# Jack vs Logan



## Jag77 (Aug 18, 2015)

Raiden (Metal Gear Rising) vs Wolverine (Marvel) 

So...I dunno how many of yall heard about this. 
But Screwattack just announced Raiden vs Wolverine... 

And I have 20$ at stake...So tell me. 
How does my boy Raiden fair. 

Bloodlusted. 

Manhattan.


----------



## puolakanaho (Aug 18, 2015)

raiden wins in speed i think..but i doubt he can dish out enough damage to hurt logan....

edit: also ill bet my bottom dollar derp attack will claim armstrongs durability is the same as wolverines durability.


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 18, 2015)

Couldn't Logan just wear him out?

Raiden ain't cutting adamantium that's for sure.


----------



## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 18, 2015)

Wolverine just stands there until Raiden is without energy, then pierces him in the head .


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 18, 2015)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Wolverine just stands there until Raiden is without energy, then pierces him in the head .



How much you wanna bet DB's gonna have Raiden win? 

"Wolverine's adamantium is like Armstrong's nanomachine armor, Raiden couldn't break it but he got Sam's sword which could cut it therefore it can do the same to Wolverine's adamantium"



Unless Sam's sword can legitimately ignore conventional durability (which is even then in itself usually a debatable subject if its only through a statement) or is made of vibranium. Logan ends him


----------



## Iwandesu (Aug 18, 2015)

raiden is faster and stronger but can't get through adamantium so he will likely be eventually killed


----------



## Kuzehiko (Aug 18, 2015)

Wolverine... he can regenerate no matter how much the damage is as much as his head is not cut he is mostly immortal thanks to his fast healing and he can use his metal claws to counter and kill. Raiden can't endure him.


----------



## MAPSK (Aug 18, 2015)

Wolverine can regenerate endlessly and Raiden can't cut his adamantium skeleton, so this pretty much becomes a retarded standstill where Raiden spends months chopping away at an invulnerable skeleton who can in no way fight back or do anything except heal until Raiden runs out of batteries and goes offline. Or whatever the fuck it is cyborgs do.

At that point, I'm pretty sure _no one_ wins 

On the topic of Death Battle though, they're totally going to have Raiden win this for pretty much every reason already stated in this thread.


----------



## Imagine (Aug 18, 2015)

Wolvie vs Raiden in the next DB?


----------



## puolakanaho (Aug 18, 2015)

MAPSK said:


> Wolverine can regenerate endlessly and Raiden can't cut his adamantium skeleton, so this pretty much becomes a retarded standstill where Raiden spends months chopping away at an invulnerable skeleton who can in no way fight back or do anything except heal until Raiden runs out of batteries and goes offline. Or whatever the fuck it is cyborgs do.
> 
> At that point, I'm pretty sure _no one_ wins
> 
> On the topic of Death Battle though, they're totally going to have Raiden win this for pretty much every reason already stated in this thread.



at the point raiden is done hacking away he loses... there is no way he will survive a hit from logans adamantium claws.


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 18, 2015)

MAPSK said:


> Wolverine can regenerate endlessly and Raiden can't cut his adamantium skeleton, so this pretty much becomes a retarded standstill where Raiden spends months chopping away at an invulnerable skeleton who can in no way fight back or do anything except heal until Raiden runs out of batteries and goes offline. Or whatever the fuck it is cyborgs do.
> 
> At that point, I'm pretty sure _no one_ wins
> 
> On the topic of Death Battle though, they're totally going to have Raiden win this for pretty much every reason already stated in this thread.



Raiden has limited stamina he'll get worn out and that's assuming he can even survive that long. Wolverine likely catches him off-guard with his stealth or just rams his claws through Raiden's head when he gets a blade through his gut.


----------



## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 18, 2015)

What is Raiden's speed ?


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 18, 2015)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> What is Raiden's speed ?



Sub-Relativistic last I checked.


----------



## Iwandesu (Aug 18, 2015)

mach 2k last i checked
but i also heard there were potentially some sub relativistic shenanigans


----------



## Dudebro (Aug 18, 2015)

Raiden shouldn't be hopeless here. Not when the battlefield is Manhattan.

He chokes/knocks him out and then ROAD ROLLA DA!!! his ass and leaves him pinned underneath it with no room to get out his claws...Lifting strength seemingly helps out here.


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 18, 2015)

Dudebro said:


> Raiden shouldn't be hopeless here. Not when the battlefield is Manhattan.
> 
> He chokes/knocks him out and then ROAD ROLLA DA!!! his ass and leaves him pinned underneath it with no room to get out his claws...Lifting strength seemingly helps out here.



Vaporizing all the flesh from his body won't knock him out what makes you think choking him will?


----------



## Jag77 (Aug 18, 2015)

Why the fuck is Wolverine even in a Death Battle then?


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 18, 2015)

Jag77 said:


> Why the fuck is Wolverine even in a Death Battle then?



Theyre not very smart. Same reason why they have immortals like Spawn, Scorpion and Deadpool.


----------



## FireEel (Aug 18, 2015)

Raiden can't kill Wolverine....... but he turns the short, hairy, angry mutant into his personal punching bag.


----------



## MAPSK (Aug 18, 2015)

[YOUTUBE]Mp_dXDdidmw[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 18, 2015)

FireEel said:


> Raiden can't kill Wolverine....... but he turns the short, hairy, angry mutant into his personal punching bag.



not for very long.


----------



## Jag77 (Aug 18, 2015)

The only Screwattack Death Battle I absolutely hated them for was that piece of shit known as Gaara vs Toph. 

Otherwise their's battles usually range from bleh to understandable to good for me.


----------



## Iwandesu (Aug 18, 2015)

can't wolverine be knocked out ?
op didn't really specify that killing is needed


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 18, 2015)

iwandesu said:


> can't wolverine be knocked out ?
> op didn't really specify that killing is needed



This is mirroring DB rules I'm guessing so passing out isn't an option. Doesn't really matter much, regeneration pretty much shocks him back into consciousness. 

The only way Raiden wins is if he permanently incapacitates him. With quadruple digit mach combat and reaction speed, It won't take long for Logan to cut him down or more appropriately put, wear Raiden down until he's vulnerable.


----------



## Haro (Aug 18, 2015)

iwandesu said:


> can't wolverine be knocked out ?
> op didn't really specify that killing is needed



Casual blows from hulk can't knock him out.

Idk how raiden could


----------



## FireEel (Aug 18, 2015)

Ryo Asuka said:


> Casual blows from hulk can't knock him out.
> 
> Idk how raiden could



Why are we nitpicking off the top-end feats?

Logan's been knocked out plenty by opponents *FAR* weaker than Hulk.


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Aug 18, 2015)

Wolverine gets demolished, he can't do shit to Raiden and it's only a matter of time before drowning/choking/ringout victory


----------



## puolakanaho (Aug 19, 2015)

Nightbringer said:


> Wolverine gets demolished, he can't do shit to Raiden and it's only a matter of time before drowning/choking/ringout victory



how exactly would raiden ring out him...and wrestling with the volwerine is just about the last thing raiden should do if he actually wants to win this fight,..


----------



## Desco (Aug 19, 2015)

Inb4 logan lost his healing powers in death of wolverine.


----------



## GiveRobert20dollars (Aug 19, 2015)

What's amazing to me is that people keep giving DB the time of day instead of ignoring it.

DB makes retarded as shit matchup, it's pretty much understood at this point.


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 19, 2015)

Nightbringer said:


> Wolverine gets demolished, he can't do shit to Raiden and it's only a matter of time before drowning/choking/ringout victory



What do you mean he cant do shit to him? MHS combat speed + Adamantium claws = dead quinton flynn


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 19, 2015)

Honestly I would not mind if DB went with BFR. They've broken that rule about death before with pony vs transformer. And they've broken their own rules about outside help. They change it to suit the matchup. Raiden has such a huge stat advantage if he can find a way to BFR Wolvie, Wolvie is getting BFRd. 

Or heck drowning is death for Wolvie so they wouldn't even have to break their own rules for Raiden to do that to Wolvie.

Raiden isn't the type of speedster who'll just run in a straight line so Wolvie can predict where he'll be next. He can maneuver and decelerate on a dime. And with blade mode as well as precise strikes he can parry Wolvie's claws on the much less sharp sides of them. Even if Raiden makes a mistake and Wolvie gets in close Raiden just has to move a little to either side to avoid a vital organ getting destroyed or just move backwards so the cut isn't as deep.


----------



## Dudebro (Aug 19, 2015)

MHS or not Raiden is still faster...Like potentially a fuckton faster...Wolverine can't do shit but outlast Jacky boy.

From where I can see it this goes one of two ways. 

The traditional "Logan gets his asskicked so hard he still wins".

Or Raiden finds some way to keep him close enough to dead that it hardly matters...Like why not just ram his sword or whatever other weapon he can find through his eye sockets over and over, leave it in there, put something like a truck or bus or steamroller or "insert multi ton object here" on top of him and walk off?


----------



## MAPSK (Aug 19, 2015)

inb4 DB Raiden's HF blade can parry Wolverine's adamantium claws because of molecular bullshit


----------



## puolakanaho (Aug 19, 2015)

Dudebro said:


> MHS or not Raiden is still faster...Like potentially a fuckton faster...Wolverine can't do shit but outlast Jacky boy.
> 
> From where I can see it this goes one of two ways.
> 
> ...



volw has feats of tagging people faster than raiden tho. and he most certainly is better combatant than raiden.   and none of the other scenarios would work since he can just: remove the sword,shread through the multi ton debrees or busses and be back in the fight.


