# Zoro vs Luffy



## Finalbeta (Nov 1, 2015)

S1: Asura and G4 allowed
S2: No Asura or G4


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## Vivo Diez (Nov 1, 2015)

Asura isn't enough of a big deal to matter as much as we've seen of it, versus something as significant as G4.

S1: Luffy mid-high diff
S2: Luffy high-extreme diff


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## Raiden34 (Nov 1, 2015)

An underling isn't beating the Captain, it is a spite thread.

@StrawHat4Life
Lock it please.


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## Quuon (Nov 1, 2015)

S1: Luffy with high difficulty.
S2: Luffy with high-extreme difficulty


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## Vivo Diez (Nov 1, 2015)

Erkan12 said:


> An underling isn't beating the Captain, it is a spite thread.
> 
> @StrawHat4Life
> Lock it please.



Says the guy pitting Mihawk against Cavendish.


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## Arkash (Nov 1, 2015)

S1 : Can go either way
S2 : Zoro mid diff


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## tanman (Nov 1, 2015)

S1: Luffy extreme diffs without going into G4.
S2: Luffy extreme difficulty.

Asura is just one featless move that's wanked to oblivion.


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## Bernkastel (Nov 1, 2015)

.Asura's power is uknown and there's no reason to put it above G4. It won't even make much difference against G4 since the main problem for Zoro is Luffy's overwhelming speed and power so Zoro doesn't need more power but a speed/defense boost instead.

Luffy at most high diff in the 1st scenario...at least for now.
Zoro has to show more before hoping to go further than that.

2nd scenario is a very high/extreme diff for Luffy.


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## Raiden34 (Nov 1, 2015)

Vivo Diez said:


> Says the guy pitting Mihawk against Cavendish.



Yes, that topic get locked, then this should be locked too.

I don't see why Mihawk should be that powerful, he is done nothing in comparison with high-top tiers, but somehow he is powerful enough to stomp Cavendish ? Interesting. I don't see any reason than being a fanboy of his.

Same with Zoro, that dumb swordsman did nothing in comparison with Luffy, but somehow his fanboys always comparing him to Luffy, while he is just an underling and Luffy is the Captain. This is a crazy fanboyism nothing more.

Zoro vs. Sanji is a good topic, not this.


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Nov 1, 2015)

Can't really envision Luffy beating Zoro no matter how hard I try. It just doesn't compute in my mind with the sheer power we've seen the later display without even going all out or being seriously pushed, and knowing his traditionally absurd level of endurance. Luffy's only edge is Gear 2's speed and mobility, which could enable him to land hits, but Zoro's masterful swordplay would put a stop to that as well. Luffy is actually Zoro's captain, but with fights in OP coming down to power, I'm not sure that really matters.

Gear 4 can land a couple of really heavy hits, but with the massive levels of untold power that Ashura holds, even that can be dealt with, not to mention, zoro can outlast Luffy's endurance, with his.

I will generously give Luffy the benefit of the doubt that he can make it to very high-extreme diff, but it doesn't go an inch over that as things stand right now.


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## ShadoLord (Nov 1, 2015)

S1: Zoro high-diffs
S2: Zoro high-diffs


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## StrawHat4Life (Nov 1, 2015)

Erkan12 said:


> An underling isn't beating the Captain, it is a spite thread.
> 
> @StrawHat4Life
> Lock it please.



This isn't a one sided battle. Those are the threads I generally close.


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## TheWiggian (Nov 1, 2015)

Luffy high high diff. 
Either way extreme diff, (givin Luffy the benefit of a doubt).


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Nov 1, 2015)

tanman said:


> Asura is just one featless move that's wanked to oblivion.



Featless you say?
Preskip it was the Gear 3 equivalent for Zoro. It turned a match that was more or less equal, into a 2 shot beat down. 
Post skip, Zoro seems to be matching Luffy's gear 3 output with his normal moves (like 1080 pound canon) 

If we scale from preskip, Ashura should hold a new level of power, comparable to gear 4.


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## gold ace (Nov 1, 2015)

The answer is blatantly obvious

Luffy high diffs in both scenarios.


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## StrawHat4Life (Nov 1, 2015)

Luffy will never lose to Zoro. So the outcome shouldn't be in doubt. The real question is how much difficulty it will take Luffy to put down Zoro. I'm guessing a hell of a lot.


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## Bernkastel (Nov 1, 2015)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> If we scale from preskip, Ashura should hold a new level of power, *comparable to gear 4*.



No G4 doesn't just give Luffy a power boost...it also gives blunt immunity,speed,floating along with great power and a whole new moveset.

Asura gives a power boost but that's it.
Asura isn't a mode like G4 that gives multiple boosts..it's just a powerfull attack.


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## Monstar6 (Nov 1, 2015)

S1: Luffy extrem diff
S2: Zoro High diff.

I think that "G4" give a more important boost than "Asura".


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## Raiden34 (Nov 1, 2015)

StrawHat4Life said:


> Luffy will never lose to Zoro. So the outcome shouldn't be in doubt. The real question is how much difficulty it will take Luffy to put down Zoro. *I'm guessing a hell of a lot.*



Can you give me a one example, which underling can push the Captain to that far in this series ? I really wonder.


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Nov 1, 2015)

Bernkastel said:


> No G4 doesn't just give Luffy a power boost...it also gives blunt immunity,speed,floating along with great power and a whole new moveset.



Yes, but Zoro's masterful swordsmanship and monstrous endurance puts  a stop to all that.



> Asura gives a power boost but that's it.
> Asura isn't a mode like G4 that gives multiple boosts..it's just a powerfull attack.



Considering it gives more swords to zoro, for which zoro has shown distinct attacks, it is more of a mode/stance than an attack like shi shi son son is.


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## Roronoa-zoro (Nov 1, 2015)

S1: Luffy high diffs. 

S2: Luffy extreme diffs.


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## Canute87 (Nov 1, 2015)

Luffy doesn't need g4 to defeat zoro.

He needed G4 to defeat Flamingo; somebody who zoro stands absolutely no chance of defeating.


That being said.

G4 luffy should easily dispatch zoro in the time frame.

Second fight borders around extreme difficulty for.  
If gear stacking is an option that should lower the fighting time. If fujitora is any indication there's not much zoro can do against that onslaught.


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## Raiden34 (Nov 1, 2015)

Luffy beats Zoro even without G4, his haki is better, strength is better, speed is better. I don't know how someone can actually compare them, while Luffy is another tier than Zoro.

Luffy mid-diffs.

Some could argue that Cavendish is faster than Luffy, but here, Zoro isn't anywhere near fast as Luffy either.


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## Quuon (Nov 1, 2015)

I don't know about another tier.


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## Raiden34 (Nov 1, 2015)

Quuon said:


> I don't know about another tier.



The necessary tier difference between the Captain and the Underling.


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## Canute87 (Nov 1, 2015)

Erkan12 said:


> Luffy beats Zoro even without G4, his haki is better, strength is better, speed is better. I don't know how someone can actually compare them, while Luffy is another tier than Zoro.
> 
> Luffy mid-diffs.
> 
> Some could argue that Cavendish is faster than Luffy, but here, Zoro isn't anywhere near fast as Luffy either.



COA Haki being better is debatable, their strength is pretty much the same.

Nobody competent has had any real issues dealing with luffy's speed.  Zoro can easily react and block G2 attacks.


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## Bernkastel (Nov 1, 2015)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Yes, but Zoro's masterful swordsmanship and monstrous endurance puts  a stop to all that.



No it doesn't actually ..not even close 
If DD's best offense and defense got penetrated (  ) then Zoro's endurance won't mean jack.



> Considering it gives more swords to zoro, for which zoro has shown distinct attacks, it is more of a mode/stance than an attack like shi shi son son is.



