# Minato vs. Tobirama (portrayal)



## trance (Jun 3, 2014)

Who has the superior portrayal?


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## Cognitios (Jun 4, 2014)

Base Minato?
I'd say Tobirama has a stronger portrayal to minato, he was said to be around the level of EMS Madara, by madara himself. 
KCM Minato takes the cake though.

Tobirama is basically Minato with slightly lower speed, greater attack range, more versatility, and a bit smarter.


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## J★J♥ (Jun 4, 2014)

LoL Thread. lol Minato. Lol Minatofans.



Cognitios said:


> Tobirama is basically Minato with slightly lower speed



Lol post


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## Cognitios (Jun 4, 2014)

> Lol post


Did you read the rest of my post?


> *greater attack range, more versatility, a bit smarter*


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## Kyu (Jun 4, 2014)

> -Soloed the Third Great Ninja War
> -Became a Sage
> -Put a baby into Kushina's belly (title character's dad)
> -Saved his newborn son, his wife, and the village in a single night
> ...



Minato by a hair.


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## ueharakk (Jun 4, 2014)

Tobirama admitted inferiority to base minato on multiple occasions.

Admits inferiority in regards to shunshin/space time
*Praises minato again.*
*admits inferiority in regards to space/time*

Minato is the most humble of all the hokage, you can tell by the honorifics he uses and how he speaks to his teamates, yet he never admits inferiority like Tobirama does.  

Then there's the fact that minato only gets harmed by the juubi jins, and still majorly contributes at the current level despite having only one or no arms while Tobirama got taken out by the weakest juubi jin and one eyed rinnegan madara.


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## Veracity (Jun 4, 2014)

Minato by a landslide although Tobirama is superior to base Minato by feats. Bjuii Minato is just out of the question .


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## ARGUS (Jun 4, 2014)

Minato is portrayed to be above tobirama especially when tobirama has admitted inferiority


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## Itachі (Jun 4, 2014)

Minato is portrayed as more powerful than Tobirama, he was hyped by many people. Tobirama wasn't really spoken about a lot and Minato was kind of shown as the definitive shinobi.


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## Trojan (Jun 4, 2014)

Not even close. 


Tobirama some hype going for him.
1- From the ANBU [1].
2- Danzo [1]
3- Madara [1]

So, Tobirama was the fastest during his area, and was the strongest in the village when he was the Hokage. 

Minato has a lot of hype.

From Tobirama [1][2][3][4] . 
From B [1][2].
From A [1][2]
From Naruto [1][2][3][4][5]
From Jiraiya [1][2][3][4][5][6]
From Tsunade [1][2]
Hiruzen [1]
Fodders (villages) [1][2][3]
kakashi [1]
obito [1]
itachi [1]
Minato [1][2]
Kushina [1]
Kurama [1]
Zetsu (Kaguya) [1]
Hagoromo [1]
Madara []

That's other than their battles.

Tobirama lost to kin and Gin, even with help from another kage the first time, and has no chance even with his 6 students the second time.
While Minato was dealing with both A & B at the same time, who were hailed as the strongest tag team in kumo. 

Tobirama defeated feat-less Izuna, while Minato defeated Obito and dealt with full Kurama after that. 

that's other than ending the 3rd war and his feats in this current war. 



> Tobirama is basically Minato with slightly lower speed,


slightly is enough to use the S/T barrier, to put the Kunais around the Juubi, and to have a conversation with his child before Tobirama could even arrive? 


> greater attack range


How do you know that? Minato's long named jutsu clearly portrayed to be superior to Tobirama's attack.


> , more versatility,


based on what? OR what are those things that Tobirama is better than Minato at?


> and a bit smarter.


based on what?


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## Icegaze (Jun 4, 2014)

Portrayal is fairly vague word though 
like initially tobirama was potrayed to be weaker than minato but since he fought in the war i see them on par 

also note 2 of minato only shown techniques were created by tobirama. 

Tobirama has also gotten hype from madara, from minato himself, from saru, from suigetsu 

also note tobirama jutsu has been stated to be the most powerful no risk jutsu by kabuto 

I cant in my right mind say minato is portrayed as superior 

minato is simply a slightly faster copy of tobirama


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## Ƶero (Jun 4, 2014)

Other than the multiple times Tobirama admitted inferiority in the war to base Minato.

