# Galactus Vs Lucifer (SMT)



## Demon Of Elru (May 14, 2011)

So how does this go?


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (May 14, 2011)

Does Galactus get his big gun?


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## Demon Of Elru (May 14, 2011)

If you mean the ultimate nullifier, then yes.


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## Amorozov (May 14, 2011)

What is SMT? I can only think of Lucifer Morningstar right now.. any feats for him?


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## Demon Of Elru (May 14, 2011)

Is stands for Shin Megami Tensei, as for feats I'm really not an expert on this game, but I read he can create and control infinite multiverses or somenthing like that, but like I said don't take my word, it would be better to hear the feats from the experts.


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## Disaresta (May 14, 2011)

I dont know about this Lucifer guy, is he universe +?


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## zenieth (May 14, 2011)

he's high multiversal. this could also possibly be a shit storm


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## Fang (May 14, 2011)

Considering who the OP is, that's their intention.


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## Disaresta (May 14, 2011)

Well possible shit storm = possible entertainment


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (May 14, 2011)

Disaresta said:


> Well possible shit storm = possible entertainment



Not in this case.


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## ShiggyDiggyDoo (May 14, 2011)

Galactus nullifies Lucifer.


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## Demon Of Elru (May 15, 2011)

zenieth said:


> he's high multiversal. this could also possibly be a shit storm



So can he beat Galactus?



Fang said:


> Considering who the OP is, that's their intention.



Not sure what you mean with this post, Lucifer like the user above said is high multiversal and Galactus is known for being able to fight people like that, so this isn't a stomp or anything.

Just post each others feats and let people decide who wins.


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## Sasaki Kojirō (May 16, 2011)

Galactus uses the UN GG Lucifer.


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## Orochibuto (May 16, 2011)

If this guy controls infinite multiverses he should be around or higher than IG and IG is able to tank UN.


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## Demon Of Elru (May 16, 2011)

So is this Lucifer equal to the IG?

What feats does he have that put him there?


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## King Hopper (May 16, 2011)

Demon Of Elru said:


> So is this Lucifer equal to the IG?
> 
> What feats does he have that put him there?



The entire Multiverse is a giant chair that he sits on. All of them.


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## Demon Of Elru (May 17, 2011)

> The entire Multiverse is a giant chair that he sits on. All of them.



That doesn't mean he is equal to the Infinity Gauntlet, and I assume that you know what the Infinity Gauntlet is and what it can do cause IG > UN and the UN already can wipe out infinite multiverses, so you better bring feats of Lucifer being close to the Infinity Gauntlet and for that fact to the Ultimate Nullifier.


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## Bender (May 17, 2011)

Orochibuto said:


> If this guy controls infinite multiverses he should be around or higher than IG and IG is able to tank UN.



This

I'd say Lucifer rape stomps 

Especially considering how he put the hurting on Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann


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## Demon Of Elru (May 17, 2011)

> This
> 
> I'd say Lucifer rape stomps
> 
> Especially considering how he put the hurting on Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann



Rape stomps?

And I don't think Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is in SMT so what are you talking about?

Can you post feats of him? specially about how Lucifer = Infinity Gauntlet that > Ultimate Nullifier that can already destroy infinite multiverses.


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## King Hopper (May 17, 2011)

Demon Of Elru said:


> Rape stomps?
> 
> And I don't think Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is in SMT so what are you talking about?
> 
> Can you post feats of him? specially about how Lucifer = Infinity Gauntlet that > Ultimate Nullifier that can already destroy infinite multiverses.



Wages war against a nigh omnipotent on a regular basis. Good enough?


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## Bender (May 17, 2011)

Demon Of Elru said:


> Rape stomps?
> 
> And I don't think Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is in SMT so what are you talking about?



I'm talking about another match Lucifer was in. He beat TTGL.


Ah, my bad I didn't know that this was SMT. In either case Lucifer is multiversal. 



> Can you post feats of him? specially about how Lucifer = Infinity Gauntlet that > Ultimate Nullifier that can already destroy infinite multiverses.



Lucifer is a high class multiversal combatant.


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## Demon Of Elru (May 17, 2011)

King Hopper said:


> Wages war against a nigh omnipotent on a regular basis. Good enough?



Sounds good, *now can you actually bring feats* of Lucifer being equal to the Infinity Gauntlet or even close to the Ultimate nullifier.



Bender said:


> Lucifer is a high class multiversal combatant.



Once again sounds good, but how about some actual feats?


