# Usopp Vs Rob Lucci



## Blue Cheese (Jan 13, 2014)

Current Usopp vs EL Lucci

Distance:50m
Intel: manga knowledge
In character 
Location: Syrup Village

Scenario 2:  Both sides given full knowledge and 30mins prep time 


i feel usopp should be as strong or stronger than lucci sort of level but i find hard imagining him winning this. i think with prep time usopp got experience and weapons now to maybe win but if not I dunno. 

what do you guys think


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## Lawliet (Jan 13, 2014)

Usopp dies


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## Captain Altintop (Jan 13, 2014)

Usopp should be Pacifista level with his complete fighting style. Give him prep and he wins after a still though fight, mid-high diff.


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## Rob (Jan 13, 2014)

lol .................


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## Enel (Jan 13, 2014)

RobLucciRapes


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## punisher223 (Jan 13, 2014)

RobLucciRapes

Usopp's my favorite Straw Hat, but With prep the most I see Usopp pushing is the high end of Low diff or  the low end of mid diff. EOS Usopp may win but it depends on how strong he gets.


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## Kings Disposition (Jan 13, 2014)

Usopp losses without prep against a ruthless fighter like Lucci. His speed will be too troublesome and a single blow from him would be crippling. 

With prep/traps and full knowledge, I'd say he has a somewhat decent chance. A major problem I see in this situation though is that his plant traps seem to all be ground based, which means their effectiveness will be reduced on someone who's capable of going into the air and that'll definitely reduce his chances of winning.


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## Forcer (Jan 13, 2014)

Sanji beat a Pacifista with one move
So Usopp should beat one in like 20
Lucci loses to a Pacifista so Usopp beats him in 10 moves

_Im just joking..._


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## November (Jan 13, 2014)

Lucci rapes


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## Mr. Black Leg (Jan 13, 2014)

RobLucciRapes


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## Lance (Jan 13, 2014)

Usopp may have gotten stronger but he has shown no feats of getting faster. Meaning he can not keep up with Rob's speed. That speed of Rob will be hard to deal with. In all honesty I don't see Usopp lasting for very long.


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## Dunno (Jan 13, 2014)

So, post-TS M3 would one-shot Lucci but Usopp gets raped? I guess Usopp is less than fodder to his crewmates?


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## Coruscation (Jan 13, 2014)

Usopp loses against a fighter like Lucci if it's a head on brawl. Should have a fighting chance if he gets to utilize more of his arsenal. Lucci is still fast and resourceful enough that he'll be a real tough nut to crack even with Usopp's wide variety of powerful and useful moves.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Jan 13, 2014)

Ussop still lacks even the firepower to put down someone Lucci. He gets kicked to hell.





Dunno said:


> So, post-TS M3 would one-shot Lucci but Usopp gets raped? I guess Usopp is less than fodder to his crewmates?


Yes, he is. He can put up a fight against the weakling trio though.


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## punisher223 (Jan 13, 2014)

Dunno said:


> So, post-TS M3 would one-shot Lucci but Usopp gets raped? I guess Usopp is less than fodder to his crewmates?



 never knew people actually think Post -TS M3 "one-shots" Lucci Of course they win but to "one-shot" him. Differing opinions i guess.


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## Forcer (Jan 13, 2014)

punisher223 said:


> never knew people actually think Post -TS M3 "one-shots" Lucci Of course they win but to "one-shot" him. Differing opinions i guess.



Really? They say Sanji one shots end of Pre Skip Luffy, why wouldn't they thing M3 one shots Lucci too?


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## Lance (Jan 13, 2014)

Forcer said:


> Really? They say Sanji one shots end of Pre Skip Luffy, why wouldn't they thing M3 one shots Lucci too?



 First time me hearing this. Who said so? 
I don't think present Luffy can one shot end of Pre Skip Luffy, so forget about Sanji.


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## Dunno (Jan 13, 2014)

punisher223 said:


> never knew people actually think Post -TS M3 "one-shots" Lucci Of course they win but to "one-shot" him. Differing opinions i guess.



