# Fastest Jutsu: Amaterasu vs Kamui



## RedChidori (Jul 11, 2014)

Title says it all my niggas .



VS



Which Jutsu is faster in general? Both are nigh instantaneous when they are fired. Soooooo, which is the faster Dojutsu?

READY!? DISCUSS   !!!!!!!!! _-RedChidori_


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## ARGUS (Jul 11, 2014)

Kamui is faster than amaterasu


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## trance (Jul 11, 2014)

I think it depends on the skill of the user.


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## crisler (Jul 11, 2014)

Seeing as they are the most 'alike' mangekyou jutsus that we've seen I think they should have the same activation speed, assuming that the same user is using them. 

So it practically depends on who's using it.

But seeing as amaterasu users are itachi and sasuke, who are uchihas and is using their own eyes, and itachi has been using it for many years, his amaterasu will be the fastest. then it's a competition between sasuke and kakashi: kakashi had his for longer, sasuke has naturally better conditions to control it. 

But for now, kamui vs amaterasu would result in a draw. the formation of amaterasu and kamui is practically the same, so both will negate the other.


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## Ersa (Jul 11, 2014)

About the same, slight edge to Kamui maybe. Mainly based on skill as people noted.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jul 11, 2014)

Amaterasu is faster by mechanics.


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## Arcana (Jul 11, 2014)

They should be around the same speed.


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## Mercurial (Jul 11, 2014)

Kamui's space-time barrier doesn't travel but appears directly opening (and closing) the portal right on the objective in every situation and from every distance (in the  you can see as it is counted as a short, mid and range jutsu); Amaterasu's flames are clearly shown to travel on the objective (in the databook it is counted as a short range jutsu and also by hype the Susanoo Magatama is Itachi's strongest long range jutsu); also Kamui doesn't require any chakra gathering (only at the beginning when Kakashi was still perfecting the jutsu, or sometimes for really big targets) while it is clearly shown that before you can send Amaterasu you have to concentrate your chakra; not only, a blood tear is ejected from the eye before the flames start; so while Kamui is nearly instant in activation + action, Amaterasu is fast but not as much as Kamui, clearly. There's also to say that Kamui screws who hits, because it warps away your head and that's GG, your heart and that's GG, your middle section and that's GG, it prisones your body in another dimension and that's GG. Amaterasu is not so deadly because if the enemy doesn't focus his eye at best to burn, there are a lot of different ways to save yourself from the flames. Also it is clearly easier, as said before, to anticipate and counter Amaterasu than Kamui. Kishimoto also clearly didn't care to shit on Amaterasu, but he never dared to do the same with Kamui; on the opposite, Kamui has been growing in a crazy way both in feats and hype. Thanks to the Kurama's chakra supply from Naruto, Kakashi's Kamui was depicted as a dangerous threat for even the Juubi (). Just read what is said from databook about Kakashi's Kamui (and that was when it wasn't perfected yet) ()() and what Kakashi says after having faced the Rinnegan and being against one believed to be Uchiha Madara (4). Kakashi's Kamui warped away even Juubi's jinchuriki Madara's Onmyoton Release who nullifies ninjutsu and shitted on Amaterasu when used on Juubito. LoL when Madara talked shit about EMS Sasuke's Amaterasu and praised MS Kakashi's Kamui on the Gedo Mazo. But let's talk about speed.

_*Some Kamui execution feats:*_

- Kakashi can canonically warp a human body part in the same time (instant) Obito needs to make it intangible (5)(6)
- Kakashi warps away two Susanoo arrows when both are already at half their way and his Sharingan was still the 3 tomoe one (7)(8)
- Kakashi warps away Minato's Rasengan countered by Juudara really in no time (9), Minato's arm kicked from Madara was hella fast if we think that Minato's body (obviously heavier and so less fast of the arm) went on Gaara so fast that his auto-defense couldn't activate in time
- Kakashi warps away a giant arm of the Gedo Mazo while Madara is already summoning it away with space-time summoning jutsu (10) (Minato couldn't do anything in that situation than ask Kakashi taking care of it)
- Kakashi feints to warp Naruto's Rasengan and then insta-warps away his body before Obito's spikes could hit him, managing to make Obito think that Kakashi missed and he succesfully hit the clone (11)(12)(13). So Kakashi can Kamui away human head sized objects in a more or less instant time and even with fast moving objects/people and unpredictable situations. And he can Kamui away human body sized objects in also nearly istant times, and even giant objects. 

