# Akainu vs Kaido



## Delta Shell (May 5, 2022)

Which hotboy wins?

Reactions: Funny 3


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

lava > fire is canon
permanently changing weather of a large island > melting part of a horn

I have spoken

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 8 | Winner 4 | Tier Specialist 1


----------



## KBD (May 5, 2022)

Azure fire > magma is canon

permanently destroying a horn in a millisecond > changing a climate over three days 

I have shitposted

Reactions: Funny 17 | Winner 1


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

Kaido of course...

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 2


----------



## Sablés (May 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> permanently changing weather of a large island


Kaido would literally melt PH and he won't need 10 days of fighting off-panel to do it.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 3 | Winner 1


----------



## Godammit (May 5, 2022)

KBD said:


> Azure fire > magma is canon
> 
> permanently destroying a horn in a millisecond > changing a climate over three days
> 
> I have shitposted


Aokiji lost a leg in 10 days fighting a magma man and hes made of ice lol

Reactions: Funny 6 | Disagree 1


----------



## ShadoLord (May 5, 2022)

Sakazuki gives him the donut treatment  

how dare the little snake tries to play with fire in his presence

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 3 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Kaido would literally melt PH


He didnt even leave a scar on Luffys hand this chapter
unlike Akainu who did so with a glancing blow meant for Jinbei

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

Kaidou’s strongest move is getting to Akainu’s basic level of Heat. Pretty sure it’s obvious to everyone besides the Stans that this hypes Akainu not the other way around

Reactions: Like 4 | Funny 3 | Tier Specialist 9 | Dislike 2


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> He didnt even leave a scar on Luffys hand this chapter
> unlike Akainu who did so with a glancing blow meant for Jinbei


God Luffy and pre ts fodder Luffy   bruh, talk to the AW community and tell them to find another representant

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 5


----------



## KBD (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Kaidou’s strongest move is getting to Akainu’s basic level of Heat. Pretty sure it’s obvious to everyone besides the Stans that this hypes Akainu not the other way around


nah he is going down to Sabo


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> *Kaidou’s strongest move is getting to Akainu’s basic level of Heat*. Pretty sure it’s obvious to everyone besides the Stans that this hypes Akainu not the other way around


what a disgusting AW

Reactions: Funny 2 | Tier Specialist 1


----------



## Sablés (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> King’s strongest move is getting to Akainu’s level of Heat


Ftfy.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 1 | GODA 1


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

>Oda made Kaidos Ultimate a heat based attack .. but its mere fire
>Akainu is the GOD of heat in the verse and uses the superior lava

Reactions: Agree 3


----------



## JustSumGuy (May 5, 2022)

Lol I love how we go back to this question with every passing chapter.

Sakazuki still takes it

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 1


----------



## Dark Knight (May 5, 2022)

The answer is Kaido, be it in the past present, and future for that matter. Until Sakazuki displays adv. CoC he has no business being compared to the WSC.

Reactions: Like 6 | Agree 3 | Winner 1


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

JustSumGuy said:


> Lol I love how we go back to this question with every passing chapter.


we always go back to Akainu in the end .. even in this yonkou saga


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> >Oda made Kaidos Ultimate a heat based attack .. but its mere fire
> >Akainu is the GOD of heat in the verse and uses the superior lava


Akainu is sh*t. He needs 10 days for half an island. Kaido can do that with a sh*t.
Sabo will deal with him. Luffy has more serious issues to deal with

Reactions: Like 2 | Tier Specialist 1


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> Akainu is sh*t. He needs 10 days for half an island. Kaido can do that with a sh*t.
> Sabo will deal with him. Luffy has more serious issues to deal with


he needed 10 days to beat another top-tier, a near equal. Something that Kaido has never done so far (beat a top-tier in a clean 1v1)

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Hdw (May 5, 2022)

Kaido wins based on feats and portrayal, just like every other week this is made

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2


----------



## ShadoLord (May 5, 2022)

Dark Knight said:


> The answer is Kaido, be it in the past present, and future for that matter. Until Sakazuki displays adv. CoC he has no business being compared to the WSC.


Can we agree on Zoro shitting on Haki nubs Law and Kid?


----------



## lightcrowler (May 5, 2022)

Kaido obviously.
He created an island sized magma dragon in an instant, after having fought a gauntlet of yc3 to yc1 to a literal God (and still fighting that God).

Reactions: Like 5


----------



## ShadoLord (May 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> he needed 10 days to beat another top-tier, a near equal. Something that Kaido has never done so far (beat a top-tier in a clean 1v1)


Gotta remember Kaido almost lost his life after jumping on Oden with his whole gang

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)




----------



## Piecesis (May 5, 2022)

We gotta have this every week huh? With the poll results always ending the same.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 4


----------



## Sablés (May 5, 2022)

Piecesis said:


> We gotta have this every week huh? With the poll results always ending the same.


If anything the gap keeps getting wider each time.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> this hypes Akainu not the other way around


how come even Turrin gets it, but you dont ?

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> he needed 10 days to beat another top-tier, a near equal. Something that Kaido has never done so far (beat a top-tier in a clean 1v1)


he still needed 10 days to do something effortless for Kaido   even his bosses know there is no place for him in a discussion involving God and Kaido

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Sablés (May 5, 2022)

Akainubros, the 25%...


----------



## TheWiggian (May 5, 2022)

Kaido ran from Ace, Ace ran from Sakazuki. Outcome here is clear

Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 2


----------



## Grinningfox (May 5, 2022)

Thread hasn’t even been open for 20 mins and is already jumping

Admirals v Yonkou is so toxic

Reactions: Funny 5


----------



## KBD (May 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> how come even Turrin gets it, but you dont ?


you are just on the blueno side of OL history

Reactions: Funny 6 | Winner 1


----------



## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

KBD said:


> nah he is going down to Sabo


I mean if you think that bruv I can’t help you.


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> how come even Turrin gets it, but you dont ?


Turrin's a fanboy probably as big as you are. This is just the two of you licking each other's wounds.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Tier Specialist 1


----------



## Fujitora (May 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> he needed 10 days to beat another top-tier, a near equal. Something that Kaido has never done so far (beat a top-tier in a clean 1v1)


Man is beating a top tier that needed help.


----------



## Dark Knight (May 5, 2022)

ShadoLord said:


> Can we agree on Zoro shitting on Haki nubs Law and Kid?


Law has too much haxx going for him to give them the edge. Kidd on the other hand


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> he needed 10 days to do something Kaido hasnt done in his entire life


fixed for you

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


----------



## Fujitora (May 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> how come even Turrin gets it, but you dont ?


Turrin is heavily biased against Kaido, nothing he says matters.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

~Flow~ said:


> Turrin is heavily biased


ironic

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Eustathios (May 5, 2022)

Extreme diff for the fish.


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> fixed for you


you poor soul, I'll take this as a concession  now go back and help Turrin in this desperate situation where your boy barely gets above 25%


----------



## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> Turrin's a fanboy probably as big as you are. This is just the two of you licking each other's wounds.


I’m not a fan of Akainu. I think he sucks. I’m just not ignorant to where the plot is headed unlike yourself. This clash is obviously there so that when Luffy fights Akainu, he can be like “No way hotter then even Kaidou”, it’s typical manga bullshit

Reactions: Funny 4 | Informative 1


----------



## The crazy hacker (May 5, 2022)

Every single chapter we realise what would have happened if Akainu fought a fresh WB.

Kaido high diff.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Hdw (May 5, 2022)

Sablés said:


> If anything the gap keeps getting wider each time.


Will Akainu get to 30% this time ?

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> Extreme diff for the fish.


if my boy here said it...what more proof does the AW community need ?


----------



## Fujitora (May 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> ironic


I might be biased but not heavily so, when I say Kaido wins against Akainu its extreme diff. Can you say the same from your sides POV?


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

Hdw said:


> Will Akainu get to 30% this time ?


it'd be shameful, but it depends on how active the AW community is, although in the last poll, they gave their last drop of blood and it still wasn't enough to get 25 iirc.


----------



## Fujitora (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> I’m not a fan of Akainu. I think he sucks. I’m just not ignorant to where the plot is headed unlike yourself. This clash is obviously there so that when Luffy fights Akainu, he can be like “No way hotter then even Kaidou”, it’s typical manga bullshit


This power is just 1 part of the multitude of powers Kaido has and here we are comparing this one thing to Akainu instead of the whole package vs the whole package.

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## Eustathios (May 5, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> if my boy here said it...what more proof does the AW community need ?


I've always said Kaido is the current strongest.

Well, except when I've had some free time to play around with Yonko bros


----------



## Delta Shell (May 5, 2022)

~Flow~ said:


> This power is just 1 part of the multitude of powers Kaido has and here we are comparing this one thing to Akainu instead of the whole package vs the whole package.


Good point


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

number of top-tiers Akainu has beaten = 1 (2 if you count taking off half of WBs skull)
number of top-tiers Kaido has beaten = 0

number of years Akainu needs to find One Piece = 1 at most as per canon
number of years Kaido needs to find One Piece = over 20 and counting

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 3 | Tier Specialist 3


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> *I’m not a fan of Akainu. I think he sucks*. I’m just not ignorant to where the plot is headed unlike yourself. This clash is obviously there so that when Luffy fights Akainu, he can be like “No way hotter then even Kaidou”, it’s typical manga bullshit



  
"We're not invading Ukraine !"

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Dark Knight (May 5, 2022)

I really love the consistency of the poll results week in and week out. Landslide as usual in favor of the WSC. Keep it up OL.


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> I've always said Kaido is the current strongest.
> 
> *Well, except when I've had some free time to play around with Yonko bros *


nice attempt


----------



## Sablés (May 5, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> I've always said Kaido is the current strongest.
> 
> Well, except when I've had some free time to play around with Yonko bros


All top-tier swordsmen > Garp


----------



## TheWiggian (May 5, 2022)

Entertaining the idea of OL polls meaning something

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> "We're not invading Ukraine !"


And we’re not all in denial of the narrative intent of the story


----------



## Piecesis (May 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> number of top-tiers Akainu has beaten = 1 (2 if you count taking off half of WBs skull)
> number of top-tiers Kaido has beaten = 0
> 
> number of years Akainu needs to find One Piece = 1 at most as per canon
> number of years Kaido needs to find One Piece = over 20 and counting


If Kaido was MC he'd need 2 days to find OP, unlike 1 year Akainu


----------



## Sablés (May 5, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> Entertaining the idea of OL polls meaning something


They make niggas mad. That's all the worth they need.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Eustathios (May 5, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> nice attempt


Hm, I don't think I've said anyone currently is stronger. Only voted for Akainu in the last poll.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## KBD (May 5, 2022)

entertaining the idea that the opinion of the following: Shiba, Wiggian and Turrin means anything

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 4


----------



## Eustathios (May 5, 2022)

Sablés said:


> All top-tier swordsmen > Garp

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> Entertaining the idea of OL polls meaning something


ooooh, the big daddy of the AW community out to defend the last drop of dignity the group has.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## TheWiggian (May 5, 2022)

Piecesis said:


> If Kaido was MC he'd need 2 days to find OP, unlike 1 year Akainu



He'd need 363 days to beat Big Mom first

Reactions: Funny 3 | Winner 1


----------



## Piecesis (May 5, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> He'd need 363 days to beat Big Mom first


BM would manage a way to beat herself. As per the canon tells us


----------



## ShadoLord (May 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> number of top-tiers Akainu has beaten = 1 (2 if you count taking off half of WBs skull)
> number of top-tiers Kaido has beaten = 0
> 
> number of years Akainu needs to find One Piece = 1 at most as per canon
> number of years Kaido needs to find One Piece = over 20 and counting


This is the truth.


----------



## TheWiggian (May 5, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> ooooh, the big daddy of the AW community out to defend the last drop of dignity the group has.



Oh the obvious troll who has a big mouth during the climax of the current antagonist


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

Piecesis said:


> Kaido need 2 days to find OP


now if you only can get Oda to go on record and state that in SBS .

of course, that contradicts the manga wher he hasnt found anything

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> *Hm, I don't think I've said anyone currently is stronger. Only voted for Akainu in the last poll.*


----------



## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

~Flow~ said:


> This power is just 1 part of the multitude of powers Kaido has and here we are comparing this one thing to Akainu instead of the whole package vs the whole package.


Not really I have said many times Kaidou is the most resilient in the verse (besides maybe Luffy by the end of the arc). Kaidou and Akainu are simply two sides of the same coin; Kaidou is the greatest shield and Akainu is the greatest sword.

Teach and Luffy will end up being both by the end


----------



## Piecesis (May 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> now if you only you can get Oda to go on record and state that in SBS .
> 
> of course, that contradicts the manga wher he hasnt found anything


I am Oda.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Informative 1


----------



## Eustathios (May 5, 2022)

The state of the OL is more and more a reflection of the state of the series. Just as we're running in circles in Wano, the same is true with these weekly threads

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> Oh the obvious troll who has a big mouth during the climax of the current antagonist


I've had this big mouth for years 
Not a big mouth on an empty stomach though, unlike you


----------



## YellowCosmos (May 5, 2022)

Like a lot of people I suspect that Akainu will turn out to be stronger than Kaido, but right now, it's Kaido until Akainu gets updated feats. Kaido has gotten multiple fights in this arc which focused to different degrees on practically everything in his arsenal. Akainu, on the other hand, has an off-screen fight with Aokiji and feats in MF from a time when Oda hadn't figured out how he was gonna depict haki post-TS. Can't exactly say much about Akainu here.

That said, Kaido's move is interesting in their match-up for two reasons.
First, he obviously has resistance to extreme heat. How he comes to have that resistance is a question that needs to be answered, since, iirc, he was hurt by Boro Breath - which I take to be less hot - before, including when Raizo turned it against him. He may be doing it with haki or something, but either way it's good to have against Akainu.
Second, the fact that Kaido's ultimate move (if it is his ultimate move) is a heat-based attack (which is unikely to be as hot as Akainu in general) means his ultimate attack isn't exactly helpful in his fight against Akainu.


----------



## Dellinger (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Not really I have said many times Kaidou is the most resilient in the verse (besides maybe Luffy by the end of the arc). Kaidou and Akainu are simply two sides of the same coin; Kaidou is the greatest shield and Akainu is the greatest sword.
> 
> Teach and Luffy will end up being both by the end


Except Kaidos attack power has been far better. Unless you think Akainu has shown better stuff than splitting the skies, carrying an entire island, creating a island sized fire dragon etc


----------



## JustSumGuy (May 5, 2022)

This thread jumping.

Of course a thread with Akainu brings in the numbers.


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> The state of the OL is more and more of a reflection of the state of the series. Just as well we're running in circles in Wano, the same is true with these weekly threads


Yeah, though seeing a side of the admiral vs yonko debate get demolished again, and again, and again, and again and seeing the other side having their win confirmed is both sweet and fun.


----------



## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

KBD said:


> entertaining the idea that the opinion of the following: Shiba, Wiggian and Turrin means anything


I mean dude you guys are out here arguing Sabo is for sure going to beat Akainu; that automatically makes your opinion not worth anyones time, as it starkly denies narrative intent and manga troupes. So it’s kind of hard to take anything you say about me as a serious critique and not just you being mad that I’m following the narrative more closely then yourself and not as concerned with Chad Big Boy Kaidou remaining top of the food chain.

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

JustSumGuy said:


> Of course a thread with Akainu brings in the numbers.


Akainu mogging Kaido in popularity in his own arc

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## The crazy hacker (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> I mean dude you guys are out here arguing Sabo is for sure going to beat Akainu; that automatically makes your opinion not worth anyones time, as it starkly denies narrative intent and manga troupes. So it’s kind of hard to take anything you say about me as a serious critique and not just you being mad that I’m following the narrative more closely then yourself and not as concerned with Chad Big Boy Kaidou remaining top of the food chain.


Some people think that Akainu can give EoS Luffy extreme diff. Which is an even more extreme narrative


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

YellowCosmos said:


> Like* a lot of people *I suspect that Akainu will turn out to be stronger than Kaido, but right now, it's Kaido until Akainu gets updated feats. Kaido has gotten multiple fights in this arc which focused to different degrees on practically everything in his arsenal. Akainu, on the other hand, has an off-screen fight with Aokiji and feats in MF from a time when Oda hadn't figured out how he was gonna depict haki post-TS. Can't exactly say much about Akainu here.
> 
> That said, Kaido's move is interesting in their match-up for two reasons.
> First, he obviously has resistance to extreme heat. How he comes to have that resistance is a question that needs to be answered, since, iirc, he was hurt by Boro Breath - which I take to be less hot - before, including when Raizo turned it against him. He may be doing it with haki or something, but either way it's good to have against Akainu.
> Second, the fact that Kaido's ultimate move (if it is his ultimate move) is a heat-based attack (which is unikely to be as hot as Akainu in general) means his ultimate attack isn't exactly helpful in his fight against Akainu.


literally at best 10-15% of the section believe this

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Piecesis (May 5, 2022)

You know Akainu is such a good character when he's always brought up, but then again, the tears of Sadmirals also is a reason why he's brought up so much.


----------



## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

Dellinger said:


> Except Kaidos attack power has been far better. Unless you think Akainu has shown better stuff than splitting the skies, carrying an entire island, creating a island sized fire dragon etc


Akainu hasn’t had his final fight of the series, so the two aren’t comparable on this basis. The only way to compare is what stated about their attack potency and the implications of their narrative placement in the story


----------



## TheWiggian (May 5, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> I've had this big mouth for years
> Not a big mouth on an empty stomach though, unlike you



Nah you were a little fence sitter prior to Wano 



Piecesis said:


> BM would manage a way to beat herself. As per the canon tells us



Didn't seem to happen in their duel and Oda's opinion on that matter is also clear.


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

Piecesis said:


> You know Akainu is such a good character when he's always brought up, but then again, *the tears of Sadmirals also is a reason why he's brought up so much.*


this is why he's brought up. It's the tears. Otherwise, a good deal of the people here like his cap more than his character.


----------



## Fujitora (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Not really I have said many times Kaidou is the most resilient in the verse (besides maybe Luffy by the end of the arc). Kaidou and Akainu are simply two sides of the same coin; Kaidou is the greatest shield and Akainu is the greatest sword.
> 
> Teach and Luffy will end up being both by the end


Kaido's shown the highest levels of Haki mastery and DF mastery so far in addition to his resilient body, and now he has extreme lethality too. He's not just a tank, he packs a punch too and a mean one at that. He just blocked an Island sized attack lmfao.


----------



## Piecesis (May 5, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> Nah you were a little fence sitter prior to Wano
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't seem to happen in their duel and Oda's opinion on that matter is also clear.


Kaido > Zoro > King > Big mom.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## ShadoLord (May 5, 2022)

Dellinger said:


> Except Kaidos attack power has been far better. Unless you think Akainu has shown better stuff than splitting the skies, carrying an entire island, creating a island sized fire dragon etc


Is that why the scabbards can afford running around and wasting tons of panels for the past year?

Reactions: Funny 4


----------



## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

The crazy hacker said:


> Some people think that Akainu can give EoS Luffy extreme diff. Which is an even more extreme narrative


Akainu is one of the major remaining villains. Do I think he gives EoS Luffy Extreme diff; no I don’t as I think Teach will be the FV, but Akainu being able to push EoS Luffy to Higher diff then Kaidou can is for sure more reasonable on the basis of his narrative placement as a successive arc villain in the story.


----------



## TheWiggian (May 5, 2022)

Piecesis said:


> Kaido > Zoro > King > Big mom > Apo > Luffy.

Reactions: Informative 1


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

Dellinger said:


> Except Kaidos attack power has been far better.


tell that to Kinemon


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 5, 2022)

So, the war has begun ...


----------



## YellowCosmos (May 5, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> literally at best 10-15% of the section believe this



A suspicion isn't a belief...


----------



## The crazy hacker (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Akainu is one of the major remaining villains. Do I think he gives EoS Luffy Extreme diff; no I don’t as I think Teach will be the FV, but Akainu being able to push EoS Luffy to Higher diff then Kaidou can is for sure more reasonable on the basis of his narrative placement as a successive arc villain in the story.


The narrative idea can mean that Blackbeard and Imu > Kaido. The admirals don't have to be the main saga antagonist.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


----------



## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

~Flow~ said:


> Kaido's shown the highest levels of Haki mastery and DF mastery so far in addition to his resilient body, and now he has extreme lethality too. He's not just a tank, he packs a punch too and a mean one at that. He just blocked an Island sized attack lmfao.


No one said he is just a tank. But his strongest attribute is that off a Tank.

For example it’s like he’s A+ in all other Areas and S+ in being a Tank. Akainu will also probably be A+ in all other areas and S+ in offense.
—-
I simply don’t consider blocking Island Size Attacks to what the Pinnacle of offensive might is going to look like in One Piece, but I’m being told by statements so far Akainu is at that level, so I have to place him above Kaidou until shown otherwise in AP

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Dellinger (May 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> tell that to Kinemon


Akainu didn’t even finish off Ivankov and Inazuma. Your point ?

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 5, 2022)

Ratio, also how did I so easily predict 4 out of the 5 voters here


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

Dellinger said:


> Akainu didn’t even finish off Ivankov and Inazuma. Your point ?


Akainu was after WB pirates/Luffy, anyone else was just collateral in his way

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Dellinger (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Akainu hasn’t had his final fight of the series, so the two aren’t comparable on this basis. The only way to compare is what stated about their attack potency and the implications of their narrative placement in the story


Except as I’ve repeatedly told you, OP isn’t Naruto. Oda established the sky splitting as a top tier feat in chapter 434. Were in chapter 1048 and it’s still a top tier feat that only the strongest achieve

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 2 | GODA 1


----------



## Fujitora (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> No one said he is just a tank. But his strongest attribute is that off a Tank.
> 
> For example it’s like he’s A+ in all other Areas and S+ in being a Tank. Akainu will also probably be A+ in all other areas and S+ in offense.
> —-
> I simply don’t consider blocking Island Size Attacks to what the *Pinnacle of offensive might is going to look like in One Piece, but I’m being told by statements so far Akainu is at that level, so I have to place him above Kaidou until shown otherwise in AP*


I dont get it.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

OL would rather talk about Akainu after a new chapter

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Fujitora (May 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Akainu was after WB pirates/Luffy, anyone else was just collateral in his way


And he only managed to murk Curiel lol.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 5, 2022)

~Flow~ said:


> I dont get it.


Don't even bother, he claims that MF WB was planetary level

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

~Flow~ said:


> And he only managed to murk Curiel lol.


Law had to operate to save the lives of Luffy and Jinbei


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

Alright y'all, let's close the thread cause as you can see a certain individual can't handle it


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

~Flow~ said:


> And he only managed to murk Curiel lol.


but even that is much better than Kaidos body count in Onigashima

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Fujitora (May 5, 2022)

ShadoLord said:


> Is that why the scabbards can afford running around and wasting tons of panels for the past year?


5 trillion Akainus rage fisting Kinemon on the clock wouldnt stop him from still moving around if the plot wills it.


----------



## KBD (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> I mean dude you guys are out here arguing Sabo is for sure going to beat Akainu; that automatically makes your opinion not worth anyones time, as it starkly denies narrative intent and manga troupes. So it’s kind of hard to take anything you say about me as a serious critique and not just you being mad that I’m following the narrative more closely then yourself and not as concerned with Chad Big Boy Kaidou remaining top of the food chain.


Weren't you just out there telling everyone how snakeman Luffy would have beaten Kaido? 



You can straight blow it out your ass, Blueno.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 4


----------



## Fujitora (May 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> but even that is much better than Kaidos body count in Onigashima


Kaido dropped many, they just kept getting back up.


I cant believe grown men dont know what plot importance is, Curiel had no plot importance. Ace and WB were meant to die therefore Akainu could show off.  The SHs still have plot importance this arc therefore even them staying down is impossible, the same can be said for the scabbards. 

But y'all just don't understand that and compare the incomparable.


----------



## TheWiggian (May 5, 2022)

What Kaido gets the Blueno treatment in ID?

Wtf


----------



## The crazy hacker (May 5, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> What Kaido gets the Blueno treatment in ID?
> 
> Wtf


Kaido is not getting blueno'd can u guys stop with the underestimation?


----------



## Fujitora (May 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Law had to operate to save the lives of Luffy and Jinbei


Oh please, Bepos spit would saved Luffy and Jinbei. Imagine falling for that nonsense and forgetting who the MC is.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


----------



## TheWiggian (May 5, 2022)

The crazy hacker said:


> Kaido is not getting blueno'd can u guys stop with the underestimation?



Wtf that's what I am saying... He at least deserves the Jabura treatment.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Dellinger (May 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Akainu was after WB pirates/Luffy, anyone else was just collateral in his way


And Kaido was after Momo. Your point again ?


----------



## Piecesis (May 5, 2022)

~Flow~ said:


> Oh please, Bepos spit would saved Luffy and Jinbei. Imagine falling for that nonsense and forgetting who the MC is.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

~Flow~ said:


> Oh please, Bepos spit would saved Luffy and Jinbei. Imagine falling for that nonsense and forgetting who the MC is.


I think you've been reading Two Piece  

after Akainu - you lose half your head /get a big scar / need operation from the best surgeon in the world
after Kaido - just walk it off lol

Reactions: Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


----------



## Fujitora (May 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> I think you've been reading Two Piece
> 
> after Akainu - you lose half your head /get a big scar / need operation from the best surgeon in the world


You lose half your head( because you are meant to die this arc), get a big scar( non lethal and carries significance/grudge for later), need operation( congratulations on almost killing ( even though not really) the unkillable MC that will heal up and continue his story anyways)


Shiba D. Inu said:


> after Kaido - just walk it off lol


Yeah you dont know what plot importance is, did the CP-0 guy walk it off? No, because his job this arc is done.


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> I think you've been reading Two Piece
> 
> after Akainu - you lose half your head /get a big scar / need operation from the best surgeon in the world
> after Kaido - just walk it off lol


Kaido literally killed him

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


----------



## Piecesis (May 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> I think you've been reading Two Piece
> 
> after Akainu - you lose half your head /get a big scar / need operation from the best surgeon in the world
> after Kaido - just walk it off lol


Jinbei stopped akainu's magma and he's clean no scar


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

Piecesis said:


> Jinbei stopped akainu's magma and he's clean no scar


scar is on Luffy
Akainus fist went through Jinbei and Law had to operate


----------



## Piecesis (May 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> scar is on Luffy
> Akainus fist went through Jinbei and Law had to operate


Then where is Jinbei's scar if it went through him.


----------



## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

Dellinger said:


> Except as I’ve repeatedly told you, OP isn’t Naruto. Oda established the sky splitting as a top tier feat in chapter 434. Were in chapter 1048 and it’s still a top tier feat that only the strongest achieve


The thing that Luffy and Kaidou surpassed in AP like 10 clashes ago is top tier still, huh.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

~Flow~ said:


> You lose half your head( because you are meant to die this arc), get a big scar( non lethal and carries significance/grudge for later), need operation( congratulations on almost killing ( even though not really) the unkillable MC that will heal up and continue his story anyways)
> 
> Yeah you dont know what plot importance is, did the CP-0 guy walk it off? No, because his job this arc is done.


so basically ..  "doesnt count!" 




> , did the CP-0 guy walk it off?



show me his dead body


----------



## Pyriz (May 5, 2022)

I don't think Akainu could beat any of the Yonko tbh.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 2


----------



## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

~Flow~ said:


> I dont get it.


What don’t you get


----------



## Dellinger (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> The thing that Luffy and Kaidou surpassed in AP like 10 clashes ago is top tier still, huh.


Show me something better than sky splitting


----------



## Sablés (May 5, 2022)

Pyriz said:


> I don't think Akainu could beat any of the Yonko tbh.


Akainu can definitely beat Mom.

Reactions: Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


----------



## Kamisori (May 5, 2022)

~Flow~ said:


> You lose half your head( because you are meant to die this arc), get a big scar( non lethal and carries significance/grudge for later), need operation( congratulations on almost killing ( even though not really) the unkillable MC that will heal up and continue his story anyways)


Yeah let's just discredit everything Akainu has done and say it was plot. Way easier than just admitting that Akainu is a important and strong character.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Piecesis (May 5, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Akainu can definitely beat Mom.


I mean....king beat mom, it shouldn't be too hard.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 1


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

Kamisori said:


> Yeah let's just discredit everything Akainu has done and say it was plot. Way easier than just admitting that Akainu is a important and strong character.


Most of what he's done is shit for current OP ( meaning God and Kaido ) with all due respect

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Fujitora (May 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> so basically ..  "doesnt count!"


Yeah, just like Kaido killing Luffy and him coming back to life doesnt really count.


Shiba D. Inu said:


> show me his dead body





Kamisori said:


> Yeah let's just discredit everything Akainu has done and say it was plot. Way easier than just admitting that Akainu is a important and strong character.


Im not discrediting anything he did, Im saying you cant compare two different situation to acertain the power/offense of someone because of different plot cirumstances.


----------



## Fujitora (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> What don’t you get


You said Kaido blocked an Island sized attack and Akainus offense is island sized therfore Akainu> Kaido.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

~Flow~ said:


> Yeah, just like Kaido killing Luffy


Kaido + Bowlerhat*

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


----------



## truedetectiveseason2intro (May 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Akainu mogging Kaido in popularity in his own arc


You’re not allowed to say mogging there’s no way you go to the gym


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

~Flow~ said:


> You said Kaido blocked an Island sized attack and Akainus offense is island sized therfore Akainu> Kaido.


The guy literally ignores the fact that if the punch is island sized, the effect is  >>>>>>>>>>>>> given what a no adcoc room sized kkg did.


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Kaido + Bowlerhat*


----------



## Typhon (May 5, 2022)

Delta Shell said:


> Which hotboy wins?


You just had to start it...






Akainu wins obviously

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Fujitora (May 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Kaido + Bowlerhat*


Now I know you're arguing in bad faith.


----------



## akainuDragonFan (May 5, 2022)

In a fight? Kaido
If we're talking purely who's heat power is greater its probably Akainu

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> You’re not allowed to say mogging there’s no way you go to the gym


He probably does, there are lots of fit men there for him to catch a glimpse of.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

Akainu has more posts than the rest of the threads combined


----------



## rext1 (May 5, 2022)

Kaidos strongest Fire Dragon form is confirmed inferior to Magu Magu.

*Pinnacle of DF attack powers and superior to any flame.*

Wakazuki Hype!!! Also EOS Sabo hype since Awakened Mera should be the strongest fire power.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

rext1 said:


> Kaidos strongest Fire Dragon form is confirmed inferior to Magu Magu.
> 
> Wakazuki Hype!!! Also EOS Sabo hype since Awakened Mera should be the strongest fire power.


This was the guy I was waiting for

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Piecesis (May 5, 2022)

akainuDragonFan said:


> In a fight? Kaido
> If we're talking purely who's heat power is greater its probably Akainu


Akainu is a dog so Kaido > Akainu.


----------



## VileNotice (May 5, 2022)

The answer has always been Kaido extreme.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

Dellinger said:


> Show me something better than sky splitting


How is this Flame Dragon vs G5 Luffy clash not better then their sky split in AP?


----------



## Delta Shell (May 5, 2022)

5 pages already wtf


----------



## Piecesis (May 5, 2022)

Delta Shell said:


> 5 pages already wtf


I'm trying to help them get to 20 pages minimum.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

~Flow~ said:


> You said Kaido blocked an Island sized attack and Akainus offense is island sized therfore Akainu> Kaido.


No that’s not what I said.

I said Kaidou is at Island to Large Island level. But I don’t think the Top AP in One Piece is goi by to cap out at Island Level; I think it will reach continental to Planetary by the end; and since Akainu AP is suppose to be Top of the verse he will also be above island level.
—-
Another way to look at it is very simply Magma > Fire and Kaidou’s attack is Flame based, therefore high likely Akainu’s Top attack will exceed it.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## rext1 (May 5, 2022)

Its canon folks, Best admiral would chew Kaido's Sussano like bubble gum.

Also SBS 79 reinforced that Magma > Fire in the One Piece verse.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 1


----------



## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

KBD said:


> Weren't you just out there telling everyone how snakeman Luffy would have beaten Kaido?
> 
> 
> 
> You can straight blow it out your ass, Blueno.


I literally never said that, so that’s a complete lie. I’ve been saying form the beginning Kaidou looses 1v1 to New Gear Form of Luffy. Which is exactly what happened.


----------



## Chaos Hokage (May 5, 2022)

If we're going with Shonen logic, then the next main villain should be stronger than the previous one. Thus, Akainu should be stronger than Kaido as of now or around the time of the final war.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Fujitora (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> No that’s not what I said.
> 
> I said Kaidou is at Island to Large Island level. But I don’t think the Top AP in One Piece is goi by to cap out at Island Level; I think it will reach *continental to Planetary by the end*; and since Akainu AP is suppose to be Top of the verse he will also be above island level.
> —-
> Another way to look at it is very simply Magma > Fire and Kaidou’s attack is Flame based, therefore high likely Akainu’s Top attack will exceed it.


Akainu fought Aokiji toe to toe and has shown none of the above.


----------



## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

~Flow~ said:


> Akainu fought Aokiji toe to toe and has shown none of the above.


We didn’t see the fight, so I’m not sure how you are determining that.


----------



## Pyriz (May 5, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Akainu can definitely beat Mom.


I don't agree

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


----------



## ShadoLord (May 5, 2022)

~Flow~ said:


> 5 trillion Akainus rage fisting Kinemon on the clock wouldnt stop him from still moving around if the plot wills it.


Thank god you’re not Oda so I don’t have to take your bs seriously.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

Delta Shell said:


> 5 pages already wtf


the power of Chadkainu, the most handsome man in One Piece as per Oda

Reactions: Funny 5


----------



## Fujitora (May 5, 2022)

ShadoLord said:


> Thank god you’re not Oda so I don’t have to take your bs seriously.


Thank god you arent Oda either so the only place Akainu is stronger than Kaido is over here with your tier specialist friends ^^

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Fujitora (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> We didn’t see the fight, so I’m not sure how you are determining that.


Because the Island is still there.


----------



## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

@Delta Shell dammit I wanted to make this thread!

Reactions: Funny 3


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> @Delta Shell dammit I wanted to make this thread!


@Delta Shell good work

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> Entertaining the idea of OL polls meaning something



agreed

literally don’t understand when people bring up their side winning in a poll. Pretty sure every regular in this section has voted the less popular opinion in a poll before


----------



## Piecesis (May 5, 2022)

Akainu already shook of Shanks.


----------



## TheWiggian (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> agreed
> 
> literally don’t understand when people bring up their side winning in a poll. Pretty sure every regular in this section has voted the less popular opinion in a poll before



Insecurity. They know their time is up, Kaido's equal and ally fell already and it's his turn now.

Reactions: Lewd 1


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> agreed
> 
> literally don’t understand when people bring up their side winning in a poll. Pretty sure every regular in this section has voted the less popular opinion in a poll before


It's just nice to see the salt come out. When you have no support in the section, no comparable feats and no portrayal, it's always that NaCl that comes out.


----------



## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

~Flow~ said:


> Because the Island is still there.


The land mass they are fighting on is still there after SSB Goku Fights Golden Frieza; they must not be even island level right? Or if Onigashima isn’t destroyed then Luffy and Kaidou aren’t island level?

Is this the only Shonen you have read, just curious?


----------



## Furinji Saiga (May 5, 2022)

Kaido is a regular season game.

Akainu is the finals.

Luffy needs to improve his haki another level before facing off against real magma like Akainu's.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

Furinji Saiga said:


> Kaido is a regular season game.
> 
> *Akainu is the finals*.
> 
> Luffy needs to improve his haki another level before facing off against real magma like Akainu's.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

every single one of these polls will be fun to bump after the Final War feats


----------



## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> It's just nice to see the salt come out. When you have no support in the section, no comparable feats and no portrayal, it's always that NaCl that comes out.


The only side I see being salty and no present arguments is you Kaidou bros, though. Everyone else seems willing to discuss things in a respectful manner and bring actual scans. So seems kind of ironic your talking about salt.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Piecesis (May 5, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


>


Imagine overdosing on copium so much you think Akainu is finals and not BB

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## The crazy hacker (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> The land mass they are fighting on is still there after SSB Goku Fights Golden Frieza; they must not be even island level right? Or if Onigashima isn’t destroyed then Luffy and Kaidou aren’t island level?
> 
> Is this the only Shonen you have read, just curious?


That's because Goku and Frieza have larger feats to powerscale off. You can't say the same for Akainu.


----------



## Mariko (May 5, 2022)

Delta Shell said:


> Which hotboy wins?



Where is the "Worororo" option? 

C'mon...

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## TheWiggian (May 5, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> It's just nice to see the salt come out. *When you have no support in the section*, no comparable feats and no portrayal, it's always that NaCl that comes out.



