# Orochimaru VS Itachi



## nmwn93 (Oct 30, 2013)

okay the only restrictions I have are the Mirror and the sword of sealing for itachi, and the first hokage for oro.  everything else allowed who do you really think would win. I honestly think now when I look back at things that maybe Orochimaru overestimated Itachi. I think he would be able to at least hold his own. idk im not going to post a whole long explanation but I think oro has the power to out last itachi. and plus his edo tensi cud kill itachi if he can stay out of genjutsu but what if itachi caught one of oros edo tensis in a genjutsu hmm... what do you think 

oro vs itachi  btw itachi is alive in this scenario.

who wins?


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## Brooks (Oct 30, 2013)

lol, Orochimaru still has Minato,Hiruzen, and Tobirama

Do i really need to answer this?


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## Legendary Itachi (Oct 30, 2013)

Itachi Genjutsu him before he brings out his Edo army. Worst case he still Genjutsu him to cancel Edo Tensei or Genjutsu unawakened BM Minato. Itachi solos.


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## nmwn93 (Oct 30, 2013)

your talking as if oro is some type of spring chicken. he would know not to look itachi in the eyes man. and idk I cant see him really beating oro so to say genjutsu , I think oro would have his edos break him from the genjutsu! when he "fought" itachi the first time he was resisting the tsukoyomi if itachi didn't cut off his hand he would have released it.


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## Legendary Itachi (Oct 30, 2013)

Everyone knows not to look at Itachi eyes, but it's easier said than done. 

Itachi won't give him time to use Edo Tensei. It's questionable whether Orochimaru can fully control his unawakened Edo zombies before Itachi lands Genjutsu or Tsukuyomi on him, he found it hard to control a FP Tobirama, let alone fighting efficiently. Bar Partner method, Orochimaru has no new feats to suggest that he can escape from the same fate he faced before.


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## the_symbol_of_rebirth (Oct 30, 2013)

Yeah Orochimaru + the Kages will quickly overwhelm Itachi.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 30, 2013)

Itachi is faster, a better taijutsu fighter and equally strong. He runs towards Oro, grabs his head and forces eye contact(if he attempts to avoid it), Tsukiyomi GG.


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## nmwn93 (Oct 30, 2013)

edo tensi only takes a clap of his hands lol


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## nmwn93 (Oct 30, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Itachi is faster, a better taijutsu fighter and equally strong. He runs towards Oro, grabs his head and forces eye contact(if he attempts to avoid it), Tsukiyomi GG.


who said he was equal in taijutsu? and as far as genjutsu he had to cut oros hand off to keep him from releasing the spell. your underestimating oros speed aswell he can uses snake clones too btw


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 30, 2013)

Neko White said:


> who said he was equal in taijutsu? and as far as genjutsu he had to cut oros hand off to keep him from releasing the spell. your underestimating oros speed aswell he can uses snake clones too btw



I didn't say they were equal in taijutsu. Itachi is much superior.


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## nmwn93 (Oct 30, 2013)

ridiculous


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## UchihaDarkShadow (Oct 30, 2013)

Oro vs Itachi? Pffffff.... Itachi cut his arm off and he wasn't even trying that hard. Yeah, no he doesn't stand a chance.


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## Nikushimi (Oct 30, 2013)

Neko White said:


> edo tensi only takes a clap of his hands lol



do this


Based on what we know about both characters, this fight goes one of two ways (with the Totsuka no Tsurugi restricted):

1) As seen above, Itachi disables Orochimaru before he is able to get off any Jutsu and blitzes him repeatedly until he is incapacitated, very much like Fullmetal Alchemist's Wrath vs. Greed.

2) Orochimaru manages to summon Edo Tensei and actually handles them competently enough to gain the upperhand. Feeling pressured, Itachi retreats, forfeiting the battle; however, he can always come back and try to take Orochimaru out under more advantageous circumstances, at his own discretion- in which case, you face a repeat of the choice between these same two probable outcomes until Itachi breaks the cycle with a victory or just decides not to come back for a rematch.


