# Wolverine VS Freddy Krueger



## Vivi Ornitier (Dec 25, 2013)

Our take on it
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FielXQXoNbU[/YOUTUBE]


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## MAPSK (Dec 25, 2013)

Freddy has a lot of hax inside the dream world, but I don't think he'd actually be able to put Wolverine down permanently. Incapacitate him? Ehhhhhhh.... maybe.


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## Archangel010 (Dec 25, 2013)

MAPSK said:


> Freddy has a lot of hax inside the dream world, but I don't think he'd actually be able to put Wolverine down permanently. Incapacitate him? Ehhhhhhh.... maybe.



I'm not sure, Wolverine is far stronger and more durable than most humans, and according to the Battledome rules Freddy would have no knowledge of this, so what Freddy would normally use to incap someone wouldn't be apply here. That being said, Freddy has to be drawn out of the Dream world, in order to be killed, and I'm not sure is Logan could figure that out.

However, I would still give this to Wolverine more times than not, he is a smart fighter and eventually would wake up while holding Freddy.


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## hammer (Dec 25, 2013)

didn't wolverine bust out of hell?


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## Linkofone (Dec 25, 2013)

With help as I recall.


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 25, 2013)

The fuck is Freddy is going to do with a healing factor like Logan. Wolverine has seen and experience horrors that would make Freddy shit his pants. 

Wolverine looks at Freddy and says "that's all you got bub?"


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## familyparka (Dec 25, 2013)

I'm pretty sure none of them have any way to permanently put the other down for good. That being said, I'm leaning for Freddy, just because inside the Nightmare he has far more resourses to at least incapacitate Logan.


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## Linkofone (Dec 25, 2013)

Would Healing Factor work in Dream World though?


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## familyparka (Dec 25, 2013)

Linkofone said:


> Would Healing Factor work in Dream World though?



Shouldn't we assume it would? Now that you mention it though wouldn't Freddy be able to deactivate it at will?


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## Linkofone (Dec 25, 2013)

That's a good question ... I don't think I can answer it ... he technically controls that dimension or world.


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## Mexikorn (Dec 25, 2013)

familyparka said:


> Shouldn't we assume it would? Now that you mention it though wouldn't Freddy be able to deactivate it at will?



I think not, he wouldn't even know about it in the start. And it's not like he would just kill Wolfboy because 1. he would "tear him up" before he can claw him (or at least defend himself until he can figure out what to do) and 2.... well i forgot 2, if i remember ill post it later. Anyways I tend to say Wolverine wins, even though I still lack arguments why.


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 25, 2013)

Or he did what he did before and stab himself in the brain.


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## familyparka (Dec 25, 2013)

Mexikorn said:


> I think not, he wouldn't even know about it in the start. And it's not like he would just kill Wolfboy because 1. he would "tear him up" before he can claw him (or at least defend himself until he can figure out what to do) and 2.... well i forgot 2, if i remember ill post it later. Anyways I tend to say Wolverine wins, even though I still lack arguments why.



Actually he knows it in the start. Freddy gets access to all of Logan's memories once he gets in the Dream World.
Another aspect which we have forgotten is Freddy's absolute reality warping inside the Dream World. I'm pretty sure transmutation would put out Logan for good.

Freddy's Profile Here for more info.


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 25, 2013)

You do realize that if he gets pulls out of the Real world consistently then he doesn't have absolute power right? Also reality warping requires reality which the dream world doesn't have so he is a manipulator. If that was the case those teen who had lucid dreams are reality warpers as well. Learn the difference. Freddy is a D list villain that fights teens and other d list villains.

Like I said before Wolverine has face worst things (nuke to the face and planetary TP) and not one shit Freddy can do.


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## familyparka (Dec 25, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> You do realize that if he gets pulls out of the Real world consistently then he doesn't have absolute power right? Also reality warping requires reality which the dream world doesn't have so he is a manipulator. If that was the case those teen who had lucid dreams are reality warpers as well. Learn the difference. Freddy is a D list villain that fights teens and other d list villains.
> 
> Like I said before Wolverine has face worst things (nuke to the face and planetary TP) and not one shit Freddy can do.



I think you are confused about many things, English being one of them


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 25, 2013)

You posted the wiki profile and think you have a sound argument  .


You lost the moment you use that no limit fallacy argument for Freddy.


Get back to me when Freddy beat someone other than a horny scared teenager


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## Mr. Black Leg (Dec 25, 2013)

Really ? Wolverine would take over control Dream World and make it Nightmare World for Krueger . The guy has been in hell for Satan's sake, I don't even remember but I bet Logan has already fought with someone who is a better soulfucker/telepat then Krueger . For god's sake it's Logan we're talking about here bro, and OP please state if this battle starts in the Real World or the Dream World cause IIRC Krueger needs someone sleeping to get to the Dream World or something if he's out of it and he needs someone sleeping to actually use his power, cause if he's out of the Dream World I ensure you that he's not putting Logan down to sleep by any means(Punched by WWH multiple times before going down, but this might be Plot Armor so I'll check something less inconsistent right away) and not to even talk about his healing factor/stamina which enables him to stay up late so he'll not end up sleeping, I'm sure of it . Oh and assuming they're in Dream World and assuming Krueger has what it needs to control it, what he can do in the Dream World to Logan so he can't go back ? I'm sure he won't erase him from existence .

Edit: Look at the "SECTION 8 - WOLVERINE VS. TELEPATHS and MIND CONTROL" in this :

Here


I'll make a brief quote from the guy making the thread: " Even for a thousands years old demon who has come back from death and the pits of hell, the horrors in Wolverine's mind are so horrible that Ogun can't sustain his demonic hold over Logan."

Now the quote from the demon: " How can you stand it ? The Horrors you've endured . It's ... It's ... Too much ... I can't remain ... " 

Well I have no info about that demon what so ever so I'll not brag about the demon itself but Logan really have been to hell and back, seriously for what it seems for me Freddy actually have nightmares with Logan's life .


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 25, 2013)

Freddy can't do shit because Logan will laugh and just recover .


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## Azzuri (Dec 25, 2013)

What is he going to do to Wolverine? I'm not even sure if he can beat Wolverine in the dream world.

Hell, even without the healing factor, Wolverine still eats that ass up, imo.


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## BashFace (Dec 25, 2013)

Wolverine real world. Freddy Kreuger dream world. 
I think Wolverine could be decapitated in the dream world.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Dec 25, 2013)

I think it would turn out to be Nightmare World for Fredddy .


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 25, 2013)

Freddy can't deal with no A list comic hero.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Dec 25, 2013)

A list ? Where ? In story or power ? Because if it's in power Wolverine would be Z list .


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 25, 2013)

In Story for Wolvie case. In either power and story Freddy can't do shit either way. Usually A list heroes have feats of high mental prowess.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Dec 25, 2013)

See my first post in the first page that I edited .


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## randomsurfer (Dec 25, 2013)

It shouldn't matter whether Freddy can deactivate Wolverine's healing factor in the dream world because he can only damage people by transferring the damage to their real body in the real world. Lets say he pierces Wolverines heart in the dream world, his physical heart gets pierced and then his heart automatically heals itself through his healing factor because his body is still in the real world.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Dec 26, 2013)

Wolverine would rape Krueger with his memories of WW2, let alone the things he saw in Hell . And remember Krueger went to hell and stayed there, he doesn't actually gets out because the movie where he's out it's actually another whole story, it would like say that Batman Forever feats are going to be used in Batman Dark Knight Rises .


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## TehChron (Dec 26, 2013)

Are you people fucking serious

Wolverine can't kill Freddy. Freddy would dominate Wolverine utterly in the Dreamworld, but whether or not that'd be enough to take him down is iffy at best. Transmutation would leave Wolverine incapacitated for sure, but he wouldnt be able to keep him down due to Logan's healing factor in reality.

Freddy would, with PIS off and fully aware of just how fucking dangerous Wolverine is, go straight for the most efficient method of disposing a legitimate threat.

Freddy gets taken down by random teenagers he winds up underestimating and getting taken advantage of. He wouldnt waste any time against Logan. And psychic shielding is ineffectual against reality warping.


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 26, 2013)

I love how TehChron end his argument with ....

Freddy gets taken out by Teenagers but that don't count .


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 26, 2013)

PIS only exist if there is any inconsistency and since that's been the case for Freddy in all his movies it's not PIS.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Dec 26, 2013)

TehChron said:


> Are you people fucking serious
> 
> Wolverine can't kill Freddy. Freddy would dominate Wolverine utterly in the Dreamworld, but whether or not that'd be enough to take him down is iffy at best. Transmutation would leave Wolverine incapacitated for sure, but he wouldnt be able to keep him down due to Logan's healing factor in reality.
> 
> Freddy would, with PIS off and fully aware of just how fucking dangerous Wolverine is, go straight for the most efficient method of disposing a legitimate threat.



I am, truly, very curious about what is that way of disposing a legitimate threat and how he would do it with Logan . Cause Freddy Krueger transmutation really showed to be high and do that ... Thing ... You know ... With that random teenage girl with one hell of breasts ... And would obviously transmutate Adamantium(Cause in case you don't remember you have to have one way to take out Adamantium skeleton from Logan cause he's been burned to his bones and he got up from Adamantium and nothing more) . Also, Krueger's powers does need some kinda of psych control to have someone in there, so psych powers plays one big role in the way his powers work(There's that thing about " Not believing ", that thing about " Not being scared ", that thing about "This is my dream, get out " that is pretty damn inconsistent) .


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## Poxbox (Dec 26, 2013)

It's CIS as TehChron already said (underestimated blabla).
Wolverine can't do shit to Freddy in the Dream World, but Freddy can't do anything lasting to Wolverine. It's a stalemate unless Freddy is stupid enough to let himself be pulled through to the real world even while bloodlusted.


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## Poxbox (Dec 26, 2013)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> (There's that thing about " Not believing ", that thing about " Not being scared ", that thing about "This is my dream, get out " that is pretty damn inconsistent) .


All of those are instances of Freddy playing with his prey. None of those methods actually worked.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Dec 26, 2013)

^ It worked in the 3th movie(I think) that the hot girl escaped but he wasn't really dead so he went back and killed her mom .

And how come the battle with Krueger is automatically in Dream World ?


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 26, 2013)

Show me where Freddy shown some intellect above a cowardly p*d*p**** and then you can call it CIS.


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## Linkofone (Dec 26, 2013)

Actually it was never stated where the battle takes place.


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 26, 2013)

Freddy breaks the will of his victims then assume control. Anyone who shown semi lucid dreaming, little fear and will power have resisted Freddy .


D list Villian


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## Mr. Black Leg (Dec 26, 2013)

^ But I think it's safe to assume it's not taking place in the dimensition where Freddy has to take his victim, right ? Cause if so that would be like Ichiryuu starting the battle and Minority World is already taking place, or Wally/Barry fights were already in the speed force .


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## Archangel010 (Dec 26, 2013)

I hear a lot of talk that Freddy could deactivate Logan's healing factor, but we have no evidence to support this, in fact if he could why did he have the trouble deal with Jason? It wasn't until Freddy got a hint at Jason's Fear that he took control. This proves two things, 1. Freddy doesn't get all the knowledge of a persons fear as the victim enters the Dream World and 2. His power does have limits even inside the Dream World. Wolverine has no real fears to speak of, and his impressive mental fortitude would great him all the resistance he would need to keep Freddy out of his mind. Plus what can Freddy show him that Wolverine has seen already?? Eventually Logan will wake up, and if he has a hold of Freddy then he comes out into the Real world, if not, then Doesn't Wolverine win by BFR?


