# Lex Luthor vs Goku



## Suzumebachi (Nov 28, 2006)

How much prep, with all his resources does it take for Lex Luthor to be able to defeat Goku?


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## Wesley (Nov 28, 2006)

I think Sayianman Gohan would be a better match up.  Goku to Lex just wouldn't be worth his time and vice versa.  Goku isn't a crime fighter and doesn't stand for days gone by ideals, apple pie, the American Way, while Lex isn't a fighter. 

Gohan on the other hand is JUSTICE INCARNATE!


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## Endless Mike (Nov 28, 2006)

Lex poisons his food.

GG.


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## Sesshoumaru (Nov 28, 2006)

Lex Luthor cannot defeat Goku, even with prep.

He CAN defeat Gohan with prep.  Goku is not a superhero like his son.


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## Endless Mike (Nov 28, 2006)

A superhero is someone with superpowers that fights evil.

I think he qualifies....


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## Suzumebachi (Nov 28, 2006)

> Goku is not a superhero like his son.




I dont see what difference that makes.


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## Wesley (Nov 28, 2006)

Well, motivations are important in a fight.  They are characters afterall.  It's one of the faults of Outskirts I guess.  Everyone is bloodlusted and out of character more often then not.


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## Hagen (Nov 28, 2006)

With enough preptime Luthor could take on the entire DBverse.


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## Sesshoumaru (Nov 29, 2006)

Locard said:


> With enough preptime Luthor could take on the entire DBverse.



OFT


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## Giovanni Rild (Nov 29, 2006)

Kakarot does what Ka-El should have. Kill that dangerous bastard


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## earthshine (Nov 29, 2006)

In red sun(not cannon, but awesome nontheless), it was stated that if lex could talk  with superman, he could convince him to commit sucide.


goku is dumb as a brick when it comes to anything but fighting, so I think lex zould convince him to do the same(maybe just set up some elaborate ploy that makes goku think the only way to win is to sacrifice himself)


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## Piekage (Nov 29, 2006)

Assuming Lex knows what he's up against, not very long.


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## konflikti (Nov 29, 2006)

earthshine said:


> In red sun(not cannon, but awesome nontheless), it was stated that if lex could talk  with superman, he could convince him to commit sucide.
> 
> 
> goku is dumb as a brick when it comes to anything but fighting, so I think lex zould convince him to do the same(maybe just set up some elaborate ploy that makes goku think the only way to win is to sacrifice himself)



I'm pretty sure Brainiac was messing with Supes there. Not to mention that Red Son Lex seemed somewhat more intelligent than his main continiuity counterpart.


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## mystictrunks (Nov 29, 2006)

It depends on how motivated Lex is. If given enough time and enough motivation  Lex would come at Goku with insane tech, and tons of hired villians. Heck he could probably  get aid from Apokalips somehow. 

If it was a straight fight with no prep then Lex would go down in no time, but thats not how Lex fights.

But I'll give the fight to Goku anyway,speed blitz ftw.


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## Birkin (Nov 29, 2006)

Still doesn't change the fact that Goku can fly and blow up the planet :>


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## satanchrist (Nov 29, 2006)

Goku owns Lex Luthor Lex can't do jack shit to Goku unless Goku is somehow weakened by Kryptonite.


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## Perfect Moron (Nov 29, 2006)

Goku can be poisoned, just to name one thing.


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## jplaya2023 (Nov 29, 2006)

stupid thread. Goku isnt an idiot like superman and doesnt have any glaring weaknesses. However goku may try to eat kryptonite seeing a shiny green rock pointed towards him. lol


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## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:


> stupid thread. Goku isnt an idiot like superman



Goku is pretty much the definition of an idiot. Superman, on the other hand, is quite intelligent.



> and doesnt have any glaring weaknesses.



He needs to breathe. He's vulnerable to disease. etc.



> However goku may try to eat kryptonite seeing a shiny green rock pointed towards him. lol



Yes, because Lex would use a material that is only effective against Kryptonians on someone who is not Kryptonian....

Idiot.


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## Guy Gardner (Nov 29, 2006)

If Lex were to take maybe a week to study Goku's past, he'd pull out a fast-acting virus strain, delay Goku by talking (As is normally the case in DBZ), and watch as Goku began to convulse as the virus took hold of his system.

Hell, he wouldn't even have to calculate it out beyond maybe _2_ decimal points this time.


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## Birkin (Nov 29, 2006)

That's just so unlikely to happen, if it was going to happen (1 in a million chance) it would depend if the "DBZ heaven" is there, reincarnation that is.


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## Guy Gardner (Nov 29, 2006)

Huh? What the hell are you talking about?

By the by...



konflikti said:


> I'm pretty sure Brainiac was messing with Supes there. Not to mention that Red Son Lex seemed somewhat more intelligent than his main continiuity counterpart.



The letter in Mrs. Luthor's pocket should be enough proof to show you how wrong you are.


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## Birkin (Nov 29, 2006)

For starters, what poison are you talking about? How would he be infected? By eating?


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## Guy Gardner (Nov 29, 2006)

Infinite_Justice said:


> For starters, what poison are you talking about? How would he be infected? By eating?



Poison?

An airborne virus, you idiot. Him just being on the battlefield with Lex would be enough to get him. Goku has shown a tendency to talk to his opponents before attacking. Lex could easily keep him going for a few minutes before Goku starts feeling faint and weak.

By the by, blowing up the planet would kill _Goku_ as well, since he needs _air_.


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## jplaya2023 (Nov 29, 2006)

wow people are seriously arguing for luthor in this matchup. 

Insanity


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## Gunners (Nov 29, 2006)

You know the desease Goku was hit by wasn't some weak ass virus, I think Goku has probably taken poison before I don't really know but it was stated that the virus was so strong it killed a Super Sajjin.

It wasn't a common cold, so whether Luthor could get something that would put Goku down I don't know.


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## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

gunners said:


> You know the desease Goku was hit by wasn't some weak ass virus, I think Goku has probably taken poison before I don't really know but it was stated that the virus was so strong it killed a Super Sajjin.
> 
> It wasn't a common cold, so whether Luthor could get something that would put Goku down I don't know.



By analyzing his biology and genetically engineering it....

Also it was stated that the virus was just a normal virus that was going around on earth, it wasn't supernatural or created artificially or anything.


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## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:


> wow people are seriously arguing for luthor in this matchup.
> 
> Insanity



He has the brains to come up with a plan to win, and Goku being a total idiot just makes it easier.


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## Gunners (Nov 29, 2006)

> By analyzing his biology and genetically engineering it....
> 
> Also it was stated that the virus was just a normal virus that was going around on earth, it wasn't supernatural or created artificially or anything.



But the virus was highly deadly, yeah it was passing through the world but they stated that it was strong enough to kill a super sajjin meaning it wasn't some crap ass virus.

Anyway I don't really care on the issue to be honest, Luthor could poison Goku and Goku would die, in which case Luthor would win the match up. If Goku doesn't die from the poison and he gets hits on Luthor Goku would win.


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## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

gunners said:


> But the virus was highly deadly, yeah it was passing through the world but they stated that it was strong enough to kill a super sajjin meaning it wasn't some crap ass virus.
> 
> Anyway I don't really care on the issue to be honest, Luthor could poison Goku and Goku would die, in which case Luthor would win the match up. If Goku doesn't die from the poison and he gets hits on Luthor Goku would win.



Any particular reason that he would be resistant to poison? He's never been poisoned before.... especially if it's a specially designed poison specifically tailored to his DNA.

Or Luthor could just trap him in the Phantom Zone, or trick him into flying into space where he would suffocate to death, or a billion other things....


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## Wesley (Nov 29, 2006)

Actually it was an alien virus he picked up on another planet.


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## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

Um, no it wasn't.

Trunks said that "in a few years there will be a new heart virus going around, and you'll catch it."


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## icnthearu715 (Nov 29, 2006)

*goku vs. lex luthor*

Goku would kick lex luthors ass!!


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## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

icnthearu715 said:


> Goku would kick lex luthors ass!!



