# Sauron vs. Palpatine: More badass Dark Lord



## RandomLurker (Jan 3, 2012)

Inspired by the Voldemort vs. Sauron thread

Which Dark Lord is more badass? Sauron from Lord of the Rings or Emperor Palpatine from Star Wars?


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Jan 3, 2012)

Sauron is more bad ass

Palpy has a far larger toy box to play with and thus has way better accomplishments

and in a fight he would ruin Saruon


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## Azrael Finalstar (Jan 3, 2012)

Sauron is cooler


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 3, 2012)

based only on movies for both (even just the 1-3 movies for SW) :

Palpatine > eye in the sky


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## OS (Jan 3, 2012)

Palpatine had has vader as his bitch


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## Gone (Jan 3, 2012)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> and in a fight he would ruin Saruon



What if Sauron had the ring?


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## Nevermind (Jan 3, 2012)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> and in a fight he would ruin Saruon



Eh, what? Really?

Anyway, I found Palpatine to be more bad ass.


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## I3igAl (Jan 3, 2012)

Sauron is an eldritch force of evil not really a person so he cannot be truly baddass. Palpatine wins.


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## Twinsen (Jan 3, 2012)

Second age Sauron > First age Sauron > Palpatine > Third Age Sauron

In terms of being badass, that is.


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## Riley (Jan 3, 2012)

Awww thanks RL

Anyways what TIWD said. 

However the ey in the sky bad ass shit. Plus, there's Sauron's giving god the finger versus screwing over the jedi which the former take the cake for me. Unless Palpatine has done that before then he isn't getting anywhere in my top dark lord pop book.


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## Bit Sean (Jan 3, 2012)

Darth Nihilus said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



All that needs to be said really.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jan 3, 2012)

The novel is out already?


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## Darth Nihilus (Jan 3, 2012)

In seven days mein square

In seven days


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jan 3, 2012)

Darth Nihilus said:


> In seven days mein square
> 
> In seven days



Looks like I know what I'm getting with my next check.


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## Fang (Jan 3, 2012)

The beckoning of the dark side awaits.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jan 3, 2012)

meinsquarewithchips.gif


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## Fang (Jan 3, 2012)

mfw he looks like has down's syndrome

typicalmuun.png

Anyway the Order of the Sith Lords has more known members:

- Plagueis
- Teneberous


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## Darth Nihilus (Jan 3, 2012)

>Teneberous



meinsquarewithchips.gif


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## Fang (Jan 3, 2012)

[YOUTUBE]Mu_XLDlDWLQ[/YOUTUBE]


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## Fang (Jan 3, 2012)

And the birth of the Imperial Knights.


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## Es (Jan 3, 2012)

Darth Nihilus said:


> In seven days mein square
> 
> In seven days



Already preordered it


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Jan 3, 2012)

Ryjacork said:


> What if Sauron had the ring?



not changing the outcome 



Nevermind said:


> Eh, what? Really?
> .



a mid tier god with decent mind rape feats vs some one who could probably take four to five out of ten in a mental contest with Charles Xavier?

yeah I'm betting on that guy over Sauron


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## Reddan (Jan 3, 2012)

Fluttershy said:


> based only on movies for both (even just the 1-3 movies for SW) :
> 
> Palpatine > eye in the sky





Riley said:


> Awww thanks RL
> 
> Anyways what TIWD said.
> 
> However the ey in the sky bad ass shit. Plus, there's Sauron's giving god the finger versus screwing over the jedi which the former take the cake for me. Unless Palpatine has done that before then he isn't getting anywhere in my top dark lord pop book.


I don't see how being a big giant eyeball is badass. Anyway going by the primary canon source, Sauron has never ever been an eye. From at least the Hobbit onwards he had reformed a body, which was huge but not gigantic.

