# Adult Sasuke vs JJ Madara



## blk (Oct 15, 2020)

This 3 eyed Madara.... Adult Sasuke is adult Sasuke.. 

Location: Isshiki vs Fate Bros & Boruto
Distance: 30m
Mindset: IC
Knowledge: manga

Has Sasuke become the strongest Uchiha in history...? Or is he still below the legendary Founder...? 

Let the shit show begin

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 15, 2020)

Sasuke beats the piss out of him 

BFR to circumvent "hurr durr immortality" 

Hes faster, stronger and has the durability to literally stand there and let Madara hit him and take no damage due to him having superior feats than a Rikudo PS per the Jigen/Isshiki fights

Mugen is a joke, Limbos are a joke that Sasuke can match and overpower with his own KBs in a 2 to 1 ratio at minimum, Madara is helpless against ameno even with intel as shown repeatedly

Nothing madara can do here

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 15, 2020)

The only people youll see claim Madara wins this are the same people who think TL isnt canon, people who think the moon is smaller than a country, people who think* Rinnegan *Sasuke or *Rikudo* Sage Mode Naruto currently dont have any six paths power OR people who claim the Yin/Yang seals didnt amp Naruto and Sasuke AT ALL in terms of stats in the first place

And/or folks who think Madara is unironically stronger than Kaguya in general despite the ocean of feats and statements to the contrary 

So I mean...

They are worthless and really not worth listening to on every front

Reactions: Like 8


----------



## Djomla (Oct 15, 2020)

GODDAMMIT WHERE MY CHAKRA GONE?


----------



## dergeist (Oct 15, 2020)

It's like @blk is struggling to accept Adult Jobbersuke is below early WA KCM level Naruto. And has cannonically been shown to be around or slighlty above the low Kage Gokage


----------



## Raiken (Oct 15, 2020)

Sasuke alone is literal trash compared to Prime Juudara.


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 15, 2020)

Cryorex said:


> Sasuke alone is literal trash compared to Prime Juudara.


Remember when you used to scale post war Sasuke below Juubito?

Yeah your opinion on Sasuke vs JJs isnt at all skewed now is it bruh?

Cant wait for him to not answer me at all in this thread either

Just rate and run


----------



## Soldierofficial (Oct 15, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Remember when you used to scale post war Sasuke below Juubito?



I'm sure he still thinks that, since a few days ago he said that Juubito = Fused Momoshiki.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 15, 2020)

Soldierofficial said:


> I'm sure he still thinks that, since a few days ago he said that Juubito = Fused Momoshiki.


----------



## Raiken (Oct 15, 2020)

Not my fault Momoshiki in all forms has been shown to be absolute garbage.


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 15, 2020)

Cryorex said:


> Not my fault Momoshiki in all forms has been shown to be absolute garbage.


No its your fault you have a shit grasp of all things in this series tho

Considering youre really gonna sit there and claim the guy whos physically superior to RSM Hokage Naruto has bad feats

When Naruto overpowered a moon beam AND can block Rikudo avatar busting Taijutsu hits

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Abyssdarkfire (Oct 15, 2020)

On Paper Adult Sasuke should win, by the way he is portrayed in Boruto anime and manga he doesn't beat Blind SM Madera.


----------



## Sage King (Oct 15, 2020)

Juudara slaughter.
He cannot be defeated by Someone Ishikki thought Boro could take in a fight


----------



## JayK (Oct 15, 2020)

Why do people even bother talking to a guy who thinks Movie and Anime Momoshiki are completely different in power.

It should be obvious he has not even read/watched any content related to this fight.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Raiken (Oct 15, 2020)

JayK said:


> Why do people even bother talking to a guy who thinks Movie and Anime Momoshiki are completely different in power.
> 
> It should be obvious he has not even read/watched any content related to this fight.


Why do people bother talking to your dumb ass who actually thinks a guy Boro should have had a chance against would spank Juudara.

What a fucking joke, just like Adult Sasuke is a joke.


----------



## MYGod000 (Oct 15, 2020)

Madara wins in a curbstomp...I just find it funny in 2020 people just disregard canon more and more for Head canon.

 Nothing in Sasuke arsenal can Stop This Madara.


----------



## Onda Vital (Oct 15, 2020)

If you nitpick Sasuke's best feats (which fatebros wankers always do while ignoring all other feats) then you can make an argument for Sasuke wining.

But you can as well nitpick low end feats (jobbing to Fushin, jobbing to Shin, jobbing to Urashiki, jobbing to Kinshiki who jobs to Chojuro etc) and make an argument that Madara wins.

Boruto powerscaling


----------



## MYGod000 (Oct 15, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> No its your fault you have a shit grasp of all things in this series tho
> 
> Considering youre really gonna sit there and claim the guy whos physically superior to RSM Hokage Naruto has bad feats
> 
> *When Naruto overpowered a moon beam *AND can block Rikudo avatar busting Taijutsu hits





Momoshiki  wasn't superior to RSM Hokage Naruto. 


Momoshiki was Down to Half of the 9 tails powers...Naruto still spanked him in Taijutsu right after that in both iterations of the anime and Manga. 


That Moon Beam he Overpowered was something He did _*Many years *_before he was Hokage. That moon feat isn't applicable to Hokage Naruto Because he did it long Before he was Hokage.


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 15, 2020)

Cryorex said:


> a guy Boro should have had a chance against


He thinks Boro could have dealt with a dead on his feet Sasuke who just got his ass beat by Jigen

Sasuke isnt weaker than Borutos fucking genin team even if you and your dumbass headcanon were right in believing that the fucker with Hagoromos Rinnegan doesnt have a Six Paths amp anymore

Even limiting him to his EMS feats hed ragdoll Boro

Stop playing dumb


----------



## T-Bag (Oct 15, 2020)

he can't seal madara on his own. CANON

MAdara wins by default.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 15, 2020)

MYGod000 said:


> Momoshiki wasn't superior to RSM Hokage Naruto.


He sure was bud


MYGod000 said:


> Momoshiki was Down to Half of the 9 tails powers


Do you think Naruto needs over 50% of his chakra to fight at full power??

Fucking lolworthy 


MYGod000 said:


> That Moon Beam he Overpowered was something He did _*Many years *_before he was Hokage. That moon feat isn't applicable to Hokage Naruto Because he did it long Before he was Hokage.


Beyond stupid logic as Hokage Naruto is stronger than TL Naruto bud

This is like saying Hokage Naruto doesnt scale to Mitsuki fight Narutos clone spam


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 15, 2020)

T-Bag said:


> he can't seal madara on his own. CANON
> 
> MAdara wins by default.


BFR gg troll


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 15, 2020)

The "hurr durr Sasuke low end" arguments are also beyond retarded and hypocritical 

As if Madara didnt have shit showings against 7G Gai, 6G Lee and Black motherfucking Zetsu didnt ONESHOT his ass 

If we stuck to low ends only when scaling every character then any character would beat literally any other character

As even god tiers could be scaled to fucking pre Boruto Chojuro tier or Base Rock lee level


----------



## MYGod000 (Oct 15, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> He sure was bud
> 
> Do you think Naruto needs over 50% of his chakra to fight at full power??
> 
> ...




what's More Lol worthy is you lying trying to Convince people that Hokage Naruto( with no Feats)> TL Naruto.  You Trying to Preach Feats> Statements but can't even follow your own Code.  I just had to Correct you here, That Hokage Naruto is even Stated to be dull and Rusty in Combat,  all the Stuff you be capping you think I'll ever look the other way and show you remorse? 

 I know why you Mad...because Boruto turned you into Hypocrite.


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 15, 2020)

MYGod000 said:


> what's More Lol worthy is you lying


Plz do point out what specifically Im being untruthful about sweetheart 


MYGod000 said:


> trying to Convince people that Hokage Naruto( with no Feats)> TL Naruto


So you think Base TL Naruto is stronger than a full Biju cloak + Six Paths Senjutsu amped Hokage Naruto?

On the basis that he "has no feats" when thats literally the most asinine thing you could say about a dude who has fights across like 4 fucking series and mediums now?

Wow

Thats some special thinkin right there 


MYGod000 said:


> You Trying to Preach Feats> Statements but can't even follow your own Code


Hokage Naruto taking hits that oneshot Rikudo avatars is a feat that puts him pretty decidedly above TL Naruto bud

So Im "following my code" just fine 


MYGod000 said:


> Hokage Naruto is even Stated to be dull and Rusty in Combat


In Gaiden

He visibly improves by the film as its like a year+ later and his feats more than speak for themselves 


MYGod000 said:


> I know why you Mad


Im not mad

Im tired of folks like you not conceding that Madara is a shit tier character with massively outdated feats despite us having this discussion like once a month 


MYGod000 said:


> Boruto turned you into Hypocrite


No actually Boruto gave Naruto and Sasuke absurd scaling that makes this thread even less of a debate 

Nice try tho


----------



## MYGod000 (Oct 15, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Plz do point out what specifically Im being untruthful about sweetheart
> 
> So you think Base TL Naruto is stronger than a full Biju cloak + Six Paths Senjutsu amped Hokage Naruto?
> 
> ...




You're being untruthful About These "feats"  for Hokage Naruto that eclipse TL Naruto.  Otherwise you would be Posting them instead of Post Feats From Naruto when he wasn't even Hokage.

Every time People Ask you for these "Absurd" feats you went Ghost like Danny phantom. You need to Take *"Strongest" *out of your Name.  Please you should take Heed Hokage Naruto has no outstanding Feats.

Otherwise Post them and Stop Wasting time. You said Madara has Outdated Feats but...what does that say about your Debating Skills?  Were using outdated feats for Madara, and you still can't Get over.  Madara has Outdated feats, and Hokage Naruto Barely has any Feats.


----------



## Serene Grace (Oct 15, 2020)

Madara wins. Better dojutsu and superior chakra.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Perfect Susano (Oct 15, 2020)

Sasuke can't touch Madara's Limbo due to lacking Six Paths Sage chakra. Madara stands on a rock like he did against the 5 Kage and watches Limbo knock Sasuke around until he gets bored.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Danisor (Oct 15, 2020)

Is there a character that could even possibly EVEN TOUCH Madara Uchiha? Let alone defeat him. And I'm not talking about Edo Tensei Uchiha Madara. I'm not talking about Gedou Rinne Tensei Uchiha Madara either. Hell, I'm not even talking about Juubi Jinchuuriki Gedou Rinne Tensei Uchiha Madara with the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan and Rinnegan doujutsus (with the rikodou abilities and being capable of both Amateratsu and Tsukuyomi genjutsu), equipped with his Gunbai, a perfect Susano'o, control of the juubi and Gedou Mazou, with Hashirama Senju's DNA implanted in him so he has mokuton kekkei genkai and can perform yin yang release ninjutsu while being an expert in kenjutsu and taijutsu. I’m also not talking about Kono Yo no Kyūseishu Futarime no Rikudō Juubi Jinchuuriki Gedou Rinne Tensei Uchiha Madara with the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan (which is capable of Enton Amaterasu, Izanagi, Izanami and the Tsyukuyomi Genjutsu), his two original Rinnegan (which grant him Chikushōdō, Shuradō, Tendō, Ningendō, Jigokudō, Gakidō, Gedō, Banshō Ten’in, Chibaku Tensei, Shinra Tensei, Tengai Shinsei and Banbutsu Sōzō) and a third Tomoe Rinnegan on his forehead, capable of using Katon, Fūton, Raiton, Doton, Suiton, Mokuton, Ranton, Inton, Yōton and even Onmyōton Jutsu, equipped with his Gunbai(capable of using Uchihagaeshi) and a Shakujō because he is a master in kenjutsu and taijutsu, a perfect Susano’o (that can use Yasaka no Magatama ), control of both the Juubi and the Gedou Mazou, with Hashirama Senju’s DNA and face implanted on his chest, his four Rinbo Hengoku Clones guarding him and nine Gudōdama floating behind him AFTER he absorbed Senjutsu from the First Hokage, entered Rikudō Senjutsu Mode, cast Mugen Tsukuyomi on everybody and used Shin: Jukai Kōtan so he can use their Chakra while they are under Genjutsu. I'm definitely NOT Talking about sagemode sage of the six paths Juubi Jinchuuriki Gedou Rinne Tensei Super Saiyan 4 Uchiha Madara with the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan, Rinnegan, Mystic Eyes of Death Perception, and Geass doujutsus, equipped with Shining Trapezohedron while casting Super Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann as his Susanoo, controlling the Gold Experience Requiem stand, having become the original vampire after Alucard, able to tap into the speedforce, wearing the Kamen Rider Black RX suit and Gedou Mazou, with Hashirama Senju's DNA implanted in him so he has mokuton kekkei genkai and can perform yin yang release ninjutsu while being an expert in kenjutsu and taijutsu and having eaten Popeye's spinach. I'm talking about sagemode sage of the six paths Juubi Jinchuuriki Gedou Rinne Tensei Legendary Super Saiyan 4 Uchiha Madara with the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan, Rinnegan, Mystic Eyes of Death Perception, and Geass doujutsus, equipped with his Shining Trapezohedron while casting Super Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann as his Susanoo, controlling the Gold Experience Requiem stand, having become the original vampire after having absorbed Alucard as well as a God Hand, able to tap into the speedforce, wearing the Kamen Rider Black RX suit, with Kryptonian DNA implanted in him and having eaten Popeye's spinach while possessing quantum powers like Dr. Manhattan and having mastered Hokuto Shinken.


----------



## ThirdRidoku (Oct 15, 2020)

Juudara downplay is out of control


This matchup is one-sided. With Hokage Naruto backing up Adult Sasuke, now have a fight


----------



## Raiken (Oct 15, 2020)

ThirdRidoku said:


> Juudara downplay is out of control


Tell me about it.


----------



## Personthing (Oct 15, 2020)

JJ Madara is likely stronger, though we won't know for sure until we know how exactly Isshiki scales to post-fruit/pre-fruit Kaguya.

TL Naruto beating Toneri's moon-busting beam _is_ a far better feat than anything JJ Madara has, but the problem is that if we scale God-tiers by visual impressiveness/calcs there's nothing indicating that Adult Sasuke is anywhere _near_ as strong as even his WA self, yet alone Toneri and TL Naruto. Thus, if we only scale by feats (since we have no clear statements indicating how strong the Adult Sasuke/Naruto are in comparison to their WA selves) we get a scaling that goes Adult Sasuke < JJ Madara < Toneri < TL Naruto. Now, you might of course find the idea that Naruto/Sasuke got stronger in The Last and then weaker in Boruto stupid (I do), but I don't see anything that actually clearly contradicts this in the manga. I personally find the idea of Adult Naruto/Boruto somehow individually becoming stronger than their very source of power (Hagoromo) kinda stupid as well, even though there's nothing that clearly contradicts it.

Given the fact that the visual impressiveness/scale of fights varies quite a lot between Naruto/The Last/Boruto (with Boruto<<Naruto<<The Last), I don't think using visual feats/calcs can be used to judge the strength cap between characters appearing in different parts of the franchise.


