# Sasuke vs Toriko



## Blanco (Apr 24, 2014)

Location: Earth
Distance: 100 meters
Speed Equal

ha


----------



## tkpirate (Apr 24, 2014)

wrong section.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 24, 2014)

we need to know for sure if Sauce has dat teleport now





although Sauce hasn't yet teleported his sword into someones brain, so we don't know if he can do that


----------



## Lurko (Apr 24, 2014)

Sasuke needs more feats, we need to know mpre about his technique and if he has his old ems abilities as well.


----------



## MusubiKazesaru (Apr 24, 2014)

He was blitzing Madara in some way or another though and managed to stab Madara. New chapter was fairly chaotic so it's hard to say for now.


----------



## Lurko (Apr 24, 2014)

All we know is Sasuke can definitely hurt him but Sasuke's abilities need to be explained better.


----------



## Sir Cool Blizzard (Apr 24, 2014)

Will wait and see.........Sauce may give him some trouble!!


----------



## ShadowReaper (Apr 24, 2014)

Sasuke lacks feats as of now, but he definetely became a lot stronger in these few chapters.


----------



## Ryo Shiki (Apr 24, 2014)

What's Toriko's speed & durability at?


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 24, 2014)

low quad digit and country+ level


----------



## Ryo Shiki (Apr 24, 2014)

Then Sasuke wins since Madara was more durable then that and he got casually split in half. Plus Sauce has hax on his side.


----------



## Darth Niggatron (Apr 24, 2014)

Wait, Nardo can actually beat Toriko now?
When did this happen?


----------



## Katsuargi (Apr 24, 2014)

Toriko the character? God tiers can, from what I can tell.

Toriko the manga as a verse? Probably not. I think the Disciples and up are planet level from Jirou.


----------



## FrozenFeathers (Apr 24, 2014)

Sasuke I guess.
It mainly comes from the Rikudou moon level thing.
Current Madara being close to Rikudou(stated by Rikodou) then sauce having the destructive power to cut him in half(or he is simply weak to Inton) he gets scaled close to that level.
The ones in Toriko that are possibly planet level are Acacia and his students.
The Heavenly Kings are much weaker.


----------



## Mr. Black Leg (Apr 24, 2014)

Toriko possibly loses before getting feats of Continent(To Multicontinent) level .

Jirou, on the other hand stops the planet dead on it's tracks along with Narutoverse .


----------



## Iwandesu (Apr 24, 2014)

Even rs HE was just small planet so yeah, even him can't solo a verse with possibly (joa) 4 planet mach 30k characters. 
Toriko is only a nardo strong top tier, though


----------



## LazyWaka (Apr 24, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> Even rs HE was just small planet so yeah, even him can't solo a verse with possibly (joa) 4 planet mach 30k characters.
> Toriko is only a nardo strong top tier, though



Toriko himself would easily be low god tier in Naruto.


----------



## Vicotex (Apr 24, 2014)

He get fucked by 8G Gai


----------



## Darth Niggatron (Apr 24, 2014)

LazyWaka said:


> Toriko himself would easily be low god tier in Naruto.


Sounds about right.
He's>>>>BM Naruto(who's the ideal Nardo toptier), but<<<Juubito.


----------



## LazyWaka (Apr 24, 2014)

First form Juubi and up is God tier in Naruto.


----------



## Iwandesu (Apr 24, 2014)

LazyWaka said:


> Toriko himself would easily be low god tier in Naruto.


God tiers at nardo are large continent to small planet. 
Unless you consider the unquantifiable above country level,  bsm nardo.


----------



## God Movement (Apr 24, 2014)

Toriko's flying forks are country level. He'd annihilate Sasuke.


----------



## Darth Niggatron (Apr 24, 2014)

Catch up, GM.
Nardo and Sauce are in exatons now.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 24, 2014)

> low god tier


what the fuck is that 


seriously, I hate when people start dividing tier categories like that , especially for god-tiers

god is god, it can't be low tier


----------



## Darth Niggatron (Apr 24, 2014)

Fluttershy said:


> god is god,



>Implying all gods are equal.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 24, 2014)

are you questioning God, maggot ?


----------



## Lurko (Apr 24, 2014)

God Movement said:


> Toriko's flying forks are country level. He'd annihilate Sasuke.



You might want to read the last chapter. ..


----------



## Darth Niggatron (Apr 24, 2014)

Fluttershy said:


> are you questioning God, maggot ?



Are you second-guessing God, ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)?


----------



## Iwandesu (Apr 24, 2014)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> You might want to read the last chapter. ..


Like, last fifty for comproved RS feats and last 1'5 hundreds for statements


----------



## Brooks (Apr 24, 2014)

God Movement said:


> Toriko's flying forks are country level. He'd annihilate Sasuke.



Someone hasn't been paying attention.


----------



## Kazu (Apr 24, 2014)

Kind of a sad day when Toriko loses to Sauce.


----------



## God Movement (Apr 25, 2014)

The powerscale in nardo is all over the place, someone is going to have to explain to me the trail of thought that leads to exatons.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 25, 2014)

all three of them fighting now (Madara, Sauce, Nardo) are at this point > Juubito >= V2 incomplete Juubi (from XX chapters ago) which is at least at that level with casual attacks (that's without accounting for its giant BB which is >>> regular BB)


they are also using RSes power now (and IIRC RS himself said Madara had reached his own level of power and is now striving to reach Kaguyas or something like that .. don't recall for sure)


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 25, 2014)

although Sauce hardly needs much DC when he teleports objects into people


----------



## shade0180 (Apr 25, 2014)

Juubi 2nd form was calc at exaton.. Juubi jin being superior to it gets the scaling... Current Nardo and sauce got a power up that let them overwhelm Juubi jin madara.. 

Basically the tiers goes something like this
Rikudo's mom

Rikudo
Rikudo's children
Current Naruto
Current Sauce
Juubi jin Madara w/ tree

8 gated Gai
Juubi Jin Madara before the tree
Juubi Jin Obito
BSM Naruto
Juubi 3rd Form
Juubi 2nd Form - exaton
Juubi 1st Form

pre Juubi Jin Madara


It is something close to this.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 25, 2014)

> BSM Naruto
> Juubi Jin Obito


lol what

Juubito owned BSM and senjutsu Susanoo at the same time

when he threw them into the ground


and how powerful Indra and Asura were is unknown at this point

I would say about the same as current Nardo and Sauce, but it's just a guess


----------



## shade0180 (Apr 25, 2014)

I did say it was something close ....  they are in the same tier.


