# G4 Luffy vs Jozu



## Gibbs (May 4, 2015)

Permanent Gear 4 Luffy takes on Jozu

Location: Alabasta
Intel: Manga
Prep: None


Who wins?


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 4, 2015)

Jozu outlasts G4 luffy.

Then in his weakened state beats him into paste.


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## Yuki (May 4, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Jozu outlasts G4 luffy.
> 
> Then in his weakened state beats him into paste.



Since when is it fact G4 has a time limit.


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## Captain Altintop (May 4, 2015)

Jozu seems to have greater brute strength with his DF. 
His defense should be also more difficult to be broken compared to DD unless
Luffy can overwhelm Jozu's defensive Haki to bypass his Diamond protection.

In a fair fight, G4 Luffy would push DD to high ( high ) difficulty and Jozu to high ( mid ) difficulty 
because Jozu is the physical counterpart and better matchup than DD.


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## Gibbs (May 4, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Jozu outlasts G4 luffy.
> 
> Then in his weakened state beats him into paste.





Juvia. said:


> Since when is it fact G4 has a time limit.



I guess you both overlooked the first word in the OP


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 4, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> Since when is it fact G4 has a time limit.



Around the time i stated it as such.


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## ShadoLord (May 4, 2015)

Jozu thoroughly crushes Luffy, he has the greater strength and speed, along with CoA.


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## Shiny (May 4, 2015)

ill give the benefit of doubt to jozu because of his hype


but his iceberg feat is fucking overrated,that thing is just bigger than some not so huge giants


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## Turrin (May 4, 2015)

Jozu has much greater brute strength and defense. He also kept up with Admirals so he's got to be quick enough to not be blitz'd by G4-Luffy. In the end Jozu should be able to put up a good fight against G4-Luffy, if not outright win, but even if he can't, Luffy eventually he runs out of steam and looses for that reason for sure. Luffy isn't at Jozu's "level" yet.



Shiny said:


> but his iceberg feat is fucking overrated,that thing is just bigger than some not so huge giants


What lol. The thing towered of those giants:


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## MYJC (May 4, 2015)

Jozu wins with very high diff.


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## Jossaff (May 4, 2015)

Not sure about this one , Jozu probably takes it with High(High) diff


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## Bohemian Knight (May 4, 2015)

Jozu still takes it with solid high diff. His combinations of strength/speed and CoA/Diamond D are too much for Luffy


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## Yuki (May 4, 2015)

Turrin said:


> Jozu has much greater brute strength and defense. He also kept up with Admirals so he's got to be quick enough to not be blitz'd by G4-Luffy. In the end Jozu should be able to put up a good fight against G4-Luffy, if not outright win, but even if he can't, Luffy eventually he runs out of steam and looses for that reason for sure. Luffy isn't at Jozu's "level" yet.



The first time he is seen on panel after his cheap shot on Kuzan is him getting oneshot. 



Lord Wave said:


> Jozu thoroughly crushes Luffy, he has the greater strength and speed, along with CoA.



He is not faster.


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## Tenma (May 4, 2015)

Jozy very high diff.

Literally no reason to put Jozu over DD besides 'he fought on par with an admiral for a while admirals are the unbeatable gods of the OPverse who would solo the SHs, Supernovas and DD family with mid diff'.


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## Deleted member 211714 (May 5, 2015)

Of course Jozu is going to win.
He can fight on the same level as admirals and merely lost against an attack that bypasses his durability - with a distraction, at that - and Luffy doesn't have such an ability in his arsenal. Bar speed, Jozu still outclasses Luffy in every department.

Due to G4 being unlimited in this scenario, I'll give the victory to Jozu with mid-high difficulty at the very most.


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## Green Monkey (May 5, 2015)

Permanent G4 Luffy would shit on Jozu magnificently.  

Every
Whitebeard
Commander
Except
Ace
is
Massively
over
rated.

If you did actual Luffy it might be a contest. Someone who is shitting on DD like it's nothing is not going to have any issues with Jozu. G2/G3 Luffy probably isn't hurting Jozu just like he's not hurting DD, but if he's in G4 the entire time he will just shit on Jozu endlessly. He's faster, stronger, and has way more attack range than Jozu.

