# [Official Discussion] Do you think Tobi is Obito Uchiha?



## Scizor (Aug 11, 2012)

This chapter convinced me that Tobi is Obito. I was already leaning towards thinking Tobi being Obito after the previous chapter, but it wasn't enough to get me off of the fence just yet.

But either Tobi is Obito or these two panels:


*Spoiler*: _panels_ 










are one of the biggest (and most rediculous) red herrings ever.


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## NO (Aug 11, 2012)

At a split end. Tobi says he got the eye from the bridge. Of course, he could be lying and he could in fact just be Obito considering all the hate he has for Kakashi.


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## Vash (Aug 11, 2012)

Nope       .


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## Russo (Aug 11, 2012)

[sp=Tag yo' shit][/sp]


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## Deva Path (Aug 11, 2012)

That panel where they showed Kakashi's eye and Tobi's eye confirmed to me that he definitely has Obito's eye. My only question is whether he's Obito or not.

Yes, everyone will argue his anger/speech towards Kakashi confirms it... but I'm not sold yet.


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## Raiden (Aug 11, 2012)

I'm not sold yet either. The story is playing out in such a way where you think it's one person, but it's actually someone else.


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## k2nice (Aug 11, 2012)

He said he got it during the war not literally on the bridge


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## Soca (Aug 11, 2012)

yes it is him


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## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

yes he's obito.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 12, 2012)

No. Tobi just has his eye. That's all we have confirmed at this point.


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## Ezekial (Aug 12, 2012)

*Confirmed: Not Obito, eye only.*

THEN WHO DAFUQ?


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## Deva Path (Aug 12, 2012)

k2nice said:


> He said he got it during the war not literally on the bridge



Tobi: Where you say? Well, it was during the past World War. The fight at the Kannabi bridge...


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## Seraphiel (Aug 12, 2012)

Everything is pointing to it yes. I just hope there was actually more than 1 Tobi throughout the years then. Becaus rofl @ Minato if he died because of Obito.


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## Golden Circle (Aug 12, 2012)

No, he just found Obito's eye.




Russo said:


> [sp=taggy tag tag tag][/sp]


Kakashi is on the right hand side, not Obito. It's showing that Kakashi and Tobi are like two halves of a whole, like Ying and Yang.


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## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

if anything this chapter confirms that tobi is Obito, after that rant on kakashi.


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## forkandspoon (Aug 12, 2012)

*No way Tobi is Obito!*

If you said this at any point since Tobi was introduced I recommend you check out this link


*Spoiler*: __ 











You're welcome, I hope you can get the help you need.


*Spoiler*: __ 




I'm going to hell for this but it's so worth it


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## afrosheen6565 (Aug 12, 2012)

*Sweet Vindication!*

Sweet Sweet Vindication! Tobi is Obito! 99.9% Confirmed! I'm not one to make proclamations -- but it feels good being right on this one! Come all ye who were mocked for daring to believe! Kishi, you're a hero!

Only slight loophole is that during the flashback to his battle with the fourth, he seemed much older than Kakashi and Gai even though he was in the same class as them. Other than that though, this is rock solid!


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## NO (Aug 12, 2012)

Anyone wanna click the link?


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## Ezekial (Aug 12, 2012)

He just said he got it at the bridge, so no, unless he's referring to when he activated it


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 12, 2012)

Exactly. That's all that's been confirmed. Tobi's identity is still unknown at this point.


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## Vash (Aug 12, 2012)

PORN       !


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## ch1p (Aug 12, 2012)

It is *TOBITO*.


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## Ezekial (Aug 12, 2012)

He just said he got the eye from the bridge.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 12, 2012)

Nic said:


> if anything this chapter confirms that tobi is Obito, after that rant on kakashi.


No, if anything, that tells us Tobi's done his homework. Like he's done about Hashirama-so he could make the comparison between him and Naruto.


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## NO (Aug 12, 2012)

No, the only thing that was confirmed is that Tobi has Obito's eye.


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## Gaawa-chan (Aug 12, 2012)

... Obito was more or less buried under rubble.  If Tobi is someone else, then he would have had to somehow KNOW that Obito was there with a Sharingan in his head, because otherwise it would make no sense for him to go to all the trouble of digging through that mess of stones.  What's more, he'd have to do it quickly because the longer Obito was under there, the less likely the eye would have been salvageable.


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## Ezekial (Aug 12, 2012)

Good neighbours LOLOL


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## Golden Circle (Aug 12, 2012)

Nic said:


> if anything this chapter confirms that tobi is Obito, after that rant on kakashi.


Maybe. But remember that eyes have knowledge with them too, and that Tobi is the sort of person who knows just about everything.


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## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

Ezekial said:


> He just said he got the eye from the bridge.



yes he awakened his sharingan there.


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## Roronoa Zoro (Aug 12, 2012)

It is not *TOBITO*.

Edit: It's Kagami  (using Obito's eye0


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## son_michael (Aug 12, 2012)

obito didn't die on the bridge so that makes no sense. Obviously tobi is saying he got it during that war


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## Hexa (Aug 12, 2012)

Well, it looks like Kakashi is a Tobi=Obito believer now.  I'm not convinced, but I think everyone acknowledges the possibility.


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## kzk (Aug 12, 2012)

The wording seems intentionally ambiguous.


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## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> No, if anything, that tells us Tobi's done his homework. Like he's done about Hashirama-so he could make the comparison between him and Naruto.



yeah you're right because doing his homework on Hashirama when impersonating madara is the same thing as stalking Kakashi at Obito's grave and listening to his excuses.


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## Summers (Aug 12, 2012)

Not really. Not one bit. I am sure this chapter will make people shaky like I predicted and start ass-covering. Ya know,saying that kinda supported it all along. I cant wait to see it.

@Hexa; not me.


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## ch1p (Aug 12, 2012)

FUCKING 24'D. I NEED TO REP YOU BEFORE YOU GET BANNED.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 12, 2012)

Nic said:


> yeah you're right because doing his homework on Hashirama when impersonating madara is the same thing as stalking Kakashi at Obito's grave and listening to his excuses.


...except he never stalked Kakashi at Obito's grave. You really can't separate the figurative and literal speech of that rant? 

This chapter only confirms Tobi retrieved Obito's eye.


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## Golden Circle (Aug 12, 2012)

Nic said:


> yeah you're right because doing his homework on Hashirama when impersonating madara is the same thing as stalking Kakashi at Obito's grave and listening to his excuses.


Take off the  at the end, and you would be right. Not saying that he did any of those things, however.


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## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

Rainbow Dash said:


> Maybe. But remember that eyes have knowledge with them too, and that Tobi is the sort of person who knows just about everything.



he's acting with a pesonal grudge against Kakashi.  He flat out told him to shut up a couple chapters ago and then went on a rant on Gai, making them wonder who this guy was again.

Now he goes on an even bigger personal rant on empty words meaning nothing (protecting rin) and then goes on to saying he was basically stalking him at obito's grave when it makes no sense for anyone to do so if they aren't known to kakashi.  What tobi knows is about things related to techniques especially uchiha related (since he didn't know how edo tensei worked but ironically madara did), and things related to Madara's background which he needed to know for impersonation purposes and starting a war.  There is no reason for him to go out stalking kakashi at obito's grave whatsoever.


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## forkandspoon (Aug 12, 2012)

The line about Kakashi apologizing at the grave is what seals the deal, as well as the panel throw back to Kakashi Gaiden....


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## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> ...except he never stalked Kakashi at Obito's grave. You really can't separate the figurative and literal speech of that rant?
> 
> This chapter only confirms Tobi retrieved Obito's eye.



so he's only out of the blue guessed that kakashi was making excuses infront of Obito's grave?


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## k2nice (Aug 12, 2012)

Its funny how the forum has split into two factions. One who believe in Tobi=Obito and the one that doesnt


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## ironblade_x1 (Aug 12, 2012)

My sig. Tired of typing it out.

He had Madara's memories too. It's a little odd. And it's clear that he has some under-current resentment against Kakashi specifically. 

Remember the "fake" Tobi with the uppy personality too. I don't think it's all acting. I think he's got more than one person in there.


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## Karman (Aug 12, 2012)

The veracity of Tobi's attacks against Kakashi's character and the repeated references to Obito's grave seem to suggest Kishi is leading up to revealing Tobi is Obito, but I'd also like to think that the manga is self-conscious enough to pull these heart strings as one final red herring. 

Tobi is cunning enough to use every weapon at his disposal, including the psychological. Kakashi just revealed one massive hole in Tobi's armor, using Obito's memory to unsteady Kakashi's hand at this point is one very good secondary defense.


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## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

Also another thing that points he's obito despite all the running mouth and hero comments that relate to the Gaiden, he now just went on about failing a mission.


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## Summers (Aug 12, 2012)

As for how Tobi gets his info. He kinda has this dude named Zetsu who can move underground without notice, and can make clones of himself, and perfectly transform into people. Helps with Intel a bit.


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## vered (Aug 12, 2012)

either obito or izuna.cant be anybody else.


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## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

also kishi is easing in to the revelation that he's Obito.  Notice the lack of why do you have obito's eye? or are you Obito from Kakashi comment? 



vered said:


> either obito or izuna.cant be anybody else.



Izuna has no reason to hold this type of personal grudge against Kakashi.


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## Sasukethe7thHokage (Aug 12, 2012)

Its obvious hes obito just like it was painfully obvious Minato was naruto's father.. & people debated that to no end as well when we close to the truth. if not obito who else could it be?


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## Untitled (Aug 12, 2012)

I'm not saying Tobi is Obito but...
*Spoiler*: __


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## Brian (Aug 12, 2012)

it's rin with a sex change


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## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

Sasukethe7thHokage said:


> Its obvious hes obito just like it was painfully obvious Minato was naruto's father.. & people debated that to no end as well when we close to the truth. if not obito who else could it be?



apparently Izuna has a personal grudge against Kakashi.


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## son_michael (Aug 12, 2012)

Untitled said:


> I'm not saying Tobi is Obito but...
> *Spoiler*: __



wow nice find. that just seals the deal....even though the deal was sealed long ago


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## Raiden (Aug 12, 2012)

Wow I just reread Gaiden, and I didn't even catch the parallelism in presentation of the faces. Very nice find. Nic and those images are doing a good job of wrapping this up lol.


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## Lindsay (Aug 12, 2012)

The only thing we can positively take away from this is that Tobi obtained Obito's remaining eye at some time close to when the Battle of Kannabi Bridge took place. Remember how Tobi had an entire collection of Sharingans? It is not stretch to say he found a useful Sharingan ability after losing an eye; maybe losing one after using Izanagi during the Third Shinobi War.

Now that I think about it, how could Obito claim to have obtained his own eye at the age of 13? Obito was already born with that eye...


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## Hossaim (Aug 12, 2012)

Izuna is using Obito's eye.


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## R00t_Decision (Aug 12, 2012)

Lindsay said:


> The only thing we can positively take away from this is that Tobi obtained Obito's remaining eye at some time close to when the Battle of Kannabi Bridge took place. Remember how Tobi had an entire collection of Sharingans? It is not stretch to say he found a useful Sharingan ability after losing an eye; maybe losing one after using Izanagi during the Third Shinobi War.
> 
> Now that I think about it, how could Obito claim to have obtained his own eye at the age of 13? Obito was already born with that eye...


This makes the most sense. 


Naruko x Ranma 1/2


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## Talis (Aug 12, 2012)

*Its him*


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## Sound Village (Aug 12, 2012)

Yes, I do.


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## Talis (Aug 12, 2012)

Fixed.........................


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## ueki kouske (Aug 12, 2012)

It's WHO??


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## Octavian (Aug 12, 2012)

if its obito, then all i have to say is that madara's TnJ >>>>> Naruto's TnJ. He mindraped this kid into a 180 degree personality change by turning him into a sadistic killer


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## Hoshigaki Kisame (Aug 12, 2012)

Tobi definitely 100% has Obito's eye. He might be using his body. But he's not Obito mind and soul.


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## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

Lindsay said:


> The only thing we can positively take away from this is that Tobi obtained Obito's remaining eye at some time close to when the Battle of Kannabi Bridge took place. Remember how Tobi had an entire collection of Sharingans? It is not stretch to say he found a useful Sharingan ability after losing an eye; maybe losing one after using Izanagi during the Third Shinobi War.
> 
> Now that I think about it, how could Obito claim to have obtained his own eye at the age of 13? Obito was already born with that eye...



he was most likely using those eyes for izanagi which makes sense in itself.


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## Butō Rengoob (Aug 12, 2012)

Nic said:


> Izuna has no reason to hold this type of personal grudge against Kakashi.


Obito had no reason to hold a grudge against the Uchiha.

No it's not Obito, this chapter confirms it's his eye.


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## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

Raiden said:


> Wow I just reread Gaiden, and I didn't even catch the parallelism in presentation of the faces. Very nice find. Nic and those images are doing a good job of wrapping this up lol.



yeah an it's full of parallels with words - the terms hope, hero, mission, having a big mouth, and kakashi's thinking are a huge focus of that entire gaiden.


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## Hossaim (Aug 12, 2012)

Yea, Tobi is using Obito's eye.

You know how Izuna is with eyes. Every since he lost his hes been obsessed with them.


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## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

Butō Rengoob said:


> Obito had no reason to hold a grudge against the Uchiha.
> 
> No it's not Obito, this chapter confirms it's his eye.



actually he held a grudge against Konoha.   Madara held a grudge against the Uchiha.


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## Hossaim (Aug 12, 2012)

Tobi is using Obito's eye. Nothing more.

It makes sense Izuna would be obsessed with eyes, he lost his after all.


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## ueki kouske (Aug 12, 2012)

HeLLzRoLLinG said:


> Tobi definitely 100% has Obito's eye. He might be using his body. But he's not Obito mind and soul.


_Mind_ and _Soul_  LOL


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## Slayer (Aug 12, 2012)

Rainbow Dash said:


> Some of us like our scans without pandas pasted all over them.





A panda is drinking sake with butterflyzen.

your argument is invalid.


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## kingcools (Aug 12, 2012)

how can people still deny tobi = obito???? wtf? are you for real? kishi is washing your face with obito = tobi with this chapter, and some STILL dont get it?!?!?!?!?!? wtf is up...

tobi obviously talks like he and kakashi are familiar, he has the eye, heck, both obitos and tobis right side of their bodies are damaged(his right arm is the gooooo arm), he is missing sharingan in his left eye.
No denying it.


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## Talis (Aug 12, 2012)

kingcools said:


> how can people still deny tobi = obito???? wtf? are you for real? kishi is washing your face with obito = tobi with this chapter, and some STILL dont get it?!?!?!?!?!? wtf is up...


Stubborn people stay stubborn.


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## MYJC (Aug 12, 2012)

Good grief. I was anti-Tobito but it's CLEARLY him at this point. I can't believe people are still in denial. Is it THAT hard to admit you were wrong? I mean I did. 

He says he got it at that battle because that's when he first awakened it. Do you know how stupid and anticlimactic it would be for it to be Izuna or some random Uchiha at his point?



Lindsay said:


> The only thing we can positively take away from this is that Tobi obtained Obito's remaining eye at some time close to when the Battle of Kannabi Bridge took place. Remember how Tobi had an entire collection of Sharingans? It is not stretch to say he found a useful Sharingan ability after losing an eye; maybe losing one after using Izanagi during the Third Shinobi War.
> 
> Now that I think about it, how could Obito claim to have obtained his own eye at the age of 13? Obito was already born with that eye...



Because that's when he got a _Sharingan_. He didn't have it before then and obtained it during that battle.


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## Friday (Aug 12, 2012)

I want to believe that it's him...

But I feel like right now we're getting more of a "he took the eye" rather than "it's him himself." It fits with the theme of taking eyes that part 2 has given us. 

I'm going with the idea that Tobi went around testing eyes and he found that Obito's was the most useful.


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## Saizo sarutobi (Aug 12, 2012)

I think he is Obito  and all those who bash this theory will soon be very ashamed..


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## Butō Rengoob (Aug 12, 2012)

Nic said:


> actually he held a grudge against Konoha.   Madara held a grudge against the Uchiha.


Oh yeah, he has no reason to hold a grudge against Konoha either. They didn't 'cause his death.


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## Skywalker (Aug 12, 2012)

No, I feel as though Tobi just took his eye.


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## spiritmight (Aug 12, 2012)

It's not fully Obito.

I still think that Tobi is someone else using Obito's eye.

Before the reveal of the Sixth Coffin I used to think that Tobi was Madara using Obito's body.


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## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

Hossaim said:


> Tobi is using Obito's eye. Nothing more.
> 
> It makes sense Izuna would be obsessed with eyes, he lost his after all.



and his personal grudge against kakashi is explained how exactly?


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## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

Butō Rengoob said:


> Oh yeah, he has no reason to hold a grudge against Konoha either. They didn't 'cause his death.



He's not dead. They most likely caused Rin's death.


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## kingcools (Aug 12, 2012)

Saizo sarutobi said:


> I think he is Obito  and all those who bash this theory will soon be very ashamed..



soon? obito = tobi is a fact now, get over it


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## k2nice (Aug 12, 2012)

This should have a poll


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## Ichi Sagato (Aug 12, 2012)

Wow, I can understand being a little sceptical.. But there should be no rational reason to deny the strong Obito, Tobi relationship at this point. I never threw in with the Tobi = Obito theories before, and I used to find them quite silly. But this seems to be drawing up to just that. Just deal with it.


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## MYJC (Aug 12, 2012)

kingcools said:


> soon? obito = tobi is a fact now, get over it



I swear, he could be like "Kakashi, remember the old days when it was me, you, and Rin?" and people would still try to make up convoluted theories about him being some unimportant character like Izuna or Kagami.


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## son_michael (Aug 12, 2012)

MYJC said:


> I swear, he could be like "Kakashi, remember the old days when it was me, you, and Rin?" and people would still try to make up convoluted theories about him being some unimportant character like Izuna or Kagami.



I could see it now

"Izuna must have copied obito's memories"

"Tobi is just messing with kakashi to make him think he is obito"

"its too obvious so it can't be obito"


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## Lindsay (Aug 12, 2012)

kingcools said:


> soon? obito = tobi is a fact now, get over it



If Tobi is Obito how can he claim to have gotten the eye he was born with at the age of 13? Its like: "I got this eye when I was 13 even though I was born with it."

 That is just silly and makes very little sense. I don't really care if Tobi is Obito but that little tidbit in the chapter seemed to hint that Tobi isn't Obito and that he simply obtained Obito's eye.


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## son_michael (Aug 12, 2012)

Lindsay said:


> If Tobi is Obito how can he claim to have gotten the eye he was born with at the age of 13? Its like: "I got this eye when I was 13 even though I was born with it."
> 
> That is just silly and makes very little sense. I don't really care if Tobi is Obito but that little tidbit in the chapter seemed to hint that Tobi isn't Obito and that he simply obtained Obito's eye.



he got the eye when he unlocked it


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## Sound Village (Aug 12, 2012)

MYJC said:


> I swear, he could be like "Kakashi, remember the old days when it was me, you, and Rin?" and people would still try to make up convoluted theories about him being some unimportant character like Izuna or Kagami.



And it'd go something like...

He said that because after Obito died, his dad(Kagami) took Rin and Kakashi out for ice cream every now and then, obviously. He only has Obito's eye because he wanted something to remember him by. And once Rin died, he decided to finally implant it inside of himself, because Kakashi failed his son and his son's lover, and he was sick of it.


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## MYJC (Aug 12, 2012)

Lindsay said:


> If Tobi is Obito how can he claim to have gotten the eye he was born with at the age of 13? Its like: "I got this eye when I was 13 even though I was born with it."
> 
> That is just silly and makes very little sense. I don't really care if Tobi is Obito but that little tidbit in the chapter seemed to hint that Tobi isn't Obito and that he simply obtained Obito's eye.



He wasn't born with a Sharingan. He got it during the battle at the bridge.


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## Gaawa-chan (Aug 12, 2012)

son_michael said:


> I could see it now
> 
> "Izuna must have copied obito's memories"
> 
> ...



I've always found it strange that anti-Tobito folk will ridicule Tobito followers- calling them crack-pots grasping at straws and such- as if emotionally-charged dismissals of perfectly plausible scenarios are rational.


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## Ichi Sagato (Aug 12, 2012)

Lindsay said:


> If Tobi is Obito how can he claim to have gotten the eye he was born with at the age of 13? Its like: "I got this eye when I was 13 even though I was born with it."
> 
> That is just silly and makes very little sense. I don't really care if Tobi is Obito but that little tidbit in the chapter seemed to hint that Tobi isn't Obito and that he simply obtained Obito's eye.



Kakashi was referring to his Sharingan, and it makes sense because that is the battle Obito unlocked his Sharingan. Your  explanation though by far is the only one to make sense.

The other anti Tobi = Obito explanation sound even sillier then the Tobi = Obito theories pre this chapter. Besides, that panel throw to Kakashi and his rection is a complete giveaway


*Spoiler*: __ 



The last panel, he sais





			
				Kakashi said:
			
		

> ......... *You..*



Pray tell who he is referring to? Who else is it from the Kannabi Bridge battle does Kakashi know for him to blurt out "You". Even if he's just saying "you were there" since there is a lack of an exclamation mark next to his you, still, come on people you know how this is going to turn out the next few chapters.


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## Talis (Aug 12, 2012)

MYJC said:


> I swear, he could be like "Kakashi, remember the old days when it was me, you, and Rin?" and people would still try to make up convoluted theories about him being some unimportant character like Izuna or Kagami.


Post of the month. 
Proud to be a Tobito believer *since the start.*


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## joshhookway (Aug 12, 2012)

It's confirmed by Kakashi's reactions and Tobi's speech after wards that he's obito


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## Hossaim (Aug 12, 2012)

joshhookway said:


> It's confirmed by Kakashi's reactions and Tobi's speech after wards that he's obito



No, it's confirmed Kakashi thinks he is obito.


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## Zetamancer (Aug 12, 2012)

Very obvious that Tobi just stole the eye.


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## Gaawa-chan (Aug 12, 2012)

Zetamancer said:


> Very obvious that Tobi just stole the eye.



I'm gonna say this again.

"... Obito was more or less buried under rubble. If Tobi is someone else, then he would have had to somehow KNOW that Obito was there with a Sharingan in his head, because otherwise it would make no sense for him to go to all the trouble of digging through that mess of stones. What's more, he'd have to do it quickly because the longer Obito was under there, the less likely the eye would have been salvageable."


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## Kool-Aid (Aug 12, 2012)

how could tobi know what kakashi is doing at the grave, unless he's a stalker. it had to be someone with him there.


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## Lindsay (Aug 12, 2012)

son_michael said:


> he got the eye when he unlocked it



What? How are they not the same physical eyes?



MYJC said:


> He wasn't born with a Sharingan. He got it during the battle at the bridge.



Tobi never mentioned anything about Sharingan. Only that he got his current right eye during the 3rd Shinobi War where the Battle of Kannabi Bridge took place.

If Tobi is Obito then he could not have gotten his eye during the Third Shinobi War at the Battle of Kanabi Bridge since he already had that eye at birth.



Ichi Sagato said:


> Kakashi was referring to his Sharingan, and it makes sense because that is the battle Obito unlocked his Sharingan. Your  explanation though by far is the only one to make sense.
> 
> The other anti Tobi = Obito explanation sound even sillier then the Tobi = Obito theories pre this chapter. Besides, that panel throw to Kakashi and his rection is a complete giveaway
> 
> ...



Kakashi never mentioned the word Sharingan. Only the word "eye". It makes very little sense to say; "Since I unlocked the abilities of my eye it is a brand new eye."

