# Naruto 652 Discussion Thread



## Glutamminajr (Oct 16, 2013)

Predict what will happen next!



			
				Hiro said:
			
		

> Some things you should keep in mind before posting:
> 
> 1. Don't post if you can't keep on-topic.
> 2. Don't post if you're going to flame others.
> ...


----------



## Hermaeus (Oct 16, 2013)

Kakashi becomes sad. Have a disscusion with Minato. Madara use his trumph card.

btw, what happens to the moon plan? Did they need to ether destroy the tree or kill its host to stop it?


----------



## vered (Oct 16, 2013)

Madara interferes and literally takes over.


----------



## RikodouGai (Oct 16, 2013)

Infinite Tsukyomi began once the God Sword and Susanoo Sword clashed. Obtio saw the vision that he wanted to see (becoming Hokage, etc.), and Naruto and the rest of the shinobi only saw what they wanted to see: Obito's defeat.

Obito has actually won.

Kakashi, who wasn't effected by the Infinite Tsukyomi comes in at the end of the chapter and either tries to help Naruto break out of the illusion or confronts Obito on his own.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Please just let me believe.


----------



## Bane (Oct 16, 2013)

Obito is talk no jutsu'd and tries to help them take down Madara. He plays his trump card and the flower blooms. The chapter ends with the text "Is all hope lost?" The answer is yes.


----------



## Tyrannos (Oct 16, 2013)

*Chapter 652 Prediction:*  All good things

More of Obito mindmeld with Naruto and he performs the ultimate friendnojutsu.


----------



## Rosi (Oct 16, 2013)

Yet another Obitroll incoming.

Or TnJ.


----------



## Glutamminajr (Oct 16, 2013)

I'll add my prediction as well.
I think we'll see some comments about what happened and if Obito is done for or if he has other things to show.Maybe Madara will finally do something.


----------



## Trojan (Oct 16, 2013)

Please! Let the next chapter be about obito's defeat or death! Please!
just so we can move on! For God's sake!


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Oct 16, 2013)

Have tsunade tell Sakura she's got this and get her in that megazord! 

What Sakura can do is release the seal on the shroud like how juugo powered up sasukes susanoo. 

Speaking of juugo, have him make kyusanoo go juin mark 2 stage (give it wings so it can fly) 

as for the rookies, have them do their own thing in each tail like they did with the mini juubi jrs. 

Have them fend off kyusanoo (while still in the tails with katsuyu on their shoulders) against some wood branches as it transforms

Minato gives naruto the last half and kurama is whole, full of flesh and fur.

Juin kyusanoo flies high in the air and cuts the tree vertically.


----------



## Arya Stark (Oct 16, 2013)

Talk no Jutsu and KakaObi bromance, of course.


----------



## bearzerger (Oct 16, 2013)

Naruto enters Obito's psyche to free the bijuu.


----------



## Rosi (Oct 16, 2013)

We are getting color pages and cover next week, don't we? Hope it's something Obito related 
But due to it being series' anniversary, the cover will probably be just Nardo


----------



## SharkBomb 4 (Oct 16, 2013)

Obito will officially lose his shit. He got beaten by Naruto on every level, unless of course if being the JJ means you can take hits like this.


----------



## Mateush (Oct 16, 2013)

Maybe more twist regarding Zetsu as it looks like Juubi's thing. It saved Madara at the vote fight.


----------



## izanagi x izanami (Oct 16, 2013)

predict another i don't care anymore chapter....


----------



## ch1p (Oct 16, 2013)

Rookie attack is sort of successful, but Obito recovers. Some talking ensues.


----------



## RockSauron (Oct 16, 2013)

RikodouGai said:


> Infinite Tsukyomi began once the God Sword and Susanoo Sword clashed. Obtio saw the vision that he wanted to see (becoming Hokage, etc.), and Naruto and the rest of the shinobi only saw what they wanted to see: Obito's defeat.
> 
> Obito has actually won.
> 
> ...



I would like that, but Rin was dead in his fantasy so it can't be his dream world. 

Also, I predict Madara to finally make his move, having gotten Hashi's sage powers off panel and taking the Juubi from Obito while he's distracted.


----------



## Mateush (Oct 16, 2013)

I think Madara is trying to do the reverse, not taking Juubi, but more like trying to control it with his strings.

Obito's wireless telepathy further proves it.


----------



## MaruUchiha (Oct 16, 2013)

- Obito survives the slash and has a change of heart
- Madara uses "trump card" and becomes the Juubi's jinchuriki
- The flower blooms
- Shit gets real


----------



## vered (Oct 16, 2013)

Mateush said:


> I think Madara is trying to do the reverse, not taking Juubi, but more like trying to control it with his strings.
> 
> Obito's wireless telepathy further proves it.



He first needs Sage powers from Hashirama and then he would be able to take his place as final villain and hopefully do a better job at it.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Oct 16, 2013)

I predict a new villain; Humanoid Juubi, because Madara will fail to gain control. This time the villain would actually be threatening.


----------



## Mateush (Oct 16, 2013)

Yes, still I get the feeling Shinju/Juubi will do a better job, almost inevitably lol.


----------



## KingBoo (Oct 16, 2013)

*bunch of questions*

is obito going to die? is he captured? will he help naruto against the next threat and possibly die?

what if the illusion took place right before the sword hit him? if not, will the illusion still happen even if the operator was defeated? did madara have a back up plan to continue the moon eye? will the tree/juubi break out of obito?

i must say, i am pretty interested to see next week's naruto


----------



## BUUUU (Oct 16, 2013)

the preview


----------



## Rosi (Oct 16, 2013)

BUUUU said:


> the preview


Something about Mads and surprising truth, can't really understand though.


----------



## Abz (Oct 16, 2013)

Rosi said:


> Something about Mads and surprising truth, can't really understand though.



How he survived the vote? 

Errr I'm rather interested about the 'suprizing truth'


----------



## eurytus (Oct 16, 2013)

Madara tells Obito: you're using the sword wrong


----------



## vered (Oct 16, 2013)

Rosi said:


> Something about Mads and surprising truth, can't really understand though.



Very interesting.it may be just like i suspect about Madara hiding his true powers or some truths from Obito regarding the Juubis power/rinnegan/Sage stuff etc...


----------



## Harbour (Oct 16, 2013)

-Obito dying.
-Minato stands near and say something to him.
-Madara come into the game.


----------



## PsionStorm (Oct 16, 2013)

Obito will make a speech in his head about how he should have been like Naruto and his will wasn't strong enough to make the sage's sword work.  Then Madara will somehow beat Hashirama and then activate his trump card to take advantage of the weakened Obito and take control of the god tree.  The chapter will probably end at that moment.  However, the chapter after that will be infinite tsukyomi.  Who else is excited about the chapters to come?  The biggest problem with this arc was the repetitive speeches, something that hopefully won't keep happening with a villain change.  


  Madara might not even become the juubi jinchuriki.  He may simply reveal rinnnegan+susanoo abilities he's been keeping secret.  Also, it'd be kinda repetitive and pointless for Madara to suddenly become the juubi's jinchuriki.  I think during infinite tsukyomi, the main threat will be the god tree itself.


----------



## Scarlet Ammo (Oct 16, 2013)

Madara is going to step up and do something shocking for sure.

Obito is gonna reflect on life and be good or stay alive/evil


----------



## Red Raptor (Oct 16, 2013)

After one chapter of action, it's time for the next few to be filled with flashbacks.


----------



## Abz (Oct 16, 2013)

Kakashi will appear at the end of next chapter 


but chances are he won't


----------



## Mateush (Oct 16, 2013)

Cute Juubi helped Madara. I have chosen you, I will be your underling blahblah 

That's why Madara was never attacked by Juubi. It targeted Naruto lol.


----------



## Rai (Oct 16, 2013)

Madara obtains Hashirama's DNA( He got distracted)


----------



## NW (Oct 16, 2013)

Could the "shocking truth" be that Madara planned Rin's death?


----------



## Abz (Oct 16, 2013)

Fusion said:


> Could the "shocking truth" be that Madara planned Rin's death?



ULTRA MEGA PLOT TWIST!!!!


----------



## Animaeon (Oct 16, 2013)

Fusion said:


> Could the "shocking truth" be that Madara planned Rin's death?




Most likely. Madara revealing this at the exact moment that Obito is starting to have doubts about his choices would be perfect timing.


----------



## Mateush (Oct 16, 2013)

Nah if so Obito should already figured it out and doesnt give a darn about Madara.


----------



## NW (Oct 16, 2013)

*Next chapter prediction*

Obito: "Oh shit."

*Obito regenerates*

Naruto: "Oh come on... -__-"

Obito: "Hah! Trolololol!"

Madara: "Hey, Obito!"

Obito: "What?"

Madara: "I planed Rin's death! It was all me! Plus I helped found Konoha which is part of the ninja system you hate so much!"

Obito: "Really?! "

Madara: "Yup. "

Obito: "Oh. Well forget the world, I'm just gonna cast the Mugen Tsukuyomi on YOU."

Madara: "Pfft, I want to go there anyway, why should I-"

Obito: "With *no* Hashirama."

Madara: "

NOOOOOOO "

*Obito becomes FV*



Mateush said:


> Nah if so Obito should already figured out it and doesnt give a darn about Madara.


Yeah, that's one of the main reasons why I think it's unlikely. But you never know. If Kishi intends Madara to be the bigger bad, that would probably be an ideal thing to reveal, although I believe the big bad is still Obito.


----------



## Mateush (Oct 16, 2013)

Maybe. It would be bad for his fans, more rage threads :/


----------



## Shiny (Oct 16, 2013)

Lee will think about his first ninjutsu and we will have a flashback of how it was impossible to him use one,now with naruto his dream came true


----------



## Klue (Oct 16, 2013)

Obito dies, Madara takes over, the cycle of endless friendship chapters begins a new.


----------



## Lurko (Oct 16, 2013)

Mads shows Obito how to be a real villain.


----------



## GoDMasteR (Oct 16, 2013)

BUUUU said:


> the preview



*WSJ Preview:*_Madara tells about a shocking truth!And Naruto will...!?_


----------



## Jeαnne (Oct 16, 2013)

GoDMasteR said:


> *WSJ Preview:*_Madara tells about a shocking truth!And Naruto will...!?_


fuck yeaaaaaaaaaaaaa


----------



## Abz (Oct 16, 2013)

Jeαnne said:


> fuck yeaaaaaaaaaaaaa





*"what's got you excited dear...?
other than how he survived vote...or errr a draw back to obito's situation...i dunno what this 'truth' could be...any ideas?"*

*sips tea*​


----------



## Abanikochan (Oct 16, 2013)

GoDMasteR said:


> *WSJ Preview:*_Madara tells about a shocking truth!And Naruto will...!?_



I've learned not to trust these previews anymore...


----------



## Lurko (Oct 16, 2013)

Lol Mads is about to troll Obito.


----------



## T-Bag (Oct 16, 2013)

Madara: yeah i killed that bitch.. what was her name..? rin?

OBITO: NO U DID NOT!!!

Madara;


----------



## Mateush (Oct 16, 2013)

It will not be about rin. That would be way too stupid  It will be about madara or more important stories.


----------



## Kyuubi Naruto (Oct 16, 2013)

Why do people even trust the previews? 

Recently a chapter preview mentioned Gai fighting. 
Recently a chapter preview mentioned Uchiha eyes locking. 

They're never correct.


----------



## Mateush (Oct 16, 2013)

Trust in previews until proven otherwise. Madara at this moment is likely.


----------



## Gabe (Oct 16, 2013)

madara will probably tell obito rin is alive or that he killed rin with zetsus turned into mist ninja


----------



## Menacing Eyes (Oct 16, 2013)

I'm betting that Naruto and Sasuke bought themselves some time with that attack. Didn't Hashirama say that attacking Obito would stop the tree?

If such is the case I assume that if Obito takes enough damage, he won't be able to keep the God Tree separate from his body.


----------



## Deadway (Oct 17, 2013)

*Naruto 652 Prediction*
*Twisted Fate*

_Obito is falling from the sky_
Obito: *How...how did it break...*
Kurama/Hachibi: !?? 
Hachibi: Naruto broke through Hagaromo's sword? 
Kurama: It looks like it's confirmed...
_Obito lands on the floor and Naruto and Sasuke as well_
_Panel shows Naruto side by side with the Sage_
Kurama: He is his reincarnation.
Hachibi: Only the sage himself has the will power to break that sword...
Bee: That's tight yo! Looks like hes a new Naruto!
_Obito gets up and starts healing_
Obito: Was the path I chose...wrong? Could it have really went differently...no....this is how it has to end.
_The Rookies land all around him, all ready to attack_
Obito: Yes...gather around...it's time.
_The flower starts opening_
Hashirama: Shit!
Madara: What's with people and looking at flowers during a fight?
Hashirama: !?
_Madara impales Hashirama with the rod_
Madara: Your main focus should always be me, and now, it's time for my trump card.
Sasuke: Naruto, focus your sage energy into the sword, I'm impaling him.
Naruto: That won't stop him.
Sasuke: It will, it's a special sword that Itachi gave me, trust me.
Obito: Too slow.
_Obito starts raising his hands_
Naruto: He's gathering his chakra in the same way Nagato did when he used rinn tensei!
Naruto: GUYS!
Kiba: Right! Let's go!
Kiba: Fang over fang!
Obito jumps up and avoids it
Above shows Choji about to crush him
Obito blocks it with his shield, but Chojis force knocks him to the ground
Obtio: !? What's going on...
Ino: Mind transfer---
Obito fires his black jinton rod in her direction but Hinata blows it away with wind palm
Obito: !? How?
Obito: !??
Shikamaru: Shadow possession jutsu success!
Obito: Why are these attacks having any effect on me?
Tenten uses smoke bombs to blind his vision
Obito: Sharingan!
Obito: !? 
Shino's bugs are negating the sharingan
Sai's ink snakes are holding his arms in place
Obito re creates his staff and cuts through the snakes
Obito: I won't let these pathetic jutsus hinder me.
Lee comes and disarms Obito by breaking his hand
Obito: Tsk....*I wanted to save the rinnegans power...but I don't have a choice*
Obito: Shinra Tens--
Obito is stabbed by Sasuke and Naruto
Obito: !.. I...
Orochimaru: I see....the sword of Totsuka....
Obito: I see now...that cloak of chakra had sage chakra in it as well....that's how these brats were able to damage me....
Sasuke: Seal._
The sword starts sucking Obito into the bottle
_
------------
Scene switches to Hashirama and Madara
Hashirama is all mummified.
Madara has the same sage markings as Hashirama had on his face.
Hashirama: It...looks like...youre too late Madara....you won't make it there in time.
Madara: Oh how wrong you are.
-----------
Obito: *No....I won't be defeated here...after all I've went through..not here..*
Obito: NOT HERE!
_Obito breaks free from the sword_
Sasuke: !? How
Naruto: He used the rinnegans chakra absorption!
_Obito is about to weave the signs_
Obito: NO MORE BULLSHIT!
Naruto: STOP HIM!
_Everyone starts charging Obito_
_Madara makes a hand seal._
Obito: Infinite....
Naruto: NOOOOOOOO
_Right before Obito claps his hands, Madara shows up and stops him, similar to how Orochimaru stopped Sasuke from using Kirin._
Obito: !??
Naruto and Sasuke: !??
Hashirama: !? That's...the hiraishin...
Obito: Flying thunder god? When did you...
Madara: You really think I wouldn't know the jutsu that killed my brother? You underestimate me far too much Obito.
Obito: When did you get the chance to mark me?
Madara: You've always been marked, from the day I found you. Your entire right side is my chakra after all. Now then...
Madara stabs Obito through the heart with his rod.
Obito: !!
Madara: There's been a change of plans.
*Chapter end.*


----------



## Jayaraman MinatoItachi (Oct 17, 2013)

Fusion said:


> *Next chapter prediction*
> 
> Obito: "Oh shit."
> 
> ...



Lol.


----------



## Jayaraman MinatoItachi (Oct 17, 2013)

Deadway said:


> *Naruto 652 Prediction*
> *Twisted Fate*
> 
> _Obito is falling from the sky_
> ...



Nice prediction as always deadway. Better than the chapter. I loved madara getting sage mode. Him having flying thundergod. Those bolded lines i loved the most.
P.S: I liked sasuke having totsuka the most


----------



## The Faceless Man (Oct 17, 2013)

My prediction!

- Madara uses his trump card
- We learn that he was behind Rin death cuz its fucking obivous....
- Naruto and Others are socked after the tump card and ther stuff
- Obito's last words.... flashbacks blah blah....


----------



## zuul (Oct 17, 2013)

The preview is sort of exciting.


----------



## Zelavour (Oct 17, 2013)

Madara will tell Obito that he planned to kill Rin, Obito will get a second wind, does an attack against Madara but it will fail and Madara finishes off Obito.

Or instead of Madara finishing off Obito, Kakashi stops Madara's attack and saves Obito to have a talk with him.


----------



## takL (Oct 17, 2013)

my prediction
the astonishing truth=this world is actually the world of  mugentsukuyomi cast by the  rikudoh sage.


----------



## GoDMasteR (Oct 17, 2013)

I feel about that his shocking truth has to do with his fake death at VOTE.


----------



## Jad (Oct 17, 2013)

Kyuubi Naruto said:


> Why do people even trust the previews?
> 
> *Recently a chapter preview mentioned Gai fighting. *
> Recently a chapter preview mentioned Uchiha eyes locking.
> ...



This.


Gai doing nothing at all should prove these previews are jack to the shit.


----------



## Red Raptor (Oct 17, 2013)

Deadway said:


> *Naruto 652 Prediction*
> *Twisted Fate*
> 
> _Obito is falling from the sky_
> ...



This would have made so much more sense!


----------



## Azula (Oct 17, 2013)

Kakashi comes out and meets Minato 

They both go near obito 

Minato to the upper half and Kakashi to the lower half


----------



## takL (Oct 17, 2013)

GoDMasteR said:


> I feel about that his shocking truth has to do with his fake death at VOTE.



it doesnt say '_madaras_ shocking truth' does it?
plus 驚愕(≒astonishment/consternation) is stronger than just 衝撃(≒shock). 
i think its something truly unbelievable and earth-shaking for everyone.