We don't really know how it works but so far it hasn't shown to be a mode. It might be shown that way in the ts but there's no way to know.
Even if it's a mode it was never shown to give any stat boost other offense.


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## tanman (Nov 1, 2015)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Featless you say?
> Preskip it was the Gear 3 equivalent for Zoro. It turned a match that was more or less equal, into a 2 shot beat down.
> Post skip, Zoro seems to be matching Luffy's gear 3 output with his normal moves (like 1080 pound canon)
> 
> If we scale from preskip, Ashura should hold a new level of power, comparable to gear 4.



Several things wrong with this:
Asura defeated Kaku with one attack, not two. Much in the same way all of Zoro's fights have ended.

Asura isn't a mode. It's an attack. So it can't be a G3 equivalent. So maybe it's a Gigant Pistol equivalent?

But it probably isn't that strong when Asura was used to take out an opponent much weaker than Lucci.

I said it was featless because there is no post-skip Asura. As you said you're extrapolating it's power based on "scaling from preskip." But that's dumb because it's reliant on several (likely biased) assumptions as you highlighted with your post. 

Assumptions: 
a) Asura was and continues to be an integral part of Zoro's moveset. This is the most bizarre of the assumption since the move hasn't been mentioned or alluded to by Zoro. 
b) Asura is a mode, not a single attack
c) Asura was as powerful as G3 pre-skip despite Oda clearly putting Luffy/Lucci on a different level
d) Asura has improved at the exact same rate as all of Zoro's other moves.
e) Zoro's other moves are just a part of his weaker moveset or "normal" moves like you suggested.
f) Asura is not just above those moves, but so much above, that it can match G4 (not just a G4 attack, but G4 itself)


It's not surprising that when you use so many ridiculous assumption, you get a ridiculous conclusion.


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Nov 1, 2015)

Bernkastel said:


> No it doesn't actually ..not even close
> If DD's best offense and defense got penetrated (  ) then Zoro's endurance won't mean jack.



While I do agree that taking a king kong gun would be problematic, the truth is, doflamingo tried to face that head on, even though he said he'd be exploiting his maneuverability in mid air, thus he was bound by PIS and tried to directly take it. Zoro on the other hand in this fight won't have PIS, so he won't try to take hits like that head on and if luffy attempts it, he'd be wasting a bunch of stamina.


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## Raiden34 (Nov 1, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> COA Haki being better is debatable, their strength is pretty much the same.
> 
> Nobody competent has had any real issues dealing with luffy's speed.  Zoro can easily react and block G2 attacks.



Zoro couldn't even react Fujitora that he was going to stop his attack while Zoro was attacking Doflamingo. Then he gets crushed by Fuji.

Lastly Zoro get trouble with tagging Carrot, who isn't Doffy speed tier. While Luffy showed that better speed feats against Doffy, with saving Kyros and taking credit by Doffy about his speed, and catching Cavendish's sword with his bare hands.

Luffy's CoA is going head to head with Doffy, who is more powerful than Law, who is more powerful than Zoro. Luffy even overpowered Chinjao's head with his CoA, what is hard enough to not get pierce by Cavendish's sword. I don't see how Zoro can compete with him in terms of Haki either.


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## Canute87 (Nov 1, 2015)

tanman said:


> Several things wrong with this:
> Asura defeated Kaku with one attack, not two. Much in the same way all of Zoro's fights have ended.
> 
> Asura isn't a mode. It's an attack. So it can't be a G3 equivalent. So maybe it's a Gigant Pistol equivalent?
> ...



It's seems that ashura is being highlighted as  different style.


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## Bernkastel (Nov 1, 2015)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> While I do agree that taking a king kong gun would be problematic, the truth is, doflamingo tried to face that head on, even though he said he'd be exploiting his maneuverability in mid air, thus he was bound by PIS and tried to directly take it. Zoro on the other hand in this fight won't have PIS, so he won't try to take hits like that head on and if luffy attempts it, he'd be wasting a bunch of stamina.



DD was still putting up his best offense and defense and still got wrecked.
Luffy is also much faster than Zoro and if DD couldn't react to G4 then Zoro won't even realise what hit him...he'll be basically be at the mercy of Luffy for the duration of G4 and unable to do anything.

People tend to overlook the speed factor here but in reality it's one of the most important things to take in cosideration...it's not like magically Zoro will be able to react or keep up with G4 just cause..


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## Quuon (Nov 1, 2015)

Zoro should be able to react to G4 _eventually_. DD only got blitzed once if I'm recalling correctly.


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Nov 1, 2015)

tanman said:


> Several things wrong with this:
> Asura defeated Kaku with one attack, not two. Much in the same way all of Zoro's fights have ended.



He used one to dispel kaku's giant rankakyu, followed by running upto to kaku and then attempting the move. Therefore he used two different attacks and seemed to use it as a mode rather than a singular attack like shishisonson or the such.

It's treated very much like a mode in it's first showing: 



Zoro says "asura" to indicate he enters the mode, dispels the rankakyu, runs a bit, and then says "asura ichibugin" to indicate the attack of said mode.

Not only that, but at Saboady he uses a different attack than ichibugin (Asura: Makyusen), making it a mode. 

These are traits of mode, not a singular attack. 




> But it probably isn't that strong when Asura was used to take out an opponent much weaker than Lucci.
> 
> c) Asura was as powerful as G3 pre-skip despite Oda clearly putting Luffy/Lucci on a different level



Did I say it was as powerful as G3 preskip? I said it was zoro's powerup equivalent, not the powerup equal. As mark twain eloquently drew the analogy: "The difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and a lightning bug"

I've disputed your "Assumptions" list at this point.


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## Alakazam (Nov 1, 2015)

S1: Luffy extreme diff
S2: Toss-up


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## Canute87 (Nov 1, 2015)

Erkan12 said:


> Zoro couldn't even react Fujitora that he was going to stop his attack while Zoro was attacking Doflamingo. Then he gets crushed by Fuji.



Zoro couldn't react to an ADMIRAL'S speed at close distance with his attention focused on flamingo? Is this really something anybody can use to downplay zoro?
He didn't get crushed, he forcefully stopped the attack.



> Lastly Zoro get trouble with tagging Carrot, who isn't Doffy speed tier. While Luffy showed that better speed feats against Doffy, with saving Kyros and taking credit by Doffy about his speed, and catching Cavendish's sword with his bare hands.


Carrot is using movements that zoro isn't used to.. Also there's no point in oda having zoro mercilessly own the bitch, she stands absolutely no chance of beating zoro, this is like believing that coby back in water 7 got that one kick on luffy luffy is shit, that squabble with carrot ended before zoro actually got serious.

Cavendish is shit.

Flamingo commenting on speed while laughing off the attacks in the process. As if it takes any time for zoro to lift a sword.



> Luffy's CoA is going head to head with Doffy, who is more powerful than Law, who is more powerful than Zoro. Luffy even overpowered Chinjao's head with his CoA, what is hard enough to not get pierce by Cavendish's sword. I don't see how Zoro can compete with him in terms of Haki either.




Law's COA was also going head to head with flamingo. Luffy overpowered chinajo's flat with his COA augmenting his most powerful G3 attack to date

There's nothing about law's COA that puts him above anyone.  Smoker was easily tagging with him also.


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## gold ace (Nov 1, 2015)

Quuon said:


> Zoro should be able to react to G4 _eventually_. DD only got blitzed once if I'm recalling correctly.



DD got blitzed 4 times lol


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Nov 1, 2015)

gold ace said:


> He got blitzed by Kong Gun. He got blitzed by rhino shcineter. He got blitzed by cavalry cannon. He got blitzed by Leo Bazooka.



I'm sorry, I donot call getting blitzed being able to put up your arms before the attack lands.


