# Hebi Sasuke vs Tsunade



## Fragile (Feb 1, 2013)

Location: Uchiha hideout

Distance: 30 meters

Knowledge: Reputation

Mindset: IC

Restrictions: Kirin and Yamata no Orochi


----------



## SoleAccord (Feb 1, 2013)

You're restricting Hebi Sasuke's most powerful attack but not Byakugou?


----------



## raizen28 (Feb 1, 2013)

Its official then..................


----------



## Fragile (Feb 1, 2013)

Why not? If I don't, it'll make this one sided seeing as how Kirin is a one shot technique. If I restrict Byakugo, then I should also restrict Oral Rebirth. But as the thread creator, I don't wish to do that.


----------



## SoleAccord (Feb 1, 2013)

Letting Tsunade keep the ability that lets her move with two Susano'o blades impaled clean through her body isn't already one-sided, as well as her summon? You must not have a lot of confidence in her.

Let her keep Creation Rebirth and give Sasuke full control of Manda, then it's an even fight.


----------



## Rocky (Feb 1, 2013)

Hebi Sasuke takes this, rather easily imo. 

Tsunade first in foremost is an up close kind of fighter. Against the advanced precognition of the Sharingan, Tsunade will be hard pressed to actually touch the Sauce. I'm aware that Sasuke cannot block her punches, but with his Katana, he can sever her limbs with _counter-attacks._

When we talk the range game, Sasuke has _brutal_ Ration Jutsu. Tsunade's Byakugo can handle healing the damage, but the extra _perk_ Ration Ninjutsu carry could spell defeat for Gondaime. Upon seeing Tsunade heal her wounds from Eisō, Sasuke would most likely target something a little more vital, like say, her head. Paralysis would give him a perfect opening to do such. 

The Juin, Snake techniques, Katon Ninjutsu, & Genjutsu just give Sasuke other options. All the extra fluff just cements his victory here. He doesn't really need much to deal with Tsunade's arsenal. That's because all Tsunade has are close range attacks. She's better off just sticking to her fists, so mentioning any of her various medical techniques is rather pointless. 

As for Katsuyu, simple....Manda. Sasuke also has shown us he knows the method to _controlling_ beasts & summons. Katsuyu is just a big target for Sasuke to....take control of. It's possible Tsunade could free her slug of the illusion, but that's an opening for Sasuke to get close.


----------



## SoleAccord (Feb 1, 2013)

Damn it Rocky I was trying to make a point. I mean Sasuke still wins this, but damn it.

Sharingan precognition and speed allow Sasuke the mobility and evasion to avoid all her linear blows and the AOE will not halt him in the slightest. With Sharingan monitoring her chakra levels, if she does use Creation Rebirth and Byakugou, and if she boasts she can't die at the cost of her chakra, he can either wait it out or go for everything above the neck, but has no NEED to attack while she wastes her chakra. 

Katsuyu in an enclosed space equals severe dehydration and burns via powerful Katon's Sasuke can make use of. Sharingan Genjutsu can work, optionally, but to prevent Sasuke from using it again and again Tsunade needs to stay near her. If she wants to use acid in a small space, Sasuke can slice himself an opening to the roof or genjutsu control Manda and order him to take Katsuyu on and consume her, much like he planned to do in their first encounter.

Nagashi, Senbon, Eiso, makes Sasuke able to fight at mid-range with minimal danger while keeping Tsunade both on the move and wary of the attacks he can employ. I'm not even going to bring CS2 into the matter since it never really did anything for me. Increased chakra levels do help him out though. So while Tsunade is a tough bitch, Sasuke has been hunting bigger game than her since Deidara.

Victor - *Hebi Sasuke, Moderate difficulty*.


----------



## Fragile (Feb 1, 2013)

SoleAccord said:


> Letting Tsunade keep the ability that lets her move with two Susano'o blades impaled clean through her body isn't already one-sided, as well as her summon? You must not have a lot of confidence in her.
> 
> Let her keep Creation Rebirth and give Sasuke full control of Manda, then it's an even fight.



Do you not have enough confidence on Sasuke? Even though I consider him to be on the same tier as with Tsunade, I still think he's more powerful. He's much faster and has the Sharingan which a lot of posters in this section has high regard on. Moreso, he even has Genjutsu and Orochimaru inherited powers like snake summons to serve as meat shields/ *Manda*/ Oral Rebirth, Cursed seal, Katons, Chidori variants, etc ... Unless you really believe that Kirin is the _only_ thing that can kill Tsunade which I don't believe many people in this section might share the same opinion. 

*EDIT:* Oh wait, seems like there is no need to un-restrict Kirin after all.


----------



## SoleAccord (Feb 1, 2013)

Fragile said:


> Do you not have enough confidence on Sasuke?



You'd be surprised to know that I have more than enough, but you only restricted him and nothing for Tsunade. That says something.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Feb 1, 2013)

While Taka is an idiot who will likely sword blitz and die in a trade, Hebi is intelligent, and will keep his distance, taking off limbs with eiso, and abusing his speed and range to keep safe from Tsunade.  Obviously she'll regrow them, but that should take a bit of chakra, and Sasuke, with CS2 to back him up, is no slouch in that area himself.  With careful fighting, he should outlast her and win more often than not.

I didn't really factor Katsuya at all, though.  But Sasuke has Manda to counter that.


----------



## Fragile (Feb 1, 2013)

SoleAccord, because I don't believe it's no longer a match if I don't restrict Kirin. Not restricting it means Tsunade loses. And I don't believe I need to unrestrict Kirin anymore since you yourself have posted that Sasuke still wins this without it.


----------



## SoleAccord (Feb 1, 2013)

Fragile said:


> SoleAccord, because I don't believe it's no longer a match if I don't restrict Kirin. Not restricting it means Tsunade loses. And I don't believe I need to unrestrict Kirin anymore since you yourself have posted that Sasuke still wins this without it.



You'd be surprised how many people are willing to say it is in character for Tsunade to summon Katsuyu from the get-go and hide in her throughout the match. Match that with the fact she's never been shown wounded on panel, therefore to everyone else she is invulnerable to everything anyone can do. 

You would be very ...very surprised.


----------



## Fragile (Feb 1, 2013)

^ Ohhhh, interesting.


----------



## Ersa (Feb 1, 2013)

Katsuyu can be controlled via genjutsu, Manda who was canoncially the strongest of the 3 was controlled by Sasuke. He can do the same here.

Kirin is not needed, Sasuke is already faster via feats and the DB and if you factor Sharingan and CS2 she is not landing a hit on him. In the event she manages to hit him, he has Oral Rebirth.

Tsunade has no knowledge on Chidori Nagashi, she goes straight in and gets hit by that followed by Chidori Eiso through the head. Byakugou is a last resort and she won't use it unless pushed. By then it is too late.

Hebi Sasuke low difficulty, he's a bad matchup for her.


----------



## Doge (Feb 1, 2013)

Rasant said:


> Katsuyu can be controlled via genjutsu, Manda who was canoncially the strongest of the 3 was controlled by Sasuke. He can do the same here.
> 
> Kirin is not needed, Sasuke is already faster via feats and the DB and if you factor Sharingan and CS2 she is not landing a hit on him. In the event she manages to hit him, he has Oral Rebirth.
> 
> ...



Basically this, Sasuke counters every aspect of Tsunade.  Katsuya gets hypnotized, Sharingan pre-cog deals with taijutsu, and she has no answer to Sasuke's ability to sever limbs.


----------



## Mercurial (Feb 2, 2013)

Sasuke wins fairly easily with far better speed and combat skills,Sharingan precognition,and Chidori and Chidori variants to cut limbs and bisect her head


----------



## Stermor (Feb 2, 2013)

uhm tsunade could hit madara.. what chance does hebi sasuke have of surviving an taijutsu assualt if madara had problems with it.. 

especially since sasuke has no way of stopping tsunade.. she can literly walk through his attacks.. punch him in the face and the upper body would be destroyed..


