# Gilgamesh (Archer) vs Karna (Lancer)



## WorldsStrongest (Nov 27, 2017)

General OBD Rules

No Ea for Gil

*Round 2*

If Gil wins, give Karna Siegfried (Saber)


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Nov 27, 2017)

I like how you crippled gil for this match when he admits he needs to take karna seriously or die 

Nice and unbalanced

Round 2 siegfried doesn't contribute anything except as a momentary distraction for gil

Reactions: Like 1


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## Porshion (Nov 27, 2017)

Karna gives Gil the win since hes the Hero of Charity

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Kurou (Nov 27, 2017)

OZZY OUT OF NOWHERE WITH THE PYRAMID

Reactions: Funny 3


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## TYPE-Rey (Nov 27, 2017)

Enuma Elish for the win.Yeah,thats right. Like Gil gives a shit about your rules. Mongrells will die.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Nov 27, 2017)

Kurou said:


> OZZY OUT OF NOWHERE WITH THE PYRAMID


HE'S GOT THE DENDERA BULB

OH MY GOD HE SPLIT HIM IN HALF

OZZY THE ABSOLUTE MANIAC

Reactions: Funny 2


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## WorldsStrongest (Nov 27, 2017)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> I like how you crippled gil for this match when he admits he needs to take karna seriously or die
> 
> Nice and unbalanced
> 
> Round 2 siegfried doesn't contribute anything except as a momentary distraction for gil


I wasn't planning on restricting anything whatsoever but i read on another site some guy said Ea can planet bust easily...

Figured id restrict that on the off chance he was right


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## OneSimpleAnime (Nov 27, 2017)

Gil pulls out a homunculus and Siegfried gives him his heart while Karna and Gil drink some wine


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## OneSimpleAnime (Nov 27, 2017)

WorldsStrongest said:


> I wasn't planning on restricting anything whatsoever but i read on another site some guy said Ea can planet bust easily...
> 
> Figured id restrict that on the off chance he was right


If Karna uses VS then Gil cant win without Ea. GoB doesnt have anything to counter it and 90% dmg reduction is a bitch to anything in Gil's arsenal


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## CrossTheHorizon (Nov 27, 2017)

Can't Gil render Karna semi-helpless with Enkidu? Anti-divinity and all that.


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## TYPE-Rey (Nov 27, 2017)

Yeah even  so those  two  are close  in power.  You don t just take someone s strongest weapon away from him when he specifically stated that he cant acord to fuck around against this oponent otherwise he would die


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## WorldsStrongest (Nov 27, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Yeah even  so those  two  are close  in power.  You don t just take someone s strongest weapon away from him when he specifically stated that he cant acord to fuck around against this oponent otherwise he would die


As i said only reason i did that was i saw someone state Ea could planet bust

And i figured 10% of a planet busting attack would still end karna


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## TYPE-Rey (Nov 27, 2017)

Yeah no , his armor says hello


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Nov 27, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Gil pulls out a homunculus and Siegfried gives him his heart while Karna and Gil drink some wine


This joke isn't funny and neither are you

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Blade (Nov 27, 2017)

this match is as fair as armless Susanoo vs Hakumen


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## Sablés (Nov 27, 2017)

Can someone link me the quote where it's said Gilgamesh explicitly needs Ea against Karna or he'll die? Because Gilgamesh fighting an opponent seriously doesn't mean he's going to pull out Ea. In some cases, doing so makes him complacent.

IMO, A serious Gilgamesh is a hypothetical version who's using Gate of Babylon as he's supposed to instead of chucking spears and hoping he shanks someone. Fucker's got all the versatility in the world (including shit that bypasses armor, regen or has some spacial fuckery) and is the strongest servant because he's capable of countering the rest of them.

If he's got a prototype of Lord Camelot then he can handle Vasavi Shatki.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Qinglong (Nov 27, 2017)

Lord Camelot is based on the user's willpower. And is something which can't be projected.


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## Sablés (Nov 27, 2017)

Gonna need an elaboration on that one. Willpower is what's necessary fort the shield to block anything, which Gilgamesh has in spades. It wouldn't replication either but a retroactive prototype, that should have its conceptual defense. Afaik, the only shit not included in GoB are NPs of alien or in most cases, divine origin. I don't believe Lord Camelot falls into either.


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## TYPE-Rey (Nov 27, 2017)

Gilgamesh doesn't know how to use half of the shit he's got inside GOB asside from firing them like bullets. It also doesn't help that we don't have a lot of depictions of him using weapons from GOB like they were inteded so we cant say for sure what he knows how to use and what he doesn't .


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## Qinglong (Nov 27, 2017)

GoB doesn't contain crystallizations of legend either. Lord Camelot isn't something which can be replicated in the first place, it's literally the ideal of the Round Table itself.


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## Kurou (Nov 27, 2017)

Was just going to say he literally chucks shit at people because his actual proficiency with those weapons are garb. Which is why a "serious" Gil will go straight to Ea. Its the only one he actually knows how to use


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## Qinglong (Nov 27, 2017)

Kurou said:


> Was just going to say he literally chucks shit at people because his actual proficiency with those weapons are garb. Which is why a "serious" Gil will go straight to Ea. Its the only one he actually knows how to use



He doesn't even use that right because it's meant for creation not destruction


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## Kurou (Nov 27, 2017)

Half proficiency is better than no proficiency


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## Kurou (Nov 27, 2017)

To this day Gil is still convinced a sword becomes a bastard sword when you use it to kill orphans

Reactions: Funny 2


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Nov 27, 2017)

Hey man if it works it works


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## CrossTheHorizon (Nov 27, 2017)

ANCIENT BABYLONIAN NUKES

I'm still waiting for that to be an actual thing


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## TYPE-Rey (Nov 27, 2017)

Then you better start praying for Narita's health.


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## CrossTheHorizon (Nov 27, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Then you better start praying for Narita's health.



