# 13 year old commits suicide after bullying & being called a snitch



## Kira Yamato (Apr 7, 2013)

*Georgia middle-schooler commits suicide after bullying, being called 'snitch,' dad says*




> By Elizabeth Chuck, Staff Writer, NBC News
> 
> A 13-year-old Georgia boy who hanged himself after reportedly being bullied at school was remembered by family and friends as a hero at his funeral this week.
> 
> ...


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## Louis-954 (Apr 7, 2013)

I know I'm going to get negged and I really don't mean to sound insensitive but wtf is it with this generation of kids? They need to sack up and start sticking up for themselves a bit more.  I'm finding it harder and harder these days to sympathize with these kids.


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## Gunners (Apr 7, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> I know I'm going to get negged and I really don't mean to sound insensitive but wtf is it with this generation of kids? They need to sack up and start sticking up for themselves a bit more.  I'm finding it harder and harder these days to sympathize with these kids.


You have to look at the situation as a whole. If he was dealing with kids who stuck to smearing peanut butter all over him and calling him mean names then I'd be more inclined to say that what he did was an overreaction. However what he dealt with was more serious than that, if a kid is crazy enough to bring a knife to school and muse about stabbing a teacher I can understand why a kid would be terrified if that kid and his friends wanted to fuck him up.


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## Ennoea (Apr 7, 2013)

He was 15 and being bullied by everyone, maybe abit over sensitive but he was just a kid.


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## RF (Apr 7, 2013)

Suicide is pointless.

He should have picked up a rock and smashed it off of the bullies face. All problems solved.


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## siyrean (Apr 7, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> I know I'm going to get negged and I really don't mean to sound insensitive but wtf is it with this generation of kids? They need to sack up and start sticking up for themselves a bit more.  I'm finding it harder and harder these days to sympathize with these kids.



it's not this generation, it's social media making these tragedies more public.


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## lucky (Apr 7, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> I know I'm going to get negged and I really don't mean to sound insensitive but wtf is it with this generation of kids? They need to sack up and start sticking up for themselves a bit more.  I'm finding it harder and harder these days to sympathize with these kids.



There are as many personalities as there are colours of the rainbow.  Some are sociopaths, others are average, and some are hyper sensitive people. Something you find easy to deal with could be exponentially more difficult for others.


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## Sōsuke Aizen (Apr 7, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> Suicide is pointless.
> 
> He should have picked up a rock and smashed it off of the bullies face. All problems solved.



No, that would only exacerbate the problem. This is a guy who commit suicide after being called snitch; being called murderer or demon would be worse. On top of that, he would've been kicked out of school, thus ruining his education and subjected to beatings worse than ever before such that he wouldn't leave his home until many years later.


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## RF (Apr 7, 2013)

♚Sōsuke Aizen♚ said:


> No, that would only exacerbate the problem. This is a guy who commit suicide after being called snitch; being called murderer or demon would be worse. On top of that, he would've been kicked out of school, thus ruining his education and subjected to beatings worse than ever before such that he wouldn't leave his home until many years later.



I might have over-exaggerated there for a moment,but there were many other alternatives besides suicide that would have worked just fine.

Taking your own life at the age of 13,because of bullying is flat out iditoic. No matter how much sensitive he was,it's stupid that he decided to take the cowards way out instead of doing something about it.  He didn't even bother to have a serious talk about it with his parents or authorities,but rather,he decides to kill himself and take away from himself who knows how much pleasure and happiness he was going to experience,permanently scarring his entire family,relatives and friends because someone called him a snitch. Pointless. Ridiculous. Not heroic _at all_.


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## Enclave (Apr 7, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> I know I'm going to get negged and I really don't mean to sound insensitive but wtf is it with this generation of kids? They need to sack up and start sticking up for themselves a bit more.  I'm finding it harder and harder these days to sympathize with these kids.



I personally find it harder and harder to feel any kind of sympathy for people who excuse bullying.  Anybody who makes comments like yours I suspect did not get bullied as a kid.

Hell, one of the guys who bullied me threatened to kill me with a gun.

Seriously, I never condone suicide however I TOTALLY get how kids at that age could think life will never get any better and that they'd rather just not be alive.  I never quite got that bad but I understand it.


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Apr 7, 2013)

Brown voiced his concerns to Rothschild Middle School, but officials told him they hadn't heard of any issues, he said.


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## Renegade Knight (Apr 7, 2013)

This is a damn shame.

If the teachers and staff aren't listening to this poor boy's pleas, then he should've gone to the police.
Who cares if you're called a snitch? I'd rather be a snitch than be bullied 24/7.


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## Enclave (Apr 7, 2013)

Renegade Knight said:


> This is a damn shame.
> 
> If the teachers and staff aren't listening to this poor boy's pleas, then he should've gone to the police.
> Who cares if you're called a snitch? I'd rather be a snitch than be bullied 24/7.



When you're that age you generally think if the teachers won't do anything then nobody will.

Hell, my grade 8 math teacher about 10 years ago actually saw my mom at her work and apologised to her for not realising how bad the bullying was at the school I went to.  He said that the school was trying to do something about it.  Thing is?  I was 21 at the time he apologised so my moms response to him was "A little late for my son isn't it?".

Hell, my grade 7 teacher at one time told our class that if any of us were being bullied to come and tell him.  I went to tell him at recess only for him to call me a liar and to stop trying to get people in trouble.


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## Louis-954 (Apr 7, 2013)

> You have to look at the situation as a whole. If he was dealing with  kids who stuck to smearing peanut butter all over him and calling him  mean names then I'd be more inclined to say that what he did was an  overreaction. However what he dealt with was more serious than that, if a  kid is crazy enough to bring a knife to school and muse about stabbing a  teacher *I can understand why a kid would be terrified if that kid and  his friends wanted to fuck him up.*


So the preferred alternative is to hang oneself. It doesn't make sense.


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## Chelydra (Apr 7, 2013)

Your talking like kids are able to rationalize and think things through.


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## eHav (Apr 7, 2013)

people who let themselves get bullied come here defending the kids that suicide, people who never get bullied come here saying suiciding is a stupid thing to do. i tend to agree with the second kind people more often than not.


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Apr 7, 2013)

conflict counselor should be a real job at every school..


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## happiholic (Apr 7, 2013)

I have to wonder, for the people who don't have any sympathy for this boy, were any of you actually bullied in school, and at the age of only 13? I was, and I can understand where he was coming from. The feeling of dread at the thought of going to school is absolutely awful. At that age, school is pretty much you world, and although now I see what the options I had back then were, I didn't really see them at the time. And even when some of my issues did make it to a teachers ears all she did was smile at me and say, "I heard some kids were saying some not very nice things about you. That's too bad". But, she did nothing to help. I think its because, unfortunately, at that age sometimes issues are just seen as "teenage angst" and brushed off, when there is really a serious issue.

@eHav: Would people who have experienced bullying not have a better perspective, though? I mean, how can you make such a definitive statement on a situation you have never experienced?


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## WT (Apr 7, 2013)

Pretty fucked up. I'm certain the kid was going through quite the trauma. Its always sad to see things ending up like this. 

Taking a knife into school and constant bullying should result in a far more serious punishment.


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## Kotre (Apr 7, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> So the preferred alternative is to hang oneself. It doesn't make sense.



Welcome to the world of mental health problems. Kid probably had undiagnosed depression.



Chelydra said:


> Your talking like kids are able to rationalize and think things through.



They can. Children aren't stupid.



eHav said:


> people who let themselves get bullied come here defending the kids that suicide, people who never get bullied come here saying suiciding is a stupid thing to do. i tend to agree with the second kind people more often than not.



As a general rule, avoid blaming the victim in any situation.


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## Renegade Knight (Apr 7, 2013)

Enclave said:


> When you're that age you generally think if the teachers won't do anything then nobody will.
> 
> Hell, my grade 8 math teacher about 10 years ago actually saw my mom at her work and apologised to her for not realising how bad the bullying was at the school I went to.  He said that the school was trying to do something about it.  Thing is?  I was 21 at the time he apologised so my moms response to him was "A little late for my son isn't it?".
> 
> Hell, my grade 7 teacher at one time told our class that if any of us were being bullied to come and tell him.  I went to tell him at recess only for him to call me a liar and to stop trying to get people in trouble.



Your teachers sound like a bunch of incompetent assholes.
You have every right to be mad at them.
They say that they are there to help you, but when you go to them with a problem, they can't do shit.



Khris said:


> conflict counselor should be a real job at every school..



This.


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## RF (Apr 7, 2013)

happiholic said:


> I have to wonder, for the people who don't have any sympathy for this boy, were any of you actually bullied in school, and at the age of only 13?



Yes,I was. From the very beginning of elementary school until high school when I transferred.

People should stop considering teenagers children. They are not. They are teenagers. They are able to use their brains to the extent where they can figure out by themselves that suicide is stupid,and that their school days are going to have zero actual relevance on the rest of their lives.(besides grades of course) At least I was able to think like that.

From the information provided,we can conclude that the kid wasn't even seriously trying to do something about it. Simply saying to someone that you're bullied is something that most adult people wouldn't pay too much attention to,since in most cases,the bullying is quite harmless. But this is an exception. The kid could have at least noted the seriousness of the situation he was in,before killing himself,which is I repeat,idiotic. Hell,insted of actually killing himself,he could have just threatened to kill himself,and things would have gotten care of.


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## happiholic (Apr 7, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> Yes,I was. From the very beginning of elementary school until high school when I transferred.
> 
> People should stop considering teenagers children. They are not. They are teenagers. They are able to use their brains to the extent where they can figure out by themselves that suicide is stupid,and that their school days are going to have zero actual relevance on the rest of their lives.(besides grades of course) At least I was able to think like that.
> 
> From the information provided,we can conclude that the kid wasn't even seriously trying to do something about it. Simply saying to someone that you're bullied is something that most adult people wouldn't pay too much attention to,since in most cases,the bullying is quite harmless. But this is an exception. The kid could have at least noted the seriousness of the situation he was in,before killing himself,which is I repeat,idiotic. Hell,insted of actually killing himself,he could have just threatened to kill himself,and things would have gotten care of.


Teenagers are of course smarter than children, but they are not as rational as a fully formed adult. Many lack life experience. There are, of course, exceptions, but I know that at 13 I did not behave or think the way I do now. And I honestly don't think that many people are the exception.

Also, I doubt that threatening to kill himself would have helped the situation. Going back to my earlier point of people taking serious issues as just teenage drama, it would probably have been seen that way.


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## eHav (Apr 7, 2013)

happiholic said:


> Teenagers are of course smarter than children, but they are not as rational as a fully formed adult. Many lack life experience. There are, of course, exceptions, but I know that at 13 I did not behave or think the way I do now. And I honestly don't think that many people are the exception.
> 
> Also, I doubt that threatening to kill himself would have helped the situation. Going back to my earlier point of people taking serious issues as just teenage drama, it would probably have been seen that way.



not by your parents it wouldnt. unless they were shitty ones anyway. if i as much got home with a bruise, my parents would want to know why and how it happened. thats what parents do, they care and they look out for their kids


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## RF (Apr 7, 2013)

happiholic said:


> Teenagers are of course smarter than children, but they are not as rational as a fully formed adult. Many lack life experience. There are, of course, exceptions, but I know that at 13 I did not behave or think the way I do now. And I honestly don't think that many people are the exception.



All he had to do is sit down,and thoroughly think of the situation he was in,while looking at the options he had on how to get out of the situation,and whether suicide is the right decision or not. You don't have to be a bloody genius to do that. 

Honestly,you people act as if teenagers are mentally retarded. They are not. Or at least the ones of my generation weren't.



happiholic said:


> Also, I doubt that threatening to kill himself would have helped the situation. Going back to my earlier point of people taking serious issues as just teenage drama, it would probably have been seen that way.



Standing on the rooftop of the school for a while before someone comes and talks you out of killing yourself should do the trick.


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## happiholic (Apr 7, 2013)

eHav said:


> not by your parents it wouldnt. unless they were shitty ones anyway. if i as much got home with a bruise, my parents would want to know why and how it happened. thats what parents do, they care and they look out for their kids



It depends on the situation, though. Even parents with good intentions sometimes over look the problems of their kids. They have their own stress and when they get home from work they just don't have it in them. I've watched documentaries where parents admit to not listening to their kids when they walk through the door, and give generic answers, while not really paying attention. Or, single mothers who are away from home and away from their kids, just to put a roof over their head. And of course, some parents just don't listen. I had a friend who had to beg and plead and wait for the situation to really escalate before her parents let her change schools.


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## Seto Kaiba (Apr 7, 2013)

And the school tries to wash its hand of the situation, what a surprise.


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## Mael (Apr 7, 2013)

Again that stigma about "snitching."

The fuck ever happened to civic duty?  Maybe the draft SHOULD come back...teach these little fucks a lesson.


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## Pilaf (Apr 7, 2013)

He should have committed homicide instead.


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## Pliskin (Apr 7, 2013)

Mael said:


> Again that stigma about "snitching."
> 
> The fuck ever happened to civic duty?  Maybe the draft SHOULD come back...teach these little fucks a lesson.



Yeah that's what I don't get about the story. A psycho brings a weapon to school and the one telling on him becomes a pariah? 

It's as if school massacres never happened. Funny thing is, had something happened, everyone would without a doubt repeat the old mantra of 'nobody saw it comming, '.


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## Level7N00b (Apr 7, 2013)

Yet again a situation in which a kid dies because the school authorities were negligent.


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## Mael (Apr 7, 2013)

Pliskin said:


> Yeah that's what I don't get about the story. A psycho brings a weapon to school and the one telling on him becomes a pariah?
> 
> It's as if school massacres never happened. Funny thing is, had something happened, everyone would without a doubt repeat the old mantra of 'nobody saw it comming, '.



Yep, exactly.  No such thing as ethics or discipline anymore and if anything we're punishing people to do the right thing just like how Cam'ron would rail on anyone that had the slightest hint of helping out the police.  Fuck it, bring back the draft and start getting draconian on such blatant violators like bringing in actual knives.  I really can't afford any more patience on PC measures to protect the sensitivities of egregious violators.

Oh and completely overhaul the school system.  Any admins or teachers that fail to instill any form of corrective action should be either suspended or fired.


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## Frostman (Apr 7, 2013)

Its probably because he didn't have many friends. And haveing the stigma of being called a snitch is a quick way to loose friends you have and make it difficult to gain any in the near future. And in some places its reasonable to fear for life.


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## hadou (Apr 7, 2013)

I don't know what is wrong with kids these days


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## happiholic (Apr 7, 2013)

Mael said:


> Yep, exactly.  No such thing as ethics or discipline anymore and if anything we're punishing people to do the right thing just like how Cam'ron would rail on anyone that had the slightest hint of helping out the police.  Fuck it, bring back the draft and start getting draconian on such blatant violators like bringing in actual knives.  I really can't afford any more patience on PC measures to protect the sensitivities of egregious violators.
> 
> *Oh and completely overhaul the school system.  Any admins or teachers that fail to instill any form of corrective action should be either suspended or fired.*



It seems, to me, that teachers who do take corrective action are the ones who are suspended or fired. Teachers who fall alseep at their desks are protected by the union. Teachers who actually try to control class behavior are fired for being "too extreme".


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## Tiger (Apr 7, 2013)

Schools, nine times out of ten, take the approach that "kids are being kids" and take a blind eye to alarming signs so as to not rock the boat in their district.