Take for example Kakashi's left eye which is Obito's. At first it simply remained in its three tomoe state. But during the timeskip it became possible for Kakashi to unleash Mangekyo Sharingan. Just because Kakashi unlocked new abilities with it did not mean it was a new eye. It was still Obito's left eye that Kakashi took just as Obito unlocking Sharingan didn't change the fact that he obtained his eyes at birth. 

How can Kakashi say; "I got this eye 2 years ago", just because he unlocked the Mangekyo Sharingan?  That is just an absurd thing for him to state.

Kakashi never finished his sentence. For all we know Kakashi might want to have stated: "You took Obito's eye?!"  We can't really take anything from that.


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## Coldhands (Aug 12, 2012)

No, I don't think it's Obito. Most of the evidence points towards Izuna Uchiha.


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## Talis (Aug 12, 2012)

I just found at that ''TobiTobi'' means ''scattered here and scattered there'' in Japanese, which could reffer to Obito's eye/body.


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## Raventhal (Aug 12, 2012)

Lindsay said:


> What? How are they not the same physical eyes?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's not literal.   If someone asked a war vet where did he get the scar.  He says at a battle ___.  Does it mean he found his scar there or that he got injured there?  

OK.

Tobi looks like Obito.
Tobi has entrusted someone/thing to Kakashi, Obito entrusted Rin to Kakashi.
Tobi has the other Obito eye not taken by Kakashi and bases his costume around it.
Tobi first shows his sharingan to Kakashi.
Tobi has personal issues with Kakashi who's basically a loner that Obito would if alive.  
Tobi first appears after Obito disappears.
Tobi for unknown reason will only use Obito's sharingan despite having other sharingan and rinnegan and jutsu.
Tobi is a liar and Obito was liar.
Tobi tells Kakashi to shut up, Obito tells Kakashi to shut up.

It goes on and on.  You guys are just in denial.


----------



## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

i guess with 50 some mwmbers wagering that he iant Obito it is not surprising that they keep turning a blind eye to all the heavy hints here.


----------



## Easley (Aug 12, 2012)

Is he Obito? hmm, let me think...

Kishi is blatantly obvious at times but he's giving it away before the mask is off. Not cool. He is the best spoiler provider ever! or he's seriously underestimating his readers and thinks this is a surprise? Is he out of the loop that much?

Ah, Tobi is Obito, but I hope there's a twist. The damn mask is still on that bastard's face!! I hate that thing! If Naruto shatters it he will automatically become my favorite character. Go Naruto!


----------



## Gaawa-chan (Aug 12, 2012)

Easley said:


> Kishi is blatantly obvious at times but he's giving it away before the mask is off.



Like that stopped naysayers from crooning about how Tobi was Madara back when he originally claimed to be...


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 12, 2012)

Easley said:


> Is he Obito? hmm, let me think...
> 
> Kishi is blatantly obvious at times but he's giving it away before the mask is off. Not cool. He is the best spoiler provider ever! or he's seriously underestimating his readers and thinks this is a surprise? Is he out of the loop that much?
> 
> Ah, Tobi is Obito, but I hope there's a twist. The damn mask is still on that bastard's face!! I hate that thing! If Naruto shatters it he will automatically become my favorite character. Go Naruto!



Actually it's not as obvious if you don't know what bridge he's talking about.  If you don't (like I wouldn't without the forums) than you probably don't know what he's talking about.  Again people here are way more hardcore.


----------



## KillerFlow (Aug 12, 2012)

He keeps talking about false heroes, and yet..


----------



## Icegaze (Aug 12, 2012)

Tobi appears to be Obito in body and mind but not soul.
This person that calls himself Tobi seems to possess physical attributes that belonged to Obito (Sharingan, hair style) and his memories/ideals (rant about Kakashi and "heroes"). Hence, it appears to be Obito at 66.6%. 

BUT, there's that remaining 33.333% that tells us that it is not as straight forward as we are lead to believe. And forget about "plotholes" or inconsistencies; there are things Kishi could easily clear up with new facts about the past via unseen flashbacks.


----------



## Escargon (Aug 12, 2012)

How the FUCK cant it be Obito? 

"Its too late to regret.."

Kishi draws Kakashi having a mind breakdown a reason.

And the answer he gave is where he ACTIVATED his eye actually..

Or, it could be that ninja with the two knives that survived and picked out Obitos eye.

Both would pretty much mindfuck Kakashi but i honestly think its Obito with Madaras half body and brain.

The question is how the fuck Obito could survive the rocks falling down at locking him inside. Did he already learn spacetime there? XD

And oh yeah, how he fought Minato as an aged man? Well, the other dimension goes slower i guess?


----------



## MYJC (Aug 12, 2012)

Easley said:


> Is he Obito? hmm, let me think...
> 
> Kishi is blatantly obvious at times but he's giving it away before the mask is off. Not cool. He is the best spoiler provider ever! or he's seriously underestimating his readers and thinks this is a surprise? Is he out of the loop that much?
> 
> Ah, Tobi is Obito, but I hope there's a twist. The damn mask is still on that bastard's face!! I hate that thing! If Naruto shatters it he will automatically become my favorite character. Go Naruto!



That's how Kishi is. 

Remember the mystery of Pain? It was so blatantly obvious that Nagato was controlling the bodies that some people thought it would be someone else. Was it? Nope, it was Nagato just like everybody thought.

Remember when we didn't know who Naruto's parents were? Everybody thought it was so blatantly obvious that the 4th Hokage was his dad that it would end up being someone else. Was it? Nope. His dad ended up being the 4th Hokage like people had been predicting from Chapter one. 

So, yeah. Kishi has a history of going with the obvious.


----------



## Zetamancer (Aug 12, 2012)

Escargon said:


> How the FUCK cant it be Obito?
> 
> "Its too late to regret.."
> 
> ...



Given the fact that Tobi fought with Minato when Naruto was born. And Tobi was a full grown man. Obito would've been missing a head on Minato.

But I'm sure you'll make something up to ignore that. Please do so now.

Oh, missed that part at the bottom. Still the biggest BS explanation ever though. I knew you wouldn't let down. Didn't any of you learn from the "Akatsuki Leader is the 4th hokage!" theories?


----------



## son_michael (Aug 12, 2012)

Icegaze said:


> Tobi appears to be Obito in body and mind but not soul.
> This person that calls himself Tobi seems to possess physical attributes that belonged to Obito (Sharingan, hair style) and his memories/ideals (rant about Kakashi and "heroes"). Hence, it appears to be Obito at 66.6%.
> 
> BUT, there's that remaining 33.333% that tells us that it is not as straight forward as we are lead to believe. And forget about "plotholes" or inconsistencies; there are things Kishi could easily clear up with new facts about the past via unseen flashbacks.



so hes pissed off at kakashi because he has obito's memories? 


btw have you seen this?


----------



## Lindsay (Aug 12, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> It's not literal.   If someone asked a war vet where did he get the scar.  He says at a battle ___.  Does it mean he found his scar there or that he got injured there?
> 
> OK.



Poor example. A more apt example is if your left eye became a different color and had better night vision as a result. Then someone asks you: "Where did you get your eye?". 

It would be incorrect to state the "where" and the "when" your eye changed colors since that does not properly answer the inquiry. So if you never had a eye transplant, then the proper answer is to state that you got the eye at birth and then maybe tell the person that it later changed.

If you had an eye transplant you'd state the "where" the "how", etc. of the eye transplant.  Then later you'd add that your eye changed. That is a correct answer to the inquiry.

Supposing that I'm your teacher and you submitted "When and Where my eye changed colors" instead of "Where I got my eye" then I couldn't give you credit since you didn't answer or address the question of where you got your eye at all.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 12, 2012)

It should be obvious to all but the staunchest of skeptics that he is.


----------



## Obito (Aug 12, 2012)

Please note, Despair and Future being used by Obito to Kakashi.

Please note Tobi restating the exact two words...

Please note the 2nd use of "Hope" again.

Thank you, and good day!...





Ahem...


----------



## Brian (Aug 12, 2012)

15 year old Obito told Kushina he waited a long time for this moment  

Yeah makes sense


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 12, 2012)

Brian said:


> 15 year old Obito told Kushina he waited a long time for this moment
> 
> Yeah makes sense



I was hungry on a road trip and when we stopped to you couldn't imagine how long I waited for this moment.

I was trapped under rocks, likely mind raped by Madara to the point where I want to attack my former sensi and village.  I waited a long time for this moment.


----------



## Combine (Aug 12, 2012)

Kishi is heavily hinting that it is Obito, but then again, he still hasn't taken off the mask.


----------



## Escargon (Aug 12, 2012)

Zetamancer said:


> Given the fact that Tobi fought with Minato when Naruto was born. And Tobi was a full grown man. Obito would've been missing a head on Minato.
> 
> But I'm sure you'll make something up to ignore that. Please do so now.
> 
> Oh, missed that part at the bottom. Still the biggest BS explanation ever though. I knew you wouldn't let down. Didn't any of you learn from the "Akatsuki Leader is the 4th hokage!" theories?



Every BS explanation is used in other mangas, trust me. Be prepared for Oro scroll being time travel.

And yeah, that BS explanation, i just used Sarcasmnojutsu:<


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 12, 2012)




----------



## Escargon (Aug 12, 2012)

Seriously poor Kakashi

Well im off playing d3, this forum is going wild :S


----------



## Let'sFightingLove (Aug 12, 2012)

*Tobi is definitely Obito*

Link removed

'Hn, Entrusted? 'If you ended up neglecting your promise what would they think?'

Link removed

'The wish is entrusted'

For further evidence, consider 

Link removed

'the hollow reality is there waiting, both the ones entrusting and the ones entrusted will be hollow.'

Link removed

While speaking to Kakashi he says 'You've seen reality...You should be able to understand'

Now tobi states Kakashi should be able to understand him. For Kakashi to know what he's talking about(Tobi), Kakashi would have had to experience the same thing. This same thing could've been what Tobi was referring to as 'both the ones entrusting and the ones entrusted will be hollow' 

Suppose the reality Tobi is speaking of is one where Kakashi failed to protect what was entrusted to him, she died as a result, and Obito resents him as a result.


Rin died, Kakashi lied, and Tobi is Obito.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 12, 2012)

Let'sFightingLove said:


> Rin died, Kakashi lied, and Tobi is Obito.



Sums it up quite nicely.


----------



## RaidenisDead (Aug 12, 2012)

No need to jump to conclusions. Nothing is confirmed other than them sharing Obito's eyes. (Most likely)
For all we know, it could be a red herring. We're close to the big reveal and Kishi might see this as the time to throw us off.


----------



## Jesus (Aug 12, 2012)

I agree, OP. The dialogue in this week's chapter makes it obvious, just like Pain's dialogue made it obvious that he was Nagato.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 12, 2012)

Let'sFightingLove said:


> Link removed
> 
> 'Hn, Entrusted? 'If you ended up neglecting your promise what would they think?'
> 
> ...



The wish is entrusted means nothing.  Despite Tobi angsty rant to Kakashi.    It's Asuma's father because he hasn't been seen and it can't be Obito.


----------



## Palpatine (Aug 12, 2012)

I'm pretty certain it's Obito at this point as well. But it likely won't be confirmed until we see his face.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 12, 2012)

That was the first time since Kakashi Gaiden that those two eyes looked at each other again.

Quite a significant moment, as I suspected even back then.


----------



## Shaz (Aug 12, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> It's Asuma's father because he hasn't been seen and it can't be Obito.




lolwat? **


----------



## RaidenisDead (Aug 12, 2012)

He was talking to Naruto. Besides the word wasn't even in a word bubble originally. There are also translations to factor in.


----------



## AlphaReaver (Aug 12, 2012)

TOBITO LIVES!!!! Dat 2Face Splitscreen Panel!!


----------



## jacamo (Aug 12, 2012)

yes, Tobi is using Obito's eye... but nothing else was confirmed


*Spoiler*: __ 



yet...


----------



## son_michael (Aug 12, 2012)

Its obito alright, its the only thing that makes sense.


----------



## Hoshigaki Kisame (Aug 12, 2012)

Kishi is trying to make us think Tobi's Obito, but I don't think he is. Tobi has his eye and maybe his body, but he isn't Obito in mind and soul. If Tobi is using Obito's body, then someone else is inhabiting it.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 12, 2012)

HeLLzRoLLinG said:


> Kishi is trying to make us think Tobi's Obito, but I don't think he is. Tobi has his eye and maybe his body, but he isn't Obito in mind and soul. If Tobi is using Obito's body, then someone else is inhabiting it.



What would someone inhabiting Obito's body entrust to Kakashi?  You guys are not being realistic.

There are so many things in Kakashi Gaiden in this chapter it's just too hard to deny.  Entrusting wishes, hope and future etc.  

Why would Tobi interrupt Kakashi's guess at who Tobi was and rant about Kakashi and entrusting promises and etc.  I doubt Kakashi had told anyone about those experiences with Obito even if they know he mourned at his grave.


----------



## AMtrack (Aug 12, 2012)

Oh the denial lol..its sad but hilarious


----------



## redman919 (Aug 12, 2012)

Yesssss Obito lives~~~~

It's finally Kakashi's year


----------



## Let'sFightingLove (Aug 12, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> What would someone inhabiting Obito's body entrust to Kakashi?  You guys are not being realistic.
> 
> There are so many things in Kakashi Gaiden in this chapter it's just too hard to deny.  Entrusting wishes, hope and future etc.
> 
> Why would Tobi interrupt Kakashi's guess at who Tobi was and rant about Kakashi and entrusting promises and etc.  I doubt Kakashi had told anyone about those experiences with Obito even if they know he mourned at his grave.



someones been reading my thread, haha.


----------



## Kusa (Aug 12, 2012)

No I still don't.I think he just stole his eyes and thats it.Him knowing Kakashi doesn't speak for it at all,because he knows everyone very well he knows their weakness and this was Kakashis weakness.He used Kakashis pain as an opportunity to convice him with his moon eye plan that could make his wishes come true.It was not because he is Obito who is mad at Kakashi that he couldn't make his words true.


----------



## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

Anyone that would reread the kakashi gaiden and then read any tobi with kakashi interactuon afterwards would know tobi is Obito.a


----------



## Scizor (Aug 12, 2012)

This chapter convinced me that Tobi is Obito. The way the spoilers worded it, there was still room for doubt, but the actual dialogue along with the panels essence made it quite clear for me, too.


----------



## Kishido (Aug 12, 2012)

Whoever still think it is *just *Obito's eye while someone else was stalking Kakashi all the time is in denial


----------



## tupadre97 (Aug 12, 2012)

Let'sFightingLove said:


> Link removed
> 
> 'Hn, Entrusted? 'If you ended up neglecting your promise what would they think?'
> 
> ...



If Tobi is Obito: How was he controlling the 4th mizukage prior to the 4th ninja war, how did he give nagato his eyes, how did he become grown in 1 year, attack the village, and orchestrate the destruction of his entire clan, how would madara know him, how would he know madara is alive, how would he know the story of the sage and his sons. There are so many holes in the Tobito theory it would absolutely destroy this manga more than the 4th ninja war has. Ppl that think Tobi=Obito are retarded.


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Aug 12, 2012)

Sticking by our guns = denial 

Never change NF.


----------



## Kishido (Aug 12, 2012)

tupadre97 said:


> If Tobi is Obito: How was he controlling the 4th mizukage prior to the 4th ninja war, how did he give nagato his eyes, how did he become grown in 1 year, attack the village, and orchestrate the destruction of his entire clan, how would madara know him, how would he know madara is alive, how would he know the story of the sage and his sons. There are so many holes in the Tobito theory it would absolutely destroy this manga more than the 4th ninja war has. Ppl that think Tobi=Obito are retarded.



This has to be answered... But this TOBI lied all the time so who the fuck knows if he has done all stuff or maybe still Madara prior ro his death


----------



## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

it astounds me that some anti tobito theorist still cannot differentiate between the actions that were taken by Madara with those taken by Obito

did people just forget that tobi was impersonating madara?


----------



## Kishido (Aug 12, 2012)

I don't doubt the Obito theory anymore but there a lot of questions... So you may to explain who did what in the past

Itachi flashback
Mizukage
Nagato/Rinnegan stuff and so on


----------



## ShenLong Kazama (Aug 12, 2012)

It's likely but still not confirmed. So i think it's another character who stole Obito's right eye.


----------



## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

KiShiDo said:


> I don't doubt the Obito theory anymore but there a lot of questions... So you may to explain who did what in the past
> 
> Itachi flashback
> Mizukage
> Nagato/Rinnegan stuff and so on



There are multiple ways you can answer these.

1 Madara was still alive or the person behind the mask was a zetsu copy down to madara's very chakra.

2 same as above

3 Madara gave Nagato the rinnegan not tobi.


----------



## Kusa (Aug 12, 2012)

I still don't think so,If it's the case  Kishi I would totally lost interest in Tobi and pray that the manga would just become about Sasuke.


----------



## Ziek (Aug 12, 2012)

Link removed

Look at the bottom panel. Somewhat foreshadowing.

Edit: Well the entire page actually.


----------



## Scizor (Aug 12, 2012)

*[Chapter 597] Tobi being Obito: convincing or red herrings?*

This chapter convinced me that Tobi is Obito, but I can understand those who are still skeptical, though most theories certainly lost at least some believability in chapter 597 in my eyes. This makes the Tobi's identity debate a little easier as it pushes one to a side:

So, what do you think: does chapter 597 convince you that Tobi is Obito or does it contain red herrings?

If you pick 'red herrings', please elaborate on who you do think Tobi is based on that Kishi is apparently trying to throw us off in your opinion.


----------



## Penance (Aug 12, 2012)

I do.........


----------



## Golden Circle (Aug 12, 2012)

> Tobi is definitely Obito


Nah, he's definitely ur mom.


----------



## Penance (Aug 12, 2012)

I agree, OP...


----------



## Golden Circle (Aug 12, 2012)

There are still too many plotholes for Tobi to be 100% Obito.

There is more to him than that.


----------



## Thdyingbreed (Aug 12, 2012)

Red herring.

I'm not going to believe he's Obito until it's outright stated that he is all that was confirmed was he's using Obito's eye.


----------



## Edo Madara (Aug 12, 2012)

HeLLzRoLLinG said:


> Kishi is trying to make us think Tobi's Obito, but I don't think he is. Tobi has his eye and maybe his body, but he isn't Obito in mind and soul. If Tobi is using Obito's body, then someone else is inhabiting it.



Agreed, kishi playing mind games with you tobito theorists 
It still doesn't change anything, its just confirmed tobi using obito's eye like many people on this forum predicted


----------



## Edo Madara (Aug 12, 2012)

Kool-Aid said:


> how could tobi know what kakashi is doing at the grave, unless he's a stalker. it had to be someone with him there.



Tobi is kakashi's neighbor


----------



## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

The red herring was tobi being madara.


----------



## BlazingCobaltX (Aug 12, 2012)

I used to be on the Tobi = Izuna-side, but now I'm doubting it. I can actually believe Tobi = Obito now.


----------



## Deaf Ninja Reaper (Aug 12, 2012)

After this chapter, I didn't want to believe that Tobi is Obito but for my mental health's sake, I have to prepare myself for it to be confirmed soon.. 

I'm 90% certain that he is Obito.


----------



## Wiseman Deathphantom (Aug 12, 2012)

Even if it's Obito's body and "mind", Tobi is basically a different person now, completely different from the Gaiden-period Obito.


----------



## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

The red herring was tobi being Madara.


----------



## emperor_blade (Aug 12, 2012)

about the 'he was born with the eye, he didn't get it'. The wording has been used before.
Itachi said Sasuke "And one day, when _you have the same eyes as me_, come before _me_."  using 'when' for a change in his eyes.


On the other hand, if it's not a transferred eye......why doesn't Tobi's eye go back to normal in non-fighting mode?


----------



## Rika24 (Aug 12, 2012)

Deaf Ninja Reaper said:


> After this chapter, I didn't want to believe that Tobi is Obito but for my mental health's sake, I have to prepare myself for it to be confirmed soon..
> 
> I'm 90% certain that he is Obito.



ditto that sadly


----------



## RaidenisDead (Aug 12, 2012)

It's just funny at this point. Everybody arguing about this Obito stuff & Kishi has left us right on the edge with it, as if it's on purpose. I can't wait for the reveal.


----------



## Let'sFightingLove (Aug 12, 2012)

Penance said:


> I agree, OP...



damn it. I should stop making my threads so convincing, no one is really disagreeing, it's kind of boring.


----------



## crisler (Aug 12, 2012)

i used to believe that wrinkles in tobis' face was a clear sign that he wasn't obito, but maybe that might not be from old age but from scars...that boulder thing. you know, when you get burned, your skin kinda gets older...

however his attitude in dealing with minato didn't seem like a former student...
tobi using obitos' body may seem plausible..in fact, pretty highly now...


----------



## NO (Aug 12, 2012)

Let'sFightingLove said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks man.


----------



## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

emperor_blade said:


> about the 'he was born with the eye, he didn't get it'. The wording has been used before.
> Itachi said Sasuke "And one day, when _you have the same eyes as me_, come before _me_."  using 'when' for a change in his eyes.
> 
> 
> On the other hand, if it's not a transferred eye......why doesn't Tobi's eye go back to normal in non-fighting mode?



who's to say it doesnt?  the panels zhowing his eyes are meant to focus on the sharingan after all. Not to mention that if it was not activated we would t be able to see his eye due to the darkness of the mask.


----------



## Csdabest (Aug 12, 2012)

im pretty sure Tobi is Izuna.


----------



## Wraith_Madara (Aug 12, 2012)

I'm ready if he is.

But I'm holding on to my opinion. This chapter was basically a sledgehammer trying to hammer down the possibility in our heads. Maybe I'll wake up tomorrow and it will all be a last herring.

And if the worst should happen, the end of the chapter gave me 10% more hope that TnJ Tobi isn't an option. He has to be "destroyed". As long as he isn't TnJ:ed, I can suffer his identity... with a darn good explanation, mind you.


----------



## LelouchIsZero (Aug 12, 2012)

Q. Has Tobi's eye ever been seen in its normal form? Doesn't that suggest that the eye might not be his due to the fact that its seemingly permanently active?


----------



## αshɘs (Aug 12, 2012)

Tobi being Madara was the red herring. And I think one is more than enough. Really, this whole Tobi identity misery had been going on for several hundred chapters and years. After all this time the reveal has to be effective. Something that has an emotional impact on both the readers and the characters. Him being Izuna or Kagami or whoever wouldn't achieve that at all, it would be anticlimatic.


----------



## bearzerger (Aug 12, 2012)

Red herring. There are just too many inconsistencies about Tobito. The mess with the timeline the contradictions in their personalities atc. Too much to be just explained away.

At this point I no longer have any idea who Tobi is. I'm pretty much reduced to grasping at straws like say Konohamaru's father, Obito's father, Uchiha Kagami and so on.


----------



## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

Didnt I just answer that? lol


----------



## Oahgneg (Aug 12, 2012)

If Obito is Tobi, then Obito _DEFINITELY HAS *THREE* SHARINGAN EYES_

One was taken by Kakashi, then Tobi had *TWO* until he used Izanagi in the fight vs Konan


----------



## Mariko (Aug 12, 2012)

tupadre97 said:


> If Tobi is Obito: How was he controlling the 4th mizukage prior to the 4th ninja war, how did he give nagato his eyes, how did he become grown in 1 year, attack the village, and orchestrate the destruction of his entire clan, how would madara know him, how would he know madara is alive, how would he know the story of the sage and his sons. There are so many holes in the Tobito theory it would absolutely destroy this manga more than the 4th ninja war has. Ppl that think Tobi=Obito are retarded.



