# sabo vs akainu



## babaGAReeb (Jun 1, 2014)

akainu is back to kill another mera mera user 

location: same as akainu vs ace

mindset: in character(meaning they want to kill the shit out of each other)

distance: 30 meters

who wins?


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## trance (Jun 1, 2014)

Akainu wins with high difficulty.


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## 2Broken (Jun 1, 2014)

Not certain of the difficulty, but I am quite certain Akainu wins.

If I had to guess a diff I would say mid.


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## Extravlad (Jun 1, 2014)

Akainu low difficulty.

Sabo would get mid diff by another Admiral/Yonko, but Akainu has the DF advantage.


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## Lawliet (Jun 1, 2014)

Akainu is tired of dem Mera Mera users.


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## Sir Curlyhat (Jun 1, 2014)

_Sabo needs to get to EoS to stand a chance._


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## TheWiggian (Jun 1, 2014)

Akainu one shots Sabo


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## November (Jun 1, 2014)

Magmafist


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## Daisuke Jigen (Jun 1, 2014)

Luffy loses yet another brother to the hellhound. Low diff.


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## Dellinger (Jun 1, 2014)

Akainu magma slaps him.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Jun 1, 2014)

Magma ... FIST !


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## Daisuke Jigen (Jun 1, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> Akainu wins with high difficulty.


Um...why? 


Mr. Black Leg said:


> Magma ... FIST !





White Hawk said:


> Akainu magma slaps him.


I don't know, I kind of like White Hawk's idea better.


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## Gervin (Jun 1, 2014)

Akainu wins cause magma > fire.  And, you know, because he's superior to Sabo in absolutely every way, but also cause of the magma > fire thing.


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## Magician (Jun 1, 2014)

Akainu, high diff.


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## Samehadaman (Jun 1, 2014)

Sabo throws fire at Akainu, but...



Akainu magmafists.


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## Ether (Jun 1, 2014)

Akainu wins mid diff only because Sabo has at least enough haki to guard himself for a while but he isn't going to severely injure Akainu. 

The Mera Mera no mi is useless and Akainu magma-fists yet another one of Luffy's brothers.


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## Venom (Jun 1, 2014)

Embrace yourselves
Another Magmafist is coming


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## Dr. White (Jun 1, 2014)

From a feats standpoint Sabo has the single most impressive Haki presented so far. Before the Mera Mera he would give Akainu the higher end of low diff, or the lower end of Mid diff (stretching it). With Mera Mera he gives Akainu a solid Mid diff fight. Could change to higher end Midd diff to High Diff pending his performance this arc. Sabo's fire first was scaled to be around the same DC as Akainu's Dai Funka, and Kizaru's Magrove Kick, and all attacks were pretty casual/


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## Lawliet (Jun 1, 2014)

Dr. White said:


> From a feats standpoint Sabo has the single most impressive Haki presented so far. Before the Mera Mera he would give Akainu the higher end of low diff, or the lower end of Mid diff (stretching it). With Mera Mera he gives Akainu a solid Mid diff fight. Could change to higher end Midd diff to High Diff pending his performance this arc. Sabo's fire first was scaled to be around the same DC as Akainu's Dai Funka, and Kizaru's Magrove Kick, and all attacks were pretty casual/



No he doesn't.


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## Shanks (Jun 1, 2014)

This DF advantage business is retarded. Akainu burns Sabo exactly the same legality as he would burn anyone else of the same level. Currently, Mera Mera no mi doesn't help that much against any top tier (Bar Kuzan) due to lack on control and experience so having the DF or not make absolutely no difference when fighting Akaiun, Kizaru, Shanks or any other top tier for that matter.

That said, base Sabo can give Akainu high difficulties and that’s how the fight will end. Even if you believe Sabo is only Jozu level, then it should still be the high end of mid dif. Anyone who says low diff, stomp or similar responses either have very retarded reading comprehension or simply have being suck on the red dog’s tiny cock for way to long, they lose their own self identify and no longer remember their mother’s and her puppies name.


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## Lycka (Jun 1, 2014)

To put down Sabo, the second strongest revolutionary whose origination is soon to overpower the world government, the World Governments best fighter would need no less than high difficulty to put such a noteworthy force down.


Sabo has a lot of room to grow given he just got a fruit so he defiantly hasn't reached near his potential yet his name is already up there with the big wigs of the new world the Yonkou and Admirals.


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## Lawliet (Jun 1, 2014)

> This DF advantage business is retarded.


No it's not. DF advantages exist.


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## Shanks (Jun 1, 2014)

oOLawlietOo said:


> No it's not. DF advantages exist.



The Red Dog is capable of melting fleshes, bones and turns his opponent into dusk, yet people automatically believe he can do even MORE to Sabo at contact and reducing the level of difficulties... is RETARDED. How do you do more than make a hole in someone's body and melt that person's face at contact beats me.


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## Lawliet (Jun 1, 2014)

No one is saying he can do more to Sabo cuz he has the mera mera and others don't. No one is saying taking Defless Sabo will be harder than mera mera Sabo for Akainu. I'm only saying element disadvantage does exist.


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## Shanks (Jun 1, 2014)

And I am saying the way people talks about it (or implied) in this thread is retarded.


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## TheWiggian (Jun 2, 2014)

indeed this thread is retarded, every1 knows that sabo goes down giving akainu low diff


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 2, 2014)

Admiral Aokiji said:


> This DF advantage business is retarded. Akainu burns Sabo exactly the same legality as he would burn anyone else of the same level. Currently, Mera Mera no mi doesn't help that much against any top tier (Bar Kuzan) due to lack on control and experience so having the DF or not make absolutely no difference when fighting Akaiun, Kizaru, Shanks or any other top tier for that matter.
> 
> That said, base Sabo can give Akainu high difficulties and that?s how the fight will end. Even if you believe Sabo is only Jozu level, then it should still be the high end of mid dif. Anyone who says low diff, stomp or similar responses either have very retarded reading comprehension or simply have being suck on the red dog?s tiny cock for way to long, they lose their own self identify and no longer remember their mother?s and her puppies name.



I partly agree with your point, but you are missing the context of what's implied with devil fruit disadvantages.  What Oda intended to portray with the concept of devil fruit clashing against one another is that there are certain devil fruit that are either inferior to other type of devil fruit, or inferior. In the of ace, he embarks in two categories; inferiority and superiority. The former, inferiority, is which devil fruit is his natural weakness. The former is the advantage he has over a certain devil fruit. His Mera Mera no mi was something that makes him resistant to a certain amount of heat most humans would not be able to bear due to what their limit dictates. Ace's devil fruit's power enabling him great resistance towards heat is to no avail when against Akainu's Magu Magu no mi. 

Ace's intangibility allows the user, Ace, to bypass every attacks except for attacks from the Magu Magu no mi. The extent to which he can negate heat and other types of attacks ranges very far but stops at the Magu Magu no mi because he it's his natural weakness. It'll burn him despite him having resistance to conventional heat and will ultimately injure/damage him like it does to a regular human/being or matter. You may think it's irrelevant, but it isn't. It's just something that he wanted to inform to his readers that this specific devil fruit that is the mera mera no mi has a natural weakness to the Magu Magu no mi. It's very informative mind you.


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## Shanks (Jun 2, 2014)

Lyrical-Messiah said:


> I partly agree with your point, but you are missing the context of what's implied with devil fruit disadvantages.  What Oda intended to portray with the concept of devil fruit clashing against one another is that there are certain devil fruit that are either inferior to other type of devil fruit, or inferior. In the of ace, he embarks in two categories; inferiority and superiority. The former, inferiority, is which devil fruit is his natural weakness. The former is the advantage he has over a certain devil fruit. His Mera Mera no mi was something that makes him resistant to a certain amount of heat most humans would not be able to bear due to what their limit dictates. Ace's devil fruit's power enabling him great resistance towards heat is to no avail when against Akainu's Magu Magu no mi.
> 
> Ace's intangibility allows the user, Ace, to bypass every attacks except for attacks from the Magu Magu no mi. The extent to which he can negate heat and other types of attacks ranges very far but stops at the Magu Magu no mi because he it's his natural weakness. It'll burn him despite him having resistance to conventional heat and will ultimately injure/damage him like it does to a regular human/being or matter. You may think it's irrelevant, but it isn't. It's just something that he wanted to inform to his readers that this specific devil fruit that is the mera mera no mi has a natural weakness to the Magu Magu no mi. It's very informative mind you.



You're missing the point and basically wrote two long paragraphs to punch a drag doll. I never said there wasn't a DF advantage, I said people using the DF advantage in the way the did are retarded. Sabo doesn't need the use the Mera Mera no mi to fight and push Akainu to high nor does having the MMnM make him more vulnerable to the magma.


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## Lycka (Jun 2, 2014)

Marco took a bloodlusted Magma Punch ( Hells something?) straight to the face, the fucking face; yet he showed no signs of pain, fatigue, not difficulty doing so. People are quick to forget this this because a kick to Akainus shoulder from him did nothing.

Sabo should be around as strong as Marco if not equal or a bit above.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Jun 2, 2014)

OPtiers said:


> Marco took a bloodlusted Magma Punch ( Hells something?) straight to the face, the fucking face; yet he showed no signs of pain, fatigue, not difficulty doing so.


