# Adult Naruto & Adult Sasuke vs Bleach Verse



## JuicyG (Mar 31, 2018)

As a team, how far do they go?


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## shade0180 (Mar 31, 2018)

Nothing change they still clear...


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## Daio (Mar 31, 2018)

Lol. Barragan ages. Lille snipes. Gerard stomps. Ichigo overpowers. Sōsuke trolls. Yhwach decimates.

Reactions: Like 2 | Optimistic 1 | Old 1


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## Affectugender (Mar 31, 2018)

Daio said:


> shit


You wish
They all get blitz and one shot.


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## Daio (Mar 31, 2018)

Affectugender said:


> You wish
> They all get blitz and one shot.


You're not funny and you're wrong af.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Source of Hate (Apr 1, 2018)

They're, what, moon level in offensive power? They tie with all-out Shikai Kenpachi. The Truth Seeking Balls are the only real factor against anyone stronger

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Ningen 1


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## Daio (Apr 1, 2018)

Affectugender said:


> Seems about right for a Bleach wanker.


The "wanker" card? Absolutely pathetic.


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## shade0180 (Apr 1, 2018)

Source of Hate said:


> They tie with all-out Shikai Kenpachi



 No one in bleach is moon level...


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## egressmadara (Apr 1, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> No one in bleach is moon level...


With enough mental gymnastics you can bump Zaraki to galaxy level and Aizen, Ichigo, yhwach to univer.... sorry, multi-universal level.


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## Source of Hate (Apr 1, 2018)

egressmadara said:


> With enough mental gymnastics you can bump Zaraki to galaxy level and Aizen, Ichigo, yhwach to univer.... sorry, multi-universal level.


Right because "10-day walk" takes such extreme levels of analysis to fathom. 2 + 2 = 4, mate.


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 1, 2018)

What the fuck is this shit 

Moon level Kenpachi?

Gtfo 

They solo btw

According to the wiki Juha is Country+ at his peak...He is nothing to Naruto or Sasuke, and if he isnt, then the rest of the verse isnt


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## Vicotex (Apr 1, 2018)

Cloroxverse get butt fucked

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Affectugender (Apr 1, 2018)

Daio said:


> The "wanker" card? Absolutely pathetic.


But thats what you are doing tho....can you provide any logical explanation why anyone from Bleach isn't getting one shot and blitz? No wonder no one replies to you and general cencus seems to be Naruto or Sasuke solos. Keep the want going


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## Source of Hate (Apr 1, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> What the fuck is this shit
> 
> Moon level Kenpachi?
> 
> ...


Gee, then I guess the wiki must be wrong. Huh, but that's impossible, the wiki is not fanmade. Right? Lmao


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## Source of Hate (Apr 1, 2018)

Affectugender said:


> can you provide any logical explanation why anyone from Bleach isn't getting one shot and blitz?


The OBD's version of Seireitei's size is asspulled and heavily conflicts with the stated canon information to the extent that even Studio Pierrot is like "these children and their fanfiction"


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## Alita (Apr 1, 2018)

Either one can solo. Any god tier in Naruto can solo.


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## Djomla (Apr 1, 2018)

What are stats for Bleach God tiers anyway?


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## Daio (Apr 1, 2018)

@Alita54 Come here and address my reasoning or is lowering my rep the only thing you can do?


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## Daio (Apr 1, 2018)

Djomla said:


> What are stats for Bleach God tiers anyway?


Profile says some bs like Country level+ and MHS+, when they're actually far higher than that.


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## Source of Hate (Apr 1, 2018)

Djomla said:


> What are stats for Bleach God tiers anyway?


You're asking for OBD's erroneous stats or real stats? Because Yamamoto can and was going to destroy Soul Society with his Reiatsu.


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## Djomla (Apr 1, 2018)

Source of Hate said:


> You're asking for OBD's erroneous stats or real stats? Because Yamamoto can and was going to destroy Soul Society with his Reiatsu.



Real calculated stats.


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## Source of Hate (Apr 1, 2018)

Djomla said:


> Real calculated stats.


They're not even real lol. Dangai Ichigo's "hill busting" is regarded "hill busting" despite the amazing double standards done for Sensui's shockwave. Clearly the forum is biased lol


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## Alita (Apr 1, 2018)

Daio said:


> @Alita54 Come here and address my reasoning or is lowering my rep the only thing you can do?



Your wanking bleach dude. You've been here long enough to know the strongest in it are like 115 teratons and mach 3000(And that only applies to like 3 characters at most.). While Naruto and sauce are at 2 zettatons and mach 8000. They can also harm intangibles with their attacks and stop regen with TSB. There's no reason they can't solo here.


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## Alita (Apr 1, 2018)

Source of Hate said:


> They're not even real lol. Dangai Ichigo's "hill busting" is regarded "hill busting" despite the amazing double standards done for Sensui's shockwave. Clearly the forum is biased lol



You the last one to call anyone biased since you argued even universe busters coulden't kill yhwach in the past.


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## Source of Hate (Apr 1, 2018)

Alita54 said:


> Your wanking bleach dude. You've been here long enough to know the strongest in it are like 115 teratons and mach 3000(And that only applies to like 3 characters at most.).


It's wrong. That's what we're arguing. It's blantantly wrong to the max



> While Naruto and sauce are at 2 zettatons and mach 8000.


Can you even argue this yourself without referring to some wiki made by someone else?



> They can also harm intangibles with their attacks


No. They harm Limbo clones through a specific circumstancial in-verse mechanic. Just like how Bleach souls can damage other souls.



> and stop regen with TSB. There's no reason they can't solo here.


TSB can only stop Edo regen because TSB negates Ninjutsu, which Edo is a part of.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Daio (Apr 1, 2018)

Alita54 said:


> Your wanking bleach dude. You've been here long enough to know the strongest in it are like 115 teratons and mach 3000(And that only applies to like 3 characters at most.). While Naruto and sauce are at 2 zettatons and mach 8000. They can also harm intangibles with their attacks and stop regen with TSB. There's no reason they can't solo here.


400 teratons and Mach 5000* if we're going by that calc but no. God Tiers are realistically At least Planet level and much faster, though, harder to quantify the speed. Remind me why Yhwach's shit isn't accepted again so I can debunk that shit rn.

Also, when did Naruto or Sasuke ever harm someone intangible and TSB negates ET because it negates all ninjutus, which ET is.


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## Source of Hate (Apr 1, 2018)

Alita54 said:


> You the last one to call anyone biased since you argued even universe busters coulden't kill yhwach in the past.


You're speaking out of context. I said "DC with enough power to destroy all the matter in the universe." Not  a "universe buster."


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## Alita (Apr 1, 2018)

Daio said:


> 400 teratons and Mach 5000* if we're going by that calc but no. God Tiers are realistically At least Planet level and much faster, though, harder to quantify the speed. Remind me why Yhwach's shit isn't accepted again so I can debunk that shit rn.
> 
> Also, when did Naruto or Sasuke ever harm someone intangible and TSB negate ET because it negates all ninjutsu.



I thought we went with low ends for feats?

Yhwach being planet level isn't accepted here cause we never saw him bust a planet and we don't know how long it would have taken for him to do it or how he would have done it. 

They damaged madara's limbo clone which is intangible and KCM Naruto could physically grab his own soul to stop nagato from removing it. 

TSB stop regeneration. It's why edos could not regen after getting hit with it.


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## Alita (Apr 1, 2018)

Source of Hate said:


> It's wrong. That's what we're arguing. It's blantantly wrong to the max.



It's what we roll with here. Don't like it go somewhere else. 



Source of Hate said:


> You're speaking out of context. I said "DC with enough power to destroy all the matter in the universe." Not  a "universe buster."



It's still wank on your part dude. Almighty is a NLF you can assume he can come back from stuff way above what he has shown. You don't have to destroy all matter in the universe to kill him.




> Can you even argue this yourself without referring to some wiki made by someone else?



Toneri moved a mass as big as the moon at hypersonic+ speeds. Small planet level makes sense for him.


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## Daio (Apr 1, 2018)

Alita54 said:


> I thought we went with low ends for feats?
> 
> Yhwach being planet level isn't accepted here cause we never saw him bust a planet and we don't know how long it would have taken for him to do it or how he would have done it.
> 
> ...


Idk. I always thought you go with whichever end is the most logical.

Well, we do know how. He would have done so through his reiatsu, shown and stated. As for the other factors, never seeing it isn't really a good arguement and this shit honestly seems like a double standard. 

We've never seen Yusuke destroy a country, let alone the amount of time it would take him to do so. 

Same with Kaguya in regards to her ETSB wiping out her planet/dimension. 

Yet, you got calcs based on that shit which are accepted by everyone.

Why is Yhwach's case any different?

Association fallacy. Lille's intangibility doesn't work in the same way as Limbo clones or souls.

TSB negate all ninjutsu. EDO Tensei is a ninjutsu, which is why the regeneration that comes with it was negated.


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## Daio (Apr 1, 2018)

@Amol You can come get some too.


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## Source of Hate (Apr 1, 2018)

Alita54 said:


> It's what we roll with here. Don't like it go somewhere else.


In other words, you don't like me to tell you that you're wrong, so I should go, then you can keep being wrong happily. 



> It's still wank on your part dude. Almighty is a NLF you can assume he can come back from stuff way above what he has shown. You don't have to destroy all matter in the universe to kill him.


He comes back by rewriting all of fate. DC is simply irrelevant as long as a timeline remains for him to rewrite. It doesn't matter if Bills punches Cell's head off, the head will still regenerate.



> Toneri moved a mass as big as the moon at hypersonic+ speeds. Small planet level makes sense for him.


One ability has nothing to do with the other. Just because Nagato can cause a certain amount of destruction with Chibaku Tensei doesn't mean he can replicate it with Shinra Tensei, even if he exhausted all his energy doing so.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 1, 2018)

Source of Hate said:


> Gee, then I guess the wiki must be wrong. Huh, but that's impossible


It doesnt matter even if the wiki is wrong

Narutos god tiers have blatantly better feats and stats

And naruto and sauce arent exactly weak by God tier standards 

Moon level is absurdly above anything that anyone in bleach short of Lolmighty can be entertained with doing

I lost all respect for the people arguing that bleach has a chance here when one of you poor misinformed souls said "Moon level Kenpachi"


Source of Hate said:


> the wiki is not fanmade. Right?


The entire concept of crossover debating is fanmade, fanowned, and fan run...

The only difference is, a database requires a general consensus at least...

Why does your interpretation hold more weight than an entire forum pray tell 


Source of Hate said:


> They're not even real lol. Dangai Ichigo's "hill busting" is regarded "hill busting"


Because thats exactly what he fucking did

Bust a hill...

Look at the damn thing, its nowhere near mountain sized

Reactions: Like 4


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## Source of Hate (Apr 1, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> It doesnt matter even if the wiki is wrong


It does when the wiki is the sole basis for someone's argument. EVERYONE refers to the wiki. And if you disagree with it, you're INSTANTLY a wanker.



> Narutos god tiers have blatantly better feats and stats


I disagree, and that makes me a wanker




> And naruto and sauce arent exactly weak by God tier standards
> 
> 
> Moon level is absurdly above anything that anyone in bleach short of Lolmighty can be entertained with doing
> ...


I did. Your island level Kenpachi comes with the falsely city-sized Seireitei. Seireitei is not city sized. Hell, The entire Royal Palace fits inside the Seireitei and Nimaiya's has a goddamn sea.



> The entire concept of crossover debating is fanmade, fanowned, and fan run...
> 
> 
> The only difference is, a database requires a general consensus at least...
> ...


It doesn't. Neither does theirs. That's why debate is valid. But this place likes to act like it isn't. It likes to act like the consensus is a fact.