I would prefer the NUKES in a setting where they don't get shot out of the sky by lol!Alcides but I'll settle


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## TYPE-Rey (Nov 27, 2017)

CrossTheHorizon said:


> I would prefer the NUKES in a setting where they don't get shot out of the sky by lol!Alcides but I'll settle


You'd rather have Higashide or Sakurai (though i like Fragments) doing it ? Or hell, Hiroyama ?


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## CrossTheHorizon (Nov 27, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> You'd rather have Higashide or Sakurai (though i like Fragments) doing it ? Or hell, Hiroyama ?



Was kinda hoping for Nasu tbh


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## TYPE-Rey (Nov 27, 2017)

CrossTheHorizon said:


> Was kinda hoping for Nasu tbh


I think Nasu is busy with GO and with the upcoming Extra game, but sure, i would like to see Nasu not abusing some of the concepts of Fate like Narita did.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Nov 27, 2017)

I'd take hiroyama over sakurai because it's always amusing to see him write stupid shit and then have nasu retcon it like 2 months later


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## TYPE-Rey (Nov 27, 2017)

I would be more worried about Tine getting into loli lesbo bait with another character if Hiroyama would get his hands on Fake.


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## CrossTheHorizon (Nov 27, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> I think Nasu is busy with GO and with the upcoming Extra game, but sure, i would like to see Nasu not abusing some of the concepts of Fate like Narita did.



I mean, he could put the NUKES in the Extra game or GO.

Make a rider version that uses that as his NP or some shit.


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## Sablés (Nov 27, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Gilgamesh doesn't know how to use half of the shit he's got inside GOB asside from firing them like bullets. It also doesn't help that we don't have a lot of depictions of him using weapons from GOB like they were inteded so we cant say for sure what he knows how to use and what he doesn't .





Kurou said:


> Was just going to say he literally chucks shit at people because his actual proficiency with those weapons are garb. Which is why a "serious" Gil will go straight to Ea. Its the only one he actually knows how to use



It's clear Gilgamesh has a good idea of what's in his vault along with their effects considering Nasu states that to deal with Tsubame Gaeshi, Gil would pull out a random defense that would deflect dimensional attacks. As if that kind of shit has mundane applications.

We've seen him use NPs and similar products of human ingenuity many times. His first fight with Saber in FSN has him stomping her in melee using the abilities of multiple NPs instead of sword spam. His fight against Altera has him crippling her with poison. Most of his extra offensives has him chaining NPs together and a good bunch of his CCC dialogue is about making off-hand comments on how he'll pull out X to deal with a given situation, including an FTL spaceship after being flung light years away. That's not even getting into SF.

Sword spam is often preferable because it requires minimal input on his part and you could count on your hands the number of servants who would require him to fight technically anyway. Although I'm not even arguing against the spam itself, I'm saying he can do more than rely on the physical aspect and use their abilities.



> Gilgamesh battles by shooting the originals of all Noble Phantasms like bullets via Gate of Babylon. The tactic yields excellent destructive power to magic energy efficiency. Since every Noble Phantasm is a bullet, the real magical energy used is merely the activation cost of Gate of Babylon. *Because he possesses the originals of all Noble Phantasms, he can assault the weakness of any Servants. As a result, Gilgamesh has the advantage over most of the Servants in combat. *
> Because he has absolute self-confidence, he is able to calmly show himself before his opponents. However, depending on mood, he is also fine with scoring kills by raining Noble Phantasms behind the enemies’ back. The will of the king cannot be simply gauged by the concept of tactic.


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## Kurou (Nov 27, 2017)

None of that changes what was said 

He knows how to use them

He's not actually _proficient_ with any of them 


relying on gimmicks against people that could legit kill you is a good way to die


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## Sablés (Nov 27, 2017)

Kurou said:


> None of that changes what was said
> 
> He knows how to use them





reyatsuguy said:


> Gilgamesh doesn't know how to use half of the shit he's got inside GOB asside from firing them like bullets. It also doesn't help that we don't have a lot of depictions of him using weapons from GOB like they were inteded so we cant say for sure what he knows how to use and what he doesn't .







> He's not actually _proficient_ with any of them


He's _proficient _enough to best Saber and Altera with them. The latter of whom is probably Karna-tier anyway.

You're also missing the point.



Sablés said:


> Although I'm not even arguing against the spam itself, I'm saying he can do more than rely on the physical aspect and use their abilities.


Which is basically fighting the same way he always does, just doing more with it and not holding back their true power.


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## TYPE-Rey (Nov 27, 2017)

Gilgamesh doesn't even know the full content of his treasury,why would we assume he knows how to use it all in this case ?
Maybe "half of his shit" was an exageration but still...
Also, he is not particuraly proeficient with a lot of weapons. Shirou is an "wielder" of a weapon. That gives him the capability to use that weapon at it's full potentiall while Gil is an "owner" who doesn't give a shit aboust mastering weapons. That's one of the main reasons Shirou defetead him in the first place.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Nov 27, 2017)

Shirou isn't a wielder by any stretch of the imagination

He beat him because all his swords were ready and waiting while gil has to pull his from the treasury apart from a nice big dose of Industrial Grade PIS being slapped onto Gil


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## TYPE-Rey (Nov 27, 2017)

PIS is the main reason Gil lost , sure, but i thought something like that was said or maybe i'm remembering the wrong quotes.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Nov 27, 2017)

Shirou flat out says that Gil and Him are the same, they're not "wielders" but owners. Even with UBW and a million swords he'd still lose to a heroic spirit that mastered just one, but against gil all his swords were there already.

That's why Gil is the only heroic spirit "Shirou Emiya has a chance of defeating" or something along those lines.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Sablés (Nov 27, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Gilgamesh doesn't even know the full content of his treasury,why would we assume he knows how to use it all in this case ?





> *Because he possesses the originals of all Noble Phantasms, he can assault the weakness of any Servants. As a result, Gilgamesh has the advantage over most of the Servants in combat. *


This is Gil's claim to fame as the servant killer and why they're generally powerless against him. What is even the point if he isn't aware or can't use the abilities of most of his treasures?



