# Six Paths Sage Mode VS Ten Tails Jinchuriki



## King Ramirez (Apr 23, 2018)

Which power-up is greater? It seems to me that SPSM is better but let's do a battle. *The battle is hypothetical* since one needs the Rinnegan to become the Juubi Jin.

*Battle: SPSM Naruto VS JJ Madara (Full Juubi)
Restrictions:* Madara doesn't have his Rinnegan.
so, who wins?


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## Android (Apr 23, 2018)

To simply answer your question, Six Paths Jubi Coffin Seal > Six Paths Sage Mode.

On top of the tremendous boost in physical abilities you get from the Jubi Coffin Seal, you also get:
- Super healing/regeneration powers.
- an astronomical chakra reserve
- Sword of Nonoboku
- the Jubi's final form (the Shinju).

But I think the RSM gives you a bigger boost in physical parameters seeing that base Naruto < base Obito or Madara in speed, strength and reactions, but when using his six paths mode he's faster, physically stronger and has better reflexes than them going by feats and the DB.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Hi no Ishi (Apr 23, 2018)

Rikudo Sage Mode with tailed beast co-op made the difference. 

6 paths coffin seal clearly was getting wrecked and had to deal with containing the beast, whereas the beast are in Naruto on purpose and happy about it. 
No chance of them running wild or taking over your personality like Obito.


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## Android (Apr 23, 2018)

Hi no Ishi said:


> Rikudo Sage Mode with tailed beast co-op made the difference.
> 
> 6 paths coffin seal clearly was getting wrecked and had to deal with containing the beast, whereas the beast are in Naruto on purpose and happy about it.
> No chance of them running wild or taking over your personality like Obito.


The RSM itself has nothing to do with any Biju chakra.


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## Hi no Ishi (Apr 23, 2018)

Cosmos said:


> The RSM itself has nothing to do with any Biju chakra.


Yep, that's why I mentioned them as separate things. 
Him knowing how to just do any jutsu now, is powerful on its own.
Combined with the co-op it was devastating.


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## kayz (Apr 24, 2018)

Full juubi grants immortality.
the juubi > SPSM


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## Ghost Of The Uchiha (Apr 24, 2018)

Madara would win:

— he has better offense with  truth-seekers, Sword of Nunoboko, Quad Juubidama and a JJ amped V4.

—he has better defense with JJ regeneration and healing considering his body tanked a Sekizo barrage, Yagai and YRS  all head on, so with a full 9 TSB-shield and V4 there's nothing Naruto can do to even damage him.

—they have the same reactions per the 4th DB so Naruto obviously can't bliz him.

—Limbo (even if restricted here) would give him the victory too assuming it could use all of his abilities at full power as the DB suggests.

—TSB shield, JJ amped V4 allow him to protect the tree and the barrier enough to charge the  Quad Juubidama and win.


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## King Ramirez (Apr 24, 2018)

Ghost Of The Uchiha said:


> Madara would win:
> 
> — he has better offense with  truth-seekers, Sword of Nunoboko, Quad Juubidama and a JJ amped V4.
> 
> ...


Didn't Naruto already trash JJ Madara with 1 Rinnegan? so what's all this essay?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Android (Apr 24, 2018)

King Ramirez said:


> Didn't Naruto already trash JJ Madara with 1 Rinnegan


People usually ignore this feat because they think Madara was already injured.
But Madara himself confirmed that he already finished healing before he ate that YRS.


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## Ghost Of The Uchiha (Apr 24, 2018)

King Ramirez said:


> Didn't Naruto already trash JJ Madara with 1 Rinnegan? so what's all this essay?


He never trashed him, his punch got blocked and his YRS got tanked.
Madara also had lost all his TSB bar his staff in the Gai fight.
Madara wins because Naruto has nothing to kill him with considering what his body has tanked head on (YRS, Yagai and Sekizo barrage), logically his defenses would be even better with a full TSB shield and V4.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Ghost Of The Uchiha (Apr 24, 2018)

Cosmos said:


> But Madara himself confirmed that he already finished healing before he ate that YRS.


He couldn't even stand up straight right before Naruto attacked him so he clearly wasn't 100%, his body was still covered with burn marks all over.


Cosmos said:


> People usually ignore this feat because they think Madara was already injured.


I didn't ignore it and obviously dodging a blindsided Limbo blitz is an insane feat as is pressuring a JJ in general, i just said he has nothing to bypass his defenses and/or regeneration.


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## Android (Apr 25, 2018)

Ghost Of The Uchiha said:


> He couldn't even stand up straight right before Naruto attacked him so he clearly wasn't 100%, his body was still covered with burn marks all over


Madara: "haven't I finished healing yet ? Is it why this is happening ? ...... No, his power suddenly increased!!"