This.

I can't even see what can makes you believe guys such an inconsistant plot twist.

There is absolutely nothing that goes this way. On the contrary, every facts actually proven in the manga tend to prove otherwise...

Only the name "tobi" (bito=>Obito), wich is with his dojutsu just to lure the less attentive fans (the younger, most likely).

*
This is as inconsistant as having said "100% proved, Danzo is Shisui" the chapter it was stated that he took his eye... *

(With all the denials about timeline, the age and the appearance of the caracters ect...)

C'mon folks, wake up!


----------



## Draffut (Aug 12, 2012)

tupadre97 said:


> If Tobi is Obito: How was he controlling the 4th mizukage prior to the 4th ninja war, how did he give nagato his eyes, how did he become grown in 1 year, attack the village, and orchestrate the destruction of his entire clan, how would madara know him, how would he know madara is alive, how would he know the story of the sage and his sons. There are so many holes in the Tobito theory it would absolutely destroy this manga more than the 4th ninja war has. Ppl that think Tobi=Obito are retarded.



Who ever said that everything Tobi's ever done has been Obito?  Even people who followed this theory closely don't think the "Tobi" that Itachi found was the same one.  Madara's recent revelation that he died not to long ago, knowing of Nagato, further supports this.

The theory is that the current Tobi is Obito.  

My personal version of this is that Madara and Zetsu saved Obito from the Boulder, rebuilt him, and trained him as his apprentice/replacement Darth Vader style.  When Madara died not to long ago (sometime after Itachi met him) Obito took over.  This leads into his whole rejoining Akatsuki after Sasori's death.



Oahgneg said:


> If Obito is Tobi, then Obito _DEFINITELY HAS *THREE* SHARINGAN EYES_
> 
> One was taken by Kakashi, then Tobi had *TWO* until he used Izanagi in the fight vs Konan



He used his covered eye which he can easily replace with the hundred+ Sharingans he has in jars.  The eye that Tobito theory revolves around has not been destroyed yet.


----------



## Jay Kay (Aug 12, 2012)

*Kishimoto could totally just be messing with you people*

I mean, he's giving you those massive "clues" to Tobi's undentity. He's borderline TELLING you it's Obito, yet, at the same time, he's keeping the suspense going and the mask on all the time?

Come on. This is "messing with your readers" 101. Kishi's not an idiot, he clearly has an agenda here. He's just playing with your expectations.

Besides, Tobi's been shown to have a massive collection of sharingan eyes. Dude's a scavenger. Obito's eye could just be one of them.

I'm not saying "it's not Obito 10000% proven". Just pointing this out.

On the other hand, one could say it's just a simple shonen manga...no need to dig that deep...


----------



## Oahgneg (Aug 12, 2012)

My post as copied from the 'Tobi is definitely Obito' thread



Oahgneg said:


> If Obito is Tobi, then Obito _DEFINITELY HAS *THREE* SHARINGAN EYES_
> 
> One was taken by Kakashi, then Tobi had *TWO* until he used Izanagi in the fight vs Konan


----------



## Hikarigaiden (Aug 12, 2012)

Yo

It seems what you make of Tobi having Obito's eye depends on where you stood before.
The people who believe he is Obito are reinforced in that belief, and the ones who does not are also.

I got into the Tobito-discussion very late, but what's striking to me is that when presented with say  (some arguments there are not that strong, some are), people have to come up with explanations so far-fetched and intricate, you might as well claim Ten Ten is Tobi.

The way I see it, Tobi having Obito's eye is just another indicator he is not Obito.


----------



## TobiSO6P (Aug 12, 2012)

Whoever this dude is, he found Obito's eye and implanted it and I'm pretty sure there's more behind it.
I know deep inside it's burning but that's reality just like Tobi explained lol


----------



## Deleted member 45015 (Aug 12, 2012)

Red herring.

The same way Deva Pein _conveniently _looked like Minato when in shadow, Tobi _conveniently _was designed with a similar hairstyle to Obito and one eye.


----------



## Yuna (Aug 12, 2012)

Why did this need *another* thread and *another* poll?


----------



## bearzerger (Aug 12, 2012)

Yuna said:


> Why did this need *another* thread and *another* poll?



There can never be enough Tobito threads.


----------



## Let'sFightingLove (Aug 12, 2012)

ero_luffy said:


> Only the name "tobi" (bito=>Obito), wich is with his dojutsu just to lure the less attentive fans (the younger, most likely).



No I think Kishimoto actually thought his readers wouldn't notice.


----------



## Danchou (Aug 12, 2012)

lol, Tobi is Obito. Called that ish for lulz ages ago.


----------



## Trent (Aug 12, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> The wish is entrusted means nothing.  Despite Tobi angsty rant to Kakashi.    It's Asuma's father because he hasn't been seen and it can't be Obito.



You mean_* Konohamaru*_'s father. The 3rd was Asuma's father.


----------



## Mateush (Aug 12, 2012)

Yes Tobi is definitely Obito. After this I can't imagine Kishi would make Tobi's mask comes off just to tell readers "I cut my hair so it looks like Obito, I know all about Kakashi because Zetsu recorded everything. Haha, you're trolled". No it's about time to accept that he is Obito or largely part of him, otherwise I would be very surprised.


----------



## Star★Platinum (Aug 12, 2012)

597: Turns out they use the same eye.

600: Tobi had obito's eye because!.... he is obito.  /Noshit!

Kishi: _Shocking reveal, Readers?!?!?!?!_
Such a reveal..


----------



## Chuck (Aug 12, 2012)

Kishi put a lot of thought into this, then I hope he doesn't disappoint.


----------



## Hossaim (Aug 12, 2012)

X Itachi X said:


> 597: Turns out they use the same eye.
> 
> 600: Tobi had obito's eye because he is obito.  /Noshit!
> 
> ...



This. We need a suprise turn.

Izuna, this is your moment!

Or gaara. iv always thought Gaara was Tobi.


----------



## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

no worries they still claim he is not obito even after we get flashbacks about Rin. It's funny how anti tobito theorists have forgotten that how kakashi got the MS and what happened to rin hasnt been revealed yet. What a perfect time for this info to come to light.


----------



## kingcools (Aug 12, 2012)

tupadre97 said:


> If Tobi is Obito: How was he controlling the 4th mizukage prior to the 4th ninja war, how did he give nagato his eyes, how did he become grown in 1 year, attack the village, and orchestrate the destruction of his entire clan, how would madara know him, how would he know madara is alive, how would he know the story of the sage and his sons. There are so many holes in the Tobito theory it would absolutely destroy this manga more than the 4th ninja war has. Ppl that think Tobi=Obito are retarded.



oh lol, and you dont think kishi will explain all this? dude, its right in your face, we can not tell you how those questions you raised are answered, but kishi can. Just wait and see, the evidence for obito = tobi is bulletproof.
there arent alot of holes in the theory, only one would him growing in 1 year(no idea if thats true btw), but maybe zetzu has something to do with that, and elsewise thats not really a plothole


----------



## Mariko (Aug 12, 2012)

Nic said:


> no worries they still claim he is not obito even after we get flashbacks about Rin. *It's funny how anti tobito theorists have forgotten that how kakashi got the MS and what happened to rin hasnt been revealed yet.* What a perfect time for this info to come to light.



I don't get the point Nic.

I don't see in what these flashback would necessary prove that Tobi is obito.

Precisely as you said it: we dont know how he got the MS and what happened to Rin.

You talk as if you were Evil and had already seen those part of the manga... 

Erratics argument are erratics


----------



## Star★Platinum (Aug 12, 2012)

Hossaim said:


> *Or gaara. iv always thought Gaara was Tobi.*



Son, you just went full retarded.
NEVER go full retarded.


----------



## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

The 5 stages of grief.  Always starts with denial and ends with acceptance.


----------



## Saizo sarutobi (Aug 12, 2012)

I have a bad feeling that even after Tobi is reaveled to *REALLY *being Obito,some people will deny it :-/


----------



## Let'sFightingLove (Aug 12, 2012)

ero_luffy said:


> I don't get the point Nic.
> 
> I don't see in what these flashback would necessary prove that Tobi is obito.
> 
> ...



he means there's a reason those events haven't been explained yet. They're being saved for a good opportunity to be brought up. and I can't think of a better one than after Tobi reveals himself to be Obito.


----------



## narutored23 (Aug 12, 2012)

*reclarfication maybe tobi isnt obito*

Like many say they do as one forumer put it it could very well be obito's eye just bring kakashi's mental state down or isn't obito himself just his body doing the dirty work.

 those who awaken both MS in each eye can awaken Susanoo!!!
Tobi probably knows to much about kakashi

Just like how kakashi question the eye motive

 those who awaken both MS in each eye can awaken Susanoo!!!

Kakashi asked where did tobi get that eye and tobi even admitted at the bridge meaning he could've very well got it from obito or the fact obito could very well be zetsu by this goop presented at this page 

those who awaken both MS in each eye can awaken Susanoo!!!


----------



## kingcools (Aug 12, 2012)

the only reason kishi showed kakashi gaiden was to introduce obito, elsewise it makes no sense plotwise


----------



## Hossaim (Aug 12, 2012)

X Itachi X said:


> Son, you just went full retarded.
> NEVER go full retarded.


It's as viable as any other time travel theory


----------



## OgreMagi (Aug 12, 2012)

no way, there is too much that just doesn't make sense.  Once upon a time I thought it was obito but not anymore   I do think he has obito's eye though..potentially the body..but not the soul.


----------



## Blur (Aug 12, 2012)

What if there is a character called Tobi, and he is, you know, Tobi? :ho


----------



## Mariko (Aug 12, 2012)

kingcools said:


> the only reason kishi showed kakashi gaiden was to introduce obito, elsewise it makes no sense plotwise



Nope! 

It was to explain Kakashi's nindo. (and sharingan).

If obito's the final villain, I would thing I've wasted 10 years of my life reading such a crap.

I'll feel exactly the same -even in worst- as i felt seeing Lost's last season...


----------



## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

omg some guy is duping a million accounts just to vote no.   look at all the fake accounts viewing this thread.


----------



## Yakkai (Aug 12, 2012)

The very fact he's making it so obviously Obito makes me think its someone else.


----------



## Star★Platinum (Aug 12, 2012)

Hossaim said:


> It's as viable as any other time travel theory



So.. Not viable at all then.


----------



## Mateush (Aug 12, 2012)

As I said I can't imagine he cut his hair just because it would look exactly like Obito's. And plotwise so Obito seems most likely. Right now evidence is heavier than him not being Obito.


----------



## kingcools (Aug 12, 2012)

ero_luffy said:


> Nope!
> 
> It was to explain Kakashi's nindo. (and sharingan).
> 
> ...


 
no, using it for the sharingan is bad, because it does nothing for the plot. It only gives kakashi a backstory, but that would be bad writing, because if its only backstory and not plot its bad.
there is nothing crappy about obito being tobi.


----------



## Viper (Aug 12, 2012)

narutored23 said:


> Like many say they do as one forumer put it it could very well be obito's eye just bring kakashi's mental state down or isn't obito himself just his body doing the dirty work.
> 
> those who awaken both MS in each eye can awaken Susanoo!!!
> Tobi probably knows to much about kakashi
> ...


Oh my lord, just give up.


----------



## Star★Platinum (Aug 12, 2012)

It's his eye, if it IS Obito, it's merely his body.
Going evil because of Rin's death alone is fucking stupid.


----------



## narutored23 (Aug 12, 2012)

Viper said:


> Oh my lord, just give up.



It true based on the goo part


----------



## Edward Nygma (Aug 12, 2012)

Ziek said:


> Link removed
> 
> Look at the bottom panel. Somewhat foreshadowing.
> 
> Edit: Well the entire page actually.



That's not foreshadowing, this is foreshadowing!


[sp=Tag yo' shit]



[/sp]


----------



## Recal (Aug 12, 2012)

*Common name*: Tobi

*Unofficial name*: Tobito

*Scientific name*: clupea rubra

*IUCN status*: endangered


----------



## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

how quickly people forget nagato.


----------



## kingcools (Aug 12, 2012)

Datenshi Uchiha said:


> That's not foreshadowing, this is foreshadowing!
> 
> 
> [sp]
> ...



thats not foreshadowing.
"Foreshadowing or adumbrating is a literary device in which an author indistinctly suggests certain plot developments that will come later in the story."
the picture you posted did not suggest any development plotwise


----------



## King Scoop (Aug 12, 2012)

Kishi's mysteries have always been obvious.


----------



## Edward Nygma (Aug 12, 2012)

kingcools said:


> thats not foreshadowing.
> "Foreshadowing or adumbrating is a literary device in which an author indistinctly suggests certain plot developments that will come later in the story."
> the picture you posted did not suggest any development plotwise



The last one is. It is an obvious reference to the first two, both of which show Kakashi and Obito together. So it is foreshadowing the future reunion of Kakashi and Obito.


----------



## kingcools (Aug 12, 2012)

Datenshi Uchiha said:


> The last one is. It is an obvious reference to the first two, both of which show Kakashi and Obito together. So it is foreshadowing the future reunion of Kakashi and Obito.



it is not foreshadowing, the last picture is the "present", so it can not foreshadow to a past event


----------



## Mariko (Aug 12, 2012)

To be kind with the Rin's plot arguers, I would say that Tobi's rin's father who took Obito's eye to avenge his daughter who was not protected by Kakashi, as the latter had promised...

Wich would be very... Pathetic!!!


----------



## emperor_blade (Aug 12, 2012)

I think it has a lot to do with Obito, but I don't think that it's him in the literal sense.

How about that other dimension? Maybe something is wandering over there... spirits trying to get back... Uchiha.... Also Sasuke was there for a while.... Tobi's multiple personalities, other bodies, ...


----------



## Hikarigaiden (Aug 12, 2012)

Yo

It seems what you make of Tobi having Obito's eye depends on where you stood before.
The people who believe he is Obito are reinforced in that belief, and the ones who does not are also.

I got into the Tobito-discussion very late, but what's striking to me is that when presented with say  (some arguments there are not that strong, some are), people have to come up with explanations so far-fetched and intricate, you might as well claim Ten Ten is Tobi.

The way I see it, Tobi [stopping by Kannabi Bridge to add to his eye collection]  is just another indicator he is not Obito.


----------



## DeathScream (Aug 12, 2012)

As i sayed before, Obito didn't died, after kakashi and rin manaed to escape from that deathtrap, Zetsu Probbaly found him and healed him, but since he was preety fucked he stayed in the shadows, thus if he decided to return to his family probbaly the uchihas would treat him with disdain since he was treated as the worse ninja in the family, imagine the post-war trauma, be received as nobody by your own family, not as a hero but as a Deserter, thus probbaly he heard that Rin Died in the war Too(meaning that his prommise was useless since everyone, even his firend from the academy died in the battlefield too alone and forgotten), obito was like naruto, but sometimes when you felt betrayed by everything that you believed, you become vile and evil.



*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Edo Madara (Aug 12, 2012)

the reason on why I think tobito is stupid



Edo Madara said:


> well yea actually tobito theory was serious back in the day when he first appeared, not just in this forum but fans around the world thought he's obito
> 
> its starting to became a joke when tobi began to acted like Madara, knew everything about madara himself and ninja world, created Akatsuki, and become the real caused of kyubi attack to the point people can't take him being obito seriously anymore


----------



## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

gosh i hate polls that are ruined by dupes.   it's started 20-5 now it's 14-23


----------



## joshhookway (Aug 12, 2012)

No, all the evidence points to Obito


He got it from the bridge: Tobi meant that he unlocked it's powers after the bridge

Kakashi sweating is actually the main giving away. Kakashi never had a sweat in the battle against Pein even though he was killed.


Kakashi says: "You're" possibly obito

Tobi gives the rant


----------



## PikaCheeka (Aug 12, 2012)

Your options suck.

I don't think he's Obito, but I think calling everything a "red herring" just sounds like damage control. Obito's eye? Yes. Possibly some of his memories if he's a conglomerate being? Yes, but I don't think that's the case.

I think it's just Tobi being his usual manipulative self. His words could apply to Izuna and Madara just as easily as they could to Tobi and Kakashi.



Nic said:


> gosh i hate polls that are ruined by dupes.   it's started 20-5 now it's 14-23



My theory isn't as popular as expected! Everyone who disagrees is a dupe!


----------



## TroLLSama (Aug 12, 2012)

No, tobi is shinobi from Iwa.


----------



## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

PikaCheeka said:


> Your options suck.
> 
> I don't think he's Obito, but I think calling everything a "red herring" just sounds like damage control. Obito's eye? Yes. Possibly some of his memories if he's a conglomerate being? Yes, but I don't think that's the case.
> 
> ...



no i was checking people's profiles and most people had 0 posts.   besides the obvious evidence with the pole turning from 5-20 to 18-25 like this.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 12, 2012)

Why would Tobi do the things that he does if it's not Obito's mind?

First the costume that's built around Obito's eye.  Why would someone who just has his eye or body do that?

Why would someone with Obito's eye or body not only have person issues with Kakashi but know things that Kakashi likely never talked about such as promises to protect Rin?

Why would someone who's not Obito forgo using ninjutus, functioning sharingans and Rinnengan's to near exclusively use of Obito's eye??

Why would the all Kakashi Gaiden themes be regurgitated by Tobi such as wishes and promises entrusted, hope and future in a rant at Kakashi?  

Realistic time line.

Madara loses to Hashirama many years ago but gets some of his wood juice.

Madara starts experiments with Senju DNA from what he learns on Uchiha tablet expectation but fails to make anything more than Zetsu maybe from a grass village ninja.

Madara does either experiments with close Senju relative by giving his old eyes or base Uchiha eyes to son of a Uzumaki, Nagato.  Or does the unthinkable for a Uchiha and purposely sires a child with a Uzumaki woman.

Madara becomes the secret leader of Kirigakure at some point and the Bloody Mist based on Uchiha legacy to awaken MS.

Somewhere along the line Madara decided he wants to do the Moons Eye plan.

Nagato awakens his rinnegan but disappears in the war and thought dead.

Nagato is rediscovered after Yahiko starts or is beginning to organize Akatsuki.  Rumors of a new or rediscovered doujutsu lets Madara know it's Nagato.

Madara at this point is older and can't travel to go see Nagato in a war torn country.

Madara has continued to work on obtaining his own rinnegan and is discovered and spied on by Oro.

Madara is given wounded body of Obito discovered by Zetsu.  Possible that Obito's eye is special that it awakened MS instead of 3 tomes just like it skip having 1 tome and his ability to go intangible is what saved him which peaked Zetsu's interest.  

Madara begins his mind fucking of Obito and has Rin murdered by Kirigakure and negotiates with the Leaf making the Leaf look bad for lack of vengeance or tricks Obito kill Rin.

Obito buys into the Moons Eye plan to kill the ninja system and abandons the Hidden Leaf but lurks around to learn from Uchiha Tablet and spies on Kakashi.  

Madara awakens his rinnegan after years but is too old and makes a plan with Obito to influence Nagato to bring him back to life.  He orders Obito to wear a mask and grow his hair out to take his place and taught about Madara's life.

Naruto's birth day comes around and Madara sends Obito to get the Kyuubi using his MS.  

Madara dies at some point after this.

Obito begins to manipulate Nagato using his intangibility to make them think he's all powerful Madara.  He pushes the idea of the Moons Eye plan for peace which appeals to Nagato.  He orders Nagato to start adding missing nin to Akatsuki.

Obito comes out to Kisame and begins to manipulate him to join Akatsuki.

Obito is discovered by Itachi and decides to help Itachi with is plan so he can obtain sharingans.  Obito is afraid of Itachi's power and follows along with not attacking the Leaf.

Obito implants sharingan eye for Izanagi

Obito orders Nagato to start collecting tailed beast.

Obito starts production of Zetsu clones once beast start being captured and put into Gedo Mazo.

Obito decides to infiltrate Akatsuki as Tobi after death of members.

Obito sees power in Sasuke and wants to use him to remove Itachi since Itachi is bent on dying to Sasuke anyway.

Obito after Deidara fight pretends to be dead and begins to command directly Nagato.

Obito blocks Leaf ninja's from stopping Itachi's production and death.

Obito after Itachi's death Obito starts to come out as Madara.  

Obito shows Kisame his face again.

Obito influences Sasuke by telling him Itachi's story so he won't go back to the Leaf so he won't be an obstacle and to gain a strong ally.  He sends him after Killer Bee and Nagato after Naruto.

Obito as Madara has set backs with Nagato and Sasuke's failures.  He decides that war is the only way to bring the jin's out in the open again.  He leads Sasuke to attack Gokoge and Danzo.  He declares war.

Obito is confronted by Kabuto and who shown Madara's coffin to allow Kabuto into the war.

Obito goes to get Nagato's eyes for war and genjutsu and kills Konan.

Obito begins the great ninja war.


----------



## Maunten (Aug 12, 2012)

Obito (awakening his ms when he was about to die and telepoting himself to another dimension).

Relative of obito (awakening MS after hearing of his death from Kakashi who "opens his mouth).


----------



## Vash (Aug 12, 2012)

Nic said:


> no i was checking people's profiles and most people had 0 posts.



And how exactly do you know what profiles to check?


----------



## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

Jak said:


> And how exactly do you know what profiles to check?



  
check at the bottom of this page.


----------



## Vash (Aug 12, 2012)

Nic said:


> check at the bottom of this page.



And you know for sure they voted on the poll?


----------



## kingcools (Aug 12, 2012)

PikaCheeka said:


> My theory isn't as popular as expected! Everyone who disagrees is a dupe!



"theory"

10char


----------



## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

Jak said:


> And you know for sure they voted on the poll?



yeah because it isn't obvious when you're the only one posting in here that doesn't have 0 posts and all of a sudden there's 10 votes added on the poll.


----------



## Vash (Aug 12, 2012)

Nic said:


> yeah because it isn't obvious when you're the only one posting in here that doesn't have 0 posts and all of a sudden there's 10 votes added on the poll.



So you have no actual proof?

Shocking


----------



## mayumi (Aug 12, 2012)

tbi is obviously obito from parallel world.


----------



## Mariko (Aug 12, 2012)

Rainbow Dash said:


> No, he just found Obito's eye.
> 
> 
> Kakashi is on the right hand side, not Obito. *It's showing that Kakashi and Tobi are like two halves of a whole, like Ying and Yang.*



I agree. 

Good sum of the scening...


----------



## PikaCheeka (Aug 12, 2012)

Nic said:


> yeah because it isn't obvious when you're the only one posting in here that doesn't have 0 posts and all of a sudden there's 10 votes added on the poll.



You're really that insecure that you were checking profiles? 

And I've seen dozens of posters coming out of the woodwork from years ago with 0-100 posts. I've also seen quite a few people join exactly because of this revelation. Just because they're new doesn't mean they're a dupe. Every time there's a huge event in the manga, we seem to get a lot of newbies, usually people who have been lurking for months who finally found something they want to get in on.

But yea, no proof on your part anyway. We don't know who voted.


----------



## Kali95 (Aug 12, 2012)

Woah, the logical option is actually winning by a decent amount. Nice to see that about 60% of the people here aren't brain dead.


