# Fun Scenario: Godzilla attacks Konoha



## LeBoyka (May 8, 2014)

In light of the upcoming Godzilla movie, by Legendary films, I think this would be a somewhat fun scenario to discuss for shits and giggles. 

*Scenario:*

Obito arrives at Konoha as he did during the nine-tails attack. Except this time Kushina is not the host of the kyubbi; she holds within herself Godzilla (Final Wars version). Let's say Obito releases it on Konoha. Can Konoha stop Zilla from wrecking the Leaf? (This is Konoha at the time of the nine-tails attack.). 

BTW here are some feats and facts from Final Wars Godzilla, for those who might not have enough info on the big radioactive lizard from hell:
* Tanked city-busting attacks
* Shot a meteor from the upper atmosphere with his atomic breath 
* Incredible regeneration ability
* Lots of stamina (enough to fight a long list of monsters bigger than the Kyubbi). 
* Over 60 meters tall


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## ueharakk (May 8, 2014)

LeBoyka said:


> * Lots of stamina (enough to fight a long list of monsters bigger than the Kyubbi).
> * Over 60 meters tall







To me it seems the 100% kyuubi is bigger than all the monsters in the film bar kaiserghidorah.


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## Nikushimi (May 8, 2014)

FW Godzilla throws the Kyuubi into space like he did Ghidorah.

Konoha gets stomped and bathed in radioactive flames.

This is the wrong section for this thread, btw; it belongs in the OBD, but they will probably just tell you what a mistake it is.


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## LeBoyka (May 9, 2014)

@ueharakk

You must have poor eye-sight buddy. Those buildings in Konoha aren't even close to the size of the buildings Godzilla towers over. The building he destroys in the picture you linked is the Sydney opera house (over 60 meters tall.) and Godzilla is clearly larger than it. 

Most buildings in Konoha aren't even near that size (unless you think six to ten story buildings are tall.). The full-sized Kyubbi is definitely not larger than Godzilla.

@Nikushimi

Gracias


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## Nikushimi (May 9, 2014)

The official height for Gamabunta is something like 100m, I think.

The Bijuu are about that size...maybe a little bigger.

And the full Kyuubi is the biggest Bijuu, I'm pretty sure.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's much larger than Godzilla.

That's not stopping him from sending it into orbit, though.


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## Rocky (May 9, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> That's not stopping him from sending it into orbit, though.



Minato marks Kurama, which get's thrown into space by Godzilla. 

Minato then FCD's Godzilla and warps it into orbit with the fox.


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## LeBoyka (May 9, 2014)

@Nikushimi

I've never seen an _official_ height for Gamnunta; not even on Narutopedia. But based on the manga and anime, I highly doubt any of the bijuu are near Godzilla's height. Just based on their relative size compared to six to ten story tall buildings. 

But you're right... Godzilla would still toss him into space.


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## Nikushimi (May 9, 2014)

Rocky said:


> Minato marks Kurama, which get's thrown into space by Godzilla.
> 
> Minato then FCD's Godzilla and warps it into orbit with the fox.



Godzilla then vapes the whole village from orbit. Then he turns his breath away from the planet and propels himself back to it like a rocket.


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## Nikushimi (May 9, 2014)

LeBoyka said:


> @Nikushimi
> 
> I've never seen an _official_ height for Gamnunta; not even on Narutopedia. But based on the manga and anime, I highly doubt any of the bijuu are near Godzilla's height. Just based on their relative size compared to six to ten story tall buildings.
> 
> But you're right... Godzilla would still toss him into space.



I think it's either in the official fanbook or one of the databooks... Idk, tbh.

I really don't give a shit about Gamabunta or any of the summons or any of the Bijuu.


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## Kazekage94 (May 9, 2014)

Whoops nvm Godzilla wins


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## Nikushimi (May 9, 2014)

No one in Konoha has enough chakra to summon the Forbidden One.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 9, 2014)

LeBoyka said:


> @ueharakk
> 
> You must have poor eye-sight buddy. Those buildings in Konoha aren't even close to the size of the buildings Godzilla towers over. The building he destroys in the picture you linked is the Sydney opera house (over 60 meters tall.) and Godzilla is clearly larger than it.
> 
> ...


First of all this is the wrong section. Secondly Kurama's maximum size has been put at 400 meters tall. Godzilla is 100 meters tall in Final Wars, and 106 meters tall in the next Legendary film.



LeBoyka said:


> @Nikushimi
> 
> I've never seen an _official_ height for Gamnunta; not even on Narutopedia. But based on the manga and anime, I highly doubt any of the bijuu are near Godzilla's height. Just based on their relative size compared to six to ten story tall buildings.
> 
> But you're right... Godzilla would still toss him into space.


Gamabunta ranges from 90-100 meters depending on who you ask or who calced the size. The Biju range from 91 (Shukaku) to 118 (Gyuki) backed on calcs provided by Lazy Waka.


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## tkpirate (May 9, 2014)

LeBoyka said:


> I've never seen an _official_ height for Gamnunta; .



it was stated in the data book or something.also wrong section,it's needed to be made in OBD.


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## Tom Servo (May 9, 2014)

FW Godzilla is debatably planet level in DC...


