# Difficulty Zoro beats Vergo with



## Jeep Brah (Feb 15, 2015)

Vote and explain.


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## Dr. White (Feb 15, 2015)

Toss Up Extreme Difficulty either way.


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## MrWano (Feb 15, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> Toss Up Extreme Difficulty either way.



This


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## Ruse (Feb 15, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> Toss Up Extreme Difficulty either way.



This


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## Freechoice (Feb 15, 2015)

extreme diff

wut

most of you would know im the furthest from a zoro wanker but shit...

Vergo ain't that strong

Zoro high diff


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## Bernkastel (Feb 15, 2015)

Zoro high diff.Not much to explain really.


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## Wayne With The Ism (Feb 15, 2015)

Zoro extreme diff.


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Feb 15, 2015)

Does 1 shot count as low diff?


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## Canute87 (Feb 15, 2015)

High difficulty.  Zoro always tries to overpower his opponents not outwit them but sword slashes will essentially will be more effective.
'


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## Luke (Feb 15, 2015)

High difficulty.


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## Dr. White (Feb 15, 2015)

What has Zoro done to warrant him beating Vergo with High diff? Base Vergo could arguably beat Sanji/Smoker...


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## Canute87 (Feb 15, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> What has Zoro done to warrant him beating Vergo with High diff? Base Vergo could arguably beat Sanji/Smoker...



Zoro stalemated with Fujitora.


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## Dr. White (Feb 15, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> Zoro stalemated with Fujitora.



That's low tier shit bruh, Buggy did that as well.


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## Ekkologix (Feb 15, 2015)

Probably Zoro wins high diff or high to extreme diff.

Vergo is pretty strong man. He didn't get a chance to show how badass his Full Haki mode is.

But then again, Zoro still have to show us 100% of his strength and that's why i'm going with high diff instead of extreme diff. Who knows how strong Zoro might be.

I wonder how good Zoro's CoA is aswell.


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## Freechoice (Feb 15, 2015)

all this extreme diff bullshit is giving me a boner


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## Turrin (Feb 15, 2015)

Zoro vs Vergo back in PH would probably have been extreme diff with it potentially going ether way. DR, Zoro would probably High (High) or at absolute best High (Mid) diff him.


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## Empathy (Feb 15, 2015)

The guy broke Smoker's jutte and Sanji's leg (their best weapons), and he wasn't even trying his hardest. That's nearly similar to breaking one of Zoro's or Law's swords, or one of Luffy's arms. It'd be extreme difficulty if he even wins at all. Really, Zoro doesn't have the feats that best what Doflamingo's best man did to other M3-level fighters, but he hasn't really exerted himself that much since the time-skip. He could win because he's proficient in armament, cutting force would inflict more damage than blunt force, and Zoro has great endurance to resist blunt force. It'd still be toss-up either way.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Feb 16, 2015)

It could have gone either way, but for now, I'm going to stick to my belief that Law and Luffy were the only two people on Punk Hazard who could have beaten Vergo.


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## NO (Feb 16, 2015)

Zoro wins mid-diff. Vergo has no handicap to rely on.


> - Law is walking alongside Monet when he suddenly experiences *chestpains*.
> - *Law** falls to the ground*, *bleeding *from his mouth.
> - Law turns around and Vergo is introduced.
> - *Vergo attacks a panting Law *with a CoA hardened bamboo stick.
> ...


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## Amol (Feb 16, 2015)

Zoro wins with high diff.


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Feb 16, 2015)

1080p cannon and Vergo is done

Zoro can 1 shot him with one of his mid-level moves

On a good day Zoro can beat him just by glaring


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## trance (Feb 16, 2015)

Zoro edges it.


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## NO (Feb 16, 2015)

Trance said:


> Zoro edges it.


What does that even mean?


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## Sherlōck (Feb 16, 2015)

No less or more than High Difficulty.


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## Suit (Feb 16, 2015)

High high or extreme. He isn't coming out of this without near-mortal wounds.


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## Captain Altintop (Feb 16, 2015)

Luffy >= Vergo >= Zoro imo.

Vergo extreme diffs here.


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## TheWiggian (Feb 16, 2015)

Zoro high diff.


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## Pirao (Feb 16, 2015)

High diff at most. With how underwhelming the seats have been, I wouldn't be surprised if the "trouble" Sanji had with Vergo was just fake tension, like Monet and Luffy's BS.


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## kidgogeta (Feb 16, 2015)

Imo anything higher than mid diff is out of the question.

As a side note, people need to stop scaling Pica down to the level of Diamante and Trebol, and then using that to conclude that Vergo > Pica.There is no basis for it.


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## Vengeance (Feb 16, 2015)

Vergo is somewhere between Zoro and Sanji in strength imo, so I would say very high difficulty.


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## tanman (Feb 16, 2015)

Goes either way. Depends on who get serious first.


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## ShadowReaper (Feb 16, 2015)

High to high+


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## X18999 (Feb 16, 2015)

Zoro mid diff at worst... this Vergo wank is getting to Vista level... dude was one shot.


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## Dr. White (Feb 16, 2015)

jayjay?? said:


> Zoro wins mid-diff. Vergo has no handicap to rely on.



this has nothing to do with Zoro. Law is stronger than zoro and his abilities better suited to beating opponents with ease. Zoro is going to have to cut through Vergo's experienced COA Haki with his Barely New World experienced Haki. Vergo without Hardening Haki took 2 DJ's to the face and upper body, 2 haki hits from Smoker, and a countershock from Law, without showing any signs of slowing down. 

 Vergo's Oni Take alone has the firepower to bust through a Haki Jutte, and take out smoker in one blow. Once FBH comes out Zoro would be pushed to extreme diff and be forced to pull out his Sunday's best, ala 1080 P, and Ashura. An Oni Take in FBH would be devastating, and given Vergo's tank ability it's going to be very very close.


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## Luke (Feb 16, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> What has Zoro done to warrant him beating Vergo with High diff? *Base Vergo could arguably beat Sanji/Smoker*...



Based on what?


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## Roronoa-zoro (Feb 16, 2015)

Alright, I'll admit it, I originally thought that Vergo was not that far off the Seats, but after the latest events I'm not that sure anymore.

So, considering what he did to Sanji, having an opinion that Vergo can beat Zoro in not controversial at all. But still, you can't deny the fact that Zoro clashed with an Admiral twice and even pushed him a few meters back with his slash and didn't get K.O'd. 

I think we can agree that based on that and that he trained with the WSS for 2 years is enough for this fight to be an extreme diff. fight either way.


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## Kaiser (Feb 16, 2015)

The seats aren't that weak. When you see how Franky was pushed to extreme difficulty by a regular executive, not even portrayed to be the strongest one, when you see Robin calling the seats "monsters", you know these guys should be beasts. These guys are all monster trio level fighters. Vergo is stronger than them, but not with as large a margin as people here really think. 

Kyros beating Diamante(we're not even sure is actually defeated yet) just prove how strong he is and that he was not hyped for nothing. The truth is that many people underestimated Kyros because of lack of feats, and thinking his hype of being capable to take down Doflamingo was just a joke. As a result, him defeating Diamante somehow gives a negative effect on the seats when in reality Kyros' hype could have actually not being that far-fetched. Diamante even underestimated his power, thinking that with his handicaps he can't do anything to him and he paid the price. The fact Diamante is also portrayed as a joker doesn't help OL to actually take him seriously. The only complain i have with him is that Oda only really showed 1interesting attack coming from him(the half moon thing). It's sad and disappointing

As for the answer of this question, i'll wait the end of the fight versus Pica, but from a portrayal point of view, i think Zoro should edge this


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## Sanji (Feb 16, 2015)

Issho said:


> It could have gone either way, but for now, I'm going to stick to my belief that Law and Luffy were the only two people on Punk Hazard who could have beaten Vergo.



This.

.


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## DarkRasengan (Feb 16, 2015)

Vengeance said:


> Vergo is somewhere between Zoro and Sanji in strength imo, so I would say very high difficulty.



That's not possible, judging by cp9 douriki, and sanji and zoro being their respective opponents, and sanji having less difficulty with his opponent, Jyabura is 99.1% as strong as kaku, and since they are meant to parallel zoro and sanji, I can't see anyone fitting into that .9 percent.

That being said, zoro wins this extreme difficulty, in a daz bones like fight.


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## King plasma (Feb 16, 2015)

This is actually a good match up in favour of Zoro. Good luck trying to tank Zoro's slashes, Vergo. Unless Vergo has some armour plating on top of his haki he can't afford to get a direct hit from Zoro.


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## Coruscation (Feb 16, 2015)

Vergo will be the one getting a rude awakening just like he did with Law.

You're kidding yourself and just delaying your eventual forced acceptance of the inevitable if you think Mihawk-trained Zoro is going to be the one who struggles.

Zoro wins with high difficulty. It might hover close to extreme, but no cigar.


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## Arkash (Feb 16, 2015)

Zoro mid diff


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 16, 2015)

Empathy said:


> The guy broke Smoker's jutte and Sanji's leg (their best weapons), and he wasn't even trying his hardest. That's nearly similar to breaking one of Zoro's or Law's swords, or one of Luffy's arms. It'd be extreme difficulty if he even wins at all. Really, Zoro doesn't have the feats that best what Doflamingo's best man did to other M3-level fighters, but he hasn't really exerted himself that much since the time-skip. He could win because he's proficient in armament, cutting force would inflict more damage than blunt force, and Zoro has great endurance to resist blunt force. It'd still be toss-up either way.



Going with Empathy on this.



Luke said:


> Based on what?



Based on Base Vergo beating Smoker with mid diff. 

Based on Base Vergo without Bamboo casually cracking Sanjis leg bone.


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## Amol (Feb 16, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Going with Empathy on this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice Fanfiction.


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## Amol (Feb 16, 2015)

You probably missed the part where Smoker lost on purpose for Law or how his blows were actually harming Vergo unlike Luffy who was fine after the fight with Chinjao which is how a mid diff fight is supposed to go.
Some fine Smoker underestimation and Vergo overestimation going on here.


