# H2 Ichigo,2nd Ulquiorra & Monster Aizen Vs The Akatsuki



## SilverMizuji (Jul 7, 2014)

Location: Time Chamber (Dbz)
Bloodlusted 
No Prep.
 Speed Eq
 Mask Can't be broken




how does this go?


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## Nyxzer (Jul 7, 2014)

Ulquiorra solos.


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## Iwandesu (Jul 7, 2014)

Akatsuki is raped by Aizen


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## Chad (Jul 7, 2014)

Ulquiorra is irrelevant in this match, and so is Ichigo. Aizen is very powerful with the recent boosts, but eventually gets overwhelmed by the likes of Edo Hokages, kibaku nendo, Itachi the solo king, soul fucking dragons, Kamui, etc. And if Konan does have prep, her accumulative damage can possibly damage Aizen as well.


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## Sablés (Jul 7, 2014)

Aizen uses Fragor,

 Faster and widespread enough to take them all out with a single hit.

EDIT: Didn't see the OP. Same shit regardless


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## Casanova (Jul 7, 2014)

Aizen solos with Fragors, while H2 Ichigo and Ulquiorra go to the movies to watch Transformers:Age of Extinction.


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## DarkTorrent (Jul 7, 2014)

depends on the version of Obito


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## Stermor (Jul 7, 2014)

what feat of aizens was calced? that would give him anywhere ever close to enough power to take out the akatsuki? or is that some powerscaling because of suposed transencendy crap?


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## LazyWaka (Jul 7, 2014)

Stermor said:


> what feat of aizens was calced? that would give him anywhere ever close to enough power to take out the akatsuki? or is that some powerscaling because of suposed transencendy crap?



Powerscaling he's above Kenny who's to much for any of the akatsuki bar Obito w/bijuu.


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## Darth Niggatron (Jul 8, 2014)

Kabuto uses ET, Hashirama solos GG.
Bijuus nuke GG.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Jul 8, 2014)

LolET.
He needs dead bodies, unless he starts killing the weaker members of akatsuki first then he's as good as dead. 
Also, not like it matters, aizen fires a fragor, everyone dies.


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## Darth Niggatron (Jul 8, 2014)

Nagato absorbs his Fragor. Throws gigaton CST at him.
He gets sent flying by the impact. 
Kamui GG.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Jul 8, 2014)

H2 ichigo sends air slashes at their general direction.


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## Darth Niggatron (Jul 8, 2014)

Kisame tanks them. H2 looks around, oh fuck, Konan has 600 billion paper bombs waiting. He gets disoriented and injured badly by the attack.
But Akatsuki aren't done.
Triple digit megaton C10 GG.


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## Aphelion (Jul 8, 2014)

Kyoka Suigetsu, Fragor, down and done.  H2 and Ulq aren't even needed.

Oh and even if Preta path could absorb an attack as powerful as Fragor, it wouldn't make a difference seeing as Aizen can casually lob the things.


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## Darth Niggatron (Jul 8, 2014)

Irrelevant as fuck.
Tell me how he counters being tossed by CST.


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## Darth Niggatron (Jul 8, 2014)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> Lol @
> -Kisame tanking H2's attacks.



He tanked AT which is>>>H2.


> -konan able to set her paper bombs before she die. (Even then, it's not like it'd faze them considering it's spread as fuck.)



She starts setting it up as soon as the match starts. Kisame and Deidara keep H2 busy.


> -And nagato somehow performing preta path while doing CST.



Pein/Nagato. Whatevs.


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## Darth Niggatron (Jul 8, 2014)

Also, the 600, 000, 000, 000 bombs=600 megatons.


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## Chad (Jul 8, 2014)

> He needs dead bodies,



I could have sworn that White Zetsu is a part of the Akatsuki.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Jul 8, 2014)

LolAT.
H2 physically crushed lanza with his palm.



> She starts setting it up as soon as the match starts. Kisame and Deidara keep H2 busy.


Implying that H2 is the only one here.
Implying that the two of them can stall H2.
Implying that the two wouldn't just die from a cero or whatever.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Jul 8, 2014)

> Also, the 600, 000, 000, 000 bombs=600 megatons.


Wat?
Nardo verse's paper bombs are like a few tons of TnT at best.
Also, it is spread as fuck ergo, only a portion of it would be imparted on whoever is inside it's blast radius.
Especially if you are fucking human sized.


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## LazyWaka (Jul 8, 2014)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> Wat?
> Nardo verse's paper bombs are like a few tons of TnT at best.



That would make the energy result higher.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Jul 8, 2014)

Just realized, yeah. 
Not like it matters anyway.
It's energy is spread ala carpet bomb style.


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## Pocalypse (Jul 8, 2014)

This is a joke match right? Akatsuki would get destroyed, base Aizen would be enough alone to defeat all of them. Monster Aizen is just to much and Ichigo and Ulqy aren't even needed. And Konan needs prep for her 600 billion bombs...that scenario will turn out in her bombing the rest of the members whilst under the influence of KS.


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## Darth Niggatron (Jul 8, 2014)

You have a lot to learn, young one.
In this place, Bleach ain't shit.
Fuckin' recent upgrades.

So yea, no. Base Aizen gets his shit wrecked by Itachi.


