# Supergod Hercules enters the Saint Seiya verse (Episode G)



## mali (Jun 27, 2012)

He fights each Titan in order of appearance in the series (unsealed) and gets healed after every fight, who does he stop at (if at all)?

I'd include the Gold Saints but I doubt they would be much against supergod Hercules (maybe Leo? Idk to be honest seeing as my knowledge on saint seiya is far from extensive).


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## DestinyDestroyer (Jun 27, 2012)

Is SuperHercules the one who fought Amatsu-Mikaboshi (The Chaos King)?


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## mali (Jun 27, 2012)

Yep, correcta mundo.


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## DestinyDestroyer (Jun 27, 2012)

Didn't he defeated the Chaos King, who is supposed to be a multiversal being?

If so, then he clears this with ease


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## mali (Jun 27, 2012)

He had help and he never would have outmatched Mikaboshi in pure power.


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## DestinyDestroyer (Jun 27, 2012)

That makes him Universe-level+, right?


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## Fang (Jun 27, 2012)

That thing was a super Skyfather class being. Doesn't match the output of full out Olympians or Titans.


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## mali (Jun 27, 2012)

Fang said:


> That thing was a super Skyfather class being. Doesn't match the output of full out Olympians or Titans.



Really? I could have sworn the Titans unsealed were universal (and so is supa Herc).

Unless I've overlooked universal+ feats of unsealed Titans?


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## Fang (Jun 27, 2012)

Unsealed Titans can make universes.

Makubishi wasn't even pushing, at best, a cube beings output. Granted that version of Herc would probably match Rune King Thor but still lower.


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## mali (Jun 27, 2012)

Fang said:


> Unsealed Titans can make universes.
> 
> Makubishi wasn't even pushing, at best, a cube beings output. Granted that version of Herc would probably match Rune King Thor but still lower.



Not really.

Mikaboshi at his peak consumed 98.76% of the multiverse (as stated by Amaedus Cho and there's no reason why we should disregard Cho's statement seeing as Eternity explaining that the Chaos King is threat to even him makes this feat more than plausible and plus the fact that the Chaos King is an aspect of Oblivion).

The Chaos King taking multiple *pantheons* out before reaching his peak (remember that each of these pantheons have their respective skyfathers) alone should put him at Cube being level.

And let's not forget him pwning Nightmare in his own realm while being nowhere near full power.

Herc holding his own for abit against a person of that level puts him *far* above Rune King Thor.


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## Fang (Jun 27, 2012)

Mali said:


> Not really.



Yes really.



> Mikaboshi at his peak consumed 98.76% of the multiverse (as stated by Amaedus Cho and there's no reason why we should disregard Cho's statement seeing as Eternity explaining that the Chaos King is threat to even him makes this feat more than plausible and plus the fact that the Chaos King is an aspect of Oblivion).



He's a threat to Eternity because he consumes reality. That's what Eternity represents. And that's still not that same as Multi-Eternity himself at full power, so not really up there. Its the same as Dormammu entering inside Eternity and finding the nexus of multiverses and dimensions that make up reality and harnessing that power.

Exploiting that weakness doesn't make him an actual abstract level being in power.



> The Chaos King taking multiple *pantheons* out before reaching his peak (remember that each of these pantheons have their respective skyfathers) alone should put him at Cube being level.



No it doesn't.



> And let's not forget him pwning Nightmare in his own realm while being nowhere near full power.



Which is the only place where Nightmare is impressive in. And he's still not even a top tier Skyfather entity unlike Odin or Zeus. 



> Herc holding his own for abit against a person of that level puts him *far* above Rune King Thor.



Rune King Thor broke the cycle of Ragnarok and created pocket universes. And that's something massively depowered Titans can do while having two Primordial entities weaken them with the pressure of Tartarus their own realm and influencing events in separate universes at the same time.

Not seeing it.


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## mali (Jun 27, 2012)

Fang said:


> Yes really.
> 
> 
> 
> He's a threat to Eternity because he consumes reality. That's what Eternity represents.



What's your point? Are yu implying that he wouldn't be able to consume the titans?



> And that's still not that same as Multi-Eternity himself at full power, so not really up there. Its the same as Dormammu entering inside Eternity and finding the nexus of multiverses and dimensions that make up reality and harnessing that power.



Again, I don't get what your trying to get at. CK consumed most of the multiverse and in turn, Eternity. He didnt use Eternitys power if that's what your trying to get at.



> Exploiting that weakness doesn't make him an actual abstract level being in power.



CK didn't delve inside Eternity like Dormamu did (if that's what your getting at)



> No it doesn't.



Yes it does, taking out multiple skyfathers while not even at full power that is.



> Which is the only place where Nightmare is impressive in. And he's still not even a top tier Skyfather entity unlike Odin or Zeus.



I never said he was skyfather level (but he doesn't pale in comparison), I wanted to highlight the fact that a nowhere near full power CK could take a person of that level in their own realm.


> Rune King Thor broke the cycle of Ragnarok and created pocket universes. And that's something massively depowered Titans can do while having two Primordial entities weaken them with the pressure of Tartarus their own realm and influencing events in separate universes at the same time.



>How exactly do you quantify breaking the cycle of Ragnarok??
>So what does that make unsealed Titans?


I'm on a mobile so expect late replies.


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## Fang (Jun 27, 2012)

Mali said:


> What's your point? Are yu implying that he wouldn't be able to consume the titans?



My point is pretty clear cut. If you threaten or destroy reality, it affects Eternity directly or indirectly, thus weakening. Thus why he's recongized as a threat by Eternity in turn in the first place.



> Again, I don't get what your trying to get at. CK consumed most of the multiverse and in turn, Eternity. He didnt use Eternitys power if that's what your trying to get at.



My argument is made clear in the above rebuttal. 



> CK didn't delve inside Eternity like Dormamu did (if that's what your getting at)



Not my point.



> Yes it does, taking out multiple skyfathers while not even at full power that is.



No it doesn't. Not unless you can magically quantify each of those beings in every single Earth-bound pantheon to be around Forsung's, the other Enchanters, Odin, Zeus, Thor's or Loki's level.

And Marvel has hardly explored their own Skyfathers and related pantheons outside of the Greek and Nordic ones and Vishnu.



> I never said he was skyfather level (but he doesn't pale in comparison), I wanted to highlight the fact that a nowhere near full power CK could take a person of that level in their own realm.



Two-sealed Titans > Skyfathers.

One-sealed Titans > Two-sealed Titans.

Full power Titans = multi-dimensional influencing beings who can create and destroy universes, command and manipulate matter, and even affect other universes outside of their own.

He's not consuming shit.



> >How exactly do you quantify breaking the cycle of Ragnarok??
> >So what does that make unsealed Titans?



>Parroting

If you can't even figure out why Thor fucking over the cycle of Ragnarok means then there isn't a point in going further in this.


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## Will Smith (Jun 27, 2012)

Herc wins.



Fang said:


> Granted that version of Herc would probably match Rune King Thor but still lower.



That version of Herc is easily above RKT.


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## mali (Jun 28, 2012)

Looking at your argument and info given about the Titans, its obvious Herc has no chance so let's replace him with Mikaboshi.



Fang said:


> My point is pretty clear cut. If you threaten or destroy reality, it affects Eternity directly or indirectly, thus weakening. Thus why he's recongized as a threat by Eternity in turn in the first place.



Yea okay I'm not gonna pretend to understand what your getting at, but the fact of the matter is that CK spread and consumed most of the multiverse (not directly Eternity, but the multiverse its self). 

How would the Titans resist a being of that level?



> My argument is made clear in the above rebuttal.



If you say so.




> No it doesn't. Not unless you can magically quantify each of those beings in every single Earth-bound pantheon to be around Forsung's, the other Enchanters, Odin, Zeus, Thor's or Loki's level.
> 
> And Marvel has hardly explored their own Skyfathers and related pantheons outside of the Greek and Nordic ones and Vishnu.



True. I conceed on this point.



> Two-sealed Titans > Skyfathers.
> 
> One-sealed Titans > Two-sealed Titans.
> 
> ...



Lol wut. 

Unlike the Titans, the CK can affect and consume all dimensions/universes (as long as they have matter), be it nether world or the dimensions of other being such as the Nightmares and the pantheons.

The only way the Titans ability to make there own universes would help them beat CK is by them making a universe with virtually NO matter in it and then forcing the CK into that unverse (basically what the God Squad did to defeat the CK).

And I'd like to see scans of Titans creating their own universes,just to be sure.




> >Parroting
> 
> If you can't even figure out why Thor fucking over the cycle of Ragnarok means then there isn't a point in going further in this.



There's no point carrying this part of the debate on seeing as Herc is out of the debate.


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## Fang (Jun 28, 2012)

Mali said:


> Looking at your argument and info given about the Titans, its obvious Herc has no chance so let's replace him with Mikaboshi.



K.



> Yea okay I'm not gonna pretend to understand what your getting at, but the fact of the matter is that CK spread and consumed most of the multiverse (not directly Eternity, but the multiverse its self).



That in and of itself doesn't really mean much because the entirety of it was him getting into space and dealing with other cosmic/skyfather pantheons after the Skrull's Secret Invasion arc.  That's how he became the King Chaos, so its not even his normal power set that let him become that way till he started eating other pantheons.



> How would the Titans resist a being of that level?



A bit of a no limits argument seeing as he fought Skyfather beings and lower and the fact that he couldn't one-shot and had problems with a powered up Herc (even admitting others were helping him fight like the Gods Squad) who still doesn't touch Cube being in power is likely its not happening to them.




> If you say so.



I do.




> Lol wut.
> 
> Unlike the Titans, the CK can affect and consume all dimensions/universes (as long as they have matter), be it nether world or the dimensions of other being such as the Nightmares and the pantheons.



Except that eating matter and reality isn't the Titans power unlike Makaboshi and that really has nothing to do with their power-set. Iapetos could create rifts that were larger then dimensions populated with stars and galaxies with casual swings of his arm, fucking Aries Mu erased that shit with his strongest technique casually.

That attack wouldn't have an effect on one-sealed Titan much less them at their peak. Your comparing apples and oranges here.



> The only way the Titans ability to make there own universes would help them beat CK is by them making a universe with virtually NO matter in it and then forcing the CK into that unverse (basically what the God Squad did to defeat the CK).



Except that we know Titans can make universes, planets, stars, even with the memory seal and the Primordial Gods, Pontus and Gaia were decreasing their usage of the Divine Cosmos and Dunamis. The latter which is specifically allowing them beyond atomic control and manipulation of matter in all its forms.

And a raging Iapetos temporarily going insane at his wife's death busted a planet with "less than a thought", so yeah I doubt that.



> And I'd like to see scans of Titans creating their own universes,just to be sure.



First off we're all aware of Saint Seiya feats, so that's a pointless demand to make. Two, using a laptop here myself and not my main computer so  I don't have the scans on me. Three, Apollo rebooted the entire universe with a handwave in Heaven's Overture.

Four: Hades/Zeus/Posideon were among the chief Olympians fighting against their Titan counterparts. The same Hades who can create multiple dimensions and even have Hell itself larger then the real universe, not too mention Elysion itself. Titans have shown universe creation, and destruction, seeing as both Hades and Iapetos's deaths had their universes collapse and implode in on themselves and that's with their memories being fucked up and warped by Mnemosyne.

And then there is Mnemosyne who can mind-fuck all the other Titans and manipulate their memories, including Cronos himself. As well as steal the powers of other Titans like Dark Lightning Coeus' Keruanos which can one shot Primordial Gods even above him or harm the Titans and kill them, regardless of their immortality, regeneration abilities, and reality warping and control of their souls and spirits.

He's not clearing it either.


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## Will Smith (Jun 28, 2012)

Chaos King stomps.




Mali said:


> let's replace him with Mikaboshi.



You should ask a mod to change the title of this thread then.


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## Fang (Jun 28, 2012)

No, he doesn't. These aren't pussy Skyfathers, these are beings who match or in some cases make genuine Cube level beings pale in comparison. Twelve universe class, multi-dimensional reality warping plus Pontus whose stronger then all of them barring full power, unsealed Cronos and Gaia herself.

Gold Saints range from low-herald to Skyfather-class themselves. Mid-tier, Aries Mu, can erase entire dimensions (the proper Japanese translation and Iapetos' own power indicates one of Iapetos rifts was a pocket universe of itself), Saga's Galaxian Explosion can blow up galaxies, Shaka has become back and reincarnated himself from a focused Big Bang attack.

Took two Gold Saints, one mid-tier and one high-tier to beat one of the weakest ones who was sealed in power, being effected by the pressure of Tartarus, and not too mention the influence of Pontus and Gaia's own power.

He's not soloing shit.


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## Will Smith (Jun 28, 2012)

Fang said:


> -snip-



You said that you don't have your laptop and can't provide feats at the moment. I'll hold you to every feat you just listed when you're ready.


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## Fang (Jun 28, 2012)

Don't care, everyone and their mother whose a regular in the OBD is aware of Saint Seiya feats from the Gold Saints, Bronze Saints, Titans, Primordials, and Olympians. Trillions of times FTL, dimension destroying, galaxy busting, universe destruction and creation, multi-dimensional influence, time manipulation, space manipulation, etc.

Your barking up the wrong tree if you think the burden of proof is on my end when those scans have been posted dozens of times in hundreds of different threads at this point. So go cry me a river.


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## Will Smith (Jun 28, 2012)

Burden of proof is on you since you made the claim champ. *Everyone knows* isn't an argument.


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## Fang (Jun 28, 2012)

Nah, not for something as tedious as making an argument akin to claiming I have to prove Force-Users use telepathy when it comes to high tiers feats in Saint Seiya.

Again, cry me a river. Especially since I haven't seen a damn feat from anything involving Makuboshi including any scans being posted. Once more, stop trying to shift the burden of proof to me on something trivial that's already known.

So here's the turnabout: stop with the no limits arguments and irrational claims of me needing to post scans of the obvious.


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## Will Smith (Jun 28, 2012)

Fang said:


> Nah, not for something as tedious as making an argument akin to claiming I have to prove Force-Users use telepathy when it comes to high tiers feats in Saint Seiya.



You just stated that everyone knows of these feats. If that's the case then finding scans should be easy. This is just a cop out on your part.


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## Fang (Jun 28, 2012)

Sorry, I already explained I'm using a fucking laptop. So once more, cry me a river. Let me explain how asinine your arguments are:

What your demanding is for someone to prove Luke Skywalker or top tier Force-Users can use telepathy or high tiers in DBZ can bust planets via scans. Its inane and stupid, and the double irony is you haven't added jackshit all to this discussion except throw one-liners claiming Herc or Makuboshi stomps. That includes you demanding scans while not posting shit.

So, your done here, dupe kun.

And for fuck's sake here's the Spanish version stating there are hundreds of billions of galaxies and quesars between Makai and Elysion in Hades' personal universe as well as numerous "black spots"/ along side that. The same dimension itself has each level and area of Makai being light-years apart.



Yeah your done.