Again Sauron was never giving Eru the finger, because he thought Eru had forgotten about the world and would not get involved. He was at best standing up to Manwe, but in Tolkien's work standing up to a divine/demonic presence is far far easier when there is distance involved. After the War of Wrath Sauron was too scared to seak pardon from Manwe in person and hid away. Nor did he ever dare and seriously attac Aman himself, because he knew what would happen.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Jan 3, 2012)

arednad said:


> Again Sauron was never giving Eru the finger,



you have this disease along with trolling...of taking everything every one says literally

any ways go preach about hybrid demon spawn fan theories for naruto and stop fagging up these threads


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## Reddan (Jan 3, 2012)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> you have this disease along with trolling...of taking everything every one says literally
> 
> any ways go preach about hybrid demon spawn fan theories for naruto and stop fagging up these threads



Where as you are just not very intelligent. Figuratively it is impossible for Sauron to EVER have enough power to give Eru the proverbial finger It is insulting to Tolkien's entire work to think that Sauron could defy Eru's power. This is your problem you would destroy everything about a piece of literature to make a character you like more powerful. It is immature and seems to be a desperate attempt to vicariously live through these characters.

Manwe was the second most powerful thing in creation and not even he could initially stand to Melkor face to face and give him the proverbial finger. To think anyone could do so to Eru once he invokes his power is a joke. 

It also takes back from the two characters, who had the power and the will to truly give Morgoth the proverbial finger. Even in that case they probably overstepped the mark. It takes away from what Finwe, Luthien and Hurin managed. They stood face to face with the mightiest being created and literally gave him the finger.

EDIT
Defying Someone trying to exert power over you is not easy in Tolkiens work. In his or her presence it is literally impossible.

Example 1.
Even a man as great as Aragorn would hand over the ring to Sauron in person when the Dark Lord commanded him to.

Example 2.
Even Galadriel and Elrond had they taken the ring would almost certainly lose to Sauron in a personal confrontation.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Jan 3, 2012)

arednad said:


> Where as you are just not very intelligent.



right says the guy who can't even grasp analogies and metaphors and goes int a tirade downplaying on a level that borders on a bannable offense?


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## Reddan (Jan 3, 2012)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> right says the guy who can't even grasp analogies and metaphors and goes int a tirade downplaying on a level that borders on a bannable offense?



I fully understand analogies and metaphors, but Sauron never believed the Valar let alone Eru would get involved. Sauron is the guy far too scared to meet Manwe to be pardoned. Now you think he has the guts to act in anyway paramount to flipping off Eru?

Finwe gave the Morgoth the finger. Hurin gave Morgoth the finger. Elendil consistently gave Sauron the finger. 

A school bully picking on another kid, because he thinks the teacher is out of the room is not giving anyone the finger.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Jan 3, 2012)

he had an army invade Valinor so that the Valar would smash Numenor

and he didn't expect reprisals? please Ardy stop trolling


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## Skywalker (Jan 3, 2012)

Sauron doesn't deserve this.


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## Orochibuto (Jan 3, 2012)

Darth Nihilus said:


> meinsquarewithchips.gif



Seems like this novel could reveal Plagueis was indeed more powerful than Sidious. I wouldnt be surprised, after all theoricatelly inducing the midichlorians to multiply themselves (which is needed to create life) should give a force user infinite afinity to the force.


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## Reddan (Jan 3, 2012)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> he had an army invade Valinor so that the Valar would smash Numenor
> 
> and he didn't expect reprisals? please Ardy stop trolling



No he had the army invaded so that the Valar would smash the army. He never exected Eruo to get involved and sink all of Numenor. He was shocked by this and had his body destroyed. Up to this point Sauron in person was more powerful than Morgoth had been at the end of the first age. It was the height of his personal power and he never again was able regain it. 

Second one of the main reasons he fell back into evil was in his haste to rebuild ME after the War of Wrath. He believed with good reason the Valar had abandoned ME and left men to their own devices. So he did not expect any reaction. 