With the Totsuka unrestricted, you can add the third option of Itachi cleaning up Orochimaru even if he does summon Edo Tensei. Hiruzen almost managed to seal Orochimaru and his zombies and would've pulled it off if he wasn't simply too weak to do it.


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## Master Sephiroth (Oct 30, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> do this
> 
> 
> Based on what we know about both characters, this fight goes one of two ways (with the Totsuka no Tsurugi restricted):
> ...




Orochimaru is not a fool. He can close his eyes and clap his hands at the same time. The coffins will break his line of sight after that. 

Itachi forfeiting by leaving would be an outright win for Orochimaru. Itachi can come back, but who's to say that Orochimaru will still be there? Lol. I guess the OP should clarify the location.


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## nmwn93 (Oct 30, 2013)

Location hmmm idk. to make it interesting the pain vs J man battle field in the hidden rain village


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## richard lewis (Oct 30, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> this
> 
> 
> Based on what we know about both characters, this fight goes one of two ways (with the Totsuka no Tsurugi restricted):
> ...



I'm pretty sure oro was trying to steal itachi's body there making it easier for itachi to genjutsu him..... that isn't the case here.

You guys are just trolls if you think oro can't summon his edo's b4 getting killed.


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## Nikushimi (Oct 30, 2013)

Master Sephiroth said:


> Orochimaru is not a fool. He can close his eyes and clap his hands at the same time. The coffins will break his line of sight after that.



Closing his eyes is just gonna give Itachi the opportunity to pepper him with burning shuriken and then kick him to death while he's rolling around on the ground in agony.



> Itachi forfeiting by leaving would be an outright win for Orochimaru. Itachi can come back, but who's to say that Orochimaru will still be there? Lol. I guess the OP should clarify the location.



I don't think it matters where Orochimaru goes; he will have to live the rest of his life on the run...from Itachi. Not a good position to be in.



richard lewis said:


> I'm pretty sure oro was trying to steal itachi's body there making it easier for itachi to genjutsu him..... that isn't the case here.



That claim demands evidence.

It also begs an explanation of how trying to take Itachi's body makes Orochimaru more vulnerable to Genjutsu; pretty sure he can do that with his eyes closed, too.



> You guys are just trolls if you think oro can't summon his edo's b4 getting killed.



That's exactly what we saw in their first encounter, so I guess Kishi is a troll.

But we already knew that.


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## Master Sephiroth (Oct 30, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> Closing his eyes is just gonna give Itachi the opportunity to pepper him with burning shuriken and then kick him to death while he's rolling around on the ground in agony.



1: Orochimaru has some semblance of being a sensor.
2: The coffins would block the crimson shuriken. 




> I don't think it matters where Orochimaru goes; he will have to live the rest of his life on the run...from Itachi. Not a good position to be in.



You mean the rest of Itachi's sick life.


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## Veracity (Oct 30, 2013)

What the hell is this Oro underestimation?  People tend to forget to that Oro is a Fucking Sannin who is slightly below Itachi. The notion of Itachi absolutely fodderizing Oro is actually disgusting. 

Oro can summon waves upon waves of snakes(like against Naruto) + plus summon Manda to hold off Itachi for literally 3 seconds as he claps his fucking hands and hits the ground. Then the fight is over as each Kage takes turns curb stomping Itachi. 

Basically, the Sannin are perceived as Tsunade = Jirayia(base) = Oro. And we know from canon that at the very least Itachi = Jirayia.  And now Oro has a perfected Edo? 

So yeah, fuck the Itachi wank.


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## FlamingRain (Oct 30, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> Basically, the Sannin are perceived as Tsunade = Jirayia(base) = Oro.



Base?

The Sannin are percieved as Slug Princess ~ Toad _Sage_ ~ White Snake.


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## Rocky (Oct 30, 2013)

Sage Mode Jiraiya is ridiculously stronger than Tsunade, though the two Elder Toads contribute to that.