----------



## God Movement (Apr 25, 2014)

Makes sense. What about speed?


----------



## Darth Niggatron (Apr 25, 2014)

LolShade.
Current Naruto>=Current Sauce>Madz w/ tree>8th Gate Gai>Madz w/o tree>Juubito>V2 Juubi>V1 Juubi>BSM Naruto>SM Hashirama>BM Naruto>EMS Sauce.


----------



## Darth Niggatron (Apr 25, 2014)

God Movement said:


> Makes sense. What about speed?


From the tier list I posted above, everyone >Madz w/o tree has Mach 24k attack speed.(8th Gate Gai could blitz Madz).


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 25, 2014)

> What about speed?


spacetime distortion via speed level +


----------



## Lurko (Apr 25, 2014)

Sasuke could just teleport Naruto's black sword into whoever they fight flawless victory.


----------



## Lurko (Apr 25, 2014)

Whoa oops wrong thread.


----------



## Vicotex (Apr 25, 2014)

Lurker you just reminded me of MK game series


----------



## Lurko (Apr 25, 2014)

Vicotex said:


> Lurker you just reminded me of MK game series



Sasuke puts one sword into brain while the other chops the part of the brain he put his sword into off.


----------



## Vicotex (Apr 26, 2014)

Those kinda stuffs are not allowed in VS


----------



## Lurko (Apr 26, 2014)

Why not? It's a fight well isn't it?


----------



## Yagami1211 (Apr 26, 2014)

Vicotex said:


> Those kinda stuffs are not allowed in VS



Well, he kinda did it to Madara. I don't see why he wouldn't be able to here.


----------



## Vicotex (Apr 26, 2014)

Madara really deserve it for using limbo. No one in toriko deserve such


----------



## Vicotex (Apr 26, 2014)

And next chapter is going to determine if sasuke rinnegan can bypass dimension


----------



## Lurko (Apr 26, 2014)

Stop making sense vico.


----------



## FrozenFeathers (Apr 27, 2014)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> Stop making sense vico.



Sort of makes me wonder who rep'd him.


----------



## Lurko (Apr 27, 2014)

FrozenFeathers said:


> Sort of makes me wonder who rep'd him.



Indeed you never know.


----------



## Chad (Apr 27, 2014)

I just got Vicotex to green. 

OT: Sasuke rapes.


----------



## Lurko (Apr 27, 2014)

He isn't green right now.


----------



## shade0180 (Apr 27, 2014)

He is 4 bars green now.


----------



## Lurko (Apr 27, 2014)

Let's keep going guys


----------



## Freechoice (Apr 27, 2014)

FrozenFeathers said:


> Sort of makes me wonder who rep'd him.



I got rid of most of his red yesterday


----------



## DarkTorrent (Apr 27, 2014)

how nice of you


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 27, 2014)

Astral said:


> I just got Vicotex to green.


orly ?


----------



## DarkTorrent (Apr 27, 2014)

much better now


----------



## shade0180 (Apr 27, 2014)

Vicotex rep bar is like a rope for a tag of war.


----------



## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Apr 27, 2014)

Naruto top tiers stomp anybody below Toriko top tiers while Toriko top tiers stomp the entire Narutoverse. In retrospect, Sasuke wins this. Toriko wins by a fucking enormous margin in quality.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Apr 27, 2014)

Well I just rep vicotex and now he's a quarter of the way back to green, I thought your rep would be stronger flutter


----------



## Lurko (Apr 27, 2014)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> Naruto top tiers stomp anybody below Toriko top tiers while Toriko top tiers stomp the entire Narutoverse. In retrospect, Sasuke wins this. Toriko wins by a fucking enormous margin in quality.



With the way Sasuke and Naruto have just powered up they just might be able to take out a toriko top tier if they keep getting more powerups like that.


----------



## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Apr 27, 2014)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> With the way Sasuke and Naruto have just powered up they just might be able to take out a toriko top tier if they keep getting more powerups like that.



They'd have to far exceed Hagoromo and Kaguya for that as Toriko top tiers are planet level.


----------



## Vicotex (Apr 27, 2014)

DarkTorrent said:


> much better now


Your hatred is stronger than itachi's own 


Blackfeather Dragon said:


> Well I just rep vicotex and now he's a quarter of the way back to green, I thought your rep would be stronger flutter


Flutter never repped, he did the opposite


----------



## Lurko (Apr 27, 2014)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> They'd have to far exceed Hagoromo and Kaguya for that as Toriko top tiers are planet level.



Assuming Kaguya and Rs are all about strength and not hax and the show is called Naruto.


----------



## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Apr 27, 2014)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> Assuming Kaguya and Rs are all about strength and not hax and the show is called Naruto.



They'd better be hax beyond belief as Toriko has hax in spades.


----------



## Lurko (Apr 27, 2014)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> They'd better be hax beyond belief as Toriko has hax in spades.



Considering Limbo, Kamui,  and Sauce's new ability I'm plenty sure there will be some.


----------



## Vicotex (Apr 28, 2014)

Naruto will burst into that dimension with that kunai in his mouth


----------



## Lurko (Apr 28, 2014)

Vicotex said:


> Naruto will burst into that dimension with that kunai in his mouth



Wouldn't suprise me.


----------



## Alita (Apr 28, 2014)

Sasuke stomps. 

And in relation to god tiers in naruto though, I personally believe only people on the level of juubito or above should be considered god tier. Incomplete juubi forms should only be in top tier range at this point considering the massive gap in power between juubito and said forms. I'm even hesitant to some extent about putting juubito still in god tier range since madara seems to be on a whole other level compared to him since the gai fight.


----------



## Vicotex (Apr 28, 2014)

I agree with the dude above


----------



## FrozenFeathers (May 7, 2014)

Does it change the outcome now that Toriko has outright stated that he can just scare off beasts at LV 600?