Everyone but me seems to be convinced that any post-TS M3 member would one-shot any pre-TS M3 member. It's ridiculous in my opinion, but that's what people seem to believe.


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## Forcer (Jan 13, 2014)

@just check the post time skip Sanji vs pre time skip Luffy thread



Dunno said:


> Everyone but me seems to be convinced that any post-TS M3 member would one-shot any pre-TS M3 member. It's ridiculous in my opinion, but that's what people seem to believe.



You are not nooooot alone brotheeeerr


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## Halcyon (Jan 13, 2014)

An M3 member has the capability of one shotting a Pacifista.

The entire crew had trouble with just one pre skip.

It's not a difficult leap to think they could destroy themselves from two years ago.

OT: As far as this match goes, I don't even think current Usopp could beat preskip Zoro, so Lucci is a given.


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## Soca (Jan 13, 2014)

Usopp uses sleep gas

gg Lucci.


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## Slenderman (Jan 13, 2014)

I want Ussop to win but Lucci is fast.  Lucci low-mid diff unfortunately. If it wasn't for speed Ussop should win but Ussop is a tactical fighter and doesn't use brute strength.


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## Rob (Jan 13, 2014)

I honestly agree with the M3 one-shotting being a bit absurd. 

Lucci is quite durable. 

I feel that people of his caliber could take one or two attacks of a high-tier fighter. 

Lucci won't last more than 3 hits though.


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## trance (Jan 13, 2014)

Dunno said:


> So, post-TS M3 would one-shot Lucci but Usopp gets raped? I guess Usopp is less than fodder to his crewmates?



Different kind of fighters and thus, different utilized fighting styles. The M3 deal with extreme straightforward power and speed with incredible amounts of superhuman endurance. A guy like Usopp is more about tactics, precision, and range with more human levels of endurance (in comparison).


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## Shanks (Jan 13, 2014)

Impact Wolf solo.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jan 13, 2014)

The problem here is speed. 

Make speed equal and i will say Usopp without a doubt.


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## Gervin (Jan 13, 2014)

Usopp has shown nothing to suggest that he can push Lucci in the slightest.  Lucci beats Usopp in strength, speed, technique, durability, and tactical awareness as well as having the benefit of a DF.  Once Usopp defeats anybody of note (Daruma certainly doesn't count) then maybe I'll reconsider, but as it is now it's 100/100 in favor of Lucci.


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## Rob (Jan 13, 2014)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> The problem here is speed.
> 
> Make speed equal and i will say Usopp without a doubt.



So Lucci is restricted to normal Human speed?  

I still see him out-tanking most of the shit in Usopp's arsenal.


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## Doma (Jan 13, 2014)

I think scen: 1 can go either way. But that's ignoring the state of mind they're put in because in-character Ussop is terrified of fucking fodder. Ussop definitely has the firepower to put down Lucci. The only issue is that he needs to pull off a good combo before Lucci closes the distance or he's in trouble. 

And as for the M3 one-shotting the pre-skip M3, they definitely can. It took pre-skip Luffy's Gigant Rifle to put down a malfunctioning one. Now considering Luffy can casually put out enough power to one-shot a fully functioning one. I just don't see how the pre-skip M3 don't get one-shotted.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jan 13, 2014)

RobLucciRapes said:


> So Lucci is restricted to normal Human speed?
> 
> I still see him out-tanking most of the shit in Usopp's arsenal.



Usopp is normal human speed?

Even back in East blue he was fast come on bro.


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## Rob (Jan 13, 2014)

^
This must be for Lucci's sake, then


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## tanman (Jan 13, 2014)

The people talking about low diff are making my head hurt.
How could that make any sense at all.


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## Rob (Jan 13, 2014)

It just does tanman 

It just does


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## Auzzie93 (Jan 14, 2014)

Sabo said:


> Impact Wolf solo.



IMO, Usopp hasn't shown anything that can even break Lucci's Tekai. 

this is low diff for Lucci. Geppo, then shigan. GG


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## Bitty (Jan 14, 2014)

RobLucciRapes said:


> I honestly agree with the M3 one-shotting being a bit absurd.
> 
> Lucci is quite durable.
> 
> ...