Yeah, because Marco has a DF that regenerates his injuries, and that attack still damaged him. And in case you didn't notice, not only does Sabo DF not allow him to do that, his DF is completely useless against Akainu's DF.


OPtiers said:


> People are quick to forget this this because a kick to Akainus shoulder from him did nothing.


Marco used his talons on Akainu, and he had Vista (who stalemated against Mihawk for a lengthened period of time) with him in that ambush...yet they still failed to even make Akainu tangible.


OPtiers said:


> Sabo should be around as strong as Marco if not equal or a bit above.


Except we don't know it, because Sabo hasn't shown any feats that prove it.


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## Magentabeard (Jun 2, 2014)

After Sabo is stalemated with Fujitora, no one will be able to say Akainu low/mid diffs Sabo anymore.


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## trance (Jun 2, 2014)

Magentabeard said:


> *After Sabo is stalemated with Fujitora*, no one will be able to say Akainu low/mid diffs Sabo anymore.



Yea, this won't happen. 

It seems Oda is saving the true extent of Issho's power for a later time. :ignoramus


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## Magician (Jun 2, 2014)

Yeah, Fuji's gonna solo the SH's and end the manga this arc.


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## trance (Jun 3, 2014)

Did I imply that?


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## Venom (Jun 3, 2014)

Admiral Aokiji said:


> This DF advantage business is retarded. Akainu burns Sabo exactly the same legality as he would burn anyone else of the same level. Currently, Mera Mera no mi doesn't help that much against any top tier (Bar Kuzan) due to lack on control and experience so having the DF or not make absolutely no difference when fighting Akaiun, Kizaru, Shanks or any other top tier for that matter.
> 
> That said, base Sabo can give Akainu high difficulties and that’s how the fight will end. Even if you believe Sabo is only Jozu level, then it should still be the high end of mid dif. *Anyone who says low diff, stomp or similar responses either have very retarded reading comprehension or simply have being suck on the red dog’s tiny cock for way to long*, they lose their own self identify and no longer remember their mother’s and her puppies name.



It's definitely not you who is the Sabotard but we who are the Akainutards 
Alright 

And no I don't believe that Jozu can give Akainu a higher end of mid diff fight.


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## trance (Jun 3, 2014)

Admiral Aokiji said:


> Sabo doesn't need the use the Mera Mera no mi to fight and push Akainu to high.



Base Sabo giving Akainu high difficulty?


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## babaGAReeb (Jun 3, 2014)

sabo loses badly to akainu ameego

loses even more badly to fruitless akainu


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## Venom (Jun 3, 2014)

Baba your avi remiinds me of bad times


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## Lawliet (Jun 3, 2014)

Akainu kills Jozu.


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## babaGAReeb (Jun 3, 2014)

Venom said:


> Baba your avi remiinds me of bad times


fuck pedo pedro

i used dis avi before him


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## Shanks (Jun 3, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> Base Sabo giving Akainu high difficulty?



When you say "based", you do mean DVless, right? And why not?


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## Shanks (Jun 3, 2014)

Venom said:


> And no I don't believe that Jozu can give Akainu a higher end of mid diff fight.



Yeah, speaking loudly that Sabo have DF disadvantage to Akainu and now you're probably ignoring completely that Diamond can be a stronger defensive against magma than other fruits and that Jozu practically was fighting on even terms with MF top tiers until Oda decided to have him get rapped from the backside.


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## trance (Jun 3, 2014)

Admiral Aokiji said:


> When you say "based", you do mean DVless, right? And why not?



Yes and because he can't. With the Mera Mera, he's about as strong as Marco and that's a high difficulty fight for Akainu. No way is a DFless Sabo giving him the same amount of difficulty. 


*Spoiler*: __


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## Magician (Jun 3, 2014)

Sabo was second in command of the Revo army before getting the Mera mera. Isn't that like the main argument that he's top tier? 

If he's the 2nd strongest behind Dragon he should be comparable to the Admirals, and that's before consuming the devil fruit.


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## Lawliet (Jun 3, 2014)

> as fighting on even terms with MF top tiers until Oda decided to have him get rapped from the backside.


He wasn't fighting on even terms with Aokiji. We saw nothing from that fight except the cheap shots they gave each other and we saw which cheap shot took the other guy out which screams who is noticeably stronger.


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## Lawliet (Jun 3, 2014)

Sabo is not the 2nd strongest after Dragon. If he is going to be the 2nd strongest then a 3rd person has to be a top tier in the revolutionary army as well.


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## babaGAReeb (Jun 3, 2014)

@aoikiji

and i think you mean raped not rapped lol


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## Sir Curlyhat (Jun 3, 2014)

_Sabo is a potential top tier without having any reliance on his Mera Mera. He would give Akainu a fight, he would just end up definitely losing at this point in time. Given the nature of the organization he's part of i think he has a good grasp of how strong the Admirals are, as well as the DF power of the current FA. Sabo seems to be the most calculated of the three brothers by far, even his fight in the Colosseum showcases that, the way he toyed with Burgess without taking any unnecessary risks and ended up using his opponents power to his advantage. Even with his desire to avenge Ace he is likely not to do anything foolish. His ability to avoid attacks was one of his highlights, as well as his speed seeing how fast he was able to intercept Burgess technique. His CoA mastery was also impressive, breaking the sword used by one of Doflamingo's strongest subordinates and shattering the hardened armor of one of Blackbeard's top commanders with what looked to be relative ease. He was also able to collapse the entire ring with a technique built around him using just his hardened fingers, overall giving him some of the best on panel CoA feats in the manga.

If he plays his cards right, his fight with Akainu should be fairly extended and problematic to a certain point even to someone as strong as the Red Dog. I do not think Sabo is at a point where he can question Akainu's dominance or chance at victory, but i do think some view this encounter as more one sided than it would actually be based on Ace's encounter from two years ago, encounter that has next to nothing to do with this one beside the Mera Mera, which again is not something Sabo is reliant on._


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## Shanks (Jun 3, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> Yes and because he can't. With the Mera Mera, he's about as strong as Marco and that's a high difficulty fight for Akainu. No way is a DFless Sabo giving him the same amount of difficulty.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __



The response to your post is here:



♦Young Master♦ said:


> Sabo was second in command of the Revo army before getting the Mera mera. Isn't that like the main argument that he's top tier?
> 
> If he's the 2nd strongest behind Dragon he should be comparable to the Admirals, and that's before consuming the devil fruit.






oOLawlietOo said:


> He wasn't fighting on even terms with Aokiji. We saw nothing from that fight except the cheap shots they gave each other and we saw which cheap shot took the other guy out which screams who is noticeably stronger.



We saw them start the fight and later saw that there were absolutely no scratch on Jozu or Aokiji and no one was showing any signs of panting, blood or anything, therefore the conclusion should be that in even terms they were fighting evenly with each other for that period of time, which is what Oda have being portraying to us. There is no reasons to believe otherwise.

The argument of this cheap shot business to say that an Admiral is significantly stronger than Jozu when not considering their mindset and Aokiji's abilities at that time is more or less favoring 1 side to another. Aokiji was a bad match for Jozu. If Jozu were to be  matched up with either Akainu or Kizaru, he would be able to do better. 

We need to also take into consideration that Jozu’s distraction was his father and brother about to die, which in term is a major distraction, whereas he was shown clearly that Aokiji saw Jozu coming at him and have that extra sec to react, therefore that those "cheap shot" isn't the same.


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## trance (Jun 3, 2014)

Admiral Aokiji said:


> The response to your post is here:



Except if Dragon himself is on the same level as the Admirals, then how can Sabo, who should be a level weaker than Dragon, also be at that level?


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## Shanks (Jun 3, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> Except if Dragon himself is on the same level as the Admirals, then how can Sabo, who should be a level weaker than Dragon, also be at that level?



Dude, the general concessis right now is that Dragon equal or stronger than Akainu and Sabo is about the same level as Fujitora or Old Sengoku. So in summary:

Dragon = > Akainu > Fujitora = Sengoku = Base Sabo, therefore Base Sabo giving Akainu high difficulties is fair if you believe that 2nd in command of the Revo actually means anything.


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 3, 2014)

Admiral Aokiji said:


> You're missing the point and basically wrote two long paragraphs to punch a drag doll. I never said there wasn't a DF advantage, I said people using the DF advantage in the way the did are retarded. Sabo doesn't need the use the Mera Mera no mi to fight and push Akainu to high nor does having the MMnM make him more vulnerable to the magma.



Er, no. Your banter of disagreeing with the concept of devil fruit weaknesses and advantages is the equivalent of beating a dead horse; nothing in that argument you showed gives off any semblance of intelligent discussion. I never once claimed you said that DF advantages didn't exist. However I did say that you shouldn't throw a worthless tempertantrum over something so easy to understand. I don't even understand that last sentence of yours. 

Sabo's fruit is weak against akainu's magma because in spite of allowing the user sufficient resistance to heat, it'll be inept in resisting against the heat from Akainu's magma due to the mera mera no mi being naturally weak against the Magu Magu no mi. Therefore, the conclusion is that its resistance to heat will not work against Akainu's magu magu no mi


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## Dr. White (Jun 3, 2014)

oOLawlietOo said:


> No he doesn't.



