# Prime Garp vs EoS Akainu



## Gledania (Mar 6, 2020)

Hello 


Who in this holy batledom sanctuary other than @Astro believe Akainu can reach the PK tier ?

Can Akainu beat prime garp ? 
Do you think the 10 day fight with Aokiji improved him highly ?


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## Lurko (Mar 6, 2020)

Garp.


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## Corax (Mar 6, 2020)

In most cases MC surpasses old gen/legends of the past. So Luffy>Roger, Akainu>prime Garp.


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## TheWiggian (Mar 6, 2020)

Will see, for now i doubt it or at best equal to prime Garp, but it might change.


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## trance (Mar 6, 2020)

Gledania said:


> Can Akainu beat prime garp ?



no



> Do you think the 10 day fight with Aokiji improved him highly ?



also no


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## stealthblack (Mar 6, 2020)

Basically strongest coa vs strongest fruit


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## Ludi (Mar 6, 2020)

Depends on when Akainu will be the main antagonist, pre or post Teach. And also how relevant he is EoS. 

Main antagonist LT Teach > Garp I think. If Akainu comes after and Akainu < Garp still then Luffy will loldiff him. If he comes before, what I hope, then he is most likey somewhere betweem admiral and primeWB/Prime Garp I suppose. Around Old WB level-ish.

Prime Roger >= PrimeWB >= Prime Garp > OldWB > sickWB >= MF admirals. Hopefully Akainu became at least stronger since.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 6, 2020)

for now P. Garp wins extreme diff, but things may change

Reactions: Like 1


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## trance (Mar 6, 2020)

akainu doesnt have the strongest fruit

Reactions: Like 4


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## Flame (Mar 6, 2020)

Being equal to prime Garp is being equal to prime Roger, so i'd say no. A really close fight nontheless.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ludi (Mar 6, 2020)

trance said:


> akainu doesnt have the strongest fruit


Indeed, teach has them


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## Beast (Mar 6, 2020)

Depends on if Akainu is last opponent tier. 

He could still be equal to prime Garp if he ends up fighting Sabo or Dragon. 

Akainu’s got a good chance at being stronger everyone else if he makes it to EoS.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gledania (Mar 6, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Sabo



Same reaching PK tier ?


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## Beast (Mar 6, 2020)

Gledania said:


> Same reaching PK tier ?


Yes, Sabo and Dragon will be on a similar tier to luffy. 
Sabo is only getting stronger and Dragon is the current WSM.


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## trance (Mar 6, 2020)

id rather oda offpanel akainu than have him be beaten by sabo


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## Beast (Mar 6, 2020)

trance said:


> id rather oda offpanel akainu than have him be beaten by sabo


Akainu offpanelled?  

Impossible.


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## trance (Mar 6, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Akainu offpanelled?
> 
> Impossible.



better than seeing him lose to sabo 

which wont happen

im just sayin 

sabo was a mistake

shoulda just left him dead

Reactions: Like 2


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## Gledania (Mar 6, 2020)

I want an Aokiji vs Akainu Round 2 tbh.


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## trance (Mar 6, 2020)

Gledania said:


> I want an Aokiji vs Akainu Round 2 tbh.



why would you want aokiji to take another L?


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## Lyren (Mar 6, 2020)

Akainu will never get to PK level, he is barely on par with the Yonko and he doesnt seem improving by sitting on his chair the whole day.


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## Gledania (Mar 6, 2020)

trance said:


> why would you want aokiji to take another L?



Next time Aokiji will win


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## Red Admiral (Mar 6, 2020)

EoS Akainu is current level Akainu


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## Amol (Mar 6, 2020)

Garp of course. 
I see Akainu only being slightly stronger than rest of the admirals. He has no reason to be in PK level where Garp is. Only Luffy's main enemy needs to be there which is Blackbeard. 
I don't really even think that Akainu is Luffy's fight anymore. Either Dragon or Sabo is beating him. I would prefer Sabo beating him just to see meltdowns on forum. Though given how much Japanese like Inherited Will stuff it is highly likely than Sabo will beat him.


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## SomnusUltima (Mar 6, 2020)

garp so stupid name, i hate all garp named peoples
akainu win


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## Steven (Mar 6, 2020)

Akainu is Sabos final enemy and Sabo will not be equal to PK Ruffy

So no,Prime Garp>EoS Akainu


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## Kinjin (Mar 6, 2020)

Toss-up.

A marine will definitely surpass Prime Garp. Since Koby will only reach that level in the epilogue Sakazuki is the likeliest candidate to at least become on par with Prime Garp.


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## Red Admiral (Mar 6, 2020)

Kinjin said:


> A marine will definitely surpass Prime Garp.



not really .... there is no need for that ... Garp hire is Luffy 

I think Oda imply that clearly


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## Kinjin (Mar 6, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> not really .... there is no need for that ... Garp hire is Luffy
> 
> I think Oda imply that clearly


That's not the point. Is Luffy a Marine soldier?

As always in Shonen the old gen will be surpassed. Garp won't be the strongest Marine ever by the end of the series.


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## Ren. (Mar 6, 2020)

Gledania said:


> Hello
> 
> 
> Who in this holy batledom sanctuary other than @Astro believe Akainu can reach the PK tier ?
> ...


Garp high diff at worst!



Red Admiral said:


> EoS Akainu is current level Akainu


Also this!


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## Fel1x (Mar 6, 2020)

only with greatest asspull Akainu can go from WB's ragdoll to being equal to Prime Garp

But Oda might not asspullingly power up him, cause he isn't even a main force of WG and final boss


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## Ren. (Mar 6, 2020)

Fel1x said:


> only with greatest asspull Akainu can go from WB's ragdoll to being equal to Prime Garp
> 
> But Oda might not asspullingly power up him, cause he isn't even a main force of WG and final boss


Neah he will not, Luffy needs to defeat Im, he does not have time for Akainu.

Sabo is enough for his ass.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Red Admiral (Mar 6, 2020)

Kinjin said:


> That's not the point. Is Luffy a Marine soldier?
> 
> As always in Shonen the old gen will be surpassed. Garp won't be the strongest Marine ever by the end of the series.



yes ... but it's already more than clear no one in Marine is even near the level of legendary hero of Marine ....

maybe Koby can surpass him .... DOUBT IT!!!!! .... but maybe in next era when Dragon rule the world ... Marine get some new blood ....

the new gen is the best is far more relevant in pirate world ... not everywhere


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## Kinjin (Mar 6, 2020)

Amol said:


> Garp of course.
> I see Akainu only being slightly stronger than rest of the admirals. He has no reason to be in PK level where Garp is. Only Luffy's main enemy needs to be there which is Blackbeard.
> I don't really even think that Akainu is Luffy's fight anymore. Either Dragon or Sabo is beating him. I would prefer Sabo beating him just to see meltdowns on forum. Though given how much Japanese like Inherited Will stuff it is highly likely than Sabo will beat him.


You forget that Roger had a marine and pirate rival/enemy in Garp and Whitebeard. And we also know how much Oda loves his parallels. 

Luffy's history with Sakazuki is too personal. Luffy literally flinched only because he heard his name, who knows what he'll do once he meets him again. It's far too important for Luffy's character growth to pass on this opportunity. Imagine when Sakazuki mocks Ace in front of him.


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## Steven (Mar 6, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Neah he will not, Luffy needs to defeat Im, he does not have time for Akainu.
> 
> Sabo is enough for his ass.


Indeed,i dont see how Akainu turns from getting 2 shotted by WB,to PK Tier

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Mar 6, 2020)

Kinjin said:


> Luffy's history with Sakazuki is too personal.


We are a lot of chapters in after MF and Luffy never mentioned Akainu nor did he ever say he needs to defeat him, yet he said he has to defeat all Yonko and if Admirals get in his way he also will deal with them.

Oda never once highlighted that Luffy will fight or wants to fight Akainu this was only fans dreaming it.

In fact, Luffy said many times he wants to best Shanks yet fans want BB to kill him.

And If my memory serves me right, fans never were right wit the main plot points ever in almost 1000 chapters.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Steven (Mar 6, 2020)

Sabo vs Akainu will be Akainu vs Ace 2.0

And Sabo will kick Akainus ass to revenge Ace.Thats set in stone

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kinjin (Mar 6, 2020)

Red Admiral said:


> yes ... but it's already more than clear no one in Marine is even near the level of legendary hero of Marine ....
> 
> maybe Koby can surpass him .... DOUBT IT!!!!! .... but maybe in next era when Dragon rule the world ... Marine get some new blood ....
> 
> the new gen is the best is far more relevant in pirate world ... not everywhere


We'll have to disagree then.



Acno said:


> Indeed,i dont see how Akainu turns from getting 2 shotted by WB,to PK Tier


This has been rebutted and pointed out to you so many times but you choose to ignore the arguments still.



Acno said:


> Sabo vs Akainu will be Akainu vs Ace 2.0
> 
> And Sabo will kick Akainus ass to revenge Ace.Thats set in stone


That's only what you would like to happen.


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## Corax (Mar 6, 2020)

Sabo vs Akainu in theory might happen after Imu kills Dragon for example (so rev. commander Sabo vs marine commander Akainu). But this is irrelevant. At this point all major players will be PK+ since this is a shounen.


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## Amol (Mar 6, 2020)

Kinjin said:


> You forget that Roger had a marine and pirate rival/enemy in Garp and Whitebeard. And we also know how much Oda loves his parallels.
> 
> Luffy's history with Sakazuki is too personal. Luffy literally flinched only because he heard his name, who knows what he'll do once he meets him again. It's far too important for Luffy's character growth to pass on this opportunity. Imagine when Sakazuki mocks Ace in front of him.


Well if you want parallel so much then then it kind of requires PK level Marine to be a good guy. Roger and Garp were good friends  after all. 
I personally hate parallelism. To me every character should be their own entity instead of parallel version of some past character. 
Luffy has no need for his Garp. 
Now Luffy is not Sasuke. Luffy is also not Law. Those guys are motivated by revenge. Luffy does not. Remember that after Rosinante was murdered Law literally made it his life's mission to take down DD. He lived for his revenge. Luffy does not. Being a Pirate King is still Luffy's primary motivation. Sure he might beat Akainu if they come across but it is not necessary thing for Luffy. Luffy will be more than happy if Sabo avenged Ace. Ace was Sabo's brother too. His death was painful for him too. That is how he regained his memories. He inherited Ace's will. To me it makes logical sense for Sabo to beat Akainu. This forum hates Sabo I know that but that is irrelevant minority. In Japan he is extremely popular and rightfully so. So I don't see why Oda won't do it. 
As for WG having a PK level guy to match Roger/Garp parallel well there is Imu. His character is pointless if he is suppose to be just some desk politician. We already had Gorosei for that. 
Why make redundant characters? 
It is clear that Oda intents to make Imu powerhouse of the WG so there is that.


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## Kinjin (Mar 6, 2020)

Ren. said:


> We are a lot of chapters in after MF and Luffy never mentioned Akainu nor did he ever say he needs to defeat him, yet he said he has to defeat all Yonko and if Admirals get in his way he also will deal with them.


Luffy mentioned Akainu...





> Oda never once highlighted that Luffy will fight or wants to fight Akainu this was only fans dreaming it.


He killed his brother right before his eyes and had mental breakdown. It's the reason why he went to train for 2 years.



> In fact, Luffy said many times he wants to best Shanks yet fans want BB to kill him.


He wants to defeat all Yonko, not just Shanks. Show me the panel where he *explicitly *singled out Shanks.



> And If my memory serves me right, fans never were right wit the main plot points ever in almost 1000 chapters.


Then I'm afraid your memory failed you.


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## Ren. (Mar 6, 2020)

Kinjin said:


> He killed his brother right before his eyes and had mental breakdown. It's the reason why he went to train for 2 years.


Yet he never said once he wants to defeat him, yet he never once said he wants revenge against someone!