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## Enclave (May 17, 2011)

You cannot be nigh omnipotent, either you are or you aren't.  There's no middle ground.  So please define the powers of the one he wages war against.


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## zenieth (May 17, 2011)

Every split second of every second of every minute of every hour of every day of every month of every year of every millenium of all time, his rival destroys and creates an infinite number of multiverses just to test the faith of a random individual.


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## King Hopper (May 17, 2011)

Enclave said:


> You cannot be nigh omnipotent, either you are or you aren't.  There's no middle ground.  So please define the powers of the one he wages war against.



God. The Christian one. The one who created everything, who's abilities are pretty much word by word from the Bible. Disputing this is only going to stir up a religious shitstorm, but there you have it.


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## Demon Of Elru (May 18, 2011)

King Hopper said:


> God. The Christian one. The one who created everything, who's abilities are pretty much word by word from the Bible. Disputing this is only going to stir up a religious shitstorm, but there you have it.



This isn't God, bring the feats of the god from SMT ergo the one from the game.

@zenieth: can you bring the feat? and no that isn't close to the IG and the UN can wipe out infinite multiverses, so Lucifer isn't going to survive it unlees you bring some actual feats that say otherwise.


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## King Hopper (May 18, 2011)

Demon Of Elru said:


> This isn't God, bring the feats of the god from SMT ergo the one from the game.
> 
> @zenieth: can you bring the feat? and no that isn't close to the IG and the UN can wipe out infinite multiverses, so Lucifer isn't going to survive it unlees you bring some actual feats that say otherwise.



It IS the EXACT same one in the game. Literally. Creationism and everything, that's what SMT is derived from.



> While not being identified as YHVH, it is strongly implied that it can be brought back by the "Great Will", which Kagutsuchi is a part of. Kagutsuchi is responsible for destroying and re-creating thousands of worlds in different times. He is largely responsible for the Conception, where the world is voided into a vortex world, recreating the world according to others' Reasons.



There's more, but I haven't touched SMT in ages.


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## Fang (May 18, 2011)

zenieth said:


> Every split second of every second of every minute of every hour of every day of every month of every year of every millenium of all time, his rival destroys and creates an infinite number of multiverses just to test the faith of a random individual.



You could also just say he's literally on the same level as YVWH in fewer words. But this guy is just going to spew ad naseum the same thing over and over so I don't think its worth your time.


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## Enclave (May 18, 2011)

King Hopper said:


> It IS the EXACT same one in the game. Literally. Creationism and everything, that's what SMT is derived from.
> 
> 
> 
> There's more, but I haven't touched SMT in ages.



If the SMT God is not completely omnipotent then I assure you that he isn't the same God as in the Christian belief system.  May be based on him but would be lesser in power and capabilities.


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## Fang (May 18, 2011)

Nah, you need to actually research SMT. Because all the mythological beings in SMT are based off their real world counterparts, except the only difference is stronger. Like how the Christian God isn't multiversal, and got tired from creating the world, SMT YVWH didn't get weaker.


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## Demon Of Elru (May 18, 2011)

This is a nice and clean debate, zenieth mentioned the feat, I asked for the source is the normal thing to do, now they are saying Lucifer is equal to the IG and this feats don't prove that, neither do they prove he can survive the UN that can wipe out infinite multiverse.

So please tell me where is the ad naseum cause you haven't prove anything yet.


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## King Hopper (May 18, 2011)

Enclave said:


> If the SMT God is not completely omnipotent then I assure you that he isn't the same God as in the Christian belief system.  May be based on him but would be lesser in power and capabilities.



He's omnipotent, the exception is having the Ultimate Sin committed by the Messiah, and even then, it wasn't a true death.


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## Fang (May 18, 2011)

I think you actually need to re-read my prior post because nothing in this thread is me attempting to take you seriously enough to have my time wasted anymore than it already has been.


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## Demon Of Elru (May 18, 2011)

Good then just go away.

So can someone actually prove all the claims about Lucifer?


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## Enclave (May 18, 2011)

King Hopper said:


> He's omnipotent, *the exception* is having the Ultimate Sin committed by the Messiah, and even then, it wasn't a true death.



Not omnipotent then and thus not the same deity as the Christian God is omnipotent.  So this means you're going to have to define what this god has done in the SMT series.


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## King Hopper (May 18, 2011)

Enclave said:


> Not omnipotent then and thus not the same deity as the Christian God is omnipotent.  So this means you're going to have to define what this god has done in the SMT series.



I question your reading comprehension, what part of non-true death don't you understand?  Either way, it was YHVH trolling, he didn't actually die, he just wanted to rub it in further.