Lex disagrees:


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## jplaya2023 (Nov 29, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> He has the brains to come up with a plan to win, and Goku being a total idiot just makes it easier.



plans or not goku sends a small blast that levels lex corp killing luthor.


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## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:


> plans or not goku sends a small blast that levels lex corp killing luthor.



Do you realize what prep means?

Goku won't even know who his enemy is, and he won't even know that Lex is trying to kill him, while Lex gets months to create a plan, and in the eyes of the public Luthor is a genius multibillionaire philanthropist, and even was the President once.... you can't just kill people like that for no apparent reason unless you're evil.

EDIT: Not to mention Luthor probably wouldn't even be there anyway and would just have a body double standing in for him, so even if Goku somehow knew that he was being targeted and he abandoned his morals and killed hundreds of innocent people, Luthor would still be hiding somewhere and then strike when he least expected it.


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## jplaya2023 (Nov 29, 2006)

Are people forgetting goku is a physic he can read the thoughts of luthor and know what his plans are and just kill him. Or he can sense his ki(life energy) and see if there is any animosity in it. I cant believe im arguing such a retarded topic. People hate goku this much they put mere mortals in front of him


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## konflikti (Nov 29, 2006)

Justice And Rule said:


> The letter in Mrs. Luthor's pocket should be enough proof to show you how wrong you are.



What I mean is that Braniac has his own agenda going on there. He doesn't want Luthor talking with Superman there, wether he can speak him to suicide or not. I don't believe he could talk him into suicide. Only thing that hurt Supes in that envelope was that Luthor was right.

Btw, Brainiac is lvl 12 intelligence, while Lex being level 9. Superman is accompanied by Brainiac. Why should he be afraid of Luthor?


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## Timur Lane (Nov 29, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:


> plans or not goku sends a small blast that levels lex corp killing luthor.



Do you really think Goku would just go bananas at Lex at once he sees him??

Dont you think Luthor will study Goku and find a way of beating him instead of rushing in and says he will kill him?
As stupid as Goku is he could easlily just trick Goku into some ploy and thats what,s kill him

Like this scenario:
Lex tells Goku that Frieza(or however you want) is going to blow up some distant planet.
Goku travels there in one of Lexcorp,s spaceship to take out this menace Luthor was speaking about.
The next thing that happen is that the spaceship explodes and Goku either dies of the explosion(unlikly) or suffocates in space.

Goku dies.


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## jplaya2023 (Nov 29, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> Do you realize what prep means?
> 
> Goku won't even know who his enemy is, and he won't even know that Lex is trying to kill him, while Lex gets months to create a plan, and in the eyes of the public Luthor is a genius multibillionaire philanthropist, and even was the President once.... you can't just kill people like that for no apparent reason unless you're evil.
> 
> EDIT: Not to mention Luthor probably wouldn't even be there anyway and would just have a body double standing in for him, so even if Goku somehow knew that he was being targeted and he abandoned his morals and killed hundreds of innocent people, Luthor would still be hiding somewhere and then strike when he least expected it.



and how is he going to kill goku??? poison?? lol, a laser?? lol goku would casually smack it away. How is he even going to get in contact with goku??? To many holes in your theory


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## jplaya2023 (Nov 29, 2006)

noxname said:


> Do you really think Goku would just go bananas at Lex at once he sees him??
> 
> Dont you think Luthor will study Goku and find a way of beating him instead of rushing in and says he will kill him?
> As stupid as Goku is he could easlily just trick Goku into some ploy and thats what,s kill him
> ...




goku uses IT he wouldnt take a space ship. He can read minds so he knows luthor is lying or he can just use ki sense and not even sense frieza's ki and kill luthor for lying to him. How does luthor even know about frieza? Not to menton frieza is dead

thread fails


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## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:


> Are people forgetting goku is a physic he can read the thoughts of luthor and know what his plans are and just kill him.



He would have to touch him to read his mind, and he doesn't even know who he is.... not to mention Luthor is used to telepaths and has defenses against them....

All of the telepathy he's done across distances has been with the consent of the other person, and in most cases (Kaios, kaioshins) the other person was a telepath themself.



> Or he can sense his ki(life energy) and see if there is any animosity in it.



Yes, he's going to go search out every person in the world and see if they're up to no good..... if he could do that there would be no evil or crime whatsoever on DBU earth.

Should I remind you that even when he was warned in advance about Dr. Gero he couldn't find him in 3 years?



> I cant believe im arguing such a retarded topic. People hate goku this much they put mere mortals in front of him



Since when was Goku immortal?


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## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:


> and how is he going to kill goku??? poison?? lol, a laser?? lol goku would casually smack it away. How is he even going to get in contact with goku??? To many holes in your theory



I already explained: Genetically engineered disease, poison, Phantom Zone projector, enlist the aid of a telekinetic or telepath like Manchester Black to give him a stroke or heart attack, etc.


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## jplaya2023 (Nov 29, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> He would have to touch him to read his mind, and he doesn't even know who he is.... not to mention Luthor is used to telepaths and has defenses against them....
> 
> 
> *goku can sense luthor's intentions like he did trunks knowing he wouldnt do anything to him*
> ...



when did i say he was? I said luthor is a mere mortal (human) goku is part of the greatest fighting race in fiction


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## jplaya2023 (Nov 29, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> I already explained: Genetically engineered disease, poison, Phantom Zone projector, enlist the aid of a telekinetic or telepath like Manchester Black to give him a stroke or heart attack, etc.



LMAO like goku wouldnt sense a plan and prepare for it. Or king kaiou wouldnt warn him or kami or dende depending on timeline. Goku would sense any type of attack on him and quickly stop it. 

Yall reaching longer than dhalsim's arms this thread fails hard


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## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:


> goku uses IT he wouldnt take a space ship.



Except he has.... multiple times.

He wouldn't even know where to go using IT since he can only find his destination by locking onto a familiar ki signal.... if it's a ki signal he's never encountered before he can't IT to that place....



> He can read minds so he knows luthor is lying



If he touches him, which he doesn't do to every random stranger who tells him something, and if Luthor is not wearing anti - telepathy equipment....



> or he can just use ki sense and not even sense frieza's ki and kill luthor for lying to him.



Or Luthor just says that Freiza or whoever is hiding their ki, or it's a threat to a planet that doesn't involve ki (like a meteor about to collide with the planet)....



> How does luthor even know about frieza?



Research. Duh.

It doesn't even have to be Freiza, it could be anyone or anything he makes up.



> Not to menton frieza is dead



They thought he was dead the first time too, guy has a habit of coming back.



> thread fails



No, you fail.


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## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

> goku can sense luthor's intentions like he did trunks knowing he wouldnt do anything to him



And he's going to seek out every person on the planet and do this?



> goku isnt a crime fighter great saiyan man is.



So in other words, Goku won't know what's up until Luthor strikes, since he can't read the thoughts of everyone on earth.



> No vegeta stated he would kill anyone who went to find gero and goku said gero didnt do anything wrong yet so he wouldnt pursue it.



And that same logic applies to Luthor....



> when did i say he was? I said luthor is a mere mortal (human) goku is part of the greatest fighting race in fiction



More of this bullshit?

Unless you personally know everything about all fiction ever written, a claim like that is just stupid.


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## jplaya2023 (Nov 29, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> Except he has.... multiple times.
> 
> He wouldn't even know where to go using IT since he can only find his destination by locking onto a familiar ki signal.... if it's a ki signal he's never encountered before he can't IT to that place....
> 
> ...




no you fail for talking out your ass and making up shit favorable to your bullshit argument


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## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:


> LMAO like goku wouldnt sense a plan and prepare for it.



Yep, just like he sensed Dr. Gero's plan and prepared for it in Trunks' timeline... 



> Or king kaiou wouldnt warn him



Just like he warned him about the androids in Trunks' timeline, or how he warned him about Cell.... 



> or kami or dende depending on timeline.



Just like Kami warned him about Raditz, or the androids, or Cell, or Buu.... 