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## Pocalypse (Jul 8, 2014)

Lol no. Aizen's one finger would be enough to batter Itachi. Itachi has nothing which can damage Aizen with, let alone monster Aizen. Aizen's KS > Itachi's Genjutsu skills. He'd even break Susano'o into pieces as well with just his raw strength alone.


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## LineageCold (Jul 8, 2014)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> Lol @
> -Kisame tanking H2's attacks.
> -konan able to set her paper bombs before she die. (Even then, it's not like it'd faze them considering it's spread as fuck.)
> -*And nagato somehow performing preta path while doing CST*.



I'm not saying he "absolutely" can, but it's nowhere far fetched.

Nagato was able to use human realm & preta at the same time.



Also he was able to use Animal path, Naraka path, Human path & Ashura path at the same time


*Spoiler*: __ 








So he can use it if needed.


Also for the match, H2 & uql are non factors, azien can destroy half of the Akatsuki pretty easily , but when it comes down to Itachi (Genjutsu, or Tyski) Obito (intangibility, 5 minutes inzangi, kamui) & kabuto (army of ET) & nagato (gedo manzo soul rip dragons, CST, ) they will overcome him.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Jul 8, 2014)

Pocalypse said:


> Lol no. Aizen's one finger would be enough to batter Itachi. Itachi has nothing which can damage Aizen with, let alone monster Aizen. Aizen's KS > Itachi's Genjutsu skills. He'd even break Susano'o into pieces as well with just his raw strength alone.



Since when could Aizen break city+ durability Susanoo? Especially before Itachi does anything to him. He was only on that level in Monster form until all of these ridiculous things he's getting scaled to now.


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## Darth Niggatron (Jul 8, 2014)

Pocalypse said:


> Lol no. Aizen's one finger would be enough to batter Itachi. Itachi has nothing which can damage Aizen with, let alone monster Aizen. Aizen's KS > Itachi's Genjutsu skills. He'd even break Susano'o into pieces as well with just his raw strength alone.



Yes, because you say so.
FRS>>>Base Aizen.
Susano'o>>FRS.
Anyway, sharingan can see through the visual aspect of KS, so that's a no-no.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Jul 8, 2014)

Not even, susano'o+yata was destroyed by sauce's kirin which was low city level.
Also base aizen (shinigami) was fucking with the likes of baraggan with just shear spiritual pressure.
And i'm pretty sure that aizen is > R2 Ulq.


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## ∞Eternity∞ (Jul 8, 2014)

Fragor should be enough to clear most of the akatsuki the problems i see here are obito's kamui and intangibility


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## Aphelion (Jul 8, 2014)

LineageCold said:


> Also for the match, H2 & uql are non factors, azien can destroy half of the Akatsuki pretty easily , but when it comes down to Itachi (Genjutsu, or Tyski) Obito (intangibility, 5 minutes inzangi, kamui) & kabuto (army of ET) & nagato (gedo manzo soul rip dragons, CST, ) they will overcome him.


They're not non factors per say, just that Aizen doesn't need them to solo.

Chances are that Itachi, Nagato and Kabuto going to get blown to hell before they can pull any of that off, and ET requires prep.

Obito has no way to put Aizen down, and with KS, he'll get him sooner or later.


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## LineageCold (Jul 8, 2014)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> Not even, susano'o*+yata was destroyed by sauce's kirin *



There's no evidence to prove that, the yata mirror is not originally apart of itachi's sussano, it's just a item, & if it were destroyed, he wouldn't be able to resummoned.

Every time itachi used his sussano, it went through stages of stabilization (ribs to skeleton, or Skelton to final sussano) it would of been impossible for him to stabilize two stages of sussano (and his yata mirror ) in the timeframe a kirin was diving down at him.

It was his skeleton sussano which was blowned off by sauce karrin.


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## Chad (Jul 8, 2014)

KS only manipulates the 5 senses, Nagato has a sixth sense thay remains untouched.

Its getting highly MvC in here


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## Chad (Jul 8, 2014)

And lol Darth Ghana

KS is hypnosis, not genjutsu. Sharingan cant see through it


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## Aphelion (Jul 8, 2014)

Astral said:


> Nagato has a sixth sense


Care to elaborate?


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## LineageCold (Jul 8, 2014)

TheEndAll said:


> *They're not non factors per say*, just that Aizen doesn't need them to solo.



A single "Amaterasu" would merk them (or a Tsuka blade)



> Chances are that Itachi, Nagato and Kabuto going to get blown to hell before they can pull any of that off, and * ET requires prep*.



Ah, where are you getting this notion from? Kabuto doesn't need prep for ET, all of his "Edos" shown he can resummon them back from there coffins, he doesn't need a sacrifice (or Dna) to summon his ET again which he already made a scarifice for.



> Obito has no way to put Aizen down, and with KS, he'll get him sooner or later.



He has kamui, gedo manzo soul rip & 5 minutes of inazagi . Also his "genjutsu" would fuck azien over.

Obito's genjutsu was able to brain fuck the "Fourth mizukage" for months in without him realizing or breaking out of (even with a bijuu aid)


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## Chad (Jul 8, 2014)

Because Aizen cant manipulate Nagatos sixth sense, it becomes possible to differentiate whats real and whats fake. And to fall under KS, you have to look at his sword. Expert sensors can fight with their eyes closed, see rinne tensei Madz.