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## Linkofone (Dec 26, 2013)

Archangel010 said:


> I hear a lot of talk that Freddy could deactivate Logan's healing factor, but we have no evidence to support this, in fact if he could why did he have the trouble deal with Jason? It wasn't until Freddy got a hint at Jason's Fear that he took control. This proves two things, 1. Freddy doesn't get all the knowledge of a persons fear as the victim enters the Dream World and 2. His power does have limits even inside the Dream World. Wolverine has no real fears to speak of, and his impressive mental fortitude would great him all the resistance he would need to keep Freddy out of his mind. Plus what can Freddy show him that Wolverine has seen already?? Eventually Logan will wake up, and if he has a hold of Freddy then he comes out into the Real world, if not, then Doesn't Wolverine win by BFR?



I don't think anyone actually said that ... I was asking a question of whether he could or not ...


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## Archangel010 (Dec 26, 2013)

Linkofone said:


> I don't think anyone actually said that ... I was asking a question of whether he could or not ...



My mistake then, but at least I hope my example answers your question. Bottom line Freddy has not shown the power needed to take down someone with Wolverines level of Healing, battle knowledge, experience, not to mention animal senses and nigh-indestructible bones.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Dec 26, 2013)

I still think Wolverine's memories sodomizes Krueger's brain, but good post/point Archangel010 .

Edit: "nigh-indestructible bones" for someone like Krueger it is indestructible .


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## TehChron (Dec 26, 2013)

Freddy can make it so that those advantages dont exist in the Dream World

But thats all he can do. Logan can't kill him, no matter how much good shit danger dong wants to talk.


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## Archangel010 (Dec 26, 2013)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> I still think Wolverine's memories sodomizes Krueger's brain, but good post/point Archangel010 .
> 
> Edit: "nigh-indestructible bones" for someone like Krueger it is indestructible .



Thanks, and I agree, Logan's mental resilience is more than any other person Freddy has encountered. I said nigh-Indestructible to be more accurate to the Marvel Cannon  But again thanks.



TehChron said:


> Freddy can make it so that those advantages dont exist in the Dream World
> 
> But thats all he can do. Logan can't kill him, no matter how much good shit danger dong wants to talk.



Ummm?? Did you miss my post about the whole 'not being able to take away powers thing?" If he could take away powers then he would have killed Jason in the Dream World. Also Freddy wouldn't know about the majority of them, namely the Metal bones and the animal senses.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Dec 26, 2013)

Wolverine's badass cigar make Krueger go to hell afraid of it's badassness . Seriously though, let's make some things clear . First: Freddy is not winning this . Second: Krueger has no consistent feats to speak of how he will control Wolverine in the Dream World, as people already used the "it's my dream, my rules", " I have no fear about you "(I remember the my dream my rules three times at the same movie and had more in the others that I remember vaguely, and the  I have no fear I remember once) and survived/escaped the Dream World, and that's all Logan needs, once he's out I'd say that is not a good idea to tango with a possible MHS character when you're superhuman faster that has claws, also yes, Logan will think of that, he's a experienced man and for the people who Krueger fought and for Krueger himself he's like Batman .


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## TehChron (Dec 26, 2013)

Archangel010 said:


> Thanks, and I agree, Logan's mental resilience is more than any other person Freddy has encountered. I said nigh-Indestructible to be more accurate to the Marvel Cannon  But again thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> Ummm?? Did you miss my post about the whole 'not being able to take away powers thing?" If he could take away powers then he would have killed Jason in the Dream World. Also Freddy wouldn't know about the majority of them, namely the Metal bones and the animal senses.



Freddy has feats of taking away peoples powers in the Dreamworld

While theyre in the DreamWorld.

He cant affect their physical bodies if they possess their abilities naturally, but they become harmless within his realm of power. Wolverines healing factor enables him to make it a stalemate. Nothing more. 

Not my fault you dont know the characters feats.


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## Linkofone (Dec 26, 2013)

Really Chron? He could possess their abilities?


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## Mr. Black Leg (Dec 26, 2013)

Freddy's Profile Here 

Here, take it . Do you see after the hard beating throw Jason made ? Do you think a human would be able to do ? Yeah, you got my point hopefully .


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## TehChron (Dec 26, 2013)

Linkofone said:


> Really Chron? He could possess their abilities?



Dunno about possessing their abilities, but he's been shown to strip others of abilities within the Dreamworld.

its what he did to those dreamwalker guys that tried to face him. Specifically the one that tried fighting Freddy with magic.

That ended well.



> Here, take it . Do you see after the hard beating throw Jason made ? Do you think a human would be able to do ? Yeah, you got my point hopefully .



We don't accept low showings in a Versus debate in the OBD.


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## Archangel010 (Dec 26, 2013)

TehChron said:


> Freddy has feats of taking away peoples powers in the Dreamworld
> 
> While theyre in the DreamWorld.
> 
> ...



It's your job, since you're making the claim to prove the Character can do what you say he can do. I've seen most of the Freddy movies, and not once have I seen him take away powers, again using my Jason Example, why didn't he take way his strength, endurance, and Healing factor? I don't think that Wolverine can kill Freddy in the Dream world but neither can Freddy kill him, and eventually Wolverine will wake up and win because either 1. he brings Freddy out with him, or 2. BFR


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## Mr. Black Leg (Dec 26, 2013)

TehChron said:


> Dunno about possessing their abilities, but he's been shown to strip others of abilities within the Dreamworld.
> 
> its what he did to those dreamwalker guys that tried to face him. Specifically the one that tried fighting Freddy with magic.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I was wrong . You didn't get my point . My point was that he was still superhuman, cause you said he was going to remove his powers in the dreams .


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## Vivi Ornitier (Dec 26, 2013)

Did any of you even watch the video in the op?
Anyways, Freddy Krueger is only nigh omnipotent in the dream world when he has the Dream Demons helping him. Not only are they arguably outside help, but he loses them in the 6th movie anyways, hence why Jason was giving him so much trouble.
Freddy would definitely be unable to delve into Wolverine's convoluted mind, ntm Logan has mental barriers to protect from telepathy.
If we are using a  bloodlusted completely out of character Freddy Krueger with outside powers helping him, then yes he would win using reality warping.
But if we are going by current in character incarnations [which we were in the video] then Wolvie would probably take Freddy out of the dream world more often than otherwise.
Edit: Since Freddy's power relies on the fear of others without the Dream Demons granting him power, he would not be able to do anything permenant to Wolverine since Wolvie is pretty darned fearless. At best for Freddy it would be a stalemate.


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 26, 2013)

Freddy was never nigh omnipotent ever so let's stop that nonsense right now.


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 26, 2013)

And learn what the hell is nigh omnipotent.


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## Archangel010 (Dec 26, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> Freddy was never nigh omnipotent ever so let's stop that nonsense right now.



I agree with the above statement, Dream World or not, Freddy's Power was never that high. The fact stands that Logan will still wake up at some point since neither of them can kill each other in the Dream World, and that either means Wolverine wins,  due to Freddy not being able to Hurt him, or Wolverine Drags him out with him and proceed to slice him to bits. Wolverines fighting style is very close Quarters and hell shouldn't him stabbing Freddy count as holding on to him, thus dragging him out into the Real world.


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## Vivi Ornitier (Dec 26, 2013)

We do not even actually consider Freddy nigh omnipotent in the dream world even with the Dream Demons. We were just throwing people debating for Freddy a bone.


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## Punchsplosion (Dec 26, 2013)

Stalemate most of the time as Freddy can't really straight up put Wolverine down in any specific way (healing factor plus adamantium bones) unless he can find out what Wolverine is afraid of.  The only reason he stops Jason (shuts down his abilities) in FvJ is because he figures out what Jason fears.  After that, Jason is little more than a boy with no powers in Dream World.

I would put Wolverine pulling Freddy into the Real World having the same chances as Freddy finding out what Logan is afraid of.

5/10 for both sides.


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## MAPSK (Dec 26, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> And learn what the hell is nigh omnipotent.



Omnipotent isn't actually a thing anyway, so yeah.


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## Archangel010 (Dec 26, 2013)

Punchsplosion said:


> Stalemate most of the time as Freddy can't really straight up put Wolverine down in any specific way (healing factor plus adamantium bones) unless he can find out what Wolverine is afraid of.  The only reason he stops Jason (shuts down his abilities) in FvJ is because he figures out what Jason fears.  After that, Jason is little more than a boy with no powers in Dream World.
> 
> I would put Wolverine pulling Freddy into the Real World having the same chances as Freddy finding out what Logan is afraid of.
> 
> 5/10 for both sides.



After Thinking about it, I'd Be willing to Concede to your argument Punchsplosion, Well done.


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## Punchsplosion (Dec 26, 2013)

Archangel010 said:


> After Thinking about it, I'd Be willing to Concede to your argument Punchsplosion, Well done.



Thanks good sir.


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## Archangel010 (Dec 26, 2013)

Punchsplosion said:


> Thanks good sir.



No problem, I'm willing to Admit when I'm beaten, and You are most welcome, Sir.


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## Tranquil Fury (Dec 26, 2013)

Freddy would troll Wolverine till the ends of time.


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## MAPSK (Dec 26, 2013)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Freddy would troll Wolverine till the ends of time.



[YOUTUBE]gvdf5n-zI14[/YOUTUBE]


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## Mr. Black Leg (Dec 26, 2013)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Freddy would troll Wolverine till the ends of time.



I made my point why Logan would resist, burden of proof is on you to prove that dealing with brains of Jason and horny drunk teenage girls is enough to deal with Logan's brain .


*Spoiler*: __ 



Really ? Wolverine would take over control Dream World and make it Nightmare World for Krueger . The guy has been in hell for Satan's sake, I don't even remember but I bet Logan has already fought with someone who is a better soulfucker/telepat then Krueger . For god's sake it's Logan we're talking about here bro, and OP please state if this battle starts in the Real World or the Dream World cause IIRC Krueger needs someone sleeping to get to the Dream World or something if he's out of it and he needs someone sleeping to actually use his power, cause if he's out of the Dream World I ensure you that he's not putting Logan down to sleep by any means(Punched by WWH multiple times before going down, but this might be Plot Armor so I'll check something less inconsistent right away) and not to even talk about his healing factor/stamina which enables him to stay up late so he'll not end up sleeping, I'm sure of it . Oh and assuming they're in Dream World and assuming Krueger has what it needs to control it, what he can do in the Dream World to Logan so he can't go back ? I'm sure he won't erase him from existence .

Edit: Look at the "SECTION 8 - WOLVERINE VS. TELEPATHS and MIND CONTROL" in this :

Here


I'll make a brief quote from the guy making the thread: " Even for a thousands years old demon who has come back from death and the pits of hell, the horrors in Wolverine's mind are so horrible that Ogun can't sustain his demonic hold over Logan."

Now the quote from the demon: " How can you stand it ? The Horrors you've endured . It's ... It's ... Too much ... I can't remain ... " 

Well I have no info about that demon what so ever so I'll not brag about the demon itself but Logan really have been to hell and back, seriously for what it seems for me Freddy actually have nightmares with Logan's life .


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 26, 2013)

Freddy canonically is afraid of fire when used against him. So afraid he shit his pants .


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## Tranquil Fury (Dec 26, 2013)

You made your point that Logan a character filled with inner turmoil would resist having all his nightmares, issues and worst demons brought out despite that being a recurring theme in his books?

You made a point that Logan can resist being immobilised by something beyond his strength level(Which is'nt hard to do as even a house on top of him would)?You made your point Logan could resist being transported to the bottom of the sea with heavy weights to keep him immobilised?

Wolverine has survived multiple hits by many characters of varying range and can be KO'd by them.  He's been KO'd consistently or almost as many times by less than characters like Hulk. No WWH is not plot armor since he has adamantium skeleton to prevent broken bones and regeneration of his cells. 

You also assume KOing is the only way to win for a character who can control an entire dimension. There are plenty of ways to beat Logan in a fight without killing or KO. Killing is'nt going to happen, KO was never argued but he's been KO'd many many many times by far less than Hulk consistently enough, Superior Spiderman is just a recent example of him being taken down. No characters like Thor, Hulk etc can't kill Logan with their punches, hence why at no point did I claim Freddy could kill Logan or even come close.