Kami and Dende didn't even know about Cell, all they said was that they felt some bad mojo but couldn't pin it down, and Cell actually had abnormal ki compared to anything else on earth, as opposed to a human like Luthor....



> Goku would sense any type of attack on him and quickly stop it.



Like he sensed the heart virus?

How can he sense something like poison or a disease?



> Yall reaching longer than dhalsim's arms this thread fails hard



No, DBZ fanboys like you fail hard for refusing to understand that DBZ characters are not unbeatable, especially in a war of intelligence.


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## jplaya2023 (Nov 29, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> And he's going to seek out every person on the planet and do this?
> 
> *he's going to seek out luthor for even talking to him in the first place wondering who is this bald idiot and how the hell did he even contact him*
> 
> ...




nope i seen enough to make the claim and its valid. Either disprove it or leave it alone


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## Gunners (Nov 29, 2006)

I think people are speaking under the impression that Goku doesn't intend to hurt Luthor, usually in battledomes there is only the people metioned in the fight are around and the people involved in the fight know they must fight one another.


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## jplaya2023 (Nov 29, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> Yep, just like he sensed Dr. Gero's plan and prepared for it in Trunks' timeline...
> 
> *he was dead idiot*
> 
> ...



no idiots like you who hate a character so much result to this bullshit because you mad he owns your favorite superhero


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## jplaya2023 (Nov 29, 2006)

gunners said:


> I think people are speaking under the impression that Goku doesn't intend to hurt Luthor, usually in battledomes there is only the people metioned in the fight are around and the people involved in the fight know they must fight one another.



if luthor could do all this bullshit endless mike claims then he could of easily killed of superman.


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## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

> name these multiple times???



How do you think he got to Namek and back?



> When he went to namek he didnt know IT dummy so therefore he had to take a spaceship. Thread starter never mentions a particular goku so we go for the best goku.



And he used IT to get back to earth, right?

WRONG!



> Yeah and goku would just go in a randoms stranger space ship to face a foe that the stranger has no idea about



Considering he naively trusts everyone, yes, he would.

Or Luthor could just send someone who works for him to contact him and show him the ship, and lie to that person, so for all that person knew there was a threat in space that Goku needed to go to.



> lol what does luthor know about ki dummy



Everything, considering it's a common phenomenon in the DBU, and unlike 99.99999% of DB earth's population Luthor isn't an idiot and could easily find out all he needed to know via research.



> and frieza cant hide his ki anyway idiot.



Is that why he specifically said that his power level was higher in his other forms? 

Vegeta couldn't hide his ki either at first, if he could learn how, why couldn't Frieza?

Besides it doesn't have to be Frieza.



> You stay losin. Lol @ a planet with no ki, that means no life force is on the planet moron more holes in your theory



Are you even paying attention? I said a planet with unfamiliar ki, not a planet with no ki. As in a planet he had never been to before or encountered anyone from before.



> LMAOOOOOOOOOOO yeah like there's a library that has the great battles of the Z warriors, again your full of shit. The only people who know about frieza are either dead or know goku in some sort of way and wouldnt tell luthor shit.



Gero studied him, Luthor could to. He has access to a wide variety of resources that could compile all the data he would need.



> im responding to the dude that explicitely mentioned frieza



And I'm proposing a modified plan where it doesn't have to be Frieza.



> well he hasnt came back since trunks got him so the consensus is he dead.



Yet it's not unheard of for people to come back from the dead in the DBU. In fact it's quite common.



> no you fail for talking out your ass and making up shit favorable to your bullshit argument



Considering you have not refuted any of my arguments at all, you're just whining.


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## Jackal Iscariot (Nov 29, 2006)

Lex L. wins.


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## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

> he's going to seek out luthor for even talking to him in the first place wondering who is this bald idiot and how the hell did he even contact him



That's assuming that Luthor introduces himself under his true identity and doesn't just use some other guy working for him.

Also it's not exactly part of Goku's personality to hear that there's a threat somewhere where people are going to die, and instead of helping going on a wild goose chase across the earth to try to find the guy who told him about it.



> he can sense the user's intentions again luthor has no way of tracing ki and even finding goku to begin with. Thread fails



I would think people would keep records of a guy who won the world martial arts tournament....

Even Videl was able to find out about him with a tiny bit of research.



> correct



So Luthor wouldn't have actually done anything wrong and therefore Goku would not attempt to kill him or even know anything until Luthor actually tried something.



> nope i seen enough to make the claim and its valid. Either disprove it or leave it alone



Burden of proof, fucktard. I can't prove a negative.


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## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

gunners said:


> I think people are speaking under the impression that Goku doesn't intend to hurt Luthor, usually in battledomes there is only the people metioned in the fight are around and the people involved in the fight know they must fight one another.



Not in a prep war....


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## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

> he was dead idiot



And he didn't see that coming either.



> he was already warned of the androids and kami knew all about cell when he merged with piccolo he knew as well



Yes, he was warned about the androids by Trunks, who actually had seen them in his timeline. King Kai didn't know about them at all and if Trunks hadn't shown up, no one would have warned him.

And Kami didn't know anything about Cell, like I said all he knew was that for the past four years he had felt some bad mojo but didn't know what it was or its source.

Picollo only found out about Cell when he fought him and Cell explained his origin to him.



> Kami doesnt intervene like that and for story purposes AT didnt want him to know about radits



Wrong. He didn't warn him about Raditz because he didn't know about Raditz, unless you can show evidence that he did.



> what are u talking about before kami fused with piccolo he told him he sensed something much stronger than the androids and he would know when they fused



He said that he sensed some undefined evil growing on earth for the past four years, yet he didn't know about Cell until the merged Kami/Picollo fought Cell and Cell told him about himself.



> how was he gonna sense something 3 years away moron.



I don't know.... maybe by sensing it soon before it happened?

Unless he simply can't sense something that subtle.



> see above



So, in other words, he can't. Concession Accepted.



> no idiots like you who hate a character so much result to this bullshit because you mad he owns your favorite superhero



Last time I checked, Lex Luthor was not a superhero....


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## jplaya2023 (Nov 29, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> That's assuming that Luthor introduces himself under his true identity and doesn't just use some other guy working for him.
> 
> Also it's not exactly part of Goku's personality to hear that there's a threat somewhere where people are going to die, and instead of helping going on a wild goose chase across the earth to try to find the guy who told him about it.
> 
> ...



concession accepted


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## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:


> if luthor could do all this bullshit endless mike claims then he could of easily killed of superman.



Except that Superman's physiology renders him immune to most poisons and diseases, unlike Goku.... also he can survive in space.


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## jplaya2023 (Nov 29, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> And he didn't see that coming either.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




niether is goku. Superman is a superhero batman spiderman goku is not


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## jplaya2023 (Nov 29, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> Except that Superman's physiology renders him immune to most poisons and diseases, unlike Goku.... also he can survive in space.



luthor has a shyt load of the green rock he could easily use against superman with all that help you hired for him


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## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

> he wouldnt idiotically go into deep space on some whim of a stranger without checking it out first and consenting with king kaiou before hand



And why would King Kai forbid it? If Luthor claims it's some kind of threat like a villain who doesn't use ki or a bomb or something, King Kai would have no idea if that was true or not....



> So this means goku can do "research" or talk to superman and find out everything about luthor since he has access to Marvel records then



Ignoring for the moment that Luthor and Superman are from DC, not Marvel (LOL), the OP stated that only Luthor got prep.



> he'll try and fail



Except he won't, if he uses a plan like an invisible, undetectable viral or bacterial agent then Goku will die before he even realizes what's going on.... All he'll know is that he's sick and dying but not that it was Luthor's fault.



> concession accepted



Are you an idiot or something? Wait, stupid question.

It's impossible to prove a negative, the burden of proof is on the positive claim. You can't ask me to prove a negative, any more than I can ask you to prove that Luthor has a secret unknown power that will kill Goku simply by being in the same universe as him.


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## jplaya2023 (Nov 29, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> And why would King Kai forbid it? If Luthor claims it's some kind of threat like a villain who doesn't use ki or a bomb or something, King Kai would have no idea if that was true or not....
> 
> 
> *what villian doenst use ki???? The only thing would be an android so now you have luthor building an android lol. King kaiou can easily see and detect anything on a planet so when he doesnt see anything he'll tell goku he's full of shit*
> ...