Kinjin said:


> Luffy mentioned Akainu...


Yes, The one that made that wound!


Kinjin said:


> He wants to defeat all Yonko, not just Shanks. Show me the panel where he *explicitly *singled out Shanks.







If you have read carefully the manga from chapter one Luffy wants to fight Shanks crew vs crew and surpass him.

The other Yonko are for him to reach PK!

There are like 20 panels were Shanks and Luffy talk about each other.

@Red Admiral has more of those I presume.

There is no panel that Luffy talks about Akainu or any Admiral like it is a must for him to defeat one!

As I had all of those are what the fandom and I presume the Admiral fandom wants.



Kinjin said:


> Then I'm afraid your memory failed you.


Sorry, you are quite wrong, my memory is one of my best traits!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Corax (Mar 6, 2020)

Amol said:


> Well if you want parallel so much then then it kind of requires PK level Marine to be a good guy. Roger and Garp were good friends  after all.
> I personally hate parallelism. To me every character should be their own entity instead of parallel version of some past character.
> Luffy has no need for his Garp.
> Now Luffy is not Sasuke. Luffy is also not Law. Those guys are motivated by revenge. Luffy does not. Remember that after Rosinante was murdered Law literally made it his life's mission to take down DD. He lived for his revenge. Luffy does not. Being a Pirate King is still Luffy's primary motivation. Sure he might beat Akainu if they come across but it is not necessary thing for Luffy. Luffy will be more than happy if Sabo avenged Ace. Ace was Sabo's brother too. His death was painful for him too. That is how he regained his memories. He inherited Ace's will. To me it makes logical sense for Sabo to beat Akainu. This forum hates Sabo I know that but that is irrelevant minority. In Japan he is extremely popular and rightfully so. So I don't see why Oda won't do it.
> ...


Imu is more like a god/one who defeated previous Joy Boy. He is above PK/Garp etc. Luffy will need to fight at least one strong WG opponent before Imu and after Raftel.


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## Kinjin (Mar 6, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Yet he never said once he wants to defeat him, yet he never once said he wants revenge against someone!


I never said that Luffy will go out of his way to defeat Akainu, only that they will clash at some point. Acno and you on the other state it as a fact that Sabo is going to defeat him.



> Yes, The one that made that wound!


Thanks for admitting that you were wrong.

Thanks for proving my point.

Meet =/= fight



> If you have read carefully the manga from chapter one Luffy wants to fight Shanks crew vs crew and surpass him.


Expect he never stated that.


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## Ren. (Mar 6, 2020)

Kinjin said:


> Acno and you on the other state it as a fact that Sabo is going to fight him.


No, we are stating that it has more base to do so, you are stating that Akainu is a must for me Akainu  can be defeated by Aokiji,Sabo, Dragon Shanks who ever.
Oda never spent one panel to foreshadow that.
Yet you refute the multitude of panels where Shanks talked about Luffy and vice-versa.
I never even said it should be a deadly battle only something like Roger vs WB wi the exception that Luffy is on top and not equal with Shanks.




Kinjin said:


> Thanks for admitting that you were wrong.


Now you are either trolling me or straw maning because I am sure that I stated, Luffy never once said that he wants to defeat Akainu, Him discussing Akainu, not even that, mentioning Akainu when Jimbei was talking about him is not that!


Kinjin said:


> Meet =/= fight


Saying Akainu one time in 1000 chapters in not Akainu being PK level so I don't really want to hear that from you!



Kinjin said:


> Expect he never stated that.




Yep, not worth the characters anymore.


Corax said:


> uffy will need to fight at least one strong WG opponent before Imu and after Raftel.


He defeated BB that is above PK Roger so yeah he has the fight before Im!

As I stated before there is not one panel from Oda for Akainu to be above BB or after BB yet the fandom is so sure, I will laugh my ass when this is so proven false by Oda.


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## Mob (Mar 6, 2020)

Eos Akainu will end up as the strongest marine in history


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## Ruse (Mar 6, 2020)

Garp extreme diff


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## Steven (Mar 6, 2020)

Kinjin said:


> We'll have to disagree then.
> 
> 
> This has been rebutted and pointed out to you so many times but you choose to ignore the arguments still.
> ...


It was never debanked.Akainu was out of the fight after 2 quakes and waited under the ground until WB died.Akainu is a coward.

What i would like to happen?Akainu has nothing to do with Ruffy.Sabo comes back to take Ace´s place.

Ruffy wants to become the PK ergo a lap-dog of the WG is irrelevant for him.Even Rob Lucci has more authority as Akainu


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## Turrin (Mar 6, 2020)

In my opinion Akainu is the modern day Garp; and as such he will be >= Prime Garp. People don’t agree with this because they tier Prime Garp at the same level as Prime Roger; since he was threat to Roger back in the day, but honestly the same thing can be said about Akainu in relation to the Modern Future PK Luffy. When all is said and done in One Piece even after Luffy beats stronger enemies then Akainu like Teach and maybe IMU; readers and the people in the verse will still be saying Akainu was one of Luffy main enemies that almost killed him several times; that much is guaranteed.

There is also plenty that indicate Garp is not on the level of Roger. The biggest indicator of this being the fact that Rocks not Garp was considered Roger’a greatest rival; and after Rocks death WB not Garp was considered the only one who could fight equally (with what was likely Sick Roger); and it was WB who even Old/Sick was WSM not Garp. Garp is a step below Prime Roger level; and probably even Sick Roger / Prime WB level; and is more along the lines of Akainu; or at worst Post TS stronger Akainu

As for who wins the match I give the edge to Akainu; as he has a greater sense of justice and will to uphold and is the modern Garp who is likely stronger


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## Kinjin (Mar 6, 2020)

Acno said:


> What i would like to happen?Akainu has nothing to do with Ruffy.Sabo comes back to take Ace´s place.
> 
> Ruffy wants to become the PK ergo a lap-dog of the WG is irrelevant for him.Even Rob Lucci has more authority as Akainu





Ren. said:


> No, we are stating that it has more base to do so, you are stating that Akainu is a must for me Akainu  can be defeated by Aokiji,Sabo, Dragon Shanks who ever.
> Oda never spent one panel to foreshadow that.


Just eating Ace's DF doesn't equate to Sabo being the likeliest person to defeat Akainu. I can only repeat myself because you didn't address any of my arguments. He killed his brother before his very own eyes and gave him a permanent scar that hurts because of a mere mention of Akainu.

_"I'll never forgive the evils of piracy!!!"_ - Sakazuki

He stands for everything Luffy hates.



> Yet you refute the multitude of panels where Shanks talked about Luffy and vice-versa.
> I never even said it should be a deadly battle only something like Roger vs WB wi the exception that Luffy is on top and not equal with Shanks.


Luffy's promise to Shanks is that he'll give him his strawhat back once he becomes a great pirate. I'm not even sure why you brought up Shanks because he isn't an enemy unlike Akainu. They won't fight to death.



> Now you are either trolling me or straw maning because I am sure that I stated, Luffy never once said that he wants to defeat Akainu, Him discussing Akainu, not even that, mentioning Akainu when Jimbei was talking about him is not that!


You said that Luffy didn't mention Akainu after MF which I disproved with the panel I posted to which you replied "Yes, The one that made that wound!".



> Saying Akainu one time in 1000 chapters in not Akainu being PK level so I don't really want to hear that from you!


What does this have to do with my quoted message? Shanks said he wants to *meet *Luffy. Not that he'll be able to fight him soon.



> Yep, not worth the characters anymore.


This is what you said "Luffy wants to fight Shanks crew vs crew and surpass him."

In the panel you posted Luffy said _"One day, I'll find myself a crew that is as strong as yours!! And then I'll find the world's biggest treasure!". _

Luffy didn't say he wants to fight Shanks' crew and surpass him like you claim.

Reactions: Like 5


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 6, 2020)

Sabo has plenty of targets to fight
such as _*Gorosei and CP0 leader*_
thats assuming his fight doesnt get off-paneled

Akainu isnt even Sabos enemy - they wage war on CDs, not Marines
Akainu himself may start fisting the Gorosei at some point

@Kinjin outlined why the  Akainu vs Luffy thing is big

Reactions: Like 2


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## Bash24 (Mar 6, 2020)

Garp easily, no difference between EoS Akainu and marine ford Akainu and even if there is it's negligent.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 7, 2020)

Turrin said:


> In my opinion Akainu is the modern day Garp; and as such he will be >= Prime Garp. People don’t agree with this because they tier Prime Garp at the same level as Prime Roger; since he was threat to Roger back in the day, but honestly the same thing can be said about Akainu in relation to the Modern Future PK Luffy. When all is said and done in One Piece even after Luffy beats stronger enemies then Akainu like Teach and maybe IMU; readers and the people in the verse will still be saying Akainu was one of Luffy main enemies that almost killed him several times; that much is guaranteed.
> 
> There is also plenty that indicate Garp is not on the level of Roger. The biggest indicator of this being the fact that Rocks not Garp was considered Roger’a greatest rival; and after Rocks death WB not Garp was considered the only one who could fight equally (with what was likely Sick Roger); and it was WB who even Old/Sick was WSM not Garp. Garp is a step below Prime Roger level; and probably even Sick Roger / Prime WB level; and is more along the lines of Akainu; or at worst Post TS stronger Akainu
> 
> As for who wins the match I give the edge to Akainu; as he has a greater sense of justice and will to uphold and is the modern Garp who is likely stronger



People saying Akainu is not Garp is not based on power levels. It's based on them being nothing alike. 

Garp hates authority and strives to do his own thing despite the corrupt WG. Which is why he protected Roger's son Ace, Akainu would do no such thing he would gladly kill Roger's son. 

Akainu is Fleet Admiral, Garp stayed at the rank of Vice Admiral so he can have more freedom. 

Garp actively chased Roger and had multiple interactions with him. Akainus only interaction with Luffy was in Marineford. There next interaction will more then likely be luffys fist in his face. 

Smoker fits the bill if you want to try and make connections. 

Now in terms of power level sure Akainu is the current Garp as he is the strongest marine, but when people are talking about who is a parallel of Garp the conversation isn't who's the strongest marine, but who best serves Garps role in the manga in relation to roger and now Luffy. Which again would be Smoker. 

This generation doesn't have a Garp or Sengoku imo though, people get to hung up on this shit.


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## Ren. (Mar 7, 2020)

Kinjin said:


> Just eating Ace's DF doesn't equate to Sabo being the likeliest person to defeat Akainu. I can only repeat myself because you didn't address any of my arguments


Are you for real?
I just said anyone can defeat Akainu, Oda never once has shown us that it is a must to be  Luffy's enemy, not once!



Kinjin said:


> _"I'll never forgive the evils of piracy!!!"_ - Sakazuki
> 
> He stands for everything Luffy hates.


Yeah,

and he did shit vs BB or other Yonko!

And Luffy is not an evil pirate so again...

Oda never made this matchup or foreshadowed, it is all in the fans mind.


Kinjin said:


> They won't fight to death.


So you are really trolling me, I alraedy said that! Yet that fight has more foreshadowing that any Admiral fight including Akainu.



Kinjin said:


> You said that Luffy didn't mention Akainu after MF which I disproved with the panel I posted to which you replied "Yes, The one that made that wound!".


Again are you trolling me?
I am serious and stop saying I did not even read your post because I did and you in fact never disproven what I said, you have one name-calling from Luffy one in 1000 chapters and that was because the subject was Akainu then.



Kinjin said:


> This is what you said "Luffy wants to fight Shanks crew vs crew and surpass him."
> 
> In the panel you posted Luffy said _"One day, I'll find myself a crew that is as strong as yours!! And then I'll find the world's biggest treasure!". _
> 
> Luffy didn't say he wants to fight Shanks' crew and surpass him like you claim.


Oh, brother ...
And he wants to fight Akainu by never stating anything but a name when Jimbei was talking about him in 1000 chapters?