*Very slowly, begining with fair motives: the reorganizing and rehabilitation of the ruin of Middle-earth, 'neglected by the gods', he becomes a Reincarnation of Evil, and a thing lusting for Complete Power--and so consumed ever more fiercely with hate (especially of gods and Elves).*

Afterall when Sauron returned and was waging war again all the Valar did was send the limited wizards and Glorfindel back. In a plan, which utterly failed. So Sauron was not wrong to think the Valar would not destroy the humans. Nor did the Valar have the authority to wipe out an entire continent of people in such a manner.

*It is very reasonable to suppose that Manw? knew that before long (as he saw 'time') the Dominion of Men must begin, and the making of history would then be committed to them: for their struggle with Evil special arrangements had been made! Manw? knew of Sauron, of course. He had commanded Sauron to come before him for judgement, but had left room for repentance and ultimate rehabilitation. Sauron had refused and had fled into hiding. Sauron, however, was a problem that Men had to deal with finally: the first of the many concentrations of Evil into definite power-points that they would have to combat, as it was also the last of those in 'mythological' personalized (but non-human) form.*


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Jan 3, 2012)

are you sitting to me author notes that didn't make it into the silmarillion?

fucking no lol,


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## SHM (Jan 3, 2012)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> you have this disease along with trolling...of taking everything every one says literally
> 
> any ways go preach about hybrid demon spawn fan theories for naruto and stop fagging up these threads



I'm sorry, but are Palpatine and Sauron from Naruto? No? Then why did you mention it? And why did you _insult_ him ("fagging") and told him to live, when the only thing he did here was express his opinion?

And you call _him_ a troll.


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## Fang (Jan 4, 2012)

What the hell does bringing up Palpatine and Sauron have to do with Naruto?


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## Orochibuto (Jan 4, 2012)

Fang said:


> No            .



Isnt the affinity to the force defined by midichlorians? And isnt necessary to create life gather an enormous ammount of midichlorians that will form part of the new living beigns? They are cells after all, the midichlorians per cell are how strong you are in the force.

I cant see why with this technique Plagueis wouldnt be capable of incrementing his midichlorians count.

Of course its speculation at this point but, it isnt impossible either and for me it has logic.


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## Soledad Eterna (Jan 4, 2012)

Sauron is more metal.


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## Wan (Jan 4, 2012)

Palpatine vs. Melkor would be a better match.


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## Orochibuto (Jan 4, 2012)

Oman said:


> Palpatine vs. Melkor would be a better match.



Melkor? You mean the god that is directly tied to existence itself becuase of his voice in the song that made the universe? Lol no. Palpatine has no way to destroy Melkor.


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## Gone (Jan 4, 2012)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> you have this disease along with trolling...of taking everything every one says literally
> 
> any ways go preach about hybrid demon spawn fan theories for naruto and stop fagging up these threads



I don't think he was taking it literally, I think he understood that Sauron giving Erou the finger was a metaphor for Saurons act of defiance, and disagrees with this.




Orochibuto said:


> Palpatine has no way to destroy Melkor.


Inb4 Fang says that Palpatine mind fucks him.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Jan 4, 2012)

Soledad Eterna said:


> Sauron is more metal.



the guy does have his own heavy metal songs 



Oman said:


> Palpatine vs. Melkor would be a better match.



personality wise they seem allot closer


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## RandomLurker (Jan 4, 2012)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> personality wise they seem allot closer



I was contemplating on the possibility of using Darth Vader instead of Palpatine for this thread, but decided against it.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Jan 4, 2012)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> personality wise they seem allot closer



How can you say that? Sauron was a guileful manipulator. His very title is The Deceiver.

He is far more akin to Sidious, the politician who tricked his way into power,  than Melkor. Melkor, while he occasionally used deception, was pretty much a straightforward Might Makes Right kind of guy.

You also have to factor in their ambitions. Melkor wanted to be God. His ultimate goal was nothing more or less than to be the supreme ruler of reality.

Sauron and Palpatine however were content to rule the fleeting and meaningless mortal world. 




