# Sasuke's Worthless Susanno cuts the God Tree



## IDontHateYou (Sep 17, 2013)

I just have to rub this in. As a sasuke fan, I've learned to endure.

A week ago, people said that Sasuke wouldn't be able to do jack shit against the God Tree without a serious upgrade.

Link removed

A week later Sasuke just chopped the God Tree in half with his "leggy" Susanno. 

Go ahead. Keep underestimating the sauce. It will only backfire in the end


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## Sifus (Sep 17, 2013)

All hail Lord Sasuke.

Naruto gets solod by branches while Sasuke cuts them.


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## Meat (Sep 17, 2013)

I don't understand. He just cut only a part of the tree. Sarutobi can do it with ease with just a stick. So Saru attacking with a stick > Sasuke attacking with susano'o?


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## PopoTime (Sep 17, 2013)

Hiruzen did the same thing without using Itachi's Eyes.

God of Shinobi > Sasuke


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## Panther (Sep 17, 2013)

And the only reason he accomplished that is because of Naruto's chakra cloack which makes his jutsu's more than 3x powerfull 

he should thank Naruto since it turned his worthless Susanoo into a usefull Susanoo :ho


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## Bruce Wayne (Sep 17, 2013)

Sifus said:


> All hail Lord Sasuke.
> 
> Naruto gets solod by branches while Sasuke cuts them.



Yet who's the one that has country+ power.


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## Sifus (Sep 17, 2013)

The branches Hiruzen destroyed are puny compared to what Sasuke's Susano'o just cut through.


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Sep 17, 2013)

Meat said:


> I don't understand. He just cut only a part of the tree. Sarutobi can do it with ease with just a stick. So Saru attacking with a stick > Sasuke attacking with susano'o?





PopoTime said:


> Hiruzen did the same thing without using Itachi's Eyes.
> 
> God of Shinobi > Sasuke



You guys might want to look at the size difference between the branches that Hiruzen and Sasuke, respectively, cut. 

Hiruzen:


*Spoiler*: __ 









Sasuke:



There's an enormous difference. 

Why am I defending the Sauce?


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## John Connor (Sep 17, 2013)

obviously Sasuke is going to use Naruto's chakra to unlock full Susano or even the spiral version of Rinnegan the older son had


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## Rokudaime (Sep 17, 2013)

IDontHateYou said:


> I just have to rub this in. As a sasuke fan, I've learned to endure.
> 
> *A week ago, people said that Sasuke wouldn't be able to do jack shit against the God Tree without a serious upgrade.*
> 
> ...



Naruto's Chakra Kyubi Cloak?


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## crystalblade13 (Sep 17, 2013)

he destroyed way more than hiruzen, but no way did he cut the tree in half, lol. No where close.


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## The Faceless Man (Sep 17, 2013)

IDontHateYou said:


> I just have to rub this in. As a sasuke fan, I've learned to endure.
> 
> A week ago, people said that Sasuke wouldn't be able to do jack shit against the God Tree without a serious upgrade.
> 
> ...



dat naruto chakra cloak , the boost of that made him cut the tree like butter


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## Yuna (Sep 17, 2013)

It's pretty obvious the God Tree isn't constantly actively absorbing any Chakra that comes into contact with it. Tobirama cut through it using Suiton, Sarutobi cut through it using Enma, who is living being (!!!). Neither time did the tree absorb any of their Chakra or even react to being cut.

Sasuke did what everyone in the world is capable of: Cutting through the God Tree when the God Tree's guard is down.


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## Addy (Sep 17, 2013)

the tree is actually moving and two pages ago, obito said he will obsorb more chakra........ and yet it cut it down


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## Bahamut Slayer (Sep 17, 2013)

IDontHateYou said:


> A week later Sasuke just chopped the God Tree in half with his "leggy" Susanno.
> 
> Go ahead. Keep underestimating the sauce. It will only backfire in the end



Well technically all he did was cut a tip of a tree root, not 'chop the God Tree' in half. Kidding aside, I never underestimated Sasuke. Just because I'm not a fan of him, doesn't mean I'm blind to his abilities. Surely there's more to Sasuke anyways. 

Next week, Sasuke uses gigantic Susanoo Enton sword.

I wouldn't be surprised if Naruto's Bijuudama and Sasuke's flame sword combine and fly towards the tree just like Madara did.


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## Glutamminajr (Sep 17, 2013)

Well,I'm happy for you but I don't think that cutting through a branch that was just stay still and doing nothing is a great accomplishment for Sasuke.If I were you I'd waiting for something bigger...frankly the whole thing would have been more worth praising if the tree was still trying to suck chakra and was surrounding Sasuke but he was cutting that tree regardless.
And frankly Sarutobi and Tobirama already cut that thing when it was not moving(in Sarutobi's case) or when it was just focusing his attacks on other people(in Tobirama's case)so...


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## John Connor (Sep 17, 2013)

the tree is always absorbing its just that chakra blades are too fast

Sasuke might have to recharge his sword after every cut and Enma might get tired from touching the tree for an extended amount of time


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## Krippy (Sep 17, 2013)

He's done the most against the god tree so far


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## rac585 (Sep 17, 2013)

sasuke better thank naruto for all these feats after it's over. :ho


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## Sifus (Sep 17, 2013)

Lol. People implying EMS can't make Sasuke's Susano'o grow legs.


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## PainHyuuga (Sep 17, 2013)

people are just trying to discredit sasuke on this one.
it was a great feat, look at the sheer size of that tree branch... easily the most damaged done in 1 normal blow.

i dont buy the whole cloak thing giving user x3 power boast, else Hashirama would be solo'ing madara and obito.


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## navy (Sep 17, 2013)

The tree is cuttable and regenerates. What the hell did Sasuke prove here by cutting it? We already saw it cut last week.


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## The Faceless Man (Sep 17, 2013)

PainHyuuga said:


> people are just trying to discredit sasuke on this one.
> it was a great feat, look at the sheer size of that tree branch... easily the most damaged done in 1 normal blow.
> 
> *i dont buy the whole cloak thing giving user x3 power boast*, else Hashirama would be solo'ing madara and obito.



well kakashi says that and shikamaru's dad , and that was unrefined chakra of the kyuubi


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## Zelavour (Sep 17, 2013)

Sifus said:


> Lol. People implying EMS can't make Sasuke's Susano'o grow legs.



Sure EMS may have made Susano gain legs but that doesnt matter, because without Kyuubi's chakra cloak Sasuke wouldnt have cut the tree root at all, atleast i dont think so...

Remember that the Kyuubi chakra cloak makes everything more stronger/powerful? So Sasuke's Susano is stronger BECAUSE of Kyuubi's chakra cloak, hence the reason why he was able to cut through it.

The legs are EMS's cause (or maybe also Kyuubi's chakra, but we wont know unless Sasuke states otherwise).


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## Sifus (Sep 17, 2013)

^
Dude. Sasuke's Susano'o cut through a wall made by Juubi fodder when he was untop of Aoda and he also cut those tough spider webs against Kabuto.

People need to stop downplaying Sasuke


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## ShadowReij (Sep 17, 2013)

That's gonna make one hell of a christmas tree when all is said and done.


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## Mariko (Sep 17, 2013)

It was just fanservice. No more. Sasuke had to do something and kishi made him cut a root. 

It's the minimum. If Saske couldn't cut a f*cking root with its EMS power, he would has been totaly useless and the sharingan would has been severly downgraded.

Caution, Itachi wank:


*Spoiler*: __ 



There where Itachi would has Totsuka'd the whole tree and end all this shit, sauce just cuted a root.


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## Sifus (Sep 17, 2013)

To back up my response to Zelavour:





Sasuke's Susano'o could have sliced through that root without Kurama chakra.


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## NarutoShion4ever (Sep 17, 2013)

Sifus said:


> To back up my response to Zelavour:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Because a big ass root from Shinju has the same resistance as some spider-webs and some tiny Juubi-clone creature. 

Look...that Kyuubi cloak does provide Sasuke with a power-boost...there's no way around that. Maybe Sasuke's Enton Sword would have gotten stuck halfway inside that root without the cloak? But the chakra cloak didn't give Sasuke his cutting abilities...that's what the EMS gave him.

I'm not much of a fan of Sasuke (the way that Kishimoto writes him), but even I'm annoyed that the EMS hasn't been given any feats. Kishimoto didn't have to give Sasuke that chakra cloak (although it probably made the mass hiraishin easier to perform) but he did.

On the other hand, maybe Kishimoto will finally explain what the deal is with Susanoo. Is it creating Form from Imagination? Something else?


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## Mateush (Sep 17, 2013)

It's nothing compared to RS :ignoramus


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## motto (Sep 17, 2013)

Lol @ cutting it in half!!


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## ShadowReij (Sep 17, 2013)

^^He just needs a giant enton chainsaw.


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## erekose200 (Sep 17, 2013)

First of all, Sasuke was powered up by Naruto. Second of all, is chopping wood in half such a feat now?


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## ShadowReij (Sep 17, 2013)

erekose200 said:


> First of all, Sasuke was powered up by Naruto. Second of all, is chopping wood in half such a feat now?



The first portion is assuming he couldn't get Susanoo to take that form without it, don't see why not as Madara could. As for the second well....given how wood is such an appparently strong power in this manga I guess so......even though as everyone has said the Shinju has been cut before already Sasuke just cut a bigger piece. So I'm not sure what the haters nor the tards are going nuts about.


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## IDontHateYou (Sep 17, 2013)

yea yea... but my is sasuke is getting spotlight again.


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## PopoTime (Sep 17, 2013)

ShadowReij said:


> The first portion is assuming he couldn't get Susanoo to take that form without it, don't see why not as Madara could. As for the second well....given how wood is such an appparently strong power in this manga I guess so......even though as everyone has said the Shinju has been cut before already Sasuke just cut a bigger piece. So I'm not sure what the haters nor the tards are going nuts about.



Madara also had a gigantic chakra tank, Sasuke doesnt.

The fact is Sasuke was powered by the Kurama cloak, which is proven to be a Damage - multiplier to any technique used with it.

Most Sasuke tards here seem to insist that this was all Sasuke, despite the panel before clearly showing him with a Kurama cloak.

In that case, i guess Kakashi can casually warp Bijuu's by himself then


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## ShadowReij (Sep 17, 2013)

PopoTime said:


> *Madara also had a gigantic chakra tank, Sasuke doesnt.*
> 
> The fact is Sasuke was powered by the Kurama cloak, which is proven to be a Damage - multiplier to any technique used with it.
> 
> ...



You know there is a reason they are constantly being compared to right? And that chakra bit is one of the reasons. I'm just saying don't be surprised when he does it without the cloak, or do you honestly think Naruto's going to let him keep it when they fight?


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## PopoTime (Sep 17, 2013)

ShadowReij said:


> You know there is a reason they are constantly being compared to right? And that chakra bit is one of the reasons. I'm just saying don't be surprised when he does it without the cloak, or do you honestly think Naruto's going to let him keep it when they fight?



The way i see it, PS to the scale of Madara vs Gokage is impossible unless Sasuke becomes an Edo Tensei, or aquires infinite chakra to stabilise it.

PS to the scale of Madara vs Hashirama (Kyuubi sized)  is a stretch, but sasuke would still need an asspull chakra power up to achieve it for prolonged periods.

So the honest best i can see Sasuke achiving is a PS the size of the 5 susan'oo clones that fought the Gokage, or a Kyuubi sized PS that can only be used in short bursts.




Furthermore, the fact is, Sasuke has NO chakra endurance feats to speak of, except for fighting the Gokage up to Mei, where he would have been defeated if not for Zetsu refilling his chakra tank.

He's not like Naruto, whos stamina and Large chakra tank is enhanced  by Kurama, "all" Sasuke has is a pair of Hax eyes, that so far, have been shown nothing other than removing the blindness weakness of MS and opens the door to some form of PS to be achieved


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## warp drive (Sep 17, 2013)

navy said:


> The tree is cuttable and regenerates. What the hell did Sasuke prove here by cutting it? We already saw it cut last week.


Naruto go soloed by smaller branches while Sasuke demolish branches the size 50x time thickers than the one Naruto got soloed by. :risu


Ultimate Bijuu said:


> well kakashi says that and shikamaru's dad , and that was unrefined chakra of the kyuubi


Okay so why was Naruto dyeing if Kurama's power is that significant? Does not Naruto wield Kurama itself? And lets not fool ourselves here Kurama =/= Naruto!


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## Jad (Sep 17, 2013)

How can you underestimate perhaps the second main character in a manga who is being geared in a rivalry with the second strongest Shinobi alive ?

That's like underestimating the chances that Yellow and Blue won't make Green...

Edit: Yes I corrected myself...


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## ShadowReij (Sep 17, 2013)

PopoTime said:


> The way i see it, PS to the scale of Madara vs Gokage is impossible unless Sasuke becomes an Edo Tensei, or aquires infinite chakra to stabilise it.
> 
> PS to the scale of Madara vs Hashirama (Kyuubi sized)  is a stretch, but sasuke would still need an asspull chakra power up to achieve it for prolonged periods.
> 
> So the honest best i can see Sasuke achiving is a PS the size of the 5 susan'oo clones that fought the Gokage, or a Kyuubi sized PS that can only be used in short bursts.



So this is a case of you not thinking he can do it even though he will.



> Furthermore, the fact is, Sasuke has NO chakra endurance feats to speak of, except for fighting the Gokage up to Mei, where he would have been defeated if not for Zetsu refilling his chakra tank.



So you claim he has no  endurance feats yet recognize an endurance feat but just choose to put in the oh but that was just a special case. Alright.



> *He's not like Naruto*, whos stamina and Large chakra tank is enhanced  by Kurama, "all" Sasuke has is a pair of Hax eyes, that so far, have been shown nothing other than removing the blindness weakness of MS and opens the door to some form of PS to be achieved



Ding ding ding, you've hit the nail on the head, he's not like Naruto. However that doesn't mean Sasuke isn't a tank of his right, otherwise he wouldn't be able to spam MS jutsu which are known to take alot of chakra like nothing.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Sep 17, 2013)

As much as I'd like to say Sasuke's feat is Sasuke's pure, unassisted feat... it is quite hard to ignore the chakra shroud around him. This shroud which should provide a greater boost than what Kakashi received as its from 100% Kurama.

Though, imo, I think Sasuke can use such a Susanoo on his own... But that may have something to do with perfect Susanoo being a EMS jutsu.


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## Csdabest (Sep 17, 2013)

It gave Sasuke more Chakra. Not make his jutsu stronger. And Even then im sure Stage  Susano-o requires much more chakra than some basic susano-o


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## Jeαnne (Sep 17, 2013)

thats why its better to sit and watch


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Sep 17, 2013)

Csdabest said:


> It gave Sasuke more Chakra. Not make his jutsu stronger. And Even then im sure Stage  Susano-o requires much more chakra than some basic susano-o



We clearly saw the alliance mention how their jutsu for more powerful with Naruto's chakra. Furthermore how it made them faster and stronger.


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## ChickenPotPie (Sep 17, 2013)

OMG SASUKE IS CHEATING USING KYUUBI CHAKRA UNLIKE NARUTO


oh wait


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## Hamaru (Sep 17, 2013)

Sasuke with Kyuubi/Naruto's chakra did good. Tobirama did the same thing with water though.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 17, 2013)

Dat tree branch was almost as thick as Itachi's dick.


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## BlinkST (Sep 17, 2013)

Dat lil bro


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## Pirao (Sep 17, 2013)

Sasuke with Naruto's power, you mean?


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## B.o.t.i (Sep 17, 2013)

Yeah powered by naruto


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 17, 2013)

Sasuke only did the feat in the first place after Naruto had powered him up. His Susano'o is about five times larger than normal and finally gained legs, something it _explicitly lacked_ before Naruto gave him the chakra. Not to say it isn't impressive, the sheer size of the root being cut through is a good feat. But Sasuke didn't do it on his own at all, he had Naruto's power backing him up.


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## Jikayaki (Sep 17, 2013)

Regular jutsu can cut the Shinju's branches its recovery and over whelming number of chakra sucking branches are the issue with the Tree. Its Obito that Sasuke is completely useless against. With the Tree its more realistic to say he should be over whelmed should it attack like before.


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## IDontHateYou (Sep 17, 2013)

The point is this though:

People were acting like Sasuke with his EMS would be completely irrelevant to the storyline because Naruto >>>> EMS Sasuke. 

Within one chapter that has been proven false. Sasuke's EMS keeps being shown, time and time again.  

Maybe he will get a power up, maybe he wont.  (Probably he will though)

But... the sauce will always be relevant to this storyline. EMS, Rennigan, Sage powers, is not what makes the sauce, the sauce.



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Sasuke only did the feat in the first place after Naruto had powered him up. His Susano'o is about five times larger than normal and finally gained legs, something it _explicitly lacked_ before Naruto gave him the chakra. Not to say it isn't impressive, the sheer size of the root being cut through is a good feat. But Sasuke didn't do it on his own at all, he had Naruto's power backing him up.


 
Though you MAY be right, we cant be sure. Perhaps this is just Sasuke strutting new stuff. But 5 Times as large is really a stretch. Its almost impossible based on image to tell "how much" his susanno has grown.  Even if it has gotten bigger, not by very much. 

So what if Naruto powered Sasuke, 
Even Hashirama is wearing a damn Kyuubi cloak. Does that mean all of Hashirama's attack with the cloak, you give Naruto credit for?

Even though sasuke, who has atleast much more chakra than most of the alliance, he has yet to be "sucked" by the tree. 

This is not an attack against Naruto, since he is the Kyuubi Jin and probably specifically targeted BUT Sasuke has still managed to avoid what has happen to most of the alliance.

Not like the Kyuubi cloak saved everyone. Kyuubi cloak was essentially worthless when the tree came out.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 17, 2013)

IDontHateYou, we've seen the before and after of Sasuke's Susano'o usage:

Before Naruto powers him up, his Susano'o lacks legs AND is the same size he could manifest during the Danzo Fight. After, his Susano'o is as big as Naruto's full Tailed Beast Mode and has manifested legs. The manga makes it quite clear that Sasuke, _at this point of the game_ couldn't do it on his own.


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## Jikayaki (Sep 17, 2013)

IDontHateYou said:


> The point is this though:
> 
> People were acting like Sasuke with his EMS would be completely irrelevant to the storyline because Naruto >>>> EMS Sasuke.
> 
> ...



Ultimately Sasuke is very close to irrelevant power wise, but not so much in direct power as if current Naruto is overwhelmingly ahead. Naruto's ahead, but that's not really what makes Sasuke near irrelevant in the current situation. The lack of senjutsu is what makes him irrelevant to an extent within the fight.


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## IDontHateYou (Sep 17, 2013)

Sasuke susanno is so garbage. Sure gets a hell of a lot of panel time for such a "garbage" jutsu.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 17, 2013)

Jikayaki said:


> Ultimately Sasuke is very close to irrelevant power wise, but not so much in direct power as if current Naruto is overwhelmingly ahead. Naruto's ahead, but that's not really what makes Sasuke near irrelevant in the current situation. The lack of senjutsu is what makes him irrelevant to an extent within the fight.


Not to mention even Naruto's pre-Biju Sage Mode Feats put Sasuke to shame. Defeating Five Biju at the same time, powering up the entire Alliance and saving them from Madara, Obito, and Shinju for a significant amount of time, equaling Edo Madara in combat (forcing Madara to get serious), protecting the Alliance from Tenpenchii, saving the Alliance from the quadruple Tailed Beast Ball, damaging Juubito...

Sasuke is lagging far, far behind and its only with _Naruto's power_ he's catching up IDontHateYou.



IDontHateYou said:


> Sasuke susanno is so garbage. Sure gets a hell of a lot of panel time for such a "garbage" jutsu.


Who said that? Sasuke's Susano'o is an incredibly strong technique, but its still lacking in power on its own compared to Naruto's Biju Mode, Madara's Susano'o, Minato's Biju Mode, and Hashirama's Mokuton: Mokujin no Jutsu/Senpo Mokuton: Shinsusenju.


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## IDontHateYou (Sep 17, 2013)

Jikayaki said:


> Ultimately Sasuke is very close to irrelevant power wise, but not so much in direct power as if current Naruto is overwhelmingly ahead. Naruto's ahead, but that's not really what makes Sasuke near irrelevant in the current situation. The lack of senjutsu is what makes him irrelevant to an extent within the fight.


 
I completely agree but I think you are jumping the gun here. The first isn't over yet


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## B.o.t.i (Sep 17, 2013)

IDontHateYou said:


> The point is this though:
> 
> People were acting like Sasuke with his EMS would be completely irrelevant to the storyline because Naruto >>>> EMS Sasuke.
> 
> ...



what are you rambling about your lot where making fanfics about powerups that everyone declined.Everyone was like sasuke will do something he is side fodder allaince afterall.As soon as naruto gave him kyuubi chakra he could heelp we all knew that was sasuke's power up.

And even now some of you still rambling what is wrong with you lot.


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## IDontHateYou (Sep 17, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Not to mention even Naruto's pre-Biju Sage Mode Feats put Sasuke to shame. Defeating Five Biju at the same time, powering up the entire Alliance and saving them from Madara, Obito, and Shinju for a significant amount of time, equaling Edo Madara in combat (forcing Madara to get serious), protecting the Alliance from Tenpenchii, saving the Alliance from the quadruple Tailed Beast Ball, damaging Juubito...
> 
> Sasuke is lagging far, far behind and its only with _Naruto's power_ he's catching up IDontHateYou.


 
Well... I hear you bro, but I'll put it like this:

When Naruto and Sasuke fight, Naruto will have a tough time on his hand.  Whatever gap exist, will be fixed.  As I recall, in the beginning of part 2, Sasuke was miles ahead of Naruto.  The same way that Naruto is set to surpass Hashirama, is the same way Sasuke is set to surpass Madara.  Hashirama is stronger than Madara but, they are still in the "same" ballpark.


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Sep 17, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> IDontHateYou, we've seen the before and after of Sasuke's Susano'o usage:
> 
> Before Naruto powers him up, his Susano'o lacks legs AND is the same size he could manifest during the Danzo Fight. After, his Susano'o is as big as Naruto's full Tailed Beast Mode and has manifested legs. The manga makes it quite clear that Sasuke, _at this point of the game_ couldn't do it on his own.



Just because he didn't use the legged version at that time doesn't mean he was incapable of doing so. 

Madara didn't use his legged version at first either. He used one similar to the one Sasuke used against Danzo, which was the stage 3 version, except with no legs.



The legged version simply provides more maneuverability allowing susanoo to jump and move around rather than be stationary constantly. Sasuke didn't need such an ability at the time he used susanoo here.



He did on the other hand need such an ability this chapter. 

