# Is Kaido top 3 strongest all time?



## Luffy (Mar 10, 2022)

To start I would like to exclude Imu/Joyboy simply because we know little to nothing about them

Factoring in characters in their prime such as Whitebeard, Roger, Garp, Shiki, Sengoku etc would you say Kaido is top 3 strongest all time?

Reactions: Like 2


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## Fujitora (Mar 10, 2022)

Id say he's up there but idk about to 3 all time.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Seraphoenix (Mar 10, 2022)

Hard to tell with Xebec in the mix.

Reactions: Like 6


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 10, 2022)

of course not

this kill goes to Bowlerhat anyway, before him it was ~equal

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## Oberyn Nymeros (Mar 10, 2022)

Nope.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## IHateAnnoyingJerks (Mar 10, 2022)

Roger, Xebec, Whitebeard are top 3 pirates.

Reactions: Agree 6


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Mar 10, 2022)

IHateAnnoyingJerks said:


> Roger, Xebec, Whitebeard are top 3 pirates.


That's just the last 50 years, let alone the 750 other years since JoyBoy.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mihawk (Mar 10, 2022)

No.

Roger/Whitebeard(prime), Rocks D. Xebec, and Garp (Prime) are in the top 4. 

He has a legitimate shot for top 5 all time, for now. Hell, with Prime Shiki being the monster he was; even that is debatable.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 3


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## Yonatan (Mar 10, 2022)

Almost. Among pirates, I think he ranks 4th below Roger, Whitebeard and Xebec.

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## convict (Mar 10, 2022)

I think he has surpassed Xebec. Going with:

1. Ancient Joyboy
2. Ancient Joyboy's rival (Imu?)
3. Ryuuma
4/5. Roger/WB
6. Kaido
7. Xebec
8. Garp

Then come Prime Ray/Akainu/Shanks/Mihawk/Prime Sengoku etc.

Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 1 | Informative 2 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 12


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## Ayy lmao (Mar 10, 2022)

Original Joy Boy>=Whoever his strongest opponent was>>Xebec =>Roger=Primebeard>Kaido


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## MartyMcFly1 (Mar 10, 2022)

He’s quite impressive, but I seriously doubt it. The pirates I would put above him are: Whitebeard, Roger, Rocks and Shanks.




convict said:


> I think he has surpassed Xebec. Going with:
> 
> 1. Ancient Joyboy
> 2. Ancient Joyboy's rival (Imu?)
> ...


I get the sense that Xebec was the hardest fight Roger ever had. I just can’t see it.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Ayy lmao (Mar 10, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> I get the sense that Xebec was the hardest fight Roger ever had. I just can’t see it.


yea, he's mentioned to be his first and strongest foe.


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## convict (Mar 10, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> He’s quite impressive, but I seriously doubt it. The pirates I would put above him are: Whitebeard, Roger, Rocks and Shanks.
> 
> 
> 
> I get the sense that Xebec was the hardest fight Roger ever had. I just can’t see it.



If Roger and Kaido fought I believe Roger would win but Kaido would give him just as much of a fight as Xebec did. A very blistering extreme difficulty win for Roger.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Skaddix (Mar 10, 2022)

Incomplete Info But I am going to say Hell No.
One Piece World has a whole lot of history.


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## MartyMcFly1 (Mar 10, 2022)

convict said:


> If Roger and Kaido fought I believe Roger would win but Kaido would give him just as much of a fight as Xebec did. A very blistering extreme difficulty win for Roger.


I just view Xebec as above that. He had Prime Whitebeard as his subordinate. I think he’s top 5 all time.

Whatever final confrontation Luffy will have against Blackbeard, I think Rocks Vs Roger was comparable to that.


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## Alex Payne (Mar 10, 2022)

As of current chapter he is in top 5 imo - Roger, WB and Xebec are above, Prime Garp might be just a tad stronger, Shanks/Mihawk/Akainu looking to be close to his level but less impressive overall. Down the line with Luffy and BB reaching their heights he'll drop to top 10.


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## Ren. (Mar 10, 2022)

V said:


> To start I would like to exclude Imu/Joyboy simply because we know little to nothing about them
> 
> Factoring in characters in their prime such as Whitebeard, Roger, Garp, Shiki, Sengoku etc would you say Kaido is top 3 strongest all time?


He is current #1 now.

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheKnightOfTheSea (Mar 10, 2022)

I'd put Roger, Primebeard and Xebec above him for sure.

Prime Shiki, Sengoku, Garp and Ray are maybes, we need more info on them.


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## A Optimistic (Mar 10, 2022)

There’s no way to tell how Kaido compares to Roger/primebeard/xebec tbh

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## Fel1x (Mar 10, 2022)

he is top 1
if we don't count Imu and Joyboy
they are a complete mystery

Reactions: Like 2 | Disagree 1


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## Louis-954 (Mar 10, 2022)

I have to see more from the likes of Xebec, Roger and Garp. We don't know what it looks like for these characters in their prime to truly go all out.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Seraphoenix (Mar 11, 2022)

If we exclude mythical characters we know from the most credible source, Kaido, that the top in recent memory are WB, Roger,Xebec, Shanks, Oden and Kaido.

People like Sengoku, Garp, Rayleigh etc obviously don't feature as Kaido saw all of them up close and didn't deem them worthy of the hokage mountain of fighters.

Reactions: Like 1


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## TrolonoaZoro (Mar 11, 2022)

Kaido's most impressive feat to me is how many people Oda is throwing at him, there is no way to justify him losing this arc aside from the gigantic gauntlet. Everyone was clearly weaker in the island by a good margin.

I don't know how that translates to probably over powered A.P techniques from legends though.

Is the gantlet less impressive if he faces people that can harm him severely a la Oden.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## RossellaFiamingo (Mar 11, 2022)

Kaido is within swinging shot of anyone's Top 5. The people who act like its a crazy notion that he is possible a stronger fighter 1v1 than Newgate or roger need to open up their minds. No one else has the individual combat hype that he does. From what we know of roger, he faced no major combat obstacle to become PK. Any inferences about his individual strength are just that. People scale him to Newgate who is said to be WSM yet, we know from the Ace Novel that his title was more about his way of living/way of piracy. Ie: being the richest, having the biggest crew/army. He isn't the one that people say to bet on in a 1v1. 

I have all Emperors ~ the same applies to Newgate, roger, Xebec, etc. Whoever you think wins when they're all at their absolute best is merely preference. A Prime Newgate was in a deadlock with his contemporaries. We already know he had the biggest crew hence, the argument that his individual strength being notably above others compensated for his crew is false. In fact, the one person who is said to have become an Emperor through sheer individual strength is Kaido, not Newgate. I consider Kaido's crew to be the weakest of the crews we've seen thus far and it's unlikely that Shanks would field an inferior crew to the Beast Pirates. 

For me, wherever you put him, it better be extreme diff against the people you consider the top dogs. Anything less is biased.

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## J★J♥ (Mar 11, 2022)

Luffy
Whitebear
Roger
Oden
Ryuuma
BB
Joyboy


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## Quipchaque (Mar 11, 2022)

Obviously not no. Imu, Dragon, Shanks, Sabo, Luffy, Akainu, Xebec, Mihawk, Roger, Whitebeard and likely Garp,Rayleigh, Shiryu, Beckman are above him. Scopper, Zoro and Sengoku could be above him as well but not sure. Bigger Mom is stated and portrayed as his equal. I'd say Kaido is about as strong as Prime Sengoku/Scopper/mastered ashura Zoro for now.

Ah yes and JJ rightfully mentioned Ryuuma and Oden. Granted Oden is debatable since he died 20 years ago but since his feats are still in hybrid Kaido's head he likely would say Oden is in fact stronger.

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## Seraphoenix (Mar 11, 2022)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> Kaido is within swinging shot of anyone's Top 5. The people who act like its a crazy notion that he is possible a stronger fighter 1v1 than Newgate or roger need to open up their minds. No one else has the individual combat hype that he does. From what we know of roger, he faced no major combat obstacle to become PK. Any inferences about his individual strength are just that. People scale him to Newgate who is said to be WSM yet, we know from the Ace Novel that his title was more about his way of living/way of piracy. Ie: being the richest, having the biggest crew/army. He isn't the one that people say to bet on in a 1v1.
> 
> I have all Emperors ~ the same applies to Newgate, roger, Xebec, etc. Whoever you think wins when they're all at their absolute best is merely preference. A Prime Newgate was in a deadlock with his contemporaries. We already know he had the biggest crew hence, the argument that his individual strength being notably above others compensated for his crew is false. In fact, the one person who is said to have become an Emperor through sheer individual strength is Kaido, not Newgate. I consider Kaido's crew to be the weakest of the crews we've seen thus far and it's unlikely that Shanks would field an inferior crew to the Beast Pirates.
> 
> For me, wherever you put him, it better be extreme diff against the people you consider the top dogs. Anything less is biased.


Second paragraph is a really good take. The title "Great Pirate" isn't doled out like candy by Oda. Even Roger, after beating his greatest rival, was just a Great Pirate.  However, people are caught up in 'legends' nostalgia or try to insert other less relevant characters. The absolute strongest character in the manga at any given time has always been a pirate, with another pirate rival that equals or near equals them.

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## Nighty the Mighty (Mar 11, 2022)

Roger
Whitebeard
Garp
Xebec
Shanks
Big Mom
Kaido
Sengoku

This is my final answer but really the correct take is that everything here is an extreme dif fight and fights are never clean. If they were locked into a white room scenario at their peaks then the bracket would shake out like this, but in the real world if there's any interference (even minor) then, as we have seen multiple times, the outcome can drastically change in an instant.

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## Quipchaque (Mar 11, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> The absolute strongest character in the manga at any given time has always been a pirate, with another pirate rival that equals or near equals them.



Not confirmed ever when Imu and Gorosei are around. Don't make up facts based on narrator boxes. They are not always true as the newest chapter proves yet again.


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## Quipchaque (Mar 11, 2022)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> Big Mom
> Kaido



Bigger Mom above Kaido is a horrible opinion and reeks of bias.

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## Oberyn Nymeros (Mar 11, 2022)

Sick Whitebeard still being stronger than Kaido and Big Mom is a pretty clear indicator that there is a sizeable gap between Roger/PK tier and other top tiers like the other Yonku and the Admirals.

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## Conquistador (Mar 11, 2022)

Quipchaque said:


> Obviously not no. Imu, Dragon, Shanks, *Sabo, Luffy,* Akainu, Xebec, Mihawk, Roger, Whitebeard and likely Garp,Rayleigh, *Shiryu, Beckman* are above him. *Scopper, Zoro* and Sengoku could be above him as well but not sure. Bigger Mom is stated and portrayed as his equal. I'd say Kaido is about as strong as Prime Sengoku/*Scopper*/*mastered ashura Zoro* for now.
> 
> Ah yes and JJ rightfully mentioned Ryuuma and Oden. Granted Oden is debatable since he died 20 years ago but since his feats are still in hybrid Kaido's head he likely would say Oden is in fact stronger.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 14


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## Seraphoenix (Mar 11, 2022)

Quipchaque said:


> Not confirmed ever when Imu and Gorosei are around. Don't make up facts based on narrator boxes. They are not always true as the newest chapter proves yet again.


Show me evidence that they are even close to admirals then we can talk.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Quipchaque (Mar 11, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Show me evidence that they are even close to admirals then we can talk.



Show me evidence that they are not.. You know how shonen works. Don't play dumb for the sake of your agendas. It is not proven until proven otherwise just cause you say so. Otherwise Mihawk>Shanks. Man hypocrite posts like this are exactly the reason why I left your ***** "yonko headquarters" Private chats. You guys can't talk neutrally at all. Pure childish "maah yonko>your admiral" Garbo talk agendas in there.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Mar 11, 2022)

Quipchaque said:


> Bigger Mom above Kaido is a horrible opinion and reeks of bias.