The Immortal WatchDog said:


> he had an army invade Valinor so that the Valar would smash Numenor
> 
> and he didn't expect reprisals? please Ardy stop trolling



_"For Sauron himself was filled with great fear at the wrath of the Valar, and the doom that Eru laid upon sea and land. *It was greater far than aught he had looked for, hoping only for the death of the Numen?reans and the defeat of their proud king.* And Sauron, sitting in his black seat in the midst of the Temple, had laughed when he heard the trumpets of Ar-Pharaz?n sounding for battle; and again he had laughed when he heard the thunder of the storm; and a third time, even as he laughed at his own thought, thinking what he would do now in the world, being rid of the Edain for ever, *he was taken in the midst of his mirth, and his seat and his temple fell into the abyss*"_

Sauron obviously thought he was hot shit since the Valar let him stay in Arda. Much like the readers, he probably thought they were a  bunch of idiots.

Unfortunately, the doom of Numenor was not their doing. Sauron did not expect Eru Himself to pull some Old Testament genocide. That's why he was flushed down the toilet mid-chuckle.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Jan 4, 2012)

Zaelapolopollo said:


> How can you say that? Sauron was a guileful manipulator. His very title is The Deceiver.
> 
> He is far more akin to Sidious, the politician who tricked his way into power,  than Melkor. Melkor, while he occasionally used deception, was pretty much a straightforward Might Makes Right kind of guy.



melkor in the beginning was the great silver tongued devil who convinced others to rebel his fall and decline mirriors siddy allot better than Saurons IMHO



Zaelapolopollo said:


> _"For Sauron himself was filled with great fear at the wrath of the Valar, and the doom that Eru laid upon sea and land. *It was greater far than aught he had looked for, hoping only for the death of the Numen?reans and the defeat of their proud king.* And Sauron, sitting in his black seat in the midst of the Temple, had laughed when he heard the trumpets of Ar-Pharaz?n sounding for battle; and again he had laughed when he heard the thunder of the storm; and a third time, even as he laughed at his own thought, thinking what he would do now in the world, being rid of the Edain for ever, *he was taken in the midst of his mirth, and his seat and his temple fell into the abyss*"_
> 
> Sauron obviously thought he was hot shit since the Valar let him stay in Arda. Much like the readers, he probably thought they were a  bunch of idiots.
> 
> Unfortunately, the doom of Numenor was not their doing. Sauron did not expect Eru Himself to pull some Old Testament genocide. That's why he was flushed down the toilet mid-chuckle.


]

thank you for proving my point when I was too tired last night to go dig up the exact quote gotta admit though it's funny to be called not intelligent or accurate..when I ended up describing exactly what happened but for a literal middle finger lol


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## Zaelapolopollo (Jan 4, 2012)

Still, I think Sauron is being underestimated here. He was quite badass in his own right.He went  up against a very competent and effective fighting force(that occasionally included demigods), as opposed to the stagnant and broken Republic and Jedi.

His feat of bringing about the downfall of the greatest race of Men through cunning and manipulation was just amazing.  It be like me goading you on until you laid siege to the most fortified area on the Earth that also happens to be defended by walking nukes.


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## Wan (Jan 4, 2012)

But can he destroy Star Wars warships with raw power?  That's a no.


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## Fang (Jan 5, 2012)

Obviously Sidious' accomplishment of masterminding a galaxy spanning conspiracy for decades while muddling the precognitive and clairvoyant abilities of an entire order of tens of thousands of psychics while manipulating everything on both sides of the war while the galaxy fucking loves him is not comparable.

Not at all.


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## Riley (Jan 5, 2012)

@Fang 

There were not ten thousand Jedi's during the age of the republic. Also Sauron waged war against the gods and conquered the world through power rather than deception and concealing his presence.


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## pikachuwei (Jan 5, 2012)

actually at the time of Phantom menace iirc it was remarked that the Jedi order stood just around 10,000 strong, (a very low number for the Order)

well so yeah Fang's tens of thousands of jedi is wrong but there were ten thousand jedi.