> Also, he is not particuraly proeficient with a lot of weapons.


See my reply to Kurou.



> That's one of the main reasons Shirou defetead him in the first place.


Shirou defeating Gilgamesh wasn't sensible in the slightest. It was Nasu having to shove a square down a circle and hoping it'd fit. He's even admitted that Gilgamesh loses in all routes because the plot needs him to.

Hell, pretty sure it's stated that once Gil regained his composure, he'd have floored Shirou anyway.


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## Kurou (Nov 27, 2017)

Sablés said:


> He's _proficient _enough to best Saber and Altera with them. The latter of whom is probably Karna-tier anyway.
> 
> You're also missing the point.
> 
> ...



Ye yer wordy. I get it 


Using poison to beat someone isnt beating them. Its something you use whwn you cant win a fair fight

And Saber is trash thats been established


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## Sablés (Nov 27, 2017)

Kurou said:


> Ye yer wordy. I get it



I've improved though 




> Using poison to beat someone isnt beating them. Its something you use whwn you cant win a fair fight




Stfu

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## CrossTheHorizon (Nov 27, 2017)

Kurou said:


> Ye yer wordy. I get it
> 
> 
> Using poison to beat someone isnt beating them. Its something you use whwn you cant win a fair fight
> ...





Kurou said:


> Using poison to beat someone isnt beating them. Its something you use when you cant win a fair fight





Kurou said:


> cant win a fair fight





How Fucking boosted was Altera in Extella to necessitate that from Gil?


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## TYPE-Rey (Nov 27, 2017)

Sablés said:


> This is Gil's claim to fame as the servant killer and why they're generally powerless against him. What is even the point if he isn't aware or can't use the abilities of most of his treasures


His opponent isn't "most servants". He is one of the few one that were established as a threat to him. Gimping him by taking EA away  and leaving him with only GOB might not be enough in this case. That was the point. Especially  when you take into account the 90% damage reduction that Karna's armour offers + his offensive capabilities that are beyond the norm. Gillgamesh probably has something in his treasury that could pose a threat to Karna but i don't remember any concrete depiction or impressive feat of such a weapon asside from GOB spam and Enkidu.


Sablés said:


> Shirou defeating Gilgamesh wasn't sensible in the slightest. It was Nasu having to shove a square down a circle and hoping it'd fit. He's even admitted that Gilgamesh loses in all routes because the plot needs him to


Sure, but that fight made it clear that none of them have mastery of their weapons and that might hurt him against Karna.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Nov 27, 2017)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> Shirou flat out says that Gil and Him are the same, they're not "wielders" but owners. Even with UBW and a million swords he'd still lose to a heroic spirit that mastered just one, but against gil all his swords were there already.
> 
> That's why Gil is the only heroic spirit "Shirou Emiya has a chance of defeating" or something along those lines.



That's still a stupid sentiment

Because the only universe that notion functions in is one where the "wielders" have all mastered their weapons equally to one another thus always ensuring his degraded copy of their abilities will always be lower

Then you move into variation between how strong/fast they were too and you get one of Shirou's most nonsensical claims about his abilities


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## Sablés (Nov 27, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> His opponent isn't "most servants". He is one of the few one that were established as a threat to him. Gimping him by taking EA away  and leaving him with only GOB might not be enough in this case. That was the point. Especially  when you take into account the 90% damage reduction that Karna's armour offers + his offensive capabilities that are beyond the norm. Gillgamesh probably has something in his treasury that could pose a threat to Karna but i don't remember any concrete depiction or impressive feat of such a weapon asside from GOB spam and Enkidu.
> 
> Sure, but that fight made it clear that none of them have mastery of their weapons and that might hurt him against Karna.


VS might gimp him in power but Karna's still got  versatility to deal with. Count Enkidu, a sickle that cuts through armor and A rank NPs in his vault.

Gil has enough shit to stay competitive and even Karna's best tech isn't without drawbacks, which is why its a last resort.

What it means to be a master in this context is of questionable relevance


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## ChaosTheory123 (Nov 27, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> PIS is the main reason Gil lost , sure, but i thought something like that was said or maybe i'm remembering the wrong quotes.



The term you’re looking for is CIS

PIS implies the characters harming/killing Gil don’t possess the raw power normally to do so

CIS is the character fucking up because they possess character flaws that get in the way of optimal performance

Reactions: Informative 1


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## OneSimpleAnime (Nov 27, 2017)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> The term you’re looking for is CIS
> 
> PIS implies the characters harming/killing Gil don’t possess the raw power normally to do so
> 
> CIS is the character fucking up because they possess character flaws that get in the way of optimal performance


IIRC Shirou normally doesnt have the firepower to take down Gil without pushing himself to deaths door, but Gil wasnt wearing his bullshit armor so "regular" swords were enough for Shirou to harm him.



Also he didnt beat Altera with poison, she was gimped from the start since she was running on her own mana since Hakuno didnt want to support her yet. When He starts giving her mana she does shit like smacking Nero out of her Regalia with normal sword swings (iirc) and supposedly "cleaving space" or something


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## Sablés (Nov 27, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Also he didnt beat Altera with poison, she was gimped from the start since she was running on her own mana since Hakuno didnt want to support her yet. When He starts giving her mana she does shit like *smacking Nero out of her Regalia with normal sword swings (iirc) and supposedly "cleaving space" or something*


Servants run on their own power just fine. What she wanted was Hakuno's subordination.

His/Her contribution was curing the poison via code cast.  I don't remember the bolded either. She's comparable (stated by Archie) or only slightly more powerful than them.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Nov 27, 2017)

Sablés said:


> Servants run on their own power just fine. What she wanted was Hakuno's subordination.
> 
> His/Her contribution was curing the poison via code cast.  I don't remember the bolded either. She's comparable (stated by Archie) or only slightly more powerful than them.


