# Lucci vs Pre TS Zoro



## Zihawk (Aug 22, 2013)

Lucci was above Luffy in the EL Arc, and by extension would be above Zoro during this time as well. But I'm curious how Zoro would fare against Lucci at the end of the Timeskip. 

Both are fully healed and BL of course, fight takes place in Saboady.


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## Zorofangirl24 (Aug 22, 2013)

Zoro takes this. By thriller bark he had more endurance and durability than Luffy, and already had the ability to fodderize Kaku with one shot. Asura and good game.


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## jNdee~ (Aug 22, 2013)

Could go either way, extreme diff nonetheless


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## trance (Aug 22, 2013)

Zorofangirl24 said:


> Zoro takes this. By thriller bark he had more endurance and durability than Luffy, and already had the ability to fodderize Kaku with one shot. Asura and good game.



You're fucking retarded. 

Lucci takes it high difficulty.


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## Slenderman (Aug 22, 2013)

Either way extreme difficulty i'm leaning towards Lucci.


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## Zihawk (Aug 22, 2013)

Trance said:


> You're fucking retarded.
> 
> Lucci takes it high difficulty.



Don't see Lucci taking this one, at the end of Thriller Bark, Zoro's feats vastly improved: dodging invisible attacks from freaking Kuma, his insane damage soak and endurance as evidenced when he absorbed all of Luffy's pain in addition to his own, and the physical strength to deflect blows from Oz. Vast improvement from his EL self. He definitely has the reaction speed to tag Lucci, he dodged Kuma's pad cannons and laser, he has the attack power to deal damage to Lucci with Asura and Shishi sonson, and damage soak and endurance that completely outclasses Lucci's

Zoro solidly beats him high diff.


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## Halcyon (Aug 22, 2013)

Lucci high diff.


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## Zihawk (Aug 22, 2013)

Halcyon 5 said:


> Lucci high diff.



Are you gonna give some reasons why he wins


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## Orca (Aug 22, 2013)

Lucci high diff. I really don't see any difference between EL Zoro and TB zoro.


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## Halcyon (Aug 22, 2013)

The only reason Luffy even beat the guy was because of PIS and blunt immunity.

Post TS stomps, but preskip... I didn't see much improvement from EL to SA.

He wouldn't go down easy, especially with Asura, but I personally don't think it's enough.


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## MrWano (Aug 22, 2013)

The good old PIS excuse. Extreme diff Lucci for me.


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## Halcyon (Aug 22, 2013)

Not really an excuse, but call it what you will.


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## MrWano (Aug 22, 2013)

It's fine, people have excuses for pretty much all of Luffy's victories. Just funny to see the old PIS excuse again.


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## Shiny (Aug 22, 2013)

Zoro wins


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## TrainerRed (Aug 22, 2013)

Lucci isn't just gonna stop in awe and get high by a bloody Asura. 

Rob takes this high diff.


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## Coruscation (Aug 22, 2013)

There's certainly a big difference between Zoro as he was in Enies Lobby and Zoro after acquiring Shusui, fighting to the brink in Thriller Bark, defeating every single hostile creature on Mihawk's island and finally consolidating all that experience and physical training gained over almost 200 chapters and getting back to full health. He never actually did that on-panel in part 1, but as a hypothetical, I'm pretty sure Zoro in that state would be able to defeat Lucci.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

This is bloodlusted so Zoro does have a chance here, but im still going with Lucci. 

Zoro can do some massive damage that is sure, but Lucci is more then a little bit faster and a Zoan mode Shigan to the throat will do massive damage as well.

Lucci was able to hit Luffy with a large amount of shigan's, and Zoro who is slower and not made out of rubber just does not have that luxury to be taking them. Although that depends if Lucci wants to go the shigan/Gachou spam route. If he decides to hit him with the Rokugan i can see Zoro tanking it and then hitting him with a Ashura, followed by another high level move. 

In other words depending on how Lucci plays this i think he can win.


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## Marik Swift (Aug 22, 2013)

Coruscation said:


> There's certainly a big difference between Zoro as he was in Enies Lobby and Zoro after acquiring Shusui, fighting to the brink in Thriller Bark, defeating every single hostile creature on Mihawk's island and finally consolidating all that experience and physical training gained over almost 200 chapters and getting back to full health. He never actually did that on-panel in part 1, but as a hypothetical, I'm pretty sure Zoro in that state would be able to defeat Lucci.



This.

And on another note, Luffy's win over Lucci is the most obvious and biggest plot win todate. Oda didn't even try to conceal it. Lucci pretty much had him beat and all of a sudden Luffy gets up because of Usopp's speech? Oda pretty much made Luffy into Natsu in that fight.  I mean there are other wins cause of plot, but that was made blatant by Oda.​


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## Rob (Aug 22, 2013)

Well, it seemed he had one hell of an Endurance boost, but his fire-power didn't seem to have gone up much. 

Extreme diff either way. Lucci is still faster than him.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 22, 2013)

Marik Swift said:


> This.
> 
> And on another note, Luffy's win over Lucci is the most obvious and biggest plot win todate. Oda didn't even try to conceal it. Lucci pretty much had him beat and all of a sudden Luffy gets up because of Usopp's speech? Oda pretty much made Luffy into Natsu in that fight.  I mean there are other wins cause of plot, but that was made blatant by Oda.​



Honestly Lucci should of killed him after he fell down, but of course he had to do the Villain walks away like a boss after he thinks he won.


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## Sanji (Aug 22, 2013)

Lucci probably has this extreme diff.


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## Zorofangirl24 (Aug 22, 2013)

RedDogAkainu said:


> Lucci isn't just gonna stop in awe and get high by a bloody Asura.
> 
> Rob takes this high diff.



Yes he will, because Kaku was scared shitless when Zoro used his demonic aura (CoC) to paralyze him. Lucci too will freeze in fear and be forced to tank an attack that no mid tier can survive.


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## Zihawk (Aug 22, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> This is bloodlusted so Zoro does have a chance here, but im still going with Lucci.
> 
> Zoro can do some massive damage that is sure, but Lucci is more then a little bit faster and a Zoan mode Shigan to the throat will do massive damage as well.
> 
> ...



I doubt Lucci is faster. Zoro still hit kuma before he could turn around and stop him. I'm not saying pre ts Zoro can go around blitzing high tiers, but if he wasn't really fast, he couldn't of done it. And he still dodged kuma's fast as hell paw cannons and his damn laser. Lucci has no speed advantage. Hell look at the way he blitzed Kaku 

Zoro also shits on him in terms of damage soak and endurance. His physical strength is also greater than Lucci's because he deflected a punch from Oz with no noticeable effort IIRC. And Oz was way stronger than EL Luffy, even G3 luffy. Zoro soundly defeats him high diff.