----------



## Dudebro (Aug 19, 2015)

MAPSK said:


> inb4 DB Raiden's HF blade can parry Wolverine's adamantium claws because of molecular bullshit



Nah. There gonna say Raiden can cut through his adamantium because it can slice at the atomic level. 



puolakanaho said:


> volw has feats of tagging people faster than raiden tho. and he most certainly is better combatant than raiden.   and none of the other scenarios would work since he can just: remove the sword,shread through the multi ton debrees or busses and be back in the fight.



Being a better combatant is tantamount to jack shit when your fighting somebody significantly stronger than you. That's the bottomline. Martial arts only get you so far. And Raiden isn't exactly an idiot in cqc. Don't know how well he stacks up to Snake in that regard but you don't need to be better at that when your a fuckload stronger and faster.

And I don't think you get what I said. The object being kept inside his skull will be in the way of his regen and if the object is placed on him right he wont even have the leverage to cut his way out from under.

That speed point?...Eh...Don't know where we place him...I thought we just scaled him to Spidey and left it that way. If anyone has a better way to appropriately place him speedwise then have at it. I won't  have anything to add after that point.


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 19, 2015)

Dudebro said:


> MHS or not Raiden is still faster...Like potentially a fuckton faster...Wolverine can't do shit but outlast Jacky boy.
> 
> From where I can see it this goes one of two ways.
> 
> ...



No? Sub-Relativistic is still debatable and even then he's not even that much faster than him atleast not enough to blitz...

So whats stopping Logan from uppercutting his claws through Raiden's chin when he's off-guard? He can stab his eye but he can't stab his blade through his skull because its adamantium, eventually something about Logan whether its his regeneration or adamantium skull is gonna catch Raiden off-guard and when that happens, he dies.


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 19, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> No? Sub-Relativistic is still debatable and even then he's not even that much faster than him atleast not enough to blitz...
> 
> So whats stopping Logan from uppercutting his claws through Raiden's chin when he's off-guard? He can stab his eye but he can't stab his blade through his skull because its adamantium, eventually something about Logan whether its his regeneration or adamantium skull is gonna catch Raiden off-guard and when that happens, he dies.



When would Raiden be off gaurd in the middle of a fight? And an error isn't the same as a fatal error. Like I've said Raiden can shift so Wolvie doesn't strike his vital organs or jump backwards to either avoid the cut altogether or have it be more shallow. I honestly see BFR as an option and a very viable one at that. DB may not use BFR that much but it has happened before in at least one fight. And the excuse that it didn't happen in DP vs DS when it should've just doesn't cut it since they also nerfed DS to shit to the point he couldn't pull off BFR. They would have to never played or seen MGR to not know that Raiden is stronger and faster. It doesn't get any more obvious then missile hopping and giant spider mech flipping (and on top of that DB is really shitty at using scaling or they just ignore it entirely in favor of direct feats so they might not put Wolvie at hypersonic reaction speed). Anti climactic or not Wolvie's either getting BFRd or drowned to death. Cause that's what's more accurate and even with DBs usual fuck ups they'd work in Raiden's favor because of his more clear cut feats.


----------



## Dudebro (Aug 19, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> No? Sub-Relativistic is still debatable and even then he's not even that much faster than him atleast not enough to blitz...
> 
> So whats stopping Logan from uppercutting his claws through Raiden's chin when he's off-guard? He can stab his eye but he can't stab his blade through his skull because its adamantium, eventually something about Logan whether its his regeneration or adamantium skull is gonna catch Raiden off-guard and when that happens, he dies.



The impact from a sword swing from Raiden is gonna ragdoll the man...He won't have the time to get a surprise attack going. Wolverine is almost nothing Raiden hasn't seen before...Just a combo of a few of them.

Raiden enters a fight aiming to cut his opponent in half or run him through....He goes for so much over kill even when the guy hes attacking is human. Remember what he did to that guy holding a kid hostage?...Instead of just stabbing or something he decides to bisect both of them...One of his less smart moments...But still...

He'll try to slice and dice, fail, send him flying from the attempt and then realize pretty much all he needs to know from the start as a result.


----------



## puolakanaho (Aug 19, 2015)

Dudebro said:


> The impact from a sword swing from Raiden is gonna ragdoll the man...He won't have the time to get a surprise attack going. Wolverine is almost nothing Raiden hasn't seen before...Just a combo of a few of them.
> 
> Raiden enters a fight aiming to cut his opponent in half or run him through....He goes for so much over kill even when the guy hes attacking is human. Remember what he did to that guy holding a kid hostage?...Instead of just stabbing or something he decides to bisect both of them...One of his less smart moments...But still...
> 
> He'll try to slice and dice, fail, send him flying from the attempt and then realize pretty much all he needs to know from the start as a result.



 yeah raiden most certainly has gone toe to toe with peepz that have tanked hits from beings at the same level as hulk without any damage. or regenerated from just a skeleton.


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 19, 2015)

puolakanaho said:


> yeah raiden most certainly has gone toe to toe with peepz that have tanked hits from beings at the same level as hulk without any damage. or regenerated from just a skeleton.





Tank hits from Hulk with no damage? Jesus, the wank. Maybe you should tell that to Spidey who more consistently than anything else owns Wolvie while hardly trying. Heck in their most recent fight when Spidey's mind was switched with Doc Ocks he spells it out clearly while low diffing Wolvie.


----------



## MAPSK (Aug 19, 2015)

>inb4 arguments about consistency and outliers

Jesus it's in every single fucking comic thread.


----------



## Jag77 (Aug 19, 2015)

Lol comic threads


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 19, 2015)

Dudebro said:


> *The impact from a sword swing from Raiden is gonna ragdoll the man.*..He won't have the time to get a surprise attack going. Wolverine is almost nothing Raiden hasn't seen before...Just a combo of a few of them.
> 
> Raiden enters a fight aiming to cut his opponent in half or run him through....He goes for so much over kill even when the guy hes attacking is human. Remember what he did to that guy holding a kid hostage?...Instead of just stabbing or something he decides to bisect both of them...One of his less smart moments...But still...
> 
> He'll try to slice and dice, fail, send him flying from the attempt and then realize pretty much all he needs to know from the start as a result.



That's the thing it won't....Raiden stabs him, realizes he can't cut through his bones and there goes his head.


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 19, 2015)

MAPSK said:


> >inb4 arguments about consistency and outliers
> 
> Jesus it's in every single fucking comic thread.



True enough  . 

Though really. Wolvie's skeleton tanks shit but the rest of him does not. He has his hax as fuck regen but bullets aren't bouncing off of his skin, he can be cut by anything any human could be cut by and him being knocked by spiderman level and up foes seems to be what should happen more times than not.

Comics are inconsistent as all hell but Wolvie's abilities and common portrayal don't lend to him being a speedster or a tank. His usual strategy against speedsters is to predict where they're gonna move and rely on them not being able to shift their momentum in time   . Not saying it's impossible for Wolvie to have hypersonic reaction speed but combat speed? Wolvie doesn't seem to be able to tag characters like these any other way. And Raiden's not gonna be that predictable or completely unable to shift his momentum.


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 19, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> That's the thing it won't....Raiden stabs him, realizes he can't cut through his bones and there goes his head.



What? Raiden slashes more often than not and stabs as a finisher. He'll realize the bones are uncuttable before even attempting to stab. And the impact of said slash will ragdoll Wolvie.


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 19, 2015)

xenos5 said:


> What? Raiden slashes more often than not and stabs as a finisher. He'll realize the bones are uncuttable before even attempting to stab. And the impact of said slash will ragdoll Wolvie.



 no it won't one of the perks of adamantium, otherwise you'd have things like Ultron being sent flying everytime he gets even a semi-decent love tap by Thor.

His skeleton ain't gonna budge, and Raiden doesn't even have the speed necessary to blitz him so either way this is ending with Raiden having claws slashed through him.


----------



## Dudebro (Aug 19, 2015)

puolakanaho said:


> yeah raiden most certainly has gone toe to toe with peepz that have tanked hits from beings at the same level as hulk without any damage. or regenerated from just a skeleton.



I shouldn't have to tell you why this is nonsense...Your just going to nonsensical extremes that won't really even be factored in considering how they both fight...

Raiden has faced people with regen  and people who can shrug off his sword. 

Raiden has no way of vaporizing him or getting past the skeleton. The methods I and a few others brought up require neither. So he won't even see that side nor would it help him to even know of it.

Edit: That said there is a whole can of worms being opened here about...Eh...Several issues here...Quoting MAPSK here...Lel comic thread. I don't have the energy, nor the mood right now thanks to a bunch of unrelated shit... I'll leave it here.


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 19, 2015)

Dudebro said:


> I shouldn't have to tell you why this is nonsense...Your just going to nonsensical extremes that won't really even be factored in considering how they both fight...
> 
> Raiden has faced people with regen  and people who can shrug off his sword.
> 
> Raiden has no way of vaporizing him or getting past the skeleton. The methods I and a few others brought up require neither. So he won't even see that side nor would it help him to even know of it.



So essentially what you're saying is that i'm right but trying to slip in a back-handed fuck you in there to make yourself come across as being more clever....good luck with that.


----------



## GiveRobert20dollars (Aug 19, 2015)

ITT: Deathbattle inflicts everyone present with a terminal case of au-tism


----------



## Warlordgab (Aug 19, 2015)

Out of curiosity, how can you destroy adamantium? Or can adamantium be melted?