Amd i thought Monster Aizen doesnt use KS


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## Byakkö (Jul 8, 2014)

The Akatskui solos because everybody is stronger than the other guys

like more body weight and stuff


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## LazyWaka (Jul 8, 2014)

Astral said:


> And lol Darth Ghana
> 
> KS is hypnosis, not genjutsu. Sharingan cant see through it



It does pretty much the same thing, manipulate the 5 senses from the brain. It's just a shit ton harder to break.


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## Aphelion (Jul 8, 2014)

LineageCold said:


> A single "Amaterasu" would merk them (or a Tsuka blade)



Doesn't change the fact that they're above the majority of the Akatsuki.




> Ah, where are you getting this notion from? Kabuto doesn't need prep for ET, all of his "Edos" shown he can resummon them back from there coffins, he doesn't need a sacrifice (or Dna) to summon his ET again which he already made a scarifice for.



The Op would have to specify at what time it takes place, because currently I don't think he has access to most of the edos.  I somehow doubt that Kabuto could just resummon his whole army after they've been sealed and released.  Anyway Aizen is going to be throwing Fragors right off the bat, so he's not going to get a chance to use it.




> He has kamui, gedo manzo soul rip & 5 minutes of inazagi . Also his "genjutsu" would fuck azien over.
> 
> Obito's genjutsu was able to brain fuck the "Fourth mizukage" for months in without him realizing or breaking out of (even with a bijuu aid)



That's nice and all but certainly not enough to say that it would "fuck him over." or even that it's above KS.  As for the Gedo Mazo thing I'm not sure.  Depends on the mechanics of the soul attack as well as the durability of the statue itself.



> Because Aizen cant manipulate Nagatos sixth sense, it becomes possible to differentiate whats real and whats fake.


I'm asking what exactly the 6th sense is and how it is potent enough to overcome KS.



> And to fall under KS, you have to look at his sword. Expert sensors can fight with their eyes closed, see rinne tensei Madz.
> 
> And i thought Monster Aizen doesnt use KS


They would have no reason too, since no knowladge.  There's no reason for why monster Aizen wouldn't be able to use it.


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## Pocalypse (Jul 8, 2014)

Hanzo was able to dodge Gedo Mazo's soul rip using Shunshin, and Aizen is much faster than Hanzo. And yeah, what is this sixth sense exactly?


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## Darth Niggatron (Jul 8, 2014)

Pocalypse said:


> No, only way to negate KS is to touch Aizen's sword physically,


No Limits Fallacy.  





> Itachi will be to slow to react to KS whilst Aizen proceeds to slash his throat.


Except that Itachi is faster than Base Aizen.
And before you go all 'hurr durr Bleach2fast', I'd like to ask you to give me a speed feat that makes Aizen faster than Itachi.
Don't worry, take your sweet little time, I'll wait.


> You act like Sharingan can see through every illusion there is.


Not every illusion. Can see through KS for sure, though.



Astral said:


> And lol Darth Ghana
> 
> 
> KS is hypnosis, not genjutsu. Sharingan cant see through it



Illusion, mindfuck...who cares. We've been through this before.


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## Darth Niggatron (Jul 8, 2014)

Oh, and I negged you, Astral.
Darth Ghana your mum.


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## LazyWaka (Jul 8, 2014)

Pocalypse said:


> Hanzo was able to dodge Gedo Mazo's soul rip using Shunshin, and Aizen is much faster than Hanzo. And yeah, what is this sixth sense exactly?



Hanzo used a space/time ninjutsu to avoid it (aka, teleportation.)


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## Rivers (Jul 8, 2014)

Aizen teleports.


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## Iwandesu (Jul 8, 2014)

Pocalypse said:


> Most obvious examples:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


@waka, shunshin is not teleport. (is only fast movement tecnique)
pocalypse this feat is speedblitz troope calc stacking. 
it can't be calculated.
thus we don't use it.
take your time to find an actual feat as they are show there :


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## LineageCold (Jul 8, 2014)

TheEndAll said:


> That's nice and all but certainly not enough to say that it would "fuck him over." or even that it's above KS.  As for the Gedo Mazo thing I'm not sure.  Depends on the mechanics of the soul attack as well as the durability of the statue itself.



I will like to add onto my previous post, Obito also has his "Kamui's Projectiles " which can launch gaint shurikens at ridiculous velocity , which can pierce/cut "Gyuki" who has "Teraton dura" like as butter.


*Spoiler*: __ 














Also to finish up the job, he uses this (a stronger version of human path soul rip)


*Spoiler*: __ 









@ iwandesu , that was mostly a mistranslation, iirc, in the anime he teleported , also even looking at the manga panel suggest teleportation/ s/t Justus


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## LazyWaka (Jul 8, 2014)

Huh, other translations said he used a s/t jutsu. 

Which would honestly make more sense seeing as he's not even in the vicinity anymore (Minato class shunshin material required to do that) and shunshin doesn't require handsigns from what I recall.

That and translaters often mistranslate shunshin for s/t jutsu (for example, they just recently referred to sasukes teleport ability as a shunshin, even though it's clearly not.)