The m3 1-shotted a PX with low end attacks. Luffy casually 1-shotted MP Chopper. 
Sanji pulled out DJ & 2-shotted Jyabaru....burning through his tekkai. & that someone in the same tier as him.

If current Sanji can send Vergo flying, crashing though a wall & bloodying his face.
LUCCI EATS DAT HAM.

Any m3 member fighting seriously would 1 shot  Lucci, current Usopp, & their pre-skip versions, simultaneously.


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## Auzzie93 (Jan 14, 2014)

Bitty said:


> The m3 1-shotted a PX with low end attacks. Luffy casually 1-shotted MP Chopper.
> Sanji pulled out DJ & 2-shotted Jyabaru....burning through his tekkai. & that someone in the same tier as him.
> 
> If current Sanji can send Vergo flying, crashing though a wall & bloodying his face.
> ...



Lets think this logically, pre-ts Luffy wasn't able to break Lucci's tekkai without going Gear2/Gear3 and he one shotted pre-ts Usopp. 

Preskip Luffy barely beat Lucci, with extreme diff (unable to move afterwards). IMO Usopp isn't even in the same league as preskip Luffy. Pre-ts Luffy was able to clash with VA level fighters and beat them; Magellan, Crocodile, Moria etc

I don't even see Usopp at this point in the manga at Pre-ts Zoro level. Maybe later on, but he still pretty much fodder to New World pirates.

RobLucciRapes


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## Rob (Jan 14, 2014)

I don't see why all of Luffy's landed attacks, during his fight with Lucci,  shouldn't amount to 1-3 Regular High-Tier attacks.

Like I said, Lucci isn't surviving much more, but I feel confident in giving him at least that much. 

Hell, Luffy survived Mihawks slashes, And Kizaru's kick.


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## Bitty (Jan 14, 2014)

Auzzie93 said:


> Lets think this logically, pre-ts Luffy wasn't able to break Lucci's tekkai without going Gear2/Gear3 and he one shotted pre-ts Usopp.
> 
> Preskip Luffy barely beat Lucci, with extreme diff (unable to move afterwards). IMO Usopp isn't even in the same league as preskip Luffy. Pre-ts Luffy was able to clash with VA level fighters and beat them; Magellan, Crocodile, Moria etc
> 
> ...




when did i say anything about Usopp defeating Lucci? lol

ummm & pre-skip Luffy never defeated a vice admiral level fighter. Magellan handily defeated him. He only defeated Croc & Moriah through various circumstances. He needed his entire crew & an extreme extreme power-up not even part of his actual abilities to stand a chance against Moriah.


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## Suzumebachi (Jan 14, 2014)

Lucci has full knowledge of Usopp, and Lucci is very very smart. If he knows every trick Usopp has, he will win quite handily.


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## Bitty (Jan 14, 2014)

RobLucciRapes said:


> I don't see why all of Luffy's landed attacks, during his fight with Lucci,  shouldn't amount to 1-3 Regular High-Tier attacks.
> 
> Like I said, Lucci isn't surviving much more, but I feel confident in giving him at least that much.
> 
> Hell, Luffy survived Mihawks slashes, And Kizaru's kick.



a PX can take a bite from Zoan Drake & multiple punches from Buff Urouge no prob.
It took taking its own lazer, a DJ, Asura, & giant Rifle while malfunctioning to take it down. Not to mention the attacks it took earlier. 
The m3 can dish out damage far far far greater than any of that shown, casually. 

Lucci doesn't have plot-shield. You're reaching if you're using Luffy's MF portrayal as an argument to support Lucci. 

If Vergo & Lucci seriously clash....he's getting 1-shotted.


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## Mike S (Jan 14, 2014)

The M3 are definitely capable of one-shotting Pre-skip Lucci.


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## Halcyon (Jan 14, 2014)

RobLucciRapes said:


> I honestly agree with the M3 one-shotting being a bit absurd.
> 
> Lucci is quite durable.
> 
> ...





