# Law runs the Coliseum Gauntlet



## Daisuke Jigen (Aug 10, 2014)

Location: Corrida Coliseum, starting distance is 50 meters.
Intel: Full.
Mindset: IC.
Opponents are in order: Bartolomeo, Cavendish, DCJ (pointy head), Hakuba (no time limit), and Burgess.
S1: Fully healed after each fight.
S2: One heal.
S3: No heals.


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## Kaiser (Aug 10, 2014)

1- Clears or stops at Burgess(could go either way)
2- Stops at Hakuba or Burgess
3- Stops at Hakuba or Burgess


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## Ether (Aug 10, 2014)

Blake said:


> 1- Clears or stops at Burgess(could go either way)
> 2- Stops at Hakuba or Burgess
> 3- Stops at Hakuba or Burgess



Pretty much this though I think Law in the third scenario might potentially lose to DCJ with his pointy head out of fatigue. If not there, then he would most likely stop at Hakuba and definitely Burgess.


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## zoro (Aug 10, 2014)

S1: He stops at Hakuba. I think he's just too fast for Law. The ability to teleport inside his room will make it a troublesome fight for the Whirlwind though

S2: He uses his heal after Barto and Cav, then beats Chinjao. He won't get past Hakuba

S3: He stops at Chinjao


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## Pyriz (Aug 10, 2014)

Scenario 1 - I think he clears.

Scenario 2 - Stops at Burgess

Scenario 3 - Stops at Hakuba


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## Dunno (Aug 10, 2014)

S1: Clears. Burgess might push him a bit, but he should be able to take it. 
S2: Stops at Burgess. 
S3: Stops at Hakuba.


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## trance (Aug 11, 2014)

S1: Clears
S2: Stops at Hakuba
S3: Stops at Hakuba


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## Dunno (Aug 11, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> S1: Clears
> S2: Stops at Hakuba
> S3: Stops at Hakuba



This doesn't work. 

How can he clear with heals between matches, stop at Hakuba without a heal and then stop at Hakuba with a heal as well?


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## Extravlad (Aug 11, 2014)

Stops at Hakuba in every scenario.


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## Shinthia (Aug 11, 2014)

S1 : clears
S2 : clears
S3 : stops at Hakuba


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## Monster (Aug 11, 2014)

S1: Clears
S2: Hakuba
S3: Chinjao


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## StrawHat4Life (Aug 11, 2014)

Clears.
Clears.
Gets stopped by a surge elbow to the face.


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## Canute87 (Aug 11, 2014)

StrawHat4Life said:


> Clears.
> Clears.
> Gets stopped by a surge elbow to the face.



Burgess takes his hat as a trophy.


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## barreltheif (Aug 11, 2014)

I think Hakuba would beat Law. Speedsters are bad matchups for Law.


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## zenieth (Aug 11, 2014)

Since when exactly?


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## Impact (Aug 11, 2014)

barreltheif said:


> I think Hakuba would beat Law. Speedsters are bad matchups for Law.



He did well against smoker, who's speed isn't something to blank at


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## StrawHat4Life (Aug 11, 2014)

If Law can handle Vergo's speed than Hakuba shouldn't so much of a problem.


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## blueframe01 (Aug 11, 2014)

Clears Scenario 1 & 2.
Loses to Burgess in the 3rd.


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## Luke (Aug 11, 2014)

Clears Scenario 1 and barely clears Scenario 2. 

Loses Scenario 3 to Burgess or Hakuba.


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## barreltheif (Aug 11, 2014)

Law struggled against Smoker's and Vergo's speed. Vergo even blitzed Law and stole his heart out of his own hand.
Hakuba is much, much faster than Vergo.


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## zenieth (Aug 11, 2014)

Law never struggled against Smoker's speed.

And if he struggled against Vergo.

He sure as fuck didn't when he put his heart back in.


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## zenieth (Aug 11, 2014)

Unless you think Vergo decided to get seven shades slower when he went Full Haki


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## barreltheif (Aug 11, 2014)

zenieth said:


> Law never struggled against Smoker's speed.
> 
> And if he struggled against Vergo.
> 
> He sure as fuck didn't when he put his heart back in.




Law got blitzed by Vergo, and Vergo beat the crap out of him. Law got his heart back, but Vergo knocked it out of his hand.
Read the manga.


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## zenieth (Aug 11, 2014)

barreltheif said:


> Law got blitzed by Vergo, and Vergo beat the crap out of him. Law got his heart back, but Vergo knocked it out of his hand.
> Read the manga.



Vergo dashed at Law from the exact same distance he was before

After Law finally got his heart back

In a super mode

Got his shit cut for his troubles.

Read the manga.


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## NO (Aug 11, 2014)

Hakuba's speed feat is actually ridiculous since nobody is going to beat it besides Sabo/Admirals/Yonko/Yonko Crew/etc.