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## Iwandesu (Jul 8, 2014)

LazyWaka said:


> Huh, other translations said he used a s/t jutsu.
> 
> Which would honestly make more sense seeing as he's not even in the vicinity anymore (Minato class shunshin material required to do that) and shunshin doesn't require handsigns from what I recall.
> 
> That and translaters often mistranslate shunshin for s/t jutsu (for example, they just recently referred to sasukes teleport ability as a shunshin, even though it's clearly not.)


so we actually consider hanzo's sunshin as a legit s/t?
i'm fine with it. 
the main issue was always with sauce's one anyway.


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## Sablés (Jul 8, 2014)

Don't see how this reached 3 pages. How do any of the Akatsuki stave off a volley of Fragors?


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## LazyWaka (Jul 8, 2014)

Sabl?s said:


> Don't see how this reached 3 pages. *How do any of the Akatsuki stave off a volley of Fragors?*



They don't.


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## DarkTorrent (Jul 8, 2014)

they could

depends on what characters are considered as akatsuki in this thread and what versions of them


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## Regicide (Jul 8, 2014)

Pocalypse said:


> snip


Just so you know, those blitz tropes aren't exactly quantifiable.


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## Chad (Jul 8, 2014)

Fragors are like bug bites to Mokujins.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Jul 8, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> so we actually consider hanzo's sunshin as a legit s/t?
> i'm fine with it.
> the main issue was always with sauce's one anyway.



Hanzo needs some sort of bone considering his shitty showing


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## Chad (Jul 8, 2014)

Orochimaru's  may be able to stall Aizen for a couple seconds. Once that happens, Obito and Nagato can prepare their counters. Current Obito having double Kamui, has been proven to have quad digit warping speed. Preta path as far as I'm concerned only needs to absorb the tiny shell that is Fragor before it detonates. CT can also be used to redirect the trajectory of the Fragors, as Itachi says it can. 

It takes no more than a couple seconds for Orochimaru to sacrifice White Zetsu and summon Hashirama, and I have no doubt in my mind that Obito and Nagato can fend off Fragors for a couple seconds. Hashirama would seal the deal.


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## Aphelion (Jul 8, 2014)

> Once that happens, Obito and Nagato can prepare their counters.
> 
> Current Obito having double Kamui, has been proven to have quad digit warping speed. Preta path as far as I'm concerned only needs to absorb the tiny shell that is Fragor before it detonates. CT can also be used to redirect the trajectory of the Fragors, as Itachi says it can.
> 
> It takes no more than a couple seconds for Orochimaru to sacrifice White Zetsu and summon Hashirama, and I have no doubt in my mind that Obito and Nagato can fend off Fragors for a couple seconds. Hashirama would seal the deal.


You're making the assumptions that:

-Aizen will lob fragors directly at Obito or Nagato, as opposed to just in their general direction or at some other Akatsuki member.

-R2 Ulq and H2 Ichigo will just be twiddling their thumbs while this goes down.


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## DarkTorrent (Jul 8, 2014)

Kanashibari is limited by the strongest character it immobilized, so it's useless

and anyway you are overcomplicating things, Astral

since the OP didn't specify what version of characters then by default it is assumed that it's the strongest

which means Oro (if we count him as akatsuki) already has his edos prepped, so does Kabuto

and more importantly.... Juubito

so yeah


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## Sablés (Jul 8, 2014)

Astral said:


> Orochimaru's  may be able to stall Aizen for a couple seconds. Once that happens, Obito and Nagato can prepare their counters. Current Obito having double Kamui, has been proven to have quad digit warping speed. Preta path as far as I'm concerned only needs to absorb the tiny shell that is Fragor before it detonates. CT can also be used to redirect the trajectory of the Fragors, as Itachi says it can.
> 
> It takes no more than a couple seconds for Orochimaru to sacrifice White Zetsu and summon Hashirama, and I have no doubt in my mind that Obito and Nagato can fend off Fragors for a couple seconds. Hashirama would seal the deal.



"Body Freeze" falls under NLF unless you can properly explain the mechanics behind the jutsu. Based on that scan alone, it appears to be no more than a less advanced version of CoC. 

What feats place Obito's reactions at those speeds? Does he have feats of using Kamui in a similar fashion as Kakashi? What proof do you have that Fragor is a solid and doesn't pack the same amount of energy as the explosion? Not to mention that he can simply detonate it at his approximate location than waiting for them to counter. They'll be caught up in the blast radius regardless.

There's a whole lot less work for Aizen than there is for the Akatsuki.



DarkTorrent said:


> Kanashibari is limited by the strongest character it immobilized, so it's useless
> 
> and anyway you are overcomplicating things, Astral
> 
> ...



I thought it was the most recent unless specified? Juubito was a temporary transformation and should have been included in the OP if that was the case.


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## DarkTorrent (Jul 8, 2014)

speed is equal

so any speed discussion is pointless



Sabl?s said:


> I thought it was the most recent unless specified? Juubito was a temporary transformation and should have been included in the OP if that was the case.



not really

more like the most recent strongest version with feats:



> In other words, the character would be at their peak performance from the last time they appeared.



current Obito has no feats, his last performance at his peak was when he was Juubito

and even if we go by purely most recent, no matter if the character has feats or not for that version, then it would also mean Kabuto and Oro with ET 

and edo Akatsuki


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## LazyWaka (Jul 8, 2014)

Yeah, we use the most recent version, not the strongest (unless of course the most recent is the strongest.)


