5
Genjutsu - 4
Intelligence - 4
Strength - 2.5
Speed - 4.5
Stamina - 4
Handseals - 4.5


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 15, 2011)

Itachi 

Nin : 5
tai : 5
gen : 5
int: 5
str : 3.5
speed : 5
sta: 5 
seal : 5


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## Jad (Nov 15, 2011)

*Rock Lee*

*Nin *: 0: _Ninjutsu is for wimps and sissies_

*tai *: 5: _You know it_

*gen *: 5: _Even though he can't do it, because its for pussies and wimps. He gets a 5/5 for Genjutsu because no illusion can break or trick this Kung Fu experts iron buddha mind._

*int*: 5: _Education is important bitch! Rock Lee holds a PHD in Computer Science. Best mother f'ing degree!_

*str *: 5: _All Rock Lee has to do is look at you and you'll be punching yourself in the face. That and he can kick your head off into space! You know, where the stars are....yeah you better believe that_

*speed *: 5: _Speed ? Speed......HE IS SPEED. His the very personification of speed. He is the Lighting!_

*sta*: 5: _On a serious note, he jogs around the planet 5 times in the morning for practice._

*seal *: 0: _Rock Lee doesn't need to learn hand seals, nor does he need to know what his opponent is doing with their hands. By the time they starting clapping them, Rock Lee already has them in a 9000+ combo! 

Believe that!!! You damn turkey...._ Now watch Rock Lee break it down, otherwise he'll break it in your face!	 ............. matter of fact, here is two more 	   Look at that man go.. Dayum you wish you could move like this kid


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## Synn (Nov 15, 2011)

_*Terumi Mei*_

Ninjutsu - 5
Taijutsu - 4
Genjutsu - 4
Intelligence - 5
Strength - 2.5
Speed - 4
Stamina - 4.5
Handseals - 5

Total: 34



_*Uzumaki/Senju Tsunade*_

Ninjutsu - 5
Taijutsu - 5
Genjutsu - 4 (+0.5)
Intelligence - 5
Strength - 5
Speed - 4 (+0.5)
Stamina - 4.5 (+0.5)
Handseals - 5 (+1)

Total: 37.5 (+2.5)



_*Yamanaka Ino*_

Ninjutsu - 4 (+0.5)
Taijutsu - 2.5 (+1)
Genjutsu - 3.5 (+0.5)
Intelligence - 3.5 (+0.5)
Strength - 3 (+0.5)
Speed - 3.5 (+1)
Stamina - 3 (+0.5)
Handseals - 3 (+0.5)

Total: 26 (+5)


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## CA182 (Nov 15, 2011)

Jad said:


> *Look at that man go.. Dayum you wish you could move like this kid*



For some reason those words remind me of this...

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y45xj38z4pI[/YOUTUBE]


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## Seon (Nov 15, 2011)

You didn't seriously give Tsunade a 37.5....

I think the only person who we have seen that increased would be Itachi because I don't think it took his Susanoo into account by the time it came out.

Also, people stop putting Nagato at a perfect 40. Stop.


----------



## Synn (Nov 15, 2011)

Seon said:


> You didn't seriously give Tsunade a 37.5....
> 
> I think the only person who we have seen that increased would be Itachi because I don't think it took his Susanoo into account by the time it came out.



Sorry to break it down to you, but not everyone's gonna agree with you.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 15, 2011)

I heard the next databook will include the 'mobility' stat


----------



## Star★Platinum (Nov 15, 2011)

Synn said:


> _*Uzumaki/Senju Tsunade*_
> 
> Ninjutsu - 5
> Taijutsu - 5
> ...



Lolwhat...
she'll boost up by 1, maybe 1.5 i'd say.
No way does she deserve to be that high with so little shown.


----------



## Jad (Nov 15, 2011)

You will 100% not see a jump in Itachi's stats. He died as he was, and he took his Part 3 stats with him. But you can dream 

Kakashi will get a jump in stats.
Gai will remain the same.
Naruto's stats just shoot, same with Sasukes.
Tsunade hasn't shown any development to give her a jump in stats with a possible release of Databook 4.

A lot of the people will have the same stats, because this whole manga so far has focused on Naruto and no one else~ Even off panel, there was no possibility of anyones' stats going up from the release of Data book 3 until now.

Choji's stats though, they shoot.


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## Synn (Nov 15, 2011)

X Itachi X said:


> Lolwhat...
> she'll boost up by 1, maybe 1.5 i'd say.
> No way does she deserve to be that high with so little shown.



It's not like the upcoming Databook is gonna be released tomorrow, which leaves her plenty of time to show something more... >.>


----------



## Icegaze (Nov 15, 2011)

I see a lot of people are giving Konoha 11 +4 or +5 in stats compared to their previous DB totals. You do realize that between the beginning of part 2 and currently it has been slightly less than a year (between 6 and 10 months). I doubt their progress would be that drastic (bar Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura maybe).

I'll just do my predictions of their totals:

Naruto: 32 (I'm not sure Kishi counts Kyubi Chakra mode or any "mode" for that matter)
Sasuke: 34
Sakura: 28
Sai: 29.5

Neji: 28.5
Tenten: 22.5
Lee: 25

Choji: 26.5
Shikamaru: 27
Ino: 24

Shino: 24
Hinata: 23.5
Kiba: 23

Gaara: 31.5
Temari: 27
Kankuro: 28


----------



## Eliyua23 (Oct 26, 2013)

4th Raikage

Nin: 4
Tai: 5
Gen: 3.5
Int: 4.5
Str: 5
Spe: 5
Sta: 5
Sea: 2.5

Overall: 34.5





Onoki 

Nin: 5
Tai: 3
Gen: 3.5
Int: 4.5
Str: 4
Spe: 4.5
Sta: 4.5
Sea: 5 

overall: 34








Sasuke(Kage Arc)

Nin: 5 
Tai: 4
Gen: 5
Int: 4
Str: 3.5
Spe: 4.5
Sta: 4
Sea: 5

Overall: 34








Naruto(Kage Arc)

Nin: 5 
Tai: 5
Gen: 3.5
Int: 4
Str: 5
Spe: 4
Sta: 5
Sea: 2.5

Overall: 34







Naruto(War Arc)

Nin: 5
Tai: 5
Gen: 3.5
Int: 4.5
Str: 5
Spe: 5
Sta: 5
Sea: 3

Overall: 36








Minato(Kage Arc)

Nin: 5
Tai: 4.5
Gen: 4
Int: 5 
Str: 3.5
Spe: 5
Sta: 4.5
Sea: 5

Overall: 36.5








Minato(War Arc)

Nin: 5
Tai: 4.5
Gen:4
Int: 5
Str: 4
Spe:5
Sta: 5
Sea: 5

Overall: 37.5



Kakashi(Kage Arc)=same as Databook 3 







Kakashi(War Arc)

Nin: 5
Tai: 4.5
Gen: 4.5
Int: 5
Str: 3.5
Spe: 5
Sta: 3.5
Sea: 5

Overall: 35.5








Kabuto

Nin: 5
Tai: 4 
Gen: 5
Int: 5
Str: 4.5
Spe: 4
Sta: 5
Sea: 5


Overall: 37.5








Tobirama

Nin: 5
Tai: 5
Gen: 3.5
Int: 5
Str: 4
Spe: 5
Sta: 5
Sea: 5


Overall: 37.5









Madara(VOTE)

Nin: 5
Tai: 5 
Gen: 5
Int: 5
Str: 4
Spe: 5
Sta: 5 
Sea: 5 

Overall: 39









Hashirama

Nin: 5
Tai: 5
Gen: 5
Int: 5
Str: 4.5
Spe: 4.5
Sta: 5
Sea: 5

Overall: 39










Obito (Kage Arc)

Nin: 4.5
Tai: 4.5
Gen 5
Int: 5 
Str: 4
Spe: 5
Sta: 4.5
Sea: 5

Overall: 37.5






Obito(War Arc)

Nin: 5
Tai: 5
Gen: 5
Int: 5
Str: 5
Spe: 5 
Sta: 5
Sea: 5

overall: 40



Mei

Nin: 5
Tai: 4
Gen: 4.5
Int: 5
Spe: 4
Str: 3.5
Sta: 4
Sea: 5

overall: 35



Gaara

Nin: 5
Tai: 3
Gen: 4.5
Int: 5 
Str: 3
Spe: 4
Sta: 5
Sea: 5

overall: 34



Nagato(Pain)

Nin: 5
Tai: 4
Gen: 5
Int: 5
Str: 4.5
Spe: 4
Sta: 5
Sea: 5

Overall: 37.5





Itachi(war)

Nin: 5
Tai: 4.5
Gen: 5
Int: 5
Str: 3.5
Spe: 5
Sta: 3.5
Sea: 5


Overall: 36.5










Killer Bee(War)


Nin: 5
Tai: 5
Int: 4.5
Gen: 3.5
Str: 4.5
Spe: 5
Sta: 5
Sea: 5 

Overall: 36.5








Sandaime Raikage

Nin: 5
Tai: 5
Int: 4.5
Gen: 3
Str: 5
Spe: 5
Sta: 5
Sea: 2

Overall: 34.5










Mu

Nin: 5
Tai: 3.5
Int: 4.5
Gen: 3.5
Str: 4
Spe: 4.5
Sta: 4.5
Sea: 5

overall : 35.5










TrollKage

Nin: 5
Tai: 4.5
Int: 5
Gen: 5
Str: 3.5
Spe: 4
Sta: 3.5
Sea: 5

Overall: 35.5









Hanzo(War)

Nin: 4.5
Tai: 5 
Int: 5
Gen: 3
Str: 4.5
Spe: 5
Sta: 4.5
Sea: 3

Overall: 34.5







Mifune: 

Nin: 2.5
Tai: 5
Int: 5
Gen: 3.5
Str: 4.5
Spe: 5
Sta: 4.5
Sea: 2.5

Overall: 32.5







Konan

Nin: 5
Tai: 3
Int: 5
Gen: 5
Str: 3
Spe: 4.5
Sta: 5
Sea: 5

Overall: 35.5





Danzo

Nin: 5
Tai: 4
Int: 5
Gen: 5
Str: 3.5
Spe: 4
Sta: 5
Sea: 5


Overall: 36.5


----------



## valicio (Oct 26, 2013)

naruto:
ninjutsu 5 ( 4)
taijutsu 4.5 (3.5)
speed 5 (3.5)
genjutsu 4.0 (2)
stamina 5 (5)
strenght 4.5 (3)
 total intelligence  4 without kurama and over 9000 with kurama (3)
hand seals 3(1.5)
 total 35 from 26
   sasuke: 
ninjutsu 5 (5)
taijutsu 4  (3.5)
genjutsu 4.5 (4)
speed 5 (5)
stamina 4,5 (3.5)
intelligence 4,5 (3.5)
handseals 4,5 ( 4)
strenght  4,5 (3.5)
 total 36,5 from 31.5
 P.S im amused that peoples give naruto only +0.5 point in intelligence.


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## 8 (Oct 26, 2013)

obito uchiha:
1. intelligence 1 (1)


----------



## Rosi (Oct 26, 2013)

Kakashi (War Arc)
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 4.5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 4.5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 4
Handseals: 5
Overall: 37.5

Obito (War Arc)
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Handseals: 5
overall: 40


----------



## Eliyua23 (Oct 26, 2013)

Rosi said:


> Kakashi (War Arc)
> Ninjutsu: 5
> Taijutsu: 4.5
> Genjutsu: 4.5
> ...



where did Kakashi shows he has a 4.5 in strength I doubt it would be that high, Stamina 4 is kind of a high increase he did improve but not by that much.


----------



## Csdabest (Oct 26, 2013)

I dont get why people have Naruto BASE STATS SOOO HIGH. he has stat boosters. If you giving naruto these high stats for this then you need boost everyone elses stats with their stat boosters aswell


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## αce (Oct 26, 2013)

Only perfect scores are going to be Hashirama, Madara and Obito. Naruto might get one but I don't see how he'd get a 5 in genjutsu. Although Kishi might have to introduce a rating going up to 10 since there's a big disparity between some individuals who have 5's and others who also have 5's.

E.g. - Orochimaru has a 5 in genjutsu. Does this mean he's on the same level as Itachi, Madara, Obito?

No.


----------



## Rindaman (Oct 26, 2013)

Csdabest said:


> I dont get why people have Naruto BASE STATS SOOO HIGH. he has stat boosters. If you giving naruto these high stats for this then you need boost everyone elses stats with their stat boosters aswell



LOL and Sasuke's aren't?

I see people up his stats for Sharingan related feats constantly. 


But I guess lvl 1 Sharingan is considered base to some.


----------



## Eliyua23 (Oct 26, 2013)

Csdabest said:


> I dont get why people have Naruto BASE STATS SOOO HIGH. he has stat boosters. If you giving naruto these high stats for this then you need boost everyone elses stats with their stat boosters aswell



his ninjutsu was a 4 in the 3rd databook before FRS, his Tai was 3.5 before SM and Senjutsu improved his Taijutsu dramatically as seen vs Deva Path, and Omio , I assumed Gen, Int improved over time with gaining more experience and knowledge , he has Kyuubi giving him his full chakra now so his speed, strength should see dramatic improvements , seals should improve some with experience 

Naruto had a 26 before Immortals Arc you know how much time has passed eve without his powerups he should be well into the 30s.



αce said:


> Only perfect scores are going to be Hashirama, Madara and Obito. Naruto might get one but I don't see how he'd get a 5 in genjutsu. Although Kishi might have to introduce a rating going up to 10 since there's a big disparity between some individuals who have 5's and others who also have 5's.
> 
> E.g. - Orochimaru has a 5 in genjutsu. Does this mean he's on the same level as Itachi, Madara, Obito?
> 
> No.



I think only Juubito, Rikudo, and end game Naruto will have 5, Hashirama doesn't have the speed feats to make him a 5 nor Madara the strength feats I think they will be close but no cigar


----------



## Csdabest (Oct 26, 2013)

Naruto
Ninjutsu: 5

Reasoning: His advancements with Rasengan, mini rasens, and bijuu dama rasengan gets him this.

Taijutsu: 4

Reasoning: Outside of his brief Taijutsu training with the Toads for Frog fu. he hasnt really shown any real impressive taijutsu feats so i doubt a huge boost is necessary. 

Genjutsu: 3.5

Reasoning: Genjutsu has alot to do with chakra conrol. And Naruto has made leaps and bounds with chakra control. How much of a boost in genjutsu is still unknown but i think the increase in this category is needed.

Intelligence: 4

Reasoning: Itachi taught him how to better evaluate the situation. 

Strength: 4.5

Reasonng: Naruto has always had impressive strength.


Speed: 4

Reasoning: Havent seen much of an increase with his base. I dont count stat boosters
Stamina: 5
Reasoning: none needed

Seals: 3.5
Reasoning: Chakra control and chakra syncing along with his kyuubi seal.

Total: 33.5

Sasuke
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5(Held his own against Bee barrage, Mifune Samurai corp and went hand to hand supposedly with Danzo to fluff out time)
Genjutsu: 5(Whored Shii who is a sensor and genjutsu specialist and caught danzo)
Intelligence: 4.5(Got a lesson from Itachi and learned alot about the shinobi world from the kages and scroll.)
Strength: 4(slight increase is probably do)
Speed: 5(Been Keeping up with KCM Naruto who has Minato god tier speed)
Stamina: 4.5( been spamming Huge summons, Susano-o ms techniques and hasnt even broke a sweat yet)
Seals: 5(brought Orochmaru back to life from watching Kakashi sealing his curse mark and abit of flesh and reverse engineered that shit to create life and has special seals to open up the uchiha shrine.
Total: 37.5



Eliyua23 said:


> his ninjutsu was a 4 in the 3rd databook before FRS, his Tai was 3.5 before SM and Senjutsu improved his Taijutsu dramatically as seen vs Deva Path, and Omio , I assumed Gen, Int improved over time with gaining more experience and knowledge , he has Kyuubi giving him his full chakra now so his speed, strength should see dramatic improvements , seals should improve some with experience
> 
> Naruto had a 26 before Immortals Arc you know how much time has passed eve without his powerups he should be well into the 30s.



The databook doesnt include Stat boosters. Naruto was faster than Sasuke with KN0 when Sasuke learned Lee Strong Fist style taijutsu his speed matched Lees. Which was faster than naruto base. and the databook at that time cast Sasuke speed as being superior than Naruto. Despite Sasuke getting blitzed by KN0 speed.

Thats why i dont get why people are matching naruto's (PHYSICAL)stats with his stat boosters such as Kyuubi Chakra and Sage Mode.

Genjutsu, seals, and taijutsu should be Naruto main stats that are boosted heavily. Im not sure why people are giving Naruto 1.5 stat boost in speed and giving him a 5 in strength because of his kyuubi chakra and sage mode when start boosters are not included in Databook stats.=-


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## Harbour (Oct 26, 2013)

I think, now databook 4 isnt necessary. 
Everyone get all 5!


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## Csdabest (Oct 26, 2013)

Harbour said:


> I think, now databook 4 isnt necessary.
> Everyone get all 5!





Rindaman said:


> LOL and Sasuke's aren't?
> 
> I see people up his stats for Sharingan related feats constantly.
> 
> ...



How. Sasuke whored Shii with genjutsu w/ eye contact from his sharingan. And Shii is a sensor genjutsu specialist.

Sharingans helps with perception not his speed. And side by side Sasuke has kept up with KCM Naruto who is stated to be at Minato speed levels in that form. and Sasuke has no physical stat boosters. Hence his speed feats would be contributed to his base stats not his sharingan. Especially when comparing characters side by side and not going against eachother.


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## αce (Oct 26, 2013)

> I think only Juubito, Rikudo, and end game Naruto will have 5, Hashirama  doesn't have the speed feats to make him a 5 nor Madara the strength  feats I think they will be close but no cigar



Does the databook include power ups? I'm pretty sure it does and if that's the case, sage mode should make his speed a 5. Although I think in base he's a pure 40 as well so we'll see.


----------



## Trojan (Oct 26, 2013)

αce said:


> Only perfect scores are going to be Hashirama, Madara and Obito. Naruto might get one but I don't see how he'd get a 5 in genjutsu. Although Kishi might have to introduce a rating going up to 10 since there's a big disparity between some individuals who have 5's and others who also have 5's.
> 
> E.g. - Orochimaru has a 5 in genjutsu. Does this mean he's on the same level as Itachi, Madara, Obito?
> 
> No.



I don't see how Hashi will have a 5 in intelligence when he was highlighted to be stupid in
a lot of times. (=


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## Eliyua23 (Oct 26, 2013)

can we please move away from Naruto vs Sasuke it's gonna lead to flaming and trolling and get the thread locked


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Oct 26, 2013)

I know this shit is years old. But...



> Nagato:
> Ninjutsu: 5
> Taijutsu: *5*
> Genjutsu: 5
> ...



Really? 

A guy in a pretty much wheel chair state gets top notch physical attributes?


----------



## Gunners (Oct 26, 2013)

Khris said:


> I know this shit is years old. But...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It is funny that stat wise he would be the reverse Rock Lee.


----------



## Csdabest (Oct 27, 2013)

Khris said:


> I know this shit is years old. But...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Exactly. It just goes to show how most of the forum doesnt seem to know how databook stats work or even operates.


----------



## Vice (Oct 27, 2013)

There's absolutely nothing wrong with setting Nagato's taijutsu rating at 5. He effortlessly schooled Naruto and Killer Bee with it.


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## Jad (Oct 27, 2013)

Jad said:


> *Rock Lee*
> 
> *Nin *: 0: _Ninjutsu is for wimps and sissies_
> 
> ...



I wander what I was doing that day to type that...


----------



## ShinobisWill (Oct 27, 2013)

Not much changed with Sasuke so far outside of eye techs.

Kakashi should get a 5 in speed and a 3.5-4 in stamina. His war arc feats provided a nice boost. 

Sakura should get a boost in maybe stamina and speed as well with her seal released.

Chouji might rise.

Ino might rise.

Maybe..Hinata.

I kinda doubt Obito has a 5 in intelligence, but he is smarter than people give him credit for. I still don't see him with a 5.


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Oct 27, 2013)

Jad said:


> I wander what I was doing that day to type that...



I feel ya. It was when everyone thought Rock Lee or anyone not named Uchiha/Naruto would not amount to shit.


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## Legendary Itachi (Oct 27, 2013)

Kishi no longer keep consistency in War arc that I doubt he can give a stats accurately now. What did Kakashi do to improve stamina drastically and spam Kamui + Clones + Raikiri everywhere without rest?

I can only foresee Hashi gets a perfect 40 while Madara gets 39 or 39.5 as the 2 Shinobi Legend......

I just want to see the data of Edo Kages, they should have been treated better.


----------



## Csdabest (Oct 27, 2013)

Legendary Itachi said:


> Kishi no longer keep consistency in War arc that I doubt he can give a stats accurately now. What did Kakashi do to improve stamina drastically and spam Kamui + Clones + Raikiri everywhere without rest?
> 
> I can only foresee Hashi gets a perfect 40 while Madara gets 39 or 39.5 as the 2 Shinobi Legend......
> 
> I just want to see the data of Edo Kages, they should have been treated better.



SOLDIER PILLS 

The best way is just go by feats or how a shinobi stands toe to toe with other Shinobi. Like when Sasuke had a 4 or 4.5 in genjutsu on databook 3. Then after sasuke been using mind control, fucking up a sensor/genjutsu specialist in shii and catching Danzo twice in genjutsu a kage level shinobi who competed with the OG God Of Shinobi Hiruzen and was armed with Sharingan and supposedly knows how to guard against it. 

You gotta give solid increases for stuff like that. Or when Someone is keeping up with another person pretty easy in the basic movement department even showing they are up on a set when that person speed was compared to another animal.Then they should get a boost as well.

Just gotta judge the feat progression and how characters cimpared to one another in a category


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## Wendson (Oct 28, 2013)

Nagato:40 

Ninjutsu:5
Taijutsu:5
Genjutsu:5
Stamina:5
Speed:5
Strength:5
Seals:5
Intelligence:5


----------



## Nikushimi (Oct 28, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Onoki:
> Ninjutsu: 5
> Taijutsu: 1.5
> Genjutsu: 5
> ...



How the fuck is Oonoki supposed to have a 5 in Strength?

The old geezer could barely lift his camping gear without throwing his back out.

He's obviously somewhere in the .5-1 range, even weaker than Haku.

Giving him a 5 in Genjutsu doesn't make any sense, either; I'm sure he has some basic skill in that area, being a Kage and all, but 5 is the absolute highest score available and Oonoki has not demonstrated ANY proficiency in that area.

Here are my guesses:


*Naruto*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 2.5
Intelligence: 3.5
Power: 3.5
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 3.5

*Sasuke*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 4.5
Intelligence: 4
Power: 3.5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 3.5
Seals: 4.5

*A*

Ninjutsu: 4.5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 2.5
Intelligence: 3.5
Power: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 3.5

*Oonoki*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3
Genjutsu: 2.5
Intelligence: 4.5
Power: 1
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 3
Seals: 5

*Tsunade*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3.5
Intelligence: 5
Power: 5
Speed: 4
Stamina: 4
Seals: 4.5

*Gaara*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 2.5
Genjutsu: 3.5
Intelligence: 4.5
Power: 2.5
Speed: 3.5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 4.5

*Mei*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 4
Power: 3
Speed: 3.5
Stamina: 3.5
Seals: 5

*Nagato*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Power: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5

*Madara*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Power: 4
Speed: 5
Stamina: 4 (living), 5 (Hashirama's DNA)
Seals: 5

*Itachi (Healthy)*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Power: 4
Speed: 5
Stamina: 3.5
Seals: 5

*Kabuto*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3.5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Power: 3.5
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5

*Konan*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3
Genjutsu: 3.5
Intelligence: 5
Power: 3
Speed: 3.5
Stamina: 3.5
Seals: 4.5

*Obito*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 4.5
Intelligence: 4
Power: 4
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5

*Hanzou*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3.5
Intelligence: 4.5
Power: 4
Speed: 5
Stamina: 3.5
Seals: 5

*3rd Raikage*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 2.5
Intelligence: 3.5
Power: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 3.5

*Muu*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3
Genjutsu: 3.5
Intelligence: 4.5
Power: 3.5
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 3.5
Seals: 5

*2nd Mizukage*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 2.5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 3.5
Power: 3
Speed: 4
Stamina: 3.5
Seals: 5

*4th Kazekage*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 2.5
Genjutsu: 3.5
Intelligence: 4.5
Power: 3
Speed: 3.5
Stamina: 4.5
Seals: 5

*Kinkaku/Ginkaku*

Ninjutsu: 3.5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 2.5
Intelligence: 3.5
Power: 3.5
Speed: 3.5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 2.5


----------



## αce (Oct 28, 2013)

@ Niku - 

Just wondering.

Sasuke should have a 5 in intelligence
and Madara only a 4 in stamina?

IDK those stuck out to me the most


----------



## Nikushimi (Oct 28, 2013)

αce said:


> @ Niku -
> 
> Just wondering.
> 
> ...



I don't see any reason to bump Sasuke's intelligence up a full tier and a half, based on what he's displayed. 4 seems appropriate (.5 increase over a period of like a few months).

As for Madara, I'd give the original version a 4 in stamina; with modifications, definitely a 5 (Hashirama's DNA, and all). I'll edit my previous post to reflect this.


----------



## Dominus (Oct 29, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> As for Madara, I'd give the original version a 4 in stamina; with modifications, definitely a 5 (Hashirama's DNA, and all). I'll edit my previous post to reflect this.



Madara fought Hashirama and most likely the other members of the Senju clan for 24 hours, I'm pretty sure that's enough for a 5 in stamina.


----------



## Nikushimi (Oct 29, 2013)

Dark Prince of Awesome said:


> Madara fought Hashirama and most likely the other members of the Senju clan for 24 hours, I'm pretty sure that's enough for a 5 in stamina.



Do we have a concrete time frame for that fight? I don't remember seeing one.

In any case, shinobi with average stamina can fight that long (just look at this latest war arc); it just depends how much they exert themselves.

Naruto has a 5 in stamina and has exhausted himself much quicker simply by going all-out; the duration of a battle is not an indicator of a shinobi's stamina so much as it is an indicator of how effectively they paced themselves. Even shinobi with relatively-poor stamina are still superhuman by our standards.

The reason I give living Madara a 4 is because it's well above average without crossing over into Uzumaki/Senju territory (ridiculous top tier stamina). You have to remember, though, that I'm simply offering my best guess, and there is always going to be a liberal margin for error.


----------



## Bansai (Oct 29, 2013)

I'm more interested in Taka's stats, which will hopefully be added. We have seen almost nothing from them. Especially Karin has shown almost absolutely nothing. She defeated one person in the whole Manga during a "fight" which we didn't even see. 

For the missing Kage, I'd say: 

*A*

Ninjutsu: 4.5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 2
Intelligence: 2.5
Power: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 4

*Onoki* (current Onoki, not prime Onoki!)

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 2.5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 4.5
Power: 2
Speed: 3.5 (without his Ninjutsu)
Stamina: 4
Seals: 5

*Mei Terumi*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3.5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 4
Power: 3
Speed: 3
Stamina: 2
Seals: 5


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## Lace (Oct 29, 2013)

Rookie 9:

Naruto:

Ninjutsu-5
Taijutsu-4.5
Genjutsu-3.5
Intelligence-3.5
Strength-4.5
Speed-5
Stamina-5
Hand seals-2.5

Sasuke:

Ninjutsu-5
Taijutsu-4
Genjutsu-4.5
Intelligence-4.5
Strength-4
Speed-4.5
Stamina-4
Hand seals-4.5

Sakura:
Ninjutsu-4
Taijutsu-3.5
Genjutsu-4
Intelligence-4.5
Strength-3.5
Speed-3.5
Stamina-3
Hand seals-4

Ino:

Ninjutsu-4.5
Taijutsu-2
Genjutsu-3.5 
Intelligence-3.5
Strength-3
Speed-3.5
Stamina-3
Hand seals-3

Shikamaru:

Ninjutsu-4
Taijutsu-2.5
Genjutsu-3.5
Intelligence-5 
Strength-2.5
Speed-3.5
Stamina-3.5
Hand seals-4

Chouji:

Ninjutsu-4
Taijutsu-3.5
Genjutsu-1
Intelligence-3 
Strength-5
Speed-2.5
Stamina-4
Hand seals-2

Kiba:

Ninjutsu-3.5
Taijutsu-3.5
Genjutsu-2
Intelligence-3.5 
Strength-3.5
Speed-5
Stamina-3
Hand seals-1.5

Hinata:

Ninjutsu-3.5
Taijutsu-4
Genjutsu-3 
Intelligence-3.5 
Strength-2
Speed-3
Stamina-3
Hand seals-3

Shino:

Ninjutsu-4.5
Taijutsu-2
Genjutsu-2 
Intelligence-4 
Strength-2
Speed-3.5
Stamina-3.5
Hand seals-2


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 29, 2013)

*Itachi (Edo)*

Nin : 5
Tai : 4.5
Gen : 5
Int : 5
Str : 4
Spe : 5
Sta : 5
Seal : 5

*Naruto : *

Nin : 5
Tai : 4
Gen : 3
Int : 4
Str : 4
Spe : 4
Sta : 5
Seal : 3.5


*Sasuke : *

Nin : 5
Tai : 4
Gen : 4.5
Int : 4
Str : 3.5
Spe : 4.5
Sta : 4
Seal : 4.5

*Raikage : 
*
Nin : 4.5
Tai : 5
Gen : 3.5
Int  : 4
Str :  5
Spe : 5
Sta : 5
Seal : 3.5

*Bee : *

Nin : 4
Tai : 5
Gen : 3
Int : 4.5
Str : 5
Spe :4.5
Sta : 5
Seal : 3.5

*Nagato : *

Nin : 5
Tai : 4
Gen : 4
Int : 4.5
Str : 4
Spe : 4.5
Sta : 5
Seal : 5

*Minato : *

Nin : 5
Tai : 4.5
Gen : 3.5
Int : 4.5
Str : 4.5
Spe : 5
Sta : 4.5
Seal : 5

*Onoki : *

Nin : 5
Tai : 4
Gen : 4.5
Int : 4.5
Str : 3
Spe : 4
Sta : 4.5
Seal : 5

*Gaara : *

Nin : 5
Tai : 3.5
Gen : 3.5
Int : 4.5
Str : 2.5
Spe : 3.5
Sta : 5
Seal : 5

*2nd Mizukage : 
*
Nin : 5
Tai : 3.5
Gen : 5
Int : 4.5
Str : 3.5
Spe : 4
Sta : 3.5
Seal : 5

*Kabuto : *

Nin : 5
Tai : 3.5
Gen : 4.5
Int : 5
Str : 3.5
Spe : 4
Sta : 3.5
Seal : 5

*Maddy : *

Nin : 5
Tai : 5
Gen : 5
Int : 4.5
Str : 4.5
Spe : 5
Sta : 5
Seal : 5

*Hashz : *

Nin : 5
Tai : 5
Gen : 5
Int : 4.5
Str : 5
Spe : 4.5
Sta : 5
Seal : 5

*Tobirama : 
*
Nin : 5
Tai : 4.5
Gen : 4
Int : 5
Str : 4.5
Spe : 4.5
Sta : 4.5
Seal : 5

*Obito : 
*
Nin : 5
Tai : 4
Gen : 4.5
Int : 4.5
Str : 4.5
Spe : 5
Sta : 5
Seal : 5

*Kakashi :*

Nin : 5 
Tai : 4.5
Gen : 4.5
Int : 5
Str : 3.5
Spe : 4.5
Sta : 4.5
Seal : 5


----------



## Eliyua23 (Oct 29, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> [sp]How the fuck is Oonoki supposed to have a 5 in Strength?
> 
> The old geezer could barely lift his camping gear without throwing his back out.
> 
> ...




Itachi stronger than Naruto


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 29, 2013)

Eliyua23 said:


> Itachi stronger than Naruto



Stats don't exactly tell who is stronger than who.

Especially when the people in question are power up users.


----------



## Dominus (Oct 29, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> Do we have a concrete time frame for that fight? I don't remember seeing one.
> 
> In any case, shinobi with average stamina can fight that long (just look at this latest war arc); it just depends how much they exert themselves.
> 
> ...



He was fighting his rival, Hashirama, his brother got killed, he was angry at Hashirama/Tobirama and he was using Susanoo which uses up a lot of chakra, so why would you think he didn't go all out?
Hashirama said that they fought for 24 hours without stopping.


----------



## principito (Oct 29, 2013)

I think those stats were meant for ninjas...

we have a pokemon/dragonball/powerranger manga kind of deal now... making stats for it would be complicated and honestly ridiculous


----------



## Nikushimi (Oct 29, 2013)

Eliyua23 said:


> Itachi stronger than Naruto



I don't see how you got that from just looking at the stats or if you're saying that's how it should be, but I can tell you that I definitely don't agree with it.



Dark Prince of Awesome said:


> He was fighting his rival, Hashirama, his brother got killed, he was angry at Hashirama/Tobirama and he was using Susanoo which uses up a lot of chakra, so why would you think he didn't go all out?
> Hashirama said that they fought for 24 hours without stopping.



Fair enough; I missed the 24 hours part.

I'd still give him a 4 in stamina; if I must err, I'd rather do it on the side of a conservative estimate. I don't want to just assume he's a stamina beast like Kisame or Nagato.


----------



## Vice (Oct 29, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Nagato - 36
> Minato - 36.5
> Kabuto - 34
> Madara - 39
> ...



Geez, what a load of overrated horse shit.


----------



## Eliyua23 (Oct 29, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> I don't see how you got that from just looking at the stats or if you're saying that's how it should be, but I can tell you that I definitely don't agree with it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I meant physically stronger you have Itachi rated at 4 and Naruto rated at 3.5 in power, Itachi maxed out the only thing he should improve on is stamina , Naruto was at a 3.5 since the databook 3 that was a long time ago , Naruto should at least be a 4.5 and for sure he's physically stronger than Itachi


----------



## Vice (Oct 29, 2013)

Yeah, I'm not getting where this 4 in strength and high stamina ratings for Itachi are coming from.

Especially with this fanfiction version of him.


----------



## Master Sephiroth (Oct 29, 2013)

Hashirama (including SM):

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 5
Strength: 5 
Speed: 5
Intelligence: 4.5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5

Tobirama:

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 4
Strength: 4
Speed: 5
Intelligence: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5

Minato: 

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 4
Strength: 4
Speed: 5
Intelligence: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5

Madara:

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Strength: 4
Speed: 5
Intelligence: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5

Nagato:

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 4.5
Strength: 5 (Asura Path)
Speed: 4.5
Intelligence: 4
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5

Naruto (including SM):

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 4
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Intelligence: 4
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5

Sasuke:

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 4.5
Intelligence: 4.5
Stamina: 4
Seals: 5

Sakura:

Ninjutsu: 4
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 4
Strength: 5
Speed: 4
Intelligence: 4.5
Stamina: 4
Seals: 5

Kakashi:

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 4.5
Strength: 4
Speed: 4.5/5
Intelligence: 5
Stamina: 4
Seals: 5

Obito (not Juubito):

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 5
Strength: 5
Speed: 4.5/5
Intelligence: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5


----------



## Trojan (Oct 29, 2013)

Why do people even bother with itachi's state when he already has one? 
he won't be any higher than that, and I don't think kishi will put a state for the fanfiction version of him!

Also, power ups are not included! 
So, SM, BM, BSM ...etc shouldn't be in those states as well!


----------



## DeK3iDE (Oct 29, 2013)

you guys can drop all of the 40s because Kishimoto already said nobody was getting a perfect score 

That in mind, Hashirama & Madara are pretty much going to have a .5 somewhere in their stats.


----------



## Trojan (Oct 29, 2013)

Big Bad Wolf said:


> you guys can drop all of the 40s because Kishimoto already said nobody was getting a perfect score
> 
> That in mind, Hashirama & Madara are pretty much going to have a .5 somewhere in their stats.



when did he say that? :amazed


----------



## Eliyua23 (Oct 29, 2013)

Sakura
Nin: 4.5
Tai: 4
Gen: 4
Int: 5
Spe: 3.5
Str: 5
Sta: 4
Sea: 5
overall: 35

Shikamaru
Nin: 4.5
Tai: 3
Gen: 4
Int: 5
Str: 2.5
Spe: 3.5
Sta: 3.5
Sea: 4
Overall: 30

Neji
Nin: 5
Tai: 5
Int: 4
Gen: 3
Str: 3.5
Spe: 5
Sta: 4
Sea: 4
Overall: 33

Sai
Nin: 5
Tai: 4
Gen: 4
Int: 4.5
Str: 3.5
Spe: 4.5
Sta: 3.5
Sea: 5
Overall: 34

Rock Lee
Nin: 0.5
Tai: 5
Gen: 2
Int: 3.5
Str: 5
Spe: 5
Sta: 4.5
Sea: 1.5
Overall: 27

Ino
Nin: 4.5
Tai: 2
Gen:4
Int: 4
Str: 3
Spe: 3.5
Sea: 4.5
Overall: 25.5

Kankuro
Nin: 5
Tai: 3.5
Gen: 3
Int: 4
Str: 4
Spe: 3.5
Sta: 4
Sea: 5
Overall: 32

Kiba
Nin: 4.5
Tai: 4
Gen: 3
Int: 3
Str: 4
Spe: 5
Spe: 3.5
Sea: 2.5
Overall: 29.5

Suigestu
Nin: 4
Tai: 4.5
Gen: 3
Int: 3.5
Str: 4
Spe: 4
Sea: 2.5
Overall: 25.5


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 29, 2013)

Vice said:


> Geez, what a load of overrated horse shit.



You mad ? 

Actually it isn't.

Itachi's only stat that is in the low end is his stamina. I specified that it was EDO Itachi, so he logcailly should have 5 in stamina.

Also there is no such thing as stat totals, stop pulling shit out of your ass.


----------



## αce (Oct 29, 2013)

> you guys can drop all of the 40s because Kishimoto already said nobody was getting a perfect score



Kishi never changes his mind? I mean, he did say that Madara had no weaknesses compared to everyone else. And Obito is the fucking Juubi Jin. I expect them to have perfect scores.