Though, to be honest, it was kind've ridiculous. Nobody should ever put Hakuba in a fight based on that one feat.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Aug 11, 2014)

jayjay32 said:


> Hakuba's speed feat is actually ridiculous since nobody is going to beat it besides Sabo/Admirals/Yonko/Yonko Crew/etc.
> 
> Though, to be honest, it was kind've ridiculous. Nobody should ever put Hakuba in a fight based on that one feat.


Considering that the fodder whom Luffy fodderized while eating lunch could react to Hakuba, yeah, that's a hard feat to top.


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## Shinthia (Aug 11, 2014)

> jayjay32 said:
> 
> 
> > Hakuba's speed feat is actually ridiculous since nobody is going to beat it besides Sabo/Admirals/Yonko/Yonko Crew/etc.
> ...


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## Firo (Aug 11, 2014)

barreltheif said:


> Hakuba is much, much faster than Vergo.



Yeah.. No. 
Hakuba's speed is overrated.
Scenario 1: Law Clears
Scenario 2: Law stops at Burgess or clears 
Scenario 3: Stops at Hakuba


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## tanman (Aug 11, 2014)

Smoker very much did outspeed Law. 

Still,
s1 - Stops at Burgess (I have a lot of hype in my heart for Burgess)
s2 - Stops at Hakuba
s3 - Stops at Chinjao


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## zenieth (Aug 11, 2014)

tanman said:


> Smoker very much did outspeed Law.



Nope?

Nope.


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## Firo (Aug 11, 2014)

tanman said:


> Smoker very much did outspeed Law.
> 
> Still,
> s1 - Stops at Burgess (I have a lot of hype in my heart for Burgess)
> ...



He tagged him once IIRC. After that, he didnt tag him nor did Law have trouble reacting to him.


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## zenieth (Aug 11, 2014)

he tagged him due to him having a fruit that's suited to maneuverability.

You can say that Smoker pressured Law, which i'd call a fair assessment.

Smoker never out sped him.


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## Fenrir (Aug 11, 2014)

Why are people hyping Hakuba's speed so much?

Isn't the very reason that Rebecca survived him and won her block was that her CoO allowed her to time his speed? I'm sure if Rebecca can do it then Law can.


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## TheWiggian (Aug 11, 2014)

s1: clears
s2: stops at Burgess
s3: stops at DCJ


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## zoro (Aug 11, 2014)

Fenrir said:


> Why are people hyping Hakuba's speed so much?
> 
> Isn't the very reason that Rebecca survived him and won her block was that her CoO allowed her to time his speed? I'm sure if Rebecca can do it then Law can.



She barely avoided the blow and still got injured. Law would do better ,obviously, but Hakuba's speed was still emphasized as something unusual. Sabo commented on how fast the action was, and Barto couldn't even tell what happened


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## Kaiser (Aug 11, 2014)

Why are people underrating Hakuba's speed because someone who specialized herself in observation haki in her entire life _barely_ noticed/avoided(didn't even really avoided that much and would have been killed regardless if she didn't have protection) an attack from him after going through 20 fighters all around the ring. 

Even Sabo(admiral level) hyped his speed and was literally *bending space* by just movement speed. Same cannot be said for people like Luffy/Vergo


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## Dellinger (Aug 11, 2014)

Bending space?

And Luffy can hit Rebecca without her realizing what even hit her.


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## Firo (Aug 11, 2014)

Blake said:


> Why are people underrating Hakuba's speed because someone who specialized herself in observation haki in her entire life _barely_ noticed/avoided(didn't even really avoided that much and would have been killed regardless if she didn't have protection) an attack from him after going through 20 fighters all around the ring.


Rebecca reacted to the attack. Sabo even noted this wasnt luck but her own
skill.


> Even Sabo(admiral level) hyped his speed and was literally *bending space* by just movement speed. Same cannot be said for people like Luffy/Vergo


Bending space?


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## Daisuke Jigen (Aug 11, 2014)

Red Hood said:


> He tagged him once IIRC. After that, he didnt tag him nor did Law have trouble reacting to him.


I think that was because Law was focused on Tashigi and Smoker managed to get behind him.


Red Hood said:


> Rebecca reacted to the attack. Sabo even noted this wasnt luck but her own
> skill.
> 
> Bending space?


Add him to Super Ignore...trust me, you'll be doing yourself a favor...


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## Kaiser (Aug 11, 2014)

Yes he was bending space



And like i've said Sabo was astonished by his speed. It's stupid to underestimate it because Rebecca(who specializes in observation haki since she is born) barely escaped death due to protection after him going through 20 fighters all over the ring beforehand when Luffy in gear second couldn't even overcome 3 in fishmen island(Hyouzou's group) or 2 in punk hazard(Caesar/Monet)


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## Fenrir (Aug 11, 2014)

Where the hell is space bent there


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## Kaiser (Aug 11, 2014)

The distortions on the rope shows it


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## Firo (Aug 11, 2014)

LolBlake    .