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## mali (Jun 28, 2012)

Fang said:


> K.
> 
> 
> 
> That in and of itself doesn't really mean much because the entirety of it was him getting into space and dealing with other cosmic/skyfather pantheons after the Skrull's Secret Invasion arc.  That's how he became the King Chaos, so its not even his normal power set that let him become that way till he started eating other pantheons.



IIRC the general OBD concensus is that a character always fights at full power, unless stated otherwise by the OP. CK's powers at its bare bones is to consume creation making everything his (and him being the void in turn makes everything consumed by him a void) and the powers of the beings he consumes  become his own power (an example of this is when he kills Zues and then beats Galactus with Zeus's body and by extention, Zeus powers). Another example would be when CK used Nightmares powers to K.O most of earths hereos:



So we'll be using CK at the zenith of his power.

Also, CK is an aspect of a concept (Oblivion) and so does not have an actual physical form (he represents the void). While his shell/avatar was fighting the heroes, his non-corpreal being was engulfing the multiverse, celestial body by celestial body.



> A bit of a no limits argument seeing as he fought Skyfather beings and lower



He had no problem what so ever with them (and he pwned Zeus without being at full power)



> and the fact that he couldn't one-shot and had problems with a powered up Herc (even admitting others were helping him fight like the Gods Squad) who still doesn't touch Cube being in power is likely its not happening to them.



That wasnt your normal amped up Herc, that was Herc powered up by the Primordial Goddes, Gae. Gae gave birth to all skyfathers (yup that includes the ones that you already mentioned). Plus the fact that you your self admitted he was Rune King Thor level with his initial power up. Here's a scane on Gae:






> Except that eating matter and reality isn't the Titans power unlike Makaboshi and that really has nothing to do with their power-set. Iapetos could create rifts that were larger then dimensions populated with stars and galaxies with casual swings of his arm, fucking Aries Mu erased that shit with his strongest technique casually.



Again, how does that help against CK? All that's doing is basically giving the firee more wood plus oxygen.



> That attack wouldn't have an effect on one-sealed Titan much less them at their peak. Your comparing apples and oranges here.



How so?



> Except that we know Titans can make universes, planets, stars, even with the memory seal and the Primordial Gods, Pontus and Gaia were decreasing their usage of the Divine Cosmos and Dunamis. The latter which is specifically allowing them beyond atomic control and manipulation of matter in all its forms.



Again, how does this help against CK?



> And a raging Iapetos temporarily going insane at his wife's death busted a planet with "less than a thought", so yeah I doubt that.



Why would you even mention this -_-



> First off we're all aware of Saint Seiya feats, so that's a pointless demand to make. Two, using a laptop here myself and not my main computer so  I don't have the scans on me. Three, Apollo rebooted the entire universe with a handwave in Heaven's Overture.
> 
> Four: Hades/Zeus/Posideon were among the chief Olympians fighting against their Titan counterparts. The same Hades who can create multiple dimensions and even have Hell itself larger then the real universe, not too mention Elysion itself. Titans have shown universe creation, and destruction, seeing as both Hades and Iapetos's deaths had their universes collapse and implode in on themselves and that's with their memories being fucked up and warped by Mnemosyne.
> 
> And then there is Mnemosyne who can mind-fuck all the other Titans and manipulate their memories, including Cronos himself. As well as steal the powers of other Titans like Dark Lightning Coeus' Keruanos which can one shot Primordial Gods even above him or harm the Titans and kill them, regardless of their immortality, regeneration abilities, and reality warping and control of their souls and spirits.



So its mostly powerscaling off Olympian gods which the Titans are a match to?(Not that the powerscaling isn't invalid or anything).

And I'd like to find out how the Titans actually damage CK seeing as last I checked, he was basically a concept at his strongest.




> He's not clearing it either.



I beg to differ


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## Fang (Jun 28, 2012)

Mali said:


> IIRC the general OBD concensus is that a character always fights at full power, unless stated otherwise by the OP. CK's powers at its bare bones is to consume creation making everything his (and him being the void in turn makes everything consumed by him a void) and the powers of the beings he consumes  become his own power (an example of this is when he kills Zues and then beats Galactus with Zeus's body and by extention, Zeus powers). Another example would be when CK used Nightmares powers to K.O most of earths hereos:



So what?



> So we'll be using CK at the zenith of his power.



So what?



> Also, CK is an aspect of a concept (Oblivion) and so does not have an actual physical form (he represents the void). While his shell/avatar was fighting the heroes, his non-corpreal being was engulfing the multiverse, celestial body by celestial body.



So what? Just an aspect, exactly, a small fragment. Non-corporeality wouldn't bother lowest Gold Saint much less Titans or Olympians. Sagittarius Aiolos soloed Typhoon, the embodiment of destruction, he also resealed a portion of Ebony Hyperion while the latter was trying to manifest his Dunamis to heal himself, which they mistakenly identified as Set.

Your not listing anything impressive here. 



> He had no problem what so ever with them (and he pwned Zeus without being at full power)



So what? Saga without his Cloth can blitz fully combat prep other Gold Saints, send entire armies of non-corporeal spirits to another dimension with a gesture. Hell the guy even resisted an ability from 3-sealed Cronos which combines mind and fate manipulation in one technique.

Aiolia resisted a handwave from Pontus (granted wasn't trying) that warped Dunamis (atomic manipulation of matter and energy) that temporarily transformed him into a demonic manifestation. 



> That wasnt your normal amped up Herc, that was Herc powered up by the Primordial Goddes, Gae. Gae gave birth to all skyfathers (yup that includes the ones that you already mentioned). Plus the fact that you your self admitted he was Rune King Thor level with his initial power up. Here's a scane on Gae:



Rune King Thor is still weaker then any major Olympian or Titan, so color me not impressed.


Aware of it, at least we're getting somewhere. Just like I remember the scene of Makaboshi eating the one Skrull Goddess. And point: Gaea wouldn't dare lift a finger against your average Celestial, like when they made Odin, Zeus, and Vishnu submit to their will the first time they came to the Earth.



> Again, how does that help against CK? All that's doing is basically giving the firee more wood plus oxygen.



Not when their going to gank him with it. You know, like creating entire worlds, galaxies, stars, and even universes or dimensions to power themselves up, manipulation of energy and matter down to the sub-atomic scale, fucking with time (Cronos inadvertently reversed time on portions of the Earth when his body was raised but flawed in manner); they have plenty of ways to kill him. 



> How so?



Because Herc was hurting him in the first place. They can generate and empower their attacks further by summoning their personal universes, amp their techniques or Somas with their own divine Ichor, generate celestial bodies to gain greater power (even in their two or one sealed state) and have complete control over their realities without Mnemosyne or Pontus' intervention.



> Again, how does this help against CK?



This is sound a lot like a wank to me. He got put out by Herc, characters like Hades can slap around the Bronze Saints in their God/Divine cloths with a single physical attack. Said Saints' average physical attack > the most destructive feat of any Gold Saint like multi-galaxy busting.

That power is focused on his ass, he'll die or get banished. 



> Why would you even mention this -_-



Why the fuck wouldn't I? Its not like it comes to close to mattering as a major feat but justification shows that Titans even sealed can destroy planets or stars with less than a fucking thought.



> So its mostly powerscaling off Olympian gods which the Titans are a match to?



How am I powerscaling? The Titans and Olympians fought each other in a stalemate for over a decade before Mnemosyne was seduced by Zeus, and used her powers to mind-fuck and seal away the abilities of the Titans, as well as Oceanus and his wife also joining them.

Their weakest and most nerfed state > a mid level Skyfather being in Marvel. Their strongest state >= multi-dimensional universal+ reality warpers comparable or superior to Cube level beings.

And Saga himself is solidly Skyfather level alone; multi-galaxy and dimension busting, massively FTL, spatial manipulation, regenerative armor, planet bust simply by flying into a planet, accelerating physical attacks with the 7th sense, etc...



> I beg to differ



You can differ all you want, he's not beating Saint Seiya. Hell Pontus petrified and transmuted Rhea, Cronos' wife, and four other Titanesses into stone casually. He did that to five universal class reality warpers, so yeah, he losses here.


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## mali (Jun 28, 2012)

Fang said:


> So what?


You made it sound like wed have to use a weaker CK because him at his strongest wasn't his actual power, that's what what.




> So what?


Read above.



> So what? Just an aspect, exactly, a small fragment. Non-corporeality wouldn't bother lowest Gold Saint much less Titans or Olympians. Sagittarius Aiolos soloed Typhoon, the embodiment of destruction, he also resealed a portion of Ebony Hyperion while the latter was trying to manifest his Dunamis to heal himself, which they mistakenly identified as Set.



Yeah, hell no.

Don't try to downplay CK just because he's an aspect of Oblivion. CK increased the void in the multiverse to as high as a degree Oblivion has done and a void of that size powering could more than likely put CK at Oblivions level (there both the same thing at the end of the day, its just that Oblivion originally encompassed more void so ergo he was more power).

Like how Juggernaut is an aspect of Cyttoraks power. If Juggernaut were to turn a large enugh portion of the multiverse into the crimson cosmos, he would effectively be amped to Cytorraks level (but they would both have that power seeing as they would be the same thing at that point). 




> Your not listing anything impressive here.


If you say so.



> So what? Saga without his Cloth can blitz fully combat prep other Gold Saints, send entire armies of non-corporeal spirits to another dimension with a gesture. Hell the guy even resisted an ability from 3-sealed Cronos which combines mind and fate manipulation in one technique.
> 
> Aiolia resisted a handwave from Pontus (granted wasn't trying) that warped Dunamis (atomic manipulation of matter and energy) that temporarily transformed him into a demonic manifestation.


Hol'up. I was rebutting this 





> A bit of a no limits argument seeing as he fought Skyfather beings and lower



I wasn't trying use it as a testament of strength (which you obviously thought I was seeing as you decided to give feats that out do the Zeus pwning as a respnse)



> Rune King Thor is still weaker then any major Olympian or Titan, so color me not impressed.


Hmm, really?? You seemed pretty sure of his power universes and stop the cycle of Ragnarok 



> Aware of it, at least we're getting somewhere. Just like I remember the scene of Makaboshi eating the one Skrull Goddess.


 What has this got to do with anything?





> And point: Gaea wouldn't dare lift a finger against your average Celestial, like when they made Odin, Zeus, and Vishnu submit to their will the first time they came to the Earth.



Yes and that's all well and dandy, but that was then and this now. She's effectively the symbol of creation (which is why CK was on her nuts seeing as his nightmare IS creation).

Just like how at his CK represents the concept that is the void/nothingness, Gae represents creation.



> Not when their going to gank him with it. You know, like creating entire worlds, galaxies, stars, and even universes or dimensions to power themselves up, manipulation of energy and matter down to the sub-atomic scale, fucking with time (Cronos inadvertently reversed time on portions of the Earth when his body was raised but flawed in manner); they have plenty of ways to kill him.


He consumes those galaxies and universes, unless they are some sort of super durable universes. Just like how those universes are powering the Titans, they can power CK (after consumption that is).



> Because Herc was hurting him in the first place. They can generate and empower their attacks further by summoning their personal universes, amp their techniques or Somas with their own divine Ichor, generate celestial bodies to gain greater power (even in their two or one sealed state) and have complete control over their realities without Mnemosyne or Pontus' intervention.



Yeah, creating more universes when fighting a creature that practically eats them is SUCH a great idea.


> This is sound a lot like a wank to me. He got put out by Herc


 Where??



> characters like Hades can slap around the Bronze Saints in their God/Divine cloths with a single physical attack. Said Saints' average physical attack > the most destructive feat of any Gold Saint like multi-galaxy busting.
> 
> That power is focused on his ass, he'll die or get banished.


I'm curious about the "average physical attack>the most destructive feat of any gold saint like multi-galaxy busting (I'm guessing that's coming from Galaxian Explosion?)". Scans (if you haven't got them on your current laptop then direct me to were I can get them).



> Why the fuck wouldn't I? Its not like it comes to close to mattering as a major feat but justification shows that Titans even sealed can destroy planets or stars with less than a fucking thought.



Star busting+ with a mere thought while sealed, woo hoo. CK took out Zeus (at full power) while nowhere NEAR his full power.

Inb4 powerscaling unsealed Titans from the "planet busting with a mere thought while sealed" argument. Just saiyan.



> How am I powerscaling? The Titans and Olympians fought each other in a stalemate for over a decade before Mnemosyne was seduced by Zeus, and used her powers to mind-fuck and seal away the abilities of the Titans, as well as Oceanus and his wife also joining them.



So you weren't talking about feats done by Olympians and linking them to Titans because they fought equally at one point (and notice how I said that I had nothing against the powerscaling/comparing)

I wasn't trying to downplay the Titans, just trying to fish out as many instances of Titan based universal shenanigans from you (subtly to say the least).



> Their weakest and most nerfed state > a mid level Skyfather being in Marvel. Their strongest state >= multi-dimensional universal+ reality warpers comparable or superior to Cube level beings.


More universal jargon? I get that they are universal+ but there universe creating powers won't be helping them in this match up.



> And Saga himself is solidly Skyfather level alone; multi-galaxy and dimension busting, massively FTL, spatial manipulation, regenerative armor, planet bust simply by flying into a planet, accelerating physical attacks with the 7th sense, etc...



Good to know.



> You can differ all you want, he's not beating Saint Seiya. Hell Pontus petrified and transmuted Rhea, Cronos' wife, and four other Titanesses into stone casually. He did that to five universal class reality warpers, so yeah, he losses here.



There universal powers aren't helping them fang, there's no point beating around the bush.


----------



## Fang (Jun 28, 2012)

Mali said:


> You made it sound like wed have to use a weaker CK because him at his strongest wasn't his actual power, that's what what.



Again: So what?




> Read above.



Again: So what?




> Yeah, hell no.



Too bad that's the case.



> Don't try to downplay CK just because he's an aspect of Oblivion. CK increased the void in the multiverse to as high as a degree Oblivion has done and a void of that size powering could more than likely put CK at Oblivions level (there both the same thing at the end of the day, its just that Oblivion originally encompassed more void so ergo he was more power).



Not what Oblivion himself said.

So: don't care about conjecture. 



> *sniped for non-relevance



So what? 



> If you say so.



Yep.



> Hol'up. I was rebutting this
> 
> I wasn't trying use it as a testament of strength (which you obviously thought I was seeing as you decided to give feats that out do the Zeus pwning as a respnse)



1: Not sure what the hell this means
2: End of the day owning Skyfathers doesn't mean shit just like Zeus taking out Galactus is bullshit



> Hmm, really?? You seemed pretty sure of his power universes and stop the cycle of Ragnarok



Work on your reading comprehension. Thor's ability as the Rune King was the fact that his powers didn't come from the Odinforce and two, his ability to actually make a pocket universe is impressive seeing as how Odin is pretty much the most powerful Skyfather and his best "universal" feat is retconned to using or borrowing Infinity's own power to restore the parts of the universe his alter ego destroyed.

It's that simple.



> What has this got to do with anything?



That I've read the damn story.