----------



## Turrin (Oct 29, 2013)

Naruto:
Nin - 5
Tai - 4.5
Gen - 2.5
Intel - 3.5
Str - 4
Sp - 4.5
Sta - 5
Seals - 1.5

Sasuke:
Nin - 5
Tai - 3.5
Gen - 5
Intel - 4
Str - 4
Sp - 5
Sta - 4.5
Seals - 4

Sakura:
Nin - 5
Tai - 5
Gen - 3.5
Intel - 4
Str - 5
Sp - 3.5 
Sta - 3
Seals - 4

Kakashi: 
Nin - 5
Tai - 4.5
Gen - 4.5
Intel - 5
Str - 3.5
Sp - 5
Sta - 3.5
Seals - 5

Kiba:
Nin - 3.5
Tai - 3.5
Gen - 2
Intel - 2.5
Str - 3.5
Sp - 5
Sta - 3
Seals - 1.5

Choji:
Nin - 4
Tai - 3
Gen - 1
Intel - 2.5
Str - 5
Sp - 2
Sta - 4
Seals - 1.5

Ino:
Nin - 4
Tai - 1.5
Gen - 3
Intel - 3.5
Str - 3
Sp - 2.5
Sta - 2.5
Seals - 2.5

Shikamaru:
Nin - 4
Tai - 2
Gen - 3.5
Intel - 5
Str - 2.5
Sp - 3
Sta - 3.5
Seals - 3

Rock Lee:
Nin - 0.5
Tai - 5
Gen - 1
Intel - 2
Str - 5
Sp - 5
Sta - 3.5
Seals - 1

Neji:
Nin - 4.5
Tai - 5
Gen - 2
Intel - 3.5
Str - 2.5
Sp - 5
Sta - 4
Seals - 3

Shino:
Nin - 4.5
Tai - 1.5
Gen - 2
Intel - 4.5
Str - 1.5
Sp - 3.5
Sta - 3.5 
Seals - 2

Hinata:
Nin - 3
Tai - 4
Gen - 2.5
Intel - 4
Str - 1.5 
Sp - 3
Sta - 2
Seals - 3

Gaara:
Nin - 5
Tai - 2.5
Gen - 3.5
Intel - 5
Str - 3
Sp - 3.5
Sta - 5
Seals - 4.5

Temari:
Nin - 4.5
Tai - 2.5
Gen - 1.5
Intel - 4.5
Str - 3.5
Sp - 3.5
Sta - 3.5
Seals - 3.5

Kankuro:
Nin - 4.5
Tai - 3.5
Gen - 2.5
Intel - 4
Str - 3.5
Sp - 3
Sta - 4.5
Seals - 4.5

Tenten:
Nin - 3
Tai - 4
Gen - 1.5
Intel - 4
Str - 2
Sp - 3.5
Sta - 2.5
Seals - 2

Ei:
Nin - 4
Tai - 5
Gen - 3
Intel - 3.5
Str - 5
Sp - 5
Sta - 5
Seals - 2

Mei:
Nin - 5
Tai - 3.5
Gen - 3.5
Intel - 5
Str - 3
Sp - 3.5
Sta - 4
Seals - 5

Onoki:
Nin - 5
Tai - 3.5
Gen - 3.5
Intel - 5
Str - 4
Sp - 5
Sta - 5
Seals - 5

Danzo:
Nin - 5
Tai - 3.5
Gen - 5
Intel - 5
Str - 3.5
Sp - 4.5
Sta - 4
Seals - 5

Trollkage:
Nin - 5
Tai - 3.5
Gen - 5
Intel - 5
Str - 4
Sp - 5
Sta - 3.5
Seals - 5

Sandaime Raikage:
Nin - 5
Tai - 5
Gen - 3
Intel - 3.5
Str - 5
Sp - 5
Sta - 5
Seals - 2.5

Mu:
Nin - 5
Tai - 3.5
Gen - 3.5
Intel - 5
Str - 4
Sp - 5
Sta - 4.5
Seals - 5

B:
Nin - 4.5
Tai - 5
Gen - 3
Intel - 3
Str - 5
Sp - 5
Sta - 5
Seals - 2

Madara:
Nin - 5
Tai - 5
Gen - 5
Intel - 5
Str - 4
Sp - 5
Sta - 5
Seals - 5

Hashirama:
Nin - 5
Tai - 5
Gen -4.5
Intel - 5
Str - 5
Sta - 5
Sp - 5
Seals - 5

Obito:
Nin - 5
Tai - 5
Gen -5 
Intel - 4.5
Str - 5
Sta - 5
Sp -5 
Seals - 5


----------



## Nikushimi (Oct 30, 2013)

Vice said:


> Geez, what a load of overrated horse shit.



Grimmjowsensei didn't post any of that. You did. 



Eliyua23 said:


> I meant physically stronger you have Itachi rated at 4 and Naruto rated at 3.5 in power, Itachi maxed out the only thing he should improve on is stamina , Naruto was at a 3.5 since the databook 3 that was a long time ago , Naruto should at least be a 4.5 and for sure he's physically stronger than Itachi



Why? Naruto hasn't really done ANY Taijutsu training since he practiced Kawazu Kumite with Sage Mode. And that's no reason to bump him up a full tier; he trained rigorously for three years and wasn't able to improve that much.



Vice said:


> Yeah, I'm not getting where this 4 in strength and high stamina ratings for Itachi are coming from.



Probably taking into account an improvement in his health. Not everyone thinks he was in peak physical condition when he was sick.



> Especially with this fanfiction version of him.



..."Especially"? I would expect a fan fiction version of Itachi to be MORE outrageous. 



Elia said:


> Why do people even bother with itachi's state when he already has one?
> he won't be any higher than that, and I don't think kishi will put a state for the fanfiction version of him!



I'll wait to see what Kishi has to say about it, thanks.



Turrin said:


> Onoki:
> Str - 4



so interested
so interested

Yeah, bullshit. Oonoki is weak as fuck.



> Sp - 5



so interested
so interested

...And he's no faster than Deidara, whose speed is 4.5.


----------



## Deadway (Oct 30, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> Link removed
> Link removed
> 
> Yeah, bullshit. Oonoki is weak as fuck.
> ...



Onoki's punch was weak because he made himself lighter so he could move faster.
Link removed

Not saying that he's physically strong, but he has the capability of making himself strong with his weight transformation.

And Onoki kept up with Deidara in their little clash and somehow managed to get behind Mu and stop him after Naruto smashed Mu with a rasengan.


----------



## Weapon (Oct 30, 2013)

I think people are putting doubt in Third Raikage's intelligence. I honestly don't think he was some low minded wrecking machine. I think he was a 5 for everything but Nin, Gen and Seals.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 30, 2013)

Weaponess said:


> I think people are putting doubt in Third Raikage's intelligence. I honestly don't think he was some low minded wrecking machine. I think he was a 5 for everything but Nin, Gen and Seals.



I agree with that, he became that way when Kabuto took control, but then there is no evidence that he had high level of intelligence prior to that.

Since he is a brute type of fighter, I wouldn't put him past 4 - 4.5 though.


----------



## Eliyua23 (Oct 30, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 





Turrin said:


> Naruto:
> Nin - 5
> Tai - 4.5
> Gen - 2.5
> ...







*
@Turrin
*
Naruto, seals, genjutsu , and intelligence should've improved beyond that by now

I really don't see Ononki having a 5 in intelligence and speed


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (Oct 30, 2013)

Naruto:
Nin - 5
Tai - 4
Gen - 3
Intel - 4
Strength - 4
Speed - 4
Stamina - 5
Seals - 3

Sasuke:
Nin - 5
Tai - 4
Gen - 5
Intel - 4.5
Strength - 4
Speed - 4.5
Stamina - 4.5
Seals - 4

Sakura:
Nin - 5
Tai - 5
Gen - 4
Intel - 4.5
Strength - 5
Speed - 3.5
Stamina - 4
Seals - 4

Kakashi:
Nin - 4.5
Tai - 4.5
Gen - 4
Intel - 5
Strength - 4
Speed - 4.5
Stamina - 3.5
Seals - 5

Some of the rookies might see small increases (Team 10 in ninjutsu/speed/intelligence, team 8 in taijutsu and ninjutsu, team Gai in taijutsu, strength and speed). But most characters will stay relatively unchanged.​​


----------



## Jad (Oct 30, 2013)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Sakura:
> Nin - 5
> Tai - 5
> Gen - 4
> ...



Kakashi goes backwards in Ninjutsu? You know he has a 5 in it in DB3.

Also Sakura a 5 in Taijutsu? Oh, you gotta prove that. Sakura's Taijutsu is above Kakashi's? There is something wrong...


----------



## Turrin (Oct 30, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> Link removed
> Link removed
> 
> Yeah, bullshit. Oonoki is weak as fuck.
> ...


This is absolutely retarded logic Niku. Having back-issue does not mean you can't be strong and he lightened his punch at that time. The very fact that Onoki can pick up things like Turtle island and meteor, means his physical strength has to be high. Yes he light weighted them, but even lightened these objects would be very heavy yet Onoki lifted them. On-top of that to wield around Rock Fists and Super Heavy weighted Objects, also requires a good amount of strength. I'd also accept 3.5, but anything lower than that is just an underestimation of Onoki 

As for speed the dude was reacting to light-weighted Raikage's top-speed in time to use use weight alteration Jutsu & reacting to the attacks of 5 Susano'o in time to cast Jutsu. Show me Deidara having similar feats. He is clearly a 5 in speed. 



> Naruto, seals, genjutsu , and intelligence should've improved beyond that by now
> 
> I really don't see Ononki having a 5 in intelligence and speed


Naruto never advances much in those areas 

And I can't believe that Onoki having a 5 in intelligence is even in question, he's and old  Kage, he certainly has a 5. As for speed see above.


----------



## Vice (Oct 30, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Actually it isn't.



Actually, it is.



> Itachi's only stat that is in the low end is his stamina. I specified that it was EDO Itachi, so he logcailly should have 5 in stamina.



Great. Grand. Wonderful. Him being a half a digit lower than Hashirama and Madara and four whole digits greater than Kabuto and Minato is just straight bullshit substantiated by nothing but fanboy wank.



> Also there is no such thing as stat totals, stop pulling shit out of your ass.



This whole entire topic is based on "pulling shit out of your ass".


----------



## Weapon (Oct 30, 2013)

Can I ask, are these statistics based of and decided upon based on today's day and age in the actual plot like todays plot timeline. 

For example, A databook 1 - 2 Orochimaru (Alive) would of been a near 5 in most aspects but if you put that state in today's plot timeline in comparison to everyone now he would only be a 2-3 with his Edo Form and Powerups being the new near 5.

This idea works both ways, the question I'm trying to ask about these statistics is so hard to word. I just hope someone understands what I'm trying to say. > . <


----------



## Eliyua23 (Oct 30, 2013)

Turrin said:


> This is absolutely retarded logic Niku. Having back-issue does not mean you can't be strong and he lightened his punch at that time. The very fact that Onoki can pick up things like Turtle island and meteor, means his physical strength has to be high. Yes he light weighted them, but even lightened these objects would be very heavy yet Onoki lifted them. On-top of that to wield around Rock Fists and Super Heavy weighted Objects, also requires a good amount of strength. I'd also accept 3.5, but anything lower than that is just an underestimation of Onoki
> 
> As for speed the dude was reacting to light-weighted Raikage's top-speed in time to use use weight alteration Jutsu & reacting to the attacks of 5 Susano'o in time to cast Jutsu. Show me Deidara having similar feats. He is clearly a 5 in speed.
> 
> ...




he went from 1.5 to 3 in the third databook, he's had enough time from beginning of pt 2 to now to gain so much experience he should've at least went up a tier and he's consistently shown great strategies in battle, genjutsu should at least be on par with Jiriyia who had little proficient but had a lot of knowledge on it , especially from his various encounters with Itachi, even Itachi praised Naruto for his improvement in that area, seals he should also his core knowledge should've improved by now.


Onoki for one is a comic relief type of character, he's a knowledgable clown similar to Jiriyia who in my opinion  has shown superior battle Instincts and knowledge of the shinobi world and still was a 5 , Onoki wasn't characteriZed to be a genius like Hiruzen .


I mean this guy is not in his prime I could buy that when he was younger Deidara who has a 4.5 himself kept up just fine , matter of fact they seemed about even in their exchange


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 30, 2013)

Vice said:


> Actually, it is.


No.




> Great. Grand. Wonderful. Him being a half a digit lower than Hashirama and Madara and four whole digits greater than Kabuto and Minato is just straight bullshit substantiated by nothing but fanboy wank.


Sorry, but you are dumb.




> This whole entire topic is based on "pulling shit out of your ass".


Nah, it is based on estimates of what we were priorly given.

Stat total is a complete fanboy bullshit that doesn't exist in the databook.

The reason why is, that stats aren't to be added on top of each other for the purpose of comparing shinobi's power levels. And that is because those categories aren't each others equaivalent and there is no way that 4 in Ninjutsu and 3 in Speed will equate to 2 in Ninjutsu and 5 in Strength(sums being 7 if you haven't gotten already).

Especially when there are fuckloads of variables that aren't included in stats such as : Power ups, Arsenals, jutsu variety and lethality etc.


----------



## Vice (Oct 30, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Sorry, but you are dumb.



And you're a fanboy. 

So let me ask you why Itachi's taijutsu rating is higher than Nagato's when the latter effortlessly took down both Naruto and Killer Bee with it? 

Why is Nagato's genjutsu rating lower when he wields a superior doujutsu? 

Why is Naruto's taijutsu rating lower than Itachi's as well? 

What strength feats does Itachi have that warrants a 4 in strength?

Why is Kabuto a full tier slower than Itachi in speed and almost two full two tiers lower in taijutsu?


This shit just reeks of blatant fanboyism.


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## Weapon (Oct 30, 2013)

I think by this time around Kabuto should be classed as his SM / Snake Kabuto. I think he should be 38.5 - 39.


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## Godaime Tsunade (Oct 30, 2013)

Jad said:


> Kakashi goes backwards in Ninjutsu? You know he has a 5 in it in DB3.
> 
> Also Sakura a 5 in Taijutsu? Oh, you gotta prove that. Sakura's Taijutsu is above Kakashi's? There is something wrong...



Yes, that was an error obviously.

And yes. Sakura was trained by a taijutsu master with a 5 in taijutsu. It's only natural that by the end of the manga she will have equalled Tsunade in that regard.​​


----------



## Nikushimi (Oct 30, 2013)

Vice said:


> So let me ask you why Itachi's taijutsu rating is higher than Nagato's when the latter effortlessly took down both Naruto and Killer Bee with it?



Not that I agree with Itachi having better Taijutsu skill than Nagato necessarily, but Nagato primarily used Ninjutsu to deal with Naruto and Killer B.



> Why is Nagato's genjutsu rating lower when he wields a superior doujutsu?



Because Doujutsu and Genjutsu aren't the same thing; Kurenai doesn't even have a Doujutsu and she is better at Genjutsu than Sasuke (and probably most Doujutsu users). Rinnegan is not even a Genjutsu-oriented Doujutsu like the Sharingan; its focus is primarily on Ninjutsu. You don't see Rinnegan users going around mind-raping people the way Sharingan users do.



> Why is Naruto's taijutsu rating lower than Itachi's as well?



It always has been; since the ratings in this thread are just peoples' guesses, it shouldn't really come as a surprise to see some trends remain unbroken.



> What strength feats does Itachi have that warrants a 4 in strength?



Nothing overtly does, but one could say that it's based on the observation that he was able to trade blows with KCM Naruto and Killer B without being completely overpowered and the supposition that he is probably marginally stronger when he's in good health.



> Why is Kabuto a full tier slower than Itachi in speed



Probably not taking Sage Mode into account, like Jiraiya's stats don't.



> and almost two full two tiers lower in taijutsu?



Kabuto's never been good at Taijutsu (and said this more or less explicitly at one point) and he doesn't have any noteworthy feats in that area.



> This shit just reeks of blatant fanboyism.



Your posts aren't exactly making an objective argument, either.



Deadway said:


> Onoki's punch was weak because he made himself lighter so he could move faster.
> Link removed



I know that. But even though it was lightened, it was still considered _weak_; contrast with A's lightened punch, which knocked Muu on his ass and evidently surprised Kabuto. Weight difference alone cannot account for that, since a fist normally only weighs...what, like half a pound/a quarter of a kilogram?



> And Onoki kept up with Deidara in their little clash and somehow managed to get behind Mu and stop him after Naruto smashed Mu with a rasengan.



Deidara's speed is 4.5, like I said, and I'm pretty sure that would be enough to catch up to Muu while he's still deccelerating.



Turrin said:


> This is absolutely retarded logic Niku. Having back-issue does not mean you can't be strong



That is actually exactly what it means.



> and he lightened his punch at that time.



Like I said above, a human fist doesn't weigh that much in the first place, and Oonoki's is especially tiny. When the Raikage's body was lightened, his punch still had a lot more force behind it- that's because he is (in all likelihood) thousands of times stronger than Oonoki, physically.



> The very fact that Onoki can pick up things like Turtle island and meteor, means his physical strength has to be high.



Uh...no. It means he has a Jutsu that can manipulate their weight and make them light as feathers.



> Yes he light weighted them, but even lightened these objects would be very heavy yet Onoki lifted them.



What is the basis for this claim? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say there isn't one. We don't have any explicit or verifiable figure showing the extent to which Oonoki can manipulate an object's weight, but we DO know two things: 1) Oonoki had no problems lifting the turtle island and the meteor once he adjusted their weight and 2) Oonoki was unable to lift his backpack _without adjusting its weight_ and ended up hurting his back when he tried.



> On-top of that to wield around Rock Fists and Super Heavy weighted Objects, also requires a good amount of strength.



Unless you can _change their weight_.



> I'd also accept 3.5, but anything lower than that is just an underestimation of Onoki



I don't care what you accept; the fact is, you're wrong and your refusal to "accept" a lower rating is rooted entirely in your own biased perception of the character.

There would be nothing wrong with Oonoki having less strength than Haku or part 1 Sakura; all of his feats would still make sense predicated on his weight-manipulating ability.

The only decisive strength feat Oonoki has without that ability is the backpack feat, which shows that he is exactly as weak as his appearance would suggest to the rational mind. A 100-year-old midget, who has back problems and probably has not seen much physical activity in a while as a direct consequence of that, is not the kind of person you would expect to have strength on par with the likes of Kisame and Gai, or even Kakashi and Itachi for that matter.



> As for speed the dude was reacting to light-weighted Raikage's top-speed in time to use use weight alteration Jutsu & reacting to the attacks of 5 Susano'o in time to cast Jutsu. Show me Deidara having similar feats. He is clearly a 5 in speed.



Deidara doesn't have any Jutsu that he can activate that quickly, but reacting to the Raikage's speed is not as big a deal as you are making it out to be. If he could physically dodge it, that would be one thing, but all he did was change the Raikage's weight at a precise moment through physical contact. No seals or anything.



> And I can't believe that Onoki having a 5 in intelligence is even in question, he's and old  Kage, he certainly has a 5.



Old age/experience isn't the same as intelligence; Oonoki could still easily be a 4 or a 4.5 in that area. Maybe even lower.



Vice said:


> This whole entire topic is based on "pulling shit out of your ass".



Then why are you complaining when other people do it?


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 30, 2013)

Vice said:


> And you're a fanboy.


I am glad we are in agreement.




> So let me ask you why Itachi's taijutsu rating is higher than Nagato's when the latter effortlessly took down both Naruto and Killer Bee with it?


Nagato didn't take down B and Naruto with Taijutsu.
His chamelon grabbed Naruto, caught by surprise.
B got caught because of shared vision and Asura's mechanical limbs.
None of them anything to do with taijutsu.
You can evaluate Nagato's taijutsu proficiency only through Deva realm's display, and while I think it is decent, it wasn't anything special. 

Also considering that Nagato isn't too much of a physical fighter, that his whole ninjutsu arsenal makes necessity of Taijutsu null, I wouldn't consider him to be a specialist.
I'd rate him somewhere around 3.5 to 4.5 and I thought 4 would be accurate.




> Why is Nagato's genjutsu rating lower when he wields a superior doujutsu?


What does it have anything to do with genjutsu ? 




> Why is Naruto's taijutsu rating lower than Itachi's as well?


We should ask, what has Naruto shown that would make us assume that he is in Itachi's tier in taijutsu ? 




> What strength feats does Itachi have that warrants a 4 in strength?


Itachi already had tier 3.5 str when he was alive. He had actually pretty decent strength feats.
And as an Edo, he casually blocked a charging SM User. 
This was just an assumption on my part, without a terminal sickness(which effected his stamina and speed/reflexes) his physical condition would be alot better.
But I wouldn't insist on this. Could remain 3.5, it isn't a vital stat for Itachi anyways.




> Why is Kabuto a full tier slower than Itachi in speed and almost two full two tiers lower in taijutsu?


Kabuto's databook 3 speed was 3 or 3.5(during the time he was trying to absorb Orochimaru), so I reckon he'd increase in speed a little bit.
Kabuto hasn't shown any taijutsu proficiency, so I have no motive to place him anything above 3.5 and that would be generous.

Kabuto is also a body modification and power up user as well, his base "physical stats"(str-speed) are pretty much irrelevant.



> This shit just reeks of blatant fanboyism.



So damn ironic coming from you. Your judgement is so clouded by hatred for a fictional character and his fanbase that you don't even have the capacity to try to read and acutally understand what people type, you are spewing the same nonsense ever since, with no actualy effort to make a fair assessment of things.

Seriously, read my post carefully, I am sure you'll at least agree on some parts now that I expressed my self in more detail.


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## SaiST (Oct 30, 2013)

Guys, knock it off. More about the stats and less about those who are posting them, please.


----------



## Nikushimi (Oct 30, 2013)

*Hashirama*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 4.5
Power: 4
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5

*Tobirama*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 4.5
Intelligence: 5
Power: 4
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 4.5
Seals: 5

*Izuna*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 4.5
Intelligence: 4
Power: 4
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 4
Seals: 5

*Tajima*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Power: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5


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## Turrin (Oct 30, 2013)

Eliyua23 said:


> he went from 1.5 to 3 in the third databook,


That was from 3 years of traveling the world with a legendary sannin teaching him. It's much more accurate to look at how his intel increased form DBI to DBII, when considering the increase he would get here. He got a .5 increase between those 2 DBs, which is what I gave him.



> ad enough time from beginning of pt 2 to now to gain so much experience he should've at least went up a tier


DBIII is covers up to the Pain Arc, so he'd have only since the Pain Arc to increase his intel, and I gave him 1/2 a tier.



> nd he's consistently shown great strategies in battle


Battle strategies have never been covered completely in the Intelligence state. Intelligence stat only measures IQ and knowledge. Naruto's strategies come from creativity and unpredictability, an element he's always had (though he's gotten a bit better), but has never been accounted for in his intelligence stat.



> genjutsu should at least be on par with Jiriyia who had little proficient but had a lot of knowledge on it


Naruto has zero proficiency; J-man may have been able to cast basic illusions. In terms of knowledge J-man is a 50 yo Sannin, while Naruto is 16; his knowledge of illusions would be much more than Naruto's.



> especially from his various encounters with Itachi, even Itachi praised Naruto for his improvement in that area, seals he should also his core knowledge should've improved by now.


His encounters with Itachi were he was praised happened within the context of DBIII. So they wouldn't increase his stat in DBIV.



> Onoki for one is a comic relief type of character,


I don't know how you have come to the point where you see Onoki being comic relief, unless your referring to his single back problem joke; not that being used for comic relief denotes intelligence what-so-ever, considering that Shikkamaru has been used as comic relief  before and he is incredibly intelligent. 



> he's a knowledgable clown similar to Jiriyia .


Onoki has never once clowned around, the two characters couldn't be more different.



> ho in my opinion has shown superior battle Instincts and knowledge of the shinobi world


Onoki's exp and shit was praised by Madara of all people, I see no reason to believe he isn't a 5. 



> Onoki wasn't characteriZed to be a genius like Hiruzen .


He was characterized as having a shit ton of exp, which speaks towards knowledge, which also factors into the intelligence stat; and there is nothing that makes me think Onoki isn't smart. You don't have to be a super genius to have a 5 in intel. Tsunade is not some super genius and she has a 5 in intel. Chiyo is also not a super genius (and she is another example of the super old ninja, that is more similar to Onoki than J-man) also has a 5 in intel.



> I mean this guy is not in his prime I could buy that when he was younger Deidara who has a 4.5 himself kept up just fine , matter of fact they seemed about even in their exchange


The speed stat measures movement speed and reflex speed. Deidara may have similar movement speed to Onoki (if Kishi counts flight), but Onoki's reflex-speed has a far more impressive feat than anything Deidara has; He was able to react to light-weight Raikage's top speed, for F's sake to use a Jutsu at the second Raikage's punch connected with a target. That is literally one of the most impressive reflex feats in the entire manga.


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## Turrin (Oct 30, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> That is actually exactly what it means.


Yet I know people who can occasionally have issues with slipping disks in their back, but are still very strong. And that is in the real world, rather than ninja world where Will-power magically allows someone to ignore this outright.



> Like I said above, a human fist doesn't weigh that much in the first place, and Oonoki's is especially tiny. When the Raikage's body was lightened, his punch still had a lot more force behind it- that's because he is (in all likelihood) thousands of times stronger than Oonoki, physically.


Onoki's punch being weak was especially explained as him being light-weighted, so there is no reason to argue this. When did Raikage when light-weighted hit anything? On top of that no one was even saying Onoki is equivalent to Raikage in strength? 



> Uh...no. It means he has a Jutsu that can manipulate their weight and make them light as feathers.


Where was it stated that Onoki made turtle island have the weight of a feather? He clearly implies it's still heavy here:
Chapter 603

And in the meteors case it's very clear that it was still heavy, because he was still straining heavily to hold it back, until Gaara's sand came to help him, and Gaara used a shit load of sand to do so.



> Unless you can change their weight.


He changed the weight of Rock fist, to make it heavier not lighter.



> I don't care what you accept; the fact is, you're wrong and your refusal to "accept" a lower rating is rooted entirely in your own biased perception of the character.


LOL, yeah there is no way you can prove whose right or wrong, when were all just guess what the author is going rate someone like. Before DB III someone could have guessed Orochimaru would get a 5 in Genjutsu, and we would have thought there was no way since Orochimaru had shown zero Genjutsu feats, yet he nonetheless would have been right. So yeah it's stupid to say someone is wrong about guessing stats.

And your mouth should never open and form the words bias, because you have zero credibility to speaks towards that subject. You literally gave Tajima some fodder Uchiha all 5s. And Gave Itachi stat increases to his healthy state despite the fact that the DB has never indicated it included sickness in it's stat totals and on-top of that you magically gave Itachi a 4 in str, which is vastly less justifiable than giving Onoki a 4.



> The only decisive strength feat Oonoki has without that ability is the backpack feat, which shows that he is exactly as weak as his appearance would suggest to the rational mind. A 100-year-old midget, who has back problems and probably has not seen much physical activity in a while as a direct consequence of that, is not the kind of person you would expect to have strength on par with the likes of Kisame and Gai, or even Kakashi and Itachi for that matter.


Would you expect Master Roshi to have the strength to topple mountains, Yoda to be able to lightspader duel flipping around like a madman against count duku, etc... it is an extremely common trope in fiction that the old dude that looks like he's physical weak isn't. There is no difference here and if you basing your estimate on the back-pack scene that was thrown in as a joke, your logic is god aweful



> Deidara doesn't have any Jutsu that he can activate that quickly, but reacting to the Raikage's speed is not as big a deal as you are making it out to be. If he could physically dodge it, that would be one thing, but all he did was change the Raikage's weight at a precise moment through physical contact. No seals or anything.


This is a big deal 99% of people would not have time to use any Jutsu before  lightweighted Raikage could strike. Sauske with MS barely could use Enton (a sealess Jutsu) before Raikage could completely his attack, and that was a none-light-weighted Raikage; and were talking about an someone at that point who probably has a 5 in speed and Sharingan. Madara couldn't even do anything, let alone cast a Jutsu, and he has hand-seales less abilities he can use. 



> Old age/experience isn't the same as intelligence; Oonoki could still easily be a 4 or a 4.5 in that area. Maybe even lower.


Exp speaks towards knowledge, which is part of the intel stat.


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## Rax (Oct 30, 2013)

Itachi will be mega over exaggerated by Kishi.


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## Jad (Oct 30, 2013)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Yes, that was an error obviously.
> 
> And yes. Sakura was trained by a taijutsu master with a 5 in taijutsu. It's only natural that by the end of the manga she will have equalled Tsunade in that regard.​




I wouldn't call Tsunade a Taijutsu Master. Rather Lee and Gai are the only ones I would regard as Taijutsu Masters, as per the Databooks description of them both. I'd call Tsunade a Taijutsu Practioner, but she hasn't shown anything other then very liner and direct forward cocked back punches, and a CQC exchange with Kabuto who considered himself _not so skilled in Taijutsu_. Yes, 20 years of practice, rusty, all that jazz, but she hasn't had many fights.

As for Sakura, end of series is pretty much upon us, and she has yet to demonstrate 5/5 Taijutsu. She has shown she can can punch really hard, then get jumped on by a Juubl'ing which she needed saving from, as per the illustration. I mean she literally needed saving from the falling pikes raining down from the sky by Kakashi. Someone with 5/5 Taijutsu should have the reflexes to dodge them by themselves. If you want to talk about _end of series/I], meaning you believe a time skip will take place, then I can see why you would say 5/5._​


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## Nikushimi (Oct 30, 2013)

Turrin said:


> Yet I know people who can occasionally have issues with slipping disks in their back, but are still very strong. And that is in the real world, rather than ninja world where Will-power magically allows someone to ignore this outright.



Except if you're an old man and the back problems are chronic; it means you are old and have back problems and can't exert yourself because your body can't handle it. 

We are not talking about professional athletes in their 20s and 30s slipping disks.



> Onoki's punch being weak was especially explained as him being light-weighted, so there is no reason to argue this.



There is a reason, because the human fist does not weigh that much in the first place.



> When did Raikage when light-weighted hit anything?



I just provided the scan in my last post. I even told you "like I said above." 



> On top of that no one was even saying Onoki is equivalent to Raikage in strength?



You gave him a 5, which is just...holy shit. If it's not equivalent, it's at least in the same ballpark, and it's a tremendous hop, skip, and a jump above what most Kage-level shinobi are capable of, despite Oonoki not even being the Taijutsu type or even using it frequently (and completely ignoring the fact that he is an old midget with back problems).



> Where was it stated that Onoki made turtle island have the weight of a feather? He clearly implies it's still heavy here:
> Chapter 603



I was using a turn of phrase, but Oonoki insinuating that the island is still heavy _*for him*_ in no way implies that it's heavy for anyone else. The comment still holds true even if you operate from the premise that Oonoki is weaker than your average prepubescent girl.



> And in the meteors case it's very clear that it was still heavy, because he was still straining heavily to hold it back, until Gaara's sand came to help him, and Gaara used a shit load of sand to do so.



That's because the asteroid/meteor/whatever was in motion, possessing kinetic energy. Even if the weight is adjusted, that doesn't just go away; energy is always conserved and has to be released somehow or in some other form.

It's inertia, man; a body at rest tends to stay at rest, and a body in motion tends to stay in motion. With all the downward momentum that thing was packing, it's amazing Oonoki and Gaara were able to stop it at all, although Kishi probably doesn't understand the implications of it because he doesn't understand the basic physical principles and just assumed that reducing the weight would make it easier to stop.

Unless the thing was moving at a snail's pace, but that would still generate a tremendous amount of energy for something that massive.



> He changed the weight of Rock fist, to make it heavier not lighter.



I don't recall Oonoki ever swinging around superweighted objects or rock fists; when he destroyed the Mizukage's clam, he just put his hands on top of it and crushed the thing.



> LOL, yeah there is no way you can prove whose right or wrong, when were all just guess what the author is going rate someone like. Before DB III someone could have guessed Orochimaru would get a 5 in Genjutsu, and we would have thought there was no way since Orochimaru had shown zero Genjutsu feats, yet he nonetheless would have been right. So yeah it's stupid to say someone is wrong about guessing stats.



Weren't you the one who was just saying "I won't accept anything lower than a 3.5; anything lower is just underestimating Oonoki"? I think you were (that's rhetorical; I _know_ you were saying that, because you _did_ say that).



> And your mouth should never open and form the words bias, because you have zero credibility to speaks towards that subject. You literally gave Tajima some fodder Uchiha all 5s.



Over millions of years, some of us have evolved a sense of humor.



> And Gave Itachi stat increases to his healthy state despite the fact that the DB has never indicated it included sickness in it's stat totals



The assumption is that the stats reflect the characters as they are, not as they would hypothetically be under ideal conditions. That seems reasonable.



> and on-top of that you magically gave Itachi a 4 in str, which is vastly less justifiable than giving Onoki a 4.



By what reasoning? 



> Would you expect Master Roshi to have the strength to topple mountains, Yoda to be able to lightspader duel flipping around like a madman against count duku, etc... it is an extremely common trope in fiction that the old dude that looks like he's physical weak isn't. There is no difference here



Master Roshi is buff as fuck when he maxes-out. Yoda has the Force mastered better than virtually any other Jedi. More importantly, they both have the feats to back up the trope. Oonoki has exactly one strength feat without weight manipulation, and when somebody points it out to you, you go and say this shit...



> and if you basing your estimate on the back-pack scene that was thrown in as a joke, your logic is god aweful



_Why?_



> This is a big deal 99% of people would not have time to use any Jutsu before  lightweighted Raikage could strike. Sauske with MS barely could use Enton (a sealess Jutsu) before Raikage could completely his attack, and that was a none-light-weighted Raikage; and were talking about an someone at that point who probably has a 5 in speed and Sharingan. Madara couldn't even do anything, let alone cast a Jutsu, and he has hand-seales less abilities he can use.



Sasuke's speed was 4.5 in the last databook, and he DID manage to react during the Raikage's attack. Case in point. You can't really say that Sharingan helped him, either, because the Raikage got out of his LOS and went in from behind.

More importantly, this only shows Oonoki's reaction time and not his physical movement speed, which we have seen is only on par with Deidara's.



> Exp speaks towards knowledge, which is part of the intel stat.



Knowledge and experience aren't equivalent; knowledge is what you gain from experience, but the kind of knowledge Oonoki has gained and the quality of it don't necessarily make him a top tier genius.



Red Hero said:


> Itachi will be mega over exaggerated by Kishi.



Kishi is the author, lol; Itachi is whatever he says he is.


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## Kanki (Oct 30, 2013)

When is this DB out then? Hasn't it been coming for years?

The only characters I'm really interested in seeing are those who we haven't seen yet, and also Kakashi seeing as he's the character that's grown the most. Kabuto too I guess.


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## Deleted member 45015 (Oct 30, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 



​



Not only can you guess most of them anyway for the majority of the upper tier characters - which lets be honest are the only ones most people give a damn about - but stats are universally considered to be _unreliable _anyway.


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## MS81 (Oct 30, 2013)

Kakashi:
Nin - 5
Tai - 4.5
Gen - 4.5
Intel - 5
Strength - 4
Speed - 5
Stamina - 3.5
Seals - 5
=36.5  this is Kakashi level right now. Remember he showed us a new Jutsu and better precision with Kamui.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 31, 2013)

CM Pope said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No one cares bro. That is why this thread went on for 20 pages 

Gotta love posts like this.



Kakashi Is God said:


> When is this DB out then? Hasn't it been coming for years?
> 
> The only characters I'm really interested in seeing are those who we haven't seen yet, and also Kakashi seeing as he's the character that's grown the most. Kabuto too I guess.



its been 5 years since the last one came out. 

Normally it should have been released, but Kishimoto might be waiting to end the manga to release another one, considering that this is probably the last arc.


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## Mayweather (Oct 31, 2013)

Naruto:
Nin - 5
Tai - 4.5
Gen - 3
Intel - 3.5
Str - 4
Sp - 4
Sta - 5
Seals - 1.5

Sasuke:
Nin - 5
Tai - 4.5
Gen - 5
Intel - 4.5
Str - 4
Sp - 5
Sta - 4.5
Seals - 4

Sakura:
Nin - 4
Tai - 4
Gen - 3.5
Intel - 4
Str - 5
Sp - 3.5 
Sta - 4
Seals - 4

Kakashi: 
Nin - 5
Tai - 4.5
Gen - 4.5
Intel - 5
Str - 4
Sp - 5
Sta - 3.5
Seals - 5


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## Eliyua23 (Oct 31, 2013)

> That was from 3 years of traveling the world with a legendary sannin teaching him. It's much more accurate to look at how his intel increased form DBI to DBII, when considering the increase he would get here. He got a .5 increase between those 2 DBs, which is what I gave him.



I don't think it's that accurate considering since the Pain Arc and thru the war he's gained a ton of knowledge and experience facing against a myriad of jutsu he's also got some experience being able to lead a team and also he can rely on the Kyuubi's knowledge and intelligence as well.



> DBIII is covers up to the Pain Arc, so he'd have only since the Pain Arc to increase his intel, and I gave him 1/2 a tier.



but look how much experience he's gained since then




> Battle strategies have never been covered completely in the Intelligence state. Intelligence stat only measures IQ and knowledge. Naruto's strategies come from creativity and unpredictability, an element he's always had (though he's gotten a bit better), but has never been accounted for in his intelligence stat.



how so when all of the highly intelligent ninja have shown great strategy in battle, Naruto's knowledge was always the thing that hurt him as he didn't mastered the basics of being a ninja and didn't know a lot about the shinobi world, guys like Kakashi, Jiriyia, Itachi, Shika always show great strategy in battle yes he was creative and unpredictable in the past but during the war he's used intel and strategy even in a team setting throughout this entire war, like against 3rd Raikage, and with the rookies against Obito.




> Naruto has zero proficiency; J-man may have been able to cast basic illusions. In terms of knowledge J-man is a 50 yo Sannin, while Naruto is 16; his knowledge of illusions would be much more than Naruto's.



the only genjutsu Jiriyia has shown was frog song thru ma/pa, something Naruto should also have access to then on top of that he's got full control of Kyuubi so casting an illusion on him should be near impossible.




> His encounters with Itachi were he was praised happened within the context of DBIII. So they wouldn't increase his stat in DBIV.



