# SSJ2 Gohan runs a gauntlet



## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 6, 2014)

because I got hit by DB nostalgia 

 Gohan, obviously 

1) Manga Gohan
2) Anime Gohan

and the gauntlet:

1) Sora no Otoshimono
2) Highschool DxD (if they get wrecked too easily, Darth Artemis powers them with his salt)
3) Narutoverse
4) Lesbogear 
5) Unbreakable Dark 
6) Touhou
7) Super Starscream 

soundtracks:

[youtube]-drTitiF01M[/youtube]

[youtube]JiUJaflLKj0[/youtube]

let's do this


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## Imperator100 (Dec 6, 2014)

Question: Does Anime Gohan get scaling from movies that were chronologically before?


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## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 6, 2014)

nah, no movie scaling


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## Red Angel (Dec 6, 2014)

Movies aren't even canon to the anime continuity, except for Dead Zone due to the Garlic Jr arc


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## Imperator100 (Dec 6, 2014)

So Anime Gohan is basically an FTL version of his manga counterpart?


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## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 6, 2014)

yeah, though his DC could potentially be higher due to Freeza's on-screen destruction of Planet Vegeta, a 10G planet


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Dec 6, 2014)

Tentatively I'd say he makes it to 4 comfortably due to his speed and DC

Never heard of unbreakable dark so can't comment on that.

Touhou might give him problems due to the sheer amount of hax they have at their disposal


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## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 6, 2014)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> Never heard of unbreakable dark so can't comment on that.



some bitch from Nanoha

apparently a multi-planet buster with some high-end regen or someshit


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## Qinglong (Dec 6, 2014)

Manga version anyway, Anime version will have less problems afaik


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Dec 6, 2014)

That bitch might give him trouble if he can't outright crispify her like he did to Cell at the end of the Cell games, any idea how fast that bitch's regen kicks in?


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## Kazu (Dec 6, 2014)

Well, how far into FTL is anime gohan?

That might get him past touhou.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 6, 2014)

Kazu said:


> Well, how far into FTL is anime gohan?
> 
> That might get him past touhou.



probably more than ten times FTL speed due to scaling from SSJ Goku and 100% Freeza being too fast for King Kai to track, who in turn can track FTL Saiyan pods and Goku's ship heading to Namek 

there was also Goku's kamehameha speed during the sun situation, starting 

obviously that gets scaled to Freeza's death beam speed and so on


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## GearsUp (Dec 6, 2014)

the shit's still goin on as canon, theres no such thing as dbz nostalgia

yyh nostalgia maybe


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## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 6, 2014)

hi who r u


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## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 6, 2014)

anywho, I'd probably argue that manga Gohan could potentially be BFR'd by Chris, much to Kurou's joy


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## xmysticgohanx (Dec 6, 2014)

Skarbrand said:


> Movies aren't even canon to the anime continuity, except for Dead Zone due to the Garlic Jr arc


Movie 5: Cooler's Revenge is also canon due to Cooler appearing in GT.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Dec 6, 2014)

Why is std and SnO below nardo though.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 6, 2014)

because they actually are, zenath


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## ZenithXAbyss (Dec 6, 2014)

Doesn't SnO have someone with femto-second shit + planetary+ range mindhack though? 
And STD got a lot of hax + the world destruction dragons.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 6, 2014)

>femtosecond shield activation
>actually applying for their reflexes/reactions 

pick one and only one 

and STD is too slow and too weak to actually beat nardoverse which has flat-out better feats that support its own planet level hype


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## TehChron (Dec 6, 2014)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> Doesn't SnO have someone with femto-second shit + planetary+ range mindhack though?
> And STD got a lot of hax + the world destruction dragons.



STD has literally no hax and no world destruction dragons either


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## ZenithXAbyss (Dec 6, 2014)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> >femtosecond shield activation
> >actually applying for their reflexes/reactions
> 
> pick one and only one


I remember someone posting about how someone in the verse bypassed it or something.





> and STD is too slow and too weak to actually beat nardoverse which has flat-out better feats that support its own planet level hype


i'm pretty sure i remember issei dodging light based attacks later on the series. (I think against azazel and/or vali)


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## ZenithXAbyss (Dec 6, 2014)

TehChron said:


> STD has literally no hax and no world destruction dragons either



Didn't know Time Stop, death curses, vritra's tentacles, etc doesn't count as hax.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 6, 2014)

both of them are still below narutoverse and are warm-up material for Gohan, so who cares


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## ZenithXAbyss (Dec 6, 2014)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> both of them are still below narutoverse and are warm-up material for Gohan, so who cares



Well i was just asking, so...


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## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 6, 2014)

as fun as it is to think about Gohan pulling a Conquest on SnO's cast and making an armor out of Great Red Monster Hunter-style, those two settings aren't exactly where the meat of the debate lies


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Dec 6, 2014)

I can see him stopping at unbreakable dark due to her space time hax and whatnot, and since she apparently also causes destruction while regenerating according to the infodumb amae posted.


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## KaiserWombat (Dec 6, 2014)

CD, is Animu Gohan at the Cell Budokai explicitly star-busting level if we are discrediting film-based feats/powerscaling?

Because Movie #8 Broly's galaxy-cleansing crusade is the keystone to the foundation of the argument, and I'm fairly certain there's none preceding that and that the next legitimate display is with the Chibi Buu flashback, which would be..._troublesome_ to utilize here in the debate, for what I hope is a painfully obvious reason.

Mango Gohan might actually end up having the superior destructive capacity (and by proxy, durability also), if one considers the destruction of Old Namek by 70% Freeza's delayed detonation via core annihilation to be a valid demonstration of his personal firepower at work and not trippy DB-verse cosmological physics. Which would be humorous, I suppose.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 6, 2014)

KaiserWombat said:


> CD, is Animu Gohan at the Cell Budokai explicitly star-busting level if we are discrediting film-based feats/powerscaling?



AFAIK, there's really nothing substantiating that outside of movie powerscaling


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## KaiserWombat (Dec 6, 2014)

It's what I suspect to be the case, anyway

Which would mean that he can't get past the last hurdle that is Super Starscream: IIRC, it's the incarnation that survived being inside a black hole and shit, right?


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## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 6, 2014)

yeah, that's the one


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## Tom Servo (Dec 7, 2014)

Skarbrand said:


> Movies aren't even canon to the anime continuity, except for Dead Zone due to the Garlic Jr arc



And even that's arguable because it doesn't even fit in the continuity


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## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 7, 2014)

since I got nothing better to do, I might as well list all the planet busting incidents that would apply to anime Gohan





 (obviously not an actual star)

and for the hell of it, I'll include the kili levels statement



Dabura's was greater than 4000 IIRC and a weaker Gohan can match him


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## Hand Banana (Dec 7, 2014)

What is Lesbogear? Tried searching for that but it leads me here.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 7, 2014)

our nickname for symphogear


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## TheForgottenPen (Dec 7, 2014)

And what a fitting nickname it is


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## shade0180 (Dec 7, 2014)

^ agree.


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## Iwandesu (Dec 7, 2014)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> >femtosecond shield activation
> >actually applying for their reflexes/reactions
> 
> pick one and only one


V2 angeloids sensors can monitorate the shield activaction and control its speed.
does this make v2 angeloids mftl?  Hell no.
But, There is a character who is so fast that said sensors can't sense her.
So yeah... take this as you want.