Yes we all know respect threads are cool, none of those change how often Logan has been mindrapped throughout history, he has gone on record to note that he's been mind wiped so many times even he does'nt remember much of his history. This is'nt even mindrape in the sense of forcing will, it's a simple matter of making him re experience his own memories. Considering he's put into situations where he must confront his inner demons lots of times, this is'nt even a wrong tactic. He'll be left broken for a decent while before pulling himself together from his re awakwned trauma. 

I'm not sure I should even have to tell you why a respect thread is not 100% reliable, you're linking me to a section which includes feats like resisting Xavier and Phoenix Jean. Not saying Logan has'nt decent willpower feats or telepathy resisting but the fact you take a respect thread as face value on a character's capabilities over the actual comic is clearly a flawed approach.

You have'nt proven why Logan could counter something like being sent to the bottom of the ocean with a ship on top of him where he's immobilised which counts as a win.


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## Tranquil Fury (Dec 26, 2013)

Now despite my somewhat brusque response about respect threads (they are good to get scans from but knowing the context, canonicity, consistency etc are important likewise the actual character). 

Wolverine has shown good resistance but he's also shown an almost equal affinity towards being brainwashed or mindwiped due to his issues, even evil organisations can brainwash him. It's the pros and cons of a character whose been around since 30-40+ years with a billion appearances due to insane popularity. Now Freddy is not going to bend Logan's will, this I never claimed or argued about. Freddy can simply make Logan experience his nightmares or old memories, this would not require effort, Logan has tons of horrible moments locked up in memory he's trying to suppress, some hundreds of years old. His relationship with his son Daken is one very good way to hurt him psychologically.

Likewise a scenario of immobilising Logan with something(anything the size of a house should do enough to immobilise him) or leaving him off to starve till he faints or trapping him in a maze that keeps going on forever etc are all viable ways to win.  

Freddy is hardly omnipotent(the word itself is fallacious) or even close. He's inferior to Logan in stats and cannot kill, arguably even KO Logan or cannot bend Logan to his will. 

But he can do all other things to screw with Logan if he's creative enough and he is. Logan going Heroic BSOD should be temporary but long enough to count as a win. Or would Logan just wandering a desert with nothing for days or months then collapsing be better?Or Logan being under a ship immoblised?etc


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 26, 2013)

Wolverine  has been brainwash by guys far superior to Freddy could ever hope to be. So stating that is really moot. Agains Jason had turmoil and Freddy didn't know anything about and he was already inside Jason head for a couple of days. This proves Freddy can't fully tap into memories . It also proves he has to force out your fears. Jason had firm control over his dream ( Jason is mindless). Freddy is not a Dream Lord he is merely a manipulator so he is also subjected to same shit he can dish out as well.


Freddy is an idiot so the maze idea is assuming he has the brain power to think of that.


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## Tranquil Fury (Dec 26, 2013)

He's been mentally influenced by almost any telepath or evil organisaton's science. But no, I'm not claiming Freddy can brainwash or mindwipe type scenarios. Nor am I going to ignore that Logan has a history of resisting too. Just pointed out that if someone is going to go with the extreme version of Logan aka respect thread Logan then going with all the incidents he's been brainwashed that those threads generally leave it is fair. 

The only "Telepathy" Freddy can do is make people experience their worst fears and nightmares. Distort dreams in sadistic ways. His powers are dream related, dreamworld is some weird dimension that he can enter through as long as a being dreams. This is not something that can be prevented by sleeping with no precaution.



> Agains Jason had turmoil and Freddy didn't know anything about and he was already inside Jason head for a couple of days. This proves Freddy can't fully tap into memories



Is Freddy vs Jason canon?Is this consistent with Freddy?If yes then this is fair enough. Have'nt seen those movies in a while. If he can't do that, then Logan gets no trauma. That option goes off the table.



> Freddy is an idiot so the maze idea is assuming he has the brain power to think of that



Atleast one movie had him babyjacking to increase his grip on a victim and the mortal world which almost succeeded, far from an idiot. He's killed his fair of victims in gruesome ways. 

But most monsters in teen horror flicks suffer from the idiot ball so the heroes may live. This would be Freddy without that PIS.


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 26, 2013)

Yep Jason vs Freddy is canon. In Jason goes to hell it was established from then at the end. 
Freddy use Jason memories of his mom to awaken him but when they fought was clueless of his fear of drowning. 

You don't have to be smart to be a psychopath killer. You should know this just look at some of Bats C list rogues. Only way I would consider it PIS if he had demonstrate otherwise but he hasn't. He just an average psychopathic pedo killer.


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## Tranquil Fury (Dec 26, 2013)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Did you even read the respect thread ? How is it relevant ? Because maybe Logan is not on Xavier nor Hulk's willpower level but he's still above Krueger, it's not by slighty margin that Xavier's/Hulk's minds > Krueger . It has a plenty of room that Logan *is* included .
> 
> You don't have to be at Xavier level to escape Krueger, some random teens were able to do it so for some time, imagine Logan, who has resisted Psylocke's power a lot of times, Psylocke >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Krueger really bad, and Logan has resisted Psylocke, really stop denying the fact that Logan is superior here because he is for a fact, he has fought in mental challenge leagues and leagues above Krueger, Krueger would be a joke for Logan, and just to make sure read the "SECTION 8 - WOLVERINE VS. TELEPATHS and MIND CONTROL: "
> 
> ...




Why are you going on about the respect thread?Have you read any actual comics with Wolverine. You seem to be arguing based on a respect thread. Did I mention anything about Freddy being able to control Logan or influence his actions?

Dreamworld is a separate dimension, once Logan sleeps, he's part of it. There is no forceful entry into the mind here in the way the above instances in the respect thread are. Is comparing scenarios so hard?Now if you had atleast posted some instance involving Logan resisting someone in a dream world/inner world/astral plane type scenario you'd have a point. I also cannot be arsed to go through 30+ scans involving feats that may or may not be canon or consistent(some of those like Phoenix Jean and Xavier are clearly them jobbing but some of those others I don't know enough to tell about).

Stop hiding behind a respect thread like some clutch because you can't debate or know enough about a character. You have no idea on how canon those scans are, if it's consistent for not just Logan but those other characters. 

Only post scans from respect threads you know enough on circumstances and consistency from both sides of the fight to use(both characters or more in the scans). 

This is'nt akin to resisting someone like Xavier, it's akin to entering Mephisto's realm where he has control over it and somehow negating his control over time, space, matter etc in that realm. Extreme examples but your OP is filled with them like claiming people will make Freddy vs Mxy so it's fair.

It's not mind control or mind wiping. Nevermind that even amongst those there are types e.g being able to see through illusions would not allowing one to resist their will bend or the reverse case. So resisting one type won't necessary grant another.  Freddy cannot bend Logan's will or alter his memories or make him forget or create illusions. His powers don't work that way.

Show me a similar instance as Logan being in a dream world or some other realm where the enemy has control and he negates/resists atleast if you're going to keep insisting on randomly posting scans from a respect thread and hope enough are canon, consistent and stick


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## willyvereb (Dec 26, 2013)

Well, I'm no expert on horror classics so my knowledge on Freddy's showings is limited.

But if he could use Jason's memories of his mother but didn't know his fear of drowning then it means he can read people's mind to an extend but it's far from absolute.
So he can get a few things about his victims but not necessarily know all their secrets and fears.


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 26, 2013)

Yeah it was until a plot device of a pipe breaking in Jason dream and water leaking is when Freddy realize Jason wouldn't venture further.

And in the very beginning of the movie Freddy disguise himself as Jason mom to convince him to wake up and go to Elm Street.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Dec 26, 2013)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Why are you going on about the respect thread?Have you read any actual comics with Wolverine. You seem to be arguing based on a respect thread. Did I mention anything about Freddy being able to control Logan or influence his actions?



Yeah I do read comics, I actually own the one with Logan escaping hell and I'm not sure if there's that scan in the respect thread because I rushed to see if I could find any Telepathy fight feat(Because I knew he had but couldn't remember any feats from it) and you didn't say Krueger could control Logan ? Are you kidding me ? Controling Dream World is controling the person by definition and when the person > Freddy the person can control the dream world, like happened in the final of the movie with the hot teenage . Freddy Krueger controling the Dream World is proof that he > the person in the mind or that the person has fear about him so YES by saying that Krueger could control Dream World in vs Logan you're saying that he can control Logan to some degree .



> Dreamworld is a separate dimension, once Logan sleeps, he's part of it. There is no forceful entry into the mind here in the way the above instances in the respect thread are. Is comparing scenarios so hard?Now if you had atleast posted some instance involving Logan resisting someone in a dream world/inner world/astral plane type scenario you'd have a point. I also cannot be arsed to go through 30+ scans involving feats that may or may not be canon or consistent(some of those like Phoenix Jean and Xavier are clearly them jobbing but some of those others I don't know enough to tell about).
> 
> 1. Stop hiding behind a respect thread like some clutch because you can't debate or know enough about a character. You have no idea on how canon those scans are, if it's consistent for not just Logan but those other characters.
> 
> Only post scans from respect threads you know enough on circumstances and consistency from both sides to use.



I never said a thing about Logan resisting Xavier, I said he could resist *some time* to Phoenix before going down and I mostly repeated the Psylocke feats, because Psylocke is > Krueger  . Logan resisting Xavier would be obvious Jobberine in action but he has feats to back up that he would break out/control Dream World and make Krueger his bitch .

Mega Vereb - The Suigetsu vs Human Torch was to show that the power doesn't always make the fight, like he said that Dream Manipulation would be above the reality warping and dimensional manipulation so I was saying that the level holds great importance in the fights as much as the counter power do .


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## Punchsplosion (Dec 26, 2013)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Yeah I do read comics, I actually own the one with Logan escaping hell and I'm not sure if there's that scan in the respect thread because I rushed to see if I could find any Telepathy fight feat(Because I knew he had but couldn't remember any feats from it) and you didn't say Krueger could control Logan ? Are you kidding me ? Controling Dream World is controling the person by definition and when the person > Freddy the person can control the dream world, like happened in the final of the movie with the hot teenage . Freddy Krueger controling the Dream World is proof that he > the person in the mind or that the person has fear about him so YES by saying that Krueger could control Dream World in vs Logan you're saying that he can control Logan to some degree .
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Except for the fact that Dream World manipulation isn't the same as telepathy.  The Dream World is a supernatural realm in the Nightmare on Elm Street canon.  Your will power means fuck all (as proven by all the mentally strong people that Krueger has casually destroyed).  Your resistance to telepathy means little as well (as Krueger is MAGICALLY causing your body to experience the same fate as your dream self).

His opponent has to have some form of supernatural (be it magical or divine) defense or offense to stand a chance.  The only people to successfully fight him in the Dream World and actually survive were people that had supernatural abilities that transferred over into that realm (Alice in Dream Master who still got wrecked until the Dream Master rhyme allowed her to call upon the souls that Krueger absorbed to turn on him).  This exact same debate was done in the Wolf (AvP) takes on a Horror Gauntlet thread in which Danger Dong and I engaged in.

Bottom line?  High end telepathic resistance feats matter little to someone who isn't attacking your mind but a supernatural embodiment of your soul/body.  And without some ridiculous physical characteristics to allow you to exist despite what Freddy can do to you in the Dream World (which Wolverine does actually have), then he instantly pastes most non-supernatural foes when bloodlusted.

The moment Freddy is able to find what you fear, he can kill you.  This is evidence in Freddy vs Jason.  Jason was his unstoppable self in the Dream World until Freddy discovered his fear.  The moment that happened, Jason lost all of his abilities (strength, regeneration, etc) and started to die.

