# Tulkas vs. Sauron (with ring) + Saruman



## copydog123 (Nov 1, 2012)

So the physically strongest vala vs. two of the strongest maia. 

A valar is obviously strong but remember even ungoliant (who most likely was a maiar) under certain circumstances could evenly fight valar.


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## Endless Mike (Nov 1, 2012)

We don't know exactly what Ungoliant was


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## Crimson Dragoon (Nov 1, 2012)

Tulkas crumples them up as if they were empty beer cans


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## Irrational Destroyer (Nov 2, 2012)

If I remember correctly from my reading of Silmarillion several months ago, Tulkas defeated Morgoth which should give him the capacity to defeat Sauron and Saruman.


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## tashtin (Nov 2, 2012)

Tulkas never demonstrated any feats of "power" but he was still able to bring down morgoth with strength alone. It's safe to say the lesser gods get stomped - literally



copydog123 said:


> A valar is obviously strong but remember even ungoliant (who most likely was a maiar) under certain circumstances could evenly fight valar.



Those circumstances involved drinking "god juice" out of trees that birthed the sun and the moon. The rings of power pale in comparison.

Also, ungoliant is never defined as being a maiar - she just appears out of the darkness. Tolkien enthusiasts say she may well be the embodiment of the darkness/ void


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 2, 2012)

Irrational Destroyer said:


> If I remember correctly from my reading of Silmarillion several months ago, Tulkas defeated Morgoth which should give him the capacity to defeat Sauron and Saruman.



he defeated Melkor after he laughed in the guys face and caused earth quakes and lightening storms while doing so IIRC

Tulkas rage could be felt all over the world and Morgoth was outright terrified of him

Eonwe the herald of Manwe titty stomped Sauron there's no way in hell they're handling one of the most powerful beings ever conceived by Eru



copydog123 said:


> So the physically strongest vala vs. two of the strongest maia.
> 
> A valar is obviously strong but remember even ungoliant (who most likely was a maiar) under certain circumstances could evenly fight valar.



you don't seem to very well informed when it comes to ring lore Ungoliant was roided on a great deal of power and had covered a portion of the planet in her dakness..she was enormously powerful at that point

Tulkas is going to shit kick these guys


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## Cromer (Nov 2, 2012)

What would even make this battle a good idea to make a thread for? It's like putting preskip Sasuke against Darkseid, i.e. total stomp.


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## tashtin (Nov 2, 2012)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> he defeated Melkor after he laughed in the guys face and caused earth quakes and lightening storms while doing so IIRC



he did create earthquakes - simply by running after morgoth, though its never mentioned if earthquakes were an after effect of his wrestle with morgoth (logic would dictate that he did).

I don't think he ever created lightning storms though. he's explicitly stated to be a physical valar and he's greatest strength feat is holding together the ruined earth/ land masses


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## Luna (Nov 2, 2012)

Tulkas completely rapes.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 2, 2012)

tashtin said:


> I don't think he ever created lightning storms though. he's explicitly stated to be a physical valar and he's greatest strength feat is holding together the ruined earth/ land masses



I think the lightening comes from his intro into Arda I recall his laughter being described as a thunder that passes the earth and echoes into even the darkest places


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## copydog123 (Nov 2, 2012)

The reason I brought up ungoliant was that even though she grew extremely powerful enough to trap melkor (morgoth), *she was chased away by a group of balrogs*. 

And in the creation scale, balrogs are on the same level as saruman and sasuron - they are all maia (in fact that's the most plausible explanation for balrogs)

Now granted morgoth himself was in a diminished form compared to his melkor self, but it still provides enough debate ground in a way. Since a valar was defeated by a creature (or spiritual being - ungoliant) who was in turn chased away by a group of maiar. 

In other words, morgoth had to rely on his maiar to save him.


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## Luna (Nov 2, 2012)

copydog123 said:


> The reason I brought up ungoliant was that even though she grew extremely powerful enough to trap melkor (morgoth), *she was chased away by a group of balrogs*.
> 
> And in the creation scale, balrogs are on the same level as saruman and sasuron - they are all maia (in fact that's the most plausible explanation for balrogs)
> 
> ...



Couldn't that just be considered PIS? I apologize if it's not though, or if I am using the term incorrectly or the wrong word altogether.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 4, 2012)

copydog123 said:


> The reason I brought up ungoliant was that even though she grew extremely powerful enough to trap melkor (morgoth), *she was chased away by a group of balrogs*. ]


\

Balrogs are beings who more or less mortally wounded Feanor the being who captured the divine light of god in gems..

killed Glorfindale and Exthelion two of the most powerful elves to ever live.

a Balrog mortally wounded a form Olorin was bound in.

Basically you bringing them up as if they matter in a different set of circumstances matters



copydog123 said:


> And in the creation scale, balrogs are on the same level as saruman and sasuron - they are all maia (in fact that's the most plausible explanation for balrogs)



you really know nothing about the tolkien universe

yeah Balrogs are Maiar and yes the Istari are as well..guess what? there's a fucking Maiar pecking order

unless you seriously think Sauron and Saruman would stand a chance against Eonwe or something when LOL no they'd be raped



copydog123 said:


> Now granted morgoth himself was in a diminished form compared to his melkor self, but it still provides enough debate ground in a way. Since a valar was defeated by a creature (or spiritual being - ungoliant) who was in turn chased away by a group of maiar.



horrible use of reasoning Morgoth was far from the monster he was when he was raising mountains and boiling over oceans



copydog123 said:


> In other words, morgoth had to rely on his maiar to save him.



in other words your abc logic fails and Tulkas murder stomps


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## Luna (Nov 4, 2012)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> \
> 
> Balrogs are beings who more or less mortally wounded Feanor the being who captured the divine light of god in gems..
> 
> ...



Your knowledge on Tolkien's work is quite admirable. I'm very impressed.


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## Twinsen (Nov 4, 2012)

copydog123 said:


> So the physically strongest vala vs. two of the strongest maia.
> 
> A valar is obviously strong but remember even ungoliant (who most likely was a maiar) under certain circumstances could evenly fight valar.



Have you read the Silmarillion? Looking at your posts I'm inclined to say no.

TIW is right this is a terrible stomp.


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