He then got another encounter with koto, he should now know there is all to know about genjutsu in the shinobi world



> I don't know how you have come to the point where you see Onoki being comic relief, unless your referring to his single back problem joke; not that being used for comic relief denotes intelligence what-so-ever, considering that Shikkamaru has been used as comic relief  before and he is incredibly intelligent.



he's the zany old man, that's how he's been portrayed since day one, it's just that it's been a war going on so we can't really see it, even his character desing makes it hard to take him really serious, Shikmaru main attribute is his intelligence though and really his comic relief was apart of his character growth during the rescue Sasuke arc since then he's actually turned into kind of a self righteous dick.






> Onoki's exp and shit was praised by Madara of all people, I see no reason to believe he isn't a 5.



Jiriyia has just as much if not more experience considering all he did was travel the world and has better in battle strats




> He was characterized as having a shit ton of exp, which speaks towards knowledge, which also factors into the intelligence stat; and there is nothing that makes me think Onoki isn't smart. You don't have to be a super genius to have a 5 in intel. Tsunade is not some super genius and she has a 5 in intel. Chiyo is also not a super genius (and she is another example of the super old ninja, that is more similar to Onoki than J-man) also has a 5 in intel.



Tsunade is a highly intelligent ninja though , she created medical ninjutsu which is one of the hardest type of techniques to master , Chiyo showed more keen analysis and insight of the shinobi world than Onoki has.



> The speed stat measures movement speed and reflex speed. Deidara may have similar movement speed to Onoki (if Kishi counts flight), but Onoki's reflex-speed has a far more impressive feat than anything Deidara has; He was able to react to light-weight Raikage's top speed, for F's sake to use a Jutsu at the second Raikage's punch connected with a target. That is literally one of the most impressive reflex feats in the entire manga.



A could've used his Raiton shroud to boost Onoki's reflexes as well he's not been noted for speed 4.5 suits his character well


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## Turrin (Oct 31, 2013)

Eliyua23 said:


> I don't think it's that accurate considering since the Pain Arc and thru the war he's gained a ton of knowledge and experience facing against a myriad of jutsu he's also got some experience being able to lead a team and also he can rely on the Kyuubi's knowledge and intelligence as well.


He faced a ton of opponents with a myriad of different Jutsu types from the time of DB I to DBII; yet he got a .5 increase not a 1. 



> how so when all of the highly intelligent ninja have shown great strategy in battle, Naruto's knowledge was always the thing that hurt him as he didn't mastered the basics of being a ninja and didn't know a lot about the shinobi world, guys like Kakashi, Jiriyia, Itachi, Shika always show great strategy in battle yes he was creative and unpredictable in the past but during the war he's used intel and strategy even in a team setting throughout this entire war, like against 3rd Raikage, and with the rookies against Obito.


And he's gotten more intelligent, a 3.5 is well above average (2.5), so that reflects that.



> the only genjutsu Jiriyia has shown was frog song thru ma/pa, something Naruto should also have access to then


Yeah but would it be surprising if he knew some basic D-Rank Genjutsu? 



> on top of that he's got full control of Kyuubi so casting an illusion on him should be near impossible.


This has nothing to do with the Genjutsu stat; Genjutsu stat measures proficiency of casting Genjutsu and knowledge of Genjutsu. Genjutsu defense in the sense of Kyuubi breaking him out wouldn't matter.



> He then got another encounter with koto, he should now know there is all to know about genjutsu in the shinobi world


So he learned about 1 more Genjutsu, is that really enough to put someone up an entire Tier; I kind of doubt it.



> he's the zany old man, that's how he's been portrayed since day one


When?



> Shikmaru main attribute is his intelligence though and really his comic relief was apart of his character growth during the rescue Sasuke arc since then he's actually turned into kind of a self righteous dick.


None of this changes the fact that Shikkamaru despite his intelligence was used as comic relief. Chiyo has also been used for comic relief, she still has a 5 in intelligence. Tsunade was used for comic relief and she has a 5 in intelligence. There is nothing at all that denotes a character whose been used for comic relief can't get a 5 in intelligence.

Also your entire criteria is making no sense to me, because on one hand your arguing Naruto should get a 4 or higher in intelligence, simply because he acquired a bit more experience fighting various enemies post-Pain arc, but Onoki has like 70 to 80 years of experience where he's fought in wars (including this one) since the time of Madara. So if the exp Naruto gained from the Pain arc allows Naruto to move up a full tier, there is no way in hell that Onoki is anything less than a 5, by your own logic.



> Jiriyia has just as much if not more experience considering all he did was travel the world and has better in battle strats


There is no basis for this. Onoki has been fighting in wars since Jiraiya was in diapers and has continued to fight in wars since Jiraiya has been pushing up daisies. Jiraiya was not praised by by someone like Madara for his exp; Madara being thee most experienced Ninja in the entire world at this point considering his excessively long-life. 

Jiraiya traveling the world does not suddenly grant him a pass of being more experienced than someone with Onoki's resume. Do you honestly believe Onoki during the countless wars he's participated in has no traveled the world himself? 



> Tsunade is a highly intelligent ninja though , she created medical ninjutsu which is one of the hardest type of techniques to master


Inventing a Ninjutsu or 2 does not denote having a 5 in intelligence. Sasuke invented tons of Chidori variants and S-Rank Kirin over the time-skip yet he only had a 3.5 in intelligence in DB III.  Yes Tsunade intelligence stat being high is a pretty obvious conclusion, but so is the intelligence stat of someone who has the level of exp of Onoki.



> Chiyo showed more keen analysis and insight of the shinobi world than Onoki has.


Onoki had his exp praised by Uchiha Madara, that alone triumphs anything Chiyo showed in terms of her own experientially based insight.



> A could've used his Raiton shroud to boost Onoki's reflexes as well


This is 100% fanficition. Never has it been indicated that Raiton no Yoroi can be used this way and Onoki would have commented if his reflexes suddenly shot through the roof. 



> as well he's not been noted for speed 4.5 suits his character well


The Ei feat itself is noting his speed; and it's not the only one, Onoki also managed to fight against 5 Stage 3 Susna'o and land weight alteration on all 5; This is the same sage of Susano'o whose non-EMS variant was shown blitzing Danzo. Danzo kept up with Sasuke in speed, so Danzo speed has to be at least a 4.5 + Sharingan -- though it might be higher if Sasuke increased his speed since DBIV -- and Danzo was up against 1 Stage 3 Susano'o, which wasn't even the EMS variant. The fact that Onoki managed against 5 attacking him all at once, easily shows at least his reflexes should be above those of Danzo; which would place him at a 5. And i'm not saying his movement speed is beyond a 4.5, i'm saying his reflexes are; and since the speed tier in the DB is a combo of movement speed and reflex speed, I lean towards him getting a 5.


----------



## johnsuwey (Oct 31, 2013)

Ino is greater than Shino?  Come on now...


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## Csdabest (Oct 31, 2013)

johnsuwey said:


> Ino is greater than Shino?  Come on now...



Highly believable. The type of fight Shino is  that he is a Beast Master like Kiba. Though the way he fights with his animal is a stationary style. He has no real need for above average Physical stats, or stats in nin, gen, or tai either because he uses his bugs to help him fight and do all the work in a very potent aoe style.

Suigetsu:

Nin: 3.5
Tai: 4
Gen: 3.5
Str: 4
Sta: 3.5
Spd: 4
Intel: 3.5
Seal: 3

Total: 29

Karin:

Nin: 3
Tai: 3
Gen: 4.5
Str: 3.5
Sta: 4
Spd: 3
Int: 4
Sea: 3.5

Total: 28.5

Raikage:

Nin: 3.5
Tai: 5
Gen: 3
Sta: 5
Spd: 5
Str: 5
Sel: 4.5
Inl: 3.5

Total: 34.5

Mei

Nin: 5
Tai: 3.5
Gen: 3
Spd: 4
Str: 3.5
Sta: 4
Int: 3.5
Sel: 3.5

total: 30

Oonoki:

Nin: 5
Gen: 4
Tai: 3
Spd: 3.5
Str: 3.5
Sta: 3.5
Seal: 3.5
Int: 5

Total: 31

Danzo:

Nin: 5
Gen: 5
Tai: 4.5
Sta: 5
Spd: 4.5
Str: 4
Int: 4.5
Sel: 5

Total: 37.5

Mifune:

Nin: 3.5
Tai: 5
Gen: 3
Str: 4
Sta: 4.5
Spd: 5
Sel: 3
Int: 4

total: 32


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## Bansai (Oct 31, 2013)

Csdabest said:


> Suigetsu:
> 
> Nin: 3.5
> Tai: 4
> ...



I mostly agree with these two, but I can't really agree to a few points.

*Suigetsu*

Nin: Suigetsu's Ninjutsu should be on a higher level. He has shown so many impressive Ninjutsu feats.

Tai: He has shown to be a swordsman that can handle his blade just as good as Zabuza, and Zabuza had a 4.5 at Taijutsu. I would give Suigetsu the same amount of points.

Gen: Suigetsu has shown no Genjutsu feats and doesn't seem to be the type who focuses on such things. You should probably give him a lower amount of points there.

Str: Agreeable.

Sta: Maybe a lower score because he constantly needs to drink water to keep his techniques up. He won't be able to fight for a long time if he doesn't get a break so he can drink.

Sp: That's a very high score considering that his speed was nowhere near impressive or anything like that.

Int: He doesn't look like it, but he came up with so many clever plans.  Especially when he fought Bee. He might be a bit smarter than that. 

Seal: Agreeable.

So I'd say:


Nin: 4.5 (+1)
Tai: 4.5 (+0.5)
Gen: 3 (-0.5)
Str: 4
Sta: 3 (-0,5)
Spd: 3.5 (-0.5)
Intel: 4 (+0.5) 
Seal: 3

Total: 
29.5 (+0.5)



*Karin*

Nin: Karin has impressive Ninjutsu abilities. She has shown no offensive one, but she is capable of using three Ninjutsu abilities that are most likely S-rank abilities. Her sensor ability is the best there is, her Heal Bite heals better than any other Jutsu and her regeneration ability is unbelievably impressive. She deserves a much higher score there.

Tai: Agreeable.

Gen: She can merely sense Genjutsu. That is because of her superior Ninjutsu abilities. Genjutsu wise she has shown nothing and I don't really think she has any kind of Genjutsu abilities. I think 4.5 is way too much.

Str: Agreeable

Sta: She is an Uzumaki and has proven to be extremely resistant. She deserves a bit more

Spd: I think that might be a way too much. She seemed to be rather slow, especially when it came to dodging attacks. She had to throw herself away because she wasn't fast enough to dodge Mei Terumi's attack. She was also too slow to react when Danzo kicked her.

Intel: Karin is known to be extremely smart. 0.5 more and it's fitting. 

Sea: Since she seems to have no kind of offensive Ninjutsu abilities which need seals, I think 0.5 less are more fitting.

That's why I'd say:

Nin: 4.5 (+1.5)
Tai: 3 
Gen: 2.5 (-2)
Str: 3.5
Sta: 4.5 (+0,5)
Spd: 2 (-1)
Intel: 5 (+1) 
Seal: 2.5 (-1)

Total: 27.5 (-1)


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## LogiaMaster666 (Nov 8, 2013)

>Naruto
> 4/5 intelligence.

Pick one.


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## niko88 (Dec 5, 2013)

Naruto:
Gen 4/2
Nin 5/4
Tai 4.5/3.5
Speed 5/3.5
Sta 5/5
Strenght 4.5/3.5
Seals 2.5/1.5
Knowledge 4.5/3
 total 35 from 26


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## Furubodiburo (Dec 5, 2013)

Neji Hyuga: 
Ninjutsu: 4.5 (+0.5)
Taijutsu: 5 (+0.5)
Genjutsu: 3 (+1)
Intelligence: 4 (+1)
Strength: 3 (+0.5)
Speed: 4.5 (+0)
Stamina: 4 (+0.5)
Seal: 3 (+0)
Total: 31 (from 27)

That's crazy.  If Neji's speed was 4.5 since the onset of Shippuden, it should be 5 by now.
Since that wouldn't allow for a whole number, the Ninjutsu should simply be brought to 5.  He is quite versatile anyway.


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## Turrin (Oct 10, 2014)

*DBIV Final Stat Predictions*

So according to Takl the Fanbook that was set to be released on Nov 4th is actually a Data-book. That means it's likely we'll get to see updated Stats charts in several weeks. Additionally I think we've pretty much seen all were going to see at this point from most characters. So I figured i'd make one last of these threads for people to put there final Stat predictions in, and so we can look back, and see who was the closest.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Oct 10, 2014)

Seriously, what worth are those stats now? 

The power-levels went all out of whack in the war arc alone.


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## Turrin (Oct 10, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Seriously, what worth are those stats now?
> 
> The power-levels went all out of whack in the war arc alone.


They are worthless for some characters that have a million power ups, but they are not worthless for others


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## Velocity (Oct 10, 2014)

Maybe the scale will go up to 10 this time.


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## Harbour (Oct 10, 2014)

Hokages:

Hashirama
Nin - 5
Tai - 5
Gen - 5
Int - 4
Str - 5
Sta - 5
Spe - 4.5
Sea - 5

Sum - 38.5

Tobirama

Nin - 5
Tai - 4.5
Gen - 4
Int - 5
Str - 4
Spe - 4.5
Sta - 5
Sea - 5

Sum - 37


Minato 
Nin - 5
Tai - 4.5
Gen - 4
Int - 5
Str - 3.5
Sta - 5
Spe - 5
Sea - 5

Sum - 37


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## Turrin (Oct 10, 2014)

Velocity said:


> Maybe the scale will go up to 10 this time.


I find it more likely that we'll see certain stats go off the charts as that's usually how it's done, if the stat board can no longer reflect someone's strength. I'd rather it go to ten, but i'm just being realistic.


----------



## Kuromaku (Oct 10, 2014)

*Here we go again*

Well, if this isn't a familiar thread. But I'll bite. Here's the scores of characters before shit went totally whack (Post-Year of Sasuke to Before Obito).

*Killer B*
*Ninjutsu:* 5
*Taijutsu:* 4.5
*Genjutsu:* 2.5
*Intelligence:* 3.5
*Strength:* 5
*Speed:* 4.5
*Stamina:* 5
*Seals:* 3.5
*Total:* 32.5

*Nagato*
*Ninjutsu:* 5
*Taijutsu:* 4
*Genjutsu:* 3.5
*Intelligence:* 5
*Strength:* 0/3.5
*Speed:* 0/3
*Stamina:* 5
*Seals:* 5
*Total:* 27.5/34

*Konan*
*Ninjutsu:* 5
*Taijutsu:* 3.5
*Genjutsu:* 3.5
*Intelligence:* 4.5
*Strength:* 3
*Speed:* 4.5
*Stamina:* 4
*Seals:* 3.5
*Total:* 31.5

*A*
*Ninjutsu:* 4.5
*Taijutsu:* 5
*Genjutsu:* 3
*Intelligence:* 3.5
*Strength:* 5
*Speed:* 5
*Stamina:* 5
*Seals:* 3.5
*Total:* 34.5

*Darui*
*Ninjutsu:* 5
*Taijutsu:* 4.5
*Genjutsu:* 3
*Intelligence:* 4
*Strength:* 4
*Speed:* 4
*Stamina:* 4
*Seals:* 4.5
*Total:* 33

*Terumi Mei*
*Ninjutsu:* 5
*Taijutsu:* 3.5
*Genjutsu:* 3
*Intelligence:* 4
*Strength:* 3
*Speed:* 4
*Stamina:* 3.5
*Seals:* 4
*Total:* 30

*Oonoki*
*Ninjutsu:* 5
*Taijutsu:* 3.5
*Genjutsu:* 3.5
*Intelligence:* 5
*Strength:* 2
*Speed:* 4
*Stamina:* 3
*Seals:* 5
*Total:* 31

*Yakushi Kabuto*
*Ninjutsu:* 5
*Taijutsu:* 4
*Genjutsu:* 4.5
*Intelligence:* 5
*Strength:* 3
*Speed:* 4
*Stamina:* 5
*Seals:* 5
*Total:* 35.5

*Hanzo*
*Ninjutsu:* 5
*Taijutsu:* 4.5
*Genjutsu:* 3.5
*Intelligence:* 5
*Strength:* 3.5
*Speed:* 4
*Stamina:* 3.5
*Seals:* 4.5
*Total:* 33.5

*Fourth Kazekage*
*Ninjutsu:* 5
*Taijutsu:* 3.5
*Genjutsu:* 3.5
*Intelligence:* 4.5
*Strength:* 3
*Speed:* 3.5
*Stamina:* 5
*Seals:* 4
*Total:* 33

*Mu*
*Ninjutsu:* 5
*Taijutsu:* 4
*Genjutsu:* 3.5
*Intelligence:* 5
*Strength:* 3.5
*Speed:* 4.5
*Stamina:* 3.5
*Seals:* 4.5
*Total:* 33.5

*Third Raikage*
*Ninjutsu:* 5
*Taijutsu:* 5
*Genjutsu:* 3
*Intelligence:* 3.5
*Strength:* 5
*Speed:* 5
*Stamina:* 5
*Seals:* 3.5
*Total:* 35

*Second Mizukage*
*Ninjutsu:* 5
*Taijutsu:* 3.5
*Genjutsu:* 5
*Intelligence:* 4.5
*Strength:* 3.5
*Speed:* 3.5
*Stamina:* 4
*Seals:* 4.5
*Total:* 33.5


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## crisler (Oct 10, 2014)

Those stats...I wonder if they'll actually mean much.

The stats aren't meant to compare one to another, nor do they seem to accurately reflect one's aptitude. Itachi and Jiraiya, who're no where close to Madara and Hashirama already had 35.5 out of 40. Then we've got juubi jins, kaguya, rikudo, and even current naruto/sasuke who're all above madara/hashirama. unless they come up with a completely new stat system that covers everyone....the current one won't mean much.

the stats aren't used to compare one to another, but to reflect one's proficiency in a certain field. but that is also vague, as itachi and oro can't possibly have the same genjutsu proficiency. i'd like to think that it probably means both itachi and oro reached a similar level compared to their respective potential, but then jiraiya/narutos' low stats in genjutsu goes against that logic. they have absolutely no talent in genjutsu, yet still have very low stats in it meaning they had the potential to be good at it. I don't buy this: a shinobi of jiraiyas' level being unaware of his own talent in certain field just doesn't make sense.


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## Turrin (Oct 10, 2014)

crisler said:


> Those stats...I wonder if they'll actually mean much.
> 
> The stats aren't meant to compare one to another, nor do they seem to accurately reflect one's aptitude. Itachi and Jiraiya, who're no where close to Madara and Hashirama already had 35.5 out of 40. Then we've got juubi jins, kaguya, rikudo, and even current naruto/sasuke who're all above madara/hashirama. unless they come up with a completely new stat system that covers everyone....the current one won't mean much.
> 
> the stats aren't used to compare one to another, but to reflect one's proficiency in a certain field. but that is also vague, as itachi and oro can't possibly have the same genjutsu proficiency. i'd like to think that it probably means both itachi and oro reached a similar level compared to their respective potential, but then jiraiya/narutos' low stats in genjutsu goes against that logic. they have absolutely no talent in genjutsu, yet still have very low stats in it meaning they had the potential to be good at it. I don't buy this: a shinobi of jiraiyas' level being unaware of his own talent in certain field just doesn't make sense.


The stats are meant to be compared. It's just that people have to use their brain and follow the guidlines  to do so. Let's take your example of Orochimaru and Itachi, both have a 5 in Genjutsu. Meaning they are both extremely proficient in Genjutsu and have a great deal of knowledge of Genjutsu. However that doesn't mean they have equally powerful Genjutsu. As the stat does not account for what techniques you develop with that proficiency (or in Itachi's case are blessed with).

Basically Orochimaru may be around Itachi's level in his skill at using/casting illusions and his knowledge of them, but if Orochimaru only applies that skill to learning basic illusions. While Itachi applies that skill to learning high order illusions like Three-Tome Illusions, Uchiha-Kinjutsu, and MS-Genjutsu, obviously Itachi's Genjutsu is going to be much more deadly than Orochimaru's.

Or to give another example if you have 2 Marksmen w/ relatively equal skill, and you give both of them the same hand-gun they'd get similar results. However if you give one a pistol and the other a sniper rifle, the one with the rifle will still get better results than the one with the pistol. The same applies to Orochimaru and Itachi, if both of them casted some basic Illusion they'd probably get similar high order results, but if Orochmaru casts a basic illusion and Itachi cast Tsukuyomi, Itachi's results are still going to be vastly better.

So the way I look at it, is that the stats tell you how skilled of a Ninja a person is, but not necessarily how deadly. Orochimaru is top class in Genjutsu skill like Itachi, but Itachi is more deadly with Genjutsu due to techniques he possesses.


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## WT (Oct 10, 2014)

Naruto
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5
Total: 37

Sasuke
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 4
Speed: 5
Stamina: 4
Seals: 4
Total: 37


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## crisler (Oct 10, 2014)

Turrin said:


> The stats are meant to be compared. It's just that people have to use their brain and follow the guidlines  to do so. Let's take your example of Orochimaru and Itachi, both have a 5 in Genjutsu. Meaning they are both extremely proficient in Genjutsu and have a great deal of knowledge of Genjutsu. However that doesn't mean they have equally powerful Genjutsu. As the stat does not account for what techniques you develop with that proficiency (or in Itachi's case are blessed with).
> 
> Basically Orochimaru may be around Itachi's level in his skill at using/casting illusions and his knowledge of them, but if Orochimaru only applies that skill to learning basic illusions. While Itachi applies that skill to learning high order illusions like Three-Tome Illusions, Uchiha-Kinjutsu, and MS-Genjutsu, obviously Itachi's Genjutsu is going to be much more deadly than Orochimaru's.
> 
> ...



hmm, but isn't the 'techniques' also included in that proficiency?

or are you suggesting that the stats would seem more appropriate once we exclude all types of KG and natural/exterior gifts?


----------



## Wrath (Oct 10, 2014)

I predict that the stats will be as worthless as ever.


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (Oct 10, 2014)

It'll look like this 

*Hashirama Senju*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 4.5
Speed: 3.5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5
*Total:* 38

*Tobirama Senju*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 3.5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 4
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 4
Seals: 5
*Total:* 35

*Minato Namikaze*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 4.5
Seals: 5
*Total:* 36

*Kushina Uzumaki*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 3.5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 4
*Total:* 33

*Konohamaru Sarutobi*
Ninjutsu: 3.5
Taijutsu: 3
Genjutsu: 1
Intelligence: 1
Strength: 2
Speed: 2.5
Stamina: 3
Seals: 2
*Total:* 18

*Obito Uchiha*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 4
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5
*Total:* 36.5

*Madara Uchiha*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 4
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5
*Total:* 38

*Naruto Uzumaki*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 4
Speed: 4
Stamina: 5
Seals: 3
Total: 32

*Sakura Haruno*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 3.5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 4
Speed: 4
Stamina: 4
Seals: 4
*Total:* 34

*Sasuke Uchiha*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 4
*Total:* 36

*Kakashi Hatake*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 4.5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 4
Seals: 5
*Total:* 36

*Shikamaru Nara*
Ninjutsu: 4.5
Taijutsu: 2
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 2.5
Speed: 3
Stamina: 3.5
Seals: 3
*Total:* 26

*Ino Yamanaka*
Ninjutsu: 4.5
Taijutsu: 2.5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 3.5
Strength: 2.5
Speed: 3
Stamina: 3
Seals: 4
*Total:* 26

*Chouji Akimichi*
Ninjutsu: 4.5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 2
Intelligence: 2.5
Strength: 5
Speed: 3
Stamina: 3.5
Seals: 1.5
*Total:* 26

*Rock Lee*
Ninjutsu: 0.5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 1
Intelligence: 2
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 4.5
Seals: 1
*Total:* 24

*Tenten*
Ninjutsu: 4
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 1.5
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 1.5
Speed: 4
Stamina: 3
Seals: 2
*Total:* 24

*Neji Hyuuga*
Ninjutsu: 4.5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 2
Intelligence: 3.5
Strength: 2.5
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 4
Seals: 3
*Total:* 29

*Hinata Hyuuga*
Ninjutsu: 3.5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 2.5
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 2
Speed: 3
Stamina: 2.5
Seals: 3
*Total:* 25

*Kiba Inuzuka*
Ninjutsu: 4.5
Taijutsu: 3.5
Genjutsu: 2
Intelligence: 2.5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 3
Seals: 1.5
*Total:* 25

*Shino Aburame*
Ninjutsu: 4.5
Taijutsu: 2.5
Genjutsu: 2
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 1.5
Speed: 3
Stamina: 3.5
Seals: 2.5
*Total:* 24

*Anko Mitarashi*
Ninjutsu: 4
Taijutsu: 3
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 2.5
Strength: 3
Speed: 3
Stamina: 4
Seals: 3.5
*Total:* 27

*Killer B*
Ninjutsu: 4
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 3.5
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 3
*Total:* 33

*Nagato*
]Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 2
Speed: 4
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5
*Total:* 34

*Konan*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3.5
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 3
Speed: 4
Stamina: 4
Seals: 4.5
*Total:* 32.5

*Suigetsu*
Ninjutsu: 4
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 2
Intelligence: 2
Strength: 4
Speed: 4
Stamina: 3
Seals: 3
*Total:* 27

*Karin*
Ninjutsu: 4.5
Taijutsu: 2.5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 2.5
Speed: 2.5
Stamina: 3.5
Seals: 3
*Total:* 26

*Jugo*
Ninjutsu: 3
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 2
Intelligence: 3.5
Strength: 4
Speed: 4
Stamina: 3.5
Seals: 3
*Total:* 27

*Ei*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 3.5
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 3
*Total:* 34.5

*Darui*
Ninjutsu: 4.5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 4
Stamina: 3.5
Seals: 4
*Total:* 31.5

*C*
Ninjutsu: 4
Taijutsu: 3
Genjutsu: 4.5
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 3
Speed: 3
Stamina: 3
Seals: 4
*Total:* 29

*Kinkaku*
Ninjutsu: 4
Taijutsu: 3
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 2
Strength: 4.5
Speed: 3.5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 3
*Total:* 28

*Ginkaku*
Ninjutsu: 4
Taijutsu: 3
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 2
Strength: 4.5
Speed: 3
Stamina: 5
Seals: 3.5
*Total:* 28

*Mei Terumi*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 4
Stamina: 3.5
Seals: 5
*Total:* 34.5

*Chojuro*
Ninjutsu: 3.5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 3.5
Intelligence: 3.5
Speed: 3
Stamina: 4
Seals: 3
*Total:* 24.5

*Ao*
Ninjutsu: 4
Taijutsu: 3
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 4.5
Speed: 3
Stamina: 3
Seals: 3
*Total:* 24.5

*Onoki*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3
Speed: 4
Stamina: 3.5
Seals: 5
*Total:* 34.5

*Kitsuchi*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3.5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 4
Speed: 3.5
Stamina: 4
Seals: 4
*Total:* 31

*Kurotsuchi*
Ninjutsu: 4.5
Taijutsu: 2.5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 3.5
Strength: 2.5
Speed: 3
Stamina: 3
Seals: 4
*Total:* 26

*Akatsuchi*
Ninjutsu: 4
Taijutsu: 2.5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 3
Strength: 3
Speed: 3
Stamina: 3
Seals: 3.5
*Total:* 25

*Yakushi Kabuto*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3.5
Genjutsu: 4.5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3
Speed: 4
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5
*Total:* 35

*Hanzo*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 4
Stamina: 4
Seals: 4.5
*Total:* 34

*Mifune*
Ninjutsu: 3.5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 2
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 4
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 4
Seals: 3
*Total:* 31

*Fourth Kazekage*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3
Genjutsu: 4.5
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 3
Speed: 3
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5
*Total:* 33

*Mu*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 4.5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 3.5
Stamina: 4
Seals: 5
*Total:* 34.5

*Third Raikage*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 3.5
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 3
*Total:* 34.5

*Second Mizukage*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3.5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 4
Stamina: 4
Seals: 5
*Total:* 34.5​​


----------



## Overhaul (Oct 10, 2014)

Tobirama Senju
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 5
Strength:4.5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5
Total: 37


Despite the fact that I hate the thot,Kaguya's stats are gonna be off the fucking charts. All 10s, except for intelligence and taijutsu.1 on intelligence and 0.5 on taijutsu. I don't see her doing any hardcore taijutsu with that manicure of hers. Wouldn't wanna break a nail afterall.


----------



## Kyu (Oct 10, 2014)

*Minato Namikaze*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 3.5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 4
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5
*Total: 37*

*Kushina Uzumaki*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 3.5
Strength: 4
Speed: 3.5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5
*Total: 33*

*Naruto Uzumaki*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 3.5
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 4
Speed: 4
Stamina: 5
Seals: 4
*Total: 34*


----------



## Trojan (Oct 10, 2014)

Kyu you stole the 3 characters I wanted! How dare you! 

****
the states are good for the characters that did not get much time to show their abilities in different fields. The Itachi/Oro thing with the Genjutsu does not proof anything. Tayuya fodderstompped itachi 
with 1 jutsu, which was genjutsu, does that mean itachi does not know or can't handle any Genjutsu because Tayuya fodderized him? No. 

*******
Minato:

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 4
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5
Total: 38

Kushina:

Ninjutsu: 4
Taijutsu: 3
Genjutsu:3.5 
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 4
Speed: 3
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5
Total 32

the child:

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 5 
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 3
Total: 35.5


Hashirama:
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 3
Strength: 5
Speed: 4
Stamina: 5
Seals: 3
Total: 33.5

Tobirama:
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 4
Speed: 5
Stamina: 4
Seals: 4
Total: 34


U_U


----------



## StickaStick (Oct 10, 2014)

Tbh I'm still not entirely sure how these things work or are formulated, but I'll give it a try anyway :/

*Obito*:

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 4.5
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5
Total: 38


----------



## The Undying (Oct 10, 2014)

Turrin said:


> So the way I look at it, is that the stats tell you how skilled of a Ninja a person is, but not necessarily how deadly. Orochimaru is top class in Genjutsu skill like Itachi, but Itachi is more deadly with Genjutsu due to techniques he possesses.




This. It's more about measuring skill and proficiency than power levels and was always intended to be that way.


----------



## Ghost (Oct 10, 2014)

Minato:

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 4
Seals: 5

Total: 34


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Oct 10, 2014)

Dat cap is gonna look ugly


----------



## Gilgamesh (Oct 10, 2014)

Databooks are a bunch of shit and full of lies why do people care about them?


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Oct 10, 2014)

Cuz they wanna prove "their favorite character" > "other's favorite character"


----------



## Beyonce (Oct 10, 2014)

*Tsunade*
Ninjutsu: 2
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 5
Speed: 4
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5
Total: 34


----------



## Trojan (Oct 10, 2014)

Almighty Hancock said:


> *Tsunade*
> Ninjutsu: 2
> Taijutsu: 5
> Genjutsu: 3
> ...



You know she already has one and she has 35, right?


----------



## Beyonce (Oct 10, 2014)

Hussain said:


> You know she already has one and *she has 35*, right?



Only having 1 legit fight in Part 2 really makes you rusty I guess


----------



## Richard Lionheart (Oct 11, 2014)

Here is my list:
A
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 2,5
Intelligence: 3
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 4
Total: 34,5

Onoki 
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3
Genjutsu: 4,5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3
Speed: 3,5
Stamina: 3,5
Seals: 5
Total: 32,5


Mei
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3
Genjutsu: 3,5
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 3
Speed: 3,5
Stamina: 4
Seals: 5
Total: 31



Gaara
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 2,5
Genjutsu: 3,5
Intelligence:4,5
Strength: 3
Speed: 3,5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5
Total: 32



Tsunade:
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3,5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 5
Speed: 4
Stamina: 4
Seals: 4
Total: 35,5



Kabuto
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3,5
Speed: 4
Stamina: 4,5
Seals: 5
Total: 36

Uchiha Madara
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 4,5
Strength: 3,5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5
Total: 38

Hashirama Senju
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 4,5
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5
Total: 38,5

Tobirama Senju
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 4,5
Intelligence: 4,5
Strength: 3,5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5
Total: 37,5

Hiruzen Sarutobi(Prime)
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3,5
Speed: 3,5
Stamina: 4
Seals: 5
Total: 36

Minato Namikaze(before he died)
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3,5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3,5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 4,5
Seals: 5
Total: 36,5



Almighty Hancock said:


> *Tsunade*
> Ninjutsu: 2
> Taijutsu: 5
> Genjutsu: 3
> ...


----------



## Dangubic (Oct 11, 2014)

Sakura strenght 5 and Naruto speed 5 that you must change


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Oct 11, 2014)

I just have to ask, what sets a "5" now? Before, this kinda made sense because there seemed to be a clear plateau but the whole Rikudou shit threw that outta whack didn't it?


----------



## Altair21 (Oct 11, 2014)

Why do people still care about DBs? Are some of you that obsessed with the "my favorite character is better/stronger than yours" schtick?


----------



## Turrin (Oct 11, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> I just have to ask, what sets a "5" now? Before, this kinda made sense because there seemed to be a clear plateau but the whole Rikudou shit threw that outta whack didn't it?


The DB measures proficiency and knowledge, not what techniques a person has (or what effect the quality of chakra has on those techniques). So you have Rikudo-Sennin who has godly techniques, but is he really any more proficient in mastering and utilizing techniques than Kakashi; or does he just have more potent Techniques and chakra than Kakashi? Personally I think it's the latter.


----------



## Rai (Oct 11, 2014)

Minato:

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5

Total: 40


----------



## Hexa (Oct 11, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> I just have to ask, what sets a "5" now? Before, this kinda made sense because there seemed to be a clear plateau but the whole Rikudou shit threw that outta whack didn't it?



A couple examples of a "5" for ninjutsu would be Ukon*  and probably Rikudou-sennin (if his stats are included)..


*Not including Sakon -- Sakon only has a 4 in ninjutsu.


----------



## Deynard (Oct 11, 2014)

Turrin said:


> So according to Takl the Fanbook that was set to be released on Nov 4th is actually a Data-book. That means it's likely we'll get to see updated Stats charts in several weeks. Additionally I think we've pretty much seen all were going to see at this point from most characters. So I figured i'd make one last of these threads for people to put there final Stat predictions in, and so we can look back, and see who was the closest.



Where Takl said that?


----------



## The Undying (Oct 11, 2014)

Turrin said:


> The DB measures proficiency and knowledge, not what techniques a person has (or what effect the quality of chakra has on those techniques). So you have Rikudo-Sennin who has godly techniques, but is he really any more proficient in mastering and utilizing techniques than Kakashi; or does he just have more potent Techniques and chakra than Kakashi? Personally I think it's the latter.



They also only measure base forms apparently. In the first databook, there were small notes under a lot of the stats and some of them would mention things like "When fighting together with Akamaru, Kiba's fighting ability will greatly exceed the above-mentioned data" or "This data is about his/her normal state" for Sound Four characters. You can find them under Shounensuki's translations .


----------



## babaGAReeb (Oct 11, 2014)

i predict kaguyas intelligence stat, -5


----------



## Turrin (Oct 11, 2014)

The Undying said:


> They also only measure base forms apparently. In the first databook, there were small notes under a lot of the stats and some of them would mention things like "When fighting together with Akamaru, Kiba's fighting ability will greatly exceed the above-mentioned data" or "This data is about his/her normal state" for Sound Four characters. You can find them under Shounensuki's translations .