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## zoro (Aug 11, 2014)

That's a whip. That's what it does


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## Kaiser (Aug 11, 2014)

Not in this case. Look at the direction of the distortions. They are going backwards while in mid air, but i guess i can't explain it well, so i'll leave it at that. And @lol at the admiral wanker who keeps negging me in every posts i make just because i don't rate admirals as high as he wants to. It's funny how the liberty in opinion is impossible in this section


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## Dellinger (Aug 11, 2014)

Serious as hell base Luffy was blitzing Caesar like no tomorrow even in base.Base Luffy could outspeed an explosion.Base Luffy saved Kyros from a certain death while Doffy's foot was inches away from his head.Heck even someone like Kyros didn't even realize that Doffy got behind him.


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## Kaiser (Aug 11, 2014)

He could blitz him in 1vs1. He couldn't even overcome Caesar/Monet in a 2vs1 or Hyouzou's group despite being in gear second in both occasions


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## Ruse (Aug 11, 2014)

So Rebecca managed to react to someone who can "bend space" I think we need to stop looking down on Rebecca


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## Dellinger (Aug 11, 2014)

Blake said:


> He could blitz him in 1vs1. He couldn't even overcome Caesar/Monet in a 2vs1 or Hyouzou's group despite being in gear second in both occasions



You think a serious Luffy ouldn't destroy Monet and Caesar in a 1 vs 2 scenario?

And Luffy is half assing all the time,He's proven himself that not many in his tier can even keep up with his speed.


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## Kaiser (Aug 11, 2014)

White Hawk said:


> You think a serious Luffy ouldn't destroy Monet and Caesar in a 1 vs 2 scenario?
> 
> And Luffy is half assing all the time,He's proven himself that not many in his tier can even keep up with his speed.


He could destroy them, but he could never blitz them both at the same time like Hakuba could. 

And it depends on who you put in Luffy's tier in the first place. Because Monet/Caesar/Hyouzou are clearly not in his tier, so being capable to blitz someone like that isn't that much impressive


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## Dellinger (Aug 11, 2014)

Blake said:


> He could destroy them, but he could never blitz them both at the same time like Hakuba could.
> 
> And it depends on who you put in Luffy's tier in the first place. Because Monet/Caesar/Hyouzou are clearly not in his tier, so being capable to blitz someone like that isn't that much impressive



And Hakuba blitzed opponents weaker than Caesar so I don't get your point.

And if you think that Luffy can't blitz Rebecca then lol.The guy was eating and derping,and he still beat her in speed.


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## Firo (Aug 11, 2014)

Its like this dude doesnt know that some of those feats should be taken with a grain of salt.


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## Kaiser (Aug 11, 2014)

Caesar is stronger via hax. Doesn't mean he is physically as strong/stronger than the 20 colliseum fighters that Hakuba blitzed. Besides, we see now some of them taking on the officers. They may be stronger than you think

Besides, Luffy stated Rebecca had no intent to kill. She was likely not even using her all/observation during that encounter. Not to say he can't blitz her regardless though(he can, just like Monet/Caesar level as well, especially Caesar), but i'm saying he can only blitz them in a 1vs1. In a mele, we've already seen his movements can be perceived. 

You're underestimating the outside vision/perspective of opponents here. Hakuba on the other side showed the capacity to blitz multiple of them(completely disappearing from sight of different angles) at the same time. It's on a total different level than what Luffy showed the capacity to accomplish


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## Dellinger (Aug 11, 2014)

one of the D block guys got one shotted by Dellinger so yeah they're shit tier.Caesar could take some attacks from Luffy himself.Even a simple kick from Luffy knocked out Sai who is easily one of the strongest fights after Luffy/Burgess/Cabbage/Chinjao.

And we haven't see how Hakuba's speed does against worthy guys so you can't even compare them.


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## Kaiser (Aug 11, 2014)

Dellinger is physically strong himself(likely among the strongest officers alongside Lao G). Admiral Orlumbus is confronting a speedster like Lao G at the moment and he was blitzed by Hakuba. Sai wasn't knocked out by Luffy. He was ringed out. We see him perfectly fine after receiving that hit


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## Extravlad (Aug 11, 2014)

The Law wank is so strong in this thread.
Smoker did outspeed Law many times, because of his DF yea but who gives a shit? Law is winning all his fights because of his hax and would get destroyed by both Smoker and Vergo if he couldn't oneshot them.
Smoker's smoke gives him more mobility and more speed than Law.

Hakuba would murder Law with no time limit, we are talking about a demon who can appear for just a short amount of time (in the manga) so yea it must be something REALLY strong if Oda need to restrict it that much.


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## Canute87 (Aug 11, 2014)

People need to be posting these pics with smoker outspeeding law.