Its shown in her Extella maneuver and Saber mentions it after she gets bodied. 

She doesnt run on her own power fine, she said she needed Hakuno's mana to support her.


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## Sablés (Nov 27, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Its shown in her Extella maneuver and Saber mentions it after she gets bodied.


Well that's pretty strange if true, considering the regalia wielders not only beat her but Nero explicitly defends against her most powerful attack,

Nero took her space cleave in base as well. and commented her powerful it was for a non-NP



> She doesnt run on her own power fine, she said she needed Hakuno's mana to support her.


How when literally every other servant doesn't?


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## OneSimpleAnime (Nov 27, 2017)

Sablés said:


> Well that's pretty strange if true, considering the regalia wielders not only beat her but Nero explicitly defends against her most powerful attack,
> 
> Nero took her space cleave in base as well. and commented her powerful it was for a non-NP


Top tier servants confirmed to have resistance to spacial cutting 

That Altera's normal swings even cleave space is ridiculous in its own right considering there are people stronger than her 



Sablés said:


> How when literally every other servant doesn't?


Most of them are summoned by the moon cell or have Hakuno supporting them. Gil just has really high independent action


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## ChaosTheory123 (Nov 27, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> IIRC Shirou normally doesnt have the firepower to take down Gil without pushing himself to deaths door, but Gil wasnt wearing his bullshit armor so "regular" swords were enough for Shirou to harm him.



Still a product of Gil's CIS more than a lack of Shirou's ability in a normal situation vs an unarmored Gil though

His abilities weren't elevated to let him effect Gil, but rather Gil's character flaws fucked him over in some way

Kind of a given when the fucker can consistently harm people as durable as Berserker or Saber Alter with some weapon or another (Caliburn and Kanshou and Bakuya respectively)

Both of which are hilariously beyond Gil's natural durability in the first place. His armor not withstanding, his ability to take a hit is rather mediocre (on par with Shirou Saber, EMIYA, Cursed Arm Hassan, and Cu Chulainn)


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## 2Bid (Dec 14, 2017)

Kurou said:


> Ye yer wordy. I get it
> 
> 
> Using poison to beat someone isnt beating them. Its something you use whwn you cant win a fair fight
> ...


That's horrible logic and makes no sense, that Noble Phantasm which deals poison came from Gate of Babylon, not from an outside party, thus it is every bit as fair as it is within Gil's power. You might as well say using beams or swords to beat someone isn't beating them. Besides, Altera as a Heroic Spirit isn't that strong. It's implied Gil was going easy and could have wrecked her, even Iskandar's side story showed Altera struggling against him when he was at full power. Nah, Artoria's still top tier with the Excalibur wank

For Gil vs Karna, well I doubt Gil's gonna win without Ea. Gonna need his drill-staff to beat Karna


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## Qinglong (Dec 14, 2017)

>Altera isn't that strong

just stop right there


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## 2Bid (Dec 14, 2017)

Qinglong said:


> >Altera isn't that strong
> 
> just stop right there


*AS A HEROIC SPIRIT? *Yes, she's not Gil or Karna tier.


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## Qinglong (Dec 14, 2017)

>right below the tops
>isn't that strong

yeahokay.jpeg

Reactions: Funny 1


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## 2Bid (Dec 14, 2017)

Did you even read my comment or do just like to take one sentence and take it out of context? She isn't THAT strong to be able to beat Gilgamesh.


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## Qinglong (Dec 14, 2017)

Are you going to back up a point or keep moving the goalposts from your original statement?


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## 2Bid (Dec 14, 2017)

What do I need to back up when all I've stated are facts? My original statement was about Altera vs Gilgamesh. Again. As a Heroic Spirit, Altera is not that strong to be able to beat him. You don't need to be spoon fed if you know the context.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 14, 2017)

Dude she fuckin kicked the shit out of Regalia Nero with a couple slashes


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## Qinglong (Dec 14, 2017)

The same regalia power which can access Formal Wear, which Tamamo literally burned out just to beat her


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## Blade (Dec 14, 2017)

Qinglong said:


> Are you going to back up a point or keep moving the goalposts from your original statement?



you argue with a dupe, in case you didn't notice


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## Qinglong (Dec 14, 2017)

Blade said:


> you argue with a dupe, in case you didn't notice



I'M REALLY BORED OKAY

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Blade (Dec 14, 2017)

Qinglong said:


> I'M REALLY BORED OKAY



in this case, rewatch Juni Taisen, brah

Reactions: Funny 1


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## 2Bid (Dec 14, 2017)

I admit I should have been more specific. As a HS, Altera isn't in that tier of power to be able to beat Gil is what I meant.


Blade said:


> you argue with a dupe, in case you didn't notice


Yes, because insults made over forums are hard indeed


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## ChaosTheory123 (Dec 14, 2017)

2Bid said:


> I admit I should have been more specific. As a HS, Altera isn't in that tier of power to be able to beat Gil is what I meant.



He's basically the top of the pyramid

So when you say she's not that strong and use that as your basis to assert the claim, the relative comparison comes off as fucking stupid *shrugs*


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## 2Bid (Dec 14, 2017)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> He's basically the top of the pyramid
> 
> So when you say she's not that strong and use that as your basis to assert the claim, the relative comparison comes off as fucking stupid *shrugs*


Not really. I originally intended to bold and caps the word "THAT" to say that she isn't as strong as people say to be able to be able to beat Gil.


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## Qinglong (Dec 14, 2017)

Teardrop Photon Ray would kill him if it hit

problem is he'll just respond with Ea


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## ChaosTheory123 (Dec 14, 2017)

Qinglong said:


> Teardrop Photon Ray would kill him if it hit
> 
> problem is he'll just respond with Ea



This goes without saying

His durability is middle of the road garbage barring his armor

Which still means he needs to defend his head anyway, as he did in the Fate route

And fucking Caliburn melted that shit quite a bit, let alone Photon Ray


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## 2Bid (Dec 14, 2017)

Qinglong said:


> Teardrop Photon Ray would kill him if it hit
> 
> problem is he'll just respond with Ea


Would probably just end like Ea vs Excalibur though



ChaosTheory123 said:


> This goes without saying
> 
> His durability is middle of the road garbage barring his armor
> 
> ...