As Bitty said, each member of the M3 as of current have enough power to casually one shot a Pacifista without a named attack.

Lucci eats it fast.


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## tanman (Jan 14, 2014)

Yep. Sanji can oneshot EL Lucci with a nameless attack. I feel pretty comfortable with saying that. It might be a tough pill to swallow, but that's the truth. M3 stomps. Franky low diffs. Brooke and Robin mid diff. Chopper high/very high diffs. Nami and Usopp loose with very high difficulty. That's how I see it.

I consider Lucci to be one the same level as the less successful New Worlders like Baby 5.


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## Captain Altintop (Jan 14, 2014)

Na, I think: Franky >>> Buffalo >= Baby 5 > Pacifista >= Usopp > Lucci

I doubt DD would put in Executives who can't even beat a Pacifista.

High diff seems fine for Usopp.


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## Rob (Jan 14, 2014)

I'm not saying that Lucci should be able to lolTank Current Asura, DJ, or G3 or some shit. 

I'm just saying that it seems odd for someone like him to get one-shotted by a regular and  un-named attack. 

Again, I don't see why all of Luffy's attacks that he landed on Lucci wouldn't equal 1 or so weak un-named attacks from a High Tier fighter. 

Pre-G2 Gatling, Lucci was still up and ready to fight. He didn't even seem close to being on the brink. 
G2GG was just so powerful, that it took everything out of Lucci (Never mind the fact that his Over-confident ass tried to tank it )

And Pacifista's  People here say that they are High-Tier. No. If anything, they are slightly stronger than EL Lucci, seeing as Pre-Skip Luffy could arguably beat one with difficulty. 

And Lucci should be above the likes of Buffalo and Baby 5.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jan 14, 2014)

Ok fine if Luffy uses a Un-named non-haki punch to Luccis chest while Lucci is using his strongest tekkei. I guess he can get back up. 

But anything Pistol level and above=Dead cat.


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## Rob (Jan 14, 2014)

People like Caesar must have some god-like durability then.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jan 14, 2014)

RobLucciRapes said:


> People like Caesar must have some god-like durability then.



He took hits that could destroy a PX(not a opinion by the way Caesar took G2+haki attacks which the PX could not). 

So yea he does have some pretty good endurance and durability for a scientist logia anyway.


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## Bitty (Jan 14, 2014)

RobLucciRapes said:


> People like Caesar must have some god-like durability then.



no. just better than pre-skip mid tier characters.


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## Rob (Jan 14, 2014)

So Lucci vs. Tangible Caesar isn't even up for debate then


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jan 14, 2014)

RobLucciRapes said:


> So Lucci vs. Tangible Caesar isn't even up for debate then



Caesar stomps. 

He has enough attack power to do massive damage to Rob, he also has a lot of hax that i don't need to mention. 

He is also not a slow poke believe it or not. Lucci is not going to LOL Shigan him in the throat thats for sure.


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## Rob (Jan 14, 2014)

IIRC, Gastille was pretty powerful. Some Radical Beam shit.


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## tanman (Jan 14, 2014)

Lucci not being horribly murdered by a tangible Ceaser. 
That's a good one, Rob. Have you considered going into comedy?

Lucci was a very big deal in Paradise. But this is literally a new world. Most of the people considered the scum of the New World would very likely take down Lucci. 

As for people talking about Tekkai and Lucci's speed, I think the scaling up of raw power, durability, and speed is severely underestimated if people think that Usopp's attacks will all be shielded by Tekkai or that Lucci will simply blitz.

@Captain Altintop
I would say that Lucci is reasonably close to a Pacifista in power. And I would agree that Baby 5 or Buffalo would likely beat one with high difficulty. Ultimately, however, I would put them all on the same level.


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## Rob (Jan 14, 2014)

tanman said:


> Lucci not being horribly murdered by a tangible Ceaser.
> That's a good one, Rob. Have you considered going into comedy?



Are you high? 

When did I state that Lucci could put up a fight against Caesar/


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## Slenderman (Jan 14, 2014)

Rob defending his man Lucci.  CC would touch Rob in places he doesn't want to be touched at.


