# Why have young people in Japan stopped having sex?



## rajin (Oct 20, 2013)

Arm?s length: 45% of  Japanese women aged 16-24 are ?not interested in or despise sexual  contact?. More than a quarter of men feel the same way. Photograph: Eric  Rechsteiner

 	            	    Ai Aoyama is a   and relationship counsellor who works out of her narrow three-storey  home on a Tokyo back street. Her first name means "love" in Japanese,  and is a keepsake from her earlier days as a professional dominatrix.  Back then, about 15 years ago, she was Queen Ai, or Queen Love, and she  did "all the usual things" like tying people up and dripping hot wax on  their nipples. Her work today, she says, is far more challenging.  Aoyama, 52, is trying to cure what Japan's media calls _sekkusu shinai shokogun_, or "celibacy syndrome".
Japan's  under-40s appear to be losing interest in conventional relationships.  Millions aren't even dating, and increasing numbers can't be bothered  with sex. For their government, "celibacy syndrome" is part of a looming  national catastrophe. Japan already has one of the world's lowest birth  rates. , which has been shrinking for the past decade, is projected to plunge a . Aoyama believes the country is experiencing "a flight from human intimacy" ? and it's partly the government's fault.
The  sign outside her building says "Clinic". She greets me in yoga pants  and fluffy animal slippers, cradling a Pekingese dog whom she introduces  as Marilyn Monroe. In her business pamphlet, she offers up the  gloriously random confidence that she visited North Korea in the 1990s  and squeezed the testicles of a top army general. It doesn't say whether  she was invited there specifically for that purpose, but the message to  her clients is clear: she doesn't judge.
Inside, she takes me  upstairs to her "relaxation room" ? a bedroom with no furniture except a  double futon. "It will be quiet in here," she says. Aoyama's first task  with most of her clients is encouraging them "to stop apologising for  their own physical existence".
The number of single people has reached a record high. A survey in 2011 found that  were not in any kind of romantic relationship, a rise of almost 10% from five years earlier.   had never dated at all. (There are no figures for same-sex  relationships.) Although there has long been  a pragmatic separation of  love and sex in Japan ? a country mostly free of religious morals ? sex  fares no better. A survey earlier this year by the   (JFPA) found that 45% of women aged 16-24 "were not interested in or  despised sexual contact". More than a quarter of men felt the same way.
                                      			 				Learning to love: sex counsellor Ai Aoyama, with one of her clients  and her dog Marilyn. Photograph: Eric Rechsteiner/Panos Picture 			              Many people who seek her out, says Aoyama, are deeply confused. "Some  want a partner, some prefer being single, but few relate to normal love  and marriage." However, the pressure to conform to Japan's  anachronistic family model of salaryman husband and stay-at-home wife  remains. "People don't know where to turn. They're coming to me because  they think that, by wanting something different, there's something wrong  with them."
Official alarmism doesn't help.   than any year on record. (This was also the year, as the number of  elderly people shoots up, that adult incontinence pants outsold baby  nappies in Japan for the first time.) Kunio Kitamura, head of the JFPA,  claims the demographic crisis is so  serious that Japan "might  eventually perish into extinction".
Japan's under-40s won't go  forth and multiply out of duty, as postwar generations did. The country  is undergoing major social transition after 20 years of economic  stagnation. It is also battling against the effects on its already  nuclear-destruction-scarred psyche of 2011's earthquake, tsunami and  radioactive meltdown. There is no going back. "Both men and women say to  me they don't see the point of love. They don't believe it can lead  anywhere," says Aoyama. "Relationships have become t


COMPLETE ARTICLE THERE


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## Mael (Oct 20, 2013)

Probably because of animu/manga and their inability to grasp women having a more independent spirit.


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## dr_shadow (Oct 20, 2013)

It's 'cause reality doesn't measure up to their tentacle soapland fantasies. 

Someone had to say it, and this time it was me. ^^


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## Saishin (Oct 20, 2013)

Too many hentai that's why


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## Deleted member 234422 (Oct 20, 2013)

Mael said:


> Probably because of animu/manga and their inability to grasp women having a more independent spirit.



This is so true in JAV's.


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## Hyperion1O1 (Oct 20, 2013)

Blaming eroge


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## rajin (Oct 20, 2013)

BROTHERS read the complete article first: yeah virtual world affecting them a lot.


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## Vermin (Oct 20, 2013)

i wouldn't be interested in sex either if hentai was constantly shoved in my face every day


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## Almesiva Moonshadow (Oct 20, 2013)

> For their government, "celibacy syndrome" is part of a looming national catastrophe. Japan already has one of the world's lowest birth rates. Its population of 126 million, which has been shrinking for the past decade, is projected to plunge a further one-third by 2060.


*
The planet is overpopulated anyway. 

People should stop mating like fucking rabbits.


Governments complain when people have too many children.


Governments complain when people don't have any children at all.


The governments should make their bloody minds up already.*


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## Babby (Oct 20, 2013)

_Well when you have so much fucking hentai shoved at you every day. Kinda stops having the charm._


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## Hyperion1O1 (Oct 20, 2013)

Almesiva Moonshadow said:


> *
> The planet is overpopulated anyway.
> 
> People should stop mating like fucking rabbits.
> ...



The problem is what country are those goverments making those complaints from

Too few in Japan, too many in China


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## Ennoea (Oct 20, 2013)

Too much bullshit. The whole thing is basically hilarious and has come about due to Society, well you reap what you sow Japan.


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## Azure Flame Fright (Oct 20, 2013)

Kind of dumb to say that Hentai is the cause for this unless you think that women in Japan are watching more of it than men, because the women are more influenced by whatever the cause.


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## dynasaur (Oct 20, 2013)

Almesiva Moonshadow said:


> *
> The planet is overpopulated anyway.
> 
> People should stop mating like fucking rabbits.
> ...


Most Japanese don't have that many kids though, I have friends from Japan who are the only child in their families.


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## dr_shadow (Oct 20, 2013)

rajin said:


> BROTHERS read the complete article first: yeah virtual world affecting them a lot.



Would have been good to post the whole article then. Caf? rules:

-People never click links.

-People don't read articles that are not in a quote box.

-People don't read long articles that are not segmented into easy-to-process units (if there are headlines in the original, *bold* them).

Then there is of course the sheer amount of articles in the Caf?. If you were lucky enough to have someone even click your thread (needs an interesting title), then you have about five seconds to hook them in before they go back to the menu. So the first paragraph must appear interesting and easy to understand, and the text as a whole must not look like it would take a whole day to read.

I can post the whole thing for you in my suggested format if you like.


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## Sherlōck (Oct 20, 2013)

Send some Indians in Japan.


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## dr_shadow (Oct 20, 2013)

*Part 1*



> *Ai Aoyama is a sex and relationship counsellor who works out of her narrow three-storey home on a Tokyo back street. Her first name means "love" in Japanese, and is a keepsake from her earlier days as a professional dominatrix. Back then, about 15 years ago, she was Queen Ai, or Queen Love, and she did "all the usual things" like tying people up and dripping hot wax on their nipples. Her work today, she says, is far more challenging. Aoyama, 52, is trying to cure what Japan's media calls sekkusu shinai shokogun, or "celibacy syndrome".*
> 
> Japan's under-40s appear to be losing interest in conventional relationships. Millions aren't even dating, and increasing numbers can't be bothered with sex. For their government, "celibacy syndrome" is part of a looming national catastrophe. Japan already has one of the world's lowest birth rates. Its population of 126 million, which has been shrinking for the past decade, is projected to plunge a further one-third by 2060. Aoyama believes the country is experiencing "a flight from human intimacy" ? and it's partly the government's fault.
> 
> ...


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## dr_shadow (Oct 20, 2013)

*Part 2*



> The sense of crushing obligation affects men just as much. Satoru Kishino, 31, belongs to a large tribe of men under 40 who are engaging in a kind of passive rebellion against traditional Japanese masculinity. Amid the recession and unsteady wages, men like Kishino feel that the pressure on them to be breadwinning economic warriors for a wife and family is unrealistic. They are rejecting the pursuit of both career and romantic success.
> 
> "It's too troublesome," says Kishino, when I ask why he's not interested in having a girlfriend. "I don't earn a huge salary to go on dates and I don't want the responsibility of a woman hoping it might lead to marriage." Japan's media, which has a name for every social kink, refers to men like Kishino as "herbivores" or soshoku danshi (literally, "grass-eating men"). Kishino says he doesn't mind the label because it's become so commonplace. He defines it as "a heterosexual man for whom relationships and sex are unimportant".
> 
> ...


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## Almesiva Moonshadow (Oct 20, 2013)

Codea said:


> Most Japanese don't have that many kids though, I have friends from Japan who are the only child in their families.



*And taking the entire economic crisis which struck recently into consideration, having one kid is more then enough since it's pretty damn hard to raise anything above that properly and with ease unless you want to float on the edge of bankruptcy all until your kid(s) is capable of raising themselves, lest you want to end up like China where having above two children is your maximum. Squeezing out a couple of kids is easy, raising them is a completely different matter, I don't really blame them if they chose to have one kid or no kids whatsoever.


I doubt that the entire "virtual reality taking over people's lives" is the only factor in question here.*


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## Bishop (Oct 20, 2013)

You guys do realize it's mostly women, who have a much lower readership of manga and sex literature than men. There are papers on this that point to the high paranoia of possible pain and rape in the viewpoint of women.


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## Ennoea (Oct 20, 2013)

I think anyone saying it's due to manga is abit of an idiot.


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## MartyMcFly1 (Oct 20, 2013)

Japanese women sound emotionally cold and frigid. Japanese men sound moist and timid. I wonder if this eventually happens to all societies as the standard of living increases to such an extent.


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## Hyperion1O1 (Oct 20, 2013)

Ennoea said:


> I think anyone saying it's due to manga is abit of an idiot.



I said that earlier along with anime.

But then I edited it out because someone might take me seriously


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## MartyMcFly1 (Oct 20, 2013)

It could be their diet.

Japanese people consume a ton of soy.

