# how far would "composite hst" get in the tournament of power"?



## nyugimon (Dec 11, 2017)

assume they replaced frieza or tien with him. every character in hst fused into one being, abilities included. could they knock anyone out?


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## Blakk Jakk (Dec 11, 2017)

As far as Beerus’ knees.

No really, they get that far by begging for DBS to not absolutely slaughter them all in a picosecond.


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## Nep Heart (Dec 11, 2017)

HST has no business here.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 3


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## The Saltiest Pizza (Dec 11, 2017)

Yeah the power gap is just too big. Any named character in DBS could solo the HST, let alone monsters like Goku or Jiren.

In fact, Jiren could probably do standing in once place and using only his eyes.


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## nyugimon (Dec 11, 2017)

oh. i thought they'd do ok against some of the weaker folk.

-perfect hypnosis
-reality warping (courtesy of gremmy)
-future sight
-can turn into light
-x axis makes him/her intangible
-the ability to transfer all wounds to the opponent
-change the lethal dosage in air
-can fly
etc.

if anything it wuld be a good distraction because of the amount of hax but i guess the speed dif would be bad

Reactions: Like 1


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## Blakk Jakk (Dec 11, 2017)

Since this is composite HST, the series that stands the most chance is One Piece due to that crossover with Dragon Ball and Toriko.

So Luffy is star level and MFTL+ due to fighting Toeiland Goku.

And since our standards of canon are getting looser, that crossover is as canon to OP as Memories of Nobody is to Bleach

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 2 | Creative 1


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## The Saltiest Pizza (Dec 11, 2017)

nyugimon said:


> oh. i thought they'd do ok against some of the weaker folk.
> 
> -perfect hypnosis
> -reality warping (courtesy of gremmy)
> ...


Good hax and all, but it's difficult to gauge how well they work against people far more powerful than themselves. This is the no limits fallacy, that because something has not yet shown its upper limits, it has none. 

It may be worth nothing that Dragon Ball logic tends to lean towards enough brute force defeating hax. Jiren literally brute forced himself out of the time hax of another universal character.

A blood lusted DBS character is also fast enough to act before anyone at the HST level can blink. If they're smart, they just use an explosive wave and wipe everyone into dust.


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## Claudio Swiss (Dec 12, 2017)

Composite TOP would fuck composite HST harder

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Keishin (Dec 12, 2017)

Piccolo
Solos


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## MusubiKazesaru (Dec 12, 2017)

The HST likely gets accidentally killed by nameless fodder.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Volt manta (Dec 12, 2017)

The only way I ever see this being a match worth talking about is if speed were equal. And even then, it's just a issue of how many possible people composite HST could potentially hax out before someone  looks their way (in Jiren's case literally) and they die in the ensuing explosion.


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## nyugimon (Dec 12, 2017)

Volt manta said:


> The only way I ever see this being a match worth talking about is if speed were equal. And even then, it's just a issue of how many possible people composite HST could potentially hax out before someone  looks their way (in Jiren's case literally) and they die in the ensuing explosion.



tournament rules still apply so there prolly won't be any killing


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## Nep Heart (Dec 12, 2017)

Why would any God of Destruction even want to enter a bunch of feeble plebs into the ToP anyway?


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## Alita (Dec 12, 2017)

The only real problem for the composite HST character is speed. But the character would have plenty of hax to threaten basically anyone. This character would also have multiple forms of intangibility too as well as the ability to regenerate from nothing so even with the speed advantage it's going to be very hard to harm/kill the character with anything and the character doesn't have to tag someone for their hax to effect them either. The character can look or point in their general direction and mindfuck them, he can think and BFR them to another dimension, he can turn their bones to candy making them unable to move, etc.

With speed equal I don't see how he can lose tbh.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Keishin (Dec 12, 2017)

Dont some forms of ki use affect the opponent directly in a hax kind of way?


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## Galo de Lion (Dec 12, 2017)

Even Nardo top tiers still get speedblitz'd and oneshot by Raditz.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## Nep Heart (Dec 12, 2017)

Bypassing intangibility and dimensions aren't anything new to Dragon Ball. That, and Almighty is not gonna survive if there is no possible way to negate the incoming attack either.


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## Blakk Jakk (Dec 12, 2017)

I would laugh my ass off if OP has another crossover with Dragon Ball.

But the second crossover? It’s Dragon Ball Super 

Even better is if Luffy forces Goku to go UI

Reactions: Like 1


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## Nep Heart (Dec 12, 2017)

Gomu Gomu no Kami.


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## Volt manta (Dec 12, 2017)

Actually forgot what we're dealing with for a second here. Assuming speed equal:
-several forms of intangibility (at least Obito's and Lille Barro, with potentially more on top of that. That's not including logia like abilities, though those are notably far less useful here)
-several forms of mind hax, mind control, sensory manipulation, etc. (Sharingan hax, Tsukuyomi, KS, Pepe's love trash, As Nodt's fear hax, Tosen's Bell Bug. More problematic in that at least a few of these function in vastly different ways from each other. Immunity to one might not mean immunity to the other)
-Several passive automatic abilities (At least pretty sure that's how KS functions now, and Respira once it's activated does something similar. Pretty sure there's more on top of that)
-At least one form of soul hax (From Pain)
-At least one form of durability bypassing hax (From Ichibei. Lille Barro's abilities also do this as well)
Regeneration/ low key immortality (Depending on whether or not we include edo abilities in this mix. Other characters have regeneration; that's just the major one I could think of)
-Several forms of sensory capability and precognition (Narutoverse alone has that covered, with Bleach covering in second)
-Outright reality warping (Assuming composite HST isn't as burdened by that overwhelming amount of CIS as Gremmy was)
-What would Askin's ability do here in response to ki?
-Lawlmighty
Essentially, what you're seeing is one of the most frustratingly difficult to fight opponents if you're not in the mind to speedblitz or outright atomize your opponent as soon as the battle begins (which may not even work; in before another discussion on Allmighty mechanics). In a tournament where there's multiple members covering you, plenty of room to set-up (most of these abilities are automatic or literally take a second to activate) and and an express focus on_ not_ killing your opponent... you do the math.

Additional note: If everybody's in character, then this gets even worse. Assuming the rest of U7's there, everyone's going to be focused on the heavy hitters. A good majority of characters aren't even going to be paying attention to a person whose combined energy level would barely even tickle First Form Frieza back in the DBZ days. And that's if we're including composite.


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## Nep Heart (Dec 12, 2017)

I like how people are trying to argue that the DB side is not allowed to kill, but the HST side is... fucking hypocrisy, I swear.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Lucy75 (Dec 12, 2017)

The character should clear with speed equal at least due to all the hax he is capable of.



TTGL said:


> Even Nardo top tiers still get speedblitz'd and oneshot by Raditz.



Not if you are using composite narutoverse. Most of the god tiers in the anime are relativistic+ or faster.


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## Montanz (Dec 12, 2017)

They get ringed out with a gesture.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Keishin (Dec 12, 2017)

Stuff like Vanishing Point and kamui are useless because they are not passively on. Instant speedblitz


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## shade0180 (Dec 12, 2017)

Perona ghost mode and tossing the main HST body to some random dimension + hypnosis should let them get pretty far.


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## OrangePeel (Dec 12, 2017)

They get turned into a black ant


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Dec 12, 2017)

They would clear if Goku and Jiren hadn't handled Hit as they did (intangibility and durability ignoring attacks, time fuckery) and if the rules didn't have ring out.

Speed equal they clear thou, it's like 200 different powers, it could open with a BFR move and that would be it.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 12, 2017)

Theres that one guy that can just straight up make you forget he exists. Speed equal means he can use that over and over to sneak attack everyone easily.

Gremmy's cloning and Ichibei's ability to come back with a word makes him unkillable in speed equal.


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## 1337RedGlitchFox (Dec 12, 2017)

Man. I just came in here to talk about how Peronas Ghosts would make people.

I want to see an angsting 17.


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## Source of Hate (Dec 12, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Theres that one guy that can just straight up make you forget he exists.


Doesn't work on characters with higher DC. Regen also doesn't work if the attacker has higher DC. Oh, if a wall buster has the ability to go back in time, but is fighting against a city buster, the ability just doesn't work. DC is the one arbitrary stat that nulls everything else mate

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Dislike 1


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## Divell (Dec 12, 2017)

Nah. Other than a bit of speed they got some serious hax going for them.

Out of my mind.

Kyoka Suigetsu and other illusion powers.
Sasuke or Minato's teleportation.
Book of the End.
Logia, X-Axis and Kamui intangibility.
Let's not forget Kaguya's BFR.
Gerard immortality.
All Mighty's ability to see the future.
Ope Ope no Mi.
Ichibei's power deletion.
Gremmy's reality warping powers.
Composite HST is scarier than people think.


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 12, 2017)

Divell said:


> Nah. Other than a bit of speed they got some serious hax going for them.
> 
> Out of my mind.
> 
> ...



Most of the guys in the TOP, on average, can break solar systems or galaxies in two with a single attack.  No amount of hax is going to gave the Composite when the power levels are that much higher than them.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 12, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> Doesn't work on characters with higher DC. Regen also doesn't work if the attacker has higher DC. Oh, if a wall buster has the ability to go back in time, but is fighting against a city buster, the ability just doesn't work. DC is the one arbitrary stat that nulls everything else mate


literal bullshit. its called hax for a reason.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Winner 5


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## nyugimon (Dec 12, 2017)

i think they'd be a good support character for u7 too. have orihime's ability heal ppl or reflect all dmg back to opponents, or give everyone 9-tail fox chakra cloaks, etc.


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## Bad Wolf (Dec 12, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> literal bullshit. its called hax for a reason.


Yeah, even because they can't be killed by rules, so having that Dc isn't really that helping here. But without speed equal they're still screwed


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## nyugimon (Dec 12, 2017)

ok, what if everyone in the tournament of powah had speed equal? it would make things more interesting and tactical i tihnk


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Dec 12, 2017)

Even without speed equal, if someobe doesn't aims for it the second the tournament starts, it's going to be a serious threat

Because future vision intangible with timeline altering shit mindfuck BFR and illusions. And teleporth, flight, reactive evolution, poison... etc.

Isn't there a OP char that steals shadows or something?


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## OrangePeel (Dec 12, 2017)

their only chance is with speed equal, without speed equal the hst character would basically be a statue in front of db characters.


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## Kaaant (Dec 12, 2017)

They'd clear the DB film with beerus in it that's only SS level.


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## Claudio Swiss (Dec 12, 2017)

Forget composite Hst How strong composite TOP Dbs would be


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## Toaa (Dec 12, 2017)

Claudio Swiss said:


> Forget composite Hst How strong composite TOP Dbs would be


an invinsible ui regenerating jiren who can time stop,absorb attacks to get stronger and get zenkai?That can also multiply his speed a thousand times and even create an alternate world to attack from there?

Reactions: Like 1


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## nyugimon (Dec 12, 2017)

Toaa said:


> an invinsible ui regenerating jiren who can time stop,absorb attacks to get stronger and get zenkai?That can also multiply his speed a thousand times and even create an alternate world to attack from there?



dam son

he would finally beat superman with dat powah

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2 | Dislike 3


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## Claudio Swiss (Dec 12, 2017)

nyugimon said:


> dam son
> 
> he would *finally beat superman *with dat powah


pffft most characters in super could stomp (depending on what versions) of supes


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## Blakk Jakk (Dec 12, 2017)

Claudio Swiss said:


> pffft most characters in super could stomp (depending on what versions) of supes


Pre-Crisis Superman and above are where everyone save for Zeno stops at simply because of how ridiculous his overall stats and hax are.

Phantom Zone really shows how insane PC Superman was in overall power.


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## Toaa (Dec 12, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> Pre-Crisis Superman and above are where everyone save for Zeno stops at simply because of how ridiculous his overall stats and hax are.
> 
> Phantom Zone really shows how insane PC Superman was in overall power.


its sad that that pokemon beats him


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## Blakk Jakk (Dec 12, 2017)

Toaa said:


> its sad that that pokemon beats him


I think only Arceus beats PC Superman in raw stats.

Although the other Pokemon may have some decent hax on their side that he has no defense against.

But the problem is his speed. It’s infinite when he goes at full speed.


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## Toaa (Dec 12, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> I think only Arceus beats PC Superman in raw stats.
> 
> Although the other Pokemon may have some decent hax on their side that he has no defense against.
> 
> But the problem is his speed. It’s infinite when he goes at full speed.


im talking about the fact that zeno looks like a fucking pokemon


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## Blakk Jakk (Dec 12, 2017)

Toaa said:


> im talking about the fact that zeno looks like a fucking pokemon


Zeno also looks like a bald Hey Arnold

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Divell (Dec 12, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Most of the guys in the TOP, on average, can break solar systems or galaxies in two with a single attack.  No amount of hax is going to gave the Composite when the power levels are that much higher than them.


Mind fuck can still work, no? Respira as well no?


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## Toaa (Dec 12, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> Zeno also looks like a bald Hey Arnold


why did you do this.My eyes it burns.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Volt manta (Dec 12, 2017)

Bad Wolf said:


> Yeah, even because they can't be killed by rules, so having that Dc isn't really that helping here. But without speed equal they're still screwed


Without speed equal, someone literally carries them off the stage before they can even percieve it. There isn't even a point to this conversation with speed unequal.


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## Qinglong (Dec 12, 2017)

They explode looking in Jiren's general direction just from having Gremmy's retardation added to the mix

Reactions: Funny 5 | Winner 1


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## Gordo solos (Dec 12, 2017)

Composite HST still lacks the speed to do anything substantial

Trio de Dangers stomp

Even *with* speed equal, Jiren still murders them. I’m convinced he’ll brute-force his way through their hax

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Gordo solos (Dec 12, 2017)

Divell said:


> Mind fuck can still work, no? Respira as well no?


Respira isn’t working on nearly any of the U3 warriors


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## Fang (Dec 12, 2017)

nyugimon said:


> oh. i thought they'd do ok against some of the weaker folk.
> 
> -perfect hypnosis
> -reality warping (courtesy of gremmy)
> ...