----------



## Mercurial (Feb 2, 2013)

Stermor said:


> uhm tsunade could hit madara.. what chance does hebi sasuke have of surviving an taijutsu assualt if madara had problems with it..
> 
> especially since sasuke has no way of stopping tsunade.. she can literly walk through his attacks.. punch him in the face and the upper body would be destroyed..



Tsunade could hit Madara because he stood watching her without moving with Susanoo,the first time,and the second time he made her hitting on purpouse,that was his tactic with Mokuton Bunshin

Madara reacted fairly well to RnY lv 2 Ei and KCM Naruto,he should have had problems with Tsunade!? c'mon 

Sasuke is far faster than Tsunade and has Sharingan precognition,he speedblitzes and cuts her head with Chidori or Raiton sword


----------



## Ghost (Feb 2, 2013)

What happens if Tsunade tries to hide in Katsuyu:


----------



## Orochimaru800 (Feb 2, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> While Taka is an idiot who will likely sword blitz and die in a trade, Hebi is intelligent, and will keep his distance, taking off limbs with eiso, and abusing his speed and range to keep safe from Tsunade.  Obviously she'll regrow them, but that should take a bit of chakra, and Sasuke, with CS2 to back him up, is no slouch in that area himself.  With careful fighting, he should outlast her and win more often than not.
> 
> I didn't really factor Katsuya at all, though.  But Sasuke has Manda to counter that.



Taka Sasuke is an idiot who *spams MS techniques like amaterasu and susanoo, *despite the cost of  ms tech's. Unless you are referring to early taka Sasuke(IE the one who fought Bee), MS Sasuke would beat Tsunade far more than Hebi.


----------



## Seiji (Feb 2, 2013)

C'mon guys. Having a poor demeanor/attitude isn't the same as being an idiot. If it is, would you still consider figuring out how Izanagi works on first exposure as idiocy? Don't think so.


----------



## Doge (Feb 2, 2013)

egressmadara said:


> Tsunade's going to pummel him.



How does she even hope to lay a finger on him with Sharingan pre-cog?


----------



## Thunder (Feb 2, 2013)

Well, it's a bit ridiculous to suggest that Sasuke would remain untouched throughout the _entire_ match verses a Kage-level opponent; there would have to be a massive difference between them power-wise for the match to unfold that way. Sasuke's going to get hit by something eventually, whether it's a punch or acid. 

Keep the location in mind as well. Tsunade can use it to her advantage.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Feb 2, 2013)

Rasant said:


> Katsuyu can be controlled via genjutsu, Manda who was canoncially the strongest of the 3 was controlled by Sasuke. He can do the same here.
> 
> Kirin is not needed, Sasuke is already faster via feats and the DB and if you factor Sharingan and CS2 she is not landing a hit on him. In the event she manages to hit him, he has Oral Rebirth.
> 
> ...



Tsunade can channel her chakra through Katsuya, so they can partner break each other instantly.



Orochimaru800 said:


> Taka Sasuke is an idiot who *spams MS techniques like amaterasu and susanoo, *despite the cost of  ms tech's. Unless you are referring to early taka Sasuke(IE the one who fought Bee), MS Sasuke would beat Tsunade far more than Hebi.



I was assuming with MS restricted, because Ameterasu will burn Tsunade until she runs out of chakra to regenerate, and like you said he spams it.

So with MS restricted, the biggest reason Taka would lose is because he's an idiot, while Hebi fights more intelligently.



Thunder said:


> Well, it's a bit ridiculous to suggest that Sasuke would remain untouched throughout the _entire_ match verses a Kage-level opponent; there would have to be a massive difference between them power-wise for the match to unfold that way. Sasuke's going to get hit by something eventually, whether it's a punch or acid.
> 
> Keep the location in mind as well. Tsunade can use it to her advantage.



While I agree, a cautious Hebi will stave off those hits for a long time, and can come back from one or two hits with oral rebirth.  So it's like Sasuke is fighting Tsunade with three lives.


----------



## Thunder (Feb 2, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> While I agree, a cautious Hebi will stave off those hits for a long time, and can come back from one or two hits with oral rebirth.  So it's like Sasuke is fighting Tsunade with three lives.



Hebi Sasuke can definitely _survive_ a few hits, sure. I'm only disputing kresh's claim there: that Hebi Sasuke will avoid everything Tsunade throws at him because of "Sharingan pre-cog".


----------



## Orochimaru800 (Feb 2, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> I was assuming with MS restricted, because Ameterasu will burn Tsunade until she runs out of chakra to regenerate, and like you said he spams it.
> 
> So with MS restricted, the biggest reason Taka would lose is because he's an idiot, while Hebi fights more intelligently.



Ah okay, got it.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Feb 2, 2013)

Thunder said:


> Hebi Sasuke can definitely _survive_ a few hits, sure. I'm only disputing kresh's claim there: that Hebi Sasuke will avoid everything Tsunade throws at him because of "Sharingan pre-cog".



Oh, that I support.  Sasuke isn't the god of evasion, and any character who attacks risks counter attack.  If he's not playing it very carefully, he's going to get tagged sooner, rather than later.


----------



## PDQ (Feb 2, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> any character who attacks risks counter attack


I wish more people would realize this.  Sensing can't determine the future, they can sense the opponent's intentions, but against any decent opponent, the moment they start to counter-attack, their own body starts moving(they draw their arm back, shift their body weight) which can be read and count-counter-attacked as well.  It works well against guys like preskip Naruto who wasn't particularly good at Taijutsu, so even when his opponent counterattacks, he has no ability to read movements to do anything about it.  Tsunade is a different beast altogether.  Sharingan doesn't make it impossible to be hit, despite what many would have you think.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Feb 2, 2013)

Nate River said:


> C'mon guys. Having a poor demeanor/attitude isn't the same as being an idiot. If it is, would you still consider figuring out how Izanagi works on first exposure as idiocy? Don't think so.



Sasuke decided to walk into a building that housed the five strongest ninja in all of the nations and challenge them all to fight to see what would happen. That's the definition of idiocy.

....he also insisted on abandoning his team at every turn, even though they were the only ones who kept him from getting oneshotted in every encounter.



PDQ said:


> I wish more people would realize this.  Sensing can't determine the future, they can sense the opponent's intentions, but against any decent opponent, the moment they start to counter-attack, their own body starts moving(they draw their arm back, shift their body weight) which can be read and count-counter-attacked as well.  It works well against guys like preskip Naruto who wasn't particularly good at Taijutsu, so even when his opponent counterattacks, he has no ability to read movements to do anything about it.  Tsunade is a different beast altogether.  Sharingan doesn't make it impossible to be hit, despite what many would have you think.



Yeah, you can show those people this.

Look at every instance of P1 Naruto punching.  His attacking hand will be cocked back behind his head before he throw his punch, which is telegraphing like no other.  Which means that the first thing he's presenting to his enemy is his face.  Surprise surprise, Sasuke countered that hard, by taking advantage in exactly that way.  We can also see that he over commits like mad, which means he has no concept of proper spacing or distance.  His solution to be blocked is to just hit harder and truck through it.  Compare this to everyone with good taijutsu (Lee, Kakashi, Guy, Tsunade) and we see that they present their fist first with their body leading into it.  Kishi made plot points out of this, and took the time and effort to draw everyone but Naruto fighting this way.  Precog is never going to work on anybody as beautifully as it did on Naruto.


----------



## Thunder (Feb 2, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Oh, that I support.  Sasuke isn't the god of evasion, and any character who attacks risks counter attack.  If he's not playing it very carefully, he's going to get tagged sooner, rather than later.



This exactly. Should have been more clear in my post, my bad.

I know most people around here consider Tsunade to be on the lower end of the Kage spectrum, but to say she couldn't even make _contact_ with her opponent is pushing it.


----------



## Bkprince33 (Feb 2, 2013)

Sasuke wins mid difficulty, sharingon precognition, chidori nagashi, sword of kusanagi, and sharingon genjutsu pretty much says tsunade will be lucky to even touch sasuke.



The slug gets put under a genjutsu easily and tsunade wouldn't even be aware of it right away, kirin is pretty much autowin, sasuke is just a terrible match for tsunade.


----------



## SoleAccord (Feb 2, 2013)

Bkprince33 said:


> kirin is pretty much autowin, sasuke is just a terrible match for tsunade.




