# Susano'o takes a physical strength gauntlet!



## ATastyMuffin (Nov 6, 2014)

Recently we learned that a beginning-of-Part-2 Sakura has a punch twice as strong as Sasuke's skeletal Susanoo, so why don't we match up the thing against other hard hitters?

Which of the following fighters can win an *arm-wrestling* contest i) Sasuke's skeletal Susanoo, ii) Itachi's final Susanoo, iii) Madara's complete, legged Susanoo, iv) Sasuke's Kurama cloak-enhanced Susanoo, and lastly, v) Madara's Perfect Susanoo?

Four-Tailed Naruto
Fourth Raikage Ay
Butterfly Mode Choji
Sage Naruto
Six-Tailed Naruto
Third Raikage Ay
Tsunade
Kurama-enhanced enlarged Choji
Eight-Tails
100% Kurama
Tailed Beast Mode Naruto (avatar)
Tailed Beast Sage Mode Naruto (avatar)


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## JuicyG (Nov 9, 2014)

BM Choji 
Sage Naruto
4 Tails Naruto 

None of these would be able to ...the rest have a legitimate shot at beating at least one of them


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## IchLiebe (Nov 9, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> BM Choji
> Sage Naruto
> 4 Tails Naruto
> 
> None of these would be able to ...the rest have a legitimate shot at beating at least one of them



KN4 did this by WAVING his hand. KN3 did this. Susanoo ain't got a goddamn thing on KN2 and up.

BM Choji went up against Gedo Mazou so I don't see Susanoo winning that.

Sage Naruto threw a goddamn summon into space, susanoo can't do that IMO.


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## Hachibi (Nov 9, 2014)

Where does the Susano downplay come form?


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## IchLiebe (Nov 9, 2014)

It's not downplay. It's been hyped up to something it just isn't.


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## Hachibi (Nov 9, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> It's not downplay. It's been hyped up to something it just isn't.



Just like how it crushed Danzo with ease?

Also, I can't take seriously the Yagatama = explosive tags shit.


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## IchLiebe (Nov 9, 2014)

Hachibi said:


> Just like how it crushed Danzo with ease?
> 
> Also, I can't take seriously the Yagatama = explosive tags shit.



And how Tsunade punched Madara and blew off his body away while Susanoo punched Danzo and Danzo showed no injuries. How about how it punched the bridge several times and did little damage? Sure it can smash someone in the ground and kill them but besides that, it's nothing. Madara's susanoo punched Mei through the air and she didn't even get broken bones.

Yagatama has shown comparable damage several times to an explosive tag.


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## JuicyG (Nov 9, 2014)

Now to think of it, Susano is almost just an extension of the user which grants armor and improves striking range & power.


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## Hachibi (Nov 9, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> And how Tsunade punched Madara and blew off his body away



Wood Clone and it doesn't concern Susano.



> while Susanoo punched Danzo and Danzo showed no injuries.



He had Izanagi actived at the time...



> How about how it punched the bridge several times and did little damage?



In its V2 stade? When we all know that Susano's true offense rely on its weapon(s)?



> Madara's susanoo punched Mei through the air and she didn't even get broken bones.



You mean a Wood Clone with 1/25th of the original's power right?



> Yagatama has shown comparable damage several times to an explosive tag.



Didn't know that a explosive tag could almost go through Onoki's Rock Golem + Gaara's Sand Mother.


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## IchLiebe (Nov 9, 2014)

Hachibi said:


> Wood Clone and it doesn't concern Susano.



Wood clone or not, it's durability is the same as Madara's. What cuts a wood clone will cut Madara. Tsunade cracked ribcage susanoo, are you saying his body is more durable? And it does. Look at Susanoo's punch here. Danzo showed no injuries. While Tsunade's punch INSTANTLY did this.



> He had Izanagi actived at the time...



And he still took damage, he would merely reset after the damage.



> In its V2 stade? When we all know that Susano's true offense rely on its weapon(s)?



And it's weapons are lacking too. Sasuke's arrows barely went into the bridge as well as the cave in the Kabuto fight. 



> You mean a Wood Clone with 1/25th of the original's power right?



It doesn't take away the power of a ninjutsu. Kakashi uses raikiri after a bunshin and it's still full power. The explanation of ninjutsu we got said that a jutsu requires a certain amount of chakra. It doesn't matter if you put more into it or not, the result will be the same.

Susanoo costs 20 chakra.
Madara spends 30 chakra.
Susanoo is the same strength but Madara wasted 10 chakra.
Madara spends 19 chakra.
Susanoo fails.



> Didn't know that a explosive tag could almost go through Onoki's Rock Golem + Gaara's Sand Mother.



Amaterasu went through Jiraiya's toad stomach in an instant and then barely burnt Karin. I like how that Magatama didn't even do any damage to Tsunade. You got one outlier feat while several other feats show it barely doing anything.


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## Hachibi (Nov 9, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Wood clone or not, it's durability is the same as Madara's. What cuts a wood clone will cut Madara. Tsunade cracked ribcage susanoo, are you saying his body is more durable? And it does. Look at Susanoo's punch here. Danzo showed no injuries. While Tsunade's punch INSTANTLY did this.



We couldn't even see Danzo close enough to say that.



> And he still took damage, he would merely reset after the damage.



Same as above.



> And it's weapons are lacking too. Sasuke's arrows barely went into the bridge as well as the cave in the Kabuto fight.



And then it went through Danzo's Mokuton like butter and forced Kakashi to Kamui.



> It doesn't take away the power of a ninjutsu. Kakashi uses raikiri after a bunshin and it's still full power. The explanation of ninjutsu we got said that a jutsu requires a certain amount of chakra. It doesn't matter if you put more into it or not, the result will be the same.
> 
> Susanoo costs 20 chakra.
> Madara spends 30 chakra.
> ...



Hashirama's Wood Clones were so weak that Madara defeated them while sitting on his ass.



> Amaterasu went through Jiraiya's toad stomach in an instant and then barely burnt Karin. I like how that Magatama didn't even do any damage to Tsunade. You got one outlier feat while several other feats show it barely doing anything.



Good thing Kishi is inconsistent with Amaterasu, since we saw it make Hachibi and the Juubi cry, One-Shotting Cerberus and make Ei chop his arm.

Also the Magatama used against Tsunade is far weaker than the one used against Onoki + Ei.


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## IchLiebe (Nov 9, 2014)

Hachibi said:


> We couldn't even see Danzo close enough to say that.



Was his body in 100% contact? Yes. Was Madara's? No. Tsunade and Sakura have put out more damage than Susanoo has UP TO PERFECT Susanoo.



> Same as above.



LOL. We saw a arrow go through Danzo and then him reset. Damage is still done.



> And then it went through Danzo's Mokuton like butter and forced Kakashi to Kamui.



Kakashi wasn't fast enough to react with anything except Kamui. And again every other single time it was used, it barely went into what it hit. It's low end feats far out number the high end feats.



> Hashirama's Wood Clones were so weak that Madara defeated them while sitting on his ass.



Madara was using susanoo. That doesn't make them any less durable then the real body. Tsunade busted ribcage susanoo so do you think Madara is stronger and can take that punch with his real body and tank it? 



> Good thing Kishi is inconsistent with Amaterasu, since we saw it make Hachibi and the Juubi cry, One-Shotting Cerberus and make Ei chop his arm.



It was on Naruto's arm and didn't even burn him before he got it off.



> Also the Magatama used against Tsunade is far weaker than the one used against Onoki + Ei.



How? It's the same magatama.


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## Veracity (Nov 9, 2014)

Tsuande obliterating a wood clone changes nothing. A wood clone is just as durable as the original. In this is a strength contest sooo?

Also comparing Yasaka to an explosive tag is the most ridiculous could thing I've ever heard.