>Gremmy
>reality warping worth a shit

Composite Shonen Trio kun makes his muscles bigger and then gets slayed by Toppo's fist.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 12, 2017)

Gordo solos said:


> Composite HST still lacks the speed to do anything substantial
> 
> Trio de Dangers stomp
> 
> Even *with* speed equal, Jiren still murders them. I’m convinced he’ll brute-force his way through their hax


pretty sure he cant brute force mindfuck or soulfuck


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## Gordo solos (Dec 12, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> pretty sure he cant brute force mindfuck or soulfuck


Goku and Freeza both have resistance to soulfuck. I don’t see why Jiren wouldn’t have it either


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## Volt manta (Dec 12, 2017)

Gordo solos said:


> Goku and Freeza both have resistance to soulfuck. I don’t see why Jiren wouldn’t have it either


And resistance to mindfuck, sensory manipulation, BFR, power erasure/ sealing, age hax, fear hax? Also, someone refresh me; when's the last time somebody in the DBZverse dealt with intangibility? (Not dimension hax; raw intangibility on the level of Lille Barro's)

All assuming speed equal and Composite has time to do shit, of course. If not, just refer to my previous comment.


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## Fang (Dec 12, 2017)

Volt manta said:


> And resistance to mindfuck, sensory manipulation, BFR, power erasure/ sealing, age hax, fear hax? Also, someone refresh me; when's the last time somebody in the DBZverse dealt with intangibility? (Not dimension hax; raw intangibility on the level of Lille Barro's)
> 
> All assuming speed equal and Composite has time to do shit, of course. If not, just refer to my previous comment.



Considering SSG level and above would by virtue of being able to wipe out a universe and Vegeta's feat of destroying the Room of Spirit and Time, breaking time-space and affecting intangibles and incorporeals should be a minimum here that Jiren can do. BFR also wouldn't help since you have several fuckers who can teleport, manipulate dimensions, and move between universes.

They also have their own hax like time-skip/stopping, absolute zero, making black holes, etc...

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## Gordo solos (Dec 12, 2017)

It’s not like dimensional BFR will do much anyways since Jiren can break his way through dimensional barriers


Age hax literally won’t work against most of the U3 warriors


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## SSMG (Dec 12, 2017)

The only person who's stop them is Jiren, maybe. 
Look at what a low level illusionist,an invisible man and a big dude could do to universe 7. Now put in someone with real hax...theyd solo universe 7.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Gordo solos (Dec 12, 2017)

Idk if I’d call the low-rent hax in the HST “real hax” ...


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## Fang (Dec 12, 2017)

They aren't going to get very far because 90% of the people in this bullshit HST amalgamation especially from the Naruto and Bleach side use their powers like retards. And we can naturally conclude that since this amalgamation would have those same characters personalities along with their powers mixed in, they are going to use their powers in the worst way possible.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 12, 2017)

Fang said:


> They aren't going to get very far because 90% of the people in this bullshit HST amalgamation especially from the Naruto and Bleach side use their powers like retards. And we can naturally conclude that since this amalgamation would have those same characters personalities along with their powers mixed in, they are going to use their powers in the worst way possible.



like Qing said, Gremmy's retardation would have the HST amalgam explode by looking at anyone relevant

Reactions: Funny 1


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## nyugimon (Dec 12, 2017)

SSMG said:


> The only person who's stop them is Jiren, maybe.
> Look at what a low level illusionist,an invisible man and a *big dude* could do to universe 7. Now put in someone with real hax...theyd solo universe 7.



you mean bug dude rite? cuz big dude sounds sarcastic

Reactions: Funny 1


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## SSMG (Dec 12, 2017)

nyugimon said:


> you mean bug dude rite? cuz big dude sounds sarcastic


Yeah I meant bug dude ahaha

Also Fang pis is turned off for vs matches. Just because the characyers where he'd gets his powers are dumb and, doesn't mean this warrior would be.


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## Source of Hate (Dec 12, 2017)

Fang said:


> They aren't going to get very far because 90% of the people in this bullshit HST amalgamation especially from the Naruto and Bleach side use their powers like retards. And we can naturally conclude that since this amalgamation would have those same characters personalities along with their powers mixed in, they are going to use their powers in the worst way possible.


Almighty. Not only does it make creativity unnecessary, but speed irrelevant too


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## Volt manta (Dec 12, 2017)

Allmighty has been dropped. I had nothing to do with this.


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## Source of Hate (Dec 12, 2017)

Oh right, everybody goes batshit crazy over it


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 12, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> Oh right, everybody goes batshit crazy over it



Except the Almighty has only been used to break weapons and "transformations".  

Not doing anything against flesh-and-blood.


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## Source of Hate (Dec 12, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Except the Almighty has only been used to break weapons and "transformations".
> 
> Not doing anything against flesh-and-blood.


Don't give me that. He cut Ichigo through Orihime's shield without breaking it, wrote his horn off of Ichigo's head and in his own hand. Willed Aizen's and Renji's arms chopped off. He made traps appear out of thin air, negated possibilities, removed concepts, revived after death, erased effects, "teleported." Even if you don't want to acknowledge that Yhwach can, as stated, "rewrite all futures" to do anything he pleases, this HST freak has no need of plans or reaction speed thanks to Almighty's mere ability to see all futures


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## Gordo solos (Dec 12, 2017)

Still gets a boot to the face from Vegeta


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 13, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> Don't give me that. He cut Ichigo through Orihime's shield without breaking it,



By changing the future to one where his _blocked attack _was able to hit. 



> wrote his horn off of Ichigo's head and in his own hand.



The Horn was part of Ichigo's transformation and "power", much like Tensa Zangetsu. 



> Willed Aizen's and Renji's arms chopped off.



Aizen was _posing as Renji _during the fight, and the illusion of Renji's Bankai causing Renji to physically lose his arm implies a connection similar to Komamura's Bankai - if the Arm is damaged, so is Renji's own body.



> He made traps appear out of thin air,



That is no different from what Tsukishima is capable of.  The only difference being Yhwach affects the future, not the past.



> negated possibilities, removed concepts, revived after death, erased effects, "teleported."



Give it a rest, would you?  All of the above doesn't mean anything if Yhwach himself _cannot _affect what he sees.  It is all in the description of his power: _he sees all *possibilities*, and can act on them.  _In other words, he cannot "Change the future" into _*impossibilities.   *_In other words, if there is a situation where it is impossible for him to win, because the gap in power is just that large, _he cannot bring such a future about._



> Even if you don't want to acknowledge that Yhwach can, as stated, "rewrite all futures" to do anything he pleases, this HST freak has no need of plans or reaction speed thanks to Almighty's mere ability to see all futures



Look at what I stated above. 

All that has to happen is for him to encounter a character it is impossible for him to beat, and that is that.[/quote]


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## Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha (Dec 13, 2017)

Universe 7 struggles to deal with invisibility, and smallness- most characters would get wrecked by a HST composite. ( in a tournament team battle setting, with no killing ) - a bloodlusted 1v1 is another matter.



Nobody is blitzing anybody- the MO of  nearly everyone in the tournament is to wait around and have formal duels. Who in character is doing the hypothetical blitzing?

1) multiple forms of invisibility and energy erasure+Mind control - nobody is going to know the composite character is there.

2) natural flight ( any bird zoan) and teleportation ( Sasukes ) - allow for easy knockouts for any non flyer.

Step 1

HST composite uses precognition at the start of the tournament while nobody is fighting and everyone is standing around- cause that's what everyone in the tournament canonically does in character. + nobody is going to know to blitz him immedi

Step 2

HST composite uses invisibility and energy erasure  ( Muu,Jiraiya, Gremmy, Nagato chameleon, etc... ) to hide.

Step 3

Use any of the many natural flight abilities to fly over the edge. ( Marco )

Step 4

Use Sasukes teleportation swap to teleport non fliers off the edge.

Step 5

Win.

With composite HST fighting alongside universe 7 - I don't see any way they could lose.

The personality of a composite character is an interesting one, I imagine that composite characters only get positive traits- not negative ones.

Or else the character commits suicide due to its millions of personalities clashing.

Assuming positive traits only- it has Zabuza's bloodlust, Uraharas planning, itachi's swag, aizens plot manipulation, and three protagonists worth of plot shield. 

It's literally impossible to lose. Not even Fairy tale would stand a chance

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 13, 2017)

What the HST folk want this fighter to look like:

Reactions: Funny 3


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Dec 13, 2017)

The hst would look like Kaguya when it lost control over the Bijuus.

In speed equal or if not targeted inmediately it is going to win the tournament and there's nothing anyone can do to stop it.

Is good that it's only like mach 10k.


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## Gunstarvillain (Dec 13, 2017)

Izanagi Izanagi clones cookies turn into a doll jail balance antithesis pernida clones almighty push soulfuck timefuck summon autolife immortality invulnerability amor body control love anything control Fear the yourself"both parts" KS almighty surgery dome respira bookend gates dans ghost ability hazmat 

So comp hst can become opponents and take kit plus more.


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## Volt manta (Dec 13, 2017)

Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha said:


> Nobody is blitzing anybody- the MO of  nearly everyone in the tournament is to wait around and have formal duels. Who in character is doing the hypothetical blitzing?


In regards to this, nobody. In character, practically everybody in the tournament is some degree of either grandstanding badass, respectful general type, or full on analyst (in some cases, all three). I honestly can't think of a single opponent who outright charged their opponent from the get-go without announcing their presence. Nor do I think there's anyone who would be "rational" (suicidal) enough to outright charge the entirety of team U7 from the get-go. So going to say highly unlikely on the start of the tournament blitzing.


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## Divell (Dec 13, 2017)

Gordo solos said:


> Respira isn’t working on nearly any of the U3 warriors


Don't remember why? Unless you meant Mindfuck.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Dec 13, 2017)

If speed is not equal, they stop at whoever is first. If it is equal then, damn. 

- Speed Equal means that HST is gonna have the speed advantage with CoO (CoO>>>>>Ultra Instinct), and because of Noro Noro no Mi, you can argue that they can break out of time stop hax, IDK, but even then, there's Baraggan.
- The whole field is at their advantage, with two awakened devil fruits, so if they are going to ring out, the ring just moves to catch them.
- Minato's teleportation means that they can't ring out.
- Kamui means they can't ring out.
- HST has the most methods of incapacitation. Namely Aizen, various Genjutsu, and the best one: Hobe Hobe no Mi.
- Hobe Hobe no Mi + Hana Hana no Mi 
- Ope Ope no Mi so that any blast directed towards HST composite now is going back at the character from DBS, since they can switch places.
- If DBS tries to ring out the HST, the Ope Ope no Mi just switches places millimetres before the ring out happens and it's a ring out for One Piece.


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## Masterblack06 (Dec 13, 2017)

Wait a minute. What if they abuse Gremmy's shit reality warping to blow themselves up so they can abuse Gerards Miracle and- Oh wait they got ringed out already nevermind.

I feel like Torikoverse would be needed here just for them to at least survive the first couple seconds.


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## SSBMonado (Dec 13, 2017)

If it's a composite HST character, wouldn't it be fair to make it a composite ToP character, too? 
You know, invisible and un-sense-able UI Jiren with Time Skip and 300 times normal strength and speed.


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## Kurou (Dec 13, 2017)

Volt manta said:


> In regards to this, nobody. In character, practically everybody in the tournament is some degree of either grandstanding badass, respectful general type, or full on analyst (in some cases, all three). I honestly can't think of a single opponent who outright charged their opponent from the get-go without announcing their presence. Nor do I think there's anyone who would be "rational" (suicidal) enough to outright charge the entirety of team U7 from the get-go. So going to say highly unlikely on the start of the tournament blitzing.




Must have missed 17 trying to off u2 at their onsrt


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## Mr. Black Leg (Dec 13, 2017)

Masterblack06 said:


> Wait a minute. What if they abuse Gremmy's shit reality warping to blow themselves up so they can abuse Gerards Miracle and- Oh wait they got ringed out already nevermind.
> 
> I feel like Torikoverse would be needed here just for them to at least survive the first couple seconds.



First couple of picoseconds, maybe. 

As I said, without speed equal, it's an unholy stomp.


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## Source of Hate (Dec 13, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> By changing the future to one where his blocked attack was able to hit.


Nope that is never stated. It is never stated that Yhwach *interchanges* futures. It's stated that he *rewrites* them. And he can make all of them the same. Explain to me how Yhwach is capable of making all futures the same when according to you he can only interchange them.



> The Horn was part of Ichigo's transformation and "power", much like Tensa Zangetsu.


Well I guess you can get away with that one



> Aizen was posing as Renji during the fight, and the illusion of Renji's Bankai causing Renji to physically lose his arm implies a connection similar to Komamura's Bankai - if the Arm is damaged, so is Renji's own body.


When Aizen posed as Ichigo, Yhwach removed his arm with the Almighty



> That is no different from what Tsukishima is capable of.  The only difference being Yhwach affects the future, not the past.


The method is different.



> Give it a rest, would you?  All of the above doesn't mean anything if Yhwach himself cannot affect what he sees.  It is all in the description of his power: he sees all possibilities, and can act on them.  In other words, he cannot "Change the future" into impossibilities.   In other words, if there is a situation where it is impossible for him to win, because the gap in power is just that large, he cannot bring such a future about.


Wow man none of that is *ever* stated. Your misinterpretation of A is shattered by the fact that Yhwach could even get over Ichibei as an "ant."
He *can* change the future into impossibilities because of the above and because *He Broke Ichigo's Bankai*.



> Look at what I stated above.
> 
> 
> All that has to happen is for him to encounter a character it is impossible for him to beat, and that is that.


The argument against this HST freak is that he gets speedblitzed. Almighty doesn't allow that, and neither does it allow room for error. That is to say that Almighty guarantees the most effective use of this character's ridiculous number of powers to where CIS is not a factor. That is only with the futures-seeing aspect of the Almighty. No future reality warping involved yet.


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## Volt manta (Dec 13, 2017)

Kurou said:


> Must have missed 17 trying to off u2 at their onsrt


I did, actually. Though considering 17's actually on hypothetical Composite's team, not sure that helps. 


SSBMonado said:


> If it's a composite HST character, wouldn't it be fair to make it a composite ToP character, too?
> You know, invisible and un-sense-able UI Jiren with Time Skip and 300 times normal strength and speed.


If you mean making an additional character to slot onto U11, i'm not sure the distinction matters given all the kinds of shit Composite has on their side (Not to mention it's still highly likely they'd get their set-up. Even more so actually, provided they're carting Jiren's personality). The only thing that might make even a sizable difference is the invisible portion, and considering Composite has literally all the sensory capabilities, whoever it is might as well still be out in the open.