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## Darth Niggatron (Dec 7, 2014)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> Doesn't SnO have someone with femto-second shit + planetary+ range mindhack though?
> And STD got a lot of hax + the world destruction dragons.



About STD, yea no. The fight between Great Red and Ophis would destroy the world, and that's all we know. It might not be in one attack, hell it might not even be planet busting.


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## Qinglong (Dec 7, 2014)

Okay So?

Not only is your attempt at equivalency hilariously wrong there's no planet busting happening in Revelations either


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Dec 7, 2014)

Jesus christ, Zenath.

That was fucking stupid even by cancerdome standards


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## ZenithXAbyss (Dec 7, 2014)

Qinglong said:


> Okay So?
> 
> Not only is your attempt at equivalency hilariously wrong there's no planet busting happening in Revelations either



Yeah, just One dragon throwing a bunch of stars to the earth.


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## Qinglong (Dec 7, 2014)

Which were angels you know?

Are you really this dumb Zenath?


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## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 7, 2014)

zenath needs a Mozgus in his life because the former is just begging to be clobbered over the head with a bible


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## ZenithXAbyss (Dec 7, 2014)

Ahyeah.


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## Louis Cyphre (Dec 8, 2014)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> Yeah, just One dragon throwing a bunch of stars to the earth.



That's a allegory to Satan and the fallen angels getting cast out of Heaven you ignorant swine.

ITT: People don't know that Revelations is basically Apostle John in a drug trip.


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## TehChron (Dec 8, 2014)

ZenithXAbyss said:


> Ahyeah.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Dec 8, 2014)

Louis Cyphre said:


> That's a allegory to Satan and the fallen angels getting cast out of Heaven you ignorant swine.
> 
> ITT: People don't know that Revelations is basically Apostle John in a drug trip.



Shut up, lois-chan.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Dec 8, 2014)

"I have no retort to being called out on being stupid so I'll just tell you to shut up"

Classic Cancerdome


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## Louis Cyphre (Dec 8, 2014)

The Bible is just too complicated to Zenath.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Dec 8, 2014)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> "I have no retort to being called out on being stupid so I'll just tell you to shut up"
> 
> Classic Cancerdome



Not really, i just want to say it.


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## NightmareCinema (Dec 8, 2014)

So what if they're based on the Book of Revelations?

Doesn't stop the STD cast from ending up like the Cell Juniors.


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## TheForgottenPen (Dec 8, 2014)

Oh my god. That set just pierces my soul.

Along with my spleen, liver, and other internal organs


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## NightmareCinema (Dec 8, 2014)

I'm sure it does, Pen.


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## Gohan (Dec 10, 2014)

Gohan should beat every single one of them.

SSJ2 Gohan was easily stronger than Super Cell. SSJ2 Gohan with 1 arm (he said he was about 50% power) was stronger than super perfect cell who was weaker than normal perfect cell. Normal perfect cell was stated in the manga to have a kamehamaeha stronger enough to destroy the entire solar system.

Can't deny concrete proof that was directly stated in the manga.


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## Qinglong (Dec 10, 2014)

That wouldn't do shit to Super Starscream even if it were true (it isn't) so no, he isn't winning all of them


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## Katsuargi (Dec 10, 2014)

I thought solar system busting cell want had been laughed out of here years ago?


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## Red Angel (Dec 10, 2014)

Gohan said:


> Gohan should beat every single one of them.
> 
> SSJ2 Gohan was easily stronger than Super Cell. SSJ2 Gohan with 1 arm (he said he was about 50% power) was stronger than super perfect cell who was weaker than normal perfect cell. *Normal perfect cell was stated in the manga to have a kamehamaeha stronger enough to destroy the entire solar system.*
> 
> Can't deny concrete proof that was directly stated in the manga.



BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! There are still people in this day and age who actually believe this? That's been cited as the _textbook definition_ of hyperbole in vs debating for years now

Like, no feats in any continuity back that up, at all, I mean good lord


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## Weather (Dec 10, 2014)

Is actually a coin toss if he can get past Touhou, but it would be mostly Reimu and maybe Moonbitches and Shinki who actually matter, we have characters like Aya at FTL and even she cannot keep up with Reimu teleport spamming, Also Fantasy Heaven should fuck every chance of Gohan actually harming her.

Btw how is Gohan's durability?, as Reimu is small star level+ and there are at least 4 characters above her.



ZenithXAbyss said:


> You know they are based on the book of revelation right?




Seriously, please shut up, Even Ishibumi claims that he actually knows nothing about Religion and just took what he liked and made it however he liked it.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 10, 2014)

Weather said:


> Is actually a coin toss if he can get past Touhou, but it would be mostly Reimu and maybe Moonbitches and Shinki who actually matter, we have characters like Aya at FTL and even she cannot keep up with Reimu teleport spamming, Also Fantasy Heaven should fuck every chance of Gohan actually harming her.



anime Gohan is waaaaaaayyyyyy the fuck past Namek Arc SSJ Goku and 100% Freeza, who were too fast for King Kai to track, same King Kai who can track FTL craft 

plus Goku's likely FTL kamehameha in that filler ep where he was about to get dunked into the sun during his trip to Namek 

true form Freeza's death beams > that in speed, which pre-SSJ Goku can react to



> Btw how is Gohan's durability?, as Reimu is small star level+ and there are at least 4 characters above her.



manga Gohan is large planet level+, same for anime Gohan



> Seriously, please shut up, Even Ishibumi claims that he actually knows nothing about Religion and just took what he liked and made it however he liked it.



mfw even the one who white knights STD tells zenath to shut up


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## Weather (Dec 10, 2014)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> anime Gohan is waaaaaaayyyyyy the fuck past Namek Arc SSJ Goku and 100% Freeza, who were too fast for King Kai to track, same King Kai who can track FTL craft
> 
> plus Goku's likely FTL kamehameha in that filler ep where he was about to get dunked into the sun during his trip to Namek
> 
> true form Freeza's death beams > that in speed, which pre-SSJ Goku can react to



Namek FTL speeds were like 10x FTL or something right? So yeah... fucking fast.



Crimson Dragoon said:


> manga Gohan is large planet level+, same for anime Gohan



But still killable with an attack from the high-top tiers, and if Reimu pulls Fantasy Heaven on time then there goes Gohan's chance of winning out of the window.

So like I said, a coin toss, unless he can blitz an entire verse... and he is vulnerable to some other haxes, like insta-death, BFR and such.



Crimson Dragoon said:


> mfw even the one who white knights STD tells zenath to shut up



If people are gonna defend series I like, at least do it right.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 10, 2014)

Weather said:


> So like I said, a coin toss, unless he can blitz an entire verse... and he is vulnerable to some other haxes, like insta-death, BFR and such.



he wouldn't really need to blitz all of them is the thing 

Gohan can just lob high-speed ki blasts with impunity and let the splash damage do most of the work


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## Weather (Dec 10, 2014)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> he wouldn't really need to blitz all of them is the thing
> 
> Gohan can just lob high-speed ki blasts with impunity and let the splash damage do most of the work



Depending where the fight takes place... if the fight takes place in the Touhouverse... then no not really.