----------



## Mateush (Oct 17, 2013)

I have this feeling we will see Sasuke use Totsuka sword and his inner feelings will trigger so the alliance can see the story about Itachi found the sword. Let's hope Kishi will make it more interesting by having Itachi communicate with his Susanoo before it granted him Totsuka sword.

Oh I like these pictures in my head


----------



## Big Bob (Oct 17, 2013)

Madara is (hopefully) going to make things more interesting with this "shocking truth".


----------



## GoDMasteR (Oct 17, 2013)

takL said:


> it doesnt say '_madaras_ shocking truth' does it?
> plus 驚愕(≒astonishment/consternation) is stronger than just 衝撃(≒shock).
> i think its something truly unbelievable and earth-shaking for everyone.



a kinda sort of scaremongering, you mean? That's interesting... I wonder what's about...unless the editor is just teasing us


----------



## takL (Oct 17, 2013)

GoDMasteR said:


> a kinda sort of scaremongering, you mean? That's interesting... I wonder what's about...unless the editor is just teasing us



cant wait for naruto cover of the issue and the leadoff colour pages!


----------



## Abz (Oct 17, 2013)

takL said:


> my prediction
> the astonishing truth=this world is actually the world of  mugentsukuyomi cast by the  rikudoh sage.





takL said:


> it doesnt say '_madaras_ shocking truth' does it?
> plus 驚愕(≒astonishment/consternation) is stronger than just 衝撃(≒shock).
> i think its something truly unbelievable and earth-shaking for everyone.



MATRIX here we come.....

Dundun duuuuuuuun

And kamui turns out to be the shattered real world... 

What a horrible true


----------



## vered (Oct 17, 2013)

takL said:


> my prediction
> the astonishing truth=this world is actually the world of  mugentsukuyomi cast by the  rikudoh sage.



most likely this shocking revelation has something to do with RS/Juubi/God tree/Rinnegan or and his own plan.
but what you suggests seems to much of a twist to actually happen.


----------



## takL (Oct 17, 2013)

"rikudoh sage created everything"said obito to konan. "banbutsu sozoh" means "the Creation".  
he even created the moon.
and yet, before rikudoh there had been people, nations and wars.  

if anyone ever used mugentukuyomi, it has to be the sage.


----------



## The Faceless Man (Oct 17, 2013)

takL said:


> "rikudoh sage created everything"said obito to konan. "banbutsu sozoh" means "the Creation".
> he even created the moon.
> and yet, before rikudoh there had been people, nations and wars.
> 
> if anyone ever used mugentukuyomi, it has to be the sage.



i think it means the sage created alot of stuff the shinobi world has

before the sage the wars where people going medieval with pikes...


----------



## Mateush (Oct 17, 2013)

takL said:


> "rikudoh sage created everything"said obito to konan. "banbutsu sozoh" means "the Creation".
> he even created the moon.
> and yet, before rikudoh there had been people, nations and wars.
> 
> if anyone ever used mugentukuyomi, it has to be the sage.



Actually if you forgot I wrote a theory about mugen tsukuyomi was a theoretical plan created by Hagoromo. It seems better than just replacing another mugen tsukuyomi with it.


----------



## Abz (Oct 17, 2013)

hypothetical, mind racing boom theory thing....

you do realisze how the 'matrix theory' would single-handedly destroy this manga...as we know it...

a bunch of normal people...of one which was granted power of gods...made the world sleep to stop the wars the world was in....

The world we know as the 'narutoverse' the world created from proir individual. And granted others powers of gods...hoping to be used in peace..not warfare.....but that didn't change anything....

how fucking twisted the manga would have got...

they have been sleeping all a long 

Imagine if what madara wants is to 'wake it up'

now it's all about the one he can grow powerful enough to be the largest and loudest alarm-clock since the RS


----------



## Trojan (Oct 17, 2013)

I wonder if that review will come to pass. It more likely wont.

I guess we will have a lot of blah blah blah, and flashbacks, since obito has already been defeated
and if I'm lucky perhaps I will see his death. <<< very unlikely though.


----------



## eurytus (Oct 17, 2013)

Ultimate Bijuu said:


> i think it means the sage created alot of stuff the shinobi world has
> 
> before the sage the wars where people going medieval with pikes...



He created the freaking moon, anything is possible


----------



## takL (Oct 17, 2013)

since limited tukuyomi creates a world reflecting the desires of the targets,
unlimited tukuyomi creates a world reflecting the desires of the caster perhaps?


----------



## Gabe (Oct 17, 2013)

It would be interesting if the current naruto world is already in the genjutsu world. That RS mom or him already used the MEP and before RS died he wanted to end it but failed.


----------



## Xeros (Oct 17, 2013)

Obito is injured, and the next chapter switches to Kabuto's hideout scene.

Man I wish he'd just come back. Epic Panel of snakes


----------



## DeK3iDE (Oct 17, 2013)

hopefully the situation on Madara and Hashirama's end actually get the development it should have gotten already in the next chapter. Knowing Kishimoto though, it's more than likely going to be another chapter dedicated to the almighty power of friendship


----------



## Red Raptor (Oct 17, 2013)

Oh god yes. Let Kabuto return. Let Orochimaru regain his villainy. Let there be treachery!

Like in... TRUE treachery.


----------



## Matt-Uchiha (Oct 18, 2013)

A lot of commenting on Obito losing. He's going batshit insane as he falls to the ground as he faps over his hatred. Fusion 9 Tails mode ends with Sasuke and Naruto in their base forms out of Chakra. Madara summons the giant flower with the Hashirama clone and Yamato. He explains that it's the source of Zetsu and used to be fed Chakra from the Gedo Statue and it's his trump card. He uses it to absorb Hashirama in his Sage Mode and it boosts the power of his Mokuton and the flower merges with the Shinju, giving Madara control.


----------



## Mofo (Oct 18, 2013)

I don't see Obito dying so fast, he's getting back up.


----------



## Jeαnne (Oct 18, 2013)

takL said:


> since limited tukuyomi creates a world reflecting the desires of the targets,
> unlimited tukuyomi creates a world reflecting the desires of the caster perhaps?


you know...there is a "will" thing about all these powers. Even Obito's kamui was born from will(to escape from the rock and survive, his will drove him to create something that would allow him to pass through things), Sasuke's own MS skills also seemed to be born from will, when he wished to protect taka and burn Hachibi, and then when he wished to save karin.

I noticed how nunoboko could be the origin of Madara's black stick too. He did point out that it contained his will, and that Obito should use it when using the Rikudou jutsu. They are far too similar, they seem to be made of the same thing and hold the same properties.


----------



## Csdabest (Oct 18, 2013)

Obito uses Izanagi. Sasuke counters with Izanami. Kakashi says he can feel what Obito is failing and he is having a change of hearts. Madara thanks the alliance for making obito so vulnerable. The alliance must now protect obito from Madara


----------



## PikaCheeka (Oct 19, 2013)

GoDMasteR said:


> *WSJ Preview:*_Madara tells about a shocking truth!And Naruto will...!?_



But who does he tell it to? Hashirama? He's nowhere near anyone else.

Anyway this is probably a couple of weeks away. These previews are so random.


----------



## NarutoShion4ever (Oct 19, 2013)

Minato really did give Yin Kurama to Naruto.


Naruto, Yang Kurama, Yin Kurama and Sasuke formed KyuubiSusanoo


The collaboration jutsu is ended...


and Sasuke mind controls Yin Kurama and steals it from Naruto.




takL said:


> my prediction
> the astonishing truth=this world is actually the world of  mugentsukuyomi cast by the  rikudoh sage.




So...each generation 2 ninja are chosen who can end the Izanami cycle of Mugen Tsukiyomi? 




Abz said:


> MATRIX here we come.....
> 
> Dundun duuuuuuuun
> 
> ...




So...Wall-E has turned the trash into neat little boxes and that why Kamui Dimension looks like that? 




Matt-Uchiha said:


> A lot of commenting on Obito losing. He's going batshit insane as he falls to the ground as he faps over his hatred. Fusion 9 Tails mode ends with Sasuke and Naruto in their base forms out of Chakra. Madara summons the giant flower with the Hashirama clone and Yamato. He explains that it's the source of Zetsu and used to be fed Chakra from the Gedo Statue and it's his trump card. He uses it to absorb Hashirama in his Sage Mode and it boosts the power of his Mokuton and the flower merges with the Shinju, giving Madara control.




Well, Madara switching from trying to control Obito to trying to control the Tree seems logical. Nice idea about using the flower that has Yamato and Hashirama clone, though. I like it.


----------



## takL (Oct 19, 2013)

^exciting innit?



PikaCheeka said:


> But who does he tell it to? Hashirama? He's nowhere near anyone else.





			
				chap 646 said:
			
		

> Hash: you mean the power relying on this Shin Ju _again_, the grand illusion...is what you call 'the dream further beyond'!?
> Maddy:......yeah...save a slight difference that...
> ...the one to execute it(=mugentukuyomi) is me.



doesnt he sound like he wouldnt be the first to cast mugentukuyomi?

while everyone was busy fighting with obito or the tree,  maddy was telling the rest of the story to hash and hashs clone tells it to everyone via inos shindenshin again.


----------



## The Faceless Man (Oct 19, 2013)

takL said:


> ^exciting innit?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



nope it sounds like madara version of mungen tsukuyomi will not be the same as obitos version , maybe madara has his own touch on this jutsu and not the story he told to obito.


----------



## takL (Oct 19, 2013)

hash "the power relying on this Shin Ju* AGAIN*, the grand illusion..."
maddy "yep　save..."


----------



## Jeαnne (Oct 19, 2013)

PikaCheeka said:


> But who does he tell it to? Hashirama? He's nowhere near anyone else.
> 
> Anyway this is probably a couple of weeks away. These previews are so random.


i dont know...last week the preview cycle was broken


----------



## zuul (Oct 19, 2013)

After the power of friendship, the power of love will come into play.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 19, 2013)

I think the chapters could be delayed this week. There's a HUGE typhoon, Typhoon Francisco, which has set its sights on Japan.


----------



## Jeαnne (Oct 19, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> I think the chapters could be delayed this week. There's a HUGE typhoon, Typhoon Francisco, which has set its sights on Japan.


oh noes ....


----------



## Abz (Oct 19, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> I think the chapters could be delayed this week. There's a HUGE typhoon, Typhoon Francisco, which has set its sights on Japan.





Jeαnne said:


> oh noes ....



ye i just looked it up.....does not look good...but forecasters predict that it'll avoid tokyo ...just....and affect the southern half or the country....

​


----------



## PikaCheeka (Oct 19, 2013)

takL said:


> doesnt he sound like he wouldnt be the first to cast mugentukuyomi?
> 
> while everyone was busy fighting with obito or the tree,  maddy was telling the rest of the story to hash and hashs clone tells it to everyone via inos shindenshin again.



As far as we know, Hashirama never told the Alliance that Madara planned to take over. Either he thinks he can handle Madara himself or there are personal reasons. So I'd be surprised if he told everyone anything else Madara might say to him if it's about himself.

Though if he's like "Hey you know that that tree right there is actually just an illusion, right? " then I guess Hashi would tell. 



Jeαnne said:


> i dont know...last week the preview cycle was broken



But we have also had a ton of previews that either never appeared, or appeared a month later.


----------



## takL (Oct 20, 2013)

PikaCheeka said:


> As far as we know, Hashirama never told the Alliance that Madara planned to take over. Either he thinks he can handle Madara himself or there are personal reasons. So I'd be surprised if he told everyone anything else Madara might say to him if it's about himself.
> 
> Though if he's like "Hey you know that that tree right there is actually just an illusion, right? " then I guess Hashi would tell.




Maddy 'hashirama. to tell the truth ima gay'
Hash 'whoaaaaaa!!!!!#@&+%$:~!!!'
Everybody 'we knew that"

Maddy 'Tobi is Obito'
Naruto 'ehhhhh! really?'
Everybody '.....old news, you 2'

"madara tells the startling truth!! what Naruto will do then!?"
it has to be something that throws everyone into consternation.


----------



## flabed8 (Oct 20, 2013)

Obito: Why?
Naruto: Because i want to be Hokage.
-Madara absorbs Obito.
Obito: AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!
Naruto: Stop!
Madara: Never!
-Madara becomes the Rikudou Sennin.


----------



## SharkBomb 4 (Oct 20, 2013)

I don't think Madara's truth will have anything to do with Rin. He's not stupid enough to bank everything on something as dumb as a single trigger (too many variables involved), no, Madara would make damn well sure Obito would lose it with something certain.



Look how absolutely certain he was here. This man clearly had some sort of plan, but I can tell you had nothing to do with Rin. Here's a few reasons.

1) It's a shaky and convoluted possibility that isn't really certain.

2) He seemed surprised at how quickly Obito returned and seemed rather dismissive about why he returned and the details surrounding it. It was more about the sureness of it all.

3) Obito's return is part of his point. It's the confidence that the world will always find a way to make your life and sacrifices tragic and pointless. It wasn't that he knew Rin and Kakashi would make him return, it's that he knew the world and a little extra help would have him return.

And now my theory on Madara's actual plan:
I believe he was so sure about Obito's return because he amped his emotions and imposed his will with the rods he stuck in him.



Those things seem to pop up during moments of extreme emotion judging from what happened with Nagato. Perhaps they were set to emerge during a time where Obito would face tragedy, something Madara was sure of, and perhaps this would help push him over the edge and make him pick the right choice. After all, his words were clearly having an effect on Obito and this little push would help him join his cause and realize what part of him knew already.


----------



## Mateush (Oct 20, 2013)

^
Very interesting, certainly possible. But I still doubt it because Madara admitted he failed and kinda said Obito reminds about himself. Now he is trying to get senjutsu, meaning he has to get stronger in order to do whatever he wants with Obito.


----------



## SharkBomb 4 (Oct 20, 2013)

Mateush said:


> ^
> Very interesting, certainly possible. But I still doubt it because Madara admitted he failed and kinda said Obito reminds about himself. Now he is trying to get senjutsu, meaning he has to get stronger in order to do whatever he wants with Obito.



True, when he tried to use the black rods for control it failed for some reason, but I don't think they were controlling Obito. I just believed that they amplified his negative emotions and exploited his darkside. I don't think Kishi drew those black rods popping out of Obito when he saw Kakashi killing Rin for no reason, especially after we saw the exact same thing happen to Nagato when he killed Yahiko. They definitely have SOMETHING to do with emotions.

The reason they failed to control him is because Obito may have found a way to analyze the rods and control them. Remember, he can form them on his own, and Obito did read the Uchiha stone monument. It has also been confirmed that he possesses knowledge that the tablet can only fully be read with the rinnegan meaning he likely knows of all of its contents. There are two sides to this story that we are just about to get into very soon.


----------



## NarutoShion4ever (Oct 20, 2013)

SharkBomb 4 said:


> I don't think Madara's truth will have anything to do with Rin. He's not stupid enough to bank everything on something as dumb as a single trigger (too many variables involved), no, Madara would make damn well sure Obito would lose it with something certain.
> 
> 
> 
> ...






SharkBomb 4 said:


> *True, when he tried to use the black rods for control it failed for some reason, but I don't think they were controlling Obito. I just believed that they amplified his negative emotions and exploited his darkside. I don't think Kishi drew those black rods popping out of Obito when he saw Kakashi killing Rin for no reason, especially after we saw the exact same thing happen to Nagato when he killed Yahiko. They definitely have SOMETHING to do with emotions.*
> 
> The reason they failed to control him is because Obito may have found a way to analyze the rods and control them. Remember, he can form them on his own, and Obito did read the Uchiha stone monument. It has also been confirmed that he possesses knowledge that the tablet can only fully be read with the rinnegan meaning he likely knows of all of its contents. There are two sides to this story that we are just about to get into very soon.




The problem is that Nagato set a precedent, so it makes sense that Obito was just as manipulated as Nagato was. At the same time, Obito could have just been convinced that the world would break Nagato, similar to Madara being convinced that the world would break Obito. Because there is no proof that Obito had anything to do with Danzo and Hanzo teaming up. Although it wouldn't be surprising if Madara had implanted Kamui into a younger Obito (and maybe did something similar to a few other Uchiha kids) just to enlarge the chances of getting a helper.

I've become convinced that Obito actually did die, but that Madara revived him. That makes more sense than the "falling in a cave" BS. But I also think that is the extent of Madara's manipulations.

You're right that Rin's death could have been bad luck for Obito and good luck for Madara, but its timing remains suspicious.

Those rods could be a source of manipulation, but it would seem that Obito beat those when Madara tried to force Obito to revive himself. Ultimately it would be odd to build Obito up as a Naruto-who-lost-faith only to reveal that Obito was manipulated from the very start. But those rods do remain mysterious. It might be that those rods respond to hatred or emotions in general, like mokuton reacted to the life force of Kurama's yang chakra. We'll see where Kishimoto will take it eventually.

Good posts though.


----------



## SharkBomb 4 (Oct 20, 2013)

NarutoShion4ever said:


> The problem is that Nagato set a precedent, so it makes sense that Obito was just as manipulated as Nagato was. At the same time, Obito could have just been convinced that the world would break Nagato, similar to Madara being convinced that the world would break Obito. Because there is no proof that Obito had anything to do with Danzo and Hanzo teaming up. Although it wouldn't be surprising if Madara had implanted Kamui into a younger Obito (and maybe did something similar to a few other Uchiha kids) just to enlarge the chances of getting a helper.
> 
> I've become convinced that Obito actually did die, but that Madara revived him. That makes more sense than the "falling in a cave" BS. But I also think that is the extent of Madara's manipulations.
> 
> ...



Again, I don't believe Obito was controlled into anything. His and Naruto's comparison was already imperfect to begin with because the sharingan itself already bears the curse of hatred, something Naruto never had to deal with. However, think of it this way:

The reason Obito is losing it with Naruto right now is he's starting to realize there is such a thing as being "unbreakable". He's made Naruto go through so much yet he still perseveres because he always leans on his friends. Obito on the other hand believed that such a thing was not possible while at the same time constantly searching for it. He recently showed that Madara's rods don't have an effect on him, so perhaps he is beginning to realize that that despite what the ninja world has done, the true reason he became what he was is because he just gave up and is not enduring like Naruto is and that the true solution to the world's problems doesn't have to be a dream world because people have already shown a method for not falling into darkness. Obito is doing all this because he thinks that people will all inevitably fall into darkness one day because of the way the ninja system works, but now he's just starting to see that the darkness can be dealt with through bonds instead. The source can also be the solution.

