# Positive Portrayals of Women in Video Gaming



## Zaelapolopollo (Dec 14, 2011)

So this was a pretty lively thread on SomethingAwful so I thought I'd steal the idea and see what responses people here have.

Which women in gaming are actually good characters ie. not brainless beauties in need of saving or some skankified "badass"?

I realize it's probably not the most obvious choice considering the series but I really don't like The Boss. So I'm gonna say another MGS female.

*Olga Gurlukovich - Metal Gear Solid 2*


A skilled soldier with a very deep connection to her war buddies. Nevertheless, she was forced into a most unenviable position - to sacrifice one family for her actual family. She did everything for her baby and when it came time to make the ultimate sacrifice, she lamented what she had done and made no excuses.

She was really just one of the strongest and most respectable characters in the series.


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## Naruko (Dec 14, 2011)

Femme-Shepard.


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## Krory (Dec 14, 2011)

Ellie Langford (Dead Space 2).

A heavy-pilot, first time you encounter Ellie in Dead Space 2, she's holding off a horde of Necromorphs on her own (and one of the few people smart enough to use a TOOL such as a plasma cutter to dismember them). As opposed to most heroine side-characters, Ellie is not someone that often needs to be saved...


*Spoiler*: _Dead Space 2 Spoilers_ 



For example on one occasion, it seems that she is being attacked by another character, Stross - so Isaac races to save the "damsel in distress" to find Stross has already ripped out her eye with a screwdriver. Of course, Ellie gets right back up and nails Stross across the back of the head with a piece of debris.

Later on, when Isaac tries to "save" her again by sending her off in a gunship by herself towards the end of the game. When Isaac has ended the final fight and plops himself down to die in the space city of the Sprawl as it's being destroyed, Ellie comes across his communications to curse him out, then tell him to get ready as she drives said gunship through the roof of the room he's in, pick him up, and fly away from the Sprawl - saving the hero.


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## Aruarian (Dec 14, 2011)

Two words: Duke Nukem.


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## Hana (Dec 14, 2011)

I'll just list my favorites since positive portrayal can be subjective. Female Shepard (Mass Effect series), Jade (Beyond Good and Evil), Alyx Vance (Half Life 2), and Maya (Septerra Core).

Edit: Crap I forgot Faith Connors (Mirror's Edge).

The thing that all these women have in common is that their gender is not what defines them.


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## CrazyMoronX (Dec 14, 2011)

All them FF girls get pretty good showings.


And pretty good T&A, too.


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## WolfPrinceKiba (Dec 14, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> All them FF girls get pretty good showings.
> 
> 
> And pretty good T&A, too.


Most of them are brainless beauties in need of sacing or skankified "badasses" though as the OP would put it, well at least the females in the FF games after VI(excluding IX and to a lesser extent XII). 

Tifa: Skankified "badass"
Aerith: Definitely not brainless but is considered to be in need of saving and shes the perfect little flower girl
Yuffie: Underaged and pretty much there for fanservice

Selphie: Brainless, underaged and pretty much there for fanservice
Quistis: Blatant fanservice

Rikku: Underaged blatant fanservice
Yuna: Doormat
Lulu: Blatant fanservice


Celes and Terra though are both positive portrayals of women


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## CrazyMoronX (Dec 14, 2011)

I'm talking about earlier FF.

Celes and Terra were main characters and the two most powerful in FFVI.
FFV had two powerful sluts--one of them was a cross-dressing dyke.
Rosa was a respectful hottie in FFIV.
FFIII hated women.
FFII had a main character as a female.


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## Slice (Dec 14, 2011)

For a classic example: The very first Metroid game on NES.

I remember everyones surprise when it turned out you had been playing a woman this whole time.


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## Zaru (Dec 14, 2011)

Alyx Vance from HL2 is an obvious pick.


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## Furious George (Dec 14, 2011)

Madison Paige, Heavy Rain.

She about her business.

Even though she does have nude scenes in the game (all optional) they are handled pretty tastefully.

-------------------

And I'll third Alyx Vance


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## martryn (Dec 14, 2011)

Agrias from Final Fantasy Tactics would be a FF example.  Though once you control her as a member of your team and not a guest she doesn't say another word for the rest of the game.


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## Krory (Dec 14, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> I'm talking about earlier FF.
> 
> Celes and Terra were main characters and the two most powerful in FFVI.
> FFV had two powerful sluts--one of them was a cross-dressing dyke.
> ...



Terra - timid and fearful
Celes - snooty and wears a leotard
Rosa - Obligatory healing-bitch and sole purpose of love interest


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## Jon Snow (Dec 14, 2011)

Claire Redfield and Jill Valentine (Resident Evil pre 4)


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## Krory (Dec 14, 2011)

Jon Snow said:


> Claire Redfield and *Jill Valentine* (Resident Evil pre 4)



Bwuahahaha!


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## Zaru (Dec 14, 2011)

Furious George said:


> Madison Paige, Heavy Rain.



I was gonna mention Carla Valenti from Heavy Rain's "predecessor", Indigo Prophecies/Fahrenheit, but then I remembered that she got knocked up at the end or something


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## Sephiroth (Dec 14, 2011)

Samus...oh wait nevermind.


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## Bluth (Dec 15, 2011)

Alyx Vance is probably the best example.  Smart, resourceful, charming, realistic figure while still looking attractive...pretty much the perfect girlfriend.


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## dream (Dec 15, 2011)

Joanna Dark from Perfect Dark was the first positive portrayal of a female that I saw in a videogame though there really wasn't much to her character.


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## Krory (Dec 15, 2011)

Eternal Goob said:


> Joanna Dark from Perfect Dark was the first positive portrayal of a female that I saw in a videogame though there really wasn't much to her character.



The Samus Syndrome.

Sure, they're interesting when people aren't busy fucking them up... then they think character development is daddy issues and misogyny.


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## KidTony (Dec 15, 2011)

Elena Fisher from the uncharted series.


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## Krory (Dec 15, 2011)

I always assumed women in Uncharted were basically just cock-holders for Nathan Drake. Just like in Indiana Jones.