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 16, 2020)

ThirdRidoku said:


> Juudara downplay is out of control





Cryorex said:


> Tell me about it.


They all just band together without actually making an argument dont they 

Sad shit


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 16, 2020)

Danisor said:


> Is there a character that could even possibly EVEN TOUCH Madara Uchiha?


Yeah

WA Rikudo Naruto and Sasuke fucked him up multiple times

Anyone on their level or better (such as their adult versions) can do it even easier 

Its really not hard to grasp folks

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Onyx Emperor (Oct 16, 2020)

Adult Sasuke should be matched against EMS Madara without perfect susanoo  otherwise it's a rape thread.


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 16, 2020)

The Overvoid said:


> Adult Sasuke should be matched against EMS Madara without perfect susanoo  otherwise it's a rape thread.


How to spot a troll 101 right here

Reactions: Like 5


----------



## Animegoin (Oct 16, 2020)




----------



## dergeist (Oct 16, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> How to spot a troll 101 right here



You don't need to tell us, we read your posts full of manure already. Btw, @Animegoin and I are still waiting on the scan where Hags said he gave fate bros asspulled seals for Kaguya and not Madara, you found them yet


----------



## T-Bag (Oct 16, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Yeah
> 
> WA Rikudo Naruto and Sasuke fucked him up multiple times
> 
> ...


This is where I ask you to provide proof.

show us where WA naruto or sasuke are fucking up madara with both rinnegan. After you do that, u gotta present further proof of them beating rinnegan sharingan Madara.

they couldnt do shit to him even with 1 eye...i mean yeah they landed a blow or 2 but how effective was it again? remind me. Right. And now you understand why both players are required to take him out with A SEALING TECHNIQUE that belongs to hagoromo. pay attention to the NARRATIVE kishitmoto is conveying here, it’s much more relevant than the fanfic conjured in your head.

stop spreading disinformation now cuz u got ur followers here actually believing this shit too lol


----------



## Animegoin (Oct 16, 2020)

dergeist said:


> You don't need to tell us, we read your posts full of mure already. Btw, @Animegoin and I are still waiting on the scan where Hags said he gave fate bros asspulled seals for Kaguya and not Madara, you found them yet



Lmfao real shit, it’s been about a month now since he made that statement, hasn’t it?


----------



## Arles Celes (Oct 16, 2020)

T-Bag said:


> This is where I ask you to provide proof.
> 
> show us where WA naruto or sasuke are fucking up madara with both rinnegan. After you do that, u gotta present further proof of them beating rinnegan sharingan Madara.
> 
> they couldnt do shit to him even with 1 eye...i mean yeah they landed a blow or 2 but how effective was it again? remind me. Right. And now you understand why both players are required to take him out with A SEALING TECHNIQUE that belongs to hagoromo.



Madara was getting his ass saved only thanks to his regen.

He was unable to hurt the fate bros in any way neither with nor without both Rinnegan eyes.

He clearly said how he needs his 2nd eye after being overwhelmed. Even after getting his 2nd Rinnegan a few KBs from Naruto could match all of his Limbo clones. All his jutsus failed.

And that was when Sasuke was just getting used to his Rinnegan and was a rookie with it as he admitted. Naruto had not yet learned even to fly.

Plus they were tired from the previous fights.

Madara was a cockroach hard to kill but easy to overpower by the fate bros. That is why they needed the seal to put him down.

Granted...even Naruto on his own had a sealing jutsu that could deal with a Limbo clone that is supposedly even to the real thing.


----------



## T-Bag (Oct 16, 2020)

Arles Celes said:


> Madara was getting his ass saved only thanks to his regen.
> 
> He was unable to hurt the fate bros in any way neither with nor without both Rinnegan eyes.
> 
> ...



“the only thing saving his ass was immortality”

i dont know if i should respond to this seriously or sarcastically. No really wtf kinda argument is this? It’s that “immortality” that kakuzu that gave him the upperhand over kakashi and co.  or danzo with sasuke. They eventually got worn out because that immortality was rendering their opponents move useless. Nothing sasuke or naruto worked because he was immortal. Ameno failed twice, rasengan and chidori failed too (with a little help from limbo too ofc). They failed to do ANYTHING EFFECTIVE to him.

and mind you this is 2 v 1. One vs one the fight would gave gone differently, as naruto admitted he couldnt beat him alone. This is CANON, youre not just gonna disregard this so you can continue to entertain the fanfic played here so much. And I repeat AGAIN, this is madara with 1 fucking eye we’re talking about. Within the context of canon, I dont need to go any further to prove my point why Madara can NEVER be beaten solo. I got evidence from the story to back this shit up, a privilege you or your boys here dont have. I got the constitution on my side baby lmaoo

PS: limbo is limbo, as good a jutsu it is it’ll never be treated like the original character. Yes it is equal to Madara but at the end of the day, it’s still a jutsu and it has to be nerfed for obvious reasons. Priorities.


----------



## Arles Celes (Oct 16, 2020)

T-Bag said:


> “the only thing saving his ass was immortality”
> 
> i dont know if i should respond to this seriously or sarcastically. No really wtf kinda argument is this? It’s that “immortality” that kakuzu got the upperhand over kakashi, or danzo with sasuke. They eventually got worn out because that immortality was rendering their opponents move useless. Nothing sasuke or naruto worked because he was immortal. Ameno failed twice, rasengan and chidori failed too. They failed to do ANYTHING AFFECTIVE to him.
> 
> ...



Madara did even less to them. He did not even draw blood.

So the battle would continue with Naruto and Sasuke beating him up forever.

And as I said before Naruto even on his own got a sealing jutsu which worked on his Limbo clone.

As for 2 v 1 we had Naruto on his own holding his own against Kaguya who is much stronger than Madara. That is proof enough that Madara is hardly the equal of either.

All of his jutsus failed against fate bros so what exactly could he yet try? At best its like Edo Itachi Vs BM Naruto. Edo Itachi will offer some light resitance but will get smacked all over the place and will regret his immortality soon enough as BM Naruto brutalizes him terribly.

Hell, for all we know Asura Avatar Naruto might be able to simple obliterate Juubi Madara the same way Goku obliterated Kid Bu with a Genki Dama. Not even a trace would be left if Naruto used the same stuff he used against Sasuke.

Hashirama might not be able to "kill" edo Kakuzu for example but its clear who is more powerful. Edo Kakuzu might keep trying his luck forever but he will just keep getting stomped.


----------



## T-Bag (Oct 16, 2020)

Arles Celes said:


> Madara did even less to them. He did not even draw blood.
> 
> So the battle would continue with Naruto and Sasuke beating him up forever.
> 
> ...


First of all no, it wouldn't continue forever because they'll eventually run out of chakra and moves so that point is moot. I hate to repeat myself but that was 2 v 1, the fight would have obviously gone different if Sasuke was madara's sole focus. Naruto already admitted that he (and by implication sasuke) can NOT beat him solo. That's the *constitution.* You dont deny this particular text because that's the message kishitmoto is conveying to the readers. You can bring up all you want how madara didn't do nothing but you're speaking in the context of 2 v 1, which is not the case here. This is a hypothetical battle between Sasuke and Madara, which we already know the result based on naruto's own admission.

Lol I hope you're not implying naruto's sealing jutsu is equivalent to Six paths chibaku tensei? His rasengan had shukaku's sealing jutsu which was proven to be useless against a much weaker Madara. He simply used the sealing Rasengan in hopes to paralyze madara so they can touch him with SIX PATHS CT. That's why sasuke urged naruto to use CT immediately right after. It's not a long term solution....You gotta stop with these ridicilous arguments bro, seriously it's mind boggling to see how out of touch these arguments are.

Kaguya is far more powerful than Madara but she's still immortal and canonically naruto cannot beat her solo. It's the same case with Madara- naruto nor sasuke can beat him solo. Refer to Hagoromo introduction. He specifically stated he's close to him in power and gave them the sealing jutsu (deus ex machina) to deal with him.


----------



## Arles Celes (Oct 16, 2020)

T-Bag said:


> First of all no, it wouldn't continue forever because they'll eventually run out of chakra and moves so that point is moot. I hate to repeat myself but that was 2 v 1, the fight would have obviously gone different if Sasuke was madara's sole focus. Naruto already admitted that he (and by implication sasuke) can NOT beat him solo. That's the constitution. You dont deny this particular text because that's the message kishitmoto is conveying to the readers. You can bring up all you want how madara didn't do nothing but you're speaking in the context of 2 v 1, which is not the case here. This is a hypothetical battle between Sasuke and Madara, which we already know the result based on naruto's own admission.
> 
> Lol I hope you're not implying naruto's sealing jutsu is equivalent to Six paths chibaku tensei? His rasengan had shukaku's sealing jutsu which was proven to be useless against a much weaker Madara. He simply used the sealing Rasengan in hopes to paralyze madara so they can touch him with SIX PATHS CT. That's why sasuke urged naruto to use CT immediately right after. You gotta stop with these ridicilous arguments bro, seriously it's mind boggling to see how out of touch these arguments are.
> 
> Kaguya is far more powerful than Madara but she's still immortal and canonically naruto cannot beat her solo. It's the same case with Madara- naruto nor sasuke can beat him solo. Refer to Hagoromo introduction. He specifically stated he's close to him in power and gave them the sealing jutsu (deus ex machina) to deal with him.



And you believe Juubi Madara got infinite chakra himself? He is no Edo. Even all that regen most likely uses chakra. Everything uses chakra.

In fact Kaguya run out of chakra while fighting the fate bros. They are THAT powerful.

All Naruto said is that he won't fight Madara alone. He did not say "I cannot beat you alone but I have Sasuke".

Madara though did say he needs a 2nd Rinnegan and literally run away to get it.

The Limbo clone sealed by Naruto and further immobilized with the gudoudama stakes could not free itself. And if the Limbo clone is as strong as the real Juubi Madara...

Do I have to bring the fact that Naruto could create 100s if not 1000s of clones? And since each of these can match a Limbo clone...

And if Naruto alone could wound and sometimes even overpower Kaguya who is superior to Madara then how do you think the much weaker Madara would do against BOTH fate bros going all out?

Plus as I said before the Fate bros were not at their best when facing Madara or Kaguya. Both tired from the previous fights and inexperienced with their powers. Still handled everything that Madara threw at them.

So how do you think Madara can beat fate bros aside from hoping that they will tire before he does?


----------



## T-Bag (Oct 16, 2020)

Arles Celes said:


> And you believe Juubi Madara got infinite chakra himself? He is no Edo. Even all that regen most likely uses chakra. Everything uses chakra.
> 
> In fact Kaguya run out of chakra while fighting the fate bros. They are THAT powerful.
> 
> ...


Kaguya is a dumbass. Even Black zetsu had to warn her to stop using amenominaka so carelessly. Madara doesn't have techniques that consume that much chakra, because he relies a lot on skill on top of his abilities unlike her. They're 2 complete different fighters.
(and just a FYI: Rinnei sharingan madara doesn't have a chakra problem because he can siphon chakra from the divine tree if necessary)

And now you're playing semantics. Madara said "I_ am completely immortal. *YOU *cannot *defeat* me" _to which naruto responded "*we're *taking you down".  Hagoromo split his powers so THEY can defeat him. Given madara outright said that he can't be solo'd after realizing he had absorbed kaguya, naruto admission of needing help, and hagoromo's actions to split his power between 2 people... it's spelled out clearly. Read between the lines, Arles.

By implicating 1 shadow clone > 1 limbo clone, you;re implying naruto is 1000x stronger than Madara. Stop with this silliness please because you're getting worse and worse and this and I hate to sound condescending. The original naruto sealed limbo, and had one of his clone watch over. Everything else you saw with limbo after was pure PIS, you know it, I know it and everybody knows it. Limbo was restricted to pure taijutsu, but we learned later in the Databook they're stronger than they appeared.
But again, Limbo is a jutsu it'll never get treated like the original so you're way of gauging who's stronger based on clones is outright ridiculous.

The narrative is clear who's stronger 1 v 1. It never happened, so you cannot judge this battle with a context of 2 v1 because the fight would have been drawn out differently.


----------



## Arles Celes (Oct 16, 2020)

T-Bag said:


> Kaguya is a dumbass. Even Black zetsu had to warn her to stop using amenominaka so carelessly. Madara doesn't have techniques that consume that much chakra, because he relies a lot on skill on top of his abilities unlike her. They're 2 complete different fighters.
> (and just a FYI: Rinnei sharingan madara doesn't have a chakra problem because he can siphon chakra from the divine tree if necessary)



She more than makes in power her lack of brains.

And Madara was either dumb or weak by losing so handily to Guy and not using Limbo. 

Madara cannot siphon chakra from the divine tree as we saw how he was overhwhelmed when the chakra of MT vicitms was pumped into him. He never stated he can do so either. Speculation at best.



T-Bag said:


> And now you're playing semantics. Madara said "I_ am completely immortal. *YOU *cannot *defeat* me" _to which naruto responded "*we're *taking you down".  Hagoromo split his powers so THEY can defeat him. Given madara outright said that he can't be solo'd after realizing he had absorbed kaguya, naruto admission of needing help, and hagoromo's actions to split his power between 2 people... it's spelled out clearly. Read between the lines, Arles.



At best it means that to counter their immortality it requires the two of them. Not that he is too strong for either.

Would Edo Nagato require some seal to put him down permanently? Sure. Do you consider Edo Nagato above RSM Naruto or Rinnegan Sasuke?



T-Bag said:


> By implicating 1 shadow clone > 1 limbo clone, you;re implying naruto is 1000x stronger than Madara. Stop with this silliness please because you're getting worse and worse and this and I hate to sound condescending. The original naruto sealed limbo, and had one of his clone watch over. Everything else you saw with limbo after was pure PIS, you know it, I know it and everybody knows it. Limbo was restricted to pure taijutsu, but we learned later in the Databook they're stronger than they appeared.
> But again, Limbo is a jutsu it'll never get treated like the original so you're way of gauging who's stronger based on clones is outright ridiculous.



A shadow clone could match a Limbo clone. Not overpower but match. You are right when you say that a Limbo clone could likely do more than it did but the same can be said of RSM clones. We saw how clones of Naruto could create very powerful FRSs to unleash them on Kaguya. It was even too much for her to fully absorb.

In fact we saw Naruto create Kurama clones with power to use bijuudamas with those.

And Madara seemingly cannot absorb attacks from Naruto and Sasuke. Maybe its too much for him to handle or maybe he cannot absorb attack with Six Path chakra. Either way that is what we got from him.



T-Bag said:


> The narrative is clear who's stronger 1 v 1. It never happened, so you cannot judge this battle with a context of 2 v1 because the fight would have been drawn out differently.



We saw Sasuke cut Madara in half with the latter amazed at his speed and we saw Kaguya blitzed and with her arm ripped off by RSM Naruto. With both fate bros being tired from the war and inexperienced.