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## Turrin (May 9, 2014)

The literally stated in one movie leading up to final wars that Godzilla is invincible due to his G-Cells lol. So yeah no one can beat Godzilla, except perhaps that random Kaizer dude in the Final Wars Movie, which made absolutely no sense.


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## Nikushimi (May 9, 2014)

Tom Servo said:


> FW Godzilla is debatably planet level in DC...



Not even close.



Turrin said:


> The literally stated in one movie leading up to final wars that Godzilla is invincible due to his G-Cells lol. So yeah no one can beat Godzilla, except perhaps that random Kaizer dude in the Final Wars Movie, which made absolutely no sense.



If we're looking across the entire spectrum of fiction, there are plenty of characters who can beat Godzilla.

But yeah, no one here is doing it. Unless Minato can successfully rip his soul out with Shiki Fujin.


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## Turrin (May 9, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> If we're looking across the entire spectrum of fiction, there are plenty of characters who can beat Godzilla.
> 
> But yeah, no one here is doing it. Unless Minato can successfully rip his soul out with Shiki Fujin.


But he's invincible. So at best it would be a draw.


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## Jagger (May 9, 2014)

Godzilla just vaporizes them.

Even then, what the fuck would be Godzilla doing in Konoha?


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## Gallavant (May 9, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> Not even close.




If not debatably planetary, then debateably life wiper to continental because:

-The original King Ghidorah life wiped Venus in less than a day
-The FW movie has lots of references to the Showa era
-Kaiser Godzilla 1 shotted a Kaiser version of King Ghidorah
-Kaisers are massively stronger than non-kaisers


And:

The FW Gorath meteor may not have been planetary in size like the original but

-Massively faster than a natural meteor, in the thousands of mach, went through thousands of kilometer of  thermonuclear atomic breath until it broke apart, rock normally shouldn't be durable enough to do that
-The original showa era Gorath meteor was obviously much more dense/durable than normal rock because of it's 6000x Earth gravity and how it tanked the moon exploding on it
-Perhaps the density/durability per cubic meter of the original Gorath should be scaled to the 2004 FW version?


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## Linkofone (May 9, 2014)

> *Forbidden One*.


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## Bioness (May 9, 2014)

For clarity, Final Wars Godzilla is *100 meters tall*.



Turrin said:


> The literally stated in one movie leading up to final wars that Godzilla is invincible due to his G-Cells lol. So yeah no one can beat Godzilla, except perhaps that random Kaizer dude in the Final Wars Movie, which made absolutely no sense.



The movies have different continuities.

1954 --->Showa
1954 ---> Heisei
1954 ---> Godzilla 2000
1954 ---> Godzilla vs. Megaguirus
1954 ---> Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah: Giant Monsters All-Out Attack
1954 + various Showa Toho movies ---> Godzilla Against MegaGodzilla/Tokyo S.O.S
1954 ---> Godzilla Final Wars

These are all different Godzillas, and the OP explicitly stated this was the Final Wars Godzilla


Turrin said:


> But he's invincible. So at best it would be a draw.







Gallavant said:


> If not debatably planetary, then debateably life wiper to continental because:
> 
> -The original King Ghidorah life wiped Venus in less than a day
> -The FW movie has lots of references to the Showa era
> ...












All the well informed Godzilla fans of the Outskirts Battledome are going have to a headache over the influx of absurdity that will flood this section in the upcoming weeks.


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## Gallavant (May 9, 2014)

Bioness said:


> All the well informed Godzilla fans of the Outskirts Battledome are going have to a headache over the influx of absurdity that will flood this section in the upcoming weeks.



It's *possible*

Normal rock shouldn't be durable enough through getting hit with a mountain sized mass of thermonuclear temperature material for 10+ seconds without getting vaporized, and normal density rock that size moving that fast would have a kinetic energy of high island level. 

A human sized Kaiser was shown raising his hands into the air and causing a mountain sized Mothership made of material durable enough to tank nuclear breath, breath from the same version of Godzilla that busted the meteor, to explode



If a concentrated nuclear attack that can be island level potency or potentially higher, can't even destroy a city block sized portion of the mountain sized mothership material, think how impressive destroying all of it would be.


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## Bioness (May 9, 2014)

Gallavant said:


> It's *possible*
> 
> Normal rock shouldn't be durable enough through a mountain sized mass of thermonuclear temperature material for 10+ seconds without getting vaporized, and normal density rock that size moving that fast would have a kinetic energy of high island level.
> 
> ...



I'm sorry what? Did you even see the fucking movie? What caused the Xilien Mothership to explode wasn't the Controller raising his hands in the air, it was a ship flying into the core Stars Wars style.

You're also making too many assumptions and throwing around words like "mountain" and "island" and "city block" and then attempting to scale it without knowing any of the math. Don't use those terms, I swear I am now loathing when people use those terms because most of the time they have no idea what the fuck they are talking about, like you.


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## Gallavant (May 9, 2014)

Bioness said:


> I'm sorry what? Did you even see the fucking movie? What caused the Xilien Mothership to explode wasn't the Controller raising his hands in the air, it was a ship flying into the core Stars Wars style.



