# Kaido vs Shanks



## YonkoDrippy (May 11, 2021)

Who wins?


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## JIELDRETTO (May 11, 2021)

unclear as of now

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1


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## oiety (May 11, 2021)

Shanks extreme diff.

Reactions: Like 2


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## TheNirou (May 11, 2021)

Kaido extreme diff.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## The crazy hacker (May 11, 2021)

Can go either way extreme diff.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (May 11, 2021)

Dunno since we've never seen what Shanks can do.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Nikseng (May 11, 2021)

Kaido on the lower end of extreme diff.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## trance (May 11, 2021)

kaido extreme diff for now

im on that train that shanks will accumulate better feats and/or hype tho

Reactions: Like 2


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## Red Admiral (May 11, 2021)

the ONLY 2 times Oda compared them to each other , Shanks got the better hype
Shanks and Prime Teach are end game not Kaido


it's fair to say Kaido ... but Oda always plays in favor of team Shanks

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 5


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## demonkiller123 (May 11, 2021)

Another pointless thread, we have no idea how strong Shanks is as a Yonko.

We know he had epic duels with Mihawk, clashed with an Pre-MF Whitebeard. He stopped an attack from Akainu and stopped the war. Kaido considers him in his top five.

I would go with Shanks, or rather I hope shanks is the strongest Yonko but it’s unclear.

Again pointless thread until we actually see him in a fight.


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## Sablés (May 11, 2021)

I give Kaido the benefit of the doubt but I won't be the slightest bit surprised if Shanks turns out stronger.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 5


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## A Optimistic (May 11, 2021)

Kaido wins due to his rumoured title.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## LordVinsmoke (May 11, 2021)

WSC= Kaido so hes the strongest Kaido Extreme Diffs him

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Velocity (May 11, 2021)

Shanks wins, I’m sure of it. He stopped Kaido going to Marineford, which is kinda huge given what we’ve seen Kaido can do and there is no way you can convince me that Kaido held back or something. Unless they met on an island somewhere, as well, Shanks successfully sent Kaido flying back to Wano *while he was standing on a boat*. That’s bonkers.

Besides, Shanks’ bounty is only a little lower than Kaido’s despite being practically harmless. How high would his bounty go if he actually did as much bad stuff as Kaido or Big Mom?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## TheWiggian (May 11, 2021)

Shanks already won once off-panel while big boy crydo cried himself to sleep after trying to join the war of the best.

Reactions: Funny 7 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## MYJC (May 11, 2021)

I'd give Kaido the benefit of the doubt. 

He has a higher bounty, and it's not like anybody ever said "If it's one on one, Shanks always wins".

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Ruse (May 11, 2021)

Could go either way


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## Eustathios (May 11, 2021)

Kaido gets the benefit of the doubt for now.


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## TheWiggian (May 11, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> Kaido gets the benefit of the doubt for now.



Oh please. Based on what?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Eustathios (May 11, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Oh please. Based on what?



Title aka in-verse hype.


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## TheWiggian (May 11, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> Title aka in-verse hype.



The toughest guy in the world? When we know there is a Diamond guy around?

Reactions: Funny 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Velocity (May 11, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> Title aka in-verse hype.


I really think people put too much stock into these titles. World’s strongest [insert noun here] doesn’t really mean anything when there are bound to be many characters who aren’t interested in contesting the title. I mean, Whitebeard was called the “World’s Strongest Man” even before Roger died, despite the fact we know there were several characters equal to him and some possibly stronger than him. Obviously, though, the title of World’s Strongest Man is irrelevant to someone like Roger or Garp, so they’d just let him have it without fighting him for it.


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## ShadoLord (May 11, 2021)

Shanks drove the dumb dragon away before

he's got a handle on him

trust him

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3 | Optimistic 1


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## Canute87 (May 11, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> Who wins?


Everybody who Kaido placed above luffy's head *should *be greater than him.

Rocks was there, Whitebeard was there, Roger was there,  Oden was there, Shanks was there.

So if either beats either it's definitely extreme difficulty on either side.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Sablés (May 11, 2021)

Velocity said:


> I really think people put too much stock into these titles. World’s strongest [insert noun here] doesn’t really mean anything when there are bound to be many characters who aren’t interested in contesting the title. I mean, Whitebeard was called the “World’s Strongest Man” even before Roger died, despite the fact we know there were several characters equal to him and some possibly stronger than him. Obviously, though, the title of World’s Strongest Man is irrelevant to someone like Roger or Garp, so they’d just let him have it without fighting him for it.





TheWiggian said:


> The toughest guy in the world? When we know there is a Diamond guy around?


World's strongest creature is a power play, and the atmosphere of OP's world is all about power dynamics. Shanks is a Yonkou. There is no way that people aren't aware of his power unless he explicitly hides it. Considering he used to shake the grand line with Mihawk, that's unlikely, and you could make the same argument for Kaido himself anyway. There was an entire war broadcasted where admirals, shichibukai, commanders and Whitebeard himself showcased their powers. Years later, Kaido is believed to be the strongest. In a world filled with monsters, you don't rumor "In a 1 vs 1, always bet on Kaido" if there isn't damn good reason to think this guy stands above the others. For that reason, Kaido deserves the benefit of the doubt, until proven otherwise.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 2 | Optimistic 1


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## CaptainCommander (May 11, 2021)

Could go either way as of now. Neither needs to hide behind a title. Both are only surpassed by Imu.


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## Red Admiral (May 12, 2021)

Velocity said:


> Shanks wins, I’m sure of it. He stopped Kaido going to Marineford, which is kinda huge given what we’ve seen Kaido can do and there is no way you can convince me that Kaido held back or something. Unless they met on an island somewhere, as well, Shanks successfully sent Kaido flying back to Wano *while he was standing on a boat*. That’s bonkers.
> 
> Besides, Shanks’ bounty is only a little lower than Kaido’s despite being practically harmless. How high would his bounty go if he actually did as much bad stuff as Kaido or Big Mom?



in terms of bounty

Kaido and Big Mom were active important pirates since BEFORE Shanks was born
Shanks HATES pointless wars
Gorosei is 100% aware that Shanks don't have world conquests' ambition
Shanks is not a man who harm people

*so relative to his age , Shanks might have one highest bounty ever 
cause keep in mind, Whitebeard in age +40 wasn't even a great pirates *

*Whitebeard , Big Mom and Kaido SURLY didn't had a bounty NEAR 4 Bil*


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## Kylo Ren (May 12, 2021)

Kaido for now.


Later on, it's Shanks time.


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## Mihawk (May 12, 2021)

Shanks, extreme diff.

His time will come..

Reactions: Like 1


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## Eustathios (May 12, 2021)

Velocity said:


> I really think people put too much stock into these titles. World’s strongest [insert noun here] doesn’t really mean anything when there are bound to be many characters who aren’t interested in contesting the title. I mean, Whitebeard was called the “World’s Strongest Man” even before Roger died, despite the fact we know there were several characters equal to him and some possibly stronger than him. Obviously, though, the title of World’s Strongest Man is irrelevant to someone like Roger or Garp, so they’d just let him have it without fighting him for it.



That part comes from the novel. In the manga, it doesn't say he had the title before. The info boxes are the author's word on the OP world.


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## Corax (May 12, 2021)

Shanks is saved for EOS. This alone is enough for me. Also he is in Kaido's tier list.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Funny 4 | Winner 1


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## Peppoko (May 12, 2021)

Hard to say, could go either way with extreme-diff. For now I'm team Shanks until we've seen more of him.


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## Perrin (May 12, 2021)

Shanks has a bad track record against fish.

Reactions: Funny 7


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## Richard Lionheart (May 12, 2021)

I dont think Shanks can beat Kaido. He can hurt him however, which is a big achievement in Kaidos eyes.


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## YonkoDrippy (May 12, 2021)

Canute87 said:


> Everybody who Kaido placed above luffy's head *should *be greater than him.
> 
> Rocks was there, Whitebeard was there, Roger was there,  Oden was there, Shanks was there.
> 
> So if either beats either it's definitely extreme difficulty on either side.


That didn’t really answer my question but ok

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Dunno (May 12, 2021)

Shanks obviously wins.

Reactions: Like 6 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Van Basten (May 12, 2021)

Shanks extreme diff (mid level.)

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Canute87 (May 12, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> That didn’t really answer my question but ok


All i'm saying is that the people who kaido compared luffy to in terms of greatness 3 of them are stronger than him, one gave him his worse scar to date.

it doesn't make much sense  for Kaido to put Shanks in with them if Shanks was someone he could comfortably beat. 

It's basically extreme difficulty from either side going off kaido's perception because shanks has no feats.


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## Perrin (May 12, 2021)

Corax said:


> Shanks is saved for EOS. This alone is enough for me. Also he is in Kaido's tier list.


Love this comment.
‘Kaido’s tier list’ would make a funny thread

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Captain Altintop (May 12, 2021)

Shanks beats Kaido with *extreme *(_high_) difficulty after roughly 8-10 days.

Most people in the OPverse never saw Shanks fighting. He is just not making any fuss and is rather calm which makes him look much less of a "Beast" as the monstrous huge Kaido. But don't be fooled about Shanks, he will reveal his real abilities sooner or later. Don't worry guys.

I see them as equals more or less, btw ... I can also live with Shanks >=< Kaido depending on own preference.


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## Mihawk (May 12, 2021)

Kaido seems to think that Shanks could potentially beat him. 

This goes either way but still results in a bloodbath.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## TheMoffinMan (May 12, 2021)

Kaido being known as the strongest creature gives him the benefit of the doubt against all the known quantities, such as Shanks, Mihawk, Akainu etc.
Out of a 100 fights I'd give 55 to Kaido for now.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Optimistic 1


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## lastkiller (May 15, 2021)

So are we gonna ignore that shanks hurt kaido before ( the images that appeared behind luffy in the manga) but didn’t give him any scar.....and despite Kaido fighting all those people only oden and zoro have given him scars


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## Mythical Conqueror (May 15, 2021)

Kaido extreme difficulty

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ezekjuninor (May 15, 2021)

I’d favour Kaidou over anyone rn, better feats and greater hype than Shanks.


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## Duhul10 (May 15, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> The toughest guy in the world? When we know there is a Diamond guy around?


WSP and above Akainu ( confirmed by Oda )


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## Duhul10 (May 15, 2021)

Kaido was confirmed to be WSP by 2 dudes who actually took a shot at RH.


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## TheWiggian (May 15, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> WSP and above Akainu ( confirmed by Oda )



How does the WSP give him any leverage over a marine?

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Perrin (May 15, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Kaido was confirmed to be WSP by 2 dudes who actually took a shot at RH.


Fair point!
How many limbs have they lost against BM and Kaido vs RH so far?


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## Duhul10 (May 15, 2021)

Perrin said:


> Fair point!
> How many limbs have they lost against BM and Kaido vs RH so far?


How many limbs has shanks lost against Mihawk vs East blue Beast so far ?

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Perrin (May 15, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> How many limbs has shanks lost against Mihawk vs East blue Beast so far ?


Ah cmon friend laugh along, it was a humourous comment with an ounce of truth


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## Duhul10 (May 15, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> How does the WSP give him any leverage over a marine?


he is confirmed as the WSP
and at the same time he is confirmed as above Akainu
Do I need to draw it for you to understand ?

Reactions: Disagree 2


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## Duhul10 (May 15, 2021)

Perrin said:


> Ah cmon friend laugh along, it was a humourous comment with an ounce of truth


so was mine


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## TheWiggian (May 15, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> he is confirmed as the WSP
> and at the same time he is confirmed as above Akainu
> Do I need to draw it for you to understand ?



Oh you mean the gag SBS 

But you know too well that Oda rather see Sakazuki as the Pirate King right? While Kaido remains the mere yonko


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## Duhul10 (May 15, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Oh you mean the gag SBS
> 
> But you know too well that Oda rather see Sakazuki as the Pirate King right? While Kaido remains the mere yonko


Yeah, the SBS where Oda made a point about his rankings of the strongest in the verse, that one.

Idgaf about what and how Oda would see Clifford if he was the MC, I only care about the fact that he is weaker than Kaido

Reactions: Funny 1


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## TheWiggian (May 15, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Yeah, the SBS where Oda made a point about his rankings of the strongest in the verse, that one.
> 
> Idgaf about what and how Oda would see Clifford if he was the MC, I only care about the fact that he is weaker than Kaido



It's ok because PK is the epithome of the story which Kaido will never reach, but Oda literally confirms Sakazuki could.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Duhul10 (May 15, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> It's ok because PK is the epithome of the story which Kaido will never reach, but Oda literally confirms Sakazuki could.


Sakazuki could if he was the MC, yes, imagine starting your journey by being admiral level and add plot armor to that. Maybe if he was the MC, he'd be stronger than Kaido, yeah, I can give you that.


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## TheWiggian (May 15, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Sakazuki could if he was the MC, yes, imagine starting your journey by being admiral level and add plot armor to that. Maybe if he was the MC, he'd be stronger than Kaido, yeah, I can give you that.



Imagine not using a pirate for an example of who could become the PK?

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Shunsuiju (May 15, 2021)

My favorite, really close matches that people get really emotional over but could really go either way.

How about they both knock each other out


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## Duhul10 (May 15, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Imagine not using a pirate for an example of who could become the PK?


Imagine telling a fan who was enthusiastic about Akainu that Kaido is stronger than he is

Reactions: Funny 1 | Lewd 2


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## Shunsuiju (May 15, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Imagine telling a fan who was enthusiastic about Akainu that Kaido is stronger than he is


I'm sure that fan would bring up the fact that Akainu is being saved for end game while Kaido is about go down

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## TheWiggian (May 15, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Imagine telling a fan who was enthusiastic about Akainu that Kaido is stronger than he is



You still cannot get over the fact that Sakazuki murdered Kaido's superior? Jesus it's been like a decade

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Duhul10 (May 15, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> I'm sure that fan would bring up the fact that Akainu is being saved for end game while Kaido is about go down


Roger died more than 20 years ago, Rocks even more so. Is Akainu above them as well ? 
Also poor Kizaru, knowing that chronology fought against him and CC ended up above him...


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## Duhul10 (May 15, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> You still cannot get over the fact that Sakazuki murdered Kaido's superior? Jesus it's been like a decade


trying to change the subject...not gonna work against me  I'm immune to pityful attempts like these


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## Shunsuiju (May 15, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Roger died more than 20 years ago, Rocks even more so. Is Akainu above them as well ?
> Also poor Kizaru, knowing that chronology fought against him and CC ended up above him...


Oh, the sweet, sweet denial   

Rocks and Roger are not villains of Luffy. Kizaru is still around.


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## TheWiggian (May 15, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> trying to change the subject...not gonna work against me  I'm immune to pityful attempts like these



Changing subject, Iam quite sure we didn't go anywhere from Yonko and Sakazuki 

Do you hear that? Whenever yonko strength is discussed, Sakazuki is among them? 

Could he be the lurking legend?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Duhul10 (May 15, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Oh, the sweet, sweet denial
> 
> Rocks and Roger are not villains of Luffy. Kizaru is still around.


So now from villains ( which Rocks was, for the entire world at that time ), we only go to Villains of Luffy and moreover, only if they die, they are inferior to the next one. Kizaru had his arc. It was before CC's...sorry... chronology doesn't work in OP


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## Shunsuiju (May 15, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> So now from villains ( which Rocks was, for the entire world at that time ), we only go to Villains of Luffy and moreover, only if they die, they are inferior to the next one. Kizaru had his arc. It was before CC's...sorry... chronology doesn't work in OP


Luffy will be stronger when he defeats Akainu than when he defeats Kaido. Sucks to suck fish-kun


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## Perrin (May 15, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Luffy will be stronger when he defeats Akainu than when he defeats Kaido. Sucks to suck fish-kun


Everyone always thinks luffy will defeat akainu, when robin has much more beef with him.


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## Duhul10 (May 15, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Luffy will be stronger when he defeats Akainu than when he defeats Kaido. Sucks to suck fish-kun


Sucks to tell you that all you've got is an assumption. You're optimistic to actually count Akainu as an arc villain, where there are people with much greater importance than he has. Kaido's been taking shots left and right the entire arc, his ally started clearing house for his enemies and the MC has slight chances to solo. 
I'll laugh so hard when I'll see Luffy pass Akainu to Sabo

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Shunsuiju (May 15, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> I'll laugh so hard when I'll see Luffy pass Akainu to Sabo


*I'm* the optimistic one


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## Duhul10 (May 15, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> *I'm* the optimistic one


fire < Lava pre-skip
brother comes to show him wrong. Sooo, sooo unrealistic   meanwhile guys like BB and Imu tower above Akainu in terms of importance.


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## Shunsuiju (May 15, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> fire < Lava pre-skip
> brother comes to show him wrong. Sooo, sooo unrealistic   meanwhile guys like BB and Imu tower above Akainu in terms of importance.




Seriously, what's with fish fans and Imu. 
Must be a naruto or bleach reference


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## Duhul10 (May 15, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Seriously, what's with fish fans and Imu.
> Must be a naruto or bleach reference


Wow, Luffy's mad at Akainu, Akainu FV confirmed  The mad dog is in a tight leash. There are interests above him.


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## Shunsuiju (May 15, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Wow, Luffy's mad at Akainu, Akainu FV confirmed  The mad dog is in a tight leash. There are interests above him.


You know who's not the FV? Kaido.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Duhul10 (May 15, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> You know who's not the FV? Kaido.


I know, I also know Akainu isn't. But you want to know something more ? Akainu won't even be an arc main villain, but tell no one I told you this

Reactions: Like 3


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## Shunsuiju (May 15, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> I know, I also know Akainu isn't. But you want to know something more ? Akainu won't even be an arc villain, but tell no one I told you this


Caeser Clown, Hody Jones, Jack the Drought. These are all arc villains.


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## Duhul10 (May 15, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Caeser Clown, Hody Jones, Jack the Drought. These are all arc villains.