It depends on the stat. Gen, Nin, and Tai were never meant to measure the techniques a person has, but just how skillful they are in that specific art. On the other hand Strength is a measurement of a person's physical might. So when the DB says Kiba's fighting ability rises with Akamaru, it's most likely because his physical might would increase; or that CS increases S4's fighting ability it's because physical strength would also increase, and so would Spd, Stamina, etc... There proficiency with Ninjutsu wouldn't rise though


----------



## Vice (Oct 11, 2014)

Here's all current stat ranks, by the way:


*Spoiler*: __ 



NINJUTSU
Jiraiya		5
Itachi		5
Orochimaru	5
Tsunade		5
Kakashi		5
Sasori		5
Hiruzen		5
Kakuzu		5
Deidara		5
Chiyo		5
Sasuke		5
Hidan		5
Gaara		5
Ukon		5

Asuma		4.5
Kisame		4.5
Kabuto		4.5
Dan		4.5
Yamato		4.5
Zabuza		4.5
Shizune		4.5
Genma		4.5

Kimimaro		4
Kurenai		4
Baki		4
Sai		4
Neji		4
Kankuro		4
Naruto		4
Ebisu		4
Kidomaru		4
Sakon		4
Temari		4
Hayate		4
Shino		4

Hiashi		3.5
Iruka		3.5
Anko		3.5
Shikamaru		3.5
Kiba		3.5
Ino		3.5
Haku		3.5
Rin		3.5
Choji		3.5
Zaku		3.5

Might Guy		3
Hizashi		3
Sakura		3
Tayuya		3
Jirobo		3
Yashamaru	3
Hinata		3
Tenten		3
Obito		3

Ibiki		2.5
Dosu		2.5

Rock Lee		0.5




TAIJUTSU
Tsunade		5
Hiruzen		5
Might Guy		5
Kimimaro		5
Hiashi		5
Rock Lee		5

Jiraiya		4.5
Itachi		4.5
Kakashi		4.5
Asuma		4.5
Kisame		4.5
Chiyo		4.5
Hidan		4.5
Zabuza		4.5
Neji		4.5

Sasori		4
Kakuzu		4
Yamato		4
Kurenai		4
Hizashi		4
Jirobo		4

Orochimaru	3.5
Kabuto		3.5
Deidara		3.5
Sasuke		3.5
Dan		3.5
Baki		3.5
Sai		3.5
Ibiki		3.5
Naruto		3.5
Iruka		3.5
Ebisu		3.5
Hinata		3.5
Tenten		3.5

Genma		3
Kankuro		3
Sakura		3
Sakon		3
Hayate		3
Ukon		3
Kiba		3
Choji		3

Anko		2.5
Kidomaru		2.5
Temari		2.5

Shizune		2
Gaara		2
Tayuya		2
Shikamaru		2
Obito		2
Dosu		2
Zaku		2

Yashamaru	1.5
Ino		1.5
Shino		1.5
Rin		1.5

Haku		1




GENJUTSU
Itachi		5
Orochimaru	5
Hiruzen		5
Kurenai		5
Tayuya		5

Kabuto		4.5
Ibiki		4.5

Kakashi		4
Sasori		4
Sasuke		4
Shizune		4
Anko		4

Tsunade		3.5
Asuma		3.5
Deidara		3.5
Chiyo		3.5
Dan		3.5
Yamato		3.5
Baki		3.5
Gaara		3.5
Sakura		3.5
Ebisu		3.5
Hayate		3.5

Jiraiya		3
Kakuzu		3
Might Guy		3
Hidan		3
Kimimaro		3
Sai		3
Genma		3
Shikamaru		3
Ino		3

Kisame		2.5
Zabuza		2.5
Iruka		2.5
Yashamaru	2.5
Hinata		2.5
Rin		2.5

Hiashi		2
Hizashi		2
Neji		2
Kankuro		2
Naruto		2
Kiba		2
Shino		2
Zaku		2

Kidomaru		1.5
Temari		1.5
Tenten		1.5
Obito		1.5
Dosu		1.5

Sakon		1
Ukon		1
Jirobo		1
Rock Lee		1
Haku		1
Choji		1




INTELLIGENCE
Itachi		5
Orochimaru	5
Tsunade		5
Kakashi		5
Sasori		5
Hiruzen		5
Kabuto		5
Chiyo		5
Shikamaru		5

Jiraiya		4.5
Asuma		4.5
Kakuzu		4.5
Deidara		4.5
Dan		4.5
Yamato		4.5
Shizune		4.5
Iruka		4.5
Ebisu		4.5

Kurenai		4
Gaara		4
Ibiki		4
Sakura		4
Kidomaru		4
Temari		4
Yashamaru	4
Shino		4
Haku		4
Rin		4

Kisame		3.5
Sasuke		3.5
Kimimaro		3.5
Baki		3.5
Sai		3.5
Kankuro		3.5
Hayate		3.5
Tayuya		3.5
Ukon		3.5
Hinata		3.5
Tenten		3.5

Might Guy		3
Hidan		3
Zabuza		3
Hiashi		3
Hizashi		3
Neji		3
Genma		3
Naruto		3
Ino		3

Sakon		2.5
Jirobo		2.5
Dosu		2.5

Anko		2
Rock Lee		2
Kiba		2
Choji		2

Obito		1
Zaku		1




STRENGTH
Tsunade		5
Kisame		5
Might Guy		5
Jirobo		5

Jiraiya		4.5
Rock Lee		4.5
Choji		4.5

Asuma		4
Kakuzu		4
Hidan		4
Zabuza		4
Hizashi		4
Baki		4
Ibiki		4

Itachi		3.5
Orochimaru	3.5
Kakashi		3.5
Deidara		3.5
Chiyo		3.5
Sasuke		3.5
Dan		3.5
Yamato		3.5
Hiashi		3.5
Kankuro		3.5
Naruto		3.5
Sakon		3.5
Temari		3.5

Sasori		3
Hiruzen		3
Kabuto		3
Kimimaro		3
Sai		3
Genma		3
Sakura		3
Anko		3
Ukon		3
Yashamaru	3
Kiba		3

Shizune		2.5
Gaara		2.5
Neji		2.5
Iruka		2.5
Ino		2.5

Kurenai		2
Kidomaru		2
Hayate		2
Shikamaru		2
Obito		2

Hinata		1.5
Shino		1.5
Haku		1.5
Tenten		1.5
Dosu		1.5

Ebisu		1
Tayuya		1
Rin		1
Zaku		1




SPEED
Itachi		5
Might Guy		5

Jiraiya		4.5
Orochimaru	4.5
Kakashi		4.5
Sasori		4.5
Asuma		4.5
Deidara		4.5
Sasuke		4.5
Kimimaro		4.5
Baki		4.5
Neji		4.5
Rock Lee		4.5
Kiba		4.5

Kisame		4
Kakuzu		4
Chiyo		4
Dan		4
Yamato		4
Zabuza		4
Hiashi		4
Kurenai		4
Shizune		4
Hizashi		4
Haku		4

Tsunade		3.5
Kabuto		3.5
Hidan		3.5
Sai		3.5
Genma		3.5
Naruto		3.5
Tenten		3.5

Hiruzen		3
Gaara		3
Ibiki		3
Sakura		3
Anko		3
Kidomaru		3
Sakon		3
Temari		3
Hayate		3
Tayuya		3
Ukon		3
Shino		3
Obito		3
Dosu		3

Kankuro		2.5
Iruka		2.5
Shikamaru		2.5
Yashamaru	2.5
Hinata		2.5
Ino		2.5
Zaku		2.5

Ebisu		2
Jirobo		2
Rin		2
Choji		2




STAMINA
Jiraiya		5
Sasori		5
Kisame		5
Might Guy		5
Hidan		5
Gaara		5
Naruto		5

Kakuzu		4.5
Kimimaro		4.5
Hizashi		4.5

Tsunade		4
Deidara		4
Dan		4
Zabuza		4
Hiashi		4
Kankuro		4
Anko		4
Kidomaru		4
Sakon		4
Jirobo		4

Orochimaru	3.5
Asuma		3.5
Sasuke		3.5
Yamato		3.5
Neji		3.5
Rock Lee		3.5
Choji		3.5

Kakashi		3
Hiruzen		3
Kabuto		3
Shizune		3
Sai		3
Ibiki		3
Genma		3
Iruka		3
Temari		3
Tayuya		3
Shikamaru		3
Shino		3

Itachi		2.5
Baki		2.5
Sakura		2.5
Yashamaru	2.5
Kiba		2.5
Ino		2.5
Rin		2.5
Obito		2.5

Chiyo		2
Kurenai		2
Ebisu		2
Hayate		2
Ukon		2
Hinata		2
Haku		2
Tenten		2
Dosu		2

Zaku		1




HAND SEALS
Itachi		5
Orochimaru	5
Kakashi		5
Hiruzen		5
Kabuto		5
Hiashi		5
Shizune		5
Hizashi		5

Jiraiya		4.5
Chiyo		4.5
Kurenai		4.5
Ebisu		4.5

Tsunade		4
Sasori		4
Sasuke		4
Dan		4
Zabuza		4
Baki		4
Gaara		4
Sai		4
Genma		4
Kankuro		4
Sakura		4
Iruka		4
Kidomaru		4
Sakon		4
Tayuya		4
Ukon		4
Haku		4
Rin		4

Asuma		3.5
Kisame		3.5
Kakuzu		3.5
Deidara		3.5
Hidan		3.5
Yamato		3.5
Hayate		3.5
Yashamaru	3.5

Kimimaro		3
Ibiki		3
Neji		3
Anko		3
Temari		3
Shikamaru		3
Hinata		3
Obito		3

Might Guy		2.5
Ino		2.5

Jirobo		2
Shino		2
Tenten		2

Naruto		1.5
Kiba		1.5

Rock Lee		1
Choji		1
Dosu		1
Zaku		1


----------



## The Undying (Oct 11, 2014)

Turrin said:


> It depends on the stat. Gen, Nin, and Tai were never meant to measure the techniques a person has, but just how skillful they are in that specific art. On the other hand Strength is a measurement of a person's physical might. So when the DB says Kiba's fighting ability rises with Akamaru, it's most likely because his physical might would increase; or that CS increases S4's fighting ability it's because physical strength would also increase, and so would Spd, Stamina, etc... There proficiency with Ninjutsu wouldn't rise though




I concur. I'm just putting it out there for the people who might freak out in case Naruto's speed isn't a perfect 5 when the next databook releases.


----------



## babaGAReeb (Oct 11, 2014)

Vice said:


> Here's all current stat ranks, by the way:
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



lol kurinari has a 5 in genjustu?

these stats r full of shit


----------



## Turrin (Oct 11, 2014)

The Undying said:


> I concur. I'm just putting it out there for the people who might freak out in case Naruto's speed isn't a perfect 5 when the next databook releases.


Well again that's because people fail to comprehend that the DB-Stats don't cover Jutsu/abilities. So things like BM, KCM, and SM, won't factor in besides the experience Naruto gained with these modes effecting something like Taijutsu or Ninjutsu proficiency. Which I why I expect Naruto to have a 5 in Taijutsu and Ninjutsu in DBIV, but i'm not sure how speed will be handled.


----------



## ScottofFury (Oct 11, 2014)

Hiruzen better have perfect 40


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Oct 11, 2014)

Vice said:


> NINJUTSU
> Jiraiya		5
> Itachi		5
> Orochimaru	5
> ...



Kishi should just retcon everything and start from scratch..


----------



## Mercurial (Oct 11, 2014)

Ei

Ninjutsu: 4,5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 3
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 3,5
Total: 34

Onoki

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 4,5
Strength: 3
Speed: 3,5
Stamina: 3,5
Seals: 5
Total: 31,5

Mei

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3
Genjutsu: 3,5
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 3
Speed: 3,5
Stamina: 4
Seals: 5
Total: 31

Gaara

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3
Genjutsu: 3,5
Intelligence: 4,5
Strength: 3
Speed: 3,5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 4
Total: 31,5

Tsunade

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3,5
Intelligence: 4,5
Strength: 5
Speed: 3,5
Stamina: 4,5
Seals: 4
Total: 35

Kabuto

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4,5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 4
Speed: 5
Stamina: 4,5
Seals: 5
Total: 38

Uchiha Madara

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 4,5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5
Total: 39,5

Hashirama Senju

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 4,5
Intelligence: 4,5
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5
Total: 39

Tobirama Senju

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 4
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 4,5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5
Total: 38,5

Minato Namikaze

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3,5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3,5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 4,5
Seals: 5
Total: 36,5

Kakashi Hatake

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 4,5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 4
Speed: 5
Stamina: 4
Seals: 5
Total: 37,5

Gai Maito 

Ninjutsu: 3,5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3,5
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 3
Total: 35

Obito Uchiha

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4,5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 4,5
Strength: 4,5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5
Total: 38,5

Naruto Uzumaki

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3,5
Intelligence: 4,5
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 4
Total: 37

Sasuke Uchiha

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4,5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3,5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 4,5
Seals: 5
Total: 37,5

I think that this should be if we base on feats.

Unluckily, the databook stats aren't made to measure and compare the shinobi's power. They are made to compare their personal progressus to their unlocked potential. That's why they are so fucking inconsistent with actual manga feats and why the values are so nonsense to begin (Itachi and Orochimaru and Kurenai can't have all 5 in genjutsu when the first raped the second and the third with a genjutsu... and Tayuya can't have 5 in genjutsu too just because she's decently skilled in that area... they all have 5/5 because they have unlocked their full potential in that field). The total of the stats doesn't even exist in the actual databook, it's an invention from the fans.


----------



## Eliyua23 (Oct 11, 2014)

Naruto

Nin: 5

Gen: 3.5

Int: 4.5

Spe: 5

Str: 5

Tai: 5

Sea: 3.5

Sta: 5

Total: 36.5



Sasuke

Nin: 5

Gen: 5

Sta: 5

Int: 4.5

Spe: 5

Str: 3.5

Tai: 4.5

Sea: 5

Total: 36.5



Minato

Nin: 5

Gen: 3.5

Sta: 4.5

Str: 4.5

Tai: 5

Spe: 5

Int: 5

Sea: 5

Total: 37.5


Tobirama

Nin: 5

Gen: 3.5

Tai: 5

Int: 5

Spe: 5

Sta: 5

Str: 4

Sea: 5

Total: 37


Obito

Nin: 5

Sta: 5

Gen: 4.5

Spe: 5

Int: 5

Str: 4.5

Tai: 4.5

Sea: 5

Obito: 38.5



Madara

Nin: 5

Gen 5

Tai: 5

Sta: 5

Str: 4

Int: 5

Sea: 5

Spe: 5

Total: 39


Hashirama

Nin: 5

Tai: 5

Str: 5

Sta: 5

Int: 5

Gen :5 

Sea: 5

Spe: 4

Total: 39


Nagato:

Nin: 5

Gen: 5

Str: 4.5

Sta: 5

Tai: 4

Spe: 4

Sea: 5

Int: 5

Total: 37



Sakura

Nin: 5

Int: 5

Str: 5

Sta: 4.5

Spe: 3

Gen: 3.5

Tai: 5

Sea: 3.5

Total: 34.5


Kakashi


Nin: 5

Gen: 4.5

Tai: 4.5

Str: 3.5

Spe: 4.5

Sta: 3.5

Int: 5

Sea: 5

Total: 35


----------



## MS81 (Oct 11, 2014)

? said:


> _Naruto:35_
> Ninjutsu:5
> Taijutsu:5
> Genjutsu:3
> ...



fixed Raikage, you put him at a 1 for knowledge....

4th war kakashi: 
Ninjutsu:5
Taijutsu:4.5
Genjutsu:4.5(0.5)
Stamina:3.5(0.5)
Speed:5(0.5)
Strength:4(0.5)
Seals:5
Knowledge:5
Total 36.5

4th war Gai: 
Ninjutsu:3.5(+0.5)
Taijutsu:5
Genjutsu:3.5(+0.5)
Stamina:5
Speed:5
Strength:5
Seals:3.5(+0.5)
Knowledge:4(+1)
Total 35


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Oct 11, 2014)

lel@ Nagato getting anything but 1's in Speed and Strength


----------



## Turrin (Oct 11, 2014)

Khris said:


> lel@ Nagato getting anything but 1's in Speed and Strength


Strength depends on whether body modification with Asura-Path count. If they do than he's getting a 5


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Oct 11, 2014)

Khris said:


> lel@ Nagato getting anything but 1's in Speed and Strength



Nagato's reaction time exceeds a lot of people's by far. Unlike guys like Sasuke and Itachi he could actually react to Bee, in a weakened state. That puts his speed at a 5. 

Strength: see Demon Realm; see what Hell Realm did; see the stuff the Pain bodies tanked. See the fact he could hold Bee up effortlessly.

Rinnegan gives you a shit ton of stat bonuses.

Now I remember a popular notion saying transformations aren't factored into stats, but bloodlines are.


----------



## Eliyua23 (Oct 11, 2014)

On second thought I'll give Nagato a 5 in strength brining his total to 37.5 tied with Minato 


Raikage

Nin: 4.5

Tai: 5

Str: 5

Spe: 5

Sta: 5

Sea: 3

Gen: 3

Int: 4

Total: 34.5


Onoki

Nin: 5

Gen: 3.5

Int: 4.5

Spe: 3.5

Sta: 4.5

Str: 3

Sea: 5 

Tai: 3.5

Total: 32.5



Gaara

Nin: 5

Int: 5

Gen: 3.5

Tai: 2.5

Spe: 4

Sta: 5

Sea: 5

Str: 3

Total 33


Mei

Nin: 5

Gen: 3.5

Tai: 3.5

Int: 4.5

Sea: 5

Str: 4

Sta: 4

Spe: 3.5

Total: 33


Danzo

Nin: 5

Sta: 4

Str: 3

Spe: 3

Sea: 5

Int: 5

Gen: 5

Tai: 4.5

Total: 34.5





Kabuto

Nin: 5

Tai: 4

Int: 5

Spe: 4

Str: 3.5

Gen: 5

Sea: 5

Sta: 4.5

Total: 36



Killer Bee


Nin: 5

Tai: 5

Str: 5

Sta: 5

Gen : 3

Sea: 3

Spe: 5

Int: 4.5

Total: 35.5


Kushina

Nin: 5

Tai: 4

Str: 4

Gen: 3.5

Int: 4.5

Sea: 3.5

Sta: 5

Spe: 4

Total: 33.5


----------



## Kyuubi Naruto (Oct 12, 2014)

Just going with the basics
*
Naruto*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 3.5
Intelligence: 4
Stamina: 5
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Seals: 4.5

*Sasuke*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 4
Stamina: 5
Strength: 4
Speed: 5
Seals: 4.5

*Obito*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Stamina: 5
Strength: 4.5
Speed: 5
Seals: 5

*Madara*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Stamina: 5
Strength: 4.5
Speed: 5
Seals: 5

*Raikage*
Ninjutsu: 4
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3.5
Intelligence: 4
Stamina: 5
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Seals: 3

*Nagato*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Stamina: 5
Strength: 1
Speed: 1
Seals: 5


----------



## adeshina365 (Oct 12, 2014)

Considering Sasuke's current stamina and chakra feats, how doesn't he deserve a 5/5 in stamina?


----------



## takL (Oct 12, 2014)

Deynard said:


> Where Takl said that?



i dont remember myself but i might have mentioned it somewhere in the anime section. 

 Naru-pro(naruto project) section in wsj says

The 4th Official Character Data Book (well they call it Character Official Data Book)
"Hiden Jin no Sho (≒secret book of formation)" set to be released in November. 
It covers from "the attack of pain" to the close of "the 4th ninja world war" with plenty of top-secret info.

includes 
-the 33 pages of that 'road to naruto the movie' chap.
-a new long kish interview about his creation of shinobis and jutsus. ie how he came up with those charas and stuff.
-data on 270 shinobis and 232 jutsus. largest scale ever

The first printing comes with a 忍識札 ninja-identification tag which works with a dedicated App. the details will follow.


----------



## Trojan (Oct 12, 2014)

How long is this Databook going to be? If you know. @>@
kinda hard to think it's only 391 page. @>@


----------



## Jad (Oct 12, 2014)

Sought of sucks for Gai because his main stats for how he fights are already maxed out in 3 Databooks. They should bump up the stats to 10 already so we can a better idea. To see the difference between say Kurenai's Genjutsu 5 stat and Itachi's 5. Tsunade's Taijutsu stat and Gai's Taijutsu stat, which are both 5s.


----------



## Closet Pervert (Oct 12, 2014)

I think Madara would have at least 4.5 in Taijutsu. Kishi made a point about showing his skillz.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Oct 12, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Strength depends on whether body modification with Asura-Path count. If they do than he's getting a 5



Wont happen bro.. You yourself said Jutsus don't count.. Pain is just that; a Jutsu..



Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Nagato's reaction time exceeds a lot of people's by far. Unlike guys like Sasuke and Itachi he could actually react to Bee, in a weakened state. That puts his speed at a 5.
> 
> Strength: see Demon Realm; see what Hell Realm did; see the stuff the Pain bodies tanked. See the fact he could hold Bee up effortlessly.
> 
> ...



"Speed" is a broad term when it comes to stuff like this.. I doubt it's _just _reaction time.. Movement is also a huge factor.. See Sasuke vs. Lee in the chunin exam arc..

Nagato's Rinnegan is the same as Kakashi's Sharingan.. It'll shave the physical stats like with Kakashi..


----------



## Altair21 (Oct 12, 2014)

takL said:


> i dont remember myself but i might have mentioned it somewhere in the anime section.
> 
> Naru-pro(naruto project) section in wsj says
> 
> ...



Oh this is nice. Hopefully we'll get a set criteria for what the prerequisites to awaken susanoo truly are seeing as it's been a source of huge debates around here. It'll also be nice to get more info on PS as we still don't know what the exact requirements are to achieve it. Hopefully it'll explain a bit about Sasuke's rinnegan as well as we still don't know why his eye has that design.

Could care less about the character stats.


----------



## Kyuubi Naruto (Oct 12, 2014)

adeshina365 said:


> Considering Sasuke's current stamina and chakra feats, how doesn't he deserve a 5/5 in stamina?



Depends on the shinobi really. I've just went ahead and changed Sasuke's to a 5 but I was really debating upon it. A 5 for Sasuke wouldn't be the same as a 5 for Naruto or even a 5 for Kisame since each chart isn't based on a general scale but rather each shinobi's own personal potential. 

With that said, Sasuke's either going to be a 4.5 or a 5. Maybe a 5 now since this might be as "great" as his chakra can go with his potential level, who knows.


----------



## -Ziltoid- (Oct 12, 2014)

Who cares about stats when Kishi consistently shows he doesn't give a damn about consistency in powerlevels? 

That said, comparing Naruto, or even Sasuke, to any other character would be a bit silly. I mean, if Naruto had to be rated for stamina or chakra capacity, he would score at least a 10 on a 5/5 scale.


----------



## Altair21 (Oct 12, 2014)

I'm not even sure how the stats in the Data Books are scored. I know modes aren't taken into account, but that's pretty much it. Either way, Sasuke should have a 5 in stamina as it's pretty clear he has an enormous chakra reserve. 9 chibaku tensei effortlessly, PS multiple times effortlessly, rinnegan s/t jutsu multiple times, and other pretty taxing jutsu as well. He's fought Madara, Kaguya, and now Naruto and is still going strong. Not to mention he received half of Hagoromo's power.


----------



## Turrin (Oct 12, 2014)

Khris said:


> Wont happen bro.. You yourself said Jutsus don't count.. Pain is just that; a Jutsu..
> .


Asura path is kind of a grey area though, as we don't know if the modifications made are permanent. I don't think we've ever had a character with permanent modifications. My gut says it probably won't be counted, but I'm not sure.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Oct 12, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Asura path is kind of a grey area though, as we don't know if the modifications made are permanent. I don't think we've ever had a character with permanent modifications. My gut says it probably won't be counted, but I'm not sure.



I think Naruto's modes later in the series would be counted as well if that's the case.. While I am sure Naruto will get perfect 5's in pretty much every field, it's not going to be because of his infinitely intertwined chakra modes, but because of his base experiences and development.. Same with Sasuke's Susano'o.. 

I mean both Sasuke and Naruto in their base forms deserve 5's in all of the field.. 

Nagato gaining perfect 5's in everything expect Strength and Speed isn't too bad IMO.. Notice how I didn't mention Taijutsu, because he deserves a 5 in that field as well.. 

On a side note: I really don't think it's wise to ever compare stats.. The caps really ruin it..


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 12, 2014)

I don't think stats would mean anything @ this point. Shinobi on EMS Madara tier and above don't rely much on skill or base capabilities. Its either megazords or haxxed abilities.


----------



## tari101190 (Oct 12, 2014)

Stats represent knowledge & skill in an specific area, they're not power levels.

Ninjas are ranked by skill, not power.

The more skilled ninja are the most dangerous.


----------



## Trojan (Oct 12, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> I don't think stats would mean anything @ this point. Shinobi on EMS Madara tier and above don't rely much on skill or base capabilities. Its either megazords or haxxed abilities.



I disagree. U_U
stats will help us to know about the characters that did not get the chance to show their abilities, or where not in a situation where they needed said ability. 

It will also help us to compare between some characters. For example if A character got 4.5 in the Taijutsu, and B character got 5, we will know for sure that the second character is better, even if s/he does not have much feats, but at least we would know how Kishi think of it. U_U

Yeah, there are a lot of tards that will ignore anything against their favourite, but who cares...

+

in Madara's case, it's not only based on "base" but even his EMS/Rinnegan do count.


----------



## ch1p (Oct 12, 2014)

Hussain said:


> know. @>@
> kinda hard to think it's only 391 page. @>@



Databook 3 is around 350 pages.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 12, 2014)

Hussain said:


> I disagree. U_U
> stats will help us to know about the characters that did not get the chance to show their abilities, or where not in a situation where they needed said ability.
> 
> It will also help us to compare between some characters. For example if A character got 4.5 in the Taijutsu, and B character got 5, we will know for sure that the second character is better, even if s/he does not have much feats, but at least we would know how Kishi think of it. U_U
> ...



I didn't say we don't learn anything from stats.

I said they won't matter as much. And I specifically said Madara tier and above. 
I am pretty sure most shinobi on Madara tier and above will have 5's, or buffs that make base stats irrelevant.


----------



## Trojan (Oct 12, 2014)

OK, that makes sense.

Though you should worry more about your beloved itachi rather than madara. 
the truth is near.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 12, 2014)

Hussain said:


> OK, that makes sense.
> 
> Though you should worry more about your beloved itachi rather than madara.
> the truth is near.



Why ? If Kishimoto doesn't lower his stats in this new DB, he is already near perfect. And he has 5's in all the areas that matter the most.

I am expecting some additional Itachi wank tho, but I doubt he'll have a stat change.


----------



## Trojan (Oct 12, 2014)

yeah, I wasn't talking about the stats only, because Kishi will explain some of the panels as well as he goes. In addition, people always assume that anyone who fights itachi knows jackshit about the Genjutsu, so the other characters stats on that department may change several thing.

Not to mention the whole fanfictional itachi/edo itachi that has perfect stats and Invincible...  

but sadly I guess you're right about this


> I am expecting some additional Itachi wank tho


Kishi can't live without it. 
oh well...


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 12, 2014)

Hussain said:


> yeah, I wasn't talking about the stats only, because Kishi will explain some of the panels as well as he goes. In addition, people always assume that anyone who fights itachi knows jackshit about the Genjutsu, so the other characters stats on that department may change several thing.
> 
> Not to mention the whole fanfictional itachi/edo itachi that has perfect stats and Invincible...
> 
> ...



I don't think genjutsu stats of characters would change that much, considering Itachi was able to genjutsu rape Orochimaru and Kurenai who have 5's in that category. For example, if Onoki ends up with a tier 5 genjutsu, that doesn't mean he will be immune to genjutsu.

But I am content as long as Minato doesn't have 5's in stamina and genjutsu 

Itachi is bound to have a spot light in new DB. He used some new jutsu and he had a significant impact on the war and on Sasuke. Itachi wank is inevitable. You better prepare your body.


----------



## Eliyua23 (Oct 12, 2014)

Konan

Nin: 5

Gen: 4

Int: 5

Tai: 2.5

Spe: 3.5

Sta: 4

Str: 3

Sea: 5

Total: 32


----------



## Turrin (Oct 12, 2014)

With you guys talking about that i'm thinking about what the biggest trolls that could come out of the DB could be:


Prime-Hiruzen is stated to be the Strongest Hokage
All the Kages... getting higher stats than Itachi/Jiriaya
Sakura getting a perfect 40 
Kushina getting higher stats than Minato
Konan's paper ocean doesn't require prep
All the Rookies have stats in the mid 30s
Shodai-Kages are Hashirama tier
etc...

Those are the ones that come to mind as the funniest possibilities.


----------



## The Undying (Oct 12, 2014)

Kyuubi Naruto said:


> Depends on the shinobi really. I've just went ahead and changed Sasuke's to a 5 but I was really debating upon it. A 5 for Sasuke wouldn't be the same as a 5 for Naruto or even a 5 for Kisame since each chart isn't based on a general scale but rather each shinobi's own personal potential.
> 
> With that said, Sasuke's either going to be a 4.5 or a 5. Maybe a 5 now since this might be as "great" as his chakra can go with his potential level, who knows.




If the charts were based on a character's potential, a lot of statements in Rin no Sho wouldn't make any sense. For example, the first databook wouldn't implicitly encourage fans to total the stats to get an approximation of their "true ability", nor would they have situational footnotes under them that mention transformations and normal states. Guy/Lee wouldn't have  diminished stats in Ninjutsu and Genjutsu, Sasuke wouldn't have a 5 in Ninjutsu since we've seen him improve there since DB3, and the notion of Hiruzen having a lot of room to grow in categories clearly affected by his old age would be self-contradictory.

They're definitely based on a general scale, the problem is that most people don't know how to interpret that scale and commonly confuse raw power with proficiency. Instead of actually reading the statgram descriptions they pitch hissyfits about how it's wrong, bullshit, etc.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 12, 2014)

Turrin said:


> With you guys talking about that i'm thinking about what the biggest trolls that could come out of the DB could be:
> 
> 
> Prime-Hiruzen is stated to be the Strongest Hokage
> ...



I'd really LOL if Kishimoto takes another attempt @ that prime Hiruzen shit. I think like every bad concept, he should just let go. Past is the past.

As weird as it is, some kages having more stats than Itachi & Jiraiya doesn't seem that unplausible to me. Because as much as I find stat totals meaningless, they highlight a standart. And in shounen manga the standart has to be rised for the newly introduced characters to look  impressive. If Edo kage have like totals around 34 - 35(which I believe they deserve), then they'll come out as weak even though that stat total is pretty decent. 

Sakura isn't getting anything near 40. But characters like Hashirama and Madara could.

Rookies also may have high 20's(28-29), just to highlight that they are war veterans and capable jounin level now. Anything above 30 would be a stretch given thats what Hebi Sasuke had, and he is still alot more talented and alot stronger than Rookies.


----------



## Vice (Oct 12, 2014)

I hope Kishi retcons the entire system. Guys like Madara and Hashirama and anyone that level and above just completely break the 5-point ranking.


----------



## Turrin (Oct 12, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> I'd really LOL if Kishimoto takes another attempt @ that prime Hiruzen shit. I think like every bad concept, he should just let go. Past is the past.


But it would be so funny. Senju-Clan's head would explode



> As weird as it is, some kages having more stats than Itachi & Jiraiya doesn't seem that unplausible to me. Because as much as I find stat totals meaningless, they highlight a standart. And in shounen manga the standart has to be rised for the newly introduced characters to look  impressive. If Edo kage have like totals around 34 - 35(which I believe they deserve), then they'll come out as weak even though that stat total is pretty decent.


If they got between 34-35 I consider them exactly as impressive as I consider them now; stronger than the weakest Kages, but weaker than the strongest; basically the same way I view the Sannin, Itachi, and Sasori. I would be really shocked if any of them got above a 35.5, because even though the stat totals aren't the end all be all for ranking, it's very obvious why the Sannin and Itachi got the highest stat totals in DBIII, being the best guys around at that time, and if all the Kages like Mei and shit go over that, than it would basically be like Kishi saying that old standard is meaningless, and not just for monsters like Hashirama and Madara, but for a-lot of shinobi, and I don't see him doing that.

Onoki and Sandaime-Raikage are really the only ones I see having a strong chance of even getting a 35.5.

However it would be hilarious to see Mei get a 36-37



> Rookies also may have high 20's(28-29), just to highlight that they are war veterans and capable jounin level now. Anything above 30 would be a stretch given thats what Hebi Sasuke had, and he is still alot more talented and alot stronger than Rookies.


I actually legit think we'll see some rookies break into the low 30s. Like Neji, Kankuro, and Temari.



Vice said:


> I hope Kishi retcons the entire system. Guys like Madara and Hashirama and anyone that level and above just completely break the 5-point ranking.


I've said this before, but if there are any changes to the stat chart I think it will be that we'll see certain characters with stats going off the chart. For example Itachi's Genjutsu stat may be updated to go off the charts. Shikkamaru and Kakashi's intelligence stats might also be updated to go off the charts. Naruto's, Kisame's, etc... statmina may also go off the charts. And so on.


----------



## Trojan (Oct 12, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> I don't think genjutsu stats of characters would change that much, considering Itachi was able to genjutsu rape Orochimaru and Kurenai who have 5's in that category. For example, if Onoki ends up with a tier 5 genjutsu, that doesn't mean he will be immune to genjutsu.
> 
> But I am content as long as Minato doesn't have 5's in stamina and genjutsu
> 
> Itachi is bound to have a spot light in new DB. He used some new jutsu and he had a significant impact on the war and on Sasuke. Itachi wank is inevitable. You better prepare your body.



- I think that will differ depends on how important/strong the character is. Kuranai has only 1 battle in the entire manga, and she is extremely irrelevant, so people won't look(?) into it too much, unlike when the character is relevant and is/was shown to be really strong. In addition to that, Kurnai did actually break out of itachi's genjutsu and dodged his attack with the Kunai.

- I think he should get 5 in the stamina honestly, but well see. 
at the end of the day he IS the one I've been waiting to see his states for several years now! 

- I don't even think preparing myself would help with anything. 
I'm sure the amount of wank will exceed all of my expectations and preparation.


----------



## Trojan (Oct 12, 2014)

Turrin said:


> With you guys talking about that i'm thinking about what the biggest trolls that could come out of the DB could be:
> 
> 
> Prime-Hiruzen is stated to be the Strongest Hokage
> ...



- Well never happen as the child IS going to be the Hokage, and the strongest one. 
- imo the edo kages are stronger than people like itachi/Tobirama, but I doubt that they'd get
higher than 35.5. In addition, that base Jiraiya's stats to begin with.

- the first kages are weaker than the next generations. Actually, in the manga, the 3rd generation has always been stated to be the strongest, really. 

like with Hiruzen, 3rd Raikage, 3rd Kazekage.


----------



## Kanki (Oct 12, 2014)

Is there actually going to be a new one?


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Oct 12, 2014)

Khris said:


> "Speed" is a broad term when it comes to stuff like this.. I doubt it's _just _reaction time.. Movement is also a huge factor.. See Sasuke vs. Lee in the chunin exam arc..
> 
> Nagato's Rinnegan is the same as Kakashi's Sharingan.. It'll shave the physical stats like with Kakashi..



Did you see the databook statistics criteria? If you did you'd see reaction time and movement speed are what are measured with the "speed" statistic. 

Nagato outpaced his Shinra Tensei, while crippled; he dodged V2 Bee's attack, while crippled... his movement speed is among the impressive ones in the manga. His reaction time/reflexes were also shown to be among the best.

To give you perspective, someone like Itachi who had no particularly impressive movement speed but had impressive reflexes scored a 5 in speed. 

If you can show me that bloodlines "shave [...] stats" of any sort, then I'll believe you. Otherwise bloodlines do count; it is what gives Kakashi his reflex aspect of his speed. It is what gives Itachi his Genjutsu and Ninjutsu as well as his "speed". In fact the darn databook said Sasuke's databook scores would improve simply because he obtained the Mangekyou.

If anything there is a weight of evidence to suggest that bloodlines _add_ to the statistics, they do not diminish them. In Nagato, Madara, Sasuke's cases their bloodline (Rinnegan) so happens to give them a physical boost via Demon Realm.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 12, 2014)

Vice said:


> I hope Kishi retcons the entire system. Guys like Madara and Hashirama and anyone that level and above just completely break the 5-point ranking.



I don't think he needs a completely new stat system. The stat system isn't a perfect representation of power level. It has more to do with skill/proficiency/knowledge than power. 

But I wouldn't mind an additional, different color chart outside the original one, which reprsents buffs, that allows physical stats(stamina, strength, speed) to extend above the 5 point sytem. Because in case of guys like V2 Raikage and above, 5 point speed system don't mean anything. Same goes for strength for certain characters. Those stats are the ones where the real gaps come into the picture.


----------



## The Faceless Man (Oct 12, 2014)

I can bet my life that this Databook is going to be stupid as fuck 
Not like Kishi gives a fuck about Databooks


----------



## Trojan (Oct 12, 2014)

If he does not give a darn about the Databook, why would he make them?


----------



## The Faceless Man (Oct 12, 2014)

Hussain said:


> If he does not give a darn about the Databook, why would he make them?


 
Because he ends the manga. Cmon the dude ignored the databook in the manga... he was like fuck that shit.


----------



## MS81 (Oct 12, 2014)

I just hope Kishi makes the databook from the ground up, because he is going to redo certain jutsu's like Kagebushin and FTG.

If I wasn't mistaking in all 3 databooks Kagebushin was created the Hashirama? and Hiraishin was created by Minato?


----------



## Trojan (Oct 12, 2014)

I disagree. 

the Databbok covers certain amount of the chapters, and it's based on those specific chapters. Yeah, as the chapters go on, the Databook seem wrong, but so does the manga. It's contradict itself. Thus, since the manga will actually end, and this Databook is going to be the last one, we won't receive any information later on that makes the previous ones wrong. 

The Databook is not different than the manga in that regard. People may say the Databook exaggerates the jutsus, and the characters. Example that they may give for jutsus is Itachi's Susanoo, and its items, but that same thing was stated in the manga by Zetsu. And an example for characters, is calling Hiruzen the strongest Hokage Konoha has ever had, but even this statement was stated in the manga. 

Therefore, the same things apply to both the manga and the Databook. Now, it's actually Kishi's biggest chance to either correct some previous things he mentioned, or cover things he couldn't/didn't in the manga. The Databook helped us to know Kakuzu, Hidan, Karin's stories in addition to several other characters that Kishi was not able to show them to us in the manga. 

It also explains some panels that the fans may differ in their explanation to them. For example, itachi fans think Sasuke couldn't do anything at all in their battle and all of his achievement are in fact itachi's doing, but in the Databook it explains that it was Sasuke who actually freed himself from itachi's genjutsu for example.  Or Minato's fans think that Kakashi's statement about Naruto being the only one who can surpass Minato is about power and all those things, but the Databook explains that it was meant to be taken as surpassing him in the Rassengan, and making it into FRS. 

and there are a lot of examples of those. In addition to the jutsus abilities and effectiveness that the Databook explain everything about them. If you post in the battledome section you would have known how important some of those information may be. 

People were/and still deny even basic things like having a contract with 1 frog makes you able to summon ANY frog, and some of them only changed his mind because it was actually mentioned in the Databook in Kishi's interview...etc


----------



## Shattering (Oct 12, 2014)

Databooks have the same relevance as videogames and anime, don't know whats your desire about them, filler material not made by the author to get more money.


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Oct 12, 2014)

This databook will once again show that the Rinnegan is the strongest eye.


----------



## Jagger (Oct 12, 2014)

Watch how Kishi writes that Kakashi's stamina is still 3.


----------



## Klue (Oct 12, 2014)

Hussain said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



A reasonable post authored by Hussain?


Duh Fuck? 


Now I have seen everything.


----------



## Trojan (Oct 12, 2014)

Go away klue, you have no clue what you are talking about.


----------



## Hasan (Oct 12, 2014)

Hussain said:


> Or Minato's fans think that Kakashi's statement about Naruto being the only one who can surpass Minato is about power and all those things, but the Databook explains that it was meant to be taken as surpassing him in the Rassengan, and making it into FRS.



This part is pretty evident even in the manga, if you read all of the speech bubbles and not just the _"... only you can surpass Yondaime"_ part.

That said, it does translate to Naruto being more talented than Minato.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Oct 12, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Did you see the databook statistics criteria? If you did you'd see reaction time and movement speed are what are measured with the "speed" statistic.
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



Did you read what I posted? 

I said it was movement speed AND reaction time 

Also, when did crippled Nagato outpace V2 Bee? As far as I remember Bee actually connected his attack which led to Nagato absorbing his chakra.. Been a while tho, so I am not entirely sure of the fight..


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Oct 12, 2014)

Khris said:


> Also, when did crippled Nagato outpace V2 Bee? As far as I remember Bee actually connected his attack which led to Nagato absorbing his chakra.. Been a while tho, so I am not entirely sure of the fight..



Tell me when I said he outpaced Bee; I said he outpaced his ST. How? Literally after his ST hit, he was behind Bee. 

Bee tried to hit Nagato _before_ attempting the lariat. The reason the first hit didn't connect was because Nagato actually dodged it. So it took pretty insane speed for Nagato, in his state, to get behind Bee and dodge Bee's initial attack. So a high speed stat for Nagato is justified. 