There is the Netherworld, Makai, Senkai, Moon Capital, and wherever the fuck the Dragon God lives, just simply bombarding Gensokyo will not end it.

And still does nothing against Fantasy Heaven if he doesn't go for Reimu... fast, which at that point Gohan loses.

Also characters like Yukari could simply gap away... alongside most of the verse given they can react.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 10, 2014)

do their attacks have interdimensional range?

if so, you have a point 

if not, going out to attack him would still be dicey if he's in a ki spamming mood


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## Weather (Dec 10, 2014)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> do their attacks have interdimensional range?
> 
> if so, you have a point
> 
> if not, going out to attack him would still be dicey if he's in a ki spamming mood



For Reimu that's the whole point, she attacks while you cannot do anything to her.

Yukari pretty much yeah, given she has affected two dimension at the same time (Gensokyo/Netherworld), Yuyuko should as well, there is no evidence of her even leaving the Netherworld before PCB, and given her powers don't work on the Netherworld (because being there is the same as being dead)

Even low-high tiers like Miko can establish their own dimensions (She made a place on Senkai from Gensokyo and the moved there)

And for the Dragon God... dimensions mean nothing anyway.


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## Solar (Dec 10, 2014)

Touhou related + posting for peer review:


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## Amae (Dec 10, 2014)

He likely stops at 5 due to not being able to kill U-D indefinitely. She can regen without a body and does so with energy from other dimensions. Extensions of her were shown regenerating in some pocket dimension after their bodies disappeared. 

He has an overwhelming speed advantage but they otherwise have similar power output/durability. She can connect space across dimensions by making a small portal, so she has alternative ways of killing him to counter his speed.


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## Gohan (Dec 11, 2014)

Skarbrand said:


> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! There are still people in this day and age who actually believe this? That's been cited as the _textbook definition_ of hyperbole in vs debating for years now
> 
> Like, no feats in any continuity back that up, at all, I mean good lord



People claim it to be a hyperbole but that doesn't make sense at all. Examples of hyperboles are "My grandmother is as old as the hills.
Your suitcase weighs a ton!
She is as heavy as an elephant!"

In the english language noone has ever referenced the solar system when trying to make a hyperbole. Just because cell hasnt shown feats to demonstrate this destruction of this magnitutde doesn't mean you can make up excuses for his statement. This is a manga and the story must go on, people can't be destroying solar systems like that. Therefore the only way for the author to indicate to us cell's power is through these statements.

Hyperbole is meant for a humorous effect and clearly there was no humour intended in that scene at all.

Cell claimed solar system busting and all the DBZ fighters didnt seem to doubt him nor claim he was bluffing at all yet somehow a couple of debaters on here can claim they know more than goku or gohan in judging cell's power.

Cell didn't even need to claim solar system busting he could just say planet busting and that would achieve the same effect in that Gohan had to stop him either way. Cell said solar system busting because that was the authors intention of stating his potential power.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Dec 11, 2014)

Weather said:


> Is actually a coin toss if he can get past Touhou, but it would be mostly Reimu and maybe Moonbitches and Shinki who actually matter, we have characters like Aya at FTL and even she cannot keep up with Reimu teleport spamming, Also Fantasy Heaven should fuck every chance of Gohan actually harming her.
> 
> Btw how is Gohan's durability?, as Reimu is small star level+ and there are at least 4 characters above her.
> 
> ...



Like i give enough fucks to read the author notes(i'm guessing it came from that).


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## SSMG (Dec 11, 2014)

Weather said:


> Namek FTL speeds were like 10x FTL or something right? So yeah... fucking fast.



It should be much much MUCH faster than that.
Here's the distance to the closest galaxy.
2.538 million light years to the closest galaxy.



And then we can take 365(days in a year) divide it by 6(took six days to get to Namek from earth) which equals 60.8333 the multiply that by the 2.538 million light years distance. It equals out be 153million times light speed.


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## Red Angel (Dec 11, 2014)

Gohan said:


> People claim it to be a hyperbole but that doesn't make sense at all. Examples of hyperboles are "My grandmother is as old as the hills.
> Your suitcase weighs a ton!
> She is as heavy as an elephant!"



Hyperbole is blatant exaggeration of something. That is all



> In the english language noone has ever referenced the solar system when trying to make a hyperbole.



There's always a first time for everything



> Just because cell hasnt shown feats to demonstrate this destruction of this magnitutde doesn't mean you can make up excuses for his statement. This is a manga and the story must go on, people can't be destroying solar systems like that. Therefore the only way for the author to indicate to us cell's power is through these statements.



"The author put it there so it must be true!"

No, a fallible character made a fallible statement

Oh and for the record, vs debating 101 on anywhere that's not MVC: You *never* accept statements unless they're backed up by feats, at all. Why does DBZ get off scott free?



> Hyperbole is meant for a humorous effect and clearly there was no humour intended in that scene at all.



eh oh fucking el



> Cell claimed solar system busting and all the DBZ fighters didnt seem to doubt him nor claim he was bluffing at all yet somehow a couple of debaters on here can claim they know more than goku or gohan in judging cell's power.



Oh god not this stupid shit again. Nobody nitpicked him so he must be telling the truth, are you fucking serious right now?

What did you expect Gohan to pull a MysteriousMrEnter on Cell when he claimed it?



> Cell didn't even need to claim solar system busting he could just say planet busting and that would achieve the same effect in that Gohan had to stop him either way. Cell said solar system busting because that was the authors intention of stating his potential power.



For all intents and purposes authors intent don't mean shit here

Unless it's inconsistencies like being hurt by small rocks or some pithy heat, we tend to operate under the "suspension of disbelief" method


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## SSBMonado (Dec 11, 2014)

To be fair, didn't Vegeta call bullshit on Freeza claiming that his second form had a power level of 1 million?
So characters calling bluffs isn't unprecedented

That being said, it would be kind of redundant for Whis to boast about Beerus being able to wipe out solar systems if even someone as (by comparison) pathetically weak as Cell could already do the same


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 11, 2014)

four fucking years and your arguments haven't changed? They're still monstrously biased..and largely full of bullshit.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 11, 2014)

"I am facing impending death so the best thing I can do would be to nerd out and say it's impossible for him to solar system bust" 

ugh, I thought we got rid of this fucker years ago

it's never the good posters that come back


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 11, 2014)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> "I am facing impending death so the best thing I can do would be to nerd out and say it's impossible for him to solar system bust"
> 
> ugh, I thought we got rid of this fucker years ago[



Don't forget Cell a character who didn't even know the full extent of his own abilities and openly admitted he inherited both Freiza and the various Saiyans mental instability and egotism is a sentient super computer objective enough to accurately calculate how much of his own power (power he didn't even know he was going to have a few issues prior ) would be required to frag a solar system!

clearly we must take his statement and the lack of refutation by a severely maimed and emotionally devastated eleven year old in fear for his life as valid proof!