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 19, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> no it won't one of the perks of adamantium, otherwise you'd have things like Ultron being sent flying everytime he gets even a semi-decent love tap by Thor.
> 
> His skeleton ain't gonna budge, and Raiden doesn't even have the speed necessary to blitz him so either way this is ending with Raiden having claws slashed through him.



Despite the adamantium skeleton Wolvie has been blown back plenty of times by guys weaker than Raiden. He ain't keeping his feet planted to the ground when a small town level slash hits him. Ultron has the excuse of integrating Adamantium into his entire body.

And Wolvie is getting either BFRd or drowned. Raiden's gonna realize Wolvie's skeleton is uncuttable early on. And he'll resort to other methods as soon as he gets to that realization. With Blade Mode especially if Raiden makes a mistake he's fast enough to correct himself before Wolvie can capitalize on it and he's precise enough to rarely make mistakes. Against an opponent who is faster than him Wolvie is gonna have trouble hitting his vital spots. Raiden only has to move a little to the left or right to avoid his heart getting punctured or just dodge altogether. He can also just move or jump backwards resulting in either not getting cut at all or getting a more shallow cut. Heck he could even duck under the claws ala his normal chin shaving shenanigans .


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 19, 2015)

Warlordgab said:


> Out of curiosity, how can you destroy adamantium? Or can adamantium be melted?



I've heard super heated adamantium can cut normal adamantium.


----------



## Mr. Black Leg (Aug 19, 2015)

Wolverine uses perfidy, Raiden thinks he's dead, Wolverine back stabs him in the head .

It's not like it's impossible, we're dealing with a guy that when the mission in question is " Kill " he'll do whatever it fucking takes .



xenos5 said:


> I've heard super heated adamantium can cut normal adamantium.



Can be melted . 

But now that someone mentioned it ... Logan probably has some feats regarding Pietro Maximoff, Quicksilver's relativistic ... Relativistic Logan ?


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 19, 2015)

xenos5 said:


> Despite the adamantium skeleton Wolvie has been blown back plenty of times by guys weaker than Raiden. He ain't keeping his feet planted to the ground when a small town level slash hits him. Ultron has the excuse of integrating Adamantium into his entire body.
> 
> And Wolvie is getting either BFRd or drowned. Raiden's gonna realize Wolvie's skeleton is uncuttable early on. And he'll resort to other methods as soon as he gets to that realization. With Blade Mode especially if Raiden makes a mistake he's fast enough to correct himself before Wolvie can capitalize on it and he's precise enough to rarely make mistakes. Against an opponent who is faster than him Wolvie is gonna have trouble hitting his vital spots. Raiden only has to move a little to the left or right to avoid his heart getting punctured or just dodge altogether. He can also just move or jump backwards resulting in either not getting cut at all or getting a more shallow cut. Heck he could even duck under the claws ala his normal chin shaving shenanigans .



No, he hasnt unless you think Hulk and Nitro are weaker than Raiden. Even then Wolverines been nuked all the flesh blown clean of his skeleton and it was still there. Raiden has neither the speed to blitz nor foreseight to see Logan coming when hes vulnerable.


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 19, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> No, he hasnt unless you think Hulk and Nitro are weaker than Raiden. Even then Wolverines been nuked all the flesh blown clean of his skeleton and it was still there. Raiden has neither the speed to blitz nor foreseight to see Logan coming when hes vulnerable.






And more recent 



Wolvie doesn't keep his feet planted to the ground with just that level of force. Raiden outputs more. Therefore he ragdolls Wolvie. 

I'm not arguing for Raiden killing wolvie in a straightforward way. I'm saying it's either BFR or drowning and Wolvie doesn't have the required strength to put up much of a resistance to either.

And as far as foresight goes... what makes you think that? Raiden knows if he messes up it'll leave an opening for his opponent to counter attack. So either he doesn't make a mistake so the opening never appears or he narrowly avoids the counter attack. And even though he probably would be able to straight up dodge it he could just let Wolvie hit him but shift in a direction so Wolvie misses the heart or back off so Wolvie deals a lighter cut.


----------



## Warlordgab (Aug 19, 2015)

^ I'm not sure if that proves Logan has no MHS reactions but if Raiden can't destroy/melt adamantium Logan is pretty much capable of outlasting him


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 19, 2015)

Warlordgab said:


> ^ I'm not sure if that proves Logan has no MHS reactions but if Raiden can't destroy/melt adamantium Logan is pretty much capable of outlasting him



And Raiden's capable of BFRing or Drowning Wolvie to death. I'm pretty sure Raiden could think to do that long before he runs out of stamina.


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Aug 19, 2015)

all this logan wank


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Aug 19, 2015)

>Logan
>not getting wanked

pick one


----------



## Imagine (Aug 19, 2015)

>lolcd
>loldartg

Picking both


----------



## FireEel (Aug 19, 2015)

I'm tempted to pull out the Wolverine vs Galactus comic just to see how far things would go.


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 20, 2015)

The funniest thing is people honestly relying on the "ragdoll" argument as if that even helps Raiden's chances even if that were the case which it isn't.


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 20, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> The funniest thing is people honestly relying on the "ragdoll" argument as if that even helps Raiden's chances even if that were the case which it isn't.



If every blow Raiden gives Wolvie blows him back then it's not gonna be easy for Wolvie to counter attack. He'll be stunned and that'll only give Raiden more time to either follow up with another attack, start using long range attacks to keep Wolvie at a distance and wear him down, or start thinking of ways to BFR Wolvie.


----------



## Xadlin (Aug 20, 2015)

inb4 Composite wolverine defeated 3 heralds of Galactus and then Galactus himself

Serious note tough, This is a Deathbattle. 
Raiden can't cut Logan's Adamantium, logan will outlast raiden and get a berserker-barrage to the face.

Also, logan isn't stupid. Since Raiden is gonna try to knockback, of course he's going to change strategy and do a quicksilver on him. If raiden gets close then logan will cut him when he does.


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 20, 2015)

Xadlin said:


> inb4 Composite wolverine defeated 3 heralds of Galactus and then Galactus himself
> 
> Serious note tough, This is a Deathbattle.
> Raiden can't cut Logan's Adamantium, logan will outlast raiden and get a berserker-barrage to the face.
> ...



Even if only once BFR has happened in DB before. And Raiden's stat advantage is so obvious he's more than capable of pulling it off here.

Quick silver on him? Do you mean Wolvie will try to predict where Raiden will move to? Raiden's got that breakdancing fighting style Wolvie has never encountered before and most speedsters Wolvie faces aren't martial artists who can control their momentum really well on top of that.

Plus Raiden can correct himself from mistakes by jumping/moving backwards to dodge an attack or not get as deep of a cut. Go to either side to dodge or have it so his vital organs are missed. And parry Wolvie's claws from the sides. This is further helps by Blade Mode which makes Wolvie look even slower and easier to avoid/counter.


----------



## puolakanaho (Aug 20, 2015)

xenos5 said:


> Even if only once BFR has happened in DB before. And Raiden's stat advantage is so obvious he's more than capable of pulling it off here.
> 
> Quick silver on him? Do you mean Wolvie will try to predict where Raiden will move to? Raiden's got that breakdancing fighting style Wolvie has never encountered before and most speedsters Wolvie faces aren't martial artists who can control their momentum really well on top of that.
> 
> Plus Raiden can correct himself from mistakes by jumping/moving backwards to dodge an attack or not get as deep of a cut. Go to either side to dodge or have it so his vital organs are missed. And parry Wolvie's claws from the sides. This is further helps by Blade Mode which makes Wolvie look even slower and easier to avoid/counter.



the breakdancing combat would be capoeira most likely... and wolverine is one of the better marvel h2h combatants so claiming erratic movements are going to throw him off is stupid...specially since he has gone h2h with deadpool before..i dont think there can be any more erratic movement combat style than his...considering it made a guy who memorizes  everybodys combat styles and learns them just by watching; confused.


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 20, 2015)

puolakanaho said:


> the breakdancing combat would be capoeira most likely... and wolverine is one of the better marvel h2h combatants so claiming erratic movements are going to throw him off is stupid...specially since he has gone h2h with deadpool before..i dont think there can be any more erratic movement combat style than his...considering it made a guy who memorizes  everybodys combat styles and learns them just by watching; confused.



I think Raiden's fighting style in combination with his speed will throw Wolvie off. Most speedsters Wolvie faces like Quicksilver or Speed Demon aren't also good martial artists. Plus they have trouble controlling their momentum and slowing to a halt while Raiden can control his momentum despite his speed. 

Blade Mode will especially help in allowing Raiden to correct himself before Wolvie can have a chance to capitalize on any openings.


----------



## puolakanaho (Aug 20, 2015)

xenos5 said:


> I think Raiden's fighting style in combination with his speed will throw Wolvie off. Most speedsters Wolvie faces like Quicksilver or Speed Demon aren't also good martial artists. Plus they have trouble controlling their momentum and slowing to a halt while Raiden can control his momentum despite his speed.
> 
> Blade Mode will especially help in allowing Raiden to correct himself before Wolvie can have a chance to capitalize on any openings.



wolverine still has fought faster opponents, he still has tagged faster opponents, he is still considered one of the better combatants in marvel (with what? 100 years combat experience) he doesnt get confused by erratic movements like a ten year old.


