# Zoro vs Jimbei



## Daisuke Jigen (Oct 9, 2013)

Scenario 1: Arlong Park, starting distance is 40 meters.
Scenario 2: Sabaody Archipelago, where the SH Crew were separated, starting distance is 60 meters.
Intel: None.
Intent: To kill.
Restrictions: None.

Both Zoro and Jimbei are Post TS versions.


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## Zorofangirl24 (Oct 9, 2013)

Zoro upper low or lower mid difficulty.


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## Goomoonryong (Oct 9, 2013)

Zoro wins high diff.


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## Sayonara (Oct 9, 2013)

Long ass battle possibly around 5 day mark. We haven't seen much from Zoro and don't really have grasp on Jimbei power aside that hes on same sort of level. I feel Luffy is stronger for sure, Zoro probably and Sanji just about, either way by end of arc confident its going be M3>Jimbei.

So will go with Zoro high to extreme.


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## Rob (Oct 9, 2013)

Zorofangirl24 said:


> Zoro upper low or lower mid difficulty.





Zoro obviously takes this low diff. 

I can't believe you would even consider mid diff


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Oct 9, 2013)

Zoro High-diff. 

if Jimbei camps the water like hard core i think he can push it to Extreme. 

But Zoro wins.


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## Slenderman (Oct 9, 2013)

Quoted by RLR all right's and respect to him ''Bcuz DooD A$hura is a one sht atack man Frkning Noob Bro '' Both of you guya are wrong Zolo stomps Jinbe. What r u gus thining


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## Kishido (Oct 9, 2013)

Zoro > Jinbe > Sanji

and will stay like this till the end of the manga as soona s Jinbe joins


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## Slenderman (Oct 9, 2013)

Interesting so you think that Jinbe will be in between them. What do you think in you're opinion will happen to the M3 just wondering.


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## Forcer (Oct 9, 2013)

Due to location Jinbei may win this

SA seems to be very humid and Jinbei techs may be at their best in this location

in AP the place to fight ain't very big, if Jinbei pushes Zoro to the water it's over


My bets on Jinbei are more cause of the location since who is exactly stronger is hard to say


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## The World (Oct 9, 2013)

Jinbei wins

Only SH who could possibly beat him is Luffy


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## Zoan (Oct 9, 2013)

Id say Zoro high diff


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## Zorofangirl24 (Oct 9, 2013)

?
 water doesnt do anything to Zoro, Asura zoro just slices the whole park in half and sends Jimbei to oblivion.


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## Zoan (Oct 9, 2013)

Zorofangirl24 said:


> ?
> water doesnt do anything to Zoro, Asura zoro just slices the whole park in half and sends Jimbei to oblivion.



Doubt it...


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## Slenderman (Oct 9, 2013)

^ Hey welcome to the forums. He's a troll so don't take him seriously.


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## Shiny (Oct 9, 2013)

zoro wins quite handly


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## Daisuke Jigen (Oct 10, 2013)

Zoan said:


> Doubt it...


Holy shit. Logic. Welcome to NF my friend.


The World said:


> Jinbei wins
> 
> Only SH who could possibly beat him is Luffy


I agree. Otherwise, Jimbei would have joined the SH Crew at Fishman Island, it would upset the power balance in the crew.


Slenderman said:


> ^ Hey welcome to the forums. He's a troll so don't take him seriously.


Doesn't it say fan"girl" in his name? 


How does Zoro low diff Jimbei when Jimbei could take Akainu's magma fist with his bare hand?

As for who wins, Jimbei takes Arlong Park mid diff, since it's right next to the ocean. On land, Jimbei could evenly clash (though briefly and it wasn't to kill obviously) with Luffy Post TS (actually caught him offguard with a Fishman Karate Move, and could react, block, and tank Luffy's Jet Stamp), and has shown better strength feats (stopped a drugged giant's punch, broke the finger it made contact with, and sent him flying, and stopped the giant *again* with a handful of water which allowed Sanji to land the final blow), so Jimbei takes land too high diff.


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## Tiger (Oct 10, 2013)

Kishido said:


> Zoro > Jinbe > Sanji
> 
> and will stay like this till the end of the manga as soona s Jinbe joins



More like...

Zoro > Sanji = Jinbe currently,

And both Zoro and Sanji will continue to grow in strength much more than Jinbe throughout the series.

As for OP, Zoro mid/high-diff.


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## GIORNO (Oct 10, 2013)

Jimbei's been made out to be equal to Luffy and the last time I checked Luffy > Zoro so yeah... Jimbei takes this mid - high depending on what his water feats are going to be like.

If Jimbei joined the SHP now it would be Luffy = Jimbei > Zoro > Sanji.

@Tea, of course my first comment on NF would be in response to a J-man thread you made. xD


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## Daisuke Jigen (Oct 10, 2013)

MonsieurCx said:


> Jimbei's been made out to be equal to Luffy and the last time I checked Luffy > Zoro so yeah... Jimbei takes this mid - high depending on what his water feats are going to be like.


Maybe some of the folks here think Zoro > Luffy? 


MonsieurCx said:


> If Jimbei joined the SHP now it would be Luffy = Jimbei > Zoro > Sanji.


...you...you actually claimed Jimbei is stronger than Zoro and Sanji?

Though ofc, Zoro and Sanji will get stronger than Jimbei eventually (at least on land).


MonsieurCx said:


> @Tea, of course my first comment on NF would be in response to a J-man thread you made. xD


Not my fault you haven't been that active over here.


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## GIORNO (Oct 10, 2013)

TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> Maybe some of the folks here think Zoro > Luffy?



LOL, of course they do... But they'd be insane.  



TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> ...you...you actually claimed Jimbei is stronger than Zoro and Sanji?
> 
> Though ofc, Zoro and Sanji will get stronger than Jimbei eventually (at least on land).



Hahaha, I ain't scurred of these folks, I'm just stating facts. :/

Yeah, Zoro and Sanji will definitely eventually become stronger than Jimbei and I wouldn't be surprised if Jimbei didn't join until they were hence Jimbei's 'got shit to take care of' until these children get stronger than him but at the moment, Jimbei takes 'em.



TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> Not my fault you haven't been that active over here.



Haha, well... I'm waiting for my name change but I can't resist a J-man thread.


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## trance (Oct 10, 2013)

Zoro or Jinbe extreme difficulty. In other words, it can go either way.


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## GIORNO (Oct 10, 2013)

Mr. E Man said:


> Zoro or Jinbe extreme difficulty. In other words, it can go either way.



They're near water though...


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## trance (Oct 10, 2013)

MonsieurCx said:


> They're near water though...



Zoro is Aquaman's son. So he gets the same boost in the water Jinbe gets.


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## GIORNO (Oct 10, 2013)

Mr. E Man said:


> Zoro is Aquaman's son. So he gets the same boost in the water Jinbe gets.



LOOOL, I take it you're conditioning me for the shitstorms I'm about to get myself into. xD If Zoro is Aquaman's son then Zoro stomps...


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## Halcyon (Oct 10, 2013)

Zoro wins.

Jinbe is too fat


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## Law (Oct 10, 2013)

Law said:


> More like...
> 
> Zoro > Sanji = Jinbe currently,
> 
> ...



I second this


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## Shanks (Oct 10, 2013)

Zoro mid dif.


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## zorokuma (Oct 10, 2013)

Halcyon said:


> Zoro wins.
> 
> Jinbe is too fat



This.

Exactly This.


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## SuperSaqer (Oct 10, 2013)

Luffy >> Zoro > Sanji > Ace > Jimbei.

Zoro takes it with low to med difficulty.


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## Tiger (Oct 10, 2013)

MonsieurCx said:


> *Jimbei's been made out to be equal to Luffy* and the last time I checked Luffy > Zoro so yeah... Jimbei takes this mid - high depending on what his water feats are going to be like.
> 
> If Jimbei joined the SHP now it would be Luffy = Jimbei > Zoro > Sanji.
> 
> @Tea, of course my first comment on NF would be in response to a J-man thread you made. xD



@Bold, no he wasn't, so the rest of your post is sort of meaningless.

Jinbe was made out to be the equal of a non-gears, non-serious, non-hardening, 'not wanting to hurt his friend just because of his stubbornness' Luffy.

And then Luffy went on to fight the main villain, and Jinbe was relegated to fighting half a bumbling, moronic giant blowfish.

They are not, and never will be again, equals.

Currently, I do not believe Jinbe would defeat Sanji in an all-out, balls to the wall, extreme fight unless they were underwater. And Zoro is just a terrible match-up for him on top of that.


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## tanman (Oct 10, 2013)

Looking at it all in retrospect, I feel as if Fishman Island Luffy was only slightly stronger than Jinbe. Current Luffy is likely decisively stronger than Jinbe. I would like to say the same about Zoro, while putting Sanji into a relationship with Jinbe similar to that between Luffy and Jinbe on Fishman Island.

However, this is questionable since Zoro has yet to fight anyone strong, so it's possible (but unlikely) that he hasn't improved at all since the timeskip.


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## GIORNO (Oct 11, 2013)

Law said:


> @Bold, no he wasn't, so the rest of your post is sort of meaningless.
> 
> Jinbe was made out to be the equal of a non-gears, non-serious, non-hardening, 'not wanting to hurt his friend just because of his stubbornness' Luffy.
> 
> ...



They really were serious when they said people on NF are retarded. 

Jimbei = Ace *on land*, Ace > Zoro > Sanji. In the water which is optional for this fight. Jimbei less than stomps Zoro or any of the other M3 for that matter.

Not only on FI was Jimbei made out to be Luffy's equal, but if you seriously think an in-water Jimbei isn't stronger than on-land Jimbei then you're hopeless.


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## Zorofangirl24 (Oct 11, 2013)

Nah fishman island Zoro turns Jinbei into sushi.


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## trance (Oct 11, 2013)

Zorofangirl24 said:


> Nah fishman island Zoro turns Jinbei into sushi.



Jinbe punches Zoro's head off. 

Jinbe caught Red Dog's punch and Marimo has nothing that even comes close to that.


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## TheWiggian (Oct 11, 2013)

MonsieurCx said:


> They really were serious when they said people on NF are retarded.
> 
> Jimbei = Ace *on land*, Ace > Zoro > Sanji. In the water which is optional for this fight. Jimbei less than stomps Zoro or any of the other M3 for that matter.
> 
> Not only on FI was Jimbei made out to be Luffy's equal, but if you seriously think an in-water Jimbei isn't stronger than on-land Jimbei then you're hopeless.




ace who gets beat down by 2 hits from yami teach is > post ts zoro? ofc 


Luffy>=Zoro>Sanji>>Ace

_Zoro wins high/extreme diff_ ck


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## Halcyon (Oct 11, 2013)

MonsieurCx said:


> They really were serious when they said people on NF are retarded.
> 
> Jimbei = Ace *on land*, Ace > Zoro > Sanji. In the water which is optional for this fight. Jimbei less than stomps Zoro or any of the other M3 for that matter.
> 
> Not only on FI was Jimbei made out to be Luffy's equal, but if you seriously think an in-water Jimbei isn't stronger than on-land Jimbei then you're hopeless.


You should think twice before making a blanket statement with such implications as those.

Also, _retarded_ is a word that should be used only by those who don't expect to be taken seriously by anyone. 

Oh, and you're fucking wrong. That was rookie Ace.