Too many complaints, too much publicity = bad for "business". And don't kid yourself, the schoolboard is a business. People looking for tenure, school officials looking for bonuses when their schools don't have big problems.

Kids get swept under the rug of bureaucracy because less and less teachers have the courage to step forward and do something outside of their prescribed comfort zone.

Because now, the message we're sending our kids isn't:

"If you're in trouble, talk to a teacher or your parents to get help."

It's:

"If you're in trouble, talk to a teacher or your parent to get in more trouble."

That said, the emotional fragility of young people now is getting out of control. Our dog-eat-dog mentality is poisoning both ends of the well. Half the kids grow up ruling the world, and the other half grow up afraid of their shadow.

There are so many things to blame here, it's almost impossible to know where to start. But I'm gonna pick a point and focus on it: The school itself.

@happiholic,
This so hard.

Teachers, like police officers, are afraid to go "above and beyond" for anyone, because of their job security and being sued.

This problem starts at the top.


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## Mael (Apr 7, 2013)

hadou said:


> I don't know what is wrong with kids these days



No sense of discipline.  We've gone soft and thus the sociopaths are allowed free reign.

I don't buy "kids being kids" when someone brings in a fucking knife and then muses stabbing a teacher.  I'd have that kid locked up and tortured to where the mere thought of knives and stabbing will bring trauma to his brain.  I'd rather have a simpering sod of a former wannabe than sensitivity over feelings and let the kid get a slap on the wrists while the one doing the right thing is punished.

I've lost my patience with kids nowadays.  Lazy parents, inhuman kids, PC administrations.


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## Agmaster (Apr 7, 2013)

Kid shoulda been a sociopath and stabbed one of them.  Then when they jump and kill him they all go to jail.  No more pain and you get one last fuck you to those guys.  Win win?


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## Gino (Apr 7, 2013)

Suicide seems to be the answer to everything now......


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## Mael (Apr 7, 2013)

^Ok...



Agmaster said:


> Kid shoulda been a sociopath and stabbed one of them.  Then when they jump and kill him they all go to jail.  No more pain and you get one last fuck you to those guys.  Win win?



You can't just will being a sociopath.  That situation...I mean...

Fuck I'm already having a shitty weekend and this is just worse.  Now I'll just be paranoid for my kids until after college.


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## Enclave (Apr 7, 2013)

eHav said:


> people who let themselves get bullied come here defending the kids that suicide, people who never get bullied come here saying suiciding is a stupid thing to do. i tend to agree with the second kind people more often than not.



Lol, let themselves get bullied, so fucking ignorant.


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## Gino (Apr 7, 2013)

Mael said:


> ^Ok...



Problem?.....


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## santanico (Apr 7, 2013)

what's even more sad is no one did more to protect him from these barbarians, this could have been prevented, he was obviously in need of psychiatric help. Little pieces of shit better pay for it, maybe not jail time, but I hope they suffer immensely.


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## Mael (Apr 7, 2013)

Gino said:


> Problem?.....



You just seem to be so...simplistic in the "suicide seems to be an answer for everything" statement to the point of being offensive.


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## Gino (Apr 7, 2013)

Mael said:


> You just seem to be so...simplistic in the "suicide seems to be an answer for everything" statement to the point of being offensive.



Oh?............ that's too bad.

lol

This thread is already on its way to shit mountain.(posters in this thread) If you don't feel sorry for the kid you don't understand or you've never been bullied........ you fucks sicken me.This kid had a life ahead of him and now it's gone.


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## Enclave (Apr 7, 2013)

Exactly, people fucked with him so much that he felt there was no way out.  Little bully fucks should be charged with murder.


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## Mael (Apr 7, 2013)

But oh noes, Enclave.  You can't charge a kid with such crimes!  Think of the fact they're just kids and can't be held responsible as they "don't know what they're doing!" 

Actually since they did not do anything to facilitate the death with malice aforethought and deliberate action, murder is an incorrect charge.  There could be involuntary homicide through malice and negligence but that's as far as it goes.  They didn't set the noose around his neck.

Of course again I'm a bit of a sociopath myself dealing with these kids...which is why I advocate limited time torture a la Gitmo. 

Oh and sandboarding!  That is fucking legit. 

All you do is pin their heads to the sand, then basically fire a gun repeatedly into the sand in front of the face.  The sand literally rips their flesh!


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## Gino (Apr 7, 2013)

Enclave said:


> Exactly, people fucked with him so much that he felt there was no way out.  Little bully fucks should be charged with murder.



He killed himself...........


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## Takahashi (Apr 7, 2013)

Enclave said:


> I personally find it harder and harder to feel any kind of sympathy for people who excuse bullying.  *Anybody who makes comments like yours I suspect did not get bullied as a kid.*



Wrong.  I agree with him, and I was bullied.  To the point that I was afraid to go to school for well over a year.  We told the school, and they did nothing. Eventually, I got up the courage to fight him, I got a solid kick to the chest and he fell over, he kind of laughed about it and we started talking.  A few days later we were friends.

Turns out he was taking some medication that conflicted with something else, and it caused a really asshole-ish personality.  He wasn't a bad person, and even if he was, he certainly didn't deserve to feel the guilt of a suicide.

People forget that these bullies are also kids.  People forget that we've all been complete assholes to someone else in our lives.  Most importantly, people forget that bullies are still people, doing what people are predisposed to do.  Should we consider their behavior acceptable?  No.  But should we demonize them, and wish upon them something as terrible as living the rest of their lives thinking that they were responsible for a death?  Fuck no.

When you kill yourself, that's no one's decision but your own.  This notion that other people "killed" him is absolutely absurd.


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## santanico (Apr 7, 2013)

You bully someone to the point where they kill themselves you better fucking be ready to be charged with a crime.


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## Enclave (Apr 7, 2013)

Gino said:


> He killed himself...........



The people who bullied him as good as killed him.  They're the ones responsible for him getting to that point.



Takahashi said:


> Wrong.  I agree with him, and I was bullied.  To the point that I was afraid to go to school for well over a year.  We told the school, and they did nothing. Eventually, I got up the courage to fight him, I got a solid kick to the chest and he fell over, he kind of laughed about it and we started talking.  A few days later we were friends.
> 
> Turns out he was taking some medication that conflicted with something else, and it caused a really asshole-ish personality.  He wasn't a bad person, and even if he was, he certainly didn't deserve to feel the guilt of a suicide.
> 
> ...



One guy?  Only a year?  Wish I had you "problem" there when I was a kid.  Also, funny you think I never tried fighting back, I tried a lot, didn't do jack shit.


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## Gino (Apr 7, 2013)

Doesn't make sense.



Enclave said:


> The people who bullied him as good as killed him.  They're the ones responsible for him getting to that point.



But they didn't...........


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## Mael (Apr 7, 2013)

Really I don't care if the bullies are just kids.  Give them a taste along with their parents.  I've learned that fear of pain and retribution have changed many a thought pattern if the man with the bigger stick is waiting around the corner ready to break your hand for being a twat.  Until we instill a sense of responsibility and discipline in parents and kids alike, I think giving them the fear of God would suffice.


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## Gino (Apr 7, 2013)

Mael said:


> Really I don't care if the bullies are just kids.  Give them a taste along with their parents.  I've learned that fear of pain and retribution have changed many a thought pattern if the man with the bigger stick is waiting around the corner ready to break your hand for being a twat.  Until we instill a sense of responsibility and discipline in parents and kids alike, I think giving them the fear of God would suffice.


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## Mael (Apr 7, 2013)

Right Gino because you have the best solutions.

What do you propose?  Hug-outs?  Campfires?  Meager maneuvers via PowerPoint to get teachers and parents to do the right thing?

I personally think we've let enough people do as they please especially with sociopathic little shits.  Time to crack down otherwise this will only get worse.


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## Vermin (Apr 7, 2013)

is georgia starting to catch  Floridas stupidity or what 

i bet those snot nosed brats would have had a dumb look on their faces if he kept his mouth shut and the teacher got hurt

or shit they would probably harass him for NOT telling on the guy

 bullies are stupid in any situation


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## Cheeky (Apr 7, 2013)

I can rarely seem to bring myself to sympathise with suicide victims.

I feel bad for the people they leave behind, though.


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## Takahashi (Apr 7, 2013)

Enclave said:


> The people who bullied him as good as killed him.  They're the ones responsible for him getting to that point.



Bullshit.



> One guy?  Only a year?  Wish I had you "problem" there when I was a kid.  *Also, funny you think I never tried fighting back, I tried a lot, didn't do jack shit.*



What's funny is that I never said anything about what you did or didn't do.  Do you even need me here, or would you like to just reaffirm your opinion by arguing against imaginary things?

I simply gave my experience.  The purpose of it was to illustrate that a kid bullying another doesn't suddenly make them some horrible monster.  But that seems to have been lost on you.

You're really running with the idea that because someone killed themselves, that action alone proves that other people must somehow be completely responsible.  Ever consider that some people are just pussies who can't handle any difficulty in their life? I knew people in school who would go into crying hysterics if they didn't get the best mark on an assignment or test.

Look, I'm not saying that bullying is fine.  I do think it's something that should be taken seriously in school.  However, pretending that by virtue of making fun of someone, you're deserving of the guilt of a death, or even charged with fucking murder?  That's asinine.


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## Gino (Apr 7, 2013)

Mael said:


> Right Gino because you have the best solutions.
> 
> *What do you propose?  Hug-outs?  Campfires?  Meager maneuvers via PowerPoint to get teachers and parents to do the right thing?*
> 
> I personally think we've let enough people do as they please especially with sociopathic little shits.  Time to crack down otherwise this will only get worse.



I keep forgetting I'm not allowed to laugh.

lol you're bringing me joy today.

I atleast agree with the last statement made in this quote.


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## Cheeky (Apr 7, 2013)

Mael said:


> Meager maneuvers via PowerPoint to get teachers and parents to do the right thing?



If you _don't_ think that well-crafted PowerPoint presentations change the hearts and minds of others, then you are truly lost.


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## Mael (Apr 7, 2013)

You know a situation's fucked when more leeway is given to the perps and those carrying fucking deadly weapons than those who do the moral right.


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## Gino (Apr 7, 2013)

Takahashi said:


> Bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh look common sense.


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## Mael (Apr 7, 2013)

Obviously anyone advocating murder charges is a bit off, as murder involves the actual action required.

Involuntary manslaughter or accessory before and after the fact?  That's up for grabs though.

But I can feel somewhat sorry for this kid.  You're supposed to feel good and validated doing the right thing and preventing future injury to teachers and students.  What you shouldn't have to do is be in despair and fear because all of a sudden you're a "snitch" for preventing what could be stabbing lethally or not.


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## Takahashi (Apr 7, 2013)

Mael said:


> You know a situation's fucked when more leeway is given to the perps and those carrying fucking deadly weapons than those who do the moral right.



That's not the case at all.  I never said anything about the kid with the knife either. 

This is about the ____ *made* ____ kill themselves garbage.  It's about people's attitudes, who aren't connected to the situation in any way, calling for blood over something they know little about, because they're blinded by a past situation.


----------



## Cheeky (Apr 7, 2013)

Charging a suicide victim's bullies with manslaughter, at any age, is a bit much.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Apr 7, 2013)

Georgia is terrible in dealing with bullying. Take the zero-tolerance policy for example. If a kid defends himself, no matter how many bullies he's fighting off the school will often suspend both the kid and the group that jumped him. Any altercation results in suspension or expulsion, it's ridiculous.


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## Gunners (Apr 7, 2013)

People give children too much leeway. If an adult got caught walking around with knife he would be charged with carrying a concealed weapon. If an adult beat another adult up he would be charged with assault. If an adult constantly made fun of another adult he would be charged with harassment. 

I find the individuals in this threads trivialising what happened to the youth funny/annoying in the sense that as adults there is a lot of shit that we don't have to deal with because another adults know that they will be pimp slapped by the long hand of the law. Maybe they haven't experienced bullying or maybe they have forgotten what it feels like, the truth of the matter is I don't give a darn. What I do give a darn about is the expectation that children should deal pressure that adults are easily protected against.


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## Mael (Apr 7, 2013)

I say sandboard the kids! 



Takahashi said:


> That's not the case at all.  I never said anything about the kid with the knife either.
> 
> This is about the ____ *made* ____ kill themselves garbage.  It's about people's attitudes, who aren't connected to the situation in any way, calling for blood over something they know little about, because they're blinded by a past situation.



I'm not even addressing your argument.



Cheeky said:


> Charging a suicide victim's bullies with manslaughter, at any age, is a bit much.



No it isn't...if the behavior was so profound that it inflicted severe emotional, mental, and psychological harm on the victim you could make a potential case for it, if not simply aiding or being catalysts/accessories.


----------



## Takahashi (Apr 7, 2013)

Mael said:


> I'm not even addressing your argument.



Oh, it was right after mine, so I just kind of assumed.  My bad.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Apr 7, 2013)

Forgot to mention that zero-tolerance also carries the risk of arrest for altercations. Yes, the schools are so incompetent to deal with student skirmishes that they'll get cops to arrest both parties. Some of the administrators are so stupid in the case of jumping that they'll ask the clear friends of the perpetrator on who started it, even if those friends were involved in the beating. There's no common sense.


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## Cheeky (Apr 7, 2013)

Mael said:


> No it isn't...if the behavior was so profound that it inflicted severe emotional, mental, and psychological harm on the victim you could make a potential case for it, if not simply aiding or being catalysts/accessories.



I suppose, but I see no point in this case.

The kids were complete assholes, and should be punished.

But if I were to _blame_ anybody for this mess it'd be the adults.


----------



## Mael (Apr 7, 2013)

Takahashi said:


> Oh, it was right after mine, so I just kind of assumed.  My bad.







Cheeky said:


> I suppose, but I see no point in this case.
> 
> The kids were complete assholes, and should be punished.
> 
> But if I were to blame anybody for this mess it'd be the adults.



It's why I advocated sandboarding. :33


----------



## Gino (Apr 7, 2013)

Another case of parents just don't understand........


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## santanico (Apr 7, 2013)

My son was being bullied at school, he told the teacher I hit her up about it as well. Next day, same kid is picking on my son. No one takes it seriously until my son gets fed up with this kid's shit and punched the brat in the face, _then_ that's when the teacher feels the need to hit _me_ up about my son hurting another student.

I'm telling ya, some teachers don't know what the fuck they're doing.


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## Mael (Apr 7, 2013)

They know what's going on.  They're just afraid of...if they act up...

LAWSUIT!


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## Gino (Apr 7, 2013)

Teachers have always been fucking useless at least in my experience.


----------



## eHav (Apr 7, 2013)

Pliskin said:


> Yeah that's what I don't get about the story. A psycho brings a weapon to school and the one telling on him becomes a pariah?
> 
> It's as if school massacres never happened. Funny thing is, had something happened, everyone would without a doubt repeat the old mantra of 'nobody saw it comming, '.



it shows quite the double standard in schools over there. some kids cant make gun sounds, os the forms of a pistol with their hands becuase they get suspended, and yet in other schools carrying a knife is no big deal


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Apr 7, 2013)

As a victim of bullying and harassment even into my College Years, I can completely sympathize with the young man who committed suicide. The bullies should be charged with harassment, assault, and manslaughter and tossed into a prison after being tried as ADULTS, not as stupid kids.


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Apr 7, 2013)

Frostman said:


> Its probably because he didn't have many friends. And haveing the stigma *of being called a snitch is a quick way to loose friends you have and make it difficult to gain any in the near future.* And in some places its reasonable to fear for life.