From one study:

"Asian populations consume large quantities of soy food that contained isoflavones such as genistein and daidzein (6). Mean serum or plasma concentrations of isoflavones in Japanese men are 10 to 100 times higher than those in men from the United Kingdom (7) and Finland (8). Moreover, Morton et al. (9) reported a higher concentration of daidzein in the prostatic fluid of Asian men than in Western men. Genistein and daidzein exhibit anticarcinogenic properties and estrogenic activity in vitro and have shown a protective effect against prostate cancer development in some animal studies (6)."

From Dietary Isoflavones May Protect against Prostate Cancer in Japanese Men 



It could be that the Japanese diet confers protection against prostate and other forms of cancer, but that it comes with a price - it may cause a feminization of men and lower libido.

The problem is that the most recent and comprehensive research on isoflavones at the doses Asian people consume them does not show that they have any feminizing effect in terms of testosterone or sex drive at all. I wonder if eventually research will confirm there is some impact, but we'll see.

Also, even if this is a factor, would it explain the trend of Japanese young people withdrawing from sex and marriage? Are they eating more soy than their parents did at their age?


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## dr_shadow (Oct 20, 2013)

I will read the whole article before posting.
I will read the whole article before posting.
I will read the whole article before posting.
I will read the whole article before posting.
I will read the whole article before posting.
I will read the whole article before posting.
I will read the whole article before posting.
I will read the whole article before posting.
I will read the whole article before posting.
I will read the whole article before posting.
I will read the whole article before posting.
...


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## Bishop (Oct 20, 2013)

That is true, Marty, which means the America stereotype of Asians being weak and feminism because of lack of testosterone would be  more true.


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## Mael (Oct 20, 2013)

Almesiva Moonshadow said:


> *
> The planet is overpopulated anyway.
> 
> People should stop mating like fucking rabbits.
> ...





Hyperion1O1 said:


> The problem is what country are those goverments making those complaints from
> 
> Too few in Japan, too many in China





Almesiva Moonshadow said:


> *And taking the entire economic crisis which struck recently into consideration, having one kid is more then enough since it's pretty damn hard to raise anything above that properly and with ease unless you want to float on the edge of bankruptcy all until your kid(s) is capable of raising themselves, lest you want to end up like China where having above two children is your maximum. Squeezing out a couple of kids is easy, raising them is a completely different matter, I don't really blame them if they chose to have one kid or no kids whatsoever.
> 
> 
> I doubt that the entire "virtual reality taking over people's lives" is the only factor in question here.*



But Hyperion is very right in regards to the fact it's some nations breeding like rabbits (and no it's not racist...crude yes...but not racist) like China and India and others who simply have a culture that is finding itself harder to compensate with a changing culture amongst females and the creature comforts of non-relationship sexual pleasure to accomplish the ends.  Japan is already bizarre in its sexual culture and this is just a sign of things coming to a head.  Japan is also like a lot of other more developed nations in the sense that the more intellectual/intelligent a couple is, the more likely they'll have fewer kids.  Developments or not, China and India have a ton of uneducated who simply reproduce like it was second nature, I mean it's even seen in a lot of white rural families.



MartyMcFly1 said:


> It could be their diet.
> 
> Japanese people consume a ton of soy.
> 
> ...



Suck on that, sushi lovers. 

Korean BBQ is superior anyway.


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## Ennoea (Oct 20, 2013)

Korean's love soy too and those guys are sex maniacs.


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## the_notorious_Z.É. (Oct 20, 2013)

Seems like the people there are delusional and they are all trying very hard to convince themselves that their forever alone and working from sun to sun lives are happy.


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## Bishop (Oct 20, 2013)

Ennoea said:


> Korean's love soy too and those guys are sex maniacs.



Not so with the soy, Koreans are hardcore with the beef and milk...hardcore. I've been many times and have yet to meet someone who doesn't famcy their local BBQ shop. Hell, it's one of the only places I've been where the whole meal can be meats.


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## Nikushimi (Oct 20, 2013)

Too much fapping to Itachi.


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## Ennoea (Oct 20, 2013)

China isn't really breeding like rats though. India is though and with the cost of raising up children being pretty cheap, the trend will continue. Unlike Japan where between work commitments, female freedoms, there seems to be a lack of interest in having many children. Not to mention it being seen as a burden, esp to the female in the relationship. 

Japan is so repressive, the older generation has fucked the Country up.


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## Mael (Oct 20, 2013)

Ennoea said:


> Korean's love soy too and those guys are sex maniacs.





Bishop said:


> Not so with the soy, Koreans are hardcore with the beef and milk...hardcore. I've been many times and have yet to meet someone who doesn't famcy their local BBQ shop. Hell, it's one of the only places I've been where the whole meal can be meats.



That's what I'm fuckin' talkin' about.  Every meal I had in Seoul was packed with just about all the food groups you want and while they do like soy, they have the wherewithal to make it a complete package with shredded veggies, carbs, proteins, etc.

Oh and their women are fucking gorgeous...best in all of East Asia. pek



Ennoea said:


> China isn't really breeding like rats though. India is though and with the cost of raising up children being pretty cheap, the trend will continue. Unlike Japan where between work commitments, female freedoms, there seems to be a lack of interest in having many children. Not to mention it being seen as a burden, esp to the female in the relationship.
> 
> Japan is so repressive, the older generation has fucked the Country up.



When India overtakes China in population, I'll be closer to your mindset but as it stands since the 1950s the Chinese were the welterweight champs in overbreeding.


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## SLB (Oct 20, 2013)

the_notorious_Z.?. said:


> Seems like the people there are delusional and they are all trying very hard to convince themselves that their forever alone and working from sun to sun lives are happy.



I don't know. A lot of the people being interviewed in this do not strike me as people incapable of achieving this if they wanted. These forever along lives, for whatever reason, are seriously attractive to these people.

I don't think it's a delusion when so many people are finding solace in lifestyles like this. It doesn't look like they're trying hard at all. Some of the people interviewed stated quite comfortably stated they've been approached and seriously turned offers down.

They actually enjoy this lifestyle.


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## Mael (Oct 20, 2013)

The forever alone lifestyle is attractive to Japanese men because they're not showing fortitude in adapting to a woman who doesn't want to be a doormat "Yamato Nadeshiko."


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## Bishop (Oct 20, 2013)

Mael said:


> That's what I'm fuckin' talkin' about.  Every meal I had in Seoul was packed with just about all the food groups you want and while they do like soy, they have the wherewithal to make it a complete package with shredded veggies, carbs, proteins, etc.
> 
> Oh and their women are fucking gorgeous...best in all of East Asia. pek



Forgot you've been too.

I don't know about the best in East Asia; Macau has shit on lock...


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## Mider T (Oct 20, 2013)

Come on OP, quote tags, use them.

And Japanese males are beta is fuck.  Quite frankly, their lack of testosterone is pathetic.


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## MartyMcFly1 (Oct 20, 2013)

Mael said:


> The forever alone lifestyle is attractive to Japanese men because they're not showing fortitude in adapting to a woman who doesn't want to be a doormat "Yamato Nadeshiko."



I dunno, Japanese women are still far more feminine than their western counterparts.



Mider T said:


> Come on OP, quote tags, use them.
> 
> And Japanese males are beta is fuck.  Quite frankly, their lack of testosterone is pathetic.



I agree with this.

Feminization of the men seems to me the most likely hypothesis. 25 percent of men being uninterested in sex is an impossibly high number.

They've fallen far from the days of Musashi Miyamoto. Have you ever read the book 'Black Passenger Yellow Cabs'? I have a brother who lives in Japan and from what I understand if you're at all masculine in Japan getting girls there is like looting a convenience store while everyone else is waiting in the checkout line.


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## Mider T (Oct 20, 2013)

And Korean women are probably the worst looking out of all East Asian women, it's no wonder that their population is so small.  The language is annoying too.


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## ninjaneko (Oct 20, 2013)

Well, maybe Japan will push incentives to bring in more people from other countries, simultaneously helping their economy and relieving the overpopulation of other countries. The cultural effects of that would be...interesting.


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## Bishop (Oct 20, 2013)

All this talking about how beta Jap men are when Ken is banned


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## Ennoea (Oct 20, 2013)

Japanese men are idiots, all that hot ass and it's going to waste.


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## Blue_Panter_Ninja (Oct 20, 2013)

Bishop said:


> You guys do realize it's mostly women, who have a much lower readership of manga and sex literature than men. There are papers on this that point to the high paranoia of possible pain and rape in the viewpoint of women.


Which papers?


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## Mael (Oct 20, 2013)

av said:


> You could, theoretically, blame this on the fact that middle class life are boring and pointless as fuck. Middle class people generally have no sense of self-worth, and rightfully so. After the war, they could pretend they contributed to saving the world and such. Now they just answer phone calls in a call center and have time for little else. They are bored with themselves and the people around them, despising both.
> 
> What a surprise.
> 
> ...



Boo hoo life goes on.  Lots of other nations have middle class and you don't see them running into the same issues.  Russia is in the shitter because of its own alcoholism and internal issues.  Europe isn't suffering because of a middle class syndrome.  I don't see how this is the exceptional case in regards to Japan.

Also this isn't the age of Nobunaga.


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## Mael (Oct 20, 2013)

Mider T said:


> And Korean women are probably the worst looking out of all East Asian women, it's no wonder that their population is so small.  The language is annoying too.



Trolling aside, my bottom dollar says you've been exposed to complete shit.


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## Mider T (Oct 20, 2013)

Seoul is complete shit then.  C'est la vie.


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## Mael (Oct 20, 2013)

I beg to differ considering how I've been in Seoul too.

I have pictures to also prove it.  I just think you're trolling Mider and frankly I don't know where you're coming from with this nor any good explanation.


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## Bishop (Oct 20, 2013)

Hmm, I've been to Seoul a few times (only 3), the women are in the top 2 in SA. I'm a woman, so I may be looking at it wrong, but I'd say, figure,sexiness, and common sense wise:

Macau is #1
South Korea is #2
Taiwan is #3


EDIT: South Korea...not North...(I'm fuckin up)


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## Mael (Oct 20, 2013)

North Korea?

You mean South.


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## Mael (Oct 20, 2013)

av said:


> You think the US middle class is truly happy with their lives? I use the US, because:
> 
> 1. We both live here (and a large percentage of the board understands what life is like here).
> 2. It's a first world country.
> ...