How can an opinion be wrong?

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## Corax (Mar 11, 2022)

Top 4 has Roger/Rocks/WB/Garp. Not talking about Imu etc. So no.

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## Quipchaque (Mar 11, 2022)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> How can an opinion be wrong?



By.. Being wrong? People said in their opinion (in the past)the earth is flat. Whether that was their opinion or not was never relevant. False was false.


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## Seraphoenix (Mar 11, 2022)

Quipchaque said:


> Show me evidence that they are not.. You know how shonen works. Don't play dumb for the sake of your agendas. It is not proven until proven otherwise just cause you say so. Otherwise Mihawk>Shanks. Man hypocrite posts like this are exactly the reason why I left your ***** "yonko headquarters" Private chats. You guys can't talk neutrally at all. Pure childish "maah yonko>your admiral" Garbo talk agendas in there.


That's not how it works. All evidence is on one side of the argument. The narrative is about PK being the strongest. Having the most freedom on the sea. You do that by beating the Yonko, not Imu or the Gorosei. It makes Luffy's journey worthless if at the end of this enormous struggle that we've been watching for over 20 years, the title is meaningless and there is secretly someone else stronger. It's dumb af. 

There is nothing hypocritical about it. You're ironically having a childish meltdown because you can't justify a rubbish take. Grow up, kid. Your woes don't interest me.

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## Nighty the Mighty (Mar 11, 2022)

Quipchaque said:


> By.. Being wrong? People said in their opinion (in the past)the earth is flat. Whether that was their opinion or not was never relevant. False was false.


Did they?  

Are you sure you aren't getting confused about the difference between an opinion and a statement of objective reality?


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Mar 11, 2022)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> How can an opinion be wrong?


That's a silly question. An opinion can be wrong because it's based on faulty logic or isn't built on facts. Not all opinions concern ideas that are subject to individual interpretation such as a favorites.

"Big Mom is the best Yonku" is an opinion that isn't correct or incorrect. If you think she's the most interesting, so be it.

"Big Mom is the strongest Yonku" is also an opinion but an incorrect one since the story indicates otherwise.


Quipchaque said:


> Otherwise Mihawk>Shanks.


Mihawk is stronger than Shanks.

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## Turrin (Mar 11, 2022)

No Kaidou is weaker then Old/Sick Beard, which is a Tier bellow Primbeard, who is likely a Tier bellow Joy Boy

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## nyamad (Mar 11, 2022)

Not top 3, but im going to say dude is up there with Prime legends.

1. Primebeard
2. Roger
3. Xebex
4. Prime Garp
5. Prime Sengoku/Pre sickbeard/Kaido


Then comes the yonko and admirals. If you want to separate the tiers like most do (PK tier, Yonko Tier etc), then Kaido lands within the PK tier bracket.

Kaido feats destroy Big Mom's, there's a reason he has a title like WB did, they are separate exception from the current top tiers. Unlike WB, Kaido didn't get old and sick, and is currently in his prime.


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## o0Shinthi0o (Mar 11, 2022)

Aside from JoyBoY & Imu .Roger , WB ,Garp & Xebec is a must and now

 Luffy


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## MartyMcFly1 (Mar 11, 2022)

Interestingly enough, a lot of the ‘Yes’ folks are very long time members.

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## Mylesime (Mar 11, 2022)

Kaido is great, and lived up to the hype.
Comparable to any elite character in the story, and that's really all that matters. He was so broken that Luffy's victory will ultimately be miraculous (Ace died for less).
I don't think that Oda really care about strict rankings. Ao kiji and Aka inu fought for 10 days, both could have won potentially. 
 Kaido is the first elite top tier that we saw going all out post time skip, with the arc centered around him. Oda avoided highlighting Big Mom's dominance in her fight ( did not focus her molesting the SNs). So he's got the feats , which matches his hype. Him being considered as the current n°1 is fair.

The other absolute top tiers would also  wreak havoc in similar circumstances tough (with specific skillsets obviously). The 5 great pirates he respects so much would do similar stuff in comparable circumstances imo .
He is not top 3 all time (even among pirates WB, Xebec, and Roger have more hype), and he doesn't need to be. He is not the goat, he is a first ballot hall of famer and that's plenty enough.


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## Kylo Ren (Mar 11, 2022)

Top 3 goat.

Roger
Whitebeard
Rocks

Reactions: Agree 1


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## J★J♥ (Mar 11, 2022)

Quipchaque said:


> Obviously not no. Imu, Dragon, Shanks, Sabo, Luffy, Akainu, Xebec, Mihawk, Roger, Whitebeard and likely Garp,Rayleigh, Shiryu, Beckman are above him. Scopper, Zoro and Sengoku could be above him as well but not sure. Bigger Mom is stated and portrayed as his equal. I'd say Kaido is about as strong as Pr


Remember when Mihawk was talking to himself about how he would not hold back against Luffy and proceeded to get humiliated by dying pre ts Luffy ? Good times.


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## Fujitora (Mar 11, 2022)

Quipchaque said:


> Obviously not no. Imu, Dragon, Shanks, Sabo, Luffy, Akainu, Xebec, Mihawk, Roger, Whitebeard and likely Garp,Rayleigh, *Shiryu*, *Beckman* are above him. *Scopper*, Zoro and Sengoku could be above him as well but not sure. Bigger Mom is stated and portrayed as his equal. I'd say Kaido is about as strong as Prime Sengoku/Scopper/mastered ashura Zoro for now.
> 
> Ah yes and JJ rightfully mentioned Ryuuma and Oden. Granted Oden is debatable since he died 20 years ago but since his feats are still in hybrid Kaido's head he likely would say Oden is in fact stronger.


You called me a troll and you spout nonsense like this lol.

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## Kylo Ren (Mar 11, 2022)

~Flow~ said:


> You called me a troll and you spout nonsense like this lol.


I know right? Man out here accusing people of agendas and his take was like this lol

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Fujitora (Mar 11, 2022)

Kylo Ren said:


> I know right? Man out here accusing people of agendas and his take was like this lol


The guy hates Kaido plain and simple, will never aknowledge his feats even if they smacked him in the face.


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## Heart Over Blade (Mar 11, 2022)

It's implied that Joyboy is stronger than current Kaidou.

1. Luffy didn't officially become Joyboy until he Awakened and reached a level of power that would be enough to defeat Kaidou.
2. Kaidou himself implied that if Luffy was Joyboy Luffy would've defeated him, when Kaidou dropped him into the sea.
3. Joyboy is said to have the power to change the world. That's more than what any Yonkou is capable of.

So that leads us to this kind of tier list

God Tier
Joyboy/Imu (Joyboy's adversary)

High top tier
Roger/WB/Xebec/Garp and possibly Prime Shiki
Kaidou is either here or at the top of mid top tier.


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## Dark Knight (Mar 11, 2022)

I doubt his is even top 10. Those motherfuckers in the void century must have been OP as fuck.


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## Ludi (Mar 11, 2022)

No. Prime Roger, Garp, WB, Xebec are already above him for a starter.


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## xmysticgohanx (Mar 11, 2022)

Shiki is above every yonko

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Kroczilla (Mar 11, 2022)

I'm going to go with yes. At the very least, he's definitely in that conversation.


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## Geralt-Singh (Mar 11, 2022)

He's not even top 5 in the current era [Mihawk, Shanks, Akainu, Dragon, Teach, Aokiji, Kizaru]

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## KBD (Mar 11, 2022)

But of course. 

Kaido > Zunisha> Roger> WB


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## Dellinger (Mar 11, 2022)

Yes he is

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## Thdyingbreed (Mar 11, 2022)

convict said:


> I think he has surpassed Xebec. Going with:
> 
> 1. Ancient Joyboy
> 2. Ancient Joyboy's rival (Imu?)
> ...


What’s your justification for placing Ryuuma that high lmao literally nothing in the story indicates him being compareable too much less above a Prime Roger/WB/Xebec.

I’d say Kaido being above Xebec is highly questionable too he was described as being Roger’s greatest enemy and him being a conqueror of conquerors is unmatched portayal.


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## Dellinger (Mar 11, 2022)

It’s laughable to place Shiki above Kaido. Like the wanking of the old gen can’t get any worse


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## Garcher (Mar 11, 2022)

Let's wait how he fares against Joy Boy before we talk about things like "strongest of all time"

Reactions: Agree 1


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## convict (Mar 11, 2022)

Thdyingbreed said:


> *What’s your justification for placing Ryuuma that high lmao literally nothing in the story indicates him being compareable too much less above a Prime Roger/WB/Xebec.*
> 
> I’d say Kaido being above Xebec is highly questionable too he was described as being Roger’s greatest enemy and him being a conqueror of conquerors is unmatched portayal.



My placement of Ryuuma is probably the reason my post generated so much salt from the usual suspects.

Anyway. Why do I place him so high?

- Oden is ultimately the second most well known samurai of Wano and is already a top tier who Kaido considers the absolute cream of the crop and by feats he is. Ryuuma has far more legendary hype and is a more monumental a figure than Oden to the people of Wano. Oden may be the "King" of the Wano samurai in his time but Ryuuma was the "God". Also, unlike Oden, Ryuuma was able to create a black blade
- Ryuuma was unquestionably known as the strongest man in the world of his time.
- Ryuuma singlehandedly protected Wano from infiltration by the World Government or any other threat and his presence left such a lasting mark and trauma to the world government that they stopped going near Wano pretty much forever after that.
- Ryuuma was the main character of Oda's first manga and thus Oda will ensure he is very well regarded

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## Kroczilla (Mar 11, 2022)

convict said:


> - Oden is ultimately the second most well known samurai of Wano and is already a top tier who Kaido considers the absolute cream of the crop and by feats he is. Ryuuma has far more legendary hype and is a more monumental a figure than Oden to the people of Wano. Oden may be the "King" of the Wano samurai in his time but Ryuuma was the "God". Also, unlike Oden, Ryuuma was able to create a black blade


The key word is "hype". Doesn't exactly tell us the gap (if any) between them. Also creating a black blade is something Mihawk has done, but there are several blade users in history who are either on par with or above him and they never managed the feat.


convict said:


> Ryuuma was unquestionably known as the strongest man in the world of his time.


Since when?


convict said:


> Ryuuma singlehandedly protected Wano from infiltration by the World Government or any other threat and *his presence left such a lasting mark and trauma to the world government that they stopped going near Wano pretty much forever after that*


We don't know the quality of the opponents Ryuuma dealt with. Also @bolded is a stretch. Not that it matters as the WG with their fleet at Wano's borders won't dare go in without absolute confirmation of Kaido's defeat. That seems a similar level of hype as Ryuuma's at the very least.


convict said:


> Ryuuma was the main character of Oda's first manga and thus Oda will ensure he is very well regarded


Joyboy wasn't. But you placed him and Imu (another unknown) above Ryuuma. So not sure why this is being brought up as a relevant point

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Pyriz (Mar 11, 2022)

Man to be honest with you, I think this sort of thing is pointless. Once you get to the "top" I think the lines start to blur and the differences in strength are pretty negligible. "Top 3" doesn't mean much to me, because I think the next 3 or 4 people in line are close enough in strength that they might as well be "equal". I'd honestly wager that a fight between anyone in the "top 10 of all time" could go either way

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## Strobacaxi (Mar 11, 2022)

It's time you people take a chill pill. Kaido rivaled old healthy WB. He did not rival prime WB. Which means Primebeard, Roger and Garp remain the top 3, with the only possible intruder being Xebec

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## Shanks (Mar 11, 2022)

Maybe top8ish.

Roger, WB, Xebec, Garp, Shanks, BB, Mihawk ...so about 8th

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## Orca (Mar 11, 2022)

Roger and Whitebeard are the only 2 people from the previous gen that are guaranteed to be stronger. No one else.