Stalemate for these reasons:

1.)  Wolverine can do exactly dick to Freddy in Dream World as feats of telepathic resistance mean nothing there.  It's essentially reality warping/manipulation what Freddy is doing.  Unless Wolverine has specific feats resisting that ability, he can't stop it.

2.)  Freddy can't conventionally kill Wolverine in Dream World as Wolverine's natural abilities would negate most of the typical ways to die that Freddy could attempt to inflict on Logan.

3.)  In order to negate the physical advantages that Wolverine has which would be keeping him alive, Freddy would have to make Logan fear him.  Conventionally, Freddy can't do that as Wolverine has seen his fair share of bigger threats.  However, if he discerned Wolverine's fears while fighting him, then he could gain full power over Wolverine in the Dream World and turn him into a cockroach like he did to Debbie in Dream Master.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n4lVWFwFoM[/YOUTUBE]

4.)  Freddy has some ability to glean memories from his opponents.  However, Wolverine's mind is a mess and he has telepathic resistance feats (that is where they come into play).

5.)  Wolverine's only chance is to pull Freddy into the real world.  It's unlikely as Freddy is bloodlusted.


Stalemate:  As I see Freddy discovering Logan's fears about the same amount of times that the Wolverine grabs Freddy and pulls him into the real world.


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## Vivi Ornitier (Dec 26, 2013)

We did not set the characters bloodlusted, it was an in character match


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## Solrac (Dec 26, 2013)

ClassicGameGuys said:


> We did not set the characters bloodlusted, it was an in character match



But why do you set your characters in-character instead of bloodlusted? Kinda makes the results of most match outcomes, flat doesn't it?


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## Mr. Black Leg (Dec 26, 2013)

ClassicGameGuys - The standard in OBD is bloodlusted, isn't it ? 



Punchsplosion said:


> Except for the fact that Dream World manipulation isn't the same as telepathy.  The Dream World is a supernatural realm in the Nightmare on Elm Street canon.  Your will power means fuck all (as proven by all the mentally strong people that Krueger has casually destroyed).  Your resistance to telepathy means little as well (as Krueger is MAGICALLY causing your body to experience the same fate as your dream self).
> 
> His opponent has to have some form of supernatural (be it magical or divine) defense or offense to stand a chance.  The only people to successfully fight him in the Dream World and actually survive were people that had supernatural abilities that transferred over into that realm (Alice in Dream Master who still got wrecked until the Dream Master rhyme allowed her to call upon the souls that Krueger absorbed to turn on him).  This exact same debate was done in the Wolf (AvP) takes on a Horror Gauntlet thread in which Danger Dong and I engaged in.
> 
> ...



First of all, where is it stated they're fighting inside Dream World ? Krueger would need to get Logan to sleep, good luck proving that he could .



> Jason lost all of his abilities (strength, regeneration, etc) and started to die.



Jason has no regen . He has what is called immortality, and it's the immortality without regen. like Hidan . 



> as proven by all the mentally strong people that Krueger has casually destroyed



Yeah because he defeated people like Batman or GL in will power, am I right ? Not some random teenage girl . And the thing is that while they had will they could mold the dream too and that girl made Freddy be on fire . Dream World can be broken with sufficient strong will, and not even talking about will to bend inside the Dream World, I'm talking about will to get out of there, as that teenage boy was red bulling all day long and getting coffe'd all day long and when he slept he saw Krueger coming and he could just wake up(Or was the girl that happened this, I think was the girl in that bed, maybe I'm rememberin wrong but one of the two happened this) now imagine if someone who just tried to wake up could and get away from Krueger for more time(I don't exactly remember who was but it was constantly blacking out and waking up because it was trying to avoid sleep) . So yeah this proves willpower > Dream World . And Krueger fucks with the mind to fuck with the person, he scares the person so he'll have more power over that person but the thing is that when you're fighting Wolverine you might throw some nightmares over him that he hates . But fear ? Logan is fearless when it comes into battle, and a bloodlusted Logan ? I remember he having some burst of bloodlust that made him attack anything(Friends, foes, anything) so *if*, and that's a big if, he gets fear then he can enter that state . And also, what would Krueger give to Logan that he has not already finished thinking and feeling bad about it ? The guy has more then 1 century to regret things and think about it . He does not by any means fear death . I remember one special of Spiderman/Wolverine that they both went to the future/past and to save the planet from Doom(Because he had somehow taken control over Ego the living planet) they had to fire a gun that had concentrated Phoenix power and would vaporize the one who shot it, Spiderman was there and was going to fire and then Logan took out the gun from him and said something like " Even if the target is a planet, I don't trust you to shot " and shoot . He was vaporized and Spidey felt guilty and tried to get him back so he tried to use the Cosmic Cube and could get him back, but when he did he was freaking mad because he wanted to die cause he was already conformed by the fact he was never going to die and he wanted to . Conclusion ? No fears for Logan, just nightmares about remember what he went through, something he deals in daily basis everyday .


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## Vivi Ornitier (Dec 26, 2013)

Pecola said:


> But why do you set your characters in-character instead of bloodlusted? Kinda makes the results of most match outcomes, flat doesn't it?



Not really. A character's personality always plays a role in a fight, there should be more to it than analysing a bunch of stats.
Still, going by current incarnations, Freddy no longer has the Dream Demon's granting him power, so even if it was bloodlusted Freddy Krueger really can not put Wolverine down anyways. Wolvie would still likely take it more times than not


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 26, 2013)

I like some one try explain to me how Freddy get pass Adamantium. Eva use he can't.


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## Punchsplosion (Dec 26, 2013)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> ClassicGameGuys - The standard in OBD is bloodlusted, isn't it ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



1.)  Freddy exists naturally in Dream World.  Unless pulled out, Wolverine would have to go in to do battle with him.  Ergo, Wolverine some how finds a way not to sleep then it is a stalemate.  Which I have already agreed to.  He will eventually have to sleep because he has no knowledge about what he dealing with.

Putting them in the Real World at the start isn't a fucking fight anyways.  It's a sodomization as Wolverine outguns Freddy in every category physically.

2.)  Don't go by the wiki as some are outdated.  Jason regens in his movies as wounds he suffers from are healed when he comes back from the dead (or sometimes later on in the movie).

3.)  You need to take a course in English.  I can barely piece together what you are trying to say.  Will power has NEVER saved ANY of Krueger's victims.  Outside sources have intervened (chemicles - caffine, non-sleeping agents, alarms, people, spirits, souls, etc) to allow people to live.  Supernatural powers (like Alice's or the Dream Warriors powers) enable people to combat Freddy within the Dream World.  However, they all eventually get pasted after Freddy gets serious.  Ergo:  Freddy's playful attitude gets him killed.  People that pull him into the Real World (the only chance Wolverine has of killing Freddy) have prior knowledge.  See:  Nancy in NoES, Maggie in NoES: FD, Lori in FvJ, etc.  They all learned how to kill Freddy via accident or from someone telling them how to.

Wolverine isn't fearless.  He's extremely hard to shake up.  However, he fears the outcome of his relationship with Daken.  He fears those he loves dying (whatever the means).  He fears having the Adamantium ripped out of his skeleton again (described it as the worst pain he has felt in his entire life).  Also, he fears his animal side completely taking over his psyche.  So, you are completely incorrect there.  Will power might slow Freddy down for a second (only because he plays).  However, he can morph into Super Freddy and laugh in Wolverine's face as his attacks do dick all.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPOLtaosJcY[/YOUTUBE]

You fail to understand that Freddy can only be fought (successfuly) in the Dream World by someone with considerable supernatural might (Dream Master, sorcerer, angel, demon, etc).  As Logan has no supernatural offensive capabilities, he cannot kill Freddy in the Dream World.  Also, even if Wolverine knows he is asleep, Freddy has stopped people from waking up before.  He fucking caught Alice (the Dream Master herself) and Dan in a temporal loop to stop her from interfering and waking up so Freddy could kill Debbie.

Once again, even IF Wolverine wakes up (unless he can get a hold of Freddy) then it makes no difference as he hasn't killed Freddy.  So, stalemate.


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## Vivi Ornitier (Dec 27, 2013)

So, is it agreed that under all optimal circumstances Freddy wins, but going by current incarnations Wolverine wins more often than not?


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## Mr. Black Leg (Dec 27, 2013)

^ No it's agreed that even in all optimal circumstances Freddy stalemates . 



Punchsplosion said:


> 1.)  Freddy exists naturally in Dream World.  Unless pulled out, Wolverine would have to go in to do battle with him.  Ergo, Wolverine some how finds a way not to sleep then it is a stalemate.  Which I have already agreed to.  He will eventually have to sleep because he has no knowledge about what he dealing with.
> 
> Putting them in the Real World at the start isn't a fucking fight anyways.  It's a sodomization as Wolverine outguns Freddy in every category physically.





> 2.)  Don't go by the wiki as some are outdated.  Jason regens in his movies as wounds he suffers from are healed when he comes back from the dead (or sometimes later on in the movie).



I know some wiki are outdated, I talked that about my own knwoledge on Jason because I didn't remember him recovering from any injuries just shaking them off so I'd say it's more damage soak then regen .



> 3.)  You need to take a course in English.  I can barely piece together what you are trying to say.  Will power has NEVER saved ANY of Krueger's victims.  Outside sources have intervened (chemicles - caffine, non-sleeping agents, alarms, people, spirits, souls, etc) to allow people to live.  Supernatural powers (like Alice's or the Dream Warriors powers) enable people to combat Freddy within the Dream World.  However, they all eventually get pasted after Freddy gets serious.  Ergo:  Freddy's playful attitude gets him killed.  People that pull him into the Real World (the only chance Wolverine has of killing Freddy) have prior knowledge.  See:  Nancy in NoES, Maggie in NoES: FD, Lori in FvJ, etc.  They all learned how to kill Freddy via accident or from someone telling them how to.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Would Super Freddy be able to take Adamantium ? Cause even in Dream World reality somehow applies(Like iron > human skin or something like it) . And Wolverine's fears are over . He does however feel bad about Daken and all, but I wouldn't go as far as to call fear I'd say more of an anger with himself . Logan does however fear his animal side taking over but I fail to understand how that would be useful for Freddy, as the more animal he gets, the more relentless and reckless he gets in his fight for any thing and go as far as attack friends and IIRC he can bring up this kind of power by himself(Like wanting this to happen) and if Krueger made him meet any fear that he might got, wouldn't this be able to make him fight ?



> You fail to understand that Freddy can only be fought (successfuly) in the Dream World by someone with considerable supernatural might (Dream Master, sorcerer, angel, demon, etc).  As Logan has no supernatural offensive capabilities, he cannot kill Freddy in the Dream World.  Also, even if Wolverine knows he is asleep, Freddy has stopped people from waking up before.  He fucking caught Alice (the Dream Master herself) and Dan in a temporal loop to stop her from interfering and waking up so Freddy could kill Debbie.
> 
> Once again, even IF Wolverine wakes up (unless he can get a hold of Freddy) then it makes no difference as he hasn't killed Freddy.  So, stalemate.



I don't know if I'm making a NL fallacy here but I'd think that the guy who has fought in hell has some good level of spiritual bullshit and all . I mean he has the right to fight for his life if he is dead, how this is not a level of supernatural power ? And in Dream World is Feddy's stats amped enough to take on Logan inside there ? Cause from what I remember all people keeps their stats and Freddy gets a slight boost on his stats to superhuman .


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## Archangel010 (Dec 27, 2013)

ClassicGameGuys said:


> So, is it agreed that under all optimal circumstances Freddy wins, but going by current incarnations Wolverine wins more often than not?



No Stalemate at best, neither can put each other down, because wolverine can do nothing to hurt Freddy in the Dreamworld, as Freddy has never been killed while in the Dreamworld, and Freddy can do nothing to get past Wolverine's Adamantium bones or his healing Factor.