This has been life for some time, honestly.  It was even this in the 20th century.  So very few ever get what they want and even then, SOME people choose simplicity and sometimes those who are in the upper echelons still don't get what they want.

I just think it's a lame excuse to explain for Japan.


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## Mider T (Oct 20, 2013)

Mael said:


> I beg to differ considering how I've been in Seoul too.
> 
> I have pictures to also prove it.  I just think you're trolling Mider and frankly I don't know where you're coming from with this nor any good explanation.





How am I trolling?  Japanese girls are more attractive than Korean ones, do you want me to post universal standards of what worldwide people generally consider attractive?


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## Language of Life (Oct 20, 2013)

From what i hear they are to busy licking each others eyeballs to feel intimacy to even think about having sex. I mean why would anyone want to mash their genitals together when you could just lick each others eyeballs and share some conjunctivitis?  


*Spoiler*: __ 



Serious response: Why are they so worried about low birth rates? Are they starting to see a shortage of labor? Or maybe they need soldiers for their increasingly active military?


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## Mael (Oct 20, 2013)

Mider T said:


> How am I trolling?  Japanese girls are more attractive than Korean ones, do you want me to post universal standards of what worldwide people generally consider attractive?



Saying they're the worst without a shred of explanation.  That's how.



av said:


> I don't disagree with the bolded part. I do think it's happening all over the developed world to some degree.
> 
> We all know Japan is all kinds of fucked up, and there are unique factors in play, but I think it's wrong to isolate this topic to grorious Nippon.



You're right about that, but in Asia this seems to be a pressing issue.


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## HolyHands (Oct 20, 2013)

From what I've seen, a lot of the aversion towards marriage is that it's basically seen as the moment your life stops being exciting. Instead of the freedom and money of a single life, all you get in a marriage is a soul less job, a sexless relationship, screaming kids, and no free time. 

Obviously that's not every marriage, but that seems to be the prevailing view of it in Japan.  And there hasn't been much effort towards making the family life attractive, instead people just get pressured or shamed into it. I can understand why people are starting to rebel.


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## Linkofone (Oct 20, 2013)

Its because Women want to actually have jobs and not be housewives.


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## Bishop (Oct 20, 2013)

HolyHands said:


> From what I've seen, a lot of the aversion towards marriage is that it's basically seen as the moment your life stops being exciting. Instead of the freedom and money of a single life, all you get in a marriage is a soul less job, a sexless relationship, screaming kids, and no free time.
> 
> Obviously that's not every marriage, but that seems to be the prevailing view of it in Japan.  And there hasn't been much effort towards making the family life attractive, instead people just get pressured or shamed into it. I can understand why people are starting to rebel.



This is also becoming the prevailing view in US, and certain areas of Europe.


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## Mael (Oct 20, 2013)

Linkofone said:


> Its because Women want to actually have jobs and not be housewives.



Japanese men apparently all want Hinata Hyugas as wives.


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## Mider T (Oct 20, 2013)

Mael said:


> Saying they're the worst without a shred of explanation.  That's how.



I understand you're gaga for Korea, have a Korean girlfriend, read Korean history, etc.  I get it.  But they aren't more attractive.  Do you want me to post universal standards of what worldwide people generally consider attractive?  That's the explanation right there.


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## Linkofone (Oct 20, 2013)

Mael said:


> Japanese men apparently all want Hinata Hyugas as wives.



Or Sona. 

Honestly I feel like that would be nice.


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## Mael (Oct 20, 2013)

Mider T said:


> I understand you're gaga for Korea, have a Korean girlfriend, read Korean history, etc.  I get it.  But they aren't more attractive.  Do you want me to post universal standards of what worldwide people generally consider attractive?  That's the explanation right there.



I think it was also your comment about Hangul I found bizarre too.

It was just bizarre how hostile you got when you have really little explanation behind it, even this.



Linkofone said:


> Or Sona.
> 
> Honestly I feel like that would be nice.



Is that the woman in your sig?


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## Mider T (Oct 20, 2013)

Mael said:


> I think it was also your comment about Hangul I found bizarre too.
> 
> It was just bizarre how hostile you got when you have really little explanation behind it, even this.



I'm not hostile   That doesn't even make any sense, you accused me of trolling yet I'm the hostile one?  Trolls rile up reactions in others, so which is it?  

It seems like I'm starting to upset you, so I won't bring it up again.


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## Linkofone (Oct 20, 2013)

Mael said:


> Is that the woman in your sig?



The Blue Haired Mute girl with a heart of gold. Yes.


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## the_notorious_Z.É. (Oct 20, 2013)

ninjaneko said:


> Well, maybe Japan will push incentives to bring in more people from other countries, simultaneously helping their economy and relieving the overpopulation of other countries. The cultural effects of that would be...interesting.



Japan is like the most xenophobic country in the world, they would prefer to go down than let too many foreigners live in their country.


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## Mael (Oct 20, 2013)

That's another thing too...East Asia is about as anti-immigrant as you get.


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## PureWIN (Oct 20, 2013)

av said:


> You could, theoretically, blame this on the fact that middle class life are boring and pointless as fuck. Middle class people generally have no sense of self-worth, and rightfully so. After the war, they could pretend they contributed to saving the world and such. Now they just answer phone calls in a call center and have time for little else. They are bored with themselves and the people around them, despising both.
> 
> What a surprise.



This generally applies to every middle-class family throughout human history, not just the 20th/21st century.

In fact, happy endings to most stories (i.e. Avatar the Last Airbender) depict their characters as "settling down" into this exact lifestyle.

Really, the most interesting times are the 10-15 year pre/post-war and war periods. Fighting/rebuilding after/preventing a war is only really when things get spicy when you're middle-class.


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## Mael (Oct 20, 2013)

In America, that malaise is thanks to the unprecedented narcissism of Millennials thanks to the "special snowflake" programs of the Baby Boomers.


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## Hand Banana (Oct 20, 2013)

This is the side effects of being hit by a nuke and surviving, and then passing on your genes. Makes sense.


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## Mael (Oct 20, 2013)

av said:


> I am not saying the article isn't dramatic, typical fox news, but it hit enough good points.



It's what we get when we let PC liberal ideals that place emphasis on "the feels" over honest to God achievement.  It's bullshit.  We're rewarding mediocrity just so Jimmy or Sarah can't cry that they lost.  There are winners and losers, and what you're supposed to do is teach them how to evolve from that loss and adapt, not give them a ribbon that they tried.  It breeds complacency.  I think my generation is going to be in a rut but hopefully the next ones will simply learn that they are not special.  The Boomers fucked up royally in this regard and let social media/commercialization take over the vulnerabilities.  It took me a while to learn I'm not special and I'll be happy if I can just keep my head and those of my family above the water for generations to come.


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## Selina Kyle (Oct 20, 2013)

Japan has a lot of issues. Mainly it's their economy. 

see, if economy's good, people get married early. but if the economy's bad, people are off in worse state. since the economy's bad in japan, they have to worry about themselves more. also, their culture is all about one's personal box. you have to be in that box to not be troublesome to others and also become successful. that's why there are growing number of suicides in japan or the japanese who choose to seclude themselves from their society (hikikomori). there's just too much pressure.


----------



## Mael (Oct 20, 2013)

av said:


> Oh, hey, Mael and I see eye to eye. What is this.
> 
> I wonder if it would be honestly good to bitch slap the majority of the population with this fact. Will they be thankful or mad and reject it?!
> 
> Dum dum dum.



You'll get a minority of people who will b'awwww about it on twitter and tumblr and threaten action but won't pull the trigger to themselves, figuratively or literally.  There might be some people that will actually kill themselves but honestly that's a greater call to seek greater therapy.  The problem is just having to force people my age to accept the fact that they can still have the opportunity to achieve but they have to work at it.  It's why I had such an issue with Occupy.  They were touching some of the right subjects but it was such a clusterfuck of narcissism and entitlement, a product of the Baby Boomer mentality that kids should go for their passions and not the practical and that there'd be a job waiting for them even if they picked a bullshit major like Gender Studies or Creative Writing.  They didn't read the fine print of loans and now they expect everyone else to pay for them.  I admit I wish I could get a big break sometimes but I've also accepted that you gotta work your ass off to get what you want.  I work two jobs, do the Army Reserve, and go to law school and I'm nearly drained by the end of the week.  But I realize it's what I gotta do so I can move up.

In Japan, I think there is a little bit of that but not nearly as much as the United States.  Their problem is not being able to cope with a female population that doesn't want to be a doormat and one that really confuses men on what to be and how to be.  East Asia in general is repressive, but I think the Japanese lash out at this the most.


----------



## Ceria (Oct 20, 2013)

HolyHands said:


> From what I've seen, a lot of the aversion towards marriage is that it's basically seen as the moment your life stops being exciting. Instead of the freedom and money of a single life, all you get in a marriage is a soul less job, a sexless relationship, screaming kids, and no free time.
> 
> Obviously that's not every marriage, but that seems to be the prevailing view of it in Japan.  And there hasn't been much effort towards making the family life attractive, instead people just get pressured or shamed into it. I can understand why people are starting to rebel.



The idea of 20 hour work days alone would deter any sane person from taking up that lifestyle. 

I find that i identify with these people in that i'm around the same age and i don't see myself in the foreseeable future getting married or having kids for some of the same reasons, fiscal being the one of the largest ones. The primary reason is that i like the independent lifestyle i currently have. I also don't have any desire to pursue a relationship with the opposite sex for some of the same aforementioned reasons.


----------



## dummy plug (Oct 20, 2013)

if girls dont like sex that means the boys aint tapping them correctly...the males have been watching too many JAVs where in women get turned on easily by just some grabbing and the like


----------



## dr_shadow (Oct 21, 2013)

There are countries the size of Japan with way smaller populations though, so no need to panic. Although a shrinking population would proportionally shrink their economy since they will have less workers and consumers.

*Area*
Sweden: 450 km2
Japan: 377 km2

*Population*
Sweden: 9 000 000
Japan: 120 000 000

So you can still run a country that size with 1/10 the population. You'll even still get complaints about unemployment!


----------



## 민찬영 (Oct 21, 2013)

Probably because Japan has too many hentai.


----------



## Havoc (Oct 21, 2013)

I will take it upon myself to knock up these japanese broads.