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## TrolonoaZoro (Aug 22, 2013)

Thriller Bark Zoro casually deflects a bigger than a giant's punch when it comes his way. (not even Ichi/ni Gorilla)
Lucci's only option was to tank it.
Zoro has him on strength.
Zoro's Asura made a stronger and more concentrated Amane dechi turn into mist by simply being there, it also pierced a pacifista deep enough for it spit blood. (While half dead) and pacifistas body> Lucci
Lucci's speed advantage would be diminished by Zoro winning the round once they clash with his superior strength. 
Zoro doesn't need to dodge Lucci's rankyaku. Zoro could easily retaliate from long range with Attacks that Lucci has to dodge or stop moving and tank. Attacks that got upgraded by shusui so he won't be having a free time even with his tekkai.
Zoro high difficulty because Lucci's strength lies in basic combat that may overcome Zoro or to the very least keep on his toes for the entire fight. (his exchange with Ryuuma and Kuma proved he could tango and quickly retaliate if he wanted to) However Ashura is proven to be too much of a monster for Lucci and any of his techniques.


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## Giocatser (Aug 22, 2013)

I would bet for Zoro.


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## Rob (Aug 22, 2013)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> Thriller Bark Zoro casually deflects a bigger than a giant's punch when it comes his way. (not even Ichi/ni Gorilla)
> *Lucci's only option was to tank it.*
> Zoro has him on strength.
> Zoro's Asura made a stronger and more concentrated Amane dechi turn into mist by simply being there, *it also pierced a pacifista deep enough for it spit blood.* (While half dead) and pacifistas body> Lucci
> ...


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## Zorofangirl24 (Aug 22, 2013)

Zihawk said:


> I doubt Lucci is faster. Zoro still hit kuma before he could turn around and stop him. I'm not saying pre ts Zoro can go around blitzing high tiers, but if he wasn't really fast, he couldn't of done it. And he still dodged kuma's fast as hell paw cannons and his damn laser. Lucci has no speed advantage. Hell look at the way he blitzed Kaku
> 
> Zoro also shits on him in terms of damage soak and endurance. His physical strength is also greater than Lucci's because he deflected a punch from Oz with no noticeable effort IIRC. And Oz was way stronger than EL Luffy, even G3 luffy. Zoro soundly defeats him high diff.



I bring that up a lot. Zoro blitzed Kuma who was undoubtedly way stronger than the pre skip SHs.
Zoro's attack speed and short movement bursts are extremely fast, faster than gear second attacks.


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## SuperSaqer (Aug 22, 2013)

Lucci takes this with about high difficulty. I'll take Zoro's statement about they get stronger as they travel, but they don't know about it in consideration, and Franky's statement about if Luffy wasn't there, he wouldn't know how many of us would get killed. Mixing both indicates that Zoro's gain isn't enough to fill the gap between him and Lucci. Zoro would be about EN Luffy's (no Gear Third) level, or either a bit stronger or a bit weaker.

Lucci almost killed Luffy if it wasn't for his Gear Third, and EN G2 Luffy is as strong as, a bit stronger, or a bit weaker than PTS Asura Zoro. I don't Think Zoro would win, but it wouldn't be easy for Lucci as he took effort to bring Luffy to the brink of death.


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## Zorofangirl24 (Aug 22, 2013)

SuperSaqer said:


> Lucci takes this with about high difficulty. I'll take Zoro's statement about they get stronger as they travel, but they don't know about it in consideration, and Franky's statement about if Luffy wasn't there, he wouldn't know how many of us would get killed. Mixing both indicates that Zoro's gain isn't enough to fill the gap between him and Lucci. Zoro would be about EN Luffy's (no Gear Third) level, or either a bit stronger or a bit weaker.
> 
> Lucci almost killed Luffy if it wasn't for his Gear Third, and EN G2 Luffy is as strong as, a bit stronger, or a bit weaker than PTS Asura Zoro. I don't Think Zoro would win, but it wouldn't be easy for Lucci as he took effort to bring Luffy to the brink of death.



Franky's statement is irrelevant because he doesn't know how strong Zoro or Sanji is. He wasn't even aware of Luffy's gear second. The unpowered up Zoro/Sanji SHs that Franky saw before is what Franky is basing his statement on.


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## TrolonoaZoro (Aug 22, 2013)

@RLR
Oh I forgot about Lucci parrying that gear third.
That Zoro actually doesn't have swords.
Lucci doesn't have to tekkai or dodge Zoro's air slashes because lul.
And how Lucci has an attack that's proven to be as deadly as Asura.
Oh wait never fucking happened.


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## Rob (Aug 23, 2013)

Shhh, my little Zolo-tard, shhh. 

*Pats on head*

It's ok. Here's a treat. 

*Hands Treat*


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## Halcyon (Aug 23, 2013)

Lucci is faster in movement speed than preskip Zoro, there's no question.

Zoro's Shishi Sonson against Kuma was attack speed.


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## Shinthia (Aug 23, 2013)

Lucci high diff . and i cant see a preTS Zoro doing any better here.


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## Zorofangirl24 (Aug 23, 2013)

Kyutoryu Asura could one shot Lucci if not put him in a critical/losing condition but surviving 
Lucci took several g2 punches from Luffy but remember Zoro has swords, one clean lion's song like the one he did on Kuma and Lucci is finished.
Zoro high difficulty


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## Sayonara (Aug 23, 2013)

SHs have got a steep growth rate, by the end of the first part they were without a doubt stronger than their EL selves, TB was big deal.  

Zoro attack power wasn't really ever an issue, but more so his reaction/attack speed and endurance/durability to take Lucci high end attacks after all Luffys  got the rubber advantage. After the Kuma/TB incident I don't question it though , Zoro will take hell of a beating but he knows more than most how to fight and survive in that state. Feats against Kuma and Oz are pretty telling as well so ill say Zoro High diff.


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## Rob (Aug 23, 2013)

Ha  

I haven't been negged in a good minute


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## Quuon (Aug 23, 2013)

Could go either way, extreme-diff. Leaning more towards Lucci taking it.


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## Canute87 (Aug 23, 2013)

El Lucci was a good deal above El Zoro, it really all depends on how much stronger people think they get when they visit each island.

If this Zoro is fully healed then he'd have gotten a very powerful new sword, a stronger body and even an increase in will power due to his sacrifice.

It's not all that impossible that Zoro at the pre-skip end could pull off a win against a rather overconfident opponent.


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## Zihawk (Aug 23, 2013)

Halcyon 5 said:


> Lucci is faster in movement speed than preskip Zoro, there's no question.
> 
> Zoro's Shishi Sonson against Kuma was attack speed.



Try again man, he had to jump and reach him to slash him. As in he had to MOVE to cut him. That's movement speed buddy. In short distance Bursts and sheer reaction speed Zoro is his superior.


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## Furinji Saiga (Aug 23, 2013)

TB Zoro feats are pretty damn good, especially with that speed and reaction feat to Kuma's paw cannons , and his massive endurance boost at the end. 

Could go either way extreme difficulty.