Kirin is both restricted and takes prep. Read OP.


----------



## Art Master (Feb 2, 2013)

SoleAccord said:


> You'd be surprised how many people are willing to say it is in character for Tsunade to summon Katsuyu from the get-go and hide in her throughout the match. Match that with the fact she's never been shown wounded on panel, therefore to everyone else she is invulnerable to everything anyone can do.
> 
> You would be very ...very surprised.



What do you mean?


----------



## SoleAccord (Feb 2, 2013)

Not sure how to make that any more clear than it already is. People insist OOC shit like Tsunade summoning Katsuyu and HIDING in her the entire match. Not everyone, but enough to be laughable that she'd hide in Katsuyu rather than fight, especially given her go at Madara. 

She's the last person to get scared and hide if she can fight back.


----------



## joshhookway (Feb 3, 2013)

Sasuke is way faster and can cut off Tsunade's head off.


----------



## Krippy (Feb 4, 2013)

Sasuke has always been a bad matchup for Tsunade due to his precognitive advantage and his versatile Raiton techs that bypass her regeneration

I honestly don't even consider Hebi Sauce w/ Oro absorbed to be on the same tier as her, and Pre-oro absorbition Sauce is a ways above her as well

He takes this with low difficulty


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 4, 2013)

Saikyou said:


> What happens if Tsunade tries to hide in Katsuyu:


Something that can tank a CST in its tiny form, Chibaku Tensei, and Kurama's formally poisonous chakra without damage is not being damaged by Chidori Eiso. 

And really, Tsunade takes this. Byakugo and Sozo Sasei means Sasuke has nothing that can put her down for good. She's got more than enough speed and taijutsu feats to comfortably keep up with him and one punch will more than end him. And don't bring up 'Genjutsuing Katsuyu'-Katsuyu, being a slug, has an entirely different brain than vertebrates. And Tsunade can break her out of it too.

Sorry, Tsunade has proven she's on just another level than Hebi Sasuke. Just like Jiraiya, Orochimaru, and Itachi are.



joshhookway said:


> Sasuke is way faster and can cut off Tsunade's head off.


Tsunade could keep up with the Raikage, could react to Madara's attacks.

Stop it with 'Tsunade is slow' arguments, they're false and stupid.


----------



## Bonly (Feb 4, 2013)

Sasuke wins quite handily. He's faster then her as well as has the hax eyes of godlyness which gives him the advantage in CQC alone. Add in Chidori Nagashi along with his sword which can easily cut her up via Ration flow as well as make her body go numb shows him having a clear advantage in CQC.

Then add in how the range game is also his with techs like Chidori Eisō which can branch off and hit her in multiple places, Katon's which if it hits forces her to use up Byakugo quite fast and then the added genjutsu of Magen: Kasegui gives Sasuke a quick shot to finish her off. Add in the increase of power due to CS level 1+2 should help greatly.

If Tsunade summons Katsuyu then Sasuke could summon Manda and make her useless just like the last time the two met meaning Katsuyu would be a non factor.

Sasuke is just a bad match up for Tsunade.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Feb 5, 2013)

SoleAccord said:


> Letting Tsunade keep the ability that lets her move with two Susano'o blades impaled clean through her body isn't already one-sided, as well as her summon? You must not have a lot of confidence in her.
> 
> Let her keep Creation Rebirth and give *Sasuke full control of Manda, then it's an even fight.*





She fodderized Manda.


----------



## SoleAccord (Feb 5, 2013)

LegendaryBeauty said:


> She *stopped Manda with the help of Gamabunta and Jiraiya; Gamabunta's blade was key in winning. Who knows what would have happened had she not impaled his mouth.*



 You're right. Well put Legendary Beauty.


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Feb 5, 2013)

She probably would have just hit him.  Katsuya could follow up with acid, and that would probably do it.


----------



## Punished Pathos (Feb 6, 2013)

Sasuke would try and jam Tsuande's nerves with his own Raiton 
Sasuke takes this with mid diff


----------



## wooly Eullerex (Feb 6, 2013)

i vote for the sauce to win.

Tsunade cant punch light sabres nor can she reconstitute her anatomy afterwards.


----------



## Hossaim (Feb 6, 2013)

Tsunade runs up to Sasuke to punch him

Sasuke avoid easilly and loops her head off.

Not even fucking close to the same tier


----------



## Mercurial (Feb 7, 2013)

Hossaim said:


> Tsunade runs up to Sasuke to punch him
> 
> Sasuke avoid easilly and loops her head off.
> 
> Not even fucking close to the same tier



this should solo the thread


----------



## Doge (Feb 7, 2013)

Raikiri19 said:


> this should solo the thread



One of the few times I ever agree with Hossaim.

Tsunade is not made to beat a fighting style such as Sasuke's.


----------



## ueharakk (Feb 7, 2013)

SoleAccord said:


> You're right. Well put Legendary Beauty.



She would have punched him in the head instead, most likely knocking him out considering Sakura killed pein's giant centipede with one punch.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 7, 2013)

Hossaim said:


> Tsunade runs up to Sasuke to punch him
> 
> Sasuke avoid easilly and loops her head off.
> 
> Not even fucking close to the same tier


Which is why MADARA of all people praised her. 

Tsunade is on a higher tier than Hebi Sasuke. Fucking deal with it.


----------



## SoleAccord (Feb 8, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> She would have punched him in the head instead, most likely knocking him out considering Sakura killed pein's giant centipede with one punch.



Manda is not a fodder centipede with no name or any real qualities other than being a centipede with no personality or special ability.

You can speculate what you want to, just don't ever imply Tsunade beat Manda 1 on 1.


----------



## Hossaim (Feb 8, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Which is why MADARA of all people praised her.
> 
> Tsunade is on a higher tier than Hebi Sasuke. Fucking deal with it.



Madara would have an orgasm if he saw Sasuke right now lol.

If I praise a bug for lifting a leaf much bigger than it, does that make the bug able to fight a dog? Does it in anyway affect my ability to crush said bug or for said dog to crush said bug?

Tsunade cannot keep up with Sasuke's enhanced speed, nor does she have any techniques nearly as powerfull as Sasuke's Kirin (Which is restricted her for good reason).

Hebi Sasuke is way above Tsunade.


----------



## Doge (Feb 8, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Which is why MADARA of all people praised her.
> 
> Tsunade is on a higher tier than Hebi Sasuke. Fucking deal with it.



Madara sat there inside of his Susanoo and made no attempt to move.  And guess what happened after she kicked it in?  She fell for the Mokuton clone feint.

Tsunade still has extremely limited speed feats.  And Madara also never made a note of her speed, just her strength.  Sasuke's Sharingan was tracking V1 Raikage and Itachi, I'm sure Tsunade will be manageable.


----------



## ueharakk (Feb 8, 2013)

SoleAccord said:


> Manda is not a fodder centipede with no name or any real qualities other than being a centipede with no personality or special ability.


- And the centipede wasn't a fodder centipede either.  A fodder centipede would be the one naruto took out during the chuunin exams.

- And this was one of pein's rinnegan summons which was as large as orochimaru's second largest snake summons.

- And Tsunade's punches are far more powerful than Sakura's

- And Sakura KILLED the centipede with a body blow

So take all those things into account.  Tsunade being far stronger than sakura, in addition to the centipede not being fodder in comparison to boss summons, and Sakura killed it with a body blow convinces me that despite Manda being > Rinnepede, Tsuande could have knocked him out with a drop punch to the head.



SoleAccord said:


> You can speculate what you want to, just don't ever imply Tsunade beat Manda 1 on 1.



No tsunade never beat Manda 1 vs 1, but I don't think it's speculation to say that she had the offensive power to defeat him in that situation without bunta's sword.


----------



## SoleAccord (Feb 8, 2013)

No, it was fodder. It wasn't used against Jiraiya, Naruto, or any opponent of significance for one. It was used to destroy buildings and wreak havoc on the villagers, not fight 'real' Shinobi. It had little relevance and clearly was no heavy hitter in Pain's arsenal. It was a worthless, easily thrown away summon similar to the one Orochimaru used in the Forest of Death. It's greatest feat was destroying some buildings. It is not impressive in the slightest, nor was used in conjunction with anything else in Pain's arsenal. 