Crimson Dragoon said:


> it's never the good posters that come back



At least it isn't asshat himself coming back but only his retarded follower


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## Red Angel (Dec 11, 2014)

He claimed he could use a Genki Dama, he feared Android 16 self destructing would kill him, only acting all nonchalantly when he discovered 16's bomb had been removed didn't know about most of the abilities he had (like regeneration, transformation to Super Perfect Cell, etc) until they fucking happened

Yet, we're supposed to take his word as a fucking gentleman when he claims he could bust a solar system

Grade A logic


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## Gohan (Dec 11, 2014)

Skarbrand said:


> Hyperbole is blatant exaggeration of something. That is all
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah how convenient Cell just invented the first use of the solar system hyperbole in the history of the english language. There is no evidence of him using a hyperbole at all. Prove that he intended to use a hyperbole. Just because he has never destroyed a solar system before = hyperbole? haha good one that means before luffy said he would defeat lucci during enies lobby at that time in the manga = hyperbole because before that chapter he has never shown feats to defeat someone as strong as lucci, infact the opposite lucci one shotted him.

It's no hyperbole at all, why didn't toriyama just use planet buster. Cell can destroy a solar system and it's stated in the manga, that's all there is to it. There was no indication of bluffing or exaggeration in *the context of the manga *. If goku or gohan was doubting cell or cell showed signs that he had to exaggerate then that would be evidence that it wasn't a hyperbole. If there are no signs of that then you're just refusing to accept facts because you yourself cant believe such a feat.


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## Red Angel (Dec 11, 2014)

Gohan said:


> Yeah how convenient Cell just invented the first use of the solar system hyperbole in the history of the english language.



That was a joke



> There is no evidence of him using a hyperbole at all. Prove that he intended to use a hyperbole. Just because he has never destroyed a solar system before = hyperbole?



blah blah blah shifting the burden of proof

Also, that's retarded, nobody with a double digit IQ buys that Cell can bust the solar system *because he has never actually fucking done so*. Nor have far stronger characters unitl you get to Berrus and Whis



> haha good one that means before luffy said he would defeat lucci during enies lobby at that time in the manga = hyperbole because before that chapter he has never shown feats to defeat someone as strong as lucci, infact the opposite lucci one shotted him.



Don't read One Piece so no comment, though pretty sure that's a pretty shit analogy



> It's no hyperbole at all, why didn't toriyama just use planet buster.



Sorry, perhaps you didn't hear me. Author's intent is irrelevant



> Cell can destroy a solar system and it's stated in the manga, that's all there is to it.



"Bu-he said it! It MUST be true"

No, no it doesn't. Unless there are feats to back it, then it doesn't count as evidence, especially from an unreliable character who has the DNA of two massive braggarts who overestimate their power (Vegeta and Freiza), plus the other stuff in the comments

And no, fallible character making fallible statement, suspension of disbelief



> There was no indication of bluffing or exaggeration in *the context of the manga *. If goku or gohan was doubting cell or cell showed signs that he had to exaggerate then that would be evidence that it wasn't a hyperbole. If there are no signs of that then you're just refusing to accept facts because you yourself cant believe such a feat.



That's retarded. If a thug came up to me, threatened me and said he could crush every bone in my body by poking me, I wouldn't nitpick his ass now would I, nobody else would nitpick him and lecture him about how human strength isn't on that tier would they?

No, if a character makes a claim, you need a feat to back it, otherwise, it's worthless. vs debating 101


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## AgentAAA (Dec 11, 2014)

Gohan said:


> YYeah how convenient Cell just invented the first use of the solar system hyperbole in the history of the english language. There is no evidence of him using a hyperbole at all. Prove that he intended to use a hyperbole. Just because he has never destroyed a solar system before = hyperbole? haha good one that means before luffy said he would defeat lucci during enies lobby at that time in the manga = hyperbole because before that chapter he has never shown feats to defeat someone as strong as lucci, infact the opposite lucci one shotted him.
> 
> It's no hyperbole at all, why didn't toriyama just use planet buster. Cell can destroy a solar system and it's stated in the manga, that's all there is to it. There was no indication of bluffing or exaggeration in *the context of the manga *. If goku or gohan was doubting cell or cell showed signs that he had to exaggerate then that would be evidence that it wasn't a hyperbole. If there are no signs of that then you're just refusing to accept facts because you yourself cant believe such a feat.


Lel. Because anyone in real life has a reason to say "I can blow up a solar system.". Note we actually took Bills statement seriously later because he has the actual power to manage it.
None of these arguments are anything new. And most have been debunked. Cell didn't know the extent of his powers, Goku and Gohan were more worried about the fact he'd just came back out of nowhere than they were about correcting him on a claim that, honestly, probably didn't matter to them regarding factuality.

Gohan's not going to spend time going "Hey wait that's not right, you're only able to destroy this many yottatons of matter" when what he DID have to throw around was - more than gohan did. As long as Cell blew up the planet it didn't particularly matter to either of them whether the sun or other numerous uninhabited planets also went poof.

Cell is a character prone to grandstanding constantly. Claiming he can blow up a solar system when he can't is right up his alley.


----------



## Fujita (Dec 11, 2014)

Well, I'm not fond of how we tend to take "hyperbole" to mean "character talking out of their ass" because that's not really what it is

but "there's no solar system hyperbole in the English language" is a weak argument

Something doesn't have to be an everyday figure of speech to be a hyperbole, it just has to be an exaggerated statement. 



Skarbrand said:


> Don't read One Piece so no comment, though pretty sure that's a pretty shit analogy



It is. Luffy got his ass kicked the first time around against Lucci, then proceeds to fight evenly with him and eventually win (even though "feats" might have led us to predict otherwise). 

It's not a good argument on two levels: one, we're comparing a situation where we later get feats and one where we don't. I don't know why the comparison was made, because Luffy being true to his word doesn't have any bearing on Cell being true to his. Two, that's... still not a hyperbole. Luffy meant it to be quite literal, and given that his side was currently waging a war against Enies Lobby and CP9 had taken one of Luffy's crew prisoner? There is zero reason to believe he didn't mean his words. Now, he could have been _wrong_, but that doesn't make his statement hyperbolic, just... wrong.


----------



## SSBMonado (Dec 11, 2014)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> "I am facing impending death so the best thing I can do would be to nerd out and say it's impossible for him to solar system bust"
> 
> ugh, I thought we got rid of this fucker years ago
> 
> it's never the good posters that come back




Hey, it might happen in DBZ abridged.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 11, 2014)

Skarbrand said:


> He claimed he could use a Genki Dama, he feared Android 16 self destructing would kill him, only acting all nonchalantly when he discovered 16's bomb had been removed didn't know about most of the abilities he had (like regeneration, transformation to Super Perfect Cell, etc) until they fucking happened
> 
> Yet, we're supposed to take his word as a fucking gentleman when he claims he could bust a solar system
> 
> Grade A logic



you forgot ;someone who openly admitted he was more than a little crazy 



Gohan said:


> Yeah how convenient Cell just invented the first use of the solar system hyperbole in the history of the english language



You know, for someone who prides himself on showcasing supposed superior intellect you sure come off as complete idiot.

Cell was exaggerating, running off ego and rage and certainly had no fucking clue what it would take to do that he was suggesting.






Gohan said:


> ]There is no evidence of him using a hyperbole at all. Prove that he intended to use a hyperbole. Just because he has never destroyed a solar system before = hyperbole? haha good one that means before luffy said he would defeat lucci during enies lobby at that time in the manga = hyperbole because before that chapter he has never shown feats to defeat someone as strong as lucci, infact the opposite lucci one shotted him.