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## o0Shinthi0o (Mar 11, 2022)

R u excluding JoyBoY Luffy from the list ? Cause he se above Kaido you know

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Duhul10 (Mar 11, 2022)

Honestly, I objectively voted yes, because he truly might, although I'm not certain and I did not include joyboy or Imu in the ecuation


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## Ludi (Mar 11, 2022)

Pyriz said:


> Man to be honest with you, I think this sort of thing is pointless. Once you get to the "top" I think the lines start to blur and the differences in strength are pretty negligible.


Usually it's quite the opposite really in shonen though.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 11, 2022)

He is yonkou tier, not PK tier


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## MrPopo (Mar 11, 2022)

He's below Whitebeard/Roger/Garp/Xebec


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## tupadre97 (Mar 11, 2022)

he aint even top five the fuck?

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Amol (Mar 11, 2022)

Well obviously not.
Roger, Whitebeard and Garp makes top 3.

Xebec has enough hype to be on 4th place. I mean freaking Whitebeard once was his subordinate.

Kaido is very strong but his plot importance does not even come close to top 3 strongest. We will talk about top 3 when we are at the end of manga. Kaido might not seem that impressive by then.

We have seen similar in arc hype for DD, Katakuri etc. They always look impressive in their own arc.

Beating Luffy few times doesn't put you in top 3 of entire verse. It is not that great of feat. Luffy pretty much loses multiple times to most of his opponents before winning.

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## Ezekjuninor (Mar 11, 2022)

Roger/WB are above him. Garp is debatable but I’d give him the benefit of the doubt. I’d give Rocks the benefit of the doubt too based off of the crew he had and hype as Roger’s greatest rival. So Kaido would be 5th. You could argue that he’s 3rd but I think it would be a losing argument.

Reactions: Like 3


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## DemonDurai (Mar 11, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> I just view Xebec as above that. He had Prime Whitebeard as his subordinate. I think he’s top 5 all time.
> 
> Whatever final confrontation Luffy will have against Blackbeard, I think Rocks Vs Roger was comparable to that.


Nah Bro, Whitebeard, Kaido and Big Mom were not in their prime when they were Xebec's subordinate.


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## KBD (Mar 11, 2022)

I see the elderly care is serving up copium for the loger and LB stans

Reactions: Funny 2


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## T.D.A (Mar 11, 2022)

V said:


> To start I would like to exclude Imu/Joyboy simply because we know little to nothing about them
> 
> Factoring in characters in their prime such as Whitebeard, Roger, Garp, Shiki, Sengoku etc would you say Kaido is top 3 strongest all time?



of all time? No, there's Ryuma plus Roger, WB, Joyboy etc


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## MrPopo (Mar 11, 2022)

KBD said:


> I see the elderly care is serving up copium for the loger and LB stans


It's a manga cannon fact that old Whitebeard is stronger than Kaido

Reactions: Optimistic 3


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## convict (Mar 11, 2022)

KBD said:


> I see the elderly care is serving up copium for the loger and LB stans



It took me a minute to figure out who you were talking about   

I think it is hilarious how simply changing the first letter of a name to L or M has become so popular - and so effectively funny at times.

I still remember the eras of:

Ling
Lueen
Lawkins
Midd

But now we are fully in the Lake, L Drake, and XL Drake age

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 5


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## RayanOO (Mar 11, 2022)

I still have Rogerbeard and Xebec above him


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## Nighty the Mighty (Mar 11, 2022)

convict said:


> It took me a minute to figure out who you were talking about
> 
> I think it is hilarious how simply changing the first letter of a name to L or M has become so popular - and so effectively funny at times.
> 
> ...


 

*L*uffy

it was right in front of our eyes the whole time

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 11, 2022)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> *L*uffy
> 
> it was right in front of our eyes the whole time


Luffy and Law are immune to the L-ization

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## Ayy lmao (Mar 11, 2022)

Quipchaque said:


> Show me evidence that they are not.. You know how shonen works. Don't play dumb for the sake of your agendas. It is not proven until proven otherwise just cause you say so. Otherwise Mihawk>Shanks. Man hypocrite posts like this are exactly the reason why I left your ***** "yonko headquarters" Private chats. You guys can't talk neutrally at all. Pure childish "maah yonko>your admiral" Garbo talk agendas in there.


The gorosei themselves called the Admirals the world government's strongest military force, there is a 0% chance that any of the Gorosei are admiral level or above. 3 Admirals>> 5 Elders.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Pyriz (Mar 11, 2022)

Ludi said:


> Usually it's quite the opposite really in shonen though.


Maybe when you start getting into "godlike" characters who typically exist outside of the previously established "rules" and "power levels". IMO the characters who could potentially fit that trope in OP are the likes of Imu and Joyboy, and that's about it as of right now.


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## Ludi (Mar 11, 2022)

Pyriz said:


> Maybe when you start getting into "godlike" characters who typically exist outside of the previously established "rules" and "power levels". IMO the characters who could potentially fit that trope in OP are the likes of Imu and Joyboy, and that's about it as of right now.


Characters between that God tier and current Yonko are obviously the prime legends like Roger, WB, Xebec etc


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## Seraphoenix (Mar 11, 2022)

convict said:


> It took me a minute to figure out who you were talking about
> 
> I think it is hilarious how simply changing the first letter of a name to L or M has become so popular - and so effectively funny at times.
> 
> ...


Funniest is when a fanbase hopes something for their favourite character and Oda goes the other way. Then you see a lot of Loda.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 8


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## Pyriz (Mar 11, 2022)

Ludi said:


> Characters between that God tier and current Yonko are obviously the prime legends like Roger, WB, Xebec etc


I don't think there's much difference between the "prime legends" and the Yonko of today. I mean, I'd probably give someone like prime Roger the edge over Kaido or Big Mom, but I think they're close enough that it's winnable for either party.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Mihawk (Mar 11, 2022)

Strobacaxi said:


> It's time you people take a chill pill. Kaido rivaled old healthy WB. He did not rival prime WB. Which means Primebeard, Roger and Garp remain the top 3, with the only possible intruder being Xebec



Exactly mate

Reactions: Agree 1 | Neutral 1


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## Dark Knight (Mar 11, 2022)

Kaido would possibly be the  bobbins of Joyboy's crew let alone top 3.


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## Joe Maiafication (Mar 11, 2022)

Top 5, not top 3...


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## Lawliet (Mar 11, 2022)

Kaidou is the absolute strongest character introduced in the series. 

Not Roger or WB can beat this guy. Convince me of otherwise if you believe so.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 5


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## Joe Maiafication (Mar 11, 2022)

Lawliet said:


> Kaidou is the absolute strongest character introduced in the series.
> 
> Not Roger or WB can beat this guy. Convince me of otherwise if you believe so.




Well Shanks did stop him from reaching Marineford.

He was defeated 7 times and captured a couple of times by the Marines.


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## Shanks (Mar 11, 2022)

Lawliet said:


> Kaidou is the absolute strongest character introduced in the series.
> 
> Not Roger or WB can beat this guy. Convince me of otherwise if you believe so.


Kaido, Shanks, Big Mom, Old WB, Luffy split the clouds. Prime Roger and Prime WB completely destroyed the clouds.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 2


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## KBD (Mar 11, 2022)

Joe Maya said:


> Well Shanks did stop him from reaching Marineford.
> 
> He was defeated 7 times and captured a couple of times by the Marines.


The snitch bribed him 

And none of those were 1v1s


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 11, 2022)

Lawliet said:


> Kaidou is the absolute strongest character introduced in the series.
> 
> Not Roger or WB can beat this guy. Convince me of otherwise if you believe so.


lol


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## Lawliet (Mar 11, 2022)

Joe Maya said:


> Well Shanks did stop him from reaching Marineford.
> 
> He was defeated 7 times and captured a couple of times by the Marines.


And? Luffy lost 20 times. Doesn't mean anything

Shanks stopped him? And? Doesn't mean anything. You know what happened between Shanks and Kaidou? 



Shanks said:


> Kaido, Shanks, Big Mom, Old WB, Luffy split the clouds. Prime Roger and Prime WB completely destroyed the clouds.


Yamato said it's the same description Oden wrote in his Journal.


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## Bernkastel (Mar 11, 2022)

Roger,WB,Garp,Xebec,Shikki should be above him.
That's not counting potential people like Imu or the Gorosei.
So No.


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## MrPopo (Mar 11, 2022)

Lawliet said:


> Kaidou is the absolute strongest character introduced in the series.
> 
> Not Roger or WB can beat this guy. Convince me of otherwise if you believe so.


If you read the manga you would see otherwise


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## Ludi (Mar 11, 2022)

Pyriz said:


> I don't think there's much difference between the "prime legends" and the Yonko of today. I mean, I'd probably give someone like prime Roger the edge over Kaido or Big Mom, but I think they're close enough that it's winnable for either party.


If Kaido is at best ~ old WB bow can there be not too much difference? I think you'd be underestimating these differences.

Reactions: GODA 1


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## Dark Knight (Mar 11, 2022)

Absolutely stronger than him: Joyboy, Imu, Prime Roger,Garp, WB, Xebec
Potentially stronger than him: Joyboy's Nakama, Imu's subordinates,shanks.
So no, definitely not in the top 3 and probably not even in the top 10 or 20 all time.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Lawliet (Mar 11, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> If you read the manga you would see otherwise


I did. 

I saw both Roger and WB become the strongest there is. Their era ended it, and just like any other Shonen, the generation that comes after them is going to be stronger. AKA Kaidou & Shanks are 100% stronger than Roger and WB. 

Kaidou is the absolute strongest because he's the reason Luffy reaches top tier status. He's the reason Luffy gained 3-4 power ups in one arc. He is the reason Luffy will be ready to take the weight of the entire world on his shoulders. Hell, we even see that Kaidou is a failed JoyBoy, probably just like Xebec and Teach. 

Teach will surpass Kaidou, but Kaidou up to Wano's invasion was absolutely the strongest and it's been said over and over. The only ones not confirmed to be weaker than him are Roger and WB in their primes. But if we take next generation logic in the equation, we can comfortably say Kaidou is stronger or at least as strong as them.

Or you think Luffy's enemies are going to be weaker than Roger's? Luffy's journey should be a lot harder than Roger and he should achieve what Roger can't.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Pyriz (Mar 11, 2022)

Ludi said:


> If Kaido is at best ~ old WB bow can there be not too much difference? I think you'd be underestimating these differences.


I think Kaido is stronger than old WB


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## Godammit (Mar 11, 2022)

The hell old whitebeard is stronger than Kaido. He couldnt even use Acoc


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## MrPopo (Mar 11, 2022)

Lawliet said:


> I did.
> 
> I saw both Roger and WB become the strongest there is. Their era ended it, and just like any other Shonen, the generation that comes after them is going to be stronger. AKA Kaidou & Shanks are 100% stronger than Roger and WB.


That will happen with Luffy and Blackbeard surpassing Roger and Whitebeard. Furthermore we already know that a old Whitebeard was top dog for the great pirate Era at best kadio is ~ old wb


Lawliet said:


> Kaidou is the absolute strongest because he's the reason Luffy reaches top tier status. He's the reason Luffy gained 3-4 power ups in one arc. He is the reason Luffy will be ready to take the weight of the entire world on his shoulders. Hell, we even see that Kaidou is a failed JoyBoy, probably just like Xebec and Teach.


With whitebeard dead Kaido is now the strongest Yonkou untill Blackbeard surpasses him 


Lawliet said:


> Teach will surpass Kaidou, but Kaidou up to Wano's invasion was absolutely the strongest and it's been said over and over. The only ones not confirmed to be weaker than him are Roger and WB in their primes. But if we take next generation logic in the equation, we can comfortably say Kaidou is stronger or at least as strong as them.


The strongest after Whitebeard died and came to sickness 


Lawliet said:


> Or you think Luffy's enemies are going to be weaker than Roger's? Luffy's journey should be a lot harder than Roger and he should achieve what Roger can't.