Jinbe was never made out to be Luffy's equal at FI, unless you think *base* is Luffy's max power, which we all know to be completely untrue.

Go back whence you came.


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## Slenderman (Oct 11, 2013)

MonsieurCx said:


> They really were serious when they said people on NF are retarded.
> 
> Jimbei = Ace *on land*, Ace > Zoro > Sanji. In the water which is optional for this fight. Jimbei less than stomps Zoro or any of the other M3 for that matter.
> 
> Not only on FI was Jimbei made out to be Luffy's equal, but if you seriously think an in-water Jimbei isn't stronger than on-land Jimbei then you're hopeless.



Jinbe's not stomping any M3 members in the water. FI Jinbe fought a base Luffy. Did Luffy use red hawk? No. Did he use EG? No. Did he use hawk rifle or Thor EG? No. FI Jinbe is not Luffy's equal. You're nonsense isn't funny.


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## GIORNO (Oct 11, 2013)

Mr. E Man said:


> Says the feglette wearing a Zoro set.
> 
> Oh and Luffy *did* use G2. It's shown  when he says "jet" stamp..



Sigh... These kids don't know how to read, much less will they be able to interpret what's going on in this chapter. Jimbei was saying how Luffy would 'almost' stand a chance against him which is essentially like Oda saying that because he wouldn't have Jimbei spouting bullshit.



Slenderman said:


> Jinbe was equal to rookie Ace try again. Jinbe's not stomping any M3 members in the water. FI Jinbe fought a base Luffy. Did Luffy use red hawk? No. Did he use EG? No. Did he use hawk rifle or Thor EG? No. FI Jinbe is not Luffy's equal. You're nonsense isn't funny.



 He thinks Zoro takes this mid-high when Zoro doesn't stand a chance against a Jimbei near water. It was said that fishmen are 10x stronger than normal human beings at birth and that gets magnified within water. In addition to that, Jimbei said that on-land he didn't have much to offer so basing that off his feats at MF and FI Jimbei stomps Post-TS Zoro taking into consideration there's water beside Arlong Park.

Luffy fought a base Jimbei... Jimbei at his strongest is in water, Luffy didn't fight Jimbei in water nor did Ace. Luffy using Jet Stamp is a G2 attack that Jimbei shrugged off with ease... Please, get the fuck out of here with your stupid logic. In addition to that, I don't know if you read the manga or not because the anime didn't portray this but Luffy  when they traded punches thus your argument's irrelevant (note the steam and the in the mid right panel). Jimbei threw Luffy like a bitch with FMK and then took his Jet Stamp like it was nothing and then not only that, collided with a G2 Luffy like it was nothing.

I can't believe these dipshits can't comprehend that Jimbei's a fishmen thus his strength gets magnified in-water. In addition to that, a G2 Luffy, or any of the other M3 members for that matter couldn't kick Wadatsumi in to the air as high as Jimbei did nor with that amount of ease. Luffy needed one of his strongest attacks to damage the Noah to the extent he did and he'd need that same amount of force to kick Wadatsumi as hard as Jimbei did and Jimbei wasn't even trying.


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## Lycka (Oct 11, 2013)

Zoro mid difficulty (due to the nature of his fighting style.)


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## StrawHat4Life (Oct 11, 2013)

Quit it with the flaming. Discuss this civilly or not at all.


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## trance (Oct 11, 2013)

How was my post non-contributive? I corrected Halcyon by saying Luffy was in G2 against Jinbe and even provided a scan for it.

Well, I'll post the scan again.

 That's a clear indicator Luffy was in G2 and did take Jinbe seriously.


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## Dunno (Oct 12, 2013)

Zoro, very high diff.


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## Slenderman (Oct 12, 2013)

яανєи said:


> Sigh... These kids don't know how to read, much less will they be able to interpret what's going on in this chapter. Jimbei was saying how Luffy would 'almost' stand a chance against him which is essentially like Oda saying that because he wouldn't have Jimbei spouting bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Whoa  watch your language. I would rage on you but SH4L has put me on last warning so I won't as this place is okay. Luffy didn't use his high end techs against Jinbe. If he used hawk rifle Jinbe would have felt it. I hate when guys like you come here and start swearing so much like honestly enough flaming that doesn't make you sound cool or make's you get your point across. Tell me is jet stamp one of Luffy's high end techs? Jet stamp is nothing compared to Thor EG or Red Hawk. It said Jinbe is near water not he starts in it. We haven't even seen Zoro's high end techs. If Zoro goes into that water using Ashura he will be the one coming back out of the water. Enough with this Jinbe wank. Luffy was not serious, not bloodlusted, he was fighting his friend, and he wasn't using his high end techs. Zoro one shotted Hody when he was underwater. He blitzed a fishman in water. Think about that.


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## Tiger (Oct 12, 2013)

яανєи said:


> They really were serious when they said people on NF are retarded.
> 
> Jimbei = Ace *on land*, Ace > Zoro > Sanji. In the water which is optional for this fight. Jimbei less than stomps Zoro or any of the other M3 for that matter.
> 
> Not only on FI was Jimbei made out to be Luffy's equal, but if you seriously think an in-water Jimbei isn't stronger than on-land Jimbei then you're hopeless.



You _do not_ know that Jinbe fought Ace solely on land, so _no_ to that. They are pirates, it's much more likely there was water around than not.

I don't think Ace is above the M3 anymore. I think he fits snugly within that grouping, actually, and I have yet to see anything from Jinbe to suggest he was as strong as Ace the last time we saw both of them.

Jinbe and Ace were equal a decade earlier. Jinbe was already grown, in his prime, Ace was still starting out as a rookie. The feats we've seen from them (Banaro Island) vs (Fishman Island) suggest Ace was a good deal stronger than Jinbe at those points.

Luffy was only shown to be Jinbe's equal when they weren't actually trying to hurt one another. From what we know Jinbe can do, and what we know Luffy can do - there would be no fucking contest. Jinbe would be KO'd with a bleeding chest thanks to Red Hawk followed by Elephant Gatling.

I deem Jinbe to be about equal to Sanji, but bloodlusted Sanji beats him on land 7 times out of 10 in my opinion. Zoro is a terrible match-up for Jinbe, and he's a step or two more lethally powerful than Sanji.

So no, we're not _retarded_, we've just been arguing about this for a lot longer than you. Try not to get yourself banned so early, you've got a promising future of pissing people off ahead of you.


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## RF (Oct 12, 2013)

Jimbe tied with Ace before the youngling joined the Whitebeard pirates as other have pointed out - Ace at Marineford was already roughly 2 years older, and considering his rapid growth rate as the Pirate King's son, I'd be disappointed if he wasn't a significant bit ahead of Jimbe at that point.

As for the thread, Zoro cuts him apart.


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## trance (Oct 12, 2013)

> Jinbe and Ace were equal a *decade earlier. *Jinbe was already grown, in his prime, Ace was still starting out as a rookie. The feats we've seen from them (Banaro Island) vs (Fishman Island) suggest Ace was a good deal stronger than Jinbe at those points.



A decade? What? 

That was four years ago.


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## Zooted (Oct 12, 2013)

Zoro high diff


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## Tiger (Oct 12, 2013)

Mr. E Man said:


> A decade? What?
> 
> That was four years ago.



I couldn't remember how long it was. I could have said a "century" or a "millennia" ago - either way I knew someone would correct me. I know he wasn't like 11/12 years old when he fought Jinbe, lol

Either way, they were equal before he really "took off" in the New World as a WB Commander, and I have no idea why people assume Jinbe also kept improving. He hasn't been nearly as impressive as people give him credit for.


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## Firo (Oct 12, 2013)

Law said:


> I couldn't remember how long it was. I could have said a "century" or a "millennia" ago - either way I knew someone would correct me.


Fuckin' LOL
I guess Ace was a pirate  at 7-9 years old then. Or better yet , before he was even born.


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## GIORNO (Oct 12, 2013)

Law said:


> I don't think Ace is above the M3 anymore. I think he fits snugly within that grouping, actually, and I have yet to see anything from Jinbe to suggest he was as strong as Ace the last time we saw both of them.



IMO he's no longer above Luffy but I think Zoro and Sanji would only be able to push him to high/extreme but IDK... Ace has no Haki feats whereas both Zoro and Sanji are confirmed BH users so he might be just below them but as of right now I still consider Ace to be stronger than Zoro/Sanji until they show more feats.



Law said:


> Jinbe and Ace were equal a decade earlier. Jinbe was already grown, in his prime, Ace was still starting out as a rookie. The feats we've seen from them (Banaro Island) vs (Fishman Island) suggest Ace was a good deal stronger than Jinbe at those points.



That's implying Jimbei hadn't gotten stronger in 4 years (it wasn't a decade). 



Law said:


> *Luffy was only shown to be Jinbe's equal* when they weren't actually trying to hurt one another. From what we know Jinbe can do, and what we know Luffy can do - there would be no fucking contest. Jinbe would be KO'd with a bleeding chest thanks to Red Hawk followed by Elephant Gatling.



@Bolded There you go, now you have it right. Luffy was only shown to be *JIMBEI's* equal when they clashed. Luffy needed G2 and a named move to hurt Jimbei and Jimbei still shrugged it off whereas Jimbei was in base form when he attacked Luffy, in addition to that, when they punched each other in the face, Luffy was in G2 and again, Jimbei was in base form. I'll re-link the page if you'd like. 

If you honestly think that, that's sad. Jimbei kicked a giant who's arguably several hundred tons into the air with ease and you think Luffy comes anywhere close to that? C'mon now... Stop using such biased arguments when you're arguing with facts and feats.



Law said:


> I deem Jinbe to be about equal to Sanji, but bloodlusted Sanji beats him on land 7 times out of 10 in my opinion. Zoro is a terrible match-up for Jinbe, and he's a step or two more lethally powerful than Sanji.



What you deem Jimbei to be is irrelevant, the manga deemed Jimbei to be Luffy's equal on FI so your opinion on the matter is irrelevant. Your opinion is based off of biases and ignorance so it doesn't really matter what you think. It would be like me saying Jimbei beats Saka-san half of the time because he was able to block one out of two of Saka-san's punches. You're acting as if Jimbei and Hody are on the same level and they're not even remotely close, as I've said before, the ONLY reason Jimbei didn't take down Hody is because he wanted Luffy (a human) to be the hero of FI to show that not all humans are bad. It's not because Jimbei couldn't, it was in order to further the plot.



Law said:


> So no, we're not _retarded_, we've just been arguing about this for a lot longer than you. Try not to get yourself banned so early, you've got a promising future of pissing people off ahead of you.



Your arguments suggest otherwise. The quality of my arguments outweigh the quantity of your arguments. You guys refute facts for the purpose of showcasing your biases and it's extremely ignorant and childish to do so. Once you can present facts (not your biases) from the manga to support your claim that Zoro can take Jimbei (who's much stronger in the water) I'll concede but until you do so please, hop off your high horse, time means nothing. I'll piss people off because they know what I'm saying is factual and it hurts their fanboy egos, there's not much I can do about that. My friends told me to come here because they need more intelligent debaters because these forums are seemingly scarce in that regard. 