----------



## Iwandesu (May 7, 2014)

FrozenFeathers said:


> Does it change the outcome now that Toriko has outright stated that he can just scare off beasts at LV 600?


What feats does these beasts have?


----------



## FrozenFeathers (May 7, 2014)

That is the problem.
Beasts at around level 250 were outright stated to destroy a continent(maybe a hyperbole).
Toriko's power inflation should give an Idea of DC, but then again there is no solid evidence.


----------



## Louis-954 (May 9, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> What feats does these beasts have?


The Mount Turtle (level 150ish) destroyed the Ice Hell continent by casually walking over it.


----------



## Iwandesu (May 9, 2014)

Louis-954 said:


> The Mount Turtle (level 150ish) destroyed the Ice Hell continent by casually walking over it.


The calc i know puts ice Hell continent at only country +-large country range,  though.  
Was this update?  If not, any god tier shit on it (even the weakest one).


----------



## Louis-954 (May 9, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> The calc i know puts ice Hell continent at only* country +-large country range*,  though.
> Was this update?  If not, any god tier shit on it (even the weakest one).


Keep in mind though that the a level 600 beast is 4 times as powerful. Toriko *can scare* beasts of that level into submission without even lifting a finger.


----------



## Iwandesu (May 9, 2014)

Louis-954 said:


> Keep in mind though that the a level 600 beast is *4 times *as powerful. Toriko *can scare* beasts of that level into submission without even lifting a finger.


Blatantly wrong( I'm not even half way in toriko and is pretty clear capture level is nowhere linear.)
Also, sasuke is casually 2 x 10^5 times, the Ice Hell feat.


----------



## Louis-954 (May 9, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> Blatantly wrong(* I'm not even half way in toriko and is pretty clear capture level is nowhere linear*.)
> Also, sasuke is casually 2 x 10^5 times, the Ice Hell feat.


That only helps my case since the 4 beast main body (Clvl 350) could seemingly easily smash the Mount Turtle many times over with ease.

And since when is Sasuke "2 x 10^5" the Ice Hell feat? I've never seen him smash a country or a continent or devastate an entire landscape with anything.


----------



## Iwandesu (May 9, 2014)

Louis-954 said:


> That only helps my case since the 4 beast main body (Clvl 350) could seemingly easily smash the Mount Turtle many times over with ease.
> 
> And since when is Sasuke "2 x 10^5" the Ice Hell feat? I've never seen him smash a country or a continent or devastate an entire landscape with anything.


The calc above your comment shows a character which sauce can easily get scaled too.  Casually doing a large continent+ feat which is 2x 10^5 ice Hell feat.
He doesn't have AOE but can easily beats the hell out  of standard exaton level characters.


----------



## MusubiKazesaru (May 9, 2014)

scaling based on capture levels is BS regardless


----------



## Louis-954 (May 9, 2014)

> The calc above your comment shows a character which sauce can easily get  scaled too.  Casually doing a large continent+ feat which is 2x 10^5  ice Hell feat.
> He doesn't have AOE but can easily beats the hell out  of standard exaton level characters.


That's really grasping... Sasuke doesn't have any nukes and he was left at deaths door by a single stab wound to the chest. Toriko's feats are superior to Sasuke's all across the board. As it stands right now he'd maul Sasuke.


----------



## MusubiKazesaru (May 9, 2014)

Louis-954 said:


> That's really grasping... Sasuke doesn't have any nukes and he was left at deaths door by a single stab wound to the chest. Toriko's feats are superior to Sasuke's all across the board. As it stands right now he'd maul Sasuke.



and that was prior to his recent powerup, now he's almost playing around with Juudara


----------



## Louis-954 (May 9, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> and that was prior to his recent powerup, now he's almost playing around with Juudara


He's shown two abilities... neither of which do much of anything to Toriko as it currently stands. Sasuke is a glass cannon who lacks the damage output to seriously injure Toriko. He's endured worse pre-ts.


----------



## MusubiKazesaru (May 9, 2014)

However Madara is > Toriko atm, why can't Sasuke do the same things to him that's he's doing to Madara?


----------



## Louis-954 (May 9, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> However Madara is > Toriko atm, why can't Sasuke do the same things to him that's he's doing to Madara?


Madara does not inherit the Juubi's durability just because he's its Jinchuuriki (evidence by the fact that Obito was damaged by a simple Sage Rasengan when he was the Jin). The attacks Toriko was taking from Starjun looked way more impressive than what Sasuke has hit Madara with and Toriko is leaps and bounds stronger than he was back then.


----------



## MusubiKazesaru (May 9, 2014)

The reason why the Rasengan was effective is because Juubito was weak to senjutsu, it doesn't add to Naruto's DC or take away from Juubito's Durability because of that. So far we have no way of quantifying how much stronger Toriko is


----------



## Iwandesu (May 9, 2014)

Louis-954 said:


> Madara does not inherit the Juubi's durability just because he's its Jinchuuriki (evidence by the fact that Obito was damaged by a simple Sage Rasengan when he was the Jin). The attacks Toriko was taking from Starjun looked way more impressive than what Sasuke has hit Madara with and Toriko is leaps and bounds stronger than he was back then.


Juubito has better durability than juubi due to casually standing up against hashi Gates,  which tanked juubi's juubidama. 
Juubito is an imcomplete jinchuuriki, thus a fooder to juudara which is a complete jinchuuriki with more bijjus inside he. 
current juudara is stronger than juudara which fought gai.
Sage rasengan is juubi weakness. 

Also,  sauce is faster and has insta-killing hax. There is no winning scenario for toriko, continent level or not,  while he is a 4 digit speedsters.


----------



## Louis-954 (May 9, 2014)

> Juubito has better durability than juubi due to casually standing up against hashi Gates,  which tanked juubi's juubidama.





> The reason why the Rasengan was  effective is because Juubito was weak to senjutsu, it doesn't add to  Naruto's DC or take away from Juubito's Durability because of that. So  far we have no way of quantifying how much stronger Toriko is


So what you're saying is that a simple Sage Rasengan would do more damage to the Juubi tan it did to Juubito? Just stop -_-

Jinchuuriki's are not as durable as their Bijuu. That much should be obvious.