It was a worthless summon, minimal feats, and cannot be compared to Manda in any way, shape, or form as far as combat goes. With all that being said, you can think what you'd like based on a Centipede with zero feats and threat to anything other than villagers and fodder Konoha-nin, but I'm not comparing it to Manda's power and never will see it as equaling Manda.

Tsunade may be able to hurt Manda pretty badly, but I don't see what this has to do with the match. You're confronting me based on my response to someone heavily implying Tsunade defeated Manda herself. My beef was never if she could do it alone, my beef was that she DIDN'T do it alone.

No disrespect, but I don't think I'll see eye-to-eye with you. Can we just agree to disagree?


----------



## ueharakk (Feb 8, 2013)

SoleAccord said:


> No, it was fodder. It wasn't used against Jiraiya, Naruto, or any opponent of significance for one. It was used to destroy buildings and wreak havoc on the villagers, not fight 'real' Shinobi. It had little relevance and clearly was no heavy hitter in Pain's arsenal. It was a worthless, easily thrown away summon similar to the one Orochimaru used in the Forest of Death. It's greatest feat was destroying some buildings. It is not impressive in the slightest, nor was used in conjunction with anything else in Pain's arsenal.


I'm fine with it being equated to orochimaru's snake he used in forest of death.



SoleAccord said:


> It was a worthless summon, minimal feats, and cannot be compared to Manda in any way, shape, or form as far as combat goes. With all that being said, you can think what you'd like based on a Centipede with zero feats and threat to anything other than villagers and fodder Konoha-nin, but I'm not comparing it to Manda's power and never will see it as equaling Manda.


all I am talking about is the defenses of the centepede.  Based on Sakura's ability to one-shot something as big as that with a body blow, it's very feasable that tsunade can knock Manda out with a direct punch to the head.



SoleAccord said:


> Tsunade may be able to hurt Manda pretty badly, but I don't see what this has to do with the match. You're confronting me based on my response to someone heavily implying Tsunade defeated Manda herself. My beef was never if she could do it alone, my beef was that she DIDN'T do it alone.
> 
> No disrespect, but I don't think I'll see eye-to-eye with you. Can we just agree to disagree?


I don't think we even have to agree to disagree since I've already agreed with you that she didn't do it alone, and you have also said Tsunade may be able to hurt Manda pretty bad.

I just had the beef with the statement that in the same situation (aka with jiraiya + bunta) Tsunade needed the sword to beat Manda.


----------



## SoleAccord (Feb 8, 2013)

I said



> She stopped Manda with the help of Gamabunta and Jiraiya; Gamabunta's blade was key in winning. Who knows what would have happened had she not impaled his mouth.



I said the sword was key, as in vital, to stopping Manda _for certain_ and putting Naruto at less risk than he was already in. I was never implying Tsunade couldn't just punch him, but considering she was out of shape and Manda was so massive and fast, she might not have done as much damage as she was betting on.

Bunta's sword was a component to seal Manda's 'defeat', and it must have been necessary for Tsunade to put a stop to him. 

"Who knows what would have happened had she not impaled his mouth." As in that's up for speculation, as in anyone is free to assume what might have happened if the blade wasn't used. I never said it was the _only_ means of stopping him entirely, but it was the most efficient.


----------



## ueharakk (Feb 8, 2013)

SoleAccord said:


> I said
> 
> 
> 
> ...



okay, so problem solved then


----------



## Remsengan (Feb 8, 2013)

SoleAccord said:


> I said
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Mostly agreed.  If it was simply as easy as punching Manda she would have just done that.  But instead she sacrificed speed and risked the element of surprise by leaping into the air with a building-sized sword.

That being said...

A)She defeated Manda without Katsuya.
B)The strength required to use that sword might have all the same put Manda down, albeit not as effectively.
C) Snail>Snake.


----------



## SoleAccord (Feb 8, 2013)

Remsengan said:


> A)She defeated Manda without Katsuya.
> B)The strength required to use that sword might have all the same put Manda down, albeit not as effectively.
> C) Snail>Snake.



We just can't let this go can we? I really don't care since you can have your own opinions, but don't quote me trying to make up facts. 

A - She defeated Manda with support of Katsuyu, Jiraiya who she drugged, and Gamabunta. Why don't you give credit to the people who HELPED her? Why is that so hard to do? Yes, Tsunade did deal the move that stopped Manda's rampage but she did not 'defeat him' alone. He was fighting four different people at once, a little credit won't kill you. 
B - Speculation. I don't care if you think so, if you think so go ahead. 
C - Orochimaru at full power disagrees, especially with Edo Tensei prepped. So can we get rid of this Snake beats Frog but Frog beats Slug thing when feats beat any implications that don't apply to panel time?


----------



## LordSnow (Feb 8, 2013)

wait...Sasuke can't use Kirin, but Tsunade can heal? 
Well, If I  were Sasuke I'd put her under a genjutsu and gg.


----------



## Remsengan (Feb 8, 2013)

SoleAccord said:


> We just can't let this go can we? I really don't care since you can have your own opinions, but don't quote me trying to make up facts.
> 
> A - She defeated Manda with support of Katsuyu, Jiraiya who she drugged, and Gamabunta. Why don't you give credit to the people who HELPED her? Why is that so hard to do? Yes, Tsunade did deal the move that stopped Manda's rampage but she did not 'defeat him' alone. He was fighting four different people at once, a little credit won't kill you.
> B - Speculation. I don't care if you think so, if you think so go ahead.
> C - Orochimaru at full power disagrees, especially with Edo Tensei prepped. So can we get rid of this Snake beats Frog but Frog beats Slug thing when feats beat any implications that don't apply to panel time?



Obviously your more riled about about it than anyone else.  Hell, I even agreed with you mostly but clearly your just out to be 100 percent correct.  Just because I made a single post doesn't mean I can't "let it go".  

Look.....I'm letting it go right now.....(watches interest in your opinion float off into the distance)


----------



## SoleAccord (Feb 8, 2013)

Remsengan said:


> Obviously your more riled about about it than anyone else.



You don't say? 

Tsunade v.s. Manda isn't the match, and people continue to waste time trying to quote me to make points that aren't working whatsoever.  Hard to let it go when people want to keep quoting an off-topic matter that's been resolved.

Of course I'm irritated.


----------



## Magician (Feb 8, 2013)

I don't think Sasuke needs to outlast her like everyone seems to think. A good raiton to the neck should do it.


----------



## wooly Eullerex (Feb 9, 2013)

BDProductions34 said:


> I don't think Sasuke needs to outlast her like everyone seems to think. A good raiton to the neck should do it.


of course not. only zealous fanatics will argue that.

With the potency of his jutsu,
all he has to do is follow-up on any successful jutsu strike in combination instead of waiting/giving a speech & she dies. there is no plot interference & he has a friggin sharingan, so yeah...decapitation, GG


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 9, 2013)

Even though she has taijutsu mastery higher than Sasuke's? Or the fact she faced a Uchiha far stronger than Hebi Sasuke and managed to survive? Oh, and we're 'fanatics' since we don't trust obvious hate and bias for Tsunade?


----------



## Mercurial (Feb 9, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Even though she has taijutsu mastery higher than Sasuke's? Or the fact she faced a Uchiha far stronger than Hebi Sasuke and managed to survive? Oh, and we're 'fanatics' since we don't trust obvious hate and bias for Tsunade?



taijutsu mastery? you mean the taijutsu mastery who makes her just a "smashy-smashy" player and made her gete schooled in CQC by pt. 1 Kabuto? should that shit be useful against an opponent faster,more skilled and with a full fledged 3 tomoe Sharingan?


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (Feb 9, 2013)

Why are you _still_ only using Part I feats for Tsunade? Besides the fact that Tsunade never got  _' schooled '_ by Kabuto, she's shown far more impressive feats since then. I guess I'll just use Part I feats for Sasuke, in that case, because that's fair, right?​​​


----------



## Larcher (Feb 9, 2013)

Stermor said:


> uhm tsunade could hit madara.. what chance does hebi sasuke have of surviving an taijutsu assualt if madara had problems with it..
> 
> especially since sasuke has no way of stopping tsunade.. she can literly walk through his attacks.. punch him in the face and the upper body would be destroyed..