He has the best COA feats. Shanks has the best CoC feats, and Enel has the best Coo feats.


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## Shanks (Jun 3, 2014)

Lyrical-Messiah said:


> Er, no. Your banter of disagreeing with the concept of devil fruit weaknesses and advantages is the equivalent of beating a dead horse; nothing in that argument you showed gives off any semblance of intelligent discussion. I never once claimed you said that DF advantages didn't exist. However I did say that you shouldn't throw a worthless tempertantrum over something so easy to understand. I don't even understand that last sentence of yours.
> 
> Sabo's fruit is weak against akainu's magma because in spite of allowing the user sufficient resistance to heat, it'll be inept in resisting against the heat from Akainu's magma due to the mera mera no mi being naturally weak against the Magu Magu no mi. Therefore, the conclusion is that its resistance to heat will not work against Akainu's magu magu no mi



Are you fucken serious? I could not have explained it any clearer. MMnM current is useless again Magma, so don't FUCKEN use it. Simply as that. Blah Blah Blahing about how Fire works with Magma isn't part of the topic here, as I already pointed out earlier. 

The context of my original post was addressed to people who simply commented with smartass magma fists comments and this retarded OP poll. If you're not one of the person who believes he'll get low diff, stomp or whatever then stop this nonsense and stop posting non-response post. 

For fuck sake, the next time you post these nonsense again, I'll just post an article about shit or something because you obviously love off topic TL;DR and believe that putting any irrelevant text on screen seems to achieve something.


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## trance (Jun 3, 2014)

Admiral Aokiji said:


> Dude, the general concessis right now is that Dragon equal or stronger than Akainu and *Sabo is about the same level as Fujitora or Old Sengoku*. So in summary:
> 
> Dragon = > Akainu > Fujitora = Sengoku = Base Sabo, therefore Base Sabo giving Akainu high difficulties is fair if you believe that 2nd in command of the Revo actually means anything.



Based on what? 

Also, why would a retired Fleet Admiral in his 70s whose primary talent wasn't even combat in the first place be as strong as an Admiral 20 years younger and specifically hyped for his insane strength? 

IMO...

Sakazuki >= Dragon >= Fujitora > Sengoku > Sabo



Dr. White said:


> He has the best COA feats. Shanks has the best CoC feats, and *Enel has the best Coo feats*.



Yea, no. Issho's CoO is definitely more impressive.


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## Venom (Jun 3, 2014)

Admiral Aokiji said:


> Yeah, speaking loudly that Sabo have DF disadvantage to Akainu and now you're probably ignoring completely that Diamond can be a stronger defensive against magma than other fruits and that Jozu practically was fighting on even terms with MF top tiers until Oda decided to have him get rapped from the backside.



What I think is that Jozu's Diamond Body is quite irrelevant against Akainu's Haki.



Admiral Aokiji said:


> Dude, *the general concessis right now is that Dragon equal or stronger than Akainu* and Sabo is about the same level as Fujitora or Old Sengoku. So in summary:
> 
> Dragon = > Akainu> Fujitora = Sengoku = Base Sabo, therefore Base Sabo giving Akainu high difficulties is fair if you believe that 2nd in command of the Revo actually means anything.



How is that the general consensus? 
And even if, it doesn't mean shit


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## Dr. White (Jun 3, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> Yea, no. Issho's CoO is definitely more impressive.


Shit lol I forgot about him. But is it confirmed he uses COO to pull down the metoers? If so then obviously yeah, but if you are referring to him and the cloud panel then I'd still give it to Enel.


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## Shanks (Jun 3, 2014)

Venom said:


> What I think is that Jozu's Diamond Body is quite irrelevant against Akainu's Haki.
> 
> 
> 
> How is that the general consensus?



Oh... so we've finally address how haki work huh? Lolz, how do you know it "irrelevant"? I am not saying that Jozu will be able to do what he did to Mihawk's slash to Akainu's magma, but am saying that his DF will improve his overall defensive capabilities against Akainu's magma. Simply put, DF Jozu defensive > Non-DF Jozu. During the time that Jozu had a distration, Aokiji by past his DF and Haki and deep freeze him, but IMO if that was Akainu or Kizau, they would not be able to finish Jozu right there and then.

Go and make a poll about "Who's the Strongest Man in OP right now" in the OL and we'll see how Shanks and Dragon will beat Akainu by a landslide.


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## Shanks (Jun 3, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> Based on what?
> 
> Also, why would a retired Fleet Admiral in his 70s whose primary talent wasn't even combat in the first place be as strong as an Admiral 20 years younger and specifically hyped for his insane strength?
> 
> ...



Based on what? 

You go and write your TL;DR first and I'll considering writing mind. lol


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## babaGAReeb (Jun 3, 2014)

based on what?


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## Venom (Jun 3, 2014)

Admiral Aokiji said:


> Oh... so we've finally address how haki work huh? Lolz, how do you know it "irrelevant"? I am not saying that Jozu will be able to do what he did to Mihawk's slash to Akainu's magma, but am saying that his DF will improve his overall defensive capabilities against Akainu's magma. Simply put, DF Jozu defensive > Non-DF Jozu. During the time that Jozu had a distration, Aokiji by past his DF and Haki and deep freeze him, but IMO if that was Akainu or Kizau, they would not be able to finish Jozu right there and then.
> 
> Go and make a poll about "Who's the Strongest Man in OP right now" in the OL and we'll see how Shanks and Dragon will beat Akainu by a landslide.



Well of course it will somehow improve him.
But at the end of the day Jozu lacks the Haki to majorly hurt Akainu.
Like Marco and Vista. Both couldn't do shit to him.
That's why I also don't think that Sabo will be able to do shit to him as I don't see him on the level of characters like Marco.

And even if he is the 2nd strongest revo.
Overall the shown Revos till now were not that impressive that I could say "being the 2nd strongest Revo is = Admiral"

Like I already said in my post before.
Even if that is the general consensus it is irrelevant.


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## Shanks (Jun 3, 2014)

Got 60 mins before home time with no internet...


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## trance (Jun 3, 2014)

Dr. White said:


> Shit lol I forgot about him. But is it confirmed he uses COO to pull down the metoers? If so then obviously yeah, but if you are referring to him and the cloud panel then I'd still give it to Enel.



Issho is able to accurately locate and pull down meteors one at a time if he wishes. Plus, the mere fact he can fight at such a high intensity level despite being blind is enough to put him at least as Enel's equal IMO. As Law said, his blindness isn't even an issue in combat.



Admiral Aokiji said:


> Go and make a poll about "Who's the Strongest Man in OP right now" in the OL and we'll see how Shanks and Dragon will beat Akainu by a landslide.



I guarantee a majority will put Akainu in the top three. 



Admiral Aokiji said:


> Based on what?
> 
> You go and write your TL;DR first and I'll considering writing mind. lol


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 3, 2014)

Admiral Aokiji said:


> Are you fucken serious? I could not have explained it any clearer. MMnM current is useless again Magma, so don't FUCKEN use it. Simply as that. Blah Blah Blahing about how Fire works with Magma isn't part of the topic here, as I already pointed out earlier.
> 
> The context of my original post was addressed to people who simply commented with smartass magma fists comments and this retarded OP poll. If you're not one of the person who believes he'll get low diff, stomp or whatever then stop this nonsense and stop posting non-response post.
> 
> For fuck sake, the next time you post these nonsense again, I'll just post an article about shit or something because you obviously love off topic TL;DR and believe that putting any irrelevant text on screen seems to achieve something.




You're extremely wrong. To witness a person getting angry over something he himself could not understand is very funny indeed. You never explained anything. You're just arguing over irrelevant matters that do not even have any bearing to this topic. Your anger is funny considering it comes from absolute nothingness from that void space in your head that doesn't enable you to understand something in an efficient manner. The context of your post are hilariously off topic to the context of this debate.

Straw man. Straw man are a very low form of argumentation so please do not shove words in my mouth. I never once argued in favor of the characters being pitted against one another, I really cannot understand how you conclude that I am "One of those guys" which is very confusing. Why are you angry? Please do not get angry. No, I simply addressed to your post that stated that "Elemental disadvantage and advantages concerning Akainu's superiority over Sabo's fruit" was a simple concept to grasp as it's something that is applicable to all Devil fruit users. Therefore I didn't see any remote signs of intelligence in your arguing of Akainu's advantage over Sabo being stupid. Don't argue something that is literally impossible to argue. You're trying to impose your superiority over the Author's words to make it look like whatever fictional logic he applied is wrong. If you can't accept what he does, then do not read One piece. It obviously isn't for people like you.

Where did I go off topic? Can you provide me any sources in the earlier statements I made in which I supposedly did not address to your post but went off topic instead? Very immature of you to cry just because your notion was proven to be batshit asinine. It's okay, we all get proven wrong at times. There is nothing bad about being wrong. Where did I make a TL;DR post? Can you provide more sources to your claims? Are you unable to correctly interpret someone to the extent you have to make up lies of what they truly said? Oh, as for our last debate? Yeah, I actually thought I refuted your arguments and I have no shame in what I believe in. As opposed to you, your beliefs are wildly insane. Some of them though, just like what you wrote in here. Before you open your mouth, think about what you write first and don't utter nonsense to your opponent because it'll decrease your credibility by a lot.