Reactions: Winner 1


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## King Ramirez (Apr 25, 2018)

Ghost Of The Uchiha said:


> He couldn't even stand up straight right before Naruto attacked him so he clearly wasn't 100%, his body was still covered with burn marks all over.
> 
> I didn't ignore it and obviously dodging a blindsided Limbo blitz is an insane feat as is pressuring a JJ in general, i just said he has nothing to bypass his defenses and/or regeneration.


 Naruto clearly showed his superiority there. Madara's regeneration would be a problem yes, but Naruto can seal him and what defense of Madara's are you talking about? TSB's? lol, don't forget its main weakness which Naruto has "Senjutsu"


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## kayz (Apr 25, 2018)

King Ramirez said:


> Didn't Naruto already trash JJ Madara with 1 Rinnegan? so what's all this essay?


Wasn't that JUUBI-LESS Madara?


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## Buuhan (Apr 25, 2018)

Im pretty sure the Juubi>SPSM in terms of overall raw power. They are more less on a somewhat level playing field. The rinnegan made up the difference.


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## The Great One (Apr 26, 2018)

Madara only wins because of immortality.


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## Android (Apr 26, 2018)

kayz said:


> Wasn't that JUUBI-LESS Madara?


No. It was one Rinnegan JJ Madara.


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## Cliffiffillite44428 (Apr 26, 2018)

RSM has better reaction speed but lower footspeed/shunshin speed. Naruto's Tailed Beasts Shurikens and Shukaku Rasengan Sealer would destroy regeneration and Juubi Dama power. TSB is useless when it can be sealed. RSM>>>Juubi.


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## sabre320 (Apr 26, 2018)

We had in canon a fight where rsm naruto without the cloak stomped one eyed madara....he is faster much stronger to the point madara was psuhed against a wall by a casual punch pressured badly by his speed his limbo dodged. Also juubi jins arent immortal without shinju so after madara is lying there crippled by a yoton rasenshuriken he finished him off. What massive wankery from the juubidara fanboys is happening on this fforum when these fanboys will ignore canon,.


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## sabre320 (Apr 26, 2018)

Batzzaro29 said:


> Madara only wins because of immortality.


Juubi jins arent immortal jesus....madara nearly died from night gai.


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## sabre320 (Apr 26, 2018)

Sage light said:


> RSM has better reaction speed but lower footspeed/shunshin speed. Naruto's Tailed Beasts Shurikens and Shukaku Rasengan Sealer would destroy regeneration and Juubi Dama power. TSB is useless when it can be sealed. RSM>>>Juubi.


His base speed was so great that it pressured juubidara with rinnegan precog to the point where all he could do was block yet u say his shunshin is slower...


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## sabre320 (Apr 26, 2018)

Buuhan said:


> Im pretty sure the Juubi>SPSM in terms of overall raw power. They are more less on a somewhat level playing field. The rinnegan made up the difference.


We literally saw cloakless rsm naruto stomp madara and u say juubijin boost is greater wtf....even with the one rinnegan and a surprise limbo he was stomped.


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## sabre320 (Apr 26, 2018)

Cosmos said:


> To simply answer your question, Six Paths Jubi Coffin Seal > Six Paths Sage Mode.
> 
> On top of the tremendous boost in physical abilities you get from the Jubi Coffin Seal, you also get:
> - Super healing/regeneration powers.
> ...



We saw that narutos cloakless spsm was infact superior,.... if it gives you parameters where u can stomp a much superior jinchuriki then juubito who had all of the above then you know its not much of a debate. Naruto also gets the guodama super healing and attacks can casually cleave the shinju. The boosts from the seal directly from hagoromo are far superior to the yin or yang boosts from the juubi.


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## sabre320 (Apr 26, 2018)

Ghost Of The Uchiha said:


> He never trashed him, his punch got blocked and his YRS got tanked.
> Madara also had lost all his TSB bar his staff in the Gai fight.
> Madara wins because Naruto has nothing to kill him with considering what his body has tanked head on (YRS, Yagai and Sekizo barrage), logically his defenses would be even better with a full TSB shield and V4.


Naruto also possesses the very same tsb.

He got outsped to the point he was only able to put up a guard, and was overpowered to the point he was pinned against the wall and the shinjus bark cracked.
Madara didnt tank shit stop with the wankery..he was damaged so badly he couldn't even regenerate via cellular damage and had to absorb the shinju to regenerate. Tanking means you are unphased from an attack madara was on his ass open to finishing blows. Guodamas couldnt even handle senjutsu attacks from pre rikudo naruto they are in noway handling senjutsu attacks boosted by rsm senjutsu. He is lacking the rinnegan here so goodluck with sussano. Also via scaling we know legged sussano can get busted by a few senpo frs so scale that to the rikudo versions of the characters where naruto received a greater boost and we are back to square one.