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## Canute87 (Aug 11, 2014)

Blake said:


> *Dellinger is physically strong himself(likely among the strongest officers alongside Lao G).* Admiral Orlumbus is confronting a speedster like Lao G at the moment and he was blitzed by Hakuba. Sai wasn't knocked out by Luffy. He was ringed out. We see him perfectly fine after receiving that hit



Didn't Zoro kick him over like a bitch?


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## Daisuke Jigen (Aug 11, 2014)

Red Hood said:


> Its like this dude doesnt know that some of those feats should be taken with a grain of salt.


This +1.


Extravlad said:


> The Law wank is so strong in this thread.
> Smoker did outspeed Law many times, because of his DF yea but who gives a shit? Law is winning all his fights because of his hax and would get destroyed by both Smoker and Vergo if he couldn't oneshot them.
> Smoker's smoke gives him more mobility and more speed than Law.
> 
> Hakuba would murder Law with no time limit, we are talking about a demon who can appear for just a short amount of time (in the manga) so yea it must be something REALLY strong if Oda need to restrict it that much.





Issho D Tea said:


> Considering that the fodder whom Luffy fodderized while eating lunch could react to Hakuba, yeah, that's a hard feat to top.





Canute87 said:


> People need to be posting these pics with smoker outspeeding law.


I think Smoker's heart flying out of his body was faster than any speed feat of Law's. Does that count?


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## Typhon (Aug 11, 2014)

barreltheif said:


> Law struggled against Smoker's and Vergo's speed. Vergo even blitzed Law and stole his heart out of his own hand.
> Hakuba is much, much faster than Vergo.



Why do you say that? Hakuba didn't do anything the other M3 couldn't do and Burgess wiped out his enemies in a flash aswell.


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## Canute87 (Aug 11, 2014)

Typhon said:


> Why do you say that? Hakuba didn't do anything the other M3 couldn't do and Burgess wiped out his enemies in a flash aswell.



burgess used power habuka used speed.


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## Kaiser (Aug 11, 2014)

> Use a shit argument to downplay Hakuba's speed while overestimating Luffy's
> Post a reliable counter argument
> Says some feats should be taken in a grain of salt

Bias?

> Laugh and neg at posts without posting any reliable counter arguments

Not only the underestimation of Hakuba's speed is a cancer in this section, but even some posters are pitful

@Canute didn't Zoro take him from behind?


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## Typhon (Aug 11, 2014)

Canute87 said:


> burgess used power habuka used speed.



More then likely. I just think Hakuba's speed is overrated because he managed to blitz a bunch of no names. Even Rebecca saw the attack coming, granted she couldn't dodge it fully. Luffy's dodging point blank explosions and saving guys from kicks inches away from someone's head while in base.


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## Canute87 (Aug 11, 2014)

Blake said:


> @Canute didn't Zoro take him from behind?



 **


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## Canute87 (Aug 11, 2014)

Typhon said:


> More then likely. I just think Hakuba's speed is overrated because he managed to blitz a bunch of no names. Even Rebecca saw the attack coming, granted she couldn't dodge it fully. Luffy's dodging point blank explosions and saving guys from kicks inches away from someone's head while in base.



Actually it is something that is worth taken into serious consideration, Habuka is ridiculously fast.
Problem is people take it way too far. And even then I can't understand the thought process.

We have tired pre-skip Zoro reacting succesfully to Kuma's instant moves yet it's completely discarded as inconsistent and yet a comment from a top tier completely over shadows everything else because it was a top tier who said it. 
Sabo a top tier made a comment it was fast, conclusion, Luffy and Zoro can't react to it i mean where is the connection here or is it just that ugly tiers mindset rearing it's ugly head.


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## NO (Aug 11, 2014)

Issho D Tea said:


> Considering that the fodder whom Luffy fodderized while eating lunch could react to Hakuba, yeah, that's a hard feat to top.


1. Rebecca has amazing CoO and still got hit on the helmet: knocked unconscious.
2. Hakuba distorted space to knock out everyone and Sabo commented on it. Sabo would not comment about some competitor's subpar speed unless it was actually worth mentioning. Every competitor, every god damn one, got knocked out by Hakuba - NO exception. This is an insane feat when everyone in the arena are strong dynamic fighters like in Block A, B, and C.
3. You continue to completely misrepresent Hakuba's character and feat despite the indisputable manga evidence in this thread.


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## Kaiser (Aug 11, 2014)

Canute87 said:


> Sabo a top tier made a comment it was fast, conclusion, Luffy and Zoro can't react to it i mean where is the connection here or is it just that ugly tiers mindset rearing it's ugly head.