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## Venom (Feb 16, 2015)

Sanji said:


> This.
> 
> .



Shut up no. 7
Only cause Vergo could beat you mid diff doesn't mean he can beat me 

OT:
Zoro solid high diff.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 16, 2015)

Amol said:


> You probably missed the part where Smoker lost on purpose.



False.

But Irrelevant nonetheless.  

If Smoker handicapped himself thats fine does not change the difficulty in which Vergo defeated him. 

Zoro only had two swords against Ryuuma. Did Ryuuma not give Zoro a high diff fight? 



> for Law or how his blows were actually harming Vergo* unlike Luffy who was fine after the fight with Chinjao* which is how a mid diff fight is supposed to go.



Nice fanfic.

1. Luffy said he was tired after his fight with Chinjao.

2. Vergo was injuried but was acting his usual self after his fight with Smoker, his injuries were in no way severe. 

Usually in High diff fights between brawlers the injuries for both parties are pretty high(Mr.2/Sanji for example) That was not the case here. Smoker was on the ground, and Vergo was still ready to fight another powerful opponent.


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## Coruscation (Feb 16, 2015)

Mr. 2 vs Sanji was borderline if not real extreme diff. Sanji fell to the ground, was barely conscious and had several ribs broken. That isn't your average high diff fight. As for Smoker vs. Vergo, Vergo was the one Oda depicted getting smacked around before Smoker suicided and Oda explicitly informed us he only lost due to said behavior. Get the fuck out of here with _mid diff_.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 16, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> Mr. 2 vs Sanji was borderline if not real extreme diff. Sanji fell to the ground, was barely conscious and had several ribs broken. That isn't your average high diff fight.



Fair enough but my point still stands High diff fight usually has note worthy injuries in the case of brawlers cause they are kind of well you know beating the shit out of each other with blunt force. 

Mid diff not really, but like everything it depends on the circumstances, ability's, ect. 




> As for Smoker vs. Vergo, Vergo was the one Oda depicted getting smacked around before Smoker suicided and Oda explicitly* informed us he only lost due to said behavior.* Get the fuck out of here with _mid diff_.



I recall Chinajo pressuring Luffy as well before Luffy took out a high level G2 move(Which did Shit). Then Luffy put him down for good. 

Might want to rephrase the bold, as you make it sound like Oda tried to imply Smoker could of won if he fought differently which is in fact the opposite. If Smoker thought he could defeat Vergo he would of never fought the way he did. 

Regardless the way he fought is irrelevant, Smoker got a few hits in and then got put down. That's a mid diff fight. Does not matter if Smoker could actually low diff Vergo if he fought differently, thats not what happened. If Luffy and Sanji fight, Sanji gets two good hits on Luffy with DJ and then Luffy one shots him with Red Hawk thats not a High diff fight.


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## Amol (Feb 16, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> False.
> 
> But Irrelevant nonetheless.
> 
> ...


How is Ryuma example even comparable to this ?
Both of them were trying to win .
Smoker was purposefully making himself a bigger target.
Vergo even commented on that .
It is balantly clear that Smoker was only trying to distract Vergo to get Law's heart. 
This is relevant because you are trying to use result of this circumstantial fight as argument in a different fight.
This is not how it works.


> Nice fanfic.
> 
> 1. Luffy said he was *tired *after his fight with Chinjao.
> 
> ...


Yes Luffy was bit tired but he had no injuries whatsoever hence he was fine.
Vergo wasn't just tired .
And yet again you missed the point why Smoker was on ground.
This is what happens when you ignore the context in favor of black and white facts.
Smoker is not getting mid diffed by Vergo.
He is Luffy's marine rival.
Luffy high diffs Vergo so he should be able to low diff Smoker then, right?
Vergo vs Smoker match itself is debatable let alone mid diff.


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## Coruscation (Feb 16, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Fair enough but my point still stands High diff fight usually has note worthy injuries in the case of brawlers cause they are kind of well you know beating the shit out of each other with blunt force.
> 
> Mid diff not really, but like everything it depends on the circumstances, ability's, ect.
> 
> ...



The Terminator doesn't show his injuries easily. Doesn't mean he's not injured. Smoker was literally bashing Vergo's face in and that's what Oda chose to show us from their fight when he only had a brief panel in which to show it.

Show me Chinjao bashing Luffy's face in and you will have a point. He managed to make Luffy go "Wah!" as he dodged and a Hasshoken shockwave pierced his guard once. Smoker flat out outperformed Vergo and landed a hit on his face. He was later shown contorting his face with an elbow. Not comparable.

No, it doesn't imply that. It implies he only lost because he suicided. That is true.

Fine then; it was an extreme diff fight at first and then it became a mid diff fight as Smoker suicided. The point is that your original point, that "Smoker got mid-diffed by base Vergo", is misleading. It's like saying Luffy got low-diffed by Caesar Clown and using that as evidence of Caesar beating Law or something.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 16, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> The Terminator doesn't show his injuries easily. Doesn't mean he's not injured.Smoker was literally bashing Vergo's face in and that's what Oda chose to show us from their fight when he only had a brief panel in which to show it.



I'm not saying he was Un-injured just not a lot. 

Surely we can agree That Hawk Rifle>Hardened Rocket Punch from smoker, and that Hawk Rifle>>>Hardened Elbow to the face.

Those are the two things we see Smoker hit Vergo with, and Chinjao laughed off Hawk Rifle. 





> Show me Chinjao bashing Luffy's face in and you will have a point. He managed to make Luffy go "Wah!" as he dodged and a Hasshoken shockwave pierced his guard once. Smoker flat out outperformed Vergo and landed a hit on his face. He was later shown contorting his face with an elbow. Not comparable.



It shows that Chinjao presumably had the edge as he was the one showed landing the blows and penetrating his opponents defenses. 

Not that it matters.

Smoker was shown to be winning at the start  So what? 



> No, it doesn't imply that. It implies he only lost because he suicided. That is true.



It implies that Smoker was not fighting optimally which is why he lost that quickly. 






> Fine then; it was an extreme diff fight at first and then it became a mid diff fight as Smoker suicided.



It was a nothing diff fight cause the fight was not over yet. 



> The point is that your original point, that "Smoker got mid-diffed by base Vergo", is misleading. It's like saying Luffy got low-diffed by Caesar Clown and using that as evidence of Caesar beating Law or something.



Not misleading.

Vergo did in fact defeat Smoker and the defeat can in fact be used to argue Vergos strength over Smoker. You can also use Caesars victory over Luffy against Law or whoever you so pick. 

But it should go without saying that you should take circumstances in to account, and use more then One single thing of evidence as your whole argument. Hence no one thinks Luffy is weaker then CC, nor do i think if Vergo fought Smoker again he would mid diff smoker in base.

Was Smoker fighting at 100 percent No, but its not like he had both his arms restricted. He in fact was fighting the way he usually does, using one of the few things his devil fruit even gives him which is mobility and speed to outmaneuver his opponent to hit them. If Smoker was fighting the way he should of been as  vergo stated, i can easily argue he would of not of even gotten the two hits on Vergo that he did in their fight.



Amol said:


> How is Ryuma example even comparable to this ?
> Both of them were trying to win .
> Smoker was purposefully making himself a bigger target.
> Vergo even commented on that .
> ...




Both Fighters Zoro/Smoker were not fighting at 100 percent. 

Yes Smoker was using his devil fruit the way he usually does in order to get laws heart, and in the process you might of noticed he was also smashing Vergos face in. All of which is irrelevant cause it does not change the amount of Damage or effort Vergo put into beating Smoker. Which was mid. 







> Yes Luffy was bit tired but he had no injuries whatsoever hence he was fine.
> Vergo wasn't just tired .



Believe it or not you can get hurt in a mid diff fight. 

Vergo was still in fighting condition just like Luffy. Oda made no nods towards Vergos declining physical state despite him fighting law, and Sanji before hand. Yet Luffy was tired just after fighting Chinjao. 

Bias much? Vergo was fine just like Luffy. 



> And yet again you missed the point why Smoker was on ground.
> This is what happens when you ignore the context in favor of black and white facts.
> Smoker is not getting mid diffed by Vergo.
> He is Luffy's marine rival.
> ...



Now what are you going on about.

I'm talking about what happened in the manga, not outside battle-dome scenarios. 

In the Manga Vergo Mid diff Smoker. 

If they fought again with Smoker fighting more properly i am of the opinion that Vergo would High diff him.


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## Coruscation (Feb 16, 2015)

> Surely we can agree That Hawk Rifle>Hardened Rocket Punch from smoker, and that Hawk Rifle>>>Hardened Elbow to the face.
> 
> Those are the two things we see Smoker hit Vergo with, and Chinjao laughed off Hawk Rifle.



DCJ got hit in the stomach. Vergo got hit in the face. DCJ used COA Hardening to defend. Vergo used nothing to defend. Those were not the only hits Vergo took. Do the math. Your comparison is miles off base and faulty.



> It shows that Chinjao presumably had the edge as he was the one showed landing the blows and penetrating his opponents defenses.
> 
> ...
> 
> Smoker was shown to be winning at the start So what?



No, Luffy had a few bruises and Oda depicted him as outdoing Chinjao relatively swiftly. Vergo was visibly bleeding and was never depicted with an edge until Smoker suicided. Quite the contrary to having an edge he was getting his face caved in, literally.

Not just at the start, at *every part of the fight except when he suicided*. Oda had 3 opportunities to show the fight. #1 he shows Smoker winning. #2 he shows Smoker winning. #3 he shows Smoker losing but going out of his way to point out that Smoker was not fighting intelligently which was because he was focusing on getting Law's heart back as opposed to actually beating up Vergo. Again do the math, interpret the portrayal, Oda showed what he showed for a reason.



> It was a nothing diff fight cause the fight was not over yet.



A fight does not have to end for its difficulty to be decided. If you have a brutal really close battle with a guy and then suddenly someone else shows up and shoots the guy in the head, causing the battle to end, that does not mean it was a "nothing diff fight" during the time it progressed.