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## The World (Dec 15, 2011)

Gotta love Olga and those unshaven armpits. Screams badass bitch.


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## Krory (Dec 15, 2011)

Or it screams typical stereotyped European female.


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## Furious George (Dec 15, 2011)

Krory said:


> I always assumed women in Uncharted were basically just cock-holders for Nathan Drake. Just like in Indiana Jones.



Meh. Elena and Chloe are essentially "Bond Girls" but they are at least fun and well-realized. Most VG girls are vapid, obvious and not even very satisfying in the fanservice department.


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## Krory (Dec 15, 2011)

You mean like virtually every FF female? 

And almost just as many JRPG females.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Dec 15, 2011)

Krory said:


> Or it screams typical stereotyped European female.



I don't think the armpit hair is there because she's European. Unless most European women also sport that haircut.

I think she's just supposed to be a soldier and soldiers probably don't have the luxury of unnecessary grooming.


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## Gnome (Dec 15, 2011)

Dont be ridiculous, Moe is a positive portrayal of women that your feeble american mind just can't comprehend. /weeaboo


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## The World (Dec 15, 2011)

Moe is streets ahead of Krory.


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## Krory (Dec 15, 2011)

Zaelapolopollo said:


> I don't think the armpit hair is there because she's European. Unless European women also sport that haircut.
> 
> I think she's just supposed to be a soldier and soldiers probably don't have the luxury of unnecessary grooming.



Or it's because she's European.


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## dream (Dec 15, 2011)

Saber was a pretty awesome positive portrayal of a woman.


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## Krory (Dec 15, 2011)

The World said:


> Moe is *streets ahead* of Krory.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Dec 15, 2011)

Ya know, it's sad that LOK really doesn't have any standout female characters.

I suppose there's Ariel. She's a good character and all but I just figured a more positive representation of women would be les impotent and pitiable.


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## Furious George (Dec 15, 2011)

Zaelapolopollo said:


> Ya know, it's sad that LOK really doesn't have any standout female characters.
> 
> I suppose there's Ariel. She's a good character and all but I just figured a more positive representation of women would be les impotent and pitiable.



They had that one purple girl in Blood Omen 2 that Kain, like, randomly fell in love with... but I guess she wouldn't count.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Dec 15, 2011)

Ah, Umah. Like everything in Blood Omen 2, some nice ideas buried under a mountain of really bad ones.

I'm surprised at you though. And other posters too. Where is THe Boss' fanatical fandom? I was kinda counting on you guys to show up and lavish praise on her about how she's one of the best written women in gaming history.

Not that she isn't well-written. I just don't like her character. if that makes sense.


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## Furious George (Dec 15, 2011)

Zaelapolopollo said:


> Ah, Umah. Like everything in Blood Omen 2, some nice ideas buried under a mountain of really bad ones.
> 
> I'm surprised at you though. And other posters too. Where is THe Boss' fanatical fandom? I was kinda counting on you guys to show up and lavish praise on her about how she's one of the best written women in gaming history.
> 
> Not that she isn't well-written. I just don't like her character. if that makes sense.



Yeah, it is weird that no one mentioned her, myself included.

I think its because when you look at The Boss you don't really see a powerful female character as much as you just see a powerful character.... I think in a weird a way that actually shows just how well-written she was. She's not an awesome female but rather an awesome character that just happens to be female.

Or maybe no one mentioned her because you already kind of mentioned her in the first post. The psychology in forums is weird like that sometimes.


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## Krory (Dec 15, 2011)

I don't really like the Boss, so I didn't mention her.


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## Deathbringerpt (Dec 15, 2011)




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## Krory (Dec 15, 2011)

Only on DoA in MP2. Otherwise she gets fucked.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Dec 15, 2011)

Would Kreia from KOTOR II be a good example?


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## Krory (Dec 15, 2011)

I want to say Bernadette Mataki (Gears of War - really only 3), but that was only because of the books. She shows little in the last game, but still a badass old, grizzled sniper lady. Though she was "womanized" in the book by being a rape victim, she _did_ skin at least one of her rapists alive after she hunted him down.

But again... none of the juicy details in the game.


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## Deathbringerpt (Dec 15, 2011)

Krory said:


> Only on DoA in MP2. Otherwise she gets fucked.



Oh but she gets fucked in any difficulty setting.


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## Krory (Dec 15, 2011)

Deathbringerpt said:


> Oh but she gets fucked in any difficulty setting.



But in DoA she - oh I see what you did there.


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## Esura (Dec 15, 2011)

Furious George said:


> Meh. Elena and Chloe are essentially "Bond Girls" but they are at least fun and well-realized. Most VG girls are vapid, obvious and not even very satisfying in the fanservice department.


Oh I hate you for that. Don't be dissin' my Yuna doll.


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## KidTony (Dec 15, 2011)

Elena is smart, funny, can take care of herself, hardly ever needs saving, and has saved Nate once or twice. She's no bond girl.


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## Squall Leonhart (Dec 15, 2011)

I'm not fully sure what you mean, a strong capable female that has skill in battle OR a female that has some depth instead of beauty alone?

Anyway, I guess.. Sarah Kerrigan?


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## Wolfarus (Dec 15, 2011)

Squall Leonhart said:


> I'm not fully sure what you mean, a strong capable female that has skill in battle OR a female that has some depth instead of beauty alone?
> 
> Anyway, I guess.. Sarah Kerrigan?



I think the OP meant women who can take care of themselves (or others) in battle situations, w/o looking like their 2ndary purpose in existing is providing yet another hot bod to fap over, whom also have character depth and variety that you just wouldnt see with "pretty faces/hot bodies with a gun" sort of character.

All the ones i thought of have already been mentioned, so yeh..


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## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 15, 2011)

Hmm female pokemon trainer if you pick her.


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## Esura (Dec 15, 2011)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> Hmm female pokemon trainer if you pick her.



Agreed.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Yk_-Lu_CEI[/YOUTUBE]


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## Gaawa-chan (Dec 15, 2011)

... Shanoa from Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia.  Surprising considering how crappy most of the CV female characters are.