You are more insecure than I thought

Reactions: Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 1


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> The only side I see being salty and no present arguments is you Kaidou bros, though. Everyone else seems willing to discuss things in a respectful manner and bring actual scans. So seems kind of ironic your talking about salt.


There is nothing to discuss hater  you answering to this post proves me right. You and 2-3 other dudes in the entire section bring more salt than a salt mine and we're all literally laughing at you.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

OL said it so it must be true


----------



## Big king (May 5, 2022)



Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 3 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> You are more insecure than I thought


Throwing what's wrong about you on someone else am I right?


----------



## Mariko (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> @Delta Shell dammit I wanted to make this thread!



Not this time breh.

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Piecesis (May 5, 2022)



Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> It's just nice to see the salt come out. When you have no support in the section, no comparable feats and no portrayal, it's always that NaCl that comes out.



If the poll was about Akainu vs Big Mom, most of the votes would be for Akainu even though I’m sure you would disagree.

I enjoy including polls in all my threads because they are funny, but I don’t think that polls prove anything in a debate. My point was that there are some regulars who think they are correct _because _there side got more votes in a poll and that’s very odd to me.

That’s all I’m saying. And this is coming from someone who voted for Kaido in the poll btw.


----------



## TheWiggian (May 5, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> Throwing what's wrong about you on someone else am I right?



Ahahahahaha keep rating bro  

Now I am 100% certain it's true


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> Ahahahahaha keep rating bro
> 
> Now I am 100% certain it's true


Who tf cares what you're certain of  the loud minority is always overestimated. I'll keep rating, you mentioning it means it bothers you


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> If the poll was about Akainu vs Big Mom, most of the votes would be for Akainu even though I’m sure you would disagree.
> 
> I enjoy including polls in all my threads because they are funny, but I don’t think that polls prove anything in a debate. My point was that there are some regulars who think they are correct _because _there side got more votes in a poll and that’s very odd to me.
> 
> That’s all I’m saying. And this is coming from someone who voted for Kaido in the poll btw.


The poll would hardly be this one sided imo.

Polls do not prove one is right, definitely not, of course, but feats, portrayal and polls do.


----------



## Delta Shell (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> @Delta Shell dammit I wanted to make this thread!

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Piecesis (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> If the poll was about Akainu vs Big Mom, most of the votes would be for Akainu even though I’m sure you would disagree.
> 
> I enjoy including polls in all my threads because they are funny, but I don’t think that polls prove anything in a debate. My point was that there are some regulars who think they are correct _because _there side got more votes in a poll and that’s very odd to me.
> 
> That’s all I’m saying. And this is coming from someone who voted for Kaido in the poll btw.


I agree with most of your logic here but it doesn't apply in this case, if the majority of people think this outside of this section then there's a reason on why that is. It's just an obvious thing to state at this point. 

While more people thinking a certain way doesn't equate to correct. It does hold more weight when it's backedup by the manga.


----------



## TheWiggian (May 5, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> Who tf cares what you're certain of  the loud minority is always overestimated. I'll keep rating, you mentioning it means it bothers you



You need support from the masses because you feel insecure alone. Follow the herd son while the wolf packs tears you guys apart one by one

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

Piecesis said:


> I agree with most of your logic here but it doesn't apply in this case, if the majority of people think this outside of this section then there's a reason on why that is. It's just an obvious thing to state at this point.
> 
> While more people thinking a certain way doesn't equate to correct. It does hold more weight when it's backedup by the manga.



There was an Akainu vs Kaido thread during the chapters where the Scabbards were violating him and the majority voted Akainu.

And this was still when Kaido was known was the strongest. If that doesn’t prove my point about polls not meaning anything outside of funny entertainment then I’m not sure what will.


----------



## T.D.A (May 5, 2022)

Can't put Akainu above Kaido from what Oda has shown us so far.


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> You need support from the masses because you feel insecure alone. Follow the herd son while the wolf packs tears you guys apart one by one


My boy, I vote for BM in most threads, I do not need support, but at least I have feats there. Here, you do not have a thing


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 5, 2022)

Akainu-hive in formation.


----------



## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

The crazy hacker said:


> That's because Goku and Frieza have larger feats to powerscale off. You can't say the same for Akainu.


This has nothing to do with my point. He said because the island still stands they can’t be above island level, I’m disproving that. My logic for Akainu being above island level is entirely different if you read my posts


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> There was an Akainu vs Kaido thread during the chapters where the Scabbards were violating him and the majority voted Akainu.
> 
> And this was still when Kaido was known was the strongest. If that doesn’t prove my point about polls not meaning anything outside of funny entertainment then I’m not sure what will.


Kaido back then didn't have many feats.

If anything, your example shows how strong of a fanbase Akainu has in this section and he's still gravely losing here.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> There is nothing to discuss hater  you answering to this post proves me right. You and 2-3 other dudes in the entire section bring more salt than a salt mine and we're all literally laughing at you.


Yeah this post for sure does prove who is salty lol


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Yeah this post for sure does prove who is salty lol


Give me a reason why I should be salty  
Just one


----------



## TheWiggian (May 5, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> My boy, *I vote for BM in most threads*, I do not need support, but at least I have feats there. Here, you do not have a thing



Already doing damage control


----------



## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> Give me a reason why I should be salty
> Just one


Because Kaidou is going down here and Akainu is still around as a future arc antagonist, and despite your monicker of Dull10, I know your smart enough to understand what that means

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

Akainu carrying OL activity


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> Already doing damage control


Changed the topic willingly it seems  I can literally smell your despair


----------



## Piecesis (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> There was an Akainu vs Kaido thread during the chapters where the Scabbards were violating him and the majority voted Akainu.
> 
> And this was still when Kaido was known was the strongest. If that doesn’t prove my point about polls not meaning anything outside of funny entertainment then I’m not sure what will.


It doesn't prove your point because peoples votes will always be a moment to moment basis, if/when akainu does show better feats, you can make the same poll and it can be skewed in Akainu's favour. Having a statement doesn't do much if his feats are crap. 

The reason why people take/hold WBs statement to a higher value is because it was the first one of its kind, same with Mihawk. 

That Kaido during that time didn't have feats this kaido has, so at this moment we know that Kaido > Akainu. Speculation on Akainu's late game feats doesn't mean shit.


----------



## TheWiggian (May 5, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> Changed the topic willingly it seems  I can literally smell your despair



Ofc you'd change the topic

Reactions: Creative 1


----------



## Hdw (May 5, 2022)

Finally 30% for akainu


----------



## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

Piecesis said:


> It doesn't prove your point because peoples votes will always be a moment to moment basis, if/when akainu does show better feats, you can make the same poll and it can be skewed in Akainu's favour. Having a statement doesn't do much if his feats are crap.
> 
> The reason why people take/hold WBs statement to a higher value is because it was the first one of its kind, same with Mihawk.
> 
> That Kaido during that time didn't have feats this kaido has, so at this moment we know that Kaido > Akainu. Speculation on Akainu's late game feats doesn't mean shit.



I think there’s a misunderstanding

you said that the side with the most votes is backed up by the manga

I’m telling you that Kaido was known as the strongest (backed up by the manga) when he was getting beaten up by the scabbards and yet akainu was dominating the polls at the time

which clearly shows that people are voting something not backed by the manga

which shows that polls don’t mean a damn thing


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Because Kaidou is going down here and Akainu is still around as a future arc antagonist, and despite your monicker of Dull10, I know your smart enough to understand what that means


As if I actually cared about the chronological theory you and a couple of others throw here and there.   Akainu's going to be at best an arc villain, definitely not a saga one and DEFINITELY not a FV. His bosses don't even take him into account when it comes to the Joyboy issue.

You shouldn't start with the name-calling. Guess you wouldn't like me to expose to you the general opinion of the section when it comes to you and your brilliant ideas/opinions.


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

Hdw said:


> Finally 30% for akainu


It's late in the night and the AW community is on-guard. Give the thread another day


----------



## A Optimistic (May 5, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> It's late in the night and the AW community is on-guard. Give the thread another day



what’s AW stand for?

I know you’re talking about admiral fans but I’m actually confused what the W stands for


----------



## Piecesis (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> I think there’s a misunderstanding
> 
> you said that the side with the most votes is backed up by the manga
> 
> ...


Ah I see where you're coming from, it's why I stated the overall opinion of the masses generally have better accuracy than just one forum, for example you can make a Zoro poll here and it becomes skewed in one way despite it not being correct. 

I understand what you're saying clearly now but it doesn't change anything for Kaido in this case if you were to hold a poll anywhere else that is being objective. Statements only hold value when they're backed up by the manga.

People will always have their favourite characters so they'll vote for them no matter what the manga says or if it's funny enough to contradict the manga.


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> what’s AW stand for?
> 
> I know you’re talking about admiral fans but I’m actually confused what the W stands for


It's about the sin of Onan.

Reactions: Informative 1


----------



## Kamisori (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> what’s AW stand for?
> 
> I know you’re talking about admiral fans but I’m actually confused what the W stands for

Reactions: Funny 5 | Creative 2


----------



## Piecesis (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> what’s AW stand for?
> 
> I know you’re talking about admiral fans but I’m actually confused what the W stands for


Probably means Admiral wankers or something

Reactions: Informative 1


----------



## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> As if I actually cared about the chronological theory you and a couple of others throw here and there.   Akainu's going to be at best an arc villain, definitely not a saga one and DEFINITELY not a FV. His bosses don't even take him into account when it comes to the Joyboy issue.
> 
> You shouldn't start with the name-calling. Guess you wouldn't like me to expose to you the general opinion of the section when it comes to you and your brilliant ideas/opinions.


Akainu has been a villain for to the MC long before Kaidou was; and seemingly will be for one after. If your going to talk about sagas and the  length of which someone has been a Villain as the basis of your argument for villain superiority you have already lost despite not even knowing it.

Also doesn’t your name mean Dull, otherwise what does Duhul mean? Tell me and I’ll stop saying it’s Dull.


----------



## Delta Shell (May 5, 2022)

Hdw said:


> Finally 30% for akainu

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Akainu has been a villain for to the MC long before Kaidou was; and seemingly will be for one after. If your going to talk about sagas and the  length of which someone has been a Villain as the basis of your argument for villain superiority you have already lost despite not even knowing it.
> 
> Also doesn’t your name mean Dull, otherwise what does Duhul mean? *Tell me and I’ll stop saying it’s Dull.*


Bolded: idgaf about what you call me, if anything, you could say whatever you want to as long as it gets you banned 

On topic:
You avoiding the point makes everything clear. Akainu is just a pawn in a bigger scheme. A pawn not even taken into consideration when someone of Joyboy's caliber is discussed.


----------



## TheWiggian (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Akainu has been a villain for to the MC long before Kaidou was; and seemingly will be for one after. If your going to talk about sagas and the  length of which someone has been a Villain as the basis of your argument for villain superiority you have already lost despite not even knowing it.
> 
> Also doesn’t your name mean Dull, otherwise what does Duhul mean? Tell me and I’ll stop saying it’s Dull.



He sure is a scary one calling himself ghost/djinn. Phasmophobia might be his favourite game.

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Duhul10 (May 5, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> He sure is a scary one calling himself ghost/djinn. Phasmophobia might be his favourite game.


It's actually way more simple than that, hater. This was a username I used when I was a child on different games and I found it funny to use it here as well, but I'll allow you to create your sick scenarios .


----------



## Rob (May 5, 2022)

Post-TS, FV, Ad-Ad-Ad-Ad-CoC-gains Sakazuki? Him of course


----------



## El Hit (May 5, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> what’s AW stand for?
> 
> I know you’re talking about admiral fans but I’m actually confused what the W stands for


He has tried to make his "AW" a thing for weeks but nobody gives a fuck or knows what means, this alongside "WAAA WHAT A DISGUSTING HATER" is like his gimmick or something.


----------



## Great Potato (May 5, 2022)

Kaido takes the fight.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Asura barracuda (May 5, 2022)

Mariko said:


> Not this time breh.



Hmmm.




Interesting points you're making here, keep going.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## OG sama (May 5, 2022)

Kaido doesn’t even have a heat based fruit, I’m starting to think that Akainu is going to be this fire dragon on roids when we see him in action.

Akainu is getting mad disrespected and he’s a future antagonist with a lava based fruit, realize how even Kaidos strongest from is heat based.

I think Akainu is being very slept on, do people expect Kaido to be better at heat based attacks than a magma man, I wouldn’t even bet a dollar on that guys.

Akainu might honestly be more powerful later on.

Heat based abilities have and are getting good hype in this series.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Mariko (May 5, 2022)

OG sama said:


> Kaido doesn’t even have a heat based fruit, I’m starting to think that Akainu is going to be this fire dragon on roids when we see him in action.
> 
> Akainu is getting mad disrespected and he’s a future antagonist with a lava based fruit, realize how even Kaidos strongest from is heat based.
> 
> ...



He will ofc.

He'll have awakening + pbbly AdCoC.

I hate to admit it, but I guess Oda will eventually portray him as > Kaidou.

Better not though after the show we had with the WSC.

But... I can totally see Oda asspulling this.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Informative 1


----------



## Kirin Thunderclap (May 5, 2022)

It's telling that this by far the coolest thing Kaido has ever done.


Oda is just itching to draw Akainu.

Anyway Akainu wins. Idc what diff.

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## Kirin Thunderclap (May 5, 2022)

Also guys what happened to Kaidos funny club and AdCoC? Why's he opting to use purely lava in his final attack?

I thought thunder bagua was the shit?

Where's the mega ultimate thunder bagua?

Is it not cutting it against G5?

Reactions: Funny 3


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> Also guys what happened to Kaidos funny club and AdCoC? Why's he opting to use purely lava in his final attack?
> 
> I thought thunder bagua was the shit?
> 
> ...


>a villain lied
Im shocked

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## featherine augustus (May 5, 2022)

Akainu is an insect to Kaido lol

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (May 5, 2022)

featherine augustus said:


> Akainu is an insect to Kaido lol





Shiba D. Inu said:


> number of top-tiers Akainu has beaten = 1 (2 if you count taking off half of WBs skull)
> number of top-tiers Kaido has beaten = 0
> 
> number of years Akainu needs to find One Piece = 1 at most as per canon
> number of years Kaido needs to find One Piece = over 20 and counting

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 2


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Akainu has been a villain for to the MC long before Kaidou was; and seemingly will be for one after. If your going to talk about sagas and the  length of which someone has been a Villain as the basis of your argument for villain superiority you have already lost despite not even knowing it.


Talk that talk!!!

They not hearing you.

Wait until Akainu is a saga villain, I got a list of threads of people underestimating him.

Doesn’t seem like Kaido’s attack would have done much to Akainu…das crazy.


----------



## featherine augustus (May 5, 2022)

According to oda in SBS -- Kaido is WSM and Kaido > Akainu

Next

@Shiba D. Inu

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## featherine augustus (May 5, 2022)

Hybrid Kaido high diffs akainu for now


----------



## Nello (May 5, 2022)

Akainu's EOS power level depends if it's gonna be Luffy or Sabo fighting Akainu 

But right now Kaido is stronger unless you think the information box was lying but I don't see why it would be


----------



## IHateAnnoyingJerks (May 5, 2022)

Kaido's Haki is just superior to Akainu's, also better stats, Akainu is more lethal though.


----------



## OG sama (May 5, 2022)

Mariko said:


> He will ofc.
> 
> He'll have awakening + pbbly AdCoC.
> 
> ...


Exactly Mariko kun

I’m not even big on Akainu but it can’t get any more obvious that he will end up being more powerful later on.

Kaidos seemingly strongest form being heat based and Akainu being a literal magma man, it’s so freaking obvious that Kaido isn’t going to be a better pyromancer than a guy whose main abilities are fire related.

If this is Kaidos strongest form then Akainu is the obvious more powerful foe later on.

Reactions: Agree 3


----------



## Canute87 (May 5, 2022)

magma consumes fire.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## featherine augustus (May 5, 2022)

OG sama said:


> Exactly Mariko kun
> 
> I’m not even big on Akainu but it can’t get any more obvious that he will end up being more powerful later on.
> 
> ...


--Akainu has to have an island level form + adv coc and even then Kaido is a mythical zoan and has more power

--Nonetheless imu is going to the main big bad from marine side not akainu and luffy isn't having 2 long fights back to back

--This is even ignoring BB having 3 dfs + awakening and no way is akainu surpassing that


----------



## OG sama (May 5, 2022)

featherine augustus said:


> --Akainu has to have an island level form + adv coc and even then Kaido is a mythical zoan and has more power
> 
> --Nonetheless imu is going to the main big bad from marine side not akainu and luffy isn't having 2 long fights back to back
> 
> --This is even ignoring BB having 3 dfs + awakening and no way is akainu surpassing that


Imu will be a villain well beyond a Kaido level threat.

Akainu will be about an equal or a little better than Kaido.

I don’t see where the issue really is, BB will be well beyond Kaido and Imu will be beyond even BB.


----------



## Fel1x (May 5, 2022)

ok. despite all feats and evidence, some people may say Yonko=admirals. it isn't true and it's far from truth. but ok, let them be

but Akainu being stronger than strongest Yonko and possible strongest being of all time? 19 people who don't give a darn about manga, about feats, portrayal, canon info. just stans who will say Akainu>Kaido even if Luffy no-diffs Akainu next chapter

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2 | Dislike 1


----------



## featherine augustus (May 5, 2022)

OG sama said:


> Imu will be a villain well beyond a Kaido level threat.
> 
> Akainu will be about an equal or a little better than Kaido.
> 
> I don’t see where the issue really is, BB will be well beyond Kaido and Imu will be beyond even BB.


Yes luffy defeats BB then imu ; akainu can't come in between them. Both imu and akainu are going down in same arc. Luffy will fight akainu then leave him to sabo while he proceeds to fight imu


----------



## Piecesis (May 5, 2022)

featherine augustus said:


> Yes luffy defeats BB then imu ; akainu can't come in between them. Both imu and akainu are going down in same arc. Luffy will fight akainu then leave him to sabo while he proceeds to fight imu


No point in debating against a person when the Gorosei state that Akainu is worth less than zero but bow to imu

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## featherine augustus (May 5, 2022)

Piecesis said:


> No point in debating against a person when the Gorosei state that Akainu is worth less than zero but bow to imu




--Akainu is just a top tier at the end ; roger/Prime WB > Akainu

--Luffy will fight BB ( 3 DFs + Awakening) who is more powerful than PK Roger

--Then luffy's final fight is against Imu

--Akainu is non existent in comparison to BB and Imu


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 5, 2022)

Fel1x said:


> ok. despite all feats and evidence, some people may say Yonko=admirals. it isn't true and it's far from truth. but ok, let them be
> 
> but Akainu being stronger than strongest Yonko and possible strongest being of all time? 19 people who don't give a darn about manga, about feats, portrayal, canon info. just stans who will say Akainu>Kaido even if Luffy no-diffs Akainu next chapter


More like Akainu’s representation  paints him as a more serious and personal antagonist to Luffy than Kaido is. He also has a lot of ‘intangible’ similarities to Luffy like wearing red all the time, and fighting using fists. All of the enemies Luffy has faced wronged someone he cared about, Akainu did that x1000 and then went on to personally wrong Luffy right after in a way that left permanent noticeable damage.

The only “logic” I’ve seen people employ concerning why Akainu should be seen as weak is that he didn’t fodderize old Whitebeard, as if Oda would show ANYONE doing that to Whitebeard regardless of him being old or sick. Roger was damn near on his deathbed and he matched prime Whitebeard blow for blow and none of you are using that logic in that scenario. Why is that? I know why, because you know Oda wouldn’t show Roger getting fodderized regardless of the state he was in.

Lastly, fighting almost all of Whitebeard’s commanders solo including some of his top commanders is a better feat than Kaido fighting the scabbards.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Ren. (May 5, 2022)

Delta Shell said:


> Which hotboy wins?


LOL.

Kaido.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Ren. (May 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> >Oda made Kaidos Ultimate a heat based attack .. but its mere fire
> >Akainu is the GOD of heat in the verse and uses the superior lava


No, it is fire_haki.

COC FIRE haki


----------



## featherine augustus (May 5, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> Lastly, fighting almost all of Whitebeard’s commanders solo including some of his top commanders is a better feat than Kaido fighting the scabbards.


Akainu "fought" them for half a chapter where he has marines backing him up. Kaido defeated every scabbard lol

Please write accurate facts

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Ren. (May 5, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> Entertaining the idea of OL polls meaning something


Yeah OL thinks Zoro is more Popular than Luffy


----------



## Fujitora (May 5, 2022)

OG sama said:


> Exactly Mariko kun
> 
> I’m not even big on Akainu but it can’t get any more obvious that he will end up being more powerful later on.
> 
> ...


Kaido isnt just this fire form, its the whole package. It would be like comparing Kaido lifting Onigashima to Fujis fruit.

Reactions: Agree 4


----------



## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

~Flow~ said:


> Kaido isnt just this fire form, its the whole package. It would be like comparing Kaido lifting Onigashima to Fujis fruit.


Depends because this is Kaidou’s strongest attack so far. So AP wise it’s pretty fair comparison. Durability/Resilience wise not so much.


----------



## Shanks (May 5, 2022)

Kaido have feats hype portrayal vs Akainu have mah Admirals  

This is a tough one to pick


----------



## Fujitora (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Depends because this is Kaidou’s strongest attack so far. So AP wise it’s pretty fair comparison. Durability/Resilience wise not so much.


I dont know, he hasnt been fighting Luffy in his Drunk mode. Most of his fight with him post G5 was in normal hybrid. Id say this one is good for covering space/soaking since he said he will take Luffys attack head on. Wouldnt really work in his Hybrid against an Island sized Fist.


----------



## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

~Flow~ said:


> I dont know, he hasnt been fighting Luffy in his Drunk mode. Most of his fight with him post G5 was in normal hybrid. Id say this one is good for covering space/soaking since he said he will take Luffys attack head on. Wouldnt really work in his Hybrid against an Island sized Fist.


I mean what other attack has higher AP then one that could stop this punch


----------



## Fujitora (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> I mean what other attack has higher AP then one that could stop this punch


He might lose here actually.


----------



## Turrin (May 5, 2022)

~Flow~ said:


> He might lose here actually.


With extreme diff if he does, so what attack is beyond that


----------



## Fujitora (May 5, 2022)

Turrin said:


> With extreme diff if he does, so what attack is beyond that


I mean Kaido is losing.


----------



## truedetectiveseason2intro (May 5, 2022)

Feeling more and more like akainu is for sabo


----------



## MO (May 5, 2022)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> Feeling more and more like akainu is for sabo


akainu has been for sabo since sabo inherited ace's fruit. A certain stanbase has a hard time swallowing that pill.


Anyways kaido whoops his ass.

Reactions: Like 6


----------



## Sherlōck (May 5, 2022)

Not this shit again? 

How come Laidou fans are so insecure in their own arc? It's embarrassing.

Reactions: Funny 3 | Winner 2 | Disagree 1 | Tier Specialist 5 | Dislike 1


----------



## OverpoweredNPC (May 5, 2022)

Stop trying Kaido like this. It's the same answer every week. He will win everytime. He just plain outlast him. It's going to be an extreme fight because its Akainu and I respect his strength as the Fleet Admiral and his lethality, but hes not walking away after fighting Kaidou. 

All the Yonkou know who the Admiralls are, Mihaek knows who the admirals are, yet they dont blink or show discomfort when their mentioned or when they want to oppose the WG. They dont stress it in my opinion, they just respect their strength.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Sherlōck (May 5, 2022)

The crazy hacker said:


> That's because Goku and Frieza have larger feats to powerscale off. You can't say the same for Akainu.



So does Akainu.

WB's attack shook islands hundreds of kilometres away and Akainu matched it. That's better than any attack Kaidou or any other top tier bar WB has done.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1 | Dislike 1


----------



## Turrin (May 6, 2022)

~Flow~ said:


> I mean Kaido is losing.


I’m not sure about that but if he does, what attack from Kaidou is stronger


----------



## Fujitora (May 6, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> the power of Chadkainu, the most handsome man in One Piece as per Oda


Look at that giant forehead.


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 6, 2022)

~Flow~ said:


> Look at that giant forehead.


A hairline like that in his 50’s? Dude is the goat.


----------



## blueWaves (May 6, 2022)

Kaido at this moment in time gets the benefit of the doubt.

Could Akainu be stronger in the future? Possibly, but right now, you have to go with Kaido as he has the feats to show case his power.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Corax (May 6, 2022)

We don't know anything about Akainu's awakening and haki progress post TS. I guess this thread is too early. For me it isn't correct to compare all out Kaido with Akainu 500 chapters from the past.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 6, 2022)

featherine augustus said:


> Akainu "fought" them for half a chapter where he has marines backing him up. Kaido defeated every scabbard lol
> 
> Please write accurate facts


Fodder marines vs Whitebeard commanders? You know arguably the weakest one defeated a top dog in the CP0. Akainu was basically alone unless you want to also mention that everyone fought fodder beast pirates prior to fighting Kaido.

Also, panel time does not equal in universe time.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## Seraphoenix (May 6, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> he needed 10 days to beat another top-tier, a near equal. Something that Kaido has never done so far (beat a top-tier in a clean 1v1)


He beat Luffy who is stronger than Sakazuki


----------



## featherine augustus (May 6, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> Fodder marines vs Whitebeard commanders? You know arguably the weakest one defeated a top dog in the CP0. Akainu was basically alone unless you want to also mention that everyone fought fodder beast pirates prior to fighting Kaido.
> 
> Also, panel time does not equal in universe time.


Again in the same chapter we see marines backing lol ; how do you know so much time passed?

Doesn't matter ; and no one was defeated aside for curiel. Also burden of proof false on you to prove he fought all together.


----------



## featherine augustus (May 6, 2022)

blueWaves said:


> Kaido at this moment in time gets the benefit of the doubt.
> 
> Could Akainu be stronger in the future? Possibly, but right now, you have to go with Kaido as he has the feats to show case his power.


This should be everyone's answer

Reactions: Friendly 1


----------



## featherine augustus (May 6, 2022)

Sherlōck said:


> So does Akainu.
> 
> WB's attack shook islands hundreds of kilometres away and Akainu matched it. That's better than any attack Kaidou or any other top tier bar WB has done.


Like his single quake punch? Luffy's KKG on dressrossa was already city level and luffy has gained adv coc + adv coa + more physical strength and mother fucking kaido tanked it like a boss. Current KKG should be small island level at least and MF is much smaller than onigashima


----------



## featherine augustus (May 6, 2022)

Sherlōck said:


> Not this shit again?
> 
> How come Laidou fans are so insecure in their own arc? It's embarrassing.


Admiral fans in suicide watch like you lol


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (May 6, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> He beat Luffy who is stronger than Sakazuki


Bowlerhat beat Luffy


----------



## Piecesis (May 6, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Bowlerhat beat Luffy


He's also stronger than Akainu

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2 | Creative 1


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (May 6, 2022)

Kaido wont even need this form to begin with. AdCoC = GG Acai-no.

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## Sherlōck (May 6, 2022)

featherine augustus said:


> Like his single quake punch? Luffy's KKG on dressrossa was already city level and luffy has gained adv coc + adv coa + more physical strength and mother fucking kaido tanked it like a boss. Current KKG should be small island level at least and MF is much smaller than onigashima



WB's quake >>> KKG. 

Also come back when Luffy/Laidou's attack is felt 100 kilometres away.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 4


----------



## Seraphoenix (May 6, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Bowlerhat beat Luffy


Post-Udon Luffy is stronger than Akainu. Let alone advanced CotC Luffy.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (May 6, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Post-Udon Luffy is stronger than Akainu.


----------



## Seraphoenix (May 6, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


>


Haki: Luffy has future sight and penetration CoA. Akainu just has barrier haki and _maybe_ future sight.
Speed: lol
Strength: Again lol
Power: More lol

Luffy completely outclasses him 

WCI was about Luffy learning how to beat a logia admiral. Post-Udon Luffy takes him out


----------



## featherine augustus (May 6, 2022)

Sherlōck said:


> WB's quake >>> KKG.
> 
> Also come back when Luffy/Laidou's attack is felt 100 kilometres away.


Current Luffy KKG > WB's attack on lakainu

Kaido's passive flamed mode >> MF

Quote me when fodder lakainu can tank 10 times WB's attack


----------



## truedetectiveseason2intro (May 6, 2022)

MO said:


> akainu has been for sabo since sabo inherited ace's fruit. A certain stanbase has a hard time swallowing that pill.
> 
> 
> Anyways kaido whoops his ass.


I was iffy on it leaning more toward sabo but then Luffy gets the god fruit joyboy had after we find out there’s a secret ruler behind the world gov. Then kaido just keeps racking up shit.


----------



## Delta Shell (May 6, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Post-Udon Luffy is stronger than Akainu. Let alone advanced CotC Luffy.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Seraphoenix (May 6, 2022)

Delta Shell said:


>


? How does Akainu beat him? With inferior haki? Inferior physical stats?

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1 | Informative 1


----------



## Sherlōck (May 6, 2022)

featherine augustus said:


> *Current Luffy KKG > WB's attack on lakainu*
> 
> Kaido's passive flamed mode >> MF
> 
> Quote me when fodder lakainu can tank 10 times WB's attack



I can see you are triggered and started spouting BS like bolded. 

Thanks for playing but I don't to waste time debating numbnuts.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 1


----------



## Garcher (May 6, 2022)

Giving Kaido the benefit of the doubt  right now because he has proven to be much stronger than fellow top tier BM


----------



## Chip Skylark (May 6, 2022)

Why we making this same thread every week?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


----------



## featherine augustus (May 6, 2022)

Sherlōck said:


> I can see you are triggered and started spouting BS like bolded.
> 
> Thanks for playing but I don't to waste time debating numbnuts.


Concession accepted


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 6, 2022)

featherine augustus said:


> Again in the same chapter we see marines backing lol ; how do you know so much time passed?
> 
> Doesn't matter ; and no one was defeated aside for curiel. Also burden of proof false on you to prove he fought all together.


I want you to sound out every word I say this time so you don’t miss anything. Fodder marines were backing Akainu during that fight. They are of no consequence. You are the one who tried to tell me that Akainu was fighting for less time than Kaido was.

Akainu did all of this after taking a blindside from Whitebeard and removing half of his face. He took out Ivankov and Jimbei as well.




Chip Skylark said:


> Why we making this same thread every week?


Because we’re getting closer and closer to being proven right about Kaido not being the strongest.



Seraphoenix said:


> Haki: Luffy has future sight and penetration CoA. Akainu just has barrier haki and _maybe_ future sight.
> Speed: lol
> Strength: Again lol
> Power: More lol
> ...


Why are you saying all of this like it’s a fact when we’ve only seen him use barrier haki?

We didn’t see anyone on Marineford use advanced levels of haki. Even when Whitebeard and Shanks split the sky the visual cues for ACoC weren’t there.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 2


----------



## Duhul10 (May 6, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> I want you to sound out every word I say this time so you don’t miss anything. Fodder marines were backing Akainu during that fight. They are of no consequence. You are the one who tried to tell me that Akainu was fighting for less time than Kaido was.
> 
> Akainu did all of this after taking a blindside from Whitebeard and removing half of his face. He took out Ivankov and Jimbei as well.
> 
> ...

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 6, 2022)

Ratio

Reactions: Funny 7 | Winner 2


----------



## Van Basten (May 6, 2022)

Akainu extreme diff.

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 6, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Post-Udon Luffy is stronger than Akainu. Let alone advanced CotC Luffy.


The admirals are gone be a _breeze _then. How lucky for Luffy!

They’ve been hyped up for almost 20 years but them being fodderized seems entirely reasonable! Luffy might even one shot each of them. Right?

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## convict (May 6, 2022)

Kaido is also a very bad matchup for Akainu because he seems very resistant to heat based attacks which is Akainu's primary moveset. Heat is only part of Kaido's moveset on the other hand.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


----------



## Turrin (May 6, 2022)

convict said:


> Kaido is also a very bad matchup for Akainu because he seems very resistant to heat based attacks which is Akainu's primary moveset. Heat is only part of Kaido's moveset on the other hand.


Tell this to Ace. For Oda it’s clearly the other way around Magma > Fire

Reactions: Agree 2 | Tier Specialist 1


----------



## Seraphoenix (May 6, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> The admirals are gone be a _breeze _then. How lucky for Luffy!
> 
> They’ve been hyped up for almost 20 years but them being fodderized seems entirely reasonable! Luffy might even one shot each of them. Right?


Where were they hyped? There is a databook written by Oda that says Marco is admiral level. Those are your heroes    such hype 

Luffy won't fodderise them because he will fight them 1v3, btw.

Reactions: Winner 2 | Tier Specialist 4


----------



## convict (May 6, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Tell this to Ace



There is only so much heat resistance can do if the difference in strength is that much. Kaido isn't going to brush of Akainu's attacks or anything, he is just better equipped to deal with them than say Shanks or Mihawk. And in a fight of almost equals that is key.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 6, 2022)

The moment where just Kaido's side ability alone is stronger than Akainu's primary power  
And that's before even factoring in ACoC, Durability, Flight advantage, Endurance, Physical strength, speed and power btw.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


----------



## Turrin (May 6, 2022)

convict said:


> There is only so much heat resistance can do if the difference in strength is that much. Kaido isn't going to brush of Akainu's attacks or anything, he is just better equipped to deal with them than say Shanks or Mihawk.


I have to disagree. The narrative intent there was not about a power gap, but about a conflict of abilities. That’s why Ace was shown clashing equally with Aokiji a moment before then despite the power gap, but then lost out to Akainu’s Magma, despite us knowing Aokiji and Akainu are very close in power.

The narrative Oda is telling us is that Fire is Weak to Lava because Lava is further up the Hierarchy of Heat based Powers. As such Akainu is a bad match up for Kaidou, since Kaidou’s strongest move will be outclassed by Akainu’s due to Lava > Fire dynamic Oda is leaning into.


----------



## Turrin (May 6, 2022)

Ebitan said:


> The moment where just Kaido's side ability alone is stronger than Akainu's primary power
> And that's before even factoring in ACoC, Durability, Flight advantage, Endurance, Physical strength, speed and power btw.


How is Kaidou’s strongest attack to date his side ability. This seems really ridiculous reachy even for you

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 6, 2022)

Turrin said:


> How is Kaidou’s strongest attack to date his side ability. This seems really ridiculous reachy even for you


Heat is just one of the many aspects of Kaido's ability, he is a master of all traits unlike one trick pony Akainu.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Turrin (May 6, 2022)

Ebitan said:


> Heat is just one of the many aspects of Kaido's ability, he is a master of all traits unlike one trick pony Akainu.


Heat is currently Kaidou’s strongest move. So it’s not just one of his aspects, it’s one of his best aspects. Please stop the reaching, not a good look

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


----------



## Brian (May 6, 2022)

Damn, the few ppl who voted Akainu really stretched this to 10 pages

Reactions: Funny 5


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 6, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Heat is currently Kaidou’s strongest move. So it’s not just one of his aspects, it’s one of his best aspects. Please stop the reaching, not a good look


Wrong, Kaido's strongest ability is his durability and endurance, and Kaido's strongest offensive powers lies in his Haki + ACoC + Physical power, with heat being a supporting aspect.


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 6, 2022)

Turrin said:


> *Heat is currently Kaidou’s strongest move.* So it’s not just one of his aspects, it’s one of his best aspects. Please stop the reaching, not a good look


Also when will you stop contradicting yourself to fit your own agenda , Turrin? Are we about to see your comedic performance once more ? Was yesterday's humiliation insufficient for you?

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Ruse (May 6, 2022)

Kaido but I hope Akainu turns out to be stronger somehow

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 6, 2022)

Brian said:


> Damn, the few ppl who voted Akainu really stretched this to 10 pages


They need to be a hundred times louder in the comments because the votes alone drown out their nonsense.

Reactions: Funny 5


----------



## Turrin (May 6, 2022)

Ebitan said:


> Also when will you stop contradicting yourself to fit your own agenda , Turrin? Are we about to see your comedic performance once more ? Was yesterday's humiliation insufficient for you?


What is being contradicted there. Please explain to me what only you can see. Or is this you once again being a troll to deflect from losing an argument?


----------



## Turrin (May 6, 2022)

Ebitan said:


> Wrong, Kaido's strongest ability is his durability and endurance, and Kaido's strongest offensive powers lies in his Haki + ACoC + Physical power, with heat being a supporting aspect.


I said one of his strongest moves / attributes. Do you not understand what “one of” means?


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 6, 2022)

Turrin said:


> What is being contradicted there. Please explain to me what only you can see. Or is this you once again being a troll to deflect from losing an argument?