May God guide my dick true and straight.


----------



## Sanity Check (Oct 21, 2013)

AFAIK, japanese are indoctrinated into the dogma that the human body is infested with "dirty" microbes they're exposing themselves to under sexual contact.  Somehow, someway, they've regressed into a nation of clean freaks horrified at prospects of sex based, germ exchange.

Needless to say their abstinence program is much better and more affordable that the united states.


----------



## Gain (Oct 21, 2013)

I've posted this a few times but I'm starting to believe the contents more and more

[YOUTUBE]wSF82AwSDiU[/YOUTUBE]


However, I don't think a shrinking population in Japan is a major issue. I think technology will ultimately allow future Japanese to live actually more comfortable lives than currently with the added bonus of more space. South Korea, China, and Taiwan will also see their population shrink according to the Fertility Rate index


(East Asian countries are around the bottom you notice)

I would be more worried about exploding populations in extremely underdeveloped nations.


----------



## Gino (Oct 21, 2013)

Ennoea said:


> I think anyone saying it's due to manga is abit of an idiot.



Why are you sugarcoating it they are fucking idiots.


----------



## Sanity Check (Oct 21, 2013)

Kate Nash said:


> However, I don't think a shrinking population in Japan is a major issue.



Population decline is mainly the concern of governments and politicians unhappy over a decline in tax revenues, due to there being less people to tax to death.

Everyone tends to view population decline as a positive win/win scenario.

It is only those elected rogue factions in office who feel inclined to disagree.


----------



## Elriga (Oct 21, 2013)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> Population decline is mainly the concern of governments and politicians unhappy over a decline in tax revenues, due to there being less people to tax to death.
> 
> Everyone tends to view population decline as a positive win/win scenario.
> 
> It is only those elected rogue factions in office who feel inclined to disagree.



Well, to some extent this is true but it follows the same problem that the "baby boom" in America has, and that is who is going to pay for the care of all of these old people?

Where will they live, how will they eat, who will take care of them? The government needs people to tax so that they can continue on with welfare programs that keep the elderly in care (though I'm not sure exactly what the programs in Japan entail). Less people means less tax money which means less money for the social welfare programs.

Eventually of course the population will stabilize itself out, but you'll have to get through that older generation first.


----------



## Kahvehane (Oct 21, 2013)

If I lived in a country where used panties came in public vending machines, I'd imagine regular ass sex would seem pretty boring to me as well.


----------



## Patchouli (Oct 21, 2013)

You'd get tired of sex too if every time you pulled off your partner's clothes, there's a mosaic censor bar waiting for you.


----------



## kluang (Oct 21, 2013)

I blame the increase in netorare hentai

Seriously that genre need to die


----------



## Zaru (Oct 21, 2013)

mr_shadow said:


> There are countries the size of Japan with way smaller populations though, so no need to panic. Although a shrinking population would proportionally shrink their economy since they will have less workers and consumers.
> 
> *Area*
> Sweden: 450 km2
> ...





1mmortal 1tachi said:


> Population decline is mainly the concern of governments and politicians unhappy over a decline in tax revenues, due to there being less people to tax to death.
> 
> Everyone tends to view population decline as a positive win/win scenario.
> 
> It is only those elected rogue factions in office who feel inclined to disagree.



What you guys are forgetting though is that there's already enough space and infrastructure for the current population. What happens if there's not even remotely enough population to fill it?

Population declines -> Empty houses and appartments -> Lots of ghost towns, shabby looking areas (broken windows theory) -> infrastructure that was feasible for an area before now becomes impossible to maintain or loses a lot of money
It would start to look like Detroit (with less crime) unless everyone's constantly relocated and buildings get demolished constantly.


----------



## Golden Circle (Oct 21, 2013)

It's because the 2d girls are better.


----------



## zuul (Oct 21, 2013)

I'm not interested in sex either and I'm not Japanese.


----------



## FlashYoruichi (Oct 21, 2013)

Are you trying to tell me,that those Asian cocks aren't getting sucked on daily basis,If only I had the extra money for plane tickets


----------



## Roman (Oct 21, 2013)

kluang said:


> I blame the increase in netorare hentai
> 
> Seriously that genre need to die



Yeah. I wouldn't blame hentai in general since people's interest in hentai at all should be an indication of sexual interest barring some stranger people, but NTR is to me by far the most disgusting genre besides forced.


----------



## Gilgamesh (Oct 21, 2013)

Too bad this isn't happening with Americans or the Chinese


----------



## Overhaul (Oct 21, 2013)

Why indeed.


----------



## ThunderCunt (Oct 21, 2013)

It is problem of educated and developed societies in general. Japan is very expensive having kids and bringing them in Japan is not as financially easy.


----------



## Roman (Oct 21, 2013)

initpidzero said:


> It is problem of educated and developed societies in general. Japan is very expensive having kids and bringing them in Japan is not as financially easy.



In all seriousness, this is part of the real issue. I'd be quicker to blame the working culture in Japanese society. Considering it's virtually normal even for office workers to have 12 hour workdays at the very minimum (sometimes on weekends as well), it's no surprise that people are forced to throw their social lives down the drain.


----------



## ThunderCunt (Oct 21, 2013)

One of my Japanese friend wanted to get out of japan to work elsewhere because Japanese work like crazy. They overdo everything in the name of quality. There are ofcourse positive side of it, but mostly it is not very efficient method.


----------



## Golden Circle (Oct 21, 2013)

[sp][/sp]


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (Oct 21, 2013)

Kahvehane said:


> If I lived in a country where used panties came in public vending machines, I'd imagine regular ass sex would seem pretty boring to me as well.





kluang said:


> I blame the increase in netorare hentai
> 
> Seriously that genre need to die





Freedan said:


> Yeah. I wouldn't blame hentai in general since people's interest in hentai at all should be an indication of sexual interest barring some stranger people, but NTR is to me by far the most disgusting genre besides forced.


----------



## Lina Inverse (Oct 21, 2013)

They should send Arnold Schwarzenegger to japan


----------



## the_notorious_Z.É. (Oct 21, 2013)

Lina Inverse said:


> They should send Arnold Schwarzenegger to japan



Or me.


----------



## Mael (Oct 21, 2013)

the_notorious_Z.?. said:


> Or me.



Maybe they need the Corpse Parts before Funny Valentine gets 'em.


----------



## Unicornsilovethem (Oct 21, 2013)

mr_shadow said:


> There are countries the size of Japan with way smaller populations though, so no need to panic. Although a shrinking population would proportionally shrink their economy since they will have less workers and consumers.
> 
> *Area*
> Sweden: 450 km2
> ...


The problem is not only that the population is shrinking, but also that it is aging. People live longer and longer lives, at the same time fewer babies are being born. When you have more 70 year olds than 30 years olds, there's a big problem because the workforce will be too small to support the country's needs.


----------



## Almesiva Moonshadow (Oct 21, 2013)

Lina Inverse said:


> They should send Arnold Schwarzenegger to japan



*And that's how the race of Saiyans came to be. *


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Oct 21, 2013)

initpidzero said:


> It is problem of educated and developed societies in general. Japan is very expensive having kids and bringing them in Japan is not as financially easy.



While birth rates are dropping in these countries, many of them also report people having more sex than ever. Japan on the other hand not only reports a drastic drop in birth rates, but sexual activity and sexual satisfaction as well when it comes to the female population.


----------



## Mael (Oct 21, 2013)

Lina Inverse said:


> They should send Arnold Schwarzenegger to japan



They did...and then this happened:
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib2jw1WFAq0[/YOUTUBE]

God help us all...


----------



## Wolfarus (Oct 21, 2013)

So to summerize, its a nice little brew of issues.

1. Japanese men "feminizing" thru what they eat, and how the culture is shaping their behavior/expectations, which is turning off their women.

2. Japanese women emerging from their old subservient expectations, and coming into their own equal rights w/ men (which plays into issue #3)

3. The japanese work ethic of 12+ hours a day, every day. Generally both sexes are too worn out to do much of anything after they come home.

4. Expense (time/energy/money) of children is increasingly looked at as a undesireable burden, especially with the already-present burden of taking care of the older generation, which far outnumber the working young/adults.

I wouldnt even consider the excuse of the ever-present anime/manga hentai culture as a part of this problem, at least not to a level that it's genuinely a country-wide factor.


----------



## Gino (Oct 21, 2013)

If you still want to live in japan after this you lost yo damn mind.


----------



## Linkofone (Oct 21, 2013)

Wolfarus said:


> So to summerize, its a nice little brew of issues.
> 
> 1. Japanese men "feminizing" thru what they eat, and how the culture is shaping their behavior/expectations, which is turning off their women.
> 
> ...



Agreed.




> I wouldnt even consider the excuse of the ever-present anime/manga hentai culture as a part of this problem, at least not to a level that it's genuinely a country-wide factor.



I don't understand who would actually have thought that this was the problem.


----------



## Smoke (Oct 22, 2013)

According to the vast amounts of hentai that I read, this is fake news.


----------



## Linkdarkside (Oct 22, 2013)




----------



## lucky (Oct 22, 2013)

cuz no guys don't like hairy bushes


and girls squealing like 5 year olds


----------



## rac585 (Oct 22, 2013)

they are waiting for their perfecto robo partners. coming soon.


----------



## Shiorin (Oct 22, 2013)

Mider T said:


> And Korean women are probably the worst looking out of all East Asian women,


Nah, Chinese women are pretty unappealing. Koreans do get a lot of plastic surgery though so you never know what you're really getting.


----------



## Roman (Oct 22, 2013)

Mael said:


> They did...and then this happened:
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib2jw1WFAq0[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> God help us all...


----------



## dr_shadow (Oct 22, 2013)

Shiorin said:


> Nah, Chinese women are pretty unappealing



Depends on ethnic group and area.

Han from Beijing or Shanghai can be pretty good looking.


----------



## Vasto Lorde King (Oct 22, 2013)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> I dunno, Japanese women are still far more feminine than their western counterparts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...






Love that picture LMAO.



Mael said:


> That's another thing too...East Asia is about as anti-immigrant as you get.



I wouldn't be surprised if the sheer lack of genetic variety would eventually bore them in this day and age. They all look the same. Atleast with the other races you can notice clear difference in build and facial features between each individual. Why do so many japanese people colour thier hair blond or try too look white?