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## Hachibi (Nov 9, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Was his body in 100% contact? Yes. Was Madara's? No. Tsunade and Sakura have put out more damage than Susanoo has UP TO PERFECT Susanoo.



Only his left side was hitted, different than the Tsunade thing.



> LOL. We saw a arrow go through Danzo and then him reset. Damage is still done.



If Danzo wasn't injured he wouldn't izanagi'd anyways. Saying otherwise is retarded.



> Kakashi wasn't fast enough to react with anything except Kamui. And again every other single time it was used, it barely went into what it hit. It's low end feats far out number the high end feats.



I can also said that it chopped a montain-sized branch, destroyed a part of the Gudodama along with a Bijuudama and destroyed three of Naruto's Gudodama.



> Madara was using susanoo. That doesn't make them any less durable then the real body. Tsunade busted ribcage susanoo so do you think Madara is stronger and can take that punch with his real body and tank it?



And? Doesn't refut Hashirama's clones' performance.



> It was on Naruto's arm and didn't even burn him before he got it off.



It never touched Naruto. Kyuubi Shroud protected him. So irrevelant.



> How? It's the same magatama.



It's far smaller in size. How could you compare that?


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## IchLiebe (Nov 9, 2014)

Hachibi said:


> Only his left side was hitted, different than the Tsunade thing.



That's the weakest argument I've ever heard. If Tsunade hit Madara like that, then the result would be the same.



> If Danzo wasn't injured he wouldn't izanagi'd anyways. Saying otherwise is retarded.



He izanagi'd because he didn't deactivate Izanagi. While it's active, if he takes damage then he resets. That's exactly how it was explained.



> I can also said that it chopped a montain-sized branch, destroyed a part of the Gudodama along with a Bijuudama and destroyed three of Naruto's Gudodama.



You can say any thing you want, post scans of that shit though please.



> And? Doesn't refut Hashirama's clones' performance.



I never said they were as strong as the original. They are just as durable. NOW ANSWER THIS. TSUNADE BUSTED RIBCAGE SUSANOO, DO YOU THINK MADARA WITH HIS REAL BODY CAN TANK THAT SAME HIT? No other bullshit or anything, just answer it.



> It never touched Naruto. Kyuubi Shroud protected him. So irrevelant.



It did, Naruto used the shroud to throw it off of him.



> It's far smaller in size. How could you compare that?



I can say it because of this. As well as what it did to Tsunade. Most showings it had, it was exploding tag level. Madara's first use was the only time it was good.


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## Hachibi (Nov 9, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> That's the weakest argument I've ever heard. If Tsunade hit Madara like that, then the result would be the same.



Except, you know, Susano take the hit for him



> He izanagi'd because he didn't deactivate Izanagi. While it's active, if he takes damage then he resets. That's exactly how it was explained.



Then why he didn't move?



> You can say any thing you want, post scans of that shit though please.



Chopping the God Tree's Root.

Destroying a part of Juubito's Gudodama with Naruto

Stalemating Naruto's Gudodama





> I never said they were as strong as the original. They are just as durable. NOW ANSWER THIS. TSUNADE BUSTED RIBCAGE SUSANOO, DO YOU THINK MADARA WITH HIS REAL BODY CAN TANK THAT SAME HIT? No other bullshit or anything, just answer it.



No, but how does this is revelant to Susano.



> It did, Naruto used the shroud to throw it off of him.



Nope




> I can say it because of this. As well as what it did to Tsunade. Most showings it had, it was exploding tag level. Madara's first use was the only time it was good.



Stupid logic is stupid. So a wooden arrow would do the same shit Sasuke's Susano's Arrow would do?


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## IchLiebe (Nov 9, 2014)

Hachibi said:


> Except, you know, Susano take the hit for him


.



> Then why he didn't move?



IDK, what I do know is he didn't have half his body blown away.



> Chopping the God Tree's Root.
> 
> Destroying a part of Juubito's Gudodama with Naruto
> 
> Stalemating Naruto's Gudodama



So you so me Sasuke with Kyuubi Shroud cutting a branch, Sasuke with Kyuubi shroud powered by Kyuubi shroud Juugo's senjutsu using an arrow, and SoT6P chakra enhanced Sasuke shooting arrows. All are significantly stronger than plain (E)MS Sasuke with a non powered up Susanoo.




> No, but how does this is revelant to Susano.



Because Susanoo punched Mei and she lived, Susanoo punched Danzo and we saw no damage to him, Tsunade punched Madara and blew half of his body away.



> Nope



I don't see a shroud in the bottom right panel and everytime a shroud is used it comes across the whole body at the same time.




> Stupid logic is stupid. So a wooden arrow would do the same shit Sasuke's Susano's Arrow would do?



No, But Sasuke's susanoo arrow isn't as strong as people think.


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## LostSelf (Nov 9, 2014)

> Four-Tailed Naruto


Four tailed Naruto created a gigantic shocwave with a simple arm swing. I am not sure if Susano'o can wrestle it. It has size on it's advantage, but physically abusing of Danzo is not enough to fully convince me. Danzo wasn't particulary durable to begin with.



> Fourth Raikage Ay



Ei was blocking Susano'o blades with his hands. But that probably might not be enough for him to 
win in an arm wrestling contest.



> Butterfly Mode Choji



Butterfly Chouji should have enough strenght to lift Susano'o and throw it away. Arm to arm and i am not sure. But, if i am not mistaken, he blocked a Gedo Mazo hit. If that's true, then he should dominate Susano'o.



> Sage Naruto



Sage Naruto stopped a gigantic Rhyno and then tossed it pretty high with minimal effort. Susano'o hasn't shown anything comparable to that.



> Six-Tailed Naruto



Six Tailed Naruto should dominate if in arm-strenght. It was able to resist Shinra Tensei, even though we don't know how powerful that ST was.



> Third Raikage Ay



Not sure, actually. My memory is hazed.


> Tsunade



Tsunade totally dominates Susano'o.


> Kurama-enhanced enlarged Choji



Kurama's chakra gave Hiashi the ability to stop a Juubi's large arm and it enhanced Lee enough to be able to cut people in half with his kicks. Kurama enlarged Chouji should dominate Susano'o without much troubles.


> Eight-Tails



Perfect Susano'o is needed to wrestle the Hachibi. Or at least, Sasuke's Bijuu sized.



> 100% Kurama



No comments



> Tailed Beast Mode Naruto (avatar)



BM Naruto? He should defeat Susano'o if he has his fox avatar.


> Tailed Beast Sage Mode Naruto



Naruto should defeat it.


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 9, 2014)

Hachibi said:


> Where does the Susano downplay come form?



I don't even bother debating it at this point,the manga has gone out its way to show us that susano is comparable to the biju, if Kishi's explanation isn't good enough then certainly ours won't be


The shyt cleave threw mountains pretty effortlessly but people still doubt susano for some reason


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## IchLiebe (Nov 9, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> I don't even bother debating it at this point,the manga has gone out its way to show us that susano is comparable to the biju, if Kishi's explanation isn't good enough then certainly ours won't be
> 
> 
> The shyt cleave threw mountains pretty effortlessly but people still doubt susano for some reason



Perfect Susanoo was said to rival bijuu's. Everything below had no hype as such. And guess what Gamabunta fought 1tails in a good battle and even crippled it. So perfect susanoo is on Gama's level, WOW.


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 9, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Perfect Susanoo was said to rival bijuu's. Everything below had no hype as such. And guess what Gamabunta fought 1tails in a good battle and even crippled it. So perfect susanoo is on Gama's level, WOW.






Please tell me your trolling???


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## Veracity (Nov 9, 2014)

Perfect Sussano rivals Kurama. I don't know how obvious that could have been if  we take into consideration that as far as we are concerned the Kyuubi is the only Bjuii Madara has been in contact with.