The thing is his speed was too much for even a supernova like Bart to see anything, same Bart who showed no issues to follow Luffy. It's not just because of the top tier comment. The feat itself along with the hype around it was made pretty clear that Hakuba's speed was abnormal. Now i'm not sure whether or not Luffy/Zoro could react. I guess we'll have to wait to see the real advantage of restrictions of the technique if he does eventually fights Trebol


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## Dellinger (Aug 11, 2014)

When did Bart follow Luffy?


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## Typhon (Aug 11, 2014)

Canute87 said:


> Actually it is something that is worth taken into serious consideration, Habuka is ridiculously fast.
> Problem is people take it way too far. And even then I can't understand the thought process.
> 
> We have tired pre-skip Zoro reacting succesfully to Kuma's instant moves yet it's completely discarded as inconsistent and yet a comment from a top tier completely over shadows everything else because it was a top tier who said it.
> Sabo a top tier made a comment it was fast, conclusion, Luffy and Zoro can't react to it i mean where is the connection here or is it just that ugly tiers mindset rearing it's ugly head.



I agree whole heartedly, but iirc, Sabo only mentioned that it wasn't dumb luck that Beccy dodged it. I don't remember him commenting on Hakuba's speed. I thought that was Bart.


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## Firo (Aug 11, 2014)

Typhon said:


> I agree whole heartedly, but iirc, Sabo only mentioned that it wasn't dumb luck that Beccy dodged it. I don't remember him commenting on Hakuba's speed. I thought that was Bart.


Here's both panels
Bart saying he didnt see anything


Sabo's comments afterwards


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## trance (Aug 12, 2014)

Blake said:


> > Use a shit argument to downplay Hakuba's speed while overestimating Luffy's



Because he totally has speed feats that Luffy with G2 is entirely incapable of replicating, amirite? 



> > Says some feats should be taken in a grain of salt



It depends on the nature of the feats and how they're achieved. Outliers or obvious plot shield should *not* be taken seriously.



> > Laugh and neg at posts without posting any reliable counter arguments



Do you live in the 90s? That's how the internet works nowadays.


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## Canute87 (Aug 12, 2014)

Blake said:


> The thing is his speed was too much for even a supernova like Bart to see anything, same Bart who showed no issues to follow Luffy. It's not just because of the top tier comment. The feat itself along with the hype around it was made pretty clear that Hakuba's speed was abnormal. Now i'm not sure whether or not Luffy/Zoro could react. I guess we'll have to wait to see the real advantage of restrictions of the technique if he does eventually fights Trebol



This is not about Luffy having the same speed as Habuka, This is about Luffy being able to react to Habuka to the point when a fight can be had.

You don't have to move faster than someone to be be able to react to them.


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## Kaiser (Aug 12, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> Because he totally has speed feats that Luffy with G2 is entirely incapable of replicating, amirite?


Yes. In a mele, we've already seen his movements can be perceived(and reacted to) by inferior opponents. You're underestimating the outside vision/perspective of opponents here. Hakuba on the other side showed the capacity to blitz multiple of them(completely disappearing from sight of different angles) at the same time. It's on a total different level than what Luffy showed the capacity to accomplish



> It depends on the nature of the feats and how they're achieved. Outliers or obvious plot shield should *not* be taken seriously.


Doesn't matter when it's Hakuba. We should only count some of them as outliers because it's Luffy, amrite ?


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## trance (Aug 12, 2014)

Blake said:


> Yes. In a mele, we've already seen his movements can be perceived(and reacted to) by inferior opponents. You're underestimating the outside vision/perspective of opponents here. Hakuba on the other side showed the capacity to blitz multiple of them(completely disappearing from sight of different angles) at the same time. It's on a total different level than what Luffy showed the capacity to accomplish



So, Luffy, who is at his fastest with G2 and is logically at least as fast as Hakuba, can't replicate or even exceed his "blitzing" feat? Yea, ok. 



> Doesn't matter when it's Hakuba. We should only count some of them as outliers because it's Luffy, amrite ?



Don't direct your sarcasm at me. I'm just giving you a heads up.


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## Kaiser (Aug 12, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> So, Luffy, who is at his fastest with G2 and is logically at least as fast as Hakuba, can't replicate or even exceed his "blitzing" feat? Yea, ok.


Total baseless to claim he is at least as fast as Hakuba when feats says otherwise. His speed was reacted to by people like Monet or Hyouzou in a mele battle. Hakuba could blitz multiple(20) people arguably as fast if not faster than them like Admiral Orlumbus, Bartolomeo before they could even see/react, all at once and from different sight/angles/perspectives



> Don't direct your sarcasm at me. I'm just giving you a heads up.


Well you're the one who interfered in the discussion first


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## Dr. White (Aug 12, 2014)

Clears
Stops at Burgess
Stops at Hakuba or Burgess.