Slenderman said:


> Whoa  watch your language. I would rage on you but SH4L has put me on last warning so I won't as this place is okay. Luffy didn't use his high end techs against Jinbe. If he used hawk rifle Jinbe would have felt it. I hate when guys like you come here and start swearing so much like honestly enough flaming that doesn't make you sound cool or make's you get your point across. Tell me is jet stamp one of Luffy's high end techs? Jet stamp is nothing compared to Thor EG or Red Hawk. It said Jinbe is near water not he starts in it. We haven't even seen Zoro's high end techs. If Zoro goes into that water using Ashura he will be the one coming back out of the water. Enough with this Jinbe wank. Luffy was not serious, not bloodlusted, he was fighting his friend, and he wasn't using his high end techs. Zoro one shotted Hody when he was underwater. He blitzed a fishman in water. Think about that.



You're being biased right now. You're acting as if Jimbei used his strongest attacks against Luffy which he did not either, Jimbei didn't want to hurt his friend (Luffy) just as Luffy did not want to hurt Jimbei. 

I came here flaming because I was told there wasn't any restraints on it but now the SH4L told us to settle down I won't. I hate it when people ignore facts/feats within the manga purposefully to suit their biases. Jet Stamp is not one of Luffy's 'strongest' G2 movies but please, Jimbei didn't even use a named move against Luffy and you're acting as if Jimbei is nowhere close to Luffy when Luffy needed G2 + a Jet move to match Jimbei's non-named random punch. I'm not wanking Jimbei, you're wanking Zoro and Luffy. I'm being perfectly reasonable and accepting facts as they are, you haven't presented one, valid argument as to why Luffy is stronger than Jimbei or Zoro's Post-TS feats can take Jimbei especially when base Jimbei's the only thing we've seen. Again, must I reiterate that they're right beside water and fishmen get multiple times stronger than their on-land performances. 

Stop it with your biases, Jimbei wasn't serious either nor did he use a named attack unlike Luffy. Jimbei made it VERY clear that Hody was nowhere near him in power/prowess, don't use that shitstain of a fishman as a power-scale to Jimbei's strength when a steroided Hody came nowhere close to Jimbei.


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## Slenderman (Oct 12, 2013)

яανєи said:


> IMO he's no longer above Luffy but I think Zoro and Sanji would only be able to push him to high/extreme but IDK... Ace has no Haki feats whereas both Zoro and Sanji are confirmed BH users so he might be just below them but as of right now I still consider Ace to be stronger than Zoro/Sanji until they show more feats.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Jinbe is always base. I've given you a good argument and you've given me walls of text that mean nothing. I'm telling you that who cares if Jet stamp is named it still is nothing compared to lots of Luffy's other moves. Law used a named move counter shock against Vergo and it did a grand total of little to nothing. An attack being named doesn't mean it's super powerful. Jinbe didn't go all out and so didn't Luffy but like Law said if Luffy pulled out RH there would be a big gaping hole in Jinbe's chest. I'm not wanking anyone i'm being fair and honest while you cling to believing Jinbe can stomp Zoro if he's underwater. Zoro has already shown that being underwater hardly affects him. You can avoid the Hody feat but the fact of the matter is that he blitzed a fishman underwater. I'm giving facts you're harping on about Luffy using jet stamp and acting like it's one of Luffy's great moves. I'll ask you this would Jinbe tank RH or EG or Thor EG or EGG or Hawk rifle? These are not even Luffy's full skill set. You contradicted yourself. Your whole argument is Luffy vs Jinbe while that's not even the thread question. I handed you a shot of fine German wine while you hand me water. The difference in the quality of our argument is great. Zoro>Jinbe. It would have made sense if you said Jinbe wins high or extreme but Jinbe is not  easily beating Zoro.


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## GIORNO (Oct 12, 2013)

Slenderman said:


> Jinbe is always base.



Lol, except when there's water around and there is in this scenario.



Slenderman said:


> I've given you a good argument and you've given me walls of text that mean nothing.



No you haven't. You gave me a biased argument that doesn't present any facts whereas mine is the opposite, it's unfortunate you don't have the attention span to get through it, you might actually learn something.



Slenderman said:


> I'm telling you that who cares if Jet stamp is named it still is nothing compared to lots of Luffy's other moves.



I'm telling you don't compare a named attack to a non-named attack and then say Luffy's named attack is 'not serious' when Jimbei didn't even use a named attack... If Luffy's named attack was 'not serious' then Jimbei's non-named attack must have been less than 'not serious'.



Slenderman said:


> An attack being named doesn't mean it's super powerful.



We're not talking about how strong an attack is, we're talking about how 'serious' an attack is. You're claiming that Luffy was not attacking Jimbei seriously but that Jimbei was attacking Luffy seriously and if Luffy's using a named attack and Jimbei's not, please explain to me how that makes Jimbei attacking Luffy more serious than Luffy attacking Jimbei. Please do.



Slenderman said:


> Jinbe didn't go all out and so didn't Luffy but like Law said if Luffy pulled out RH there would be a big gaping hole in Jinbe's chest.



Finally you admit that neither were serious... That took long enough. There wouldn't be a gaping hole in Jimbei's chest, Jimbei blocked Saka-san's magma fist which burns MUCH hotter than Red Hawk, please don't spread fallacious biases around as if they're facts.



Slenderman said:


> I'm not wanking anyone i'm being fair and honest while you cling to believing Jinbe can stomp Zoro if he's underwater.



Me:

> Giving you feats and panels to support my argument.
> Gets called biased.

You: 

> Claiming your opinions on theoretical matters as facts.
> Suggesting Jimbei on-land = Jimbei in-water.
> Thinks is unbiased.

Dat logic.



Slenderman said:


> Zoro has already shown that being underwater hardly affects him. You can avoid the Hody feat but the fact of the matter is that he blitzed a fishman underwater.



I'm not ignoring the Hody feat. 1.) Oda's said it himself in the manga that humans lose half of their physical strength underwater 2.) Hody =/= Jimbei which you fail to realize. In addition to this, Jimbei wasn't in the water for very long, do you seriously think he could keep up with Jimbei over an elongated fight especially considering Jimbei's VERY fast underwater. Zoro would get roflstomped.



Slenderman said:


> I'm giving facts you're harping on about Luffy using jet stamp and acting like it's one of Luffy's great moves.



No you're not. You're not acknowledging that Jimbei was equally/less serious than Luffy and think that their clash didn't show their equality. You're also not taking into consideration that Jimbei didn't fight Luffy ONLY because of PIS, Jimbei could have EASILY taken down Hody, actually probably easier than Luffy because Luffy fought him in water and he's a DF user. The efficacy of RH underwater was severely mitigated due to this.



Slenderman said:


> I'll ask you this would Jinbe tank RH or EG or Thor EG or EGG or Hawk rifle? These are not even Luffy's full skill set.



He tanked a magma fist by Saka-san... I'm sure he'd be able to tank RH and HR. As for EG/EGG he doesn't have enough durability feats to assume so so I won't say yes but you shouldn't assume he can't either 'cause if you wanna play that game, Shanks couldn't either (Shanks has no durability feats).



Slenderman said:


> You contradicted yourself. Your whole argument is Luffy vs Jinbe while that's not even the thread question.



Luffy's the only one we can scale Jimbei to Zoro with because it's been made clear in the manga that Luffy > Zoro and Jimbei = Luffy (on-land). Actually, if you go back, the person who started this whole thing was Law addressing my comment about Jimbei = Luffy with fallacies saying _"Jinbe was made out to be the equal of a non-gears, non-serious, non-hardening, 'not wanting to hurt his friend just because of his stubbornness' Luffy."_ which is not true. You're right though, we should go back to arguing about Zoro vs. Jimbei, I'd love to see your reasoning as to why you think Zoro could beat him with the limited feats Zoro's showcased. 



Slenderman said:


> I handed you a shot of fine German wine while you hand me water. The difference in the quality of our argument is great. Zoro>Jinbe. It would have made sense if you said Jinbe wins high or extreme but Jinbe is not  easily beating Zoro.



No, it's quite the contrary broheim. Anyone with a brain who can comprehend facts will see that what I'm saying > your/Law's opinionated responses. I'm not arguing based on biases, I'm arguing based off what I've read and seen within the manga which is the only measurement of strength (via panel feats). Anyway, Zoro can't push Jimbei to extreme, he might be able to take him to high depending on what kind of factor the water plays into their fight but I said it in my first post that I was basing a Jimbei mid-high off the water rather than base Jimbei, base Jimbei is NOT stomping Zoro or any of the M3 for that matter, they'd all take him to high - extreme. It was only after I got biased responses to my post that I decided to rustle with saying Jimbei stomps.


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## Zooted (Oct 12, 2013)

яανєи said:


> .



>Noname slash cut Black Vergo in half
>Counter Shock did jack shit to Vergo
>Named attack is a more serious attack
>Makes sense


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## Quuon (Oct 12, 2013)

Jinbe loses.


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## Captain Altintop (Oct 12, 2013)

I thinks current Zoro can tie with him on land, but would say that Luffy >= Jimbei >== Zoro.

Extreme diff fight for sure.


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## Halcyon (Oct 12, 2013)

Someone just call Corus to end this.


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## Coruscation (Oct 12, 2013)

Zoro wins. If Jimbei wants to waterstall he can certainly do so but Zoro can just counterstall and the fight will go nowhere. When eventually Jimbei comes up because that's the only way anything's going to happen, Zoro defeats him with high difficulty. Jimbei is in no way beating Zoro with only a fraction of his power that he has access to while fighting on land.

Luffy = Jimbei is true, more or less. When both are at full power. Luffy = Jimbei with only 80% of his abilities? Nope. People underestimate how Jimbei can't use his true strength on land. He isn't beating Zoro under conditions where Zoro can use full power and Jimbei can't.

Fishman Island told us Jimbei (true power) ~ Luffy > Jimbei (restricted i.e. land) ~ Sanji. Not Jimbei >> Luffy = Jimbei (restricted).


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## Slenderman (Oct 12, 2013)

яανєи said:


> Lol, except when there's water around and there is in this scenario.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm not being biased. Don't say that i'm not reading what you're saying you implied that I said that Jinbe is the same over and under water but I never said that. You select certain points in my argument and then adress them while you dodge other ones. Look at the post below your's the guy was completely right in stating all of the points that are horribly wrong. You keep saying Jinbe blocked a magmafist. That same fist burnt his hand. He then ran and got another fist that made him become almost unable to move. You clearly want to cling on to your fanworld claims so continue to do that. Like I said I gave you fine wine and you give me water. The guy below your comment clearly showed that he doesn't think that you're argument is better since it got a eloquent disdain. I'm done here this is nonsense.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Oct 13, 2013)

Coruscation said:


> Zoro wins. If Jimbei wants to waterstall he can certainly do so but Zoro can just counterstall and the fight will go nowhere.


If all Jimbei knows is water spears, I'm going to be disappointed (especially since it was noted that he was forced to restrain himself from sinking the ship they needed at Impel Down). Also, Jimbei could intercept Gear 2 Luffy when he was in Impel Down, and even after the TS, managed to catch Luffy offguard with a Fishman Karate move (Luffy's reaction speed > Zoro's reaction speed), and could react, block, and tank Luffy's Jet Stamp.


Coruscation said:


> Zoro defeats him with high difficulty. Jimbei is in no way beating Zoro with only a fraction of his power that he has access to while fighting on land.





Coruscation said:


> People underestimate how Jimbei can't use his true strength on land. He isn't beating Zoro under conditions where Zoro can use full power and Jimbei can't.