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## liamcourt (Dec 15, 2011)

Zaru said:


> Alyx Vance from HL2 is an obvious pick.



Bwuahahaha!


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## Shooting burst stream (Dec 15, 2011)

Okay I guess I could put a few up here.

Emma Honeywell from The Last Remnant

*Spoiler*: __ 




Far from being the damsel in distress, this general will kick the ass of anyone who gets in her way of defending her lord even going so far as charging into certain death against the Conqueror and was the only Athlum soldier to last more than a few seconds against and even managed to cut him before he stopped playing with her.




Oerba Yun Fang from Final Fantasy XIII

*Spoiler*: __ 




One of the few FF girls who qualifies for this. Not only can she kick some ass which is always a plus but she is also willing to give an arm and a leg if it will save her friends. At one point she tries to betray her promise with her friends in favour of saving them from becoming c'ieth when she becomes Ragnarok and attacks Orphan. She is easily the most interesting character in the entire game which is saying something since the game had a fair few interesting characters.


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## Yagami1211 (Dec 15, 2011)

Morrigan, Dragon Age : Origins !


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## Buskuv (Dec 15, 2011)

Zaelapolopollo said:


> Would Kreia from KOTOR II be a good example?



Probably one of the best, honestly.

Easily one of the smartest 'Jedi' in the entire universe; brings a perspective unseen before or since (and probably never again, fuck you, George) in the StarWars universe, intelligent, dangerous and more interesting than most of the characters in the universe as well.

Just because she's not a 'good' or 'nice' character doesn't mean she's not well written or portrayed.


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## Sephiroth (Dec 15, 2011)

Kerrigan is definitely one of the best choices.


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## Krory (Dec 15, 2011)

One of the most important factors of a "Positive" portrayal of a female character is how often that character needs to be saved by a big, strong man.

So if you say someone like Jill Valentine, whose sole purpose is to be saved and babied by Barry Burton, you are wrong.


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## Sephiroth (Dec 15, 2011)

Krory said:


> So if you say someone like Jill Valentine, whose sole purpose is to be saved and babied by Barry Burton, you are wrong.



Can I say Resident Evil 3 Jill? But then there is RE5, ah nevermind.


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## Krory (Dec 15, 2011)

RE3 = Needed to be saved by Carlos, and Barry.


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## Sephiroth (Dec 15, 2011)

Krory said:


> RE3 = Needed to be saved by Carlos, and Barry.



Even Claire was saved multiple times, so that's not fair.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 15, 2011)

Metroid other M samus.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Dec 15, 2011)

This is _Capcom_ we're talking about here people.

As Yahtzee said, they're not bad people - they're just idiots.

They haven't even had one truly positive portrayal of men either. Well maybe Billy Coenbut mostly their male characters are as stereotypical as their females.


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## Sephiroth (Dec 15, 2011)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> Metroid other M samus.


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## Krory (Dec 15, 2011)

Sephiroth said:


> Even Claire was saved multiple times, so that's not fair.



Only once in the span of her two games. Unlike Jill, she still managed to show a degree of being a complete badass. Whereas with Jill's second go around, she's still going "What are these creatures? Oh noes?!" Claire is going "YOU HAVE TO SHOOT THEM IN THE HEAD, STEVE, YOU NOOB!!"




Unlosing Ranger said:


> Metroid other M samus.





And lol at following anything Yahtzee says.


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## Sephiroth (Dec 15, 2011)

Valkyria Chronicles all around.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 15, 2011)

Krory said:


>


Baynonetta


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## Gunners (Dec 15, 2011)




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## Death Certificate (Dec 15, 2011)

Lara Croft


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## Krory (Dec 15, 2011)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> Baynonetta



Kind of legit since the developers got all emo when they learned there was Bayonetta porn.




Death Certificate said:


> Lara Croft



No problem. Morons aren't worth the effort.


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## Sephiroth (Dec 15, 2011)

metal-gear-solid-5-screenshots

Hohoho.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 15, 2011)

Krory said:


> Kind of legit since the developers got all emo when they learned there was Bayonetta porn.



Then Bayonetta accomplished her goal of being a porn star


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## andrea (Dec 15, 2011)

Probably been mentioned before, but I really liked Heather from Silent Hill 3.


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## Devil Kings (Dec 15, 2011)

Beatrix from FF9
Trish from DMC1/DMC4
Lenneth from Valkyrie Profile
Nina from BOF2, she's a badass and fan service.


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## Krory (Dec 15, 2011)

Lol, Trish...


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## Sephiroth (Dec 15, 2011)

I think Ashelin was a pretty good character.


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## Naruto (Dec 15, 2011)

Naruko said:


> Femme-Shepard.



The only real answer.


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## Killerqueen (Dec 15, 2011)

saika magoichi (Sengoku basara)
Every girl in No more heroes


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## Krory (Dec 15, 2011)

Naruto said:


> The only real answer.



Screw you, my answer was right.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Dec 15, 2011)

Krory said:
			
		

> And lol at following anything Yahtzee says.



The truth is the truth. Capcom are idiots.

And ya know, some women in JRPGs are pretty strong and stuff. It's just the designs that keep them from being better examples.

Like Ashe in FFXII. She was a very strong young woman but she also had some stupid illogical miniskirt outfit.


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## Krory (Dec 15, 2011)

The truth is Yahtzee is just a "character" that's written by a cast of people.

It's like believing soap operas or professional wrestling.


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## Spanish Hoffkage (Dec 15, 2011)

Ms. Pacman.

You retards.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Dec 15, 2011)

Krory said:


> The truth is Yahtzee is just a "character" that's written by a cast of people.
> 
> It's like believing soap operas or professional wrestling.



Ben doesn't write his own stuff? I didn't know that.

And regardless of him being a character, if what he says is right, it's right. James Rolfe is a perfectly nice, even-tempered fellow but that doesn't change how right he is when he plays the Angry Video Game Nerd and  rants about how Ghostbusters for the NES sucks.

Yahtzee, the Nerd, Spoony, they all are there to entertain as internet personalities but they do actually have to give an opinion since they're reviewers.