As for strength: Demon Realm, as well as the fact that he was able to effortlessly hold up Killer B before he binded him with Demon Realm powers.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Oct 13, 2014)

I read the chapter again (it was 550)..


*Spoiler*: _Scan in Question_ 









You're right, but there's a lot of contradiction going on.. I mean for a guy that could barely walk and said himself that he couldn't.. I know it's a stretch but maybe he was using Shinra Tensie/Bashou Tenin.. He *was *floating in the air in the majority of those panels.. If it's a Jutsu thing, then it wouldn't count either..

Also, Asura's bit was after he absorbed the Bijuu's chakra..


----------



## Trojan (Oct 13, 2014)

Hasan said:


> This part is pretty evident even in the manga, if you read all of the speech bubbles and not just the _"... only you can surpass Yondaime"_ part.
> 
> That said, it does translate to Naruto being more talented than Minato.



possible, even though the child did not inherit his father full potential though. U_U


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 13, 2014)

Khris said:


> I read the chapter again (it was 550)..
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: _Scan in Question_
> ...



I always thought the chamelon carried him or tossed him. Or he used asura's boosters to propell himself. The thing is, Kishimoto went all the trouble of emphasing his immobility, and then Nagato moves a great deal of distance. To me, it is one of those "let this one slide" moments. So it isn't important or an impressive feat at all.

Pain/Nagato may end up having 5 in speed. But it won't be because of that.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Oct 13, 2014)

Or we can just chalk it up as "shitty writing"... 

Seriously.. 

Chapter 549: Nagato: I can't move
Chapter 550: Moves very well
Chapter 551: Kabuto: Nagato can't move


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 13, 2014)

Khris said:


> Or we can just chalk it up as "shitty writing"...
> 
> Seriously..
> 
> ...



Yeah pretty much. It is a minor thing imo, considering the downhill writing during and after the war arc and majority of the inconsistincies and "lol plot" moments that piled up.

Edit : Also the funny thing is, most people claimed that Nagato got hit by Itachi twice because he was immobile. But they have no problem of admitting that he is fast enough to speed blitz Kirabi. Consistency much ?


----------



## Vice (Oct 13, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Edit : Also the funny thing is, most people claimed that Nagato got hit by Itachi twice because he was immobile.



Because that's exactly what the manga told us.


----------



## Chaelius (Oct 13, 2014)

Hussain said:


> If he does not give a darn about the Databook, why would he make them?



Kishimoto doesn't make the databooks, he's a mangaka working on a weekly schedule you think he has time to write a 300 page side book? Kishimoto just gives some notes and interviews, the actual books are done by someone else, if I recall correctly it's a group called Caramel Mama that does the databooks, they also did the DB databooks(Actually I think they do all of WSJ's databooks).


----------



## tari101190 (Oct 13, 2014)

Hashirama Stat Total = 37+
Tobirama Stat Total = 36+
Minato Stat Total = 34+
Danzou Stat Total = 34+
Kage Stat Total = 33+
Kage Bodyguard Stat Total = 25+
Jinchuuriki's Stat Total = 33+
Killer Bee Stat Total = 34+
Kabuto Stat total = 34+
Nagato Stat Total = 36+
Konan Stat Total = 33+
Zetsu Stat Total = 30+
Edo Tensei's Stat Totals = 30+
Obito Stat Total = 36+
Madara Stat Total = 37+


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Oct 13, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Yeah pretty much. It is a minor thing imo, considering the downhill writing during and after the war arc and majority of the inconsistincies and "lol plot" moments that piled up.
> 
> Edit : Also the funny thing is, most people claimed that Nagato got hit by Itachi twice because he was immobile. But they have no problem of admitting that he is fast enough to speed blitz Kirabi. Consistency much ?



Oh God Kishi


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Oct 13, 2014)

Khris said:


> I read the chapter again (it was 550)..
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: _Scan in Question_
> ...



He could have floated, but then there is the fact he still dodged V2 Bee's attack in that same page. Much later he managed to Shunshin towards Naruto before Naruto, the sensor, could react. Also his reflex feats with Pain would count.

Bijuu chakra is still chakra; Nagato's jutsu just reverts chakra back to physical and mental energy when he absorbs it. So the Asura bit was Nagato's power... he still held up Killer B effortlessly. 
Now considering DB3 said Sasuke's scores would improve with the MS automatically says that bloodlines are included in stats. So... 



Grimmjowsensei said:


> I always thought the chamelon carried him or tossed him. Or he used asura's boosters to propell himself.



What about him dodging Bee's initial attack?


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Oct 13, 2014)

@Munboy, no I mean he showed strength feats *AFTER *regaining his healthy body..


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Oct 13, 2014)

Khris said:


> @Munboy, no I mean he showed strength feats *AFTER *regaining his healthy body..



Which would be factored into the stats.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 13, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> What about him dodging Bee's initial attack?



Which attack bruv ?



Vice said:


> Because that's exactly what the manga told us.



You gotta tell that to those who think Nagato can speedblitz Kirabi.


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Oct 13, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Which attack bruv ?



Look at the page bruv.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 13, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Look at the page bruv.



I did bruv. B lariats Nagato and he buckles like a sack of shit.


----------



## Nikushimi (Oct 13, 2014)

These are some of my current predictions:


*A*

Ninjutsu: 3.5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 2.5
Intelligence: 3
Power: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 3.5

*Oonoki*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 2.5
Genjutsu: 2.5
Intelligence: 4.5
Power: 1.5
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 2.5
Seals: 5

*Mei*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3.5
Genjutsu: 2.5
Intelligence: 3.5
Power: 3
Speed: 3.5
Stamina: 3.5
Seals: 5

*3rd Raikage*

Ninjutsu: 4.5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 2.5
Intelligence: 3.5
Power: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 4.5

*Muu*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3
Genjutsu: 2.5
Intelligence: 4.5
Power: 3.5
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 3.5
Seals: 5

*2nd Mizukage*

Ninjutsu: 4.5
Taijutsu: 2.5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 4
Power: 3.5
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 3.5
Seals: 4.5

*4th Kazekage*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 2.5
Genjutsu: 2.5
Intelligence: 4.5
Power: 3
Speed: 3.5
Stamina: 4
Seals: 5

*Hashirama*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 4.5
Intelligence: 4
Power: 3.5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 4.5

*Madara*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Power: 3.5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 4
Seals: 5

*Nagato*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Power: 3.5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5

*Konan*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3.5
Genjutsu: 2.5
Intelligence: 5
Power: 3
Speed: 3.5
Stamina: 3.5
Seals: 5

*Kabuto*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Power: 3.5 (would be a 5 in Sage Mode)
Speed: 4 (would be a 5 in Sage Mode)
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5

*Danzo*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 3.5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Power: 3.5
Speed: 4
Stamina: 4
Seals: 5

*Hanzo*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 2.5
Intelligence: 4.5
Power: 3.5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 3.5
Seals: 5

*Kinkaku/Ginkaku*

Ninjutsu: 3.5
Taijutsu: 3.5
Genjutsu: 2
Intelligence: 3.5
Power: 3.5
Speed: 4
Stamina: 5
Seals: 3

*Darui*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 2.5
Intelligence: 3.5
Power: 3.5
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 3.5
Seals: 3.5

*Tobirama*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3.5
Intelligence: 5
Power: 3.5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5

*Izuna*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Power: 3.5
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 3.5
Seals: 3.5

*Shisui*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Power: 3.5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 3.5
Seals: 5

*Minato*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 3.5
Intelligence: 4.5
Power: 3.5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 3.5
Seals: 5

*Kushina*

Ninjutsu: 3.5
Taijutsu: 3.5
Genjutsu: 2.5
Intelligence: 3.5
Power: 3.5
Speed: 3.5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5

*Killer B*

Ninjutsu: 3.5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 1.5
Intelligence: 2.5
Power: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 3.5


----------



## Trojan (Oct 13, 2014)

^

Those are bad even for you. 
but, couldn't you just include the total! -_____-


----------



## The Undying (Oct 13, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> *Nagato*
> 
> Ninjutsu: 5
> Taijutsu: 5
> ...




Made me laugh. I like how Nagato is suddenly a speedster with top mastery at Genjutsu now.



Khris said:


> I read the chapter again (it was 550)..
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: _Scan in Question_
> ...




Honestly, it looks more like Bee was just grabbing the ground to gain a foothold from being knocked back instead of actually attacking Nagato in that panel. He even proceeds to blitz him in the next page. I refuse to believe a character with canonically stifled movements has a 5 in speed.


----------



## GearsUp (Oct 13, 2014)

Tenten

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Power: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Seals: 5


----------



## Nikushimi (Oct 13, 2014)

Hussain said:


> ^
> 
> Those are bad even for you.



Say what you want, but we will see what Kishi says.



> but, couldn't you just include the total! -_____-



The total doesn't mean anything. The stats are separated into different categories for a reason: they all mean something completely different about a shinobi's skill.



The Undying said:


> Made me laugh. I like how Nagato is suddenly a speedster with top mastery at Genjutsu now.



He was fast enough to react to and catch both Killer B and KCM Naruto. Even if he's a cripple, he still had reaction time on par with tier 5 speedsters and would likely have that level of movement speed if not for...well, you know. If we extend his qualifications to the Pain Rikudou (which we should), then hell yes he is tier 5 material; he has plenty of reaction and speed feats through them to make my prediction plausible.

As for Genjutsu, it's just an assumption on my part. Hiruzen also had a 5, despite not showing a single Genjutsu ever; I sort of lump Nagato into the same "He's just good at everything" category.

Not saying I can't be dead wrong, but this is only a prediction thread--not a "We already have the facts and I can prove this" kind of thread. Those threads will come after we get this databook.


----------



## Trojan (Oct 13, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> Say what you want, but we will see what Kishi says.
> 
> 
> 
> The total doesn't mean anything. The stats are separated into different categories for a reason: they all mean something completely different about a shinobi's skill.



- I hope you don't get your hopes up so much though, because they are really terrible. 
- I know, but still, better than making me count them lol.


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## Klue (Oct 13, 2014)

Hussain said:


> - I hope you don't get your hopes up so much though, because they are really terrible.
> - I know, but still, better than making me count them lol.



Terrible?

You speak as if there exist some formula for character stat calculation. 

It's a shot in the dark.


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## Trojan (Oct 13, 2014)

Klue said:


> Terrible?
> 
> You speak as if there exist some formula for character stat calculation.
> 
> It's a shot in the dark.



does not make them any less terrible. @>@
and there are some stuff should be obvious, but he fucked up with them. @>@


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## The Undying (Oct 13, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> He was fast enough to react to and catch both Killer B and KCM Naruto.




KCM Naruto wasn't caught by Nagato, he was caught by the camouflaged summon that was behind him before he could even land. Bee was already within the Rinnegan's shared field of vision between Nagato's summons before he could come close to landing an attack. The panels make both of these things pretty damn clear.

I don't know about you, but for me that doesn't exactly scream "top tier reaction feats". It's a good strategical showing though.



> As for Genjutsu, it's just an assumption on my part. Hiruzen also had a 5, despite not showing a single Genjutsu ever; I sort of lump Nagato into the same "He's just good at everything" category.
> 
> Not saying I can't be dead wrong, but this is only a prediction thread--not a "We already have the facts and I can prove this" kind of thread. Those threads will come after we get this databook.




Fair enough. I just don't think it's especially accurate to give Hashirama, who has shown some fairly effective Genjutsu skills, a lower score in that category than Nagato, who hasn't actually shown anything special at all.


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## Vice (Oct 13, 2014)

Does shunshin require leg mobility? If we can consider Nagato's speed against Bee and Naruto to be due to his shunshin ability, then that would explain that.


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## Dr. White (Oct 13, 2014)

Nagato caught KCM Naruto and Bee what are you talking about?


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Oct 14, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Which would be factored into the stats.



How? At the time of his death he was weak and frail.. It's like saying Kakashi and Itachi should get 5 in Stamina cuz they could rejuvenate through some Jutsu. 

Which Kakashi did btw..


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 14, 2014)

Vice said:


> Does shunshin require leg mobility? If we can consider Nagato's speed against Bee and Naruto to be due to his shunshin ability, then that would explain that.



As far as I know, shunshin is just using certain amount of chakra to augment your running speed. So leg mobility should be required.



> Body Flicker Technique (瞬身の術, Shunshin no Jutsu)
> Ninjutsu, D-rank, Supplementary
> Users: Gaara, Hatake Kakashi, et al
> 
> ...



It mentions "movement."


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## Nikushimi (Oct 14, 2014)

The Undying said:


> KCM Naruto wasn't caught by Nagato, he was caught by the camouflaged summon that was behind him before he could even land.



Fair point. But Nagato at least got up to him and proceeded to soul-rip before Naruto could counter with even a chakra limb or anything. And when Naruto did shoot out a chakra limb with Rasengan, Nagato reacted and absorbed it (although I guess the feat is pretty dubious since Kabuto was in control).



> Bee was already within the Rinnegan's shared field of vision between Nagato's summons before he could come close to landing an attack. The panels make both of these things pretty damn clear.



All shared vision means is that Nagato could see B. Characters tend to react to attacks they see coming--that's not unusual.



> I don't know about you, but for me that doesn't exactly scream "top tier reaction feats". It's a good strategical showing though.



Other than Nagato, we have Pain's feats to go by--and Nagato was controlling Pain.



> Fair enough. I just don't think it's especially accurate to give Hashirama, who has shown some fairly effective Genjutsu skills, a lower score in that category than Nagato, who hasn't actually shown anything special at all.



I'm kind of torn on giving Hashirama a perfect score because "lolBringerofDarkness" and Ashura reincarnations being the ones who aren't especially good at Genjutsu or chakra efficiency (there's like an unwritten rule).

But maybe he is a 5. Idk.

Come to think of it, I don't think anybody's pointed out how potentially broken a Sage-powered Bringer of Darkness could be.



Dr. White said:


> Nagato caught KCM Naruto and Bee what are you talking about?



He grabbed B and soul-ripped Naruto (granted, Naruto was restrained, but...Nagato closed in before he could do anything).



Hussain said:


> - I hope you don't get your hopes up so much though, because they are really terrible.



They're as likely as anyone else's until Kishi actually tells us what the numbers are.



> - I know, but still, better than making me count them lol.



You shouldn't have to count them; I already provided all the numbers.


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Oct 14, 2014)

Shunshin is D-ranked? God I hope Shisui has another S-ranked version or him mastering that jutsu is just isn't impressive at all...


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## Invictus-Kun (Oct 14, 2014)

Kaguya will be top tier imo, with of course BZ still sticking to her arm.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 14, 2014)

Khris said:


> Shunshin is D-ranked? God I hope Shisui has another S-ranked version or him mastering that jutsu is just isn't impressive at all...



Shunshin is one of the most basic moves. It all comes down to your reaction speed and chakra control(amount in some cases). Thats what seperates shinobi from each other.



Invictus-Kun said:


> Kaguya will be top tier imo, with of course BZ still sticking to her arm.



I don't think Kaguya will have any stats.


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## Overhaul (Oct 14, 2014)

*sigh*So many hearts for Kishi to break with one book.


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## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Oct 14, 2014)

Minato:
Ninjutsu - 5
Taijutsu - 5
Genjutsu - 4
Strength - 4
Speed - 5
Stamina - 5
Intelligence - 5
Hand Signs - 5
Total - 38


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## StickaStick (Oct 14, 2014)

*Sakura*:

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 5
Speed: 4
Stamina: 5
Hand Seals: 5
Total: 39

Wouldn't surprise me if her speed was higher, too, as I would consider 4 a conservative estimate.


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## Turrin (Oct 14, 2014)

Some of my thoughts. The way i'll approach this is by thinking of the totals I believe a shinobi should get and than working backwards from there; which is what I think Kishi does a-lot of the times

Danzo:

Nin - 5
Tai - 3.5
Gen - 5
Seals - 5
Intel - 5
Speed - 4.5
Stamina - 3.5
Strength - 3
Total - 35

I could see his Taijutsu, Strength, &/or Stamina being higher tho, but I assume he'll at least get around a 35, and I wanted to be conservative with it.

Mei:
Nin - 5
Tai - 3.5
Seals - 5
Intel - 4.5
Stamina - 3.5
Speed - 3.5
Str - 3.5
Gen - 4
Total - 32.5

I could see Spd, Gen, Intel, or stam being a bit higher, but I assume she'll at least get around a 32.5, and again I wanted to be conservative. 

Ei
Tai - 5
Spd - 5
Str - 5
Stamina - 5
Nin - 4.5
Intel - 3.5
Gen - 2.5
Seals - 2.5
Total - 33

I could see Nin rise to a 5, and Gen or Seals fall lower, so i'll just go with that

Onoki
Nin - 5
Seals - 5
Intel - 5
Stamina - 3.5
Speed - 4.5
Str - 3
Tai - 5
Gen - 3.5
Total - 34.5

Gen and Tai are the hardest stats to predict. I can't see him getting bellow a 34.5, so I have to assume Kishi will make one of them a 5, but the question is which one. Typically I'd lean towards Gen, but i'm think Tai might be the more likely candidate for random 5, given Onoki's usage of rock-fist a CQC. Onoki could be higher and I kind of expect him to be, but besides maybe a bump to a 4 in stamina i'm not sure where he'd get the other bumps from unless he also has a random 5 in Gen. So for now i'll stick with this conservative estimate.

Minato
Nin - 5
Seals - 5
Speed - 5
Tai - 5
Intel - 5
Str - 3.5
Stamina - 4
Gen - 3
Total - 35.5

I think Minato may get a higher total than this, but unless there is an inexplicably high Strength or Genjutsu stat, I don't see how he'd get much higher. Sta moving to 4.5 or maybe Gen going to 3.5, are more likely. But again I'll stay conservative.

That's all I'll do for now


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## egressmadara (Oct 14, 2014)

Can't wait to see Kaguya's intellect rankingz


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 14, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Minato
> Nin - 5
> Seals - 5
> Speed - 5
> ...



Or you may just lower his int score and amp his gen and stamina or str a bit. 

I don't see him getting a 5 on int TBH, he doesn't have any remarkable feats or shown great knowledge. And he came off as goofy @ times. I can see him getting 4 @ most. Even Jiraiya has 4.5, and Jiraiya seemed like a wiser and more intelligent dude than Minato.



egressmadara said:


> Can't wait to see Kaguya's intellect rankingz



They have to invent a scale 10 chart for her. Her int being -10


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## takL (Oct 14, 2014)

Invictus-Kun said:


> Kaguya will be top tier imo


for sure


egressmadara said:


> Can't wait to see Kaguya's intellect rankingz



0 id say. imbecile level.


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## Di Maria (Oct 14, 2014)

StickaStick said:


> *Sakura*:
> 
> Ninjutsu: 5
> Taijutsu: 5
> ...



You need a award for giving me a good laugh...

OT:

*Sasuke*

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4.5
Genjutsu: 5
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 4
Speed: 5
Stamina: 4.5
Hand Seals: 5

*Total: 37.5*

*Naruto:*

Ninjutsu: 4
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 4
Strength: 5
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 5
Hand Seals: 4

*Total: 34.5*

*Sakura:*

Ninjutsu: 3
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 3
Intelligence: 4.5
Strength: 4.5
Speed: 3
Stamina: 3
Hand Seals: 4.5

*Total: 30.5*

*Kakashi:*

Ninjutsu: 3.5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 3.5
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3.5
Speed: 4
Stamina: 4
Hand Seals: 5

*Total: 32.5*

Even though Kishi will write the stats based on their base forms without any enhancement, my predications are based on the latest manga events,


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## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Oct 14, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Some of my thoughts. The way i'll approach this is by thinking of the totals I believe a shinobi should get and than working backwards from there; which is what I think Kishi does a-lot of the times
> 
> Minato
> Nin - 5
> ...


stamina for minato is definitely a 5. Fukasaku in order to use senjutsu, you must have "enormous chakra". 



Grimmjowsensei said:


> Or you may just lower his int score and amp his gen and stamina or str a bit.
> 
> I don't see him getting a 5 on int TBH, he doesn't have any remarkable feats or shown great knowledge. And he came off as goofy @ times. I can see him getting 4 @ most. Even Jiraiya has 4.5, and Jiraiya seemed like a wiser and more intelligent dude than Minato.


I'm afraid you're very mistaken, lemme jog your memory.

- Minato was praised as a genius by both Tsunade and Jiraya.
- Jiraya called him a once in a decade genius
- Only geniuses can create jutsu from scratch, he achieved the highest level of chakra manipulation

If you need feats well then here:
- he saw Kakashi's chidori for the first time and immediately labelled it an incomplete jutsu and had already analysed both it's strengths and weaknesses after seeing it for a brief moment.

- he analysed Obitos kamui and not only discovered his weakness, but how to counter it as well. And it only took him a minute. It took Kakashi, Naruto, Gai and Bee several chapters to even land one hit on Obito, before they could properly figure out his jutsu.

-when Tobirama was unsure what to do on how to save the alliance from Obitos 4 beast bombs, he was asking minato what to do. Minatos plan was to warp the tree outside the barrier, however Obito didn't allow it.

- finally, one of his best feats. He analysed the strength and weaknesses of Madara's truth seeking balls. Determined it's maximum range before Madara loses control over them. Then he took a group of ninja (Kakashi, Lee and Gaara) of which he barely knew, and devised a strategy on how to support guy by removing his primary offence and by breaking down his defence. He lead that team superbly, when none of them, not even Kakashi had a clue what to do.

Minatos a genius, and I guarantee you he'll get a 5 in intelligence in the next databook. Just because you act goofy sometimes doesn't mean you lack any bit of intelligence, that's just a personality issue.


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## Trojan (Oct 14, 2014)

RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki said:


> stamina for minato is definitely a 5. Fukasaku in order to use senjutsu, you must have "enormous chakra".
> 
> 
> I'm afraid you're very mistaken, lemme jog your memory.
> ...



He already know all of that, but it's all has to do with itachi Vs Minato things. 
When itachi's feats are not even close, as shown to be a failure with everything, laterally. 



> - he analysed Obitos kamui and not only discovered his weakness, but how to counter it as well. And it only took him a minute. It took Kakashi, Naruto, Gai and Bee several chapters to even land one hit on Obito, before they could properly figure out his jutsu.


and Itachi couldn't accomplish anything when he was spying on them for 10 years, and Obito was teaching him all sort of things.


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## MS81 (Oct 14, 2014)

Di Maria said:


> You need a award for giving me a good laugh...
> 
> OT:
> 
> ...



and you need an award for giving Kakashi a 3.5 in Nin when he's easily a 5!!! everything from Kakashi gets bumped 0.5 during this war!!!


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## Trojan (Oct 14, 2014)

MS81 said:


> and you need an award for giving Kakashi a 3.5 in Nin when he's easily a 5!!! everything from Kakashi gets bumped 0.5 during this war!!!



but he lost his sharingan, shouldn't that effect him?


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## Turrin (Oct 14, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Or you may just lower his int score and amp his gen and stamina or str a bit.
> 
> I don't see him getting a 5 on int TBH, he doesn't have any remarkable feats or shown great knowledge. And he came off as goofy @ times. I can see him getting 4 @ most. Even Jiraiya has 4.5, and Jiraiya seemed like a wiser and more intelligent dude than Minato.


I don't think goofiness has anything to do with intelligence. Hiruzen was being KO'd by Sexy no Jutsu. Jiriaya acts like a goofball, and actually so does Kakashi at times. The fact of the matter is Minato was called a once in a decade genius, he invented many jutsu, planned many things, and was able to quickly figure out Obito's abilities. Also intelligence has to do with knowledge, which I'd expect Minato to have a great deal of as well. I'd very shocked if Minato didn't get a 5 in Intelligence. 

His Gen, Sta, and Str could possible be higher, but than again I wouldn't be surprised if Minato got over a 35.5 stat total, and I was trying to be conservative.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 14, 2014)

RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki said:


> I'm afraid you're very mistaken, lemme jog your memory.
> 
> - Minato was praised as a genius by both Tsunade and Jiraya.
> - Jiraya called him a once in a decade genius
> ...




Sasuke is also a genius, who doesn't have tier 5 intelligence. Talent doesn't equal to intelligence.

Frankly, I don't expect Minato to have tier 5 intelligence, but I wouldn't be that surprised either if he had it, simply because of his GOAT hype. But there is absolutely no way to justify that based on his display.



Turrin said:


> I don't think goofiness has anything to do with intelligence. Hiruzen was being KO'd by Sexy no Jutsu. Jiriaya acts like a goofball, and actually so does Kakashi at times. The fact of the matter is Minato was called a once in a decade genius, he invented many jutsu, planned many things, and was able to quickly figure out Obito's abilities. Also intelligence has to do with knowledge, which I'd expect Minato to have a great deal of as well. I'd very shocked if Minato didn't get a 5 in Intelligence.
> 
> His Gen, Sta, and Str could possible be higher, but than again I wouldn't be surprised if Minato got over a 35.5 stat total, and I was trying to be conservative.



Like I said above, talent = / = intelligence, knowledge or wisdom. 

Minato is very talented, but he has no showings that depict him above average on the categories I mentioned. 

I am 100% sure Minato'll have above 35.5 stat total. 

His stamina range is 3.5 - 4.5, more likely to be 4-4.5
Str range is 3.5 - 4.


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## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Oct 15, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Sasuke is also a genius, who doesn't have tier 5 intelligence. Talent doesn't equal to intelligence.
> 
> Frankly, I don't expect Minato to have tier 5 intelligence, but I wouldn't be that surprised either if he had it, simply because of his GOAT hype. But there is absolutely no way to justify that based on his display.
> 
> ...



Sasuke is much younger, less knowledgable and less wisdom. Sasuke didn't even have a clue who Madara was a while back, while minato thought Obito could be him. Itachi and Kakashi are both 5s in intellect because their amount of knowledge and experience allow them to be. I know that the man who trained Kakashi will have a 5 in intelligence. I gave you a list of impressive showings, choose to ignore them if you want, but don't say he doesn't have showings. Before jiraya died, he said at they hadn't had a genius like minato ever since. He'll get a 5 in intelligence, it's just common sense. And the fact that you think talent is the only way to measure genius and intellect is why you're mistaken. 

In the databook minato is described as:
Wise, Quick Thinker, Ability to Command, Shinobi of uncommon talent (not just regular talent, uncommon), Had the Talent to invent MANY jutsu in his own style. 
Minato was also an inventor, 

I told you why he has a 5 in stamina, you're ignoring that too I see. Is that just how you are  His stamina was confirmed the moment he displayed sage jutsu. And how showings are great as well. I can 100% vouch for his stamina being 5, I can argue this all day, the evidence and feats are all there. And I can prove it over and over again. Trust me, this is definitely one that isn't up for debate.


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Oct 15, 2014)

Sage Jutsu doesn't count.. It's a Jutsu..


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 15, 2014)

RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki said:


> Sasuke is much younger, less knowledgable and less wisdom.


Shikamaru is the same age as Sasuke and has tier 5 intelligence.

Jiraiya is 50+ years old and has only 4.5 intelligence.

So you what you just said is irrelevant.



> Sasuke didn't even have a clue who Madara was a while back, while minato thought Obito could be him. Itachi and Kakashi are both 5s in intellect because their amount of knowledge and experience allow them to be.


Kakashi is less knowledgeable than Itachi. Again, I don't see your point.



> I know that the man who trained Kakashi will have a 5 in intelligence.


And the man who trained Minato doesn't have 5 in intelligence.




> I gave you a list of impressive showings, choose to ignore them if you want, but don't say he doesn't have showings.


I didn't ignore them, but they aren't exceptional. Minato never struck off me as the highly intelligent type. He didn't say anything wise or intelligent during his panel time.



> Before jiraya died, he said at they hadn't had a genius like minato ever since. He'll get a 5 in intelligence, it's just common sense. And the fact that you think talent is the only way to measure genius and intellect is why you're mistaken.


Genuis = talent regarding a certain area. That doesn't translate into high intellect or wisdom or knowledge. Not in Narutoverse.



> In the databook minato is described as:
> Wise, Quick Thinker, Ability to Command, Shinobi of uncommon talent (not just regular talent, uncommon), Had the Talent to invent MANY jutsu in his own style.
> Minato was also an inventor,


Actually other than rasengan he doesn't have any inventions. Death God was an Uzumaki technique, Hirashin was Tobirama's.

And while rasengan is cool and all, it is basically a spinning ball of chakra. I rather not limit Minato's creativity with that.



> I told you why he has a 5 in stamina, you're ignoring that too I see. Is that just how you are  His stamina was confirmed the moment he displayed sage jutsu. And how showings are great as well. I can 100% vouch for his stamina being 5, I can argue this all day, the evidence and feats are all there. And I can prove it over and over again. Trust me, this is definitely one that isn't up for debate.



Minato wasn't able to properly use SM, so it all the way points towards him not having tier 5 stamina. And Minato wasn't hyped for his immense chakra, ever.

Again, let me repeat. I wouldn't be surprised if Kishimto gives 5 to Minato in all categories, including genjutsu. We can all chalk it up to "GOAT hype, but there is absolutely no way to justify him getting 5 in intelligence, stamina, strength, taijutsu and genjutsu through his showings in the manga.
Nor through the statements made about him.


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## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Oct 15, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Shikamaru is the same age as Sasuke and has tier 5 intelligence.
> 
> Jiraiya is 50+ years old and has only 4.5 intelligence.
> 
> ...



Jiraya's 4.5 in intelligence doesn't mean anything, because he already labeled minato a genius that comes once in a generation. Jiraya already said that Naruto is more like him than minato. Both jiraya and Naruto were idiots, that's how both were portrayed. Only reason Jiraya's score is quite high is due to experience and wisdom, when it comes to actual brains, he isn't the best.

Shikamaru is more intelligent than Sasuke, so I don't see your point. Shikamaru isn't rash like Sasuke and always likes to plan a head and think things through. The reason Sasuke has a 4.5 is because the guy jus always throwing hissy fits and doesn't always think about the consequences of his actions. Itachi already stated that Sasuke is like a blank canvas that can easily be painted over. Sasuke is easily manipulated, why would someone like that have a 5 in intelligence. Find a better example because even I wouldn't give Sasuke a 5 in intelligence.

Kakashi is less knowledgable that itachi based on what?? Why does this even matter, both have 5s in intelligence and rightly so. Both were labeled as prodigies and geniuses from an early age (same as minato). 

Yes you are ignoring them, his feats are exceptional, and unless you go through each one and tell me why they aren't, then you point is irrelevant or who has feats equal to all of Minatos. Minato can devises battle strategies and counter measures in seconds. He can decipher jutsu and analyse it's strengths and weaknesses after seeing it once. The guy took considerable measures to make sure the world was safe from the masked man. Tsuande and jiraya called him a shrewd man, and someone who would never do something without reason. 

That's not what genius means, especially in Naruto. You literally just made that up. Please get me the databook of where you found that horrid definition. I know kishi didn't write that.

Databook disagrees with you. Minato invented many jutsu in his own own style. Just because you haven't seen them doesn't mean they aren't there. Unlike some characters, minato hasn't had the same number of screen time to show his entire arsenal. We know Kushina taught him lots of sealing jutsu, and we know he has a chakra nature according to Kakashi.

Yes minato was properly able to use sage mode, please don't make me get out the manga pages to prove you wrong. Minatos sage mode > Jiraya's, yet jiraya has a 5 in stamina. You can't even handle nature energy at all if you don't have enormous chakra.


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Oct 15, 2014)

Some are seriously misconceiving the word "Genius" in Naruto.. The only time it was ever literally used was for Shikamaru.. The other times it was hyping their talent, like Mohamed Ali was a genius [in boxing]..


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## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Oct 15, 2014)

Khris said:


> Some are seriously misconceiving the word "Genius" in Naruto.. The only time it was ever literally used was for Shikamaru.. The other times it was hyping their talent, like Mohamed Ali was a genius [in boxing]..



There a difference to being simply called a genius. There there is a genius that comes once in a generation. Both orochimaru and minato were called that iirc.

And genius isn't the only term used, there is uncommon talent, prodigy, wise, shrewd, quick thinking, assumes a precise command. All words kishi used to describe a single character in his databook. There you have his analytical ability feats in addition to all that. 

Not sure why anyone would think he doesn't have max intelligence stats, just because they act goofy sometimes  not sure how personality can determine a persons intelligence.


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## Turrin (Oct 15, 2014)

Viz, Jiraiya: Aw come on, everybody pales in comparison to the fourth lord. As a shinobi his capacity was unparalleled, a true one-of-a kind. He was overflowing with talent for jutsu and intelligence....He was socially popular..



Grimmjowsensei said:


> Like I said above, talent = / = intelligence, knowledge or wisdom.


The reasons Jiriaya considers Minato a once in a decade genius are given in the above quote, and it includes intelligence



> Minato is very talented, but he has no showings that depict him above average on the categories I mentioned.


What about his analysis of Tobi's abilities, Kakashi's Rarikiri, and Juubito's Gudodama. Or him developing and conceptualizing several different Jutsu. I think Minato has plenty of intelligence feats and hype. And the intelligence stat is not all IQ, it's IQ and knowledge. Minato having fought in probably more than 1 shinobi war, become hokage, etc... should have a great wealth of knowledge, which is also counted as Wisdom and even Itachi acknowledge Minato was wiser than he in certain regards. You don't have to be some IQ monster like Shikkamaru or Kakashi to receive a 5 in intelligence, you just need an overall good balance of smarts and wisdom; Minato should have that based on what's shown and stated in the manga.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 15, 2014)

RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki said:


> Jiraya's 4.5 in intelligence doesn't mean anything, because he already labeled minato a genius that comes once in a generation. Jiraya already said that Naruto is more like him than minato. Both jiraya and Naruto were idiots, that's how both were portrayed. Only reason Jiraya's score is quite high is due to experience and wisdom, when it comes to actual brains, he isn't the best.
> 
> Shikamaru is more intelligent than Sasuke, so I don't see your point. Shikamaru isn't rash like Sasuke and always likes to plan a head and think things through. The reason Sasuke has a 4.5 is because the guy jus always throwing hissy fits and doesn't always think about the consequences of his actions. Itachi already stated that Sasuke is like a blank canvas that can easily be painted over. Sasuke is easily manipulated, why would someone like that have a 5 in intelligence. Find a better example because even I wouldn't give Sasuke a 5 in intelligence.
> 
> ...



You keep repeating the same thing, without adressing any of my points.

Anyways, what Khris said : 



Khris said:


> Some are seriously misconceiving the word "Genius" in Naruto.. The only time it was ever literally used was for Shikamaru.. The other times it was hyping their talent, like Mohamed Ali was a genius [in boxing]..




Neji, Sasuke, Haku etc are all labeled as geniuses. None of them are super smart, none of them have tier 5 intelligence.



Turrin said:


> Viz, Jiraiya: Aw come on, everybody pales in comparison to the fourth lord. As a shinobi his capacity was unparalleled, a true one-of-a kind. He was overflowing with talent for jutsu and intelligence....He was socially popular..



Well, yeah thats probably the only justification I guess. He was labeled as bright. And like I said, I wouldn't be surprised if he got a 5 on Int. I just don't see it.

edit : 



Turrin said:


> The reasons Jiriaya considers Minato a once in a decade genius are given in the above quote, and it includes intelligence
> 
> 
> What about his analysis of Tobi's abilities, Kakashi's Rarikiri, and Juubito's Gudodama. Or him developing and conceptualizing several different Jutsu. I think Minato has plenty of intelligence feats and hype. And the intelligence stat is not all IQ, it's IQ and knowledge. Minato having fought in probably more than 1 shinobi war, become hokage, etc... should have a great wealth of knowledge, which is also counted as Wisdom and even Itachi acknowledge Minato was wiser than he in certain regards. *You don't have to be some IQ monster like Shikkamaru or Kakashi* to receive a 5 in intelligence, you just need an overall good balance of smarts and wisdom; Minato should have that based on what's shown and stated in the manga.



Yeah I agree with that. But again, Minato never stood out with his "mind." He never said anything intelligent or wise. If Kishimoto is trying to convey that a character has an exceptional mind, he keeps enforcing it through out the manga and databook with actions and words. 


But again, I wouldn't be surprised if he got a 5. I am not saying that he couldn't have it, I just don't think it would be as legit as say someone like Kakashi or Itachi having it. Just like how Oro and Hiruzen have tier 5 in genjutsu and yet no feats or hype to suggest that they are exceptionally good with it.

What do you guys think Obito's stats would be ? 

I think his stats will be similar to Kakashi, with a stronger body(stamina strength) and a weaker mind(intelligence). 

I can accept Minato having a 5 on int, but I'd really lol hard if Obito also gets a 5 too.


----------



## Turrin (Oct 15, 2014)

@Grimmjowsensei

I listed several examples of Minato demonstrating his intelligence and why his knowledge/wisdom should be also be high as well. Saying he's not as legit as characters like Itachi, Kakashi, and Shikka, is basically like saying we'll he's not among the top 10 (if not top 5) most brilliant characters in the series, so I don't think he should get a 5. But it doesn't work that way, you don't need to be the best of the best to get a top score, you just need to very-good in that specific area, which everything in the manga indicates Minato is.

Edit: I'd also like to note that Orochimaru and Hiruzen's hype of mastering countless jutsu does back up their 5s in Genjutsu; because even if only 100 Jutsu out of the thousands they have mastered are Genjutsu, that would still do a-lot to justify their ranking, combined that with them studying many jutsu and thus gaining a great deal of knowledge on Genjutsu techniques, and you have the reason for their 5s. As for why we never got any Genjutsu feats from them, I think that's most circumstantial. Hiruzen didn't use many of his techniques against Orochimaru because he quickly realized he could not win w/ a Jutsu exchange and fell back on Shiki-Fuujin. Besides that he got little focus as an Edo-Tensei, and when he did it was usually just stepping into to defend a Ninjutsu technique were Genjutsu would not have been useful. Orochimaru mostly fought Uchiha where Genjutsu wouldn't have been as effective as Ninjutsu, and when he fought Hiruzen he was having the Tensei do most of the work.


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## lathia (Oct 15, 2014)

You don't see Minato as a genius? The guy is the embodiment of shinobi perfection as per Itachi, Hagoromo, and even Kurama praises him and expects nothing less of him. In a manga where Kishimoto cares about love, friendship, and teamwork I would be surprised if he gets anything lower than a 4.5.