I've already discussed what Jimbei can do on land from what's been shown so far (sent a drugged giant flying with a kick and stopped him again with a handful of water). Tell  me, what can Zoro do if Jimbei's 7000 Brick Roundhouse Kick (which broke the finger Jimbei's kick landed on the giant) lands on him?


Coruscation said:


> Luffy = Jimbei is true, more or less. *When both are at full power.* Luffy = Jimbei with only 80% of his abilities? Nope.


Luffy isn't beating Jimbei underwater. And Hody took plenty of Luffy's attacks, one of which was a Red Hawk, and it took an Elephant Gun to put him down. And in order for Zoro to win, he will have to get past Jimbei's Fishman Karate, which uses the water in the atmosphere and human body, and could even hurt a rubber man like Luffy. Not happening.


Coruscation said:


> Fishman Island told us *Jimbei (true power) ~ Luffy > Jimbei* (restricted i.e. land) *~ Sanji*. Not Jimbei >> Luffy = Jimbei (restricted).


And when was this stated? 


Slenderman said:


> You keep saying Jinbe blocked a magmafist. That same fist burnt his hand. He then ran and got another fist that made him become almost unable to move.


 
First fist was a ranged attack, which Jimbei was still standing from, and Akainu's magma fist > everything in Post TS Zoro's known arsenal. Second one was when Akainu went in up close and personal, he had to physically punch through Jimbei. And the fact Jimbei was still conscious from taking the second punch is more than what can be claimed for Zoro.


Slenderman said:


> Jinbe is always base.



Fishmen have been stated to be not at full strength on land...wow...


Slenderman said:


> Luffy but like Law said if Luffy pulled out RH there would be a big gaping hole in Jinbe's chest.


Proof? Especially since Hody could take it (though he needed pills to get back up)?


Slenderman said:


> I'm not wanking anyone i'm being fair and honest while you cling to believing Jinbe can stomp Zoro if he's underwater. Zoro has already shown that being underwater hardly affects him. You can avoid the Hody feat but the fact of the matter is that he blitzed a fishman underwater. I handed you a shot of fine German wine while you hand me water.


Zoro beat a Fishman who was nowhere near Jimbei's level, before and after his transformations, so that is not a path to saying Zoro can beat Jimbei in the water. And no, you didn't hand put out wine.


----------



## Coruscation (Oct 13, 2013)

> If all Jimbei knows is water spears, I'm going to be disappointed



What does it matter? Zoro can simply run way out of Jimbei's reach and he'll never be touched. Then they can sit there sending flying slashes and water moves at each other as the fight goes nowhere. For something to actually happen, Jimbei's got to come up on land.



> managed to catch Luffy offguard with a Fishman Karate move (Luffy's reaction speed > Zoro's reaction speed), and could react, block, and tank Luffy's Jet Stamp.



It's entirely your baseless assertion that Luffy > Zoro in reaction speed. Luffy also was not unable to react to it. He turned around and blocked it perfectly fine. That he didn't know it was an attack that can't be physically blocked is entirely a separate issue from reaction speed. Jimbei blocking a Jet Stamp is all fine and dandy and an impressive physical feat but it has no relevance as to him being stronger than Zoro with only a fraction of his power, an assertion you are consistently failing to support.



> Luffy isn't beating Jimbei underwater



Luffy is weakened underwater. The true comparison is Luffy on land vs. Jimbei in water. That's when they can use their full power. This fight can't actually happen because where one is at 100%, the other is weakened. But it doesn't matter because we're discussing theoreticals. Jimbei is more or less on par with Luffy but he isn't on par with him while only able to use a fraction of his power.



> And when was this stated?



When was Luffy = Jimbei (restricted) "stated"? You can't demand statements from me while you have only interpretation yourself. The interpretation I described is the more logical one. When the actual fights at Fishman Island went down, Sanji and Jimbei were the ones portrayed equally. This was a landlocked Jimbei thus not at full power. When previously he fought with Luffy neither went all-out and they were on par in their short clash. This doesn't have to mean that they're equal if they went all-out but for the sake of argument, it's fine to assume that. Jimbei can't go all-out unless he's in the water. You have no basis of support for claiming that he's equal to Luffy without being able to use his true power or that he would beat Zoro under such conditions.



> Hody took plenty of Luffy's attacks, one of which was a Red Hawk, and it took an Elephant Gun to put him down



No. Not simply "Hody" took that but a Hody who was consuming magical revitalizing and strength-enhancing pills. He had to take another Energy Steroid before it ever got the point of Red Hawk. Once Red Hawk hit, he immediately had to take another two dozen Energy Steroids to be able to keep fighting. Hody on 20+ magical performance-enhancing drugs took this to put down. That doesn't have any relevance at all to the argument at hand. You seem to believe that merely making statements is enough to give you a good argument but it isn't. 



> in order for Zoro to win, he will have to get past Jimbei's Fishman Karate, which uses the water in the atmosphere and human body, and could even hurt a rubber man like Luffy. Not happening.



Here you've only made an assertion with no reasoning behind it. I don't even need to rebuke this because there's no actual argument to address, merely statements that don't logically follow from each other at all.



> Tell me, what can Zoro do if Jimbei's 7000 Brick Roundhouse Kick (which broke the finger Jimbei's kick landed on the giant) lands on him?



Take the damage and move on? You might remember that Zoro is pretty good at taking damage? What kind of question is this? What do people usually do when they get hit by attacks? Let me throw that right back at you and ask what Jimbei does if Zoro's Shi Shishi Sonson cuts his throat? I'm sure you'll use common sense and say "Jimbei would avoid getting hit by that" and the same way I'll use common sense and say that Zoro would block and avoid many of Jimbei's moves and the ones he can't he can endure.


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## Beast (Oct 13, 2013)

Scen1- Jinbe mid- high diff
Scen2- Jinbe high diff.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Oct 13, 2013)

Coruscation said:


> What does it matter? Zoro can simply run way out of Jimbei's reach and he'll never be touched. Then they can sit there sending flying slashes and water moves at each other as the fight goes nowhere. For something to actually happen, Jimbei's got to come up on land.


How much you want to bet Jimbei can fling up a wave that can drag Zoro in? Or how about using a roundhouse kick to send him into the ocean? And Zoro will have to outlast a Fishman who can fight for at least five days.


Coruscation said:


> It's entirely your baseless assertion that Luffy > Zoro in reaction speed. Luffy also was not unable to react to it. He turned around and blocked it perfectly fine. That he didn't know it was an attack that can't be physically blocked is entirely a separate issue from reaction speed.


Luffy has been shown dodging lasers without a fuss and he could dodged it but didn't. Bear in mind he has KH.


Coruscation said:


> Jimbei blocking a Jet Stamp is all fine and dandy and an impressive physical feat but it has no relevance as to him being stronger than Zoro with only a fraction of his power, an assertion you are consistently failing to support.


Can a base Zoro tank a Jet Stamp (no proof Jimbei has BH to improve his endurance) or keep taking Jimbei's attacks (need I bring up the giant, which Jimbei sent flying with a kick)?


Coruscation said:


> Luffy is weakened underwater.


Hody had taken a beating and he wasn't KOed from the Red Hawk, he still got up to swallow the pill.


Coruscation said:


> The true comparison is Luffy on land vs. Jimbei in water. That's when they can use their full power. This fight can't actually happen because where one is at 100%, the other is weakened. But it doesn't matter because we're discussing theoreticals. Jimbei is more or less on par with Luffy but he isn't on par with him while only able to use a fraction of his power.


And when have we seen Luffy or Jimbei's full power against an opponent of their level?


Coruscation said:


> When was Luffy = Jimbei (restricted) "stated"? You can't demand statements from me while you have only interpretation yourself. The interpretation I described is the more logical one. When the actual fights at Fishman Island went down, *Sanji and Jimbei were the ones portrayed equally.*


Ok. In order to prove Sanji = Jimbei, you need to *prove* the following.
1.) That Sanji's basic attacks (meaning no Diable Jambe or Haki), could stop a drugged giant's punch, break the finger, and send said giant flying, or stop an inflated giant rolling at you (which Jimbei accomplished with a handful of water).
2.) That Base Sanji can take a fist of lava and still stand, much less a Jet Stamp.
3.) That Sanji can fight for 5 days.
Btw, Luffy and Mr 2 were paired together in Impel Down, guess they were equals in that arc. 


Coruscation said:


> This was a landlocked Jimbei thus not at full power. When previously he fought with Luffy neither went all-out and they were on par in their short clash. This doesn't have to mean that they're equal if they went all-out but for the sake of argument, it's fine to assume that. Jimbei can't go all-out unless he's in the water. You have no basis of support for claiming that he's equal to Luffy without being able to use his true power or that he would beat Zoro under such conditions.


We'll see how Jimbei and Luffy are on land soon enough, but for now, Jimbei has more than enough to beat Zoro.


Coruscation said:


> No. Not simply "Hody" took that but a Hody who was consuming magical revitalizing and strength-enhancing pills. He had to take another Energy Steroid before it ever got the point of Red Hawk. Once Red Hawk hit, he immediately had to take another two dozen Energy Steroids to be able to keep fighting. Hody on 20+ magical performance-enhancing drugs took this to put down. That doesn't have any relevance at all to the argument at hand. You seem to believe that merely making statements is enough to give you a good argument but it isn't.


That Red Hawk was *not* enough to KO him, after he had taken a beating, and Hody was still able to get back up and swallow the pill, and Hody was trash before and after his transformations compared to Luffy and Jimbei.


Coruscation said:


> Here you've only made an assertion with no reasoning behind it. I don't even need to rebuke this because there's no actual argument to address, merely statements that don't logically follow from each other at all.


Prove that Zoro can get past Fishman Karate's shockwaves. Which he can't.


Coruscation said:


> *Take the damage and move on? You might remember that Zoro is pretty good at taking damage? What kind of question is this? What do people usually do when they get hit by attacks?*


I do hope you saw that Jimbei broke a drugged giant's finger with a simple kick. And that with a handful of water fired that blast against the giant when he was inflated. Has Zoro shown he can take attacks like those?


Coruscation said:


> Let me throw that right back at you and ask what Jimbei does if Zoro's Shi Shishi Sonson cuts his throat? I'm sure you'll use common sense and say "Jimbei would avoid getting hit by that" and the same way I'll use common sense and say that Zoro would block and avoid many of Jimbei's moves and the ones he can't he can endure.


Jimbei was able to catch a Gear 2 Luffy in Impel Down and even Post TS react to Gear 2 Luffy's speed. Gear 2 Luffy's speed > Zoro's speed. Jimbei was also able to take a fist of lava and still use Fishman Karate. Akainu's lava attack (even a long range one which was what Jimbei blocked) > everything Zoro's got. And once again, Zoro needs to get past the shockwaves, which Luffy failed to avoid.


MasterBeast said:


> Scen1- Jinbe mid- high diff
> Scen2- Jinbe high diff.


Thanks for the support dude, it's very much appreciated...


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## Tiger (Oct 13, 2013)

Luffy dodging lasers without a fuss does not mean Luffy > Zoro in reaction speed.

Also, Luffy's Gear 2 speed in Impel Down and Luffy's Gear 2 speed now are not going to be the same thing, so Jinbe intercepting him then does not mean he can intercept him now. I'm not saying, necessarily, that he couldn't intercept him now, but you can't assume he can now because he could then either.

Zoro has shown to be able to take attacks much worse than those, Tea-guy.