That wasn't the core, that was the forcefield generator, when Kazama sacraficed himself with the jet fighter. That was before the Gotengo even entered the mothership, and before Osaki defeated the Controller kaiser. After the Controller was defeated, he blew up his ship.

The ship was made of material that tanked Godzilla's beam without its forcefields also.


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## Bioness (May 9, 2014)

You are right, apologies then.

Still the Controller didn't use his power to blow up the ship, it is as the subtitles said, the ship was self destructing, i.e. he sent a command to the ship for it to blow up.


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## Darth Niggatron (May 9, 2014)

LolNiku.
That is all.


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## Gallavant (May 9, 2014)

Beam radius: ~20 meters
Beam length: Several thousand km
Cylindrical volume of nuclear material: 3 and a half billion cubic meters

Timeframe: 5 seconds to hit the meteor, but there was an additional 2 to 3 seconds before this image was shown, meaning that the breath travelled further than 1800mi

So that's a mountain of nuclear material being sent at around half a thousand kilometers per second, and the meteor is also moving at a speed similar to the speed of the atomic breath beam, while the beam is pushing against it.

A normal rock should not be able to handle that much thermonuclear material being fired at a ~40 meter sized point without being vaporized instantly

That's why I suggested that the density/durability of the original Gorath meteor could/should be scaled to it, if anyone can figure it out from the gravity (If 6000x Earth gravity increases its density I'm thinking..), and it would increase the yield of the feat, since the denser the material of a moving object, the more kinetic energy it has. Normally a KG sized rock of natural density moving at high multi-hundred kmps speeds would be high island level. Think I had a scaling before that put the meteor speed even over half a thousand km per second.

Both the original Gorath planetoid and the FW version have been called Gorath and both of them move at unnaturally fast speeds and unnaturally high durability, with the original Gorath meteor just being on a massively larger scale size-wise


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## Mr. Black Leg (May 9, 2014)

Turrin said:


> But he's invincible. So at best it would be a draw.



AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA REALLY YOU MADE ME LAUGH .

There are SO MANY FUCKING CHARACTERS that could either kill, incapacitate or literally take out of the things we know as " existence " is so fucking big and you actually think he's going to draw with most of it ?


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## Gallavant (May 9, 2014)

Here's a web page with the temperature of some nukes:



Notice that one of the nukes (granted a small nuke) quickly cooled down from 300,000 after it got to 17 meters

But Godzilla's explosive nuclear energy attack he used on the meteor was billions of cubic meters in volume and mountain sized

It was shown in one of the Millenium movies, *without him even charging up*, that there was *constant* thermonuclear level reactions going on inside Godzilla's body, which means that his beam attacks should be thermonuclear as well.






*Spoiler*: __ 











" By equating radiation losses and the volumetric fusion rates Lawson estimates the minimum temperature for the fusion for the deuteriumtritium reaction to be 30 million degrees (2.6 keV) and for the deuteriumdeuterium reaction to be 150 million degrees (12.9 keV)."

Godzilla's beam should be = millions of nukes, from temperature and mass alone 

Plus his beam lasts longer


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## Bioness (May 9, 2014)

Gallavant, I've seen your blogs, you reposting this isn't helping.


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## Gallavant (May 9, 2014)

Bioness said:


> Gallavant, I've seen your blogs, you reposting this isn't helping.




[YOUTUBE]4fuHzC9aTik[/YOUTUBE]


2:05-2:40

Godzilla's concentrated explosive nuke beam = Multi cubic km volume (mountain size) and lasts much longer than the shitty fraction of a second that a nuke fireball's comparatively tiny center lasts



Bioness said:


> Gallavant, I've seen your blogs, you reposting this isn't helping.



If you saw stuff from me about thermonuclear before, then you must have been lurking MvC


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## Ryo Shiki (May 10, 2014)

konoha summons the shinigami.


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## Gallavant (May 10, 2014)

Ryo Shiki said:


> konoha summons the shinigami.




How are they going to do that after they've all been vaporized?


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## Ryo Shiki (May 10, 2014)

Gallavant said:


> How are they going to do that after they've all been vaporized?



oh, is zilla faster then Minato?


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## Iwandesu (May 10, 2014)

Ryo Shiki said:


> oh, is zilla faster then Minato?


Without Edo feats? Maybe. 
Pain arc had Mach 60-70 nardo which easily Scallable to flashback minato. 
Wasn't zilla just supersonic?  Or does composite has mhs feats?


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## Gallavant (May 10, 2014)

Ryo Shiki said:


> oh, is zilla faster then Minato?





Thermal radiation heat travels at the speed of light, so all he has to do is fire or charge his beam and *everyone*  melts if his breath aoe is unrestricted


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## Chad (May 10, 2014)

Base Minato's shunshin is unquantifiably mach 350+, though that doesn't really help. :kappa


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## Ryo Shiki (May 10, 2014)

Gallavant said:


> Heat travels at the speed of light, so all he has to do is fire or charge his beam and *everyone*  melts if his breath aoe is unrestricted



the blast wont fire untill he reacts so unless hes faster then minato,  the shingami is gettng summoned. 

and what uchihas were around at that point? because i highly doubt zilla has any feats defending against genjutsu.