Yes, as they were alone, no other actual menaces aside from them during their arc. Akainu's arc, won't be his, it will be the WG arc, where he'll only be a piece of the puzzle.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Shunsuiju (May 15, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Yes, as they were alone, no other actual menaces aside from them during their arc. Akainu's arc, won't be his, it will be the WG arc, where he'll only be a piece of the puzzle.


And Luffy's main fight?


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## Duhul10 (May 15, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> And Luffy's main fight?


Im, Gorosei, who knows, he might have to get through Akainu to get to them, we'll see.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Perrin (May 15, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Im, Gorosei, who knows, he might have to get through Akainu to get to them, we'll see.


Akainu could be his Blueno

Reactions: Funny 3 | Winner 2


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## Duhul10 (May 15, 2021)

Perrin said:


> Akainu could be his Blueno


I see potential in him to reach that status

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Lee-Sensei (May 15, 2021)

I voted for Kaido, but it can go either way extreme diff.


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## Lee-Sensei (May 15, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> I see potential in him to reach that status


Akainu killed his brother and broke his will. He’s the only person that did that. It defies all narrative logic to have him be a warm up villain like Kaido.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## convict (May 15, 2021)

I knew there would be some people who would pick Shanks despite no evidence that he is the strongest Yonkou let alone the strongest in the world but this poll is too close

Reactions: Like 2


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## trance (May 15, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> I'll laugh so hard when I'll see Luffy pass Akainu to Sabo



luffy can oneshot/offpanel akainu and it'd still make me happier than sabo fighting akainu

its literal trash writing if akainu's only upcoming major fight is against sabo

Reactions: Like 1


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## Lee-Sensei (May 15, 2021)

convict said:


> I knew there would be some people who would pick Shanks despite no evidence that he is the strongest Yonkou let alone the strongest in the world but this poll is too close


People think that he’s Rogers heir. I think that’s what it’s about. I personally place the Emperors, Admirals, Mihawk and Dragon at the same level. But if any of the Emperors is stronger, I’d bet on Kaido. He has the most hype about him right now.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## trance (May 16, 2021)

i mean, oda's never been a great writer but i give him more credit than that


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## IHateAnnoyingJerks (May 16, 2021)

How can Shanks be stronger than Kaido?  Kaido should have better durability and has a DF.  Shanks is probably the weakest Yonko.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Shunsuiju (May 16, 2021)

convict said:


> I knew there would be some people who would pick Shanks despite no evidence that he is the strongest Yonkou let alone the strongest in the world but this poll is too close


What evidence is there that Kaido is the strongest? That was Whitebeard's seat.


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## Duhul10 (May 16, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> What evidence is there that Kaido is the strongest? That was Whitebeard's seat.


Immense evidence...


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## Shunsuiju (May 16, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Immense evidence...


Was Kaido the strongest pirate when Whitebeard was about?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Duhul10 (May 16, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Was Kaido the strongest pirate when Whitebeard was about?


When he was Primebeard, probably not  afterwards, when WB's condition was unknown to the world, yes.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 2


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## Turrin (May 16, 2021)

Kaidou comparing him to Oden who blitz stomped him, makes me believe Shanks wins: the fact that their encountered ended with Kaidou cucking down to Shanks, doesn’t help his odds ether

Reactions: Like 3 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Duhul10 (May 16, 2021)

Kaido is still in front of the Admiral/Shanks/Mihawk gang, geesh, it's going to be a tough fight.


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## TheWiggian (May 16, 2021)

Looks like people are coming to their senses

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Mihawk (May 16, 2021)

Poll becoming more balanced as it should be

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Duhul10 (May 16, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> Poll becoming more balanced as it should be


Kaido is fighting 3 fanbases and is still in front. It would be balanced if Shanks was in front by a landslide


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## Mihawk (May 16, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Kaido is fighting 3 fanbases and is still in front. It would be balanced if Shanks was in front by a landslide


He's got the BM fanbase on his side actually. 

If Shanks was in front of a landslide, then


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## Duhul10 (May 16, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> He's got the BM fanbase on his side actually.
> 
> If Shanks was in front of a landslide, then


BM fanbase...like @MO and @RossellaFiamingo  ? 2 votes
 all other top tier gangs are against Kaido because all the others interacted between one another so they can scale after and put their favourite character above Kaido. The fact that Kaido who has a small fanbase is still in front in spite of fighting against huge adversity, means a lot.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mihawk (May 16, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> all other top tier gangs are against Kaido because all the others interacted between one another so they can scale after and put their favourite character above Kaido. The fact that Kaido who has a small fanbase is still in front in spite of fighting against huge adversity, means a lot.



If you say so bro. I don't know about others, I just do me...I don't think Kaido's the goat or current #1. I don't think there's a person who's definitively the strongest right now, or has taken Whitebeard's throne. Kaido's top 4 in my eyes fosho. You also have a lot of people who rate Kaido higher because they rate Luffy higher..personally, fanbases mean nothing imo. Everyone has a bias.

Reactions: Neutral 1


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## Duhul10 (May 16, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> If you say so bro. I don't know about others, I just do me...I don't think Kaido's the goat or current #1. I don't think there's a person who's definitively the strongest right now, or has taken Whitebeard's throne. Kaido's top 4 in my eyes fosho. You also have a lot of people who rate Kaido higher because they rate Luffy higher..personally, fanbases mean nothing imo. *Everyone has a bias*.


Exactly, though for some it is showing, for other it is not. I mean when I say Kaido>Shanks, I have enough to back it up ( Killer statement, Ace novel, Kaido's titles and so on), when you say Shanks>Kaido, there is barely any proof of that, however when I see your profile pic, I'll immediately understand the reasoning behind the decision ? Capische ?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mihawk (May 16, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Exactly, though for some it is showing, for other it is not. I mean when I say Kaido>Shanks, I have enough to back it up ( Killer statement, Ace novel, Kaido's titles and so on), when you say Shanks>Kaido, there is barely any proof of that, however when I see your profile pic, I'll immediately understand the reasoning behind the decision ? Capische ?



See? Your bias is showing. 

And you can assume whatever reasoning you want from my profile pic or username, it means nothing

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Duhul10 (May 16, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> See? Your bias is showing.
> 
> And you can assume whatever reasoning you want from my profile pic or username, it means nothing


It doesn't matter what it means or it doesn't mean to you. I am not trying to make it matter to you, I just tried to make you understand a simple reasoning.

Saying it mattered to you would mean admitting to what I say. Admitting what another one says is a rare feat here.


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## Mihawk (May 16, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> It doesn't matter what it means or it doesn't mean to you. I am not trying to make it matter to you, I just tried to make you understand a simple reasoning.


Nice. But perhaps I'm too stupid, because I don't understand


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## Duhul10 (May 16, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> Nice. But perhaps I'm too stupid, because I don't understand


Nah, it was too simple for you not to. It's the necessary will that you're lacking

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Mihawk (May 16, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> however when I see your profile pic, I'll immediately understand the reasoning behind the decision ? Capische ?





Duhul10 said:


> Saying it mattered to you would mean admitting to what I say. Admitting what another one says is a rare feat here.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Eustathios (May 16, 2021)

Rayleigh in his "I could fight an Admiral and save the Strawhats" years would murk both.


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## LightningForce (May 16, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> Rayleigh in his "I could fight an Admiral and save the Strawhats" years would murk both.



Kizaru overrated. His kick could only kill Zoro in a heavily injured state already.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Lewd 1


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## Gotenks92 (May 17, 2021)

Kaido wins. The ones who formed an alliance to beat Shanks called Kaido the strongest pirate not to mention he is the strongest creature


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## Ushiromiya Battler (May 17, 2021)

In a 1 vs 1 fight, always bet on Kaido...

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Quipchaque (May 17, 2021)

Shanks.


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## Quipchaque (May 17, 2021)

Ezekjuninor said:


> I’d favour Kaidou over anyone rn, better feats and *greater hype* than Shanks.

Reactions: Like 3 | Tier Specialist 1


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## TheWiggian (May 17, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> He's got the BM fanbase on his side actually.
> 
> If Shanks was in front of a landslide, then



Just look how many dupes voted for kaido lol i easily count 10

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Quipchaque (May 17, 2021)

Ebitan said:


> In a 1 vs 1 fight, always bet on Kaido...



Sorry but the likes of Shanks and Dragon don't care who you want to bet on. They will literally say "in a 1on1 bet on me" Instead by beating the living shit out of Kaido regardless.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Ushiromiya Battler (May 17, 2021)

Quipchaque said:


> Sorry but the likes of Shanks and Dragon don't care who you want to bet on. They will literally say "in a 1on1 bet on me" Instead by beating the living shit out of Kaido regardless.


Tell that to Oda, he was the one who wrote that statement, not me.


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## Eustathios (May 17, 2021)

Ebitan said:


> Tell that to Oda, he was the one who wrote that statement, not me.


He wrote if it's 1 on 1 _people say_ always bet on Kaido, but whatever.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Ezekjuninor (May 17, 2021)

Quipchaque said:


>


Yes being known as the World's Strongest Creature and 1v1 king is greater hype than "the man who lost his arm to a fish".

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Ushiromiya Battler (May 17, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> He wrote if it's 1 on 1 _people say_ always bet on Kaido, but whatever.


Don't see how two grammatically complementary words discredit the main idea behind the sentence. Otherwise what would it be? _Animals say_ always bet on Kaido?_ Girls say_ always bet one Kaido? _Confucius says_ always bet on Kaido? _John Cena says_ always bet on Kaido? _People say_ comes from a narrative standpoint, otherwise Oda would be breaking the fourth wall.


Let's look at the main idea behind the sentence and not be distracted by semantics.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Eustathios (May 17, 2021)

Ebitan said:


> Don't see how two grammatically complementary words discredit the main idea behind the sentence. Otherwise what would it be? _Animals say_ always bet on Kaido?_ Girls say_ always bet one Kaido? _Confucius says_ always bet on Kaido? _John Cena says_ always bet on Kaido? _People say_ comes from a narrative standpoint, otherwise Oda would be breaking the fourth wall.
> 
> 
> Let's look at the main idea behind the sentence and not be distracted by semantics.


No, it's not about semantics. Oda introduced him with the title _known as_ the Strongest Creature too, something he did not do with Whitebeard and Mihawk so it was clearly intentional. It reflects in-verse hype rather than an author's official title.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ushiromiya Battler (May 17, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> No, it's not about semantics. Oda introduced him with the title _known as_ the Strongest Creature too, something he did not do with Whitebeard and Mihawk so it was clearly intentional. It reflects in-verse hype rather than an author's official title.


Tbh Oda has no official statements. Everything is in verse hype if you think about it since all these titles are given by in-verse characters since Oda does not break fourth walls. So in  a way Oda delivers his intentions through the mouth of his in-verse characters, even those titles of WB and Mihawk.

Unless Oda states it clearly in an interview, it is still in-verse titles and hype.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Quipchaque (May 17, 2021)

Ebitan said:


> Tell that to Oda, he was the one who wrote that statement, not me.



And he was also the one who said 

*D:* *Pleased to meet you, Oda-chi! Heso!! I'll try to make this quick, but... I noticed a certain one of Oda-chi's policies? Or is it poliswees?!! Oda-chi... you don't seem to write lines in your own handwriting on the side as supplements to character's speech bubbles!? Other manga-ka do it a lot, but... please explain this for me!! Penname- Myaari*

O: Ohh. Yes. Lines written in speech bubbles vs. lines written outside them- good job noticing. I did the latter back when I was a newbie and even during the early days of serialization. But I made the conscious decision to stop doing that relatively early on, so you could call it a policy. Of course I don't mind it if other authors do it, but I thought that if I did that, *the reader might see my handwritten characters while reading and suddenly become aware that there is an "author", so I stopped. While reading my manga, I want you to forget about my existence.*


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## LaniDani (May 17, 2021)

Shanks.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Ushiromiya Battler (May 17, 2021)

Quipchaque said:


> And he was also the one who said
> 
> *D:* *Pleased to meet you, Oda-chi! Heso!! I'll try to make this quick, but... I noticed a certain one of Oda-chi's policies? Or is it poliswees?!! Oda-chi... you don't seem to write lines in your own handwriting on the side as supplements to character's speech bubbles!? Other manga-ka do it a lot, but... please explain this for me!! Penname- Myaari*
> 
> O: Ohh. Yes. Lines written in speech bubbles vs. lines written outside them- good job noticing. I did the latter back when I was a newbie and even during the early days of serialization. But I made the conscious decision to stop doing that relatively early on, so you could call it a policy. Of course I don't mind it if other authors do it, but I thought that if I did that, *the reader might see my handwritten characters while reading and suddenly become aware that there is an "author", so I stopped. While reading my manga, I want you to forget about my existence.*


And? Your point is?


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## Quipchaque (May 17, 2021)

Ebitan said:


> And? Your point is?



That "Oda Wrote that" Is meaningless for our Argument. Oda also Wrote Pica's Statement regarding Fujitora you know...


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## Ushiromiya Battler (May 17, 2021)

Quipchaque said:


> That "Oda Wrote that" Is meaningless for our Argument. Oda also Wrote Pica's Statement regarding Fujitora you know...


Well then you should argue with the Marines then, since it was they who issued the statement. I am merely quoting from the Marines in One Piece. Afterall you understand about the Pirates more than the in-verse Marines ye?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Dunno (May 17, 2021)

convict said:


> I knew there would be some people who would pick Shanks despite no evidence that he is the strongest Yonkou let alone the strongest in the world but this poll is too close


He has way more hype than Kaido, and much greater improtance to the story. He and Blackbeard have been set up as the two top Yonkou, with Kaido and Big Mom fighting for scraps. Kaido thought of him when he thought of people that could defeat him. He's friends with the Gorosei. He is a rival of the only character alive with a strongest title. All Kaido has is a title that Oda has clearly and consistently avoided disambiguousizing.

Reactions: Winner 3 | Dislike 1


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## Rob (May 17, 2021)



Reactions: Winner 3


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## Quipchaque (May 17, 2021)

Ebitan said:


> Well then you should argue with the Marines then, since it was they who issued the statement. I am merely quoting from the Marines in One Piece. Afterall you understand about the Pirates more than the in-verse Marines ye?



My goodness how naive can you be? It does not matter what the Marines say... Think for yourself! What logic is there in clinging to "Marines say" When Shanks is still portrayed like an unstoppable Rockstar? Do you honestly believe that Shanks would lose against Kaido because another character says so? Or just because Shanks is featless..?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Ushiromiya Battler (May 17, 2021)

Quipchaque said:


> My goodness how naive can you be? It does not matter what the Marines say... Think for yourself! What logic is there in clinging to "Marines say" When Shanks is still portrayed like an unstoppable Rockstar? Do you honestly believe that Shanks would lose against Kaido because another character says so? Or just because Shanks is featless..?


I mean Shanks had one feat...which was getting his left arm chowed by a fish that Luffy one-shotted in the same chapter.. so

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## TheWiggian (May 17, 2021)

Ebitan said:


> I mean Shanks had one feat...which was getting his left arm chowed by a fish that Luffy one-shotted in the same chapter.. so



Chances are good Kaido took one of his many "L's" from characters far below the actual WSC Lor D. Coast.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Creative 1


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## Ushiromiya Battler (May 17, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Chances are good Kaido took one of his many "L's" from characters far below the actual WSC Lor D. Coast.


But he still has both arms left though, Shanks *on the other hand*...oh wait a minute


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## TheWiggian (May 17, 2021)

Ebitan said:


> But he still has both arms left though, Shanks *on the other hand*...oh wait a minute



Kaido is literally a fish and Shanks didn't lose his arm to him but a superior, a stronger and more intimidating fish


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## Ushiromiya Battler (May 17, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Kaido is literally a fish and Shanks didn't lose his arm to him but a superior, a stronger and more intimidating fish


And hence it is proven, ladies and gentleman, that any Fish > Shanks, hence Kaido > Shanks. Ezy

Reactions: Funny 1


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## TheWiggian (May 17, 2021)

Ebitan said:


> And hence it is proven, ladies and gentleman, that any Fish > Shanks, hence Kaido > Shanks. Ezy


Only thing proven is that EB Luffy Lor D. Coast > Kaido and Shanks

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Ushiromiya Battler (May 17, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Only thing proven is that EB Luffy Lor D. Coast > Kaido and Shanks


Hence Luffy was already beyond Yonko level since the beginning. What could possibly go wrong?


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## Quipchaque (May 17, 2021)

Ebitan said:


> I mean Shanks had one feat...which was getting his left arm chowed by a fish that Luffy one-shotted in the same chapter.. so



...


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## Dellinger (May 18, 2021)

This thread proves once again the state of this section. It's beyond saving.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Disagree 2


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## Steven (May 18, 2021)

Kaido extreme-diffs


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## Magentabeard (May 18, 2021)

WSC is going to end up applying to non humans but Shanks very high diff anyways


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## Steven (May 18, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> This thread proves once again the state of this section. It's beyond saving.


Lol this


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## Duhul10 (May 18, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> This thread proves once again the state of this section. It's beyond saving.


It's all about fanbases...Kaido winning this matchup doesn't help many people's point.
Ironically, he still does.


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## Red Admiral (May 18, 2021)

*Kaido advantages over Shanks:*

- Being called World Strongest Creature , Pirate
- Being called King of 1 Vs 1 
- Best on screen feats so far by far 

*Shanks advantages over Kaido:*

- Stopped Kaido 2 years ago after a small fight (somehow)
- Kaido himself considered him as only man worthy of fighting (maybe beating) him
- Saved by Oda for End game and Far more importance plot wise.

*
Shanks and Kaido are top 2 this is the clash of titans *

Reactions: Like 1


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## Grinningfox (May 18, 2021)

So far Kaido has to be the answer right ?

Like he has all the advantages right now

Reactions: Agree 3 | Friendly 1


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## Dellinger (May 18, 2021)

Red Admiral said:


> *Kaido advantages over Shanks:*
> 
> - Being called World Strongest Creature , Pirate
> - Being called King of 1 Vs 1
> ...