He also hasn't used his final susanoo in this fight, so is he incapable of using it? No. More chakra isn't going to suddenly grant susanoo legs. If the chakra did anything, then it was increase the power behind the slash, not give it legs.


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## IDontHateYou (Sep 17, 2013)

You gotta realize this, if Kishi wants an EMS Sasuke to match Naruto, he will make that happen regardless of how far ahead naruto appears to be.


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## ZiBi21 (Sep 17, 2013)

oi its "sasuke + juugo + narutos chakra" that cut the tree..... since behind sasuke under susano cloak we see juugo.... both have naruto chakra on themselfs too... so sasuke is doing this legged susano in cooperation not alone


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## PopoTime (Sep 17, 2013)

ShadowReij said:


> So this is a case of you not thinking he can do it even though he will.



Does being an Uchiha fan grant you clairvoyance?



> So you claim he has no  endurance feats yet recognize an endurance feat but just choose to put in the oh but that was just a special case. Alright.



Erm no i didnt?

I said, he has no endurance feats EXCEPT reaching Mei, as in, he has no endurance feats EXCEPT 1. 

If your basing the size of Sasuke's chakra tank off off that endurance feat then you agree that his tank is not that big (exhausted once he reached Mei)




> Ding ding ding, you've hit the nail on the head, he's not like Naruto. However that doesn't mean Sasuke isn't a tank of his right, otherwise he wouldn't be able to spam MS jutsu which are known to take alot of chakra like nothing.



Erm, its actually the opposite, the only negative effects we've seen of Amaterasu is the effect on the users eyes, EMS negates this.


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## B.o.t.i (Sep 17, 2013)

IDontHateYou said:


> You gotta realize this, if Kishi wants an EMS Sasuke to match Naruto, he will make that happen regardless of how far ahead naruto appears to be.



jeez  you just dont stop.Even your fellow clansman have stopped denying  themselves.Why is sasuke living of naruto's power up.All his previous attacks whre fail now he cuts a branch he's the shit??  Just be cool about things you will only start crying later on.


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## IDontHateYou (Sep 17, 2013)

B.o.t.i said:


> what are you rambling about your lot where making fanfics about powerups that everyone declined.Everyone was like sasuke will do something he is side fodder allaince afterall.As soon as naruto gave him kyuubi chakra he could heelp we all knew that was sasuke's power up.
> 
> And even now some of you still rambling what is wrong with you lot.


 
LMFAO

Wait a minute, are you Kishimoto? Maybe, not like I actually have a way of knowing.  Guess he could have an English translator with him, or maybe he even speaks English

Because if your not Kishi YOU CANT DECLINE ANYTHING BECAUSE YOU DO NOT WRITE THE MANGA. 

You cant say something as sensible as a sasuke powerup is "DECLINED" because you don't like the idea.  

You are waiting for every chapter, same way I am.  You're sitting here as if you have some exclusive kishimoto source that nobody else has. R U SERIOUS?


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## Jikayaki (Sep 17, 2013)

IDontHateYou said:


> I completely agree but I think you are jumping the gun here. The first isn't over yet



The fight isn't over, but what makes Sasuke partly irrelevant within the overall fight isn't likely to change. It's still going to take a collective effort to cut down the Shinju without Sasuke or Naruto getting defeated by the branches. Both likely will get a power up very soon, but it won't make up the difference and it won't make Sasuke relevant power wise against Obito.


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## Jagger (Sep 17, 2013)

Sifus said:


> Lol. People implying EMS can't make Sasuke's Susano'o grow legs.


No one said that, it's just that Sasuke's power up of this week was due the Naruto's chakra that was given to him.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 17, 2013)

Jagger said:


> No one said that, it's just that Sasuke's power up of this week was due the Naruto's chakra that was given to him.


Exactly. Its like how Hinata's Hakke Kusho could send a Shinju Tail flying back all the way across the battlefield once gaining Naruto's chakra.


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## Tony Lou (Sep 17, 2013)

B.o.t.i said:


> jeez  you just dont stop.Even your fellow clansman have stopped denying  themselves.WHy is asuek living of naruto's power up.ALl his previous atatcks where fail now he cust a branch he's teh shit??  Just be cool about things you will only start crying later on.



I don't know about these previous attacks you speak of. This was the first time he attacked the godtree.

You have no examples to show that he would've been unable in a different moment.


----------



## B.o.t.i (Sep 17, 2013)

Luiz said:


> I don't know about these previous attacks you speak of. This was the first time he attacked the godtree.
> 
> You have no examples to show that he would've been unable in a different moment.



You do know the tree is linke to obito.And I dont know his best attacks ems+amaratsu,arrow failing against obito and juubi.Also within the combat he got relegated to useless against obito.

Once he got narutos chakra he can cut a tree and do soemthing.Of all things thsi is what you guys are hypingand trying to claim?? He's powered up by naruto tahst all tehre is too it just be happy he's doing soemthing dont make false claims liek the delusion of  sifus.

Facts are sasuke got a feature and feat because naruto powered him up.Why has this got to turn into a useless saga when facts already presented.


----------



## IDontHateYou (Sep 17, 2013)

Im tired of the "it was Naruto's chakra argument".

Cmon guys, Naruto is special just because he's a senju/uzumaki, the same way Sasuke is special because he is a Uchia.  

I like Naruto but people act as if the Kyuubi was some power that Naruto created.  Naruto is "using" the Kyuubi's power the same way everyone else is.

This will not be liked, but I don't care who likes it:

If you were to take the Kyuubi out of Naruto and leave him with only his Senju/Uzumaki DNA....EMS Sasuke would own him. 

Naruto learned to control Kyuubi because of his good heart and all, that's great but, the Kyuubi has saved Naruto's ass a million times over, back when the Kyuubi was an evil bastard. 

Naruto didn't defeat Pain. The damn Kyuubi did.  Pain had Sage Mode Naruto nailed to the damn floor until the "Kyuubi" went on a rampage.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 17, 2013)

...its blatant you're just ignoring that Naruto powered Sasuke up IDontHateYou. He only did the feat in the first place due to Naruto's V1 Cloak around him. Its no different than Hinata deflecting a Jyubi Tail with a single Hakke Kusho after getting the same power up.


----------



## Kyuubi Naruto (Sep 17, 2013)

#ThanksNaruto


----------



## IDontHateYou (Sep 17, 2013)

Naruto has chakra comparable to Hashirama with the Kyuubi.

Hashirama has chakra comparable to Hashirama with NO KYUUBI needed.
There's a vast difference in power between hashirama and Naruto is take Kyuubi out of the equation. 

Which will never happen, I get it, but don't act like its Naruto's personal chakra. Its Kurama's chakra.  He is a SEPERATE ENTITY that happens to live in Naruto.  

Sure now that they're all lovey dovey they share chakra but.... Kurama was his own person at one point.

THIS IS NOT THE SAME AS SAYING, "TAKE SASUKE's SHARINGAN AWAY AND HE'LL BE TRASH" because, naruto having the Kyuubi is EXTRA.  Naruto already comes from a powerful heritage, just as Sasuke comes from one.  Naruto has Senju DNA + Kyuubi.  So of course he's stronger and has better chakra.  

Also, Sasuke's chakra reserve has increased massively since he gained EMS.  He has been spamming MS Jutsu (Which we know are very costly on chakra) with NO SIGNS of fatigue, unlike at the kage sumit. 

Point is: lets not compare Kage summit sasuke to current sasuke. They are on two different levels.


----------



## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Sep 17, 2013)

IDontHateYou said:


> Im tired of the "it was Naruto's chakra argument".
> 
> Cmon guys, Naruto is special just because he's a senju/uzumaki, the same way Sasuke is special because he is a Uchia.
> 
> ...



I'm not a Naruto fan or hater, but damn it, QFFT! Some of the Naruto fans on this site are as hypocritical as it can get. The Kyuubi is a separate entity from him. They may be connected via Naruto being a jinchuuriki, but they're two different beings. He's using its power just like the other shinobi are. If Kurama didn't want to share its chakra then Naruto would be flat out screwed yet they come in here and brag how Naruto does it all by himself. 

It really does get tiresome and annoying. 

P.S Not defending the Uchiha fans or the Uchiha in general. Just taking notice of the hypocritical tendencies that Naruto fans seem to gravitate towards.


----------



## IDontHateYou (Sep 17, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> ...its blatant you're just ignoring that Naruto powered Sasuke up IDontHateYou. He only did the feat in the first place due to Naruto's V1 Cloak around him. Its no different than Hinata deflecting a Jyubi Tail with a single Hakke Kusho after getting the same power up.


 
and your ignoring the fact that Sasuke will always be relevant to this war, Kyuubi cloak or not. He will continue to get more panel time than anyone else except naruto regardless of how meaningless you believe his power is to this fight. Mind you, the fight isn't over. Sasuke may play a much more important role. We don't know the future exactly.

Again, so what if he powered up Sasuke, hashirama is also powered up by Naruto. Does that mean all of Hashirama's feats with the cloak are naruto feats? No.. certainly not, because he is Hashirama... right?

and frankly, I see no evidence that Sasuke's susanno couldn't have done that before.  This is Sasuke's first time attacking the God Tree.  Do you have panels of Sasuke failing to be able to cut tree prior to being given Naruto's chakra? Nope.

Which means, there is room for speculation.


----------



## Jikayaki (Sep 17, 2013)

IDontHateYou said:


> and your ignoring the fact that Sasuke will always be relevant to this war, Kyuubi cloak or not. He will continue to get more panel time than anyone else except naruto regardless of how meaningless you believe his power is to this fight. Mind you, the fight isn't over. Sasuke may play a much more important role. We don't know the future exactly.
> 
> Again, so what if he powered up Sasuke, hashirama is also powered up by Naruto. Does that mean all of Hashirama's feats with the cloak are naruto feats? No.. certainly not, because he is Hashirama... right?
> 
> ...



Sasuke's more relevant role in regards to the war is already over. It ended after he was responsible largely for the Edo Hokages joining the war. His largest bit of relevancy in a long time now was pushing Naruto to move forward this chapter.

Largely you can place much of the credit for the capability of Sasuke's current and near future feats to Naruto and the chakra shroud for as long as it remains. Its a relative massive power up at least in regards to the fodder. With the Hashirama wood clone It's perhaps more relative as Hashirama is already at another league, but Sasuke isn't nearly on the same pedestal.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 17, 2013)

IDontHateYou said:


> Naruto has chakra comparable to Hashirama with the Kyuubi.
> 
> Hashirama has chakra comparable to Hashirama with NO KYUUBI needed.
> There's a vast difference in power between hashirama and Naruto is take Kyuubi out of the equation.
> ...


Hashirama actually said Naruto _alone_ has chakra comparable or equal to him, Kurama's made it much larger. 

EMS allows Sasuke to use his Mangekyo Techniques without cost, it doesn't mean his chakra levels increased. Not even close.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 17, 2013)

IDontHateYou said:


> and your ignoring the fact that Sasuke will always be relevant to this war, Kyuubi cloak or not. He will continue to get more panel time than anyone else except naruto regardless of how meaningless you believe his power is to this fight. Mind you, the fight isn't over. Sasuke may play a much more important role. We don't know the future exactly.
> 
> Again, so what if he powered up Sasuke, hashirama is also powered up by Naruto. Does that mean all of Hashirama's feats with the cloak are naruto feats? No.. certainly not, because he is Hashirama... right?
> 
> ...


Again, you ignore that _everyone gets a comparable boost from Naruto's chakra._ Hinata goes from barely able to deflect the Cutting Technique with her Hakke Kusho to _sending Jyubi tails across the battlefield._ Choji regains his fat reserves which are crucial for his chakra and restrain Jyubi Tails. Ino can take control of Obito without him being able to force her out and her mind transfer speed is faster than BM Naruto's speed thanks to Naruto's chakra. Shikamaru can restrain the Jyubi with a Kage Mane. Kakashi goes from having trouble with human targets with Kamui to being able to Kamui massive objects like Gyuki and even Jyubi itself.

All the powered up attacks are attributed to Naruto powering them up. Why are you saying 'Well Sasuke...its Sasuke! He isn't getting powered up!' And we've also seen when bloodlusted, his Susano'o wasn't on anywhere near the level it is now without Naruto's chakra.



The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> I'm not a Naruto fan or hater, but damn it, QFFT! Some of the Naruto fans on this site are as hypocritical as it can get. The Kyuubi is a separate entity from him. They may be connected via Naruto being a jinchuuriki, but they're two different beings. He's using its power just like the other shinobi are. If Kurama didn't want to share its chakra then Naruto would be flat out screwed yet they come in here and brag how Naruto does it all by himself.
> 
> It really does get tiresome and annoying.
> 
> P.S Not defending the Uchiha fans or the Uchiha in general. Just taking notice of the hypocritical tendencies that Naruto fans seem to gravitate towards.


...except, when Naruto mastered Kurama and his power, the power _became his._ Even Kurama said Naruto is superior with the chakra transfer than he is. 'Take away Kurama and Naruto'd be screwed'. Take away Sasuke's eyes and he'd be screwed. Take away Hashirama's Mokuton and he'd be screwed. 

This whole argument 'Its only due to Kurama Naruto is this good' is a fallacy of Naruto haters who don't want to give him any credit. Just like how the OP isn't want to giving any credit to Naruto for Sasuke's current Biju Mode sized Susano'o.


----------



## Csdabest (Sep 17, 2013)

Thank you Naruto for giving Lord Sasuke-kun Kyuubi Chakra. It just goes to show that Sasuke is ten times more effective with a smaller portion of kyuubi chakra than naruto is with the whole source. 

Uchiha Sasuke. Showing people how to use their powers since Chidori.


----------



## Jikayaki (Sep 17, 2013)

Csdabest said:


> Thank you Naruto for giving Lord Sasuke-kun Kyuubi Chakra. It just goes to show that Sasuke is ten times more effective with a smaller portion of kyuubi chakra than naruto is with the whole source.
> 
> Uchiha Sasuke. Showing people how to use their powers since Chidori.



Don't be silly Sasuke couldn't hope to control much more chakra than Naruto give him effectively. Naruto's abilities are quite impressive far beyond Sasuke in regards to pure chakra manipulation. What Naruto has always lacked in comparison is a variety of skills in which to use all that raw power.


----------



## hokage5522 (Sep 17, 2013)

I have seen fans pick apart feats done by others by giving high praise  but in regards to sasuke, its either no big deal or he needs to give us ten months of training to justify it. And yet naruto is now getting powers and modes out the ass with no training and every thing he does is praised to no end(hell if naruto had done what sasuke did, the fans would have hyped it too death.


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## Jikayaki (Sep 17, 2013)

hokage5522 said:


> I have seen fans pick apart feats done by others by giving high praise  but in regards to sasuke, its either no big deal or he needs to give us ten months of training to justify it. And yet naruto is now getting powers and modes out the ass with no training and every thing he does is praised to no end(hell if naruto had done what sasuke did, the fans would have hyped it too death.



It's not the same. Some parts of various fandoms didn't like how Sasuke got power-ups either handed to him to some degree or didn't really require much training. Naruto so far hasn't gotten anything that isn't based on previous training. Only the bijuu power-up that's coming, if anything will come from the bijuu fist bump, will be something similar.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 17, 2013)

hokage5522 said:


> I have seen fans pick apart feats done by others by giving high praise  but in regards to sasuke, its either no big deal or he needs to give us ten months of training to justify it. And yet naruto is now getting powers and modes out the ass with no training and every thing he does is praised to no end(hell if naruto had done what sasuke did, the fans would have hyped it too death.


Naruto's had to train for Biju Mode and tame Kurama. Naruto had to train for Sage Mode. He already combined both. Don't complain since you don't like.


----------



## Garcher (Sep 17, 2013)

He cut one branch nice. Hiruzen and Tobirama did more lol.

Sasuke<Itachi btw


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## Narutossss (Sep 17, 2013)

woooow there's actually a thread for this? cutting a god tree that can regenerate, not to mention hiruzen already did this. Damn sasuke fans are getting desperate, it's kinda sad.

The character has simply become a device to boost the moral of the main character, no better than neji at this point.


----------



## Csdabest (Sep 17, 2013)

Jikayaki said:


> Don't be silly Sasuke couldn't hope to control much more chakra than Naruto give him effectively. Naruto's abilities are quite impressive far beyond Sasuke in regards to pure chakra manipulation. What Naruto has always lacked in comparison is a variety of skills in which to use all that raw power.



And Just like Sasuke has said last chapter. "All That chakra is wasted on him". Everyone of the rookies that Naruto gave Chakra to started outshining Naruto almost instantly. Sasuke is no acception he is just showing how to put that kyuubi chakra to good use.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Sep 17, 2013)

Csdabest said:


> And Just like Sasuke has said last chapter. "All That chakra is wasted on him". Everyone of the rookies that Naruto gave Chakra to started outshining Naruto almost instantly. Sasuke is no acception he is just showing how to put that kyuubi chakra to good use.



Wasn't Naruto's (and Minato's) use of Kurama's chakra the only thing that did any meaningful damage to Obito?


----------



## Peo (Sep 17, 2013)

Sasuke did nothing he couldn't do without the cloak. Anyways cutting that branch isn't a big deal, but please comon now. 

I mean, you really think Sasuke couldn't give legs to his Susano'o without the Kyuubi's chakra? Ridiculous, the dude didn't even pullout his best Susano'o (the one he used against the white Zetsus)... I agree that the cloak gives more power but he didn't even go all out there. He just showed something we haven't seen before, period. 

I will add this too. As long as Sasuke don't say himself that he used the power of that cloak to create a ''bigger'' Susano'o (like all the other characters did when they got the cloak), saying that he NEEDED it is pure speculation from Sasuke's haters imo


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## Jikayaki (Sep 17, 2013)

Csdabest said:


> And Just like Sasuke has said last chapter. "All That chakra is wasted on him". Everyone of the rookies that Naruto gave Chakra to started outshining Naruto almost instantly. Sasuke is no acception he is just showing how to put that kyuubi chakra to good use.



That comment was directed at how stupid Naruto can be rushing ahead with Kyuubi mode even though Naruto understood only senjutsu worked against Obito. Sasuke was shaking in jealousy because of what Naruto was able to do. Naruto when it comes to chakra control and manipulation is perhaps the best in the manga. Sasuke couldn't hope to do the same.

No fodder out shined Naruto after being powered up using the shroud and neither did Sasuke. Naruto's chakra control and manipulation feats are second to none. Naruto just merely has rasengan and kage bunshin. Not very flashy in comparison to doujutsu ext.


----------



## Amatérasu’s Son (Sep 17, 2013)

It was a good cut. No Enton needed. Not bad Sasuke. 



The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> You guys might want to look at the size difference between the branches that Hiruzen and Sasuke, respectively, cut.
> 
> Hiruzen:
> 
> ...


It's the difference between cutting an artery versus cutting a capillary.

That said, it's NOT cutting the Aorta either. What Sasuke did is pretty much expected of a Susano'o. Hopefully the Kyubi chakra means that he'll be able to keep it up ti the end.


Itachi the Best said:


> He cut one branch nice. Hiruzen and Tobirama did more lol.
> 
> Sasuke<Itachi btw



My, I must say you're dedicated. You've Itachi fanboyed in every single post I've seen of yours lately. Quite impressive. I commend your dedication.


----------



## Saru (Sep 17, 2013)

first comes the legs...


----------



## Kage (Sep 17, 2013)

Yay?

I guess I shouldn't expect the quality of threads to get better when the manga keeps getting worse but...


----------



## Sifus (Sep 17, 2013)

LOL.  Naruto fans with Dat Thirst.  Comparing those puny branches Hiruzen broke to the giant root Susano'o cut through.


----------



## MS81 (Sep 17, 2013)

Sasuke looks boss right here!!!

But CS, your full of shit to say Sauce is better at Chidori than Kakashi!!!


----------



## Yakkai (Sep 17, 2013)

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the thing last week that Sauce would burn the tree down with Amaterasu and everyone sane saying that wouldn't happen?


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Sep 17, 2013)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Wasn't Naruto's (and Minato's) use of Kurama's chakra the only thing that did any meaningful damage to Obito?



They managed to harm Obito? Last I recall Jubito gaurded beatifully against Naruto and Minato's assault.  Hence wanting to try Bijudama at the end of the exchange.


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Sep 17, 2013)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> They managed to harm Obito? Last I recall Jubito gaurded beatifully against Naruto and Minato's assault.  Hence wanting to try Bijudama at the end of the exchange.



Meaningful damage, the whole reason Obito ever chose to escalate things was only because of Naruto and Minato's assault. 

That's more meaningful damage than anyone else with Naruto's chakra has done. In fact, Naruto was the only person with his chakra to actually damage Juubito.


----------



## KnightGhost (Sep 17, 2013)

Naruto has not mastered anything he hasn't tamed the Kurama.

Kurama has simply agreed in helping naruto by giving him full contral theres a big diffrence.


----------



## Jikayaki (Sep 17, 2013)

KnightGhost said:


> Naruto has not mastered anything he hasn't tamed the Kurama.
> 
> Kurama has simply agreed in helping naruto by giving him full contral theres a big diffrence.



Only the most dense or those in the deepest onset of denial would state that Naruto hasn't mastered Kyuubi chakra mode and tamed the Kurama. The relationship between Naruto and Kurama and how they work together isn't any different from Bee and Hachibi.


----------



## IDontHateYou (Sep 17, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Hashirama actually said Naruto _alone_ has chakra comparable or equal to him, Kurama's made it much larger.
> 
> EMS allows Sasuke to use his Mangekyo Techniques without cost, it doesn't mean his chakra levels increased. Not even close.


 
The proof is in the pudding.  Sasuke has used his EMS much more compared to his fight against the Kage and as you can see, he isn't tired at all. 

You have no evidence to say that having EMS doesn't increase your chakra capacities. For all we know, EMS can be the key to unlocking perfect susanno. You simply don't know. 

Go get the panel. Hashirama said, "His chakra is comparable to mines now". When he said it, he was referring to both Kurama and Naruto chakra combined.


----------



## Jikayaki (Sep 17, 2013)

IDontHateYou said:


> The proof is in the pudding.  Sasuke has used his EMS much more compared to his fight against the Kage and as you can see, he isn't tired at all.
> 
> You have no evidence to say that having EMS doesn't increase your chakra capacities. For all we know, EMS can be the key to unlocking perfect susanno. You simply don't know.
> 
> Go get the panel. Hashirama said, "His chakra is comparable to mines now". When he said it, he was referring to both Kurama and Naruto chakra combined.



EMS has nothing to do what so ever with Sasuke's chakra capacities. Sasuke's chakra capacity isn't going to increase just because of an eye transplant. What has happened in all likely hood is Mangekyou Sharingan techniques may now utilize less chakra or at least Mangekyou Sharingan doujutsu may now be less physically draining.