----------



## fredygulf (Aug 12, 2012)

hi guys, been hovering on this site for long, so this is my first comment.
There are too many plot holes for Tobi being Obito, but after read this chapter it is obvious that Kishi move on to that direction.
So I did some small research on Narutopedia, and I got little shock when I found interesting fact that Obito and Izuna sharing the same "birthday and blood type"
As we may aware about Orochimaru relationship with Madara regarding of Edo Tensei, so I tried to make a connection between Edo Tensei, birthday, and blood type, here is come my theory.
Madara was trying very hard to make his brother come back to life. He met Orochimaru and told him about Edo Tensei. As we know Oro did many research regarding this Edo Tensei, he might end up with this conclusion, Edo Tensei will work perfectly if the body and soul share the same blood type and birthday. So Madara has been looking Uchiha that have those requirement and end up with Obito.
He wait until Obito awakened his sharingan, and found him crushed under the rock during kannabi bridge fight.
Here comes my theory regarding who Tobi is. Madara with Orochimaru performed Edo Tensei to bring Izuna back to life using Obito as the living sacrifice thus make Izuna not only life but also share with Obito "body and soul". This theory will fill all the plot holes for Tobi being Obito. This will explain how Obito could match with Minato, and how he knows Kakashi very well...
Feel free to not agree with my theory


----------



## Luxiano (Aug 12, 2012)

Imo Tobi could probably be Kakashi from the future or another plane/dimension , that would make more sense than him being Obito.

That's why he hold some grudge against his old self , I've seen this twist a few times it's not that bad if it's of course well explained.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 12, 2012)

Luxiano said:


> Imo Tobi could probably be Kakashi from the future or another plane/dimension , that would make more sense than him being Obito.



People really believe this?


----------



## kingcools (Aug 12, 2012)

Luxiano said:


> Imo Tobi could probably be Kakashi from the future or another plane/dimension , that would make more sense than him being Obito.




....


----------



## MonkeyDNaruto (Aug 12, 2012)

> chapter references are all from narutobase
> 
> Plothole Number 1: Tobi?s Power Level (chapters 500-504)
> There is no way Obito could turn into an alpha dog shinobi who mastered S/T phasing and teleportation within a 1-2 year time frame. At 15 years old? No way... There is also no way Obito would know how to extract the Kyuubi, hypnotize it, control it like a puppet, and then summon it wherever the hell he wants to. And all of this is supposed to have happened 1-2 years after Obito supposedly died? That?s just not feasible.
> ...




Enough of the Tobito wanking guys


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 12, 2012)

MonkeyDNaruto said:


> Enough of the Tobito wanking guys



All your crying about "plotholes" is not going to change anything.


----------



## MonkeyDNaruto (Aug 12, 2012)

> All your crying about "plotholes" is not going to change anything.


----------



## joshhookway (Aug 12, 2012)

MonkeyDNaruto said:


> Enough of the Tobito wanking guys



That's a one sided arguement.

The Tobi that attacked Konoha was Madara as Minato stated.

You can't believe half the thing Tobito says


----------



## MonkeyDNaruto (Aug 12, 2012)

> That's a one sided arguement.
> 
> The Tobi that attacked Konoha was Madara as Minato stated.
> 
> ...



Oh. So Madara cut his hair, just to look like Tobi.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 12, 2012)

MonkeyDNaruto said:


> le fry face



Shitty image macros aren't going to change anything either.


----------



## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

Jak said:


> So you have no actual proof?
> 
> Shocking



and that explains your reputation.


----------



## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

PikaCheeka said:


> *You're really that insecure that you were checking profiles? *
> 
> And I've seen dozens of posters coming out of the woodwork from years ago with 0-100 posts. I've also seen quite a few people join exactly because of this revelation. Just because they're new doesn't mean they're a dupe. Every time there's a huge event in the manga, we seem to get a lot of newbies, usually people who have been lurking for months who finally found something they want to get in on.
> 
> But yea, no proof on your part anyway. We don't know who voted.



you should be the last person to argue this insecurity issue with all these arrogant comments you make about tobito theorists.


----------



## Faustus (Aug 12, 2012)

*Comes to the telegrams after reading the chapter, hoping the telegrams will be filled with "Tobi is not Obito, Confirmed!"
*Sees this thread
*Moves further.

Meh


----------



## insane111 (Aug 12, 2012)

joshhookway said:


> That's a one sided arguement.
> 
> The Tobi that attacked Konoha was Madara as Minato stated.
> 
> You can't believe half the thing Tobito says



 ...I'd list all the things wrong with this, but I can't tell if it's even serious. Even the people who think it's Obito would say this is nonsense.


----------



## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

again the five stages of grief start with denial and then anger. 

Luckily we won't have to wait much longer, but then again we might have because i coiuld see a situation where tobi looks like obito, claims to be obito and has flashbacks of team minato, and people still arguing he's not obito.


----------



## MonkeyDNaruto (Aug 12, 2012)

> Shitty image macros aren't going to change anything either.



Please. Since you're so informed and intelligent, explain to me how Tobi is Obito. I'm interested. I mean, despite the plot holes, I'm sure you have a plausible explanation.



> ...I'd list all the things wrong with this, but I can't tell if it's even serious. Even the people who think it's Obito would say this is nonsense.



Joshhookway is trolling. I just realized.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 12, 2012)

MonkeyDNaruto said:


> Please. Since you're so informed and intelligent, explain to me how Tobi is Obito. I'm interested. I mean, despite the plot holes, I'm sure you have a plausible explanation.



He has Obito's eye and has some obvious personal connections to Kakashi, there's a massive amount of foreshadowing being done right now.

You're so fixated on "plotholes" you can't see what's right in front of you, and the obvious direction the story is going.


----------



## NW (Aug 12, 2012)

Tobi is Obito.

Deal with it, bitches.

Otherwise...

Izuna: "Kakashi, you bastard! You always talk so flippantly! You regret everything! I want a world free of broken promises where people can be entrusted with things!"

Really?!

Why would Izuna say that?!

And why was Kakashi panting? Don't say it's just cuz Tobi has Obito's eye. He only started panting _after_ Tobi's speech to him.

People are just in absolute denial right now, and I have to say that I'm enjoying every second of it.


----------



## Icegaze (Aug 12, 2012)

Red herrings. Red herrings everywhere!


----------



## Vash (Aug 12, 2012)

Nic said:


> and that explains your reputation.



You crying over make believe dupes explains my reputation?


----------



## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

too much evidence pointing him at obito, can't wait for the next two chapters since that's probably what it will take. 



Jak said:


> You crying over make believe dupes explains my reputation?



whatever helps you sleep at night.


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## Easley (Aug 12, 2012)

I'd say it's 95% likely that Tobi is Obito, but I'm unhappy at how obvious Kishi is being. That has removed any element of surprise now we basically know what's coming.

The other 5% is for possible twists/red herrings. I'd like there to be a shock of some kind, not simply Kakashi reacting to Obito's face. 

Kakashi going on a rampage could be worth it. We rarely see him lose his cool.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 12, 2012)

Easley said:


> I'd say it's 95% likely that Tobi is Obito, but I'm unhappy at how obvious Kishi is being. That has removed any element of surprise now we basically know what's coming.



If there were no foreshadowing people would bitch and moan about how it made no sense/came out of nowhere.


----------



## Mistshadow (Aug 12, 2012)

its not just the eye confirmation though, its the digging at kakashi personally that showstheir connection


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 12, 2012)

Mistshadow said:


> its not just the eye confirmation though, its the digging at kakashi personally that showstheir connection



Indeed, which makes those insisting that Tobi is merely using Obito's eye, but is not truly Obito look even more foolish.


----------



## NW (Aug 12, 2012)

'Nuff said.


----------



## AlphaReaver (Aug 12, 2012)

I Knew It Was Him Ever Since We Saw Dat Mask, Dat Hair, Dat Color Scheme & Dat Behavior. TOBITO LIVES. "Good Eye Kakashi"


----------



## NW (Aug 12, 2012)

For you Anti-Tobito people: How do you explain all the loose ends regarding Obito's supposed death, "dying" with regrets, Kakashi's failure to protect Rin, what even happened to Rin, how Kakashi got MS, and how Tobi is basically referencing all of these in his recent convo with Kakashi?


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## Mistshadow (Aug 12, 2012)

First Tsurugi said:


> Indeed, which makes those insisting that Tobi is merely using Obito's eye, but is not truly Obito look even more foolish.



those are the people who are grasping at straws.

Obito being Tobi makes far more sense than Tobi using Obito's eye or possession.

There was nothing 'special' about obito when he was under the boulder. But To say that Tobi KNEW the special S/T technique that was already in the eye so decided to harvest and train it to MS mode on his own is the crazy theory out there, especially considering that is the eye he is ALWAYS using and makes rotations with only his LEFT eye,conveniently the socket that would be empty in obito. It was a 2 tomoe sharingan, who would go scrounging around boulders for that.
Plus Tobi got the eye at the battle of kanabi bridge, which includes that area Kakashi and Obito were for the cave in. What's more likely, Tobi was spying on them the whole mission during the whole war going wohooo finally a new eye, or Tobi BEING Obito and his reference to it being that was when he activated the eye or even the ms technique.

Most likely Obito survived either be it by hands of Madara, Zetsu who is the land itself, or the spontaneous survival instinct of the sharingan activating MS and S/T away. And that would lead him to knowing what potential and power he has.


----------



## Xerces (Aug 12, 2012)

Anyone who believes Tobi is Obito is falling right into Kishi's hands


----------



## Mistshadow (Aug 12, 2012)

Xerces said:


> Anyone who believes Tobi is Obito is falling right into Kishi's hands



YEA
especially those people who believed tobi is obito before all the evidence was really getting solidified and it was more believed to be izuna or zetsu clone or madara...............


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## First Tsurugi (Aug 12, 2012)

Xerces said:


> Anyone who believes Tobi is Obito is falling right into Kishi's hands



Funny, I was preaching a similar line when everyone was saying Tobi was Madara.


----------



## Kool-Aid (Aug 12, 2012)

major flaw: Obito wouldn't help itachi kill his entire clan and the reasons he told sasuke why he did it don't apply to him and never did.

so if the reasons don't apply then he killed the clan for no reason.


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## Talis (Aug 12, 2012)

Kool-Aid said:


> major flaw: Obito wouldn't help itachi kill his entire clan and the reasons he told sasuke why he did it don't apply to him and never did.


major flaw for you but nothing to Kishi, personally i am sure that the long haired masked man was the real Madara.


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## First Tsurugi (Aug 12, 2012)

Kool-Aid said:


> major flaw: Obito wouldn't help itachi kill his entire clan and the reasons he told sasuke why he did it don't apply to him and never did.
> 
> so if the reasons don't apply then he killed the clan for no reason.



He helped kill the clan because he hated them.

The bigger question is what led to this hatred of the Uchiha.


----------



## Penance (Aug 12, 2012)

Wiseman Deathphantom said:


> Even if it's Obito's body and "mind", Tobi is basically a different person now, completely different from the Gaiden-period Obito.



Excuses, excuses...


----------



## Rick Hunter (Aug 12, 2012)

Well, I'm a bit slow, but I've just realized... "obi"+"to"... reverted... "to""obi", tobi... of course it's him.


----------



## pirres (Aug 12, 2012)

he can be obitos father, or someone older, because he knows everything about uchiha incident + all about madara and sharingan, where did he learned all that? he also said that he gave rinnengan to nagato, + when madara was ressurected he thought tobi was edo tensei user


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## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 12, 2012)

Hmm... Tobi's wording is vague 

He might be referring to awakening the sharingan, in that case he is obito, or that he salvaged it which means he is not obito.

In other words, fuck you Kishi.


Nothing is confirmed.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 12, 2012)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Hmm... Tobi's wording is vague
> 
> He might be referring to awakening the sharingan, in that case he is obito, or that he salvaged it which means he is not obito.
> 
> ...



His other statements should make it clear which possibility is the correct one.


----------



## NW (Aug 12, 2012)

Wiseman Deathphantom said:


> Even if it's Obito's body and mind, Tobi is basically a different person now, completely different from the Gaiden-period Obito.


What do you mean ""mind""?! It IS his mind.

You can say all the shit you want. But Obito is not a completely different person. he IS the Obito from the Gaiden period. You can't just change being the person you are. Neji stopped believing destiny ruled everything. Did we stop calling him Neji? No. Was he still the same Neji? yes. Nagato changed to being good again. Did we stop calling him Nagato? No. Was he still the same person(Nagato)? Yes.

Bottom line: You are in complete denial. Things can happen in a person's life to change their personality and outlook, but it is that actual person and what they're like that allowed what happened to affect him/her in that way. So, yes, Tobi(Obito) is the same Obito as the Gaiden period Obito. There's only one Obito, and he's Tobi.


----------



## Daryoon (Aug 12, 2012)

Kool-Aid said:


> major flaw: Obito wouldn't help itachi kill his entire clan and the reasons he told sasuke why he did it don't apply to him and never did.
> 
> so if the reasons don't apply then he killed the clan for no reason.



Long-Haired Masked Man isn't Tobi. Unless Tobi likes to wear a wig. Long-haired Masked Man has Madara's posture, so he's probably Madara is some shape or form. Given how Orochimaru has recently been revived and shown to have divided his consciousness between vessels, it's quite possible Madara did the same - that how Tobito knew so much about him: he _was_ Madara. Until Kabuto revived Madara, now he's "nobody".

The stories of Obito and Kabuto are going to mirror one another quite well, I think, with Madara and Orochimaru respectively the evil masterminds behind their corruption.


----------



## raz11 (Aug 12, 2012)

Rick Hunter said:


> Well, I'm a bit slow, but I've just realized... "obi"+"to"... reverted... "to""obi", tobi... of course it's him.



Ever since Tobi was introduced, I thought there was some connection. The appearance and the name tobi which is just obito without one O (You know since he only has one eye) rearranged gave it away

The only problem is that during the minato v tobi fight, Tobi is much older than obito if he was to survive that. I'm guessing it is some hybrid of madara/zetzu/rs who just took obito's eye.


----------



## Closet Pervert (Aug 12, 2012)

Nope, still don't believe it.


Xerces said:


> Anyone who believes Tobi is Obito is falling right into Kishi's hands


For once, i agree with you.


----------



## NW (Aug 12, 2012)

People who still don't believe it are ignorant and in denial. Really, WHO THE FUCK ELSE WOULD CARE SO MUCH ABOUT KAKASHI AND SAY THESE THINGS TO HIM?!

You're so in denial that you can't even comprehend what's right there in front of you. Next thing you know, the mask will come off and we'll get his flashbacks, and people will STILL say it's not Obito!


----------



## Setsuna00 (Aug 12, 2012)

Closet Pervert said:


> Nope, still don't believe it.
> For once, i agree with you.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 12, 2012)

I always thought it was likely for several reasons:

- It has to be somebody recognizable
- Manga for children, I doubt the final villain is going to be some obscure dude nobody remembers
- Kishi loves exploring the male bonds in a team.
- None of the other options make sense
- Has the same Sharingan technique Kakashi does
- I don't think Kishimoto wrote the Gaiden for shit and giggles
- Superficial stuff like the name, the mask, the funny attitude and the hair

Now it's practically confirmed he was at the batte where Obito died. So yeah...

The theory is full of holes, but this is Kishi, what did you expect?

Tobi could still be the ramen guy, but I think it's unlikely.


----------



## 8 (Aug 12, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> Tobi could still be the ramen guy, but I think it's unlikely.


it's the fucking ramen guy. 

how else would he know naruto, gai and kakashi so well. and so detailed. because he always listen to all their chat!


----------



## Shakar (Aug 12, 2012)

Sure he is. It's fucking obvious at this point.

LOL the poll sure is split.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 12, 2012)

8 said:


> it's the fucking ramen guy.
> 
> how else would he know naruto, gai and kakashi so well. and so detailed. because he always listen to all their chat!



Holy shit you are right


----------



## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

gabzilla said:


> I always thought it was likely for several reasons:
> 
> - It has to be somebody recognizable
> -* Manga for children, I doubt the final villain is going to be some obscure dude nobody remembers*
> ...


and that's what i've been thinking for some time.  Children aren't going to relate or remember these hints he's giving them while it wouldn't be uncommon for an author to drop those same hints so hardcore readers could figure out the mystery either.


----------



## Menacing Eyes (Aug 12, 2012)

Call it ignorance, call it denial, or whatever else you wish to call it. That's fine with me. Until that mask comes off and he confirms that he is Obito, I'm sticking with Izuna though.

If and when it does and it's Obito and if he has a reasonable back story then I'll accept with open arms.


----------



## Talis (Aug 12, 2012)

The perfect reason for Tobi being Obito is because Tobi is some kind of villian, Kishi probably decided to make another villian in part 2 besides Orochimaru so thats why he started with Obito right when part 2 began in the manga.


----------



## Res1990 (Aug 12, 2012)

i was with tobi being izuna due to his relation with madara but right now its seems that tobi must be obito


----------



## jacamo (Aug 12, 2012)

until Tobi's mask actually comes off and his backstory is confirmed im sticking by my guns that Tobi = Uchiha Kagami = Obito's father





Yakkai said:


> The very fact he's making it so obviously Obito makes me think its someone else.



oh and this


----------



## Gaawa-chan (Aug 12, 2012)

kingcools said:


> thats not foreshadowing.
> "Foreshadowing or adumbrating is a literary device in which an author indistinctly suggests certain plot developments that will come later in the story."
> the picture you posted did not suggest any development plotwise





Oh... I'm not laughing at you; I agree with you there that the word was used incorrectly. I just find this funny for a personal reason... foreshadowing is the reason why I got involved in the Tobito debate when I first joined the forums 5 years ago.  This is what I said:


*Spoiler*: __ 





> Foreshadowing is a key element in many stories. JK Rowling uses it- subtle hints of what is to come. Kishimoto is no exception, but his foreshadowing techniques are anything but subtle. Take, for instance, the Chuunin Exam arc. You meet the Suna siblings at the very beginning. They don't seem very important at first, but they go on to become key players in the story.
> Now, look at what came up in the story after Sasuke left and the Akatsuki halt most of their activity, but before the timeskip where the Akatsuki become very important and the series starts revealing each character.
> The Kakashi Gaiden.
> *We did not have to know about Kakashi's past, unless it would become important after the timeskip.*
> ...






Goodness, reading over that again brings back memories.  :33




Xerces said:


> Anyone who believes Tobi is Obito is falling right into Kishi's hands



What, just like many of the anti-Tobito people tried to argue that Tobi is Madara- btw, there are STILL two posts on the front page of the anti-Tobito FC dedicated to Tobi-Madara in which they also call Tobito followers 'pathetic trash'- only for Kishimoto to prove them wrong.

I don't think that's going to happen this time; it's too close to the reveal that's coming up.




Kool-Aid said:


> major flaw: Obito wouldn't help itachi kill his entire clan and the reasons he told sasuke why he did it don't apply to him and never did.



Because Tobi has never lied about anything. 

All that means is that we can only speculate about his motive- it doesn't mean that there isn't one.


----------



## Hossaim (Aug 12, 2012)

Why Tobito would suck:

Chapter 600, big reveal:

Tobi has Obito's eye, ALL BECAUSE:!!!!!!!!!!

He is Obito...

No shit sherlock.

Plus it makes no sense with the timeline.


----------



## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

technically kishi never said outright that tobi has obito's eyes even though the implications are obvious.  Mind you they are also obvious that he's obito himself.


----------



## Gaawa-chan (Aug 12, 2012)

Oahgneg said:


> If Obito is Tobi, then Obito _DEFINITELY HAS *THREE* SHARINGAN EYES_
> 
> One was taken by Kakashi, then Tobi had *TWO* until he used Izanagi in the fight vs Konan



*Points at the part in the manga where you see Tobi in a lab with 1001 Sharingan eyes in jars*

More than three, actually.


----------



## rob1out (Aug 12, 2012)

People seem to forget that Tobi has stockpiled a ton Eyes... .  He used Izanagi on Konan... and that's supposed to be an eye closing jutsu.  He probably has some sharingans on his body because we saw that his didn't close.  So just because he has Obito's doesn't mean he is Obito.


----------



## jacamo (Aug 12, 2012)

Gaawa-chan said:


> just like all the anti-Tobito people tried to argue that Tobi is Madara



go easy with the assumptions 

im anti-Obito... yet i always stood by what i believed that Tobi wasnt Madara and that Madara was in the 6th coffin... called it 2 years prior to the reveal


----------



## Descent of the Lion (Aug 12, 2012)

Izuna is a nobody. I don't care about him. The fact that thousands of people are so adamant against Obitio is proof that he's a better choice.


----------



## Let'sFightingLove (Aug 12, 2012)

posting this again because the damned mods merged my thread with this one. and because I think it's absolutely correct. 



Let'sFightingLove said:


> Link removed
> 
> 'Hn, Entrusted? 'If you ended up neglecting your promise what would they think?'
> 
> ...


----------



## Gaawa-chan (Aug 12, 2012)

jacamo said:


> go easy with the assumptions



You are right; that was unfair and I should have chosen my words more carefully. *goes to edit*


----------



## Descent of the Lion (Aug 12, 2012)

Hossaim said:


> Why Tobito would suck:
> 
> Chapter 600, big reveal:
> 
> ...



You obviously don't remember Nagato's reveal. Heck, Minato's for that matter.


----------



## Missing_Nin (Aug 12, 2012)

bahahaha obito is tobi.  we won.  hahaha.


----------



## jacamo (Aug 12, 2012)

Missing_Nin said:


> bahahaha obito is tobi.  we won.  hahaha.



premature celebration is always a good sign


----------



## Laura (Aug 12, 2012)

Of course he's not Obito, although I'd like him to be, because it would be a great troll.



8 said:


> it's the fucking ramen guy.
> 
> how else would he know naruto, gai and kakashi so well. and so detailed. because he always listen to all their chat!



This is the only sound theory I've heard so far. It's always the person that you least expect. He is so far the most likely character to be Tobi in this manga.


----------



## NW (Aug 12, 2012)

Tobi is Obito.

PROVE. ME. WRONG!


----------



## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

I don't get it, why is it too obvious a bad thing, when kishi likes being obvious in the first place? 

People argued the same thing with Pain being Nagato.


----------



## Jugeum (Aug 12, 2012)

I don't think he is, but a few people I know seem pretty convinced.


----------



## Lindsay (Aug 12, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Tobi is Obito.
> 
> PROVE. ME. WRONG!



Sorry, Tobi is Teuchi the Ramen Cook. 

Since Kushina loved ramen he opened a ramen shop to keep tabs on her and wait until the day she became pregnant. How else would Tobi find out about the location Kushina gave birth? He fed her ramen and her motor-mouth accidentally revealed the location. Thus he, "waited a long time for this moment". 

He's old enough to give Nagato the Rinnegan from a dying Madara and use Dinner Meal no Jutsu on Yahiko to spur him into creating Akatsuki. 

He hates Kakashi because Sakumo Hatake let his wife die on her first mission after giving birth to Ayame. Due to this hate of Kakashi he kept track of Kakashi and such enabled him to find Obito's body.

Why do you think he was one of the only people to treat Naruto nicely before he became a ninja? Letting him in his ramen stand enabled him to keep track of the Jinchuriki. Also why do you think he hired help in Part II? He had to be away more often in order to get Akatsuki to capture the tailed beasts.



If you think this isn't  a sarcastic joke


----------



## jigen22 (Aug 12, 2012)

Wow, kinda weird after all these years this whole mess may finally come to a close. Anyway. I'm still 100% Obito. These forums are gonna be so gnarly when the reveal comes.


----------



## Nic (Aug 12, 2012)

Lindsay said:


> Sorry, Tobi is Teuchi the Ramen Cook.
> 
> Since Kushina loved ramen he opened a ramen shop to keep tabs on her and wait until the day she became pregnant. How else would Tobi find out about the location Kushina gave birth? He fed her ramen and her motor-mouth accidentally revealed the location. Thus he, "waited a long time for this moment".
> 
> ...



tobi not being Obito has as much chance as the Bobcats winning 30 games next season.