Never before have characters done less in a manga than the whitebeard commanders and had such a steady wank. All they did was not get raped in a war where mid tiers weren't getting raped by top tiers and yet somehow they are viewed as if they dominated the war.


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## Yuki (May 5, 2015)

King Itachi said:


> Of course Jozu is going to win.
> He can fight on the same level as admirals and merely lost against an attack that bypasses his durability - with a distraction, at that - and Luffy doesn't have such an ability in his arsenal. Bar speed, Jozu still outclasses Luffy in every department.
> 
> Due to G4 being unlimited in this scenario, I'll give the victory to Jozu with mid-high difficulty at the very most.



He turned his head about 30 degrees and still knew fine well the admiral was there.

It's not like Marco where he turned and ran. He merely turned his head a little bit and got oneshot.

That is not fighting on par with an admiral.

Fking Zoro did better than that.


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## Deleted member 211714 (May 5, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> He turned his head about 30 degrees and still knew fine well the admiral was there.
> 
> It's not like Marco where he turned and ran. He merely turned his head a little bit and got oneshot.
> 
> That is not fighting on par with an admiral.



He turned his head while fighting someone who is perhaps one of the worst match-ups against his defense - all the while being shocked from his comrade going down - so it's not like Kuzan can actually one-shot Jozu under normal circumstances. There's no indication that Jozu was losing up until that point, where Aokiji's ability completely bypassed his defense. If Aokiji could have easily defeated Jozu, the fight wouldn't have escalated to such a point.



> Fking Zoro did better than that.



Last I checked, Zoro got effortlessly destroyed by an admiral, and he even had his entire focus on Fujitora.


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## Yuki (May 5, 2015)

King Itachi said:


> He turned his head while fighting someone who is perhaps one of the worst match-ups against his defense - all the while being shocked from his comrade going down - so it's not like Kuzan can actually one-shot Jozu under normal circumstances. There's no indication that Jozu was losing up until that point, where Aokiji's ability completely bypassed his defense. If Aokiji could have easily defeated Jozu, the fight wouldn't have escalated to such a point.
> 
> 
> 
> Last I checked, Zoro got effortlessly destroyed by an admiral, and he even had his entire focus on Fujitora.



Last time i checked, it was only a couple panels after he sneak attacked Kuzan that he got oneshot. I don't remember any kind of fight escalating. 

Last time i checked, Zoro did not get oneshot and clashed with an admiral twice and came out of it just fine.


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## Elite Uchiha (May 5, 2015)

Luffy wins with extreme difficulty.


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## Deleted member 211714 (May 5, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> Last time i checked, it was only a couple panels after he sneak attacked Kuzan that he got oneshot. I don't remember any kind of fight escalating.



It wasn't a couple of panels; the instances were a chapter apart. There's no way to determine how long that sequence was, either. And the chain reaction brought down Jozu. Even though a hit from Jozu is capable of damaging Kuzan, a single one isn't going to put him in life-threatening state; however, Aokiji's ice completely bypasses Jozu's diamond, which gives him an indefinite advantage in a fight where focus isn't guaranteed. Powerscaling indicates that Jozu can push admiral-level opponents to high-diff on average. I just don't think his fruit is effective against the likes of Aokiji, though he'd perform better against the other admirals. Even Fuji would get one-shotted by Aokiji's deep freeze, assuming he wasn't focusing on the battle.

If Jozu was so weak as you're making it seem, Oda wouldn't have emphasized that a distraction was needed to take him out of the fight. Whether you like it or not, neither of them had the advantage until that point in time.



> Last time i checked, Zoro did not get oneshot and clashed with an admiral twice and came out of it just fine.



Zoro had his entire focus on Fujitora and still didn't stand a chance. Fuji didn't even follow up with an attack to subdue him.

Aokiji and Fujitora have different movesets, too.


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## Yuki (May 5, 2015)

King Itachi said:


> It wasn't a couple of panels; the instances were a chapter apart. There's no way to determine how long that sequence was, either. And the chain reaction brought down Jozu. Even though a hit from Jozu is capable of damaging Kuzan, a single one isn't going to put him in life-threatening state; however, Aokiji's ice completely bypasses Jozu's diamond, which gives him an indefinite advantage in a fight where focus isn't guaranteed. Powerscaling indicates that Jozu can push admiral-level opponents to high-diff on average. I just don't think his fruit is effective against the likes of Aokiji, though he'd perform better against the other admirals. Even Fuji would get one-shotted by Aokiji's deep freeze, assuming he wasn't focusing on the battle.
> 
> If Jozu was so weak as you're making it seem, Oda wouldn't have emphasized that a distraction was needed to take him out of the fight. Whether you like it or not, neither of them had the advantage until that point in time.
> 
> ...