----------



## Lurko (Sep 17, 2013)

Can't wait to see sauce's ps.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 17, 2013)

IDontHateYou said:


> The proof is in the pudding.  Sasuke has used his EMS much more compared to his fight against the Kage and as you can see, he isn't tired at all.


 Its not that his chakra increased, its that the cost of Mangekyo techniques decreased. Before the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan, each Mangekyo Technique not only cost a massive chakra strain, but a physical strain. The Eternal Mangekyo takes that away and the chakra strain is lessened.


> You have no evidence to say that having EMS doesn't increase your chakra capacities. For all we know, EMS can be the key to unlocking perfect susanno. You simply don't know.


 Why would an *eye transplant* increase chakra levels? What sense would that make?


> Go get the panel. Hashirama said, "His chakra is comparable to mines now". When he said it, he was referring to both Kurama and Naruto chakra combined.


Hashirama was explicitly referring to _Naruto_ solely there. "Ah! He's transferred his chakra to everyone!" then he goes 'Wait theres Kyuubi chakra there too.' It wasn't until afterwards when Kurama's chakra became more pronounced that he realized Kurama's was there too. This is the most mistranslated and misunderstood line in the manga in recent memory. AND that he was only comparing the VOLUME of chakra of the SHROUDS specifically.


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## Csdabest (Sep 17, 2013)

MS81 said:


> Sasuke looks boss right here!!!
> 
> But CS, your full of shit to say Sauce is better at Chidori than Kakashi!!!



Sasuke very well has had his Chidori liked to be exactly like kakashi raikiri even mistakening being called Raikiri by Deidara and Raikage. Which in turn is like how the author is stating sasuke Chidori=Kakashi Raikiri and Sasuke even goes to tell Deidara that its called Chidori because he doesnt wish to be connected any shape or form with Team 7. Hence Having his jutsu being called Raikiri would show that he still has a bond with his old comrades. 

Not to mention that Sasuke has gone on to create many great variations of Chidori and has surpassed Kakashi in Raiton jutsu. Especially after he created Kirin.


----------



## Moloko (Sep 17, 2013)

navy said:


> The tree is cuttable and regenerates. What the hell did Sasuke prove here by cutting it? We already saw it cut last week.



This. What's the big deal?

Also: it he's such a genius why wasn't his first move to burn the tree down with Amaterasu or other Enton release techniques. It's a tree: wood burns and he's a fire and lack fire specialist. Why doesn't he act like one?


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## eyeknockout (Sep 17, 2013)

he just cut god tree in half

sasuke the butcher of gods confirmed


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 17, 2013)

eyeknockout said:


> he just cut god tree in half
> 
> sasuke the butcher of gods confirmed


When Naruto increased his power, he cut a single large root in half. Nothing more.


----------



## Sifus (Sep 17, 2013)

People are missing the OP's point. It's not about the cut being impressive or not.

It's the fact people were saying Sasuke would be useless against God Tree and being proven wrong this chapter.


----------



## Moloko (Sep 17, 2013)

Let the Sasuke fans have their moment.

They haven't had one in a while. 

They won't get another one for a while once Naruto and Madara fight.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 17, 2013)

Sifus said:


> People are missing the OP's point. It's not about the cut being impressive or not.
> 
> It's the fact people were saying Sasuke would be useless against God Tree and being proven wrong this chapter.


Its only because of Naruto that Sasuke isn't useless.


----------



## Jikayaki (Sep 17, 2013)

Sifus said:


> People are missing the OP's point. It's not about the cut being impressive or not.
> 
> It's the fact people were saying Sasuke would be useless against God Tree and being proven wrong this chapter.



Sasuke is still just as useless over all as he was before the chapter began. He still can't hurt Obito and the Shinju ultimately was no more effected by Sasuke's actions than Tobirama's actions last chapter. No one seriously argued that Sasuke wouldn't be able to cut a few branches, but ultimately in this battle without senjutsu he's partly irrelevant.


----------



## Klue (Sep 17, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Its only because of Naruto that Sasuke isn't useless.



PFFFFFFFFF!!

Suiton jutsu can easily slice through God Tree; Sasuke did not require Naruto's power, in this instance.


----------



## Sifus (Sep 17, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Its only because of Naruto that Sasuke isn't useless.





Moloko said:


> Let the Sasuke fans have their moment.
> 
> They haven't had one in a while.
> 
> They won't get another one for a while once Naruto and Madara fight.



These posts prove how butthurt people are that Naruto cried like a bitch for the fifth time


----------



## Sifus (Sep 18, 2013)

Jikayaki said:


> Sasuke is still just as useless over all as he was before the chapter began. He still can't hurt Obito and the Shinju ultimately was no more effected by Sasuke's actions than Tobirama's actions last chapter. No one seriously argued that Sasuke wouldn't be able to cut a few branches, but ultimately in this battle without senjutsu he's partly irrelevant.



Which is why he brought Juugo along


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

Klue said:


> PFFFFFFFFF!!
> 
> Suiton jutsu can easily slice through God Tree; Sasuke did not require Naruto's power, in this instance.


Naruto's chakra allowed his Susano'o to grow to the size of Naruto's Biju Mode, gain legs, and increased its slicing power so it could cut through a mountain sized root. Its like how Naruto increased Hinata's power so she could send a Jyubi tail flying across the battlefield.


Sifus said:


> These posts prove how butthurt people are that Naruto cried like a bitch for the fifth time


You mean when Naruto doesn't act like a sociopath which Sasuke is? When Naruto bears his teeth angrily and is so enraged a tear comes out?


Sifus said:


> Which is why he brought Juugo along


Jugo can't use senjutsu.


----------



## Sifus (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Naruto's chakra allowed his Susano'o to grow to the size of Naruto's Biju Mode, gain legs, and increased its slicing power so it could cut through a mountain sized root. Its like how Naruto increased Hinata's power so she could send a Jyubi tail flying across the battlefield.
> 
> You mean when Naruto doesn't act like a sociopath which Sasuke is? When Naruto bears his teeth angrily and is so enraged a tear comes out?
> 
> Jugo can't use senjutsu.



No,  I mean Naruto acting like Sakura and taking her title of "Crying Queen" .Not even Sakura cried this chapter despite how hopeless the situation was.


Yeah,  Oro and Suigetsu are right there yet Sasuke brings Juugo for the hell of it


----------



## Klue (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Naruto's chakra allowed his Susano'o to grow to the size of Naruto's Biju Mode, gain legs, and increased its slicing power so it could cut through a mountain sized root. Its like how Naruto increased Hinata's power so she could send a Jyubi tail flying across the battlefield.



Kurama's chakra most likely increased the maximum size of Sasuke's incomplete Susanoo along with his strength and durablity, but you cannot credit it with the forming of its lower half - nor can you honestly determine whether or not Susanoo is capable of cutting that root without Kurama chakra.

Again, the God Tree isn't that durable - ask Tobirama and Hiruzen.

Inconclusive.


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Sep 18, 2013)

Jikayaki said:


> Sasuke is still just as useless over all as he was before the chapter began. He still can't hurt Obito and the Shinju ultimately was no more effected by Sasuke's actions than Tobirama's actions last chapter. No one seriously argued that Sasuke wouldn't be able to cut a few branches, but ultimately in this battle without senjutsu he's partly irrelevant.



Once again you  without knowledge.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

Sifus said:


> No,  I mean Naruto acting like Sakura and taking her title of "Crying Queen" .Not even Sakura cried this chapter despite how hopeless the situation was.


Gritting his teeth and tears coming out. That's it. Naruto didn't even sob, he just was so enraged tears came out. And its not like he's a sociopath like Sasuke, Sifus, which you seem to prefer.



> Yeah,  Oro and Suigetsu are right there yet Sasuke brings Juugo for the hell of it


Jugo can't use Senjutsu. He isn't a senjutsu user at all. He takes in unbalanced natural energy and goes berserk.



Klue said:


> Kurama's chakra most likely increased the maximum size of Sasuke's incomplete Susanoo along with his strength and durablity, but you cannot credit it with the forming of its lower half - nor can you honestly determine whether or not Susanoo is capable of cutting that root without Kurama chakra.


...that's _COMPLETE SUSANO'O_. It has skin and the weapons it gains. Incomplete is still skeletal, get your Susano'o stages right. 

And yes, I can credit Naruto. Without Naruto, Sasuke was unable to form its lower half. Without Naruto, it wouldn't be able to cut a root of that size. You honestly believe a normal size Susano'o would be able to sever a mountain size tree root all on its own?


> Again, the God Tree isn't that durable - ask Tobirama and Hiruzen.
> 
> Inconclusive.


The sheer size of the root adds more durability though, Klue.


----------



## Klue (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> ...that's _COMPLETE SUSANO'O_. It has skin and the weapons it gains. Incomplete is still skeletal, get your Susano'o stages right.



Typo. 



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And yes, I can credit Naruto. Without Naruto, Sasuke was unable to form its lower half. Without Naruto, it wouldn't be able to cut a root of that size. You honestly believe a normal size Susano'o would be able to sever a mountain size tree root all on its own?
> 
> The sheer size of the root adds more durability though, Klue.



I'm not sure, but I don't see why you think its impossible. I've seen strange things, like Sasuke slicing through Hacibi's tentacle and A chopping Hacibi's horn off. 

Kurama's chakra does not increase a shinobi's shape manipulation skills - the legs were formed from Sasuke's will. Not sure how you could even begin to explain that one.


----------



## Sifus (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Gritting his teeth and tears coming out. That's it. Naruto didn't even sob, he just was so enraged tears came out. And its not like he's a sociopath like Sasuke, Sifus, which you seem to prefer.
> 
> 
> Jugo can't use Senjutsu. He isn't a senjutsu user at all. He takes in unbalanced natural energy and goes berserk.
> ...



Tears coming down your face is called crying whether it's out of rage, joy, or sadness.


>Sasuke brought Juugo
>Obviously because he can help Sasuke harm Obito


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

Klue said:


> I'm not sure, but I don't see why you think its impossible. And no, Kurama's chakra does not increase a shinobi's shape manipulation skills - the legs were formed from Sasuke's will.


Then why was Sasuke unable to form them earlier? Why couldn't he do it here, or here? Every usage beforehand he was unable to form legs but after getting Naruto's chakra he was able to and displayed it, how are we supposed to interpret that?



Sifus said:


> Tears coming down your face is called crying whether it's out of rage, joy, or sadness.


No, it doesn't. Tears can manifest in allergic reactions or sneezes of all things.



> >Sasuke brought Juugo
> >Obviously because he can help Sasuke harm Obito


Even though Jugo isn't a senjutsu user, all of his techniques are classified as ninjutsu, and Jugo himself says he doesn't use senjutsu just 'Sage Transformation' which isn't even a Senjutsu ability?


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## Klue (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Then why was Sasuke unable to form them earlier? Why couldn't he do it here, or here? Every usage beforehand he was unable to form legs but after getting Naruto's chakra he was able to and displayed it, how are we supposed to interpret that?



Where does it say he was unable to? 



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Jugo can't use Senjutsu. He isn't a senjutsu user at all. He takes in unbalanced natural energy and goes berserk.



Juugo referred to his own ability as a "Sage Transformation." When Orochimaru reclaimed his chakra from Kabuto, Juugo said that he cancelled Kabuto's "Sage Transformation."

He's likely forming Sage Chakra.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

Klue said:


> Where does it say he was unable to?


Its implied since if he could have, he would Klue. Especially at times when it would have helped.



Klue said:


> Juugo referred to his own ability as a "Sage Transformation." When Orochimaru reclaimed his chakra from Kabuto, Juugo said that he cancelled Kabuto's "Sage Transformation."
> 
> He's likely forming Sage Chakra.


Sage Transformation isn't senjutsu though. Jugo doesn't know about Sage Mode, which Orochimaru released from Kabuto. And Jugo can't form Sage Chakra, he can't balance the natural energy due to his inferior reserves. Its why he goes berserk, he takes too much or too little. Its only because of his clan's ability he doesn't turn to stone if he takes too much.


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## Klue (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Its implied since if he could have, he would Klue. Especially at times when it would have helped.



Guess he is unable to use Final Susanoo or Susanoo's Enton Control while using Kurama's chakra.Because he hadn't used either, when it would have helped.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

Klue said:


> Guess he is unable to use Final Susanoo or Susanoo's Enton Control while using Kurama's chakra.Because he hadn't used either, when it would have helped.


He's in mid air, like he was in 647, if he could form the legs why wouldn't he THEN to give more stability?


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## Sifus (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Then why was Sasuke unable to form them earlier? Why couldn't he do it here, or here? Every usage beforehand he was unable to form legs but after getting Naruto's chakra he was able to and displayed it, how are we supposed to interpret that?
> 
> 
> No, it doesn't. Tears can manifest in allergic reactions or sneezes of all things.
> ...



Tears caused by allergies don't come continuously like they did with Naruto this chapter. Nor do they have any emotional connection to them such as rage, joy, or sadness .


Panel or Databook stating Juugo's abilities classify as ninjutsu.


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## Klue (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> He's in mid air, like he was in 647, if he could form the legs why wouldn't he THEN to give more stability?



For the same reason he didn't use Final Susanoo. Didn't need to. 

Credit Kurama's chakra if a feat is demonstrated that cannot be repeated nor match, by the given character, without it. Are you implying that Sasuke's Susanoo will only ever form legs if he is actively using Kurama's power?


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## Sifus (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> He's in mid air, like he was in 647, if he could form the legs why wouldn't he THEN to give more stability?



Same reason he didn't use Susano'o when fighting Bee. Or use complete Susano'o at the Kage Summit.

You act as if Sasuke doesn't learn things off the fly.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

Sifus said:


> Tears caused by allergies don't come continuously like they did with Naruto this chapter. Nor do they have any emotional connection to them such as rage, joy, or sadness .


You do know of the term 'Berserker Tears' right? Naruto isn't crying, he's just so enraged tears fall from his eyes.



> Panel or Databook stating Juugo's abilities classify as ninjutsu.


Since the manga specifically calls Jugo's ability a bloodline called Senninka or Sage Transformation. Its not Sage Mode, it hasn't demonstrated any abilities Sage Mode has, nor has its power been shown to be even in the same league as Sage Mode. Jugo can't create the balanced Senjutsu chakra-this is evident of his rages.


Klue said:


> For the same reason he didn't use Final Susanoo. Didn't need to.
> 
> Credit Kurama's chakra if a feat is demonstrated that cannot be repeated nor match, by the given character, without it. Are you implying that Sasuke's Susanoo will only ever form legs if he is actively using Kurama's power?


I'm implying Naruto's chakra enabled him to UNLOCK the legs on Susano'o, which Sasuke'd have without it.


Sifus said:


> Same reason he didn't use Susano'o when fighting Bee. Or use complete Susano'o at the Kage Summit.
> 
> You act as if Sasuke doesn't learn things off the fly.


...Sasuke couldn't use Susano'o against Bee, his eyes hadn't fully awakened or were mastered there. Not that it'd help, Bee'd just tear through it like a hot knife through butter. And Sasuke wasn't able to use COmplete Susano'o at the Kage Summit since he first awoken Susano'o then.


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## Dolohov27 (Sep 18, 2013)

With Naruto's chakra. :rofl


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## Klue (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> I'm implying Naruto's chakra enabled him to UNLOCK the legs on Susano'o, which Sasuke'd have without it.



Not saying it's impossible, but I can't even begin to make sense of it.


----------



## Miyoshi (Sep 18, 2013)

IDontHateYou said:


> Im tired of the "it was Naruto's chakra argument".
> 
> Cmon guys, Naruto is special just because he's a senju/uzumaki, the same way Sasuke is special because he is a Uchia.
> 
> ...



Not to engage into the Naruto vs Sasuke beef this week, besides the fact that I never finished reading thru this thread from yesterday, but taking Kyuubi away from Naruto is equivalent to taking itachi's eyes from Sasuke.

Then we'd have SM Naruto vs MS Sasuke. Which I believe Naruto would have the edge in, particularly because of endurance and long-gevity.

What's this thread about again? Lol

Oh, yeah that was a pretty thick branch Sasuke sliced through. It was impressive enough to regain relevance. As if he'd lost it. However his reactions to Naruto's power was a statement within itself. The statement fans were waiting to get out of a rare reaction from him.

It is odd that Sasuke still has his cloak though. This must play some role I'm sure. Besides that Sasuke should also "feel Naruto's heart" right now. Their team work should prove to be flawless.


----------



## DeK3iDE (Sep 18, 2013)

Dolohov27 said:


> With Naruto's chakra. :rofl


>> still exponentially better than what a lot of other ppl out there were capable of doing with it


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## WhiteWolf (Sep 18, 2013)

Wasn't Sasuke covered in Kyubi shroud just like everyone else?


----------



## ShadowReij (Sep 18, 2013)

PopoTime said:


> Does being an Uchiha fan grant you clairvoyance?


Nah, just following the same story, though if you honestly believe Sasuke doesn't have PS or can't do it.....well good luck to you. 




> Erm no i didnt?
> 
> I said, he has no endurance feats EXCEPT reaching Mei, as in, he has no endurance feats EXCEPT 1.
> 
> If your basing the size of Sasuke's chakra tank off off that endurance feat then you agree that his tank is not that big (exhausted once he reached Mei)


Exactly, you say he has no endurance feat but then says he has one. You're the one that said it. 



> Erm, its actually the opposite, the only negative effects we've seen of Amaterasu is the effect on the users eyes, EMS negates this.



Still doesn't negate the cost of the MS jutsu, as you've said though it negates the backlash so I don't see how this points to Sasuke not having the tank necessary to pull it off. Which he does, hence why he spams them MS techs. Bigger tank than Naruto? No, as Naruto has essentially an infinite thanks to Kurama. Big enough to bring out PS like Madara oh yeah.


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## Trojan (Sep 18, 2013)

Thank you Naruto for your chakra.


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## Csdabest (Sep 18, 2013)

Elia said:


> Thank you Naruto for your chakra.



Yes. Naruto is such a good guy. He reminds me of back when one of my friends was in a gang. My friend had such amazing accuracy with a fire arm. But he didnt own one just went to the ranges alot. But out other friend he sucked with a gun and couldn't hit shit. One Day they were in a bine and the other friend coudln't shoot the guy cuz he had no accuracy. Then other friend who was good borrowed the gun and showed our other friend how to shoot the dang thing. Showing once again that he was better then our friend at using a gun than the actual owner was. 

Naruto is such a good guy. Sharing is caring



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Then why was Sasuke unable to form them earlier? Why couldn't he do it here, or here? Every usage beforehand he was unable to form legs but after getting Naruto's chakra he was able to and displayed it, how are we supposed to interpret that?
> 
> 
> No, it doesn't. Tears can manifest in allergic reactions or sneezes of all things.
> ...



You do realize that all of Naruto techniques are classified as ninjutsu. Until he uses them in Sage Mode Right? Remember Rasengan is a ninjutsu. Yet When Naruto used it against obito in Sage Mode. They stated that only senjutsu work. Senjutsu=ninjutsu using Sage Chakra/Natural Energy


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## icemaster143 (Sep 18, 2013)

Naruto's chakra had nothing to do with Sasuke's Susanno.

We have already seen from Madara having Hashirama's cells and chakra that their is absolutly no effect on Susanno. In fact the only way to make Susanno stronger is to wrap it on a biju.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

icemaster143 said:


> Naruto's chakra had nothing to do with Sasuke's Susanno.
> 
> We have already seen from Madara having Hashirama's cells and chakra that their is absolutly no effect on Susanno. In fact the only way to make Susanno stronger is to wrap it on a biju.


Sasuke's Complete Susano'o was tiny, had far less cutting power, and lacked legs before Naruto gave him his chakra. Naruto powered him up, just deal with it okay?


----------



## Thdyingbreed (Sep 18, 2013)

It's pretty simple what happened people.

Naruto's chakra caused two things one of which Sasuke couldn't do on his own which he increased the size of Sasuke's Susanoo too match Naruto's Bijuu mode in size.

The second was it assisted Sasuke's development Susanoo so he could develop legs quicker like we saw Madara's had but the latter is something that would of happened on his own in time just at a slower pace as that's a natural development of Susanoo.


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## m1cojakle (Sep 18, 2013)

Except that there are like 5000 of those testicles. Sasuke is a useless as ever.


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## icemaster143 (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Sasuke's Complete Susano'o was tiny, had far less cutting power, and lacked legs before Naruto gave him his chakra. Naruto powered him up, just deal with it okay?



Tiny?

It only looks bigger now because of the legs and fully formed lower half. otherwise it looks about the same as when he fought danzo, or Itachi. 

The fact is that now that Sasuke's feet no longer touch the floor and the susanno has form from its hips to the floor it looks significantly bigger.

As for the cutting power I don't recall any examples where it was shown to be lacking at all. 

Also keep in mind that dispite the size of the tree it doesn't seem anymore durable than your average tree since both the second and third Hokage cut through the branches with ease.


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## Setsuna00 (Sep 18, 2013)

LOL Sasuke fan tards are in full force arguing nothing. Pathetic.


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## Matta Clatta (Sep 18, 2013)

better sasuke take the lead in attacking with naruto crying yet again


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## DeK3iDE (Sep 18, 2013)

icemaster143 said:


> Tiny?
> 
> It only looks bigger now because of the legs and fully formed lower half. otherwise it looks about the same as when he fought danzo, or Itachi.
> 
> ...


i don't see how others get this.



m1cojakle said:


> Except that there are like 5000 of those testicles. Sasuke is a useless as ever.


and yet he was the one to do _something_ in the chapter, not Naruto or NF's fav Hokage 



Matta Clatta said:


> better sasuke take the lead in attacking with naruto crying yet again


this 1000%. I don't hate Naruto but the constant crying is just....painful to put up with.


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## Krippy (Sep 18, 2013)

Until Sasuke acknowledges the cloak as assisting him, there's nothing to argue here. He could have performed that with or without the cloak.


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## Klue (Sep 18, 2013)

Krippy said:


> Until Sasuke acknowledges the cloak as assisting him, there's nothing to argue here. He could have performed that with or without the cloak.


 
Exactly!

I'm not saying it's impossible, maybe Naruto/Kurama's power was the key which allowed him to further materialize the Susanoo. But we are lacking quite a bit of information, thus its best to rely on what we do know: 

_Kurama's chakra is used as a quality booster in place of or integrating with the users chakra; therefore, making the chakra and all jutsu derived from said chakra, much more powerful.

Materialization of the Susanoo is determined by the user's will power - like also relying on the users ability to shape chakra? The user has complete control over how it forms and even the size of those parts (Madara used a small version of incomplete Susanoo to take Tsunade as his Edo Tensei was ending)._​
I believe its far to assume Naruto's chakra easily allowed Sasuke to increase the size of Susanoo (higher quality chakra = greater results with identical output), but to actually conclude that the legs were formed because of that power too, is completely unsupported.