> Yes and that's all well and dandy, but that was then and this now. She's effectively the symbol of creation (which is why CK was on her nuts seeing as his nightmare IS creation).



So what? Still a Skyfather level entity whose afraid of Cube beings and Celestials. So what is relevance here?



> Just like how at his CK represents the concept that is the void/nothingness, Gae represents creation.



So what? Gaia in Saint Seiya created the Primordial Gods and married Uranus and created the actual universe. More impressive then Marvel Gae, so not seeing again the relevance. 



> He consumes those galaxies and universes, unless they are some sort of super durable universes. Just like how those universes are powering the Titans, they can power CK (after consumption that is).



Except bullshit. They have complete control over their universes and their reality warping abilities shit on anything any Skyfather has shown including Odin at his classic levels, and are several steps above your average Skyfather or planet-bound pantheon of Gods or Godheads. He has never fought entities of those levels and magically been able to consume at the same time, not too mention there is twelve of them plus Pontus, Prometheus, Eurbiya, the Gigants (who are admittingly fodder) and Gaia herself to deal with.

Coeus' Keruanos will one-shot him alone, Cronos himself can likely beat him with only mid difficulty. And again Pontus himself petrifying and transmutating five Titans into stone with little effort. Or Mnemosyne stealing his powers and mind-fucking him while the others fight him.

CK isn't winning.

He gets murked.



> Yeah, creating more universes when fighting a creature that practically eats them is SUCH a great idea.



>no limits fallacy abuse
>thinks that beating Skyfathers means its the same as eating reality casually while fighting a dozen and half universe class reality warpers.

Nope.



> Where??



Let's put it this way, I'll concede where you show me a scan of him putting out a proper multiversal being and fuck no if you think bringing up Zeus throwing lightning bolts at Galactus counts.



> I'm curious about the "average physical attack>the most destructive feat of any gold saint like multi-galaxy busting (I'm guessing that's coming from Galaxian Explosion?)". Scans (if you haven't got them on your current laptop then direct me to were I can get them).



Common knowledge for one. Seeing as how weaker versions of the Bronze Saints have busted dimensions, and Aiolia has busted a planet that was reinforced by the Dunamis of Iapetos to be turned into a shield simply by flying into without having proper control or mastery of his 7th sense.

And Seiya one-shotting Thanatos, a God, with a physical attack. The same one who was laughing off their best attacks and techniques. This is seriously common knowledge.



> Star busting+ with a mere thought while sealed, woo hoo. CK took out Zeus (at full power) while nowhere NEAR his full power.



Who the fuck cares. Saga's Galaxian Explosion hits the force of multiple exploding galaxies, and Cronos' mere physical form when being summoned was causing prehistoric creatures to revive on the planet from a different dimension and temporal flucations on the Earth.

Saga > Marvel Zeus. 

Hell Shaka can back from a focused Big Bang attack from Saga, Shura, and Camus.

That's not impressive.



> Inb4 powerscaling unsealed Titans from the "planet busting with a mere thought while sealed" argument. Just saiyan.



What are you babbling about. They are equal to the Olympians and top tiers in Saint Seiya save few others. Saga couldn't even beat a three-sealed astral projection of Cronos who didn't even have his Soma. I sure as fuck can powerscale then seeing as how a two-sealed Titan would smack the shit out of Thanatos or Hypnos much less the Gold Saints.

Sounds more like grasping at straws on your part.,



> So you weren't talking about feats done by Olympians and linking them to Titans because they fought equally at one point (and notice how I said that I had nothing against the powerscaling/comparing)
> 
> I wasn't trying to downplay the Titans, just trying to fish out as many instances of Titan based universal shenanigans from you (subtly to say the least).



Again what are you talking about? Hades has created universes and multiple dimensions larger the main one in the SS mythos, and the Titans have done the same even while sealed. Its that fucking simple.

And bullshit their powers of creation wouldn't help since your wanking something that was slapping around Skyfathers as being the same as fighting Cube level beings.

In case you forgot: Cube level beings >>>>>>>>>> Skyfathers.



> More universal jargon? I get that they are universal+ but there universe creating powers won't be helping them in this match up.



More incoherence? Too bad it will unless you have scans of him resisting reality, matter, and energy warping at those levels.

Good to know.



> There universal powers aren't helping them fang, there's no point beating around the bush.



It will, and seeing as you keep going on circles here I'd say the thread is done since your arguments aren't really worth much of a dime. And still no fucking counter to Pontus > five Titanesses being transmuted into stone or petrified as statues.

And even if those powers didn't then they'll just beat him to death. Mind-fucking, a specialized technique that neutralizes beings of their levels own immortality, regen, or Godhood, time manipulation, sealing him, special sorcery, etc. He's fucked either way in the end. 

5/10 thread.


----------



## Saint Saga (Jun 28, 2012)

Fang said:


> Don't care, everyone and their mother whose a regular in the OBD is aware of Saint Seiya feats from the Gold Saints, Bronze Saints, Titans, Primordials, and Olympians. *Trillions of times FTL*, dimension destroying, galaxy busting, universe destruction and creation, multi-dimensional influence, time manipulation, space manipulation, etc.
> 
> Your barking up the wrong tree if you think the burden of proof is on my end when those scans have been posted dozens of times in hundreds of different threads at this point. So go cry me a river.



Just wanted to say fang that saying they are trillions of time FTL is selling them quite a bit short.

They are actually 374418722881495600 FTL as a low end  .


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## Will Smith (Jun 28, 2012)

Fang said:


> Sorry, I already explained I'm using a fucking laptop. So once more, cry me a river. Let me explain how asinine your arguments are:



This is reading comprehension fail on your part. Since I asked you to post when you're ready. I took your laptop into account, you do know this right? I can quote it if you forget.




Fang said:


> So, your done here, dupe kun.



No, we're not done at all. We've only just begun.



Fang said:


> And for fuck's sake here's the Spanish version stating there are hundreds of billions of galaxies and quesars between Makai and Elysion in Hades' personal universe as well as numerous "black spots"/ along side that. The same dimension itself has each level and area of Makai being light-years apart.
> 
> Yeah your done.



I read the scan, it says they had to traverse billions of galaxies and trillions of black spots before reaching the Elysium fields. It simply states that between Makai and Elysium is a huge section of an unknown space. It never states or imply that he created that un-named universe they traversed through or that it's under his jurisdiction. Rather it's just what they had to go through before they reached him. For all I know it could have existed before and Hades just came along and claimed a small portion of it.

That's not CCU, not even close.


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## Ultra Instinct Vegito (Jun 28, 2012)

Then why were galaxies drawn Will Smith.


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## Will Smith (Jun 28, 2012)

Light Hawk Wings said:


> Then why were galaxies drawn Will Smith.



Because they were traveling through space.


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## Saint Saga (Jun 28, 2012)

...Yeah sure , an entire universe just existed on it's own inside of hades dimensions , seems legit.


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## Will Smith (Jun 28, 2012)

Saint Saga said:


> ...Yeah sure , an entire universe just existed on it's own inside of hades dimensions , seems legit.



It's another dimension, you know like Gemini saga's dimension? Just because someone occupy or has access to another dimension. Doesn't mean he created it.  But, hey, If you can show me him manipulating it or being able to influence it in anyway. Then I will concede this point. Since, I didn't come to deny this feat.


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## Saint Saga (Jun 28, 2012)

.....No , it is NOTHING like that.

The entire underworld was created by hades , that includes the path of the gods ( aka that universe with trillions of galaxies) .


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## Will Smith (Jun 28, 2012)

Saint Saga said:


> .....No , it is NOTHING like that.
> 
> The entire underworld was created by hades , that includes the path of the gods ( aka that universe with trillions of galaxies) .



That space sector isn't part of makai, though. They had to leave makai to encounter those billions of galaxies and trillions of black spots. If it was a part of the same realm, why would they have to leave?

The sequence is Makai --> Space --> Elysium field.


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## Saint Saga (Jun 28, 2012)

It is , it is RIGHT inside of makai right behind the gate of wailing .

It is more of the path of gods being inside makai , and elysium being hidden inside of it.


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## Will Smith (Jun 28, 2012)

Saint Saga said:


> It is , it is RIGHT inside of makai right behind the gate of wailing .
> 
> It is more of the path of gods being inside makai , and elysium being hidden inside of it.



You have scan for this?

Edit: The Gate of Wailing is the Exit of Makai.


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## Ultra Instinct Vegito (Jun 28, 2012)

Will Smith said:


> You have scan for this?




Why would Thanatos say it was a miracle that the saints cross those galaxies fi Hades didn't created it. There is a reason why that dimension is between Hell and Elysium...it is to keep away those people who are not Gods or who are not meant for Elysium. When Hades died everything got destroyed...even the billions of galaxies.


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## Will Smith (Jun 28, 2012)

Here's map of Tartarus/Makai:


*Spoiler*: __ 









There's zero reference to the Super Dimension, not even a Galaxy is shown.



Light Hawk Wings said:


> Why would Thanatos say it was a miracle that the saints cross those galaxies fi Hades didn't created it. There is a reason why that dimension is between Hell and Elysium...it is to keep away those people who are not Gods or who are not meant for Elysium.



You just answered your own question. It's a miracle because of it's vastness, I mean unless there's another deterrent that keeps non-immortals away that I dunno about. That really doesn't prove that he has influence over that space between Tartarus and Elysium.



Light Hawk Wings said:


> When Hades died everything got destroyed...even the billions of galaxies.



Show me a scan of that space being destroyed per his death and I'll concede.

Edit:


*Spoiler*: __ 








He only mentions that Makai/Tartarus and Elysium will be destroyed when he dies. He never calls the super dimension by name as one of the causalities of his demise.


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## Fang (Jun 29, 2012)

Saint Saga said:


> .....No , it is NOTHING like that.
> 
> The entire underworld was created by hades , that includes the path of the gods ( aka that universe with trillions of galaxies) .



Its already been proven to be the Path or Realm of the Gods seeing as how Aiacos was torn apart by the pressure of it since he wasn't allowed to enter it and the Bronze Saints were consecrated with the blood of Athena on their clothes.

Same with the Gold Cloths seeing as how they were permitted in their by Poseidon's himself. 

Everything in that universe was created by Hades.


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## Saint Saga (Jun 29, 2012)

Minos you mean  aiacos would never die to such a thing . 

But yeah pretty much .


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## Fang (Jun 29, 2012)

Yeah, Minos.


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## Saint Saga (Jun 29, 2012)

Aiacos , especially lost canvas aiacos would've just garuda flapped the entire path out of his way  .


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## Will Smith (Jun 29, 2012)

How are the scans out of order Fang?




Fang said:


> Its already been proven to be the Path or Realm of the Gods seeing as how Aiacos was torn apart by the pressure of it since he wasn't allowed to enter it and the Bronze Saints were consecrated with the blood of Athena on their clothes.
> 
> Same with the Gold Cloths seeing as how they were permitted in their by Poseidon's himself.
> 
> Everything in that universe was created by Hades



How does that prove that he created the realm? So, far you simply listed that they needed permission to enter it, not explicitly from Hades no less [Poseidon granted permission]. Are you saying that need of permission from other Gods like Poseidon = Hades creating the Super Dimension?


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## Saint Saga (Jun 29, 2012)

No , the path of gods is pretty much that , a path that destroys all who enter it other then gods .

The saints managed to get through it since their cloth had athena's blood on it , and it is why the gold cloth were able to cross it with poseidon's help .


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## Will Smith (Jun 29, 2012)

Saint Saga said:


> No , the path of gods is pretty much that , a path that destroys all who enter it other then gods .
> 
> The saints managed to get through it since their cloth had athena's blood on it , and it is why the gold cloth were able to cross it with poseidon's help .



Thanks for clarifying.


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## Saint Saga (Jun 29, 2012)

No problem .

I pretty much have no idea what hercules or CK are capable of , so not arguing for who wins here.

But yeah , hades did create the path of the gods , along with everything inside of makai .


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## Will Smith (Jun 29, 2012)

Saint Saga said:


> But yeah , hades did create the path of the gods , along with everything inside of makai .



Agree to Disagree.

 I don't see The Path of the Gods in the Map of makai nor does Hades claim ownership as he dies and the fact that they have to leave Makai through the wailing gates screams to me otherwise. I'm not seeing anything that leads me to Hades owning this realm or it being apart of his realm. At least nothing has been demonstrated.


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## Endless Mike (Jun 29, 2012)

Since he restored the entire multiverse I'd say he wins


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## Saint Saga (Jun 29, 2012)

So , you think a path that contains trillions of galaxies that destroys anyone who is not a god just...existed naturally ? Inside of hades's own dimension ?


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## Will Smith (Jun 29, 2012)

Endless Mike said:


> Since he restored the entire multiverse I'd say he wins



Who do you think wins mike?


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## Will Smith (Jun 29, 2012)

Saint Saga said:


> So , you think a path that contains trillions of galaxies that destroys anyone who is not a god just...existed naturally ? Inside of hades's own dimension ?



I believe that SSverse Gods created it, since Zeus created the SS universe [I think]. I don't believe that Hades alone created it or at least I haven't seen anything suggesting he did.


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## Endless Mike (Jun 29, 2012)

I just told you...


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## Will Smith (Jun 29, 2012)

Endless Mike said:


> I just told you...



comprehension fail on my part.

But, you sure? Apparently SS Titans are cube level beings.


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## Saint Saga (Jun 29, 2012)

It was gaea who created the saint seiya universe.

And it was hades himself who created makai and everything in it .

Zeus didn't exactly create anything from as far as i remember , probably heaven but it was never shown in canon i believe .


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## Will Smith (Jun 29, 2012)

Saint Saga said:


> It was gaea who created the saint seiya universe.



Okay, my bad. 



Saint Saga said:


> And it was hades himself who created makai and everything in it .



But, is it _really_ in Makai?

It's not on the map and Hades never names it as his own personal realm. So, why do you think it's in Makai?


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## Saint Saga (Jun 29, 2012)

It is in makai yes , right behind the gate of wailing , like litterly behind it .

Unless they somehow managed to jump into another dimension after destroying the gate .

And that  map was that of the prisons if you are referring to what i think you are .


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## Will Smith (Jun 29, 2012)

Saint Saga said:


> Unless they somehow managed to jump into another dimension after destroying .



But, weren't they already headed to another dimension anyway, Elysium?



Saint Saga said:


> And that  map was that of the prisons if you are referring to what i think you are .



I posted a map of Makai as a whole.


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## Endless Mike (Jun 29, 2012)

Which doesn't matter as CK devoured at least billions of universes and Skyfather Herc repaired them.


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## Will Smith (Jun 29, 2012)

Endless Mike said:


> Which doesn't matter as CK devoured at least billions of universes and Skyfather Herc repaired them.



Well, apparently since it wasn't multi eternity that was consumed. It's not a high-end feat. Oh, and this Herc isn't even above Rune King Thor. . .Apparently.


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## Endless Mike (Jun 29, 2012)

That's complete bullshit. Cho confirmed CK had devoured most of the multiverse, he had displaced Death and Hercules fixed it all easily.