I told you I stopped taking you seriously ever since you made the Planet level + Siege wall claim, prove to me you are even worth my time by owning up to your own checkmates. You yourself first said Kaido's main focus is his Haki, NOW you change it to heat being his main focus.   

Don't expect me wasting time on a comedian.


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 6, 2022)

Turrin said:


> I said one of his strongest moves / attributes. Do you not understand what “one of” means?


And doesn't change the fact that one of his aspects alone shits on Akainu's greatest feats so far.

I literally said Kaido is a master of all aspects, and even one of those alone beats Akainu in his own game.

God, who is the one not capable of reading here ?


----------



## Turrin (May 6, 2022)

Ebitan said:


> I told you I stopped taking you seriously ever since you made the Planet level + Siege wall claim, prove to me you are even worth my time by owning up to your own checkmates. You yourself first said Kaido's main focus is his Haki, NOW you change it to heat being his main focus.
> 
> Don't expect me wasting time on a comedian.


So basically you stopped taking me seriously the moment I crushed you in an argument, where you couldn’t prove your premise


----------



## convict (May 6, 2022)

Turrin said:


> I have to disagree. The narrative intent there was not about a power gap, but about a conflict of abilities. That’s why Ace was shown clashing equally with Aokiji a moment before then despite the power gap, but then lost out to Akainu’s Magma, despite us knowing Aokiji and Akainu are very close in power.
> 
> The narrative Oda is telling us is that Fire is Weak to Lava because Lava is further up the Hierarchy of Heat based Powers. As such Akainu is a bad match up for Kaidou, since Kaidou’s strongest move will be outclassed by Akainu’s due to Lava > Fire dynamic Oda is leaning into.


I guarantee that Kaido’s strongest move will be something else. And it is the dragon’s intrinsic resistance to heat that I’m talking about he isn’t made of fire like Ace.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Turrin (May 6, 2022)

Ebitan said:


> And doesn't change the fact that one of his aspects alone shits on Akainu's greatest feats so far.
> 
> I literally said Kaido is a master of all aspects, and even one of those alone beats Akainu in his own game.
> 
> God, who is the one not capable of reading here ?


So concession accepted that this is indeed one of his best aspects. Thanks


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 6, 2022)

Turrin said:


> So basically you stopped taking me seriously the moment I crushed you in an argument, where you couldn’t prove your premise


>I crushed you in an argument.
>Claims that Siege wall is made of seastones and got debunked completely.
>Changes argument to Siege wall is Planet level in durability.


When will you stop being a clown, Turrin?

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Turrin (May 6, 2022)

convict said:


> I guarantee that Kaido’s strongest move will be something else.


Idk man to me this looks like it’s his ultimate attack, since it parallel’s Kings ultimate attack. Plus it smoothly sets up the perfect hype tool for Luffy next major enemy who is likely Akainu, by being able to hype his heat as being even hotter then this. Too much kind of makes sense here for it not to be his strongest move; or some variation of this heat dragon. But we will see next week


----------



## Turrin (May 6, 2022)

Ebitan said:


> >I crushed you in an argument.
> >Claims that Siege wall is made of seastones and got debunked completely.
> >Changes argument to Siege wall is Planet level in durability.
> 
> ...


I don’t think you understand what a debunk is. No offense


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 6, 2022)

Turrin said:


> So concession accepted that this is indeed one of his best aspects. Thanks


No? You literally contradicted yourself, once again, in the same post.



>Heat is currently Kaidou's *strongest *move.
>It's *one of* his best aspects.

You cannot be *one of *the greatest and still be *THE greatest* at the same time.

Heat alone is NOT Kaido's strongest move , it is a combination of Heat + ACoC + Zoan physicals. And just the heat part alone shits on Akainu's best feats.

I debunked your first statement, which you also contradicted yourself afterwards.

Need grammar classes?


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 6, 2022)

Turrin said:


> I don’t think you understand what a debunk is. No offense


I don't think you understand English. No offense.


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 6, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Where were they hyped? There is a databook written by Oda that says Marco is admiral level. Those are your heroes    such hype
> 
> Luffy won't fodderise them because he will fight them 1v3, btw.


Admirals were never hyped. Genuinely never heard that one before. Be proud, this is a first.




Ebitan said:


> They need to be a hundred times louder in the comments because the votes alone drown out their nonsense.


I was damn near alone in the ACoC > DF awakening thread also. Nobody returned to admit how wrong they were. Numbers mean nothing.

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


----------



## Seraphoenix (May 6, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> Admirals were never hyped. Genuinely never heard that one before. Be proud, this is a first.
> 
> 
> 
> I was damn near alone in the ACoC > DF awakening thread also. Nobody returned to admit how wrong they were. Numbers mean nothing.


Concession accepted. Oda said Marco is admiral level. Go write him some hate mail. Also go cry in the corner about your dreams about admiral hype. The author of the manga firmly placed them at Marco level. If you're lucky Akainu will make it to deathbed Yonko level.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


----------



## Turrin (May 6, 2022)

Ebitan said:


> No? You literally contradicted yourself, once again, in the same post.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


His Strongest Move is about AP.
One of his aspects is about overall.

Stop trying to dance your way out of your L


----------



## Turrin (May 6, 2022)

Ebitan said:


> I don't think you understand English. No offense.


See you resort to lies once again. While I’m only speaking the truth.

To debunk something is to expose it as false. You didn’t debunk the wall had Seastone in it. All you showed was evidence it wasn’t normal steel, which supports the likelihood of it having Seastone in it, not falsifies it.

So please learn what debunk is before you start accusing others of not understanding English.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 6, 2022)

Turrin said:


> His Strongest Move is about AP.
> One of his aspects is about overall.
> 
> Stop trying to dance your way out of your L


Fantastic, completely ignoring this whole sentence.

*Heat alone is NOT Kaido's strongest move , it is a combination of Heat + ACoC + Zoan physicals. And just the heat part alone shits on Akainu's best feats.*

Dancing my way out of my L? I am dancing around you right now buddy.

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 6, 2022)

Turrin said:


> See you resort to lies once again.* While I’m only speaking the truth.*
> 
> To debunk something is to expose it as false. You didn’t debunk the wall had Seastone in it.* All you showed was evidence it wasn’t normal steel, which supports the likelihood of it having Seastone in it, not falsifies it.*
> 
> So please learn what debunk is before you start accusing others of not understanding English.


----------



## Turrin (May 6, 2022)

Ebitan said:


> Fantastic, completely ignoring this whole sentence.
> 
> *Heat alone is NOT Kaido's strongest move , it is a combination of Heat + ACoC + Zoan physicals. And just the heat part alone shits on Akainu's best feats.*
> 
> Dancing my way out of my L? I am dancing around you right now buddy.


So here you are trying to dance again.

Heat is the primary focus of this move in the Narrative. And this is Kaidou’s strongest move in the story so far. So as things stand the greatest contributing factor to Kaidou’s AP is heat.

Your trying to relegate heat to only a minor side ability of Kaidou’s is a clear bias attempt to downplay a character rather then actually being true to the narrative of One Piece or the large mythos of what Dragons are known for.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Turrin (May 6, 2022)

Ebitan said:


>


So once again you have nothing but trolling when confronted with the meaning of Debunk. Thanks for conceding a second time that you have no counter argument

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 6, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Concession accepted. Oda said Marco is admiral level. Go write him some hate mail. Also go cry in the corner about your dreams about admiral hype. The author of the manga firmly placed them at Marco level. If you're lucky Akainu will make it to deathbed Yonko level.


It’s wild that Oda said the series would only last a year if he was the protagonist. He must have amazing navigational capabilities and be really good at running and hiding or something. There’s no chance that he’s actually really strong, right?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


----------



## Turrin (May 6, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Concession accepted. Oda said Marco is admiral level. Go write him some hate mail. Also go cry in the corner about your dreams about admiral hype. The author of the manga firmly placed them at Marco level. If you're lucky Akainu will make it to deathbed Yonko level.


Why is Marco being Admiral level matter. All that means is he could qualify for the role, doesn’t mean he wouldn’t get his ass beat by the stronger Admirals. Same thing with BM being a Yonko, doesn’t mean she wouldn’t get her ass beat by Kaidou.

Silly downplay argument.


----------



## Virus (May 6, 2022)

Akainu obviously.

Boro breath can't do shit to akainu

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


----------



## RossellaFiamingo (May 6, 2022)

I like how delusional Admiral wankers say "I give Kaido the benefit of the doubt" 
 It's almost as if the person he's in a vs match wasn't 2 shot by a dusty old bones Newgate and had to literally hole crawl his way while waiting for said Newgate to finally die before he showed his face again.

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## RossellaFiamingo (May 6, 2022)

Kaido mid diffs

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## trance (May 6, 2022)

kiddo

this is final clash btw


----------



## Ezekjuninor (May 6, 2022)

Virus said:


> Akainu obviously.
> 
> Boro breath can't do shit to akainu


It's not like Kaido has any other attacks

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Mariko (May 6, 2022)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> Kaido mid diffs



If nerfed by dozens of high tier fighters before. 

Otherwise it's a low D.


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 6, 2022)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> I like how delusional Admiral wankers say "I give Kaido the benefit of the doubt"
> It's almost as if the person he's in a vs match wasn't 2 shot by a dusty old bones Newgate and had to literally hole crawl his way while waiting for said Newgate to finally die before he showed his face again.


Where was Akainu one shot? He was blindsided by two shots at best and immediately stood back up and continued working.

Anyone who thinks Oda would ever show Whitebeard getting fodderized by anyone no matter how old or sick doesn’t understand the series or Oda at all.

Threads like these should ALWAYS be set up where people can’t change their votes.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Siskebabas (May 6, 2022)

Cmon bruhs, Kaido is not better at melting things than Akainu, thats whole magma boy shtick. 
Though Kaido wins for obvious reasons


----------



## Turrin (May 6, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> Where was Akainu one shot? He was blindsided by two shots at best and immediately stood back up and continued working.
> 
> Anyone who thinks Oda would ever show Whitebeard getting fodderized by anyone no matter how old or sick doesn’t understand the series or Oda at all.
> 
> Threads like these should ALWAYS be set up where people can’t change their votes.


This is a person who voted for BM Misery being > Kaidou’s Flame Dragon. Don’t waste your time

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## shintebukuro (May 6, 2022)

Ebitan said:


> They need to be a hundred times louder in the comments because the votes alone drown out their nonsense.



I'll gladly be in the minority.

The sheep feel comfortable around others.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Friendly 1


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 6, 2022)

shintebukuro said:


> I'll gladly be in the minority.
> 
> The sheep feel comfortable around others.


Yeah I can tell you feel comfortable around the minorities.

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Mariko (May 6, 2022)

Akainu to Kizaru: "No, don't go to Wano, them hardcore samurais..."

Kizaru: "Samurais, really?"

Akainu: "Fak you."

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


----------



## YellowCosmos (May 6, 2022)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> It's almost as if the person he's in a vs match wasn't 2 shot by a dusty old bones Newgate and had to literally hole crawl his way while waiting for said Newgate to finally die before he showed his face again.



Akainu wasn't two-shotted. He was hurt and fell into a chasm that had filled with seawater. Since he didn't _drown_, it's obvious that he wasn't incapacitated. He was clearly still in a good enough shape to be able to save himself. (This you should have inferred from the fact that he was willing to engage the Whitebeard Commanders _by himself)._

Nor did he "wait" for Whitebeard to die. He made a beeline for Luffy because he wanted to kill Luffy. While Whitebeard was dealing with Blackbeard, Akainu was melting his way underground towards his goal. He had no reason to concern himself with Whitebeard even before Whitebeard died, because Akainu had already guaranteed Whitebeard's death with Meigou.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


----------



## The crazy hacker (May 6, 2022)

YellowCosmos said:


> Akainu wasn't two-shotted. He was hurt and fell into a chasm that had filled with seawater. Since he didn't _drown_, it's obvious that he wasn't incapacitated. He was clearly still in a good enough shape to be able to save himself. (This you should have inferred from the fact that he was willing to engage the Whitebeard Commanders _by himself)._
> 
> Nor did he "wait" for Whitebeard to die. He made a beeline for Luffy because he wanted to kill Luffy. While Whitebeard was dealing with Blackbeard, Akainu was melting his way underground towards his goal. He had no reason to concern himself with Whitebeard even before Whitebeard died, because Akainu had already guaranteed Whitebeard's death with Meigou.


Why didn't Akainu get up and kill WB? Because he couldn't WB won that fight. Akainu isn't going to be punched and ignore it.


----------



## blueWaves (May 6, 2022)

I will say this, if Akainu > Kaido cause of the meta reason of next antagonist is stronger than the last, he's going to to have to make a compelling case.

Because Kaido showings are insane. All three adv. versions of Haki, Mythical Zoan DF that gives him the ability to transform into a Dragon and Dragon/Oni Hybrid, to Fly and to have 3 elemental attacks in Fire/Wind/Lightning. One of the most physically opposing beings..

Oda has his work cut out to make readers believe Akainu > Kaido.

Reactions: Like 4


----------



## YellowCosmos (May 6, 2022)

The crazy hacker said:


> Why didn't Akainu get up and kill WB? Because he couldn't WB won that fight. Akainu isn't going to be punched and ignore it.



Didn't I say he was hurt and fell into a chasm?

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Turrin (May 6, 2022)

blueWaves said:


> I will say this, if Akainu > Kaido cause of the meta reason of next antagonist is stronger than the last, he's going to to have to make a compelling case.
> 
> Because Kaido showings are insane. All three adv. versions of Haki, Mythical Zoan DF that gives him the ability to transform into a Dragon and Dragon/Oni Hybrid, to Fly and to have 3 elemental attacks in Fire/Wind/Lightning. One of the most physically opposing beings..
> 
> Oda has his work cut out to make readers believe Akainu > Kaido.


Luffy, “His Haki is just as strong, but this heat is  several times what it was against Kaidou”

It’s that easy thanks to this chapter

It’s almost like Oda was writing with this very thing in mind, almost

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


----------



## The crazy hacker (May 6, 2022)

YellowCosmos said:


> Didn't I say he was hurt and fell into a chasm?


Whitebeard could have killed Akainu had the chasm didn't open. He would give him one more quake and that's it. He was bloodlusted while Akainu could only fight later.


----------



## Yumi Zoro (May 6, 2022)

I think Akainu take it at least high diff.


Let us not forget that Akainu vs Aokiji was a fight between two element who Can cancel each other.

No Wonder PH was not burned in second when Aokiji and Akainu fought.

The Hear produced by Akainu was being nulified by Aokiji for these 10 days.

And let us not forgot that Akainu literaly turned to Ash a Massive Giant Ice with his Lava Punch and deal Massive blow to the WB pirates in a single attack in Marinford.

And next Time WE see Akainu he will be far stronger that Ever cause of Haki being a thing in Time skip.


----------



## Yumi Zoro (May 6, 2022)

Also why are people even using Kaido's feat to put him above the other top tier?

Shouldnt this be instead mean that the top tier in general are more stronger than WE though?

Not to sound like I'm defending Shiba De Inu but I Can understand why he still think Kaido aren't thé stronger by feat.

True Kaido fought a Gauntlet but so Can any other top tier.

Would these top tier tank all thé attack? No, but against other top tier most of the scabbard and Rooftop 5 would be already dead, not every top tier will mess around like was doing Kaido and Big Mom.

Bar G4 ad CoC Luffy who will give them some trouble before they win when they get serious.

If WE should follow portrayal, G5 Luffy is the only legit top tier  so far.

G4 Luffy has the state but it lacked endurance, Luffy is basically top tier for 10 minutes at best, which to be faitr mean this Luffy aren't Oden level either cause Oden doesnt depend on a form that limit his power.

So if any other top tier where in Kaido's place they will only get their hand full with G5 Luffy.

Doesnt this mean G5 Luffy is not as strong as the Gorosei Say? I think the answer is obviously no, G5 is a God tier power its just that Luffy has yet to figure out his Real power. You likely need a mightly Haki to fully control the potential of thé fruit.

Reactions: Disagree 1


----------



## The crazy hacker (May 6, 2022)

Yumi Zoro said:


> Also why are people even using Kaido's feat to put him above the other top tier?
> 
> Shouldnt this be instead mean that the top tier in général are more stronger than WE though?
> 
> ...


Why do you assume that most other top tiers are as strong as Kaido? None of them other than guys like Prime beard and Roger can fight 15 people and  a top tier. Its all to support the admirals=yonkou narrative which is looking less likely every single arc.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Canute87 (May 6, 2022)

I remember how people would laugh a boro breath.

Where are those people now?

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Virus (May 6, 2022)

Akainu is more lethal than Kaido imo

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Optimistic 1


----------



## Duhul10 (May 6, 2022)

Some AWs here actually trying to make it look as if Kaido's heat is equal to regular fire

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Yumi Zoro (May 6, 2022)

The crazy hacker said:


> Why do you assume that most other top tiers are as strong as Kaido? None of them other than guys like Prime beard and Roger can fight 15 people and  a top tier. Its all to support the admirals=yonkou narrative which is looking less likely every single arc.



Let us be honest, Kaido is purposely taking all hit when fighting them.

Other top tier wont even let the 15 people you menstioned to tagg them.

They are getting ride of them in 1 or 2 attack.

Kaido was playing with them.

Also I'm not saying that all top tier as strong as Kaido, just that they are all around thé same level anyway.


_This Can sound ridiculous for some, but Knowing how shounin work dont bé surprised If other top tier are shown far above Kaido later.

Shanks definitely should be either equal or stronger , same for Akainu, Dragon and Mihawk.

Mihawk being also a World strongest like Kaido
Shanks being in Kaido's tier list
Akainu being the current nº1 in Marine and World gourvnment force.
Dragon being the strongest Revo obviously.

and there is Blackbeard.

ALso Kizaru's clam to go go Marinford to take on Big Mom and Kaido is very ridiculous now that I think about it.
either its just a joke or Oda is about to create a power creep when Oda move to the endgame.

Also I'm not taking any side, Kaido definitely impressed me but you should not sleep on the other top tier either._


----------



## Well actually (May 6, 2022)

Ebitan said:


> Also when will you stop contradicting yourself to fit your own agenda , Turrin? Are we about to see your comedic performance once more ? Was yesterday's humiliation insufficient for you?


Planet-lvl WB lmao.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Baroxio (May 6, 2022)

Piecesis said:


> Then where is Jinbei's scar if it went through him.


Winbei built different.


----------



## HunterXHunted (May 6, 2022)

If Akainu was so certain he could take down Kaido and his crew, the Marines would have done so ages ago. For all of Kaidos power, hes about to be taken down by a rag tag pirate alliance and a few hundred samurai. The Marines have vastly superior manpower. Tells me one thing. Kaido is significantly above anyone in the Marine heirarchy


----------



## TheMoffinMan (May 6, 2022)

Virus said:


> Akainu is more lethal than Kaido imo


probably true, but he loses at pretty much every other aspect.

Reactions: Like 5


----------



## Canute87 (May 6, 2022)

Virus said:


> Akainu is more lethal than Kaido imo


Give kaido an axe.

Oda couldn't even give Kaido a proper weapon to show you how ridiculous he truly is.

he has in wano too and could have EASILY gotten wano grade weaponry.

Kaido really doesn't know what he had.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## featherine augustus (May 6, 2022)

Ebitan said:


> Ratio

Reactions: Funny 3


----------



## featherine augustus (May 6, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> The admirals are gone be a _breeze _then. How lucky for Luffy!
> 
> They’ve been hyped up for almost 20 years but them being fodderized seems entirely reasonable! Luffy might even one shot each of them. Right?


Zoro and sanji will defeat them very fast imo as they always do with their opponents ; and they are considerably stronger than them after their defeat.


----------



## featherine augustus (May 6, 2022)

Yumi Zoro said:


> Also why are people even using Kaido's feat to put him above the other top tier?
> 
> Shouldnt this be instead mean that the top tier in general are more stronger than WE though?
> 
> ...


How many top tiers can eat Adv COC + Adv COA KKG? How many can can take even a fraction of what kaido has taken? If kaido wants he can dodge attacks with FS but he choses not to for most part

Reactions: Like 1 | Friendly 1


----------



## Yumi Zoro (May 7, 2022)

featherine augustus said:


> How many top tiers can eat Adv COC + Adv COA KKG? How many can can take even a fraction of what kaido has taken? If kaido wants he can dodge attacks with FS but he choses not to for most part



I was just giving my though on the subject, also its unfair to asume the other top tier cant when WE have yet to see them in action.

Anyway, WE will know soon enough.

I'm not disproving Kaido's title too, know that I'm very neutral for now.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 7, 2022)

I really hate that y’all have made me have to argue against Kaido so much for the last four years because I really am a fan of his character. I’m damn near a Kaido fanboy, but at the end of the day 2 + 2 = 4, regardless of who says it.

Akainu’s role in the story cannot be denied, and you eat crayons if you genuinely believe Oda would have shown ANYONE fodderize Whitebeard at that point in the story regardless of how old or sick he was. The most he could have done for an opponent of Whitebeard at that point in the story is had him match him blow for blow, then survive a blindside from his strongest attack.

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Kroczilla (May 7, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> Akainu’s role in the story cannot be


And yet most folk keep denying the fact that he's destined to get bodied by Sabo

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 3 | Neutral 1


----------



## Seraphoenix (May 7, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> It’s wild that Oda said the series would only last a year if he was the protagonist. He must have amazing navigational capabilities and be really good at running and hiding or something. There’s no chance that he’s actually really strong, right?


You're deflecting because you know you have no answer for Oda saying Marco is admiral level. You sound like a whiny teenager who can't handle reality.

You're well aware that Oda said that in the context of a _*protagonist*_ being too strong. Anyone who uses that as an argument for Akainu being some supreme fighter is dumb af. BM could be PK in a week if Loki married Lola but plot prevents it because she isn't the protagonist. smarten up. 


Turrin said:


> Why is Marco being Admiral level matter. All that means is he could qualify for the role, doesn’t mean he wouldn’t get his ass beat by the stronger Admirals. Same thing with BM being a Yonko, doesn’t mean she wouldn’t get her ass beat by Kaidou.
> 
> Silly downplay argument.


No it means they are equals. I'm really not interested in your rationalisations Turrin of the 100 Ls. There is nothing to suggest that admirals are not extreme diff fights for each other. Marco is on that level. 

Silly headcanon argument. Expected nothing less from someone foolish enough to believe MF WB was the strongest character alive.

Reactions: Like 2 | Disagree 1


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 7, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> You're deflecting because you know you have no answer for Oda saying Marco is admiral level. You sound like a whiny teenager who can't handle reality.
> 
> You're well aware that Oda said that in the context of a _*protagonist*_ being too strong. Anyone who uses that as an argument for Akainu being some supreme fighter is dumb af. BM could be PK in a week if Loki married Lola but plot prevents it because she isn't the protagonist. smarten up.



It isn’t that you’re wrong, it’s that you’re so aggressively wrong that’s my problem with how you come off. I’m the captain of the Marco is underrated legion, check my resume.

Right we’re *dumb AF* because we believe the guy who held off an enraged Whitebeard, removed half of his face, killed the protagonists older brother and permanently scarred the protagonist (giving him the only noticeable change in design from part 1 to part 2) will be an important antagonist.

I wish y’all had read even a single other story prior to starting One Piece, I really do.

To everyone saying Sabo will defeat Akainu. I genuinely don’t think Luffy would leave Sabo alone with Akainu.


----------



## Kroczilla (May 7, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> To everyone saying Sabo will defeat Akainu. I genuinely don’t think Luffy would leave Sabo alone with Akainu


Luffy has a far bigger role to play in the story than mere vengeance. Heck none of his battles have been for the sake of vengeance. Why would his final battle be any different?

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 7, 2022)

Kroczilla said:


> Luffy has a far bigger role to play in the story than mere vengeance. Heck none of his battles have been for the sake of vengeance. Why would his final battle be any different?


It isn’t about vengeance, though I think it partially will be. What did Luffy say to Rob Lucci?

Something like “If I let you leave here, you’ll kill my friends, I need to keep my eyes on you” Luffy knows how lethal Akainu is, in fact, when he heard Akainu beat Aokiji, his first assumption was that Aokiji was dead.

I don’t see any scenario where Akainu is on the same island as Luffy and Luffy doesn’t immediately try to neutralize him before he reaches his crew/friends. Akainu would also probably try to kill every member of Luffy’s crew.

Oda always draws characters as children in the SBS’s. The two characters he drew that immediately stood out to me and made me wonder what happened in their youth were Blackbeard and Akainu. Those images are distinctly different than all the others.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Duhul10 (May 7, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Luffy, “His Haki is just as strong, but this heat is  several times what it was against Kaidou”
> 
> It’s that easy thanks to this chapter
> 
> It’s almost like Oda was writing with this very thing in mind, almost


This is just a disgusting assumption, coming from a disgustingly biased member. It's just false hope which the AW community keeps dragging for years. 
There is absolutely 0 proof of this happening, yet serious proof against it ( MF, statements, Akainu's bosses not even mentioning him in the big boys discussion and so on )


----------



## Duhul10 (May 7, 2022)

Omg, Akainu actually maintains a position above 20%, that's really impressive though, especially when it's Kaido whom you're up against...jeesh

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (May 7, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> Omg, Akainu actually maintains a position above 20%, that's really impressive though, especially when it's Kaido whom you're up against...jeesh


muh %!!1


----------



## Duhul10 (May 7, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> muh %!!1


You should be proud !


----------



## Turrin (May 7, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> You're deflecting because you know you have no answer for Oda saying Marco is admiral level. You sound like a whiny teenager who can't handle reality.
> 
> You're well aware that Oda said that in the context of a _*protagonist*_ being too strong. Anyone who uses that as an argument for Akainu being some supreme fighter is dumb af. BM could be PK in a week if Loki married Lola but plot prevents it because she isn't the protagonist. smarten up.
> 
> ...


The fact that every other rank in the Marines has individuals of vastly varying levels of strength as does literally every other position in the entire One Piece world suggests holding the same Rank/Title/Position doesn’t require equality or even nigh equality.

The only head-canon here is that everyone who can achieve Admiral rank has to be the same level as the strongest Admirals in history


----------



## Turrin (May 7, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> This is just a disgusting assumption, coming from a disgustingly biased member. It's just false hope which the AW community keeps dragging for years.
> There is absolutely 0 proof of this happening, yet serious proof against it ( MF, statements, Akainu's bosses not even mentioning him in the big boys discussion and so on )


The poster I respond to was asking for an assumption of how Oda could sell us on Akainu > Kaidou, so I gave him the easy one. Your only so triggered because you know it is that easy now.

I would say every major mini boss and major antagonist Luffy faces in P2 being >= the former one is all the evidence anyone should need to conclude it is very likely Akainu >= Kaidou, but keep chipping away down in the mines dull, everyone needs salt after all

Reactions: Like 1 | Lewd 1


----------



## Kroczilla (May 7, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> It isn’t about vengeance, though I think it partially will be. What did Luffy say to Rob Lucci?
> 
> Something like “If I let you leave here, you’ll kill my friends, I need to keep my eyes on you” Luffy knows how lethal Akainu is, in fact, when he heard Akainu beat Aokiji, his first assumption was that Aokiji was dead.
> 
> ...


Agree to disagree. Don't want to derail this thread.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Virus (May 7, 2022)

Akainu would turn Kaido into fish 'n chips

Reactions: Informative 3


----------



## Lawliet (May 7, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> BM could be PK in a week if Loki married Lola but plot prevents it because she isn't the protagonist. smarten up.


I think this is wrong. 

BM thinks she would've become PK, doesn't mean she would've been. 

Akainu's case is different. It came from Oda himself. 

You have to understand, BM is an idiot. Akainu leads the entire Marine forces. The oldest and most powerful public organization we know of. 

Oda could've easily made the statement say something like " if big mom was the MC she would be the PK easily". And Oda could've introduced that statement to us at the end of FI or on our way to WCI. 

Oda didn't though. Oda thinks that statement fits Akainu only. Whether the MC plot shield logic works in your opinion on any charatcer or not, doesn't really matter because at the end of the day, it's who Oda thinks it can work on. 

For example, you can't say if wapol was the MC he would be the PK. You'd have to change so many things about Wapol's charatcer, and if you do that... He's not wapol anymore is he? 

So long story short, Akainu can be the PK as he is right now. All he needs to do is decide that he's a pirate.

Reactions: Agree 3


----------



## Akainu (May 7, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> You're deflecting because you know you have no answer for Oda saying Marco is admiral level. You sound like a whiny teenager who can't handle reality.


Are you basing this off of the datebook? Said databook says only that he fought evenly with the Admirals during Marineford. That statement in no way confirms that he's Admiral-level. Indeed, it confirms only that he fought evenly with them during the war. Then there's Akainu confronting Marco, Croc, and many other commanders simultaneously, with Curiel somehow still ending up dead and Akainu continuing his rampage, which very likely would not have happened were Marco strictly Admiral-level. And that was clearly not a fresh Akainu. With the verbiage used, it could even be implying that he only fought evenly with them at particular moments, not even the entirety of the war.

Not to mention that the Deep Blue Datebook also said that "Vista seems to be able fight on par with Mihawk in a duel and might even be capable of a display exceeding even that" or "Vista showed his swordsmanship which is equal or superior to Mihawk's in this fight." But that would saliently and directly controvert Mihawk's title. But there you have it, Vista > Mihawk and may thus > Shanks regarding the swordsman appellation. But of course, who would believe that?

Reactions: Winner 3


----------



## Akainu (May 7, 2022)

HunterXHunted said:


> If Akainu was so certain he could take down Kaido and his crew, the Marines would have done so ages ago. For all of Kaidos power, hes about to be taken down by a rag tag pirate alliance and a few hundred samurai. The Marines have vastly superior manpower. Tells me one thing. Kaido is significantly above anyone in the Marine heirarchy


Sense this does not make. The Marines focusing solely on the Beast Pirates and a monster of Kaidou's caliber would leave their forces attenuated elsewhere. That would leave 3 yonkou, the many silver medalists and other formidable crews with too much latitude. Garp himself mentioned before Marineford that they should avoid tangling with both WB and Rayleigh so it does not compute that they would have done it long ago. There's also the fact that Akainu mentioned that, from the WG's perspective, Wano was an unknown military quantity and so there would be serious ambiguities to consider before launching such an operation. Kizaru innocuously offering to intercept the meeting between BM and Kaidou tells me one thing. Neither BM nor Kaidou are significantly above any of the Admirals or Garp.

Reactions: Agree 3


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 7, 2022)

Lawliet said:


> I think this is wrong.
> 
> BM thinks she would've become PK, doesn't mean she would've been.
> 
> ...


Right. As if Kaido and Big Mom haven’t been actively working towards being Pirate King.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Akainu (May 7, 2022)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> I like how delusional Admiral wankers say "I give Kaido the benefit of the doubt"
> It's almost as if the person he's in a vs match wasn't 2 shot by a dusty old bones Newgate and had to literally hole crawl his way while waiting for said Newgate to finally die before he showed his face again.


You would have a point if old WB was a complete and utter pussy. But he wasn't and thus you don't. It's not like Akainu (who had just murdered Ace) was blindsided by an enraged WB and still performed a hemispherectomy on him, took an island-splitter that destroyed marineford directly to the ribs, and still got back up later to confront Marco, numerous other commanders, Croc and Ivankov. And then, in said skirmish, he somehow executed Curiel with impunity and still got close to enough to a determined and fleeing Jinbei + Luffy to forever brand them both with a magmafist. Yup, Akainu must have been hiding that entire time in that crevice because we all know how he loathes confrontation. And as @MartyMcFly1 stated, it would have been incomparably uncharacteristic for Oda to show WB look even remotely bad during his greatest and dying moment, right? One could even surmise that the WB's rage momentarily nullified at least some of the physical toll his "dusty old bones" had taken as adrenaline unequivocally has that effect. Downplaying WB in order to downplay Akainu is a strategy not often seen, and for obvious reasons.

The reality is, not once did WB do any damage to an Admiral without first getting a blindside. Then there's that hysterical panel of Kizaru stepping on his bisento to casually shoot him and then continue on as though he had just shot some fodder and not the WSM.



Kroczilla said:


> And yet most folk keep denying the fact that he's destined to get bodied by Sabo


Because such a "fact" is less likely than him fighting Luffy. After all, Akainu is the man who not only murdered Ace but also imparted a forever reminder of said murder onto Luffy's chest. Luffy literally grabs the wound when Jinbei reveals Akainu has become Fleet Admiral of the new and more emboldened Marines.



featherine augustus said:


> *Zoro and sanji will defeat them very fast imo* as they always do with their opponents ; and they are considerably stronger than them after their defeat.


I will bet you $1,000 USD that this doesn't happen, featherine. Or we can, as two legendary members here long ago did, wager our accounts on it.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 3 | Neutral 1


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 7, 2022)

Ezekjuninor said:


> It's not like Kaido has any other attacks


13 pages and the opposition insists on comparing the flaming dragon attack to Akainu's magma as if that's the only thing Kaido will do. I'm honestly at a loss for words.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2 | Tier Specialist 1


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 7, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> 13 pages and the opposition insists on comparing the flaming dragon attack to Akainu's magma as if that's the only thing Kaido will do. I'm honestly at a loss for words.


Right, that’s the only thing that’s been said or the only point the other side has. Y’all make it too easy. And cats are congratulating you after this post like you really did something LMAO.




Akainu said:


> I will bet you $1,000 USD that this doesn't happen, featherine. Or we can, as two legendary members here long ago did, wager our accounts on it.


I’ll join in on this too.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Akainu (May 7, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> I’ll join in on this too.


Aye! The more the merrier!


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 7, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> Right, that’s the only thing that’s been said or the only point the other side has. Y’all make it too easy. And cats are congratulating you after this post like you really did something LMAO.


Reading comprehension my friend. I didn't say that's the _only_ point the other side brought up. I said they insist on bringing up an ability we've seen Kaido use literally once for the past 50+ chapters he's been fighting and comparing that to Akainu which is an observable fact. More than half the posts in this thread were making that comparison.

What I haven't read in this thread so far is a comparison between Kaido and Akainu in terms of

-strength
-speed
-durability
-weapons
-techniques
-strategy
-haki mastery


Etc.

Almost every other discussion has been about flaming dragon vs magma as if that's a "gotcha" to prove Akainu should win this because mAgMa>>>FiRe

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 1


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 7, 2022)

blueWaves said:


> I will say this, if Akainu > Kaido cause of the meta reason of next antagonist is stronger than the last, he's going to to have to make a compelling case.
> 
> Because Kaido showings are insane. All three adv. versions of Haki, Mythical Zoan DF that gives him the ability to transform into a Dragon and Dragon/Oni Hybrid, to Fly and to have 3 elemental attacks in Fire/Wind/Lightning. One of the most physically opposing beings..
> 
> Oda has his work cut out to make readers believe Akainu > Kaido.


It would honestly be shitty Majin Buu saga levels of writing if Akainu turns out to be strong enough to mid dif Kaido in the future.

People _think_ they want that, but they really don't deep down if they take the time to think about it. The series power scaling would just get more and more ridiculous, especially if Imu is secretly above yonko/admiral level. We're gonna end up with people casually destroying continents end of series if this keeps up, which means that the ancient weapons are kind of pointless if individual people have higher damage output than them. It would be like if Darth Vader was strong enough to destroy planets with force lightning, wtf would be the point of the death star...???

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


----------



## Akainu (May 7, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> It would honestly be shitty Majin Buu saga levels of writing if Akainu turns out to be strong enough to mid dif Kaido in the future.


This is almost definitely not going to happen. I can say with almost apodictic certitude that nobody will or could ever mid-diff current Kaidou. He's the most imposing character we've ever seen and that's including absolute freaks like BM, WB and Akainu.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 7, 2022)

Akainu said:


> This is almost definitely not going to happen. I can say with almost apodictic certitude that nobody will or could ever mid-diff current Kaidou. He's the most imposing character we've ever seen and that's including the absolute freaks like BM, WB and Akainu.


Tell that to guys like Turrin who keep insisting that the story will follow typical shonen trends where the next antagonist will be 2-3x stronger than the last. This is somehow "evidence" Akainu will be able to mid diff Kaido end of series. That's like their main argument in this thread along with magma>fire.

13 pages of this. Unbelievable. Feats, powers, and abilities be damned.


----------



## featherine augustus (May 7, 2022)

Akainu said:


> I will bet you $1,000 USD that this doesn't happen, featherine. Or we can, as two legendary members here long ago did, wager our accounts on it.


As in they won't fight zoro/sanji?