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## Canute87 (Nov 1, 2015)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Now a completely healthy zoro should do far better especially with his masterful swordsmanship



he only dodged one attack...... In mid air....something zoro cannot do.  Zoro's defensives cannot continuously hold up.  flamingo never blocked a high end g4 attack without being sent miles away into concrete and some attacks were even flat out destroying his strings.

Or people are overestimating flamingo's damage  when law slapped him with the gamma knife he was on the ground screaming in pain applied the strings he was back up in fighting condition.  Flamingo at point point ever stuttered in his movement.  not once. He even went on to use even more of his DF abilities 

People are using this to put some quantifiable stats on flamingo at full power which is madness.

The one and only thing a healthy flamingo could have done against G4 is take more damage he would have been just as overpowered until the G4 burned out sealing luffy's fate.


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## Jackalinthebox (Nov 1, 2015)

The downplay of Gamma Knife will never end.


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## Quuon (Nov 1, 2015)

Jackalinthebox said:


> The downplay of Gamma Knife will never end.



Agreed. 

Healthy DD > G4 Luffy > Life Alert Doffy/Deathbed/1 HP Doffy >> G2/G3 Luffy


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## RileyD (Nov 1, 2015)

Luffy beats Zoro with high difficulty without needing G4 if the plot isn't relying on Luffy's stupidity to extend the arc.
4000>2200 and Luffy now has even more extreme abilities (and even better moves he has yet to show due to the law of shounen requiring the main char to have the most impressive new ability in an arc) the gap has only widened. 
I wouldn't be *surprised *if Luffy could already beat Mihawk- who is sub admiral and sub yonkou level-  with extreme diff if he was completely fresh(unlike the doflamingo fight).


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## Canute87 (Nov 1, 2015)

Jackalinthebox said:


> The downplay of Gamma Knife will never end.



Gamma knife effect was completely held in by the strings.


When the strings popped after the leo bazooka the gamma knife effect started flowing back in.

Funny thing about all this is that no one can show the signs,  flamingo was easily shrugging off G2 attacks and dodging G3 with utmost ease kicking luffy send him flying essentially dominating him when luffy is showing more signs of fatigue while flamingo showed ZERO

yet when G4 comes in people suddenly want to believe "oh healthy flamingo would do so much better"


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Nov 1, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> he only dodged one attack...... In mid air....something zoro cannot do.  Zoro's defensives cannot continuously hold up.  flamingo never blocked a high end g4 attack without being sent miles away into concrete and some attacks were even flat out destroying his strings.



Yes, and he dodged. Which goes completely against the whole trope of "G4 bltized doffy" that we see.

Look mate, Zoro's masterful swordsmanship preskip was able to deflect an attack from oarz:
Oarz, whose arm is not only bigger, heavier, but also faster than preskip gear 3 Luffy's attack. Now if we scale time skip and factor in the fact that zoro's skill must've improved drastically (especially his skill with the black sword which he wasnt familiar with in TB), he should be able to deflect atleast a few of Luffy's Gear 4 high end attacks not counting asura



> Or people are overestimating flamingo's damage  when law slapped him with the gamma knife he was on the ground screaming in pain applied the strings he was back up in fighting condition.  Flamingo at point point ever stuttered in his movement.  not once. He even went on to use even more of his DF abilities



I've already showed panels indicating his decline in power which is shocking. Doffy himself said it's not healing. It's high level first aid at best. A cast. It's logical to say his physical prowess declined, which we see on  panel.


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Nov 1, 2015)

Bernkastel said:


> He was on the defensive most of the time so i don't see how Zoro a weaker and slower character can do better.
> .



He was on the defensive even against base luffy and got straight blitzed by Gear 2 luffy at one point. You might not want to argue the effect of gamma knife, but it played a major role. It failed yes. But it failed to kill doffy. That was law's goal, and that was what doffy meant by the attack failing. Doffy's string repair was the equivalent of first aid. Good first aid can stop one from dying, but first aid isn't healing.

I've already comprehensively demonstrated Doffy's shocking and drastic demise in power in my previous post to you, so I wont repeat those arguments.


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## savior2005 (Nov 1, 2015)

Scenario 1: luffy high diff.
2: luffy extreme diff.


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## RileyD (Nov 1, 2015)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> He was on the defensive even against base luffy and got straight blitzed by Gear 2 luffy at one point. You might not want to argue the effect of gamma knife, but it played a major role. It failed yes. But it failed to kill doffy. That was law's goal, and that was what doffy meant by the attack failing. Doffy's string repair was the equivalent of first aid. Good first aid can stop one from dying, but first aid isn't healing.


It wasn't to stop him from dying, he wouldn't have died anyway (didn't die despite all the added damage from King Kong on top of his powers which dissipated when he went unconscious- law overhyped the move- it didn't even bring Doflamingo to his back or stop his death grip on Law) It was to allow him to fight at a decent capability. Doflamingo mentions Luffys handicap first and then Luffy suggests that Laws move must have "slowed him down as well".



> I've already comprehensively demonstrated Doffy's shocking and drastic demise in power in my previous post to you, so I wont repeat those arguments.




That was:
plot related - Luffy does not go all out until the end, he was less impressive vs monet, hyouzu, CC (early in the arc) than his actual power suggests. If luffy was beating up Doflamingo from the begining there is no tension.

and circumstance related (first scenario involved luffy who didn't know doflamingo's ability and was babysitting Kyros, second scenario involved luffy fucking around on a bull without footing and next to water while babysitting law)

You are ignoring canon that Doflamingo states Luffy's handicap is worse (at the very least equal) to his own.


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## Quuon (Nov 1, 2015)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Yes, and he dodged. Which goes completely against the whole trope of "G4 bltized doffy" that we see.
> 
> Look mate, Zoro's masterful swordsmanship preskip was able to deflect an attack from oarz:
> Oarz, whose arm is not only bigger, heavier, but also faster than preskip gear 3 Luffy's attack. Now if we scale time skip and factor in the fact that zoro's skill must've improved drastically (especially his skill with the black sword which he wasnt familiar with in TB), he should be able to deflect atleast a few of Luffy's Gear 4 high end attacks not counting asura
> ...



Did Luffy not physically dominate Oarz in a mode that Gear 4 draws inspiration from?


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Nov 1, 2015)

**


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## Bohemian Knight (Nov 1, 2015)

tanman said:


> S1: Luffy extreme diffs without going into G4.
> S2: Luffy extreme difficulty.
> 
> Asura is just one featless move that's wanked to oblivion.



Asura is not a move. I don't know where people get this idea. Asura is more or less a mode. In it he has used Ichinugin (Kaku) and Makyusen (Pacifista). We should expect a greater movepool when Zoro starts using it again.

As for your outcomes, I'll take Luffy extreme diff in scenario 1 like you said.

With the restrictions, I would logically go with Luffy extreme diff as well. Luffy has better hype and portrayal. Yet, Zoro hasn't used Asura and his feats looked better than pre-G4 Luffy's. So purely by feats I'd take Zoro, but I'm expecting that to change as well. I guess either extreme diff for now if we take portrayal, hype, and feats into account


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## Bohemian Knight (Nov 1, 2015)

RileyD said:


> Luffy beats Zoro with high difficulty without needing G4 if the plot isn't relying on Luffy's stupidity to extend the arc.
> *4000>2200* and Luffy now has even more extreme abilities (and even better moves he has yet to show due to the law of shounen requiring the main char to have the most impressive new ability in an arc) the gap has only widened.
> I wouldn't be *surprised *if Luffy could already beat Mihawk- who is sub admiral and sub yonkou level-  with extreme diff if he was completely fresh(unlike the doflamingo fight).