----------



## babaGAReeb (Jun 3, 2014)

Admiral Aokiji said:


> Got 60 mins before home time with no internet...


u got a limit on ur internet?


----------



## LyricalMessiah (Jun 3, 2014)

"The next time you post these nonsense again" Admiral aokiji, think before you speak and the one who has been spouting nonsense is not I, but you. Don't get mad just because you were opposed by someone. If you don't like having a proper discussion, then delete your account and move on with your life. What I wrote was addressing to your comment that said Akainu's elemental advantage over Sabo is irrelevant. I explain how it wasn't "Irrelevant" You then cry like a little baby just because you can't handle being proven wrong..


----------



## Shanks (Jun 3, 2014)

Venom said:


> But at the end of the day Jozu lacks the Haki to majorly hurt Akainu.
> Like Marco and Vista. Both couldn't do shit to him.



This argument is in conclusion, because Akainu was able to hurt Marco or Vista also.

And the fact that we saw both Marco and Jozu intracting with an Admiral?s real body meaning that they can hurt them. It just comes down to 




Venom said:


> That's why I also don't think that Sabo will be able to do shit to him as I don't see him on the level of characters like Marco.
> 
> And even if he is the 2nd strongest revo.
> Overall the shown Revos till now were not that impressive that I could say "being the 2nd strongest Revo is = Admiral"
> ...


My post copy and paste directly from another thread:

*Feats ? He did all this with 1 casual dragon talon move:*
-	Casually dicking around with Burgess and Diamante the entire fight
-	Destroyed a coliseum arena that was designed with the level of durability that can withstand power of multiple high tier level fighters fighting
-	Evaporating all the water
-	Control the power to the extended it ensnare a Vergo level executive
-	Ring out Burgess
-	Only destroying the  coliseum arena and did not hit the stadium to prevent civilians getting hurt
-	Leaving a pillar left for him to stand on
-	Did not hurt Rebecca in the cross fire

This feat is not to say he?s Admiral Level, because Fujitora did something better by levitating a battleship and summoning 3 meteors while eating ramen. What Sabo?s feats (& Fujitora?s feats) are telling us is that these two guys can do significantly more and they are still holding back a large portion of their power. As a result, feats alone is not enough to estimate Sabo?s power and what he can do when he goes all out will be significantly, therefore hypes & portrayal is important.

*Hypes & Portrayal*
1)	Ace + Two Years ? actually this is more like Ace + many years, because Sabo joined Dragon?s crew way before Ace even starts his journey and starts rolling with the like of WB pirates. We saw how strong Law & M3 got stronger from mid-tier/rear admiral level in 2 years of training/experience.
2)	Luffy?s older brother and recently introduced ? we saw how strong Ace was comparing to Luffy when Ace was first introduced. Why would Sabo be any different now? And the fact that Luffy is ready to solo Doflamingo this arc gives Sabo even better hype.
3)	Second in Commander of the Revolution Army ? to understand what this means, we need to look estimate how strong Dragon could be.


*How Strong is Dragon*
-	The son off the legendary hero of the marines who corned the Pirate King multiple times, defeat and capture Shiki. 
-	The father of the legendary pirate who wreak chaos in all 3 of marine Enies Lobby, Impel down, and Marineford and the person that is going to destroy all One Piece antagonist and become the next Pirate King. 
-	The Will of D ? Whitebeard?s final word: "and someday...bearing the weight of all those centuries upon his back...a man will come forth to challenge this world. Sengoku....you are living in fear of that great battle that will someday engulf the entire world....when somebody finally finds that treasure...the world will be turned upside down!"
-	lead the biggest group of criminals in the world
-	have the highest bounty in the world and the world?s most dangerous man
-	Akainu view ?Dragon?s Son? to be more of a priority than the WB pirates and Teach
-	Revolution is currently being built and hype up to have one of the craziest clashes with the world government later in the series

All this is implying that Dragon is at least Yonkou level and a candidate for the world?s strongest man and of course runs an organisation that rivals the marines.

*Sabo, being the Second in Commander of the Revolution Army* means that he?s weaker than Dragon, but stronger than everyone else and also means that Sabo in base is at least around a Yonkou?s first mate level. So far, we?ve only seen 3 first mates, that is Marco, Beckmann and Rayleigh and everything these guys have shown so far is absolute top tier level and can at least take on an older out of shape Admiral in the form of Sengoku or a newly appointed Admiral (with a new fruit) in Fujitora.

Everything that has being said is only feats, hypes & portrayal and portrayal of base Sabo.


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## babaGAReeb (Jun 3, 2014)

he cry like baby lol


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## trance (Jun 3, 2014)

> - The Will of D – Whitebeard’s final word: "and someday...bearing the weight of all those centuries upon his back...a man will come forth to challenge this world. Sengoku....you are living in fear of that great battle that will someday engulf the entire world....when somebody finally finds that treasure...the world will be turned upside down!"



Pretty sure that's Luffy not Dragon.



> - have the highest bounty in the world and the world’s most dangerous man



Most dangerous =/= strongest. Perfect example is Doffy. He's not even close to being the strongest pirate but with his cunning, political power and vast amount of connections and resourcefulness, he is personally considered by Kuzan to pose the greatest threat to Marine HQ.


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## Shanks (Jun 3, 2014)

Lyrical-Messiah said:


> "The next time you post these nonsense again? Admiral aokiji, think before you speak and the one who has been spouting nonsense is not I, but you. Don't get mad just because you were opposed by someone. If you don't like having a proper discussion, then delete your account and move on with your life. What I wrote was addressing to your comment that said Akainu's elemental advantage over Sabo is irrelevant. I explain how it wasn't "Irrelevant" You then cry like a little baby just because you can't handle being proven wrong..



And when I did i said irrelevant in the original post?

Here's it is again:



> This DF advantage business is retarded. Akainu burns Sabo exactly the same legality as he would burn anyone else of the same level. Currently, Mera Mera no mi doesn't help that much against any top tier (Bar Kuzan) due to lack on control and experience so having the DF or not make absolutely no difference when fighting Akaiun, Kizaru, Shanks or any other top tier for that matter.
> 
> That said, base Sabo can give Akainu high difficulties and that?s how the fight will end. Even if you believe Sabo is only Jozu level, then it should still be the high end of mid dif. Anyone who says low diff, stomp or similar responses either have very retarded reading comprehension or simply have being suck on the red dog?s tiny cock for way to long, they lose their own self identify and no longer remember their mother?s and her puppies name.


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 3, 2014)

Admiral Aokiji said:


> And when I did i said irrelevant in the original post?
> 
> Here's it is again:



Urm, Irrelevant equates to retarded in this context. I meant retarded anyways. I argued why it wasn't retarded.

If you believe it's retarded, then you are free to believe it is retarded but just understand your opinion on it being retarded is not objective.

I am done here. Call me when you have something intelligent to discuss with me instead of throwing a temper-tantrum.


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## Shanks (Jun 3, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> Pretty sure that's Luffy not Dragon.
> 
> 
> 
> Most dangerous =/= strongest. Perfect example is Doffy. He's not even close to being the strongest pirate but with his cunning, political power and vast amount of connections and resourcefulness, he is personally considered by Kuzan to pose the greatest threat to Marine HQ.



And how do you know that "Will of D" is specific to 1 person? The dude is a D. and a Monkey D. at that.

Most dangerous doesn't make he's the strongest, but I considered him as the Strongest based on everything that's listed, not just his bounty alone.


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## babaGAReeb (Jun 3, 2014)

weel of da dick


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## Shanks (Jun 3, 2014)

Lyrical-Messiah said:


> Urm, Irrelevant equates to retarded in this context. I meant retarded anyways. I argued why it wasn't retarded.
> 
> If you believe it's retarded, then you are free to believe it is retarded but just understand your opinion on it being retarded is not objective.
> 
> I am done here. Call me when you have something intelligent to discuss with me instead of throwing a temper-tantrum.



No, retarded is retarded.

To put it into context, base Sabo can give Akainu a certain amount of difficulties. However, because he has the MMnM and that Akainu had than advantage over Ace, people automatically thinks that the difficulties is reduced is RETARDED. 

Good bye.


----------



## Venom (Jun 3, 2014)

Admiral Aokiji said:


> This argument is in conclusion, because Akainu was able to hurt Marco or Vista also.
> 
> And the fact that we saw both Marco and Jozu intracting with an Admiral?s real body meaning that they can hurt them. It just comes down to



The reason why I said they can't *majorly* hurt him.
Akainu also said that it was a nuisance but he didn't receive any major damages at all.




> My post copy and paste directly from another thread:
> 
> *Feats ? He did all this with 1 casual dragon talon move:*
> -	Casually dicking around with Burgess and Diamante the entire fight
> ...