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 9, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> Perfect Sussano rivals Kurama. I don't know how obvious that could have been if take into consideration that as far as we are concerned the Kyuubi is the only Bjuii Madara has been in contact with.



But you ain't here ?? Ps is gammabunta level


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## IchLiebe (Nov 9, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> Please tell me your trolling???



Nope, it's all in the manga. PS had that hype. Below that stage it does not and we all know PS>>>>>>>Final stage susanoo.


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 9, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Nope, it's all in the manga. PS had that hype. Below that stage it does not and we all know PS>>>>>>>Final stage susanoo.



Your attempts to downplay itachi sad.




Madara clearly meant ps rivals kurama as that's the only biju he has come into contact with.


We can't cannot scale ps to gammabunta based on your misinterpretation of madara's statement.

There are diff forms of tailed beast as there are different versions of susano  but keep trolling tho


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## IchLiebe (Nov 9, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> Your attempts to downplay itachi sad.
> 
> Madara clearly meant ps rivals kurama as that's the only biju he has come into contact with.
> 
> ...



If Madara meant Kyuubi then he would've said Kyuubi as it's the strongest bijuu. He said tailed beasts. You can't just assume high end especially when he knew of all the bijuu as his Ifinite tsukiyomi plan.

Madara's PS=bijuu level
Gamabunta beat a bijuu=bijuu level Also remember when Obito attacked the village Minato summoned Gamabunta to hold Kurama down while he prepared a jutsu. 

I'm not saying Gamabunta beats PS but Hiruzen and Hashirama are both Kage level nin and Hashi still soundly wins that. Susanoo has never been hyped to be on the level of any bijuu outside of Perfect susanoo and it's feats back that up.


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 9, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> If Madara meant Kyuubi then he would've said Kyuubi as it's the strongest bijuu. He said tailed beasts. You can't just assume high end especially when he knew of all the bijuu as his Ifinite tsukiyomi plan.
> 
> Madara's PS=bijuu level
> Gamabunta beat a bijuu=bijuu level Also remember when Obito attacked the village Minato summoned Gamabunta to hold Kurama down while he prepared a jutsu.
> ...



So I can't assume high end but you get to just assume low end    makes sense.


I'm basing my assumption off of what tailed beast madara has come into contact with, your basing your assumption off of nothing.





If you really believe the nonsense your spouting make a ps vs gammabunta thread and the responses will tell you if there comparable in power.

Hiruzen is low Kage hashi is high kage

Shukaku is the weakest biju while kurama is the strongest

Just because there both biju or both kage don't mean they have comparable power.




The manga has made it pretty clear what ps is comparable to if you wanna single out one statement that your not even interpreting correctly be my guess we might as we'll take every statement literally and not use context behind it so fuk it, itachi is invincible the manga said so, if he wasn't the manga wouldn't have stated it


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## IchLiebe (Nov 9, 2014)

I'm not saying PS wouldn't beat Gamabunta. HOWEVER, nothing puts Amored Susanoo and below on Shukaku's level. Name one feat that shows it's bijuu level like Gama and PS.


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 9, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> I'm not saying PS wouldn't beat Gamabunta. HOWEVER, nothing puts Amored Susanoo and below on Shukaku's level. Name one feat that shows it's bijuu level like Gama and PS.



 

It manhandled hydra with minimal difficulty you seriously believe gammabunta and Shukaku are above v4 susano???

Even if we scale it  you really think susano is gonna go from being kurama level to being weaker then shukaku  just from downgrading 1 level???




Make the threads if you really believe what your saying v4 stomps them both with minimal difficulty


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## IchLiebe (Nov 9, 2014)

You can make the threads. Hydra wasn't shown to be anything that great. V4 would have tremendous problems with Gamabunta and Shukaku. Son Goku would fucking wreck v4 susanoo.


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 9, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> You can make the threads. Hydra wasn't shown to be anything that great. V4 would have tremendous problems with Gamabunta and Shukaku. Son Goku would fucking wreck v4 susanoo.



It's pointless your the only person in the battle dome who believes this.


Manda was handling Katsuya and gammabunta at the same time, hydra seem's extremely bigger I'm going to say at the very least it should be gammabunta level and v4 beat it with no difficulty.


The ape would lose to v4 under fair circumstances.


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## IchLiebe (Nov 10, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> It's pointless your the only person in the battle dome who believes this.



And there was point in time were everyone thought the Earth was flat.



> Manda was handling Katsuya and gammabunta at the same time, hydra seem's extremely bigger I'm going to say at the very least it should be gammabunta level and v4 beat it with no difficulty.
> 
> 
> The ape would lose to v4 under fair circumstances.



"SEEMS". You think it's stronger than it when it has no feats. And Manda is a summon Orochimaru can't even control. I put it in bijuu level category. And BIG means shit. Ei is bigger than Naruto yet Naruto is faster and stronger.

Goku would fucking smash V4 Susanoo like a banana.


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## Icegaze (Nov 10, 2014)

hahaha ichi efforts are epic 
hydra was said to be the strongest snake making him superior to manda 
manda and gamabunta are equal 
hydra was trolled by ssuanoo sooo quick 
lol ur such a troll!!!
V4 susnaoo casually dismantles gamabunta 
first strike gamabunta collapses

did itachi touch u in an inappropriate way?? you are trying too hard

before arguing read Db entry for hydra please

 i cannot believe he isnt getting banned for this nonesense 
imagine putting gamabunta in the same register as PS 
PS mere presence kills gamabunta
unless you think gamabunta>>>>>>gokage please make the thread and get banned for pure stupidity


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## IchLiebe (Nov 10, 2014)

The databook says amaterasu is as hot as the sun, and susanoo is invincible. So I wouldn't put everything in that. Feats>>>>Statements. V4 Susanoo has poor feats, definitely not bijuu level.


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## Icegaze (Nov 10, 2014)

yh susanoo has no feats but beating orochimaru strongest techique in 1 panel 
yup sure its a shit feat 
raikiri only by DB is described different from chidori so why u believe its stronger when in the manga both names are interchanged. biased much  

gamabunta has poor feats not bijuu level either, it ddint stop from spouting BS

susanoo is an uchiha strongest jutsu to think its weak is you being stupid simply put 

i dont see how 1 panelling orochimaru strongest tech is a poor feat. go on downplay a technique described as orochimaru best technique. 

i guess all the piercing feats of raiden is what leads you to believe it can cut through susanoo  

your troll level is epic.


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## IchLiebe (Nov 10, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> yh susanoo has no feats but beating orochimaru strongest techique in 1 panel
> yup sure its a shit feat
> raikiri only by DB is described different from chidori so why u believe its stronger when in the manga both names are interchanged. biased much



He sealed it with totsuka, take that away and it didn't do much to it. He cut it's heads off when they weren't as fast as Manda and can probably regenerate. 



> gamabunta has poor feats not bijuu level either, it ddint stop from spouting BS



Except fighting bijuu and actively beating one LOL.



> susanoo is an uchiha strongest jutsu to think its weak is you being stupid simply put



And most are weak jutsu. Perfect susanoo is, by most people, standards to be Kurama level. V4 is considerably smaller and weaker and has shown NOTHING to put it at the level of a bijuu. Tsunade and Ei cracked ribcage, Danzo's fuuton busted a hole in v3 susanoo. Yet v4 is on the level of Son Goku, Ichibi, etc? Fuck no. They would fodder stomp v3 susanoo and wreck v4.



> i dont see how 1 panelling orochimaru strongest tech is a poor feat. go on downplay a technique described as orochimaru best technique.



It was damn near a whole chapter. And Itachi didn't beat it, he sealed it with Totsuka which Madara's and Sasuke's v4 doesn't have.



> i guess all the piercing feats of raiden is what leads you to believe it can cut through susanoo
> 
> your troll level is epic.