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## Rivers (Jul 8, 2014)

Oro using Edos was never part of Akatsuki...


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## Iwandesu (Jul 8, 2014)

LazyWaka said:


> Yeah, we use the* most recent *version, not the strongest (unless of course the most recent is the strongest.)


So...
Exaton black zetsu.
Edo dei,Itachi, kakuzu,nagato
Konan
Base Kabuto which has et
Orochimaru which can summon hokage
Hidan head
White zetsu army 
Kamui obito which has the preta path for random reason


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## Regicide (Jul 8, 2014)

Most recent versions of most of these characters are dead.


*Spoiler*: __ 




*Spoiler*: __ 




*Spoiler*: __ 




*Spoiler*: __


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## Sorin (Jul 9, 2014)

So why wouldn't Obito be able to bfr Aizen?

From there i don't think H2 Ichigo and Ulq can face all the rest of the Akatsuki.


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## Iwandesu (Jul 9, 2014)

Why black zetsu can't solo again?


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## DarkTorrent (Jul 9, 2014)

he isn't fast enough

plus flight fucks him over


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## Iwandesu (Jul 9, 2014)

DarkTorrent said:


> he isn't fast enough
> 
> plus flight fucks him over


Black zetsu is hagoromo brother and god tier which pierced juudara.
Why wouldn't he be faster than a pathetic incomplete juubi which is above even mach 2000?


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## Sablés (Jul 9, 2014)

Pain also outstrips high-tiers like Raikage in destructive capacity and combat efficacy however he damn sure isn't anywhere near as fast.

Similarly, you'd have to prove Black Zetsu can.

Not that it really matters considering Akatsuki might be Edo/Juubi enhanced versions and  they clear regardless.


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## DarkTorrent (Jul 9, 2014)

> Black zetsu is hagoromo brother and god tier which pierced juudara.



he isn't really a brother in the literal sense, he is more of Kaguya's creation

and yes, he can pierce the likes of Juubidara and also posses people but that requires him getting really close, which is impossible here because of flight



> Why wouldn't he be faster than a pathetic incomplete juubi which is above even mach 2000?



you misunderstood me

he isn't fast enough because speed is equal 

not getting into a BZ's speed debate


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## Iwandesu (Jul 9, 2014)

DarkTorrent said:


> he isn't really a brother in the literal sense, he is more of Kaguya's creation
> 
> and yes, he can pierce the likes of Juubidara and also posses people but that requires him getting really close, which is impossible here because of flight
> 
> ...


I indeed did,sorry. 
@Sabl?s, he could catch current nardo and sauce.


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## Gunstarvillain (Jul 9, 2014)

Who's going to tank fraggor spam and lanza/H2 cero at the same time? 
Also with H2 bare handing  lanza what's that put his durability at again?


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## Iwandesu (Jul 9, 2014)

Gunstarvillain said:


> Who's going to tank fraggor spam and lanza/H2 cero at the same time?
> Also with H2 bare handing  lanza what's that put his durability at again?


Low 2 digit city level.
Actually Tanking fragor and even lanza?
no one besides black zetsu.(Edo can easily restore from it.)
nagato can laughes to lanza while absorbing it,though. And his CT kills everyone bar condom Aizen and post versions with utter easy.
obito has kamui which can save his ass, be transfered to weapons and had a long range feat last week.
Also deidara casually nukes anyone besides Aizen .


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## Ashi (Jul 9, 2014)

Mach 2000 Black Zetsu

What'll we do next?


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## Iwandesu (Jul 9, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> Mach 2000 Black Zetsu
> 
> What'll we do next?


Mach 4000.
Ask kishimoron.
I can't believe myself.


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## Gunstarvillain (Jul 9, 2014)

Ya know back in the day I used to say zets would end up being very major or last one alive in the group.


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## Ashi (Jul 10, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> Mach 4000.
> Ask kishimoron.
> I can't believe myself.



Zetsu blind sided Madara he didn't match him in any visible speed


Anywho?


I think Mach 4000 Chojuro sounds about right


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## xlab3000 (Jul 10, 2014)

lolwut? Mach 4000 Zetsu.


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## Iwandesu (Jul 10, 2014)

xlab3000 said:


> lolwut? Mach 4000 Zetsu.


zetsu is a god tier which landed hits on nardo and sauce (also a blind hit on mad).
again, i have nothing to do with it, go lynch kishi.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Jul 10, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> Zetsu blind sided Madara he didn't match him in any visible speed
> 
> 
> Anywho?
> ...



mach 4000 high tiers confirmed


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## Iwandesu (Jul 10, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> Zetsu blind sided Madara he didn't match him in any visible speed
> 
> 
> Anywho?
> ...


not really.
he just wasn't serious on that fight. (being fair, there were no reasons to him actually kill the daimyous)
i'm still all up to mach 4k ems sauce and bsm nardo due to clearly keeping up with juubito on some extent


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## xlab3000 (Jul 10, 2014)

I always ask myself this. Why don't they move that fast anime? How become animes look aster than others when they're not?