So let me guess he wants to meet him when he is strong to give him the hat?

Shanks never wanted to see him when he was too weak because of the hat.

And I was not addressing what?

Again if you are so fixated on exact words for Shanks then do so for Akainu, Shanks and Luffy will meet, they can fight or not but as you said Oda never mentioned Akainu as an opponent for Luffy Zor and Sanji can have him, so based on what you said they will never fight nor will Shanks.



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> People saying Akainu is not Garp is not based on power levels


Yes we are, Akainu almost kicked the bucket vs an almost daying WB!
Prime WB would mid diff him.

And now AKainu is 55 he can't  increase his power like Luffy or BB so he can't go from mid diff to above BB that will be above Roger.

Also, it will cheapen the fight that Oda foreshadowed the most BB.

And those that support this can explain to me how will Akainu be stronger then BB with one DF?
And don't tell me COA or COO because we saw how good those were in MF!

I mean Oda even gave us Im but he fans ignore that and put Akainu as PK level or above for some odd reason when Oda never made it so.
I am disappointed in fans wanting to cheapen the best vs that we will have BB vs Luffy that was foreshadowed since Jaya.

And if Akainu is so inferior to BB then the fight has not point and him been even a little inferior will as I  said cheapen BB.

I mean he needs 3 DF or 2 to be the same level as Akainu that for the past 20 years was doing nothing vs Yonko ... hard pass.

And Oda already said who is this gen's Garp:

*Spoiler*: __ 









Garp was what Luffy is as a PIrate, someone that does what he wants and fight the bad ones that he does not like.

There is no WB or Roger or Garp in this timeline because those all are


Oda only made a couple of parallels:

Joy boy to Roger to Luffy.


And Ryuma to Zoro

The rest are the fandom's fan fiction.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sherlōck (Mar 7, 2020)

Can go either way extreme difficulty.


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## Kinjin (Mar 7, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Are you for real?
> I just said anyone can defeat Akainu, Oda never once has shown us that it is a must to be  Luffy's enemy, not once!


Okay, so everyone except Luffy is more likely to defeat Akainu according to you. You still refuse to address any of my points and provide no counter-arguments.



> Yeah,
> 
> and he did shit vs BB or other Yonko!


Balance of power, have you heard of it? This applies to all Yonko as well. They couldn't take each other out because they're at a stalemate.



> And Luffy is not an evil pirate so again...
> 
> Oda never made this matchup or foreshadowed, it is all in the fans mind.


Sakazuki follows Absolute Justice. As far as he's concerned every pirate is evil. He wants Luffy dead.



> So you are really trolling me, I alraedy said that! Yet that fight has more foreshadowing that any Admiral fight including Akainu.


I wasn't the one to bring Shanks up. I addressed this but you chose to only quote the sentence that they won't fight to death. Saying Shanks vs Luffy has more of a chance to happen is no argument. Make a thread if you think Luffy is going to fight Shanks. This is about Sakazuki.



> Again are you trolling me?
> I am serious and stop saying I did not even read your post because I did and you in fact never disproven what I said, you have one name-calling from Luffy one in 1000 chapters and that was because the subject was Akainu then.


Dude, you literally said Luffy *never *mentioned Akainu. But he did, it doesn't matter if it was only once or because Jinbei mentioned him first.


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## Ren. (Mar 7, 2020)

Kinjin said:


> Okay, so everyone except Luffy is more likely to defeat Akainu according to you.


No, this is what you projected, I said that Luffy has as much chances to defeat Akainu as any other top tier.

But the problem is that Luffy should be above BB and Akainu will either get destroyed or ass pulled to at least ~ BB!


Kinjin said:


> Balance of power, have you heard of it? This applies to all Yonko as well. They couldn't take each other out because they're at a stalemate.


Yes and WG just has gone to war with WBP, Garp attacked Xebec and Roger numerous times ... where was that before after all Sengoku was his partner.



Kinjin said:


> Sakazuki follows Absolute Justice. As far as he's concerned every pirate is evil. He wants Luffy dead.


yes and does shit to absolute evil like BB or to catch Luffy so yeah his absolute justice is way shittier than what Sengoku did!

The problem is that Luffy gives two shits about Akainu after he defeats Kaido he and Zoro, Sanji and Jimbei will shit on any Admiral that Akainu will send + x amount of fooders.

Bring two Admirals and BB attacks  MF.

So after Wano, his justice means shit exactly as vs a Yonko, in fact Luffy will have himself top tiers FM+ Zoro, Sanji, and JImbei high tiers, Ray will help top tier, Sabo will help ~ top, Shanks will help top tier, Dragon will help top tier so yeah.


Kinjin said:


> Saying Shanks vs Luffy has more of a chance to happen is no argument. Make a thread if you think Luffy is going to fight Shanks. This is about Sakazuki.


In fact, you are wrong this is an Akainu vs Prime Garp the one that fought alongside and against Roger.

Akainu already has shown he was almost killed by Old WB that was sick with  Ivy.
To go from there to extreme diffing Luffy that surpassed BB that surpassed Roger means that he will get asspulled to that level to do what when Oda already foreshadowed Im as a natural enemy of Joy boy that is represented int this generation by Luffy.


Kinjin said:


> Dude, you literally said Luffy *never *mentioned Akainu. But he did, it doesn't matter if it was only once or because Jinbei mentioned him first.


Dude Let me quote myself because you are straw-manning me to no end.



Ren. said:


> We are a lot of chapters in after MF and *Luffy never mentioned Akainu nor did he ever say he needs to defeat him*,



The context was very simple and you know it he never mentioned him as potential must as an enemy ... THIS IS WHY I SAID and he never said he wanted to defeat him.

So again if you understood that I said LUFFY Never ever said Akainu's name then I was wrong but it seams I mentioned the context after all, in the scope of I MUST defeat Akainu.
Now the civilized end would be to agree to disagree because I sure don't see how you can say that Akainu must be defeated by Luffy when Oda never said so, implied, foreshadowed etc.

I mean Oda prepared BB from Jaya so Akainu that was bullied by WB to be put above that when he can use Im with a uber hax DF, ancient weapons and so on.


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## Ren. (Mar 7, 2020)

Also, it seems you don't understand my point @Kinjin  ... I don't care if Akainu faces Luffy but I care if it is before or after BB.

You either destroy Akainu after BB or you face him before BB, I don't care but to say and extrapolate him as being Prime Garp when Garp had opponents like Roger and Xebec is fanboying nothing more from my POW.

Aokiji and Old and sick WB disagree with the notion you either put them next to Prime Roger or you put BB that much weaker than Prime Roger so yeah you either ass pull Akainu to PK+ level or downgrade BB so Akainu can be put that high.

So Prime Garp utterly shits on old and sick WB with mid-high diff, he gives a high diff to Akainu at most.

You don't go to PK level just because you are a top tier.

You either fight top tiers for sports like *Garp, WB and Roge*r or eat DF's for breakfast like *BB*!


*Spoiler*: __ 















And finally, you defeat top tiers for breakest as *Luffy* will do.


Akainu has none of this: he can't fight top tiers because he will get defeated by his next one: Luffy or whoever and he is quite old 55.
He can't eat DF's like BB and he did not start like Luffy defeating Top tiers from 19.


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## trance (Mar 7, 2020)

just as long as sabo isnt the one to beat akainu or he doesnt get tnj'd, any route oda goes with akainu is fine with me


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## Kinjin (Mar 7, 2020)

@Ren., your whole post amounts to downplaying Akainu. You and me aren't going to change our stance anytime soon so w/e.



Ren. said:


> Dude Let me quote myself because you are straw-manning me to no end.


Stop saying straw-manning when you don't like to admit that you're wrong.



> So again if you understood that I said LUFFY Never ever said Akainu's name then I was wrong


Exactly.

Let me show you:


Ren. said:


> We are a lot of chapters in after MF and Luffy never mentioned Akainu nor did he ever say he needs to defeat him,


The key word is *nor* here. The first part of your sentence is false as you yourself admitted. As for the second part:





Ren. said:


> Now the civilized end would be to agree to disagree because I sure don't see how you can say that Akainu must be defeated by Luffy when Oda never said so, implied, foreshadowed etc.
> 
> I mean Oda prepared BB from Jaya so Akainu that was bullied by WB to be put above that when he can use Im with a uber hax DF, ancient weapons and so on.


Once again ignoring my arguments... It's quite exhausting.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ren. (Mar 7, 2020)

Kinjin said:


> @Ren., *your whole post amounts to downplaying *Akainu. You and me aren't going to change our stance anytime soon so w/e.
> 
> 
> Stop saying straw-manning when you don't like to admit that you're wrong.
> ...


If you beleive that Akainu is PK level yes I am doing that but he is not so we disagree on that aspect!


This does not work in your favor , BB is not just an Yonko when he will face him.
Yonko will be no more or Luffy would have surpassed them.

So again for him, Yonko or Admirals aka top tiers are irrelevant to him.

BB and IM are foreshadowed by Oda to be end game material ... Akainu was foreshadowed when?

Also yes I will downplay as many times Akainu as needed to not put him above BB:



Oda was very clear what BB is to the series long before Akainu even existed!

Akainu is this for me from what Oda put him to be:




You can choose.


And no matter on how many panels with deflection you put Akainu has nor the feats or portrait to be end game material for Luffy!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ezekjuninor (Mar 7, 2020)

Prime garp high diff. Akainu has never been portrayed as Luffy's rival like Garp was to Roger. Too many people forcing this Luffy and Roger parallel imo it would be like me stating that Kidd is Luffy's closest parallel to WB, therefore, EoS Kidd is PK tier . I don't see why Akainu would somehow get significantly stronger in 2 years when he's already 55 years old and especially when he has 0 feats to even suggest that.

An out of prime, sick WB 2 pieced him. Garp should be near equal and possibly equal to a prime WB/Roger from his hype, achievements and portrayal. I don't see how you can make a case for Akainu being on that level. I'm guessing the best-case scenario for Akainu is he has a battle with EoS Sabo and Sabo defeats him showing that Ace's Mera wasn't weaker than Akainu's magma. If not, what I actually expect to happen is that Akainu shows up at the final war and plays a minor role while Im and the gorosei play a far bigger role. Akainu has little plot relevance and the marines have hardly been mentioned since post-skip.


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## Turrin (Mar 7, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> People saying Akainu is not Garp is not based on power levels. It's based on them being nothing alike.
> 
> Garp hates authority and strives to do his own thing despite the corrupt WG. Which is why he protected Roger's son Ace, Akainu would do no such thing he would gladly kill Roger's son.
> 
> ...


And I don’t agree with this; as people are comparing Garp as he is now; as an Old Man; to Akainu. Yes currently your right that Old Garp and Akainu are nothing alike, but what about Garp prior his team up with Roger against Rocks; when he was actively hunting Roger? We don’t have any basis for what Garp was like back then; he could have been all about absolute Justice and wanting to become the strongest Marine, just like Akainu, until he gained more respect for Pirates and less for the WG during the God Valley incident. 

Akainu is also setup in such a way that he will likely be beaten by Luffy and reevaluate his stance and outlook; as most villains Luffy beats tend to soften and even join Luffy later on in the series; for example Crocodile. After Akainu is beaten by Luffy, we don’t know how he will act, but he will likely soften like Crocodile did and him turning out to be like Garp at the end of the story would not be surprising. 
—
Anyway Akainu is Luffy main enemy from the Marines as Roger’s main enemy was Garp; whether they end up the same personality wise or not; really doesn’t matter, what matters is for Luffy to overcome the Marines of his time he has to go through Akainu the same way Roger had to go through Garp. In this way I would expect Luffy main Marine enemy to be >= Roger’s; is basically all I was saying.


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## Ren. (Mar 7, 2020)

Kinjin said:


> your whole post amounts to downplaying Akainu.


Also not my fault that Oda portraited Akainu like this:



And PK level as this:


You think PK level Roger and WB would do the same as Old WB, they would kill him one shot in that situation.