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## Fang (Jan 5, 2012)

Wrong.

Over a hundred and fifty Jedi Knights and Masters were killed at the Battle of Genosis in the Arena. Over 200 Jedi Knights and Masters survived Order 66, which represents about one percent after Genosis. And the dark shroud was in effect well before the Clone Wars. And this number doesn't include those who joined the Empire, turned to the dark side, etc...(Inquisitors like Jerec, Felin, etc...).

So there were well more then 10,000 Jedi in the Old Order. 2000 died out before Order 66 during the Clone Wars (stated in Laybrinth of Evil the prequel to the RotS novelization), and the later Jedi/Great Purge went into action. And it was pretty much observed that 2 to 3 times as many Jedi died in the first few minutes to hours of Order #66 then the entire war before hand killed.

So yes, its well more then 10-15 thousand Jedi before the Clone Wars.


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## Riley (Jan 5, 2012)

Fang said:


> Wrong.
> 
> Over a hundred and fifty Jedi Knights and Masters were killed at the Battle of Genosis in the Arena. Over 200 Jedi Knights and Masters survived Order 66, which represents about one percent after Genosis. And the dark shroud was in effect well before the Clone Wars. And this number doesn't include those who joined the Empire, turned to the dark side, etc...(Inquisitors like Jerec, Felin, etc...).
> 
> ...





Okay here's the thing though as I said before: Palpatine made his bid for power through deceit and Sauron through might. People which is more impressive? Might of deceit? I love Palpatine but I think screwing over the world through might is right.


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## Fang (Jan 5, 2012)

Reading comprehension. What the fuck does that have to do with the Shroud of the Dark Side.


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## Riley (Jan 5, 2012)

Fang said:


> Reading comprehension. What the fuck does that have to do with the Shroud of the Dark Side.



It's quite simple: which do you think people will find more impressive is my question. Is it Palpatine concealing his presence until Anakin manifested into a powerful enough Jedi and had enough to lose for Palpatine to convert him or Sauron being the most powerful person in LotRverse(+Eye of Sauron which sees all).


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## Fang (Jan 5, 2012)

So nothing to do with anything with that red herring.

Ok.


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## Reddan (Jan 5, 2012)

Riley said:


> It's quite simple: which do you think people will find more impressive is my question. Is it Palpatine concealing his presence until Anakin manifested into a powerful enough Jedi and had enough to lose for Palpatine to convert him or Sauron being the most powerful person in LotRverse(+Eye of Sauron which sees all).



Sauron's eye does not see all. In fact the defenses of Mordor and so strong he cannot even see what happens at the borders, nor can he see into the elven strong holds. Let alone Gandalf. A great part of Sauron's eye was the Palantir.

This has to be said in Palpatine's favour. He waged war against the Jedi his equals and won. Sauron waged war on elves and men, people he was inherently greater than.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jan 5, 2012)

>Impressive



Do you see what I see


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## Neo-jplaya (Jan 5, 2012)

kind of rough.

Palpatine was able to use intelligence, manipulation, and backstabbing to eventually create a galactic monarchy for like 20+ years. on top of that, he took the Srtongest Jedi ever under his control and used him to naerly genocide the race.

Sauron was a demon who tricked all the major races and led to the fall of the 9 kings to frever serve as his undying Wraiths.(well, kind of). even when the fucker died, his will kept his essence around as an eye that can see the sins in human hearts.

I'm going to give this to Sauron, though barely.


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## Fang (Jan 5, 2012)

Jedi are a race?


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## Orochibuto (Jan 5, 2012)

Palpaitne would win against Sauron, Palpatine's resources are nigh-unlimited as emperor and I really doubt he can survive a potentially life-wiping forcestorm. Reborn Palpatine should be able to win against Sauron 1-1 albeit with extreme difficulty.