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## Ersa (Oct 30, 2013)

Senju-enchanced Orochimaru w/ Edo Tensei is also ridiculously stronger than Tsunade, more so if he actually managed to absorb Sage Mode from Kabuto.


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## Veracity (Oct 30, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> Base?
> 
> The Sannin are percieved as Slug Princess ~ Toad _Sage_ ~ White Snake.



IMO ONLY reason SM Jirayia is superior to Tsunade is because of Genjusu(basically his damn toads like Rocky pointed out) even though it took like 9 panels for it to actually take effect. Jirayia literally got of an entire combination attack in each pain before said Genjustu effects occurred.


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## FlamingRain (Oct 30, 2013)

_@ Rocky and Likes Boss,_

I think Tsunade and Orochimaru both are stronger than base Jiraiya by a similar margin that he's superior to them in Sage Mode, and they don't need to bide time to reach their peak performances. _And_ I see them defeating an identical number of opponents.

But I don't feel like getting into that now. . .

We are talking about _perception_. And people shouldn't be expected to forget to factor in the Sage techniques of the Toad Sage.

Kyokan you need to pay attention to that detail too, and Orochimaru with _Edo Tensei_ is also ridiculously stronger than Itachi, and Nagato, so yeah I don't really agree with using that as a gauge for power.


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## Veracity (Oct 30, 2013)

Kyokan said:


> Senju-enchanced Orochimaru w/ Edo Tensei is also ridiculously stronger than Tsunade, more so if he actually managed to absorb Sage Mode from Kabuto.



ONLY with Edo. Otherwise, there's nothing to suggest he's superior Tsunade.


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## Ersa (Oct 30, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> _@ Rocky and Likes Boss,_
> 
> I think Tsunade and Orochimaru both are stronger than base Jiraiya by a similar margin that he's superior to them in Sage Mode, and they don't need to bide time to reach their peak performances. _And_ I see them defeating an identical number of opponents.
> 
> ...


That's severely underrating base Jiraiya, the dude managed to neutralize Konan who is a low-Kage level kunoichi. Yomi Numa would be a serious hindrance to Tsunade at full power, he can counter Katsuyu with his toad army. Tsunade is stronger but not by a great margin. Honestly summons factor into the person's power, otherwise EMS Madara would be a lot weaker.

Nagato can stop him summoning via BT + Soul Rip or nuking the whole landscape with CST. Itachi's is a bit tricker but if Orochimaru looks in his eyes, he can Tsukiyomi/Sharingan genjutsu him and if he doesn't then he sets him alight with Amaterasu. Tsunade doesn't have this luxury, considering her lack of options at 5m (short of trying to blitz him which won't work) and Orochimaru is faster than her (has his arms back/4.5 speed DB/Zetsu body).

Also as I mentioned if he did take Sage Mode from Kabuto then he's a good deal stronger now too. Which is possible as he has a Zetsu body now but I'll wait for confirmation. Without it or Edo Tensei then I'd agree he'd be around her level.


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## Bonly (Oct 30, 2013)

As long as Orochi can use Edo Tensei to bring out Tobirama(who can arguably beat Itachi times then not) or Minato(who can beat Itachi more times then not) then I don't see Itachi winning more times then not, he outright doesn't stand a chance.


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## Ersa (Oct 30, 2013)

Bonly said:


> As long as Orochi can use Edo Tensei to bring out Tobirama(who can arguably beat Itachi times then not) or Minato(who can beat Itachi more times then not) then I don't see Itachi winning more times then not, he outright doesn't stand a chance.


Generally I agree, however Nagato I feel definitely can stop him summoning. Itachi may be able to depending on the conditions.

Unless Minato breaks free of Edo Tensei and protects his fellow golden boy


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## Luftwaffles (Oct 30, 2013)

Orochimaru has full knowledge due to Kabuto knowledge absorption. He can close his eyes and make the seals. If Itachi attacks, he can use Orochimaru Kawarimi to tank the damage. After that, it's GG for Itachi. Tobirama and Minato utterly rape him.