Sasuke might has a bit of a speed advantage, but he's out classed in every other category from destructive capacity, to endurance, to durability.


----------



## MusubiKazesaru (May 9, 2014)

Louis-954 said:


> So what you're saying is that a simple Sage Rasengan would do more damage to the Juubi tan it did to Juubito? Just stop -_-
> 
> Jinchuuriki's are not as durable as their Bijuu. That much should be obvious.



Why is it obvious that Bijuu are more durable when any jinchuuriki who's worth anything is > their Bijuu? Please explain


----------



## LazyWaka (May 9, 2014)

We've been over this. Juubito physically ripped apart the restraints that tanked the Juubi's BB. That requires him to be more durable than them.

And cut the SM rasengan bullshit. Just before that he tanked an FRS amaterasu combination and was just fine.


----------



## Iwandesu (May 9, 2014)

Louis-954 said:


> So what you're saying is that a simple Sage Rasengan would do more damage to the Juubi tan it did to Juubito? Just stop -_-
> 
> Jinchuuriki's are not as durable as their Bijuu. That much should be obvious.
> 
> Sasuke might has a bit of a speed advantage, but he's out classed in every other category from destructive capacity, to endurance, to durability.



Keep your facts straight as waka,  mu and i already said he tanked way worse things.
Is like saiying supes can't tank a bullet cuz kriptonic put him down. 
A terrible argument.
The speed advantage was enough to fuck a at minimun exaton + character, toriko weak ass isn't saving him from an instant killing hax.


----------



## Louis-954 (May 9, 2014)

> Why is it obvious that Bijuu are more durable when any jinchuuriki who's worth anything is > their Bijuu? Please explain


Kyuubi tanked a Rasenshurkin and Cho Oodama Rasengan Barrage. Naruto would have been shredded by the first attack. And that was only half of the Kyuubi. Case in point.



> Keep your facts straight as waka,  mu and i already said he tanked way worse things.





> Is like saiying supes can't tank a bullet cuz kriptonic put him down.
> A terrible argument.


Strawman.



> The speed advantage was enough to fuck a at minimun exaton + character,  *toriko weak ass* isn't saving him from an instant killing hax.


What "insta-kill" hax? He hasn't shown anything that can put down current Toriko. Preskip Toriko? Maybe. But as it stands he's not doing anything to a Toriko who doesn't even need to lift a finger against clvl 600 beasts. He could probably intimidate Sasuke into shitting himself.


----------



## MusubiKazesaru (May 9, 2014)

Louis-954 said:


> Kyuubi tanked a Rasenshurkin and Cho Oodama Rasengan Barrage. Naruto would have been shredded by the first attack. And that was only half of the Kyuubi. Case in point.



Naruto at the time was fighting in SM at the time which is inferior to Kyuubi, however BM Naruto (which is below the current Naruto) is above Kyuubi as Sasuke is comparable to the current Naruto. You're taking different points of the series and using them as if they're all still relevant compared to more recent things


----------



## Louis-954 (May 9, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> Naruto at the time was fighting in SM at the time which is inferior to Kyuubi, however BM Naruto (which is below the current Naruto) is above Kyuubi as *Sasuke is comparable to the current Naruto.* You're taking different points of the series and using them as if they're all still relevant compared to more recent things


Not durability wise he ain't. He near died from a poke with a sword and there's no evidence to suggest that he's any more durable now than he was then. He gained a better eye, that's all.

Naruto isn't tanking his own Rasenshuriken now, either. It wouldn't have finished off pre-Juubi Madara (> BM Naruto) if he hadn't absorbed it with Preta path.


----------



## LineageCold (May 9, 2014)

The juubi jin is far superior in all aspects than the juubi itself (it was stated 3 times)

Juubi jin:



Juubi:




Juubi jin: (tanks it for a good amount of time before his truth seeking balls pushed it away)




Juubi: (cries like a bitch)



Juubi jin: (Tanks being hit by a senjutsu YRS without being cleaved in half)



Juubi: (Bm naruto eagle FRS cleaves juubi tails in half)




Juubi jin:


Juubi:


The reason why jewbito was harmed by a sage rasengan is well... duh (Senjutsu)


----------



## Louis-954 (May 9, 2014)

LineageCold said:


> The juubi jin is far superior in all aspects than the juubi itself (it was stated 3 times)
> 
> Juubi jin:
> 
> ...


Simple yes or no. Would the Sage Rasengan damage the Juubi to the same degree it damaged Obito?

If you say no, then the Bijuu itself is more durable than the Jinchuuriki.


----------



## Iwandesu (May 9, 2014)

Louis-954 said:


> Kyuubi tanked a Rasenshurkin and Cho Oodama Rasengan Barrage. Naruto would have been shredded by the first attack. And that was only half of the Kyuubi. Case in point.
> 
> Strawman.
> 
> What "insta-kill" hax? He hasn't shown anything that can put down current Toriko. Preskip Toriko? Maybe. But as it stands he's not doing anything to a Toriko who doesn't even need to lift a finger against clvl 600 beasts. He could probably intimidate Sasuke into shitting himself.


Nardo tanked way worst shit than frs. Do you even read the manga?
Sauce has spatial manipulation. He ignores durability and if he don't,  juudara still makes toriko a bitch and sauce cut through juudara.


----------



## Louis-954 (May 9, 2014)

> Nardo tanked way worst shit than frs. Do you even read the manga?


What has he tanked that destroys on a cellular level?



> Sauce has spatial manipulation. He ignores durability and if he don't,   juudara still makes toriko a bitch and sauce cut through juudara.


Sage Rasengan > Juubi Jin 
Toriko > Sage Rasengan
Toriko > Juubi Jin durability

Not hard to follow. Madara is warm butter whereas Toriko is steel.


----------



## Iwandesu (May 9, 2014)

Louis-954 said:


> What has he tanked that destroys on a cellular level?
> 
> 
> Sage Rasengan > Juubi Jin
> ...


Juubidama>>>>>> Bijjudama >>>>> sage rasengan
Juubito laughes of bijjudama and even juubidama,  his weakness is said to be senjutsu,  there is no senjutsu attack which will ever downplay his durability, you're either idiot or blind if can't see the obvious, the calcs,  statements, context, shown on panel,  and word of god are against what you're implying.