Tobirama with back up got beat by the Kin Gin fodders. Minato on the other hand was soloing cloud Jonins sent to capture kyuubi while in the academy, had a flee on sight order and took on the strongest duo in Cloud and could've killed them both but showed mercy.


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## Cognitios (Jun 4, 2014)

Tobirama beat MS Izuna
MS Madara >= MS Izuna
When was the last time base Minato beat anyone without killing himself that was at least mid kage level?


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jun 4, 2014)

Tobirama had better portrayal in certain areas.
Although I'd say Minato is stronger feat and hype-wise.


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## Kai (Jun 4, 2014)

Tobirama is hyped for his speed and as a scientist/innovator of ninjutsu.

Minato was portrayed as "The One" for the longest time in the manga, which includes his potential in the prophecy as well as Jiraiya's take on his ability being "first among all." Hype by Hiruzen that is absent for Tobirama and last but not least, he usurped Tobirama as the fastest shinobi.


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## Trojan (Jun 4, 2014)

Cognitios said:


> Tobirama beat MS Izuna
> MS Madara >= MS Izuna
> When was the last time base Minato beat anyone without killing himself that was at least mid kage level?



and who said that madara is only ">=" MS Izuna? 
and do not even try to bring itachi's words, not only he turned out to be completely wrong and
ignorance by Hashi's story, but he was not even talking about MS Madara and MS Izuna to begin with!

Also, I believe A and B are more than mid kage level. 
Tobirama couldn't even handle Kin and Gin who are barely jonin level. 
they couldn't even handle Darui and with some chunin latter on. 

Edit:


There is no where did itachi state that they were "equal". In addition, he was not even talking about MS madara, and MS Izuna, but rather
he was talking about pre-sharingan, since the panel after that he was talking about their awakening of the sharingan.

and again, Hashirama's story shat all over itachi's. Even Izuna does not believe the crap that itachi was saying.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Jun 4, 2014)

They're strong in different areas, but Minato has the better portrayal overall.

That doesn't mean he's much weaker, however, as I don't think Tobirama is far off from Itachi and Minato; he just lacks the panel time they have.

To the individuals saying he's weak: Minato would get raped by Kin-Gin Squad, as well.
There's no way he is taking on those guys (on top of 20 Jounin).


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## Phoenix Zoro (Jun 4, 2014)

I think Minato has the better portrayal. Fact is, being the main character's father in shounen manga is almost an auto top tier free pass. On top of that, Minato has been portrayed as a genius even among geniuses. Tobirama has very good hype too obviously being hokage, but he has always been in his brother's shadow and openly admitted inferiority to Minato.


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## StarWanderer (Dec 12, 2014)

People do not pay attention to the fact Tobirama's speed feats are better than Minato's. Tobirama put a teleportation formula and several explosive tags on Juubito when he had confrontation with Juubito. At the same time, BM Minato did nothing to Juubito, was easily defeated by him and lost his arm. 

The only thing where base Minato is superior to Tobirama is his Hiraishin technique. Thats all. And, in my opinion, Tobirama has a superior portrayal. At least in War Arc.


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## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Dec 12, 2014)

Minato by a landlslide.

Even the current databook feels the need to tell us 3 separate times that Minato took the FTG to beyond perfection and surpasses tobiramas own. Minatos speed is in a different class as well. Arriving on the battlefield 6 manga pages before Tobirama arrived.

Minato actually becoming a sage, unlike tobirama who couldn't like his brother. Minato toying with Ay and Bee duo, while Tobirama being put on the verge of death by Kinkaku and Ginkaku. 

Minato wiping out 50 ninjas in a second, while Tobirama is dying to 20.

The you have bijuu mode Minato o_O, can't even mention tobirama here. Saving the ninja entire ninja alliance twice in one war. Can tobirama even dream to replicate such a thing? Last Hokage standing in the war was also Minato.

Minato being named the savior and child of prophecy by multiple people. Minato also being about 3 times younger than tobirama is also quite phenomenal, considering the level he reached in such a short time. 