While it is true that Wolverine could pull Freddy into the real would it's just as likely that Freddy would discover Logan's Fears.... so Stalemate.


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## mcdave (Dec 27, 2013)

Archangel010 said:


> No Stalemate at best, neither can put each other down, because wolverine can do nothing to hurt Freddy in the Dreamworld, as Freddy has never been killed while in the Dreamworld, and Freddy can do nothing to get past Wolverine's Adamantium bones or his healing Factor.
> 
> While it is true that Wolverine could pull Freddy into the real would it's just as likely that Freddy would discover Logan's Fears.... so Stalemate.



Thats not a stalemate just look at which one is more likely to happen by mere chance?


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## Archangel010 (Dec 27, 2013)

mcdave said:


> Thats not a stalemate just look at which one is more likely to happen by mere chance?



We Can't there is no way to debate logically which one is more likely to happen. Wolverine is a close quarters fighter, but Freddy is a master manipulator, it could really go either way. Being that they have no knowledge of each other, Wolverine would not know that he needs to grab a hold of Freddy to get him into the real world, and Freddy doesn't know about his unbreakable bones and healing factor.


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## mcdave (Dec 27, 2013)

Archangel010 said:


> Wolverine is a close quarters fighter, but Freddy is a master manipulator, it could really go either way. Being that they have no knowledge of each other, Wolverine would not know that he needs to grab a hold of Freddy to get him into the real world, and Freddy doesn't know about his unbreakable bones and healing factor.



If they play this game for a year what is overdue to happen?

You said it yourself "Freddy can do nothing to get past Wolverine's Adamantium bones or his healing Factor."


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## Archangel010 (Dec 27, 2013)

mcdave said:


> If they play this game for a year what is overdue to happen?
> 
> You said it yourself "Freddy can do nothing to get past Wolverine's Adamantium bones or his healing Factor."



True, but there isn't anything Wolverine can do to Freddy either. Freddy has never been shown to be killed in the Dream world by something without supernatural powers. As Wolverine has no Supernatural Powers, he can hack and slash all he wants, it isn't going to do much to Freddy.


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## mcdave (Dec 27, 2013)

Archangel010 said:


> True, but there isn't anything Wolverine can do to Freddy either. Freddy has never been shown to be killed in the Dream world by something without supernatural powers. As Wolverine has no Supernatural Powers, he can hack and slash all he wants, it isn't going to do much to Freddy.



What would happen if he wakes up while slash/grabbing by chance?


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## Archangel010 (Dec 27, 2013)

mcdave said:


> What would happen if he wakes up while slash/grabbing by chance?



Too much speculation, what happens if Freddy happens to discover Wolverines fears? Plus Freddy has shown to be able to keep people from waking up on their own, as in they need outside assistance to wake up.

We can't debate chance, because anything could happen.. a Meteor could hit and blow up the earth, or Magneto could decide to kill Logan in his sleep. Both are possible, but we can't debate on their merits. Chance is an element that is nearly impossible to quantify, thus we don't use it in Debates, only Logical reasoning, Feats, and Reasonable powerscaling are accepted in The OBD.


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## mcdave (Dec 27, 2013)

Archangel010 said:


> Too much speculation, what happens if Freddy happens to discover Wolverines fears?


Nothing.



Archangel010 said:


> Plus Freddy has shown to be able to keep people from waking up on their own, as in they need outside assistance to wake up.


How long?



Archangel010 said:


> We can't debate chance, because anything could happen.. *a Meteor could hit and blow up the earth*, or Magneto could decide to kill Logan in his sleep. Both are possible, but we can't debate on their merits. Chance is an element that is nearly impossible to quantify, thus we don't use it in Debates, only Logical reasoning, Feats, and Reasonable powerscaling are accepted in The OBD.



Hyperbolic Timechamber. 

If Logan has a way to win and Krueger has none its just a matter of Time.
Both are somewhat immortal?


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## Archangel010 (Dec 27, 2013)

mcdave said:


> Nothing.


Wrong, look at what happened to Jason, once Freddy discovered his fear, all his powers were taken away, if he can do it to Jason, there is no reason why he couldn't do it to Wolverine. Also answer me this, What can Wolverine do to Freddy inside the Dream World?



> How long?


Doesn't matter, even if there is a time limit, once Wolverine wakes up, Freddy is still alive and can just mess with him again when he sleeps. Wolverine would have no way of knowing that it would continue to happen again, or that he needs to grab a hold of him to pull him into the real world.




> Hyperbolic Timechamber.
> 
> If Logan has a way to win and Krueger has none its just a matter of Time.
> Both are somewhat immortal?


I was using an Example... but if you want to play hat way, the door could get blown up trapping them both... all I'm saying is that we can't argue chance, because chance, by it's very nature, is unpredictable. Yes, both are pretty much immortal, thus it's a Stalemate. Chances are pretty much even chance of Wolverine figuring out he has to garb a hold of Freddy and then wake up while still holding him, as there is for Freddy discovering Wolverine's Fear.


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## willyvereb (Dec 27, 2013)

And what happens if Freddy discovers Wolverine's fear?
Will that kill him?
Otherwise it's pointless here.
Also to my knowledge Freddie cannot keep people trapped in his world forever.
They'll wake up like normal people do.
Of course they can't just wake up because they want to but I don't think there's anything preventing them to wake up in their natural schedule.

And when Wolverine wakes up Freddie would technically lose the match.
He failed to meet his objectives.


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## Archangel010 (Dec 27, 2013)

Mega Vereb said:


> And when Wolverine wakes up Freddie would technically lose the match.
> He failed to meet his objectives.



See I had mentioned that before, and.... no one said anything on it, so I assumed that it didn't count as a win...


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## Punchsplosion (Dec 27, 2013)

Mega Vereb said:


> And what happens if Freddy discovers Wolverine's fear?
> Will that kill him?
> Otherwise it's pointless here.
> Also to my knowledge Freddie cannot keep people trapped in his world forever.
> ...



I would say that Wolverine dies if Freddy discovers his fears.

1.)  Jason has never been killed by just water in any of the movies.  (He was chained to the bottom of Crystal Lake by the TK chick using the spirit of her dad, had his neck snapped by a boat and anchored to the bottom of the lake, and has walked on the ocean floor all the way to New York to kill teenagers.)

2.)  Jason was his nearly unstoppable self in the Dream World (Freddy, "Why won't you die?!") until Freddy PIS'ed his way into discovering Jason's only fear.

3.)  The moment he discovered Jason's fear, he began to kill his opponent with it despite Jason's immortality/durability/regen and not showing any signs of being put down by drowning before that incident.

Seems like it nullifies whatever is keeping you alive when Freddy gets you scared.

Wolverine could definitely wake up via his natural sleep schedule.

However, how does that not count as a stalemate as Wolverine's objective is to also kill Freddy?  Freddy is still alive and kicking in Dream World as Wolverine would be in the Real World.  Please, explain MV.


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## Punchsplosion (Dec 27, 2013)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> ^ No it's agreed that even in all optimal circumstances Freddy stalemates .
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No he has actively regenerated from injuries.  In Freddy vs Jason, Mr. Krueger cut off all of Jason's fingers on one hand, impales him with multiple steel re-bar, smashes his head/body with a giant sand container, cuts the shit out of Jason with his own machete, gouges out his eyes, and Jason gets blown up/set on fire.  After coming back out of the Crystal Lake, he completely regenerated back to the state he began the flick in.

Link removed
Skip to 3:00.

Now for some quick rebuttals:

1.)  He fears what has happened with Daken.  I can't remember who he told in the comics or if it was an internal monologue, but it has been stated before.  Freddy could turn into Daken and spout off all the bullshit that Wolverine doesn't want to hear while massacring him.

2.)  Freddy could turn Wolverine into an actual wolverine and kill him via that fear.

3.)  Freddy could immobilize Wolverine and begin to pull out the Adamantium the same way Magneto did via TK and kill Wolverine with that fear.

4.)  Short answer:  Freddy can become immune to damage period.  Any damage that Wolverine does inflict will be instantly regenerated (see previous video).

5.)  Freddy is superhuman outside of Dream World (see previous video).  He can become way above the likes of Wolverine with a thought while in the Dream World.

However, I still say that the match is a stalemate or even for both sides.

1/10 for Freddy (for the times he can figure out what Wolverine is afraid of).
1/10 for Logan (for the times he can grab a hold of Krueger and pull him into the real world).

8/10 Neither can figure out what will kill the other and it goes on forever.


----------



## Saitou Hajime (Dec 28, 2013)

Mega Vereb said:


> And what happens if Freddy discovers Wolverine's fear?
> Will that kill him?



It doesn't have to be fears. Freddy has been shown to pervert benevolent aspects of a person's psyche, and even set them up in their optimal state and environment, then killed them.



> _
> Also to my knowledge Freddie cannot keep people trapped in his world forever.
> They'll wake up like normal people do.
> Of course they can't just wake up because they want to but I don't think there's anything preventing them to wake up in their natural schedule.
> _



That's what Freddy did to Joey in part 3. The kid was in a coma until Nancy and his friends went in and rescued him.


----------



## Punchsplosion (Dec 28, 2013)

Saitou Hajime said:


> It doesn't have to be fears. Freddy has been shown to pervert benevolent aspects of a person's psyche, and even set them up in their optimal state and environment, then killed them.
> 
> 
> 
> That's what Freddy did to Joey in part 3. The kid was in a coma until Nancy and his friends went in and rescued him.



Holy shit I forgot about Joey.  If Freddy is able to bind Wolverine at all (chains, giant boulder, under the ocean, etc), Wolverine will be stuck in Dream World while his body slips into a coma in the Real World.  Freddy can then possess his body like he did to the stoner in FvJ and Jessie in NoES 2.  That definitely constitutes a win.

Given this new bit of information, I give the fight to Freddy more times than not.  As he doesn't actually have to kill Wolverine in the Dream World to win, I see this going his way more often.  Coma is a permanent KO afterall.

Freddy Krueger 8/10 due to induced coma, possession, transmutation (as TF mentioned), and/or death by fears.
Wolverine 2/10 on the off chance that he actually pulls Freddy into the real world.


----------



## Saitou Hajime (Dec 28, 2013)

I don't really see Wolverine pulling Freddy into the real world ever. In every instance it has happened, it was with someone Freddy was confident enough to confront in a vulnerable corporeal form. He would never risk that with someone as overtly dangerous as Wolverine.


----------



## Punchsplosion (Dec 28, 2013)

Saitou Hajime said:


> I don't really see Wolverine pulling Freddy into the real world ever. In every instance it has happened, it was with someone Freddy was confident enough to confront in a vulnerable corporeal form. He would never risk that with someone as overtly dangerous as Wolverine.



Ehhhh Freddy is in character in this battle.  More times than not, he doesn't give a shit about whoever he is fighting in the Dream World.  He monologue's frequently and consistently plays around to build up that fear.  Through carelessness, I will give Logan 2 and only 2 chances.

If this were bloodlusted Freddy (given the new info), Freddy takes it 10/10 with minimal effort as he can just comatose Wolverine indefinitely.


----------



## Saitou Hajime (Dec 28, 2013)

Punchsplosion said:


> Ehhhh Freddy is in character in this battle.  More times than not, he doesn't give a shit about whoever he is fighting in the Dream World.  He monologue's frequently and consistently plays around to build up that fear.  Through carelessness, I will give Logan 2 and only 2 chances.



It's perfectly in character for Freddy to do what I described. Yeah, he likes to play around and pays for it often, but the kind of carelessness that results in him getting dragged to the real world are provoked by people that aren't Wolverine's type.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 28, 2013)

In Freddy vs Jason, he got pulled out so easy it wasn't even funny. He just grab the girl and the girl slightly grabbed him back and she woke up. He didn't even realize it. 