It's debatable as to whether or not Luffy was stronger than Lucci in EL. That was his closest fight, and he needed Nakama power to win it. But let's just say Luffy was exactly 4000. Zoro was able to continue fighting and help the crew stave off a buster call. He was in good shape considering the length of his fight with Kaku, indicating that he definitely was not at 2200. Luffy couldn't move after his fight, and he had some pretty favorable advantages going for him (Lucci PIS taking on a G3 move and Nakama power for Luffy to get up after going down). Luffy was definitely the strongest, no questions asked, but your comprehension of the gap is way off mate


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## Canute87 (Nov 1, 2015)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Yes, and he dodged. Which goes completely against the whole trope of "G4 bltized doffy" that we see.
> 
> Look mate, Zoro's masterful swordsmanship preskip was able to deflect an attack from oarz:
> Oarz, whose arm is not only bigger, heavier, but also faster than preskip gear 3 Luffy's attack. Now if we scale time skip and factor in the fact that zoro's skill must've improved drastically (especially his skill with the black sword which he wasnt familiar with in TB), he should be able to deflect atleast a few of Luffy's Gear 4 high end attacks not counting asura



Zoro had time to look on his sword have a conversation with himself and get ready for counter WHILE oars was in the middle of punching.

Absolutely not, it's a very slow attack.




> I've already showed panels indicating his decline in power which is shocking. Doffy himself said it's not healing. It's high level first aid at best. A cast.* It's logical to say his physical prowess declined, which we see on  panel*.



No this is not a logical deduction,  even worse when that deduction is made upon ambiguous statements with no signs to show.

It's a weak argument to use for doflamingo's drop in power *especially* to the degree that you guys are making.

"Doflamingo got severely weakened and was unable to perform up to par because he said his strings didn't heal the gamma knife effect"

I honestly can't see how people can find comfort this statement.


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## Raiden34 (Nov 1, 2015)

Bohemian Knight said:


> Asura is not a move. I don't know where people get this idea. Asura is more or less a mode.



Completely wrong.

Its not like a DJ or Gear Second mode, otherwise I don't see the reason why Zoro didn't use that mode against Px from the start. It's a finishing move.


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## xmysticgohanx (Nov 1, 2015)

S1: assuming Asura is Zoro's post-ts full power, tie
S2: Zoro high or mid diff


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## Vivo Diez (Nov 1, 2015)

Duuuude.

The Zoro wank on this board is unbelievable. 

The Asura move he's barely done and it's not incorporated into his regular moveset, all of your assumptions about it being his ultimate weapon post-ts are just blind assumptions.

Luffy is the captain, he's the strongest. There's no debate. G4 is overkill until Zoro steps up his game and shows something compareable.

Also, poor Sanji


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## Bohemian Knight (Nov 1, 2015)

Erkan12 said:


> Completely wrong.
> 
> Its not like a DJ or Gear Second mode, otherwise I don't see the reason why Zoro didn't use that mode against Px from the start. It's a finishing move.



Asura: Ichibugin
Asura: Makyusen

How the hell do you explain why he has named Asura techniques the same way Luffy and Sanji have named techniques for their power-ups. You can't, because it isn't a move.

It's like saying tha Santoryuu is a move. It's a style. Asura is a mode and Kyutoryu is the style he uses in that mode. Ichibugin and Makyusen are moves. Don't tell me I'm wrong mf


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Nov 1, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> Zoro had time to look on his sword have a conversation with himself and get ready for counter WHILE oars was in the middle of punching.
> 
> Absolutely not, it's a very slow attack.




*Spoiler*: __ 










Here's doflamingo having a nice ass conversation with himself about the nature and power of gear 4 (how it retracts, how its power is obscene), while it takes multiple panels for it to retract all the while while luffy is also talking to Doffy about how he won't let him make his move. Do you hear me saying how snails pace speed it is? No? Okay. 



> It's a weak argument to use for doflamingo's drop in power *especially* to the degree that you guys are making.



We guys are making? oda's panels and depiction made it that way. Which I've already shown. 




> I honestly can't see how people can find comfort this statement.



I honestly don't see how people can outright deny how much damage it did.


----------



## Intus Legere (Nov 1, 2015)

Scenario one: I?d rather only judge after seeing how much power Ashura packs after the time-skip. I?d wager it?d be enough to hurt Luffy badly enough even through his G4 haki defenses, although catching him will be troublesome since his speed is great in G4.

Scenario two: Zoro wins, high difficulty. His Sanzen Sekai causes more damage than anything Luffy has ever showed by a significant margin. Zoro portrayal in general was quite superior to Luffy?s, before G4.


----------



## Canute87 (Nov 1, 2015)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Flamingo didn't exactly have a fist flying at him in the mid of the conversation but whatever you think will work for you.



> We guys are making? oda's panels and depiction made it that way. Which I've already shown.



I'm using those same panels,  they don't.




> I honestly don't see how people can outright deny how much damage it did.



It's damage was flamingo on the ground dying.  Flamingo brought them back together with his strings and had no issues moving.  I can go on and on.


----------



## IchijiNijiSanji (Nov 1, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> Flamingo didn't exactly have a fist flying at him in the mid of the conversation but whatever you think will work for you.


The second luffy jumped off Doffy did have a fist flying at him


----------



## Canute87 (Nov 1, 2015)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> The second luffy jumped off Doffy did have a fist flying at him



It can't be flying if it's retracting into his body.


----------



## IchijiNijiSanji (Nov 1, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> It can't be flying if it's retracting into his body.



Luffy jumped at Doffy, so it means his attack sequence  was in progress. Retraction is an unatural movement when it comes to throwing a puch. Luffy can be retracting while he punch is being thrown. If we see how luffy's legs are drawn with the speed lines, luffy was hurrying towards doffy very quickly. Even the sound effect oda used is the same as when he blitzed doffy later.


----------



## Freechoice (Nov 1, 2015)

The whole "thought between attacks" thing is a commonplace element of manga and comics

That's why anime sometimes looks stupid when they draw straight from the manga and the dude thinking shitloads while this attack is coming towards him

It's literally in every single

manga/comic that involves fighting


----------



## ScottofFury (Nov 1, 2015)

S1 - Luffy 

S2 - Zoro


----------



## convict (Nov 1, 2015)

Scenario 1: Luffy highish difficulty due to G4
Scenario 2: Either way as both G4 and Asura are blocked.


----------



## Amol (Nov 1, 2015)

Unrestricted Zoro vs G2/G3 Luffy : It can go either way.
Unrestricted Luffy vs Unrestricted Zoro : Luffy High diffs.


----------



## batman22wins (Nov 2, 2015)

They tie in both scenarios because they been equal for 90% of the manga.


----------



## Dunno (Nov 2, 2015)

S1: Luffy wins with extreme diff.
S2: Zoro wins with higher end of mid diff.


----------



## Dellinger (Nov 2, 2015)

Zoro does not have awakening to stall G4's onslaught like Doflamingo.Nor he is as durable,as fast and versatile as Doffy.

He loses.Horribly.


----------



## goldsaint13 (Nov 27, 2015)

Zoro and Luffy were equal before timeskip and even if now we have no objective proof of them being already, they are clearly at least very close...

Basically it's impossible to determine! We have yet to see Ashura advanced super techniques with Hardening Armament Haki activated... Zoro has yet to be pushed to the limit by some opponent!

Considering Luffy in the fights he has been pushed not beyond how much Zoro has been pushed until now, they seem quite equal as usual!


----------



## yantos (Nov 27, 2015)

s1 : extreme diff fight 
s2 :  restricting g4 and asura would only do more damage to luffy than zoro . grand master high diffs


----------



## goldsaint13 (Nov 27, 2015)

Who ever wins, the sole doubt we cannot have is about the extreme high difficulty and length of the fight... There are no post-TS proofs of them being equal but they are presented as such like in the past...