The best case one can make: "Legs only appeared after Sasuke gained Naruto/Kurama chakra."


*Again! I'm not saying the idea is without merit. Just completely unsupported.*


----------



## DeK3iDE (Sep 18, 2013)

Krippy said:


> Until Sasuke acknowledges the cloak as assisting him, there's nothing to argue here. He could have performed that with or without the cloak.


except Sasuke would never openly acknowledge that out loud if that was in fact the case.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

icemaster143 said:


> Tiny?
> 
> It only looks bigger now because of the legs and fully formed lower half. otherwise it looks about the same as when he fought danzo, or Itachi.
> 
> ...


Sasuke's Complete Susano'o was tiny before Naruto gave him his chakra. It could fit on Aoba's head, remember? Naruto's chakra increased its size and power, its what it does. Kamui gets more than three times as powerful. Hinata can send a Jyubi tail flying across the entire battlefield with a single Hakke Kusho. 

Its only because of Naruto that its this size now and that it has gotten legs.



Matta Clatta said:


> better sasuke take the lead in attacking with naruto crying yet again


Naruto wasn't crying, and it wouldn't matter if he did since unlike Sasuke, he isn't a sociopath who doesn't care about the deaths of ten thousand people he was trying to protect.


----------



## Peo (Sep 18, 2013)

Big Bad Wolf said:


> except Sasuke would never openly acknowledge that out loud if that was in fact the case.



Yeah it's not like Kishimoto is showing what his characters are thinking...  

But anyways it's getting ridiculous now. His current Susano'o right now isnt even his best, like 2 stages before it. Some1 even said his cutting abilities were upgraded too, forgetting that he cut threw pillars like butter against the Kages. 

I could ''agree'' with you guys if he pulled out a PS with Itachi's weap made of Enton. But adding legs to his weakest version of the Susano'o... just no.



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Sasuke's Complete Susano'o was tiny before Naruto gave him his chakra. It could fit on Aoba's head, remember? Naruto's chakra increased its size and power, its what it does. Kamui gets more than three times as powerful. Hinata can send a Jyubi tail flying across the entire battlefield with a single Hakke Kusho.
> 
> Its only because of Naruto that its this size now and that it has gotten legs.
> 
> ...



It's not because he pulled a Susano'o with legs just now that he wasn't able to do it before. Madara randomly gave legs to his during his fight against the Kages (right after he used the pollen), but he didn't before and he had a lot of occasions to do it. 

Just wait for next week, if Sasuke is really powered up by the cloak (I mean if the Susano'o he is using now is because of the cloak) we will certainly have a panel or 2 of Sasuke saying something like ''That chakra is outstanding with that I can upgrade my Susano'o''.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

Peo said:


> It's not because he pulled a Susano'o with legs just now that he wasn't able to do it before. Madara randomly gave legs to his during his fight against the Kages (right after he used the pollen), but he didn't before and he had a lot of occasions to do it.
> 
> Just wait for next week, if Sasuke is really powered up by the cloak (I mean if the Susano'o he is using now is because of the cloak) we will certainly have a panel or 2 of Sasuke saying something like ''That chakra is outstanding with that I can upgrade my Susano'o''.


Look, we know that Naruto powers up shinobi when he gives them the cloak. Sasuke's Susano'o grew from fitting onto Aoba's head before Naruto's chakra to being as big as Naruto's Biju Mode after. It gained legs after. Sasuke showed no inclination that his Susano'o had legs beforehand, even when he leaped into the air to shoot Obito with an Enton Arrow. 

Peo, the manga makes it CLEAR that Naruto upgrades a shinobi's power several fold after giving them the chakra cloak. You're ignoring the other examples just to claim Sasuke is already on this level alone.


----------



## shyakugaun (Sep 18, 2013)

Lmao at Naruto fans trying to Claim Sasuke's powerup smh


----------



## Peo (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Look, we know that Naruto powers up shinobi when he gives them the cloak. Sasuke's Susano'o grew from fitting onto Aoba's head before Naruto's chakra to being as big as Naruto's Biju Mode after. It gained legs after. Sasuke showed no inclination that his Susano'o had legs beforehand, even when he leaped into the air to shoot Obito with an Enton Arrow.
> 
> Peo, the manga makes it CLEAR that Naruto upgrades a shinobi's power several fold after giving them the chakra cloak. You're ignoring the other examples just to claim Sasuke is already on this level alone.



Look, the Susano'o he's using right now is the same size of the previous one, but with legs lol. His level didn't even upgrade. I would  agree with you 100% if he had pulled out something impressive like PS, but right now assuming he needed Naruto's chakra to give legs to that Susano'o, and also saying that without the cloak he won't be able to do it anymore, nope. 

I'm not ignoring that the Kyuubi cloak is powering up people, but Sasuke didn't need that ''powerup'' to give legs to his Susano'o, that's all I'm saying.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

Peo said:


> Look, the Susano'o he's using right now is the same size of the previous one, but with legs lol. His level didn't even upgrade. I would  agree with you 100% if he had pulled out something impressive like PS, but right now assuming he needed Naruto's chakra to give legs to that Susano'o, and also saying that without the cloak he won't be able to do it anymore, nope.
> 
> I'm not ignoring that the Kyuubi cloak is powering up people, but Sasuke didn't need that ''powerup'' to give legs to his Susano'o, that's all I'm saying.


Sasuke's Susano'o is _several times larger_ now. Naruto's chakra made it grow _to the size of Naruto's Biju Mode_ which tops 118 meters. Sasuke's normal Susano'o tops _12 meters_, and even with legs that'd make it go up to 24 or so.

Before Naruto powered him up, Sasuke's Complete Susano'o fits on Aoba's head and is substantially smaller. After Narutos' chakra its the same size and height as Naruto's Biju Mode. Notice the difference.


----------



## Sifus (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Sasuke's Susano'o is _several times larger_ now. Naruto's chakra made it grow _to the size of Naruto's Biju Mode_ which tops 118 meters. Sasuke's normal Susano'o tops _12 meters_, and even with legs that'd make it go up to 24 or so.
> 
> Before Naruto powered him up, Sasuke's Complete Susano'o fits on Aoba's head and is substantially smaller. After Narutos' chakra its the same size and height as Naruto's Biju Mode. Notice the difference.



Dude, No one believes you. Your merely stating opinions at this point.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

Sifus said:


> Dude, No one believes you. Your merely stating opinions at this point.


You mean the Sasuke fans, such as yourself, who refuse to believe when _I POST FUCKING EVIDENCE OF THE DIFFERENCE?_


----------



## Csdabest (Sep 18, 2013)

Let me explain how much this chakra shroud is aiding Sasuke. Sasuke will be able to do alot more with Susano-o after the shroud is gone.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

Csdabest said:


> Let me explain how much this chakra shroud is aiding Sasuke. Sasuke will be able to do alot more with Susano-o after the shroud is gone.


His Susano'o will most likely shrink when the V1 Cloak recedes into his body. 

Before Naruto gave him power, Susano'o just fits on Aoba's head. Afterwards, its as big as Naruto's Biju Mode. Its no different than Hinata's Super Hakke Kusho which she used when she got the V1 Cloak.


----------



## Peo (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Sasuke's Susano'o is _several times larger_ now. Naruto's chakra made it grow _to the size of Naruto's Biju Mode_ which tops 118 meters. Sasuke's normal Susano'o tops _12 meters_, and even with legs that'd make it go up to 24 or so.
> 
> Before Naruto powered him up, Sasuke's Complete Susano'o fits on Aoba's head and is substantially smaller. After Narutos' chakra its the same size and height as Naruto's Biju Mode. Notice the difference.



Yeah we see perfectly on the last image... not.

Look mate, even on the last image of this week's chapter you can see that they are not that high off the ground.  Plus, Naruto's in the head of Kyuubi's chakra, which is also not very high off the ground. Nothing in this chapter shows that the Susano'o is larger than the previous versions, only taller because of the legs. In fact, the one he uses in the chapter 574 looks even larger. Sasuke didn't even go all out there (he can use at least 2 better versions of Susano'o), so the powerup of the cloak isn't needed at the moment.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

Peo said:


> Yeah we see perfectly on the last image... not.
> 
> Look mate, even on the last image of this week's chapter you can see that they are not that high off the ground.  Plus, Naruto's in the head of Kyuubi's chakra, which is also not very high off the ground. Nothing in this chapter shows that the Susano'o is larger than the previous versions, only taller because of the legs. In fact, the one he uses in the chapter 574 looks even larger. Sasuke didn't even go all out there (he can use at least 2 better versions of Susano'o), so the powerup of the cloak isn't needed at the moment.


Manga: Sasuke's Susano'o is the size of Naruto's Tailed Beast Mode
You: Its not, its all Sasuke's power, he doesn't need Naruto.

This is substantially smaller than this.


----------



## Csdabest (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> His Susano'o will most likely shrink when the V1 Cloak recedes into his body.
> 
> Before Naruto gave him power, Susano'o just fits on Aoba's head. Afterwards, its as big as Naruto's Biju Mode. Its no different than Hinata's Super Hakke Kusho which she used when she got the V1 Cloak.



Sasuke has Changed the size of his Susano-o multiple times. Just as Naruto has Changed the size of his Fox Mode. And Sasuke susano-o is still the same size it just has legs now. Its not even in it full size because he not even using its more advanced forms. Kyuubi Chakra is not making a solid difference is Sasuke Susano-o.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

Csdabest said:


> Sasuke has Changed the size of his Susano-o multiple times. Just as Naruto has Changed the size of his Fox Mode. And Sasuke susano-o is still the same size it just has legs now. Its not even in it full size because he not even using its more advanced forms. Kyuubi Chakra is not making a solid difference is Sasuke Susano-o.


When has Sasuke _ever_ changed the size of the Susano'o? And Naruto's never changed the size of his Biju Mode. All you are doing is denying manga facts that Naruto powered him up, made his Susano'o 5 times larger due to the increase. Manga: Naruto's chakra powers up the shinobi given. You: It doesn't for Sasuke since he's Sasuke.


----------



## Sifus (Sep 18, 2013)

This whole debate is stupid. We knew Sasuke was capable of this ever since Madara showed it

Attributing Sasuke's current Susano'o to Kurama cloak is dumb since it's obvious that Sasuke will eventually use it again in the future without the Kyuubi's chakra.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

Sifus said:


> This whole debate is stupid. We knew Sasuke was capable of this ever since Madara showed it
> 
> Attributing Sasuke's current Susano'o to Kurama cloak is dumb since it's obvious that Sasuke will eventually use it again in the future without the Kyuubi's chakra.


In the future. Currently, he's only making use of the giant Susano'o with Naruto's chakra helping him out. And no, Sasuke wasn't capable of what Madara did since he's still new to the EMS. Here's the thing, Naruto powers up whoever he gives his chakra to. We've seen the boost Kamui gets. We've seen the boost Hinata's Hakke Kusho gets. What Sasuke did this chapter is NO different.


----------



## Peo (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Manga: Sasuke's Susano'o is the size of Naruto's Tailed Beast Mode
> You: Its not, its all Sasuke's power, he doesn't need Naruto.
> 
> This is substantially smaller than this.



It's smaller in height but it's larger than the one he is using right now. And no Sasuke doesn't need Naruto, he can do things on his own which you can't see, or don't want to see. 

I think you like Naruto too much and also hate Sasuke too much to stay objective, you didnt even read my full post. Sasuke didn't show any signs of powerup this chapter, except giving legs to a basic Susano'o, which is meaningless.


----------



## BlinkST (Sep 18, 2013)

I think I'll agree with him guys. It does look about 4x bigger.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

Peo said:


> It's smaller in height but it's larger than the one he is using right now. And no Sasuke doesn't need Naruto, he can do things on his own which you can't see, or don't want to see.


...how can you even claim that? Sasuke did need Naruto to get his Susano'o this big. His 'final' Susano'o in 574 is as big as his current Susano'o's feet.


> I think you like Naruto too much and also hate Sasuke too much to stay objective, you didnt even read my full post. Sasuke didn't show any signs of powerup this chapter, except giving legs to a basic Susano'o, which is meaningless.


Other than his Susano'o getting supersized, other than _EVERY OTHER JUTSU IN THE ENTIRE MANGA GETTING SUPERPOWERED BY NARUTO'S CHAKRA?_ Naruto helped him get his Susano'o to this level. Accept it. Its no fucking different than ANY OTHER NINJA. Do I need to bring out Hinata's Hakke Kusho with Naruto's chakra powering her up?


----------



## Sifus (Sep 18, 2013)

BlinkST said:


> I think I'll agree with him guys. It does look about 4x bigger.



You off the team. 

Go back to OMF


----------



## DeK3iDE (Sep 18, 2013)

BlinkST said:


> I think I'll agree with him guys. It does look about 4x bigger.


it could be the case, but there have been times where Kishimoto's art was shitty when it came to consistently displaying something in perspective i.e. Kurama


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

Big Bad Wolf said:


> it could be the case, but there have been times where Kishimoto's art was shitty when it came to consistently displaying something in perspective i.e. Kurama


Except this time we have a side by side comparison between Naruto's Biju Mode and Sasuke's Complete Susano'o. Sasuke's Complete Susano'o is 4-5x larger. I've posted proof over and over and over again.


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## lathia (Sep 18, 2013)

Sarcasm detector. Halp


----------



## Sifus (Sep 18, 2013)

Just realized Sasuke's Susano'o is kneeling.  It's bigger than Naruto's chakra construct


----------



## DeK3iDE (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Except this time we have a side by side comparison between Naruto's Biju Mode and Sasuke's Complete Susano'o. Sasuke's Complete Susano'o is 4-5x larger. I've posted proof over and over and over again.


dude, calm the fuck down. I said it was probably the case. I didn't say it wasn't at all possible. I was just throwing out the possibility based on Kishimoto's past drawing errors, sheesh.....


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

Sifus said:


> Just realized Sasuke's Susano'o is kneeling.  It's bigger than Naruto's chakra construct


It was knealing a page before, it shouldn't be anymore. And even if it was, its due to Naruto himself Sifus. Just accept it, Naruto powered Sasuke up like he did everyone else in the Alliance. Its no fucking different than Kakashi's Gyuki-sized Kamui or Hinata's Jyubi-pushing Hakke Kusho.


----------



## Sifus (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> It was knealing a page before, it shouldn't be anymore. And even if it was, its due to Naruto himself Sifus. Just accept it, Naruto powered Sasuke up like he did everyone else in the Alliance. Its no fucking different than Kakashi's Gyuki-sized Kamui or Hinata's Jyubi-pushing Hakke Kusho.



Since we know EMS allows Susano'o to have legs I'll credit the size and power of Sasuke's susano'o to his own prowess until he says so otherwise 
(Which he probably will next chap  )


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

Sifus said:


> Since we know EMS allows Susano'o to have legs I'll credit the size and power of Sasuke's susano'o to his own prowess until he says so otherwise (Which he probably will next chap  )


Dude. Come the fuck on. Naruto's power up to the rest of the Shinobi is a passive one. Sasuke's Susano'o got its legs after getting Naruto's power and got larger and stronger because of it. It is no different than Gyuki-sized Kamui or Jyubi-tail tossing Hinata after getting Naruto's power.


----------



## Peo (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> ...how can you even claim that? Sasuke did need Naruto to get his Susano'o this big. His 'final' Susano'o in 574 is as big as his current Susano'o's feet.
> 
> Other than his Susano'o getting supersized, other than _EVERY OTHER JUTSU IN THE ENTIRE MANGA GETTING SUPERPOWERED BY NARUTO'S CHAKRA?_ Naruto helped him get his Susano'o to this level. Accept it. Its no fucking different than ANY OTHER NINJA. Do I need to bring out Hinata's Hakke Kusho with Naruto's chakra powering her up?



Stop saying things like accept it, please. I'm just not convinced by what you say and I wont be anywhere soon, because nothing in the chapter or in the previous ones prove what you're saying. The difference between Hinata and Sasuke is Hinata said herself that it was because of the cloak if she did something that powerful (she was surprised by what she did). Sasuke just pulled out that Susano'o without hesitation and didn't say or think anything *(yet) *about the power the cloak gives.  It's not impossible that Sasuke is able to do that Susano'o only because of the cloak, but right now we can't assume that, and logically, because he didn't use his best version of the Susano'o, he didn't. But we'll see mate, arguing over it for ever won't bring us anywhere. Next chapter should answer it


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

Though what Naruto did is a passive power up, all the user's techniques get a huge boost just because of having the Version 1 Cloak Naruto gives. Sasuke should be no different at all Peo.


----------



## Sifus (Sep 18, 2013)

Sasuke made Susano'o grow an extra arm in the Kabuto fight because the situation required it.


Same shit happened this chapter. Susano'o needed legs. So Sasuke grew them


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

Sifus said:


> Sasuke made Susano'o grow an extra arm in the Kabuto fight because the situation required it.
> 
> 
> Same shit happened this chapter.


Itachi made his Susano'o get an extra arm as well and he doesn't have the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan.

Sasuke was powered up by Naruto. It is a passive power up that makes all of his techniques five times more power than normal.


----------



## Sifus (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Itachi made his Susano'o get an extra arm as well and he doesn't have the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan.
> 
> Sasuke was powered up by Naruto. It is a passive power up that makes all of his techniques five times more power than normal.



>Implying power = shape manipulation


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

Sifus said:


> >Implying power = shape manipulation


It should considering Sasuke wasn't able to form legs beforehand.


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## The Faceless Man (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Itachi made his Susano'o get an extra arm as well and he doesn't have the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan.
> 
> Sasuke was powered up by Naruto. It is a passive power up that makes all of his techniques five times more power than normal.



I agree with what you said in this thread but the legs are an EMS feat cuz Madara had PS and everything against Hashirama a long time ago , also you should know that the guys you are arguing have already been owned in my thread "Don't forget Sasuke still has Naruto's cloak" they haven taken refuge here but they know Naruto cloak helped Sasuke cut that root  dat naruto cloak helps big time


----------



## ch1p (Sep 18, 2013)

I'm not going to read this whole thread.

Can someone explain how Sasuke can do it? Aren't the weapons Susano uses made of chakra and to add, chakra which isn't elemental? Then how can they damage it?

I'd get if Tsunade / Sakura started punching the ground or throwing rocks at it, because chakra is used indirectly. I'd get it TenTen / Lee attacked the tree because neither uses chakra for their attack patterns to begin with. Now how the fuck does Susano work?


----------



## Sifus (Sep 18, 2013)

ch1p said:


> I'm not going to read this whole thread.
> 
> Can someone explain how Sasuke can do it? Aren't the weapons Susano uses made of chakra and to add, chakra which isn't elemental? Then how can they damage it?
> 
> I'd get if Tsunade / Sakura started punching the ground or throwing rocks at it, because chakra is used indirectly. I'd get it TenTen / Lee attacked the tree because neither uses chakra for their attack patterns to begin with. Now how the fuck does Susano work?



Juugo is applying nature energy to the Susano'o


----------



## ch1p (Sep 18, 2013)

Sifus said:


> Juugo is applying nature energy to the Susano'o



This was stated or is it a theory?


----------



## Sifus (Sep 18, 2013)

ch1p said:


> This was stated or is it a theory?



Well Juugo is seen in the Susano'o and Sasuke chose to bring him instead of Oro or Suigetsu so I'm 100% sure my theory is right.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

Sifus said:


> Well Juugo is seen in the Susano'o and Sasuke chose to bring him instead of Oro or Suigetsu so I'm 100% sure my theory is right.


Jugo can transfer his Natural Energy since when? He doesn't have the Chakra Transfer ability. Not to mention its not Natural Energy itself, its the Sage Chakra that is created by the balance of physical, mental, and natural which can damage Obito anyway.


----------



## Csdabest (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> It should considering Sasuke wasn't able to form legs beforehand.



Who said Sasuke couldn't. Just because he didnt doesnt mean he couldnt. Especially since Both Itachi and Sasuke as formed extra fourth Susano-o arm when previously they had only used three.


----------



## Sifus (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Jugo can transfer his Natural Energy since when? He doesn't have the Chakra Transfer ability. Not to mention its not Natural Energy itself, its the Sage Chakra that is created by the balance of physical, mental, and natural which can damage Obito anyway.



He transferred it to Sasuke to bring out the Zetsu at the Uchiha shrine. Read the manga


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

Sifus said:


> He transferred it to Sasuke to bring out the Zetsu at the Uchiha shrine. Read the manga


Huh. I suppose that does make sense, but again, the point still stands that without Senjutsu chakra any Natural Energy chakra is moot.


----------



## Sifus (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Huh. I suppose that does make sense, but again, the point still stands that without Senjutsu chakra any Natural Energy chakra is moot.



Please enlighten me on why else then would Sasuke bring Juugo along? 

Stop acting dense. And don't post shit on my userpage again either


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

Sifus said:


> Please enlighten me on why else then would Sasuke bring Juugo along?
> 
> Stop acting dense. And don't post shit on my userpage again either


Since Jugo is a teammate whose proved valuable. Jugo can't use senjutsu chakra, Sifus. He's not a user, can't use Sage Mode, nor can he create the Sage Chakra due to his instability.


----------



## Sifus (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Since Jugo is a teammate whose proved valuable. Jugo can't use senjutsu chakra, Sifus. He's not a user, can't use Sage Mode, nor can he create the Sage Chakra due to his instability.



So Oro and Suigetsu aren't valuable?  Only Juugo?

When Sasuke came to the battlefield he left Juugo behind. Let's look at the facts.

>Juugo can utilize and transfer natural energy
>Only natural energy can harm Obito
>Despite Taka coming he only brings Juugo to the front lines
>Sasuke spent three chapters analyzing Naruto's senjutsu power

Take off your fanboy goggles. It's obvious where Kishi is taking this.


You think Sasuke is just using Susano'o for show? He's going to fight along side Naruto next chapter.


----------



## BlinkST (Sep 18, 2013)

supersaiyanbro will fight to the bitter end


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

Sifus said:


> So Oro and Suigetsu aren't valuable?  Only Juugo?
> 
> When Sasuke came to the battlefield he left Juugo behind. Let's look at the facts.
> 
> ...


Wrong. Only _Senjutsu_ can harm Obito. Natural Energy is a COMPONENT of Sage Chakra but its not the only thing there. Jugo can't use Senjutsu, isn't a user, and all of his powers are pure chakra based. Its not 'fanboy goggles', its how Senjutsu chakra works and how Obito is damaged by it.



BlinkST said:


> supersaiyanbro will fight to the bitter end


Until what Jugo does is called Senjutsu, it can't be called it. Especially since Jugo doesn't display any of the traits of a Senjutsu user when he uses his Senninka.