>Freddy being some kind of genious killer


----------



## Saitou Hajime (Dec 28, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> In Freddy vs Jason, he got pulled out so easy it wasn't even funny. He just grab the girl and the girl slightly grabbed him back and she woke up. He didn't even realize it.



A complete fluke that almost backfired in the perpetrator. And as I've said, completely hinged on the person doing the pulling being a particular victim type.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 28, 2013)

Complete fluke

Yet completely happen in every movie.

Don't let consistency destroy your argument 


Not to mention most of Freddy feats are one timers and are contradicted everytime 

Particular victim? Yes horny teenage girls . Wow impressive


----------



## Saitou Hajime (Dec 28, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> Complete fluke
> 
> Yet completely happen in every movie.
> 
> ...



"Complete fluke" in that Lori only pulled out Freddy by accident. It wasn't on purpose like with Nancy or Maggie in parts 1 and 6, respectively.

Since when did 3 times (probably 2, if you consider part 1 a dream) in 8 movies constitute a common occurrence?

You mind citing some of these one time and contradictory feats, or are you just spouting gibberish?

Yes, "horny teenage girls". Something Wolverine isn't. So good luck trying to sucker Freddy into the real world.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 28, 2013)

Like the whole Freddy teleportation shit but he is always tagged as an example  .


You heard it here first guys. Horny Teenage girls >>>> Wolverine


----------



## Saitou Hajime (Dec 28, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> Like the whole Freddy teleportation shit but he is always tagged as an example  .



Freddy likes to play with his victims and often pays for it.



> _
> You heard it here first guys. Horny Teenage girls >>>> Wolverine
> _



In terms of suckering Freddy into the real world. Please do pay attention to the discussion, boyo.


----------



## mcdave (Dec 28, 2013)

Saitou Hajime said:


> In terms of suckering Freddy into the real world. Please do pay attention to the discussion, boyo.



Induced bloodlust doesn't negate all CIS.

And did Freddy turn any real body into a cockroach? Or just the dreamers avatar?

Putting Wolverine into coma is alot harder than to get a normal Teenage girl/boy into it.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 28, 2013)

Saitou Hajime said:


> Freddy likes to play with his victims and often pays for it.
> 
> 
> 
> In terms of suckering Freddy into the real world. Please do pay attention to the discussion, boyo.


His powers come from toying with his victims as he constantly doesn't have firm control until he breaks his victim will. After all he is  inside *their* dream.


So you saying Wolverine is not smart/capable enough to drag Freddy into the real world over a teen age girl ? It's like you are not reading your own comments.


----------



## Punchsplosion (Dec 28, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> His powers come from toying with his victims as he constantly doesn't have firm control until he breaks his victim will. After all he is  inside *their* dream.
> 
> 
> So you saying Wolverine is not smart/capable enough to drag Freddy into the real world over a teen age girl ? It's like you are not reading your own comments.



That isn't how it works at all Danger Dong.

While in Dream World, Freddy has control.  Now, they can throw him for a tiny loop by Dream Manipulation.  However, if they lack his power level (everyone he has fought), then he just immediately changes it to his whim.  The fear aspect of his abilities give him more power to combat Dream Masters and Undead Juggernauts while in the Dream World since it gives him a near auto win if he can fear tap them.

Yes, Wolverine is not going to be capable of pulling Freddy into the Real World when Freddy won't allow him to wake up.  There is no outside sources to wake Wolverine up.  Ergo:  He's fucked.  Freddy pins him down after he realizes that his attacks can't outright kill Logan (unless he stumbles across his fears) and then body jacks the comatose berserker.


----------



## Archangel010 (Dec 28, 2013)

mcdave said:


> Induced bloodlust doesn't negate all CIS.


Yes it Does. At least it has for as long as I've been here. If the combatants are bloodlusted, then they use their powers in the most effective way as we describe it regardless of how they would normally use them.




> Putting Wolverine into coma is alot harder than to get a normal Teenage girl/boy into it.



True. Given what Vereb had said, I'm going to restate my opinion, that when Wolverine Wakes up he wins due to BFR. Freddy is in another dimension unable to harm Wolverine in any way. Unable to complete the objectives set by the OP, counts as a loss.

EDIT: Forgot about the body stealing... Freddy has done it Twice? Once in I think the Third movie and once in Freddy Vs. Jason. That really tips it in his Favor.


----------



## mcdave (Dec 28, 2013)

Archangel010 said:


> Yes it Does. At least it has for as long as I've been here. If the combatants are bloodlusted, then they use their powers in the most effective way as we describe it regardless of how they would normally use them.



Only if you don't count being dumb as character trait.
You can't make some dumbass craft an elaborate plan

You can't make Wolfs open Doors if you give them bloodlust its not CIS but lacking cognitive Ability.


----------



## Archangel010 (Dec 28, 2013)

mcdave said:


> Only if you don't count being dumb as character trait.
> You can't make some dumbass craft an elaborate plan
> 
> You can't make Wolfs open Doors if you give them bloodlust its not CIS but lacking cognitive Ability.



What you're saying is two completely different things. Look at Absorbing Man from Marvel. He's a fucking dumbass, but his powers are nearly broken. In OBD Bloodlusted mean CIS off, which means that, yes, I can have Absorbing Man use his powers in a way that he normally wouldn't. A character being dumb as hell is the definition of CIS, and that why when bloodlusted it's turned off.

You wolf example is giving the wolf extra powers which you cannot do. I cannot give Absorbing Man Powers outside what he can do, no matter how bloodlusted, but I can make him use his powers to their fullest. Again going with your wolf example, I came make the wolf track the target by smell and find another entrance.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 28, 2013)

Punchsplosion said:


> That isn't how it works at all Danger Dong.
> 
> While in Dream World, Freddy has control.  Now, they can throw him for a tiny loop by Dream Manipulation.  However, if they lack his power level (everyone he has fought), then he just immediately changes it to his whim.  The fear aspect of his abilities give him more power to combat Dream Masters and Undead Juggernauts while in the Dream World since it gives him a near auto win if he can fear tap them.
> 
> Yes, Wolverine is not going to be capable of pulling Freddy into the Real World when Freddy won't allow him to wake up.  There is no outside sources to wake Wolverine up.  Ergo:  He's fucked.  Freddy pins him down after he realizes that his attacks can't outright kill Logan (unless he stumbles across his fears) and then body jacks the comatose berserker.


Except half your nonsense is contradicted in Freddy vs Jason where plot came in and allow Freddy to take over Jason dream. You know once he didn't know Jack shit about Jason childhood fear of drowning and wasn't doing shit to Jason in his own Nightmare.
Freddy doesn't have control in dreams if he did he wouldn't be defeated and consistency isn't pis nor a character trait of beig stupid being CIS . Because he has yet to show otherwise.


The height of Freddy powers are stalking one horny teenage girl at a time on a single street. No matter how much you screen Wolvie is going carve up Freddy nice Bub .


----------



## Punchsplosion (Dec 28, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> Except half your nonsense is contradicted in Freddy vs Jason where plot came in and allow Freddy to take over Jason dream. You know once he didn't know Jack shit about Jason childhood fear of drowning and wasn't doing shit to Jason in his own Nightmare.
> Freddy doesn't have control in dreams if he did he wouldn't be defeated and consistency isn't pis nor a character trait of beig stupid being CIS . Because he has yet to show otherwise.
> 
> 
> The height of Freddy powers are stalking one horny teenage girl at a time on a single street. No matter how much you screen Wolvie is going carve up Freddy nice Bub .



1.)  I'm sure that was totally Jason's dream.  I mean, I can totally picture a character who probably has never seen a fucking giant ass boiler room (Freddy's staple setting) seeing as how he never ventured out of Crystal Lake dreaming about it.  Smart logic there Danger Dong.

2.)  He has changed the settings of dreams before inducing fear and has pulled people immediately into a setting they didn't even know existed (see every fucking movie that he pulls people into the Elm Street house without them EVER knowing about it or in NoES 5 where he pulls Alice into that fucking insane asylum immediately upon entering sleep). 

Once again, evidence outright shows that Freddy only loses due to his own playfulness and outside forces.  Keep your downplaying out of this thread as you only embarrass yourself by showing your outright hatred for the character and blindness to all proof concerning his victory.


----------



## mcdave (Dec 28, 2013)

Punchsplosion said:


> Once again, evidence outright shows that Freddy only loses due to his own playfulness and outside forces.  Keep your downplaying out of this thread as you only embarrass yourself by showing your outright hatred for the character and blindness to all proof concerning his victory.


Do you have a link to the snatching feat I only found one where freddy crawled out of someone like a Xenomorph.


----------



## Punchsplosion (Dec 28, 2013)

mcdave said:


> Do you have a link to the snatching feat I only found one where freddy crawled out of someone like a Xenomorph.



I will find one later.  I don't have time as I am leaving for for my brother's place to go watch the UFC!!!!!!  Tty guys later about this.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 28, 2013)

One of the plot point was to get Jason asleep so Freddy can kill him since he was uncontrollable. Therefore it's Jason dreams and Freddy had zero knowledge of Jason fear and zero power over him before a plot device. Then again following shitty plots must be too hard  .

Freddy has never haunted anyone outside of the Town and within the neighborhood of the street. The house itself got redecorated. Maybe you need to learn to comprehend what you are watching . 


Evidence you have zero evidence to support your claim either over exaggerate wank of a p*d*p**** who strictly kills teenagers. And is constantly beaten by them. I know the truth rustled you so much


----------



## Strange of Eternity (Dec 28, 2013)

^
I'm amazed of how far this thread has gone, why would you waste posts on this, doom?..


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 28, 2013)

Strange of Eternity said:


> ^
> I'm amazed of how far this thread has gone, why would you waste posts on this, doom?..



I like my shake, shaken and not stirred.


----------



## Saitou Hajime (Dec 28, 2013)

mcdave said:


> Induced bloodlust doesn't negate all CIS.
> 
> And did Freddy turn any real body into a cockroach? Or just the dreamers avatar?
> 
> Putting Wolverine into coma is alot harder than to get a normal Teenage girl/boy into it.



What I'm arguing is that the CIS in question is victim-specific, and isn't likely to be triggered by someone like Wolverine.

Just the dreamer's avatar.

Wolverine gets put into a coma once he can't wake up, which happens when Freddy traps him in the dream world.



Danger Doom said:


> His powers come from toying with his victims as he constantly doesn't have firm control until he breaks his victim will. After all he is  inside *their* dream.
> 
> So you saying Wolverine is not smart/capable enough to drag Freddy into the real world over a teen age girl ? It's like you are not reading your own comments.



It's their dream, but they play by his rules(part 6). Your assertion that he needs to break his victims's wills to gain firm control doesn't jive with events in the main series, where he has demonstrated full control almost as soon as the victims awake on the dream world, or where he kills some victims when they seemingly have the upper hand on him.

Wolverine being smart or capable is what works against him as Freddy would treat him accordingly, as opposed to a non-threatening teenage girl, whom Freddy would choose to confront in his "actual" form and risk getting pulled into the real world.

Also, citing FvJ as a source for inconsistency in Freddy's abilities doesn't work, as that film took liberties with both characters to make fights between them work.


----------



## Vivi Ornitier (Dec 29, 2013)

Freddy VS Jason was not inconsistent. Freddy lost the Dream Demons in the 6th movie, that's why he was "nerfed"


----------



## Punchsplosion (Dec 29, 2013)

Saitou Hajime said:


> What I'm arguing is that the CIS in question is victim-specific, and isn't likely to be triggered by someone like Wolverine.
> 
> Just the dreamer's avatar.
> 
> ...



All of this.  However, it doesn't matter.  As Danger Dong will still resort to the verbal equivalent of sticking his fingers into his ears and saying "Lalalalalalalalalal." 

He downplays the things he doesn't like and is a blatant fanboy with respects to the characters he is fond of.