Madara amping up his emotions is just a theory I have on his "shocking" reveal, and his trump card that's clearly going to involve those same black rods. I don't see it as Madara revealing that he manipulated Obito as a child, because that has already been established before. Madara was bending Obito to his purposes when he was a kid, my theory on the black rods doesn't change that. All that doesn't matter now because Obito has essentially hijacked Madara's plan, resisted his control and is the Juubi's Jinchuriki. Things have obviously changed from before and Obito has a full understanding on his relationship with Madara given his interactions with him. Nagato was being used from the start for a plan he had no knowledge of, Obito on the other hand is accomplishing said plan and has phazed out the original architect after resisting his control. Their relationships are completely different.

Anyways, this is just a ton of theory crafting, we'll just see how things unfold in the manga.

EDIT: As for how Obito manipulated Nagato, I believe it was very similar to what Madara originally did to Obito. Obito had 100% faith that the world would change Nagato. He had no part in Danzou/Hanzou's plan, he just knew something tragic would happen to Nagato because that's the way the ninja world works. My theory is that the black rods that were in Nagato were probably left by Madara when he somehow had his eyes implanted in him. This was so that when Obito was sent to manipulate him, the amped emotions he felt when tragedy would inevitably hit him would make him easier to control.


----------



## Jeαnne (Oct 20, 2013)

takL said:


> Maddy 'hashirama. to tell the truth ima gay'
> Hash 'whoaaaaaa!!!!!#@&+%$:~!!!'
> Everybody 'we knew that"
> 
> ...


i can only think of two things.

it will be either an "I was behind everything" speech, or he will reveal what is written in the tablet.


----------



## CuteJuubi (Oct 20, 2013)

To those who said that Madara's revelation is that the world was already under Mugen Tsukuyomi, I think that's rather impossible, Nanuboko was used to create the world (recreate and refashion the world) so why would the Sage use it if the world was already under MT?


----------



## BeyondTwoSouls (Oct 20, 2013)

i have a small question, sorry for off topic.

in the chapters than obito became the juubis jinchuuriki, before he gained complete control, was that "person" the juubi himself or obito ?
i mean if i am looking back now this "one" seemed pretty more "dangerous". he tried to kill some of the characters in an "instant" and wasnt much talking like the current jinchuuriki obito.

see here:

*Spoiler*: __ 












please correct me if i am wrong.

/sorry for my bad english i am from germany


----------



## takL (Oct 20, 2013)

CuteJuubi said:


> To those who said that Madara's revelation is that the world was already under Mugen Tsukuyomi, I think that's rather impossible, Nanuboko was used to create the world (recreate and refashion the world) so why would the Sage use it if the world was already under MT?



??? i dont get ur q. 
there had been a world with people, nations and wars even before the sage. 
my supposion is that the world wasnt great, with the civillians always suffering from the wars  that the sage used mugen tsukuyomi to write it off and to create a new one. then the world with shinobi started. 
however this world the sage created isnt so great either. shinobi got the short end for the egos of mankind and maddy couldnt stand it. so he decided to save shinobis and mankind forever using mugentukuyomi again.
"theres a slight difference (to the last mugentukuyomi)...(this time) the one who executes it is me!"


----------



## PikaCheeka (Oct 20, 2013)

takL said:


> Maddy 'hashirama. to tell the truth ima gay'
> Hash 'whoaaaaaa!!!!!#@&+%$:~!!!'
> Everybody 'we knew that"
> 
> ...



Does it though?

It seems like one third to one half of all previews end in "What will Naruto do???" or "Naruto does????" whether or not the first sentence of the preview has anything to do with him.


But  Hashi knows about Madara!


----------



## takL (Oct 20, 2013)

BeyondTwoSouls said:


> i have a small question, sorry for off topic.
> 
> in the chapters than obito became the juubis jinchuuriki, before he gained complete control, was that "person" the juubi himself or obito ?
> i mean if i am looking back now this "one" seemed pretty more "dangerous". he tried to kill some of the characters in an "instant" and wasnt much talking like the current jinchuuriki obito.
> ...



we cant say who it was but it wasnt really obito for sure.


----------



## CuteJuubi (Oct 20, 2013)

takL said:


> ??? i dont get ur q.
> there had been a world with people, nations and wars even before the sage.
> my supposion is that the world wasnt great, with the civillians always suffering from the wars  that the sage used mugen tsukuyomi to write it off and to create a new one. then the world with shinobi started.
> however this world the sage created isnt so great either. shinobi got the short end for the egos of mankind and maddy couldnt stand it. so he decided to save shinobis and mankind forever using mugentukuyomi again.
> "theres a slight difference (to the last mugentukuyomi)...(this time) the one who executes it is me!"



But why didn't the Sage create a perfect world back then? if he casted MT then why allow misery to exists, since if he already recreated the world with MT, why didn't he create it perfectly? and if MT is indeed morally sound then why are the protagonists opposing it?  

Also, Mugen Tsukuyomi is just a genjutsu, why is there  a production of new souls and new life after it was cast? wouldn't that make the succeeding generations a mere illusion and not truly existing?

Also why did RS use Banbutsu Sozo to create the Bijuus?  wouldn't the power of MT be able to accomplish this since it would be a world of the caster's own shaping? 

Also, if Nanuboko was used to reshape the world then there wouldn't have been any purpose of using Nanuboko since MT itself would have been sufficient to recreate it.


----------



## BeyondTwoSouls (Oct 20, 2013)

CuteJuubi said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## CuteJuubi (Oct 20, 2013)

I am merely pointing out that it raises more questions than answers if indeed the world is already under MT casted aeons ago by Rikudou, it is highly problematic from a plot perspective so I find it rather implausible.



takL said:


> we cant say who it was but it wasnt really obito for sure.



That is why I believe the Shinju/Juubi is the final antagonist of the series, because of the obscurity of this plot point can only be clarified from the perspective of the character who experienced it himself: Juubi 

The Alliance's current actions will all come to nothing because the Shinju's Flower has already began to bloom:



The Kanji sfx is "Peels" 

Plot necessitates the flower to bloom (it would be very anti-climactic if it does not)  so no matter what Naruto, Sasuke and the Alliance does it will bloom. The question is: what's actually inside it, is truly only the Eye like Madara said? 

Remember, that if Inf. Tsukuyomi is cast, it will be pretty much game over for the Alliance, regardless of who casts it (Obito or Madara) 

Another thing, is that if Mugen Tsukuyomi is successful, it will leave a glaring plot hole: 


*Spoiler*: __ 








Remember that there really isn't an exposition on what, how or why the Juubi saw RS in Naruto, it will be a glaring omission if this wasn't expounded upon, so for me, the only way for this to be clarified is if the Shinju assumes an intelligent form when inside the flower when it blooms.


----------



## BeyondTwoSouls (Oct 20, 2013)

CuteJuubi said:


> I am merely pointing out that it raises more questions than answers if indeed the world is already under MT casted aeons ago by Rikudou, it is highly problematic from a plot perspective so I find it rather implausible.



yes, i am in the same opinion. i too dont believe the theory abouta MT casted by Rikudou.


----------



## CuteJuubi (Oct 20, 2013)

BeyondTwoSouls said:


> yes, i am in the same opinion. i too dont believe the theory abouta MT casted by Rikudou.



We also have to take into consideration the Moon, it wasn't in existence back then, which implies that Madara formulated the Moon's Eye Plan for Mugen Tsukuyomi only after the events of RS and Juubi. And we have to think two steps ahead: if indeed the world was already under MT casted by RS then what would Naruto and the Shinobis do? break the spell? then what? live in the "real" world just like before only this time it's real and not genjutsu? or continue to live in the dream world, albeit an imperfect one? that's merely raising the cookie jar one shelf higher which is a terrible finality and resolution to the series.


----------



## BeyondTwoSouls (Oct 20, 2013)

i really interessted, what kind of "shocking truth" madara will probably tell us (if the preview is right).
and what will happen to obito ? is he complete TnJ ? will he loose as a consequence to this the power to repress the juubi and will "it" take over (like probably the chapters before obito gained control over the 10tails ? )
or will madara become the next juubis jinchuuriki ? (against this speaks, that he hasnt really a "bond" with naruto. i mean he is the person behind all of this, but he is more a antagonist to hashirama. mads didnt even care about naruto or sasuke)

i also have another question. naruto has now 7 (or 8) chakra "parts" of the other bijuus, if the gains the missing 2 (or 1) will he become a complete reincarnation of the So6P or "only" of the younger brother ?
the second one would make more sence if there will be a fight with sasuke, otherwise i dont know how sasuke could keep up with naruto...


----------



## CuteJuubi (Oct 20, 2013)

BeyondTwoSouls said:


> i really interessted, what kind of "shocking truth" madara will probably tell us (if the preview is right).
> and what will happen to obito ? is he complete TnJ ? will he loose as a consequence to this the power to repress the juubi and will "it" take over (like probably the chapters before obito gained control over the 10tails ? )
> 
> i also have another question. naruto has now 7 (or 8) chakra "parts" of the other bijuus, if the gains the missing 2 (or 1) will he become a complete reincarnation of the So6P or "only" of the younger brother ?
> the second one would make more sence if there will be a fight with sasuke, otherwise i dont know how sasuke could keep up with naruto...



Naruto, is Rikudou's reincarnation, the Uchiha and Senju trace their ancestry from the Juubi itself: since the Elder and Younger Sons of Rikudou were  creations from the Juubi's Yin and Yang essence with Banbutsu Sozo much like the Bijuus The Uchiha and Senju are the Yin and Yang of the Juubi 

We must look beneath the underneath: 

Viz:



The Bijuus are but one example

So what were the other creations with Banbutsu Sozo?

This:



The Elder Son (Juubi's Yin) The Younger Son (Juubi's Yang) 

The Otsutsuki and Uzumaki Bloodline are one and the same, the surname changed, the bloodline remains the same, making Naruto and the Uzumakis the only true bloodline of Hagoromo, the Uchihas and Senjus are from the Juubi. The Uzumakis is Rikudou's only bloodline, that is why Hagoromo reincarnated to an Uzumaki and not an Uchiha or Senju.


----------



## takL (Oct 20, 2013)

CuteJuubi said:


> But why didn't the Sage create a perfect world back then? if he casted MT then why allow misery to exists, since if he already recreated the world with MT, why didn't he create it perfectly? and if MT is indeed morally sound then why are the protagonists opposing it?
> 
> Also, Mugen Tsukuyomi is just a genjutsu, why is there be a production of new souls and new life after it was cast? wouldn't that make the succeeding generations a mere illusion and not truly existing?
> 
> ...



what is nanuboko? its nunoboko.
mugentsukuyomi isnt fake. it has to be also onmyoton.
banbutsu sozo means the Creation. what it creates depends on the user.
the sage didnt want to remove individualities from humanbeings because thatd stop them from growing.


----------



## BeyondTwoSouls (Oct 20, 2013)

CuteJuubi said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



lol, i am reading here for about 1 year and you are still trying to explain this naruto = So6P reincarnation is a consequence of his bloodline :rofl

no seriously:
i know this thing about ying and yang, older and younger brother etc...
your theory could be possible, but we still need proof for this.

i think too, that naruto is the reincarnation of the so6p, but the thing which speeks against this is, how should than sasuke catch up to naruto ? i mean there COULD be a fight between them. but if naruto is the Rikudou V2, how should this work ?


----------



## CuteJuubi (Oct 20, 2013)

takL said:


> what is nanuboko? its nunoboko.
> mugentsukuyomi isnt fake. it *has to be* also onmyoton.
> banbutsu sozo means the Creation. what it creates depends on the user.
> the sage didnt want to remove individualities from humanbeings because thatd stop them from growing.



Very problematic from a plot perspective esp. formulating its resolution if indeed this was the case, which most probably isn't, also it's heavily implied based on Obito's vitriolic babbling that the terrible reality they live in is the real world, and not some imperfect refashioning caused by Genjutsu (And yes Mugen Tsukuyomi is Genjutsu, it is still Genjutsu only amplified to the nth power) Applying Occam's Razor: the world they live in is reality itself, nothing more, nothing less.


----------



## takL (Oct 20, 2013)

since when a mugen tsukiyomi world cant be the real world?
obito's already stated that rikudoh sage created everything under the sun out of nothing.


----------



## CuteJuubi (Oct 20, 2013)

takL said:


> since when a mugen tsukiyomi world cant be the real world?.



It is a Super Genjutsu that's why the antagonists are planning to take everyone into  the "dream world" even Kishimoto's "preview" of MugenTsukuyomi  in Road To Ninja's Limited Tsukuyomi is still a Genjutsu, not reality warping.


----------



## takL (Oct 20, 2013)

CuteJuubi said:


> It is a Super Genjutsu that's why the antagonists are planning to take everyone into  the "dream world" even Kishimoto's "preview" of MugenTsukuyomi  in Road To Ninja's Limited Tsukuyomi is still a Genjutsu, not reality warping.



and the sage is an uzumaki?

if u read the manga u should know genjutus in the manga doesnt always stay a dream but comes true.


----------



## CuteJuubi (Oct 20, 2013)

takL said:


> and the sage is an uzumaki?
> 
> if u read the manga u should know genjutus in the manga doesnt always stay a dream but comes true.



Now you are being condescending, there is no need to be snide, show me a page or panel that says that Mugen Tsukuyomi was meant to *warp/alter* reality and not an Illusory World created with Genjutsu? If you cannot show me anything then you are merely conjecturing, which in truth is heavily contradicted 
by the Manga: 



It's a Genjutsu, not reality alteration. This discussion is finished.


----------



## takL (Oct 20, 2013)

didnt i say its my suppossion in the first place?

well its rather an educated guess tho. i guess im starting a thread about this for lols.

i might add that メリメリ is 'ripp ripp'/crakes.


----------



## Revolution (Oct 20, 2013)

It begs the question, why did Obito want Sasuke for the Gedo Mazo, only to try to blow his head off when he finally gets there?  The plan was for Madara, not Sasuke (from what we know so far)


----------



## T-Bag (Oct 20, 2013)

i have a feeling madara is gonna reveal something shocking....


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Oct 21, 2013)

Was it ever explain why Madara gave his rinnegan to Nagato?


----------



## The Faceless Man (Oct 21, 2013)

I predict the plot moveing....also...

- Madara does something because his missing for some chapters ( Trump card ? )
- Obito goes to say his goodbyes maybe even kakashi comes and says something ( Its going to suck badly )
- Naruto and Sasuke conversation and plan.... ( I don't care at this point )
- The alliance will be surprised in a bad way ( yes yes )

PS. More info on the the sword of the sage of six paths.... it was hyped as fuck will get more on how it works


----------



## NW (Oct 21, 2013)

*Chapter 562*: Mugen Tsukuyomi

Madara: "Hey Obito!"

Obito: "?!"

*Madara stars beating the shit out of him with senjutsu*

Madara: "I'm going to steal the Juubi!"

Obito: "oh yeah?!"

Madara: "By the way, I planned Rin's death!"

Obito: "I already knew that. "

Madara: "WHAT?! FUUUUUUUUUUUUU- "

*Obito casts Mugen tsukuyomi*

Obito: ""





BeyondTwoSouls said:


> i have a small question, sorry for off topic.
> 
> in the chapters than obito became the juubis jinchuuriki, before he gained complete control, was that "person" the juubi himself or obito ?
> i mean if i am looking back now this "one" seemed pretty more "dangerous". he tried to kill some of the characters in an "instant" and wasnt much talking like the current jinchuuriki obito.
> ...


That was confirmed to be Obito, but the Juubi's power erased his memories of himself.


----------



## T-Bag (Oct 21, 2013)

Bruce Wayne said:


> Was it ever explain why Madara gave his rinnegan to Nagato?



So he can revive him? lol


----------



## RockSauron (Oct 21, 2013)

Bruce Wayne said:


> Was it ever explain why Madara gave his rinnegan to Nagato?



So he could be revived. It's been said multiple times 

Anyway, I predict this chapter to be the end of Obito as a major villain and it to end with Madara taking control on the last page. It's about time I'd think to move on, after all.


----------



## TH4N4T0S (Oct 21, 2013)

CuteJuubi said:


> It's a Genjutsu, not reality alteration. This discussion is finished.


It should be noted that genjutsu and reality alteration aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, as proven by the effects of Izanagi, a genjutsu that can turn reality into illusion.

Although it seems likely that Infinite Tsukuyomi wouldn't directly modify reality (because the ordinary Tsukuyomi doesn't), the opposite remains possible. Who knows? It might be akin to literally sending the world into a parallel universe. After all, as takL suggests, a Tsukuyomi powered by the God Tree, or an onmyoton Tsukuyomi, could be far stronger and more special than a plain Tsukuyomi with a global AoE.

Besides, it would make sense if the Infinite Tsukuyomi was virtually inescapable and immediately effective on a global scale. If its effect was merely to cast the ordinary Tsukuyomi upon those who see the moon, then it would be fairly easy to avoid. Just don't look at the moon, evacuate to a place where it can't be seen, or block your vision until tomorrow, when the moon is no longer visible.

I think there has to be something especially powerful about it--something that will prevent the countless non-participants of the war and the people on the other side of the planet from escaping.


----------



## Klue (Oct 21, 2013)

Obito bounces back with epic force, he enter his final flashback, Madara begins his take over, or the MEP officially is set.

Choose your poison.


----------



## Mariko (Oct 21, 2013)

Klue said:


> Obito bounces back with epic force, he enter his final flashback, Madara begins his take over, or the MEP officially is set.
> 
> Choose your poison.



Friendship wins - Obito changes its mind and face Hashirama - The alliance cut the tree - Itachi

Choose your medecine.


----------



## Kisame3rd14 (Oct 21, 2013)

Please enter Madara, so people can actually die.


----------



## Klue (Oct 21, 2013)

CuteJuubi said:


> The Otsutsuki and Uzumaki Bloodline are one and the same, the surname changed, the bloodline remains the same, making Naruto and the Uzumakis the only true bloodline of Hagoromo, the Uchihas and Senjus are from the Juubi. The Uzumakis is Rikudou's only bloodline, that is why Hagoromo reincarnated to an Uzumaki and not an Uchiha or Senju.



Fuck am I reading? 