Best part about him is that it's all natural talent. No clan, no kekkei genkai or kekkei touta, no special chakra or incarnate, no rikudo bull crap, all his accomplishments were before he became a Jinchuuriki.

Hype and portrayal go to Minato in abundance.

And the people who are saying Tobirama beat Izuna lol. MS Obito >>>>>>> Izuna, and minato stomped him. Tobirama had been battling izuna for how many years since childhood before beating him? And I always laugh when people say tobirama is smarter, I'll agree he's more knowledgable due to experience and age, but thats it. In terms of intelligence feats, Minato even has more than tobirama.


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## StarWanderer (Dec 13, 2014)

RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki said:


> Minato by a landlslide.
> 
> Even the current databook feels the need to tell us 3 separate times that Minato took the FTG to beyond perfection and surpasses tobiramas own. Minatos speed is in a different class as well. Arriving on the battlefield 6 manga pages before Tobirama arrived.
> 
> ...



Minato's shunshin and space-time ninjutsu speed is higher. But thats the only 2 things where Minato is better than Tobirama. When Tobirama had confrontation with Juubito, he put a FTG formula and several explosive tags at him, and what did BM Minato when he had confrontation with Juubito? Did nothing, was defeated and lost his arm? Tobirama is faster and has better reaction speed. Because he was faster than BM Minato. Base Minato gets wrecked by Tobirama.

And do we know how Tobirama realy died? We dont know the detailes of his death and his fight with Hunkaku and Ginkaku. So why bringing this up here? 

Minato never used Sage Mode before 4 World War and he admitted he is not very good with it. Anyway, if Tobirama is faster than BM Minato, he is, for sure, faster than SM Minato. 

Tobirama wrecks base Minato.


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## RedChidori (Dec 13, 2014)

Minato no contest. I'm not saying that out of bias either. The manga made it pretty clear that potrayal wise,   > .


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## JuicyG (Dec 13, 2014)

Cognitios said:


> Tobirama beat MS Izuna
> MS Madara >= MS Izuna
> When was the last time base Minato beat anyone without killing himself that was at least mid kage level?



Do you really not consider Minato besting Obito who had full intel on his former Teacher with Minato have zero intel on the kamui abilities and still wins not a legitimate feat against the Uchiha clan ? 

And besides, last time I checked there was a thread made and everyone put Izuna on the bottom the rankings that included Madara, Itachi, Obito, Sasuke and Shisui. Yet here he have him nearly equal to Madara. Which is it ?


Nearly everyone places Izuna on the bottom portion of the Uchiha rankings. Yet you have him EMS Madara >= Izuna level 



Tobirama's hype comes from being a senju brother to Hashirama, being the genius creator of FTG + ET whereas Minato's literally stems from being a prodigy, a talent that only comes once in a decade. 
Blaze Release-enhanced arrows 

He had flee on sight orders and he was especially mourned when Orochimaru evaded Konoha, they spoke of wishing he was still here to protect them.


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## Complete_Ownage (Dec 13, 2014)

IF there is a difference in level between Minato & Tobirama it's miniscule at best. The match will come down to who makes the first mistake or get's caught off guard. In my opinion it will be Tobirama who comes out victorious since hes smarter, more tactical, more experienced, nad ha better sensing & reactions

Edo Tensei is an entirely different story and easily favors Minato


Minato:
Better FTG - AS IN prepped kunai
Better Shushin
Faster speed
Rasengan

Tobirama:
Better Reaction
Better Sensing
Better smarts - Battle interlect, jutsu recognition etc
Edo Tensei


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## Complete_Ownage (Dec 13, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Do you really not consider Minato besting Obito who had full intel on his former Teacher with Minato have zero intel on the kamui abilities and still wins not a legitimate feat against the Uchiha clan ?
> 
> And besides, last time I checked there was a thread made and everyone put Izuna on the bottom the rankings that included Madara, Itachi, Obito, Sasuke and Shisui. Yet here he have him nearly equal to Madara. Which is it ?