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## Captain Altintop (Aug 23, 2013)

Lucci take this extreme diff, when I said that Lucci would beat Drake extreme diff, too. Zoro = Drake.


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## Canute87 (Aug 23, 2013)

Let me put something in perspective.

Let's use luffy, because many people judge lucci's victory against zoro based on the fact that lucci pushed luffy very hard during enies lobby.

Do people believe that TB luffy would have the same amount of difficulty with rob lucci?

TB introduced luffy to gear combinations which would allow him to beat lucci in considerably less time.  Lucci was barely able to keep up with Gear 2 and he could do nothing to defend against G3 even with a full zoan transformation and tekkai lucci was unable to defend against the attack and it had a very interesting after effect. 

Luffy combining both would allow the significant speed boost as well as the power to put lucci down in way less time.

Zoro got new things and had ungergone new experiences which at the very least makes it possible for zoro to win compared to him standing no chance with regards to his EL counterpart.


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## Halcyon (Aug 23, 2013)

I've been convinced, I change my vote to extreme diff either way.


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## Rob (Aug 23, 2013)

The only real boost I saw from Zoro was his Endurance boost. 

We can't say for sure that Lucci nor Luffy could have deflected Oars' leg, which is probably one of the only strength feats he got. 

And landing an Attack on a guy who wasn't paying  attention is a horrible argument, for anyone throwing that out there.


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## Lawliet (Aug 23, 2013)

You guys seriously debating this? Lucci is a fearsome enemy, but right before the timeskip Zoro isn't losing this, not a chance in hell.


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## Captain Altintop (Aug 23, 2013)

Lucci could kill EL Luffy if he didn't turn his back and let Luffy alive. Fuck PIS. 

And I don't think the difference in power between EL and SA is really noticeable. 

Since SA Luffy would beat Lucci extreme diff (without PIS), I'm leaning towards 52 / 100 for Lucci. (I see Luffy needing very high to extreme diff for Zoro)


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## TrolonoaZoro (Aug 23, 2013)

You people's problem is lack of insightful judgement for Ennies Lobby Zoro. You say Lucci would've kill Zoro with such a wording that makes it seem like there wouldn't be much of a fight. But based on what? On Zoro fighting a 50% weaker opponent when in comes to physical strength? Yeah, Zoro completely raped Kaku once he got out his power up. Zoro was winning the clash of strength very handily and Kaku had a lot of leverage to increase his power output with his gigantic body. The same is not true for Lucci. Kaku's body had special focus when it came to the physical strength the unique body of a Giraffe could give him. Lucci's didn't get that treatment. (My guess is that this is the why of Lucci's gigantic difference in strength in the first place, get all of you riled up) 

Again, based on Zoro's new feat on speed and strength. Lucci is not in such a good position anymore. Plus Zoro's Asura would send him to the after life so fast he wouldn't even know what hit him.


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## Rob (Aug 23, 2013)

^
What the fuck? 

Zoro's Asura would send him to the after life so fast he wouldn't even know what hit him? ... 

1. Congratulations... Asura beat a guy who was worn down after a long fight...  You don't know how strong Asura is. 
2. Why would you assume that Asura would just give Zolo the win? Does Asura one-shot everyone now? Oh wait... It never has. Forgot about that 
3. Kaku had more leverage to increase his strength? Whether you're talking physical or just strength in general baffles me. 

Amane Dachi, Kaku's strongest attack, which, for your information takes 50 years of prep, cut the Tower of Justice in half. Decent feat. 
Lucci's half-assed, un-named, generic Rankakyu cut the whole Mansion in Water 7 down. 

If  you're talking Physical Strength you are out of your mind.


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## Kanki (Aug 23, 2013)

RobLucciRapes said:


> The only real boost I saw from Zoro was his Endurance boost.
> 
> We can't say for sure that Lucci nor Luffy could have deflected Oars' leg, which is probably one of the only strength feats he got.
> 
> And landing an Attack on a guy who wasn't paying  attention is a horrible argument, for anyone throwing that out there.



How about a new, much stronger sword? 

Zoro's Asura didn't just defeat Kaku's defence, it literally ate up Kaku's own attack as well.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 23, 2013)

Asura will hurt but its not one shoting Lucci. 

And as i said before a Zoan Shigan to the throat aka big ass hole in your throat will hurt as well.


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## TrolonoaZoro (Aug 23, 2013)

Lmao@Rob
A guy who was worn down? Asura completely destroy amane dechi with its presence. 
Asura has never one shotted someone? Ffs, it has been used twice. One where it does one shot the enemy, the other makes a person with a body much stronger than that of Lucci split blood. If Asura can penetrate a Pacifista, its sure as hell going to cut through Lucci. 

Clearly physical strength. The maneuverability of his body and its size were both mention to specifically increase his physical strength. That Kaku's fruit gave him a bigger boost in strength than Lucci's is a fact. Hence the emphasis on it. It also helps that I was referring to Douriki
. 
Cutting the tower of justice in half is a decent feat now, someone is on full damage control now? Because a gigantic tower cut with a half ass amene dechi * which if you haven't noticed, Kaku clearly stated it was* is obviously less impressive than a mere mansion?  
Is this the opposite day now?

If Zoro is able to cut a pacifista and made him spit blood. Which indicates internal damage. 
In what universe does Lucci have an even stronger defense to not get one shotted by an attack of that caliber? It will clearly pierce Lucci right in.


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## Rob (Aug 23, 2013)

Shisui? 

Boohoo. Zolo has a stronger sword that barely puts him above his EL-self. 

And eating up an attack from someone much weaker than you =/= Owning a guy two to 3 times stronger than that person.


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## Rob (Aug 23, 2013)

@Zolotard whose name I don't care to remember. 



> Asura has never one shotted someone? Ffs, it has been used twice. One where it does one shot the enemy,


Our definitions of One-shotting are different then, seeing as Zolo needed lik3, 30 previous attack to ware him down 


> the other makes a person with a body much stronger than that of Lucci split blood.


 A robot spitting blood? Yes, it happened.. but... Are you serious


> If Asura can penetrate a Pacifista, its sure as hell going to cut through Lucci.


Hitting = Going through 



> Clearly physical strength. The maneuverability of his body and its size were both mention to specifically increase his physical strength. That Kaku's fruit gave him a bigger boost in strength than Lucci's is a fact.


 
.





> Cutting the tower of justice in half is a decent feat now, someone is on full damage control now? Because a gigantic tower cut with a half ass amene dechi * which if you haven't noticed, Kaku clearly stated it was* is obviously less impressive than a mere mansion?
> Is this the opposite day now?


What the hell did you just even write


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## trance (Aug 23, 2013)

Some good points have been brought up about Zoro but Lucci is still faster...so instead of tanking Asura, why can't he just, oh, I don't know, dodge?


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## Rob (Aug 24, 2013)

^BcuZ dooD 
A$uR@ is a one1-sht Atak man 

Frkng nwb bro


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## Lawliet (Aug 24, 2013)

Trance said:


> Some good points have been brought up about Zoro but Lucci is still faster...so instead of tanking Asura, why can't he just, oh, I don't know, dodge?