> Not misleading.



Yes. Because:



> you should take circumstances in to account



Which your original statement did not, it completely ignored circumstances. Hence it was misleading because what actually happened did a very bad job of representing the actual differences in strength between the fighters.



> He in fact was fighting the way he usually does, using one of the few things his devil fruit even gives him which is mobility and speed to outmaneuver his opponent to hit them



That's not what he was doing that was problematic. You might need to re-read. What Vergo commented on is that Smoker spread his Logia form too wide. Vergo flat out stated it's not like his usual fighting style. That's because he was doing what he was doing to grab Law's heart while disregarding his own safety hence eventually losing to Vergo. Before he started doing this he was winning as gleaned from Oda's depictions of the fight.



> If Smoker was fighting the way he should of been as vergo stated, i can easily argue he would of not of even gotten the two hits on Vergo that he did in their fight.



No you couldn't, you'd be acting like a stubborn dumbass if you pretended to be so blind you can't see that Oda's intention with the line was to say that Smoker would have done better, not worse, if he hadn't fought in that unintelligent way.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 16, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> DCJ got hit in the stomach. Vergo got hit in the face


.

Vergo got hit in the face all day in punk hazord. Showed Zero signs of slowing down. 



> DCJ used COA Hardening to defend. Vergo used nothing to defend. Those were not the only hits Vergo took. Do the math. Your comparison is miles off base and faulty.



And Hawk Rifle shits on the attacks Smoker used. 

What other hits did Vergo take from Smoker i don't recall? 



> No, Luffy had a few bruises and Oda depicted him as outdoing Chinjao relatively swiftly


. 

Luffy started outdoing swiftly when he took out the big gun just like Vergo. 



> Vergo was visibly bleeding and was never depicted with an edge until Smoker suicided. Quite the contrary to having an edge he was getting his face caved in, literally.



Like i said in the other post Oda was showing that Smoker was winning so what? 




> Not just at the start, at *every part of the fight except when he suicided*
> Oda had 3 opportunities to show the fight. #1 he shows Smoker winning. #2 he shows Smoker winning. #3



You do know most of that fight was off panel right? Even more so then Chinjao vs Luffy. 

1. We got like a 3 page exchange between them. 

2. Then One tiny panel of smoker hitting Vergo again. 

3. Then the 2 pages of the fight ending. 



> he shows Smoker losing but going out of his way to point out that Smoker was not fighting intelligently which was because he was focusing on getting Law's heart back as opposed to actually beating up Vergo. Again do the math, interpret the portrayal, Oda showed what he showed for a reason.



He showed that Smoker is a competent fighter and that he lost as quickly as he did because he was trying to get Laws Heart back. 

Thats what Oda showed us. 





> A fight does not have to end for its difficulty to be decided


.

For it to have any note worthy meaning it does. 

Otherwise i can just say lol Luffy just got stomped by Bellamy. Well no the fight is not over yet, and as we both know luffy is going to easily deal with bellamy once he tries to. 



> If you have a brutal really close battle with a guy and then suddenly someone else shows up and shoots the guy in the head, causing the battle to end, that does not mean it was a "nothing diff fight" during the time it progressed.



The fight is over then you take in to account everything that happened.

In that scenario the fight was a Extreme diff fight with no winner. 

Even if we put it into a vacuum and stop the fight right before we go back to them for the last time and for whatever reason vergo decides to run away. It would of been a low-mid diff fight for Smoker. As the effort and damage he took during that was not very high at all. 




> Yes. Because:
> 
> 
> Which your original statement did not, it completely ignored circumstances. Hence it was misleading because what actually happened did a very bad job of representing the actual differences in strength between the fighters.



This thread is Zoro vs Vergo.

Not Vergo vs Smoker.

I did not go into a Vergo vs Smoker thread, and say Vergo beats Smoker with Mid diff because he did it in the manga. 

I gave evidence to the position of Base Vergo>Smoker. Which Vergo vs Smoker in the manga one way or the other can be used as evidence in that argument. 




> That's not what he was doing that was problematic. You might need to re-read. What Vergo commented on is that Smoker spread his Logia form too wide. Vergo flat out stated it's not like his usual fighting style. That's because he was doing what he was doing to grab Law's heart while disregarding his own safety hence eventually losing to Vergo. Before he started doing this he was winning as gleaned from Oda's depictions of the fight.



I view it as Smoker not fighting in the proper manner he should be against A better haki user as Vergo. Smoker sent his body parts in multiple ways against Law, doing that against Vergo is a bad idea. 





> No you couldn't, you'd be acting like a stubborn dumbass if you pretended to be so blind you can't see that Oda's intention with the line was to say that Smoker would have done better, not worse, if he hadn't fought in that unintelligent way.



Who said anything about worse. 

Its a trade off. 

Smoker restricting his mobility and speed makes it harder for him to hit vergo, but it also makes it harder for Vergo to hit him, and it also makes the fight longer. Not to mention Smoker bringing out some of his own big moves that were not necessarily good for him to use as said moves would of not helped him grab Laws heart.


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## Jeep Brah (Feb 16, 2015)

King plasma said:


> This is actually a good match up in favour of Zoro. Good luck trying to tank Zoro's slashes, Vergo. Unless Vergo has some armour plating on top of his haki he can't afford to get a direct hit from Zoro.



Really, one higher end mid level move could potentially end Vergo if placed right.




And we don't even know any of Zoro's high end moves


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 16, 2015)

Jeep Brah said:


> *Really, one higher end mid level move could potentially end Vergo if placed right.
> *
> 
> 
> ...





Not sure about you but i think 1080 Pound canon would count as one of Zoros Higher end Mid level moves. 

Pica is fighting Zoro just fine, and still thinks he can win(He is wrong of course), but it shows that 1080 pound canon is not enough to make Pica worry about his chances of victory. 

Going to need a High end move to take out Vergo in one hit.


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## Captain Altintop (Feb 16, 2015)

This thread alone is a disgrace to Vergo. 

It should be more 50:50 style than 100:0 in Zoro's case. Mint hair's gonna wanked pretty much.


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## Suit (Feb 16, 2015)

Amol, just put DD on super ignore. There's no point in arguing with stupidity.



Kaiser said:


> The seats aren't that weak. When you see how Franky was pushed to extreme difficulty by a regular executive, not even portrayed to be the strongest one, when you see Robin calling the seats "monsters", you know these guys should be beasts. These guys are all monster trio level fighters. Vergo is stronger than them, but not with as large a margin as people here really think.
> 
> Kyros beating Diamante(we're not even sure is actually defeated yet) just prove how strong he is and that he was not hyped for nothing. The truth is that many people underestimated Kyros because of lack of feats, and thinking his hype of being capable to take down Doflamingo was just a joke. As a result, him defeating Diamante somehow gives a negative effect on the seats when in reality Kyros' hype could have actually not being that far-fetched. Diamante even underestimated his power, thinking that with his handicaps he can't do anything to him and he paid the price. The fact Diamante is also portrayed as a joker doesn't help OL to actually take him seriously. The only complain i have with him is that Oda only really showed 1interesting attack coming from him(the half moon thing). It's sad and disappointing
> 
> As for the answer of this question, i'll wait the end of the fight versus Pica, but from a portrayal point of view, i think Zoro should edge this



Zoro "edging" Pica? Now there's a nice bit of fanfiction. If Pica didn't have a power that allowed him to run from Zoro, that stone bastard wouldn't have even killed the Pirate Hunter's boredom. Seats are absolute trash except for Vergo.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 16, 2015)

Captain Altintop said:


> This thread alone is a disgrace to Vergo.
> 
> It should be more 50:50 style than 100:0 in Zoro's case. Mint hair's gonna wanked pretty much.



Nah its really not a toss-up at this point. 

Unless you just push aside Oda's dick riding of Zoro. Which i would not blame you for doing.


----------



## Jeep Brah (Feb 16, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Not sure about you but i think 1080 Pound canon would count as one of Zoros Higher end Mid level moves.
> 
> Pica is fighting Zoro just fine, and still thinks he can win(He is wrong of course), but it shows that 1080 pound canon is not enough to make Pica worry about his chances of victory.
> 
> Going to need a High end move to take out Vergo in one hit.


Nah, that's just basic mid level more towards the lower side.



ShiShi SonSon is a detention of a high end mid level move


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 16, 2015)

Jeep Brah said:


> *Nah, that's just basic mid level more towards the lower side*.
> 
> 
> 
> ShiShi SonSon is a detention of a high end mid level move





No way in hell.


----------



## Jeep Brah (Feb 16, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> No way in hell.



It's his go 2 move like a a serious hardened G2 Jet Pistol.



He uses absolutely 0 stress to execute the move



His  Ashura Mode: 4K Ultra HD 240hz pound canon should be considered very high end however.


----------



## Coruscation (Feb 16, 2015)

DD said:
			
		

> Vergo got hit in the face all day in punk hazord. Showed Zero signs of slowing down.



He took uhm, let's see, *one hit* that Smoker didn't deal him. Uh-huh.



> And Hawk Rifle shits on the attacks Smoker used.
> 
> What other hits did Vergo take from Smoker i don't recall?



Not when the COA Hardening DCJ used evens the playing field. Then Vergo getting smacked in the face puts Smoker's damage dealing above.

They fought off-panel for a while. Some type of punch/jutte smash/kick take your pick.



> Luffy started outdoing swiftly when he took out the big gun just like Vergo.



Vergo didn't take out shit. He used a single move which Smoker would not have gotten hit by if he didn't intentionally take it. Luffy overcame Chin's reactions/ability to block or dodge in time and his Haki defense at the same time with Hawk Rifle.



> You do know most of that fight was off panel right? Even more so then Chinjao vs Luffy.
> 
> 1. We got like a 3 page exchange between them.
> 
> ...



So what that I said wasn't true?



> He showed that Smoker is a competent fighter and that he lost as quickly as he did because he was trying to get Laws Heart back.
> 
> Thats what Oda showed us.