> Because thats exactly what he fucking did
> 
> 
> Bust a hill...
> ...


And, like Sensui, he did it with air. Also you can't tell it's real size. It's always shown in the distance and Kubo clearly doesn't portray depth very well. The size is irrelevant though

Reactions: Like 1


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## Volt manta (Apr 1, 2018)

I'm seeing a lot of statements and postulating but nothing concrete to back it up. It's fine if you want to prove you're right, but that takes scans, calcs... A bit more than claiming you're right preemptively and being condescending to people who have genuine right to be skeptical. Get this conversation off the ground, in other words.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Source of Hate (Apr 1, 2018)

Volt manta said:


> I'm seeing a lot of statements and postulating but nothing concrete to back it up. It's fine if you want to prove you're right, but that takes scans, calcs... A bit more than claiming you're right preemptively and being condescending to people who have genuine right to be skeptical. Get this conversation off the ground, in other words.


I would post reasons or proof if people want it. But I don't get the chance to make a case to begin with. Not usually. They're not skeptical. They're outright dismissive from the start. They don't _want_ the argument

Reactions: Agree 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 1, 2018)

Source of Hate said:


> It does when the wiki is the sole basis for someone's argument. EVERYONE refers to the wiki. And if you disagree with it, you're INSTANTLY a wanker


Except it doesnt need to be...You can see for yourself that Narutos feats are better...Because Bleach hasnt done anything remotely close to cutting the goddamn moon in half...

Which naruto countered at way less than his total output...The kid was in goddamn base with a Kyuubi glove on...

And drained, and powering a Kurama avatar independent of his body fighting elsewhere, and injured iirc...

And he still did it


Source of Hate said:


> I disagree, and that makes me a wanker


No

What makes people a wanker is when they say shit like "moon level kenpachi" with no substance


Source of Hate said:


> I did. Your island level Kenpachi comes with the falsely city-sized Seireitei


I dont care what hes calced at

I never once cited Island level, but what i DID say was...

You gotta be smoking that good shit laced with the BEST shit if you think hes fucking moon level


Source of Hate said:


> Seireitei is not city sized. Hell, The entire Royal Palace fits inside the Seireitei and Nimaiya's has a goddamn sea


The royal palace was above the seireitei iirc

Not within it

Havent read bleach since it ended tho so i could be wrong 

Regardless, you can get that changed if you were to bring forth actual evidence and debunk the calc afaik

Never tried to depose a calc before but it stands to reason youd need proof and not baseless claims and opinions 

Otherwise youre just whining


Source of Hate said:


> It doesn't. Neither does theirs. That's why debate is valid. But this place likes to act like it isn't. It likes to act like the consensus is a fact.


People treat consensus as fact because this hobby of ours is ridiculously vague

And if every kid with an opinion had their way, nothing would make sense

So, democracy in action

Consensus and Majority rule are law 

Thats the issue with this hobby

And we do the best we can with it

You dont like the way its done here?

Either get the calc revoked with your own proven calc, or stop getting bent out of shape over it and just accept the calc the consensus uses


Source of Hate said:


> And, like Sensui, he did it with air. Also you can't tell it's real size. It's always shown in the distance and Kubo clearly doesn't portray depth very well. The size is irrelevant though


You can easily tell its real size...Its not far away whatsoever

Theres such a thing as a perspective argument...But not in that case

Not when the perspective is "50 feet away at best"

And the size is completely relevant...Thats what makes a mountain an goddamn mountain and not a hill...


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## SwordSlayer99 (Apr 1, 2018)

Source of Hate said:


> One ability has nothing to do with the other. Just because Nagato can cause a certain amount of destruction with Chibaku Tensei doesn't mean he can replicate it with Shinra Tensei, even if he exhausted all his energy doing so.


This isn't what anybody is saying or arguing.

Toneri moved the moon using telekinesis and it got calced at Small Planet level(2 zetatons), which is enough energy to bust the moon *50* times over. Toneri's GWRE that sliced the moon in half is composed of the same energy that moved the moon, and it hit 100% BSM Naruto in the face and didn't scratch him, and he overpowered it with a fucking chakra punch. Toneri is literal fodder to 100% BSM Naruto, let alone SPSM Naruto or Adult SPSM Naruto.

If you want to argue Bleach > Naruto then your going to have to find feats that beat this power scale : Planet amount of nature energy BDRS + CO : FRS = Indra's Arrow > 9 Biju Rasenshuriken > 6 Bijudama Rasenshuriken > 27 CT meteors > Yoton Rasenshuriken >> 100% BSM Naruto Bijudama > 100% BSM Naruto's chakra punch > Toneri's GWRE = 2 zetatons or enough energy blow up 50 moons in a row.

As far as it stands, 100% BSM Naruto would solo the bleach verse, and 4th War SPSM would fodderize 100% BSM, and Hokage Naruto is even stronger than that. Small Planet level+ Bleach Calcs or gtfo.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Source of Hate (Apr 1, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Except it doesnt need to be...You can see for yourself that Narutos feats are better...Because Bleach hasnt done anything remotely close to cutting the goddamn moon in half...


Do you disregard statements? There is this literary device called indirect exposition. Do you wave it aside if it's not shown on-screen? Because if they in the manga say that Yamamoto's Bankai would destroy Soul Society, I believe it. Do you?




> Which naruto countered at way less than his total output...The kid was in goddamn base with a Kyuubi glove on...


Technically he focused his entire transformation on his fist but yeah




> And drained, and powering a Kurama avatar independent of his body fighting elsewhere, and injured iirc...
> 
> 
> And he still did it


Yes




> No
> 
> 
> What makes people a wanker is when they say shit like "moon level kenpachi" with no substance


I once said that the imbalance of souls causes the collapse of the universe in Bleach. And when I posted the scan of Rukia saying the exact same thing, I was "wanking." Why?




> I dont care what hes calced at
> 
> 
> I never once cited Island level, but what i DID say was...
> ...


Well one has to do with the other. If Seireitei is 1000 km diameter, Shikai Kenpachi is moon level.




> The royal palace was above the seireitei iirc
> 
> 
> Not within it
> ...


They share the same wall barrier




> Regardless, you can get that changed if you were to bring forth actual evidence and debunk the calc afaik
> 
> 
> Never tried to depose a calc before but it stands to reason youd need proof and not baseless claims and opinions ￼


Where?




> Otherwise youre just whining
> 
> 
> People treat consensus as fact because this hobby of ours is ridiculously vague
> ...


Well I _am_ arguing




> You can easily tell its real size...Its not far away whatsoever
> 
> 
> Theres such a thing as a perspective argument...But not in that case
> ...


Guess the size of that hole in the ground




> And the size is completely relevant...Thats what makes a mountain an goddamn mountain and not a hill...


It was still done with a mere shockwave


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## Source of Hate (Apr 1, 2018)

SwordSlayer99 said:


> This isn't what anybody is saying or arguing.


It is, but you don't realize it




> Toneri moved the moon using telekinesis and it got calced at Small Planet level(2 zetatons), which is enough energy to bust the moon 50 times over.


You have to prove that Toneri can enforce said amount of energy on any other one of his other abilities.




> Toneri's GWRE that sliced the moon in half is composed of the same energy that moved the moon,


With the same _type_ of energy




> and it hit 100% BSM Naruto in the face and didn't scratch him, and he overpowered it with a fucking chakra punch.


With his entire transformation focused on his hand.



> Toneri is literal fodder to 100% BSM Naruto, let alone SPSM Naruto or Adult SPSM Naruto.


I agree




> If you want to argue Bleach > Naruto then your going to have to find feats that beat this power scale : Planet amount of nature energy BDRS + CO : FRS = Indra's Arrow > 9 Biju Rasenshuriken > 6 Bijudama Rasenshuriken > 27 CT meteors > Yoton Rasenshuriken >> 100% BSM Naruto Bijudama > 100% BSM Naruto's chakra punch > Toneri's GWRE = 2 zetatons or enough energy blow up 50 moons in a row.


Naruto stopped a moon splitter, not the movement of the moon. You are scaling Shinra Tensei from Chibaku Tensei.



> As far as it stands, 100% BSM Naruto would solo the bleach verse, and 4th War SPSM would fodderize 100% BSM, and Hokage Naruto is even stronger than that. Small Planet level+ Bleach Calcs or gtfo.


Okay


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## SwordSlayer99 (Apr 1, 2018)

Source of Hate said:


> You have to prove that Toneri can enforce said amount of energy on any other one of his other abilities.
> 
> Naruto stopped a moon splitter, not the movement of the moon. You are scaling Shinra Tensei from Chibaku Tensei.


I'm not scaling wrong. Toneri's GWRE is his strongest jutsu used meaning that it by default scales to the moon moving. Even if it wasn't his strongest jutsu, Toneri was not even shown using a jutsu or any effort at all to move the moon, it happened after he awakened the Tenseigan. The GWRE is basically the same energy compressed into a sword so it scales. 

It if wasn't a powerup you might have a point, but it is. Tenseigan chakra can casually move the moon, and the Golden Wheel Reincarnation Explosion is literally a compressed energy sword, it scales because it's made of Tenseigan chakra.


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## Steven (Apr 1, 2018)

Moonlevel Kenny...

Naruto nukes them,except Gerard and Yhwach,because yhwach/gerard can not be killed by conventional attacks.A magnet rasengan just seals them


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## ATastyMuffin (Apr 1, 2018)

SwordSlayer99 said:


> 4th War SPSM would fodderize 100% BSM,



I agree with the rest of your post but this right here isn't necessarily true.


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## Daio (Apr 1, 2018)

Affectugender said:


> OP didn't even say its a gauntlet or entire verse at once. Yes they can blitz everyone here especially when Naruto has some huge aoe attacks.
> 
> 
> Yea like Naruto or Sasuke aren't 10x faster than him so they will slowly get touched by his Respira. Naruto throws a rasenshuriken. GL aging that.
> ...


"vs Bleach Verse" It's not a gauntlet. 

You're better off arguing for AOE because they're not blitzing everyone in the entire verse before they get cucked by the onslaught of hax. AOE doesn't even mean shit considering everyone releases can escape it. 

They aren't. One of the accepted Bleach calcs here yields Mach 200, which even the calcer agrees is arguably 5 times higher and that scales to fodder Lieutenants like Omaeda, who was effortlessly blitzed by SS Arc Shikai Ichigo. Yeah, the Rasenshuriken is getting aged.

To be blunt, your opinion on his X-Axis is irrelevant. It's instantaneous spacial piercing and the speed gap is definitely not high at all. Even then, the difference in distance Naruto and Sasuke would have to move compared to Lille, is much greater than any "speed gap" you're thinking about.

NLF*. Yeah, no. Stop incorrectly using "NLF" as an excuse. I see this too often. 

Refute me instead of literally denying what has been laid down. I can get the text from the Light Novel if that's what you're looking for but I'd like you to tell me how and why stopping the destruction of several worlds as a corpse, with passive reiatsu, isn't At least Planet level.


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## uchihakil (Apr 1, 2018)

The duo solo because numbers don't mean jack when naruto is around;

> Naruto can just nuke the whole battlefield with his TBBRS

> Sasuke can make any 10 bleach characters into a CT and drop them on the rest

> Indra's arrow + TBBRS and CORS will likely destroy all of them

> gerrard gets sealed

> Energy based attacks get absorbed (Getsuga tenshou/cero/lanza/fragor/quincy arrows) 

> Naruto uses tajuu kage bunshin and wreck with RS or COR that shot momoshiki to space and disintegrated him

> Sasuke spams amaterasu.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## uchihakil (Apr 1, 2018)

Daio said:


> Lol. Barragan ages. Lille snipes. Gerard stomps. Ichigo overpowers. Sōsuke trolls. Yhwach decimates.