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## Esura (Dec 15, 2011)

Aya Brea from Parasite Eve.


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## Seraphine (Dec 15, 2011)

Mitsuru Kirijo from Persona 3.


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## Esura (Dec 15, 2011)

Mitsuru is so hot.


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## Krory (Dec 15, 2011)

Esura said:


> Aya Brea from Parasite Eve.



Until the 3rd Birthday, that is.


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## Krory (Dec 15, 2011)

Zaelapolopollo said:


> Ben doesn't write his own stuff? I didn't know that.
> 
> And regardless of him being a character, if what he says is right, it's right. James Rolfe is a perfectly nice, even-tempered fellow but that doesn't change how right he is when he plays the Angry Video Game Nerd and  rants about how Ghostbusters for the NES sucks.
> 
> Yahtzee, the Nerd, Spoony, they all are there to entertain as internet personalities but they do actually have to give an opinion since they're reviewers.



There's a difference between giving opinions and being a "shock jock" like Yahtzee is. He has often voiced his disapproval of some of the complaints "Yahtzee" had to give, disagreeing with them outright. It's all just acting.


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## Gaawa-chan (Dec 15, 2011)

Guys, guys... speaking as a female gamer:

There is nothing wrong with video game girls occasionally needing to be rescued in a dire situation or being shown in a sexual light- girls sometimes need help, too, and girls are sexual creatures just like men.

These things are only a problem when they are all that a character has going for them (aka, the cutesy purity sue damsel in distress vs the ice-queen/dominatrix sex symbol).

Personally I think that a positive portrayal of a female in a video game requires a certain amount of development that doesn't result in falling completely back upon the aforementioned cliches.


It's worth noting that there are a lot of not so nice portrayals of men in video games as well for similar reasons... >_>


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## Krory (Dec 15, 2011)

>Pointing out the obvious

Leave it to a FEMALE gamer.


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## Buskuv (Dec 15, 2011)

>no positive male examples

In case you didn't know, 30something, white, balding and brooding is for what all men strive.


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## Deathbringerpt (Dec 15, 2011)

Krory said:


> >Pointing out the obvious
> 
> Leave it to a FEMALE gamer.



Actually, she has a point. You're a little too adamant on taking the need to be rescued as an automatic sign of a bad character trait.

It's all sensitive to the situation, dudeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.


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## Lilichanne (Dec 15, 2011)

FF13 Lightning <3


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## SasuOna (Dec 15, 2011)

Sam Bryne from Gears of War 
Alyx Vance
Femme Shep

I have more but these stick out the most to me


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## Buskuv (Dec 15, 2011)

Lilichanne said:


> FF13 Lightning <3



I don't think giving Cloud breasts counts as a new character.


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## Krory (Dec 15, 2011)

Deathbringerpt said:


> Actually, she has a point. You're a little too adamant on taking the need to be rescued as an automatic sign of a bad character trait.
> 
> It's all sensitive to the situation, dudeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.



But as she said, when it is their only quality - such as was the case with Jill in both RE1 and 3 (and depending on who you ask, 5). Then Aya Brea's "new and improved character!" in the 3rd Birthday, and to some extension Samus Aran in Other M.

And of course she has a point - as I just said, she's pointing out the _obvious_.


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## SasuOna (Dec 15, 2011)

Samus used to be a positive portrayal and then the Other M happened.......


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## Gnome (Dec 15, 2011)

Was it really a positive portrayal though or just one that wasn't negative?


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## Buskuv (Dec 15, 2011)

It wasn't really a portrayal of anything until very recently.

Samus could've have been a furry for all the difference it would have made; you were a Bounty Hunter with a suit and you killed aliens.  That's about it.


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## SasuOna (Dec 15, 2011)

^Hardcore alien Bounty Hunter 
I like it 
Come to think of it she works best as a silent protagonist


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## Cjones (Dec 15, 2011)

Tifa/Aerith - FF7. 

Lulu - FFX. 

Beatrix - FFIX. Woman got shit done. 

Agrias - FF Tactics. When she was in the party as a guest character.

Jade - Beyond Good and Evil. 

Marle - Chrono Trigger.

Princess Nina - Breath of Fire. 

Sun Lian - Jade Empire.

Some off the top of my head.


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## Death-kun (Dec 15, 2011)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> I don't think giving Cloud breasts counts as a new character.



But it is kinda hot. Have you _SEEN_ him in that dress and wig? All night, every night.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Dec 15, 2011)

Actually, the thread on SA also devolved in talking about male stereotypes in gaming.Particularly a lot of it revolved around BioWare games' and how they deal with romantic relationships.

A lot of people brought up how their wives liked Alistair in Dragon Age 1. My girlfriend also likes him and from what I've seen, he's one of the better reps of my sex.


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## -Dargor- (Dec 15, 2011)

Coming up next : "positive" portrayals of Black people in video games.


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## Gaawa-chan (Dec 15, 2011)

Rosalina from the Mario Galaxy games, perhaps?  A good example of how a character can be both 'girly' and 'powerful.'



-Dargor- said:


> Coming up next : "positive" portrayals of Black people in video games.



Sadly not many, though they are arguably better represented than Muslims, for example. >_>


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## nintendosucks (Dec 15, 2011)

Postive portrayal of women in video games, they are sexy and curvy.


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## Gomu Ningen (Dec 15, 2011)

I haven't played any cooking-type games revolving around the kitchen, which are the types of games I would expect to accurately portray women.


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## Sephiroth (Dec 15, 2011)

Gomu Ningen said:


> I haven't played any cooking-type games revolving around the kitchen, which are the types of games I would expect to accurately portray women.



Cooking Mama?


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## Naruto (Dec 16, 2011)

Gaawa-chan said:


> Guys, guys... speaking as a female gamer:
> 
> There is nothing wrong with video game girls occasionally needing to be rescued in a dire situation or being shown in a sexual light- girls sometimes need help, too, and girls are sexual creatures just like men.
> 
> ...



The problem is that it's almost exclusively women who have to be rescued, and even when there's a strong female they always make sure to include a man who is better than her.