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## Turrin (Oct 31, 2013)

If this is current Orochimaru, even an unrestricted Edo Itachi is probably not winning; Orochimaru's Edo Tensei is simply too hax and it's unlikely that with nearly full knowledge on Itachi Orochimaru will be defeated before he can pull out Edo Tensei, in most scenarios. 

If were talking about Part I Orochimaru, than he'd loose to an unrestricted Itachi in most scenario's, but so long as were talking within the contest of a living-sick Itachi, he'd give him an extremely high degree of difficulty. As even for Itachi who is well suited to taking on Orochimaru's White-Snake and Edo Tensei abilities, it will still take a-lot out of him to take down Orochimaru and 3 Tensei (despite the Tensei being weakened). 

When it comes to restricted Itachi vs Part I Orochimaru, I think the match would probably go to Orochimaru or end in a draw, so long as Orochimaru uses his knowledge wisely enough. I mean w/o Totsuka sword, his only means to counter the ET would be Izanami and getting off Izanami solo against Orochimaru & 3 Tensei (despite being weakened)  is not really something I see happening. I could see Itachi maybe managing to kill Orochimaru before the Tensei eventually kill him tho.


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## Garcher (Oct 31, 2013)

Itachi already 1 panelled him twice ... one time with a genjutsu + kunai with 13 years .... Oro himself said that Itachi is stronger than him ... hm


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## FlamingRain (Oct 31, 2013)

Kyokan said:


> That's severely underrating base Jiraiya, the dude managed to neutralize Konan who is a low-Kage level kunoichi. Yomi Numa would be a serious hindrance to Tsunade at full power, he can counter Katsuyu with his toad army. Tsunade is stronger but not by a great margin. Honestly summons factor into the person's power, otherwise EMS Madara would be a lot weaker.



Jiraiya fans severely underestimating Jiraiya in any form is something extremely unlikely.

When did I ever imply Jiraiya wasn't Kage level in base? I haven't and I don't need to. The Konan situation was impressive, but don't ignore the fact that he had easy access to her specific weakness and knowledge of it, making it a whole lot easier for him than it typically would be for someone of his general level. If you're maintaining that event was a reflection of a massive power gap you may as well imply base Jiraiya > Obito since Konan removed his arm before resorting to her prepped tactic.

Tsunade is faster than Jiraiya in base and _Hari Jizō_ isn't protecting crap. _Yomi Numa_ is not a serious hindrance as she could swim straight through it if it caught her. His boss summons are his biggest strength and she's a natural summon buster, and the toads cannot deal with Katsuyus on their own, they'd need to rely on Jiraiya's _Yomi Numa_ to immobilize them. Tsunade vs. Base Jiraiya is a mid-difficulty game of cat and mouse for the Slug Princess, imo.

On top of this you're continuing to ignore the topic of _perception_. They are canonically on the same level overall. The Toad Sage having Sage techniques was not some secret and Kishimoto's sketches of Sage Mode date back to part 1.



> Nagato can stop him summoning via BT + Soul Rip or nuking the whole landscape with CST. Itachi's is a bit tricker but if Orochimaru looks in his eyes, he can Tsukiyomi/Sharingan genjutsu him and if he doesn't then he sets him alight with Amaterasu. Tsunade doesn't have this luxury, considering her lack of options at 5m (short of trying to blitz him which won't work) and Orochimaru is faster than her (has his arms back/4.5 speed DB/Zetsu body).
> 
> Also as I mentioned if he did take Sage Mode from Kabuto then he's a good deal stronger now too. Which is possible as he has a Zetsu body now but I'll wait for confirmation. Without it or Edo Tensei then I'd agree he'd be around her level.



_BT_ isn't going to do much when Orochimaru has coffins in front of him. So Nagato pulls the tops off of the coffins? I think that helps Orochimaru. _CST_ has an extensive charge time, _Edo Tensei_ does not.

Orochimaru knows better than to look into Itachi's eyes before he claps his hands and Itachi dies at the hands of the Hokages. All of Kabuto's methods are ones taken from Orochimaru after all, as Sasuke knew about them in preparation for fighting sickly Orochimaru.