 I must agree with this I think tsunade is a bad match up in taijutsu,physical strength,intelligence,and stamina shown in the databook tsunade has this high diff.and if kiri isn't restricted she wins but loses katsuyu.


----------



## blk (Feb 9, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And really, Tsunade takes this. Byakugo and Sozo Sasei means Sasuke has nothing that can put her down for good. She's got more than enough speed and taijutsu feats to comfortably keep up with him and one punch will more than end him. And don't bring up 'Genjutsuing Katsuyu'-Katsuyu, being a slug, has an entirely different brain than vertebrates. And Tsunade can break her out of it too.



Sasuke is fast enough for almost blitz Deidara and keep-up with the Raikage (without Shunshin), i don't recall Tsunade having speed feats of this level.

But even if she can reach him, assuming that with reputational knowledge he will be aware of Tsunade's legendary strength, the Chidori Nagashi render Sasuke pretty much immune to Tsunade's Taijutsu, while with his other variants (and the Katons) he can attack her from a safety distance (or even from the sky, thanks to the CS2 augmentation).

In the case that the reputational knowledge doesn't include any information regarding Tsunade's strength, she will have big chances to hit him.
_However_ an hit will not grant to Tsunade the victory, thanks to Oral Rebith.
Infact, after getting hit, Sasuke will have acquired knowledge about her strength and will therefore start to fight as i already said.

If Katsuyu can't be controlled with a genjutsu, Manda will counter it without problems.

As you can see, Sasuke is a bad match-up for Tsunade, and her chances of winning are nearly non-existent.


----------



## hokage5522 (Feb 9, 2013)

SoleAccord said:


> Damn it Rocky I was trying to make a point. I mean Sasuke still wins this, but damn it.
> 
> Sharingan precognition and speed allow Sasuke the mobility and evasion to avoid all her linear blows and the AOE will not halt him in the slightest. With Sharingan monitoring her chakra levels, if she does use Creation Rebirth and Byakugou, and if she boasts she can't die at the cost of her chakra, he can either wait it out or go for everything above the neck, but has no NEED to attack while she wastes her chakra.
> 
> ...


Got to totally agree with you. oroh dodged a number of tsunade attacks with just his speed and no arms, you have sasuke with the same base speed and sharingan to boot, there is no way tsunade is ever going to touch him. hebi sasuke brings a great deal of justu to this fight (oroh and his own) while i think it would be a prolong fight, in the end sasuke take this.


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (Feb 9, 2013)

blk said:


> Sasuke is fast enough for almost blitz Deidara and *keep-up with the Raikage (without Shunshin)*, i don't recall Tsunade having speed feats of this level.



The bolded was not _Hebi Sasuke_, Sasuke had long since abandoned his team by that stage, hence losing the fan-made title. He was faster and generally stronger than the former was. 

Sasuke's repeated use of shunshin was too much for Deidara, but then, Deidara only had a 3.5 in taijutsu, and his close combat ability was nothing to marvel at. He had a generous 4.5 in speed in the DB, equaled with Sasuke. Tsunade has a 3.5 in speed, a 5 in taijutsu, and has enough skill to attack in unison with a Base Ei, land a hit on Madara, and consecutively bat away five large fireballs with just her fists. Add in the fact that she's an evasion expert, has years of combat experience, and suddenly replicating Deidara's ability to evade Sasuke's attacks becomes feasible. 

Of course she'll struggle to keep up with his attacks at times, but its not like she isn't able to afford taking a few hits here and there - she's a tank.



> But even if she can reach him, assuming that with reputational knowledge he will be aware of Tsunade's legendary strength, the Chidori Nagashi render Sasuke pretty much immune to Tsunade's Taijutsu, while with his other variants (and the Katons) he can attack her from a safety distance (or even from the sky, thanks to the CS2 augmentation).



Its unknown whether or not Sasuke knows of her physical strength. He has no real reason to investigate the powers of the Sannin, and who knows if Orochimaru gave enough fucks about Tsunade to tell Sasuke about her. I'm not sure how Chidori Nagashi renders her taijutsu useless . . could you elaborate? I mean, I know it will make her muscles go numb, but provided she can heal herself that would be ineffective.



> In the case that the reputational knowledge doesn't include any information regarding Tsunade's strength, she will have big chances to hit him.
> _However_ an hit will not grant to Tsunade the victory, thanks to Oral Rebith.
> Infact, after getting hit, Sasuke will have acquired knowledge about her strength and will therefore start to fight as i already said.



I disagree. Sasuke doesn't seem to have the same extent of snake powers that Orochimaru has, he doesn't have a natural regeneration when cut or wounded, for example. Furthermore, he can only shed his skin when he's actually conscious, and he most definitely won't be conscious after taking a hit from Tsunade. However, its true that once he see's the extent of her strength [which he will], he'll probably try to fight at a distance. 



> If Katsuyu can't be controlled with a genjutsu, Manda will counter it without problems.



Uhh . . no, he won't. None of Manda's attack can harm Katsuyu since she can just divide. And if he tries to bite her, tiny clones can latch to him and spit acid all over his body. Manda wouldn't serve as anymore than a temporary distraction.​​​


----------



## blk (Feb 9, 2013)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> The bolded was not _Hebi Sasuke_, Sasuke had long since abandoned his team by that stage, hence losing the fan-made title. He was faster and generally stronger than the former was.
> 
> Sasuke's repeated use of shunshin was too much for Deidara, but then, Deidara only had a 3.5 in taijutsu, and his close combat ability was nothing to marvel at. He had a generous 4.5 in speed in the DB, equaled with Sasuke. Tsunade has a 3.5 in speed, a 5 in taijutsu, and has enough skill to attack in unison with a Base Ei, land a hit on Madara, and consecutively bat away five large fireballs with just her fists. Add in the fact that she's an evasion expert, has years of combat experience, and suddenly replicating Deidara's ability to evade Sasuke's attacks becomes feasible.



Hebi Sasuke and Taka Sasuke have the same speed, since the MS (which is the only thing that the Taka version has over the former) doesn't increase it.
Hell, if anything, with the CS2 the Hebi version should be faster.

However, i'm not arguing if Tsunade can react to Sasuke's Shunshin or not, i'm saying that she can't reach Sasuke if he doesn't fight at close range.
This all what matters, since the Uchiha, after knowing about her strength, will surely attack her from safety distance with the Chidori variants and the Katons, eventually outlasting the Byakugou.




> Its unknown whether or not Sasuke knows of her physical strength. He has no real reason to investigate the powers of the Sannin, and who knows if Orochimaru gave enough fucks about Tsunade to tell Sasuke about her. I'm not sure how Chidori Nagashi renders her taijutsu useless . . could you elaborate? I mean, I know it will make her muscles go numb, but provided she can heal herself that would be ineffective.



With Chidori Nagashi, Sasuke will be able stop any coming punch if Tsunade manage to come close to him, giving to him the faculty to increase the distance once again.



> I disagree. Sasuke doesn't seem to have the same extent of snake powers that Orochimaru has, he doesn't have a natural regeneration when cut or wounded, for example. Furthermore, he can only shed his skin when he's actually conscious, and he most definitely won't be conscious after taking a hit from Tsunade. However, its true that once he see's the extent of her strength [which he will], he'll probably try to fight at a distance.



Sasuke used Oral Rebirth against Itachi's Amaterasu, so, if he receives a lethal hit he can immediately resort to that and regenerate completely.



> Uhh . . no, he won't. None of Manda's attack can harm Katsuyu since she can just divide. And if he tries to bite her, tiny clones can latch to him and spit acid all over his body. Manda wouldn't serve as anymore than a temporary distraction.



Katsuyu isn't immortal, if she is hit without giving the chance of divide, she will die [1]; otherwise, Bunta wouldn't have needed to block Manda's bite.
Also, Manda is far too fast for Katsuyu [2], so there is no way that any of her attacks will tag him. If she manages to hit him, then he can simply does the molting  [3] and cancel any significant damage.