But Melkor? There is nothing Palpatine can do against Melkor.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Jan 5, 2012)

arednad said:


> Sauron's eye does not see all. In fact the defenses of Mordor and so strong he cannot even see what happens at the borders, nor can he see into the elven strong holds. Let alone Gandalf. A great part of Sauron's eye was the Palantir.
> 
> This has to be said in Palpatine's favour. He waged war against the Jedi his equals and won. Sauron waged war on elves and men, people he was inherently greater than.



Some of the strongest Elves can be compared to Maia in power. 

Same for Palps really. He was stronger than most Jedi but a few were about his level.


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## Riley (Jan 5, 2012)

Fang said:


> Jedi are a race?



Fang....Neo-Jplaya never implied that.


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## Orochibuto (Jan 5, 2012)

Zaelapolopollo said:


> Some of the strongest Elves can be compared to Maia in power.
> 
> Same for Palps really. He was stronger than most Jedi but a few were about his level.



Mace and Yoda to be exact. Though supposedly by the time of TFU Palpatine got stronger than his ROTS counterpart and Reborn was an absolute monster so I guess at the peak of his power no Jedi bar Luke could defeat him.


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## Reddan (Jan 5, 2012)

Neo-jplaya said:


> kind of rough.
> 
> Palpatine was able to use intelligence, manipulation, and backstabbing to eventually create a galactic monarchy for like 20+ years. on top of that, he took the Srtongest Jedi ever under his control and used him to naerly genocide the race.
> 
> ...


Sauron was never an eye. He could never see the sins of human hearts either.


Fang said:


> Jedi are a race?


No, but they are equal force users with the same kind of power as he has. Sauron was fighting weaker types of people. He could not win in a war against his equals.


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## Reddan (Jan 5, 2012)

Zaelapolopollo said:


> Some of the strongest Elves can be compared to Maia in power.
> 
> Same for Palps really. He was stronger than most Jedi but a few were about his level.



This is partly true, but there are only three elves which this can be said about. Luthien the half maia, Glorfindel the resurrected and purified hero of Gondolin and Feanor. Even then with exception of the first two their power could not match most of the stronger Maia. There was simply too great a gap. Galadriel is Feanor's rival in virtually every way, but even she stands no chance against Sauron and little even if she were to take the ring. This is precisely why Maia were NOT allowed to use their full power against humans or elves.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Jan 5, 2012)

And Fingolfin? You don't think he was on par with Maia?


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## Orochibuto (Jan 5, 2012)

Now that I think about it, it would have been way easier to give the ring to Gandalf, he would certaintly be able to overcome Sauron's will and become master of the ring. It was even said that even if the ring corrupted Gandalf he would never go to the level of Sauron or Morgoth. He would simply become a very very ridiculously dictator-like law enforcer.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Jan 5, 2012)

Except that the Ring would in turn master him. 

The Ring was not just Sauron's power.It was a concentration of his malice and evil. Even if Gandalf were to overpower it, you cannot walk away from such an event unscathed. He would be corrupted by it, even if he did not serve it.

This is said by Gandalf himself I believe.


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## Reddan (Jan 5, 2012)

Orochibuto said:


> Now that I think about it, it would have been way easier to give the ring to Gandalf, he would certaintly be able to overcome Sauron's will and become master of the ring.



Yes, but how is that a good thing? Get rid of one dark lord and replace him with another. Tolkien actually writes what would happen if Gandalf took and claimed the ring. Basically he would be worse than Sauron, since he would be evil, but blur the lines between good and evil. In the case of Sauron it was clear to everyone he was an evil demon, with Gandalf it would be hard to judge.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Jan 5, 2012)

Sauron started off with noble intentions too though. It would basically be a repeat of everything that happened in the early Second Age when Sauron was good-looking and most people liked him.


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## Reddan (Jan 5, 2012)

Zaelapolopollo said:


> And Fingolfin? You don't think he was on par with Maia?