Doesn't even need to be discussed. Teardrop Photon Ray would kill Gil just as Enuma Elish would kill Altera


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Dec 15, 2017)

Oh boy the gil wank

My favorite


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## ChaosTheory123 (Dec 15, 2017)

2Bid said:


> Doesn't even need to be discussed. Teardrop Photon Ray would kill Gil just as Enuma Elish would kill Altera



Full powered?

Sure

The combined backlash of his restrained attack and Photon Ray?

Not really given what Artoria survived (she was severely crippled and unable to fight, but she lived from the backlash of Excalibur and restrained Ea) in the Fate route

And she's a C in endurance (oddly, Shirou Saber seems to get all the fun feats *shrugs*) to Altera's A


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## Sablés (Dec 15, 2017)

Fun feat  I just remembered was that Arash survived (may or may not have died later on though) Lancelot detonating Arondight point-blank.



> Arash takes a hit from Lancelot, who excels at camouflaging himself even though he is in armour. Unfortunately, Lancelot claims, it is over for the archer. Arash laughs it off, saying that tis just a flesh wound, nothing is over yet, and that the good knight should keep him company for a bit longer. Lancelot states again that it is over. If the enemy is Arash Kamangir, then it is a cardinal rule that he must deliver his first attack with all his might. He bids Arash farewell, saying that his blade can show its true worth if facing a strong opponent like him. Then, releasing his Noble Phantasm, Lancelot cuts Arash down with Arondight Overload.



Link removed

Reactions: Informative 1


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## CrossTheHorizon (Dec 15, 2017)

Don't most Servants get Insta gibbed if they get hit full on with a Noble Phantasm? Excepting the ones with special defenses, we don't see a lot of straight up face tanking of Noble Phantasms based on actually blowing stuff up.


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## 2Bid (Dec 15, 2017)

Sablés said:


> Fun feat  I just remembered was that Arash survived (may or may not have died later on though) Lancelot detonating Arondight point-blank.


Arash survived that due to A rank Endurance and because of EX rank Robust Health

Robust Health: EX
Arash who is strongly endowed with the vestiges of the Age of Gods was born with an especially robust health. 
Not receiving a wound on the battlefield, never even becoming sick once since birth -- these anecdotes have become a skill. Constitution parameter is rank up, attacks received have their damage reduced. It is also a composite skill and includes Poison Resistance.


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## Sablés (Dec 15, 2017)

2Bid said:


> Arash survived that due to A rank Endurance and because of EX rank Robust Health
> 
> Robust Health: EX
> Arash who is strongly endowed with the vestiges of the Age of Gods was born with an especially robust health.
> Not receiving a wound on the battlefield, never even becoming sick once since birth -- these anecdotes have become a skill. Constitution parameter is rank up, attacks received have their damage reduced. It is also a composite skill and includes Poison Resistance.



I know this?

Still a pretty good feat for how high servant tolerance for pain goes.


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## Qinglong (Dec 15, 2017)

Arash survived that attack long enough to use Stella later in the Story

Karna survived Galantine with no Armor

Asterion survived Durindana Pilum in Okeanos

it happens enough times



and that's just the ones I remember off the top of my head

Reactions: Informative 1


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## 2Bid (Dec 15, 2017)

Sablés said:


> I know this?
> 
> Still a pretty good feat for how high servant tolerance for pain goes.


Oh okay. Yeah, pretty sure you can count on one hand the number of servants who've survived full blown A rank above NPs in their face


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 15, 2017)

2Bid said:


> Would probably just end like Ea vs Excalibur though
> 
> 
> Doesn't even need to be discussed. Teardrop Photon Ray would kill Gil just as Enuma Elish would kill Altera


Teardrop Photon Ray should be in the same tier as shit like Dendera Bulb. Gil would have to go full steam from the start, not a great comparison.


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## Sablés (Dec 15, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Teardrop Photon Ray should be in the same tier as shit like Dendera Bulb. Gil would have to go full steam from the start, not a great comparison.


No evidence of any of this.

Where'd the comparison to Dendera even come from?


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 15, 2017)

Sablés said:


> No evidence of any of this.
> 
> Where'd the comparison to Dendera even come from?


???? Its the wrath of a god of a freaking planet, bitchslapped Regalia, and is strong enough that it strains her Saint Graph to use it even once. Why would it not be in the same class of power as Dendera?


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## Sablés (Dec 15, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> *???? Its the wrath of a god of a freaking planet*, bitchslapped Regalia, and is strong enough that it strains her Saint Graph to use it even once. Why would it not be in the same class of power as Dendera?


Meaningless designation. Many Gods are concepts of the planet but it doesn't make them remotely as powerful as the scale you're
suggesting. Ishtar certainly is not. It's said outright in GO that Altera's Photon Ray is meager compared to what Mars was capable of anyway.

What _about _the regalia? Have you forgotten she loses to both Tamamo and Nero, even going full force and is described as their peer by Mathman? Gilgamesh was toying with her when they fought and Karna says his entire team (including Tamamo) would only have a 50/50 chance of beating him.

Regardless, I'm not arguing if Teardrop is weaker or stronger than Dendera (the strength of a shot depends on the charge), I'm wondering where you pulled that random-ass comparison into this.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Dec 15, 2017)

She loses to Tamamo and Nero due to some massive fucking gymnastics and outright murders the shit out of them both without even blinking whenever they try to fight her straight on

The entire point of the true route was that thotmamo had to burn out her regalia just to give nero a chance at winning.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 15, 2017)

Sablés said:


> Meaningless designation. Many Gods are concepts of the planet but it doesn't make them remotely as powerful as the scale you're
> suggesting. Ishtar certainly is not. It's said outright in GO that Altera's Photon Ray is meager compared to what Mars was capable of anyway.
> 
> What _about _the regalia? Have you forgotten she loses to both Tamamo and Nero, even going full force and is described as their peer by Mathman? Gilgamesh was toying with her when they fought and Karna says his entire team (including Tamamo) would only have a 50/50 chance of beating him.
> ...