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## Firo (Aug 12, 2014)

Blake said:


> Total baseless to claim he is at least as fast as Hakuba when feats says otherwise. His speed was reacted to by people like Monet or Hyouzou in a mele battle. Hakuba could blitz multiple(20) people arguably as fast if not faster than them like Admiral Orlumbus, Bartolomeo before they could even see/react, all at once and from different sight/angles/perspectives


Proof by example fallacy my good man.


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## Kaiser (Aug 12, 2014)

Red Hood said:


> Proof by example fallacy my good man.


I said arguably. Admiral Orlumbus is portrayed as one of the strongest colliseum fighters alongside Sai, Ideo, Chinjao against the officers(through Cavendish's sentence as well). And we already know Bartolomeo is at the very least vice-admiral level since he one-shoted one, yet even he couldn't see his movements and pay attention in the fact he never showed troubles to see people(including Luffy's) movements before Hakuba. Infact in an entire stadium with many people(or cameras) observing fights from different angles, only Hakuba's speed was too much for all of them outside people like Sabo to notice something


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## Firo (Aug 12, 2014)

Blake said:


> I said arguably. Admiral Orlumbus is portrayed as one of the strongest colliseum fighters alongside Sai, Ideo, Chinjao against the officers(through Cavendish's sentence as well). And we already know Bartolomeo is at the very least vice-admiral level since he one-shoted one, yet even he couldn't see his movements and pay attention in the fact he never showed troubles to see people(including Luffy's) movements before Hakuba. Infact in an entire stadium with many people(or cameras) observing fights from different angles, only Hakuba's speed was too much for all of them outside people like Sabo to notice something



Except Rebecca noticed something. She moved just enough for her not to be killed. That  alone shows that his speed isnt everything you're claiming it to be.


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## Kaiser (Aug 12, 2014)

Red Hood said:


> Except Rebecca noticed something. She moved just enough for her not to be killed. That  alone shows that his speed isnt everything you're claiming it to be.


Or you're just seeing what you want to see? Once again, it was in a mele battle with 20 other fighters(Luffy couldn't even bypass 2) and she barely escaped death despite having observation haki activated, something she trained in during her entire life for evasion. I don't know what it's supposed to prove. She may not be up there in terms of strength, but her observation haki is likely top notch


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## Firo (Aug 12, 2014)

Blake said:


> Or you're just seeing what you want to see? Once again, it was in a mele battle with 20 other fighters(Luffy couldn't even bypass  2)


>Still using fallacious arguments


> and she barely escaped death despite having observation haki activated, something she trained in during her entire life for evasion.


Luffy showed her the pecking order while eating. Her training her whole life has shit to do with anything. She doesnt hold a candle to faster characters like Like Law or Luffy.


> I don't know what it's supposed to prove. She may not be up there in terms of strength, but her observation haki is likely top notch


he's still not faster than Luffy nor does your argument change anything. Luffy, Law or just about anybody on that level can react to Hakuba.


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## Dr. White (Aug 12, 2014)

Luffy and Law can dodge Hakuba, but you are stupid if you think they wouldn't be pressured by him alot, especially luffy who would have to react physically and with COO, as opposed to Law who can substitute.


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## Kaiser (Aug 12, 2014)

Red Hood said:


> >Still using fallacious arguments


You're the fallacious one. Hyouzou could react to gear second Luffy. Monet could react to gear second Luffy. Hakuba could blitz 20 on a similar level before they could react. That means his speed is nothing compared to Hakuba's



> Luffy showed her the pecking order while eating. Her training her whole life has shit to do with anything. She doesnt hold a candle to faster characters like Like Law or Luffy.


 Yes because Rebecca was totally going for the kill against Luffy. Once again ignoring Luffy's statement later on. She was not in battle mode like against Hakuba. 



> he's stillnot faster than Luffy nor does your argument change anything. Luffy, Law or just about anybody on that level would have no problem reaction to Hakuba.


Yes he is. You're just not willing to see/understand the manga or anything Luffy related properly


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## Firo (Aug 12, 2014)

Blake said:


> You're the fallacious one. Hyouzou could react to gear second Luffy. Monet could react to gear second Luffy. Hakuba could blitz 20 on a similar level before they could react. That means his speed is nothing compared to Hakuba's


> Says Im being fallacious
> Contradicts himself in the next sentence.


> Yes because Rebecca was totally going for the kill against Luffy. Once again ignoring Luffy's statement later on. She was not in battle mode like against Hakuba.


LelBlake



> Yes he is. You're just not willing to see/understand the manga or anything Luffy related properly


> Luffy and Law reacts to faster characters like Dofla
> Rebecca reacted to Hakuba
> Hakuba's faster  than Law and Luffy.


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## Ruse (Aug 12, 2014)

Hakuba's speed was impressive no doubt but suggesting that people on Luffy's level can't react to it is just absurd.


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## Kaiser (Aug 12, 2014)

Dr. White said:


> Luffy and Law can dodge Hakuba, but you are stupid if you think they wouldn't be pressured by him alot, especially luffy who would have to react physically and with COO, as opposed to Law who can substitute.