----------



## MusubiKazesaru (May 9, 2014)

Louis-954 said:


> Not durability wise he ain't. He near died from a poke with a sword and there's no evidence to suggest that he's any more durable now than he was then. He gained a better eye, that's all.
> 
> Naruto isn't tanking his own Rasenshuriken now, either. It wouldn't have finished off pre-Juubi Madara (> BM Naruto) if he hadn't absorbed it with Preta path.



you're thinking of Sasuke before his powerup, there's an absurd difference between then and now


----------



## Darth Niggatron (May 9, 2014)

Oh, and news flash, cellular destruction means a sum total of jackshit.
It doesn't bypass durability in any way.
Vaping>>>cellular destruction.


----------



## Louis-954 (May 9, 2014)

Wow, why are people here so rude? Disagreeing with me is one thing, but I don't recall flaming any of you. Taking my leave from this discussion. If anyone would like to continue a civil, rational discourse feel free to either PM or VM me, but I refuse to subject myself to further verbal abuse over a difference in opinion over interpretations of a fictional story.


----------



## LineageCold (May 9, 2014)

Louis-954 said:


> Wow, why are people here so rude? Disagreeing with me is one thing, but I don't recall flaming any of you. Taking my leave from this discussion. If anyone would like to continue a civil, rational discourse feel free to either PM or VM me, but I refuse to subject myself to further verbal abuse over a difference in opinion over interpretations of a fictional story.



Excuse me if I offended you. 


The fact why some are aggravated is because it seems you were missing the point that was provided to you numerous times.


Also, you shouldn't conceive ur debates because somebody raged/flamed at you. You gotta have tough skin in this place we call the OBD (also the internet in general)


----------



## shade0180 (May 9, 2014)

sasuke has the speed and hax to defeat and overwhelm Toriko for DC and Durability he is quite featless in his current form and his old showing is pretty weak......


----------



## tkpirate (May 9, 2014)

Louis-954 said:


> Simple yes or no. Would the Sage Rasengan damage the Juubi to the same degree it damaged Obito?
> 
> If you say no, then the Bijuu itself is more durable than the Jinchuuriki.



only Juubi jins have that senjutsu weakness.the Juubi dosen't have any weakness to senjutsu.


----------



## shade0180 (May 9, 2014)

Louis, Juubi jin is specifically mentioned in the manga to be weak to senjutsu skill, basically it ignores their defenses, The juubi doesn't have the same weakness as the Jin...


----------



## Lurko (May 10, 2014)

Toriko gets cleaved in two Louis or sword though brain or heart.


----------



## LightspeedLanza (May 11, 2014)

Sasuke (mountain level at best) is so vastly outmatched in physical stats that I don't know what to think of the OP. Is he a troll, or really this stupid?


----------



## tkpirate (May 11, 2014)

LightspeedLanza said:


> I don't know what to think of the OP. Is he a troll, or really this stupid?



no,it's you.Sasuke's attacks either ignore durability or they are strong enough to cut Toriko,because he can cut Madara.


----------



## Catalyst75 (May 11, 2014)

LazyWaka said:


> We've been over this. Juubito physically ripped apart the restraints that tanked the Juubi's BB. That requires him to be more durable than them.
> 
> And cut the SM rasengan bullshit. Just before that he tanked an FRS amaterasu combination and was just fine.



The point of the SM Rasengan was to show that the Juubi's Jinchuriki was vulnerable to attacks infused with Natural Energy - the very same energy that the Shinju is primarily composed of - while being immune to normal Ninjutsu *like the FRS Amaterasu combo*.  Hell, we even know that the Truth-Seeking Balls can even negate the explosive energy of Bijuu Dama, so who is to say the same isn't true for a Shinju Jinchuriki?

The Gate of the Great God - the restraints used to seal the Juubi's movements - are also Sage Art techniques, so it is expected they'd be able to withstand an explosion.  After all, *explosions do no concentrate all their energy into one place.*  Remember, most of the energy from the blast went *upward,* out through the barrier's open top.

That is the difference between the Seals restraining the Juubi and restraining one of its Jinchuriki - the Juubi's power is more focused than when it was a rampaging beast.  *THIS WAS OUTLINED IN THE MANGA.*

The same is true for the Juubi Jin's vulnerability to Natural Energy-based techniques - normal Chakra-based techniques either have no effect or are completely negated (including Bijuu Dama) but a Natural Energy-based technique and physical attacks can affect them normally.  

After all, Obito wrapped the Truth-Seeking Balls around himself in a shield to protect him from the simultaneous detonation of four Juubi-level Bijuu Dama and there was not a scratch on them.  Fast forward to when Naruto fires a Natural Energy-enhanced Bijuu Dama at Obito - one nowhere close in size to the one he used to counter the combined Bijuu Dama of five Bijuu - the Truth-seeking Ball is broken.  

Regardless of what you probably want to believe, it is likely not a simple matter of durability.  A Jinchuriki of the Juubi can naturally *nullify and negate* normal Ninjutsu in Naruto, but cannot do the same for Natural Energy-enhanced techniques.  

I do not think durability can apply if one of your powers involves negating a certain type of energy at any level.



tkpirate said:


> no,it's you.Sasuke's attacks either ignore durability or they are strong enough to cut Toriko,because he can cut Madara.



The alternative is Sasuke's attacks are now infused with Natural Energy.  We know Hagoromo gave half his Chakra to both Sasuke and Naruto, so it isn't a stretch to conclude Sasuke's Chidori was infused with Natural Energy - we know the Juubi's Jinchuriki can only be harmed by Senjutsu-based techniques.


----------



## Iwandesu (May 11, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> The point of the SM Rasengan was to show that the Juubi's Jinchuriki was vulnerable to attacks infused with Natural Energy - the very same energy that the Shinju is primarily composed of - while being immune to normal Ninjutsu *like the FRS Amaterasu combo*.  Hell, we even know that the Truth-Seeking Balls can even negate the explosive energy of Bijuu Dama, so who is to say the same isn't true for a Shinju Jinchuriki?
> 
> The Gate of the Great God - the restraints used to seal the Juubi's movements - are also Sage Art techniques, so it is expected they'd be able to withstand an explosion.  After all, *explosions do no concentrate all their energy into one place.*  Remember, most of the energy from the blast went *upward,* out through the barrier's open top.
> 
> ...