We already Luffy will surpass Roger however it is not because of Kaido


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## Lawliet (Mar 11, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> That will happen with Luffy and Blackbeard surpassing Roger and Whitebeard. Furthermore we already know that a old Whitebeard was top dog for the great pirate Era at best kadio is ~ old wb


old WB has 0% chance of beating Kaidou in a 1 vs 1.

Reactions: Like 1


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## KBD (Mar 11, 2022)

@MrPopo out here simping for LB like he was Ace 



At the very least try your hardest not to get a full back sized trampstamp like he did?

Reactions: Funny 6


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## Bobybobster (Mar 11, 2022)

roger/wb are still the greatest pirates of all time. Only comparison you can make are the bounties, and no pirate has surpassed them. Xebec was said to possibly be roger's greatest rival and has strong ties to blackbeard. Hence top 3 are roger/wb/xebec, not including soyboy/imu.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Yumi Zoro (Mar 11, 2022)

Top 5 lol, Cant wait for Shanks to make his move.

If Shanks end UP being the Aizen of this anime...

Everything is going according to keikaku.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Jad (Mar 11, 2022)

Gesus. Wtf does Kaido have to do to be top 3?

You guys have purposely walled him from ever getting through when everyone in your top 3 hasn't even the hype to be on par with Kaido, let alone actual feats that he fills in. Imu could be a delicate wallflower, Roger and WB to me haven't accomomplished Kaido's battle feats, and Xebec is again featless. I hope Xebec is top 3, but he could be a Buggy. As of now, Kaido sits at top 3 based on hype and showings, not including claimless characters...

Reactions: Like 4 | Funny 2 | Winner 2


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## MrPopo (Mar 11, 2022)

KBD said:


> @MrPopo out here simping for LB like he was Ace
> 
> 
> 
> At the very least try your hardest not to get a full back sized trampstamp like he did?


Comming form the man that twerks like Oden in the streets for Kaido

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Fel1x (Mar 11, 2022)

said it many time, gonna say it once again
Old legends hype is based on absolutely nothing
Absolutely nothing indicated Roger, Prime WB or Garp were somewhere higher than casual current Yonko level

actual story only dehypes them. they all lived in low difficulty era. no competition, no one knew about One Piece, no one really wanted to get it. Only 2 Yonko crews, only 2 strong marines. WG did absolutely nothing after Xebec's defeat

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 1 | Disagree 1


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## Eustathios (Mar 11, 2022)

Whitebeard and Roger are confirmed as superior to him.

Prime Garp and Rayleigh, Xebec, Ryuma, etc. all have a decent chance at being stronger. In short no, he isn't.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fel1x (Mar 11, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> Whitebeard and Roger are confirmed as superior to him.


who confirmed it? admiral/zoro stans? oh, legit source


Eustathios said:


> Prime Garp and *Rayleigh*, Xebec, Ryuma, etc. all have a decent chance at being stronger.


Ray
  
Prime Ray is at best 2 minutes fight material for Kaido. Prime Ray is YC1+ level or admiral level. ACoC Luffy>Prime Ray

as for Ryuma, no one really cares about him, including Oda. some mythical character without actual feats.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Disagree 1


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## Eustathios (Mar 11, 2022)

Fel1x said:


> who confirmed it? admiral/zoro stans? oh, legit source


The fact that Kaido could not become the Pirate King and everyone in verse listing WB/Roger as superior to him.


Fel1x said:


> Ray
> 
> Prime Ray is at best 2 minutes fight material for Kaido. Prime Ray is YC1+ level or admiral level. ACoC Luffy>Prime Ray
> 
> as for Ryuma, no one really cares about him, including Oda. some mythical character without actual feats.


Sure he is.


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## Kroczilla (Mar 11, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> The fact that Kaido could not become the Pirate King


Given the role luck/destiny seems to play in becoming Pirate King, I don't think this is a point at all.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Fel1x (Mar 11, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> The fact that Kaido could not become the Pirate King and everyone in verse listing WB/Roger as superior to him.
> 
> Sure he is.


no one ever compared Kaido to WB or Roger
and read my post before your first one
there was no competition during Roger's era
he was the only one who tried to find One Piece. also he was the only one among pirates who even knew about it

but during Yonko era, there were 4 huge pirate crews who wanted pretty much the same - One piece. complete stalemate.
if Roger lived during Yonko era he would be stalemated too. even with Oden


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## KBD (Mar 11, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> Comming form the man that twerks like Oden in the streets for Kaido


B-bruh, I swear to God it's nothing like that 

 

My mom made me go, I dont even like twerking

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Eustathios (Mar 11, 2022)

Kroczilla said:


> Given the role luck/destiny seems to play in becoming Pirate King, I don't think this is a point at all.


Whitebeard was considered the closest man to OP even though he didn't become the PK. It's clear no one saw Kaido as the front runner after Roger’s execution. 

Big Mom tells us she would be PK if she could defeat her opposition (highlighting WB among the rest) with the Elbaf Army. According to Doflamingo, the throne wars have begun as the man who held the reins fell in MF. Pretty strong hints that in Linlin's and Kaido's case it's a matter of strength not luck.


Fel1x said:


> *no one ever compared Kaido to WB or Roger*
> and read my post before your first one
> there were no competition during Roger's era
> he was the only one who tried to find One Piece. also he was the only one among pirates who even knew about it



*Spoiler*: __ 










*Spoiler*: __ 










*Spoiler*: __ 










*Spoiler*: __ 










Fel1x said:


> but during Yonko era, there were 4 huge pirate crews who wanted pretty much the same - One piece. complete stalemate.
> *if Roger lived during Yonko era he would be stalemated too. even with Oden*


Baseless.

Reactions: Like 8


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## Fel1x (Mar 11, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> Whitebeard was considered the closest man to OP even though he didn't become the PK. It's clear no one saw Kaido as the front runner after Roger’s execution.
> 
> Big Mom tells us she would be PK if she could defeat her opposition (highlighting WB among the rest) with the Elbaf Army. According to Doflamingo, the throne wars have begun as the man who held the reins fell in MF. Pretty strong hints that in Linlin's and Kaido's case it's a matter of strength not luck.
> 
> ...


all of this is achievement related thing. Roger found one piece. that's all. but no one talked about strength, no one compared the difficulty of eras.


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## MrPopo (Mar 11, 2022)

Fel1x said:


> no one ever compared Kaido to WB or Roger
> and read my post before your first one
> there was no competition during Roger's era
> he was the only one who tried to find One Piece. also he was the only one among pirates who even knew about it
> ...




Oden by himself can give a Yonkou a good fight, Roger pirates with Oden would defeat any pirate crew bar EoS strawhats


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## Beast (Mar 11, 2022)

Nah, might not even be top 5 if I’m honest. 


Joyboy 
Imu 

Roger 
Garp 
WB 
Rox 

Dragon
Shanks 
Akainu 
Kaidou

So, top 3/5 currently (excluding Joyboy waking up and Imu) but top 10 all time.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fel1x (Mar 11, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> Oden by himself can give a Yonkou a good fight, Roger pirates with Oden would defeat any pirate crew bar EoS strawhats


based on what? Young Kaido who didn't even use Hybrid, didn't have FS and ACoC? ok, nice
Kaido that fought Oden was at best admiral level. most likely YC1+ level

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Eustathios (Mar 11, 2022)

Fel1x said:


> all of this is achievement related thing. Roger found one piece. that's all. but no one talked about strength, no one compared the difficulty of eras.


How is a box reading *THE WORLD'S STRONGEST PIRATE* achievement related?

 How is Buggy saying _*he's without a doubt the strongest pirate in the world as of now*_ achievement related? 

How is Chinjao putting Roger in a pedestal when he asks Luffy if he can _*defeat the Yonkou*_ not strength related? 

They're all direct comparisons with their competitors, Kaido among them. You simply refuse or choose to ignore all the evidence that places Roger and Whitebeard on a league of their own.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Winner 4


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## Kroczilla (Mar 11, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> Whitebeard was considered the closest man to OP even though he didn't become the PK. It's clear no one saw Kaido as the front runner after Roger’s execution.


And yet we know that in actual fact that he wasn't close to it at all. Also according to databooks, WB was the WSM during Roger's lifetime, yet Roger became Pirate King. Obviously there's a huge strength requirement, but it doesn't change the fact that it literally a treasure hunt i.e. luck and destiny play a much larger factor.

Even Mihawk's words hinted at this when he referred to the challenge of becoming Pirate King as being far more perilous than becoming WSS. That tells us nothing of the gap in strength that should exist between the PK and the WSS. 


Eustathios said:


> Big Mom tells us she would be PK if she could defeat her opposition (highlighting WB among the rest) with the Elbaf Army. According to Doflamingo, the throne wars have begun as the man who held the reins fell in MF. Pretty strong hints that in Linlin's and Kaido's case it's a matter of strength not luck.


See above. Big mom would have been able to eliminate all her rivals, gotten their road poneglyphs and used Pudding to find One Piece. Her statement when taken in that light isn't surprising as she would effectively have eliminated all competition and been the only one with a realistic chance in the race. 

As for Doflamingo's statements, given how "unromantic" his views on the world of One Piece have been presented, I don't think it should be taken as anything serious in the context of what it means to be the One Piece, a deeply romantic concept.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Van Basten (Mar 11, 2022)

Definitely not.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Eustathios (Mar 11, 2022)

Kroczilla said:


> And yet we know that in actual fact that he wasn't close to it at all. Also according to databooks, WB was the WSM during Roger's lifetime, yet Roger became Pirate King. Obviously there's a huge strength requirement, but it doesn't change the fact that it literally a treasure hunt i.e. luck and destiny play a much larger factor.
> 
> Even Mihawk's words hinted at this when he referred to the challenge of becoming Pirate King as being far more perilous than becoming WSS. That tells us nothing of the gap in strength that should exist between the PK and the WSS.
> 
> ...


I never said it's not luck related. Strength is the decisive factor though alongside it. It's a pointless debate anyway as the PKs have been shown to be a step above the current Yonkou time after time again.

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Lawliet (Mar 11, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> Whitebeard and Roger are confirmed as superior to him.


How?


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## MrPopo (Mar 11, 2022)

Fel1x said:


> based on what? Young Kaido who didn't even use Hybrid, didn't have FS and ACoC? ok, nice
> Kaido that fought Oden was at best admiral level. most likely YC1+ level


Based on what Kaido thinks of Oden

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kroczilla (Mar 11, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> I never said it's not luck related. Strength is the decisive factor though alongside it. It's a pointless debate anyway as the PKs have been shown to be a step above the current Yonkou time after time again.


We've only ever had one PK, and i don't think we have any indication that he was literally a step above the other Yonko, all of whom are directly stated to of a similar class as the PK's no 1 rival.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Eustathios (Mar 11, 2022)

Kroczilla said:


> We've only ever had one PK, and i don't think we have any indication that he was literally a step above the other Yonko, all of whom are directly stated to of a similar class as the PK's no 1 rival.


See the panels and points above. Everyone in verse considered WB (and by extension) and Roger a class above their competitors. Their portrayal is quite obviously superior.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Fel1x (Mar 11, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> How is a box reading *THE WORLD'S STRONGEST PIRATE* achievement related?
> 
> How is Buggy saying _*he's without a doubt the strongest pirate in the world as of now*_ achievement related?
> 
> ...


words of some weakling who don't know shit. Buggy, lol. also he is biased  cause he was in Roger's crew
Chinjao talked about finding one piece clearly. Cause in order to surpass other Yonko he has to find one piece
world strongest pirate? who? except Kaido who was called strongest more than 3 times
no one called Roger strongest on panel. you even provided some panels where it is clearly indicated that people talked about achievement, no one talked about his strength


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## Fel1x (Mar 11, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> Based on what Kaido thinks of Oden


1) ok. so Oden=Roger and WB based on that. ok. but probably not ok for you cause it goes against your agenda
2) yes, Oden is stronger than Scabbards. and?