It would be best if you stop denying canon and stop with the fanfic the fight already happened in canon and Madara was trashed and only recovered via shinju.


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## sabre320 (Apr 26, 2018)

The easiest way to compare is to compare the bases of both fighters. Madara started with sm and one rinnegan and recieved a juubi boost on top. Naruto without his bijuu is just sm naruto who do you think is superior before the powerups...it would be a brutal stomp in madaras favor.. even without the rinnegan.

Now the boost naruto got allowed him to stomp one eyed juubidara even with madaras far far superior base should be easy to conclude which is the greater boost.


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## Ghost Of The Uchiha (Apr 26, 2018)

sabre320 said:


> Naruto also possesses the very same tsb.


Not in this form he doesn't.



sabre320 said:


> Madara didnt tank shit stop with the wankery..he was damaged so badly he couldn't even regenerate via cellular damage and had to absorb the shinju to regenerate.


Complete fanfic, nowhere stated or implied he couldn't regenerate, he got up the very next panel after tanking YRS.
Absorbing the Shinju had nothing to do with regenerating and everything to do with reuniting all chakra to himself as stated, not to mention he was gonna do it anyway since he needed it to cast IT.



sabre320 said:


> Guodamas couldnt even handle senjutsu attacks from pre rikudo naruto they are in noway handling senjutsu attacks boosted by rsm senjutsu



1 TSB tanked a BSM TBB + V3 enton arrow with a crack he has nothing to beat a full shield in base RSM.
Madara's body took on YRS head on and ended with a gush on his stomach, a full tsb shield has far superior durability to his body ergo nothing in his arsenal will bust it. 
He doesnt have rikudo senjutsu in base rsm he requires the 9 bijuu cloak to awaken that alongside tsb.



sabre320 said:


> Also via scaling we know legged sussano can get busted by a few senpo frs so scale that to the rikudo versions of the characters where naruto received a greater boost and we are back to square one.


Madara's V4 took a TBB from Full Kurama head on from a point-blank distance and laughed it off, so no, senpo frs wouldn't do jack to a jj amped version of that susanoo.

Sword of Nunoboko was implied to have ripped the ISO-Susanoo fusion to shreds had Obito's will not wavered, so Madara forms his own and one shots this kuramaless Naruto, that's all this battle amounts to.


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## Android (Apr 26, 2018)

Ghost Of The Uchiha said:


> after tanking YRS.


What's your definition of "tanking" ?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## sabre320 (Apr 26, 2018)

Ghost Of The Uchiha said:


> Not in this form he doesn't.
> 
> 
> Complete fanfic, nowhere stated or implied he couldn't regenerate, he got up the very next panel after tanking YRS.
> ...



Stop with the fanfic madara when hit with frs couldnt believe it and wondered how this happened , yet u have the gall to say he was in perfect condition.
The shinju caused him to heal and had vitality enough to turn him nearly immortal as stated and yet you say it has no purpose in healing wtf. Obito had his heart cut out and slashed in near 2 and absorbing the juubi healed him perfectly and u think absorbing the shinju didnt heal him .

The guodama shield in canon was broken by 9 bsm oodama rasengans and naruto does possess rikudo senjutsu in rsm wtf are you talking about u funny person its name is rikudo sage mode and is far far far ahead of simple bsm. There is no way the guodama shield is tanking a frs amped by rsm rikudo senjutsu.

That is not v4 and madara does not have access to it without his dojutsu. That was unstabilized version of ps and without both eyes the only version he has access to is his legged sussano he used against the bijuu which was destroyed by the bijuu tail slaps when amped by sm and rinnegan. He does even have the rinnegan and you give him the unstabilized version of ps wtf.

The sword of nunboku was all hype and has no feats it is made of guodama which is pathetically weak to senjutsu. At that time juubito was far far superior to bsm naruto yet his sussano amped iso sword beat it. Here naruto has the superior powerup amped by rikudo senjutsu a rikudo senjutsu amped frs cuts through the sword.

What you are relying on is fanfic what i have backing me is manga canon where a casual attack oneshotted said madara even with limbo which he wont have here. Naruto did not even use clones and can make thousands and can spam giant chou oodama rikudo amped rasenshuriken one incapacitated madara the barrage would vaporize him and his defenses.


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## Ghost Of The Uchiha (Apr 26, 2018)

sabre320 said:


> u funny person


Since i'm so funny i'll elaborate on some funny yet simple things that you can't seem to properly understand:

--RSM and rikudo senjutsu aren't the same, RSM is the mode Naruto awakened after receiving hago's gift signified by horizontal and vertical slits with no pigmentation around the eyes, while rikudo senjutsu is the power of the ten tails that he awakened after activating the 9-bijuu cloak and only THEN he manifested TSB, so the Naruto in this thread doesnt have it.