-Akainu would have pretty much fisted Burgess and Dimante together with just one punch 
-The colisseum arena argument. Damn. One sword strike of Zoro or one G3 Punch of Luffy 
would have destroyed that thing.
-Evaporating all the water. Such a strong feat. Bro are you serious? 
-All those arguments are so weak I don't even know how to respond.
Hit the colloseum but not the stadium. Top kek
Did not hurt Rebecca in the cross fire. 



This feat is not to say he?s Admiral Level, because Fujitora did something better by levitating a battleship and summoning 3 meteors while eating ramen. What Sabo?s feats (& Fujitora?s feats) are telling us is that these two guys can do significantly more and they are still holding back a large portion of their power. As a result, feats alone is not enough to estimate Sabo?s power and what he can do when he goes all out will be significantly, therefore hypes & portrayal is important.



> *Hypes & Portrayal*
> 1)	Ace + Two Years ? actually this is more like Ace + many years, because Sabo joined Dragon?s crew way before Ace even starts his journey and starts rolling with the like of WB pirates. We saw how strong Law & M3 got stronger from mid-tier/rear admiral level in 2 years of training/experience.
> 2)	Luffy?s older brother and recently introduced ? we saw how strong Ace was comparing to Luffy when Ace was first introduced. Why would Sabo be any different now? And the fact that Luffy is ready to solo Doflamingo this arc gives Sabo even better hype.
> 3)	Second in Commander of the Revolution Army ? to understand what this means, we need to look estimate how strong Dragon could be.



1) Ace + 2 years =/= Admiral level
2) Luffy's older brother=/= Admiral level
3) SIC of Revos =/= Admiral level




> *How Strong is Dragon*
> -	The son off the legendary hero of the marines who corned the Pirate King multiple times, defeat and capture Shiki.
> -	The father of the legendary pirate who wreak chaos in all 3 of marine Enies Lobby, Impel down, and Marineford and the person that is going to destroy all One Piece antagonist and become the next Pirate King.
> -	The Will of D ? Whitebeard?s final word: "and someday...bearing the weight of all those centuries upon his back...a man will come forth to challenge this world. Sengoku....you are living in fear of that great battle that will someday engulf the entire world....when somebody finally finds that treasure...the world will be turned upside down!"
> ...



Irrelevant as this describes just how strong Dragon is and has nothing to do with Sabo.
Mihawk would also stomp Iva but after 2 years of training Zoro is not massively stronger than Sanji.



> *Sabo, being the Second in Commander of the Revolution Army* means that he?s weaker than Dragon, but stronger than everyone else and also means that Sabo in base is at least around a Yonkou?s first mate level. So far, we?ve only seen 3 first mates, that is Marco, Beckmann and Rayleigh and everything these guys have shown so far is absolute top tier level and can at least take on an older out of shape Admiral in the form of Sengoku or a newly appointed Admiral (with a new fruit) in Fujitora.




I will just repeat what I said.
Revo 2nd =/= Admiral level

Of course this is just what I think.


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## babaGAReeb (Jun 3, 2014)

he got point mang, i think da magma fruit does have a advantage over fire fruite

akainu did say "our powers are in a relationship of superiority"

since sabo ate fire fruit he would have weakness 2 magma 2 i think


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 3, 2014)

Admiral Aokiji said:


> No, retarded is retarded.
> 
> To put it into context, base Sabo can give Akainu a certain amount of difficulties. However, because he has the MMnM and that Akainu had than advantage over Ace, people automatically thinks that the difficulties is reduced is RETARDED.
> 
> Good bye.



You don't know how to contrast words properly in their proper context, do you? Words are just generalizations, no need to think of them in their respective meaning. No, your argument that you made of which spoke about how Akainu's magma being naturally superior to Sabo's fire fire no mi defense, which is a concept applicable to all devil fruit, was an irrelevant subject for you to argue over. In other words, you can say it was retarded.

I never said Base sabo can beat Akainu or Akainu can beat Sabo. If you want my opinion on the matter, Akainu takes this with high difficulty. Nothing more, nothing else. I don't think anything is reduced. I just expressed my input of your statement that said Akainu's elemental advantage over sabo was retarded was something not worthy to argue over.


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## Shanks (Jun 3, 2014)

Replies in red:




Venom said:


> The reason why I said they can't *majorly* hurt him.
> Akainu also said that it was a nuisance but he didn't receive any major damages at all.
> 
> And My reponse was that Akainu fought both Marco and Vista on more than 1 occasion, but could hurt either one of them? How would you counter that?
> ...


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## trance (Jun 3, 2014)

Admiral Aokiji said:


> And how do you know that "Will of D" is specific to 1 person? The dude is a D. and a Monkey D. at that.



But it's pretty much guaranteed that Luffy is the man Whitebeard was talking about.



> Most dangerous doesn't make he's the strongest, but I considered him as the Strongest based on everything that's listed, not just his bounty alone.



I'm not saying that he's not Admiral/Yonko level. He is or at least he should be but Akainu also has some pretty massive hype and portrayal and in addition to his feats, that's enough for me to give him the edge over Dragon.


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## Venom (Jun 3, 2014)

Admiral Aokiji said:
			
		

> And My reponse was that Akainu fought both Marco and Vista on more than 1 occasion, but could hurt either one of them? How would you counter that?


You really wanna argue right now whether Akainu could have bitchslapped Marco/Vista or not?? 
I don't need to counter anything here. 



> Did Sabo not do that with 1 dragon talon and do alot more in the process? You're not helping with your argument



He destroyed the arena with one punch. He didn't defeat the other members in one punch. That's a big difference. 




> You must have forgotten to read the part when I wrote that he did all this in 1 hit, right?



No I didn't.
The argument is still horrible. Wow he didn't hurt Rebecca and evaporated all the water. So cool.
Much Top Tier.




> And why are you copying what I wrote and pasting it here?


Forgot to quote-tag it



> WTF? Dragon is Captian and Sabo is first mate (give or take) and you out right say it's irrelevant? Geez.
> 
> Sanji is strong due to a combination of teaching, will & resolve, training, potential, etc, not just teacher alone. Same with Sabo and same with Zoro.



Whitebeard was the captain and Marco was his first mate. Whitebeard played on a much higher league than Marco did. Luffy is the captain and Zoro is his first mate. They are close in power.
Now tell me again how being the 2nd of the revo means that you can automatically compete with the likes of Akainu.
At best I give Sabo the chance at being on Marco's level. And this is just me being nice now.
I am also not fond with all this tier talk. Whether Sabo is on the how you call "Admiral Tier" or not is irrelevant as fighting against Fujitora would be a complete different thing than fighting against Akainu.
Akainu has the advantage of a Logia DF which we have seen can not be harmed unless your Haki is strong enough. 
Marco's and Vista's Haki were not strong enough to do any kind of relevant damage to him.
Can't see Sabo's Haki>Marco's Haki so for me it means Akainu>>Sabo.



> 1)	Safe Players/Fence Sitter – these guys are not 100% sure where to scale Sabo because he has the hypes and portrayal to be a top tier, but not the feats, therefore they choose to sit on the side line and scale him anywhere between say Jozu – Marco.
> 2)	Admirals Supporters – These guys have being C3 supporters for many years and view Admirals as being the strongest group of people in OP and is afraid that any protagonist would close the Gap between the Admirals and continues to denial the inevitable.
> 3)	Visionary – These guys understand and appreciate how the writer hypes a character and scale the power level accordingly based on their understanding of what the author have given us. Sure, sometimes the hypes can be over rated such a Fisher Tiger’s hype but at the same time these hypes could turn out to be true such as Shanks being a candidate for WSM and then was able to stop the war. We are not always right, but we make plausible and intellectual bets without having 100% of the evident with good odds


.


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## Orca (Jun 3, 2014)

Starkiller said:
			
		

> Sakazuki >= Dragon >= Fujitora > Sengoku > Sabo



Fujitora equal to Dragon?  

Nah Brah


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## Daisuke Jigen (Jun 3, 2014)

Venom said:


> You really wanna argue right now whether Akainu could have bitchslapped Marco/Vista or not??
> I don't need to counter anything here.
> 
> 
> ...


Dammit, I'm 24ed.  Will rep when I can.


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## trance (Jun 3, 2014)

Luffee said:


> Fujitora equal to Dragon?
> 
> Nah Brah



And why not? Why is it so much of a stretch to say that Issho possesses comparable power to Dragon? Why must he absolutely be weaker?


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## Orca (Jun 3, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> And why not? Why is it so much of a stretch to say that Issho possesses comparable power to Dragon? Why must he absolutely be weaker?





Stαrkiller said:


> Base Sabo giving Akainu high difficulty?



You wouldn't mind me asking the same question would you? Why is it laughable to think Base Sabo can give high diff to Akainu?


Keep in mind, I don't necessarily think Base Sabo can give high diff to Akainu. I'm just wondering why a person who was laughing at the notion of base Sabo  giving High diff to Akainu is now asking me why Fujitora has to be weaker than Dragon.


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## Magician (Jun 3, 2014)

When did the Admiral wank get so terrible lately?


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## trance (Jun 3, 2014)

Luffee said:


> You wouldn't mind me asking the same question would you? Why is it laughable to think Base Sabo can give high diff to Akainu?
> 
> 
> Keep in mind, I don't necessarily think Base Sabo can give high diff to Akainu. I'm just wondering why a person who was laughing at the notion of base Sabo  giving High diff to Akainu is now asking me why Fujitora has to be weaker than Dragon.