----------



## NUMBA1TROLL (Nov 27, 2015)

High diff by actual strength.

Extreme diff if it ever happens in manga.


----------



## MYJC (Nov 27, 2015)

Luffy high-diffs in both scenarios if you consider using G4 to be automatic high diff. 

Zoro really can't do anything against G4.


----------



## goldsaint13 (Nov 27, 2015)

MYJC said:


> Zoro really can't do anything against G4.



Wait for him to face an equivalent threat before assuming it...


----------



## HisMajestyMihawk (Nov 27, 2015)

Zoro would have killed Deathbed Doflamingo

G4 Luffy needed 2 rounds including a 10minute rest

Zoro > G4 Luffy I don't know how anyone can deny this with their own fanfic logic


----------



## Freechoice (Nov 27, 2015)

An unrestricted Luffy vs unrestricted Zoro leave Zoro dead after a upper mid diff fight

With G4 restricted it goes either way


----------



## barreltheif (Nov 27, 2015)

Unrestricted: Luffy wins with very high diff. I don't think Zoro has any real hope of outlasting G4, but the fact that Luffy absolutely needs his strongest form to win (and that he'll be incapacitated afterwards) means that it's very high diff.

No G4/Asura: Zoro high diffs. G4 is a much, much bigger powerup than Asura.


----------



## Freechoice (Nov 27, 2015)

barreltheif said:


> Unrestricted: Luffy wins with very high diff. I don't think Zoro has any real hope of outlasting G4, but the fact that Luffy absolutely needs his strongest form to win (and that he'll be incapacitated afterwards) means that it's very high diff.
> 
> No G4/Asura: Zoro high diffs. G4 is a much, much bigger powerup than Asura.



Asura isn't a powerup, period.

It's an attack.

Unless you think Zoro will start running around with 9 swords and 3 heads.


----------



## HisMajestyMihawk (Nov 27, 2015)

lol said:


> Asura isn't a powerup, period.
> 
> It's an attack.
> 
> Unless you think Zoro will start running around with 9 swords and 3 heads.




Oda told me that Zoro > Garp and that Garp was a shit


----------



## Geralt-Singh (Nov 28, 2015)

Scenario 1 : Luffy high diff
Scenario 2 : Zoro mid diff


----------



## Raiden34 (Nov 28, 2015)

Luffy stomps.


----------



## TheWiggian (Nov 29, 2015)

Yeah Luffy gets stomped without G4


----------



## giantbiceps (Nov 29, 2015)

S1: Luffy mid-diffs.
S2: Luffy mid-diffs.

Zoro isn't beating Luffy or giving him extreme-diff. Zoro wankers get out of here


----------



## goldsaint13 (Nov 29, 2015)

barreltheif said:


> No G4/Asura: Zoro high diffs. G4 is a much, much bigger powerup than Asura.



Unless you have divination and has seen post-timeskip Ashura + Haki I doubt you could tell this unless by assumption!



giantbiceps said:


> S1: Luffy mid-diffs.
> Zoro isn't beating Luffy or giving him extreme-diff. Zoro wankers get out of here



You are the common-places wankers and you are defeated since the beginning of OP, especially during Wiskey Peak for instance... 

You wanted your dear Captain/main character as the strongest and he has an equal instead!

Even after timeskip although we have no proof that they are equal like they were in the pre timeskip, nothing seems going the other way!


----------



## giantbiceps (Nov 29, 2015)

goldsaint13 said:


> You are the common-places wankers and you are defeated since the beginning of OP, especially during Wiskey Peak for instance...
> 
> You wanted your dear Captain/main character as the strongest and *he has an equal instead*!
> 
> Even after timeskip although we have no proof that they are equal like they were in the pre timeskip, nothing seems going the other way!


----------



## goldsaint13 (Nov 29, 2015)

Try to prove him stronger instead of laughing..................


Ops... You can't and never could since the beginning of the story... 



Pre-timeskip: confirmed equal by ANY canon source.

Post-timeskip: still to be determined but NO proof about Luffy being stronger since Zoro has even yet to show his best.



You are the usual common-placer who just assume Luffy's stronger because he's Luffy and he has to be! There are many of you but you have no hope on this matter...

Facts and comparisons only count!


----------



## Raiden34 (Nov 29, 2015)

Zoro continues to getting stomped.


----------



## giantbiceps (Nov 29, 2015)

goldsaint13 said:


> *Try to prove him stronger* instead of laughing..................


----------



## Kaiser (Nov 29, 2015)

lol said:


> Asura isn't a powerup, period.
> 
> It's an attack.
> 
> Unless you think Zoro will start running around with 9 swords and 3 heads.


1- Asura is a stance
2- Kyutoryu is a different swords style
3- It was used as a defensive move(to dispatch Kaku's amanedachi)
4- And as an offensive move, with 2 different named attacks(Ichibugin & Makyusen)


----------



## Extravlad (Nov 29, 2015)

S1 Luffy high-high diff.

S2 Zoro mid-high or high-low diffs.

Keep in mind that Zoro hasn't gone all out yet so it might end up being Zoro = unrestricted Luffy once again.


----------



## Raiden34 (Nov 29, 2015)

Who ever thinks Zoro has any slight chance, then that person is a hardcore Zoro fanboy.

No underling is winning against the Captain.


----------



## Quipchaque (Nov 29, 2015)

Erkan12 said:


> Who ever thinks Zoro has any slight chance, then that person is a hardcore Zoro fanboy.
> 
> No underling is winning against the Captain.


----------



## goldsaint13 (Nov 29, 2015)

Erkan12 said:


> Zoro continues to getting stomped.




Not even in your dreams.









Simply put, Luffy vs Zoro would be the same kind of battle as Ace vs Jimbe was.



DiscoZoro20 said:


> ...




  This is a good way to answer!


----------



## giantbiceps (Nov 29, 2015)




----------



## gold ace (Nov 29, 2015)

A gag fight 16 arcs ago shows Zoro=Luffy?


----------



## goldsaint13 (Nov 29, 2015)

gold ace said:


> A gag fight 16 arcs ago shows Zoro=Luffy?




*Spoiler*: __ 









Serious fight.


It shows Luffy = Zoro at least at the time.


What does shows otherwise further on?


----------



## Quipchaque (Nov 29, 2015)

gold ace said:


> A gag fight 16 arcs ago shows Zoro=Luffy?



Dude that isn?t even the point. They may or may not be equal and tbh I don?t give a flying fuck about it either way as long as there is at least clear panel evidence for either side but to use logic like "captain>underling" and apply it to Luffy and Zoro who were always portrayed as outlier in this manga is retarded to say the least.

Just reading what they say is enough to realise that. They obviously do not know who is stronger despite their respective ranks in the crew meaning it never held any relevance to them in the first place.


----------



## Raiden34 (Nov 29, 2015)

Zoro vs Lucci

[YOUTUBE]LDcub4k6kzE[/YOUTUBE]

Luffy vs Lucci

[YOUTUBE]aS0-x9qEM3A[/YOUTUBE]

Luffy fodderizes Zoro.


----------



## gold ace (Nov 29, 2015)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Dude that isn?t even the point. They may or may not be equal and tbh I don?t give a flying fuck about it either way as long as there is at least clear panel evidence for either side but to use logic like "captain>underling" and apply it to Luffy and Zoro who were always portrayed as outlier in this manga is retarded to say the least.
> 
> Just reading what they say is enough to realise that. They obviously do not know who is stronger despite their respective ranks in the crew meaning it never held any relevance to them in the first place.