Hagoromo obtained chakra (Uchiha/Senju powers) as a consequence of his mother eating the fruit; regardless of whether or not he created his sons with Juubi chakra, in no way explains why the Uzumaki do not possess Uchiha powers, and only Senju powers.

Oh wait, the Uzumaki were stated to be relatives of the Senju half - Nagato was even called a descendant of the Senju.



CuteJuubi said:


> Naruto, is Rikudou's reincarnation, the Uchiha and Senju trace their ancestry from the Juubi itself: since the Elder and Younger Sons of Rikudou were  creations from the Juubi's Yin and Yang essence with Banbutsu Sozo much like the Bijuus The Uchiha and Senju are the Yin and Yang of the Juubi
> 
> We must look beneath the underneath:
> 
> Viz:



Another detail that boggles my mind.

You link a page, highlighting the portion of text you believe supports your argument, yet so easily pass over details that don't.

It goes on to say, that Rikudou possessed the *BLOOD* and powers of both.

Are you sure he created them with Juubi's chakra?


----------



## Jad (Oct 21, 2013)

*Prediction:*

Gai and Hashirama team up and push Madara back. Then Gai says "fuck it", slaps the senjuu out of Hashirama, and stuffs Madara up Obito's ass. From there, he will proceed to kick all the edo kage's into that blasted crappy tree, fire a dragon using his youthful sweat at it, and end this ridiculous pacing.


----------



## Mariko (Oct 21, 2013)

Bruce Wayne said:


> Was it ever explain why Madara gave his rinnegan to Nagato?



Madara said dat it was because he was an Uzumaki and only Uzumakis, as senju descendents, can survive such a power...


----------



## bloodplzkthxlol (Oct 21, 2013)

I want Sakura to be included just to complete the rookie rangers megazord. Give it a released forehead seal, something! And juugo to give kyusanoo some wings. What's more badass than a dragon samurai ninja demon fox? A dragon samurai ninja demon fox that can fly.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Oct 21, 2013)

T-Bag said:


> So he can revive him? lol



I mean as to why he gave them to an Uzumaki, instead of an Uchiha or Senju..


----------



## Klue (Oct 21, 2013)

Bruce Wayne said:


> I mean as to why he gave them to an Uzumaki, instead of an Uchiha or Senju..



Uchihas don't possess Senju powers, but Uzumaki's do. Nagato was also born in one of the smaller villages - I'm guessing that was also a factor.


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Oct 21, 2013)

Bruce Wayne said:


> I mean as to why he gave them to an Uzumaki, instead of an Uchiha or *Senju*..


In a way Madara did by giving them to an Uzumaki.

An Uchiha child would need some part of the Senju/Uzumaki heritage to make use of the Rinnegan.


----------



## eurytus (Oct 21, 2013)

Bruce Wayne said:


> I mean as to why he gave them to an Uzumaki, instead of an Uchiha or Senju..



cos rinnegan was retconned, RS and Senju were only introduced in the 2nd half of Part 2


----------



## Max Thunder (Oct 21, 2013)

Gai has worked hard to get that panel his youth deserves to be shown!


----------



## Rational1955 (Oct 21, 2013)

Has it been explained how the Sage of the Six Paths died yet?  Because Obito could turn out to be somewhat of an immortal...why would Madara want to go from being an immortal to becoming a being who is able to die so easily?(Well not easily but you can get the gist of what I'm saying)


----------



## Cjman121 (Oct 21, 2013)

Madara will probs go insane. JS


----------



## Klue (Oct 21, 2013)

Rational1955 said:


> Has it been explained how the Sage of the Six Paths died yet?  Because Obito could turn out to be somewhat of an immortal...why would Madara want to go from being an immortal to becoming a being who is able to die so easily?(Well not easily but you can get the gist of what I'm saying)



He died of old age.


----------



## mrsaphen (Oct 21, 2013)

Klue said:


> He died of old age.



Wasn't it stated in the db that he died on the battlefield?


----------



## takL (Oct 21, 2013)

mrsaphen said:


> Wasn't it stated in the db that he died on the battlefield?



No. dbs arent reliable but they dont say that.
 check what obito said in the 5kage summit.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Oct 21, 2013)

Bruce Wayne said:


> I mean as to why he gave them to an Uzumaki, instead of an Uchiha or Senju..



The Senju and Uzumaki are pretty much interchangeable for that. Nagato was even called a Senju somewhere (I think Madara may have said it, actually).


----------



## BeyondTwoSouls (Oct 21, 2013)

i think that madara will do something this chapter, because he missed the last ones (he didnt even respond to the kyuubi susano armor).
but a other point:
do you think that something will "happen" to gaara and bee ? i mean naruto still misses the chakra of the 1 and 8 tails.... so maybe he will get it, when these two persons "die" or something over happens to them...


----------



## The Faceless Man (Oct 21, 2013)

BeyondTwoSouls said:


> i think that madara will do something this chapter, because he missed the last ones (he didnt even respond to the kyuubi susano armor).
> but a other point:
> do you think that something will "happen" to gaara and bee ? i mean naruto still misses the chakra of the 1 and 8 tails.... so maybe he will get it, when these two persons "die" or something over happens to them...



madara should appear with the trump card he is missing for a few chapters , when he was about to use the rod in his hand , naruto will get somehow 1 tails chakra from garra and i hope killer bee sacrifice himself for naruto and gives the 8 tailed away , then we have god like power up for naruto with all 9 bijuus chakra maybe some juubi jin feats or other specials


----------



## Nathan Copeland (Oct 21, 2013)

the best way to end the manga is have

obito and madara are dead

everyone feel accomplished everyone is all smiles and crap naruto looks up to the sky and says i did pervy sage

sasuke looks up and says the same thing about itachi everyone celebrates and shit then 

kakashi teleports back to real word and sees everyone in a coma even obito and madara 

kakashi looks up to the moon and passes out

we see the moon for a sec and then a sharingan fade in on it 

the end


----------



## Gabe (Oct 21, 2013)

obito may get a final flashback that will start the end of obito as the bad guy. and madara may make his move to gain hashiramas senjutsu.


----------



## UchihaSage (Oct 21, 2013)

Naruto: Obito. You are finished. I will kill you if you continue.
Obito: Naruto, you will kill me? You have never killed anyone. I know.
Naruto: I don't know what life you had. I guess you are just like me. You can feel what I feel. If I kill you, it will be like killing myself. If it meant protecting my friends, I would end it all right here right now. 
Obito: Naruto I will give you and you alone a taste of my dream world. Come with me. We will enter it together.
Naruto: Who is this girl?
Obito: She is Rin. She is my friend. She died. I love her. 
Naruto: All this for Rin? You want to destroy my friends because you lost your friend? Dad! Kakashi! She was your friend too. I see it all now.
Obito: And?
Naruto: I lost my friends. I lost important people. You took my mother and father away from me. I don't hate you. I don't regret things. I don't know what I can do to change your heart.
Obito: Alright Naruto. Let's go back to the real world. Let's end this now. I will win though. You are destined to lose.
Madara: My backup plan is ready.
Rin: Rinne Tensei
Obito: RIN


----------



## rajin (Oct 21, 2013)

@nathan tobi and madara uchiha has kept this manga alive. who is interested in fodders and their whole crap?


----------



## Paranoid Android (Oct 21, 2013)

*How will this last attack turn out?*

How well would this combined susanoo-kyuubi-rookie squad turn out for Obito and Madara and the Jubi?


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 21, 2013)

Chapter 652: Ascension

The stunned Obito plummets to the ground, both halves of his body slamming into the crater he had created before after slamming Naruto and Sasuke into it before. Sasuke's Susano'o, in its perfect form separates from Naruto's Biju Sage Mode as they landed. Obito reaches with one of his stumps as blood burst from his mouth.

"No...I almost had it...!" Obito yelled as the Ten-Tails then forcibly ejects its remaining self from Obito's body, entering the tree. His cry of pain echoes through the battlefield and he reached with a stump. "No...no...I had...I was...you damn..."

Naruto gritted his teeth. "Its over you bastard. You've LOST. And I made you care about your damn identity. Go to hell where you belong."

"What are...you expecting?" Obito snarled, spitting out more blood as the hole Kakashi had made in his chest appeared once more as did Minato's Hiraishin's mark. "For me to convert at the end...just like Nagato?" he sneered. "You won't get it...somehow...I'll get my..."

Suddenly a Mokuton root smashed down on Obito's body, crushing it utterly. "I believe I'll be taking your Zetsu half back now, Obito," Madara said as he arrived...with Hashirama. Hashirama was out of it...and when his eyes were shown they were the Rinnegan. "Meet my Path of Pain."

Sasuke and Naruto turned seeing Madara grinning. "You!" both yelled.

"Now as I was trying before..." Madara lifted what remained of Obito's dying body up, having him form hands of wood. "You will resurrect me. Gedo, Rinnei Tensei!"

And with that...Obito was forced with the last of his lifeforce to bring Madara back to life...


----------



## Klue (Oct 21, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12, that was beautiful.

Thank you.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 21, 2013)

My theory is that Madara is either making Hashirama his Path of Pain, or using Outer Path + Preta Path to _consume_ Hashirama's Sage Mode for his own. Then it'll be Rinnegan Sage Mode Madara vs Biju Sage Mode Naruto and Perfect Susano'o Sasuke. I figure Naruto will fight Madara and Sasuke will fight Path of Pain Hashirama, considering Edo Madara+ is stronger than EMS Madara and Hashirama, and Sasuke defeating Hashirama would mean he's stronger than EMS Madara. Good thought there too?


----------



## Kyuubi Naruto (Oct 21, 2013)

Naruto and Sasuke are likely done fighting after all that's transpired if Obito is actually defeated. They needed to make their attack work so they gave it their all hence one reason why Naruto used the Rookies instead of clones. With the Rookies it allows more chakra for their final attack. If Obito's actually defeated next chapter, Naruto and Sasuke out of most of their chakra. Naruto will begin his talk and true conversion with Obito. There's a lot that needs to go on with the of them which includes a mega-long flashback from Obito's side. 

Chances are the Kages and everyone else will attempt to take down Madara while destroying the tree next.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Oct 22, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> My theory is that Madara is either making Hashirama his Path of Pain, or using Outer Path + Preta Path to _consume_ Hashirama's Sage Mode for his own. Then it'll be Rinnegan Sage Mode Madara vs Biju Sage Mode Naruto and Perfect Susano'o Sasuke. I figure Naruto will fight Madara and Sasuke will fight Path of Pain Hashirama, considering Edo Madara+ is stronger than EMS Madara and Hashirama, and Sasuke defeating Hashirama would mean he's stronger than EMS Madara. Good thought there too?



Unless Hashirama goes along willingly. Would make for an entertaining, if unlikely, twist.


----------



## Ichiurto (Oct 22, 2013)

While I always prescribed to the theory that the Uzumaki, Senju and Uchiha clans were all three separate entities with Senju representing the Younger Brother, the Uchiha the Older Brother and the Uzumaki their Father (The Sage). That however seems debunked, so perhaps it's as simple as it seems:

The Senju clan split. They never had any identifiable Blood-line abilities or anything like the Uchiha - perhaps it was a case the Senju as a clan kind of fragmented and broke up and become a bunch of smaller, different clans and Uzumaki are one of them. The Senju clan is gone by the time Naruto starts after-all.

It's possible Hashirama kind of 'dissolved' them when he made the village and they went on to form their own clans, with the Uzumaki going on to form their own village.

In that way, Naruto and Nagato are Senju.


----------



## rac585 (Oct 22, 2013)

UchihaSage said:


> Naruto: Obito. You are finished. I will kill you if you continue.
> Obito: Naruto, you will kill me? You have never killed anyone. I know.
> Naruto: I don't know what life you had. I guess you are just like me. You can feel what I feel. If I kill you, it will be like killing myself. If it meant protecting my friends, I would end it all right here right now.
> Obito: Naruto I will give you and you alone a taste of my dream world. Come with me. We will enter it together.
> ...



>rinne tensei
>rin
100% confrimframmed.


----------



## T-Bag (Oct 22, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Chapter 652: Ascension
> 
> The stunned Obito plummets to the ground, both halves of his body slamming into the crater he had created before after slamming Naruto and Sasuke into it before. Sasuke's Susano'o, in its perfect form separates from Naruto's Biju Sage Mode as they landed. Obito reaches with one of his stumps as blood burst from his mouth.
> 
> ...



this is great. this is what needs to happen


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 22, 2013)

I'm not seeing why Naruto of all people would attempt to talk Obito' out of his plan too. He's displayed nothing but anger and loathing of him. It was _Kakashi_ who tried to save him but failed and Naruto doesn't even know of Obito's relevance other than being the biggest bastard in the entire world.


----------



## Rosi (Oct 22, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And Obito be like: "Bro, not this shit again "


----------



## Mariko (Oct 22, 2013)

doppelganger said:


> I'll go along with the Rikudō is an Uzumaki theory. This is more fan-fiction than a prediction, so please bear with me.
> 
> What if Madara's revelation is that he was behind Uzushiogakure's destruction, which he orchestrated through Kirigakure while it was secretly under his control. Recognizing the threat that Naruto now poses, he claims that he should have finished the job when he had the chance to, a mistake which he'll now correct, but not before thanking him for weakening Obito.
> 
> ...




Everything is good, but the last part is great! 

Do it Kishi!


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 22, 2013)

Rosi said:


> And Obito be like: "Bro, not this shit again "


He's cut in half, literally dying, and has no choice now in my scenario. Especially with a crushed body and mokuton hands that MADARA creates.


----------



## Ichiurto (Oct 22, 2013)

We finish one fight with the Juubi Jinchurriki only to walk right into another? I don't know... Can't see it happening. I mean, I guess it sorta happened somewhat with the Rinn'egan (Madara using the Absorbing Technique).

But I can't really see what's next fight-wise other than that. I mean.. What's stronger than the Juubi?


----------



## UchihaSage (Oct 22, 2013)

FV Rin will eat the fruit and be stronger than Rikudou himself. Can you believe Rin will come back and absolutely be the strongest kunoichi who ever existed?


----------



## The Faceless Man (Oct 22, 2013)

UchihaSage said:


> FV Rin will eat the fruit and be stronger than Rikudou himself. Can you believe Rin will come back and absolutely be the strongest kunoichi who ever existed?



if you like reding dumb stuff like that there is always fairy tail.... no need to hope in Naruto when you got Fairy tail


----------



## Zelavour (Oct 22, 2013)

Well since most of Kishimoto's writing is pretty obvious (tobi being obito is a huge example) i doubt it will be anything we havent already figured out 10 times on our own by now.
It will probably be something obvious that Madara was behind the whole "kakashi kills rin" thing and Obito gets all angry and sad, or it will be his trump card which is probably to controll obito.

Hope im wrong.


----------



## Mariko (Oct 22, 2013)

Zelavour said:


> Well since most of Kishimoto's writing is pretty obvious (tobi being obito is a huge example) i doubt it will be anything we havent already figured out 10 times on our own by now.
> *It will probably be something obvious that Madara was behind the whole "kakashi kills rin" thing and Obito gets all angry and sad,* or it will be his trump card which is probably to controll obito.
> 
> Hope im wrong.



Something like this, if Kishi hasn't already forgoten this point...


----------



## John Connor (Oct 22, 2013)

Zelavour said:


> Well since most of Kishimoto's writing is pretty obvious (tobi being obito is a huge example) i doubt it will be anything we havent already figured out 10 times on our own by now.
> It will probably be something obvious that Madara was behind the whole "kakashi kills rin" thing and Obito gets all angry and sad, or it will be his trump card which is probably to controll obito.
> 
> Hope im wrong.


the writing is obvious? hindsight etc etc...

Tobi being Obito and Madara being in the coffin were panned by the majority of the forum


----------



## Jayaraman MinatoItachi (Oct 22, 2013)

Don't think rin's death will be most shocking truth. Madara ordered the annihilation of uchiha clan will only be shocking truth to sasuke.


----------



## SharkBomb 4 (Oct 22, 2013)

Kakashi killed Rin because the Hidden Mist kidnapped her and sealed a tailed beast inside so she forced Kakashi to kill her by jumping in front of his attack. Obito already knows how and why she died, unless your suggesting that Madara somehow got in touch with the Hidden Mist government, convinced them to seal a beast in some specific girl and did this all from his cave as a dying old man with nothing to offer them other than the words of some creepy zetsus that would go in his place to make such a deal? It's hilarious that so many people see this as the "obvious" plot twist.


----------



## RockSauron (Oct 22, 2013)

SharkBomb 4 said:


> Kakashi killed Rin because the Hidden Mist kidnapped her and sealed a tailed beast inside so she forced Kakashi to kill her by jumping in front of his attack. Obito already knows how and why she died, unless your suggesting that Madara somehow got in touch with the Hidden Mist government, convinced them to seal a beast in some specific girl and did this all from his cave as a dying old man with nothing to offer them other than the words of some creepy zetsus that would go in his place to make such a deal? It's hilarious that so many people see this as the "obvious" plot twist.



This. I mean, even if Madara did somehow manipulate those events, it's not like Obito would even care. Hell, he'd probably know by now. Seriously, think before you hate.


----------



## The Faceless Man (Oct 22, 2013)

SharkBomb 4 said:


> Kakashi killed Rin because the Hidden Mist kidnapped her and sealed a tailed beast inside so she forced Kakashi to kill her by jumping in front of his attack. Obito already knows how and why she died, unless your suggesting that Madara somehow got in touch with the Hidden Mist government, convinced them to seal a beast in some specific girl and did this all from his cave as a dying old man with nothing to offer them other than the words of some creepy zetsus that would go in his place to make such a deal? It's hilarious that so many people see this as the "obvious" plot twist.



1. Rin killed herself after all she was he one to jump into kakashi attack , kakashi din't killed her 

2. Madara is behind this he knew that Obito will come back and he even had a nice smile about this....

3. Yes its fucking obibous to the point of why would minato let kakashi alone with rin ( Cuz he was an a mission  )


----------



## SharkBomb 4 (Oct 22, 2013)

Ultimate Bijuu said:


> 1. Rin killed herself after all she was he one to jump into kakashi attack , kakashi din't killed her



Did you even finish reading the first sentence of my post? 



> 2. Madara is behind this he knew that Obito will come back and he even had a nice smile about this....



This could have been for a number of reasons.