Ffs... if all it takes is an instant distraction where you turn your head not even enough to get the admiral out of your sight for you to get oneshot by said admiral you ARE NOT FIGHTING ON PAR WITH AN ADMIRAL...

Fighting on par with an admiral is taking an attack and dishing out an attack on a similar level. Something Marco did. The only attack we see Kuzan delver is the one shot, before that time we have no proof that Kuzan even fking attacked him before it.


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## Chrollo Lucilfer (May 5, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> Ffs... if all it takes is an instant distraction where you turn your head not even enough to get the admiral out of your sight for you to get oneshot by said admiral you ARE NOT FIGHTING ON PAR WITH AN ADMIRAL...



Any Yonkou/Admiral who gets distracted while fighting another Yonkou/Admiral gets 1shot. Especially if the opponent has a lethal weapon/DF


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## Deleted member 211714 (May 5, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> Ffs... if all it takes is an instant distraction where you turn your head not even enough to get the admiral out of your sight for you to get oneshot by said admiral you ARE NOT FIGHTING ON PAR WITH AN ADMIRAL...



No different from Whitebeard losing all focus from that heart attack and getting a magma fist in his chest...


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## Yuki (May 5, 2015)

Chrollo Lucilfer said:


> Any Yonkou/Admiral who gets distracted while fighting another Yonkou/Admiral gets 1shot. Especially if the opponent has a lethal weapon/DF



WB didn't get oneshot and he was having a fking heart attack. That's far worse than turning your head a little.

Marco also didn't get oneshot and he was running away.

DD didn't get oneshot and he was trying to kill someone else while not even looking at Kuzan. 



King Itachi said:


> No different from Whitebeard losing all focus from that heart attack and getting a magma fist in his chest...



Oh but of course, because having a fking heart attack and falling to your knee's is on the same level was turning your head a tiny little bit while in a fighting stance.


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## Deleted member 211714 (May 5, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> Oh but of course, because having a fking heart attack and falling to your knee's is on the same level was turning your head a tiny little bit while in a fighting stance.



Equality isn't necessary to fight on par with someone. 
The admirals defeat Jozu 10/10 times, but he's still capable of damaging them and forcing powerful attacks from their arsenal; the fight wouldn't be easy by any means. 
If Marco got blindsided by Aokiji and hit with the deep freeze, he'd be in the same boat as Jozu.

Hax is what makes Aokiji stand out in that situation.


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## Yuki (May 5, 2015)

King Itachi said:


> Equality isn't necessary to fight on par with someone.
> The admirals defeat Jozu 10/10 times, but he's still capable of damaging them and forcing powerful attacks from their arsenal; the fight wouldn't be easy by any means.
> If Marco got blindsided by Aokiji and hit with the deep freeze, he'd be in the same boat as Jozu.
> 
> Hax is what makes Aokiji stand out in that situation.



Jozu wasn't blindsided.

DD was, and he got out just fine.

Fking hell this is just as bad as people saying DD blindsided Jozu when he was standing directly in front of him the entire time.


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## Deleted member 211714 (May 5, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> Jozu wasn't blindsided.



I'm pretty sure he was blindsided; his focus was disrupted. 
When someone close to you goes down - as we had seen on panel - the individual's focus is broken, only to get put in the disadvantageous situation. 
Jozu was simply unprepared for the attack, seeing his friend go down like that.



> DD was, and he got out just fine.



Here's what I think about that scene:
Either the attack from Kuzan wasn't the same or Conquerer's Haki can break through deep freeze.

Both scenarios are plausible, but it's impossible to tell. If I had to choose, Conquerer's Haki can likely shatter the ice, which Jozu doesn't seem to have.



> Fking hell this is just as bad as people saying DD blindsided Jozu when he was standing directly in front of him the entire time.



Are you okay?