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 7, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> Reading comprehension my friend. I didn't say that's the _only_ point the other side brought up. I said they insist on bringing up an ability we've seen Kaido use literally once for the past 50+ chapters he's been fighting and comparing that to Akainu which is an observable fact. More than half the posts in this thread were making that comparison.
> 
> What I haven't read in this thread so far is a comparison between Kaido and Akainu in terms of
> 
> ...


Let me be clear cause y’all love to do this: You’re estimation about who has better stats in any category is a guess at best.

You go into every Character Vs character thread and say some shit like “Character 1 has better strength, speed, haki, is better in every way, so character 1 is stronger” as if any of that is true or has been proven. Let me ask you, does Kaido have better stats than EoS Blackbeard as well? If not explain to me why you think so.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Akainu (May 7, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> Tell that to guys like Turrin who keep insisting that the story will follow typical shonen trends where the next antagonist will be 2-3x stronger than the last. This is somehow "evidence" Akainu will be able to mid diff Kaido end of series. That's like their main argument in this thread along with magma>fire.
> 
> 13 pages of this. Unbelievable.


Turrin is alright, subsequent villains are very prevalently stronger than their predecessors, it is a shonen trope as old as time. However, I must disagree if he believes that any villain after Kaidou will be 2-3x as strong. Kaidou is simply too powerful for that, in my humble opinion. A character being 3x stronger than Kaidou would be fucking absurd. Credibility be damned at that point.

Reactions: Agree 3


----------



## Akainu (May 7, 2022)

featherine augustus said:


> As in they won't fight zoro/sanji?


As in the fights will not be swiftly concluded or done very fast.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 7, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> It would honestly be shitty Majin Buu saga levels of writing if Akainu turns out to be strong enough to mid dif Kaido in the future.
> 
> People _think_ they want that, but they really don't deep down if they take the time to think about it. The series power scaling would just get more and more ridiculous, especially if Imu is secretly above yonko/admiral level. We're gonna end up with people casually destroying continents end of series if this keeps up, which means that the ancient weapons are kind of pointless if individual people have higher damage output than them. It would be like if Darth Vader was strong enough to destroy planets with force lightning, wtf would be the point of the death star...???


This would just be an example of you being mad that you’re bad at predicting things if this ends up coming true. I wouldn’t even say Akainu will end up being that much above Kaido, but he will be stronger.

It’s wild to me that you’d go as far as to say if Akainu is stronger that would be bad writing. As if the strongest enemy Luffy will ever face being defeated well before the story is over wouldn’t eliminate nearly all tension in the story.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## featherine augustus (May 7, 2022)

Akainu said:


> As in the fights will not be swiftly concluded or done very fast.


When I said that I was comparing them with regards to luffy's fight like I bet it will be shorter than entirety of Kaido fight

They being side bosses oda always focus way less time on zoro/sanji's opponents


----------



## featherine augustus (May 7, 2022)

Akainu said:


> Turrin is alright, subsequent villains are very prevalently stronger than their predecessors, it is a shonen trope as old as time. However, I must disagree if he believes that any villain after Kaidou will be 2-3x as strong. Kaidou is simply too powerful for that, in my humble opinion. A character being 3x stronger than Kaidou would be fucking absurd. Credibility be damned at that point.


--Ignoring the feats Kaido himself in strength considers Roger , Prime WB , Shanks etc his rivals and the ones who can fight on par with him.

--That is to say the power difference is very small and Kaido knows about their complete strength as he was in god valley war 

--Imu is going to be an outlier and BB with 3 DFs will surpass everyone even old gen


----------



## Kroczilla (May 7, 2022)

Akainu said:


> Because such a "fact" is less likely than him fighting Luffy. After all, Akainu is the man who not only murdered Ace but also imparted a forever reminder of said murder onto Luffy's chest. Luffy literally grabs the wound when Jinbei reveals Akainu has become Fleet Admiral of the new and more emboldened Marines.


Agree to disagree


----------



## Akainu (May 7, 2022)

Kroczilla said:


> Agree to disagree


Of course, but what makes you think Sabo is more likely to be Akainu's final opponent?


----------



## Germa 66 (May 7, 2022)

Akainu destroys the Beasts Pirates


----------



## Akainu (May 7, 2022)

featherine augustus said:


> --Ignoring the feats Kaido himself in strength considers Roger , Prime WB , Shanks etc his rivals and the ones who can fight on par with him.
> 
> --That is to say the power difference is very small and Kaido knows about their complete strength as he was in god valley war
> 
> --Imu is going to be an outlier and BB with 3 DFs will surpass everyone even old gen


- It's not abundantly clear as to exactly what he means here as it's obvious BM is capable of fighting him. Not to mention it'd be highly unlikely that neither Garp (especially considering his presence at God Valley), Sengoku (Roger considered him a considerable opponent) nor the Admirals could not capably fight him as well. Kizaru would not have offered to intervene between their meet-up if he blatantly was incapable of fighting Kaidou.

- Im is interesting and they *might* be an outlier. And even when he finally procures that 3rd DF, I still don't believe BB is doing any better than ~extreme-diffing Kaidou. Kaidou is simply too ridiculous. I do agree that EOS BB surpasses the old-gen, but not by any considerable amount.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## featherine augustus (May 7, 2022)

Akainu said:


> - It's not abundantly clear as to exactly what he means here as it's obvious BM is capable of fighting him. Not to mention it'd be highly unlikely that neither Garp (especially considering his presence at God Valley), Sengoku (Roger considered him a considerable opponent) nor the Admirals could not capably fight him as well. Kizaru would not have offered to intervene between their meet-up if he blatantly was incapable of fighting Kaidou.
> 
> - Im is interesting and they *might* be an outlier. And even when he finally procures that 3rd DF, I still don't believe BB is doing any better than ~extreme-diffing Kaidou. Kaidou is simply too ridiculous. I do agree that EOS BB surpasses the old-gen, but not by any considerable amount.


Oh I don't mean Admirals are not on par with him but even akainu won't be above roger or Prime WB.

That is to say both kaido and Akainu are on same level and not tiers apart as lurrin claims

Also I don't want to talk about BM honestly. She was a massive disappointment


----------



## Akainu (May 7, 2022)

featherine augustus said:


> When I said that I was comparing them with regards to luffy's fight like I bet it will be shorter than entirety of Kaido fight
> 
> They being side bosses oda always focus way less time on zoro/sanji's opponents


Oh okay, it seemed as though your were implying they would steamroll the Admirals without eliciting more than a few beads of sweat, which again, they will not. We should also consider the distinct possibility that because they are Admirals, i.e., very prominent characters, that their fights will be longer than normal.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Grinningfox (May 7, 2022)

Y’all Akainu bros better be right with the way y’all talkin cuz lol

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Akainu (May 7, 2022)

featherine augustus said:


> Oh I don't mean Admirals are not on par with him but even akainu won't be above roger or Prime WB.
> 
> That is to say both kaido and Akainu are on same level and not tiers apart as lurrin claims
> 
> Also I don't want to talk about BM honestly. She was a massive disappointment


I'm unsure on this, I think EOS Akainu will be right there with Kaidou, Roger and Primebeard but I'm not sure I'll have him above them. Depends on how Oda handles Akainu v. Luffy, but if Akainu isn't quite at that level it certainly wouldn't be remiss. BB is shaping up to be the ultimate villain whereas Akainu has a more penultimate feel to him. And then there's Im, who is an unspecified quantity but could absolutely be at the aforesaid level or potentially above it.


----------



## Akainu (May 7, 2022)

Grinningfox said:


> Y’all Akainu bros better be right with the way y’all talkin cuz lol


If we're not, we're not. Who gives a damn? Akainu's portrayal and actions indicate he is an extremely powerful and relevant character. He killed Ace and is clearly meant to represent the most prominent anti-pirate faction in the manga. Hazarding that he will be at Kaidou's level isn't absurd or anything. He's a top-tier monster who hasn't done anything combat-wise in the manga in over ten years, I'm sure there's more to see from him.


----------



## Grinningfox (May 7, 2022)

Akainu said:


> If we're not, we're not. Who gives a damn? Akainu's portrayal and actions indicate he is an extremely powerful and relevant character. He killed Ace and is clearly meant to represent the most prominent anti-pirate faction in the manga. Hazarding that he will be at Kaidou's level isn't absurd or anything. He's a top-tier monster who hasn't done anything combat-wise in the manga in over ten years, I'm sure there's more to see from him.


Expecting Akainu to be strong is fine and even reasonable, it’s the extremes I’m seeing that are making me lol.

Also I think you guys would “give a damn”.


----------



## Akainu (May 7, 2022)

Grinningfox said:


> Expecting Akainu to be strong is fine and even reasonable, it’s the extremes I’m seeing that are making me lol.
> 
> Also I think you guys would “give a damn”.


More than reasonable, it has been established he's one off the strongest characters in the series. indeed, he is extremely strong. To what extremes are you referring? 

And nah, I'm going to sleep like a fucking baby if Akainu isn't as powerful as these "extremes" you speak of might suggest.


----------



## Grinningfox (May 7, 2022)

Akainu said:


> More than reasonable, it has been established he's one off the strongest characters in the series. indeed, he is extremely strong. To what extremes are you referring?
> 
> And nah, I'm going to sleep like a fucking baby if Akainu isn't as powerful as these "extremes" you speak of might suggest.


Just look at a Turrin post

Uh huh

Reactions: Funny 4


----------



## Akainu (May 7, 2022)

Grinningfox said:


> Just look at a Turrin post
> 
> Uh huh


Turrin's opinion is merely that, his opinion. Don't let it abrade you.

Lol brah, I'm not sure if this is some kind of projection, but we're talking about a fictional character here. When Akainu dies, I'll put my pants on one leg at a time and go about my day as I would any other. Get real.

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> Let me be clear cause y’all love to do this: You’re estimation about who has better stats in any category is a guess at best.
> 
> You go into every Character Vs character thread and say some shit like “Character 1 has better strength, speed, haki, is better in every way, so character 1 is stronger” as if any of that is true or has been proven. Let me ask you, does Kaido have better stats than EoS Blackbeard as well? If not explain to me why you think so.


We don't have to guess. We can simply look at manga scans to determine things like powers, speed, durability, technique, strategy, etc. It's far easier to determine those things than to argue and speculate how EOS Akainu will look which literally none of us have a clue about. Why has _that_ been the focal point of the discussion instead of things that are far more concrete?

What kind of bizarre question is that? How on earth can I know how Kaido's stats are compared to EOS Blackbeard? Ask me about Kaido vs current Blackbeard and it's a far more sensible conversation.

As for Kaido vs Akainu, we do not need to guess who has better stats. We know for a fact Kaido is leagues ahead of him in durability. He has future sight and easily dodged snakemans punches while drunk which means he's obviously very fast and can definitely tag Akainu if a dying sick old Whitebeard can sneak up on Akainu and sucker punch him. We know Kaido is a powerhouse on offense and can certainly damage Akainu if he lands a clean hit since he has both advanced armament and conquerors and KOd the very tanky Gear 4 Luffy and took out Oden. He also killed a CP0 agent who has both tekkai and armament. 

Long range attacks, battle smarts, and lethal finishing moves I'd give Akainu an edge. But overall, Kaido clearly has more advantages in stats and has WAY more feats to analyze.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> This would just be an example of you being mad that you’re bad at predicting things if this ends up coming true. I wouldn’t even say Akainu will end up being that much above Kaido, but he will be stronger.
> 
> It’s wild to me that you’d go as far as to say if Akainu is stronger that would be bad writing. As if the strongest enemy Luffy will ever face being defeated well before the story is over wouldn’t eliminate nearly all tension in the story.


It has nothing to do with me being mad at predicting things. That would be fucking stupid if we got characters casually destroying continents and strong enough to easily beat yonko level characters. Spare me the absurd DBZ power creep.

You didn't even address what I said. I said the reason Akainu suddenly become 2-3x stronger than Kaido is shitty writing is because it would render the ancient weapons kind of fucking pointless. In Arabasta crocodile was getting a boner talking about how the weapons were world ending doomsday devices that could destroy islands. You're telling me you want there to be multiple antagonists that can easily do that themselves? Wtf does the government need to find the ancient weapons for then? Luffy can be competitive with Akainu without needing to make Akainu get an absurd power boost.

I haven't been wrong in my predictions btw. I predicted Kaido beating Luffy again and I also predicted CP0 interfering. I said kid and law beat BM when you had dozens of people calling me and others crazy for saying that. If Oda decides to make Akainu that ridiculous I won't be mad because I didn't predict it, I'd be mad knowing OP is about to end up facing the same fate as so many other shonen with horrible power creep.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> We don't have to guess. We can simply look at manga scans to determine things like powers, speed, durability, technique, strategy, etc. It's far easier to determine those things than to argue and speculate how EOS Akainu will look which literally none of us have a clue about. Why has _that_ been the focal point of the discussion instead of things that are far more concrete?
> 
> What kind of bizarre question is that? How on earth can I know how Kaido's stats are compared to EOS Blackbeard? Ask me about Kaido vs current Blackbeard and it's a far more sensible conversation.
> 
> ...


In my opinion, the best way to determine a characters power level is by their plot significance and portrayal, NOT whatever you think each individual feat means.

Everyone does some form of this, they just aren’t applying it universally. Let’s play a game, do you believe ANY antagonist we see from now on will be stronger than Kaido is? If your answer is ‘YES’ explain to me who and why?

Even using feats, you’re choosing to ignore Akainu’s performance against Whitebeard and his commanders.




MrAnalogies said:


> It has nothing to do with me being mad at predicting things. That would be fucking stupid if we got characters casually destroying continents and strong enough to easily beat yonko level characters. Spare me the absurd DBZ power creep.
> 
> You didn't even address what I said. I said the reason Akainu suddenly become 2-3x stronger than Kaido is shitty writing is because it would render the ancient weapons kind of fucking pointless. In Arabasta crocodile was getting a boner talking about how the weapons were world ending doomsday devices that could destroy islands. You're telling me you want there to be multiple antagonists that can easily do that themselves? Wtf does the government need to find the ancient weapons for then? Luffy can be competitive with Akainu without needing to make Akainu get an absurd power boost.
> 
> I haven't been wrong in my predictions btw. I predicted Kaido beating Luffy again and I also predicted CP0 interfering. I said kid and law beat BM when you had dozens of people calling me and others crazy for saying that. If Oda decides to make Akainu that ridiculous I won't be mad because I didn't predict it, I'd be mad knowing OP is about to end up facing the same fate as so many other shonen with horrible power creep.


Everything you’ve written here is based on the idea that I claimed Akainu would he 2-3x stronger than Kaido. I also never said Akainu would be able to easily beat Kaido, but I suspect he will be stronger. Prior to becoming Pirate King is when Luffy should face the hardest obstacles he encounters within the story. Just because y’all saw Kaido and dug your feet into the sand that doesn’t mean the threats Luffy and the Strawhats face shouldn’t get progressively more dangerous. You think Oda cares about maintaining your tier list?

What you’ve basically written here is “Kaido could destroy an island!!! Nobody in the series should ever be stronger than him or this is STUPID POWER CREEP!!”


----------



## Piecesis (May 8, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> In my opinion, the best way to determine a characters power level is by their plot significance and portrayal, NOT whatever you think each individual feat means.
> 
> Everyone does some form of this, they just aren’t applying it universally. Let’s play a game, do you believe ANY antagonist we see from now on will be stronger than Kaido is? If your answer is ‘YES’ explain to me who and why?
> 
> Even using feats, you’re choosing to ignore Akainu’s performance against Whitebeard and his commanders.


Blowing up the face of a dying WB aint shit in comparison to what Kaido has pulled off in this arc. Plot relevance does matter and I think most people would agree Akainu's plot relevance isn't as significant as his fans warrent, whether that's true or not is up to the individual, I personally don't care about that aspect. 

As of now I do know that Akainus feats aren't close to kaido, so any speculation of Akainu's future power is nothing but speculation.

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 8, 2022)

Piecesis said:


> Blowing up the face of a dying WB aint shit in comparison to what Kaido has pulled off in this arc. Plot relevance does matter and I think most people would agree Akainu's plot relevance isn't as significant as his fans warrent, whether that's true or not is up to the individual, I personally don't care about that aspect.
> 
> As of now I do know that Akainus feats aren't close to kaido, so any speculation of Akainu's future power is nothing but speculation.


This is the idea that you all cling to. That Akainu should have fodderized Whitebeard because he was sick and dying. At that point in the story Whitebeard was the strongest character as far as we knew, Oda would have NEVER shown Whitebeard getting fodderized no matter what state he was in.

When Whitebeard fought Roger and Roger was damn near in his deathbed, why didn’t Whitebeard fodderize him?

Akainu’s plot relevance isn’t significant? WHAT?! I need you to define plot significance for us because killing the protagonists family and permanently scarring the protagonist is important plot significance in any story you can think of. Are you okay?


----------



## Piecesis (May 8, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> This is the idea that you all cling to. That Akainu should have fodderized Whitebeard because he was sick and dying. At that point in the story Whitebeard was the strongest character as far as we knew, Oda would have NEVER shown Whitebeard getting fodderized no matter what state he was in.
> 
> When Whitebeard fought Roger and Roger was damn near in his deathbed, why didn’t Whitebeard fodderize him?


WB wasn't the WSM in the arc he was fighting though? It's already stated in the same arc by Marco that he can't be WSM forever since he couldn't use his haki properly that whole arc. 

It's irrelevant if Oda doesn't want WB to be fodderised or not, Akainu hasn't shown anything to warrant what you guys think of him, it doesn't get more simple than that. You can speculate all day how strong he might be after the two year timeskip or whatever, but for now that's just headcanon.


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> In my opinion, the best way to determine a characters power level is by their plot significance and portrayal, NOT whatever you think each individual feat means.
> 
> Everyone does some form of this, they just aren’t applying it universally. Let’s play a game, do you believe ANY antagonist we see from now on will be stronger than Kaido is? If your answer is ‘YES’ explain to me who and why?
> 
> Even using feats, you’re choosing to ignore Akainu’s performance against Whitebeard and his commanders.


For the 2nd time, I'm not using what I "think" their stats are. I can look at the manga to figure that out. It's pretty simple. 

I don't know if future antagonists will be stronger than Kaido and neither do you. We have scans of Akainu and have seen him in action. Based on what we've seen, Akainu is at a disadvantage in feats, stats, portrayal, etc. Don't ask me about future villains because they do not currently exist. 

How are you going to tell me I'm ignoring Akainus feats when I literally mention his feats and analyzed them in the post you quoted?




MartyMcFly1 said:


> at I claimed Akainu would he 2-3x stronger than Kaido. I also never said Akainu would be able to easily beat Kaido, but I suspect he will be stronger. Prior to becoming Pirate King is when Luffy should face the hardest obstacles he encounters within the story. Just because y’all saw Kaido and dug your feet into the sand that doesn’t mean the threats Luffy and the Strawhats face shouldn’t get progressively more dangerous. You think Oda cares about maintaining your tier list?
> 
> What you’ve basically written here is “Kaido could destroy an island!!! Nobody in the series should ever be stronger than him or this is STUPID POWER CREEP!!”


What part of I don't give a shit about how strong you think Akainu in the future will be do you not understand? The thread is about Kaido vs current Akainu.

This has nothing to do with Oda being in line with any imaginary tier list. I already explained why it would be bad writing _twice_, and for the _second_ time you've ignored what I wrote and decided to attack a straw man. Address what I ACTUALLY SAID or fuck off.


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> For the 2nd time, I'm not using what I "think" their stats are. I can look at the manga to figure that out. It's pretty simple.
> 
> I don't know if future antagonists will be stronger than Kaido and neither do you. We have scans of Akainu and have seen him in action. Based on what we've seen, Akainu is at a disadvantage in feats, stats, portrayal, etc. Don't ask me about future villains because they do not currently exist.
> 
> ...


You don’t give a shit about how strong I think Akainu will be? Then what exactly is the point of you even coming into this thread?? So we can watch you worship Kaido?

Let’s try this again: Do you believe anyone in the story will be stronger than Kaido after this arc? If your answer is ‘YES’ which characters and why do you think that?

Also, control your emotions. You’re a man aren’t you?


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

Piecesis said:


> Blowing up the face of a dying WB aint shit in comparison to what Kaido has pulled off in this arc. Plot relevance does matter and I think most people would agree Akainu's plot relevance isn't as significant as his fans warrent, whether that's true or not is up to the individual, I personally don't care about that aspect.
> 
> As of now I do know that Akainus feats aren't close to kaido, so any speculation of Akainu's future power is nothing but speculation.


Thank you. I don't get why the fuck we keep talking in circles about plot relevancy and what people "think" a character will be able to do in the future instead of just discussing how the characters are right now.


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> Thank you. I don't get why the fuck we keep talking in circles about plot relevancy and what people "think" a character will be able to do in the future instead of just discussing how the characters are right now.


Because there would be ZERO point to any threads like this if the only thing we came here to do was confirm ‘Akainu has less panel time showing less feats than Kaido, he is weaker’

Look up the word ‘prediction’ and then come back to this thread and try again.


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> You don’t give a shit about how strong I think Akainu will be? Then what exactly is the point of you even coming into this thread?? So we can watch you worship Kaido?
> 
> Let’s try this again: Do you believe anyone in the story will be stronger than Kaido after this arc? If your answer is ‘YES’ which characters and why do you think that?


Let's try this again: who do you think wins, CURRENT Akainu CURRENT Kaido? That's what the fucking thread is about. 

When you're ready to answer that question we can get back in topic. Don't go demanding that I answer stupid irrelevant questions when you kept ignoring my posts and putting words in my mouth. 

The audacity.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> Let's try this again: who do you think wins, CURRENT Akainu CURRENT Kaido? That's what the fucking thread is about.
> 
> When you're ready to answer that question we can get back in topic. Don't go demanding that I answer stupid irrelevant questions when you kept ignoring my posts and putting words in my mouth.
> 
> The audacity.


Current Akainu is stronger. If the next time we see Akainu he’s stronger than Kaido without there being some sort of timeskip then you’re wrong flat out.




Piecesis said:


> WB wasn't the WSM in the arc he was fighting though? It's already stated in the same arc by Marco that he can't be WSM forever since he couldn't use his haki properly that whole arc.
> 
> It's irrelevant if Oda doesn't want WB to be fodderised or not, Akainu hasn't shown anything to warrant what you guys think of him, it doesn't get more simple than that. You can speculate all day how strong he might be after the two year timeskip or whatever, but for now that's just headcanon.


I think he was stronger than Kaido even in part 1 of the story.

I’ll try this with you too: Do you believe anyone in the story post Wano will be stronger than Kaido? If your answer is ‘YES’ tell me which characters and why you think that.


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> Because there would be ZERO point to any threads like this if the only thing we came here to do was confirm ‘Akainu has less panel time showing less feats than Kaido, he is weaker’
> 
> Look up the word ‘prediction’ and then come back to this thread and try again.


Not one fucking person in this thread said kaido wins because he had more panel time. You are as dense as a boulder if that's what you gathered from all these posts. 

Kaido's feats, the things he's actually done on panel, have been more impressive overall compared to Akainu. That's why he's winning the poll. Feats are more important to a vs discussion than these idiotic story relevance/portrayal discussions.

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> Current Akainu is stronger. If the next time we see Akainu he’s stronger than Kaido without there being some sort of timeskip then you’re wrong flat out.


No he isn't. Current Akainu isn't faster, stronger, or more durable, Kaido is. Kaido has demonstrated better haki feats too. Literally the only thing Akainu has over Kaido is lethal long range magma attacks and even that may not be a good enough equalizer since Kaido apparently has very high heat resistance.



MartyMcFly1 said:


> I think he was stronger than Kaido even in part 1 of the story.


Then you're crazy. There is nothing in the story to remotely suggest this. Kaido definitely isn't getting owned by a dying sick old Whitebeard with just 2 punches.



MartyMcFly1 said:


> I’ll try this with you too: Do you believe anyone in the story post Wano will be stronger than Kaido? If your answer is ‘YES’ tell me which characters and why you think that.


Who.

Fucking.

Knows.


----------



## Piecesis (May 8, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> I think he was stronger than Kaido even in part 1 of the story.
> 
> I’ll try this with you too: Do you believe anyone in the story post Wano will be stronger than Kaido? If your answer is ‘YES’ tell me which characters and why you think that.


Blackbeard. Because he's going to have three awakenings, minimum two of the strongest DFs in the verse, also whatever haki benefits he gets on top of that like AdCoC etc.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 8, 2022)

Piecesis said:


> Blackbeard. Because he's going to have three awakenings, minimum two of the strongest DFs in the verse, also whatever haki benefits he gets on top of that like AdCoC etc.


But we haven’t seen Blackbeard use any of those things so why are you so sure he’ll have them? Also, Blackbeard doesn’t have any feats on Kaido’s level.


----------



## Piecesis (May 8, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> But we haven’t seen Blackbeard use any of those things so why are you so sure he’ll have them? Also, Blackbeard doesn’t have any feats on Kaido’s level.


You asked a question, I answered it, that simple. 

You asked who I thought was going to be above Kaido late game, I gave you my opinion. The thread maker never asked who you thought was going to be above Kaido and why, they asked you who wins between the two. Difference. If you asked me who wins between blackbeard and Kaido now, I'd say Kaido.


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> Not one fucking person in this thread said kaido wins because he had more panel time. You are as dense as a boulder if that's what you gathered from all these posts.
> 
> Kaido's feats, the things he's actually done on panel, have been more impressive overall compared to Akainu. That's why he's winning the poll. Feats are more important to a vs discussion than these idiotic story relevance/portrayal discussions.


We have seen more of Kaido than we have of Akainu, so of course he’ll have more feats as a result of that.

No, in my opinion plot will always point you in the right direction when trying to determine a characters power level. Also, the level of emotion you’re showing is pathetic.


MrAnalogies said:


> No he isn't. Current Akainu isn't faster, stronger, or more durable, Kaido is. Kaido has demonstrated better haki feats too. Literally the only thing Akainu has over Kaido is lethal long range magma attacks and even that may not be a good enough equalizer since Kaido apparently has very high heat resistance.
> 
> 
> Then you're crazy. There is nothing in the story to remotely suggest this. Kaido definitely isn't getting owned by a dying sick old Whitebeard with just 2 punches.
> ...


So you can’t think for yourself? You don’t have any predictions about where the story will likely go? Then why am I even talking to you and why are you in a thread thread where we’re trying to predict something telling me that I am not allowed to predict things?

Also, every single thing you said in your first paragraph is speculation at best. We haven’t seen Akainu do anything in part 2 of the story. Lack of feats doesn’t mean you can assign your own feats in place and try to limit what we say to what you’ve decided.




Piecesis said:


> You asked a question, I answered it, that simple.
> 
> You asked who I thought was going to be above Kaido late game, I gave you my opinion. The thread maker never asked who you thought was going to be above Kaido and why, they asked you who wins between the two. Difference. If you asked me who wins between blackbeard and Kaido now, I'd say Kaido.


That’s a cop out. Every time someone shows a new feat in the story, you can’t just go back to threads where we’re discussing power levels and try to argue that the character achieved that power level after you made your prediction so you’re correct about everything.

The only thing that would satisfy that requirement is if Akainu was on Wano right now fighting Kaido, other than that you can always just say “He wasn’t as strong back then” and there will be no way to check verify or technically disprove what you’re saying, but that isn’t the point of these sort of threads.


----------



## Piecesis (May 8, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> That’s a cop out. Every time someone shows a new feat in the story, you can’t just go back to threads where we’re discussing power levels and try to argue that the character achieved that power level after you made your prediction so you’re correct about everything.
> 
> The only thing that would satisfy that requirement is if Akainu was on Wano right now fighting Kaido, other than that you can always just say “He wasn’t as strong back then” and there will be no way to check verify or technically disprove what you’re saying, but that isn’t the point of these sort of threads.


You only see it as a cop-out because you failed in your silly gotcha moment, pretty sad Akainu fans don't understand the difference between who is stronger now and who is stronger later, oh wells, you do you I suppose. 

It's not that "He wasn't as strong back then" It's moreso "He didn't have the feats to backup all the claims he has back then"

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 8, 2022)

Piecesis said:


> You only see it as a cop-out because you failed in your silly gotcha moment, pretty sad Akainu fans don't understand the difference between who is stronger now and who is stronger later, oh wells, you do you I suppose.
> 
> It's not that "He wasn't as strong back then" It's moreso "He didn't have the feats to backup all the claims he has back then"


Nothing about that was silly, you literally made a prediction based on where you think the story will go. You’re basically saying that you’re allowed to do that but I am not. You can always retroactively be proven right because certain things haven’t happened yet and you can always just say the character got stronger since you were wrong.

In 2014 I could say, Doflamingo is stronger than Big Mom, then when WCI starts I could say “Doflamingo _was_ stronger at the time I made my prediction, Big Mom just got stronger since then”


----------



## MrPopo (May 8, 2022)

Sabo isn't fighting Akainu, throughout all of one piece Luffy is the one to take on and defeat villians that people have vendetta's against. 

The one the guy that luffy has personal beef with and Luffy's not going to fight him 


Sabo doesn't even hold a grudge he just wants to help Luffy


----------



## Kroczilla (May 8, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> throughout all of one piece Luffy is the one to take on and defeat villians that people have vendetta's against.





MrPopo said:


> The one the guy that luffy has personal beef with and Luffy's not going to fight him


You do see how these points work against your thoughts, right? Luffy doesn't fight and defeat villains based on personal vendetta period. Not sure why that precedent would change come EoS


----------



## MrPopo (May 8, 2022)

Kroczilla said:


> You do see how these points work against your thoughts, right? Luffy doesn't fight and defeat villains based on personal vendetta period. Not sure why that precedent would change come EoS


 Luffy never had a personal grudge against previous villians the only other villian that luffy has grudge against is Blackbeard and we all know Luffy is defeating him.


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> We have seen more of Kaido than we have of Akainu, so of course he’ll have more feats as a result of that.
> 
> No, in my opinion plot will always point you in the right direction when trying to determine a characters power level. Also, the level of emotion you’re showing is pathetic.


Ok, so if Kaido has more feats that are more impressive the winner should be obvious. Plot relevance doesn't have shit to do with what character X can do compared to character Y. 

The only thing pathetic is you arguing for 15 pages about plot in a vs thread and asking me about eos characters that do not currently exist. It's also pathetic to use straw man arguments instead of addressing what someone actually wrote.



MartyMcFly1 said:


> So you can’t think for yourself? You don’t have any predictions about where the story will likely go? Then why am I even talking to you and why are you in a thread thread where we’re trying to predict something telling me that I am not allowed to predict things?


I didn't say you aren't allowed to predict anything. My god you are dense. You're talking to a guy who has literally made like 4-5 threads predicting what will happen next.

How strong you think Akainu will be in the future and how you think CURRENT Akainu is compared to Kaido are two entirely separate conversations that have nothing to do with each other.




MartyMcFly1 said:


> Also, every single thing you said in your first paragraph is speculation at best. We haven’t seen Akainu do anything in part 2 of the story. Lack of feats doesn’t mean you can assign your own feats in place and try to limit what we say to what you’ve decided.


If there is a lack of feats for a character then you go off of what we've seen or it's tough luck. I'm not going to just assume Akainu has power, durability, speed, and haki mastery similar to Kaido simply because we've had a time skip and because of his sToRy ReLeVaNcE. That's not how that works.


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> Ok, so if Kaido has more feats that are more impressive the winner should be obvious. Plot relevance doesn't have shit to do with what character X can do compared to character Y.
> 
> The only thing pathetic is you arguing for 15 pages about plot in a vs thread and asking me about eos characters that do not currently exist. It's also pathetic to use straw man arguments instead of addressing what someone actually wrote.
> 
> ...


When we discuss character vs character in your mind what’s being asked is “Who has more feats” when what is being asked is “who is likely to be stronger”. So nobody should ever be able to predict the power of any character we haven’t seen go all out. So, anyone who thinks Xebec, EoS Blackbeard or Imu will be stronger than Kaido is dense, because MrAnalogies can’t predict things. Correct?




Kroczilla said:


> You do see how these points work against your thoughts, right? Luffy doesn't fight and defeat villains based on personal vendetta period. Not sure why that precedent would change come EoS


You don’t think Luffy will ever fight someone he has a personal grudge against? When Luffy was fighting Don Chinjao, Chinjao insulting Ace angered Luffy and he defeated him right after. Based on what we’ve seen of Akainu’s personality, do you believe he will hold back on shit talking Ace to Luffy?

A personal grudge for scarring Luffy is different in my mind to a personal grudge against someone for harming someone Luffy cares about. Luffy doesn’t have a problem taking vengeance, as we saw when the Franky family beat up Usopp.


----------



## Kroczilla (May 8, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> Luffy never had a personal grudge against previous villians the only other villian that luffy has grudge against is Blackbeard and we all know Luffy is defeating him.




The evidence seems to suggest that Luffy's grudge with Black beard is not a driving factor for him.


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> When we discuss character vs character in your mind what’s being asked is “Who has more feats” when what is being asked is “who is likely to be stronger”. So nobody should ever be able to predict the power of any character we haven’t seen go all out. So, anyone who thinks Xebec, EoS Blackbeard or Imu will be stronger than Kaido is dense, because MrAnalogies can’t predict things. Correct?


Vs threads don't have shit to do with who can predict how the story will go. I can't believe I actually had to type that sentence. I have been debating on vs threads on and off for years and you're literally the first person I've _ever_ had this argument with. 

 

My criteria is to figure out a ballpark estimate of how strong the two characters are, compare stats/abilities) feats/skill, and then make my case for who I think will win. That is ALL I care about. I do not give a shit what plot relevance character x or y has and I am not going to speculate how strong either character will be eos when there is a shortage of feats. I go off the feats we currently have and if it turns out x is overall stronger than y, then it's an open and shut case until y gets more feats or the author makes a statement bumping them up a notch/power scaling/etc. 

If you think Xebec, eos BB, Imu, etc are stronger than Kaido go right a-fucking-head.  it doesn't have anything to do with this discussion. How strong Akainu will be eos has fuck all to do with this thread and is equally as irrelevant. Let me know if you want to actually discuss Kaido vs Akainu, mkay?


----------



## MrPopo (May 8, 2022)

Kroczilla said:


> The evidence seems to suggest that Luffy's grudge with Black beard is not a driving factor for him.


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> Vs threads don't have shit to do with who can predict how the story will go. I can't believe I actually had to type that sentence. I have been debating on vs threads on and off for years and you're literally the first person I've _ever_ had this argument with.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Based on your logic, I could argue during Dressrosa that Doflamingo was stronger than Big Mom and technically you couldn’t prove me wrong because Doflamingo had more feats at the time. The direction of the story and what’s likely be damned.

It seems pointless to even discuss things like this if you believe the only thing anyone should be allowed to mention is who has more feats at the moment of discussion.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> Based on your logic, I could argue during Dressrosa that Doflamingo was stronger than Big Mom and technically you couldn’t prove me wrong because Doflamingo had more feats at the time. The direction of the story and what’s likely be damned.
> 
> It seems pointless to even discuss things like this if you believe the only thing anyone should be allowed to mention is who has more feats at the moment of discussion.


No what's pointless is to discuss eos Akainu when that is *impossible* to predict and open to interpretation. It is far more logical to fucking look at the feats/stats of Akainu and Kaido then saying who you think would win.

You already admitted you think the Akainu who got his ass beat by a dying sick old Whitebeard is stronger than current Kaido so you're obviously nuts.


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> No what's pointless is to discuss eos Akainu when that is *impossible* to predict and open to interpretation. It is far more logical to fucking look at the feats/stats of Akainu and Kaido then saying who you think would win.
> 
> You already admitted you think the Akainu who got his ass beat by a dying sick old Whitebeard is stronger than current Kaido so you're obviously nuts.


He didn’t get his ass beat. You don’t believe if enraged Whitebeard blindsided Kaido with an attack that split an island in half that Kaido would be hurt by it? That sounds like Kaido Wank to me.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> He didn’t get his ass beat. You don’t believe if enraged Whitebeard blindsided Kaido with an attack that split an island in half that Kaido would be hurt by it? That sounds like Kaido Wank to me.


Pretty sure being on the ground coughing up blood for several minutes means you got your ass beat, but go off.

Considering Kaido just completely ignored a barrage of advanced conqueror's haki+advanced armament haki enhanced punches from Luffy, no I do not believe a dying sick old Whitebeard would have Kaido on the ground screaming. Kaido has taken more damage than any other character in the series and has been fighting for 40+ chapters.


----------



## midace (May 8, 2022)

Kaido # of losses 7
Akainu 0

Stop comparing hype characters to Eos villains

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 8, 2022)

midace said:


> Kaido # of losses 7
> Akainu 0
> 
> Stop comparing hype characters to Eos villains


Luffy # of losses more than 10

> Still going to be the Pirate King and be the strongest EOS.