Also Multi-Eternity was only ever referred to by name in the Abraxas saga, it's implied that every Eternity you see is a part of Multi-Eternity.


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Jun 29, 2012)

Saint Saga said:


> So , you think a path that contains trillions of galaxies that destroys anyone who is not a god just...existed naturally ? Inside of hades's own dimension ?



Where are you getting this number?The only time billions or trillions is used is in the spanish version of the manga("Billions of Galaxies and trillions of black holes") not sure about the other versions that may be out there. The Japanese version I've heard says "countless galaxies" which is vague way of saying many, secondary canon gives a number(someone could post the number if they've seen it). We really need to get this sorted but regardless covering many Galaxies in short time is still MASSIVELY FTL.

Here's the Spanish scan that people are using
Link removed

I never gave it much thought because I only read the english version of Hades saga(which is horribly translated itself). Assumed it was billions in the original and translated as such in the spanish. Open to being wrong, have been a supporter of SS since years and just don't want to use a wrong number.



> Also Multi-Eternity was only ever referred to by name in the Abraxas saga, it's implied that every Eternity you see is a part of Multi-Eternity



Dormammu describing 616 Eternity?



> The sequence is Makai --> Space --> Elysium field



All part of Hades dimension. All three make up his universe, he's low to mid cubed being level. 

The Bronze Saints still covered lots of Galaxies in that space really fast, the Gold Cloths do the same with the only assistance being their protection from the dimension, they travel under their own power. That is easily within millions of times lightspeed+.


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## mali (Jun 29, 2012)

> Again: So what?


What the hell are you on? I was rebutting ths 


> That in and of itself doesn't really mean much because the entirety of it was him getting into space and dealing with other cosmic/skyfather pantheons after the Skrull's Secret Invasion arc. That's how he became the King Chaos, so its not even his normal power set that let him become that way till he started eating other pantheons.



I wasn't using it as a testament of CK's power for christs sakes, just rebutting side arguments that YOU made so stop with these asnine questions -_-



> Again: So what?



Again:Read above



> Too bad that's the case.



Why? Because its falling on your blind eyes?



> Not what Oblivion himself said.
> 
> So: don't care about conjecture.



Oblivion stated that CK is an aspect of himself in the Thor Annual, so unless you find a fault in the logic, its just you being hard headed.

(And please, ask for scans, I'm BEGGING you)


> So what?



Yep.




> 1: Not sure what the hell this means



Again I was rebutting an argument brought up by YOU (no limits fallacy bullshit). But hey, you being such a great debater and rebutts with 'so what' instead of presenting the faults in my argument :/



> 2: End of the day owning Skyfathers doesn't mean shit just like Zeus taking out Galactus is bullshit



CK used Zues's body to take out an unfed Galactus with a single lightning bolt, fact.
You've read the comic and you know this (although I've got scans if your memory needs refreshing)



> Work on your reading comprehension. Thor's ability as the Rune King was the fact that his powers didn't come from the Odinforce and two, his ability to actually make a pocket universe is impressive seeing as how Odin is pretty much the most powerful Skyfather and his best "universal" feat is retconned to using or borrowing Infinity's own power to restore the parts of the universe his alter ego destroyed.



All I said was that you seemed pretty confident on RKT's abilities when compared to Herc, I'm not gonna open up another side argument seeing as this shit already cluster fucked -_-


> Its that simple.



If you say so



> That I've read the damn story.



Well duh, you would have to have read the story to debating about CK and I don't remember doubting in the first place -_-



> So what? Still a Skyfather level entity whose afraid of Cube beings and Celestials. So what is relevance here?



Did you even read my post??

All that Celestial shenanigans with gods happened MULTIPLE years ago, her most recent appearance in Chaos War has her powered up -_-
She fucking gave Herc the power to reconstruct the multiverse -_-




> So what? Gaia in Saint Seiya created the Primordial Gods and married Uranus and created the actual universe. More impressive then Marvel Gae, so not seeing again the relevance.



Pity how Gaia created only one universe where as Herc imbued with Gaes power reconstructed most of the multiverse.



> Except bullshit. They have complete control over their universes and their reality warping abilities shit on anything any Skyfather has shown including Odin at his classic levels, and are several steps above your average Skyfather or planet-bound pantheon of Gods or Godheads. He has never fought entities of those levels and magically been able to consume at the same time, not too mention there is twelve of them plus Pontus, Prometheus, Eurbiya, the Gigants (who are admittingly fodder) and Gaia herself to deal with.



CK at his peak was a fucking concept which encompassed a multiverse, how the fuck do the Titans plan reality warping or even hurting his ass ?? They would literally be lost in side a void (inside CK).


> Coeus' Keruanos will one-shot him alone, Cronos himself can likely beat him with only mid difficulty.



Coues Keruanos and Cronos have never been up against a being of that level so stop talking out of your ass.


> And again Pontus himself petrifying and transmutating five Titans into stone with little effort. Or Mnemosyne stealing his powers and mind-fucking him while the others fight him.



Mind fucking a concept, sure that will work 


> CK isn't winning.



Yeah he will, your just over hyping the Titans.



> He gets murked.



Cool story -_-



> >no limits fallacy abuse



I rebbuted this already but you decide to respond with "So what" 



> >thinks that beating Skyfathers means its the same as eating reality casually while fighting a dozen and half universe class reality warpers.



CK pwned Skyfathers while also consuming the multiverse, good luck reality warping him.


> Nope.



Wow, such a compelling argument.


> Let's put it this way, I'll concede where you show me a scan of him putting out a proper multiversal being and fuck no if you think bringing up Zeus throwing lightning bolts at Galactus counts.



Why would you need feats of him fucking take out a multiversal character when he was actually consuming the multiverse its self?-_-
That alone makes him multiversal.


> Common knowledge for one. Seeing as how weaker versions of the Bronze Saints have busted dimensions, and Aiolia has busted a planet that was reinforced by the Dunamis of Iapetos to be turned into a shield simply by flying into without having proper control or mastery of his 7th sense.
> 
> And Seiya one-shotting Thanatos, a God, with a physical attack. The same one who was laughing off their best attacks and techniques. This is seriously common knowledge.



Common knowledge my ass, I had no problem with your other arguments but this I need to see scans of (and I can wait till you get on your own computer)



> Who the fuck cares. Saga's Galaxian Explosion hits the force of multiple exploding galaxies, and Cronos' mere physical form when being summoned was causing prehistoric creatures to revive on the planet from a different dimension and temporal flucations on the Earth.
> 
> Saga > Marvel Zeus.
> 
> Hell Shaka can back from a focused Big Bang attack from Saga, Shura, and Camus.



I wasn't trying to make that as being impressive, just showing you how pathetic the "planet busting with a thought" was in comparison.




> What are you babbling about. They are equal to the Olympians and top tiers in Saint Seiya save few others. Saga couldn't even beat a three-sealed astral projection of Cronos who didn't even have his Soma. I sure as fuck can powerscale then seeing as how a two-sealed Titan would smack the shit out of Thanatos or Hypnos much less the Gold Saints.
> 
> Sounds more like grasping at straws on your part.,



Do you even fucking read my posts? When did I say there was something wrong with you powerscaling? When did I say the Titans weren't equal to the Olympians -_-



> Again what are you talking about? Hades has created universes and multiple dimensions larger the main one in the SS mythos, and the Titans have done the same even while sealed. Its that fucking simple.



Yeah you can argue this over with Will Smith.


> And bullshit their powers of creation wouldn't help since your wanking something that was slapping around Skyfathers as being the same as fighting Cube level beings.



>Character has lower old showings
>Character has now higher showings
>You bring up the characters old lower showings

And then you accuse Will Smith of nitpicking 



> In case you forgot: Cube level beings >>>>>>>>>> Skyfathers.



Funny you should say that. Wanna know why I forgot? Because Gae was portrayed much stronger in a more recent comic 



> More incoherence? Too bad it will unless you have scans of him resisting reality, matter, and energy warping at those levels.



More like the Titans have no showings of reality warping a CONCEPT -_-



> Good to know.



Yeah, it really is.


> It will, and seeing as you keep going on circles here I'd say the thread is done since your arguments aren't really worth much of a dime. And still no fucking counter to Pontus > five Titanesses being transmuted into stone or petrified as statues.
> 
> And even if those powers didn't then they'll just beat him to death. Mind-fucking, a specialized technique that neutralizes beings of their levels own immortality, regen, or Godhood, time manipulation, sealing him, special sorcery, etc. He's fucked either way in the end.
> 
> 5/10 thread.



Yeah, its not like as if you disregard my arguments rebutt them with a completely different argument -_-

T o be honest I'm done seeing as your starting to annoy me and I'd hate for this to end in some sort of flame war.


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## mali (Jun 29, 2012)

If anyone knows how I could get the tags to work, feel free to tell me


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## Amae (Jun 29, 2012)

You misspelled quote and forgot the "/" in some of them.


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## mali (Jun 29, 2012)

Wow I feel stupid -_-


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## Will Smith (Jun 29, 2012)

Tranquil Fury said:


> All part of Hades dimension.



I'm not disputing this, I'm disputing the claim that the Super Dimension is Hades personal universe. There's no evidence suggesting Hades created that large space or even influences it. It's not even mentioned among the names of realms that will be destroyed upon his death, Only Elysium and Tartarus are:


*Spoiler*: __


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## You unwashed virgin turd (Jun 29, 2012)

You should have stuck to acting.


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## Tranquil Fury (Jun 29, 2012)

Will Smith said:


> I'm not disputing this, I'm disputing the claim that the Super Dimension is Hades personal universe. There's no evidence suggesting Hades created that large space or even influences it. It's not even mentioned among the names of realms that will be destroyed upon his death, Only Elysium and Tartarus are:
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __



Yes he did, he created hell to make human souls suffer. The Judges also mention that Hades chose not to keep up his Gold Saint nerfing Barrier in Hell, hence why GS are not affected. Elysium is where Hades keeps his true body, it is his too. All  of it is Hades. It's all called the Underworld. Tartarus is referencing Hell I'm guessing. English version has some errors for the record. They're currently retranslating the manga in english properly.

Are you claiming that Hell and the dimensional space are just random dimensions created by someone else who happens to not mind Hades using both?One to keep souls and the other to keep out non gods from Elysium?He built the wall between Hell and Elysium as well.

Listen I'm not saying Hades stands any chance against Herc or Fullpowered Mikaboshi but don't downplay his feat. Unless Next Dimension shows that Hell and the dimensional space survived while Elysium did not, there is no reason to doubt Hades did not create the whole underworld when he's the god of it.


----------



## Will Smith (Jun 29, 2012)

Tranquil Fury said:


> It's all called the Underworld.



I posted a map of the underworld, please show me a hint of the Super dimension.


*Spoiler*: __ 









Show me a Galaxy or anything.


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Jun 29, 2012)

What are you doing?You're saying that Hell and Elyisum are Hades but not the space between them?Especially considering the whole no mortal rule defense around there is placed by Hades?

Or are you claiming now that the dimensional space between Hell and Elysium has no Galaxies?Because regardless of whether Hell has them or not, the space between Hell and Elyisum does which is also maintained by Hades. Trying to grasp at straws by claiming Hades did not create the dimensional space without any proof using faulty english translations is hilarious.

I don't support the Mikaboshi downplaying but don't support the Hades downplaying now either.

-Hell is made by Hades
-The wall is made by Hades to keep out non gods
-Dimensional space has a similar defense
-Elysium is made by Hades

But apparantly the only thing not Hades is the dimension between Hell and Elysium?You better have a very good explaination for where that space magically came from without Hades creating it then explain how it is magically made so only beings with divine blood may pass which is very convenient for Hades who made his Elysium on the other side and a wall to block out non divine beings just before the dimension. No sir must all be a coincidence rather than just made by Hades.

Give me proof from the original version?
Give me secondary canon or word of god proof?
Explain to me who made the dimension?


----------



## Banhammer (Jun 29, 2012)

Skyfather Hercules is actually much stronger than any average skyfather, so much that gallactus couldn't dominate him
Mikaboshi ate skyfathers like chicken mcnuggets and was called to be an edge of which eternity defined himself against
universal threat cherries.


----------



## Will Smith (Jun 29, 2012)

Tranquil Fury said:


> What are you doing?You're saying that Hell and Elyisum are Hades but not the space between them?



Yes, that's what I'm saying. Why are you assuming that it's his realm when he never states it by name and no map of the underworld shows the Super Dimension as part of it?



Tranquil Fury said:


> Especially considering the whole no mortal rule defense around there is placed by Hades?



First, did Hades specifically make this rule? 

Second, controlling access to a realm doesn't mean you control said realm from within.



Tranquil Fury said:


> Give me proof from the original version?
> Give me secondary canon or word of god proof?
> Explain to me who made the dimension?



I already posted proof, he never mentions the place as being his realm.



Tranquil Fury said:


> You better have a very good explaination for where that space magically came



It's most likely just a piece of space created by the SS God. It's not Hades that's for sure, he never claims it and isn't on any of his maps. So, how can it be his? Because he's next to it? Is the universe in another Dimension created by Gemini Saga?



Tranquil Fury said:


> how it is magically made so only beings with divine blood may pass which is very convenient



This is their only connection.


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Jun 29, 2012)

Because Elyisum is part of what Hades made, it's part of the whole dimension. Elyisum goes along with everything else Hades made when he died so clearly he's been maintaining all of it with his own power. 

Why should I assume a dimension not made by Hades exists in his own universe?Elyisum is'nt part of your map either, that map is a map of Hell and it does not cover anything beyond the Wall. That's like saying the map of a town is proof nothing else exists in a State or whole Country.

Hades creates a barrier to nerf Saints of Athena, ND and the original support this but they do not influence his own minions for obvious reasons. He does not keep it up in Hell however because there are more specters and the chances of a Saint with the 8th sense coming along is rare.

I'll conceed if you explain
-Why the dimension conveniently has a property Hades wants?
-Who made the dimension between Hell and Elysium if not Hades?

Not saying Hades stands any chance here, just correcting the "Not a universe part" just like I corrected the "Trillions of Galaxies" argument because it was wrong.


----------



## Will Smith (Jun 29, 2012)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Because Elyisum is part of what Hades made, it's part of the whole dimension. Elyisum goes along with everything else Hades made when he died so clearly he's been maintaining all of it with his own power.



Are you saying that the super space is Elysium. Got any proof of this? Despite It never labeled as such? I can prove that it isn't with scan mind you.



Tranquil Fury said:


> Elyisum is'nt part of your map either,



Why would a map of the underworld cover Elysium when they are explicitly designated as two separate realms?



Tranquil Fury said:


> -Why the dimension conveniently has a property Hades wants?
> -Who made the dimension between Hell and Elysium?



It was most likely created by someone else. Like the God of SS verse for instance. In the end it doesn't matter, because it's certainly not Hades realm.



Tranquil Fury said:


> Not saying Hades stands any chance here, just correcting the "Not a universe part" just like I corrected the "Trillions of Galaxies" argument because it was wrong.



I never stated that it's not a universe. I simply stated that it's not a personal universe Hades created like the underworld or Elysium.