You're not thinking clearly. This is not "Jinbe vs pre-skip Zoro". Wadatsumi was a joke, and it took both Sanji and Jinbe to fight him. That's. Not. Impressive. If anything it was a slap to the face. One Elephant Gatling would have put that fatass away, and Zoro wouldn't have needed assistance either. Note: I don't think Sanji needed Jinbe's help to beat Wadatsumi, either, and I think it was stupid they both fought him. But the fact that Oda had them fight together tells me that those two are the ones who are equal/closest in power.

Jinbe's not blocking any of Zoro's attacks, fishman karate is not going to KO Zoro, especially not before Jinbe is cut into pieces. Jinbe's only resort, as Corus stated, is to water-stall, but Zoro can wait him out on land. This is a battledome fight, you can't stall forever. Eventually, Zoro's going to land a lethal blow, and Jinbe's not going to be able to get to the water before being finished.

Zoro's not "way higher" than Jinbe, power-wise, but he's stronger and is a horrible, horrible match-up for the fish. I can see it now, Zoro uses a santoryu-style special attack, and Jinbe goes "not today, young one!" and kicks at the blades to block them...then his leg is cleanly cut in half down the middle, and a spray of blood from a gash up and down his chest coats the ground in front of him. "Oh, I guess kicking at swords doesn't help" *falls over dead*.


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## Coruscation (Oct 13, 2013)

> How much you want to bet Jimbei can fling up a wave that can drag Zoro in? Or how about using a roundhouse kick to send him into the ocean?



You're completely speculating. That's fine, but the problem is that you're trying to argue that because my argument is based on speculation i.e. logical inference and assumptions, yours is somehow more correct. It doesn't work that way.



> Luffy has been shown dodging lasers without a fuss and he could dodged it but didn't.



So? Pacifista lasers are slow considering the M. Trio could dodge them before the timeskip. Luffy doing so does in no way elevate his reactions above Zoro's. He didn't dodge it because he didn't know that it was a move he should have dodged. Not because it was too fast.



> Can a base Zoro tank a Jet Stamp



Yes. Yes yes yes. Caesar Clown took that and more and was still up and running about. Do you even remember how insane Zoro's toughness and endurance is and always has been? His feats against Daz Bones? Kuma? The Skypiea trials? The Pacifista? Zoro is a true survival monster. Of course he could take not one but plenty of Jet Stamps.



> Hody had taken a beating and he wasn't KOed from the Red Hawk, he still got up to swallow the pill.



What are you even arguing? Trying to downplay Luffy's feats despite him, while weakened by the water, killing Monster Hody in a single blow if it wasn't for magical steroids keeping him awake and letting him chug down twenty more just not to die? What is even the point of this, it's as if you think you have some kind of evidence that Jimbei would KO Hody where Luffy failed or whatever. Which even if true wouldn't matter as Luffy is perpetually weakened underwater.



> And when have we seen Luffy or Jimbei's full power against an opponent of their level?



You haven't. That's why you use logical inference and reasoning to arrive at conclusions. There is absolutely no reason you've given me to conclude Jimbei >> Luffy and Luffy is only par with a significantly handicapped Jimbei.



> In order to prove Sanji = Jimbei, you need to prove the following.



No, I don't. You don't seem to understand how this works. Us reasonable people who debate here are not feat zombies who are incapable of processing information other than raw feats and capable of making logical inferences from all available facts.



> That Red Hawk was not enough to KO him, after he had taken a beating



He had taken an Energy Steroid. The ES are magically revitalizing. Are you forgetting that Zoro cut Hody down and yet as soon as he was fed a single ES by a crewmember he was immediately up and running again? Hody has no chance of taking that on land without the ES boons.

Red Hawk was, in any event, weakened.



> Prove that Zoro can get past Fishman Karate's shockwaves. Which he can't.



I don't need to "prove" that one bit. How about you "prove" that Jimbei can deal with Shi Shishi Sonson? Jimbei took significant damage from a single punch to the head from Luffy, he'd get murdered by that attack from Zoro. If I was a feat zombie that's what I would say.



> I do hope you saw that Jimbei broke a drugged giant's finger with a simple kick. And that with a handful of water fired that blast against the giant when he was inflated. Has Zoro shown he can take attacks like those?



Zoro literally hasn't taken a single hit since the timeskip. How do you expect him to have "shown" the ability to tank those attacks when he hasn't been hit yet? I mean surely you can see how completely unreasonable that is, right? You are the one who needs to offer up some sort of evidence that Zoro would _not_ be able to take them, not the other way around.



> Jimbei was able to catch a Gear 2 Luffy in Impel Down and even Post TS react to Gear 2 Luffy's speed.



He never dodged G2. He only blocked it. If he tried to block Zoro he would get his arms cut off. What now? Are you out of feats? Jimbei has never been shown to _dodge_ an attack as fast as Shi Shishi Sonson, so I'm sorry, you have to accept my argument that he would get his head cut of and die unless you start using logical reasoning and powerscaling. Which if you do you immediately have to accept that so can I.



> Akainu's lava attack (even a long range one which was what Jimbei blocked) > everything Zoro's got.



No. Akainu's attack went right through Jimbei. A 18 1/2 Ace brought Jimbei to death's doorstep. Mihawk-trained Zoro with more experience as a pirate and feats such as slicing the entire head off a Dragon that could tank Jet Bullet (Jimbei got messed up from less) would deal huge damage to Jimbei.



> once again, Zoro needs to get past the shockwaves, which Luffy failed to avoid.



Luffy didn't try to avoid. He tried to block because he thought he could not knowing that it was an attack that can't be physically blocked. How long are you going to ignore this? It's getting rather silly. Zoro doesn't even need to dodge. He can simply send out a flying flash that cuts right through them and cuts Jimbei up. Jimbei is going to lose badly in a test of lethality as that shockwave barely did any damage at all to Luffy.


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## Vengeance (Oct 13, 2013)

Zoro takes it very high difficulty.


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## Typhon (Oct 13, 2013)

I'd like to think Jinbei takes it high-extreme. I mean at least Jinbei has something going for him. Zoro hasn't done anything yet to make me believe he can beat Jinbei and since I'm in the bandwagon where the difference in strength between Luffy and Zoro isn't "negligible" or extremely close, I give it to him. Not to mention the obvious bonus of having water around. If Jinbei can take these guys on land, imagine underwater. I mean yeah sure Zoro can fight underwater, but he's no Sanji.


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## GaaraoftheDesert1 (Oct 13, 2013)

Jimbe is equal to Ace.
Zoro is weaker than Ace.


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## Orca (Oct 13, 2013)

GaaraoftheDesert1 said:


> Jimbe is equal to Ace.
> Zoro is weaker than Ace.



Actually ace should be stronger than jimbei. Ace tied jimbei i believe two years before MF. Thats before he became part of WB pirates. Ace's growth rate is insane and should be a lot higher than jinbei.


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## Zorofangirl24 (Oct 13, 2013)

GaaraoftheDesert1 said:


> Jimbe is equal to Ace.
> *Zoro is weaker than Ace*.



Swordless Zoro one shots Ace with his fingernails.


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## GIORNO (Oct 13, 2013)

Zorofangirl24 said:


> Swordless Zoro one shots Ace with his fingernails.



Do you ever say anything even remotely intelligent?



Coruscation said:


> Zoro wins. If Jimbei wants to waterstall he can certainly do so but Zoro can just counterstall and the fight will go nowhere. When eventually Jimbei comes up because that's the only way anything's going to happen, Zoro defeats him with high difficulty. Jimbei is in no way beating Zoro with only a fraction of his power that he has access to while fighting on land.



You're implying Jimbei would water stall. Karakusagawara Seiken utilizes water vapor in the air to release a shockwave, if there's more water, there's more water vapor thus meaning the shockwave produced by KS is stronger. Also, he's displayed the ability to block sharp attacks with Samehada Shotei although obviously Zoro is stronger than Moriah so I don't know for certain how effective/how long Jimbei would be able to do this for but nevertheless, he'd be able to do it. Also, Jimbei's shown extremely strong feats such as Buraikan and 7k Brick Roundhouse Kick, if you think those won't effect Zoro when the former launched a several hundred/thousand ton giant into the air and the latter being able to break his finger... Damn.



Coruscation said:


> Luffy = Jimbei is true, more or less. When both are at full power. Luffy = Jimbei with only 80% of his abilities? Nope. People underestimate how Jimbei can't use his true strength on land. He isn't beating Zoro under conditions where Zoro can use full power and Jimbei can't.



On-land Jimbei was comparable to G2 Luffy, G2 Luffy > Zoro. I don't know how you've been able to process that as Jimbei being in-water and being equal to Luffy as him being at full strength but I'd love to hear your reasoning, I'm sure it's astute. 

I don't think you understand that Jimbei isn't at full strength when on land, he's at full strength when immersed in water. It's not a matter of being able to will his full strength on-land, it's simply that because of his body being a fishman it's impossible for him to be at full strength when on-land. It's been stated within the manga countless amounts of times that fishmen are not as strong on-land as they are in water (their strength gets magnified) and Jimbei even said it himself that he won't be of much help on-land and then showed some pretty good on-land feats meaning his in-water feats are that much better. 

I don't know how many times this has to be said, but Jimbei's right beside water, where do you gather that Jimbei won't be at full power? Zoro has the intent to kill, he's not going to idly sit by whilst Jimbei's in the water, he's blood-lusted and wanting Jimbei dead... Jimbei within the water will just spam Yarinami/Uchimizu which will be MUCH stronger/faster than Hody's/his on-land versions and Zoro doesn't have the same KH/reaction time feats Luffy does meaning it's dubious as to how long he'd be able to keep up with Jimbei. 



Coruscation said:


> Fishman Island told us Jimbei (true power) ~ Luffy > Jimbei (restricted i.e. land) ~ Sanji. Not Jimbei >> Luffy = Jimbei (restricted).



The way you guys interpret this is laughable, FI told us that Jimbei (on-land) *=* Luffy > Zoro > Sanji, Jimbei within the water is *significantly stronger* than that. In addition to that, how you came to the conclusion that an in-water Jimbei = Luffy is hilarious because Jimbei has yet to show water feats so you have absolutely nothing to compare him to. 

Jimbei with access to water beats Zoro mid-high difficulty.


----------



## Tiger (Oct 13, 2013)

GaaraoftheDesert1 said:


> Jimbe is equal to Ace.
> Zoro is weaker than Ace.



1. Jinbe _was_ equal to Ace
2. Arguable


----------



## Tony Stark (Oct 13, 2013)

Can somebody link the page where Ace and Jinbei fought, can't even remember if Ace had the Mera Mera back then.


----------



## monkey d ace (Oct 13, 2013)

S1: jinbie mid-high diff
S2: jinbie high-extreme diff


----------



## Tiger (Oct 13, 2013)

Tony Stark said:


> Can somebody link the page where Ace and Jinbei fought, can't even remember if Ace had the Mera Mera back then.



Was off-panel


----------



## Xcoyote (Oct 14, 2013)

Jinbe shits on the f*g.


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## Coruscation (Oct 14, 2013)

> You're implying Jimbei would water stall. Karakusagawara Seiken utilizes water vapor in the air to release a shockwave, if there's more water, there's more water vapor thus meaning the shockwave produced by KS is stronger.



I'm afraid it doesn't work out that easily. The attack did no damage to Luffy in FI where they were literally completely surrounded by water. I'm not implying Jimbei necessarily would water stall. I said the opposite. He -could-, and that would make Zoro unable to beat him, but the flip side is that it would make Jimbei equally as unable to beat Zoro because Zoro can simply land-stall to counter.