Madara superior to them one on one? Really? How would he beat them then?

The best he can hope is outlast them. But so could Edo Nagato or Edo Itachi.


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 16, 2020)

T-Bag said:


> This is where I ask you to provide proof.


You need to be reminded that Sasuke cut the chump in half no diff post Shinju?

Or that Post Shinju dipped like a bitch against them?

Or that Narutos KBs were throwing hands on equal ground with Madaras "stronger" Limbo clones when he had all 3 eyes?



T-Bag said:


> madara with both rinnegan


The Shinju >>> Nagatos rinnegan bud

And even then Narutos KBs were more than a match for Madara with all of his eyes

Damage control here falls flat 

And not to mention thats a Naruto and Sasuke without a clue how to use like half their own powers

And he still couldnt do shit to them


T-Bag said:


> u gotta present further proof of them beating rinnegan sharingan Madara


More like you need to prove that that Madara is significantly more powerful stats wise 


T-Bag said:


> they couldnt do shit to him even with 1 eye


They fucking low diffed him with 1 eyes

They both individually cut the fucker in half with way less than their full power

Sasuke fucking blitzed him and made him his bitch with fucking Eiso 

Madara himself admitted he wasnt doing anything against the 2 of them with 1 eye and needed more amps

Troll harder


T-Bag said:


> i mean yeah they landed a blow or 2 but how effective was it again? remind me. Right.


By this logic

2 eyed and even 3 eyed Madara is garbage because he couldnt land an "effective blow" against either Naruto or Sasuke...Hell dude he didnt do shit to Sakura 

Naruto and Sasuke cut Madara in fucking half...Not hyperbole 

And got the dude to cuck to them and retreat 


T-Bag said:


> you understand why both players are required to take him out with A SEALING TECHNIQUE that belongs to hagoromo


The seal isnt for Madara troll

Its for Kaguya

Its directly stated that Hag anticipated Kaguyas revival and thats why he gave them the seals

They were botch diffing Madara without the seal 


T-Bag said:


> pay attention to the NARRATIVE kishitmoto is conveying


You first

Like for instance the boat load of statements calling Hokage Naruto the strongest Shinobi to ever live and Sasuke being the only one to equal him

Wanna know who else is a shinobi?

Madara

Plus the seals being meant for Kaguya

Not Madaras fodder ass 


T-Bag said:


> stop spreading disinformation now cuz u got ur followers here actually believing this shit too lol


Im spreading canon facts

Not your headcanon bullshit where not fucking one of you jokers has actually put forth an argument for Madara winning 

Cuz there isnt one ;lmao


----------



## T-Bag (Oct 16, 2020)

Arles Celes said:


> She more than makes in power her lack of brains.
> 
> *And Madara was either dumb or weak by losing so handily to Guy and not using Limbo. *
> 
> Madara cannot siphon chakra from the divine tree as we saw how he was overhwhelmed when the chakra of MT vicitms was pumped into him. He never stated he can do so either. Speculation at best.


Or just PIS?

And yes he can siphon chakra from the tree. Madara's conversation with obito saying he'll be the sole user with the "ultimate chakra" and hagoromo's stating that the I.T user uses the populations chakra for their own clarifies that. Not to mention DB4 states "all chakra returns to madara." So yes he's capable of using that chakra, after all he is one with the Shinjuu. Common sense.





> At best it means that to counter their immortality it requires the two of them. Not that he is too strong for either.
> 
> Would Edo Nagato require some seal to put him down permanently? Sure. Do you consider Edo Nagato above RSM Naruto or Rinnegan Sasuke?


And if they can't handle his immortality then they can't beat him, simple. What happens? They get worn out, and madara kills them.
They have literally no way of dealing with him solo. They can damage him, fuck him up or whatever but when all is said and done, the last man standing is Madara.



> A shadow clone could match a Limbo clone. Not overpower but match. You are right when you say that a Limbo clone could likely do more than it did but the same can be said of RSM clones. *We saw how clones of Naruto could create very powerful FRSs to unleash them on Kaguya. It was even too much for her to fully absorb.*


Ok but this is not good enough. Damaging Madara/kaguya is not the goal, but the means to paralyze them long enough so they can touch him with the seals. Think how edo tensei's were sealed- they had to put down by a strong attack first. But with naruto absent in this hypothetical fight it's not possible to do. That's why he loses. Sasuke eventually gets worn out, even if theoretically he can hold his own for a while.




> And Madara seemingly cannot absorb attacks from Naruto and Sasuke. Maybe its too much for him to handle or maybe he cannot absorb attack with Six Path chakra. Either way that is what we got from him.


He can. However considering Madara gained new powers, it's only normal he'd resort to new abilities. Think from an author's perspective, readers wanna see new things.





> We saw Sasuke cut Madara in half with the latter amazed at his speed and we saw Kaguya blitzed and with her arm ripped off by RSM Naruto. With both fate bros being tired from the war and inexperienced.


Yes, they landed hits. Great. What did it do ultimately? Nothing. This is why these arguments are pointless.
Naruto and Sasuke came back fresh, there's no excuse. There was no mention of them being low on chakra prior battle.



> Madara superior to them one on one? Really? How would he beat them then?
> 
> The best he can hope is outlast them. But so could Edo Nagato or Edo Itachi.


Madara has more than enough fire power , chakra, and immortality on top of everything to continue to pressure Sauske (or naruto) until they can't anymore. "Outlasting" your enemy is power. It gives you advantage of your opponent, no? That's why edo's were so feared.

PS: And we're still talking about 1 rinnegan Madara. The weakest JJ form.


----------



## T-Bag (Oct 16, 2020)

@WorldsStrongest

read my convo's with arles, cause you're just repeating what he is. Same talking points, clones.

EDIT: Ima break down your post in a bit.


----------



## Leaf Hurricane (Oct 16, 2020)

Bos sasuke can blitz... Wtf is this thread...


----------



## Sufex (Oct 16, 2020)

Its itachi


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 16, 2020)

T-Bag said:


> read my convo's with arles, cause you're just repeating what he is. Same talking points


Thats what happens when people read canon and interpret canon

Their opinions tend to be similar


----------



## Skywalker (Oct 16, 2020)

Madara is getting raw dogged by Adult Sasuke. Every single time.


----------



## T-Bag (Oct 16, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> You need to be reminded that Sasuke cut the chump in half no diff post Shinju?


What does this mean though.....???
He is immortal. This lame citation you bring up is lame. We're talking about the immortal Madara here, not isshiki or any of your boruto ototsuki's who get one shotted. Put some respect in Madara's name.



> Or that Post Shinju dipped like a bitch against them?


Failing to do anything effective to him is hardly "fucking him up" so that's a pretty disingenuous interpretation.  Madara has been trying to get his hands on the other rinnegan since he became jinchuriki, and simply saw the easy opportunity with Kakashi and took it. He aimed for Sasuke's rinnegan* before things even got tough for him*, or did you forget?..lol
Your arguments are on parallel with Arles, and that's not a good thing.



> Or that Narutos KBs were throwing hands on equal ground with Madaras "stronger" Limbo clones when he had all 3 eyes?


I'm going to get technical here with you just because, and say they didn't have 3 eyes but 2 lol. But it doesn't matter because the battle between clones was exclusively taijutsu, and we know 6paths Naruto and JJMadara have the same reflexes so I'm sure you understand the struggle between their clones.



> The Shinju >>> Nagatos rinnegan bud


But the shinju + rinnegan *SET* >>> shinjuu + 1 rinnegan. ima right or im i wrong? Do I need to cite the constitution what happens if Madara completes his set??



> And not to mention thats a Naruto and Sasuke without a clue how to use like half their own powers
> 
> And he still couldnt do shit to them


And neither could they do shit to him. Even with mastered rinnegan/6 paths sage mode, they're still useless, THEY CANT DO ANYTHING of significance. Remember: Cutting an immortal in half is not beating him. ok? Everytime you forget this, recall gai vs madara.



> More like you need to prove that that Madara is significantly more powerful stats wise
> 
> They fucking low diffed him with 1 eyes
> 
> They both individually cut the fucker in half with way less than their full power


dawgg, I got the constitution on my side lmao. I don't have to provide irrelevant "stats" or meaningless feats. I provide text directly from the manga that contradict whatever bs fanfiction you bring my way

*Spoiler*: __ 








The constitution clearly implicated he could only be defeated 2 v1. Read it again and again until you understand Kishitmoto is telling you Madara can't be solo'd.

Remember: Cutting an immortal in half is not beating him. ok?  Recall 8 gates Gai vs Madara lmaoo. ima keep banging this over your head like a senpai everytime you forget.


> Sasuke fucking blitzed him and made him his bitch with fucking Eiso
> 
> Madara himself admitted he wasnt doing anything against the 2 of them with 1 eye and needed more amps
> 
> Troll harder


They could very well seal him working together, but individually they dont have a shot. Pay attention to the narrative, something you don't like to do I noticed. It'll help put things in perspective. it'll definitely make things easier.




> By this logic
> 
> 2 eyed and even 3 eyed Madara is garbage because he couldnt land an "effective blow" against either Naruto or Sasuke...Hell dude he didnt do shit to Sakura


what are you talking about?
Madara with both eyes threw aside naruto and sakura like garbage as he executed his plan without a hitch. Where was sasuke, or naruto?? Why didn't they stop him from using I.T? They couldn't get NEAR Madara. See? That's the difference between 1 eye and 2 eyes. He gave us a glimpse of what Obito was talking about. Big difference.

I wont even get into Rinnei Sharingan cause you obv aint ready for that. You can only see 2 inches from your face lol.



> Naruto and Sasuke cut Madara in fucking half...Not hyperbole
> 
> And got the dude to cuck to them and retreat


I already went over this.



> The seal isnt for Madara troll
> 
> Its for Kaguya
> 
> Its directly stated that Hag anticipated Kaguyas revival and thats why he gave them the seals


except Hagoromo didn't even know Juubi/Shinju Is Kaguya.  Or that I.T was a plan designed to bring Kaguya back. In fact you're worse than Arles at this.
Hagoromo anticipated Madara will become like kaguya. I think you got your reading mixed up or something, but like I been saying you're not exactly the most avid reader around here. You only look at pictures and don't read, like a baby. In order to make sense of what you're looking at you must first have a general understanding of the context.



> They were botch diffing Madara without the seal


Right, right. But it's pointless if they can't seal him. Individually and canonically, they cant. That's my argument.




> You first
> 
> Like for instance the boat load of statements calling Hokage Naruto the strongest Shinobi to ever live and Sasuke being the only one to equal him
> 
> Wanna know who else is a shinobi?



You mean the "greatest" ninja to ever live. You know uniting the bijuu's and the world, and consequently ending war is the greatest feat ever? He can't be the_ strongest _because he's only half of what Madara is ( who's on the level of the sage of the six paths). Which would completely contradict everything we know. Sasuke also surpassed Madara, but that doesn't include jinchuriki because the comparison is simply not there..Sasuke would have to be a jinchuriki.

And just so you can have an understanding shounen villains always have to be much stronger than the protagonist so it can be considered a great achievement. 

]Your reading comprehension is def top notch!  <--That's sarcasm btw.
You gotta level up.




> Plus the seals being meant for Kaguya
> 
> Not Madaras fodder ass
> 
> ...


You don't know wtf you're talking about  . Go argue Aryan targeryan, you'll have an easier time with him I'm sure.. lol.


----------



## Animegoin (Oct 16, 2020)

T-Bag said:


> I'm going to get technical here with you just because, and say they didn't have 3 eyes but 2 lol. But it doesn't matter because the battle between clones *was exclusively taijutsu,* and we know 6paths Naruto and JJMadara have the same reflexes so I'm sure you understand the struggle between their clones.



Actually it wasn’t exclusively taijutsu, Naruto’s RSM clones were using both ninjutsu and taijutsu while Madara’s relied solely on taijutsu. And Madara’s clones, who only wanted to stall, still raped those shadow clones 
 


*Spoiler*: __ 








Nice solo though

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## ARGUS (Oct 16, 2020)

Give this sasuke a full BPS and he still loses mid diff 

here he stands zero chance


----------



## ThirdRidoku (Oct 16, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> They all just band together without actually making an argument dont they
> 
> Sad shit



Lol. Adult Sasuke stands no chance alone against JJMads who is the second strongest character in the series assuming we ignore CIS, PIS, and deus ex machina ,thanks.

Kishimoto needed BZ retcon'd to beat JJ MADz lel

Limbo clones have equal ability to the original as per DBIV, and how else do you explain Madara simulatenously ragdolling 9 bijuu at once so fast Gaara was like wtf just happened, with just a single ORSM limbo clone, eh? I'd say he used ninjutsu there. Yet he used no ninjutsu through limbo against fate bros.

Hell, he didn't use his bijuu damas, didn't use preta path, Susano'o etc. We only saw him use a small fraction of his arsenal in the limited panel time.  You can make the same case for Fate bros, they didn't master their powers yet, but aqlso didn't show most of their arsenal that we know they had.

Bottomline is, it's fact that Hagoromo wasn't expecting his mom to be arrived, it's fact Madara already had Kaguya suppresed within him until Zetsu's retcon asspull backstab. He gave the Fate bros the seals to seal Madara and the juubi period. Hagoromo himself said this, and Naruto was surprised when Zetsu said that the seals could seal Kaguya, as they thought they were just gona seal the juubi.

And this is obvious from the fact the Fate bros needed the seals for One eyed post shinjuu Madara lol, or why else did they resort to that shit, when he countered with limbo switcheroo before they could use it.

Give Sasuke Hokage Naruto as backup, and maybe we have a good fight.


----------



## MYGod000 (Oct 16, 2020)

Madara Destroys This sasuke, You can give sasuke...adult Naruto and they still lose badly against Madara.


----------



## T-Bag (Oct 17, 2020)

Animegoin said:


> Actually it wasn’t exclusively taijutsu, Naruto’s RSM clones were using both ninjutsu and taijutsu while Madara’s relied solely on taijutsu. And Madara’s clones, who only wanted to stall, still raped those shadow clones
> 
> 
> 
> ...


oh I actually missed that.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## ThirdRidoku (Oct 17, 2020)

@T-Bag @Animegoin  do you agree Madara's limbo clone used ninjutsu against the 9 bijuu? I just can't picture Limbo ORSM Madara traveling that massive distance, and hitting all those bijuu simultaneously like that with taijutsu alone. They all got hit at the same time and in different directions.


----------



## Animegoin (Oct 17, 2020)

ThirdRidoku said:


> @T-Bag @Animegoin  do you agree Madara's limbo clone used ninjutsu against the 9 bijuu? I just can't picture Limbo ORSM Madara traveling that massive distance, and hitting all those bijuu simultaneously like that with taijutsu alone. They all got hit at the same time and in different directions.