Golden Circle said:


> [sp][/sp]





Linkdarkside said:


>



I would definiately not discard the factor of hentai. A 2d girl can be made any way you want. Also there are quite some hentai's where girls have quite the large breast. Something japanese women often lack. I think the reason lies in the fact that there's just nothing interesting too look at from either sides.


----------



## Sanity Check (Oct 22, 2013)

Zaru said:


> What you guys are forgetting though is that there's already enough space and infrastructure for the current population. What happens if there's not even remotely enough population to fill it?
> 
> Population declines -> Empty houses and appartments -> Lots of ghost towns, shabby looking areas (broken windows theory) -> infrastructure that was feasible for an area before now becomes impossible to maintain or loses a lot of money
> It would start to look like Detroit (with less crime) unless everyone's constantly relocated and buildings get demolished constantly.



1.  Youth unemployment (age bracket 18-24) rate in countries like Portugal and Spain is 50% of higher.

2.  Said unemployed are rioting and engaging in civil disobedience as a result, due to them being homeless, starving and having nothing to lose in many instances.

3.  If we lack sufficient jobs and employment opportunities for the current population.

4.  How do we sustain population growth which further inflates unemployment and negative consequences associated with it?

:WOW

.


----------



## Linkofone (Oct 22, 2013)

Shiorin said:


> Nah, Chinese women are pretty unappealing.



Honestly I think it is just a matter of opinion. I met a lot of Chinese girls that look very attractive while in Beijing, Shanghai, and Xi'an. The second half is actually my opinion.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Oct 22, 2013)

You wouldn't even know it from the anime and manga they make, but when it comes to social interactions, Japanese culture is depressingly repressive. Even their method of courtship.


----------



## Mael (Oct 22, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> You wouldn't even know it from the anime and manga they make, but when it comes to social interactions, Japanese culture is depressingly repressive. Even their method of courtship.



And let's not forget the misconceptions from otakus and weeaboos. 

Tom Green's misadventures in Tokyo proved all of this to me.


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (Oct 22, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> You wouldn't even know it from the anime and manga they make, but when it comes to social interactions, Japanese culture is depressingly repressive. Even their method of courtship.



I think this is why protagonists like Luffy and Guts are so popular in Japan. Japanese psychology promotes things like conformity, being hyper-polite and living up to the expectations of those around you, so characters who break the rules, are a bit rude and don't care what others think appeal to what the Japanese are repressing. They seem to have a very rich and fulfilling fantasy world but a somewhat depressing reality.


Vice just released a video about this topic. Interesting view.

Good lord above, it's not just the men being herbs, their own women are doing nothing to solve their problem. I don't know about you, but the day a group of people say they don't want to fuck, they will die out.


----------



## Wolfarus (Oct 23, 2013)

@ the people posting the otaku's who are dating/marrying their character pillows..

You think these guy's count towards the population/sex debate?

Even in japan, they are considered the abnormal few, so they hardly have any effect on this


----------



## Gino (Oct 23, 2013)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> Vice just released a video about this topic. Interesting view.
> 
> Good lord above, it's not just the men being herbs, their own women are doing nothing to solve their problem. I don't know about you, but the day a group of people say they don't want to fuck, they will die out.



Japanese Chick:_When I see couples being affectionate in public I wish they would die_ 

I never lol'd so hard till now holy shit.


----------



## Lina Inverse (Oct 23, 2013)

the_notorious_Z.?. said:


> Or me.





Almesiva Moonshadow said:


> *And that's how the race of Saiyans came to be. *





Mael said:


> They did...and then this happened:
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib2jw1WFAq0[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> God help us all...





poor japan


----------



## Whirlpool (Oct 23, 2013)

Thought it was just men who were being prudes and women wanted it.

Was about to buy a one-way ticket.


----------



## Byrd (Oct 23, 2013)

Damn Japan... tsk tsk... they need a sexual revolution


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Oct 23, 2013)

Whirlpool said:


> Thought it was just men who were being prudes and women wanted it.
> 
> Was about to buy a one-way ticket.



A lot of women over there find their sex lives very unsatisfying though, and I would honestly attribute that to their tedious courtship practices, and even worse, their tedious approach to intercourse; there's just too much formality, too much repression, too much expectation of conforming to social standards that are expected of a person in public or private situations.

Like...when you are attracted to a person, it is odd to directly address the person for example. Often courtship deals with a back-and-forth between friends of yourself and the person you're attracted to. It's only after a tedious inquiry does actual conversation start...


----------



## Aging Boner (Oct 23, 2013)

yeah, I read an article long ago about how cats apologize right after they bust a nut because they made a mess and feel sorry about it...and how women just lay there without moving until it's over.


----------



## Whirlpool (Oct 23, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> A lot of women over there find their sex lives very unsatisfying though, and I would honestly attribute that to their tedious courtship practices, and even worse, their tedious approach to intercourse; there's just too much formality, too much repression, too much expectation of conforming to social standards that are expected of a person in public or private situations.





How would these 'courtship practices' and approaches to intercourse go and how different from Western ones are they?


----------



## Blue (Oct 27, 2013)

The reality, in case anyone is interested:


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Oct 28, 2013)

> Mendokusai translates loosely as "Too troublesome" or "I can't be bothered". It's the word I hear both sexes use most often when they talk about their relationship phobia.



Not content to ruin his own manga, Kishimoto has turned the entire population into Shikamaru.  

That said, if all my options looked like the guy in the picture, I'd stay single.  The girl isn't very cute either.  I guess she could pass if she were a ninja or samurai.


----------



## Katou (Oct 28, 2013)

Because 2D girls are more Superior these days


----------



## Shiorin (Oct 28, 2013)

Whirlpool said:


> How would these 'courtship practices' and approaches to intercourse go and how different from Western ones are they?


Intercourse is all about repression, especially on the part of the woman.

Courtship can be a tangled mess of customs, some outdated such as お見合い. Many men from this generation have a different problem though - their view of the ideal woman or relationship is so distorted they would rather be with the very fictional characters that engender such views.


----------



## Stripes (Oct 28, 2013)

I'll agree that the hentai/fantasy ladies are part of the cultural problem with Japan not producing enough but it is also about social standing too. I mean the average women in Japan is creating a career before having a child and with that she puts off men entirely. I watched a whole fuckin documentary on this in econ. but in all actuality both gender opposition is casting off their sexual libido for a real human being and with that no babies. 

While in America, you have teen moms right and left. Talk about culture difference I think we should carry some of that female integrity over this way.


----------



## Ippy (Oct 28, 2013)

Bishop said:


> You guys do realize it's mostly women, who have a much lower readership of manga and sex literature than men. There are papers on this that point to the high paranoia of possible pain and rape in the viewpoint of women.



...and who do you think are trying to woo those women?

Japanese men who grew up with shounen or seinen anime/manga.  The former is largely composed of nothing but unrequited love, while the latter is often devoid of anything but tragic loss, and if they do have relationships, they are hardly normal or healthy.  That's not even taking into account hentai, which easily explains why so many have a propensity towards the unsolicited groping of women in public transportation.

Japanese men are basically socialized to be horrible at romance and sexual deviants.

There's a reason many of their women are going to S. Korea to find men.


----------



## horsdhaleine (Oct 28, 2013)

Wolfarus said:


> So to summerize, its a nice little brew of issues.
> 
> 1. Japanese men "feminizing" thru what they eat, and how the culture is shaping their behavior/expectations, which is turning off their women.
> 
> ...



I generally agree with this post as these things have been mentioned in many articles and papers and discussed in lectures. I've also been told by some female Japanese expats in the Philippines that that bringing up children in this generation is hard because the Japanese society has grown unaccommodating  to the needs of little ones and the minor shortcoming of a young mother that most young mothers feel unwelcome. "They don't like children that much," is what I've been told. Here (and maybe elsewhere) a young mother will be congratulated, while in their society, they will see it as a liability.

Even if the government encourages young people to build families, it's really not going to work that easily when you have a society that is not conducive to building families. 

Anyway, don't worry Japan. We will populate you.


----------



## Aging Boner (Oct 28, 2013)

what surprises me most about the Jap issue is that I haven't heard much in the way of drug use...

typically societies with such high levels of stress related to economics and social expectations have a lot of people that say fuck it...imma smoke some weed or jab this here vein to get away from this crap.


----------



## Zaru (Oct 28, 2013)

Aging Boner said:


> what surprises me most about the Jap issue is that I haven't heard much in the way of drug use...
> 
> typically societies with such high levels of stress related to economics and social expectations have a lot of people that say fuck it...imma smoke some weed or jab this here vein to get away from this crap.



From what I could gather, while drug use is on the rise, it's not very widespread. There's a huge cultural stigma and draconic laws against any kind of drug usage (aside from alcohol, obviously). It's weakening, but to reach western levels will take quite a while (and I hope it doesn't)


----------



## Incognito (Oct 28, 2013)

One things very likely: the Japanese solution to their population problem will certainly not be importing foreign immigrants / the third world and thereby committing ethnic, cultural and national suicide as most of the western world is currently doing. No, they will likely implement a reverse China child type policy and encourage domestic population growth.


----------



## dr_shadow (Oct 28, 2013)

Sucks how in non-Communist East Asia women have to chose between family and career.

I've heard that South Korea has the most well-educated housewives in the world. A lot of girls will get a bachelor's or even master's degree but _never work in their field_ because they have to take care of the kids once they get married.

(Mael or other Koreophile plz confirm)

It is perhaps no coincidence that Park Geun-Hye, first female president of South Korea, has never been married despite being 61 years old.


----------



## Zaru (Oct 28, 2013)

Incognito said:


> One things very likely: the Japanese solution to their population problem will certainly not be importing foreign immigrants / the third world and thereby committing ethnic, cultural and national suicide as most of the western world is currently doing. No, they will likely implement a reverse China child type policy and encourage domestic population growth.



Immigration from the shitstains of the world would cause total chaos in Japan. They are culturally adapted to their extremely low crime rate, which influences the size of the police force, people's feeling of security in public and many other things, and the crime that does exist seems majority controlled by the Yakuza which are right-wing and "entwined" into many organizations.
Non-"skilled labor"-integration would most likely cause a gigantic spike in the crime rate of affected areas, the police wouldn't be able to handle it and the natives would flip their shit. The immigrants would then not be welcomed by anyone and forced into self-creating ghettos, which feedback-loops the problem towards an even greater scale. 