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## Nighty the Mighty (Mar 11, 2022)

the Roger pirates would absolutely NOT get stalemated by the Yonkou for literally the same reason that the Strawhats won't be. Roger+Rayleigh+Scopper(+Oden if you count him) would wreck face.

The Redhairs are the most directly analogous but they're a step back from Roger and Shanks is also purposely waiting and lurking like Whitebeard was instead of actively trying to acquire the One Piece.

Blackbeard on the other hand has built his crew like Whitebeard but out of stronger players, and unlike Shanks/Whitebeard, Blackbeard will actually attempt to claim the throne.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Fel1x (Mar 11, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> Oh the irony...


He was called strongest by Zoro and Kidd in this arc
Zoro=weakling. fine for me. very ironic. but let me ask you: what is that dude on your avatar?


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## Kroczilla (Mar 11, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> See the panels and points above. Everyone in verse considered WB (and by extension) and Roger a class above their competitors. Their portrayal is quite obviously superior.


Again, a class above is simply not the case. The story presented them as being of the same calibre relative to one another. Even the book of Ace states that a war between them would destroy both parties involved.

They are all rivals and considered equals. It's one thing to say WB was the strongest of the bunch, but it still doesn't put him in a "separate class"

Reactions: Winner 3


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## Lawliet (Mar 11, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> See the panels and points above. Everyone in verse considered WB (and by extension) and Roger a class above their competitors. Their portrayal is quite obviously superior.



Sure, Roger & WB > Big Mom / Shiki. Their real competitors. 
Kaidou is next era rival. And he obviously surpassed Big Mom and Shiki.. Where does that leave him? Equal to Roger and WB, or stronger. 
The same applies to Shanks. 

Luffy by beating Kaidou establishes himself as stronger than WB. 
Teach by beating Shanks establishes himself as stronger than Roger. 

The two will then buttheads at the final war as the 2 strongest individuals in history.


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## Fel1x (Mar 11, 2022)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> the Roger pirates would absolutely NOT get stalemated by the Yonkou for literally the same reason that the Strawhats won't be.


not? Luffy died this chapter. SH crew just lost. if not magical resurrection and Jesus thing, SH crew would be completely dead


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## Eustathios (Mar 11, 2022)

Fel1x said:


> He was called strongest by Zoro and Kidd in this arc
> Zoro=weakling. fine for me. very ironic. but let me ask you: what is that dude on your avatar?


You're gonna completely ignore the narrator's box and claim Buggy doesn't know anything because he's weak. That sounds like an awful excuse. I just posted several panels showing that everyone in verse considered WB/Roger as the pinnacle of the pirate world, but you don't want to listen. Fine by me, guess I'm done here.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Eustathios (Mar 11, 2022)

Lawliet said:


> Sure, Roger & WB > Big Mom / Shiki. Their real competitors.
> Kaidou is next era rival. And he obviously surpassed Big Mom and Shiki.. Where does that leave him? Equal to Roger and WB, or stronger.
> The same applies to Shanks.
> 
> ...


Please refer to the panels above where WB is explicitly called the strongest pirate in the world, whether by the narrator or other characters. Kaido was a pirate when those statements were made.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Nighty the Mighty (Mar 11, 2022)

Fel1x said:


> not? Luffy died this chapter. SH crew just lost. if not magical resurrection and Jesus thing, SH crew would be completely dead


Unfortunately for you, Roger is stronger than Luffy, Rayleigh is stronger than Zoro and Scopper is stronger than Sanji.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Winner 1


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## Fel1x (Mar 11, 2022)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> Unfortunately for you, Roger is stronger than Luffy, Rayleigh is stronger than Zoro and Scopper is stronger than Sanji.


yeah, that is why it would be stalemate

Reactions: Funny 1 | Informative 1


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## MrPopo (Mar 11, 2022)

Fel1x said:


> 1) ok. so Oden=Roger and WB based on that. ok. but probably not ok for you cause it goes against your agenda


Never said nor does that panel imply that. 


Fel1x said:


> 2) yes, Oden is stronger than Scabbards. and?


Kaido called Oden a monsterious samurai and thought the scabbards could kill him because he saw the vasage of Oden. Kaido is clearly hyping up Oden you're being obtuse


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## Fel1x (Mar 11, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> Please refer to the panels above where WB is explicitly called the strongest pirate in the world, whether by the narrator or other characters. Kaido was a pirate when those statements were made.


WB was called WSM, Kaido was called WSC
WSC>WSM
feats state the same. Kaido would do so much more in MF than WB did

but we are talking about Prime WB, right? cant really compare them cause Kaido was a kid when WB was at his prime.
MF WB was<<any other Yonko
Prime WB~any other Yonko

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Lawliet (Mar 11, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> Please refer to the panels above where WB is explicitly called the strongest pirate in the world, whether by the narrator or other characters. Kaido was a pirate when those statements were made.


King said " Remain to be the strongest "which was yeaaars ago. Meaning King saw Kaidou as the strongest even when WB was alive and healthy.

WB was called the strongest man, Kaidou is not a man my friend. Kaidou is a " thing " even BM doesn't envision losing. 
WB was called the strongest pirate and it was clarified that the statement was meant as " in the way he lived ". Free.

In the world of One Piece, a real pirate is a pirate that is 100% free and lets others be 100% free. Kaidou beats your ass if he says bend the knee and you don't. WB on the other hand would beat your ass if you're causing trouble and lets you choose or not whether to bend the knee  or not.

THAT IS WHY WB is the strongest pirate. Because he follows the true definition of piracy. The same definition Roger / Luffy / Joy Boy follow. But in terms of strength, whether on land, air or sea, this creature is said to be the strongest. Period.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 1 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Kroczilla (Mar 11, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> Please refer to the panels above where WB is explicitly called the strongest pirate in the world, whether by the narrator or other characters. Kaido was a pirate when those statements were made.


Again, even if we take this statement at face value, it's a whole different thing from saying "he's on another class entirely"


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## Kylo Ren (Mar 11, 2022)

Jinbei: PK > mere yonko.

Reactions: Winner 7


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## Eustathios (Mar 11, 2022)

Kroczilla said:


> Again, even if we take this statement at face value, it's a whole different thing from saying "he's on another class entirely"


WB/Roger are confirmed to be above him and the other Yonkou. I hope you get the point I was trying to make.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Nighty the Mighty (Mar 11, 2022)

Fel1x said:


> yeah, that is why it would be stalemate


alright onto the ignore list you go

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 1


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## Kroczilla (Mar 11, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> WB/Roger are confirmed to be above him and the other Yonkou. I hope you get the point I was trying to make.


They are all on the same general lvl/calibre strength wise.

Reactions: Lewd 2


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## Kylo Ren (Mar 11, 2022)

Although, this current era is the hardest you cannot say that the other era is easy cause its also hard, remember that to be able to put an end to Rocks era it needed the greastest marines and Pirates to work together. 

No current single organization (exclude WG) could topple the Rocks pirates era.


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## MYJC (Mar 11, 2022)

Quite possibly. The only people I'd confidently put over Kaido are Roger and prime WB. 

There's possible people like Imu, Dragon, etc. but they're featless.


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## MartyMcFly1 (Mar 11, 2022)

DemonDurai said:


> Nah Bro, Whitebeard, Kaido and Big Mom were not in their prime when they were Xebec's subordinate.


Maybe Kaido wasn’t, I might even give you Big Mom, however Whitebeard was certainly in his prime at least strength wise at that time. 

When he was later able to match Roger blow for blow, Roger wasn’t at all surprised at how powerful he was…as if he had already fought Whitebeard a few different times, likely when he was a part of Rocks.

The way I see it, Rocks’ monster trio consisted of Himself, Whitebeard and Big Mom.


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## Mihawk (Mar 11, 2022)

We haven't even seen what Roger and Primebeard were fully capable of.

Newgate's annoyance at Roger trying to take Oden was enough to shake the islands and surrounding seas. Prime Garp literally punches 8 mountains for his morning exercise, while Rocks was clearly hyped up to be a Pirate King level threat the Roger Pirates and Marines had to team up to eliminate. Then you have guys like Shiki who fought 2 of the legends, and was able to replicate Kaido's island-lifting feat even when he was a shell of his former self...

Kaido repeatedly laments WB's demise and views him and Roger as the peak. An argument can be made that his peak never coincided with theirs, so he was never able to prove his _assumed _superiority by his supporters. However, if we're taking his title as irrefutable proof of his strength, then how can we assume he would've been equal or superior to them if he's unable to show us? Yonko fanboys love to cry foul at anything regarding the Legends or Admirals because they wanna prop up their favourites as the pinnace of what this series has to offer. The Yonko are among the _very strongest_, and Kaido seems to be at the top of the current food chain; but they are not standing at the top of the pyramid in the history of this world. That status still belongs to WB/Roger in prime, ruling out unknown entities like Imu/JB.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Seraphoenix (Mar 11, 2022)

Funny how Buggy is equated with Oda himself, but when Kaido says WB and Roger can compete with him (Not necessarily beat), it's completely ignored.

Reactions: Winner 4


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## Geralt-Singh (Mar 11, 2022)

Someone bump this thread in 3 years

Reactions: Funny 10


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## Seraphoenix (Mar 11, 2022)

Mihawk said:


> Kaido repeatedly laments WB's demise and views him and Roger as the peak. An argument can be made that his peak never coincided with theirs, so he was never able to prove his _assumed _superiority by his supporters. However, if we're taking his title as irrefutable proof of his strength, then how can we assume he would've been equal or superior to them if he's unable to show us? Yonko fanboys love to cry foul at anything regarding the Legends or Admirals because they wanna prop up their favourites as the pinnace of what this series has to offer. The Yonko are among the _very strongest_, and Kaido seems to be at the top of the current food chain; but they are not standing at the top of the pyramid in the history of this world. That status still belongs to WB/Roger in prime, ruling out unknown entities like Imu/JB.


Are we just making things up now? Kaido only lamented that WB was able to die.

He never saw Roger and WB as the peak. He saw Shanks, WB, Roger, Oden and Xebec as the 5 people who could compete with him in a fight. He didn't put WB and Roger in a separate class from himself or the others he pictured. 

There is no combat related statement putting Roger and WB above Kaido. Kaido had the 'invincible' reputation in Oden's flashback. King even said he should keep being the strongest, likely around the time WB was still in his prime. You guys need to stop the nostalgia for legends.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1


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## Eustathios (Mar 11, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Are we just making things up now? Kaido only lamented that WB was able to die.
> 
> He never saw Roger and WB as the peak. He saw Shanks, WB, Roger, Oden and Xebec as the 5 people who could compete with him in a fight. He didn't put WB and Roger in a separate class from himself or the others he pictured.
> 
> *There is no combat related statement putting Roger and WB above Kaido*. Kaido had the 'invincible' reputation in Oden's flashback. King even said he should keep being the strongest, likely around the time WB was still in his prime. You guys need to stop the nostalgia for legends.


False


*Spoiler*: __ 










*Spoiler*: __

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Seraphoenix (Mar 11, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> False
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


The Ace novel clarified that WB was the strongest pirate from the way he lived. In strict 1v1 combat Kaido was > Old WB. This is why it's important to actually read new material instead of clinging to old dogmas.


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## Mihawk (Mar 11, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Are we just making things up now? Kaido only lamented that WB was able to die.


But we're in agreement here. He lamented his demise.


Seraphoenix said:


> *He never saw Roger and WB as the peak*. He saw Shanks, WB, Roger, Oden and Xebec as the 5 people who could compete with him in a fight. He didn't put WB and Roger in a separate class from himself or the others he pictured.


It's all but implied to be honest.