I see that feat as the greatest shunshin blitz on panel, however I can also see Limbo tossing Yasaka Magatamas or his Susanoo sword smacking the shit out of them in that scenario lmao. I agree that Limbos were restricted from ninjutsu due to plot though, that’s undeniable.


----------



## T-Bag (Oct 17, 2020)

ThirdRidoku said:


> @T-Bag @Animegoin  do you agree Madara's limbo clone used ninjutsu against the 9 bijuu? I just can't picture Limbo ORSM Madara traveling that massive distance, and hitting all those bijuu simultaneously like that with taijutsu alone. They all got hit at the same time and in different directions.



Yes. His shadow most likely performed this.


----------



## ThirdRidoku (Oct 17, 2020)

Animegoin said:


> I see that feat as the greatest shunshin blitz on panel, however I can also see Limbo tossing Yasaka Magatamas or his Susanoo sword smacking the shit out of them in that scenario lmao. I agree that Limbos were restricted from ninjutsu due to plot though, that’s undeniable.





T-Bag said:


> Yes. His shadow most likely performed this.


Lol yeah. In regards to the probability its shunshin and taijutsu, the difference with Lee and sai is that he was grounded there, and its only 2 targets lol.

with the bijuu it's 9 targets, and most of the impact markers are on the heads of the bijuu which means he needed to jump and hit them, , which logically would have slowed him down.

I mean Madara is fast but i don't think he is THAT fast lol


----------



## T-Bag (Oct 17, 2020)

ThirdRidoku said:


> Lol yeah. In regards to the probability its shunshin and taijutsu, the difference with Lee and sai is that he was grounded there, and its only 2 targets lol.
> 
> with the bijuu it's 9 targets, and most of the impact markers are on the heads of the bijuu which means he needed to jump and hit them, , which logically would have slowed him down.
> 
> I mean Madara is fast but i don't think he is THAT fast lol


it's probably best not to look too much into it. There are a lot of instances where i scratch my head with 'huh? how.." i.e Tobi saving sasuke from jinton during the summit. Logically, I can't see how tobi managed to save him in such a split second that late in game, when observing the mechanics of Kamui. But I suppose some things are done that way for suspense, and I think limbo v bijuu fits in this category.


----------



## ThirdRidoku (Oct 17, 2020)

T-Bag said:


> it's probably best not to look too much into it. There are a lot of instances where i scratch my head with 'huh? how.." i.e Tobi saving sasuke from jinton during the summit.



Well we know Obito was in the area because he was hoping to capture weakened gokage. but he wanted to see how far Sasuke got his own to test him. He could have been hiding in the floor underneath. He would only need to phase through the ceiling, pull sasuke down by imbuing him with intangibility to escape. 



T-Bag said:


> But I suppose some things are done that way for suspense, and I think limbo v bijuu fits in this category.


Yeah, him doing it with taijutsu from that distance faster than the 2 tails can finish her sentence is odd. That's why I think it's evidence of ninjutsu.

It also explains the other outlier, like why when he used it on Base SPSM Naruto, Naruto simply dodged the attack but limbo never followed up with an attack, like how he was doing against cloaked SPSM Naruto, where he blocks his rod, then moves out of the way to avoid getting hit by OG Mads light ray attack, but then immediately follows up with a punch on SPSM Naruto.

I low key want to prove its ninjutsu he used ngl lol.


----------



## T-Bag (Oct 17, 2020)

ThirdRidoku said:


> Well we know Obito was in the area because he was hoping to capture weakened gokage. but he wanted to see how far Sasuke got his own to test him. He could have been hiding in the floor underneath. He would only need to phase through the ceiling, pull sasuke down by imbuing him with intangibility to escape.
> 
> 
> Yeah, him doing it with taijutsu from that distance faster than the 2 tails can finish her sentence is odd. That's why I think it's evidence of ninjutsu.
> ...


For obito to hide under ground he'd have to teleport at the area first then phase, but no one sensed him. Even karin a super sensor thought sasuke died. So I think it's something that shouldn't be scrutinized too much imo.

The whole limbo thing is so weird man. I want to say so nerfed.


----------



## ThirdRidoku (Oct 17, 2020)

T-Bag said:


> For obito to hide under ground he'd have to teleport at the area first then phase, but no one sensed him. Even karin a super sensor thought sasuke died. So I think it's something that shouldn't be scrutinized too much imo.



The sensors didn't sense white Zetsu either though. They would only need small laspes in attention. Even BZ who sensed Hachibi and Kurama from miles away couldn't tell Obito and Sakura sneaked into to Kaguya's dimension,or  at least couldn't discern their specific chakra signatures in that time, just that they had chakra. So when they vanished he assumed they were just kage bunshins of naruto.

Obito's chakra signature can't be sensed when he is phased into an object, as shown by Torune failing to sense him.
So Obito only needs to turn on phasing for a split second, grab Sasuke, then pull him down.

Given Karin was focused on the particle style chakra and Sasuke, it's possible she couldn't discern Tobi's chakra in that instant.

probably the only extrapolation

We saw something similiar with tobirama needing an extra minute to identify Orochimaru's true chakra composition- that he also had hashirama's chakra.



T-Bag said:


> The whole limbo thing is so weird man. I want to say so nerfed.


definitely


----------



## MHA massive fan (Oct 17, 2020)

Sasuke spanks 
There is nothing in Madara arsenal sasuke can’t counter 
Like nothing at all


----------



## T-Bag (Oct 17, 2020)

@IpHr0z3nI biggest  and most knowledged Sasuke fan in this forum's history. This guy (or her? I gotta be politically correct nowdays) knows sasuke better than Kishimoto does. From the top of his head he knows how tall sasuke is, and how many hair he has on his head. All jokes aside, he's well versed in the manga, fanboy of sasuke but at the same time very rational, and too few could debate at his level. I took a couple of L's from him I admit. Now having that said,  I dont even know how he's gona answer this question because I dont ever remember him discussing this particular subject

..Iphr0z3ni, can War arc Sasuke (or adult sasuke) defeat Rinnei Sharingan madara by himself considering the the story narrative? I see u lurking like a shark waiting to bite someone, so i figured I'd lure you out lmaoo


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 17, 2020)

T-Bag said:


> can War arc Sasuke (or adult sasuke) defeat Rinnei Sharingan madara by himself


WA cant

Adult easily can


T-Bag said:


> considering the the story narrative?


Cuz youre doing this thing called ignoring all later narratives Kishi made to try and pimp Madara as superior

Meanwhile...Kishi made The Last...And Kishi made the Momo arc of Boruto...

Both of which give Naruto and Sasuke the feats and scaling to fucking embarrass Madara and ITS IN THE NARRATIVE that they are worlds above him

As its stated in the narrative of the film, in the novels and in the guides that Toneri and Naruto (the latter with way less than his full power) are threats to the entire fucking planet and could blow it the fuck up

Madara doesnt sniff that level of power, the mere presence of that level of power inside him literally made him explode and turn into a woman

Toneris chakra is also compared to fucking Kaguya 

Who Sasuke and Naruto both state over and over is >>> Madara

TLDR

Make this about narrative, make this about hype, make this about feats make it about whatever the fuck you want...Sasuke beats Madara in any category.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## T-Bag (Oct 17, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> WA cant
> 
> Adult easily can
> 
> ...


Naruto's battle senses had dulled as per Kurama, and SHin uchiha's theme further reinforced  the theme that peace leads to weakness. So we can naturally say the same thing for Sasuke. At the end of the war arc they had already reached their peak, they didn't improve after that. Sasuke learned how to teleport with his rinnegan, but that's not an implication he's stronger.

Second, be careful with judging characters based on movies. You understand movies are provided a MUCH bigger budget than the series for obvious reasons I wont get into, so naturally everything looks *explosive*  like the fucking michael bay movies and fast pace due to a time limit. This tends to mislead a lot of people. Feats simply look on a different level (this goes for every anime btw) than their series-counterpart. If Jinchuriki Madara was in one of these movies, he'd be a different level too. Context. So don't get it confused. I notice a lot of people fall for this.

Hamura's power to move the moon into the earth.. (and ability toneri inherited, which btw conditions need to be met) does not put them above the likes of The sage of the six paths, JJ Madara or JJ obito. The juubi was said to signal the end of the world, the juubi's power allows one to CREATE the freaking moon, the sword of Nunoboko was said to "create the world". Sage of the six paths >>> Hamura > little bitch descendant toneri.. let's make that clear. You know where Madara falls into? Sage of the six paths. Ok then. Toneri was fucking solo'd...  He didn't even need sasuke's assistance, 6paths senjutsu, or any of the other bijuu's .. wtf does that tell you?? HE was owned by a base rasengan. Get a clue.

PS: MAdara actually didn't explode, he transformed. He was kaguya's vessel _designed_ to host all that chakra. He *swelled up* because he lost control of his will (thx to BZ) similar to how Obito *swelled up* when he became the juubi's jinchuriki before he took control of his will again. But you already knew that. Madara had the chakra of THE ENTIRE PLANET AT HIS DISPOSAL, *“ALL chakra returns to Madara!*”- db4. And we know ototsukis power levels are based on chakra quantity. MAdaras chakra levels >>>>>>>>>>>>> lil hoe toneri’s. Get outta here lmao


----------



## dergeist (Oct 17, 2020)

T-Bag said:


> Naruto's battle senses had dulled as per Kurama, and SHin uchiha's theme further reinforced  that peace leads to weakness. So we can naturally say the same thing for Sasuke. At the end of the war arc they had already reached their peak, they didn't improve after that. Sasuke learned how to teleport with his rinnegan, but that's not an implication he's stronger.
> 
> Second, be careful with judging characters based on movies. You understand movies are provided a MUCH bigger budget than the series for obvious reasons I wont get into, so naturally everything looks *explosive*  like the fucking michael bay movies and fast pace due to a time limit. This tends to mislead a lot of people. Feats simply look on a different level (this goes for every anime btw) than their series-counterpart. If Jinchuriki Madara was in one of these movies, he'd be a different level too. So don't get it confused. I notice a lot of people fall for this.
> 
> ...



The guy can't read, we're still waiting on the scans Hags gave the seals for Kaguya and not JJ Mads as he claimed 

He's even relying on filler novels now

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 17, 2020)

T-Bag said:


> Naruto's battle senses had dulled as per Kurama


Then they didnt

And battle sense =/= stats


T-Bag said:


> we can naturally say the same thing for Sasuke


Sasuke who is constantly doing missions tracking aliens and travelling to other dimensions ic comparabl;e to Naruto doing paper work for a decade?

Yeah no

Narutos excuse in gaiden for being less impressive is rust, Sasukes excuse is dimension hopping nerfs him.

And neither of these are true for a fresh Current Naruto/Sasuke

Troll more


T-Bag said:


> At the end of the war arc they had already reached their peak,





T-Bag said:


> they didn't improve after that.



*Spoiler*: _Read it and weep troll_ 










*Link Removed*
*Link Removed*
*Link Removed*
*Link Removed*





> Naruto tanks an explosion that SHAMES Juubidamas in base while exhausted
> Base Naruto catches and overpowers a TSB blade that can overcome the moons gravity and cut it in half
> The shockwaves of Base Narutos punches fuck up the moons surface
> Sasuke can casually shit Chidori explosions the size of a goddamn village
> Naruto and Sasuke MOVING FORWARD creates shockwaves that fuck up mountains and Shinju roots
> Sasuke can now throw down with a dude who is STRONGER than RSM Naruto in physical strength AND take direct hits from him
> Jigen can oneshot Rikudo PS and BM with physical strength alone, yet Sasuke can BLOCK hits from the STRONGER Isshiki AND take these hits better than his PS or Narutos BM can
> "hurr durr dey hit dere peek in da woor ark"


Must be why their feats in TL shit on their WA levels

And why their feats as adults do the same

No dude

Sasuke is also outright stated multiple times in the war to be NOWHERE NEAR the peak of his Rikudo powers and he can barely use his goddamn Rinnegan

"they were at their peak in the war"

Fucking lol

Fucking ALL of the lols


T-Bag said:


> be careful with judging characters based on movies


No need to be careful dude

kishi directly supervised those films and had complete editorial supervision on them

They are canon no matter how much you salty Madara stans and cheerleaders dont wanna acknowledge them 

And you cant cry about how the animators embellished the moon feats so they arent "legit" or otherwise "not accurate" or "impressive" because ITS IN THE NARRATIVE OF THE FILM AND GUIDES THAT TONERI IS A PLANET BUSTER

Naruto outright states it multiple times



Its not just the animators going crazy...Its in the narrative...

Moon level shit is easily in their realm of ability

You need to get over it

So literally all of this stupid shit right here?


T-Bag said:


> You understand movies are provided a MUCH bigger budget than the series for obvious reasons I wont get into, so naturally everything looks *explosive* like the fucking michael bay movies and fast pace due to a time limit. This tends to mislead a lot of people. Feats simply look on a different level (this goes for every anime btw) than their series-counterpart


Means fuck all

Its IN THE NARRATIVE that the characters are that strong

It has nothing to do with "hurr durr budgeeet"

Its a major fucking PLOT point that the characters are that strong...THE ENTIRE PREMISE OF THE MOVIE is that Toneri can ANNIHILATE THE HUMAN RACE

Kishi wrote the scenes and Kishi had editorial supervision of the fights





"the film is officially dubbed "Naruto chapter 699.5"

"The STORY CONCEPT and designs were CREATED BY MASASHI KISHIMOTO, HE ALSO EXERCISED COMPLETE EDITORIAL SUPERVISION"

Get better damage control my man cuz this shits sad

TL canon denial from the madara stanbase will never not be hilarious to me


T-Bag said:


> Hamura's power to move the moon into the earth.. (and ability toneri inherited) does not put them above the likes of The sage of the six paths


Dont need to be to shit all over Madaras feats and power


T-Bag said:


> JJ Madara or JJ obito


Yes it does

Theyve done fuck all comparable to this

Pure and simple


T-Bag said:


> The juubi was said to signal the end of the world


Which is clear hyperbole

The same shit is said about Kurama, that he will "turn the world to ash"

The Juubi and its Jins are nowhere near planet level threats, Kaguya being the only exception to this and NO OTHER JJ SCALES TO KAGUYA. Except Prime Hag debatably.

JJ Obito lost to kids with no six paths power and an allied force that pales even compared to them and youre gonna sit there and claim hes planet level based on hyperbolic statements and a complete lack of showings to corroborate it?

Hilarious

Tho iirc youre the same galaxy brain who thinks JJ Obito and Pre Shinju Madara are literally = The Sage of Six Paths simply because they SAID they were.

Despite the fact less than 50% of the Sage puts a spite baby in Madaras man womb no diff


T-Bag said:


> the juubi's power allows one to CREATE the freaking moon


Nope

Thatd be the Rikudo CT Seals, which is HILARIOUSLY superior to the Juubi given it fucked the Juubi + Kaguyas power at the same time and held them down for centuries.