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## Yuki (May 5, 2015)

Whatever think what you like.

But know this.

At the time skip Oda said we were 50% of the way through the story, but a couple months ago he said we are currently 70% of the way through, meaning we are already 40% into the New World. It's been 4 arcs since then, so if we work it out, that makes a grant total of 6 arcs left. Wano and Kaido are likely connected, another arc and Big Mom will be connected, at this time Shanks would have likely lost to BB so after that only Raftle is left, after that the final war arc. 

A yonko is just about 2 arcs away. If you don't see Luffy and Zoro doing at least what Jozu did to an admiral at this point then you're going to be extremely disappointed and butthurt all while i'll be saying that i told you so like i always bloody have to.


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## Finalbeta (May 5, 2015)

Jozu couldn't break Kiji's ice while Doffy could, but my feeling is that luffy is not yet quite on par with doffy at 100%

Luffy and Jozu should be similar in strenght


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## Shikamaru (howtroublesome) (May 5, 2015)

Chrollo Lucilfer said:


> Any Yonkou/Admiral who gets distracted while fighting another Yonkou/Admiral gets 1shot. Especially if the opponent has a lethal weapon/DF



Nope. All of the C3 admirals have lethal DFs and theyre not oneshotting each other. 

WB didn't get one-shotted. Jozu just isn't up to par with the admirals, hell he's weaker than Doffy so idk how this is even a debate. Anybody who doesn't see that is straight up in denial. 

As for this fight im not sure if G4 Luffy is at a level yet where he could take on a healthy Doffy or Jozu.


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## Bohemian Knight (May 5, 2015)

Finalbeta said:


> *Jozu couldn't break Kiji's ice while Doffy could*, but my feeling is that luffy is not yet quite on par with doffy at 100%
> 
> Luffy and Jozu should be similar in strenght



Different attacks. One was a deep freeze on contact, the other seemed to be more of a ice coat. I suspect that Doffy used CoC to break the ice so that means that it's not a valid comparison; it just says that Doffy is better suited for that situation


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## Ajin (May 5, 2015)

Bohemian Knight said:
			
		

> Different attacks. One was a deep freeze on contact, the other seemed to be more of a ice coat. I suspect that Doffy used CoC to break the ice so that means that it's not a valid comparison; it just says that Doffy is better suited for that situation



Bullshit. It is just one of many excuses to make Jozu looks better that he actually was. Both were frozen, Doflamingo broke the ice and left on his own, Jozu needed to be rescued and lost an arm. 




*Spoiler*: __ 








And why the fuck do you say about CoC? It is so hard to accept that Doflamingo have better CoA than Jozu, so you make a theories? We have absolutely no reasons to think it was CoC (Jozu wanking / Doflamingo underrating aside), but we have plenty to think it was CoA, period.  

And back to topic, Luffy win, because diamond is not gonna be helpful against blunt attacks, and Luffy is much faster, more agile, versatile and have better strength and haki feats.


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## Yuki (May 5, 2015)

Bohemian Knight said:


> Different attacks. One was a deep freeze on contact, the other seemed to be more of a ice coat. *I suspect that Doffy used CoC to break the ice so that means that it's not a valid comparison*; it just says that Doffy is better suited for that situation



Oh, you "suspect" so it is fact that we cannot use DD as a comparison because of your "suspecting".

FK you, you're going by an assumption and that does not sit with the BD and cannot be used in general debates where other peoples opinions are involved. 

WB also got frozen the same way that DD did and got out of it while Kuzan said it was because of his quake fruit not because he had CoC.

Until it's proven as a factor keep your assumption as your opinion and don't ever say "It's not a valid comparison because of my assumption."


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## Bohemian Knight (May 5, 2015)

Once again, a different attack altogether in regard to ice ball used on WB. Do all of Kuzan's attacks have the same potency and effect? Doubtful^

Doflamingo had a pretty quick change of heart about killing Smoker once he realized Kuzan would handle him with ease. Doflamingo underestimation? How did he look in front of Fuji? I don't need to misconstrue facts to make Doffy look comletely inferior to the Admirals. He does that himself every chance he gets


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## Yuki (May 5, 2015)

Bohemian Knight said:


> Once again, a different attack altogether in regard to ice ball used on WB. Do all of Kuzan's attacks have the same potency and effect? Doubtful^



Oh, so he just uses a weaker attack all together to try and save one of his friends even though he considers DD a great threat the the balance of the world and the Marines. 