Pretty sure the duo are not gonna waste time fighting EVERY SINGLE bleach character, they wipe them out with TBBRS  and call it a day. Or naruto sends out clones to do his bidding (which could be used to gather info on any hax bleach characters have).

Reactions: Agree 1


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## uchihakil (Apr 1, 2018)

Daio said:


> "vs Bleach Verse" It's not a gauntlet.
> 
> You're better off arguing for AOE because they're not blitzing everyone in the entire verse before they get cucked by the onslaught of hax. AOE doesn't even mean shit considering everyone releases can escape it.
> 
> ...




No they can't escape the AOE, and i dont see why naruto can't use his massive clones to do the bidding for him, he doesn't have to be the one to do all the blitzing, and blitzing is hard work considering he can just nuke all of them to oblivion. Sasuke can just turn anyone into a satellite and drop his/her ass on the enemy.


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## uchihakil (Apr 1, 2018)

Daio said:


> "vs Bleach Verse" It's not a gauntlet.
> 
> You're better off arguing for AOE because they're not blitzing everyone in the entire verse before they get cucked by the onslaught of hax. AOE doesn't even mean shit considering everyone releases can escape it.
> 
> ...




No they can't escape the AOE, and i dont see why naruto can't use his massive clones to do the bidding for him, he doesn't have to be the one to do all the blitzing, and blitzing is hard work considering he can just nuke all of them to oblivion. Sasuke can just turn anyone into a satellite and drop his/her ass on the enemy.


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## Daio (Apr 1, 2018)

uchihakil said:


> Pretty sure the duo are not gonna waste time fighting EVERY SINGLE bleach character, they wipe them out with TBBRS  and call it a day. Or naruto sends out clones to do his bidding (which could be used to gather info on any hax bleach characters have).


Great. They can spam nukes but Yhwach, Aizen, Ichigo, Lille and Gerard aren't going to be killed by them. Others could evade too. Clones are pretty useful, except, all except Gerard have the range and power/hax to wipe them all out.



uchihakil said:


> No they can't escape the AOE, and i dont see why naruto can't use his massive clones to do the bidding for him, he doesn't have to be the one to do all the blitzing, and blitzing is hard work considering he can just nuke all of them to oblivion. Sasuke can just turn anyone into a satellite and drop his/her ass on the enemy.


Yes, they definetly can. Naruto's AOE is hundreds of km at best. Casual MHS+ characters can cross those distances in seconds and less. In fact, Yhwach with his planetary+ range and AP is going to be the one doing the nuking here. Sasuke's CTs would get countered by too many things in Bleachverse.


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## Blade (Apr 1, 2018)

a distortion in time and space happens

accidentally

Sol Badguy appears and lands on the stage where this AMAZING battle takes place

he flexes his Volcanic Sword

they turn to ashes


Sol: _''fodders, fodders everywhere, YARE YARE''

_
and goes to nearest bar, after that

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Vicotex (Apr 1, 2018)

Daio said:


> Great. They can spam nukes but Yhwach, Aizen, Ichigo, Lille and Gerard aren't going to be killed by them. Others could evade too. Clones are pretty useful, except, all except Gerard have the range and power/hax to wipe them all out.
> 
> 
> Yes, they definetly can. Naruto's AOE is hundreds of km at best. Casual MHS+ characters can cross those distances in seconds and less. In fact, Yhwach with his planetary+ range and AP is going to be the one doing the nuking here. Sasuke's CTs would get countered by too many things in Bleachverse.


Who the fuck are you?
Is you ignorant or something?
Do you think yawch is the only one with planetary range or you think the Naruto team and do things way above that

Reactions: Funny 1


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## uchihakil (Apr 1, 2018)

Daio said:


> Great. They can spam nukes but Yhwach, Aizen, Ichigo, Lille and Gerard aren't going to be killed by them. Others could evade too. Clones are pretty useful, except, all except Gerard have the range and power/hax to wipe them all out.
> 
> 
> Yes, they definetly can. Naruto's AOE is hundreds of km at best. Casual MHS+ characters can cross those distances in seconds and less. In fact, Yhwach with his planetary+ range and AP is going to be the one doing the nuking here. Sasuke's CTs would get countered by too many things in Bleachverse.




What planetary dc feats does ywhach have again?? 

> Bleachverse were shitting their pants from gremmy's meteors, sasuke will not only use CT but hold other bleach characters captive in them, so assuming they make the effort of destroying them, they will still suffer casualties. 

> you mean the same characters that couldn't dodge cero's/fragors/getsuga's/quincy arrows and about any attack in bleach are somehow evading TBBRS??? Give me feats of them avoiding attacks then we talk.

> Aizen/Gerrard/lille/ywhach might survive said attacks,but doesn't mean they win, cuz the duo have other means of putting them down like genjutsu/sealing. 

> BTW naruto can clone kurama and what not, lemme see gerrard drop kurama. They rest of the clones shit blitz a large chunk of the bleachverse (kcm naruto clones were kage level and dropping kage level characters, RSM naruto clones >>>> kcm naruto clones).

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Daio (Apr 1, 2018)

Vicotex said:


> Who the fuck are you?
> Is you ignorant or something?
> Do you think yawch is the only one with planetary range or you think the Naruto team and do things way above that


Your dad.
Nah.
Neither Naruto nor Sasuke have Planetary range, let alone shit beyond that.



uchihakil said:


> What planetary dc feats does ywhach have again??
> 
> > Bleachverse were shitting their pants from gremmy's meteors, sasuke will not only use CT but hold other bleach characters captive in them, so assuming they make the effort of destroying them, they will still suffer casualties.
> 
> ...


Holding together at least three worlds as a corpse. I suppose that would account for AP though. 

Yeah, no. A few Sternritter and fodder were getting excited but that's irrelevant. Barragan ages, Bambietta explodes, Lille erases, etc.

What are you on about?

Sealing Gerard might work. Sealing an intangible being like Lille seems legit. The other three obliterate with raw power.

Yeah, Gerard isn't going to drop Kurama but Kurama isn't dropping Gerard either. Like clones are relevant when Bleachverse has the AOE and hax to take care of them.


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## Source of Hate (Apr 1, 2018)

SwordSlayer99 said:


> I'm not scaling wrong. Toneri's GWRE is his strongest jutsu used meaning that it by default scales to the moon moving. Even if it wasn't his strongest jutsu, Toneri was not even shown using a jutsu or any effort at all to move the moon, it happened after he awakened the Tenseigan. The GWRE is basically the same energy compressed into a sword so it scales.


They are still two separate things. You can't make the case that Pain can cause an amount of destruction with his missiles equivalent to the energy required to make the Chibaku Tensei. Toneri's case is the same. It doesn't matter the effort, they are two abilities of different natures.



> It if wasn't a powerup you might have a point, but it is. Tenseigan chakra can casually move the moon,


That's another thing, it can _only_ move the moon becase of how it was made. He can't apply it on other objects, even less on attacks entirely different.



> and the Golden Wheel Reincarnation Explosion is literally a compressed energy sword, it scales because it's made of Tenseigan chakra.


If he could indeed replicate nearly the amount of energy required to move the moon in the form of pure explosions, he would not even need the moon to destroy the Earth


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## Source of Hate (Apr 1, 2018)

uchihakil said:


> What planetary dc feats does ywhach have again??


He has universal statements, because nobody has shown me where it says that the Material World is "Earth". Yhwach was also going to combine the realms so that death doesn't exist, not even in outer space(lol?). Also Yhwach reigns over the flow of all souls, and all matter has souls in Bleach. There is matter in our entire universe. I don't know why it's necessary for me to have to support this with other canon info when Rukia already gave the statement and the "planetary" assumption is baseless to this day, but I still do it.

Yama has planetary statements. Ichibei even more than Yama. Aizen's Reiatsu has above planetary range as well.



> > Bleachverse were shitting their pants from gremmy's meteors,


So was Narutoverse from Madara's. Literally wtf



> sasuke will not only use CT but hold other bleach characters captive in them, so assuming they make the effort of destroying them, they will still suffer casualties.


Sasuke can't do that because they're not Bijuus. He has not displayed the ability to do so on a random target unrelated to the Sage or his chakra variants to which the Rinnegan has a direct connection.



> > you mean the same characters that couldn't dodge cero's/fragors/getsuga's/quincy arrows and about any attack in bleach are somehow evading TBBRS??? Give me feats of them avoiding attacks then we talk.


Like Naruto wasn't stabbed by Sasuke's unmanned sword



> > Aizen/Gerrard/lille/ywhach might survive said attacks,but doesn't mean they win, cuz the duo have other means of putting them down like genjutsu/sealing.


This has to be addressed case by case



> > BTW naruto can clone kurama and what not, lemme see gerrard drop kurama. They rest of the clones shit blitz a large chunk of the bleachverse (kcm naruto clones were kage level and dropping kage level characters, RSM naruto clones >>>> kcm naruto clones).


Gerard would drop Naruto and Sasuke himself but you still regard Seireitei city-sized


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## uchihakil (Apr 1, 2018)

Source of Hate said:


> He has universal statements, because nobody has shown me where it says that the Material World is "Earth". Yhwach was also going to combine the realms so that death doesn't exist, not even in outer space(lol?). Also Yhwach reigns over the flow of all souls, and all matter has souls in Bleach. There is matter in our entire universe. I don't know why it's necessary for me to have to support this with other canon info when Rukia already gave the statement and the "planetary" assumption is baseless to this day, but I still do it.
> 
> Yama has planetary statements. Ichibei even more than Yama. Aizen's Reiatsu has above planetary range as well.
> 
> ...




Gerrard could drop naruto and sasuke himself??? lmao no one in bleach is soloing naruto or sasuke individually thus why they are matched against the whole goddamn verse. If you think Gerrard can beat them individually then bro you need help. Now moving on to your more sensible quotes


> You need to prove sasuke can't use CT on bleach characters, never heard of such fallacy, sasuke only being able to use CT on beings connected to rinnegan?!? dafuck?? It was never stated or implied. He just makes his target the centre of gravity, it has aboslutely nothing to do with having connection with rinnegan. 


> Planetary range is not DC, madara has planetary ranged techniques but doesn't have planet level dc attack, so you'll have to give me feats and not just random statements and feats that have nothing to do with dc. If you're talking bout range sasuke has inter dimensional range for traveling across dimensions. So stop with the range argument when its not going to help your characters win.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## uchihakil (Apr 1, 2018)

Daio said:


> Your dad.
> Nah.
> Neither Naruto nor Sasuke have Planetary range, let alone shit beyond that.
> 
> ...




Most of the bleach cast are gonna get wrecked by RSM clones, naruto and sasuke can overcome most of bleach's hax with their own hax or power. 

> Bambieta is gonna get blitzed by an rsm clone, and i dont think barragan can age kurama cloak because kurama doesn't age so i dont think it'll work on kyuubi cloak, lille has too snipe through thousands of RSM clones, naruto gains intel from any clone he destroys, and he'll deem lille dangerous, and will have sasuke handle lille with a quick genjutsu. What other hax is there??

Reactions: Agree 1


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## LazyWaka (Apr 1, 2018)

The speed difference isn't particularly massive (unless we want to take another look at Naruto dodging Madara's light attack, but that's a discussion for another thread.) So Lillie could possibly take them out, or at least Sasuke assuming they are fighting the verse all at once. Naruto's clones seem like a good counter to avoid Lillie's shots since he wont be able to tell them apart + Naruto's sensing reached a level where he can get an idea of what the opponent is doing so he can likely avoid most of the more dangerous hax.

As always debating about Ywatch is going to go no where fast.