I'm not exactly sure if they could react or not(but it's likely that they could), but thanks for the reply. I was starting to feel hopeless against that idiot


Heavenly Demon said:


> Hakuba's speed was impressive no doubt but suggesting that people on Luffy's level can't react to it is just absurd.


I'm not sure about the reaction thing. All i'm saying is that he is faster than gear second Luffy(in speed, not reaction)


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## Daisuke Jigen (Aug 12, 2014)

Dr. White said:


> Luffy and Law can dodge Hakuba, but you are stupid if you think they wouldn't be pressured by him alot, especially luffy who would have to react physically and with COO, as opposed to Law who can substitute.


Mid diff at worst for Luffy. I just can't see someone who barely hit Rebecca giving Luffy that much trouble. It would be even easier for Law, all he has to do is Room, dodge, slash, and it's a done deal.


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## zoro (Aug 12, 2014)

Issho D Tea said:


> Mid diff at worst for Luffy. I just can't see someone who barely hit Rebecca giving Luffy that much trouble. It would be even easier for Law, all he has to do is Room, dodge, slash, and it's a done deal.



Just curious: Does that mean that you think Luffy can low/no diff Cavendish w/o Hakuba?


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## Dellinger (Aug 12, 2014)

Blake said:


> Total baseless to claim he is at least as fast as Hakuba when feats says otherwise. His speed was reacted to by people like Monet or Hyouzou in a mele battle. Hakuba could blitz multiple(20) people arguably as fast if not faster than them like Admiral Orlumbus, Bartolomeo before they could even see/react, all at once and from different sight/angles/perspectives
> 
> Well you're the one who interfered in the discussion first



Luffy later blitzed opponents stronger than Hyozou (Hody),and he was blitzing Caesar any time he wanted.Monet only stopped his attack because she could tell that Luffy was going to attack Caesar.The only thing she needed to do was to raise a wall behind Caesar,nothing else.

^Cavendish gets the Chinjao treatment by Luffy.


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## Orca (Aug 12, 2014)

S1: Law definitely beats everyone upto DCJ. Not sure about Hakuba. Hakuba is hyped up to be twice as strong as cavendish. That is insane hype. So I'm not sure if Law can beat him.

I'll give burgess the benefit of the doubt over Law. He is the 1st fleet commander of BB, was able to match a named technique from Sabo and his portrayal suggested that he was stronger than Diamant? at least. If law tried to use his mountain slicer against Burgess, I doubt it'll work.

S2: Uses heal during or after Hakuba fight. Loses to Burgess.

S3: Loses to Hakuba.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Aug 12, 2014)

Kinjishi no Shiki said:


> Just curious: Does that mean that you think Luffy can low/no diff Cavendish w/o Hakuba?


IMO Luffy would beat Cavendish around the same diff or a bit less, as I don't know how much stronger Hakuba makes Cavendish overall, and the only thing Cavendish is known for to begin with is speed.


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## trance (Aug 13, 2014)

Blake said:


> Total baseless to claim he is at least as fast as Hakuba when feats says otherwise. His speed was reacted to by people like Monet or Hyouzou in a mele battle. Hakuba could blitz multiple(20) people arguably as fast if not faster than them like Admiral Orlumbus, Bartolomeo before they could even see/react, all at once and from different sight/angles/perspectives



And Zoro later blitzed base Hody (who is superior to base Hyouzo) and a stronger version of Hyouzo. Is he now > G2 Luffy in speed? 

Hakuba is certainly faster than base Luffy but to say he's faster than Luffy at his maximum speed output when his feats don't show it, is meh. 



> Well you're the one who interfered in the discussion first



But still no need to get aggressive.


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## barreltheif (Aug 13, 2014)

Heavenly Demon said:


> Hakuba's speed was impressive no doubt but suggesting that people on Luffy's level can't react to it is just absurd.





What do you mean "on Luffy's level?" When it comes to speed and reaction time, Law is not on Luffy's level. Can you imagine Vergo doing this to Luffy?


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## zenieth (Aug 13, 2014)

While he's distracted? Sure can.

It's almost like Law was focused on something else.


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## Extravlad (Aug 13, 2014)

> I just can't see someone who barely hit Rebecca giving Luffy that much trouble.


I just can't see someone who barely damage Hyouzou beating Hakuba with just mid diff.


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## Ruse (Aug 13, 2014)

barreltheif said:


> What do you mean "on Luffy's level?" When it comes to speed and *reaction time,* Law is not on Luffy's level. Can you imagine Vergo doing this to Luffy?



That's funny because once Law had his heart back he had no trouble reacting to a bloodlusted Vergo.


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## November (Aug 13, 2014)

This thread is pure gold.