Pretty sure you're deliberately misleading people here. 





Gohan said:


> It's no hyperbole at all, why didn't toriyama just use planet buster. Cell can destroy a solar system and it's stated in the manga, that's all there is to it. There was no indication of bluffing or exaggeration in *the context of the manga *. If goku or gohan was doubting cell or cell showed signs that he had to exaggerate then that would be evidence that it wasn't a hyperbole. If there are no signs of that then you're just refusing to accept facts because you yourself cant believe such a feat.



...Are you seriously saying a terrified, crippled, eleven year old losing loads of blood and focused solely on saving his family and friends not stopping to refute the gigantic bug monster who is threatening to kill everyone he loves is valid proof that Cell wasn't full of shit?

Are you seriously arguing Cell is a reliable character at all?

wow..i take it back, four years away have actively made you worse



Imperator100 said:


> So Anime Gohan is basically an FTL version of his manga counterpart?



he'd also be a high end class 100. Not fully on Gladz and Supes and Thors level but he was solidly above Goku and Kid Buu who were rearranging continents and causing new mountain ranges to form as side affect of punching each other too hard.


----------



## Red Angel (Dec 12, 2014)

> Well, I'm not fond of how we tend to take "hyperbole" to mean "character talking out of their ass" because that's not really what it is



Huh, well that'd sound more accurate. Still i'd take that definition over spergifailj's definition of 'hyperbole', being "I'll just throw out that term to handwave away any feats I dislike and violate my preconceptions of said character/verse"



> you forgot ;someone who openly admitted he was more than a little crazy



That and being formed from the DNA of Vegeta and Freiza, two massively arrogant braggarts who overestimated their power and were prone to grandstanding their abilities


----------



## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 12, 2014)

Wasn't Cell Solar system busting feat backed up by the databooks?



Guide book states: "An aura with sparks like flashes of lightning and an upright, combative hairstyle are the distinguishing features of this, the strongest Saiyan warrior! One's personality also becomes aggressive; even the ordinarily gentle Gohan started to enjoy battle! Its power is enough to push back even Cell's energy bullet, which had enough force to blow away the Solar System!"


----------



## Red Angel (Dec 12, 2014)

Oh good lord not this bullshit again. Databooks don't override on panel magna evidence and feats

Christ, didn't we laugh at Cygnus or whoever it was for advocating this several years ago? Yeah, not seeing why we'd go back on our word now of all times


----------



## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 12, 2014)

The statements do not override it. It supports it. The way I see it, the anti-dbz fans are the only ones overriding on panel manga evidence and feats with their, "If I don't see it, I don't believe it" statements  .


----------



## shade0180 (Dec 12, 2014)

databooks


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## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 12, 2014)

I don't think that dude knows the meaning of override. pish!


----------



## Red Angel (Dec 12, 2014)

> Wasn't Cell Solar system busting feat backed up by the databooks?



Better question would be, why have you not been banned like various sign up trolls like yourself have god knows how many times previously?



> The statements don't override it. It supports it



Too bad absolutely nothing else does, namely feats of massively superior characters until you get to Beerus and Whis



> The way I see it, the anti-dbz fans are the only ones overriding on panel manga evidence and feats with their, "If I don't see it, I don't believe it" statements .



Oh yes, how silly of me, I forgot, to be a DBZ fan you have to have the opinion that "EVERYTHING IS FLAWLESS 100% OF THE TIME EVERYTHING IS LEGIT HOW DARE YOU, YOU BIASAED H8ER!!!!111!!!"

Gotta love how he admits to his judgement being heavily effected due to his DNA from beings like Frieza and the Saiyans, claims he can't be killed when getting his ass seriously kicked by SSJ2 Gohan, or didn't know he could transform in SPC or regen from anything as long as his "core" remained intact until such things actually fucking happened, or claimed he could use a Genki Dama when he was blatantly not pure of heart, or feared Android 16 self destructing would kill him, only acting nonchalantly when he finds out Android 16's bomb was removed, but according to DBZtards, we have to take his word as a gentleman when he claims he can bust a solar system because nobody went MysteriousMrEnter mode on him and nitpicked him when the lives of everybody and the existence of the planet were threatened were far more pressing concerns

But you know, it's cool, by all means, keep believing a one off statement from an unreliable character supported only be an unreliable source over actual on panel evidence while debating characters you can clearly debate for from an objective standpoint and use actual feats over extrapolations

Or, on a less sarcastic note, don't bother us while you're still a chronic masturbator for DBZ mmmkay?


----------



## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 12, 2014)

Skarbrand said:


> Too bad absolutely nothing else does, namely feats of massively superior characters until you get to Beerus and Whis


So? It's an off panel source. Definitely enough for me.




Skarbrand said:


> Oh yes, how silly of me, I forgot, to be a DBZ fan you have to have the opinion that "EVERYTHING IS FLAWLESS 100% OF THE TIME EVERYTHING IS LEGIT HOW DARE YOU, YOU BIASAED H8ER!!!!111!!!"
> Gotta love how he admits to his judgement being heavily effected due to his DNA from beings like Frieza and the Saiyans, claims he can't be killed when getting his ass seriously kicked by SSJ2 Gohan, or didn't know he could transform in SPC or regen from anything as long as his "core" remained intact until such things actually fucking happened, or claimed he could use a Genki Dama when he was blatantly not pure of heart, or feared Android 16 self destructing would kill him, only acting nonchalantly when he finds out Android 16's bomb was removed, but according to DBZtards, we have to take his word as a gentleman when he claims he can bust a solar system because nobody went MysteriousMrEnter mode on him and nitpicked him when the lives of everybody and the existence of the planet were threatened were far more pressing concerns
> 
> But you know, it's cool, by all means, keep believing a one off statement from an unreliable source over actual on panel evidence while debating characters you can clearly debate for from an objective standpoint and use actual feats over extrapolations
> ...



I'm not seeing anything official with fan opinion/calcs (ps. nothing in the manga states that Cell was prone to hyping what he can do) tho'. I usually like to rely more on more official looking stuff...like the databooks 
On a side note: I have seen others mention that the databooks were fan made stuff, but the interviews to AT were made by AT himself. So I really am a bit confused, I am open to lessons tho'


----------



## AgentAAA (Dec 12, 2014)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> The statements do not override it. It supports it. The way I see it, the anti-dbz fans are the only ones overriding on panel manga evidence and feats with their, "If I don't see it, I don't believe it" statements  .



are we on to the "They're just haters" phase of this shit now?
It's amazing that despite the fact that most people on here are actually fans of DBZ that this accusation has been thrown around so much.
"Not wanking it to hell and back" does not make someone Anti-DBZ or some shit.


----------



## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 12, 2014)

Skarbrand said:


> Better question would be, why have you not been banned like various sign up trolls like yourself have god knows how many times previously?



I don't know about me, but I know you got banned for like two/three days when you overreacted and jumped on me before. I completely understand why as well.


----------



## Red Angel (Dec 12, 2014)

> So? It's an off panel source. Definitely enough for me.