Kaido never said that Shanks can beat him and they had a clash. Both instances you Shanks fanboys try to make it like Kaido lost and is inferior. Absolutely baseless

Reactions: Agree 3


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## CaptainCommanderRenji (May 18, 2021)

One Piece world sees Kaido as the strongest, but I do believe that Shanks might secretly be stronger. He is a mysterious guy.


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## Steven (May 18, 2021)

CaptainCommanderRenji said:


> One Piece world sees Kaido as the strongest, but I do believe that Shanks might secretly be stronger. He is a mysterious guy.


Shanks is the weakest Yonkou

Reactions: Agree 2 | Disagree 2 | Optimistic 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## CaptainCommanderRenji (May 18, 2021)

Ziggy said:


> Shanks is the weakest Yonkou


Maybe. We don't know.


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## God Movement (May 18, 2021)

Hmm, let's see. Who is more likely to be stronger, the guy that Luffy will beat in an arc before EoS or the guy who Luffy idolises? The guy that was almost killed by Oden or Roger's protege?

Reactions: Agree 3 | Winner 1


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## Duhul10 (May 18, 2021)

God Movement said:


> Hmm, let's see. Who is more likely to be stronger, the guy that Luffy will beat in an arc before EoS or the guy who Luffy idolises? The guy that was almost killed by Oden or Roger's protege?


Hmmm, the guy who is the 1v1 champion or the guy who lost an arm to a fodder beast, the guy who WB avoided or the guy who was scarred by pre Yami Teach, the guy who is confirmed to be the WSP or another pirate ? So hard to decide tbh...


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## Red Admiral (May 18, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> Kaido never said that Shanks can beat him and they had a clash. Both instances you Shanks fanboys try to make it like Kaido lost and is inferior. Absolutely baseless



3 out of those 5 are 100% above Kaido and Oden could've killed him ... so odds are Shanks can as well ...
not to mention ... Shanks is the ONLY one who faced *PRIME KAIDO *

Kaido is the one who called Shanks his ONLY LIVING match ... and I'm a fanboy for pointing that out?


*every time Oda compared Shanks to Kaido , Shanks got the better hype. sorry, not sorry *

Reactions: Like 2 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Dellinger (May 19, 2021)

Red Admiral said:


> 3 out of those 5 are 100% above Kaido and Oden could've killed him ... so odds are Shanks can as well ...
> not to mention ... Shanks is the ONLY one who faced *PRIME KAIDO *
> 
> Kaido is the one who called Shanks his ONLY LIVING match ... and I'm a fanboy for pointing that out?
> ...


Yes as I said you’re confusing something here. Kaido never said he’s inferior to them.

also where did Shanks get the better hype ? Are you imagining things ?


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## Dellinger (May 19, 2021)

God Movement said:


> Hmm, let's see. Who is more likely to be stronger, the guy that Luffy will beat in an arc before EoS or the guy who Luffy idolises? The guy that was almost killed by Oden or Roger's protege?


The guy who is the strongest in the world and has faced multiple opponents in the same arc. That’s not Shanks


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## Red Admiral (May 19, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> Yes as I said you’re confusing something here. Kaido never said he’s inferior to them.
> 
> also where did Shanks get the better hype ? Are you imagining things ?



Kaido is inferior to WB , Roger and Xebec ... no debate needed
Kadio WOULD have lost to Oden 20 years ago

I get it from HERE

Reactions: Creative 1


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## trance (May 19, 2021)

oh wow shanks actually has more votes now

Reactions: Winner 2 | Lewd 1


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## Red Admiral (May 19, 2021)

Trance said:


> oh wow shanks actually has more votes now






can't wait for Luffy mentioning Shanks in front of Kaido

*then we can see why Dragons fear Gods*​

Reactions: Like 3


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## Dellinger (May 19, 2021)

Red Admiral said:


> Kaido is inferior to WB , Roger and Xebec ... no debate needed
> Kadio WOULD have lost to Oden 20 years ago
> 
> I get it from HERE


And Shanks would also lose to them.. your point exactly ?

Kaido wasn’t in his prime against Oden anyway

you got it from nowhere. Kid and Killer were gunning for Shanks and still said that Kaido is stronger. That is a fact we have in the manga


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## Dellinger (May 19, 2021)

Trance said:


> oh wow shanks actually has more votes now


Shanks has more votes because the guys who vote him are:

Shanks fanboys

Kaido haters

Mihawk fanboys who want Shanks to be stronger so that they can wank the shit out of Mihawk

Admiral fanboys

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 3


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## Duhul10 (May 19, 2021)

Red Admiral said:


> Kaido is inferior to WB , Roger and Xebec ... no debate needed
> Kadio WOULD have lost to Oden 20 years ago
> 
> I get it from HERE


All the 3 are still debatable until we get to the end of the arc, even if for now, they may be above him.
Kaido was much weaker 20 years ago and fought in dragon mode.
Those 5 were only people who could FIGHT Kaido, beating him wasn't mentioned.
Killer, Kid, the narrator and the Ace novel, all put Kaido above Shanks and any other pirate. The ace novel basically puts him above anyone.


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## Red Admiral (May 19, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> And Shanks would also lose to them.. your point exactly ?
> Kaido wasn’t in his prime against Oden anyway


those 5 people are the ones who could or can beat Kaido 
Oden COULD beat him that's why he was on the list
those are 5 people Kaido felt inferior to them during his life time

BIG MOM who is his DEAD EQUAL wasn't on the list to it heavily imply those 5 people are capable of beating Kaido 



Dellinger said:


> you got it from nowhere. Kid and Killer were gunning for Shanks and still said that Kaido is stronger. That is a fact we have in the manga


*
Kid and Killer words Vs Kaido's words* ... I wonder who should I trust   
Kid and Killer failed to understand Apo is a spy and yet they are aware of everything about Shanks and Kaido?


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## Red Admiral (May 19, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> Shanks has more votes because the guys who vote him are:
> 
> Shanks fanboys
> Kaido haters
> ...



that's a very very failed logic

most us SAID ... *Kaido is strongest base on KNOWN facts*

Shanks is the only living man in the one piece verse who have an ACTUAL claim Vs Kaido
we knew this since Marine ford and the fact

- Kaido backed that claim up himself
- Luffy with BARELY ad.CoC fought closely to Kaido (and Shanks is CoC God!)

only makes out argument more valid 
voting for Shanks is very logical
I don't see Admirals or Big Mom or even Mihawk beats Kaido in a large poll


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## Red Admiral (May 19, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> All the 3 are still debatable until we get to the end of the arc, even if for now, they may be above him.
> Kaido was much weaker 20 years ago and fought in dragon mode.
> Those 5 were only people who could FIGHT Kaido, beating him wasn't mentioned.


again ... those 5 were mentioned as FEW who can fight him sure

but we KNOW

-Big Mom who is Kaido's EQUAL (proven and mentioned over 10 times) is not on the list
-3 Kings hype are CLEARLY above Kaido 
-Oden COULD have beat him 20 years ago

so at *BARE MIN* ... that list imply *"Shanks is the only living man Kaido consider to be his real match"*



Duhul10 said:


> Killer, Kid, the narrator and the Ace novel, all put Kaido above Shanks and any other pirate. The ace novel basically puts him above anyone.


sure ... Kaido have better hype than Shanks as of now ... no one deny that
*
but reputation and reality are interchangeable with more on screen data *

Reactions: Like 1 | Friendly 1


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## Dellinger (May 19, 2021)

Red Admiral said:


> those 5 people are the ones who could or can beat Kaido
> Oden COULD beat him that's why he was on the list
> those are 5 people Kaido felt inferior to them during his life time
> 
> ...


Where does Kaido say they can beat him ? You keep mentioning that even though Kaido only said there are a handful that can fight him 

did Kaido say Shanks can beat him ? You keep mentioning that. Kaido and Shanks has a skirmish, why didn’t they call Shanks the strongest even though it is an event known throughout the world ? Why is Kaido still the strongest ?


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## Dellinger (May 19, 2021)

Red Admiral said:


> that's a very very failed logic
> 
> most us SAID ... *Kaido is strongest base on KNOWN facts*
> 
> ...


What claim again ?

Luffy fought closely ? Luffy is knocked out again and Kaido said the outcome was obvious. He was never in doubt 

like really I fail to see your logic. If Oda wanted Shanks to be stronger then he’d make him stronger. There is no need to call Kaido the strongest yet he does


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## Duhul10 (May 19, 2021)

Red Admiral said:


> again ... those 5 were mentioned as FEW who can fight him sure
> 
> but we KNOW
> 
> ...


I actually like your post. Why? Because you accept the points of the other.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Maruo (May 19, 2021)

Not only does Kaido win, but there's also a substantial amount of evidence that Shanks is the weakest Yonko.

Shanks is the youngest Yonko, has the lowest bounty outside of BB, is implied to be the weakest Yonko in the Ace novel, is speculated to be defeated by Blackbeard, and is likely weaker than Mihawk. Shanks likely having the strongest crew also might balance him being the weakest individually.

All Shanks has going for him against Kaido is the fact that he arrived at Marineford despite being intercepted by Kaido as well as Kaido's thoughts during his battle with Luffy. The latter is meaningless and is mostly being used as evidence against Kaido due to fan interpretation that I believe to be completely inaccurate. The former is a point against Kaido, but it's not like this event was a secret. If Shanks getting past Kaido implied that Shanks is stronger than Kaido, Kaido would no longer be considered by the world to be invincible in a 1 v 1.

Even if Kaido's title isn't fully accurate, it would make very little sense for him to be weaker than Shanks under the current circumstances. The only real way it would make sense is if Shanks has very thoroughly hid his true power for one reason or another (for example, conspiracy with the WG).

Reactions: Useful 1 | Disagree 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Duhul10 (May 19, 2021)

@Mihawk  fellow Castlevania fan, what was the reason for rating @Maruo 's post the way you did? What is it that you do not agree with and maybe some evidence?


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## Mihawk (May 19, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> @Mihawk  fellow Castlevania fan, what was the reason for rating @Maruo 's post the way you did? What is it that you do not agree with and maybe some evidence?


Respectfully disagree with shanks being the weakest Yonko


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## Duhul10 (May 19, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> Respectfully disagree with shanks being the weakest Yonko


Ok, although that is plausible based on current feats and even portrayal. I mean, in order for Shanks to turn out to be the opposite, a big turn must happen, which I myself, believe it MAY be possible, it just may, if Shanks actually hides his true potential ( which I do not believe, as it hasn't been hinted ), but as of this moment, Kaido has the best feats, hype and portrayal out of *everyone* alive.
I'd like to hear your point for why Shanks is the strongest yonko now, with current feats and hype. While trying to prove, keep in mind that Shanks' crew has a structure comparable to the SH crew, meaning less members, greater quality and yet he is still just a yonko and one with quite a small bounty.
Btw, Shanks is my second favourite yonko and my 3rd favourite top tier and yet for now I'd still put him below BM or possibly even current Teach.


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## Mihawk (May 19, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Ok, although that is plausible based on current feats and even *portrayal*.


Not really.


Duhul10 said:


> I mean, in order for Shanks to turn out to be the opposite, a big turn must happen, which I myself, believe it MAY be possible, it just may, if Shanks actually hides his true potential ( which I do not believe, as it hasn't been hinted ),


Not needed.


Duhul10 said:


> but as of this moment, Kaido has the best feats, hype and portrayal out of *everyone* alive.


Okay cool.


Duhul10 said:


> I'd like to hear your point for why Shanks is the strongest yonko now, with current feats and hype. While trying to prove, *keep in mind that Shanks' crew has a structure comparable to the SH crew, meaning less members, greater quality and yet he is still just a yonko and one with quite a small bounty.*
> Btw, Shanks is my second favourite yonko and my 3rd favourite top tier and yet for now I'd still put him below BM or possibly even current Teach.


I've already made my case for Shanks before, based on his hype/portrayal/role in the story, blah blah blah. It doesn't matter what I say though. Pretty much any argument made will be construed as "Oh he's just wanking Shanks cuz Mihawk" lol...so there's really no point in continuing. I've always liked Shanks. Fanboy much? Ok I'll take that. Got nothing to do with my username or Mihawk though. And I have no problem with anyone putting Kaido above Shanks. I have no agenda, cannot care less. Time will tell.

Now that we got that out of the way...

Him being the youngest just means he has more potential than the rest. I mean, Lin Lin and Newgate were past their primes; Shanks and Kaido entered theirs. Teach has yet to reach his prime. Everyone else except BB remained stagnant, while Shanks' rise to power was a constant throughout the series. Man went from an Usopp level cabin boy to a borderline Pirate King candidate. This was even acknowledged and respected a couple times by Whitebeard, out of the horse's mouth himself. So his trajectory was incredible, and it doesn't pale in comparison to the others. Shanks should be at his pinnacle now.

Him having a lower bounty is most likely due to him and his crew acting less maliciously than the other Yonko. You can actually use his "small bounty" in his favour, since we've never heard of Shanks and his crew plundering islands for raids, or killing innocent people, or just committing heinous acts in general. It can be argued the fact that his bounty still being in the same range as the other Yonko whom are more chaotic or evil, is even more impressive.

Yes less members on the most impregnable/well-rounded crew of the 4, and they are all quality...doesn't this just speak volumes to the Captain? Hypothetically speaking, if someone like Beckmann was above all other FMs by a noticeable amount, that would pretty much make him Admiral level, no?...it just means Shanks is even better.

The rest isn’t even “evidence”...I mean, you can put BM and BB ahead of Shanks, but I won't. The former's portrayal is inferior, and the latter suffers from the same arguments you make against Shanks (i.e. becoming a Yonko only recently, having a small crew, not having feats)? I mean, what feats does Post TS BB even have??

And  I like yall Kaido bros, you guys are funny and generally cool. But man, labelling ppl as haters of the character just because they don't believe he's the greatest/strongest is a lazy and dismissive attitude to take. I agree there are fans who go too far by slamming the character just because they don't like him, and are unable to separate their bias from an objective estimation of said character's strength. Stuff like "Shanks made Akainu shit his pants", or "Shanks sent Kaido packing with his tail between his legs in MF" are obviously retarded arguments not meant to be taken seriously, and blown way out of proportion.

You don't really have to stoop down to their level though. Fuck what they say...

Reactions: Like 1 | Friendly 1


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## Red Admiral (May 19, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> Where does Kaido say they can beat him ? You keep mentioning that even though Kaido only said there are a handful that can fight him


sure ... but that list imply Shanks have highest chance of beating Kaido no matter if he can do it or not
Kaido himself is saying that 
now it's we don't know if Shanks can do it or not ... but it would Shanks ... Kaido's HRADEST match ... stated by himself 


Dellinger said:


> did Kaido say Shanks can beat him ? You keep mentioning that. Kaido and Shanks has a skirmish, why didn’t they call Shanks the strongest even though it is an event known throughout the world ? Why is Kaido still the strongest ?


again ... my original argument is based on advantage over each other
the fact that Shanks is the only living man Kaido consider as his match and Shanks send Kaido home are  *advantages in favor of Shanks *

you want to say it's not enough? fair enough
but can't ignore that this ARE advantages


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## Ushiromiya Battler (May 19, 2021)

Shanks about to get his right arm chomped away too

Reactions: GODA 1


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## Red Admiral (May 19, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> What claim again ?
> Luffy fought closely ? Luffy is knocked out again and Kaido said the outcome was obvious. He was never in doubt


he did a Roger Vs Whitebeard type of clash with barely knowledge over CoC 


Dellinger said:


> like really I fail to see your logic. If Oda wanted Shanks to be stronger then he’d make him stronger. There is no need to call Kaido the strongest yet he does


that's fair as well ... but here is the thing

Roger wasn't WSM .... yet a man
Roger wasn't WSS ... yet a swordsman
Roger wasn't WSC .... yet a creature 

and Roger have BEST Claim for being strongest ever in one piece ... lack of title ... is not enough to claim *"this man can't be strongest" *
and Shanks have enough hype and plot importance to give him a legit chance over Kaido ...

you want to say Kaido is strongest? be my guest ... 
but not for a sec act as of Shanks have no claim

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (May 19, 2021)

WSM> WSC

Reactions: Agree 2 | Tier Specialist 3


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## Red Admiral (May 19, 2021)

Beast said:


> WSM> WSC



you consider Shanks to be the new world strongest man?


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## Turrin (May 19, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> like really I fail to see your logic. If Oda wanted Shanks to be stronger then he’d make him stronger. *There is no need to call Kaido the strongest yet he does*


Oda doesn’t tell the story that way. He’s not the type of author where titles given to characters are word of god. Titles in one piece are dynamic and based on the impressions/beliefs of fallible characters in the One Piece World. We have seen this many times before with Enel being called a God, Black being called Straw-Hat Luffy, or Bounties not reflecting the reality of a characters strength (both inflated or deflated). So all Kaidou title tells us is that publicly Kaidou is seen as the strongest 1v1, but does the public actually understand the strength of Top Tiers well. I doubt this greatly as we have seen even top pirates like Law/Kidd not knowing the full abilities of the Yonko. So title aren’t definitive proof.

Where I will agree with you is that there is definitely a story purpose for Kaidou’s title. The purpose clearly being to hype him up as unbeatable 1v1 and set this up as something that only Luffy could do, when he finally pulls it off in their final round. But unless Luffy is surpassing every other living character in the One Piece World right now; which seems unlikely as I would image Luffy surpassing Shanks would be against an enemy more tied to Shanks. Then their is likely some gimmick to Kaidou’s 1v1 title that will be fleshed out in the climax of the arc.

Whether it’s some ability of his Devil Fruit, that Luffy (or someone else) will need to figure out to overcome him 1v1; or if Kaidou simply fights  dirty and when it’s 1v1 he ultimately gets support not making it a true 1v1, in-order to win, such as what happens with Oden; and Luffy will overcome this somehow or inspire Kaidou to not fight dirty and then he looses. It doesn’t really matter what it is. But the end result is the same; ether Luffy Leaves this arc being Stronger then everyone else in the entire One Piece world (currently) or Kaidou has some gimmick to his title.

Again I simply think the latter is more likely


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## Ezekjuninor (May 19, 2021)

Magentabeard said:


> WSC is going to end up applying to non humans but Shanks very high diff anyways


Except it doesn’t


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## Shadowlord123 (May 19, 2021)

Giving Kaido the benefit of the doubt for now. Extreme Diff fight. 