....
Gai, broke the barrier.
Juubi was affected by alliance non-senjutsu jutsus,  he just didn't got harmed. 
By your reasoning juubi clones would too be immune.  They aren't.
Also you're especulating something you can't prove. Rinnegan doesn't give you senjutsu despite being one of sage powers.


----------



## LineageCold (May 11, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> yup, i wasted my time.





I'm not going to give you a serious reply for obvious reasons.


Mostly everything you wrote were "literally" baseless assumptions .


All in all, you wasted ur time conjuring up that dreadful attempt of a post.



@wandusu. guy breaking the Truth seeking barrier with physical strength would only give him teratons (truth seeking barrier negates ninjutsu,including a Bb) Gai is getting his Exaton + from damaging madara.


*Spoiler*: __ 



@Cata 

Also, don't quote/reply to me 


I will most likely won't give you a proper reply for obvious reasons


----------



## Lurko (May 11, 2014)

Cata man you don't know what your talking about


----------



## Iwandesu (May 11, 2014)

LineageCold said:


> I'm not going to give you a serious reply for obvious reasons.
> 
> 
> Mostly everything you wrote were "literally" baseless assumptions .
> ...


I know this. , thanks anyway
Was just showing That you don't need senjutsu to hurt them. Mad example is even better,  though.
When you think about it, even sharingan and Byakugan are part of kagura powers
There is no linking between sauce powerup and senjutsu until proved otherwise


----------



## Lurko (May 11, 2014)

Madara might not even have have that much of a weakness to senjustu due to having Sage mode Hashi head on him :/


----------



## LineageCold (May 11, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> I know this. , thanks anyway
> Was just showing That you don't need senjutsu to hurt them. Mad example is even better,  though.
> When you think about it, even sharingan and Byakugan are part of kagura powers
> There is no linking between sauce powerup and senjutsu until proved otherwise



Yup.

Also I feel quite blind for missing this. (Although sauce & nardo are scaled to the Mach 20k+)

In previous chapter madara used a lighting storm thingy (which I was told by a reliable source that it was in fact real "lighting" )

Similar lighting design to juubi Tenpanchi 




Madara senpo lighting 



( nardo cross a few meters before it can reach to his previous position)



Although it's not impressive by current naurto standards. Its still pretty neat.


----------



## Iwandesu (May 11, 2014)

LineageCold said:


> Yup.
> 
> Also I feel quite blind for missing this. (Although sauce & nardo are scaled to the Mach 20k+)
> 
> ...


He had distance so it likely,  doesn't upgrade but yeah it is solid.
Though I'm pretty sure lighting doesn't move at lightspeed unless is clean without branches


----------



## MusubiKazesaru (May 11, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> He had distance so it likely,  doesn't upgrade but yeah it is solid.
> Though I'm pretty sure lighting doesn't move at lightspeed unless is clean without branches



why would lightning be lightspeed?


----------



## Iwandesu (May 11, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> why would lightning be lightspeed?


I though he was implying it was 
And answered it wasn't. (Mind that clean lightening doesn't actually exist out here)
Actually this could be Interesting depending of who could dodge it.


----------



## LineageCold (May 11, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> I though he was implying it was
> And answered it wasn't. (Mind that clean lightening doesn't actually exist out here)



Opps typo.

I meant "lightning". I might be getting stuff mixed up (I really am confused)

I was checking out a few articles on how fast does lightning bolt/strike travels. And I saw some low & high end results.


&





Mach 14k-mach 50k


*Spoiler*: __ 



Please forgive me.

I might be confusing lightning strike/bolts to madara lighting 

I need to do some research

Nvm. Forget the shit that I just posted .


----------



## Iwandesu (May 11, 2014)

LineageCold said:


> Opps typo.
> 
> I meant "lightning". I might be getting stuff mixed up (I really am confused)
> 
> ...


No problem, bro 
Mach 50k will be amazing if someone dodge madara beam from point in blank.


----------



## tkpirate (May 11, 2014)

@Catalyst75, Sasuke dosen't have senjutsu.and even Naruto's YRS failed to cut Madara.


----------



## Foxve (May 11, 2014)

When did Sasuke show the ability to transport objects into a person?


----------



## LineageCold (May 11, 2014)

Foxve said:


> When did Sasuke show the ability to transport objects into a person?






In my opinion, I don't think he is teleporting objects into people, but rather some reality warp genjutsu. (Although its strongly hinted towards telegraphing)


My rep now please


----------



## Lurko (May 11, 2014)

Regardless Sasuke will win.


----------



## Foxve (May 11, 2014)

LineageCold said:


> In my opinion, I don't think he is teleporting objects into people, but rather some reality warp genjutsu. (Although its strongly hinted towards telegraphing)
> 
> 
> My rep now please



Looks more like he threw his sword at juudara then teleported next to naruto....


----------



## LineageCold (May 11, 2014)

Foxve said:


> Looks more like he threw his sword at juudara then teleported next to naruto....




(Look at the panel where nardo is, you can see his sword. )


As far as I can remember, sauce only has one sword.

It seems madara teleported where sauce previously was. It also look like his sword switched place as well


----------



## BashFace (May 11, 2014)

Toriko would smash Sausages asshole until evidence is given otherwise.

Toriko would slap Sausage in his silly face.


----------



## Lurko (May 12, 2014)

BashFace said:


> Toriko would smash Sausages asshole until evidence is given otherwise.
> 
> Toriko would slap Sausage in his silly face.



Please stfu please!


----------



## 1Person (May 12, 2014)

LineageCold said:


> In my opinion, I don't think he is teleporting objects into people, but rather some reality warp genjutsu.l



How is that any different?


----------



## Catalyst75 (May 12, 2014)

tkpirate said:


> you don't know what you're talking about,Hagoromo's chakra isn't senjutsu chakra.with RS's chakra you get Rinnegan.it would mean Sasuke's cut was stronger than Madara's durability.YRS failed to cut Madara in half,though it was Senjutsu.