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## Steven (Apr 1, 2018)

Source of Hate said:


> Shikai


And what changes with shikai?Kenpachi is Island+.With or without Shikai


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## Source of Hate (Apr 1, 2018)

> Gerrard could drop naruto and sasuke himself??? lmao no one in bleach is soloing naruto or sasuke individually thus why they are matched against the whole goddamn verse. If you think Gerrard can beat them individually then bro you need help.


Once again, if Seireitei is 1000+ km diameter, he does



> Now moving on to your more sensible quotes
> 
> 
> > You need to prove sasuke can't use CT on bleach characters, never heard of such fallacy, sasuke only being able to use CT on beings connected to rinnegan?!? dafuck?? It was never stated or implied. He just makes his target the centre of gravity, it has aboslutely nothing to do with having connection with rinnegan.


Yes actually because it was done with his Rinnegan that was projected on their eyes, them being derivations of the Juubi that was controlled with said Rinnegan.



> > Planetary range is not DC, madara has planetary ranged techniques but doesn't have planet level dc attack, so you'll have to give me feats and not just random statements and feats that have nothing to do with dc. If you're talking bout range sasuke has inter dimensional range for traveling across dimensions. So stop with the range argument when its not going to help your characters win.


Can or can't Yama's Bankai destroy Soul Society? It is stated, but do you deny said statement?


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## Volt manta (Apr 1, 2018)

Source of Hate said:


> Once again, if Seireitei is 1000+ km diameter, he does.


Proof of this?


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## Source of Hate (Apr 1, 2018)

Acnologia said:


> And what changes with shikai?Kenpachi is Island+.With or without Shikai


I'm pretty sure he is regarded in this forum as island level with Shikai but with eyepatch and using one hand, supposing Seireitei is city-sized.


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## Source of Hate (Apr 1, 2018)

Volt manta said:


> Proof of this?


Yoruichi's statement about each gate being a 10-day walk apart


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## Xhominid (Apr 1, 2018)

The only way Adult Naruto and Sasuke lose is by an extremely coordinated strike by some of the most hax of Bleach characters, including Ichibei with his broken as hell Shikai and Bankai.

Otherwise Adult Naruto and Sasuke babyshake.
But then a new challenge in whatever character whose superior to them appear and makes them cry like bitches.


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## Steven (Apr 1, 2018)

Give Yhwach X-Axis and he can beat at least one of the Ninja Duo


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 1, 2018)

Ywach was evenly matched with Kaguya in their versus, add all the other characters and Nardo and Sauce get killed.

Like, tell Lille to shoot at the place where they are going to appear, since Ywach sees the future, make Gremmy nerf them with reality warping to let Hanataro kill them, let them try and punch Barragan, trying to fight Aizen without seeing him, getting all damage rebound on them, being decapitated with reality warping, poisoned by their own chakra, different kinds of space manipulation,etc...

Nardo might outright lose to Ichigo.

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## ATastyMuffin (Apr 1, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Ywach was evenly matched with Kaguya in their versus, add all the other characters and Nardo and Sauce get killed.
> 
> Like, tell Lille to shoot at the place where they are going to appear, since Ywach sees the future, make Gremmy nerf them with reality warping to let Hanataro kill them, *let them try and punch Barragan*, trying to fight Aizen without seeing him, getting all damage rebound on them, being decapitated with reality warping, poisoned by their own chakra, different kinds of space manipulation,etc...
> 
> Nardo might outright lose to Ichigo.



Is this a post from 2009?


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## uchihakil (Apr 1, 2018)

Source of Hate said:


> Once again, if Seireitei is 1000+ km diameter, he does
> 
> Yes actually because it was done with his Rinnegan that was projected on their eyes, them being derivations of the Juubi that was controlled with said Rinnegan.
> 
> Can or can't Yama's Bankai destroy Soul Society? It is stated, but do you deny said statement?




> We can actually see how big buildings are when zoomed out outside of sereiti, sereitei is not that big, kubo has a problem of properly scaling his drawing in conjunction to his statements. Its like the hill ichigo destroyed that kubo called a mountain, that shit aint no mountain, sereitei was seen multiple times and it wasn't that big, the biggest building at the centre of sereitei could be seen from every angle of sereitei. 

> Your explanation as to why rinnegan only affects beings that are related to the rinnegan is fallacious AF. Firstly it was never stated in the manga or in the DB or any movie, and it was never hinted to be so. Sasuke genjutsu'ed the tailed beasts and made them the centre of gravity. It has nothing (ABSOLUTELY NOTHING) to do with the origin of the tailbeasts/rinnegan, if it was ever stated please link me to a scan where it was stated or at the very least implied.

> Yamamoto is gonna wreck the bleach team cast when he goes all out, he'll kill his team mates in the process, he's not beating naruto or sasuke or surviving a TBB (naruto especially has good heat resistance feats with kurama cloak).


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## Keishin (Apr 1, 2018)

Alita54 said:


> Your wanking bleach dude. You've been here long enough to know the strongest in it are like 115 teratons and mach 3000(And that only applies to like 3 characters at most.). While Naruto and sauce are at 2 zettatons and mach 8000. They can also harm intangibles with their attacks and stop regen with TSB. There's no reason they can't solo here.


The mach 8000 for Naruto needs to be debunked already. It's retarded, it's not even a speed feat it's just the camera angle moving as Toneri could not even keep up himself to get to balance from being thrown up by the Golem.
Along with the assumption that the moon isn't, like, atleast 95% hollow.

Anyway Inverted world+something else gives Bleach an easy win here. Uryu can slice some fodder in two and use antithesis, Askin can use gift ring on sasukes eyes.

The Almighty with the possibility of the other abilities being used through the future is obviously an instant win.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 1, 2018)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Is this a post from 2009?



Is how things are, you can go and search Ywach vs Kaguya yourself.


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## Xhominid (Apr 1, 2018)

uchihakil said:


> > We can actually see how big buildings are when zoomed out outside of sereiti, sereitei is not that big, kubo has a problem of properly scaling his drawing in conjunction to his statements. Its like the hill ichigo destroyed that kubo called a mountain, that shit aint no mountain, sereitei was seen multiple times and it wasn't that big, the biggest building at the centre of sereitei could be seen from every angle of sereitei.


 Dude, that can equally be applied to Naruto and the massive inconsistent state with Gamabunta's size and the size of the massive trees that make up the Village Hidden in the Leaf.


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## Sablés (Apr 1, 2018)

uchihakil said:


> We can actually see how big buildings are when zoomed out outside of sereiti, sereitei is not that big


Actually, the novels confirm any panel we have of Seireitei in its entirety is a condensed view. There are numerous hill areas that are never shown but are within the training grounds in each squad perimeter.


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## uchihakil (Apr 1, 2018)

Keishin said:


> The mach 8000 for Naruto needs to be debunked already. It's retarded, it's not even a speed feat it's just the camera angle moving as Toneri could not even keep up himself to get to balance from being thrown up by the Golem.
> Along with the assumption that the moon isn't, like, atleast 95% hollow.
> 
> Anyway Inverted world+something else gives Bleach an easy win here. Uryu can slice some fodder in two and use antithesis, Askin can use gift ring on sasukes eyes.
> ...




Antithesis?? That isn't working when he gets vapourised by a TBB (maybe against a clone). Askin also gets vapourised, Naruto is going to nuke the whole battlefield leaving only a few survivors. Most of them wont even get the chance to use their hax before getting no sold.


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## Sablés (Apr 1, 2018)

Source of Hate said:


> Once again, if Seireitei is 1000+ km diameter, he does


Uh no?

At _most _it's some hundred kilometers based on Kubo's input in the third movie


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## uchihakil (Apr 1, 2018)

Xhominid said:


> Dude, that can equally be applied to Naruto and the massive inconsistent state with Gamabunta's size and the size of the massive trees that make up the Village Hidden in the Leaf.




Yea but konoha's size was never hyped into being a country or anything like that, and konoha's showings are way more consistent we've seen it multiple times with consistent measurement. When pein destroyed it and multiple other examples, but sereiti on the other hand was totally different than the measurement given to it by kubo.


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## Keishin (Apr 1, 2018)

uchihakil said:


> Antithesis?? That isn't working when he gets vapourised by a TBB (maybe against a clone). Askin also gets vapourised, Naruto is going to nuke the whole battlefield leaving only a few survivors. Most of them wont even get the chance to use their hax before getting no sold.


Yhwach tells Nianzol to protect them with the Wind then or uses the Almighty to do that... Not like that's necessary when the inverted world slows them down enough to use deathdealing nerf.


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## Xhominid (Apr 1, 2018)

Sablés said:


> Actually, the novels confirm any panel we have of Seireitei in its entirety is a condensed view. There are numerous hill areas that are never shown but are within the training grounds in each squad perimeter.



This. Hell, it's been obvious the Seireitei is fucking gigantic considering the Sokyoku(I know I'm butchering it) Hill itself seems like they just built around the hill rather than made it themselves. Quite a huge bit of the Seiretei can even be stated to have plenty of wilderness areas as we've seen from where Ikkaku and Iba was when they "fought" each other in the Soul Society Arc.



uchihakil said:


> Yea but konoha's size was never hyped into being a country or anything like that, and konoha's showings are way more consistent we've seen it multiple times with consistent measurement. When pein destroyed it and multiple other examples, but sereiti on the other hand was totally different than the measurement given to it by kubo.



Actually, we have stuff from the novels that prove that the Seireitei is enormous and the issue is that Kubo just loves condensing the area in question. This can also work for Las Noches as well because Kubo does the same thing there and also hyped it to be just as gigantic.


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## Source of Hate (Apr 1, 2018)

> >We can actually see how big buildings are when zoomed out outside of sereiti, sereitei is not that big, *kubo has a problem of properly scaling his drawing in conjunction to his statements*. Its like the hill ichigo destroyed that kubo called a mountain, that shit aint no mountain, sereitei was seen multiple times and it wasn't that big, the biggest building at the centre of sereitei could be seen from every angle of sereitei.


You refuted your own claim. Kubo is not consistent with backgrounds and does not draw to scale. There are landscapes, mountains, and forests inside Seireitei that are not visible in aerial views. Actually, Seireitei's aerial shots look like an individual Squad 0 palace even though all 5(one of which holds a sea) of them plus the King's fit inside Seireitei. Yoruichi admittedly required hundreds of Shunpo to get from the white tower imprisoning Rukia to the hideout inside of Sokyoku Hill. The poison of Mayuri's Bankai is stated to spread over a 100-mile radius *inside* Seireitei. Etc... Too much contradicts visual representations of backgrounds that Kubo himself admits in interviews to not put too much effort in.



> > Your explanation as to why rinnegan only affects beings that are related to the rinnegan is fallacious AF. Firstly it was never stated in the manga or in the DB or any movie, and it was never hinted to be so. Sasuke genjutsu'ed the tailed beasts and made them the centre of gravity. It has nothing (ABSOLUTELY NOTHING) to do with the origin of the tailbeasts/rinnegan, if it was ever stated please link me to a scan where it was stated or at the very least implied.


The Rinnegan appears on victims when control is gained over their bodies. Pain and Obito used the Black Receivers to be able to transmit their influence on Summons, the Jinchuuriki, the Paths, etc. The Tailed Beasts don't require them for the same reason that the Juubi doesn't: they're already connected to the Rinnegan.



> > Yamamoto is gonna wreck the bleach team cast when he goes all out, he'll kill his team mates in the process,


So you don't deny that Yama has the power to destroy Soul Society?




> he's not beating naruto or sasuke or surviving a TBB (naruto especially has good heat resistance feats with kurama cloak).


15 million degrees Celsius heat resistance?