--He didn't need the Shinju to heal his body since he gets up immediately after and is shown to be fine while absorbing said tree.

--The reason he absorbed the God-Tree was to reunite all chakra to himself as stated, he also needed it for IT anyway.

--I only ever claimed this Madara would beat cloakless RSM naruto, full power Naruto with the 9-bijuu cloak defeats any Madara that doesn't have both eyes.

--TSB aren't weak to senjutsu, senjutsu is just the only thing that can affect them (well Madara's and Obito's anyway)

--Naruto's strongest shown attack in this mode is YRS which Madara took head on and it only left him with a small gush on his stomach, since a full tsb shield is far more durable than a JJ's body they tank it and everything else this Naruto has to offer no diff too.

--Hago's Nunoboko was implied to be a planet buster and Obito's  was implied to have ripped the ISO-Fusion to shreads had Obito's will not faltered, that's literally what happened since it was stated the sword's power depends on the user's will (Obito lost because he didn't believe in himself and his ideals not because his attack got overpowered), so  Madara skewers this avatar-less Naruto here and one shots with the sword (since avatar dura>>>Naruto's body dura).

Every single one of your points got addressed and debunked, so this is my last reply here.


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## sabre320 (Apr 26, 2018)

Ghost Of The Uchiha said:


> Since i'm so funny i'll elaborate on some funny yet simple things that you can't seem to properly understand:
> 
> --RSM and rikudo senjutsu aren't the same, RSM is the mode Naruto awakened after receiving hago's gift signified by horizontal and vertical slits with no pigmentation around the eyes, while rikudo senjutsu is the power of the ten tails that he awakened after activating the 9-bijuu cloak and only THEN he manifested TSB, so the Naruto in this thread doesnt have it.
> 
> ...


Keep living the fanfic brother.


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## kayz (Apr 27, 2018)

Cosmos said:


> No. It was one Rinnegan JJ Madara.


My mistake, I meant the JJ Madara before he absorbed the shinju.


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## King Ramirez (Apr 27, 2018)

Ghost Of The Uchiha said:


> RSM and rikudo senjutsu aren't the same, RSM is the mode Naruto awakened after receiving hago's gift signified by horizontal and vertical slits with no pigmentation around the eyes, while rikudo senjutsu is the power of the ten tails that he awakened after activating the 9-bijuu cloak and only THEN he manifested TSB, so the Naruto in this thread doesnt have it.


wtf? Naruto was already capable of using Rikudo Senjutsu before activating the cloak.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Serene Grace (Apr 27, 2018)

Ghost Of The Uchiha said:


> *RSM and rikudo senjutsu aren't the same*, RSM is the mode Naruto awakened after receiving hago's gift signified by horizontal and vertical slits with no pigmentation around the eyes, while rikudo senjutsu is the power of the ten tails that he awakened after activating the 9-bijuu cloak and only THEN he manifested TSB, so the Naruto in this thread doesnt have it.


Agree with the bold. The amount of times I see "Juubtio and Madara having RSM" is getting out of hand 

The only users of RSM are Asura and Naruto. RSM is the divine state directly granted by Hagoromo, RS is simply a heightened form of senjutsu used by 10 tail jins and those that manage to obtain Hago chakra/power

Though the rest makes no sense. He has RS by virtue of having RSM


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## Ghost Of The Uchiha (Apr 27, 2018)

Serene Grace said:


> Though the rest makes no sense. He has RS by virtue of having RSM


He has rikudo senjutsu by virtue of having chakra from all the tailed beasts, in fact if you notice it he only manifested TSB after activating the 9-Bijuu cloak.

Rikudo senjutsu is signified by the rinnegan symbol and the three rows of magatama behind the user's back and even while Madara commented on Naruto having this power Kishi focused on his back.
Couldn't find a pic of Naruto so i showed you Obito.



While as an adult he only has his standard Kurama cloak and it's without those characteristics on his back and he seemingly can't manifest TSB anymore.




Serene Grace said:


> RS is simply a heightened form of senjutsu used by 10 tail jins and those that manage to obtain Hago chakra/power



Quoted part is wrong, rinne tensei madara and rikudo sasuke both have Hago's chakra yet they don't have rikudo senjutsu.


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## Android (Apr 27, 2018)

Ghost Of The Uchiha said:


> He has rikudo senjutsu by virtue of having chakra from all the tailed beasts


Wrong.

The source of Naruto's RS is Hagoromo's Yang power. Naruto's RSM has nothing to do with any Biju.

Read the DB guys.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Ghost Of The Uchiha (Apr 27, 2018)

Cosmos said:


> Naruto's RSM has nothing to do with any Biju.