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## Fang (May 18, 2011)

Demon Of Elru said:


> Good then just go away.
> 
> So can someone actually prove all the claims about Lucifer?



Seeing as how I'm not trolling, baiting, spamming and actually contributing, I don't think so.



Enclave said:


> Not omnipotent then and thus not the same deity as the Christian God is omnipotent.



Re-read it. YVWH *allowed* himself to be defeated to fool the main character, Aleph, then when Aleph died, had him die endlessly and infinitely in every world, alternate reality repeatedly (like GER did to Diavolo), and universe in the SMT multiverse as punishment for trying to defy his will in the first place.

Lucifer is on the same level as YVWH. And is above Aleph.


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## Demon Of Elru (May 18, 2011)

Wait so Lucifer is omnipotent? 

You haven't prove he is in the IG level much less UN level, but now he is omnipotent?


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## Fang (May 18, 2011)

Who said anything about Lucifer being omnipotent, both Lucifer and YVWH are nigh omnipotent, massively multiversal cosmic/abstract beings.


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## Demon Of Elru (May 18, 2011)

King Hopper said he was omnipotent.

Being massively multiversal cosmic/abstract beings is good (but none of you have post a single source, scan or anything that proves this), but you still haven't prove how is he going to survive somenthing that can wipe out infinite multiverse.


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## King Hopper (May 18, 2011)

You were saying? 
There's always the Omnipotent Paradox argument, but let's not go there..


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## Demon Of Elru (May 18, 2011)

Since you people are saying Lucifer is equal to him...yeah.


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## King Hopper (May 18, 2011)

Demon Of Elru said:


> Since you people are saying Lucifer is equal to him...yeah.



Note the word exception. Read the full statement. Stop pulling Half-Truth Fallacies.


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## Enclave (May 18, 2011)

All the guy said was "it wasn't a true death" at no point does that imply he was faking, just that he came back afterwards.

Anyways, it's pretty blatantly clear that it's going to be impossible to get a proper answer from the SMT fans here so I'm not even going to bother trying.


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## Fang (May 18, 2011)

A source was already fucking citied. YVWH casually destroys and creates multiple universes in his fucking eye just by blinking in SMT II. Lucifer is on the same fucking level. Kagakutschi's death destroyed every single known universe in the True Demon ending, he doesn't even compare to Lucifer.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruXy9nkRfAA&feature=player_embedded#at=65[/YOUTUBE]



Enclave said:


> All the guy said was "it wasn't a true death" at no point does that imply he was faking, just that he came back afterwards.
> 
> Anyways, it's pretty blatantly clear that it's going to be impossible to get a proper answer from the SMT fans here so I'm not even going to bother trying.



He worded it completely wrong as YVWH fakes his death to trick Aleph into thinking he's won. Mind you Aleph was specifically created and eventually evolved into a being whose on or past Hitoshura's own.


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## King Hopper (May 18, 2011)

By that I meant a death in Aleph's eyes alone, He didn't die at all. If there was any misinterpretation I apologize, but the point still stands.

EDIT: Ninja'd


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## zenieth (May 18, 2011)

The biggest problem with smt is that we can't exactly confirm where the multiverse hitoshura ended referred to all of smt. As the are games which reside in universes outside of the amala network. Everyone, save the persona/devil summoner series, has also shown to be guided or at least influenced by Lucifer. Hell even devil summoner/persona's universe seemed to be under total control until very recently and even then it may just be lucifer and yhwh stepping back for a moment.


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## Demon Of Elru (May 30, 2011)

zenieth said:


> Every split second of every second of every minute of every hour of every day of every month of every year of every millenium of all time, *his rival destroys and creates an infinite number of multiverses *just to test the faith of a random individual.



Found this:



			
				zenieth said:
			
		

> On the point of YHWH and making Billions of universes. He does that every second, makes countless billions and destroys just as many at the same time.





			
				Kamen Rider Ryoma said:
			
		

> Bullshit Mark 2.
> 
> Yes, he destroys and recreates universes constantly. Numbers are never mentioned though.



You people like to throw numbers out of thin air (not talking about Ryoma since he seems to be one of the few people who knows what he is talking about) so please bring the scan/screencap/source on where he says or does the bloded.



> While not being identified as YHVH, it is strongly implied that it can be brought back by the "Great Will", which Kagutsuchi is a part of. Kagutsuchi is responsible for destroying and re-creating thousands of worlds in different times. He is largely responsible for the Conception, where the world is voided into a vortex world, recreating the world according to others' Reasons.