Fodder Zetsu bodies don't increase speed, Orochimaru statistically having superior footspeed doesn't mean that he's faster than Tsunade overall, because that 4.5 doesn't factor in Ninjutsu such as _Shunshin_, and Tsunade's has had more impressive displays of it so far. Only reason she's 3.5 is because of her heels


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## DeK3iDE (Oct 31, 2013)

Itachi the Best said:


> *Itachi already 1 panelled him twice ... one time with a genjutsu + kunai with 13 years* .... Oro himself said that Itachi is stronger than him ... hm


it's for this reason that i believe the manga already answered the question about who would win. Oro has ET on his side and some of everything else, but there's no ignoring how easy it looked for Itachi just to cut his hand off. And him saying what he said about Itachi just makes it look worse really


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## Bonly (Oct 31, 2013)

Kyokan said:


> Generally I agree, however Nagato I feel definitely can stop him summoning. Itachi may be able to depending on the conditions.
> 
> Unless Minato breaks free of Edo Tensei and protects his fellow golden boy



Where did Nagato come from?


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## johnsuwey (Oct 31, 2013)

Neko White said:


> your talking as if oro is some type of spring chicken. he would know not to look itachi in the eyes man. and idk I cant see him really beating oro so to say genjutsu , I think oro would have his edos break him from the genjutsu! when he "fought" itachi the first time he was resisting the tsukoyomi if itachi didn't cut off his hand he would have released it.



Orochimaru was also sick.

Also Itachi was 16, and likely in his prime at the time.  When he fought Sasuke Itachi was only about High Jounin level.

Also, Orochimaru is much stronger now!

This is no contest, Orochimaru wins easily if he is actually trying to kill him.


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## Ersa (Oct 31, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> Jiraiya fans severely underestimating Jiraiya in any form is something extremely unlikely.
> 
> When did I ever imply Jiraiya wasn't Kage level in base? I haven't and I don't need to. The Konan situation was impressive, but don't ignore the fact that he had easy access to her specific weakness and knowledge of it, making it a whole lot easier for him than it typically would be for someone of his general level. If you're maintaining that event was a reflection of a massive power gap you may as well imply base Jiraiya > Obito since Konan removed his arm before resorting to her prepped tactic.


The fact the you believe there's a similar gap between Jiraiya and Tsunade and her and his SM form suggests that to me as I consider Jiraiya on a higher tier than her in Sage Mode (the frogs help here a tonne however) and would always comfortably defeat Tsunade. I think Tsunade is stronger than his base form but it's nowhere near the gap you're suggesting.  A>B>C logic doesn't work here, Konan had prep too and her abilities are better suited to fighting Tobi.



> Tsunade is faster than Jiraiya in base and _Hari Jizō_ isn't protecting crap. _Yomi Numa_ is not a serious hindrance as she could swim straight through it if it caught her. His boss summons are his biggest strength and she's a natural summon buster, and the toads cannot deal with Katsuyus on their own, they'd need to rely on Jiraiya's _Yomi Numa_ to immobilize them. Tsunade vs. Base Jiraiya is a mid-difficulty game of cat and mouse for the Slug Princess, imo.


I don't think she's too much faster. Jiraiya was faster than her back in Part I in terms of movement speed and though she may have surpassed him. He can more than comfortably react to her. A summon couldn't swim through a drugged Jiraiya's Yomi Numa, I doubt Tsunade is going to swim through a full power version; perhaps she can break out eventually but it won't be easy.  Pretty sure Gamabunta was portrayed as more or less equal to Katsuyu; add on another toad and they win. Katsuyu isn't that powerful 

And I agree, but a mid-difficulty fight suggests the gap is not big. Something you seem to be advocating for. SM Jiraiya >> Tsunade > Base Jiraiya.


> On top of this you're continuing to ignore the topic of _perception_. They are canonically on the same level overall. The Toad Sage having Sage techniques was not some secret and Kishimoto's sketches of Sage Mode date back to part 1.