----------



## Roman (Aug 20, 2015)

I heard Logan's joints are normal. As in, they're not covered by adamantium. Have i heard wrong?


----------



## puolakanaho (Aug 20, 2015)

Roman said:


> I heard Logan's joints are normal. As in, they're not covered by adamantium. Have i heard wrong?



i think you have. last time i checked his skeletal structure was completely covered in adamantium... and his joints have never popped up as a weakness before this.


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 20, 2015)

Roman said:


> I heard Logan's joints are normal. As in, they're not covered by adamantium. Have i heard wrong?



I think that's Ultimate Wolvie. And it's not unlike DB to include non canon weaknesses (DK losing his hair=losing strength) so that could come up.



puolakanaho said:


> wolverine still has fought faster opponents, he still has tagged faster opponents, he is still considered one of the better combatants in marvel (with what? 100 years combat experience) he doesnt get confused by erratic movements like a ten year old.



Raiden is a combination of speed, strength and skill. Individually Raiden very much exceeds Wolvie in the first two even if Wolvie has faced stronger/faster characters (Plus Wolvie would lose to them more often than not). And Raiden's skill is complimentary to his speed and strength unlike most speedsters Wolvie faces. Raiden is very unlikely to make a mistake and he can definitely correct himself.


----------



## puolakanaho (Aug 20, 2015)

xenos5 said:


> I think that's Ultimate Wolvie. And it's not unlike DB to include non canon weaknesses (DK losing his hair=losing strength) so that could come up.
> 
> 
> 
> Raiden is a combination of speed, strength and skill. Individually Raiden very much exceeds Wolvie in the first two even if Wolvie has faced stronger/faster characters (Plus Wolvie would lose to them more often than not). And Raiden's skill is complimentary to his speed and strength unlike most speedsters Wolvie faces. Raiden is very unlikely to make a mistake and he can definitely correct himself.



wolv still has BESTED stronger opponents than raiden more of then than not to be considered outlier. and the other speedsters arent exactly brawl and bawl combatants either. and raiden "not doing mistakes" is a rather odd way to argue so i guess the only thing to say back is...wolverine also doesnt make mistakes?


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 20, 2015)

puolakanaho said:


> wolv still has BESTED stronger opponents than raiden more of then than not to be considered outlier. and the other speedsters arent exactly brawl and bawl combatants either. and raiden "not doing mistakes" is a rather odd way to argue so i guess the only thing to say back is...wolverine also doesnt make mistakes?



Wolvie does shit to Hulk most of the time and loses to Thor as well. What stronger opponents are you talking about that Wolvie actually beats instead of just tagging? I'm pretty sure Spidey ain't stronger than Raiden and it's pretty well established Spider-Man>Wolverine at this point. 

The point I was making is Wolverine is not going to get a lucky shot in that easily. Raiden has all the time in the world to go down the list of kill methods until he finds the right BFR or drowns Wolvie to death.


----------



## puolakanaho (Aug 20, 2015)

xenos5 said:


> Wolvie does shit to Hulk most of the time and loses to Thor as well. What stronger opponents are you talking about that Wolvie actually beats instead of just tagging? I'm pretty sure Spidey ain't stronger than Raiden and it's pretty well established Spider-Man>Wolverine at this point.
> 
> The point I was making is Wolverine is not going to get a lucky shot in that easily. Raiden has all the time in the world to go down the list of kill methods until he finds the right BFR or drowns Wolvie to death.



...yeah and he has actually managed to bring hulk down once in a while :/ 


and you know how BIG jump there is in power there? we went from town level to continent to star system level.



hey while we are at it, why not go on to say that raiden cant beat superman so clearly wolverine is out of his level!  and spidey actually knocking wolv down with just punching is either jobbering or bad writing.


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 20, 2015)

puolakanaho said:


> ...yeah and he has actually managed to bring hulk down once in a while :/
> 
> and you know how BIG jump there is in power there? we went from town level to continent to star system level.
> 
> hey while we are at it, why not go on to say that raiden cant beat superman so clearly wolverine is out of his level!  and spidey actually knocking wolv down with just punching is either jobbering or bad writing.



Once in a while is the key words here. He should not be able to beat Hulk and there are rarely any instances where he actually does. 

What's bad writing to me is Wolvie not being instantly knocked out by World War Hulk.

You're taking extremely high ends and i'm taking mid ends that are more reasonable. A low end outlier would be Wolvie losing to Daredevil or Elektra. Spiderman level opponents and above beating Wolvie makes sense to me.


----------



## puolakanaho (Aug 20, 2015)

xenos5 said:


> Once in a while is the key words here. He should not be able to beat Hulk and there are rarely any instances where he actually does.
> 
> What's bad writing to me is Wolvie not being instantly knocked out by World War Hulk.
> 
> You're taking extremely high ends and i'm taking mid ends that are more reasonable. A low end outlier would be Wolvie losing to Daredevil or Elektra. Spiderman level opponents and above beating Wolvie makes sense to me.



so basically lower end feats make sense to you but higher end feats not?


ww hulk decimated just about any opponent he came in contact with. so yeah, that is bad writing.but again you are just jumping to an extreme to prove a point. ww hulk IS STRONGER than the standard hulk.


----------



## Qinglong (Aug 20, 2015)

Roman said:


> I heard Logan's joints are normal. As in, they're not covered by adamantium. Have i heard wrong?



Wolverine has stated before a broken neck would kill him, but he can come back from death so who knows if he's seriously bothered by it

Professor X stated he could be killed by decapitation but the adamantium skeleton makes that seriously difficult unless removed



puolakanaho said:


> so basically lower end feats make sense to you but higher end feats not?
> 
> 
> ww hulk decimated just about any opponent he came in contact with. so yeah, that is bad writing.but again you are just jumping to an extreme to prove a point. ww hulk IS STRONGER than the standard hulk.




Savage Hulk did damage to Wolverine before:


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 20, 2015)

puolakanaho said:


> so basically lower end feats make sense to you but higher end feats not?



Yeah I guess. Wolvie's powers themselves lend to him being slightly above street level IMO. He's got a skeleton that's unbreakable to most but the durability of his skin and organs is human level. He can be knocked out by low end super human characters like Spidey because of this. 



puolakanaho said:


> ww hulk decimated just about any opponent he came in contact with. so yeah, that is bad writing.but again you are just jumping to an extreme to prove a point. ww hulk IS STRONGER than the standard hulk.



I just don't think you don't even need to be on regular Hulk's level of strength to knock out Wolvie. 

Who beats Wolvie the most consistently? I'd say it'd be Spider-Man. And Raiden shares a lot of the same advantages against Wolvie that Spidey has. Agility, Speed, Strength. All that's missing is pre cog but in it's place Raiden has Blade Mode which makes characters as fast as himself look extremely slow so Raiden can see their every movement and effectively counter or dodge. Every time Raiden's in the slightest danger from Wolvie getting too close he always had blade mode to fall back on.


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 20, 2015)

I would like to point out that bringing up anything relating to Hulk is a bad idea considering he's the living definition of a plot device.

He can literally be anywhere between planet to star system level in strength just because of how irritated he is.


----------



## Warlordgab (Aug 20, 2015)

Spiderman is MCB+ and he can defeat Wolverine; Raiden's obd profile states he's small town level and people still doubt he can't defeat Wolverine? 

*xenos5* described how Raiden's combat skills are also above Wolverine's; and he also has the speed advantage... why is this thread still going?


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 20, 2015)

Warlordgab said:


> Spiderman is MCB+ and he can defeat Wolverine; Raiden's obd profile states he's small town level and people still doubt he can't defeat Wolverine?
> 
> *xenos5* described how Raiden's combat skills are also above Wolverine's; and he also has the speed advantage... why is this thread still going?



No Spider-Man and Logan are around the same level. 

>implying that Raiden actually wins this ck

Raiden has neither the strength to put Logan down, cut his bones nor does he the speed to blitz him....he gets thrashed.


----------



## Haro (Aug 20, 2015)

Considering god tiers cannot put logan down.
Someone like raiden who is a glorified MCB+ dude vs Logan who is similar in DC and lol Regen

Also who does Logan scale speed wise?


----------



## Warlordgab (Aug 20, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> No Spider-Man and Logan are around the same level.



Well, Raiden's stats puts him above both Wolverine and Spidey :sweat


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 20, 2015)

Ryo Asuka said:


> Considering god tiers cannot put logan down.
> Someone like raiden who is a glorified MCB+ dude vs Logan who is similar in DC and lol Regen
> 
> Also who does Logan scale speed wise?



Spider-Man, Cap, Thing and Savage Hulk

all of which go from Mach 3,000+ to Sub-Relitivistic speed (Hulk and Thing having a few ftl reaction feats)



Warlordgab said:


> Well, Raiden's stats puts him above both Wolverine and Spidey :sweat




>powerscaling from characters of different universes


----------



## Haro (Aug 20, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> Spider-Man, Cap, Thing and Savage Hulk
> 
> all of which go from Mach 3,000+ to Sub-Relitivistic speed (Hulk and Thing having a few ftl reaction feats)



Well Logan aint gonna be blitzed at all.

Also could you inform me what calcs those are? I would love to see them


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 20, 2015)

Ryo Asuka said:


> Well Logan aint gonna be blitzed at all.
> 
> Also could you inform me what calcs those are? I would love to see them



Alot of them are listed


----------



## Haro (Aug 20, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> Alot of them are listed



Thanks champ


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 20, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> Spider-Man, Cap, Thing and Savage Hulk
> 
> all of which go from Mach 3,000+ to Sub-Relitivistic speed (Hulk and Thing having a few ftl reaction feats)



Da fuck? Spider-Man and Cap ain't Mach 3000 or above.