> 3. Yes its fucking obibous to the point of why would minato let kakashi alone with rin ( Cuz he was an a mission  )



If Madara was somehow behind Rin's kidnapping, how would that change the reason why Minato didn't go with Kakashi to rescue her?


----------



## NarutoShion4ever (Oct 22, 2013)

At this point it wouldn't surprise if the peace between the Senju and the Uchiha lead to a massacre among the Younger Son's descendants. Because if there's one Younger Son clan outside Konoha (the Uzumaki) there might be more. Kumo especially might have a Younger Son clan. In the end, when the 1st and 2nd Shinobi World Wars happen, it might have resulted in Younger Son clan fighting against Younger Son clan with the unfortunate result that the Senju and Uzumaki became pretty much extinct. In other words, Hashirama's quest for peace between the Senju and Uchiha almost brought about the end of the descendants of the Younger Son, while the Uchiha won by default. 

It's not as if this manga has done anything other than prove that Hashirama's father was right all along: "Kill an Uchiha, save the world." :rofl




PikaCheeka said:


> The Senju and Uzumaki are pretty much interchangeable for that. Nagato was even called a Senju somewhere (I think Madara may have said it, actually).




I believe it was Obito who called Nagato an Uzumaki, while Zetsu called Nagato a Senju.

Nagato's father could have been an Uzumaki and his mother could have been a Senju. 




SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> My theory is that Madara is either making Hashirama his Path of Pain, or using Outer Path + Preta Path to _consume_ Hashirama's Sage Mode for his own. Then it'll be Rinnegan Sage Mode Madara vs Biju Sage Mode Naruto and Perfect Susano'o Sasuke. I figure Naruto will fight Madara and Sasuke will fight Path of Pain Hashirama, considering Edo Madara+ is stronger than EMS Madara and Hashirama, and Sasuke defeating Hashirama would mean he's stronger than EMS Madara. Good thought there too?




The Preta Path jutsu shouldn't work given that Naruto turned the Preta Path character to stone.




X Itachi X said:


> Obito being Tobi was hated because everyone assumed it was 'Too obvious' due to the hair similarities etc.   They (i at the time) assumed Kishi would come up with something a little more surprising/deep.




Hair similarity was a stupid argument in itself. It's not as if Lantern Guy turned out to be an evil Minato: he turned out to be Yahiko.


----------



## eurytus (Oct 22, 2013)

I hope the twist is more interesting than Madara was behind Rin's death, it'd do nothing to the plot besides making Obito's sob story even more sobby....


----------



## Mariko (Oct 22, 2013)

eurytus said:


> I hope the twist is more interesting than Madara was behind Rin's death, it'd do nothing to the plot besides making Obito's sob story even more sobby....



Sobbyto! 

More srsly, at this point, it doesn't matter what Kishi does from the moment that it's funny... And another Madara's troll toward Obito would be fun imo.


----------



## Rosi (Oct 22, 2013)

Dragon Fawkes said:


> Sobbyto!
> 
> More srsly, at this point, it doesn't matter what Kishi does from the moment that it's funny... *And another Madara's troll toward Obito would be fun imo.*



the other way round would be even better


----------



## Thdyingbreed (Oct 22, 2013)

Hopefully Obito is finally done for and the plot can finally move on instead of Kishimoto repeating the same thing ad nauseum like he's been doing for the past couple of months.

It's Madara's time now.


----------



## John Connor (Oct 22, 2013)

Thdyingbreed said:


> Hopefully Obito is finally done for and the plot can finally move on instead of Kishimoto repeating the same thing ad nauseum


thats because we are all caught in Infinite Tsukuyomi


----------



## PikaCheeka (Oct 22, 2013)

Jayaraman MinatoItachi said:


> Don't think rin's death will be most shocking truth. Madara ordered the annihilation of uchiha clan will only be shocking truth to sasuke.



Yea I think he was involved with Rin's death but I doubt anyone would care about that, especially because he is still talking to Hashirama and Hashirama wouldn't give a shit enough to tell anyone. He'd probably just ask who Rin was.

IF that preview is accurate for this week, anyway. 

Truth is probably related to the tree and Obito as the jinn.
Maybe:
1) The 15-minute thing was a lie.
2) The fruit is coming this year (though I doubt he'd say it if this is true)
3) The MT has already begun.

Or maybe it's something about his own powers like:
1) How he survived VotE.
2) More details about his black rods.

And of course, random (and IMO, likely) stuff like:
1) He caused Rin's death.
2) He caused the Uchiha massacre.
3) He wiped out the Uzumaki clan.
...could come up, but I don't know how they'd fit the current situation.

But overall, I hesitate to think that preview is even for this week, considering how many have been random lately.


----------



## BeyondTwoSouls (Oct 22, 2013)

PikaCheeka said:


> 1) How he survived VotE.
> 2) More details about his black rods.
> 
> And of course, random (and IMO, likely) stuff like:
> ...



i didnt even thought about this 2 ones.
this would be quite interesting...

that he had something to do with the uchiha or uzumaki clan wipe out would really be a new "shocking" trueth


----------



## Abz (Oct 22, 2013)

Zelavour said:


> *It will probably be something obvious that Madara was behind the whole "kakashi kills rin" thing and Obito gets all angry and sad*, or it will be his trump card which is probably to controll obito.
> 
> Hope im wrong.




now what is that film....

that the villian character was yelling at another villian character .... saying

"_You made me this way/like this_"


----------



## Animaeon (Oct 22, 2013)

Abz said:


> now what is that film....
> 
> that the villian character was yelling at another villian character .... saying
> 
> "_You made me this way/like this_"




Doctor Who? 


*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]Cfyye1rTfdg[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Abz (Oct 22, 2013)

Animaeon said:


> Doctor Who?
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



THAT'S THE ONE!!!!!!!

It's gonna turn out exactly like that


----------



## takL (Oct 22, 2013)

PikaCheeka said:


> 1) He caused Rin's death.
> 2) He caused the Uchiha massacre.
> 3) He wiped out the Uzumaki clan.



Maddy isnt such a bad person!!! 
and he isnt a lair! 

his saving obito might have caused the massacre but he wanted to protect the clan and he had nothing personal against the uchihas killed in the massacre.


----------



## The Faceless Man (Oct 22, 2013)

Chinese forums says that obito goes flashback mode and talks his goodbyes with kakashi and naruto, last page madara uses soul transfer/will transfer


----------



## BeyondTwoSouls (Oct 22, 2013)

@ takL:

but madara wants to create a dream world and who knows how far he would go to reach that goal...



Ultimate Bijuu said:


> Chinese forums says that obito goes flashback mode and talks his goodbyes with kakashi and naruto, last page madara uses soul transfer/will transfer



isnt it a bit to early for such a preview ? this might be just speculations...
which chinese forum do you mean ?

ps: why are all times chinese guys leaking spoilers etc ? i mean naruto is ja JAPANESE manga...


----------



## Canuckgirl (Oct 22, 2013)

According to Kishimoto's facebook, Madara has a secret that will be revealed.  As for my prediction, I predict that the forums will be bitching about something they don't like, blah, blah


----------



## takL (Oct 22, 2013)

Kish doesnt use facebook or twitter. his assistant does tho.


----------



## Menacing Eyes (Oct 22, 2013)

Ultimate Bijuu said:


> Chinese forums says that obito goes flashback mode and talks his goodbyes with kakashi and naruto, last page madara uses soul transfer/will transfer


I'm not holding my breath for anything their forum says unless they have a chapter posted.

It still seems a bit early for that, not to mention soul transferring doesn't seem like Madara's style, nor does it seem to fit with his new plan involving Hashirama's sage mode.


----------



## revas (Oct 22, 2013)

Menacing Eyes said:


> I'm not holding my breathe for anything their forum says unless they have a chapter.
> 
> It still seems a bit early for that, not to mention soul transferring doesn't seem like Madara's style.



well, just this morning i had an idea about soul transfer technique. this is the only viable option right now. and knowing that madara can copy any technique, and enhance it with his newfound senju dna, he could make it permanent. and beeing host of jyuubi is so much better than just having rinnegan or susanoo. it is not so far fetched as it might seem. if we add that madara wants to have a real body (not the edo tensei one) - it seems very likely.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Oct 22, 2013)

Ultimate Bijuu said:


> Chinese forums says that obito goes flashback mode and talks his goodbyes with kakashi and naruto, last page madara uses soul transfer/will transfer



That's just awful..


----------



## BeyondTwoSouls (Oct 22, 2013)

we still dont know if madara got the sage mode from hashirama, or better how he has/would do this.


----------



## The Faceless Man (Oct 22, 2013)

Menacing Eyes said:


> I'm not holding my breath for anything their forum says unless they have a chapter posted.
> 
> It still seems a bit early for that, not to mention soul transferring doesn't seem like Madara's style, nor does it seem to fit with his new plan involving Hashirama's sage mode.



His an edo somehow he must aquire a living body to become juubi jin and i doubt he will use the same trick of makeing obito use rinne tensei on him


----------



## Scarlet Ammo (Oct 22, 2013)

Looks like Obito won't be "redeemed" after all


----------



## takL (Oct 22, 2013)

BeyondTwoSouls said:


> @ takL:
> 
> but madara wants to create a dream world and who knows how far he would go to reach that goal...




yeah if it was neccessarrily for the goal hed do it. because maddy is a shinobi
as hash said a shinobi is who bears and endures anything to attain their aim
and shinobis differ depending on what they aim at, like he and maddy.

but when maddy heard naruto was an ucumaki he was like  "same to mito?"
no comment at sasuke, a living uhiha. 

if he was crafty enough he wouldnt have been mentaly worn out by 'the silent wars'.


----------



## zuul (Oct 22, 2013)

I don't want sexy Madara to take over ugly Obito's body.


----------



## Abz (Oct 22, 2013)

Ultimate Bijuu said:


> Chinese forums says that obito goes flashback mode and talks his goodbyes with kakashi and naruto, last page madara uses soul transfer/will transfer



i wouldn't trust them to be honest.....

it's seems to early....and a joy killer.....


----------



## BeyondTwoSouls (Oct 22, 2013)

takL said:


> but when maddy heard naruto was an ucumaki he was like  "same to mito?"
> no comment at sasuke, a living uhiha.
> 
> if he was crafty enough he wouldnt have been mentaly worn out by 'the silent wars'.



1. in which chapter have he said that "same to mito" (sorry i cant remember now)
2. what do you mean with "the silent wars"


----------



## The Faceless Man (Oct 22, 2013)

Scarlet Ammo said:


> Looks like Obito won't be "redeemed" after all



What ? I dont even need to read the chapter to know he will say " i belive in you naruto uzumaki "


----------



## Abz (Oct 22, 2013)

Ultimate Bijuu said:


> What ? I dont even need to read the chapter to know he will say " *i belive in you naruto uzumaki* "



anything please....not them god damn words


----------



## takL (Oct 22, 2013)

BeyondTwoSouls said:


> 1. in which chapter have he said that "same to mito" (sorry i cant remember now)
> 2. what do you mean with "the silent wars"



1. when kabuto tells him that the boy over there is 9bs jinchuriki. vol 59 page 112
2. maddy says 'cooperation is  so to speak, no more than silent battles (between the cooperators)' when he says goodbye to hash.vol 65 page 149


----------



## Addy (Oct 22, 2013)

Abz said:


> anything please....not them god damn words



how about 

obito "halleluiah!!!!!!!!!! i was saaaaaaaaved!!!!!!! "
naruto "do you see _*my*_ light, my son?"
obito "yes!!!!!!!!!!!!! "
naruto "i asked,  DO YOU SEE _*MY*_ LIGHT, MY SON?"
obito "yeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssss!!!!!!! "
naruto "ok, now use the rennie tense, revive everyone, and die "
obito "i *trust* you, naruto uzumaki!!!!!!"'

:ignoramus


----------



## Rosi (Oct 22, 2013)

I predict another troll


----------



## zuul (Oct 22, 2013)

I would be really surprized if Obito wasn't TNJed. As soon as Nardo can relate to someone in any way, his brainwashing power take over and the purification begins.

Obito has the most in common with Nardo. He cannot escape his fate.


----------



## BeyondTwoSouls (Oct 22, 2013)

zuul said:


> I would be really surprized if Obito wasn't TNJed. As soon as Nardo can relate to someone in any way, his brainwashing power take over and the purification begins.
> 
> Obito has the most in common with Nardo. He cannot escape his fate.



oh my god, you are right!

this is it. this brainwashing technique is narutos "that justu".
the ultimate jutsu, no one can escape it. it was all times so obvious. why didnt i get it further ?


----------



## The Faceless Man (Oct 22, 2013)

Addy said:


> how about
> 
> obito "halleluiah!!!!!!!!!! i was saaaaaaaaved!!!!!!! "
> naruto "do you see _*my*_ light, my son?"
> ...



that would be awesome , i think that is the only way his fans would accept that obito is a shit villain , but somehow in someway i think that juubi will revive everyone after the war , world tree/gaia/life creation its just makes sense


----------



## Rosi (Oct 22, 2013)

Ultimate Bijuu said:


> that would be awesome , i think that is the only way his fans would accept that obito is a shit villain



let it go, alexu  that will never happen. I wonder why would any sane person have the same opinion as you on anything.


----------



## Addy (Oct 22, 2013)

as long as obito dies soon, then madara and then this shit fight is done


----------



## NW (Oct 22, 2013)

I don't know why the previews used to be so accurate and now they rarely come about... 

Also, I don't see how Madara could have had any hand in the massacre. He died before even the Kurama attack. 

I also wonder if Kishi will kill off any more of the Konoha 11. because why not? 



Dragon Fawkes said:


> Sobbyto!
> 
> More srsly, at this point, it doesn't matter what Kishi does from the moment that it's funny... And another Madara's troll toward Obito would be fun imo.


Another? When has Madara trolled Obito? 



Thdyingbreed said:


> Hopefully Obito is finally done for and the plot can finally move on instead of Kishimoto repeating the same thing ad nauseum like he's been doing for the past couple of months.
> 
> It's Madara's time now.


And then Madara starts going on about how bad reality is.


----------



## The Faceless Man (Oct 22, 2013)

Rosi said:


> let it go, alexu  that will never happen. why would any sane person have the same opinion as you anyway.



half the forum knows obito is a shit villain and even more are waiting for madara to take the spot light just to get rid of that piece of shit character called obito


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Oct 22, 2013)

Addy said:


> how about
> 
> obito "halleluiah!!!!!!!!!! i was saaaaaaaaved!!!!!!! "
> naruto "do you see _*my*_ light, my son?"
> ...



 

That would be awesome.


----------



## Rosi (Oct 22, 2013)

Ultimate Bijuu said:


> half the forum knows obito is a shit villain and even more are waiting for madara to take the spot light just to get rid of that piece of shit character called obito



I forgive them for their ignorance. Your case is quite sad though.


----------



## Klue (Oct 22, 2013)

Rosi said:


> let it go, alexu  that will never happen. I wonder why would any sane person have the same opinion as you on anything.



Ah, but Rosi, we all know Obito is destine to use the Rinne Tensei jutsu.



Either him or Sasuke.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Oct 22, 2013)

Fusion said:


> I don't know why the previews used to be so accurate and now they rarely come about...
> 
> Also, I don't see how Madara could have had any hand in the massacre. He died before even the Kurama attack.



Madara could have told him to do it.

There was no reason whatsoever for Obito to unleash the Kyuubi on Konoha except to set up the Uchiha coup and massacre. Maybe it was revenge, or maybe they just needed to be gonefor MT to work. The former would def be Madara's doing. The latter would obviously be something Madara thought of.


----------



## T-Bag (Oct 22, 2013)

Rosi said:


> I predict another troll



naruto troll this time


----------



## Klue (Oct 22, 2013)

T-Bag said:


> naruto troll this time



T-Bag, tell me bro: is this "the week?"


----------



## Fay (Oct 22, 2013)

I hope this obito "fight" ends soon...after two years it's been long enough. Let's go on to  Madara.


----------



## Harbour (Oct 22, 2013)

Oh, guys i predict shitload tonns of Obito's, Minato's and Kakashi's flashbacks, which we already saw. 
Dont waiting anything great from this chapter.


----------



## NW (Oct 22, 2013)

PikaCheeka said:


> Madara could have told him to do it.
> 
> There was no reason whatsoever for Obito to unleash the Kyuubi on Konoha except to set up the Uchiha coup and massacre.
> 
> Maybe it was revenge, or maybe they just needed to be gonefor MT to work. The former would def be Madara's doing. The latter would obviously be something Madara thought of.


Well, Obito implied it was to get the Kyuubi as well, but he wouldn't be able to seal it. And Obito wouldn't have lied to Sasuke about attacking the village unless his purpose was to frame the Uchiha, so you're probably right.

It's also strange how the Uchiha appeared to be gone that night, though. That has yet to be elaborated on. Actually, I'm not sure if it was canonically stated if they were missing. Kagami was missing from his squad on that night though, and Itachi said Fugaku and Mikoto were "out".


----------



## The Faceless Man (Oct 22, 2013)

Rosi said:


> I forgive them for their ignorance. Your case is quite sad though.



i speak my mind openly and how i see the story and manga , if there is someone sad i think its you  ...enjoy a villain just because his a troll makes you a simple minded person and that is truly sad


----------



## takL (Oct 22, 2013)

PikaCheeka said:


> Madara could have told him to do it.
> 
> There was no reason whatsoever for Obito to unleash the Kyuubi on Konoha except to set up the Uchiha coup and massacre. Maybe it was revenge, or maybe they just needed to be gonefor MT to work. The former would def be Madara's doing. The latter would obviously be something Madara thought of.



No way.
there was few peep maddy knew in the clan. 
And its the clan maddy wanted to protect.


----------



## T-Bag (Oct 22, 2013)

Klue said:


> T-Bag, tell me bro: is this "the week?"



lol

this week or next, or the following after that, it dont matter

its right around the corner. obito is done


----------



## Addy (Oct 22, 2013)

i smell another year before obito dies


----------



## Klue (Oct 22, 2013)

Fay said:


> I hope this obito "fight" ends soon...after two years it's been long enough. Let's go on to  Madara.



This, we all agree with. 

Juubi Jinchuuriki, so disappointing.


----------



## NW (Oct 22, 2013)

takL said:


> No way.
> there was few peep maddy knew in the clan.
> And its the clan maddy wanted to protect.


I don't think he wanted to protect them anymore when he gave up on the whole world.