Oh that? That was me trolling Sabo (Admiral Aokiji).


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## Admiral Kizaru (Jun 3, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> And why not? Why is it so much of a stretch to say that Issho possesses comparable power to Dragon? Why must he absolutely be weaker?



Honestly, Dragon and his Mera Mera No Mi boy subordinate are getting the classic Fisher Tiger treatment on here. It's going to happen all over again.  



And good post Venom. Why do the marines and the Revo's have to exactly parallel one another? The marines are much larger and stronger organisation with almost global influence, who bring rule and order to the majority of the world through their weight of numbers and power. They operate out in the open and actively challenge pirates including the Yonkou, now that Sakazuki is in charge. There's far too many differences between the institutions to try and use equivalent rankings between them to try and pair up strength levels. It really isn't a sensible approach. 


OT: Sakazuki violates Sabo anus. Medium at max though it'll be more low at this stage.


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## Extravlad (Jun 3, 2014)

All the revolutionaries we saw so far were fodders and overhyped.
Ivankov got stomped by Magellan and Sakazuki.
Kuma was not even close to be toptier.
Inazuma is weaker than Ivan, fodder as well.

If this is what you need to overcome in order to be Dragon's right hand then even Current Luffy could be the number 2.


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## Magician (Jun 3, 2014)

@Marco/Vista situation

Saying Marco and Vista are incapable of damaging Akainu with their level of haki with a generic no named attack is like saying Fujitora is incapable of causing lasting injuries to Zoro after Zoro tanked his generic no named gravity attack. It's dumb.


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## Gervin (Jun 3, 2014)

♦Young Master♦ said:


> @Marco/Vista situation
> 
> Saying Marco and Vista are incapable of damaging Akainu with their level of haki with a generic no named attack is like saying Fujitora is incapable of causing lasting injuries to Zoro after Zoro tanked his generic no named gravity attack. It's dumb.



Marco and Vista have only shown generic, no named attacks.  If they were gonna pull out the big guns, you would figure they would do so at MF and especially against Akainu in that particular situation.


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## Magician (Jun 3, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> All the revolutionaries we saw so far were fodders and overhyped.
> Ivankov got stomped by Magellan and Sakazuki.
> Kuma was not even close to be toptier.
> Inazuma is weaker than Ivan, fodder as well.
> ...



Most of Whitebeard's commanders were weaksauce compared to Top Tiers. I guess that means the WSM's pirate crew are filled with fodder as well.

You can't compare 2-3 commanders and say that the whole group are a bunch of overhyped "fodders". That's like looking at Commander Atmos and Curiel and assuming the whole group are around their level as well.

That's a terrible argument.


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## Extravlad (Jun 3, 2014)

No that's not because Ivankov/Kuma aren't fodders in the army, they were hyped a lot and we saw them with Dragon at Goa Kingdom 12 years ago.
You can compare them with Jozu/Vista in term of importance.


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## Magician (Jun 3, 2014)

Gervin said:


> Marco and Vista have only shown generic, no named attacks.  If they were gonna pull out the big guns, you would figure they would do so at MF and especially against Akainu in that particular situation.



Nobody pulled out their big guns at MF besides Whitebeard. Sengoku had every reason imaginable to kill Luffy at the podium, yet he barely even hurt him. Does that mean Sengoku can't hurt Luffy too?

And Marco and Vista weren't attempting to fight Akainu. Their objective was to save Luffy and gtfo, not to get into an all out fight with an Admiral.


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## Magician (Jun 3, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> No that's not because Ivankov/Kuma aren't fodders in the army, they were hyped a lot and we saw them with Dragon at Goa Kingdom 12 years ago.
> You can compare them with Jozu/Vista in term of importance.



The Revolutionaries are amongst the most ambiguous and important factions in the entire manga. We're definitely gonna see more Revo officer's in the future. I highly doubt Iva/Kuma are the 3rd strongest in the group.

Whether you like it or not, the Revo's are one of the most important groups in the manga and are going to make a huge impact in the story. This is a manga where almost every conflict is resolved through fighting. I'm pretty sure Oda intends for them to be a strong faction, especially since Garp's son and Luffy's father is the head of it and one of the ASL brother's are working in it as well.

They're not gonna be just some ragtag group of fodder's.


----------



## TheWiggian (Jun 3, 2014)

♦Young Master♦ said:


> The Revolutionaries are amongst the most ambiguous and important factions in the entire manga. We're definitely gonna see more Revo officer's in the future. I highly doubt Iva/Kuma are the 3rd strongest in the group.
> 
> Whether you like it or not, the Revo's are one of the most important groups in the manga and are going to make a huge impact in the story. This is a manga where almost every conflict is resolved through fighting. I'm pretty sure Oda intends for them to be a strong faction, especially since Garp's son and Luffy's father is the head of it and one of the ASL brother's are working in it as well.
> 
> They're not gonna be just some ragtag group of fodder's.



Revos could be just like WB's family with Dragon (WB) being far ahead of the others like Marco, Vista, Jozu (Iva, Kuma, Sabo) nothing suggests that Sabo would be closer to Dragon as Marco was to WB. Hes not a weakling but hes got no chance against Akainu/Admirals at all, he will survive for a bit but sooner or later he'll run out of stamina or get one shot in a minute of distraction. Since hes got nothing that puts him close to an admiral pls stop this sh1tty Sabo wank.


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## Magician (Jun 3, 2014)

TheWiggian said:


> Revos could be just like WB's family with Dragon (WB) being far ahead of the others like Marco, Vista, Jozu (Iva, Kuma, Sabo) nothing suggests that Sabo would be closer to Dragon as Marco was to WB. Hes not a weakling but hes got no chance against Akainu/Admirals at all, he will survive for a bit but sooner or later he'll run out of stamina or get one shot in a minute of distraction. Since hes got nothing that puts him close to an admiral pls stop this sh1tty Sabo wank.



Guess who's gonna stalemate Fujitora this arc?


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## Extravlad (Jun 3, 2014)

The Revolutionaries are an important because of their ideas and what they are trying to do.
If they were that strong they could have taken down the WG right after the Whitebeard's war.
Sabo being the 2nd strongest of their army is just pathetic, He wouldn't be number 2 if he was in the marines.


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## Gervin (Jun 3, 2014)

♦Young Master♦ said:


> Nobody pulled out their big guns at MF besides Whitebeard. Sengoku had every reason imaginable to kill Luffy at the podium, yet he barely even hurt him. Does that mean Sengoku can't hurt Luffy too?
> 
> And Marco and Vista weren't attempting to fight Akainu. Their objective was to save Luffy and gtfo, not to get into an all out fight with an Admiral.



Nobody went all out consistently, but we did see most top tiers use their stronger attacks.  Aokiji did three Ice Ages and an Ice Time to take out Jozu, Kizaru spammed light kicks and Yasakani no Magatama the entire war, and Akainu was magmafisting left and right.  The strongest attack Marco showed was his kick to Kizaru.  Or his kick to Aokiji.  Or his kick to Akainu.  No Admiral was visibly impacted by any of these.  Maybe he could kick harder, I don't know, but he showed no real offensive firepower that entire arc.  Granted the only people he attacked were Admirals, but that's kinda my whole point.  I would be higher on Marco's ability to damage an Admiral if he, you know, actually damaged an Admiral.


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## TheWiggian (Jun 3, 2014)

♦Young Master♦ said:


> Guess who's gonna stalemate Fujitora this arc?




?hm Zoro? Yep after hes done with Pica, he will hold off Fuji. Thanks for opening my eyes


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## Magician (Jun 3, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> The Revolutionaries are an important because of their ideas and what they are trying to do.
> If they were that strong they could have taken down the WG right after the Whitebeard's war.



Not even Prime Roger's crew could take out the WG at this point in the manga, that doesn't mean the Revo's aren't strong, lol.



> A 22 years old kid being the 2nd strongest of their army is just pathetic, Sabo wouldn't be number 2 if he was in the marines



Guess who's gonna be the pirate king at 19?


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## Sir Curlyhat (Jun 3, 2014)

_A 20 years old kid will become the Pirate King though. Also the reasoning for the Revolutionaries not straight out starting a war goes beyond their lack of military power. They seem to want to produce the change from within different countries most of the time, not just take by force the power from a corrupt WG and call themselves the new leaders of a world that might just perceive them as oppressors. I as well believe the WG overall surpasses the military might of the Revolutionaries, but that does not mean it's impossible for the Revolutionaries to have anyone else beside Dragon that is comparable to the Admirals._


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## TheWiggian (Jun 3, 2014)

♦Young Master♦ said:


> Not even Prime Roger's crew could take out the WG at this point in the manga, that doesn't mean the Revo's aren't strong, lol.



Prime Rogers crew couldn't do it cuz Roger was dying, it was even stated somewhere in the Manga.



♦Young Master♦ said:


> Guess who's gonna be the pirate king at 19?



No need to sprout nonsense.