It only says thousands, that doesn't hold a candle on the UN:


*Spoiler*: __ 








Explanation of the Multiverse, they clearly say infinite universes.



Multi-Eternity = multiverse.



Multi-Eternity getting destroyed by the UN.



The UN instantly destroyed and then recreated the 616 Multiverse without Abraxas. And Abraxas was destroying universes just by approaching them. 




Fang said:


> A source was already fucking citied. YVWH casually destroys and creates multiple universes in his fucking eye just by blinking in SMT II. Lucifer is on the same fucking level. Kagakutschi's death destroyed every single known universe in the True Demon ending, he doesn't even compare to Lucifer.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruXy9nkRfAA&feature=player_embedded#at=65[/YOUTUBE]



This video doesn't prove anything, not that he can resist the UN that as the scan clearly shows destroyed the 616 multiverse and recreated it instantly while destroying Abraxas too, and sure as hell not that either Lucifer or god are equal to IG, not even close.

As it stands Lucifer gets destroyed by the UN, unless you people bring the screen caps or source proving he has the power to resist.


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## zenieth (May 30, 2011)

Where the fuck did you go to pull that up? That's about two months old.


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## zenieth (May 30, 2011)

Also know that you're pulling half shit since that's not the entire quote.


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## zenieth (May 30, 2011)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEudV31xQR0[/YOUTUBE]

And here you go. It actually does say millions to billions.


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## Demon Of Elru (May 30, 2011)

Nice an actual source.

I assumed that when they said "worlds" they meant "universes" but no, they actually meant wolrds and the thing that got destroyed was the universe in which those worlds resided ergo the amala universe, which doesn't prove that they are multiversal, that they can tank the UN, that they are equal to the IG and finally that doesn't hold a candle to the UN and the feat of destroying the 616 Multiverse.


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## zenieth (May 30, 2011)

problem with that logic. hijiri aka aleph is reincarnated in every world, each world has its own time something a single planet can not have due to the nature of time itself.


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## Fang (May 30, 2011)

Each incarnation of Kagakutschi also governs a separate universe as well, which supports that.


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## Enclave (May 30, 2011)

Why is this thread still going on?  The SMT people are just going to keep repeating themselves and insult anybody who says otherwise.  May as well lock it.


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## zenieth (May 30, 2011)

somebody post that pot and kettle picture


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## Bender (May 30, 2011)

Can someone plz make with the closing?


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## Demon Of Elru (May 30, 2011)

zenieth said:


> problem with that logic. Hijiri aka aleph is reincarnated in every world, each world has its own time something a single planet can not have due to the nature of time itself.



Is not my logic is the explanation comes from the video you posted , it clearly shows and says how the universe is the Amala Universe and that universe is filled with billions of worlds.



> -In the vast Amala Universe.
> This vortex world is not the only place in where creation occurs
> 
> -Kagutsuchi rises, matures, and falls in countless other places
> ...



Is clear as water, the Amala is the universe and is filled with billions of worlds, and in the center of the Amala universe time and space is controlled and Kagustsuchi allows a life form to determine the fate of the world that resides in the Amala Universe and the shape of that world depends on the vision of that chosen one.

Each incarnation of Kagutsuchi governs a world not a universe, because the universe is the Amala, Kagutsuchi governs each world and the fate the course of that world depends on the one Kagutsuchi chooses.

Now the Hijiri part.



> *Hijiri:*
> 
> ..Yes, he did lose his life, like all others.
> As he was heading to the hospital where you already were, the conception began...and his life ended.
> ...



He only reincarnates and emerges in a new world when he dies and he doesn't even realize he died because of his curse.



Fang said:


> Each incarnation of Kagakutschi also governs a separate universe as well, which supports that.



It governs a separated world, not an universe.

Really this doesnt prove they are multiversal, that they can tank the UN that destroyed the 616 Multiverse that was filled with infinite universes and sure as hell doesn't put them nowhere near the IG.


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## Enclave (May 31, 2011)

zenieth said:


> somebody post that pot and kettle picture



Oh really?  I can quote for you the times where I was undeservingly insulted in this very topic if you want.


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## Lina Inverse (May 31, 2011)

wasn't this thread locked or was I just imagining things


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## Fang (May 31, 2011)

It was indeed.


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## zenieth (May 31, 2011)

i wonder where i said this thread anywhere in my post.


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## Physics Man (May 31, 2011)

Unless this is guy is stronger then Eternity or can take a blast from the UN then he has no chance of beating Big G.