Hopefully they never take that route.



mr_shadow said:


> Sucks how in non-Communist East Asia women have to chose between family and career.
> 
> I've heard that South Korea has the most well-educated housewives in the world. A lot of girls will get a bachelor's or even master's degree but _never work in their field_ because they have to take care of the kids once they get married.
> 
> ...


Work hour expecations in those parts of asia are much higher than in spoiled non-asian first world countries, so of course it's gonna be even harder to handle both family and career. Ain't nobody got time for both.


----------



## Aging Boner (Oct 28, 2013)

Muslims aren't permitted into Japan; I don't know if this is a currently standing policy but I did read about this some time back.


----------



## dr_shadow (Oct 28, 2013)

Aging Boner said:


> Muslims aren't permitted into Japan; I don't know if this is a currently standing policy but I did read about this some time back.





> There is a popular email going around that reveals how difficult the Japanese make it for Islam to take hold in Japan. Having lived in Japan some time ago, I have a bit of personal insight to add. So before you consider packing up and running off to Japan, take note of the following:
> 
> *Japan, a country keeping Islam at bay, Japan has put strict restrictions on Islam and ALL Muslims.* (Japan puts strict restriction on ALL foreigners, period)
> 
> ...


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Oct 28, 2013)

Zaru said:


> Immigration from the shitstains of the world would cause total chaos in Japan. They are culturally adapted to their extremely low crime rate, which influences the size of the police force, people's feeling of security in public and many other things, and the crime that does exist seems majority controlled by the Yakuza which are right-wing and "entwined" into many organizations.
> Non-"skilled labor"-integration would most likely cause a gigantic spike in the crime rate of affected areas, the police wouldn't be able to handle it and the natives would flip their shit. The immigrants would then not be welcomed by anyone and forced into self-creating ghettos, which feedback-loops the problem towards an even greater scale.
> 
> Hopefully they never take that route.
> ...



Aren't you basically advocating racial purity.


----------



## Zaru (Oct 28, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Aren't you basically advocating racial purity.



Oh Seto how racist of you, the Japanese might have been isolated on an island for a while but to call them a race is just silly


----------



## Mael (Oct 28, 2013)

That gif.


----------



## Incognito (Oct 28, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Aren't you basically advocating racial purity.



So would you say that Japan, which currently severely restricts foreign immigration, is practicing "racial purity"? There is nothing "racist" about wanting to preserve your national identity, if Japan were to be flooded with aliens to the point where the native Japanese were to be displaced ethnically and culturally, it would no longer be Japan -the nation state of the Japanese people. The Japanese understand this very well and that is why they still restrict foreign immigration in spite of their aging and population decline problem and perhaps arguably even to the detriment of their economy (at least according to the proponents of multiculturalism).

If say the English or the Germans were to start flooding Nigeria at a rate where in a few decades, they would displace the native Nigerian population, Im sure it would be a state of affairs most Nigerians would not want. On the other hand, the English or the Germans, it seems Europeans in general actually, wanting to preserve their national identity is "racist" and "hate".


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## Seto Kaiba (Oct 28, 2013)

So what? Cultures die out, they change, the demographics of the people change. That is the way things go sometimes. America used to be full of natives, but that changed, then it was mostly white and that is changing.


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## Zaru (Oct 28, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> So what? Cultures die out, they change, the demographics of the people change. That is the way things go sometimes. America used to be full of natives, but that changed, then it was mostly white and that is changing.



And if a change is negative, they're just supposed to bend over and take it up the cultural ass?

Would you sit idly by and enjoy your cultural enrichment if some sort of ultraconservative 15th century style christian minority was immigrating to your country and displacing everyone else until they start witch hunting for atheists?


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## Mael (Oct 28, 2013)

Zaru said:


> And if a change is negative, they're just supposed to bend over and take it up the cultural ass?
> 
> Would you sit idly by and enjoy your cultural enrichment if some sort of ultraconservative 15th century style christian minority was immigrating to your country and displacing everyone else until they start witch hunting for atheists?



Essentially why multiculturalism is a complete joke.


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## NW (Oct 28, 2013)

Good for them. We could use a population reduction. Now let's get this going in other countries.


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## Seto Kaiba (Oct 28, 2013)

Zaru said:


> And if a change is negative, they're just supposed to bend over and take it up the cultural ass?
> 
> Would you sit idly by and enjoy your cultural enrichment if some sort of ultraconservative 15th century style christian minority was immigrating to your country and displacing everyone else until they start witch hunting for atheists?



How can you or someone else say a change is negative merely based on ethnic demographics? As Japan's birth rate plummets, they will find more and more of their population born from immigrants. That is usually the typical trend in developed nations. 

I live in the Bible Belt, so that's a pretty stupid question to be asking me.



> Essentially why multiculturalism is a complete joke.



We live in a multicultural society, Mael.


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## Incognito (Oct 28, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> So what? Cultures die out, they change, the demographics of the people change. That is the way things go sometimes. America used to be full of natives, but that changed, then it was mostly white and that is changing.



And why should this mean such changes are desirable or even feasible in the manner envisioned by most utopian multiculturalists (just because something is and can does not mean it ought or should)? Historically, cultures and peoples died out because of invasion, conflict and displacement, not peaceful utopian assimilation. To this day, conflicts and wars continue to be largely one between different groups (ethnic, religious etc groups), diversity is by far one of the most, if not the most, frequent causes of conflict in the world.

Americas increasing heterogeneity is hardly something to be desired, once again it's a source of conflict, erosion of national cohesiveness and political divide (if you haven't noticed, American politics is becoming  increasingly racialized, if it continues what do you think will be the denouement?).


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## Seto Kaiba (Oct 28, 2013)

Incognito said:


> And why should this mean such changes are desirable or even feasible in the manner envisioned by most utopian multiculturalists (just because something is and can does not mean it ought or should)? Historically, cultures and peoples died out because of invasion, conflict and displacement, not peaceful utopian assimilation. To this day, conflicts and wars continue to be largely one between different groups (ethnic, religious etc groups), diversity is by far one of the most, if not the most, frequent causes of conflict in the world.
> 
> Americas increasing heterogeneity is hardly something to be desired, once again it's a source of conflict, erosion of national cohesiveness and political divide (if you haven't noticed, American politics is becoming  increasingly racialized, if it continues what do you think will be the denouement?).



Well, your point is kind of idiotic considering we are talking about a developed nation in the 21st century. Demographic changes often coming about due to immigration, declining birth rates among the naturalized population, and rising birthrates among immigrants living in the country. I never said anything about being utopian, but demographic shifts are almost an inevitability. 

America's has pretty much been heterogenous from its beginnings, yet those ethnic and cultural differences did not stop us from becoming a major world power, and eventually, the sole superpower of the world. Internally, social strides have been made due to or in spite of those differences, and in contrast with places in Europe or Asia, we are much better equipped to deal with a globalized society that becomes increasingly multi-ethnic and multicultural. Some people will always stigmatize others for differences, you get rid of one thing and people will just find something else to go on. Furthermore, your point is even more idiotic because the political divide is more to do with regional values and culture rather than race, and such matters are unavoidable, in any large area of land. 

Why do you think there are so many sects of Christianity? Or Sunni and Shiite Islam? Anything that starts from similar origins eventually splinters or branches off into something else over time. Just look at the Yamato people in Japan, they aren't natives of Japan, they emigrated from other nations in the Sinosphere. Yet look throughout history of the tensions they've had with their neighbors of similar origin.


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## Zaru (Oct 28, 2013)

Fusion said:


> Good for them. We could use a population reduction. Now let's get this going in other countries.


We have to stop massive population increases before we can even think about population reduction.


Seto Kaiba said:


> How can you or someone else say a change is negative merely based on ethnic demographics? As Japan's birth rate plummets, they will find more and more of their population born from immigrants. That is usually the typical trend in developed nations.
> 
> I live in the Bible Belt, so that's a pretty stupid question to be asking me.



Because some subsets of ethnic demographics correlate highly to negative cultural influences?
I said "shitstains" (covering a broad term of places with cultural norms that go against human rights and/or are generally behind the modern times) and non-"skilled labor" (meaning they bring nothing to the country that couldn't be better solved with advances in auto/robotization)
Under those conditions I stated from the beginning, how likely is a positive change for the country? Are those outdated, incompatible or outright barbaric cultural norms going to "enrich" a country in any way? 

This distinction is the difference between getting rural turks who are prone to honor murders and city turks who are more modern-minded.
It's the difference between getting high-achieving intellectual nigerians and rape statistic exploding unemployed somalis. It's not about all people in those countries, but rather which subsets of them emigrate to particular countries.
Et cetera. 

And I know where you live, that's why I picked christians in particular. Worse ones than you're used to.



Seto Kaiba said:


> We live in a multicultural society, Mael.


There's a difference between multicultural as a state of being and multiculturalism as an ideology.
Because multiculturalism as practiced by "dem liberuls"  is basically "everything in some way related to the cultures of minorities is good and worth protecting, the majority culture and the cultures of its roots are bad and you should feel bad"


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## Incognito (Oct 28, 2013)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Well, your point is kind of idiotic considering we are talking about a developed nation in the 21st century. Demographic changes often coming about due to immigration, declining birth rates among the naturalized population, and rising birthrates among immigrants living in the country. I never said anything about being utopian, but demographic shifts are almost an inevitability.
> 
> America's has pretty much been heterogenous from its beginnings, yet those ethnic and cultural differences did not stop us from becoming a major world power, and eventually, the sole superpower of the world. Internally, social strides have been made due to or in spite of those differences, and in contrast with places in Europe or Asia, we are much better equipped to deal with a globalized society that becomes increasingly multi-ethnic and multicultural. Some people will always stigmatize others for differences, you get rid of one thing and people will just find something else to go on. Furthermore, your point is even more idiotic because the political divide is more to do with regional values and culture rather than race, and such matters are unavoidable, in any large area of land.
> 
> Why do you think there are so many sects of Christianity? Or Sunni and Shiite Islam? Anything that starts from similar origins eventually splinters or branches off into something else over time. Just look at the Yamato people in Japan, they aren't natives of Japan, they emigrated from other nations in the Sinosphere. Yet look throughout history of the tensions they've had with their neighbors of similar origin.