I agree with that, but based off of feats Zoro<Luffy


----------



## Raiden34 (Nov 29, 2015)

gold ace said:


> based off of feats Zoro<Luffy



No, based on feats ;

Luffy >>> Zoro


----------



## goldsaint13 (Nov 29, 2015)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Dude that isn?t even the point. They may or may not be equal and tbh I don?t give a flying fuck about it either way as long as there is at least clear panel evidence for either side but to use logic like "captain>underling" and apply it to Luffy and Zoro who were always portrayed as outlier in this manga is retarded to say the least.



Definitely.



> Just reading what they say is enough to realise that. They obviously do not know who is stronger despite their respective ranks in the crew meaning it never held any relevance to them in the first place.



Yes, that's it. They just go by common-places and assumptions the ridiculous way too. They have no proof to demonstrate Luffy > Zoro and it's clearly evident by their posts! 

After more than 10 years that I disprove those common-placers of the "Captain > non-captain" bullshit I clearly realized that they have just NOTHING!

Luffy = Zoro has a direct fight and Databook statements but they have just NOTHING outside of their sensation or even worse what they want it to be!

They will be always defeated by facts and logic!



Erkan12 said:


> ...



Luffy vs Lucci at the same time as Zoro vs Lucci:

[YOUTUBE]Qx_1EqmpeGA[/YOUTUBE]

Where's Zoro rematch to judge?



> Luffy fodderizes Zoro.



In your dreams. If you talk about reality you need proofs and you have none.



gold ace said:


> I agree with that, but based off of feats Zoro<Luffy





Erkan12 said:


> No, based on feats ;
> 
> Luffy >>> Zoro



No, because Zoro doesn't have tried those feats to make a comparison!


----------



## gold ace (Nov 29, 2015)

goldsaint13 said:


> No, because Zoro doesn't have tried those feats to make a comparison!



Not sure what you are saying.


----------



## goldsaint13 (Nov 29, 2015)

gold ace said:


> Not sure what you are saying.



I mean that it's true that Luffy has higher feats but just because he had the chance to have them! If Luffy tries something succeeding he gets a feat but if Zoro is not there and doesn't try the same you can't tell that he wouldn't have had the same result and feat!

Luffy never had a feat that Zoro also tried resulting better than him in the outcome. It happened sometimes but only while Luffy had an advantage (Ener) or Zoro a disadvantage (Arlong) but it NEVER happened that Luffy resulted better than Zoro at the same given conditions. Not in terms of raw battle power at least... Maybe just versatility, adaptability, etc.


----------



## Extravlad (Nov 29, 2015)

Giantbiceps you're full of hate but don't forget  Zoro sent Kaku back to the Zoo in EL and could've beaten Lucci according to an official databook 

And Enel is just whatever, current Zoro would give him the Monet treatment.


----------



## gold ace (Nov 29, 2015)

goldsaint13 said:


> I mean that it's true that Luffy has higher feats but just because he had the chance to have them! If Luffy tries something succeeding he gets a feat but if Zoro is not there and doesn't try the same you can't tell that he wouldn't have had the same result and feat!
> 
> Luffy never had a feat that Zoro also tried resulting better than him in the outcome. It happened sometimes but only while Luffy had an advantage (Ener) or Zoro a disadvantage (Arlong) but it NEVER happened that Luffy resulted better than Zoro at the same given conditions. Not in terms of raw battle power at least... Maybe just versatility, adaptability, etc.



You are correct. But that's what you have to base it on, the feats that they have shown. You can't speculate in a versus match. I agree that if Zoro maybe would've shown his Asura, then Zoro might be equal to Luffy, or maybe even stronger. But we haven't seen it and is only speculation.


----------



## Raiden34 (Nov 29, 2015)

goldsaint13 said:


> Luffy vs Lucci at the same time as Zoro vs Lucci:



Lmao. Except Zoro didn't face with Lucci again, while Luffy did.


----------



## goldsaint13 (Nov 29, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> Giantbiceps you're full of hate but don't forget  Zoro sent Kaku back to the Zoo in EL and could've beaten Lucci according to an official databook



Well, the Databook says he's equal to Luffy in battle and maybe being able to barely defeat Lucci could be considered a direct consequence of this statement but there are some saying that even though Zoro was equal to Luffy, Luffy's body characteristics gave him the slight advantage to being able to resist Rokuogan! Honestly I don't know! In Thriller Bark Zoro resisted more than that but fighting Lucci is really deadly for Luffy and Zoro of these arcs... It would be something to see!



> And Enel is just whatever, current Zoro would give him the Monet treatment.



But also at the time Luffy did better only because he was impervious to lightning!



gold ace said:


> You are correct. But that's what you have to base it on, the feats that they have shown. You can't speculate in a versus match. I agree that if Zoro maybe would've shown his Asura, then Zoro might be equal to Luffy, or maybe even stronger. But we haven't seen it and is only speculation.



Of course but Zoro didn't even had a deadly fight yet in the post-timeskip! Wait for him to at least have one and then we could tell a bit more...

Actually in the pre-timeskip it was not during Enies Lobby when Zoro fought Kaku that was not Lucci's level that he had the chance to prove he was not inferior to Luffy... It was during Thriller Bark when he fought opponents much stronger than Lucci and he held his own... Oars is also Luffy in a way and he's very useful to compare! Of course for the pre-timeskip we have the Databook statement but also we have Zoro fighting deadly battles to have a show of his real best!



Erkan12 said:


> Lmao. Except Zoro didn't face with Lucci again, while Luffy did.



That's it and only in case Zoro would have done it resulting worse than Luffy you could have said Luffy > Zoro based on the Lucci argument.


----------



## HisMajestyMihawk (Nov 29, 2015)

goldsaint13 said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




This guy no diffed giantbiceps


----------



## Freechoice (Nov 29, 2015)

Kaiser said:


> 1- Asura is a stance
> 2- Kyutoryu is a different swords style
> 3- It was used as a defensive move(to dispatch Kaku's amanedachi)
> 4- And as an offensive move, with 2 different named attacks(Ichibugin & Makyusen)



Solid points bro


----------



## goldsaint13 (Nov 29, 2015)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> This guy no diffed giantbiceps







lol said:


> Solid points bro



Yes, indeed! 

Kyuutoryu Ashura is the fighting style while Ichibugin and Makyuusen are the attacks!


We might see "something Ichibugin" and "something Makyuusen" (advanced versions like Rengoku Oni Giri or Shi Shishi Sonson) as new more powerful variants of these attacks!


Or even some Kyuutoryu Ashura brand new special attacks!


 I imagined a full body Haki Zoro with Ashura resembling a real demonic statue!


----------



## Raiden34 (Nov 29, 2015)

Zoro only did this because of Luffy.



Zoro licks Luffy's ass.


----------



## goldsaint13 (Nov 29, 2015)

He may lick his ass as much as you like, this doesn't prevent him to match Luffy in combat! 


This is actually the true meaning of what Yellow Databook says you know...


Even though Zoro equals Luffy in battle he still accepts him as Captain and "works" under him.


----------



## gold ace (Nov 29, 2015)

goldsaint13 said:


> He may lick his ass as much as you like, this doesn't prevent him to match Luffy in combat!
> 
> 
> This is actually the true meaning of what Yellow Databook says you know...
> ...



Databooks aren't canon btw.


----------



## goldsaint13 (Nov 29, 2015)

gold ace said:


> Databooks aren't canon btw.



They are unless they didn't contradict the manga for no-spoiler reasons mostly (like Sabo's case) and this specific thing is never contradicted!

Databooks even give never named characters  a canon name. They are canon for the most part, save some detail!


----------



## gold ace (Nov 29, 2015)

goldsaint13 said:


> They are unless they didn't contradict the manga for no-spoiler reasons mostly (like Sabo's case) and this specific thing is never contradicted!
> 
> Databooks even give never named characters  a canon name. They are canon for the most part, save some detail!