I wouldn't be surprised if Shanks turns out to be stronger by EoS though.


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## KBD (May 19, 2021)

Snitching vs having hostages

Kaido gets away with the ransom and wins the fight but ultimately loses the war

As soon as Shanks tells the Gorosei about some creature bullying the clean people Kaido will be taken to Marijoa as a slave

Reactions: Funny 6


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## Dellinger (May 19, 2021)

Turrin said:


> Oda doesn’t tell the story that way. He’s not the type of author where titles given to characters are word of god. Titles in one piece are dynamic and based on the impressions/beliefs of fallible characters in the One Piece World. We have seen this many times before with Enel being called a God, Black being called Straw-Hat Luffy, or Bounties not reflecting the reality of a characters strength (both inflated or deflated). So all Kaidou title tells us is that publicly Kaidou is seen as the strongest 1v1, but does the public actually understand the strength of Top Tiers well. I doubt this greatly as we have seen even top pirates like Law/Kidd not knowing the full abilities of the Yonko. So title aren’t definitive proof.



Mentioning Enel is irrelevant. Enel was called God in the microcosm of Skypeia. Kaido on the other hand is called the strongest creature in the entire world. That's his title, that's how everyone knows him. Regarding the bounty stuff you're trying to pull now, when a bounty doesn't reflect the strength of someone, Oda is making sure to outright tell us. That's what happened with Robin.

Kid clashed with Shanks, he lost his arm to them and still considers Kaido stronger. I'm pretty sure a character who's seen both fighting knows better.


Turrin said:


> Where I will agree with you is that there is definitely a story purpose for Kaidou’s title. The purpose clearly being to hype him up as unbeatable 1v1 and set this up as something that only Luffy could do, when he finally pulls it off in their final round. But unless Luffy is surpassing every other living character in the One Piece World right now; which seems unlikely as I would image Luffy surpassing Shanks would be against an enemy more tied to Shanks. Then their is likely some gimmick to Kaidou’s 1v1 title that will be fleshed out in the climax of the arc.


What purpose ? Whatever Luffy does, it doesn't matter. Kaido has already faced myriads of enemies, he was weakened by others also. Luffy can't beat him one on one. Yamato will get involved, Momo will probably help him also deliver the final blow. That is exactly the reason why Kaido can remain the strongest until the very end. Oda is pretty outright when it comes to his power structure. He doesn't twist things around. 


Turrin said:


> Whether it’s some ability of his Devil Fruit, that Luffy (or someone else) will need to figure out to overcome him 1v1; or if Kaidou simply fights  dirty and when it’s 1v1 he ultimately gets support not making it a true 1v1, in-order to win, such as what happens with Oden; and Luffy will overcome this somehow or inspire Kaidou to not fight dirty and then he looses. It doesn’t really matter what it is. But the end result is the same; ether Luffy Leaves this arc being Stronger then everyone else in the entire One Piece world (currently) or Kaidou has some gimmick to his title.
> 
> Again I simply think the latter is more likely



What ability ? Where are you pulling this shit off from ? Kaido didn't want to beat Oden dirty. He's still haunted by it. Kaido could kill Big Mom yet chose to fight her fairly. Kaido didn't say anything about others teaming up on his. He took them on. 

Luffy leaves this arc close to Yonko level but still not Kaido's level. He lost 3 times, Kaido has fought 14 more. End of story.

As I've repeatedly said, you're trying to find ways to make this story appear like there are secrets powers, clones, guys hiding things etc, Oda simply doesn't work like that. Kaido and Shanks clashed. They don't refer to Shanks as the strongest nor does he have the highest bounty. Teach has 2 fruits yet calls Kaido a monster. Big Mom says Luffy could never dream of beating him. WB didn't want to fight him. All of these are things shown in the manga. I don't give a shit about your dumb theories. Manga and author portray Kaido as the strongest. His twin brother (some crap you spouted) doesn't exist.

Reactions: Agree 6


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## KBD (May 19, 2021)

Kaido summoning a twin brother to make it 2v1 whenever it becomes a 1v1 and then pretends to be disappointed when he wins



Edit : I appreciate the creative rating @Duhul10 but the source of this information is Turrin. He truly has ascended, I can't take credit for his hard work.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Creative 1


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## Turrin (May 19, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> Mentioning Enel is irrelevant. Enel was called God in the microcosm of Skypeia. Kaido on the other hand is called the strongest creature in the entire world. That's his title, that's how everyone knows him. Regarding the bounty stuff you're trying to pull now, when a bounty doesn't reflect the strength of someone, Oda is making sure to outright tell us. That's what happened with Robin.
> 
> Kid clashed with Shanks, he lost his arm to them and still considers Kaido stronger. I'm pretty sure a character who's seen both fighting knows better.
> 
> ...


1) Enel title occurring in a microcosm, is irrelevant. I’m simply showing that these titles are not Oda giving definitive power-scales of the characters, they are dependent on public opinion in verse. And Yes Oda eventually clarifies bounties, but that doesn’t happen immediately, it happens organically in the plot. For example Cracker’s bounty only being based on his Biscuit Soldier is not something we know or can account for until the Real Cracker is exposed.

So Kaidou’s Title can still be shown as false; or other characters to be underrated due to hidden powers. We won’t know this until more of the Top Tiers are fleshed out.

2) I don’t know why you would trust Kidd, to know anything. Kidd goes up against Kaidou or Shanks alone he gets clapped in a few moments without them needing to use anywhere near their full power. So how could he possibly rank them?

3) Kaidou facing a bunch of enemies previously doesn’t matter if the damage they have done to him doesn’t impact the outcome of the final 1v1. The entire arc has spent time showing how Ancient Zoan recover insanely quickly from massive Injuries, and Kaidou is by far above them. Yet now with Luffy knocked off the roof there is this belief that he can’t recover from largely insignificant injuries (besides ones Luffy himself dealt; and Zoro) in quick period of time; and has even awakening to further recover quicker if necessary.

Not to mention Luffy has taken far more significant blows then Kaidou has at this point and he doesn’t have the recovery factor of a Super Mythic Awakened Zoan. So if anything Luffy will be in worse condition then Kaidou when they have their final round. So injuries will ether be irrelevant or Luffy will be worse off; ether way Luffy winning a 1v1 would be legit.

4) Kaidou having an ability is a possibility. And I’m simply pulling it from Yamato making a big deal out of it being 1v1 specifically, and Oda intentionally off paneling how Kaidou beat Luffy 1v1 this time. Doesn’t have to be an ability but the foreshadowing is there for it to be one as well; and we still haven’t seen Kaidou’s Awakening so the power being related to that could fit 

5) Kaidou professes to be upset with the Hag interfering and kills her, but if he really wanted a fair fight and not to be dirty he would have allowed Oden to recover and had a rematch with him. Same thing when Oden first attacked them when returning to Wano; he relied on Orochi’s underhanded plan with hostages to avoid fighting Oden because he knew he would loose. The fact that he didn’t fight 1v1 ether time, means when it comes down to a him or me type situation he realistically doesn’t mind being dirty, and as such, when it comes down to a 1v1 Kaidou could loose, it wouldn’t be OOC at all for him to be dirty to win.

6) If the author wanted Kaidou to be definitely stronger then Shanks he would have had Kaidou beat Shanks, not Kaidou cucking down, so I don’t know how that’s suppose to help your point here. Shanks not being called the Strongest and WB not wanting to fight him ties into why he has the title, something that hasn’t been explained yet

Reactions: Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Quipchaque (May 19, 2021)

Ziggy said:


> Shanks is the weakest Yonkou



This is so naive it almost hurts. The Weakest yonko would never get consistent winner Portrayal by Oda. It is like calling Zoro the Weakest strawhat.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3 | Neutral 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Maruo (May 19, 2021)

Quipchaque said:


> This is so naive it almost hurts. The Weakest yonko would never get consistent winner Portrayal by Oda. It is like calling Zoro the Weakest strawhat.


The weakest Yonko is still a Yonko. He would still give extreme diff to any Yonko.

Shanks is hyped, but his hype in terms of power level doesn't go beyond the level that would be expected of any Yonko. Shanks does seem to have more plot relevance and is much more closely related to Luffy than any other Yonko, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's stronger than other Yonkos.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Quipchaque (May 19, 2021)

Maruo said:


> The weakest Yonko is still a Yonko. He would still give extreme diff to any Yonko.
> 
> Shanks is hyped, but his hype in terms of power level doesn't go beyond the level that would be expected of any Yonko. Shanks does seem to have more plot relevance and is much more closely related to Luffy than any other Yonko, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's stronger than other Yonkos.



You have no Clue what you are talking about.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Duhul10 (May 19, 2021)

Quipchaque said:


> This is so naive it almost hurts. The Weakest yonko would never get *consistent winner Portrayal* by Oda. *It is like calling Zoro the Weakest strawhat.*


Care to explain or ? Cause I can't really recall this "consistent winner" moments. Shanks has other attributes: intelligence, mistery, but him being portrayed as a constant winner? The guy is a fresh yonko, who lost his arm against a fish and got scarred by a "then" nobody BB. I mean..where do people get this from ?

Reactions: Winner 1


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## TheWiggian (May 19, 2021)

Nice Shanks is winning. If it weren't for all the dupes that voted for Kaido this would be one sided just like when Shanks sent the big boy back to Wano before MF.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## LightningForce (May 20, 2021)

I totally forgot about BB scarring Shanks and traumatizing him before he even gained the Gura fruit.



Shanksbros...


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## Seraphoenix (May 20, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Care to explain or ? Cause I can't really recall this "consistent winner" moments. Shanks has other attributes: intelligence, mistery, but him being portrayed as a constant winner? The guy is a fresh yonko, who lost his arm against a fish and got scarred by a "then" nobody BB. I mean..where do people get this from ?


You do know that he lost his arm because of an editor right? It had nothing to do with powerlevel. Yes he got scarred by Teach when? When he was a Yonkou? Shanks has the best portrayal of any character alive. At MF only Mihawk, his equal was allowed to leave with his dignity intact before Shanks made the entire navy and BB pirates back down from a fight. This after sending Kaido back to the NW. Let's also not forget multiple legendary duels with Mihawk. BM and Kaido fought for three days. Legendary duel or forgotten the next day?  Akainu and Aokiji fought for 10 days. Legendary duel?
The man had the haki that is a stand in for powerlevel, described as 'amazing' or 'incredible' by someone who saw Primebeard and Roger in action. 

If you think he won't end up in the top three in this manga you're in for a rude awakening or as I suspect you're just ignoring the countless amazing portrayal he gets.

Reactions: Agree 4 | Winner 1


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## trance (May 20, 2021)

Seraphoenix said:


> Let's also not forget multiple legendary duels with Mihawk



not that i dont believe but do you have the panel where their fights are called "legendary"?


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## Duhul10 (May 20, 2021)

Seraphoenix said:


> You do know that he lost his arm because of an editor right? It had nothing to do with powerlevel. Yes he got scarred by Teach when? When he was a Yonkou? Shanks has the best portrayal of any character alive. At MF only Mihawk, his equal was allowed to leave with his dignity intact before Shanks made the entire navy and BB pirates back down from a fight. This after sending Kaido back to the NW. Let's also not forget multiple legendary duels with Mihawk. BM and Kaido fought for three days. Legendary duel or forgotten the next day?  Akainu and Aokiji fought for 10 days. Legendary duel?
> The man had the haki that is a stand in for powerlevel, described as 'amazing' or 'incredible' by someone who saw Primebeard and Roger in action.
> 
> If you think he won't end up in the top three in this manga you're in for a rude awakening or as I suspect you're just ignoring the countless amazing portrayal he gets.


So he stopped the MF war. The war had already reached it's climax and there was already a winner and a loser, there was no reason for the marines to force another fight.

I do not care wether it was an editor, Oda's mom, or Oda's dog...it's in the manga.
Shanks does not have the best portrayal of all alive characters.  
So you are talking about the legendary duels from the distant past, but you ignore BB scarring him  that's a nice way to pick what you like from a manga.

Kaido is confirmed to be the wsp, he is also confirmed to be the strongest in a 1 v1. There is not much to debate. I don't like to go against straight manga statements *that hadn't been negated *by later statements/feats.


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## Seraphoenix (May 20, 2021)

Trance said:


> not that i dont believe but do you have the panel where their fights are called "legendary"?


WB called them legendary. Let that sink in. The guy who was around for Rocks, Roger, Prime Garp etc called their duels legendary.


Duhul10 said:


> So he stopped the MF war. The war had already reached it's climax and there was already a winner and a loser, there was no reason for the marines to force another fight.
> 
> I do not care wether it was an editor, Oda's mom, or Oda's dog...it's in the manga.
> Shanks does not have the best portrayal of all alive characters.
> ...


Absolute justice demands you wipe out pirates. Of course there is a reason to continue another fight. Nowhere was it even remotely hinted that they backed down because they had no reason to not fight pirates. They backed down because they wouldn't beat the Red-Hairs.

If you don't care then you are a retard   . Using a decision to spice up the manga as some powerlevel argument is stupid.

When did BB scar him? Show me evidence of it happening when he was a Yonko? Are you seriously this dumb that you are using that as evidence as something? Are you saying BB pre-gura, pre-yami is stronger than Yonko Shanks? 

Kaido is said to be WSC. Nothing in this manga is 'confirmed'.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 2 | Informative 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Duhul10 (May 20, 2021)

Seraphoenix said:


> WB called them legendary. Let that sink in. The guy who was around for Rocks, Roger, Prime Garp etc called their duels legendary.
> 
> Absolute justice demands you wipe out pirates. Of course there is a reason to continue another fight. Nowhere was it even remotely hinted that they backed down because they had no reason to not fight pirates. They backed down because they wouldn't beat the Red-Hairs.
> 
> ...


I'll take this as a pityful concession coming from a pityful individual. Thanks for your time, which came with a loss of mine.


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## Duhul10 (May 20, 2021)

KBD said:


> Kaido summoning a twin brother to make it 2v1 whenever it becomes a 1v1 and then pretends to be disappointed when he wins
> 
> 
> 
> Edit : I appreciate the creative rating @Duhul10 but the source of this information is Turrin. He truly has ascended, I can't take credit for his hard work.


LoL  so basically Kaido shits another individual?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Steven (May 20, 2021)

Quipchaque said:


> This is so naive it almost hurts. The Weakest yonko would never get consistent winner Portrayal by Oda. It is like calling Zoro the Weakest strawhat.


What winner portrayal?

He never fought against a Yonkou on-screen

And making Sengoku into your bitch is good but still nah


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## Mihawk (May 20, 2021)

Tbh I think the poll being split is a good thing.

Fits with the perpetual stalemate by the Yonko.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Quipchaque (May 20, 2021)

Ziggy said:


> What winner portrayal?
> 
> He never fought against a Yonkou on-screen
> 
> And making Sengoku into your bitch is good but still nah



You sound exactly like the desperate Zoro or Sanji haters. Shit is sad.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Red Admiral (May 20, 2021)

Ziggy said:


> What winner portrayal?
> 
> He never fought against a Yonkou on-screen
> 
> And making Sengoku into your bitch is good but still nah



Shanks stood equal to WSM in terms of will
Shanks stood better looking hype wise than WSC
Shanks stood equal to WSS in his younger age
Shanks stood better looking hype wise than Marine

and he is weakest Yonko

in no shape or form or reality would Oda ever make Shanks the weakest Yonko
sure ... he saved Shanks for 24 years in the story just to make him weakest Yonko ... that makes sense to you?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TheWiggian (May 20, 2021)

Kaido is just now experiencing a legendary duel with Luffy that Shanks and Mihawk had years ago. 

Not to mention that Shanks is among the men that Kaido looks up to. And all the characters have one thing in common. 

Oden? Who nearly killed him in the past. Shanks? Sent Kaido hiking instead of going to MF. Xebec? Kaido's captain and superior. WB? Kaido's blue baller and cockblocker. Roger? The PK who is a step above yonko too.

All are 100% confirmed above Kaido.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Disagree 1


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## Turrin (May 20, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> LoL  so basically Kaido shits another individual?


Sakon/Ukon, but apparently this isn’t possible in Manga so they must not exists


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## Turrin (May 20, 2021)

KBD said:


> Kaido summoning a twin brother to make it 2v1 whenever it becomes a 1v1 and then pretends to be disappointed when he wins
> 
> 
> 
> Edit : I appreciate the creative rating @Duhul10 but the source of this information is Turrin. He truly has ascended, I can't take credit for his hard work.


It’s like you don’t accept that Kaidou is will to fight dirty even though he has every 1v1 fight we’ve seen him in where he actually gets pushed


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## KBD (May 20, 2021)

Turrin said:


> It’s like you don’t accept that Kaidou is will to fight dirty even though he has every 1v1 fight we’ve seen him in where he actually gets pushed


It's a pirate fight ,I don't get the concept of fighting dirty if its a legit 1v1.

Go ahead bro, create a cell junior if you can. Should Cracker withhold biscuit soldiers just because it doesn't seem fair?

Even Kaido frowned upon the kurozumi hag but it's not like he was going to pass the opportunity out of the goodness of his heart and ask for a rematch. This isn't sports lol.

If it was and summoning a twin brother would be busted what do you call a 5v2 then


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## KBD (May 20, 2021)

Still Kaidos twin brother is by far the best theory I have seen ,thank you very much


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## Steven (May 20, 2021)

Quipchaque said:


> You sound exactly like the desperate Zoro or Sanji haters. Shit is sad.


No arguments?Classic Shanksfans

Kaido is the WSC while Shanks is what?

But i dont matter,NF is hopeless

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## TheWiggian (May 20, 2021)

Ziggy said:


> No arguments?Classic Shanksfans
> 
> Kaido is the WSC while Shanks is what?
> 
> But i dont matter,NF is hopeless



Shanks is the PK of the mid gen if you wanna go that way?