If these so called "friends" left him for doing the right thing of reporting a nutjob carrying a knife making threats to kill someone then they are not his friends and basically retarded.

Look it's one thing to always complain/snitch for every little thing, it's another to complain for legit reasons, the latter is more justified and should'nt be ignored especially when it includes other children. A kid or teenager(especially teenager) with a knife whose nuts is a threat to everyone in a school, you'd think his schoolmates and teachers would be glad he warned them. School does nothing and others bully him for doing the right thing.

Not attacking you BTW if I may have come across as that. Mostly pissed at people like those you mentioned in your post.


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## Lina Inverse (Apr 7, 2013)

bullying sucks balls


----------



## Linkdarkside (Apr 7, 2013)

Gino said:


> Suicide seems to be the answer to everything now......


what do you know..you know nothing.


----------



## Euraj (Apr 7, 2013)

Fucking administrators in this state are so incompetent. It seems like it's a plague of idiocy that started in the metro of Atlanta and then infected everyone else. It doesn't really matter whether one thinks suicide is stupid or not, this incident probably could have been avoided altogether if Perdue's little, zero-tol. policy was actually enforced (and intelligently).

I remember in middle school, when my whole class started picking on this one kid and he flipped shit and hit somebody in the face. Then, an administrator makes a definitive decision that problem was his fault just by asking the class who started it. 

I'm just sitting there thinking how someone four times my age can have the mental capacity of my left knuckle.


----------



## hadou (Apr 7, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> As a victim of bullying and harassment even into my College Years



You're kidding, right?


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Apr 8, 2013)

hadou said:


> You're kidding, right?


Wish I wasn't. I honestly was the victim of it even into my college years.


----------



## santanico (Apr 8, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Wish I wasn't. I honestly was the victim of it even into my college years.



I'm not surprised, some college students have the maturity level of a pubescent child


----------



## Mael (Apr 8, 2013)

I did have an obnoxious Jersey roommate who would continuously fuck with me because he thought he was the greatest shit to come outta Bergen County.

Then one day I got so mad I pushed his face into a door after he tried to playfully slap me and then got him kicked out showing the RA all the things he did in terms of personal property damage to include my computer.

Hurting someone like that was pretty fun.


----------



## Enclave (Apr 8, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Wish I wasn't. I honestly was the victim of it even into my college years.



Man, that sucks.  College is when life for me finally started to not suck.


----------



## hadou (Apr 8, 2013)

A lot of people here seem to had a rough time in high school and college. That sucks


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## Gino (Apr 8, 2013)

Linkdarkside said:


> what do you know..you know nothing.



 This coming from a guy who always talks about killing himself but never does it I'm afraid you're the one who knows nothing shut the fuck up.


----------



## hadou (Apr 8, 2013)

Gino said:


> This coming from a guy who always talks about killing himself but never does it I'm afraid you're the one who knows nothing shut the fuck up.



He talks about killing himself? He needs help ASAP.


----------



## Gino (Apr 8, 2013)

He doesn't want help he just wants attention, unfortunately for him I'm giving him the wrong kind.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Apr 8, 2013)

Enclave said:


> Man, that sucks.  College is when life for me finally started to not suck.


Even got a brand new look for it, didn't need glasses anymore, grew out a bit of a beard like the ones I saw other people wearing to college. No luck, only made a few friends. Hell at times I had to book it after class just so they wouldn't follow me to where my bus stop was.



Gino said:


> He doesn't want help he just wants attention, unfortunately for him I'm giving him the wrong kind.


And if he goes threw it Gino, you'd be held responsible in a court of law for his death.


----------



## Ender Wiggin (Apr 8, 2013)

Enclave said:


> Man, that sucks.  College is when life for me finally started to not suck.



Same. I was never really bullied, but I always felt like I was putting on an act to fit in. It sucked. It wasn't until college that I realized there wasn't something wrong with me- I just don't get along with most girls, so going into a bigger population was good because I could find more people like me. I went to a huge college, so it was easy to lose people if you wanted and there were always thousands of new people to meet.

I think that's true of a lot of kids, whether they're bullied or not. Anyone who doesn't fit in with the popular group or does but feels like they're wearing a kind of mask. It does get better for most people, though, but unfortunately it's hard to convince kids of this. It's so sad when kids take their lives like this. There's so much life to be had!


----------



## Gino (Apr 8, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And if he goes threw it Gino, you'd be held responsible in a court of law for his death.



Tell me when did I tell him to kill himself don't worry I'll wait. When did I say do it ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) when did I say any of that so what you're trying to tell me I can't call people out on their bullshit. Man what the fuck ever get off my nuts. Since we like to generalize, I bet the muthafuckas that's whining about your personal lives in this thread about a kid who killed himself are really just emotional pussies that don't know shit about struggling.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Apr 8, 2013)

I am utterly disgusted at how many people in this thread are making fun of the kid and calling him a coward.

The kid was 13, had just moved to a new town, and was getting harassed, beaten up, and bullied nonstop even though he was obviously trying to fit in (making snacks for classmates). He had the guts to warn his teacher about the armed kid wanting to kill them, and he ends up being punished by all of his classmates for it. Add to that the fact that his family situation seems to be complicated (sent from whoever he was once living with to live with his father, which is a difficult situation in more ways that one). 13 is generally a difficult age for most people, especially when you're struggling to get friends and be accepted in a new school. He may very well have had underlying emotional and mental issues that were not being taken care of, etc etc etc.

Did he do the right thing by killing himself? Of course not.

But to blame and mock him for what happened? What the fuck?


----------



## Gino (Apr 8, 2013)

I don't think we've read the same thread.


----------



## Cygnus45 (Apr 8, 2013)

I guess this proves mental abuse is real. He's just a kid. They didn't need to help him, he just needed to be reassured he was doing the right thing.

Still a pussy for hanging himself. Bitch.


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## Gino (Apr 8, 2013)

okay.........nvm


----------



## The Space Cowboy (Apr 8, 2013)

Suicide is a tragic act of cowardice in most cases

At the same time, muthafucka's a hero for snitching on some whiny little bitch who thought threatening teachers with a knife is a good idea.  

Jumping someone with 20 people, is pretty much cowardice unless the one person's got a gun.


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## Mael (Apr 8, 2013)

Needs more Stroheim.


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## Nightblade (Apr 8, 2013)

lol @ kids here calling him a coward or pussy bitch. he was 13(probably the same age as the kids dissing him here) and got bullied and threatened physical harm by 15-20 other kids just because he was new, and did the right thing. yeah, he could have stuck up for himself and fought those 15-20 kids, but this isn't some anime or manga shit where one kid can take on 15-20 other kids all by himself. this isn't Naruto lol, this is real life. 

anyway, I think the school and parents could have been more proactive. these things can be prevented, but parents and teachers need to be aware of the situation too. especially the teachers since they're actually there at the school. 

ah well, those bullies will probably grow up into crims.


----------



## Enclave (Apr 8, 2013)

Nightblade said:


> lol @ kids here calling him a coward or pussy bitch. he was 13(probably the same age as the kids dissing him here) and got bullied and threatened physical harm by 15-20 other kids just because he was new, and did the right thing. yeah, he could have stuck up for himself and fought those 15-20 kids, but this isn't some anime or manga shit where one kid can take on 15-20 other kids all by himself. this isn't Naruto lol, this is real life.
> 
> anyway, I think the school and parents could have been more proactive. these things can be prevented, but parents and teachers need to be aware of the situation too. especially the teachers since they're actually there at the school.
> 
> ah well, those bullies will probably grow up into crims.



I know one of the guys who bullied me back in grade 6 and 7 was basically homeless at 20.  He also apologised to me about how he treated me back then.  He I don't have a problem with anymore.

You'll find the people I hold a grudge against isn't so much the little fucks that bullied me (I do not like them but if they apologise sincerely I'll forgive them) but rather the teachers.  I just cannot forgive them for ignoring the problem.


----------



## Deleted member 234422 (Apr 8, 2013)

Enclave said:


> I know one of the guys who bullied me back in grade 6 and 7 was basically homeless at 20.  He also apologised to me about how he treated me back then.  He I don't have a problem with anymore.
> 
> You'll find the people I hold a grudge against isn't so much the little fucks that bullied me (I do not like them but if they apologise sincerely I'll forgive them) but rather the teachers.  I just cannot forgive them for ignoring the problem.



As a the only black kid in a Saudi class, shit was the same for me. I got picked on by pretty much by everyone simply because I was black. I was ostracised from pretty much every single event, activity, group, game, etc. Imagine a class of not just Arabic kids, but also indians, pakistani, Iraqi, etc. The weaker kids liked to torment me with word and the kids that were bigger than me got physical. A group of the kids even thought it would be a great idea to crash into me using one of those vehicle that has a person at the wheeland two people pushing from the back. I fell mouth first on the cement. Blood was everywhere. It looked like a murder scene. You know what the teacher told me to do. 

She told me to get up, suck it up, and that it was my fault for getting in the way. NO ONE helped me up, but my sister who was two grades down. The thing that I hated the most were the teachers. They knew what was going on but they never intervened or helped. Instead they sided with the bullies. One time I had to write that I was sorry to a bully that I pushed back. The teacher made me write it on 100 pages.  It took me a month to do it. Up untill i was 10 and moved to Canada I had only one friend, who I saw in secret whenever his dad was at work. His mom would sneak me into her house and sneak me out before the husband came home. Eventually the Dad found out and beat his son for seeing me. My parents also told me to suck it up, but eventually we just moved to Canada.

Yet, I never once thought of committing suicide. So I can't feel for this kid nor anyone else who does commit suicide. I'm sorry, but I just can't.


----------



## Roman (Apr 8, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> I know I'm going to get negged and I really don't mean to sound insensitive but wtf is it with this generation of kids? They need to sack up and start sticking up for themselves a bit more.  I'm finding it harder and harder these days to sympathize with these kids.





Sakazuki said:


> Suicide is pointless.
> 
> He should have picked up a rock and smashed it off of the bullies face. All problems solved.



First page and already there are shitty comments like these. I thought I'd see them by around page two, not even the first reply.



Nightblade said:


> anyway, I think the school and parents could have been more proactive. these things can be prevented, but parents and teachers need to be aware of the situation too. especially the teachers since they're actually there at the school.



The problem with schools pretty much everywhere in the world is that they don't want bullying to be such a public thing else it would tarnish their reputation. If more people had wind of what kind of students attended the school, they'd instantly lose a lot of potential students. 

It's even worse in smaller towns like I was in because teachers simply don't care by virtue of the fact they don't have to worry about how another school performs as they'll get students nonetheless. In pretty much every school I went to before Saudi, I was bullied just for being American. 

It was a lot better in Saudi since I went to an international school, and the bullying there stopped on my second year when I showed everyone I wasn't the weak little mouse they took me for when I first came. By winning sports competitions and beating others in something they never thought I'd beat them at. And I never had to raise a fist. This is why I don't agree with people who say a kid whose bullied should stand up for himself with his fists. What's more important is confidence in yourself and showing them that you're better at something than they are.

This case was special tho because unlike some other bullies, they would resort to lethal force to threaten victims. It wouldn't surprise me if the student was actually threatening the teacher into not defending the kid here (assuming it is true that the teacher was threatened). And when there's 14-19 others like him willing to jump him, it shouldn't be a shock the kid was terrified to the point of not being able to rationalize a solution.



Ayanli said:


> Yet, I never once thought of committing suicide. So I can't feel for this kid nor anyone else who does commit suicide. I'm sorry, but I just can't.



While I agree that suicide is never the right answer especially to problems like these, you should know really well that when 15-20 other kids, all of them possibly having murderous intent, would scare the shit out of him. He'd have been scared to even leave the house at best, and he couldn't trust his teachers to help him.


----------



## ImperatorMortis (Apr 8, 2013)

Middle schooler's now? Fucking christ..



Sakazuki said:


> Suicide is pointless.
> 
> He should have picked up a rock and smashed it off of the bullies face. All problems solved.



Problem solved except he gets suspended/expelled/arrested, and now has "assaulted student with rock" on his permanent record. 

Yeah that would solve all his problems.


----------



## Deleted member 234422 (Apr 8, 2013)

Freedan said:


> While I agree that suicide is never the right answer especially to problems like these, you should know really well that when 15-20 other kids, all of them possibly having murderous intent, would scare the shit out of him. He'd have been scared to even leave the house at best, and he couldn't trust his teachers to help him.



I think 15-20 students with murderous intent is an overstatement. I still can't fathom why he would believe suicide is the best choice. 

Do you realize how horrible it is as a kid to not have any friends. How crippling, lonely, and depressed it makes you. To have every single person in existence turn on you. I am not shitting you when I say that from when I started school at 3 or 4 to age 10, I had ONE friend who I knew for roughly 1.5 years. 



> Middle schooler's now? Fucking christ..
> 
> Problem solved except he gets suspended/expelled/arrested, and now has "assaulted student with rock" on his permanent record.
> 
> Yeah that would solve all his problems.



Funny story. I was getting jumped again. I managed to single one of them out . I proceeded to smash his head onto the corner of the streetwalk. Made sure his friends were watching and stopped when the bleeding got too much. His friends just stood there in shock and only came to help when I was done. I must say, it was very satisfying and they stopped jumping me for a while.


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Apr 8, 2013)

ImperatorMortis said:


> Problem solved except he gets suspended/expelled/arrested, and now has "assaulted student with rock" on his permanent record.
> 
> Yeah that would solve all his problems.



This sadly.


----------



## Roman (Apr 8, 2013)

Ayanli said:


> I think 15-20 students with murderous intent is an overstatement. I still can't fathom why he would believe suicide is the best choice.



I just said that I agree that suicide isn't the right option, but it doesn't mean he deserves no sympathy for what he had to go through. It's like he was more wrong to kill himself than the bullies who would've probably killed him. 



Ayanli said:


> Do you realize how horrible it is as a kid to not have any friends. How crippling, lonely, and depressed it makes you. To have every single person in existence turn on you. I am not shitting you when I say that from when I started school at 3 or 4 to age 10, I had ONE friend who I knew for roughly 1.5 years.



Yes, I do. While I didn't quite go through the same trouble as you did, I grew up only having a handful of friends in Saudi, and practically none before that. So I would refrain from turning this into a "who's got a longer dick of sadness" contest. Just because you went through a lot of tough crap in your life doesn't entitle you to a better opinion than anyone else here on how they should feel about this kid.


----------



## Cygnus45 (Apr 8, 2013)

> ah well, those bullies will probably grow up into crims.



Criminals? They will become rapists, drug dealers, and serial-killers. Don't sugar-coat the truth.


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## ImperatorMortis (Apr 8, 2013)

Ayanli said:


> Funny story. I was getting jumped again. I managed to single one of them out . I proceeded to smash his head onto the corner of the streetwalk. Made sure his friends were watching and stopped when the bleeding got too much. His friends just stood there in shock and only came to help when I was done.


 
Good. I would have loved to see that. 



Ayanli said:


> I must say, it was very satisfying and they stopped jumping me for a while.



"For a while"? So they started messing with you again?


----------



## Deleted member 234422 (Apr 8, 2013)

Freedan said:


> I just said that I agree that suicide isn't the right option, but it doesn't mean he deserves no sympathy for what he had to go through. It's like he was more wrong to kill himself than the bullies who would've probably killed him.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I do. While I didn't quite go through the same trouble as you did, I grew up only having a handful of friends in Saudi, and practically none before that. So I would refrain from turning this into a "who's got a longer dick of sadness" contest. Just because you went through a lot of tough crap in your life doesn't entitle you to a better opinion than anyone else here on how they should feel about this kid.