And then let's go with Amaterasu:

- Edo Tensei Itachi (so Itachi at his best; he didn't feel the weakening from the illness and the low chakra levels; and no one can argue that Edo are less stroger than alive people, Viz scan shows clearly Madara saying that he isn't stronger after he was Rinne Tensei'd but he could feel the real battle because of an alive body and that's all; also no one ever said that Edo were weaker than their alive counterparts) tried to use Amaterasu and before he could launch the jutsu Nagato (who through Deva couldn't even perceive Kakashi's Kamui on the Shinra Tensei'd nail in spite of it being done in front of his eyes) can feel the chakra gathering and say everyone to be careful (14)(15), but the best thing is that before the jutsu is lauched, again, and after Itachi already cried blood from his eye, Killer Bee can fucking throw a sword against Itachi (16)... just think that thanks to shared vision, fucking Fu could dodge Killer Bee's thrown sword from point blank.
... just see how fast is Sasuke to launch Amaterasu on the Raikage ()() ... basically when Amaterasu is used everyone and their mother can react and at least try to do something, when Kakashi uses Kamui it happen so fast that people don't even realize it. 

Kamui >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Amaterasu all the way in everything. Even Shippuden beginning not perfected Kamui is far better than Amaterasu.


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## Rain (Jul 11, 2014)

Both jutsu are instant.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jul 11, 2014)

Raikiri19 said:


> Kamui's space-time barrier doesn't travel but appears directly opening (and closing) the portal right on the objective in every situation and from every distance (in the  you can see as it is counted as a short, mid and range jutsu); Amaterasu's flames are clearly shown to travel on the objective (in the databook it is counted as a short range jutsu and also by hype the Susanoo Magatama is Itachi's strongest long range jutsu); also Kamui doesn't require any chakra gathering (only at the beginning when Kakashi was still perfecting the jutsu, or sometimes for really big targets) while it is clearly shown that before you can send Amaterasu you have to concentrate your chakra; not only, a blood tear is ejected from the eye before the flames start; so while Kamui is nearly instant in activation + action, Amaterasu is fast but not as much as Kamui, clearly. There's also to say that Kamui screws who hits, because it warps away your head and that's GG, your heart and that's GG, your middle section and that's GG, it prisones your body in another dimension and that's GG. Amaterasu is not so deadly because if the enemy doesn't focus his eye at best to burn, there are a lot of different ways to save yourself from the flames. Also it is clearly easier, as said before, to anticipate and counter Amaterasu than Kamui. Kishimoto also clearly didn't care to shit on Amaterasu, but he never dared to do the same with Kamui; on the opposite, Kamui has been growing in a crazy way both in feats and hype. Thanks to the Kurama's chakra supply from Naruto, Kakashi's Kamui was depicted as a dangerous threat for even the Juubi (). Just read what is said from databook about Kakashi's Kamui (and that was when it wasn't perfected yet) ()() and what Kakashi says after having faced the Rinnegan and being against one believed to be Uchiha Madara (4). Kakashi's Kamui warped away even Juubi's jinchuriki Madara's Onmyoton Release who nullifies ninjutsu and shitted on Amaterasu when used on Juubito. LoL when Madara talked shit about EMS Sasuke's Amaterasu and praised MS Kakashi's Kamui on the Gedo Mazo. But let's talk about speed.
> 
> _*Some Kamui execution feats:*_
> 
> ...



Amaterasu is strictly an offensive technique with high lethality. Kamui can be used that way but it is mainly a utility jutsu.
So yes, Amaterasu failed more than Kamui did, but that is only because Kishimoto can't afford to kill characters left and right.

This by no means can be used as an argument.