Senjutsu enhances the natural durability of the user's body - it is one of the reasons Madara lasted so long against Gai - and it stands to reason the Juubi/Shinju's host would receive a similar benefit, but I believe it is not to the extreme people have been assuming - and I feel people have been assuming a lot about Naruto as of late... 

In regards to Sasuke, it was firmly established that Senjutsu is the only one of two ways you can assuredly harm a host of the Juubi - the other being pure physical attacks.  It wouldn't make sense if Sasuke did not have Natural Energy infused in his attacks because of Hagoromo's Chakra, yet could still hurt Madara in violation of that rule.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But this is not the point of the thread, is it?

Given what we have seen Toriko capable of in the past - and the fact he's much stronger now - I do not believe Sasuke stands a chance against him, even with his new Rinnegan.  Toriko has simply shown himself to be at too high a level for Sasuke to deal with effectively.


----------



## MusubiKazesaru (May 12, 2014)

It's not impossible for Toriko to deal with Sasuke depending on however strong he is, however as it currently stands Sasuke's recent feats are better than Toriko's


----------



## tkpirate (May 12, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> Senjutsu enhances the natural durability of the user's body - it is one of the reasons Madara lasted so long against Gai - and it stands to reason the Juubi/Shinju's host would receive a similar benefit, but I believe it is not to the extreme people have been assuming - and I feel people have been assuming a lot about Naruto as of late...
> In regards to Sasuke, it was firmly established that Senjutsu is the only one of two ways you can assuredly harm a host of the Juubi - the other being pure physical attacks.  It wouldn't make sense if Sasuke did not have Natural Energy infused in his attacks because of Hagoromo's Chakra, yet could still hurt Madara in violation of that rule.


what assumptions are you talking about?what you don't understand is that Onmyouton erases everything otherthan senjutsu.Madara dosen't have Onmyouton anymore.your attacks can work on Madara,if it's stronger than his physical durability.though senjutsu probably will have better effect.


----------



## LazyWaka (May 12, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> The point of the SM Rasengan was to show that the Juubi's Jinchuriki was vulnerable to attacks infused with Natural Energy - the very same energy that the Shinju is primarily composed of - while being immune to normal Ninjutsu *like the FRS Amaterasu combo*.  Hell, we even know that the Truth-Seeking Balls can even negate the explosive energy of Bijuu Dama, so who is to say the same isn't true for a Shinju Jinchuriki?



The Juubi jin is not immune to normal ninjutsu. His onymouton spheres are the only things stated to do such a thing.



Catalyst75 said:


> The Gate of the Great God - the restraints used to seal the Juubi's movements - are also Sage Art techniques, so it is expected they'd be able to withstand an explosion.  After all, *explosions do no concentrate all their energy into one place.*  Remember, most of the energy from the blast went *upward,* out through the barrier's open top.



It doesn't matter. The Juubi, which can comfortably swallow it's own exaton BB, was noticeably beat up from said blast. The restraints holding him are just fine.



Catalyst75 said:


> The same is true for the Juubi Jin's vulnerability to Natural Energy-based techniques - normal Chakra-based techniques either have no effect or are completely negated (including Bijuu Dama) but a Natural Energy-based technique and physical attacks can affect them normally.



Again, the only thing that negates are the onymouton spheres. It's made really fucking obvious when Obito needed to use those to get rid of Amaterasu.



LineageCold said:


> Yup.
> 
> Also I feel quite blind for missing this. (Although sauce & nardo are scaled to the Mach 20k+)
> 
> ...



I don't know if we'd roll with that regardless. I mean, we didn't use meteor speeds for Gremmy's reality warped meteor. Would be kinda hypocritical to roll with it here.



tkpirate said:


> @Catalyst75, Sasuke dosen't have senjutsu.and even Naruto's YRS failed to cut Madara.



He does. It's just not passive like Naruto's.



Catalyst75 said:


> yet Sasuke could still bisect Madara.



With his sword which had no indication of chakra enhancement behind it.

Even if it did, it would still require his slash to be > YRS.


----------



## tkpirate (May 12, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> But this is not the point of the thread, is it?
> 
> Given what we have seen Toriko capable of in the past - and the fact he's much stronger now - I do not believe Sasuke stands a chance against him,


well,Sasuke was able to cut Madara who have exaton durability,so i don't see why he wouldn't be able to do the same here.



LazyWaka said:


> He does. It's just not passive like Naruto's.



i don't really understand what you're talking about.and how strong are Sasuke's cuts?


----------



## Catalyst75 (May 12, 2014)

LazyWaka said:


> The Juubi jin is not immune to normal ninjutsu. His onymouton spheres are the only things stated to do such a thing.





> Again, the only thing that negates are the onymouton spheres. It's made really fucking obvious when Obito needed to use those to get rid of Amaterasu.



Look back at chapter 642:

mina: we cannot be touched by those black spheres made of transformed chakra… *and even if we hit him, our attacks don’t work…*\\ he is fast both in attack and defence…\\

The entire chapter was dedicated to establishing that one fact - *Ninjutsu will not work against a Juubi Jinchuriki, but Senjutsu can.*  When Obito was hit by the FRS-Amaterasu combo, there wasn't even a scratch on him when the Truth-Seeking Balls erased the Amaterasu flames.  



> With his sword which had no indication of chakra enhancement behind it.





Look a bit closer.  That's not Sasuke's sword; it the Sage Chakra-enhanced black Chidori shaped to look like a sword.



> Even if it did, it would still require his slash to be > YRS



Naruto was only using his normal Kurama-Sage Mode (and Son's Chakra) at that point.  He was not in Six Paths Sage Mode.  There's a distinct difference between attacks enhanced by Hagoromo's Chakra, and those that aren't.  The black Chidori utilizes Six Paths' Chakra.


----------



## LazyWaka (May 12, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> Look back at chapter 642:
> 
> mina: we cannot be touched by those black spheres made of transformed chakra… *and even if we hit him, our attacks don’t work…*\\ he is fast both in attack and defence…\\



Hmm, could that be because of his fucking onymouton spheres fucking shit up like they did when they nailed him with the FRS amaterasu combo?