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## AgentAAA (May 10, 2014)

Ryo Shiki said:


> the blast wont fire untill he reacts so unless hes faster then minato,  the shingami is gettng summoned.
> 
> and what uchihas were around at that point? because i highly doubt zilla has any feats defending against genjutsu.



Last I checked Genjutsu gets broken pretty quickly the moment Godzilla uses nuclear pulse - which he doesn't have to aim, given it's just him exploding.

Also going to point out that Genjutsu, if I recall correctly, requires controlling your opponent's energy with your own. Pretty sure the guy with the constant nuclear explosion going on in his body isn't going to be a quick one to ensnare. 

As for the shinigami, why are we treating him as Hax? He's shown to have clear limits according to his user, especially regarding sealing away beings, and depending on the user's chakra. It's part of why he was used to seal only half of the Kyuubi's chakra, no?
Albeit, I haven't closely followed naruto in a long time now, so feel free to contradict me.


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## Iwandesu (May 11, 2014)

AgentAAA said:


> Last I checked Genjutsu gets broken pretty quickly the moment Godzilla uses nuclear pulse - which he doesn't have to aim, given it's just him exploding.
> 
> Also going to point out that Genjutsu, if I recall correctly, requires controlling your opponent's energy with your own. Pretty sure the guy with the constant nuclear explosion going on in his body isn't going to be a quick one to ensnare.
> 
> ...


Kyuubi was still fully sealed,  only in two different places.
Shinigami is soul fuckery it can only be avoid if you know the counter jutsu, or has soul fuck resistance. It is a hax and beat kyuubi which is teratons and has a nearly infinite amount of chakra (and thus much stronger than iffy megaton and Hokage level chakra minato)


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## Ryo Shiki (May 11, 2014)

AgentAAA said:


> Last I checked Genjutsu gets broken pretty quickly the moment Godzilla uses nuclear pulse - which he doesn't have to aim, given it's just him exploding.
> 
> Also going to point out that Genjutsu, if I recall correctly, requires controlling your opponent's energy with your own. Pretty sure the guy with the constant nuclear explosion going on in his body isn't going to be a quick one to ensnare.
> 
> ...



depending on the genjutsu and the how good  the ninja casting it, it could be a one hit win. Obito, Madara & Sauce have mind control feats, and Kakkashi has put peopleto sleep with a single look. 

in short, too much Hax in Konoha to get taken down by a slower opponent.


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## Iwandesu (May 11, 2014)

Ryo Shiki said:


> depending on the genjutsu and the how good  the ninja casting it, it could be a one hit win. Obito, Madara & Sauce have mind control feats, and Kakkashi has put peopleto sleep with a single look.
> 
> in short, too much Hax in Konoha to get taken down by a slower opponent.


Konoha doesn't have any of them, sharingan genjutsu best feat is to control teraton kyuubi which again proves it works at least as a mind control hax. 
Point being does godzilla has mindfuck resistance feats?  There is no sharingan there,  but Yamanaka mindfuck can be even worst and nara clans can easily stop him for enough time to minato cast Shiki fuuin.


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## LazyWaka (May 11, 2014)

AgentAAA said:


> As for the shinigami, why are we treating him as Hax? He's shown to have clear limits according to his user, *especially regarding sealing away beings,* and depending on the user's chakra. It's part of why he was used to seal only half of the Kyuubi's chakra, no?
> Albeit, I haven't closely followed naruto in a long time now, so feel free to contradict me.



Does he have to seal all of godzilla? Just his soul would probably suffice.

Not saying team Naruto wins.


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## Iwandesu (May 11, 2014)

LazyWaka said:


> Does he have to seal all of godzilla? Just his soul would probably suffice.
> 
> Not saying team Naruto wins.


Exactly,  they need to hit him, but all of this is useless if godzilla attack is indeed ls and has enough yeld to eradicate Konoha.


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## Nighty the Mighty (May 11, 2014)

Gallavant said:


> Heat travels at the speed of light, so all he has to do is fire or charge his beam and *everyone*  melts if his breath aoe is unrestricted



this is a gross misunderstanding of how heat works.


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## Darth Niggatron (May 11, 2014)

Wait, heat travels at LS? News to me.


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## jetwaterluffy1 (May 11, 2014)

Gallavant said:


> Heat travels at the speed of light, so all he has to do is fire or charge his beam and *everyone*  melts if his breath aoe is unrestricted



*sound
**


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## Gallavant (May 11, 2014)

"Thermal Radiation Effects

Approximately 35 percent of the energy from a nuclear explosion is an intense burst of thermal radiation, i.e., heat. The effects are similar to the effect of a two-second flash from an enormous sunlamp. *Since the thermal radiation travels at roughly the speed of light*, the flash of light and heat precedes the blast wave by several seconds, just as lightning is seen before thunder is heard."


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## Velocity (May 11, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> Godzilla then vapes the whole village from orbit. Then he turns his breath away from the planet and propels himself back to it like a rocket.



Godzilla is such a badass.


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## Gallavant (May 11, 2014)

Ryo Shiki said:


> depending on the genjutsu and the how good  the ninja casting it, it could be a one hit win. Obito, Madara & Sauce have mind control feats, and Kakkashi has put peopleto sleep with a single look.
> 
> in short, too much Hax in Konoha to get taken down by a slower opponent.