----------



## Xeros (Oct 22, 2013)

I predict something like the 15 minutes are up and done. Then we can see some interesting stuff next chapter.


----------



## takL (Oct 22, 2013)

obito is cut in half. maddy cant use him to rinneten himself if obitos dead. 
maybe obito can regenerate like tsuna but itll take time.
wonder if maddy need hashs sage power anymore.


----------



## NW (Oct 22, 2013)

Xeros said:


> I predict something like the 15 minutes are up and done. Then we can see some interesting stuff next chapter.


Imagine if Madara made a mistake and it was actually 4 hours before it blooms. :ho

The rage will be delicious. 

Or he just lied to keep NF from crashing.


----------



## Rosi (Oct 22, 2013)

Klue said:


> Ah, but Rosi, we all know Obito is destine to use the Rinne Tensei jutsu.
> 
> 
> 
> Either him or Sasuke.



I'm pretty sure neither will use it. Fodder aren't worthy of such great power used for them. Neither is Neji. 


T-Bag said:


> naruto troll this time


I would prefer an Obito one, but that would also be good.


Ultimate Bijuu said:


> i speak my mind openly and how i see the story and manga , if there is someone sad i think its you  ...*enjoy a villain just because his a troll* makes you a simple minded person and that is truly sad



that's just one of his most brilliant assets


----------



## Xeros (Oct 22, 2013)

Fusion said:


> Imagine if Madara made a mistake and it was actually 4 hours before it blooms. :ho
> 
> The rage will be delicious.
> 
> Or he just lied to keep NF from crashing.


 haha
That Kishi wrote 15 minutes because he wished to keep Fans hopes up that the battle will end quickly. 

Kishi's new master troll plan. It's already taking like 10 chapters for 15 minutes to go by, so imagine 4 hours= how many chapters


----------



## Gunners (Oct 22, 2013)

In a dream world Obito would have a flashback of Rin only for Madara to hijack his mind/body. First he would erase his memories of Rin, but leave it so that he knows he is missing something, then he would place his consciousness in a cage. All before showing the world how a villain gets down. 

What we will probably get is another flashback of Rin where she says something similar to what Naruto is saying/doing now. Then we will skip back to the actual battlefield where Obito finally acknowledges Naruto.


----------



## Addy (Oct 22, 2013)

preview said gai would be in the chapter last week


----------



## takL (Oct 22, 2013)

Fusion said:


> I don't think he wanted to protect them anymore when he gave up on the whole world.



yeah when he wants to protect all human beings forever.


Because he loves humanbeings, he hates the dark side of human nature and the the world they are put in. thats why he decided to take them to the Paradice of his version of mugentsukuyomi where they dont need to suffer(=think).

if he hated mankind, no need for such a hassle. hed just kill them all.


----------



## RockSauron (Oct 22, 2013)

I don't think either Madara or Obito planned the massacre. I think Obito was just checking out Rin's grave from the shadows, when Kakashi said Kushina was to give birth soon, which was shown, and then he just decided on a whim to attack the village. Why? Probably because the Nine Tails seal was weakest there and he would need it... eventually. And he attacked the village because, well, he hasn't exactly shown restraint in his current battle against people who'd oppose his dream. He hasn't killed many, sure, but not for a lack of trying. So yeah, it looks to me like the Nine Tails attack was done on a whim once he heard Kushina was to give birth and wasn't planned by either of them.

Even if Madara did plan that and Rin's death, it just would go against what Kishi is trying to convey if every bad thing is tied to one man. Madara and Obito's whole thing is that bad shit happens from all sides, and the only way to get rid of bad shit is to make a dream. Having all the bad shit the fault of one man would go against that, so I don't think either of those will happen.


----------



## Raventhal (Oct 22, 2013)

takL said:


> yeah when he wants to protect all human beings forever.
> 
> 
> Because he loves humanbeings, he hates the dark side of human nature and the the world they are put in. thats why he decided to take them to the Paradice of his version of mugentsukuyomi where they dont need to suffer(=think).
> ...



Um he just slaughter a bunch of fodder for fun.  He's twisted for sure.


----------



## NW (Oct 22, 2013)

takL said:


> yeah when he wants to protect all human beings forever.
> 
> 
> Because he loves humanbeings, he hates the dark side of human nature and the the world they are put in. thats why he decided to take them to the Paradice of his version of mugentsukuyomi where they dont need to suffer(=think).
> ...


Yeah, you have a point.

Although, he implied that he enjoyed war, so he kinda confuses me. 

[sp][/sp]

Unless he was just talking about the view of dead bodies and/or destroyed ladscapes, but that's just as bad. 



RockSauron said:


> I don't think either Madara or Obito planned the massacre. I think Obito was just checking out Rin's grave from the shadows, when Kakashi said Kushina was to give birth soon, which was shown, and then he just decided on a whim to attack the village. Why? Probably because the Nine Tails seal was weakest there and he would need it... eventually. And he attacked the village because, well, he hasn't exactly shown restraint in his current battle against people who'd oppose his dream. He hasn't killed many, sure, but not for a lack of trying. So yeah, it looks to me like the Nine Tails attack was done on a whim once he heard Kushina was to give birth and wasn't planned by either of them.
> 
> Even if Madara did plan that and Rin's death, it just would go against what Kishi is trying to convey if every bad thing is tied to one man. Madara and Obito's whole thing is that bad shit happens from all sides, and the only way to get rid of bad shit is to make a dream. Having all the bad shit the fault of one man would go against that, so I don't think either of those will happen.


Obito stated to Minato that it could be said that he did it on a whim or that he planned it.

I guess he means he right out of the blue came up with the idea and then planned it out.


----------



## Jimnast (Oct 22, 2013)

Addy said:


> i smell another year before obito dies



I literally cannot stop laughing at this, bravo bravo!


----------



## RBL (Oct 22, 2013)

Addy said:


> preview said gai would be in the chapter last week



probably he is going to comment about lee using his rasengan

or...

another barrier


----------



## Addy (Oct 22, 2013)

Jimnast said:


> I literally cannot stop laughing at this, bravo bravo!



sad thing is..... i am not joking  

it has been about two years since this battle started and we already got the "oh no, obito is dead but he really isn't" moments.

i need this fight to end. it is stupid.





Brandon Lee said:


> probably he is going to comment about lee using his rasengan
> 
> or...
> 
> another barrier



or say he will use the 8 gates but doesn't..... again


----------



## Rose (Oct 22, 2013)

I predict Orochimaru doing something. Or Rin appears.


----------



## eyeknockout (Oct 22, 2013)

obito dies. madara steals hashirama's sage mode and the juubi. 

rinnegan, mokuton, sage mode, juubi jin immortal madara goes on an on panel rampage.


----------



## Hossaim (Oct 22, 2013)

I predict more friendship.


----------



## T-Bag (Oct 22, 2013)

@hossaim
^its inevitable


----------



## MS81 (Oct 22, 2013)

eyeknockout said:


> obito dies. madara steals hashirama's sage mode and the juubi.
> 
> rinnegan, mokuton, sage mode, juubi jin immortal madara goes on an on panel rampage.



If he dies, he's leaving Kakashi another present...


----------



## NarutoShion4ever (Oct 22, 2013)

RockSauron said:


> I don't think either Madara or Obito planned the massacre. I think Obito was just checking out Rin's grave from the shadows, when Kakashi said Kushina was to give birth soon, which was shown, and then he just decided on a whim to attack the village. Why? Probably because the Nine Tails seal was weakest there and he would need it... eventually. And he attacked the village because, well, he hasn't exactly shown restraint in his current battle against people who'd oppose his dream. He hasn't killed many, sure, but not for a lack of trying. So yeah, it looks to me like the Nine Tails attack was done on a whim once he heard Kushina was to give birth and wasn't planned by either of them.
> 
> Even if Madara did plan that and Rin's death, it just would go against what Kishi is trying to convey if every bad thing is tied to one man. Madara and Obito's whole thing is that bad shit happens from all sides, and the only way to get rid of bad shit is to make a dream. Having all the bad shit the fault of one man would go against that, so I don't think either of those will happen.




But that ship has already sailed since it was revealed that Nagato's whole life was manipulated by Madara and Obito. Madara implanted the Rinnegan in Nagato...and just hoped he would become suitably broken to be willing to revive Madara? Obito became his mentor of a sort for no reason? In the end, we simply don't know the extent of Madara's manipulations.

And from the other perspective, you can't have Madara survive for more than half a century and have him twiddling his thumbs during all that time.

That said, I do agree with you that Obito's *should* not have been manipulated by Madara. As you say, the point about the MEP is that bad stuff can happen to anyone at any time. But this message too is undermined by having Obito as the person who attacked Konoha by extracting, mind-controlling, and summoning the Kyuubi and have it rampage inside Konoha for no apparent reason. Even if Madara is only responsible for, and I hypothesise: retrieving Obito's corpse, bringing it back to old Madara's cave, reviving Obito and making him whole again through Zetsu goo...that still makes Madara partially responsible for everything that Obito did afterwards.

I've been struggling with these mixed messages too and the only answer I can come up with is that Kishimoto is once again *telling* us one thing, while *showing* us something else. So the manipulations of Obito's life will only be revealed after Obito has died.


----------



## Trojan (Oct 22, 2013)

Obito takes nonsense about how he regrets what he has done, and Naruto's way being right!

the others are stupid enough to forgive him without any punishment, and will act as if he did nothing.  

I guess.

Edit: and more Rin stuff.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Oct 22, 2013)

takL said:


> No way.
> there was few peep maddy knew in the clan.
> And its the clan maddy wanted to protect.



Who did Madara know in the clan when the massacre happened?

And he turned his back on the clan when the clan abandoned him.



RockSauron said:


> I don't think either Madara or Obito planned the massacre. I think Obito was just checking out Rin's grave from the shadows, when Kakashi said Kushina was to give birth soon, which was shown, and then he just decided on a whim to attack the village. Why? Probably because the Nine Tails seal was weakest there and he would need it... eventually. And he attacked the village because, well, he hasn't exactly shown restraint in his current battle against people who'd oppose his dream. He hasn't killed many, sure, but not for a lack of trying. So yeah, it looks to me like the Nine Tails attack was done on a whim once he heard Kushina was to give birth and wasn't planned by either of them.
> 
> Even if Madara did plan that and Rin's death, it just would go against what Kishi is trying to convey if every bad thing is tied to one man. Madara and Obito's whole thing is that bad shit happens from all sides, and the only way to get rid of bad shit is to make a dream. Having all the bad shit the fault of one man would go against that, so I don't think either of those will happen.



I find it really hard to believe that the attack on Konoha was totally random.

As for everything being tied to one man...Nagato, Obito, and Madara have highest kill counts, and Madara manipulated and/or trained both.


----------



## Scarlet Ammo (Oct 22, 2013)

Ultimate Bijuu said:


> What ? I dont even need to read the chapter to know he will say " i belive in you naruto uzumaki "



Believing doesn't necessarily mean he's redeemed. Just that he converted. I'm talking about something like Rinne Tensei, committing suicide to rid of the juubi temporarily(though Naruto wouldn't allow that since he wants to save the bijuu), or attacking Madara.


----------



## Sango-chan (Oct 22, 2013)

I predict some Rookie action!


----------



## Jad (Oct 22, 2013)

This chapter, and we all know it, is going to be talking. All of it is going to be talking. One big crappy friends, harmony, peace and rainbows talk. In-fact, this may be the talk no jutsu chapter.

Obito is going to question Naruto and Sasuke on how he broke the sword, and how he was defeated. They will respond with words that describe feelings, emotion and friendship. Obito will start to resist and talk about his feelings and what drove him over the edge.

Naruto will get pissed at Madara for pushing him, then they will talk while Hashirama listens. Hashirama may feel a bit guilty for how Madara turned out. Naruto will do his angry scene where he starts yelling at Madara, saying he is the true enemy. Obviously Sasuke is going to be shown with that same dumb looking face and stare.

End of chapter Madara does something to Obito.

All talking chapter.


----------



## Klue (Oct 22, 2013)

Prepare for a chapter long flashback, gentlemen.


----------



## Arya Stark (Oct 22, 2013)

Incoming Rin flashbacks


----------



## Turrin (Oct 22, 2013)

So chapter filled with Obito angst is pretty much the consensus?


----------



## Jad (Oct 22, 2013)

There should be no doubt that this chapter is going to be a discussion between Obito and Naruto. Naruto trying to coerce Obito into stopping the Moons eye plan. Which at that point Madara might interrupt them.


----------



## αce (Oct 22, 2013)

> So chapter filled with Obito angst is pretty much the consensus?



have fun reviewing the garbage that is about to come out soon


----------



## UchihaSage (Oct 22, 2013)

Naruto 652: Nohara Rin

Naruto: Uchiha Obito. 
Sasuke: Naruto, I will end him.
Naruto: Sasuke, this man killed my parents, he is the reason why I have the Kyuubi inside of me.
Sasuke: Naruto. I understand.

Madara: My trump card is ready.
Shodai: Madara, don't do this. It's not too late. We can settle matters. 
Madara: If you can stand up now, then I'll consider it a settled matter.
Shodai: I can't stand up.
Madara: Then prepare for the eternal dream.

Naruto: Sasuke, this man is just like me. I can't let him die so easily. 
Sasuke: Naruto, do as you please. I'm going after the real Madara. You stay here and do whatever you want with this degenerate.

Shodai: Ino, patch me through to Sasuke and Naruto.
Shodai: Boys, Madara has stolen my sage chakra abilities. He has my body and cells inside of him that can control the sage chakra. I am afraid to say that my sage mode has far more endurance than even your own. I can feel what he's doing. He's using a woman that has been infused with my own cells to create his own God tree
Naruto&Sasuke: ??
Madara: Hashirama, Naruto, Sasuke, I can hear everything. This is Rin. She is the girl who Uchiha Obito loves. I took her all those years ago and infused her body with Hashirama's cells. She has been growing since then. She is a power to rival the God Tree itself. And she obeys my will alone.

Rin: Madara-sama. Please accept my humble service.
Obito: Rin. Rin is alive. Madara took Rin. I can't do a thing for her like this. I can make the moon's eye plan come true. I can't accept this reality.

Minato: Naruto! That's my student Rin. In this condition, controlled by Madara's mokuton techniques, she is beyond dangerous! 
Madara: Rin! Do as you are commanded! Clear the battlefield! 
Rin: Great Earthquake No Jutsu.


----------



## Kujiro Anodite (Oct 22, 2013)

I predict Rookies, Naruto and Sasuke raped by Obito's new ass-pull form inside the pit of doom, while the rest of the alliance charges for the tree... AGAIN!


----------



## eyeknockout (Oct 22, 2013)

more obito alternate reality where we get to see obito grow old with rin (who stays 10 years old forever).


----------



## Sagitta (Oct 22, 2013)

Evil Rin for the win.


----------



## KAKASHI10 (Oct 22, 2013)

KAKASHI10 will say that next chapter will have hashirama


----------



## Xeros (Oct 22, 2013)

Page 1:

Obito is on the floor heavily injured.

Page 2:

Naruto and Rookies look down upon him

Page 3:

Naruto tell Obito to give up

Page 4:

Obito says "You Pass"

Page 5:

Alliance cheer for Naruto.

Page 6:

Kakashi: This was a major test, naruto, you are now a chunin.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Oct 22, 2013)

Madara's big secret is that Rin never lived at all.


----------



## Jeαnne (Oct 22, 2013)

PikaCheeka said:


> Madara's big secret is that Rin never lived at all.


it was all a genjutsu


----------



## MYJC (Oct 22, 2013)

-Obito is on the ground defeated and dying
-Kakashi returns from Kamui dimension
-Naruto and Kakashi give a friendship speech or whatever
-Probably some short Obito flashbacks
-Chapter ends with Madara somehow taking the Juubi from Obito


----------



## Joakim3 (Oct 22, 2013)

Jeαnne said:


> it was all a genjutsu



Madara: "Since when were you under the impression you weren't under _Mugen: Tsukuyomai_"


----------



## Klue (Oct 22, 2013)

Once Obito is removed, the real battle will begin. Madara manages to entertain even while spamming Susano'o.


----------



## Jeαnne (Oct 22, 2013)

Klue said:


> Once Obito is removed, the real battle will begin. Madara manages to entertain even while spamming Susano'o.


we will get a PS x PS sky battle, it will be beautiful ...they will clash with the full moon in the background


----------



## Kyuubi Naruto (Oct 22, 2013)

Considering Naruto and Sasuke are likely done fighting after putting their all into that last attack, I'm going to guess if Obito's actually defeated here we will begin the conversion. Naruto will get a chance to talk to Obito about everything which will take a good amount of chapters to get through. We will hear about everything relating to him including the Sasuke stuff. 

Everyone else will be focusing on Madara and the tree. After seeing Obito's condition, Madara will attempt to head towards the tree since the fruit will begin to sprout soon. Hashirama and Tobirama will continue their Madara fight.

Kakashi will pop up chapters from now when he's needed. He's away simply to save someone in dire need like he always does.


----------



## vered (Oct 22, 2013)

We'll get colored pages in addition and hopefully the chapter itself will be worth it.
Perhaps  we'll be lucky to get them a bit earlier compared to last weeks chapter.


----------



## ChickenPotPie (Oct 22, 2013)

Kyuubi Naruto said:


> Kakashi will pop up chapters from now when he's needed. He's away simply to save someone in dire need like he always does.



He's going to save Sakura because that's how Kishi designs all his dramatic entrances.


----------



## Kyuubi Naruto (Oct 22, 2013)

ChickenPotPie said:


> He's going to save Sakura because that's how Kishi designs all his dramatic entrances.



Could be. Kakashi always arrives late and always when someone's in trouble. Next time we see him someone will be close to biting the dust and he will pop up. Could be Sakura. Could be Naruto or Sasuke. 

Honestly though I'd prefer it being Obito. Obito saved Kakashi back in the day now maybe Kakashi can repay him back. After seeing Kakashi still save him after everything that's happened and hearing Naruto's words Obito finishes converting and then redeems himself before passing away.


----------



## Gabe (Oct 22, 2013)

Madara. Kills obito as he is about to revive everyone he killed.


----------



## Jeαnne (Oct 22, 2013)

vered said:


> We'll get colored pages in addition and hopefully the chapter itself will be worth it.
> Perhaps  we'll be lucky to get them a bit earlier compared to last weeks chapter.


what color part are we getting though?