At best, nor Katsuyu nor Manda will be able to kill each other (note that this is assuming that Sasuke can't genjutsu Tsunade's summon).


----------



## Remsengan (Feb 9, 2013)

blk said:


> However, i'm not arguing if Tsunade can react to Sasuke's Shunshin or not, i'm saying that she can't reach Sasuke if he doesn't fight at close range.
> This all what matters, since the Uchiha, after knowing about her strength, will surely attack her from safety distance with the Chidori variants and the Katons,* eventually outlasting the Byakugou*.



How does Sasuke outlast Byakugou when it lasted several chapters vs Madara?  Sasuke doesn't have that much chakra for the level of ninjutsu spam as you imply he does.





blk said:


> With Chidori Nagashi, Sasuke will be able stop any coming punch if Tsunade manage to come close to him, giving to him the faculty to increase the distance once again.



So Tsunade can continue moving with severed lungs+other mortal wounds but not electricity?




blk said:


> Sasuke used Oral Rebirth against Itachi's Amaterasu, so, if he receives an lethal hit he can immediately resort to that and regenerate completely.



And also use a larger part of his chakra in the process.

Tsunade has Sasuke beat in pure endurance.  Make all the decapitation/regen disabling arguments you want but putting Sasuke's ability to outlast Tsunade is nonsense.


----------



## blk (Feb 9, 2013)

Remsengan said:


> How does Sasuke outlast Byakugou when it lasted several chapters vs Madara?  Sasuke doesn't have that much chakra for the level of ninjutsu spam as you imply he does.



Do you think that Sasuke needs to spam ninjutsu that much?



> So Tsunade can continue moving with severed lungs+other mortal wounds but not electricity?



Chidori Nagashi numbs the muscles.



> Tsunade has Sasuke beat in pure endurance.  Make all the decapitation/regen disabling arguments you want but putting Sasuke's ability to outlast Tsunade is nonsense.



Your argument for say that Tsunade has a greater endurance relies on an unknown time-frame, the nonsense is yours.


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (Feb 9, 2013)

blk said:


> Hebi Sasuke and Taka Sasuke have the same speed, since the MS (which is the only thing that the Taka version has over the former) doesn't increase it.
> Hell, if anything, with the CS2 the Hebi version should be faster.



Er, yeh, thats what I meant haha. His MS gives him advanced precog that allows him to keep up with faster opponents. He's not faster per say but, I guess he may as well be! Personally, I'm unsure if Sasuke's CS2 form has a significant impact on his speed - I don't recall him ever having any dramatic speed boosts after activating the seal in Part II. Indeed, in Part I his shunshins were upgraded via the curse mark, but this hasn't been the case since. Or at least, I don't recall this being the case.



> However, i'm not arguing if Tsunade can react to Sasuke's Shunshin or not, i'm saying that she can't reach Sasuke if he doesn't fight at close range.
> This all what matters, since the Uchiha, after knowing about her strength, will surely attack her from safety distance with the Chidori variants and the Katons, eventually outlasting the Byakugou.



I can agree that he'll try to launch ranged attacks, but he's arrogant - Tsunade's strength won't scare nor put him off trying to attack at close range. Ei's brute strength and speed didn't put him off trying to land Raikiri's, Killer Bee's speed and kenjutsu skill didn't put him off trying to cut him with his sword, Naruto's Kyuubi shroud didn't stop him running into close combat. 

He isn't outlasting Byakugou either, in fact, if anything she'll outlast him. Bare in mind that when Tsunade fought Madara, she had only been storing chakra in her seal for a month or so at best. She was in a coma for a long time, and when she woke up her country was going to war, so she didn't exactly have much time to prepare. Furthermore, Tsunade rarely fights in matches where she even needs to activate her seal, in other words, she usually has a lot more chakra stored in her seal than what she did in this current arc. 

Now, given that when Tsunade released the chakra in her seal it was _day time_, and that whenever she ran out of chakra it was _night time_, its clear that with only a month or so of chakra storage, Tsunade can collectively use her base reserves and Infuin chakra to throw attacks, regenerate wounds, feed chakra to other shinobi, and shunshin around, for several hours before collapsing in exhaustion. With even more chakra - a year or so, for example, it would be nigh-on impossible to exhaust the Godaime.





> With Chidori Nagashi, Sasuke will be able stop any coming punch if Tsunade manage to come close to him, giving to him the faculty to increase the distance once again.



Tsunade is incredibly reslient, she's fought through having her spine cut in half, her organs pulped, her bones shredded, her body bisected - I can't imagine an attack of that level would be able to slow her down or stop her from brutally charging at Sasuke. 



> Sasuke used Oral Rebirth against Itachi's Amaterasu, so, if he receives an lethal hit he can immediately resort to that and regenerate completely.



Amaterasu is a slow burning attack that doesn't mortally wound upon impact. One of Tsunade's blows was great enough to bypass Orochimaru's regeneration and knock him out temporarily, and shatter Madara's Susano'o into pieces - something Mei Terumi and Ei couldn't do against a weaker version of that same Susano'o. Hell, one of Tsunade's blows put a giant hole through Madara's body - I'm positive Sasuke wouldn't be conscious to shed his skin like that, he isn't Orochimaru.




> Katsuyu isn't immortal, if she is hit without giving the chance of divide, she will die [1]; otherwise, Bunta wouldn't have needed to block Manda's bite.
> Also, Manda is far too fast for Katsuyu [2], so there is no way that any of her attacks will tag him. If she manages to hit him, then he can simply does the molting  [3] and cancel any significant damage.



Katsuyu was certain that she could survive being thrown at lightning speed across the battlefield because of her ability to divide, that would imply even fast attacks can be countered via division [ 1 ]. Katsuyu is also incredibly durable, Chou Shinra Tensei hardly even phased her. Manda's blunt force attacks would not work.

Katsuyu's attacks can hit him. Granted, if she just spits a large acid blast its easily dodged, but if hundreds of tiny divisions latch onto him, or slip inside his mouth when he goes to chomp her head off, they can spit acid all over his body - inside and out. Its true that he can shed his skin to escape damage, but he wouldn't even think to shed his skin if he doesn't know Katsuyu divisions are attacking him - given their small size and slow movements, they can be pretty subtle.



> At best, nor Katsuyu nor Manda will be able to kill each other (note that this is assuming that Sasuke can't genjutsu Tsunade's summon).



Both sides can counter the others attacks, but at least Katsuyu's attacks can actually wound Manda, while the snake has no way of harming her. Its far more likely that Katsuyu would defeat Manda than the reverse, especially given the Slug > Snake theme seen in the Sansukomi relationship in which the Sannin are based on.

Manda might be able to stall a large Katsuyu, but given that she can just send smaller divisions to help Tsunade, the Princess can still rely on her summon for battle purposes.​​


----------



## Remsengan (Feb 9, 2013)

blk said:


> Do you think that Sasuke needs to spam ninjutsu that much?



If the goal is to run down Tsunade's chakra, yes.  




blk said:


> Chidori Nagashi numbs the muscles.



That might work once but Tsunade can probably compensate just like Kabuto did.



blk said:


> Your argument for say that Tsunade has a greater endurance relies on an unknown time-frame, the nonsense is yours.



How is the time frame unknown?  Sasuke lasted 1-2 chapters of ninjutsu spamming fighting Itachi before he ran out of chakra.  Tsunade lasted much longer vs an opponent who spammed more, stronger jutsu.


----------



## Magician (Feb 9, 2013)

Remsengan said:


> If the goal is to run down Tsunade's chakra, yes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He doesn't need to outlast her. He can simply cut off her head with raiton and be done with it.


----------



## Remsengan (Feb 10, 2013)

BDProductions34 said:


> He doesn't need to outlast her. He can simply cut off her head with raiton and be done with it.



If you paid attention to what was my point, you'd notice I said that I was strictly looking at the contention that  Sasuke could run Byakugou dry.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 10, 2013)

BDProductions34 said:


> He doesn't need to outlast her. He can simply cut off her head with raiton and be done with it.