----------



## Dantaeres (Aug 12, 2012)

Yes 100% sure it's obito, the red herring was Madara = Tobi.


----------



## Laura (Aug 12, 2012)

Nic said:


> tobi not being Obito has as much chance as the Bobcats winning 30 games next season.



Wow, I don't know much about basketball; are you willing to offer me some insurance if I make a large bet on that happening?


----------



## Octavian (Aug 12, 2012)

that poll is dead even 55-56...damn


----------



## Laura (Aug 12, 2012)

Damn. More and more Obito lovers are joining the fray.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Aug 12, 2012)

Things slowing changing to our favor is nothing new.

At this point, it is to be expected.


----------



## museings (Aug 12, 2012)

Now that it's pretty obvious that Tobi is at the very least using Obito's eye, I'd like to know if it's an EMS since he uses it without any (known) damage (though I'm suspecting some rubbish explanation like 'Hashi's DNA prevents the MS damage'). I'd also like to know whether the development of Obito's eye in Tobi is linked to the development of Obito's eye in Kakashi?


----------



## jacamo (Aug 12, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Tobi is Obito.
> 
> PROVE. ME. WRONG!



Jiraiya trained Nagato, Yahiko and Konan in the 2nd great ninja war

Obito died in the 3rd great ninja war

Nagato is much older than Obito... this much is *proven*





Nic said:


> tobi not being Obito has as much chance as the Bobcats winning 30 games next season.



what about MKG's intangibles? :ho



Agsrower said:


> Wow, I don't know much about basketball; are you willing to offer me some insurance if I make a large bet on that happening?



odds wont be that good im afraid


----------



## GaaraoftheDesert1 (Aug 12, 2012)

Yes we got the lead !!!!!!!!!!


----------



## The Red Skull (Aug 12, 2012)

*Would you say Tobi being Obito is pretty much confirmed now?*

In the latest chapter it's been pointed out that Kakashi and Tobi's eyes are connected. We also saw that Tobi holds some animosity towards Kakashi with that line about apologizing in front of a grave it's clear that Tobi is connected to Kakashi's past. We've also seen that his appearance in his fight with Konan is similar to Obitos. So given all this is it safe to say that Tobi being Obito is pretty much confirmed personally I think that Tobi not being Obito at this point would be a huge ass pull.


----------



## Moon Fang (Aug 13, 2012)

Timeline + red herring = No Tobito.


----------



## AMtrack (Aug 13, 2012)

Everytime I hear timeline I translate it as butthurt.  Timeline is the easiest thing to explain away in any manga.  If that is the only straw you're holding onto prepare to scream in more anal pain.


----------



## Jayaraman MinatoItachi (Aug 13, 2012)

NO. He just found obito's eye.


----------



## MinatoEMS (Aug 13, 2012)

Well NF users have to look at it like this. That moment when it flashed back to kakashi apologizing in front of Rin's grave was spoken very hatred like by tobi. It mean's he holds it very personal, because why else would he mention that. It hints that tobi is obito because he LOVED rin and wanted kakashi to protect her, somehow kakashi failed and we don't know how but we do know that Tobi knows more about kakashi than just the whole "i'm tobi i know stuff brah!"

Kishi said this is kakashi's year and it would be very limited role for kakashi to just be there to identify kamui and to hurt tobi. But to go more into detail about kakashi's past, what happened to rin, how did he truly get his mangeyko (i believe from Rin's Death), etc.

I'm excited to see what truly happens but It just seems a bit too coincidental.


----------



## Kaix (Aug 13, 2012)

I'm not sure why it's so hard to see that Tobi could be Obito. I'm not saying he is because I could care less, but let's look at the situation logically: This story takes place in a world with a supernatural energy source that can, with the proper skill and genetics, do anything. Tobi is too weak, too tall, too young, acts too differently can all be explained by chakra (except the last one probably makes more sense to be explained by living life). 

We are talking about a guy who as of this chapter has been explained to freely manipulate the space/time continuum to such a degree that he can phase out of existence the parts of his body that would be in contact with something, and then phase them back into existence so that no one, not even sharingan/byakugan users, can notice any gap before or after the matter "overlaps". Is it too much to believe that he can time travel? Granted, teleportation is technically time travel no matter how you slice it, but you see what I'm getting at.

Perhaps his appearance is all a genjutsu like a Hokage we all know. We do not know how time passes in the Kamui dimension. Perhaps it's like the hyperbolic time chamber. Maybe he warped there, lived for a few decades training, and warped out after a month of real time and attacked Konoha. As for his knowledge about the past, he was acting as Madara at the time. Perhaps he is a scholar and dedicated to the lie? He said he gave Nagato the Rinnegan, but at that time if you had asked him he would have also said "I am MADARA!" so whose to say it wasn't Madara who gave it to Nagato and Tobi was still going along with impersonating Madara?

My point here is that this is a manga where literally anything is possible especially for sharingan users. It is completely within the realm of logic to think this is Obito, and it is completely within the realm of good writing for it to be so. If you just don't like the idea, fair enough. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but there is no reason to mask an opinion in libel that the author is creating illogical plot holes and is therefore bad because of it. It is also wrong to claim that Tobi being Obito would be terrible writing when there are many, many ways it could be written very well.

All of that said, will a potential Tobi-is-Obito reveal be logical or well written? Maybe not, but it is not impossible nor improbable for it to be the case and stating otherwise is either an outright lie or an admittance of a lack of imagination.

As far as I know Tobi could be some dude with a crystal ball (One shot chapter) who can see many things (like Kakashi's memories of Obito) and be lying to gain an emotional edge. Perhaps this whole Kamui attack plan isn't even true. Maybe Tobi warps away, scratches his mask, and uses a sharingan-copied-rasengan on himself just to screw with them further.


----------



## Laura (Aug 13, 2012)

AMtrack said:


> Everytime I hear timeline I translate it as butthurt.  Timeline is the easiest thing to explain away in any manga.  If that is the only straw you're holding onto prepare to scream in more anal pain.



Yeah the bad guys always possess some kind of time travel jutsu. Or at least, they should.


----------



## AMtrack (Aug 13, 2012)

It's too fucking obvious.  So obvious it's annoying because:

1) I have to listen to so much denial over something so stupidly obvious.  It's worse than pairing fans.

2) 3 more chapters of beating it into our heads before he pulls the mask off.  All the while the denial will continue.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 13, 2012)

What you call 'denial' is waiting until the actual mask is off. Tobi being Obito makes no sense according to the timeline, nor does it make sense on how Obito can pull a 180 like this.


----------



## Mikaveli (Aug 13, 2012)

LelouchIsZero said:


> Q. Has Tobi's eye ever been seen in its normal form? Doesn't that suggest that the eye might not be his due to the fact that its seemingly permanently active?



Why did everyone conveniently forget that Itachi always had his Sharingan activated?


----------



## Laura (Aug 13, 2012)

Not everyone, just LelouchIsZero.


----------



## Easley (Aug 13, 2012)

Tobi kept the mask on! 

Kishi wants to prolong the agony. He's already milked Tobi's identity for years so he's clearly a patient man.

I still have a glimmer of hope for a twist, but Tobi seems to be Obito. How much is left of his original body is the question. 

If it's all a huge red herring I'd be very impressed. Convince the readers he's Obito, and then... *mask breaks*... he's someone else entirely!


----------



## AMtrack (Aug 13, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> What you call 'denial' is waiting until the actual mask is off. Tobi being Obito makes no sense according to the timeline, nor does it make sense on how Obito can pull a 180 like this.



Timeline = butthurt.

See Itachi.  Also see Kurama.  Oh you should see Nagato too.


Don't talk to me about 180s.  You've been reading them for years now.


----------



## The Red Skull (Aug 13, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> What you call 'denial' is waiting until the actual mask is off. Tobi being Obito makes no sense according to the timeline, nor does it make sense on how Obito can pull a 180 like this.



Not if you consider the Tobi being multiple people or more than one Tobi theory.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 13, 2012)

AMtrack said:


> Timeline = butthurt.
> 
> See Itachi.  Also see Kurama.  Oh you should see Nagato too.
> 
> ...


So how did Obito work with Madara to create Nagato? Or how did Kurama, and why would he even recognize Obito AMtrack when Tobi went to control him? Why would he be talking about waiting for a long time for this? And finally how would Kisame recognize Tobi from years ago as the Secret Mizukage? 

There are way too many plot holes if Tobi is Obito.


----------



## The Red Skull (Aug 13, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> So how did Obito work with Madara to create Nagato? Or how did Kurama, and why would he even recognize Obito AMtrack when Tobi went to control him? Why would he be talking about waiting for a long time for this? And finally how would Kisame recognize Tobi from years ago as the Secret Mizukage?
> 
> There are way too many plot holes if Tobi is Obito.



1. He didn't he just took credit as part of pretending to be Madara.
2. Obito was Minato's student and at the time Kurama was in Kushina(Minato's wife) it's not a stretch to think that Kurama would know Obito when you think about that. Or the Tobi who attacked the village that time was the real Madara and Obito was his successor.
3. Because assuming Obito survived that incident at such a young age and assuming from that moment he was Madara's apprentice he really has been waiting for this for a long time.
4. We've seen Orochimaru use a weird skin mask jutsu to disguise himself why would such a jutsu be restricted only to him?


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 13, 2012)

The Red Skull said:


> 1. He didn't he just took credit as part of pretending to be Madara.


Madara himself said he worked with Tobi to create Nagato.


> 2. Obito was Minato's student and at the time Kurama was in Kushina(Minato's wife) it's not a stretch to think that Kurama would know Obito when you think about that. Or the Tobi who attacked the village that time was the real Madara and Obito was his successor.


Kurama wouldn't even notice Obito. The guy was a failure Uchiha and not even worth noticing for Kurama. When Tobi tried to control Kurama, he went 'YOU!' and acted the same way he did when Madara tried summoning him.


> 3. Because assuming Obito survived that incident at such a young age and assuming from that moment he was Madara's apprentice he really has been waiting for this for a long time.


Why would Madara _even bother with Obito?_ Answer me that. Especially since Madara would have been _dead_ by the time Obito died, given how he died _shortly after awakening his Rinnegan._


> 4. We've seen Orochimaru use a weird skin mask jutsu to disguise himself why would such a jutsu be restricted only to him?


Since that fits Orochimaru's theme, not any Uchiha we know. Kisame recognized Tobi as one and the same as the one he knew in Kiri, which makes it impossible for Tobi to be Obito.


----------



## Sareth (Aug 13, 2012)

No, not at all. After Tobi's speech to Naruto this chapter, all that jazz about entrusting and being entrusted, it's pretty much confirmed that he is in fact the son of Rikudou in Obito's Zetsu modified body. Body swapping like a boss, since ancient times.


----------



## Haloman (Aug 13, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> So how did Obito work with Madara to create Nagato?



He didn't necessarily have to? You're operating on the false assumption that anything Tobi has said is truth, when he's a confirmed liar.



> Or how did Kurama, and why would he even recognize Obito AMtrack when Tobi went to control him?



He didn't necessarily recognize him. It's not like Kurama identified him by name. He only generically called him "You".



> Why would he be talking about waiting for a long time for this?



This is probably the best argument against a Tobito theory. The Kyuubi only attacked 1-2 years later (Kakashi was 13 when he became a jounin. Kakashi was 26-27 in part 1. Naruto was 12-13 in part 1. Meaning at the time of Naruto's birth, Kakashi was 14-15.), so Obito wouldn't have been waiting THAT long. But then again, maybe 1-2 years seems like an eternity when it's your single-minded goal and your body is made of Zetsu goo and bolts.

Maybe there's also more than one Tobi. Like the mantle of Green Lantern.



> And finally how would Kisame recognize Tobi from years ago as the Secret Mizukage?



We don't know how long "years ago" was. One of the things about Naruto and timeline arguments is that many people take times absolutely literally. When Akatsuki (I forget who exactly) said that Orochimaru left the organization 10 years ago, did that actually mean 10 years exactly to the day? Or is it just a euphemism that people familiarly use?

I would tell you that I've been playing baseball/softball for 20 years, but that's not true. If I were to say exactly, the number is probably 24. I would also tell you that I played on a local team in San Jose 10 years ago, but the actual number is 7 or 8. Why? Because it's just easier to round. Everyone does it.

Now back to the point.

Kakashi once told us in the beginning of part 1 (during the Zabuza arc, specifically), that the era of the "Bloody Mist" came to an end 10 years ago. That's the era that Tobi was overseeing by proxy of puppet Yagura. Naruto was born 12-13 years ago from that point. Meaning that Obito would actually have plenty of time to take control of Yagura for a few years before exposing himself to Kisame as Uchiha Madara.



> There are way too many plot holes if Tobi is Obito.



There really aren't. The best argument you've got here is that you've caught him up in his poor choice of words.

Obito: "You have no idea how long I've waited for this!"
Kushina: "How long?"
Obito: "One, maybe two years, tops."
Kushina: "That's not that long."
Obito: "Well, it feels long."
Kushina: "That's what she said."
Obito: "OH SNAP!"


Aaaaaanyway, I don't see why Tobi can't be Rin. The only "proof" we have is that Kakashi believes she's dead. He also believed Sharingan came from the Byakugan.


----------



## Nashima (Aug 13, 2012)

100% obito no question about it. Obvious from the start.


----------



## Nic (Aug 13, 2012)

jacamo said:


> Jiraiya trained Nagato, Yahiko and Konan in the 2nd great ninja war
> 
> Obito died in the 3rd great ninja war
> 
> ...



without him they would have been a 12 win team, with him i'm giving them double of that.


----------



## Kaix (Aug 13, 2012)

If timeline is the biggest issue you have with Tobi being Obito then you aren't thinking clearly. Tobi is a time traveler. Why would he be bound by a timeline?


----------



## Nic (Aug 13, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> So how did Obito work with Madara to create Nagato? Or how did Kurama, and why would he even recognize Obito AMtrack when Tobi went to control him? Why would he be talking about waiting for a long time for this? And finally how would Kisame recognize Tobi from years ago as the Secret Mizukage?
> 
> There are way too many plot holes if Tobi is Obito.



No Madara created Nagato by himself.  Kurama recognized the power that was controlling since it is quite clear now that tobi is not madara.  Who knows one kamuis dimensuon can explain why he was waiting, or he was once again in his role impersonating Madara.  You do know that kisame was only 32 right?  That didnt take place all that lkng ago in fact the current Mizukage said at the kage meeting that that they just had a change of power to her not very long ago.


----------



## LelouchIsZero (Aug 13, 2012)

Super Goob said:


> Why did everyone conveniently forget that Itachi always had his Sharingan activated?



We've seen Itachi without his sharingan active.


----------



## Gaawa-chan (Aug 13, 2012)

Haloman said:


> Obito: "You have no idea how long I've waited for this!"
> Kushina: "How long?"
> Obito: "One, maybe two years, tops."
> Kushina: "That's not that long."
> ...





Rin: "You have no idea how long I've waited for this!"
Kushina: "How long?"
Rin: "One, maybe two years, tops."
Kushina: "That's not that long."
Rin: "Well, it feels long."
Kushina: "That's what she said."
Rin: "OH SNAP!"


----------



## Hexa (Aug 13, 2012)

You don't need time travel to work out the timeline.  Basically, people would need to rework a bunch of the assumptions that went into making the timeline.  

Like if we say a Madara that considers a few years to be "a short time" and already implanted his eyes into Nagato met with Obito, we're OK.  Or we can say Madara didn't physically transfer his eye to Nagato (and we need to reconsider the definition of "Rikudou").  Or we can say that the Rain trio is 25-30 like Yahiko was described as being, agreeing with the anime that the Hanzou fight took place during the third ninja war and disagreeing with the line in the databook stating it to be during the second ninja war.  Or we can just say Tobi was lying.   There are probably other interpretations of the timeline of varying degrees of plausibility that work.

Or, of course, you can just say "Tobi isn't Obito" and go with the most popular version of the timeline.


----------



## NW (Aug 13, 2012)

Obvious.


----------



## Laura (Aug 13, 2012)

From his quote "I want the perfect body" I'd say he's actually a teenage girl.


----------



## Gilgamesh (Aug 13, 2012)

If Tobi is Obito i will drink my own piss


----------



## AMtrack (Aug 13, 2012)

bearzerger said:


> Even that can be explained easily.
> Tobi noticed that one of the Uchiha he collected was fighting or was made aware of the fact by Zetsu and send Zetsu to spy on them. Once Obito was buried Zetsu collected his body and brought him to Tobi who took the eye for his own. Tadah it matches the wording. It's still "during the battle".



You do realize how convoluted and incredibly circumstantial that sounds right?  And it does not explain how/why Tobi would use *that* eye over all the other eyes he had without knowing its powers.  And it further does not explain how his eye was able to gain EMS either.

That sounds far more ridiculous than the Obito theory at this point.  There's so much "it just so happened that" in the above that you can hardly call it decent storytelling.  I'm jus sayin lol.



> Even the Tobito theorists claim that Zetsu has to have been there to get Obito out of the rock and to bring him to Madara or whoever to start his brainwashing. So if he can bring the living body somewhere he could do the same with the dead.



Which is convoluted enough right?  But adding Tobi as someone else who just so happened to favor Obito's eye and just so happened to mysteriously activate MS makes it far worse than just saying Zetsu found Obito and he got corrupted.


----------



## NW (Aug 13, 2012)

Honestly, all these people against Tobi being Obito really don't comprehend what this manga is about.

Also, they're like "If Tobi is Obito it's bad writing because I don't want it to be him!" Well, guess what? It's not bad writing. Just because you don't want it to be him doesn't mean it would be bad writing if it was.

People even say they'll stop reading the manga. How dumb, They can't just admit they were wrong?

The craziest part about all of it is how hypocritical most of them are.

Well, I guess this means that Tobi's reveal as Obito will be Kishi's way of separating the true fans from those other, so called "fans".

If you guys still don't get it after the reveal than fine, I'm done with you guys. I'm not going to let butt hurt haters who hate being wrong ruin my enjoyment of this manga.

Note: This doesn't apply to everyone against the theory. Just the majority, meaning the irrational and annoying ones.


----------



## BlueBird (Aug 13, 2012)

There are 2 hints in this chapter that make people thinks its Obito: 1) Obviously Toby using Obito's eye 2). He tells things to Kakashi that make him remember personal things.

The first can be explained simply because we know for a fact that Tobi collected all the sharingan he could get to. As for the second point - Tobi talks like that with every character he encounters. In this last chapter Tobi addresses Kakashi's weakness, and then turns to Naturo's weakness - he addresses things that not many people should know about Naruto... Judging by his speach at this point Tobi being Obito makes as much sense as him being Jiraya... 

He did the same with Sasuke telling him sob stories about Madara/Izuna and Itachi. Rememeber how he egged Naruto about Sasuke as well. Then Danzo... He is known to spy on Konoha ninjas. He knew when Kushina was to give birth for God's sake...

I'm not saying your Obito theories are plain wrong, but just stop and think a little bit before bending the facts to fit your theory...


----------



## Laura (Aug 13, 2012)

BlueBird said:


> ...and then turns to *Naturo's* weakness...



...which is deforestation? 

But seriously, you make an excellent argument.


----------



## Nic (Aug 13, 2012)

actually no his talk with naruto is just a contiuation of why words are meaningless from kakashi as a result of what he enthrusted to him so when naruto enterrups he asks him how do you think minato or jiraiya would feel if he failed  with what they entrusted him (naruto being in kakashi's position) as a way to explain his own position and feelings, those of obitos.


----------



## Menacing Eyes (Aug 13, 2012)

BlueBird said:


> There are 2 hints in this chapter that make people thinks its Obito: 1) Obviously Toby using Obito's eye 2). He tells things to Kakashi that make him remember personal things.
> 
> The first can be explained simply because we know for a fact that Tobi collected all the sharingan he could get to. As for the second point - Tobi talks like that with every character he encounters. In this last chapter Tobi addresses Kakashi's weakness, and then turns to Naturo's weakness - he addresses things that not many people should know about Naruto... Judging by his speach at this point Tobi being Obito makes as much sense as him being Jiraya...
> 
> ...



Lets not forget that when he started the fight with Naruto and Bee he was trying to sympathize with them about being a Jinchuriki and the misery it holds.

People believed him then too  because he sounded sincere, like he might have possibly been a Jinchuriki himself and look what happened.


----------



## Laura (Aug 13, 2012)

Menacing Eyes said:


> Lets not forget that when he started the fight with Naruto and Bee he was trying to sympathize with them about being a Jinchuriki and the misery it holds.
> 
> People believed him then too  because he sounded sincere, like he might have possibly been a Jinchuriki himself and look what happened.



Aha! So Obito was a Jinchuriki too?!

Jk.

Which beast did they think he used to be the jinchuriki of?


----------



## Nic (Aug 13, 2012)

The harsh life of a jin is widly  known, kakashi's promise to Obito is not.


----------



## jacamo (Aug 13, 2012)

Nic said:


> without him they would have been a 12 win team, with him i'm giving them double of that.



just had a look at their roster... with the additions of Brendan Haywood, Ben Gordon and Ramon Sessions, along with MKG, i think they could win 30 games

at least Vegas will be taking bets


----------



## BlueBird (Aug 13, 2012)

Nic said:


> actually no his talk with naruto is just a contiuation of why words are meaningless from kakashi as a result of what he enthrusted to him so when naruto enterrups he asks him how do you think minato or jiraiya would feel if he failed  with what they entrusted him (naruto being in kakashi's position) as a way to explain his own position and feelings, those of obitos.



Agina, this is not the point. This is you making your argument sound plausible and building a logical explaination to fit your theory. Which is fair enough. The point is that Tobi knows what buttons to push either it being Kakashi or Naruto... or Sasuke... He knows personal things about every character...He knows Kakashi has lost his teammates and his sensei and blames himself for it, he knows that Naruto was entrusted with the burden by his father and Jiraya and is afraid if he can fulfill their trust, he know how Naruto was seeking out Sasuke... its one of the main traits of Tobi's character.


----------



## Nic (Aug 13, 2012)

jacamo said:


> just had a look at their roster... with the additions of Brendan Haywood, Ben Gordon and Ramon Sessions, along with MKG, i think they could win 30 games
> 
> at least Vegas will be taking bets



I think they will go full tank mode to get another top 2 pick.


----------



## Nic (Aug 13, 2012)

BlueBird said:


> Agina, this is not the point. This is you making your argument sound plausible and building a logical explaination to fit your theory. Which is fair enough. The point is that Tobi knows what buttons to push either it being Kakashi or Naruto... or Sasuke... He knows personal things about every character...He knows Kakashi has lost his teammates and his sensei and blames himself for it, he knows that Naruto was entrusted with the burden by his father and Jiraya and is afraid if he can fulfill their trust, he know how Naruto was seeking out Sasuke... its one of the main traits of Tobi's character.



If he was tryinv to be personal with Naruto he would have simply talked about his failure to protect Sasuke. In fact he ct the way he is talking to Naruto is completely different than how he was speaking with Kakashi.


----------



## αshɘs (Aug 13, 2012)

For those saying this is a red herring, I think Tobi being Madara was more than enough for a that. Besides, him being Obito is only implied, not stated.



gabzilla said:


> I always thought it was likely for several reasons:
> 
> - It has to be somebody recognizable
> - Manga for children, I doubt the final villain is going to be some obscure dude nobody remembers
> ...



I agree with a lot of stuff, especially the first couple. Heck, Mizuki is more memorable than Izuna, Kagami and The Elder Son combined.