Turrin said:


> what matters *is for Luffy to overcome the Marines* of his time he has to go through Akainu the same way Roger had to go through Garp. In this way I would expect Luffy *main Marine enemy to be >= Roger’s*


Shit now Akainu > Roger 

Luffy's main enemies are the WG not he marines, he needs to overthrow the WG not Akainu that is below Kong who is below Gorosei who is below Im.

Akainu can get killed tomorrow and the WG will be the same 

If Akainu had died Aokiji would have been FA!

Reactions: Like 2


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## Steven (Mar 7, 2020)

Akainu~Aokiji,who is now BB´s underling

And Rob Luccis authority>Akainu´s.

In which world has the magma coward a good portrayal?


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## Beast (Mar 7, 2020)

Acno said:


> Akainu~Aokiji,who is now BB´s underling
> 
> And Rob Luccis authority>Akainu´s.
> 
> In which world has the magma coward a good portrayal?




At this point, if it’s not harmless fun... people should be ban for this kind of behaviour. 

I can’t even follow the joke.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Mar 7, 2020)

Acno said:


> Akainu has nothing to do with Ruffy.


Agreed, I don't recall Akainu ever meeting this Ruffy person, so don't think Oda should waste time having them fight each other. Now Luffy, that's someone Akainu has a lot to do with. After all, Akainu killed his brother in front of him (the first major onscreen death in the present), caused Luffy to go into a coma, permanently scarred him, and nearly made him give up his dream, and as @Kinjin pointed out, Jimbei merely mentioning Akainu back at Fishman Island caused Luffy to angrily react. After all of that, not only would it not make much sense, it would be a terrible decision to not have Luffy fight Akainu.
OT: Prime Garp wins high diff at least, may change depending on if Akainu has gotten any stronger.

Reactions: Like 2


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## trance (Mar 7, 2020)

the hell?

cp0 is _outside_ akainu's authority

not above it

this level of downplay is just laughable

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Mar 7, 2020)

trance said:


> the hell?
> 
> cp0 is _outside_ akainu's authority
> 
> ...


The same as because he is FA he is stronger than an Admiral.

MF Akainu 2 shot down by WB, after 1 years extreme diff ultra version 10 days Aokiji.

Final arc Akainu now gets to BB+ level that is Roger+ level because wait for it he is a FA and Luffy needs to defeat the Marines and not the WG for some reason.

So if it is because of his position then Kong is BB++  and Im is BB++++.

Or as common sense dictates Akainu is already 55 at peak and his level is the one in MF aka this one:


And yes his FS here backfired and his uber advanced barrier COA just was not home that day and to make mather worse  Old guy WB was at his peak that day and his COA was PK level ++:



Now after all these pannels as I said *Prime Garp at the worst low-end highs diff Prime Akainu!

Hater or not, now we can't give PK PL just to every top tier with a position.*


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## Turrin (Mar 7, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Also not my fault that Oda portraited Akainu like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Who said Akainu > Roger, I’ve been pretty empathic in my belief that; Prime Roger > Sick Roger > Akainu >= Prime Garp

The marines are one enemy Luffy needs to go through; alongside the WG and Yonko. Akainu is the strongest Marine.


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## Ren. (Mar 7, 2020)

Turrin said:


> The marines are one enemy Luffy needs to go through; alongside the WG


WG is Marines + other.

If you believe Marines will be defeated then Kong, Gorosei , CPO, and IM so be it!


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## Turrin (Mar 7, 2020)

Ren. said:


> WG is Marines + other.
> 
> If you believe Marines will be defeated then Kong, Gorosei , CPO, and IM so be it!


Yes they are part of the WG; but they will likely be dealt with by Luffy before he faces IMU


Akainu is like Pain from Naruto once; he is defeated then IMU will reveal himself and take charge


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## Kinjin (Mar 7, 2020)

Posting some fanart and spamming that WB vs Akainu panel as well as comparing it to some unrelated panel obviously proves your point @Ren. You sure showed me!


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## Ren. (Mar 7, 2020)

Kinjin said:


> Posting some fanart and spamming that WB vs Akainu panel as well as comparing it to some unrelated panel obviously proves your point @Ren. You sure showed me!


You have proven me wrong by spamming that Akainu was named by Luffy once ...
And that Luffy wants to defeat all Yonko and Admirals.

This is how you have proven me that Akainu was selected between all top tiers and not Im and BB to be last enemies.

And with that, you disproven that WB 2 shot him in MF and AKainu after that needed 10 days to extreme diff Aokijj.

That is how you have proven me that Akainu is to be an enemy that will be extremely diffed by PK Luffy that already surpassed BB that surpassed Roger by eating 3 DF and not IM Neah Akainu.

Somehow BB needs to eat 2 DF to surpass Roger but my man Akainu after that 10 days extreme diff got his haki to PK++

As I said we disagree on MF Akainu that and we also disagree that Akainu is stronger at EOS.


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## Yuji (Mar 7, 2020)

Ren. said:


> You have proven me wrong by spamming that Akainu was named by Luffy once ...



He was named but it was hardly significant, since the next panel Luffy is just casually chomping meat


Akainu just brought back an unpleasant memory, he has never expressed any desire to fight Akainu he just told Fujitora he won't run from him and beat him if he stands in his way.

The context of Luffy's speech to Fujitora was that he wasn't going to run away anymore, not that he was going to go after every individual and fight them.

He has only ever expressed the desire to defeat Yonko


He has never mentioned admirals in such a fashion.


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## Ren. (Mar 7, 2020)

Yuji said:


> He was named but it was hardly significant, since the next panel Luffy is just casually chomping meat
> 
> 
> Akainu just brought back an unpleasant memory, he has never expressed any desire to fight Akainu he just told Fujitora he won't run from him and beat him if he stands in his way.
> ...


I know all of that.
That is my point, don't tell me this @Kinjin  is the one that is refuting all of this.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Mar 7, 2020)

Yuji said:


> He has only ever expressed the desire to defeat Yonko
> 
> 
> *He has never mentioned admirals in such a fashion.*

Reactions: Like 2


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## Yuji (Mar 7, 2020)

Translation is wrong


Stop using your fanlations, use the official (Viz).

@Kinjin


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## Ren. (Mar 7, 2020)

Yuji said:


> Translation is wrong
> 
> 
> Stop using your fanlations, use the official.
> ...


I did this syntax and translation wars so many times that I will pass on it this time.
@KaidoBoby  is good at this Zehaha.


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## Yuji (Mar 7, 2020)

Ren. said:


> I did this syntax and translation wars so many times that I will pass on it this time.
> @KaidoBoby  is good at this Zehaha.



Viz >> any other translation, unless someone can show an error at the source

I had a look over most of the times he mentions wanting to beat people, and Viz have been pretty consistent that he doesn't give two shits about going after the marines, unless you take his speech to Fujitora wildly out of context as @Kinjin has been doing.


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## Sherlōck (Mar 7, 2020)

WB two shotting Akainu argument comes from a place of insecurity cause people knows that if the role was reversed and Akainu had a shot at WB's head then WB would have died then & there. There would be no comeback from there.


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## RossellaFiamingo (Mar 7, 2020)

Seeing that the Yonko are >= Prime Garp meaning it's a high high difficulty and extreme difficulty fight for them, and the Yonko when healthy should be able to Low High Diff any Admiral Including Sakazuki, Garp takes this Mid High Diff. Akainu is not all that relevant to Luffy. He is a side piece character and the most we will get are some fading panels of Sabo beating him to avenge ace. The New World is all about the Yonko not Admirals. Even if Admirals get an arc, it will be a short one much like Zou because there really isn't anymore time in the story to explore Admirals.


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## RossellaFiamingo (Mar 7, 2020)

@Daisuke Jigen  I wouldn't mind it to be honest. Linlin dying a noble death like that.


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## Ren. (Mar 7, 2020)

Sherlōck said:


> Akainu had a shot at WB's head then WB would have died then & there


Yes, mate, we are insecure that Akainu needed WB to be old, sick, impaled with a sword, needs to fight 3 Admirals, give Akainu a shot at killing him and Oda said na fam it takes 2 hits from WB after all of that to make Akainu one step away from next life.

Let me show you how Oda made this man die:


I seriously don't know what Oda can do to show the difference from  a PK level man and plebs:


Here is how someone that is PK looks after fighting 10 days vs an Admiral.

The dude with the magma fruit has burn marks and he is PK level then Aokiji is Also PK level.

And this is how someone that is PK looks like :

I sure can see Roger and Garp looking like that just after one hit of WB, I mean it is not like he faced WB for 3 days and he had no scratch:



In fact, there is no difference between how Roger vs WB and Akainu vs WB were shown ...


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## Yuji (Mar 7, 2020)

@Kinjin 
I don't care about rep but at least have the balls to respond to me in thread if you need to say something. 

What exactly was baiting? You took Luffy's words out of context, I showed that to you as well as the panel that Luffy plans to take out all 4 emperors and never once stated he wanted to take out the admirals. Also, you've been chasing after mistranslated panels, you should be thanking me for showing you that error.

Akainu doesn't even have Mihawk level portrayal who was Shanks' rival, let alone Garp overhype hype who contended with Roger and has the hero/legendary marine status. He doesn't even come close.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ezekjuninor (Mar 7, 2020)

Boi I can’t wait for EoS Sentoumaru to be PK level cause Luffy said he needs to surpass him. Oh let’s not forget Aokiji too who Akainu needed 10 days to defeat. 
I swear these are the same people that were saying “How do we know Kaido got stronger after fighting Oden”. When it was 20 years ago and Kaido was introduced as a character who’s constantly challenging himself and has a completely different build from what he had before.

But nope Akainu fights ice dude and is suddenly equal to prime Garp.


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## Kinjin (Mar 7, 2020)

Yuji said:


> @Kinjin
> I don't care about rep but at least have the balls to respond to me in thread if you need to say something.
> 
> What exactly was baiting? You took Luffy's words out of context, I showed that to you as well as the panel that Luffy plans to take out all 4 emperors and never once stated he wanted to take out the admirals. Also, you've been chasing after mistranslated panels, you should be thanking me for showing you that error.
> ...


Sorry, I can't take someone who thinks that a Yonko can defeat 3 Admirals at the same time seriously.

I'm pretty sure the panels I posted are accurate translations, but you got offended because I rated your post funny while rating Daisuke's post winner and now you keep tagging me in this stuff when I don't want to involve myself in this discussion anymore.

Luffy's words are your interpretation. It's crystal clear what he means by "if I don't beat each and every single one of you".

Reactions: Like 2


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## Yuji (Mar 7, 2020)

Kinjin said:


> I'm pretty sure the panels I posted are accurate translations, but you got offended because I rated your post funny while rating Daisuke's post winner and now you keep tagging me in this stuff when I don't want to involve myself in this discussion anymore.
> 
> Luffy's words are your interpretation. It's crystal clear what he means by "if I don't beat each and every single one of you".



If you don't want to involve yourself in the discussion then you don't have to respond, this is presumably a thread for people who want to talk.

Your misinterpretation simply doesn't stand up when you look at the context of Luffy's speech


''Who says I have to run?'' - you're right about one thing, it is crystal clear that he's talking about not running away because *he literally says it* a few panels earlier. If they stand in his way he won't run.

Because if you actually think, that Luffy plans on hunting Fujitora down and then Greenbull and then the rest until he's defeated every individual admiral 1v1... that's genuinely hilarious.


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## Kinjin (Mar 7, 2020)

Yuji said:


> Your misinterpretation simply doesn't stand up when you look at the context of Luffy's speech
> 
> 
> ''Who says I have to run?'' - you're right about one thing, it is crystal clear that he's talking about not running away because *he literally says it* a few panels earlier. If they stand in his way he won't run.


These are standalone statements. He ends the sentence with "...just because you're an Admiral?!". Afterwards he specifically states that he won't become PK if he doesn't *beat* *each and every single* *one of them*.