Like he dodged Gear 3? A much weaker slower attack.


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## trance (Aug 24, 2013)

oOLawlietOo said:


> Like he dodged Gear 3? A much weaker slower attack.



Read the manga.

Lucci severely underestimated Gear Third and purposely tried tanking it with a Tekkai.

 the scan.


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## TrolonoaZoro (Aug 24, 2013)

Because Asura is a form, much like gear second. Which makes gigantic Rankyakus disappear.they will need to clash to continue the fight., unless it becomes a waiting game. 
Not to mention the surprise factor. 

@ROB lmao. Never in the history of  fights has it made more clear that an attack completely overpowers the opponent not because of wearing the guy down, this is not Luffy vs Lucci. But just packing way too much and the technique being that deadly. This " wearing down"  you speak of associated with fist fights where you need to a reach a certain level of damage to actually put the guy down once and for all. Zoro not only took on one shotted Kaku fair and square, but completely overshadow Kaku's strongest technique. There was no sign of fatigue but a clear presentation of overpowering an individual. 

 Asura is not a power based technique. This panel clearly indicates a swift cut. The cyborg spit blood. Lets use our brains here, if Zoro didn't smack the cyborg, if the cyborg was damaged and if Zoro's using a cutting technique, then what do you think happened? You can't ignore the facts. Zoro's asura is clearly powerful enough to make a clean cut on a pacifista, Lucci might as well quit with that fact. He has no way to stop an Asura/ed Zoro.


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## Lolicon Hunter (Aug 24, 2013)

I would give the win to Lucci if he is up against EL Zoro, but any version of Zoro thriller bark and beyond has the edge here. His portrayal in TB suggested that he had the best improvement over one arc. He got a new sword, and was put on the same level as his captain (tanked all of his pain).

I don't know how you could say that speed is an issue here. Zoro should be equal or relatively close to G2 speed, and fresh G2 was utterly raping Lucci IIRC. Even on Luffy's second attempt in using gear second on Lucci he was blitzing him until he got severed by a rokougan. If Lucci's undoubtedly slower than a G2 Luffy, why does he still have a massive speed advantage over Zoro?

I would also like to mention that Zoro experiencing what Kuma did to him will be far worse than what he will have to endure in this battle. This is Pre-TS Zoro, so doesn't that mean that this version of Zoro already recovered from that tanking feat and gotten stronger due to it?

Pre - TS Zoro takes this whilst TB Zoro is a toss up.


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## Shinthia (Aug 24, 2013)

Whay people r convinced that Zoro will win ? What version of Zoro r u guys talking about ? SA Zoro is the last version r8 ?


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## Lolicon Hunter (Aug 24, 2013)

Lionel Messi said:


> Whay people r convinced that Zoro will win ? What version of Zoro r u guys talking about ? SA Zoro is the last version r8 ?



Pre TS is actually the Zoro who fought Baboons in Mihawk's castle after being teleported by Kuma.


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## Zihawk (Aug 24, 2013)

Canute hit the nail on the head with his post. TB Luffy was such a vast improvement over his EL self that he wouldn't need PIS to push Lucci's shit in. The improvement from EL to the end of TB was staggering. Luffy can gear stack, and straight up tanks that island splitting punch from SA Moria. Rob Lucci doesn't hold a candle to that amount of power. Call me back when he cracks an island. 

Zoro grew just as much as Luffy did: effortlessly deflecting Oz's fist, enduring ALL of Luffy's pain that he suffered during that arc, and then dodging attacks from Kuma of all people who is outright stated to be fast as fuck. Even better, he was fast enough to move and cut him despite being half dead. It wasn't a blitz, but he was obviously moving really fast. I'm not gonna get into whether or not Zoro was stronger than luffy or vice-versa, but Oda clearly showed that Zoro had one stat over his captain, and that was endurance.

Even funnier; in SA his asura had gotten strong enough where it could make a pacifista cough up blood. Pacifista are leagues above Lucci in durability, that's a fact. Feats speak for themselves. I don't see why this is so hard to understand, Zoro's feats even after just TB surpass Lucci's. Period. Give him feats from SA and it's arguable that an Asura would at the very least de-limb Lucci. Zoro takes this like I and many others have said, he's too strong, too fast, and for damn sure has too much endurance to lose this matchup.


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## Furinji Saiga (Aug 24, 2013)

Lionel Messi said:


> Whay people r convinced that Zoro will win ? What version of Zoro r u guys talking about ? SA Zoro is the last version r8 ?



Pretty much all the feats from TB and SA, the baboons on Mihawk's island  are also impressive as it demonstrates just how far Zoro can go even when in such a damaged state.


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## Furinji Saiga (Aug 24, 2013)

Zihawk said:


> Canute hit the nail on the head with his post. TB Luffy was such a vast improvement over his EL self that he wouldn't need PIS to push Lucci's shit in. The improvement from EL to the end of TB was staggering. Luffy can gear stack, and straight up tanks that island splitting punch from SA Moria. Rob Lucci doesn't hold a candle to that amount of power. Call me back when he cracks an island.
> 
> Zoro grew just as much as Luffy did: effortlessly deflecting Oz's fist, enduring ALL of Luffy's pain that he suffered during that arc, and then dodging attacks from Kuma of all people who is outright stated to be fast as fuck. Even better, he was fast enough to move and cut him despite being half dead. It wasn't a blitz, but he was obviously moving really fast. I'm not gonna get into whether or not Zoro was stronger than luffy or vice-versa, but Oda clearly showed that Zoro had one stat over his captain, and that was endurance.
> 
> *Even funnier; in SA his asura had gotten strong enough where it could make a pacifista cough up blood. Pacifista* are leagues above Lucci in durability, that's a fact. Feats speak for themselves. I don't see why this is so hard to understand, Zoro's feats even after just TB surpass Lucci's. Period. Give him feats from SA and it's arguable that an Asura would at the very least de-limb Lucci. Zoro takes this like I and many others have said, he's too strong, too fast, and for damn sure has too much endurance to lose this matchup.



It was especially impressive considering how damaged Zoro was, the Asura did all that damage while Zoro was at deaths door.


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## Zihawk (Aug 24, 2013)

Furinji Saiga said:


> It was especially impressive considering how damaged Zoro was, the Asura did all that damage while Zoro was at deaths door.



I just find it amazing how people can conveniently "forget" stuff like this. It's almost like they didn't read the manga.


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## Coruscation (Aug 24, 2013)

You mean like you conveniently seem to "forget" that the Pacifista was an electrocuted, burned, internally damaged and brutally beaten wreck of a cyborg by the time Zoro got around to hitting it with Ashura? Try for some objectiveness.


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## Zihawk (Aug 24, 2013)

Coruscation said:


> You mean like you conveniently seem to "forget" that the Pacifista was an electrocuted, burned, internally damaged and brutally beaten wreck of a cyborg by the time Zoro got around to hitting it with Ashura? Try for some objectiveness.