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## Gunners (Oct 15, 2014)

Minato
Ninjutsu- 5
Taijutsu- 4
Genjutsu- 4
Intelligence-5
Strength- 3.5
Speed- 5
Stamina- 4
Hand seal- 5

Naruto
Ninjutsu- 5
Taijutsu- 4.5
Genjutsu- 3
Intelligence- 4
Strength- 5
Speed- 5
Stamina- 5
Handseal- 3.5

Sasuke
Ninjutsu- 5
Taijutsu- 4.5
Genjutsu- 5
Intelligence- 4
Strength- 3.5
Speed- 5
Stamina- 4 
Handseal 4.5


----------



## Trojan (Oct 15, 2014)

> Yeah I agree with that. But again, Minato never stood out with his "mind." He never said anything intelligent or wise. If Kishimoto is trying to convey that a character has an exceptional mind, he keeps enforcing it through out the manga and databook with actions and words.



lol, he did not say anything intelligent or wise? 
and what has Kakashi and itachi done exactly compare to him?

Kakashi needed several encounters with Obito, and help from several people, and he barely knew Kamui even though he's a user of the same jutsu himself. Something Minato did in one second and he's never seen the jutsu before.

Itachi?
Isn't that the same guy with the brilliant ideas that told Sasuke to kill his best friend, and the same guy who thought making Sasuke an S-rank criminal would end up making him return to the village as a hero? Please, he's with the most fucked up things. 

Minato shits all over him. lol
It's an insult to compare the two. 

Itachi stayed with Obito 10 fucking years, and he still couldn't comprehend his abilities, it's no wonder Zetsu said he's a dense. 

Itachi's plans of putting his Amatersu with Sasuke to kill Obito failed after TEN YEARS of spying on him. Minato's plan with sealing his and Kushina's chakra in Naruto worked perfectly in Naruto's favour and saved his life twice. Naruto ended up having the power Minato wanted, and even Kurama stated that everything went as Minato wanted. 

What are itachi's analysing feats again? He knew about Nagato's CT after spying for 10 years and counted it with Naruto and B's power? That's his only one, and with previous knowledge. lol 

Itachi admitted that his ways are wrong, and how much he failed to Sasuke when they were talking together. and he even took Minato's way and gave an advice to Naruto based on what his father was doing, not his own failures that made Sasuke end up a criminal. 

In addition to what Turrin said; Minato specifically was one of the characters Kishi mentioned his knowledge and experiences.



> p148
> 
> ↓His leadership ability cultivated through actual battles must have been utilized after he was installed as Hokage too.
> 
> ...




Wise?
Wasn't he the one who thought wisely what to do with Kurama instead of leaving the village without a Bijuu, and with a pack up plane for Naruto, instead of leaving him without a clue like what Itachi did to Sasuke? And he never learned that except after his Edo Form. 

and his words to Obito, the whole stuff about making his mind weak or something (I don't remember the exact thing) ...etc

I got tiered. -___-


----------



## Eliyua23 (Oct 15, 2014)

Minato should have at least a 4 in strength , I mean he sliced thru Hachibi like butter with just a kunai , his stamina should also be at least 4.5 considering he was a candidate for Sage Mode and what he pulled of the night of the Kyuubi.

Intelligence , Speed, Nin are undeniable 5's for Minato as those are what his characters has been hyped based upon .


I mean all geniuses have had their stupid moments sans Itachi, Shikamaru, Kakashi 

Orochimaru, Kabuto who are more intelligent than Minato have done dumb shit in the manga that still didn't prevent them from getting a 5 in Int


----------



## Trojan (Oct 15, 2014)

^
How did you figure that Oro and Kabuto are more intelligent than Minato?


----------



## Complete_Ownage (Oct 15, 2014)

Hussain said:


> ^
> How did you figure that Oro and Kabuto are more intelligent than Minato?



Because Intelligence can be broken down to numerous sub catergories. The only thing Minato excells at over those two would be battle interlect


----------



## Trojan (Oct 15, 2014)

and what are the areas that they are better than him?


----------



## Divinstrosity (Oct 15, 2014)

Obito should probably have a 5 in intelligence. 

Even though I feel his competency was retconned - i.e. he was a loser Uchiha, and can magically go toe to toe with Minato simply because he awakened the sharingan ?? Sasuke and Itachi, for instance, exhibited great talent before ever awakening their sharingan, Obito did not - the 'new' version of Obito was intelligent enough to manipulate high level shinobi for years, and convince the world he was Madara. 

That HAS to be a 5.

As for Minato, he'll get a 5, too. I felt Kishimoto poorly showcased how talented Minato was supposed to be, but the hype remains. No need to fight it.


----------



## Kishido (Oct 15, 2014)

Hamura has max stats


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Oct 15, 2014)

RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki said:


> There a difference to being simply called a genius. There there is a genius that comes once in a generation. Both orochimaru and minato were called that iirc.



"Genius that comes once in a generation" is a hype statement, there's no reason to take it literally, and there's no implication that it meant to be used to different than Neji's statement..  



> And genius isn't the only term used, there is uncommon talent, prodigy, wise, shrewd, quick thinking, assumes a precise command. All words kishi used to describe a single character in his databook. There you have his analytical ability feats in addition to all that.



Only that sentence wasn't used to specifically hype his intelligence, it was all around hype. Again, not like Shikamaru.



> Not sure why anyone would think he doesn't have max intelligence stats, just because they act goofy sometimes  not sure how personality can determine a persons intelligence.



1) I am not for nor against Minato getting a 5.

2) Hopefully that reply wasn't for me, as I never addressed his silliness/goofiness.. 

I was just clearing the air about the word "Genius" in Kishi's manga. When Kishi dedicates chapters upon chapters hyping a character's intelligence after calling him a "Genius" (ala. Shikamaru) then you can use the word literally.. That is not to say that said character _isn't_ smart or _doesn't_ deserve a 5 in intelligence, but there's no denying Kishi is easy with the word, and he definitely used it as a means for a different meaning(if that makes sense)..


----------



## PopoTime (Oct 15, 2014)

*Sakura*
Ninjutsu- 4
Taijutsu- 4.5
Genjutsu- 4
Intelligence-5
Strength- 5
Speed- 4
Stamina- 5
Hand seal- 4
Total - 35.5

*Naruto*
Ninjutsu- 5
Taijutsu- 5
Genjutsu- 4 (due to immunity)
Intelligence- 5
Strength- 5
Speed- 5
Stamina- 5
Handseal- 4
Total- 38

Sasuke
Ninjutsu- 5
Taijutsu- 4
Genjutsu- 5
Intelligence- 5
Strength- 3.5
Speed- 5
Stamina- 4
Handseal 5
Total- 36.5


----------



## Velocity (Oct 15, 2014)

At this point...

*Naruto*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 4
Strength: 5
Intelligence: 4
Stamina: 5
Speed: 5
Hand Seals: 5

*Sasuke*
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Strength: 4
Intelligence: 5
Stamina: 5
Speed: 5
Hand Seals: 5


----------



## StickaStick (Oct 15, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> What do you guys think Obito's stats would be ?
> 
> I think his stats will be similar to Kakashi, with a stronger body(stamina strength) and a weaker mind(intelligence).
> 
> I can accept Minato having a 5 on int, but I'd really lol hard if Obito also gets a 5 too.



I could see Obito getting something like a 4.5, but a 5 wouldn't be unjustified and IMO is the more accurate score.

You're talking about someone who, among other things:
- Ran Akatsuki from the shadows for a number of years
- Successfully manipulated countless individuals
- Is possibly only third to BZ and Madara in terms of knowledge of shinobi history
- Orchestrated a shinobi world war, with assistance from Kabuto
- Was able to quickly utilize Mokuton, something Zetsu was impressed with
- Somehow discerned the Curse Seal placed on his heart and in the heat of the war was able to have it removed while surviving against a lethal opponent such as Kakashi and become the Juubi's Jin

You could also throw in something like him controlling a Perfect Jin, but that's more dubious. Hopefully it gets cleared up in the DB.

Anyway, he's wasn't a natural genius or innately gifted in the sense of a Kakashi, Shikamaura, or Itachi, but having had mentors such as Madara and Minato and having an almost unparalleled resilience to accomplish anything will make up for quite a bit of that. (Having a top-2 haxxed Sharingan ability also doesn't hurt in the way of removing potential obstacles, such as gaining easy access to studying the Uchiha tablet; something that could have been nigh impossible for Obito otherwise). 

He hasn't been depicted as a top battle strategist by any stretch of the imagination, but his cunning, planning (both for the long-term and contingency wise), and on-the-spot thinking all rank at the top. His analytical abilities are too bad either having deduced he could sync his Kamui with Kaguya's dimensional-shifting ability and how much chakra was required, all by quickly analyzing her ability.

That's my summarized case for him getting a 5, anyway.


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Oct 15, 2014)

Khris said:


> How? At the time of his death he was weak and frail.. It's like saying Kakashi and Itachi should get 5 in Stamina cuz they could rejuvenate through some Jutsu.
> 
> Which Kakashi did btw..



Itachi showed he had crappy stamina throughout; he died after using the MS 5 times. Kakashi always moaned about stamina... the comparison isn't even close.

At the time of death he also had the Rinnegan, which happens to boost his capabilities as we saw via Demon Realm; those aren't normal arms.


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## Altair21 (Oct 15, 2014)

Hashirama

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 4.5
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Intelligence: 4.5
Handseals: 5
Total 39

Madara:

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Strength: 4.5
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 5
Intelligence: 5
Handseals: 4.5
Total: 38.5

Naruto:

Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 4 (this really depends on if defense against genjutsu is counted. if it is then he gets a 4. if not then he gets a 3.5)
Strength: 5
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Intelligence: 4
Handseals: 4 (Naruto never uses handseals for anything except kage bunshin)
Total: 37

Sasuke:

Ninjutsu : 5
Taijutsu: 5
Genjutsu: 5
Strength: 4
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Intelligence: 4.5
Handseals: 5
Total: 38.5


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## Jizznificent (Oct 15, 2014)

i've been waiting too long. i'm just not as hyped for this book anymore.


----------



## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Oct 15, 2014)

Khris said:


> "Genius that comes once in a generation" is a hype statement, there's no reason to take it literally, and there's no implication that it meant to be used to different than Neji's statement..
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Fair enough, I see your points. Maybe you're right about the term genius.

However, minato is still labelled as a quick thinker, precise command and shrewd. All word which I think fairly hint that of high intelligence. When it comes to knowledge, he knew of Madara and his predecessors, he gave Ay and bee lectures, and I remember him scolding Naruto to always looks at what's going on around you. And I think his battle int
Left feats are very good, in fact many characters don't have as much as him, despite Minatos few appearances. Plus any character who can create a jutsu, I'd say deffo gets a 5 in intelligence.


----------



## sakuraboobs (Oct 15, 2014)

Naruto Uzumaki:
Ninjutsu: 5.0
Taijutsu: 5.0
Gentjutsu: 2.5
Intelligence: 3.5 
Strength: 5.0
Speed: 5.0
Sta: 5.0
Seal: 3.0
Total: 34.0 (From 26)

Sasuke Uchiha:
Ninjutsu: 5.0
Taijutsu: 4.0
Genjutsu: 5.0
Intelligence: 4.0 
Strength: 3.5 
Speed: 5.0
Stamina: 4.0
Seal: 4.0
Total: 34.5 (from 31.5)

Sakura Haruno:
Ninjutsu: 4.0
Taijutsu: 4.0
Genjutsu: 3.5 
Intelligence: 5.0 
Strength: 5.0
Speed: 3.5
Stamina: 3.0 
Seals: 5.0
Total:  33.0 (from 26)

Kiba Inuzuka:
Ninjutsu: 4.0
Taijutsu: 3.5 
Genjutsu: 2.0
Intelligence: 3.0
Strength: 4.0
Speed: 4.5
Stamina: 3.0
Seal: 2.0
Total: 26.0 (from 22)

Hinata Hyuga:
Ninjutsu: 3.5
Taijutsu: 3.5
Genjutsu: 2.0 
Intelligence: 3.5
Strength: 1.5 
Speed: 3.0
Stamina: 2.5 
Seal: 3.0
Total: 22.5 (from 21.5)

Shino Aburame:
Ninjutsu: 4.5
Taijutsu: 1.5
Genjutsu: 1.5
Intelligence: 4.0 
Strength: 1.5
Speed: 3.0
Stamina: 3.0 
Seal: 2.5
Total: 21.5 (from 21)

Shikamaru Nara: 
Ninjutsu: 3,5 
Taijutsu: 2.0 
Genjutsu: 3.0 
Intelligence: 5.0 
Strength: 2.0 
Speed: 3.0 
Stamina: 3.5 
Seal: 3.0
Total: 25.0 (from 24.5)

Ino Yamanaka:
Ninjutsu: 4.0 
Taijutsu: 1.5 
Genjutsu: 3.0
Intelligence: 3.5 
Strength: 2.5 
Speed: 2.5 
Stamina: 2.5 
Seal: 3.0 
Total: 22.5 (from 21)

Choji Akimichi:
Ninjutsu: 4.0 
Taijutsu: 3.5 
Genjutsu: 1.0 
Intelligence: 2.0 
Strength: 4.5
Speed: 3.0 
Stamina: 4.0
Seal: 1.0 
Total: 23.0 (from 20.5)

Neji Hyuga: 
Ninjutsu: 4.5 
Taijutsu: 4.5 
Genjutsu: 2.0
Intelligence: 3.0
Strength: 2.5
Speed: 4.5 
Stamina: 3.5
Seal: 3 
Total: 27.5 (from 27)

Rock Lee:
Ninjutsu: 0.5 
Taijutsu: 5 
Genjutsu: 1 
Intelligence: 2.0
Strength: 5.0
Speed: 5.0
Stamina: 4.0
Seal: 1.0
Total: 23.5 (from 22)

Tenten:
Ninjutsu: 3.5 
Taijutsu: 3.5
Genjutsu: 1.5 
Intelligence: 3.5 
Strength: 1.5 
Speed: 4.0
Stamina: 2.5
Seal: 2.5
Total: 22.5 (from 20.5)


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## Jad (Oct 16, 2014)

I just wanna see what Kishi says about Hirudora in the Databook.


[Pic of Hirudora vs. Madara Sasuno] <---------- "It even destroyed Sasuno!" 

Number users left in the Battledome? Like 5.


----------



## Gilgamesh (Oct 16, 2014)

Kaguya:
Ninjutsu: 5
Taijutsu: 4
Genjutsu: 5
Strength: 4
Speed: 5
Stamina: 5
Intelligence: 0
Handseals: 5


----------



## Overhaul (Oct 16, 2014)

*
Bitch nicca zetsu*
Ninjutsu: 0
Taijutsu: 0
Genjutsu: 0
Strength: 0
Speed: 5
Stamina: 0
Intelligence: 5
Handseals: 0


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 16, 2014)

StickaStick said:


> I could see Obito getting something like a 4.5, but a 5 wouldn't be unjustified and IMO is the more accurate score.
> 
> You're talking about someone who, among other things:
> - Ran Akatsuki from the shadows for a number of years
> ...




The thing is, Obito was extremely resourceful. Knowledge was passed on to him through Madara and then through Zetsu(who turned out to be the guy knew everything about ninja history) and he was manipulated into manipulating others. He wasn't the real guy behind the shadows. He was given a mission, and he was executing it.

Mostr of Obito's accomplishments are a result of the vast resources he had access to. I don't think he is an idiot, and I do think he is one of the most knowledgeable individuals in the manga, but I think he isn't that smart.

But when I think about it, there are other characters without any standout intelligence feats who also got 5's, so Obito may indeed have a 5. It'd be justified, somehow.



Jad said:


> I just wanna see what Kishi says about Hirudora in the Databook.
> 
> 
> [Pic of Hirudora vs. Madara Sasuno] <---------- "It even destroyed Sasuno!"
> ...



that'd be a sad day indeed my friend, I'd take a week off


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Oct 16, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Itachi showed he had crappy stamina throughout; he died after using the MS 5 times. Kakashi always moaned about stamina... the comparison isn't even close.



Why? Because he didn't complain about his strength.. Well this is a new one.. 

He has zero strength feats without using Preta or Asura.. They're BOTH Jutsus.. Jutsus don't count.. Not really hard to grasp... 



> At the time of death he also had the Rinnegan, which happens to boost his capabilities as we saw via Demon Realm; those aren't normal arms.



Rinnegan is why his body weakened in the first place tho.. I mean, even if we assume he can permanently raise his strength, chances are he'll become weak again because he doesn't have the right requirements for the Rinnegan like Obito, Madara, and Sasuke.


----------



## HoseNTricks (Oct 16, 2014)

> People giving Sakura a 5 for intelligence.


----------



## phlogistinator123 (Oct 16, 2014)

*Reasonable Lower Estimates of Nagato's Stats*

I suspect that Nagato has these stats, based on a more reasonable estimate:

*Nagato (Crippled main body):*
*Ninjustu-5* (Rinnegan mastery)
*Taijutsu-4.5* (not 0, because he has the skill, even in his crippled body. I would say he is on par with Itachi in this one, but neither Itachi nor Nagato should be on par with Lee, if we compare them in terms of the absolute mastery of Taijutsu in SINGLE bodies - that means none of Nagato's corpses have been individually shown to be as proficient as a single Lee)
*Genjutsu- at least 3* (for being able to put genjutsu traps in his corpses, but I have yet to see him use genjutsu, and Rinnegan immunity to visual genjutsu does not constitute genjutsu skill)
*Intelligence- at least 4 *(for being the mastermind planner and leader)
*Strength-1* (cripple, but even his arms can at least move right?)
*Speed-0* (bound to wheelchair)
*Stamina-5* (because of Uzumaki descend)
*Seal-5* (because he learnt every jutsu Jiraiya taught him by 10)

*Total: At least 27.5*

*Nagato ("Prime" without Edo Tensei but with LEGS damaged):*
*Ninjustu-5* (Rinnegan mastery)
*Taijutsu-4.5* (see above)
*Genjutsu- at least 3* (for being able to put genjutsu traps in his corpses, but I have yet to see him use genjutsu, and Rinnegan immunity to visual genjutsu does not constitute genjutsu skill)
*Intelligence- at least 4 *(for being the mastermind planner and leader)
*Strength-5* (because of Asura path being able to block a sage-mode punch)
*Speed- at least 3* (at least 3 due to Asura boosters, but due to crippled legs ... hmm)
*Stamina-5* (because of Uzumaki descend)
*Seal-5* (because he learnt every jutsu Jiraiya taught him by 10)

*Total: At least 34.5*

*Nagato (with 6 Paths):*
*Ninjustu-5* (Rinnegan mastery)
*Taijutsu-4.5* (see above)
*Genjutsu- at least 3* (for being able to put genjutsu traps in his corpses, but I have yet to see him use genjutsu, and Rinnegan immunity to visual genjutsu does not constitute genjutsu skill)
*Intelligence- at least 4 *(for being the mastermind planner and leader)
*Strength-5* (because of Asura path being able to block a sage-mode punch)
*Speed- 5* (for evading a sage-mode Jiraiya who has base 4.5 speed)
*Stamina-5* (because of Uzumaki descend)
*Seal-5* (because he learnt every jutsu Jiraiya taught him by 10)

*Total: At least 37.5*

I think the above estimates seem to be reasonable as bare minimums. It could be higher, but until I see evidence of those, I am unable to attribute more than those.

However, because Nagato is most often seen as the one portrayed with 6 paths, I will use the last one as the final verdict. However, being generous, I can attribute at least 3.5 to genjutsu if genjutsu traps are really that hard to set up, such that it is powerful enough to deter even skilled ninjas, and at least 4.5 to intel, if he designed all his bodies and had to oversee everything. *So that adds +1 more at a conservative estimate.*

*Final Verdict: 
At least 37.5 (minimum estimate) 
Most probably at least 38.5 (conservative estimate) *


----------



## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Oct 16, 2014)

Minato:
Ninjutsu - 5
Taijutsu - 5
Genjutsu - 4
Strength - 3.5
Speed - 5
Stamina - 5
Intelligence - 5
Hand Seals - 5
Total - 37.5

Tobirama:
Ninjutsu - 5
Taijutsu - 5
Genjutsu - 4
Strength - 3.5
Speed - 5
Stamina - 5
Intelligence - 5
Hand Seals - 5
Total - 37.5

Hashirama:
Ninjutsu -5
Taijutsu - 5
Genjutsu - 4.5
Strength - 4.5
Speed - 4.5
Stamina - 5
Intelligence - 4.5
Hand Seals - 5
Total - 38

Ay:
Ninjutsu - 5
Taijutsu - 5
Genjutsu - 3
Strength - 5
Speed - 5
Stamina - 5
Intelligence - 4
Hand Seals - 3
Total - 35

Ohnoki:
Ninjutsu - 5
Taijutsu - 3
Genjutsu - 3.5
Strength - 3 
Speed - 4.5
Stamina - 3
Intelligence - 5
Hand Seals - 5
Total - 32

Mei: 
Ninjutsu - 5
Taijutsu - 4
Genjutsu - 4
Strength - 2.5
Speed - 3.5
Stamina - 5
Intelligence - 4
Hand Seals - 5
Total - 33

Danzo:
Ninjutsu - 5
Taijutsu - 4
Genjutsu - 5
Strength - 3
Speed - 3.5
Stamina - 3
Intelligence - 5
Hand Seals - 5
Total - 33.5

Killer Bee:
Ninjutsu - 5
Taijutsu - 5
Genjutsu - 3
Strength - 5
Speed - 4.5
Stamina - 5
Intelligence - 3.5
Hand Seals - 3
Total - 34


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Oct 16, 2014)

Khris said:


> Why? Because he didn't complain about his strength.. Well this is a new one..
> 
> He has zero strength feats without using Preta or Asura.. They're BOTH Jutsus.. Jutsus don't count.. Not really hard to grasp...



Preta and Asura *are Kekkei Genkai* which are factored into the scores. Itachi, Kakashi... anyone with a Kekkei Genkai would have lower scores without their Kekkei Genkai.

Also how did you make the link between stamina and strength?



> Rinnegan is why his body weakened in the first place tho.. I mean, even if we assume he can permanently raise his strength, chances are he'll become weak again because he doesn't have the right requirements for the Rinnegan like Obito, Madara, and Sasuke.



The Rinnegan didn't weaken his body; that was Madara's will. Also if you want to take it that way: the Rinnegan is also the the thing that rejuvenated his body too.

Obito, Madara and Sasuke weren't stabbed synchronised with the Gedo Mazo like Nagato was. Nagato was the only user to synchronise with it.


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## Jυstin (Oct 16, 2014)

It's amazing how hung up and defensive people get over Databook stats.

I guess someone needs care about them since Kishimoto obviously doesn't.


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## StickaStick (Oct 16, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> The thing is, Obito was extremely resourceful. Knowledge was passed on to him through Madara and then through Zetsu(who turned out to be the guy knew everything about ninja history) and he was manipulated into manipulating others. He wasn't the real guy behind the shadows. He was given a mission, and he was executing it.


I don't quite see how that matters when intelligence is basically the ability to apply acquired knowledge, which Obito did outstandingly well. 

As far as him being manipulated, yeah, but that doesn't contradict the fact that he still formulated his owns plans, including one's that even allowed him to outmaneuver his manipulator (Mads) to a certain point. In fact, the very notion that Obito was able to figure out that Uchiha Madara was attempting to manipulate him and figured it out, including how, strikes me as a very-high mark of intelligence, since we can assume Mads is no slouch and covered his tracks well  And not everything that he's displayed that could be deemed high-intelligence can be attributed to his good fortune. Furthermore, that would understate the fact that even those with resources need to be intelligent enough to use them. 



> Mostr of Obito's accomplishments are a result of the vast resources he had access to. I don't think he is an idiot, and I do think he is one of the most knowledgeable individuals in the manga, but I think he isn't that smart.


I'm not sure I buy this argument--even intelligent shinobi has had access to important resources in one way or another. Would Itachi be lauded for his Hokage level wisdom if he hadn't read the Uchiha tablet which required a Sharingan? Would Kakashi have as impressive a battle savvy without having had Minato and Sakumo as his mentors? And so-on and so-on. If anything, this makes he appreciate someone like Shikamaru's who was as ordinary as they come and was afforded no such comparable advantages and still laps most of the competitors as far as intelligence is concerned lol


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 17, 2014)

StickaStick said:


> I don't quite see how that matters when intelligence is basically the ability to apply acquired knowledge, which Obito did outstandingly well.
> 
> As far as him being manipulated, yeah, but that doesn't contradict the fact that he still formulated his owns plans, including one's that even allowed him to outmaneuver his manipulator (Mads) to a certain point. In fact, the very notion that Obito was able to figure out that Uchiha Madara was attempting to manipulate him and figured it out, including how, strikes me as a very-high mark of intelligence, since we can assume Mads is no slouch and covered his tracks well  And not everything that he's displayed that could be deemed high-intelligence can be attributed to his good fortune. Furthermore, that would understate the fact that even those with resources need to be intelligent enough to use them.


I think this is a good analogy : 

Say you are homeless guy. You basically have nothing. And then some very rich guy who is about to pass away, picks you up from the dumpster you live in,  and passess on all of his wealth to you. You all of a sudden become a billionaire, and he assigns one of his most trusted consultants to guide you through the way.

Thats what Obito was, imo. He was given vast amount of resources and was guided through out.



> I'm not sure I buy this argument--even intelligent shinobi has had access to important resources in one way or another. Would Itachi be lauded for his Hokage level wisdom if he hadn't read the Uchiha tablet which required a Sharingan? Would Kakashi have as impressive a battle savvy without having had Minato and Sakumo as his mentors? And so-on and so-on. If anything, this makes he appreciate someone like Shikamaru's who was as ordinary as they come and was afforded no such comparable advantages and still laps most of the competitors as far as intelligence is concerned lol



Itachi probably didn't have sharingan when he was 7, it was his first year @ the academy. And we were told that he mastered the sharingan @ the age of 8. 

I am not sure if his Hokage level wisdom had anything to do with the Tablet, it more had to do with the way he approached and percieved his surroundings.

My point is, you don't have to be a very intelligent individual to accomplish what Obito did. 

He was given resources, a guide with limitless knowledge and a clear road map.


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## StickaStick (Oct 17, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> I think this is a good analogy :
> 
> Say you are homeless guy. You basically have nothing. And then some very rich guy who is about to pass away, picks you up from the dumpster you live in,  and passess on all of his wealth to you. You all of a sudden become a billionaire, and he assigns one of his most trusted consultants to guide you through the way.
> 
> Thats what Obito was, imo. He was given vast amount of resources and was guided through out.


Guided through what? He was taught specifically about jutsu (Uchiha Kinjutsu, et al.) and, presumably, how to to activate the Infinite Tsukyomi. However, as far as how to get from point A to point B, we can assume that was all his configuration. And once again, you're ignoring stuff like how he was able to discern the Curse Seal on his heart and the other marks of intelligence he demonstrated that had little to nothing to do with Mads and BZ.

Hell, Mads himself even eludes to Obito's ability to strategize/ plan [1]. We see when things went astray that BZ was going to Obito for further guidance, not even attempting to plant the next move into his head [2]. It seems to me like you're overstating BZ's importance here; his job we can infer was to keep an eye on Obito and act as a fail-safe in case he decided to betray Mads. 



> Itachi probably didn't have sharingan when he was 7, it was his first year @ the academy. And we were told that he mastered the sharingan @ the age of 8.
> 
> I am not sure if his Hokage level wisdom had anything to do with the Tablet, it more had to do with the way he approached and percieved his surroundings.


So does Gaiden-Obito get genius point for teaching Kakashi the importance of teamwork? A concept even Itachi didn't fully understand until post-modern 

I also doubt anyone could say one has Hokage level wisdom by simply having an acute ability to perceive and interpret their surroundings. There are actually probably quite a few fodder ninja who have that ability; but Hokage level wisdom I would think would require an even higher level of understanding, something reading and analyzing the Uchiha tablet would provide. 



> My point is, you don't have to be a very intelligent individual to accomplish what Obito did.
> 
> He was given resources, a guide with limitless knowledge and a clear road map.


See above why this is false and not what the manga portrayed to us.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 18, 2014)

StickaStick said:


> Guided through what? He was taught specifically about jutsu (Uchiha Kinjutsu, et al.) and, presumably, how to to activate the Infinite Tsukyomi. However, as far as how to get from point A to point B, we can assume that was all his configuration. And once again, you're ignoring stuff like how he was able to discern the Curse Seal on his heart and the other marks of intelligence he demonstrated that had little to nothing to do with Mads and BZ.
> 
> Hell, Mads himself even eludes to Obito's ability to strategize/ plan [1]. We see when things went astray that BZ was going to Obito for further guidance, not even attempting to plant the next move into his head [2]. It seems to me like you're overstating BZ's importance here; his job we can infer was to keep an eye on Obito and act as a fail-safe in case he decided to betray Mads.
> 
> ...



For  the cursed seal on his heart, I am not sure what intelligence have anything to do with it.
As for the tablet, again,  there is no evidence that 7 year old Itachi(Hiruzen was talking about) had the sharingan. Even if he had, the didn't master it by the age of 8 and even then, 3 tomoe sharingan allows you to see up to a certain point. MS shows more, EMS shows even more etc.

I highly doubt reading the tablet with 1 or 2 tomoe sharingan gave Itachi the wisdom Hiruzen was talking about. If t hat was the case, then every adult Uchiha in the clan would be wiser than Itachi was. The way Hiruzen described it sounded completely different than what you are making out to be.


I don't know bro. I'll stand by my argument. I think any average joe would have gotten as far as Obito did with the kind of knowledge, guidance(zetsu was constantly with him) and resources he had access to. Not saying Obito is average BTW, what I am saying is, it doesn't take much more than that to accomplish what he did.


----------



## StickaStick (Oct 18, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> For  the cursed seal on his heart, I am not sure what intelligence have anything to do with it.


You're talking about a situation where Obito had to (somehow) discover the Curse Seal and implement a plan to remove the it without BZ noticing and without being killed in the process, since the only way to do it apparently was by having it physically removed. Consider the circumstances at play. If this doesn't all require a high-level of intelligence, then what would you more aptly call it?



> As for the tablet, again,  there is no evidence that 7 year old Itachi(Hiruzen was talking about) had the sharingan. Even if he had, the didn't master it by the age of 8 and even then, 3 tomoe sharingan allows you to see up to a certain point. MS shows more, EMS shows even more etc.
> 
> I highly doubt reading the tablet with 1 or 2 tomoe sharingan gave Itachi the wisdom Hiruzen was talking about. If t hat was the case, then every adult Uchiha in the clan would be wiser than Itachi was. The way Hiruzen described it sounded completely different than what you are making out to be.


Actually, I was talking about a combination of the two. If it were as you're implying it then we would expect quite a few shinobi, even fodders, to have Hokage-level wisdom; in which case as an example of portrayal it wouldn't stand out very much. However, if you combine Itachi's acute ability to perceive and interpret his surroundings with the level-high level knowledge at his disposal (Uchiha tablet, other teachings available in the Hidden Leaf Village, etc.) then you could get something like Hokage-level wisdom. However, simply having an acute ability to perceive and interpret surrounding doesn't exactly seem all that remarkable.

Or put another way: someone could have an special innate ability towards understanding mathematical concepts, however, if all they're ever exposed to are the rudimentary principles and fundamentals, then they can't exactly be said to have "Mathematician-level wisdom", can they? They would need to be exposed to high-level *resources *that allow them to reach that higher-level of understanding.



> I don't know bro. I'll stand by my argument. I think any average joe would have gotten as far as Obito did with the kind of knowledge, guidance(zetsu was constantly with him) and resources he had access to. Not saying Obito is average BTW, what I am saying is, it doesn't take much more than that to accomplish what he did.


Again, what guidance? I just showed you two panels where Mads eludes to Obito's ability to plan/ strategize (at a young age keep in mind) and where BZ goes to Obito for further direction after shit went off course.

Maybe we considering different things here. Is Obito a natural genius like a Kakashi, Itachi, or Shikamura? Absolutely not. But you can't possibly tell me your average joe would have been able to: utilize Mokuton (and be complimented on it from Zetsu), learn the Uchiha Kinjutsu, Six Path's Jutsu, Inyouton jutsu, run an S-Rank criminal organization for a number of years, and display the on-the-spot thinking that he did. Is Obito an off-the-charts 5 like the aforementioned would be, no. But I think he's demonstrated enough to warrant it.

Anyway, I can tell you probably aren't going to change your mind. And again, I wouldn't be stunned if he got something like a 4.5, but a 5 to me seems perfectly justified (or maybe I'm just being a homer  IDK).


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## MS81 (Oct 18, 2014)

StickaStick said:


> You're talking about a situation where Obito had to (somehow) discover the Curse Seal and implement a plan to remove the it without BZ noticing and without being killed in the process, since the only way to do it apparently was by having it physically removed. Consider the circumstances at play. If this doesn't all require a high-level of intelligence, then what would you more aptly call it?
> 
> 
> Actually, I was talking about a combination of the two. If it were as you're implying it then we would expect quite a few shinobi, even fodders, to have Hokage-level wisdom; in which case as an example of portrayal it wouldn't stand out very much. However, if you combine Itachi's acute ability to perceive and interpret his surroundings with the level-high level knowledge at his disposal (Uchiha tablet, other teachings available in the Hidden Leaf Village, etc.) then you could get something like Hokage-level wisdom. However, simply having an acute ability to perceive and interpret surrounding doesn't exactly seem all that remarkable.
> ...



I for one think Obito deserves and 4.5/5 for intelligence. An 4.5 seems more realistic since Kakashi one up him when it comes to intelligence!!!


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Oct 18, 2014)

Obito obviously has a 5/5 intelligence. I mean how else would you get a genius boy to believe you are Madara Uchiha after randomly meeting him in the woods? 

Also Obito has been working from the shadows and was only ever really exposed because he chose to leave the shadows. Also Minato, someone who saw him, had to tell Naruto about him. 

Then there's the fact that he managed to trick the whole shinobi world into starting a war by playing the tole as Madara Uchiha. Also his battle smarts were among the best in the manga.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 18, 2014)

StickaStick said:


> You're talking about a situation where Obito had to (somehow) discover the Curse Seal and implement a plan to remove the it without BZ noticing and without being killed in the process, since the only way to do it apparently was by having it physically removed. Consider the circumstances at play. If this doesn't all require a high-level of intelligence, then what would you more aptly call it?



I really don't know how someone would figure they have a curse seal on their heart, I am not familiar with the concept. Although I really don't see how that can be connected to intelligence. You may argue that the way he planned to get it removed may have required some intelligence, so that he could get rid of it without madara knowing it but, man, the dude got himself stabbed through the heart to be able to do that.




> Actually, I was talking about a combination of the two. If it were as you're implying it then we would expect quite a few shinobi, even fodders, to have Hokage-level wisdom; in which case as an example of portrayal it wouldn't stand out very much. However, if you combine Itachi's acute ability to perceive and interpret his surroundings with the level-high level knowledge at his disposal (Uchiha tablet, other teachings available in the Hidden Leaf Village, etc.) then you could get something like Hokage-level wisdom. However, simply having an acute ability to perceive and interpret surrounding doesn't exactly seem all that remarkable.


Sure Itachi had great deal of knowledge. But to me, it seemed like, that knowledge came to Itachi because he percieved things differently and specifically went after it.

In Obito's case, some dude gave all of them to him and manipulated him into executing a plan with the resources he left for him.



> Or put another way: someone could have an special innate ability towards understanding mathematical concepts, however, if all they're ever exposed to are the rudimentary principles and fundamentals, then they can't exactly be said to have "Mathematician-level wisdom", can they? They would need to be exposed to high-level *resources *that allow them to reach that higher-level of understanding.


I agree, I am not saying that Itachi didn't possess any exclusive knowledge, but then, one may argue how much knowledge could a 7 year old could have ? That alone shows that Itachi was an extraordinary 7 year old.

Because to be able to understand, persue and absorb so much knowledge @ that age, you should have really high IQ. 


> Again, what guidance? I just showed you two panels where Mads eludes to Obito's ability to plan/ strategize (at a young age keep in mind) and where BZ goes to Obito for further direction after shit went off course.


Umm zetsu  ?

poor bastard
He basically help Obito set up everything.




> Maybe we considering different things here. Is Obito a natural genius like a Kakashi, Itachi, or Shikamura? Absolutely not. But you can't possibly tell me your average joe would have been able to: utilize Mokuton (and be complimented on it from Zetsu), learn the Uchiha Kinjutsu, Six Path's Jutsu, Inyouton jutsu, run an S-Rank criminal organization for a number of years, and display the on-the-spot thinking that he did. Is Obito an off-the-charts 5 like the aforementioned would be, no. But I think he's demonstrated enough to warrant it.
> 
> Anyway, I can tell you probably aren't going to change your mind. And again, I wouldn't be stunned if he got something like a 4.5, but a 5 to me seems perfectly justified (or maybe I'm just being a homer  IDK).



Well to be fair, I think Obito is more like Naruto, overcoming obstacles through willpower(will of Rin in his case), rather than skill or intelligence. If he can't open a locked door, he is going to punch it, rather than go look for the key or find a way to unlock it.

 I can't grasp how a chuunin level mediocre shinobi like Obito could go that far. And Kishimoto did no attempt to justify that.

Remember the time he was being overcome by Juubi's will ? He thought about Rin and voila, he controlled Juubi. 

Madara also tried to absorb Juubi, and he immediately could without any hardship.


----------



## StickaStick (Oct 18, 2014)

MS81 said:


> I for one think Obito deserves and 4.5/5 for intelligence. An 4.5 seems more realistic since Kakashi one up him when it comes to intelligence!!!


Well, if Kakashi is the standard then you have quite a few guys (like pretty much anyone else) who can't get a 5 since he is probably the most overall intelligence character in the manga 

But let's not pretend Obito didn't play Kakashi like a fiddle in their fight in Kamuiland and didn't pretty much save Naruto and Sasuke with his on-the-spot thinking while Kakashi was feeling worthless against Mads and Kaguya 



Grimmjowsensei said:


> I really don't know how someone would figure they have a curse seal on their heart


Yes, now what does this tell you about the wits needs to do so? 



> but, man, the dude got himself stabbed through the heart to be able to do that.


Which was pretty much the only way it could have been done based on how the Seal functions. I don't know how someone can't see that it would require delicate planning to accomplish when (1) you could die in the process, and (2) you have someone watching over you who would try to prevent it.