Feats show otherwise, SM Jiraiya is still stronger than either at this point (Orochimaru will change things).



> _BT_ isn't going to do much when Orochimaru has coffins in front of him. So Nagato pulls the tops off of the coffins? I think that helps Orochimaru. _CST_ has an extensive charge time, _Edo Tensei_ does not.


Nagato will activate BT faster than Orochimaru can start to summon; this is the dude who can ensnare speedsters like KCM Naruto and B. Also BT designates a target I believe, otherwise it'd pull everything around the user to him. A boss-summon level ST will stop Orochimaru too and that is more or less instant, remember that it's Nagato and not Deva.


> Orochimaru knows better than to look into Itachi's eyes before he claps his hands and Itachi dies at the hands of the Hokages. All of Kabuto's methods are ones taken from Orochimaru after all, as Sasuke knew about them in preparation for fighting sickly Orochimaru.


If the range is short enough, Itachi can just grab him with a Susanoo limb (which is nigh instant, I'll link the Sasuke/Itachi panel if you need, also the formation of Susanoo is faster than Itachi himself who is much faster than Orochimaru) and put him under Tsukiyomi. At longer distances Orochimaru wins no doubt. Itachi can't handle Minato and Tobirama together (even his Edo form can only handle one at a time).


> Fodder Zetsu bodies don't increase speed, Orochimaru statistically having superior footspeed doesn't mean that he's faster than Tsunade overall, because that 4.5 doesn't factor in Ninjutsu such as _Shunshin_, and Tsunade's has had more impressive displays of it so far. Only reason she's 3.5 is because of her heels


Movement speed is still something, shinobi use it more than Shunshin. How often does KCM Naruto use his flash Shunshin instead of just speeding away normally?


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## FlamingRain (Oct 31, 2013)

I almost can't believe Jiraiya vs. Tsunade is happening in an Orochimaru vs. Itachi thread. 



Kyokan said:


> I consider Jiraiya on a higher tier than her in Sage Mode (the frogs help here a tonne however) and would always comfortably defeat Tsunade.



Likewise, I consider both of Jiraiya's contemporaries to be higher than his base mode and capable of comfortably defeating him consistently.

The "higher _tier_" thing is going to get into a mess depending on how broad we both consider tiers to be in the first place as well as a load of other stuff.



> I think Tsunade is stronger than his base form but it's nowhere near the gap you're suggesting.



Why isn't it exactly?



> A>B>C logic doesn't work here, Konan had prep too and her abilities are better suited to fighting Tobi.



And of course you're the one using it in the first place, not me. You are the one pointing to the Konan example as a reflection of Jiraiya's base power while failing to take into account that he has specific knowledge of her weakness and coincidentally has easy access to it. My Obito example that ignored specific skillset match-ups is simply showing how that could be faulty.



> I don't think she's too much faster. Jiraiya was faster than her back in Part I in terms of movement speed and though she may have surpassed him. He can more than comfortably react to her. A summon couldn't swim through a drugged Jiraiya's Yomi Numa, I doubt Tsunade is going to swim through a full power version; perhaps she can break out eventually but it won't be easy.  Pretty sure Gamabunta was portrayed as more or less equal to Katsuyu; add on another toad and they win.



She doesn't need to be a whole lot faster, just notably so, and despite being intimately familiar with all of Jiraiya's feats as if they were the back of my hand, I don't recall any showings that suggest base Jiraiya was faster than her in terms of movement back then. _Shunshin_ is a Ninjutsu, but it is still 'movement'. I also wasn't trying to imply he couldn't react to her.

What the snake fodder could and could not do may as well be irrelevant: firstly it is without limbs to resist opposition as efficiently, and secondly it does not compare to the high end physical characters in the series anyway. There is no reason to believe Jiraiya's swamp is something a character as physically powerful as Tsunade could not comfortably escape.