If you had read what I quoted I was referencing that people forget that Zoro was probably 30% at best when he pulled the feat off. He was no where near full health when he did this. Hell he was much worse off than the pacifista he cut, or did you forget about him absorbing all the shit Luffy took on top of his own?

When did I ever mention anything about the physical state of the pacifista in order to hype his cutting power? Search through my posts. How about you try to gain some reading comprehension before jumping on me with bullshit allegations?


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## Rob (Aug 24, 2013)

Zolo-wank.
Zolo-wank everywhere


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## Coruscation (Aug 24, 2013)

> If you had read what I quoted I was referencing that people forget that Zoro was probably 30% at best when he pulled the feat off.



Strength doesn't really work that way in this series. Characters frequently pull off basically full power moves even when tired and injured by bringing out all their strength and willpower. Would you say that Luffy defeated Crocodile and Lucci with 5% of his power? Storm could have been twenty times stronger? Obviously not, and I'm sure you won't hold any double standards when it comes to Zoro if you think about it a little. Zoro summoned his strength in that instance to put out one more full power attack and that was the Ashura he used.



> When did I ever mention anything about the physical state of the pacifista in order to hype his cutting power?



You didn't. You neglected to but you _should_ have mentioned it because context is vital to interpreting and judging feats. Hence why I sarcastically pointed out you "forgetting" that the PX was in a horribly wrecked state already since all you kept saying was "Zoro cut a Pacifista, Zoro cut a Pacifista". To clarify with an analogy, Sanji's DJ kick sent a Pacifista flying hard and caused parts of its stomach to break off but he clearly only accomplished that much because it was already grievously damaged. We know that because a brutal triple attack from the monster trio all at once didn't do that much damage. If Sanji used the same move on an undamaged Pacifista he would do nowhere near as much. The same exact thing goes for Zoro and his Ashura as well as Luffy and his following Gigant Rifle.


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## Mangeykou Byakugan (Aug 24, 2013)

EL Lucci>EL Luffy?? 

No, it's EL Luffy>=EL Lucci 

And by extension Pre-TS Luffy>=Pre-TS Zoro>=EL Lucci

Actually, TB Luffy/Zoro should be a lot stronger than there EL counterparts

Espicially with new techniques like Gear stacking and Shuusui

Zoro takes it mid-high difficulty if hes not injured


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 24, 2013)

^

Nope

EL Lucci> EL Luffy.

Zoro getting a new sword in no way helps him hit Lucci which is the main problem here, Zoro being able to hurt Lucci was never in question. Nor is a supposed Endurance increase going to help much when he gets maimed by a ganchou/Shigans.


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## Rob (Aug 24, 2013)

Isn't EL Lucci being > EL Luffy confirmed? ...


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## TrolonoaZoro (Aug 24, 2013)

Coruscation said:


> You didn't. You neglected to but you _should_ have mentioned it because context is vital to interpreting and judging feats. Hence why I sarcastically pointed out you "forgetting" that the PX was in a horribly wrecked state already since all you kept saying was "Zoro cut a Pacifista, Zoro cut a Pacifista". To clarify with an analogy, *Sanji's DJ kick sent a Pacifista flying hard and caused parts of its stomach to break off* but he clearly only accomplished that much because it was already grievously damaged. We know that because a brutal triple attack from the monster trio all at once didn't do that much damage. If Sanji used the same move on an undamaged Pacifista he would do nowhere near as much. The same exact thing goes for Zoro and his Ashura as well as Luffy and his following Gigant Rifle.


 Wait what? in a discussion of Zoro being able to bypass a giant steel body....how the heck is this relevant ? that it was getting beat up?Internal damage? 
Like I previously mentioned, Zoro didn't force his way in that attack but made a swift cut. Penetration. Which makes it irrelevant because the gigantic steel body is still a gigantic steel body. I just don't see how the steel would become less durable because it was getting kicked/punched/laser/electrocuted. 
I understand how all the attacks together were needed to take the thing down, I just don't understand this notion that the steel's durability wears down because it was punched or electrocuted. This holds no logic as far as I'm concerned. 

And if you're simply arguing about damaged, the fact that Asura could bypass something as hard as a pacifista and that Zoro's swords are still swords. Then sure you see how that piece of information is irrelevant because Zoro would penetrate Lucci's tekkai with much ease*let alone a non tekkai Lucci* and it would cause great internal damaged that by all means should one shot him. So either way the same feat leads us to the same conclusion. I ask, what is going on here?


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## MrWano (Aug 24, 2013)

RobLucciRapes said:


> Isn't EL Lucci being > EL Luffy confirmed? ...



Confirmed where? They were pretty much equal, so it turned out to be a game of endurance and will, which Luffy then won.


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## Typhon (Aug 24, 2013)

Mangeykou Byakugan said:


> EL Lucci>EL Luffy??
> 
> No, it's EL Luffy>=EL Lucci
> 
> ...



It's pretty much fact that Lucci could have killed Luffy and was stronger then him. Luffy's DF gave him a lot of leverage in that fight.

Now if pre time skip means any version of Zoro before the break, then yeah Zoro can beat Lucci. Hell I'd even wager that Sanji could take out Lucci if we used his SA self just based off the fact that they get stronger with each passing. We know that their SA selfs can atleast damage pacifistas when at TB (granted they were damaged pretty badly), they could barely scratch one. I'd say that's a big jump in power.


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## Coruscation (Aug 24, 2013)

> Wait what? in a discussion of Zoro being able to bypass a giant steel body....how the heck is this relevant ? that it was getting beat up?Internal damage?
> Like I previously mentioned, Zoro didn't force his way in that attack but made a swift cut. Penetration. Which makes it irrelevant because the gigantic steel body is still a gigantic steel body. I just don't see how the steel would become less durable because it was getting kicked/punched/laser/electrocuted.
> I understand how all the attacks together were needed to take the thing down, I just don't understand this notion that the steel's durability wears down because it was punched or electrocuted. This holds no logic as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> And if you're simply arguing about damaged, the fact that Asura could bypass something as hard as a pacifista and that Zoro's swords are still swords. Then sure you see how that piece of information is irrelevant because Zoro would penetrate Lucci's tekkai with much ease*let alone a non tekkai Lucci* and it would cause great internal damaged that by all means should one shot him. So either way the same feat leads us to the same conclusion. I ask, what is going on here?



It's relevant because objects become weaker and less resistant to force as they get horribly damaged. A Pacifista is no exception. Zoro cutting a Pacifista that is extremely badly worn down is *not the same* as Zoro cutting a Pacifista that is in perfect condition. Any attack dealt to a robot that's already extremely badly injured will have much more of an effect than if it was in top condition. You shouldn't have any problems understanding that. You can't go around proclaiming "Ashura cuts through a Pacifista" anymore than it would make sense to proclaim "Gigant Rifle one-shots a Pacifista". Zoro's feat needs to be seen in light of its circumstance like everything else but that wasn't happening. You don't get to sit and claim that your favorite character's feat conveniently had nothing to do with the thing being brutally damaged but everyone else's did.