Unless you're talking 1v1, in which case 
...It's actually that much worse in-character, honestly. Provided there's not an immeadiate blitz, HST Composite still has all the capability to turn Composite ToP into several kinds of drooling vegetable, and from start position. I wouldn't rely on Jiren's personality to be the one to make that blitz, given his track record of... Not taking seriously opponents that don't mean shit to him. And considering Composite HST would be rocking a combined power level that's literally still underneath bottom-line fodder in this tournament... It's a fair assessment to make that he's not going to give a shit.

Unless you're talking speed unequal, in which case

*Spoiler*: __ 



No seriously. Just

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Atem (Dec 13, 2017)

Yamcha solos.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Black Leg Sanji (Dec 13, 2017)

Fang said:


> >Gremmy
> >reality warping worth a shit
> 
> Composite Shonen Trio kun makes his muscles bigger and then gets slayed by Toppo's fist.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 13, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> Nope that is never stated. It is never stated that Yhwach *interchanges* futures. It's stated that he *rewrites* them. And he can make all of them the same. Explain to me how Yhwach is capable of making all futures the same when according to you he can only interchange them.



The "why" being what makes the "Almighty" a form of causality manipulation - once he changes the future to a specific one, _he can set it in stone, and make that the only possibility.  
_


Source of Hate said:


> When Aizen posed as Ichigo, Yhwach removed his arm with the Almighty




*Spoiler*: __ 








Notice what is off, about this picture?



Source of Hate said:


> Wow man none of that is *ever* stated. Your misinterpretation of A is shattered by the fact that Yhwach could even get over Ichibei as an "ant."
> He *can* change the future into impossibilities because of the above and because *He Broke Ichigo's Bankai*.



Back then, Yhwach's power was described as "knowing any power", and making those powers unable to hurt or kill him.  Ever consider it was that part of the "Almighty" that negated Ichimonji?

Also, that is a rather loaded statement from you, claiming it is "impossible" for someone as strong as Yhwach to break Tensa Zangetsu, when the fact he was able to do so with "The Almighty" points towards the opposite - _that it was possible, _and that Yhwach was able to bring that future about in the present.  

You want "The Almighty" to be this nonsense worthy of Suggs that has "no limits", when it is entirely possible to infer what limits the power has:

1. It can only "alter the future" one event at a time.  The advantage is that he can pick and choose which "possibilities" to alter.

2. He cannot just "alter the future" to injure or kill someone instantly; he needs to physically attack someone to injure them (or lay a trap to do so), and he can only "alter the future" to directly injure someone if one of his previous strikes missed.  

3. "The Almighty" has always been about seeing _all possible futures.  _Trying to claim that the "Almighty" creates "impossible futures" is contradictory to its own function.  

4. "The Almighty's" extent to "alter the future" is limited by Yhwach's own power at any given moment, as the "possibilities" he sees _*are tied to what he himself is capable of.*_  Otherwise, he would have been able to kill Yamamoto and Ichibei both a thousand years ago, rather than be sealed for a thousand years, so he could try again when he was more powerful.

In other words: If he can break someone's Bankai, it means it is possible for him to do so; if he can "alter the future" where he dies, that implies a possibility where he was able to survive the attack that kills him.



Source of Hate said:


> The argument against this HST freak is that he gets speedblitzed. Almighty doesn't allow that, and neither does it allow room for error. That is to say that Almighty guarantees the most effective use of this character's ridiculous number of powers to where CIS is not a factor. That is only with the futures-seeing aspect of the Almighty. No future reality warping involved yet.



In other words, you are calling for "no limits fallacy", with the way you have been describing "The Almighty".  Yes, it is possible to speed-blitz a user of the "Almighty", _because there are guys in the Tournament who are just that much faster than him.  _As I'll remind you, the last time I checked, _no one in the HST is faster than light, characters which the Tournament is filled with._ 

Furthermore, the gap in overall power is too vast for the HST composite to overcome.  Perhaps only the absolute weakest fighters in the Tournament would be susceptible to the Composite's abilities, but that is it.  Anyone else with a respectable amount of power, and able to hold their own in the Tournament, would be able to walk all over the HST Composite, due to the power-gap.


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## Volt manta (Dec 13, 2017)

As dear boy Sasuke found out when he was fighting Rock Lee for the first time, precognition means jack shit when your body still isn't able to keep up with your opponents movements. Speed unequal, in a tournament with fighters who are potentially thousands to millions of times faster than him? The only thing the Allmighty will be "seeing" is every inevitable future in which it was already carried off the stage.


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## Gordo solos (Dec 13, 2017)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> If speed is not equal, they stop at whoever is first. If it is equal then, damn.
> 
> - Speed Equal means that HST is gonna have the speed advantage with CoO (CoO>>>>>Ultra Instinct), and because of Noro Noro no Mi, you can argue that they can break out of time stop hax, IDK, but even then, there's Baraggan.
> - The whole field is at their advantage, with two awakened devil fruits, so if they are going to ring out, the ring just moves to catch them.
> ...


They don’t have the advantage even with speed equal since Dyspo can momentarily amplify his speed thousands of times over. He’s so fast even Gods of Destruction can’t track him


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## OrangePeel (Dec 13, 2017)

vanishing point would give them the advantage of first strike (with speed equal ofc)

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Volt manta (Dec 13, 2017)

Gordo solos said:


> They don’t have the advantage even with speed equal since Dyspo can momentarily amplify his speed thousands of times over. He’s so fast even Gods of Destruction can’t track him


Literally means nothing when you're intangible. And please don't tell me you honestly believe Dyspo is going to throw himself at the entirety of team U7 as soon as the tournament starts. In order to directly target the "scrub," no less.


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 13, 2017)

> Almmighty makes speedblitz imposible
>Allmighty has no room for error

Source of shit is back with his retarded wank. Please stop replying to him. Keep this thread healthy.


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## Masterblack06 (Dec 13, 2017)

The only thing the almighty will see are 2 big ol aylmao eyes staring back at them. Jirens almost on Peter Parker level of staredowning stuff

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mr. Black Leg (Dec 13, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> > Almmighty makes speedblitz imposible
> >Allmighty has no room for error
> 
> Source of shit is back with his retarded wank. Please stop replying to him. Keep this thread healthy.


Agreed.



Gordo solos said:


> They don’t have the advantage even with speed equal since Dyspo can momentarily amplify his speed thousands of times over. He’s so fast even Gods of Destruction can’t track him



That is one fighter though.

I'd go for the combo:

> Spamming Kage Bunshin + Spamming sprouting Hana Hana no Mi in the bodies of the fighters + Touch with Hobi Hobi no Mi, turning them into toys + Main Body goes to another dimension and there stays until the fight is finished(Doa Doa no Mi) + Some bunshin use Kyoka Suigetsu, some use tsukuyuomi 
> If anything goes South Ope Ope no Mi to change positions with an enemy or a mate and have X-Axis on at all times


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## Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha (Dec 13, 2017)

Speed blitz  is irrelevant, this isn't composite vs TOP,

It's composite fighting alongside universe 7.

Nobody in character is targeting composite HST the moment the fight starts.

1) nobody is rushing an unknown
2) even if they did for some unknown reason, HST composite has the back up of universe 7 for protection.
3) if anyone tries a sneak attack, people like Toppo will come to his defense, suggestion dyspo would sneak attack is bullshit.

How is dyspo even blitzing an invisible, intangible,teleporting - precog?

Jiren gets eliminated via getting BFR'd out of bounds. 

The biggest problem, is the format. TOP allows for sneakiness/hax to excel considering killing is banned and it's a group event.

Basic invisibility is considered to be a trump card....

Assuming that HST composite survives for a few seconds, it becomes near impossible to reasonably overcome in the format.

Every sharingan in existance would allow the composite character to Izanagi itself back nonstop for the time limit. - and until jiren overcomes reality warping, he isn't doing shit to HST composite.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1 | Informative 1


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## DarkTorrent (Dec 13, 2017)

if the speed is unequal then the composite character won't even know what the fuck is going

the gap in speed is just too huge

the only chance the composite character has is with speed equal


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## Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha (Dec 13, 2017)

DarkTorrent said:


> if the speed is unequal then the composite character won't even know what the fuck is going
> 
> the gap in speed is just too huge
> 
> the only chance the composite character has is with speed equal



There is no evidence that the characters are moving FTL all the time. 

For the majority of the time, everyone is standing still not doing anything. 

How is jiren standing still meditating, still too fast to process?

Reactions: Informative 1


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## DarkTorrent (Dec 13, 2017)

Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha said:


> There is no evidence that the characters are moving FTL all the time.
> 
> For the majority of the time, everyone is standing still not doing anything.
> 
> How is jiren standing still meditating, still too fast to process?



never said that it was all the time, though even when they are not using their top speed it's till too fast for a relativistic character to process

nonetheless there is a lot of shit that was done for the viewer's sake

even "standing still for 5 min" can actually be happening in less than a nanosecond

core of the matter is all other characters are FTL, they are fighting each other

if you believe that a relativistic character in those circumstances can tag anyone, that is your prerogative

but the truth is that the potential opponents are far too superiour in reaction speed and movement speed for the composite character to successfully tag them with an attack


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## Masterblack06 (Dec 13, 2017)

If composite hst character can pull a giratina and hide while attacking from another dimension they might be able to pull something off but I'm not sure who can do that. Also if their own team is aware of their abilities maybe they can abuse Gerard miracle to pump themselves up enough to actually make use of gremmys reality warping. Combine that with shadow clones and that could get a bit crazy. They also have that one poison guy from bleach that could incapacitate people with shenanigans hes got. Now that I think about it. The poison thing might be there best bet. During the beginning of the tourney when the U7 crew was chilling around the pillar that would be their best chance right there to do anything. All this is at best speculation though


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## Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha (Dec 13, 2017)

DarkTorrent said:


> never said that it was all the time, though even when they are not using their top speed it's till too fast for a relativistic character to process
> 
> nonetheless there is a lot of shit that was done for the viewer's sake
> 
> ...



The time sitting around isn't changed for the viewer because every episode we are told how much time is remaining in he TOP- so we know how much time passes per episode, in universe. 

When an FTL character stops to have a 2 minuet chat, or decides to stand still and watch others- even a relativisic  character can hit them. The majority of characters spend 99% of their time standing still watching.- 

So, yes- I think a relativistic character that is invisible, and it's attacks are untraceable- can hit a ftl character that is standing still.

At the very least- jiren is fucked- cause he doesn't move much at all. 

And with jiren out- universe 7 stomps. 

what happens when composite character uses hax to turn all air in the arena into poisen, while invisible and undetectable? 

It doesn't matter how fast you are- if there is nowhere to run to.


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## DarkTorrent (Dec 13, 2017)

Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha said:


> The time sitting around isn't changed for the viewer because every episode we are told how much time is remaining in he TOP- so we know how much time passes per episode, in universe.
> 
> When an FTL character stops to have a 2 minuet chat, or decides to stand still and watch others- even a relativisic  character can hit them. The majority of characters spend 99% of their time standing still watching.-



unless specifially stated that the chat lasts "2 mins" etc, they actually happen faster

again, there is a lot that is done for the viewers sake



> So, yes- I think a relativistic character that is invisible, and it's attacks are untraceable- can hit a ftl character that is standing still.



iirc there is no invisibility ability in HST that can make the character completely untraceable, Muu's f.e. can still be sensed

dunno about making actual attacks invisible



> At the very least- jiren is fucked- cause he doesn't move much at all.
> 
> And with jiren out- universe 7 stomps.
> 
> ...



poison doesn't ignore durability around here anymore

though I think you are referencing that Quincy guy, whose ability is a bit more complicated than usual poison

but there is also alien anatomy that needs to be taken into account, or the fact that some of their opposition is actually robots

not to mention I don't think anyone in HST has the feat that supports the possibility of turning something so vast as the TP's arena's atmosphere into poison


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## OrangePeel (Dec 13, 2017)

DarkTorrent said:


> unless specifially stated that the chat lasts "2 mins" etc, they actually happen faster
> 
> again, there is a lot that is done for the viewers sake
> 
> ...


vanishing point, son. Can't be sensed, makes his existence vanish (also turns him intangible I think).


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## Mr. Black Leg (Dec 13, 2017)

Every post here arguing anything better be arguing in a Speed Equal scenario. If it's not that, HST composite is shit out of luck.


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## DarkTorrent (Dec 13, 2017)

OrangePeel said:


> vanishing point, son. Can't be sensed, makes his existence vanish (also turns him intangible I think).



it's some sternritter ability, right?

don't remember anyone bringing it up in other matches before, so I dunno if it's as broken as you are implying 

so how was it countered, were mechanics behind it elaborated on? how did the user get defeated?


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## OrangePeel (Dec 13, 2017)

DarkTorrent said:


> it's some sternritter ability, right?
> 
> don't remember anyone bringing it up in other matches before, so I dunno if it's as broken as you are implying
> 
> so how was it countered, were mechanics behind it elaborated on? how did the user get defeated?


I just checked it now, basically his power has 3 phases. Phase 1 is the regular invisible version where he is still physically there, but can't be sensed. Phase 2 his existence vanishes from the physical realm, turning him intangible. Phase 3 his existence vanishes from the opponent(s) mind. He can switch from phase 1 to 2 instantly, which leaves behind an afterimage (probably not useful here), giving you the impression you hurt him. He was defeated by gremmy, after all he was imagined into existence by gremmy.


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## DarkTorrent (Dec 13, 2017)

OrangePeel said:


> I just checked it now, basically his power has 3 phases. Phase 1 is the regular invisible version where he is still physically there, but can't be sensed. Phase 2 his existence vanishes from the physical realm, turning him intangible. Phase 3 his existence vanishes from the opponent(s) mind. He can switch from phase 1 to 2 instantly, which leaves behind an afterimage (probably not useful here), giving you the impression you hurt him. He was defeated by gremmy, after all he was imagined into existence by gremmy.





was he unable to erase himself from Gremmy's mind?


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## OrangePeel (Dec 13, 2017)

DarkTorrent said:


> was he unable to erase himself from Gremmy's mind?


Gremmy just said he "can't imagine his (the vanishing point dude's) future an longer", and the dude just exploded. His power turned out to be too good, in the fact that even gremmy forgot him.


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## Gunstarvillain (Dec 13, 2017)

If comp hst being is truly composite 
4 different spectrums of intangibility
Law's surgery room×askin's hazard dome
Not to mention said being is logia, can reishi shred=matter pull due to Opie with jail.