The amount of BS you have to believe to think that is true is astounding.


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## Bohemian Knight (May 5, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> Oh, so he just uses a weaker attack all together to try and save one of his friends even though he considers DD a great threat the the balance of the world and the Marines.
> 
> The amount of BS you have to believe to think that is true is astounding.



Doflamingo is more of a political threat than anything else. At least in the grand scheme of the verse. He ain't shit to a top tier. Kuzan punked him. DD booked it despite the fact that killing Smoker was in his best interest, as he pointed at himself moments before.

No need to get so hostile bubba. I could give a darn what you think about me or my opinions. Spare me the comments about my delusion. If you want to debate, debate


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## Green Monkey (May 5, 2015)

DD obviously didn't want anything from Kuzan, but can we stop acting like that somehow makes Jozu look better?

Jozu was fighting under the direct order of his captain to save a crewmate that he loved.

The only reason DD had to fight was so that he could get an extra minute of revenge on Smoker. The longer he stayed there the more time Luffy had to fuck up his plans. Even if DD thought he had a 49% chance of winning I doubt he'd take that fight simply because there was no point in it.


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## Deleted member 211714 (May 5, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> Oh, you "suspect" so it is fact that we cannot use DD as a comparison because of your "suspecting".
> 
> FK you, you're going by an assumption and that does not sit with the BD and cannot be used in general debates where other peoples opinions are involved.
> 
> ...



Well, WB also had trouble using Haki during the war and even failed at using CoC when Ace was about to get executed. 

What else does Doflamingo have to break through the ice, whether it's deep freeze or not?
If I'm not mistaken, he used Conquerer's Haki not too long before that. It wouldn't be such a stretch to assume that CoC can break ice - similar to how it breaks the will of others - and Shanks even showed the ability to damage physical matter with it. Doffy clearly can't use CoC on the same level as Shanks, but the latter's skill isn't necessarily the minimum requirement to establish such feats.


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## Bohemian Knight (May 5, 2015)

I can agree that it doesn't make Jozu look better. Doesn't make him worse either.

Also, Doflamingo knows that Smoker has the power to fuck his plans up as well. It was in his best interest to kill Smoker then and there; Kuzan's presence indisputably guaranteed he couldn't do that


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## Green Monkey (May 5, 2015)

Bohemian Knight said:


> I can agree that it doesn't make Jozu look better. Doesn't make him worse either.
> 
> Also, Doflamingo knows that Smoker has the power to fuck his plans up as well. It was in his best interest to kill Smoker then and there; Kuzan's presence indisputably guaranteed he couldn't do that



It is in his best plans, but it's not in his best plans to get into a multi day fight (If it took Akainu 5 days to beat Ao Kiji, DD isn't doing it any quicker.) while Luffy and Law backdoor Dressrosa and take over his island. I think if any opponent who DD doesn't have confidence in beating quickly showed up he would have had about the same reaction as Kuzan, albeit he might have sauntered off with a little more swag instead of looking shook. His reputation as an upstanding shichibukai means nothing if he loses the power base that gives his title any meaning in the mean time.


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## Bohemian Knight (May 5, 2015)

Green Monkey said:


> It is in his best plans, but it's not in his best plans to get into a multi day fight (If it took Akainu 5 days to beat Ao Kiji, DD isn't doing it any quicker.) while Luffy and Law backdoor Dressrosa and take over his island. I think if any opponent who DD doesn't have confidence in beating quickly showed up he would have had about the same reaction as Kuzan, albeit he might have sauntered off with a little more swag instead of looking shook. His reputation as an upstanding shichibukai means nothing if he loses the power base that gives his title any meaning in the mean time.



Certainly all fair points. I think it's a bit ridiculous to even bring up the fight with Akainu. The thought of legitimately fighting Kuzan and winning wouldn't even cross Doflamingo's mind regardless of the circumstances so we don't need to get into that.

Other than that, all valid points


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## Gohara (May 5, 2015)

Luffy wins with high to extremely high difficulty.  Luffy is fighting on par with Doflamingo, who has better portrayal than Jozu.


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