Also Amaterasu appears on the spot just like Kamui, but it needs to make physical contact to ignite the target, just like Kamui needs to start warping after it appears, making both a two way process. Assuming they re being executed by shinobi with comparable mastery, they should be around the same speed. Kamui would have the edge in longer distances and Amaterasu would have the edge against bigger targets.


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## Kazekage94 (Jul 11, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Amaterasu is strictly an offensive technique with high lethality. Kamui can be used that way but it is mainly a utility jutsu.
> So yes, Amaterasu failed more than Kamui did, but that is only because Kishimoto can't afford to kill characters left and right.
> 
> This by no means can be used as an argument.
> ...



It's his manga. Amaterasu isn't instant. Every time it was used the targer was in closer quarters. Ay managed to dodge it yet it still kept going. Kamui is faster. Ama travels at extreme speeds.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jul 11, 2014)

Kazekage94 said:


> It's his manga. Amaterasu isn't instant. Every time it was used the targer was in closer quarters. Ay managed to dodge it yet it still kept going. Kamui is faster. Ama travels at extreme speeds.



It is stated and shown to be instant.

 Deidara dodged Kamui.


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## crisler (Jul 11, 2014)

Kazekage94 said:


> It's his manga. Amaterasu isn't instant. Every time it was used the targer was in closer quarters. Ay managed to dodge it yet it still kept going. Kamui is faster. Ama travels at extreme speeds.



by your logic, kamui isn't instant either since obito negated kakashis' kamui using his own. if kamui was instant obito shouldn't have been able to do that. not only is instant a commonly used term in this manga, it's almost an expression that basically means 'uber fast'

raikage avoided amaterasu because his movement was too fast for sasukes' sharingan to follow.


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## Kazekage94 (Jul 11, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> It is stated and shown to be instant.
> 
> Deidara dodged Kamui.



Scan please. 

Kakashi wasnt adept with Kamui though


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## Kazekage94 (Jul 11, 2014)

crisler said:


> by your logic, kamui isn't instant eitr since obito negated kakashis' kamui using his own. if kamui was instant obito shouldn't have been able to do that. not only is instant a commonly used term in this manga, it's almost an expression that basically means 'uber fast'
> 
> raikage avoided amaterasu because his movement was too fast for sasukes' sharingan to follow.



Uber speed is still not instant so...


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## crisler (Jul 11, 2014)

Kazekage94 said:


> Uber speed is still not instant so...



which applies to both kamui AND amaterasu.


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## StickaStick (Jul 11, 2014)

All things taken together, Kamui has better speed feats which Kishi has even emphasized; i.e., warping the Gedo's arm _mid-summon_. Or how about warping a clone at a speed so fast that Obito only several feet away couldn't register it? In contrast, Kishi has gone out of his way to show Ama being trolled by the likes of Ei.

Now if we throw Kamui with dbled-warp speed into the mix... 

Regardless, both are incredibly fast in terms of execution.


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## wooly Eullerex (Jul 11, 2014)

they're both ''instant'' ocular/ethereal/abstract materialization jutsu


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## Kazekage94 (Jul 11, 2014)

crisler said:


> which applies to both kamui AND amaterasu.



Ok then they arent instant just like I said. But Kamui is faster


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## animeboy1 (Jul 11, 2014)

Seems, like it would depend upon the user, since it pertains to the same catalyst.


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## crisler (Jul 11, 2014)

Kazekage94 said:


> Ok then they arent instant just like I said. But Kamui is faster



care to explain?


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jul 11, 2014)

Kazekage94 said:


> Scan please.



Just read the parts where Itachi used it on Sasuke's katon, or Nagato & his summons. And Zetsu's remark on how Amaterasu emerges on where the eye focus on.

There is no scans about Kamui being instant either, btw.



> Kakashi wasnt adept with Kamui though


True, but he never said anything in regards to its speed. He rather commented on the size and placement of it.