Concession Accepted moron onto something else


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## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

> You cant say that for sure AT set the storyline up for it to play out that way. Kami sensed cell when he first landed but never said anything until he knew more about it



That's because he knew practically nothing.

He didn't know what Cell was, where he came from, where he was, what his intentions were, how powerful he would become, etc. All he knew was that there was something evil on earth. And as I already pointed out, Cell had abnormal ki, unlike Luthor.



> But he still sensed a danger greater than the androids did he not



Pretty useless if he can't pinpoint it or know its nature. And, as I mentioned, he only sensed him because Cell was a strange creature with strange ki.



> Piccolo had the information from kami about a danger but didnt know what it was



Which is contrary to what you said before, that Picollo found out about Cell from merging with Kami. He didn't know who or what Cell was until he met him.



> AT made the storyline like that.



Which means that Kami didn't know about him, and if you claim that he did then you're trying to change the storyline from the way it was written.



> but he still sensed it. Thats my point



But he didn't know what it was, where it was, what form it would take, etc. That's my point.



> Goku would have to show symptons according to the timeline it hits he's in bed there is no cure and he died



Just like what could easily happen if Luthor poisoned him.



> niether is goku. Superman is a superhero batman spiderman goku is not



Then your statement was just a total non - sequiter.


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:


> luthor has a shyt load of the green rock he could easily use against superman with all that help you hired for him



Except Superman has been building up an immunity to it and now it takes prolonged exposure to a large quantity to kill him, he even survived a nuke while sitting in sand full of Kryptonite, and then deflected the explosion into space, and survived with liquied Kryptonite injected into his veins.


----------



## jplaya2023 (Nov 29, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> Except Superman has been building up an immunity to it and now it takes prolonged exposure to a large quantity to kill him, he even survived a nuke while sitting in sand full of Kryptonite, and then deflected the explosion into space, and survived with liquied Kryptonite injected into his veins.



he still is hurt by it. If luthor shot the green rock into superman's chest by his heart it would kill him.


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

> what villian doenst use ki????



In the DBU, Dr. Gero and the androids.

In other universes, tons of them.



> The only thing would be an android so now you have luthor building an android lol.



He could if he wanted to, however he wouldn't need to, he could just say that there was one. Or he could say that there was someone else, like a type of villain from his universe that uses a different power from ki....



> King kaiou can easily see and detect anything on a planet so when he doesnt see anything he'll tell goku he's full of shit



Just like he sensed the androids, or Cell, etc.?

King Kai can sense ki signatures. If the enemy is hiding their ki, or if they don't use ki, then he won't know a thing.



> Marvel and DC = Interchangeable terms no biggie



 

WTF?

Marvel and DC are completely different multiverses. They're two completely different companies with completely different characters.

In a way you can remember:

DC = Batman's home

Marvel = Spider-man's home



> So this viral only hits goku and no one else huh? Lol Hillarious



Yes, it if is genetically engineered to specifically affect Saiya-jin DNA....



> Concession Accepted moron onto something else



Do you know what the burden of proof is? You can't ask me to prove a negative, you have to prove the positive.


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:


> he still is hurt by it. If luthor shot the green rock into superman's chest by his heart it would kill him.



No it wouldn't, it would stun him, but he could easily recover. He would need a large amount of it right next to him for a significant period of time to kill him.

And this is assuming he just lets it hit him instead of just moving out of the way or zapping it with heat vision or ice breath or something.


----------



## Birkin (Nov 29, 2006)

> Yes, it if is genetically engineered to specifically affect Saiya-jin DNA....


Just tell me how he can get the DNA build of a Saiya-jin.


----------



## jplaya2023 (Nov 29, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> And this is assuming he just lets it hit him instead of just moving out of the way or zapping it with heat vision or ice breath or something.



just like goku couldnt move and fry him with kamehameha


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

Infinite_Justice said:


> Just tell me how he can get the DNA build of a Saiya-jin.



Get someone to scrape skin cells off of something Goku recently touched, get one of his hairs, exhalation from his breath, a bowl or cup he ate or drank from, etc.


----------



## jplaya2023 (Nov 29, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> Get someone to scrape skin cells off of something Goku recently touched, get one of his hairs, exhalation from his breath, a bowl or cup he ate or drank from, etc.



goku lives in the middle of a forest he would know if someone came out there and would wonder what the hell they're doing out here.


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:


> just like goku couldnt move and fry him with kamehameha



Yes, because I said that Luthor would throw a hunk of Kryptonite at Goku.... 

(In case you can't tell, that was sarcasm).


----------



## Birkin (Nov 29, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> Get someone to scrape skin cells off of something Goku recently touched, get one of his hairs, exhalation from his breath, a bowl or cup he ate or drank from, etc.



I need this specified by the OP; what realm are we living in? Are there other people around? Has Goku beaten anyone from this realm? And as for his hair, if I recall, correct me if I'm wrong, but his hair stays on his entire life.


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:


> goku lives in the middle of a forest he would know if someone came out there and would wonder what the hell they're doing out here.



He gets mail, doesn't he? Luthor hires a package guy to deliver a package to him, has him use a pen to sign for it, then he takes the dead skin cells from the pen.

Not to mention he doesn't stay there all the time, he goes into the city and visits Bulma and such.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Nov 29, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> Get someone to scrape skin cells off of something Goku recently touched, get one of his hairs, exhalation from his breath, a bowl or cup he ate or drank from, etc.



We know how skilled Lex is with cloning. Bizarro Goko FTL


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

Infinite_Justice said:


> I need this specified by the OP; what realm are we living in? Are there other people around? Has Goku beaten anyone from this realm? And as for his hair, if I recall, correct me if I'm wrong, but his hair stays on his entire life.



No, his hair stays the same shape his entire life unless it's cut.

And the OP never specified, I assumed it was Luthor with all his resources, ties, and political and economical clout dropped into the DBU.


----------



## Final Ultima (Nov 29, 2006)

If Dr. Gero can get a hold of the required cells, then Lex Luthor surely can.


----------



## Birkin (Nov 29, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> No, his hair stays the same shape his entire life unless it's cut.
> 
> And the OP never specified, I assumed it was Luthor with all his resources, ties, and political and economical clout dropped into the DBU.



Unless it's cut you say, which means it doesn't grow. So how would he be able to get a hair sample? As for what realm this is, it would be better if we actually got a concrete realm to base facts upon.


----------



## EXhack (Nov 29, 2006)

Goku is the equivalent to a mid-level cosmic on steroids... Luthor loses. Goku also has massive fan support. I'm not a DBZtard myself, but I can see when a character is outclassed. I mean... the only way Luthor wins is if it's a battle of the wits, like chess, Guild Wars or Risk.


----------



## Birkin (Nov 29, 2006)

Let me rephrase the above:

Unless it's cut you say, but then it has to grow first, and like you said; his hair has the same shape hiw whole life.


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

Infinite_Justice said:


> Unless it's cut you say, which means it doesn't grow. So how would he be able to get a hair sample? As for what realm this is, it would be better if we actually got a concrete realm to base facts upon.



Yes it would be. However the OP would need to state that.


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

Grb2HAck said:


> Goku is the equivalent to a mid-level cosmic on steroids... Luthor loses.



Goku is nowhere near cosmic. He has no reality - warping abilities, no matter transmutation, none of that stuff.



> Goku also has massive fan support.



Obviously.



> I'm not a DBZtard myself, but I can see when a character is outclassed. I mean... the only way Luthor wins is if it's a battle of the wits, like chess, Guild Wars or Risk.



Which it is. It's a prep fight, as in Luthor uses his intelligence to make a plan to win.

He's not going to be dropped into a boxing ring suddenly and told to go beat him up with his fists.


----------



## Birkin (Nov 29, 2006)

I'm resting my case until Suzu points out some more facts about.... everything.