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## Crimson Dragoon (May 31, 2011)

just a note, worlds are sometimes synonymous with universes in fiction, such as Digimon and Dark Tower


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## Demon Of Elru (May 31, 2011)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> just a note, worlds are sometimes synonymous with universes in fiction, such as Digimon and Dark Tower



I know, I assumed that was the case because even in the scans I posted they refer to universes as worlds when they explain the multiverse, but the video they posted explains that this isn't the case with SMT, the Amala is the universe and the worlds are just part of that universe.

They claimed Lucifer was equal to the IG, but evidence showed that wasn't true not even close, they said he could created and destroy infinite universes but not only he can't cause this worlds aren't universes, but it says millions to billlions and is clear that infinite > millions to billions, and finally they said he could survive the UN somenthing that destroyed an infinite multiverse (the 616 multiverse) but evidence showed that wasn't true either.


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## Crimson Dragoon (May 31, 2011)

I think I'll be trusting the people who played the game on this one when it comes to the worlds=universes thing


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## Demon Of Elru (May 31, 2011)

It won't change what the video shows:



Explainig that the Amala is the Universe.



Saying that inside that universe there are millions-billions of worlds.



And that time and space is controlled in the amala universe.



And here you can see how inside the amala universe worlds die and rebirth, but it all happens in one universe the Amala universe.

And even if you want to say that this worlds are universes, then it clearly says millions to billions and that is nothing compared to infinite, so how is it that he is equal to the IG? or how can he withstand the UN that destroyed and *infinite multiverse*?



Yes it says infinite worlds and that is why I thought it meant the same thing in SMT, but it clearly says *multiverse* not universe like in SMT and add the *infinite* part too that in SMT is only *millions to billions*, also:



Eternity = infinite universe
Multi-Eternity= infinite Multiverse

And the UN destroyed Multi-Eternity, so Lucifer gets destroyed.


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## zenieth (May 31, 2011)

note how it said how time and space are a singular. destruction of a kagatsuchi ends time for a 'world' which is what happens in demon ending. With a single aspect of time you couldn't stop time for one and not for all if they were just planets as they are subject to the same singular time.

Also japanese game universe and world are the same word.


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## zenieth (May 31, 2011)

also she never gives a limit merely states the grand scheme of things. 

Also doesn't explain how all those worlds are simultaneously earth and follow an asymetrical timeline with only a few discrepancies amongst them.

Comparatively, hijiri can't exist in all those worlds with a singular timeline nor merely be instantly reborn as one world dies as we see worlds die simultaneously.


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## Demon Of Elru (May 31, 2011)

zenieth said:


> note how it said how time and space are a singular. destruction of a kagatsuchi ends time for a 'world' which is what happens in demon ending. With a single aspect of time you couldn't stop time for one and not for all if they were just planets as they are subject to the same singular time.
> 
> Also japanese game universe and world are the same word.



When he destroyed one Kagutsuchi he destroy all of them, those Kagutsuchi were the same one, they were all linked between them that is why when he destroyed one all of them disappeared.



> *Old gentleman in a weelchair*
> 
> A world is created, populated by mankind,and destroyed.
> This cycle is what maintains the flow of time; when the cycle stops, so does time.
> And now, time has met her death.



That was Kagutsuchi's task, to destroy and create a new world, but when Hitoshura destroyed him, he can no longer do that, and that is why time stopped.



As the screen cap shows in the center of the Amala Universe time and space was controlled, the time and space of each world in that universe, but when Kagutsuchi died everything stopped because there was no more destruction and creation.



zenieth said:


> also she never gives a limit merely states the grand scheme of things.



She gives a number and that won't change the fact of Infinite > billions.



> Also doesn't explain how all those worlds are simultaneously earth and follow an asymetrical timeline with only a few discrepancies amongst them.



In the video you posted the explain this, the shape and fate of each world depends on the person Kagutsuchi chooses, but all the time and space is controlled in the Amala universe.



> Comparatively, hijiri can't exist in all those worlds with a singular timeline nor merely be instantly reborn as one world dies as we see worlds die simultaneously.



He can, because that is the curse the Great Will put on him, and we do see worlds die simultaneously, but we also see that there are still a lot that don't and in one of those is where Hijiri reborns once he dies.



See.


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## ~Greed~ (May 31, 2011)

Locking. Aparenetly this was locked, and then for some reason was recently unlocked. I don't know why, but with the complaints I'm getting from this thread, I'm going to re-lock this.


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