The Format said:


> All things taken together, Kamui has better speed feats which Kishi has even emphasized; i.e., warping the Gedo's arm _mid-summon_. Or how about warping a clone at a speed so fast that Obito only several feet away couldn't register it? In contrast, Kishi has gone out of his way to show Ama being trolled by the likes of Ei.
> 
> Now if we throw Kamui with dbled-warp speed into the mix...
> 
> Regardless, both are incredibly fast in terms of execution.



Amaterasu would have finished off Gedo, because even the flames ignited a small part of it, they'd spread and burn it down. Teleporting away wouldn't have saved it. 
That is Amaterasu's superiorty over Kamui. A mere contact is enough.


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## Dr. White (Jul 11, 2014)

both depend on the reactions of the user.Tobi was completely caught off guard and couldn't Kamui in time to dodge amaterasu. But if Sauce fired it straight ahead in a 1 v 1 fight, Tobi could pre empt it with Kamui before fully charged.

Amaterasu summons around the users focus. All time is dependant on the charge time.

Kamui seems to be completely dependant on warp speed, which is why Minato could escape while partially warped, same with Diedara while flying, but later one with increased skill, kakashi and Obito upped their warp time.

So it really depends.


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## Bonly (Jul 11, 2014)

I'd say Kamui is the faster of the two. Both are pretty much around the same speed while Kamui seems a bit faster but double Kamui can increase the speed so yeah


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## StickaStick (Jul 11, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Amaterasu would have finished off Gedo, because even the flames ignited a small part of it, they'd spread and burn it down. Teleporting away wouldn't have saved it.
> That is Amaterasu's superiorty over Kamui. A mere contact is enough.



Except that Ama through chakra build up in the eye, etc. wouldn't have been fast enough to hit the Gedo mid-summon. The advantage you're asserting can also turn into a disadvantage against targets who can disperse the flames via Preta Path, ST, etc. whereas there is no similar defense again a Kamui snipe to the head. I do agree tho that each has their pluses and minuses and are ideal in different situations.


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## Krippy (Jul 11, 2014)

They are the same speed.




The Format said:


> All things taken together, Kamui has better speed feats which Kishi has even emphasized; i.e., warping the Gedo's arm _mid-summon_.



Kakashi had enough time to utter some words to Minato and Vice-versa. All things considered its not a great feat.



> Or how about warping a clone at a speed so fast that Obito only several feet away couldn't register it?



That's the speed of the warping, not the time it takes to create the wormhole. 



> in contrast, Kishi has gone out of his way to show Ama being trolled by the likes of Ei.



Ei would have done the same to Kamui. Its all plot.


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## Kazekage94 (Jul 11, 2014)

crisler said:


> care to explain?



Read what the Kakashi fan said


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## Kai (Jul 11, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Amaterasu would have finished off Gedo, because even the flames ignited a small part of it, they'd spread and burn it down. Teleporting away wouldn't have saved it.
> That is Amaterasu's superiorty over Kamui. A mere contact is enough.


However, in the Juubito fight it was proven when Minato and Tobirama used the Hiraishin swap that the black flames disappeared from Minato's body even after contact was made.


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## DaVizWiz (Jul 11, 2014)

They're not instant.

Amaterasu has been reacted to/dodged several times in canon. Ei dodged it, Hebi Sasuke dodged it, Jubito reacted to it, Nagato noticed it before it was going to be fired. 

No one has reacted to Kamui in current manga, namely Kakashi's, because it actually spawns on the location. Amaterasu is shot at the opponent and cannot go past a barrier. 

Kamui is faster, it allowed escape from truth seekers, Ei's blitz, swallowed up Susano Arrow and a Gedo Mazo arm being summoned, phased through Judara's swing and countless attacks by BM Naruto + Masters. No one in the manga has reacted to or dodged it to date.


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## Dr. White (Jul 11, 2014)

DaVizWiz showing that ignorance per usual


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## StickaStick (Jul 11, 2014)

Krippy said:


> Kakashi had enough time to utter some words to Minato and Vice-versa. All things considered its not a great feat.


Mads disagrees [1].



> That's the speed of the warping, not the time it takes to create the wormhole.