True his rikudo sage mode (the mode he used against Juubidara) derives from Hago's yang power.



Cosmos said:


> The source of Naruto's RS is Hagoromo's Yang power.


False, rikudo senjutsu is the power of the ten tails and is associated with TSB, things Naruto manifested and showed only after he tapped into the Bijuu's chakra and manifested his 9-Bijuu cloak.

Read what i said about the markings on his back, Kishi even put the focus on Naruto's back while Madara commented on Naruto having acquired rikudo senjutsu.
This is proven by Adult Naruto having a different marking on his back and not having TSB anymore.

Reactions: Disagree 2


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## King Ramirez (Apr 27, 2018)

I will say it again, Naruto was capable of using Rikudo Senjutsu before activating the cloak. If not what's the use of having a Rikudo Sage Mode without being able to use said techniques.

In Naruto's case RSM = gains the the ability to use Rikudo Senjutsu (tailed beasts chakra do not necessarily have to be activated).

Reactions: Agree 2


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## King Ramirez (Apr 27, 2018)

Ghost Of The Uchiha said:


> False, rikudo senjutsu is the power of the ten tails and is associated with TSB, things Naruto manifested and showed only after he tapped into the Bijuu's chakra and manifested his 9-Bijuu cloak.


Are you implying Hagoromo didn't have Six Paths Senjutsu before becoming the Juubi Jinchuriki? because I doubt it.  Wouldn't Six Paths Chakra + Senjutsu = Six Paths Senjutsu?
Why are you then saying it's the power of the Juubi only? Hagoromo also has that power on his own which he can grant to others; Ashura, Naruto. Unless you also want to tell me Ashura didn't have RS due to not possessing the chakra of the tailed beasts.
Hagoromo developed Six Paths Senjutsu on his own; His powerful chakra + Senjutsu = Six Paths Senjutsu, its as clear as day.


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## King Ramirez (Apr 27, 2018)

Ghost Of The Uchiha said:


> False, rikudo senjutsu is the power of the ten tails and is associated with TSB, things Naruto manifested and showed only after he tapped into the Bijuu's chakra and manifested his 9-Bijuu cloak.


I highly disagree with this. Where did you get this from? Read my comment above.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## King Ramirez (Apr 27, 2018)

Ghost Of The Uchiha said:


> rue his rikudo sage mode (the mode he used against Juubidara) derives from Hago's yang power.


And he can use Rikudo senjutsu in this mode without necessarily activating the tailed beasts chakra. Forget about the truth seeking orbs, the requirements for that are different.


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## Android (Apr 27, 2018)

Ghost Of The Uchiha said:


> False, rikudo senjutsu is the power of the ten tails and is associated with TSB, things Naruto manifested and showed only after he tapped into the Bijuu's chakra and manifested his 9-Bijuu cloak.


Individual bits of Biju chakra =\= Jubi chakra

Nowhere was it ever stated, hinted or implied that individual bits of Biju chakra can make you awaken the RS. Nowhere.

Only when the individual Biju chakra is sealed into the Gedo Mazo then sealed with the Jubi coffin seal you awaken the RS.

Naruto doesn't have the GM or the Jubi coffin seal.

The source of his RS is Hagoromo's Yang power.

Makes perfect sense since Hagoromo and Hamura both had the TSB since before even sealing the Jubi

Reactions: Agree 1


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## King Ramirez (Apr 27, 2018)

King Ramirez said:


> Are you implying Hagoromo didn't have Six Paths Senjutsu before becoming the Juubi Jinchuriki? because I doubt it.  Wouldn't Six Paths Chakra + Senjutsu = Six Paths Senjutsu?
> Why are you then saying it's the power of the Juubi only? Hagoromo also has that power on his own which he can grant to others; Ashura, Naruto. Unless you also want to tell me Ashura didn't have RS due to not possessing the chakra of the tailed beasts.





Cosmos said:


> Individual bits of Biju chakra =\= Jubi chakra
> 
> Nowhere was it ever stated, hinted or implied that individual bits of Biju chakra can make you awaken the RS. Nowhere.
> 
> ...


 Absolutely!! Hagoromo specifically had Six Paths Senjutsu and the TSB before sealing the Juubi.


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## Ghost Of The Uchiha (Apr 27, 2018)

King Ramirez said:


> Are you implying Hagoromo didn't have Six Paths Senjutsu before becoming the Juubi Jinchuriki? because I doubt it. Wouldn't Six Paths Chakra + Senjutsu = Six Paths Senjutsu?


He did but he got his chakra directly from Kaguya who was the embodiment of the Juubi and the Shinju, can't really compare anyone else to him.



King Ramirez said:


> Unless you also want to tell me Ashura didn't have RS due to not possessing the chakra of the tailed beasts.