Ryo Asuka said:


> Considering god tiers cannot put logan down.
> Someone like raiden who is a glorified MCB+ dude vs Logan who is similar in DC and lol Regen
> 
> Also who does Logan scale speed wise?



Small Town Level. And nope Wolvie is not similar in DC to that. 



Tom Servo said:


> Raiden has neither the strength to put Logan down, cut his bones nor does he the speed to blitz him....he gets thrashed.



You don't need to be able to blitz someone to BFR or drown them  . And yes Raiden does have the strength to knock Wolvie unconscious.


----------



## Warlordgab (Aug 20, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> >powerscaling from characters of different universes



Actually it's just comparing their stats:





Wolverine's only advantages are his healing factor and his adamantium skeleton


----------



## Haro (Aug 20, 2015)

Warlordgab said:


> Actually it's just comparing their stats:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



>Uses the wiki

kek


----------



## Haro (Aug 20, 2015)

> Also who does Logan scale speed wise?
> Small Town Level. And nope Wolvie is not similar in DC to that.



>Litterally ripped MCB dudes to death
>Not on there level
Also town starts at 5.8 Kilotons
Raidens feat is 600 tons. Thats no were near 5 kilo tons....


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 20, 2015)

Warlordgab said:


> Actually it's just comparing their stats:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Pretty much. 

Raiden just needs to BFR Wolvie or drown him to death to end the match and he has the requisite strength and speed to do that without much trouble.


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 20, 2015)

Ryo Asuka said:


> >Litterally ripped MCB dudes to death
> >Not on there level
> Also town starts at 5.8 Kilotons
> Raidens feat is 600 tons. Thats no were near 5 kilo tons....





Raiden's small town level scaling from overpowering Excelsus's limbs and Excelsus's digging feat.

Wolvie can cut a lot of characters. But his actual strength is far below that. If Wolvie had MCB strength he'd kill Spiderman and other characters on that level with a single punch since Spidey has building level Strength and durability. But that doesn't happen.

Wolvie is reliant on his claws to get shit done for the most part. And characters stronger than Wolvie can hold back Wolvie's strikes by grabbing Wolvie's claws at the not sharp sides of them. Heck Raiden could force Wolvie to use his claws on himself.


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 20, 2015)

He doesn't need strength feats....the blades are adamantium.....Raiden gets butchered.
If Wolverine can prison shank Thanos, Raiden sure as hell is not gonna do any better.


----------



## Iwandesu (Aug 20, 2015)

i would say the wiki is reliable sometimes but never just uploaded the outdated marvel profiles so wether supporters corrected it or not i don't know
spider has a small town level feat and a mhs one iirc


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 20, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> He doesn't need strength feats....the blades are adamantium.....Raiden gets butchered.
> If Wolverine can prison shank Thanos, Raiden sure as hell is not gonna do any better.



You are really over simplifying it. Raiden can dodge, parry, let himself get hurt but avoid a fatal injury, or just grab Wolvie's claws by the sides.

He's fast and skilled enough to do this instead of dying the moment he gets hit once which is what you are assuming.

Raiden has time to think up and try different methods of BFR or think up killing Wolvie through drowning.


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 20, 2015)

xenos5 said:


> You are really over simplifying it. Raiden can dodge, parry, let himself get hurt but avoid a fatal injury, or just grab Wolvie's claws by the sides.
> 
> He's fast and skilled enough to do this instead of dying the moment he gets hit once which is what you are assuming.
> 
> Raiden has time to think up and try different methods of BFR or think up killing Wolvie through drowning.





No that's the thing he won't be able to parry or block them. They'll cut through him like butter.


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 20, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> No that's the thing he won't be able to parry or block them. They'll cut through him like butter.



The sides of Wolvie's claws aren't sharp.


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 20, 2015)

why would you think he's whacking Raiden with the sides of his blades?


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 20, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> why would you think he's whacking Raiden with the sides of his blades?



Why wouldn't Raiden try to parry the part of Wolvie's claws that would be easier to parry? It doesn't matter how Wolvie is intending to strike Raiden. Raiden can still strike the sides of the claws.


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 20, 2015)

xenos5 said:


> Why wouldn't Raiden try to parry the part of Wolvie's claws that would be easier to parry? It doesn't matter how Wolvie is intending to strike Raiden. Raiden can still strike the sides of the claws.


Raiden blocks first instinctively, when he does he gets cut apart. Even if you want to argue that he swipes Wolverine's claws away, he's gonna need a few spare microseconds to cut him realize he's adamntium and avoid the claws that aim to remove his head. Which he doesn't have.


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 20, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> Raiden blocks first instinctively, when he does he gets cut apart. Even if you want to argue that he swipes Wolverine's claws away, he's gonna need a few spare microseconds to cut him realize he's adamntium and avoid the claws that aim to remove his head. Which he doesn't have.



Wait...

You think Wolvie's getting the first strike? 

I'm certain Raiden would be able to attack first. So he'd realize Wolvie's skeleton is made of a super dense material then.


----------



## FireEel (Aug 20, 2015)

Someone should make a new Wolverine vs Spider-man thread just to see what happens.

I see we got new Logan supporters here.


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 20, 2015)

iwandesu said:


> i would say the wiki is reliable sometimes but never just uploaded the outdated marvel profiles so wether supporters corrected it or not i don't know
> spider has a small town level feat and a mhs one iirc



I'm kinda interested to hear what this small town level feat is. Though I don't think it would scale to Wolvie considering how Spidey beats him, plus how casual the beating is.


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Aug 20, 2015)

>ud didn't lock this thread

demod that clown


----------



## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Aug 20, 2015)

Nightbringer said:


> >ud didn't lock this thread
> 
> demod that clown



I'm sure everyone will get right on that after the 12 hour adventure of actually restoring everything yesterday.

Also this thread is a glorious example of lolfiction


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 20, 2015)

xenos5 said:


> Wait...
> 
> You think Wolvie's getting the first strike?
> 
> I'm certain Raiden would be able to attack first. So he'd realize Wolvie's skeleton is made of a super dense material then.



MHS to Relitivistic speed

They're speed is pretty equal if not Logan having the advantage....yeah he sure as fuck does get the first swing in

By the way welcome....because you're so obviously fucking new here.

Logan won like several pages ago in this thread.....


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 20, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> MHS to Relitivistic speed
> 
> They're speed is pretty equal if not Logan having the advantage....yeah he sure as fuck does get the first swing in



I'm pretty sure that was just reaction speed. Raiden moves around faster as a whole plus he can use blade mode on top of that 



Tom Servo said:


> By the way welcome....because you're so obviously fucking new here.
> 
> Logan won like several pages ago in this thread.....



I joined a while back. Then left and tried out some other forums. Then came back again.

But seriously what is your definition of winning? Nightbringer and Crimson Dragoon agreeing that Logan's being wanked? That's the last thing that happened several pages ago


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 20, 2015)

xenos5 said:


> I'm pretty sure that was just reaction speed. Raiden moves around faster as a whole plus he can use blade mode on top of that
> 
> 
> 
> ...



1. Which again at best puts him at MHS to sub-relativistic speed....

2. clearly you never heard of the term "general consensus" 

adamantium claws/ adamantium skeleton/as fast if not faster

The only reason this thread is even going on is because your insistent that Raiden might faster and there fore he wins by dropping something on Logan


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 20, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> 1. Which again at best puts him at MHS to sub-relativistic speed....
> 
> 2. clearly you never heard of the term "general consensus"
> 
> ...



1. So wolvie being a good bit slower when it comes to movement speed doesn't effect the fight? And on top of that when Raiden's using blade mode MHS+ opponents look slow to him. 

2. General consensus? This thread's been pretty split both ways from what I can tell. At first people thought DB would just ignore BFR so Raiden couldn't win despite his superior stats but then I reminded people that there's at least some precedent for it with RD vs SS. And on top of that drowning/suffocation kills Wolvie so that's a non BFR method Raiden can use to win.


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 20, 2015)

xenos5 said:


> *1. So wolvie being a good bit slower when it comes to movement speed doesn't effect the fight?* And on top of that when Raiden's using blade mode MHS+ opponents look slow to him.
> 
> 2. General consensus? This thread's been pretty split both ways from what I can tell. At first people thought DB would just ignore BFR so Raiden couldn't win despite his superior stats but then I reminded people that there's at least some precedent for it with RD vs SS. And on top of that drowning/suffocation kills Wolvie so that's a non BFR method Raiden can use to win.



1. Even your reading comprehension sucks....No it won't because A)Raiden isn't even fast and B) even if he was he wouldn't have enough speed to blitz him much less trap him under shit without him noticing. Then there's the fcat that choking him leaves him open to being sliced and diced...again.

2. It literally only consists of you and maybe one or two more. Also no its not regeneration shocks him back to life anyway and Raiden doesn't choke people that won't be a logical conclusion for him to come to.


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 20, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> 1. Even your reading comprehension sucks....No it won't because A)Raiden isn't even fast and B) even if he was he wouldn't have enough speed to blitz him much less trap him under shit without him noticing. Then there's the fact that choking him leaves him open to being sliced and diced...again.
> 
> 2. It literally only consists of you and maybe one or two more. Also no its not regeneration shocks him back to life anyway and Raiden doesn't choke people that won't be a logical conclusion for him to come to.