In my opinion, a good female character in videogames in this day and age has to follow Shepard's example. Shepard is competent and badass and she doesn't get overshadowed by anyone. Shepard carries herself like a soldier at all times. Even when interacting with romanceable characters she takes charge.

I'm not saying women can't be sexy or vulnerable. I'm saying for it to be acceptable we have to have a more prevalent presence of women portrayed in a different light.


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## Cromer (Dec 16, 2011)

Shina Gado?


Shepard?



Saber? (Stretching it, I know...)




Gaawa-chan said:


> Rosalina from the Mario Galaxy games, perhaps?  A good example of how a character can be both 'girly' and 'powerful.'
> 
> 
> 
> Sadly not many, *though they are arguably better represented than Muslims, for example*. >_>



Hell, I have yet to see a SINGLE acceptable representation of a Muslim in gaming. That's like expecting a fair potrayal of a Soviet in American media of the early 80s/late 70s.

And how did I for get Jade and the protagonist of _Jade Empire?_


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## James Bond (Dec 16, 2011)

Not so much... 
*Spoiler*: __


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## Buskuv (Dec 16, 2011)

BUT SHE HAS NO PERSONALITY

SHE DOESNT SAY ANYTHING


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## James Bond (Dec 16, 2011)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> BUT SHE HAS NO PERSONALITY
> 
> SHE DOESNT SAY ANYTHING



She does when she blows someones head off, and in the context of the Borderlands game that was the only time you really heard any character talk so I think she was on even playfield with the male counterparts of the game for that matter and a positive example of a women in a video game...

Also she wasnt designed with massive knockers.


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## Bioness (Dec 16, 2011)

Sephiroth said:


> Samus...oh wait nevermind.



Samus use to be until they turned her into a whore who gets half naked each game.

Women in video games are rarely as diverse as the men. Men can be fat, skinny, buff, ugly, old, average. With women they just have the same body type over and over and over again, there are a few exceptions but they are just that few.


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## James Bond (Dec 16, 2011)

Bioness said:


> Samus use to be until they turned her into a whore who gets half naked each game.
> 
> Women in video games are rarely as diverse as the men. Men can be fat, skinny, buff, ugly, old, average. With women they just have the same body type over and over and over again, there are a few exceptions but they are just that few.



WoW: Princess Theradras 
*Spoiler*: __ 








Cant think of any others :E


----------



## Naruto (Dec 16, 2011)

Lilith (or any other borderlands character) doesn't have enough character development to be considered here. She barely says anything.


----------



## soulnova (Dec 16, 2011)

MGS:
Merryl. 
The Boss.
Olga. 

Lucca (Chrono Trigger) >>>> Marle
Kid (Chrono Cross) 

Miranda Keys (Halo 2/3)

Haven't played FSN but I guess Saber could be here.

Femme Shepard


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## Sephiroth (Dec 16, 2011)

Bioness said:


> Samus use to be until they turned her into a whore who gets half naked each game.
> 
> Women in video games are rarely as diverse as the men. Men can be fat, skinny, buff, ugly, old, average. With women they just have the same body type over and over and over again, there are a few exceptions but they are just that few.



I've yet to see an obese main character, male or female, or even an ugly main character unless they were some kind of monster. With male it's either the tough guy, the pretty boy, or the kid, and not much else. 

Does anybody really want to trudge around with person who has a shovel for a face though and super fat? It's not really appealing.


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## Buskuv (Dec 16, 2011)

Sephiroth said:


> I've yet to see an obese main character, male or female, or even an ugly main character unless they were some kind of monster. With male it's either the tough guy, the pretty boy, or the kid, and not much else.
> 
> Does anybody really want to trudge around with person who has a shovel for a face though and super fat? It's not really appealing.



Well, I suppose; 

but there are super-model, charming men (Uncharted, Prince of Persia), gruff, silent types (any shooter, GTA IV) aging, balding (Kane and Lynch, new Max Payne) and so forth.  Women tend to have insane waist-lines and big breasts... and that's about it.  Sometimes the hair is different.


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## Krory (Dec 16, 2011)

>Still says Ellie Langford


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## Bioness (Dec 16, 2011)

James Bond said:


> WoW: Princess Theradras
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...



Her Mother, Therazane the Stonemother



But I mean like main characters not side ones.


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## Krory (Dec 16, 2011)

I can't really think of any "fat" or "ugly" lead characters. Well, Marcus Fenix is far from good looking - but he still fits into that badass category.

Though it does bring me to the point that I at least appreciate that main male characters are no longer all twenty-something (like in every Japanese game). Hell, one of my favorites, Isaac Clarke, is forty-six. I enjoy the 'older' characters. Hell, Sam Fisher in Conviction is fifty-four. Alan Wake is only thirty-one, but still better than the nineteen year-olds that save the world.

But I digress...


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## The Boss (Dec 16, 2011)

Krory said:


> Though it does bring me to the point that I at least appreciate that main male characters are no longer all twenty-something (like in every Japanese game). Hell, one of my favorites, Isaac Clarke, is forty-six. I enjoy the 'older' characters. Hell, Sam Fisher in Conviction is fifty-four. Alan Wake is only thirty-one, but still better than the nineteen year-olds that save the world.



You yearn for older heroins because you are getting old. I know that feel.


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## Krory (Dec 16, 2011)

The Boss said:


> You yearn for older heroins because you are getting old. I know that feel.



Not even just that.

I always questioned when I was a teenager, "Why is it always someone my age that is the chosen one for destiny? It makes no sense. And why does he have purple hair?"

But alas...


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## Sephiroth (Dec 16, 2011)

I thought of one, fat and ugly, dunno how I could forget my favorite nintendo main character.



Now we just need a Mrs.Wario I suppose?


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## The Boss (Dec 16, 2011)

Krory said:


> Not even just that.
> 
> I always questioned when I was a teenager, "Why is it always someone my age that is the chosen one for destiny? It makes no sense. And why does he have purple hair?"
> 
> But alas...



I think it's because games like that are targeted towards kids/teenagers. It's not bad, it's just a different target audience. I used to like games with younger heroins once upon a time. Now it's pretty much a I've seen it all give me something else. 