> Sure Itachi had great deal of knowledge. But to me, it seemed like, that knowledge came to Itachi because he percieved things differently and specifically went after it.
> 
> In Obito's case, some dude gave all of them to him and manipulated him into executing a plan with the resources he left for him.


Seems like we're repeating ourselves here. I would respond with the same thing as in my last post.



> I agree, I am not saying that Itachi didn't possess any exclusive knowledge, but then, one may argue how much knowledge could a 7 year old could have ? That alone shows that Itachi was an extraordinary 7 year old.


You talked about having resources. I'm explaining how Itachi (Kakashi, et al.) also had resources.



> Because to be able to understand, persue and *absorb so much knowledge @ that age, you should have really high IQ.*


So why exactly doesn't this apply to young Obito who had to absorb the information of Uchiha Kinjutsu, Six Path's jutsu, Inyouton jutsu, Mokuton, and Infinite Tsukuyomi all in a very short period of time? 



> Umm zetsu  ?
> 
> poor bastard
> He basically help Obito set up everything.


That's an example of Zetsu hand-holding Obito as he was just starting out. It doesn't contradict the panels I showed you in the slightest; in fact, he have an outright statement from Mads eluding to Obito's ability to plan. Like, what does Zetsu telling Obito who Nagato is having anything to do with intelligence? Would Itachi, et al. have magically known that was Nagato with Mads' Rinnegan?



> Well to be fair, I think Obito is more like Naruto, overcoming obstacles through willpower(will of Rin in his case), rather than skill or intelligence. If he can't open a locked door, he is going to punch it, rather than go look for the key or find a way to unlock it.
> 
> I can't grasp how a chuunin level mediocre shinobi like Obito could go that far. And Kishimoto did no attempt to justify that.
> 
> ...


Will power only acts as a beneficial compliment. For example, it might give one the motivation to apply their intelligence; as opposed to those who naturally learn easily  but let all their potential go to waste. It doesn't magically make you intelligent and able to formulate plots and shit like that.


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## Divinstrosity (Oct 18, 2014)

AS USUAL, people are trying to downplay the Itachi hype, but picking apart statements that were meant to be taken at face value. 

It is clear Kishimoto has portrayed Itachi as a prodigy of prodigies. 

If there was only one statement that seemed extreme, that would be one thing. However, there are a number of statements about Itachi that seem a bit over-the-top. There are a no. of things about Itachi that seemed a bit over-the-top considering he's but a secondary character.

Even Itachi's portrayal in anime filler is that of a super prodigy. He can't even look bad in filler. lol. 

No matter the situation, Kishimoto doesn't allow Itachi to look but so bad. Even when he looks bad, you KNOW its going to be followed up w/ something that makes him look good. 

According to one of our translators, Kishimoto said he rather be, or liked Minato more than Itachi, because Itachi is too perfect. 

At this point, you have to just want to believe the hype means something other than what is stated. 

Have it how you want, I guess.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 18, 2014)

StickaStick said:


> Well, if Kakashi is the standard then you have quite a few guys (like pretty much anyone else) who can't get a 5 since he is probably the most overall intelligence character in the manga
> 
> But let's not pretend Obito didn't play Kakashi like a fiddle in their fight in Kamuiland and didn't pretty much save Naruto and Sasuke with his on-the-spot thinking while Kakashi was feeling worthless against Mads and Kaguya
> 
> ...




We are repeating ourselves. Each to his own I guess.

But like I already mentioned, I thought about it and I wouldn't be surprised if Obito got a 5 on int. Because Tsunade also has 5 on int and she isn't very knowledgeable or particularly smart(I know Tsunade fans will tear me apart for this). So ultimately we agree, Obito may have a 5 afterall.




Divinstrosity said:


> AS USUAL, people are trying to downplay the Itachi hype, but picking apart statements that were meant to be taken at face value.
> 
> It is clear Kishimoto has portrayed Itachi as a prodigy of prodigies.
> 
> ...



Thought like a Hokage @ 7 ? Well to be perfectly honest, thats ridiculous even by my standarts


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Oct 18, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Preta and Asura *are Kekkei Genkai* which are factored into the scores. Itachi, Kakashi... anyone with a Kekkei Genkai would have lower scores without their Kekkei Genkai.



You mean just like how Kakashi got low stamina cuz of his Kekkei Genkai? Yeah.. It's basically a take and give.. And you'd be lying if you say Itachi would get a lower Genjutsu score without the Sharingan seeing how someone like Kurenai got a perfect 5. 

But even then; Preta and Asura are Kekkei Genkai *Jutsu *.. 

You can even see him calling out his attacks..

poor bastard
poor bastard

If every Kekkei Genkai Jutsu counts into the stats, Itachi should also get a 5 in strength if we're considering Susano's strength.. But that'd be wrong and stupid quite frankly.. 



> Also how did you make the link between stamina and strength?



I am not linking them, I am linking their side-effects described by the manga.. 






> The Rinnegan didn't weaken his body; that was Madara's will. Also if you want to take it that way: the Rinnegan is also the the thing that rejuvenated his body too.



Exactly.. But does it permanently rejuvenate it? Even if it does; by the time he died he was weak.. The DB stats take into account the attributes at the time of death.. 

Not sure about the Madara thing tbh.. 





> Obito, Madara and Sasuke weren't stabbed synchronised with the Gedo Mazo like Nagato was. Nagato was the only user to synchronise with it.



If that's true, then that doesn't excuse his lower strength.. It just means his low strength didn't come naturally, but something(in this case syncing with gedo mazou) ignited it.. 

You can say he became weak because of "so and so", but you can't say he's not weak because of "so and so"..


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## Trojan (Oct 18, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Thought like a Hokage @ 7 ? Well to be perfectly honest, thats ridiculous even by my standarts



It's the perspective grim, the perspective. The only thing that statements is meant to be taken for is
itachi thinking of the village as a whole, rather than his clan only. 

There is nothing like "Hokage thinking" because other than protecting the village at any cost, the Hokages do not have the same mentality, and they think in different ways for different things. They ultimately agree on the value of the village. That's about it. It's itachi's fandom who exaggerated the fuck out of it.


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## Arles Celes (Oct 18, 2014)

Hussain said:


> and what are the areas that they are better than him?



When it comes to being scientists I guess...

Especially to stuff like experiments in the laboratory.

Though in the field of ninjutsu invention Minato did invent the rasengan which was the ultimate shaping ninjutsu. Hirashin was invented by Tobirama and his skill with seals was learned from Kushina.

Still, his usage of Hirashin in battle which required a strategic mind was quite good.


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## Trojan (Oct 18, 2014)

KKG DO count in the states, what does not count are things like

1- The Bijuus
2- the animals. I.E Akamaru, Shino's bugs...etc
3- Course seals...etc
4- pills, like the ones Choji eats...etc

If you go here


you'll find the original Japanese text and the translation. Go to the characters in Databook one where there are nots like
for 
Naruto:
NOTE: Please note the stamina and potential ability. Furthermore, it is impossible to measure the Nine-Tails' chakra.


Choji:
NOTE: When using his clan's, he can be expected to fight beyond his stats. When food comes into play, that ability goes up 

Shino:
NOTE: Like the parasitic destruction insects hidden inside his body, his true power is also wrapped in a veil of secrecy.

Kiba:
NOTE: When fighting together with Akamaru, Kiba's fighting ability will greatly exceed the above-mentioned data.

Kimmimaro/sound 4:
NOTE: This data is about his normal state.


As you can see, those stuff do not count. As for the Sharingan and other KKG, yes they are included.


Arles Celes said:


> When it comes to being scientists I guess...
> 
> Especially to stuff like experiments in the laboratory.
> 
> ...




Well, since he does not do those experiments, yes, they are batter...

- Tobirama invented the FTG indeed, but Minato invented the S/T barrier, his long-named jutsu as well, and made it better overall as Tobirama admitted that
he's inferior to him.

Even the sealing jutsus, Minato was the first one to use the SF for example, and no Uzumaki has ever used it before. 
(The only ones sealed in it were the Hokages, Kurama, and Oro's hand)
and he does not even need any mask.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Oct 18, 2014)

Khris said:


> If every Kekkei Genkai Jutsu counts into the stats, Itachi should also get a 5 in strength if we're considering Susano's strength.. But that'd be wrong and stupid quite frankly..



Except when the databook says Sasuke's scores will improve because he's got the MS (as I have told you several times now), it means Kekkei Genkai are included.

Also Susanoo strength would *never* count towards Itachi's physical strength because of how the strength statistic is measured. Conveniently Asura users have its function built into that measurement. 



> Exactly.. But does it permanently rejuvenate it? Even if it does; by the time he died he was weak.. The DB stats take into account the attributes at the time of death..
> 
> Not sure about the Madara thing tbh..



But we were shown that he has the capability to revive himself, that would be factored in. Databook stats take into account performance; Nagato was a chakra beast so Edo Tensei isn't a super buff like in Itachi's case.

We have the visuals to support the Madara point. 



> If that's true, then that doesn't excuse his lower strength.. It just means his low strength didn't come naturally, but something(in this case syncing with gedo mazou) ignited it..
> 
> You can say he became weak because of "so and so", but you can't say he's not weak because of "so and so"..



The strength won't be an issue: Asura Path. 

You're claiming the physical strength point despite us seeing Nagato demonstrate above average physical strength.


----------



## Trojan (Oct 18, 2014)

Sasuke:
NOTE: He learned Kakashi's original technique and his ability with the Sharingan continues to progress. He has outstanding talent, gathering high expectations from the village of Konoha.

Haku:
NOTE: The hidden potential of his blood is certainly a threat. He keeps fighting, as if he is fighting against his tragic fate…

Kakashi:
NOTE: The height of Kakashi's overall ability stands out, but one should pay attention to the height of his potential ability. There is still room for him to progress.

unlike those mentioned earlier, we see those with Sharingan/Ice KKG there is no note about them not being included whatsoever.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Oct 18, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Except when the databook says Sasuke's scores will improve because he's got the MS (as I have told you several times now), it means Kekkei Genkai are included.



If you're gonna take that literally? Then you're right, but this is no different than saying Naruto's going to improve because of Sage Mode + The Bijuu Chakra even tho they're both no KG.. 

And I already explained that it's a give and take kind of thing.. If GK is included that means the side-effects are included as well like Kakashi.. 

It's been clearly stated that the cause of Kakashi's low stamina is his Sharingan.. 




> But we were shown that he has the capability to revive himself, that would be factored in.



Why? Why is it factored in? There's no implication that it should.. We have more than one Jutsu that can revive/heal/absorb chakra for many characters, so why would it factor here and not others..

Orochimaru's Jutsu can literally reborn himself to another body every 2 years.. Yet he gets a 3.5 in Stamina.. Tsunade's Creation Rebirth can regenerate her and give her a chakra boost, yet she has a 4 in Stamina and so on..

Why is Nagato different? Seems like a forced strawman to me.. 

Again I emphasize that his techniques are KG Jutsus and not KG elements.. 




> We have the visuals to support the Madara point.



Where?



> The strength won't be an issue: Asura Path.
> 
> You're claiming the physical strength point despite us seeing Nagato demonstrate above average physical strength.



No.. We see Nagato using a Jutsu that allowed him to demonstrate above average physical strength. That's a key different..


But you know what? I'll gladly wait and see, even tho it's not going to go anywhere.. Kishi has retconned his manga again and again(see the speed discussion we had a few pages back), Kishi can put any number he wants and it wont change anything.. So this is a rather asinine debate on both our parts..


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Oct 18, 2014)

Khris said:


> If you're gonna take that literally? Then you're right, but this is no different than saying Naruto's going to improve because of Sage Mode + The Bijuu Chakra even tho they're both no KG..
> 
> And I already explained that it's a give and take kind of thing.. If GK is included that means the side-effects are included as well like Kakashi..
> 
> It's been clearly stated that the cause of Kakashi's low stamina is his Sharingan..



Sage Mode and Bijuu chakra aren't Kekkei Genkai, as you noted. However we have the actual databook saying a Kekkei Genkai would improve Sasuke's scores. There is no escaping that.

You explained _poorly_ why it is a give and take thing because that means I should ignore the databook's comment. The Kakashi part makes sense because the Sharingan always takes a chunk of his chakra.




> Why? Why is it factored in? There's no implication that it should.. We have more than one Jutsu that can revive/heal/absorb chakra for many characters, so why would it factor here and not others..
> 
> Orochimaru's Jutsu can literally reborn himself to another body every 2 years.. Yet he gets a 3.5 in Stamina.. Tsunade's Creation Rebirth can regenerate her and give her a chakra boost, yet she has a 4 in Stamina and so on..
> 
> ...



It isn't a stretch to believe Orochimaru's vessel determines his stamina; he goes into their body.

You're hardly making any sense. It is really simple: Nagato was emaciated due to chakra depletion; he easily rejuvenated himself by absorbing chakra. Why are you complicating such a straightforward concept?

Kekkei Genkai *in general* are factored in. The Mangekyou Sharingan, which would improve Sasuke's scores, is a Kekkei Genkai like the Rinnegan. Apparently it has aspects to improve his stats, probably Genjutsu. So the Rinnegan, the highest form of the Sharingan, obviously has the same benefit, but it can improve more stats.




> Where?



Look at where the stakes appeared from when Nagato summoned them. Then look at where they appeared when Madara showed it to Obito.



> No.. We see Nagato using a Jutsu that allowed him to demonstrate above average physical strength. That's a key different..



We just saw Nagato grow extra arms. An attribute of the power something that can give you immense strength, like we saw with Jiraiya. But Nagato didn't do anything fancy, he literally held Bee up. 



> But you know what? I'll gladly wait and see, even tho it's not going to go anywhere.. Kishi has retconned his manga again and again(see the speed discussion we had a few pages back), Kishi can put any number he wants and it wont change anything.. So this is a rather asinine debate on both our parts..



I don't recall him retconning things.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 18, 2014)

Hussain said:


> It's the perspective grim, the perspective. The only thing that statements is meant to be taken for is
> itachi thinking of the village as a whole, rather than his clan only.
> 
> There is nothing like "Hokage thinking" because other than protecting the village at any cost, the Hokages do not have the same mentality, and they think in different ways for different things. They ultimately agree on the value of the village. That's about it. It's itachi's fandom who exaggerated the fuck out of it.



I suggest you re-read that chapter. Without rage tears this time. 

 The statement encompassess a much broader definition than just the mindset to protect the village : 

poor bastard

None is exaggerating anything here. You are trying to downplay it and failing as always.


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Oct 18, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> I suggest you re-read that chapter. Without rage tears this time.
> 
> The statement encompassess a much broader definition than just the mindset to protect the village :
> 
> ...



How do you process that panel?

It just means Itachi wanted to protect the village and keep peace in the shinobi world. 
Now do you realise that Hokage tend to think about protecting Konoha and maintaining peace in the shinobi world for the initial goal of protecting Konoha, right?


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Oct 18, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Sage Mode and Bijuu chakra aren't Kekkei Genkai, as you noted. However we have the actual databook saying a Kekkei Genkai would improve Sasuke's scores. There is no escaping that.



You're taking those Databook notes literally.. They're nothing more than hype tools.. 



> You explained _poorly_ why it is a give and take thing because that means I should ignore the databook's comment. The Kakashi part makes sense because the Sharingan always takes a chunk of his chakra.



What? No.. Just no.. Takes a chunk of Chakra =/= naturally low stamina..

It's one thing if someone has a normal capacity of chakra but their Jutsu take a lot of chakra, but another when their capacity is just naturally low.. 

Itachi(2.5) had lower stamina than Sasuke(3.5) when they fought but he actually outlasted him in their fight while it's known for sure that the MS Jutsus take a load of Chakra to use... This means that Sasuke still used up more Chakra than Itachi, by a lot.. 

Now to my point: Itachi didn't have naturally low stamina because his MS Jutsus took a load of chakra to use, he had naturally low stamina because of his disease.. 

Using up a lot of chakra in your life time doesn't deteriorate your natural stamina, it doesn't work like that.. 

As far as I know at least..



> It isn't a stretch to believe Orochimaru's vessel determines his stamina; he goes into their body.



But that would be flat out assumption..



> You're hardly making any sense. It is really simple: *Nagato was emaciated due to chakra depletion*; he easily rejuvenated himself by absorbing chakra. Why are you complicating such a straightforward concept?



Proof of the bolded.. There's no way you convince me that Kakashi's naturally low stamina is because of his constant chakra usage throughout his lifetime.. That's absurd.. 



> Kekkei Genkai *in general* are factored in. The Mangekyou Sharingan, which would improve Sasuke's scores, is a Kekkei Genkai like the Rinnegan. Apparently it has aspects to improve his stats, probably Genjutsu. So the Rinnegan, the highest form of the Sharingan, obviously has the same benefit, but it can improve more stats.



You're still sticking with those Jutsu as natural elements of the Rinnegan and not Jutsu not matter what huh?

Fine.. I'll let it slide.. Nothing I can say that can convince you otherwise.. 



> Look at where the stakes appeared from when Nagato summoned them. Then look at where they appeared when Madara showed it to Obito.



So there's no solid evidence? Okay then.. 




> We just saw Nagato grow extra arms. An attribute of the power something that can give you immense strength, like we saw with Jiraiya. But Nagato didn't do anything fancy, he literally held Bee up.



He shouted "Asura Path", that's a clear implication of a Jutsu in use.. 



> I don't recall him retconning things.



Quote of the year right here..


----------



## Trojan (Oct 18, 2014)

@Grimmjowsensei

O.K, I tried to find takl post about the translation, but couldn't find it. 
I don't feel like wasting more time looking for it, so whatever makes you happy. @>@

I really don't care at this point.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 18, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> How do you process that panel?
> 
> It just means Itachi wanted to protect the village and keep peace in the shinobi world.
> Now do you realise that Hokage tend to think about protecting Konoha and maintaining peace in the shinobi world for the initial goal of protecting Konoha, right?



Every konoha shinobi wants to protect their village.

Seriously, does Kishimoto really need to lower the IQ level of this manga more than it already is ? Come on lol



Hussain said:


> @Grimmjowsensei
> 
> O.K, I tried to find takl post about the translation, but couldn't find it.
> I don't feel like wasting more time looking for it, so whatever makes you happy. @>@
> ...



Takl translation won't change the context of that page. But yeah, whatever. You go look up some Minato hype or something. Oh wait you can't. There hasn't been any since chapter 370 something


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Oct 18, 2014)

Khris said:


> You're taking those Databook notes literally.. They're nothing more than hype tools..



That was a databook statement, you're dismissing it for some reason.



> What? No.. Just no.. Takes a chunk of Chakra =/= naturally low stamina..



Performance based. Clearly his stamina performance is deterred with an eye that takes a chunk of chakra.



> Itachi(2.5) had lower stamina than Sasuke(3.5) when they fought but he actually outlasted him in their fight while it's known for sure that the MS Jutsus take a load of Chakra to use... This means that Sasuke still used up more Chakra than Itachi, by a lot..
> 
> Now to my point: Itachi didn't have naturally low stamina because his MS Jutsus took a load of chakra to use, he had naturally low stamina because of his disease..
> 
> ...



Sasuke used more chakra taxing jutsu more often. The only taxing thing Itachi did was his final seal and the MS.

Itachi had no low stamina because of his disease; he's not Kimimaro. Itachi's disease just made him cough blood and get hit by a shuriken. As the manga showed and mentioned.



> You're still sticking with those Jutsu as natural elements of the Rinnegan and not Jutsu not matter what huh?
> 
> Fine.. I'll let it slide.. Nothing I can say that can convince you otherwise..



The part of the jutsu that's a jutsu are rockets and missile arms. All Nagato did was grow extra arms, that was literally it. 



> So there's no solid evidence? Okay then..



The link is there, now it just depends if you want to see it.



> He shouted "Asura Path", that's a clear implication of a Jutsu in use..



And what did he do? Fancy rockets? No, he literally grew arms to hold Bee up, that was it.



> Quote of the year right here..



When people in this forum say "retcon" with this manga, it tends to be with matters they chose to overlook. When they get proved wrong they call "retcon".



Grimmjowsensei said:


> Every konoha shinobi wants to protect their village.
> 
> Seriously, does Kishimoto really need to lower the IQ level of this manga more than as it is ? Come on lol



Just because it is Itachi, it doesn't mean you should assume that page has extra meaning. Every Hokage just wants to protect the village, it is why they are appointed. Every Konoha shinobi wants to protect Konoha, but Hokage wants that _while_ looking at the bigger picture. Itachi was capable of the latter when he was younger.

That's it. There is nothing mystical about the "he thought like a Hokage" like you're trying to superimpose.


----------



## Trojan (Oct 18, 2014)

I was looking at the 3rd Databook just now, and I saw this one


I think this means he's very good at taijutsu.


----------



## Trojan (Oct 18, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Oh wait you can't. There hasn't been any since chapter 370 something


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Oct 18, 2014)

Tbh, Itachi's Hokage comment isn't hype at all. I don't see why people think it is, or why it will impact his ratings. 

I think we should get over the fact that characters who were rated in DB3 are very likely going to be out shined by the ones in the final databook. I expect DB4 to have a number of perfect stats. 

I reckon Naruto and Sasuke will have drastic improvements considering developments such as SM/Kurama/Six Paths/Rinnegan/EMS.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 18, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Just because it is Itachi, it doesn't mean you should assume that page has extra meaning. Every Hokage just wants to protect the village, it is why they are appointed. Every Konoha shinobi wants to protect Konoha, but Hokage wants that _while_ looking at the bigger picture. Itachi was capable of the latter when he was younger.
> 
> That's it. There is nothing mystical about the "he thought like a Hokage" like you're trying to superimpose.



No one said the page has extra meaning. 

It doesn't just say he can think like a Hokage as a 7 year old(which is one of the biggest hypes there is), it also explains *why* he could think like a Hokage @ that age.



Hussain said:


> I was looking at the 3rd Databook just now, and I saw this one
> 
> 
> I think this means he's very good at taijutsu.



4.5 Tai confirmed


----------



## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Oct 18, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> 4.5 Tai confirmed



More like 5 

"Amazing" is a strong word


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 18, 2014)

RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki said:


> More like 5
> 
> "Amazing" is a strong word





4.5 confirmed


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Oct 18, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> No one said the page has extra meaning.
> 
> It doesn't just say he can think like a Hokage as a 7 year old(which is one of the biggest hypes there is), it also explains *why* he could think like a Hokage @ that age.



Not hype at all, it just confirms what we knew about Itachi's thought process. All that page tells us is that he thought like that for a long time.


----------



## Vice (Oct 18, 2014)

Amazing > very skilled

Just saying.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 18, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Not hype at all, it just confirms what we knew about Itachi's thought process. All that page tells us is that he thought like that for a long time.



It is hype, unless you think that kind of wisdom and intelligence is normal for a 7 year old.
Protip in case you don't know the answer : It is not.



Vice said:


> Amazing > very skilled
> 
> Just saying.



Amazing sounds a bit more hyperbolic I agree. But still...

4.5 is pretty much confirmed.


----------



## Kyu (Oct 18, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Oh wait you can't. There hasn't been any since chapter 370 something



Raikage was practically sucking Minato's cock around chapter 540.

Then we have Kurama/Tobirama/Hiruzen constantly praising his abilities not even fifty chapters ago.


----------



## Trojan (Oct 18, 2014)

Kyu said:


> Raikage was practically sucking Minato's cock around chapter 540.
> 
> Then we have Kurama/Tobirama/Hiruzen constantly praising his abilities not even fifty chapters ago.



you forgot Hagoromo. 
and the child. 

fuck, even itachi.


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Oct 18, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> It is hype, unless you think that kind of wisdom and intelligence is normal for a 7 year old.
> Protip in case you don't know the answer : It is not.



Read my post again. I think you're trying too hard to count it as hype.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Oct 18, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> That was a databook statement, you're dismissing it for some reason.



Same reason why people dismissed the statement about Amaterasu being hotter than the sun.. It was blind hype.. 



> Performance based. Clearly his stamina performance is deterred with an eye that takes a chunk of chakra.



*Clearly *it's the same thing with Sasuke right? 



> Sasuke used more chakra taxing jutsu more often. The only taxing thing Itachi did was his final seal and the MS.



>Only taxing Jutsu were final seal and MS

As if those are e-ranked shuriken Jutsu.. Hypocrisy much?



> Itachi had no low stamina because of his disease; he's not Kimimaro. Itachi's disease just made him cough blood and get hit by a shuriken. As the manga showed and mentioned.



So the disease did factor in his Speed (he had a 5 but couldn't dodge the shuriken Jutsu) but didn't factor in his Stamina(had 2.5)?

Riiight...



> The part of the jutsu that's a jutsu are rockets and missile arms. All Nagato did was grow extra arms, that was literally it.



So the paths aren't Jutsus? I wonder how they're triggered.. 



> The link is there, now it just depends if you want to see it.



Give me a panel stating this and I'll digress.. 



> And what did he do? Fancy rockets? No, he literally grew arms to hold Bee up, that was it.



Just as Preta was used(as a Jutsu), Asura was used as Jutsu.. Unless you can convince me that Preta and Asura are automatically triggered.. 



> When people in this forum say "retcon" with this manga, it tends to be with matters they chose to overlook. When they get proved wrong they call "retcon".



Passive Aggressive much?


----------



## Rosi (Oct 18, 2014)

Obito

Ninjutsu- ∞
Taijutsu- ∞
Genjutsu- ∞
Intelligence-∞
Strength- ∞
Speed- ∞
Stamina- ∞
Hand seal- ∞
Total - ∞


----------



## Trojan (Oct 18, 2014)

Rosi said:


> Obito
> 
> Ninjutsu- ∞
> Taijutsu- ∞
> ...



Do I see negatives next to the infinity?


----------



## Vice (Oct 18, 2014)

Rosi said:


> Obito
> 
> Ninjutsu- ∞
> Taijutsu- ∞
> ...



So basically the Kenpachi of Naruto?


----------



## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Oct 18, 2014)

Vice said:


> Amazing > very skilled
> 
> Just saying.


I was about to say the same thing. 


Grimmjowsensei said:


> It is hype, unless you think that kind of wisdom and intelligence is normal for a 7 year old.
> Protip in case you don't know the answer : It is not.
> 
> 
> ...



I remember Naruto matching Edo itachi in taijutsu, I wouldn't say he's the best. Very good otherwise. And that's with the sharingan giving him precognition and ability to read his opponents movements. Compare that to characters without sharingan yet still have high level taijutsu. 

Unlike some 'amazing' individuals


----------



## StickaStick (Oct 18, 2014)

Honestly, trying to analyze Hiruzen's statement is looking too closely into it. Kishi obviously intended it to be a note-worthy wank statement.



Rosi said:


> Obito
> 
> Ninjutsu- ∞
> Taijutsu- ∞
> ...



Now that's more like it


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 19, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Read my post again. I think you're trying too hard to count it as hype.



Its not just hype, it is one of the biggest there is. Considering No one in the manga has a similar hype. 

7 year old with the reasoning of a Hokage ? Man, like I said, that is just ridicilous. It clearly shows Itachi was a genius among geniuses.



RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki said:


> I was about to say the same thing.
> 
> 
> I remember Naruto matching Edo itachi in taijutsu, I wouldn't say he's the best. Very good otherwise. And that's with the sharingan giving him precognition and ability to read his opponents movements. Compare that to characters without sharingan yet still have high level taijutsu.
> ...



If you are going by feats, Minato has none.

Imo, he'd be lucky if he got a 4.5 with no display.

Except for Hiruzen, all shinobi who have 5's in taijutsu are specialists.


----------



## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Oct 19, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Its not just hype, it is one of the biggest there is. Considering No one in the manga has a similar hype.
> 
> 7 year old with the reasoning of a Hokage ? Man, like I said, that is just ridicilous. It clearly shows Itachi was a genius among geniuses.
> 
> ...



Feats aren't that important (especially when the databook is concerned) it's about what kishi thinks and knows about his creations. Both minato and Tobirama have zero taijutsu feats, but they're both close range fighters that utilise their speed, agility and reflexes during encounters. Minato fought Ay (a taijutsu specialist) lots of times and was never defeated judging by Ay's hype. Taijutsu wise, their swiftness alone would overwhelm opponents. 

Orochimaru has 5 in genjutsu, yet no feats, Hiruzen 5 in taijutsu, get no real feats, Hiashi having a 5 in handsigns (do Hyuuga even use handsigns?) like you have already proven, there are exceptions.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 19, 2014)

RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki said:


> *Feats aren't that important *(especially when the databook is concerned) it's about what kishi thinks and knows about his creations.
> Both minato and Tobirama have zero taijutsu feats, but they're both close range fighters that utilise their speed, agility and reflexes during encounters. Minato fought Ay (a taijutsu specialist) lots of times and was never defeated judging by Ay's hype. Taijutsu wise, their swiftness alone would overwhelm opponents.



You brought it up.



> Orochimaru has 5 in genjutsu, yet no feats, Hiruzen 5 in taijutsu, get no real feats, Hiashi having a 5 in handsigns (do Hyuuga even use handsigns?) like you have already proven, there are exceptions.



Hiruzen has taijtusu feats. Enma seems like a major part of his fighting style, its not a stretch to think that he has exceptional taijutsu skill.

Minato may end up having a 5 in taijutsu, because of his GOAT hype. But not because of that statement Hussain posted. That'd give him a 4.5 @ most.


----------



## Turrin (Oct 19, 2014)

I wonder what people think Konan's stats will be.

Her 600 Billion Explosive Tag feat seems to suggest a 5 in Ninjutsu and 5 in Stamina. Her running through many simulations and developing counter strategies to Obito's Kamui would also seem to suggest a high Intel stat and her Genjutsu on the Ame Fodder would suggest a high Genjutsu stat. Everyone seems to get a high stat in seals after a certain point. It seems doubtful that her speed would be lower than a 3.5, but it could be higher, given her reacting to KSM-Naruto. Str and Tai are the areas where she may be deficient, but nothing indicates a terrible deficiency there ether.  

She seems like a candidate for someone who could be one of the more surprising stat totals.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 19, 2014)

Turrin said:


> I wonder what people think Konan's stats will be.
> 
> Her 600 Billion Explosive Tag feat seems to suggest a 5 in Ninjutsu and 5 in Stamina. Her running through many simulations and developing counter strategies to Obito's Kamui would also seem to suggest a high Intel stat and her Genjutsu on the Ame Fodder would suggest a high Genjutsu stat. Everyone seems to get a high stat in seals after a certain point. It seems doubtful that her speed would be lower than a 3.5, but it could be higher, given her reacting to KSM-Naruto. Str and Tai are the areas where she may be deficient, but nothing indicates a terrible deficiency there ether.
> 
> She seems like a candidate for someone who could be one of the more surprising stat totals.



Nin : 5
Tai : 3
Gen : 3.5
Int : 4.5
Str : 2.5
Spd : 3.5
sta : 4.5
seal : 5


----------



## Turrin (Oct 19, 2014)

What's up with the question marks, stats, and shit. And the poorly fitted panel in the bottom left hand corner of Sasuke's page.  Is this suppose to be some half completed design? Where did you even get this?


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Oct 19, 2014)

Personally I am most interested in the senju bros.. So I'll have a crack at those..

*Hashirama*
Nin: 5
Tai: 5
Gen: 5
Int: 3
Str: 5
Sta: 5
Sel: 5

Total: 38

*Tobirama*
Nin: 5
Tai: 4.5
Gen: 4.5
Int: 5
Str: 4.5
Sta: 4.5
Sel: 4.5

Total: 37


----------



## SaiST (Oct 19, 2014)

ℜai said:


> Fake or real.


Seems legit. Is that from an advert in this week's Jump?


----------



## Turrin (Oct 19, 2014)

Here's my issue with it being real. Why is the "Profile" in english


----------



## Vice (Oct 19, 2014)

So if this is real it does look like the stat system got an overhaul. It looks like a 5-point system instead of an 8-point one.


----------



## Velocity (Oct 19, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Here's my issue with it being real. Why is the "Profile" in english



It's not exactly unheard of for certain words in Japanese media to be displayed in English. The new Guilty Gear game, for example, has an English announcer even though all the menus and characters are Japanese. As for all the question marks... It's a preview. They're not going to show the full double page spread of one of the most popular characters in the manga.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Oct 19, 2014)

Kishi removed taijutsu, stamina and strength to give Itachi a more perfect score.. Heard it here first


----------



## Hexa (Oct 19, 2014)

I guess the stats just tell what the character is particularly good at (which really was exactly what the old stats were for too).

Is the center bit saying whether characters are "yin" or "yang" types?


----------



## Turrin (Oct 19, 2014)

Velocity said:


> It's not exactly unheard of for certain words in Japanese media to be displayed in English. The new Guilty Gear game, for example, has an English announcer even though all the menus and characters are Japanese. As for all the question marks... It's a preview. They're not going to show the full double page spread of one of the most popular characters in the manga.


I'm not saying it's impossible, but It also seems extremely strange to me that just randomly the only english is the profile header. It's not like there is some theme of all the headers being in english or we see english being used in other areas, or that it even makes sense for "profile" to be made english. I mean what purpose does that serve. 

Again it's possible it just makes me raise an eyebrow. The fact that Rai disappeared after posting it and a Google image search returns no results also makes me raise an eyebrow



Khris said:


> Kishi removed taijutsu, stamina and strength to give Itachi a more perfect score.. Heard it here first


Probably just a stand in graphic rather than overhaul of the system.


----------



## Vice (Oct 19, 2014)

Looking at it its hard to decipher what's going on as it looks completely filled. It wouldn't be crazy to think Sasuke would have a 5 in everything but that thing is hard to read with no context.


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## epyoncloud (Oct 19, 2014)

naruto uzumaki, intelligence 0


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## Velocity (Oct 19, 2014)

Hexa said:


> I guess the stats just tell what the character is particularly good at (which really was exactly what the old stats were for too).
> 
> Is the center bit saying whether characters are "yin" or "yang" types?



Looking at it, there are five icons there and Sasuke only has two "lit up". What if they're elemental affinities? Sasuke may have the Rinnegan now but his affinities are still with Katon and Raiton jutsu. That would also support your idea that the two in the middle are Inton and Yoton.


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## Hexa (Oct 19, 2014)

Velocity said:


> Looking at it, there are five icons there and Sasuke only has two "lit up". What if they're elemental affinities? Sasuke may have the Rinnegan now but his affinities are still with Katon and Raiton jutsu. That would also support your idea that the two in the middle are Inton and Yoton.



Yeah, I agree.  That makes a ton of sense.


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## Jizznificent (Oct 19, 2014)

when is this book coming out?


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## Vice (Oct 19, 2014)

Velocity said:


> Looking at it, there are five icons there and Sasuke only has two "lit up". What if they're elemental affinities? Sasuke may have the Rinnegan now but his affinities are still with Katon and Raiton jutsu. That would also support your idea that the two in the middle are Inton and Yoton.



Makes sense. Maybe one of the question mark panels is his stats?


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## Turrin (Oct 19, 2014)

@Rai 
Do you have this weeks jump and if so are there more pictures of the DB?

Edit: Would be really lame if the Stats are replaced with just a chart telling us what affinities a person has. Not that I wouldn't like to have both, but to get rid of the stats would be BS imo.


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## SaiST (Oct 19, 2014)

Jizznificent said:


> when is this book coming out?


Release date's November 4th. We should be getting scans within the following week.


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## Altair21 (Oct 19, 2014)

It doesn't even look like there's a stat system anymore based on that scan. They look like elemental symbols and there's 5 of them so perhaps it has something to do with the elements.


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## Turrin (Oct 19, 2014)

It's deffinately an affinity chart though:



Sasuke's has the top and left corner ones lit up, which on the affinity chart are indeed Raiton and Katon.



Altair21 said:


> It doesn't even look like there's a stat system anymore based on that scan. They look like elemental symbols and there's 5 of them so perhaps it has something to do with the elements.


Going to be really disappoint if this is true. Really hoping that there are both stats and affinity charts; or Sasuke just doesn't have stats because he's not measurable.

-----------


----------



## shintebukuro (Oct 19, 2014)

SaiST said:


> Release date's November 4th. We should be getting scans within the following week.



Really??

I'm excited if that's the case, but can you confirm it in any way? I remember when databooks 2 and 3 came out, and I don't particularly recall getting scans of them before the release date...but I guess I could just be remembering wrong.


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## Vice (Oct 19, 2014)

Lack of stats would be so disappointing.


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## Turrin (Oct 19, 2014)

Does anyone have a better quality scan of this, because i'm wondering what the updated profiles are like


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## Altair21 (Oct 19, 2014)

Why do you guys want stats so much anyway? They really don't mean much in the grand scheme of things.


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## Turrin (Oct 19, 2014)

Altair21 said:


> Why do you guys want stats so much anyway? They really don't mean much in the grand scheme of things.


Because they are a good source of information for what the author didn't have time to show. For characters that only had 1 brief battle they would be very interesting. I don't really care about getting them for characters that had a ton of fights, but for lesser seen characters like Kushina, Mito, Shisui, etc... they would be awesome.


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## Altair21 (Oct 19, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Because they are a good source of information for what the author didn't have time to show. For characters that only had 1 brief battle they would be very interesting. I don't really care about getting them for characters that had a ton of fights, but for lesser seen characters like Kushina, Mito, Shisui, etc... they would be awesome.



Well I'd rather have an explanation about their abilities than a stat chart. Stats don't say much really. I mean what's a 5 in genjutsu for Kurenai compared to shinobi like Itachi, Shisui, and Current Sasuke? Same with taijutsu. What's a 5 in taijutsu for Hiruzen compared to a shinobi like Guy? If they all get 5s then it doesn't really tell us much other than they were pretty good in that specific shinobi art


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## tari101190 (Oct 19, 2014)

I would like a different approach to stats. But I like the old stat system too.

I hope this new chart isn't simply about elements though. Unless that is included in addition to stats.


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Oct 19, 2014)

I'd also be bummed if Kishi removed the stats.. But I'd understand.. I mean Ukon = Madara in Ninjutsu is just so outta place


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## tari101190 (Oct 19, 2014)

Stats show mastery in a specific area, it doesn't gauge power.

For example:
Two guys with 5's for Ninjutsu are both experts. But the guy with more chakra powering his Jutsu wins obviously.


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Oct 19, 2014)

Not even.. 

Even if it's about mastery or expertise it doesn't make any sense.. 