Izuna should be somehwere in the middle of that list behind Madara, Sasuke, and Obito. MS Izuna like shisui is a guessing game at best and all we have is hype to go by. If you want to go by hype IZuna & Shishui should be stronger then Itachi

The thing with Tobirama vs Izuna should not be used in any argument since Izuna died early in life and Tobirama had YEARS of living to get stronger.


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## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Dec 13, 2014)

Complete_Ownage said:


> Izuna should be somehwere in the middle of that list behind Madara, Sasuke, and Obito. MS Izuna like shisui is a guessing game at best and all we have is hype to go by. If you want to go by hype IZuna & Shishui should be stronger then Itachi
> 
> The thing with Tobirama vs Izuna should not be used in any argument since Izuna died early in life and Tobirama had YEARS of living to get stronger.



Excuses excuses.

The question he asked you was why you and your bias fail to acknowledge Minatos impressive win against Obito in a 1 v 1. Like he said all the advantages were in his favour, including intel, prep and superior space time ninjutsu. Minato on he he other hand had 0 intel, had other issues to worry about like the kyuubi attacking the village, his wife's condition and his sons safety. And yet look at the outcome, he won in under 2 minutes . On the other hand, Tobirama who has been fighting Izuna since childhood to adulthood, after all their battles was able to best him for the first time. At least Tobirama knew the capabilities of his opponent. That right there is one of the clear differences and portrayal of Minatos superiority. Obito at the time of facing minato was arguably the strongest to 2nd strongest uchiha to ever live, and minato only needed a minute to beat him.

Then you have minato who faced the strongest duo of the cloud village multiple times, but was still superior to them. Then you have the previous strongest duo of the hidden cloud (gold and silver bros) who not only didn't fear Tobirama, they're the ones that killed him.

The next generation surpasses the previous. Sad some don't realise this.


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## StarWanderer (Dec 13, 2014)

RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki said:


> Excuses excuses.
> 
> The question he asked you was why you and your bias fail to acknowledge Minatos impressive win against Obito in a 1 v 1. Like he said all the advantages were in his favour, including intel, prep and superior space time ninjutsu. Minato on he he other hand had 0 intel, had other issues to worry about like the kyuubi attacking the village, his wife's condition and his sons safety. And yet look at the outcome, he won in under 2 minutes . On the other hand, Tobirama who has been fighting Izuna since childhood to adulthood, after all their battles was able to best him for the first time. At least Tobirama knew the capabilities of his opponent. That right there is one of the clear differences and portrayal of Minatos superiority. Obito at the time of facing minato was arguably the strongest to 2nd strongest uchiha to ever live, and minato only needed a minute to beat him.
> 
> ...



Yeah, against young, unexperienced, below his prime boy Obito. I'd like to see Minato against prime Obito during Shinobi World War.


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## Complete_Ownage (Dec 13, 2014)

RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki said:


> Excuses excuses.
> 
> The question he asked you was why you and your bias fail to acknowledge Minatos impressive win against Obito in a 1 v 1. Like he said all the advantages were in his favour, including intel, prep and superior space time ninjutsu. Minato on he he other hand had 0 intel, had other issues to worry about like the kyuubi attacking the village, his wife's condition and his sons safety. And yet look at the outcome, he won in under 2 minutes . On the other hand, Tobirama who has been fighting Izuna since childhood to adulthood, after all their battles was able to best him for the first time. At least Tobirama knew the capabilities of his opponent. That right there is one of the clear differences and portrayal of Minatos superiority. Obito at the time of facing minato was arguably the strongest to 2nd strongest uchiha to ever live, and minato only needed a minute to beat him.




Excuses? I think you have me confused with someone else. Not once did I ever mention or downplay Minatos abilties or battles 



> Then you have minato who faced the strongest duo of the cloud village multiple times, but was still superior to them. Then you have the previous strongest duo of the hidden cloud (gold and silver bros) who not only didn't fear Tobirama, they're the ones that killed him.



I wonder why Minato is superior to Raikage & Bee...hmm could it be FTG. What does Tobirama have again?

Yes two psycho mini jins who poccess the 5 sage tools and highly skilled force of 20 shionobi trained to track down and eliminate targets...The only way Minato can defeat these two is by giving his own life so whats the point of this argument




> The next generation surpasses the previous. Sad some don't realise this.