They aren't though. They were made by Shueisha and Oda supervised it. It's as canon as movies and games are. Oda supervised movies, but the directors make them. Doesn't make them canon.


----------



## goldsaint13 (Nov 29, 2015)

gold ace said:


> They aren't though. They were made by Shueisha and Oda supervised it. It's as canon as movies and games are. Oda supervised movies, but the directors make them. Doesn't make them canon.



Some movies give informations and show events that are canon, the same as the Databooks! They couldn't give names for characters without Oda's approval! Of course they are not 100% correct as much as the semi-canon movies but the discriminant in the manga, is it doesn't contradict them, they are fine!


----------



## gold ace (Nov 29, 2015)

goldsaint13 said:


> Some movies give informations and show events that are canon, the same as the Databooks! They couldn't give names for characters without Oda's approval! Of course they are not 100% correct as much as the semi-canon movies but the discriminant in the manga, is it doesn't contradict them, they are fine!



Ya. Key word being "some" information. You say that the part where it says Zoro=Luffy is true. Its possibly. It was either stated to Shueisha by Oda, or Shueisha wrote that themselves. It's a 50/50 guess that your making. That's how almost all things are in the databooks, except for things that are already proven canon by the manga.

Tldr: Databooks are good, but not nearly as good as the manga. Not everything in there is reliable info.


----------



## goldsaint13 (Nov 29, 2015)

gold ace said:


> Ya. Key word being "some" information. You say that the part where it says Zoro=Luffy is true. Its possibly. It was either stated to Shueisha by Oda, or Shueisha wrote that themselves. It's a 50/50 guess that your making. That's how almost all things are in the databooks, except for things that are already proven canon by the manga.
> 
> Tldr: Databooks are good, but not nearly as good as the manga. Not everything in there is reliable info.



Well of course since we couldn't have a verification for every single info, I'd go with the idea that unless the manga says differently, an information given in the Databooks can be taken as good! Some character names given in the Databooks for example are canon because they are never named differently in the manga but some birth dates are negated by the SBS... It has to be taken case by case... Luffy = Zoro is never denied in the manga... It is a very rarely afforded subject in the manga but when it's afforded directly or indirectly nothing denies Luffy = Zoro so there's no reason to doubt it, at least for the arc or group of arcs the Databook refer to...


----------



## Magentabeard (Nov 29, 2015)

S1: Draw/Both die. 
S2: Zoro high difficulty.


----------



## giantbiceps (Nov 30, 2015)

Too many stupid people in this thread and that they don't listen to reason/mange facts 
But this will end the Zoro = Luffy and Zoro could've defeated Lucci 



*Zoro: ""*


----------



## Freechoice (Nov 30, 2015)

goldsaint13 said:


> Yes, indeed!



I was being sardonic


----------



## goldsaint13 (Nov 30, 2015)

giantbiceps said:


> Too many stupid people in this thread and that they don't listen to reason/mange facts



Beginning from you that still has to prove Luffy > Zoro since...................................... 1998!  



> But this will end the Zoro = Luffy and Zoro could've defeated Lucci



1) No one could prove if Zoro could defeat Lucci or not.

2) Even in case he couldn't, and we don't know if he could, this doesn't put him below Luffy in overall power, Lucci may just be more suited for Luffy (Ener case but to a lesser extent).




What does Zoro lack compared to Luffy so that you think he can't defeat Lucci?

Proved things please.


Forget things like Luffy has more power or such childish answers you could not prove even in a million years!


 *DEFINITELY NOT AN ORDINARY GUY.*



 See how Luffy is reduced and how Zoro is still fighting no problem after his fight... 
Someone who could put Luffy in the corner that way IS NOT AN ORDINARY GUY!!!  What a surprise! :sweat

 It's a bad idea to get involved in their fight *AND GET SEPARATED!*



*GET SEPARATED!*


 Ohhhhhhhhhhhh.................. So that's the risk........ Definitely a real one..........




Is the proof of Luffy > Zoro???  


Zoro saying that someone who almost killed Luffy is not ORDINARY and that they could lost the chance to escape the Buster Call if they would fight him??



   If these are your "proofs" I realize why you never being able to defeat me in 15 years about the Luffy = Zoro matter! 



lol said:


> I was being sardonic



 And I was not...


----------



## giantbiceps (Nov 30, 2015)

goldsaint13 said:


> *Beginning from you that still has to prove Luffy > Zoro since...................................... 1998!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've highlighted all the errors in red. 
Good luck next time


----------



## goldsaint13 (Nov 30, 2015)

giantbiceps said:


> I've highlighted all the errors in red.
> Good look next time



I just added a serious part................... If you are able to discuss it...


You want Luffy > Zoro so desperately?
Prove me how Luffy is stronger and in which aspects...


The only thing you will find will be versatility and adaptability to more opponents... His rubber  body makes him less vulnerable to many forms of damage (maybe even against Lucci for that matter) and his Devil Fruit grants him some skills Zoro doesn't have...

We have the most recent example: Pica!

Luffy and Zoro could have obliterated his real body the same way BUT Zoro needed help to reach it while Luffy could have done it on his own!

But their overall fighting power *IS EQUAL*! And I challenge you to prove otherwise!


 I don't know if you can take this serious discussion or if you are stuck to the previous bullshit!




But it's clear that you have no clue and have no choice but to go on with this because you know you have no chance against me on this matter!


----------



## giantbiceps (Nov 30, 2015)

goldsaint13 said:


> *I just added a serious part................... If you are able to discuss it...
> 
> 
> You want Luffy > Zoro so desperately?
> ...



This time, all the errors are highlighted in blue


----------



## goldsaint13 (Nov 30, 2015)

giantbiceps said:


> This time, all the errors are highlighted in blue



 You are really desperate... Don't worry, I'm suited to it since the beginning... 

Al the crosses on the cactus mountains of Whiskey Peak are graves for those wanting to say Luffy > Zoro and that met me..  Now you know why the equal fight between Luffy and Zoro happened there!


----------



## giantbiceps (Nov 30, 2015)

goldsaint13 said:


> You are really desperate... Don't worry, I'm suited to it since the beginning...
> 
> Al the crosses on the cactus mountains of Whiskey Peak are graves for those wanting to say Luffy > Zoro and that met me..  Now you know why the equal fight between Luffy and Zoro happened there!



Very short post this time ? Why don't you add in some more emotions ?


----------



## goldsaint13 (Nov 30, 2015)

giantbiceps said:


> Very short post this time ? Why don't you add in some more emotions ?



 Because I get more emotioned when there is at least a serious discussion on this subject, I have had many and with some interesting points too even though in the end the conclusion will always be Luffy = Zoro or at least the admission that there is no way to prove either way... But this time is too easy... Unsatisfactory...


----------



## giantbiceps (Nov 30, 2015)

goldsaint13 said:


> Because I get more emotioned when there is at least a serious discussion on this subject, I have had many and with some interesting points too even though in the end the conclusion will always be Luffy = Zoro or at least the admission that there is no way to prove either way... But this time is too easy... Unsatisfactory...



>Luffy = Zoro
>serious discussion


----------



## goldsaint13 (Nov 30, 2015)

giantbiceps said:


> >Luffy = Zoro
> >serious discussion



 I know it's so much evident that anyone trying to deny it would look like a clown... You gave a perfect example earlier!


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## giantbiceps (Nov 30, 2015)

goldsaint13 said:


> I know it's so much evident that anyone trying to deny it would look like a clown... You gave a perfect example earlier!



emotions = evidents


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## goldsaint13 (Nov 30, 2015)

giantbiceps said:


> emotions = evidents



 Nay... Emotions are just for fun... But the core of the subject remains the same!


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## giantbiceps (Nov 30, 2015)

goldsaint13 said:


> Nay... Emotions are just for fun... But *the core of the subject* remains the same!



