# Why did people hate MGS2 and MGS The Twin Snakes so much?



## Nardo6670 (Feb 13, 2013)

Topic.

/10 char


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## "Shion" (Feb 13, 2013)

It wasn't Snake Eater.


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## Sephiroth (Feb 13, 2013)

I'm pretty sure the games aren't hated, people just don't like MGS2 Raiden and many say Twin Snakes is inferior to the original.


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## Hatifnatten (Feb 13, 2013)

Err.. nobody hates MGS2, it's one of the best games ever made.

Twin Snakes is just western trash.


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## Shoddragon (Feb 13, 2013)

asshurt maybe? after getting the the MGS HD collection and playing and beating MGS2, I have to say the hate it received was pure fanboyism at its worst. The complaints seemed to center around "OMFG NAKED CARTWHEELS RIADEN IS A FEG OMG SNAKE IS MANRY WE NEED HIM!".

you do get to play as snake for a small portion of the game that's true. but it's a different way to play when you use raiden for the rest of the game. it was actually a bit of a breath of fresh air. raiden controls differently, acts differently and even speaks different compared to solid snake. this also allows the plot to unfold differently considering most of it takes place from raiden's perspective as he looks at the world around him ( seeing how solidus interacts with people like ocelot, how he interacts with the real solid snake, Raiden learning about his own past, etc etc).

also, the complaints about "naked raiden cartwheels"? that shit is literally during the last hour or so of the game and takes up around 5 minutes of overall gameplay. THAT'S IT.

for your troubles you immediately get a badass vibrating blade from solid snake, gifted to him by olga.


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## Xiammes (Feb 13, 2013)

MGS2 was a great game, but alot of fans felt betrayed. Raiden was not shown in a single trailer, and he didn't get officially announced till the day of. Also alot of people have this misconception that the Solid series is actually about Solid Snake, when it actually just means 3d.

The remake was horrible, thats all I have to say.


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## Orochimaru800 (Feb 13, 2013)

Wait...people seriously complained about  Raiden's naked cartwheels? o_O


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## Sephiroth (Feb 13, 2013)

Orochimaru800 said:


> Wait...people seriously complained about  Raiden's naked cartwheels? o_O



People without a sense of humor.


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## Canute87 (Feb 13, 2013)

Better than a naked barrel roll i say.


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## Deathbringerpt (Feb 13, 2013)

Nothing really wrong with MGS2. Twin Snakes was the result of Kojima's terrible idea that Snake rocket surfing and doing stupid matrix bullshit belonged in the series for some reason. It's terrible.


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## Krory (Feb 13, 2013)

Metal Gear Solid might as well just be called "Why the fuck not?"


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## Krory (Feb 13, 2013)

Super cybernetic ninjas? Why the fuck not.

"Immortal" bisexual knife freak? Why the fuck not.

Rocket surfing and bullet dodging? Why the fuck not.

Fifteen minute ladder sequences? Why the fuck not.

(Hey, at least it wasn't a "Nanomachines" joke.)


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## bloodplzkthxlol (Feb 13, 2013)

twin snakes looks better than the original. voice acting wise its blegh. gameplay is updated to mgs2 style of play (stick up, first person view,) but can still be played like the original if one so desires. doing the former makes it too easy though.


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## Furious George (Feb 13, 2013)

.


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## dragonbattousai (Feb 13, 2013)

I didn't mind Twin Snakes.  I thought the graphic boost to the original game was great.


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## Dream Brother (Feb 15, 2013)

I never played TS, so I don't know anything about that.

In regard to MGS2, I think a lot of people just found it very jarring due to the protagonist switch from Snake to Raiden. (The Rose conversations were also grating at points.) 

It's quite a strange game. The other MGS games obviously had their share of weirdness too, but I think MGS2 feels particularly odd, as if Kojima is trying to do something different. Some people think it's an example of a 'postmodern game'. Other people think it's ridiculous and a big joke. Personally, I have a mixed opinion on it -- there are some genuinely good, interesting scenes in that game, but there are also others that leave me dubious. It feels like it's trying to communicate some important concepts about life to the person playing it rather than just entertain them, especially in a lot of Snake's dialogue near the end of the game, but it's arguable whether Kojima pulls it off or not. It's certainly a very distinctive game, either way.


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## Velocity (Feb 15, 2013)

I do agree that people probably found Sons of Liberty to be too philosophical and symbolic. It took the whole concept of "digital information is malleable and therefore inherently untrustworthy", which was pretty clever back before the internet became as integrated in every day life as it is now, and went crazy with it...

It's the sort of game that people weren't really expecting, I think... You wanted a stealth-based action game with a badass main character and you got vampires, women who repel bullets and a blonde-haired pretty boy in futuristic spandex. Throughout the whole series, Metal Gears are shown to be immensely powerful weapons of mass destruction and MGS2 has you kill dozens of them with an RPG. You wanted an almost Metroidvania approach to exploration and progression but instead get a surprisingly linear game with very little to explore...

I think that was the whole point, though... The whole game was about things not being the way they were supposed to be (like Raiden thinking he had only taken part in VR missions even though he was actually a child soldier being raised to become the next Snake, or the Colonel being an AI instead of a real person) and nothing about MGS2 was what people expected, something that was highlighted by even the promotional material (which never once mentioned Raiden, meaning that literally nobody knew Snake wasn't even the playable character until the game actually came out). 