Raiden cut through v2 jins, susanoo has no such feat. Susanoo hasn't done much.

And I'm not trolling, everything I say has manga fact behind it. You just on Uchiha's nuts and think Susanoo is as good as it was hyped.


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## Icegaze (Nov 10, 2014)

wait v2 jin have tanking feats?? since when 
or u mean kn4 who tanked kusanagi which u cant use for other since kurama>>>>>>>>>>>>>every other jin 
then again kusanagi is featless in itself so that isnt even much of a feat 

all gokage bar onoki coudlnt do shit to V3 susanoo so i dunno what shit you are spouting 

minato cant do shit to V4 susnaoo in terms of damage despite all his hype 

raiden is featless it cut through a featless cloak 

sealing it is the same as defeating it. unless you mean to say kamui isnt defeating an enemy when kakashi wraps him whole. since u noe he isnt dead he is just in another dimension. would you say kakashi didnt defeat said enemy?? go on talk biased child

hahaha tskuyomi is a weak jutsu?? loooool it did floor kakashi dont forget. was hyped by danzo and lastly used to break genjutsu from tayuya 
amaterasu still burnt a person in half most jjutsu dont even have comparable feats. raiden hasnt done shit to anyone at all. i guess by ichi standards it must be weak then 

 susanoo is weak 
defo itachi touched u as a kid. cuz something wrong with u


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 10, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> And there was point in time were everyone thought the Earth was flat.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



  

The databook already stated it's  oro's strongest snake, manda manhandled gamabunta when gama had back up.

Reread the manga before you debate me bro you just sound desperate and im just poking you're dead body with a stick at this point.

When we lack feats for something we refer to the databook, you can't  compare hyperbole to the databook declaring what's oro's strongest technique please try to troll harder.

ck


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## IchLiebe (Nov 10, 2014)

V4 didn't beat the hydra, TOTSUKA DID. Take away that and see how things go. 

Manda didn't do shit to anyone. Katsuya outplayed him completely, and Gamabunta dodged every attack and blocked them. Manda's the one who ended up with Bunta's sword through his mouth.


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 10, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> V4 didn't beat the hydra, TOTSUKA DID. Take away that and see how things go.
> 
> Manda didn't do shit to anyone. Katsuya outplayed him completely, and Gamabunta dodged every attack and blocked them. Manda's the one who ended up with Bunta's sword through his mouth.



Seriously liebe? tobirama didn't defeat izuna his kunai did ck



I really need to know what manga you read bruh?

Manda was pressuring both gamabunta and katsuya despite it being 2 on 1

Manda only ended up with buntas sword in his mouth because of Tsunade your seriously losing it bruh  it's ok to bow out and gracefully take the L


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## IchLiebe (Nov 10, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> Seriously liebe? tobirama didn't defeat izuna his kunai did ck



Totsuka is a legendary weapon that only Itachi's susanoo has. Sasuke's and Madara's don't. Hence, v4 susanoo didn't beat Hydra. Same way you don't say base Sasuke beat kn1 Naruto in VoTE.



> I really need to know what manga you read bruh?
> 
> Manda was pressuring both gamabunta and katsuya despite it being 2 on 1



Not really, Katsuya was never really in danger. And Tsunade interfered before we saw wether or not Gamabunta was going to block the last attack.

How it literally happened.
Katsuya spit acid. Manda dodged and wrapped around her. She countered by turning into small pieces. Gamabunta attacks. Manda catches the sword and throws it at Gamabunta. Bunta dodged. Then Jiraiya wanted to do a fire jutsu and gave Manda a chance for a sneak attack underground. Bunta blocked the first hit and was turning to block the second when Tsunade stepped in.



> Manda only ended up with buntas sword in his mouth because of Tsunade your seriously losing it bruh  it's ok to bow out and gracefully take the L



Yep. And Hydra only lost because of the legendary weapon Totsuka, not because Susanoo was strong.


----------



## ATastyMuffin (Nov 11, 2014)

Bkprince33, if you would, show us a reasonable impressive strength feat on account of Susanoo that _isn't_ the Perfect/Final stage of Madara's, or isn't *vastly* enhanced *well* over the factor of three times with Naruto and Minato's combined chakra cloak.

Otherwise, you're going to have to concede to Four-Tails beating the shit out of Itachi and Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan Sasuke's final Susanoo in a pure physical altercation.

Heck, there's zero strength feats that put them over fucking *Sage Naruto*. Tailed Beasts? You have to be kidding.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 11, 2014)

Itachi's V2 Susano'o was able to Karatechop Nagato's mechanical arms, one of which was strong enough to easily restrain Kirabi. Sasuke's V2 was able to liquify Danzo by squeezing him. 

We don't know about his lifting strength, but it should have pretty decent striking power. With that said, I don't think it is on par with the heaviest hitters likeTsunade and others on and above her ballpark.

Edit : I think Kn4's shockwaves are over exaggerated for narrative purposes. Because Tsunade doesn't create shockwaves, so does Naruto in BM.



ATastyMuffin said:


> Bkprince33, if you would, show us a reasonable impressive strength feat on account of Susanoo that _isn't_ the Perfect/Final stage of Madara's, or isn't *vastly* enhanced *well* over the factor of three times with Naruto and Minato's combined chakra cloak.
> 
> Otherwise, you're going to have to concede to Four-Tails beating the shit out of Itachi and Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan Sasuke's final Susanoo in a pure physical altercation.
> 
> Heck, there's zero strength feats that put them over fucking *Sage Naruto*. Tailed Beasts? You have to be kidding.



What is the best striking feat of Sage Naruto?


----------



## Bkprince33 (Nov 11, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Totsuka is a legendary weapon that only Itachi's susanoo has. Sasuke's and Madara's don't. Hence, v4 susanoo didn't beat Hydra. Same way you don't say base Sasuke beat kn1 Naruto in VoTE.



It's still a very poor argument, its like me saying whoever orochimaru beats with the sword of kusanagi doesn't count because it's a legendary weapon.


if your going to apply such a standard you have to apply that standard to every character in the manga.

kakashi never beat anybody by this logic, obito's eye did.


when kakashi had access to the legendary sage chakra i never once heard you impose such a standard 





IchLiebe said:


> Not really, Katsuya was never really in danger. And Tsunade interfered before we saw wether or not Gamabunta was going to block the last attack.



the point is he shouldn't had been able to put them in a compromising position in the first place it was 2 against 1



IchLiebe said:


> How it literally happened.
> Katsuya spit acid. Manda dodged and wrapped around her. She countered by turning into small pieces. Gamabunta attacks. Manda catches the sword and throws it at Gamabunta. Bunta dodged. Then Jiraiya wanted to do a fire jutsu and gave Manda a chance for a sneak attack underground. Bunta blocked the first hit and was turning to block the second when Tsunade stepped in.



so we gonna act like this didn't happen?

*whose speed also managed to bypass edo madaras precog, * 

this also shows clearly if tsunade didn't step in gammabunta would of lost

*whose speed also managed to bypass edo madaras precog, *




IchLiebe said:


> Yep. And Hydra only lost because of the legendary weapon Totsuka, not because Susanoo was strong .



whatever makes you sleep at night bruh lol

fact is the featless hydra wasn't doing shyt to susano to begin with, susano by itself has excellent durability feats.




ATastyMuffin said:


> Bkprince33, if you would, show us a reasonable impressive strength feat on account of Susanoo that _isn't_ the Perfect/Final stage of Madara's, or isn't *vastly* enhanced *well* over the factor of three times with Naruto and Minato's combined chakra cloak.
> 
> Otherwise, you're going to have to concede to Four-Tails beating the shit out of Itachi and Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan Sasuke's final Susanoo in a pure physical altercation.
> 
> Heck, there's zero strength feats that put them over fucking *Sage Naruto*. Tailed Beasts? You have to be kidding.



if his head jerked back from orochimaru punching him

*whose speed also managed to bypass edo madaras precog, *


susano punches his fucking head off


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## IchLiebe (Nov 11, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> It's still a very poor argument, its like me saying whoever orochimaru beats with the sword of kusanagi doesn't count because it's a legendary weapon.
> 
> if your going to apply such a standard you have to apply that standard to every character in the manga.
> 
> ...