----------



## Fang (Jun 29, 2012)

Don't think I've ever seen so much wrong on Saint Seiya from a poster. 

Elysion and Makai are two completely fucking separate realms that even the three Judges and Pandora weren't allowed access or providence to. Elysion is the the home of the twin Gods, Thanatos and Hypnos as well as where as Hades keeps his true body since the Age of Myths and the Hyperion Era. They are only connected by being in the same universe that Hades dimension holds.

There is no omnipotent creator "God" of Saint Seiya.  Hades created Hell/Makai, all the space, those galaxies, Elysion, reality altering barriers, a dimension where those who aren't even aligned to his Specter army or a God has you losing your soul and dying instantly. The surviving Gold Saints only got into Makai because of the 8th Sense allowing them total control and reincarnation of their souls, and the same with the Bronze Saints.

Each area in Makai was light-years apart and the Wailing Well sealed off the totality of Makai from Elysion, which has the added bonus of billions of galaxies, quasars, and black holes between them and in the influence of the Path of the Gods. All of those overlapping dimensions are part of the Super Dimension in Hades realm. No entity like Gaia, Uranus, or the other Primordials or Titans were involved in its creation, same with the one in Olympus, Tartarus, the Titan's personal universes, etc.



Mali said:


> *snip*



Guess how much I could not care?


----------



## Will Smith (Jun 29, 2012)

Fang said:


> Elysion and Makai are two completely fucking separate realms that even the three Judges and Pandora weren't allowed access or providence to.



Why even mention this? I already stated that they were separate. Do you ever actually read anyone's post?



Fang said:


> Hades created those galaxies



Can you actually prove this?



Fang said:


> the Wailing Well sealed off the totality of Makai from Elysion,



Uhh, did you miss the part where there's an entire dimension between Elysium and The underworld.



Fang said:


> which has the added bonus of billions of galaxies, quasars, and black holes



This is debatable, here's the official English version of Saint Seiya in regards to traveling Galaxy and Blackspots.



Here's another English version:

*Spoiler*: __ 








Here's a transcript of the Japanese version:


*Spoiler*: __ 



"After x0 000 000 000 of light. (since the expression is 何百億, the number range is 20 000 000 000-99 999 999 999, otherwise they would go to 何千億)

After x00 000 000 000 of darkness (since the expression is 何千億, the number range is 200 000 000 000-999 999 999 999, otherwise they would go to 何万億)

They finally reached that world."




Only the Spanish version mentions Galaxies and Blackspots. So, it's most likely a mistranslation.



Fang said:


> Super Dimension in Hades realm.



Except that it's not actually in Hades Realm. It's between two realms created by him.


----------



## mali (Jun 29, 2012)

Wow, awesome rebuttal Fang


----------



## Ultra Instinct Vegito (Jun 29, 2012)

Seems like Will SMith is the only person in the OBD who doesn't believe Hades created the universe connecting to Elysium.


----------



## Will Smith (Jun 29, 2012)

Light Hawk Wings said:


> Seems like Will SMith is the only person in the OBD who doesn't believe Hades created the universe connecting to Elysium.



Because it wasn't proven that he made it.


----------



## zenieth (Jun 29, 2012)

Occam's Razor


----------



## Will Smith (Jun 29, 2012)

Tranquil Fury said:


> I'll conceed if you explain
> -Why the dimension conveniently has a property Hades wants?
> -Who made the dimension between Hell and Elysium if not Hades?




*
Why the dimension conveniently has a property Hades wants?*

You stated that the fact that the wailing wall and Super Dimension were only accessible to Gods was proof of a connection between the two and since Hades is responsible for one then it's logical to assume he's responsible for the other. Here's my problem with that, the context between the wailing wall is different from the Super Galaxy.

The saints couldn't go through the wailing wall because it required rays from the sun.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------



*
"To destroy the Wailing wall you need, you need a ray of the suns light"*



*"It is possible to produce the rays of the sun - by gathering the might of the gold saints."*

*"It's possible to create sunlight by combining the powers of the gold saints"*



*"The 12 Gold cloths on the path of the sun have been bathed in the suns rays since ancient days"*

*
"And in each of these clothes is stored a fraction of these solar rays"*

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
But in order to do so, all 12 Gold saints must raise their cosmos to the utmost limits.


*Spoiler*: __ 









*"By raising our cosmos energies which contain the sun's power to their apex. . ."*

continues


*Spoiler*: __ 









*" We should be able to match, on to a small scale, the power of the sun"*


*
"Then we can break the Wailing wall!?"*


----------



## eaebiakuya (Jun 29, 2012)

Here is a brasilian version. Not a internet version, this is a scan from the manga:



In this version, is writed:

- After so much light 
- ...and so much darkness

In this version: galaxies, black holes, or any number (like billions or millions) is stated.

When Hades die:



He says : Everything i have built will be destroyed, the Mekai and the Elysium.

p.s: im not in any side, just posting this version of the manga.


----------



## zenieth (Jun 29, 2012)

How exactly does that prove that The super dimension doesn't have the same ability as Wailing Wall?

Are you saying that it should be destroyed by rays of Sunlight? That's some faulty reasoning.

We go by occam's razor unless specifically given reason to otherwise.

He created both dimensions on either side of the super dimension

He created the wall blocking it

Super dimension has an attribute similar to wailing wall.

Logic dictates that if it walks, quacks and looks, it's a duck. Or in this case, Hades' creation.


----------



## Ultra Instinct Vegito (Jun 29, 2012)

Will Smith said:


> Because it hasn't proven that he made it.



You know how you wouldk now the Hades dimension isn't the main universe? When Shura and Shiryu went to outer space without any  blood from Athena...they didn't explode  like the spectres.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Jun 29, 2012)

I'm no Saint Seiya expert, but the argument that some kind of... ninja universe snuck into Hades' realm without anyone noticing seems a bit silly.


----------



## Will Smith (Jun 29, 2012)

Now for the Super Dimension:

The first comment about the nature of the Dimension is in regardeds to how twisted Space-Time is there: 


*
"What a strange sight! space and time,distorted" . . .*

*"This really is a place only Gods can enter"*


This pops up again:



*"This pressure on my body! My cloth and my body will be crushed!!"*

*
"Ah can no man pass by this path ordained for the Gods"*

It's only by awakening their divine cloths power that seiya can pass through the Super Dimension:



*
"This power was probably triggered by the blood of athena"*
*
"Clothes revived by Athena's blood armor are no longer simply armor" . . .*

*"Thanks to that, we should able to reach Elysium"*

Complete different context from the wailing wall. No, sunlight no nothing.


----------



## Will Smith (Jun 29, 2012)

zenieth said:


> How exactly does that prove that The super dimension doesn't have the same ability as Wailing Wall?
> 
> Are you saying that it should be destroyed by rays of Sunlight? That's some faulty reasoning.



No, I'm saying that the rays have nothing to do with why only Gods can pass the Super Dimension. You're saying that the context is the same when it's not. I explained both reason in detail, it's got nothing to do with each other minus that it's easy for gods to get pass both obstacles.



zenieth said:


> We go by occam's razor unless specifically given reason to otherwise.



Occams Razor generally applies in the absence of evidence. I provided plenty.




zenieth said:


> He created both dimensions on either side of the super dimension
> 
> He created the wall blocking it



I agree, but he didn't create the Super Dimension




zenieth said:


> Super dimension has an attribute similar to wailing wall.



What attribute would that be?


----------



## Will Smith (Jun 29, 2012)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> I'm no Saint Seiya expert, but the argument that some kind of... ninja universe snuck into Hades' realm without anyone noticing seems a bit silly.



That's not my argument, that's my detractors strawman. My argument is that Hades created two pocket dimensions within one bigger dimension.


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## Ultra Instinct Vegito (Jun 29, 2012)

So yeah you are still the only one who believes Hades didn't create the Universe... I already explained to you that dmiension could not be the main universe because Shura and Shiryu  went to outer space at the beginning of the manga and didn't explode like the spectres did.


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## Will Smith (Jun 29, 2012)

Light Hawk Wings said:


> So yeah you are still the only one who believes Hades didn't create the Universe... I already explained to you that dmiension could not be the main universe because Shura and Shiryu  went to outer space at the beginning of the manga and didn't explode like the spectres did.



The same thing happened during Another  Dimension. They traversed planets, Galaxy and stars without dying.


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## Ultra Instinct Vegito (Jun 29, 2012)

Yes so Hades universe is not the main universe.


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## Will Smith (Jun 29, 2012)

Light Hawk Wings said:


> Yes so Hades universe is not the main universe.



Well, I was arguing that it's another space. Not, the actually space. Sorry if I came across wrong.

Edit: what do you mean by Shura and Shiryu going to space and not exploding btw?


----------



## Gutts X3 (Jun 29, 2012)

Will Smith said:


> That's not my argument, that's my detractors strawman. My argument is that Hades created two pocket dimensions within one bigger dimension.



The Super dimension, is the River Lethe in Saint Seiya. It is part of Meikai, the map was only prison on their way to Hades.



The Saint Seiya Pedia (where is the translation of Saint Seiya)

Elysion est ce qui dans le domaine d'Had?s repr?sente le paradis. Ce monde appartenant ? une autre dimension se situe au del? du Mur des lamentations et ne peut ?tre atteint qu'apr?s avoir parcouru entre dix milliard et cent milliard d'ann?es lumi?res. Le contraste avec l'Enfer est total, ce paradis ?tant rempli de fleurs et de clart?.

The translation of sub in spanish of the anime.


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## zenieth (Jun 29, 2012)

Will Smith said:


> Occams Razor generally applies in the absence of evidence. I provided plenty.



Plenty what? Nothing you provided lends credit that someone other than Hades created that Dimension. There's no other possible perpetrator, no other god has dominion over that area, and you have not given a possible alternative. None of that "evidence" paints a picture of who created that space so Occam's still very much applies.


----------



## Will Smith (Jun 29, 2012)

zenieth said:


> Plenty what? Nothing you provided lends credit that someone other than Hades created that Dimension.




I didn't inquire about who created the dimension, I stated and proved that there is no indication that it was hades who did so. There's no proof that Hades did it or has dominion on it.



zenieth said:


> There's no other possible perpetrator, no other god has dominion over that area, and you have not given a possible alternative. None of that "evidence" paints a picture of who created that space so



Except that he doesn't have dominion over that area. I already touched on that, He never claimed that Dimension as his own when claiming jurisdiction of his realms prior to his death. None of the maps mention it either.


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## Will Smith (Jun 29, 2012)

Gutts X3 said:


> -snip-



I already posted the manga version of the map.


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## Ultra Instinct Vegito (Jun 29, 2012)

Will Smith even if Hades did not create that dimension....which he did...he would still be universal since Thanatos one shotted 5 gold saints who are already multi star level to Galaxy level busting power. God Saints are able to kill the Twin Gods pretty quickly. 5 God Saints did nothing to Hades.


----------



## Gutts X3 (Jun 29, 2012)

Will Smith said:


> I already posted the manga version of the map.


 
This is the final version of manga. The map was only Meikai Prisons.

This happens when you do not know of saint seiya, he claims that destroys their world after all even what can not pronounce. The hyperdimension is part of the Meikai.


----------



## Will Smith (Jun 29, 2012)

Gutts X3 said:


> This is the final version of manga.



Where is it on the map?




Gutts X3 said:


> This happens when you do not know of saint seiya, he claims that destroys their world after all even what can not pronounce. The hyperdimension is part of the Meikai.



 Scan please?

I don't mind if it's in Spanish.


----------



## Will Smith (Jun 29, 2012)

Light Hawk Wings said:


> Will Smith even if Hades did not create that dimension....which he did...he would still be universal since Thanatos one shotted 5 gold saints who are already multi star level to Galaxy level busting power. God Saints are able to kill the Twin Gods pretty quickly. 5 God Saints did nothing to Hades.



Busting a Galaxy doesn't make you anywhere near universal. Do you know how many Galaxys our universe has?


----------



## Gutts X3 (Jun 29, 2012)

Will Smith said:


> Can you show me a scan please, I don't care if it's in Spanish. Just a scan of this happening.





the world I think, the hell, the elysium... *all*!.

The  is the River Lethe in Sain Seiya, therefore that part of the Meikai.

I bet you not even read the entire manga.


----------



## Will Smith (Jun 29, 2012)

Gutts X3 said:


> the world I think, the hell, the elysium... *all*!.



I already posted this scan in English and just like the English version no mention of the Hyper Dimension.



Gutts X3 said:


> The Hyperdimension is the River Lethe in Sain Seiya.



Just show me a scan in the manga where it says this and I will concede.


----------



## Gutts X3 (Jun 29, 2012)

Will Smith said:


> I already posted this scan in English and just like the English version no mention of the Hyper Dimension.
> 
> Just show me a scan in the manga where it says this and I will concede.



The edition in English is terrible. 

Down in the pagina, on trivia why it is called the River Lethe.


----------



## Will Smith (Jun 29, 2012)

Gutts X3 said:


> The edition in English is terrible.



Okay fair enough.



Gutts X3 said:


> Down in the pagina, on trivia why it is called the River Lethe.



Beats me, but manga feats are canon.


----------



## Gutts X3 (Jun 29, 2012)

Will Smith said:


> I already posted this scan in English and just like the English version no mention of the Hyper Dimension.
> 
> Just show me a scan in the manga where it says this and I will concede.



The edition in English is terrible. The abbreviated to tell all

Down in the pagina, on trivia why it is called the the River Lethe.

Charon mentions that the Elyseun are crossing the River Lethe.


----------



## Will Smith (Jun 29, 2012)

Gutts X3 said:


> Down in the pagina, on trivia why it is called the the River Lethe.



Like I said, Manga is what it accepted as canon around here. Post a manga scan in Spanish that mentions the Hyper Dimension as the river Lethe.



Gutts X3 said:


> Charon mentions that the Elyseun are crossing the River Lethe.



Manga scan.


----------



## Gutts X3 (Jun 29, 2012)

Will Smith said:


> Like I said, Manga is what it accepted as canon around here. Post a manga scan in Spanish that mentions the Hyper Dimension as the river Lethe.
> 
> Manga scan.



In the way anime scan if you do not mind.



It's the last thing that crosses before reaching the Elysium. Shaka also mentioned that he had been in the Elysium. After it is mentioned that is beyond the River Lethe. In the page explains it better.


----------



## zenieth (Jun 29, 2012)

here's the manga.

Now get yourself elsewhere fool.


----------



## Will Smith (Jun 29, 2012)

zenieth said:


> Now get yourself elsewhere fool.



I asked for a scan that says what the wiki stated.




Gutts X3 said:


> In the way anime scan if you do not mind.



Anime isn't used to back up manga evidence.

Edit: Why do you claim that the Spanish translation is superior to the english one?


----------



## zenieth (Jun 29, 2012)

Gutts X3 said:


> *Charon mentions that the Elyseun are crossing the River Lethe.*





Will Smith said:


> *Manga scan.*





zenieth said:


> here's the manga.
> 
> Now get yourself elsewhere fool.