These are the same Rikudo CT seals btw which you also think Madara can just create and perform whenever he wants

Because your opinions are laugh out loud jokes and you have zero idea what youre talking about in canon at all


T-Bag said:


> Sage of the six paths >>> Hamura > little bitch descendant toneri lets make that clear



Lets also make it clear that Madara scales to none of these names as 50% of the Sage was more than enough to humiliate him constantly even at full power

So itd be cool if you could stop saying stupid shit otherwise now


T-Bag said:


> You know where Madara falls into? Sage of the six paths.


See?

See this stupid shit?

*Link Removed* *Link Removed*

*Link Removed*

*Link Removed*

*Link Removed*

Oh wait I know how you can make those claims

Cuz youre a worthless troll with no clue what hes talking about

I gotcha 


T-Bag said:


> Toneri was fucking solo'd... He didn't even need sasuke's assistance or any of the other bijuu's


Didnt need them to beat Madara either

Also didnt need 3 extra years of training, another half of Kurama, and complete mastery over his Six Paths powers to embarass Madara

But he had that against Toneri


T-Bag said:


> MAdara actually didn't explode


Yes he did

Literally stated thats what was gonna happen if Kaguya didnt take over

*Link Removed*

He scales nowhere near Kaguya, and scales nowhere near her Son who fought her off in her Prime and defeated her

You have ZERO clue what youre talking about

You fucking Madara fanboys get worse every time we have this "debate" I swear

Yall have no standards for your arguments at this point

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 17, 2020)

dergeist said:


> The guy can't read, we're still waiting on the scans Hags gave the seals for Kaguya and not JJ Mads as he claimed


Youve seen it 

You and goin just wont concede to it

Go back to the last thread this was brought up and look again

Its there

Promise


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 17, 2020)

I dont think @derpgeist knows what a canon citation is if he just accused me of posting fanfic


----------



## dergeist (Oct 17, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Youve seen it
> 
> You and goin are just too thickheaded to concede to it
> 
> ...



You couldn't post it there either, still waiting on the scan where Hogaromo said that, though?

Do you wanna try again or are you planning on posting more manure

I must've touched a nerve

Kishi wrote the last, edited it and supervises it, but forgot Kid Naruto didn't know SCJ

Now bring us that scan where Hogaromo said he gave the seals for Kaguya and not JJ Mads, we want to see them now


----------



## T-Bag (Oct 17, 2020)

what in the fuck did I just read?
Such a cancerous post. You don't even have the basics down. I can't get into calculus with out if you can't do simple algebra.


----------



## dergeist (Oct 17, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> I dont think @derpgeist knows what a canon citation is if he just accused me of posting fanfic



Calling in back up, when he can't bring the scan


----------



## dergeist (Oct 17, 2020)

T-Bag said:


> what in the fuck did I just read?
> Such a cancerous post. You don't even have the basics down. I can't get into calculus with out if you can't do simple algebra.



Ask him, he'll tell you how the 4 Kage tanked moon level punches from fused Momoshiki


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 17, 2020)

dergeist said:


> You couldn't post it there either


Its been posted

So nice to see youre either lying about what actually happened to avoid embarrassment (which is likely true) or genuinely so deluded that you think your version of events is actually true (which is equally likely)

Its been posted

Its in the thread in question

Go look at it 

Its really not hard to shit on you when you argue against canon so often bud


dergeist said:


> Kishi wrote the last, edited it and supervises it


yes

Yes he did

Im sorry this hurts you to admit it but he did


T-Bag said:


> Such a cancerous post. You don't even have the basics down. I can't get into calculus with out if you can't do algebra.


Youre still stuck on 1 + 1 compared to me kiddo

Surprised you can even spell "algebra" if Im being honest

Concession accepted btw


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 17, 2020)

dergeist said:


> Calling in back up, when he can't bring the scan


> I tag this troll
> His reply: "Hurr durr calling in backup!!!!"

What a genius 

Youre the one in here desperately tagging and quoting T-bag kiddo

Lord knows the 2 of you cant string together a coherent argument between you tho

youre gonna need the help


----------



## dergeist (Oct 17, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Its been posted
> 
> So nice to see youre either lying about what actually happened to avoid embarrassment (which is likely true) or genuinely so deluded that you think your version of events is actually true (which is equally likely)
> 
> ...



No scan there, you can post it here for us and prove us wrong



> yes
> 
> Yes he did
> 
> Im sorry this hurts you to admit it but he did



Sure, Kishi forgot Kid Naruro didn't know SCJ, even though Naruto's story starts with learning SCJ


----------



## T-Bag (Oct 17, 2020)

@WorldsStrongest

The trophy is all yours. Superb job.


----------



## dergeist (Oct 17, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> > I tag this troll
> > His reply: "Hurr durr calling in backup!!!!"
> 
> What a genius
> ...



Tags me, then makes a claim hoping people will back him up and pretends he didn't

Now bring us that manga scan, we're waiting


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 17, 2020)

dergeist said:


> No scan there


Yes there is 

Really not my fault if you refused to see it weeks ago and refuse to admit its been posted even now


dergeist said:


> Sure, Kishi forgot


Kishi forgets a lot 

Not an argument for him not writing The Last tho genius

You look alike a complete fool right now just btw

A simple google stuffs you on this argument...

This is some sad shit


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 17, 2020)

T-Bag said:


> @WorldsStrongest
> 
> The trophy is all yours. Superb job.


Cool

Hopefully youll stop posting utter bullshit in this thread or related topics in the future


----------



## dergeist (Oct 17, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Yes there is
> 
> Really not my fault if you refused to see it weeks ago and refuse to admit its been posted even now



Nope, no scan. Bring the scan and prove us wrong, you can do it



> Kishi forgets a lot
> 
> Not an argument for him writing The Last tho genius
> 
> ...



Kishi forgets the basis of Naruto becoming a ninja, by learning SCJ


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 17, 2020)

T-Bag said:


> gave 5,146 reputation points for your post in the thread .  also wrote: I appreciate effort..


Which I could say the same but frankly your post and the logic (or rather lack thereof) therein is embarrassing 

But thats par for the course for a madara stan such as yourself

Far from the first time Ive seen you crash and burn on the topic


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 17, 2020)

dergeist said:


> Nope, no scan


Then im sorry to tell you youre blind



dergeist said:


> Kishi forgets


That he does

Im glad youve finally come to terms with how silly your argument was

Maybe now you can finally start making sense when you post like the rest of us

About time you finally grew up and joined the ranks of reason


----------



## dergeist (Oct 17, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Then im sorry to tell you youre blind



Looky looky @WorldsStrongest still can't bring a scan

Trying to toll and failing miserably, he be like

Now bring us the scan where Hogaromo gave the seal to fatebros for Kaguya and not Madara.



> That he does
> 
> Im glad youve finally come to terms with how silly your argument was
> 
> ...



Let us know when Kishi tells you he forgot Naruto became a ninja by learning SCJ


----------



## T-Bag (Oct 17, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Which I could say the same but frankly your post and the logic (or rather lack thereof) therein is embarrassing
> 
> But thats par for the course for a madara stan such as yourself
> 
> *Far from the first time Ive seen you crash and burn on the topic*


lol Never.

 You nor any of the regulars on this section that are against me simply don't have that capability. But when I have to continuously try to explain water is wet or in general how simple things work and you still dont get it- that's when I have to excuse myself. I dont have a strong constitution towards that level of stupidity, seriously.

I rep'd you for quantity, not quality of your post.


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 17, 2020)

T-Bag said:


> lol Never.


So it wasnt you that claimed Madara could create his own Rikudo CT seals then?

Pretty sure it was you 



T-Bag said:


> While kaguya is _definitely _more powerful, Madara seals her with the 6th paths chibaku tensei



Oh look...It WAS you 

SO yeah, like I said, hardly the first time Ive watched you crash and burn on the topic of Madara


T-Bag said:


> You nor any of the regulars on this section simply don't have that capability.


The implication being it takes some actual measure of skill or intellect to look at your posts and say youre bullshiting and we all know it at  a glance...

Uh huh

No kid

You just say stupid shit

Kinda all there is to it 


T-Bag said:


> I have to continually try to explain water is wet


And meanwhile I have continually explain to you that drinking the madara kool aid is a bad idea and merely makes you look silly

Yet you still do it


T-Bag said:


> I dont have a strong constitution towards that level of stupidity, seriously.


Yet you yourself perpetuate a far more severe level of it constantly

Thats an odd contradiction


----------



## YonkoDrippy (Oct 17, 2020)

Madara wins because he is Madara and more cool than Sasuke


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 17, 2020)

YonkoDrippy said:


> Madara wins because he is Madara and more cool than Sasuke


Honestly the best argument for Madara so far in this thread

Tells you a lot about the other posts

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Animegoin (Oct 17, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Then they didnt
> 
> And battle sense =/= stats
> 
> ...



Lmfao @dergeist, look at how many pics the simp @WorldsStrongest posted in the response above yet he hasn’t posted literally a single manga scan of Hagoromo, Sasuke and/or Naruto stating that the seals were given to them for Kaguya. 


The mental gymnastics required to justify his duplicitous behavior is surely worth a gold medal.


----------



## blk (Oct 17, 2020)

Seems like the NBD is still _slightly _more on the side of canon and sanity... but the spread is eroding as time goes on it seems... not very promising..


----------



## Animegoin (Oct 17, 2020)

blk said:


> Seems like the NBD is still _slightly _more on the side of canon and sanity... but the spread is eroding as time goes on it seems... not very promising..



Bro stfu, you’ve gotten your ass spanked on this exact topic already, in your own thread nonetheless.


----------



## Tsukuyomi (Oct 17, 2020)

Animegoin said:


> Bro stfu, you’ve gotten your ass spanked on this exact topic already, in your own thread nonetheless.


My son this is not how i raised you.
Now show him who is boss @blk


----------



## dergeist (Oct 17, 2020)

Animegoin said:


> Lmfao @dergeist, look at how many pics the simp @WorldsStrongest posted in the response above yet he hasn’t posted literally a single manga scan of Hagoromo, Sasuke and/or Naruto stating that the seals were given to them for Kaguya.
> 
> 
> The mental gymnastics required to justify his duplicitous behavior is surely worth a gold medal.



In the end he ran away



Animegoin said:


> Bro stfu, you’ve gotten your ass spanked on this exact topic already, in your own thread nonetheless.



Damn


----------



## dergeist (Oct 17, 2020)

King789 said:


> My son this is not how i raised you.
> Now show him who is boss @blk



Why's the Juubi licking Isshiti's crack

@MaruUchiha put your dupe back on it's leash


----------



## blk (Oct 17, 2020)

Animegoin said:


> Bro stfu, you’ve gotten your ass spanked on this exact topic already, in your own thread nonetheless.



Did i? 

I generally don't have the stamina for the long debates when it comes to JJ Mads... 
And since @WorldsStrongest usually solos the thread when it comes to Adult Fate bros vs JJ Mads... i don't feel like putting the extra effort...


----------



## Tsukuyomi (Oct 17, 2020)

dergeist said:


> Why's the Juubi licking Isshiti's crack
> 
> @MaruUchiha put your dupe back on it's leash


Ehh Daru sir I advise you to keep your clothes back on.
This is not the bathhouse.
You are in the wrong section


----------



## dergeist (Oct 17, 2020)

King789 said:


> Ehh Daru sir I advise you to keep your clothes back on.
> This is not the bathhouse.
> You are in the wrong section



What is this bathouse you speak off, and change that trash avatar.



blk said:


> Did i?
> 
> I generally don't have the stamina for the long debates when it comes to JJ Mads...
> And since @WorldsStrongest usually solos the thread when it comes to Adult Fate bros vs JJ Mads... i don't feel like putting the extra effort...



If you think that second grade poster solos, then you need help

@Onda Vital what level is prime Chojuro at, he tanked moon level punches and was slapling around Kinshiki who was pushing in Sasuke's shit as per canon


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 17, 2020)

blk said:


> Did i?
> 
> I generally don't have the stamina for the long debates when it comes to JJ Mads...
> And since @WorldsStrongest usually solos the thread when it comes to Adult Fate bros vs JJ Mads... i don't feel like putting the extra effort...


Really wouldn’t sweat goins BS 

Hes the same galaxy brain who doesnt think the Yin or Yang seals amped Naruto or Sasukes stats whatsoever 

Kinda fighting a losing battle from jump street expecting him to see reason


----------



## Tsukuyomi (Oct 17, 2020)

dergeist said:


> What is this bathouse you speak off
> 
> Your home Daru.
> Don't be ashamed of your background
> ...


----------



## Tsukuyomi (Oct 17, 2020)

dergeist said:


> What is this bathouse you speak off, and change that trash avatar.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Prime Chojuro is above 3 Eyed Madara

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## dergeist (Oct 17, 2020)

King789 said:


> Prime Chojuro is above 3 Eyed Madara


We take not childrens' opinions seriously, no need for input my son. That was directed to @Onda ViDarumy fellow Chojuro fan



King789 said:


> What is this bathouse you speak off
> 
> Your home Daru.
> Don't be ashamed of your background



Is that where you were fathered, my son, I have having some memory recall


----------



## blk (Oct 17, 2020)

dergeist said:


> What is this bathouse you speak off, and change that trash avatar.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The feats presented from TL, Momo's fight and fight vs Jigen etc made a pretty convincing and definitive case imo...

Compared to @T-Bag assumptions and baseless extrapolations of Madara having X or Y ability / stat despite no feats for that.. 

In the OBD mid and higher God Tiers (on which Mads and Juubito are not included) are scaled from calcs from TL and the Momo fight, since there you have the best calc'd feats of the franchise...


----------



## Tsukuyomi (Oct 17, 2020)

dergeist said:


> We take not childrens' opinions seriously, no need for input my son. That was directed to @Onda ViDarumy fellow Chojuro fan
> 
> I am also a Chojuro fan so it concerns me very much.
> 
> Is that where you were fathered, my son, I have having some memory recall


No it is the place where I found you when I was looking for orphans I could adopt


----------



## T-Bag (Oct 17, 2020)

blk said:


> The feats presented from TL, Momo's fight and fight vs Jigen etc made a pretty convincing and definitive case imo...
> 
> Compared to @T-Bag assumptions and baseless extrapolations of Madara having X or Y ability / stat despite no feats for that..
> 
> In the OBD mid and higher God Tiers (on which Mads and Juubito are not included) are scaled from calcs from TL and the Momo fight, since there you have the best calc'd feats of the franchise...