Ashura was shown with a bijuu like avatar in the manga, so he probably did have it but hard to say since he's featless.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Architect (Apr 27, 2018)

JJ mode indeed.


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## Ghost Of The Uchiha (Apr 27, 2018)

Cosmos said:


> Makes perfect sense since Hagoromo and Hamura both had the TSB since before even sealing the Jubi


They got their chakra directly from Kaguya that's why i think they could do that since she is the embodiment of the Shinju and the Juubi.
Why does Adult Naruto manifest a different cloak without the markings symbolizing rikudo senjustu and TSB then? How would you explain that.


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## Android (Apr 27, 2018)

Ghost Of The Uchiha said:


> They got their chakra directly from Kaguya that's why i think they could do that since she is the embodiment of the Shinju and the Juubi.


And Hagoromo passed down his chakra (thus his RS) to Naruto. Pretty simple.

Hell, it's even called "Rikūdo Senjutsu Mode". What other evidence do you need ?



Ghost Of The Uchiha said:


> Why does Adult Naruto manifest a different cloak without the markings symbolizing rikudo senjustu and TSB then? How would you explain


Kishi changes Naruto's cloak design like 1738484868 times.

I wouldn't put too much weight on that.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## King Ramirez (Apr 27, 2018)

Cosmos said:


> And Hagoromo passed down his chakra (thus his RS) to Naruto. Pretty simple.


And he is able to grant this "Six Paths Senjutsu" to others. Don't you get it?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Android (Apr 27, 2018)

King Ramirez said:


> And he is able to grant this "Six Paths Senjutsu" to others. Don't you get it?



Regarding the TSB, IIRC (I can't find the source though), an SP animator said that in Boruto movie they needed to make a flashy fast Taijutsu scene between Naruto, Sasuke and Momoshiki. And drawing multiple TSBs following Naruto in that scene was simply not a good idea, so they removed them.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## DaVizWiz (Apr 27, 2018)

Cosmos said:


> People usually ignore this feat because they think Madara was already injured.
> But Madara himself confirmed that he already finished healing before he ate that YRS.


When did Madara use Juubidama or Nunoboko on SPSM Naruto? How about Ningendō or Shinra Tensei?

Or are we ignoring the fact that Madara toyed with everyone he fought while in that mode, *and still beat everyone, sans Sasuke. *

By definition becoming the Juubi Jinchuriki puts you on an equal plane with Hagoromo, while SPSM is only half of his power. It's also a stepping stone for access to the Shinju, which can be absorbed for greater individual empowerment, Complete Immortality, and Infinite Tsukuyomi which one panels everyone in the universe if exposed. 

SPSM does not even remotely compare.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Android (Apr 27, 2018)

DaVizWiz said:


> When did Madara use Juubidama or Nunoboko on SPSM Naruto? How about Ningendō or Shinra Tensei?


It's not like Naruto went all out either.

No cloak
No TSBs
No Kurama Avatar
No Avatar clones
No Ashura mode 



DaVizWiz said:


> and still beat everyone, sans Sasuke.


That's ....... Post Shinju absorption double Rinnegan Rinne Sharingan JJ Madara

Not pre Shinju absorption one-eye JJ Madara whose ass was kicked by cloak-less RSM Naruto.


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## DaVizWiz (Apr 27, 2018)

Cosmos said:


> It's not like Naruto went all out either.
> 
> *No cloak*
> No TSBs
> ...


These abilities you noted have nothing to do with SPSM.

He was in SPSM here.

The YFRS also has nothing to do with SPSM. That's a bijuu KG he borrowed from bijuu chakra put inside him by Hagoromo, and enhanced FRS with. That feature alone is invalid.

Hagoromo had SPSM before the Juubi and Bijuu were even created.

Judara not using his most dangerous abilities, and Naruto throwing a technique enhanced by chakra that had nothing to do with SPSM is a poor example of SPSM Naruto somehow "owning" Judara.

Show me SPSM Naruto's counter to successive CST, followed by Juubidama spam, and I'll show you how pigs fly.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## Android (Apr 27, 2018)

DaVizWiz said:


> These abilities you noted have nothing to do with SPSM


Right, I completely forgot about OP's stipulation.

Then you also shouldn't be talking about Madara's Rinnegan techniques.

Juubidama's require prep and time Madara didn't have since he was getting overwhelmed.

Also, restricting YRS changes nothing.

As shown when Naruto used the Super Biju Rasenshuriken barrage, all Rasenshurikens produced the same explosion size. They were equal in output. 

Naruto throws an Odama RS and Madara ends up on his ass again.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## DaVizWiz (Apr 27, 2018)

Cosmos said:


> Right, I completely forgot about OP's stipulation.
> 
> Then you also shouldn't be talking about Madara's Rinnegan techniques.
> 
> ...