Nay... The core of the subject is just for fun too


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## goldsaint13 (Nov 30, 2015)

giantbiceps said:


> Nay... The core of the subject is just for fun too



 It should be... But I'm kinda fanatic about this as you may have realized already! :sweat
But a bit of obsessive attitude helps to defeat common-places that are an evil thing and are often rooted in many people (luckily not all)!


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## giantbiceps (Nov 30, 2015)

goldsaint13 said:


> But a bit of obsessive attitude helps to defeat *common-places that are an evil thing and are often rooted in many people* (luckily not all)!



A very fitting description about yourself


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## Bernkastel (Nov 30, 2015)

People should just keep it simple instead of 7 pages of rumbling...
Hancock>Luffy>Zoro


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## goldsaint13 (Nov 30, 2015)

giantbiceps said:


> A very fitting description about yourself



You are the one saying that the main character/captain is the strongest only because you find it fitting that way, because you have no concrete battle proof of it and if you would have any it would be part of the topic already...
Only "who defeats who" arguments or those "main character = strongest with no equals" ones... If these are not common-places...............



Bernkastel said:


> People should just keep it simple instead of 7 pages of rumbling...
> Hancock>Luffy>Zoro



 Don't let your hormones fool you like common-places wouldn't be enough...

Current Luffy, Zoro and Hancock are in the same category but probably Luffy and Zoro are a bit stronger... In the pre-timeskip it was: Hancock >> Luffy = Zoro


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## giantbiceps (Nov 30, 2015)

goldsaint13 said:


> You are the one saying that the main character/captain is the strongest only because you find it fitting that way, because you have no concrete battle proof of it and if you would have any it would be part of the topic already...



Are you telling me that you have concrete battle proof of Zoro = Luffy ?


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## Kaiser (Nov 30, 2015)

Just leaving this here


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## goldsaint13 (Nov 30, 2015)

giantbiceps said:


> Are you telling me that you have concrete battle proof of Zoro = Luffy ?




*Spoiler*: __ 










Yes, it's very out of date and about a very early arc but tell me, do you have anything equivalent on your side?  Definitely NOT!


Wait for the next Luffy vs Zoro fight and hope Luffy will prove himself stronger...


If Grizzly Magnum would collide in the middle with Haki imbued Rengoku Oni Giri and Zoro will be thrown away you will be right...


Until then...



Kaiser said:


> Just leaving this here



 Yeah... The usual "Why isn't he the Captain?" thing in other words!


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## giantbiceps (Nov 30, 2015)

goldsaint13 said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I knew it (even expected to see this) 
Using a gag fight from 1999 as proof 

I also have concrete battle proofs that Nami > M3


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## goldsaint13 (Nov 30, 2015)

giantbiceps said:


> Using a gag fight from 1999 as proof




*Spoiler*: __ 









*KEYWORD:*


*SERIOUS*






In 1999 that happened...



Does something up to 2009 showed otherwise?



NO



You can hope for 2019, you may be lucky!


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## gold ace (Nov 30, 2015)

goldsaint13 said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



To me looks like a gag.

In 2009 feats showed otherwise.


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## giantbiceps (Nov 30, 2015)

goldsaint13 said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh, reach 2000 posts 

--------

If you think a gag fight is proof of Luffy = Zoro. Why don't you open a debate thread in "Ohara Library", that's where serious people debate 

I guarantee your thread will get deleted because of trolling


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## Bernkastel (Nov 30, 2015)

goldsaint13 said:


> Don't let your hormones fool you like common-places wouldn't be enough...
> 
> Current Luffy, Zoro and Hancock are in the same category but probably Luffy and Zoro are a bit stronger... In the pre-timeskip it was: Hancock >> Luffy = Zoro



Hancock would rape both Zoro and Luffy at the same using Salome as a dildo


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## Sherlōck (Nov 30, 2015)

giantbiceps on a roll.


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## goldsaint13 (Nov 30, 2015)

gold ace said:


> To me looks like a gag.



Before that moment and in the end it was a gag. The middle part is serious and shows they have equal power! It doesn't mean they would have tied in the long run but they were equal on a basis!



> In 2009 feats showed otherwise.



If they did, the topic would be closed but when Luffy had some apparently higher feats we didn't have Zoro counterpart to verify! 

Basically Enies Lobby feats seem to favor Luffy because Zoro has a too weak opponent to show his real value but he will do it immediately after in Thriller Bark arc...



giantbiceps said:


> If you think a gag fight is proof of Luffy = Zoro. Why don't you open a debate thread in "Ohara Library", that's where serious people debate
> 
> I guarantee your thread will get deleted because of trolling



I didn't know! I thought this was the sole section for power confrontations between characters but it's absolutely fine, the matter is serious even though Oda avoids any question on the monster trio power comparisons to avoid fans complaining probably! He tries to treat them fairly and he even gave an Haki specialization for each! 

Anyway that brief SERIOUS moment of their fight shows them equal at the time, the only way to state them equal later on is by Databook but if Databook is not totally trusted it doesn's mean that they are not equal, it means that it's like in the post-timeskip, there is no proof to determine who's stronger if any at all! The status of the subject as of today is this one!
Besides Databook statement there is nothing to prove either Luffy = Zoro or Luffy > Zoro for the arcs following Alabasta! It's all based on assumptions if not counting the Databook!



Bernkastel said:


> Hancock would rape both Zoro and Luffy at the same using Salome as a dildo



 Fine as long as she would rape them EQUALLY! Hahahaha


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Nov 30, 2015)

Giantbiceps is certainly a higher caliber troll than scrub haters like Erkan12 and goldace, I will give him that


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## giantbiceps (Nov 30, 2015)

goldsaint13 said:


> I didn't know! I thought this was the sole section for power confrontations between characters but it's absolutely fine, the matter is serious even though Oda avoids any question on the monster trio power comparisons to avoid fans complaining probably! He tries to treat them fairly and he even gave an Haki specialization for each!
> 
> Anyway that brief SERIOUS moment of their fight shows them equal at the time, the only way to state them equal later on is by Databook but if Databook is not totally trusted it doesn's mean that they are not equal, it means that it's like in the post-timeskip, there is no proof to determine who's stronger if any at all! The status of the subject as of today is this one!
> Besides Databook statement there is nothing to prove either Luffy = Zoro or Luffy > Zoro for the arcs following Alabasta! It's all based on assumptions if not counting the Databook!



Sigh, how many time do i have to tell people that Oda didn't give infomatino about power level/ tier like that in the databook 

The only legit info you get from Oda in those databooks are stuff like age/heigh/boobs sizes/farvorite foods/birthdays....... 

Go to AP forums, ask Greg, Aohige, Redon....they will tell you that same thing.



HisMajestyMihawk said:


> Giantbiceps is certainly a higher caliber troll than scrub haters like Erkan12 and goldace, I will give him that



Why do you name yourself HisMajestyMihawk and why do you hate Shanks ?......Oh, wait.....


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## gold ace (Nov 30, 2015)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> Giantbiceps is certainly a higher caliber troll than scrub haters like Erkan12 and goldace, I will give him that



What are you on about. I dont eve try to troll lmao O.O

Would you like to see me try?


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Nov 30, 2015)

gold ace said:


> What are you on about. I dont eve try to troll lmao O.O
> 
> Would you like to see me try?


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## gold ace (Nov 30, 2015)

I'm assuming that's a yes then.

Expect some shit about to go down between ya boi Jura Hercule and I.


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## Etherborn (Dec 1, 2015)

Pretty much everyone on this forum is a troll nowadays. And on top of that, either a pot or a kettle.


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## Elite Uchiha (Dec 1, 2015)

Luffy wins with high (mid) to high (high) difficultly.


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