Here's the context:

1) The Yonko couldn't break the stalemate with WB.
2) One of WB and Roger became Pirate King (which 3 of the current Yonko aspire to be). To this end, Big Mom and Kaido actively and continuously up the ante in the arms race in order to acquire military power and such to achieve this.
3) He desires glorious death (which WB got), by wishing to start a greater war than the one WB took part in.


I mean, even in the silhouette you're fond of referencing; we see WB/Roger placed on a pedestal above the other 3  In all seriousness, of course I'm not petty enough to rely on panel placement so that's whatever...

But hey, we can debate that list all day. Not something I wanna get into, but it's up to you.


Seraphoenix said:


> There is no combat related statement putting Roger and WB above Kaido.


Exactly. Plot > Powerlevels.

What we know is that Garp stated the Yonko are in stalemate with one another. We see this when an Old WB clashes equally with Shanks. We know this when Shanks is able to intercept Kaido from reaching MF. We know this when Big Mom states that she requires the strongest military nation in the world on her side, just so she can break that stalemate with the rest of them. We see this when Big Mom and Kaido stalemate each other on and off-panel, replicating the casual feat that Shanks/WB pulled off in their relatively non-hostile meeting .

All this supports the notion that they're equal, requiring no less than extreme-diff...even if Kaido was the strongest among them (or Shanks), it'd be by a hair. And then you have WB and Roger in their primes, whom are indisputably above a 70 year old Whitebeard.


Seraphoenix said:


> Kaido had the 'invincible' reputation in Oden's flashback. King even said he should keep being the strongest, likely around the time WB was still in his prime. You guys need to stop the nostalgia for legends.


I mean "invincible" is pretty broad bro. It can be an allusion to his nigh-indestructible durability (supported by his introduction). Shanks was stated to be "unstoppable" when he's angry. Whitebeard was stated to be the "strongest pirate", with the reputation of being able to "destroy the world".

Any of the Yonko qualify for being contenders for the absolute "strongest".

King idolised Kaido and followed him out of undying loyalty. Ace believed WB was the strongest and wanted to make him "the king" too.


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## Kroczilla (Mar 11, 2022)

I think there's a need to draw a distinction between Old WB and Old Sick WB.

Reactions: Agree 5


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## trance (Mar 11, 2022)

kaido is weaker than roger, WB and probably xebec and shanks

so no


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## DemonDurai (Mar 11, 2022)

Pyriz said:


> I don't think there's much difference between the "prime legends" and the Yonko of today. I mean, I'd probably give someone like prime Roger the edge over Kaido or Big Mom, but I think they're close enough that it's winnable for either party.


Totally agreed with you. This ain't no DB super


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## Ludi (Mar 11, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> Baseless


Not just baseless, but also absolutely wrong

Reactions: Like 3


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## sanji's left eye (Mar 11, 2022)

convict said:


> I think he has surpassed Xebec. Going with:
> 
> 1. Ancient Joyboy
> 2. Ancient Joyboy's rival (Imu?)
> ...


Help me not just assume you're fanboying here. What makes you put Ryuuma that high?

On topic: Obviously not. Kaido isn't stronger than prime Roger, Whitebeard, Rocks, or Garp. Even excluding Joyboy and Imu, there's just no way he is there. Hell isn't BM virtually equals with him?



Quipchaque said:


> Bigger Mom above Kaido is a horrible opinion and reeks of bias.


Bruh you put Luffy (who Kaido killed like 4 times this arc), Sabo, Shiryu, and Beckman above him. Pot meet kettle my guy,


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## Ruse (Mar 11, 2022)

Just outside the top 3. only got WB, Roger and Xebec above him.


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## The crazy hacker (Mar 11, 2022)

Imu, Roger, Xebek, Ryuma, Joyboy and WB are above him (Old and Prime WB)

IMO Garp and Rayleigh are on par with him but i would put Kaido very slightly above them.

Based on statements its confirmed that old WB>Kaido but its hard to believe considering Kaidos feats blow WBs out of the water.


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## Ludi (Mar 11, 2022)

Geralt-Singh said:


> Someone bump this thread in 3 years


Yea I can imagine it is gonna be mad funny

Reactions: Like 1


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## sanji's left eye (Mar 11, 2022)

Jad said:


> Gesus. Wtf does Kaido have to do to be top 3?
> 
> You guys have purposely walled him from ever getting through when everyone in your top 3 hasn't even the hype to be on par with Kaido, let alone actual feats that he fills in. Imu could be a delicate wallflower, Roger and WB to me haven't accomomplished Kaido's battle feats, and Xebec is again featless. I hope Xebec is top 3, but he could be a Buggy. As of now, Kaido sits at top 3 based on hype and showings, not including claimless characters...


Because it's a story. Feats don't matter. Portrayal does. And portrayal shows Roger/WB are the pinnacle. And Garp was one of Roger's rivals, again portrayal. Rocks was Roger's greatest foe. Again, portrayal. Kaido is most certainly not top 3, but as another poster said, when you're at this point the difference between 1 and 5 is likely negligible.

Reactions: Winner 3


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## 9TalesOfDestruction (Mar 11, 2022)

No.  Roger, Whitebeard and Oden were all stronger than him.  Which is why he is still mad about how he beat Oden.


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## Perrin (Mar 11, 2022)

Nah. Not top three current.


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## Ren. (Mar 11, 2022)

o0Shinthi0o said:


> R u excluding JoyBoY Luffy from the list ? Cause he se above Kaido you know






Seraphoenix said:


> Funniest is when a fanbase hopes something for their favourite character and Oda goes the other way. Then you see a lot of Loda.


That fanbase has 2 mods and can't shut up about ZKK.

So yeah.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## featherine augustus (Mar 11, 2022)

As someone who is a big time kaido fan and top 6 in all of anime/manga -- No

--Imu/Joyboy
--EOS BB
--EOS Luffy
--Roger
--WB
--Garp
--Rox 

All the guys above are going to be more powerful than him ; then you have shanks , dragon and other EOS characters which have chance above kaido

Kaido is current WSM for most part though not taking imu


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Mar 11, 2022)

What accomplishments put Kaido as top 3 of all time?

Reactions: Like 3


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## Ren. (Mar 11, 2022)

featherine augustus said:


> As someone who is a big time kaido fan and top 6 in all of anime/manga -- No
> 
> --Imu/Joyboy
> --EOS BB
> ...


EOS Luffy God tier SSS.

Don't sleep on his name.


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## SomnusUltima (Mar 11, 2022)

no way EOS Luffy top1 in verse, Imu 100% stronger, BB likely stronger (luffy win with some 10x plot bullshit as always)

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Enies Lobby (Mar 11, 2022)

I'm really shocked Kaido got that many votes 
I still remember the time when people were ganging up on me for saying Kaido > Marineford Whitebeard

Reactions: Like 2


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## Shunsuiju (Mar 11, 2022)

Hell nah

Reactions: Agree 1


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## IchLiebe (Mar 11, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> of course not
> 
> this kill goes to Bowlerhat anyway, before him it was ~equal


Winners need no excuses.

Rocks got ganged up on by 2 top tiers.


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## Quipchaque (Mar 11, 2022)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Sick Whitebeard still being stronger than Kaido and Big Mom



Nice trolling. No SICK top tier will ever be stronger than Kaido/Bigger Mom.


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## Dunno (Mar 11, 2022)

Im, Joy Boy, Ryuuma, Roger, Rayleigh, Whitebeard, Shanks, Mihawk, Xebec, Akainu, Aokiji and Garp are all stronger than him. And that's only the people we know. He's probably somewhere around place 50 of all time, but hey, that's not too bad.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 3 | Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 1 | Dislike 1


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## Quipchaque (Mar 11, 2022)

Quipchaque said:


> Obviously not no. Imu, Dragon, Shanks, Sabo, Luffy, Akainu, Xebec, Mihawk, Roger, Whitebeard and likely Garp,Rayleigh, Shiryu, Beckman are above him. Scopper, Zoro and Sengoku could be above him as well but not sure. Bigger Mom is stated and portrayed as his equal. I'd say Kaido is about as strong as Prime Sengoku/Scopper/mastered ashura Zoro for now.
> 
> Ah yes and JJ rightfully mentioned Ryuuma and Oden. Granted Oden is debatable since he died 20 years ago but since his feats are still in hybrid Kaido's head he likely would say Oden is in fact stronger.



@Hdw
@


J★J♥ said:


> .



@blueWaves

If you spite rate my perfectly justifiable post for not saying Kaido is above basically everyone llike you probs would want me to or cause I rank characters you dislike higher than you want to then at least step up and bring proper arguments. Otherwise you look like petty goofy gang members. Spite ratings don't help your credibility nor arguments.



Ayy lmao said:


> The gorosei themselves called the Admirals the world government's strongest military force, there is a 0% chance that any of the Gorosei are admiral level or above. 3 Admirals>> 5 Elders.



The gorosei currently no of course not. Prime ones in case Bonney theory comes true...? Certainly. No doubt. Besides who argued that the collective admirals are weaker? I was mostly talking about their general level in assumed prime state. It is also a title not up to date. Prime gorosei are very likely a stronger collective. Admirals currently being younger and thus a stronger collective has no bearing on that.



Strobacaxi said:


> It's time you people take a chill pill. Kaido rivaled old healthy WB. He did not rival prime WB. Which means Primebeard, Roger and Garp remain the top 3, with the only possible intruder being Xebec



If what the novel says is true then old healthy Whitebeard is weaker than most top tiers. Which should be obvious anyway given that we call him ..you know.. OLD. Or do you just ignore what Mihawk and Marco say too...? How about Crocodile...? Ah yeah my bad they all just lying of course. Even Whitebeard himself obviously just a liar. Only Sengoku and Garp are correct of course!!


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## Sherlōck (Mar 11, 2022)

He is top 3 among current top tiers not all time.


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## blueWaves (Mar 12, 2022)

Quipchaque said:


> @blueWaves
> 
> If you spite rate my perfectly justifiable post for not saying Kaido is above basically everyone llike you probs would want me to or cause I rank characters you dislike higher than you want to then at least step up and bring proper arguments. Otherwise you look like petty goofy gang members. Spite ratings don't help your credibility nor arguments.



Kaido isn't even one of my favorite characters. He wouldn't even rank in my top 15, or even 20 favorite OP characters. I don't hate Kaido, but he's not one of my favorites.

The reason I did that was because you have multiple characters that don't have any business being above Kaido. Dragon and Mihawk have no business being above Kaido atm. They haven't shown anything for them to be above Kaido. Maybe they will during the final arc, but right now Kaido gets the edge. It's even worse with Beckman, Shiryu, and Scooper. Suggestion they could be above Kaido is laughable. Give Kaido is due.

If this is EoS Luffy, that's understandable. But current Luffy is not above Kaido. The narrator literally just said Kaido won. Kaido defeated Luffy multiple times now. Current Zoro is not equal to Kaido. He damaged him yes, but not to the point Kaido was in danger. Luffy and Zoro will surpass Kaido (typical power creep) but they are not at that level yet. They are still below them him.

I'm not saying Kaido is top 3, because he's not. Roger, WB, and Garp are above Kaido. And yes, I know Garp hasn't shown much either, but he was a direct peer to Roger in his prime. He definitely gets the benefits of the doubt.

If you don't like Kaido, that's perfectly fine. But to say he is not top 10 right now in power is just hating on the guy.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Perrin (Mar 12, 2022)

Nah, not even top ten

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Mar 12, 2022)

Quipchaque said:


> Nice trolling. No SICK top tier will ever be stronger than Kaido/Bigger Mom.


Whitebeard was the strongest though. Call me again when Big Mom or Kaido splits an island with the byblow of their moves or fights through their head being burned open.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MrAnalogies (Mar 12, 2022)

People seem to have a misunderstanding of how tiers work.