People still beleive this shit? ONLY a select FEW surpass the previous generation. Hashirama would still shit on anyone not named Naruto & Sasuke


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## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Dec 13, 2014)

Complete_Ownage said:


> Excuses? I think you have me confused with someone else. Not once did I ever mention or downplay Minatos abilties or battles
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Didn't downplay minato, are you hearing yourself. You specifically questioned Minato beating any Kage level ninja. Which is funny considering that minato has only ever been in 1 real fight, which was against Obito. 

Too bad tobiramas FTG isn't the same level as Minatos. I don't think I need to copy and paste all the databook statements that mention this over and over again.

Those 2 psycho Jins were drafted by Darui and Ino Shika cho. They left Tobirama on the verge of death the first time and the second time it wasn't even them. It was just their 20nin squad(meanwhile minato is wiping out platoons single handedly in war, and killing 50 in seconds). Despite having Kagami, Hiruzen and Danzo, Tobirama and his team couldn't take them smh. They weren't even real Jins, unlike killer bee who was a perfect Jin (yet killer bee trembles at the mention of his name). Saddest part is that if tobiramas FTG was so great, why didn't he teleport his team home?

Hashirama was surpassed by Naruto. So yes the statement is true. Only reason the other Hokage disnt surpass him is because Hashriama is the transmigrant of the sage of six paths son. So of course the next transmigrant (Naruto) is the only one capable of surpassing him.


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## StarWanderer (Dec 13, 2014)

RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki said:


> Didn't downplay minato, are you hearing yourself. You specifically questioned Minato beating any Kage level ninja. Which is funny considering that minato has only ever been in 1 real fight, which was against Obito.
> 
> Too bad tobiramas FTG isn't the same level as Minatos. I don't think I need to copy and paste all the databook statements that mention this over and over again.
> 
> Those 2 psycho Jins were drafted by Darui and Ino Shika cho. They left Tobirama on the verge of death the first time and the second time it wasn't even them. It was just their 20nin squad(meanwhile minato is wiping out platoons single handedly in war, and killing 50 in seconds). Despite having Kagami, Hiruzen and Danzo, Tobirama and his team couldn't take them smh. They weren't even real Jins, unlike killer bee who was a perfect Jin (yet killer bee trembles at the mention of his name). Saddest part is that if tobiramas FTG was so great, why didn't he teleport his team home?



Do we know the exact details of Tobirama's death? Is his death portrayed in manga/anime/databook? 

And beating Obito is such a "great" feat. Obito gave him some trouble despite being young and unexperienced. Dont know how that puts Minato higher than Tobirama.


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## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Dec 13, 2014)

StarWanderer said:


> Do we know the exact details of Tobirama's death? Is his death portrayed in manga/anime/databook?
> 
> And beating Obito is such a "great" feat. Obito gave him some trouble despite being young and unexperienced. Dont know how that puts Minato higher than Tobirama.



Can you old stop replying to me, all your comments are worthless. Naruto defeated all the main villains despite being young and inexperienced.. Your point?

Since when was age a factor of ones power?


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## Complete_Ownage (Dec 13, 2014)

RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki said:


> Didn't downplay minato, are you hearing yourself. You specifically questioned Minato beating any Kage level ninja. Which is funny considering that minato has only ever been in 1 real fight, which was against Obito.



Once again your talking to the wrong person. Please provide anything ive said that has downplayed Minatos ability



> Too bad tobiramas FTG isn't the same level as Minatos. I don't think I need to copy and paste all the databook statements that mention this over and over again.



Yes we already know this...very good welcome to 2 years ago



> > Those 2 psycho Jins were drafted by Darui and Ino Shika cho.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



True however that was just one example. Most of the previous generation still shits on this current generation by a lot


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## StarWanderer (Dec 15, 2014)

RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki said:


> Can you old stop replying to me, all your comments are worthless. Naruto defeated all the main villains despite being young and inexperienced.. Your point?
> 
> Since when was age a factor of ones power?



That was Naruto, with much higher potential and with feats. What feats young Obito has? What has he done when he was young? And do you realy think Minato could beat War Obito? Obito clearly improved since than.


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