Databooks are only secondary canon at best

Too bad actual on panel evidence and context, and feats from massively superior characters like, say, Buu, come out to a hell of alot less (best calc for Buu came out at low end small star busting or whatever, massive far cry from solar system busting

Same reason the Nardo databooks have been laughed out of here since 2006



> blah blah same debunked rehashed shit you'd hear from your average DBZtard at MVC or KMC



Yeah, when you can provide any actual feats (only things that matter) that support said one off statement from the most unreliable character in the series, come back then



> but the interviews to AT were made by AT himself



For all intent and purposes here, author's intent is worthless

Eg. GRR Martin thinks that Jaime Lannister can beat fucking C'Thulhu (sp?)

Some Marvel author thinks Wolverine can beat Superman

You realise WoG means fuck all without actual feats to back it?


----------



## Red Angel (Dec 12, 2014)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> I don't know about me, but I know you got banned for like two/three days when you overreacted and jumped on me before. I completely understand why as well.



Wouldn't be an OBD first when a quality member gets banned for refusing to put up with the shit of a sign up troll such as yourself

Eh, don't worry, I'm sure the mods will have their way with you given time



> "Not wanking it to hell and back" does not make someone Anti-DBZ or some shit.



Oh but AgentAAA, didn;t you know, you have to blindly swallow the highest end most fanwanked interpretation of DBZ, if you don't you're a super biased hater who sucks Superman's balls


----------



## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 12, 2014)

AgentAAA said:


> are we on to the "They're just haters" phase of this shit now?
> It's amazing that despite the fact that most people on here are actually fans of DBZ that this accusation has been thrown around so much.
> "Not wanking it to hell and back" does not make someone Anti-DBZ or some shit.



Okay, maybe Anti-dbz is too strong of a word. Let's just put it up to the statement "fans" instead. But I have to admit, the databooks sounds convincing. 
Take a look at it this way, we have two fans with different opinions. One group thinks he can actually solar system bust, the other one things it's all just hype. Both have their own calcs/proof/statements to these (using on panel showings and their own explanations)
The argument goes on forever...

The way I see it, nobody is right and/or wrong.

Then I bring in the databooks, to support one group, and yes, that's just what I'm doing.


----------



## Red Angel (Dec 12, 2014)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> Okay, maybe Anti-dbz is too strong of a word. Let's just put it up to the statement "fans" instead. But I have to admit, the databooks sounds convincing.
> Take a look at it this way, we have two fans with different opinions. One group thinks he can actually solar system bust, the other one things it's all just hype. Both have their own calcs/proof/statements to these.
> The way I see it, nobody is right and/or wrong.
> Then I bring in the databooks, to support one group, and yes, that's just what I'm doing.



.... Is this a fucking serious statement? Like, this fucking happened?

Surely it's a joke post at best?


----------



## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 12, 2014)

Skarbrand said:


> .... Is this a fucking serious statement? Like, this fucking happened?



Well, you guys keep saying you're right and they're wrong. Then the other groups keep saying "nah, it's the other way around". I must admit that your (groups) statements sounds a lot stronger, more valid and more aggressive, but I def can't deny the other group's statement just because of that. Who are we supposed to believe?

It's like adding fuel to the fire man....what would you guys be without me? You wouldn't be on good terms with Fang if I wasn't here...and woudln't have a happy Christmas for a few hours in the net


----------



## Red Angel (Dec 12, 2014)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> *Well, you guys keep saying you're right and they're wrong*. Then the other groups keep saying "nah, it's the other way around". I must admit that your (groups) statements sounds a lot stronger, more valid and more aggressive, but I def can't deny the other group's statement just because of that. *Who are we supposed to believe?*
> 
> It's like adding fuel to the fire man....what would you guys be without me? *You wouldn't be on good terms with Fang* and have a happy Christmas for a few hours in the net





Probably because, you know, we are right, this shit's been debunked for years on end

Maybe the guys who have on panel evidence and know there's a lack of feats in any continuity anywhere that support this? Over the guy who only has..... something from a secondary and questionable at best source. Gee, toughest question ever, what answer do I choose guys :impliedfacepalm

Why wouldn't we be on good terms with Fang now? What the fuck are you even going on about now?


----------



## Red Angel (Dec 12, 2014)

I mean, Kid Buu's Death Ball destroyed the Earth "10 times over", and he wasn't exactly holding back by any stretch, Goku and Vegeta were powerless to stop it

But a far weaker character is now some kind of solar system buster


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 12, 2014)

ten times was just a dub line, just to note

otherwise, continue the lynching


----------



## Red Angel (Dec 12, 2014)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> ten times was just a dub line, just to note
> 
> otherwise, continue the lynching



Fair enough. But you should all get the idea


----------



## Iwandesu (Dec 12, 2014)

feat wise kid buu vanishing ball could have destroyed earth billions of times over.
regardless this is still a plank when compared to actual solar system busting so yeah...
SS level cell would arguable be an outlier even if it was a thing (it is not)


----------



## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 12, 2014)

Anime Buu is a galaxy buster on an extended time line, and it did happen. So tough luck there kiddos.


----------



## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Dec 12, 2014)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> Anime Buu is a galaxy buster on an extended time line



What the hell does that even mean?


----------



## NightmareCinema (Dec 12, 2014)

It means anime Buu is not a galaxy buster and that the guy is being an idiot once again.


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 12, 2014)

not to mention completely irrelevant in a thread with just Cell Games Gohan in it


----------



## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 12, 2014)

Umm.. people were talking about Buu in the last few pages.
Anyway , here is the anime scene where Buu destroys the galaxy. 
 = Starts at 2:18 (ignore the music part)


----------



## NightmareCinema (Dec 12, 2014)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> not to mention completely irrelevant in a thread with just Cell Games Gohan in it



Pretty much.


----------



## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 12, 2014)

NightmareCinema said:


> Pretty much.



Post numbers 101, 102, 103, 104 were talking about Buu. I was just replying to their statements tho'


----------



## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 12, 2014)

Also, in relation to statements in the manga saying he destroys hundreds of planets in a few years...well, it was actually a translation error.

together with Majin Buu destroys stars and planets.

Long ago, the sorcerer Bibidy destroys stars and planets with Majin Buu and at last they came even to Earth."


raw manga was really saying that kidbuu really destroyed planets and stars.

credits: Guren no heya kara


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 12, 2014)

...what you're posting is the mistranslation itself

you know what, I'll just sum this up with a vid 

[YOUTUBE]tXm6F-K6Ffo[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 12, 2014)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> ...what you're posting is the mistranslation itself
> 
> you know what, I'll just sum this up with a vid
> 
> [YOUTUBE]tXm6F-K6Ffo[/YOUTUBE]



What about the explosions that "actually" happened?
Also, I hate your cheapshot.


----------



## NightmareCinema (Dec 12, 2014)

No arguments are needed because the Buu Saga is a complete non-factor in this match.


----------



## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 12, 2014)

NightmareCinema said:


> No arguments are needed because the Buu Saga is a complete non-factor in this match.


Fair enough. But just in my defense, I'll have you know that I was on the argument topic the entire time.
Or are you going to ignore posts 101, 102, 103 and 104?


----------



## NightmareCinema (Dec 12, 2014)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> Fair enough. But just in my defense, I'll have you know that I was on the argument topic the entire time.
> Or are you going to ignore posts 101, 102, 103 and 104?