My remark about historical demographic changes being commonly caused by war and displacement was merely to illustrate my counter-argument -you seemed to be arguing that because something happens (is), well actually a contingency, it is therefore not undesirable (ought); I never claimed that was the case for current demographic changes. America was racially/ethnically balkanized and segregated, something that has changed only in the past 40 years or so. Yes, increasing heterogeneity  did not stop you from becoming a super-power but I don't see how it has helped you achieve that status either. On the contrary, your heterogeneity has not contributed to your success in any way and this issue (of the racial gap in education, achievement and employment) is now the cause of reverse discrimination (affirmative action) which has and will continue to antagonize Whites (and causing further conflict and divide).

Yes people will always find forms of division but the divide of ethnicity and culture run far deeper than most other sources -on a related note, ethnocentrism is now a point of interest in the field of evolutionary psychology, and it has been suspect that ethnocentrism, being a cultural universal, has fundamental roots in the evolved psychology of human beings.





The ideology of cultural Marxism was in fact framed precisely for this reason -to deal with the fact that solidarity of ethnicity preponderated that of class. Contrary to the expectation of Marxism, the working class tend to be the most ethnocentric of all and form the bulk of voters of racialist parties here in Europe, for example. If the polarization of American politics has nothing to do with race then clearly White Americans form a very distinct cultural and regional group indeed.


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## Vasto Lorde King (Oct 29, 2013)

Zaru said:


> Oh Seto how racist of you, the Japanese might have been isolated on an island for a while but to call them a race is just silly



JAPAN



*Spoiler*: __


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## Mael (Oct 29, 2013)

> We live in a multicultural society, Mael.



The United States is only multicultural in the sense that it cherry picks the good out of a vast swathe of immigrant cultures coming in yet still makes sure the immigrants assimilate into American society and abide by American laws.  The multiculturalism I refer to is often the European experiment where different societies and different cultures exist within the same state and ne'er shall the twain meet.  It's a glaring failure, for example, with many Muslim communities in Europe who simply refuse to abide by the more secular rules of let's say France or the UK.  Assimilation is a lot more difficult.


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## Zaru (Oct 29, 2013)

Mael said:


> The United States is only multicultural in the sense that it cherry picks the good out of a vast swathe of immigrant cultures coming in yet still makes sure the immigrants assimilate into American society and abide by American laws.  The multiculturalism I refer to is often the European experiment where different societies and different cultures exist within the same state and ne'er shall the twain meet.  It's a glaring failure, for example, with many Muslim communities in Europe who simply refuse to abide by the more secular rules of let's say France or the UK.  Assimilation is a lot more difficult.



Just observe how emerging muslim "substates" like Dearborn are turning out and you'll sympathize soon enough


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## Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki (Oct 29, 2013)

Mael said:


> The United States is only multicultural in the sense that it cherry picks the good out of a vast swathe of immigrant cultures coming in yet still makes sure the immigrants assimilate into American society and abide by American laws.  The multiculturalism I refer to is often the European experiment where different societies and different cultures exist within the same state and ne'er shall the twain meet.  It's a glaring failure, for example, with many Muslim communities in Europe who simply refuse to abide by the more secular rules of let's say France or the UK.  Assimilation is a lot more difficult.



As far as I know the reason it works in the US is because there exists an "american" national identity.

European countries are still in the aftershock of the nazi war crimes of WW2 and consequently reject national pride. As a result, immigrants have no national identity to grab on to.

At least, this is an argument I've heard.


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## Seto Kaiba (Oct 29, 2013)

Mael said:


> The United States is only multicultural in the sense that it cherry picks the good out of a vast swathe of immigrant cultures coming in yet still makes sure the immigrants assimilate into American society and abide by American laws.  The multiculturalism I refer to is often the European experiment where different societies and different cultures exist within the same state and ne'er shall the twain meet.  It's a glaring failure, for example, with many Muslim communities in Europe who simply refuse to abide by the more secular rules of let's say France or the UK.  Assimilation is a lot more difficult.



It goes two ways from what I gather. Yes, there are plenty of immigrant communities that just refuse to assimilate, that being, they demand special treatment and selectivity when enforcing the nation's laws that are not afforded to other groups which is not tolerated here. At the same time, you cannot deny that Europeans, even more than we do, treat immigrants as "the other", and not only them but their children as well, which can be alienating.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 29, 2013)

Listen to what Victor-sensei has to say about it.

[Youtube]a087lcZTs3A[/YouTube]


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## aiyanah (Oct 29, 2013)

the hand is mightier!!


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## 8 (Oct 30, 2013)

couldn't part of the problem lie in their upbringing. too much focus on separating them instead of blending them together. for example schools over there have separate p.e. while over here where i grew up boys and girls have p.e. together. and much worse would be the all girls and all boys schools, these do not even exist over here. i even heard there are female only busses in japan?

imagine if a girl only goes to all girls schools and the only guy in her live is her dad. and even then he makes long days and doesn't get to spend time with her. she'd grow up with no experience around man. she'll probably develop false prejudices. around guys she'll be uncomfortable and feel intimidated. even if she wanted to she wouldn't have the confidence or know how to approach guys. and then she'll probably start making excuses about not being interested.

i remember back in elementary school, teachers would tend to mix the girls with the boy. in classrooms we would have tables paired in groups of 2 or 4. then teachers would mix girls with boys in these groups. or when we'd go out we would have to walk in a long row of boys and girls next to each other holding hands. or in playgrounds kids tend to divide between groups of boys and girls, but teachers would encourage us to play tag or something similar together. i never thought much of this before but now i can see some purpose.


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## Zaru (Oct 30, 2013)

8 said:


> couldn't part of the problem lie in their upbringing. too much focus on separating them instead of blending them together. for example schools over there have separate p.e.



This is extremely common and has little impact on how much they want to bone each other



8 said:


> and much worse would be the all girls and all boys schools


Those probably exist because parents want their children to focus on studies instead of hormone induced distractions



8 said:


> i even heard there are female only busses in japan?


That's because too many men can't stop groping females on public transportation


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## dr_shadow (Oct 30, 2013)

Iron Man said:


> [Youtube]a087lcZTs3A[/YouTube]



I could see that!!! 

Is Youtube unblocked in China???

*goes to 

...

Seems the site itself is still blocked, but I can somehow now see linked YT videos.

Thank you chairman Xi.


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## stab-o-tron5000 (Oct 30, 2013)

If the porn I've seen is anything to go by, maybe Japanese people would be more interested in sex if they'd learn to do a little landscaping if you know what I mean.  I mean, c'mon guys, that style went out with the seventies, buy some razors and get with the times.


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## dr_shadow (Oct 30, 2013)

stab-o-tron5000 said:


> If the porn I've seen is anything to go by, maybe Japanese people would be more interested in sex if they'd learn to do a little landscaping if you know what I mean.  I mean, c'mon guys, that style went out with the seventies, buy some razors and get with the times.



Having pubic hair is as far as I can tell (it's awkward to ask) considered perfectly normal in East Asia, and it's rather westerners who are weird for shaving.


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## Gromneer (Oct 30, 2013)

Been to Japan like 15 times. Its all because of work related stress. There is also like a fuckton of dating bars you could go to and date someone from the opposite gender. The Patrons of those bars make like a thousand dollars a day.


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## Orion (Oct 30, 2013)

mr_shadow said:


> Having pubic hair is as far as I can tell (it's awkward to ask) considered perfectly normal in East Asia, and it's rather westerners who are weird for shaving.



I don't see how anyone can with a straight face claim that giant hairy bushes are more attractive than being well groomed. Regardless of  if it is normal over there it should still play a factor.


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## 8 (Oct 30, 2013)

Zaru said:


> This is extremely common and has little impact on how much they want to bone each other


we wouldn't want children and young teens to bone each other. the point is to mix genders in their childhood, so they can learn to interact with each other.

mixed p.e. or not is just a small change and wouldn't do much on its own. but it can be good to let them get a bit physical together.  let girls get used to the scary bigger stronger and faster men. let guys learn how to physically handle girls. let them compete and work together playing sports like soccer, baseball, volleyball. they get to learn about each other. and it may even help some get rid of their phobia for the opposite gender.


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## Rawri (Oct 30, 2013)

Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki said:


> European countries are still in the aftershock of the nazi war crimes of WW2 and consequently reject national pride. As a result, immigrants have no national identity to grab on to.
> 
> At least, this is an argument I've heard.



That doesn't make any sense. Why would any country reject national pride due to Germany's war crimes?  Even Germans shouldn't reject it. You can't be blamed for the actions of your ancestors.

If anything, national pride is stronger than it's been for the past decades, fueled by anti-EU feelings.


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## Revolution (Oct 30, 2013)

Saishin said:


> Too many hentai that's why



There is a lot of research that proves this is correct.  Not hentai, but* internet pornography* addiction that depletes desire to have actual human intimacy.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 30, 2013)

People saying hentai; I can't tell if extremely ignorant, or trolling..


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## Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki (Oct 30, 2013)

If they want more people fucking, how about opening some brothels.


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## First Tsurugi (Oct 30, 2013)

As I understand it this is mainly due to the fact that when a woman becomes pregnant in Japan, she is expected to resign and become a housewife. Japanese women thus have a choice between creating a family or furthering their career, so naturally many women have decided against the former in favor of the latter.

Other nations are able to prevent this from affecting their population growth via immigration. Regardless, I feel like every nation will inevitably head this way, Japan is just ahead of the curve in that regard.


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## Black Wraith (Oct 30, 2013)

Aging Boner said:


> Muslims aren't permitted into Japan; I don't know if this is a currently standing policy but I did read about this some time back.




Got scared there for a second. I've always wanted to visit Japan and hope to one day go for a holiday.

Even though it's not true, for a country as homogenised as Japan I would stick out like a saw thumb being a 6ft tall, bearded, brown man with a thick Yorkshire accent (me speaking would confuse the shit out of them).