Quite the contrary, I never did imply my opinion had more value so don't start with that shit. Nor would I want it viewed that way. That statement was just to further emphasize my inability to understand why some people choose to take that route. I would like to understand.



ImperatorMortis said:


> Good. I would have loved to see that.
> 
> "For a while"? So they started messing with you again?



The new school year brought more problems as they had more friends this time. It didn't stop but I did enjoy the vacation I got.


----------



## Roman (Apr 8, 2013)

Ayanli said:


> Quite the contrary, I never did imply my opinion had more value so don't start with that shit. Nor would I want it viewed that way. That statement was just to further emphasize my inability to understand why some people choose to take that route. I would like to understand.



How about "he was so frightened by those kids and saw no way out of the situation when adults couldn't be trusted that he'd rather take his own life than suffer death at their hands?" Not that I agree with his take but the mind of a 13 year old generally isn't close to what you'd consider rational for an adult. Considering how his teachers and parents were seemingly powerless to do anything about his situation, he prolly figured adults couldn't be trusted and he didn't want to have to deal with the problem himself. And if he did, one kid beating the crap out of 20 others would be impossible, especially when they've already shown they're willing to jump him all at once.


----------



## Deleted member 234422 (Apr 8, 2013)

Freedan said:


> How about "he was so frightened by those kids and saw no way out of the situation when adults couldn't be trusted that he'd rather take his own life than suffer death at their hands?" Not that I agree with his take but the mind of a 13 year old generally isn't close to what you'd consider rational for an adult. Considering how his teachers and parents were seemingly powerless to do anything about his situation, he prolly figured adults couldn't be trusted and he didn't want to have to deal with the problem himself. And if he did, one kid beating the crap out of 20 others would be impossible, especially when they've already shown they're willing to jump him all at once.



I guess I was looking at it from the wrong angle. I kept thinking what would I have done if I was in his situation and the answer would have been definitely not fucking suicide. I should of thought of more along the lines of what if I was HIM. People are just different. Kids are fucking cruel. Parents are sometimes unaware.

I don't know how it is like in America, but in my Elementary and Highschool, if you had ever snitched, your life as a student was done. You would have lost the respect of every student.


----------



## ImperatorMortis (Apr 8, 2013)

Ayanli said:


> The new school year brought more problems as they had more friends this time. It didn't stop but I did enjoy the vacation I got.



Is this something that happened in the past, and is already over or something that you're dealing with now? Sorry if I'm asking too many questions.


----------



## Deleted member 234422 (Apr 8, 2013)

ImperatorMortis said:


> Is this something that happened in the past, and is already over or something that you're dealing with now? Sorry if I'm asking too many questions.



Oh in the past, I was like 6-10 and living in Saudi Arabia when it happened. I moved to Canada when I was 10. Everyone is so nice in Canada.


----------



## ImperatorMortis (Apr 8, 2013)

Ayanli said:


> Oh in the past, I was like 6-10 and living in Saudi Arabia when it happened. I moved to Canada when I was 10. Everyone is so nice in Canada.



Ah good. Just glad its in the past.


----------



## Gino (Apr 8, 2013)

These new generation of kids are bitches.


----------



## Roman (Apr 8, 2013)

Ayanli said:


> I guess I was looking at it from the wrong angle. I kept thinking what would I have done if I was in his situation and the answer would have been definitely not fucking suicide. I should of thought of more along the lines of what if I was HIM. People are just different. Kids are fucking cruel. Parents are sometimes unaware.



That's my point. I certainly wouldn't have chosen suicide either. Like I said, I agree with you on that part.



Ayanli said:


> I don't know how it is like in America, but in my Elementary and Highschool, if you had ever snitched, your life as a student was done. You would have lost the respect of every student.



I've only been to elementary school for two years in the US so my guess is as good as yours in all honesty. The bullying issues I refer to are the ones I faced in my hometown in Sicily and for a short time in Saudi. Snitching can earn you other students' hatred in any school you go to.


----------



## Deleted member 234422 (Apr 8, 2013)

Freedan said:


> That's my point. I certainly wouldn't have chosen suicide either. Like I said, I agree with you on that part.
> 
> 
> 
> I've only been to elementary school for two years in the US so my guess is as good as yours in all honesty. The bullying issues I refer to are the ones I faced in my hometown in Sicily and for a short time in Saudi. Snitching can earn you other students' hatred in any school you go to.



It gets even worse when students reporting own bullies get labelled as a snitch. Don't tell, you lose. Do tell, you still lose. In my school, most students didn't want to report their own problems because they were afraid of being considered snitches. Especially with many wearing the 'Stop Snitching' shirts.

It is also hard to escape it when bullying follows you home in the form of social networks.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Apr 8, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> I might have over-exaggerated there for a moment,but there were many other alternatives besides suicide that would have worked just fine.
> 
> Taking your own life at the age of 13,because of bullying is flat out iditoic. No matter how much sensitive he was,it's stupid that he decided to take the cowards way out instead of doing something about it.  He didn't even bother to have a serious talk about it with his parents or authorities,but rather,he decides to kill himself and take away from himself who knows how much pleasure and happiness he was going to experience,permanently scarring his entire family,relatives and friends because someone called him a snitch. Pointless. Ridiculous. Not heroic _at all_.



Cowards way out? I don't think it's cowardly at all. It's very unfortunate though. Hopefully those assholes bullies remember this for the rest of their lives.


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## Hand Banana (Apr 8, 2013)

Snitches get stitches, not nooses. that shit don't rhyme.


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## Saishin (Apr 8, 2013)

Fuck these bullies,assholes  
but also damn how an only 13 years old kid can take such an extreme action,I suppose he haven't had any problem in his family so fuck the school fuck these bullies fuck everything he hadn't to give up,he had to fight,he could insist to denounces everything to the police or say everything to his father.When I heard these stories I really get angry,he was young and had all the life before him a life can't end in this absurd way. Anyway rip to him.


----------



## Hand Banana (Apr 8, 2013)

Saishin said:


> Fuck these bullies,assholes



And it's not like you're any better insulting children. Unless of course you're their age which would be ok.


----------



## Saishin (Apr 8, 2013)

Daz Amazing said:


> And it's not like you're any better insulting children. Unless of course you're their age which would be ok.


Normal kids don't bully other kids call him a snitch,beaten him up and rub a pie cake over him,they deserved to be called assholes,for them to be called assholes is a compliment they should be called with more tough words.


----------



## Hand Banana (Apr 8, 2013)

Saishin said:


> *Normal kids* don't bully other kids call him a snitch,beaten him up and rub a pie cake over him,they deserved to be called assholes,for them to be called assholes is a compliment they should be called with more tough words.



Normal kids? That's your opening argument? Ok bucko


----------



## Mael (Apr 8, 2013)

Daz Amazing said:


> Snitches get stitches, not nooses. that shit don't rhyme.


----------



## Hand Banana (Apr 8, 2013)

Gay thugs need love too?


----------



## Mael (Apr 8, 2013)

Daz Amazing said:


> Gay thugs need love too?



That's Cam'ron, mang.  He spelled out the punishment for snitches.


----------



## Registered Sex Offender (Apr 8, 2013)

I wish I could have comforted the kid. No,not  way you think of because of my name.


----------



## T7 Bateman (Apr 8, 2013)

Not surprised the school gonna say they didn't know anything. They just don't want to be blamed but they need to be put on notice. Stop suspending kids for stupid ass reasons and do something about bullying. Damn shame kids feel so sad and helpless that they turn to suicide. No one should feel like that and as parents we can try to help too but the schools need to get it together.


----------



## Mael (Apr 8, 2013)

Registered Sex Offender said:


> I wish I could have comforted the kid. No,not  way you think of because of my name.


----------



## Registered Sex Offender (Apr 8, 2013)

I would have been there for him, always.


----------



## soulnova (Apr 8, 2013)

I was called a snitch plenty of times too. I moved schools each year and in each one I was also the smartest. The new girl and the nerdest. It was pretty bad, but I wasn't your average 13 year old either. Maybe because I was smarter I knew that shit would eventually stop because adults didn't have to deal with it. After changing schools so many times I just assumed I was never going to see their sorry asses ever again so it didn't matter if they called me names.

It might be different right now with Facebook and twitter, so that's why I'm going to rule out social networks for my kids until they are +13.


----------



## Hand Banana (Apr 8, 2013)

Mael said:


> That's Cam'ron, mang.  He spelled out the punishment for snitches.



Dude, that phrase has been around longer than him. Welcome to the black community, mael.

And I know who that was in the picture. We don't all look a like,


----------



## Agmaster (Apr 8, 2013)

Social competitiveness in action, everyone.  People are no longer taught how to build themselves up in a way that isn't destructive to someone or something.  Not only for the kid who ragequit life, but I can see it in this thread.  The same basic concept of socializing.  You people on both sides make points, but some have too much of a hardon for asserting dominance via taking shots at other people.  I dunno.  I just got to work and it's monday.  Shouldn't be shocked at how passionate people are about this, though.


----------



## Mathias124 (Apr 8, 2013)

While it is sad i cant help but smile when they report he was given a "hero's" funeral... The kid opted out how the hell is he a hero?

By the way, snitching on the guy who carries a knife to school is a smart thing to do and should be done HOWEVER.

Snitching on the crazy ass guy in a way that makes it possible for him and his crazy ass friends to find out? Thats a Darwin Award right there.
If he knew you saw him with a knife, you are better off not telling, given that you tell on him because you dont want someone stabbed. 
The odds of which increase if you piss of a crazy guy with a knife.
IF you tell the teacher in front of your class, you're kind of dumb. DO IT IN PRIVATE ASSHAT.

Can't really see how he could've fucked it up more


----------



## cnorwood (Apr 8, 2013)

Gino said:


> These new generation of kids are bitches.



QFT        .


----------



## MegaultraHay (Apr 8, 2013)

I hate this country sometimes


----------



## Hand Banana (Apr 8, 2013)

MegaultraHay said:


> I hate this country sometimes



Then you're ignorant if you don't think it happens anywhere else. Teen peer pressure no matter what the particular phrase being used happens anywhere.


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## cnorwood (Apr 8, 2013)

Daz Amazing said:


> Then you're ignorant if you don't think it happens anywhere else. Teen peer pressure no matter what the particular phrase being used happens anywhere.



But not in 日本 because its perfect there :amazed


----------



## Hand Banana (Apr 8, 2013)

cnorwood said:


> But not in 日本 because its perfect there :amazed



I have no ideal what Square Square means. That's all I'm seeing.


----------



## Sanity Check (Apr 8, 2013)

Mohawks and students munching pastries into the shape of a gun take precedence over this.

WAR is PEACE.
FREEDOM is SLAVERY.


----------



## Miss Fortune (Apr 8, 2013)

Well, knife at school and kids actually taking initiative to beat other kids up. That part is like a stupid movie. But still very sad considering the fact that school life has arrived at that extreme.

Also, poor kid. :/


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## TheCupOfBrew (Apr 9, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> Suicide is pointless.
> 
> He should have picked up a rock and smashed it off of the bullies face. All problems solved.



I can tell you from failed attempts, and contemplation that it's not that easy.


----------



## Shock Therapy (Apr 9, 2013)

Iron Man said:


> I can tell you from failed attempts, and contemplation that it's not that easy.



steel rod works too. just wait in the bushes or some shit and smash them in the skull until they can't fuck with you again. make sure to go for the ankles, elbows, and balls for maximum effectiveness.


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## Revolution (Apr 9, 2013)

It's always sad when a child is bullied to torment.
It's always sad when a child commits suicide.

Double wammy in the heart.  This is so wrong.


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## Roman (Apr 9, 2013)

Daz Amazing said:


> Normal kids? That's your opening argument? Ok bucko



Oh yes, because normal kids always bring a knife to school, threaten their teachers and take 15 buddies of theirs to make an example of a certain somepony


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## Griever (Apr 9, 2013)

Freedan said:


> Oh yes, because normal kids always bring a knife to school, threaten their teachers and take 15 buddies of theirs to make an example of a certain somepony



It is actually. It's called the 'adolescent mind' and it's the very reason why in the court of law juveniles are typically judged separately from adults (save for the most extreme cases). Juveniles will act without considering the consequences of their actions, now bringing a knife to school and threatening a teacher, there is really nothing telling about the verbal action in and of itself, you can just chalk it up to child bravado. So, was the treat a serious one that he would have carried out without hesitation?, or was he just talking and trying to look tough/cool like teenagers do?. That is why adolescents are harder to judge as a criminal element based on a threat. 

*shrugs*


----------



## Tsuchi (Apr 9, 2013)

Kids today have way too much free time on their hands. Like seriously if you can put that much energy into bullying someone then by god imagine what they'd achieve if they did something positive. Let's say the boy didn't snitch on the kid and he went hrough with stabbing the teacher, does he think the kids who were picking on Devin would still show their support for him? And then there's the school who never take any action until the damage is already done. It doesn't matter if the kid never reported that he was being bullied, if he's already been branded for snitching on that kid he's not gonna talk, but the fact that his father reported and they didn't even give it a second thought, makes me wonder if its even worth it for other kids who are victims of bullying should speak up.


----------



## Roman (Apr 9, 2013)

Griever said:


> It is actually. It's called the 'adolescent mind' and it's the very reason why in the court of law juveniles are typically judged separately from adults (save for the most extreme cases). Juveniles will act without considering the consequences of their actions, now bringing a knife to school and threatening a teacher, there is really nothing telling about the verbal action in and of itself, you can just chalk it up to child bravado. So, was the treat a serious one that he would have carried out without hesitation?, or was he just talking and trying to look tough/cool like teenagers do?. That is why adolescents are harder to judge as a criminal element based on a threat.
> 
> *shrugs*



You're missing the point entirely. Not surprising given your reading comprehension. I'm saying it's not normal or common for students to frequently bring a knife to school and threaten a teacher or two. I get that juveniles are judged separately from adults, but that's not what we're talking about.


----------



## Griever (Apr 9, 2013)

Freedan said:


> You're missing the point entirely. Not surprising given your reading comprehension. I'm saying it's not normal or common for students to frequently bring a knife to school and threaten a teacher or two. I get that juveniles are judged separately from adults, but that's not what we're talking about.


 
 

and you want to talk to me about reading comprehension? 

what'd you do, just skim my post or something?.


----------



## Roman (Apr 9, 2013)

Griever said:


> and you want to talk to me about reading comprehension?



Of course I do. Since you didn't even get where my reply came from :/


----------



## Hand Banana (Apr 9, 2013)

Freedan said:


> Of course I do. Since you didn't even get where my reply came from :/



I do. Using normal children in an argument is retarded as fuck. A normal child in your definition one be one who studies, and doesn't act up in school. yet we just read an article last week where an A student died drinking or sniffing chemicals. It's normal for children to make poor decisions. As pointed out but you refused to understand, children do not have the full gist of their consequences. That's normal with all children. So cut the bullshit, Freedan.


----------



## Griever (Apr 9, 2013)

Freedan said:


> Of course I do. Since you didn't even get where my reply came from :/



Yeah i do. Thing is, your going on about "juveniles being judged separately from adults" when in fact that was no more than an example in my post, proving that either you didn't comprehend the point of the post or simply skimmed through it.


----------



## Patrick (Apr 9, 2013)

To be completely honest I can't really symphatize with these kind of suicides. 