Who honestly gives a fuck.

The thread is about Cell Saga Gohan.

Not whether anime Buu is a galaxy buster or not.


----------



## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 12, 2014)

NightmareCinema said:


> Who honestly gives a fuck.


Not you that's for sure. 



NightmareCinema said:


> The thread is about Cell Saga Gohan.
> 
> Not whether anime Buu is a galaxy buster or not.


The irony here is that it's already off topic when people were very willing to talk if Buu can destroy Earth, but don't wanna talk about some other things upgraded to a notch that "actually supports the questions of the debate (if you were reading the past few pages that is)".


----------



## shade0180 (Dec 12, 2014)

> Umm.. people were talking about Buu in the last few pages.
> Anyway , here is the anime scene where Buu destroys the galaxy.
> = Starts at 2:18 (ignore the music part)



> anime
> evidence


----------



## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 12, 2014)

shade0180 said:


> > anime
> > evidence


You don't wanna talk about anime, I get it. 
Also..


Crimson Dragoon said:


> because I got hit by DB nostalgia
> 
> Gohan, obviously
> .......
> ...


try again....


----------



## NightmareCinema (Dec 12, 2014)

shade0180 said:


> > anime
> > evidence



They're talking specifically about the anime version, Shade. Which is more powerful than the original manga counterpart.

So, yeah. Not that it makes creyzi's "arguments" any less retarded because the galaxy didn't disappear in one shot. Best you can take out of that is that Buu can easily destroy stars.


----------



## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 12, 2014)

NightmareCinema said:


> ....Buu can easily destroy stars.



EDIT:


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 12, 2014)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> Wasn't Cell Solar system busting feat backed up by the databooks?
> 
> 
> 
> Guide book states: "An aura with sparks like flashes of lightning and an upright, combative hairstyle are the distinguishing features of this, the strongest Saiyan warrior! One's personality also becomes aggressive; even the ordinarily gentle Gohan started to enjoy battle! Its power is enough to push back even Cell's energy bullet, which had enough force to blow away the Solar System!"



That's awesome, secondary canon from an unreliable piece of material is giving you something that backs up a statement made by someone who was absolutely full of crap?

You think this is valid?



AgentAAA said:


> are we on to the "They're just haters" phase of this shit now?
> It's amazing that despite the fact that most people on here are actually fans of DBZ that this accusation has been thrown around so much.
> "Not wanking it to hell and back" does not make someone Anti-DBZ or some shit.



You have to understand, to quote Spergjira on spacebattles "Unless you think DBZ is the strongest out there, then you aren't a true fan just a puppet of the anti dbz comics mafia"





creyzi4zb12 said:


> Okay, maybe Anti-dbz is too strong of a word. Let's just put it up to the statement "fans" instead. But I have to admit, the databooks sounds convincing.



These are the same databooks that gave a nuke the PL of a tank and called Yamcha a werewolf...



creyzi4zb12 said:


> Take a look at it this way, we have two fans with different opinions. One group thinks he can actually solar system bust, the other one things it's all just hype. Both have their own calcs/proof/statements to these (using on panel showings and their own explanations)
> The argument goes on forever...







creyzi4zb12 said:


> Well, you guys keep saying you're right and they're wrong. Then the other groups keep saying "nah, it's the other way around". I must admit that your (groups) statements sounds a lot stronger, more valid and more aggressive, but I def can't deny the other group's statement just because of that. Who are we supposed to believe?



You know what makes me sad? that throughout this part of your post there's a distinct lack of "I, Creyz have at no point reexamined the source material for myself and after spending some analyzing it, memorizing it and familiarizing myself with the feats therein.,.have come to my own conclusion!"

it's either arrot the twits in the mental hospital over yonder, or parrot us.


creyzi4zb12 said:


> The way I see it, nobody is right and/or wrong.
> 
> Then I bring in the databooks, to support one group, and yes, that's just what I'm doing.



wut?


creyzi4zb12 said:


> It's like adding fuel to the fire man....what would you guys be without me? You wouldn't be on good terms with Fang if I wasn't here...and woudln't have a happy Christmas for a few hours in the net



...the martyr the OBD needs



creyzi4zb12 said:


> Anime Buu is a galaxy buster on an extended time line, and it did happen. So tough luck there kiddos.



that was said in a flash back, and the canonically superior kid buu wasn't able to come even remotely close to one percent of the power needed to spike pink lightening across a galaxy...



Agent Washington said:


> What the hell does that even mean?



I think he's saying Buu can release an energy wave that travels slower than light but still eradicates large portions of a galaxy?



creyzi4zb12 said:


> Umm.. people were talking about Buu in the last few pages.
> Anyway , here is the anime scene where Buu destroys the galaxy.
> = Starts at 2:18 (ignore the music part)



...a flash back..is..not evidence especially when its contradicted by,...well the entire god damn saga really.


----------



## Iwandesu (Dec 12, 2014)

while he is full of bs you are wrong on some of your points


The Immortal WatchDog said:


> that was said in a flash back, *and the canonically superior kid buu* wasn't able to come even remotely close to one percent of the power needed to spike pink lightening across a galaxy...


kid buu is among the weakest buu.
the only reason fat buu was below him was due to dai kaioshin's ki supressing him.
also the claim was refering to the kid buu iirc so the point is moot.
being a flashback or not in no way stop it from being a feat.


> I think he's saying Buu can release an energy wave that travels slower than light but still eradicates large portions of a galaxy?


only that anime dbz is actually largely ftl to arguable mftl going by feats (at least namek ships are definitely mftl)
regardless kid is no galaxy buster.


> ...a flash back..is..not evidence especially when its contradicted by,...well the entire god damn saga really.


only it is.
there is a reason to why kid buu is not a galaxy buster and the reason is that he isn't  busting the galaxy on said gif.

he just empties it from its celestials bodies within an unknown timeframe.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 12, 2014)

kid buu in the anime was flat out said by the kai's to be stronger than backed this up by beating the fat one into a pulp.

and that gif proves what exactly? Again it occurred within a flash back and its vague as fuck


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 12, 2014)

regarding the anime:

Kid Buu > Fat Buu (Complete) > Evil Buu > Mr. Buu 

the flashback isn't that vague, though the vagueness from how impressive the feat actually is comes from the fact that it took a "few years" to accomplish 

this is all, of course, extremely irrelevant to this thread


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 12, 2014)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> regarding the anime:
> 
> Kid Buu > Fat Buu (Complete) > Evil Buu > Mr. Buu
> 
> ...



I don't think Kai ever gave a time frame

I assumed it was a really low rent version of the age old kirby dot energy spike from a cosmic that incinerates everything.

I say its vague or bad because it was never demonstrated again


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 12, 2014)

he did, he said it took a few years, which is still rather unspecific 

it's not galaxy level anything, but I don't see it as an outlier either 

again though, completely irrelevant to this thread


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 12, 2014)

Ah, that musta been in the original then because I don't recall it in the dub, No matter


----------



## Red Angel (Dec 12, 2014)

We were talking about Buu because a guy light years ahead of Cell in terms of power going all out was only small star level

Also, seriously, that "galaxy busting" again?