There are other versions of Godzilla that have adapted to resist psychic mind/thought control

Also, Godzilla doesn't need food, he shouldn't even need to breathe, he's a mutated creature that runs on nuclear radiation, if his radiation gets energy drained he basically temporarily dies as shown when the ANEB bacteria once ate his nuclear energy faster than his reactor heart could produce it. He's not a normal organism

But the second he comes into contact with nuclear radiation again, he comes back to life. Godzilla Junior was once killed by Destoroyah, his dead body absorbed radiation from his dieing father and it revived + grew him to adult size at the end of the movie.

There are monsters in his verse that can live on things like planetary life force energy or solar power, these are multiple types of energy and should not all be equalized with each other, and therefore should not be all equalized with chakra. There doesn't seem to be one single energy for all the monsters, like ki, chi, or chakra, in Godzillaverse. Narutoverse genjutsu users manipulating the chakra flow to someone's brain to create an illusion doesnt mean they can manipulate the nuclear energy powering Godzilla's or the solar energy powering Space Godzilla's. That's like saying a water or ice manipulator can manipulate/create fire and magma.


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## jetwaterluffy1 (May 11, 2014)

Thermal radiation = Radio waves, microwaves, IR, visible light (higher frequencies are ionizing radiation). I assumed you meant convection and/or conduction.


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## Iwandesu (May 11, 2014)

Gallavant said:


> There are other versions of Godzilla that have adapted to resist psychic mind/thought control
> 
> Also, Godzilla doesn't need food, he shouldn't even need to breathe, he's a mutated creature that runs on nuclear radiation, if his radiation gets energy drained he basically temporarily dies as shown when the ANEB bacteria once ate his nuclear energy faster than his reactor heart could produce it. He's not a normal organism
> 
> ...


You must be missing a important point there. 
> any energy is able to generate radiation.(At least heat, nuclear, Electric and magn?tico are)
> both solar, nuclear and heat energy use the same internacional measure system (aka joules)
> ice manipulation is based on heat lose not heat gain. A ice manipulator cannot create fire but can generate the same energy. 
This supposed "nuclear energy" is equalised by equivalency law. There is no point even bringing this up. Equivalence law is used to avoid arguments like "no one can see shinigami nor stands, reiatsu law and nen baptism insta-kill everyone, genjutsu doesn't affect people without chakra,  godzilla can't be killed by energy, haki intangibility is in unbeatble."...


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## Gallavant (May 11, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> This supposed "nuclear energy" is equalised by equivalency law. There is no point even bringing this up. Equivalence law is used to avoid arguments like "no one can see shinigami nor stands, reiatsu law and nen baptism insta-kill everyone, genjutsu doesn't affect people without chakra,  godzilla can't be killed by energy, haki intangibility is in unbeatble."...



What if there are multiple types of energy, and *in-universe they aren't/can't be equalized with each other*, like a monster has nuclear energy and can't/doesn't absorb/manipulate the mana energy from his opponent?



Genjutsu as I understand it is based on manipulating the chakra flow in someone's brain.. If a monster has fucking electricity or solar or maybe water or nuclear instead of chakra how are you supposed to equalize everything?


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## Gallavant (May 11, 2014)

Hey, this doesn't exist, but suppose there was a monster that ran on billions of black holes flowing through his veins instead of blood or spiritual energy but was somehow alive, are you going to say the genjutsu user can make illusions out of black holes and is a black hole manipulator?


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## AgentAAA (May 11, 2014)

Gallavant said:


> What if there are multiple types of energy, and *in-universe they aren't/can't be equalized with each other*, like a monster has nuclear energy and can't/doesn't absorb/manipulate the mana energy from his opponent?
> 
> 
> 
> Genjutsu as I understand it is based on manipulating the chakra flow in someone's brain.. If a monster has fucking electricity or solar or maybe water or nuclear instead of chakra how are you supposed to equalize everything?



To be fair, Godzilla has actually absorbed a lot of energy types himself, including electricity... which begs the question, can he absorb chakra sent at him? It certainly stands to reason...
Also going to point out Nuclear Pulse's AoE is going to take out every non top-tier though, so yamanaka, nara, etc. would likely be taken out.
My point with the kyuubi is only half of it was actually done with the death god's power, while the other half was done with a regular sealing method, against the merely terraton Kyuubi. Last I checked, there's a few recent calculations putting Godzilla's nuclear breath a fair bit above Teratons.


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## Iwandesu (May 11, 2014)

Gallavan506233 if there are multi energy said:
			
		

> in-universe they aren't/can't be equalized with each other[/B], like a monster has nuclear energy and can't absorb/manipulate the mana energy from his opponent?
> 
> 
> 
> Genjutsu as I understand it is based in manipulating the chakra flow in someone's brain.. If a monster has fucking electricity or solar or maybe water or nuclear instead of chakra how are you supposed to equalize everything?


I'm not saying a ice manipulator can manipulate fire.  I'm saying He can output similar power. Can you elaborate this example?
 we do this way to fair this match due to many reasons, But mainly:
> to Avoid debating who has the best nlf ability. 
We don't equalise everything. We disrgard useless advantage which can't be proven nor disproven to works against other verses characters.