The article really made it sound like he was afraid to get killed so he did it himself. Of course the bullying is sad, but killing yourself is just never the answer.


----------



## Enclave (Apr 9, 2013)

patrick4life said:


> To be completely honest I can't really symphatize with these kind of suicides.
> 
> The article really made it sound like he was afraid to get killed so he did it himself. Of course the bullying is sad, but killing yourself is just never the answer.



The kid wasn't afraid of being killed, he was afraid of the rest of his life being like it was where he's afraid to go to school because he's going to get bullied.

Seriously, you can bet he wasn't afraid they were going to kill him.


----------



## Grape (Apr 9, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> I know I'm going to get negged and I really don't mean to sound insensitive but wtf is it with this generation of kids? They need to sack up and start sticking up for themselves a bit more.  I'm finding it harder and harder these days to sympathize with these kids.




The problem is that kids shouldn't have to stick up for themselves. A parent took action and that action was ignored.

I negged Louis for this post and received a neg in return with "boohoo" in the comment. Kind of funny that you know you're being ignorant and then get butt hurt when someone disapproves.


----------



## siyrean (Apr 9, 2013)

when the majority of people reading this post that have experienced first hand the effect of bullying, say they can understand where this kid is coming from, I would hazard to propose that this is a decent enough sample size of adults who now would never consider such action were they placed back in that situation but non-the-less can see themselves seriously considering it if they were still 13. 

I think this shows that no, this is not any sort of isolated incident of a mentally unstable kid. This is what this kind of bullying does to otherwise normal individuals. It wears you down to the point where you see no future and no escape but more of the same. Day in and day out, constant fear, your body constantly in a state of fight or flight, can't trust anyone, you have to question everything anyone says in case it's a trap or set up, you need to know what time your bullies walk home and how much time you have to get from your locker and a good distance either behind or before them. 

It fucks you up, and there's no escape. NONE. Teachers can't do anything, parents can't do anything. Unless your parents move, something you probably pray for everyday even if it means never seeing your maybe 1 or 2 friends that you do have, THERE IS NO ESCAPE.  

For years. 


yes, suicide starts to look very good at that point.


----------



## Louis-954 (Apr 9, 2013)

> The problem is that *kids shouldn't have to stick up for themselves.* A parent took action and that action was ignored.


Of  course children need to stick up for themselves. Mommy, daddy, and your homeroom teacher can't *always* be there for you. You're fooling yourself if you think otherwise. 

I speak from experience. I started school a year earlier than most kids, I was always the youngest, shortest, skinniest, nerdiest kid in class growing up. I was threatened, beaten, and picked on more times than I care to remember, yet here I stand today able to hold this conversation with you.

One of the best things my dad ever taught me was how to throw a punch. I got into a lot of fights in my teens, and let me tell you, win or lose(mostly lose xD), those kids *never* messed with me again. Know why? Because they knew I wasn't going to just lie down and take their shit. A person can only bully you if you let them. 



> I negged Louis for this post and received a neg in return with "boohoo"  in the comment. Kind of funny that you know you're being ignorant and  then get butt hurt when someone disapproves.


I'm butthurt? You're the one who negged me. Can't handle someone having a different opinion than you without your jimmies being rustled? Then you shouldn't be on the internet.

I'm ignorant? Unless there is something I missed in the OP this is the conflict and its consequences in a nut shell.

1. A few bullies smear some pie on the kids clothes some point in the recent past.

2. Kid gets called a snitch.

3. Kid fears the *prospect* of getting beaten up.

3. Kid hangs himself because of the aforementioned.

Other children deal with* worse* every fucking day and don't commit suicide. Are his peers assholes? Yeah, and disciplinary action should be taken, but the victim blew the situation way out of proportion and made a mountain out of a mole hill. None of the aforementioned is worth hanging yourself over and having your parents find their beloved son dead. His decision was rash, irrational, and selfish, even for a 13 year old. 

I'm ignorant because I'm finding it difficult to sympathize with why he killed himself? Get real, man. I do think it's a shame and I'm not happy he's dead, but I feel worse for his friends and loved ones than I do for him. By taking the easy way out he inadvertently ruined more lives and hurt more people than those bullies probably will throughout the course of their lives. Standing up for yourself and taking an ass kicking here and there is always a better alternative to being 6ft under and without a future.



> It wears you down to the point where you see no future and no escape but more of the same.


This here is something parents and teachers should focus more on drilling into their children and students heads when they complain of bullying. That it gets **much** better after high school when you make that transition into the real world. I know 4-7 years feels like an eternity during those teenage years, but I think if adults in positions of trust and authority reassured children of that one simple fact that it may end up saving a few lives.


----------



## Sanity Check (Apr 9, 2013)

1.  Suspend students for chewing pastries into a gun shape.
2.  Ignore real causes of violence like OP.
3.  Proclaim to the world how "dedicated" you are towards creating a better school environment because you want "gun control", blah, blah.


----------



## Closet Pervert (Apr 9, 2013)

Bunch of badass mofos, carrying knives and calling people snitches.


----------



## Cygnus45 (Apr 9, 2013)

Gino said:


> These new generation of kids are bitches.



^This.

It's really not that complicated. Kids are spoiled too much and become little punks.



> Cowards way out? I don't think it's cowardly at all. It's very unfortunate though. Hopefully those assholes bullies remember this for the rest of their lives.



The problem is, they won't. They are heartless, merciless, and are probably laughing about it.

That's why it's the cowards way out. You don't reason with a rapist or lock him up, you shoot him. You don't give a drunk alcohol, u take the drink out his hand. You don't lock up a nutcase and give him pills, you treat him like a human being.

Taking your own life, the life you were blessed with, is saying "I give up". People are weak. Take care of your ****ing problems and don't run away from them or cry like a bitch.


----------



## Closet Pervert (Apr 9, 2013)

Cygnus45 said:


> Taking your own life, the life you were blessed with, is saying "I give up". People are weak. Take care of your ****ing problems and don't run away from them or cry like a bitch.


That's the stupidest thing i've heard the whole week.


----------



## Gino (Apr 9, 2013)

Grape said:


> The problem is that kids shouldn't have to stick up for themselves.



What the fuck?



siyrean said:


> when the majority of people reading this post that have experienced first hand the effect of bullying, say they can understand where this kid is coming from, I would hazard to propose that this is a decent enough sample size of adults who now would never consider such action were they placed back in that situation but non-the-less can see themselves seriously considering it if they were still 13.
> 
> I think this shows that no, this is not any sort of isolated incident of a mentally unstable kid. This is what this kind of bullying does to otherwise normal individuals. It wears you down to the point where you see no future and no escape but more of the same. Day in and day out, constant fear, your body constantly in a state of fight or flight, can't trust anyone, you have to question everything anyone says in case it's a trap or set up, you need to know what time your bullies walk home and how much time you have to get from your locker and a good distance either behind or before them.
> 
> ...


LOL


Closet Pervert said:


> That's the stupidest thing i've heard the whole week.



Nah that's something called real shit of coarse most people in this thread wouldn't understand this.


----------



## Closet Pervert (Apr 9, 2013)

^Cygnus didn't seem very understanding there and neither do you. Granted, i was wrong to say what he said was stupid. I get his point.


----------



## avais100 (Apr 9, 2013)

Remembered as a hero by his friends and family? Suicide isn't the traits of a hero, its the easy way out. Kid should have just watched Rocky and got over it, some deep underlying issues going on that we don't know about or a blatant overreaction to get attention costing him his life in the process.

And before anyone here asks if i got bullied, yes i did. Life went on and got better.


----------



## Chains (Apr 9, 2013)

avais100 said:


> Remembered as a hero by his friends and family? Suicide isn't the traits of a hero, its the easy way out. Kid should have just watched Rocky and got over it, some deep underlying issues going on that we don't know about or a blatant overreaction to get attention costing him his life in the process.
> 
> And before anyone here asks if i got bullied, yes i did. Life went on and got better.



They called him a hero because he told on the kid. How that's heroic is beyond me.


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Apr 9, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> As a victim of bullying and harassment even into my College Years, I can completely sympathize with the young man who committed suicide. The bullies should be charged with harassment, assault, and manslaughter and tossed into a prison after being tried as ADULTS, not as stupid kids.



How did you get bullied in college? Where you in a frat or something? If not, I am struggling to imagine it'd be comparable to the type of bullying that happens in grade/middle/high school.


----------



## Chains (Apr 9, 2013)

^ Cyber bullying happens in both.


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## EJ (Apr 9, 2013)

I got bullied so damn long through my elementary and middle school years. Partly some of High School as well. Not sure if I would of ended up killing myself, but I can see where the kid was coming from. 

Anyone who doesn't understand why someone would do this over being bullied....needs to actually speak with more people who have experienced it. It's not really a joke, and it's not that they are weak. It's like a pack mentality, always looking to single out the black sheep every day, and it starts screwing with you mentally. Peer pressure every day, not focusing on your grades, trying to earn respect, etc. If someone doesn't understand how that can drive someone to the point of suicide then just..


----------



## Bishop (Apr 9, 2013)

Well, at least he won't be bullied anymore.Hope his family gets well.


----------



## Sanity Check (Apr 9, 2013)

I wonder about this type of thing.

What if a bully broke two ribs and an arm in a fight that was 20 versus 1.  Is it their fault for not fighting back against those odds?  From the way some people talk you would think they stare down gangs of attackers on a daily basis.  

Is it a means of acclimating students into social darwinism -- the principle that its natural and normal for those with influence and power to abuse it?  If its natural for bullies to abuse their advantages is it also natural for banks, employers and governments to abuse and exploit their influence?

Bullies are bullies for a reason.  Its usually because they're bigger and outweigh everyone else, or have overwhelming numbers backing them.  For all the talk about "standing up to bullies" I doubt most would do anything against the odds some of these kids face.

If its just one person with a decent height and size advantage, that would be more than enough for most people to run for cover.  5-20 people attacking you (which is pretty much what bullying amounts to right now) -- I would bet 99% of people wouldn't do anything other than curl up into a ball and try to survive.

"Stand up to bullies" my ass.  

/laem post


----------



## Deleted member 222538 (Apr 9, 2013)

Oh please half of the people in this thread are just talking shit acting like they're brave. Bravery isn't something many are blessed with so to see it in this thread in droves is damn laughable. Put yourself in other people's shoes before calling them a dumb ass and other names. It's easy to say suicide wasn't the answer when you are not the one being belittled and bullied everyday.


----------



## Gino (Apr 9, 2013)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> I wonder about this type of thing.
> 
> What if a bully broke two ribs and an arm in a fight that was 20 versus 1.  Is it their fault for not fighting back against those odds?  From the way some people talk you would think they stare down gangs of attackers on a daily basis.
> 
> ...



In 9th grade It was me and a friend versus 30 people 8 of those individuals were out of high school we handled ourselves just fine when it takes that many people to fight you somethings wrong. I'm saying this to say generalizing won't help your case.



Also I find it funny how some of you are making it seem like standing up for yourself is impossible.


----------



## Enclave (Apr 9, 2013)

2 vs 30?  Bullshit Gino, complete and total bullshit.


----------



## Gunners (Apr 9, 2013)

I love how these threads turn into a few obnoxious pricks shoehorning their tales of valour into the conversation. Get the fuck over yourself.


----------



## Gino (Apr 9, 2013)

Enclave said:


> 2 vs 30?  Bullshit Gino, complete and total bullshit.


When all else fails call someone a liar

Try harder.


Gunners said:


> I love how these threads turn into a few obnoxious pricks trying to shoehorn their tales of valour. Get the fuck over yourself.


What the fuck ever.


----------



## Enclave (Apr 9, 2013)

Gino, if 2 people get attacked by 30 people?  Those 2 people are fucked.  There's really no question unless those 2 people were armed with guns.

If you want to make up some bullshit maybe you should come up with something actually possible.


----------



## Gunners (Apr 9, 2013)

Overlooking the fact that 30 people with an intention to cause harm would beat your ass into the ground your lie fucked up due to you going into too much detail. 

1) You're not going to be able to count the number of people there. 
2) You're not going to be able to identify each individuals to the point that you can say 8 of them didn't go to your school.


----------



## Gino (Apr 9, 2013)

Enclave said:


> Gino, if 2 people get attacked by 30 people?  Those 2 people are fucked.  There's really no question unless those 2 people were armed with guns.
> 
> If you want to make up some bullshit maybe you should come up with something actually possible.



Did I say something about Guns I'm pretty sure I said in 9th grade It was me and a friend versus 30 people 8 of those people were out of high school we handled ourselves just fine which means we didn't fall or slip up you calling me a lie I say call it what the fuck you want I have no need to lie on the internet to people I don't fucking know the only fucks who need to get over themselves are you and everybody else who's like minded.


Gunners said:


> Overlooking the fact that 30 people with an intention to cause harm would beat your ass into the ground your lie fucked up due to you going into too much detail.
> 
> 1) You're not going to be able to count the number of people there.
> 2) You're not going to be able to identify each individuals to the point that you can say 8 of them didn't go to your school.



I find it funny bitches like to run their mouths like they were actually there you don't know what I know so go sit the fuck down this is why I say this generation is bitch made getting mad over an example.I don't feel like I have to spell it out for you muthafucka's.


Since I have nothing else to do I will be lurking this thread shutting people bullshit the fuck up.


----------



## Gunners (Apr 9, 2013)

Gino said:


> Did I say something about Guns I'm pretty sure I said in 9th grade It was me and a friend versus 30 people 8 of those people were out of high school we handled ourselves just fine which means we didn't fall our slip up you calling me a lie I say call it what the fuck you want I have no need to lie on the internetto people I don't fucking know the only fucks who need to get themselves are you and everybody else who's like minded.


And yet here you are, serving porkie pies to everyone in this thread.


----------



## Kahvehane (Apr 9, 2013)

I realize he's 13, but still:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHI-nhdS6j4[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Apr 9, 2013)

This thread has some real badasses, 2 people taking on 30 and with some 8 people that were above highschool level yet winning?This is'nt some action movie but do give us details of this supposed fight Gino.

Ignoring the fact that 30 people is too much to keep track of in a fight meaning plenty to gang up on you while you focus on one or four individuals at a time, I wonder why 30 people would need to fight 2 high schoolers when atleast 8 of their members are supposedly above high schoolers.


----------



## Gino (Apr 9, 2013)

Gunners said:


> And yet here you are, serving porkie pies to everyone in this thread.


This argument

OMG YOU'RE LYING get off my nuts.


Tranquil Fury said:


> This thread has some real badasses, 2 people taking on 30 and with some 8 people that were above highschool level yet winning?This is'nt some action movie but do give us details of this supposed fight Gino.



I said we handled ourselves just fine I don't remember saying winning reading is fucking fundamental.



Tranquil Fury said:


> Ignoring the fact that 30 people is too much to keep track of in a fight meaning plenty to gang up on you while you focus on one or four individuals at a time, I wonder why 30 people would need to fight 2 high schoolers when atleast 8 of their members are supposedly above high schoolers.



The fight was gang related I'll leave it at that and some of you are dumber than I thought you're acting like a fight can only go one way.AKA the scenerio that plays out in your head when you got asshurt over a statement I made.


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Apr 9, 2013)

Okay even if we go that route, give us a description and tell us what "fine" counts as.


----------



## Enclave (Apr 9, 2013)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Okay even if we go that route, give us a description and tell us what "fine" counts as.



Maybe fine just means being hospitalised for a week instead of being dead?