> Because if you actually think, that Luffy plans on hunting Fujitora down and then Greenbull and then the rest until he's defeated every individual admiral 1v1... that's genuinely hilarious.


Luffy won't do it because the Admirals are the ones who will chase him. That's their job. No pirate is stupid enough to hunt Marines down.

Reactions: Like 1


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## stealthblack (Mar 7, 2020)

Garp was prime luffy level, as in pk luffy. Will akainu be that? Only If he îs final villain but even then depends how easy luffy beats him.


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## Sherlōck (Mar 7, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Yes, mate, we are insecure that Akainu *needed*



Strong start. 



> WB to be old, sick,



It's not Akainu's fault that WB was born 20 years before him or that he was sick. He didn’t create a deadly virus that gave WB heart attack.       



> impaled with a sword,



Sengoku's plan was to create mistrust. Akainu didn’t tell Squardo to put a giant ass sword through WB's chest. 

It's not Akainu's fault that WBP didn’t trust "daddy" that much.



> needs to fight 3 Admirals



The fact that all 3 had the upper hand & yet walk away tells you more about Admirals.  

Moreover it tells you not to use shitty plot bs to cloud your judgement.  



> *give* Akainu a shot at killing him



WB is a pretty generous guy, isn't he? 

I mean Ace was ready to be executed, his "sons" were dying left and right yet he gave Akainu a shot at killing him. 

Truly a great human being.       



> and Oda said na fam it takes 2 hits from WB after all of that to make Akainu one step away from next life



Nah, Oda was like thank god I didn’t make Akainu melt WB's skull in the first time around. Otherwise I would have had to show total annihilation of WBP. 

Rest of your post is gibberish. Just cause you post a bunch of panel doesn’t mean it supports your argument. 

Akainu was scarred by Aokiji by fighting for 10 days. You have no idea when he got those scar. The simple fact is WB couldn’t give Akainu any scar. By shitty logic Aokiji > Akainu. But you are way too smart for that argument , aren’t you? 

PK level panel is taking half of WSM's head after being attacked from behind. And haki clash panel between WB & Roger? You post that like it’s supposed to prove something. The only thing it & PH proves that Oda hasn’t shown us the true power of top tiers. That's all.                  

Honestly, I didn’t want to reply. But you know what they say, "An idle brain is devils workshop". While I am entertained by your argument & debating skill, I am going to refrain myself from now on.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ezekjuninor (Mar 7, 2020)

Sherlōck said:


> Strong start.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This isn’t a rhetorical question or anything but who do you believe wins in a fair 1v1 MF WB or Akainu?


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## Steven (Mar 7, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> At this point, if it’s not harmless fun... people should be ban for this kind of behaviour.
> 
> I can’t even follow the joke.


Fun?

He needed 10 days to defeat Aokiji ergo they are equal

And yes,if you like it or not,Rob Luccis authority is way higher than Akainus

Being the FA means jackshit in the WG



Sherlōck said:


> Akainu was scarred by Aokiji by fighting for 10 days. You have no idea when he got those scar. The simple fact is WB couldn’t give Akainu any scar..


Quakes cannot inflict scars on you.WB´s quakes are shockwave´s and not a sword/gun or something like that


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## Beast (Mar 7, 2020)

Acno said:


> Fun?
> 
> He needed 10 days to defeat Aokiji ergo they are equal
> 
> ...


... okay. Akainu let him go and obviously you stop reading the manga way before haki was brought up to not understand that Akainu and to an extent Aokiji have both grown after their deadly fight.

Okay then... list us everything and anything Lucci can do. Go on tell us....
since we’ll be waiting for ever (unless you’re reading off your fanon) I’ll go ahead and ask another question, do you even know Lucci current position other then being in CP0?

Yes, go and further flaunt about your lack of any common sense. Who raised you to make you think that the fleet admiral and highest authority of one the 3 world powers means jack shit? 

I am truly shocked.


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## Sherlōck (Mar 7, 2020)

Ezekjuninor said:


> This isn’t a rhetorical question or anything but who do you believe wins in a fair 1v1 MF WB or Akainu?



Akainu.

WB was old, sick. His reaction time halved. In any confrontation between him against an Admiral was in favor of Admiral. In a prolonged fight WB's body wouldn't be able to handle the stress &  Akainu will eventually win. Same goes for any Admiral really. WB wasn’t the WSM in MF.

The only time we saw a glimpse of PrimeBeard was when he was angry as fuck after Ace died & attacked Akainu from behind.


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## Kylo Ren (Mar 8, 2020)

Prime Garp mid diff at best. 



Sherlōck said:


> Akainu.
> 
> WB was old, sick. His reaction time halved. In any confrontation between him against an Admiral was in favor of Admiral. In a prolonged fight WB's body wouldn't be able to handle the stress &  Akainu will eventually win. Same goes for any Admiral really. WB wasn’t the WSM in MF.
> 
> The only time we saw a glimpse of PrimeBeard was when he was angry as fuck after Ace died & attacked Akainu from behind.


OLD sick WB beat Akainu along with all the injury he received by Everyone. in 1v1 WB rekt him all over again. high diff at best. He is lucky WB fought everyone if he only fights Akainu it's going to be much easy for WB.


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## Sherlōck (Mar 8, 2020)

Kylo Ren said:


> OLD sick WB beat Akainu along with all the injury he received by Everyone. in 1v1 WB rekt him all over again. high diff at best. He is lucky WB fought everyone if he only fights Akainu it's going to be much easy for WB.



You mean when he attacked Akainu on the head from behind which if they swiched placed would mean immediate death for WB? Harping "two shot" means nothing when Akainu in WB's place would have "one shot" WB. Even after landing two devastating blow Akainu was up & running, fighting everyone & their mother.


I understand that you guys have trouble comprehending anything other than your fanon tier list. But before using big words like "two shot" or "defeat" I want you guys to think what you are typing & if that really makes sense in the broader view or not.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kylo Ren (Mar 8, 2020)

Sherlōck said:


> You mean when he attacked Akainu on the head from behind which if they swiched placed would mean immediate death for WB? Harping "two shot" means nothing when Akainu in WB's place would have "one shot" WB. Even after landing two devastating blow Akainu was up & running, fighting everyone & their mother.





Sherlōck said:


> I understand that you guys have trouble comprehending anything other than your fanon tier list. But before using big words like "two shot" or "defeat" I want you guys to think what you are typing & if that really makes sense in the broader view or not.


Rather than to what you're saying. Akainu with all the help he gets still couldn't defeat WB and you're saying a solo Akainu can?


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## Ren. (Mar 8, 2020)

Sherlōck said:


> Strong start.


Nice beef ..


Sherlōck said:


> It's not Akainu's fault that WB was born 20 years before him or that he was sick. He didn’t create a deadly virus that gave WB heart attack.


It is not an argument to say that Akainu is stronger because he can take shots because of a sickness so mute point!


Sherlōck said:


> Sengoku's plan was to create mistrust. Akainu didn’t tell Squardo to put a giant ass sword through WB's chest.
> 
> It's not Akainu's fault that WBP didn’t trust "daddy" that much.


Mute point again, reverse the situation and see if Akainu is even alive, it is not who did what but what state was WB and Akainu.


Sherlōck said:


> The fact that all 3 had the upper hand & yet walk away tells you more about Admirals.


Mute point again, put Akainu against BB, Kaido and BM, wound him like Wb and give him the sickness then put him to fight Prime WB and see if he survives 2m.

Mute point like all your points.


Sherlōck said:


> WB is a pretty generous guy, isn't he?
> 
> I mean Ace was ready to be executed, his "sons" were dying left and right yet he gave Akainu a shot at killing him.
> 
> Truly a great human being.


Did you have one great point in all this text?



Sherlōck said:


> Nah, Oda was like thank god I didn’t make Akainu melt WB's skull in the first time around. Otherwise I would have had to show total annihilation of WBP.



Yeh because oda did not make Akainu fall on the ground, stick to the panels not your what if's.


Sherlōck said:


> Rest of your post is gibberish. Just cause you post a bunch of panel doesn’t mean it supports your argument.


Your entire text is crap like always that is not an argument.



Sherlōck said:


> You have no idea when he got those scar.





Sherlōck said:


> *I understand that you guys have trouble comprehending anything* other than your fanon tier list. But before using big words like "two shot" or "defeat" I want you guys to think what you are typing & if that really makes sense in the broader view or not.


So you are the type of guy that when many disagree it is the fault of the majority and you are the source of truth.

I can do sophisms but you will never win because your speculation has no panel for Akainu.

By the way, this is how the anime portraited Akainu:

*Link Removed*


I am sorry to tell you this but both the anime and manga portraited Akainu as desperate and one hit away from death or at least defeat.




Sherlōck said:


> *I understand that you guys have trouble comprehending anything* other than your fanon tier list. B


And I don't want to hear that from someone that seen Prime Luffy as extreme diff for other current top tiers so spare us the condescending tone gent but do have a good day.
Yes BB gave him that scar, OMG.


Sherlōck said:


> The simple fact is WB couldn’t give Akainu any scar.


He almost killed him, if he did not fall and WB used bisento to the heart he was dead but plot saved him to fight Aokiji!


Sherlōck said:


> PK level panel is taking half of WSM's head after being attacked from behind. And haki clash panel between WB & Roger? You post that like it’s supposed to prove something. The only thing it & PH proves that Oda hasn’t shown us the true power of top tiers. That's all.
> 
> Honestly, I didn’t want to reply. But you know what they say, "An idle brain is devils workshop". While I am entertained by your argument & debating skill, I am going to refrain myself from now on.



I had enough you are a waste of my time.

Bye gent, next time bring some panels for your crap non-existent arguments. And start debating what I wrote not me and with panels please not your head canon.



Yuji said:


> What exactly was baiting? You took Luffy's words out of context,






Ezekjuninor said:


> I swear these are the same people that were saying “How do we know Kaido got stronger after fighting Oden”. When it was 20 years ago and Kaido was introduced as a character who’s constantly challenging himself and has a completely different build from what he had before.
> 
> But nope Akainu fights ice dude and is suddenly equal to prime Garp.


The answer is I am downplaying Akainu!



Kinjin said:


> Sorry, I can't take someone who thinks that a Yonko can defeat 3 Admirals at the same time seriously.
> 
> I'm pretty sure the panels I posted are accurate translations, but you got offended because I rated your post funny while rating Daisuke's post winner and now you keep tagging me in this stuff when I don't want to involve myself in this discussion anymore.
> 
> Luffy's words are your interpretation. It's crystal clear what he means by "if I don't beat each and every single one of you".


O FFS you begrudged him because he has an opinion like that?

No, they are not and those are statements, and you took them out of context for your precious narrative.

No, it is not what you think they are ... they do not state anything about Akainu, that is what you used them when debating me.


Kylo Ren said:


> Rather than to what you're saying. Akainu with all the help he gets still couldn't defeat WB and you're saying a solo Akainu ca


Akainu alone can defeat Prime WB it seams.

WB had to be almost 70, to have a heart problem, to be stabbed next to the heart, to be impaled by swords, bullets, and cannonballs, to be frozen, impaled by lasers and a chest wound to magma.

But Akainu has no problem defeating some that fought Roger for 3 days.

For those that see Akainu as PK level.

I have the following situation.

Akainu is impaled by Vista, is older by 15 years and has a heart problem, needs to fight Prime Garp, Roger and Prime WB then he gets impaled by sea bullets and sword, takes hits from Prime Garp for the freezing and lasers WB took then, He takes a full-powered hit from Prime WB.

If he does the same as WB did in this situation then Akainu is PK level






Kylo Ren said:


> Prime Garp mid diff at best.