----------



## ch1p (Sep 18, 2013)

Sifus said:


> Well Juugo is seen in the Susano'o and Sasuke chose to bring him instead of Oro or Suigetsu so I'm 100% sure my theory is right.



Could be, if its confirmed. Until then though, I'm baffled how this even took place.


----------



## BlinkST (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Until what Jugo does is called Senjutsu, it can't be called it. Especially since Jugo doesn't display any of the traits of a Senjutsu user when he uses his Senninka.




We get it, supersaiyanbro


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

BlinkST said:


> We get it, supersaiyanbro


Mistranslation. Senninka isn't Sage Chakra.


----------



## Sifus (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Mistranslation. Senninka isn't Sage Chakra.



BlinkST is always in the Viz translation thread posting Viz translations.  

His word>Your fanboyism


----------



## ch1p (Sep 18, 2013)

NarutoShion4ever said:


> How could Tobirama cut a branch with a suiton? How could Hiruzen break a branch with an Enma transformed into a staff?
> 
> Let's assume that the chakra absorption isn't conveniently turned off...then the chakra won't get absorbed as long as it travels faster than the rate of absorption of the tree.



I'm not saying those things made sense. This is a Sasuke thread though, why would I mention that?

Ehr, then that should be explained, which is my point. As it stands, rules are being contradicted. And it can't be about rates, otherwise Sakura punching the tree would have been used a long time ago. There is nobody in that battlefield that can deliver huge amounts of chakra faster than her and Tsunade. That's how their super strenght works, unless Kishi forgot.


----------



## NarutoShion4ever (Sep 18, 2013)

ch1p said:


> I'm not saying those things made sense. This is a Sasuke thread though, why would I mention that?
> 
> Ehr, then that should be explained, which is my point. As it stands, rules are being contradicted. And it can't be about rates, otherwise Sakura punching the tree would have been used a long time ago. There is nobody in that battlefield that can deliver huge amounts of chakra faster than those two. That's how their super strenght works, unless Kishi forgot.




I mentioned it, because it relevant in trying to explain how Sasuke did it.

Because any explanation has to be able to explain all three situations.

I agree that it should be explained. But it seems Kishimoto stopped caring about that. Plot is a boring reason, so any fanon reason we can come up with is at least something.

As for Sakura...that depends on whether Kishimoto allows her to do something again.


----------



## BlinkST (Sep 18, 2013)

Okay so,  = Sage transformation? 

Let me help you out, Supersaiyanbro 




We can also go character-by-character. 

="Sennin"/Sage
=Change


Help us out here


----------



## Klue (Sep 18, 2013)

NarutoShion4ever said:


> Kurama's chakra is not a quality booster. Kurama's chakra is of higher quality and thus provides a *stat boost* to all jutsu.
> 
> Susanoo is a jutsu.
> 
> ...




Perspective speaking, it is a quality booster. Regardless, we're saying the exact same thing.

Jutsu are more powerful when Kurama's chakra is involved.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

You do  realize that is just Sage Transformation or Senninka right? Not Sage Mode, nor access to Sage Chakra which only happens WITHIN Sage Mode, right?

And Sifus, I've been doing other things.



Sifus said:


> BlinkST is always in the Viz translation thread posting Viz translations.
> 
> His word>Your fanboyism


Viz isn't always a perfect translation Sifus. Have you ever talked with translators like ShonenSuki? Or gone through the process of how thigns are classified on Narutopedia? Senninka isn't Senjutsu according to those translations which are the most accurate.


----------



## Klue (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> You do  realize that is just Sage Transformation or Senninka right? Not Sage Mode, nor access to Sage Chakra which only happens WITHIN Sage Mode, right?
> 
> And Sifus, I've been doing other things.
> 
> ...



You do realize that Kabuto's Sage Mode was referred to as a Sage Transformation, right?

BlinkST just posted the evidence, just now.


----------



## MS81 (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> You do  realize that is just Sage Transformation or Senninka right? Not Sage Mode, nor access to Sage Chakra which only happens WITHIN Sage Mode, right?
> 
> And Sifus, I've been doing other things.
> 
> ...



Just give it up bro... Sage transformation is the same as Sage mode dude.lol


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

Klue said:


> You do realize that Kabuto's Sage Mode was referred to as a Sage Transformation, right?
> 
> BlinkST just posted the evidence, just now.


No, Jugo referred to Kabuto's Sage Mode as Senninka since he doesn't know the difference.



MS81 said:


> Just give it up bro... Sage transformation is the same as Sage mode dude.lol


Then why doesn't it give ANY of the same abilities? Why does Senninka cause insanity? Hell, look at all the abilities Senninka does: how the FUCK is that the same as Sage Mode? Its not. Jugo just confused Sage Mode with Senninka since he doesn't know the difference.


----------



## Klue (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> No, Jugo referred to Kabuto's Sage Mode as *Senninka since he doesn't know the difference*.



Evidence that he is unaware of the difference? Do you even know what the difference is? Pretty sure the author hasn't yet revealed those details.

But your core argument is silly. Why is Sasuke including Juugo in his attack plan if Sage Chakra isn't involved?


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

Klue said:


> Evidence that he is unaware of the difference? Do you even know what the difference is? Pretty sure the author hasn't yet revealed those details.


Jugo isn't the most knowledgable guy? He's been _locked up for years and the only contact he's had has been with Kimimaro and Team Taka?_ Sage Mode gives abilities Senninka does not. And if it did, you'd expect a SAGE, like Naruto, Kabuto, or Hashirama to comment on it.


----------



## Klue (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Jugo isn't the most knowledgable guy? He's been _locked up for years and the only contact he's had has been with Kimimaro and Team Taka?_ Sage Mode gives abilities Senninka does not. And if it did, you'd expect a SAGE, like Naruto, Kabuto, or Hashirama to comment on it.



Didn't say its Sage Mode, nor did I say they are the exact same thing. However, there are definitely similarities between the two.

The key issue of dispute wonders whether or not he is using Sage Chakra. If his Sage Transformation does not generate Sage Chakra, then why is he attacking along with Sasuke?

Why would Sasuke attack at all?


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

Klue said:


> Didn't say its Sage Mode, nor did I say they are the exact same thing. We're know that there are similarities between the two.
> 
> The key issue of dispute wonders whether or not he is using Sage Chakra. If he his Sage Transformation does not generate Sage Chakra, then why is he attacking along with Sasuke?
> 
> Why would Sasuke attack at all?


He's a convenient meat shield, that's why. Sage Transformation doesn't generate, as of this point, Sage Chakra. Jugo can't balance the natural energy so he can't create the Sage Chakra. To create Sage Chakra, Natural, Physical, and Mental energy all need to be combined in a body strong enough to bear it with a massive chakra reserve behind it. Jugo has a strong chakra, but from his rages it seems he isn't able to balance the three energies.


----------



## Grendel (Sep 18, 2013)

Klue said:


> Didn't say its Sage Mode, nor did I say they are the exact same thing. However, there are definitely similarities between the two.
> 
> The key issue of dispute wonders whether or not he is using Sage Chakra. If his Sage Transformation does not generate Sage Chakra, then why is he attacking along with Sasuke?
> 
> Why would Sasuke attack at all?



Not saying you're wrong but using that logic why would tobriama or hiruzen have attacked either?  

Not to mention sasuke just witnessed the tree being cut without senjutsu...but again not commenting on juugo and sage powers...


----------



## Klue (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> He's a convenient meat shield, that's why.



There is no way you actually believe this nonsense. 



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Sage Transformation doesn't generate, as of this point, Sage Chakra. Jugo can't balance the natural energy so he can't create the Sage Chakra. To create Sage Chakra, Natural, Physical, and Mental energy all need to be combined in a body strong enough to bear it with a massive chakra reserve behind it. Jugo has a strong chakra, but from his rages it seems he isn't able to balance the three energies.



Then what is this transformation doing to his chakra? Cee stated that his chakra quality/strength went through the roof along with his physical change.

How is it that all of these facts are true if he isn't generating Sage Chakra?

And I'll ask you again, and I hope to see a serious answer: "Why is he attacking along with Sasuke, knowing that only Senjutsu (Techs composed of Nature Power) are the only means to harming Obito?"

Not calling his power Sage Mode, but all facts point to the likelihood that his Sage Transformation also generates Sage Chakra like Sage Mode.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

Klue said:


> Then what is this transformation doing to his chakra? Cee stated that his chakra quality/strength went through the roof along with his physical change.
> 
> How is it that all of these facts are true if he isn't generating Sage Chakra?
> 
> ...


The transformation is making his chakra stronger. However, the unbalanced energies causes Jugo's mind to fracture. 

Sasuke probably thinks that Jugo is using something similar to Senjutsu, nothing more. 

Sage Chakra can only be used within Sage Mode, Klue. All three energies have to be _balanced_, otherwise the nothing happens if too little is taken in, or too much you turn to stone/go crazy like Jugo does.


----------



## HoriMaori (Sep 18, 2013)

If a Suiton can cut it, an EMS Susano'o would tune it up


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

Sasuke doesn't know the specifics on how Senjutsu is created as well, Sifus, Klue. He doesn't even know how it works. He just remembers Kabuto incorporating Jugo's cells into him to passively absorb natural energy which lead to his Sage Mode.


----------



## Klue (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> The transformation is making his chakra stronger. However, the unbalanced energies causes Jugo's mind to fracture.
> 
> Sasuke probably thinks that Jugo is using something similar to Senjutsu, nothing more.
> 
> Sage Chakra can only be used within Sage Mode, Klue. All three energies have to be _balanced_, otherwise the nothing happens if too little is taken in, or too much you turn to stone/go crazy like Jugo does.



How is it that Juugo's chakra is stronger, if he isn't making Sage Chakra?

During his transformation, his body contains Chakra and Nature's Power. You're telling me, that his chakra magically became stronger due to the presence of nature, but without actually integrating with it?


----------



## MS81 (Sep 18, 2013)

he balance the sage chakra by manipulating the shape of his body with it bro...


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

Klue said:


> How is it that Juugo's chakra is stronger, if he isn't making Sage Chakra?
> 
> During his transformation, his body contains Chakra and Nature's Power. You're telling me, that his chakra magically became stronger due to the presence of nature, but without actually integrating with it?


His power increases since he takes in too much natural energy, but he doesn't turn to stone. Klue, you know how Senjutsu chakra is made. Why even claim Jugo can do it?


MS81 said:


> he balance the sage chakra by manipulating the shape of his body with it bro...


If he could balance all three energies: HE WOULDN'T GO INSANE.

I'll gladly admit I'm wrong if Naruto goes 'Wow, no wonder you brought him alone he can use Sage Chakra!'


----------



## Klue (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> His power increases since he takes in too much natural energy



Another attempt to dodge the question. How is his chakra becoming stronger without mixing with Nature's power?



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> but he doesn't turn to stone. Klue, you know how Senjutsu chakra is made. Why even claim Jugo can do it?




Attacking Obito without Sage Chakra is useless.
Naruto was called an idiot for forgetting this fact.
Sasuke is preparing to fight Obito along side Juugo and a Sage Mode user.

Come on.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

Klue said:


> Another attempt to dodge the question. How is his chakra becoming stronger without mixing with Nature's power?


Except he isn't 'mixing' Nature's power. He's taking in too much which overpowers his physical and mental energies.



> Attacking Obito without Sage Chakra is useless.
> Naruto was called an idiot for forgetting this fact.
> Sasuke is preparing to fight Obito along side Juugo and a Sage Mode user.
> 
> Come on.


All this is showing is Sasuke _THINKS_ Jugo can use Sage Chakra despite evidence to the contrary.


----------



## BlinkST (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Except he isn't 'mixing' Nature's power. He's taking in too much which overpowers his physical and mental energies.




You're right. This has absolutely _*nothing *_to do with the explanations we were already given


----------



## ShadowReij (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Except he isn't 'mixing' Nature's power. He's taking in too much which overpowers his physical and mental energies.
> 
> 
> All this is showing is Sasuke _THINKS_ Jugo can use Sage Chakra despite evidence to the contrary.



No no Juugo has Sage Chakra, hence the transformation he just can't control it.As shown above me. Don't see why you're denying this so much but carry on.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

Hey BlinkST, why not show where the BALANCE part of the Sage Chakra comes from? I know you defend this so much since you want Sasuke to get Sage Mode too.


----------



## BlinkST (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Hey BlinkST, why not show where the BALANCE part of the Sage Chakra comes from? I know you defend this so much since you want Sasuke to get Sage Mode too.


Because Jiraiya with his unbalanced chakra, was _*never *_able to use Sage jutsu


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

BlinkST said:


> Because Jiraiya with his unbalanced chakra, was _*never *_able to use Sage jutsu


Jiraiya DID balance it. He wouldn't be able to enter Sage Mode if he didn't. The manga makes it clear Sage Chakra can only be used if all three energies are balanced.


----------



## BlinkST (Sep 18, 2013)

So you're saying Jiraiya was able to use Sage Jutsu, even though his energies were not balanced in a 33% basis?


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

Fukasaku: Its all about balance. Spiritual Energy, Physical Energy, and Natural Energy. *If you don't have em perfectly balanced you can't create the Sage Chakra!*

Fukasaku: To tell you the truth, not even Jiraiya got it perfect. He'd turn a little bit into a frog when he *formed the Sage Chakra*, but he was still able to do it.


----------



## BlinkST (Sep 18, 2013)

So what caused Jiraiya to transform into a toad?


----------



## Klue (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Fukasaku: Its all about balance. Spiritual Energy, Physical Energy, and Natural Energy. *If you don't have em perfectly balanced you can't create the Sage Chakra!*



Did you actually read what you just posted?


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

BlinkST said:


> So what caused Jiraiya to transform into a toad?


Since he hadn't done it perfectly. But Fukasaku says clearly he was able to create the Sage Chakra. Unlike Jugo. There are imperfect (like Jiraiya) and perfect (like Naruto, Hashirama, and Kabuto) Sages, BlinkST. 



Klue said:


> Did you actually read what you just posted?


You do realize that 'If there's too much' applies to Jugo, right?


----------



## BlinkST (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Since he hadn't done it perfectly. But Fukasaku says clearly he was able to create the Sage Chakra. Unlike Jugo.


But the toad said you can only generate chakra if you do it perfectly


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

BlinkST said:


> But the toad said you can only generate chakra if you do it perfectly


Fukasaku also said Jiraiya was able to do it despite it not being perfect. There are imperfect and perfect Sages, BlinkST. 

Jugo isn't even an Imperfect Sage, he takes in far too much natural energy and his mind goes wild and he rages like the Jyubi.


----------



## Klue (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Jugo isn't even an Imperfect Sage, he takes in far too much natural energy and his mind goes wild and he rages like the Jyubi.



What part of this explanation permits Juugo from using Sage Chakra. And again, how is it that his chakra grows stronger after absorbing nature's power?



Unlike Naruto and Jiraiya's Sage training, nature's power doesn't turn him into a frog when he is overwhelmed. So what's happening instead? He probably create Sage Chakra, transforms as a result of nature's power and goes into a frenzy.

The fact that Sasuke is fighting alongside him now only further diminishes your argument.


----------



## BlinkST (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Jugo isn't even an Imperfect Sage, he takes in far too much natural energy and his mind goes wild and he rages like the Jyubi.


That has more to do with how Jugo's dna reacts to nature, rather than a trait of the energy itself, since he would have just _turned into a toad statue_ by now 

So are you saying the 10 tails does not use Sage jutsu?


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

BlinkST said:


> That has more to do with how Jugo's dna reacts to, rather than a trait of the energy itself, since he would have just turned into a toad by now
> 
> So are you saying the 10 tails does not use Sage jutsu?


You guys really are annoying. You make assumptions on Jugo without actual solid evidence, without ANY of the ACTUAL FUCKING SAGES calling what Jugo does Senjutsu, and even start pickign apart what the manga says on how Sage Chakra is even MADE.


----------



## BlinkST (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> You guys really are annoying. You make assumptions on Jugo without actual solid evidence, without ANY of the ACTUAL FUCKING SAGES calling what Jugo does Senjutsu, and even start pickign apart what the manga says on how Sage Chakra is even MADE.


You just said unbalanced Sage chakra turns people into *statues*, so if Jugo's chakra is _*significantly unbalanced*_, why is he not a *statue*, and how does his chakra experience a massive jump in *power?*


----------



## Klue (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> You guys really are annoying. You make assumptions on Jugo without actual solid evidence, without ANY of the ACTUAL FUCKING SAGES calling what Jugo does Senjutsu, and even start pickign apart what the manga says on how Sage Chakra is even MADE.



Manga provides no details behind the inner workings of Juugo's power. We're only told that he absorbs nature's energy, and undergoes a transformation he can't control.

There are hints/evidence that he is using Sage Chakra, of which we have already provided you.



BlinkST said:


> You just said unbalanced Sage chakra turns people into *statues*, so if Jugo's chakra is _*significantly unbalanced*_, why is he not a *statue*, and how does his chakra experience a massive jump in *power?*



More reason why he should be wary of using Naruto/Jiraiya's Sage Training as the key component for forming his argument.

Juugo's power and Sage Mode are similar as well as different. There is no conclusive evidence detailing the state of Juugo's chakra during a transformation - but according to Fukasaku's Sage Mode logic, he shouldn't be alive right now.


----------



## BlinkST (Sep 18, 2013)

Orochimaru says Jugo has Sage power? Mistranslation. 

Jugo says Kabuto and him are using Sage transformation, and he knows about Sage chakra? Jugo doesn't know what he's talking about


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

BlinkST said:


> Orochimaru says Jugo has Sage power? Mistranslation.
> 
> Jugo says Kabuto and him are using Sage transformation, and he knows about Sage chakra? Jugo doesn't know what he's talking about


Except Kabuto explicitly uses Sage Mode. Jugo doesn't know of Sage Mode. 

Why don't you take it up with the people on Narutopedia who classify these things?


----------



## BlinkST (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Except Kabuto explicitly uses Sage Mode. Jugo doesn't know of Sage Mode.


Jugo knows of _Sage_ chakra, which as you've said, is a result of _Sage_ mode, which is known as _'Sage transformation'_ in his village. Orochimaru not _correcting_ him suggests he knows plenty


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

Can we just wait till next week in case Jugo does or does not have Senjutsu. We have an actual Sage there who can comment.


----------



## BlinkST (Sep 18, 2013)

Why would Orochimaru say Jugo has "Sage" power if he's not an actual Sage?


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 18, 2013)

BlinkST said:


> Why would Orochimaru say Jugo has "Sage" power if he's not an actual Sage?


Since he isn't. Orochimaru likes mocking his subordinates. BlinkST, stop being a jerk. Jugo isn't a Sage Chakra user until someone who ACTUALLY USES IT calls him one. Orochimaru isn't a Sage.


----------



## Klue (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Since he isn't. Orochimaru likes mocking his subordinates. BlinkST, stop being a jerk. Jugo isn't a Sage Chakra user until someone who ACTUALLY USES IT calls him one. Orochimaru isn't a Sage.



Orochimaru wasn't mocking Juugo, he was telling him to use his power into Sasuke to release Zetsu. 

Only a Sage can confirm the Sage-hood of another Sage? 

Orochimaru creates Sage Chakra but isn't a Sage? By your own accounts, he should be. 

Juugo possess a Sage Transformation and uses Sage Power. These two ideas are fact. 

Stop bull shitting.


----------



## BlinkST (Sep 18, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Since he isn't. Orochimaru likes mocking his subordinates.


Where in that scenario did Orochimaru "mock" the people that helped him get his jutsu back, and why did _*Zetsu *_respond if Jugo didn't use Sage chakra?  



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Jugo isn't a Sage Chakra user until someone who ACTUALLY USES IT calls him one. Orochimaru isn't a Sage.


Yeah, Orochimaru didn't fill his *Curse marks* with Sage chakra, which was never absorbed by Kabuto and made his Edotensei binding *more powerful*


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 19, 2013)

Just wait until next week. Jugo doesn't show the traits of using Sage Chakra, and we have two Senjutsu users here.


----------



## Tony Lou (Sep 19, 2013)

The godtree isn't a threat because it's undestructible, but because it regenerates and absorbs chakra.

Tobirama was able cut its branches with Suiton last chapter. Sasuke wouldn't have needed a power boost to slice through it with Susano.


----------



## John Connor (Sep 19, 2013)

Luiz said:


> The godtree isn't a threat because it's undestructible, but because it regenerates and absorbs chakra.
> 
> Tobirama was able cut its branches with Suiton last chapter. Sasuke wouldn't have needed a power boost to slice through it with Susano.


Sasuke could cut a huge chunk out of the tree without even needing Susano

Chidori attacks > Mokuton defense


----------



## Seon (Sep 19, 2013)

Curse seal is related to sage mode. Snake sage mode at least. Jugo has the enzyme to create the curse seal effect. Put two and two together.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 19, 2013)

Seon said:


> Curse seal is related to sage mode. Snake sage mode at least. Jugo has the enzyme to create the curse seal effect. Put two and two together.


The Cursed Seal itself isn't a Sage Mode, not even a 'Toad Oil' Sage Mode Seon. Jugo doesn't balance the natural energy with his own chakra, its why he goes into rages. Kabuto integrated Jugo's enzyme so he could passively absorb Natural Chakra while moving so he could stay in Sage Mode indefinitely (no time limit like Naruto and Hashirama). 

Even consulting with Ten-Tailed Fox on the subject on Narutopedia said that Jugo isn't a Sage or a Senjutsu user since he doesn't balance the three energies.


----------



## Krippy (Sep 19, 2013)

Klue said:


> Exactly!
> 
> I'm not saying it's impossible, maybe Naruto/Kurama's power was the key which allowed him to further materialize the Susanoo. But we are lacking quite a bit of information, thus its best to rely on what we do know:
> 
> ...



I agree. It's pointless to argue though, Sasuke will be able to do perform this feat on his own even if the cloak actually did assist him.



Big Bad Wolf said:


> except Sasuke would never openly acknowledge that out loud if that was in fact the case.



Kishi would make it clear just like he did with Kakashi and Hinata.


don't compare a rookie MS Sasuke's Susano'o to his current one's size and expect there not to be a size diffrance. 

What's this about Juugo not being a natural energy user?


----------



## Klue (Sep 19, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> The Cursed Seal itself isn't a Sage Mode, not even a 'Toad Oil' Sage Mode Seon. Jugo doesn't balance the natural energy with his own chakra, its why he goes into rages. Kabuto integrated Jugo's enzyme so he could passively absorb Natural Chakra while moving so he could stay in Sage Mode indefinitely (no time limit like Naruto and Hashirama).
> 
> Even consulting with Ten-Tailed Fox on the subject on Narutopedia said that Jugo isn't a Sage or a Senjutsu user since he doesn't balance the three energies.