The crazy hair color thing originated from Japan.. and it looks cool? Somewhat.. I guess. It shows you are rebellious.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 16, 2011)

Krory said:


> Not even just that.
> 
> I always questioned when I was a teenager, "Why is it always someone my age that is the chosen one for destiny? It makes no sense. And why does he have purple hair?"
> 
> But alas...



It's never a 99 year old frail person that saves the world :/


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## Krory (Dec 16, 2011)

The Boss said:


> I think it's because games like that are targeted towards kids/teenagers. It's not bad, it's just a different target audience. I used to like games with younger heroins once upon a time. Now it's pretty much a I've seen it all give me something else.
> 
> The crazy hair color thing originated from Japan.. and it looks cool? Somewhat.. I guess. It shows you are rebellious.



Fuck target audiences. Those people just need to be killed.

And stuff like that only "looks cool" when it's NOT THE NORM. WHEN YOU HAVE PURPLE HAIR BECAUSE YOUR MOTHER AND FATHER BOTH DO, IT'S JUST NOT RIGHT.


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## Sephiroth (Dec 16, 2011)

Different hair colors are cool though, real ones are so boring.


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## The Boss (Dec 16, 2011)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> It's never a 99 year old frail person that saves the world :/






Krory said:


> Fuck target audiences. Those people just need to be killed.
> 
> And stuff like that only "looks cool" when it's NOT THE NORM. WHEN YOU HAVE PURPLE HAIR BECAUSE YOUR MOTHER AND FATHER BOTH DO, IT'S JUST NOT RIGHT.


But you are a part of a target audience too.  

I'm not a fan of it.. but some people like it. I think it looks retarded too, but who am I to judge.


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## Krory (Dec 16, 2011)

The Boss said:


> But you are a part of a target audience too.



Exactly. We all need to be butchered. Horribly.




> I'm not a fan of it.. but some people like it. I think it looks retarded too, but *who am I to judge*.



You are a reasonable intelligent human being who needs to speak up against such atrocities. THAT'S WHO YOU ARE TO JUDGE.


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## The Boss (Dec 16, 2011)

Krory said:


> Exactly. We all need to be butchered. Horribly.


But who will do the butchering since we all are a part of a target audience. The trees? 



> You are a reasonable intelligent human being who needs to speak up against such atrocities. THAT'S WHO YOU ARE TO JUDGE.


Sounds like a lot of hard work. I'm lazy... so I'll just sit here and continue to draw the delicious commander Alenko in various poses.


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## Matta Clatta (Dec 16, 2011)

I think the main hero from Fables becomes really old(and I mean white hair and everything) after a certain part of the game


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## Krory (Dec 16, 2011)

The Boss said:


> But who will do the butchering since we all are a part of a target audience. The trees?



It worked for M. Night Shyamalan.




> Sounds like a lot of hard work. I'm lazy... so I'll just sit here and continue to draw the delicious commander Alenko in various poses.



That sounds like even more work.


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## The Boss (Dec 16, 2011)

Krory said:


> It worked for M. Night Shyamalan.


 I'm glad you got the reference. 



> That sounds like even more work.


It's never work when Kaidan is involved.


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## Cromer (Dec 16, 2011)

Krory said:


> Fuck target audiences. Those people just need to be killed.
> 
> And stuff like that only "looks cool" when it's NOT THE NORM. WHEN YOU HAVE PURPLE HAIR BECAUSE YOUR MOTHER AND FATHER BOTH DO, IT'S JUST NOT RIGHT.



I'm sigging this


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## Sephiroth (Dec 16, 2011)

I gave my Shepard bright red hair.


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## The Boss (Dec 16, 2011)

Sephiroth said:


> i gave my Shepard bright red hair.



Kill yourself.


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## Krory (Dec 16, 2011)

Better than a bleach-blonde bimbo Shepard.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 16, 2011)

Matta Clatta said:


> I think the main hero from Fables becomes really old(and I mean white hair and everything) after a certain part of the game



But he doesn't start out that way.


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## Dream Brother (Dec 16, 2011)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> Probably one of the best, honestly.
> 
> Easily one of the smartest 'Jedi' in the entire universe; brings a perspective unseen before or since (and probably never again, fuck you, George) in the StarWars universe, intelligent, dangerous and more interesting than most of the characters in the universe as well.
> 
> Just because she's not a 'good' or 'nice' character doesn't mean she's not well written or portrayed.



I've heard that she's a great character. Hopefully I'll get around to playing KOTOR 2 at some point...I'm curious.


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## Sephiroth (Dec 16, 2011)

The Boss said:


> Kill yourself.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Dec 16, 2011)

Krory said:
			
		

> I can't really think of any "fat" or "ugly" lead characters.





And even in the original game he was a thirty-year-old with a receding hairline.


In the end it was Sunny who saved the world in MGS4.


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## Sephiroth (Dec 16, 2011)

Kain falls into the monster category.


----------



## DestinyDestroyer (Dec 16, 2011)

Anybody remembers Akira Kazama from Rival Schools?


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## Sol_Blackguy (Dec 16, 2011)

DestinyDestroyer said:


> Anybody remembers Akira Kazama from Rival Schools?



Of course I do.



My favorite character in that game


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## Krory (Dec 16, 2011)

Looks emo as sin.


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## DestinyDestroyer (Dec 16, 2011)

She actually smiles at the end of the game, I think.


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## Sephiroth (Dec 16, 2011)

She is a huge fan of Megaman.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 16, 2011)

Roll is a great ... roll model.


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## Naruto (Dec 16, 2011)

Sephiroth said:


> Kain falls into the monster category.



Even the Kain from LoK:BO and LoK:BO2?


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## Zaelapolopollo (Dec 16, 2011)

He was extremely vampiric in BO2 too. Not as much in Soul Reaver of course but this is definitely not human.

Blood Omen 1 though...I think he just had weird eyes. 

Regardless, i thought we were just talking about main characters being ugly. I didn't know they had to be completely human.