*Spoiler*: __


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## Corax (Mar 8, 2020)

It is all irrelevant. In absolutely every shounen last arc villains and main heroes are vastly above legends of the past. Reason is quite simple. Because otherwise it would be boring to read. So the only way Akainu ends up a bit below prime Garp if he goes out of the story for good two or three arcs before the last. I can't see this happening (three for sure,two might but all depends on plot structure).


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## Ren. (Mar 8, 2020)

Corax said:


> It is all irrelevant. In absolutely every shounen last arc villains and main heroes are vastly above legends of the past. Reason is quite simple. Because otherwise it would be boring to read.


This is becoming cyclical reasoning and we are going in circles.

Last Arc enemy will be above BB yes but Akainu is and will never be that one, he never was put in that position by Oda that was what we are debating.


Corax said:


> So the only way Akainu ends up a bit below prime Garp if he goes out of the story for good two or three arcs before the last.


Akainu is insignificant to the last arc he has no connection to D, WG history and doesn't even know Im

Oda gives two shit about Akainu's PL but he sure cares about plot this is why he let WB do what he did in MF and Aokiji scar Akainu that way.

This is not how Oda portraits someone that will surpass Roger, WB and Garp.
BB and Im is how he does it.


Corax said:


> I can't see this happening (three for sure, two might but all depends on plot structure).


I can sure see him getting frustrated by Luffy and BB and faces either of them and gets destroyed well before Luffy faces BB.


So the same o same o.

You guys say that he is the final enemy after BB that surpassed anything with 2-3 DF but ignore Im because what?

Not enough exposition, nibaah, Akainu was the last Admiral to be shown and is MA in the story by a lot.

So until you guys have solid arguments to say why he is FE and above BB when we already have Im we are going nowhere and all the arguments come from the fanbase, Admirals vs Yonko and all top tiers are extreme diff crap that is not relevant to the plot.

For Akainu to be put at that level Oda needs to give him the same or above care that he did with BB and that will never happen.

Also to deflect that this is shonen and Oda will do as Naruto, Bleach, and DBZ is a no-no.

Let's see Enel can destroy anyone after him so that is not correct.

WB goes first and he was a formal PK level then goes Kaido that is above BM and the new Admirals and so on.

If Oda wanted to show us the cliche formula  A>B>C then he sure has failed.


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## Ezekjuninor (Mar 8, 2020)

Sherlōck said:


> Akainu.
> 
> WB was old, sick. His reaction time halved. In any confrontation between him against an Admiral was in favor of Admiral. In a prolonged fight WB's body wouldn't be able to handle the stress &  Akainu will eventually win. Same goes for any Admiral really. WB wasn’t the WSM in MF.
> 
> The only time we saw a glimpse of PrimeBeard was when he was angry as fuck after Ace died & attacked Akainu from behind.


Hmm I guess that's a fair assessment. I thought you would have MF WB>=Admirals but still somehow have Akainu near equals to Prime Garp which just wouldn't make sense imo. Personally I feel like WB was the "victor" against Akainu but MF was such a mess that most of the feats contradict. And without PIS logically basically any top tier could 1 shot WB during a heart attack.

I still don't agree with your assessment that Garp needs extreme diff to beat Akainu though and that every top tier is nigh equal but at least it's consistent.



Corax said:


> It is all irrelevant. In absolutely every shounen last arc villains and main heroes are vastly above legends of the past. Reason is quite simple. Because otherwise it would be boring to read. So the only way Akainu ends up a bit below prime Garp if he goes out of the story for good two or three arcs before the last. I can't see this happening (three for sure,two might but all depends on plot structure).


When will Luffy 1v1 Akainu? The only time span that makes sense is straight after the Wano arc which wouldn't really make Akainu anymore impressive unless Luffy beats Kaidou in a fair 1v1 which is extremely unlikely. Unless you believe Luffy will fight Akainu in a 1v1 after he's already defeated BB which just seems ridiculous. It's more likely that Akainu plays a lesser role and fights someone like Sabo or possibly Dragon.


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## Dunno (Mar 8, 2020)

If he Akainu ends up the leader of the WG, I could see him surpassing Garp. Otherwise, it's unlikely.


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## trance (Mar 8, 2020)

op anime is dogshit

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sherlōck (Mar 8, 2020)

@Ezekjuninor small tidbit though. I don't think MF Akainu was Prime Garp level. IMO he became Prime Garp level after beating Aokiji. Basically, Prime Garp ~ Current Akainu > MF Akainu >= MF Beard .

Reactions: Like 1


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## itsxtray (Mar 8, 2020)

Amol said:


> Garp of course.
> I see Akainu only being slightly stronger than rest of the admirals. He has no reason to be in PK level where Garp is. Only Luffy's main enemy needs to be there which is Blackbeard.
> I don't really even think that Akainu is Luffy's fight anymore. Either Dragon or Sabo is beating him. I would prefer Sabo beating him just to see meltdowns on forum. Though given how much Japanese like Inherited Will stuff it is highly likely than Sabo will beat him.


Yep, as soon as Sabo got the mera Akainu was destined to take that L from him. Oda already set up magu>mera, the theme of the fight will be about overcoming that. If Sabo woulda shown up with his own devil fruit or if someone else got the mera it'd be different, but the writings on the wall.


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## Ren. (Mar 8, 2020)

itsxtray said:


> Oda already set up magu>mera,


That is false, Sabo can have better COA and he would defeat Akainu with Mera+ martial arts + COA + Will.

If that was the case then Luffy who is inferior to anyone because his weak DF quoting Oda is one of the weakest in the series.

SBS 65
*D: In the ONE PIECE of these days, all kinds of strong ability users whom even Luffy can't compete with have been appearing, one after the other. In general manga and anime, I feel that the protagonist is established to be the strongest of all, but why did you decide to turn Luffy into a pretty weak-looking rubber Devil Fruit user? P.N. Do your best Japan*

O: Ahaha, that is true. It must seem like a mystery when you consider all the other strong and cool abilities.* The answer is simple. I have picked the most ridiculous ability. If the protagonist were the typical strong guy, I doubt I could continue on with this for long.* No matter how serious the story gets, Luffy is there to stretch and inflate. He always give me a chance to fool around. That's the kind of manga I wanted to write.





And this miles ahead vs Akainu goes from getting bodied by old WB in 2 hits to PK level because he defeated Aokiji ...


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## Turrin (Mar 8, 2020)

Ren. said:


> That is false, Sabo can have better COA and he would defeat Akainu with Mera+ martial arts + COA + Will.
> 
> If that was the case then Luffy who is inferior to anyone because his weak DF quoting Oda is one of the weakest in the series.
> 
> ...


The problem is Akainu also likely has advanced CoA. So if both have Advanced CoA and Akainu has the stronger DF the victor is obvious. 

The only way a mera use can beat Akainu is if Oda plays the card that when awakened Mera Fruit produces flames hotter then Lava; which is possible; but I don’t see that happening or being more likely then Luffy beating Akainu


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## Ren. (Mar 8, 2020)

Turrin said:


> The problem is Akainu also likely has advanced CoA. So if both have Advanced CoA and Akainu has the stronger DF the victor is obvious.


Luffy also has advance COA and his DF is way inferior to mera yet he will stomp Akainu in Prime.


Turrin said:


> The only way a mera use can beat Akainu is if Oda plays the card that when awakened Mera Fruit produces flames hotter then Lava;


Not when the MC has the weakest DF.

I already have shown what Oda said and Garp destroys AKainu with no DF so does Roger.

To say that Sabo was already using Advance COA will never defeat Akainu because has a logia is really laughable.


Turrin said:


> Mera Fruit produces flames hotter then Lava;


Flames, in general, are hotter than Lava. Oda can use COA to compress the flames as Luffy did with G4 and he can reach plasma level aka million of degree!


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## Turrin (Mar 8, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Luffy also has advance COA and his DF is way inferior to mera yet he will stomp Akainu in Prime.
> 
> Not when the MC has the weakest DF.


Luffy won’t be winning with just Ryo and his DF is ‘weaker’ but isn’t in a position of direct inferiority to Akainu like the Fire Fruit is.

Luffy will probably need another Technique and Gear/Gear form to beat Akainu. As I’ve speculated in another thread he will probably learn a defensive Technique and get Alligator/Crocodile Man; as his new form to win.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ren. (Mar 8, 2020)

Turrin said:


> Luffy won’t be winning with just Ryo and his DF is ‘weaker’ but isn’t in a position of direct inferiority to Akainu like the Fire Fruit is.
> 
> Luffy will probably need another Technique and Gear/Gear form to beat Akainu. As I’ve speculated in another thread he will probably learn a defensive Technique and get Alligator/Crocodile Man; as his new form to win.


Luffy will win with one of the weakest DF and with one of the strongest COA, COO and COC, scratch that, the strongest.

Sabo just needs a decent COO and stronger COA.



Turrin said:


> isn’t in a position of direct inferiority to Akainu like the Fire Fruit is.


What the heck are talking about?
Mera is superior to ruber.
magma is superior to mera.

Yet Garp can shit on magma like there is no tomorrow.

Here:


vs



Sabo was strong AF before the mera.

You are saying because he got the Mera he will always lose to Akainu becuase he has the magu 

Let me rephrase this for you.

If you switch Mera with Gomu at EOS Luffy will still defeat Akainu!



Turrin said:


> Luffy will probably need another Technique and Gear/Gear form to beat Akainu.


And ... it is still the ruber fruit!

G4 is a technic that combines COA with the DF so Sabo can do the same.


You are equating the performance of Mera to what only Ace could do!

I can bet with you a Prime Ace that matured could also trash Akainu who got trashed by that version of WB and he did for those that don't want to admit:
This is how Akainu looked after only 2 blunt fists now imagine taking some slashes from his bisento when in Prime:


I am getting the Admirals fanboys wrath so I am out.

Stop shitting on BB with this crap, please.


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## Kinjin (Mar 8, 2020)

This is the battledome. Unless stated otherwise in the OP we only go by the manga here. Please don't use any scene from the anime as an argument in a debate. @Ren.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Mar 8, 2020)

Kinjin said:


> This is the battledome. Unless stated otherwise in the OP we only go by the manga here. Please don't use any scene from the anime as an argument in a debate. @Ren.


Look first ... those are doubled by the same manga panel.



Ren. said:


> I am sorry to tell you this but both the anime and manga portraited Akainu as desperate and one hit away from death or at least defeat.



And for the above post, I stated that I wanted to show both the original and adaptation and both were not in favor of Akainu.

But thanks for the advice.

And I could also say that some should stop using his future fight that has 50% 50% to happen vs Luffy to put him above an already foreshadowed battle that is BB vs Luffy!

Furthermore, the chances dropped when Oda announced the importance of Joy boy that will trigger the final war and introduced the antagonist of the final war:

And it seems I am stepping in a turf war of Admirals vs Yonko and I don't care, just put some respect on BB! @Kinjin ,@TheWiggian, @MasterBeast

I am out!


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## Beast (Mar 8, 2020)

Bunch of words but no sense.


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## Corax (Mar 8, 2020)

Ezekjuninor said:


> When will Luffy 1v1 Akainu? The only time span that makes sense is straight after the Wano arc which wouldn't really make Akainu anymore impressive unless Luffy beats Kaidou in a fair 1v1 which is extremely unlikely. Unless you believe Luffy will fight Akainu in a 1v1 after he's already defeated BB which just seems ridiculous. It's more likely that Akainu plays a lesser role and fights someone like Sabo or possibly Dragon.


BB will be sorted out before Raftel because Luffy needs to discover Joy Boy's legacy before the last war (war that Oden spoke about). Marines are military branch of WG,no way WG will enter final war without them. The only thing that Akainu will not be the last opponent,but he will be fighting in last war (last arc).


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## itsxtray (Mar 8, 2020)

Ren. said:


> That is false, Sabo can have better COA and he would defeat Akainu with Mera+ martial arts + COA + Will.
> 
> If that was the case then Luffy who is inferior to anyone because his weak DF quoting Oda is one of the weakest in the series.
> 
> ...