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

Infinite_Justice said:


> Let me rephrase the above:
> 
> Unless it's cut you say, but then it has to grow first, and like you said; his hair has the same shape hiw whole life.



Doesn't mean that a hair or two can't come out when he's washing his hair or brushing it or something.


----------



## Birkin (Nov 29, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> Doesn't mean that a hair or two can't come out when he's washing his hair or brushing it or something.


If it does, then it will happen several times, rendering him bald, which I have yet to see.


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

Not really, since it can grow back, as long as it maintains the same shape.


----------



## Birkin (Nov 29, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> Not really, since it can grow back, as long as it maintains the same shape.


But then remember, he was born with his spikey, black hair. Unless you find evidence of a Saiya-jins hair grow, I stand by my facts.


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

From how I heard it I thought it meant he could lose his hair but it would grow back to that original shape.


----------



## Birkin (Nov 29, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> From how I heard it I thought it meant he could lose his hair but it would grow back to that original shape.



This may be, but I'd still like to see some facts; maybe a youtube? or a number of an episode or something similar?


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

I'm pretty sure it was stated after Trunks and Vegeta exited the ROSAT.

It's not important anyway, since there are plenty of other ways to get his DNA.


----------



## Birkin (Nov 29, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> I'm pretty sure it was stated after Trunks and Vegeta exited the ROSAT.
> 
> It's not important anyway, since there are plenty of other ways to get his DNA.



You're right about other ways, like spit for example. But then we have to face the fact that we need more essential information on WHAT other people is around. How can Lex find out where Goku lives, THEN get some spit of a cup or something without him noticing and this may be a false claim, but doesn't Goku have improved hearing as well? Long time since I last saw DBZ so frankly I can't remember everything.


----------



## EXhack (Nov 29, 2006)

Perchance a retrovirus created using DNA obtained from one of his descendants? (even Pan) It would leave Goku a hapless human with no memories...

EDIT: Endless Mike you were right to correct me. Goku is just impossibly superhuman.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Nov 29, 2006)

konflikti said:


> What I mean is that Braniac has his own agenda going on there. He doesn't want Luthor talking with Superman there, wether he can speak him to suicide or not. I don't believe he could talk him into suicide. Only thing that hurt Supes in that envelope was that Luthor was right.



Right or wrong, Superman was on his knees crying. He definitely could have been moved into suicide. While Brainiac obviously had his own agenda (I agree with you), Luthor definitely showed the capacity to talk Superman into suicide with that single sentence.

That was also the best sentence of the entire book, in my opinion. Simply _genius_.



> Btw, Brainiac is lvl 12 intelligence, while Lex being level 9. Superman is accompanied by Brainiac. Why should he be afraid of Luthor?



Ha! That's the irony that Millar wrote in. Luthor _is_ a 12th level intellect, which is why he's able to escape Brainiac. That's just Brainiac being overconfident, underplaying Luthor's obvious mental talents, and foreshadowing Luthor's eventual escape (We all know he's a 12th level intellect due to other continuities, so we know that Brainiac is going to lose to him by underestimating him).


----------



## jplaya2023 (Nov 29, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> He gets mail, doesn't he? Luthor hires a package guy to deliver a package to him, has him use a pen to sign for it, then he takes the dead skin cells from the pen.
> 
> Not to mention he doesn't stay there all the time, he goes into the city and visits Bulma and such.



when has goku ever got mail, and if they did it would be chi chi the one who signs for it since goku wouldnt even be home. 

*insert 25cent and try again*


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:


> when has goku ever got mail, and if they did it would be chi chi the one who signs for it since goku wouldnt even be home.
> 
> *insert 25cent and try again*



Everyone gets mail, things like electric bills, etc.

And chichi wouldn't necessarily be home, they just have to time it when she is not.

It's not like Goku spends all of his time in his house 24/7 when he's not fighting some villain.

He goes off to visit his friends and stuff all the time.


----------



## Khan (Nov 29, 2006)

Within an hour.  If you remember the short period before the Cell tournament, Krillin was able to injure Goku with a little rock.  So, since he's vulnerable when he's sleeping, Luthor would do many things to kill him...


----------



## jplaya2023 (Nov 29, 2006)

Khan said:


> Within an hour.  If you remember the short period before the Cell tournament, Krillin was able to injure Goku with a little rock.  So, since he's vulnerable when he's sleeping, Luthor would do many things to kill him...



dawg that shyt is a plothole


----------



## jplaya2023 (Nov 29, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> Everyone gets mail, things like electric bills, etc.
> 
> And chichi wouldn't necessarily be home, they just have to time it when she is not.
> 
> ...



bills? what bills do they pay??? and we never seen them get mail so stop specuating

even if chi chi isnt home you have no proof to say goku would get the mail


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:


> dawg that shyt is a plothole



No it's not. It is, however, filler.



> bills? what bills do they pay???



Electricity. Water. TV. Heating. etc.



> and we never seen them get mail so stop specuating



We've never seen them use the toilet either, does that mean they don't? 



> even if chi chi isnt home you have no proof to say goku would get the mail



So what's he going to do, just sit there and ignore the doorbell?


----------



## jplaya2023 (Nov 29, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> Electricity. Water. TV. Heating. etc.
> 
> *lol wtf with what money no one in the house work so they dont "pay" bills*
> 
> ...



obviously or wonder whose this person outside his home and how'd he find him considering it would take 5 hours on a jet to get from satan city out to mt pazou


----------



## Suzumebachi (Nov 29, 2006)

Mike...you're letting him get to you again...


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

He's good as a punching bag, and also to pad my post count.


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

> lol wtf with what money no one in the house work so they dont "pay" bills



Then how do they get electricity, heat, running water, etc.?



> irrelevent there is no specific evidence that suggest they do as you say. We seen others chars on the toilet so your opinion is flawed



We've seen other people get mail, so therefore they get mail. (using your own logic).



> obviously or wonder whose this person outside his home and how'd he find him considering it would take 5 hours on a jet to get from satan city out to mt pazou



Yes, and the city where Gohan's school is is obviously the only place on the entire planet that is populated....


----------



## jplaya2023 (Nov 29, 2006)

Suzumebachi said:


> Mike...you're letting him get to you again...



calm your beard and log into one of your aliases 

mike show me a scan of them using electricity, having a job and paying bills


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

You think they have no electricity?


----------



## Suzumebachi (Nov 29, 2006)

> calm your beard



The line is: Comb your beard.

Fool.


----------



## jplaya2023 (Nov 29, 2006)

Suzumebachi said:


> The line is: Comb your beard.
> 
> Fool.



I KNOW THAT. I'm doing the jplaya version, trollup


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

Oh, BTW, you wanted a scan of electricity in Goku's house?

live

Note the TV, that implies electricity and TV bills.


----------



## TheGreenSamurai78 (Nov 29, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:


> I KNOW THAT. I'm doing the jplaya version, trollup



*I'm still waiting for you to post back to my post Jplaya.*  


live


----------



## jplaya2023 (Nov 29, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> Oh, BTW, you wanted a scan of electricity in Goku's house?
> 
> live
> 
> Note the TV, that implies electricity and TV bills.




now show me a scan of chi chi and goku "working" to pay these "bills"

@ green samuri my bad i'll look at it now. I'm needed everywhere on the site so my response time is a lil slower


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:


> now show me a scan of chi chi and goku "working" to pay these "bills"



Why? They get electricity, it's obvious they have to pay for it.


----------



## jplaya2023 (Nov 29, 2006)

green samuri that thread appears to be locked its not letting me reply so we'll cross that bridge another time


----------



## jplaya2023 (Nov 29, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> Why? They get electricity, it's obvious they have to pay for it.



how do they pay for it when they dont work???????


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

The thread isn't locked....


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:


> how do they pay for it when they dont work???????



How do you know they don't work?

The manga doesn't exactly focus on Chichi and Ox King's day - to - day life.

Not to mention I'm sure Goku made a lot of money from the tournament he won back in the day....