Catalyst75 said:


> The entire chapter was dedicated to establishing that one fact - *Ninjutsu will not work against a Juubi Jinchuriki, but Senjutsu can.*  When Obito was hit by the FRS-Amaterasu combo, there wasn't even a scratch on him when the Truth-Seeking Balls erased the Amaterasu flames.





Those singe marks on his stomach where they hit him must just be my imagination then. 

You're also missing the point that he still needed the Onymouton spheres to negate the technique.



Catalyst75 said:


> Look a bit closer.  That's not Sasuke's sword; it the Sage Chakra-enhanced black Chidori shaped to look like a sword.



Whoops, my bad. 



Catalyst75 said:


> Naruto was only using his normal Kurama-Sage Mode (and Son's Chakra) at that point.  He was not in Six Paths Sage Mode.



And this makes a difference, why, exactly?


----------



## tkpirate (May 12, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> mina: we cannot be touched by those black spheres made of transformed chakra? *and even if we hit him, our attacks don?t work?*\\ he is fast both in attack and defence?\\
> 
> The entire chapter was dedicated to establishing that one fact - *Ninjutsu will not work against a Juubi Jinchuriki, but Senjutsu can.*  When Obito was hit by the FRS-Amaterasu combo, there wasn't even a scratch on him when the Truth-Seeking Balls erased the Amaterasu flames.
> 
> .



again,only Onmyouton erases stuff,and Juubi jins have exaton durability.really it shouldn't so hard to understand.


----------



## Catalyst75 (May 12, 2014)

tkpirate said:


> again,only Onmyouton erases stuff,and Juubi jins have exaton durability.really it shouldn't so hard to understand.



A *normal Sage Mode Naruto's* Rasengan would be exaton level if that were the case, but it isn't.  The Juubi Jin's one weakness is Senjutsu techniques; there wouldn't be such an emphasis on that fact if normal Ninjutsu could affect them.


----------



## LazyWaka (May 12, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> A *normal Sage Mode Naruto's* Rasengan would be exaton level if that were the case, but it isn't.  The Juubi Jin's one weakness is Senjutsu techniques; there wouldn't be such an emphasis on that fact if normal Ninjutsu could affect them.



Wait, what are you trying to get at? We already know that they are weak to Senjutsu.


----------



## Darth Niggatron (May 12, 2014)

Onmyoton: Erases all non-senjutsu ninjutsu attacks.
Juubi Jin: Weak to senjutsu attacks, but can be hurt by any attack.
How hard is that to understand?


----------



## tkpirate (May 12, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> A *normal Sage Mode Naruto's* Rasengan would be exaton level if that were the case, but it isn't.  The Juubi Jin's one weakness is Senjutsu techniques; there wouldn't be such an emphasis on that fact if normal Ninjutsu could affect them.



what,i'm sure you know that senjutsu is Juubi jins weakness,right?obviously it dosen't need to be in exatons.but other attacks do.we have told you many times that Ninjutsu dosen't work only because Juubi jins can erase them with Onmyouton.Madara dosen't have Onmyouton anymore.Minato stole his balls.still i don't understand what you don't understand.


----------



## LazyWaka (May 12, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> Emphasis has been placed on only Taijutsu or Senjutsu being effective against a Juubi Jinchuriki.
> 
> Normal Ninjutsu doesn't work against a Juubi Jinchuriki *because the immunity to Ninjutsu isn't restricted to the Truth Balls*; it is an aspect of their physical bodies as well.



Yes it is. Again, Juubito physically ripped apart restraints that tanked an attack that visibly bruised the Juubi. That requires him to be more durable than them.


----------



## tkpirate (May 12, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> Emphasis has been placed on only Taijutsu or Senjutsu being effective against a Juubi Jinchuriki.
> 
> Normal Ninjutsu doesn't work against a Juubi Jinchuriki because the immunity to Ninjutsu isn't restricted to the Truth Balls; it is an aspect of their physical bodies as well.



that emphasis was placed because Juubi jins had Onmyouton balls.which can erase ninjutsu.the second part is just fanfiction.or you could provide some proof.


----------



## tkpirate (May 12, 2014)

[





Catalyst75 said:


> Needed them to negate it, yes.  Needed them to survive it, no, and it wasn't an issue of durability.
> Even though it was an Amaterasu amped by a powerful Wind Release technique, the firestorm he was enveloped in had no effect on him whatsoever.
> .



again that attack wasn't senjutsu,Juubi jins have exaton durability against attacks that aren't senjutsu.though it was burning him slowly,and he needed to negate it with his Onmyouton balls.Onmyouton can negate ninjutsu,Juubi jins body can't do that.i'm sure you still don't understand.


----------



## batman22wins (May 12, 2014)

Whats Sasuke cutting power at know since he cut something a RS couldn't and the RS was massively powered up.


----------



## Foxve (May 12, 2014)

Why can't madara just make more truth balls again? Is it plot? Like how sasuke could win this entire war just by teleporting his sword through madara's head?


----------



## shade0180 (May 12, 2014)

Er putting a sword inside a juubi jins body or head shouldn't really kill them though, Juubito blasted half his head + half his whole body earlier in the war arc and He didn't die..


----------



## LineageCold (May 12, 2014)

batman22wins said:


> Whats Sasuke cutting power at know since he cut something a RS couldn't and the RS was massively powered up.



Large Planet + .


----------



## shade0180 (May 12, 2014)

What large planet+, where the fuck are you getting those? , 

Only one getting those large planet scaling if ever (That calc was a joke from flutter not even sure if it was legit) is RS, RS mother, That Ancient Juubi, and The current Tree powered Madara.. Not the one Nardo and Sauce overwhelm that one is still scaled to Exatons or Planetoid/moon level...


----------



## LazyWaka (May 12, 2014)

shade0180 said:


> What large planet+, where the fuck are you getting those? ,
> 
> Only one getting those large planet scaling if ever (That calc was a joke from flutter not even sure if it was legit) is RS, RS mother, That Ancient Juubi, and The current Tree powered Madara.. Not the one Nardo and Sauce overwhelm that one is still scaled to Exatons or Planetoid/moon level...



He was obviously joking. 

Also there is no large planet level calc. The highest one in the series is small planet level for RS moon feat.


----------