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## Turrin (May 20, 2021)

KBD said:


> It's a pirate fight ,I don't get the concept of fighting dirty if its a legit 1v1.
> 
> Go ahead bro, create a cell junior if you can. Should Cracker withhold biscuit soldiers just because it doesn't seem fair?
> 
> ...


Here’s my problem. Kaidou complains about the Old-Hag getting involved, but he had a chance to fight Oden 5 Years Earlier too, and he also relied on Hostages to duck the match. So I don’t really believe Kaidou when he talks about being mad at the Hag. It seems more like Kaidou was mad the Hag had to help him not that he won through underhanded means.
—-
And sure if Kaidou DF ability allows him to create a clone, then him winning with it is legit. However If he’s got a twin brother he shits out not so much. 5v2 beating Kaidou also wouldn’t be fair, but the 5v2 didn’t so....


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## Eustathios (May 20, 2021)

I actually voted Kaido but you gotta love the double standards when it comes to Kaido's and WB's title. Everyone will tell you that Sengoku, Buggy, narrator, etc...knew nothing and that WB wasn't the WSM because of sickness, but Kid and Killer's word is taken as proof that Kaido is WSC by the very same people.

Reactions: Like 2 | Informative 1


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## Quipchaque (May 20, 2021)

Ziggy said:


> No arguments?Classic Shanksfans
> 
> Kaido is the WSC while Shanks is what?
> 
> But i dont matter,NF is hopeless



You don't want arguments. No matter what I say you will stick to Kaido.


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## Duhul10 (May 20, 2021)

Quipchaque said:


> You don't want arguments. No matter what I say you will stick to Kaido.


Because you say nothing of substance tbh.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## KBD (May 20, 2021)

Turrin said:


> Here’s my problem. Kaidou complains about the Old-Hag getting involved, but he had a chance to fight Oden 5 Years Earlier too, and he also relied on Hostages to duck the match. So I don’t really believe Kaidou when he talks about being mad at the Hag. It seems more like Kaidou was mad the Hag had to help him not that he won through underhanded means.
> —-
> And sure if Kaidou DF ability allows him to create a clone, then him winning with it is legit. However If he’s got a twin brother he shits out not so much. 5v2 beating Kaidou also wouldn’t be fair, but the 5v2 didn’t so....


What if the 1K beasts monicer comes from an ability like an awakening?

I would legit find any scenario where uh oh it's 1v1 bet on Kaido comes from people knowing it's actually by default stacked with numbers on Kaidos side; completely and utterly hilarious. 

And Oden just got played, Kaido was invading a country of Samurai and with Oden scabbards, fodder, the Yakuza bosses thats in essence a yonko crew. It was only logic, but most likely a Kurozumi scheme more so than Kaidos.

And could be that Kaido was sour due to that, but I also genuinely believe he was upset with the conclusion of the fight.


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## Turrin (May 20, 2021)

KBD said:


> What if the 1K beasts monicer comes from an ability like an awakening?
> 
> I would legit find any scenario where uh oh it's 1v1 bet on Kaido comes from people knowing it's actually by default stacked with numbers on Kaidos side; completely and utterly hilarious.
> 
> ...


The point would be that people don’t know. For example WB talks about how Kaidou beat Oden as a testament to his strength; so clearly he doesn’t know that Kaidou actually cheap shotted for the win there. So it would be a simple case of Kaidou getting dirty once things became 1v1 and people not knowing about it because he kills anyone who aids him or silences them. Which you can say you would laugh about, but that’s essentially what we have seen happen twice now against Oden.
—-
Oden getting played doesn’t change the fact that he would have won twice against Kaidou 1v1, and Kaidou won twice because of underhanded tactics. That really makes it seem like his title is mostly a gimmick. And if Kaidou really cared about Oden loosing that way he would have just challenged him again when he healed. So I don’t buy that personally.

Now I’m not saying it’s definitely an underhand reason for the title of 1v1 champ (though I strongly suspect it is), it could also be a DF ability that makes him tough to beat 1v1 or his Lineage factor to Oars race (as that was also brought up)


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## MO (May 20, 2021)

Seraphoenix said:


> You do know that he lost his arm because of an editor right? It had nothing to do with powerlevel. Yes he got scarred by Teach when? When he was a Yonkou? Shanks has the best portrayal of any character alive. At MF only Mihawk, his equal was allowed to leave with his dignity intact before Shanks made the entire navy and BB pirates back down from a fight. This after sending Kaido back to the NW. Let's also not forget multiple legendary duels with Mihawk. BM and Kaido fought for three days. Legendary duel or forgotten the next day?  Akainu and Aokiji fought for 10 days. Legendary duel?
> The man had the haki that is a stand in for powerlevel, described as 'amazing' or 'incredible' by someone who saw Primebeard and Roger in action.
> 
> If you think he won't end up in the top three in this manga you're in for a rude awakening or as I suspect you're just ignoring the countless amazing portrayal he gets.


the whole legendary duels thing doesn't actually help your argument.  It just shows that the world knows how strong shanks is and still collectively view Kaido as stronger.

Reactions: Agree 5


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## Shunsuiju (May 20, 2021)

MO said:


> the whole legendary duels thing doesn't actually help your argument.  It just shows that the world knows how strong shanks is and still collectively view Kaido as stronger.


What top tier views Kaido as stronger than Shanks?


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## MO (May 20, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> What top tier views Kaido as stronger than Shanks?


the world does and the world includes top tiers.


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## Shunsuiju (May 20, 2021)

MO said:


> the world does and the world includes top tiers.


What are you referencing?


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## Ushiromiya Battler (May 21, 2021)

Quipchaque said:


> This is so naive it almost hurts. The Weakest yonko would never get consistent winner Portrayal by Oda. It is like calling Zoro the Weakest strawhat.


Coz the only other one getting chomped away by Lor D. Coast is Higuma. By powerscaling, Shanks lost his right arm in comparison, so by potrayal he is likely same Tier as Higuma. Isn't that his potrayal and most clear-cut feat so far?


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## convict (May 21, 2021)

Considering Shanks is infinitely more popular the fact that the poll is a draw means most actually think Kaido is stronger

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Duhul10 (May 21, 2021)

convict said:


> Considering Shanks is infinitely more popular the fact that the poll is a draw means most actually think Kaido is stronger


This


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## Red Admiral (May 21, 2021)

convict said:


> Considering Shanks is infinitely more popular the fact that the poll is a draw means most actually think Kaido is stronger



than I guess Zoro Vs Shanks poll should end in favor of Zoro?

he is infinitely more popular than Shanks

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Duhul10 (May 21, 2021)

Red Admiral said:


> than I guess Zoro Vs Shanks poll should end in favor of Zoro?
> 
> he is infinitely more popular than Shanks


Are they both yonko?


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## convict (May 21, 2021)

Red Admiral said:


> than I guess Zoro Vs Shanks poll should end in favor of Zoro?
> 
> he is infinitely more popular than Shanks



Yeah if they were actually close in power and the overall fight was debatable Zoro would win the poll even if a bit weaker.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Seraphoenix (May 22, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> I'll take this as a pityful concession coming from a pityful individual. Thanks for your time, which came with a loss of mine.


Pathetic projection. You have no answer for what I said so you want to pretend you won the exchange. Reply to what I said or I’ll take it you are the one conceding.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Seraphoenix (May 22, 2021)

MO said:


> the whole legendary duels thing doesn't actually help your argument.  It just shows that the world knows how strong shanks is and still collectively view Kaido as stronger.


What world? Does the world at large know Shanks sent Kaido back to the new world in their fight? Probably not. There are rumours and there are facts on the ground. They both wanted to go to MF and one of them got bullied into backing down. It wasn’t Shanks


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## Duhul10 (May 22, 2021)

Seraphoenix said:


> Pathetic projection. You have no answer for what I said so you want to pretend you won the exchange. Reply to what I said or I’ll take it you are the one conceding.


What do you mean I have no answer?  No answer to what. You have 0 evidence of Shanks being stronger, absolutely 0.


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## Tenma (May 22, 2021)

Kaido's title obviously isn't ironclad. But in this instance it clearly grants him the benefit of the doubt given Shanks doesn't have anything to place him beyond or above that, in feats/hype etc.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## Perrin (May 22, 2021)

Tenma said:


> Kaido's title obviously isn't ironclad. But in this instance it clearly grants him the benefit of the doubt given Shanks doesn't have anything to place him beyond or above that, in feats/hype etc.




‘Pirate Leader’ Shanks can exploit Kaido’s greatest weakness though.

Reactions: Funny 3 | Winner 1


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## Red Admiral (May 22, 2021)

Tenma said:


> Kaido's title obviously isn't ironclad. But in this instance it clearly grants him the benefit of the doubt given Shanks doesn't have anything to place him beyond or above that, in feats/hype etc.



in Kaido's defense ... titles are how the worlds sees that man and all of them are in-world titles ... 

so his title is as canon as WSS , WSM ... meaning : the world sees him as strongest in 1 Vs 1 

world opinion being true or not is always debatable even form likes of WB

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Tenma (May 23, 2021)

Red Admiral said:


> in Kaido's defense ... titles are how the worlds sees that man and all of them are in-world titles ...
> 
> so his title is as canon as WSS , WSM ... meaning : the world sees him as strongest in 1 Vs 1
> 
> world opinion being true or not is always debatable even form likes of WB


Never said it wasn't debatable

just that unless shanks proves himself explicitly more impressive than kaido the title is obviously the deciding factor here.


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## TheWiggian (May 23, 2021)

Tenma said:


> Never said it wasn't debatable
> 
> just that unless shanks proves himself explicitly more impressive than kaido the title is obviously the deciding factor here.



Which he didn't and flew back to Wano with a spanked ass 

He didn't against Mom either and she wasn't even at full power

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Tenma (May 23, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Which he didn't and flew back to Wano with a spanked ass
> 
> He didn't against Mom either and she wasn't even at full power



I said Shanks has to be prove himself more impressive than the titleholder, not the other way round


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## TheWiggian (May 23, 2021)

Tenma said:


> I said Shanks has to be prove himself more impressive than the titleholder, not the other way round



They had a direct confrontation and Kaido didn't come out on top. So yeah not Shanks has to prove himself here


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## Duhul10 (May 23, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> They had a direct confrontation and Kaido didn't come out on top. So yeah not Shanks has to prove himself here


How do you know that ? 2piece reader   
Do you know what actually happened? Do you know if Kaido had anyone to back him up against the whole RH pirates? Or are you just talking due to hate for a character and the fact that you've been under damage control for over 2 years?

Reactions: Winner 1


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## TheWiggian (May 23, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> How do you know that ? 2piece reader
> Do you know what actually happened? Do you know if Kaido had anyone to back him up against the whole RH pirates? Or are you just talking due to hate for a character and the fact that you've been under damage control for over 2 years?



Do you know if Shanks had anyone to back him up against the whole beast pirates? Or are you just talking due to hate for a character and the fact that you've been under damage control since the raid started?

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Red Admiral (May 23, 2021)

Tenma said:


> Never said it wasn't debatable
> 
> just that unless shanks proves himself explicitly more impressive than kaido the title is obviously the deciding factor here.



sure ... not just cause of title ... Kaido is above Shanks in every provable ways

- he is called world strongest creature 
- he is called world Strongest Pirate 
- he is called King of 1 Vs 1 
- he have highest bounty
- he have best feats in the story so far
- he have super power , Shanks don't
- he have a DF , Shanks don't
- even in mythology he is the Azure Dragon while Shanks is Vermilion Bird. and Azure Dragon is seen as the leader of 4 symbols in some myth 

so ... Kaido > Shanks *based on known facts* is an obvious statement

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Duhul10 (May 23, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Do you know if Shanks had anyone to back him up against the whole beast pirates? Or are you just talking due to hate for a character and the fact that you've been under damage control since the raid started?


Yes, Shanks was with his crew as he appeared at MF. What a stupid reply  nice try though. Also Kaido is known to walk alone, without his commanders just as he was when he jumped from the sky island.
Better luck next time troll

Reactions: Winner 1


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## TheWiggian (May 23, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Yes, Shanks was with his crew as he appeared at MF. What a stupid reply  nice try though. Also Kaido is known to walk alone, without his commanders just as he was when he jumped from the sky island.
> Better luck next time troll



Yes, Kaido was with his crew as we have seen him go on expeditions during the Yamato/Ace flashback. What a stupid reply  nice try though. Also Shanks is known to walk alone, without his commanders just as he was when he went on WB's ship and to the garosei.
Better luck next time troll


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## Duhul10 (May 23, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Yes, Kaido was with his crew as we have seen him go on expeditions during the Yamato/Ace flashback. What a stupid reply  nice try though. Also Shanks is known to walk alone, without his commanders just as he was when he went on WB's ship and to the garosei.
> Better luck next time troll


So you did not counter any of my arguments, you just gave an example from the past when Kaido did not leave the island alone. However you have no proof he wasn't alone either ( when meeting Shanks )  while I do know Shanks had his crew with him for a fact.
You also bring up the fact that Shanks went alone on WB's ship but their ships were one next to the other and WB was nowhere near an enemy to him 
You also have no actual idea what happened there, but given how much of a hater you are, you still talk sh*t around here.
Shanks and his crew also came with not even a scratch, so unless you're implying an idiotic thing, you're not right, as always.
Crawl back troll


P.S. you've lost in yet another poll


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## TheWiggian (May 23, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> So you did not counter any of my arguments, you just gave an example from the past when Kaido did not leave the island alone. However you have no proof he wasn't alone either ( when meeting Shanks )  while I do know Shanks had his crew with him for a fact.
> You also bring up the fact that Shanks went alone on WB's ship but their ships were one next to the other and WB was nowhere near an enemy to him
> You also have no actual idea what happened there, but given how much of a hater you are, you still talk sh*t around here.
> Shanks and his crew also came with not even a scratch, so unless you're implying an idiotic thing, you're not right, as always.
> ...



What am i supposed to counter if you have no argument? 

Kaido already got a canon "L" from Shanks

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Turrin (May 23, 2021)

Tenma said:


> Never said it wasn't debatable
> 
> just that unless shanks proves himself explicitly more impressive than kaido the title is obviously the deciding factor here.


The title will never be the deciding factor until we are given the reason why Kaidou is considered the 1v1 champ. If we are told  strength alone is the reason, then I would agree with you, but that has yet to be clarified in the story yet. We need that clarification because for example WB title as WSP/WSM, was once considered to mean he was the strongest man/pirate in 1v1. But now it’s looking more like what that title means is that he had command over the Strongest Military Force in the World, making him WSM, because his Own Powers + His Crew exceed any other military power one individual could command.

Though even this is wrong because the world doesn’t know about Imu, who secretly had command over the entire WG and Navy, which is a greater military force then the WB Pirates. But I suppose Oda could get around this if Imu is a woman, but that would add yet another layer to WB title that wasn’t considered as well.

So we need that definition of Kaidou’s 1v1 Fame before we can use it as proof the way your doing. As it could be due to any number of factors such as DF Hax, Underhanded Tactics, or simply on the false assumption that Kaidou consistently beat Oden 1v1, when he actually didn’t do so 1v1 like at all.


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## Duhul10 (May 23, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> What am i supposed to counter if you have no argument?
> 
> Kaido already got a canon "L" from Shanks


Tier specialist, optimistic, creative

You have to choose one, for now

Reactions: Neutral 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Turrin (May 23, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Tier specialist, optimistic, creative
> 
> You have to choose one, for now


The optimistic rating should just be eternally fixed to any poster who actually believes Kaidou is the strongest character in the world and won’t loose to Luffy in a final 1v1 round at the end of Wano.

It’s not impossible, but god dam is it the most optimistic stance I’ve ever seen a fandom take on these forums

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Duhul10 (May 23, 2021)

Turrin said:


> The optimistic rating should just be eternally fixed to any poster who actually believes Kaidou is the strongest character in the world and won’t loose to Luffy in a final 1v1 round at the end of Wano.
> 
> It’s not impossible, but god dam is it the most optimistic stance I’ve ever seen a fandom take on these forums


Lurrin, who asked for your opinion now, boy?

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## TheWiggian (May 23, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Tier specialist, optimistic, creative
> 
> You have to choose one, for now



I trust in your imagination


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## Turrin (May 23, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Lurrin, who asked for your opinion now, boy?


No really an opinion as much as it is a fact


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## Duhul10 (May 23, 2021)

Turrin said:


> No really an opinion as much as it is a fact


Very solid post, as usual, how's Blueno big boy?


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## Turrin (May 23, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Very solid post, as usual, how's Blueno big boy?


Seems like it’s Kid’s turn she’s working her way up to that level

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Duhul10 (May 23, 2021)

Turrin said:


> Seems like it’s Kid’s turn she’s working her way up to that level


Wow, you got the whole squad laughing  
Enough bullying for me today, I'll stop


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## Tenma (May 23, 2021)

Turrin said:


> The title will never be the deciding factor until we are given the reason why Kaidou is considered the 1v1 champ. If we are told  strength alone is the reason, then I would agree with you, but that has yet to be clarified in the story yet. We need that clarification because for example WB title as WSP/WSM, was once considered to mean he was the strongest man/pirate in 1v1. But now it’s looking more like what that title means is that he had command over the Strongest Military Force in the World, making him WSM, because his Own Powers + His Crew exceed any other military power one individual could command.
> 
> Though even this is wrong because the world doesn’t know about Imu, who secretly had command over the entire WG and Navy, which is a greater military force then the WB Pirates. But I suppose Oda could get around this if Imu is a woman, but that would add yet another layer to WB title that wasn’t considered as well.
> 
> So we need that definition of Kaidou’s 1v1 Fame before we can use it as proof the way your doing. As it could be due to any number of factors such as DF Hax, Underhanded Tactics, or simply on the false assumption that Kaidou consistently beat Oden 1v1, when he actually didn’t do so 1v1 like at all.



Occam's razor is that he's said to be the strongest 'cause he's the strongest  ofc it's not ironclad, but I don't see why I need to go through all these hoops and stress-testing to use it in an argument.