Quit acting fucking stupid. I'm not saying ITACHI didn't win, HE did. HOWEVER, v4 susanoo did not. It needed something extra, TOTSUKA. Same way you can't say Base Itachi beats this person, if he uses MS. If he uses MS then it's not his base. Same way v4 with Yata Mirror, and Totsuka is stronger than normal v4.



> the point is he shouldn't had been able to put them in a compromising position in the first place it was 2 against 1



He was faster and got a chance to do a sneak attack underground. Are you trying to say Bunta beating One Tails makes him not bijuu level because Manda can hold his ground? If so that's fucking retarded. Manda is bijuu level too. These are the Sannin's boss summons.



> so we gonna act like this didn't happen?
> 
> *whose speed also managed to bypass edo madaras precog, *
> 
> ...



Gamabunta clearly had time to dodge, if Tsunade could pick up a sword jump hundreds of meters and put it through Manda's head before he could finish the attack.




> whatever makes you sleep at night bruh lol
> 
> fact is the featless hydra wasn't doing shyt to susano to begin with, susano by itself has excellent durability feats.



Exactly, FEATLESS. So we don't know how strong it is or anything. Susanoo by itself gets manhandled by Tsunade, Danzo's fuuton broke through it and created an opening.




> if his head jerked back from orochimaru punching him
> 
> *whose speed also managed to bypass edo madaras precog, *
> 
> susano punches his fucking head off



I wouldn't say that, Orochimaru can put out some damage taijutsu wise.


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## Hachibi (Nov 11, 2014)

Wait, are you using Gamabunta vs Shukaku to say that the former is bijuu-level when the latter was toying with him?


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## IchLiebe (Nov 11, 2014)

I would love to see Shukaku playing with him.


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## Hachibi (Nov 11, 2014)

Sure. I mean Shukaku clearly used Sand,Magnetism and Bijuudama against him. He didn't in no way spam a Futon technique that would hvae two-shotted Gamabunta.


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## IchLiebe (Nov 11, 2014)

In Gamabunta's FIRST move he cut off Shukaku's arm. He came out bloodlusted saying how he was finally going to kill somebody. The fuuton that Shukaku landed, Gamabunta tanked and it hit him right in the chin.


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## Icegaze (Nov 11, 2014)

lol shukaku is sand not like cutting its arm of is a definitive injury 
wanna know what is?? totsuka sealing 
your desperate 
please make the gamabunta vs susanoo thread both PS and complete since you foolishly compared gamabunta to both


----------



## Hachibi (Nov 11, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> In Gamabunta's FIRST move he cut off Shukaku's arm. He came out bloodlusted saying how he was finally going to kill somebody. The fuuton that Shukaku landed, Gamabunta tanked and it hit him right in the chin.



You mean a arm that didn't both bother Shukaku in the slightest and was made out of sand, you know, something that can be reattached and cut with ease.

Gamabunta didn't tank that shit since he said that he doubt that he can take another. There's a reason why he decided to wake up Gaara instead of fighting Shukaku head on because he knew both him and Naruto wouldn't come out of this alive.


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 11, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Quit acting fucking stupid. I'm not saying ITACHI didn't win, HE did. HOWEVER, v4 susanoo did not. It needed something extra, TOTSUKA. Same way you can't say Base Itachi beats this person, if he uses MS. If he uses MS then it's not his base. Same way v4 with Yata Mirror, and Totsuka is stronger than normal v4.



 your only getting frustrated because i turned your own argument against you.



totsuka and yata is a part of itachi's arsenal regardless of it's legendary status

Kusanagi is apart of orochimaru's arsenal regardless of it's legendary status

Sage chakra is apart of DMS kakashi's arsenal regardless of it's legendary status

Kyubi is apart of VOTE Madara's arsenal regardless of it's legendary status



You specifically said totsuka beat hydra not itachi, don't back track now because you got exposed son 



if you wan't to say in relation to this thread, susano's physical strength didn't defeat hydra, totsuka sealing did, then it's alot more understanding then saying itachi didn't beat hydra.



IchLiebe said:


> He was faster and got a chance to do a sneak attack underground. Are you trying to say Bunta beating One Tails makes him not bijuu level because Manda can hold his ground? If so that's fucking retarded. Manda is bijuu level too. These are the Sannin's boss summons.



spare me being faster is apart of his abilities and so is borrowing underground, nobody said shyt when naruto came from underground and hit both sasuke and neji with a ShinShoryuken 

and don't you always praise kakashi for going underground using doton? why is it only a sneak attack when manda does it? 



No no no where gonna get this straight now.

You asserted V4 susano was not biju level, and then you boasted how gamabunta was biju level because he held his own against shukaku.

I then explained hydra was orochimaru's strongest snake and V4 susano beat it with minimal difficulty.



Manda also had the upper hand while fighting gammabunta, so if gammabunta is biju level by your own standards we have to conclude manda is bijuu level as well.

if hydra is said to be stronger then manda, then that would make yata biju level as well follow me so far???


and if V4 destroyed hydra with ease by your own standards how can you say v4 is not bijuu level??? ck





IchLiebe said:


> Gamabunta clearly had time to dodge, if Tsunade could pick up a sword jump hundreds of meters and put it through Manda's head before he could finish the attack.



1.it was off panel when tsunade picked up the sword and jumped 

2. neither gammabunta nor manda was paying attention to tsunade, 

3. the panel tells a different story, you yourself said manda is faster, so show me the panel indicating that gammabunta had time or was about to dodge don't worry ima sip this tea while i wait








IchLiebe said:


> Exactly, FEATLESS. So we don't know how strong it is or anything. Susanoo by itself gets manhandled by Tsunade, Danzo's fuuton broke through it and created an opening.




If we don't have feats we refer to the datebook, while it is featless the data book declared it orochimaru's strongest summon, no reason to claim the datebook is incorrect in this situation.

shyt 100% katsuya is featless but i don't here anybody doubting she's stronger then the one tsunade summons.

if we follow trend the boss summons are not even the sannins strongest summons.

100% katsuya

ma and pa

hydra 

those are the strongest summons


if rib cage susano held it's on against raikage in terms of durability, i would wager v4 would do fine against tsunade.



IchLiebe said:


> I wouldn't say that, Orochimaru can put out some damage taijutsu wise.





ck   

 why doesn't this surprise me? so your really going to act like orochimaru's punch is in the same ball park as a Susano punch??


----------



## IchLiebe (Nov 11, 2014)

Simple facts.

V4 did not beat Hydra. Totsuka did. Yes Totsuka in apart of ITachi's v4 but v4 susanoo as a jutsu meaning Madara and Sasuke's v4 susanoo does not have it and it does a boost like KCM. You can't say Base Naruto wins a fight if he uses KCM.

Gamabunta cut off Shukaku's arm. He took a direct hit and showed little injuries. He dodged and even countered Shukaku's jutsu. He's bijuu level even if it's low end.

Perfect susanoo is hyped to be bijuu level. v4 SUsanoo is not.


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 11, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Simple facts.
> 
> V4 did not beat Hydra. Totsuka did. Yes Totsuka in apart of ITachi's v4 but v4 susanoo as a jutsu meaning Madara and Sasuke's v4 susanoo does not have it and it does a boost like KCM. You can't say Base Naruto wins a fight if he uses KCM.
> 
> ...