----------



## jplaya2023 (Nov 29, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> How do you know they don't work?
> 
> The manga doesn't exactly focus on Chichi and Ox King's day - to - day life.
> 
> Not to mention I'm sure Goku made a lot of money from the tournament he won back in the day....



they dont live with Ox king

Chi chi is a housewife/home maker

Goku is either training or saving the world

they dont work 

goku spent up all of roshi's money from the world tournament at the resturaunt, tien came in first in 1 and goku won 1. I doubt that money would last forever. You ever consider AT just gave them electricity since DBZ doesnt represent the real world


----------



## Bullet (Nov 29, 2006)

Sesshoumaru said:


> Lex Luthor cannot defeat Goku, even with prep.
> 
> He CAN defeat Gohan with prep.  Goku is not a superhero like his son.



Why wouldn't he be able to beat Goku but Gohan? Gohan is much smarter than Goku, so I see it as the other way around.

Anyways, I say Lex wins this since he has prep. He'll probaly create a suit made out of radiation to battle Goku. Since Goku isn't immune to any diseases, it'll work.


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 29, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:


> they dont live with Ox king



Yeah they do, IIRC.



> Chi chi is a housewife/home maker



She's got to make a living somehow.



> Goku is either training or saving the world



Yes, he's a deadbeat.



> they dont work



Then how do they get food, power, clothing, etc.?



> goku spent up all of roshi's money from the world tournament at the resturaunt, tien came in first in 1 and goku won 1. I doubt that money would last forever. You ever consider AT just gave them electricity since DBZ doesnt represent the real world



We know money exists in the DBU. We know things cost money in the DBU. There's no reason why they would get everything for free.


----------



## Vynjira (Nov 29, 2006)

Seriously if this is a battle to death and both are set to the intent to kill than much like Superman VS Luthor he'd be dead before he knew what happened. Luthor survives soley because Superman is bound by a legal system and his morals and by the fact he cares for Lex. Take that away Luthor dies. End of story. If you wanna argue that Lex could Survive Goku with an intent to kill I beg you to remember what Buu casually did as he walked around the edge of Kami's Palace.


----------



## jplaya2023 (Nov 29, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> Yeah they do, IIRC.
> 
> *IIRC????*
> 
> ...



wow just because money exist doesnt mean it follows the same logic as it does in the real world


----------



## Gooba (Nov 29, 2006)

Ok, this thread got stupid.  Jplaya, stop being so off topic and ridiculous.  EM, stop feeding him.

With prep Luthor is constantly causing Superman serious problems, so I bet he could come up with something to beat Goku.

No, I don't need to think of what.  I am only a normal person, with normal intelligence.  If I could plot and plan as well as him I would have taken over the world right now, or at least helped my GPA out some.


----------



## Guy Gardner (Nov 29, 2006)

Can't we just ban him for his outrageous trolling already? I mean, at least from the Battledome.


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Nov 29, 2006)

Batman prime with preptime owns Dbz and Dc verse.

as for the fight... the conditions are silly. Luthor has several hundred if not thousands of comic appreances of reference of things he can do. In addition, those feats do not impose any limit on him, because the notion of preptime can basically include anything. Therefore 
Preptime of Lex Luthor level who is somewhat near Mr. Fantastic> anything not completly superior to Sliver Sliver


----------



## Vynjira (Nov 29, 2006)

Batman Prime with 80 years Prep couldn't take on the Whole DCU by himself. Lex is very unsuccesful considering Superman is limited by laws, morals and compasion.


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 30, 2006)

Vynjira said:


> Seriously if this is a battle to death and both are set to the intent to kill than much like Superman VS Luthor he'd be dead before he knew what happened. Luthor survives soley because Superman is bound by a legal system and his morals and by the fact he cares for Lex. Take that away Luthor dies. End of story. If you wanna argue that Lex could Survive Goku with an intent to kill I beg you to remember what Buu casually did as he walked around the edge of Kami's Palace.



Well duh. That's why this is a prepped fight.


----------



## mystictrunks (Nov 30, 2006)

I can see Luthor winning this if he messes with Goku's emotions. Lex couild hire some random super villian to attack Goku's home and kill Chi-Chi,and also attack Goten. Now asuming Goku doesn't kill the guy who did it in one blow, Goku would probably ask "Why did you do this" villian replies "Superman sent me" After that Goku either kills the guy or beats him down some more. Goku searches the world for superman eventually finding him. They slug it out for awhile,but a blpoodlusted Goku is nothing to mess with. After an epic battle Goku kills Supes,but in the aftermath of the battle Luthor sends in like the Parasite or someone like that and they start draining Goku.

 Even though he's weeked Goku manages to knock him out. Now during this whole series of events Lex has spread an airborne virus through the battlefield.  Now Goku is infected with some deadly virus,and will die in X amount of time.


----------



## jplaya2023 (Nov 30, 2006)

mystictrunks said:


> I can see Luthor winning this if he messes with Goku's emotions. Lex couild hire some random super villian to attack Goku's home and kill Chi-Chi,and also attack Goten. Now asuming Goku doesn't kill the guy who did it in one blow, Goku would probably ask "Why did you do this" villian replies "Superman sent me" After that Goku either kills the guy or beats him down some more. Goku searches the world for superman eventually finding him. They slug it out for awhile,but a blpoodlusted Goku is nothing to mess with. After an epic battle Goku kills Supes,but in the aftermath of the battle Luthor sends in like the Parasite or someone like that and they start draining Goku.
> 
> Even though he's weeked Goku manages to knock him out. Now during this whole series of events Lex has spread an airborne virus through the battlefield.  Now Goku is infected with some deadly virus,and will die in X amount of time.




no goku could tell by superman's ki that he wouldnt do anything like that, and what super villian could kill ssj goten?????? That luthor could hire


----------



## mystictrunks (Nov 30, 2006)

Doctor Light,Mr.Freeze or Killerfrost, and more.


----------



## Dr.Douchebag (Nov 30, 2006)

lex could also talk other saiyans into doing his dirty work for him.


----------



## Killer Goats (Nov 30, 2006)

There isn't many saiyans left.


----------



## Birkin (Nov 30, 2006)

What the above said. And if EM says Luthor got dropped in the DBU, how can Superman and similar even exist?


----------



## mystictrunks (Nov 30, 2006)

I assumed it was taking place on a merged Dc and DBZ earth.


----------



## Birkin (Nov 30, 2006)

Will need the OP to state these facts, we need them.


----------



## Hagen (Nov 30, 2006)

I can see Luthor tricking the DB warriors into killing each other

He could send some fake pictures to Vegeta, containing images of Goku banging Bulma or something.
He could create another Cell, spread a lethal anti-saiyan virus, travel through time and kill chibi Goku. With unlimited prep there's a million things he can do. And the fact that Goku isn't preciselly a rocket scientist when it comes to intelligence makes it easier.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Nov 30, 2006)

Or he could give Yamcha a fail-safe way to beat Vegeta. That bitch took Yamcha's woman.


----------



## Thanatos (Nov 30, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:


> *Goku isnt an idiot like superman *and doesnt have any glaring weaknesses.



I think that will have to go in my Sig. The statement that Goku is not an idiot holds as much truth as "Lex Luthor is a 6 year old girl in a bear suit".

While GT isn't canon, the best example of his idiocy I can think of (right now) comes from there. Who else would try to swallow a Dragonball?

Also, I believe I remember it being mentioned in "the-thread-that-must-not-be-named", that Superman was as intelligent as "10 Einstein units", and could process "Billions of calculations" simultaneously.



Endless Mike said:


> Should I remind you that even when he was warned in advance about Dr. Gero he couldn't find him in 3 years?



In the manga, Goku states 2 reasons for not looking for Gero:
a - "Killing him now when he hasn't done anything wrong would be kind of mean" Direct Quote
b - Like Vegeta, he also wanted to fight the androids just to see how powerful they would be.


----------



## Hagen (Nov 30, 2006)

Illuminati Rild said:


> Or he could give Yamcha a fail-safe way to beat Vegeta. That bitch took Yamcha's woman.


If someone like Vegeta tries to steal your woman... just hand her to him. 