Akainu only fights old sick men.

Stop comparing Sabo opponent to Luffy's best teacher so far.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Piecesis (May 8, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> Nothing about that was silly, you literally made a prediction based on where you think the story will go. You’re basically saying that you’re allowed to do that but I am not. You can always retroactively be proven right because certain things haven’t happened yet and you can always just say the character got stronger since you were wrong.
> 
> In 2014 I could say, Doflamingo is stronger than Big Mom, then when WCI starts I could say “Doflamingo _was_ stronger at the time I made my prediction, Big Mom just got stronger since then”


Surely you're not this daft, you literally asked it of me. Nobody asked it of you. The thread is "Who wins 1v1" and currently based on feats Kaido wins, he even beats blackbeard. I already said I wasn't interested in speculation and you can argue with someone else if that's what you want to do. 

Narratively it doesn't work that Doflamingo would be stronger than Big Mom, what's with this stupid false eqivalance. Doflamingo doesn't have the title of world's strongest creature. The mental gymnastics you're going through to drive your point makes me want to pour one out for you. 

Also before you say that Akainu has more narrative backing him than kaido that would suggest he's stronger, he doesn't currently.


----------



## Chip Skylark (May 8, 2022)

Kroczilla said:


> The evidence seems to suggest that Luffy's grudge with Black beard is not a driving factor for him.


Not exactly. Luffy literally just didn't hear Jinbe because he stopped listening. Luffy reacted to the same news when he was told about it in Zou. If Jinbe spoke about Teach first and then Akainu, Luffy wouldn't have reacted to the news about Akainu.


----------



## Lawliet (May 8, 2022)

Ebitan said:


> Luffy # of losses more than 10
> 
> > Still going to be the Pirate King and be the strongest EOS.
> 
> ...


Listen man, I love you so I'm gonna tell you this. 

Akainu literally kills 10 Sabos at the same time. 

Akainu is the Garp of this Era. No one can stand up to him and defeat him except for a going all out Kaidou, EOS Teach and EOS Luffy. And the people I mentioned are 50 50 because that's just how strong a top top tier is unless Luffy and Teach surpass everyone by a huge margin which is a possibility. 

When Teach declares that this Era is his Era during MF. Oda chose to focus  on drawing, Teach, Akainu ( who's faaar away), Luffy ( who's unconscious).

Reactions: Winner 2 | Optimistic 1


----------



## Turrin (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> Tell that to guys like Turrin who keep insisting that the story will follow typical shonen trends where the next antagonist will be 2-3x stronger than the last. This is somehow "evidence" Akainu will be able to mid diff Kaido end of series. That's like their main argument in this thread along with magma>fire.
> 
> 13 pages of this. Unbelievable. Feats, powers, and abilities be damned.


Is Doffy not x2 stronger then Ceaser?
Is Kat not x2 stronger then Doffy?
Is Kaidou not x2 stronger then Kat?

Am I the one he should be telling it to, or Oda?

It takes a special kind of Bias to blame me simply for actually reading P2 of the Manga.


----------



## Turrin (May 8, 2022)

Akainu said:


> Turrin is alright, subsequent villains are very prevalently stronger than their predecessors, it is a shonen trope as old as time. However, I must disagree if he believes that any villain after Kaidou will be 2-3x as strong. Kaidou is simply too powerful for that, in my humble opinion. A character being 3x stronger than Kaidou would be fucking absurd. Credibility be damned at that point.


How many times stronger was Kaidou in contrast to Kat?

3 is a conservative estimate based on what Oda did with Power Cliffing in Wano.

Not to mention a very conservative estimate if we go off how much stronger every Shonen FVs are in contrast to prior arc villains historically in the genre


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Is Doffy not x2 stronger then Ceaser?
> Is Kat not x2 stronger then Doffy?
> Is Kaidou not x2 stronger then Kat?
> 
> ...


Is Mr. 3 2x stronger than Arlong?
Is Bellamy 2x stronger than Crocodile?
Is Lucci 2x stronger than Enel?

Your own logic doesn't even apply unless you cherry pick which villains you want it to apply to.

And even if it does apply, we *currently* do *not* know how strong Akainu is and it's *impossible* to determine how strong he will be in the future. Right now Kaido has better feats and stats. That's why an overwhelming number of people think Kaido wins. If Akainu is shown to have better feats and stats in the future then we can talk about it again, but for the love of God stop dragging a thread out for 15 pages because you want to speculate how strong a character is end of series (literally impossible to determine) instead of looking at the actual manga


----------



## Turrin (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> Is Mr. 3 2x stronger than Arlong?
> Is Bellamy 2x stronger than Crocodile?
> Is Lucci 2x stronger than Enel?
> 
> ...


You know Mr 3 isn’t a major villain for Luffy to defeat like Arlong was. You know Bellamy isn’t the same type of villain as Crocodile. You know none of these villains are in P2, and I was talking about the scaling in P2…. 

Why do you think it’s right to blame me for you going out of your way to be in denial of what P2 Scaling has been in the story. 
—-
Your right we don’t know how strong Akainu is, so we go with what is most likely. Looking at P2 it’s most likely that Akainu is >= Kaidou, because even Mini Bosses for Luffy in successive arcs have been >= to the Major antagonists in the prior arcs. Don Chinjoa >= Ceaser, Cracker >= Doffy, etc… 

So we know even if Akainu is about as relevant to Luffy as a villain as Chinjao or Cracker he will be =~ to Kaidou, by the scaling Oda is showing in P2. However even this is extreme downplay of Akainu plot importance as an antagonist, so it’s extremely likely the Gap will be even larger then this. But I’m being as fair as possible by putting it at >=.
——
What we don’t do is assume Kaidou is stronger simply because he presently has better Feats because he got his Arc villain battle against the MC before Akainu did. We don’t assume this because this logic would literally lead to the wrong conclusion every single time in P2. Ceaser being stronger then Doffy, Doffy being stronger then Kat, etc…

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Dellinger (May 8, 2022)

The excuses some have brought up since forever in order to wank Akainu are hilarious

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Chip Skylark (May 8, 2022)

*Mr. Anaologies points out the inconsistencies in there being a pattern throughout the story*

Turin: “I’m not talking about the _whole_ story I’m just talking about P2”

Also Turrin just a few days ago:




Turrin said:


> And no every arc villain Luffy has actually beaten, has been stronger then the prior on that Luffy has fought in One Piece just like in Dragonball. Anyone who argues otherwise simply doesn’t understand power-scaling/power progression. And also double no on MF establishing the top power of the verse, it for sure did not, as we were specifically told WB was dramatically weaker then his Prime, so MF did the exact opposite and establish that there was a level beyond what was being shown at MF, for anyone who is bothering to listen to what the characters are saying about Roger and Primebeard.
> 
> This even carrier into this arc with Kaidou establishing a clear heirarchy among the strongest with his Top 5, and Roger clearly at the Top.
> 
> You can believe that unlike what has occurred in One Piece every single time the next two major arc villains Luffy beats are going to stagnate at Kaidou’s level or worse be weaker, under the guise of somehow they will be a threat in some other way then power - unlike any shonen major antagonist ever, because this isn’t Dragonball despite it clearly striving to be just that - but don’t ask me to sign up for that logic.


It’s ok to admit when you’re wrong, folk. Way more respectable than shifting the goal post anytime you realize your argument lost its footing.

Reactions: Winner 3 | Disagree 1


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 8, 2022)

Chip Skylark said:


> *Mr. Anaologies points out the inconsistencies in there being a pattern throughout the story*
> 
> Turin: “I’m not talking about the _whole_ story I’m just talking about P2”
> 
> ...


Turrin in a nut shell, he just never stops getting himself humiliated no matter the thread  .

Never stops contradicting himself.
Never stops changing goal posts.
Never stops lying.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Akainu (May 8, 2022)

Turrin said:


> How many times stronger was Kaidou in contrast to Kat?
> 
> 3 is a conservative estimate based on what Oda did with Power Cliffing in Wano.
> 
> Not to mention a very conservative estimate if we go off how much stronger every Shonen FVs are in contrast to prior arc villains historically in the genre


I understand the trope, Turrin. But, Katakuri =/= Kaidou and the arbirtrary increase in power between subsequent villains and their predecessors is precisely that, arbitrary. All we can sensibly assume is that each main villain Luffy fights is  stronger than the preceding villain, not the degree to which they are stronger.

Kaidou is the WSC, a Yonkou, former member of the Rocks pirates, a man thought by King to be JoyBoy, a man who BM ( a monstrous freak herself) has said is practically invinvincible, a man who has fought Roger, Prime Garp, Primebeard, and countless others. A man who has mastered AdvCoC, the most potent ability in OP. The man, who Oda himself said "if it's 1 on 1, Kaidou will win." It's not logical that power levels would jump much farther beyond his. Luffy literally awakened JoyBoy and still Kaidou is still pushing him. And though Im is an innominate quantity, being 3x stronger than Kaidou is ostensibly ludicrous given everything we've seen from and heard of him.


Piecesis said:


> Blowing up the face of a dying WB aint shit in comparison to what Kaido has pulled off in this arc. Plot relevance does matter and I think most people would agree Akainu's plot relevance isn't as significant as his fans warrent, whether that's true or not is up to the individual, I personally don't care about that aspect.
> 
> As of now I do know that Akainus feats aren't close to kaido, so any speculation of Akainu's future power is nothing but speculation.


True, but stop acting as though WB was some tin can. That same WB was not getting rolled by Kaidou or anyone for that matter at his at most momentous showing. An enraged MF WB irrefutably would have doled out some punishment on Kaidou were he the one who killed Ace and even moreso with the benefit of a cheap shot. That same Kaidou was halted by Shanks.

Why would Akainu's plot relevance be even remotely dubious? He facilitated the Squardo deception, fucking killed Ace, had to be cheapshotted by an infuriated WB while almost simultaneously doling out some pro bono brain surgery on WB, arose again after an island-splitter quake directly on his ribcage to fight not only WB's second-in-command but also many others and still ended up killing another WB commander while fomenting yet another marine attack, and still left a permanent scar on a fleeing Luffy. The same scar that throbbed when Akainu was mentioned as having become the FA of the much stronger and more emboldened Marines. He was the most prominent, active and determined antagonist during the biggest event in OP's canon. He fought another super top-tier with elementally opposing powers for ten days straight with climate change being a by-product of their bout. His sole presence caused the entirety of BB's crew to flee with the quickness and abandon their plan of obtaining a battleship, leaving the manacled Bonney behind (who presumably was of great import to BB because of her DF powers). Oda clearly portrayed him in such a way to emphasize his power and direct opposition to Luffy, i.e., Dragon's son. His plot relevance is blindingly obvious and, especially in a shonen, very logically indicates he'll be there near the very end of the series. Certainly farther down the road than Kaidou it would seem.

As of now Akainu's feats aren't close to Kaidou's because Akainu's last feat occurred almost 12 years ago in real time. Of course it is speculation, but speculation can be eminently reasonable and relevant, as it is certainly is in Akainu's case. Just like the speculation you proffered regarding EOS BB earlier in this thread.


Piecesis said:


> It's irrelevant if Oda doesn't want WB to be fodderised or not, *Akainu hasn't shown anything to warrant what you guys think of him*, it doesn't get more simple than that. You can speculate all day how strong he might be after the two year timeskip or whatever, but for now that's just headcanon.


Utterly false, see above.

And it is relevant if you're trying to assert MF WB was some bum and act as though Akainu being temporarily downed by  WB is some kind of blemish on his record, when one could also hazard that WB's "voiceless rage" and the consequential adrenaline temporarily negated much of weakness he might have felt in those moments. This same WB was dealt a hemispherectomy and kept going for a while. It is considerably likely that nobody was going to, or even could, stop WB during that rampage, Kaidou included.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## featherine augustus (May 8, 2022)

First turrin and now @MartyMcFly1


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> Pretty sure being on the ground coughing up blood for several minutes means you got your ass beat, but go off.
> 
> Considering Kaido just completely ignored a barrage of advanced conqueror's haki+advanced armament haki enhanced punches from Luffy, no I do not believe a dying sick old Whitebeard would have Kaido on the ground screaming. Kaido has taken more damage than any other character in the series and has been fighting for 40+ chapters.


Several minutes? He landed on a rock and the rock fell into the ocean. Jimbei was running away with Luffy without stopping and Akainu managed to appear in front of him. Clearly he was only down for seconds at best.




MrAnalogies said:


> Is Mr. 3 2x stronger than Arlong?
> Is Bellamy 2x stronger than Crocodile?
> Is Lucci 2x stronger than Enel?
> 
> ...


This is INSANE. You’re trying to compare weaker enemies that Luffy fought to Arc/Saga bosses to prove your point. Why not throw on some fodder characters that Luffy beat as well? Might help make your point since y’all truly don’t care about logic in this little Kaido Wank circle jerk that you’re in.




Piecesis said:


> Surely you're not this daft, you literally asked it of me. Nobody asked it of you. The thread is "Who wins 1v1" and currently based on feats Kaido wins, he even beats blackbeard. I already said I wasn't interested in speculation and you can argue with someone else if that's what you want to do.
> 
> Narratively it doesn't work that Doflamingo would be stronger than Big Mom, what's with this stupid false eqivalance. Doflamingo doesn't have the title of world's strongest creature. The mental gymnastics you're going through to drive your point makes me want to pour one out for you.
> 
> Also before you say that Akainu has more narrative backing him than kaido that would suggest he's stronger, he doesn't currently.


Why are you telling me you don’t care about ‘narrative’ then in the next paragraph you bring up ‘narrative’ to make your point. What I said about Big Mom and Doflamingo is EXACTLY what you’re doing in this thread to try to prove your point. ‘Speculation at best’ as you say.

In part 1 I could have said Enel is stronger than Whitebeard, and since we didn’t have adequate feats to prove Whitebeard’s strength, I could have argued that you weren’t allowed to make speculative posts about why you think Whitebeard might be stronger. It’s the EXACT same. How are you struggling to understand this?

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Kroczilla (May 8, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> In part 1 I could have said Enel is stronger than Whitebeard,


FFS, WB was introduced to us as the strongest Man in the world

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 8, 2022)

Kroczilla said:


> FFS, WB was introduced to us as the strongest Man in the world


But I thought that title didn’t matter as much as Kaido’s title?

How is he the strongest man in the world, then 2 weeks later Akainu should have fodderized him because he was weaker than he was while literally wearing an oxygen mask.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## A Optimistic (May 8, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> But I thought that title didn’t matter as much as Kaido’s title?
> 
> How is he the strongest man in the world, then 2 weeks later Akainu should have fodderized him because he was weaker than he was while literally wearing an oxygen mask.



cuz he’s the strongest when he has his medical equipment on

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 8, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> cuz he’s the strongest when he has his medical equipment on


Ahh, I see. Noted.


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> This is INSANE. You’re trying to compare weaker enemies that Luffy fought to Arc/Saga bosses to prove your point. Why not throw on some fodder characters that Luffy beat as well? Might help make your point since y’all truly don’t care about logic in this little Kaido Wank circle jerk that you’re in.


No, every single character I mentioned was the boss of their own story arc. Lucci was an arc boss and he cannot beat enel without haki. You're mad because it kills your narrative that the next story arc villain is stronger than the previous one. I can give 7 examples proving that's head canon nonsense. Akainu doesn't need to be stronger than kaido to be a threat to Luffy and assuming he will be based on narrative elements is not a valid argument in a vs thread no matter how much you scream.



MartyMcFly1 said:


> Several minutes? He landed on a rock and the rock fell into the ocean. Jimbei was running away with Luffy without stopping and Akainu managed to appear in front of him. Clearly he was only down for seconds at best.


Minutes, seconds, semantics. You asked me if I think a sick old Whitebeard could have kaido on the ground yelling in pain half dead from just 2 punches. The short answer is no. The long answer is hell no. Kaido tanked a king Kong gun gattling while _drunk_ and _completely off guard _yet it did nothing to him and didn't leave a scratch. A sick old WB (who can barely use haki with multiple serious wounds) would need a hell of a lot more than just 2 punches to severely damage kaido even if he's off guard.


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> No, every single character I mentioned was the boss of their own story arc. Lucci was an arc boss and he cannot beat enel without haki. You're mad because it kills your narrative that the next story arc villain is stronger than the previous one. I can give 7 examples proving that's head canon nonsense. Akainu doesn't need to be stronger than kaido to be a threat to Luffy and assuming he will be based on narrative elements is not a valid argument in a vs thread no matter how much you scream.
> 
> 
> Minutes, seconds, semantics. You asked me if I think a sick old Whitebeard could have kaido on the ground yelling in pain half dead from just 2 punches. The short answer is no. The long answer is hell no. Kaido tanked a king Kong gun gattling while _drunk_ and _completely off guard _yet it did nothing to him and didn't leave a scratch. A sick old WB (who can barely use haki with multiple serious wounds) would need a hell of a lot more than just 2 punches to severely damage kaido even if he's off guard.


You don’t see any difference between Bellamy/Mr. 3 and Enel/Lucci narratively?

Interesting take. So, the scabbards had Kaido on the ground yelling in pain, but Whitebeard _couldn’t_ accomplish that with an attack that split an island in half. Noted.




featherine augustus said:


> First turrin and now @MartyMcFly1


Cute. That’s what you’re trying to be, right? Cute?

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Akainu (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> Pretty sure being on the ground coughing up blood for several minutes means you got your ass beat, but go off.


Pretty sure coughing up blood is a direct consequence of receiving a concentrated earthquake by an enraged super top-tier  directly to the ribs. Considering how time lapses in OP and the sheer number of things occurring simultaneously during the war, to say several minutes passed by is not only extremely unlikely but nigh-groundless. He was literally tunneling through the ground towards a retreating Jinbei for less than two chapters, just enough time for WB to have his inevitable confrontation with BB and to be immortalized in OP lore. Not to mention for a guy who "got his ass beat", Akainu sure as hell doled out a lot more ass-whooping himself thereafter. Akainu literally had the best showing during the war sans WB himself.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Neutral 1


----------



## Akainu (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> Minutes, seconds, semantics. You asked me if I think a sick old Whitebeard could have kaido on the ground yelling in pain half dead from just 2 punches. The short answer is no. The long answer is hell no. Kaido tanked a king Kong gun gattling while _drunk_ and _completely off guard _yet it did nothing to him and didn't leave a scratch. A sick old WB (who can barely use haki with multiple serious wounds) would need a hell of a lot more than just 2 punches to severely damage kaido even if he's off guard.


How do you ascertain that Akainu was half-dead? Every action he took thereafter directly refutes that. Seems absurd that a half-dead Akainu could confront Marco, other commanders, Croc and more and still end up killing Curiel and catching up to Jinbei and Luffy all whilst rallying the marines for yet another assault until another super top-tier showed up. 

You could just as easily surmise that MF WB would probably not need more than 2 punches, including the ever-relevant cheap shot, to damage Kaidou if Kaidou had just ended Ace's life and WB's hope for success. Again, Oda emphasized WB's "voiceless rage", a rage that easily could have been enough to briefly bypass the toll his body had taken by that point. This is the same man who lost half his head and still trundled on. I don't believe the gap between WB and anyone was big enough that he couldn't damage them provided a blindside option.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> You don’t see any difference between Bellamy/Mr. 3 and Enel/Lucci narratively?
> 
> Interesting take. So, the scabbards had Kaido on the ground yelling in pain, but Whitebeard _couldn’t_ accomplish that with an attack that split an island in half. Noted.


They're all arc villains and they contradict your narrative. I don't make a distinction because one villain looks cooler than the next lol. Again, you're just applying your head cannon and cherry picking what doesn't fit. Mr. 3 was a threat and a serious obstacle to the straw hats journey. He nearly killed Nami, Vivi, and Zoro. Just because he's not a threat to Luffy now doesn't mean he doesn't count as a serious arc villain.

You mean the scabbards wounded base Kaido who was holding back and was later shown tanking attacks way deadlier than what the scabbards dished out?

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

Akainu said:


> Pretty sure coughing up blood is a direct consequence of receiving a concentrated earthquake by an enraged super top-tier  directly to the ribs. Considering how time lapses in OP and the sheer number of things occurring simultaneously during the war, to say several minutes passed by is not only extremely unlikely but nigh-groundless. He was literally tunneling through the ground towards a retreating Jinbei for less than two chapters, just enough time for WB to have his inevitable confrontation with BB and to be immortalized in OP lore. Not to mention for a guy who "got his ass beat", Akainu sure as hell doled out a lot more ass-whooping himself thereafter. Akainu literally had the best showing during the war sans WB himself.


The point wasn't that Akainu was trash or had bad feats in the war. Obviously it's impressive Akainu took those hits and was able to survive and continue fighting. The point was Akainus durability isn't even within the same zip code as Kaido. I was trying to redirect the conversation back to comparing stats and feats but apparently people would rather speculate an imaginary eos Akainu who we have absolutely no clue how strong he is.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> They're all arc villains and they contradict your narrative. I don't make a distinction because one villain looks cooler than the next lol. Again, you're just applying your head cannon and cherry picking what doesn't fit. Mr. 3 was a threat and a serious obstacle to the straw hats journey. He nearly killed Nami, Vivi, and Zoro. Just because he's not a threat to Luffy now doesn't mean he doesn't count as a serious arc villain.
> 
> You mean the scabbards wounded base Kaido who was holding back and was later shown tanking attacks way deadlier than what the scabbards dished out?


I asked specifically, you don’t see a difference between them as arc villains narratively? What about between Kaido and Caesar Clown or Hody Jones? It isn’t about them looking cool, it’s about them being an actual threat to Luffy and him needing to go all out against them.

The fact of the matter is, Akainu got right up and kept fighting after receiving that attack. You tried using the fact that he fell to the ground as evidence that he got his ass whooped, but he got right up after. I would even say those attacks Akainu received were much stronger than anything Kaido got hit with.


----------



## Sablés (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> but apparently people would rather speculate an imaginary eos Akainu who we have absolutely no clue how strong he is.


How else do you expect them to make an argument. It's a tacit admittance that Current Akainu as we know him is not enough.

On another note, isn't Kaido's weapon some random club and not a special grade weapon like what everyone else has?

Seems like a complete waste.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 8, 2022)

Sablés said:


> How else do you expect them to make an argument. It's a tacit admittance that Current Akainu as we know him is not enough.


We’re essentially at the end of the series. I’m talking about Akainu now. The next time we see him, if he’s stronger than Kaido, people shouldn’t be allowed to use the excuse “But he got stronger since I made my prediction!!”

No he didn’t, but when it comes to this prediction game everyone isn’t created equal.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

Akainu said:


> How do you ascertain that Akainu was half-dead? Every action he took thereafter directly refutes that. Seems absurd that a half-dead Akainu could confront Marco, other commanders, Croc and more and still end up killing Curiel and catching up to Jinbei and Luffy all whilst rallying the marines for yet another assault until another super top-tier showed up.
> 
> You could just as easily surmise that MF WB would probably not need more than 2 punches, including the ever-relevant cheap shot, to damage Kaidou if Kaidou had just ended Ace's life and WB's hope for success. Again, Oda emphasized WB's "voiceless rage", a rage that easily could have been enough to briefly bypass the toll his body had taken by that point. This is the same man who lost half his head and still trundled on. I don't believe the gap between WB and anyone was big enough that he couldn't damage them provided a blindside option.


I ascertained that from his pained expression and being in the ground incapacitated coughing up blood.

No I don't believe that WB would only need 2 punches to put kaido in that state when kaido has tanked the scabbards attacks, red roc, injection shot, killers sonic waves, multiple hits from kid, Zoro's dragon twister and conquerors enhanced ashura slash, multiple conqueror's+armament enhanced king Kong gattlings, yamatos mythical zoan enhanced attacks, and a bunch of hist from gear 5 yet after all that has only taken a knee for one panel and virtually no real breaks.

But a dying WB leaking blood who can barely even use haki can surpass all the above combined damage and have kaido writhing in pain from 2 hits? Sounds like a punch line to a terrible joke.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> I asked specifically, you don’t see a difference between them as arc villains narratively? What about between Kaido and Caesar Clown or Hody Jones? It isn’t about them looking cool, it’s about them being an actual threat to Luffy and him needing to go all out against them.
> 
> The fact of the matter is, Akainu got right up and kept fighting after receiving that attack. You tried using the fact that he fell to the ground as evidence that he got his ass whooped, but he got right up after. I would even say those attacks Akainu received were much stronger than anything Kaido got hit with.


You are shifting the goal posts. Either the next villain is always stronger than the previous one or he isn't. Pretty sure Vivi, Nami, and Zoro being stuck as statues the rest of their lives was a "serious threat" because they could have...died? Both enel and Lucci were treated as "serious threats" to Luffy and he went all out against them, yet enel would clearly beat Lucci. Just stop.

And if you think the damage Akainu received in 2 pages surpasses all the damage kaido has received in 50+ chapters you are smoking beer and I'm not going to bother responding anymore.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Fujitora (May 8, 2022)

Germa 66 said:


> Akainu destroys the Beasts Pirates


SnAKeMan lUFfY wIlL bEAt KaIdO.

Reactions: Funny 5


----------



## Germa 66 (May 8, 2022)

~Flow~ said:


> SnAKeMan lUFfY wIlL bEAt KaIdO.


He was, so it was a reasonable assumption when you have Kaido crying out for Luffy to stop hitting him

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Fujitora (May 8, 2022)

Germa 66 said:


> He was, so it was a reasonable assumption when you have Kaido crying out for Luffy to stop hitting him


Just pointing out your shit takes is all.

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> You are shifting the goal posts. Either the next villain is always stronger than the previous one or he isn't. Pretty sure Vivi, Nami, and Zoro being stuck as statues the rest of their lives was a "serious threat" because they could have...died? Both enel and Lucci were treated as "serious threats" to Luffy and he went all out against them, yet enel would clearly beat Lucci. Just stop.
> 
> And if you think the damage Akainu received in 2 pages surpasses all the damage kaido has received in 50+ chapters you are smoking beer and I'm not going to bother responding anymore.


He’s talking about major arc bosses, not weak ones fought in between major arcs. I understood that without needing it explained to me, but since you did…I’m explaining it to you.

You can smoke beer? Sounds interesting. I was specifically referring to all the damage Kaido received from the scabbards that had Kaido on the ground bleeding.

Kaido on the ground and then gets up to keep fighting = Means nothing. Kaido is the Goat.

Akainu on the ground and then gets up to keep fighting = Weakling, trash stamina, Luffy fodderizes


----------



## Germa 66 (May 8, 2022)

~Flow~ said:


> Except he didnt beat him.


Hard at reading? I just said he WAS BEATING him. As in, in the process of beating him and Kaido was screaming in pain begging for Luffy to stop therefore it looked like he would’ve won with it.


----------



## Conquistador (May 8, 2022)

Snakeman was beating Kaido so hard that Kaido started flirting with him mid-punch

Reactions: Winner 8


----------



## Germa 66 (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> You are shifting the goal posts. Either the next villain is always stronger than the previous one or he isn't. Pretty sure Vivi, Nami, and Zoro being stuck as statues the rest of their lives was a "serious threat" because they could have...died? Both enel and Lucci were treated as "serious threats" to Luffy and he went all out against them, yet enel would clearly beat Lucci. Just stop.
> 
> And if you think the damage Akainu received in 2 pages surpasses all the damage kaido has received in 50+ chapters you are smoking beer and I'm not going to bother responding anymore.


Lucci kills Eneru. All of CP9 used haki


----------



## Conquistador (May 8, 2022)

This is a man on the cusp of defeat

Reactions: Funny 6 | Winner 1


----------



## Fel1x (May 8, 2022)

Germa 66 said:


> Akainu destroys the Beasts Pirates


why are you unbanned?

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


----------



## Gianfi (May 8, 2022)

Kaido high (low) diff

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## YonkoDrippy (May 8, 2022)

You’re on Crack if you think Akainu wins here

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 1


----------



## A Optimistic (May 8, 2022)

LMAO at the idea of snake man beating Kaido

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Germa 66 (May 8, 2022)

Fel1x said:


> why are you unbanned?


I told whatshisface to just make it permanent but here I am


----------



## YonkoDrippy (May 8, 2022)

Germa 66 said:


> I told whatshisface to just make it permanent but here I am


Bruh you get banned like every week lol

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2 | Informative 1 | Disagree 1


----------



## Akainu (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> The point wasn't that Akainu was trash or had bad feats in the war. Obviously it's impressive Akainu took those hits and was able to survive and continue fighting. The point was Akainus durability isn't even within the same zip code as Kaido. I was trying to redirect the conversation back to comparing stats and feats but apparently people would rather speculate an imaginary eos Akainu who we have absolutely no clue how strong he is.


It's erroneous to outright state Kaidou's durability is in a different zip code. All you can say is that Kaidou has shown better durability feats than Akainu. And it is not obvious that the massive quakes Akainu took, the blind-side to the head and the island-bisector, would not have damaged Kaidou, the opposite seems more likely to me. This is a WB who just saw Ace murdered we're talking about. Not to mention, we never saw Akainu's durability taken to its maximum extent. He continued his rampage unstopped even by Marco and friends until a completely fresh RH crew showed up. The same crew that stopped Kaidou from trying to fight WB. given Kaidou's preoccupation with death, he may have been trying to intercept WB as he thought tangling with the WSM would allow him to meet his demise. There's no way you can say anything but Kaidou's shown durability is greater than Akainu's, but we haven't seen Akainu do anything in 12 years.

We obviously are unaware as to how strong EOS Akainu is. But his portrayal, plot relevance, feats and power-scaling give a very adequate picture of a character who is among the strongest in the series and very much someone who can tango with Kaidou, or anyone for that matter. Kizaru himself casually requested to stop BM and Kaidou's meet-up.

Reactions: Agree 4 | Disagree 1


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> He’s talking about major arc bosses, not weak ones fought in between major arcs. I understood that without needing it explained to me, but since you did…I’m explaining it to you.


Enel and Lucci were major arc bosses, they were not weak or in between major arcs. What part of this are you not getting?


----------



## Akainu (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> I ascertained that from his pained expression and being in the ground incapacitated coughing up blood.
> 
> No I don't believe that WB would only need 2 punches to put kaido in that state when kaido has tanked the scabbards attacks, red roc, injection shot, killers sonic waves, multiple hits from kid, Zoro's dragon twister and conquerors enhanced ashura slash, multiple conqueror's+armament enhanced king Kong gattlings, yamatos mythical zoan enhanced attacks, and a bunch of hist from gear 5 yet after all that has only taken a knee for one panel and virtually no real breaks.
> 
> But a dying WB leaking blood who can barely even use haki can surpass all the above combined damage and have kaido writhing in pain from 2 hits? Sounds like a punch line to a terrible joke.


He wasn't unequivocally incapacitated though, he fell down a fissure and then the manga indicates he very shortly thereafter began tunneling towards Luffy and Jinbei. Coughing up blood =/= getting your ass kicked.

It's subjective of course, but none, save for maybe Luffy, of the aforementioned people have the offensive output that WB had. Especially were he to take cheap shots from a WB who was giving all he had left. I don't think Kaidou is taking those hits and smiling, but I'm sure he, like Akainu, would take some damage and then get right back up to proceed with the ass-whooping.

But assuming Kaidou, if he had killed Ace, and WB who was probably angrier than he ever was in his life couldn't do considerable damage to an unaware Kaidou, especially considering Wb is the man who lost half his face and kept going. Sounds like a punch line to some kid's joke at an elementary school talent show.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


----------



## featherine augustus (May 8, 2022)

Germa 66 said:


> Banned, in a way, humiliated, never once happened.


You remember me? MonsterKaido here


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

Akainu said:


> It's erroneous to outright state Kaidou's durability is in a different zip code


No the fuck it isn't.

Make a poll and ask if Kaido's durability is in a zip code of it's own. Even fucking Turrin would disagree with you.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Akainu (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> No the fuck it isn't.
> 
> Make a poll and ask if Kaido's durability is in a zip code of it's own. Even fucking Turrin would disagree with you.


Yes it is. What you want to say is that Kaidou's shown durability feats are better than Akainu's. You know jack shit about the extent of Akainu's durability. There is the distinct chance that Akainu could have taken many of the same shots that Kaidou has.

I couldn't give two piles of shit about a poll here. Argumentum ad populum.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

Akainu said:


> He wasn't unequivocally incapacitated though, he fell down a fissure and then the manga indicates he very shortly thereafter began tunneling towards Luffy and Jinbei. Coughing up blood =/= getting your ass kicked.
> 
> It's subjective of course, but none, save for maybe Luffy, of the aforementioned people have the offensive output that WB had. Especially were he to take cheap shots from a WB who was giving all he had left. I don't think Kaidou is taking those hits and smiling, but I'm sure he, like Akainu, would take some damage and then get right back up to proceed with the ass-whooping.
> 
> But assuming Kaidou, if he had killed Ace, and WB who was probably angrier than he ever was in his life couldn't do considerable damage to an unaware Kaidou, especially considering Wb is the man who lost half his face and kept going. Sounds like a punch line to some kid's joke at an elementary school talent show.


Kaido isn't going to be smiling but he isn't going to be screaming in pain on the ground either. Kaido was literally drunk and off guard when Luffy used an advanced conqueror's haki+advanced armament enhanced gear 4 assault and Kaido proceeded to flirt with Luffy.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Sablés (May 8, 2022)

Akainu said:


> What you want to say is that Kaidou's shown durability feats are better than Akainu's.


Kaido is the guy who is infamous for being functionally unkillable in all the mediums he's been referenced, Akainu's durability has been thoroughly tested and he was never awarded the same hype, nor do his feats match Kaido's. I'd say it's utterly biased to argue otherwise, but that's reaching for low-hanging fruit.

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## Akainu (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> Kaido isn't going to be smiling but he isn't going to be screaming in pain on the ground either. Kaido was literally drunk and off guard when Luffy used an advanced conqueror's haki+advanced armament enhanced gear 4 assault and Kaido proceeded to flirt with Luffy.



Akainu was screaming in pain? Kaidou being drunk potentially strengthens his durability and there is nothing that guarantees Luffy's hits there are any stronger than the hit Akainu took directly on his side that destroyed Marineford, and this was after taking a cheap shot quake directly to the head.

Reactions: Disagree 1


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

Akainu said:


> Yes it is. What you want to say is that Kaidou's shown durability feats are better than Akainu's. You know jack shit about the extent of Akainu's durability. There is the distinct chance that Akainu could have taken many of the same shots that Kaidou has.
> 
> I couldn't give two piles of shit about a poll here. Argumentum ad populum.


No, I said what I meant and meant what I said. Here, let me spell it out for you and everyone else who doesn't get it:

I DON'T GIVE A FLYING FUCK ABOUT "CHANCES" OR "POSSIBILITIES" OR "PLOT RELEVANCE" YOU NUMBSKULL.

What has been *SHOWN* is that Kaido has the better durability feats, therefore he has better durability. That's how this works. If a character hasn't shown the full extent of their stats I'm not going to assume they have similar durability to someone like kaido. Otherwise, according to your dumbass logic, you could argue Weavil, Shanks, Dragon, and Loki all have better durability than kaido.

When you have some scans that show otherwise, you have an argument. Until then you are talking out of your ass.

We're done here.


----------



## Akainu (May 8, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Kaido is the guy who is infamous for being functionally unkillable in all the mediums he's been referenced, Akainu's durability has been thoroughly tested and he was never awarded the same hype, nor do his feats match Kaido's. I'd say it's utterly biased to argue otherwise, but that's reaching for low-hanging fruit.



You clearly don't understand. You wrote this as though you know precisely how durable Akainu is. Which you don't and so even with all of Kaidou's durability hype, you still can't say with any certitude that his durability is in a different zip code. Try again.


----------



## YonkoDrippy (May 8, 2022)

Akainu said:


> You clearly don't understand. You wrote this as though you know precisely how durable Akainu is. Which you don't and so even with all of Kaidou's durability hype, you still can't say with any certitude that his durability is in a different zip code. Try again.


Kaido can tank any of Akainu’s attacks. Try again

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

Germa 66 said:


> Lucci kills Eneru. All of CP9 used haki


Prove CP9 had haki in the Ennis lobby saga.


----------



## Akainu (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> No, I said what I meant and meant what I said. Here, let me spell it out for you and everyone else who doesn't get it:
> 
> I DON'T GIVE A FLYING FUCK ABOUT "CHANCES" OR "POSSIBILITIES" OR "PLOT RELEVANCE" YOU NUMBSKULL.
> 
> ...


Easy there little guy, rein in your emotions. 

Even if you don't care about those things, they still matter in this context but clearly don't fit your narrative. 

I agree, Kaidou has shown better durability feats. He's likely the most durable character in OP. But that doesn't mean you accurately say his durability is in a different stratosphere from Akainu's. It doesn't work like that, pal. 