----------



## Gunners (Apr 9, 2013)

Gino said:


> I find it funny bitches like to run their mouths like they were actually there you don't know what I know so go sit the fuck down this is why I say this generation is bitch made getting mad over an example.I don't feel like I have to spell it out for you muthafucka's.
> 
> 
> Since I have nothing else to do I will be lurking this thread shutting people bullshit the fuck up.


*Slaps Gino* wake up son.


----------



## Gino (Apr 9, 2013)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Okay even if we go that route, give us a description and tell us what "fine" counts as.


We made sure not to trip or fall that's all there is to it and don't stay in one spot like a dumbass.


Enclave said:


> Maybe fine just means being hospitalised for a week instead of being dead?


LOL kid you have issues the only injury I had was a busted lip and an ripped earring hole.


Gunners said:


> *Slaps Gino* wake up son.



We're two different people crazy ain't it.


----------



## Gino (Apr 9, 2013)

So what I gathered from all the asshurt so far is I can't see myself possibly be able to handle myself in an similar situation so I'll call bullshit *insert badass over here meme yeah that'll show him* yeah.........


----------



## Enclave (Apr 9, 2013)

Why is it when people get called on their BS they always try to call the person calling them on it a kid when they have no idea how old the person they're talking to is?


----------



## Gino (Apr 9, 2013)

Enclave said:


> Why is it when people get called on their BS they always try to call the person calling them on it a kid when they have no idea how old the person they're talking to is?



Why is it when a person can't believe something they'll go through any length to help themselves sleep better at night at this point I could give a damn how old you are.


----------



## Closet Pervert (Apr 10, 2013)

Gino said:


> In 9th grade It was me and a friend versus 30 people 8 of those individuals were out of high school we handled ourselves just fine when it takes that many people to fight you somethings wrong. I'm saying this to say generalizing won't help your case.
> 
> 
> 
> Also I find it funny how some of you are making it seem like standing up for yourself is impossible.


You're the one generalizing can't you see that? Just because you were bullied doesn't mean you know what this kid or any other kid or anyone besides you has been going through. It's easy to say suicide is cowardly but every person's got a breaking point, every single one. You just haven't seen yours yet.

I do think people should fight for themselves so to speak when possible but easier said than done and sometimes it's not possible.


----------



## Gino (Apr 10, 2013)

Closet Pervert said:


> You're the one generalizing can't you see that? Just because you were bullied doesn't mean you know what this kid or any other kid or anyone besides you has been going through. It's easy to say suicide is cowardly but every person's got a breaking point, every single one. You just haven't seen yours yet.



Even though I agree with the last part of what you said what the hell are you talking about? Everything you typed in response to me never came from these fingers.


----------



## siyrean (Apr 10, 2013)

Gino said:


> In 9th grade It was me and a friend versus 30 people 8 of those individuals were out of high school we handled ourselves just fine when it takes that many people to fight you somethings wrong. I'm saying this to say generalizing won't help your case.
> 
> 
> 
> Also I find it funny how some of you are making it seem like standing up for yourself is impossible.



One fight, ONE FUCKING FIGHT.

You think that that's what constitutes as bullying? That that gives you a level of comparison? 
Well excuse me, I guess the times I fought back against boys bigger than me, the time I tried to get even, the times I had to constantly be the strong one protecting my friend who they targeted even more than me, for FIVE FUCKING YEARS,  makes us even right? 

I'm sorry, but you need to stop talking now.


----------



## Gino (Apr 10, 2013)

siyrean said:


> One fight, ONE FUCKING FIGHT.
> 
> You think that that's what constitutes as bullying? That that gives you a level of comparison?
> Well excuse me, I guess the times I fought back against boys bigger than me, the time I tried to get even, the times I had to constantly be the strong one protecting my friend who they targeted even more than me, for FIVE FUCKING YEARS,  makes us even right?
> ...




Feel better even though what you just said has shit to do with what I said reading is fundamental......


----------



## eHav (Apr 10, 2013)

its alwas nice reading the butthurt these topics create on all the ppl that let themselves get bullied


----------



## Gino (Apr 10, 2013)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> *If its just one person with a decent height and size advantage, that would be more than enough for most people to run for cover.  5-20 people attacking you (which is pretty much what bullying amounts to right now) -- I would bet 99% of people wouldn't do anything other than curl up into a ball and try to survive.
> 
> "Stand up to bullies" my ass*.
> 
> /laem post



 What I was responding to out of the whole damn reply sorry a response can cause immense asshurt for some shit that had nothing to do with you I was only speaking for myself but apparently I'm not allowed to do that without being called a lair as far I'm concerned you guys can suck it.


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## MS81 (Apr 10, 2013)

I never was bullied but I do think this ish is getting outta hand.


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## Mathias124 (Apr 10, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> As a victim of bullying and harassment even into my College Years, I can completely sympathize with the young man who committed suicide. The bullies should be charged with harassment, assault, and manslaughter and tossed into a prison after being tried as ADULTS, not as stupid kids.



If you let people bully past age 13 you're the fuckup, not them.
Christ what is with you, grow some fucking balls.

Most pathetic post i've ever seen


----------



## Mathias124 (Apr 10, 2013)

On the fight topic.

I was saw a 5th grader fuck up two 9 graders alone, and they werent pussies.


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## Chains (Apr 10, 2013)

Gino said:


> What I was responding to out of the whole damn reply sorry a response can cause immense asshurt for some shit that had nothing to do with you I was only speaking for myself but apparently* I'm not allowed to do that without being called a lair* as far I'm concerned you guys can suck it.



I have a question about this "fight" of yours. Are you claiming to have beat up 30 people, or did you and your friend just run away?


----------



## Gino (Apr 10, 2013)

Chains said:


> I have a question about this "fight" of yours. Are you claiming to have beat up 30 people, or did you and your friend just run away?



.............

Did I say we beat up 30 people tell me you're not this fucking stupid tell me you're not like the rest and no we didn't run away.

I keep forgetting there's no longer such a thing as holding your own in a fight next time I'll make sure to get stomped out because that's the only logical conclusion your feeble minds can comprehend .


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Apr 10, 2013)

Cygnus45 said:


> ^This.
> 
> It's really not that complicated. Kids are spoiled too much and become little punks.
> 
> ...



Things aren't that.



Mathias124 said:


> If you let people bully past age 13 you're the fuckup, not them.
> Christ what is with you, grow some fucking balls.
> 
> Most pathetic post i've ever seen



Don't be stupid. You're blaming the victim..


----------



## Mathias124 (Apr 10, 2013)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Things aren't that.
> 
> Don't be stupid. You're blaming the victim..



I know im blaming him.
He is obviously going around doing crazy stuff and freaking everyone out therefore people are bullying him.
If you let yourself get bullied at high school it is already pathetic, add university to that list and it should be painfully obvious this guy is asking for it.

A dude from a school near mine said he once fucked his dog and often played with its penis (13-14 years old), whose fault is it he got bullied?

Or the guy at my bording school who decided to force his tounge into the mouth of a sweet girl and repeatable did offensive and weird stuff like trying to broom someone in the ass, of course we're going to screw around with him.


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## Enclave (Apr 10, 2013)

Mathias124 said:


> I know im blaming him.
> He is obviously going around doing crazy stuff and freaking everyone out therefore people are bullying him.
> If you let yourself get bullied at high school it is already pathetic, add university to that list and it should be painfully obvious this guy is asking for it.
> 
> ...



I never did any stupid shit like you're talking about yet I was bullied all through highschool.  I'd tried fighting back, I'd tried trying to just disappear, I tried a lot of ways to get it to stop.  Nothing worked.

Basically?  People who don't know what the fuck they're talking about REALLY need to stop pretending to be experts.


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## Mathias124 (Apr 10, 2013)

Enclave said:


> I never did any stupid shit like you're talking about yet I was bullied all through highschool.  I'd tried fighting back, I'd tried trying to just disappear, I tried a lot of ways to get it to stop.  Nothing worked.
> 
> Basically?  People who don't know what the fuck they're talking about REALLY need to stop pretending to be experts.



Puhhlease, i changed school in the 9th grade and these 3 beefcakes tried to bully me, needless to say i just increased the volume of my headphones and walked home without letting it touch me.
Guess what i didnt let it get to me and i didnt react becuase as a former bully i know what ticks them off.

Its your own damn fault if you let stupid people get to you, and that what i was.


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## Grape (Apr 10, 2013)

Mathias124 said:


> Puhhlease, i changed school in the 9th grade and these 3 beefcakes tried to bully me, needless to say i just increased the volume of my headphones and walked home without letting it touch me.
> Guess what i didnt let it get to me and i didnt react becuase as a former bully i know what ticks them off.
> 
> Its your own damn fault if you let stupid people get to you, and that what i am.





fixed :tada


----------



## Enclave (Apr 10, 2013)

Mathias124 said:


> Puhhlease, i changed school in the 9th grade and these 3 beefcakes tried to bully me, needless to say i just increased the volume of my headphones and walked home without letting it touch me.
> Guess what i didnt let it get to me and i didnt react becuase as a former bully i know what ticks them off.
> 
> Its your own damn fault if you let stupid people get to you, and that what i was.



I didn't realise turning up the volume on your headphones created a forcefield which prevented physical assault.  That's pretty fucking amazing tech.


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## Grape (Apr 10, 2013)

It's so smart it's ignorant!


----------



## eHav (Apr 10, 2013)

Enclave said:


> I never did any stupid shit like you're talking about yet I was bullied all through highschool.  I'd tried fighting back, I'd tried trying to just disappear, I tried a lot of ways to get it to stop.  Nothing worked.
> 
> Basically?  People who don't know what the fuck they're talking about REALLY need to stop pretending to be experts.



so you were just a perfectly fine young guy, who happened to be the target of bullies for no reason whatsoever? i find highly unlikely. every person i ever knew that was bullied had a reason for that. most were completely socially inept, and stood out due to how completely awkward and out of place they looked.

hell i used to wear a cap all the time, and older guys would take it from me and pass it betwen them. i would just stand there looking at them not caring and they would get bored. then i got older and everything stopped.

 Also, how come bullied guys never have friends? because if they did, their friends would stand up for them. If they didnt, then clearly there's something off with them. Stop acting like hopeless victims.


----------



## Enclave (Apr 10, 2013)

Oh I certainly know the reason.  Back in grade 3 is when it started.  I had a friend, he was a bit odd but a good guy.  Everybody bullied him except me.  Eventually most of my "friends" told me to stop being his friend if I wanted to stay their friend.  I refused to stop being his friend so they started bullying me.

The bullying continued straight through elementary school and highschool.  I'm sure they had LONG since forgotten why they started bullying me but that didn't stop the bullying.

Also, I did in fact have friends, I wasn't totally alone.  That said I had a very small number of friends and the number of friends I had was significantly less than the number of people who bullied me.  My friends tried to help me as best they could but it wasn't nearly enough to stop the bullying.

But you know what?  You were never seriously bullied so you obviously know everything about it.  Me?  I was just bullied for about 9 years, I obviously don't know anything about the subject and thus bow to your superior knowledge.


----------



## Grape (Apr 10, 2013)

eHav said:


> so you were just a perfectly fine young guy, who happened to be the target of bullies for no reason whatsoever? i find highly unlikely. every person i ever knew that was bullied had a reason for that. most were completely socially inept, and stood out due to how completely awkward and out of place they looked.
> 
> hell i used to wear a cap all the time, and older guys would take it from me and pass it betwen them. i would just stand there looking at them not caring and they would get bored. then i got older and everything stopped.
> 
> Also, how come bullied guys never have friends? because if they did, their friends would stand up for them. If they didnt, then clearly there's something off with them. Stop acting like hopeless victims.




Holy shit that is ignorant.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Apr 10, 2013)

Mathias124 said:


> If you let people bully past age 13 you're the fuckup, not them.
> Christ what is with you, grow some fucking balls.
> 
> Most pathetic post i've ever seen


From your posts, I see your a sociopath and probably a bully as well.


----------



## eHav (Apr 10, 2013)

Enclave said:


> Oh I certainly know the reason.  Back in grade 3 is when it started.  I had a friend, he was a bit odd but a good guy.  Everybody bullied him except me.  Eventually most of my "friends" told me to stop being his friend if I wanted to stay their friend.  I refused to stop being his friend so they started bullying me.
> 
> The bullying continued straight through elementary school and highschool.  I'm sure they had LONG since forgotten why they started bullying me but that didn't stop the bullying.
> 
> ...



so there was a reason. it was that friend of yours. why did ppl bully him in the first place?

also, dont act like you have to be bullied to have a proper opinion. how about you do listen to ppl who never got bullied and figure out whats diferent? or why they never were and you were?

all the "you were never bullied so your opinion doesnt count" bullshit has to stop.

and im still waiting for grape to give proper reasoning other that calling everyone ignorant.


----------



## Enclave (Apr 10, 2013)

No, it doesn't have to stop.  You're talking out of your ass about a subject you don't know anything about.  You're even going so far as to blame the victim because the victims aren't immune to blunt force trauma to the face or being thrown in trash cans or being spit on or any number of other things.

You really are ignorant on this subject and the reason is you have no real experience with it yourself.

When I'm talking about a subject I don't know much about I will trust that people who do have experience with the subject know more than I do on it.  If for some idiotic reason I decide to sound off like I know what I'm talking about and they tell me I'm ignorant on the subject and don't know what I'm talking about?  I'm not going to tell them off, I'm going to trust that they're correct and I'm not because they're the ones who actually know unlike me.


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## Mochi (Apr 10, 2013)

RIP.

Poor boy, such a horrible way to end a life.


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## Deleted member 222538 (Apr 10, 2013)

Gino said:


> Did I say something about Guns I'm pretty sure I said in 9th grade It was me and a friend versus 30 people 8 of those people were out of high school we handled ourselves just fine which means we didn't fall or slip up you calling me a lie I say call it what the fuck you want I have no need to lie on the internet to people I don't fucking know the only fucks who need to get over themselves are you and everybody else who's like minded.
> 
> 
> I find it funny bitches like to run their mouths like they were actually there you don't know what I know so go sit the fuck down this is why I say this generation is bitch made getting mad over an example.I don't feel like I have to spell it out for you muthafucka's.
> ...



Gosh shut the fuck. Your fairy tale is ridiculous and your valor is even more laughable.


----------



## Louis-954 (Apr 10, 2013)

Guess what, Enclave. Sounds like you had it a whole hell of a lot worse than this kid did, same as me, and you're still alive today to talk about it. That's the reason I don't sympathize with teenage suicide victims who cite bullying as the reason.


----------



## Enclave (Apr 10, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> Guess what, Enclave. Sounds like you had it a whole hell of a lot worse than this kid did, same as me, and you're still alive today to talk about it. That's the reason I don't sympathize with teenage suicide victims who cite bullying as the reason.



Who knows how bad this kid had it, the only one who really knows is him and he's dead.

I can totally understand why he killed himself.  I may have ended up doing the same thing if I didn't have any friends to help me get through school.

I had developed SERIOUS anger issues for a few years because of all this.  I haven't really mentioned this to anybody but the idea of killing myself when I was a kid did cross my mind a couple times.  I really thought life was always going to be like that.


----------



## Mathias124 (Apr 10, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> From your posts, I see your a sociopath and probably a bully as well.



Being bullied in college tells me that you're not normal, you were actually such a sociopath that you couldnt enter a new school without people picking on you.