1. Raiden isn't even fast? Where'd you come to that conclusion? And Raiden doesn't need to blitz since his far superior strength is all that's necessary. And Wolvie noticing or not isn't relevant to him getting trapped. Wolvie isn't dodging a skyscraper or a metal gear ray as it's being dropped onto him. 

2. I'm not going to go back and list every user who has supported Raiden but I don't really have to, to know me and one or two more users is just a guesstimate and you just want to believe Wolvie has a lot more supporters whether or not it's actually true . I said drowning/suffocation. It doesn't have to be choking specifically. Or heck Raiden could knock Wolvie out and try either of them at his leisure. Raiden doesn't have to restrain Wolvie to get him to the deepest depths of the ocean that he can't swim back from. Just hit him into the air and then slam him down with a town level slash or punch. When has Wolvie been shocked back to life from drowning? And if we're going by DB rules death is the end of the fight. When Wolvie comes back the fights already over since Wolvie died.


----------



## MAPSK (Aug 20, 2015)

The Wolverine Effect is strong in this thread


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 21, 2015)

xenos5 said:


> 1. Raiden isn't even fast? Where'd you come to that conclusion? And Raiden doesn't need to blitz since his far superior strength is all that's necessary. And Wolvie noticing or not isn't relevant to him getting trapped. Wolvie isn't dodging a skyscraper or a metal gear ray as it's being dropped onto him.
> 
> 2. I'm not going to go back and list every user who has supported Raiden but I don't really have to, to know me and one or two more users is just a guesstimate and you just want to believe Wolvie has a lot more supporters whether or not it's actually true . I said drowning/suffocation. It doesn't have to be choking specifically. Or heck Raiden could knock Wolvie out and try either of them at his leisure. Raiden doesn't have to restrain Wolvie to get him to the deepest depths of the ocean that he can't swim back from. Just hit him into the air and then slam him down with a town level slash or punch. When has Wolvie been shocked back to life from drowning? And if we're going by DB rules death is the end of the fight. When Wolvie comes back the fights already over since Wolvie died.



1. Not compared to Wolverine no. He needs to get close to Wolverine overpower him so yeah.

2. Clearly you don't know how DB operates. Its the permanent death that keeps them down. And yes Just because you and MAPSK and one or two others love wanking Raiden doesn't really change the fact that Wolverine prison shanks him in this fight. The amount of ways Raiden wins are incredibly limited and not nearly as much as Wolverine simply slashing him once....You gotta stop because at this point you're only embarrassing yourself.



MAPSK said:


> The Wolverine Effect is strong in this thread



lurk more.


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 21, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> 1. Not compared to Wolverine no. He needs to get close to Wolverine overpower him so yeah.
> 
> 2. Clearly you don't know how DB operates. Its the permanent death that keeps them down. And yes Just because you and MAPSK and one or two others love wanking Raiden doesn't really change the fact that Wolverine prison shanks him in this fight. The amount of ways Raiden wins are incredibly limited and not nearly as much as Wolverine simply slashing him once....You gotta stop because at this point you're only embarrassing yourself.



1. And the basis for this is? High end scaling that only you and a few others actually buy for anything other than reactions I assume  . Or he could wear Wolvie down with long range weaponry like Dystopia, homing missiles and RPGs then drop a building on Wolvie while he's a pile of flesh in the middle of recovering?

2.This is gonna go nowhere if we just accuse each other of wank back and forth. So I suggest you back up these accusations with proof instead of wasting my time  . If anyone's embarassing themselves here it's you. Wolvie slashing Raiden's heart or another organ is a very slim chance when Raiden's even in reaction speed or faster in blade mode. And Raiden's not gonna sit still and let Wolvie do it. Slashing the flat parts of Wolvie's claws to parry them is common sense and Raiden wouldn't need to know they're adamantium claws to come up with it.


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 21, 2015)

xenos5 said:


> 1. And the basis for this is? High end scaling that only you and a few others actually buy for anything other than reactions I assume  . Or he could wear Wolvie down with long range weaponry like Dystopia, homing missiles and RPGs then drop a building on Wolvie while he's a pile of flesh in the middle of recovering?
> 
> 2.This is gonna go nowhere if we just accuse each other of wank back and forth. So I suggest you back up these accusations with proof instead of wasting my time  . If anyone's embarassing themselves here it's you. Wolvie slashing Raiden's heart or another organ is a very slim chance when Raiden's even in reaction speed or faster in blade mode. And Raiden's not gonna sit still and let Wolvie do it. Slashing the flat parts of Wolvie's claws to parry them is common sense and Raiden wouldn't need to know they're adamantium claws to come up with it.



Oh wow you literally just pulled out the number 1 MVC argument lol

Wolverine being faster than Ben Grimm, Hulk, Cap and Spidey all of which are consistently Mach 2k+ to Relitivistic in speed (even more so with Thing and Hulk's reactions)

Also implying RPGs are relativistic in speed


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 21, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> Oh wow you literally just pulled out the number 1 MVC argument lol
> 
> Wolverine being faster than Ben Grimm, Hulk, Cap and Spidey all of which are consistently Mach 2k+ to Relitivistic in speed (even more so with Thing and Hulk's reactions)
> 
> Also implying RPGs are relativistic in speed




You.. you really think Wolverine is faster than all of those characters? And that all of them are at least Mach 2k+?  . 

If you want some proof from my side why don't we take the simple scaling of Raiden compared to Ocelot's mach 255 arm speed  . As well as the Mach 2000+ that Willyrereb derived for Blade Mode  .

And an RPG does not need to be relativistic to hit Wolvie. If Wolvie tries to slash it, it explodes in his face. Not only that but if Wolvie's stunned by Dystopia's electric currents beforehand then it's easier to follow up with other long range weapons.


----------



## MAPSK (Aug 21, 2015)

Tom Servo said:
			
		

> lurk more



*insert half-hearted passive-aggressive retort about the utter absence of consistency in the comic book industry here*

Really I'm so sick of this shit that that's about as much of a response as I can muster at this point 

Also, you're right. RPGs aren't relativistic. Except of course when they _are_ and can tag characters like Raiden who have MHS+/sub rel reactions. Does it make any sense? No. Does it have to? Fuck no it doesn't 

Okay, that's about as much as I'm willing to involve myself in this thread again. Continue


----------



## Haro (Aug 21, 2015)

MAPSK said:


> *insert half-hearted passive-aggressive retort about the utter absence of consistency in the comic book industry here*
> 
> Really I'm so sick of this shit that that's about as much of a response as I can muster at this point
> 
> ...



Yeah well your silly


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 21, 2015)

xenos5 said:


> You.. you really think Wolverine is faster than all of those characters? And that all of them are at least Mach 2k+?  .
> 
> If you want some proof from my side why don't we take the simple scaling of Raiden compared to Ocelot's mach 255 arm speed  . As well as the Mach 2000+ that Willyrereb derived for Blade Mode  .
> 
> And an RPG does not need to be relativistic to hit Wolvie. If Wolvie tries to slash it, it explodes in his face. Not only that but if Wolvie's stunned by Dystopia's electric currents beforehand then it's easier to follow up with other long range weapons.



He automatically gets scaling from them...so yeah he most certainly does. Singling him out from this because you don't want him to be that fast is something that desperate MVC tards do.

yeah all of them are atleast Mach 2K....with Thing and Hulk being sub-relativistic to relativistic....the wiki and scales exist for a reason...lurk more. Cap's been pushing quadruple digits since 2012...

And again Blade mode is sub-relativistic and as stated in the beginning of the thread even that is debatable.


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 21, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> He automatically gets scaling from them...so yeah he most certainly does. Singling him out from this because you don't want him to be that fast is something that desperate MVC tards do.
> 
> yeah all of them are atleast Mach 2K....with Thing and Hulk being sub-relativistic to relativistic....the wiki and scales exist for a reason...lurk more. Cap's been pushing quadruple digits since 2012...
> 
> And again Blade mode is sub-relativistic and as stated in the beginning of the thread even that is debatable.



Automatically gets scaling from Spiderman when Spiderman blitzes him and straight up says he's faster? Spidey is definitely not in the range of mach 2000+ to relativistic either like you claimed.

And Hulk? Hulk's speed should be relative to his anger as well as his strength considering his showings and how his muscles being boosted should allow him to move faster. He's been blitzed by characters far below and above mach 2000+ so to say Wolvie tagging him means he's faster then Hulk at his fastest is complete and utter horse shit. Not only that but tagging does not equal faster. Wolvie has never blitzed Hulk. Heck Hulk is another character who has been blitzed by Spidey at a certain point. And Spidey ain't mach 2000+ 

Captain America? Is this the feat you're talking about that puts him at mach 2000+ . Cause nowhere in that calc does his speed or reaction speed come out to above mach 2000. 

Lastly there's the Thing. Thing's reaction speed actually is (He also doesn't have the whole strength and speed levels change depending on anger thing Hulk does) based on one feat that hasn't been contradicted Mach 2000+ like you claim based on this feat  . BUT. I have never seen Wolvie blitz Thing or come close. And dodging Thing's punches could be the result of aim dodging since predicting moves seems to be Wolvie's most common tactic against people faster than him (see the Speed Demon and Quick Silver scans I posted earlier).

And this is STILL only reaction speed. Even if Wolvie can react to Raiden a bit (which i'm still having doubts about) Raiden can run in and move his limbs faster and this is not an advantage that should be ignored. And we still have blade mode on top of this.