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## Steven (Apr 1, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Is how things are, you can go and search Ywach vs Kaguya yourself.


Both have the same status in their respective verse.But thats all

Yhwach is no match for Kaguya


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## Source of Hate (Apr 1, 2018)

Sablés said:


> Uh no?
> 
> At _most _it's some hundred kilometers based on Kubo's input in the third movie


Based on the 3rd movie, the diameter is something close to 1000 km


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 1, 2018)

Acnologia said:


> Both have the same status in their respective verse.But thats all
> 
> Yhwach is no match for Kaguya



She can't regenerate from the damage she takes or kill Ywach in any way, the diference in stats is small and the amount of offensive abilities closes the bridge.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Sablés (Apr 1, 2018)

No, it's not. At best, it was mentioned that there was some 200 or thereabout kilometers in the seireitei, with Kubo mentioning he wrote up the setting. Anything else means jack shit because the movie is non-canon.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Alita (Apr 1, 2018)

Keishin said:


> The mach 8000 for Naruto needs to be debunked already. It's retarded, it's not even a speed feat it's just the camera angle moving as Toneri could not even keep up himself to get to balance from being thrown up by the Golem.
> Along with the assumption that the moon isn't, like, atleast 95% hollow.
> 
> Anyway Inverted world+something else gives Bleach an easy win here. Uryu can slice some fodder in two and use antithesis, Askin can use gift ring on sasukes eyes.
> ...



That's not where the mach 8000 calc comes from. It's for the speed of one of those meteors he sent to naruto's planet I believe.


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## TYPE-Rey (Apr 1, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> She can't regenerate from the damage she takes or kill Ywach in any way, the diference in stats is small and the amount of offensive abilities closes the bridge


Except the differennce in stats is indeed big and the only thing Kaguya needs to do is to use IT. She can solo the whole Belch verse with that.
Also, do you nigs actually have any reliable way to measure how big Seiretei is or not ? The author constant;y contradicts his own fucking sizes by fucking up scaling and shit when he draws..so..if the author contradicts himself..the fuck are you babling about "Seiretei's true size " ?

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 1, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> Except the differennce in stats is indeed big and the only thing Kaguya needs to do is to use IT. She can solo the whole Belch verse with that.
> Also, do you nigs actually have any reliable way to measure how big Seiretei is or not ? The author constant;y contradicts his own fucking sizes by fucking up scaling and shit when he draws..so..if the author contradicts himself..the fuck are you babling about "Seiretei's true size " ?



She needs the moon for that and it would be useless on Ywach anyway.

Speed and power is about the same, somewhere between mach 1K and 10K, both having created planets.


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## Source of Hate (Apr 1, 2018)

Sablés said:


> No, it's not. At best, it was mentioned that there was some 200 or thereabout kilometers in the seireitei,


200 Ri in radius



> with Kubo mentioning he wrote up the setting. Anything else means jack shit because the movie is non-canon.


The setting is canon since Seireitei is in the manga. They're not going to randomly modify established world-building in a movie. It also coincides with Yoruichi's statement, probably because that is what they used for the movie

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TYPE-Rey (Apr 1, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> She needs the moon for that and it would be useless on Ywach anyway


She doesn't and no..it would be usefull on not only Yhwach but on the whole verse. This was discussed before. Nobody's fault Belch doesn't have mind resistance for shit and that the Lawlmighty contradicts itself in its shoiwngs.
Also..yeah country level to possibly continental Yhwach totally= Planet lvl Kaguya .

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Source of Hate (Apr 1, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> She doesn't and no..it would be usefull on not only Yhwach but on the whole verse. This was discussed before. Nobody's fault Belch doesn't have mind resistance for shit and that the Lawlmighty contradicts itself in its shoiwngs.
> Also..yeah country level to possibly continental Yhwach totally= Planet lvl Kaguya .


You don't need planet level shit to split Kaguya. Don't automatically assign her highest stat to the rest.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 1, 2018)

Source of Hate said:


> 200 Ri in radius



Area



TYPE-Rey said:


> She doesn't and no..it would be usefull on not only Yhwach but on the whole verse. This was discussed before. Nobody's fault Belch doesn't have mind resistance for shit and that the Lawlmighty contradicts itself in its shoiwngs.
> Also..yeah country level to possibly continental Yhwach totally= Planet lvl Kaguya .



Ywach got his mind erased by Ichibeis Bankai, Allmighty lolnoped that.

Also he created 3 planets, doesn't really matter how much people want to ignore that, even without that he has all of the Sternritter abilities too, Kaguya can't regen because of future rewriting so if she takes damage is over.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## shade0180 (Apr 1, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> She needs the moon for that



She doesn't.

The moon was made by hagoromo years after the first time Kaguya has used the first IT.


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## shade0180 (Apr 1, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Also he created 3 planets



lolnope... fuck off with your wank.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## TYPE-Rey (Apr 1, 2018)

Source of Hate said:


> You don't need planet level shit to split Kaguya. Don't automatically assign her highest stat to the rest.


Haven't done that and regardless, Yhwach can't really hurt Kaguya with DC anyway because A) he doesn't have the firepower and B) she can also BFR shit . Haxx is another story.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 1, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> She doesn't.
> 
> The moon was made by hagoromo years after the first time Kaguya has used the first IT.



Madara needed the moon and Kaguya did her thing offscreen.



shade0180 said:


> lolnope... fuck off with your wank.



It's the backstory of the manga, the whole  point of Aizen and Ywach war.


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## TYPE-Rey (Apr 1, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Ywach got his mind erased by Ichibeis Bankai, Allmighty lolnoped that.


Again..this was discussed before..think whatever you want, i really don't care to re-open that discussion.

Reactions: Useful 1


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## TYPE-Rey (Apr 1, 2018)

So, back to my question, do you people have a realiable way to measure shit ? Or are you just gonna pull bits and pieces from multiple medias (some of which is not even cannon ) just to get the biggest number  ?


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 1, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> Again..this was discussed before..think whatever you want, i really don't care to re-open that discussion.



Nobody answered why IT would work where a literal mindwipe trough reality warping failed.

People having discussed something and getting nowhere or to the wrong conclusion is irrelevant.


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## TYPE-Rey (Apr 1, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Nobody answered why IT would work where a literal mindwipe trough reality warping failed.
> 
> People having discussed something and getting nowhere or to the wrong conclusion is irrelevant


K.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Source of Hate (Apr 1, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> Haven't done that and regardless,


You're doing it right now


> Yhwach can't really hurt Kaguya with DC anyway because A) he doesn't have the firepower


Has a fuckton more than Sakura lol


> and B) she can also BFR shit.


So can a lot of characters in Bleach? Like, they have dimensional travel too

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Source of Hate (Apr 1, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> So, back to my question, do you people have a realiable way to measure shit ?


Don't feign ignorance. Yoruichi's statement is enough.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Alita (Apr 1, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Area
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He was fooled completely by aizen's KS. IT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>KS.

Kaguya even in base has small planet+ stats and massively hypersonic+ speed. And at her prime is planet+. Yhwach is just country+ and massively hypersonic+. Almighty is a NLF we don't assume he can come back from stuff above country+ level.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## TYPE-Rey (Apr 1, 2018)

Source of Hate said:


> You're doing it right now


Have i said anywhere that Kaguya has planet lv durability ? Yeah..i haven't.


Source of Hate said:


> Has a fuckton more than Sakura lol



It's like low-end outliers don't exist.
Please stop talking to me.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 1, 2018)

Source of Hate said:


> Don't feign ignorance. Yoruichi's statement is enough.



No it isn't.

Kubo made it vague because ha didn't want to give a number.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sablés (Apr 1, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Also he created 3 planets


I don't think I have ever seen you make one correct post about anything.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 1, 2018)

Alita54 said:


> He was fooled completely by aizen's KS. IT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>KS.
> 
> Kaguya even in base has small planet+ stats and massively hypersonic+ speed. And at her prime is planet+. Yhwach is just country+ and massively hypersonic+. Almighty is a NLF we don't assume he can come back from stuff above country+ level.



Kioka Suigetsu failed in the end, Tsukuyomi doesn't have feats of messing with precognition and the ichimonji example still exist.

Ywach has durability ignoring abilities and is close to planet level simply because the soul king created the earth in Bleach.


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## Affectugender (Apr 1, 2018)

Daio said:


> "vs Bleach Verse" It's not a gauntlet.


Everyone here gets one shotted and Naruto and Sasuke are fast enough to kill 99% of Bleach before they reliaze. So it really doesn't matter if its a gauntlet or not.[/QUOTE]



Daio said:


> "You're better off arguing for AOE because they're not blitzing everyone in the entire verse before they get cucked by the onslaught of hax. AOE doesn't even mean shit considering everyone releases can escape it.


 Yea I'm arguing for AOE because that's is how most of Bleach character is getting killed lmao. Naruto makes 7 clones and fucks everyone up before they can pull off their "hax"



Daio said:


> "They aren't. One of the accepted Bleach calcs here yields Mach 200, which even the calcer agrees is arguably 5 times higher and that scales to fodder Lieutenants like Omaeda, who was effortlessly blitzed by SS Arc Shikai Ichigo. Yeah, the Rasenshuriken is getting aged.


Just cause the calcer agrees with his calcs doesn't mean its true lmao. Also Mach 200 vs Mach 7000 Barran gets killed with AOE attacks before he can release.



Daio said:


> "To be blunt, your opinion on his X-Axis is irrelevant. It's instantaneous spacial piercing and the speed gap is definitely not high at all. Even then, the difference in distance Naruto and Sasuke would have to move compared to Lille, is much greater than any "speed gap" you're thinking about.


To be blunt X-Axis best feat is against fodder. So fuck off with ur "hax". Yea when most top tier Bleach character gets calced to 500 and Nardo to 7000. The speed gap is HIGH. Lilie gets killed by Naruto AOE since sage chakra fucks up intang.



Daio said:


> "NLF*. Yeah, no. Stop incorrectly using "NLF" as an excuse. I see this too often


How is that an excuse? Gerrard has never shown to regenerate from an attack that vaporizes his entire body at once. Also gets sealed. Keep wanking



Daio said:


> "Refute me instead of literally denying what has been laid down. I can get the text from the Light Novel if that's what you're looking for but I'd like you to tell me how and why stopping the destruction of several worlds as a corpse, with passive reiatsu, isn't At least Planet level.


GL making anyone believe Bleach is even continent level let alone Planet level. Go back to screwattack.


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## Source of Hate (Apr 1, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> Have i said anywhere that Kaguya has planet lv durability ? Yeah..i haven't.
> 
> 
> It's like low-end outliers don't exist.
> Please stop talking to me.


Oh it's an outlier now? Interesting. Do you mind posting one of her good durability feats?

Reactions: Like 1


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 1, 2018)

Sablés said:


> I don't think I have ever seen you make one correct post about anything.



That's because you believe your head canons to be facts, like that idiocy of EoS Ichigo being stronger than Dangai because he "melted" Ywach with a cut  

Or forgetting that Aizen can lower his reiatsu to be felt.

Or scaling Yoruichi to Kenpachi.

Reactions: MAXIMUM 1


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## Source of Hate (Apr 1, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> No it isn't.
> 
> Kubo made it vague because ha didn't want to give a number.


10 day walk is a pretty specific number. That is average walking speed for 10 days


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 1, 2018)

Source of Hate said:


> 10 day walk is a pretty specific number. That is average walking speed for 10 days



That's a way to rule out the other entrance to move the plot, Kubo didn't give a number because of how absurd it is for supersonic characters to take 10 days to get anywhere in Seireitei.


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## TYPE-Rey (Apr 1, 2018)

Source of Hate said:


> Oh it's an outlier now? Interesting. Do you mind posting one of her good durability feats?