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## barreltheif (Aug 13, 2014)

Heavenly Demon said:


> That's funny because once Law had his heart back he had no trouble reacting to a bloodlusted Vergo.




Vergo blitzed Law and stole his heart out of his hand. I just posted the page on which this happens.  Luffy would never get blitzed in the same way. Luffy is way faster than Law and better at dealing with speed. How is this even debatable? To be clear, Law vs Hakuba is very much up in the air, but the fact that Luffy is better than Law at dealing with speed is not.


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## zenieth (Aug 13, 2014)

I know you enjoy ignoring what people say, but how about you not ignore what people say.

It'd be a truly enlightening experience.


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## Ruse (Aug 13, 2014)

barreltheif said:


> Vergo blitzed Law and stole his heart out of his hand. I just posted the page on which this happens.  Luffy would never get blitzed in the same way. Luffy is way faster than Law and better at dealing with speed. How is this even debatable? To be clear, Law vs Hakuba is very much up in the air, but the fact that Luffy is better than Law at dealing with speed is not.



Law got blitzed because he was focused on getting his heart back once he had it back Vergo could not blitz him simple. I know Luffy is faster than Law but I'm just pointing out that his reactions aren't as poor as you're trying to make out.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Aug 13, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> I just can't see someone who barely damage Hyouzou beating Hakuba with just mid diff.


And I can't see Zoro being equal to Luffy when he got beat by Rock and Scotch, so...
On a serious note, you do know that Hyozu only got out of there ok because Luffy was half assing his attack, and he was attacking three different targets at once, right? And later on, Luffy was wiping the floor with Monster Hody, someone much stronger than Base Hyozu, so there you go.


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## Nox (Aug 13, 2014)

Do you guys considered Law stronger than Burgess? Personally I think Luffy >= Law >= Burgess.


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## Extravlad (Aug 13, 2014)

> On a serious note, you do know that Hyozu only got out of there ok because Luffy was half assing his attack, and he was attacking three different targets at once, right? And later on, Luffy was wiping the floor with Monster Hody, someone much stronger than Base Hyozu, so there you go.


And Rebecca only got barely hit because Hakuba was attacking something like 100 different targets at once.


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## Lycka (Aug 13, 2014)

Habuka is overrated


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## Daisuke Jigen (Aug 13, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> And Rebecca only got barely hit because *Hakuba was attacking something like 100 different targets at once.*



Rebecca was the only one left when he attacked her, so no...


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## barreltheif (Aug 14, 2014)

Issho D Tea said:


> Rebecca was the only one left when he attacked her, so no...




What? Hakuba was indiscriminately attacking his opponents all at once. You do understand that the whole thing happened in an instant?


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## zenieth (Aug 14, 2014)

And she was the literal last opponent he took out.

She was following him putting everyone down until he came for her specifically, where she locked on and moved to dodge.

Aint hard to understand.


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## barreltheif (Aug 14, 2014)

zenieth said:


> And she was the literal last opponent he took out.
> 
> She was following him putting everyone down until he came for her specifically, where she locked on and moved to dodge.
> 
> Aint hard to understand.




Right, so then you agree with Extravlad and me?


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## zenieth (Aug 14, 2014)

No, cause that would imply that she somehow predicted where he was going to strike her from before hand and got out of that path ahead of time.

Those Panels show that she moved after he headed in her direction.


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## barreltheif (Aug 14, 2014)

No, it doesn't imply that. If Hakuba had had only a single opponent, he would've paid attention to whether he had damaged her. He was just indiscriminately attacking his opponents.


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## zenieth (Aug 14, 2014)

That point doesn't refute the argument of her dodging his attack.

That only notes that he didn't follow through.

And why would he? He made an attack specifically aimed at the middle of her head and it seemingly connected. Most folks would consider that a "Dead as fuck" blow.


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## barreltheif (Aug 14, 2014)

zenieth said:


> That point doesn't refute the argument of her dodging his attack.
> That only notes that he didn't follow through.




Right, which is the point: if Hakuba hadn't had dozens of opponents, Rebecca wouldn't just have barely gotten hit. Hakuba would've actually looked at her and made sure his sword made contact with her face.




> And why would he? He made an attack specifically aimed at the middle of her head and it seemingly connected. Most folks would consider that a "Dead as fuck" blow.




It only seemingly connected because Hakuba was looking in the other direction.


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## zenieth (Aug 14, 2014)

The other direction?

Hakuba is literally right behind Her.

His face pointed in her direction.

It's not like his head was turned 90 degrees to the right or left.


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## maupp (Aug 14, 2014)

Law clears 1 and 2. Third one stops at Jesus. And Hakuba isn't beating Law, Room is too haxx for Hakuba. His speed is being overstated and overrated by some on here. While his speed might be too hax and hard for folks on the colloseum to handle, people on Law level won't fail to his speed, especially when low/mid level fighters like Rebecca can actually react to hit and avoid fatal blows


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