I don't know what you're talking about. I have voiced no objection to the idea that Ashura if it connected would cut Lucci, Tekkai or not, and deal enough damage to guarantee Zoro the win. What's going on is that people were being uncritical fanboys in order to blow up Zoro's feats instead of evaluating things objectively and critically and I pointed it out. Your time to defend Zoro alarm had no reason to go off here.


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## TrolonoaZoro (Aug 24, 2013)

"It's relevant because objects become weaker and less resistant to force as they get horribly damaged." 
I understand this notion. Here's the problem though. You're assuming that all of their attacks together were enough to wear this overly hard metal to the point where being cut by Zoro's strongest technique alone is not a the main point of focus in that exchange. 

And this is why that is a problem.  Notice how even after being plummeted down by gear third, the hard exterior does not loses shape and its injuries are superficial. This to me is a direct result of the thing's steel body in the first place. And the fact that Pacifista are cyborgs and not good all robots. *hence the bleeding* meaning that all of that power put into place and why the thing felt down even when its body is not superficially injured as much as we would expect from the combination of those attacks is because all of the shock trespassing to it's human part rather than destroying its exterior. Or, the thing actually doesn't show any signs of its steel being wore out. 

Don't confuse me saying that the reason why Zoro was able *to* damage the thing doesn't appear to have anything to do with the previous barrage of attacks, to Zoro's damaged and the pile of all the attacks being relevant to deducing how the thing got defeated and Zoro's feat of harming a pacifista. 

I am strictly looking at the cut and the reaction from it.  Two different things.


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## Rob (Aug 24, 2013)

Zolo-wank 

 Zolo-wank

Zolo-wank 

 Zolo-wank

Zolo-wank 

 Zolo-wank

Zolo-wank 

 Zolo-wank

Zo~lo-WANK!


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## Lolicon Hunter (Aug 24, 2013)

Claiming Zoro wank isn't going to strengthen your argument.
Thinking that Zoro takes this under high-extreme difficulty is obvious wanking, but only a couple people in this thread have said that.


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## trance (Aug 24, 2013)

> CURRENTLY ACTIVE USERS VIEWING THIS THREAD: 4 (3 MEMBERS AND 1 GUESTS)
> Mr. E Man, Lolicon Hunter, *KaiserWombat*



What brings you to the OPBD, Modbat?


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## Rob (Aug 24, 2013)

@LH

... Are you serious... You just... What? 

So you agree that people wank Zolo. 

End of Story.


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## Lolicon Hunter (Aug 24, 2013)

Yes people wank Zoro, but not everyone. You're not reading the "non-wankers"arguments.
1 person in this thread thinks that Zoro one shots Lucci with Asura and the other thinks that Zoro wins mid-high difficulty. Aside from them the people supporting Zoro's win aren't wanking.


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## Bansai (Aug 24, 2013)

I would give it to Lucci with extreme high difficulty. His superior speed is a little bit too troublesome in this scenario. Lucci is an extremely tough opponent whose speed and skills should be a bit too troublesome for Zoro. However, I really wouldn't give it to him with less than extreme high difficulty.


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## Mangeykou Byakugan (Aug 25, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> ^
> 
> Nope
> 
> ...



Zoro was able to blitz Kuma with ShiSon in an exhausted state with Shuusui

He'll have no type of trouble landing an attack on EL Lucci (which is all he'll need to end the fight)

And Zoros endurance>>Luffys endurance at that point in time
Luffys durability is mostly his DF along with his willpower

Zoro is a pure tank

Lucci's Shigan will be laughed at from Zoro 
He took a direct slash from Mihawk; as well as taking Luffys pain while tolerating his own in an exhuausted state and still being conscious and standing after

Ganchou is outright dodged

Lucci is going to have to play the range game if he want to beat Zoro
As no amount of blocking, endurance , or his DF will protect him from Shuusui at close range

But Zoro has ranged attacks more powerful than Lucci
So hes at a lost either way

Zoro mid-difficulty


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## Firo (Aug 25, 2013)

Zoro would lose mid diff. Lucci's arsenal is too much for Zoro to handle. Plus he's faster stronger and has pseudo-flight.


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## Mangeykou Byakugan (Aug 25, 2013)

I give you speed, but stronger?? Zoro wields Shuusui like a regular sword and is almost physically as strong as Luffy was then


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## Halcyon (Aug 25, 2013)

DarkPrince said:


> Zoro would lose mid diff. Lucci's arsenal is too much for Zoro to handle. Plus he's faster stronger and has pseudo-flight.


Change your set if you believe this blasphemy.

Mid diff.. what a joke.


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## Rob (Aug 25, 2013)

^
Lucci probably low-diffs


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## tanman (Nov 14, 2013)

Lucci takes it with very high difficulty. The gap between Luffy (and by extension Lucci) and Zoro is often quite underestimated, in my opinion. Especially when compared to the difference between Zoro and Sanji.


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## Tiger (Nov 14, 2013)

Except this isn't EL Zoro, it's the Zoro that defeated all the baboons and gained the respect of Mihawk enough to train him.

There's a big difference between the Zoro that just acquired Asura, and the Zoro with Shusui who began training with Mihawk.

Zoro, extreme difficulty.

Not everyone believes Sanji is closer to Zoro than Zoro is to Luffy. And no, it isn't just "smart people think X; dumb people think Y" either. Despite have Zorofangirl on their side, they're not crackpots.


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## tanman (Nov 14, 2013)

I never said (or thought) any of things in the last couple sentences. i don't think anyone's a crackpot, nor do I think it's black and white. However, I do think people who don't hold the same opinion as me are more wrong than they are right. Because that's just kind of how opinions work.

And I'm fully aware that this isn't EL Zoro. My conclusion was based off of that. Back at Enies Lobby Lucci was _considerably_ above Zoro. This time, it's very close. I see that you recognize that too based on the difficulty rating you gave it. I don't really feel the need to argue when our opinions are a hair's breadth away on opposite sides.


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## Tiger (Nov 14, 2013)

tanman said:


> I never said (or thought) any of things in the last couple sentences. i don't think anyone's a crackpot, nor do I think it's black and white. However, I do think people who don't hold the same opinion as me are more wrong than they are right. Because that's just kind of how opinions work.
> 
> And I'm fully aware that this isn't EL Zoro. My conclusion was based off of that. Back at Enies Lobby Lucci was _considerably_ above Zoro. This time, it's very close. I see that you recognize that too based on the difficulty rating you gave it. I don't really feel the need to argue when our opinions are a hair's breadth away on opposite sides.



The only thing that strikes me as odd is your "high difficulty" you give Lucci.