I really don't need to. Powerscalling  is more than enough in this case and if not ..oh idk..taking Nardo's punches or fighting Sauce's perfect Susanoo without any damage should sufice.
Anyway, It's been 30+ minutes since i asked a question and i still haven't gotten a concrete response. 
How typicall.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Sablés (Apr 1, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> So, back to my question, do you people have a realiable way to measure shit ? Or are you just gonna pull bits and pieces from multiple medias (some of which is not even cannon ) just to get the biggest number  ?



-There is no accurate visual representation of seireitei's size. 
-There's a specific number from a movie (200kms I believe) Kubo wrote the setting for. But it's also non-canon
-There's Hitsugaya telling Kira to run away so he doesn't get caught up in Tenso Jurin, which spans 7 kilometers. So Seireitei is quite obviously much larger than that.
-Yoruichi's 10 day statement, which was corroborated by the narrative and I believe was only ever contested because the visuals contradict it. Though, as said above. Visuals were nonsense to begin with.

That's about all we know. I doubt anything productive will rise out of this shit, but I thought I might as well provide the info.

Reactions: MAXIMUM 1


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## DreamySunday (Apr 1, 2018)

Someone please tell me this thread is a big April fools joke.

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Source of Hate (Apr 1, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> That's a way to rule out the other entrance as a way to move the plot, Kubo didn't give a number because of how absurd it is for supersonic characters to take 10 days to get anywhere in Seireitei.


Maybe they would spend energy unnecesarily.


Sablés said:


> -There is no accurate visual representation of seireitei's size.
> -There's a specific number from a movie (200kms I believe) Kubo wrote the setting for. But it's also non-canon
> -There's Hitsugaya telling Kira to run away so he doesn't get caught up in Tenso Jurin, which spans 7 kilometers. So Seireitei is quite obviously much larger than that.
> -Yoruichi's 10 day statement, which was corroborated by the narrative and I believe was only ever contested because the visuals contradict it. Though, as said above. Visuals were nonsense to begin with.
> ...


And the landscapes in Seireitei. And the Royal Realm comparison

Reactions: Winner 1


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 1, 2018)

Sablés said:


> There's a specific number from a movie (200kms I believe) Kubo wrote the setting for. But it's also non-canon



Is also km²



Sablés said:


> -There's Hitsugaya telling Kira to run away so he doesn't get caught up in Tenso Jurin, which spans 7 kilometers. So Seireitei is quite obviously much larger than that.



Isn't 24km?


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## Sablés (Apr 1, 2018)

Source of Hate said:


> And the landscapes in Seireitei. Amd the Royal Realm comparison


Which...go in hand explaining the visuals are nonsense. They add nothing quantifiable so I omitted them.

Protip, you'll get your point across much better if you skip the needless filler and wank.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 1, 2018)

Source of Hate said:


> Maybe they would spend energy unnecesarily.



To make sense Seireitei has to be the size of a continent, it's just stupid and contradicts the size of the Rukongai districts.


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## shade0180 (Apr 1, 2018)

DreamySunday said:


> Someone please tell me this thread is a big April fools joke.



lol and hate are the april fools joke  but they extend even before and after the event.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Source of Hate (Apr 1, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> I really don't need to. Powerscalling  is more than enough in this case and if not ..oh idk..taking Nardo's punches or fighting Sauce's perfect Susanoo without any damage should sufice.


Lol no. Show me her taking a direct hit with little to no damage



> Anyway, It's been 30+ minutes since i asked a question and i still haven't gotten a concrete response.
> How typicall.


I told you Yoruichi's statement

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TYPE-Rey (Apr 1, 2018)

Sablés said:


> -There is no accurate visual representation of seireitei's size.
> -There's a specific number from a movie (200kms I believe) Kubo wrote the setting for. But it's also non-canon
> -There's Hitsugaya telling Kira to run away so he doesn't get caught up in Tenso Jurin, which spans 7 kilometers. So Seireitei is quite obviously much larger than that.
> -Yoruichi's 10 day statement, which was corroborated by the narrative and I believe was only ever contested because the visuals contradict it. Though, as said above. Visuals were nonsense to begin with.
> ...


First of all, thank you for the answer...
So..basically  from the info you have posted the size can vary from 7 km.+.which is the lowest value given to size/distance to literally ??? Km since they high ends are contradicted by cannonicity and the hack's sense of scale.
Yep...good luck with finding an actuall reliable size.
So, in essence the arguments of some of those brainlets stem from basically nothing of substance. Good to know...fucking moon lvl Kenpachi..

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## shade0180 (Apr 1, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> To make sense Seireitei has to be the size of a continent, it's just stupid and contradicts the size of the Rukongai districts.



fuck off, that's not even feasible considering sereitei isn't even the size of a country.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 1, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> fuck off, that's not even feasible considering sereitei isn't even the size of a country.



Why do you tell me to fuck off while agreeing with me?

Are any of you actually reading the thread or just have a knee jerk reaction to anything after a certain page?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## shade0180 (Apr 1, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Why do you tell me to fuck off while agreeing with me?


I am not agreeing with you, fuck off. dumbass.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## TYPE-Rey (Apr 1, 2018)

Source of Hate said:


> Lol no. Show me her taking a direct hit with little to no damage


How about no ? There's literally no reason for that. Only  someone like you would take that C.I.S filled low end when determining Kaguya's durability.


Source of Hate said:


> statement


No.


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## Source of Hate (Apr 1, 2018)

Well since Yama's Reiatsu is capable of destroying Soul Society, he solos by flexing. Stay mad c:

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Sablés (Apr 1, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> First of all, thank you for the answer...
> So..basically  from the info you have posted the size can vary from 7 km.+.which is the lowest value given to size/distance to literally ??? Km since they high ends are contradicted by cannonicity and the hack's sense of scale.
> Yep...good luck with finding an actuall reliable size.
> So, in essence the arguments of some of those brainlets stem from basically nothing of substance. Good to know...fucking moon lvl Kenpachi..


Mistake on one part. Tenso Jurin is 3 ri, which equals 12 kilometers. But yes more or less.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Source of Hate (Apr 1, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> How about no ? There's literally no reason for that. Only  someone like you would take that C.I.S filled low end when determining Kaguya's durability.


Durability doesn't scale linearly in Naruto, buddy. Feats or Gtfo. Do you like that medicine? Take it

Reactions: Agree 1


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## shade0180 (Apr 1, 2018)

Source of Hate said:


> Well since Yama's Reiatsu is capable of destroying Soul Society, he solos by flexing. Stay mad c:


more like you're too desperate.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## shade0180 (Apr 1, 2018)

Source of Hate said:


> Durability doesn't scale linearly in Naruto, buddy. Feats or Gtfo. Do you like that medicine? Take it


feats, literally Nardo tank a moon cutting hit, Kaguya tank 9 Rasenshuriken enhance by Biju, Juubito tank 4 juubi dama. 

and you cling to the stupid low end.

Reactions: Like 1


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## TYPE-Rey (Apr 1, 2018)

Source of Hate said:


> Durability doesn't scale linearly in Naruto, buddy. Feats or Gtfo. Do you like that medicine? Take it


Why do i need to prove something that has been established years ago again ?


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## Alita (Apr 1, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Kioka Suigetsu failed in the end, Tsukuyomi doesn't have feats of messing with precognition and the ichimonji example still exist.
> 
> Ywach has durability ignoring abilities and is close to planet level simply because the soul king created the earth in Bleach.



No it didn't. It deceived him long enough so ichigo could land a killing blow. IT is a planet+ scale mind fuck technique. Nobody in bleach has resisted hax on a planetary scale.


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## Affectugender (Apr 1, 2018)

Can people who are supporting Bleach to continent levels actually provide any cacls? scans? novels lines? or are we just taking NFL and statements as evidence now?
Also Seireitei continent size. 
Also, the guy who believes Kaguya doesn't scale to the highest durability feat Nardo series has. 
Yoruichi statement is the only thing you can wank and its a statement.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Source of Hate (Apr 1, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> more like you're too desperate.


I dunno. I've been mentioning the factor for a couple of pages and nobody addressed it. Only you replied to it right now with emotional distress yet no rebuttal

Reactions: Agree 1


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## shade0180 (Apr 1, 2018)

Source of Hate said:


> I dunno. I've been mentioning the factor for a couple of pages and nobody addressed it. Only you replied to it right now with emotional distress yet no rebuttal


factor that got rebutted ages ago.

, you think the member of the forum is new and only what you say is true? Go and search the forum for that shit and you will find the fucking rebuttal.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 1, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> I am not agreeing with you, fuck off. dumbass.



Yeah you are, dumbass

Unless you believe the seireitei is the size of a continent, like a Bleach wanker.





Sablés said:


> Mistake on one part. Tenso Jurin is 3 ri, which equals 12 kilometers. But yes more or less.



Aren't you going to praise me for being right again? 



Alita54 said:


> No it didn't. It deceived him long enough so ichigo could land a killing blow. IT is a planet+ scale mind fuck technique. Nobody in bleach has resisted hax on a planetary scale.



Again, it failed in the end and Ichibei's technique is far stronger.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## SwordSlayer99 (Apr 1, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> She needs the moon for that and it would be useless on Ywach anyway.


As far as we know Kaguya went to the Naruto-planet, ate the chakra fruit and used IT to turn people into Zetsu's, then she went and absorbed the Shinju and turned into the Juubi. She blatantly used IT on people maybe years before she got sealed.


Source of Hate said:


> You don't need planet level shit to split Kaguya.


You pretty much do. 
Weakened Kaguya pretty much shrugged off 9 Bijuu Rasenshurikens and given that Toneri's 2 Zetaton GWRE couldn't harm BSM Naruto with a headshot, it's logical to assume a single Bijuu RS is = GWRE, which would give us 18 zetatons. But that low end is crazy. 50% BSM Naruto went from being far weaker than Juubito, to no chakra cloak SPSM Naruto cutting the Shinju in half with a Yoton: Rasenshuriken and being basically on par with 1-eyed Juudara. 

4th War SPSM(cloak) > SPSM(-cloak) > 100% BSM > Toneri > Juubito >> 50% BSM. SPSM is literally tiers, upon tiers more powerful than BSM. It takes ~50/55ish zetatons to blow up the earth and if the Bijuu RS are individually ~2x stronger then GWRE then that gives a total of 9*4 = 36 zetatons. 3x stronger is 54 zetatons. And you have to remember, that this is weakened Kaguya without all the Bijuu's chakra lm


Source of Hate said:


> Durability doesn't scale linearly in Naruto, buddy. Feats or Gtfo. Do you like that medicine? Take it


ao.
Weakened Kaguya shrugged off absolute bare minimum 36 zetatons, but more likely 54 zetatons 9 Bijuu RS.

Also, you can gtfo with that Sakura outlier shit. 100% BSM Naruto tanked and punched through GWRE that sliced the goddamn moon in half, and Kaguya shrugged off 9 Bijuu RS that are individually far more powerful than GWRE. Unless your trying to say Sakura's punches are > Small Planet level BSM Naruto, let alone Kaguya, then it's obvious her "feat" is an outlier. Sasuke's PS couldn't really harm Kaguya, but Sakura can? I don't think so, she hurt Kaguya with the power of plot.


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## Source of Hate (Apr 1, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> feats, literally Nardo tank a moon cutting hit, Kaguya tank 9 Rasenshuriken enhance by Biju, Juubito tank 4 juubi dama.
> 
> and you cling to the stupid low end.


And yet it was stated that the Juubi Jin is vulnerable to Taijutsu. Madara vs Gai ring a bell?