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## tanman (Jan 14, 2014)

RobLucciRapes said:


> Are you high?
> 
> When did I state that Lucci could put up a fight against Caesar/



Huh?



RobLucciRapes said:


> So Lucci vs. Tangible Caesar isn't even up for debate then



I was responding to this.


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## Rob (Jan 14, 2014)

It seemed as if you thought that I thought that Lucci had a chance.


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## Gulbana (Jan 16, 2014)

Post-Dressrosa Usopp wins but current one loses.


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## Rob (Jan 16, 2014)

^Thanks Oda.


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## Magician (Jan 16, 2014)

Rob Lucci soloes the world all at once.  Mid diff.


*Spoiler*: __


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## Enclave (Jan 16, 2014)

I think people are underestimating Usopp right now.  I'm fairly confident that current Usopp would beat Lucci.  However we can't say for sure until we actually see Usopp in a serious fight, hasn't happened yet post-skip though.


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## Etherborn (Jan 16, 2014)

Lucci's badassary solos.


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## Virus (Jan 18, 2014)

Halcyon said:


> An M3 member has the capability of one shotting a Pacifista.
> 
> The entire crew had trouble with just one pre skip.
> 
> ...



Curent Usopp would wreck pre-timeskip Zolo. Sorry to hurt your feelings bro!

Usopp wins against Lucci. Oda actually foreshadowed it back in EL when Usopp stepped up and said to the cat Lucci to fight him. Usopp also told Lucci that he would get blow away. We also know that all of Usopp lies have become true by now (almost all). This means that Usopp can defeat Lucci.

Usopp will be the one surpassing Yasopp, opponents like Lucci will be a piss in the ocean for Usopp to handle.


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## Rob (Jan 18, 2014)

Usopp beating Pre-Skip M3-level fighters


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## Halcyon (Jan 18, 2014)

Virus said:


> Curent Usopp would wreck pre-timeskip Zolo. Sorry to hurt your feelings bro!


Sorry but no. Usopp hasn't demonstrated any ability to deal with someone as fast as pre TS Zoro since the skip, or at any point during the manga for that matter. Pre skip M3 individually beat him handily.



> Usopp wins against Lucci. Oda actually foreshadowed it back in EL when Usopp stepped up and said to the cat Lucci to fight him. Usopp also told Lucci that he would get blow away. We also know that all of Usopp lies have become true by now (almost all). This means that Usopp can defeat Lucci.


What kind of bullshit argument is this? 
You honestly think Lucci wouldn't have blitzfucked Usopp in an instant if he were serious? Because he would have. Lucci could have taken down both Sanji and Zoro, who are leagues above Usopp. For God's sake, Jyabura took down Usopp without effort. Ranged fighters don't deal well with fast opponents who can deal large amounts of damage.



> Usopp will be the one surpassing Yasopp, opponents like Lucci will be a piss in the ocean for Usopp to handle.


>Implying Yasopp is an incredible end game goal.


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## Zorofangirl24 (Jan 18, 2014)

A pussy with a slingshot won't faze Lucci 
Usopp would win iif only he has knowledge, but Lucci also has knowledge to counter Usopp's tricks.
Lucci rips off Usopps ugly nose


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## Captain Altintop (Jan 19, 2014)

Usopp can beat Lucci, so what's the problem with that? 

Lucci is nothing more than an annoyance but no serious threat for the NW.

Mate, supernova level is SHIT compared to the NW, so even the weakest important char like Usopp should have at least reached that level, otherwise they should stop traveling through the NW.


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## Shinthia (Jan 19, 2014)

Just look at my Sig and be very scared


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## Vengeance (Jan 19, 2014)

Lucci would still destroy Usopp...



Virus said:


> Curent Usopp would wreck pre-timeskip Zolo. Sorry to hurt your feelings bro!
> 
> Usopp wins against Lucci. Oda actually foreshadowed it back in EL when Usopp stepped up and said to the cat Lucci to fight him. Usopp also told Lucci that he would get blow away. We also know that all of Usopp lies have become true by now (almost all). This means that Usopp can defeat Lucci.
> 
> Usopp will be the one surpassing Yasopp, opponents like Lucci will be a piss in the ocean for Usopp to handle.