Competent enough to be winning against Vergo. Don't leave that out.



> For it to have any note worthy meaning it does.
> 
> Otherwise i can just say lol Luffy just got stomped by Bellamy. Well no the fight is not over yet, and as we both know luffy is going to easily deal with bellamy once he tries to.



No it doesn't and no you can't say that. Smoker and Vergo fought for an extended period of time, exchanged many moves and dealt damage to one another. Oda depicted Smoker with the edge before he suicided. Why are you acting daft instead of debating with intellectual honesty?



> Even if we put it into a vacuum and stop the fight right before we go back to them for the last time and for whatever reason vergo decides to run away. It would of been a low-mid diff fight for Smoker. As the effort and damage he took during that was not very high at all.



Bullshit. He would still have been putting in huge amounts of effort, max effort in fact, to do what he did to Vergo. Massive effort being put in + the enemy still resisting you and dealing damage back = high-extreme difficulty.



> This thread is Zoro vs Vergo.
> 
> Not Vergo vs Smoker.
> 
> ...



Doesn't matter. Context is always crucial and you know it. Thus you stated something you knew was misleading but did it anyway to make your argument sound better. That's intellectual dishonesty and it's poor debating form.



> I view it as Smoker not fighting in the proper manner he should be against A better haki user as Vergo. Smoker sent his body parts in multiple ways against Law, doing that against Vergo is a bad idea.



Re-read the fight DD. It was outright stated what he did and that it *wasn't like his normal fighting style*. In other words he was fighting stupidly which is uncharacteristic and he would have been doing better if he wasn't.



> Who said anything about worse.
> 
> Its a trade off.
> 
> Smoker restricting his mobility and speed makes it harder for him to hit vergo, but it also makes it harder for Vergo to hit him, and it also makes the fight longer. Not to mention Smoker bringing out some of his own big moves that were not necessarily good for him to use as said moves would of not helped him grab Laws heart.



Smoker never restricted his mobility and speed. At the start of the fight he used them fully and was able to be on the winning side due to it. Later on he started fighting differently which caused him to lose. Vergo was talking about him spreading *out* himself too much, not moving around too much in Logia form. You realize he did that because he wanted to surround Vergo to take the heart without Vergo noticing right? It had nothing to do with landing hits, it didn't help him in that regard.


----------



## Kaiser (Feb 16, 2015)

StrawHat said:


> Zoro "edging" Pica? Now there's a nice bit of fanfiction. If Pica didn't have a power that allowed him to run from Zoro, that stone bastard wouldn't have even killed the Pirate Hunter's boredom. Seats are absolute trash except for Vergo.


I meant "edging" Vergo. And no, i don't consider people capable to low diff Franky actually "trash"


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 16, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> He took uhm, let's see, *one hit* that Smoker didn't deal him. Uh-huh.



Took a Counter Shock to the face as well.  

Anyway the point is as you know Vergo through Punk Hazord showed no signs of fatigue or even that any attack substantially hurt him. Most we got was vergo putting his hand to his head when sanji/smoker hit him. If Smoker dealt damage worth mentioning. Which a High diff which would most certainty give. You would think such a thing would be obvious, considering Vergo got injuries prior to fighting smoker. 

conclusion? Smoker did moderate damage to Vergo.  



> Not when the COA Hardening DCJ used evens the playing field. Then Vergo getting smacked in the face puts Smoker's damage dealing above.



So it balances out. 

Luffy uses higher end move, Don uses higher level defense=Don not giving a fuck.

Smoker uses Mid level move, Vergo uses no defense=Vergo not giving a fuck. 

Vergo not using his main strength to defend himself from Smokers attacks just goes to show Vergos mind set and that Smoker was out of his league. 




> They fought off-panel for a while. Some type of punch/jutte smash/kick take your pick.



All of which could of been blocked and or dodged by Vergo/Smoker. 

Not sure how assuming that Vergo took even more hits that were shown helps you out in anyway. So Vergo took even more of a beating Off-panel and still showed no signs of fatigue/weakness/heavy injury. That means Smokers attacks were piss weak, or Vergo is just that much above smoker. 





> Vergo didn't take out shit. He used a single move which Smoker would not have gotten *hit by if he didn't intentionally take it*.



lol no. 

Smoker did a frontal attack against Vergo no logia tricks to confuse him or give him easy opening, he put up his Jutte in defense of Vergos attack, and Vergo smashed right through it and put him on his ass.






> So what that I said wasn't true?



No just exaggerated. 




> Competent enough to be winning against Vergo. Don't leave that out.



Yes as i said twice already.



> Smoker was shown to be winning at the start  So what?





> Like i said in the other post Oda was showing that Smoker was winning so what?





> No it doesn't and no you can't say that. Smoker and Vergo fought for an extended period of time, exchanged many moves and dealt damage to one another. Oda depicted Smoker with the edge before he suicided. Why are you acting daft instead of debating with intellectual honesty?



Whats the problem here i never dis-agreed with any of this. 

1. Yes they fought for a extended amount of time and exchanged blows. 

2. Yes Smoker was shown winning as i said before.



> Bullshit. He would still have been putting in huge amounts of effort, max effort in fact, to do what he did to Vergo. Massive effort being put in + the enemy still resisting you and dealing damage back = high-extreme difficulty.



I disagree. 

I don't think Smoker was putting in a lot of effort he was not even fighting efficiently for starters,  and we know for a fact that Vergo was not. 

Smoker every time we saw he had the clear advantage over Vergo with no noteworthy push back from Vergo. If Smoker was the one to smash Vergo with a big move and end it no way in hell is that a high/extreme diff fight. 




> Doesn't matter. Context is always crucial and you know it. Thus you stated something you knew was misleading but did it anyway to make your argument sound better. That's intellectual dishonesty and it's poor debating form.



Nope its perfectly fine the way i used it.

I do not need to state the obvious circumstances of that fight cause they are irrelevant to my statement, just like the circumstances of Sanji getting his leg cracked is irreverent in the context i used it. This is not a Smoker/Sanji Vs Vergo thread nor was i discussing who would win in a rematch between the two. 

Opinions aside on the difficulty, Base Vergo did in fact defeat Smoker. That is without a doubt Potential evidence as to why someone might think Base Vergo can defeat Smoker. If someone made a BD thread about Smoker vs Vergo, obviously you take into account the circumstances of their fight and other evidence just like you do every dame fight in the BD. 

If someone has a problem comprehending that then tough peanuts i don't give a darn. 




> Re-read the fight DD. It was outright stated what he did and that it *wasn't like his normal fighting style*. In other words he was fighting stupidly which is uncharacteristic and he would have been doing better if he wasn't.





> 8
> [Box: Building D: SAD Production Room]
> [Labels: Caesar // Luffy // Law // Smoker // VS // Vergo]
> Smoker: *pant*... *pant*...
> ...



Free to disagree but i interpret Vergos words as i already stated. That Smoker was not fighting as he should against a superior Haki user such as Vergo. 




> Smoker never restricted his mobility and speed


. 

I never said he did which is the point. 

From the start Smoker was using his devil fruit powers constantly which Vergo comments on. 



> At the start of the fight he used them fully and was able to be on the winning side due to it. Later on he started fighting differently which caused him to lose. Vergo was talking about him spreading *out* himself too much, not moving around too much in Logia form. You realize he did that because he wanted to surround Vergo to take the heart without Vergo noticing right? It had nothing to do with landing hits, it didn't help him in that regard.



I don't think Smoker changed his fighting style mid-fight.


----------



## Canute87 (Feb 16, 2015)

Don't know why people think that Zoro's swords aren't more durable than Sanji's legs and Smoker's stick.

Unless people think that Vergo can actually break zoro's swords at the sharp end.

Also we know about Zoro's unwavering will power that he hasn't shown in a fight since alabasta.

He also has yet to use ashura....quite interesting I might add.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 16, 2015)

No one thinks that buts its portryal.

If luffy clashes fists with Doflamingo and Luffys finger bones breaks thats a bad sign for luffy. Does that mean DD can break zoros swords no, but he can cave his face in.


----------



## Canute87 (Feb 16, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> No one thinks that buts its portryal.
> 
> If luffy clashes fists with Doflamingo and Luffys finger bones breaks thats a bad sign for luffy. Does that mean DD can break zoros swords no, but he can cave his face in.



hmm good point.

Would fall to your side if not for the fact that vergo's portrayal as an extremely skilled individual  leaves much to be desired.


----------



## Dr. White (Feb 16, 2015)

What's the major argument here? 
Base Vergo vs Smoker is gonna be a high - extreme diff fight either way. Smoker had the advantage over Base Vergo mostly due to speed and mobility, but Vergo has much more durability (eating 2 DJ's, a countershock, and two Smoker haki hits; to Smoker getting hit majorly once.) and a good fighting set to fight against Smoker (geppou and Soru). That fight honestly could of went either way (with Vergo in base).

FBH Vergo decisively beats Smoker somewhere around mid - high diff. 

Zoro can't beat smoker with anything less than High diff. 

Take that as you will.


----------



## Lawliet (Feb 16, 2015)

Zoro high difficulty and i am being really generous here to Vergo.


----------



## Dr. White (Feb 16, 2015)

oOLawlietOo said:


> Zoro high difficulty and i am being really generous here to Vergo.



    .


----------



## Dr. White (Feb 16, 2015)

GG. Pirate Hunter


----------



## Canute87 (Feb 16, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> What's the major argument here?
> Base Vergo vs Smoker is gonna be a high - extreme diff fight either way. Smoker had the advantage over Base Vergo mostly due to speed and mobility, but Vergo has much more durability (eating 2 DJ's, a countershock, and two Smoker haki hits; to Smoker getting hit majorly once.) and a good fighting set to fight against Smoker (geppou and Soru). That fight honestly could of went either way (with Vergo in base).
> 
> FBH Vergo decisively beats Smoker somewhere around mid - high diff.
> ...



Smoker is a different kind of fight.  It's not always A > B > C therefore A>C Logic. 

Zoro is going to have a much harder time getting hits on smoker than he will vergo and smoker is way more flexible.  