Well i guess you learn something new everyday, apparently totsuka swung itself and cut hydras heads off ck


Totsuka is a weapon not a form so your  base example makes no sense and i already killed this arguement in my last post.


Hydra is above gamabunta and v4 beat it with no difficulty by your standards v4 should be biju level


Gamabunta was never hyped to be biju level either yet you use feats to justify him being biju level

But when it comes to itachi you want to impliment a hype only policy 

Why can't  we  use feats to justify v4 being biju level, it no diff a summon that's above bunta


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## IchLiebe (Nov 11, 2014)

I'm sorry you can't comprehend simple things. Saying that totsuka can be used in v2 susanoo it's not apart of v4 susanoo therefor it's not V4 SUSANOO.


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 11, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> I'm sorry you can't comprehend simple things. Saying that totsuka can be used in v2 susanoo it's not apart of v4 susanoo therefor it's not V4 SUSANOO.



Im sorry your  hate for a fictional character has made you resort to such petty and irrelevant statements         ck



Totsuka is apart of itachi's arsenal, it's not a indivisual  entitiy, totsuka can't swing itself.


Hydra lost to a v4 susano wielding totsuka and yata, not the sword itself.



When we debate kisame and his feats you don't hear anybody saying samhada captured the bijuu  


When we debate with sasuke.and we bring up feats, you don't see anybody going the kusanagi soloed 1000 fodder.   


When we debate with diedara you don't here us saying.    Explosive clay beat garra. 


When we debate with madara you don't here us saying,  the gunbai soloed.


When we debate with garra you don't here us sayin, man rock lee got beat by floating sand. 


Do you now understand how non sensical your arguement is???


----------



## IchLiebe (Nov 11, 2014)

LISTEN AND DON'T GO OFF LIKE A RETARD.

You got v4 susanoo WITH Totsuka. It beats Hydra. I AGREE. HOWEVER, take away totsuka and what then? Because that is v4 susanoo. Does Sasuke's and Madara's have Totsuka? No. WHY? Because Totsuka ISN'T v4 susanoo.


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 11, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> LISTEN AND DON'T GO OFF LIKE A RETARD.
> 
> You got v4 susanoo WITH Totsuka. It beats Hydra. I AGREE. HOWEVER, take away totsuka and what then? Because that is v4 susanoo. Does Sasuke's and Madara's have Totsuka? No. WHY? Because Totsuka ISN'T v4 susanoo.






typing in all caps won't get your point across any better 



Ok bro but that's not what you said, you said "totsuka" beat hydra, but in typical liebe fashion you will now backtrack instead of conceding after being proven wrong  


never once did i say totsuka = v4

i said itachi while using v4 beat hydra, if you wan't to say v4 wielding totsuka beat hydra that's kool bro do whatever you have to do for your damage control.



the fact that itachi's v4 comes with legendary weapons does't discredit the feat so idk what you hope to gain by pointing it out.





so to kill your argument , i mean clarify excuse me ,  itachi's v4 wielding yata and totsuka are bijuu level right leibe?


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## IchLiebe (Nov 11, 2014)

It does, it means v4 susanoo has never beat Hydra. We don't know what would've happened if Totsuka, something that isn't v4 susanoo, didn't seal it. Therefor v4 susanoo has not beaten Hydra, Itachi did. Same way Base Sasuke didn't beat Danzo.


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 11, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> It does, it means v4 susanoo has never beat Hydra. We don't know what would've happened if Totsuka, something that isn't v4 susanoo, didn't seal it. Therefor v4 susanoo has not beaten Hydra, Itachi did. Same way Base Sasuke didn't beat Danzo.



ok bro so itachi is biju level i can live with that, tho i didn't see any panels of itachi wielding totsuka without susano but none the less.


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## ATastyMuffin (Nov 15, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Itachi's V2 Susano'o was able to Karatechop Nagato's mechanical arms, one of which was strong enough to easily restrain Kirabi.



Killer Bee was restrained by Nagato's *robotic tentacles*, which, for all we know, could be _vastly_ more durable than his mechanical arms.

I'm really not getting why people put this feat on a pedestal considering even if Killer Bee was restrained by the mechanical arms instead of the tentacles, being physically unable to break out wouldn't make him weaker than Itachi's skeletal Susanoo in the first place, since breaking out with _sheer raw strength_ as opposed to a _concentrated strike_ are two *entirely* different things.

Base Killer Bee isn't that strong, physically anyways. And no, that outlier feat of overpowering his brother is just that, an outlier.



> Sasuke's V2 was able to liquify Danzo by squeezing him.



So? How do we compare this grip strength to other high-strength fighters? You realize that *nobody* worth mentioning has a hand quite as large as Susanoo's to test out a similar feat, yes?

Unless we're talking Tailed Beasts, in which case... lol.

You know what, Grimmjowsensei? Let's just use common sense, compare explicit, blatantly obvious panels and note that beginning-of-Part-2 Sakura > Sasuke's skeletal Susanoo in strength. 



> What is the best striking feat of Sage Naruto?



For one, kicking Deva Path so hard that the latter struggled to recover from it, despite a boss-summon-shattering Shinra Tensei prior having virtually no effect on the body. 

Or, we could bring up Sage Jiraiya's feat of kicking Human Path with such power that even after skidding on the ground and creating multiple divots, the Path still struck a boulder hard enough to yield a deep cave inside it.

That easily surpasses Ay's Elbow against Jugo, by the way. And *Sage Naruto >> Sage Jiraiya*. 

Finally, Sage Naruto at least has some of the best lifting feats and relatively impressive striking feats, the fuck does Susanoo have? 

You can't name jack shit. 



Bkprince33 said:


> if his head jerked back from orochimaru punching him
> 
> against Jugo



So what? Four-Tailed Naruto doesn't weigh any more than regular Naruto does, dude.

Orochimaru didn't hurt Naruto with that punch, at all. So what does your link even prove?


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 16, 2014)

ATastyMuffin said:


> So what? Four-Tailed Naruto doesn't weigh any more than regular Naruto does, dude.
> 
> Orochimaru didn't hurt Naruto with that punch, at all. So what does your link even prove?




Weight matters in any physical contest, if orochimaru made his head jerk back there's reason to believe susano may have caused serious injury.

since we have susano punching power confirmed to be able to kill people.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 16, 2014)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Killer Bee was restrained by Nagato's *robotic tentacles*, which, for all we know, could be _vastly_ more durable than his mechanical arms.
> 
> I'm really not getting why people put this feat on a pedestal considering even if Killer Bee was restrained by the mechanical arms instead of the tentacles, being physically unable to break out wouldn't make him weaker than Itachi's skeletal Susanoo in the first place, since breaking out with _sheer raw strength_ as opposed to a _concentrated strike_ are two *entirely* different things.
> 
> Base Killer Bee isn't that strong, physically anyways. And no, that outlier feat of overpowering his brother is just that, an outlier.


First off, every one of those robotic tentacles were torn apart by the karatechop as well as other limbs. Killer Bee was restrained

Second off, B is physically very very strong. He was able outmuscle A and Juugo. He took Juugo's punch straigth to his face without any injuries. He is a tank.




> So? How do we compare this grip strength to other high-strength fighters? You realize that *nobody* worth mentioning has a hand quite as large as Susanoo's to test out a similar feat, yes?
> 
> Unless we're talking Tailed Beasts, in which case... lol.



I don't know what you'r getting @,  liquifying someone isn't a strength feat ?



> You know what, Grimmjowsensei? Let's just use common sense, compare explicit, blatantly obvious panels and note that beginning-of-Part-2 Sakura > Sasuke's skeletal Susanoo in strength.





>



You are comparing a full powered hit to a quick jab. That doesn't mean anything.
When beginning of part 2 Sakura manages to oneshot Nagato with a hit, then you might start comparing her hits to V2 Susano'O.