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## Sol_Blackguy (Dec 16, 2011)

Im Surprised of no mention of Lady in from Devil May Cry?(My favorite Female character of all time)



She is the only human to fight against Dante and walk out alive. Although Dante was just playing around with her. She should of got a bigger role in DMC4.


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## Buskuv (Dec 16, 2011)

Dream Brother said:


> I've heard that she's a great character. Hopefully I'll get around to playing KOTOR 2 at some point...I'm curious.



The game is really the dividing line between the first and the sequel; the mechanics and overall game of KotOR is much better than the sequel, but the story and ideas presented in KotOR II are so unusual and unique for a Star Wars game I can't help but feel it as vastly superior--Kreia being one of the biggest reasons.  It feels unfinished, however, which is a shame.

Without giving too much away.


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## The810kid (Dec 16, 2011)

The Final fantasy series have had some bad representations of women for fanservice but some have been positive portrayal of women especially in IX. Freya was a high ranking dragon knight Beatrix general of an entire kingdom most valued soldier.


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## Fi (Dec 17, 2011)

Kakashi234 said:


> Im Surprised of no mention of Lady in from Devil May Cry?(My favorite Female character of all time)
> 
> She is the only human to fight against Dante and walk out alive. Although Dante was just playing around with her. She should of got a bigger role in DMC4.



"or some skankified "badass"?"


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## -Dargor- (Dec 18, 2011)

Since when do you have to be either fat, ugly, flat chested or dressed like a nun to be a positive portrayal of women?

>_>


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## Matta Clatta (Dec 18, 2011)

I been playing Fallout forgot all about Sentinal lyons


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## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 18, 2011)

The women in duke nukem.


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## SoraOVO (Dec 18, 2011)

Easily the best female lead in a long time.


----------



## Rios (Dec 18, 2011)

I loved it when Kreia asked me "Are you usually that unstable?" when I killed a random innocent person in KOTOR 2. She knows whats up.


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## Buskuv (Dec 18, 2011)

-Dargor- said:


> Since when do you have to be either fat, ugly, flat chested or dressed like a nun to be a positive portrayal of women?
> 
> >_>



I'm pretty sure no one is stupid enough to believe that.

However, it's going to raise a few eyebrows when every female in games, lead or not, is a buxom, white waif usually dressed in at least for fitting clothes, if not pointlessly revealing armor or clothing.


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## Krory (Dec 18, 2011)

SoraOVO said:


> Easily the best female lead in a long time.



Oh-ho-ho.

You're funny.


----------



## Zaelapolopollo (Dec 18, 2011)

Ya know, Aerith wasn't too bad.


The outfit is downright conservative by Japanese standards. Her personality is rather normal too. She's spunky but not too spunky. She understands her destiny and what she has to do. She's neither overly in-your-face or timid.

I don't really like her but I don't see anything really wrong with her.


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## Sephiroth (Dec 18, 2011)

I liked her alot in Crisis Core.

Aerith and Zack make a good couple.


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## Axl Low (Jan 27, 2012)

Sephiroth said:


> I liked her alot in Crisis Core.
> 
> Aerith and Zack make a good couple.



NEW CAN OF WORMS OPENED
The Cloud and Aerith fans are swarming in the blackness D:
-----

Celes was boss in FF6
Plus she had the best tear jerker moment of ANY Final Fantasy

AND NO
Lulu not getting naked by the end of the game is not a reason to cry  

Lyn/dis from Fire Emblem / FE: Blazing Sword
Independent strong kind friendly killing machine 

Princess Peach in Super Princess Peach is such a BAMF 
But her main abilities are due to her emotions :/


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## Zen-aku (Jan 27, 2012)

Gaawa-chan said:


> Sadly not many, though they are arguably better represented than Muslims, for example. >_>



Altair
the Prince of Persia
Marik from Deus Ex
Jun from Halo Reach

Not all that bad actualy

*On Topic*

Bayonetta.


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## Krory (Jan 27, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> Altair
> the Prince of Persia
> Marik from Deus Ex
> Jun from Halo Reach
> ...



.


----------



## Esura (Jan 27, 2012)

I'm going to have to say Lightning from FFXIII.


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## Suigetsu (Jan 27, 2012)

Sephiroth said:


> I liked her alot in Crisis Core.
> 
> Aerith and Zack make a good couple.



bwahahaha yeah right.... a teenage guy that discovered hormones and hits on every single girl that he thinks looks pretty.

Yeah Aerith was a good lead char on VIII but lighting? I mean LIGHTING?! 
She has no character development nor anything like that, she is just eye candy. Eye candy that talks.

Aya Brea from PE1.


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## Matta Clatta (Jan 27, 2012)

What's wrong with Lightning? Granted I have never played a FF game ever but I only ever hear problems about how aggressive she is.


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## Krory (Jan 27, 2012)

>Tirade on why Lightning is a bad character
>Someone asks "WHY 4 U THINK BAD CHARUCTER?!"


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## Axl Low (Jan 29, 2012)

Bayonetta is column a and column b for this topic

She does get motherly and she does grow up a little however when compared to her character development ...like 80% of the time she is a badass flirtatious witch O:

She has a positive motherly quality but that isn't the first thing in people's minds


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## Suigetsu (Jan 29, 2012)

Matta Clatta said:


> What's wrong with Lightning? Granted I have never played a FF game ever but I only ever hear problems about how aggressive she is.



It's just talking eye candy...  Biggest dissapointment ever. I mean her design it's amazing, her voice actress ROCKS but the actual character... well there just isn't any.
Same reasons for Fang, even tough she was written as a male and had a more personality.
Cammy from Canon spike!


----------



## Naruto (Jan 29, 2012)

Suigetsu said:


> Yeah Aerith was a good lead char on VIII



Aerith is:


Helpless
Introverted
Submissive
Not from FF8

And even though she eventually turns out to be fairly powerful, she's still a healer, in case the male audience was getting a little intimidated


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## Jon Snow (Jan 29, 2012)

Meryl Silverburgh


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## Krory (Jan 29, 2012)

I don't know about MGS4, but definitely not MGS1. I don't think needing to be saved by Snake at every turn and the only two memorable scenes involve her being in her underwear makes her a "positive portrayal."