When you can understand and acknowledge the points I've made, maybe then you'll understand and stop getting your panties wadded. 

Sure, bud.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Sablés (May 8, 2022)

Akainu said:


> You wrote this as though you know precisely how durable Akainu is


This hobby operates on the basis of feats and hype. We have both of these in known quantities for Sakazuki.
Kaido surpasses him by leaps and bounds in both areas. Do you think Akainu is special or something? There are characters like Mihawk who have never taken a damn scratch, but nobody in their bloody minds will argue his durability is better than Kaido. There is just no reason to give him the benefit of the doubt.


Akainu said:


> But assuming Kaidou, if he had killed Ace, and WB who was probably angrier than he ever was in his life couldn't do considerable damage to an unaware Kaidou, *especially considering Wb is the man who lost half his face and kept going.* Sounds like a punch line to some kid's joke at an elementary school talent show.


By the way, what the hell does this even mean? I'm struggling to follow the logic of even the bolded. Usually, one would assume that WB taking significant injuries hampers his ability to do damage, not the other way around.


----------



## Akainu (May 8, 2022)

YonkoDrippy said:


> Kaido can tank any of Akainu’s attacks. Try again



Akainu can take all of Kaidou's attacks. See how easy it is to say shit for which there are no grounds. I'd love to see Kaidou take a straight on meigou in the middle of the eyes.


----------



## Akainu (May 8, 2022)

Sablés said:


> This hobby operates on the basis of feats and hype. We have both of these in known quantities for Sakazuki.
> Kaido surpasses him by leaps and bounds in both areas.
> 
> By the way, what the hell does this even mean? I'm struggling to follow the logic of even the bolded. Usually, one would assume that WB taking significant injuries hampers his ability to do damage, not the other way around.



Yes he does, but how do you not compute that this doesn't mean Kaidou's feats and hype will eternally outclass Akainu's? You simply do not. I have never denied Kaidou's superiority in shown feats. Doesn't mean he's in a different zip code. That's head canon, no matter how much y'all want it to.

You guys are trying to downplay WB, and him losing half his head while trundling on counteracts said downplay. WB was still a monster until the very end. Some of y'all are acting he couldn't hit hard anymore or something. It's hysterical.


----------



## Inferno Jewls (May 8, 2022)

Akainu will fight a 2xs stronger Luffy and still luffy willl need an extreme diff to beat akainu 

Hell, Luffy might even need a break


----------



## YonkoDrippy (May 8, 2022)

Akainu said:


> Akainu can take all of Kaidou's attacks.


He was getting his ass whooped by WB so I doubt that.


Akainu said:


> See how easy it is to say shit for which there are no grounds. I'd love to see Kaidou take a straight on meigou in the middle of the eyes.


He took attacks from the Scabbards, R5, Yamato, G5 Luffy and he’s still fighting with no issue. Kaido would  face tank Meigo

Reactions: Like 2 | Tier Specialist 1


----------



## Fel1x (May 8, 2022)

Inferno Jewls said:


> Akainu will fight a stronger Sabo and still sabo willl need an extreme diff to beat akainu
> 
> Hell, Sabo might not even need a break


fixed it for you

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


----------



## Germa 66 (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> Prove CP9 had haki in the Ennis lobby saga.


Vivre cards and common sense when Lucci was hurting Luffy with blunt attacks


----------



## Seraphoenix (May 8, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> It isn’t that you’re wrong, it’s that you’re so aggressively wrong that’s my problem with how you come off. I’m the captain of the Marco is underrated legion, check my resume.
> 
> Right we’re *dumb AF* because we believe the guy who held off an enraged Whitebeard, removed half of his face, killed the protagonists older brother and permanently scarred the protagonist (giving him the only noticeable change in design from part 1 to part 2) will be an important antagonist.
> 
> ...


Oda said he is admiral level. Please shut the fuck up if you can't give contrary evidence from the author of this manga. You have the nerve to tell me I am aggressively wrong when it's the author of the manga saying this.  What is wrong with you?

Yes, you are. WB was a disgrace at MF. Had multiple heart attacks and inconsistent haki. That's how much Oda had to nerf him so that admirals could 'hold him off'. Even then Akainu got downed in two hits by some of the weakest gura attacks. The one that put Lakazuki on the ground crying WB's name, is something Teach casually did seconds after getting the fruit.

I probably read more books in a week as a teenager than you do in a year. You sound like Turrin who can only reference other material when talking about OP, while ignoring OP itself. Oda has clearly established Kaido as the consensus top dog among the OP world, despite MF being broadcasted around the world. Akainu is not even on the radar of the strongest. His nigh equal joined BB and no Yonko has been shown to give a flying fuck about someone who took PK++ level Akainu to 10 days.

All you have is your headcanon about how EoS will play out. You can't predict next weeks spoilers but you'll convince yourself you can predict Oda because muh Shonen, like Akainu, isn't a government dog whose face is worth zero.

Reactions: Funny 4


----------



## Germa 66 (May 8, 2022)

featherine augustus said:


> You remember me? MonsterKaido here


I do. No wonder you lied the way you did

What brings you to this inferior forum?

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## YonkoDrippy (May 8, 2022)

Akainu said:


> Yeah because WB wasn't the WSM or anything.
> 
> Akainu could tank some of those attacks, too. It sounds as though you may have tanked a meigou to the brain at some point in life, guy.


You haven’t countered any of my points. Concession accepted

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## convict (May 8, 2022)

Kaido top 1 Akainu top 3.

The best scenario is by the time Luffy faces Akainu due to health impacts he doesn’t use awakening and is now progressed in strength to where his other Gears are now a match for Kaido (whereas currently mid-high diff at most) enough to extreme diff Akainu and Gear 5 is only reserved for Gods like final form Teach or Imu. This way my boy Akainu doesn’t become a victim of being a toon has an epic extremely difficult fight and actually falls to Luffy as opposed to the ridiculous notion that Luffy won’t ever fight him.

Other less likely options are Akainu is stronger than Kaido or Luffy beats him convincingly because Luffy not fighting Akainu is impossible.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Akainu (May 8, 2022)

YonkoDrippy said:


> You haven’t countered any of my points. Concession accepted



You spew tripe without logical grounding, concession accepted.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Seraphoenix (May 8, 2022)

convict said:


> Kaido top 1 Akainu top 3.
> 
> The best scenario is by the time Luffy faces Akainu due to health impacts he doesn’t use awakening and is now progressed in strength to where his other Gears are now a match for Kaido (whereas currently mid-high diff at most) enough to extreme diff Akainu and Gear 5 is only reserved for Gods like final form Teach or Imu. This way my boy Akainu doesn’t become a victim of being a toon has an epic extremely difficult fight and actually falls to Luffy as opposed to the ridiculous notion that Luffy won’t ever fight him.
> 
> Other less likely options are Akainu is stronger than Kaido or Luffy beats him convincingly because Luffy not fighting Akainu is impossible.


Fresh Luffy after fighting Teach bluenos Akainu. Be careful what you wish for..

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 1 | Disagree 1


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

Germa 66 said:


> Vivre cards and common sense when Lucci was hurting Luffy with blunt attacks


It says he learned haki during the time skip while training to join CP0.


----------



## Germa 66 (May 8, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Well, Luffy did say he wants to beat all the admirals. So he beats Fuji, Greenbull and Kizaru in the final war, before extreme diffing Akainu. You and the others will get your wish.
> 
> At the point where Luffy fights him, Luffy will be in slightly better condition than Deathbed WB. We know this is the level needed to put Akainu on the ground. So Luffy can still pull off a win and Akainu can maintain some semblance of dignity despite being the head of the Celestial Dragon's bodyguard unit.


It’s about as clear as day that Luffy isn’t fighting all the admirals. His wings will handle some while he focuses on the main threat, Sakazuki.

You know damn well Oda can’t draw multiple full length top tier fights centered on Luffy back to back lest we be in for a break year. Plus it’s foolish to believe. That’s like 10+ chapters for each admiral fight if Luffy is involved. Less if they are left to his allies like Law fighting Meme majority off screen

Don’t take Luffy’s statements literally, he will never even fight Big Meme or Shanks most likely. He can conqueror the seas without personally engaging everyone.


----------



## Germa 66 (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> It says he learned haki during the time skip while training to join CP0.


wrong. You are using a faulty source then, look it up every member of CP9 is listed as a haki user on the wiki and vivre cards on the website that logs all of them.

Yes that includes the ones who didn’t get promoted to CP0 such as Jabra and Kalifa. This should be common sense once again seeing as how Iron Body IS Armament Haki


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

Germa 66 said:


> wrong. You are using a faulty source then, look it up every member of CP9 is listed as a haki user on the wiki and vivre cards on the website that logs all of them.
> 
> Yes that includes the ones who didn’t get promoted to CP0 such as Jabra and Kalifa. This should be common sense once again seeing as how Iron Body IS Armament Haki


Then why don't you post the source.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


----------



## Seraphoenix (May 8, 2022)

Germa 66 said:


> It’s about as clear as day that Luffy isn’t fighting all the admirals. His wings will handle some while he focuses on the main threat, Sakazuki.
> 
> You know damn well Oda can’t draw multiple full length top tier fights centered on Luffy back to back lest we be in for a break year. Plus it’s foolish to believe. That’s like 10+ chapters for each admiral fight if Luffy is involved. Less if they are left to his allies like Law fighting Meme majority off screen
> 
> Don’t take Luffy’s statements literally, he will never even fight Big Meme or Shanks most likely. He can conqueror the seas without personally engaging everyone.


Nothing is clear as day in the Luffy show. The problem is that There are gaps between Luffy, Zoro and Sanji that are a lot bigger than the gaps between the pokemon admirals. Luffy would likely have to weaken an admiral for Sanji to safely fight one in any case. 

Of course, Oda can. Kaido's fight has been the longest in the manga. Besides, it's not like the fights will last that long 

BM is getting beaten on Elbaf and he will likely have a Davy Back fight with Shanks or they clash like WB and Roger.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

Germa 66 said:


> I don’t waste time on the sore losers who wanna play dumb, the wiki has annotations and links. The vivre card website has summaries to find characters pertaining to an arc.
> 
> Run along now


There is nothing suggesting they knew haki during Ennis lobby. You're spouting head cannon nonsense.

I'm not surprised since you're the same sore loser who is mad that your prediction snakeman Luffy would beat kaido ended horribly.


----------



## Germa 66 (May 8, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Nothing is clear as day in the Luffy show. The problem is that There are gaps between Luffy, Zoro and Sanji that are a lot bigger than the gaps between the pokemon admirals. Luffy would likely have to weaken an admiral for Sanji to safely fight one in any case.
> 
> Of course, Oda can. Kaido's fight has been the longest in the manga. Besides, it's not like the fights will last that long
> 
> BM is getting beaten on Elbaf and he will likely have a Davy Back fight with Shanks or they clash like WB and Roger.


The gap between Luffy and everyone else is immense. The gap between his wings and cheerleaders: Sanji, Zoro, Law, and Kid is not, all currently being YC1+, by the time Admirals are obstacles they can fight them.

Luffy doesn’t need to weaken anyone. Think back to Marineford. Whenever an Admiral tried to step to Pops it was his wings who straight up slapped them away and told him to let them handle it.

If Kizaru tries to fight Luffy, Sanji will intercept. If Fujitora tries it then Zoro is squaring up. Luffy has more important goals and they know this


----------



## Germa 66 (May 8, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> How do you even get banned from WG? When people like Lee and Shishio thrive?


Mods are scared of me.


MrAnalogies said:


> There is nothing suggesting they knew haki during Ennis lobby. You're spouting head cannon nonsense.
> 
> I'm not surprised since you're the same sore loser who is mad that your prediction snakeman Luffy would beat kaido ended horribly.


Stealing my insults. But show me the reciepts of me being mad, I long conceded I was wrong in good faith, even now when losers like you shove it in my face I joke


----------



## featherine augustus (May 8, 2022)

@Akainu I think you are getting confused between endurance and durability

Akainu's feat of taking WB's attack is an endurance feat not a dura one. He doesn't have Kaido's scales for dura


----------



## featherine augustus (May 8, 2022)

Germa 66 said:


> I do. No wonder you lied the way you did
> 
> What brings you to this inferior forum?


Just killing time

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Akainu (May 8, 2022)

featherine augustus said:


> @Akainu I think you are getting confused between endurance and durability
> 
> Akainu's feat of taking WB's attack is an endurance feat not a dura one. He doesn't have Kaido's scales for dura


Nah, WB's attack is both a durability and endurance feat. Akainu took two extremely devastating blows (durability) and then had enough stamina to go on a monstrous and incredible rampage (endurance). If taking an island-bifurcator to the ribs isn't a feat of durability then I'm not sure what is.


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

Akainu said:


> You're the weakling who acts as though the more people who agree with you, the stronger your position.
> 
> Lol, you can take that retarded position all you want, the one wherein feats only matter, but that doesn't make irrelevant hype, scaling, or portrayal. No matter how baaaaaad you want it to. What do you not understand? The manga has shown Kaidou to have durability better than anyone, including Akainu. Here's what you're not getting:
> 
> ...


Still waiting for those new Akainu durability feats.

If you had any "education" at all you'd realize that your posts have more than half a dozen logic fallacies.


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

Germa 66 said:


> Stealing my insults. But show me the reciepts of me being mad, I long conceded I was wrong in good faith, even now when losers like you shove it in my face I joke


Show me the receipts proving CP9 knew haki in Ennis lobby it was a very simple request.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Germa 66 (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> Show me the receipts proving CP9 knew haki in Ennis lobby it was a very simple request.


Get your eyes checked because like I said they were hurting Luffy with blunt attacks


----------



## Germa 66 (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> This confirms that he learned it during the time skip. Did you even read what you posted?
> 
> "Considering how Luccis card states he learned it during the time skip, this would imply everyone else did too".


The vivre card obviously states that its possibly an error that contradicts itself because no other member of CP9 joined CP0 so its common sense that I am right.

Every CP9 member had it. Keep ignoring my point about Luffy being hurt by their blunt attacks all you’d like


----------



## Akainu (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> Still waiting for those new Akainu durability feats.
> 
> If you had any "education" at all you'd realize that your posts have more than half a dozen logic fallacies.


Still waiting for you to recognize the other extremely relevant quantities and considerations that go into battledome threads. Especially ones wherein either one or none of the characters have shown all  or even a lot of what they have. If we had it your air headed  way, it would be nigh-pointless to discuss any characters who hadn't gone all-out or near all-out. But, instead, we can discuss matchups involving characters like Roger, Akainu and Shanks precisely because we take the aforementioned quantities and variables into account.

Lol, I'm sure buddy, I forgot you're the debate expert. Lol, you're not showing it here. Keep throwing me softballs, please.


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

Germa 66 said:


> The vivre card obviously states that its possibly an error that contradicts itself because no other member of CP9 joined CP0 so its common sense that I am right.
> 
> Every CP9 member had it. Keep ignoring my point about Luffy being hurt by their blunt attacks all you’d like


I think you are the one long overdue for an eye appointment. The card you posted confirms what's in the other card. He learned it during the time skip.

You have no evidence he knew haki during Ennis lobby.


----------



## Germa 66 (May 8, 2022)

Akainu has some of the best durability feats in the verse. A bloodlusted Pops with island busting quake punches failed to kill him.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 8, 2022)

People really want Luffy to fight the Admirals and Akainu so bad?

Sure why not?

Luffy vs Akainu + Fujitora + Kizaru + Greenbull and beat all of them in an extreme diff fight with Akainu being the last admiral standing.

Now is everyone happy? Yay !

Oh and btw Luffy got some Roger sickness too so he couldn't use his Gears at all while taking them all at the same time and has to fight them in base form. Sooo Oda can finally draw the admirals with "respect" and don't need to deal with Gear 5's looney toonery.

There we go . Everyone wins.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 2


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 8, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Oda said he is admiral level. Please shut the fuck up if you can't give contrary evidence from the author of this manga. You have the nerve to tell me I am aggressively wrong when it's the author of the manga saying this.  What is wrong with you?
> 
> Yes, you are. WB was a disgrace at MF. Had multiple heart attacks and inconsistent haki. That's how much Oda had to nerf him so that admirals could 'hold him off'. Even then Akainu got downed in two hits by some of the weakest gura attacks. The one that put Lakazuki on the ground crying WB's name, is something Teach casually did seconds after getting the fruit.
> 
> ...


Oda didn’t say that, it was in a Vivre card and all it said was that during Marineford Marco fought evenly with admirals. We saw Marco try to attack Akainu with haki and it didn’t work.

Akainu didn’t get downed, he got up right after. Like I said, I don’t see any reality where Oda shows Whitebeard getting fodderized. When Whitebeard had his heart attack Akainu gutted him immediately.

I mentioned plot relevance and you said he didn’t have any, which is false. Bringing other fiction into it was done to establish what ‘plot significance’ is, cause y’all clearly don’t know.

Headcannon for now, Akainu’s position is clear. The marines had a plan for how Marineford would play out, and it seems Akainu was assigned the role of taking on Whitebeard. This is before they had any indication that Whitebeard was sick or dying.

Have we done this before? I’ve been right about A LOT.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## blueWaves (May 8, 2022)

How in the hell did this reach 19 pages lol

Reactions: Agree 3 | Funny 1


----------



## Germa 66 (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> I think you are the one long overdue for an eye appointment. The card you posted confirms what's in the other card. He learned it during the time skip.
> 
> You have no evidence he knew haki during Ennis lobby.


The card I posted acknowledges that its wrong since every CP9 member is said to have had it in Ennies Lobby and members like Jabra aren’t part of CP0 to learn such a thing over timeskip


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

Germa 66 said:


> The card I posted acknowledges that its wrong since every CP9 member is said to have had it in Ennies Lobby and members like Jabra aren’t part of CP0 to learn such a thing over timeskip


The card you posted isn't even sure of itself and states that the more likely possibility is that they learned it in order to join CP0. You're cherry picking.


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

blueWaves said:


> How in the hell did this reach 19 pages lol


Because apparently hype and plot relevance are more important than feats.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Seraphoenix (May 8, 2022)

Akainu said:


> Nah, WB's attack is both a durability and endurance feat. Akainu took two extremely devastating blows (durability) and then had enough stamina to go on a monstrous and incredible rampage (endurance). If taking an island-bifurcator to the ribs isn't a feat of durability then I'm not sure what is.


What monstrous and incredible rampage are you talking about lmfao? Beating Curiel with half the 100k marines backing him up?

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


----------



## Sablés (May 8, 2022)

Hot take: Akainu is one of the most overrated characters in this entire manga, which is incredible given he's actually cemented as really strong. But that's not enough for some people.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 5 | Winner 4


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 8, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Hot take: Akainu is the most overrated fuck in this entire manga, which is incredible given he's actually cemented as really strong. But that's not enough for some people.


I’d say the exact opposite actually. He’s the most underrated by majority of the fanbase. 

Those of us claiming he’ll be a tough EoS opponent for Luffy are fighting uphill battles to convince the masses.


----------



## The crazy hacker (May 8, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> Actually. He’s the most underrated by majority of the fanbase.
> 
> Those of us claiming he’ll be a tough EoS opponent for Luffy are fighting uphill battles to convince the masses.


EoS Luffy will be above Roger though.

Unless he fights Luffy before EoS.


----------



## featherine augustus (May 8, 2022)




----------



## Germa 66 (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> The card you posted isn't even sure of itself and states that the more likely possibility is that they learned it in order to join CP0. You're cherry picking.


And clearly only two CP9 members joined CP0 so we know the only probable correct vivre


----------



## Sablés (May 8, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> He’s the most underrated by majority of the fanbase.


Nonsense. If you made a thread, I'd wager the majority have him in their top 10.



MartyMcFly1 said:


> Those of us claiming he’ll be a tough EoS opponent for Luffy are fighting uphill battles to convince the masses.


That's not what you're claiming. You're claiming he's better than Kaido in Kaido's foremost area, despite lacking feats, simply because Akainu MIGHT be a later opponent in completely unknowable circumstances.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## A Optimistic (May 8, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> I’d say the exact opposite actually. He’s the most underrated by majority of the fanbase.
> 
> Those of us claiming he’ll be a tough EoS opponent for Luffy are fighting uphill battles to convince the masses.



that idea ended when imu got introduced. That’s the guy who’s making luffy go all out during the final war

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Akainu (May 8, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> What monstrous and incredible rampage are you talking about lmfao? Beating Curiel with half the 100k marines backing him up?


Nice asspull with that 100k number. Bottom line is akainu was confronted by Marco, various other commanders and Croc and still somehow killed a commander. What was Marco doing, fighting fodder? Why did avoid Akainu if they were right there squared up. Then again, Marco and Vista both failed to harm an unaware Akainu earlier in the war, so there's that. Lol, Akainu went through all that and still caught up to Jinbei and Luffy. The same rampage you and I both read, it's there. It was the war arc, remember?

Edit: I as wrong, 100k wasn't an asspull. Still, let's consider the context and logistics of Akainu's engagement with the commanders. 100k marines are joining in that fight in any meaningful way. Let alone logistically.


----------



## Seraphoenix (May 8, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> Oda didn’t say that, it was in a Vivre card and all it said was that during Marineford Marco fought evenly with admirals. We saw Marco try to attack Akainu with haki and it didn’t work.
> 
> Akainu didn’t get downed, he got up right after. Like I said, I don’t see any reality where Oda shows Whitebeard getting fodderized. When Whitebeard had his heart attack Akainu gutted him immediately.
> 
> ...


You don’t even know the source and you want to argue. I think we’re done here.

Also lol at Akainu being assigned to take on WB. He was assigned to play the role of getting Squardo to stab WB like some low cuttthroat. Kizaru didn’t get your headcanon memo as he quickly tried to ‘take the head’ to end the war before it started.


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 8, 2022)

Akainu can't even use ACoC, how is he supposed to damage Kaido ?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 8, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Nonsense. If you made a thread, I'd wager the majority have him in their top 10.
> 
> 
> That's not what you're claiming. You're claiming he's better than Kaido in Kaido's foremost area, despite lacking feats, simply because Akainu MIGHT be a later opponent in completely unknowable circumstances.


I’d say definitely not. From what I gather most people believe Big Mom is above him, Luffy will defeat him quickly like Blueno, Sabo will beat him, etc.

People think EoS Blackbeard and Imu will be stronger than Kaido, but Akainu will be incomparable to either.




Ebitan said:


> Akainu can't even use ACoC, how is he supposed to damage Kaido ?


I think he can.


----------



## A Optimistic (May 8, 2022)

Akainu said:


> Nice asspull with that 100k number. Bottom line is akainu was confronted by Marco, various other commanders and Croc and still somehow killed a commander. What was Marco doing, fighting fodder? Lol, akainu went through all that and still caught up to Jinbei and Luffy. The same rampage you and I both read, it's there.



we were told the marines started with 100k men. Then we were told the marines will split their remaining forces between the Whitebeard pirates and the blackbeard pirates 

the only thing we don’t know is how many marines remained out of the original 100k once they split their forces in half.

but he wasn’t pulling numbers out of his ass

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (May 8, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> You don’t even know the source and you want to argue. I think we’re done here.
> 
> Also lol at Akainu being assigned to take on WB. He was assigned to play the role of getting Squardo to stab WB like some low cuttthroat. Kizaru didn’t get your headcanon memo as he quickly tried to ‘take the head’ to end the war before it started.


You said “Oda said it”. Oda did not say it.


----------



## Sablés (May 8, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> . From what I gather most people believe Big Mom is above him


Look, it's not that I don't believe you, but you're wrong.

EDIT: Still doesn't contradict anything. BM is also in most people's top 10

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 8, 2022)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> I’d say definitely not. From what I gather most people believe Big Mom is above him, Luffy will defeat him quickly like Blueno, Sabo will beat him, etc.
> 
> People think EoS Blackbeard and Imu will be stronger than Kaido, but Akainu will be incomparable to either.
> 
> ...


You think he can, but so far nothing in the manga nor vivre card thinks he can.

We can't just simply give Akainu ACoC just because we "think" he has it bud, that's putting headcanon over the actual manga. If that's how it works Sanji fans would no longer need to be bullied by Zorotards.


----------



## Mihawk (May 8, 2022)

Of course Akainu can damage Kaido, if scrubs like Okiku or Killer can...not even a question.

Yamato has CoC but Akainu doesn't...Akainu still shits on her.

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## Akainu (May 8, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> we were told the marines started with 100k men. Then we were told the marines will split their remaining forces between the Whitebeard pirates and the blackbeard pirates
> 
> the only thing we don’t know is how many marines remained out of the original 100k once they split their forces in half.
> 
> but he wasn’t pulling numbers out of his ass




Okay, I was wrong, it wasn't a total asspull, but there's nothing to suggest Akainu had 100k marines literally standing behind him when the confrontation with Marco, Croc and the commanders occurred. And even still, it's not like 100k marines suddenly joined the fray in any logistically meaningful way whilst Akainu engaged alone at the front.


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 8, 2022)

Mihawk said:


> Of course Akainu can damage Kaido, if scrubs like Okiku or Killer can...not even a question.
> 
> Yamato has CoC but Akainu doesn't...Akainu still shits on her.


They gave him pain alright with ACoA, but how much damage do you think it gave him? 0.00001%? 0.001%?

Kaido was only starting to take real damage from Law's offense that targets his internals directly and when Zoro and Luffy started being able to use CoC in their attacks.

We are talking about "damage" in terms of "damage" that actually matters, not something that just gives him some pain and he easily recovers from.


----------



## A Optimistic (May 8, 2022)

Akainu said:


> Okay, I was wrong, it wasn't a total asspull, but there's nothing to suggest Akainu had 100k marines literally standing behind him when the confrontation with Marco, Croc and the commanders occurred. And even still, it's not like 100k marines suddenly joined the fray in any logistically meaningful way whilst Akainu engaged alone at the front.



I didn’t say akainu had 100k?

I said the marines started with 100k, and the unknown amount of marines remaining at the end of the war were ordered to split their forces in two and half of them were ordered to back up akainu

I can post the panels confirming this if you want

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Mihawk (May 8, 2022)

Ebitan said:


> Kaido was only starting to take real damage from Law's offense that targets his internals directly and when Zoro and Luffy started being able to use CoC in their attacks.



If Injection Shot (which has no CoC that we know of) can damage Kaido from within, and Zoro can leave a permanent scar on Kaido before even awakening/mastering Enma or CoC...why do you think Akainu of all people would be incapable of damaging Kaido, when he is significantly stronger than either of them?

Yamato has Advanced CoC, and she barely did jack against him besides a few superficial clashes. She even admitted inferiority straight up in spite of having it.


----------



## Akainu (May 8, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> I didn’t say akainu had 100k?
> 
> I said the marines started with 100k, and the unknown amount of marines remaining at the end of the war were ordered to split their forces in two and half of them were ordered to back up akainu
> 
> I can post the panels confirming this if you want


I was reinforcing my original post, a response to the post wherein the other member said Akainu had 100k backing him up. Even still, let's not act like 50k marines jumped into that fray.


----------



## Seraphoenix (May 8, 2022)

Mihawk said:


> Of course Akainu can damage Kaido, if scrubs like Okiku or Killer can...not even a question.
> 
> Yamato has CoC but Akainu doesn't...Akainu still shits on her.


Yes he can damage him but the damage will be too shallow. You need Advanced CotC to take Kaido down. Something we don’t even know if Akainu has.


Akainu said:


> Okay, I was wrong, it wasn't a total asspull, but there's nothing to suggest Akainu had 100k marines literally standing behind him when the confrontation with Marco, Croc and the commanders occurred. And even still, it's not like 100k marines suddenly joined the fray in any logistically meaningful way whilst Akainu engaged alone at the front.


Sabo also confronted Fuji and other marines solo. Doesn’t mean he can beat all of them.

Akainu got help and then only beat Curiel. You can even see marine fodder in the background. Marco alone was enough to stop Akainu from touching Luffy or Ace while Ace was giving his death speech. Hell Kizaru and Aokiji were also in the area when Akainu went on your imaginary rampage.


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

Akainu said:


> Projection at its finest. Someone having better shown durability =/= they have better total durability. Get it through that skull of your, although I'm beginning to wonder if your skull might be a bit malformed. Sanji has better shown durability than Rocks, so I guess he has better unshown durability too, right? Ignoramus.
> 
> You pitifully mentioned your experiences across many forums and against many "trolls" and some other tripe nonsense. You tried to paint yourself as some grizzled forum veteran but here you are having trouble with the most rudimentary logic.


We don't know anything about Rocks. He could have been a glass cannon with high attack power but low durability. Or he could have been a fragile speedster. Or maybe he was a tank with even better durability than kaido. We don't even know what his fighting style was, what kind of weapon he had, or if he had a devil fruit. All we know is that he was powerful enough for Kaido to put him in his top 5. Since we know basically nothing about Rocks we can't make any conclusions about what his durability level is.

We have seen Akainu in action. We know what his devil fruit is. We know his fighting style. We know what he can do with his haki. We know how he uses strategy. We know his stats including attack power, speed, and durability. We do not need to guess or speculate since Oda has given him plenty of screen time. The comparison to Rocks was fucking stupid just like all your other posts.

Therefore, unless we see more of Akainu, we can't assume his durability is anywhere near Kaido's for this discussion until more feats come out. You're not going to change my mind so why the fuck do you keep replying? To have the last word? Are you that childish...? 

I mentioned my experience on other forums because not one person I met ever put more emphasis on hype or plot relevance than feats. This very forum you're typing on doesn't even do things that way. So of course I'm going to point out how strange your views are.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Mihawk (May 8, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> You need Advanced CotC to take Kaido down. Something we don’t even know if Akainu has.



I think it's more like, you need Advanced CotC on _his _level to take him down. It's something Shanks clearly has. 

Yamato certainly didn't, and Luffy probably won't until next arc.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Seraphoenix (May 8, 2022)

‘Monstrous and incredible rampage’ you would think this guy was two- piecing top commanders like Marco and Jozu. But na. Just beat Curiel

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Akainu (May 8, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Sabo also confronted Fuji and other marines solo. Doesn’t mean he can beat all of them.
> 
> Akainu got help and then only beat Curiel. You can even see marine fodder in the background. Marco alone was enough to stop Akainu from touching Luffy or Ace while Ace was giving his death speech. Hell Kizaru and Aokiji were also in the area when Akainu went on your imaginary rampage.


After defeating Ronse (iirc), Sabo and Fujitora engaged in a 1 v 1. Not remotely analogous to Akainu confronting the commanders.

Nah, Akainu literally confronted Marco, Vista, Croc and a few other commanders in that panel alone. And even still you're saying Akainu had help from marine fodder while he was going up against WB commanders like that means something. Marco and Vista weren't enough to stop Akainu when they tried a combined attack. And that still doesn't explain how Marco, Vista and the others somehow allowed akainu to get past them, after brutalizing Curiel, and still make it to Luffy and Jinbei. and seriously, what are the marine fodder going to do when Akainu is launching attacks, it's not as though they'll be near him.

And, neither Kizaru or Aokiji were shown confronting the commanders or going after Luffy with the same ferocity that Akainu did. Lol, sure keep telling yourself that buddy. The only thing imaginary here is your logic.


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 8, 2022)

Mihawk said:


> If Injection Shot (which has no CoC that we know of) can damage Kaido from within, and Zoro can leave a permanent scar on Kaido before even awakening/mastering Enma or CoC...why do you think Akainu of all people would be incapable of damaging Kaido?
> 
> Yamato has Advanced CoC, and she barely did jack against him besides a few superficial clashes. She even admitted inferiority straight up in spite of having it.


Injection shot straight up attacks Kaido's internal organs with hax, I have never heard of magma capable of completely ignoring tough defenses and target Kaido's organs directly? Law's fruit has a lot of hax that magma can in no way replicate.

Zoro left a scar on Kaido when he attacked Kaido with CoC, and it was the first time Zoro ever used CoC in his attacks, and it was foreshadowing for Luffy's ACoC afterwards in the same chapter.

And when did Yamato land any meaningful ACoC blows on Kaido's body? Most of, if not all of her ACoC attacks were blocked by Kaido's kanabo.

Unless Akainu proves that he has a way of ignoring Kaido's defense or he has CoC, I don't see how he is supposed to damage Kaido. ACoA alone isn't enough btw as evident when Luffy stated that AcoA was too shallow. It has to be infused with CoC to be efficient in damaging him. Akainu's heat is also not necessarily sufficient to bypass Kaido's defenses as seen from chapter 1048 that Kaido does indeed has an insane amount of Heat resistance when he was capable of cloaking himself in heat that has not been shown to be anywhere inferior to Akainu's.

How is Akainu supposed to damage Kaido, when he does not have ACoC, and Kaido himself has insane heat resistance?

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Yes he can damage him but the damage will be too shallow. You need Advanced CotC to take Kaido down. Something we don’t even know if Akainu has


Careful, someone will probably reply "wE hAvEnT sEeN aKaInU gO aLl OuT sO yOu CaNt SaY hE dOeSnT hAvE aDvAnVeD cOTc"

Reactions: Funny 3 | Winner 1


----------



## Akainu (May 8, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> ‘Monstrous and incredible rampage’ you would think this guy was two- piecing top commanders like Marco and Jozu. But na. Just beat Curiel


Why did Marco and Vista not square up with him then, genius? Why let Curiel get mercilessly destroyed like that? Why let Akainu through to Jinbei and Luffy? Lol

You don't have to call it a rampage but he sure made the WB remnants look like shit.


----------



## Akainu (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> Careful, someone will probably reply "wE hAvEnT sEeN aKaInU gO aLl OuT sO yOu CaNt SaY hE dOeSnT hAvE aDvAnVeD cOTc"


Careful, we might see someone who thinks nobody can have better durability than another character if they have never shown it. Again, Sanji's durability is better than Rocks because Rocks hasn't shown any durability feats. Only feats matter. You know, cause that makes no fucking sense.


----------



## Germa 66 (May 8, 2022)

Mihawk said:


> Of course Akainu can damage Kaido, if scrubs like Okiku or Killer can...not even a question.
> 
> Yamato has CoC but Akainu doesn't...Akainu still shits on her.


Akainu has CoC it’s just not revealed yet.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Akainu (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> We don't know anything about Rocks. He could have been a glass cannon with high attack power but low durability. Or he could have been a fragile speedster. Or maybe he was a tank with even better durability than kaido. We don't even know what his fighting style was, what kind of weapon he had, or if he had a devil fruit. All we know is that he was powerful enough for Kaido to put him in his top 5. Since we know basically nothing about Rocks we can't make any conclusions about what his durability level is.
> 
> We have seen Akainu in action. We know what his devil fruit is. We know his fighting style. We know what he can do with his haki. We know how he uses strategy. We know his stats including attack power, speed, and durability. We do not need to guess or speculate since Oda has given him plenty of screen time. The comparison to Rocks was fucking stupid just like all your other posts.
> 
> ...


Lol you're grasping at straws. He was the captain of the strongest pirate crew at the time and was Roger's greatest rival. You're a deluded buffoon. Even still, your logic doesn't hold up. A character having better shown durability doesn't mean it'll be better overall.

We saw Akainu in action 12 years and more ago. Before haki was visualized, before AdvCoc. Before the fucking time skip. Are you seriously trying to say we've seen Akainu go all out? We can still speculate because he did things like fight Aokiji for ten days you moron. 

Lol, the Rocks analogy just shit on your extremely weak argument and you're mad about it. You're the forum veteran who uses all caps like some kind of angry retard.

Here you go again shitting on yourself like the infant you are. Therefore, unless we see more of Rocks, we can't assume his durability is anywhere near someone who has show durability feats, like Sanji. Oh waaaait a second, we can, because we have power-scaling and hype to do so and anybody with half a brain would know Rocks would smash Sanji. Do you understand now, you inbred fuck?

That's great for them. I'm sure they never discussed characters without feats like Prime Rayleigh or Rocks on those forums. Definitely.


----------



## Seraphoenix (May 8, 2022)

Akainu said:


> After defeating Ronse (iirc), Sabo and Fujitora engaged in a 1 v 1. Not remotely analogous to Akainu confronting the commanders.
> 
> Nah, Akainu literally confronted Marco, Vista, Croc and a few other commanders in that panel alone. And even still, you're saying Akainu had help from the fodder while he was going up against WB commanders. Marco and Vista weren't enough to stop Akainu when they tried a combined attack. And that still doesn't explain how Marco, Vista and the others somehow allowed akainu to get past them, after brutalizing Curiel, and still make it to Luffy and Jinbei. and seriously, what are the marine fodder going to do when Akainu is launching attacks, it's not as though they'll be near him.
> 
> And, neither Kizaru or Aokiji were shown confronting the commanders or going after Luffy with the same ferocity that Akainu did. Lol, sure keep telling yourself that buddy. The only thing imaginary here is your logic.