> he's displayed the ability to block sharp attacks with Samehada Shotei



He pushed one of Moria's scissors to the side with the palm of his hand. It's a move closer to what Luffy did to Cavendish than a "blocking sharp attacks generically move". It's not dealing with three swords coming at him at once nor flying slashes as those have nothing to push aside like a normal sword does. It could be helpful against single-sword techniques but that's not really any different from what Luffy or Sanji could do by kicking or pushing the sword away.



> Jimbei's shown extremely strong feats such as Buraikan and 7k Brick Roundhouse Kick, if you think those won't effect Zoro when the former launched a several hundred/thousand ton giant into the air and the latter being able to break his finger... Damn.



I have no idea what you're talking about. Won't affect Zoro? When have I said anything like that? Of course Jimbei would rough Zoro up good with his moves. You're making completely irrelevant points, just namedropping attacks as if that makes an argument.



> On-land Jimbei was comparable to G2 Luffy, G2 Luffy > Zoro. I don't know how you've been able to process that as Jimbei being in-water and being equal to Luffy as him being at full strength but I'd love to hear your reasoning,



Uhh, no. Generic G2 moves w/o Hardening have nothing on Zoro's power attacks. Just compare what Jet Bullet (a much stronger move than Jet Stamp, for reference) did to the dragon to what Shi Shishi Sonson did.

You've heard my reasoning. It's as simple as _there is absolutely nothing whatsoever in the manga implying that Jimbei with only a fraction of his power is equal to Luffy's full power_. I'm not the one who needs to put up, you are, because that's the proposition YOU'RE making. That because of one tiny short scuffle where neither went all-out I'm supposed to accept that Jimbei without even needing his true strength is on par with Luffy pushing himself to the absolute limit. No. Not going to happen.



> I don't think you understand that Jimbei isn't at full strength when on land, he's at full strength when immersed in water



What _are_ you talking about? Are you reading properly? This is exactly what I've been hammering on from the very start so I'm not sure what went wrong in your interpretive process.



> FI told us that Jimbei (on-land) = Luffy > Zoro > Sanji, Jimbei within the water is significantly stronger than that.



No, it freaking didn't. Jimbei (on-land) *when the actual fights went down* was matched with Sanji, each making parallel moves of comparable magnitude. Meanwhile Luffy was pulling off a move that absolutely ECLIPSED anything Jimbei's shown on land, and you're claiming to go by feats? Laughable. You have absolutely no basis whatsoever for arriving at the conclusion that a handicapped land-locked Jimbei is on par with full power Luffy.


----------



## GIORNO (Oct 14, 2013)

Coruscation said:


> I'm afraid it doesn't work out that easily. The attack did no damage to Luffy in FI where they were literally completely surrounded by water. I'm not implying Jimbei necessarily would water stall. I said the opposite. He -could-, and that would make Zoro unable to beat him, but the flip side is that it would make Jimbei equally as unable to beat Zoro because Zoro can simply land-stall to counter.



Yes it does work that easily. I'm surprised you bring up their FI fight when it was obvious the area they were in was coated with the Yarukiman resin... Thus meaning no additional vapor goes in/out of it meaning Jimbei on FI *<* Jimbei at Arlong Park _in regards to being able to control water vapor_. If the bubbles could handle water vapor they wouldn't be able to descend... That's the whole reason why they need them because they're less buoyant than the water itself meaning if water vapor could get in it wouldn't be an effective way of descending to FI because moist air (vapor) rises... In addition to that, the reason they need the Kuuigosu is to ascend because as I said, the bubbles don't contain water vapor.



Coruscation said:


> He pushed one of Moria's scissors to the side with the palm of his hand. It's a move closer to what Luffy did to Cavendish than a "blocking sharp attacks generically move". It's not dealing with three swords coming at him at once nor flying slashes as those have nothing to push aside like a normal sword does. It could be helpful against single-sword techniques but that's not really any different from what Luffy or Sanji could do by kicking or pushing the sword away.



I couldn't really tell where he was blocking it from whether it be the bottom (blade) or the side of the bottom (not the blade). I also did say I wasn't sure of it's efficacy against Zoro but that it shouldn't be excluded as a possible defense against Zoro's swordsmanship. 



Coruscation said:


> I have no idea what you're talking about. Won't affect Zoro? When have I said anything like that? Of course Jimbei would rough Zoro up good with his moves. You're making completely irrelevant points, just namedropping attacks as if that makes an argument.



Lol, I'm calling them by their names because it's easier to do so than to dance around what I'm talking about and to emphasize what they did to Wadatsumi who's significantly heavier than Zoro meaning that if Jimbei could kick Wadatsumi up into the air as easily as he did who's presumably several hundred/thousand tons, if he landed a hit like that on Zoro that would most likely break a bone or two... That kick is much stronger than the kick Vergo landed on Sanji and Sanji's leg cracked. It's not irrelevant, you're refuting it because you can't argue against it. If Jimbei lands these hits Zoro's down for the count, he's durable but a broken bone's a broken bone.



Coruscation said:


> Uhh, no. Generic G2 moves w/o Hardening have nothing on Zoro's power attacks. Just compare what Jet Bullet (a much stronger move than Jet Stamp, for reference) did to the dragon to what Shi Shishi Sonson did.



Dat nitpicking. I thought it was implied that Haki was going to be involved but okay. 



Coruscation said:


> You've heard my reasoning. It's as simple as _there is absolutely nothing whatsoever in the manga implying that Jimbei with only a fraction of his power is equal to Luffy's full power_. I'm not the one who needs to put up, you are, because that's the proposition YOU'RE making. That because of one tiny short scuffle where neither went all-out I'm supposed to accept that Jimbei without even needing his true strength is on par with Luffy pushing himself to the absolute limit. No. Not going to happen.



No, I actually haven't. I'm not making any proposition, I'm telling you how it is and you're ignoring it, there's not much more we can do about that. I also don't think you read my full statement, I said a G2 Luffy for a reason.



Coruscation said:


> What _are_ you talking about? Are you reading properly? This is exactly what I've been hammering on from the very start so I'm not sure what went wrong in your interpretive process.



Maybe you're unable to construct a sentence properly but this statement below means that people underestimate how Jimbei *'CAN'T'* _(implying that he can)_ use his true strength on land. Maybe you just made a typo, but there is absolutely NO WAY Jimbei can use his true strength on land. You should watch out for your wording. Regardless, Jimbei can use his full strength as can Zoro so your point is moot.



Coruscation said:


> Luffy = Jimbei is true, more or less. When both are at full power. Luffy = Jimbei with only 80% of his abilities? Nope. People underestimate how Jimbei can't use his true strength on land. He isn't beating Zoro under conditions where Zoro can use full power and Jimbei can't.





Coruscation said:


> No, it freaking didn't. Jimbei (on-land) *when the actual fights went down* was matched with Sanji, each making parallel moves of comparable magnitude. Meanwhile Luffy was pulling off a move that absolutely ECLIPSED anything Jimbei's shown on land, and you're claiming to go by feats? Laughable. You have absolutely no basis whatsoever for arriving at the conclusion that a handicapped land-locked Jimbei is on par with full power Luffy.



You are joking right? You're using Jimbei's tag team with Sanji as your argument for as to why Jimbei's less than Luffy? C'mon bro... I know you're better than that. You and I both know why Jimbei didn't fight Hody and it's not due to their strength, it's due to the fact that Luffy's a human and Jimbei wanted Luffy to be the savior of FI to show the other fishmen that not all humans are bad... 

Luffy showed a singular feat of strength that surpasses what Jimbei showed on-land, *but* not only can Luffy not use that move whenever he wants but also, he hasn't shown the ability to use it in a frontal fight which he'd most likely be fighting Jimbei or whoever have you in. 

Again, you failed to read the scenario, he's _not_ land-locked.


----------



## Kishido (Oct 14, 2013)

Jinbe = Ace cuz Ace stopped evolving after joining the world strongest crew and/or Jinbe had the same growth rate as a teen praised by the whole world for his potential and growth rate

Jinbe = Luffy cuz he blocked a punch... As Franyk did in W7... And for wanting to join him seeing that he can protect Fishmen Island soon while Jinbe admitted can do shit and went for Big Mom

but even more

Jinbe = Luffy = *BASE Hyozou* cuz* BASE Hyozou* blocked a jet attack as well... 

And of course Jinbe > Zoro/Sanji cuz of Fishmen Island and him being unimpressed after seeing Luffy's true growth (COC scene) while Zoro and Sanji where all about... Expected Captain

Oh wait... Where are the mistakes? Wait I forgot he blocked a punch by Akainu.


----------



## Slenderman (Oct 14, 2013)

TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> If all Jimbei knows is water spears, I'm going to be disappointed (especially since it was noted that he was forced to restrain himself from sinking the ship they needed at Impel Down). Also, Jimbei could intercept Gear 2 Luffy when he was in Impel Down, and even after the TS, managed to catch Luffy offguard with a Fishman Karate move (Luffy's reaction speed > Zoro's reaction speed), and could react, block, and tank Luffy's Jet Stamp.
> 
> 
> I've already discussed what Jimbei can do on land from what's been shown so far (sent a drugged giant flying with a kick and stopped him again with a handful of water). Tell  me, what can Zoro do if Jimbei's 7000 Brick Roundhouse Kick (which broke the finger Jimbei's kick landed on the giant) lands on him?
> ...



Please enlighten me does Jinbe have another mode called fishman mode? Akainu just got two fists from WB and he still was there. If that was a fresh Akainu that would have went through his hand. Also I wasn't even talking to you so I don't know why you're replying to questions that I told him. Please show me Jinbe's superhuman underwater feats.  I know he's stronger underwater but we have seen Zoro negate a fishman underwater speed. JInbe does not look like a speedster. Zoro blitzed a fishman underwater. Avoid it all you want but Oda doesn't do this stuff for shit's and giggles.


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## Laspes (Oct 14, 2013)

Zoro mid/high


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## Tiger (Oct 14, 2013)

Kishido said:


> Jinbe = Ace cuz Ace stopped evolving after joining the world strongest crew and/or Jinbe had the same growth rate as a teen praised by the whole world for his potential and growth rate
> 
> Jinbe = Luffy cuz he blocked a punch... As Franyk did in W7... And for wanting to join him seeing that he can protect Fishmen Island soon while Jinbe admitted can do shit and went for Big Mom
> 
> ...



So salty, lol.

But yeah, not sure where people are getting this notion that Jinbe is still above the M3 when they're not all underwater.


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## Coruscation (Oct 14, 2013)

> Yes it does work that easily



Uhh, no. It doesn't. Your overanalyzing things weighs a lot less than the fact of Fishman Island being an entire island surrounded by water.



> emphasize what they did to Wadatsumi who's significantly heavier than Zoro meaning that if Jimbei could kick Wadatsumi up into the air as easily as he did who's presumably several hundred/thousand tons, if he landed a hit like that on Zoro that would most likely break a bone



You're talking completely out of your ass. Weight is completely irrelevant, Luffy threw a huge boulder while injured as his pre-skip self, and Jimbei didn't kick him "up into the air", he simply pushed his attack backwards and made him fall over. If you're talking about when he went flying upwards like a balloon losing his air then well, that's what it was, not Jimbei knocking him up. All Jimbei did was hit him and make him spit his air out which was the whole plan Sanji and he devised. Speaking of Sanji he made Wadatsumi spin 90 degrees with his kick.