If Shanks has better feats or outright outperforms Kaido then sure, that supercedes the title. But as it is they are both Emperors with similar showings and stature, except one is considered the strongest and the other isn't. Picking Kaido is thus basic common sense and logical thought process with the available information for any objective individual.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## KBD (May 23, 2021)

Perrin said:


> ‘Pirate Leader’ Shanks can exploit Kaido’s greatest weakness though.


Koido is also strongest in the sea

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Turrin (May 23, 2021)

Tenma said:


> Occam's razor is that he's said to be the strongest 'cause he's the strongest  ofc it's not ironclad, but I don't see why I need to go through all these hoops and stress-testing to use it in an argument.
> 
> If Shanks has better feats or outright outperforms Kaido then sure, that supercedes the title. But as it is they are both Emperors with similar showings and stature, except one is considered the strongest and the other isn't. Picking Kaido is thus basic common sense and logical thought process with the available information for any objective individual.


Orcamz razor doesn’t work here because the author already established titles like World’s Strongest don’t necessarily mean individual combat, as we saw with Whitebeard titles. So that’s why we need more justification now. Otherwise I would agree with you.


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## trance (May 23, 2021)

aaaaand kaido pulls back ahead

gonna necro this when shanks makes his move and acquires better feats

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Tenma (May 24, 2021)

Turrin said:


> Orcamz razor doesn’t work here because the author already established titles like World’s Strongest don’t necessarily mean individual combat, as we saw with Whitebeard titles. So that’s why we need more justification now. Otherwise I would agree with you.



The author didn't establish anything of that sort. Besides, it's not about what it necessarily means, it's about the simplest and most straightforward explanation in the absence of information. Which in this case is what it says on the tin.

If we needed the outcome or title verified in black and white there would be no point to this thread or this subforum for another 3 years at least- but here we are. As it is, the title is the strongest evidence, not speculation or individual imagination/hopes which are the sole reasons to vote Shanks.


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## Dellinger (May 24, 2021)

People bringing up the Shanks vs Kaido clash to prove that Shanks is stronger  

The world knows about that skirmish. They still have Kaido as stronger. So no Kaido didn't lose.


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## TheWiggian (May 24, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> People bringing up the Shanks vs Kaido clash to prove that Shanks is stronger
> 
> The world knows about that skirmish. They still have Kaido as stronger. So no Kaido didn't lose.



Only the marines mentioned that Shanks fought Kaido and funnily the marines never called Kaido the WSC.


*Spoiler*: __ 










*Spoiler*: __ 









Time to get over it. Kaido got at least 1 "L" from Shanks no matter how you look at it.

Reactions: Like 4 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Juub (May 24, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Only the marines mentioned that Shanks fought Kaido and funnily the marines never called Kaido the WSC.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


Oh, we still on the "strongest creature" shit?

Here's the thing people have to realize, Kaido being the strongest creature doesn't mean he's stronger than everything including humans, it's mean he's the strongest being OUTSIDE of them. Dude couldn't beat the strongest woman. You think he beats the strongest man?

Kaido is getting defeated this arc, while Shanks will still be Luffy's idol after.

Time to pack up your bags and skip town Kaido fans.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 3 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Strobacaxi (May 24, 2021)

The moment aCoC was created was the moment Shanks surpassed Kaido.

Marco, the guy who saw Primebeard and Roger clash a billion times, praised Shanks' CoC.

Reactions: Like 4 | Funny 1


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## Red Admiral (May 24, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> The moment aCoC was created was the moment Shanks surpassed Kaido.
> 
> Marco, the guy who saw Primebeard and Roger clash a billion times, praised Shanks' CoC.



Marco was SO AWARE of Shanks's CoC that he knew his Haki gonna be active and there is no chance most of crew can handle it

it means they fought before ... WBP Vs RHP ... I like to see part of this story arc at some point


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## Perrin (May 24, 2021)

Red Admiral said:


> Marco was SO AWARE of Shanks's CoC that he knew his Haki gonna be active and there is no chance most of crew can handle it
> 
> it means they fought before ... WBP Vs RHP ... I like to see part of this story arc at some point


Ooooob boy, i love me some loot exchange panels!


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## Mihawk (May 24, 2021)

End of the arc.

Kaido gets defeated and shares some parting words to Luffy.

*Kaido on the floor*

"Straw Hat--well done, you finally did it--you finally beat me..."

*coughs blood and grunts*

"But a brat like you will still never be Pirate King..*cough* *cough*

"--The man you have to take down, Red-Hair...he was the one who gave me all 7 of my Ls."

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Velocity (May 24, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> End of the arc.
> 
> Kaido gets defeated and shares some parting words to Luffy.
> 
> ...


I am actually expecting some kind of twist reveal regarding what happened before Marineford, something to put Shanks in Luffy's crosshairs.

It'd be quite a big deal if Kaido told Luffy he intended to go to Marineford two years ago to join up with Whitebeard, knowing they'd both die there, side by side in a glorious battle, but Shanks stopped him to prevent the war from escalating too much even though he knew Whitebeard would be unable to save Ace without help from another Yonkou.

Ace's life being the cost of Shanks' peace would be kinda huge.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Creative 1


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## TheWiggian (May 24, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> End of the arc.
> 
> Kaido gets defeated and shares some parting words to Luffy.
> 
> ...







Mihawk said:


> *coughs blood and grunts*
> 
> "But a brat like you will still never be Pirate King..*cough* *cough*







Mihawk said:


> "--The man you have to take down, Red-Hair...he was the one who gave me all 7 of my Ls."

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 1


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## Perrin (May 24, 2021)

Velocity said:


> I am actually expecting some kind of twist reveal regarding what happened before Marineford, something to put Shanks in Luffy's crosshairs.
> 
> It'd be quite a big deal if Kaido told Luffy he intended to go to Marineford two years ago to join up with Whitebeard, knowing they'd both die there, side by side in a glorious battle, but Shanks stopped him to prevent the war from escalating too much even though he knew Whitebeard would be unable to save Ace without help from another Yonkou.
> 
> Ace's life being the cost of Shanks' peace would be kinda huge.


That’d be amazing, Shanks is so shady.


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## Duhul10 (May 24, 2021)

My boy Kaido laughing in front of adversity of multiple fanbases and bouncing back on top as always  
Hard not to be a fan tbh.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Turrin (May 24, 2021)

Tenma said:


> The author didn't establish anything of that sort. Besides, it's not about what it necessarily means, it's about the simplest and most straightforward explanation in the absence of information. Which in this case is what it says on the tin.
> 
> If we needed the outcome or title verified in black and white there would be no point to this thread or this subforum for another 3 years at least- but here we are. As it is, the title is the strongest evidence, not speculation or individual imagination/hopes which are the sole reasons to vote Shanks.


He did establish it with WB, and therefore your answer is no longer the simplest


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## shintebukuro (May 24, 2021)

You'd have to be really short-sighted, as in you're unable to think outside of the exact moment you're living in, to not see down the obvious road and realize that Kaidou is not the strongest character alive in OP. This a shounen and the main character's father and father figure still have almost nothing revealed of them. 

But I guess Oda's tricks work on some people.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Tenma (May 25, 2021)

Turrin said:


> He did establish it with WB, and therefore your answer is no longer the simplest



When?

In the manga, the Strongest title for all 3 notables has invariably or at least nearly always been used to refer to their strength

Regardless, any logical neutral person would consider the title a far stronger piece of evidence than that for Shanks which is purely speculation and has even less value as those 'next chapter predictions' in the telegrams thread, even if it isn't verified in black and white. While we know little of Shanks and even Kaido we can't say for sure, but so long as we are making a judgment Kaido is just the sensible option.


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## Dunno (May 25, 2021)

Tenma said:


> The author didn't establish anything of that sort. Besides, it's not about what it necessarily means, it's about the simplest and most straightforward explanation in the absence of information. Which in this case is what it says on the tin.
> 
> If we needed the outcome or title verified in black and white there would be no point to this thread or this subforum for another 3 years at least- but here we are. As it is, the title is the strongest evidence, not speculation or individual imagination/hopes which are the sole reasons to vote Shanks.


And what is the simplest and most straightforward explanation for Oda intentionally adding the words "known as" and "people say" everytime he's mentioned Kaido?


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## Duhul10 (May 25, 2021)

Dunno said:


> And what is the simplest and most straightforward explanation for Oda intentionally adding the words "known as" and "people say" everytime he's mentioned Kaido?


Killer used no "people say" and not that the use of those words would matter, it only translates into "this is common knowledge in the OP world". Also the Ace novel used no "people say". 

And so on and so forth. You people hanging onto those 2 words as if they actually mean something...it's become pityworth...for real.


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## Velocity (May 25, 2021)

Tenma said:


> When?
> 
> In the manga, the Strongest title for all 3 notables has invariably or at least nearly always been used to refer to their strength
> 
> Regardless, any logical neutral person would consider the title a far stronger piece of evidence than that for Shanks which is purely speculation and has even less value as those 'next chapter predictions' in the telegrams thread, even if it isn't verified in black and white. While we know little of Shanks and even Kaido we can't say for sure, but so long as we are making a judgment Kaido is just the sensible option.


The titles are, largely, meaningless because they only refer to characters _interested in challenging them_.

For example, Whitebeard may have been called the World's Strongest Man but that doesn't actually mean he was the strongest man because there are plenty of people who were stronger than him but just didn't care to contest his title. Considering he had that title long before Roger's death, do you really think Roger or Garp gave a shit about what people were calling Whitebeard? Of course they didn't.

It's the same with Mihawk, as well. His title is only as good as the people willing to contest it. It's not some free pass to consider Mihawk an equal among any characters that wield a sword, because that title only really matters to a select few. It might mean a lot to Zoro to take the title from Mihawk, but I can pretty much guarantee Oden wouldn't have cared as an example.

In fact the only "World's Strongest" title with any real justification to it is Kaido's because it's so remarkably specific to just Zoan fruit users and he very likely does indeed possess the most powerful Zoan fruit. Given that he's a Yonkou and leads an entire crew of Zoan fruit users, there's a pretty good chance we'll never see a stronger Zoan fruit user for the remainder of the manga. That does not, however, preclude us from ever meeting an actual beast (like the ones on the island Luffy trained on during the time skip) that are actually stronger than Kaido is. It just means they never contested his title as the "World's Strongest Beast".


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## Ushiromiya Battler (May 25, 2021)

Shanks is good at shanking, but can he shank a dragon?


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## Dunno (May 25, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Killer used no "people say" and not that the use of those words would matter, *it only translates into "this is common knowledge in the OP world".* Also the Ace novel used no "people say".
> 
> And so on and so forth. You people hanging onto those 2 words as if they actually mean something...it's become pityworth...for real.


Exactly. At last, we've gotten through to you. It has taken a few years, but at last you people understand that Kaido is known as the strongest in the world. Understanding that is step one. Now we can move on to step two, which is the why. Why didn't Oda state that Kaido is the strongest in the world? You can't say that it's because he didn't care about it or because he forgot about it, because he intentionally added the words. You can't say that it's because Oda doesn't tell us exactly where certain people rank in terms of strength, because he has done so for MIhawk and Whitebeard. So why? That's what you have to ask yourself.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Duhul10 (May 25, 2021)

Dunno said:


> Exactly. At last, we've gotten through to you. It has taken a few years, but at last you people understand that Kaido is known as the strongest in the world. Understanding that is step one. Now we can move on to step two, which is the why. Why didn't Oda state that Kaido is the strongest in the world? You can't say that it's because he didn't care about it or because he forgot about it, because he intentionally added the words. You can't say that it's because Oda doesn't tell us exactly where certain people rank in terms of strength, because he has done so for MIhawk and Whitebeard. So why? That's what you have to ask yourself.


What it is known, it is what it was proven. If people know Kaido is the strongest, it is because it was demonstrated. It is this that you need to understand. If it's common knowledge, then it's for a reason. WB's title was directly countered by the manga few chapters after his introduction, which was a means for Oda to tell us, hoy, people, this guy is not there anymore, I f*cked with you, he's a wreck.

Also, Kaido is confirmed as WSP and confirmed to be > Akainu, which would basically put him at no.1 anyway, until eos when Im and BB will show up.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 2


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## Dunno (May 25, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> What it is known, it is what it was proven. If people know Kaido is the strongest, it is because it was demonstrated. It is this that you need to understand. If it's common knowledge, then it's for a reason. WB's title was directly countered by the manga few chapters after his introduction, which was a means for Oda to tell us, hoy, people, this guy is not there anymore, I f*cked with you, he's a wreck.
> 
> Also, Kaido is confirmed as WSP and confirmed to be > Akainu, which would basically put him at no.1 anyway, until eos when Im and BB will show up.


I see that you completely dodged the question, which is understandable, since you have no good answer to it. I reiterate. Why would Oda state that Kaido is known as the strongest, instead of stating that he is the strongest, like he did with Whitebeard in his introduction, and with Mihawk multiple times?


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## Duhul10 (May 25, 2021)

Dunno said:


> I see that you completely dodged the question, which is understandable, since you have no good answer to it. I reiterate. Why would Oda state that Kaido is known as the strongest, instead of stating that he is the strongest, like he did with Whitebeard in his introduction, and with Mihawk multiple times?


simple. It was for the effect of his introduction, bringing some mistery to his character. He did not hesitate to later call him WSP and above Akainu, so, that alone answers your question, although it's the third time I say this and it'll be the 3rd time you ignore it because it disintegrates your attempt of an argument.


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## Turrin (May 25, 2021)

Tenma said:


> When?
> 
> In the manga, the Strongest title for all 3 notables has invariably or at least nearly always been used to refer to their strength
> 
> Regardless, any logical neutral person would consider the title a far stronger piece of evidence than that for Shanks which is purely speculation and has even less value as those 'next chapter predictions' in the telegrams thread, even if it isn't verified in black and white. While we know little of Shanks and even Kaido we can't say for sure, but so long as we are making a judgment Kaido is just the sensible option.


How can they both refer to strength if Kaidou is WSC and WB is WSM; that is contradictory unless you think Kaidou’s title doesn’t apply to humans.
—-
I think Kaidou own opinion that Shanks can beat him and ranking him near characters we know are stronger then Kaidou is a much better implication then a dubious title

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Turrin (May 25, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> simple. It was for the effect of his introduction, bringing some mistery to his character. He did not hesitate to later call him WSP and above Akainu, so, that alone answers your question, although it's the third time I say this and it'll be the 3rd time you ignore it because it disintegrates your attempt of an argument.


He only says he’s rumored or said to be WSP.


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## Duhul10 (May 25, 2021)

Turrin said:


> He only says he’s rumored or said to be WSP.


Killer said he is the WSP in the official, you're probably thinking of Zoro's statement



Turrin said:


> How can they both refer to strength if Kaidou is WSC and WB is WSM; that is contradictory unless you think Kaidou’s title doesn’t apply to humans.
> —-
> *I think Kaidou own opinion that Shanks can beat him* and ranking him near characters we know are stronger then Kaidou is a much better implication then a dubious title


Keep dreaming boy  dunno where you get this from


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## Turrin (May 25, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Keep dreaming boy  dunno where you get this from


From Kaidou



Duhul10 said:


> Killer said he is the WSP in the official, you're probably thinking of Zoro's statement


Oh Killer lol, he knows nothing John Duhul


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## Duhul10 (May 25, 2021)

Turrin said:


> Oh Killer lol, he knows nothing John Duhul


 good refference

Also, good bias


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## Turrin (May 25, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> good refference
> 
> Also, good bias


It’s legit bias to believe Killer is an informed source, the dude knows nothing about the peak power of top tiers.


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## Tenma (May 25, 2021)

Turrin said:


> How can they both refer to strength if Kaidou is WSC and WB is WSM; that is contradictory unless you think Kaidou’s title doesn’t apply to humans.
> —-
> I think Kaidou own opinion that Shanks can beat him and ranking him near characters we know are stronger then Kaidou is a much better implication then a dubious title



Kaido's title applies to everything, WB's applies to humans, Kaido is not human. This is basic categorization. Like, just put it into a venn diagram this isn't hard.

Kaido said Shanks could fight him, not beat him. Reread the chapter. And 'these characters are close to each other in this panel' is more of a rorschach test than 'WSXXX' to an absurd degree, how does it present a better implication? 

The only person who's struggling and overthinking this hard with the idea of the strongest title is you (even guys like Dunno are targeting moreso the 'said to' aspect) whereas every person's gonna take away a different meaning from that Luffy panel.


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## Duhul10 (May 25, 2021)

Turrin said:


> It’s legit bias to believe Killer is an informed source, the dude knows nothing about the peak power of top tiers.


Yeah, not buying that. Imagine 2 SNs who spent their time challenging emperors having no idea what they're talking about. Not to mention that it were Oda's words through his mouth. Were they denied in any way by anyone, no. Are the words canon? Yes.


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## Turrin (May 25, 2021)

Tenma said:


> Kaido's title applies to everything, WB's applies to humans, Kaido is not human. This is basic categorization. Like, just put it into a venn diagram this isn't hard.
> 
> Kaido said Shanks could fight him, not beat him. Reread the chapter. And 'these characters are close to each other in this panel' is more of a rorschach test than 'WSXXX' to an absurd degree, how does it present a better implication?
> 
> The only person who's struggling and overthinking this hard with the idea of the strongest title is you (even guys like Dunno are targeting moreso the 'said to' aspect) whereas every person's gonna take away a different meaning from that Luffy panel.


1) You realize WB also held the title of WSP too right; so that explanation based on Kaidou being considered a “man” or not, doesn’t work.

2) Yes could fight him, means in this context, can beat him. As obviously he is not listing characters that can just fight him, as otherwise he would list the scabbers, kidd, killer, etc... they all fought him, but the implication here is Shanks can win

3) Come on man, Oda is obviously drawing a comparison between these characters and Shanks by putting him alongside them.


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## Turrin (May 25, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Yeah, not buying that. Imagine 2 SNs who spent their time challenging emperors having no idea what they're talking about. Not to mention that it were Oda's words through his mouth. Were they denied in any way by anyone, no. Are the words canon? Yes.


They clearly don’t have any idea as they thought they could fight the Emperors and every time got bodied. So actually the one person we know for sure isn’t a good judge of the Emperors strength is Killer. 