I'm not going into sub relativistic shit people have for Raiden and characters on his level because I haven't been able to find it and I don't think that level of speed is really necessary against Wolvie.


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 21, 2015)

No wolverine gets scalin to Spidey because he can keep up with him consistently. Savage Hyulk blitzed Quicksilver without being amped in strength. We have a wiki for a reason....again Cap has been pushing mach 2k since 2012. And no check the scale even Human Thing is superhuman in stats

You're arguments are seriously getting worse and worse 

also Spidey not being MHS?


----------



## puolakanaho (Aug 21, 2015)

xenos5 said:


> Automatically gets scaling from Spiderman when Spiderman blitzes him and straight up says he's faster? Spidey is definitely not in the range of mach 2000+ to relativistic either like you claimed.
> 
> And Hulk? Hulk's speed should be relative to his anger as well as his strength considering his showings and how his muscles being boosted should allow him to move faster. He's been blitzed by characters far below and above mach 2000+ so to say Wolvie tagging him means he's faster then Hulk at his fastest is complete and utter horse shit. Not only that but tagging does not equal faster. Wolvie has never blitzed Hulk. Heck Hulk is another character who has been blitzed by Spidey at a certain point. And Spidey ain't mach 2000+
> 
> ...




so you need to blitz someone to be put close to that character in speed these days? and raiden cant "move his limbs" fast enough to blitz wolvernie, nor can he put enough power behind his punches to actually qualify to do any real damage to wolverine, so he still loeses.


and you cant find relativistic feats for raiden because nobody in mgs verse is relativistic in anything.


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 21, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> No wolverine gets scalin to Spidey because he can keep up with him consistently. Savage Hyulk blitzed Quicksilver without being amped in strength. We have a wiki for a reason....again Cap has been pushing mach 2k since 2012. And no check the scale even Human Thing is superhuman in stats
> 
> You're arguments are seriously getting worse and worse
> 
> also Spidey not being MHS?



Yeah. Tell that to Spidey ock while he's blitzing him in a body he's not entirely used to and commentating in his head about how he's faster. 
And when has Hulk ever blitzed Quicksilver? Hulk swatted him away once when Quicksilver ran straight towards him in a straight line and thunderclapped him away but i've never seen a blitz.
I showed you the calc for Cap. It had his reaction speed at 10m at less than mach 2000 and even worse for his close range reaction speed which Wolvie has only fought him at. Scale? Thing being superhuman as a human doesn't really make a difference. When did I ever say Spidey can't be MHS? I just vehemently disagree with him being mach 2000 which you seem to think he's at or above.



puolakanaho said:


> so you need to blitz someone to be put close to that character in speed these days? and raiden cant "move his limbs" fast enough to blitz wolvernie, nor can he put enough power behind his punches to actually qualify to do any real damage to wolverine, so he still loeses.
> 
> and you cant find relativistic feats for raiden because nobody in mgs verse is relativistic in anything.



1. Tom Servo was claiming that Wolvie is FASTER than all of those 4 characters without any proof. tagging a character that you don't have speed feats on the level on should mostly apply to reaction speed. And just as well how Wolvie tags them is important and how consistently it's done as well. he RARELY tags Spidey and Caps fighting style is all about melee instead of agility so he'll go close range and try to block strikes with his shield instead of focusing on dodging and using hit and run tactics as much (And also unlike Raiden he has little long range weaponry either except him throwing his shield like a boomerang). 

Movement speed is about how fast you can jump, run, punch etc... Raiden solidly has Wolvie beat in that category through feats other than tagging other characters (catching up to a bullet train and missile hopping). 

And what do you mean by not enough power? Raiden's not weaker than Spidey who knocked Wolvie the hell out. Both Raiden's melee attacks, cuting attacks and long range attacks are enough to wear Wolvie's regeneration done over time since it takes him more time to heal after regenerating from consecutive large scale injuries.

2. Wolvie's not that fast either so it doesn't matter whether or not Raiden is sub relativistic. Though I wouldn't be shocked if someone came up with that somehow. Just haven't found the calc for it yet so I can't confirm or disconfirm.


----------



## puolakanaho (Aug 21, 2015)

xenos5 said:


> Yeah. Tell that to Spidey ock while he's blitzing him in a body he's not entirely used to and commentating in his head about how he's faster.
> And when has Hulk ever blitzed Quicksilver? Hulk swatted him away once when Quicksilver ran straight towards him in a straight line and thunderclapped him away but i've never seen a blitz.
> I showed you the calc for Cap. It had his reaction speed at 10m at less than mach 2000 and even worse for his close range reaction speed which Wolvie has only fought him at. Scale? Thing being superhuman as a human doesn't really make a difference. When did I ever say Spidey can't be MHS? I just vehemently disagree with him being mach 2000 which you seem to think he's at or above.
> 
> ...





spidey knocking wolvie out is a low showing. also cap>>>>>>>raiden in terms of h2h so dont even start there.   and since when has wolverines renegation ability had a "limit"? and raiden is around hypersonic, stop wanking so hard. and wolverine still has feats tagging,beating and going h2h with characters FAR above raiden in terms of both speed and strength



speaking of which, why are you always trying to talk as if you know the intricacies of how the fight goes in detail?


----------



## Montanz (Aug 21, 2015)

Does wolverine have any MHS feats of his own?
Cap / Spiderman/ Hulk all have feats  that put them at that level, only argument I know for wolverine being that fast is by wonky comicbook powerscaling.


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 21, 2015)

puolakanaho said:


> spidey knocking wolvie out is a low showing. also cap>>>>>>>raiden in terms of h2h so dont even start there.   and since when has wolverines renegation ability had a "limit"? and raiden is around hypersonic, stop wanking so hard. and wolverine still has feats tagging,beating and going h2h with characters FAR above raiden in terms of both speed and strength
> 
> speaking of which, why are you always trying to talk as if you know the intricacies of how the fight goes in detail?



  . Mister X and Blok have knocked Wolvie out as well. It isn't that hard to do. To put it better tagging Cap at melee range isn't impressive enough to help him against Raiden considering Cap's reactions at melee range are mach 189  . And Raiden's speed scaling just from Ocelot's arm speed (which should be a lot slower than Raiden really)  is at mach 255+. And Blade Mode's speed is mach 2000+ from Willyrereb's calc. Wolverine is an inconsistent mofo. I think you're kinda wanking taking only high ends to create your perfect version of Wolvie.

"speaking of which, why are you always trying to talk as if you know the intricacies of how the fight goes in detail?"

What do you mean?


----------



## Qinglong (Aug 21, 2015)

puolakanaho said:


> spidey knocking wolvie out is a low showing. also cap>>>>>>>raiden in terms of h2h so dont even start there.   and since when has wolverines renegation ability had a "limit"? and raiden is around hypersonic, stop wanking so hard. and wolverine still has feats tagging,beating and going h2h with characters FAR above raiden in terms of both speed and strength
> 
> 
> 
> speaking of which, why are you always trying to talk as if you know the intricacies of how the fight goes in detail?



In the more than 17 times Spider-man and Wolverine have fought

Logan hasn't even won half of them


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 21, 2015)

Qinglong said:


> In the more than 17 times Spider-man and Wolverine have fought
> 
> Logan hasn't even won half of them



/thread 10char


----------



## Blαck (Aug 21, 2015)

xenos5 said:


> And when has Hulk ever blitzed Quicksilver? Hulk swatted him away once when Quicksilver ran straight towards him in a straight line and thunderclapped him away but i've never seen a blitz.
> .



Well there's this

Which might be the one you're thinking of.

Then there's the time he murked demon possessed Quicksilver

not much to go on there though. 

But there's alot more impressive speed feats for the Hulk. If you want


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 21, 2015)

BlackniteSwartz said:


> Well there's this
> 
> Which might be the one you're thinking of.
> 
> ...




I'm good. I know Hulk's got some good speed feats. Just don't think Wolvie scales to Hulk at his fastest or above it.


----------



## Blαck (Aug 21, 2015)

xenos5 said:


> I'm good. I know Hulk's got some good speed feats. *Just don't think Wolvie scales to Hulk at his fastest or above it.*



Been skimming the thread but does someone actually think that?


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 21, 2015)

BlackniteSwartz said:


> Been skimming the thread but does someone actually think that?



Yup. Tom Servo said this about a page back:


Tom Servo said:


> Wolverine being faster than Ben Grimm, Hulk, Cap and Spidey all of which are consistently Mach 2k+ to Relitivistic in speed (even more so with Thing and Hulk's


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 21, 2015)

Qinglong said:


> In the more than 17 times Spider-man and Wolverine have fought
> 
> Logan hasn't even won half of them



Probably the dumbest thing I heard all day

Literally the exact same thing can be said about Thor and Hulk and can be written off most of the time anyway due to Spider-Man's pre-cog, dexterity, ranged webbing and superhuman strength....



xenos5 said:


> Yup. Tom Servo said this about a page back:



Hulk at his fastest is having MFTL reactions....relativistic is a low showing....bravo showing once again that you not only have shitty reading comprehension but know less about actual comic characters than people from Death Battle forums.

Wolverine is around Spider-Man's level reaction wise. The fact that he does a better job reacting to Speed Demon is proof of that.....


----------



## Qinglong (Aug 21, 2015)

The dumbest thing you've heard all day is Spidey > Wolverine, because Wolverine himself said Spider-man has the strength to kill him

okay


----------



## Blαck (Aug 21, 2015)

>Jobberine getting Hulk scaling



Next I'm gonna hear how Spiderman blitzing firelord is legit.