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## Gallavant (May 11, 2014)

Ki and Chakra are both sort of spiritual-like types of energy with similar concepts, that just about all of the characters in their verses have so they can be equalized.

You think you can let characters to manipulate nuclear fusion type energy in a character's brain, without them having nuclear manipulation feats like that. Giving them completely different powers, that's just fan-fiction


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## Iwandesu (May 11, 2014)

AgentAAA said:


> To be fair, Godzilla has actually absorbed a lot of energy types himself, including electricity... which begs the question, can he absorb chakra sent at him? It certainly stands to reason...
> Also going to point out Nuclear Pulse's AoE is going to take out every non top-tier though, so yamanaka, nara, etc. would likely be taken out.
> My point with the kyuubi is only half of it was actually done with the death god's power, while the other half was done with a regular sealing method, against the merely terraton Kyuubi. Last I checked, there's a few recent calculations putting Godzilla's nuclear breath a fair bit above Teratons.


Was the zetaton calc accepted? 
Point stands, can he tank the beam?
Btw, it would still take more time for him to shot  than to the Yamanaka stop him.
Also, is his breath a laser or a big aoe attack,  which destroys everything in front of him?
Anyway he wins anytime he manage to breath, and lose if shinigami seal him.


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## Iwandesu (May 11, 2014)

Gallavant said:


> Ki and Chakra are both sort of spiritual-like types of energy with similar concepts so they can be equalized.
> 
> You think you can let characters to manipulate nuclear fusion type/level energy in a character's brain, without them having nuclear manipulation feats.


Only they have.
Chakra generate nuclear energy, heat energy, Electric and most energy you would want to add. 
hell, they even have elements involved.  
Being or not spiritual has no business here.


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## Gallavant (May 11, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> Only they have.
> Chakra generate nuclear energy, heat energy, Electric and most energy you would want to add.
> hell, they even have elements involved.
> Being or not spiritual has no business here.



Is anything manipulated in Nardoverse stated a hundred million degrees?


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## Iwandesu (May 11, 2014)

Gallavant said:


> Is anything manipulated in Nardoverse is stated a hundred million degrees?


Edo Madara really casual katons are millions worthy.
Any megaton attack carry at least 10 millions of degrees and such.
Kyuubi would laughs at sun surface for years before start bothering about it.
Heat energy=/= actual heat
Reason why yamamoto would be shit at current hst before his last showing.


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## Gallavant (May 11, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> Edo Madara really casual katons are millions worthy.
> Any megaton attack carry at least 10 millions of degrees and such.
> Kyuubi would laughs at sun surface for years before start bothering about it.



Fictional characters can get burned by far less than the amount of force they tank you know


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## LineageCold (May 11, 2014)

Gai uses 8 gates & punch Godzilla into a new dimension.


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## Iwandesu (May 11, 2014)

Gallavant said:


> Fictional characters can get burned by far less than the amount of force they tank you know


I'm not willing to start a 5+ pages discussion 3 times in the same years. 
Read this and come back only if you can add further information.


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## YoungChief (May 11, 2014)

Gallavant said:


> Fictional characters can get burned by far less than the amount of force they tank you know



This is true, for example Toriko was having difficulties with "several thousand degree heat", and he's a country level character

Mangaka rarely put as much thought into feats as much as people on the OBD do


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## Iwandesu (May 11, 2014)

YoungChief said:


> This is true, for example Toriko was having difficulties with "several thousand degree heat", and he's a country level character
> 
> Mangaka rarely put as much thought into feats as much as people on the OBD do


So Mangaka/ fiction idiocracy and inconsistency >>>>>> actual calcs and clear answers?


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## Gallavant (May 11, 2014)

Godzilla has nuclear fission as well as nuclear fusion..

Can they manipulate plutonium and uranium?


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## Iwandesu (May 11, 2014)

Gallavant said:


> Godzilla has nuclear fission as well as nuclear fusion..
> 
> Can they manipulate plutonium and uranium?


They don't have to, they can manipulate nuclear energy just fine.
it's like you are saying a fire manipulator can't put fire on another fire manipulator and vice versa, because one use magic fire and the other oxigenium, do you understand how weak this sounds? 
If they can control nuclear energy they can do it, doesn't matter how the energy is made.


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## Gallavant (May 11, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> They don't have to, they can manipulate nuclear energy just fine.
> it's like you are saying a fire manipulator can't put fire on another fire manipulator and vice versa, because one use magic fire and the other oxigenium, do you understand how weak this sounds?
> If they can control nuclear energy they can do it, doesn't matter how the energy is made.



Space Godzilla can control solar energy with attacks at least as strong as Godzilla's own nuclear beam since he damaged Godzilla with it. He is a mutated version of Godzilla that was stated to have absorbed a supernova

Space Godzilla can also manipulate the path of his own beam through the air and make it do loopty loops in order to hit his target after hes fired it

but he never manipulated the path of Godzilla's beam to make it go away like he did with his own beam in order to make it hit, he had to generate a forcefield to block it. 

SG was eventually obliterated by red spiral beam rays after most of his solar crystals were destroyed..

So the type of material used to do it and portrayal does seem to make bit of a difference, at least against Godzilla, actually..