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## RF (Jan 19, 2014)

> >Implying Yasopp is an incredible end game goal.



What?


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## Virus (Jan 19, 2014)

Halcyon said:


> Sorry but no. Usopp hasn't demonstrated any ability to deal with someone as fast as pre TS Zoro since the skip, or at any point during the manga for that matter. Pre skip M3 individually beat him handily.



Nope! You will see when Usopp fights in this arc. 
Current Usopp>>pre timeskip zoro imo. 

And Yasopp is probably top 4 in shanks crew so Usopp surpassing yasopp does imply a lot. Right now i would say that Yasopp is at least low top tier!


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## Halcyon (Jan 19, 2014)

Virus said:


> Nope! You will see when Usopp fights in this arc.
> Current Usopp>>pre timeskip zoro imo.


As of now, there is nothing to suggest he could. He may have the DC, but he doesn't have the reaction time or the movement speed.



> And Yasopp is probably top 4 in shanks crew so Usopp surpassing yasopp does imply a lot. Right now i would say that Yasopp is at least low top tier!


My guess is high end of high tier. Implying that all of the SHs will be top tier by the end of the series is a bit ridiculous.



Sakazuki said:


> What?


I think any one of the current M3 could take him down. There's no way he's Vista level in my opinion.


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## Orca (Jan 19, 2014)

> I think any one of the current M3 could take him down. There's no way he's Vista level in my opinion.



Luffy's 2nd strongest fighter can beat shanks' 2nd/3rd strongest?


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## Reekee (Jan 19, 2014)

Usopp loses, but gives Lucci high difficulty at least.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Jan 19, 2014)

Usopp loses but gives Rob Lucci high difficulty, because Usopp is faster and now he has some hell of things to try and is probably faster(Reaction and shooting) .


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## Vengeance (Jan 19, 2014)

EoS Usopp a Top Tier?


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## tanman (Jan 19, 2014)

RobLucciRapes said:


> Usopp beating Pre-Skip M3-level fighters



Is that actually strange to you? Or are you joking again? I really can't tell.
Usopp beating pre-skip M3 level characters shouldn't be strange at all considering he at his current his level is able to survive just fine battling pirates in the New World. Something that people beneath the pre-skip M3 (by any significant margin) clearly wouldn't be able to do.


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## Shinthia (Jan 19, 2014)

Usopp should be stronger than any preTS M3 . He has not shown anything yet ,so wait till Usopp go all out.


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## Halcyon (Jan 19, 2014)

tanman said:


> Is that actually strange to you? Or are you joking again? I really can't tell.
> Usopp beating pre-skip M3 level characters shouldn't be strange at all considering he at his current his level is able to survive just fine battling pirates in the New World. Something that people beneath the pre-skip M3 (by any significant margin) clearly wouldn't be able to do.


The only person he's faced by himself since the skip was that weird and weak fishman.
Then he shot at people who were running away with Nami's help.
Then he beat a fish.

His feats just aren't up to snuff with preskip M3. Zoro, the slowest of the three, was casually bullet-timing on SA at point blank range. Usopp hasn't shown the same speed or reflexes. Which is a problem, because Lucci is a lot faster than preskip Zoro. Like I said before, his destructive capacity is high enough to deal with them, but he has to hit them. That's where I see the problem.



Luffee said:


> Luffy's 2nd strongest fighter can beat shanks' 2nd/3rd strongest?


Wot **


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## Rob (Jan 19, 2014)

Captain Altintop said:


> Usopp can beat Lucci, so what's the problem with that?
> 
> Lucci is nothing more than an annoyance but no serious threat for the NW.
> 
> Mate, supernova level is SHIT compared to the NW, so even the weakest important char like Usopp should have at least reached that level, otherwise they should stop traveling through the NW.



Altintop what the fuck...


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## Virus (Jan 19, 2014)

Lionel Messi said:


> *Usopp should be stronger than any preTS M3 *. He has not shown anything yet ,so wait till Usopp go all out.