Volume 79 sbs


*D: About the powers from the Dressrosa Arc that Doflamingo's officers have... are they pretty much just improved versions of the abilities that the Baroque Works members had (so like Ton Ton → Kilo Kilo, Beta Beta → Doru Doru, Buki Buki → Supa Supa, and Pamu Pamu → Bomu Bomu)?     from TaokaS43*

O: It's true that "superior" devil fruit abilities are a thing, but as of now, it's pretty much just these four pairs.
_
(Ton Ton > Kilo Kilo, 
Hie Hie > Yuki Yuki, _
_Magu Magu > Mera Mera, _
_Buki Buki > Supa Supa)_

Though there are other fruit pairs out there that might make you wonder _don't they pretty much do the same thing?_, these abilities tend to be headed in different directions in terms of how they actually work or what they can do. Also, a superior ability does not necessarily equate to the character's strength. No ability alone guarantees victory in combat.

Reactions: Like 1


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## itsxtray (Mar 8, 2020)

Ren. said:


> What is your point, Luffy has one of the weakest fruits, he will be stronger than Akainu.
> 
> Luffy with the mera will be still stronger than Akainu.
> 
> ...


Bro, I already said that Sabo was destined to beat Akainu as soon as he got the mera, what is YOUR point?

You quoted me saying "this is false" when I said that Oda set up that magu>mera which isn't false it's the truth. I said the theme of the Sabo/Akainu fight will be about Sabo OVERCOMING THAT. Read bro. We pretty much agree.


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## Ren. (Mar 8, 2020)

itsxtray said:


> Bro, I already said that Sabo was destined to beat Akainu as soon as he got the mera, what is YOUR point?
> 
> You quoted me saying "this is false" when I said that Oda set up that magu>mera which isn't false it's the truth. I said the theme of the Sabo/Akainu fight will be about Sabo OVERCOMING THAT. Read bro. We pretty much agree.


Sorry, I answered too many posts and...
At first, I thought you said that but I digress.

MY bad!


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## itsxtray (Mar 8, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Sorry, I answered too many posts and...
> At first, I thought you said that but I digress.
> 
> MY bad!


It's all good... just slow down a little bit.


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## Ezekjuninor (Mar 8, 2020)

Corax said:


> BB will be sorted out before Raftel because Luffy needs to discover Joy Boy's legacy before the last war (war that Oden spoke about). Marines are military branch of WG,no way WG will enter final war without them. The only thing that Akainu will not be the last opponent,but he will be fighting in last war (last arc).


That's my point though you honestly think Oda will make Luffy beat Akainu after beating Blackbeard? 
Luffy likely surpasses WB/Roger or reaches their level when he defeats Blackbeard. Do you honestly think Oda's going to make him have some extreme diff fight with Akainu after that like Akainu is some God tier foe? Luffy fighting Im/Gorosei while a side character like Sabo fights Akainu, and defeats him, beating the Mera<Magu barrier that Ace experienced is far more likely

Reactions: Like 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 8, 2020)

Ludi said:


> Depends on when Akainu will be the main antagonist, pre or post Teach. And also how relevant he is EoS.
> 
> Main antagonist LT Teach > Garp I think. If Akainu comes after and Akainu < Garp still then Luffy will loldiff him. If he comes before, what I hope, then he is most likey somewhere betweem admiral and primeWB/Prime Garp I suppose. Around Old WB level-ish.
> 
> Prime Roger >= PrimeWB >= Prime Garp > OldWB > sickWB >= MF admirals. Hopefully Akainu became at least stronger since.



Going with this

Reactions: Like 2


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## Kinjin (Mar 8, 2020)

Kinjin said:


> This is the battledome. Unless stated otherwise in the OP we only go by the manga here. Please don't use any scene from the anime as an argument in a debate. @Ren.


I'm curious, do you think it's ok to use feats and depiction from the anime? @Donquixote Doflamingo


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 8, 2020)

Kinjin said:


> I'm curious, do you think it's ok to use feats and depiction from the anime? @Donquixote Doflamingo



Manga>Interviews>Anime/Databooks>Novels/other secondary material.

I think all these are perfectly fine to use to support a arguement, as long as you don't try to put anything above the manga.

If the manga says Green Bull is stronger then Fujitora, but the Databook says they are equal the manga takes precedence, but using something from the Databook or the anime that you feel supports the notion that Green Bull>Fujitroa is perfectly fine.

Of course you as a individual as with anything,  can decide to take whatever a Databook or whatever says with a grain of salt, just as some people take things the manga says with a grain of salt(IE kaidou isnt actually the WSC). This Is a anime/manga fourm not a court of law. Out right dismissing the Anime or any secondary form of source material for that matter imo is silliness.

TLDR: People can make whatever arguements they want, if you don't think there evidence is valid then feel free to state as such, but saying they can't use X source material is silly imo. Me personally outside of the manga or personal interviews from oda I dont give a darn what other sources say, that's just me though. I still respect that people have differences on how much weight they put in secondary material.


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## Canute87 (Mar 9, 2020)

trance said:


> akainu doesnt have the strongest fruit



It's a pretty damn powerful fruit that competed against the gura.


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## Lurko (Mar 9, 2020)

Prime Garp. Idk but I got Garp for now.

Reactions: Like 1


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## trance (Mar 9, 2020)

Canute87 said:


> It's a pretty damn powerful fruit that competed against the gura.



its one of the strongest for sure (all the admirals' fruits should classify as such) but not *the *strongest


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## Luke (Mar 9, 2020)

I don't see what suggests Akainu can defeat the Hero of the Marines in his prime. He's a current Top 5 character in terms of strength, for sure, but that strong? Doubt it


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## Ren. (Mar 9, 2020)

Kinjin said:


> I'm curious, do you think it's ok to use feats and depiction from the anime? @Donquixote Doflamingo


I am curious, where did you get that or you just want to deflect the argument?

I put both depictions to show my point and as @Donquixote Doflamingo said their interpretation is above yours and mine if it is not in opposition with the manga.

And as I said before Akainu is not shown as some of you imply in good standing by both.


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## Flame (Mar 9, 2020)

Most people here won't take your arguments seriously if you use anime as the source so why use it in the first place?


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## Ren. (Mar 9, 2020)

Flame said:


> Most people here won't take your arguments seriously if you use anime as the source so why use it in the first place?


Most people would not take you seriously if you don't see that the panels were doubled by exact manga panel.
More information is not worse.
Just because Akainu was shown even worse in the anime is not my problem.

But I already saw that in this topic the Admiral fans came so the point of this thread is gone because I don't see it as a Y vs A but a BB vs Akainu and as my thread has shown BB defeats him with mid or high.

So the gets that came and started their Admiral campaign can have the thread and can tag the Yonko fans if they want, I am out!


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## Fel1x (Mar 9, 2020)

Akainu gonna fight against WG. mark my words


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## Flame (Mar 9, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Most people would not take you seriously if you don't see that the panels were doubled by exact manga panel.


Who's "most people"? You realize you're the only one here using anime as argument right?


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## Kinjin (Mar 9, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Manga>Interviews>Anime/Databooks>Novels/other secondary material.
> 
> I think all these are perfectly fine to use to support a arguement, as long as you don't try to put anything above the manga.
> 
> ...


Fair.

As you said nothing is above the manga. Unless stated otherwise we use the manga as the reference. Imagine if you found out that your opposite was talking about the anime version of a character the whole time. We can't have a serious discussion if we don't have the same source material in mind.

Anyway this is a discussion for another topic if you feel like continuing it.


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## Ren. (Mar 9, 2020)

Flame said:


> Who's "most people"? You realize you're the only one here using anime as argument right?


I am not using anime as arguments ... that was the point.
Read the complete sentence : 





Ren. said:


> if you don't see that the panels were doubled by exact manga panel.





Kinjin said:


> As you said nothing is above the manga.


Who are you arguing with?


Kinjin said:


> Unless stated otherwise we use the manga as the reference.


Mate there were several scenes that  I used and I stated that even the anime does not show Akainu in a good way then you started to stop using the anime when next time I used a close up from a panel in the manga and the anime panel ... 

Can you drop the subject?
You are deflecting the subject!


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## Kinjin (Mar 9, 2020)

Ren. said:


> I am not using anime as arguments ... that was the point.
> 
> Who are you arguing with?
> 
> ...


Did I quote you? I quoted DD.

Don't tell me to drop the subject when I precisely stated to drop it.


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## Ren. (Mar 9, 2020)

Kinjin said:


> Did I quote you? I quoted DD.
> 
> Don't tell me to drop the subject when I precisely stated to drop it.





Kinjin said:


> I'm curious, do you think it's ok to use feats and depiction from the anime? @Donquixote Doflamingo



You sure dropped it when after 3 posts you started at it again 



Ren. said:


> By the way, *this is how the anime* portraited Akainu:





Ren. said:


> I am sorry to tell you this but *both the anime and manga portraited Akainu as desperate* and one hit away from death or at least defeat.


@Kinjin  I was very clear in that part of my post!



Kinjin said:


> I'm curious, do you think it's ok to use feats and depiction from the anime?





Kinjin said:


> Please don't use any scene from the anime as an argument in a debate.



So your deflection was not needed because I did not use the anime as a crutch but as a bonus.


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## Turrin (Mar 9, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Luffy will win with one of the weakest DF and with one of the strongest COA, COO and COC, scratch that, the strongest.
> 
> Sabo just needs a decent COO and stronger COA.
> 
> ...


Cool; it’s still the Rubber Fruit still isn’t directly inferior to the Mera Fruit; not matter how much you insist it is. And Yes Sabo could perhaps win with better Haki; but he’s not winning with Ryo Technique is my point.


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## Ren. (Mar 9, 2020)

Turrin said:


> Cool; it’s still the Rubber Fruit still isn’t directly inferior to the Mera Fruit; not matter how much you insist it is. And Yes Sabo could perhaps win with better Haki; but he’s not winning with Ryo Technique is my point.


Logia per se are superior to any fruit not named Gura from the parmacia as default!

So there is no point or we are debating other points.

Rubber fruit if we take it as rubber should be weak again flames and even there you were wrong.

You are actually agreeing to me, I only said that just because sabo uses  Mera does not mean he will always lose against Akainu when in fact he was a advance COA user and a martial arts one, per cannon Sabo has glimpse of higher COA vs Akainu that has shown only barrier and Ryo is haki stop using the wano terms because it is like mantra same thing.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 9, 2020)

anime is non-canon

also shitty

Reactions: Like 3


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## Ludi (Mar 9, 2020)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> anime is non-canon
> 
> also shitty


And slow 

Im not sure if all logia > all other fruits. Some others seem really usefull to in "combat". Like BM, Law or Barho bruit. Just different.


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## Turrin (Mar 9, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Logia per se are superior to any fruit not named Gura from the parmacia as default!
> 
> So there is no point or we are debating other points.
> 
> ...


There is being a better fruit; and then their a relationship of direct inferiority; the former is what your talking about, but the latter is the relationship of the Mera and Magama Fruits 

Sabo ha shown Ryo; what I disagree with is that Sabo can beat Akainu with what he’d shown and CoO; if he has other Haki Technoques then maybe


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## Ren. (Mar 9, 2020)

Turrin said:


> Sabo ha shown Ryo; what I disagree with is that Sabo can beat Akainu with what he’d shown and CoO; if he has other Haki Technoques then maybe


I am talking about Prime Sabo with awakened Mera + better COA than AKainu.
Oda will not do the same thing as he did with Ace, he never repeats the same thing again.


Turrin said:


> There is being a better fruit; and then their a relationship of direct inferiority;


Then you need to prove that a direct inferiority furit like Mera is wekear then one of the weakest fruit in the series gomu vs magu.
My bet is that rubber is weaker against magma than mera with the argument that it is one of the weakest per default!