Keep writing fanfics and pretend you aren't an oddball who invites it.
Christ, even people in college couldnt help but pick on you, i've never even hear of university bullying


----------



## Ezekial (Apr 10, 2013)

Bullying is wrong, but a victim of bullying who kills themselves is nothing but a selfish coward, if that offends anyone I don't really care, there are plenty of ways to deal with bullies.


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## Rabbit and Rose (Apr 10, 2013)

Maybe the kids that wanted to fuck him up hanged him and blamed it on suicide. That's a real fucked up school.


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## Hand Banana (Apr 10, 2013)

Ezekial said:


> Bullying is wrong, but a victim of bullying who kills themselves is nothing but a selfish coward, if that offends anyone I don't really care, there are plenty of ways to deal with bullies.



Mind you we're talking about a 13 who doesn't possess knowledge like an adult. But ok. No such thing as teens making rash decision.


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## Mathias124 (Apr 10, 2013)

Daz Amazing said:


> Mind you we're talking about a 13 who doesn't possess knowledge like an adult. But ok. No such thing as teens making rash decision.



Because there is no such thing as an adult making a rash decision amirite?


----------



## Ezekial (Apr 10, 2013)

Daz Amazing said:


> Mind you we're talking about a 13 who doesn't possess knowledge like an adult. But ok. No such thing as teens making rash decision.



Are you telling me a 13 year old shouldn't know he/she could speak to an adult/teacher/parent etc


----------



## Hand Banana (Apr 10, 2013)

Mathias124 said:


> Because there is no such thing as an adult making a rash decision amirite?



Comparing the decisaion making of an adult to that of a child? There are cases where that's logical. In this case, it's not logical to compare. No, you are not right.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Apr 10, 2013)

Ezekial said:


> Are you telling me a 13 year old shouldn't know he/she could speak to an adult/teacher/parent etc


Anyone whose been bullied knows Adults are Useless. They either brush it off, don't address it, or if you happen to fight back? The bullied person gets blamed.


----------



## Enclave (Apr 10, 2013)

Yup, plenty of ways like ignoring them as they push you around and dump you in a trash can or steal your backpack and books.  Or how about telling a teacher who then ignores you?  How about fighting back only for it to be 1 vs many?

Yeah, all those ways work FANTASTICALLY, yup.


----------



## Hand Banana (Apr 10, 2013)

Ezekial said:


> Are you telling me a 13 year old shouldn't know he/she could speak to an adult/teacher/parent etc





			
				Article said:
			
		

> Brown voiced his concerns to Rothschild Middle School, but officials told him they hadn't heard of any issues, he said.
> 
> "They just kind of let it go," Brown said.


----------



## Mathias124 (Apr 10, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Anyone whose been bullied knows Adults are Useless. They either brush it off, don't address it, or if you happen to fight back? The bullied person gets blamed.



Funny, i remember bullying in my public school being stopped by the teachers and parents


----------



## Hand Banana (Apr 10, 2013)

Mathias124 said:


> Funny, i remember bullying in my public school being stopped by the teachers and parents



Did this child go to your school?


----------



## Ezekial (Apr 10, 2013)

BULLSHIT! A parent would not ignore a child in need unless that parent is scum, nor would a teacher, I understand that some teachers will ignore a bully victim, however it's still a selfish act and no amount of bullying can result in suicide unless the victim is weak minded, no sympathy.


----------



## Mathias124 (Apr 10, 2013)

Daz Amazing said:


> Did this child go to your school?



We werent talking specifics anymore so i dont see the revelance of that post.


----------



## Enclave (Apr 10, 2013)

Ezekial said:


> BULLSHIT! A parent would not ignore a child in need unless that parent is scum, nor would a teacher, I understand that some teachers will ignore a bully victim, however it's still a selfish act and no amount of bullying can result in suicide unless the victim is weak minded, no sympathy.



How how little you know.

There's only so many options open to the parent of the kid being bullied.  Teachers can do more but generally won't.


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (Apr 10, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> I know I'm going to get negged and I really don't mean to sound insensitive but wtf is it with this generation of kids? They need to sack up and start sticking up for themselves a bit more.  I'm finding it harder and harder these days to sympathize with these kids.



I completely agree with this. I had to deal with some jerks/bullies in my youth and I can't imagine why someone would think this is the solution. Obviously this is a tragedy, and I feel bad for the kids family, but this generation of kids is really soft.


----------



## Ezekial (Apr 10, 2013)

Enclave said:


> How how little you know.
> 
> There's only so many options open to the parent of the kid being bullied.  Teachers can do more but generally won't.



No any respectable parent would defuse the situation by either informing the police, complain at the school or dealing with bully or bullies parents directly. No child should or be bullied, it's up to the parents to deal with it, still my view on the suicide still stands.


----------



## Hand Banana (Apr 10, 2013)

Ezekial said:


> No any respectable parent would defuse the situation by either informing the police, complain at the school or dealing with bully or bullies parents directly. No child should or be bullied, it's up to the parents to deal with it, still *my view* on the suicide still stands.



Everyone is entitled to their own *opinion*. But you're not stating any facts. Just letting you know.


----------



## Gino (Apr 10, 2013)

Normality said:


> Gosh shut the fuck. Your fairy tale is ridiculous and your valor is even more laughable.



Selective Reading comprehension at work yet again.

Next muthafucka to call me a liar or say I'm bragging where in fact I've done neither I swear I'm getting banned just for you I promise.


----------



## Ezekial (Apr 10, 2013)

Daz Amazing said:


> Everyone is entitled to their own *opinion*. But you're not stating any facts. Just letting you know.



Neither are you, and it's a fact that teachers are by law required to protect children in their care.


----------



## Hand Banana (Apr 10, 2013)

Ezekial said:


> Neither are you, and it's a fact that teachers are by law required to protect children in their care.



I posted that the article already said he went to a teacher. Fact.


----------



## Gino (Apr 10, 2013)

_Let this be a response everyone else with selective reading comprehension.


So let's all cut the bullshit down the middle look at the root of this petty ass problem posters have with me._




_>Made a statement based on an event in my life didn't go into specifics was merely *my way* of saying not to generalize or trying to make it seem like standing up for yourself is impossible._

_>(Retarded posters taking the statement out of context) OMG 2 versus 30 people and WON *?!?!! OMG HE's lying*(never said I won)_

_>Then I gotta explain to posters what handling ourselves just fine  means which simply means not getting beat to a fucking pulp or crawling  up in a ball as immortal Itachi said._

>_Posters hop on that Gino hate train without understanding the statement._​ 

>_Thread went full retard_​ 
>

This shit is not an argument It's not my fault you guys got offended by a  post you didn't understand not once did I say we won not once did I say  we were some ultra badasses who beat up 30 people and you would have be  a real dumb ass to even remotely think that's what I said.You can bring  all the logic in the world to my reply and try to dissect it all you  want to and still be fucking wrong because you will not and can not  argue against facts and the fun thing about this is I still don't owe  anybody any explanation on what went down quit being nosy and stay the  fuck out my business but to sit here and say I'm lying because you say  so yeah.... y'all got me fucked up.Have a nice day


Yes I mad.


----------



## Vasto Lorde King (Apr 10, 2013)

Gino said:


> _Let this be a response everyone else with selective reading comprehension.
> 
> 
> So let's all cut the bullshit down the middle look at the root of this petty ass problem posters have with me._
> ...



Sorry for butting in. The reason you get attacked from all sides is because your story sounds so unbelievable. 2vs30 would be considered bad odds even for trained martial artists. Yes I'm aware that some people can be physcally stronger and faster then each other however you guys had to deal with a major number advantage and size advantage on thier sides possibly given 8 of them were appearantly older people. Then given you two are figthing 30 people at once your movement space would most likely be consideralbly smaller as well.

I wonder how you took so little damage considering those odds? How did you manage to not get knocked down within the first 2 seconds. How did you  fend of 30 people who can each attack you with 4 limbs with just the help of your friend? Not to mention the incredibly high chances of getting ambushed from your blind sides.

I consider your chances of you holding your own incredibly small. Maby this can be cleared up if you went into more detail about this particular event.


----------



## Bringer (Apr 10, 2013)

Gino said:


> .............
> 
> Did I say we beat up 30 people tell me you're not this fucking stupid tell me you're not like the rest and no we didn't run away.
> 
> I keep forgetting there's no longer such a thing as holding your own in a fight next time I'll make sure to get stomped out because that's the only logical conclusion your feeble minds can comprehend .



So let me get this straight, from what I've gathered...

*It was two people
*Those people were you and your friend
*You were up against 30 people
*8 of them happened to be out of high school[If you don't mind me asking... how exactly did you know they weren't in high school?]
*You didn't run
*You didn't win
*They didn't win
*Meaning it was a stalemate, you just hold your own not getting your ass kicked until they got bored and left


I'm sorry, but this sounds too much of a stretch, the only way for this to even be plausible if they all didn't attack at once.


----------



## Gino (Apr 10, 2013)

Tensa IchiGetsu said:


> Sorry for butting in. The reason you get attacked from all sides is because your story sounds so unbelievable. 2vs30 would be considered bad odds even for trained martial artists. Yes I'm aware that some people can be physcally stronger and faster then each other however you guys had to deal with a major number advantage and size advantage on thier sides possibly given 8 of them were appearantly older people. Then given you two are figthing 30 people at once your movement space would most likely be consideralbly smaller as well.
> 
> I wonder how you took so little damage considering those odds? How did you manage to not get knocked down within the first 2 seconds. How did you  fend of 30 people who can each attack you with 4 limbs with just the help of your friend? Not to mention the incredibly high chances of getting ambushed from your blind sides.
> 
> I consider your chances of you holding your own incredibly small. Maby this can be cleared up if you went into more detail about this particular event.


Read Below.





BringerOfChaos said:


> *You were up against 30 people*8 of them happened to be out of high school[If you don't mind me asking... how exactly did you know they weren't in high school?


The people I fighting were under these individuals in gang terms they were OG's(lol) Also I had confrontations with these certain individual before prior to this event in the span of that high school year and the year before last they stayed in my apartment complex etc...



BringerOfChaos said:


> *You didn't run


We couldn't really run.


BringerOfChaos said:


> *You didn't win


Winning was out the question


BringerOfChaos said:


> *They didn't win


They didn't knock us down so they could stomp us out.


BringerOfChaos said:


> *Meaning it was a stalemate, you just  hold your own not getting your ass kicked until they got bored and left


Trading blows and moving and they tried to circle us many many times also fighting on school campus=police so the fight didn't last that long.





BringerOfChaos said:


> I'm sorry, but this sounds too much of a stretch, the only way for this to even be plausible if they all didn't attack at once.




Everyone who could get a hit in tried to get a hit in the only I could do was doge and block and not fall because if I did I would have been fucked.


If you people are still taking my statement of out context after this somethings wrong with you.


----------



## blueblip (Apr 10, 2013)

Gino said:


> Read Below.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And I'm sure the 'fight' was made all the easier thanks to LSD you dropped...

Holy shit, but some people will say ANYTHING to impress a bunch of facelss strangers on the Internet. Gino son, get a life, grow up, get out of the house, explore the world, and have some real tales to tell. I mean, your 'explanation' makes even less sense than if you claimed you and your friend beat up 30 people...

EDIT: smh at people saying the 13 year old should have just sucked it up but are okay with adults not having to 'suck it up' if their boss tells them to 'go fuck themselves' or something similar in an office.


----------



## eHav (Apr 10, 2013)

blueblip said:


> And I'm sure the 'fight' was made all the easier thanks to LSD you dropped...
> 
> Holy shit, but some people will say ANYTHING to impress a bunch of facelss strangers on the Internet. Gino son, get a life, grow up, get out of the house, explore the world, and have some real tales to tell. I mean, your 'explanation' makes even less sense than if you claimed you and your friend beat up 30 people...
> 
> EDIT: smh at people saying the 13 year old should have just sucked it up but are okay with adults not having to 'suck it up' if their boss tells them to 'go fuck themselves' or something similar in an office.



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTjiTS0nxC0[/YOUTUBE]

see how easy it it to stand up to a lot more people than you? get a grip.


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## Gino (Apr 10, 2013)

blueblip said:


> And I'm sure the 'fight' was made all the easier thanks to LSD you dropped...
> 
> Holy shit, but some people will say ANYTHING to impress a bunch of facelss strangers on the Internet. Gino son, get a life, grow up, get out of the house, explore the world, and have some real tales to tell. I mean, your 'explanation' makes even less sense than if you claimed you and your friend beat up 30 people...




Some of you really are this fucking stupid.Once again I lost the moment I started taking some of you seriously this will never happen again and based on you're reply I'm gonna be an asshole and  say you're probably a bitch who knows nothing of hard times. I know nothing about you never heard of you in till now but this is the truth because I say so.Also some of you are really tough behind these keyboards.

Any other reply to me basically saying the same shit these others ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) said don't even bother.


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## blueblip (Apr 10, 2013)

Gino said:


> Some of you really are this fucking stupid.Once again I lost the moment I started taking some of you seriously this will never happen again and based on you're reply I'm gonna be an asshole and  say you're probably a bitch who knows nothing of hard times. I know nothing about you never heard of you in till now but this is the truth because I say so.*Also some of you are really tough behind these keyboards.*
> 
> Any other reply to me basically saying the same shit these others ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) said don't even bother.


Coming from a guy who's trying to spin a dance off against 30 people as a 'fight', that's pretty rich.

But yeah, I was being an asshole with that post, so I apologise from that at least. And yeah, I'll admit I've had a good life; I was lucky enough to have parents that gave me that life, so I won't lie and say something else.

But it still doesn't change the fact that you're lying through your teeth. Due to my own stupidity (and despite my fortunate upbringing), I chose a profession that quite often takes me to most hell holes on this planet on a regular basis, so I do know a thing or two about how dangerous thirty people looking to grind my bones into the pavement can be. And from first hand experience I can tell you that thirty people (which would make it a mob, by the way) is something that's usually handled by cops in riot gear, and with great difficulty at that. So unless you and your homeboy are tougher than a squad of cops in riot gear...

Lookit kid, you want to think two guys can walk away with nothing more than a busted lip while taking on 30 people at once, be my guest. Just don't be stupid and actually try and pull this stunt off in real life. Trust me; being fed through a straw for 4-5 months in a hospital bed might still be better than being dead, but just barely.


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## Gino (Apr 10, 2013)

blueblip said:


> Coming from a guy who's trying to spin a dance off against 30 people as a 'fight', that's pretty rich.
> 
> But yeah, I was being an asshole with that post, so I apologise from that at least. And yeah, I'll admit I've had a good life; I was lucky enough to have parents that gave me that life, so I won't lie and say something else.
> 
> ...



 Why are you responding to me with a paraphrased version of you're previous post you can call me a lair all day and guess what at the end of the day son it's still the truth whether you wanna believe it or not like I said I'm done trying to prove my self on the internet and your stupidity is shining brightly I don't know what reality you people are living in but a situation doesn't go a certain way because you say so and since you're such a genius who's from the streets tell me what you know about GD's BD's ,ViceLords,Crips and Bloods.If you take too long I'm gonna assume Wikipedia.




Enclave said:


> Note, he was in a confined space and people were  terrified of getting close to him.  He wasn't being attacked by all  those people.
> 
> Don't know why you're feeding Ginos delusions.



I keep forgetting you were there tell me you remember what started the fight right since you were there.

with a mind frame like yours I hate to say it but it's no wonder you got picked on.This is now the truth don't try to change it.