Sabo confronted all the marines just like Akainu. Also you didn’t remember correctly. It wasn’t  just Ronse. The fodder tried shooting him and attacking him. So yes very analogous.

vista and Marco moved Akainu away from Luffy and Ace. So they did stop him. In fact they moved him.

Akainu never touched Luffy or Jinbe after the WB pirates intervened. You’ve got the order of events incorrect. Read the manga buddy. Along with the 100k error it seems you’re not too familiar with the material.

Aokiji assisted Akainu by freezing the bay so Jinbe couldn’t escape via water. Kizaru was also close by on a ship. So your magma boy had two other admirals in the area with thousands of marines helping. It was even highlighted that they were coming from a tunnel.

You’re the last person to talk logic. First start with the baby steps and read the manga.


----------



## Mihawk (May 8, 2022)

Ebitan said:


> Injection shot straight up attacks Kaido's internal organs with hax, I have never heard of magma capable of completely ignoring tough defenses and target Kaido's organs directly? Law's fruit has a lot of hax that magma can in no way replicate.


Doflamingo stitches himself together with haxx. Marco can regenerate with haxx and restrain 2 Ancient Zoans. Big Mom's fruit is literally haxx. Teach's fruit negates other DFs with his own haxx, and Kizaru can appear anywhere because, you know, haxx...

No reason to assume that Akainu's logia; one that has been honed and mastered over decades and proven capable of melting through both a logia and a Yonko's face in battle, would be incapable of replicating a different kind of haxx  in it's own way to result in such lethality. 

The point is this: Law has no Ryuo, which was previously stated to be the only way to bypass Kaido's defences. Law has no CoTC, which was needed to bring a Yonko down. Yet not only did he bypass Hybrid Kaido's defences; he was instrumental in taking down Big Mom. 

To simply chalk it up to "haxx" rather than Law being an example of a powerful devil fruit user capable of hurting Yonko, I think misses the point. 

Speaking of replication of haxx; Akainu could theoretically replicate the dragon technique of Kaido due to his magma powers, but many do not believe it. 




Ebitan said:


> Zoro left a scar on Kaido when he attacked Kaido with CoC, and it was the first time Zoro ever used CoC in his attacks, and it was foreshadowing for Luffy's ACoC afterwards in the same chapter.


Zoro didn't know what he used. He did it subconsciously. Yes, it was CoC. However, the point is that was an inferior version of Zoro who had very little mastery over Enma, and even less so over CoC. 

It simply does not make sense to think that the Fleet Admiral of all people would not be able to damage Kaido, when someone of Zoro's caliber can. I would imagine it would just be simple common sense. And that's not shade against Zoro, he's very powerful. Just not on the FA's level. 



Ebitan said:


> And when did Yamato land any meaningful ACoC blows on Kaido's body? Most of, if not all of her ACoC attacks were blocked by Kaido's kanabo.


Exactly, which means that ACoC alone is not necessarily the only requirement needed to damage him? This helps my point as Yamato was promptly dismissed by Kaido. It has more to do with output, rather than having CoC. 

1. Law used no ACoC, yet arguably did more damage to Kaido and Big Mom than Kidd (who has it) or Yamato did. 
2. Zoro had less mastery over ACoC at the time than Yamato, yet still did more damage (likely due to Enma reopening the scar). 

Hence, it simply does not make sense to think that Akainu would be incapable of damaging Kaido, when far weaker characters have the ability to do so, regardless of whether he has CoC or not or what the degree of his mastery over it would be. 




Ebitan said:


> Unless Akainu proves that he has a way of ignoring Kaido's defense or he has CoC, I don't see how he is supposed to damage Kaido. ACoA alone isn't enough btw as evident when Luffy stated that AcoA was too shallow. It has to be infused with CoC to be efficient in damaging him.


Then it just depends on what you mean by "damage" or what you count as being substantial. Yamato has ACoC, but wasn't able to damage hi. 


Ebitan said:


> Akainu's heat is also not necessarily sufficient to bypass Kaido's defenses as seen from chapter 1048 that Kaido does indeed has an insane amount of Heat resistance when he was capable of cloaking himself in heat that has not been shown to be anywhere inferior to Akainu's.


Well isn't that Kaido's own flames? It wouldn't make sense if he would be damaged by them. We also don't know how his technique works. Seems to be a part of his Mythical Zoan devil fruit, just as how the Magu Magu is Akainu's. It's just coating. 


Ebitan said:


> How is Akainu supposed to damage Kaido, when he does not have ACoC, and Kaido himself has insane heat resistance?


By that logic, no one who hasn't been confirmed to have ACoC would be able to damage Kaido. MF WB, Garp, Prime Sengoku, Shiki, Mihawk, the list goes on...none confirmed to have ACoC. I guess they'd be unable to damage Kaido, even though far, far weaker characters have been able to.


----------



## Kirin Thunderclap (May 8, 2022)

Akainu makes people so salty, I love it.

Can't wait for yc1Akainu to face G5 Luffy in an extreme diff fight.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 2 | Optimistic 2


----------



## Akainu (May 8, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Sabo confronted all the marines just like Akainu. Also you didn’t remember correctly. It wasn’t  just Ronse. The fodder tried shooting him and attacking him. So yes very analogous.
> 
> vista and Marco moved Akainu away from Luffy and Ace. So they did stop him. In fact they moved him.
> 
> ...


But he still ended up fighting Fuji 1 v 1, who himself admitted he wasn't going hard. Still an unbelievably weak analogy.

Uh, a combined attack from them stalled Akainu and still he proceeded onward. The order is irrelevant to your point. Marco, Vista and all of them still couldn't keep Akainu from killing another of the colleagues. They failed miserably and it makes no sense as to why Marco would not have tried to square up Akainu at that point anyway. I guess he didn't want to get fisted. And regardless of the order, Akainu still got through them and had to be intercepted by Shanks. Kiuzaru and Aokiji's help manifestly occurred after akainu had done most of his pursuit.

Keep throwing softballs, weakling.

And you want to talk about logic when you're the one who used the datebook as evidence that Marco is admiral level despite datebooks being invariably secondary canon and the blatant fact that Marco never looked like he belonged in Akainu's league and with them saying only "that he fought evenly with them during the war".


----------



## Mawt (May 8, 2022)

Admiralfans in shambles rn

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## featherine augustus (May 8, 2022)

Mawt said:


> Admiralfans in shambles rn


Kaido has beat akainu in everything lol

Lethality was one aspect Akainu was superior but now with island magma form even in that Kaido is superior. At least in scale

Reactions: Winner 2


----------



## Mawt (May 8, 2022)

featherine augustus said:


> Kaido has beat akainu in everything lol
> 
> Lethality was one aspect Akainu was superior but now with island magma form even in that Kaido is superior. At least in scale


Akainu from what we've seen has literally nothing over him. His only chance is if he got an insane power boost over time skip, and even that is doubtful. Akainu's a strong dude, but Kaido's like an immovable wall.

Reactions: Winner 2


----------



## Captain Quincy (May 8, 2022)

Oda never said Akainu would find the one piece in a year. This has got to be one of the biggest misconceptions in the fandom.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


----------



## Mawt (May 8, 2022)

Captain Quincy said:


> Oda never said Akainu would find the one piece in a year. This has got to be one of the biggest misconceptions in the fandom.


Even if that were true it doesn't matter. Obviously if Akainu was the PROTAGONIST of the story and starts where Luffy starts, then he'd finish the series within a year. Same would apply if Kaido was the protagonist. Or Whitebeard. Or literally anybody who's that powerful.

If you're a protagonist it's kind of a given that you're supposed to succeed in the end, and being a top tier in the verse will help tremendously with that. In other words, plot armor + top tier character = easy story.

Reactions: Winner 4


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

Akainu said:


> We saw Akainu in action 12 years and more ago. Before haki was visualized, before AdvCoc. Before the fucking time skip. Are you seriously trying to say we've seen Akainu go all out?


I _never_ said we've seen Akainu go all out or that we know the full extent of his abilities.

This is the third time you've created a straw man argument. I suggest you actually read what someone wrote before having the gall to question their intelligence.


----------



## Mawt (May 8, 2022)

The fact that Akainu fans rely on that as a clutch in a serious debate shows how lacking they are in actual solid arguments. The best they have to go on is a headcanon future Akainu and "muh narrative power structure" BS. If we're actually comparing feats and portrayal, Kaido takes it.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 2


----------



## Akainu (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> I _never_ said we've seen Akainu go all out or that we know the full extent of his abilities.
> 
> This is the third time you've created a straw man argument. I suggest you actually read what someone wrote before having the gall to question their intelligence.


Then how can you say Kaidou is in another zip code unless referring only to shown feats? How do you not understand this? You're going to sit there and spout some idiotic drivel about how feats only matter to you but that doesn't divest your position of its illogicality. 

This is the nth time you've not understood why your premises don't lead to your conclusion.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 8, 2022)

Akainu said:


> Then how can you say Kaidou is in another zip code unless referring only to shown feats? How do you not understand this? You're going to sit there and spout some idiotic drivel about how feats only matter to you but that doesn't divest your position of its illogicality.
> 
> This is the nth time you've not understood why your premises don't lead to your conclusion.


I said based on feats, Kaido's durability is in another zip code. That is *completely different* from you claiming I said "we've seen all there is to Akainu and what we've seen is him going all out". There is limited data on Akainu, but the data we do have shows Kaido is clearly above him in durability so it's only logical to give Kaido the edge in durability when discussing this matchup.

Again, to use Shanks or Weavil or Sabo as examples, we've seen them in action, but based on feats we _can't_ assume their durability is anywhere close to Kaido's. I am _*not*_ going to assume a character is in the same ballpark as a durability tank like Kaido _*unless*_ we see similar/better durability feats for those characters. Attempting to scale someone based purely on hype/plot relevance is usually pointless because it's a _completely_ subjective conversation with very little to back it up other than my head canon vs your head canon. I've said this over and over again. The ONLY time I will power scale based purely on hype is if we get a statement from the narrator stating x character is far superior to y character.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## Sablés (May 8, 2022)

Akainu said:


> Careful, we might see someone who thinks nobody can have better durability than another character if they have never shown it. Again, Sanji's durability is better than Rocks because Rocks hasn't shown any durability feats. Only feats matter. You know, cause that makes no fucking sense.


Strawman at its finest.

Akainu has no feats of durability on Kaido's level, therefore does not deserve the benefit of the doubt =/= Nobody lacking feats can be more durable than Kaido.

Everytime I check back in, your logic deteriorates.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


----------



## Inferno Jewls (May 8, 2022)

Fel1x said:


> fixed it for you


Hey atleast if it's an extreme diff match then I have no problem I don't hate sabo and besides I know Oda will make that shit spectacular


----------



## Akainu (May 8, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> I said based on feats, Kaido's durability is in another zip code. That is *completely different* from you claiming I said "we've seen all there is to Akainu and what we've seen is him going all out". There is limited data on Akainu, but the data we do have shows Kaido is clearly above him in durability so it's only logical to give Kaido the edge in durability when discussing this matchup.
> 
> Again, to use Shanks or Weavil or Sabo as examples, we've seen them in action, but based on feats we _can't_ assume their durability is anywhere close to Kaido's. I am _*not*_ going to assume a character is in the same ballpark as a durability tank like Kaido _*unless*_ we see similar/better durability feats for those characters. Attempting to scale someone based purely on hype/plot relevance is usually pointless because it's a _completely_ subjective conversation with very little to back it up other than my head canon vs your head canon. I've said this over and over again. The ONLY time I will power scale based purely on hype is if we get a statement from the narrator stating x character is far superior to y character.


That I can agree with, but you also said that because Kaidou's shown durability was better, than it must be better than Akainu's total durability. That was the implication of your assertion. Again, the data we have shows that Kaidou has shown better durability than akainu, not that he explicitly has better durability than akainu. To repeat and clarify, Kaidou's shown durability feats are better, I've never disavowed that, but that does in no way mean his overall durability is better than Akainu's.

I believe Kaidou to be the most durable character in the series. His shown durability feats are the best we've seen. But we can still not conclude from that, in the end, his durability is greater than Akainu's. That does not follow. I also believe that Kaidou will ultimately have better overall durability than akainu, however, that is nothing anyone can say with certitude.

I agree once again here, we cannot use feats when discussing characters such as Shanks, but that is exactly why we use hype, scaling and portrayal. We know via basic logic that despite Shanks having infinitely less feats than Kaidou, there are innumerable other things found throughout the manga that indicate he is absolutely on Kaidou's level without him having to have said feats. This is why it is patently foolish to disregard hype and scaling. Shanks hasn't shown any feats remotely near Kaidou's but everyone and their grandmother knows he's at that level. Same with Akainu, and any other top-tier who cannot match other top-tiers for feats.

But if you use your logic, then you again cannot assume that any character, even monsters like Rocks, Roger, and Prime Garp have similar durability to characters we know to be beneath their level merely because said characters have shown more feats.

Hype and scaling are not subjective though. We have absolute no Rocks feats but his hype and former status alone (which are not subjective) are more than enough for us to place him in the top-tier regardless of the fact that he doesn't have a single shown feat. Again, Akainu is a prime example as well. Oda has shaped him up to be a character of freakish strength and as one of Luffy's greatest hindrances, with hype being a contributing factor. Look at Shanks, again, he has almost no shown feats, but we know he intercepted Kaidou from attacking WB, which would make it very unlikely that he is not at that level. Even if he doesn't have Kaidou's durability specifically, we must logically assume that his durability is such that he can tango with Kaidou. Kizaru asking to go betwixt BM and Kaidou also does not involve a shown feat, but allows any reader to sensibly assume that he is not afraid to fight either of them and is likely at their level. The entire BB crew running from Akainu and leaving behind Bonney isn't so much a shown feat as it is direct hype for Akainu. Kaidou had no shown feats when we saw Doflamingo shit his pants at the mere mention of angering him; that was sheer hype for Kaidou and it provided a sensible and objective route to the conclusion that Kaidou would fodderize Doffy, all based on hype. These are not subjective opinions. These are manga occurrences. Accurately measuring a character's power does not solely require feats. I understand you prefer them, but hype  and scaling has been effectively used to discuss OP power levels since time immemorial. Aokiji didn't need to show a feat when he first appeared, because we had Robin adequately hype him up as one of the WG's greatest powers.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Akainu (May 8, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Strawman at its finest.
> 
> Akainu has no feats of durability on Kaido's level, therefore does not deserve the benefit of the doubt =/= Nobody lacking feats can be more durable than Kaido.
> 
> Everytime I check back in, your logic deteriorates.


Horribly Wrong. Not sure you know what a straw man is. That is literally what MrAnalogies position is. If you think a character is more durable than another merely because they've shown greater durability feats then you've missed the obvious conclusion that perhaps the character who hasn't shown the feats is still more durable than the character who has shown the feats.

I have agreed from the beginning that Kaidou has displayed better durability feats than Akainu (or anyone for that matter). You have awfully missed my point, because I never once have asserted that Akainu deserved the benefit of the doubt. MrAnalagies was saying that we could conclude that Kaidou had overall better durability than Akainu merely because he had shown better durability feats than Akainu. This is not logical and does not constitute proof. Just because one character has shown more (doesn't even have to better) durability feats than another character does not mean that the character who has shown more durability feats is canonically more durable. With such logic, I could make ridiculous statements such as Crocodile is more durable than Rocks or Prime Rayleigh because neither of those characters have shown any durability feats whilst Crocodile has. Showing more or better durability feats than another character doesn't mean you're more durable than that character. It quite glaringly means only that you've only shown better durability feats than that character.

Every time I check back in, I see you've yet to use logic at all. Explain to me, then, how Akainu not currently having durability feats on the level of Kaidou's proves that Kaidou is overall more durable. The only sound conclusion we could derive from such a fact would be that Kaidou has merely shown greater durability feats up to this point, not that he is unquestionably more durable. There is the possibility that Akainu is more durable and just hasn't shown it yet. So no, trying to assert Kaidou is overall more durable than Akainu merely because he's shown better durability feats is not proof of overall superiority of any kind. There is a chance that Akainu is more durable than Kaidou despite the incredible feats Kaidou has shown. Shown durability =/= overall durability. That's the distinction I wanted to make very clear. Especially when we're discussing characters who don't have many feats or who haven't done anything feat-wise since 2010.

Come on, show me where my logic is flawed, wiseass.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 9, 2022)

Akainu said:


> Horribly Wrong. Not sure you know what a straw man is. That is literally what MrAnalogies position is. If you think a character is more durable than another merely because they've shown greater durability feats then you've missed the obvious conclusion that perhaps the character who hasn't shown the feats is still more durable than the character who has shown the feats.
> 
> I have agreed from the beginning that Kaidou has displayed better durability feats than Akainu (or anyone for that matter). You have awfully missed my point, because I never once have asserted that Akainu deserved the benefit of the doubt. MrAnalagies was saying that we could conclude that Kaidou had overall better durability than Akainu merely because he had shown better durability feats than Akainu. This is not logical and does not constitute proof. Just because one character has shown more (doesn't even have to better) durability feats than another character does not mean that the character who has shown more durability feats is canonically more durable. With such logic, I could make ridiculous statements such as Crocodile is more durable than Rocks or Prime Rayleigh because neither of those characters have shown any durability feats whilst Crocodile has. Showing more or better durability feats than another character doesn't mean you're more durable than that character. It quite glaringly means only that you've only shown better durability feats than that character.
> 
> ...


Do you know that trying to proof a negative is a fallacy..?



*SHIFTING THE BURDEN OF PROOF*

The burden of proof is always on the person making an assertion or proposition. Shifting the burden of proof, a special case of argumentum ad ignorantium, is the fallacy of putting the burden of proof on the person who denies or questions the assertion being made. *The source of the fallacy is the assumption that something is true unless proven otherwise.*

The person making a negative claim cannot logically prove nonexistence.* And here's why: to know that a X does not exist would require a perfect knowledge of all things (omniscience). To attain this knowledge would require simultaneous access to all parts of the world and beyond (omnipresence). Therefore, to be certain of the claim that X does not exist one would have to possess abilities that are non-existent.* Obviously, mankind's limited nature precludes these special abilities. The claim that X does not exist is therefore unjustifiable. As logician Mortimer Adler has pointed out, the attempt to prove a universal negative is a self- defeating proposition. These claims are "worldwide existential negatives." They are only a small class of all possible negatives. They cannot be established by direct observation because no single human observer can cover the whole earth at one time in order to declare by personal authority that any “X” doesn't exist.

see also: , Science or Not 

*Burden of Proof*

From X, which is the assertion, is not yet disproved. Therefore, X.

*This is a Fallacy. If X is unproven, then it is unproven and remains unproven until reason and evidence is provided or secured to establish the proof or high probability of the claim being true..*

Examples:

(1)Of course God exists. Has anyone ever proven otherwise?

(2)Of course pink elephants inhabit Mars. We don't see them because they blend in. Can you prove otherwise?

(3) Of course Santa Claus exists. No one has ever proved, to my knowledge, that Santa Claus does not exist. And if one were to fly to the North Pole and say: Well, look, there's no toy factory there. A believer could argue: Well, Santa Claus knew you were coming and moved his operations to the South Pole. So you fly down to the South Pole. No Santa Claus factory, toy factory there. So the believer would say: Oh, he moved it back up to the North Pole.

(4) Of course leprechauns exist. Has anyone ever proven otherwise?

(5) Of course ghosts exist. Has anyone ever proven otherwise?

(6) Of course yellow polka dotted aliens exist. Has anyone ever proven otherwise?

(7) Of course X exist. Has anyone ever proven otherwise?



*Rejecting the Burden of Proof*

_*There are those who will refuse to accept that the burden of proof rests with those making positive claims. They do want to claim that:*_


*"miracles exist unless someone proves that they do not exist."*
*"souls exist unless someone proves that they do not exist."*
*"angels exist unless someone proves that they do not exist."*
_*"deities exist unless someone proves that they do not exist."*_
_Those who behave in this manner are rejecting the use of reason. They want to believe that X is true or that X exists and to believe it without evidence or even against evidence to the contrary. They want to have their beliefs remain intact and not subject to refutation or to reexamination for fear of needing to alter their beliefs. They rest their beliefs in X existing or in X being true not on evidence and reason but on FAITH and even on BLIND FAITH and when against reason and counterevidence on willfully BLIND FAITH. Such behavior is within the realm of Religion and not at all acceptable amongst those who would pursue Philosophical discourse or who would ask that reason and evidence support claims._

You PROOF that Akainu has durability beyond Kaido's by showing evidences of it, *not by shifting the Burden of Proof*.

Reactions: Winner 4 | Disagree 1


----------



## Gokou08 (May 9, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> this is why he's brought up. It's the tears. Otherwise, a good deal of the people here like his cap more than his character.


I like his character a lot to be honest, and I'm also the few ones who currently put Kaido above Akainu, since feats= my headcannon. 
Still, I believe Akainu will be retconed to full power since we didn't saw it. 
Oda changed to many things, he will probably have CoC like Sengoku and Awakening.

Reactions: Informative 1 | GODA 1


----------



## Gokou08 (May 9, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> Most of what he's done is shit for current OP ( meaning God and Kaido ) with all due respect


And you're right, but we also have to be honest, that was 500 chapters ago. 

Akainu still has some of the best feats, specially beating Aokiji and coming only with scars when the latter lost one leg. 

Akainu doesn't beat Kaido as of now.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Friendly 1


----------



## TheWiggian (May 9, 2022)

Akainu killed someone stronger than Kaido

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Tier Specialist 2


----------



## Duhul10 (May 9, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> Akainu killed someone stronger than Kaido

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## TheWiggian (May 9, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


>





Where was Kaidou?

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Gokou08 (May 9, 2022)

Akainu literally was the only character to ever break Luffy's will.

And luffy sweats and Shivers by his name.
This is about all the people who think Akainu is losing to Sabo.

That's ridiculously to be honest.
Sabo has actually no business against Akainu.

It was Luffy who witnessed Akainu killing Ace.
It was Luffy who had his will broken (he even doubt the fact of becoming PK, which is huge huge)
It was Luffy who got a scar.

Not Sabo, Sabo only knew by some newspapers.

Akainu VS Luffy is set in stone whether people like it or not.
And the reason why people don't want it is probably because Oda is making an Extreme Diff fight between the two.
Making Luffy PU more and after that Fighting Imu.


----------



## Duhul10 (May 9, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> Where was Kaidou?


Right where he was supposed to be, above WB's already false title  as the manga itself has proven


----------



## TheWiggian (May 9, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> Right where he was supposed to be, above WB's already false title  as the manga itself has proven



But i though WSP is gospel in your ears? 



			
				Duhul10 said:
			
		

> Why should I cry  the WSP just turned a 3 vs 1 in a 1vs1





			
				Duhul10 said:
			
		

> Kaido is confirmed as WSP by the manga and 1v1 king by the novel and by oda





			
				Duhul10 said:
			
		

> now statements are only fame as well. First they did not believe the WSC, now they can't accept the WSP. What comes next ?





			
				Duhul10 said:
			
		

> WSP and above Akainu ( confirmed by Oda )





			
				Duhul10 said:
			
		

> Wsc, wsp, "island of the strongest", ace novel
> Let's wait for another title





			
				Duhul10 said:
			
		

> he is confirmed as the WSP
> and at the same time he is confirmed as above Akainu
> Do I need to draw it for you to understand ?





			
				Duhul10 said:
			
		

> WSC/WSP vs Jesus obviously



Let's remain consistent here aswell   



Where was Kaidou?

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Siskebabas (May 9, 2022)

Kaidou level durability Akainu, truly a monster

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Akainu (May 9, 2022)

Ebitan said:


> Do you know that trying to _proof_ a negative is a fallacy..?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your misunderstanding of my position would be comical if it wasn't so sad. I never once even implied that because there is no concrete proof that Kaidou's overall durability is greater than Akainu's overall durability that said proof doesn't exist. How could you make such a gargantuan misinterpretation and then spew a veritable truckload of manure from your lectern with such conviction without actually taking the time to comprehend my position? It's impressive, really, in much the same way that the largest shit on record is, but impressive nonetheless.

What a grand waste of your time. There is blatantly no burden of proof fallacy here. What negative claim did I lay? MrAnalogies laid the claim that because Kaidou had shown better durability feats than Akainu, that he was therefore, without a doubt, a more durable character overall than Akainu.

If his logic were sound, he would have claimed only that Kaidou's shown durability was better than Akainu's shown durability, not that Kaidou's shown durability somehow acted as confirmation that his total durability "was in a different zip code" from Akainu's, as he did. He laid the claim and therefore assumed the burden of proving said claim. Simple as that. He could have specified at any point that he was solely discussing displayed durability, i.e., feats of durability, to make sure said distinction was established.

This is all to again point out that showing better durability feats than another character =/= actually being more durable than that character. Consider the countless variables.

Indeed, and I can't believe I have to write out a tautology, but having better feats of durability than another character = having better feats of durability than another character. It's a truism. I'm not sure what you were reading, and I am dubious of your reading comprehension in general at this point, and also of your comprehension of the very fallacy you so pointlessly laid out.

But I never laid any claim for which I needed to prove. I never once said Akainu has durability that outclasses Kaidou. I must have, during my debate with MrAnalogies, have said a dozen times that I believe Kaidou is more durable, will ultimately be more durable, and has shown better durability feats than Akainu. Somehow, you missed this in its entirety to try some pitiful attempt to educate me on something you yourself don't seem to understand.

Please, since you wasted all of your time writing that wall of fetid excrement, go back and find in any of my posts where I said Akainu had durability that outclassed Kaidou. Once you're inevitably unsuccessful and find that I never said such a thing, you'll realize you just blew so much hot air out of your ass that you gave Greta Thunberg chills.

I'm having a hard time typing while laughing at your crash course in a basic fallacy that you yourself don't seem to understand. If someone here claims that character x's durability is greater than character y's total durability only because of shown feats, then it is up to them prove that. He who layeth the claim must provideth the proof. But there's a salient disparity between shown durability and actual durability. I never once said Akainu's durability was better than Kaidou's. I don't know if it was selective reading or incomparable ignorance on your part, but again, I never claimed that Akainu's durability > Kaidou's, and thus harbor no burden of proof.

On the other hand, the other guy kept claiming that shown durability was equivalent to total durability. A false equivalency. And for the billionth time, if you want to say that Character A is a more durable character than Character B, then that is up to you to prove. And the problem here was that he could prove only that Kaidou's shown durability was greater than Akainu's shown durability. A fact, that I did not and cannot dispute. A fact that I never tried to dispute, for it is a fact. To go further and claim that Character A is overall more durable than Character B only because Character A has better shown durability feats does not constitute proof. Ergo the burden of proof is on him.

You say *"And here's why: to know that a X does not exist would require a perfect knowledge of all things"* and this is precisely the reason why MrAnalogies was wrong in claiming that Kaidou's overall durability > Akainu's overall durability. Nobody knows the extent of Akainu's overall durability. What we do know is that the durability Kaidou has shown outclasses Akainu's shown durability. We cannot from this conclude that, in all measures, Kaidou is more durable than Akainu. This is not a leap of logic or anything, it is outright obvious.

You cannot adequately provide any proof that Kaidou is overall more durable than Akainu because as MrAnalogies himself said, we haven't seen the extent of Akainu's abilities. Indeed, he can only sensibly claim, and therefore can sensibly provide proof showing only that Kaidou's durability feats are better than Akainu's. Which, for the nth time, I agree with and have never deviated from. MrAnalogies himself admitted he was clinging to feats, which makes sense from his perspective. Because the only reasonable claim he could make is that Kaidou's durability feats > Akainu's. But, and this isn't some esoteric inference, that doesn't prove that Kaidou's total durability > Akainu's total durability. Just like Kaidou having better durability feats than Rocks or Roger doesn't mean his durability is in actuality better than either of theirs. So, when MrAnalogies tried to claim that Kaidou's durability was unequivocally greater than Akainu's simply because he had shown better feats, that was an unsound deduction. And the burden of proof was on him to prove that one can say a character has better overall durability only because their durability feats are better. But, if you think even just a little about it, all this proves is that Kaidou's durability feats are better than Akainu's durability feats. It is not proof that Kaidou will have greater durability than Akainu when all is said and done, which is the distinction he made. Even still, I believe Kaidou might remain the most durable character we'll ever see.

So considering I never laid the claim that Akainu > Kaidou in durability (I said the opposite numerous times actually), then the burden of proof is very obviously not on me.

I would not be surprised if Kaidou were the most durable character we ever see. But having *shown* better durability feats than another character does not equate to being more durable than said character. It literally only proves that said character has *shown *better durability than the other character. A thinking being would never say that a character like Sanji, who has shown better durability feats than Rocks, must therefore have better durability than Rocks. A ridiculous claim, but one that nonetheless follows the aforesaid logic. This is the logical fallacy with which I took problem. The burden of proof is on he who asserted the claim, which I did not. I merely pointed out the unsound logic in saying a characters durability feats being greater than an another character's durability feats constitutes incontrovertible proof that the character with greater durability feats is indeed more durable overall than the character without or with lesser durability feats. This is an elementary conclusion.

Ironically it would seem you need this refresher: 

At the end of your bloated post you say "You PROOF(sic) that Akainu has durability beyond Kaido's by showing evidences of it, *not by shifting the Burden of Proof*."

But not once did I ever make this claim, in a single one of my posts. You wrote all of this extraneous bullshit because of a puerile misunderstanding on your part. The bottom line is: one character having better durability feats than the another characters is proof only that said one character has better durability feats than the other character. It is manifestly NOT proof that the one with better shown durability feats is actually and overall more durable. This is no claim for which I need to provide proof, this is the revelation of unsound logic within another's claim. Zoro having better shown durability feats than Rocks does not mean Zoro is more durable than Rocks. It means only, no more and no less, that Zoro currently has better durability feats than Rocks.

I never claimed any of the tripe you somehow derived from my posts. Show me where I said Akainu > Kaidou in any way. Show me where I laid a claim for which I had the burden of proof because all I did was point out the unsound logic in one of MrAnalogies claims.

And just so you know, for posterity's sake, that in some cases (not relevant here, sorry for you) that you can prove a negative:


----------



## Duhul10 (May 9, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> But i though WSP is gospel in your ears?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Kaido is also wsp via his wsc title and Kidd and Killer's confirmation, yes. WB only held the title due to having the strongest crew and only possibly being the strongest when he gained the title. Recently, not even his men knew how sick he was. aLainu got dropped by a wreck

Reactions: Winner 2 | Tier Specialist 5


----------



## TheWiggian (May 9, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> Kaido is also wsp via his wsc title and Kidd and Killer's confirmation, yes. WB only held the title due to having the strongest crew and only possibly being the strongest when he gained the title. Recently, not even his men knew how sick he was. aLainu got dropped by a wreck



So in WB's case Sengoku's, Buggy's and all the other characters confirmation means nothing


----------



## Duhul10 (May 9, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> So in WB's case Sengoku's, Buggy's and all the other characters confirmation means nothing


the war iself denied it   Sengoku spoke from his memories

and lol, Buggy, the east blue fodder


----------



## TheWiggian (May 9, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> the war iself denied it   Sengoku spoke from his memories
> 
> and lol, Buggy, the east blue fodder



You keep dodging the question where Kaido was when WB was the WSP. I wonder why?


----------



## Duhul10 (May 9, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> You keep dodging the question where Kaido was when WB was the WSP. I wonder why?


he wasn't introduced back then   . Also Wb was once the wsp indeed. The guy had immense strength and the strongest crew.

The moment Kaido was introduced, Pampersbeard and the sadmirals became old news. 10+ years old news now to be exact.


----------



## Shrike -- Warning (May 9, 2022)

This thread has had lots of flaming and bans will be handed out. I don't wanna lock it, so please keep it civil from now on even if you really really think the other side is dumb. If you resort to calling each other morons in your posts and don't chill as time goes on, there's no point to making this thread stay open. 

We laxed a lot, but this crossed the line many times over. If you don't want to see it locked, chill.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## TheWiggian (May 9, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> he wasn't introduced back then   . Also Wb was once the wsp indeed. The guy had immense strength and the strongest crew.
> 
> The moment Kaido was introduced, Pampersbeard and the sadmirals became old news. 10+ years old news now to be exact.



All i need to know is that WB was WSP while Kaido was alive. We don't need to go beyond that point, WB > Kaido. Have a great day Duhul-kun


----------



## Duhul10 (May 9, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> All i need to know is that WB was WSP while Kaido was alive. We don't need to go beyond that point, WB > Kaido. Have a great day Duhul-kun


Who cares about what you need to know  
Information is only relevant when you can do something right with it. That is not your case. I accept that you live in the past and your brain can't surpass that point. Until then, Kaido > Pampersbeard ( was, is and will be, as the author portrayed it )


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 9, 2022)

You know, even say, we allow the notion for sick old hakiless MF WB to be the strongest to past as a notion (which is stupidly hilarous btw).

What's stopping the argument for Kaido to have grown even stronger and surpassed him after the two year time skip from being made???

Characters grow stronger all the time in One Piece, and current Kaido's feats completely outshine everything shown by MF WB and Akainu.

WB being WSP would only be relevant if he is STILL alive currently since we are comparing to current Kaido.

So bringing up Old WB being WSP from fancy databook or what not, is still irrelevant when discussing about Kaido from two years later， because current Kaido's feats shit on MF WB from two years ago.

Kaido is currently the World's strongest and to determine how he measures to Old WB who was wanked to be WSM two years ago, we compare their most recent feats.

The conclusion is that current Kaido >>>> Old WB from two years ago.

If you want to argue that MF old WB was "stronger" because he held the "WSP" title? Sure, then current Kaido has grown even stronger than two years ago and surpassed even that. It doesn't contradict anything we have seen so far.


The World's Strongest title is only valid relative to the timeline after all, even if you are the World's Strongest today, it doesn't stop you from being surpassed by someone else tomorrow.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1


----------



## Fel1x (May 9, 2022)

22%

may be against Beckman Akainu has some chances of winning. but not against Kaido. completely different tiers
admirals are YC1 tier

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 1 | Disagree 1


----------



## TheWiggian (May 9, 2022)

Ebitan said:


> You know, even say, we allow the notion for sick old hakiless MF WB to be the strongest to past as notion (which is hilarious from the grand scheme of things).
> 
> What's stopping the argument for Kaido to have grown even stronger and surpassed him after the two year time skip from being made???
> 
> ...



You guys laugh at the possiblity of someone like Sakazuki and Kuzan growing stronger after a 10 days death match, but have no issues of pushing an agenda where an older character that just drinks and does nothing in Wano becomes stronger?



If powercreep is a thing and is the reason for you to put Kaido over Old WB you got to apply the same to the opponents coming after Kaido. Either way it won't look too well for the so called WSC.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Tier Specialist 1


----------



## Turrin (May 9, 2022)

Chip Skylark said:


> *Mr. Anaologies points out the inconsistencies in there being a pattern throughout the story*
> 
> Turin: “I’m not talking about the _whole_ story I’m just talking about P2”
> 
> ...


I’m not wrong. The only arc villains he talked about were Enel and Lucci; and Lucci is way stronger then Enel. The only reason I’ve limit it to P2 is because the scaling is even more obvious for folks that don’t understand proper scaling in P2; and because I don’t need to keep destroying people like him on Enel vs Lucci over the course of dozens of threads

Reactions: Tier Specialist 2


----------



## Turrin (May 9, 2022)

Akainu said:


> I understand the trope, Turrin. But, Katakuri =/= Kaidou and the arbirtrary increase in power between subsequent villains and their predecessors is precisely that, arbitrary. All we can sensibly assume is that each main villain Luffy fights is  stronger than the preceding villain, not the degree to which they are stronger.
> 
> Kaidou is the WSC, a Yonkou, former member of the Rocks pirates, a man thought by King to be JoyBoy, a man who BM ( a monstrous freak herself) has said is practically invinvincible, a man who has fought Roger, Prime Garp, Primebeard, and countless others. A man who has mastered AdvCoC, the most potent ability in OP. The man, who Oda himself said "if it's 1 on 1, Kaidou will win." It's not logical that power levels would jump much farther beyond his. Luffy literally awakened JoyBoy and still Kaidou is still pushing him. And though Im is an innominate quantity, being 3x stronger than Kaidou is ostensibly ludicrous given everything we've seen from and heard of him.
> 
> ...


It’s not arbitrary the gap in P2 between current and successive villains keeps increasing in how large it is. That means there is a clear non arbitrary pattern of the power cliffing getting more intense as the story goes on. Additionally every Shonen’s FV has historically had the most intense power cliffing in the entire story.