Will Smith said:


> *I asked for a scan that says would the wiki stated.
> *




Now get yourself elsewhere fool.


----------



## Will Smith (Jun 29, 2012)

It's funny that you nitpick my post and conveniently ignore me asking for this:



Will Smith said:


> Like I said, Manga is what it accepted as canon around here.* Post a manga scan in Spanish that mentions the Hyper Dimension as the river Lethe.*



In the same post no less. 



zenieth said:


> Now get yourself elsewhere fool.



Even though there's no mention of the Hyperdimension being the river on panel? Where does the manga scan state or imply this:


----------



## Gutts X3 (Jun 29, 2012)

Will Smith said:


> Ethough there's no mention of the Hyperdimension being the river on panel? Where does the manga scan state or imply this:



It was suggested since it is the last frontier to cross into the Elysium. As explained in the page.



Will Smith said:


> Anime isn't used to back up manga evidence.
> 
> Edit: Why do you claim that the Spanish translation is superior to the english one?



One of the biggest complaints of the anime. Is a copy of the manga without animation. 

The translation in Spanish is better that translates directly from the script of Archange. Also there are more fans who speak Spanish than English


----------



## zenieth (Jun 29, 2012)

Will Smith said:


> It's funny that you nitpick my post and conveniently ignore me asking for this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's the only equtable thing to a river

it's the one thing mentioned that needs to be passed to enter Elysian

Occam's razor, you jackass.


----------



## Will Smith (Jun 29, 2012)

Gutts X3 said:


> The translation in Spanish is better that translates directly from the script of Archange.



You have any proof of this. I posted a japanese translation of the scene where seiya and co pass through the Hyperdimension and it was much more closer with the English version. The Spanish version mentions Galaxies and Black Spots.


----------



## Will Smith (Jun 29, 2012)

zenieth said:


> It's the only equtable thing to a river



It's not even a river, how is it equatable?



zenieth said:


> it's the one thing mentioned that needs to be passed to enter Elysian



It just says it's beyond the River Lethe. That's not the same as what the wiki said.

Edit:

Reading comprehension fail on my part. The wiki doesn't even bother equating the Hyperdimension to Lethe lol.

them


----------



## zenieth (Jun 29, 2012)

Will Smith said:


> Edit:
> 
> Reading comprehension fail on my part. The wiki doesn't even bother equating the Hyperdimension to Lethe lol.
> 
> them



*Relationship with the River LetheEdit

When Charon speaks of Elysion, reveals that the place is on the other side of Lethe,
* Shaka with Athena explains that it was beyond the Lethe to search for Hades.
Moreover, in the Divine Comedy, the stream is supposed to make you forget the sins of those who bathe in it. In Saint Seiya, the area between the underworld of Elysion plays a comparable role as "purified" it is not divine annihilation. *


dot dot fucking dot.


----------



## Gutts X3 (Jun 29, 2012)

Will Smith said:


> You have any proof of this. I posted a japanese translation of the scene where seiya and co pass through the Hyperdimension and it was much more closer with the English version. The Spanish version mentions Galaxies and Black Spots.



This is the official translation of the volumes, not the translation of the script in French. The version you uploaded in Japanese only were the numbers. The original is light years as the saint seiya pedia where the translation of saint seiya.


----------



## Will Smith (Jun 29, 2012)

zenieth said:


> *Relationship with the River LetheEdit
> 
> When Charon speaks of Elysion, reveals that the place is on the other side of Lethe,
> * Shaka with Athena explains that it was beyond the Lethe to search for Hades.
> ...



You can quote people poorly, we've already established that. Moving along, where does it state that Lethe is the Hyper Dimension? All it states is that Elysium is beyond the River Lethe. What's the River Lethe?


----------



## Will Smith (Jun 29, 2012)

Gutts X3 said:


> This is the official translation of the volumes, not the translation of the script in French. The version you uploaded in Japanese only were the numbers. The original is light years as the saint seiya pedia where the translation of saint seiya.



I'm talking about this:



This is incorrect translation.


----------



## Gutts X3 (Jun 29, 2012)

Will Smith said:


> I'm talking about this:
> 
> This is incorrect translation.



What is wrong galaxy are light years. Closest to the scans of anime that had placed. The placed on the saint seiya pedia.



Will Smith said:


> You can quote people poorly, we've already established that. Moving along, where does it state that Lethe is the Hyper Dimension? All it states is that Elysium is beyond the River Lethe. What's the River Lethe?



I've already had said.

It was suggested since it is the last frontier to cross into the Elysium. It even explains the symbolism.


----------



## Will Smith (Jun 29, 2012)

Gutts X3 said:


> What is wrong galaxy are light years. Closest to the scans of anime that had placed.



It mentions billions of Galaxies and Trillions of Black spots. 



Gutts X3 said:


> It was suggested since it is the last frontier to cross into the Elysium



You posted a map to show me Lethe. Where is Lethe on the map?


----------



## Gutts X3 (Jun 29, 2012)

Will Smith said:


> It mentions billions of Galaxies and Trillions of Black spots.
> 
> You posted a map to show me Lethe. Where is Lethe on the map?



This evil are light years. As says the saint seiya pedia or anime.

That map only narrates the course of battle. Only to the temple where Hades. It is Mentioned That is after the River Lethe Elysium. The Elysium is after the hyperdimension or super dimension  (only a name given by Seiya)


----------



## Will Smith (Jun 29, 2012)

Gutts X3 said:


> This evil are light years. As says the saint seiya pedia or anime.



But, not in the manga.




Gutts X3 said:


> That map only narrates the course of battle. Only to the temple where Hades.



But, is the river there? I see a river in the map, just like I did with the maps I posted.


----------



## zenieth (Jun 29, 2012)

Hyperdimension is Lethe.

It's the only thing noted separating Elysium and Hades.

Hell Hyperdimension isn't even the things name, no one calls it that other than the fandom.


----------



## Gutts X3 (Jun 29, 2012)

Will Smith said:


> But, not in the manga.
> 
> But, is the river there? I see a river in the map, just like I did with the maps I posted.



The saint seiya pedia is working the translation of saint seiya, more precise the user Archange.

I repeat it.

That map only narrates the course of battle. Only to the temple where Hades. The Elysium is after the River Lethe. The name of  hyperdimension or superdimension is only a name given by Seiya, when I look at the shape of the dimension.


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## Will Smith (Jun 30, 2012)

zenieth said:


> It's the only thing noted separating Elysium and Hades.
> .



Where is this noted?



Gutts X3 said:


> That map only narrates the course of battle. Only to the temple where Hades. The Elysium is after the River Lethe. The name of  hyperdimension or superdimension is only a name given by Seiya, when I look at the shape of the dimension.





zenieth said:


> Hell Hyperdimension isn't even the things name, no one calls it that other than the fandom.



It's called Path of the Gods by seiya


----------



## Gutts X3 (Jun 30, 2012)

Will Smith said:


> It's called Path of the Gods by seiya



Not him call, hiperdimension or superdimension (超次元) because of its shape, but it is a name given by Seiya.

But his real name is the River Lethe, according to the story.


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## Will Smith (Jun 30, 2012)

I'll take your word for it, Thanks for your time.


----------



## TheVectorPrime (Jul 1, 2012)

Will Smith said:


> I'll take your word for it, Thanks for your time.



Man you're rigth 100% . Point is that Saint Seiya is wanked as hell here. Best example of that is user Fang who evaded to post the valid scans in order to confirm his points.

As for the outcome both Herc and Mikaboshi solo this without any trouble at all. This Saint Seiya shit wanking knows no boundaries. They are now making it multiversal and in reality someone like Silver Surfer can solo the verse. 
Non of those fanboys here has red any SS manga and yet they present themselves like SS experts. Here is the link of the thread I made on Anime Vice which debunks part of lies.
let's see how frustrated he gets at my recent reply

Also just to ask those fanboys here. If Saint Seiya is as powerful as you claim why Pegasus Seiya wasn't even in top 10 strongest anime/manga protagonists ? You think you know better than Japanese fans ? And just for the record it was about PROTAGONISTS, not CHARACTERS. So TTGL and STTGL or Lord of Nightmares weren't included. Survey came before OVA 3 series of Tenchi Muyo so Tenchi wasn't number one since in OVA 3 series he becomes uber powerful. ANyway  original Siant Seiya manga came in 80's and is one of the most popular in Japan along with anime.


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## MDD (Jul 1, 2012)

LightHawkRetard said:
			
		

> And here comes the dumbass from animevice.


^

Ironic coming from you.


----------



## Ultra Instinct Vegito (Jul 1, 2012)

Cut the bullshit roman  or Dandy I know it's you.


----------



## TheVectorPrime (Jul 1, 2012)

MDD said:


> ^
> 
> Ironic coming from you.



Well said


----------



## Havoc (Jul 1, 2012)

Just a heads up to everyone, Fang doesn't know anything about comics.


----------



## Fang (Jul 1, 2012)

>still mad over Luke vs Doom thread

Havoc no one cares


----------



## Gutts X3 (Jul 1, 2012)

TheVectorPrime said:


> Man you're rigth 100% . Point is that Saint Seiya is wanked as hell here. Best example of that is user Fang who evaded to post the valid scans in order to confirm his points.
> 
> As for the outcome both Herc and Mikaboshi solo this without any trouble at all. This Saint Seiya shit wanking knows no boundaries. They are now making it multiversal and in reality someone like Silver Surfer can solo the verse.
> Non of those fanboys here has red any SS manga and yet they present themselves like SS experts. Here is the link of the thread I made on Anime Vice which debunks part of lies.



 Are you using a dreadful translation.

where I start

The translation is wrong, This talks about the genesis and origin of everything.



Galan was an aspiring gold saint, until he was punished by Aioros. Aioria not wearing armor (nor use it as it was thought too dangerous for Galan) or using your cosmo to protect themselves.

Surveys are just a lot of people, today still believe that Goku is the most powerful.


----------



## TheVectorPrime (Jul 1, 2012)

Gutts X3 said:


> where I start
> 
> The translation is wrong, This talks about the genesis and origin of everything.
> 
> ...



Here is what your Spanish scan states :

Link removed 

Spanish scan has the same text as English if anyone doubts he can use google translator. It states that in the beggining of Earth only Gaia exists which by the way proves that NO SAINT SEIYA CHARACTER HAS TRIGGERED BIG BANG, since Earth is only 4.6 billion years old, while big bang happened after 15 billion years. So you're fucking lie has been exposed. Here we have 
Dimension Ipetos comparing power of the Titans to NATURAL DISASTERS <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< universal level of power.
Wanking about Saint Seiya power is even greater than wank about GetBackers. So far the best feat shown in entire instaltment is Hades aligning the planets which was taking hours by the way and was titled as his greatest feat (for which he gathered power to achive in great amount of time, should be 200 years if includes Lost Canvas as cannon). So there goes Hades creator of the universe who needs "powering up" just to align several planets. 
Face it fanboy, OBD lies about Saint Seiya have been exposed, each they less and less people belive in this OBD shit about Saint Seiya which needs major edit. OBD wiki is very good at presenting overall power of characters too bad it's overrun with assholes like you !!!


----------



## TheVectorPrime (Jul 1, 2012)

Gutts X3 said:


> An idiot who has not even seen saint seiya complete. Are you using a dreadful translation.
> 
> where I start
> 
> ...



Since I forgot to post the link when Ipetos states that their power(Divine Power aka Dunamis) is comparable to natural disasters here it is : 
Link removed


----------



## Fang (Jul 1, 2012)

>HK            scans


----------



## Gutts X3 (Jul 1, 2012)

TheVectorPrime said:


> Go fuck yourself asshole. Here is what your Spanish scan states..........................



When mention is made of earth, talk about the genesis the origin of all. That is in the Hypermyth, which says that Chronos (Aion) generated the big bang.

Is only compared their power to make a difference. Just as Misty different marks, to compare them with a lion and an ant.

With the strength of a gold saint. Which can lift a weight equivalent to that of millions of stars or part of  the universe.


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## TheVectorPrime (Jul 1, 2012)

Gutts X3 said:


> When mention is made of earth, talk about the genesis the origin of all. That is in the Hypermyth, which says that Chronos (Aion) generated the big bang.
> 
> Is only compared their power to make a difference. Just as Misty different marks, to compare them with a lion and an ant.



Ok I dare you to post text from Hypermyth which confirms that.


----------



## Gutts X3 (Jul 1, 2012)

TheVectorPrime said:


> Ok I dare you to post text from Hypermyth which confirms that.



But is unlikely to receive a retcon in the future.

L'?re de la cr?ation de l'univers

C[h]ronos, le Dieu primordial du Temps

D'apr?s l'Hypermythe, la naissance de l'univers du au Big Bang aurait une sorte lien ind?fini avec C[h]ronos. Mais pourtant la mythologie grecque, fait de Cronos le p?re de Zeus... 

One part:


----------



## TheVectorPrime (Jul 1, 2012)

Gutts X3 said:


> But is unlikely to receive a retcon in the future.
> 
> L'?re de la cr?ation de l'univers
> 
> ...



Ok you're posting spanish translations of English translations. I wanted a scan from Hypermyth not link to site which translates what English sites state. Thing you posted only states : that going by Hypermyth Chronus triggers the Big bang. Point is that Hypermyth only exists in Japanese it hasn't been translated. Those info in Enlgish is wrong. Since Chronus was born nafter Earth was created. I've seen some users claim that those are actually two different character Chronos and Chronus, but that's a bull since there is zero evidance to support that. By the way here is the link to one of the Saint Seiya fandome sites. Those guys know everything about SS and yet they don't think that Saint Seiya is no where near powerful as OBD claims.

Here .


----------



## Gutts X3 (Jul 1, 2012)

TheVectorPrime said:


> Ok you're posting spanish translations of English translations...........................



Do not know where you draw the creation of the earth when talking about the genesis the origin of everything, you only based on a bad translation. That is the Hypermyth.

There are still fans of Transformers who believe that they lose with Naruto or Dragon Ball in many forums, that means nothing.


----------



## TheVectorPrime (Jul 1, 2012)

Gutts X3 said:


> But is unlikely to receive a retcon in the future.
> 
> L'?re de la cr?ation de l'univers
> 
> ...



Also about Hypermyth : Here .

and this : Here . - which furthere proves contradictions with every manga instaltment.


----------



## Gutts X3 (Jul 1, 2012)

TheVectorPrime said:


> Also about Hypermyth : Here .
> 
> and this : Here . - which furthere proves contradictions with every manga instaltment.



As I said the Hypermyth has received some retcon. But nothing that contradicts this event.

But I do not Understand what they say on that page. Ikki so far is the first phoenix saint, including travel to the past, this happens when you have not read the whole story. Noting that Dohko and Shion were promoted were not the 88 Cloths.

Stop trying, I have read all Saint Seiya.


----------



## TheVectorPrime (Jul 1, 2012)

Gutts X3 said:


> As I said the Hypermyth has received some retcon. But nothing that contradicts this event.
> 
> But I do not Understand what they say on that page. Ikki so far is the first phoenix saint, including travel to the past, this happens when you have not read the whole story. Noting that Dohko and Shion were promoted were not the 88 Cloths.
> 
> Stop trying, I have read all Saint Seiya.