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## shade0180 (Apr 1, 2018)

Source of Hate said:


> And yet it was stated that the Juubi Jin is vulnerable to Taijutsu. Madara vs Gai ring a bell?


No that's not a statement,also Gai literally need the 8th gate and that just harm madara.

 it didn't kill him, he was regenerating. 

Seriously you are basically adding your own opinionated head cannon when it isn't even mentioned in the series.


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## Sablés (Apr 1, 2018)

Affectugender said:


> Can people who are supporting Bleach to continent levels actually provide any cacls?





> “It’s an emerging religious cult that was recently born. Because of the lengthy earthquake we had half a year ago, it sparked a considerable amount of disorder around the world.”
> 
> The lengthy earthquake.
> 
> ...


Yhwach's actions caused a global Earthquake on Earth and in SS.


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## shade0180 (Apr 1, 2018)

Sablés said:


> Yhwach's actions caused a global Earthquake on Earth and in SS.



an event which isn't really caused by Yhwach, but the disappearance of the soul king.


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## TYPE-Rey (Apr 1, 2018)

Depending on the duration of the earthquake, that could bump up Yhwach a little...but what the hell is up with the people who write Bleach ? They really don't like numbers.


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## shade0180 (Apr 1, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> Depending on the duration of the earthquake, that could bump up Yhwach a little..


except Yhwach has nothing to do with it. so he isn't getting bump up.


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## Affectugender (Apr 1, 2018)

Sablés said:


> Yhwach's actions caused a global Earthquake on Earth and in SS.


Does that scale to Yhwach tho? Since it was caused by the "result the boundaries between Soul Society, the Human World and Hueco Mundo began to collapse" Doesn't look like he created it.


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## TYPE-Rey (Apr 1, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> except Yhwach has nothing to do with it. so he isn't getting bump up.


haven't read the LN's so i'm lacking context ..but i don't think Sables would have quoted  that passage if it wouldn't haad something to do with Yhwach or the SK.


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## shade0180 (Apr 1, 2018)

TYPE-Rey said:


> haven't read the LN's so i'm lacking context ..but i don't think Sables would have quoted  that passage if it wouldn't haad something to do with Yhwach or the SK.


it had something to do with the SK.

Nothing to do with Yhwach.


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## Sablés (Apr 1, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> an event which isn't really caused by Yhwach, but the disappearance of the soul king.


Who maintained it in the first place? Soul King being a special snowflake was debunked by the fact that there are others who can fulfill the same requirement, provided they have the power. Ichigo in question was the one Ichibei designated as the next SK when the current one bit the dust.


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## shade0180 (Apr 1, 2018)

Sablés said:


> Who maintained it in the first place? Soul King being a special snowflake was debunked by the fact that there are others who can fulfill the same requirement, provided they have the power. Ichigo in question was the one Ichibei designated as the next SK when the current one bit the dust.



I'll throw in ray earth.
It is a positional heritage.

  Seriously bleach isn't that special also the concept has been used up since ages ago.


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## Sablés (Apr 1, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> I'll throw in ray earth.
> 
> It is a positional heritage.


Ichibei can make Ichigo the SK via namefuckery. But it had to be Ichigo precisely because he was the only one strong enough. If anyone could fit the requirement, he wouldn't go through the trouble of sealing some kid that had nothing to do with them. Power is necessary, the ability to control the flow of souls is a skill of the SK.


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## shade0180 (Apr 1, 2018)

Sablés said:


> Ichibei can make Ichigo the SK via namefuckery. But it had to be Ichigo precisely because he was the only one strong enough. If anyone could fit the requirement, he wouldn't go through the trouble of sealing some kid that had nothing to do with them.



does not matter again it's a position to give stability nothing else.

 same concept they used in rayearth.


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## Affectugender (Apr 1, 2018)

Sablés said:


> Who maintained it in the first place? Soul King being a special snowflake was debunked by the fact that there are others who can fulfill the same requirement, provided they have the power. Ichigo in question was the one Ichibei designated as the next SK when the current one bit the dust.


Why is maintaining the boundaries scaling to any stats?


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## shade0180 (Apr 1, 2018)

Affectugender said:


> Why is maintaining the boundaries scaling to any stats?




because of anchor concept.

 when there are other concept that could be used.


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## Sablés (Apr 1, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> does not matter again it's a position to give stability nothing else.
> 
> same concept they used in rayearth.


No idea what rayearth is. Explain the circumstance and why it's equivalent to this scenario


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## shade0180 (Apr 1, 2018)

Sablés said:


> No idea what rayearth is. Explain the circumstance and why it's equivalent to this scenario


princess of rayearth - make the planet stable.

when the princess died someone needs to replace her. But it can't be anyone else except this certain person (the MC) because plot determined so.

It doesn't matter if he or she is weaker than the last person in position, he/she just need to fill it in.

-

Reminds you of anything?


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## Sablés (Apr 1, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> It doesn't matter if he or she is weaker than the last person in position, he just need to fill it in.


Then you're using a false equivalence.

As I've stated.



Sablés said:


> But it had to be Ichigo precisely because he was the only one strong enough.



Not anyone can become the SK.


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## shade0180 (Apr 1, 2018)

I'll throw another one Mana series..


 



Sablés said:


> Then you're using a false equivalence.
> 
> As I've stated.



Nope not a false equivalence.





> Not anyone can become the SK.



yes same here not anyone can become the princess "only the specified person" by the author


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 1, 2018)

Affectugender said:


> Why is maintaining the boundaries scaling to any stats?



Because the reiatsu of Ywach is a significant part of the energy current that keeps each world from basically falling on top of each other, and he has complete control of the 3 planes of existence (because the soul king power was used to split and set the rules of each in the beginning)

A small amount of the energy from that current did this


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## Sablés (Apr 1, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> yes same here not anyone can become the princess "only the specified person" by the author


How is that specified person determined in that series. Why is it relevant to this one and what makes you think it's equitable?

Fair reminder? Ichibei's powers are reality warping. He gives something a name? They get its attributes. Despite this, it still had to be Ichigo.


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## shade0180 (Apr 1, 2018)

Sablés said:


> How is that specified person determined in that series. Why is it relevant to this one and what makes you think it's equitable?



She's a Magic Knight


Sablés said:


> Fair reminded? Ichibei's powers are reality warping. He gives something a name? They get its attributes. Despite this, it still had to be Ichigo.



Which is a plot device.

 nothing here changes about what I just posted.


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## shade0180 (Apr 1, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Because the reiatsu of Ywach is a significant part of the energy current that keeps each world from basically falling on top of each other, and he has complete control of the 3 planes of existence (because the soul king power was used to split and set the rules of each in the beginning)
> 
> A small amount of the energy from that current did this



Go to the corner your bullshit is not needed here.


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## Sablés (Apr 1, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> She's a Magic Knight
> 
> 
> Which is a plot device.
> ...


More like you didn't address the issue at all. You're stonewalling.

A chosen one scenario can't possibly work here, because Ichibei's method circumvents precisely that.


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## LazyWaka (Apr 1, 2018)

What kind of energy are we looking at for creating (small, seeing as humanity viewed them as to insignificant to issue earthquake warnings despite how long they were lasting) earthquakes across a planet?



SwordSlayer99 said:


> Weakened Kaguya pretty much shrugged off 9 Bijuu Rasenshurikens and given that Toneri's 2 Zetaton GWRE couldn't harm BSM Naruto with a headshot, it's logical to assume a single Bijuu RS is = GWRE, which would give us 18 zetatons. But that low end is crazy. 50% BSM Naruto went from being far weaker than Juubito, to no chakra cloak SPSM Naruto cutting the Shinju in half with a Yoton: Rasenshuriken and being basically on par with 1-eyed Juudara.
> 
> 4th War SPSM(cloak) > SPSM(-cloak) > 100% BSM > Toneri > Juubito >> 50% BSM. SPSM is literally tiers, upon tiers more powerful than BSM. It takes ~50/55ish zetatons to blow up the earth and if the Bijuu RS are individually ~2x stronger then GWRE then that gives a total of 9*4 = 36 zetatons. 3x stronger is 54 zetatons. And you have to remember, that this is weakened Kaguya without all the Bijuu's chakra lm



Toneri's feat was 1.2 zettatons, not 2. And you're being way to liberal with multipliers. Most you can do is apply 1.2 Zt's per Rasenshuriken which would give 10.8 Zt's.


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## shade0180 (Apr 1, 2018)

Sablés said:


> A chosen one scenario can't possibly work here, because Ichibei's method circumvents precisely that.



 except it didn't circumvent it. It turns Ichigo into the soul king. If Ichibei can remove the Soul king out of the concept then that's circumventing it.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 1, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> Go to the corner your bullshit is not needed here.



Still salty about looking as a moron for not realizing you where agreeing with continent sized Seireitei? 



Sablés said:


> A chosen one scenario can't possibly work here, because Ichibei's method circumvents precisely that.



There actually seems to be another requirement, to be something  with characteristics from each major race, although that might just be a result of what is needed to reach the necessary powerlevel.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## shade0180 (Apr 1, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Still salty about looking as a moron for not realizing you where agreeing with me?
> 
> 
> 
> There actually seems to be another requirement, to be something  with characteristics from each mayor race, although that might just be a result of what is needed to reach the necessary powerlevel.


you are a moron for even thinking that I am agreeing with you

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 1, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> you are a moron for even thinking that I am agreeing with you



You agree to continent sized Seiritei then


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## Adamant soul (Apr 1, 2018)

Sables, correct me if I'm wrong but don't they end up using Yhwach's corpse as the SK? Reiatsu is equivalent to the LIFE force of a spiritual being, therefore corpse Yhwach shouldn't have any power yet is still able to serve as their SK. I don't think being the SK is a power thing is all I'm saying.

Reactions: MAXIMUM 1


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## shade0180 (Apr 1, 2018)

Sablés said:


> A chosen one scenario can't possibly work here,



also there's no chosen one. She is a magic knight because the princess used her as her knight before, that's literally it.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 1, 2018)

Adamant soul said:


> Sables, correct me if I'm wrong but don't they end up using Yhwach's corpse as the SK? Reiatsu is equivalent to the LIFE force of a spiritual being, therefore corpse Yhwach shouldn't have any power yet is still able to serve as their SK. I don't think being the SK is a power thing is all I'm saying.



It's not entirely dead, his will itself only ended when Kazui killed him 10 years later.

Also the SK body is made from his own power, that's why Ywach doesn't have a human body anymore.


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## shade0180 (Apr 1, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> You agree to continent sized Seiritei then



 I'm saying Seireitei is not even country level. why would I agree with continent size.

is this shit A and B only, when C,D,E,F,G could exist.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Apr 1, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> I'm saying Seireitei is not even country level. why would I agree with continent size.
> 
> is this shit A and B only, when C,D,E,F,G could exist.



Because SoH said Seireitei is continent sized and I said that was stupid, and because that was stupid the 10 days statement is useless, double that because it contradicts the Rukongai size which surround Seireitei.

Therefore, it can't either be claimed to be country sized 

Get it now ningen ?


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## shade0180 (Apr 1, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Because SoH said Seireitei is continent level and I said that was stupid, and because that was stupid the 10 days statement is useless, double that because it contradicts the Rukongai size which surround Seireitei.


whatev

Reactions: Ningen 1


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## Sablés (Apr 1, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> except it didn't circumvent it.


Okay, let me be sure we're on the right page. You're arguing that the seat of the SK can be filled by anyone chosen, and power is not a part of the equation.