Teardrop is called Mars wrath, aimed at the opponent. Ishtar is a shit and Venus by feats is > her considering the amount of bullshit it took to summon her. Why would Mars not be in the same class?

Venus took a literal Miracle, the Moon Cells full authority and the weapon of a god just to summon and even then the entire thing was held together by glue and duct tape

During their first fight Altera punks Nero with ease and during the final one Nero says that trying to block TPR would fucking shatter the Regalia.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Dec 15, 2017)

The entirety of Golden Dawn prior to saber venus is literally
"Hey you shit fox how do we not die to Altera?"
"IDK LOL"
"Welp I guess we're fucked then"


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## Sablés (Dec 15, 2017)

Nero overloads the regalia's defenses to tank Teardrop and finishes her off with the theater. The former wouldn't wouldn't be possible if she didn't hold a degree of comparability in the first place. Admittedly, Altera is definitely stronger but the point of Nero's route is that it's within her capacity to beat Altera, it'll just incur massive costs in the process if she tries to run it solo.



OneSimpleAnime said:


> Teardrop is called Mars wrath, aimed at the opponent





Sablés said:


> Altera's Photon Ray is meager compared to what Mars was capable of anyway.


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## Sablés (Dec 15, 2017)

Although the fact that the Regalia wielders need to go that far anyway makes using them as a casual reference moot, so I'll concede that point.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 15, 2017)

Its not that meager, and even with a small fraction of his power it would still blow most things out of the water


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## Qinglong (Dec 15, 2017)

>bringing up Theater coupled with an IP user

as said before, the major point that you need to take away is the fact both had to burn up and nearly shatter the Regalia to pull out a win


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## Kurou (Dec 15, 2017)

>Within her capacity
>Needed amping


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## Kurou (Dec 15, 2017)

im pretty sure if you gave me a gun it'd be in my capacity to beat Mike Tyson


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## CrownedEagle (Dec 15, 2017)

if he play around, Gilgamesh win the first scenario with extreme difficulty (Enkidu is still a bitch for servant like Karna) and loose the second scenario, if he serious from the start he could possibily wins both with mid (1th scenario) to extreme difficulty (second).


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 15, 2017)

> Totally not a Garbs dupe. No sir.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## 2Bid (Dec 15, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> > Totally not a Garbs dupe. No sir.


Oh please Garbs’ Gil wank is on another level


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 15, 2017)

Sure Gar... i mean...totally new member that has totally nothing to do with him or his style of "debating"


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## ChaosTheory123 (Dec 15, 2017)

Kurou said:


> im pretty sure if you gave me a gun it'd be in my capacity to beat Mike Tyson



Kurou

You're more likely to shoot yourself than you would be to shoot Tyson, so your capacity to beat Tyson remains about the same armed or unarmed

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Kurou (Dec 15, 2017)

You're free to test my competency. Wanna be a practice dummy?


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## ChaosTheory123 (Dec 15, 2017)

Sure, I just need to stand still as moving around is more likely to end with me getting hit over anything else


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## 2Bid (Dec 15, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Sure Gar... i mean...totally new member that has totally nothing to do with him or his style of "debating"


Sure, you’re free to think what you want. Wasn’t really a debate I guess, the two guys who replied to me essentially agreed with my point anyway.


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 15, 2017)

2Bid said:


> Sure, you’re free to think what you want. Wasn’t really a debate I guess, the two guys who replied to me essentially agreed with my point anyway.


Is that how you saw it ?  Because people were like 2 seconds away from telling you to fuck off.
After this comment, the 0,00001% of doubt that i had regarding you being Garbs has vanished.

Welcome back to the OBD Garbs. Looking forward to you leaving again.


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## 2Bid (Dec 15, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Is that how you saw it ?  Because people were like 2 seconds away from telling you to fuck off.
> After this comment, the 0,00001% of doubt that i had regarding you being Garbs has vanished.
> 
> Welcome back to the OBD Garbs. Looking forward to you leaving again.


It’s not how I saw it, it’s a fact. They said it themselves, that she’s just below the tops. Below the tops meaning she isn’t THAT strong. THAT = is referring to Gil tier. Because I see some people believing she’s in that tier. Same way some people say Ea can bust a planet when it’s not THAT strong.

Yeah it’s fine, like I said you’re free to believe what you want.


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 15, 2017)

2Bid said:


> Below the tops meaning she isn’t THAT strong


DO you realize how retarded that sounds considering the fact that she's stronger than at least 85 % of all other servants ?  I would say THAT is pretty strong considering how many servants are in the series.

That's like saying a silver medalist at the Olympics isn't THAT good at what he does simply because there's a gold  medalist...


2Bid said:


> say Ea can bust a planet when it’s not THAT strong


Our Wiki disagrees with you. So suck it.


2Bid said:


> Yeah it’s fine, like I said you’re free to believe what you want


It's not a beleif anymore at this point.


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## Sablés (Dec 15, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> DO you realize how retarded that sounds considering the fact that she's stronger than at least 85 % of all other servants ? I would say THAT is pretty strong considering how many servants are in the series.


He means Altera isn't equal to Gilgamesh or Karna, not that she isn't one of the strongest HS.

Whether or not that's true can be debated, since tiers can be broad depending on who's making em.


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 15, 2017)

Sablés said:


> He means Altera isn't equal to Gilgamesh or Karna, not that she isn't one of the strongest HS.
> 
> Whether or not that's true can be debated, since tiers can be broad depending on who's making em.