Yes! Just because Usopp hasn't shown anything doesn't mean he hasn't surpassed them.


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## Rob (Jan 19, 2014)

SO LET'S JUST MAKE SHIT UP AND ASSUME!


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## Kanki (Jan 19, 2014)

Lucci rapes Usopp....
Shigan to the heart.


Then Rob wakes up to find Lucci being eaten by a fly trap.


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## Slenderman (Jan 19, 2014)

^ Took me a second to figure out the joke. Nice one.


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## Rob (Jan 19, 2014)

No. Not nice one. 

Very lame. 

Bad KIG.


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## tanman (Jan 19, 2014)

Halcyon said:


> The only person he's faced by himself since the skip was that weird and weak fishman.
> Then he shot at people who were running away with Nami's help.
> Then he beat a fish.
> 
> His feats just aren't up to snuff with preskip M3.



Well, you're clearly using language to downplay what Usopp has done. Considering "people" here means Donquixote Executives. And "shot at" here means K.O.ed. And "fish" means 25 meter tall monster. And "weird and weak fishman" means roid raging New Fishman Pirates Officer likely capable of giving a decent fight to the pre-skip M3 considering Hody would have easily taken down the entire pre-skip crew. It's fair to say that your language is absolutely bleeding with downplay.

But more importantly, I don't understand how the your conclusion follows considering the feats you list.
The pre-skip M3 is likely faster but certainly not so much faster that they can avoid every attack and delaying tactic. That's even true for pre-skip Usopp. And it's 10x as true for post-skip Usopp who has access to plants of seemingly endless utility, while possessing increased evasive abilities to deal with the likes of the above opponents.


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## Shanks (Jan 19, 2014)

I agree with everyone who says usob wins.


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## Halcyon (Jan 19, 2014)

tanman said:


> Well, you're clearly using language to downplay what Usopp has done. Considering "people" here means Donquixote Executives. And "shot at" here means K.O.ed. And "fish" means 25 meter tall monster. And "weird and weak fishman" means roid raging New Fishman Pirates Officer likely capable of giving a decent fight to the pre-skip M3 considering Hody would have easily taken down the entire pre-skip crew. It's fair to say that your language is absolutely bleeding with downplay.
> 
> But more importantly, I don't understand how the your conclusion follows considering the feats you list.
> The pre-skip M3 is likely faster but certainly not so much faster that they can avoid every attack and delaying tactic. That's even true for pre-skip Usopp. And it's 10x as true for post-skip Usopp who has access to plants of seemingly endless utility, while possessing increased evasive abilities to deal with the likes of the above opponents.


Those DD execs had already been beaten and were running away.
The fish was no bigger than the sea kings that the preskip M3 were decimating without effort for the entirety of the first half. Though, I do agree the fishman could have given a member of the preskip M3 a decent fight.

Usopp's at his deadliest when he has prep. However, without it I don't see him taking down any of the preskip M3. I think your downplaying the speed of the preskip M3 if you think Usopp isn't that much slower, because it would appear he is. I gave an example for Zoro, but Sanji is faster than him and G2 Luffy is far faster, and that's around how fast Usopp's opponent is in this match. Also, you have to factor in reaction time which is one of the best attributes the M3 have.

I've stated before that Usopp's guns are big enough to take them down without a doubt, but their speed is the issue as well as their reaction time.


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## tanman (Jan 20, 2014)

Halcyon said:


> Those DD execs had already been beaten and were running away.
> The fish was no bigger than the sea kings that the preskip M3 were decimating without effort for the entirety of the first half. Though, I do agree the fishman could have given a member of the preskip M3 a decent fight.



Originally, you used vagueness to build a case. I used preciseness to dismiss it. Now you're using additional facts to counter that. Those facts are legitimate but they don't really make the original statements any less dismissed if that matters to you.

Also, pre-skip M3 defeating similarly sized beasts just strengthens the parallels between the old Monster Trio and the new Weak Trio. But of course size is irrelevant in actual strength, considering there were similarly sized beasts stronger than Luffy on that island. What is relevant to strength is the fact this particular beast is notorious in the New World.