And Tsunade, whose reacted to _faster_ characters can't fucking dodge?


----------



## wooly Eullerex (Feb 10, 2013)

chidori eiso blossom x5 or until his sharingan has confirmed her chakra/biological function has ceased.





SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And Tsunade, whose reacted to _faster_ characters can't fucking dodge?



of coursu she cant dodge it. shes gonna try to punch him, remember?  smh...

& italiscising the word ''faster'' doesnt help your arguement if u dont even have a legitimate point to make


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 10, 2013)

diadora Lotto said:


> chidori eiso blossom x5 or until his sharingan has confirmed her chakra/biological function has ceased.


And she can just continually regenerate from that.



> of coursu she cant dodge it. shes gonna try to punch him, remember?  smh...


So funny from a hater. Tsunade has higher taijutsu mastery than Sasuke and reacted to faster and more skilled characters than him.


----------



## wooly Eullerex (Feb 10, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And she can just continually regenerate from that.


No, no she cant :S




> So funny from a hater. Tsunade has higher taijutsu mastery than Sasuke and reacted to faster and more skilled characters than him.



 wut is a hater? is that a club?...well im not a member
i abide by logic, objectivity & genuity~

Hebi sasuke simply has much greater combat potential than Tsunade

& u still are spouting meaningless -isms


----------



## Magician (Feb 10, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And she can just continually regenerate from that.
> 
> 
> So funny from a hater. Tsunade has higher taijutsu mastery than Sasuke and reacted to faster and more skilled characters than him.



Sasuke can easily keep her at bay with his raiton and fire jutsu. Have you seen the range on his chidori. Sooner or later he's going to aim for that head.  And what faster opponent has she reacted to. Tsunade is reckless in that form and has taken multiple hits. She hasn't shown any considerable speed feats to continually dodge Sasuke's attacks and somehow get close enough to land a hit(which should be easily dodged by Sasuke with sharingan).

Tsuande is completely out classed here.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 10, 2013)

BDProductions34 said:


> Sasuke can easily keep her at bay with his raiton and fire jutsu.


Katons are not doing fucking shit.

And his raiton? Yeah fucking right.


> Have you seen the range on his chidori. Sooner or later he's going to aim for that head.


And with Byakugo she can regen from it.


> And what faster opponent has she reacted to.


Refer you to my earlier scan of her being the only Kage to react to Madara.


> Tsunade is reckless in that form and has taken multiple hits.


She's been stabbed, slashed, completely run through, impaled by giant swords, taken Madara's Katons, had her chest muscles completely severed and Yasaka Magatama. She can take multiple hits. Yet she's kept going. Hell even being ripped in half hasn't stopped her. 


> She hasn't shown any considerable speed feats to continually dodge Sasuke's attacks and somehow get close enough to land a hit(which should be easily dodged by Sasuke with sharingan).


Yeah, it isn't like she kept up with a lightened V2 A to attack Madara simultaneously from both sides huh?

Or blitzing a Susano'o Wood Clone with two Susano'o swords in her stomach.


> Tsuande is completely out classed here.


Other way around. Tsunade has fought a far stronger Uchiha and fucking survived.


----------



## wooly Eullerex (Feb 10, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And with Byakugo she can regen from it.


stop lying



> She can't take multiple hits? She's been stabbed, slashed, completely run through, impaled by giant swords, taken Madara's Katons, had her chest muscles completely severed and Yasaka Magatama. She can take multiple hits. Stop lying.



scans of tsunade regenerating from chidori eiso/ decapitation or bifurication?



> Other way around. Tsunade has fought a far stronger Uchiha and fucking survived.


No, no she realli is outclassed here. but im starting to think u r trolling anyway. 
surviving doesnt demonstrate the ability to survive against a totally different opponent & circumstance


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 10, 2013)

diadora Lotto said:


> stop lying


Its not lying. Everything the manga's shown she can regenerate from.




> scans of tsunade regenerating from chidori eiso/ decapitation or bifurication?


With Katsuyu she can..

And Chidori Eiso is a simple stab attack anyway.


> No, no she realli is outclassed here. but im starting to think u r trolling anyway.
> surviving doesnt demonstrate the ability to survive against a totally different opponent & circumstance


I'm trolling? You're bashing a character and using Part I feats of her and ignoring her Part II feats so you can wank off to Sasuke. *I'M FUCKING TROLLING?*


----------



## wooly Eullerex (Feb 10, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Its not lying. Everything the manga's shown she can regenerate from.


yes u are...& what r u meaning by ''everything''



> With Katsuyu she can..
> 
> And Chidori Eiso is a simple stab attack anyway.


 what about decapitation, & headshots/eiso can do any form on cutting as its superior manipulation to tsurugi which cuts clean thru objects

what if kaystuu is fighting manda?




> ]I'm trolling? You're bashing a character and using Part I feats of her and ignoring her Part II feats so you can wank off to Sasuke. *I'M FUCKING TROLLING?*




yes ure a troll who uses platitudes & character stature/relevance as a formullative argument in the NBD.
where did i ''wank''?
when did i use part 1?
where did i ''bash''? did i call tsunade a name or diminish her ability?
is making an assessment of inferiority in a supremacy match improper?


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 10, 2013)

diadora Lotto said:


> yes it is...& what r u meaning by ''everything''


Everything in Sasuke's arsenal can be regenerated from in Byakugo state.


> what about decapitation, & headshots/eiso can do any form on cutting as its superior manipulation to tsurugi which cuts clean thru objects


Decapitation can be survived via Katsuyu. And Headshots-again, REGENERATION. 


> what if kaystuu is fighting manda?


And Katsuyu can't split for some reason?






> yes ure a troll who uses platitudes & character stature/relevance as a formullative argument in the NBD.
> where did i ''wank''?
> when did i use part 1?
> where did i ''bash''? did i call tsunade a name or diminish her ability?
> is making an assessment of inferiority in a supremacy match improper?


You've been fucking claiming Tsunade can't defend against a simple sword slash or even avoid it. 

You've been ignoring Tsunade's feats are downplaying them this ENTIRE topic.


----------



## Magician (Feb 10, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Katons are not doing fucking shit.
> 
> And his raiton? Yeah fucking right.
> 
> And with Byakugo she can regen from it.



Her fucking head? She isn't Majin Buu...honestly.



> Refer you to my earlier scan of her being the only Kage to react to Madara.
> 
> She's been stabbed, slashed, completely run through, impaled by giant swords, taken Madara's Katons, had her chest muscles completely severed and Yasaka Magatama. She can take multiple hits. Yet she's kept going. Hell even being ripped in half hasn't stopped her.



I said that she HAS taken multiple hits. My whole point is that she's reckless and tends to tank attacks instead of _dodge_ them, which makes Sasuke's job much easier.



> Other way around. Tsunade has fought a far stronger Uchiha and fucking survived.



barely...


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 10, 2013)

BDProductions34 said:


> Her fucking head? She isn't Majin Buu...honestly.


Why shouldn't she? She's shown some high class regen.




> I said that she HAS taken multiple hits. My whole point is that she's reckless and tends to tank attacks instead of _dodge_ them, which makes Sasuke's job much easier.


It doesn't diminish her taijutsu skill and Sasuke's shown arrogance.




> barely...


Tsunade forced Madara to use a Wood Clone to escape sealing after blowing his body apart.


----------



## wooly Eullerex (Feb 10, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Everything in Sasuke's arsenal can be regenerated from in Byakugo state.


bullshit



> Decapitation can be survived via Katsuyu. And Headshots-again, REGENERATION.


scans or bullshit



> And Katsuyu can't split for some reason?


 scans off katsyuu fighting her peer in split form while healing Tsunade from bifurication







> You've been fucking claiming Tsunade can't defend against a simple sword slash or even avoid it.


 well she cant...she actually tends to absorb lots of blows & sasuke is pretty ruthless
 & his chidori variations arent simple but one of the most dynamic & viscious jutsu strings in the history of this manga


> [/]You've been ignoring Tsunade's feats are downplaying them this ENTIRE topic.