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## Magician (Jun 3, 2014)

Gervin said:


> Nobody went all out consistently, but we did see most top tiers use their stronger attacks.  Aokiji did three Ice Ages and an Ice Time to take out Jozu, Kizaru spammed light kicks and Yasakani no Magatama the entire war, and Akainu was magmafisting left and right.  The strongest attack Marco showed was his kick to Kizaru.  Or his kick to Aokiji.  Or his kick to Akainu.  No Admiral was visibly impacted by any of these.  Maybe he could kick harder, I don't know, but he showed no real offensive firepower that entire arc.  Granted the only people he attacked were Admirals, but that's kinda my whole point.  I would be higher on Marco's ability to damage an Admiral if he, you know, actually damaged an Admiral.



None of those attacks are they're strongest moves. They're spammable casual attacks like Luffy's gatling gun, I highly doubt that that's the most the admiral's can do.

And every one of Marco's exchanges were casual exchanges. That's like saying Whitebeard is incapable of damaging Kizaru and Aokiji since none of his attacks did anything to them when they clashed.


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## Magician (Jun 3, 2014)

TheWiggian said:


> No need to sprout nonsense.



How is that nonsense? Luffy's gonna be pirate king by the time he's 19/20 that's fact.


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## Extravlad (Jun 3, 2014)

> Guess who's gonna be the pirate king at 19?


Where did you read that Luffy is gonna be PK at 19?
Luffy right now is WAY weaker than Sakazuki according to Oda himself.

And my point still stands, even if Luffy becomes PK at 19, Sabo isn't Luffy, every "big-name" at 22 years old was weak and far from being admiral it includes Roger,Garp,Sengoku,Shanks,Sakazuki,Newgate,Borsalino,Kuzan.


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## Dr. White (Jun 3, 2014)

♦Young Master♦ said:


> How is that nonsense? Luffy's gonna be pirate king by the time he's 19/20 that's fact.



that is not fact, Luffy is already 19. Luffy is working his ass off with the help of multiple high tier allies, his potentially top tier brother, and a moral admiral that may help out as well, all against a dude who was shitting his pants at the thought of fighting a Yonko. Oda isn't stopping OP anytime soon bar health reasons, and I'd say we easily have a half a decade to a decade and a half left of the story. Oda has so much to fill in, and Luffy is going to have to jump in power from Mid high tier (where he is now) to atleast Low Top tier - Mid Top tier before he thinks about raftel.


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## Magician (Jun 3, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> Where did you read that Luffy is gonna be PK at 19?
> Luffy right now is WAY weaker than Sakazuki according to Oda himself.



Unless you think there's gonna be another time skip, Luffy's gonna be PK at 19/20.



> And my point still stands, even if Luffy becomes PK at 19, Sabo isn't Luffy, every "big-name" at 22 years old was weak and far from being admiral it includes Roger,Garp,Sengoku,Shanks,Sakazuki,Newgate,Borsalino,Kuzan.



Law, X Drake, Kid, Killer, Luffy, Zoro, Sanji are all gonna be top tiers by the end of this manga. 

Ages don't mean shit, dude.


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## Gervin (Jun 3, 2014)

♦Young Master♦ said:


> None of those attacks are they're strongest moves. They're spammable casual attacks like Luffy's gatling gun, I highly doubt that that's the most the admiral's can do.
> 
> And every one of Marco's exchanges were casual exchanges. That's like saying Whitebeard is incapable of damaging Kizaru and Aokiji since none of his attacks did anything to them when they clashed.



They're their strongest attacks seen so far in the manga.  Going by what we've seen, Ice Age is Aokiji's strongest attack, Ryuusei Kazan is Akainu's strongest attack, Yasakani no Magatama is Kizaru's strongest attack, and a kick is Marco's strongest attack.  They might be able to do more, but that's speculation.  I'm all for speculation to an extent, but you seem to be heavily relying on it in this thread.  Sabo is gonna stalemate Fujitora, Luffy is going to be PK at 19, nobody at MF showed their strongest attack.  Any one of these I can believe on their own, but when they need to be piled together to form an argument, I would like to see something a little more concrete to back it up.


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## Extravlad (Jun 3, 2014)

> Unless you think there's gonna be another time skip, Luffy's gonna be PK at 19/20.


If Akainu needs a year to put an end to One Piece then yea Luffy will need more than this.



> Law, X Drake, Kid, Killer, Luffy, Zoro, Sanji are all gonna be top tiers by the end of this manga.


And none of them is 19.
 All of them are older than Luffy, only Sanji and Zoro are younger than Sabo/Ace.


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## Magician (Jun 3, 2014)

Dr. White said:


> that is not fact, Luffy is already 19. Luffy is working his ass off with the help of multiple high tier allies, his potentially top tier brother, and a moral admiral that may help out as well, all against a dude who was shitting his pants at the thought of fighting a Yonko. Oda isn't stopping OP anytime soon bar health reasons, and I'd say we easily have a half a decade to a decade and a half left of the story. Oda has so much to fill in, and Luffy is going to have to jump in power from Mid high tier (where he is now) to atleast Low Top tier - Mid Top tier before he thinks about raftel.



Real life time =/= manga time.

There's been like 3 years since the time skip and only like 2-3 days in manga time.

East Blue to Marineford was 1 year max, manga time. Think about how much Luffy's grown in that amount of time.


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## Lawliet (Jun 3, 2014)

Luffy has a crazy growth rate, it's scary.


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## Dr. White (Jun 3, 2014)

♦Young Master♦ said:


> Real life time =/= manga time.
> 
> There's been like 3 years since the time skip and only like 2-3 days in manga time.
> 
> East Blue to Marineford was 1 year max, manga time. Think about how much Luffy's grown in that amount of time.



I understand this but Luffy will have so much experience, knowledge, and maturity to attain before Raftel. He will undoubtedly age. I'm expecting him to be in his early-mid 20's during Raftel/ One Piece climax. 

The 1 year was a chronicle of Luffy and his gaining of a crew and notoriety of course it is going to go by slow, but it is different now. Were are in the big leagues, things will be much more complicated. Also it is harder tor Raise your tier the higher you go. Luffy going from mid low tier - high mid tier in a year was impressive no doubt, but going from Doflamingo level (high high tier) to Kaido level (mid top tier) is a big stretch and not so easily traversed.


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## Magician (Jun 3, 2014)

Gervin said:


> They're their strongest attacks seen so far in the manga.  Going by what we've seen, Ice Age is Aokiji's strongest attack, Ryuusei Kazan is Akainu's strongest attack, Yasakani no Magatama is Kizaru's strongest attack, and a kick is Marco's strongest attack.  They might be able to do more, but that's speculation.  I'm all for speculation to an extent, but you seem to be heavily relying on it in this thread.  Sabo is gonna stalemate Fujitora, Luffy is going to be PK at 19, nobody at MF showed their strongest attack.  Any one of these I can believe on their own, but when they need to be piled together to form an argument, I would like to see something a little more concrete to back it up.



Luffy being PK at the end of the manga is still speculation, Oda could make Usopp take his place if he wanted to. You don't need concrete proof to state the obvious. It's not hard to understand Oda's writing and interpret a story.

Saying that that's the _*max*_ a character can do because that's all they've shown in an arc where nobody went all out and almost every exchange between characters were casual is retarded.

That's like saying the _*most*_ Sabo can do is destroy a ring just because he casually did so and that's all he's shown. Or that the *most* Diamante can do is beat a couple fodder, or the *most* Trebol can do is destroy a ship. It's dumb.

Fujitora didn't cause any heavy damage to Zoro when they clashed, does that mean he can't? Whitebeard didn't do any damage whatsoever to Aokiji and Kizaru during their exchanges, does that mean he can't? Sengoku barely hurt Luffy at all at the podium, does that mean he can't? Garp barely hurt Marco, does that mean he's incapable of it?

Saying Marco is incapable of hurting the Admirals when he barely went all out is the same logic. And by that logic the Admirals can't cause Marco any injuries either since they didn't during the war without having to use seastone.


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## Venom (Jun 3, 2014)

♦Young Master♦ said:


> @Marco/Vista situation
> 
> Saying Marco and Vista are incapable of damaging Akainu with their level of haki with a generic no named attack is like saying Fujitora is incapable of causing lasting injuries to Zoro after Zoro tanked his generic no named gravity attack. It's dumb.



How is it relevant whether it was a named attack or not?
As you have said as well it is quite obvious that Marco and Vista tried to do their best at saving Luffy so there is no reason to believe that they used a weaker form of their Haki to strike Akainu.


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## Gervin (Jun 3, 2014)

♦Young Master♦ said:


> Luffy being PK at the end of the manga is still speculation, Oda could make Usopp take his place if he wanted to. You don't need concrete proof to state the obvious. It's not hard to understand Oda's writing and interpret a story.
> 
> Saying that that's the _*max*_ a character can do because that's all they've shown in an arc where nobody went all out and almost every exchange between characters were casual is retarded.
> 
> ...



You're implying that all theories have the same legitimate backing.  Luffy becoming PK is speculation, although it is pretty obvious.  And some may speculate that Usopp will become PK.  Some speculation has more concrete backing than others.  The three examples of speculation I brought up in my last post are far from obvious.