Bottom line.  Wolverine gets comatose.


----------



## LostHanyou (Dec 29, 2013)

So peak Freddy > Wolverine
But Wolverine >/= FvJ Freddy?

That's what I'm getting out of this from the more rational sounding posts.


----------



## Mr. Black Leg (Dec 29, 2013)

LostHanyou said:


> So peak Freddy > Wolverine
> But Wolverine >/= FvJ Freddy?
> 
> That's what I'm getting out of this from the more rational sounding posts.



Peak Freddy = Stalemate .

Logan > Without Dream Demons Freddy .


----------



## Punchsplosion (Dec 29, 2013)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Peak Freddy = Stalemate .
> 
> Logan > Without Dream Demons Freddy .



Holy shit.  Seriously?

It's Dream World Freddy >>>>>>>>>>> Dream World Logan.

Real World Logan >>> Real World Freddy.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 29, 2013)

Horny Teenage girl >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dream Freddy
Horny Teenage girl >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>real world Freddy .
Prescription drugs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dream Freddy
Wolverine >>>>>>>> any Freddy.


Canon


----------



## Punchsplosion (Dec 29, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> Horny Teenage girl >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dream Freddy
> Horny Teenage girl >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>real world Freddy .
> Prescription drugs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dream Freddy
> Wolverine >>>>>>>> any Freddy.
> ...



Having an actual rebuttal to established points >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Danger Dong wanking/downplay.

No intelligent rebuttals for comatose or fear death

Like I said.

8/10 IC Freddy.
10/10 BL Freddy.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 29, 2013)

Cool fanfic bro.


Freddy can't break Adamantium. Logan 100/10.


----------



## Punchsplosion (Dec 29, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> Cool fanfic bro.
> 
> 
> Freddy can't break Adamantium. Logan 100/10.



Did you even read the fucking thread?  Admantium means dick as it doesn't prevent the comatose OR the death from his fear.

GTFO Danger Dong.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 29, 2013)

Oh so teenage girls can wake up but Wolverine can't ? Not like he has been out in a coma by City wide Telepaths before not at all.


Yeah nice fanfic you got. Doesn't change the fact that Freddy is a joke.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 29, 2013)

Fear from a guy who has seen death ?  


You are really thirsty.





Yeah Wolverine will be so afraid of this mosquito. .


----------



## Punchsplosion (Dec 29, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> Fear from a guy who has seen death ?
> 
> 
> You are really thirsty.
> ...



Except the only people to wake up when Freddy has attempted to kill them have done so because of outside sources.  Already been shown on multiple occasions.

Supernatural coma due to being imprisoned in the Dream World is completely different than telepathy.  Already been discussed.

Wolverine doesn't have to be afraid of Freddy dipshit.  He has established fears that Freddy can exploit.  Which has already talked about at length.

Nice downplaying.  It feeds my humor at your pathetic arguments.


----------



## Punchsplosion (Dec 29, 2013)

Bottom line?  You can only repeat the same weak ass shit you always do.  Just like in the Wolfe thread, you have been logically destroyed with respects to this hypothetical battle.  Concession accepted.


----------



## Punchsplosion (Dec 29, 2013)

Let me guess?  More talk about female teenagers?  It's tired dude.  So, drop it.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 29, 2013)

Logically destroyed ? What thread you been reading ? 
Then again you think ad hominems are points. 

Yeah I be pretty much rustled if I was you. After all you still can't counter the fact that your guy gets beat consistently by dimwitted teenage girls. 


Wolverine has fought his way through hell. He babyshakes Freddy


----------



## Punchsplosion (Dec 29, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> Logically destroyed ? What thread you been reading ?
> Then again you think ad hominems are points.
> 
> Yeah I be pretty much rustled if I was you. After all you still can't counter the fact that your guy gets beat consistently by dimwitted teenage girls.
> ...



And rampant downplaying is an effective and acceptable means of argumentative reasoning?  Oh wait, it isn't.  This applies specifically when dealing with the REASONS for why a character loses his actual fights in the source material.  Considering that there are plenty of times where Freddy just outright murders people in the Dream World without warning....

Link removed
(Very first movie)

or kills people that don't even believe in him...

Link removed
(Fourth movie)

WITHOUT BREAKING A SWEAT (see what I did there for that last clip?), yet you choose to focus on the near non-existent low-end showings as an attempt to win this debate because you can't come up with any feats of Wolverine being able to do DICK ALL in the Dream World.  It shows that you are pathetic.

Shall I repost everything from the Wolfe thread to prove you wrong to this group of people as well?

Freddy successfully kills every person he sets out to kill with the exception of those that had outside interference or were his supernatural counterpart (Dream Master).  44 people total (a fair amount instantly murdered regardless of their will power, supernatural abilities, etc) have died to this "joke of a horror movie villain".

You can choose to believe that it isn't PIS or CIS that gets him killed.  However, that is your personal belief and doesn't mean jack shit in this debate.  The laundry list of his abilities, his personality, and the circumstances surrounding his defeats all support otherwise.  So, go back your page and cry more about the loss from another one of your favorite characters to Freddy Krueger.


----------



## Punchsplosion (Dec 29, 2013)

We get that you don't think Freddy is a quality character.  However, as that doesn't matter in this debate and the fact that your accusing me of Ad Homenim fallacies justifies me being wrong in this debate is also fallacious (the Fallacy Fallacy)....

I would suggest you stop now.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 29, 2013)

It amazes me that like 5 people including a mod explained this already and you still can't grasp what is CIS and PIS.

Being stupid is a character trait therefore not CIS. That means claiming it doesn't mean your guy suddenly becomes smart.

Consistently being weaken, troubled and beaten the same way is not PIS. All you do is dribble around the same nonsense of " conditions and ced circumstances " that Freddy has yet to prove otherwise. 

As far as the rest of the post, same garbage with joke feats. Wolverine was in hell and fought his way through it. As far as I am concern that shits on Freddy teenage fetish.


----------



## Punchsplosion (Dec 29, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> It amazes me that like 5 people including a mod explained this already and you still can't grasp what is CIS and PIS.
> 
> Being stupid is a character trait therefore not CIS.
> 
> ...



Ahahahah seriously?  Once again, you still have no valid points and you can't type for the life of you to make a valid point.  Concession accepted.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 29, 2013)

Do you know what ad hominem is? I provided a feat that is not Wolverine fighting teenagers but Demons in hell. And you telling me to stop? Hilarious .


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 29, 2013)

Punchsplosion said:


> Ahahahah seriously?  Once again, you still have no valid points and you can't type for the life of you to make a valid point.  Concession accepted.



I get it you don't like to lose. I understand I was 14 once. But saying concession accepted doesn't make your wank a valid point


----------



## Saitou Hajime (Dec 29, 2013)

I sometimes wonder if some people even watch these movies, with their nonsense of Freddy consistently losing to teenage girls. The only teenage girl he has ever lost to was Alice in part 4, who was his good counterpart and even she needed a plot device to defeat him.


----------



## Punchsplosion (Dec 29, 2013)

Short for "Character - Induced Stupidity", CIS refers to mental limits of a character that cause them to perform at below the true potential of their powers.

I.E. Not outright killing people in Dream World because he likes to play and monologue.  That is CIS.  No matter how you spin it.  Just because it is consistent doesn't make it not CIS.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 29, 2013)

> true potential 

> one house at a time




Time to get Preet to lock this .


----------



## Punchsplosion (Dec 29, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> Do you know what ad hominem is? I provided a feat that is not Wolverine fighting teenagers but Demons in hell. And you telling me to stop? Hilarious .





>Says he posted a panel of Wolverine fighting demons in hell
>Actually posted a panel of Wolverine being held by demons in hell and talking shit to them.
>Use this as proof of a point.  Typical Danger Dong wanking.

You lose.  All the time you lose Danger Dong.


----------



## Punchsplosion (Dec 29, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> > true potential
> 
> > one house at a time
> 
> ...



Lock a thread you have officially lost?  Good idea.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 29, 2013)

Try reading the panel. The your Stubborn part is implying he had been through shit.


----------



## Punchsplosion (Dec 29, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> Try reading the panel. The your Stubborn part is implying he was been out through shit.




Did you even proof read what you typed?  Take some English courses and then come back at me bro.

Yes, I read the panel and it pertains exactly dick all to the discussion.

>Shows nothing prior to what Wolverine has endured.
>Demon's dialogue indicates that they haven't even really begun to severely torture Wolverine.
>Show's general concern for Silver Samurai which will obviously exploited in the next panel.
>Doesn't show him resisting reality warping/manipulation or dying from his fear.
>Doesn't show him resisting supernatural comatose.

So, for the last time.

Freddy (In character) 8/10.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 29, 2013)

Lock the thread so you don't catch a heart attack from your stress. Your welcome .


A parting gift 




How did you think he got out of hell 


Wolverine babyshakes the D list villain.


----------



## Punchsplosion (Dec 29, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> Lock the thread so you don't catch a heart attack from your stress. Your welcome .
> 
> 
> A parting gift
> ...



Ghost Rider, Daimon Hellstrom and Melita get him out.

Wolverine Goes to Hell
Logan visited Wraith, who survived Creed?s attack and was now a pastor. After a few weeks, a child was found dead with three claw marks. Wraith found Logan?s body, which had been possessed by the devil. In hell, Logan apparently met Satan and was force to battle Hand soldiers. Meanwhile, Wolverine?s body was going around killing the people he cared about. Melita, and surprisingly Mystique, teamed up with the Ghost Rider and Daimon Hellstrom to get Logan?s soul back. In Hell, Logan was tortured and then forced to battle Sabretooth. On Utopia, ?Hellverine? has managed to get past the defenses, only to be knocked down by Colossus. In Hell, Logan fought Satan and on Utopia, the X-Men battled Hellverine. Before Colossus could be killed, Melita, Mystique, the Ghost Rider and Hellstrom captured Logan and began the ritual to bring his soul back. In Hell, Logan met Thomas Logan, who claimed to be his real father. The X-Men led a rescue attempt and went into his mind and the Phoenix burned the demons from his mind. Logan then plan to get revenge.

He didn't get out on his own power.  His body was also possessed.  Thanks for proving my point about you Danger Dong.  You post obscure panels and expect that to count as evidence.  All-the-while thinking that no one will investigate your bullshit.


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 29, 2013)

Try reading that again there sport his body as in what was left on Earth was possess . His soul weaken, FYI, was in hell.



It also directly states Logan fought satan. And not to mention he was tested with all his fear and turmoil.


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## Punchsplosion (Dec 29, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> Try reading that again there sport his body as in what was left on Earth was possess . His soul weaken, FYI, was in hell.
> 
> 
> 
> It also directly states Logan fought satan. And not t mention he was tested with all his fear and turmoil.



Which means that if he is bound in the Dream World, Freddy could possess his body.  Thanks for understanding what I was getting at.

He fought Satan and didn't do anything but trick the demons into attacking their master by cutting him.  

He still didn't escape Hell under his own power.  He still got possessed.  He still was mentally tortured.  No one attempted to kill him via fear.

Your points exactly?


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 29, 2013)

So you think Freddy = Satan ?

You copy and paste a brief summary why not the part where he came to terms to his turmoil? And why not disprove he was holding his own down there?


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## Punchsplosion (Dec 29, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> So you think Freddy = Satan ?



Nice illogical leap.  You just committed another fallacy.  Non-sequitur.

No I don't.  And I don't need to say that to prove my point.  Which has already been proven.  Thanks.


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## Punchsplosion (Dec 29, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> So you think Freddy = Satan ?
> 
> You copy and paste a brief summary why not the part where he came to terms to his turmoil? And why disprove he was holding his own down there?



It's up to you to show that panel Danger Dong.  Find it and show it.  Burden of Proof is on you.