Halcyon said:


> Usopp's at his deadliest when he has prep. However, without it I don't see him taking down any of the preskip M3. I think your downplaying the speed of the preskip M3 if you think Usopp isn't that much slower, because it would appear he is. I gave an example for Zoro, but Sanji is faster than him and G2 Luffy is far faster, and that's around how fast Usopp's opponent is in this match. Also, you have to factor in reaction time which is one of the best attributes the M3 have.
> 
> I've stated before that Usopp's guns are big enough to take them down without a doubt, but their speed is the issue as well as their reaction time.



The way I see it, Daruma is easily a bullet timer who on drugs could preform similarly to pre-skip M3 members speed wise (he certainly wouldn't be challenged in speed the pre-skip Middle Trio). And Usopp was perfectly capable of dealing with that. He doesn't need to be faster than his opponent to win, but in this case an early rush with Soru/Shigan would probably tip the scales against him. However, that's not so much because of Lucci's speed, but his technique being so brutal.

Last statement is fair. I'm also of the opinion that Lucci beats Usopp more times than not. However, I think it's a very difficult match up.

I think that
Current Chopper ~ Pre-Skip Luffy
Current Nami ~ Pre-Skip Zoro ~ Rob Lucci
Current Usopp ~ Sanji ~ Zombie Ryuma
Nami, I know, is the most controversial, but I think her physical abilities are hugely underestimated by the majority of this forum. Effectively, she's Usopp with better stats in every category except durability and range.


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## Halcyon (Jan 20, 2014)

tanman said:


> Originally, you used vagueness to build a case. I used preciseness to dismiss it. Now you're using additional facts to counter that. Those facts are legitimate but they don't really make the original statements any less dismissed if that matters to you.


I get your meaning.



> Also, pre-skip M3 defeating similarly sized beasts just strengthens the parallels between the old Monster Trio and the new Weak Trio. But of course size is irrelevant in actual strength, considering there were similarly sized beasts stronger than Luffy on that island. What is relevant to strength is the fact this particular beast is notorious in the New World.


Well, the key there was without effort.  However, I acknowledge that I downplayed the strength of the fish. Though this doesn't change my view on the pre skip M3 not having difficulty with that particular fish either, but that's my opinion.



> The way I see it, Daruma is easily a bullet timer who on drugs could perform similarly to pre-skip M3 members speed wise (he certainly wouldn't be challenged in speed the pre-skip Middle Trio). And Usopp was perfectly capable of dealing with that. He doesn't need to be faster than his opponent to win, but in this case an early rush with Soru/Shigan would probably tip the scales against him. However, that's not so much because of Lucci's speed, but his technique being so brutal.


To clarify, there isn't really a pre skip M3 speed. I was using Zoro as the low end and an example because he was a casual bullet timer. However, Sanji is faster than that and Luffy is much faster than that is my point. I don't believe drugged up Daruma could come close to matching speed with G2 Luffy, but he could probably do so with Zoro.



> Last statement is fair. I'm also of the opinion that Lucci beats Usopp more times than not. However, I think it's a very difficult match up.
> 
> I think that
> Current Chopper ~ Pre-Skip Luffy
> ...


That's fine, I respect that. Though I do believe you're selling Sanji a bit short with Ryuuma. The CP9 M3 should have been comfortably above Ryuuma. Sanji should be somewhere between Lucci and Kaku.


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## tanman (Jan 20, 2014)

You're right about Ryuma. I couldn't think of a third person, but in retrospect that was dumb to put him. There just isn't really a stronger third person I can think of that clearly fits into that between Lucci and Kaku range.


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## TheWiggian (Jan 20, 2014)

i think that even EoS Usopp couldnt do shit to lucci


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## Shinthia (Jan 20, 2014)

I dont care about ur opinion


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## Slenderman (Jan 20, 2014)

^ You just pwned him harder than pwngoat


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## Kuro Ashi (Jan 31, 2014)

Rob Lucci gets in Ussop's face and scares him to death.


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