Yeah, we've never had that brought up here before, no sir


----------



## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Dec 12, 2014)

This is not the thread for this


----------



## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 13, 2014)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> the flashback isn't that vague, though the vagueness from how impressive the feat actually is comes from the fact that it took a "few years" to accomplish



I know he said it in the manga (planets and stars), but did he really say it in the anime? I mean the "few years" part?


----------



## Red Angel (Dec 13, 2014)

Get out. Now


----------



## Red Angel (Dec 13, 2014)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> I know he said it in the manga (planets and stars), but did he really say it in the anime? I mean the "few years" part?



Blindly dickriding CD even though he outright diasgrees with your "Buu can galaxy bust"

When are you going to get a shred of dignity? I know you're pathetic but, hot damn


----------



## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 13, 2014)

I'm sorry, but I don't recall SK having said the part on "few years" on the anime.  I know it's on an extended timeline, but a few years is a lot. Although maybe I am wrong,  it is a galaxy after all. And a galaxy is huge...so maybe it'd take a few years to wipe it out clean of celestial bodies (stars, planets, asteroids).


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 13, 2014)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> I'm sorry, but I don't recall SK having said the part on "few years" on the anime.  I know it's on an extended timeline, but a few years is a lot. Although maybe I am wrong,  it is a galaxy after all. And a galaxy is huge...so maybe it'd take a few years to wipe it out clean of celestial bodies (stars, planets, asteroids).



..I don't think you're even grasping why this feat is nebulous and disputed..the fact that you're still arguing for a statement that if said or not is irrelevant to the validity of your claim is proof of that.

in other words, there's this piece of meat inside your skull, I suggest you take a break calm down and make use of said piece of meat to process exactly why you are going to routinely get shut down in these debates then come back at it when you're doing more than parroting the arguments (that don't even fit in context) and are actually thinking for yourself.

you'll find your time here to be a whole lot easier if you did that.


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## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 13, 2014)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> ..I don't think you're even grasping why this feat is nebulous and disputed..the fact that you're still arguing for a statement that if said or not is irrelevant to the validity of your claim is proof of that.
> 
> in other words, there's this piece of meat inside your skull, I suggest you take a break calm down and make use of said piece of meat to process exactly why you are going to routinely get shut down in these debates then come back at it when you're doing more than parroting the arguments (that don't even fit in context) and are actually thinking for yourself.
> 
> you'll find your time here to be a whole lot easier if you did that.


Look, I know I may be wrong on the "years" part, but the sad truth is that I don't recall the anime ever saying something like that "the few years part". Which is why I'm asking if it was ever said. I do have my limits in resources, but the fact that nobody shares anything is kind of fishy. 

The point is that, if it never happened (the "few years") then it refutes your claim that the flashback was vague and contradictory (and I see that not everybody here besides me agrees with you on that). Oh, and the flashback is not contradictory to the saga, we see bigger feat-statements from characters in the saga that supports the flashback. 

I hope you got the relevance of the question now.

Coz we all know stuff that happens in the manga doesn't always happen in the anime. And that they are entirely two different verses....canonicity right?



Skarbrand said:


> Blindly dickriding CD even though he outright diasgrees with your "Buu can galaxy bust"
> 
> When are you going to get a shred of dignity? I know you're pathetic but, hot damn


Wow, this guy is MAD.  I can actually feel the anger in his quotes. What have I ever done to you to get you this angry at me?


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## Red Angel (Dec 13, 2014)

spergifailj said:
			
		

> Wow, this guy is MAD. I can actually feel the anger in his quotes. What have I ever done to you to get you this angry at me?



I take it this was you attempting to be witty?

Oh I'm sorry did I forget to tell you my little policy? I don't politely debate with sign up trolls

But not really made, per se, I just couldn't help but call you out at your desperate attempts to try to find someone/thing to cling to after your "Buu is a galaxy buster" got utterly destroyed

I mean really, just immediately dickriding CD's point, being your first post after several posters completely demolished your "arguments" prior, grow a damn spine and more importantly, show some class


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## Red Angel (Dec 13, 2014)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> ..I don't think you're even grasping why this feat is nebulous and disputed..the fact that you're still arguing for a statement that if said or not is irrelevant to the validity of your claim is proof of that.
> 
> in other words, there's this piece of meat inside your skull, I suggest you take a break calm down and make *use of said piece of meat* to process exactly why you are going to routinely get shut down in these debates then come back at it when you're doing more than parroting the arguments (that don't even fit in context) and are actually thinking for yourself.
> 
> you'll find your time here to be a whole lot easier if you did that.



He can't even read at all, he'll just go about his same old shit (just look at the recent Saitama vs JJBA thread, for example)

IWD you're a terrible person, causing him to use his head would cause him to suffer an extreme mental breakdown and make him lose any form of co-ordination or sanity he ever had


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## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 13, 2014)

Skarbrand said:


> I take it this was you attempting to be witty?
> 
> Oh I'm sorry did I forget to tell you my little policy? I don't politely debate with sign up trolls
> 
> ...


So? What's your point anyway? You've been following me around and repeating that same statement for a month now. I mean, do you have a crush on me?  

And the only thing relevant to defeating my claim on Buu galaxy busting is the statement by CD on the "few years" part (Watchdog's statement about irrelevance and contradictory about the saga stuff was a bit weak and sounded pretty biased). 

It's just that I found Crimson's statement to be actually more damaging to mine. To sum it all up, Crimson's statement is actually a threat (so I'm not clinging to him or anybody, I'm still barely clinging onto my claim). Which is why I'm asking the question in the first place.


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## Red Angel (Dec 13, 2014)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> So? What's your point anyway? You've been following me around and repeating that same statement for a month now. *I mean, do you have a crush on me?  *
> 
> And the only thing relevant to defeating my claim on Buu galaxy busting is the statement by CD on the "few years" part (Watchdog's statement about irrelevance and contradictory about the saga stuff was a bit weak and sounded pretty biased).
> 
> It's just that I found Crimson's statement to be actually more damaging to mine. To sum it all up, Crimson's statement is actually a threat (so I'm not clinging to him or anybody, I'm still barely clinging onto my claim). Which is why I'm asking the question in the first place.



Yeah, I'm going to stand by my earlier question of you trying to be witty

ohohohoho, don't you dare try and weasel your way out of this one you little coward

Don't you dare pretend you didn't get rekt earlier and were too rekt to respond and immediately jumped on CD's argument and clearly sounded in support of his because you perceived him as debating against a "biased DBZ hater" in some kind of attempt to regain ground



> You've been following me around



Nuh uh, I commented here first, try again spergifailj


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## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 13, 2014)

Skarbrand said:


> Yeah, I'm going to stand by my earlier question of you trying to be witty
> 
> ohohohoho, don't you dare try and weasel your way out of this one you little coward
> 
> Don't you dare pretend you didn't get rekt earlier and were too rekt to respond and immediately jumped on CD's argument and clearly sounded in support of his because you perceived him as debating against a "biased DBZ hater" in some kind of attempt to regain ground


Me sounding like I was in support of Crimson was me being respectful to the debaters....I assure you, that was not the case. Not all people are like you.





Skarbrand said:


> Nuh uh, I commented here first, try again spergifailj


And I thought you had your policies.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Dec 13, 2014)

Well this thread has gone downhill. I'll decide what to do with it later.


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