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## Darth Niggatron (Jul 11, 2014)

That is why anime isn't canon. And Bleach isn't half as fast as people think it is.


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## Darth Niggatron (Jul 11, 2014)

Me too, tbh. I have no problem using fps for superhuman characters.
Provided it isn't an active usage of the blitz trope.

But then again, I also have no problems using FTL for newtonian ke.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Jul 11, 2014)

Well what particularly irks me is labeling them  just hypersonic + even though it's kind of obvious they're well over that.
Obviously, for other series that i know of too.
FTL KE is a different matter altogether though.


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## Byrd (Jul 11, 2014)

Jesus this thread.... 


Cancerdome is cancerdome


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## LazyWaka (Jul 11, 2014)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> Having no feats to quantify =/= slow.
> Bleach is fast, just unquantifiably fast.
> I mean, Post Dangai Ichigo dragged and blitzed Aizen for like 5 or so kilometers iirc.
> Even if you use just normal fps, it would be 605km/s.
> ...



Not really sure where you're getting the 5 kilometers thing. The most we can visibly tell they moved by the time Aizen reacted was akin to a hundred meters or so.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Jul 11, 2014)

Didn't he move aizen from the center of karakura outside of it? Can't really remember.


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## LazyWaka (Jul 11, 2014)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> Didn't he move aizen from the center of karakura outside of it? Can't really remember.



Yes, but Aizen showed to start reacting long before they actually made it out of town, at least mentally.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Jul 11, 2014)

LazyWaka said:


> Yes, but Aizen showed to start reacting long before they actually made it out of town, at least mentally.



Looking back at it, he did react mentally but the distance looks to be more like a kilometer or so.

On the other hand, aizen wasn't able to take action between the sequence, so idk.

There's also the case where starkk dragged orihime before kenpachi and ichigo can react iirc.
Basically making the distance at least > to the horizon distance.


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## Fujita (Jul 11, 2014)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> Having no feats to quantify =/= slow.
> Bleach is fast, just unquantifiably fast.



Pretty much 

Though from a battledome perspective it really doesn't matter. If you can't quantify it, you can't say how fast it is and you're just making things up if you try. These series do get shortchanged, but lack of evidence is lack of evidence 



> I mean, Post Dangai Ichigo dragged and blitzed Aizen for like 5 or so kilometers iirc.
> Even if you use just normal fps, it would be 605km/s.
> That's already quad digits base line.
> Honestly, the fact that we can't do it doesn't sit well with me.



Well, hiding the outlier _is_ a valid complaint, if maybe not here (transcendentals and all ) 

Not to mention that the proper method there is calc stacking, and normal FPS is just an excuse not to calc stack. Though the arguments against calc stacking aren't always all that convincing. We assume a character is moving at a given speed for speed scaling anyway, and long scalings multiply calc error just like using a previous calc for another calc does. Though since most calcs rely on a few scalings, and adding in more scalings to fuzzy numbers and then making up more fuzzy numbers is _on average_ worse than a long scaling (in some cases, calc stacking wouldn't have more error, but in most it probably would). 

But hey, it's just something we don't do. Not like I'd welcome the headache and the immediate tumor of bullshit numbers that we'd get. 



Pocalypse said:


> Look how far Aizen is and how quickly he appeared to Ichigo in a instant.



And how long is an instant? 



> Even Aizen's feat  trumps anything Itachi has shown.



I fail to see how duping Komamura with an illusion is a particularly awesome speed feat


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## ShadowReaper (Jul 11, 2014)

Aizen is a top/high-high tier in all HST, so he can take them down all at once.

Ulquiorra and Hichigo however can't, but each of them individually are still able to kill most of the Akatsuki.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Jul 11, 2014)

Fujita said:


> Well, hiding the outlier _is_ a valid complaint, if maybe not here (transcendentals and all )
> 
> Not to mention that the proper method there is calc stacking, and normal FPS is just an excuse not to calc stack. Though the arguments against calc stacking aren't always all that convincing. We assume a character is moving at a given speed for speed scaling anyway, and long scalings multiply calc error just like using a previous calc for another calc does. Though since most calcs rely on a few scalings, and adding in more scalings to fuzzy numbers and then making up more fuzzy numbers is _on average_ worse than a long scaling (in some cases, calc stacking wouldn't have more error, but in most it probably would).
> 
> But hey, it's just something we don't do. Not like I'd welcome the headache and the immediate tumor of bullshit numbers that we'd get.


Well, it's not like that invalidates the feat.
He still did blitz someone from a kilometer and that's impressive and it feels like saying he is just hypersonic+ reeks of downplay. 
Also, don't know about hiding the outlier on post dangai ichigo considering all he did in the fight was casual, and he is literally the god tier among those who are active in battle.
Even his blitz on aizen was just a casual move from his part.


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## LazyWaka (Jul 11, 2014)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> Well, it's not like that invalidates the feat.
> He still did blitz someone from a kilometer and that's impressive and it feels like saying he is just hypersonic+ reeks of downplay.
> Also, don't know about hiding the outlier on post dangai ichigo considering all he did in the fight was casual, and he is literally the god tier among those who are active in battle.
> Even his blitz on aizen was just a casual move from his part.



"hiding the outlier" has nothing to do with what tier you're in or how casually you did it. 