Because I was under the impression that it would be only the shonen jump cover...


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 22, 2013)

Kyuubi Naruto said:


> Considering Naruto and Sasuke are likely done fighting after putting their all into that last attack, I'm going to guess if Obito's actually defeated here we will begin the conversion. Naruto will get a chance to talk to Obito about everything which will take a good amount of chapters to get through. We will hear about everything relating to him including the Sasuke stuff.
> 
> Everyone else will be focusing on Madara and the tree. After seeing Obito's condition, Madara will attempt to head towards the tree since the fruit will begin to sprout soon. Hashirama and Tobirama will continue their Madara fight.
> 
> Kakashi will pop up chapters from now when he's needed. He's away simply to save someone in dire need like he always does.


I'm still not seeing how Naruto would even WANT to convert Obito. He himself confirmed Obito is pure evil through past interactions and there's no change in his negative emotion sensings there. Kakashi already gave up on obito and Naruto's been trying to kill him for nearly 100 chapters straight.

Naruto wouldn't be the one to convert him at all. He has no reason to. Unlike Nagato, they aren't sibling disciples of the same master. Unlike Nagato, Obito admitted to Naruto's face he doesn't care for peace, just power and control. Unlike Nagato, Obito's actions have shown he is completely irredeemable. Unlike Nagato, Obito's personality pisses Naruto off to no end. Unlike Nagato, Obito killed Naruto's parents, enslaved the Biju, started the Fourth Shinobi World War, killed Neji right in front of him and mocked him for it, killed Shikaku, Inoichi, Ao, and Mabui and destroyed all of Kumogakure...

Just because Naruto managed to convert Nagato, doesn't mean he'll even attempt with Obito. Obito has shown he doesn't even want redemption, laughed off all attempts, and showed Naruto he really is just a selfish monster.


----------



## Gabe (Oct 22, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> I'm still not seeing how Naruto would even WANT to convert Obito. He himself confirmed Obito is pure evil through past interactions and there's no change in his negative emotion sensings there. Kakashi already gave up on obito and Naruto's been trying to kill him for nearly 100 chapters straight.
> 
> Naruto wouldn't be the one to convert him at all. He has no reason to.



But it will happen obito is not pure evil no one seems to be in this manga. Obito is getting converted. He was a hero in the past and will be redeemed.


----------



## ShinobisWill (Oct 23, 2013)

I think Obito's death/fall will be prolonged for at least 3 chapters as Madara kicks his plan into action. 

Get the feeling Kakashi still won't come back quite yet. Maybe the next chapter after this. (and by this I mean he won't get out of the dimension yet, not that he won't appear in the chapter at all)


----------



## Kyuubi Naruto (Oct 23, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> I'm still not seeing how Naruto would even WANT to convert Obito. He himself confirmed Obito is pure evil through past interactions and there's no change in his negative emotion sensings there. Kakashi already gave up on obito and Naruto's been trying to kill him for nearly 100 chapters straight.
> 
> Naruto wouldn't be the one to convert him at all. He has no reason to. Unlike Nagato, they aren't sibling disciples of the same master. Unlike Nagato, Obito admitted to Naruto's face he doesn't care for peace, just power and control. Unlike Nagato, Obito's actions have shown he is completely irredeemable. Unlike Nagato, Obito's personality pisses Naruto off to no end. Unlike Nagato, Obito killed Naruto's parents, enslaved the Biju, started the Fourth Shinobi World War, killed Neji right in front of him and mocked him for it, killed Shikaku, Inoichi, Ao, and Mabui and destroyed all of Kumogakure...
> 
> Just because Naruto managed to convert Nagato, doesn't mean he'll even attempt with Obito. Obito has shown he doesn't even want redemption, laughed off all attempts, and showed Naruto he really is just a selfish monster.



Naruto didn't even want to convert Nagato and look at what happened. Nagato killed Jiraiya, Naruto wanted to kill him, he hated him. Naruto's never wanted to convert the majority of people he's converted through the manga. It happens naturally whether Naruto wants it or not. He just faces an opponent, defeats them, talks to them and that's it. He's never focused on trying to change a character. The same thing will apply here. 

We know Obito will be converted based on the kind of character Kishimoto's portrayed him to be. Since he was revealed to be the "anti-Naruto" we've known this was going to happen. Besides the similarities they both share, we saw Obito attempt to convert Naruto himself mid-war, we saw Obito struggle with understanding Naruto and we also saw Obito himself not understanding why he was imagining what could have been last chapter. He's already mid-conversion. It always happens with Naruto. 

You're assuming Naruto actually tries to convert these characters when it happens naturally. Based on what we've seen from Obito it's clear he's going to be converted. There's not 1 character in this manga that's proven to be "pure evil" even Orochimaru. Obito's not the one.


----------



## Rose (Oct 23, 2013)

UchihaSage said:


> Naruto 652: Nohara Rin
> 
> Naruto: Uchiha Obito.
> Sasuke: Naruto, I will end him.
> ...


This is happening. I feel it in my joints. It hurts.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 23, 2013)

Kyuubi Naruto said:


> Naruto didn't even want to convert Nagato and look at what happened. Nagato killed Jiraiya, Naruto wanted to kill him, he hated him. Naruto's never wanted to convert the majority of people he's converted through the manga. It happens naturally whether Naruto wants it or not. He just faces an opponent, defeats them, talks to them and that's it. He's never focused on trying to change a character. The same thing will apply here.
> 
> We know Obito will be converted based on the kind of character Kishimoto's portrayed him to be. Since he was revealed to be the "anti-Naruto" we've known this was going to happen. Besides the similarities they both share, we saw Obito attempt to convert Naruto himself mid-war, we saw Obito struggle with understanding Naruto and we also saw Obito himself not understanding why he was imagining what could have been last chapter. He's already mid-conversion. It always happens with Naruto.
> 
> You're assuming Naruto actually tries to convert these characters when it happens naturally. Based on what we've seen from Obito it's clear he's going to be converted. There's not 1 character in this manga that's proven to be "pure evil" even Orochimaru. Obito's not the one.


But in the Nagato situation, Naruto at least wanted to know _why_ a fellow student of Jiraiya could become someone like Pain. When has Naruto ever expressed anything other than disgust on Obito? Or even asked "How the hell did you get this way?"


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Oct 23, 2013)

Madara notices for a moment the attack Naruto & Sasuke have landed on Obito and realizes he has to obtain Hashirama's Senjutsu soon before Obito dies given he needs him to be alive in order to take over the Mugen Tsukuyomi. He also starts to acknowledge the potential threat those two can pose together. During this, Hashirama begins to feel tired and wonders if that black rod coming out from Madara's hand is affecting him someway.

Meanwhile despite the damaged inflicted on Obito, the Shinju is still standing and not a sign of it weakening is showing.

Kakashi finally returns from Kamui land and reunites with his students. Has an inner monologue about how they are finally doing the exact opposite of what they did in the very beginning when Team 7 was formed.

Obito's wound starts to slowly regenerate, Kakashi asks him if he has finally understood what a ninja's void filled with the support of comrades is capable of doing. Obito brushes him off saying he shouldn't waste his breath on him with those teachings, then begins taunting him about how he should target those words to Sasuke instead and how even a heart filled of friends can quickly be drained by those very same ones, like how it happened with his father, Sakumo, who's own friends later looked down on him for putting their safety above a mission.

Sasuke speaks out saying he's had enough of him and that he's ending his delusional goal with his EMS. Obito smirks and does a couple of handseals while asking him if what he's about to see is a delusion. Followed by that he performs the Edo Tensei jutsu and many caskets appear around them, and as they open up, the fallen Uchiha clan from the massacre comes out.


----------



## rac585 (Oct 23, 2013)

hopefully there are no more reveals about rin. if it turned out she suffered being kep alive by madara's tree this whole time, obito would bluescreen so hard to the point of naruto and crew not even needing to defeat him anymore.

he'd just lay on the ground drooling until the end of time.

what a climactic ending.


----------



## Kyuubi Naruto (Oct 23, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> But in the Nagato situation, Naruto at least wanted to know _why_ a fellow student of Jiraiya could become someone like Pain. When has Naruto ever expressed anything other than disgust on Obito? Or even asked "How the hell did you get this way?"



So just because Naruto wants to know why a character's a certain way that means they will be converted? That didn't happen with Chiyo, that didn't happen with Gaara, that didn't happen to a lot of characters that Naruto's converted. That was just personal interest. You can't judge a character's "conversion rate" based on how interested Naruto is in their history. When a character's going to be converted you can tell and Obito's definitely going to be one of them. The moment it was said he's the "anti-Naruto" that made it clear. It's not based upon what Naruto thinks, it's based upon what the character thinks. 

Obito's right in line to be converted.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 23, 2013)

Kyuubi Naruto said:


> So just because Naruto wants to know why a character's a certain way that means they will be converted? That didn't happen with Chiyo, that didn't happen with Gaara, that didn't happen to a lot of characters that Naruto's converted. That was just personal interest. You can't judge a character's "conversion rate" based on how interested Naruto is in their history. When a character's going to be converted you can tell and Obito's definitely going to be one of them. The moment it was said he's the "anti-Naruto" that made it clear. It's not based upon what Naruto thinks, it's based upon what the character thinks.
> 
> Obito's right in line to be converted.


Naruto's learning of people's pasts makes him convert them. Neji, Gaara, Chiyo, etc. Naruto's always had some interest. Nagato is the biggest example due to the history they both had with Jiraiya. Obito, despite becoming the 'anti-Naruto' still has rejected every offer and attempt for redemption or conversion. He even laughed the notion off right at Kakashi's face-Kakashi being the ONLY person who tried due to their past history.


----------



## Kyuubi Naruto (Oct 23, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Naruto's learning of people's pasts makes him convert them. Neji, Gaara, Chiyo, etc. Naruto's always had some interest. Nagato is the biggest example due to the history they both had with Jiraiya. Obito, despite becoming the 'anti-Naruto' still has rejected every offer and attempt for redemption or conversion. He even laughed the notion off right at Kakashi's face-Kakashi being the ONLY person who tried due to their past history.



The entire reason Obito's tried to listen and understand Naruto is because he sees the old him inside of Naruto. He sees the Will of Fire and he sees Naruto get up from everything repeatedly. He sees Naruto attempt to fight for his friends no matter what. After everything that's happened Naruto continues to fight and that in itself is proof he will be converted. You say he's rejected redemption but the fact is that through the entire battle with Naruto he keeps knocking him down and he's still trying to get him. That is what's going to cause his conversion. You can't say "Obito change" because there's no reason to. If he sees a reason and if he sees the fire continue to fight on (like with Naruto) he will eventually change. We even see this in chapter 628 with Obito trying to understand Naruto's ways. He's been doing that the entire time. It's not about past history. It's about the future. Again, given the fact he's been trying to understand Naruto since the beginning of this battle it's clear he will be converted. 

Chiyo was converted because of Naruto's words and actions towards Gaara, he didn't try to convert her. She saw the kind of character he was and naturally converted. Gaara converted because of Naruto's attitude and actions. That's basically how most of the characters in this series converts when it deals with Naruto. Nagato is a special case because not only did it involve Naruto's actions and attitude but Naruto tied that into Jiraiya's book and the deeper they went into the "war and peace" talks Nagato believed. Just because Naruto learns about a character's past doesn't make him convert them, that rarely happens. Like my first post about this states, Naruto doesn't try to convert characters (sans Sasuke). That's a severe misunderstanding the majority of people have. The characters convert themselves based on Naruto's speeches and actions. 

You keep bringing up Naruto being interested in them but that's not true because for the majority of the characters he's converted they're converted in the same way: they see Naruto's attitude, actions, understand who he is and then they become converted. That's it. It's not about what Naruto does or what Naruto wants. It's always about what they see in him as a character that forces them to switch sides.


----------



## BlinkST (Oct 23, 2013)

SuperSaiyanBro said:


> Naruto's learning of people's pasts makes him convert them. Neji, Gaara, Chiyo, etc. Naruto's always had some interest. Nagato is the biggest example due to the history they both had with Jiraiya. Obito, despite becoming the 'anti-Naruto' still has rejected every offer and attempt for redemption or conversion. He even laughed the notion off right at Kakashi's face-Kakashi being the ONLY person who tried due to their past history.


Obito's getting converted bro Don't argue with Jay-Z


----------



## Weapon (Oct 23, 2013)

I've been telling myself for the past two months that "This week's chapter is going to be the chapter I've been waiting for!" 

I'm certain, that today is the day.


----------



## UchihaSage (Oct 23, 2013)

Madara uses Kuchiyose: Nohara Rin
She obliterates most of the alliance!


----------



## Jeαnne (Oct 23, 2013)

i want Madara...just...Madara


----------



## Csdabest (Oct 23, 2013)

Madara one shots Naruto K.Oing him setting up Sasuke vs Madara


----------



## Revolution (Oct 23, 2013)

Sennin of Hardwork said:


> Madara notices for a moment the attack Naruto & Sasuke have landed on Obito and realizes he has to obtain Hashirama's Senjutsu soon before Obito dies given he needs him to be alive in order to take over the Mugen Tsukuyomi. He also starts to acknowledge the potential threat those two can pose together. During this, Hashirama begins to feel tired and wonders if that black rod coming out from Madara's hand is affecting him someway.
> 
> Meanwhile despite the damaged inflicted on Obito, the Shinju is still standing and not a sign of it weakening is showing.
> 
> ...


----------



## atenzor (Oct 23, 2013)

Madara one shots everyone, manga renamed to Madara


----------



## Kyuubi Naruto (Oct 23, 2013)

Today is Hashirama's birthday as well so I'm guessing we will get more Hashirama vs Madara. At least something Hashirama that's not shown in a negative light that is.


----------



## Animaeon (Oct 23, 2013)

I'll admit, it's been a while since I've wanted a chapter to come out this badly


----------



## Overhaul (Oct 23, 2013)

Why not,Minato did get brought back to life on his birthday.


----------



## UchihaSage (Oct 23, 2013)

Will the chapter suck?


----------



## αce (Oct 23, 2013)

> Will the chapter suck?



Unless Madara does something by the end, it's almost guaranteed to be the breaking of Obito's temper tantrum. So yes - it's going to be bad.


----------



## Jayaraman MinatoItachi (Oct 23, 2013)

UchihaSage said:


> Will the chapter suck?



No doubt about it. It will or our fellow narutoforums people make us to feel like that


----------



## First Tsurugi (Oct 23, 2013)

Somebody is getting blown the fuck out this chapter, I'm sure of it.


----------



## Jeαnne (Oct 23, 2013)

Hashirama will sing rolling in the deep to Madara after watching Naruto and Sasuke last chapter


----------



## Csdabest (Oct 23, 2013)

Hopefully the chapter is a long one. I want alot of stuff to happen. Lets get this plot moving


----------



## ZiBi21 (Oct 23, 2013)

the development is kinda easy to see.... obito will start to change his mind about all that then he gets stabbed by madara with the rod taking his position..... naruto gets to talk last lines with obito.... and gets after madara maybe with help of other biju chakra parts

but for now it will be mostly another set up chapter... I wouldnt be supprised if this round was gokage vs madara as obito kinda lost last chapter


----------



## Rosi (Oct 23, 2013)

UchihaSage said:


> Will the chapter suck?



It will have lots of Obito in it, so ofcourse it won't. Unless Kishi spoils the fun.


----------



## T-Bag (Oct 23, 2013)

just get obito the fuck out. and something interesting with madara please.


----------



## ATastyMuffin (Oct 23, 2013)

It's up.


----------



## Jayaraman MinatoItachi (Oct 23, 2013)

I want madara. Had enough of obito


----------



## Shock Therapy (Oct 23, 2013)

oh my fucking god. this chapter literally gave me lung cancer


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Oct 23, 2013)

Nice color spread.  Glad to see that Obito's Juubi Jinchuuriki form is confirmed as in the color pages from chapter 638.

*goes to read*


----------



## UchihaSage (Oct 23, 2013)

Madara !

Madara !

Madara !

Madara !

Madara !

Madara !

Madara !

Madara !

Madara !

Madara !

Madara !

Madara !

Madara !

Madara !

Madara !

Madara !

Madara !

Madara !

Madara !


----------



## ATastyMuffin (Oct 23, 2013)

So... the color spread was nice, I guess. Every standing member of the Alliance pulling away the Ten Tails' chakra, really reminded me of Naruto's clones doing the same to Kurama. Very last panel has a semi-badness look of Naruto's face.

Other than that, ugh. Completely putrid. Cheesier than yesterday's fucking Kraft Dinner.


----------



## Rosi (Oct 23, 2013)

Dat spread


----------



## Revolution (Oct 23, 2013)

Damn, that chapter is too shot.  

At least we are about to get many answers


----------



## Rai (Oct 23, 2013)

Minato.


----------



## Rosi (Oct 23, 2013)

Dat panel with NaruSasu and KakaObi


----------



## Kujiro Anodite (Oct 23, 2013)

I can't load pages 8 and 11


----------



## First Tsurugi (Oct 23, 2013)

Another week of SSM12 insisting something won't happen only for the manga to prove him wrong, lol.


----------



## Arya Stark (Oct 23, 2013)

I called something like that happening when Obito became Jinchuuriki :


----------



## Abz (Oct 23, 2013)

this chapter 

........Obito even knew what was coming....

_"no ...not me....stay away from me !!!!!"

*I'M GOING TO GET TNJ'd*_


----------



## Addy (Oct 23, 2013)

i made fun of it last week but i still thought that it might be relevant 

my thread was merged here? but i had a serious question. where is the sword  since we last saw it?


----------



## Dragonus Nesha (Oct 23, 2013)

Addy said:


> where is the sword  since we last saw it?


It breaks and Obito lets go of it. Much like his shield.


----------



## ch1p (Oct 23, 2013)

Alliance no Jutsu 

The pacing is horrid.


----------



## Zen-aku (Oct 23, 2013)

*Don't Care What the Haters say.*

I Quite Like this and  the Last Chapter.

So Much Of the plot and Naruto's Development Has Been Tied to The Relationships he's made, Have him Straight up Weaponize them against Obito who Is The Antithesis, is Really Epic to see.

Of course Naruto is Gonna Attempt a TNJ it said in story to be one of his Strongest aspects. So Far it's definitely gonna be done better then it was with Nagato.