Bullshit.

 if madara or Hebi sasuke want to put someone who is multiple tiers inferior in terms of combat ability & potential down, They will absolutey put them DOWN!

i wont apologize for being objective, sorry...were arguing lit. fiction here...


----------



## Doge (Feb 10, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Its not lying. Everything the manga's shown she can regenerate from.



No, you are mistaken.  She has never shown feats of regenerating a lost limb or major body part on her own.  At best, Katsuya would have to help her.



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> With Katsuyu she can..
> 
> And Chidori Eiso is a simple stab attack anyway.



Because of course, Sasuke will allow Katsuya to stick both parts of her body together.  



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> I'm trolling? You're bashing a character and using Part I feats of her and ignoring her Part II feats so you can wank off to Sasuke. *I'M FUCKING TROLLING?*



Yeah, you are.  

Katsuya said that she can heal Tsunade's bisection (with Madara not even on the battlefield anymore), naturally Tsunade and Katsuya can now heal from a similar attack from Sasuke while he continues to attack.  

How does that makes sense?  That's not even taking into consideration Manda's presence.

Also, you claim Tsunade can heal from head shots/decapitations.  Clearly trolling as she has never been shown to come back from the dead considering a shot to the head would instantly kill her before she could heal.


----------



## blk (Feb 10, 2013)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Er, yeh, thats what I meant haha. His MS gives him advanced precog that allows him to keep up with faster opponents. He's not faster per say but, I guess he may as well be! Personally, I'm unsure if Sasuke's CS2 form has a significant impact on his speed - I don't recall him ever having any dramatic speed boosts after activating the seal in Part II. Indeed, in Part I his shunshins were upgraded via the curse mark, but this hasn't been the case since. Or at least, I don't recall this being the case.



The CS2 is a lesser version of the Sage Mode, so it enhances every attribute of the user.



> I can agree that he'll try to launch ranged attacks, but he's arrogant - Tsunade's strength won't scare nor put him off trying to attack at close range. Ei's brute strength and speed didn't put him off trying to land Raikiri's, Killer Bee's speed and kenjutsu skill didn't put him off trying to cut him with his sword, Naruto's Kyuubi shroud didn't stop him running into close combat.



Sasuke was on rampage against the Raikage, he didn't fought intelligently as he did against Deidara and Itachi.
Against Killer Bee, he had no knowledge of his style, infact after testing the superior skill of his opponent, he let Suigetsu and Juugo help him in the fight.

The Hebi Sasuke that fought Itachi and Deidara will not suicide himself into CQC.



> He isn't outlasting Byakugou either, in fact, if anything she'll outlast him. Bare in mind that when Tsunade fought Madara, she had only been storing chakra in her seal for a month or so at best. She was in a coma for a long time, and when she woke up her country was going to war, so she didn't exactly have much time to prepare. Furthermore, Tsunade rarely fights in matches where she even needs to activate her seal, in other words, she usually has a lot more chakra stored in her seal than what she did in this current arc.
> 
> Now, given that when Tsunade released the chakra in her seal it was _day time_, and that whenever she ran out of chakra it was _night time_, its clear that with only a month or so of chakra storage, Tsunade can collectively use her base reserves and Infuin chakra to throw attacks, regenerate wounds, feed chakra to other shinobi, and shunshin around, for several hours before collapsing in exhaustion. With even more chakra - a year or so, for example, it would be nigh-on impossible to exhaust the Godaime.



How will Tsunade outlast Sasuke? Her chakra will be continously sucked by Byakugou.

Hell, for all we know there could have been just one hour before the night.

How do you know that there isn't a limit for how much chakra Tsunade can store?
But either way, we have to use Tsunade's feats against Madara, since there is no way to know how much the tecnique would last with a bigger preparation time (and the preparation time should even be specified in the OP, in this case).



> Tsunade is incredibly reslient, she's fought through having her spine cut in half, her organs pulped, her bones shredded, her body bisected - I can't imagine an attack of that level would be able to slow her down or stop her from brutally charging at Sasuke.



The electrocution alters the nerve transmission, causing uncontrollable muscle contractions.
The attacks that she resisted to are of a completely different nature.



> Amaterasu is a slow burning attack that doesn't mortally wound upon impact. One of Tsunade's blows was great enough to bypass Orochimaru's regeneration and knock him out temporarily, and shatter Madara's Susano'o into pieces - something Mei Terumi and Ei couldn't do against a weaker version of that same Susano'o. Hell, one of Tsunade's blows put a giant hole through Madara's body - I'm positive Sasuke wouldn't be conscious to shed his skin like that, he isn't Orochimaru.



He was conscious after getting hit by Deidara's bombs, so a punch shouldn't be that much of a problem.




> Katsuyu was certain that she could survive being thrown at lightning speed across the battlefield because of her ability to divide, that would imply even fast attacks can be countered via division [ 1 ]. Katsuyu is also incredibly durable, Chou Shinra Tensei hardly even phased her. Manda's blunt force attacks would not work.



Ok.



> Katsuyu's attacks can hit him. Granted, if she just spits a large acid blast its easily dodged, but if hundreds of tiny divisions latch onto him, or slip inside his mouth when he goes to chomp her head off, they can spit acid all over his body - inside and out. Its true that he can shed his skin to escape damage, but he wouldn't even think to shed his skin if he doesn't know Katsuyu divisions are attacking him - given their small size and slow movements, they can be pretty subtle.



These divisions would have to land and be able to not be blown away by Manda's speed, in order to spit over him. In the worst case, he can take them off by going underground.
But even if he gets hit by some acid, the damage will be almost insignificant, since only a little part of the Katsuyus would be able to hit him.

After getting hit by some of the acid, Manda will surely start to attack with more cautious.



> Both sides can counter the others attacks, but at least Katsuyu's attacks can actually wound Manda, while the snake has no way of harming her. Its far more likely that Katsuyu would defeat Manda than the reverse, especially given the Slug > Snake theme seen in the Sansukomi relationship in which the Sannin are based on.



Katsuyu can barely hit Manda (since she can't even _react_ to him).
If she will win, it would after a lot of time of trying.
But either way, a tie between the two is far more plausible.



> Manda might be able to stall a large Katsuyu, but given that she can just send smaller divisions to help Tsunade, the Princess can still rely on her summon for battle purposes.



True.
However, Sasuke can summon the lesser snakes for compensate.




Remsengan said:


> If the goal is to run down Tsunade's chakra, yes.



Nope, the Byakugou sucks her chakra over time, Sasuke doesn't need to constantly hit her.
He will not need to spam ninjutsu so much to exhaust himself.



> That might work once but Tsunade can probably compensate just like Kabuto did.



She can't, the electrocution causes uncontrollable muscle contractions, Kabuto's jutsu was different as far as i remember.



> How is the time frame unknown?  Sasuke lasted 1-2 chapters of ninjutsu spamming fighting Itachi before he ran out of chakra.  Tsunade lasted much longer vs an opponent who spammed more, stronger jutsu.



Sasuke's fight against Itachi lasted 10 chapters, pretty much like the chapters that passed from when Tsunade activated Byakugou to when she finished it.
We don't know how much time passes in the chapters, just one might have a bigger time-frame than 10, for all we know.




SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Decapitation can be survived via Katsuyu. And Headshots-again, REGENERATION.



This is an absurdity.
Tsunade was nearly dead when Madara bisected her with the Mokuton; she will not survive if Sasuke uses the Chidori spear to cut her head.


----------



## Tobirama Uchiha (May 14, 2016)

Sasuke will dodge any Tsunade's attack just like Kakashi dodged every Sakura's, she is slow as her summoning and then he will finish her with Lighting release
Mid/Diff win for Sasuke

Reactions: Dislike 1


----------



## Veracity (May 14, 2016)

Yo Rocky used to hate Tsunade


----------



## Empathy (May 14, 2016)

With no _Kirin_, Sasuke doesn't have means to win.


----------



## Ashi (May 14, 2016)

Oh Lord the same Tsunade that survived against 5 of Madara's susanoo is gonna get bodied by Hebi Sasuke who is at best Itachi level


EDIT: I just realized this was a necro....


----------