Trunks said to Goku that Bulma dropped Yamcha due to some infidelity problems though.


----------



## Chatulio (Nov 30, 2006)

Suzumebachi said:


> How much prep, with all his resources does it take for Lex Luthor to be able to defeat Goku?



Goku: Im going to stop you Luthor *powers up*
Luthor:  Yes, but before that let me buy you dinner
Goku: Dinner 
*switch to all you can eat buffey*
Luthor: All for you 
Goku: Awesome *digs in*
*three hours later*
Goku: uhh i am so full but why do i feel so wierd
Luthor:  because i poisoned it with Kryptonite  *walks away laughing*
Goku: Kryptonite?


----------



## Gunners (Nov 30, 2006)

> Electricity. Water. TV. Heating. etc.


Which they wouldn't pay, they live up in the mountains where it is deemed unsafe to live down to the wild beast, anyway if you live in certain areas and set up your house a certain way you can rely on the natural resources for energy.

Like since he lives in the mountain he can use the water flow for electricity etc.



> So what's he going to do, just sit there and ignore the doorbell?



Where Goku lives, dinosaurs and dangerous beast roam, normal people can not get to their location. I doubt he would get mail.



> Note the TV, that implies electricity and TV bills.


But if they use the resources they have they don't have to pay bills. Look at it this way, they are the only people who live up in the mountains, no power company would provide them with power run wires all the way up there just for them.



> Why? They get electricity, it's obvious they have to pay for it.


No, it isn't.

With Prep time I don't think Lex luthor would win this match up. It is lex vs Goku, not lex and an army of choice vs Goku.

All of the people saying he would do something with DNA and create a virus that kills Goku is stretching it in my opinion. It might work but I doubt it, also since it is lex vs Goku, Goku in this fight would have to kill lex I don't see why he why he is not allowed to actually try and kill lex in most of the scenarios people are giving.


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## Endless Mike (Nov 30, 2006)

gunners said:


> Which they wouldn't pay, they live up in the mountains where it is deemed unsafe to live down to the wild beast, anyway if you live in certain areas and set up your house a certain way you can rely on the natural resources for energy.
> 
> Like since he lives in the mountain he can use the water flow for electricity etc.



And you have evidence for this, of course.... 



> Where Goku lives, dinosaurs and dangerous beast roam, normal people can not get to their location. I doubt he would get mail.



There are dinosaurs and monsters all over the DB earth. They're a common thing there, what makes Goku's backyard so special?



> But if they use the resources they have they don't have to pay bills. Look at it this way, they are the only people who live up in the mountains



You really think they are the only people on the entire planet that live in the mountains? 



> no power company would provide them with power run wires all the way up there just for them.



They would if they pay for it. They have to get electricity somehow, as well as running water, heat, TV signals, etc.



> No, it isn't.



Yes it is. People don't get free electricity.



> With Prep time I don't think Lex luthor would win this match up. It is lex vs Goku, not lex and an army of choice vs Goku.



Lex is allowed to use all of his resources. That includes people who work for him, people he can pay to work for him, and people he can manipulate to work for him.



> All of the people saying he would do something with DNA and create a virus that kills Goku is stretching it in my opinion. It might work but I doubt it



Sorry, but "I doubt it" isn't a good argument.

Since he already proved susceptible to disease, then I doubt it wouldn't work.



> also since it is lex vs Goku, Goku in this fight would have to kill lex I don't see why he why he is not allowed to actually try and kill lex in most of the scenarios people are giving.



Because he doesn't know who Luthor is, doesn't know what he looks like, doesn't know where he is, and doesn't even know that he is targeting him.


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## Sieg (Nov 30, 2006)

Interesting read.

Remember, Gyumao is rich, and like someone said, Gero had been collecting dna samples for years. Lex can do the same, so its kind of silly to say its impossible.


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## Gunners (Nov 30, 2006)

> And you have evidence for this, of course....



If you live in the mountains away from civilisations you are likely to use your own power than have a company send wires all the way up to your location where only you live and they would be making a minimal profit and going completly out of the way.

Also when you live up in the mountains, or country areas it makes more sense to use natural resources as it costs less money, up in the mountains there would be a strong flow of water and since it is only one person who needs energy you could get enough power. It would be more efficient.



> There are dinosaurs and monsters all over the DB earth. They're a common thing there, what makes Goku's backyard so special?


It was explained in the first few chapters, to be honest I am tied down so I can't really search for it, if you have time to burn look for the image.



> You really think they are the only people on the entire planet that live in the mountains?



No, but that paticular area yes they are. Obviously the world has more mountains but where Goku lives it is pretty much isolated. 



> They would if they pay for it. They have to get electricity somehow, as well as running water, heat, TV signals, etc.



Like I said, if they live near spings they get warm water, they live in the mountains it is no really problem, do you think they are going wire water all the way from the bottom and drag it to the top when there is water supply near them?

Heat they can get it from the ground, and they use things like trees and fires comming to think of it. With the TV it could be basic channels and the signals, bulma is their best freind who has a dragon radar which can track little balls all over the world.



> Yes it is. People don't get free electricity.


Um yes some people do, people who set up solar pannels outside of there house, people who set up windmills, people who use the earths natural resources get free electricity. And some people actually take these options.



> Lex is allowed to use all of his resources. That includes people who work for him, people he can pay to work for him, and people he can manipulate to work for him.


So goku is able to IT and pick up other people to fight for him then? Like I said, Lex Vs Goku, if he brings in other people it becomes Lex and Y an Z vs Goku.



> Sorry, but "I doubt it" isn't a good argument.
> 
> Since he already proved susceptible to disease, then I doubt it wouldn't work.


I don't really care too be honest. When I said I doubt it, it meant I doubt lex can create and ilness for Goku as I see no reason why how he would find weaknesses in Goku body and create a virus from that. 

Maybe he could like I said ''I doubt it''. If you think it is incorrect for me to doubt this show me something that rids this doubt rather than say '''isn't a good arguement''.



> Because he doesn't know who Luthor is, doesn't know what he looks like, doesn't know where he is, and doesn't even know that he is targeting him.



Huh in battledome threads don't they usually know they have to fight one another, or was something stated in the first post which I missed out?


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## Thanatos (Nov 30, 2006)

I think that too many people didn't notice what the question is. It's not a fight between Lex and Goku, but just a question asking how much prep time Lex would need to beat Goku.

It's quite possible that it would take only 30 mins or so. Lex hires out a smorgasboard for a night, poisons all the food, and lets Goku eat everything. There is nothing to say that Goku is resistant to any specific poisons, and Goku is hardly one to say no to such a Huge feast (he's also too naive to think that a random person who he's never met would try to kill him).

Vegeta on the other hand I believe would need considerably more prep time (weeks at the least). Why? Because Vegeta isn't as thick as a doorknob (unlike his counterpart).


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## Endless Mike (Nov 30, 2006)

gunners said:


> If you live in the mountains away from civilisations you are likely to use your own power than have a company send wires all the way up to your location where only you live and they would be making a minimal profit and going completly out of the way.
> 
> Also when you live up in the mountains, or country areas it makes more sense to use natural resources as it costs less money, up in the mountains there would be a strong flow of water and since it is only one person who needs energy you could get enough power. It would be more efficient.



I said evidence, not meaningless speculation.



> It was explained in the first few chapters, to be honest I am tied down so I can't really search for it, if you have time to burn look for the image.



Concession accepted.

If you mean the first few chapters of the original Dragonball manga, you do realize that Goku doesn't start living in the house with Chichi towards the very end of DB and the beginning of DBZ, right?



> No, but that paticular area yes they are. Obviously the world has more mountains but where Goku lives it is pretty much isolated.



Yet they still have running water, electricity, heating, TV, etc.



> Like I said, if they live near spings they get warm water, they live in the mountains it is no really problem, do you think they are going wire water all the way from the bottom and drag it to the top when there is water supply near them?



Yes, because they're going to install running water in their house themselves.... 

Goku's too dumb to to that, and Chichi is not exactly handy.