Whatever, he makes it sound like there's this HUGE discrepancy between Gill tier and the tier immediately below that and that  if you're not Gill tier ,then you're not really hot shit. The way he emphasizes the whole thing smells of downplay or wank depending on the perspective .

Reactions: Agree 1


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 15, 2017)

Titan Altera smashes Gil and Babylon, so its okay


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 15, 2017)

And UMU Venus saves the day .
That perfection


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 15, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> And UMU Venus saves the day .
> That perfection


UMU Venus might actually be below Titan Altera at full strength which is hilarious in hindsight


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## 2Bid (Dec 15, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> DO you realize how retarded that sounds considering the fact that she's stronger than at least 85 % of all other servants ?  I would say THAT is pretty strong considering how many servants are in the series.
> 
> That's like saying a silver medalist at the Olympics isn't THAT good at what he does simply because there's a gold  medalist...
> 
> ...


That is due to your lack of reading comprehension. The “huge discrepency” between Gil tier and the tier below is entirely your own interpretation. The statement I stated implies that she may be strong, but is not at that certain level of power. No more, no less. She’s strong but not Gil/Karna Tier strong which some believe, which I state because in relation to a proper versus against Gil, it’s logical to assume he’d win.

You believe Ea can bust a planet? That’s pretty fucking laughable. Ea destroys the world not the planet, thus anti-world and not anti-planet. It hasn’t shown a feat that it can even come close to doing that.

The planet is covered in multiple layers with pillars of light holding these layers together. Ea works by unravelling these layers, thus revealing Earth in it’s primordial state. Any destruction caused to these layers is fixed afterwards. It doesn’t actually fucking bust a planet, stop wanking it.

Da Vinci has stated that no Noble Phantasm, even at full power can destroy the planet. Especially if you were born in that planet. The only Noble Phantasm that’s been stated to be capable of handling planetary threats is Excalibur.

Unless you’ve got sufficient evidence, then it’s your own belief. Stop playing yourself


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## Sablés (Dec 15, 2017)

2Bid said:


> Da Vinci has stated that no Noble Phantasm, even at full power can destroy the planet. Especially if you were born in that planet. The only Noble Phantasm that’s been stated to be capable of handling planetary threats is Excalibur.


The planet =/= A planet


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 15, 2017)

2Bid said:


> That is due to your lack of reading comprehension



Don't talk about comprehension. Your lack of self-awareness is funny but troublesome at the same time.


2Bid said:


> The “huge discrepency” between Gil tier and the tier below is entirely your own interpretation


Or you know , it could just be you trying to wank Gill and downplay Altera, like you usualy do.



2Bid said:


> thus anti-world and not anti-planet


The simple fact that you use this as an argument shows me how much knowledge and understanding you have about Fate in general which seems to be limited to "parotting what you see on wiki or shit without actually understanding it.
Why do i say this ?
Well, first of all you are contradicting yourself. You mentioned anti-planet NP's like they would actually have the power to destroy THE planet. Da Vinci says that even that isn't enough. This was mistake number one.

Your second mistake is taking the clasification  of NP  literaly in general.
Let's take RAmesseum as an example. It is classified as an Anti Fortress NP. That's funny since it stores inside it something that can produce solar flares that equate to continental lvl damage. So why is it not higher than that ?

Let's take another example. Arash's Stella which is classified as an anti-army NP even though we know form the description that it could  fuck up an entire country . So, why is it not classified as a anty-country lvl NP ?
There are numerous other examples that contradict the general clasification either  by functionality or by feats.

Moving on to another mistake you made. You mentioned Excalibur as the only weapon being able to deal with planetary threats and yet not even Excalibur is listed as an anti-planet or even as a anti-world NP.

Case and point. Your logic is shit.



2Bid said:


> You believe Ea can bust a planet? That’s pretty fucking laughable. Ea destroys the world not the planet, thus anti-world and not anti-planet. It hasn’t shown a feat that it can even come close to doing that.


I could bring up the naration from F/S/F that you are conviniently ignoring or the fact that even the Counter Force didn't  manage to stop it completely or hell, even the nature and abilities of EA itself but... common sense and facts don't work on you so i'm just gonna simplify it. Planetary EA is accepted here on this forum so no matter how much you bitch and moan about it  isn't gonna change that fact. So... cry more i guess.

You're just as much a joke as you always were Garbs.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Dec 16, 2017)

Like Gil couldn't lolstomp Altera or Karna if he fighted seriously


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 16, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Like Gil couldn't lolstomp Altera or Karna if he fighted seriously


If having to use Ea counts as a stomp, thats a pretty shitty standard


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Dec 16, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> If having to use Ea counts as a stomp, thats a pretty shitty standard



No, I mean "use precog, jump in vimana and blast them with A++ NP from every direction while you use Enkidu to hold them down, even if they don't have divinity.


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 16, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Enkidu to hold them down, even if they don't have divinity


That doesn't work .


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## Sablés (Dec 16, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Like Gil couldn't *lolstomp *Altera or Karna if he fighted seriously


you guys need to stop choosing extreme terms like this cuz its just wrong.



OneSimpleAnime said:


> If having to use Ea counts as a stomp, thats a pretty shitty standard


I don't know what he means by stomp but Ea is only necessary against Altera if he wants to brute force Photon Ray. We've seen them fight and Gilgamesh cornered her without Ea


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 16, 2017)

Sablés said:


> you guys need to stop choosing extreme terms like this cuz its just wrong.
> 
> 
> I don't know what he means by stomp but Ea is only necessary against Altera if he wants to brute force Photon Ray. We've seen them fight and Gilgamesh cornered her without Ea


She didnt have a master then so she wasnt operating at full strength. Her regular slashes punked Regalia Nero and Tamamo, theres no way casual GoB is above the Formal Wear.


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## John Wayne (Dec 16, 2017)

Gilgamesh can't lolstomp any of the highest tier servants, a fight with any of them would require actual effort up to being actually hard for the strongest.