But the funny attitude shouldn't count as a clue, since iirc Obito wasn't a goofy person in the gaiden.

The ramen guy reveal would be cool. Anyone remember that fake spoiler that came up years ago? 

Or Yamato Wood.


----------



## Arya Stark (Aug 13, 2012)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> What you call 'denial' is waiting until the actual mask is off. Tobi being Obito makes no sense according to the timeline, nor does it make sense on *how Obito can pull a 180 like this.*



Pulling a Bart in this thread.

_Either you die as a hero or you live enough to see yourself becoming villain. _

He practically lost his everything in war and betrayed by his friend this is enough motivation for turning into villain.


----------



## αshɘs (Aug 13, 2012)

Also, the timeline arguments. If the databooks are any indication, Kishi is quite terrible with his own timeline.

And the height issue. Itachi at 11 or 13 (don't remember) was tall as Orochimaru  But Kishi could come up with multiple explanations.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 13, 2012)

BlueBird said:


> There are 2 hints in this chapter that make people thinks its Obito: 1) Obviously Toby using Obito's eye 2). He tells things to Kakashi that make him remember personal things.
> 
> The first can be explained simply because we know for a fact that Tobi collected all the sharingan he could get to. As for the second point - Tobi talks like that with every character he encounters. In this last chapter Tobi addresses Kakashi's weakness, and then turns to Naturo's weakness - he addresses things that not many people should know about Naruto... Judging by his speach at this point Tobi being Obito makes as much sense as him being Jiraya...
> 
> ...



The only way to explain Tobi's knowledge is that Zetsu was recording their mission.  Heroes, entrusted promises, failure, hope and the future all themes of the Kakashi Gaiden and Tobi is bashing them.  It's a little too personal.


----------



## Nic (Aug 13, 2012)

The original chapter with tobi's plan being rvealed to naruto and kakashi stated that he wanted to be complete while narutos flashback states he wants a perfect body.  Is that a problem in translation or is that a retcon?


----------



## BlueBird (Aug 13, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> The only way to explain Tobi's knowledge is that Zetsu was recording their mission.  Heroes, entrusted promises, failure, hope and the future all themes of the Kakashi Gaiden and Tobi is bashing them.  It's a little too personal.



I agree that it seems to be personal for Tobi, but it does not necesseraly mean he is Obito. It just means he had similar reality check, a history of entrusting or being entrusted with hopes and failing to achieve it. It is not such an uncommon scenario in shinobi lives...


----------



## Laura (Aug 13, 2012)

Nic said:


> The original chapter with tobi's plan being rvealed to naruto and kakashi stated that he wanted to be complete while narutos flashback states he wants a perfect body.  Is that a problem in translation or is that a retcon?



Naruto just has bad memory.


----------



## BlueBird (Aug 13, 2012)

Nic said:


> If he was tryinv to be personal with Naruto he would have simply talked about his failure to protect Sasuke. In fact he ct the way he is talking to Naruto is completely different than how he was speaking with Kakashi.



He did that already - I mean talking with Naruto about failing to protect Sasuke - when it was relevant. Here, this last chapter it seems it is more relevant to psycological attack the person who just managed to reveal the secret behind his jutsu. But i guess you can interpret this either way depending what you think is happening. Mind you, I do not have any theory, I just prefer to wait for manga reveal.


----------



## Nic (Aug 13, 2012)

1st time ive ever seen the tobito theory get as many yes as nos. 62-62.


----------



## Nic (Aug 13, 2012)

Also another hint that leads to tobi being obito is how he talks about regret again.  Obito's biggest regret was that he could not tell Rin he loved her.


----------



## Killer Zylos Wolf (Aug 13, 2012)

If there is one thing I have learned in life; and pretty the much only thing, it's to never trust anyone or anything ever...EVER!

Tobi is obviously the fucking Rock that killed Obito, the Rock was the one who said that to Kakashi and was simply using Obito all these years. the Rock is final villain. 

Waits for someone to edit Dwayne Johnson's face onto the Rock that killed Obito


----------



## Deshi Basara (Aug 13, 2012)

*He's either Obito or Rin.

I don't see Izuna, Madara's clone or whoever the other candidates are, just walking around looking to steal eyes from the corpses of Uchiha kids.How would they even know that Obito's sharingan will have the abilities it has so they have a reason to steal it? *


----------



## auem (Aug 13, 2012)

Tobi=Obito will be so cheap....a 15 years old chunin going nuts against the shinobi world....


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 13, 2012)

BlueBird said:


> I agree that it seems to be personal for Tobi, but it does not necesseraly mean he is Obito. It just means he had similar reality check, a history of entrusting or being entrusted with hopes and failing to achieve it. It is not such an uncommon scenario in shinobi lives...



But why is Kakashi a trigger?  How does he know Kakashi failed Obito on his death bed promise?  Why would anyone recover Obito's eye under rocks when he didn't even have it until minutes prior to his "death."  

We have a guy with Obito's eye, costume based around Obito's eye, wrinkled/scarred face on his right and none on his left, he has intimate knowledge of Obito's last words and Kakashi, he has a beef with Kakashi for failure and broken promises, he's Uchiha, he's first seen after Obito first disappears.  I mean come on peope how much more evidence do you need?


----------



## Nic (Aug 13, 2012)

Naruto is a 16 year old Genin that is stronger than all five Kages combined. >.>


----------



## BlueBird (Aug 13, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> But why is Kakashi a trigger?  How does he know Kakashi failed Obito on his death bed promise?  Why would anyone recover Obito's eye under rocks when he didn't even have it until minutes prior to his "death."
> 
> We have a guy with Obito's eye, costume based around Obito's eye, wrinkled/scarred face on his right and none on his left, he has intimate knowledge of Obito's last words and Kakashi, he has a beef with Kakashi for failure and broken promises, he's Uchiha, he's first seen after Obito first disappears.  I mean come on peope how much more evidence do you need?



Hm, maybe I missed something, but there is not a singe word from Tobi that mentions some specific promise from Kakashi in the chapter. Tobi talks about those who remain living making excuses in front of graves of the fallen. As I said this can be apllied to almost every shinobi. 

As for eye collecting it could be explained by the fact that Tobi made an effort to trace and collect all the sharingans there were. It is not that farfetched to assume he tracked and retrieved it later. I mean it must have been common knowledge in Konoha that Obito activated his eyes with Kakashi boasting one of them and all. At least this assumption is more acceptable than some time travel explanations for the timeline plotholes I see from Tobito believers.

I just think that Tobi is a little more complicated than being just some single known character.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 13, 2012)

αshɘs said:


> For those saying this is a red herring, I think Tobi being Madara was more than enough for a that. Besides, him being Obito is only implied, not stated.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The hair and the goofy attitude are superficial, it means nothing if he's not Obito. But if he is... As I said, manga for kids... keep it simple.

I remember.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 13, 2012)

BlueBird said:


> Hm, maybe I missed something, but there is not a singe word from Tobi that mentions some specific promise from Kakashi in the chapter. Tobi talks about those who remain living making excuses in front of graves of the fallen. As I said this can be apllied to almost every shinobi.
> 
> As for eye collecting it could be explained by the fact that Tobi made an effort to trace and collect all the sharingans there were. It is not that farfetched to assume he tracked and retrieved it later. I mean it must have been common knowledge in Konoha that Obito activated his eyes with Kakashi boasting one of them and all. At least this assumption is more acceptable than some time travel explanations for the timeline plotholes I see from Tobito believers.
> 
> I just think that Tobi is a little more complicated than being just some single known character.



Tobi and Kakashi talk about where he gets the eye.  

Kakashi says:  You...

Tobi: I told you not to open your mouth so easily! (basically what Obito tells Kakashi and Minato tells Obito)  You're just words and no actions, what someone like you says is worth nothing!  It's too late to regret.  Reality is just cruelly moving forward.  

That's not aimed a Kakashi?  Why so much anger towards Kakashi.  When Konan betrayed him and told him about peace and Naruto being the light he didn't start yelling, ranting and point at her.


----------



## Easley (Aug 13, 2012)

BlueBird said:


> There are 2 hints in this chapter that make people thinks its Obito: 1) Obviously Toby using Obito's eye 2). He tells things to Kakashi that make him remember personal things.
> 
> The first can be explained simply because we know for a fact that Tobi collected all the sharingan he could get to. As for the second point - Tobi talks like that with every character he encounters. In this last chapter Tobi addresses Kakashi's weakness, and then turns to Naturo's weakness - he addresses things that not many people should know about Naruto... Judging by his speach at this point Tobi being Obito makes as much sense as him being Jiraya...
> 
> ...


Easily one of the best posts in this thread. You made some very good points about Tobi addressing a character's weakness. Kakashi first and then Naruto... and Sasuke in a previous chapter (about Itachi). Tobi is a manipulative lying bastard so it won't surprise me if he's messing with Kakashi's emotions.



Agsrower said:


> From his quote "I want the perfect body" I'd say he's actually a teenage girl.


lol, I'm not a teenager but there's a ring of truth to this. Tobi probably means being Juubi Jinchuriki but the wording is strange. Tobi=Rin and longs to be a teenage girl again! Zetsu goo; the ultimate age defying cream!



Gilgamesh said:


> If Tobi is Obito i will drink my own piss


hmm, a bit crude but I understand the sentiment... better get my glass ready just in case.


----------



## Deshi Basara (Aug 13, 2012)

*If Tobi is anyone other than Obito or Rin, like Kagami, Izuna etc

Kakashi, Bee, Naruto and Gai wouldn't give a shit.They probably won't even recognise the fucka.All the implications that Gai and Kakashi have seen him before and are familiar with him were for what?Why would Tobi even hide from them?*


----------



## jacamo (Aug 13, 2012)

Raventhal said:


> Why so much anger towards Kakashi.



because Tobi is Obito's father


----------



## Hide Tha Pein (Aug 13, 2012)

Just read the arc again (Kakashi Gaiden) to many examples (pointing the same arm, cut on the same side of the face, and msg about running your mouth)


----------



## Jeefus (Aug 13, 2012)

hrhrmm...

If this is a red herring, than Kishi has really stepped it up in the writing department


what if it turns out to be Rin (albeit a manly women)... she was there...


----------



## Arya Stark (Aug 13, 2012)

Moon~ said:


> And how good come out if he isn't?
> 
> Seriously if Izuna or Shisui do you think the reveal will have impact on readers?
> 
> ...



Posting my quote from another thread.



jacamo said:


> because Tobi is Obito's father



This is so desperate, I can't.


----------



## jacamo (Aug 13, 2012)

^so does Tobi confirm anything Kakashi said?

is it not possible for Kakashi to be, um... wrong?


----------



## Arya Stark (Aug 13, 2012)

jacamo said:


> ^so does Tobi confirm anything Kakashi said?
> 
> is it not possible for Kakashi to be, um... wrong?



What he said?

He basically knows him on a personal level and says his eyes belong to Obito.

And Tobi can be wrong too?


----------



## Chaos Hokage (Aug 13, 2012)

Yeah, I think Tobi is Obito now. Kishi is probably going to pull a Jason Todd on us.


----------



## Nic (Aug 13, 2012)

I remember when people used to try and argue that Pain was Konan.


----------



## Finvarra (Aug 13, 2012)

It certainly sounds like Tobi has the other eye that belonged to Obito however it does not = Obito is Tobi. Also Obito kind of made up with Kakashi so I cant 100% agree that the anger from Tobi means hes obitio.

Admiterly it certainly could be but if he really was crushed like that then somebody must have helped him or something.


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## jacamo (Aug 13, 2012)

Moon~ said:


> What he said?
> 
> He basically knows him on a personal level and says his eyes belong to Obito.
> 
> And Tobi can be wrong too?



about Kakashi thinking Tobi is Obito... thats why he's freaking out right?

despite the obvious foreshadowing


----------



## Finvarra (Aug 13, 2012)

One thing that kind of bugs me is Tobi as a character is much to old to be Obito. However it crossed my mind that perhaps Madara was the first tobi, and the current tobi was a student Madara took on. He may have got the eye from obito and Madara may have shown him how to use it or something.


----------



## Nic (Aug 13, 2012)

Finvarra said:


> It certainly sounds like Tobi has the other eye that belonged to Obito however it does not = Obito is Tobi. Also Obito kind of made up with Kakashi so I cant 100% agree that the anger from Tobi means hes obitio.
> 
> Admiterly it certainly could be but if he really was crushed like that then somebody must have helped him or something.



I'm not sure what's so hard to understand here.  Obito entrusted the safety of Rin to Kakashi as his last dying wish, and kakashi failed.


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## Finvarra (Aug 13, 2012)

Nic said:


> I'm not sure what's so hard to understand here.  Obito entrusted the safety of Rin to Kakashi as his last dying wish, and kakashi failed.



Thats a good point. Althrough we dont actualy know if he failed. She may well be alive, she may well have been killed by a illness. All we know is we have not seen her since the flash back.


----------



## jacamo (Aug 13, 2012)

Nic said:


> I'm not sure what's so hard to understand here.  Obito entrusted the safety of Rin to Kakashi as his last dying wish, and kakashi failed.



but Obito's other eye was crushed by 1000 boulders, thats just another thing people are finding hard to believe... apart from the other plotholes


if Tobi is Obito's father, then Tobi doesnt need Obito's eye to be able to use Kamui because they would be from the same bloodline anyway


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## Obito (Aug 13, 2012)

Finvarra said:


> Thats a good point. Althrough we dont actualy know if he failed. She may well be alive, she may well have been killed by a illness. All we know is we have not seen her since the flash back.



Actually, her name was listed on the grave of lost soldiers.

Also, when Kakashi was about to die against pain, he said "Father... Obito... Rin... I will be with you soon."


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## son_michael (Aug 13, 2012)

jacamo said:


> but Obito's other eye was crushed by 1000 boulders, thats just another thing people are finding hard to believe... apart from the other plotholes
> 
> 
> if Tobi is Obito's father, then Tobi doesnt need Obito's eye to be able to use Kamui because they would be from the same bloodline anyway



This chapter confirmed that his eye was not crushed


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## Laura (Aug 13, 2012)

jacamo said:


> but Obito's other eye was crushed by 1000 boulders, thats just another thing people are finding hard to believe... apart from the other plotholes
> 
> 
> if Tobi is Obito's father, then Tobi doesnt need Obito's eye to be able to use Kamui because they would be from the same bloodline anyway



If that were true then why did Tobi say that he got the eye at Kanabi bridge?


----------



## NW (Aug 13, 2012)

jacamo said:
			
		

> about Kakashi thinking Tobi is Obito... thats why he's freaking out right?


Of course.



> despite the obvious foreshadowing


See: Nagato.



> ^so does Tobi confirm anything Kakashi said?


Yes, actually.



> is it not possible for Kakashi to be, um... wrong?


Not when right when Kakashi said "You're!..." Tobi interrupted and gave another speech to him and talked about entrusting things. Seriously, why else would Rin's death be unmentioned. Do you comprehend storytelling at all?



			
				jacamo said:
			
		

> but Obito's other eye was crushed by 1000 boulders, that's just another thing people are finding hard to believe... apart from my shit "plotholes".


So how does Tobi have it? He said he got it at the battle of Kannabi bridge. Plus it's connected to Kakashi's eye. And Tobi literally said he got the eye there. How could Kagami awaken his sharingan at Kannabi bridge when he had it during the first war?




> if Tobi is Obito's father, then Tobi doesnt need Obito's eye to be able to use Kamui because they would be from the same bloodline anyway


Yes he does. How do you know that his father would have similar MS techniques to him? They're unique to Obito.

Also, how did Kagami end up with only one of his original eyes?

Plus, even if Kagami was Obito's father and had similar MS abilities, his eyes still wouldn't be linked to and be able to control Obito's other eye.

Seriously, what the hell? You're clearly in denial. You keep on focusing on "plotholes" and ignore the mounting hints, and yet you continue to believe in a theory with absolutely no evidence. You even claim he's Obito's father when you have no evidence for that, only a wild guess, and yet you call it plausible. 

Do you have any idea how silly you look?


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## Finvarra (Aug 13, 2012)

Obito said:


> Actually, her name was listed on the grave of lost soldiers.
> 
> Also, when Kakashi was about to die against pain, he said "Father... Obito... Rin... I will be with you soon."



Hmm i missed that. Thanks for the info.


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## Talis (Aug 13, 2012)

Obito said:


> Actually, her name was listed on the grave of lost soldiers.
> 
> Also, when Kakashi was about to die against pain, he said "Father... Obito... Rin... I will be with you soon."


Yeah, but she still might have had a grave while Obito clearly had not.


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## jacamo (Aug 13, 2012)

lol... this is what happens when i step away for over 30 mins

im not doubting the obvious foreshadowing/hinting pointing towards Obito in this chapter... but i still see plotholes when it comes to Obito, and im not the only one saying this

that being said... Kagami theory time  why not right? im all in anyway


*Tobi = Obito's father = Uchiha Kagami*

Kagami retrieved his dead son's eye under those boulders at the Kannabi bridge so he could prevent blindness in his own eye and unlock the EMS via transplant 

chapter confirms Tobi has been spamming Kamui for all these years he should be blind as a bat by now, but he isnt... well he must have the EMS then :ho


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## Talis (Aug 13, 2012)

jacamo said:


> lol... this is what happens when i step away for over 30 mins
> 
> im not doubting the obvious foreshadowing/hinting pointing towards Obito in this chapter... but i still see plotholes when it comes to Obito, and im not the only one saying this
> 
> ...


Yes, Obito died while his Sharingan was in perfect condition.
Nice troll.


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## NW (Aug 13, 2012)

jacamo said:
			
		

> lol... this is what happens when i step away for over 30 mins
> 
> im not doubting the obvious foreshadowing/hinting pointing towards Obito in this chapter... but i still see plotholes when it comes to Obito, and im not the only one saying this


Hope you're ready for those "plotholes" to be explained.



> that being said... Kagami theory time  why not right? im all in anyway


Oh yeah, an old ass Kagami sure could have personally know teenage Kakashi...




> Tobi = Obito's father = Uchiha Kagami


Why are you saying he's Obito's father? What evidence do you have for this? 



> Kagami retrieved his dead son's eye under those boulders at the Kannabi bridge so he could prevent blindness in his own eye and unlock the EMS via transplant


First you say the eye was crushed. Now you say it wasn't. Make up your mind.



> chapter confirms Tobi has been spamming Kamui for all these years he should be blind as a bat by now, but he isnt... well he must have the EMS then


Or his normal MS got haxxed out by Senju DNA. We've seen that he has Zetsu arms.


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## jacamo (Aug 13, 2012)

loool3 said:


> Yes, Obito died while his Sharingan was in perfect condition.



if you really think Tobi = Obito *in body and mind* then this would have to be true, would it not?



> Nice troll.



im not trolling because its not confirmed that Tobi *has to be* Obito

the only thing that was confirmed was that Tobi's Jikukan jutsu shares a dimension with Kakashi's Kamui... in other words its the same jutsu


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## Raventhal (Aug 13, 2012)

jacamo said:


> lol... this is what happens when i step away for over 30 mins
> 
> im not doubting the obvious foreshadowing/hinting pointing towards Obito in this chapter... but i still see plotholes when it comes to Obito, and im not the only one saying this
> 
> ...



Nice fan fiction.


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## jacamo (Aug 13, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Hope you're ready for those "plotholes" to be explained.
> 
> Oh yeah, an old ass Kagami sure could have personally know teenage Kakashi...
> 
> ...



to clarify, imo it wasnt crushed... it was just other people saying that Obito's eye should have been crushed so i brought it up

Hiruzen's son Asuma and Kakashi/Obito are basically the same age... so of course its possible for Kagami to know Kakashi

lol its just a theory i dont have evidence... but you dont have evidece that MS blindness can be countered by Hashirama DNA (not Senju DNA) either


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## Talis (Aug 13, 2012)

> if you really think Tobi = Obito *in body and mind* then this would have to be true, would it not?



This is true, i've already said it so many times before; 
*Spoiler*: __ 








The rock *clearly* didnt pierce through his head while the lower body part seems clearly to be pierced through the lower body parts, and now we figure out that Obito's eye survived?
Even if it was someone else taking Obito's eye he would still found a living Obito around.


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## jacamo (Aug 13, 2012)

loool3 said:


> This is true, i've already said it so many times before;
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...



maybe Obito died but his eye was salvageable




Raventhal said:


> Nice fan fiction.



why thank you


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## Arya Stark (Aug 13, 2012)

Obito is basically Harvey Dent of Naruto, that's what I'm going to say


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## jacamo (Aug 13, 2012)

hurry it up ObitoUchiha111... i only have time for 1 response


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## Nic (Aug 13, 2012)

you do realize that the eye is located below the facial bone structure for a reason right?


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## NW (Aug 13, 2012)

jacamo said:
			
		

> to clarify, imo it wasnt crushed... it was just other people saying that Obito's eye should have been crushed so i brought it up


Oh, alright.



> Hiruzen's son Asuma and Kakashi/Obito are basically the same age... so of course its possible for Kagami to know Kakashi


I guess it's possible for them to have encountered each other a few times, but knowing each other personally? Unless they were both in ANBU at the same time and had worked together, but I doubt that.



> lol its just a theory i dont have evidence... but you dont have evidece that MS blindness can be countered by Hashirama DNA (not Senju DNA) either


Well, you're right. But I DO have something to suggest it. Itachi said that Hashirama's DNA could lesson the time needed to wait for Kotoamatsukami, so in theory, it might somehow allow a much longer usage of MS.


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## HakuGaara (Aug 13, 2012)

It's obvious that Tobi is using Obito's body but it's also obvious that it's not Obito in that body.


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## NW (Aug 13, 2012)

HakuGaara said:
			
		

> It's obvious that Tobi is using Obito's body but it's also obvious that it's not Obito in that body.


U mad, bro?:ho


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## jacamo (Aug 13, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> I guess it's possible for them to have encountered each other a few times, but knowing each other personally? Unless they were both in ANBU at the same time and had worked together, but I doubt that.



Kakashi knowing Kagami isnt the issue, the issue is Kagami knowing Kakashi because he became famous as "Kakashi of the Sharingan" 

lol can you imagine how famous Kakashi became among the Uchiha Clan? 

the Uchiha Clan would not only be suspicious, they would have been outright convinced that Obito was a victim of foul play/conspiracy when you consider the Uchiha Clan's political tensions with Konoha 

so assuming Obito's father was around he would have been outraged by this news... he would have been fully motivated to find out every little detail about Kakashi, including where Obito died (Kannabi Bridge) 



> Well, you're right. But I DO have something to suggest it. Itachi said that Hashirama's DNA could lesson the time needed to wait for Kotoamatsukami, so in theory, it might somehow allow a much longer usage of MS.



nothing was said about blindness.... but whatever i guess its possible


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## Setsuna00 (Aug 13, 2012)

HakuGaara said:


> It's obvious that Tobi is using Obito's body but it's also obvious that it's not Obito in that body.



LOL. That makes no sense. Again. HOW DOES HE KNOW ABOUT KAKASHI STANDING IN FRONT OF GRAVES? He'd only know that if he literally spied on him and saw that. And that act would be too specific in any case to warrant Tobi being anyone other than Obito. I've said this so many times, and NO ONE has a counter argument to it. It's quite sad really.


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## Menacing Eyes (Aug 13, 2012)

Madara Uchiha is basically a god right? 