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## dr_shadow (Oct 31, 2013)

Orion said:


> I don't see how anyone can with a straight face claim that giant hairy bushes are more attractive than being well groomed. *Regardless of  if it is normal over there it should still play a factor*.



Um, no, it's not a factor.

First of all I don't think anyone here even considers the possibility that you could shave. I've had two Chinese girlfriends, and neither of them thougt it could be "normal". One had tried as an experiment with a former European boyfriend, but didn't continue afterwards.

Second of all, you don't usually see a person's privates until you are seconds away from having intercourse, at which point it's kind of too late to have second thoughts. Hopefully if you got to the stage where somebody would remove their underwear for you, you've already developed a connection with the person that won't go away based on genital attractiveness.


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## Wolfarus (Oct 31, 2013)

Wait.. did the thread really degenerate (for some people) into arguments that maybe its the natural bush's that are getting in the way of sex? 

wow.

And believe it or not, there are quite a few guy's out there who LIKE natural bush


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## Ennoea (Oct 31, 2013)

Some people are confusing birth rate and interest in sex. The bigger issue is women finding sex disgusting, that makes no sense, that's a societal issue regarding sex and Japanese men clearly doing it wrong.


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## Wolfarus (Oct 31, 2013)

Ennoea said:


> Some people are confusing birth rate and interest in sex. The bigger issue is women finding sex disgusting, that makes no sense, that's a societal issue regarding sex and Japanese men clearly doing it wrong.



Or its a mix of issues, as previously stated in this thread:

Men becoming more and more feminine in looks and behavior

Women coming out from the shadow of the traditional japanese role for them (housewife)

The japanese mentality of working 12+ hours a day, leaving both sexes too exhausted to deal with kids, especially when they are already dealing with taking care of THEIR aging parents.


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## Ennoea (Oct 31, 2013)

> Women coming out from the shadow of the traditional japanese role for them (housewife)
> 
> The japanese mentality of working 12+ hours a day, leaving both sexes too exhausted to deal with kids, especially when they are already dealing with taking care of THEIR aging parents.



But what about young people? Non married or in college? Not even having sex is an issue, and calling it disgusting shows a trajectory that Japanese society is heading in the wrong direction.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 31, 2013)

'Disgusting?' I'd say it's more due to the social expectancy to become a housewife, therefore dropping all your dreams, and ambitions. So they avoid having sex so there is no risk of getting pregnant.


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## Shoukry (Oct 31, 2013)

.. I never thought I would hear of this happening anywhere..
If only the US could stop reproducing as much ..


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## Masa (Oct 31, 2013)

Concerning pubic hair in Japan; the vast majority of Japanese people visit public baths and onsens with friends, family, coworkers, etc. on a semi-regular or even regular basis. At these public bathing spots, everyone is butt naked. Shaved genitals will stick out like a sore thumb and is equivalent to telling everyone in the bath that you are promiscuous (you might not be, but that is how Japanese people view 'landscaping'). Most women probably just want to avoid having to explain to their mothers why they are trying out the American porn star look.


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## Zaru (Oct 31, 2013)

It's funny that a tradition of basically getting naked in groups exists in a country that is so adamant about censoring private parts


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## SAFFF (Oct 31, 2013)

Zaru said:


> It's funny that a tradition of basically getting naked in groups exists in a country that is so adamant about censoring private parts



I'll never understand why that law exists.


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## Jeαnne (Oct 31, 2013)

Its because manga bishies are too hot , so girls get disappointed when they see real men


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## Mider T (Oct 31, 2013)

First Tsurugi said:


> As I understand it this is mainly due to the fact that when a woman becomes pregnant in Japan, she is expected to resign and become a housewife. Japanese women thus have a choice between creating a family or furthering their career, so naturally many women have decided against the former in favor of the latter.
> 
> Other nations are able to prevent this from affecting their population growth via immigration. Regardless, I feel like every nation will inevitably head this way, Japan is just ahead of the curve in that regard.



This entire article is about the men not being interested in sex.


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## Masa (Oct 31, 2013)

Zaru said:


> It's funny that a tradition of basically getting naked in groups exists in a country that is so adamant about censoring private parts



Public bathing culture in Japan predates censorship laws which were imposed on them by western powers (and Japanese lawmakers are too lazy to change anything that doesn't have an immediate need of change). 

Besides, there is nothing sexual about public bathing in Japan considering genders use separate baths.


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## Savior (Oct 31, 2013)

Wolfarus said:


> Men becoming more and more feminine in looks and behavior
> 
> 
> .



I see this happening in North America as well. Is it to a larger extent there?


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## Mider T (Oct 31, 2013)

Masa said:


> Public bathing culture in Japan predates censorship laws which were imposed on them by western powers (and Japanese lawmakers are too lazy to change anything that doesn't have an immediate need of change).
> 
> Besides, there is nothing sexual about public bathing in Japan considering genders use separate baths.



Girls grope each other all the time in onsen.


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## First Tsurugi (Oct 31, 2013)

Mider T said:


> This entire article is about the men not being interested in sex.





> 45% of Japanese women aged 16-24 are ?not interested in or despise sexual contact?. More than a quarter of men feel the same way.



Literally the first line mentioned in the article.

Please read before commenting, tia.


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## Mider T (Oct 31, 2013)

I tend to blur out women's opinions.  Anyway, that doesn't discount what I said.


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## Incognito (Oct 31, 2013)

This whole article and the related study is actually pretty dubious (I would suspect sampling bias), libido as in a desire for sex is a fundamentally psychological thing that people actually have little control over (people cannot help being attracted to the opposite sex). Japan's birth-rate may be very low but a desire for children and a desire for physical sex are two very different things.


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## First Tsurugi (Oct 31, 2013)

Mider T said:


> I tend to blur out women's opinions.  Anyway, that doesn't discount what I said.



You posting weak bait like this discounts what you say.


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## Mider T (Oct 31, 2013)

The rest of the article supports my case so I rest it.  And how is it bait?  Are you a woman?


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## First Tsurugi (Oct 31, 2013)

[YOUTUBE]Yil_cn_1gMo[/YOUTUBE]

Here's a relevant BBC documentary about the subject.



Mider T said:


> The rest of the article supports my case so I rest it.  And how is it bait?  Are you a woman?



Supports what case? The issue is not merely because Japanese men don't want to have families/sex. It's an issue shared by both sexes.


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## Mider T (Oct 31, 2013)

That's clearly the issue here, biologically speaking who's wired to initiate?  Japanese men are even stereotyped in fiction as spineless and not interested in sex...haven't you seen Eden of the East?

It's not in the culture for a woman to make the first move, but today's men just don't want to.


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## First Tsurugi (Oct 31, 2013)

Mider T said:


> That's clearly the issue here, biologically speaking who's wired to initiate?



"Biological wiring" is irrelevant in the modern world. The only thing relevant here are cultural values, and even those are not absolute.



> Japanese men are even stereotyped in fiction as spineless and not interested in sex...haven't you seen Eden of the East?



I only watch good anime, sorry.



> It's not in the culture for a woman to make the first move, but today's men just don't want to.



It wouldn't matter even if men did want to though since many women aren't interested either.


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## Mider T (Oct 31, 2013)

First Tsurugi said:


> "Biological wiring" is irrelevant in the modern world. The only thing relevant here are cultural values, and even those are not absolute.



Not as long as we have urges and carnal desires it's not.



> I only watch good anime, sorry.



Now you're trolling.



> It wouldn't matter even if men did want to though since many women aren't interested either.



They are though, it isn't in their culture to make the first move but no matter who's making it they're gonna react the same way.


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## First Tsurugi (Oct 31, 2013)

Mider T said:


> Not as long as we have urges and carnal desires it's not.



Both sexes have those, neither have to be ruled by them.

If you get rid of societal expectations of men having to be the initiator, women will do it just the same. You already see this to some degree in Western countries. There is no biological imperative that prohibits this, it's purely a matter of culture and tradition, which are ephemeral things.



> They are though, it isn't in their culture to make the first move but no matter who's making it they're gonna react the same way.



There's no reason to think these women who claim to detest sex will suddenly go for it if only someone would take the initiative with them.

That's something limited to the dreams of white weaboos.


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## Mider T (Oct 31, 2013)

First Tsurugi said:


> Both sexes have those, neither have to be ruled by them.
> 
> If you get rid of societal expectations of men having to be the initiator, women will do it just the same. You already see this to some degree in Western countries. There is no biological imperative that prohibits this, it's purely a matter of culture and tradition, which are ephemeral things.
> 
> ...



Tradition MAY be ephemeral but I assure you culture isn't and to suggest it is is just lazy.  Sounds a wee bit spiteful too.

It's clear from this post that you think Japanese stereotypes are complete works of fiction, I assure you they aren't.  I can't really debate with a person who doesn't know anything about Japanese women and refuses/unable(?) to learn.

Good day.


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## First Tsurugi (Oct 31, 2013)

Banana man thinks he's an expert on Japanese women, ahahaha.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 31, 2013)

First Tsurugi you seem misinformed.


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## First Tsurugi (Oct 31, 2013)

Misinformed about what?

Don't come at me like that without offering anything of substance.


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## Masa (Oct 31, 2013)

Mider T said:


> Girls grope each other all the time in onsen.



In anime and your dreams, sure. In real life, not so much. And even if they do, its still not sexual.


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## First Tsurugi (Oct 31, 2013)

No Masa, Mider is an expert, didn't you hear?

He's watched lots of anime, so he knows what he's talking about.


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## TheCupOfBrew (Oct 31, 2013)

/wasjoking


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## First Tsurugi (Oct 31, 2013)

Oh my bad.

/sorry


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## Bontakun (Nov 1, 2013)

If the Japanese don't want to make babies, that's fine. But they need to be more welcoming to foreigners and open up more opportunities to settle semi-permanently in Japan so that the balance of youth to old people doesn't get all fucked up like it already is.

White and Black Americans for example have stopped reproducing, but they are importing Hispanics, etc., so their economy is doing fine.


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## Chelydra (Nov 1, 2013)

Where is that Proud to be Asian wanker, he needs to see this thread


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## Black Wraith (Nov 1, 2013)

Chelydra said:


> Where is that Proud to be Asian wanker, he needs to see this thread



He would be awesome in this thread, just thinking about it makes me raff:rofl


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