Madara's skill, mastery, knowledge, etc.. far exceeds someone like Ukon who was literally a 1-Jutsu wonder.


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## tari101190 (Oct 19, 2014)

Ukon mastering his own specific jutsu to 100% and Madara mastering his own specific set of jutsu 100% doesn't mean they're the same.

They would both be experts in their own fields.

But we know for a fact Madara has a wider range of jutsu that he is an expert in than Ukon, plus he has jutsu which are perfect counters for Ukon, plus he is smarter, plus he has more chakra.

That's just my opinion though.


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## shintebukuro (Oct 19, 2014)

tari101190 said:


> Ukon mastering his own specific jutsu to 100% and Madara mastering his own specific set of jutsu 100% doesn't mean they're the same.
> 
> They would both be experts in their own fields.
> 
> But we know for a fact Madara has a wider range of jutsu that he is an expert in than Ukon, plus he has jutsu which are perfect counters for Ukon, plus he is smarter, plus he has more chakra.



Ukon is such a "master" at his specific jutsu, yet Naruto creating Fuuton: Rasen Shuriken is only a 4; he's not quite a master like Ukon yet, he's only pre-TS Kankurou level.

...

It doesn't make any sense no matter how you cut it. Kishi did not write the stats; a bunch of hacks did, for extra revenue, and they did such a shitty job on them that they're probably not going to continue any more.

Fuck the old stats. I first read the DB1's stats over 10 years ago and instantly knew they were garbage when I saw that Chouji had a higher ninjutsu stat than Sasuke. They have been meaningless since day one. The only time they make any sense is when you bust your balls trying to conjure up a bad excuse to justify them, and even that is a waste of time now that they're gone.


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## tari101190 (Oct 19, 2014)

Naruto had not yet mastered rasen shuirken past 50% when those stats came out, so why would Naruto have a 5/5? The 3rd databook doesn't cover when Naruto learn't Sage Mode.

The stats are fine.


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## Turrin (Oct 19, 2014)

Ukon got a 5 because he can manipulate Ninjutsu so meticulously that he can control shit at the protein level. There is nothing wrong with that. 



Altair21 said:


> Well I'd rather have an explanation about their abilities than a stat chart. Stats don't say much really.


I'd rather have explanations about their abilities than Stats, if I was forced to choose, however that's not the choice. Rather the choice here would be a chart detailing Affinities vs Stats, in which case I take stats over an affinity chart



> I mean what's a 5 in genjutsu for Kurenai compared to shinobi like Itachi, Shisui, and Current Sasuke? Same with taijutsu. What's a 5 in taijutsu for Hiruzen compared to a shinobi like Guy? If they all get 5s then it doesn't really tell us much other than they were pretty good in that specific shinobi art


It means exactly what it always does, that these shinobi are very skilled in those areas, but skill is not the only thing to consider. There are also techniques, quality of chakra, quantity of chakra, etc...



tari101190 said:


> The stats are fine.


The stats are fine, people that complain are ones that are but hurt that the stats don't reflect how good or how poor they feel a character should be in specific areas, w/o actually bothering to understand how the stats are suppose to be read. If the stats were removed it's not because they were faulty it's because Kishi and others didn't want children to get confused by them, because they don't read all the explanations that have been provided for the stats in the DB or previous DBs. Basically a kid isn't going to read what strength stat actually means or that it doesn't count power ups, so when Naruto gets a 4 in str or Sakura gets a 4, they are going to be like what the fuck and bitching and whine like you see people doing on this forum.

So ether they would need to remove the stats or compile a detailed list of how they should be read and still many wouldn't bother to read that list. So they may have just said fuck it and removed them.


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## shintebukuro (Oct 19, 2014)

tari101190 said:


> Naruto had not yet mastered rasen shuirken past 50% when those stats came out, so why would Naruto have a 5/5? The 3rd databook doesn't cover when Naruto learn't Sage Mode.
> 
> The stats are fine.



It doesn't matter whether it was 50% or 100%, Minato could not do it. Why would Minato be incapable of a feat of ninjutsu mastery beneath Kisame or Asuma (both 4.5), and only equivalent to a 15 year-old Kankurou?

The stats are not written by Kishimoto, and they're disappearing. They're not "fine."


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## Trojan (Oct 19, 2014)

Turrin said:


> What's up with the question marks, stats, and shit. And the poorly fitted panel in the bottom left hand corner of Sasuke's page.  Is this suppose to be some half completed design? Where did you even get this?



Maybe they don't want to reveal the text? 

*****
Never thought that I would even know Minato's element. 
that's awesome! 

Though I would be very disappointed if there is no stats.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 19, 2014)

Vice said:


> Lack of stats would be so disappointing.



We agree for the first time.

But yeah, without stats Databook is kinda useless. At least for new characters. Still though, we'll get shitton of jutsu descriptions and shit.



ℜai said:


> Fake or real.



Seems legit. Although it is probably just teaser material.


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## SaiST (Oct 19, 2014)

shintebukuro said:


> Really??
> 
> I'm excited if that's the case, but can you confirm it in any way? I remember when databooks 2 and 3 came out, and I don't particularly recall getting scans of them before the release date...but I guess I could just be remembering wrong.


I didn't mean within this next week, but the week following the book's release.

I'm sure others in Japan will start taking camshots and scanning right away, but I've got a second copy preordered to help out, just in case.


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## Trojan (Oct 19, 2014)

I just noticed something. 
under Sasuke's name, where they usually put the rank, there is "_" instead of gennin.kage...etc
perhaps that can make some of the fans learn that he will never be the Hokage?


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## Phemt (Oct 19, 2014)

Hahaha.

So you think there's going to be "Hokage" below Naruto's name?

Obviously not.


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## SaiST (Oct 19, 2014)

Would you two knuckleheads please stop?


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## ch1p (Oct 19, 2014)

The fourth databook includes until the end of the fourth war (probably its conclusion as well) and both Kushina and Jiraiya also don't have a rank in DB3. There is nothing to be concluded from not having a rank (he didn't have one in DB3 either). Naruto will probably be a genin still.

The affilition blurb is interesting though. It means Sasuke was never a Sound ninja (DB3 has him as a Leaf ninja too) and he won't be joining it by the end of the war either. In contraste, Orochimaru and Kabuto are Sound ninja, even though they were also Leaf ninja in the past.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 19, 2014)

I think its "..." because "genin" is too embarassing.


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## Trojan (Oct 19, 2014)

ch1p said:


> The fourth databook includes until the end of the fourth war (probably its conclusion as well) and both Kushina and Jiraiya also don't have a rank in DB3. There is nothing to be concluded from not having a rank (he didn't have one in DB3 either). Naruto will probably be a genin still.
> 
> The affilition blurb is interesting though. It means Sasuke was never a Sound ninja (DB3 has him as a Leaf ninja too) and he won't be joining it by the end of the war either. In contraste, Orochimaru and Kabuto are Sound ninja, even though they were also Leaf ninja in the past.



Kushina barely appeared in one scan back then, and the story was still in progress. However, there is
nothing after this one. As for Jiraiya, he did not even stay in the village, but kept travailing for probably over 20 years.



Grimmjowsensei said:


> I think its "..." because "genin" is too embarassing.



That was good. 
too bad I can't rep now. @>@


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## ch1p (Oct 19, 2014)

Hussain said:


> Kushina barely appeared in one scan back then, and the story was still in progress. However, there is
> nothing after this one. As for Jiraiya, he did not even stay in the village, but kept travailing for probably over 20 years.



The databook is until the end of the fourth war. This is why I'm saying there's nothing to conclude from that.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 19, 2014)

Hussain said:


> That was good.
> too bad I can't rep now. @>@



No but seriously. It would look too damn retarded if both Naruto & Sasuke were listed as Genins.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Oct 19, 2014)

I wonder if we'll learn what all the elemental fusions were with this databook.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Oct 19, 2014)

Velocity said:


> Looking at it, there are five icons there and Sasuke only has two "lit up". What if they're elemental affinities? Sasuke may have the Rinnegan now but his affinities are still with Katon and Raiton jutsu. That would also support your idea that the two in the middle are Inton and Yoton.



The Rinnegan gives him the capacity to master all jutsu, yet he can still have an affinity towards one/two elements.



Turrin said:


> What's up with the question marks



Those are probably the slots where images from the currently unreleased chapters will be placed.


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## Memory (Oct 19, 2014)

Surprize mothafucka
Sum fries mothafucka
She lies mothafucka 
Naruto loves Sasuke and it is so stupid he doesn't realize mothafucka


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Oct 19, 2014)

If the book's coming out in November 4th, will it not cover the chapter that gets released within the same week?


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## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Oct 19, 2014)

shintebukuro said:


> It doesn't matter whether it was 50% or 100%, Minato could not do it. Why would Minato be incapable of a feat of ninjutsu mastery beneath Kisame or Asuma (both 4.5), and only equivalent to a 15 year-old Kankurou?
> 
> The stats are not written by Kishimoto, and they're disappearing. They're not "fine."



Dude, are you high? Minato didn't do it because he died before completing it.

The only reason Naruto managed it in the first place is because Kakashi came up with the training regime that allowed Naruto to learn it much quicker. Naruto was way too stupid to invent any jutsu on his own anyway. Without Kakashi, he never even would've known his element, while Sasuke already had 2 at age 13.

4 for Naruto in ninjutsu is so generous to say the least. Obviously now he deserves a 5 in ninjutsu, but back then he was an idiot who went away with jiraya for 2.5 years and the only thing he learned was how to make his rasengan slightly bigger


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## Trojan (Oct 19, 2014)

^
Naruto is the one who came up with the idea to learn the FRS, not kakashi.


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## shintebukuro (Oct 19, 2014)

RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki said:
			
		

> Dude, are you high? Minato didn't do it because he died before completing it.



He wasn't able to complete because of how difficult it was to do. It took more time than he had, which was not a problem for Naruto who could do so many KBs.

But no matter how you look at it, being able to put elemental chakra into Rasengan is a sign of absolute mastery of the jutsu.


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## MS81 (Oct 19, 2014)

Hussain said:


> ^
> Naruto is the one who came up with the idea to learn the FRS, not kakashi.



Kakashi taught him his element dude.

Kakashi told him about combining Rasengan with elements!!!


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## Trojan (Oct 19, 2014)

Yeah, but it's Naruto who came up with the clones idea to use the FRS.


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## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Oct 19, 2014)

Hussain said:


> ^
> Naruto is the one who came up with the idea to learn the FRS, not kakashi.


it was all Kakashi's genius and ingenuity.



shintebukuro said:


> He wasn't able to complete because of how difficult it was to do. It took more time than he had, which was not a problem for Naruto who could do so many KBs.
> 
> But no matter how you look at it, being able to put elemental chakra into Rasengan is a sign of absolute mastery of the jutsu.



Mastering one jutsu doesn't make you a ninjutsu expert. Naruto isn't an inventor or innovator of jutsu, unless you count his sexy jutsu. All his techniques up to the pain arc are just techniques that someone taught him or Naruto made bigger. 

And yeah, it took more time than Minato had before his untimely death, doesn't mean he wouldn't have accomplished it. I give more credit to the person who invented the rasengan, than someone who added the finishing touches (which he could've never done on his own without Yamato and Kakashi).


----------



## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Oct 19, 2014)

Hussain said:


> Yeah, but it's Naruto who came up with the clones idea to use the FRS.



No, Kakashi is the one that told Naruto to use his multi shadow clone jutsu to shorted his training time. Naruto is so dumb, he didn't even know that his clones pass on all new knowledge they learn to the original.

All Naruto did was figure out that he needed to shadow clones to perform the rasengan while the other added wind. And again, this was because of  Kakashi's genius once again. Naruto said it was impossible because it felt like Naruto was trying to look left and right at the same time. And Kakashi (being the boss that he is), showed Naruto that it isn't impossible by making his shadow clone look one way, while the original looked the other.

Literally, all Naruto did was follow Kakashi's instructions. Kakashi is the true inventor of the Rasenshuriken.


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## Trojan (Oct 19, 2014)

^
Kakashi did not even realize that, so it's still Naruto's. Even Kakashi admitted that, but anyway, nevermind...


----------



## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Oct 19, 2014)

Hussain said:


> ^
> Kakashi did not even realize that, so it's still Naruto's. Even Kakashi admitted that, but anyway, nevermind...



It's Narutos jutsu because he's the only one who can use it and that's all.

But like Kakashi said, the training was something only Naruto could do. Kakashi did every single thing in terms of the creation of the rasenshuriken.


----------



## Majin Lu (Oct 19, 2014)

Velocity said:


> Looking at it, there are five icons there and Sasuke only has two "lit up". What if they're elemental affinities? Sasuke may have the Rinnegan now but his affinities are still with Katon and Raiton jutsu. That would also support your idea that the two in the middle are Inton and Yoton.


I agree. The "yin" is also showing for Sasuke.


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Oct 19, 2014)

Hopefully there's a section which shows all the elemental fusions; 2 and 3 elements.


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## MS81 (Oct 19, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Hopefully there's a section which shows all the elemental fusions; 2 and 3 elements.



they would be listed as Kekkai Gekkai or Kekkai toutta!


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## shintebukuro (Oct 19, 2014)

RaSenkoChoRinbukuSanshiki said:
			
		

> Mastering one jutsu doesn't make you a ninjutsu expert. Naruto isn't an inventor or innovator of jutsu, unless you count his sexy jutsu. All his techniques up to the pain arc are just techniques that someone taught him or Naruto made bigger.



Well, the thing is, Hidan has a 5 in ninjutsu. He is neither an innovator, nor particularly intelligent.

It's a weird thing; characters seem to get a higher rating based on mastering one thing instead of value being placed on versatility. Yamato has amazing Doton, Suiton, and freakin' Mokuton, yet he only has a 4.5. Kisame has an equal score, and he can only really do Suiton (and the scale of his techniques are due to absorbing chakra w/ Samehada).


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## Turrin (Oct 20, 2014)

shintebukuro said:


> Well, the thing is, Hidan has a 5 in ninjutsu. He is neither an innovator, nor particularly intelligent.
> 
> It's a weird thing; characters seem to get a higher rating based on mastering one thing instead of value being placed on versatility. Yamato has amazing Doton, Suiton, and freakin' Mokuton, yet he only has a 4.5. Kisame has an equal score, and he can only really do Suiton (and the scale of his techniques are due to absorbing chakra w/ Samehada).


The DB measures Ninjutsu proficiency. The art of Ninjutsu is explained to encompass several things:

1) Building up Chakra (or creating chakra from physical-mental energy)
2) Controlling that Chakra
3) From there the controlled chakra can have Shape alteration or nature alteration (5-Elements or In'ton/Yo'ton) applied to it.

All three of these skills can be performed at different "levels" of efficiency and it's a ninja's skill with these arts that define his/her Ninjutsu proficiency.

The amount of techniques a person shows doesn't matter. How deadly the techniques are could, matter, but their deadliness could simply be a result of the quantity or quality of chakra applied to the technique. 

Yamato can use two nature alterations, but this is typical of most Jonin, so that wouldn't require a 5. He also uses mostly A and B rank skills, so that also wouldn't require a 5. They are on a large scale because he has Hashirama's magic chakra. The skill it takes for Mokuton is harder to rate, but I would guess the techniques Yamato uses are also in line with the A to B rank acquisition difficulty for those blessed with the genetic potential to use Mokuton in the first place. So his ranking falls in line with that.

When it comes to Hidan we don't know enough about his capabilities to make assertions against his score. For all we know his immortality technique and vodoo technique could require an absolute insane mastery of all of the core skills. Gathering chakra, chakra control, and altering it's nature to In'ton or Yo'ton

Naruto on the other hand may not have gotten a 5 because while FRS would indeed require the height of all these skills, he has to utilize multiple clones to generate FRS, as he lacks the skills necessary to utilize all of these things at their highest level by his own abilities. So it's really the proficiency of 3 Naruto's combined that makes this possible rather than the proficiency of 1 Naruto. Or perhaps utilizing elemental nature change is not as difficult as utilizing Yo'ton or In'ton nature change, so one needs to demonstrate mastery of multiple elements on their highest level to match someone who is able to use Yo'ton or In'ton alteration at it's peak. 

We don't know Kishi's methodology exactly, but there is no real contradiction in these scores.


----------



## tari101190 (Oct 20, 2014)

Having 5/5 Ninjutsu doesn't make them innovative or an inventor. Just a master of their signature jutsu.

Yamato's jutsu are all inherited from Hashirama. He can't use them as well as Hashirama can, but is still a jounin expert, so a 4.5/5 sounds fine.

Hidan has his immortality ritual thing and can use it perfectly so 5/5 I guess.

The number corresponds to their overall level of mastery in an area.

The stats are ranks.

5+ = S-Rank = Kage level (not included in stats, but we know who has S-Rank skills)
5 = A-Rank = Elite Jounin level
4 = B-Rank  = Jounin level
3 = C-Rank = Chuunin level
2 = D-Rank = Genin level
1 = E-Rank = Student level

Calculating average stat (divide total by 8) would give you their rank.

But then if you know characters have an S-rank skill not included in those stats, factor it in after and everyone with a high enough stat total + an s-rank skill is regarded as Kage level.

Some Kekekai Genkai = S-Rank Ninjutsu = Kage level jutsu

Gates, Sage mode, Tsunade Strength etc = S-Rank strength = Kage level strength

Gates, Sage mode, Cursed Seal, Bijuu chakra etc = S-Rank = Kage level stamina

Gates, Raikage Raiton shroud = S-Rank = Kage level speed


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## Cord (Oct 20, 2014)

Altair21 said:


> Why do you guys want stats so much anyway? They really don't mean much in the grand scheme of things.



They serve as a pretty reliable data to fall back on when arguing over hypothetical battles. Typically, it's used when people want to compare characters' skills in several different categories (most notably, speed and intelligence). Though, many would argue that those stats should be congruent with what the characters have displayed through feats to be deemed credible.



tari101190 said:


> I would like a different approach to stats. But I like the old stat system too.



So do I. I just wished the author didn't make 5 as the cap and should have just gone up to 10 so the disparity between character stats would be more emphasized if they were to be compared.


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## MS81 (Oct 20, 2014)

tari101190 said:


> Having 5/5 Ninjutsu doesn't make them innovative or an inventor. Just a master of their signature jutsu.
> 
> *Yamato's jutsu are all inherited from Hashirama. He can't use them as well as Hashirama can, but is still a jounin expert, so a 4.5/5 sounds fine.*
> *Hidan has his immortality ritual thing and can use it perfectly so 5/5 I guess.*
> ...



I like this ranking you have there bro!


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## Epyon (Oct 20, 2014)

Hashirama and Madara's stats should be in 38-39 range, Kakashi should have higher totals then Jiraiya and Itachi thanks to his godtier Stamina. Hell, i have trouble justifying Danzo staying below them, given his considerable physical stats as well as obvious 5s in Genjutsu, Ninjutsu, Seals and Intelligence. I'd rather they forego stats this times then lie to preserve Itachi's pedestal.


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## Hexa (Oct 20, 2014)

There needs to be a databook for how to interpret the stats such that they're not instantly deemed self-contradictory.

Really, the stats just show what a ninja is good or bad at.  The actual numerical values have some scaling based on power level, but that's as far as it goes.  When you start comparing the stats of different characters, they don't make sense despite people trying _really_ hard to make sense of them.


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## Trojan (Oct 20, 2014)

Epyon said:


> Hashirama and Madara's stats should be in 38-39 range, Kakashi should have higher totals then Jiraiya and Itachi thanks to his godtier Stamina. Hell, i have trouble justifying Danzo staying below them, given his considerable physical stats as well as obvious 5s in Genjutsu, Ninjutsu, Seals and Intelligence. I'd rather they forego stats this times then lie to preserve Itachi's pedestal.



I don't think Kakashi would get Obito's chakra in the databook, that like saying everyone will get credits for Naruto & Minato's chakra that was giving to them in the war.  

Also, Hashirama's power is all from his strong/huge Ninjutsu, he did not really show any outstanding speed/seals/ or intelligent. Power by itself won't give that high score.

Wind Arc Naruto was stronger than Kakashi at the time, yet Kakashi has 8.5 points higher than him.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 20, 2014)

Guys Ninjutsu refers to "Knowledge and Proficiency of Ninja arts."

Naruto had 4 ninjutsu in DB 3 because his overall grasp of Ninja arts is poor, and his proficiency is limited to rasengan variants. His greatest rasengan variant, incomplete FRS took him theoritically years to master. And FRS(incomplete one) alone isn't that big of a deal.

I believe Naruto's 4 is pretty legit and no doubt war arc Naruto(pre Rikodou boost) would have a 5 in that category.


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## Epyon (Oct 20, 2014)

Hussain said:


> I don't think Kakashi would get Obito's chakra in the databook, that like saying everyone will get credits for Naruto & Minato's chakra that was giving to them in the war.
> 
> Also, Hashirama's power is all from his strong/huge Ninjutsu, he did not really show any outstanding speed/seals/ or intelligent. Power by itself won't give that high score.
> 
> Wind Arc Naruto was stronger than Kakashi at the time, yet Kakashi has 8.5 points higher than him.



I didn't say anything obito's chakra. kakashi had already been fighting, rampaging, even for two days straight with sharingan unmasked, using chidori and kamui before naruto's chakra ever came into the mix. just judging from everything that came before kyuubi Naruto started handing out chakra (which is highly genrous) he's easily a 4 and above. And Hashirama's strength most certainly did not just come from his Ninjutsu. Even in hand to hand he can stand up to Edo Madara, who can run circles around all five Kage and the entire Fifth Division if he wants too. Gai isn't nearly impressive without the Gates. He's also the inventor of Bringer of Darkness Genjutsu, that's a 5 right there. As for intelligence, he did invent the entire ninja village system the world decided to adopt, you know. he's much more deserving of a 4.5 then Asuma or Kakuzu, who never came up with anyhing particularly innovative.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Oct 20, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Guys Ninjutsu refers to "Knowledge and Proficiency of Ninja arts."
> 
> Naruto had 4 ninjutsu in DB 3 because his overall grasp of Ninja arts is poor, and his proficiency is limited to rasengan variants. His greatest rasengan variant, incomplete FRS took him theoritically years to master. And FRS(incomplete one) alone isn't that big of a deal.
> 
> I believe Naruto's 4 is pretty legit and no doubt war arc Naruto(pre Rikodou boost) would have a 5 in that category.



I'd say Naruto's previous score (DB3) wasn't because of Rasengan variants alone. That should bring him up, however his poor grasp on how Ninjutsu works is probably what pulled him down.


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## Vice (Oct 20, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Guys Ninjutsu refers to "Knowledge and Proficiency of Ninja arts."
> 
> Naruto had 4 ninjutsu in DB 3 because his overall grasp of Ninja arts is poor, and his proficiency is limited to rasengan variants. His greatest rasengan variant, incomplete FRS took him theoritically years to master. And FRS(incomplete one) alone isn't that big of a deal.
> 
> I believe Naruto's 4 is pretty legit and no doubt war arc Naruto(pre Rikodou boost) would have a 5 in that category.



lolwut? A 4 isn't a poor score, especially considering that a 2.5 is average.


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## shintebukuro (Oct 21, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:
			
		

> Guys Ninjutsu refers to "Knowledge and Proficiency of Ninja arts."
> 
> Naruto had 4 ninjutsu in DB 3 because his overall grasp of Ninja arts is poor, and his proficiency is limited to rasengan variants. His greatest rasengan variant, incomplete FRS took him theoritically years to master. And FRS(incomplete one) alone isn't that big of a deal.





			
				Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:
			
		

> I'd say Naruto's previous score (DB3) wasn't because of Rasengan variants alone. That should bring him up, however his poor grasp on how Ninjutsu works is probably what pulled him down.



Now explain Hidan.


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## Lurko (Oct 21, 2014)

Naruto and Sasuke better be a five in everything.


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## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Oct 21, 2014)

shintebukuro said:


> Now explain Hidan.



Quality, not quantity.

Hidans ninjutsu is one of the most unique ninjutsu in the entire manga... Immortality. 

And the ability to inflict pain on himself which transfers over to his opponents. His death possession blood may be his only jutsu, but it's such a special jutsu that requires who knows how much knowledge.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 21, 2014)

shintebukuro said:


> Now explain Hidan.



Hidan's technique is much more advanced than anything Naruto has in his arsenal(excluding current Naruto). Unless ofc you think a spinning ball of chakra is more advanced than a technique that makes you immortal, both in princible and application 

It is a pretty complex technique and I reckon it'd require you to be more proficient in Ninjutsu to be able to master it. Its that simple. Hidan's technique is too damn haxxed. Hidan is weak individually because he is too one dimensional and dumb, which doesn't have anything to do with his ninjutsu score.



Former Obd Lurker. said:


> Naruto and Sasuke better be a five in everything.



I don't see Naruto getting a 5 in intelligence, seals and genjutsu.

My prediction for perfect stats : Madara & Hashirama (possibly 40)

Near perfect stats : Minato, Nagato & Obito (36.5 - 39.5 range)



Vice said:


> lolwut? A 4 isn't a poor score, especially considering that a 2.5 is average.



I didn't say 4 is poor. I said he got a 4 and not a 5 because of his poor grasp of Ninja arts in general. 4 is decent. And 2.5 isn't average, 3 is. Just sayin.


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## Vice (Oct 21, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> I didn't say 4 is poor. I said he got a 4 and not a 5 because of his poor grasp of Ninja arts in general. 4 is decent. And 2.5 isn't average, 3 is. Just sayin.



If 5 is the cap than 2.5 is the average, not 3. 3 is above average.


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## Trojan (Oct 21, 2014)

there are fractions.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 21, 2014)

Vice said:


> If 5 is the cap than 2.5 is the average, not 3. 3 is above average.



Well yeah I always thought of it as 5 point system. With the fractions accounted in, 2.5 is the average. Which means Itachi's stamina is not below average 



Hussain said:


> there are fractions.



Oh god Hussain's account is taken over by ISIS


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## Vice (Oct 21, 2014)

tari101190 said:


> 3 is average.
> 
> There are no fraction numbers in this stat system.
> 
> If there were fractions, then it would be a 10 point stat system.



The fuck are you talking about?

The average between 0, the minimum, and 5, the maximum, is 2.5.


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## tari101190 (Oct 21, 2014)

Oh I was thinking of Bleach & Hunter. Naruto did have fractions.


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## shintebukuro (Oct 21, 2014)

RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki said:
			
		

> Quality, not quantity.
> 
> Hidans ninjutsu is one of the most unique ninjutsu in the entire manga... Immortality.
> 
> And the ability to inflict pain on himself which transfers over to his opponents. His death possession blood may be his only jutsu, but it's such a special jutsu that requires who knows how much knowledge.





			
				Grimmjowsensei said:
			
		

> Hidan's technique is much more advanced than anything Naruto has in his arsenal(excluding current Naruto). Unless ofc you think a spinning ball of chakra is more advanced than a technique that makes you immortal, both in princible and application
> 
> It is a pretty complex technique and I reckon it'd require you to be more proficient in Ninjutsu to be able to master it. Its that simple. Hidan's technique is too damn haxxed. Hidan is weak individually because he is too one dimensional and dumb, which doesn't have anything to do with his ninjutsu score.



Minato could summon a Shinigami who could seal people away in another dimension. He could also utilize a S/T barrier capable of completely neutralizing the Jyuubi's strongest Bijuu Dama, which is probably in the top 5 strongest techniques in ninja existence. All in his mid 20's, by the way.

And Minato also created Rasengan in the hopes of adding elemental chakra to it, but found it to be an _impossible_ task.

Naruto then does it, but he only has equal ninjutsu stat to pre-timeskip Kankurou and Temari, and an inferior stat to Kisame. We talk of his bad understanding and/or knowledge of ninjutsu, but then we look at Hidan --a 22 year-old idiot from the shittiest village in the series.

And if knowledge and understanding of ninjutsu is so critical to the score, why does post-timeskip Sakura only have a 3, despite her incredible book knowledge/training with Tsunade/ability to do precise medical ninjutsu/talent that surpasses Shizune, whereas fuckin GUY has the same damn score, despite the statement that he couldn't even perform ninjutsu as a youngster?


Kishimoto does not write the databook, and he does NOT write the stats. They're written by a different company; the same people who said Hanzou's mask was built for underwater breathing, that Kamui was achieved by Kakashi training his chakra over, and who said that all MS users get Totsuka and Yata mirror. 

Yeah, the stats are flawless. They managed flawless stats, despite Chouji having a higher ninjutsu stat than Sasuke in book 1. Who had better ninjutsu knowledge between them, by the way?


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## Trojan (Oct 21, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Oh god Hussain's account is taken over by ISIS



What makes you think so?


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## SaiST (Oct 21, 2014)

shintebukuro said:


> ..that Kamui was achieved by Kakashi training his chakra over, and who said that all MS users get Totsuka and Yata mirror.


Didn't actually say the former, and I can't really fault them for the latter as it was based on Itachi's example of the technique.


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## shintebukuro (Oct 21, 2014)

SaiST said:


> Didn't actually say the former, and I can't really fault them for the latter as it was based on Itachi's example of the technique.



Well, that's the flaw of the book:

They need info to fill up Hanzou's character bio --> Hanzou has a big polarizing part of his character design that is his mask + w_e see that other Ame ninja with masks are shown hiding in water in the sewers_ -->he was a hype character who barely appeared and will *_probably_* never show up again, hmmmmm.....------> uh oh, still need that info to fill his profile------> (How about...) "Hanzou had his mask made specifically so he could fight better underwater, and......ummm...and he's the _FASTEST_ fighter underwater!" _Yeah_, that's the ticket!! *high five*

Inferences made on current material cannot possibly pan out once later material is written. That's why the stats don't work; the writers never anticipated the power levels would get as high as they did. If Kishi wrote them, they'd probably be half-way decent.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 21, 2014)

Hussain said:


> What makes you think so?



Your sig :ignoramus


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 21, 2014)

shintebukuro said:


> Minato could summon a Shinigami who could seal people away in another dimension. He could also utilize a S/T barrier capable of completely neutralizing the Jyuubi's strongest Bijuu Dama, which is probably in the top 5 strongest techniques in ninja existence. All in his mid 20's, by the way.
> 
> And Minato also created Rasengan in the hopes of adding elemental chakra to it, but found it to be an _impossible_ task.
> 
> ...



I think you are you just nitpicking.

Like I already said, Hidan may be an idiot, but he had to be really good at ninjutsu to be able to master and use such a haxxed technique. I didn't read Hidan's profile, but when I read the manga, I was like "oh boy thats one haxxed technique." I have no problems with his 5 in ninjutsu category.

Minato not being able to master FRS is bullshit. Call it a retcon if you will, FRS is a pretty average technique compared to the rest of Minato's arsenal, and Naruto is a shitty dropout compared to one of the greatest geniuses of all times.  So it makes absolutely no sense from Manga's point of view either.

By knowledge of Ninjutsu, I am not referring to book smarts. Sakura's arsenal during the time of the databook composed of an inferior version of Tsunade's smashy-smashy and mediocre healing jutsus. And actually she didn't seem knowledgeable overall, she only had knowledge on specifically medical shit.

As for the inconsistincies, the manga itself is full them.
Kihimoto said there were 9 bijuus, Kyuubi was a natural disaster that popped here and then, Shukaku was a priests spirit sealed in a kettle and tons of shit like this, which were later on slightly modified or outright proven wrong. 

Manga is subject to change, and by extension, so is databook.


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## tari101190 (Oct 21, 2014)

The ONLY reason Naruto can use FRS and Minato cannot is because of his chakra capacity allowing him to create multi-clones while using FRS. Kakashi said this already in chapter 330.

I don't know why people think Minato has high Stamina. His stamina will be a 3.5 at most. Probably a 3.

*Minato*
nin: 5
gen: 4
tai: 4
int: 5
str: 3
spd: 5
stam: 3.5
sea: 5

Ninjutsu stat refers to the range of complex jutsu they know and their mastery over them.

Intelligence stat refers to general knowledge, experience and ingenuity.

If they know a range of jutsu up to A-Rank (not just one), they will have a score of up to 5.

If they know a range of jutsu up to B-Rank (not just one), they will have a score of up to 4.

If they know a range of jutsu up to C-Rank (not just one), they will have a score of up to 3.

If they know a range of jutsu up to D-Rank (not just one), they will have a score of up to 2.

If they know a range of jutsu up to E-Rank (not just one), they will have a score of up to 1.


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## Kyu (Oct 21, 2014)

> I don't know why people think Minato has high Stamina. His stamina will be a 3.5 at most. Probably a 3.




Keeping 100% Kurama inside his wife using his own chakra
Casually warps a giant nuke
Beats Obito's ass
Ceases the ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)'s control over the fox via Contract Seal
Summons Gamabunta
Warps Kurama & his nuke
Summons the Shinigami while exhausted 
Splits Kurama's chakra in half
Summons Gerotora while impaled 
Seals his & Kushina's remaining chakra into their son

I find it the other way around. Don't see many other non-jinchuriki w/o special genetics pulling off what Minato did in a single night. Additionally, he naturally has the large chakra reserves required to utilize natural energy to conjure up senjutsu. He should be at the very least up there with Jiraiya stamina-wise.


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## tari101190 (Oct 21, 2014)

He would've died of chakra exhaustion if he wasn't murdered. He was fighting to the death to save his son.

Why would you assume any of that stuff would require lots of chakra? Other characters can summon or use shinigami or teleport too. The reason they are impressive jutsu are not because they take a lot of chakra.

If he had so much chakra then Kakashi wouldn't need to say the only reason Naruto can use FRS is because of how much chakra he had. And specifically mention that Minato wouldn't be capable of it either.

And there is no reason why a perfect sage like Minato cannot use Sage Mode in battle unless he doesn't have enough chakra to maintain it. Funny how Jiraiya and the Toad guy failed to mention Minato had enormous chakra too.


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## Trojan (Oct 21, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Your sig :ignoramus



What's written in my sig is Al-Hussain, it's The anniversary of his martyrdom, in the battle of Karbala, and that was long time ago, and has nothing to do with ISIS. 



tari101190 said:


> I don't know why people think Minato has high Stamina. His stamina will be a 3.5 at most. Probably a 3



yeah, no.


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## Kyu (Oct 21, 2014)

> He would've died of chakra exhaustion if he wasn't murdered.



What? Kushina implied the opposite. The Shinigami would've taken his soul but that isn't dying of 'chakra exhaustion'. 



> Why would you assume any of that stuff would require lots of chakra? Other characters can summon or use shinigami or teleport too. The reason they are impressive jutsu are not because they take a lot of chakra.



Warping massive objects and sealing powerful entities is bound to take it's toll & requires a lot of chakra if a chakra beast like Minato was out of breath after teleporting Kurama.




> there is no reason why a perfect sage like Minato cannot use Sage Mode in battle unless he doesn't have enough chakra to maintain it. Funny how Jiraiya and the Toad guy failed to mention Minato had enormous chakra too.





Minato meets this requirement & can gather natural energy otherwise he wouldn't be to enter Sage Mode.



			
				Kyu said:
			
		

> Minato tends to end his fights in a swift blitz. Standing idle for a few seconds to enter SM clashes with his fighting style & he's hardly ever in a situation where he had the luxury of doing so. Remember, Minato is a guy who's constantly mobile in battle and by his standards, a few moments is too long for him to gather the natural energy.


Btw, Jiraiya would face similar problems if he didn't have Fukasaku & Shima continuously pumping him full of NE via Senpō: Ryōsei no Jutsu.


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## Jizznificent (Oct 21, 2014)

i'll give it another shot :*

madara (VotE)*
nin: 5
gen: 5
tai: 5
int: 5
str: 4
spe: 4.5
sta: 5
h.seal: 5

*nagato (PI Arc)*
nin: 5
gen: 5
tai: 4
int: 5
str: 1
spe: 1
sta: 5
h.seal: 5

*hashirama (VotE)*
nin: 5
gen: 5
tai: 5
int: 3.5
str: 4.5
spe: 4.5
sta: 5
h.seal: 5

*prime tobirama *
nin: 5
gen: 4
tai: 5
int: 5 
str: 4
spe: 5
sta: 4.5
h.seal: 5

*minato (birth of naruto)*
nin: 5
gen: 3.5
tai: 4.5
int: 5 
str: 3.5
spe: 5
sta: 3.5 or 4
h.seal: 5

*prime hagoromo*
nin: 5
gen: 5
tai: 5
int: 5 
str: 5
spe: 5
sta: 5
h.seal: 5


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## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Oct 21, 2014)

I can't beleive people still need to be lectured on why Minato has high stamina/chakra reserves. How do people still not get it, it's so straight forward. 

The amount of times that fukaksu scan has been repeatedly posted -_-

If minato didn't already have enormous chakra, he would've turned into a toad. The fact that he's a true sage is a testament to his chakra reserves and chakra control.

It's completely and absolutely impossible at all to use Sage Mode if you don't have the chakra for it. Orochimaru couldn't become a sage because he didn't have the chakra/body for it. Hence why Orochimaru only has a 3 or 3.5 in stamina, while Jiraya has a 5.

And minato can use sage mode anytime he wants. It's just a time waster though, if you're strong enough to neg diff the likes of Obito without it, then I don't see why minato would've ever really needed it.


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## tari101190 (Oct 21, 2014)

Maybe you're right.

But Minato said he's not good with Sage Mode. He didn't say he doesn't use because he doesn't need it.


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## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Oct 21, 2014)

tari101190 said:


> Maybe you're right.
> 
> But Minato said he's not good with Sage Mode. He didn't say he doesn't use because he doesn't need it.



Jiraya isn't good with sage mode either. You know why?

Because it takes too long to build up the chakra and because jiraya can't maintain it long. Yet jiraya still managed to use it against pain, yet minato still managed to use it against Madara.

Jiraya is 10x worse at sage mode than minato, hence why he summons toads to help him. If minato summons the toads, then his drawbacks would disappear. Fukasku already stated the weaknesses of sage mode, which is what minato simply repeated, it doesn't only apply to him, it applied to Naruto as well when he first learned it, hence why Fukasku tried to fuse with Naruto.


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## DavyChan (Oct 21, 2014)

Lol, i love how u put naruto's taijutsu above sakura's.


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## Trojan (Oct 21, 2014)

is there is not stat in the next Databook, why do people even bother with them?


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Oct 22, 2014)

Guess this is quite pointless now considering that there are no stats ranking things out of 5, it seems.


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