> For one, kicking Deva Path so hard that the latter struggled to recover from it, despite a boss-summon-shattering Shinra Tensei prior having virtually no effect on the body.



That wasn't a boss summon shattering shinra tensei. Also the damage of shinra tensei mainly comes from the collision, not the push. I am not sure how it can be compared to a kick.



> Or, we could bring up Sage Jiraiya's feat of kicking Human Path with such power that even after skidding on the ground and creating multiple divots, the Path still struck a boulder hard enough to yield a deep cave inside it.


Yeah, and a straight kick to the face didn't even kill him. Big whoop dee doo.



> That easily surpasses Ay's Elbow against Jugo, by the way. And *Sage Naruto >> Sage Jiraiya*.


I disagree. The distance Juugo was sent flying is probably multiple times greater than the distance Jiraiya's kick sent Human realm, and Juugo, despite being in CS2 got knocked out cold. Human realm got up like a boss and kept fighting. 




> Finally, Sage Naruto at least has some of the best lifting feats and relatively impressive striking feats, the fuck does Susanoo have?


Naruto has very decent lifting feats, I never said he doesn't.
But his striking feats don't measure up to his lifting feats.
His best striking feat is that kick to Deva's stomach, and that doesn't really tell us much. 



> You can't name jack shit.


Susano'O karatechopping Nagato's limbs along with the robotic tentacles that were able to easily restrain B is a better feat than all of Sage Naruto's feats combined.
Come at me.



ATastyMuffin said:


> [
> 
> So what? Four-Tailed Naruto doesn't weigh any more than regular Naruto does, dude.
> 
> Orochimaru didn't hurt Naruto with that punch, at all. So what does your link even prove?




Thats retarded.

Kn4 Naruto is incomparably more durable and stronger than Base Naruto. His head jerking doesn't have anything to do with his weight.

We saw that B didn't even flinch when Sasuke kicked his throat and his head didn't even Jerk as much when Juugo punched him in the face. And that isn't because he is heavy


----------



## IchLiebe (Nov 16, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> First off, every one of those robotic tentacles were torn apart by the karatechop as well as other limbs. his head didn't even Jerk as much when Juugo punched him in the face



And you think Sakura's punch couldn't do the same thing to those robot tentacles? Because it would probably be worse. It would be blown to bits and pieces.



> Second off, B is physically very very strong. He was able outmuscle A and Juugo. He took Juugo's punch straigth to his face without any injuries. He is a tank.




And that means nothing here. Bee was off the ground, was completely wrapped up, and couldn't get leverage for any real strength. Do you think in v1 that would've been the same thing? I wouldn't say Base Bee is v3 susanoo level in strength (although he could definitely tank several hit, just can't put it out physically) but v1 Bee>>>>>Susanoo in strength. 




> I don't know what you'r getting @,  liquifying someone isn't a strength feat ?



If Sakura, Gai, Ei had a hand as big as susanoo they could easily do it is what he is saying. And I agree. Tsunade punched Madara and blew away half his body. That basically says everything.



> You are comparing a full powered hit to a quick jab. That doesn't mean anything.
> When beginning of part 2 Sakura manages to oneshot Nagato with a hit, then you might start comparing her hits to V2 Susano'O.



HAHAHAHAHA. Yeah, Bloodlusted Sasuke used a quick jab with no power behind it HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Start pulling some feats out, show me some of these amazing strength feats.



> That wasn't a boss summon shattering shinra tensei. Also the damage of shinra tensei mainly comes from the collision, not the push. I am not sure how it can be compared to a kick.



Look at the collision of that ST, way bigger than what a v3 susanoo has been able to put out. And it's not from when ST was used, it was from Deva hitting the ground.



> Yeah, and a straight kick to the face didn't even kill him. Big whoop dee doo.



Look at Deva's durability feats. It's not a knock on SM Naruto's power at all. Naruto didn't even touch Human (?) realm and broke his neck.




> Susano'O karatechopping Nagato's limbs along with the robotic tentacles that were able to easily restrain B is a better feat than all of Sage Naruto's feats combined.
> Come at me.



Bee was restrained. Do you know what that means? It means you can't gain any leverage to do anything. It takes away a significant portion of your strength.

I just want to know what Susanoo has done to put it in the same league as Juugo [1], 3 tailed v1 Killer Bee, Sakura [1], Tsunade (Not posting the feats as everyone knows. Blew away half of Madara's body, busted ribcage susanoo), Ei (wall busting, what he did to Juugo, Liger bomb), Might Gai (do I even need to explain), etc. 

I don't think v3 susanoo can put out of physical damage to bust ribcage susanoo. I'm sure Sasuke's arrow "might" be able to. But I don't think it could punch ribcage and bust it like the others.


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## IchLiebe (Nov 16, 2014)

Orochimaru isn't weak physically so I don't see what that means. He also tossed KN4 hundreds of meteres with his neck muscles. I'm not saying he can put out anything like Sakura or Juugo, but he is way stronger than Sasuke.


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 17, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Orochimaru isn't weak physically so I don't see what that means. He also tossed KN4 hundreds of meteres with his neck muscles. I'm not saying he can put out anything like Sakura or Juugo, but he is way stronger than Sasuke.



So show me scans of orochimaru punching someone and killing them ck


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## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 17, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> And you think Sakura's punch couldn't do the same thing to those robot tentacles? Because it would probably be worse. It would be blown to bits and pieces.


I don't know really. Early part 2 Sakura's best punching feat is destroying Hiruko. 
I am not sure if it could destroy Asura.




> And that means nothing here. Bee was off the ground, was completely wrapped up, and couldn't get leverage for any real strength. Do you think in v1 that would've been the same thing? I wouldn't say Base Bee is v3 susanoo level in strength (although he could definitely tank several hit, just can't put it out physically) but v1 Bee>>>>>Susanoo in strength.


So you'r saying that someone weaker than you can grab  your arms and restrain you, and you can't fight back ?



> If Sakura, Gai, Ei had a hand as big as susanoo they could easily do it is what he is saying. And I agree. Tsunade punched Madara and blew away half his body. That basically says everything.


Madara was a Mokuton bunshin. 
And those people you mentioned are already the hardest hitters in the game. Susano'o being in their ballpark isn't a bad thing. It is the contrary.




> HAHAHAHAHA. Yeah, Bloodlusted Sasuke used a quick jab with no power behind it HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Start pulling some feats out, show me some of these amazing strength feats.


Being bloodlusted had nothing to do with it. Danzo appeared behind him and Sasuke reflexively hit him. It was a quick jab.



> Look at the collision of that ST, way bigger than what a v3 susanoo has been able to put out. And it's not from when ST was used, it was from Deva hitting the ground.


Humanids don't suffer much damage from falling down. 
Also that was mostly debris flying around. The damage on the ground wasn't that big of a deal : wrapped up




> Look at Deva's durability feats. It's not a knock on SM Naruto's power at all. Naruto didn't even touch Human (?) realm and broke his neck.


I don't know what you'r talking about here.

But I'd assume Juugo's strength and durability is much higher than Human realm, considering he can deflect a sword with his partial transformations but A's hit knocked him out cold. Jiraiya's kick on Human realm isn't as impressive as anything A has done.




> Bee was restrained. Do you know what that means? It means you can't gain any leverage to do anything. It takes away a significant portion of your strength.


Umm ok. Those tentacles were physically stronger than B's arms or legs, otherwise B wouldn't be restrained. Not sure what your point is.




> I just want to know what Susanoo has done to put it in the same league as Juugo [1], 3 tailed v1 Killer Bee, Sakura [1], Tsunade (Not posting the feats as everyone knows. Blew away half of Madara's body, busted ribcage susanoo), Ei (wall busting, what he did to Juugo, Liger bomb), Might Gai (do I even need to explain), etc.
> 
> I don't think v3 susanoo can put out of physical damage to bust ribcage susanoo. I'm sure Sasuke's arrow "might" be able to. But I don't think it could punch ribcage and bust it like the others.