If anything it makes her a "typical, unsurprising portrayal."


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## ExoSkel (Jan 29, 2012)

Chell from Portal.

She's like the female version of Gordon Freeman.


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## Esura (Jan 29, 2012)

Krory said:


> I don't know about MGS4, but definitely not MGS1. I don't think needing to be saved by Snake at every turn and the only two memorable scenes involve her being in her underwear makes her a "positive portrayal."
> 
> If anything it makes her a "typical, unsurprising portrayal."



I never played MGS1 so I didn't know she was like that in there but Meryl was pretty badass in MGS4. She even had her own crew. They kind of undermine her badassery later in the game though with that wannabe Mr. & Mrs. Smith scene with Johnny.


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## Krory (Jan 29, 2012)

So, as I said...

No.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Jan 29, 2012)

Ashe from FFXII was a pretty nice character. She's just held back by JRPG character designs.


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## Krory (Jan 29, 2012)

Zaelapolopollo said:


> Ashe from FFXII was a pretty nice character. She's just held back by JRPG character designs.



Agreed, perhaps the only sensible main-FF female character.


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## mystictrunks (Jan 29, 2012)

Naruto said:


> Aerith is:
> 
> 
> Helpless
> ...



So was Coud, and about half the main cast in the game. Aeris and Cloud both end up accepting their shortcomings and doing what they can to save the world. Aeris just does this much earlier. Both end up needing to be saved or rescued, multiple times. 

Dang, most people in this thread can't believe a character who is overtly sexual, Bayonetta, can be a positive portrayal of women. 

Every character in this thread has flaws from ones like female Shepard, writing a man with boobs, to Alyx Vance, damsel in distress half the time. Saying that getting saved by men makes them not a positive portrayal is also overly simplifying things Getting captured and saved is one of the oldest tropes in gaming whether the character is male or female.


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## Matta Clatta (Jan 29, 2012)

Bayonetta spends most of her time saving a man over and over again and when she is saved its by another woman. This is a subversion of the damsel in distress trope. Its not like other games don't do this though......
Shes sexualized but also a bit of a misnomer because shes doing it to fuck with people.


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## Krory (Jan 29, 2012)

Bayonetta shouldn't be sexy, though, because naked Bayonetta makes Hideki Kamiya cry.


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## Jon Snow (Jan 29, 2012)

The Boss

/thread


----------



## Krory (Jan 29, 2012)

Jon Snow said:


> The Boss
> 
> /thread



Yeah, welcome to Page 1.


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## Jon Snow (Jan 29, 2012)

Haven't read that shit in ages

Olga Gurlokovich


----------



## Overwatch (Jan 29, 2012)

Alyx Vance. She knows how to handle herself and she acts like a fucking human being. The same can be said about Farah from PoP: The Sands of Time.


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## Esura (Jan 29, 2012)

Jon Snow said:


> Haven't read that shit in ages
> 
> Olga Gurlokovich



I believe she has already been said as well.

Most of the MGS women been covered already.


----------



## Gnome (Jan 29, 2012)

The bitches with the big titties, best kind.


----------



## Krory (Jan 29, 2012)

Tig ole bitties.


----------



## Gnome (Jan 29, 2012)

Yep. How could you get more positive than that? I know its a plus for me. And it also spreads a health conscious message.


----------



## Krory (Jan 29, 2012)

liek tifa lockhart iz liek da bestestest caracter cuz seh haz tig ole bitties n seh iz so youneek


----------



## Gnome (Jan 29, 2012)

If you don't mind your titties looking more like big cancerous tumors, sure.


----------



## Esura (Jan 29, 2012)

Titties make the world go round.

I think I would kill myself if I was stuck in a world with only men. I need titties.


----------



## Gnome (Jan 29, 2012)

Esura said:


> Titties make the world go round.



Did you fail science by any chance?


----------



## Esura (Jan 29, 2012)

Nope, its my best subject actually. That and history.


----------



## Kunoichiwa (Jan 29, 2012)

Chell from portal?
In the first game she looks crazy and certainly isn't sexualized since you hardly see her. She wears a jumpsuit so she isn't overly sexualized with her outfits either.

Chell never talks in the first game and in the second game it is implied she might be mute, so she isn't much of a role modal personality wise. Well, it is implied the reason she did well in GLaDOS's tests is because she never gives up, and that is a positive personality trait.

Actually there isn't enough of Chell for her to be a good role model but there isn't enough for her to be a bad one either.


----------



## Krory (Jan 29, 2012)

No one said anything about being a positive role model...


----------



## Krory (Jan 29, 2012)

SPOILERS, DUDE.


----------



## Gnome (Jan 29, 2012)

You've had 5 years to beat Portal 1.


----------



## Krory (Jan 29, 2012)

You've had five years to fuck a pie.


----------



## Esura (Jan 29, 2012)

Yeah...I'm with Gnome on that one. Shit is old, get the fuck over it.

Been discussed by every fucking message board in and out already.


----------



## Gnome (Jan 29, 2012)

Krory said:


> You've had five years to fuck a pie.



And I've been there and done that, I'm on the move man.


----------



## Krory (Jan 29, 2012)

As usual, everything goes over Esua's head.

@Gnome - Fuck you, no toast.


----------



## Gnome (Jan 29, 2012)

I'll make my own Toast, you'll see, YOU'LL ALL SEE.


----------



## Esura (Jan 29, 2012)

And Kory's mouth is always on my head.


----------



## Krory (Jan 29, 2012)

...damn. Gnome caught on.

@Esua - Like the air-nozzle on a life raft?


----------



## HighLevelPlayer (Apr 4, 2012)

Amanda from MGS: Peace Walker.


----------



## Semiotic Sacrilege (Apr 5, 2012)

-The Boss.
-Faith


----------



## Zaelapolopollo (Apr 5, 2012)

Xelha from Baten Kaitos maybe.


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## Fenix (Apr 5, 2012)

Can't people just accept that the gaming community is too immature and close minded to talk about anything related to females


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## Akira Kurusu (Apr 5, 2012)

Palutena.


----------