If you actually red the Saint Seiya you would know that all 88 clothes were used in First Holy War and Holy war which preceeded the Holy War in 20th century. I'll adress other things tommorow since it's very late in my time zone and I have exam tommorow.


----------



## Gutts X3 (Jul 1, 2012)

TheVectorPrime said:


> If you actually red the Saint Seiya you would know that all 88 clothes were used in First Holy War and Holy war which preceeded the Holy War in 20th century. I'll adress other things tommorow since it's very late in my time zone and I have exam tommorow.



Never was it said in the story, I showed that I was wrong. Dohko and Shion were promoted in gold saint, his former cloth not participate in war. So far there is nothing to the contrary in the Next Dimension.

You are placing a forum link of the 2009 and 2011. When I use current information of the last chapters. The problem is that you know nothing of saint seiya.


----------



## Id (Jul 1, 2012)

I can understand, members questioning feats or material.....and be very expressive in their argument.

But flaming isn't allowed. Ok Gutts, Vector Prime, and anyone else?


Locking to do some editing, will open up in a few minutes.


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## Id (Jul 1, 2012)

Open for business.


----------



## TheVectorPrime (Jul 1, 2012)

Gutts X3 said:


> Never was it said in the story, I showed that I was wrong. Dohko and Shion were promoted in gold saint, his former cloth not participate in war. So far there is nothing to the contrary in the Next Dimension.
> 
> You are placing a forum link of the 2009 and 2011. When I use current information of the last chapters. The problem is that you know nothing of saint seiya.




I decided to do it tonight. So let's clear all things up. 

First of all if you're such hardcore Saint Seiya fan you should know that Hypermyth was printed only 2 times and there were no RETCONNES. First time it was in Cosmo Special and later reprinted in Tokumori magazine. And it was referenced in Saint Seiya Encyclopedia.

Furthere. You claim that Gold Saints have strength so vast that it enables them to lift weight equal to millions of stars or even to some parts of the universe. That's a MAJOR LIE or maybe rumor you heard (which will prove that you haven't read the mangas). Gold Saints are physicla weakling even Bronze Saints from Galaxian Wars have better strength feats. Bronze Cloth shatters when 4tons are aplied (in hades arc it was upgraded with Athena's blood so we can say it became tougher), and yet Gold Siants couldn't shatter it with single strike. Heck if they had such vast strength they could easily destroy the Earth just with a simple touch from their fingers. And even relativistic laws don't apply to GS moving at light speed. Since they failed to destroy a pillar only made a crack. With all of their strength all they can do is produce a 2m in diameter craters in rock with their fists. I'm being generous when I say that they are 20 tonners maximum. But they do have good hax compensates low strength.

Durability, again to very low. Take from example Galan vs Aiolia. Possesed Galan hurt Leo badly. Not to mention that Galan also commented in Episode G that Saints withou an armour are ordinary humans. So far Episode G is the weakest out of all Saint Seiya mangas. Boluder can kill them even temples collapsing can kill them (Hades Arc). Low altitudes can kill them.

Furthere
YOu can't find a single scan which shows them destroying an actual planet, let alone above planetary destruction. Kanon vs Rhdamanthus has Kanon using galaxian explosion to kill Rhadamanthus. And we all know that when GE is used illusions of planets appear charging into opponent (evidance that they are illusions can be find many times through manga, Saga fighting inside a temple, planets are also smaller than opponent so therefore illusion 100%), and that was used as a legit planet busting. I'm refering to instance when Kanon sends his cloth to Wailing Wall.

Aries Mu vs Dimension Iapetos it didn't feature Ipeots creating another universe and Mu destroying it. Iapetos used Dimensional Rift(Khora Temnei) which oppens portal to another pocket dimension. That portal was smaller than temple. Size of the portal was roughly as big as Hechantochire summoned by Iapetos. Mu destroyed that portal. And in paper edition of Episode G Iapetos mentions that ortal i created has been destroyed by that light instead of my dimension/universe, which is mentioned in online manga. Funny thing is that you're claiming English trans. are wrong and yet you use translation of online Episode G which are full of grammar mistakes. That's hipocricy. And Hyperion and Iapetos creating star and planet is a lie also since those "celestial bodies'' were smaller than temples.

About Hyper/Super Dimension, only Spanish scans mention billions of galaxies and trillions of dark spots. Original japanese say 10 000 000 000 light and English scans state 10 000 000 000 miles giving us definite measure. But the best source for distance of Underworld-Hyperdimension diameter is when Thanatos states that he will kill Seika (Seiya's sister) even if she is lightyears (online Enlglish translations are hyping statin dozen lightyears) away from him. Thanatos was in Elysion and Seika on Earth. Underworld and Hyperdimension were separating them. Some fanboys argue and say thanatos was refering to Pandora. Even than it proves my point since Thanatos was in Elysion and Pandora was at the Wailing wall when he killed here. So Hyperdimension was separating them and Thanatos states that it has a diameter of several lightyears. Not to mention that map of Underworld was already posted and it's very small. Furthere you claimed River Acheron is the same as Hyperdimension, and that is lie since you presented Charon's talking about Elysium as evidance that they were at the borders of it. So I CAUGHT YOU LYING AGAIN. Crossing of river Acheron happend before Bronze Saints even came to Wailling Wall liar. Also Hades didn't created Hyperdimension such thing wasn't stated.

Also the only time galaxian explosion was stated as galaxy buster was in Episode G, too bad it was online translation. Original paper manga of Episode G doesn't say such thing. Also how can something with galaxy busting power be unable to destroy a wall ? Or to destroy a bronze cloth which cracks at 4tons ? Or to kill a Bronze Saint who can die from several tons boulder falling down on him ? You see Galaxian explosion doesn't have galaxy busitng power.

And all 12 Gold Saints when united their power and burned their cosmos to max only managed to REPLICATE POWER OF THE SUN ON SMALL SCALE !!! And died in the process. Also don't come with " only Sun's rays could pierce the Wailling Wall" since they didn't produce Sun's rays they only FOCUSED THE SMALL AMOUNT OF SUN'S POWER THEY PRODUCED IN AIOROS'S ARROW POWERING IT UP IN ORDER TO BUST WAILING WALL. SO THEY ONLY CREATED POWER OF SUN ON SMALL SCALE.

Furthere Marin stated that Sun can harm Hades and that he is afraid of it. A universal + Hades being afraid of Sun ? A universal + Hades creator of the universes but who's only goal is to conquer the Earth ? A universal + hades who needs powering up just in order to aligh some planets ? And evidance for Hades being universal + is that he stated Elysion and Underworld will be destroyed if he dies also. Gimme a break he for sure ISN'T UNIVERSAL + . His greates feat and the GREATES FEAT IN ENTIRE SAINT SEIYA FICTION is him atempting to align the planets , which took hours and failed in the end. Silver Surfer has better feats than this. Anyway that feat of Hades puts Saint Seiya verse close to Dragon Ball in terms of power.

And how can Athena be universal or universal + if HADES STATED THAT SHE WILL DIE ALSO IF SHE IS CAUGHT IN DESTRUCTION OF ELYSION ???

So far the best detsructive feat in Saint Seiya is Saga causing small island to fall apart. 

As for general level, Gold Saint are below HST top tier. Kizaru can defeat everyone of them. Only problem migh be Shaka

So everything has been adressed and more importanlty I CAN PROVE ANYTHING I SAID WITH SCANS. You're lies are debunked. I wonder if anyone here is going to listen or to bother check what I post. TO REPEAT I CAN PROVE ANYTHING I POSTED AND EVEN THINGS I HAVEN'T POSTED YET WITH SCANS. I CAN SHOW TO ALL OF YOU THAT SAINT SEIYA WAS AS WANKED AS GETBACKERS (MAYBE EVEN MORE) WITH SCANS. SO ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS ASK. ASK ME TO POST ANYTHING YOU WANT ABOUT SAINT SEIYA AND I PROMISED I WILL POST EVERTHYNG FROM MANGAS.

P.S. I used Caps Look in order for members to see more important parts of posts, since it's the best way to show them. I didn't had intention to break the rules or to make it sound as if i'm yealling.


----------



## TheVectorPrime (Jul 1, 2012)

Meyer Lansky said:


> Open for business.



You sound like a reasonable debater, so will you at least read what I posted ?


----------



## Gutts X3 (Jul 1, 2012)

TheVectorPrime said:


> I decided to do it tonight. So let's clear all things up.
> 
> First of all if you're such hardcore Saint Seiya fan you should know that Hypermyth was printed only 2 times and there were no RETCONNES. First time it was in Cosmo Special and later reprinted in Tokumori magazine. And it was referenced in Saint Seiya Encyclopedia.........................



It is part of Saint Seiya. Want to deny an event that happened in the story which is told in the Hypermith. Advantage of knowing a language such as Spanish and some French, where is translated in its entirety.

That was the beginning of the series as Bronze Saint. There is much difference between Gold Saint and Bronze Saint. Were improved armor by Mu to support their struggle in the Twelve Houses. The saints became stronger as I advance the story. Just as many character to fight over the land without destroying it. 


With the strength of a gold saint. Which can lift a weight equivalent to that of millions of stars or part of  the universe.


Already explained, Galan was an aspiring gold saint, until he was punished by Aioros. Aioria not wearing armor (nor use it as it was thought too dangerous for Galan) or using your cosmo to protect themselves. They were under the sweep of Hades.

The Titans created the universes and used the planets and stars as a combat weapon. That was a universe, it completely destroys Mu inclusibe was observed when destroyed (Ivrea translations).

*Spoiler*: __ 








I had already placed the translation was wrong, as are light years is placed in saint seiya pedia.



> The Saint Seiya Pedia (where is the translation of Saint Seiya)
> 
> Elysion est ce qui dans le domaine d'Had?s repr?sente le paradis. Ce monde appartenant ? une autre dimension se situe au del? du Mur des lamentations et ne peut ?tre atteint qu'apr?s avoir parcouru entre dix milliard et cent milliard d'ann?es lumi?res. Le contraste avec l'Enfer est total, ce paradis ?tant rempli de fleurs et de clart?.
> 
> The translation of sub in spanish of the anime.



The original version does not give any measure, you only based on a bad translation. Through countless light years, as I did with Pandora.


The map only narrates the course of the battle, as I said is lethe, hyperdimension name is not even just the name that was given by its shape. With the destruction of their world

The Episode G, Taizen and Lost Canvas say the same translates it so. Hades does not damage the sun, hate it. Only sunlight can destroy the wall

I only see you are angry that not even shown to know something about Saint Seiya.


----------



## Id (Jul 1, 2012)

TheVectorPrime said:


> Furthere. You claim that Gold Saints have strength so vast that it enables them to lift weight equal to millions of stars or even to some parts of the universe. That's a MAJOR LIE or maybe rumor you heard (which will prove that you haven't read the mangas). Gold Saints are physicla weakling even Bronze Saints from Galaxian Wars have better strength feats. Bronze Cloth shatters when 4tons are aplied (in hades arc it was upgraded with Athena's blood so we can say it became tougher), and yet Gold Siants couldn't shatter it with single strike. Heck if they had such vast strength they could easily destroy the Earth just with a simple touch from their fingers. And even relativistic laws don't apply to GS moving at light speed. Since they failed to destroy a pillar only made a crack. With all of their strength all they can do is produce a 2m in diameter craters in rock with their fists. I'm being generous when I say that they are 20 tonners maximum. But they do have good hax compensates low strength.



Its difficult to gauge their strength of the Gold Saints, when we have little to gauge them from. These are not characters that go around, bench pressing planets or hip tossing stars. So at least from my part. I never attempted to clock their base strength. 

However the force behind their strikes are excessively high, due to their strike exceeding light speed.  Making the case that their durability must scale, if they are able to withstand such strikes.

Being a topic opened for cross genre, and using DC as a point of reference. In DC, the Flash Family calls these strikes infinite mass punch. And they easily stagger top physical bricks such as Superman.

The same concept of Infinite Mass Punch, is also brought up in Saint Seiya.

I really dont see, anyone in the HST that can keep with Gold Saint level characters. Or survive that added element to atomically deconstruct matter on physical level alone. Some form high grade armor, or shielding would be necessary.


----------



## Strange of Eternity (Jul 1, 2012)

TheVectorPrime said:


> I decided to do it tonight. So let's clear all things up. .....



Post this in the meta with the scans you claim it can prove it, lets se how far u get.


----------



## Havoc (Jul 2, 2012)

Fang said:


> >still mad over Luke vs Doom thread
> 
> Havoc no one cares


Why would I be mad that Doom massacres Luke?

The only comic Fang has read is Garfield.


----------



## Fang (Jul 2, 2012)

That doesn't make sense, Luke won, you mongrel.

Reported.


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## TheVectorPrime (Jul 2, 2012)

Gutts X3 said:


> It is part of Saint Seiya. Want to deny an event that happened in the story which is told in the Hypermith. Advantage of knowing a language such as Spanish and some French, where is translated in its entirety.
> 
> That was the beginning of the series as Bronze Saint. There is much difference between Gold Saint and Bronze Saint. Were improved armor by Mu to support their struggle in the Twelve Houses. The saints became stronger as I advance the story. Just as many character to fight over the land without destroying it.
> 
> ...




Haha, you're caught liar !!! You claimed that on Spanish scans Thanatos stated COUNTLESS LIGHT YEARS, when actually he states A CUANTOS ANOS LUZ which means a few light years (who doesn't belive can check him/herself). So that proves again how big liar you are. Also the frames you posted from Hades arc state: millions of light years and after thousand darkness. What bad grammar  . This only proves that those subs are fan edited. Not to mention that site from which you took scans is FAMOUS FOR SCAN EDITING. You also tried to post Atlas's feat as feat of Gold Saint. Nice try but you failed. By the way normal Hercules (who fights with Avengers) has feats of supporting sky. I can post 2 scans showing that. 
By the way what makes you think you can say that Spanish scans are better than English scans. You have zero evidance for that.
By the way second US dub done AVD films is the ONLY DUB WHICH IS UNCUTTED AND feats to canon Japanese. About manga US manga is 100% accuratte Japanese translated. So go lie somewhere else fanboy. You lack arguments so you can only stick to lies but it will effect your credibility not mine. By the way your English sucks and you contradict yourself in your posts


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## TheVectorPrime (Jul 2, 2012)

Meyer Lansky said:


> Its difficult to gauge their strength of the Gold Saints, when we have little to gauge them from. These are not characters that go around, bench pressing planets or hip tossing stars. So at least from my part. I never attempted to clock their base strength.
> 
> However the force behind their strikes are excessively high, due to their strike exceeding light speed.  Making the case that their durability must scale, if they are able to withstand such strikes.
> 
> ...