Wikipedia is a fan managed site. 

The relationship between Juugo's internal energies and nature was never explained in the manga.



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> No, I won't. It'll be an awesome chapter either way. But I mean come on, we know how Senjutsu works and what Jugo does is different than it Sifus. Is it too hard to wait for more confirmation?



Yeah, we do know how it works. According to Fukasaku, Juugo should have turned to stone - there are details of Toad Sage training that don't apply to Juugo's ability, clearly.


----------



## Rai (Sep 19, 2013)

Not bad, but still not enough for Madara to gives a shit about him.


----------



## Csdabest (Sep 19, 2013)

Kishi stated in the Manga that Juugo power is sennin transformation within his clan just like Kabuto. That only in his clones that its called Curse Seal.

So until further notice. Juugo power is Sage Transformation meaning he has Sage Chakra and he Is a Sage. Just because his mode is different doesnt take away from the fact that it was stated in the manga,



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> The Cursed Seal itself isn't a Sage Mode, not even a 'Toad Oil' Sage Mode Seon. Jugo doesn't balance the natural energy with his own chakra, its why he goes into rages. Kabuto integrated Jugo's enzyme so he could passively absorb Natural Chakra while moving so he could stay in Sage Mode indefinitely (no time limit like Naruto and Hashirama).
> 
> Even consulting with Ten-Tailed Fox on the subject on Narutopedia said that Jugo isn't a Sage or a Senjutsu user since he doesn't balance the three energies.



Lies. Juugo doesn't go crazy because of an imbalance its because of the actual ability that draws In Natural Energy and gives them perfect control over it. Just when they transform they go hay wire. The transformation was enough to make Juugo who is a nobody rate High on Ci and Raikage threat level. 

The Manga never even stated was specifically causes the wild out rage. It simply says Orochimaru was only interested in the Origin of Uuugo power and not why it causes the outrages.


----------



## Overhaul (Sep 19, 2013)

Sasuke went ham on dat fucking tree!


----------



## hokage5522 (Sep 19, 2013)

Jikayaki said:


> It's not the same. Some parts of various fandoms didn't like how Sasuke got power-ups either handed to him to some degree or didn't really require much training. Naruto so far hasn't gotten anything that isn't based on previous training. Only the bijuu power-up that's coming, if anything will come from the bijuu fist bump, will be something similar.



Can someone please explain how in the hell you can train ocular powers that are one shot kill justsu. The fact is sasuke....is a uchiha and they recieve these eye powers as there battle evperience increases...thats how it works. Sasuke cant do eye push ups or something. The fans just use that as a reason to hate on sasuke, Besides we all know naruto was given the kyuubi without any traning when he was just a baby(why is that ok but sasuke attaining his power thur his eyes isnt) i mean look at itachi he is one of the most powerful and well loved characters in naruto and we never got a look at him really training, certainly not enought to justify his powers(sausano yata shield etc) The fact is you really cant show ocular training outside of actually useing it, which kish did(kage summit,danzo fight) The same way that itachi has his powers and gets a pass should be the same for sasuke...sadly it wont.


----------



## Raiken (Sep 19, 2013)

Do you realise how big the Shinju is, Sasuke basically clipped it's little finger nail, if that.


----------



## titantron91 (Sep 20, 2013)

Cryorex said:


> Do you realise how big the Shinju is, Sasuke basically clipped it's little finger nail, if that.



Yeah... the fingernail that had the whole alliance scared shitless.

That fingernail which is basically 100 times bigger than the wood tendril that posterboy Tobirama cut.

That fingernail that got cut by Sasuke's Susanoo, which is dubbed utterly weak by majority of NF.


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Sep 20, 2013)

Klue said:


> Yeah, we do know how it works. According to Fukasaku, Juugo should have turned to stone - there are details of Toad Sage training that don't apply to Juugo's ability, clearly.



Possibly Juugo's cells don't allow him to turn into stone?  Or Turrin's theory of each SM place takes natural energy via different means holds some water. 



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Just wait until next week. Jugo doesn't show the traits of using Sage Chakra, and we have two Senjutsu users here.



Sage chakra is also the Curse Seal chakra. Albeit the latter is weaker than the former. 
If Juugo doesn't use sage chakra, then why would his power trace back to Ryuchidou?

Also it begs to question, if Juugo is incapable of using any Sennin power, why would Sasuke take Juugo with him to attack Juubito, knowing that only Senjutsu enhanced attacks will work? The answer is obvious, Juugo uses sage chakra. We can obviously say the Curse Seal is just a weak Sage Mode going by Juugo, though it becomes debatable when talking about Juugo's power. If the Curse Mark masters really are copies of Juugo, he'll be able to only harness the weak SM because he can't control natural energy. But you can also argue (not so strongly, however) that his sage chakra is stronger than CS users as he's the original.

Either way, no matter how you slice it Juugo is capable of using Sennin chakra and that is why Sasuke took him along. Pair that with all the talk we got about Sasuke being compatible with Juugo's DNA.


----------



## DeK3iDE (Sep 20, 2013)

titantron91 said:


> Yeah... the fingernail that had the whole alliance scared shitless.
> 
> *That fingernail which is basically 100 times bigger than the wood tendril that posterboy Tobirama cut.
> 
> That fingernail that got cut by Sasuke's Susanoo, which is dubbed utterly weak by majority of NF.*


for the life of me I'll never understand NF's logic concerning something Tobirama does v. something another person does, especially when the other person has done it to a better degree


----------



## Scarlet Ammo (Sep 20, 2013)

I recall going "holy sheeeep" when I saw Sasuke in that panel.


----------



## Hiko Seijurou (Sep 20, 2013)

I laughed at the title. I thought OP was a frustrated Sasuke hater.


----------



## Raiden (Sep 21, 2013)

No idea why you guys thought Sasuke would just fade and become fodder.


----------



## DeK3iDE (Sep 21, 2013)

Black Banana said:


> No idea why you guys thought Sasuke would just fade and become fodder.


because everyone that hates Sasuke have long awaited the moment to have their "i told you so" moment


----------



## Chaos Hokage (Sep 21, 2013)

I'm not really surprise about Sasuke being able to cut the tree with his Susanno. After all he's one of the powerhouses in the battlefield.


----------



## PopoTime (Sep 21, 2013)

Lets be honest, Sasuke is still a few tiers from current naruto.

He needs more independent (i,e no Kurama cloak) feats for that to change.

Im guessing a few will come up.






Also, that was pure BS that Sasuke's chakra construct (susan'oo) wasnt absorbed instantly like BSM Naruto's chakra construct (Bijuu mode)


----------



## Klue (Sep 21, 2013)

PopoTime said:


> Also, that was pure BS that Sasuke's chakra construct (susan'oo) wasnt absorbed instantly like BSM Naruto's chakra construct (Bijuu mode)



Maybe the ability needs to be activated by the Tree/Obito consciously. Hashirama's wood release (Wood Dragon), as well as his living clones (Zetsu), also share this ability - it doesn't always work either.


----------



## Csdabest (Sep 21, 2013)

titantron91 said:


> Yeah... the fingernail that had the whole alliance scared shitless.
> 
> That fingernail which is basically 100 times bigger than the wood tendril that posterboy Tobirama cut.
> 
> That fingernail that got cut by Sasuke's Susanoo, which is dubbed utterly weak by majority of NF.



I bet if you go back to that Tobirama Suiton jutsu strength thread. I bet you will find over half fo the people in this thread sucking Tobirama off while hating Sasuke for do something on a larger scale. it really does makes no sense what so ever


----------



## lathia (Sep 21, 2013)

Klue said:


> Maybe the ability needs to be activated by the Tree/Obito consciously. Hashirama's wood release (Wood Dragon), as well as his living clones (Zetsu), also share this ability - it doesn't always work either.



Klue stahp. The tree was aiming to siphon the alliance's chakra. It's the same reason as to why Samehada became utterly useless after Kisame died and Bee took over. Plot.


----------



## SharkBomb 4 (Sep 21, 2013)

lathia said:


> Klue stahp. The tree was aiming to siphon the alliance's chakra. It's the same reason as to why Samehada became utterly useless after Kisame died and Bee took over. Plot.



No, it's just that Bee doesn't have the same level of skill or imagination when using the weapon. He uses the thing to hold his freaking swords, he's clearly not on the level of Kisame when it comes to this weapon.


----------



## Klue (Sep 21, 2013)

lathia said:


> Klue stahp. The tree was aiming to siphon the alliance's chakra. It's the same reason as to why Samehada became utterly useless after Kisame died and Bee took over. Plot.



Not denying its intent. I'm saying that it wasn't actively absorbing chakra at that moment in time. It's not as if it had a chance to capture anyone. 

Sasuke cut it down before it could cause harm.

There isn't this invisible chakra absorption field that surrounds it at all times.


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Sep 21, 2013)

PopoTime said:


> Lets be honest, Sasuke is still a few tiers from current naruto.
> 
> He needs more independent (i,e no Kurama cloak) feats for that to change.


I think you are underestimating the significance of a side by side comparison.

Sasuke matching Naruto feat for feat in the KCM stage was enough to arbitrate equality. Similarly, Sasuke merely needs to match current Naruto's output and prove to be capable of mimicking the same "current" performance outside of the cloak.


----------



## Csdabest (Sep 21, 2013)

BlinkST said:


> Jugo knows of _Sage_ chakra, which as you've said, is a result of _Sage_ mode, which is known as _'Sage transformation'_ in his village. Orochimaru not _correcting_ him suggests he knows plenty



Dude not to mention that Juugo was also capable of seeing what Orochimaru was doing. Taking his Chakra back and even being able to see the Sage Chakra. Juugo was able to identify Kabuto as aSage Mode user without anyone telling him. Yet doubters gonna doubt smh


----------



## Canuckgirl (Sep 21, 2013)

ChickenPotPie said:


> OMG SASUKE IS CHEATING USING KYUUBI CHAKRA UNLIKE NARUTO
> 
> 
> oh wait


 Bitch please, the Sharigan is a cheat code inasmuch



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> ...its blatant you're just ignoring that Naruto powered Sasuke up IDontHateYou. He only did the feat in the first place due to Naruto's V1 Cloak around him. Its no different than Hinata deflecting a Jyubi Tail with a single Hakke Kusho after getting the same power up.


mThis



IDontHateYou said:


> Im tired of the "it was Naruto's chakra argument".
> 
> Cmon guys, Naruto is special just because he's a senju/uzumaki, the same way Sasuke is special because he is a Uchia.
> 
> ...





SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Hashirama actually said Naruto _alone_ has chakra comparable or equal to him, Kurama's made it much larger.
> 
> EMS allows Sasuke to use his Mangekyo Techniques without cost, it doesn't mean his chakra levels increased. Not even close.





IDontHateYou said:


> Naruto has chakra comparable to Hashirama with the Kyuubi.
> 
> Hashirama has chakra comparable to Hashirama with NO KYUUBI needed.
> There's a vast difference in power between hashirama and Naruto is take Kyuubi out of the equation.
> ...


I love how you conveniently forget that the cloak is made more of Naruto's chakra than strictly Kyuubi
[sp=Tag over-sized images][/sp] Even Hashirama commented on it



IpHr0z3nI said:


> I think you are underestimating the significance of a side by side comparison.
> 
> Sasuke matching Naruto feat for feat in the KCM stage was enough to arbitrate equality. Similarly, Sasuke merely needs to match current Naruto's output and prove to be capable of mimicking the same "current" performance outside of the cloak.



Let's not forget that Naruto is at 50% of his full power


----------



## Raiden (Sep 21, 2013)

But also that it's pointless to argue who will be ahead once this is over. They'll be neck and neck...somehow.


----------



## Csdabest (Sep 21, 2013)

Canuckgirl said:


> Let's not forget that Naruto is at 50% of his full power



Lets not forget that Sasuke still has Perfect Susano-o possible senju DNA Rinnegan power up and Sage Mode.


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Sep 21, 2013)

Canuckgirl said:


> Let's not forget that Naruto is at 50% of his full power


And Sasuke's just getting "started"

What he currently has access too, isn't a Perfect Susano'o.


----------



## Klue (Sep 21, 2013)

PS Sasuke matches BM+SM Naruto.

Forum rages.


----------



## ueharakk (Sep 21, 2013)

Klue said:


> PS Sasuke matches BM+SM Naruto.
> 
> Forum rages.



don't lump us all together.


----------



## Raiken (Sep 22, 2013)

Naruto and Sasuke scaling is a bit of a delicate situation at the moment.
If Kishi has Naruto getting all these new power ups one after the other for quite a while now.
While Sasuke is still just using EMS, a power up gained around the same time Naruto gained KCM1.
2/3 of the Forum will be on a mega rage rant, if EMS Sasuke = KCM2+SM Naruto.

But I very much doubt that'll be the case.
The unrefined Chakra Boost powered up Kakashi's Kamui 3x normal, since then, it's became more powerful, a fully fledged Chakra Cloak, and powered up by Minato's Kyuubi as well. Probably around a 6x Boost at least, probably more.
However Kakashi's Base Chakra is likely a lot lower than Sasukes, so it may be a smaller boost to Sasuke, than it is to Kakashi, but still, it should be a massive boost in Power.

All feats in regards to the category of: *Power*, *Size* and *Stamina*, while under the influence of the Chakra Cloak, can not be attributed towards EMS Sasuke.
I will agree however that the ability to give his Susano'o legs is an EMS Feat. 

Scalling currently:
Base Naruto = 3TS Sasuke
SM Naruto < EMS Sasuke
KCM1 Naruto = EMS Sasuke
KCM2 Naruto >>> EMS Sasuke
KCM2 Naruto ? EMS+Chakra Cloak Sasuke
KCM2+SM ? EMS+Chakra Cloak Sasuke

But the fact is: *Sasuke needed the Chakra Cloak to be able to support Naruto on a comparable level.*


----------



## Csdabest (Sep 22, 2013)

Cryorex said:


> Naruto and Sasuke scaling is a bit of a delicate situation at the moment.
> If Kishi has Naruto getting all these new power ups one after the other for quite a while now.
> While Sasuke is still just using EMS, a power up gained around the same time Naruto gained KCM1.
> 2/3 of the Forum will be on a mega rage rant, if EMS Sasuke = KCM2+SM Naruto.
> ...



Explain how Regular Complete Susano-o w/ Legs iis anymore straining than Stage 3 or even Stage 4 Susano-o equipped with gangster ass bow and giant enton orb. The Math just doesn't add up man.

And EMS Chakra CLoak Sasuke is right now being shown to be on par w. Bijuu Sage Mode Naruto. in the ending side by side panel.


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## Addy (Sep 22, 2013)

i am wondering since sasuke's has legs now.......... will it ride naruto's BSM like a horse and charge while madara and hashirama facepalm?


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 22, 2013)

Klue said:


> PS Sasuke matches BM+SM Naruto.
> 
> Forum rages.


Only if he gains some destructive feats comparable. As of now, even PS Sasuke is woefully underpowered compared to Senjutsu enhanced Bijudamas that are strong enough to hurt Juubito and sink islands and raze countries.

Hell, their current benchmarks are EMS Madara (for Sasuke) and SM Hashirama (for Naruto). EMS Madara had to get Kurama _himself_ to equal Hashirama's power, Perfect Susano'o isn't enough. Naruto's already on the same level, if not fully surpassed Hashirama with Biju Sage Mode-the only way Sasuke to get on the same level is reaching the Rinnegan.


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## Raiken (Sep 22, 2013)

Csdabest said:


> Explain how Regular Complete Susano-o w/ Legs iis anymore straining than Stage 3 or even Stage 4 Susano-o equipped with gangster ass bow and giant enton orb. The Math just doesn't add up man.


What are you getting at, what did I say that made you say this?
Because you think that what he's done so far with Chakra Cloak, EMS Sasuke without the Cloak is capable of?
In regards to the Susano'o type its self, sure I agree, Complete Susano'o + Legs is an EMS feat. But there are some differences:

Look at how far the force from his blade slash extended past the length of the actual blade, that's some powerful Chakra, Sasuke has never displayed such a feat in the past. Against the Juubi spawn, he cut it in half proportionate to the length of the blade.

Also the fact that his Susano'o in general, is bigger than normal:
Compare the size of Sasuke to his Complete Susano'os head:


By the look of it, his Complete Susano'o is roughly 2x bigger than normal + Legs.
The legs can be attributed to EMS, but the size increase can't be attributed to Sasuke himself yet, because he performed it with the Chakra Cloak.


> And EMS Chakra Cloak Sasuke is right now being shown to be on par w. Bijuu Sage Mode Naruto. in the ending side by side panel.


It's yet to be seen if they'll be equal, we'll wait for next Chapter on Tuesday or Wednesday to judge that.



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> EMS Madara had to get Kurama _himself_ to equal Hashirama's power, Perfect Susano'o isn't enough. Naruto's already on the same level, if not fully surpassed Hashirama with Biju Sage Mode-the only way Sasuke to get on the same level is reaching the Rinnegan.


I think the Rinnegan and Senju Body of Madara's, make up for the lack of the Kyuubi.
In my oppnion: Rinnegan/Senju Body Madara = EMS+Kyuubi Madara.



IpHr0z3nI said:


> I think you are underestimating the significance of a side by side comparison.
> 
> Sasuke matching Naruto feat for feat in the KCM stage was enough to arbitrate equality. Similarly, Sasuke merely needs to match current Naruto's output and *prove to be capable of mimicking the same "current" performance outside of the cloak.*


I agree, KCM1 Naruto = EMS Sasuke, but in regards to being comparable to Naruto's higher levels, the *bolded* is the important part, and it wont be shown until he looses the Chakra Cloak.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Sep 22, 2013)

Cryorex said:


> Naruto and Sasuke scaling is a bit of a delicate situation at the moment.


How so?


> If Kishi has Naruto getting all these new power ups one after the other for quite a while now.


Really? Because the person whose been ass pulling since they've arrived on the battlefield is Sasuke.

His showcasing here is a just another example of the "ASS PULLING" he's been doing since arrived on the battlefield.

Combining BM was predicted, none of Sasuke's POWER UPS WERE.

Sasuke "I'm just getting started" after two chapters ago of "of"

Note that prior to Sasuke's arrival. Naruto was going to out paste him speed wise. Sasuke would supposed to have trouble keeping up with KCM Naruto, yet he kept up beautifully. Of course Naruto fans didn't care as Naruto had a higher level form, but now we're here. 



> While Sasuke is still just using EMS, a power up gained around the same time Naruto gained KCM1.
> 2/3 of the Forum will be on a mega rage rant, if EMS Sasuke = KCM2+SM Naruto.


But he's only now started to unlock it's potential.

If EMS Sasuke = KCM2+SM Naruto, only the Naruto fans will be truly hurt. 



> But I very much doubt that'll be the case.


Well, we'll just have to see won't we.

Two things that are against you is this panel and their "earlier" pairing.

Two things that are against you is the fact that this was stopped in favor of this.



> The unrefined Chakra Boost powered up Kakashi's Kamui 3x normal, since then, it's became more powerful, a fully fledged Chakra Cloak, and powered up by Minato's Kyuubi as well. Probably around a 6x Boost at least, probably more


Are you seriously basing your argument on the chakara cloak? Do you think Kishi cares about such "things"?

Kishi didn't care about Sasuke's attitude this chapter contradicting what was demonstrated two chapters prior.



> However Kakashi's Base Chakra is likely a lot lower than Sasukes, so it may be a smaller boost to Sasuke, than it is to Kakashi, but still, it should be a massive boost in Power.


And Sasuke will likely still possess the potential for all his current and "soon to be showcasing" without Naruto's chakara.



> All feats in regards to the category of: *Power*, *Size* and *Stamina*, while under the influence of the Chakra Cloak, can not be attributed towards EMS Sasuke.


So that's your story and you're sticking to it? 

That card was played this week, and as with all things it's going to fall onto death ear overtime.



> I will agree however that the ability to give his Susano'o legs is an EMS Feat.
> 
> Scalling currently:
> Base Naruto = 3TS Sasuke
> ...


LMAO, just stop. EMS has the potential to produce a larger Susano'o than the one Sasuke is currently producing.


And where is it set in stone that Sasuke is going to be solely confined to supporting Naruto? You are aware that FRS played support to Enton, right?


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## Trent (Sep 22, 2013)

Cryorex said:


> Also the fact that his Susano'o in general, is bigger than normal:
> Compare the size of Sasuke to his Complete Susano'os head:
> 
> 
> ...



In the first, Sasuke's Susanoo is as big as.... _what it could be without* caving the ceiling of the cave they're fighting in*, to avoid burying them all_. 

You can't use the example of* an indoor Susanoo *to estimate its potential for size! 

Looking at Sasuke's size within Susanoo's Head in more recent examples on the battlefield doesn't show that big a difference.


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## ?_Camorra_? (Sep 22, 2013)

Without Naruto and Kuramas chakra Sasuke is utter Kiba level fodder lol.


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## Trent (Sep 22, 2013)

?_Camorra_? said:


> Without Naruto and Kuramas chakra Sasuke is utter Kiba level fodder lol.



Oh, come on. If you're gonna troll, at least make a proper joke with it!


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## Big Bob (Sep 22, 2013)

I think cutting a god tree is an accomplishment


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## Rain (Sep 22, 2013)

And people thought Itachi couldn't seal the fuck out of it in the gourd.


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## Deadking (Sep 22, 2013)

Will at least we know he is stronger than Itachi now


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## Raiken (Sep 22, 2013)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> LMAO, just stop. EMS has the potential to produce a larger Susano'o than the one Sasuke is currently producing.


But unfortunately for you. All feats related to: *Power*, *Size* and *Stamina*, done under the influence of the Chakra Cloak, cannot be attributed to EMS Sasuke, unless it's a feat not related to those categories, and it's absolutely clear that it's an EMS Specific feat.
For example, using Legs with Susano'o is EMS specific, and can be attributed to Sasuke.
We can say that without the Chakra Cloak he can also do that.

Once he looses the Chakra Cloak, then we'll talk.


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## Kumanri (Sep 22, 2013)

First time since Naruto series began, the fans are comparing who cuts the thicker tree. And it's related to the Sauce again. Goodness...


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## IpHr0z3nI (Sep 22, 2013)

Cryorex said:


> But unfortunately for you. All feats related to: *Power*, *Size* and *Stamina*, done under the influence of the Chakra Cloak, cannot be attributed to EMS Sasuke, unless it's a feat not related to those categories, and it's absolutely clear that it's an EMS Specific feat


Unfortunately for me, A? But you don't make the rules, Cryorex.

Unfortunately for you, "SIZE" has already been done on a larger scale by a strictly EMS user. We've seen Madara alter his size  quite frequently, and it's "power" is the product of it's size, not Naruto's cloak.