Prove they were oda’s words and not just Killer not knowing the fuck he is talking about


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## Duhul10 (May 25, 2021)

Turrin said:


> They clearly don’t have any idea as they thought they could fight the Emperors and every time got bodied. So actually the one person we know for sure isn’t a good judge of the Emperors strength is Killer.
> 
> Prove they were oda’s words and not just Killer not knowing the fuck he is talking about


Oda writes the manga. Prove someone else wrote that.

Also, come on  whether they lost or won, both you and I know it doesn't matter at all. What matters is that they've confronted many tough people, or at least informed about them and still, to them Kaido is the strongest.


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## Velocity (May 25, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Keep dreaming boy  dunno where you get this from


Kaido basically admitted that Roger, Shanks, Rocks, Whitebeard and Oden had all surpassed him and he wondered how high Luffy’s own “ceiling” was.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Duhul10 (May 25, 2021)

Velocity said:


> Kaido basically admitted that Roger, Shanks, Rocks, Whitebeard and Oden had all surpassed him and he wondered how high Luffy’s own “ceiling” was.


Kaido basically admitted shit. Where in hell do you get that info from? What kind of headcannon is this? Kaido was thinking of individuals who were/are great and who can actually fight him. Anything more than that is pityful biased headcanon.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Dunno (May 25, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> simple. It was for the effect of his introduction, bringing some mistery to his character. He did not hesitate to later call him WSP and above Akainu, so, that alone answers your question, although it's the third time I say this and it'll be the 3rd time you ignore it because it disintegrates your attempt of an argument.


Oda never called Kaido the WSP. Killer did. This reinforces the fact that Kaido's title is an in-universe opinion. Whenever Oda mentions it, he says that Kiaod is known as the strongest, and then he has some characters in the manga believe in it. Do you think Pica could have soloed Fujitora, Sabo and the SHs? Do you think Moria with the Oars Zombie could have gotten revenge on Kaido? Do you think Mihawk has a DF? The characters in the manga aren't narrators, they are merely people in the manga with very limited information.


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## Duhul10 (May 25, 2021)

Dunno said:


> Oda never called Kaido the WSP. Killer did. This reinforces the fact that Kaido's title is an in-universe opinion. Whenever Oda mentions it, he says that Kiaod is known as the strongest, and then he has some characters in the manga believe in it. Do you think Pica could have soloed Fujitora, Sabo and the SHs? Do you think Moria with the Oars Zombie could have gotten revenge on Kaido? Do you think Mihawk has a DF? The characters in the manga aren't narrators, they are merely people in the manga with very limited information.


This is nothing more than what you wish to be the truth  if Everyone knows that Kaido is the strongest in spite of the many top tier battles that took place and how notorious they were, then it means that Kaido has a great chance of actually being the strongest. 
All this aside from the fact that Kaido has superiority in the feats department, compared to ANYONE alive.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dunno (May 25, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> This is nothing more than what you wish to be the truth  if Everyone knows that Kaido is the strongest in spite of the many top tier battles that took place and how notorious they were, then it means that Kaido has a great chance of actually being the strongest.
> All this aside from the fact that Kaido has superiority in the feats department, compared to ANYONE alive.


Whether you believe in the truth or not is up to you. Oda specifically going out of his way to call Kaido known as the strongest every time he's refered to him is a fact. And it's a fact that's extremely detrimental to his ranking on the leaderboard.

His feats are decent, but nothing to write home about. Akainu's feat of defeating Aokiji is better in terms of quality of opponent defeated, and Aokiji's Ice Age is better in terms of scale. Most of what Kaido has done is beaten Luffy a couple times, which isn't all that impressive. He didn't even finish Zoro himself, but teamed up with another Yonkou to do so.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Dunno (May 25, 2021)

Tenma said:


> Kaido's title applies to everything, WB's applies to humans, Kaido is not human. This is basic categorization. Like, just put it into a venn diagram this isn't hard.
> 
> Kaido said Shanks could fight him, not beat him. Reread the chapter. And 'these characters are close to each other in this panel' is more of a rorschach test than 'WSXXX' to an absurd degree, how does it present a better implication?
> 
> The only person who's struggling and overthinking this hard with the idea of the strongest title is you (even guys like Dunno are targeting moreso the 'said to' aspect) whereas every person's gonna take away a different meaning from that Luffy panel.


Again, what is the simplest and most straightforward explanation for Oda intentionally adding the words "known as" and "people say" everytime he's mentioned Kaido?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tenma (May 25, 2021)

Dunno said:


> Again, what is the simplest and most straightforward explanation for Oda intentionally adding the words "known as" and "people say" everytime he's mentioned Kaido?



That he's generally considered the strongest? What would you posit?

My argument was never that the title was ironclad, just that it's the best argument we have at present anyhow


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## Duhul10 (May 25, 2021)

Dunno said:


> Whether you believe in the truth or not is up to you. Oda specifically going out of his way to call Kaido known as the strongest every time he's refered to him is a fact. And it's a fact that's extremely detrimental to his ranking on the leaderboard.
> 
> His feats are decent, but nothing to write home about. Akainu's feat of defeating Aokiji is better in terms of quality of opponent defeated, and Aokiji's Ice Age is better in terms of scale. Most of what Kaido has done is beaten Luffy a couple times, which isn't all that impressive. He didn't even finish Zoro himself, but teamed up with another Yonkou to do so.


You'd be right if it was actually you who had the truth at your disposal. Kaido is confirmed as the WSP by 2 SNs, 1v1 king as a general rule in the OP world ( OP world who knows of the Admirals, Shanks, Mihawk, BM, BB and so forth ) and confirmed to be above the fleet admiral by Oda, also confirmed as the strongest in a 1v1 by the novel.

As for his feats, he has probably the greatest speed feats, best lifting feat with his DF, probably greatest physical strength ( 99% of the verse are 1 shot material, thing unseen to admirals, commanders and for now, even other yonkos ). Ice Age only has that much of an effect on water and it's quite justifiable through physics. Stopped reading at the Zoro part, lol, Zoro's best attack in the manga thus far couldn't bring a knee down at least.


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## Eustathios (May 25, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> You'd be right if it was actually you who had the truth at your disposal. Kaido is confirmed as the WSP by 2 SNs, 1v1 king as a general rule in the OP world ( OP world who knows of the Admirals, Shanks, Mihawk, BM, BB and so forth ) and confirmed to be above the fleet admiral by Oda.


That must mean WB was the WSM in MF too, right?


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## Duhul10 (May 25, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> That must mean WB was the WSM in MF too, right?


No, as it was directly denied by the manga ( and later the novel as an auxiliary source of info )


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## Tenma (May 25, 2021)

Turrin said:


> 1) You realize WB also held the title of WSP too right; so that explanation based on Kaidou being considered a “man” or not, doesn’t work.
> 
> 2) Yes could fight him, means in this context, can beat him. As obviously he is not listing characters that can just fight him, as otherwise he would list the scabbers, kidd, killer, etc... they all fought him, but the implication here is Shanks can win
> 
> 3) Come on man, Oda is obviously drawing a comparison between these characters and Shanks by putting him alongside them.



1) We don't know if Kaido was considered the strongest pirate while WB was alive/prime, and the only time the latter was referred to as such was by Buggy.

2) There is literally no context where 'can fight' means 'can beat', nevermind 'will beat' as you posit.

3) What conclusion are we intended to draw from said comparison though? In my experience literally everyone interpets it differently. To me, it just means 5 guys who could at least fight evenly with Kaido who Luffy reminds him of. To Sera, those are literally the 5 strongest guys ever and noone else can compete with Kaido.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Strobacaxi (May 25, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> No, as it was directly denied by the manga ( and later the novel as an auxiliary source of info )


The manga directly denies Kaido as WSC though, he was shown as BM's equal, has PTSD with Oden and considers Shanks someone that can beat him


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## Eustathios (May 25, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> No, as it was directly denied by the manga ( and later the novel as an auxiliary source of info )


Where was it denied? If you believe Kaido is the strongest because the OP world says so, you have to accept WB's title in MF too. That's what bothers me with you guys. You use double standards when it comes to titles.


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## Duhul10 (May 25, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> The manga directly denies Kaido as WSC though, he was shown as BM's equal, has PTSD with Oden and considers Shanks someone that can beat him


How was he shown as BM's equal? The fact that they didn't end a half serious fight in 5 minutes?
Oden PTSD is non-important, that was young Dragon Kaido, who obviously as we all know got way stronger.
Last line is headcannon

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Duhul10 (May 25, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> Where was it denied? If you believe Kaido is the strongest because the OP world says so, you have to accept WB's title in MF too. That's what bothers me with you guys. You use double standards when it comes to titles.


His form, Marco's statement, Akainu's statement, his heart attacks, everything. He couldn't use CoC, he couldn't use CoO ( not even mentioning something like CoCoA )Like...you need to be blind not to see it, literally.


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## Strobacaxi (May 25, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> How was he shown as BM's equal? The fact that they didn't end a half serious fight in 5 minutes?


1 day* and yes.



Duhul10 said:


> Oden PTSD is non-important, that was young Dragon Kaido, who obviously as we all know got way stronger.


He still considers Oden someone who can beat him



Duhul10 said:


> Last line is headcannon


Sure thing


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## Eustathios (May 25, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> His form, Marco's statement, Akainu's statement, his heart attacks, everything. He couldn't use CoC, he couldn't use CoO ( not even mentioning something like CoCoA )Like...you need to be blind not to see it, literally.


Here's the issue, the OP world believed WB to be the strongest. If you accept that, it means the OP world was correct, hence the same logic can be applied to Kaido's title. 

But if you consider WB not to be the WSM, then the OP world was wrong about him, so Kaido's title can't really be used as proof of anything. It's even worse when you take in consideration that the WSM title was believed by the likes of Sengoku who are extremely knowledgeable on the OP world unlike the common folk which is the case for Kaido. You see the contradict?


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## Duhul10 (May 25, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> 1 day* and yes.
> 
> 
> He still considers Oden someone who can beat him
> ...


Admirals fought 10 days and people still put Akainu > Aokiji

No he does not, he did not even beat him then, fact supported by the anime and the quicness with which he raised in the manga

Thanks for the concession on the last point


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## Duhul10 (May 25, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> Here's the issue, the OP world believed WB to be the strongest. If you accept that, it means the OP world was correct, hence the same logic can be applied to Kaido's title.
> 
> But if you consider WB not to be the WSM, then the OP world was wrong about him, so Kaido's title can't really be used as proof of anything. It's even worse when you take in consideration that the WSM title was believed by the likes of Sengoku who are extremely knowledgeable on the OP world unlike the common folk which is the case for Kaido. You see the contradict?


Unless you prove Kaido hides a secret weakness to elicit a fall in strength, then your entire point falls, bottom-up


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## Eustathios (May 25, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Unless you prove Kaido hides a secret weakness to elicit a fall in strength, then your entire point falls, bottom-up


It does not fall at all. If your argument hinges on the OP world's belief, you have to be willing to use the same standard for anything that involves said people.


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## Duhul10 (May 25, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> It does not fall at all. If your argument hinges on the OP world's belief, you have to be willing to use the same standard for anything that involves said people.


In Kaido's case, it's justified by feats, current form and portrayal.
In WB's case, it wasn't anymore. Unless we'll see a fall in strength, then Kaido's title will still be as good as it gets.


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## Tenma (May 25, 2021)

Velocity said:


> The titles are, largely, meaningless because they only refer to characters _interested in challenging them_.
> 
> For example, Whitebeard may have been called the World's Strongest Man but that doesn't actually mean he was the strongest man because there are plenty of people who were stronger than him but just didn't care to contest his title. Considering he had that title long before Roger's death, do you really think Roger or Garp gave a shit about what people were calling Whitebeard? Of course they didn't.
> 
> ...



They aren't meaningless. It's possible Oda will subvert this, but generally I find it difficult to envision Zoro becoming the WSS because noone else cares to and he isn't actually the strongest given the importance placed upon the Strawhat dreams.

Additionally, given his character and motivations I seriously doubt Whitebeard was going around trying to lay dibs on the WSM title and stopping all other takers.

Are they 100% foolproof and ironclad? Uh nah, and I have never pretended otherwise. But the arguments for Shanks are pretty nuch entirely based on individual speculation.

Shanks and Kaido are both Emperors of global renown. They both have advanced CoC and have split the heavens. Kaido is considered the strongest and Shanks isn't- ergo, advantage Kaido.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Eustathios (May 25, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> In Kaido's case, it's justified by feats, current form and portrayal.
> In WB's case, it wasn't anymore. Unless we'll see a fall in strength, then Kaido's title will still be as good as it gets.


So the OP world was wrong about WB? Good, that means their opinion on Kaido isn't infallible either.


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## Strobacaxi (May 25, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Admirals fought 10 days and people still put Akainu > Aokiji


Because Akainu won. Did Kaido win? 



Duhul10 said:


> No he does not, he did not even beat him then, fact supported by the anime and the quicness with which he raised in the manga


Vivre cards, data books, Ace novel, now anime, any more shitty sources coming our way?
Oden is in the panel of 5



Duhul10 said:


> Thanks for the concession on the last point


What concession? Not going to bother explaining basic reading comprehension to you, it'd be like arguing with an anti-vaxx person

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Duhul10 (May 25, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> So the OP world was wrong about WB? Good, that means their opinion on Kaido isn't infallible either.


No, the OP world was not wrong initially, because initially, WB was the WSM. However, WB's form heavily declined rendering his title non-viable. 

In Kaido's case, the guy shows no sign of weakness whatsoever. He's right where he needs to be physically, hence the title is active.

Capische?


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## Dunno (May 25, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> You'd be right if it was actually you who had the truth at your disposal. Kaido is confirmed as the WSP by 2 SNs, 1v1 king as a general rule in the OP world ( OP world who knows of the Admirals, Shanks, Mihawk, BM, BB and so forth ) and confirmed to be above the fleet admiral by Oda, also confirmed as the strongest in a 1v1 by the novel.
> 
> As for his feats, he has probably the greatest speed feats, best lifting feat with his DF, probably greatest physical strength ( 99% of the verse are 1 shot material, thing unseen to admirals, commanders and for now, even other yonkos ). Ice Age only has that much of an effect on water and it's quite justifiable through physics. Stopped reading at the Zoro part, lol, Zoro's best attack in the manga thus far couldn't bring a knee down at least.


I love how you use the word confirmed, as if any One Piece character could confirm anything. You also seem to forget the SN who calls him "known as the strongest". And no, these guys don't know how strong any top tier is. Hell, they didn't even know about all of Kaido's powers, even though they had fought him before. Did Pica also confirm that he was stronger than Fujitora? Did Moria confirm that he and Oars could have beaten Kaido? Did Squardo confirm that Whitebeard had sold out him and the rest of the allies to the marines?

As I said, his feats are decent, but not the best. His speed feats are about equal to Luffy's, outspeeding him at times, and being outsped by him at times, and his physical feats include being overpowered in a straight up clash by half-body-broken Zoro. He has the best lifting feat, sure, but that's really specific, and not very useful in combat.


Tenma said:


> That he's generally considered the strongest? What would you posit?
> 
> My argument was never that the title was ironclad, just that it's the best argument we have at present anyhow


I would posit that it's because he's generally considered the strongest, but isn't actually the strongest. If he was the strongest, Oda would have simply told us "People say, In a 1v1, always bet on Kaido" and "Among all living things, this man is known as the strongest of all". And I would say that having an almost certainly fake title is evidence detrimental to Kaido, not beneficial.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Duhul10 (May 25, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Because Akainu won. Did Kaido win?
> 
> 
> Vivre cards, data books, Ace novel, now anime, any more shitty sources coming our way?
> ...


Akainu fought 10 days, did Akainu win in a day?
Manga is supported by auxilliary sources. I don't consider the anime canon, but it's yet another nail in the coffin.
Oden being in the panel of 5 is good to him, yes, and?
Not arguing more on your last paragraph, not worth my time.


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## Strobacaxi (May 25, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Akainu fought 10 days, did Akainu win in a day?


I don't remember Akainu and Aokiji making an alliance because they couldn't become FA while the other lived
Because that's what BM and Kaido did. They allied because they couldn't beat each other. They couldn't get the OP if they fought between them. How is that hard to understand seriously lol



Duhul10 said:


> Oden being in the panel of 5 is good to him, yes, and?


You see, when you get damaged for the first time in ages and you say "Only a few people can fight me like that" the people you're thinking about can beat you. It's really not that hard


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## Duhul10 (May 25, 2021)

Dunno said:


> I love how you use the word confirmed, as if any One Piece character could confirm anything. You also seem to forget the SN who calls him "known as the strongest". And no, these guys don't know how strong any top tier is. Hell, they didn't even know about all of Kaido's powers, even though they had fought him before. Did Pica also confirm that he was stronger than Fujitora? Did Moria confirm that he and Oars could have beaten Kaido? Did Squardo confirm that Whitebeard had sold out him and the rest of the allies to the marines?
> 
> As I said, his feats are decent, but not the best. His speed feats are about equal to Luffy's, outspeeding him at times, and being outsped by him at times, and his physical feats include being overpowered in a straight up clash by half-body-broken Zoro. He has the best lifting feat, sure, but that's really specific, and not very useful in combat.
> 
> I would posit that it's because he's generally considered the strongest, but isn't actually the strongest. If he was the strongest, Oda would have simply told us "People say, In a 1v1, always bet on Kaido" and "Among all living things, this man is known as the strongest of all". And I would say that having an almost certainly fake title is evidence detrimental to Kaido, not beneficial.


This post is wrong on so mamy levels. Ok...
Again, 2 SN's, who met with Kaido and other top tiers before confirm he is the WSP. 1 SN who DID NOT FIGHT ANOTHER TOP TIER BEFORE ( like in a serious fight of course ) says he is known as the strongest. Why doesn't he deny it though? Zoro has no clue, the other 2 do.
The comparisons to other statements are just as bad as the intro of your post, as they are not objective comparisons, but rather certain people bumping their chests and saying their almighty.