----------



## eurytus (Oct 23, 2013)

the much dreaded TnJ chapters finally come, wonder how long it'll take....
Can't believe the fight ends like this, they only made like 5 moves or something


----------



## Rosi (Oct 23, 2013)

Naruto calling Obito his senpai


----------



## Klue (Oct 23, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Naruto's learning of people's pasts makes him convert them. Neji, Gaara, Chiyo, etc. Naruto's always had some interest. Nagato is the biggest example due to the history they both had with Jiraiya. Obito, despite becoming the 'anti-Naruto' still has rejected every offer and attempt for redemption or conversion. He even laughed the notion off right at Kakashi's face-Kakashi being the ONLY person who tried due to their past history.


----------



## The Faceless Man (Oct 23, 2013)

Dragonus Nesha said:


> It breaks and Obito lets go of it. Much like his shield.



free weapons ?


----------



## Big Bob (Oct 23, 2013)

Should have gone to specsavers.


----------



## Red Raptor (Oct 23, 2013)

Zen-aku said:


> I Quite Like this and  the Last Chapter.
> 
> So Much Of the plot and Naruto's Development Has Been Tied to The Relationships he's made, Have him Straight up Weaponize them against Obito who Is The Antithesis, is Really Epic to see.
> 
> Of course Naruto is Gonna Attempt a TNJ it said in story to be one of his Strongest aspects. So Far it's definitely gonna be done better then it was with Nagato.



Wow great! One out of 100 Readers support the way Kishit is going with his story. Bravo!

That said and done with, god the pacing is so AWESOME


----------



## Master Sephiroth (Oct 23, 2013)

This is gonna be a re-post from another forum but...

Alright, I'll take it. Obito's about to get TnJ'd, so it's almost time for Madara to step in (the sooner the better!).

Interesting that the tug of war came back. Wasn't quite expecting that. *THANK GOD* Naruto is not getting all 9 Bijuus (for now). 

Hey, the Shinobi Alliance had a use in helping the tug of war. Yay fodder.

Hmm, I actually like the bit where Naruto sees Obito's memories and genuinely feels for him. And of course, right on queue, the Sauce is there to help him. 

Overall, decent. At least we got some plot progression. The reason I say that is because the tug of war itself could have taken up a whole chapter or two depending on how Kishi wanted to do it.


----------



## NarutoShion4ever (Oct 23, 2013)

Fusion said:


> But the things that happened to Nagato that made him how he was were events that came as a product of war and the shinobi system. There is currently no reason to believe Obito or Madara manipulated any of those events.
> 
> What Nagato stood for didn't change, he simply wasn't aware of Tsuki no Me.




We know that Madara implanted the Rinnegan in Nagato. We know that Nagato survived a few times only thanks to the Rinnegan. We know that Jiraiya taught the Ame Orphans because he saw the Rinnegan, although it's not the only reason. We know that Obito taught Nagato about the Rinnegan. We know that Nagato didn't know about the Moon's Eye Plan. We know that Nagato was expected to revive Madara, but does Nagato seem like a person who would revive Madara willingly? It's an issue of believability. If Nagato's life was manipulated almost from the start by having the Rinnegan implanted, and at the end of his life Nagato didn't know the true plan, why then would everything between those two events not be manipulated? We have no evidence that it was, but at the same time we have no evidence that it wasn't. That's the problem when a story reveals the existence of a Grand Manipulator, because it continuously forces a reader to ask a simple question: "Did this happen naturally, or was this orchestrated by the Grand Manipulator?"

Obito's story is better in that way, because it's very unlikely that Madara manipulated his life before he ended up in that cave. But everything that came afterwards could very well be orchestrated by Madara. Rin's death could have been the result of war, but the oddness of her being forced to become a jinchuriki raises serious doubts. The one aspect that works in Obito's favour is that he seems to be more like an apprentice of Madara. It affects believability which will then affect how much you will emotionally invest in a character.


----------



## SageEnergyMode (Oct 23, 2013)

Long story short, I think the chapter was incredible. I know some people don't like it, but I don't care. I love seeing Naruto be the man. He's literally talking to Obito, the man who planned so much, and who caused so much, and who wielded so much power, like just another conquered opponent who was stupid enough underestimate Naruto.

Naruto is the man, and I love it!


----------



## vered (Oct 23, 2013)

Master Sephiroth said:


> This is gonna be a re-post from another forum but...
> 
> Alright, I'll take it. Obito's about to get TnJ'd, so it's almost time for Madara to step in (the sooner the better!).
> 
> ...



He is about to get 6 bijuus,thats more than enough as it is, and would make him a 7 bijuus host which is the closest to actually being the juubi Jin and as a result being overpwered beyond measure. Unless there is somekind of twist  with Madara taking over i just dont see how Kishi will find a way to keep the balance of powers in check with the Sasuke/Naruto fight being reserved for the end of the manga.


----------



## PsionStorm (Oct 23, 2013)

This was a great chapter.  I just think people hate everything when they diss all of these chapters.  There's no real flaw to this one, it's great!


----------



## zuul (Oct 23, 2013)

I'm liking the AU.


----------



## Rai (Oct 23, 2013)

Juubi + RS = disappoint.


----------



## NarutoShion4ever (Oct 23, 2013)

vered said:


> He is about to get 6 bijuus,thats more than enough as it is, and would make him a 7 bijuus host which is the closest to actually being the juubi Jin and as a result being overpwered beyond measure. Unless there is somekind of twist  with Madara taking over i just dont see how Kishi will find a way to keep the balance of powers in check with the Sasuke/Naruto fight being reserved for the end of the manga.




Alternatively, it's the perfect opportunity for Sasuke to steal a Biju 

And who cares about that Naruto/Sasuke fight. Sasuke is going to get the power he needs because of plot. Like he always gets his power-ups.

But Naruto as the jinchuriki of 7 biju is AWESOME 

Besides, Minato still hasn't given him Yin Kurama so there's enough space inside Naruto


----------



## takL (Oct 23, 2013)

epic chapter cover. 

but hash n maddy are no where in the chap lets alone a bombshell revelation.
is this the biju battle the old preview talked of?


----------



## eurytus (Oct 23, 2013)

NarutoShion4ever said:


> Alternatively, it's the perfect opportunity for Sasuke to steal a Biju
> 
> And who cares about that Naruto/Sasuke fight. Sasuke is going to *get the power he needs because of plot. Like he always gets his power-ups.*
> 
> ...



you mean the same way how Naruto gets his power-up? because of the plot? and he's the protagonist?


----------



## Animaeon (Oct 23, 2013)

takL said:


> epic chapter cover.
> 
> but hash n maddy are no where in the chap lets alone a bombshell revelation.
> is this the biju battle the old preview talked of?




^ That's a possibility. Though it isn't what I had imagined 

It's still odd how the previews were always spot on... and now they're all over the place.


----------



## takL (Oct 23, 2013)

Animaeon said:


> It's still odd how the previews were always spot on... and now they're all over the place.



maybe the editors are trolling us.



PikaCheeka said:


> Who did Madara know in the clan when the massacre happened?
> 
> And he turned his back on the clan when the clan abandoned him.



Obito might have put it as if the clan kicked maddy out but 
according to maddy in hash's flashback they just didnt listen to him.
"no one seems to come with me" said maddy  "im not even trusted by my kinsfolk/own clan _I want to protect_"

Ovbiously that wasnt the main reason maddy had to leave the clan and the village.

and i meant to say there were few(=hardly any) people still alive that  maddy knew in person by the time the massacre took place.

so unless it was vital to achieving his goal, mugentsukuyomi, I doubt the massacre was maddys idea.


----------



## ninjaneko (Oct 23, 2013)

It was enjoyable, albeit unintentionally funny 

*Pros*: 
Team 7 cover:
My darlings <3

Tug or War:
Liked the unexpected return of it, Naruto not getting all the bijuu (yet), and the little guys getting to be actually useful. This time Kishi pulled off the teamwork theme. Also, giant tug of war to defeat the enemy is lawlzy/silly :rofl. Yes, I'm putting that in the pro section because I like a good lawlz. 

Naruto's TNJ:
We knew it was coming; now the time is upon us. I'm just sitting back and enjoying/laughing how futile it is for Obito to escape conversion 

_Naruto_: Open your heart! Let in the light!
_Obito_: No! I don't want it! *angelic music* NOooOooo!
_Naruto_: ♪ YOU ARE MAI FRIEND! AAAAH ♫ *incoming hug*
*Villain!Obito dies in Nauto's arms, and is replaced by Good!Obito*

You could seriously make it into a scary thing. Unassuming smile!Naruto appearing everywhere, wearing down frightened baddies, lolololol.


*Cons*:
Should Kyuubi really be surprised by Naruto at this point? I'm so sick of unnecessary filler praise. That really was the worst part to me.

TNJ:
I don't know, I'm still not quite buying Obito's redemption so far. Why is he regretting things? Because Naruto is reminding him of himself and what could have been? I thought the whole point is that it couldn't have been - an Uchiha would find it hard to be elected leader and what's the point if Rin is dead anyway? Clearly magic friendship from the likes of Kakashi isn't enough to fill his void ;3 

I know in part he's been manipulated and deep down he's just a hurt child who still dreams, and Naruto of all people can understand that, but still... It's just he's so utterly cynical that pure optimism, determination, and sincerity don't seem to be enough of a "cure." At least it's tricky to pull it off, and Kishi isn't quite selling it well enough for me.

A few punches and a sincere speech worked in Part 1, but I'm a little more discriminating now. Even Zabuza didn't stop being a psycho, just he showed caring for Haku.


----------



## EvilGood2 (Oct 23, 2013)

It was a decent Chapter. I find it funny how Obito is so unwillingly getting sucked into TNJ. But, it was predictable by the vast majority anyway. Ever since he was revealed really. I felt, it was still alright handled considering his situation of slowly transitioning into being a good soul again. It may not be a popular opinion (and less likely) but it would be interesting if Obito somehow managed to survive at the end. Yet trolling us again. It would be a lesson that it is never too late to turn to the positive side again. If done correctly, it would have been ok. Just so we could get a different outcome instead of always TNJ=Death.  

I can understand the frustration with the plot being way too predictable at the end. It has been dragging on for too long, and we (the readers) finally want something different. Please. 

I hope that Madara will appear very soon and I predict that he will of course, reveal how much of a Patsy Obito truly was. But, I'd wait 3-4 chapters until we finally get a turning point.


----------



## Scizor (Oct 23, 2013)

I don't care what anyone else says: the past two chapters were awesome imo.

The Obito stuff is wrapping up and it's wrapping up nicely.


----------



## Obitomo (Oct 23, 2013)

I enjoyed the tug of war, plus the answers covering up how does Shukaku and Gyuuki become attached when Naruto does bot have them, are we seeing a Gaara One Tails thing again!?
That would be pretty cool to be honest, but I think I'd pass on TNJ.
I mean its cool if Nardo kills him or defeats him, but why talk it out with the one who killed your parents and all the ones you have loved. Not only that, Brobito laughs at them, so I'm not really in for Naruto becoming friends again, unless he thinks he can force Brobito to rinne tensei than thats just evil..

But when he said senpai...awwwhwow.


----------



## BeyondTwoSouls (Oct 23, 2013)

i liked that chapter.

FUCKING PREVIEWS !!!!

madara didnt even said a word.

but what wanted kurama to say here:


----------



## PsionStorm (Oct 23, 2013)

This was a great chapter!  I mean, everyone got action, the plot's moving along, there's no true flaws.  People don't seem to like Naruto's forgiveness, but that confuses me since most of the popular shonen manga protagonists share this trait.  Did they expect Naruto to not?  Let's just see where this goes.  This might be a Goku-Buu moment.  Naruto forgives Obito, but has to finish him off.


----------



## Ambience (Oct 23, 2013)

I knew I'd find something all too funny.


----------



## DeK3iDE (Oct 23, 2013)

PsionStorm said:


> *This was a great chapter!  I mean, everyone got action, the plot's moving along, there's no true flaws.*  People don't seem to like Naruto's forgiveness, but that confuses me since most of the popular shonen manga protagonists share this trait.  Did they expect Naruto to not?  Let's just see where this goes.  This might be a Goku-Buu moment.  Naruto forgives Obito, but has to finish him off.


​


----------



## Hossaim (Oct 23, 2013)

PsionStorm said:


> This was a great chapter!  I mean, everyone got action, the plot's moving along, there's no true flaws.  People don't seem to like Naruto's forgiveness, but that confuses me since most of the popular shonen manga protagonists share this trait.  Did they expect Naruto to not?  Let's just see where this goes.  This might be a Goku-Buu moment.  Naruto forgives Obito, but has to finish him off.



Madara isn't killing everyone.
Naruto talked.

2 chapter breaking flaws right there.

Also, Kishi stated many times that Obito is "not like Nagato:, and yet here Naruto is treating him exactly the same way.


----------



## Xeros (Oct 23, 2013)

Noticing a few sexuals in this chapter, I am a pervert.


----------



## ch1p (Oct 23, 2013)

notice the background pattern. it's not senju and uchiha, it's uzumaki and uchiha. did he fuck up, is this referencing only naruto and sasuke, or is he retconning uzumaki into what senju represented until now (the older brother)


----------



## Xeros (Oct 23, 2013)

i don't know what dis shit is, but when I used google trans it rustled my jimmies



> 章653ナルト
> 
> サスケの死、ナルトの怒り、そして最後に..！！


----------



## EvilGood2 (Oct 23, 2013)

Xeros said:


> i don't know what dis shit is, but when I used google trans it rustled my jimmies





> Death at the end of Sasuke, and anger, of Naruto ..! !




Considering the manga's pace.. Sasuke dying the next Chapter would have been quite a troll move considering Kishi.  



Now we have to wait an extra week... 

*Spoiler*: __ 



I truly doubt next Chapter will be any more significant than this weeks.


----------



## Revolution (Oct 24, 2013)

5



> I didn?t want to wake up. I was having a much better time asleep. And that?s really sad. It was almost like a reverse nightmare, like when you wake up from a nightmare you?re so relieved. I woke up into a nightmare."
> 
> _Ned Vizzini, It?s Kind of a Funny Story _



I think the only reason OBITO regrets everything now is because he LOST and did not get to go to his moonlit dreamworld.


----------



## ShinobisWill (Oct 24, 2013)

Sarahmint said:


> 5
> 
> 
> 
> I think the only reason OBITO regrets everything now is because he LOST and did not get to go to his moonlit dreamworld.



You do realize this is Naruto, right? The story where no villain is truly evil?


----------



## Revolution (Oct 24, 2013)

It has nothing to do with the "evil" label, you do realize that, right?


----------



## Big Bob (Oct 24, 2013)

ShinobisWill said:


> You do realize this is Naruto, right? The story where no villain is truly evil?



Dun argue wiff Sarah 

The chapter was alright I guess, hopefully doesn't lead to 2+ chapters of TNJ.


----------



## Selva (Oct 24, 2013)

i... honestly felt so sad about obito in this chapter.
i really did.

what the fuck did you do to me, kishi?


----------



## King Jamal (Oct 24, 2013)

My bitchass take on the chapter this week (5) CNN's Jake Tapper exposes their bias during 2016 Election coverage "we need to win these states" - YouTube


----------



## Xeros (Oct 25, 2013)

So now that Obito lose control of tree, we won't have to worry about 15 minutes anymore?  . 

So now we will just see TNJ and no action?


----------



## NW (Oct 25, 2013)

Hossaim said:


> Also, it's been stated many times that Obito is "not like Nagato", and yet here Naruto is treating him exactly the same way.


Obito hasn't been converted yet, now has he? You're jumping to conclusions.

Also, Naruto just saw Obito's memories, and he realized that Obito WASN'T the monster he and everyone else thought he was.



Ambience said:


> I knew I'd find something all too funny.


TnJ just got a whole lot creepier. 



ch1p said:


> notice the background pattern. it's not senju and uchiha, it's uzumaki and uchiha. did he fuck up, is this referencing only naruto and sasuke, or is he retconning uzumaki into what senju represented until now (the older brother)


Uzumaki branched off from the Senju.


----------



## takL (Oct 26, 2013)

i saw the raw and subtle differences here and there...

Naruto: you said to me you aren't anyone and you dont want to be anyone, didnt ya
Obito: stop it...dont barge into my mind!
Naruto: but actually...you wanted to be Hokage like I do....

Naruto: who knows, there might've been even a case that I was following you...
cos I adore Hokage
Obito: that's the past and my wishfulness I've completely cast off! Stuff like that...
Naruto: then why am I seeing it?
naruto: its no good hiding yourself behind a mask
You were a friend of my teacher Kakashi
a follower of my dad
a relative of sasuke
my senior with the same dream to mine and a shinobi of konoha.
Obito: ....what is this....on earth....what are you trying to do to me?
Naruto: i mean You are OBITO UCHIHA!
I told ya!
That I'll rip the mask off ya without fail!!


----------



## Rosi (Oct 26, 2013)

takL said:


> Obito: ....what is this....on earth....what are you trying to do to me?


 
Poor Obito.


----------



## Majin Lu (Oct 26, 2013)

Obito will be TnJ'ed  it serves him right


----------



## takL (Oct 26, 2013)

"In lies is no trust and lies stop you from getting friends at your back.
and...Lies even stop you from seeing your true self." -itachi after he izanamid kabuto.

in a way obito, trying to delete the facts that are inconvenient for him with mugentsukuyomi is like an izanagi itself while naruto an izanami personified to lead him to accept the facts.


----------



## Xeros (Oct 26, 2013)

Colored Panel is good.


----------



## takL (Oct 26, 2013)

i wonder what sasukes hand is doing to the hokage Obito in that panel?


----------



## Majin Lu (Oct 26, 2013)

That is Obito's hand. At first, it looks as Sasuke's, but that is a left hand.


----------



## takL (Oct 26, 2013)

Majin Lu said:


> That is Obito's hand. At first, it looks as Sasuke's, but that is a left hand.



oh ok but what is he doing? pulling the scarf?


----------



## Majin Lu (Oct 26, 2013)

takL said:


> oh ok but what is he doing? pulling the scarf?


It looks he is pulling his scarf in an "it is getting hot here" way


----------



## Overhaul (Oct 26, 2013)

The sexual tension and chemistry between Nardo and Obito is becoming unbearable.


----------