> That kick is much stronger than the kick Vergo landed on Sanji and Sanji's leg cracked.



More talking out of your ass. Baseless assertions are not an argument. You don't have an inkling of evidence that Vergo wouldn't break Wadatsumi's bones with that kick as easily as Jimbei forced him backwards. Vergo cracked Sanji's leg by virtue of extreme hardness and not the speed of the attack in any event. Smoker and Law took multiple blows from those same Vergo's attacks and their bodies didn't break apart. Zoro has among the absolute best toughness of anyone in the series relatively speaking. It's laughable to believe he would be defeated by single hits from Jimbei.



> It's not irrelevant, you're refuting it because you can't argue against it. If Jimbei lands these hits Zoro's down for the count



You are only asserting things. You're literally only giving off random speculation and claiming "this is the case". You can't say "if Zoro takes this he is out" without major evidence of it being so, which you are hilariously devoid of since Zoro has not taken a single hit since the timeskip for you to even begin trying to judge the limits of his endurance. This doesn't come close to qualifying as an argument.



> I'm not making any proposition, I'm telling you how it is and you're ignoring it, there's not much more we can do about that.



No, you aren't. You're asserting things with absolutely no logic behind them and not only that, you have the audacity to claim them as facts.



> Maybe you're unable to construct a sentence properly but this statement below means that people underestimate how Jimbei 'CAN'T' (implying that he can) use his true strength on land. Maybe you just made a typo



I have no idea what you're talking about. How did you read my sentence that way? Or do you not know what underestimate means? People underestimate (the magnitude of the fact) that Jimbei can't use his full power on land. How you somehow got me asserting that Jimbei is full power on land I have no idea and clearly you must not have been reading my posts with any kind of eye for the broader argument if you seriously thought that's what I was saying. Jimbei is significantly restricted and there is absolutely no basis in the manga for claiming that Jimbei is equal to a full power Luffy and above a full power Zoro when significantly handicapped.



> You are joking right? You're using Jimbei's tag team with Sanji as your argument for as to why Jimbei's less than Luffy?



Not one bit and all the faux incredulous "c'mon bro" you can vomit won't make a real argument, so put up. Luffy and Jimbei had a short scuffle where neither went all-out. Sanji and Jimbei were portrayed alongside each other for an extended period of time and matched each other's big finishers equally, while Luffy's, in turn, absolutely eclipsed either. Which means more? Clearly it's the latter as far as Jimbei's power on land goes. Luffy > Sanji ~ landlocked Jimbei. That was shown. Jimbei may yet be on par with Luffy's full power sure but not without his own full power.



> Luffy showed a singular feat of strength that surpasses what Jimbei showed on-land, but not only can Luffy not use that move whenever he wants but also, he hasn't shown the ability to use it in a frontal fight which he'd most likely be fighting Jimbei or whoever have you in.



Woah, you can at least be selectively critical? You go on endlessly about Luffy = Jimbei while completely ignoring the nuances of that entire situation. But when Luffy absolutely eclipses Jimbei with Elephant Gatling you immediately throw out a range of excuses as to why, nah, _this_ time the feat doesn't mean anything. It's obvious that you're not even trying to look at this the slightest bit neutrally and it makes you look very silly.



> Again, you failed to read the scenario, he's not land-locked.



No, you failed to read my posts. If Jimbei waterstalls Zoro can simply counter by landstalling. Zoro isn't going to run up and try to fight Jimbei in the water because that makes no sense, as Zoro is far more handicapped in water than Jimbei is on land. That fight will go nowhere until Jimbei comes up.


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## GIORNO (Oct 14, 2013)

Coruscation said:


> Uhh, no. It doesn't. Your overanalyzing things weighs a lot less than the fact of Fishman Island being an entire island surrounded by water.



You just removed the whole part of my argument as to why there's no additional water vapor, well done. It doesn't matter where FI is located, it's surrounded by Yarukiman resin meaning there's no water vapor seeping in or else it would float to the top of the sea. You're not taking this into consideration thus your statement about Jimbei having more control over the water where Luffy met him is incorrect.



Coruscation said:


> You're talking completely out of your ass. Weight is completely irrelevant, Luffy threw a huge boulder while injured as his pre-skip self, and Jimbei didn't kick him "up into the air", he simply pushed his attack backwards and made him fall over. If you're talking about when he went flying upwards like a balloon losing his air then well, that's what it was, not Jimbei knocking him up. All Jimbei did was hit him and make him spit his air out which was the whole plan Sanji and he devised. Speaking of Sanji he made Wadatsumi spin 90 degrees with his kick.



LOL, please explain to me how weight is irrelevant? It shows you the pressure of the water shockwave, the fact that he was able to toss a giant of Wadatsumi's size up into the air you some how miraculously think that Zoro can tank this? Now who's talking out of their ass? Zoro's never received a blow that powerful before and you think the same water shockwave that launched a giant up into the air wouldn't be effective against Zoro or randomly not injure him?



Coruscation said:


> You are only asserting things. You're literally only giving off random speculation and claiming "this is the case". You can't say "if Zoro takes this he is out" without major evidence of it being so, which you are hilariously devoid of since Zoro has not taken a single hit since the timeskip for you to even begin trying to judge the limits of his endurance. This doesn't come close to qualifying as an argument.



We're basing this off of feats, are we not? There's nothing to suggest Zoro can take more damage than he could Pre-TS, sure it's a logical assumption but it's not a fact. It's not random speculation, there's no proof to suggest Zoro is more durable than he was Pre-TS and Pre-TS Zoro could only take in the damage he received from Ryuma + Moriah in addition to Luffy's exhaustion and he was out, that's his greatest durability feat. Jimbei can dish out more damage than what Zoro received at TB unless you randomly think Jimbei's that weak. 

I'm *not* saying Zoro's equally as durable as he was Pre-TS, but he has no Post-TS durability feats so the best durability feat he has that we can go by is his own durability + Luffy's exhaustion from TB and like I said, Jimbei > that, unless you think otherwise.



Coruscation said:


> No, you aren't. You're asserting things with absolutely no logic behind them and not only that, you have the audacity to claim them as facts.



No logic? It's in the manga yet you're asserting your opinion as if your opinion is fact when the manga clearly contradicts what you're saying. Oda wrote it that way for a reason, if you can't see the symbolism behind it then so be it. 



Coruscation said:


> I have no idea what you're talking about. How did you read my sentence that way? Or do you not know what underestimate means? People underestimate (the magnitude of the fact) that Jimbei can't use his full power on land. How you somehow got me asserting that Jimbei is full power on land I have no idea and clearly you must not have been reading my posts with any kind of eye for the broader argument if you seriously thought that's what I was saying. Jimbei is significantly restricted and there is absolutely no basis in the manga for claiming that Jimbei is equal to a full power Luffy and above a full power Zoro when significantly handicapped.



Your sentence did not mean that when you initially wrote it, it grammatically does not mean the same thing as _"People underestimate (the magnitude of the fact) that Jimbei can't use his full power on land."_. You need the addendum for it to make sense grammatically. Wow, it's like I'm talking to a wall, he's NOT handicapped, he has water man. For whatever reason you're asserting your opinion of Jimbei having to water stall as a fact and it's not even remotely close to being a fact it's merely just your own opinion as to what will happen. Dat hypocrisy.



Coruscation said:


> Not one bit and all the faux incredulous "c'mon bro" you can vomit won't make a real argument, so put up. Luffy and Jimbei had a short scuffle where neither went all-out. Sanji and Jimbei were portrayed alongside each other for an extended period of time and matched each other's big finishers equally, while Luffy's, in turn, absolutely eclipsed either. Which means more? Clearly it's the latter as far as Jimbei's power on land goes. Luffy > Sanji ~ landlocked Jimbei. That was shown. Jimbei may yet be on par with Luffy's full power sure but not without his own full power.



Again, you nitpick my argument. Address the full thing if you're going to address it at all. I told you why Jimbei fought with Sanji and it's not due to a lack of strength, Jimbei would take down Hody far faster than Luffy would have had Jimbei fought him in the same predicament, Luffy fought Hody because of the symbolism. I'm surprised that you can't pick up on these cues, there's more to the story than just the fighting, Oda doesn't just focus on the fights, he focuses on what they mean/represent as a whole and if you can't see that then there's not much I can do for you. 



Coruscation said:


> Woah, you can at least be selectively critical? You go on endlessly about Luffy = Jimbei while completely ignoring the nuances of that entire situation. But when Luffy absolutely eclipses Jimbei with Elephant Gatling you immediately throw out a range of excuses as to why, nah, _this_ time the feat doesn't mean anything. It's obvious that you're not even trying to look at this the slightest bit neutrally and it makes you look very silly.



What? Any of Luffy's top G3 attacks eclipse anything Jimbei's shown, thus I said Jimbei = G2 Luffy, you clearly can't read man. It's not an excuse, it's a limitation. EGG is not a type of attack Luffy can use in a frontal fight unless you think he can in which case my hat's off to you. I'm not being neutral? You think Jimbei's not at full strength in this scenario simply because he'd 'have' to water stall, dat hypocrisy.


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## Lawliet (Oct 14, 2013)

I'm not sure if I remember this correctly, but wasn't Wadutsmi half air when Jinbei kicked him? Didn't they provoke him to keep inhaling more and more air? So that's first. 
2nd,  Zoro has been taking more lethal hits than that from the beginning of the series. A slash from Mihawk to the chest, and let's not forget when he survived a hit from Oz in TB, and absorbing all of Luffy's pain. If you seriously think Zoro is going down by mere kicks and punches from Jinbei, then you're either blinded by your hatred towards Zoro, or with all due respect, stupidity.


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## Firo (Oct 14, 2013)

Kishido said:


> Jinbe = Ace cuz Ace stopped evolving after joining the world strongest crew and/or Jinbe had the same growth rate as a teen praised by the whole world for his potential and growth rate
> 
> Jinbe = Luffy cuz he blocked a punch... As Franyk did in W7... And for wanting to join him seeing that he can protect Fishmen Island soon while Jinbe admitted can do shit and went for Big Mom
> 
> ...


Im just gonna ask.  But from your post its obvious.
You do know that your arguments are fallacious right?


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Oct 14, 2013)

Slenderman said:


> Please enlighten me does Jinbe have another mode called fishman mode? Akainu just got two fists from WB and he still was there.* If that was a fresh Akainu that would have went through his hand*.


Akainu attacked Jimbei *BEFORE* Whitebeard laid the smackdown on Akainu. Nice try.


Slenderman said:


> Please show me Jinbe's superhuman underwater feats.


Since we're comparing Jimbei to fodder, Monster Hody was nowhere near Jimbei's level, yet Monster Hody was able to catch a Mermaid (known for their speed) underwater.


Slenderman said:


> JInbe does not look like a speedster.


Caught Gear 2 Luffy Pre TS, caught Post TS Luffy offguard, intercepted and tanked Luffy's attacks, and blocked Hody's attack before Luffy was able to, and Luffy was already prepping himself to stop the attack.


Slenderman said:


> I know he's stronger underwater but we have seen Zoro negate a fishman underwater speed.
> Zoro blitzed a fishman underwater. Avoid it all you want but Oda doesn't do this stuff for shit's and giggles.