Can become the stage "onepiece" 

Strangle any opponents due to Robin nico 

Shadow manipulation/shadow+soul steal/shadow generation 

About 17 different ways to be mind fucked at the same time 

Body switch

Stonelove arrows

Sound manipulation, sound hypnosis, balance manipulation

Instant rebirth 6 different ways 

Shinji's sakanade bankai 

And gas and poison logia users are op


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## DarkTorrent (Dec 13, 2017)

OrangePeel said:


> Gremmy just said he "can't imagine his (the vanishing point dude's) future an longer", and the dude just exploded. His power turned out to be too good, in the fact that even gremmy forgot him.



Gremmy saying that he can't imagine this dude's future implies the opposite of forgetting tbh


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## WorldsStrongest (Dec 13, 2017)

They get horrendously shitblitzed with no diff

And 1 shotted with even less diff

Before they can even think the word "hax" they die bloody


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## OrangePeel (Dec 13, 2017)

DarkTorrent said:


> Gremmy saying that he can't imagine this dude's future implies the opposite of forgetting tbh


he made himself vanish from gremmy's mind (and gremmy notes this), which led to a portion of his body just dissapearing. Then the dude was like FU gremmy and charges him, at which point gremmy says he doesn't know who he is and that line about the future, immediately after the guy goes kaput. The translations could be clearer, but this dude was basically "unimaged" by gremmy.


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## Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha (Dec 13, 2017)

DarkTorrent said:


> unless specifially stated that the chat lasts "2 mins" etc, they actually happen faster
> 
> again, there is a lot that is done for the viewers sake
> 
> ...



I'll drop the "everyone is sitting around doing nothing" argument since even if it is done for viewer benefit- it's done to an unquantifiable amount. 

However- characters like jiren are sitting still for the entire time- regardless of viewer perspective. 

No abilties that allow invisiblity to be completly untraceable? 

A) Gremmy  created a Quincy that had the power to remove itself from someone's perception. - Gremmy himself was the one to kill it. The Quincy also erases people's memory of it- so nobody knows he existed in the first place. 

The character can become invisible- capable of riding on someone's back, without them noticing. 

As for invisible attacks- limbo, and X-axis are invisible. 

Askin doesn't manipulate poison but rather dosage. He can change the amount of dosage that is lethal to an individual. The restriction being that he is required to have consumed whatever "poison" he is Manipulating. 

Regardless of species,- if Askin gets a taste of your energy ( he doesn't literally have to lick you- but just sense it) he can make your own energy poisenous to you. 

Askin doesn't generate poison- rather he manipulates someone else's resistance to "poison"

Robots may be immune- but their leader isn't. And, it isn't like the rest of universe 7 can't deal with them.


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## OrangePeel (Dec 13, 2017)

Technically, via mayuri's superhuman drug, the character could have ~42c reaction speed, still not enough but just saying

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Volt manta (Dec 13, 2017)

Gunstarvillain said:


> If comp hst being is truly composite
> 4 different spectrums of intangibility
> Law's surgery room×askin's hazard dome
> Not to mention said being is logia, can reishi shred=matter pull due to Opie with jail.
> ...


Shinji's Sakanade->Aizen's KS->Tosen's Bell Bug (throw in vanishing point to make sure your opponent doesn't even remember they saw you activate it)= an absolute nightmare on a field level. Shadow clones and real clones to cover the field, and watch the entirety of the rest of the universe's flail themselves to death while you watch. Make sure to throw in intangibility while you get out the popcorn; don't want to accidentally get swept up in the resulting blast craters or energy waves. And there's always Izanagi if you do.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Mr. Black Leg (Dec 13, 2017)

Gunstarvillain said:


> Strangle any opponents due to Robin nico


lolnope. No one in DBZ EoS is getting strangled by what HST composite can dish out, let alone DBS.



Masterblack06 said:


> If composite hst character can pull a giratina and hide while attacking from another dimension they might be able to pull something off but I'm not sure who can do that.


Doa Doa no Mi. Kaguya. Kamui/Sasuke.



DarkTorrent said:


> poison doesn't ignore durability around here anymore
> 
> though I think you are referencing that Quincy guy, whose ability is a bit more complicated than usual poison


No it's not hax anymore. And yes it's different from poison. It makes the amount of something that you need to be poisoned by lower . Like, oxygen might kill you in higher concentrations(Due to being a oxidant), the ability is like turning the amount to kill you, the normal amount that is in the atmosphere.


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## Masterblack06 (Dec 13, 2017)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Doa Doa no Mi. Kaguya. Kamui/Sasuke.


Dont they need to actually peek out to attack from those dimensions though?


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 13, 2017)

To adress an earlier post of someone....
Actually, poison ignores durability. Mainly, the types of poison that harms the victim by disturbing their biochemical processes. We just had a meta thread disucssing this.
The  poisons that aren't part of this category like gas or liquefied poisons that corrode or melt shit. Those poisons have to go through durability.
So yes, poison is a solution for this match-up


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## Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha (Dec 13, 2017)

OrangePeel said:


> Technically, via mayuri's superhuman drug, the character could have ~42c reaction speed, still not enough but just saying



That's through a limited dosage- enough of the stuff should eventually get there.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Dec 13, 2017)

Masterblack06 said:


> Dont they need to actually peek out to attack from those dimensions though?



They need. With speed equal shouldn't be a problem though .



reyatsuguy said:


> To adress an earlier post of someone....
> Actually, poison ignores durability. Mainly, the types of poison that harms the victim by disturbing their biochemical processes. We just had a meta thread disucssing this.
> The  poisons that aren't part of this category like gas or liquefied poisons that corrode or melt shit. Those poisons have to go through durability.
> So yes, poison is a solution for this match-up



Thanks for sharing info. Is that a chemistry joke?


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## Masterblack06 (Dec 13, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Huh ??


poison, solution, Chemisty, Get it?


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 13, 2017)

Masterblack06 said:


> poison, solution, Chemisty, Get it?


Oh... yeah, no , that was totally unnintentional.


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## Masterblack06 (Dec 13, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Oh... yeah, no , that was totally unnintentional.


It was a good one though


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## Gunstarvillain (Dec 13, 2017)

Masterblack06 said:


> Dont they need to actually peek out to attack from those dimensions though?


No not with kakashi obito lille brook perona senor pink versions working in tandem. 
Isn't even needed when xaxis can let you attack and still be intangible simultaneously.


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## Masterblack06 (Dec 13, 2017)

So would early game tournament be their best chance to do anything at all. they'd be surrounded by allies so they shouldnt get immediately fucked.


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## Gunstarvillain (Dec 13, 2017)

Masterblack06 said:


> So would early game tournament be their best chance to do anything at all. they'd be surrounded by allies so they shouldnt get immediately fucked.


I would say anything not 1 on 1 makes it more in favor of the hax orgy especially if speed is equal.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Dec 13, 2017)

Oh wait, I thought it was the HST alone, if they are part of team 7 this doesn't makes any sense.

The only thing stopping U7 from soloing the tournament is Jiren and you just gave them the participant that has the more diverse skillset, the only thing they lacked.

They don't even need speed equal to win this


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 13, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Oh wait, I thought it was the HST alone, if they are part of team 7 this doesn't makes any sense.
> 
> The only thing stopping U7 from soloing the tournament is Jiren and you just gave them the participant that has the more diverse skillset, the only thing they lacked.
> 
> They don't even need speed equal to win this



Tell me: Is the HST composite immune to _Time-Skip _and Jiren?


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Dec 13, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Tell me: Is the HST composite immune to _Time-Skip _and Jiren?



Since they aren't going to target the HST immediately there's not much Jiren or Hit can do.


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 13, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Since they aren't going to target the HST immediately there's not much Jiren or Hit can do.



What's the point of having the Composite in the tournament, if you just use them to replace Tien?  Replacing with Frieza would just guarantee a loss.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Dec 14, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> What's the point of having the Composite in the tournament, if you just use them to replace Tien? Replacing with Frieza would just guarantee a loss.



Nah

HST has a good chance winning alone,teaming up with just Goku or Vegeta, nobody else, means a certain 100% chance of winning 

Speed equal alone is also an easy win.


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## Cain1234 (Dec 14, 2017)

What would this character look like.

Is it going to be a shape of pure large white energy ball or a tiny white dot that can turn into any shape it wants.

Reactions: Creative 1


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## OrangePeel (Dec 14, 2017)

Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha said:


> That's through a limited dosage- enough of the stuff should eventually get there.


well maybe, maybe not. I just thought it might be useful in a future composite fight.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Dec 14, 2017)

People arguing that non-speed equal they would win: nope, it's impossible. It's not like a turtle facing a cheetah. It's like a MFTL blue whale charging into defenceless krill. Just forget it. Speed unequal, whatever might be the first action of HST composite, the guy that is billions of times faster will just dodge. Not that HST composite is getting the first move. If you think HST composite has a shot with speed unequal, I'm sorry but you don't understand the differential in speed.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Dec 14, 2017)

There's 80 characters in the ring, with his own team of blue level characters to shield the HST.

And it only needs a second to use his 100+ skills to make itself untouchable and to start picking everyone out, since the AoE of the attacks works well with the size of the ring and there's even abilities that only need the opponents to stay still for a while, something they do a lot.


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## Gunstarvillain (Dec 14, 2017)

Ignorance is bliss lol


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## Source of Hate (Dec 14, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> The "why" being what makes the "Almighty" a form of causality manipulation - once he changes the future to a specific one, he can set it in stone, and make that the only possibility.


Except Yhwach says that everyone can "change" the future by "jumping from one grain of sand to the next." But Yhwach can _transform_ the future. The whole point about the "dream" Haschwalth inserted is that it was the one future that Yhwach did not transform, and it came true.



> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That it's actually Aizen?



> Back then, Yhwach's power was described as "knowing any power", and making those powers unable to hurt or kill him.  Ever consider it was that part of the "Almighty" that negated Ichimonji?


And that all that he sees is powerless against him. I assumed that the ability to rewrite the future was what made it so. My fault. Though I want to know how power, as in pure offensive power, is any different. After all, even one of the Sternritter shrifts is just plain Power.



> Also, that is a rather loaded statement from you, claiming it is "impossible" for someone as strong as Yhwach to break Tensa Zangetsu, when the fact he was able to do so with "The Almighty" points towards the opposite - that it was possible, and that


On the contrary, specially considering that you believe that superior stats can trump the Almighty by making it "lolthere's no possible future where he survives or he wins." Ichigo's Bankai is vastly stronger than Yhwach. Yhwach says himself that he fears it so that he broke it through Almighty hax. In fact, Ichigo's Bankai is so strong that even after having his Hollow and Quincy powers removed, it was still able to literally one-shot Yhwach with a normal Getsuga. And Yhwach still broke the stronger version by rewriting the future.



> Yhwach was able to bring that future about in the present.


That would mean that he can bring about the timeskip of a certain action.



> You want "The Almighty" to be this nonsense worthy of Suggs that has "no limits",


Not true. The Almighty has shown limits, and outside of Bleach it has even more limits. You just want to make new ones to accomodate pure stats above it. I don't blame you though, it's this corroding VS forum mindset.



> when it is entirely possible to infer what limits the power has:
> 
> 
> 1. It can only "alter the future" one event at a time.  The advantage is that he can pick and choose which "possibilities" to alter.


That is something that would have to be stated as it is impossible to know through visuals.



> 2. He cannot just "alter the future" to injure or kill someone instantly; he needs to physically attack someone to injure them (or lay a trap to do so), and he can only "alter the future" to directly injure someone if one of his previous strikes missed.


I still don't get where you get from that something sets apart people from objects. It just seems arbitrary: making up faults due to lack of examples. It's like saying that TOAA can't turn pudding into doughnuts because it would be NLF to assume so because it wasn't shown so a limit must be inferred.



> 3. "The Almighty" has always been about seeing all possible futures.  Trying to claim that the "Almighty" creates "impossible futures" is contradictory to its own function.


Yhwach being able to rewrite a future or futures by definition means creating a new one. And creating a new one by definition means making an impossibility possible, since he sees all possible futures.



> 4. "The Almighty's" extent to "alter the future" is limited by Yhwach's own power at any given moment, as the "possibilities" he sees are tied to what he himself is capable of.


Again, Ichigo's Bankai.



> Otherwise, he would have been able to kill Yamamoto and Ichibei both a thousand years ago, rather than be sealed for a thousand years, so he could try again when he was more powerful.


What happened is completely unknown so it's not fair to use it as an argument. For all we know, Almighty could have been different.



> In other words: If he can break someone's Bankai, it means it is possible for him to do so;


If he has to rewrite a future to do so, it means it was impossible.



> if he can "alter the future" where he dies, that implies a possibility where he was able to survive the attack that kills him.


If he can revive _after_ dying, it means he did not survive and rewrote himself back to life. We _did_ see him die and revive.



> In other words, you are calling for "no limits fallacy", with the way you have been describing "The Almighty".


It's not even a real fallacy. It's so loose and unfounded that anyone can turn it around by saying that arguing for a strong character having resistance to a type of ability that he has not shown to have is a no limits fallacy. Like Gremmy not being able to turn Goku's bones into cookies for example. As if stats had anything to do with it. It's arbitrary.



> Yes, it is possible to speed-blitz a user of the "Almighty", because there are guys in the Tournament who are just that much faster than him.  As I'll remind you, the last time I checked, no one in the HST is faster than light, characters which the Tournament is filled with.


How can you blitz someone who knows all futures at the instant of the fight and can activate abilities by thought?



> Furthermore, the gap in overall power is too vast for the HST composite to overcome.  Perhaps only the absolute weakest fighters in the Tournament would be susceptible to the Composite's abilities, but that is it.  Anyone else with a respectable amount of power, and able to hold their own in the Tournament, would be able to walk all over the HST Composite, due to the power-gap.


See?


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 14, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> Except Yhwach says that everyone can "change" the future by "jumping from one grain of sand to the next." But Yhwach can _transform_ the future. The whole point about the "dream" Haschwalth inserted is that it was the one future that Yhwach did not transform, and it came true.
> 
> That it's actually Aizen?
> 
> ...


Fuck off, shitsatin. You just insulted this whole forum a week ago or so and now you're back sucking Yhwach's cock again ? Where do you get the nerve ?