Than tell me how is than possible for Bronze saint and Bronze cloth (which cracks when 4 tons is aplied), even before upgrade with Athena's blood to survive and be undamaged by full power strike of the Gold Siant ? Fact is that even Flash's IMP is definite. It has a power of the Neutron Star. But unlike Flash in non of the Saint Seiya mangas was stated that punch of the Gold Saint will have same effect as Flash's IMP punch. That's simply your asumption which can't be based on anything since such thing wasn't stated. And if we aply actual science in Saint Seiya than 99% of the feats is invalid. So you can't aply science for one part and dismiss it for other, that's double standard. When we aply our asumptions that's becoming fan fiction. Feats are what metter the most. And by feats we can power scale. But problem with Saint Seiya is that character A didn's bust a planet in order for character B to be power scaled as planet buster. Check every manga and see if you can find such statement (about similarities with IMP), since borden of proof is on you . If you find it I'll recall my statement.


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## TheVectorPrime (Jul 2, 2012)

Strange of Eternity said:


> Post this in the meta with the scans you claim it can prove it, lets se how far u get.



Be little more precise. You want something specific or just to start from the beggining with debunk ?


----------



## Ultra Instinct Vegito (Jul 2, 2012)

I dare you to try to debunk it in the meta.


----------



## Gutts X3 (Jul 2, 2012)

TheVectorPrime said:


> Haha, you're caught liar !!! You claimed that on Spanish scans Thanatos stated COUNTLESS LIGHT YEARS, when actually he states A CUANTOS ANOS LUZ which means a few light years (who doesn't belive can check him/herself). So that proves again how big liar you are. Also the frames you posted from Hades arc state: millions of light years and after thousand darkness. What bad grammar ................................



Tanathos: No matter how many light years this, ........ Pandora. Never said they were few, there is no measure. 

It is a feat of Gold Saint, there are stars and they say the same amount. The weight of the technique is still higher .

You only based on a bad translation. The original is light years away, a few pages back had correctly translated the numbers. The translation is better because there are more fans, who speak Spanish who care about making a good translation, for something completely translated  saint seiya..



TheVectorPrime said:


> Than tell me how is than possible for Bronze saint and Bronze cloth (which cracks when 4 tons is aplied), even before upgrade with Athena's blood to survive and be undamaged by full power strike of the Gold Siant ? Fact is that even Flash's IMP is definite. It has a power of the Neutron Star. But unlike Flash in non of the Saint Seiya mangas was stated that punch of............................



You basa in a feat of the first volume for a forage as the Bear Saint. When the bronze saints became stronger, their armor was improved to support the fighting of the twelve houses (you place the image).


----------



## mali (Jul 2, 2012)

No, dont make a thread in the Meta.

The symbiote stays in this thread.


----------



## TheVectorPrime (Jul 2, 2012)

Gutts X3 said:


> Tanathos: No matter how many light years this, ........ Pandora. Never said they were few, there is no measure.
> 
> It is a feat of Gold Saint, there are stars and they say the same amount. The weight of the technique is still higher .
> 
> ...



You can't make it better foryourself. You lied to much in this thread. Myabe you just posted rumors which you heard- but that means you haven't read the manga. Try debunk anything I said with scans. Ups you can't  .

P.S. Since I forgot to adress this in previous posts I must do it now. There are fictions which are part of Transformars verse and are (vastly) inferior to even Naruto. Best example is Beast Wars.


----------



## Id (Jul 2, 2012)

TheVectorPrime said:


> Than tell me how is than possible for Bronze saint and Bronze cloth (which cracks when 4 tons is aplied), even before upgrade with Athena's blood to survive and be undamaged by full power strike of the Gold Siant ?.



The cloths also have an aura that buffer an attack. 



TheVectorPrime said:


> Fact is that even Flash's IMP is definite. It has a power of the Neutron Star. But unlike Flash in non of the Saint Seiya mangas was stated that punch of the Gold Saint will have same effect as Flash's IMP punch. That's simply your asumption which can't be based on anything since such thing wasn't stated.



Let me make it clear, that I was drawing a point of reference. Not borrowing a feat. The claim stands on its own legs, on its own statement. 

Force created behind their strikes increase, as their speed increase.

I see a pattern that you are quick to dismiss claims from Saint Seiya, but fall back when its from another source. In this case DC. 



> And if we aply actual science in Saint Seiya than 99% of the feats is invalid. So you can't aply science for one part and dismiss it for other, that's double standard. When we aply our asumptions that's becoming fan fiction. Feats are what metter the most. And by feats we can power scale. But problem with Saint Seiya is that character A didn's bust a planet in order for character B to be power scaled as planet buster. Check every manga and see if you can find such statement (about similarities with IMP), since borden of proof is on you . If you find it I'll recall my statement.


Ah ok so the burden of proof falls on me? here



*Spoiler*: __ 



*"The Saints of Athena are warriors, after a difficult trainings, gain the ability to burn their cosmo from within, and by result obtain an extra ordinary destructive power. Within the 88 Saints of Athena, those are at the very top of hierarchy the Gold Saints. 

The formula that represents energy is "E=mc2". Generally, a Bronze Saint moves at mach 1, its to say he can throw 100 strikes per second. The Silver Saints are at a superior rank. They move at speed of mach 2 to mach 5. By those numbers its possible to imagine the destructive power power, of their strikes of those Saints. While the Gold Saints are the miraculous warriors. They can move at the speed of light. The superiority of an attack, struck at the speed of light needs no explanation. "*
Link removed




As you can see, Saint Seiya also uses the idea that force increases, as mas gains speed.


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## Endless Mike (Jul 2, 2012)

Why isn't this guy banned yet?


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## Im The Evil Mastermind (Jul 2, 2012)

Disagreeing with what you say dosent mean they have to be banned.


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## Endless Mike (Jul 2, 2012)

He's obviously a sign-up troll from another forum


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## Fang (Jul 2, 2012)

In Episode G Aiolia and Shura were flying into planets being augmented by the Titan's Dunamis (matter manipulation on an atomic scale) that were being turned into miniaturized shields and busting them simply by flying at the speed of light


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## Im The Evil Mastermind (Jul 2, 2012)

He made an entire thing about Saint Seiya on another forum. He's not Dupe-kun who has been proven wrong repeatedly. So the least that can be done is to actually prove him wrong instead of just immediately going to ban him.


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## Seyta (Jul 2, 2012)

Endless Mike said:


> He's obviously a sign-up troll from another forum



The link he tried to post as proof on Animevice more or less confirms it, considering the poster he cites shares his username



TheVectorPrime said:


> Man you're rigth 100% . Point is that Saint Seiya is wanked as hell here. Best example of that is user Fang who evaded to post the valid scans in order to confirm his points.
> 
> As for the outcome both Herc and Mikaboshi solo this without any trouble at all. This Saint Seiya shit wanking knows no boundaries. They are now making it multiversal and in reality someone like Silver Surfer can solo the verse.
> Non of those fanboys here has red any SS manga and yet they present themselves like SS experts. Here is the link of the thread I made on Anime Vice which debunks part of lies.
> ...



Honestly, I haven't really bothered reading the first few pages of this thread because I know virtually nothing about comics, but I was a bit surprised that it lasted this long.

To "The Vector Prime", it's all fine and dandy to utilize information from another forum to bolster your point, but the method by which you're doing it is a bit counterintuitive.
When you cite another Forum in your argument, try and make sure that the post from the other Forum that you're citing is not your own.

That defeats the purpose of using an external source as a method of proof.

More importantly however, it's a lost cause when you attempt to "debunk" one Forum's standing interpretation of a character or series, because each forum functions differently with respect to most anime/manga involved.

For instance, some Forums use character statements from Dragonball GT as a legitimate source of information regarding the strength of Toriyami's original characters. Their argument tends to be that the GT shares the names and characters of the original, and to them, it doesn't matter that Toriyami was not the one who created the actual storyline. Others believe that Bleach characters auto-win fights against 99% of fictions they're placed against because Shinigami are invisible to humans within Bleach.

Would posters on the majority of forums call them idiots? Yes.
Will they ever admit to being idiots? No. Because to them, it makes perfect sense, and it's everyone else that's an idiot.

There are people out there who believe that Naruto vs. Goku is a good fight, and others who think that SSJ Vegetto can wipe out universes based on the fact that "he was way stronger than Buu!"
Trying to convince them otherwise isn't worth the effort.

In the same manner, we could try to convince you that your interpretation of Saint Seiya is riddled with numerous inconsistencies and omit key pieces of information, but we'd likely have just as much success as you are on this thread. 

So please do us a favor. Don't be like Dupe-Kun who thinks it's his God-given mission to prove that the only character in Dragonball who can destroy a planet is Majin Buu, and give up what is a wasted effort.

It'll save MANY people a lot of headaches.


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## Id (Jul 2, 2012)

Endless Mike said:


> Why isn't this guy banned yet?





Endless Mike said:


> He's obviously a sign-up troll from another forum



We attract members from other battle boards. That's a given. 

And many happen to be passionate about their argument. That's fairly common. 

They are not exactly grounds for punishment.


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## willyvereb (Jul 2, 2012)

I can't spot any explicit sings that he's a troll so I cannot ban him. More like I won't. I'm aalways consistent with my methods regarding that.


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## Havoc (Jul 2, 2012)

Who is Meyer?

Anyway, Herc wins.

They all get a super kick to the nuts.


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## Fang (Jul 2, 2012)

Saga wins 10/10 anyway


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## willyvereb (Jul 2, 2012)

Havoc said:


> Who is Meyer


 He's a "new" recruit.

**


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## Saint Saga (Jul 2, 2012)

Fang said:


> Saga wins 10/10 anyway



That goes without saying .


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## TheVectorPrime (Jul 2, 2012)

Meyer Lansky said:


> The cloths also have an aura that buffer an attack.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



First of all, thanks for the scan. It doesn't matter that it's from Saint Seiya Encyclopedia and not from manga I'll take it as a valid evidance. Unlike others in this thread you've shown that you know to back up your statements. And I respect that. Anyway I must be a little troblemaker and say that their punches can't be compared diretcly to IMP nor does it state that Punches of Gold Saints will have infinite energy. By the way that wasn't the thing you claim, but I just mentioned it because of the other users. Also formula used here is Einstain's E=mc2 can't really be used like that , see this for in dept explanation 

To me it looks like that it follows the pattern of kinetic energy in classic physics you know Ek = mv^2 / 2 . Also pleanty of feats from manga are in contradiction with this. Especially when Bronze Saints (before upgrade) could endure punches, and special aura didn't protect Bronze Clothe when 4 tons of force were aplied on it  .


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## TheVectorPrime (Jul 2, 2012)

Some sort of zombie said:


> He made an entire thing about Saint Seiya on another forum. He's not Dupe-kun who has been proven wrong repeatedly. So the least that can be done is to actually prove him wrong instead of just immediately going to ban him.



Thanks for the support !


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## TheVectorPrime (Jul 2, 2012)

Seyta said:


> The link he tried to post as proof on Animevice more or less confirms it, considering the poster he cites shares his username
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Is it really so hard to admit that Saint Seiya has been extremly overrated here ? OBD wiki is the most popular source of info on net now, so my opinion is it should have accurate informations.
Anyway you're right about one thing, this really is a headache, since only few posters red what i posted. Other immediatelly started attacking me as soon as they saw SAINT SEIYA IS OVERRATED in my post. They didn't even tried to read what i stated. And those are examples of valid debaters ? No those are examples of fanboys who want to wank their favorite fiction. 

P.S. For mods I have to adress post, by post since for some reason multi-quote button won't work.


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## Ultra Instinct Vegito (Jul 2, 2012)

Nobody is wanking saint seiya here.


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## Gutts X3 (Jul 3, 2012)

TheVectorPrime said:


> You can't make it better foryourself. You lied to much in this thread. Myabe you just posted rumors which you heard- but that means you haven't read the manga. Try debunk anything I said with scans. Ups you can't  .



You are just proving that you have not read Saint Seiya. Every time I say something I place the images that you seem to ignore is your problem..

Beast of War is more powerful than Naruto, a great example of people who do not know a serie, but irrelevant.



> Especially when Bronze Saints (before upgrade) could endure punches, and special aura didn't protect Bronze Clothe when 4 tons of force were aplied on it .



I say it again. You basa in a feat of the first volume for a forage as the bear saint. When the bronze saints became stronger, their armor was improved to support the fighting against the gold saints. (place pictures)

Is it really so difficult to admit that you have not read Saint Seiya.


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## Havoc (Jul 3, 2012)

I haven't read every page yet, have we all agreed Herc wins?


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## TheVectorPrime (Jul 3, 2012)

Gutts X3 said:


> You are just proving that you have not read Saint Seiya. Every time I say something I place the images that you seem to ignore is your problem..
> 
> Beast of War is more powerful than Naruto, a great example of people who do not know a serie, but irrelevant.
> 
> ...



And you're only proving how big liar you are.


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## TheVectorPrime (Jul 3, 2012)

Havoc said:


> I haven't read every page yet, have we all agreed Herc wins?



Yes we all agree that Herc stomps entire Saint Seiya verse easily. This is one of the worst one-sided matches I've seen and it should be locked immediatelly. By the way OBD overhyped Saint Seiya. Example: In manga all Gold Saints were stated as equal, there were some minor gaps in power between them but only Gold Saints and gods could notice those gaps. To Silver and Bronze Saints, Goldies appear totaly equal to themselves in power. Yet OBD claims that less powerful Goldies are multi-star(which by the way is total lie and can't be based on anything) and more powerful Goldies are galaxy+. Multi-star means anywhere from 2-11 stars. More than that is dozen (12) or more than dozen (above 12). Anyway our galaxy(which is smaller spiral galaxy by the way) has 100 000 000 000 stars. That would mean more powerful Goldies are billions of times more powerful than lesser Goldies. That extremly large gap, and not minimal. See the point ? And than we have jumping to universal for God Saints. Again universe has hundreds of billions of galaxies. Those are extremly large gaps, not to metnion that powerscailing isn't based on actual feats...


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## Ultra Instinct Vegito (Jul 4, 2012)

Vector prime prove everyone wrong   in the meta or just  don't continue bitching.  You always wine about how everyone wanks Saint Seiya yet you  can't even make a simple thread providing evidence why people are wrong about Saint Seiya. I also can't believe it affects you that much what people say about Saint Seiya.


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## Will Smith (Jul 4, 2012)

Light Hawk Wings said:


> Nobody is wanking saint seiya here.



There are people claiming they can beat multiversal+ beings [Super Herc and Chaos King] If that's not wank then I dunno what is.




Light Hawk Wings said:


> Vector prime prove everyone wrong   in the meta or just  don't continue bitching.  You always wine about how everyone wanks Saint Seiya yet you  can't even make a simple thread providing evidence why people are wrong about Saint Seiya. I also can't believe it affects you that much what people say about Saint Seiya.





Here's the thread:


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## Will Smith (Jul 4, 2012)

TheVectorPrime said:


> -snip-



You should organize your post with scans, nobody likes walls of texts.


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## TheVectorPrime (Jul 4, 2012)

Will Smith said:


> You should organize your post with scans, nobody likes walls of texts.



Did you edit my post  ? I haven't post -snip- in amy of my posts.


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