How could all the categories listed not be attributed to the EMS, seeing as it's the EMS, not Naruto's cloak, that yields the potential for Susano'o? Growing Susano'o is an EMS specific feat, as Naruto's cloak alone doesn't possess Susano'o, and we've seen an EMS produce a much larger Susano'o. Don't be silly Cryorex, we don't give Naruto's cloak credit for Kamui, and the benefits of Naruto's cloak on Sasuke is even more suspect, currently.



> For example, using Legs with Susano'o is EMS specific, and can be attributed to Sasuke.


Using Susano'o period  is a EMS SPECIFIC FEAT, as Naruto or his chakara doesn't possess EMS.



> We can say that without the Chakra Cloak he can also do that.


However, we can't say without the EMS, Naruto's chakara cloak, can manifest Susano'o. Your logic is backwards, as it's the EMS that's required to do everything Sasuke is currently doing.



> Once he looses the Chakra Cloak, then we'll talk.


No, once Sasuke proves he can't do what he's currently doing without Naruto's cloak, than YOU can talk, otherwise you're just talking nonsense.

Do you honestly expect Sasuke fans, or any fanbase outside of the Naruto crew, to wait until he loses Naruto's cloak to wank/discuss HIS POWER? Note, that the Naruto group is the only bunch who actually care about such a thing, it's not a problem for the rest of us, as many of us had him gaining access to Senju cells before being portrayed as "Current" Naruto's equal. 

PS was the solution to Naruto's raw power advantage, but Kishi did one better. He scaled Sasuke's NONE PERFECT Susano'o to the size of a Biju, and thus far, it's power, accordingly.


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## Raiken (Sep 22, 2013)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Unfortunately for you, "SIZE" has already been done on a larger scale by a strictly EMS user. We've seen Madara alter his size  quite frequently, and it's "power" is the product of it's size, not Naruto's cloak.
> 
> How could all the categories listed not be attributed to the EMS, seeing as it's the EMS, not Naruto's cloak, that yields the potential for Susano'o? Growing Susano'o is an EMS specific feat, as Naruto's cloak alone doesn't possess Susano'o, and we've seen an EMS produce a much larger Susano'o. Don't be silly Cryorex, we don't give Naruto's cloak credit for Kamui, and the benefits of Naruto's cloak on Sasuke is even more suspect, currently.
> 
> ...


You talk as if you think the Chakra Cloak will do nothing for Sasuke's powers, get real man.
It boosted an MS Jutsu, and allowed the power of that Jutsu to scale by 3x. And that is with the weakest version of the Chakra sharing so far.
A version where the Chakra was so much weaker, it didn't take form. Comparable to Naruto's old Initial Mode.
And then he gave everyone V1 Cloaks, and now it's an enhanced V1 Cloak.
But instead of them, the KCM Chakra Sharing equivalents instead.

The point is, that if Sasuke makes his Susano'o really big and powerful in this fight, it can't be attributed to his own power, because he's buffed up by the Chakra Cloak.
Not until he does such things without it, can it be credited to Sasuke.

Like I said, instead of bullshitting that anything EMS related is a Sasuke feat no matter what, despite being under the influence of the Chakra Cloak.
You can wait until he doesn't have the Cloak, until then, I'm done here.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 22, 2013)

Cryorex said:


> I think the Rinnegan and Senju Body of Madara's, make up for the lack of the Kyuubi. In my oppnion: Rinnegan/Senju Body Madara = EMS+Kyuubi Madara.


Edo Madara is much stronger than EMS Madara though. Rinnegan + Mokuton + Perfect Susano'o + Edo Regeneration. He's stronger than Hashirama now too.

What I meant was for EMS Madara to reach SM Hashirama's level, he needed Kurama under his control. Naruto has combined both Kurama's insane power with Sage Mode...yet Perfect Susano'o, which is magnitudes weaker, is supposed to close the gap for Sasuke? Its why I said to close the gap, Sasuke himself will need the Rinnegan.


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## Raiken (Sep 22, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Edo Madara is much stronger than EMS Madara though. Rinnegan + Mokuton + Perfect Susano'o + Edo Regeneration. He's stronger than Hashirama now too.
> 
> What I meant was for EMS Madara to reach SM Hashirama's level, he needed Kurama under his control. Naruto has combined both Kurama's insane power with Sage Mode...yet Perfect Susano'o, which is magnitudes weaker, is supposed to close the gap for Sasuke? Its why I said to close the gap, Sasuke himself will need the Rinnegan.


I guess this is basically:
More Powerful Physical Energy, Wood Dragon, Flower Tree World, Meteors and Preta Path VS 100% Kyuubi w/ Chakra Roars, Bijuu Dama Spam and Cho-Oodama Bijuu Dama and Susano'o+100% Kyuubi Merger.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 22, 2013)

Cryorex said:


> I guess this is basically:
> More Powerful Physical Energy, Wood Dragon, Flower Tree World, Meteors and Preta Path VS 100% Kyuubi w/ Chakra Roars, Bijuu Dama Spam and Cho-Oodama Bijuu Dama and Susano'o+100% Kyuubi Merger.


Dude...my main argument was that for EMS Madara to truly reach Hashirama's level-he needed Kurama. As Edo Madara with the Rinnegan, Mokuton, and Edo Regen he already has surpassed the gap between himself and Hashirama. 

And technically, Madara can't perform Super Bijudama nor did he ever use Chakra Roars with Kurama too. Since Kurama wasn't in a Jinchuriki, his power wasn't focused.


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## Raiken (Sep 22, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And technically, Madara can't perform Super Bijudama nor did he ever use Chakra Roars with Kurama too. Since Kurama wasn't in a Jinchuriki, his power wasn't focused.


Since when? Linkkkkkkkkk!


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 22, 2013)

Cryorex said:


> Since when? Linkkkkkkkkk!


Tailed Beasts, including Kurama, are weaker without being in a Jinchuriki. This has been known since early Part II. Despite their intelligence, they cannot focus their insane power. Within a Jinchuriki, their powers are focused to a point and basically increased due to being used intelligently. The most notable example is the Juubi and Obito, remember?

As for Madara's performance with Kurama-it speaks for itself. He wasn't able to use the Super Bijudama, nor was he able to even use the roars to rebuff Hashirama's attempts.


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## egressmadara (Sep 22, 2013)

Aim for the trunk Sasuke, maybe you can chop it down and save the Shinobi World and be pardoned for your crimes for your immeasurable deed!


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## IpHr0z3nI (Sep 22, 2013)

Cryorex said:


> You talk as if you think the Chakra Cloak will do nothing for Sasuke's powers, get real man.


No, I talk as if I'm unsure of the specifics, hence I maintain my rightful position as a reader.

Note, note. That it's Cryorex whose projecting THINGS: "Power", "Size", "Chakara", that he has no evidence to support.

EMS already wields the potential for a "BIGGER SUSANO'O"

And the "POWER" demonstrated here, may simply be a product of a "BIGGER SUSANO'O"

"Chakara" wasn't an issue for EMS Sasuke, thus your use of it here, doesn't make sense.

It's not so much as whether the cloak is helping Sasuke, it wouldn't be there if it wasn't, it's your willingness to go as far as specify how, and attempt to diminish Sasuke's strength because of such.

Naruto, two chapters ago, borrowed chakara from a portion of Kurama he didn't possess. Naruto, almost a hundred chapters ago, was given chakara from other tailed beast. Naruto hasn't been playing fair for a while, hell the Uchiha's haven't been playing fair for a while, don't try to single out Sasuke, or diminish his new potential simply because of it's source.



> It boosted an MS Jutsu, and allowed the power of that Jutsu to scale by 3x. And that is with the weakest version of the Chakra sharing so far.


And such facts were never held as a ransom against a particular group.

No one ever defined Kakashi's new prowess with Kamui as a product of Naruto's cloak, right?



> A version where the Chakra was so much weaker, it didn't take form. Comparable to Naruto's old Initial Mode.


And again, the issue isn't solely about whether Naruto's cloak enhances anything, it's your unwillingness to define Sasuke's current output as a product of the EMS, as a means to diminish "Current" Sasuke's power level. 



> And then he gave everyone V1 Cloaks, and now it's an enhanced V1 Cloak.
> But instead of them, the KCM Chakra Sharing equivalents instead.


See above.



> The point is, that if Sasuke makes his Susano'o really big and powerful in this fight, it can't be attributed to his own power, because he's buffed up by the Chakra Cloak.


It can and will be attributed to his own power. Just as the Juubi, Hashirama cells/Rinnegan, the chakara of other Biju's, are attributed to Obito, Madara, and Naruto's own powers, respectively.




> Not until he does such things without it, can it be credited to Sasuke.


No, that's your stance, again.

The feat will always be accredited to Sasuke, as he is the one showcasing them. Do we strip Nagato of all of his feats because he's using Madara's eyes? No, we don't.



> Like I said, instead of bullshitting that anything EMS related is a Sasuke feat no matter what, despite being under the influence of the Chakra Cloak.


It's not bullshitting, it's telling YOU HOW IT'S GOING TO BE.

It's a Sasuke feat because he's the one doing it.
Just like Nagato's feats were his own. Juubito feats were his own. Madara's Mokuton/Rinnegan feats were his own, etc..

It's not bullshitting, it's telling YOU HOW THIS BOARD WORKS. If anything, if anything, is to be learned from the Naruto forums is that STANCES CHANGE BY THE CHAPTER. This board operates so much on the "What have you done for me lately" stance, that expecting to wait and see if Sasuke can do something impressive without Naruto's cloak, isn't going to happen.

"Current" Sasuke has Naruto's cloak aiding him, and "Current" Sasuke is the only variation of Sasuke that matters, at the moment.



> You can wait until he doesn't have the Cloak, until then, I'm done here.


No, you can wait, I'm not going to.

It's you who cares about Naruto's cloak aiding Sasuke, the only thing that matters to ME NOW, is the only thing that seems to matters to the board, as a whole. "Sasuke shining" no, shinobi X "Shining", that "Spotlight" mindset,  is the only thing that matters now. 

Note, note, that most of the threads regarding asuke have been positive this week. I wounder, I wounder, why such is the case.


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## Panther (Sep 22, 2013)

Sasuketards being delusional as always, believing he can pull his current Susanoo out of his ass without Naruto's chakra cloack buffing his chakra levels and jutsu more than 3x  
It's because of Naruto that he's even relevant in this fight


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## Raiken (Sep 22, 2013)

Panther said:


> Sasuketards being delusional as always, believing he can pull his current Susanoo out of his ass without Naruto's chakra cloack buffing his chakra levels and jutsu more than 3x
> It's because of Naruto that he's even relevant in this fight


Indeed, I can't even be bothered talking about it any more, it's pointless to try and convince the inconvincible. Not even convince, just to get them to understand opposing points of view, nope, it's not happening. Yet certain individuals will go on, and on, and on, with mega nuke posts that I just don't have the tenacity to read because I don't believe the debate is even worth it.

If people want to attribute all of Sasuke's feats to Sasuke alone, despite the fact he's boosted by a powerful Chakra Cloak, they can.
But they'll have the majority of people here disagreeing with them.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Sep 22, 2013)

You know, it is possible that the EMS' power is just perfecting Susanoo. With that notion you can argue that Sasuke can make such Susanoos.


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## Csdabest (Sep 22, 2013)

Panther said:


> Sasuketards being delusional as always, believing he can pull his current Susanoo out of his ass without Naruto's chakra cloack buffing his chakra levels and jutsu more than 3x
> It's because of Naruto that he's even relevant in this fight



So your saying that Regular Complete Susano-o w/ legs is more chakra straining that Stage 4 Susano-o w/ Hax Chakra Bow and Enton Orb?

Your skipping over the amount of excess Chakra thats needed to Take Complete Susano-o to Stage 3 not to mention the added weapons of the enton flame and bow. Or the excess chakra needed to take complete susano-o from Stage 3 to stage 4. With enhanced enton Orb and armoring?

*LET ME SHOW YOU HOW MUCH BULLSHIT THIS ARGUMENT IS*

Susano-o isnt even any bigger than it actually is. It just has some legs THATS IT. Perfect Susano-o Unstabalized has no legs and Matches the size of 100% Kyuubi. Naruto is working with 50%. And as we can tell Sasuke Susano-o is the same size as Naruto Fox Mode. Now people are really going to say that Sasuke needs Bijuu Cloak to form legs.

Well Sasuke has been spamming Susano-o, genjutsu, Mangekyo Techniques, Chidori, and even BOSS LEVEL SUMMONINGS and has Yet to break a sweat. Hell He even states that he hasnt even gotten stated. With all the chakra Sasuke has spent and used up. 

HE SHOULD OF HAD ENOUGH CHAKRA TO ATLEAST FORM SOME LEGS.  Even for a min. The only thing Kyuubi Chakra can be attributed to is how long sasuke can keep susano-o up for which should increase


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## IpHr0z3nI (Sep 22, 2013)

Cryorex said:


> Indeed, *I can't even be bothered talking about it any more*, it's pointless to try and convince the inconvincible. Not even convince, just to get them to understand opposing points of view, nope, it's not happening. Yet certain individuals will go on, and on, and on, with mega nuke posts that I just don't have the tenacity to read because I don't believe the debate is even worth it.


Yet, you contradict yourself.

If you are going to play dead, please oh please do so gracefully. 

You don't need to get me to do shit, I understand your point better than yourself, I promise I do. It's you who misunderstood my points, or cannot seem to grasp them. What I'm saying, what none Sasuke fanboys have been saying, is that EMS possesses this POTENTIAL. Thus, whether he's utilizing Naruto's cloak now to MANIFEST anything is moot, as ultimately he's going to do so on his own.



> If people want to attribute all of Sasuke's feats to Sasuke alone, despite the fact he's boosted by a powerful Chakra Cloak, they can.


They are attributed to him because he's the ONE PERFORMING THEM.

They are attributed to him because Sasuke fans and none Sasuke fans alike, understand that the EMS already hinted to possesses the potential for BIGGER SUSANO'OS.



> But they'll have the majority of people here disagreeing with them.


Nope, check the thread. 

Many are siding with Sasuke fans, it's only the Naruto crew validating your argument.
It's only the Naruto crew that actually care, at this point.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 23, 2013)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> You know, it is possible that the EMS' power is just perfecting Susanoo. With that notion you can argue that Sasuke can make such Susanoos.


If the Shroud wasn't active, that'd be a valid argument Munboy. But with the Shroud, his Complete Susano'o is four times as large _minimum_ compared to Madara's version and Sasuke's own.


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## Panther (Sep 23, 2013)

Csdabest said:


> *So your saying that Regular Complete Susano-o w/ legs* is more chakra straining that Stage 4 Susano-o w/ Hax Chakra Bow and Enton Orb?


 ... this is what i mean with Sasuketards being delusional, thinking that his current Susanoo is just his regular Susanoo with legs, and that his chakra and jutsu isn't being powered up more than 3x by Naruto's chakra cloack... like it was stated by Kakashi and proven by the feats displayed from the cloacked Alliance fodders.

Sasuke's Susanoo has never shown to have any legs and feets without Naruto's chakra cloack.

I see a lot of BS from Sasuketards claiming that it's in his EMS potential to unlock Susanoo with legs because they saw Madara do the same.... well didn't Madara also display that he can distinguish clones from the original while Sasuke a fellow EMS user never showed any feats of doing the same?... 

Bottom line is  Madara's feats =/= Sasuke's.



> *LET ME SHOW YOU HOW MUCH BULLSHIT THIS ARGUMENT IS*


 Let me see you fail then.



> *Susano-o isnt even any bigger than it actually is. It just has some legs THATS IT.* Perfect Susano-o Unstabalized has no legs and Matches the size of 100% Kyuubi. Naruto is working with 50%. And as we can tell Sasuke Susano-o is the same size as Naruto Fox Mode. Now people are really going to say that Sasuke needs Bijuu Cloak to form legs.



Even if Sasuke's V3 can materialise legs and feets, it wouldn't be close to as big as current Susanoo, at best his Susanoo would be around 7 meters tall compared to BM Naruto which was calculated at around 150m.

Also unstabilized Perfect Susanoo does have legs. His legs are hidden behind Oonokis jinton cube.



> Well Sasuke has been spamming Susano-o, genjutsu, Mangekyo Techniques, Chidori, and even BOSS LEVEL SUMMONINGS and has Yet to break a sweat. Hell He even states that he hasnt even gotten stated. With all the chakra Sasuke has spent and used up.


 Lol.. he's just fresh in the war compared to Naruto and the allians, it's normal that he wouldn't break a sweat yet, he just started, and with Naruto's chakra cloack increasing his chakra and jutsu power, i doubt we will see him tire out anytime soon.



> HE SHOULD OF HAD ENOUGH CHAKRA TO ATLEAST FORM SOME LEGS.  Even for a min. *The only thing Kyuubi Chakra can be attributed to is how long sasuke can keep susano-o up for which should increase*


  srsly ? Sasuketards are in such a denial 

Sasuke's pesky V3 Susanoo + Chakra cloack = Pseudo Perfect Susanoo.


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## Csdabest (Sep 23, 2013)

Panther said:


> ... this is what i mean with Sasuketards being delusional, thinking that his current Susanoo is just his regular Susanoo with legs, and that his chakra and jutsu isn't being powered up more than 3x by Naruto's chakra cloack... like it was stated by Kakashi and proven by the feats displayed from the cloacked Alliance fodders.
> 
> Sasuke's Susanoo has never shown to have any legs and feets without Naruto's chakra cloack.
> 
> ...


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## Panther (Sep 23, 2013)

^

fix your post.

Edit: Since you ignored 90% of my post and just respond with answers which i've already adressed, i'll just repost what i said in my previous post.



Csdabest said:


> WHAT PSEUDO PERFECT SUSANO-O. There is no such thing. *Its just his complete susano-o w/ legs. More chakra has nothing to do with your shape manipulation skills which is all that those legs really are. Increase Shape Manipulation*.


 The amount of freaking denial is astounding !

*Sasuke's Susanoo has never shown to have any legs and feets without Naruto's chakra cloack.* If Sasuke's Susanoo has even legs, why would it be bigger than Madara's Susanoo clones and display feats to that similar of PS without  Naruto's cloack ?

this is what i mean with Sasuketards being delusional, *thinking that his current Susanoo is just his regular Susanoo with legs, and that his chakra and jutsu isn't being powered up more than 3x by Naruto's chakra cloack... like it was stated by Kakashi and proven by the feats displayed from the cloacked Alliance fodders.*

Even Madara comments on Hinata's display against one of Juubi's tails, on how she got powerfull after receiving Naruto's power. 

So why should Sasuke be any different from the Allians? oh yeah, sasuketards are in denial because it's only thanks to Naruto that he even has his current Susanoo.

I see a lot of BS from Sasuketards claiming that it's in his EMS potential to unlock Susanoo with legs because they saw Madara do the same.... well didn't Madara also display that he can distinguish clones from the original while Sasuke a fellow EMS user never showed any feats of doing the same?... 

*Bottom line is Madara's feats =/= Sasuke's.*




> Just like when Sasuke and Itachi had their susano-o grow a fourth arm when the situation required them to grab hold of those multiple giant snake heads. Despite never showing 4-arms before. You cant even argue thats because of the EMS because Itachi did it too with regular mangekyo. Its just Sasuke controlling and shape manipulating more chakra. plain and simple.


  so MS users can now use Susanoo with legs because Edo Itachi who has limitless chakra manifested an extra arm on his Susanoo  

Like i said... even if Sasuke's Stage 3 Susanoo manifests legs, it's not gonna be bigger than Madara's Susanoo clones which are roughly 7m. It's only thanks to Naruto's chakra cloack that Sasuke's Stage 3 Susanoo is as big as BM Naruto and has similar feats to that of a PS, that's why i call Sasuke's current Susanoo a pseudo PS.


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Sep 23, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> If the Shroud wasn't active, that'd be a valid argument Munboy. But with the Shroud, his Complete Susano'o is four times as large _minimum_ compared to Madara's version and Sasuke's own.



Naruto's shroud only increases the power of the jutsu. It also enhances the capabilities the jutsu was originally capable of beforehand. 

In other words if Sasuke could complete Susanoo with the shroud, it means he could without it. The only thing Naruto's shroud would do is enhance the capabilities (so the power, for instance) of that Susanoo.

It is very possible that this will be like the Rinnegan case, wherein the Seven Path powers were be shown prior to being confirmed as Rinnegan jutsu. You can argue that a complete Susanoo, by extension Perfect Susanoo, is the secret EMS jutsu. In other words we saw a jutsu that Sasuke obtained with the EMS.

The EMS may, or may not have more powers. However since this chapter you can definitely push the idea that completing Susanoo is one of the eyes' powers.

The only real arguable thing is whether or not he could cut the branch unassisted by the shroud or not.


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## Raiken (Sep 23, 2013)

Csdabest said:


> Susano-o isnt even any bigger than it actually is. It just has some legs THATS IT. Perfect Susano-o Unstabalized has no legs and Matches the size of 100% Kyuubi. Naruto is working with 50%. And as we can tell Sasuke Susano-o is the same size as Naruto Fox Mode.


Compare the size of Sasuke to his Complete Susano'os head:


His Complete Susano'o is roughly 2x bigger than normal + Legs.
It was the same with MS as against Kabuto with EMS, and with his EMS Final Susano'o against the Zetsu's, but with a slight scaling because of the Armour Layer. But never as big as against Obito now.

Madara's Giant Final Susano'o, is just over half of Perfect Susano'o, because of the lack of legs, *size wise*.

Kyuubi is also behind Susano'o, and crouching down, making it look smaller.
But that Susano'o is: roughly half the size of 100% Kyuubi.
And here's a comparison of PS, basically a Giant, Legged, Stabilized Final Susano'o and The 100% Kyuubi, compared to the size of Madara himself.

Perfect Susano'o and 100% Kyuubi, are roughly the same size.

I'd beg to differ very strongly on that one. So the Susano'o recently used by Sasuke, is roughly 2x bigger than what he's produced in the past, as shown.
Lets see some comparisons:


So even a Final Susano + Legs, that's 2x Bigger than what Sasuke's produced in the past, and the Legs double the size themselves.
Sasuke's only going to be half the size of Naruto's Bijuu Mode, and that's* at most*.


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## Sifus (Sep 23, 2013)

I love how people use size of Susano'o as an argument depite knowing Kishi is inconsistent with it.


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## Ben Tennyson (Sep 23, 2013)

the Shroud do nothing on Susanoo as Susanoo doesn't feed on chakra.


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## Dr. White (Sep 23, 2013)

Uhm your argument is flawed buddy. 
Both sasuke and itachi were limited in how big they could make their susano due to being in an enclosed area, similair to how Hashi was limited to how much mokuton could be produced inside the sound 4's barrier in pt.1.