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## Mr. Black Leg (Dec 14, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> How can you blitz someone who knows all futures at the instant of the fight and can activate abilities by thought?



I can tell you exactly where someone's going to shoot a bullet and exactly at which second. I'd love to see you try to dodge. DBS's speed is literally billions of times faster than Ywhach's thought process. The time it takes the guy to see the future is the time it takes DBS to move millions of light years. 

Well, just stop arguing with Source of Hate and Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha.



lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> There's 80 characters in the ring, with his own team of blue level characters to shield the HST.
> 
> And it only needs a second to use his 100+ skills to make itself untouchable and to start picking everyone out, since the AoE of the attacks works well with the size of the ring and there's even abilities that only need the opponents to stay still for a while, something they do a lot.



PIS and CIS are always turned off for the fights in OBD. You know that? Meaning, the second it starts, the HST composite will be out of the ring not knowing what happened. And, good that it takes one second to HST composite do that. It takes one picosecond to HST get blitzed from hell and back. Also, even if HST makes itself intangible there's no way to tag something going billions of times faster than you. There's just no way. You can't literally even see who you are fighting, the best tactic is hiding on a corner and cry because there are absolute monsters duking it out. You just can't compete with the speed, seriously. Forget this idiotic idea. It's an unholy stomp with speed unequal. Even if it manages to make itself invisible and intangible  (It won't) it will be too slow to even see it's own comrades.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Dec 14, 2017)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> PIS and CIS are always turned off for the fights in OBD. You know that? Meaning, the second it starts, the HST composite will be out of the ring not knowing what happened. And, good that it takes one second to HST composite do that. It takes one picosecond to HST get blitzed from hell and back. Also, even if HST makes itself intangible there's no way to tag something going billions of times faster than you. There's just no way. You can't literally even see who you are fighting, the best tactic is hiding on a corner and cry because there are absolute monsters duking it out. You just can't compete with the speed, seriously. Forget this idiotic idea. It's an unholy stomp with speed unequal. Even if it manages to make itself invisible and intangible (It won't) it will be too slow to even see it's own comrades.



It's not an stomp because he has another 4 blue level companions to cover him, it's going to be a repeat of the start of the tournament where Gohan, Piccolo and the other expended several minutes without fighting anyone 

Doesn't really matters how much faster they are as long as they are restricted to the ring and as long as they just stay still for an instant.


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## Gunstarvillain (Dec 14, 2017)

Hst also has power stealing, damage negation

Has the pernida kit control and become battleground, homing light arrow spam, evolution clone rebirth impregnation

Sayzel Granz's gabriel and the black arrancar who used amor released at the same time means your body is paralyzed and controlled long enough to be ate up, or composulsitory, or hit with love beam or get sent to boxland or cookies or essentially make clones of itself which are easily just as hax



Side note 
Composite hst being is like a cosmic marvel golden age god due to tremendous amount of hax. Most of the scary hax is passive and nobody is going to appreciate comp hst being until the vs isn't dragonball rns


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## Mr. Black Leg (Dec 14, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> It's not an stomp because he has another 4 blue level companions to cover him, it's going to be a repeat of the start of the tournament where Gohan, Piccolo and the other expended several minutes without fighting anyone


Those who will be also with their hands full .



Gunstarvillain said:


> power stealing, damage negation



Power stealing from who? Damage Negation from Uryuu?


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## Solar (Dec 14, 2017)

143 posts ....


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 14, 2017)

Whyre you arguing that The Almighty cant affect people? We saw it make Ichibei explode

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Atem (Dec 14, 2017)

Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha said:


> That's through a limited dosage- enough of the stuff should eventually get there.



Doesn't actually apply to their reactions, or reflexes. He specifically used it as a form of torture because the subjects could not move as fast as they can process things. So basically, it only applies to processing and nothing else.

In other words they will spend thousands of years feeling their own deaths before finally dying.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Atem (Dec 14, 2017)

At the hands of Yamcha no less.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## OrangePeel (Dec 14, 2017)

Soma Cruz said:


> Doesn't actually apply to their reactions, or reflexes. He specifically used it as a form of torture because the subjects could not move as fast as they can process things. So basically, it only applies to processing and nothing else.
> 
> In other words they will spend thousands of years feeling their own deaths before finally dying.


They may be able to use some hax which doesn't require movement, but just thought, since they can think and process things at that speed but their movement is limited to w.e speed they're calc'ed to. Also dbz characters are much faster anyway, so it makes no difference.


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## Source of Hate (Dec 14, 2017)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> I can tell you exactly where someone's going to shoot a bullet and exactly at which second. I'd love to see you try to dodge.


This isn't even an analogy



> DBS's speed is literally billions of times faster than Ywhach's thought process. The time it takes the guy to see the future is the time it takes DBS to move millions of light years.
> 
> Well, just stop arguing with Source of Hate and Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha.


The amount of asspull in this post. I'll do the same with you


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## Mr. Black Leg (Dec 14, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> The amount of asspull in this post.


 Yeah because HST is > billions c. Right? Oh yeah, nope. HST is at best relativistic or marginally FTL while DBS is billions of times faster than light. The amount of speed needed to blitz from a 20 meters distance is 20x times as fast. Any character with a name in DBS beats that by a fairly huge margin.



Source of Hate said:


> I'll do the same with you



Please do, your stupidity knows no bounds and it is painful to read.  You should just stop posting at all, you'd be doing this whole forum a favor.


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 14, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> And it only needs a second to use his 100+ skills to make itself untouchable and to start picking everyone out, since the AoE of the attacks works well with the size of the ring and there's even abilities that only need the opponents to stay still for a while, *something they do a lot*.



So do Bleach characters, _on top of explaining all their abilities.  
_
Also, what's stopping the Composite from going like Goku and heading straight for _the one character guaranteed to KO him (_Jiren)?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Hazard (Dec 14, 2017)

nyugimon said:


> oh. i thought they'd do ok against some of the weaker folk.
> 
> -perfect hypnosis
> -reality warping (courtesy of gremmy)
> ...


ki can deal with any of those.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 14, 2017)

No it can't . Ki isn't an automatic defense against all the cateogries of haxx ever. That's just  Cain lvl wankery.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Blade (Dec 14, 2017)

terrible fanfic thread/10

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Hazard (Dec 14, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> No it can't . Ki isn't an automatic defense against all the cateogries of haxx ever. That's just  Cain lvl wankery.


if you directly use hax on some1 with higher ki let alone billions of times more ki than yes.
was even said by whis in the super manga and Jiren literaly transcended time with ki alone.
so wether you go with manga or anime its the same.


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 14, 2017)

Hazard said:


> if you directly use hax on some1 with higher ki let alone billions of times more ki than yes.
> was even said by whis in the super manga and Jiren literaly transcended time with ki alone.
> so wether you go with manga or anime its the same.


No, that's not how any of this works, in-verse or in an OBD setting.
I'm not gonna waste my time explaining the rules we have here in depth, i'm just gonna point out one important aspect.
Haxx is assumed to work on someone *unless *he or she has shown  resistance to that type of haxx. That's basic shit . Even if what you said about DB ' ki works in general was true, it's particularities don't apply in the OBD.


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## Hazard (Dec 14, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> No, that's not how any of this works, in-verse or in an OBD setting.
> I'm not gonna waste my time explaining the rules we have here in depth, i'm just gonna point out one important aspect.
> Haxx is assumed to work on someone *unless *he or she has shown  resistance to that type of haxx. That's basic shit . Even if what you said about DB ' ki works in general was true, it's particularities don't apply in the OBD.


oh , ok.
didnt know that.
so if lets say the composite hst character trys to turn gohan into a chicken with reality warping would it work even if he is way weaker?


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 14, 2017)

Hazard said:


> oh , ok.
> didnt know that.
> so if lets say the composite hst character trys to turn gohan into a chicken with reality warping would it work even if he is way weaker?


Unless Gohan or his ki displayed any kind of resistance or shileding capability from such an ability , yes. Now, let's assume for the sake of future arguments that he has and he doesn't get turned into a chiken, that doesn't automatically shiled him from another category of haxx like mind-fuck or soul fuck since naturally those are completely different abbilities with heir own mechanics.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Mr. Black Leg (Dec 14, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> So do Bleach characters, _on top of explaining all their abilities.
> _
> Also, what's stopping the Composite from going like Goku and heading straight for _the one character guaranteed to KO him (_Jiren)?



Exactly. It's better we leave out PIS and CIS out as much as we can, as for the argument that the HST Composite will have other people having his back, this might've been true if they were not with their hands full with their own adversaries. 

It is a huge disadvantage to have a member of your team that can't keep up with the rest, HST Composite would die very fast.

Dunno if you ever played RPG nor if you had a group or a party in said RPG with everyone in high level and one of your party is like, level 2. That guy will be more of a hindrance  (Dying, needing respawn, potions to cure health, etc) while all other are fighting. So even if HST Composite lasts for 1 whole second it will be more of a hindrance rather than help.


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## Source of Hate (Dec 14, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> No it can't . Ki isn't an automatic defense against all the cateogries of haxx ever. That's just  Cain lvl wankery.


Wtf man, you were the first to scream "NLF" at me when hax arguments were presented against a stronger character. What, you were trolling me?


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## Source of Hate (Dec 14, 2017)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> You should just stop posting at all, you'd be doing this whole forum a favor.


Lmao I'd be doing _me_ a favor


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 14, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> Wtf man, you were the first to scream "NLF" at me when hax arguments were presented against a stronger character. What, you were trolling me?


Sasuga reading comprehension and logic from you.
Now, fuck off and go to a forum that is "worthy" of your tastes and "superior intelect "

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha (Dec 14, 2017)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> I can tell you exactly where someone's going to shoot a bullet and exactly at which second. I'd love to see you try to dodge. DBS's speed is literally billions of times faster than Ywhach's thought process. The time it takes the guy to see the future is the time it takes DBS to move millions of light years.
> 
> Well, just stop arguing with Source of Hate and Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha.
> 
> ...



Characters  not blitzing has nothing to do with CIS or PIS. It has to do with the fact that nobody wants to engage unknowns,  moral character, or a personal preference to watching things play out.

Make all the characters bloodlusted- and I'll concede that HST composite gets knocked out of bounds before a single photon reaches the composite characters cornea.

But, if we assume that everyone is in character - it's not happening.

Being unable to tag opponents is a good point- but if an attack has an AOE that covers the whole arena, it doesn't matter if it lands or not.


I'll agree not to argue with you  on this topic anymore - since I think both positions have already been fully explained.

I'll sum up my position:
1) mostly everyone in the TOP is a noble fighter that lets others fight on their own terms.

Evidence: the fact that most fights are 1v1.

2) mostly everyone in the TOP is unwilling to knock out  others in sneak attacks  ( presumably because they don't want to genocide a whole universe or attack unknown variables)

Evidence: Pride troupers condemning android 17 attacking during a charge up attack- and the fact that nobody else went for the opportunity.

Also, Jiren letting Goku charge the spirit bomb. It's not CIS or PIS if it's a consistent character trait.

conclusion A : based on the personalities of those in the tournament- I think it's more likely that HST composite will survive long enough to enable it's defensive abilties- than it not being able too.

3) once it's intangible, invisible, regenerative,  reality warping- defensive abilties are in place- it is effectively unbeatable in the setting based on current feats.

Essentially, if defensive abilties are activated- the worst outcome is survival of the tournament- but being killed by Zeno for having less members. Of course- abilties like rinne tensei could bring back members from the stands- but whether or not Zeno allows it is .

Evidence: the effectiveness of HST composite defensive abilties has been discussed in this thread- I am still unsure about the consensus, however , I do think that most consider "vanishing point, Izanagi, X-axis, miracle" to be a winning combination.

4) offensive contribution is probably the most controversial topic in this debate besides speed. I would argue that regardless of speed or DC- a hax ability of sufficient Area of effect would take out most opponents.

Evidence: based on how hax works- it should be applicable regardless of power- Whethor or not a character has resistance is probably better discussed in the meta, but as far as I know - Askins death dealing  ( which can include quite a large AOE, perhaps the whole arena, Pernindas compuslory, Mayuris poison ( when amped by bankai) are hax enough and have the AOE needed to get a win.


Conclusion B: assuming conclusion A is true- then At worst HST composite gets killed by Zeno-  at best it's attacks have some variety of success taking out at least a few members of the Opposition- potentially some of the strongest

Edit: I started off this post with statements  that I felt were too accusatory to be productive- which is why after a rereading I have edited the first two paragraphs out.

Can anyone clarify the exact way in which composite character personality works? 

Is the character going to sit there and monologue( Aizen), befriend (Naruto) and not use its abilties ( juha ) - 

Or is it only the positive traits? 

Cause if it's the latter- it's going to be a character completly incapable of using anything more than 2 of its thousands of abilties.


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 14, 2017)

Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha said:


> Conclusion B: assuming conclusion A is true- then At worst HST composite gets killed by *Zeno*- at best it's attacks have some variety of success taking out at least a few members of the Opposition- potentially some of the strongest



Zen-Oh.  One of your conclusions is that it would take _*Zen-Oh*_ to get rid of an HST composite.

An HST composite _*barely ekes past Planet-Level, *_so where the hell do you get the idea it'd take a character _who can erase a Multiverse_ to get rid of him?

Need I remind people that, more often than not,  with Bleach in particular, there have always been situations where abilities have been overpowered _just by being that much stronger than the person with said abilities.  _In other words, most Bleach abilities would be no-sold or negated through most of the TOP fighters being that much stronger than the composite.



Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha said:


> Essentially, if defensive abilties are activated- the worst outcome is survival of the tournament- but being killed by Zeno for having less members. Of course- abilties like rinne tensei could bring back members from the stands- but whether or not Zeno allows it is





Rinne Tensei bring back members from the stands?  _This is a Tournament, where people who are ringed out are still alive!  Where do you get off claiming nonsense like that! _


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 14, 2017)

Rinne Tensei also kills it's user so the composite monstrosity would just shoot itself in the leg. If you want to go with that logic Edo might be more usefull.


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 14, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Rinne Tensei also kills it's user so the composite monstrosity would just shoot itself in the leg. If you want to go with that logic Edo might be more usefull.



Requires a living sacrifice, and a dead individual's soul whose DNA must be used for the process.  Either way, death is against the rules of the Tournament.