They're not assumptions, and especially not _baseless_ extrapolations.
Unless you're under the baseless assumption Sasuke can't use basic rinnegan powers he hasn't shown? I could swear half the posters here say can't because "no feats" and that's so ridiculous, only someone who isn't paying attention to the story can claim shit like that. Even questioning it is a redflag that x or y poster doesn't have a general understanding. And WorldsStrongest is one of these types, and so are you- but with different characters perhaps. lol


----------



## Animegoin (Oct 17, 2020)

King789 said:


> My son this is not how i raised you.
> Now show him who is boss @blk


Listen son, just because I’m patient with you at the moment, doesn’t mean that I won’t break your neck eventually. 




blk said:


> Did i?
> 
> I generally don't have the stamina for the long debates when it comes to JJ Mads...
> And since @WorldsStrongest usually solos the thread when it comes to Adult Fate bros vs JJ Mads... i don't feel like putting the extra effort...


Lol except you don’t even buy the bullshit you’re spewing. Nice to see you trying to convince us though




WorldsStrongest said:


> Really wouldn’t sweat goins BS
> 
> Hes the same galaxy brain who doesnt think the Yin or Yang seals amped Naruto or Sasukes stats whatsoever
> 
> Kinda fighting a losing battle from jump street expecting him to see reason



Lmfao headcanon, just like that scan that @dergeist and I have been waiting almost a month for.


----------



## blk (Oct 17, 2020)

T-Bag said:


> They're not assumptions, and especially not _baseless_ extrapolations.
> Unless you're under the baseless assumption Sasuke can't use basic rinnegan powers he hasn't shown? I could swear half the posters here say can't because "no feats" and that's so ridiculous.



Basic Rinnegan powers that are 100% useless in a battle of this level (except ST that can be scaled to God Tier scale), so... 

And even a max power CST from Juubidara won't kill Sasuke... So even that has arguable usefulness.


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 17, 2020)

Animegoin said:


> Lmfao headcanon


Whats headcanon?

The fact that youve made claims that Rikudo amps aren’t actually amps?

No sweetie

I wish it was as well but no, you’re genuinely just that ill informed


----------



## T-Bag (Oct 17, 2020)

blk said:


> Basic Rinnegan powers that are 100% useless in a battle of this level (except ST that can be scaled to God Tier scale), so...
> 
> And even a max power CST from Juubidara won't kill Sasuke... So even that has arguable usefulness.


whether they're effective or not is a different argument altogether. But to even question sasuke's abilitity to use all 6 paths (just an example) reflects on their reading comprehension, and it's hard for me to get through people like that.


----------



## dergeist (Oct 17, 2020)

King789 said:


> No it is the place where I found you when I was looking for orphans I could adopt



It's okay, my child, daddy acknowledges you, no need to project anymore



blk said:


> The feats presented from TL, Momo's fight and fight vs Jigen etc made a pretty convincing and definitive case imo...
> 
> Compared to @T-Bag assumptions and baseless extrapolations of Madara having X or Y ability / stat despite no feats for that..
> 
> In the OBD mid and higher God Tiers (on which Mads and Juubito are not included) are scaled from calcs from TL and the Momo fight, since there you have the best calc'd feats of the franchise...



Except they're not feats, the moon was going to be blown up by an 8 tails fueled chakra canon in the last. There's zero chance to scale that to anything grand, tbh. If an 8 tails chakra canon was going to do that to the moon, which isn't even that big, then one Jyubi nuke negs it into oblivion let alone one from a JJ. And Momohsiki got his shit pushed in by Darui and was running for dear life, even though he was going to show them and crush them. While his colleague who was fodderising Sasuke, was getting slapped around by Chojuro and Kurotsuchi. It gets worse, it took how many people to restrain the incomplete Jyubi, while Kinshiki got restrained by the two and a shikamaru shadow possession in another instance. Let alone complete Jyubi and then a JJ on top of that. Anyway, adult fate bro has abysmal performance in the Boruto era, he is most definitely pathetic of the duo.

Why does Madara need to show an ability to have it if it'spart of his arsenal? That's the confusing part, if he already has an ability he has it unless he says he doesn't. That's how claims of negation work, last time I checked.


----------



## Tsukuyomi (Oct 17, 2020)

dergeist said:


> It's okay, my child, daddy acknowledges you, no need to project anymore
> I am glad we reached a compromise
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 17, 2020)

dergeist said:


> If you think that second grade poster solos, then you need help


Pretty big talk

Makes you third rate at best then


----------



## dergeist (Oct 17, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Pretty big talk
> 
> Makes you third rate at best then



 he quotes me again, yet brings no scan backing his claim. Son, whatever you rate me at know you'll always be several tiers beneath that. Now get back to furnishing that manga scan where Hogaromo says he gave the seals for Kaguya or run away again


----------



## Animegoin (Oct 17, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Whats headcanon?
> 
> The fact that youve made claims that Rikudo amps aren’t actually amps?
> 
> ...




Oh sweetie, you’re doing everything in your power to deflect from posting the scan of Hago &/or the fate bros stating that the seals were for Kaguya rather than Madara. It’s been a month and few weeks, either nut up or shut up lmfao. And for the record, this is the quote that started it all:


And I exposed you on the “Rikudou amp” claims not too long ago also in my own thread, when I said the following when responding to you, to which you ran out of the thread never to return:


Animegoin said:


> Lmfao World’s must you always lie? To reiterate to everyone not familiar, I said that the Hagoromo’s seals provided no “physical stat amp.” But since you obviously believe that *all* of their stats were amped by the seals, I want you to sit there and attempt to justify their identical stats at Vote 2, when they don’t have the seals anymore.
> 
> You lose credibility everytime you address me, Mr. god-tier in base, you who . That alone shines light on your inability to properly scale.




You putrid ass, big-brained masochist.


----------



## blk (Oct 17, 2020)

dergeist said:


> It's okay, my child, daddy acknowledges you, no need to project anymore
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The cannon obviously was a power multiplier somehow (kinda like Momo's absorption), otherwise why even build/use it, just blow the Moon with a supercharged Gyuki TBB and be done with it... 

Or maybe Bee after years and years of more training just became that good, who knows 

Either way it's a feat FOR the cannon or FOR Bee, not an anti feat for either of them or the Moon's size for sure (which appears as big as it should be)  

Juubi nuke is calced at a way less yield than what is necessary to blow out the Moon so... 

And lastly the best calced speed feats come from the Momo fight (and stuff like Fate Bros causing massive destruction & shockwaves even just by Shunshin'g is impressive af and way above what we saw in the WA).


Depends what ability... If you mean basic 6 Paths abilities i don't think anyone has a problem with that... But if you mean S/T or any of Kaguya's, then that's obviously headcanon and unjustified (and extrapolations ain't sufficient evidence, on panel feats or bust)....


----------



## dergeist (Oct 17, 2020)

Animegoin said:


> Oh sweetie, you’re doing everything in your power to deflect from posting the scan of Hago &/or the fate bros stating that the seals were for Kaguya rather than Madara. It’s been a month and few weeks, either nut up or shut up lmfao. And for the record, this is the quote that started if all:
> 
> 
> And I exposed you on the “Rikudou amp” claims not too long ago, in my own thread, also when I said the following when responding to you, to which you ran out of the thread never to return:
> ...



Ah yes that was the thread, he ran his mouth, luckily for him I got thread banned after tearing his ass up otherwise more humiliation awaited him. It was a glorious day



blk said:


> The cannon obviously was a power multiplier somehow (kinda like Momo's absorption), otherwise why even build/use it, just blow the Moon with a supercharged Gyuki TBB and be done with it...
> 
> Or maybe Bee after years and years of more training just became that good, who knows



Nope  that's fanfic right there, it was the delivery vehicle to ensure the TB chakra reaches the moon.



> Either way it's a feat FOR the cannon or FOR Bee, not an anti feat for either of them or the Moon's size for sure (which appears as big as it should be)



But it is an anti moon feat, if an 8 tails attack can destroy it, then it's not impressive at all.



> Juubi nuke is calced at a way less yield than what is necessary to blow out the Moon so...



Not true at all, since we know 8 tails was going to blow it up. The calcs are wrong, or ignore the facts.



> And lastly the best calced speed feats come from the Momo fight (and stuff like Fate Bros causing massive destruction & shockwaves even just by Shunshin'g is impressive af and way above what we saw in the WA).



That's not a feat either, since we don't know what the surface is composed off and we saw Sasuke in action against Kinshiki, yet couldn't do the same "damage" there. Again, not a feat once his performces are factored in.




> Depends what ability... If you mean basic 6 Paths abilities i don't think anyone has a problem with that... But if you mean S/T or any of Kaguya's, then that's obviously headcanon and unjustified (and extrapolations ain't sufficient evidence, on panel feats or bust)....



Of course he has Kaguya's jutsu, Hogaromo told you he's heading for her/trying to achieve her power and that was before he got his Rinnegan back and gained the 3rd eye. He used the Rinne sharingan to cast IT one of Kaguya's jutsu, after he gained the RS he also used her deep forest emergence jutsu to seal everybody. If he can use them, then he can also use the others with exception of say Byakugan related jutsu since he doesn't have the Byakugan.


----------



## Animegoin (Oct 17, 2020)

dergeist said:


> Ah yes that was the thread, he ran his mouth, luckily for him I got thread banned after tearing his ass up. It was a glorious day
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nothing but facts 

And truthfully @blk’s arguments hold no weight since he punked out of his own thread lmao.

Still tho, Nice neg diff solo


----------



## T-Bag (Oct 17, 2020)

dergeist said:


> It's okay, my child, daddy acknowledges you, no need to project anymore
> 
> 
> 
> ...





blk said:


> The cannon obviously was a power multiplier somehow (kinda like Momo's absorption), otherwise why even build/use it, just blow the Moon with a supercharged Gyuki TBB and be done with it...
> 
> Or maybe Bee after years and years of more training just became that good, who knows
> 
> ...



hmm well think about this way. If the 8tails's uranium power is enough to blow up the moon with help from technology, is it logical in the slightest to think the 10 tails fused together (who's power was said to be "immeasurable" can't perform AT THE VERY LEAST the same feat? Cmon maaan- Joe Biden voice  lol. What Raikage was doing with 8 tails is basically what Pain wanted to do, but on a much smaller scale.

If Juubi was said to be the god of this world, and if hagoromo's sword was said to "create this world" is it logical to think he can't destroy it as well? Absolutely not. Ying/yang.


----------



## Animegoin (Oct 17, 2020)

T-Bag said:


> hmm well think about this way. If the tails's uranium power is enough to blow up the moon with help from technology, is it logical in the slightest to think the 10 tails fused together (who's power was said to be "immeasurable" can't perform AT the very least the same feat? Cmon maaan- Joe Biden voice  lol.
> 
> If Juubi was said to be the god of this world, and if hagoromo's sword was said to "create this world" is it logical to think he can't destroy it as well? Absolutely not. Ying/yang.



Whoa chill, you’re using common sense. That’s not allowed when debating simps


----------



## dergeist (Oct 17, 2020)

Animegoin said:


> Nothing but facts
> 
> And truthfully @blk’s arguments hold no weight since he punked out of his own thread lmao.
> 
> Still tho, Nice neg diff solo



My pleasure



T-Bag said:


> hmm well think about this way. If the tails's uranium power is enough to blow up the moon with help from technology, is it logical in the slightest to think the 10 tails fused together (who's power was said to be "immeasurable" can't perform AT the very least the same feat? Cmon maaan- Joe Biden voice  lol. What Raikage was doing with 8 tails is basically what Pain wanted to do, but on a much smaller scale.
> 
> If Juubi was said to be the god of this world, and if hagoromo's sword was said to "create this world" is it logical to think he can't destroy it as well? Absolutely not. Ying/yang.



Yes  pretty much. This is what an incomplete Jyubi, lacking 8 tails and 9 tails, not even in it's final form is compared too, you see a literal planet appear. Yet somehow the JJ of it's final form or the whole Juubi is inferior 
*Link Removed*

You can't make shit up, well you can if your World's or his choir, but that's another matter


----------



## MaruUchiha (Oct 17, 2020)

Rinnesharingan Madara is stronger, obviously. He's got Sasuke plus Naruto's power in one, and adult Sasuke probably dies of chakra drain before Madara even pulls out the big guns


----------



## Raiken (Oct 17, 2020)

The Overvoid said:


> Adult Sasuke should be matched against EMS Madara without perfect susanoo  otherwise it's a rape thread.


How do you figure that out? Or are you just messing around?

Adult Sasuke also has PS, as well as Amenotejikara, Rinnegan Portals, Preta Path & Chibaku Tensei.

It'd take DRSM Madara to be able to go toe-to-toe with Adult Sasuke. Or a Dual Rinnegan Alive Madara w/o Sage Mode. EMS Madara is logically weaker than Adult Sasuke


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 17, 2020)

Cryorex said:


> It'd take DRSM Madara to be able to go toe-to-toe with Adult Sasuke


So i guess your back to your old "Juubito > Rinnegan Sasuke" retardation then

Good to know


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 17, 2020)

MaruUchiha said:


> He's got Sasuke plus Naruto's power in one


Didnt stop Teen Sasuke from cutting him in half and didnt stop Teen Naruto from embarrassing the mans Limbo clones and ALSO cutting him in half

This argument will never not be stupid

"Both their powers combined" is what carries him to a level BELOW them

He has shittier versions of their abilities and that couldnt have been made clearer 


MaruUchiha said:


> adult Sasuke probably dies of chakra drain


Filler Sasuke sure

Manga canon Sasuke can shit dimensional portals like no ones business now


----------



## Raiken (Oct 17, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> So i guess your back to your old "Juubito > Rinnegan Sasuke" retardation then
> 
> Good to know


W/o the Six Paths Yin Seal, yes. W/ the Six Paths Yin Seal Sasuke > Juubito.


----------



## Raiken (Oct 17, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Didnt stop Teen Sasuke from cutting him in half and didnt stop Teen Naruto from embarrassing the mans Limbo clones and ALSO cutting him in half
> 
> This argument will never not be stupid


Madara's Limbo's beat Naruto's Shadow Clones, that's a completely incorrect statement just to downplay Madara disingenuously.

Madara was smiling before & after being cut in half, and quickly regenerated.

He didn't give a darn.

Madara took advantage of his hax regeneration to be able to quickly get his other Rinnegan w/o having to deal with Naruto & Sasuke first. Likely because he knew they would at least be thinking about destroying it. *Which they were*.



WorldsStrongest said:


> "Both their powers combined" is what carries him to a level BELOW them
> 
> He has shittier versions of their abilities and that couldnt have been made clearer


In your opinion.


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 17, 2020)

Cryorex said:


> W/o the Six Paths Yin Seal, yes.


Yeah its back

Guess youre also back to your "The Last didnt happen" and/or "The last isnt canon" retardation then

Cuz theres literally no other way a sane human being would argue Naruto and Sasuke got weaker after losing the seals if you didnt buy one of the above

Even looking at their VOTE fight its beyond obvious they got stronger

Sasuke outright states he got stronger ffs


----------



## Raiken (Oct 17, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Yeah its back
> 
> Guess youre also back to your "The Last didnt happen" and/or "The last isnt canon" retardation then
> 
> Cuz theres literally no other way a sane human being would argue Naruto and Sasuke got weaker after losing the seals if you didnt buy one of the above


No I just see the movies as separate continuities. The Naruto Gaiden & Boruto Manga make this clear. They don't share the same scaling.