If smoker tries a head on clash he's going to lose against zoro but why would he do that?


----------



## Jeep Brah (Feb 16, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> .



What concludes Zoro would need high difficulty to even beat Vergo?


Vergo is physically weaker, less durable, slower, much less lethal, and hasnt got enough versatility to penetrate Zoro's defenses.



This is how the fight would go,


Zoro feels him out with some air slashes and a pound cannon Vergo gets pushed back and tries to go on the offensive.


Inside Zoro's circle he's cut into pieces before he can even touch his body, just cold steel..


----------



## Dr. White (Feb 16, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> Smoker is a different kind of fight.  It's not always A > B > C therefore A>C Logic.
> 
> Zoro is going to have a much harder time getting hits on smoker than he will vergo and smoker is way more flexible.
> 
> If smoker tries a head on clash he's going to lose against zoro but why would he do that?



They are all on the same tier, and none of them have barring Smoker's logia, have really flashy or hax powers. For the most part they fight up front and direct, with smoker throwing in some tricks, and being a bit more diverse. 

It's a balance. While Zoro is gonna be hardpressed to tag Smoker, he also needs to get less hits. Vs Vergo he needs to put Vergo down, before the latter can counter attack. The same thing goes for Zoro, who is also easier to hit than Smoker. Sanji got two direct DJ's on Vergo before Vergo turned up on him and things went south real quick. Vergo's COA is undoubtedly better than Zoro's, and Zoro's gonna have to wittle at Zoro. Doflamingo even thought Law's durability bypassing slashes would be negated, and Caeser thought Luffy didn't even have enough firepower to put him down. With his Bo Staff game, and Rokushiki Vergo is set to fight Zoro.

@Jeep Bruh
I only entertain top Tier Zoro wankers like Extra, and HisMajesty. Lol at me responding.


----------



## Canute87 (Feb 16, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> They are all on the same tier, and none of them have barring Smoker's logia, have really flashy or hax powers. For the most part they fight up front and direct, with smoker throwing in some tricks, and being a bit more diverse.
> 
> It's a balance. While Zoro is gonna be hardpressed to tag Smoker, he also needs to get less hits. Vs Vergo he needs to put Vergo down, before the latter can counter attack. The same thing goes for Zoro, who is also easier to hit than Smoker. Sanji got two direct DJ's on Vergo before Vergo turned up on him and things went south real quick. Vergo's COA is undoubtedly better than Zoro's, and Zoro's gonna have to wittle at Zoro. Doflamingo even thought Law's durability bypassing slashes would be negated, and Caeser thought Luffy didn't even have enough firepower to put him down. With his Bo Staff game, and Rokushiki Vergo is set to fight Zoro.
> 
> ...



The same amount of hits that's going to take down vergo is going to take down smoker because of the advantage of using swords.  It comes more down to in vergo's case breaking his armour  or  Smoker's  getting a clean shit.

It can't just be about tiers, especially when the styles are so significantly different.  Zoro cannot approach Smoker the same way he would vergo.  Two different paths can have the same general conclusion.

Sanji's went sour the same way Vergo did against law because they tried to block something they could have avoided.  That was just Sanji's bad luck as vergo had a significant advantage over him, something that is not really going to accour with Zoro's blades especially the shuisui.


----------



## Dr. White (Feb 16, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> The same amount of hits that's going to take down vergo is going to take down smoker because of the advantage of using swords.  It comes more down to in vergo's case breaking his armour  or  Smoker's  getting a clean shit.


Not at all. Vergo canonically has better Haki than Smoker, and therefore would deal with every slash better when using Haki defense, let alone FBH mode which increases his durability and muscle mass. 

Where as Vergo can probably tank upwards of Shi Shi Son Son, Smoker, defintely can't. It's going to take Zoro's Sunday Best to take down Vergo, where as Smoker could probably be taken down by multiple direct 360 Pound Cannons, or an attack like Rashomon.



> It can't just be about tiers, especially when the styles are so significantly different.  Zoro cannot approach Smoker the same way he would vergo.  Two different paths can have the same general conclusion.


I never said it was dictated by tiers. I gace my full summation earlier I was just commenting generally on the whole Smoker vs Vergo vs Zoro dynamic.

Tiers does matter to a point though. As I mentioned every fighter uses some sort of physical fighting. Vergo Martial Arts and Bo Staff, Smoker uses Logia Brawling with Jutte, and Zoro Swordsmanship. Therefore their Durability, Endurance, Strength, Speed, and Reactions are all going to play a huge role in this fight. Of course match up is important though.



> Sanji's went sour the same way Vergo did against law because they tried to block something they could have avoided.


Sanji got his leg cracked because he was not expecting Vergo's strength and haki game. 

Vergo lost because he thought he could beat Law to the punch with his staff, and worst case scenario Law's sword bounced off, and Law still got wrecked. He was wrong on both fronts.



> That was just Sanji's bad luck as vergo had a significant advantage over him, something that is not really going to accour with Zoro's blades especially the shuisui.


Why are you giving Zoro's blades the inherent advantage over Vergo's Haki? Vergo is not Luffy, his Haki is going to protect him from slashing attacks, and he's strong enough to meet Zoro's sword with his Bo Staff. 

Like Bro, Vergo's one Named Staff Move broke through a Haki Jutte (and Smoker should have some decent COA game), soloed Smoker, and then caused air to move so fast it dented steel several feet away. You know how hard it is to do that with a blunt force attack?


----------



## Canute87 (Feb 16, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> Not at all. Vergo canonically has better Haki than Smoker, and therefore would deal with every slash better when using Haki defense, let alone FBH mode which increases his durability and muscle mass.
> 
> Where as Vergo can probably tank upwards of Shi Shi Son Son, Smoker, defintely can't. It's going to take Zoro's Sunday Best to take down Vergo, where as Smoker could probably be taken down by multiple direct 360 Pound Cannons, or an attack like Rashomon.



I agree with that  but canonically we know how versatile smoker is and wouldn't get hit with lion song so easily because he'd just avoid it,  given the flexibility of his DF it is massively simple for him.  It's going to take Zoro's best attack eventually but  there's somewhat of total equivalence that can be used.

Zoro spends more effort getting a lethal hit on smoker can essentially be equivalent to Zoro spending more effort using powerful attacks to break though vergo's defenses.



> I never said it was dictated by tiers. I gace my full summation earlier I was just commenting generally on the whole Smoker vs Vergo vs Zoro dynamic.
> 
> Tiers does matter to a point though. As I mentioned every fighter uses some sort of physical fighting. Vergo Martial Arts and Bo Staff, Smoker uses Logia Brawling with Jutte, and Zoro Swordsmanship. Therefore their Durability, Endurance, Strength, Speed, and Reactions are all going to play a huge role in this fight. Of course match up is important though.



You're right that it does matter to a point  but then the direct comparison with smoker we know has some holes because smoker decided to keep the same tactics in order to get to law. Did he have other tactics?  Vergo seem to imply that but  I might be wrong.

Even if they all use the same basic parts of the statistics chart the thing is these characters have certain components that essentially increase a particular stat or even their own fighting potential exponentially.  This is shown with the crazy versatility of smoker's DF,  Vergo's crazy strong haki and Zoro's high quality blades.




> Sanji got his leg cracked because he was not expecting Vergo's strength and haki game.



The strength wasn't really the problem because we saw Sanji clashing with vergo easily before he kicked him in the wall.

If i was to make a comparison it would be somewhat similar to the first and only gear 3 punch Luffy ever got on lucci which affected him the way it did, Lucci took it on because he thought he couldcould   but unless Sanji can sense haki levels to compare it to his own then  I just can't really hold it against him.  He essentially went bull to bull against him in that exchange the same say lucci did and guess what we saw that not one G3 punch touched lucci after that.




> Why are you giving Zoro's blades the inherent advantage over Vergo's Haki? Vergo is not Luffy, his Haki is going to protect him from slashing attacks, and he's strong enough to meet Zoro's sword with his Bo Staff.



Because I put Zoro's swords especially the sharp end in much harder durability than Sanji's legs and smoker's jutte.  It takes some serious and i mean serious hardness to break the sharp part of steel with blunt force especially something of that quality and I do not see vergo with that level of haki.



> Like Bro, Vergo's one Named Staff Move broke through a Haki Jutte (and Smoker should have some decent COA game), soloed Smoker, and then caused air to move so fast it dented steel several feet away. You know how hard it is to do that with a blunt force attack?



Smoker was getting hit through the entire fight though  it's not as if that hit took from from 100 to 0.

Is the air denting steel because of the bamboo right? Just to make sure.


----------



## Jeep Brah (Feb 16, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> They are all on the same tier, and none of them have barring Smoker's logia, have really flashy or hax powers. For the most part they fight up front and direct, with smoker throwing in some tricks, and being a bit more diverse.
> 
> It's a balance. While Zoro is gonna be hardpressed to tag Smoker, he also needs to get less hits. Vs Vergo he needs to put Vergo down, before the latter can counter attack. The same thing goes for Zoro, who is also easier to hit than Smoker. Sanji got two direct DJ's on Vergo before Vergo turned up on him and things went south real quick. Vergo's COA is undoubtedly better than Zoro's, and Zoro's gonna have to wittle at Zoro. Doflamingo even thought Law's durability bypassing slashes would be negated, and Caeser thought Luffy didn't even have enough firepower to put him down. With his Bo Staff game, and Rokushiki Vergo is set to fight Zoro.
> 
> ...



You seem hurt.


----------



## Etherborn (Feb 16, 2015)

High difficulty if he wins.


----------



## Dr. White (Feb 16, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> I agree with that  but canonically we know how versatile smoker is and wouldn't get hit with lion song so easily because he'd just avoid it,  given the flexibility of his DF it is massively simple for him.  It's going to take Zoro's best attack eventually but  there's somewhat of total equivalence that can be used.


Haki + shi shi son son on his disperesed Body would be tough, and Zoro can just range him until he gets close enough.