O: Ahaha, that is true. It must seem like a mystery when you consider all the other strong and cool abilities.* The answer is simple. I have picked the most ridiculous ability. If the protagonist were the typical strong guy, I doubt I could continue on with this for long.* No matter how serious the story gets, Luffy is there to stretch and inflate. He always give me a chance to fool around. That's the kind of manga I wanted to write.


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## Steven (Mar 9, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> ... okay. Akainu let him go and obviously you stop reading the manga way before haki was brought up to not understand that Akainu and to an extent Aokiji have both grown after their deadly fight.
> 
> Okay then... list us everything and anything Lucci can do. Go on tell us....
> since we’ll be waiting for ever (unless you’re reading off your fanon) I’ll go ahead and ask another question, do you even know Lucci current position other then being in CP0?
> ...


A FA shuts his mouth.IM,the Gorosei,the CD´s and the CP0 shits on him


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## Ren. (Mar 9, 2020)

Acno said:


> A FA shuts his mouth.IM,the Gorosei,the CD´s and the CP0 shits on him


 






And I don't need anime for this!


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## Steven (Mar 9, 2020)

Ren. said:


> And I don't need anime for this!



This gif says more than 1000 words


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## Ren. (Mar 9, 2020)

Acno said:


> This gif says more than 1000 words


Carefully, that is animated, some might interpret it that it is not the official manga 
When we talked about power we can't use MF because that is not him all out.


But his FA that means shit to the WG is what makes him above a regular Admiral!

Now we fan fiction his ass to above BB because he represents the WG, where the fuck did Oda ever made an FA represents the WG and when did Luffy ever give a shit about the Marines?


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## Turrin (Mar 9, 2020)

Ren. said:


> I am talking about Prime Sabo with awakened Mera + better COA than AKainu.
> Oda will not do the same thing as he did with Ace, he never repeats the same thing again.
> 
> Then you need to prove that a direct inferiority furit like Mera is wekear then one of the weakest fruit in the series gomu vs magu.
> ...


If your talking Prime Sabo that’s fine; who knows what powers he will have.


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## trance (Mar 9, 2020)

strongest fruit is the yami yami

awakened yami yami when oda?


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## Ren. (Mar 9, 2020)

Turrin said:


> If your talking Prime Sabo that’s fine; who knows what powers he will have.


Of course, we are talking about that Sabo, current Sabo and Luffy are scrubs to Akainu!


trance said:


> strongest fruit is the yami yami
> 
> awakened yami yami when oda?


The funny thing is that Akainu is one of the strongest players because of his logia.

But if I say that BB has the strongest logica, parmacia.

Akainu wins

Reactions: Like 2


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## Yuji (Mar 9, 2020)



Reactions: Like 1


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## Seraphoenix (Mar 9, 2020)

This thread is hilarious.

Garp wins. This is the battle dome where people supposedly are supposed to use feats. Yet all I see is some weak EoS Akainu fanfics based on Luffy mentioning him one time when brought up by Jimbe. 

Garp fighting Rocks and nearly killing Roger shits on anything Akainu has ever done. By far. 

Feats > fanfics

Reactions: Like 6


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## Gianfi (Mar 9, 2020)

Garp high diff

Reactions: Like 2


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## CaptainCommander (Mar 9, 2020)

Doesn't EOS technically qualify as a featless character??

@Soca


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## Deleted member 58423 (Mar 11, 2020)

akainu slays

edit: lots of garp stans here. bring on the hate!

Reactions: Like 1


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## trance (Mar 11, 2020)

girafarig said:


> akainu slays
> 
> edit: lots of garp stans here. bring on the hate!


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## Gledania (Mar 11, 2020)

I thought girafarig was a garp stan too


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## Deleted member 58423 (Mar 11, 2020)

Gledania said:


> I thought girafarig was a garp stan too



i can't stand the geezer. he's an overrated pos and i consider his laissez-faire attitude towards ace's execution nothing but TREASON against luffy.

this means, of course, that he cannot be strong - nor can he receive recognition for anything.


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## Gledania (Mar 11, 2020)

girafarig said:


> i can't stand the geezer. he's an overrated pos and i consider his laissez-faire attitude towards ace's execution nothing but TREASON against luffy.



Exept he had every reason to NOT help luffy at the moment...


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## Deleted member 58423 (Mar 11, 2020)

Gledania said:


> Exept he had every reason to NOT help luffy at the moment...



it was his duty as luffy's family to save ace - the person that was closest to luffy's heart. it was his duty as roger's 'friend' (though with friends like this...) to save his son. and most importantly, it was his duty as a human being to try to save an innocent young man from being murdered by a corrupt, evil government. that's how i see the situation.

would you care to list those 'every reason' you mentioned? though it would be off topic, i guess


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## Beast (Mar 11, 2020)

It’s like they wear the Bepo avi once and lose their shit.


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## Deleted member 58423 (Mar 11, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> It’s like they wear the Bepo avi once and lose their shit.



i haven't lost anything.

edit: neither has gled, afaik


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## Gledania (Mar 11, 2020)

girafarig said:


> it was his duty as luffy's family to save ace - the person that was closest to luffy's heart. it was his duty as roger's 'friend' (though with friends like this...) to save his son. and most importantly, it was his duty as a human being to try to save an innocent young man from being murdered by a corrupt, evil government. that's how i see the situation.
> 
> would you care to list those 'every reason' you mentioned? though it would be off topic, i guess


It was his duty as a marine to follow the marine code.
His son , Ace , became a pirate. Being a pirate make you an ennemy to the marines and lead you to war. No matter how harsh it may sound , his men are dying one by one to prevent WB to take Ace back. As a MARINE , he will not spit on the whole organisation and free a pirate because muh familly. Once you are warned that being a pirate leads to such fate, there is no excuse.
Morever , garp is the hero of the marine. Betraying the marine would be the worse symbolical thing he could do right now because their Hero , their greatest legend is siding with pirates ... He will bring shame on his students , his brothers in arms ,and the whole navy face, and all the men who died to do their duty. You believe someone can betray his organisation because of familly ? If you were a policeman would you free a criminal because he's your son ?

No ... Family tie don't prevail duty. It's basic knowledge. Piracy got it's price , once you are captured there is nothing to do. He warned them.


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## Flame (Mar 12, 2020)

Why is Gled having a discussion with himself?


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## Luis209 (Mar 12, 2020)

Garp has Luffy's blood. He will be really hard to put down. I'm leaning towards Marine's hero here. Extreme difficulty battle as Akainu have also a lot of hype and has a fearsome devil fruit.


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

Luis209 said:


> Garp has Luffy's blood. He will be really hard to put down. I'm leaning towards Marine's hero here. Extreme difficulty battle as Akainu have also a lot of hype and has a fearsome devil fruit.


You should have at most high diff, Akainu is never ever reaching Extreme diff, his DF means shit when Marco was taking it but not old Garp's COA fists.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Steven (Mar 14, 2020)

Akainu had massiv luck against WB with his plotarmor.


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## Luis209 (Mar 14, 2020)

Ren. said:


> You should have at most high diff, Akainu is never ever reaching Extreme diff, his DF means shit when Marco was taking it but not old Garp's COA fists.


The thing is that Marco have a devil fruit made for that. He can lose an eye, an arm and take some hits from Akainu that he will always regenerate. However, in this battle I envision that Garp would take some hits and that would put him in a very bad state.


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## Ren. (Mar 14, 2020)

Luis209 said:


> The thing is that Marco have a devil fruit made for that. He can lose an eye, an arm and take some hits from Akainu that he will always regenerate. However, in this battle I envision that Garp would take some hits and that would put him in a very bad state.


 

Garp does not need magma to overcome Marco.


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## CaptainCommander (Mar 14, 2020)

^Magma is a top tier of fruits

But is it a top tier power ???


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## Dragon D Xebec (Mar 14, 2020)

Prime Garp should win. Old Garp=old WB imo but Garp is not sick which put Old Garp>Old WB.

Prime WB is stronger and clashed with Roger multiple times.

Prime Garp high diffs.

Old Garp extreme diffs imo.


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## Nox (Mar 19, 2020)

You need to stop slandering my name to get Platinum Threads.  Not once have I claimed EoS Akainu > Prime Garp. I've stated and continue to stand by




Astro said:


> People value characters in their vacuum. Two characters being close in their prime, isn't indicative of their rate at which they decline. Observe the lengths at which the mangaka undertook to praise Old WB. No such reverence was given to Old Garp. Time and again praise is lauded to his younger and prime version. Old WB was in perfect sync with Roger. Possessed a powerful offensive power and Supreme Grade Weapon to boot. As praiseworthy as wounding Marco is, we're not going to pretend Haki's capability to overcome DF advantages supersedes DF based interaction. Furthermore, in this manga Old Garp is complaining at his decline strength. A theme which was common against his peers who stated they no longer had the stamina or physical constitution of their younger selves. To the point it serves as plot point that lead to their retirements. What is so embarrassing about Admiral/Emperor > Old Timers > 1st Commanders? *Akainu and Kuzan would wash Old Garp and I stand by that.*





Astro said:


> WB proclaims a disastrous war will proceed after OP is found. Mentions the quality of man Roger is waiting for. Thus, a Raftel arrival and claiming legitimizes a pirate as PK. Why would BB be fighting EOS? Does defeating PK after failing to reach/on Raftel count? IMO EOS = challenging the existing status quo. Revealing hidden truths, toppling their tyranny and carrying the plight of the world. The unmasking of the real perpetrators. TF is Teach purpose? Can someone please paint a scenario for why Teach would be relevant then?
> 
> As for OP — *Both Luffy and Sabo fight him. FA Akainu and Admirals will be in Mary Geioa. Luffy fights him then switches with Sabo*. Especially once he learns a bigger bad exists. *If Sabo is fighting Lucci, he will break him. Get beat by two brothers across two timeline pussy cat brehs.*





Astro said:


> *Pre TS*; Akainu >= Aoikiji > Kizaru >= Garp > Sengoku
> *Post T*S; Akainu > Kuzan > Greenbull >= Kizaru >= Fujitora > Garp > Sengoku





Astro said:


> *How strong is current Akainu?* Top 3 strongest Humans.
> *Did he get stronger since his fight with Aokiji?* There's canon confirmation Haki grows in perpetuity. However, this is dependent on the physical condition not deteriorating. Furthermore, Rayleigh informed us CoA and CoO grow in battle and training. Kuzan and Sakazuki are the only characters to have fought 2 Top Tiers.
> *How would a second fight between Aokiji and Akainu go?* Their first battle was 2018 Warriors vs 2018 Rockets. Their second match will be 2018 Warriors vs 2018 Cavaliers.
> *Is Akainu Final Villian worthy your opinion?* Yes. Back when Oda was wasting panel time and hand't told us OP was 3/4 through, *I had hoped this would happen*. On account of WB's statement, when he claimed a man Roger was waiting for. Teach is Luffy's foil and there is a battle of desires/ideals between them. Both are romantics but there's an anarchist undertone to Teach. Rayleigh mentioned that upon arriving on Raftel everyone reaches their own truth. Its always made me question Buggy's disinterest in OP and Shank's concern in maintain global peace. Perhaps, things are not clear cut. Teach could represent a man who desires to dominate and subjugate. Wheras, Luffy's desire for freedom extends to others. *However, at its core the main villain isn't Teach its the WG. About the mindset they posssess. If so, nobody is more dogmatic in their ways as Sakazuki*. He's got a black and white view and could be their main champion. Add the emotional connections he has with Luffy (via Ace). And the thematic symbols Monkey vs Dog. *Only one thing casts this battle in doubt for me, how strong Sakazuki is compared to a PK tier. << Because of this, I'd rather see a MF type battle but more intense. Where Admirals cycle through Luffy. *






​


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## Dunno (Mar 20, 2020)

Astro said:


> You need to stop slandering my name to get Platinum Threads.  Not once have I claimed EoS Akainu > Prime Garp. I've stated and continue to stand by
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You really have no right to complain when people misunderstand your posts.


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