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## jetwaterluffy1 (May 11, 2014)

Before we start going places with this kinetic vs heat stuff, you do realize


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## Gallavant (May 11, 2014)

Since Godzilla has adapted to have immunity to machine amplified psychic mind/thought control before, and the materials used for nuclear reaction creation and how it's portrayed do seem to matter in Godzillaverse, and Nardoverse uses spiritual shitra for everything, it's not looking too good for the genjutsuists..


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## Iwandesu (May 11, 2014)

Gallavant said:


> Space Godzilla can control solar energy with attacks at least as strong as Godzilla's own nuclear beam since he damaged Godzilla with it.
> 
> Space Godzilla can also manipulate the path of his own beam through the air and make it do loopty loops in order to hit his target after hes fired it
> 
> ...


Or he can't control stronger attacks
Or it was plot bullshit
Or you seems to fail to understand the difference between hax(some genjutsu and hijutsus which affect the soul and the mind of the enemy) and actual attacks (like a beam)
Pick one.


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## Gallavant (May 11, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> Or he can't control stronger attacks
> Or it was plot bullshit
> Or you seems to fail to understand the difference between hax(some genjutsu and hijutsus which affect the soul and the mind of the enemy) and actual attacks (like a beam)



Only the spiral rays blasts could be considered stronger, Godzilla in the Heisei continuity has survived his own blue beam rays reflected at him without damage but Space Godzilla wounded him, so the blue ones he didnt manipulate away were actually weaker than Space Godzilla's attacks (but he still put up sort of a forcefield to block them to avoid being hit, instead of manipulating them away).


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## Iwandesu (May 11, 2014)

Gallavant said:


> Since Godzilla* has adapted to have immunity to machine amplified psychic mind/thought* control before, and the materials used for nuclear reaction creation and how it's portrayed do seem to matter in Godzillaverse, and Nardoverse uses spiritual shitra for everything, it's not looking too good for the genjutsuists..


Good enough, this is a resistance feat,  now how strong it was this machine mindfuck?
What is godzilla lifting strength btw? nara clan could stop juubi for an instant. 
Inoichi had enough power to affect the mind of the whole shinobi alliance (roughly 50.000 members) using a special mental helmet as boundary.


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## Iwandesu (May 11, 2014)

Gallavant said:


> Only the spiral rays blasts could be considered stronger, Godzilla in the Heisei continuity has survived his own blue beam rays reflected at him without damage but Space Godzilla wounded him, so the blue ones he didnt manipulate away were actually weaker than Space Godzilla's attacks (but he still put up sort of a forcefield to block them to avoid being hit, instead of manipulating them away).


Let's clarify something,  does space Godzilla ever manipulate anyone beam besides his own? 
Cuz you can't assume he can do it to everybody. 
Is like if i can heal myself, but this doesn't mean i will ever be able to heal someone else.


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## Gallavant (May 11, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> What is godzilla lifting strength btw? nara clan could stop juubi for an instant.
> Inoichi had enough power to affect the mind of the whole shinobi alliance (roughly 50.000 members) using a special mental helmet as boundary.



Godzilla has 2 brains and I'm sure they're at least a few meters in diameter from some diagrams shown in one of the movies, also Godzilla was capable of EDIT: TELEPATHIC communication from long multi kilometer distances with other monsters himself.



Our brain size is 0.00145 cubic meters


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## Iwandesu (May 11, 2014)

Gallavant said:


> Godzilla has 2 brains and I'm sure they're at least a few meters in diameter from some diagrams shown in one of the movies, also Godzilla was capable of EDIT: TELEPATHIC communication from long multi kilometer distances with other monsters himself.
> 
> 
> 
> Our brain size is 0.00145 cubic meters


0.00145 x 50000=57,25 m^3
Are you implying godzilla brain is 60m^3 sized?
The distance that Inoichi crossed was the entire war arc field.
I bet my 20 cents it has thousands of kilometers. Actually has confirmed at least 89.000+ km.


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## Gallavant (May 11, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> What is godzilla lifting strength btw? nara clan could stop juubi for an instant.



Even if they could stop this version of Godzilla from moving:

Godzilla doesn't need to move in order to use nuclear energy, if something's got him pinned down, he uses a nuclear pulse attack (release nuclear energy from his entire body rather than just his mouth, in an omnidirectional fashion)


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## Iwandesu (May 11, 2014)

TwentyFifthNight said:


> Lol.                .


Do you rather frs?  
Lol, leave the butthurt, i not even specifying an energy value. 
Tecnicaly, you can have even large building level attacks outputing this kind of temperature,  using lame results to others values like mass. I was only showing That high degrees aren't that impressive. 
is not like the le 2 digit kiloton for madara isn't applicable even if you don't wanna the 3 digit one.


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## TwentyFifthNight (May 12, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> Do you rather frs?
> Lol, leave the butthurt, i not even specifying an energy value.
> Tecnicaly, you can have even large building level attacks outputing this kind of temperature,  using lame results to others values like mass. I was only showing That high degrees aren't that impressive.
> is not like the le 2 digit kiloton for madara isn't applicable even if you don't wanna the 3 digit one.



Ahh yes, this is clearly worth millions of degrees of heat. 