Gamabunta being portrayed as Katsuyu's equal doesn't give him the ability to solo her in particular, and adding another toad that also can't do anything doesn't help him. She still survives everything they have regardless of number. I'm pretty sure Tsunade can add another slug just like Jiraiya can add another toad anyway because the one summoned alongside Sakura was more than twice as big as the boss summon sized Kurama avatar when compared to the tree roots.



> And I agree, but a mid-difficulty fight suggests the gap is not big. Something you seem to be advocating for. SM Jiraiya >> Tsunade > Base Jiraiya.



I'd call Sage Jiraiya vs. Tsunade "mid-difficulty" too, though.

Sage J-man > Tsunade and Orochi > Base J-man.



> Feats show otherwise, SM Jiraiya is still stronger than either at this point.



Even if they did, the issue was how the Sannin were perceived, _not_ their feats. That is what was seemingly ignored here, I was specifically addressing perception.

Feats also show that base Jiraiya is weaker than either, and that he needs to bide to reach his heightened form- a drawback neither of his former teammates have to face. In my eyes, it serves as compensation for his comparatively weaker base mode that equalizes them out and stays consistent with their perception.

If I were you I wouldn't expect Orochimaru to show anything new at this point either.



> Nagato will activate BT faster than Orochimaru can start to summon; this is the dude who can ensnare speedsters like KCM Naruto and B. Also BT designates a target I believe, otherwise it'd pull everything around the user to him. A boss-summon level ST will stop Orochimaru too and that is more or less instant, remember that it's Nagato and not Deva.
> 
> If the range is short enough, Itachi can just grab him with a Susanoo limb (which is nigh instant, I'll link the Sasuke/Itachi panel if you need, also the formation of Susanoo is faster than Itachi himself who is much faster than Orochimaru) and put him under Tsukiyomi. At longer distances Orochimaru wins no doubt. Itachi can't handle Minato and Tobirama together (even his Edo form can only handle one at a time).



He ensnared them when they weren't expecting it. Orochimaru doesn't need to be expecting anything in order to clap his hands with coffins rising in front of him as a result. Once said coffins come up Orochi is safe. BT has never shown to attract anything that was concealed, even against Kakashi Asura stood beside Deva's hand as opposed to standing between it and Kakashi.

Orochimaru can barf up another body and slither away if that were to occur.



> Movement speed is still something



Oh I know it is, I don't ignore it.


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## IchLiebe (Oct 31, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> _@ Rocky and Likes Boss,_
> 
> I think Tsunade and Orochimaru both are stronger than base Jiraiya by a similar margin that he's superior to them in Sage Mode, and they don't need to bide time to reach their peak performances. _And_ I see them defeating an identical number of opponents.


 With ET and Sage enhancements aside, I feel like both are very versatile shinobi with a wide array of jutsu. But base wise Orochimaru seems to have AOE and with the new body modifications he should in all reality be able to use mokuton(he is in a spore clone). But Jiraiya shouldn't be underestimated and is very efficient with his techniques, he ends fights as quick as possible.





> But I don't feel like getting into that now. . .
> 
> We are talking about _perception_. And people shouldn't be expected to forget to factor in the Sage techniques of the Toad Sage.


 Yea but those only come out when they are pushed there most time, depending on stipulations. I see Orochimaru being the stronger of the three.





> Kyokan you need to pay attention to that detail too, and Orochimaru with _Edo Tensei_ is also ridiculously stronger than Itachi, and Nagato, so yeah I don't really agree with using that as a gauge for power.


Maybe not Nagato that dude is a powerhouse, depending on who they got he may be in for a rough time.


YM is restricted, so Sword of Kusanagi will slice Itachi in half through Susanoo since he can extend it. So Itachi's dies from getting stabbed by Orochimaru's sword


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## Etherborn (Oct 31, 2013)

UchihaDarkShadow said:


> Oro vs Itachi? Pffffff.... Itachi cut his arm off and he wasn't even trying that hard. Yeah, no he doesn't stand a chance.



5 bars of red on your first post. I'm impressed.