If I have for example, A tier (which includes 5 people), and B tier below that includes 5 people, everybody within that specific tier can give everyone else within that tier a very difficult fight at worst, or win high dif at best. You can't have 5 characters within the same tier and then claim the 5th person gets completely thrashed 10/10 by the other 4. Doesn't work like that. Because if that was the case, the 5th period shouldn't really be in that tier at all.

If you play competitive fighting games, you already understand what I'm talking about. Similarly, in terms of pure sternum, speed, etc, whether you're discussing athletes, fighters, or fictional characters, people within one tier are within a similar ballpark. You wouldn't have Kizaru, who moves at light speed, at #1 in A tier and then have a character who can barely move faster than sound in A tier as well. There's an astornomical difference. Or a guy who can bench 300 and a guy who can bench 150. The first guy is literally twice as strong so how the hell are they the same tier if strength?


In regards to Kaido, he has the hype, feats, portrayal, and record to back up being top 3 more than any other character unless you have an agenda. He defeated Oden in his base form (although there was interference). He 1-shotted Luffy who had just defeated a commander level opponent. He survived a clash with shanks with no injuries. Duked it out with big mom for an entire day. Took on 5 super novas at once. Has been fighting almost non stop for 40+ chapters. 

He revealed to Luffy he can't even remember the last time someone seriously pushed him in a 1v1. Kaido has a good memory and can easily recall events from when he was as young as 15. So do the math. If he's saying Luffy is the first person in ages to seriously push him 1v1 making him go all out, that would strongly suggest the losses he suffered were group battles, being jumped, etc. Which, again, ties into his hype and portrayal. People say to always bet on him because whenever it becomes a 1v1 slug fest, he wins. And that has held true so far. 

Big Mom has so much respect for him, she laughed at the idea of him losing and said the straw hats won't be able to defeat "that thing" (defending him behind his back without needing to) . Those are pretty ominous words for someone who was at God valley and clashed with the likes of Roger, Garp, etc and knew her own captain xebecs strength first hand. 

His durability, endurance, and ferocity are without question at the very top. His insane fears speak for themselves. The Ace novel hammered the point home that he was probably the fiercest in direct combat. WB's vivre card also admits his title wasn't just about raw strength, but how WB lives his life and the fact his devil fruit is so dangerous.

Kaido is firmly in A tier in terms of raw power and fighting ability. Nobody is beating him without extremely high dif.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1


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## MrAnalogies (Mar 12, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Funny how Buggy is equated with Oda himself, but when Kaido says WB and Roger can compete with him (Not necessarily beat), it's completely ignored.


Because of agendas. 

Apparently Buggy's statement about WB is gospel, but the narrator box is just pure speculation. We have king, Zoro, and killer all calling kaido the strongest, but people ignore that. The vivre cards, Ace novel, etc all clarify things but people tap dance around that too. 

Cherry picking.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## shintebukuro (Mar 12, 2022)

This topic is a joke.

In 2 years from now, we'll be deep into the next arc; learning about Vegapunk, Ancient Weapons, the RA, flashbacks of God Valley...etc

And Kaidou will never even cross your mind as some "ultimate" character.

Don't feed the Kids/Trolls.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## sanji's left eye (Mar 12, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> People seem to have a misunderstanding of how tiers work.
> 
> If I have for example, A tier (which includes 5 people), and B tier below that includes 5 people, everybody within that specific tier can give everyone else within that tier a very difficult fight at worst, or win high dif at best. You can't have 5 characters within the same tier and then claim the 5th person gets completely thrashed 10/10 by the other 4. Doesn't work like that. Because if that was the case, the 5th period shouldn't really be in that tier at all.
> 
> ...


With that said, the Pirate King, two of his rivals (WB and Garp), and Rocks all still have far superior portrayal than Kaido, which is why he is not top 3. Kaido is likely on their level though I'll give you that.


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## MrAnalogies (Mar 12, 2022)

sanji's left eye said:


> With that said, the Pirate King, two of his rivals (WB and Garp), and Rocks all still have far superior portrayal than Kaido, which is why he is not top 3. Kaido is likely on their level though I'll give you that.


It's actually the complete opposite. In terms of portrayal Kaido has way more than all of those characters.

Roger: a few panels of him drawing a sword and clashing with Oden and WB. A scene of him rushing at Shiki with no conclusion. The most famous character in the show and we do not have a single scene of him actually conclusively defeating a named opponent.

Garp: a couple of gag scenes of him punching Luffy, flashback of him owning chinjao. I might be missing something but we don't have much else.

Rocks: literally nothing.

WB: has some very good feats and showings at marineford, but he shared the spotlight with dozens of other very important characters. Defeated giant John, beat up teach and Akainu, died. Not much else.

We've seen kaido fighting non stop for , 40 chapters and he has fought at least 20 named characters who all have decent to great feats. The only character we know has fought not one, not two, but three different yonko and survived, drawing with one and defeating another. He has had more on screen battles, feats, and portrayal than any other yonko or top tier and it's not even close.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 2


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Mar 12, 2022)

My mans Kaido is still depressed he cannot live up to Sick Whitebeards final battle and death.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## RayanOO (Mar 12, 2022)

Prime Luffy, Prime BB, Prime WB, Roger, Xebec, Joyboy, Prime Garp, Prime Coby

I have them above Kaido for all time

Imu, Ryuma, Prime Oars have a shot too


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## rext1 (Mar 12, 2022)

EOS Sanji will have better feats than Kaido by End of Series.

Kaido will get stomped by Joyboy Basic form whilst other Top Tiers will be fighting Joy Man/Saiyan God 3 form Luffy.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Quipchaque (Mar 13, 2022)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Whitebeard was the strongest though



Not in old age. Nowhere stated nor implied. Contradicted flatout by the novel instead.



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Call me again when Big Mom or Kaido splits an island with the byblow of their moves or fights through their head being burned open.



Destruction doesn't mean much unless you believe the Alabasta bomb was secretly the strongest "character". Zunisha literally stomps through cities with 1 foot ...strongest character in all of One Piece by your logic.


Kaido and Bigger Mom are more durable so naturally they wouldn't fight through their head being burned. They'd outright tank it with minimal damage. Or fly out of it's way or simply react better thanks to better reflexes and fully functioning haki+stamina. Besides Whitebeard basically died cause of that since the wound was fatal or weakened him enough to give Blackbeard a quick and easy kill so...


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## Dellinger (Mar 13, 2022)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Whitebeard was the strongest though. Call me again when Big Mom or Kaido splits an island with the byblow of their moves or fights through their head being burned open.


Kaido literally ripped an island much bigger than MF casually. Didn’t even need to try

Reactions: Winner 2


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## MrPopo (Mar 13, 2022)

Dellinger said:


> Kaido literally ripped an island much bigger than MF casually. Didn’t even need to try


That was a fresh Kaido after Kaido took some damage he started losing control of the Island

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Dellinger (Mar 13, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> That was a fresh Kaido after Kaido took some damage he started losing control of the Island


Yes and ? Didn’t Kaido also straight up pierced through the island in the previous chapter ? Half of Hakai also was bigger than Onigashima 

WB was incredible even at old age but Kaido has eclipsed him. No shame in that

Reactions: Winner 1 | Neutral 1


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## Djomla (Mar 13, 2022)

Well, no.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 13, 2022)

not top 5 all-time
maybe not even  top 10 all-time when the manga is done


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Mar 13, 2022)

Dellinger said:


> Kaido literally ripped an island much bigger than MF casually. Didn’t even need to try


Yeah and Whitebeards powers sent ripples across the entire Grandline; I'm speaking of actual combat feats. 

Picking up the island is great, but none of his actual attacks have been at the level of Whitebeards.


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## YonkoDrippy (Mar 13, 2022)

Roger, Whitebeard, Garp and arguably Xebec are all stronger than him.

Kaido is probably Top 5 strongest of all time tho


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Mar 13, 2022)

Dellinger said:


> Half of Hakai also was bigger than Onigashima


The Big Mom half of Hakai is just the Spear of Elbaf which certainly isn't half of Onigashima. No reason to assume Kaido's half (which is is likely just Thunder Bagua based on stance) is at the level to smash half an island. 

There is a reason they combined their strength; neither has shown they can come close to that level of destructive power on their own. Hakai is like the result of the multiplication and not addition - 5 x 5 not 5 + 5


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## Tsukuyomi (Mar 13, 2022)

Ehh more like top ten cause:
Imu, Joyboy, Prime Garp, Prime WB, Prime Roger, Mihawk, Shanks, Akainu, Xebec are all stronger than him. 

(Edit: Fuck he is not even top ten cause I forgot lads like Aokiji, Prime Rayleigh, Dragon and Oden ).

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


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## TheWiggian (Mar 13, 2022)

All time? Doubt he even makes top 10.

Luffy
BB
Sakazuki
Roger
WB
Garp
Zoro
Ryuma
Imu
Joyboy
Shiki
Sengoku
Aokiji
Kizaru
Issho
Ryokugyu
Dragon
Mihawk
Shanks
Rayleigh
Oden 
Kong
Zunesha

And several other characters have a chance of surpassing him. Gorosei, Sabo, Sanji, Kid, Law, Coby, Yamato et cetera.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## Tsukuyomi (Mar 13, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> All time? Doubt he even makes top 10.
> 
> Luffy
> BB
> ...


He is not even top 20

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## TheWiggian (Mar 13, 2022)

Code said:


> He is not even top 20



Those are pretty much guaranteed to be stronger and so many that will likely surpass him.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Dellinger (Mar 13, 2022)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Yeah and Whitebeards powers sent ripples across the entire Grandline; I'm speaking of actual combat feats.
> 
> Picking up the island is great, but none of his actual attacks have been at the level of Whitebeards.


So piercing through Onigashima isn’t at the level of WB ? Also picking an island is a great feat because it’s just complements his powers. Don’t want to know what would happen if he dropped it on someone


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## Tsukuyomi (Mar 13, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> Those are pretty much guaranteed to be stronger and so many that will likely surpass him.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TheWiggian (Mar 13, 2022)

Code said:


>



I know, a dark day for fans of WS titles... Oh nevermind I meant just his fans.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Dellinger (Mar 13, 2022)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> The Big Mom half of Hakai is just the Spear of Elbaf which certainly isn't half of Onigashima. No reason to assume Kaido's half (which is is likely just Thunder Bagua based on stance) is at the level to smash half an island.
> 
> There is a reason they combined their strength; neither has shown they can come close to that level of destructive power on their own. Hakai is like the result of the multiplication and not addition - 5 x 5 not 5 + 5


Fulgora has an extreme range and attacking power so no. Also Hakai is different, it’s mostly based on his kongo Kabura attack he used on Yamato. Still the attack was much bigger than Onigashima.

Kaido has shown better stuff than WB, don’t know why you try to boost WBs to extraordinary proportions. Splitting an island isn’t better than lifting it up or piercing through it. His Tsunami feat is insane also but again I wouldn’t call it that far better than Kaidos feats

Teach literally pulled the same feats and he still is weaker than Kaido

Kaido can take much more punishment, can go on for longer and can actually use his Haki at insane levels constantly. MF WB

Reactions: Like 1


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Mar 13, 2022)

Dellinger said:


> So piercing through Onigashima isn’t at the level of WB ?


No, thats small potatoes compared to having the byblow of an attack split an island. Remember, Whitebeard wasn't even aiming down with that attack....he hit Akainu in mid air and even with Akainu soaking damage the shockwave split the island.





Dellinger said:


> Also picking an island is a great feat because it’s just complements his powers. Don’t want to know what would happen if he dropped it on someone


Yeah and the complement to Whitebeard is kicking up tsunamis to swallow islands and causing natural disasters across the seas without trying.





Dellinger said:


> Kaido can take much more punishment


That remains to be seen. Kaido has take a lot of damage but as much as Whitebeard did at Marineford?  Did you forget the insane damage total that didn't even factor in the hits from Akainu and Kizaru which included half his head being torn open?