In order to become a Juubi Jinchuriki you need the Rinnegan.

It's boosts are directly associated with the Rinnegan. Therefore it is not restricted. 



> Super *Biju* Rasenshuriken barrage


This is not a SPSM ability.


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## King Ramirez (Apr 27, 2018)

Cosmos said:


> Right, I completely forgot about OP's stipulation.
> 
> Then you also shouldn't be talking about Madara's Rinnegan techniques.
> 
> ...


Yeah, without the Rinnegan Madara gets even worse treatment.


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## Serene Grace (Apr 27, 2018)

Cosmos said:


> Hell, it's even called "Rikūdo Senjutsu Mode". What other evidence do you need ?


Rikudo Sage can't manipulate or use Rikudo senjutsu 



Ghost Of The Uchiha said:


> He has rikudo senjutsu by virtue of having chakra from all the tailed beasts, in fact if you notice it he only manifested TSB after activating the 9-Bijuu cloak.
> 
> Rikudo senjutsu is signified by the rinnegan symbol and the three rows of magatama behind the user's back and even while Madara commented on Naruto having this power Kishi focused on his back.
> Couldn't find a pic of Naruto so i showed you Obito.


What? The DB outright says Naruto having Rikudo senjutsu chakra was by virtue of having RSM 

Though you'd think it would be common sense that a *Rikudo* *Sage*, can use *Rikudo* *senjutsu*



Ghost Of The Uchiha said:


> Quoted part is wrong, rinne tensei madara and rikudo sasuke both have Hago's chakra yet they don't have rikudo senjutsu.


*Hago's power*

Reactions: Agree 2


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## King Ramirez (Apr 27, 2018)

DaVizWiz said:


> In order to become a Juubi Jinchuriki you need the Rinnegan.


If you're saying this then you shouldn't be here. I clearly said "hypothetical" in the OP so why are you bringing in this logic?


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## Ghost Of The Uchiha (Apr 27, 2018)

Cosmos said:


> Juubidama's require prep and time Madara didn't have since he was getting overwhelmed.
> 
> Also, restricting YRS changes nothing.



For the purposes of this fight Madara forms Nunoboko and one shots since Obito's sword was implied to have ripped the ISO-Susanoo to shreds had Obito's will not wavered, so this Kurama-less Naruto gets dismantled simple as that since his body can't be more durable than his avatar, rikudo buff or not.


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## Ghost Of The Uchiha (Apr 27, 2018)

King Ramirez said:


> If you're saying this then you shouldn't be here. I clearly said "hypothetical" in the OP so why are you bringing in this logic?


Nunoboko one-shots with or without the Rinnegan.


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## King Ramirez (Apr 27, 2018)

Ghost Of The Uchiha said:


> Nunoboko one-shots with or without the Rinnegan.


What? Nunoboko that was overpowered by BSM Naruto + EMS Sasuke's senjutsu enhanced sword? And we're talking about a version of Naruto that is far superior with a superior form of Senjutsu here. Madara gets the same treatment as his first encounter with RSM Naruto.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## DaVizWiz (Apr 27, 2018)

King Ramirez said:


> If you're saying this then you shouldn't be here. I clearly said "hypothetical" in the OP so why are you bringing in this logic?


You cannot be a Jinchuriki of the 10 tails without a Rinnegan.

The beast itself has a Rinnesharingan, which you get from it after you become it's Jinchuriki.

It's as much a Dojutsu Boost as it is a Bodily Boost.

Stop restricting the Jinchuriki's boosts because you want Naruto to be stronger.


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## King Ramirez (Apr 27, 2018)

DaVizWiz said:


> You cannot be a Jinchuriki of the 10 tails without a Rinnegan.
> 
> The beast itself has a Rinnesharingan, which you get from it after you become it's Jinchuriki.
> 
> ...


It's no use to argue with people like you. I didn't restrict the Rinnegan because I want Naruto to be stronger. I only wanted to know which boost is bigger, being the Ten Tails Jinchuriki or having RSM?
However seeing as you don't get it, no more arguing with you, I rest my case.


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## Ghost Of The Uchiha (Apr 27, 2018)

King Ramirez said:


> What? Nunoboko that was overpowered by BSM Naruto + EMS Sasuke's senjutsu enhanced sword?



Keep ignoring context and what was said on panel, that only happened because its strength depended on the user's will and Obito's wavered, Hago's was implied to be a planet buster, strong willed Madara one shots here, RSM being stronger means nothing since his body is far less durable than PS-KURAMA that was implied to get destroyed if Obito didn't have doubts about himself. 