Here is where you're wrong: Ichibei's plan is to embed the concept of the SK onto Ichigo should the real one die. How does this outright contradict your argument? Because Ichigo being chosen was considered a desperate scenario where he was left with no other choice. Ichigo has no direct relationship to the SK, none of the stated qualifications that could make him one either. If there is any requisite, it was artificially fulfilled by Ichibei's powers. In other words?  Ichibei can make any expendable fodder the SK...Instead the person he chooses just happens to be the 2nd strongest guy around, who matched Yhwach in power.

^If your argument is not the above, then explain properly.


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## Sablés (Apr 1, 2018)

Adamant soul said:


> Sables, correct me if I'm wrong but don't they end up using Yhwach's corpse as the SK? Reiatsu is equivalent to the LIFE force of a spiritual being, therefore corpse Yhwach shouldn't have any power yet is still able to serve as their SK. I don't think being the SK is a power thing is all I'm saying.


Yhwach is not dead and still produces reiatsu. If he didn't, they'd be kind of screwed by Ichibei's testament.

All I have to say on the topic since I have other shit to do,


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## Adamant soul (Apr 1, 2018)

Sablés said:


> Yhwach is not dead and still produces reiatsu. If he didn't, they'd be kind of screwed by Ichibei's testament.
> 
> All I have to say on the topic since I have other shit to do,



Ah okay


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## shade0180 (Apr 1, 2018)

Sablés said:


> You're arguing that the seat of the SK can be filled by anyone chosen



again  it isn't being chosen, but a plot device of the author.


Sablés said:


> and power is not a part of the equation.



this is the only true part you got.


Sablés said:


> Ichibei's plan is to embed the concept of the SK onto Ichigo should the real one die. How does this outright contradict your argument? Because Ichigo being chosen was considered a desperate scenario where he was left with no other choice



which is the same shit in the scenario in Rayearth.


Sablés said:


> Ichigo has no direct relationship to the SK



Same shit with Rayearth.



Sablés said:


> none of the stated qualifications that could make him one either.


again same shit with Rayearth.



Sablés said:


> If there is any requisite, it was artificially fulfilled by Ichibei's powers.


and Rayearth was fulfilled just because she was a magic knight.



Sablés said:


> chibei can make any expendable fodder the SK...Instead the person he chooses just happens to be the 2nd strongest guy around, who matched Yhwach in power.



the character that was given the position is a high school girl not hand pick but was taken due to the princess needing a magic knight for a moment nothing else.


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## Sablés (Apr 1, 2018)

Shade, your point makes no sense.

Ichigo doesn't become the SK of his own will. They intended to force him into it and it involves sealing him there forever. This is not only retarded from an ideological standpoint given their connection, but it's equally stupid in the event that Ichibei and co would have to fight him for it. They could make anybody the SK. They picked someone stronger than them, and has nothing to do with them.

Why go through all this trouble when they could use literally anybody else under their jurisdiction? If not _make _one given the powers of some?

Plot device is an un-acceptable cop-out when it can neither be proven and goes against all forms of logic


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## shade0180 (Apr 1, 2018)

Sablés said:


> Shade, your point makes no sense.
> 
> Ichigo doesn't become the SK of his own will. They intended to force him into it and it involves sealing him there forever. This is not only retarded from an ideological standpoint given their connection, but it's equally stupid in the event that Ichibei and co would have to fight him for it. They could make anybody the SK. They picked someone stronger than them, and has nothing to do with them.
> 
> ...



 and yet the author specifically wants it to be him, you can call it whatever you want it is a plot device.


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## Sablés (Apr 1, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> yet the author specifically wants it to be him


>specifically wants it to be him
>more like he was the only one they had who could meet the requirement. 

Textbook stonewalling. What you're doing is the equivalent of calling PIS on a feat without a shred of evidence on why it's so.


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## shade0180 (Apr 1, 2018)

Sablés said:


> Ichigo doesn't become the SK of his own will. They intended to force him into it and it involves sealing him there forever.



 shit is rayearth also does this.

 The MC doesn't want the position, they wanted to put her there and seal her. 


Sablés said:


> This is not only retarded from an ideological standpoint given their connection, but it's equally stupid in the event that Ichibei and co would have to fight him for it.



Same shit here concidering the MC was also stronger than them.




Sablés said:


> hey could make anybody the SK. They picked someone stronger than them, and has nothing to do with them.



 you're basically telling me what ray earth did.


Sablés said:


> Why go through all this trouble when they could use literally anybody else under their jurisdiction? If not _make _one given the powers of some?



Try asking Kubo.


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## shade0180 (Apr 1, 2018)

Sablés said:


> >specifically wants it to be him
> >more like he was the only one they had who could meet the requirement.



not chosen. need requirement.

 stables pick one.


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## shade0180 (Apr 1, 2018)

Sablés said:


> Textbook stonewalling. What you're doing is the equivalent of calling PIS on a feat without a shred of evidence on why it's so.



 except I am telling you that the concept has been done, and you are putting a finger on your ear. that's not stonewalling.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Apr 2, 2018)

Shade you are stonewalling.

Ichigo was the only person on Soul Society’s side that could become the Soul King, he met the requirements and one of them is a huge amount of power considering what the SK does fundamentally.

Yhwach got a hugeass fucking boost from absorbing FRAGMENTS of the SK, Ichigo was going to be a full SK most likely.

Saying some shit about being a “chosen one” is just thematically incorrect in this case, Ichigo isnt the only one available to fill the SKs place cause of some random shit, hes the only person/thing that could actually handle and keep the worlds in balance which is almost solely based on power.


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## shade0180 (Apr 2, 2018)

didn't you read what stables and I have been posting


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## shade0180 (Apr 2, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Shade you are stonewalling.



Also it's fucking funny how you just entered the thread to call me for stonewalling when you just said what Sables already said.

 who's stone walling now.



> Saying some shit about being a “chosen one” is just thematically incorrect in this case, Ichigo isnt the only one available to fill the SKs place cause of some random shit, hes the only person/thing that could actually handle and keep the worlds in balance which is almost solely based on power.



 who is talking about chosen ones here.

Not the chosen one -> he is the only one.

take your pick. You can't have both.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Apr 2, 2018)

obd really going downhill recently


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## shade0180 (Apr 2, 2018)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> obd really going downhill recently



you guys allowed HST to get out of MSBD.

 i don't have a problem with the convo going to the main forum though.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Apr 2, 2018)

in any case yhwach is still the strongest individual character in the hst

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1 | Disagree 1


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## shade0180 (Apr 2, 2018)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> in any case yhwach is still the strongest individual character in the hst



 yea, right.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1 | Ningen 1


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## Nighty the Mighty (Apr 2, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> yea, right.



does bleach still really cause this much butthurt? 

thought people would have gotten over stuff like this by now

Reactions: Agree 2


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## shade0180 (Apr 2, 2018)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> does bleach still really cause this much butthurt?
> 
> thought people would have gotten over stuff like this by now



 more like bleach tard is still butthurt about not being the strongest.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Nighty the Mighty (Apr 2, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> more like bleach tard is still butthurt about not being the strongest.



still this mad

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Xhominid (Apr 2, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> more like bleach tard is still butthurt about not being the strongest.



Dude, people like me don't even care about that shit anymore and yet I find it more funny how many times people will get all over Bleach's shit every time it's in a VS. topic even moreso than the other HST.

And to again run this plot point completely down to the ground:

Yhwach was ONLY made the Soul King AFTER he absorbed the Soul King otherwise ICHIGO would have been made the Soul King, full stop. That came from the novels from Kubo himself with that exact wording. This was implied even in the manga itself with Shunsui giving Ichigo's friends tickets to the Soul Society and Ichigo may never return and Ichibei outright believing Ichigo would lose and sent him to fight against Yhwach to die.

It's outright explained it's the reiatsu as it's been heavily hinted that Yhwach isn't dead even at the timeskip which further points out the very nature of the Soul King since the original wasn't died either and his reiatsu was very much alive and pissed at the Shinigami.

And thus the anchor effect does apply to the Soul King as it's their power to allow that to happen.

Reactions: Like 2 | Disagree 1


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## shade0180 (Apr 2, 2018)

Xhominid said:


> e, people like me don't even care about that shit anymore


 and yet here you are posting.

Reactions: Disagree 2


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## Xhominid (Apr 2, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> and yet here you are posting.



I see you neg me but you don't even have the balls to refute me. ck

Now get out of here you stinking animal.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## shade0180 (Apr 2, 2018)

Xhominid said:


> I see you neg me but you don't even have the balls to refute me. ck
> 
> Now get out of here you stinking animal.


when did I neg you?

 How funny that you need to lie about this shit.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Xhominid (Apr 2, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> when did I neg you?
> 
> How funny that you need to lie about this shit.



You put in the disagree, you know what that is...


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## shade0180 (Apr 2, 2018)

Xhominid said:


> You put in the disagree, you know what that is...


I put disagree.

 that's not a neg. that's telling you I disagree. there's 3 music player two of them are broken saying the same shit as the first one. So, why do I need to repeat the argument over and over again just to be told I am stonewalling.


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## Xhominid (Apr 2, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> I put disagree.
> 
> that's not a neg. that's telling you I disagree. there's literally 3 music player saying the same shit why do I need to repeat the argument over and over again just to be told I am stonewalling.



But you are stonewalling and we gave reasons why. Not our fault you are just too stubborn to admit you are wrong. 

But then again, it's none of my business.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## shade0180 (Apr 2, 2018)

Xhominid said:


> But you are stonewalling and we gave reasons why. Not our fault you are just too stubborn to admit you are wrong.
> 
> But then again, it's none of my business.



except the reason you gave is the same shit as stable.

If you put the same post as the other poster, why do I need to change my post just because you are another poster





Xhominid said:


> ot our fault you are just too stubborn to admit you are wrong.



except I'm not wrong.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## uchihakil (Apr 2, 2018)

Keishin said:


> Yhwach tells Nianzol to protect them with the Wind then or uses the Almighty to do that... Not like that's necessary when the inverted world slows them down enough to use deathdealing nerf.




Like that fodder is protecting them, dude got decked by someone fodder to naruto/sasuke, sasuke can teleblitz him, or they teleport their attacks to them. 


   Askin won't get the time to pull off his hax when naruto/sasuke are spamming large AOE attacks (PS chidori/TBBRS/CORS/kirin/TBB/PS blade/CT) too many techniques to mop the floor with bleach and call it a day.


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## Alita (Apr 2, 2018)

@iwandesu or @MusubiKazesaru can one of you guys close this thread? It's only gonna get worse if you don't.


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## Daio (Apr 2, 2018)

@Sablés @Source of Hate @lol 4th dimension reiatsu

Movie statement would actually put Seireitei at 1500+ km in diameter, same as Yoruichi's statement. Kubo also oversaw the movie and heard the dialogue from start to finish.

Just putting that out there.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Steven (Apr 2, 2018)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> She can't regenerate from the damage she takes or kill Ywach in any way, the diference in stats is small and the amount of offensive abilities closes the bridge.


Yhwach is 3 PT's or something.Kaguya is a legit Planetbuster with her Final Goudama.She seals Yhwach.

The A is a big NLF,except his reg ability


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 2, 2018)

LazyWaka said:


> Naruto's clones seem like a good counter to avoid Lillie's shots since he wont be able to tell them apart


Sasueks got the ability to clone himself as well now too 


1000s of narutos backed up by dozens of Sasukes...Poor bleach verse

Realistically sasuke should be capable of making several hundred as well considering part 1 naruto could do that and sasuke has half of hagormos chakra

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Revan Reborn (Apr 2, 2018)

If you guys want to argue this, take it to the Meta-battledome, and create a thread about it.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Apr 2, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> except I'm not wrong.


Yea okay, you keep telling yourself that buddy. Youve done such a great job of actually proving we are wrong


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## LazyWaka (Apr 2, 2018)

locking because this is going nowhere fast.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 3


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