> Even looking at their VOTE fight its beyond obvious they got stronger
> 
> Sasuke outright states he got stronger ffs


Imo, their showings at VotE weren't even that impressive in comparison to their earlier fight with Madara/Kaguya.

And all he says is that he had gotten used to using the Rinnegan.


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 17, 2020)

Cryorex said:


> Madara's Limbo's beat Naruto's Shadow Clones, that's a completely incorrect statement


We dont see the result of their clash until Mugen is in full tilt and*Link Removed*

2 things that wouldnt affect the Limbos but would affect KBs

Use your brain

What we see tho is Narutos clones have zero issues keeping up with the all fucking powerful 3 Eyed Madaras limbo clones

And what we go on to see is Naruto throwing hands with Kaguya whos hilariously superior to Madara in every way

Which means at the very least Madara, clones or no, is vicariously embarrassed regardless 


Cryorex said:


> Madara was smiling before & after being cut in half


Literally doesnt matter

the scene proves Sasukes attacks >>> his durability and proves Sasukes speed >>> his


Cryorex said:


> In your opinion.


No actually this is just fact

The dude cucks to them even with the Shinju amp and cant outdo Narutos KBs with all of the amps he ever gets under his belt dude

And he fought a Naruto and Sasuke who couldnt use their abilities for shit at that point 

Which yall always cuck to and never address


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 17, 2020)

Cryorex said:


> I just see the movies as separate continuities


Kishi doesnt

So yay for more of your stupid headcanon

TL is literally offically designated "Naruto chapter 699.5"

Already posted the scan

Nice to see some folk never get a clue and adhere to canon and instead find endless excuses tho


Cryorex said:


> The Naruto Gaiden & Boruto Manga make this clear. They don't share the same scaling.


Yes they do


Cryorex said:


> there showings at VotE weren't even that impressive


Their Final clash is literally the most impressive thing we have seen in the entire manga bar Kaguyas ETSB hype

They created an explosion that is seen and felt by Kakashi countries away 

Nothing else comes close to that


Cryorex said:


> all he says is that he had gotten used to using the Rinnegan


His Rinnegan being his Six Paths power

Getting better with six paths power = getting stronger 

Its really not complicated

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## MaruUchiha (Oct 17, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Didnt stop Teen Sasuke from cutting him in half and didnt stop Teen Naruto from embarrassing the mans Limbo clones and ALSO cutting him in half


That Madara didn't have both Rinnegan, more Limbo clones, and Rinnesharingan like the Madara I'm talking about. As far as Naruto handling the Limbo clones that was with Sasuke's help, Madara not paying attention to them, and Naruto's Shadow Clone spam which Sasuke doesn't have


----------



## Onyx Emperor (Oct 17, 2020)

Cryorex said:


> How do you figure that out? Or are you just messing around?


i looked at their feats and compared.
To me, manga naruto feats don't apply to manga boruto characters, 2 different authors - 2 different verses.


----------



## Onyx Emperor (Oct 17, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Guess youre also back to your "The Last didnt happen" and/or "The last isnt canon" retardation then


Better to be a "retard" who considers the last not canon than being re-zero fan tbh.


----------



## KamuiKye (Oct 17, 2020)

I voted Sasuke at first then the leaks for the chapter 51 came out and I changed my vote.

Good Luck Sasuke...


----------



## blk (Oct 18, 2020)

dergeist said:


> Ah yes that was the thread, he ran his mouth, luckily for him I got thread banned after tearing his ass up otherwise more humiliation awaited him. It was a glorious day
> 
> 
> 
> ...



- actually it would have destroyed the Moon by teleporting it in another dimension or something... Or at least that's what i read..
@WorldsStrongest not sure if you watched the movie but can you confirm this? 

- makes no sense to say it's an anti feat for the Moon pal... The Moon is just a huge a space rock, can't even have feats.
It's like saying that JJ Mads feats are fake and are actually anti-feats for the Naruto planet, because we don't like that he would be that strong otherwise.. 

- the surface was clearly composed of rock/dirt. 
And still their _movement_ caused Shinju sized shockwaves and clearly affected it (and we know what the Shinju is made of)... No other speed feat even comes close to this in the franchise ;

- no, as even if in principle he could acquire those S/T abilities, we can't assume he has them w/out training and such... 
Sasuke's eyes too had S/T abilities but he unlocked them only after many years of getting accustomed with the eye... 



T-Bag said:


> hmm well think about this way. If the 8tails's uranium power is enough to blow up the moon with help from technology, is it logical in the slightest to think the 10 tails fused together (who's power was said to be "immeasurable" can't perform AT THE VERY LEAST the same feat? Cmon maaan- Joe Biden voice  lol. What Raikage was doing with 8 tails is basically what Pain wanted to do, but on a much smaller scale.
> 
> If Juubi was said to be the god of this world, and if hagoromo's sword was said to "create this world" is it logical to think he can't destroy it as well? Absolutely not. Ying/yang.



Yeah the Juubi can do the same THROUGH THE CANNON's power multiplier. 

It can't do it by itself obviously, it doesn't have the feats, we saw that its strongest TBBs are nowhere near Moon level, so... 

Also Pain was planning a country level weapon, much weaker than Kumo's moon level cannon...


----------



## MYGod000 (Oct 18, 2020)

blk said:


> - actually it would have destroyed the Moon by teleporting it in another dimension or something... Or at least that's what i read..
> @WorldsStrongest not sure if you watched the movie but can you confirm this?
> 
> - makes no sense to say it's an anti feat for the Moon pal... The Moon is just a huge a space rock, can't even have feats.
> ...





Considering it took a Couple Hundred Cloud Shinobi to power that Cannon....it shouldn't even be a Debate the juubi>That cannon.


Pain Said he was going to use A Bijuu Super Weapon, But it was never said Country Level would be the Limit of that Weapons power.
Just like country level isn't the Limit of the Juubi's power who in it's Skinny form was already planet level in chakra.

Edit: You also continue to ignore that the Juubi Across all Media has been stated to have *"Immeasurable"* chakra.   If a Chakra cannon Powered by cloud Village shinobi is able to destroy the moon using 8 TBB like beams, then it no Doubt the Juubi can easily destroy the Moon regardless of his feats.


----------



## dergeist (Oct 18, 2020)

blk said:


> - actually it would have destroyed the Moon by teleporting it in another dimension or something... Or at least that's what i read..
> @WorldsStrongest not sure if you watched the movie but can you confirm this?



Nope that's fanfic whoever typed that is making up nonsense, it was going to obliterate it. Even if it transported it, the moon was going to be blown to bits by the chakra. My guess is transportation was so any remnants don't hit the earth, sonce Ninja can't be everywhere to destroy them.



> - makes no sense to say it's an anti feat for the Moon pal... The Moon is just a huge a space rock, can't even have feats.
> It's like saying that JJ Mads feats are fake and are actually anti-feats for the Naruto planet, because we don't like that he would be that strong otherwise..



You're joking right, if the moon can be destroyed an 8 tails canon, that means any feats with it or against it aren't impressive.




> - the surface was clearly composed of rock/dirt.
> And still their _movement_ caused Shinju sized shockwaves and clearly affected it (and we know what the Shinju is made of)... No other speed feat even comes close to this in the franchise ;



It's a low gravity environment and there was nothing shinju sized about it. You need to stop smoking world's level crack, it's messing with your cognitive functions. Less G force, normal chakra exertion, whatever happens on there will seem overexaggerated even though it's far inferior to the earth.




> - no, as even if in principle he could acquire those S/T abilities, we can't assume he has them w/out training and such...
> Sasuke's eyes too had S/T abilities but he unlocked them only after many years of getting accustomed with the eye...



Nope, they're abilties of the Rinnesharingan, if Madara used IT and deep forest emergence without practise he can use the rest. I hate to break it to you, but the sharingan grants natural abilities, much like Sasuke randomly used Amaterasu,  and ameno, Obito uses Kamui etc, the Rinnesharingan is no different. You use them and then get used to them, yourself. I haven't seen that rule change, yet.




> Yeah the Juubi can do the same THROUGH THE CANNON's power multiplier.
> 
> It can't do it by itself obviously, it doesn't have the feats, we saw that its strongest TBBs are nowhere near Moon level, so...
> 
> Also Pain was planning a country level weapon, much weaker than Kumo's moon level cannon...



The canon isn't a multiplier, stop making shit up, you're letting team smoking down. Also the canon size of the moon isn't even village size.

*Link Removed*

See the tailed beasts on the left and look at the diameter of the crater. And the moon is formed it just needs to fill the bottom and compress, so would be slightly smaller. If we're being conservative we can just assume the diameter is the same with as the crater. And that ties in with why 8 tails powered TBB was going to obliterate the moon considering you could just fit a tailed beast across diameter at the widest point so would come to around 30 at most.

Pains weapon clearly shits on this being at country level.

@Animegoin you wanna add anything?

Edit: Just realised the last troll part of your post wasn't directed towards me. Anyway, @blk you're better than the trolls, time to accept Boruto era fate bros are scaled down and move on. And it's to be expected, after they lost their seals they regressed heavily, Naruto couldn't even regenerate or COAT things his arm or Sasuke's. And Sasuke pretty much told us Kakashi could handle his Rinnegan, while Obito was struggling to handle Madara's even with his Uchiha + anps. I would've mentioned Sakura, but she has shown Rokudo level feats. However, if you want to deny those feats, and treat her like a fodder then Sasuke pretty much said she could handle it as well.

There's not much more for me to add, tbh. If you want to blind fap and assume delusional power up for fate bros, while ignoring the anti-feats all around them, then that can't be helped.


----------



## Perfect Susano (Oct 18, 2020)

I'm not even sure what's even being argued here about feats from The Last. Toneri merely split the moon in half. Even if the Ten Tails only had the power to take out a country like Pain said, this is the size of a country compared to the moon

*Spoiler*: __ 









Something that would vaporize a country would do far more damage than whatever Toneri did to it, which is pretty much nothing in the long run since it's still intact and floating in space as normal, which it would not be after taking an attack that would vaporize a country

And a standard mountain level Bijudama ripped through the moon and sent Toneri's statue from one side of it to the next without even exploding. Toneri's chakra is inferior to Kurama's own chakra by far which deflected the beam from simply being concentrated in Naruto's hand. So Toneri does nothing for the power scale from a narrative perspective. He's a Kurama Perfect Jin level opponent.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## blk (Oct 18, 2020)

Perfect Susano said:


> I'm not even sure what's even being argued here about feats from The Last. Toneri merely split the moon in half. Even if the Ten Tails only had the power to take out a country like Pain said, this is the size of a country compared to the moon
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



You are making some assumptions and mistakes here, like that the Juubi destroyed a country as big as the US and ignoring that Moon isn't a surface, it is a sphere with WAY more rock and mass than a country.
Therefore destroying THAT amount of mass takes orders of magnitude more energy than pulverizing the surface of a country.

Anyway there is no need for us to guess and eyeball really, it has been calculated for sometime now:


MarF said:


> Anyone stronger than Toneri sits at 4,1+ Zettatons, which is small planet level. Juudara's CT raindrops were around 30 exatons in total or pretty much exactly moon level if you don't wanna scale him to Toneri. The V3 Juubi had a 20 petaton feat(continent level), that the lower end god tiers can be scaled to.
> 
> The only better feat is Kaguya's ETSB with 160 ZT for destroying and recreating her planet+ sized dimension, but nobody scales to that as far as I'm aware.
> 
> The mid to upper god tiers scale to mach ~30k which is sub relativistic, from a Boruto feat involving Momoshiki and Kinshiki. The next best feat is from the coneshaped V2 Juubidama with mach ~6000.



So Toneri's feat >>> Madara's feat >>> Juubi's feat.

And the best speed feats come from the Momo fight by a significant margin.

Adult Naruto&Sasuke by feats are by far their strongest iteration and shit on JJ Madara and the Juubi...


----------



## Perfect Susano (Oct 18, 2020)

blk said:


> You are making some assumptions and mistakes here, like that the Juubi destroyed a country as big as the US and ignoring that Moon isn't a surface, it is a sphere with WAY more rock and mass than a country.
> Therefore destroying THAT amount of mass takes orders of magnitude more energy than pulverizing the surface of a country.
> 
> Anyway there is no need for us to guess and eyeball really, it has been calculated for sometime now:
> ...


Bijudama produces an spherical omnidirectional explosion. If the explosion is wider than the moon considering a country is wider than it, it'll be bigger than the moon in all of it's dimensions. A Bijudama capable of covering a country would outright vaporize the moon since it's explosion would be bigger than the moon. 

None of these calcs matter quite honestly in front of the narrative, and their legitimacy is dubious since they're interpreted from a perspective of wanting certain characters to be at a certain level. Wherever you want to scale Toneri to, Kurama's power scales above it and so does everyone that's above a Kurama Perfect Jin like BSM Naruto from the war arc since The Last Naruto didn't show anything that war arc Naruto couldn't do besides a throwable Rasenshuriken in base and separating from Kurama. Pretty much every relevant characters scales above the level to handle Toneri's supposedly "country level" Silver Wheel that Shikamaru, Sakura & Sai survived.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## blk (Oct 18, 2020)

Perfect Susano said:


> Bijudama produces an spherical omnidirectional explosion. If the explosion is wider than the moon considering a country is wider than it, it'll be bigger than the moon in all of it's dimensions. A Bijudama capable of covering a country would outright vaporize the moon since it's explosion would be bigger than the moon.
> 
> None of these calcs matter quite honestly in front of the narrative, and their legitimacy is dubious since they're interpreted from a perspective of wanting certain characters to be at a certain level. Wherever you want to scale Toneri to, Kurama's power scales above it and so does everyone that's above a Kurama Perfect Jin like BSM Naruto from the war arc since The Last Naruto didn't show anything that war arc Naruto couldn't do besides a throwable Rasenshuriken in base and separating from Kurama. Pretty much every relevant characters scales above the level to handle Toneri's supposedly "country level" Silver Wheel that Shikamaru, Sakura & Sai survived.



No mate, you are just ASSUMING that it is wider than the Moon. You haven't measured the explosion... 

If calcs are dubious then your estimations are even more so, because you are fundamentally doing the same thing, except MUCH less accurately.
Calcs are not complicated (only appear so), they simply measure the size of an explosion (by comparing its size with other things in the panels with known sizes) and then put into a calculator the amount of rock/material that would have been destroyed if it was there (this also depends on how an explosion expands, in Naruto TBBs have an uniform effect/energy distribution so it's even easier to calculate).
Or look at the effects (crater size etc) of it if it did destroy stuff.
For the Juubidama it is the former case since it expanded up in the air and didn't destroy much except the surface.

The calculator then gives you the energy yield for the amount of rock/other material destroyed (depending if it was fragmented, melted or vaporized, obviously giving an higher value in the latter cases).