I get that Kaidou seems strong to you but so has insert many other Shonen Villains here on my to be eclipsed by the FV.
—-
On top of that every single arc power up for Luffy ever has more then doubled his power. So if he even gets one more arc power up to extreme diff the FV, the FV is going to be more then double the strength of Kaidou. And it’s highly unlikely Luffy has no more power ups in the final arc(s) of a Shonen.


----------



## Duhul10 (May 9, 2022)

Fel1x said:


> 22%
> 
> may be against Beckman Akainu has some chances of winning. but not against Kaido. completely different tiers
> admirals are YC1 tier


The AW community stands at about 40 members. This was a known fact. Look at who voted and you'll recognize at least 80% of the names. About 15 of them are vocal, rest are silent killers whom you almost never see posting.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 9, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> *You guys laugh at the possiblity of someone like Sakazuki and Kuzan growing stronger after a 10 days death match, but have no issues of pushing an agenda where an older character that just drinks and does nothing in Wano becomes stronger?*
> 
> 
> 
> If powercreep is a thing and is the reason for you to put Kaido over Old WB you got to apply the same to the opponents coming after Kaido. Either way it won't look too well for him.


I don't deny the possibility of Sakazuki and Kuzan from getting stronger from their 10 day match.

But we have no way of knowing _how_ strong they are currently unless we see their current feats.

And since they have not "updated" their feats ever since Marineford or Punk Hazard, we cannot use their "unknown feats" in debates.

So of course if we want to debate, we can only take reference from the feats they each have shown so far, otherwise there is literally nothing to debate about.

Personally I do think that debating Current Kaido vs Current Akainu is very difficult because Current Akainu is still an unknown, but it doesn't stop people from creating such threads.

Now, if people want to debate Current Kaido vs MF Akainu, then we have something concrete to debate on and ofc Current Kaido destroys him.

As for Akainu being the final Luffy villian and all that, those are literally all just speculation that has literally not happened in the manga yet and we don't even know what circumstances it would be nor if it would even happen in the first place. Debating Akainu vs Kaido based on the future premise of the possibility of future Akainu giving a stronger G5 Luffy an extreme diff fight is shaky and is dangerously hinging in the realm of fanfiction.

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## TheWiggian (May 9, 2022)

Ebitan said:


> I don't deny the possibility of Sakazuki and Kuzan from getting stronger from their 10 day match.
> 
> But we have no way of knowing _how_ strong they are currently unless we see their current feats.
> 
> ...



We know exactly where they move strengthwise. Both were able to compete with a WB that cockblocked the other 3 yonko for decades even in his old age.

If Kaido can destroy Akainu why couldn't he destroy Old WB? That's where your feats wank ends because you know he cannot do it. Featswise he can destroy Big Mom + her entire kingdom but he doesn't.



That's how silly your logic is.


----------



## Duhul10 (May 9, 2022)

Ebitan said:


> I don't deny the possibility of Sakazuki and Kuzan from getting stronger from their 10 day match.
> 
> But we have no way of knowing _how_ strong they are currently unless we see their current feats.
> 
> ...


There's no point in debating. Akainu's bosses themselves never considered him as an option when it comes to defeating Joyboy. Their best hope was to prevent that from happening. At the moment they're just some Kaido fanboys, whom they also fear angering

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 9, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> We know exactly where they move strengthwise. Both were able to compete with a WB that cockblocked the other 3 yonko for decades even in his old age.
> 
> *If Kaido can destroy Akainu why couldn't he destroy Old WB? That's where your feats wank ends because you know he cannot do it. Featswise he can destroy Big Mom + her entire kingdom but he doesn't.*
> 
> ...


And what's stopping Kaido from being far stronger than two years ago even if we allow your MF WB to be WSP wank to pass?


His current feats all shits on MF WB btw.


----------



## Akainu (May 9, 2022)

Turrin said:


> It’s not arbitrary the gap in P2 between current and successive villains keeps increasing in how large it is. That means there is a clear non arbitrary pattern of the power cliffing getting more intense as the story goes on. Additionally every Shonen’s FV has historically had the most intense power cliffing in the entire story.
> 
> I get that Kaidou seems strong to you but so has insert many other Shonen Villains here on my to be eclipsed by the FV.
> —-
> On top of that every single arc power up for Luffy ever has more then doubled his power. So if he even gets one more arc power up to extreme diff the FV, the FV is going to be more then double the strength of Kaidou. And it’s highly unlikely Luffy has no more power ups in the final arc(s) of a Shonen.


It is absolutely somewhat arbitrary, we are not aware of any remotely precise metric by which subsequent villains are stronger than those that precede them. Again, everyone and their grandmother knows that shonen trope.

Kaidou doesn't just seem strong to me. He is unequivocally strong. Unbelievably strong, in fact. The most hyped character in OP besides Roger, Primebeard and Rocks. He's not like any of Luffy's other villains. His titles, hype and feats and the fact he's fighting JoyBoy make it dubious that power levels will continue to increase at the intervals you seem to assume they have.

You say this stuff with such conviction, almost as though Oda came out and confirmed Luffy doubles in power after every arc. There is paltry evidence suggesting, given everything we've seen from and know about Kaidou, that the next villain will be twice as strong, and its certainly not something you can say with the certitude you do. 2x Kaidou is fucking absurdity. Shonen tropes aren't shonen laws.

If there existed an individual within the WG twice as strong as Kaidou, e.g., Im, then they likely would have decimated the pirate population long ago. Of course I'm not denying the possibility that EOS BB could be such a character, but nothing sensible is suggesting he'll double the herculean potency of Kaidou. The whole 2x thing is ostensibly too arbitrary.


----------



## TheWiggian (May 9, 2022)

Ebitan said:


> And what's stopping Kaido from being stronger than two years ago even if we allow your MF WB to be WSP wank to pass?
> 
> 
> His current feats all shits on MF WB btw.



His current feats allow him to defeat Big Mom and all her family and crew by himself? Why doesn't he do that?


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 9, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> *His current feats allow him to defeat Big Mom and all her family and crew by himself? Why doesn't he do that?*


Because they are literally in a *Yonko Alliance*?? The Strawhats can destroy Heart Pirates on their own but why didn't they do that?


----------



## TheWiggian (May 9, 2022)

Ebitan said:


> Because they are literally in a *Yonko Alliance*?? The Strawhats can destroy Heart Pirates on their own but why didn't they do that?



BB is featless too, Kaido could literally grab 2 yonko spots by himself without even involving his crew. Why doesn't he do that? He has the feats for that, which obviously mean everything to you. He doesn't care about balance, he wants war.


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 9, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> BB is featless, Kaido could literally grab 2 yonko spots by himself without even involving his crew. Why doesn't he do that? He doesn't care about balance, he wants war.


You lost me, how is this related to WB again? You sound like you are shifting the goal posts every where.


----------



## TheWiggian (May 9, 2022)

Ebitan said:


> You lost me, how is this related to WB again?



Guess the feat argument can only go that far.   



Ebitan said:


> And what's stopping Kaido from being far stronger than two years ago even if we allow your MF WB to be WSP wank to pass?
> 
> 
> *His current feats all shits on MF WB btw.*



They also shit on Big Mom's feats, Shanks feats, BB's feats and yet he cannot defeat a single Yonko with his entire empire combined.


----------



## Duhul10 (May 9, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> BB is featless too, Kaido could literally grab 2 yonko spots by himself without even involving his crew. Why doesn't he do that? He has the feats for that, which obviously mean everything to you. He doesn't care about balance, he wants war.


What's he gonna do with the yonko seats  OP is the goal, not ruling over totto land 

Also, no he can't defeat both another yonko and his/her crew/army.

The yonko have been established to be close in power ( they + their crews ), so Kaido being the strongest individually, doesn't mean much


----------



## TheWiggian (May 9, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> What's he gonna do with the yonko seats  OP is the goal, not ruling over totto land
> 
> Also, no he can't defeat both another yonko and his/her crew/army.
> 
> The yonko have been established to be close in power ( they + their crews ), so Kaido being the strongest individually, doesn't mean much



Why is he in a stalemate with the other 3 then?


----------



## Duhul10 (May 9, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> Why is he in a stalemate with the other 3 then?


Because of what you were basically supposed to read in the post you replied to...


----------



## Turrin (May 9, 2022)

Akainu said:


> It is absolutely somewhat arbitrary, we are not aware of any remotely precise metric by which subsequent villains are stronger than those that precede them. Again, everyone and their grandmother knows that shonen trope.
> 
> Kaidou doesn't just seem strong to me. He is unequivocally strong. Unbelievably strong, in fact. The most hyped character in OP besides Roger, Primebeard and Rocks. He's not like any of Luffy's other villains. His titles, hype and feats and the fact he's fighting JoyBoy make it dubious that power levels will continue to increase at the intervals you seem to assume they have.
> 
> You say this stuff with such convictions, almost as though Oda came out and confirmed Luffy doubles in power after every arc. There is paltry evidence suggesting, given everything we've seen from and know about Kaidou, that the next villain will be twice as strong, and its certainly not something you can say with any certitude. 2x Kaidou is fucking absurdity. Shonen tropes aren't shonen laws.


1) Well actually there is a pretty clear linear increase

Luffy needed one new power to beat Doffy: G4

Luffy needed two new powers to beat Kat: FS and Snakeman

Luffy needed three new powers to beat Kad: ACoA, CoC Coating, and G5

With that said I’m not going to die on the sword that Luffy is going to get precisely 4 power ups to beat the FV. But the fact of the matter is we can see the power cliffing has clearly increased drastically over time in P2; and as such it’s pretty fair to say it’s a conservative estimate that Luffy will only get x2 amp to beat the FV. 
——
Didn’t Pain, Aizen, Frieza, etc… all give off this same exact vibe in their major battles? Not really seeing how anything your staying about Kaidou is much different from the power these characters showed respective to what we had seen before in the series and yet they were still eclipsed by the FV of the series WAY more then simply the FV being only x2 stronger. 
—-
No one said every arc so let’s not start straw-mans. But as far as conviction goes, it sounds to me like your saying I’m guessing, but I’m not lol. Literally every major power up Luffy has gotten has way more then doubled his power. Unless you disagree that G2/3 was not a double power buff over base, same thing with training with Raleigh, same thing with G4, or Snakeman/FS; or please don’t say this arc his major power amps haven’t been more then double his start of wano power.


----------



## TheWiggian (May 9, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> Because of what you were basically supposed to read in the post you replied to...


 
So he is not miles ahead of the likes of MF WB as you guys claim, he was not even the WSP when WB was alive.   

Featwise he can beat BB + his crew by himself because they're pretty much featless, which is the driving force of your stupid Kaido wank.

Same applies to Big Mom and her crew + family aswell as Shanks and his crew.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 9, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> Guess the feat argument can only go that far.
> 
> 
> 
> They also shit on Big Mom's feats, Shanks feats, BB's feats and yet he cannot defeat a single Yonko with his entire empire combined.


Can MF WB defeat a single Yonko crew on his own? Also even if he defeats a single Yonko crew on his own it would come at a great price even if Kaido wins in the end.


----------



## Duhul10 (May 9, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> So he is not miles ahead of the likes of MF WB as you guys claim, he was not even the WSP when WB was alive.
> 
> Featwise he can beat BB + his crew by himself because they're pretty much featless, which is the driving force of your stupid Kaido wank.
> 
> Same applies to Big Mom and her crew + family aswell as Shanks and his crew.


What an utterly stupid way of seeing it  I will consider it pure subjectivism cause otherwise it'd make think even less of you

Alright, so
He is ahead of MF Wb, clearly and undeniably to every being of logical thinking. Feats say it, no... they actually "SCREAM" it, aside from novels, statements, the gorosei fearing him and such.

Bb already calls him a dreaded monster, with the next step being "daddy", so that's clearly a sign of inferiority. With BM, we know clearly now.
Kaido is also confirmed to be wsp by Kidd and Killer.

The desk lackey's bosses have him below Kaido as well, as the guy is not even an option when it comes to whom Kaido is fighting right now.

And so on, and so forth

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## Duhul10 (May 9, 2022)

Ebitan said:


> Can MF WB defeat a single Yonko crew on his own? Also even if he defeats a single Yonko crew on his own it would come at a great price even if Kaido wins in the end.


The guy went full mad  he now thinks that Kaido having better feats than everyone else actually somehow helps his point

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 9, 2022)

Man all the mental gymnastics from the AW community  

If they can't win something, they just keep bullshitting their way out of it.


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 9, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> The guy went full mad  he now thinks that Kaido having better feats than everyone else actually somehow helps his point



He is desperate .


----------



## featherine augustus (May 9, 2022)

@TheWiggian and his fear of Kaido


----------



## Akainu (May 9, 2022)

Turrin said:


> 1) Well actually there is a pretty clear linear increase
> 
> Luffy needed one new power to beat Doffy: G4
> 
> ...


I see the linear increase, but that in no way means he's explicitly doubling in power after every major fight.

I know it's a guarantee he'll get a power increase but the 2x thing is nigh-groundless considering the sheer stats and feats of Kaidou. Again, shonen tropes are not shonen laws. DB and Naruto power-ups do not constitute as evidence though. OP is a completely different series whose characters exist in completely different contexts to the MC. And Kaidou is the WSC. a man who claimed he could be fought by only 5 people in the universe (a dubious claim itself, but disregard that for now). It's reasonable to say that Kaidou is essentially at FV-level or nigh-Fv-level at least. Luffy will get stronger upon his defeat, but not by two-fold.

Lol it's not a straw man. You literally said "On top of that every single arc power up for Luffy ever has more then doubled his power". You are guessing, unless Oda has explicitly said he has more than doubled his power with every major power up. Even were that true, that does not necessitate that the next power up follow the same paradigm. What I am saying is that actually trying to quantify the discrepancies between power-ups is entirely subjective and its entirely possible his next power up doesn't even approach doubling G5 JoyBoy.


----------



## TheWiggian (May 9, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> What an utterly stupid way of seeing it  I will consider it pure subjectivism cause otherwise it'd make think even less of you
> 
> Alright, so
> He is ahead of MF Wb, clearly and undeniably to every being of logical thinking. Feats say it, no... they actually "SCREAM" it, aside from novels, statements, the gorosei fearing him and such.
> ...



All those feats and hype and yet when he faces someone like Big Mom it's just a stalemate 



Ebitan said:


> Man all the mental gymnastics from the AW community
> 
> If they can't win something, they just keep bullshitting their way out of it.



So now feats don't mean everything?

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 9, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> All those feats and hype and yet when he faces someone like Big Mom it's just a stalemate
> 
> 
> 
> *So now feats don't mean everything?*


??? What do you mean?


----------



## featherine augustus (May 9, 2022)

How can anyone in their right mind  think MF WB > Kaido

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 9, 2022)

featherine augustus said:


> How can anyone in their right mind  think MF WB > Kaido


This is the final straw the AW community has to cling onto, otherwise with current Kaido's feats he would literally be capable of taking on the C3 in MF on his own and still come out the victor, they can't allow that obviously.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


----------



## Duhul10 (May 9, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> *All those feats and hype and yet when he faces someone like Big Mom it's just a stalemate*
> 
> 
> 
> So now feats don't mean everything?


I'll take this as a concession, a shameful way of getting out of the situation you're in, as I believe you are normally above this level ( I really don't believe you're that low to believe that encounter which ended in an alliance, with both opponents in base meant either of them going all out or such )

So thank you for your concession, it was nice smashi...debating you

Reactions: Winner 2


----------



## TheWiggian (May 9, 2022)

Ebitan said:


> ??? What do you mean?



Feats, feats, feats... when he actually fights someone who can compete it's just a stalemate, almost like with Vista 



Ebitan said:


> This is the final straw the AW community has to cling onto, otherwise with current Kaido's feats he would literally be capable of taking on the C3 in MF and still come out the victor, they can't allow that obviously.



Why doesn't he do it?  

Is he afraid? I thought he wants the biggest war? And where else could he get a bigger war than against the world government and marines? Why was he stopped by a featless cripple? 



Duhul10 said:


> I'll take this as a concession, a shameful way of getting out of the situation you're in, as I believe you are normally above this level ( I really don't believe you're that low to believe that encounter which ended in an alliance, with both opponents in base meant either of them going all out or such )
> 
> So thank you for your concession, it was nice smashi...debating you



I see you're trying to flee instead of explaining how a character with the feats and hype that can solo another Yonko crew by himself just doesn't wipe out his rival.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


----------



## Turrin (May 9, 2022)

Akainu said:


> I see the linear increase, but that in no way means he's explicitly doubling in power after every major fight.
> 
> I know it's a guarantee he'll get a power increase but the 2x thing is nigh-groundless considering the sheer stats and feats of Kaidou. Again, shonen tropes are not shonen laws. DB and Naruto power-ups do constitutes as evidence though. OP is a completely different series whose characters exist in completely different contexts to the MC. And Kaidou is the WSC. a man who claimed he could be fought by only 5 people in the universe (a dubious claim itself, but disregard that for now). It's reasonable to say that Kaidou is essentially at FV-level or nigh-Fv-level at least. Luffy will get stronger upon his defeat, but not 2x.
> 
> Lol it's not a straw man. You literally said "On top of that every single arc power up for Luffy ever has more then doubled his power". You are guessing, unless Oda has explicitly said he has more than doubled his power with every major power up. Even were that true, that does not necessitate that the next power up follow suit. What I am saying is that actually trying to quantify the discrepancies between power-ups is entirely subjective and its entirely possible his next power up doesn't even approach doubling G5 JoyBoy.


1) I’m not saying he is doubling after every major villain. You guys basically made that up in your discussion. I’m saying if he only doubles in power one more time by the time he beats the FV, that’s a conservative estimate

2) I’m not saying someone has a gun to Oda’s head and he has to follow a specific Shonen Troupe. I’m saying so far he’s been following this and heavily leaning into it even more in P2. So it’s more likely that he does then he doesn’t.

Also Kaidou being said to be WSC isn’t even as big of hype as what Aizen, Pain, and Frieza had; or someone like Toguro, or I can go on for quite a while. So this really doesn’t mean much to me.

With that said if you want to believe Kaidou will be the one Shonen villain in history (or at least that I’m aware of) that defied this troupe and isn’t at least x2 weaker then the FV; and that Oda will suddenly shy away from the power cliffing in the endgame of One Piece unlike any Shonen author ever. Well that’s your opinion, I’m just asking you to acknowledge why it’s an extremely unlikely opinion to be the case based on any metric by which we can evaluate it.

3) Then it’s a miscommunication, by power ups I’m only referring to significant upgrades like Gears and Haki Powers, not just passive growth.

Once again how am I guessing which of these major power ups wasn’t double his power? And it’s not subjective as we know how Luffy performed before these power ups and we can objectively see the difference in how he performs after them. If he can’t beat Blueno who has x4 less do tiki then Lucci before G2/3; and then can fight Lucci who is further amped by his Zoan afterwards, we can pretty clearly tell objectively G2/3 we’re a x4+ increase in power for Luffy. That’s just one example but we can walk through all of them if you would like.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


----------



## Duhul10 (May 9, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> Feats, feats, feats... when he actaully fights someone who can compete it's just a stalemate, almost like with Vista
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Because Kaido doesn't have the feats to solo BM and her crew ( which means thousands of people ) and nor can he do it against the WBP.
What he has are feats to put him above anyone else in a 1v1, not in a 1vThousands ( some of which are top and commander tiers )

Do you realize you make no sense and probably have no idea wth you're talking about ? 


Oh and I allow you to stop posting that 10 yo auxilliary  nobody gives a shit about an old denied title


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 9, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> Feats, feats, feats... when he actually fights someone who can compete it's just a stalemate, almost like with Vista
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are you okay bro?

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## TheWiggian (May 9, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> Because Kaido doesn't have the feats to solo BM and her crew ( which means thousands of people ) and nor can he do it against the WBP.
> What he has are feats to put him above anyone else in a 1v1, not in a 1vThousands ( some of which are top and commander tiers )
> 
> Do you realize you make no sense and probably have no idea wth you're talking about ?
> ...



Ofc he does lol, they cannot even harm him, he can burn them all with Flame Dragon Torch. You talk so much about feats and titles but you doubt Kaido if he can destroy a few fodders? If that's the case, how is he ever going to surpass Old WB?
 



Ebitan said:


> Are you okay bro?



Why don't you give Kaido the credit he deserves by feats?

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


----------



## Big king (May 9, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> Who cares about what you need to know
> Information is only relevant when you can do something right with it. That is not your case. I accept that you live in the past and your brain can't surpass that point. Until then, Kaido > Pampersbeard ( was, is and will be, as the author portrayed it )



The lack of self awareness in this post is amusing. You talk of the author's portrayal while completely ignoring how the author used some of the most knowledgeable characters in the series to Portray WB as the WSP. Instead, you'll go through mental gymnastics to invalidate these characters' opinions. Then you'll turn around and use the opinion of NW rookie pirates with far less knowledge as if they were gospel. Just hilarious if you ask me.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 1


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 9, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> Ofc he does lol, they cannot even harm him, he can burn them all with Flame Dragon Torch. You talk so much about feats and titles but you doubt Kaido if he can destroy a few fodders? If that's the case, how is he ever going to surpass Old WB?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No I am serious bud, are you okay?


----------



## TheWiggian (May 9, 2022)

Ebitan said:


> No I am serious bud, are you okay?



So feats don't mean everything?   



			
				Ebitan said:
			
		

> His current feats all shits on MF WB btw.



You weren't serious with this then? Where you trolling or just wanking without any common sense?


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 9, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> So feats don't mean everything?
> 
> 
> 
> You weren't serious with this then? Where you trolling or just wanking without any common sense?


Are you okay bro?


----------



## Duhul10 (May 9, 2022)

Big king said:


> The lack of self awareness in this post is amusing. You talk of the author's portrayal while completely ignoring how the author used some of the most knowledgeable characters in the series to Portray WB as the WSP. Instead, you'll go through mental gymnastics to invalidate these characters' opinions. Then you'll turn around and use the opinion of NW rookie pirates with far less knowledge as if they were gospel. Just hilarious if you ask me.


A stupid post, as expected.
Sengoku was not knowledgeable about WB's condition ( cause I guess the miserable attempt to build an argument was based on this ), neither was Buggy of course. Hell, MARCO HIMSELF, had no idea about the extent of Wb's downfall. Gtfo of here with this desperate attempt of a post which had many words, but so, so little substance.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 3


----------



## TheWiggian (May 9, 2022)

Ebitan said:


> Are you okay bro?



Thanks for bowing down and admitting you weren't serious


----------



## Duhul10 (May 9, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> Ofc he does lol, they cannot even harm him, he can burn them all with Flame Dragon Torch. You talk so much about feats and titles but you doubt Kaido if he can destroy a few fodders? If that's the case, how is he ever going to surpass Old WB?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This guy must be trolling  are you really trying to build and argument of Kaido not being the strongest by desperately trying to prove he is?

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 9, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> Thanks for bowing down and admitting you weren't serious


Just... answer this question, are you okay?

It is simple one, why are you ignoring it?

Does it mean you are not okay?

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 9, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> This guy must be trolling  are you really trying to build and argument of Kaido not being the strongest by desperately trying to prove he is?


That's why I am legit concerned for his mental health right now.

It is not even funny anymore.


----------



## Duhul10 (May 9, 2022)

Ebitan said:


> Just... answer this question, are you okay?
> 
> It is simple one, why are you ignoring it?
> 
> Does it mean you are not okay?


Ask him to blink twice if he is held captive


----------



## Fel1x (May 9, 2022)

Wiggian and Turrin against common sense

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Duhul10 (May 9, 2022)

Ebitan said:


> That's why I am legit concerned for his mental health right now.
> 
> It is not even funny anymore.


Nah, he's just so desperate in maintaining his idol on a pedestal that he can easily derail because of it.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## TheWiggian (May 9, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> This guy must be trolling  are you really trying to build and argument of Kaido not being the strongest by desperately trying to prove he is?



You should really treat Kaido with more respect.



Ebitan said:


> Just... answer this question, are you okay?
> 
> It is simple one, why are you ignoring it?
> 
> Does it mean you are not okay?



I got the feeling you ran out of arguments and cannot post anything else, thanks for playing


----------



## Duhul10 (May 9, 2022)

Fel1x said:


> Wiggian and Turrin against common sense




Wiggy, Turrin and the boys in their war against logic

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 9, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> You should really treat Kaido with more respect.
> 
> 
> 
> *I got the feeling you ran out of arguments and cannot post anything else, thanks for playing  *


Not really, I am more concerned about your mental health actually. You are showing all the signs right now and it is not even funny.


----------



## Conxc (May 9, 2022)

Kaido extreme. He’s clearly the strongest. Akainu should be a 99.5 to his 100

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Akainu (May 9, 2022)

Turrin said:


> 1) I’m not saying he is doubling after every major villain. You guys basically made that up in your discussion. I’m saying if he only doubles in power one more time by the time he beats the FV, that’s a conservative estimate
> 
> 2) I’m not saying someone has a gun to Oda’s head and he has to follow a specific Shonen Troupe. I’m saying so far he’s been following this and heavily leaning into it even more in P2. So it’s more likely that he does then he doesn’t.
> 
> ...


1. That is by no means a conservative estimate unless you are completely disregarding the inimitable hype, feats and portrayal of Kaidou. You're literally saying that doubling the power of the strongest living entity on OP is conservative. It just doesn't compute.

2. Okay, I get that power increases will continue with each fight, but the degree to which it increases doesn't have to stay the same, doesn't have to follow any particular pattern and almost certainly won't follow the pattern you're asserting after Kaidou's incomparable display.

I'm interested in what hype they had that could literally surpass being called the strongest living thing on land, sea or in air. But even still, you're talking about completely different mangas as though the context is the same, so that means absolutely nothing to me.

Do you know for certain that Kaidou would be the only shonen villain to refute your beloved trope? Any proof for that statement, because there are quite a few shonens out there. Again, you refer to this 2x power-up not only as if it's Oda's law, but shonen law. It's obvious Luffy will get stronger after his bout with Kaidou, but the 2x thing is an asspull that you're trying to frame as immutable shonen law.

I've already said that such a power-up is unlikely because Kaidou is literally at the top of the top. If it's Kaidou, take him in a 1 v 1. That's precisely what makes getting much stronger than him unlikely. Luffy had to awaken a god-based fruit to even begin to really match him. Any power up doubling that seems farcical.

3. My misunderstanding then.

It is subjective, Turrin, if you're providing a metric that you yourself contrived, e.g., your double power up theory. Again, you're completely throwing numbers out there, such as this x4 increase. It could've been a x5 increase, or a x3 increase, but any such assertion is a completely subjective guess at best. Even if by some chance you were correct on some power increases, it would still be via pure luck as there does not exist any accurate metric by which to measure subsequent power ups or even the disparities in power-levels between villains themselves, further convoluting this matter. There are simply too many variables. Again, if you want to go through all of them, knock yourself out, but do not act as though your assumptions are accurate nor, even in cases wherein they are, that they would continue to be accurate in other scenarios.


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 9, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> You guys laugh at the possiblity of someone like Sakazuki and Kuzan growing stronger after a 10 days death match, but have no issues of pushing an agenda where an older character that just drinks and does nothing in Wano becomes stronger?
> 
> 
> 
> If powercreep is a thing and is the reason for you to put Kaido over Old WB you got to apply the same to the opponents coming after Kaido. Either way it won't look too well for the so called WSC.


I have no issue with the possibility of Akainu growing stronger after the time skip. That is certainly within the realm of possibility.

When it comes to vs debates I don't go off of "possibilities", I go off of what's shown in the manga. When Oda updates Akainu's stats/feats then we can explore this thread again.

Reactions: Winner 2


----------



## Fel1x (May 9, 2022)

Ebitan said:


> Not really, I am more concerned about your mental health actually. You are showing all the signs right now and it is not even funny.


come on, don't make it even more personal. this thread gonna be closed at such rate

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## TheWiggian (May 9, 2022)

Kaido wankers talking about common sense  






Ebitan said:


> Not really, I am more concerned about your mental health actually. You are showing all the signs right now and it is not even funny.



Good debate even thought it drifted off-topic because your feat argument couldn't cut it anymore.    



MrAnalogies said:


> *I have no issue with the possibility of Akainu growing stronger after the time skip.* That is certainly within the realm of possibility.
> 
> When it comes to vs debates I don't go off of "possibilities", I go off of what's shown in the manga. When Oda updates Akainu's stats/feats then we can explore this thread again.



It starts with Kaido surpassing WB as the WSP. We don't know if he did, we only know that WB was the WSP while Kaido was alive. So it's basically the same just applied to Kaido.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2 | Winner 2


----------



## Big king (May 9, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> A stupid post, as expected.
> Sengoku was not knowledgeable about WB's condition ( cause I guess the miserable attempt to build an argument was based on this ), neither was Buggy of course. Hell, MARCO HIMSELF, had no idea about the extent of Wb's downfall. Gtfo of here with this desperate attempt of a post which had many words, but so, so little substance.




So the current Fleet admiral and his thousands of informants aren't knowledgeable of the condition of the enemy that's about to wage a war on them?

Kidd doesn't even know what advanced Haki is, but please tell me more about how he is super reliable on who the strongest pirate in the world is. Your boy Kaido stated Haki is the greatest power in the world and I'm supposed to believe the words of someone whose knowledge of that power system is lacking? It's no coincidence that the titles and statements surrounding your boy are nothing but rumours.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 9, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> Kaido wankers talking about common sense
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It pierced your heart.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 9, 2022)

Fel1x said:


> come on, don't make it even more personal. this thread gonna be closed at such rate


Ok sure.


----------



## Big king (May 9, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> Kaido wankers talking about common sense
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Does Killer even know about Advance Haki? His captain doesn't

Reactions: Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 1


----------



## Duhul10 (May 9, 2022)

Big king said:


> So the current Fleet admiral and his thousands of informants aren't knowledgeable of the condition of the enemy that's about to wage a war on them?
> 
> Kidd doesn't even know what advanced Haki is, but please tell me more about how he is super reliable on who the strongest pirate in the world is. Your boy Kaido stated Haki is the greatest power in the world and I'm supposed to believe the words of someone whose knowledge of that power system is lacking? It's no coincidence that the titles and statements surrounding your boy are nothing but rumours.


Oh, an AW member, thought so, ok.

Yes, Sengoku and his many, many informants didn't know sh*t about WB, given the fact that not even the guy who slept 10 feet from him didn't know the extent.

Kidd and Killer's statement was denied by nothing, on the contrary and these guys have been around for some time in the NW.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


----------



## TheWiggian (May 9, 2022)

Big king said:


> Does Killer even know about Advance Haki? His captain doesn't



Killer knows as much about Haki as his subordinate Kid:

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 2


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 9, 2022)

I like how this thread inevitably derailed into another wsc vs wsm debate. It's completely irrelevant given how Akainu got his cheeks clapped by a dying sick old WB who could barely use haki. It wasn't like Akainu _won_ that fight.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 1


----------



## Seraphoenix (May 9, 2022)

MrAnalogies said:


> I like how this thread inevitably derailed into another wsc vs wsm debate. It's completely irrelevant given how Akainu got his cheeks clapped by a dying sick old WB who could barely use haki. It wasn't like Akainu _won_ that fight.


Well,  you clearly haven't met the right admiral fans yet. Insert, "Akainu took two blindside island splitters and took half of WB's head in return. He knew he won the fight so he left WB for dead and went after Luffy".

Reactions: Funny 3 | Tier Specialist 1


----------



## Kirin Thunderclap (May 9, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Well,  you clearly haven't met the right admiral fans yet. Insert, "*Akainu took two blindside island splitters and took half of WB's head in return. He knew he won the fight so he left WB for dead and went after Luffy*".


I'm trying to find the lie in that statement.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 6 | Winner 2 | Optimistic 1


----------



## Grinningfox (May 9, 2022)

This thread stopped being funny about 10 pages ago

Reactions: Funny 1 | Informative 1 | Disagree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


----------



## MrAnalogies (May 9, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Well,  you clearly haven't met the right admiral fans yet. Insert, "Akainu took two blindside island splitters and took half of WB's head in return. He knew he won the fight so he left WB for dead and went after Luffy".


I never understood the comparison.

-Unlike Marineford WB, Kaido doesn't cough up blood trying to use haki. He has shown advanced mastery of all 3 forms at the highest level.

-Unlike WB, Kaido doesn't suffer grave wounds from people far weaker than him like Squard due to diminished reflexes. Kaido has future sight and can avoid high tier speed attacks with ease.

-Unlike WB, Kaido doesn't need IVs and Viagra for stamina, he has demonstrated the most impressive stamina in the entire series by far. Kaido also has passive regeneration.

-Unlike WB, Kaido isn't limited to just punches and spear slashes, be has a wide variety of tools and attacks. He has drunken mode, Boro breath, air slashes, can rapidly change forms, etc.

-Unlike WB, Kaido has high heat resistance and probably won't melt given he can literally ignite himself and breathes fire.

-Unlike WB, Kaido can fight at any range being able to become huge and use long range attacks.

-Unlike WB, Kaido would not hesitate to use lethal force.

Point being, even if for the sake of argument Marineford WB was stronger than current Kaido, it doesn't mean much. We know for a fact the yonko we're stalemating each other and were all relatively close in overall power. WB wasn't "leagues" ahead of him and certainly not the Medicare version of WB. Kaido has way more going for him than just raw strength even if for the sake of argument you believe Akainu has gotten stronger in 2 years.

Reactions: Winner 2


----------



## Kirin Thunderclap (May 9, 2022)

Grinningfox said:


> This thread stopped being funny about 10 pages ago


No one's forcing you to look at/read the thread.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


----------



## TheWiggian (May 9, 2022)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> I'm trying to find the lie in that statement.



Same. I was pleasantly surprised to see a yonko fan being so honest

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Grinningfox (May 9, 2022)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> No one's forcing you to look at/read the thread.


Outside of amusement I’m waiting for good answers for why Akainu is stronger.


----------



## featherine augustus (May 9, 2022)

@TheWiggian and his delusional takes

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Duhul10 (May 9, 2022)

featherine augustus said:


> @TheWiggian and his delusional takes


They're going rough, aLainu's close to getting below 20

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Seraphoenix (May 9, 2022)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> I'm trying to find the lie in that statement.


Then I'll give you the same advice I gave @Akainu , read the manga.


----------



## Turrin (May 9, 2022)

Akainu said:


> 1. That is by no means a conservative estimate unless you are completely disregarding the inimitable hype, feats and portrayal of Kaidou. You're literally saying that doubling the power of the strongest living entity on OP is conservative. It just doesn't compute.
> 
> 2. Okay, I get that power increases will continue with each fight, but the degree to which it increases doesn't have to stay the same, doesn't have to follow any particular pattern and almost certainly won't follow the pattern you're asserting after Kaidou's incomparable display.
> 
> ...


1) I’m saying it’s conservative based on Power Scaling of P2 One Piece thus far and Most if not all Shonen’s. Saying Kaidou will be different is not actually addressing anything I’m saying.

2) I’m not talking about what has to happen. I’m talking about what’s likely.  Not sure why you keep being this up.

3) Frieza was the strongest in the Universe, Pain was called invincible, etc…. Their hype eclipses Kaidou WSC title by far

4) Look man even if you want to say their might be a few Shonen Manga where a villain like Kaidou isn’t eclipsed by the FV, simply because I’m not going to argue with you every Shonen power scaling in existence (we would be here all day) that would still make those examples a minority, and make your stance less likely then mine.

5) Also there is no proof Kaidou is top of the verse; as we don’t know how strong Roger or OG Joy Boy were, so that’s not even a provable premise. At best you have a debatable case for Kaidou currently being the strongest and we don’t know if that’s even true as their are contentions with his title. But even if he was there are many examples of characters in Shonen being the strongest alive to only be eclipsed later on

6) But those literally aren’t numbers I provided but the authors numbers he provided via Doriki. Oda doesn’t need to state Luffy is x4 stronger if he has him beat someone objectively x4 stronger then Blueno who he couldn’t beat prior to the power amps. There can be objectivity without a direct statement


----------



## trance (May 9, 2022)

Fel1x said:


> Wiggian and Turrin against common sense


ok mr. "akainus 60 to other admirals 40"

Reactions: Funny 1 | Friendly 1


----------



## Ushiromiya Battler (May 9, 2022)

featherine augustus said:


> @TheWiggian and his delusional takes





Ebitan said:


> AW community sure is loud
> 
> If not for the polls, I thought that Akainu was the one having a 78% support judging from the posts and page numbers.
> 
> AW community be working Overtime today


AW community sure is loud 

If not for the polls, I thought that Akainu was the one having a 78% support judging from the posts and page numbers.

AW community be working Overtime today

Reactions: Funny 3


----------