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 29, 2013)

I showed you the panel. I also helped you comprehend the summary you brought. That directly states he fought demons and Satan. 


So like I said I already won my case.


By the way just so you know if someone more powerful can do X doesn't mean a fly can replicate the same feats. That's not how it works .

"If Satan can do it so can Freddy."


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## Punchsplosion (Dec 29, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> I showed you the panel. I also helped you comprehend the summary you brought. That directly states he fought demons and Satan.
> 
> 
> So like I said I already won my case.
> ...



No you didn't show anything other than Marduk talking about how they had TORTURED him.  They weren't trying to kill him.  They were trying to break him.  Yes, Wolverine is mentally tough.  Good job.  However, he isn't immune to fear (he has plenty).

He escaped his captures and is able to injure demons while in a spiritual form.  Great.  He didn't get reality warped.  He didn't fight anyone that can use his fears to kill him.  He actively was being restrained by demons and kept out of his body by being in hell.  His body was possessed by another demon.

You actually completely disproved your points entirely.

Once again....Non-sequitur.  I'm not saying that all.  You have yet to offer proof that Wolverine can resist anything that Freddy can do to him.  You inflate a time where Wolverine was in Hell and still couldn't effectively do anything to the demons he was dealing with.  Especially since the demons in question didn't attempt to reality warp him into precarious positions.

In other words, you proved exactly what I have been saying all along by showing that Wolverine was affected by everything that I said Freddy could win by.

>Can wound demons in their own realm.  Freddy can instantly regenerate.
>Restrained in another realm.
>Body was comatose.
>Body was possessed.
>Could not escape the realm under his own power.

Thanks for helping me out.


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## Punchsplosion (Dec 29, 2013)

"I enjoyed your scream from before.  It was truly heartfelt.  I could tell.  I know a truly heartfelt scream when I hear one."

>Implies Wolvie wasn't affected at all by what was going on.
>Evidence shows that he was totally affected by what was going on before.  "Parading dead loved ones around."


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## Saitou Hajime (Dec 29, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> By the way just so you know if someone more powerful can do X doesn't mean a fly can replicate the same feats. That's not how it works .
> 
> "If Satan can do it so can Freddy."



I didn't realize that manifesting dead love ones was that difficult a feat. That's like child's play for Freddy. And according to "Satan" Wolverine was already crying like a baby just from something that trivial. Freddy would've gone one step further and actually had said dead love ones sodomize Wolverine.


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 29, 2013)

Prove what that you believe that Freddy power is Equal to Satan?

I can show a planetary level Telepath taking over Wolverine's mind and that wouldn't help your case because Freddy is shit tier to said Telepath.

It just shows how deluded you are .


Any way Freddy gets rape by a guy who got trick into hell via plot point. Weaken with no Adamantium and a less effective healing factor.  Faced all his sins, turmoil and fears without breaking. Fight hordes of enemies and demons alone including a run in with the big boss of hell. 

There is absolutely nothing Freddy has that can top that.


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## hammer (Dec 29, 2013)

cant you stop freddy by saying I don't believe in you, or not actually being scared by him?


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## Saitou Hajime (Dec 29, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> Prove what that you believe that Freddy power is Equal to Satan?
> 
> I can show a planetary level Telepath taking over Wolverine's mind and that wouldn't help your case because Freddy is shit tier to said Telepath.
> 
> It just shows how deluded you are .



You keep getting hung up on power levels, when what I'm debating is the quality of the feat. And summoning deceased loved ones, which is apparently sufficient to torture Wolverine immensely, is a basic feat that Freddy himself has done in the past and contrary to your logic doesn't need the power of "Satan" or a planetary-level telepath to pull off.



hammer said:


> cant you stop freddy by saying I don't believe in you, or not actually being scared by him?



"I DON'T BELIEVE IN YOU!"
"WELL *I* BELIEVE IN *YOU*."
*turns girl into cockroach*

"I don't believe in you and I'm not scared of you, and I'm just going turn my back and you'll disappear."
*film ends with girl being screwed over by Freddy*


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 29, 2013)

You don't seem to grasp that if Wolverine has been tortured by a far superior being and overcame it/endure/ resisted. Then anything less is joke. 
That is the point, you know ABC logic doesn't work here. If A can do it so can B. That's bullshit. 

Being controlled by a demon >>>> than what Freddy does considering the damn demon was strong enough to take out the Xmen. And they had to send Logan soul to hell first before they took over his body.


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## Saitou Hajime (Dec 30, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> You don't seem to grasp that if Wolverine has been tortured by a far superior being and overcame it/endure/ resisted. Then anything less is joke.
> That is the point, you know ABC logic doesn't work here. If A can do it so can B. That's bullshit.
> 
> Being controlled by a demon >>>> than what Freddy does considering the damn demon was strong enough to take out the Xmen. And they had to send Logan soul to hell first before they took over his body.



Wolverine "endured" seeing his deceased loved ones paraded in front on him, but it was still apparently torturous. And that despite Wolverine's confidence, the demon hadn't even begun to warm up.  

ABC logic isn't at play here because Freddy has already demonstrated he can pull off the same feat (ie summoning deceased loved ones). Again, according to your logic just because a superior being pulls off a basic feat, that a lower being can't do it, which is ridiculous. That's like saying Freddy can't conjure fire because the demon did.


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 30, 2013)

He didn't summon no decease love ones what Freddy did was he used memories. If he had the power to summon or dismiss he wouldn't have to use memories of Jason mom to awaken him. Wolverine was actually brought to his love ones. Not the same thing.


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 30, 2013)

No it's saying Freddy basic 100 degree fire is shit to being burn by Hellfire that's over 1 million degrees for example.
He was in hell. That wasn't a dream he was being tortured physically and mentally. You are trying too hard to equate Freddy to hell.


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## Saitou Hajime (Dec 30, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> He didn't summon no decease love ones what Freddy did was he used memories. If he had the power to summon or dismiss he wouldn't have to use memories of Jason mom to awaken him. Wolverine was actually brought to his love ones. Not the same thing.



Nope, Freddy has also summoned souls of love ones and tortured them in front of a current victim to screw with them. And reality is relative in the dream world anyway, so there's no distinction between memories and the real thing.

Were those really his loved ones or was the demon just screwing with him? Because I can't see how a demon having access to a remotely decent person.


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 30, 2013)

They killed them and brought them to Logan .

As for Freddy the only souls Freddy has access to are those he killed . And no reality and dream are not relative to each other .


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## Saitou Hajime (Dec 30, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> They killed them and brought them to Logan .
> 
> As for Freddy the only souls Freddy has access to are those he killed . And no reality and dream are not relative to each other .



What you just described the demons did isn't all that different from what Freddy does. And reality and dreams are relative in the NOES, that's pretty much the point of the franchise.


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 30, 2013)

Actually it wasn't because the more elaborate deaths were not copied the same way in the real world.


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 30, 2013)

And the not exactly because Freddy just used the person image to show what he wants to show. Wolverine was face with the actual person. Freddy has never and I mean never shown the ability to summon souls to that extent.


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## Punchsplosion (Dec 30, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> You don't seem to grasp that if Wolverine has been tortured by a far superior being and overcame it/endure/ resisted. Then anything less is joke.
> That is the point, you know ABC logic doesn't work here. If A can do it so can B. That's bullshit.
> 
> Being controlled by a demon >>>> than what Freddy does considering the damn demon was strong enough to take out the Xmen. And they had to send Logan soul to hell first before they took over his body.



But you didn't show him RESISTING ANYTHING.  You showed the results of him being tortured.  He screamed in anguish.  He then said, "I'm not afraid of you."  Hell doesn't destroy you.  You just get tortured for all eternity.

Your attempt at convincing people that he can resist Freddy is based on a lack of evidence that he resisted shit in Hell.  The panel you posted shows otherwise.

>He didn't resist possession.
>He didn't resist the images of his loved one torturing him.
>He didn't resist being comatose.
>He didn't escape on his own power.


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## Punchsplosion (Dec 30, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> And the not exactly because Freddy just used the person image to show what he wants to show. Wolverine was face with the actual person. Freddy has never and I mean never shown the ability to summon souls to that extent.



This is all irrelevant.

Proof that he can resist being supernaturally comatose?
Proof that he can resist being supernaturally killed by his own fears?

It's as simple as that.  I don't want grand conjecture.  I don't want baseless assumptions from shit that you are attempting to peddle off as a legit feat.  There is no feat there.


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## Strange of Eternity (Dec 30, 2013)

So apparently Freddy not only is a dream manipulator of "massive proportions", but also has soul manipulation, mind fucking powers and his own little personal hell.
You heard it here folks...


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## Punchsplosion (Dec 30, 2013)

Strange of Eternity said:


> So apparently Freddy not only is a dream manipulator of "massive proportions", but also has soul manipulation, mind fucking powers and his own little personal hell.
> You heard it here folks...



Soul manipulation - Corrupts Jacob's (the child of Alice) soul while in the womb and uses it to casually screw with Alice and her friends.  Additionally, absorbs the souls of the people that he kills.  

Mind fucking - No.

Mind reading - Limited to memories and fears.

Own personal hell - If you are referring to the Dream World, then yes.


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 30, 2013)

Yeah because the devil ripping your soul out equals to what  Freddy does right?

Inb4 Freddy has soul fuckery comparable to the devil. 


Another demon wolverine mind smack around .


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 30, 2013)

You really don't want me to start posting from the respect thread because the high level TP resist feats for Logan will tear your arguments and then some.


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## Punchsplosion (Dec 30, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> Yeah because the devil ripping your soul out equals to what  Freddy does right?
> 
> Inb4 Freddy has soul fuckery comparable to the devil.
> 
> ...



IT ISN'T TELEPATHY THAT FREDDY IS DOING.

You haven't shown Wolverine RESISTING ANY GODDAMN THING OF RELEVANCE.

Dream World isn't telepathy based.  It's an alternate dimension.

You fail at reading comprehension.

So, you lose this argument.


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## Havoc (Dec 30, 2013)

Freddy can't do shit to Wolverine.


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## Punchsplosion (Dec 30, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> You really don't want me to start posting from the respect thread because the high level TP resist feats for Logan will tear your arguments and then some.



No it won't because EVERYTHING you post is irrelevant because you have ZERO understanding of Freddy's abilities.


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 30, 2013)

That's ogun a 1000 year old demon. He is possessing him, that's why they drew a red spirit. 


Comprehension skills again .


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## Punchsplosion (Dec 30, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> That's ogun a 1000 year old demon. He is possessing him, that's why they drew a red spirit.
> 
> 
> Comprehension skills again .



Seriously?  I'm talking about possessing Logan's body AFTER he is comatose.  Comprehension skills much?


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## Havoc (Dec 30, 2013)

Wolverine would wake up and cut Freddy's dick off.

Fact.


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## Punchsplosion (Dec 30, 2013)

If you had paid attention at all, I said the main points for Wolverine losing are being supernaturally comatose and getting killed by his own fear.


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## Punchsplosion (Dec 30, 2013)

Havoc said:


> Wolverine would wake up and cut Freddy's dick off.
> 
> Fact.



Great Havoc is here to say "Fight me in real life."


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 30, 2013)

This would have been fun with Deadpool. Picturing Wade telling Freddy he already slept and broke Lady Death heart what the fuck he is going to do.


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 30, 2013)

Asleep or awake doesn't change the fact Logan beats Freddy like a pi?ata.


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## Punchsplosion (Dec 30, 2013)

Having no proof of resistance to being bound in another dimension and comatose or being immune to Freddy just outright fear killing him....

Freddy 8/10

And I am done with this thread.


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## Havoc (Dec 30, 2013)

Punchsplosion said:


> Great Havoc is here to say "Fight me in real life."



I don't say that.

So fight me irl.


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## Strange of Eternity (Dec 30, 2013)

Punchsplosion logic vs the world...


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