> Zoro spends more effort getting a lethal hit on smoker can essentially be equivalent to Zoro spending more effort using powerful attacks to break though vergo's defenses.


Comparitive to Base Vergo, not FBH Vergo.




> The strength wasn't really the problem because we saw Sanji clashing with vergo easily before he kicked him in the wall.


Not all kicks are equal though. We know Vergo was using basic COA vs Sanji so it was a combo of that and his strength which was again highlighted by the strength of his Bo strikes.



> If i was to make a comparison it would be somewhat similar to the first and only gear 3 punch Luffy ever got on lucci which affected him the way it did, Lucci took it on because he thought he couldcould   but unless Sanji can sense haki levels to compare it to his own then  I just can't really hold it against him.  He essentially went bull to bull against him in that exchange the same say lucci did and guess what we saw that not one G3 punch touched lucci after that.


Except Vergo's kick wasn't even named or Armament Hardened. That was literally Luffy's best move, Vergo wasn't even near his full offensive output capabilities.






> Because I put Zoro's swords especially the sharp end in much harder durability than Sanji's legs and smoker's jutte.  It takes some serious and i mean serious hardness to break the sharp part of steel with blunt force especially something of that quality and I do not see vergo with that level of haki.


I'm talking about Zoro's offense vs Vergo's defense.

Vergo can still hurt Zoro through his Guard even if he can't break his swords.




> Smoker was getting hit through the entire fight though  it's not as if that hit took from from 100 to 0.
> 
> Is the air denting steel because of the bamboo right? Just to make sure.


Smoker maybe got punched? Not one hit landed on Smoker throughout the arc, unless you can't Mes, or hits he took with Logia Intang. Up until that point the only on panel hits in that fight were 2 from smoker to Vergo. So he essentially got one shotted.

And yeah it was from him swinging his bamboo stick so hard, which is more impressive since it broke through Smoker's Haki Jutte (he should be able to clash with most High tiers), Smoker's durability (which is > Town level given Baby 5 and Buffalo could move after taking Franky General Coup De Vent), and *then* made the dent


----------



## MYJC (Feb 16, 2015)

This Vergo wank is getting out of control. He's a decent fighter but he's not THAT tough. 

Zoro mid-diffs. I doubt he has much more difficulty than Luffy did with Don Chinjao.


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Feb 16, 2015)

MYJC said:


> This Vergo wank is getting out of control. *He's a decent fighter but he's not THAT tough.
> 
> Zoro mid-diffs. I doubt he has much more difficulty than Luffy did with Don Chinjao.*



*Spoiler*: __


----------



## MYJC (Feb 17, 2015)

Issho said:


> *Spoiler*: __




That looks like it hurt. 

It's a good thing that Zoro is significantly stronger than Sanji and Smoker was just trying to divert Vergo's attention rather than beat him.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 17, 2015)

Come on now Issho. 

Sanji is fodder. Zoro took him out easy in thriller bark.

And Smoker? He got low diff by law, and we all knos Zoro would beat law with high diff if not mid.

vergo would be lucky not to get one shot.


----------



## Wayne With The Ism (Feb 17, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> What's the major argument here?
> Base Vergo vs Smoker is gonna be a high - extreme diff fight either way. Smoker had the advantage over Base Vergo mostly due to speed and mobility, but Vergo has much more durability (eating 2 DJ's, a countershock, and two Smoker haki hits; to Smoker getting hit majorly once.) and a good fighting set to fight against Smoker (geppou and Soru). That fight honestly could of went either way (with Vergo in base).
> 
> FBH Vergo decisively beats Smoker somewhere around mid - high diff.
> ...



To add onto this. Smoker can't beat Vergo in any form or shape. If Smoker could have beaten Vergo in base he would of just done so. I seriously doubt Smoker would lose on purpose just to retrieve Law's heart if he knew he could have beaten Vergo. Smoker was even more surprised when Vergo went FBH because he knew he couldn't even beat base Vergo. Vergo would mid diff Smoker if he went FBH from the start, maybe even lower diff. At the end, it's Vergo's cockiness that led to his downfall. Pointlessly taking attacks then running into Law's mountain cutter.


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## Wayne With The Ism (Feb 17, 2015)

Can someone tell why me why post skip Zoro is considered so strong again? When did people get the idea that Zoro can beat Law? Lmao. Wow he stalled Fuji. Replace what he did with any other person M3 level and the same would have happened. Any M3 level fighter could have survived Fuji's attack and provided an attack where Fuji would have to block. I'll judge Zoro's ability when he has a worthwhile opponent. Sanji looks bad because he lost to two people who are portrayed stronger than anyone Zoro has fought. This is supposed to hype up Zoro how? If Sanji lost to base Vergo. I don't see Zoro beating FBH Vergo at all. Why is Zoro considered so much stronger than Sanji? Sanji post skip has to fight the harder opponents while Zoro is in the corner busy scratching his ass.


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## Bohemian Knight (Feb 17, 2015)

Zoro needs extreme diff


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## Amol (Feb 17, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Both Fighters Zoro/Smoker were not fighting at 100 percent.
> 
> Yes Smoker was using his devil fruit the way he usually does in order to get laws heart, and in the process you might of noticed he was also smashing Vergos face in. All of which is irrelevant cause it does not change the amount of Damage or effort Vergo put into beating Smoker. Which was mid.
> 
> ...


You stopped making any sense long time ago .
1) You claimed base Vergo mid diffs Smoker in a battledome thread.
2) You used it as argument to show Vergo's strength.
3) I told you how you are wrong and Smoker only lost because he wasn't aiming to win and how the result was circumstantial.
4) Anyone with shred of common sense will tell that you can't use result of circumstantial fight as argument in another fight in battledome.
5) You says it is irrelevant.
You either lacks reading comprehension to fully understand Smoker's intention or you are purposefully acting daft .
Either way Vergo under no circumstances mid diffing Smoker because it is fanfiction especially with base Vergo.
Vergo is extremely overrated.


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## Freechoice (Feb 17, 2015)

Glad to see there isn't as much extreme diff bullshit as I anticipated.

My boner is fading down to a slight chub.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 17, 2015)

Amol said:


> You stopped making any sense long time ago .
> 1) You claimed base Vergo mid diffs Smoker in a battledome thread.



Someone needs to refresh their memory. 

Part 1. 

Dr. White says.


> What has Zoro done to warrant him beating Vergo with High diff? Base Vergo could arguably beat Sanji/Smoker...



Part 2.

Luke asks 





> based on what?



Part 3. 

I responded with Two things that happend in the manga as evidence to support Dr. Whites claim. 

What Vergo did to Sanji and Vergo beating(IMO) Smoker with Mid diff. 



> Based on Base Vergo beating Smoker with mid diff.
> 
> Based on Base Vergo without Bamboo casually cracking Sanjis leg bone.





> 2) You used it as argument to show Vergo's strength.



Is vergo beating Smoker not a strength feat? 



> 3) I told you how you are wrong and Smoker only lost because he wasn't aiming to win and how the result was circumstantial.



Which i never disagreed with.

Its just irrelevant to my point, which was providing evidence to back up the claim that Base Vergo can defeat Smoker. Which one way or another that fight in the manga supports that notion for better or worse. 



> 4) Anyone with shred of common sense will tell that you can't use result of circumstantial fight as argument in another fight in battledome.



um no. 

Feats are feats. 

Only thing you can't say is X>Y because X already beat Y in the manga under circumstantial events. Which even then only depends on what said circumstances are. 


> 5) You says it is irrelevant.
> You either lacks reading comprehension to fully understand Smoker's intention or you are purposefully acting daft .



You seemed to have missed my entire point of posting what i did in the first place. 

I am not arguing that Base Vergo can Mid diff Smoker.
I do not think Vergo Period can Mid diff Smoker. 
I do believe as the manga out right says that Smoker was throwing the fight in order to get back Laws heart. 

All i said was that Base Vergo defeated Smoker with Mid diff in the manga(Mid diff obviously being my opinion not Oda given LAW) as support for the notion that Base Vergo can defeat Smoker, obviously with more then Mid diff because in a fair fight Smoker would be fighting to win from the start. 


> Either way Vergo under no circumstances mid diffing Smoker because it is fanfiction especially with base Vergo.
> Vergo is extremely overrated.



Good thing nobody thinks Vergo can mid diff Smoker in a fair fight.


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## Canute87 (Feb 17, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> Haki + shi shi son son on his disperesed Body would be tough, and Zoro can just range him until he gets close enough.



I think smoker could avoid them at range.  



> Comparitive to Base Vergo, not FBH Vergo.



Don't really understand this,  can you kinds explain just a little.




> Not all kicks are equal though. We know Vergo was using basic COA vs Sanji so it was a combo of that and his strength which was again highlighted by the strength of his Bo strikes.



Thing is we don't know how much of a step up is the hardening to the invisible armour.




> Except Vergo's kick wasn't even named or Armament Hardened. That was literally Luffy's best move, Vergo wasn't even near his full offensive output capabilities.



I don't think a non-named kick stops it from being very strong one. 





> I'm talking about Zoro's offense vs Vergo's defense.
> 
> Vergo can still hurt Zoro through his Guard even if he can't break his swords.



That's a skill level I don't see vergo currently having with him just being a natural tank.  I don't see him with physical strength and speed getting the drop on zoro to hit him directly to that extent especially more than once because at the very least we should appreciate that zoro's durability and endurance is quite abnormal to not get one shot with his defenses up. 

 But  maybe I'm not factoring in the bamboo and it's capabilities as much as I should as it does open up his fighting style  



> Smoker maybe got punched? Not one hit landed on Smoker throughout the arc, unless you can't Mes, or hits he took with Logia Intang. Up until that point the only on panel hits in that fight were 2 from smoker to Vergo. So he essentially got one shotted.



Right before Smoker got the belly shot, you saw he was fatigued even to the point where Vergo commented on his rash behaviour, so that leads me to believe at some point for a decent amount of time smoker was getting his ass whooped.