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 21, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> Hulk at his fastest is having MFTL reactions....relativistic is a low showing....bravo showing once again that you not only have shitty reading comprehension but know less about actual comic characters than people from Death Battle forums.



You didn't say Wolverine's faster then Hulk with low showings/relativistic speed. You just said he's faster then Hulk. And I don't trust either TBH. Relativistic Wolvie is a hardcore stretch. 



Tom Servo said:


> Wolverine is around Spider-Man's level reaction wise. The fact that he does a better job reacting to Speed Demon is proof of that.....



Wolvie predicts Where Speed Demon will be. Not the same as reacting to him.


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 21, 2015)

xenos5 said:


> You didn't say Wolverine's faster then Hulk with low showings/relativistic speed. You just said he's faster then Hulk. And I don't trust either TBH. Relativistic Wolvie is a hardcore stretch.
> 
> 
> 
> Wolvie predicts Where Speed Demon will be. Not the same as reacting to him.



1. No I said his speed was comparable to his 

2. Wolverine still needs the speed to tag him...

3. Ofcourse superhuman wolverine is most certainly a hardcore stretch for you...I think its about time you come to terms with the fact that superhumans have superhuman stats...


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Aug 21, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> 1. No I said his speed was comparable to his
> 
> 2. Wolverine still needs the speed to tag him...
> 
> 3. Ofcourse superhuman wolverine is most certainly a hardcore stretch for you...I think its about time you come to terms with the fact that superhumans have superhuman stats...



are you kidding me?

that scan *LITERALLY *shows that Wolverine isn't fast enough to react and has to predict where to move his arms before hand in order to let speed demon run into them 

he missed five times and got socked in the face for all of them before managing to sneak an elbow in

nevermind that this is the exact same situation as Deathstroke v Flash and we all know how legit that is


----------



## Lucaniel (Aug 21, 2015)

what was tom servo's previous username

i think this might be important


----------



## Lucaniel (Aug 21, 2015)

>godzillafan430

i have vague negative memories

can someone confirm


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Aug 21, 2015)

confirmed


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Aug 21, 2015)

seconding the confirmation


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 21, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> 1. No I said his speed was comparable to his
> 
> 2. Wolverine still needs the speed to tag him...
> 
> 3. Ofcourse superhuman wolverine is most certainly a hardcore stretch for you...I think its about time you come to terms with the fact that superhumans have superhuman stats...



1.You said this "Wolverine being faster than Ben Grimm, Hulk, Cap and Spidey all of which are consistently Mach 2k+ to Relitivistic in speed (even more so with Thing and Hulk's" back on page 6.

I guess you typed comparable in white text 

2. Nightbringer put perfectly why this is wrong a page back.  

3. Superhuman? What kind of excuse is that? Maybe the fact that Wolvie's never shown feats on this level outside of wonky scaling? Or that the characters you're trying to scale him to either aren't on the level of speed you put them at (Lol at Cap and Spidey being between Mach 2000 and Relativistic) or they are but Wolvie shouldn't scale to them (Thing and Hulk)?


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 22, 2015)

xenos5 said:


> 1.You said this "Wolverine being faster than Ben Grimm, Hulk, Cap and Spidey all of which are consistently Mach 2k+ to Relitivistic in speed (even more so with Thing and Hulk's" back on page 6.
> 
> I guess you typed comparable in white text
> 
> ...



1. Obviously I meant Base Hulk that's the default version....

2. all of which are wrong anyway

3. Being comparable to Spidey, Cap, and Hulk do put him at Mach 2k....sorry bro but those are the facts

Also he still needs the speed to tag him...like it or not that's still a major speed feat that shits on Raiden's

@Qinglong 
wow what an embarrassing attempt at twisting my words around....way to come across as a noob.


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 22, 2015)

Lucaniel said:


> what was tom servo's previous username
> 
> i think this might be important





Lucaniel said:


> >godzillafan430
> 
> i have vague negative memories
> 
> can someone confirm





Nightbringer said:


> confirmed





Crimson Dragoon said:


> seconding the confirmation



Well isn't this fucking relevant...


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 22, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> 1. Obviously I meant Base Hulk that's the default version....
> 
> 2. all of which are wrong anyway
> 
> ...



1. Any version of Hulk has high end or even mid end speed feats that are ridiculous. Wolvie shouldn't scale to any of them.

2. How? Wolvie could not react to Speed Demon. Logan had to predict where Speed Demon would be so the guy'd run into his elbow. 

Tagging implies he was even moving. He got to where he predicted Speed Demon would run to and Speed Demon ran into his arm as he was standing still.

3. Spidey has nothing supporting him being at Mach 2k and Cap's reactions at melee range is mach 189  . Logan should not scale to Hulk period.


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 22, 2015)

xenos5 said:


> 1. Any version of Hulk has high end or even mid end speed feats that are ridiculous. Wolvie shouldn't scale to any of them.
> 
> 2. How? Wolvie could not react to Speed Demon. Logan had to predict where Speed Demon would be so the guy'd run into his elbow.
> 
> ...



1. Oh wow you really are new here...

2. Speed Demon wouldn't have any problems dodging him.....difference with the Deathstroke feat is the sword was pointing out where Wally wasn't looking. Wolverine still had to move his arms fast enough to tag him otherwise he would have casually tapdanced passed him.

3. he did move...his arm.


----------



## Qinglong (Aug 22, 2015)

No the Identity Crisis feat is fucking retarded and anyone trying to justify it deserves to be shot


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Aug 22, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> 1. Oh wow you really are new here...
> 
> 2. Speed Demon wouldn't have any problems dodging him.....difference with the Deathstroke feat is the sword was pointing out where Wally wasn't looking. Wolverine still had to move his arms fast enough to tag him otherwise he would have casually tapdanced passed him.
> 
> 3. he did move...his arm.







Wally runs directly ONTO the sword, it goes straight through him, not at an angle or anything

the only possible way this could happen would be wally throwing himself onto the blade because a few writers have no idea how to write superspeed as a superpower and just go for the dumbest possible way to get them out of the picture.

Note the dialogue, Deathstroke isn't faster than the flash he's just 'smarter' and has predicted where the Flash will be and stuck a sword in his path.

Now



This is the exact same thing, Speed Demon runs head on into wolverine's elbow. Again, the only way this could happen is if Speed Demon can't react to his own speed and just runs straight into the elbow. If you look above you see that Speed Demon can run circles around Wolverine, Wolverine takes five on panel sweeps with his claws and misses every single one.

Now look at the dialogue, Wolverine says he's not fast enough to track Speed Demon effectively, all he can do is put an elbow in a place where he knows Speed Demon is going to be.

It's literally the exact same scenario as Deathstroke v Flash

why are you so tremendously fucking dumb?


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Aug 22, 2015)

Deathstroke vs Saiyan Saga Goku incoming

death of a thousand MFTL cuts


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 22, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> 1. Oh wow you really are new here...
> 
> 2. Speed Demon wouldn't have any problems dodging him.....difference with the Deathstroke feat is the sword was pointing out where Wally wasn't looking. Wolverine still had to move his arms fast enough to tag him otherwise he would have casually tapdanced passed him.
> 
> 3. he did move...his arm.



1. I guess all of the other users who aren't supporting your Logan wank are just new here as well 

2. Speed Demon just couldn't control his momentum. Other speedsters have had this problem as well and Speed Demon has on multiple occasions iirc. Going at that level of speed and stopping on a dime isn't as easy as you might think.

3. Nope. He positioned himself where Speed Demon would be and timed it so he'd run into his elbow.


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 22, 2015)

Nightbringer said:


> Deathstroke vs Saiyan Saga Goku incoming
> 
> death of a thousand MFTL cuts



And you completely lose any form of credibility you had with that argument


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 22, 2015)

xenos5 said:


> 1. I guess all of the other users who aren't supporting your Logan wank are just new here as well
> 
> 2. Speed Demon just couldn't control his momentum. Other speedsters have had this problem as well and Speed Demon has on multiple occasions iirc. Going at that level of speed and stopping on a dime isn't as easy as you might think.
> 
> 3. Nope. He positioned himself where Speed Demon would be and timed it so he'd run into his elbow.



1. Nightbringer just likes to screw with me, MAPSK is naturally retarded....and really those are the only people worth mentioning....everyone else said Logan and then peaced out of the thread no doubt aware of the incoming wank

3. Again no he would need the speed to do that otherwise he wouldn't have even been tagged. Also even weakass characters like noob Ghost Rider in the 70s had micro second reaction time....at the time. And yes he was street level back then.


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Aug 22, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> And you completely lose any form of credibility



but at least I started with some


----------



## xenos5 (Aug 22, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> And you completely lose any form of credibility you had with that argument





How the hell could you have missed that obvious joke/sarcasm?


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 22, 2015)

xenos5 said:


> How the hell could you have missed that obvious joke/sarcasm?



>implies I missed the joke

> doesn't notice the fact that there are several things wrong with the joke to begin with immediately making it a dud.

You really should leave the big kid table, sorry little man amateur hour's over.


----------



## Tom Servo (Aug 22, 2015)

Nightbringer said:


> but at least I started with some



that's one hell of an exaggeration


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Aug 22, 2015)

anyway are you gonna respond to any of my actual arguments or keep the deflection going?


----------



## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Aug 22, 2015)

Annnnnnnnnnnd this thread is done.


----------