*Spoiler*: __ 








Anyways, the calc itself buttfucks your argument.


> looks like the Oxyhydrogen fire + i doubt it will be less than that also it's much hotter than the other katon jutsu who was already 1,200 C so i'll be using *2000 C*


2000 degrees celcius.
That's a fucking farcry from millions of degrees of temp.


The calc is bogus btw.  (aside from the fact that the heat temp is manipulated)


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## War With Words (May 12, 2014)

Godzilla stomps with atomic breath and nuclear pulse. They won't get a chance to do anything before they all die.


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## Gallavant (May 12, 2014)

-base mode FW Godzilla beam speed: Between Mach 1500 and Mach 2000, because it can go this far in less than 5 seconds:


Temperature DC calc for the beam here: 

- FW Godzilla can have a beam fight with the first form of Kaiser Ghidorah, Monster X, who seems to have a beam around the same level of power


*Spoiler*: __ 









- Kaiser Ghidorah, the second form, can react to/shoot at Godzilla's beam after it's been fired and overpower Godzilla's beam ray



-Kaiser powered Godzilla can fodderize Kaiser Ghidorah, by first casually reducing Kaiser Ghidorah's middle head to a cloud of dust with a blue beam before he could fire, the same face was previously able to tank base Godzilla's blue beam in it's first form, and then obliterating the rest of his entire body in 1 shot with an even stronger beam, known as the red spiral ray:

[YOUTUBE]9odxylopqWM[/YOUTUBE]


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## Iwandesu (May 12, 2014)

Gallavant said:


> [sp]-base mode FW Godzilla beam speed: Between Mach 1500 and Mach 2000, because it can go this far in less than 5 seconds:
> 
> 
> Temperature DC calc for the beam here:
> ...


Fair enough. He wins due to speed beam advantage and dc.


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## AgentAAA (May 12, 2014)

Going to point out that controlling a body that doesn't work at all like a regular body - in that, if I'm not correct, Godzilla runs closer to a motor in that his body's constantly doing fusion and exploding - wouldn't that make it harder to control his energy stably with genjutsu?

Going to point out overpowering the energy by releasing a nuclear pulse might be capable of counteracting the genjutsu too, since if I recall using energy to overpower and disrupt the genjutsu's flow is a way to counter it.

Nuclear pulse would actually be the quickest and easiest way to wipe out nara fodders, as well - it's not a body movement, it's just releasing nuclear energy, and to my knowledge no Nara has the Durability to tank it.


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## Iwandesu (May 12, 2014)

AgentAAA said:


> Going to point out that controlling a body that doesn't work at all like a regular body - in that, if I'm not correct, Godzilla runs closer to a motor in that his body's constantly doing fusion and exploding - wouldn't that make it harder to control his energy stably with genjutsu?
> 
> Going to point out overpowering the energy by releasing a nuclear pulse might be capable of counteracting the genjutsu too, since if I recall using energy to overpower and disrupt the genjutsu's flow is a way to counter it.
> 
> Nuclear pulse would actually be the quickest and easiest way to wipe out nara fodders, as well - it's not a body movement, it's just releasing nuclear energy, and to my knowledge no Nara has the Durability to tank it.


>he is a living being, but could eventually work as unseal. 
>he would eventually keep free from it even without it,  the goal is stop him enough time to minato do shinigami seal
> Yep
Godzilla wins this at least 19/20 times


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## AgentAAA (May 12, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> >he is a living being, but could eventually work as unseal.
> >he would eventually keep free from it even without it,  the goal is stop him enough time to minato do shinigami seal
> > Yep
> Godzilla wins this at least 19/20 times



He is a living being, but has a bodily system that functions like literally no other living being given his biology works like a motor more than it does the average carbon-based life-form.
Ignoring that, given we're onto energy equalization - he's been shown to be able to absorb different kinds of energy, including electrical. Would Chakra potentially be capable of being on that menu?


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## Iwandesu (May 12, 2014)

AgentAAA said:


> He is a living being, but has a bodily system that functions like literally no other living being given his biology works like a motor more than it does the average carbon-based life-form.
> Ignoring that, given we're onto energy equalization - he's been shown to be able to absorb different kinds of energy, including electrical. Would Chakra potentially be capable of being on that menu?


Actually is possible for him to at least absorb what energy in the level he was showed to absorb,  I'm not the one to you discuss this, though.  Nonetheless,  genjutsu and some hijutsus don't work as normal Chakra explosions. As they disgards durability to some extent.


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## Gallavant (May 12, 2014)

AgentAAA said:


> He is a living being, but has a bodily system that functions like literally no other living being given his biology works like a motor more than it does the average carbon-based life-form.
> Ignoring that, given we're onto energy equalization - he's been shown to be able to absorb different kinds of energy, including electrical. Would Chakra potentially be capable of being on that menu?



The undead GMK Godzilla absorbed sort of spiritual and electrical type energy from GMK version Ghidora's beam attacks, then sent it back at him along with his own atomic beam. He obliterated Ghidorah's body, and then ate/absorbed his soul, along with the two other souls of the other guardian monsters that were inside Ghidorah's body.

However, this isn't the GMK version (nick named Oni Godzilla) being used here (which physically resurrects from basically nothing btw)..


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