That's because I find it odd for you to mention that Lucci was "considerably above Zoro", yet avoid mentioning that Lucci was also "considerably above Luffy". In the one time where we saw what happens when Lucci goes against Zoro, we also saw Luffy owned just as easily - and yet, he came back with resolve and was much stronger. I feel as though your opinion of Zoro's gap with Lucci is based on a showing where he did no worse than Luffy himself who came back to defeat Lucci later with what most of us use as a litmus-test for what "Extreme Difficulty" means.

Due to that, only a complete wanker would say EL Zoro wins in that fight, but even at Enies Lobby, Zoro going all-out, life on the line, would have given Lucci a "high-difficulty" fight. Let alone months later, with a much stronger weapon and raising in power in such a short amount of time on Mihawk's own island.

I feel as though the only way you'd think Lucci still only needs high-difficulty to defeat him is because you let their first encounter carry far too long the error that the scene in question was truly indicative of their gap in power, whereas it wasn't for him and Luffy. And if that's the case, you must truly believe Luffy and Zoro are worlds apart.

So do you see why, even though our theories are similar, that they're still also...worlds apart? It's because our opinions of Zoro and interpretations of events vary so dramatically, that I'm calling your post into question. Because as I see it, giving it to Lucci high-difficulty over the Zoro that was last seen succeeding to impress Mihawk to begin training - you must believe he'd be beaten low or low-mid difficulty by Lucci in Enies Lobby, whereas Luffy beat him Extreme Difficulty. And those outcomes don't match up too well given the fact that the M3 are all decently grouped.


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## Rob (Nov 14, 2013)

Lucci extreme diff. 

Zoro can tank more. This is almost a fact. 

Lucci has speed on him. 

Not only that, but he pushed Luffy (The guy who is agreed upon to be only slightly above Zoro) to the brink using physical force. 

That speaks for itself.

*Edit: *Jesus  This is the work of a necromancer. I'm just repeating myself now.


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## tanman (Nov 15, 2013)

Law said:


> The only thing that strikes me as odd is your "high difficulty" you give Lucci.



Could have sworn I said "very high difficulty." 



Law said:


> That's because I find it odd for you to mention that Lucci was "considerably above Zoro", yet avoid mentioning that Lucci was also "considerably above Luffy".



Now, I do believe Lucci was a solid chunk above Luffy at the beginning of their fight. However, the second statement isn't automatically true because of the first statement. As Luffy is not equal to Zoro, which I think we agree about (this further confuses me as to what we're arguing about).



Law said:


> In the one time where we saw what happens when Lucci goes against Zoro, we also saw Luffy owned just as easily - and yet, he came back with resolve and was much stronger. I feel as though your opinion of Zoro's gap with Lucci is based on a showing where he did no worse than Luffy himself who came back to defeat Lucci later with what most of us use as a litmus-test for what "Extreme Difficulty" means.



True. We did see both Luffy and Zoro get owned easily. But of course that doesn't mean that they would do equally well against Lucci later. I don't think you think so since you didn't explicitly state as such. But one has to assume you think so, if you find it odd for me to think that they would have very different encounters if they fought him at Enies Lobby.

Unless what you're saying is that I'm basing my conclusion off of Lucci fodderizing Zoro, which I am not. Rokushiki and feats against Luffy are much better indicators since the fight your describing happened at *Water 7*, not *Enies Lobby*.




Law said:


> Due to that, only a complete wanker would say EL Zoro wins in that fight, but even at Enies Lobby, Zoro going all-out, life on the line, would have given Lucci a "high-difficulty" fight.



Agreed. More or less, certainly on the low end of high difficulty for me (talking about EL Zoro). Much faster and much stronger. Probably goes down before he can discover Asura.




Law said:


> Let alone months later, with a much stronger weapon and raising in power in such a short amount of time on Mihawk's own island.I feel as though the only way you'd think Lucci still only needs high-difficulty to defeat him is because you let their first encounter carry far too long the error that the scene in question was truly indicative of their gap in power, whereas it wasn't for him and Luffy. And if that's the case, you must truly believe Luffy and Zoro are worlds apart.



Gladly, I don't think it would "still" take "only" high difficulty. Nor do I think their encounter was "truly indicative" of the gap in their power (at the time of Enies Lobby). Cause you know, what I think does matter when you criticize what I think.



Law said:


> So do you see why, even though our theories are similar, that they're still also...worlds apart? It's because our opinions of Zoro and interpretations of events vary so dramatically, that I'm calling your post into question. Because as I see it, giving it to Lucci high-difficulty over the Zoro that was last seen succeeding to impress Mihawk to begin training - you must believe he'd be beaten low or low-mid difficulty by Lucci in Enies Lobby, whereas Luffy beat him Extreme Difficulty. And those outcomes don't match up too well given the fact that the M3 are all decently grouped.



Alternatively, I see Lucci beating Zoro quite quickly, but acquiring quite a bit of damage (due to Zoro's style). Lucci will probably be about as beaten up as he was maybe 3/4 of the way into Luffy v. Lucci. But it would take _far_ less time for Lucci to break through Zoro's durability and resilience than it did to break through Luffy's. Whatever difficulty you want to assign to that is fine. Probably something like low-high difficulty. 

By Saboady (which, by the way, is where I take characters from when I'm describing pre-skip characters), Zoro would push that to very high difficulty. His technique is much better and he can probably keep up with Lucci's speed near perfectly. However, Lucci's damage output is still just high enough for me to lean towards him.

^What I think. Rather than what you think I think.


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## Tiger (Nov 15, 2013)

Zoro got stronger on Mihawk's island from the time he arrived to the last time we see him before the time-skip, so why would you take him from Shabondy when that's not what's being asked of you to do? Granted, you could think there's no difference, but that still wouldn't explain why you wouldn't take them from their latest incarnation.

Also, it would take Lucci a while to put enough damage on Zoro to put him down. It wouldn't be quick by any stretch of the imagination. Quick_er_, maybe, but not quick.

I don't think Zoro and Sanji "discovered" their power-ups while fighting their final opponents - they used them for the first time, definitely. It's just not Zoro's style to talk to his opponent about how he came across the idea to tap into something like Sanji did when showing Diable Jambe to Jyabura.

Perhaps I'm misremembering the scenes, but if Zoro didn't know he was capable of something like that, he sure didn't let on. It gave me the impression more that he held back his wild card until he couldn't wait any longer to end the fight in one final shot - but if he was against Lucci, I see no reason why he couldn't pull that out the moment he had an opening to use it, knowing his opponent out-classed him in attack power and speed.

Getting hit by Asura would slow Lucci down in a big hurry, making the rest of the fight a whole lot more difficult for him, and I guess I wasn't really acknowledging a bridge between high and extreme difficulty. But that still means you think from Enies Lobby until part 1 ended, Zoro would go from losing low-high diff, to losing very high diff against Lucci - and I just don't see how such a small difference is possible.