Who said he's just hypersonic + though? Pretty sure he's mhs ala powerscaling.


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## DarkTorrent (Jul 11, 2014)

why are u even discussing a blitz feat like it's something reliable in gauging speed in Bleach?


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## ZenithXAbyss (Jul 11, 2014)

LazyWaka said:


> "hiding the outlier" has nothing to do with what tier you're in or how casually you did it.


Maybe because you are the god tier, there's is little to doubt that it is an outlier. 


> Who said he's just hypersonic + though? Pretty sure he's mhs ala powerscaling.



Let's not kid ourselves waka , if not for the recent speed calc, he'd still be just hypersonic+ in speed.
And as it is, blitzing a normal human from 10m is > blitzing a supersonic character from 100m or even 100km, based on our current standards.
And that's exactly what irks me.


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## Iwandesu (Jul 11, 2014)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> Maybe because you are the god tier, there's is little to doubt that it is an outlier.
> 
> Let's not kid ourselves waka , if not for the recent speed calc, he'd still be just hypersonic+ in speed.
> And as it is, blitzing a normal human from 10m is > blitzing a supersonic character from 100m or even 100km, based on our current standards.
> And that's exactly what irks me.



I'm pretty sure there is a flash calc which used the fps value to get speed. (The glambler one iirc)
We shouldn't have problems with it as far as isn't plainly speedtroope and is the absolute god tier.
Also it is kinda lowballing cuz aizen is not a normal human to begin with 
This happens with other verses like hxh where post rose meruem blitz knucle and welvin from hundreds of meters and still is only mach 18+.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Jul 11, 2014)

Iirc, the reason it was approved was because it was flash doing it or something, idk. 

Edit:


> that usually results in hiding the outlier
> 
> 
> though I don't think that's possible here really  that's Flash for ya


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## LazyWaka (Jul 11, 2014)

Wait, what? Pretty sure it doesn't matter how powerful you are, using peak human numbers for fuckers who are blatantly superhuman is bullshit. Aizen being a god tier also just makes that more fallacious.

If that calc you guys are talking about used peak human numbers for a blatantly superhuman character just because the flash is the flash, then that calc would obviously be bullshit to.


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## LazyWaka (Jul 11, 2014)

I'm not even sure why you're using FPS in the Aizen case in the first place. Their is no indication that he wasn't able to see at all during the travel time.


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## Iwandesu (Jul 11, 2014)

LazyWaka said:


> I'm not even sure why you're using FPS in the Aizen case in the first place. Their is no indication that he wasn't able to see at all during the travel time.


There was on hxh though.
We use background images to get a lowballing size don't we? It is a similar case. A superhuman being blitz is obviously> an average human.
How something coming from a god tier can be an outlier ?
Anyway, yeah, it was some "flash is flash" argument.


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## LazyWaka (Jul 11, 2014)

Honestly I'd sooner accept calc stacking than this hiding the outlier shit. At least with calc stacking you aren't blatantly lying to get a number.


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## Iwandesu (Jul 11, 2014)

LazyWaka said:


> Honestly I'd sooner accept calc stacking than this hiding the outlier shit. At least with calc stacking you aren't blatantly lying to get a number.


I sadly don't know the term "hiding an outlier".
Can you explain me?


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## LazyWaka (Jul 11, 2014)

Hiding the outlier isn't specifically referring to something possibly being an outlier. The term can actually be a little misleading. It's more or less a pathetic attempt at getting around the calc stacking dilemma that plagues most blitz feats by applying asininely low speeds to characters that have no business being regarded to as that slow (aka: lying.)



> We use background images to get a lowballing size don't we? It is a similar case.



We also calc stack for size. Whats acceptable for one method of calcing may not be for another.



> How something coming from a god tier can be an outlier



Calc stacking was banned for potential outliers, are god tiers suddenly exempt from that as well?


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## Iwandesu (Jul 11, 2014)

LazyWaka said:


> Hiding the outlier isn't specifically referring to something possibly being an outlier. The term can actually be a little misleading. It's more or less a pathetic attempt at getting around the calc stacking dilemma that plagues most blitz feats by applying asininely low speeds to characters that have no business being regarded to as that slow (aka: lying.)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, Thank you for clarifying.
From outliers? Yes, afaik you need to do something which is very incosistent when compared to stronger folks showing and portrayal, a thing which should be impossible to happen when you are the folk.
From calc stacking? Nope. They lead to inflate results cuz they are based on the high showing of fights (which are bound to happen) and rely in too many assumptions.
So... it is a morality issue? I guess it can be a reason


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## Ashi (Jul 11, 2014)

NBD Seems to have no problem with outliers

uerrhark's Naruto can be 1000 TBBRS


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## Iwandesu (Jul 11, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> NBD Seems to have no problem with outliers
> 
> uerrhark's Naruto can be 1000 TBBRS


This is not nardo battledome,though.
outliers are a thing to anyone besides a top god tier.
Current nardo indeed could be this shit if he ever get to do such ludicrous speed feat,though


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## Brooks (Jul 11, 2014)

Black Zetsu still shits on them.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Jul 11, 2014)

LazyWaka said:


> I'm not even sure why you're using FPS in the Aizen case in the first place. Their is no indication that he wasn't able to see at all during the travel time.