Kannabi Bridge = 神無毘橋, Kannabi-kyō means "Bridge where the gods do not help"

Madara(God) does not help Obito. He dies. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



I'm not being serious here  but the name of the bridge is interesting though


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## Nic (Aug 13, 2012)

thought i'd start gathering all the parallel themes, and damn there are a freaken ton, but anyways here I go:


_"A peace born of illusion is nothing more than a lie. Peace only holds meaning if it is created in reality"_
_"A peace born of illusion is nothing more than a lie. Peace only holds meaning if it is created in reality"_
First parallel drawn by Kishi is that Obito is a Liar and as we know so is Tobi.

_"A peace born of illusion is nothing more than a lie. Peace only holds meaning if it is created in reality"_
another Obito Lie and Minato is now telling Obito to control his mouth.

_"A peace born of illusion is nothing more than a lie. Peace only holds meaning if it is created in reality"_
again kishi reiterating the theme

_"A peace born of illusion is nothing more than a lie. Peace only holds meaning if it is created in reality"_
and again

_"A peace born of illusion is nothing more than a lie. Peace only holds meaning if it is created in reality"_
Obito tells Kakashi to shut it now. 

vs.

_"A peace born of illusion is nothing more than a lie. Peace only holds meaning if it is created in reality"_
_"A peace born of illusion is nothing more than a lie. Peace only holds meaning if it is created in reality"_

and interestingly here is tobi telling Kakashi to shut it again.  Funny how he says You Always. 




_"A peace born of illusion is nothing more than a lie. Peace only holds meaning if it is created in reality"_
Obito's first mention of Heroes

_"A peace born of illusion is nothing more than a lie. Peace only holds meaning if it is created in reality"_
kishi making it a theme now

_"A peace born of illusion is nothing more than a lie. Peace only holds meaning if it is created in reality"_
_"A peace born of illusion is nothing more than a lie. Peace only holds meaning if it is created in reality"_
again and again. 

vs.

_"A peace born of illusion is nothing more than a lie. Peace only holds meaning if it is created in reality"_
Tobi mentioning when Kakashi became a hero

Link removed
a world where heroes don't have to make pitiful excuses in front of the graves of friends. 




Link removed
Another theme now being introduced concerning regret

vs

_"A peace born of illusion is nothing more than a lie. Peace only holds meaning if it is created in reality"_
tobi now talks about Kakashi's life of regret. 

_"A peace born of illusion is nothing more than a lie. Peace only holds meaning if it is created in reality"_
again tobi mentioning regret



Link removed
now the themes of despair and hope that we all know tobi loves to bitch about

as seen below

Link removed

Link removed
Link removed
Link removed
the dying entrustment of protecting Rin

vs.

_"A peace born of illusion is nothing more than a lie. Peace only holds meaning if it is created in reality"_
tobi telling kakashi that his words mean nothing they are just empty words no action.

Link removed
again tobi talking about entrustment and people failing with it. 


Link removed
obito recieves his sharingan. 

vs

_"A peace born of illusion is nothing more than a lie. Peace only holds meaning if it is created in reality"_
tobi now explains where he got his sharingan


Link removed
Link removed

the parallel images  you've all seen. 


Link removed
Link removed
Link removed
Link removed


also the crack on the mask below the left eye and its parallel to kakashi's scar

but hey don't mind it, it's just all coincidences or red herrings. lol


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## Descent of the Lion (Aug 13, 2012)

bearzerger said:


> Unlike Tobi Minato was never even supposed to be a mystery. Many already suspected that Naruto was the son of the 4th starting with the very first chapter and once Itachi said it on his first appearance it was basically a done deal.



It wasn't explicitly stated until well after that point. The point is this is symptomatic of Kishimoto's writing style. He doesn't confirm painfully obvious things not because of his penchant for red herrings but because of his inability to gauge the audience's conclusions.


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## Nic (Aug 13, 2012)

i could find double the amount of links i posted but i'm not reading all of part II again today. lol


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## Tyrion (Aug 13, 2012)

I don't think he is Obito for one simple reason. Kishi has said he is going to make Tobi, Obito in the movie, and that's another universe. No way in hell is the manga Tobi gonna be Obito.


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## Nic (Aug 13, 2012)

A.Glover92 said:


> I don't think he is Obito for one simple reason. Kishi has said he is going to make Tobi, Obito in the movie, and that's another universe. No way in hell is the manga Tobi gonna be Obito.



no tobi isn't revealed to be Obito in the Movie.  It was actually just a note next to tobi's name in the manuscript.


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## NW (Aug 13, 2012)

Nice post, Nic.

Now, check this out, people!

Notice how Obito's Sharingan is depicted with three tomoe instead of 2! Now, obviously it's a mistake. So, I'm thinking Kishi got so used to drawing Obito in the present(Tobi) who has three tomoes now, that when there was a flashback to when he was younger in Gaiden, Kishi slipped up and continued to draw Obito with three tomoes!

Mwahahahaha!


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## Tyrion (Aug 13, 2012)

Nic said:


> no tobi isn't revealed to be Obito in the Movie.  It was actually just a note next to tobi's name in the manuscript.



Tobi is revealed to be Obito in the movie. I read it here, NF doesn't lie.


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## Axass (Aug 13, 2012)

Seriously, this chapter basically gave it away. I still remember the Tobi=Obito theories born right after his first introduction. Mostly as jokes. To think that after all these years those first week theories were actually (almost surely) on the spot. Damn Kishi, if this stuff, as it appears, ends up being true you suck at hiding things... Come on, call him something else; calling him Tobi was just sad...


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## Nic (Aug 13, 2012)

it's a manga for children though. lol


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## NW (Aug 13, 2012)

A.Glover92 said:
			
		

> Tobi is revealed to be Obito in the movie. I read it here, NF doesn't lie.


Um, no he's not revealed in the movie. Kishi just called him Obito in the notes because they're the same person.


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## Shakar (Aug 13, 2012)

I'll post this here, since it deals with Tobi. It's no definitive proof of Tobi=Obito, but I think it's a pretty cool thing to share. Thanks to ObitoUchiha, who suggested me sharing this. 

I'd like to highlight Tobi's body language in this chapter. During his speech to Kakashi, Tobi clearly points his finger at him, an action which . BTW, the article cites Naruto himself as a major offender..and we know Obito is clearly a parallel of him.


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## Mistshadow (Aug 13, 2012)

ok Jacamo, answer my question on WHY someone would salvage a regular 2 tomoe sharingan eye? that's not so special. HOW would they know it had S/T abilities if it was awoken into MS. 

Makes more sense for it to be Obito who awakened it himself and has since trained it


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## Ricky Sen (Aug 13, 2012)

Axass said:


> Seriously, this chapter basically gave it away. I still remember the Tobi=Obito theories born right after his first introduction. Mostly as jokes. To think that after all these years those first week theories were actually (almost surely) on the spot. Damn Kishi, if this stuff, as it appears, ends up being true you suck at hiding things... Come on, call him something else; calling him Tobi was just sad...



Hasn't Kishimoto said that his target audience is 7'th grade boys?? Of course we are too sophisticated for some of the plot points. I'd be a little worried if us grown folks _hadn't_ guessed correctly, considering how much effort we put into it. If anything this is just reason for us to high-five eachother. We sure did outsmart this children's manga, lol !!!


----------



## NW (Aug 13, 2012)

Are those scars i see on Obito's face(middle-left panel)?!


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## Tyrannos (Aug 13, 2012)

Yep, Tobi has to be Rin.   We were trolled to think it was Obito, but where has been Rin all this time?


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## NW (Aug 13, 2012)

Tyrannos said:
			
		

> but where has been Rin all this time?


Dead. Re-read chapter 425 and 597.


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## NW (Aug 13, 2012)

Above Team Minato, you can see Team 7. Now, Sakura is above Rin, Naruto is above Kakashi, and Sasuke is above Obito.

So, you could say that Naruto parallels Kakashi and Obito parallels Sasuke, but guess what that means if it's true.

Obito is a parallel of Naruto. And Kakashi parallels Sasuke. Now, Kakashi is like a none uchiha Sasuke that was going down a dark road but went good because of Obito. Obito is like an Uchiha Naruto who went down a good road but went evil for currently unknown reasons.

So, yeah.

Tobi is Obito, bitches!


----------



## Eliyua23 (Aug 13, 2012)

This reminds me of the Nagato reveal where everyone thought that Nagato would be some super powerful guy that would defeat Naruto and capture him only for him to be cripple, when all the evidence was there that only an immobile person would use the 6 paths as a proxy.

Cripple Nagato=Obito

Izuna= Mobile Hax Nagato


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## Nic (Aug 13, 2012)

Eliyua23 said:


> This reminds me of the Nagato reveal where everyone thought that Nagato would be some super powerful guy that would defeat Naruto and capture him only for him to be cripple, when all the evidence was there that only an immobile person would use the 6 paths as a proxy.
> 
> Cripple Nagato=Obito
> 
> Izuna= Mobile Hax Nagato



Nagato was weak? lol  We just saw that he was able to revitalize himself by absorbing chakra.


----------



## Yachiru (Aug 13, 2012)

Tobito is canon. We won


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## Marsala (Aug 13, 2012)

Axass said:


> Seriously, this chapter basically gave it away. I still remember the Tobi=Obito theories born right after his first introduction. Mostly as jokes. To think that after all these years those first week theories were actually (almost surely) on the spot. Damn Kishi, if this stuff, as it appears, ends up being true you suck at hiding things... Come on, call him something else; calling him Tobi was just sad...



first week theories? more like first minute. I tried to find the spoiler thread from 270 but alas, it seems to have gone missing.


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## Flowing (Aug 13, 2012)

I'm kinda sure that Tobi is Obitos father. (maybe Kagami)

I think it's tactic to say to Kakashi "i got the sharingan from the bidge.." Since Kakashi know how to "damage" Tobi now - he'll just made him think "could it be possible that he is obito?" "Rin/Obitos story" is actually Kakashis biggest weakness, so Tobi is trying to confuse him. 
Well he added another comment like "i want to build a world where heros dont have to make pitifull excuses at graves"

That sounds for me like the "death of obito" affected Tobi hard. (Kakashi will think about Rin/obito cuz he added something like "your words worth nothing") Sounds like a ragefull father imo. I would do it the same way.

After the death of his son he just left Konoha and created a new identiy. Since he needed a new name he builded out of "Obito" "Tobi" as memorial. 

I think he had still connections to some Uchias (maybe Sasukes Dad or Mom) or Danzou, so after he heard about the birth from Naruto it would be the best chance to use the Kyuubi. Since Kagami wasn't there the whole time, i think he left the village some time before and no one ever heard something about him. (It could be even possible that Kagami is Madara's son?)
One time he said he hates Konoha and the Uchias, he always just wanted peace. The Uchihas planned to take over the Konoha Leaders. 

First Konoha let die his son, then the others can't stop doing shit. HE JUST WANTED FUCKING DAMN PEACE. He got sick of all this shit and wanted to stop this shit world. Since Nagato activated his Rinnegan after his parents died. I think that was all planned to kill his parents, possibly many pain was required to awake the Rinnegan for NAGATO and to abuse it in the future.  
When am I right Kagami was a medi Ninja. So its possible that he has something to do with Zetsu or he just created this fucking thing.

Dont forget he had 2 Sharingas while he fought Konan. I dont think hes Obito no fucking way. It's Obitos father ...... maybe Kagami.

sorry for my bad english


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## Talis (Aug 13, 2012)

Flowing said:


> I'm kinda sure that Tobi is Obitos father. (maybe Kagami)
> 
> I think it's tactic to say to Kakashi "i got the sharingan from the bidge.." Since Kakashi know how to "damage" Tobi now - he'll just made him think "could it be possible that he is obito?" "Rin/Obitos story" is actually Kakashis biggest weakness, so Tobi is trying to confuse him.
> Well he added another comment like "i want to build a world where heros dont have to make pitifull excuses at graves"
> ...


Yes, why Obito himself if it can be a random someone of his family.


----------



## Raiden (Aug 14, 2012)

Axass said:


> Seriously, this chapter basically gave it away. I still remember the Tobi=Obito theories born right after his first introduction. Mostly as jokes. To think that after all these years those first week theories were actually (almost surely) on the spot. Damn Kishi, if this stuff, as it appears, ends up being true you suck at hiding things... Come on, call him something else; calling him Tobi was just sad...



It has no more depth than Nagato's secret. I'm also sure this will be quite a surprise for the majority fans who don't extract and connect the manga daily.


----------



## Flowing (Aug 14, 2012)

loool3 said:


> Yes, why Obito himself if it can be a random someone of his family.





Yes, i got it now. You are right, Madara was walking there randomly used randomly his Rinnegan to ressurrect him. But before he mixed some 1st Hokage DNA in to it, cut the dead body in to 3 pieces, created both Zetsu's and transfered his mind in to the 3rd one.


----------



## Talis (Aug 14, 2012)

Flowing said:


> Yes, i got it now. You are right, Madara was walking there randomly used randomly his Rinnegan to ressurrect him. But before he mixed some 1st Hokage DNA in to it, cut the dead body in to 3 pieces, created both Zetsu's and transfered his mind in to the 3rd one.


Yeah i got it now.
Tobi was walking randomly and saw a random fodder Uchiha lying under a rock.
The funny thing is that Obito's eye survived while Obito himself died, Tobi then randomly came up with idea of using the random fodders 2 tomoe'd eye.
Sounds legit.


----------



## insane111 (Aug 14, 2012)

I almost forgot about that picture where Kishi had written "Madara (Obito)" in his notes, which obviously wasn't meant to be legible. If anything that worries me the most, but it's kind of odd that he didn't write "Tobi (Obito)" instead. Maybe that means he really is some kind of hybrid thing.


----------



## Nic (Aug 14, 2012)

it is Tobi (Obito) lol


----------



## HakuGaara (Aug 14, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> U mad, bro?:ho



Uhh.. no? 

What would I be mad about?



Setsuna00 said:


> LOL. That makes no sense. Again. HOW DOES HE KNOW ABOUT KAKASHI STANDING IN FRONT OF GRAVES? And that act would be too specific in any case to warrant Tobi being anyone other than Obito.



It just means that Tobi is someone Kakashi knows. It's not like Obito is the only person that knows Kakashi.



Setsuna00 said:


> I've said this so many times, and NO ONE has a counter argument to it.



I just provided one. You're welcome.


----------



## Obito (Aug 14, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Nice post, Nic.
> 
> Now, check this out, people!
> 
> ...



Or maybe from his body going into a near death experience, he activated three tomoe and most possible. MS, which allowed him to teleport himself.


----------



## Nic (Aug 14, 2012)

probably simply a drawing mistake but it wouldn't be surprising if atm he awoken the third tomoe and suddenly teleported out.


----------



## Laura (Aug 14, 2012)

insane111 said:


> I almost forgot about that picture where Kishi had written "Madara (Obito)" in his notes, which obviously wasn't meant to be legible. If anything that worries me the most, but it's kind of odd that he didn't write "Tobi (Obito)" instead. Maybe that means he really is some kind of hybrid thing.



Does anyone have a link to that picture?


----------



## Obito (Aug 14, 2012)

Agsrower said:


> Does anyone have a link to that picture?



That's what I'm sayin'.


----------



## Nic (Aug 14, 2012)

someone reposted it in the prediction thread for this week, however there's 4k posts and there's no way i'm going to bother looking through that.


----------



## Laura (Aug 14, 2012)

Nic said:


> someone reposted it in the prediction thread for this week, however there's 4k posts and there's no way i'm going to bother looking through that.



Well there is the search option. Maybe give me some key words and a link to the thread and I'll try to find it.


----------



## Nic (Aug 14, 2012)

well i tried Naruto Movie, the problem is the search option isn't very good on this site, i'm sure someone might link it to you, and maybe i'll ask a friend if he remembers the exact title of the thread.
takl translated it if i remember it correctly, so you could ask him directly


----------



## Obito (Aug 14, 2012)

So sad... just watched the Kakashi Gaiden anime.

Heart = Broken.


----------



## Rinnegan Zetsu (Aug 14, 2012)

I'm still doubtful, but I definitely believe "Tobi" is Obito.


----------



## jacamo (Aug 14, 2012)

Flowing said:


> I'm kinda sure that Tobi is Obitos father. (maybe Kagami)
> 
> I think it's tactic to say to Kakashi "i got the sharingan from the bidge.." Since Kakashi know how to "damage" Tobi now - he'll just made him think "could it be possible that he is obito?" "Rin/Obitos story" is actually Kakashis biggest weakness, so Tobi is trying to confuse him.
> Well he added another comment like "i want to build a world where heros dont have to make pitifull excuses at graves"
> ...



good to know its not just me

:ho



Mistshadow said:


> ok Jacamo, answer my question on WHY someone would salvage a regular 2 tomoe sharingan eye? that's not so special. HOW would they know it had S/T abilities if it was awoken into MS.



Tobi (Kagami) would salvage it because Obito was his son

if Obito was his son then of course he would know his sons eye could awaken S/T abilities since Tobi's own MS has those abilities 

essentially its because theyre related... and remember i said *if*



> Makes more sense for it to be Obito who awakened it himself and has since trained it



not if there are plotholes associated to Obito


----------



## Easley (Aug 14, 2012)

hmm, 76 votes each. I think it's safe to say that people are divided on this issue.

I still hope for a red herring or something other than the obvious, but i won't be too upset if Tobi is Obito. I just wonder if his 'villain' death can ever match the one in Kakashi Gaiden for quality. 

I think this fight will be Tobi's last anyway


----------



## Laura (Aug 14, 2012)

Although personally I don't think that Tobi is Obito, I really hope he is- just for the troll factor and heaps of people will rage quit the manga. Hehehe..

Does anyone else feel the same way? (ie. like to watch the world burn).


----------



## Mariko (Aug 14, 2012)

WTF!

Is that a joke?!


----------



## Laura (Aug 14, 2012)

Honestly, it's been neck and neck since I voted, which was about 40 each I think. But they've stayed an almost dead heat the whole time.


----------



## Boradis (Aug 14, 2012)

If he's Obito, there's an underlying question this that I haven't seen addressed: _Who nursed him back to (partial) health?_

It likely wasn't Orochimaru, because given the vitality displayed by Tobi he'd make a good vessel.

Tobi's tendency to melt like a Zetsu lends credence to the theory he's got some Shodai Hokage grafted in there too. It would also explain his ability to wield a sharingan _without_ being a Uchiha. All Danzo needed was one arm's worth of Hashirama cells to operate 11 non-mangyeko sharingans.

So we have five possibilities:


He's Obito who's been patched up with Senju cells and god knows what else.
He's an as-yet unknown Uchiha (or Senju) who looted Obito's eye.
He's a non-human construct of some kind combining the above.
Some crazy/retarded thing that only makes "sense" in Japanese mythology.
Ass-pull.

I don't think Tobi's a Madara clone since that psycho seems just to want to kick ass and skip the name-taking. Madara wants to rule the world, but would rather do it by force. This guy wants to do it by genjutsu, which is a very Uchiha move. 

I'm also not convinced he's a Uchiha, despite his fondness for their symbols. That could easily be a red herring.

But I'm pretty positive he's either a Uchiha _or_ a Senju / Uzumaki. Those two clans are the center of this whole story.


----------



## cokshura (Aug 14, 2012)

Obito said:


> Or maybe from his body going into a near death experience, he activated three tomoe and most possible. MS, which allowed him to teleport himself.



When someone activates MS in the manga, it's Kishi's style to show a close up of the eye and the MS deign. That never happens when Tobi goes into his dimention so I don't think he needs the MS to shift dimentions (though I have no Idea why Kakashi doesn need MS for Kamui).


----------



## Talis (Aug 14, 2012)

78/78, i think some mod is trolling us lol.


----------



## fantzipants (Aug 14, 2012)

jayjay32 said:


> At a split end. Tobi says he got the eye from the bridge. Of course, he could be lying and he could in fact just be Obito considering all the hate he has for Kakashi.



No he doesn't he was just pissed cuz kakashi gave out his secret. Every time we saw tobi with kakashi he was simply indifferent to him like a fly. Orochimaru and sarutobi. That's hate. This doesn't even com close. Ithink even kabuto showed some hate towards sasori.


----------



## x5exotic (Aug 14, 2012)

ero_luffy said:


> WTF!
> 
> Is that a joke?!



This kinda makes me wanna scream >.< dafuq is up with people

He isn't obito and last chapter confirmed it


----------



## Raiden (Aug 14, 2012)

loool3 said:


> 78/78, i think some mod is trolling us lol.



Votes should have been made public .


----------



## Nic (Aug 14, 2012)

they've basically been tied since it was 62-62. lol


----------



## Laura (Aug 14, 2012)

Hey mods: Is it possible for one of you to troll us with this poll? I find it very hard to believe that an equal number of people are continually voting for each answer.


----------



## insane111 (Aug 14, 2012)

Nic said:


> it is Tobi (Obito) lol



That's not what it said 



Agsrower said:


> Does anyone have a link to that picture?



Yeah I found it easily by searcing "Narutoforum takl Madara (obito)" in Google 


I'm not sure what page the actual picture is on, but it doesn't matter Takl and Shadow both saw it and translated it.


----------



## Marsala (Aug 14, 2012)

insane111 said:


> That's not what it said
> 
> 
> 
> ...



of course that same excerpt also said that dark Naruto i.e. Menma was Shisui.


----------



## Obito (Aug 14, 2012)

cokshura said:


> When someone activates MS in the manga, it's Kishi's style to show a close up of the eye and the MS deign. That never happens when Tobi goes into his dimention so I don't think he needs the MS to shift dimentions (though I have no Idea why Kakashi doesn need MS for Kamui).



If his MS was shown, it would resemble Kakashi's and then there would be no purpose to hide his identity from us.

Anytime he has gone intangible, his face is covered in some way or his eye is covered by shadow.


----------



## Mistshadow (Aug 14, 2012)

jacamo said:


> Tobi (Kagami) would salvage it because Obito was his son
> 
> if Obito was his son then of course he would know his sons eye could awaken S/T abilities since Tobi's own MS has those abilities
> 
> ...



Mine makes more sense of it just being Obito, you're the one who is making things up out of no where.


----------



## Kisame3rd14 (Aug 14, 2012)

Nah i dont see tobi being obito, that's too obvious. And has been obvious since people using refrencing the name obito to tobi years back.


----------



## AMtrack (Aug 14, 2012)

Kisame3rd14 said:


> Nah i dont see tobi being obito, that's too obvious. And has been obvious since people using refrencing the name obito to tobi years back.



Idk how familiar you are with works of literature (esp children's) but obvious is usually correct.  Most material is usually dumbed down enough that a child wouldn't have too much difficulty "guessing" and getting the whole experience.

What is too obvious for (in my case) a guy who's gone through years of high school and college literature, writing god knows how many analyses on classical works, is probably a lot less obvious for a 12 year old.

I'm jus saying.


----------



## Rika24 (Aug 14, 2012)

Moon~ said:


> Obito is basically Harvey Dent of Naruto, that's what I'm going to say



lol, yeah, messed up face and all (and split persona included)



Shakar said:


> I'll post this here, since it deals with Tobi. It's no definitive proof of Tobi=Obito, but I think it's a pretty cool thing to share. Thanks to ObitoUchiha, who suggested me sharing this.
> 
> I'd like to highlight Tobi's body language in this chapter. During his speech to Kakashi, Tobi clearly points his finger at him, an action which . BTW, the article cites Naruto himself as a major offender..and we know Obito is clearly a parallel of him.



i believe Obito did point at Kakashi in the Gaiden as well.
clearly points his finger at him

and here's another hint:

Thinking back on the Sasuke vs Kakashi, Sakura, and Naruto chapter, i think this is a hint at Tobi being Obito. Naruto saying he could be in Sasuke's shoes, Menma from the new movie (a parallel world where everything is switched) is the masked man possessed by Tobi. Obito was seen as the Naruto of Kakashi's generation right? and Menma is alternate Tobi as well as AU Naruto... soooo Obito could have gone bad as this universe's evil Naruto 

i still think Tobi is possessed, or rather, Obito is (possibly Izuna since it can't be Madara's spirit anymore, like i thought). That, or like someone else said, there are memories linked inside the eye. 

thinking back on the Gaiden now

clearly points his finger at him
Obito somehow knows that the enemy was taken out, even though he can't see

clearly points his finger at him
Does anyone else get a feeling Kakashi could hear Obito's thoughts? 

clearly points his finger at him
and who could forget Obito's message of Kakashi becoming his way of seeing the future.