At any rate, if you're not to be convinced, then that'll be that.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Nov 15, 2013)

Lucci wins, Zoro just have Higher Durability, Lucci is still faster than him and can use shigan to fuck him up good in about every part of his body, Zoro can't get past Lucci's Tekkai that easily and Lucci has speed advantage, it will take a good time and a good fight at least Extreme Difficulty but Lucci will win because of superior speed .


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## Dunno (Nov 15, 2013)

Luffy was able to beat Lucci during EL. If Zoro wouldn't be able to after getting a new sword, going through what he did in TB, losing his companions at SA and then beating all of the monkeys on Mihawk's island, he'd have to be leagues after Luffy in strength, which he isn't. Zoro basically gets a two-arc-advantage guys, Lucci isn't winning.


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## LyricalMessiah (Nov 15, 2013)

Lucci is simply too much for Zoro for he beats him in every statistics and is also too versatile for zoro to beat. well, I thought that zoro might have had a chance against him even during that arc, simply because his fighting style seems to be more of an advantage against lucci's. His durability, Lucci, is too monstrous to say the least, tanking a Gia sado; Giganto Pistoru and barely succumbing to its destructiveness albeit suffered minor injuries to his leg.
Lucci has most of the advantages Kaku did (iron body, flexibility, speed), and Kaku was a darn tough foe.

He'd certainly have to go panther, but he's got the chops. Zoro's definitely the second strongest of the Strawhats without much doubt and could currently probably beat no-gear Luffy if he went all out, but Asura isn't quite as powerful as the Gears nor is Zoro quite as tough.

I'd think worst-case scenario, Lucci's 7th and ultimate technique would end things quicker as it even made luffy, a rubber man, bleed and spat blood.


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## LyricalMessiah (Nov 15, 2013)

Mangeykou Byakugan said:


> Zoro was able to blitz Kuma with ShiSon in an exhausted state with Shuusui
> 
> He'll have no type of trouble landing an attack on EL Lucci (which is all he'll need to end the fight)
> 
> ...



Zoro never BLITZED kuma. That is patently false and proves how you misinterpreted the scene for which shows Zoro ambushes Kuma as a form of speedblitz, even when the scene wasn't confusing; accurately showing us how Kuma thought Zoro was annihilated, later seeing zoro as an irrelevant target, thus reaching over to his main objective goal, capturing Luffy... however, right when he was able to grab Luffy and ditch thrillerbark, we see Zoro using shishi sonson on a Kuma who diverged his attention onto Luffy. Nevertheless, that was not a speedbliz from my book. If zoro were to use shishi sonson on a concentrated Kuma, he wouldn't come close to grazing him.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Nov 15, 2013)

How will Zoro tag Lucci ? To my knowledge Lucci is faster and certainly has the firepower to put Zoro down, not that will be fast, it will take a while and in this while Zoro can conect from 3 to 6 attacks but it won't be enough to kill Lucci since he has Tekkai and reactions to use Tekkai before getting cut in two .


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## Mercurial (Nov 15, 2013)

Zihawk said:


> Don't see Lucci taking this one, at the end of Thriller Bark, Zoro's feats vastly improved: dodging invisible attacks from freaking Kuma, his insane damage soak and endurance as evidenced when he absorbed all of Luffy's pain in addition to his own, and the physical strength to deflect blows from Oz. Vast improvement from his EL self. He definitely has the reaction speed to tag Lucci, he dodged Kuma's pad cannons and laser, he has the attack power to deal damage to Lucci with Asura and Shishi sonson, and damage soak and endurance that completely outclasses Lucci's
> 
> Zoro solidly beats him high diff.



Completely agree.

Zoro 100/100, high diff.


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## Vengeance (Nov 15, 2013)

Fully healed Zoro right before the ts might win with very high - extreme difficulty.



RobLucciRapes said:


> Zolo-wank
> 
> Zolo-wank
> 
> ...




^^


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## Shinthia (Nov 15, 2013)

Lucci will lose to Zolo low diff because his super duper inhuman godly growth rate and dont forget the baboons ,its all about beating baboons


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## Freechoice (Nov 15, 2013)

Lucci takes this.

Anyone who thinks otherwise can refer to my fanny for further arguments.


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## LogiaMaster666 (Nov 15, 2013)

I'm honestly stuck on this one. I used to think that EL Zoro and TB Zoro were hardly any different, but Zihawk convinced me otherwise.

Problem is that Lucci was twice as strong as Kaku, granted that was before he ate his DF, so that complicates things. If Kaku's DF made him twice as strong, then that means that Zoro could be on par with Lucci in EL, and even more likely to win at TB, but like I said, it all depends on how much stronger Kaku got with his DF.

Kaku's Douriki stayed the same (unlikely) Lucci stomps.
Kaku's Douriki gained 1.5 strength, Tough call.
Kaku's Douriki gained double strength from DF, this puts Zoro at above Lucci's level by TB.


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## Fiddlesticks (Nov 15, 2013)

Luffy = Lucci 

Luffy > Zoro 

Lucci > Zoro


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## Mr. Black Leg (Nov 15, 2013)

^ It's not that easy, since Zoro's Durability improved a lot . But I still think that Rob Lucci wins .


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## Shinthia (Nov 15, 2013)

LogiaMaster666 said:


> I'm honestly stuck on this one. I used to think that EL Zoro and TB Zoro were hardly any different, but Zihawk convinced me otherwise.
> 
> Problem is that Lucci was twice as strong as Kaku, granted that was before he ate his DF, so that complicates things. If Kaku's DF made him twice as strong, then that means that Zoro could be on par with Lucci in EL, and even more likely to win at TB, but like I said, it all depends on how much stronger Kaku got with his DF.
> 
> ...



Douriki does not include DF power.Base Lucci was 2 times stronger than base Kaku. After DF transformation that did not change at all. In fact Lucci's transformation makes him even stronger because of DF mastery.
So, if Kaku got 200% boost from DF then Lucci will get at least 201% cause Lucci mastered his DF unlike Kaku.


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## Urouge (Nov 15, 2013)

Marik Swift said:


> This.
> 
> And on another note, Luffy's win over Lucci is the most obvious and biggest plot win todate. Oda didn't even try to conceal it. Lucci pretty much had him beat and all of a sudden Luffy gets up because of Usopp's speech? Oda pretty much made Luffy into Natsu in that fight.  I mean there are other wins cause of plot, but that was made blatant by Oda.​



god I fucking hate the piss excuse for luffy's victory. you guys keep conveniently forgetting about the  buster call ship saving lucci from certain death. he was as lucky as luffy was lucky. luffy deserved his victory so get over it.


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## Kid (Nov 15, 2013)

Zoro should be able to win this.


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## Zorofangirl24 (Nov 15, 2013)

Zoro won't even go down to 10 rokougons. He took all of Luffys pain stacked on top of his own and remained conscious whereas Luffy was out just from his own pain. 
Theres nothing Lucci can do,  Asura Zoro ends this.


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## Neruc (Nov 15, 2013)

Leaning towards Lucci to win with extreme diff.


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