> Heat they can get it from the ground, and they use things like trees and fires comming to think of it. With the TV it could be basic channels and the signals, bulma is their best freind who has a dragon radar which can track little balls all over the world.



And this is relevant.... how?



> Um yes some people do, people who set up solar pannels outside of there house, people who set up windmills, people who use the earths natural resources get free electricity. And some people actually take these options.



There are no solar panels or windmills near Goku's house....



> So goku is able to IT and pick up other people to fight for him then? Like I said, Lex Vs Goku, if he brings in other people it becomes Lex and Y an Z vs Goku.



No, because Lex gets prep, and Goku does not. What part of this do you not understand?



> I don't really care too be honest.



In that case, conceed your arguments. If you don't care, it won't be a problem for you to do so, right?



> When I said I doubt it, it meant I doubt lex can create and ilness for Goku as I see no reason why how he would find weaknesses in Goku body and create a virus from that.



Considering Goku has already proven susceptible to disease, and Lex has the world's smartest genetic engineers on his payroll....



> Maybe he could like I said ''I doubt it''. If you think it is incorrect for me to doubt this show me something that rids this doubt rather than say '''isn't a good arguement''.



I already did. You're just being stubborn.



> Huh in battledome threads don't they usually know they have to fight one another, or was something stated in the first post which I missed out?



One - sided prep. Do you understand the concept?


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## Gunners (Nov 30, 2006)

> I said evidence, not meaningless speculation.



You provide evidence suggesting they pay for their electricity, otherwise I go with the one which is most likely.



> Concession accepted.
> 
> If you mean the first few chapters of the original Dragonball manga, you do realize that Goku doesn't start living in the house with Chichi towards the very end of DB and the beginning of DBZ, right?



He still lives in the same mountains.

You know what I can't bebothered with the rest of this Im gonna sleep.


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## Endless Mike (Nov 30, 2006)

gunners said:


> You provide evidence suggesting they pay for their electricity, otherwise I go with the one which is most likely.



The fact that people generally get electricity by paying?

Stop trying to shift the burden of proof.



> He still lives in the same mountains.
> 
> You know what I can't bebothered with the rest of this Im gonna sleep.



And this is stated where?

It's never stated exactly where he lives.


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## Thanatos (Nov 30, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> The fact that people generally get electricity by paying?
> 
> Stop trying to shift the burden of proof.



Actually, in this particular case, it is you who has to provide proof. You are the one who stated that they pay for their electricity (and they don't have a TV BTW, they usually watch Roshi's). 

It's a fair assumption to make, but there has yet to be anything shown that can back up this claim.



Endless Mike said:


> And this is stated where?
> 
> It's never stated exactly where he lives.



While I can't remember exactly, the only statement about where they live is 200 or so miles out of 'town' (whatever town that may be). Videl says that when Gohan goes to his first day of school, and she asks him where he lives.


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## Endless Mike (Nov 30, 2006)

Mortalis said:


> Actually, in this particular case, it is you who has to provide proof. You are the one who stated that they pay for their electricity (and they don't have a TV BTW, they usually watch Roshi's).



Yet I showed a scan where they had a TV.... 



> It's a fair assumption to make, but there has yet to be anything shown that can back up this claim.



It's generally the way people get electricity, there's no evidence they get it any other way.



> While I can't remember exactly, the only statement about where they live is 200 or so miles out of 'town' (whatever town that may be). Videl says that when Gohan goes to his first day of school, and she asks him where he lives.



That's hardly specific.


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## Thanatos (Nov 30, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> Yet I showed a scan where they had a TV....



Really? I don't remember ever seeing one (I haven't seen your scan yet).



Endless Mike said:


> It's generally the way people get electricity, there's no evidence they get it any other way.



But there's no evidence that they get it that way either.



Endless Mike said:


> That's hardly specific.



I didn't say I was being specific. My exact words were "While I can't remember exactly..."


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## Endless Mike (Nov 30, 2006)

Mortalis said:


> Really? I don't remember ever seeing one (I haven't seen your scan yet).



Go back a page or two, it's there.



> But there's no evidence that they get it that way either.



Other than the fact that the vast majority of people get it that way....


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## Thanatos (Nov 30, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> Other than the fact that the vast majority of people get it that way....



There is no evidence to suggest that Electricity is a paid for commodity in DBZ, other then applying reality to it.

As for the TV, in the series, I always got the impression that that was Chichi's father's house, not their's (I know now that isn't the case). 

As for them living in the mountains, generally people think that because of pictures like this:

Pokemon D/P Episode 10

Look behind Goku, top left frame.


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## Endless Mike (Nov 30, 2006)

Mortalis said:


> There is no evidence to suggest that Electricity is a paid for commodity in DBZ, other then applying reality to it.



Which is wrong because?



> As for the TV, in the series, I always got the impression that that was Chichi's father's house, not their's (I know now that isn't the case).
> 
> As for them living in the mountains, generally people think that because of pictures like this:
> 
> ...



That looks more like a hill to me....

Anyway, I never denied that he lived near mountains or wilderness, just that I don't think it was stated that he lived the same place where he grew up.


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## Thanatos (Dec 1, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> Which is wrong because?



Because DB is set in a different time frame to our own... although, for the life of me, I couldn't tell you _which_ time frame.



Endless Mike said:


> That looks more like a hill to me....



And it looks more like a mountain to me. 



Endless Mike said:


> Anyway, I never denied that he lived near mountains or wilderness, just that I don't think it was stated that he lived the same place where he grew up.



Meh, I don't think there's anything to suggest that he does live in the same place he grew up, so I'll take a stab in the dark and say that jplaya suggested that one.


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## TRTrunks (Dec 1, 2006)

Justice And Rule said:


> If Lex were to take maybe a week to study Goku's past, he'd pull out a fast-acting virus strain, delay Goku by talking (As is normally the case in DBZ), and watch as Goku began to convulse as the virus took hold of his system.
> 
> Hell, he wouldn't even have to calculate it out beyond maybe _2_ decimal points this time.



yea, but thanks to goku's incredible stupidity lex would befriend him then defeat him..


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## jplaya2023 (Dec 1, 2006)

Endless Mike im still waiting on the scans that prove goku or chi chi pay bills and have jobs


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## Endless Mike (Dec 1, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:


> Endless Mike im still waiting on the scans that prove goku or chi chi pay bills and have jobs



And I'm still waiting for you to grow a brain and use some fucking common sense.


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## jplaya2023 (Dec 1, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> And I'm still waiting for you to grow a brain and use some fucking common sense.



so no  scans = concession accepted

thanks for playing


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## Endless Mike (Dec 1, 2006)

You can't demand proof of something so fucking obvious.

If they don't work at something, how do they make a living? How do they pay for their house, buy food, get electricity, running water, TV, clothes, lightbulbs, furniture, silverware, everything?


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## Kai (Dec 1, 2006)

Mortalis said:


> Meh, I don't think there's anything to suggest that he does live in the same place he grew up, so I'll take a stab in the dark and say that jplaya suggested that one.



I remember playing the Legacy of Goku II, and you start off at Goku's house and Goku's grandpa's house is right next door


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## Endless Mike (Dec 1, 2006)

Space said:


> I remember playing the Legacy of Goku II, and you start off at Goku's house and Goku's grandpa's house is right next door



And we all know that's canon....


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## Kai (Dec 1, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> And we all know that's canon....



Sorry for posting it, just a little something  

However in this debate, Lex has forever to think of something to kill Goku. Goku doesn't know Lex, and he has no idea that there's danger. Goku doesn't live a perfect life. It has many openings and "opportunities' for Lex to prepare something and kill him.


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## Limit_Tester (Dec 2, 2006)

Considering all the time and energy that Lex has put into try and kill superman, and STILL hasn't succeeded, I'm going to say killing goku is a no go especially considering he has no "kryptonite."


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## Endless Mike (Dec 2, 2006)

Limit_Tester said:


> Considering all the time and energy that Lex has put into try and kill superman, and STILL hasn't succeeded, I'm going to say killing goku is a no go especially considering he has no "kryptonite."



Because he doesn't get completely one - sided prep against Superman....


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