Well, he didn't for the first 1 or so kilometers. 
Also, iirc there's also the same feat in db(namek)

As for wally's calc.



Also


> And as it is, blitzing a normal human from 10m is > blitzing a supersonic character from 100m or even 100km, based on our current standards.


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## Lurko (Jul 11, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> NBD Seems to have no problem with outliers
> 
> uerrhark's Naruto can be 1000 TBBRS



People still think Guy can beat Naruto and Sasuke there so no suprise.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Jul 11, 2014)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> People still think Guy can beat Naruto and Sasuke there so no suprise.



I don't think they think that, rather Gai is probably better, physically than them. They weren't blitzing Madara and holding him back with just air pressure. They're superior in pretty much every other way, or so.


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## Sablés (Jul 11, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> I indeed did,sorry.
> @Sabl?s, he could catch current nardo and sauce.



Since when?

I don't recall any impressive feats prior to attaching himself to Kaguya.


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## Iwandesu (Jul 11, 2014)

Sabl?s said:


> Since when?
> 
> I don't recall any impressive feats prior to attaching himself to Kaguya.


Which are the feats i'm refering to.
We have no reasons to believe he is doing anything different from supplying Kaguya with his chakra assimilation ability.(at least, both nardo and sauce overpowerd him sooner than when faced with Kaguya blows.)
Unless I'm missing something.


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## TPHxItachi (Jul 12, 2014)

TheEndAll said:


> They're not non factors per say, just that Aizen doesn't need them to solo.
> 
> Chances are that Itachi, Nagato and Kabuto going to get blown to hell before they can pull any of that off, and ET requires prep.
> 
> Obito has no way to put Aizen down, and with KS, he'll get him sooner or later.



Why has this went to long. Akatsuki face fucks bleach team.


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## TPHxItachi (Jul 12, 2014)

ShadowReaper said:


> Aizen is a top/high-high tier in all HST, so he can take them down all at once.
> 
> Ulquiorra and Hichigo however can't, but each of them individually are still able to kill most of the Akatsuki.



When did Aizen get so strong? He got wrecked by weak ass Dangai ichigo.

And one of these weak fragors can one shot Ulqurrio of he's fighting a member of the Akatsuki.

1. Itachi can fuck Aizen casually. One Amatersu and he will die, Amatersu burns Top Tiers like The Juubi V2 easily. Amatersu, without knowledge hasn't been dodge. Not even Kaguya( has dodged Amerastu, Kaguya would solo the beach verse with one back hand. And Equally it's only right we cancel out KS with Tsukoyomi. Cause there both to heavily opinionated, and have no limit fallacies.
Sasunoo is over kill. A fragor is slow as fuck, and will probably be popped by single magamata from Itachi and kill Aizen.
2. I'll do the bleach team a favor and will restrict the Gedo Mazo. 
Obito has dodge attacks from Juudara...And a team of Naruto speed sters casually(Eight Tails, RM Naruto, Gai) and they only sucessfully "Hit" Obito because Kakashi can send Attacks/projectiles to Obito's Diemision via his own Sharigan/Kamui/Space Time Tech.
3. Nagato and the rest of the Akatsuki proceed to fodderized Uloqurrio.


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## Iwandesu (Jul 12, 2014)

TPHxItachi said:


> When did Aizen get so strong? He got wrecked by weak ass* Dangai ichigo.*
> 
> And one of these weak fragors can one shot Ulqurrio of he's fighting a member of the Akatsuki.
> 
> ...


This "weak ass" is stupidly above kenpachi which fooderizes nagato and raikagenaut.
>nope
>Amaterasu can be intercepted by simple cutting out a member. Aizen has a hugeass healing factor.
>doesn't matter, it can be dodged Anyway. He just need to see the Fire coming.
>did sauce ever hit kaguya with amaterasu?
>It isn't. susanno doesn't bypass durability, only regeneration, it will never pierce through an island level+ on casual basis folk.
>Itachi magamata is well below fragor, the latter can completely destroy nagato's chibaku tensei.
>not wanting to be a dick but restrictions are up to the op.
>obito is a top speedsters exactly due to this, not even near enough to fight juudara on actual cqc and still slightly below of current aizen,though.(his kamui is indeed faster than aizen,though.)
>the last is pretty accurated


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## Darth Niggatron (Jul 12, 2014)

Er, Totsuka ignores durability. Ethereal sealing blade and all...


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## Stermor (Jul 12, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> This "weak ass" is stupidly above kenpachi which fooderizes nagato and raikagenaut.



why? kenpachi has much better feats.. provide me a single feat of dangia ichigo or aizen doing anything even remotly close to what kenpachi has done.. which there are none.. transcendence is just baseless hype at this point.. 

especially since ichigo's final shinigama powers where actually just quincy powers.. and he only got true shinigami powers in the royal palace. 

anyway aizen getting powercaled to be 10000 times stronger is just idiotic based on hype.


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## Source (Jul 12, 2014)

BZ is a non factor.



TensaXZangetsu said:


> NBD Seems to have no problem with outliers
> 
> uerrhark's Naruto can be 1000 TBBRS



I'm more suprised by the fact that Hashirama fanboys think he can legitimately push current Naruto and Sasuke to extreme difficulty or even pull a win.


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