Fujitora has feats that show he can do more than what he did to Zoro.  Whitebeard shook Marineford and KOd Akainu.  Sengoku held off the entire Blackbeard Pirate crew.  Marco doesn't have anything close to those feats.  Literally the best offensive showing he has is kicking Kizaru.


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## Magician (Jun 3, 2014)

Venom said:


> How is it relevant whether it was a named attack or not?



Cause this is shonen. Named attacks >>> unnamed, 99% of the time.



> As you have said as well it is quite obvious that Marco and Vista tried to do their best at saving Luffy so there is no reason to believe that they used a weaker form of their Haki to strike Akainu.



Quite obvious Luffy wanted to save Viola and Toy Soldier from Gladius. Why wouldn't Luffy use his strongest attack on him to take him out? That means jet stamp is obvs Luffy's strongest attack and the most he can do.


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## Magician (Jun 3, 2014)

> Fujitora has feats that show he can do more than what he did to Zoro.  Whitebeard shook Marineford and KOd Akainu.  Sengoku held off the entire Blackbeard Pirate crew.  Marco doesn't have anything close to those feats.  Literally the best offensive showing he has is kicking Kizaru.



Shanks hasn't shown anything that can damage Akainu. I guess that means he can't. Garp hasn't shown any hardening haki at MF, I guess that means he can't. You can't place limits on characters saying that's the *most* they can do when they haven't even gone all out.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, feats literally don't mean anything when speculating strengths of characters. The only place feats hold weight is in the OBD. Author portrayal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feats. 

If the author believes a character is at a certain level then that character is at that level whether they have the feats to prove it or not. Kaido has literally no feats, but we know he's top tier and one of the strongest characters in the series. Why? Because of how Oda's portrayed his strength with his Yonko title and how other characters interacted with him.

Oda purposefully drew scenes with Marco clashing with each and every one of the Admirals. Marco and Kizaru both clashed in the air and Marco pushed him back. Luffy needed help from Aokiji, guess who Oda chose to help him, Marco. Marco's portrayal at Marineford says to me that Oda believes Marco can tangle with the Admirals. It's absolutely asinine to think he would get low diffed/baby shaked by one or he can't even hurt them at all just because he didn't with a few casual clashes.

Also non of the Admirals were able to damage Marco either without seastone, I guess that means their incapable of doing so. So with that logic that means Marco and the Admirals will stalemate cause neither one can damage the other.


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## Gervin (Jun 3, 2014)

♦Young Master♦ said:


> Gervin said:
> 
> 
> > You're implying that all theories have the same legitimate backing.  Luffy becoming PK is speculation, although it is pretty obvious.  And some may speculate that Usopp will become PK.  Some speculation has more concrete backing than others.  The three examples of speculation I brought up in my last post are far from obvious.
> ...


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## Magician (Jun 3, 2014)

Gervin said:


> Perceived author portrayal is subjective.  This is why characters like Doflamingo have been placed everywhere from M3 level to Admiral level at some points. That's why it's nice to be able to back it up with feats.  I agree that feats aren't everything, but they're pretty nice to be able to fall back on when all that's left is the subjectivity of author portrayal.



Yeah, author portrayal is subjective but what I'm saying is that what should be discussed is what you think the author is trying to portray here instead of what physical feats a person has. Especially when speculating about characters that have barely shown anything.



> You perceive Marco as Admiral level because he saved Luffy from Aokiji?  Jozu got Aokiji off of Whitebeard and he got turned into a popsicle.



There's a multitude of reasons, I just don't feel like typing a whole tl;dr on that topic. It's already been discussed a bagillion times, I don't want to get into to that too much.

There's already an entire debate thread on that topic. 



> But if you're still going to argue author portrayal, I'll just say that our perceptions of how Oda wants his characters to look are slightly different and there is no way to conclusively resolve it until later in the manga.



There's no fun in being a fence sitter though. Waiting for conclusive evidence is just being scared at the possibility of being wrong. Sometimes you just gotta take a stance and go for it. Makes forums way more entertaining that way.


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## Gervin (Jun 3, 2014)

♦Young Master♦ said:


> Yeah, author portrayal is subjective but what I'm saying is that what should be discussed is what you think the author is trying to portray here instead of what physical feats a person has. Especially when speculating about characters that have barely shown anything.



Ok, I see where you're coming from.  I'm just not comfortable spittballing about character strengths with nothing to base it on.  In fact, many of the threads in the battledome are restricted due to lack of character feats (not that a whole lot of people pay attention to that though ).  I do see where you're coming from now though, and I can respect it.




♦Young Master♦ said:


> There's no fun in being a fence sitter though. Waiting for conclusive evidence is just being scared at the possibility of being wrong. Sometimes you just gotta take a stance and go for it. Makes forums way more entertaining that way.



I do take a side, and my side is Admirals > Marco, just not by some huge margin.  I'm not scared about my opinion being wrong; if Marco comes in in chapter 1000 and whoops Kizaru's ass, then my opinion will just change.  I probably rely on feats more heavily than some, but I guess that's my own way of discussing these kind of things.


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## Venom (Jun 3, 2014)

♦Young Master♦ said:


> Cause this is shonen. Named attacks >>> unnamed, 99% of the time.
> 
> 
> 
> Quite obvious Luffy wanted to save Viola and Toy Soldier from Gladius. Why wouldn't Luffy use his strongest attack on him to take him out? That means jet stamp is obvs Luffy's strongest attack and the most he can do.



Two different instances.
Gladius is horribly weaker than Luffy so it is irrelevant whether he uses one of his strong or one of his weak attacks cause he is still >Gladius.
This is not the case with Marco/Vista and Akainu.
Marco and Vista can't say about themselves that they are overwhelmingly stronger than Akainu.


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## Magician (Jun 3, 2014)

Venom said:


> Two different instances.
> Gladius is horribly weaker than Luffy so it is irrelevant whether he uses one of his strong or one of his weak attacks cause he is still >Gladius.
> This is not the case with Marco/Vista and Akainu.
> Marco and Vista can't say about themselves that they are overwhelmingly stronger than Akainu.



You missed the point entirely.


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## Shanks (Jun 3, 2014)




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## Magician (Jun 3, 2014)




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## trance (Jun 3, 2014)

Terrible fanfiction is terrible


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## Magician (Jun 3, 2014)




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## trance (Jun 3, 2014)

And that's why manga > anime. 

Otherwise, we have shit like Yamcha > Cell.


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## Magician (Jun 3, 2014)

Nah, anime did it right this time.


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## Venom (Jun 4, 2014)

♦Young Master♦ said:


> You missed the point entirely.



No I didn't.
Those are still different instances which are not comparable.


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## Extravlad (Jun 4, 2014)

Akainu would solos Sabo + Ace + Luffy without much trouble


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## Dellinger (Jun 4, 2014)

This thread is laughable at best.It's like people refuse what has been shown about Akainu just to wank Sabo.

Again this is laughable.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Jun 4, 2014)

♦Young Master♦ said:


> @Marco/Vista situation
> 
> Saying Marco and Vista are incapable of damaging Akainu with their level of haki with a generic no named attack is like saying Fujitora is incapable of causing lasting injuries to Zoro after Zoro tanked his generic no named gravity attack. It's dumb.


Yes, I'm sure Marco and Vista were holding back against Akainu after the hellhound just put a hole in their comrade. Doesn't make any sense, especially since Marco used his talons for the first time (unless I'm mistaken and he used them before), but whatever.
Btw, Issho was holding back on Zoro, and he still made him bleed.


Extravlad said:


> Akainu would solos Sabo + Ace + Luffy without much trouble





White Hawk said:


> This thread is laughable at best.It's like people refuse what has been shown about Akainu just to wank Sabo.
> 
> Again this is laughable.


Quoted for the truth.


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## Luke (Jun 8, 2014)

Magma Fist's Sabo's anus to death.

Luffy =


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## Slenderman (Jun 8, 2014)

Akainu low end of high diff.


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 9, 2014)

Just to get back at this thread, no way is sabo winning this. I don't normally associate the term "wankers" with people because I can respect their view, of course it depends on what they say that would make me give a logical assessment on their view of certain things, but in this case, people vouching for sabo are wanker indeed.


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## Shanks (Jun 9, 2014)

Sabo lose high difficulties if the 2 goes all out and fight to the dead right now.

By the end of Dressrosa, he should be able to push it to very high difficulties.

By EoS, Sabo's fire will be hotter than Akainu's magma, and will burn a hole in Akainu's body.


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## Nox (Jun 13, 2014)

Akainu > Marco >= MMnM Sabo > Sabo


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## Daisuke Jigen (Jun 14, 2014)

How has this thread gone on for 7 pages?


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## GIORNO (Jun 14, 2014)

Why was this thread even made?

Sabo is not Admiral-level, fuck off.

Akainu mid diffs.


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## Ruse (Jun 14, 2014)

Akainu mid low diff, the Sabo wank is real.


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## GIORNO (Jun 14, 2014)

ThatBlackGuy said:


> Akainu mid low diff, the Sabo wank is real.



It's 'cause he's 2nd-In-Command. 

That does have some merit, but for now, it's way too vague.


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