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## Volt manta (Dec 14, 2017)

Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha said:


> The effectiveness of HST composite defensive abilties has been discussed in this thread- I am still unsure about the consensus, however , I do think that most consider "vanishing point, Izanagi, X-axis, miracle" to be a winning combination.


The most efficient strat to win would likely be Vanishing point->intangibility->Shadow Clone jutsu->teleportation around the field->Sakanade->Bell Bug. KS whoever you feel is still a threat and Izanagi to make sure you don't get knocked out by a random energy wave breaking the stage. Though honestly Intangibility+Izanagi+insert your own mind fuck would basically guarantee Composite's win and is a whole lot simpler, imo.

Also hope there aren't people still arguing for speed unequal. Bloodlust i'd give a small chance to just on account of the tournament's sheer size(and the smallest chance that he won't get fucked over by shockwaves, lucky energy exchanges, blast pressure, etc), but with speed unequal, Composite-kun will become a literal statue once even the bottom tier level fighters start to get going. Goku and crew could wait around to defend him, but as we saw at the beginning of the ToP, team U7's top three fighters don't play by those rules. At best, you'd get maybe Krillin and 18 standing guard around him, which... Good luck with that.
Conclusion's reached so far:
Speed equal, in character: almost guaranteed win
Speed equal, bloodlusted: somewhat likely to win. Maybe 50/50
Speed equal, 1v1 in character vs ToP composite (given Jiren's personality) : highly likely to win
Speed equal, 1v1 bloodlusted: 50/50

Speed unequal, bloodlusted:
Everybody f*cks off in a giant dogpile. Composite either gets knocked out in the ensuing blast waves, ripped into pieces. Barring that, a random enemy just carries them off the stage at their nearest convenience.
Speed unequal, in character:
Goku, Vegeta, Freiza, and 17 all f*ck off at the beginning of the match and leave Composite to the remainder of the other fighters, of whom I honestly doubt are sticking around risking their necks to defend someone who may as well be Hercule in all of this. Regardless, even if they do, all it will take is one lucky blast wave or energy attack to either reduce composite to basic atoms or send him careening off the stage and there's just _so_ many reasons this doesn't work. Not even going to talk about 1v1...


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## Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha (Dec 14, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Rinne Tensei also kills it's user so the composite monstrosity would just shoot itself in the leg. If you want to go with that logic Edo might be more usefull.



Rinne tensei is most useful at the end of the tournament to boost members. 

Dieing wouldn't mean much- since the winners get a wish.


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 14, 2017)

Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha said:


> Rinne tensei is most useful at the end of the tournament to boost members.



Except _killing someone is against the rules of the tournament.  _Anyone who is ringed out is still alive, not "dead", so a technique like Rinne Tensei is completely pointless.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Dec 14, 2017)

Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha said:


> Characters  not blitzing has nothing to do with CIS or PIS. It has to do with the fact that nobody wants to engage unknowns,  moral character, or a personal preference to watching things play out.
> 
> Make all the characters bloodlusted- and I'll concede that HST composite gets knocked out of bounds before a single photon reaches the composite characters cornea.
> 
> ...



You do make your best to forget that they are fighting people that are easily in a level so big that the composite team blast with all of their powers put together wouldn't even dent them, that these people are fighting for their whole universes and most importantly that HST Composite ki level would be not distinguishable from the ki level of an ant and picking apart the easiest meal is not something cheap or bad, it's actually normal to go to the weaker first, right ? Your whole point is that they wouldn't do it because lolpersonality, but OBD rules simple and clear that if character A has the power and ability to kill and end the fight as soon as is possible, character A WILL DO JUST THAT. Why? Because we aren't evaluating plot, if we were evaluating that, then why the hell would IDK, Captain America fight All Might? They would both be respectful for each other and hold each other in high regard . We are evaluating fight here, and power. So if they can, they will. Stop the whole "but mah character personality ". And even then, you're wrong, they'd go for the weakest and fast because it's their whole universe in stake.


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## Claudio Swiss (Dec 14, 2017)

Find it funny it takes the entire HST fused together and speed equal to have them possibly do shit to the db verse


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## Mr. Black Leg (Dec 14, 2017)

Claudio Swiss said:


> Find it funny it takes the entire HST fused together and speed equal to have them possibly do shit to the db verse



Of fucking course. But it takes One Piece alone to solo quality through DB.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Disagree 1


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## Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha (Dec 14, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Zen-Oh.  One of your conclusions is that it would take _*Zen-Oh*_ to get rid of an HST composite.
> 
> An HST composite _*barely ekes past Planet-Level, *_so where the hell do you get the idea it'd take a character _who can erase a Multiverse_ to get rid of him?
> 
> ...



All I said was that if HST composite were to survive, if he doesn't have enough partners- the king of everything would kill him. That  IS a theoretically possible outcome. 

It should be clear, that just because Zenoo can kill it, doesn't mean a lower tier cannot. I even conceded that if the composite character doesn't get off its defenses- it dies immediately. 

yes, most  attacks in bleach don't work on higher tier characters. However, some do. It's the attacks that ignore tier difference that are relevant here. 

- your totally right about rinne tensei. For some bizzare reason I thought everyone in the stands had halo's, and were dead.


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## Claudio Swiss (Dec 14, 2017)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Of fucking course. But it takes *One Piece* alone to solo quality through DB.


meh part 1 OP one sure 
Part 2 meh not exactly feeling it 
But hey let's not turn this shit into some quality battle cause this is not what this threads about


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 14, 2017)

Speed equal is an easy win for the Composite. The amount of shit it can pull off by using powers in conjunction would fuck ToP six ways to sunday, no matter the scenario or circumstance, speed equal is a win for them


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## Volt manta (Dec 14, 2017)

Claudio Swiss said:


> Find it funny it takes the entire HST fused together and speed equal to have them possibly do shit to the db verse


Actually not the entire HST; somewhere in the realm of five to ten characters. Possibly even composite Bleachverse alone could take this under a speed equal scenario. Provided they have enough clones, that is.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Dec 14, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> So do Bleach characters, _on top of explaining all their abilities.
> _
> Also, what's stopping the Composite from going like Goku and heading straight for _the one character guaranteed to KO him (_Jiren



Not a problem because intangibility+wings+presense erasure and the ability to see the future.

Also this isn't Goku, this would be Urahara/Shikamaru comanding a body with all kinds of hax


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## Toaa (Dec 14, 2017)

so they can somehow hurt jiren?


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## Hazard (Dec 14, 2017)

isnt it a restriction for db characters if we go by the rule that if character A never showed resistence to this hax he can be affected when we know he actualy can resist it?
i mean sure to resist some hax , the ki user and hax user‘s power gap needs to be even bigger but still.
what im trying to say is , overall hax resistence is part of ki.


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## OrangePeel (Dec 14, 2017)

If they show resistance to a certain type of hax, then they have resistance to that category of hax (well it also depends on the scale of the hax). They don't suddenly get resistance to every other form of hax,


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## Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha (Dec 14, 2017)

Hazard said:


> isnt it a restriction for db characters if we go by the rule that if character A never showed resistence to this hax he can be affected when we know he actualy can resist it?
> i mean sure to resist some hax , the ki user and hax user‘s power gap needs to be even bigger but still.
> what im trying to say is , overall hax resistence is part of ki.



Ki difference only works sometimes. Mafuba works even across massive differences in power. 

resistance to hax is largly plot related- I don't see how we could feasibly come up with a reliable system in order to judge ki's abilty to resist specific hax.


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## Hazard (Dec 14, 2017)

OrangePeel said:


> If they show resistance to a certain type of hax, then they have resistance to that category of hax (well it also depends on the scale of the hax). They don't suddenly get resistance to every other form of hax,


what hax would a db character not resist no matter the power diffrence ?
lets say muten roshi uses that said hax on zeno.


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## Hazard (Dec 14, 2017)

Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha said:


> Ki difference only works sometimes. Mafuba works even across massive differences in power.
> 
> resistance to hax is largly plot related- I don't see how we could feasibly come up with a reliable system in order to judge ki's abilty to resist specific hax.


pretty sure mafuba can be countered.
and even easier if the opponent knows it.
also its about stamina not ki thats why they are allways out of breath when gettin hit.


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## OrangePeel (Dec 14, 2017)

Hazard said:


> what hax would a db character not resist no matter the power diffrence ?
> lets say muten roshi uses that said hax on zeno.


Getting their minds turned to mush via genjutsu, is one. Unless db has resistance to potent mind control.


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## Roharu (Dec 14, 2017)

OrangePeel said:


> Getting their minds turned to mush via genjutsu, is one. Unless db has resistance to potent mind control.



Strongest mind-control they had faced is with Babidi. While powerful, this mind control was never as explored as a genjutsu. Still, controlling star-level characters is a very nice feat, and if we see Dabura's behavior around Babidi then we know the mind control seems more powerful thank any genjutsu, in fact, it is similar to Lelouch's Geass.


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## Hazard (Dec 14, 2017)

OrangePeel said:


> Getting their minds turned to mush via genjutsu, is one. Unless db has resistance to potent mind control.


last time i checked , ki is mental , spiritual and physical.
even pre namek , gohan and krillin had whole fights against each other via mind only.
babidi couldnt do shit if vegeta wanted with his magic that can do all sorts of things including mind control and making ppls heads explode from the other side of the planet.


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## Hazard (Dec 14, 2017)

also talking about potent mind control , thats why i said some hax needs more ki to counter.
not even in a million years genjutsu is gonna work on some1 like grand priest( i wont say zeno becouse tbh idk how he works) unless its from some1 close to him in power.


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## OrangePeel (Dec 14, 2017)

Hazard said:


> last time i checked , ki is mental , spiritual and physical.
> even pre namek , gohan and krillin had whole fights against each other via mind only.
> babidi couldnt do shit if vegeta wanted with his magic that can do all sorts of things including mind control and making ppls heads explode from the other side of the planet.


Like I said, we need actual feats of resistance. This babidi dude's mind hax seems pale in comparison to top-tier genjutsu (and was it resisted?), so none would be able to resist it.


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## Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha (Dec 14, 2017)

OrangePeel said:


> Like I said, we need actual feats of resistance. This babidi dude's mind hax seems pale in comparison to top-tier genjutsu (and was it resisted?), so none would be able to resist it.



Babadi could telepathically connect the minds of every earthling. 

Vegeta shits on babidis Mind control. 

However, babidis mind control is
Magic based- 

So I don't know if it scales to his telepathy powers


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## Hazard (Dec 14, 2017)

OrangePeel said:


> Like I said, we need actual feats of resistance. This babidi dude's mind hax seems pale in comparison to top-tier genjutsu (and was it resisted?), so none would be able to resist it.


pretty sure controlling ppl who can resist reality warping(shenron) and are planet-star level is way more impressive than anything gen-jutsu ever done.


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 14, 2017)

Hazard said:


> pretty sure controlling ppl who can resist reality warping


Resisting reality warping has nothing to do with mind-fuck, i just told you that. It doesn;t matter if you can resist Multiversal reality warping as long as you don't have feats against mind-fuck.


Hazard said:


> and are planet-star level is way more impressive than anything gen-jutsu ever done


No. Same logic as above applies.


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## Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha (Dec 14, 2017)

Hazard said:


> pretty sure controlling ppl who can resist reality warping(shenron) and are planet-star level is way more impressive than anything gen-jutsu ever done.



That sounds like bogus.

Shenron's reality warping doesn't work on things that " are beyond the abilties of his creator"-

It has nothing to do with inherent reality warping resistance.

Being stronger than dende or guru is hardly relevant anyway. 

Also, why would being star level make. Mind control more impressive?

Mind control has to do with mental reistance- physical ability is irrelevant.


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## Hazard (Dec 14, 2017)

ki is an allround defence mechanism.
some1 being star level matters becouse this amount of ki can be used to not only bust shit.
ki can be used to enhance literaly everything including mind.


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 14, 2017)

Hazard said:


> ki is an allround defence mechanism.
> some1 being star level matters becouse this amount of ki can be used to not only bust shit.
> ki can be used to enhance literaly everything including mind.


Tell that to Goku when he succumbed to his heart virus . Where was his ki then ?
That's what haxx does .


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## Hazard (Dec 14, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Tell that to Goku when he succumbed to his heart virus . Where was his ki then ?
> That's what haxx does .


this literaly doesnt mean shit , becouse you dont know how bad that virus was.
i mean the fact that he couldnt do shit about it and not even shenron when he can bring back millions of ppl back from the death tells you how powerfull that virus is.


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 14, 2017)

Hazard said:


> this literaly doesnt mean shit , becouse you dont know how bad that virus was.
> i mean the fact that he couldnt do shit about it and not even shenron when he can bring back millions of ppl back from the death tells you how powerfull that virus is.


This further proves my point. You don't equate haxx with someone's phisicall capabilities or resistances.
The viurs potency is irrelevant. It only proves that even with a immunitary sistem many times stronger than normal human  and with ki that in your words " amplifies every single stat of someone", it still worked. 
Don't make it sound like a something that it isn't. It was a fucking heart virus.


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## OrangePeel (Dec 14, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> This further proves my point. You don't equate haxx with someone's phisicall capabilities or resistances.
> The viurs potency is irrelevant. It only proves that even with a immunitary sistem many times stronger than normal human  and with ki that in your words " amplifies every single stat of someone", it still worked.
> Don't make it sound like a something that it isn't. It was a fucking heart virus.


na m8 clearly the virus had a dc above goku's durability.


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## Hazard (Dec 14, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> This further proves my point. You don't equate haxx with someone's phisicall capabilities or resistances.
> The viurs potency is irrelevant. It only proves that even with a immunitary sistem many times stronger than normal human  and with ki that in your words " amplifies every single stat of someone", it still worked.
> Don't make it sound like a something that it isn't. It was a fucking heart virus.


where did i say it wasnt a heart virus?
which is irrelevant , what matters is how potent that virus is and since you dont know that you cant use this as an argument to disprove my point.


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## Hazard (Dec 14, 2017)

goku could eat a house full of senzu beans and it wouldnt do shit against the virus.
lets not pretend its a simple heart virus.


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## Volt manta (Dec 14, 2017)

Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha said:


> Babadi could telepathically connect the minds of every earthling.
> 
> Vegeta shits on babidis Mind control.


To my knowledge, Babidi wasn't actually mind-controlling those people; just speaking to them. Telepathic range vs telepathic force; there is a distinction here.