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## Vice (Nov 1, 2013)

Haha. This is stupid.

It's 4 kage-level fighters vs. 1. Hell, half the combatants on team Orochimaru can solo by themselves.


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## kaminogan (Nov 1, 2013)

if itachi goes beast mode and starts throwing kunai like crazy and using his katons and his crows....

eventually you'll have a giant mountain of flesh that is orochimaru and a dying anorexic skinny itachi,


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## Complete_Ownage (Nov 1, 2013)

With full knowledge on each other it comes down to if Orochimaru can somewhow get off the Edo Tensei jutsu. If he doesnt we all know what the outcome is going to be for the third time. IF orochimaru can summon atleast one kage level shinobi such as Mu or trollkage he pretty much seals his win. If he summons someone like Hashirama, Minato, or Tobirama then its pretty much a stomp


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## Rob (Nov 1, 2013)

Oro Defenders: Reasoning, Sense
Itachi Defenders: ITACHEE RUNZ IN DER AND TSUKOYOMEE'S LEL!


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## Rain (Nov 1, 2013)

lol at people still thinking Itachi and Jiraiya are equals or that Orochimaru has any way of defeating Itachi. I can't even comprehend how can someone have such a terrible understanding of the manga.


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## LogiaMaster666 (Nov 1, 2013)

Rain said:


> lol at people still thinking Itachi and Jiraiya are equals or that Orochimaru has any way of defeating Itachi. I can't even comprehend how can someone have such a terrible understanding of the manga.



I totally agree, but if Edo Tensei already started, the remaining Hokages would proceed to own Itachi. Yes, Itachi could stop it by casting a Genjutsu on Orochimaru, but he's not getting past three Hokages in order to do that. Orochi is smart enough to know to run away, and avoid risking Edo be undone, and let the three Hokages stomp the shit out of Itachi.


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## Van Konzen (Nov 1, 2013)

If Oro can use the 3 hokage with such abilities with what they are showing now,
not just mindless zombies, the king would bow down..


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## Lord Valgaav (Nov 1, 2013)

Why are we assuming Orochimaru can control the Hokage for battle when he's only at best been shown to hinder one of their movements? I mean if someone like Hanzo could break free I don't see why the Hokage can't. 

Take that away and Itachi wins. 

Also OP restricted Itachi's ultimate weapons. Yes, he's took away Hashi for Oro but its already been shown he can't control him so that really wasn't a handicap. 

Itachi is stronger than Orochimaru. Simple as that.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 1, 2013)

RobLucciRapes said:


> Oro Defenders: Reasoning, Sense
> Itachi Defenders: ITACHEE RUNZ IN DER AND TSUKOYOMEE'S LEL!



Oro defenders : Denial, manga canon refusal, fanfiction

Itachi defenders : King soloes 

It is obvious who is right


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## Rob (Nov 1, 2013)

Stop trollin'


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## Lord Valgaav (Nov 1, 2013)

Anyone wanna address my post?


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## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 1, 2013)

Lord Valgaav said:


> Anyone wanna address my post?



You can't adress the unadressable.

Itachi soloes


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## Lord Valgaav (Nov 1, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> You can't adress the unadressable.
> 
> Itachi soloes



I'll save the Itachi soloes for later.


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## kaminogan (Nov 1, 2013)

itachi can koto one of the edos 

no seriously that would make it fair,


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## Lord Aizen (Nov 3, 2013)

This fight already happened and itachi stomped him no difficulty, orochimaru himself said itachi was way stronger than him, itachi solod him in 2 second after he came out of sasukes body. 
Orochimaru stands no chance


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## kaminogan (Nov 3, 2013)

the sannin go like this,

frog(jiraya) > slug(tsunade) > snake(orochimaru) > frog


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## J★J♥ (Nov 3, 2013)

Iachi only won against him first time because he was dying and did not want to kill him.
Second time Orochimaru was literally dead and had no body and still managed to bring itachi to deaths door.

Healthy Orochimaru vs Itachi is one sided rape stomp in Oros favor.


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