> And yeah it was from him swinging his bamboo stick so hard, which is more impressive since it broke through Smoker's Haki Jutte (he should be able to clash with most High tiers), Smoker's durability (which is > Town level given Baby 5 and Buffalo could move after taking Franky General Coup De Vent), and *then* made the dent



Well that shockwave possibly could be the result of his bamboo than his own physical strength,  we saw what the bamboo could do when all vergo did was blow into it.


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## Dr. White (Feb 17, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> I think smoker could avoid them at range.


Doubt it. He'd have to move all of his smoke body because any smoke that he's turned from his body into smoke, is going to be liable, and smoke diffuses through the air pretty slowly. Smoker would be screwed from long range vs Zoro.





> Don't really understand this,  can you kinds explain just a little.


Base Vergo is Vergo who can use Haki like he did vs Sanji, Tashigi, and Smoker. To harden certain body points and his bamboo stick selectively. FBH is his best form. It's pretty much his version of supersaiyan. Itheightens his offense and defense, along with his muscle mass. We haven't seen any feat from Vergo in that form though so we can only powerscale it based off of Vergo's base performance.






> Thing is we don't know how much of a step up is the hardening to the invisible armour.


Hardening is canonically stronger though. Compare Sentomaru hitting Luffy, and Marigold hitting Luffy to Sabo tapping his fist on the colosseum floor and breaking it/ Don Chinjao cracking continents with his augmented head.

People forget COA doesn't just protect/make tangible, it adds potency to attacks like the Kuja tribe arrows, low tiers were shooting.





> I don't think a non-named kick stops it from being very strong one.


But your comparison used one of Luffy's Mid to High Tier moves, vs a basic one from Vergo. If he was hardened (no homo) I could see your point.







> That's a skill level I don't see vergo currently having with him just being a natural tank.  I don't see him with physical strength and speed getting the drop on zoro to hit him directly to that extent especially more than once because at the very least we should appreciate that zoro's durability and endurance is quite abnormal to not get one shot with his defenses up.


Why are you assuming Vergo is all muscle? He trains as a fighter everyday as a Marine. He also is skilled in Rokushiki, which is a martial artist. So he isn't just some odd Brawler like Smoker. Vergo's Haki is much better than Zoro's, so everytime Zoro clashes with him he's going to be taking alot of force. If Zoro tries to block an Oni Take it could very well break his guard.

And I'm not even factoring in FBH mode Oni Take...



> Right before Smoker got the belly shot, you saw he was fatigued even to the point where Vergo commented on his rash behaviour, so that leads me to believe at some point for a decent amount of time smoker was getting his ass whooped.


Eh if Ace could fight for multiple days as a rookie, Smoker should be fine fighting for a couple hours. Panting really means nothing to me at this point, except an indication of effort. Oda showed us Smoker blocking every on panel blow from vergo an actively countering him twice. Smoker never took a significant injury on panel in PH until Oni Take. 




> Well that shockwave possibly could be the result of his bamboo than his own physical strength,  we saw what the bamboo could do when all vergo did was blow into it.


What? I don't understand this argument.

The whole point is vergo's Haki being strong along with his massive physical strength. (Just like Sabo's Dragon Breath is a mix of his technique/strength/ and haki) That's why he told Smoker "You know how dangerous even a piece of bamboo can become when clad in my armaments". Vergo pretty much told him he could pick up a broom stick and still whoop his ass.

Also the bamboo stick itself has nothing to do with that explosive thing. That was Vergo spitting a projectile that fast and presumably it being clad in Haki. The whole focus around vergo was him using his Haki and Raw Stats to make ordinary things into deadly weapons.


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## Canute87 (Feb 18, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> Doubt it. He'd have to move all of his smoke body because any smoke that he's turned from his body into smoke, is going to be liable, and smoke diffuses through the air pretty slowly. Smoker would be screwed from long range vs Zoro.



Can't see that being an issue, we can't use what hapened to smoker against vergo as a testament that the same thing  that gives him an advantage is also a great weakness.  Remember smoker didn't change his tactics against vergo.




> Base Vergo is Vergo who can use Haki like he did vs Sanji, Tashigi, and Smoker. To harden certain body points and his bamboo stick selectively. FBH is his best form. It's pretty much his version of supersaiyan. Itheightens his offense and defense, along with his muscle mass. We haven't seen any feat from Vergo in that form though so we can only powerscale it based off of Vergo's base performance.



I don't think it increases his offences any more than his  regular hardening would already do. 





> Why are you assuming Vergo is all muscle? He trains as a fighter everyday as a Marine. He also is skilled in Rokushiki, which is a martial artist. So he isn't just some odd Brawler like Smoker. Vergo's Haki is much better than Zoro's, so everytime Zoro clashes with him he's going to be taking alot of force. *If Zoro tries to block an Oni Take it could very well break his guard.*
> 
> And I'm not even factoring in FBH mode Oni Take...



If he counter acts with a technique of his own i doubt that.




> Eh if Ace could fight for multiple days as a rookie, Smoker should be fine fighting for a couple hours. Panting really means nothing to me at this point, except an indication of effort. Oda showed us Smoker blocking every on panel blow from vergo an actively countering him twice. Smoker never took a significant injury on panel in PH until Oni Take.



Why exactly would smoker look like that if he wasn't getting hit?  He was shown to be be quite fine the panels you saw him hitting vergo  then the during the off panel scenes we saw him panting and bruised.  The point of vergo's words is to highlight that whatever smoker was using wasn't working anymore which means he was getting hit.  Maybe not by the bamboo techniques but we know the significant injury vergo can do on his own merit.



> The whole point is vergo's Haki being strong along with his massive physical strength. (Just like Sabo's Dragon Breath is a mix of his technique/strength/ and haki) That's why he told Smoker "You know how dangerous even a piece of bamboo can become when clad in my armaments". Vergo pretty much told him he could pick up a broom stick and still whoop his ass.
> 
> Also the bamboo stick itself has nothing to do with that explosive thing. That was Vergo spitting a projectile that fast and presumably it being clad in Haki. The whole focus around vergo was him using his Haki and Raw Stats to make ordinary things into deadly weapons.



I disagree.  I saw vergo do this my simply blowing into it.


*Spoiler*: __ 








Obviously that bamboo has some properties that enables it to produce that kind of destruction.

Him bending the frame was the bamboo at work just like how he was able to blow into it and it did that crazy shit.


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## Dr. White (Feb 18, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> Can't see that being an issue, we can't use what hapened to smoker against vergo as a testament that the same thing  that gives him an advantage is also a great weakness.  Remember smoker didn't change his tactics against vergo.


He has nothing to counter Zoro with at Range, whilst Zoro has a plethora of slashes and tornadoes to throw at him. Sure Smoker can dodge some but at range he can't do anything.





> I don't think it increases his offences any more than his  regular hardening would already do.


That's preposterous. The man beefed up like A'rod in the 2000's. 

Sanji got hurt by basic invisible COA. Yet Law took 1 of those to the upperbody, and then 2 hardened hits directly to the face. 

You think Law could repeat that vs FBH Vergo?

Why would Oda showcase a ridiculous new Haki Mode, that increases the users musclemass, if it didn't do anything to his attack power? 







> If he counter acts with a technique of his own i doubt that.


Well then yeah, but I'm just pointing out that Vergo has the ability to pressure Zoro even in base with his Bamboo staff. Vs FBH Vergo, Zoro is gonna need top tier attak from his arsenal to survive.






> Why exactly would smoker look like that if he wasn't getting hit?  He was shown to be be quite fine the panels you saw him hitting vergo  then the during the off panel scenes we saw him panting and bruised.  The point of vergo's words is to highlight that whatever smoker was using wasn't working anymore which means he was getting hit.  Maybe not by the bamboo techniques but we know the significant injury vergo can do on his own merit.


This really doesn't mean much to me. Smoker was not in any condition that would significantly effect his ability to take Oni Take any better. People exchange punches all the time before a knock out punch IRL, yet in most cases that knock out punch would have put the party out prior to the earlier lighter jabs. Same case here. 

Hell I can even argue Smoker didn't take the full brunt of the blow seeing as he even registered a Haki Weapon defense, that got blown through like a twig.




> I disagree.  I saw vergo do this my simply blowing into it.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


Bro you can clearly see a projectile coming out of the tip. It was a mix of his armaments and his incredible lung strength. The bamboo has nothing at all to do with it. As I said Vergo very clearly laid out to Smoker that his haki is beast enough to turn simple day shit into a weapon.

If Kuja fodder can imbue their arrows to pierce through solid rock, why can't Vergo use his Haki to enhance his bamboo darts? All that energy you see in the panel is just kinetic energy from how fast it was going and how strong it was.


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## Canute87 (Feb 18, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> He has nothing to counter Zoro with at Range, whilst Zoro has a plethora of slashes and tornadoes to throw at him. Sure Smoker can dodge some but at range he can't do anything.



He can get close.  Dude you can't really expect this is an issue for smoker.






> That's preposterous. The man beefed up like A'rod in the 2000's.
> 
> Sanji got hurt by basic invisible COA. Yet Law took 1 of those to the upperbody, and then 2 hardened hits directly to the face.
> 
> You think Law could repeat that vs FBH Vergo?





> Why would Oda showcase a ridiculous new Haki Mode, that increases the users musclemass, if it didn't do anything to his attack power?



Why would he need a new haki mode against law?  Another oni take in that state and law would have been taken out.  It was ultimate defense for him. 

Whether or not that was a natural increase to his muscles I don't know  oda tends to go a little over the top  at times. We saw vergo clothed before he took of his shirt.



> *This really doesn't mean much to me. Smoker was not in any condition that would significantly effect his ability to take Oni Take any better*. People exchange punches all the time before a knock out punch IRL, yet in most cases that knock out punch would have put the party out prior to the earlier lighter jabs. Same case here.
> 
> Hell I can even argue Smoker didn't take the full brunt of the blow seeing as he even registered a Haki Weapon defense, that got blown through like a twig.



That's because you're writing off smoker panting as not to be taken as something significant.