Again, as for his feats, they are the best bar none. He just wrecked a double power up Luffy, who can see the future and has CoCoA. Zoro got oneshotted by him, so dunno what you're going with. Zoro blocked some casual swings and then got a hit in, but that was about all he could do. The guy's putting down SN after SN and now he is dissapointed cause not even these guys could actually push him too far.

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## Duhul10 (May 25, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> I don't remember Akainu and Aokiji making an alliance because they couldn't become FA while the other lived
> Because that's what BM and Kaido did. They allied because they couldn't beat each other. They couldn't get the OP if they fought between them. How is that hard to understand seriously lol
> 
> 
> You see, when you get damaged for the first time in ages and you say "Only a few people can fight me like that" the people you're thinking about can beat you. It's really not that hard


Kaido literally calls BM useless or something like that. BM herself tells aluffy that he can't beat that *monster.* There is quite a difference in portrayal. Also, they only fought for 1 day. I'm repeating this to you, 1 day is not much for 2 top tiers, who are both yonko and obviously close in level, even if one edges the other one out.

as for the second paragraph...I'm just sorry, but the manga doesn't say that and I do not accept headcannon, I'm really sorry, but I appreciate the attempt.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Eustathios (May 25, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> No, the OP world was not wrong initially, because initially, WB was the WSM. However, WB's form heavily declined rendering his title non-viable.
> 
> In Kaido's case, the guy shows no sign of weakness whatsoever. He's right where he needs to be physically, hence the title is active.
> 
> Capische?


Sengoku, one of the smartest and most informed characters called him the WSM even after seeing his condition. If Sengoku's opinion can be wrong, why should I believe Kid and Killer's word?


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## Duhul10 (May 25, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> Sengoku, one of the smartest and most informed characters called him the WSM even after seeing his condition. If Sengoku's opinion can be wrong, why should I believe Kid and Killer's word?


When was the last time they met? When was the last time WB confronted any other pirate directly, in a battle? 

Kid and Killer were by far more up to date, because both them and the other yonkos are more active than WB and Semgoku were. WB's form was a shock even for his men, come on now...


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## Velocity (May 25, 2021)

Tenma said:


> They aren't meaningless. It's possible Oda will subvert this, but generally I find it difficult to envision Zoro becoming the WSS because noone else cares to and he isn't actually the strongest given the importance placed upon the Strawhat dreams.
> 
> Additionally, given his character and motivations I seriously doubt Whitebeard was going around trying to lay dibs on the WSM title and stopping all other takers.
> 
> ...


I don't mean they're meaningless because *nobody* else cares, I mean they're meaningless because only so many people do. 

Mihawk became the World's Strongest Swordsman after he ran out of people willing to challenge him for the title and the reason he's still the World's Strongest Swordsman is because everyone that has tried to take that title from him has thus far failed.

The problem is, of course, that there are undoubtedly some swordsmen out there who simply don't care about titles. I mentioned Oden before as an example of someone stronger than Mihawk that wouldn't be interested in his title and it's unlikely he's the only one.

The same is true for Whitebeard. There was probably no shortage of people out there looking to make a name for themselves by taking down Whitebeard and claiming his title of World's Strongest Man. Between them, rival pirate crews and bounty hunters, I'd imagine Whitebeard took out a lot of contenders for his title over the years.

The problem is, however, that we know of at least two people that simply did not care about it. There is no doubt at all that Gol D. Roger was stronger than Whitebeard, but why would he chase the title of World's Strongest Man when he sought an even greater title in Pirate King? Garp is no different. Like Roger he was definitely stronger than Whitebeard but he doesn't chase titles or promotions. All he cares about is training new recruits and maybe one day killing Akainu for what he did to Ace.

Like I said before, Kaido is arguably the only exception to this because the moniker of "World's Strongest Beast" likely only refers to those with Zoan fruit powers. Which, if that's truly the case, means his title is entirely irrelevant to any comparisons between him and Shanks because Shanks doesn't have any devil fruit powers at all. Kaido, after all, was not as strong as Whitebeard and Shanks himself stopped Kaido from reaching Marineford two years ago. That by itself is much more relevant to the discussion than any titles.


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## Eustathios (May 25, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> When was the last time they met? When was the last time WB confronted any other pirate directly, in a battle?
> 
> Kid and Killer were by far more up to date, because both them and the other yonkos are more active than WB and Semgoku were. WB's form was a shock even for his men, come on now...


My man, Sengoku literally saw fodder like Squardo hit WB. Are you trying to imply Kid and Killer know more about the Yonko than the head of the Marines, whose literal job is to keep them in check

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## Duhul10 (May 25, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> My man, Sengoku literally saw fodder like Squardo hit WB. Are you trying to imply Kid and Killer know more about the Yonko than the head of the Marines, whose literal job is to keep them in check


So do you have an answer to what I've asked you? Sengoku didn't know shit about WB's current form, hell not even WB's men knew the extent.


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## Dunno (May 25, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> This post is wrong on so mamy levels. Ok...
> Again, 2 SN's, who met with Kaido and other top tiers before confirm he is the WSP. 1 SN who DID NOT FIGHT ANOTHER TOP TIER BEFORE ( like in a serious fight of course ) says he is known as the strongest. Why doesn't he deny it though? Zoro has no clue, the other 2 do.
> The comparisons to other statements are just as bad as the intro of your post, as they are not objective comparisons, but rather certain people bumping their chests and saying their almighty.
> 
> Again, as for his feats, they are the best bar none. He just wrecked a double power up Luffy, who can see the future and has CoCoA. Zoro got oneshotted by him, so dunno what you're going with. Zoro blocked some casual swings and then got a hit in, but that was about all he could do. The guy's putting down SN after SN and now he is dissapointed cause not even these guys could actually push him too far.


And those 2 SN didn't even know if they could hurt Kaido. That tells you all you need to know about their credibility. Again, characters in One Piece have very limited information, and they don't confirm anything. 

Wrecking Luffy isn't very impressive. Whatever skills Luffy has is irrelevant, what matters is his strength, and that hasn't impressed yet. Zoro was defeated by him and Big Mom using a combined finisher, and Kaido wasn't even strong enough to block an attack from Zoro who had already been "one-shot" as you put it. Let's say that again: Kaido was overpowered by an already defeated Zoro. That's the extent of his physical feats.

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## Eustathios (May 25, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> So do you have an answer to what I've asked you? Sengoku didn't know shit about WB's current form, hell not even WB's men knew the extent.


I answered already. Sengoku saw WB's condition when Squardo stabbed him. He just wasn't loud like Croc. Again, you believe Kid and Killer know more about the Yonko than the man whose job is to know the Yonko's status and movements?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Duhul10 (May 25, 2021)

Dunno said:


> And those 2 SN didn't even know if they could hurt Kaido. That tells you all you need to know about their credibility. Again, characters in One Piece have very limited information, and they don't confirm anything.
> 
> Wrecking Luffy isn't very impressive. Whatever skills Luffy has is irrelevant, what matters is his strength, and that hasn't impressed yet. Zoro was defeated by him and Big Mom using a combined finisher, and Kaido wasn't even strong enough to block an attack from Zoro who had already been "one-shot" as you put it. Let's say that again: Kaido was overpowered by an already defeated Zoro. That's the extent of his physical feats.


Forgot you're a zoro/Mihawk fanboy, srry, now that I have this in mind, I'll be even calmer. Ok, so... Zoro would've been erased from existence in 2 seconds by an attack where Kaido put let's say 50%, ok? This is a first, just to see the immense gap between them ( and not only Zoro, but the whole of the RT5 )

Then, Zoro used his greatest technique which allowed him two things: to block some swings and to get a cut in ( which left a small scar, which did not bother Kaido ). Afterwards, Kaido shat on 2 sn's in 1 attack. Also, that was a Kaido who had just recieved a shot to the neck, after almost f*cking up Zoro ( who had to be saved again by Law ).
1 v1, Zoro is trashed, attacks like Ragnarruku or hybrid Bagua blitz him just like they did to his captain and to the guy who can teleport.


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## Duhul10 (May 25, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> I answered already. Sengoku saw WB's condition when Squardo stabbed him. He just wasn't loud like Croc. Again, you believe Kid and Killer know more about the Yonko than the man whose job is to know the Yonko's status and movements?


Yes, fighting some guys gives you more info about them than sitting at your desk and not even having an idea about the sickness of the enemy. Like, Sengoku actually did a bad job as an FA. He had no idea about anything happening. He didn't know about WB, he didn't know about Akainu and Squardo's deal, he didn't know shit.


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## Eustathios (May 25, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Yes, fighting some guys gives you more info about them than sitting at your desk and not even having an idea about the sickness of the enemy. Like, Sengoku actually did a bad job as an FA.


Is that why even lower ranking Marines like the one who explained the bounties know about the Yonko crews' strength, how and when they became Yonko, what territories they are taking over, etc...No, apparently the man assigned by the WG as the head of their military power actually doesn't have much info 


Duhul10 said:


> He had no idea about anything happening. He didn't know about WB, he didn't know about Akainu and Squardo's deal, he didn't know shit.


Sengoku was the mastermind behind the Squardo plot. He literally saw WB's condition just like Croc. Why are you dodging the question? If Sengoku can be wrong, the OP world isn't infallible.

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## Duhul10 (May 25, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> Is that why even lower ranking Marines like the one who explained the bounties know about the Yonko crews' strength, how and when they became Yonko, what territories they are taking over, etc...No, apparently the man assigned by the WG as the head of their military power actually doesn't have much info
> 
> Sengoku was the mastermind behind the Squardo plot. He literally saw WB's condition just like Croc. Why are you dodging the question? If Sengoku can be wrong, the OP world isn't infallible.


We're going in circles...at this point I don't even know what your point is, if you have one. If you fail to see the fall of WB, the WB who had earned that title, then it isn't me the one to open your eyes. Consider it an agree to disagree, because I'm already debating 3 people on 3 threads and it takes too much time


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## Eustathios (May 25, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> We're going in circles...at this point I don't even know what your point is, if you have one. If you fail to see the fall of WB, the WB who had earned that title, then it isn't me the one to open your eyes. Consider it an agree to disagree, because I'm already debating 3 people on 3 threads and it takes too much time


My point is pretty clear. If someone like Sengoku, who has vast resources and is literally assigned with keeping the Yonko in check can be wrong about them, then the OP world, most of whom are woefully ignorant on what goes on with the top powers relations due to WG propaganda, are not nearly infallible. Their opinion can be wrong. Kaido's title is in verse hype at best. Nothing beyond that.

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## Dunno (May 25, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Forgot you're a zoro/Mihawk fanboy, srry, now that I have this in mind, I'll be even calmer*.* Ok, so... Zoro would've been erased from existence in 2 seconds by an attack where Kaido put let's say 50%, ok? This is a first, just to see the immense gap between them ( and not only Zoro, but the whole of the RT5 )
> 
> Then, Zoro used his greatest technique which allowed him two things: to block some swings and to get a cut in ( which left a small scar, which did not bother Kaido ). Afterwards, Kaido shat on 2 sn's in 1 attack. Also, that was a Kaido who had just recieved a shot to the neck, after almost f*cking up Zoro ( who had to be saved again by Law ).
> 1 v1, Zoro is trashed, attacks like Ragnarruku or hybrid Bagua blitz him just like they did to his captain and to the guy who can teleport.


You don't think Zoro with 20-30 broken bones blocking Kaido's attack, knocking his weapon out of the way and cutting him severely enough to scar him and make him shiver is a detrimental feat for Kaido? And you call me a Zoro fanboy. Kaido didn't shit on 2 SN. He hit 2 SN, and Law took some damage, but was fine afterwards, while Zoro who was already immobilized on the ground took some damage, but not enough to be knocked out.

Zoro isn't the one who lacks 1v1 feats, Kaido is. The only time Kaido seriously hurt Zoro was in a 2v1 together with Big Mom, while Zoro hurt Kaido seriously in a straight 1v1 clash.

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## Yonko RedHair Shanks (May 25, 2021)

It would be a fight to the death in extreme difficulty, also in 1vs1 always bet on Kaido.


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## Turrin (May 25, 2021)

Tenma said:


> 1) We don't know if Kaido was considered the strongest pirate while WB was alive/prime, and the only time the latter was referred to as such was by Buggy.
> 
> 2) There is literally no context where 'can fight' means 'can beat', nevermind 'will beat' as you posit.
> 
> 3) What conclusion are we intended to draw from said comparison though? In my experience literally everyone interpets it differently. To me, it just means 5 guys who could at least fight evenly with Kaido who Luffy reminds him of. To Sera, those are literally the 5 strongest guys ever and noone else can compete with Kaido.


1) The Ace Novel calls him WSC even back then; so unless WSC doesn’t include pirates then... And Buggy said that was WB’s fame

2)  The context where Scabbers and other characters who can fight Kaidou but can’t beat him didn’t appear 

3) If they can fight evenly with him that means they can beat him. But also every other one of those guys stomp Kaidou out, so why would Shanks be different


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## Perrin (May 25, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Killer used no "people say" and not that the use of those words would matter, it only translates into "this is common knowledge in the OP world". Also the Ace novel used no "people say".
> 
> And so on and so forth. You people hanging onto those 2 words as if they actually mean something...it's become pityworth...for real.


Killer is a person, one of the people, the people who say

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## Duhul10 (May 25, 2021)

Perrin said:


> Killer is a person, one of the people, the people who say


Oda is also a person, the next thing he needs to do to convince people even further that Kaido is currently the 1v1 King is to go out naked and start shouting it. But even then...isn't he also a person ?


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## Perrin (May 25, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Oda is also a person, the next thing he needs to do to convince people even further that Kaido is currently the 1v1 King is to go out naked and start shouting it. But even then...isn't he also a person ?


Nah thatd be him talking about himself in the third person as an entity outside the manga, that is some metaphysical fourth wall shenanigans

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## TheWiggian (May 25, 2021)

*Kaido looks up to great men*1:* _WB, Roger, Xebec, Shanks, Oden_ (fact all 5 are pirates) _just like him (*ruling out any other factions like Revos, Government Agents/SSG, Marines et cetera*)._

Symbolically *all of the pirates* that flashed up in Kaido's mind *are portrayed superior to him*.
You might argue that they were more successful than him but considering _the fact Kaido would've lost to Oden if not for the hostage trick_ and _canonically been portrayed_ to eat an "L" from each one of them *when he tried to measure himself with them* (clashing with Shanks, WB, Roger), i think that's out of question.

Thankfully the latest chapters confirmed the standing regarding the strongest pirates in existence.


*Spoiler*: _*1_ 





WB:



Roger:



Oden:



Shanks:



Xebec:






The picture completes:


*Spoiler*: __ 









_How high will your ceiling go?_ Don't think this needs to be discussed as Luffy is destined to stand above Kaido like all the other 5 pirates. Noteworthy symbolism on top, none of them is Luffy's ceiling as *he will surpass* *all of them.*



Let's look at the rumour regarding the strongest creature. Kaido is multiple times connected to not being a human**2* yet still referred to as a man**3*:


*Spoiler*: _*2_ 










*Spoiler*: _*3_ 









*If creature involves humans* and *Kaido is referred to as a man* why does Oda goes out of his way to *just give him the WSM title?*

_Kaido's species + the devilfruit_ he received from his older sister that transforms him into a mythical creature on top of his race gives him unique advantages a normal human cannot have. Since humans are stated to be the weakest species/race in one piece with the inability to *breath under water with 10x less strength compared* to a *fishman* (another species, that's hailed superior to the human organism), not capable of flight (without special training like geppou/DF powers) and having *a normal body that isn't impervious to damage* unlike *Kaido's.*


*Spoiler*: _Further reinforced by the price list of the races/species_ 









That's the main reason he is *considered/rumoured* to be the strongest *creature* and the one that is likely to come out of a fight alive (bet on him in a one on one**4*) compared to others *despite being a man:*


*Spoiler*: _*4_ 









Oda goes pretty far to *not* outright *call Kaido the ironclad strongest being/creature in the manga* and does so in *interviews/SBS too*5:*


*Spoiler*: _*5_ 











With that cleared out... Why was Kaido not a thing when *old WB, the world's strongest man was alive? *

Short answer: _WB was the King, *the strongest pirate* after Roger was gone *despite his old age.* *The closest man to the One Piece.* It was *his era* and *he was the ruler of seas* that *prevented* *anyone* not worthy *to grab the throne* Roger left empty:_


*Spoiler*: __ 










*Spoiler*: __ 









*WB receives praise far beyond Kaido in both strength and achievements* and with him gone, the one who could've became king if he wanted to, the only other from the worst generation that is promising and actually accomplishes things is *Blackbeard*6:*


*Spoiler*: _*6_ 









You're only praising WB here. I have no reason to believe Shanks is above Kaido (which this thread is about). Let's expand on this fella now.

*What do we know about Shanks?*

- _He inherited Roger's hat with which the legacy started._ *Roger saw in Shanks, what Shanks saw in Luffy.* 

- Despite being a _peaceful individual_ and *only a Yonko for 6 years he amassed a bounty of 4.048.900.000 B* while Big Mom and Kaido are at least 1-2 decades longer on the sea as active pirates and are barely higher despite being eager to go to war and kill anything in their path.
- Having _big name subordinates_ under his command including a partner that is *the moon to Shanks sun*, indicating *similiarity to Roger and his partner Dark King Rayleigh.* 
*Spoiler*: __ 












- *Legendary duels with Mihawk* that reached *Whitebeard's ears* and *shook the grandline.* Compared to that no one else received anything praiseworthy from the other yonko.
- *Canonically already send Kaido hiking before Marineford when the 2 faced each other.* And the man that cannot be reasoned with was nowhere to be found while Shanks showed up at MF. 
- *Shanks is planned for the endgame alongside Blackbeard and Sakazuki.* Regardless who of the 3 is involved, *all are connected to the PK title and having all the freedom on the seas.* _Luffy also still wants to prove his superiority to Shanks_ after he goes through the other 3 Yonko. 

With the latest reveal in terms of haki the deal is sealed. There is just no way Kaido can edge this out.

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