Second off you completely skipped over Sasuke making his susano huge as fuck when he was atop Aoda fighting the juubi fodders. It was cery comparable in size


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## BlinkST (Sep 23, 2013)

Dr. White said:


> Second off you completely skipped over Sasuke making his susano huge as fuck when he was atop Aoda fighting the juubi fodders. It was cery comparable in size


That was actually inconsistent.


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## Raiken (Sep 23, 2013)

You say they were limited in the cave? Then why was his Susano'o a similar size, but only slightly bigger because of the extra layer here:

Which was the size I was comparing to Bijuu Mode as well.
That Susano'o, even though being a higher level and slightly larger size as a result, is a similar, or slightly smaller size than the Complete Susano'o seen last week; not including the legs.

Also, Bijuu Mode is similar size or slightly bigger than Aoda, who's head Sasuke's Susano'o sat upon.
Yet your argument is, he has used a bigger Susano'o after fighting Kabuto in a Cave, and that "bigger" Susano'o, plus legs, is what he's using now; teamed up with Bijuu Mode Naruto. But you say BM and Sasuke's Susano'o are a similar size, yet BM is the size of Aoda.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 23, 2013)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Naruto's shroud only increases the power of the jutsu. It also enhances the capabilities the jutsu was originally capable of beforehand.
> 
> In other words if Sasuke could complete Susanoo with the shroud, it means he could without it. The only thing Naruto's shroud would do is enhance the capabilities (so the power, for instance) of that Susanoo.
> 
> ...


However the size difference is too extreme. Madara's Complete Susano'o with legs is no where near as tall as Sasuke's current one (nearly 120 meters tall), with legs the Susano'o's size just doubles. Sasuke's normal Complete Susano'o is around 10 meters, with legs it'd be 20. But instead, now that he has Naruto's chakra powering up the jutsu (its a passive effect), its near 120 meters tall and the same size as Naruto's Biju Mode. That's what the shroud has done for Sasuke.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Sep 23, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> However the size difference is too extreme. Madara's Complete Susano'o with legs is no where near as tall as Sasuke's current one (nearly 120 meters tall), with legs the Susano'o's size just doubles. Sasuke's normal Complete Susano'o is around 10 meters, with legs it'd be 20. But instead, now that he has Naruto's chakra powering up the jutsu (its a passive effect), its near 120 meters tall and the same size as Naruto's Biju Mode. That's what the shroud has done for Sasuke.



We don't know that. We never saw anything to compare Madara's complete Susanoo to Sasuke. It may very well have been as big as Sasuke's, perhaps even bigger as Madara has shown that he's capable of manipulating Susanoo's size (though the other users have shown this, albeit on a lower level).

Where are you getting the precise measurements of Sasuke's Susanoo? 

We know that's what the shroud _could_ have done for Sasuke. However given what Madara's shown we know that is could also be something that the EMS _could_ have done for Sasuke too.

We really can't take one stance (i.e. saying its purely the shroud) and dismiss another (i.e. it could be a product of the EMS). Considering we've seen no EMS exclusive abilities from Sasuke prior this chapter, it is hard to readily say what Naruto's shroud did or didn't do for Sasuke's Susanoo.

A week or two may change things, or Sasuke using the Susanoo without the shroud may change things too. However at this juncture, with all the evidence we have: it isn't possible to come out with a clear cut conclusion.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 23, 2013)

Except Munboy, ALL NINJUTSU ARE ENHANCED BY THE SHROUD. Susano'o is a NINJUTSU. We even have a BEFORE and AFTER the shroud, with Sasuke's Susano'o just being as big as Aoba's head before and now after the shroud its as big as Naruto's Biju Mode. And Madara's Complete Susano'o is isn't anywhere NEAR the size of Naruto's Biju Mode.

ALL evidence poitns to the Shroud enhancing Sasuke's abilities with Susano'o. Doubting it is denying what the shroud EVEN DOES.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Sep 23, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Except Munboy, ALL NINJUTSU ARE ENHANCED BY THE SHROUD. Susano'o is a NINJUTSU. We even have a BEFORE and AFTER the shroud, with Sasuke's Susano'o just being as big as Aoba's head before and now after the shroud its as big as Naruto's Biju Mode. And Madara's Complete Susano'o is isn't anywhere NEAR the size of Naruto's Biju Mode.
> 
> ALL evidence poitns to the Shroud enhancing Sasuke's abilities with Susano'o. Doubting it is denying what the shroud EVEN DOES.



Usually we can tell the extent of the enhancement when we've seen someone use a jutsu without the shroud. That isn't the case here: we have not seen a before and after with a full Susanoo.

There is a very big difference between half Susanoos and full Susanoos; ask Madara. Though looking at the Madara scans, you may have a point about the size.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 23, 2013)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Usually we can tell the extent of the enhancement when we've seen someone use a jutsu without the shroud. That isn't the case here: we have not seen a before and after with a full Susanoo.
> 
> There is a very big difference between half Susanoos and full Susanoos; ask Madara. Though looking at the Madara scans, you may have a point about the size.


Full Susano'o only doubles the sizes. It DOESN'T make a Complete Susano'o grow to the size of Naruto's Biju Mode form. And we have a before and after for Sasuke's Susano'o, before it just could fit on Aoba's head, after it is the size of Biju Mode Naruto's Kurama Avatar.


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## BlinkST (Sep 23, 2013)

Something tells me they can control the size


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## Krippy (Sep 23, 2013)

Susano'o users can make Susano'o as big as they want chakra withholding


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 23, 2013)

BlinkST said:


> Something tells me they can control the size


Though Complete Susano'o with legs isn't anywhere near Naruto's Biju Mode size. 

Find the zombie
Find the zombie
Find the zombie
Find the zombie
Find the zombie
Find the zombie
Find the zombie

As you can see, Complete Susano'o with leg's maximum size is far, far smaller than Biju Mode Naruto's Kurama Avatar.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Sep 23, 2013)

BlinkST said:


> Something tells me they can control the size
> 
> 
> 
> ...



In light of Blink's evidence, we can't readily say Susanoo has a set size. 

Uchiha with high chakra capacities will be able to manifest very large Susanoo structures. 

Plus Sasuke was able to generate enough Enton chakra to match Naruto's FRS' chakra quantity. That in-itself should suggest that Sasuke at least has the means to generate large Susanoo jutsu.

You cannot readily use Madara's Susanoo sizes against the Gokage because it was very evident that he wasn't taking them very seriously. 

Like I said before right now we really cannot say we are certain if Sasuke obtained that size with Naruto's help, or with the EMS' help.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 23, 2013)

*rubs bridge of the nose*

Complete Susano'o has a maximum set size. We saw this during Madara's fight with the Gokage. Not only that, we have a practical before and after picture after getting Naruto's chakra. Its just denial at this point that at this point Sasuke can do it on his own.


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## BlinkST (Sep 23, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Though Complete Susano'o with legs isn't anywhere near Naruto's Biju Mode size.


 It does not _"default"_ to one particular size. That's what you have to understand, supersaiyanbro 




They can make it about as large as they see fit. The "standing Susano'o" you referenced that was used by Madara's clones, as well as the actual Madara, was fairly conservative in size. 




That standing Susano'o is the one we know that is "underneath" the Yamabushi transformation, wearing it like an armor. 





And that of course, was several times larger than what Madara was doing earlier. Actually, it was larger than naruto's bijumode


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 23, 2013)

Madara who has achieved Perfect Susano'o doesn't equal Sasuke who hasn't too. And again, no one would be arguing this if Sasuke *DIDN'T RECEIVE A CHAKRA CLOAK FROM NARUTO.* The chakra cloak passively enhances any jutsu.


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## BlinkST (Sep 23, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Madara who has achieved Perfect Susano'o doesn't equal Sasuke who hasn't too.


You don't "get it" Whether or not Madara has "achieved" perfect Susano'o, doesn't have anything to do with the size of the Susano'o underneath the Yamabushi armor. That's what the round eyes are


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Sep 23, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Madara who has achieved Perfect Susano'o doesn't equal Sasuke who hasn't too. And again, no one would be arguing this if Sasuke *DIDN'T RECEIVE A CHAKRA CLOAK FROM NARUTO.* The chakra cloak passively enhances any jutsu.



Except you cannot readily discount the idea that by having the EMS, Sasuke has Perfect Susanoo. That the full Susanoo form (legs and all) are part of that. 

No-one would be arguing the feat if Sasuke didn't receive the cloak. However it wouldn't be _arguable_ if we saw Sasuke utilise such a Susanoo prior this chapter.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 23, 2013)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Except you cannot readily discount the idea that by having the EMS, Sasuke has Perfect Susanoo. That the full Susanoo form (legs and all) are part of that.
> 
> No-one would be arguing the feat if Sasuke didn't receive the cloak. However it wouldn't be _arguable_ if we saw Sasuke utilise such a Susanoo prior this chapter.


Even though before the cloak, Sasuke's Susano'o was much smaller than Naruto's Biju Mode? Even when he utilized his Final Form?


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## BlinkST (Sep 23, 2013)

The situation didn't call for a larger Susano'o. A baby one packs plenty of power


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Sep 23, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Even though before the cloak, Sasuke's Susano'o was much smaller than Naruto's Biju Mode? Even when he utilized his Final Form?



Did Sasuke _need_ such a large Susanoo at those times; let alone one with a complete body?


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 23, 2013)

Are you purposely trying to be annoying, BlinkST? Not to mention you earlier _agreed_ that Naruto's Chakra Cloak made Sasuke's Susano'o grow larger than normal.



Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Did Sasuke _need_ such a large Susanoo at those times; let alone one with a complete body?


Given how Sasuke was axe-crazy until Chapter 627, he unleashed his final Susano'o on a BUNCH OF ZETSU, it doesn't matter if he 'needed' it or not. He was bloodlusted.

Sasuke has Naruto's chakra cloak enhancing him. Its not debatable.


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## BlinkST (Sep 23, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Are you purposely trying to be annoying, BlinkST? Not to mention you earlier _agreed_ that Naruto's Chakra Cloak made Sasuke's Susano'o grow larger than normal.



Even Lathia could tell I was being sarcastic


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## NarutoShion4ever (Sep 23, 2013)

Sifus said:


> I love how people use size of Susano'o as an argument depite knowing Kishi is inconsistent with it.




 Everything about Susanoo is inconsistent. Transplanting Itachi's eyes apparently doubled Sasuke's chakra capacity...or something...because using Susanoo doesn't take a toll on his body anymore.



BlinkST said:


> *snip*
> 
> Something tells me they can control the size




As far as Kishimoto seems concerned, Susanoo is nothing more than giving Sasuke a cheap Biju Mode of his own. It even has similar stages in its development. In other words, an Uchiha uses his Susanoo like Killer B uses his jinchuriki powers (version 1 cloak, version 2 cloak, partial transformations and full biju mode). Once you get passed the blindness, Susanoo has all of the advantages and none of the drawbacks that being a jinchuriki has.



Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Naruto's shroud only increases the power of the jutsu. It also enhances the capabilities the jutsu was originally capable of beforehand.
> 
> In other words if Sasuke could complete Susanoo with the shroud, it means he could without it. The only thing Naruto's shroud would do is enhance the capabilities (so the power, for instance) of that Susanoo.
> 
> ...




Susanoo is one jutsu...with different forms. Sasuke can probably form legs on his Susanoo without the assistance of the chakra cloak...and then Susanoo would have disappeared halfway through the jump to the tree. Because assuming that Susanoo takes chakra (and not plot-chakra which I suspect) then it's the combination of Susanoo's form and the length of time that Susanoo form is active that determines how much chakra it takes.

In other words, Sasuke might have performed the same feat by (1) using the Susanoo with legs to jump; (2) used Susanoo without legs to cut the tree; and (3) summon a hawk to prevent himself from crash-landing. The canon feat *in total* is only possible due to the chakra cloak's assistance.



Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> We know that's what the shroud _could_ have done for Sasuke. However given what Madara's shown we know that is could also be something that the EMS _could_ have done for Sasuke too.
> 
> We really can't take one stance (i.e. saying its purely the shroud) and dismiss another (i.e. it could be a product of the EMS). Considering we've seen no EMS exclusive abilities from Sasuke prior this chapter, it is hard to readily say what Naruto's shroud did or didn't do for Sasuke's Susanoo.
> 
> A week or two may change things, or Sasuke using the Susanoo without the shroud may change things too. However at this juncture, with all the evidence we have: it isn't possible to come out with a clear cut conclusion.




Sasuke is not Madara. Sasuke's chakra reserves are not Madara's chakra reserves.

So unless Kishimoto has a character state otherwise, the chakra cloak gave Sasuke a chakra battery that allowed him to *create* a more complete Susanoo and *maintain* it...than Sasuke was capable of without the chakra cloak.

And if this chapter proved anything, it's that EMS doesn't have any additional advantages besides giving you some sort of general power-boost; it simply removes the disadvantages of Mangekyou Sharingan.



Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Usually we can tell the extent of the enhancement when we've seen someone use a jutsu without the shroud. That isn't the case here: we have not seen a before and after with a full Susanoo.




Most of the time we see a complete jutsu getting a power-boost.

Sasuke's Susanoo is an incomplete jutsu getting a boost.

So of course it's a bit more ambiguous.



Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Uchiha with high chakra capacities will be able to manifest very large Susanoo structures.




Chakra capacity justifies much about Susanoo. Regarding the size and the duration.



Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Plus Sasuke was able to generate enough Enton chakra to match Naruto's FRS' chakra quantity. That in-itself should suggest that Sasuke at least has the means to generate large Susanoo jutsu.




 What kind of logic is that?

Anyway, that does make me want to see a competition between Choji, Naruto, and Sasuke. Choji turns himself a giant with his Baika no jutsu. Sasuke creates Susanoo. And Naruto henge's himself into a giant version of himself. If Sasuke can create a Susanoo, Naruto doesn't need Kurama to create a Biju-sized chakra construct.


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## Enclave (Sep 23, 2013)

IDontHateYou said:


> I just have to rub this in. As a sasuke fan, I've learned to endure.
> 
> A week ago, people said that Sasuke wouldn't be able to do jack shit against the God Tree without a serious upgrade.
> 
> ...



He cut a single root of it in half, not the whole tree.  Wow, Sasuke fans really are reading an entirely different manga from everybody else aren't they?


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## Closet Pervert (Sep 23, 2013)

Probably because the God Tree identified Sasuke's chakra worthless so Sasuke was the only one left with any chakra. Chapter proves that fodder > Sasuke.


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## HoriMaori (Sep 23, 2013)

Closet Pervert said:


> Probably because the God Tree identified Sasuke's chakra worthless so Sasuke was the only one left with any chakra. Chapter proves that fodder > Sasuke.



Nice trolling 

Mine turn to add to the trolling going on here. Albeit slightly less subtle:

Sasuke could only do it because of Naruto Kurama Chakra buff


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## titantron91 (Sep 24, 2013)

Is this serious? Just proves that NF is made up majorly of overly emotional Sauce Haters.

When Kakashi was sapping on Naruto's charity chakra, how come no one is complaining and crying like middle-school losers?

Get over it. Saucegay cut the God Tree while Naruturd was crying like a bitch. That's what happened. Jesus. Close this thread, already.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Sep 24, 2013)

NarutoShion4ever said:


> Sasuke is not Madara. Sasuke's chakra reserves are not Madara's chakra reserves.


And Sasuke's chakara reserves hasn't been given a limit just yet.



> So unless Kishimoto has a character state otherwise, the chakra cloak gave Sasuke a chakra battery that allowed him to *create* a more complete Susanoo and *maintain* it...than Sasuke was capable of without the chakra cloak.


Nope, as how do you establish which is MORE COMPLETED. 

One is larger, but one carries the special property that for Madara and Itachi, only exist within their most advance stages.

Ultimately this will be a two sided issue, as the EMS yields the potential on it's own to produce a larger Susano'o. You can't ignore that, no more than you could ignore Sasuke utilizing Naruto's cloak at the moment.

Thus both sides will simply have to wait. If Sasuke proves, like I GUARANTEE YOU HE WILL, that he's capable of producing a Susano'o just as advance without Naruto's chakara, then ultimately Naruto's chakara would be chalk up as a "Catalyst" for EMS Sasuke's full potential.



> And if this chapter proved anything, it's that EMS doesn't have any additional advantages besides giving you some sort of general power-boost; it simply removes the disadvantages of Mangekyou Sharingan.


But the EMS has already proven to be associated with larger Susano'os.

And if Sasuke is capable of keeping pace with Naruto's "Current transformation" next chapter, then the EMS would have fulfilled it's role as Sasuke's new power up.



> Most of the time we see a complete jutsu getting a power-boost.
> 
> Sasuke's Susanoo is an incomplete jutsu getting a boost.


Wait it is? Uh... again this is a more completed Susano'o.(Evidence is in it's showcasing, it still hasn't manifested beyond a teaser)

However, I believe Kishi is going to show the above on a larger scale.

If perfect Susano'o, as implied, is a EMS EXCLUSIVE JUTSU, then you have to distinguish a Mangekyou Susano's from an Eternal Mangekyou one.



> Chakra capacity justifies much about Susanoo. Regarding the size and the duration.


That's still almost entirely speculation.

As you cited to Blinks earlier it's a Uchiha's Biju...

The size of Susano'o seems to be a factor of will and intent opposed to chakara capacity. The only thing that chakara seems to play a role in, is MAINTENANCE, as seen here.

For your argument to make since you'd have to forgo this, and this.(You wouldn't say Sasuke's chakara reserves increased would you?)

Your chakara capacity argument is flawed, as even Hebi Sasuke possessed more chakra than Itachi, yet Mangeyou Sasuke wasn't able to manifest a ARMORED SUSANO'O until the tail end of his MS development.

The problem with any theories regarding Susano'o development is that we only have one model: Sasuke. The problem with your chakara argument, is that we know from a more experienced figure that the power of a Uchiha evolves much different than any other species.

Finally, the problem regarding the argument of "Even though before the cloak, Sasuke's Susano'o was much smaller than Naruto's Biju Mode? Even when he utilized his Final Form? "

Is that Sasuke probably didn't get the idea for his current Susano'o until...Several chapters after he was given the cloak

His "I'm just getting started" line, also hints MOTIVATION taking the forefront.


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## John Connor (Sep 24, 2013)

Sasuke's EMS can do whatever madara's can do during the flashback with Hashirama

Perfect Susnano and Perfect genjutsu.. just like what Sasuke used against Danzou. small genjutsu used perfectly can be powerful. just like how Shunshin used perfectly can be kage level

as long as you dont try to win then your genjutsu it will never be noticed


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## Xin (Sep 24, 2013)

This title made me laugh.

kinda


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## John Connor (Sep 24, 2013)

well Susano in base form can take on anything

the only problem is Itachi's Susano has the 2 strongest magical items in the Naruto world

Sasuke tried to counter with Amaterasu flames on his blade which IMO is a stronger attack than Totsuka Blade but the magical properties of Itachi's jutsu show superior sealing abilities while Sasukes show Superior attack


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## NarutoShion4ever (Sep 24, 2013)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> And Sasuke's chakara reserves hasn't been given a limit just yet.




Not a definitive one. But he always had temporary ones.



IpHr0z3nI said:


> For your argument to make since you'd have to forgo this, and this.(You wouldn't say Sasuke's chakara reserves increased would you?)
> 
> Your chakara capacity argument is flawed, as even Hebi Sasuke possessed more chakra than Itachi, yet Mangeyou Sasuke wasn't able to manifest a ARMORED SUSANO'O until the tail end of his MS development.
> 
> The problem with any theories regarding Susano'o development is that we only have one model: Sasuke. The problem with your chakara argument, is that we know from a more experienced figure that the power of a Uchiha evolves much different than any other species.




Hebi Sasuke had the power of the Cursed Seal and the power of Orochimaru at his disposal. Which he lost after Itachi.

What Tobirama explained is exactly what happened with Sasuke after losing his Hebi powers and awakening his Mangekyou Sharingan powers: he became more powerful.

I hypothesized in another thread that an Uchiha's chakra might become closer to the Juubi's chakra as an Uchiha awakens more of his eye powers. In other words, the chakra volume might stay the same but it gains a higher energy density...or something.

So maybe chakra capacity isn't the most correct phrase to use, but the principle behind it seems valid (indeed must be valid if Kishimoto wants to maintain some consistency): the more energy you have the more you can do.

How love-loss-hatred can give you more powerful chakra in the first place is a plot-hole that I doubt Kishimoto is going to address. Because that's exactly what makes the Uchiha magicians among Ki-users.



IpHr0z3nI said:


> That's still almost entirely speculation.
> 
> As you cited to Blinks earlier it's a Uchiha's Biju...
> 
> The size of Susano'o seems to be a factor of will and intent opposed to chakara capacity. The only thing that chakara seems to play a role in, is MAINTENANCE, as seen here.




Is it speculation to assume that Susanoo follows the same principles that all other jutsu follow? I think it should be the default assumption.

And just because an Uchiha can change the size of Susanoo to suit the situation, doesn't mean there is no limit regarding the energy inside Uchiha chakra. If maintaining Susanoo is bound to the energy requirements, then surely creating Susanoo is bound to the same rule?



IpHr0z3nI said:


> Nope, as how do you establish which is MORE COMPLETED.
> 
> One is larger, but one carries the special property that for Madara and Itachi, only exist within their most advance stages.
> 
> ...




They're both complete in different ways. But like you stated, we only have Sasuke to model it after. The fact remains that the first time that Sasuke's Susanoo showed legs was with the help of the chakra cloak. Which remains relevant until the manga tells us otherwise. That's why I said that it's relevant that Susanoo is an incomplete jutsu getting a boost through the chakra cloak. How Sasuke utilized that boost in abilities is unknown. It might simply be that Sasuke is using the chakra cloak to conserve his energy. And what people seem to ignore is that the chakra cloak doesn't just boos your abilities, it also resets you energy reserves which Choji demonstrated by becoming fatter again.

In the end the argument against the chakra cloak boils down to: If Sasuke had fresh energy reserves, he would have been able to perform the same feat. Which nicely ignores that Sasuke didn't have fresh energy reserves before he got the chakra cloak; reset his energy reserves after getting the chakra cloak; and ignores the possible condition Sasuke would have been in after performing the feat in this chapter without chakra cloak. The other argument is even worse: Sasuke will demonstrate a similar feat in the future without a chakra cloak so the chakra cloak doesn't matter.

I know that Kishimoto doesn't adhere to any rules when it concerns the Uchiha. It surprised me that Sasuke got the chakra cloak in the first place, but I suspect it will end up as nothing but a plot device for Sasuke's next power-up. Maybe it will finally reveal the connection between the Uchiha and the Kyuubi. But the denial that the chakra cloak didn't do anything for Sasuke is a bit much.


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