Do people NOT Pant when they are tired and bruised?  You can make a claim that it means nothing to you but you can't dismiss it as being a possibility seeing that's exactly what people do when they are tired and bruised.




> Bro you can clearly see a projectile coming out of the tip. *It was a mix of his armaments and his incredible lung strength*. The bamboo has nothing at all to do with it. As I said Vergo very clearly laid out to Smoker that his haki is beast enough to turn simple day shit into a weapon.
> 
> If Kuja fodder can imbue their arrows to pierce through solid rock, why can't Vergo use his Haki to enhance his bamboo darts? All that energy you see in the panel is just kinetic energy from how fast it was going and how strong it was.



So he could have achieved that by simply blowing regularly?


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## Dr. White (Feb 18, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> He can get close.  Dude you can't really expect this is an issue for smoker.



This was never my argument. I said Smoker is outclassed at range, if he gets close he's no longer at range. Why does he need to get close? Because he's outclassed at range.





> That's because you're writing off smoker panting as not to be taken as something significant.


It isn't. It doesn't make logical sense. Given the durability of high tiers, and one Piece humans in general, it makes no sense that him sparring with Vergo and taking some no name, no author highlighted blows, somehow signifigantly lowered his ability to take Oni Take.

Jozu and Aokiji clashed off panel before Aokji froze him, did the blows he sustained do anything? 

Sabo had bruises before he got hit with Horizontal Tiger. HE was forced to use logia reform on his crushed skull. Would he have survived the blow any better if he wasn't bruised and panting vs Fujitora?

Law was panting against Smoker. Which showed what? Law needed some effort to put him down. Law never got hit, and Smoker never got actually hit until Mes. 



> Do people NOT Pant when they are tired and bruised?  You can make a claim that it means nothing to you but you can't dismiss it as being a possibility seeing that's exactly what people do when they are tired and bruised.


I completely can for multiple reasons.
A.) One Piece high tiers can fight for days with an evenly matched foe.

Smoker is a high tier, with high tier durability and Haki. 

Smoker only got hit by one on panel attack. 

Any attack he got hit with off screen is unquantifiable and really not relevant because the author didn't feel the need to focus on it. Being bruised had nothing to do with Smoker's ability not to get one shot.

As I mentioned Smoker didn't even take the whole blow. His Jutte with COA took force before it made contact with him, and it still soloed him.

If Smoker would have soloed Vergo with the on panel punch or elbow he landed I would take your point. Because we saw him get hit on panel by 2 DJ's and a countershock (all significant named, and on panel attacks). Smoker? Broke a few sweats, and got into a scuffle with Law (who didn't injure him).





> So he could have achieved that by simply blowing regularly?


No. Obviously he is using the Bamboo stick as a blow pipe. It's a long channel of air that can be pressurized and eject a projectile at high speeds. But it's completely dependent on his lung skill (to propel the dart at high speeds) and his COA (to imbue the dart with offensive power).

He uses his skill through his blowdart to project, just like a swordsman uses a sword to slash.


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## Canute87 (Feb 18, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> This was never my argument. I said Smoker is outclassed at range, if he gets close he's no longer at range. Why does he need to get close? Because he's outclassed at range.



But why would I be arguing him fighting at range when his skills sets are not really tied to that area?




> It isn't. It doesn't make logical sense. Given the durability of high tiers, and one Piece humans in general, it makes no sense that him sparring with Vergo and taking some no name, no author highlighted blows, somehow signifigantly lowered his ability to take Oni Take.



But that's the problem with off panel things right?



> Jozu and Aokiji clashed off panel before Aokji froze him, did the *blows* he sustained do anything?



But there's no evidence of him getting any more blows on AoKiji after the first punk. 



> Sabo had bruises before he got hit with Horizontal Tiger. HE was forced to use logia reform on his crushed skull. Would he have survived the blow any better if he wasn't bruised and panting vs Fujitora?


You mean would be be forced to go into logia form?  Well yeah  don't see why that would change anything.



> Law was panting against Smoker. Which showed what? Law needed some effort to put him down. Law never got hit, and Smoker never got actually hit until Mes.



Law wasn't bruised though.  Mes isn't a physical attack  it's a one shot. 




> I completely can for multiple reasons.
> A.) One Piece high tiers can fight for days with an evenly matched foe.



Smoker and Vergo aren't evenly matched though. 



> Smoker only got hit by one on panel attack.


And he could have gotten hit by more. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it couldn't happen.

If you want to argue that he didn't why not appreciate that Smoker left himself open in that instance taking the full blow in order to get law's heart?

You can't argue there was nothing he could have done in that instance when we know just exactly what he was aiming for.



> Any attack he got hit with off screen is unquantifiable and really not relevant because the author didn't feel the need to focus on it. Being bruised had nothing to do with Smoker's ability not to get one shot.


If Oda took the panel from a state where Smoker looks to be in complete control to a point where vergo looks dominant it can't be assumed it's irrelevant because the author didn't show it on panel.

It's there a reason for Oda to be showing Vergo going regular haki punches and kicks when we know the damage he can already deal with it?




> As I mentioned Smoker didn't even take the whole blow. His Jutte with COA took force before it made contact with him, and it still soloed him.



It didn't take any force,  it went right through his defenses.  That's like saying because someone has tekkai they don't get the whole blow when it's broken.  When at attack is that strong against the defense it matters none at all.



> [If Smoker would have soloed Vergo with the on panel punch or elbow he landed I would take your point. Because we saw him get hit on panel by 2 DJ's and a countershock (all significant named, and on panel attacks). Smoker? Broke a few sweats, and got into a scuffle with Law (who didn't injure him).



Why would he solo with an elbow?



> No. Obviously he is using the Bamboo stick as a blow pipe. It's a long channel of air that can be pressurized and eject a projectile at high speeds. But it's completely dependent on his lung skill (to propel the dart at high speeds) and his COA (to imbue the dart with offensive power).



Yeah but we saw the blow dark inflating to a significant size.  Blow dart withheld the pressure and sent it out  in one go through a hardened narrow channel increasing the pressure even further doing that massive damage.  

Regular lungs can't do that. The human body can't do that.



> He uses his skill through his blowdart to project, just like a swordsman uses a sword to slash.


That's nice you used the swordsman example.

Surely you don't believe that Mihawk without a sword could cut the iceberg as he did by swinging his hand right?


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## Dr. White (Feb 18, 2015)

Off to class be back later in the day


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## Canute87 (Feb 18, 2015)

Cool look forward to it.


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## Canute87 (Feb 18, 2015)

Gonna have to attack this tomorrow mon ami.


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## Nox (Feb 22, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Come on now Issho.
> 
> Sanji is fodder. Zoro took him out easy in thriller bark.
> 
> ...




10char


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 22, 2015)

Bambino said:


> 10char



Joke post bra.


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## Intus Legere (Feb 23, 2015)

Turrin said:


> Zoro vs Vergo back in PH would probably have been extreme diff with it potentially going ether way. DR, Zoro would probably High (High) or at absolute best High (Mid) diff him.



What makes you believe that Zoro got any stronger from Punk Hazard to Dressrosa?


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## maupp (Feb 23, 2015)

And the Vergo wank surges on . 

Man these vergotards are making the hakuba's fanbase seem cute and tame in the wanking department in comparison and this is a feat considering Habuba was being fapped on as above the likes of Admirals speed wise etc . 

Vergo pushing Zoro to extreme diff :rofl. Congratulation you folks have outdone yourselves. 

How does one guy goes from getting one shoted by Law to being of caliber of pushing Zoro extreme diff . 

Dude gets wasted mid diff and Zoro throws a one liner mocking his fallen ass .


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 23, 2015)

maupp said:


> And the Vergo wank surges on .
> 
> Man these vergotards are making the hakuba's fanbase seem cute and tame in the wanking department in comparison and this is a feat considering Habuba was being fapped on as above the likes of Admirals speed wise etc .
> 
> ...



Implying Zoro wouldn't get One shot by the same attack Vergo did.


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## Dr. White (Feb 23, 2015)

maupp said:


> How does one guy goes from getting one shoted by Law to being of caliber of pushing Zoro extreme diff .


If Zoro came at Law with Shi shi Son Son, Zoro would lose with the same difficulty.

Edit: Ninja'd.


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## Etherborn (Feb 23, 2015)

maupp said:


> And the Vergo wank surges on .
> 
> Man these vergotards are making the hakuba's fanbase seem cute and tame in the wanking department in comparison and this is a feat considering Habuba was being fapped on as above the likes of Admirals speed wise etc .
> 
> Vergo pushing Zoro to extreme diff :rofl. Congratulation you folks have outdone yourselves.



You are right to mock this answer. A more accurate answer is the fight could go either way because it is not a given that Zoro would beat Vergo at all. 



> How does one guy goes from getting one shoted by Law to being of caliber of pushing Zoro extreme diff



Well it all goes back to the fact that Zoro's feats and portrayal are far inferior to Law's you see. 



> Dude gets wasted mid diff and Zoro throws a one liner mocking his fallen ass .



I guess in a sense this is what the series has come to. In most cases whoever has the best one liners wins the fight because the potential of those one liners would be wasted otherwise. 

What's most likely to happen though is either that Zoro throws a one liner before the fight is over like with Pica because the fight isn't ending fast enough for Oda's tastes. Zoro needs to get a one liner out during a certain time interval after the fight begins whether or not he can end it by then. There's a formula for these things you know.


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## Wayne With The Ism (Feb 23, 2015)

maupp said:


> And the Vergo wank surges on .
> 
> Man these vergotards are making the hakuba's fanbase seem cute and tame in the wanking department in comparison and this is a feat considering Habuba was being fapped on as above the likes of Admirals speed wise etc .
> 
> ...



Legit everything you said here could be replaced with Zoro instead of Vergo and still make perfect sense.


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## batman22wins (Feb 23, 2015)

Zoro is captain level people. Vergo is going to get mid diff.


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## Atlas (Feb 23, 2015)

Zoro would have to use as much haki and a strong enough attack to be able to significantly damage or ko Vergo, just like with Law.


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