I am just comparing Sage Naruto's striking feats to Susano'o's. 

So again, best striking feat of SM Naruto is breaking Fatty's neck, or kicking Deva in the gut and none of them come close to the damage inflicted by Itachi's V2 Karate chop on Nagato.




IchLiebe said:


> Orochimaru isn't weak physically so I don't see what that means.


Orochimaru is on Itachi, Sasuke and Kakashi's strength tier. So he is above average.



> He also tossed KN4 hundreds of meteres with his neck muscles.


Thats where the weight comes in, because he pushed Naruto up from below. Now you can talk about leverage and shit. 
And it was mainly his Kusanagi extending for hundred meters, magically, rather than his muscles. All we can argue is that his neck muscles are strong enough to bear Naruto's weight.



> I'm not saying he can put out anything like Sakura or Juugo, but he is way stronger than Sasuke.


No he isn't.


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## ATastyMuffin (Nov 28, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> First off, every one of those robotic tentacles were torn apart by the karatechop as well as other limbs. *the same jutsu that busted a stronger V3 susanoo (from madara himself)*



Hm, true.

Still, you failed to acknowledge that I had brought up prior: the fact that a *concentrated strike* to break something requires far less strength than simply muscling your way out with *pure strength*. 

You can break a sheet of wood with a kick, but it'd be much, *much* harder to do so by pulling it apart.

In that, we can't even say Itachi's skeletal Susanoo is superior to Base Killer Bee in strength.

Hence, it ain't very impressive. 



> Second off, B is physically very very strong. He was able outmuscle A



Yeah, I don't see Base Killer Bee being able to overpower a maximum-speed Ay at full power being anything but plot-induced stupidity considering it required the former to power up to his *'Version One' Shroud* to perform a similar feat beforehand (against Kisame).



> and Juugo. He took Juugo's punch straigth to his face without any injuries. He is a tank.



? Did you forget what the crux of this debate was? It's about physical strength, not durability. What does Bee being a tank have to do with this?



> I don't know what you'r getting @,  liquifying someone isn't a strength feat ?



Hm? Did you misinterpret my argument _that_ badly? Of course liquefying Danzo with just its grip strength is a feat in itself, I never said otherwise.

But to *whom* do we compare it to? At what point did any other character, human or not, attempt something similar? Obviously Sakura's hand is *far* too small, unlike that of Susanoo, to squeeze an entire human body to the point of exploding. This applies to every single shinobi, actually.

Get it? The comparison is *utterly pointless*. 

Heck, if you really want to get technical about this, Part 1 Chunin Exam Gaara's sand could demonstrate a feat equal to Susanoo's - and *Part 1* Gai basically swatted his sand like it was nothing. I don't doubt in the least that Part 1 Base Gai could casually break out of Part 1 Gaara's Sand Coffin.



> You are comparing a full powered hit to a quick jab. That doesn't mean anything.



What difference was there in the manner in which Sakura and Sasuke's Susanoo punched? They were exactly alike.

Go ahead, do a quick jab, right in front of your computer screen. That isn't what Susanoo did, which was a full-body (or full-torso) punch.

Don't forget that Sasuke was* bloodlusted* at that point during the fight. Whereas Sakura's attack was casual, and arguably holding back so as to preserve her teacher.



> When beginning of part 2 Sakura manages to oneshot Nagato with a hit, then you might start comparing her hits to V2 Susano'O.



Why couldn't beginning-of-part-2 Sakura one-shot Nagato? Does he have durability feats otherwise?



> That wasn't a *boss summon shattering shinra tensei*. Also the damage of shinra tensei mainly comes from the collision, not the push. I am not sure how it can be compared to a kick.



Oh, on the contrary, Grimmjowsensei, it was quite explicit in the fact that Deva Path couldn't overpower Six-Tailed Naruto with just his regular Shinra Tensei techniques, no matter how hard he tried. The fact that he couldn't, as opposed to when he *effortlessly* blew away all three boss Toads without a _hint_ of exertion, screams to me that the Shinra Tensei utilized against Six-Tailed Naruto was stronger, if not *significantly* so.

Also, that very same reversed Shinra Tensei launched Deva Path with such force that the resulting collision against the Hokage Monument yielded an explosion half the size of the entire mountain.

The mountain has been , by the way. Deva Path took that collision without much issue.

Yet, Sage Naruto stuns him for a seemingly substantial period of time. 



> Yeah, and a straight kick to the face didn't even kill him. Big whoop dee doo.



How does this detract from its impressiveness? That's simply a testament to Human Path's resilience.

Not surprising in the least since said Human Path essentially matched Sage Jiraiya blow-for-blow later.



> I disagree. The distance Juugo was sent flying is probably multiple times greater than the distance Jiraiya's kick sent Human realm, and Juugo, despite being in CS2 got knocked out cold. Human realm got up like a boss and kept fighting.



substantial

I would estimate a 25-30 meter distance between Jiraiya and the three Paths of Pain. Any disagreements there?

This distance between the Raikage and Jugo in the right middle panel doesn't look different at all. Heck it looks even smaller.

Furthermore, we know that prior to Raikage decking the living daylights out of Jugo, the latter tried to vaporize him with some senjutsu-powered explosion. Guess what? Jugo *had to have* been standing in the center (since he fired it), and Raikage essentially took his position after elbowing him.

So where are Raikage and Sasuke are when they collide? Right in the center of the crater. Where Jugo had been before. Where the Raikage struck him head-on.

Meaning the distance from the duo and Jugo that you see in this page is *exactly* how far Ay sent the latter flying with his elbow strike. In other words, considerably less than that which Jiraiya sent Human Path.

Conclusion: Jiraiya > Regular-speed Ay in physical strength and striking power.

Secondary conclusion: Sage Naruto >> Sage Jiraiya > Regular-speed Ay




> Naruto has very decent lifting feats, I never said he doesn't.
> But his striking feats don't measure up to his lifting feats.
> His best striking feat is that kick to Deva's stomach, and that doesn't really tell us much.



His best striking feat is stunning Deva Path with a casual kick with zero momentum - the same Deva Path who laughed off a full-body collision with the Hokage Monument with such force that the resultant explosion eclipsed half of the entire mountain.

Or we just scale him to Sage Jiraiya, who we already know has superior striking power to Ay. Not to mention Ay required his high movement speed to generate such power in the first place - Jiraiya was stationary in his position and still launched Human Path.



> Susano'O karatechopping Nagato's limbs along with the robotic tentacles that were able to easily restrain B is a better feat than all of Sage Naruto's feats combined.
> Come at me.



See above about striking being much easier to break something than using pure strength.

You're also ignoring that Base Killer Bee isn't that physically impressive to begin with - at least, in the context of Sages.



> Thats retarded.
> 
> Kn4 Naruto is incomparably more durable and stronger than Base Naruto. His head jerking doesn't have anything to do with his weight.



Yes, it does. How can you even say that? 

The only possible way Orochimaru's punch would be impressive is if the notion that Four-Tailed Naruto was *actively trying to resis*t being launched from the blow, was true. Which would imply that Orochimaru is physically stronger than Four-Tailed Naruto - now that's *truly retarded.*

Or we could think rationally and simply infer that Four-Tailed Naruto didn't put up any resistance when being struck. Since he's the same weight as his regular self (see no reason he'd be heavier), Orochimaru was still capable of sending him flying. 

It's even possible that Kurama did that so to catch Orochimaru off-guard by forming that additional half in Naruto's body to bifurcate him.


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## Icegaze (Nov 28, 2014)

Sakura is stronger than susanoo 
Why is this being debated ??
She is however less of a treath than susanoo is


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