----------



## Mistshadow (Aug 14, 2012)

Kisame3rd14 said:


> Nah i dont see tobi being obito, that's too obvious. And has been obvious since people using refrencing the name obito to tobi years back.





AMtrack said:


> Idk how familiar you are with works of literature (esp children's) but obvious is usually correct.  Most material is usually dumbed down enough that a child wouldn't have too much difficulty "guessing" and getting the whole experience.
> 
> What is too obvious for (in my case) a guy who's gone through years of high school and college literature, writing god knows how many analyses on classical works, is probably a lot less obvious for a 12 year old.
> 
> I'm jus saying.



Occam's Razor


----------



## Footmax (Aug 14, 2012)

*Spoiler*: _Ch. 237_ 








Is it foreshadowing the current chapter (what Tobi said to Kakashi and Naruto) ? 
Maybe I'm reading too much into it...


----------



## Nic (Aug 14, 2012)

missed that link to the parallel themes, nice found.


----------



## Rika24 (Aug 14, 2012)

what episode did that appear in? the only one i know of that Kakashi is at the monument is episode 80


----------



## FouLu (Aug 14, 2012)

Tobi is Obito
He used Henge with Kisame and transformed his face into Madara's 8D (Or maybe used a genjutsu on him).
So the long haired Tobi and the one at the battlefield are different people.
 Last chapter left me with the feeling that the mask will only break after they kill him.


----------



## Golden Circle (Aug 14, 2012)

ero_luffy said:


> [sp][/sp]
> 
> WTF!
> 
> Is that a joke?!


You are so right, the Orange skin sucks.


----------



## Crona (Aug 14, 2012)

I want this to be over already. Tobi is already ruined for me  

I'll just stick by my intuition and say he's not Obito.


----------



## NW (Aug 14, 2012)

Tobi is Obito, bitches! DEAL. WITH. IT!


----------



## joshhookway (Aug 14, 2012)

Stop denying Tobito


----------



## NW (Aug 14, 2012)

*100% Proof that Tobi is NOT Obito! Get it through your heads!*

Alright, guys. So, I've always been a big Tobito supporter, but I've realized that it's just not possible. I mean, Tobi and Obito look absolutely NOTHING alike! So how could they be the same person? I mean, do they look alike to you? Just take a look at this and see how different they look from each other: 


See?





*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Garfield (Aug 14, 2012)

Tobi is Rin's lover.


----------



## Nic (Aug 14, 2012)

FouLu said:


> Tobi is Obito
> He used Henge with Kisame and transformed his face into Madara's 8D (Or maybe used a genjutsu on him).
> So the long haired Tobi and the one at the battlefield are different people.
> Last chapter left me with the feeling that the mask will only break after they kill him.



you don't die without flashbacks first in this manga. lol


----------



## Obito (Aug 14, 2012)

tobi is actually


*Spoiler*: __ 




a raichu


----------



## AlphaReaver (Aug 14, 2012)

Dat Eye Brow Gives It All Away!!


----------



## Sareth (Aug 15, 2012)

It's Obito's body for sure... but he's not in control of it.


----------



## RickMartin Ben Janardhan (Aug 15, 2012)

nice thread OP

i automatically knew u were being scarcastic once i saw the 1st panel.

they definetly do favor eachother. and their eyebrows are identical.


----------



## NW (Aug 15, 2012)

AlphaReaver said:


> Dat Eye Brow Gives It All Away!!


Those eyebrows.



Sareth said:


> It's Obito's body for sure... but he's not in control of it.


U mad, bro?



Dat RickMartin said:


> nice thread OP
> 
> i automatically knew u were being scarcastic once i saw the 1st panel.
> 
> they definetly do favor eachother. and their eyebrows are identical.


Lol, it's a Tobito support thread disguised as a Tobito hate thread.


----------



## Sareth (Aug 15, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> U mad, bro?


Why would I be mad? This thread supports my theory.


----------



## ovanz (Aug 15, 2012)

I agree with OP and photoshop.


----------



## BroKage (Aug 15, 2012)

Looks like an Obito, sounds like an Obito, the friend is Obito.


----------



## Tony Lou (Aug 15, 2012)

The appearance based argument is the reason why the Tobito theory was mocked for so long.

 It wasn't substancial enough for anyone to seriously consider the possibility until it literally happened.


----------



## Yuna (Aug 15, 2012)

The fact that you have to resort to using panels of Obito having his eyes half-closed due to being close to death and compare them to Tobi having his eyes completely open should tell you something.

When completely open, Obito's eyes do not resemble Tobi's very much. Also, congratulations on *deliberately breaking forum rules*.


----------



## Nic (Aug 15, 2012)

the problem is people will just say it's obito in body but not in mind. 

I think the parallel themes kishi has made proves he's obito in mind as well.


----------



## HakuGaara (Aug 15, 2012)

Nic said:


> the problem is people will just say it's obito in body but not in mind.
> 
> I think the parallel themes kishi has made proves he's obito in mind as well.



*What* parallel themes????


----------



## Closet Pervert (Aug 15, 2012)

I don't remember if i already answered this thread but no i do not think Tobi is Obito. It would be too stupid.


----------



## AMtrack (Aug 15, 2012)

I'm jus sayin it's highly unlikely Kishi is throwing like billions of red herrings.  That's not really his style.  I know people hate it but it seems like a Kishi development to me.


----------



## Laura (Aug 15, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Alright, guys. So, I've always been a big Tobito supporter, but I've realized that it's just not possible. I mean, Tobi and Obito look absolutely NOTHING alike! So how could they be the same person? I mean, do they look alike to you? Just take a look at this and see how different they look from each other:
> 
> 
> See?
> ...


----------



## Nic (Aug 15, 2012)

HakuGaara said:


> *What* parallel themes????


----------



## Nic (Aug 15, 2012)

Closet Pervert said:


> I don't remember if i already answered this thread but no i do not think Tobi is Obito. It would be too stupid.



Why is it stupid?


----------



## HakuGaara (Aug 15, 2012)

At the very most, it shows that there is a good chance that Tobi and Kakashi know each other. Beyond that, it doesn't show specifically that Tobi is Obito. After all, Obito isn't the only one who knows Kakashi and Tobito goes against established continuity.


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 15, 2012)

umm correct me if i'm wrong but who says Tobi has to be a uchiha? he could just be obsessed with eyes like orochimaru was


----------



## Inferno (Aug 15, 2012)

*Tobi was possibly at VOTE, so he might not be Obito*

VIZ scan:


Tobi said this in front of the only two people (at the time) that knew that he isn't really Madara. So there'd be no reason for him to lie or keep up the whole 'Madara act.' And note how he says that he stole cells from Hashirama during _"that infamous battle."_ It almost seems like he was a bystander or something. But if Tobi really was at VOTE, as he has no reason to lie to Kabuto and Zetsu, then he can't be Obito. 


Either Kishi meant for us to assume one thing though it really meant something else (because we though Tobi was Madara), or I'm just looking too much into things.


----------



## Yuna (Aug 15, 2012)

What? More evidence for why Tobi can't be Obito without a whole slew of retcons? I am shocked, I tell you. *Shocked*!


----------



## balthosai (Aug 15, 2012)

*If Tobi/Obito are the same then how did Tobi become old enough to fight Minato??*

it is pretty simple actually...

Obito is tall, he was obviously taller than Kakashi at the same age, so naturally he has the potential to be taller than Kakashi.

Kakashi himself is pretty tall as an adult, so naturally even as a teen Obito could easily be on par height-wise with any adult in the series including Minato(who btw, isn't that tall anyway).

So basically Obito looked like a fully grown adult when he fought Minato because he is just a tall dude.


----------



## Inferno (Aug 15, 2012)

Yuna said:


> What? More evidence for why Tobi can't be Obito without a whole slew of retcons? I am shocked, I tell you. *Shocked*!





**


----------



## Nic (Aug 15, 2012)

HakuGaara said:


> At the very most, it shows that there is a good chance that Tobi and Kakashi know each other. Beyond that, it doesn't show specifically that Tobi is Obito. After all, Obito isn't the only one who knows Kakashi and Tobito goes against established continuity.



believe what you want.  If you want to ignore the obvious parallels go ahead but the next few chapters will reveal everything anyways, so all we have to do is now wait a couple weeks.


----------



## SaiST (Aug 15, 2012)

Inferno said:


> VIZ scan:
> 
> 
> Tobi said this in front of the only two people (at the time) that knew that he isn't really Madara. So there'd be no reason for him to lie or keep up the whole 'Madara act.' And note how he says that he stole cells from Hashirama during _"that infamous battle."_ It almost seems like he was a bystander or something. But if Tobi really was at VOTE, as he has no reason to lie to Kabuto and Zetsu, then he can't be Obito.
> ...


As I said in , it may have come off a bit more ambiguous than that. Viz's translation is in line with my possible interpretation that does not specify his involvement—if any—in the battle at the Valley of the End... But it does infer that *he* stole Hashirama's tissue, not that it was simply stole*n*...

So, I'd still like a second, or third opinion about the stolen living tissue matter.


----------



## Inferno (Aug 15, 2012)

SaiST said:


> As I said in , it may have come off a bit more ambiguous than that. Viz's translation is in line with my possible interpretation that does not specify his involvement—if any—in the battle at the Valley of the End... But it does infer that *he* stole Hashirama's tissue, not that it was simply stole*n*...
> 
> So, I'd still like a second, or third opinion about the stolen living tissue matter.



It does say that he did it _*"during the battle"*_ but yeah we're still up to speculate because it's not much evidence.


----------



## Laura (Aug 15, 2012)

Inferno said:


> VIZ scan:
> 
> 
> Tobi said this in front of the only two people (at the time) that knew that he isn't really Madara. So there'd be no reason for him to lie or keep up the whole 'Madara act.' And note how he says that he stole cells from Hashirama during _"that infamous battle."_ It almost seems like he was a bystander or something. But if Tobi really was at VOTE, as he has no reason to lie to Kabuto and Zetsu, then he can't be Obito.
> ...



And that's why I think Madara lived for ages and made Tobi as a fusion of himself, some Zetsu and/or Hashirama and possibly some Obito. At least that's what makes the most sense to me at the moment.


----------



## BBQuyomi (Aug 15, 2012)

Seraphiel said:


> Everything is pointing to it yes. *I just hope there was actually more than 1 Tobi throughout the years then. Becaus rofl @ Minato if he died because of Obito.*


Well, knowing that the Tobi who battled against Minato already had all those ST jutsus ..


----------



## Laura (Aug 15, 2012)

BBQuyomi said:


> Well, knowing that the Tobi who battled against Minato already had all those ST jutsus ..



That's why a Madara hybrid mix makes much more sense.


----------



## Talis (Aug 15, 2012)

Something is bothering me.

Part 1 Kakashi: 26-27 years
Part 2: 29-30

Kakashis gaiden= ~10 years ago


I'd rather call it 15 years ago lol.


----------



## Laura (Aug 15, 2012)

Yeah it would have been a while before Naruto was born. Not to mention Minato hadn't been made Hokage yet.


----------



## Raventhal (Aug 15, 2012)

SaiST said:


> As I said in , it may have come off a bit more ambiguous than that. Viz's translation is in line with my possible interpretation that does not specify his involvement?if any?in the battle at the Valley of the End... But it does infer that *he* stole Hashirama's tissue, not that it was simply stole*n*...
> 
> So, I'd still like a second, or third opinion about the stolen living tissue matter.



Then try to figure out why he acted goofy with just Zetsu around.  I don't think it means anything except the author is cheap in trying to hide Tobi's multiple identities.


----------



## HakuGaara (Aug 15, 2012)

Nic said:


> believe what you want.  If you want to ignore the obvious parallels go ahead but the next few chapters will reveal everything anyways, so all we have to do is now wait a couple weeks.



Believe what you want.  If you want to ignore the *impossible leaps in logic and continuity*, go ahead but the next few chapters will reveal everything anyways, so all we have to do now is wait a couple weeks.



Inferno said:


> VIZ scan:
> 
> 
> Tobi said this in front of the only two people (at the time) that knew that he isn't really Madara. So there'd be no reason for him to lie or keep up the whole 'Madara act.' And note how he says that he stole cells from Hashirama during _"that infamous battle."_ It almost seems like he was a bystander or something. But if Tobi really was at VOTE, as he has no reason to lie to Kabuto and Zetsu, then he can't be Obito.



This would explain how Madara knows Tobi if Tobi was present and spying on his battle with Hashirama. As such, it would be further evidence that precludes Tobi from being Obito.


----------



## NW (Aug 15, 2012)

Luiz said:


> The appearance based argument is the reason why the Tobito theory was mocked for so long.
> 
> It wasn't substancial enough for anyone to seriously consider the possibility until it literally happened.


Lol @ you thinking this theory is based on solely appearance.



HakuGaara said:


> *What* parallel themes????


 Re-read the whole series, then you'll know.



Yuna said:


> The fact that you have to resort to using panels of Obito having his eyes half-closed due to being close to death and compare them to Tobi having his eyes completely open should tell you something.
> 
> When completely open, Obito's eyes do not resemble Tobi's very much.


What are you talking about? I used those two panels because of the parallels between them. And, Tobi's eyeshape mathes Obito's exactly, both open and closed. They have exactly the same arched up shape while open and oval-like shape while half-closed.

Stop being in denial and seing only what you want to see.

My post presented a whole bunch of panels showing Tobi and Obito making the same exact expressions and their eyes being the same shape. Just because you don't believe in a theory doesn't mean you shouldn't except something when it's presented. You are ignoring everything and making up lies about how their eyeshapes don't match. Go crawl under a rock and come back out only when you can have a proper debate and not make up lies about things.



			
				HakuGaara said:
			
		

> At the very most, it shows that there is a good chance that Tobi and Kakashi know each other. Beyond that, it doesn't show specifically that Tobi is Obito. After all, Obito isn't the only one who knows Kakashi and Tobito goes against established continuity.


That post specifically states that Tobi is Obito. Tobi has been saying all kinds of things that only Obito should be able to say to Kakashi. Stop denying Kishimoto's literary devices and witing style. Whatever. The truth will be revealed within the next few weeks, anyway. Then you'll see.

And please show me a few reasons why Tobito apparently goes against established continuity.


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## Easley (Aug 15, 2012)

Has Tobi said anything specific that _only_ Obito would know? I don't recall. If he's from Konoha then I'd expect much of this to be common knowledge. Kakashi and Gai are well known and the battle of Kannabi Bridge is recorded in history. Visiting the memorial is no great secret either.

Actually, it's not what he says but how he said it. There seems to be some deep resentment. Kakashi and Obito parted on pretty good terms - well, except for the dying part - so it must be corruption by Madara (if he's Obito of course).


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## Raventhal (Aug 15, 2012)

Easley said:


> Has Tobi said anything specific that _only_ Obito would know? I don't recall. If he's from Konoha then I'd expect much of this to be common knowledge. Kakashi and Gai are well known and the battle of Kannabi Bridge is recorded in history. Visiting the memorial is no great secret either.
> 
> Actually, it's not what he says but how he said it. There seems to be some deep resentment. Kakashi and Obito parted on pretty good terms - well, except for the dying part - so it must be corruption by Madara (if he's Obito of course).



Unless Zetsu recorded there journey it's pretty hard to picture anyone spouting the whole hero, promise entrusting, wishes, etc unless they are Obito.  I seriously doubt Kakashi is the type to go around telling people he promised Obito to protect Rin and failed.


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## NW (Aug 15, 2012)

Easley said:
			
		

> Has Tobi said anything specific that only Obito would know? I don't recall. If he's from Konoha then I'd expect much of this to be common knowledge. Kakashi and Gai are well known and the battle of Kannabi Bridge is recorded in history. Visiting the memorial is no great secret either.
> 
> Actually, it's not what he says but how he said it. There seems to be some deep resentment. Kakashi and Obito parted on pretty good terms - well, except for the dying part - so it must be corruption by Madara (if he's Obito of course).


The resentment probably comes from Kakashi opening his mouth too easily and failing to protect Rin. I also doubt alot of people would know that Kakashi made a promise to protect Rin and failed. Kakashi's promise was even referenced at the end of Part 1 and he talked the the Memorial Stone and said "As a jonin, I have subordinates, but I still regret it. Even with your eye, I couldn't have seen what would happen. If you were still alive... what would you say to me now? Eh... Obito?"

Obvious foreshadowing of Kakashi Gaiden, Part 2, and of Tobi(Obito)'s recent speeches to Kakashi.

Gaiden's placement was also suspicious. Like Kishi was introducing the main villain of Part 2.


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## HakuGaara (Aug 15, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> That post specifically states that Tobi is Obito.



Oh? So Tobi said 'I am Obito' and and I somehow missed it? Please show me where this is 'specifically stated'.



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Tobi has been saying all kinds of things that obly Obito should be able to say to Kakashi.



And as I've already pointed out (and which you happily ignored), Obito is not the only person to know Kakashi. It's not like Kakashi is some anti-social recluse. 

On top of that, if Tobi recovered Obito's body shortly after he died, then he was obviously using Zetsu to observe the battle and overheard everything that was being said.



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Stop denying Kishimoto's literary devices and witing style.



LOL. Like you're an expert apparently? Please enlighten me, o wise one!!!



ObitoUchiha111 said:


> And please show me a few reasons why Tobito apparently goes against established continuity.



I don't see the point since multiple people have already done so and you just completely ignore it but I will do so anyway.

Tobi was around long before Obito was born and continues to be around long after Obito died. Obito's life and death doesn't seem to have had any impact on Tobi's existence. They also have diametrically opposed dispositions. If you put these two *facts* together, it becomes *blatantly obvious* that they are not the same person. 

The reason it goes against continuity is because if Kishi reveals that Tobito is true, he would have to explain how Obito went from someone that was alive during Madara's heyday, to becoming a weak little kid with a completely different personality and then, after dying, became alive again as the powerful evil adult that he was before. 

Slight errors in time frames is one thing but creating such a huge continuity error like this has never been done before and is not reminiscent of Kishimoto's 'literary devices and writing style'. I doubt either he or his editors would ignore such a thing to the same extent that *you* have.


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## NW (Aug 15, 2012)

HakuGaara said:


> Oh? So Tobi said 'I am Obito' and and I somehow missed it? Please show me where this is 'specifically stated'.


Kishi said it.





> And as I've already pointed out (and which you happily ignored), Obito is not the only person to know Kakashi. It's not like Kakashi is some anti-social recluse.


"Everyone close to me has already died."

Also, why would anyone but Obito know the personal things about Kakashi that Tobi is saying? Just because someone else may know him doesn't mean they'd know _this_ about him.



> On top of that, if Tobi recovered Obito's body shortly after he died, then he was obviously using Zetsu to observe the battle and overheard everything that was being said.


If Tobi's not Obito, then why would he even CARE about what was said?! He has to be Obito in order for what Tobi's saying to make sense.





> LOL. Like you're an expert apparently? Please enlighten me, o wise one!!!


I, unlike you, pay attention to Kishimoto's writing style, his influences, and the themes he conveys. They all point to Obito. Even Japanese mythology hints at it.





> I don't see the point since multiple people have already done so and you just completely ignore it but I will do so anyway.


I ignore it cuz I'm tired of refuting them but I'll try again now.



> Tobi was around long before Obito was born and continues to be around long after Obito died. Obito's life and death doesn't seem to have had any impact on Tobi's existence. They also have diametrically opposed dispositions. If you put these two *facts* together, it becomes *blatantly obvious* that they are not the same person.


Tobi's first chronological appearance comes after Obito's death.

So how exactly is there any proof that he was around before Obito?



> The reason it goes against continuity is because if Kishi reveals that Tobito is true, he would have to explain how Obito went from someone that was alive during Madara's heyday, to becoming a weak little kid with a completely different personality and then, after dying, became alive again as the powerful adult that he was before.


Elaborate on how he was alive in Madara's "heyday".



> Slight errors in time frames is one thing but creating such huge continuity error like this has never been done before and is not reminiscent of Kishimoto's 'literary devices and writing style'. I doubt either he or his editors would ignore such a thing to the same extent that *you* have.


[/QUOTE]And yet you have yet to specifically address such errors. Don't come talking shit unless you can provide proof that Tobi was around in Madara's "heyday".

Btw, no one besides Obito fits Kishimoto's writing style and literary devices.


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## Laura (Aug 15, 2012)

Thanks for taking over the thread guys. There's way too much here to bother reading.


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## NW (Aug 15, 2012)

Agsrower said:
			
		

> Thanks for taking over the thread guys. There's way too much here to bother reading.


You're welcome!


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## NW (Aug 15, 2012)

Tobi and Obito have the exact same eyeshape, people. That's some very strong evidence towards them being the same person. People should think about this.


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## Laura (Aug 15, 2012)

But aren't most eyes in this manga very similar? They are all hand drawn to a limited amount of detail.


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## chnt (Aug 15, 2012)

definitely* not tobi


*Spoiler*: __ 



*most likely^

*Spoiler*: __ 



^i have no idea#

*Spoiler*: __ 



#


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## NW (Aug 15, 2012)

Agsrower said:


> But aren't most eyes in this manga very similar? They are all hand drawn to a limited amount of detail.


Well, yeah. For the most part they're all somewhat alike, but they all just look slightly different from the others, and Tobi's eyeshape matches Obito's perfectly. Even the eyebrows, eyelids, facial structure(and of course the hair) match.

Also, when Tobi closes his eye a little, it takes on a distinctly formed oval shape that only Obito's eyes have been shown to have when closed slightly. Just re-look at that compilation image I posted.

Trust me. I've studied each candidate's facial features(Shisui, Izuna, Kagami, and even Madara!) And only Obito's matches Tobi so perfectly. Well, I guess maybe Izuna could match as well, but it's not him for obvious reasons.





chnt said:


> definitely* not tobi
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


What do you mean by that?


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## Thebaxman (Aug 15, 2012)

ObitoUchiha111 said:


> Well, yeah. For the most part they're all somewhat alike, but they all just look slightly different from the others, and Tobi's eyeshape matches Obito's perfectly. Even the eyebrows, eyelids, facial structure(and of course the hair) match.
> 
> Also, when Tobi closes his eye a little, it takes on a distinctly formed oval shape that only Obito's eyes have been shown to have when closed slightly. Just re-look at that compilation image I posted.
> 
> ...



I seriously hope you don't think that the eye shape and what their eyes look like when they're closed matters to Kishi.


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## FacelessIdiot (Aug 15, 2012)

The physical features are very similar, there's no use denying that. The whole 'good guy turned bad guy' theme is also familiar in the manga, so I wouldn't put it past Kishi.

But I still don't think it's Obito. It may be because we've been burned before on him being Uchiha Madara, but I just can't see Obito being Tobi. 

Oh well, we'll find out soon enough.


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## Dragonus Nesha (Aug 15, 2012)

Discussion can be continued in the "."

Locking.


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