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## Dellinger (Mar 13, 2022)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> No, thats small potatoes compared to having the byblow of an attack split an island. Remember, Whitebeard wasn't even aiming down with that attack....he hit Akainu in mid air and even with Akainu soaking damage the shockwave split the island.


You do realise Kaidos boro breath wasn’t an all out assault on the island, it was it breaking through Luffys guard right ? So Akainu soaks the attack but Luffy isn’t ?


Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Yeah and the complement to Whitebeard is kicking up tsunamis to swallow islands and causing natural disasters across the seas without trying.


Teach did those feats and he is still weaker than Kaido.


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## Canute87 (Mar 13, 2022)

Top 7.


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## TheWiggian (Mar 13, 2022)

Fulgora is weak as fuck, couldn't do shit to Killer and Kid just like the maser crap homie combo that couldn't put Ulti down.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 1


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Mar 13, 2022)

Dellinger said:


> You do realise Kaidos boro breath wasn’t an all out assault on the island, it was it breaking through Luffys guard right ? So Akainu soaks the attack but Luffy isn’t ?


Boro Breath is literally bigger than Luffy; even if Lluffy tanked it the blast is still traveling past him towards the ground where it was aimed.

It'd be comparable to Whitebeard if Kaido aimed it horizontally and still split Onigashima beneath him.


Dellinger said:


> Teach did those feats and he is still weaker than Kaido.


So? That's just the complement to Whitebeards power. 

You already know what I think Whitebeards best offensive feat is.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dellinger (Mar 13, 2022)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Boro Breath is literally bigger than Luffy; even if Lluffy tanked it the blast is still traveling past him towards the ground where it was aimed.
> 
> It'd be comparable to Whitebeard if Kaido aimed it horizontally and still split Onigashima beneath him.


The quake was bigger than Akainu also so again your point seems weird. Not to mention that Gura works completely different that anything else we’ve seen


Oberyn Nymeros said:


> So? That's just the complement to Whitebeards power.
> 
> You already know what I think Whitebeards best offensive feat is.


Does it ? Teach literally pulled the exact same feats, has another top tier fruit and he’s still weaker than Kaido. Who looks more favourable here ?

when we break down Kaidos and MF WBs feats you could argue than WB has the scale since it’s the only fruit that can pull that shit but Kaido is certainly far more versatile and has the Haki and endurance to push through

at no point does old WB look better than Kaido.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Mar 13, 2022)

Dellinger said:


> The quake was bigger than Akainu also so again your point seems weird. Not to mention that Gura works completely different that anything else we’ve seen
> 
> Does it ? Teach literally pulled the exact same feats, has another top tier fruit and he’s still weaker than Kaido. Who looks more favourable here ?
> 
> ...


Teach did not split open Marineford dude.


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## TheNirou (Mar 13, 2022)

Kaido isn't above Oldbeard according to the manga.

He is weaker than Xebec, Primebeard, Roger, Garp, Shiki and Sengoku.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Dellinger (Mar 13, 2022)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Teach did not split open Marineford dude.


Tiltin and causin Tsunamis all over to Sabondy are better feats than splittin MF. Kaido is still called stronger

I know many try to wank old WB because of Akainu but I did not expect that from you.

Teach with the exact same fruit, plus 2 year experience plus Yami Yami is still weaker than Kaido. Some outright ignore that


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Mar 13, 2022)

Dellinger said:


> Tiltin and causin Tsunamis all over to Sabondy are better feats than splittin MF. Kaido is still called stronger


In terms of personal combat I disagree. In terms of sheer scale, yes but we're talking about fighting here.

Tilting the ground is a utility move similar to Diamante making the ground flap around like cloth....or at least that's how Whitebeard used it for personal combat. 

Yes it can affect an army and yes it can destroy terrain and buildings, but for a one on one it just serves to knock your opponent off balance. 


Dellinger said:


> I know many try to wank old WB because of Akainu but I did not expect that from you.
> 
> Teach with the exact same fruit, plus 2 year experience plus Yami Yami is still weaker than Kaido. Some outright ignore that


Yeah it's because it's really impressive. Two shotting Akainu and cracking an island with the byblow of your attack is insane.....what, are you one of those who puts Akainu at like Katakuri level or something?

Dude, let Teach be. He'll surpass Kaido when we see him but this is about Whitebeard.


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## Quipchaque (Mar 13, 2022)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> No one else has the individual combat hype



Yeah if you consider fake hype that is and have 0 hindsight. There is no point in pretending he is close to top 5 when he himself already lists 5 people that he secretly knows are stronger than him. Then there are characters that he fought who are definitely stronger simply by scaling them like Dragon, Rayleigh, Mihawk and Garp and you instantly realize he simply isn't anywhere near top 5. now if you are saying he can give a top 5 fighter a good fight I'd agree but anything else is simply not true. Luffy is currently whooping his ass nonstop bro and he literally "mastered" King's haki at most a few hours ago. His peer Bigger Mom lost agaonst two people who are individually even below that. These things should be taken into consideration when you scale Kaido not just his fluff about supposedly being the strongest and the strongest "animal" and unkillable. Those were never even all true as we know by now. 



RossellaFiamingo said:


> who act like its a crazy notion that he is possible a stronger fighter 1v1 than Newgate or roger need to open up their minds.



Those people simply realized... that it is in fact crazy. Just like people realized it would be crazy for Doflamingo to be as strong as Aokiji when gear 4 Luffy whooped him. Prime newgate is flatout stated strongest pirate and Roger was hyped even above that as the pirate king. And their hype was at least true unless we consider Imu then that becomes debatable of course but certainly far less debatable than for the one with so blatantly fake hype that not even in-verse anyone but fodders seem to believe it.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Quipchaque (Mar 13, 2022)

TheNirou said:


> Kaido isn't above Oldbeard according to the manga



Never stated. Show proof. Your "proof" is probably his prime hype since you seem to have a rather "a***age" reading conprehension. Here is the thing: when people and the narrator call him the strongest man they don't talk about his current condition but about his hype that carried over to the mid gen. None of those people even fought old Whitebeard as far as we know except for Shanks and Ace. And Shanks clashed evenly with him while Ace has no clue about top tiers scaling other than heresay which means little for accurate rankings. They also may not even know that Kaido has a dragon devil fruit and that power is what people/the narrator hype above any form of "man" which makes them think Kaido is invincible and kinda removes him from the equation of the wsm title anyway. Whitebeard himself outright admits that his hype means nothing cause of old age but of course you accidentally ignore that..



Shiba D. Inu said:


> not top 5 all-time
> maybe not even  top 10 all-time when the manga is done



Now let's scale Kizaru would ya? Are you finally a good poster or do you still cherrypick about those kind of statements. Gonna unignore you to see that. Let's see it. 

And no rate and run please I am just asking you for your approximate scaling of 1 character that you used to overhype like crazy.



Code said:


> Ehh more like top ten cause:
> Imu, Joyboy, Prime Garp, Prime WB, Prime Roger, Mihawk, Shanks, Akainu, Xebec are all stronger than him.
> 
> (Edit: Fuck he is not even top ten cause I forgot lads like Aokiji, Prime Rayleigh, Dragon and Oden ).



Finally someone who gets it. Good post!

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Yonko RedHair Shanks (Mar 13, 2022)

Of course.
He has everything, feats, portrayal, statements, hype and even Oda made Kaido above the plot armor and killed the main character.

Some who put several characters above Kaido are missing several things and only put them above because literally Oda with Kaido broke their bubbles/agendas and when a person feels he lost and is not right the first thing is denial.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 3


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## KennethLT (Mar 24, 2022)

Easily top 5. Very easily. Roger, Primebeard, Kaido and Shanks are all in the same tier of power, regardless of who is stronger than who.  Still not above them tho since nothing states so, since he views them as people who can go toe to toe with him.

This literally can change later down the line if he is stated to be weaker or stronger.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Joker55 (Mar 24, 2022)

Top 4 or 5.

1-Xebec
2-Roger
3-WB
4-Shanks or Kaido
5-Shanks or Kaido.


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## ShWanks (Mar 24, 2022)

Easily
1.Joyboy
2.Ryuma
3.Kaido
4.Linlin
5.Whitebeard
Runner-up- Roger/Xebec

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Disagree 2


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## Subtle (Mar 24, 2022)

It's too early to know how many will end up stronger but currently...

The top 4 are:

Roger
Whitebeard
Xebec
Garp


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## Quipchaque (Mar 25, 2022)

KennethLT said:


> Easily top 5. Very easily



No. Go home *alk there.


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## Duhul10 (Mar 25, 2022)

Now, it seems more and more likely, that if we exclude Joyboy and Im who I'd rank as gods ( we'll see about Im though ).


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## Marciano (Mar 25, 2022)

For nothing


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## Mercurial (Mar 25, 2022)

Hell no

Imu
EoS Luffy
EoS Teach
Nika/Joy Boy
Prime Xebec
Prime Roger
Prime Whitebeard
Prime Garp
EoS Zoro
Prime Ryuma

All definitely stronger than him

Akainu
Dragon
Mihawk
Shanks
Prime Sengoku
Prime Rayleigh
EoS Sabo
EoS Law
EoS Kidd

Possibly if not most likely stronger than him

So no, not even top 15/20 lol

Reactions: Like 3 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## ShWanks (Mar 25, 2022)

Imagine having every ability Roger has + a Top Tier Fruit of the highest class + a more physically gifted body, being called the WSC, a bounty only 500,000 berry less than Whitebeard despite being 20 yrs younger, and people still say you aren't top 5... That's worse than people who claim Roger > WSM Whitebeard when Whitebeard equalled him without using his fruit smh.

Lol 75 % Kaido is so broken that Oda needed to introduce a gag character to defeat him in 1v1 combat. Popeye would solo One Piece verse and Kaido's gonna push him to extreme diff.


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## Mihawk (Mar 25, 2022)

I've got Kaido on the same level as Shiki, give or take. Maybe a little better, maybe a little worse.

This is based on some parallels I've noticed between the 2 in the narrative:

-Both have the ability to make an island float/lift it;
-Both were fellow Rocks members who later on became Emperor level threats in their own right;
-Both strived for world domination, and were obsessed with acquiring military power to achieve this;
-Both competed against Roger/WB (in Kaido's case, he was competing against their legacy), but ultimately came up short;
-Both were salty/disillusioned with not getting another crack at the Pirate Kings;
-Both attempted to storm MF to try and end their respective rivals (for Shiki it was Roger, for Kaido it was Oldbeard);
-Both were cockblocked in the attempt (for Kaido it was Shanks, for Shiki it was Garp/Sengoku);
-Both ended up imprisoned in Impel Down, but Shiki ended up worse for wear while Kaido escaped repeatedly.

So yeah, Kaido would've been a contender with Primebeard and Roger in the Old Era, but would've most likely still came up short to them.

I have no idea where to rank guys like* Joy Boy, Ryuuma, Oars, *or other mythical figures like *Imu* or speculated versions of* Current Blackbeard,* but I definitely have *Roger/Primebeard, Rocks D. Xebec, and Prime Garp *ahead of Kaido.

Guys like *Shiki, Sengoku*, and of course *Big Mom *were probably on the same level. Depending on how strong *Shanks* turns out to be (and since I have *Mihawk* and *Prime Ray *as his equals), *Akainu's* relatively unknown status in the future, complete enigmas like *Dragon*, and wildcards like *Kong (prime), *I genuinely have a hard time picturing Kaido as the 3rd strongest character of all time. Guys like *Loki *are probably weaker, since being an Elbaf giant should certainly mean he's a nonhuman creature.

He has the most substantial case _at the moment, _for being the strongest one alive. However, when all is said and done; he could very well end up anywhere in the top 10 (barring EoS versions of the main cast) all time.

Overall, I've got him as an easy lock for the top 10 all time; and a solid contender for top 5 status. With Oda introducing more and more godlike figures and heavyweights into the story, top 3 placement only seems to be further and further away..


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