They are not anti-narrative as much as you eyeballing the power of an explosion is anti-narrative... 

Scaling is not retroactive, if Naruto has become so much stronger that he can deal with Moon level stuff in base, or with BSM, or whatever those are HIS feats... JJ Madara doesn't get that scaling unless shown or stated otherwise.
That's just Naruto progressing and Toneri being a stronger enemy than Madara.
Same for Momo etc.
It's classic Shonen power inflation


----------



## Raiken (Oct 18, 2020)

Looking at the votes split half & half aha. It shows how divided we all are. Half of us think Madara shits & the other half think Sasuke shits.

Literally the case with every Juubito/Juudara VS The Last/Boruto Character thread ever.

GO TEAM JUUBI JIN!


People used to think Delta could beat Juubito haha. Glad that got nipped in the bud.


----------



## blk (Oct 18, 2020)

@King789 

Look at the votes 

The erosion happened quicker than expected... 

Seems like Base Jman is abandoning us


----------



## Raiken (Oct 18, 2020)




----------



## Tsukuyomi (Oct 18, 2020)

blk said:


> @King789
> 
> Look at the votes
> 
> ...


My son it is over


----------



## Perfect Susano (Oct 18, 2020)

blk said:


> No mate, you are just ASSUMING that it is wider than the Moon. You haven't measured the explosion...
> 
> If calcs are dubious then your estimations are even more so, because you are fundamentally doing the same thing, except MUCH less accurately.
> Calcs are not complicated (only appear so), they simply measure the size of an explosion (by comparing its size with other things in the panels with known sizes) and then put into a calculator the amount of rock/material that would have been destroyed if it was there (this also depends on how an explosion expands, in Naruto TBBs have an uniform effect/energy distribution so it's even easier to calculate).
> ...


This is going off your argument of the Ten Tails being country level with it's Bijudama based on Nagato's word. If it can vaporize a country, it can vaporize the moon since a country is equal or greater than the moon in width and the Bijudama would possess the same measurements in all of it's dimensions.

You are referring to the cone Bijudama which is shape manipulated to explode upwards instead of omnidirectionally. The Ten Tails does not need to use a cone Bijudama. It can fire off spherical variants that are dozens of times stronger.

Power inflation isn't a thing with static power benchmarks. Kurama's power doesn't change. Kurama's chakra is above Toneri's. And there is no retroactive scaling. You arbitrarily assume that no other Naruto other than from The Last can beat Toneri even though nothing implies it, even though he's using the same power.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## blk (Oct 18, 2020)

Perfect Susano said:


> This is going off your argument of the Ten Tails being country level with it's Bijudama based on Nagato's word. If it can vaporize a country, it can vaporize the moon since a country is equal or greater than the moon in width and the Bijudama would possess the same measurements in all of it's dimensions.
> 
> You are referring to the cone Bijudama which is shape manipulated to explode upwards instead of omnidirectionally. The Ten Tails does not need to use a cone Bijudama. It can fire off spherical variants that are dozens of times stronger.
> 
> Power inflation isn't a thing with static power benchmarks. Kurama's power doesn't change. Kurama's chakra is above Toneri's. And there is no retroactive scaling. You arbitrarily assume that no other Naruto other than from The Last can beat Toneri even though nothing implies it, even though he's using the same power.



- it is not going off, i just told you that you are just assuming stuff with no basis... which you are doing again here 
You are assuming that "a country" means the US or anything larger, while you have no evidence of that...;

- it's not needed to guesstimate what level of country Nagato was referring to anyway, since we can actually see and measure the yields of the Juubidamas, and these are not even close to Toneri's feat... so there ya go 

- the previous Narutos before TL have much worse feats... so how's that an assumption when we have direct visual and more importantly measurable proof that TL Naruto >>> previous Narutos?
If anything it's you who are assuming that either Kurama or Naruto's base power can't change/didn't change... despite presenting no evidence of that, against the much stronger&rigorous measurable evidence (in calc'd feats) that his TL and adult versions are >>> previous versions...


----------



## T-Bag (Oct 18, 2020)

blk said:


> Yeah the Juubi can do the same THROUGH THE CANNON's power multiplier.
> 
> It can't do it by itself obviously, it doesn't have the feats, we saw that its strongest TBBs are nowhere near Moon level, so...
> 
> Also Pain was planning a country level weapon, much weaker than Kumo's moon level cannon...


So toneri who's not even hamura level has more firepower than The Sage of the six paths (his far superior brother)?
You people are quite something lol


----------



## blk (Oct 18, 2020)

T-Bag said:


> So toneri who's not even hamura level has more firepower than The Sage of the six paths (his far superior brother)?
> You people are quite something lol



How did you even get to this strawman from the post you quoted 

I'm genuinely confused

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## T-Bag (Oct 18, 2020)

blk said:


> How did you even get to this strawman from the post you quoted
> 
> I'm genuinely confused


lol youre right I shouldnt have quoted. Shoulda just been a straight post because youre arguing Juubi cannot perform toneri level feats and it's quite funny considering the power scale between Hagoromo,hamura and toneri.


----------



## blk (Oct 18, 2020)

T-Bag said:


> lol youre right I shouldnt have quoted. Shoulda just been a straight post because youre arguing Juubi cannot perform toneri level feats and it's quite funny considering the power scale between Hagoromo,hamura and toneri.



Juubi is not Hagoromo or Hamura, so... 

Hag&Ham >> Toneri doesn't imply that Juubi > Toneri

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## T-Bag (Oct 18, 2020)

blk said:


> Juubi is not Hagoromo or Hamura, so...
> 
> Hag&Ham >> Toneri doesn't imply that Juubi > Toneri


But JJ Madara is on the level of Hagoromo, who is > Toneri...


----------



## blk (Oct 18, 2020)

T-Bag said:


> But JJ Madara is on the level of Hagoromo, who is > Toneri...



No he isn't, he was getting defeated by half of Hags power... 

That statement was hyperbolic / not meant to be taken literally...


----------



## T-Bag (Oct 18, 2020)

He opened the 3rd eye and had the worlds chakra at his finger tips...(a power grab move)

Now youre entering worldstrongest territory..


----------



## Alita (Oct 18, 2020)

Sasuke kicks his ass.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## blk (Oct 18, 2020)

T-Bag said:


> He opened the 3rd eye and had the worlds chakra at his finger tips...(a power grab move)
> 
> Now youre entering worldstrongest territory..



So what?

World Chakra that he didn't absorb and couldn't even if he wanted.. we saw that his body couldn't deal with that power 

Anyway the JJ Madara we debate is the canon Madara that didn't absorb any of the chakra from the people in Mugen Tsukuyomi, regardless of whether he can or not.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## T-Bag (Oct 18, 2020)

blk said:


> So what?
> 
> World Chakra that he didn't absorb and couldn't even if he wanted.. we saw that his body couldn't deal with that power
> 
> Anyway the JJ Madara we debate is the canon Madara that didn't absorb any of the chakra from the people in Mugen Tsukuyomi, regardless of whether he can or not.


What do you mean "so what?" I don't think you understand the implication of this.

Let's quote the databook. *"ALL chakra returns to Madara!"*.  Keep in mind he is one with the shinjuu, they are NOT separate once he absorbed kaguya. This is power that Hagoromo didn't have.

Let's not forget the Rinnei Sharingan is quoted the* "perfect doujtsu "* .. Again, ANOTHER power Hagoromo didn't have but Madara did.

Let us alsooo remind ourselves Madara absorbed the shinjuu and claimed immortality once he discovered he had in fact absorbed 'Kaguya', another power Hagoromo didn't have.

You don't awaken the rinnegan become jinchuriki (which is what hagoromo did exactly) , become immortal, open the the perfect doujutsu, return all chakra to yourself.. only for you to say "oh no no, it's just hyperbole guys. It's not meant to be taken literally" lmfaooo you realize you sound insane and *literally* doesn't make any sense?


----------



## Animegoin (Oct 18, 2020)

Damn @blk, you just had to shitpost smh. Now look at you...all fucked up on various fronts. You hate to see it


----------



## blk (Oct 18, 2020)

T-Bag said:


> What do you mean "so what?" I don't think you understand the implication of this.
> 
> Let's quote the databook. *"ALL chakra returns to Madara!"*.  Keep in mind he is one with the shinjuu, they are NOT separate once he absorbed kaguya. This is power that Hagoromo didn't have.
> 
> ...



Madara was one shotted by BZ and had a forced sex change RIGHT AFTER Mugen was activated mate 

He didn't materially have the time to absorb anything from the trapped people, even granting the super generous assumption that his body wouldn't explode from it 


Hag had all of that power and more, since he was an High God tier in base (as the Fate Bros, each having half of his power were Mid God tiers as teen already w/out full mastery of it).
He had the Juubi, had the third eye and had Otsutsuki genes and thus Rikudo power as a baseline.

While Madara in base, w/out the Juubi, was nothing compared to him.

So one God Tier amp (Juubi) vs a guy that even in base is superior to that God Tier amp.. and that had that God Tier amp too.


----------



## T-Bag (Oct 18, 2020)

blk said:


> Madara was one shotted by BZ and had a forced sex change RIGHT AFTER Mugen was activated mate
> 
> He didn't materially have the time to absorb anything from the trapped people, even granting the super generous assumption that his body wouldn't explode from it
> 
> ...


Black Zetsu (kaguya's will) > Madara's will.

And so when Madara lost control of his will he lost control of the chakra causing him to swell.
Think Obito for a second, remember when he became jinchuriki? His will was being overpowered by the juubi and he started to swell akin to Madara, UNTIL he gained back control of his will.

If Black Zetsu didn't interfere (by inserting kaguya's will in him)  Madara was in route to absorbing that chakra into himself as Rikudou Sennin himself foresaw. Now you understand why ultimately the seals were given to the fatebro's lol. He knew Madara would eventually be reaching for Kaguya's power, implying Madara is more than capable under normal circumstance. What he didn't predict is Black zetsu coming in with the clutch. No one did.

It's really simple bro. Really simple.


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 18, 2020)

blk said:


> - actually it would have destroyed the Moon by teleporting it in another dimension or something... Or at least that's what i read..
> @WorldsStrongest not sure if you watched the movie but can you confirm this?


Yes its a BFR canon

It doesnt scale to anyones DC


----------



## blk (Oct 18, 2020)

T-Bag said:


> Black Zetsu (kaguya's will) > Madara's will.
> 
> And so when Madara lost control of his will he lost control of the chakra causing him to swell.
> Think Obito for a second, remember when he became jinchuriki? His will was being overpowered by the juubi and he started to swell akin to Madara, UNTIL he gained back control of his will.
> ...



Yes it's similar to Obito and in fact Obito was extremely close to losing his self....

So why are you claiming that would have been able to deal with AN EVEN BIGGER burden / chakra? How do you know for certain he would have been able to, when in your own Obito example the dude almost lost it? 

And that's the crux of the matter... you don't, you are assuming he would have with no definitive evidence 


ANYWAY, as i already stated in the vs threads we don't debate an hypothetical Madara that amped himself up even more, regardless if he could or not.
We debate the version of Madara with the amps and the abilities shown on panel or highly implied he should have (i.e ST and the other Rinnegan Paths for example), nothing more nothing less...


----------



## T-Bag (Oct 18, 2020)

blk said:


> Yes it's similar to Obito and in fact Obito was extremely close to losing his self....
> 
> So why are you claiming that would have been able to deal with AN EVEN BIGGER burden / chakra? How do you know for certain he would have been able to, when in your own Obito example the dude almost lost it?
> 
> ...


Ask and you shall receive brother man lol.

Ok sooo a couple of things,

First thing’s first: Madara is the true successor of the Rinnegan, or Sage of the Six paths to paraphrase black zetsu. Obito almost lost himself with just 1 rinnegan and he had a hard time controlling the juubi's chakra, a sharp contrast with Madara who instantaneously managed to bend the juubi to his will. It comes natural to a true successor.

Second: contrary to obito, Madara became _one _with the shinju "Kaguya" which is the natural husk to all the globe's chakra so he's by design, capable of hosting that chakra because like I said, they are now _one_ and not separate entities. Remember Obito wanted the shinjuu's eye (which is separate from him) to cast the Mugen Tsukuyomi on the population, opposite of Madara who PERSONALLY casted it. Again, a stark contrast between the two.

Third: Rikudou Sennin projected Madara would eventually reach Kaguya's power based on his power hungry nature, this directly implicated he's capable of doing so from a narrative standpoint,  the fact the shinju is by design meant to contain all that chakra solidifies this point. The Rinnei Sharingan on Madara's forehead is a symptom showing Divine tree and Madara are merged. Cant separate them now. "ALL chakra returns to _MADARA_!"

And Lastly, Black zetsu wouldn't be needed to clutch Madara if Kaguya can just take over Madara from within. Madara cannot under NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCE "explode" from all that chakra because... he _is_ MERGED with _shinjuu_ specifically meant to contain and provide the user ALL the chakra in the world. Which explains his newfound confidence. By design, it _is_ the _HOME_ of _ALL_ that chakra. His body became kaguya's VESSEL (unlike obito) upon absorption. He is Kaguya's HUSK. We know Madara's body didn't explode, he_ transformed_. And he couldn't possibly transform without black zetsu interfering. Fact.

This is as simply as I can put it bro, if you still want to deny all of this shit,  I can't convince you because you _choose_ not to be convinced (because of obvious bias build over the course of the years). Everything I stated in this post is evidence-based.
---------------
-Well this is a _hypothetical _fight between _Rinnei Sharingan_ Madara vs Sasuke, correct lol? If you didn't want Madara to utilize the power of the Rinnei, which goes hand in hand with the tree then I don't see why you would give him the 3rd eye in this hypothetical fight. Might as well have said Double Rinnegan Madara. I just don't get it? lol. The RinneiSharingan is not an ornament, it's an actual doujutsu so if you don't like us entertaining it, just get rid of it altogether in the OP because we hardly have any feats from Madara technically speaking, but what we do have are serious implications of its prowess that was later evident via Kaguya.


----------



## Android (Oct 20, 2020)

Perfect Susano said:


> And a standard mountain level Bijudama


Kurama's Bijuudama that blasted the Otsutsuki's statue across a distance longer than the diameter of the moon is "standard mountain level" ??

You're really are something else


----------



## Altiora Night (Oct 20, 2020)

Hellraiser said:


> Kurama's Bijuudama that blasted the Otsutsuki's statue across a distance longer than the diameter of the moon is "standard mountain level" ??
> 
> You're really are something else


I don’t know why literally every single thing this guy says is inaccurate. 

Last thing I heard is Koji is Jiraiya level.


----------



## Android (Oct 20, 2020)

Altiora Night said:


> I don’t know why literally every single thing this guy says is inaccurate.
> 
> Last thing I heard is Koji is Jiraiya level.


Yeah his opinions are very... controversial...


----------