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## Enclave (Apr 10, 2013)

eHav said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTjiTS0nxC0[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> see how easy it it to stand up to a lot more people than you? get a grip.



Note, he was in a confined space and people were terrified of getting close to him.  He wasn't being attacked by all those people.

Don't know why you're feeding Ginos delusions.


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## eHav (Apr 10, 2013)

Enclave said:


> Note, he was in a confined space and people were terrified of getting close to him.  He wasn't being attacked by all those people.
> 
> Don't know why you're feeding Ginos delusions.



if you are fighting higher numbers, if you manage to hurt one, others will be more carefull when getting near. no one wants to be the next guy to risk having it happen to them. and that can give you a chance to escape or get help


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## blueblip (Apr 10, 2013)

Gino said:


> Why are you responding to me with a paraphrased version of you're previous post you can call me a lair all day and guess what at the end of the day son it's still the truth whether you wanna believe it or not like I said I'm done trying to prove my self on the internet and your stupidity is shining brightly I don't know what reality you people are living in but a situation doesn't go a certain way because you say so and since you're such a genius who's from the streets tell me what you know about GD's BD's ,ViceLords,Crips and Bloods.If you take too long I'm gonna assume Wikipedia.


And I never said I'm from the streets; I come across all this shit thanks to my job. Didn't you read my first post in this thread?

We have gangs like the Bloods and Crips in my country, and I've come across them as well. Hell, they're in every damn country on this planet. Why on earth would you think the US has a monopoly on street thugs? There are parts of this planet where gangs like the Crips aren't just limited to the hoods, but are right there in every damn neighbourhood. And unlike the gangs you mentioned, a lot of these have political backing. They can kill cops in broad daylight, with news cameras catching them in the act, and still run free thanks to political pull.

You can faff about street-cred all you want, but let me tell you this - street gangs, while bad, are hardly the worst things on this planet. And I say this after having inside a place like Cabrini-Green in Chicago. I've been in and out of violent neighbourhoods in many parts of the world, and I can tell you this - no street thug is ever going to take on 30 guys with just one other guy for backup. Not unless it's a friggin' movie. What they actually do is run their ass off and hope they don't get caught.



			
				eHav said:
			
		

> if you are fighting higher numbers, if you manage to hurt one, others will be more carefull when getting near. no one wants to be the next guy to risk having it happen to them. and that can give you a chance to escape or get help


Well, that really depends on how badly they want to spill your blood. If it's about something relatively trivial, then yeah, no one's going to want a bloody nose for it. But if they want you dead, then you punching two or three people isn't going to stop them from caving in your skull one way or another.


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## Grape (Apr 10, 2013)

I'm sure Gino was in a massive fight with 30 against two.

Makes complete sense.



Gino is a troll. eHav is a troll. They're probably the same person.


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## Tranquil Fury (Apr 10, 2013)

eHav said:


> *Also, how come bullied guys never have friends?* because if they did, their friends would stand up for them. If they didnt, then clearly there's something off with them. Stop acting like hopeless victims.



What?You're saying a group of friends don't get together to bully?where did you even get your "Bullies don't have friends" nonsense from?

Some people simpy enjoy hurting other people be it physically or emotionally. Other times it's more akin to an initiation like the Freshmen examples of being bullied by older year students in high school or Uni. 

I'm not saying people should let others walk all over them but a bully is still a person, they have friends too and don't need a good reason to do what they do besides enjoying it.



> if you are fighting higher numbers, if you manage to hurt one, others will be more carefull when getting near. no one wants to be the next guy to risk having it happen to them. and that can give you a chance to escape or get help



Not when the numbers are so large  and even with if we assume 30 people become cautious over 2 people this would still end not well unless this was in a confined space and everyone else was in front. 

Being more cautious means they'll attack from everywhere at once to distract while they restrain. There'd be like 15 people for each person which is more than enough to hold a person down.


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## animeguy91 (Apr 10, 2013)

Kill them. If you are just going to kill yourself anyway, kill them first. You got nothing to lose and will make a real point.


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## God Movement (Apr 10, 2013)

Suicide will never be an acceptable way out.


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## Gino (Apr 10, 2013)

blueblip said:


> And I never said I'm from the streets; I come across all this shit thanks to my job. Didn't you read my first post in this thread?
> 
> We have gangs like the Bloods and Crips in my country, and I've come across them as well. Hell, they're in every damn country on this planet. Why on earth would you think the US has a monopoly on street thugs? There are parts of this planet where gangs like the Crips aren't just limited to the hoods, but are right there in every damn neighbourhood. And unlike the gangs you mentioned, a lot of these have political backing. They can kill cops in broad daylight, with news cameras catching them in the act, and still run free thanks to political pull.
> 
> ...





Grape said:


> I'm sure Gino was in a massive fight with 30 against two.
> 
> Makes complete sense.
> 
> ...





Tranquil Fury said:


> Not when the numbers are so large  and even with if we assume 30 people become cautious over 2 people this would still end not well.
> 
> Being more cautious means they'll attack from everywhere at once to distract while they restrain. There'd be like 15 people for each person.



 I'm done bitches believe what you want I just know that 95% of you in this thread ain't bout that life not in the slightest and most of you would probably get destroyed in a one on one fight the nerve of you bitches


/tough guy talk

Ehav thanks for not being a dick may the rest of you rot in imaginary hell.


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## blueblip (Apr 10, 2013)

Gino said:


> I'm done bitches believe what you want I just know that 95% of you in this thread ain't bout that life not in the slightest and most of you would probably get destroyed in a one on one fight the nerve of you bitches
> 
> 
> /tough guy talk
> ...


Just don't be stupid and actually try taking on 30 people at once. Please.


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## Cygnus45 (Apr 10, 2013)

Normality said:


> Oh please half of the people in this thread are just talking shit acting like they're brave. Bravery isn't something many are blessed with so to see it in this thread in droves is damn laughable. Put yourself in other people's shoes before calling them a dumb ass and other names. It's easy to say suicide wasn't the answer when you are not the one being belittled and bullied everyday.



Yeah, okay, WHATEVER. 

I got bullied my whole life and still do. It's called dealing with peer pressure, criticism from my colleagues, jealousy, haters, and being ridiculed for being original and being myself. I don't wanna hear it. 

You're right about one thing, not everyone is brave or thick-skinned. But many parents are at fault for letting them turn out that way. Stop letting the TV become the baby-sitter and make sure they get their homework done before they go to the mall and blow their brains out with nonsense. 

And beat they ass when they get out of line.

*Sigh*, Genius is never understood in it's time... 



> I wonder about this type of thing.
> 
> What if a bully broke two ribs and an arm in a fight that was 20 versus 1. Is it their fault for not fighting back against those odds? From the way some people talk you would think they stare down gangs of attackers on a daily basis.
> 
> ...



1-If I'm facing 20 ^ (use bro) and I happen to kill all 20, then the only thing I'm concerned with is if I'll be able to wash the blood out of my clothes. 

2-Yes it's natural. Power corrupts. Everyone wants it, no one (except a few) can handle it. But it is always dangerous no matter how smart or capable the individual(s).

3-Bullies are bullies because they're pussies. Pussies are insecure around cocks and assholes because they're confident in themselves and know what they want to do in life and stick to it. Bullies are haters, plain and simple. Stop pointing fingers at others and point fingers at yourself to check yourself before you wreck yourself. #swag

4-I would simply cut lose and mow down everything I see if it's more than 10 people. And if anyone asks, yes, I've had to deal with more than a few situations like that before. Even the cops didn't help, they _watched_.


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## cnorwood (Apr 10, 2013)

Tranquil Fury said:


> What?You're saying a group of friends don't get together to bully?where did you even get your "Bullies don't have friends" nonsense from?
> 
> Some people simpy enjoy hurting other people be it physically or emotionally. Other times it's more akin to an initiation like the Freshmen examples of being bullied by older year students in high school or Uni.
> 
> I'm not saying people should let others walk all over them but a bully is still a person, they have friends too and don't need a good reason to do what they do besides enjoying it.


Reading comprehension is important


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## Grape (Apr 11, 2013)

Gino said:


> I'm done bitches believe what you want I just know that 95% of you in this thread ain't bout that life not in the slightest and most of you would probably get destroyed in a one on one fight the nerve of you bitches
> 
> 
> /tough guy talk
> ...




I was stabbed in the lung and heart, died on an operating table for seven minutes and was put into an induced coma for three and a half weeks.

Please, tell me more about how much of a bad ass _you_ are.


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Apr 11, 2013)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9noEygJdFg[/YOUTUBE]

quick browse and the above seems rleevant


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## Mider T (Apr 11, 2013)

This thread gave me jollies all day.


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## Lucaniel (Apr 11, 2013)

Cygnus45 said:


> 1-If I'm facing 20 ^ (use bro) and I happen to kill all 20, then the only thing I'm concerned with is if I'll be able to wash the blood out of my clothes.
> 
> 3-Bullies are bullies because they're pussies. Pussies are insecure around cocks and assholes because they're confident in themselves and know what they want to do in life and stick to it. Bullies are haters, plain and simple. Stop pointing fingers at others and point fingers at yourself to check yourself before you wreck yourself. #swag
> 
> 4-I would simply cut lose and mow down everything I see if it's more than 10 people.



isn't it wonderful when you find a genuine twelve-year-old on here?

not just a rather slow individual who you pretend is twelve for rhetorical purposes, but an honest-to-god child


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## Sygurgh (Apr 11, 2013)

I wonder what is more likely. That this forum is populated by the descendents on Bruce Lee, or by people trying to sound tough.


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## Bansai (Apr 11, 2013)

I have to be honest, I'm not shocked at all. Each generation is getting worse and educationist are getting more and more sloppy. When I look at what's going on in all kinds of schools, I seriously can't be surprised about such a thing. Nowadays, everyone can be called an educationist after a few years of studying in a university. Doing so is the easiest thing on earth, no matter whether you hate children or not. It is them who fail to prevent such things, because they no longer care. A teacher needs to like what he's doing, he needs to know what he's doing and he needs to be able to talk to his students and protect them, no matter if their problem is related with their marks or not.
I remember how it was back then in my school. Each teacher told bullied students to talk with other teachers about this or just tell their parents, because they simply don't care what happens to their students. They're not really interested in this job and this is EXACTLY why such things happen. The teachers in my high school admit that the only reason why they became teachers was because they have more free time as a teacher. Being a teacher is a huge responsibility and so many teachers are not responsible at all, yet everyone has a chance to become a teacher because it's no longer about one's personality, it's all about qualifications. 
In this case, the teachers should have figured that out somehow. I am absolutely sure that they knew about it and just ignored it, since they didn't consider it part of their job.


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## Byrd (Apr 11, 2013)

I used to live in the city this happens... sadly... 

although suicide is never the answer... if he could have only found a better solution than taking his life. Hopefully the people who bullied him feel tormented by this for the rest of their lives


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## Lord Yu (Apr 11, 2013)

Emporio Ivankov said:


> Each generation is getting worse



They have been saying this since Sumeria. Anyone who opens with this argument instantly invalidates what they say after. Let me tell you we're a whole lot better off than if we were serfs in a feudal system.  The mere fact public education exists makes us better. Humans have been around 336,000 years and have had 10,000 years of civilization. We're going to need another 10,000 to get it right.


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## eHav (Apr 11, 2013)

Sygurgh said:


> I wonder what is more likely. That this forum is populated by the descendents on Bruce Lee, or by people trying to sound tough.



and still they are outweighed by all the moralist primadonas in here


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## Bansai (Apr 11, 2013)

Lord Yu said:


> They have been saying this since Sumeria. Anyone who opens with this argument instantly invalidates what they say after. Let me tell you we're a whole lot better off than if we were serfs in a feudal system.  The mere fact public education exists makes us better. Humans have been around 336,000 years and have had 10,000 years of civilization. We're going to need another 10,000 to get it right.



Of course I know that the current circumstances are a lot better than they were several years ago, but this wasn't what I was trying to say. I agree with what you say but yet I am convinced that we can't just be statisfied with what we have achieved already, we need to aim higher as soon as we reached our goal. Without public education, the situation would be horrible, yes, yet that does not mean we should leave it at that just because we have already achieved something big. Things can be improved, and as long as that's possible we should aim for that. I understand what you say, that sentence of mine sounded really ignorant and I apologize for that, but this is not how I meant it. When I talk about previous generations, I talk about the generations which have existed after we had a solid education system. I am not comparing the current generation with the generation that has been hit by their teachers or anything, I am comparing them to the previous generation, because I can clearly see how different this generation is from the previous one and the one before. We have a solid education system in many countries, but I think it's clear that the limits of this education system are being more exceeded by students than they were a few years ago.


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## bigduo209 (Apr 11, 2013)

This is utterly ridiculous, no one deserves to be disrespected for doing the right thing.

It's a cruel environment we live in where too many injustices go unanswered. I just wish that more people with positive attitudes and good intentions would be better able to endure these tough times, and hopefully come out of it stronger as an example to others.


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## Sanity Check (Apr 11, 2013)

Gino said:


> In 9th grade It was me and a friend versus 30 people 8 of those individuals were out of high school we handled ourselves just fine when it takes that many people to fight you somethings wrong. I'm saying this to say generalizing won't help your case.
> 
> Also I find it funny how some of you are making it seem like standing up for yourself is impossible.



Statistically, how many can defend themselves against those types of odds?    

Imagine a poor person born in a poor neighborhood became rich.  They said the reason poor people stayed poor is because they were weak, whiny, couldn't "stand up" for themselves.

Fair / unfair?

Should everyone in the world be expected to stand up against those who bully them anymore than everyone be expected to be rich & successful?

Just because you've done something successfully doesn't mean more than 1% of people can enjoy or duplicate your success?

EDIT -

It is possible blaming victims of bullying for not "standing up for themselves" is the same as blaming the poor for "being too lazy to be anything other than poor".

The whole point of having governments, schools, teachers is in theory to even the playing field.  Protect those who can't defend themselves.  Keep the economy and job market fair and balanced.

Blaming victims of poverty or bullying for things only detracts from the real issue and the main problems.  It ignores how schools and teachers ignore things and how poverty has increased over the last 30 or so years due to increases in wealth and wage inequality.

There are a lot of points that could be brought up that could be somewhat self explanatory.


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## Ae (Apr 11, 2013)

I guess now he doesn't need stitches


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## Mider T (Apr 11, 2013)

Not unless he's a snitch.


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## Cygnus45 (Apr 12, 2013)

Lucaniel said:


> isn't it wonderful when you find a genuine twelve-year-old on here?
> 
> not just a rather slow individual who you pretend is twelve for rhetorical purposes, but an honest-to-god child



I'm a "child" for paying for my own self defense classes and then having to fend for myself on the streets. I don't seek trouble, but trouble finds me. I'm a taxpaying citizen and I moved out of my dad's house a while ago. I take care of my business and keep to myself. That's still not enough to please some people apparently; and haters will be haters.

A child gets worked up and envious of the exploits of others. A child makes snide comments and tries to flame-bait an otherwise calm-collective and highly intelligent poster. Get your head out your ass and fuck off because I don't have time for trash like you.



> I wonder what is more likely. That this forum is populated by the descendents on Bruce Lee, or by people trying to sound tough.



Why don't you take your fatass to a gym instead of getting worked up?


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## "Shion" (Apr 12, 2013)

Nice. ^


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## Megaharrison (Apr 12, 2013)

Thread has gotten way off-topic/derailed/shitty.


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## Blue (Apr 12, 2013)

So what's going on in this thread?


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