Zoro beat Hody (I'm sure Hody was taking Zoro seriously underwater), who was trash before and after his transformations. And Zoro's speed and strength is reduced underwater.


oOLawlietOo said:


> I'm not sure if I remember this correctly, but wasn't Wadutsmi half air when Jinbei kicked him? Didn't they provoke him to keep inhaling more and more air?


Nope. An enraged non-inflated Wadutsumi punched first. When he was inflated, Jimbei just took a handful of water, and fired a giant ass burst through him.


oOLawlietOo said:


> 2nd,  Zoro has been taking more lethal hits than that from the beginning of the series. A slash from Mihawk to the chest, and let's not forget when he survived a hit from Oz in TB, and absorbing all of Luffy's pain.


I'm sure Mihawk was aiming to kill...
Jimbei took out Moria, the guy who ate Luffy's Nightmare and Gear 3 attacks and who nearly killed the SH Crew on Thriller Bark, with just one punch.
Too bad Zoro couldn't move from taking all of that pain, much less fight.
Btw, the Yeti Cool Brothers beat Zoro, wow, guess their attacks are just as if not stronger than all of the ones listed. 


oOLawlietOo said:


> If you seriously think Zoro is going down by mere kicks and punches from Jinbei, then you're either blinded by your hatred towards Zoro, or with all due respect, stupidity.


Debating skills at its finest. 


♠Law♠ said:


> Im just gonna ask.  But from your post its obvious.
> You do know that your arguments are fallacious right?



Hey, Hyouzu, a fodder reacted to Gear 2 Luffy! That's a feat! Makes Luffy fodder! By that logic, Hody blocked Zoro's slash, pre Monster Phase, and wasn't near Jimbei's level, so Zoro must be fodder too!


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## Tiger (Oct 14, 2013)

♠Law♠ said:


> Im just gonna ask.  But from your post its obvious.
> You do know that your arguments are fallacious right?



His entire post was facetious to show the Jinbe-supporters why they're being ridiculous.


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## zorokuma (Oct 14, 2013)

wait, people think that one hit from jinbe can take out zoro??

Pre skip zoro can survive what he went through against kuma, after his battle with oz and all the other crap he went through...PRE SKIP.

But post skip Zoro, POST SKIP, cant take a hit from Jinbe??

It would be a great fight, but zoro will take it.


and if jinbe did somehow beat him, it would for sureeeeee not be from one hit!


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## GIORNO (Oct 14, 2013)

Law said:


> His entire post was facetious to show the Jinbe-supporters why they're being ridiculous.



It's quite funny that you say that without any of you supplying us with sufficient Zoro feats that could put Jimbei down. You guys miraculously think Zoro can slice Jimbei up like butter.


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## Kishido (Oct 15, 2013)

♠Law♠ said:


> Im just gonna ask.  But from your post its obvious.
> You do know that your arguments are fallacious right?





Law said:


> His entire post was facetious to show the Jinbe-supporters why they're being ridiculous.



2 Law's but such a difference


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## Slenderman (Oct 15, 2013)

TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> Akainu attacked Jimbei *BEFORE* Whitebeard laid the smackdown on Akainu. Nice try.
> 
> Since we're comparing Jimbei to fodder, Monster Hody was nowhere near Jimbei's level, yet Monster Hody was able to catch a Mermaid (known for their speed) underwater.
> 
> ...



If you read properly I said if he didn't fight WB nice try on trying to twist my words. Hyozou blocked a jet attack is Hyozou any where near Luffy? No. Luffy nor Jinbei were using their high end attacks. Moria fought pre skip Luffy and crew awesome job. Jinbei would have raped them. Moria was so weak to the Sichi that they kicked him out something that we've never seen before. This logic is weird. There are brute force attacks like RH and they do lots of damage. The yeti's caught Zoro of guard and they knocked them out with a gas that almost anyone could fall to. CC beat Luffy due to no knowledge and hax. If I go by your logic Luffy's weaker then CC. Don't talk to me about debating if you can't even form an argument. Jet stamp is not Luffy's strongest attack. If Luffy used RH that would have been different. Like I said Hyozou tanked a jet pistol so that shows  that Luffy has stronger attacks. Also the last paragraph was contradicting you're whole statement about Jinbe tanking a G2 move that's not hard to do. CC did it. Next time try to make a non faulty argument with you not contradicting yourself.


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## Firo (Oct 15, 2013)

Kishido said:


> 2 Law's but such a difference



Okay. Thought you really believed that. I had no idea it was sarcasm.


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## Kishido (Oct 15, 2013)

♠Law♠ said:


> Okay. Thought you really believed that. I had no idea it was sarcasm.



No problem... You seem to be new around here after all


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## B Rabbit (Oct 15, 2013)

Why is this thread still going? 

Zoro wins.


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## November (Oct 15, 2013)

Big ass walls of text.


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## Meigo (Oct 17, 2013)

5 pages?

Jinbe wins.


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## trance (Oct 17, 2013)

It can go either way imo.


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## Zorofangirl24 (Oct 17, 2013)

Jinbei's kicks and punches will do zero damage to Zoro. This fight is like a child vs a brick wall, except the brick wall can attack back. Zoro wins easily.


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## Slenderman (Oct 18, 2013)

^ Zolo solo's


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## Tiger (Oct 19, 2013)

яανєи said:


> It's quite funny that you say that without any of you supplying us with sufficient Zoro feats that could put Jimbei down. You guys miraculously think Zoro can slice Jimbei up like butter.



Jinbe can't tank the attack that cut off the Dragon's head or sliced through multi-foot thick steel doors on Punk Hazard. Countering a punch has absolutely no relevance to tanking a slicing attack. He can't just kick a sword away like he did Wadat-joke-sumi's punch. He gets his leg flayed right open if he tries, even if his counter-attack sends Zoro flying.

And...Jinbe's attacks will _hurt_, but nothing compared to the damage Zoro's already been able to shrug off. That kind of damage would only serve to make him angry and serious. He'd put his bandana on, and fuck up Jinbe's whole program in ten seconds, while saying something like "My my, you were able to kill my boredom after all."

You can't just put Jinbe up against his worst possible opponent on the Strawhats and expect him to pull off some miraculous victory on land. That's _ridiculous_. The onus should be on Jinbe-supporters to prove why he doesn't get cut into pieces, not on the Zoro-supporters who just have to pick up the manga, open the pages and point to it to show why they think Zoro would win. Sometimes when something is so fucking obvious, proof comes secondary to "_just fucking read_".

Jinbe and Sanji match up much better in damage soak, offensive capability, and fighting style. Their fight would be one to really pay attention to. Not the one this thread is focused on. Not at all. Acting like it would take a "miracle" to cut through Jinbe when he's shown all of 0 feats to suggest he has any kind of extraordinary slash-tanking feats whatsoever.

I don't have to prove _shit_.


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## Dellinger (Oct 19, 2013)

Jinbe was able to take attacks from Akainu,the fuck is this.

He can take many attacks from Zoro.


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## Freechoice (Oct 19, 2013)

Winbe                .


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## Shiny (Oct 19, 2013)

Zolo still soloes


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## Kishido (Oct 19, 2013)

White Hawk said:


> Jinbe was able to take attacks from Akainu,the fuck is this.
> 
> He can take many attacks from Zoro.



He took 2 attacks...

1 attack: Akainu never aimed at Jinbe... Jinbe stepped in blocked with his arm, which in return burned into crisp...

Mihawk and Marco saved the day... Jinbe runs away

2 attack: Went straight through him... Jinbe passed out.

Yup impressive... Even if Luffy during the war "tanked" more attacks by admirals and Mihawk.


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## Tiger (Oct 19, 2013)

White Hawk said:


> Jinbe was able to take attacks from Akainu,the fuck is this.
> 
> He can take many attacks from Zoro.



Jinbe didn't "take" anything. He got his hand burned up, and then got a hole punched in his torso, where he was just fucking lucky he didn't die, and he was down for the count.



Kishido said:


> He took 2 attacks...
> 
> 1 attack: Akainu never aimed at Jinbe... Jinbe stepped in blocked with his arm, which in return burned into crisp...
> 
> ...



Yup, except it was Vista and Marco, not Mihawk and Marco, lol

Crocodile ended up being the one who saved Luffy's life when Jinbe couldn't get away from Akainu.

"If you're going to do something; do it right."

Croc's coolest moment.

Jinbe can't tank sword slashes that slice through multi-foot solid steel or that Dragon's neck. The idea is insane, and his supporters have to prove he can before moving on, not the other way around. And you'll have a tough time doing that, since he's shown zero evidence of being able to do so.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Oct 19, 2013)

The fuck is this ? People saying that Jinbe(Yes Jinbe, not Jimbei or Jinbei) could do nothing to Zoro if the blow connects ? Jinbe would knock out Zoro with 5 to 7 free shots . Zoro feat wise > Jinbe though . So Zoro wins .


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## Zorofangirl24 (Oct 19, 2013)

butthurt Sanji fans here trying to equalize Zoro and Sanji as usual.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Oct 19, 2013)

Zorofangirl24 said:


> butthurt Sanji fans here trying to equalize Zoro and Sanji as usual.



I don't see anyone doing this(I just read page 6 though) .


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## Slenderman (Oct 19, 2013)

White Hawk said:


> Jinbe was able to take attacks from Akainu,the fuck is this.
> 
> He can take many attacks from Zoro.



The first one got his hand almost melted and then he ran and Vista and Marco had to come in and save him. The second one was Jinbe who got hit and then he hit the ice struggling to get back up and he didn't even get back up he tried to protect Luffy but he fell unconscious. Pre timeskip Luffy took attacks from Sentoumaru yet he was no where near him. Taking one attack is different from taking 4 or 5 attacks. It'll be a good fight but in the end Zoro wins high diff.


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## Kishido (Oct 19, 2013)

Law said:


> Jinbe didn't "take" anything. He got his hand burned up, and then got a hole punched in his torso, where he was just fucking lucky he didn't die, and he was down for the count.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You are right. I am drunken as fuck...

But Mihawk or Vista. What does it matter?


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## Shiny (Oct 19, 2013)

if it was mihawk,akainu would be dead  now


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## GIORNO (Oct 27, 2013)

White Hawk said:


> Jinbe was able to take attacks from Akainu,the fuck is this.
> 
> He can take many attacks from Zoro.



These kids are retarded, they think because someone has a sword they're automatically a God. I wouldn't be surprised if they thought Mihawk was the strongest char in OP.



Law said:


> I can't prove _shit_.



Yeah I know, it's a sad life bro.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Oct 27, 2013)

Shiny said:


> if it was mihawk,akainu would be dead  now


Yup, cause Akainu took attacks from two Whitebeard Commanders with no injury, then took an earthquake to the head, and then survived an island spliiter. No way their attacks come even close to Mihawk.


Law said:


> *I don't have to prove shit*.





White Hawk said:


> Jinbe was able to take attacks from Akainu,the fuck is this.
> 
> He can take many attacks from Zoro.


+Rep for the truth.


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## Slenderman (Oct 27, 2013)

^ Necroing threads gets people mad so don't try to bring back the old threads. Not a big deal to me but not everybody is me.


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## Shiny (Oct 27, 2013)

it was just 8days since the last post bro lol


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## Slenderman (Oct 27, 2013)

Oh. I didn't know.


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## Laspes (Oct 28, 2013)

Based on gut feeling, I see this thread surviving until end of times


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