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## Hazard (Dec 14, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Stop being retarded. Your point was that Ki acts as a fucking defense booster that could protect  against haxx and i brought up the example of the heart virus working even with those theoreticall fucking defences.
> The virus' potency is irrelevant for two reasons:
> 1. Because it worked so it can't constitute a precedent for Goku's resistance against shit like this.
> 2. It's also irrelevant because it there are no other instances of viruses being used on Goku to determine where to draw the line regardin what lvl of virus would work on him and what lvl of virus wouldn't work on him
> ...


i get your point.
what im saying is , the virus was not cureable with things that can bring back ppl from death and the potency of the virus is unknown , so you have to come up with a diffrent scenario where it clearly shows ki level is irrelevant becouse this does not for the simple reason i already said to many times now.
_You dont know how potent the virus is._


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 14, 2017)

Hazard said:


> he virus was not cureable with things that can bring back ppl from death and the potency of the virus is unknown , so you have to come up with a diffrent scenario where it clearly shows ki level is irrelevant becouse this does not for the simple reason i already said to many times now.


You really need to logic more.
1. You said Ki constitutes as a defense for everything.
2. I brought up an example debunking your claim.
3 You reply by saying that doesen't matter because even though what i said was true, the potency of the virus is uknown, thus shifting the entire premise of your argument on something else that had nothing to do with your original premise.
4. Your second argument is not even true. We actually know how potent the virus is: Potent enough to affect a saiyajin.

I'm going to say this one more time. The potency of the virus is irrelevant. It's potency would only be relevnant when used against someone with actuall resistance to this shit . It's potency would be needed in this case in order to gauge if it would work above a character's resistance. Since Goku has no such thing, it is irrelevant.


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## Hazard (Dec 14, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> You really need to logic more.
> 1. You said Ki constitutes as a defense for everything.
> 2. I brought up an example debunking your claim.
> 3 You reply by saying that doesen't matter because even though what i said was true, the potency of the virus is uknown, thus shifting the entire premise of your argument on something else that had nothing to do with your original premise.
> ...


how is it not relevant when this is what decides if some1 is gonna resist it or not
my original point was ki can resist hax , you said but what about the heart virus , i said you cant fuckin tell becouse the fuckin potency of the virus is unknown.
so i cant prove my point and you fuckin cant , too.
becouse we are talking about something we only know what it atacks and its name thats it.
now its your job to give me another example of hax that literaly ignores any amount of ki.


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## OrangePeel (Dec 14, 2017)

Wouldn't jiren be caught by as nodt fear if he stares?


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## Hazard (Dec 14, 2017)

i know exactly what you mean.
goku couldnt resist it and his ki(my argument) couldnt do shit about it.

but the thing to determine if you are right or i am is unknown.
all we know is strong heart virus not even a saiyan can resist nor do senzu beans or shenron work.
its a moot point.


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 14, 2017)

Hazard said:


> but the thing to determine if you are right or i am is unknown.
> all we know is strong heart virus not even a saiyan can resist nor do senzu beans or shenron work.
> its a moot point


If that's all you understood from our "discussion" , i have clearly wasted my time.

My recomandation is  to lurk more  and learn bout rules and how to construct a sound logical argument.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Hazard (Dec 14, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> If that's all you understood from our "discussion" , i have clearly wasted my time.
> 
> My recomandation is  to lurk more  and learn bout rules and how to construct a sound logical argument.


yh, thats what you basicly said.
goku couldnt resist it and that means not all hax can be resisted using ki.
with important information missing it is a moot point.


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 14, 2017)

You're gonna keep acting like a retard huh ?


Hazard said:


> goku couldnt resist it and that means not all hax can be resisted using ki.


We are back to square one when i explained to you that this doesn't matter in the first place since our rules are" In order for someone to have resistance to a category of haxx, said someone needs to have shown resistance to it. So there goes your argument. Even more i brought an in-verse showing showing that ki can't do shit about a heart virus. This has important implication in the OBD because it allows for people who can infect others with viruses a fighting change against Goku even if they are weaker. Why ? Because we know Goku doesn't have resistance to viruses. It's potency being...you guessed it ...irrelevant.

Your entire argument falls flat on its face since it's flawed from the very begining . You keep repeating like a retarded parrot that you don't know the potency of the virus. We fucking KNOW it. It's potent enough to fuck with Goku. That's the only piece of information we need.

The only scenario where your argument works is if the heart virus was only mentioned and not being put into use. Only then , you could have said that we don't know how potent it is  because it was never used on Goku or everyone else.


Hazard said:


> so i cant prove my point and you fuckin cant , too


First part is right, you can't prove your point because the series itself dissaproves your thesis. My point was to dissaprove what you said ( Ki acts as an overall defense) and since the manga did that for me , the only thing i needed to do was to bring what happened in it. Saying that i can't prove my point is retarded .


Hazard said:


> now its your job to give me another example of hax that literaly ignores any amount of ki.


Learn what burden of proof is. You are the one who said ki acts as an overall defense to haxx so it's your fucking job to back up your claims. I don't have to prove shit as the only things i did was debunk your claims with proof  and to re-iterate the rules of the OBD. I don't need any more proof than that.


Hazard said:


> with important information missing it is a moot point.


There is no information missing. You're just being obtuse.
What you are actually arguing for here , but can't seem to comprehend it , is the fact that the virus hasn't shown a limit. That's why you keep incorectly using the " we don't know how potent the virus is argument". We also have a rule for this. Whenever something like this happens we limit  the feat or showing to it's best showing, in this case the virus being powerfull enough to harm Goku. This is done in order to avoid No Limit Fallacies.

You should also read about that .


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## Alita (Dec 14, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Zen-Oh.  One of your conclusions is that it would take _*Zen-Oh*_ to get rid of an HST composite.
> 
> An HST composite _*barely ekes past Planet-Level, *_so where the hell do you get the idea it'd take a character _who can erase a Multiverse_ to get rid of him?
> 
> ...



In the Naruto anime we actually see a sun in one of kaguya's dimensions and we know she can destroy any one of her dimensions with her giant truthseeker so she is star+ in the anime which likely applies to her durability as well since she stated she woulden't die from it. It doesn't mean much here since most folks in Top are universal but the composite character is still higher than just planet level in raw firepower.


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## NightmareCinema (Dec 14, 2017)

>Star level+
>Against a bunch of solar system level and beyond combatants
>Thinking HST's shit-tier hax will be working against ToP top tiers.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Lucy75 (Dec 14, 2017)

If we are being honest here a composite HST character can stomp here with speed equal due to hax and versatility. There are individual HST characters as well that could clear with speed equal here due to hax but a lot of folks don't wanna admit it. Even with speed not equal the composite character will be impossible to harm due to multiple forms of intangibility, the ability to regen from basically nothing, Izanagi, future manipulation, Gerald's miracle, etc. I see it more as a stalemate since the character probably can't tag anyone but will be basically impossible to put down no matter what they do.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 14, 2017)

NightmareCinema said:


> >Star level+
> >Against a bunch of solar system level and beyond combatants
> >Thinking HST's shit-tier hax will be working against ToP top tiers.



Toppo verbally slays the composite fucker

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 2


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## NightmareCinema (Dec 14, 2017)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> Toppo verbally slays the composite fucker


Indeed.

Toppo: (to Composite-koon) You're not even the second fiddle. You're nothing more than one of those minions that the major bad guys always seem to have in abundance.

Also, I see you're back to having a MOONLIGHT-tier set.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 14, 2017)

NightmareCinema said:


> Indeed.
> 
> Toppo: (to Composite-koon) You're not even the second fiddle. You're nothing more than one of those minions that the major bad guys always seem to have in abundance.
> 
> Also, I see you're back to having a MOONLIGHT-tier set.



gotta live up to my rep as a TRUE SUPPORTER of Precure

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Blade (Dec 14, 2017)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> gotta live up to my rep as a TRUE SUPPORTER of Precure



imagine if Skye appears with a Unicorn Hayato set, and starts his MOONLIGHT SENPAI!

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 14, 2017)

Blade said:


> imagine if Skye appears with a Unicorn Hayato set, and starts his MOONLIGHT SENPAI!



but for Skye, it'll be JUST A DREAM


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## NightmareCinema (Dec 14, 2017)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> but for Skye, it'll be JUST A DREAM



Skye's theme song.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## NightmareCinema (Dec 14, 2017)

Lucy75 said:


> If we are being honest here a composite HST character can stomp here with speed equal due to hax and versatility. There are individual HST characters as well that could clear with speed equal here due to hax but a lot of folks don't wanna admit it. Even with speed not equal the composite character will be impossible to harm due to multiple forms of intangibility, the ability to regen from basically nothing, Izanagi, future manipulation, Gerald's miracle, etc. I see it more as a stalemate since the character probably can't tag anyone but will be basically impossible to put down no matter what they do.


>This blatant wanking

Well, I'll have to say. Your delusional beliefs of the composite HST character surviving even with speed unequal is hilarious as well.


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## Volt manta (Dec 14, 2017)

Can't educate everyone, I guess.


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## Blade (Dec 14, 2017)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> but for Skye, it'll be JUST A DREAM

Reactions: Funny 2


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## NightmareCinema (Dec 14, 2017)

Volt manta said:


> Can't educate everyone, I guess.


The word I'd use wouldn't be "educate" since that would mean you guys have something worth teaching to others.

I'd use "bullshit" instead.


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## Solar (Dec 14, 2017)

Hb.uk llshit


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## Claudio Swiss (Dec 15, 2017)

NightmareCinema said:


> >Star level+
> >Against a bunch of solar system level and beyond combatants
> >Thinking HST's shit-tier hax will be working against ToP top tiers.


18 surviving that black hole upgraded alot of fuckers in this tournament


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## Volt manta (Dec 15, 2017)

NightmareCinema said:


> The word I'd use wouldn't be "educate" since that would mean you guys have something worth teaching to others.
> 
> I'd use "bullshit" instead.


This was your claim


NightmareCinema said:


> >Thinking HST's shit-tier hax will be working against ToP top tiers.


You want to argue that DBS top tiers should carry resistance/ immunity to every form of hax in the HST? That's fine. Just prove it.


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## NightmareCinema (Dec 15, 2017)

Volt manta said:


> This was your claim
> 
> You want to argue that DBS top tiers should carry resistance/ immunity to every form of hax in the HST? That's fine. Just prove it.


Considering Blech's hax failed to work against stronger people in-series...



There you go. Have fun being dumb.

Reactions: Funny 3 | Optimistic 1


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## Hazard (Dec 15, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> You're gonna keep acting like a retard huh ?
> 
> We are back to square one when i explained to you that this doesn't matter in the first place since our rules are" In order for someone to have resistance to a category of haxx, said someone needs to have shown resistance to it. So there goes your argument. Even more i brought an in-verse showing showing that ki can't do shit about a heart virus. This has important implication in the OBD because it allows for people who can infect others with viruses a fighting change against Goku even if they are weaker. Why ? Because we know Goku doesn't have resistance to viruses. It's potency being...you guessed it ...irrelevant.
> 
> ...


you showed me a heart virus with unknown potent.
now tell me if this heart virus can kill some1 who can survive potent virus‘.
you cant , which means you dont fuckin know if lets say cell or some1 stronger than the goku who had it could survive it.
what you showed me is that „hax“ can affect them even with the ki diffrence but you didnt tell me how potent that virus/hax was.
so you limit the virus to being powerfull enough to hurt goku , which means any1 stronger than him would survive it and how do they do it? fuckin ki.


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## Piecesis (Dec 15, 2017)

Hazard said:


> you showed me a heart virus with unknown potent.
> now tell me if this heart virus can kill some1 who can survive potent virus‘.
> you cant , which means you dont fuckin know if lets say cell or some1 stronger than the goku who had it could survive it.
> what you showed me is that „hax“ can affect them even with the ki diffrence but you didnt tell me how potent that virus/hax was.
> so you limit the virus to being powerfull enough to hurt goku , which means any1 stronger than him would survive it and how do they do it? fuckin ki.


You really are retarded, aren't you?


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## OrangePeel (Dec 15, 2017)

NightmareCinema said:


> Considering Blech's hax failed to work against stronger people in-series...
> 
> 
> 
> There you go. Have fun being dumb.


when was that? Soi fon? That was just KS fckery as we later see a much stronger aizen still being haxed by gin. Concept was also never brought up again later, infact an even stronger version of aizen gets fcked by a fodder quincy hax. So yh db gets fcked in speed equal. @Regicide  what say you.


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## Toaa (Dec 15, 2017)

....im not even sure lille barro coult hurt jiren...we are arguing about someone who is universe level after all and could break hit,s dimension


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## NightmareCinema (Dec 15, 2017)

OrangePeel said:


> when was that? Soi fon? That was just KS fckery as we later see a much stronger aizen still being haxed by gin. Concept was also never brought up again later, infact an even stronger version of aizen gets fcked by a fodder quincy hax. So yh db gets fcked in speed equal. @Regicide  what say you.


>Gremmy



Also...

>Concept was never brought up again
Just because something's not mentioned again doesn't mean it just disappears. You can try pushing whatever the fuck you want but DB ain't getting fucked. Jiren would just air punch in the Composite's general direction and bye bye it goes.

Debate in facts or don't bother at all.


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## OrangePeel (Dec 15, 2017)

NightmareCinema said:


> >Gremmy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


gremmy? Why are you bringing up random names? I'm talking about nanana whose ability worked on aizen (second only to the likes of ichigo/yhwach), something you claim to be impossible. We know soi fon was under KS when her hax stopped working, most likely aizen gave that explanation to prevent any suspicion about KS, and like I said gin's ability worked fine on aizen, an aizen who even isshin/urahara couldn't sense. Taking things out of context isn't "fact". I never claimed they would win in speed unequal.


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## NightmareCinema (Dec 15, 2017)

OrangePeel said:


> -snip-


If you don't get why I brought that name up, then don't bother replying.


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## Toaa (Dec 15, 2017)

NightmareCinema said:


> >Gremmy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


the aura released by jiren would kill them probably


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## OrangePeel (Dec 15, 2017)

NightmareCinema said:


> If you don't get why I brought that name up, then don't bother replying.


concession accepted.


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## NightmareCinema (Dec 15, 2017)

OrangePeel said:


> concession accepted.


>Concession

Nice try but try to bring up an actual argument next time, dupe-koon.