The creation of the wormhole still needs to precede the actual warping so in that case it still noteworthy since both occurred more or less simultaneously. 



> Ei would have done the same to Kamui. Its all plot.


K.


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## DaVizWiz (Jul 11, 2014)

Dr. White said:


> DaVizWiz showing that ignorance per usual


Dr. White with his head in the lap of the Uchiha "per usual". What the fuck does "per usual" mean? As usual you mean? 

Fanboy calling me ignorant because I don't agree that Itachi's technique is faster than Kakashi's? L0L it funny cause he sucky Itachi fictional wiener

Should I be offended or just laugh?

Don't address me with an insult in a thread again, you're on my IL so I can't trash you afterwards, it's cowardly to do so.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Jul 11, 2014)

Kamui is faster based off showings and the fact it's speed can double when used in it's proper pairing makes it the clear winner in my eyes.

Yeah both have their strengths and weaknesses but kamui wins in speed.


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## Dr. White (Jul 11, 2014)

DaVizWiz said:


> Dr. White with his head in the lap of the Uchiha "per usual". What the fuck does "per usual" mean? As usual you mean?
> 
> Fanboy calling me ignorant because I don't agree that Itachi's technique is faster than Kakashi's? L0L it funny cause he sucky Itachi fictional wiener
> 
> ...



   

Doesn't read my first post

Doesn't realize I like Kakashi as much as Itachi

But go on Viz


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## Krippy (Jul 11, 2014)

The Format said:


> Mads disagrees [1].



Doesn't really change what I said. Missing the head of an enormous statue like that despite having a window of a few seconds is not a high end feat on Kamui's behalf.




> The creation of the wormhole still needs to precede the actual warping so in that case it still noteworthy since both occurred more or less simultaneously.



KK.



> However, in the Juubito fight it was proven when Minato and Tobirama used the Hiraishin swap that the black flames disappeared from Minato's body even after contact was made.



The black flames never touched Minato, the FRS orb hit his chest.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jul 12, 2014)

The Format said:


> Except that Ama through chakra build up in the eye, etc. wouldn't have been fast enough to hit the Gedo mid-summon. The advantage you're asserting can also turn into a disadvantage against targets who can disperse the flames via Preta Path, ST, etc. whereas there is no similar defense again a Kamui snipe to the head. I do agree tho that each has their pluses and minuses and are ideal in different situations.



There is no such thing as "mid summon." Summoning is instantaneous. It is the other way around. Madara summoned Gedo "mid Kamui."



Kai said:


> However, in the Juubito fight it was proven when Minato and Tobirama used the Hiraishin swap that the black flames disappeared from Minato's body even after contact was made.



Nope. The jutsu didn't detonate on Minato. The contact was so brief that the flames didn't have a chance to burn Minato. Because of the manga it is hard to tell these things but, the jutsu hitting Minato and swapping him with Obito happened simultaneously.


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## Sorin (Jul 12, 2014)

Kamui.

Better showings. Warping of full speed BM Naruto and Gedo Mazo arm mid summon trump everything Amaterasu has shown in terms of speed. Now double that speed and it's not even close.


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## Tinderat (Jul 12, 2014)

Think it would depend on the user and how fast their eyes track movements.


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## Jagger (Jul 12, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> It is stated and shown to be instant.
> 
> Deidara dodged Kamui.


Technically, it isn't instant. IIRC, the Databook described it as a "moving projectile" instead of a Katon technique that appears on the person. If it was like that, Juubito would have been caught by the jutsu instead of being fast to shield himself. It proves Amaterasu travels at a very high speed, but not magically appears on the opponent.


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## StickaStick (Jul 12, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> There is no such thing as "mid summon." Summoning is instantaneous. It is the other way around. Madara summoned Gedo "mid Kamui."


Krippy actually correctly pointed out to me that in this case, Mads summons the Gedo and then there's a pause where it's out of Obito and some talking happens and then Kakashi Kamuis it before it poofs away. So in this case not instantaneous. Also not sure what you mean by mid-Kamui, unless you're saying Kakashi preempted the summoning?


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