No. He was not. He was simply the strongest and best elf in a fight. In a fight he beats every other elf, but he does not have the power of others. He does not have the power over nature/magic that the Maia does.


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## Orochibuto (Jan 5, 2012)

arednad said:


> Yes, but how is that a good thing? Get rid of one dark lord and replace him with another. Tolkien actually writes what would happen if Gandalf took and claimed the ring. Basically he would be worse than Sauron, since he would be evil, but blur the lines between good and evil. In the case of Sauron it was clear to everyone he was an evil demon, with Gandalf it would be hard to judge.



It was said Gandalf would never reach the level of Sauron or Morgoth. He would simply enforce a ridiculoulsy harsh justice and order.


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## Reddan (Jan 5, 2012)

Orochibuto said:


> It was said Gandalf would never reach the level of Sauron or Morgoth. He would simply enforce a ridiculoulsy harsh justice and order.



No quite the opposite. It is said he would be worse. Since he would be self-righteous and make people hate good.

*Gandalf as Ring-Lord would have been far worse than Sauron. He would have remained 'righteous', but self-righteous. He would have continued to rule and order things for 'good', and the benefit of his subjects according to his wisdom (which was and would have remained great).

[The draft ends here. In the margin Tolkien wrote: 'Thus while Sauron multiplied [illegible word] evil, he left "good" clearly distinguishable from it. Gandalf would have made good detestable and seem evil.'] *


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Jan 5, 2012)

people still assume Sauron was a gigantic eyeball oh lawd...IIRC I'm pretty sure he had a physical body when the white council faced him at dul guldur and that was decades before the events of fellowship..

looking back on it IIRC he may have had a palantir which helped him out.

Palpatine getting the ring might give him physically immortality or prolong the fuck out of his life..in a not so pleasant way, may also boost his stats a tiny bit..but considering the PL he operates at EU wise any beefing is gonna be negligible


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## Fang (Jan 5, 2012)

Probably makes him in his prime Clone body as at his "youth" peak age not degenerate any faster, maybe slower then his original body.


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## pikachuwei (Jan 5, 2012)

Fang said:


> Wrong.
> 
> Over a hundred and fifty Jedi Knights and Masters were killed at the Battle of Genosis in the Arena. Over 200 Jedi Knights and Masters survived Order 66, which represents about one percent after Genosis. And the dark shroud was in effect well before the Clone Wars. And this number doesn't include those who joined the Empire, turned to the dark side, etc...(Inquisitors like Jerec, Felin, etc...).
> 
> ...



In the Phantom Menace Visual Dictionary (the counterpart to the vehicles cross section book) it directly stated iirc that the Jedi Order was only about 10,000 at the start of Phantom Menace.

Though it's been a while since I read it (a few years actually)


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Jan 5, 2012)

Fang said:


> Probably makes him in his prime Clone body as at his "youth" peak age not degenerate any faster, maybe slower then his original body.



well it depends if he can pull what Gandalf might have done..and subvert it sort of "take Saurons place" he may be spared the degeneration and mental instability of Gollum..and it would make his body last hundreds of years but it might not be the most pleasant experience


I know that the nine..of them some were able to last longer before falling than others "each according to his will" not the best comparison given the difference between the nine and one..but the idea of someone as powerful as sidious doing what Gandalf might have should be very much a possiblity 

at which point no clue what would happen..


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## Orochibuto (Jan 6, 2012)

If Sidious did that would most likely attain the effects that his clone young bodies would be as strong as his original young body. And that's it, maybe make his presence more sinister and threatening.

Now..... if Papatine attained Melkor's powers that would be interesting.


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## Bender (Feb 5, 2012)

Sauron one of the creators of the universe while Palpatine is someone who is wanked to hell and back for being able to conjure up Force storms. 

Sauron easily. 

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXxbZqIaZv8&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

Taunting the fellowship with the mouth of Sauron. 

@Orochibuto

Dude do you know who Sauron is? He would massacre Palpatine.


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