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## OrangePeel (Dec 15, 2017)

NightmareCinema said:


> >Concession
> 
> Nice try but try to bring up an actual argument next time, dupe-koon.


I did and you were unable to counter any of it, aka conceding.


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## NightmareCinema (Dec 15, 2017)

OrangePeel said:


> I did and you were unable to counter any of it, aka conceding.


>Repeating shit
>Best reply is a "NO U"

I brought up an example of hax not working against someone stronger in Bleach. All you got was "BUT IT WASN'T MENTIONED EVER AGAIN".

Please stop being dumb.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## OrangePeel (Dec 15, 2017)

@Nighty the Mighty  this guy's style of debating (aka ignoring counter points and proceeding to insults) is too high level for me, you seem to know some bleach stuff, what is your take?


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## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 15, 2017)

my take on what exactly?


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## NightmareCinema (Dec 15, 2017)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> my take on what exactly?


On the match-up, shorty.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## OrangePeel (Dec 15, 2017)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> my take on what exactly?


the last part of page 8, basically he was arguing about bleach hax being countered by power level and I brought up some counter points which he just ignored. @NightmareCinema you must feel really insecure that you also have to neg me

Reactions: Funny 2 | Informative 1


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## NightmareCinema (Dec 15, 2017)

Also, what happened to your modship, Nightbringer?


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## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 15, 2017)

NightmareCinema said:


> On the match-up, shorty.



Nothing in the HST can do much of anything in the tournament of power afaik - even combined into one character it's still far too slow which the combined hax can't make up for.



OrangePeel said:


> the last part of page 8, basically he was arguing about bleach hax being countered by power level and I brought up some counter points which he just ignored.



Soi-fon's hax is countered by power level within bleach but this is for all intents and purposes a specific function of reiatsu which isn't equivalent to reiryoku. Basically having a lot of power (reiryoku) in bleach creates a barrier (reiatsu) around you which you can use to passively block things if your barrier is _much_ stronger than the opponents barrier ala Ichigo Vs. Kenpachi and Soi-fon Vs. Aizen.  

The Gremmy situation is a different case where the guy is just a dumbass with his abilities.

tl;dr I wouldn't say that having more power is necessarily an instant counter to bleach hax because equalisation doesn't work that way. For another example of this consider that Haki is an energy system so it can be equalised but that doesn't mean anyone who fights an OP character can actually use the specific forms of Haki themselves. The OBD just makes it so that systems and abilities interact as they should - it doesn't give characters bonus abilties by way of equalisation, otherwise you might as well argue that Goku/Jiren/whoever just reiatsu crushes the HST composite accidentally as soon as the match begins.

that's my hot take


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## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 15, 2017)

NightmareCinema said:


> Also, what happened to your modship, Nightbringer?



I'm on hiatus


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## NightmareCinema (Dec 15, 2017)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> I'm on hiatus


Hopefully not writing another OG/Fujita fanfic while on that hiatus.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## OrangePeel (Dec 15, 2017)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> Nothing in the HST can do much of anything in the tournament of power afaik - even combined into one character it's still far too slow which the combined hax can't make up for.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That barrier explanation makes sense given how soi-fons hax fuctions (with the whole of stabbing part), I didn't think of it like that, would . Though what about a series that has characters resisting hax with just power level (as in an explanation saying being more powerful = resisting hax)? Edit: or would this be like a specific property which can't be equalised?


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Dec 15, 2017)

You obviously can't equalize that.


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## OrangePeel (Dec 15, 2017)

Just wanted to iron things out, as fairy tail came to mind (didn't want it to...), they don't seem to have any specific mechanics like reiatsu barrier, just magic as an energy source.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 15, 2017)

OrangePeel said:


> That barrier explanation makes sense given how soi-fons hax fuctions (with the whole of stabbing part), I didn't think of it like that, would . Though what about a series that has characters resisting hax with just power level (as in an explanation saying being more powerful = resisting hax)?




As far as I'm concerned (in my capacity as a user, since I'm not a moderator right now technically ) character's can do what they've shown to do and that's the end of the story unless there's some obvious mechanical matchup.

Character A - in this character's universe people more powerful than them can resist their hax, if this is a function specific to that universe then that doesn't apply to out of universe characters during an OBD match

Character B - in this character's universe they have an ability that lets them resist the hax of people in their universe by being more powerful than them, despite this being a function specific to their universe they can use this during an OBD match to defend themselves from the hax of out of universe characters to an extent (that extent being a logical extrapolation of their hax resistance relative to other universes).

Additionally; if Character B fights Character A and character B is stronger than A then B's defence will trump A's offence.

I mean you can feel free to disagree with this if you'd like.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 15, 2017)

basically what I'm getting at is that an ability needs to be part of a characters displayed power set and "loses to people stronger than them because [in universe mechanic]" *isn't *part of a power set whereas "beats people weaker than them because [in universe mechanic]" *is *part of a power set.


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## Toaa (Dec 15, 2017)

well jiren did break out of time stop via strenght so what the fuck...


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 15, 2017)

Hazard said:


> you showed me a heart virus with unknown poten


I showed you something that debunked your original claim.


Hazard said:


> now tell me if this heart virus can kill some1 who can survive potent virus‘.


Whaa... ? English friend, use it.


Hazard said:


> you cant , which means you dont fuckin know if lets say cell or some1 stronger than the goku who had it could survive it.


Unless Cell displays the ability to resist viruses, we assume by default that will work on him. 


Hazard said:


> what you showed me is that „hax“ can affect them even with the ki diffrence but you didnt tell me how potent that virus/hax was.


This doesen't matter if there are no shown resistances.


Hazard said:


> so you limit the virus to being powerfull enough to hurt goku


Jesus Christ... no. That was an example to a general rule.


Hazard said:


> which means any1 stronger than him would survive it and how do they do it? fuckin ki.


No because stronger people didn't show resistance to this kind of thing. Once again you don't equate how strong someone is to haxx.

I explained this shit to you with examples and in serveral different ways. You're just being too fucking dense at this point and you cling to something that has nothing to do with what was explained.


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## OrangePeel (Dec 15, 2017)

@reyatsuguy  how do you have the energy to reply to that guy? I'd have thrown in the towel long ago


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## Adamant soul (Dec 15, 2017)

OrangePeel said:


> when was that? Soi fon? That was just KS fckery as we later see a much stronger aizen still being haxed by gin. Concept was also never brought up again later, infact an even stronger version of aizen gets fcked by a fodder quincy hax. So yh db gets fcked in speed equal. @Regicide  what say you.



No it wasn't KS fuckery or did you forget Ichigo (who is not under KS) was watching the fight and would have told them they were hitting air? Aizen didn't use KS in that fight until he switched places with Momo. He no sold Soi Fon's hax to make a point, Bleach hax doesn't work on massively stronger opponents.

Gin's hax worked because he is MUCH stronger than Soi Fon, simple as that. So no DB isn't getting fucked by Bleach hax speed equal or not.


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## OrangePeel (Dec 15, 2017)

Adamant soul said:


> No it wasn't KS fuckery or did you forget Ichigo (who is not under KS) was watching the fight and would have told them they were hitting air? Aizen didn't use KS in that fight until he switched places with Momo. He no sold Soi Fon's hax to make a point, Bleach hax doesn't work on massively stronger opponents.
> 
> Gin's hax worked because he is MUCH stronger than Soi Fon, simple as that. So no DB isn't getting fucked by Bleach hax speed equal or not.


This issue has been resolved, read what nighty said. Only in-verse would the hax negation work since it is an application of reiatsu, something that isn't equalised. Also gin being much stronger doesnt mean shit when that version of aizen was also on a whole new level (transcendent).


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## Adamant soul (Dec 15, 2017)

OrangePeel said:


> This issue has been resolved, read what nighty said. Only in-verse would the hax negation work since it is an application of reiatsu, something that isn't equalised. Also gin being much stronger doesnt mean shit when that version of aizen was also on a whole new level (transcendent).



No it hasn't because that's exactly the type of thing that would be equalized. They just flare up their reiatsu, same thing DB character's do with KI or Naruto character's do with chakra. They no sell Bleach hax simple as that.

Which just means Gin was straight up strong enough to effect a transcendent being, Aizen already proved a much stronger person would simply no sell hax like that. Ergo Gin was not massively weaker than him. So no it means quite a bit actually.


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## OrangePeel (Dec 15, 2017)

Adamant soul said:


> No it hasn't because that's exactly the type of thing that would be equalized. They just flare up their reiatsu, same thing DB character's do with KI or Naruto character's do with chakra. They no sell Bleach hax simple as that.
> 
> Which just means Gin was straight up strong enough to effect a transcendent being, Aizen already proved a much stronger person would simply no sell hax like that. Ergo Gin was not massively weaker than him. So no it means quite a bit actually.


It's similar to haki, when we equalize that we are not giving them haki abilities. Reiatsu has special properties which arent equalised.
@Nighty the Mighty mind clearing this up? About to go watch anmovie.


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## Adamant soul (Dec 15, 2017)

OrangePeel said:


> It's similar to haki, when we equalize that we are not giving them haki abilities. Reiatsu has special properties which arent equalised.
> @Nighty the Mighty mind clearing this up? About to go watch anmovie.



Except we've seen ki can block and override hax from weaker character's as well, there's little to no difference between ki and reiatsu aside from the "crushing" thing. Ki and Reiatsu have been shown to work in the same way regarding hax vs weaker character's therefore that aspect is equalised.


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## Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha (Dec 15, 2017)

Adamant soul said:


> Except we've seen ki can block and override hax from weaker character's as well, there's little to no difference between ki and reiatsu aside from the "crushing" thing. Ki and Reiatsu have been shown to work in the same way regarding hax vs weaker character's therefore that aspect is equalised.




Ki blocking some hax, is not the same thing as it blocking all hax.

Not all hax is equivalent- that is how it is different form pure DC. 

If Ki could block all hax,- Bibidi wouldn't have been able to seal buu inside a ball-


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## Volt manta (Dec 15, 2017)

Adamant soul said:


> No it hasn't because that's exactly the type of thing that would be equalized. They just flare up their reiatsu, same thing DB character's do with KI or Naruto character's do with chakra. They no sell Bleach hax simple as that.


False equivalence. That's like saying because Piccolo has Kami and Nail inside him he'd be able to break out of Sharingan jutsu similar to a bijuu. Or a massively stronger opponent than Buu would be able to pull the same trick agsinst his candy beam that Vegito did. Bleach characters being able to no sell their own hax isn't equal to DBZ characters being able to no sell their own hax (especially hax they haven't encountered since the DBZ days. Or at all). Bleach characters aren't DB characters. DB characters aren't Bleach characters. Ki isn't reiatsu, even if the two happen to carry similar mechanics. You always need to demonstrate resistance feats; nobody gets a pass on that.


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## Regicide (Dec 15, 2017)

Adamant soul said:


> They just flare up their reiatsu, same thing DB character's do with KI or Naruto character's do with chakra. They no sell Bleach hax simple as that.


Did I walk into a time warp or something? You can't resist hax with strength.

There's only real "example" of this in-series with Soifon and her shikai ain't hax to begin with.


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## Bad Wolf (Dec 15, 2017)

Adamant soul said:


> Gin's hax worked because he is MUCH stronger than Soi Fon, simple as that. So no DB isn't getting fucked by Bleach hax speed equal or not.





OrangePeel said:


> Also gin being much stronger doesnt mean shit when that version of aizen was also on a whole new level (transcendent).


Aizen was going around with his reiatsu at minimum at that moment


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## OrangePeel (Dec 15, 2017)

Adamant soul said:


> Except we've seen ki can block and override hax from weaker character's as well, there's little to no difference between ki and reiatsu aside from the "crushing" thing. Ki and Reiatsu have been shown to work in the same way regarding hax vs weaker character's therefore that aspect is equalised.


When we equalise we don't make things exactly the same, just the basic properties, look at haki for example when equalising we don't give the opponent haki abilities, we just make it so the energies behave similarly and allow them to interact (prime example being bleach, since you need spirit energy to interact with them).

So if ki can override hax as you've said, then this would only apply against ki based hax (or users) and in a cross battle they will have resistance to that specific hax on the scale they've shown to override. That's it.

Also Reiatsu can block physical attack as it behaves like an armor (refer to ichigo vs kenpachi) , so infact now that regi brought up the fact that soi-fon's ability isn't hax this whole thing is kinda moot.


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## Gunstarvillain (Dec 15, 2017)

I don't care what none of yall say intagibility with naruto eye hax means get fucked.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Blade (Dec 15, 2017)

14 pages for this shitty ass thread

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2 | Funny 2


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 15, 2017)

Blade said:


> 14 pages for this shitty ass thread


its only 6 if youre at 50 posts a page


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## NightmareCinema (Dec 15, 2017)

Gunstarvillain said:


> I don't care what none of yall say intagibility with naruto eye hax means get fucked.


No one cares what you have to say either, wanker. Jiren's eyes >>>>>>>>>>> Nardoverse's eyes



Blade said:


> 14 pages for this shitty ass thread



Plenty of cancerous posters in the thread, brah. Unfortunate.


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## Gunstarvillain (Dec 15, 2017)

NightmareCinema said:


> No one cares what you have to say either, wanker. Jiren's eyes >>>>>>>>>>> Nardoverse's eyes
> 
> 
> 
> Plenty of cancerous posters in the thread, brah. Unfortunate.


I could come down to your level and quote a couple of your previous posts.

But let your last post roast you.
If you wana be sassy like a bottom then hey just say you want the D

Reactions: Funny 1


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## NightmareCinema (Dec 15, 2017)

Gunstarvillain said:


> I could come down to your level and quote a couple of your previous posts.
> 
> But let your last post roast you.
> If you wana be sassy like a bottom then hey just say you want the D


I'm sorry, what? I couldn't hear you over the sound of your girl screaming my name.

"OH NIGHTMARE-SAMA! YOU'RE SO MUCH BETTER THAN THAT JABRONI GUNSTARVILLAIN!"

Stay in that little cave that you call a home, troll. It would benefit the whole world more the less they have to see of you.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 3


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## Hachibi (Dec 15, 2017)

TL;DR: Composite HST get analprobed by Jiren, thread lasted 14 pages to long and deserve to burn


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## Blakk Jakk (Dec 15, 2017)

I see you looking at this thread @MusubiKazesaru 

You heard Hachibi. It’s time to blow this taco stand


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## MusubiKazesaru (Dec 15, 2017)

Probably.


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