From that perspective, from the perspective that MGS2 was a complete subversion of all expectations and even echoed the in-game message within the real world, Kojima succeeded.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 15, 2013)

Krory said:


> Super cybernetic ninjas? Why the fuck not.
> 
> "Immortal" bisexual knife freak? Why the fuck not.
> 
> ...



We need more why the fuck not in our games.


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## bloodplzkthxlol (Feb 15, 2013)

after just recently beating mgs2 i can now safely say that i didn't like it. i do know where they were coming from though and i can understand why some liked it or not.

i didn't like how lame raiden was, how girly he was, his voice was so submissive (sorry Quinton Flynn) his lame girlfriend (it feels like she's just there just because.) crotch grabbing (i get it he's a barbie doll) naked cartwheels (why?) the story takes itself seriously (corny as fuck), the bosses were lame (though fatman was kinda funny how he used rollerblades.) vamp had potential to be badass but really he feels like fan service for fangirls to pair him up with raiden. 

honestly i skipped most of the unnecessary long cutscenes that kept going on, and on, and repeating itself over and over again. this is metal gear solids thing? it doesn't feel like a movie it feels like a chore to sit through this. the pacing is really slow and hurts it as a result. i just wanna play the damn game spare me the boring details and let me play!

when i got the useless as fuck blade, snake kept stealing my kills. whats the point? it feels random how solidus instantly has blades and is a swordsmen now. and what was up with his doc ock robo arms?


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## Dream Brother (Feb 15, 2013)

bloodplzkthxlol said:


> honestly i skipped most of the unnecessary long cutscenes that kept going on, and on, and repeating itself over and over again.



I feel like this is just about the worst thing you can do in a MGS game. The games revolve around cinematic style storytelling. When you skip the cutscenes (and the codec conversations, assuming you did so) it must feel like you're playing in a strange sort of vacuum -- I would have absolutely no idea what was going on or who many of the characters even were if I constantly skipped scenes. MGS without the storytelling is...a very hollow experience, surely. 

Kojima does tend to get quite a lot of criticism for his lengthy cutscenes (and even I grew impatient during some of them in MGS4) but I think they basically give the games their heart. Without them I wouldn't be interested in playing at all.


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## bloodplzkthxlol (Feb 15, 2013)

if i wanted to watch a movie i'd watch a god damn movie. i want to PLAY the game, not watch it. i didn't skip all. just the ones i didn't care about at all.


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## James (Feb 15, 2013)

Twin Snakes is a soulless remake. Replacing the original's powerful music with mostly garbage? Cheers for that.

MGS2 was: "Whoa, why the fuck am I this guy?" and "None of this makes any sense at all."


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## Jon Snow (Feb 15, 2013)

quick answer:

MGS2 is really good. haters only mad cuz they didnt play as Snake the entire game.

The Twin Snakes is too hollywood. And the incorporated MGS2 control scheme with first person and all that doesn't fit Shadow Moses at all.


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## bloodplzkthxlol (Feb 15, 2013)

i tried giving raiden a chance. i honestly really did. but i just kept finding him lame.


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## Byrd (Feb 16, 2013)

Raiden was alright... he wasn't as terrible as people made him to be... MGS2 was a excellent game... The One part fighting beside Snake was amazing as well as trying to take his dog tags

Although it was nowhere near the in genius of MSG3


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## God Hand (Feb 16, 2013)

The only reason I like MGS2, was because of Olga and her hairy armpits


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## The World (Feb 16, 2013)

Grey Fox with original voice.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_aSxZ0HYPU[/YOUTUBE]


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## Ultimania (Feb 16, 2013)

@OP:


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## Nardo6670 (Feb 16, 2013)

I am, captain obvious.^


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## The810kid (Feb 17, 2013)

MGS 2 is probably my favorite one to replay the variety of things you could do such as bomb disposal the picture taking or Ray escorting E.E the swimming oarts infiltration with disguise all were unique.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Feb 22, 2013)

God Hand said:


> The only reason I like MGS2, was because of Olga and her hairy armpits



Olga's pretty awesome.

It is a tragedy that Snake shooting a pregnant woman full of tranquilizers probably contributed to her daughter having Autism.


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## bloodplzkthxlol (Feb 22, 2013)

i didn't know you could play as mgs1 snake! *few playthroughs later* why's he come with the extreme hard setting?


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## Zaelapolopollo (Feb 22, 2013)

Snake: Sunny, I want you to have this picture of your mom.


It was taken seconds before she was laying passed out on the ground, her face loaded with needles. I have a picture of that too but uh...Otacon likes to keep that in his "Personal" collection.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 22, 2013)

Zaelapolopollo said:


> It is a tragedy that Snake shooting a pregnant woman full of tranquilizers probably contributed to her daughter having Autism.



Woah.

Lol maybe that's why Snake agreed to take her in?


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## Byrd (Feb 22, 2013)

bloodplzkthxlol said:


> if i wanted to watch a movie i'd watch a god damn movie. i want to PLAY the game, not watch it. i didn't skip all. just the ones i didn't care about at all.



Well you won't enjoy much of the MGS series then


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