Also why make a thread with a preformed opinion and then give neg ratings to anyone who argues otherwise, there's no purpose like that,you should generate discussion not pick on anyone who disagrees with you.


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## King Ramirez (Apr 27, 2018)

Ghost Of The Uchiha said:


> Keep ignoring context and what was said on panel, that only happened because its strength depended on the user's will and Obito's wavered, Hago's was implied to be a planet buster, strong willed Madara one shots here, RSM being stronger means nothing since his body is far less durable than PS-KURAMA that was implied to get destroyed if Obito didn't have doubts about himself.
> 
> Also why make a thread with a preformed opinion and then give neg ratings to anyone who argues otherwise, there's no purpose like that,you should generate discussion not pick on anyone who disagrees with you.


Look at all my comments, you will notice I only started disagreeing when you made this statement "Naruto isn't able to use RS without the tailed beasts chakra". This is quite false and am forced to prove you wrong.


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## Android (Apr 27, 2018)

DaVizWiz said:


> In order to become a Juubi Jinchuriki you need the Rinnegan.
> 
> It's boosts are directly associated with the Rinnegan. Therefore it is not restricted.





King Ramirez said:


> *Restrictions:* Madara doesn't have his Rinnegan


This is a hypothetical JJ Madara with no Rinnegan. The Manga's rule is irrelevant here.



DaVizWiz said:


> This is not a SPSM ability.


Bruh .... Come'on
Read my post again because I never said Naruto would use the super Biju RS barrage.


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## Android (Apr 27, 2018)

Ghost Of The Uchiha said:


> For the purposes of this fight Madara forms Nunoboko and one shots


Like he did in the manga ? Oh wait he got his ass smoked.

Sword of Nonoboko is all hype, we don't know the extent of its power.


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## Android (Apr 27, 2018)

Last post for tonight since I'm sleepy AF.

Madara was being physically manhandled by naruto he had to use his (according to him) fastest technique (Limbo) to survive. Which implies he was incapable of physically competing with the boy. You're kidding yourselves if you think Madara could've just bust out Jubidama or SoN anytime he wanted. He simply could not because he was being physically overwhelmed.

If you're going to base your argument on a featless sword then we're gonna have to agree to disagree, but manga portrayal was pretty obvious (RSM Naruto > 1 Rinnegan JJ Madara pre Shinju absorption)

Also, concession accepted regarding the Rikudo Senjutsu point.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## DaVizWiz (Apr 28, 2018)

King Ramirez said:


> It's no use to argue with people like you. I didn't restrict the Rinnegan because I want Naruto to be stronger. I only wanted to know which boost is bigger, being the Ten Tails Jinchuriki or having RSM?
> However seeing as you don't get it, no more arguing with you, I rest my case.


The very fact you made this thread indicates you want him to be stronger, any logical debater understood after reading the manga that being the Jinchuriki of the Juubi is well beyond the boosts of any Sage Mode.

Not even taking the physical boosts into consideration like the speed, durability and regeneration, the boosts associated with Rikudo Senjutsu, the access to *Juubidama and Infinite Tsukuyomi* alone makes the boost superior, you can wipe out continents in seconds and defeat everyone in the world in less than 10 seconds, no power bar Kaguya's dimensional TSB competes.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Ghost Of The Uchiha (Apr 28, 2018)

Anybody arguing Nunoboko is featless needs to read the manga again, it was stated that Hago reshaped the world with his sword and the manga flat-out implied that PS-Kurama fusion would have been annihilated had Obito's will not wavered (the sword's power was stated to be dependent on the user's will), Naruto's body obviously is far less durable than Kurama coated by PS armor so Madara forms his own and naruto gets one-shot here.

Naruto pressured Madara when he had just been beaten within an inch of his life and had lost all his TSB bar his staff in the Gai fight, that's why he couldn't manifest the sword.


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## Ghost Of The Uchiha (Apr 28, 2018)

Cosmos said:


> If you're going to base your argument on a featless sword then we're gonna have to agree to disagree, but manga portrayal was pretty obvious (RSM Naruto > 1 Rinnegan JJ Madara pre Shinju absorption)


Madara was out of TSB that's why he couldn't manifest the sword, he was portrayed as capable of pressuring a JJ and being his physical equal (dura not withstanding) not defeating him, taking into account his most powerful abilities(Nunoboko and Quad Juubidama)  which he can't counter period, then Madara wins.

Manga portrayal is also pretty clear on Naruto needing Sasuke and the seals to even stand a chance against full power Madara yet that didn't stop you, sabre, ramirez  and co from saying Adult Naruto would destroy him.



Cosmos said:


> Non rusty Adult Naruto beats the living shit out of him. His base Rasengan was turning Outsutsuki aliens into atoms after sending them back to space. Madara becomes a space dust.



Literally your thoughts on the matter.


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