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## Sablés (Dec 16, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> She didnt have a master then so she wasnt operating at full strength. Her regular slashes punked Regalia Nero and Tamamo, theres no way casual GoB is above the Formal Wear.



Altera had Hakuno as her master from the very start. S/he was always supplying her power, albeit unwillingly.

There's no way regular Gilgamesh is above formal wear either, so I'm inclined to believe Nero and Tamamo aren't all that strong, besides being top servant level.

As a side note, Altera is compared to Saber Alter twice in Grand Order. Once in Septem when Mashu remarks Photon Ray is comparable to Excalibur and in an interlude where Alter actually beats Altera in a contest of Noble Phantasms. Unless Altera  is stronger in the moon cell thanks to a direct connection to the titan, this is ???


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 16, 2017)

In other news, water is wet. Why is this thread still open ?


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## Qinglong (Dec 16, 2017)

this is some hoop reaching levels of logic


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Dec 16, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> That doesn't work



That's what he did in HA, Enkidu is a very durable chain even without it's conceptual effect.



Sablés said:


> like this cuz its just wrong



How would you call a fight where one of the fighters can just rip the other apart with a rain of swords whenever he feels like?

Gil is the strongest Servant aside from outliers like the Grands or the Tamamos.

Shirou and Saber where able to win because he's an idiot and UBW and Avalon are just that good of a counter to him.


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 16, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> hat's what he did in HA, Enkidu is a very durable chain even without it's conceptual effect.


Without the conceptual effect is just a fucking chain. That's why you don't see him using it on everything. What's a chain to a servant ?


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> How would you call a fight where one of the fighters can just rip the other apart with a rain of swords whenever he feels like?


The validity of this statement depends completely on his opponent. Fuckers with Protection from Arrows can more or less negate it so don't throw this argument away like that.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Gil is the strongest Servant aside from outliers like the Grands or the Tamamos.


Water is wet. Yes. The thing that elevates him to the rank of strongest servant however is EA and not everything else.
Also , Tamamo doesn't belong in this tier unless you take her Regalia version into account and even then..... You are probably thinking about Amaterasu but that's another thing entirely.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Dec 16, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Without the conceptual effect is just a fucking chain. That's why you don't see him using it on everything. What's a chain to a servant



Im telling you that's what he did the one time he fought seriously.



reyatsuguy said:


> The validity of this statement depends completely on his opponent. Fuckers with Protection from Arrows can more or less negate it so don't throw this argument away like that



Well he could have done that to Lancelot and Cu only lasted that long because Gilgamesh was playing around. Its a rain of NP with all kinds of effects, and he can surround people with GoB and shoot from every direction.



reyatsuguy said:


> Water is wet. Yes. The thing that elevates him to the rank of strongest servant however is EA and not everything else.
> Also , Tamamo doesn't belong in this tier unless you take her Regalia version into account and even then..... You are probably thinking about Amaterasu but that's another thing entirely



Amateratsu,Tamamo, is all the same.

He is the strongest because of EA but even without that there's almost no servant that can handle GoB.

He can counter everyone by using a NP they are weak against while also just casually usind dozens of attacks that would be the trump card of a high class servant.


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## Kurou (Dec 16, 2017)

talk about reaching


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 16, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Im telling you that's what he did the one time he fought seriously.


And i'm telling you Enkidu is just a chain against someone without divinity.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Well he could have done that to Lancelot and Cu only lasted that long because Gilgamesh was playing around. Its a rain of NP with all kinds of effects, and he can surround people with GoB and shoot from every direction.


No, GOB's spam uses the weapons stored inside it as bullets. While they are spammed the weapons's effects are wasted.
Also, it doesn't matter if Gill was playing around or not since CU's skill has the ability to  protectet him from them regardless.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Amateratsu,Tamamo, is all the same.


It's really not the same. They aren't even the same kind of beings. Amaterasu is a god so the discussion about her being tiered to servants becomes automatically pointless.


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## Sablés (Dec 16, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Amateratsu,Tamamo, is all the same.


The same but completely different

K


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## rborges01 (Dec 16, 2017)

Karna has rank A divinity and Gilgamesh has Enkidu so it's not much of a fight unless you restrict Enkidu from Gil.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Dec 16, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> And i'm telling you Enkidu is just a chain against someone without divinity



Water is wet 



reyatsuguy said:


> No, GOB's spam uses the weapons stored inside it as bullets. While they are spammed the weapons's effects are wasted.
> Also, it doesn't matter if Gill was playing around or not since CU's skill has the ability to be protected from them regardless



Im not sure if he can use them all while he shoots them but he has used special abilities mid fight before.

The point of him being playing around is that when he got bored he killed Cu wit ease.



Sablés said:


> The same but completely different



It's just big Tamamo.

Same as Nero is just red Arturia.


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 16, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Water is wet


Subtle.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Im not sure if he can use them all while he shoots them but he has used special abilities mid fight before.


Like ?


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> The point of him being playing around is that when he got bored he killed Cu wit ease.


You just pulled that out of your ass. You do that a lot.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> It's just big Tamamo


Good lord .....  we're done here.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Dec 16, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Like ?



I think he used weapons that change direction after being shot and a sword that creates ice, then something like Diarmuid lance.

It was either vs Saber or vs Berserker.

Anyway, the reason he has an advantage over the other Servants is for being capable of casually pulling their weakness from GoB.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Dec 16, 2017)

Shut the fuck up holy shit

Reactions: Agree 2


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 16, 2017)

He blatantly copy pasted the wikipedia. I checked. He didn't even change a word.
Another Garbs-tier poster.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 16, 2017)

Sablés said:


> Altera had Hakuno as her master from the very start. S/he was always supplying her power, albeit unwillingly.
> 
> There's no way regular Gilgamesh is above formal wear either, so I'm inclined to believe Nero and Tamamo aren't all that strong, besides being top servant level.
> 
> As a side note, Altera is compared to Saber Alter twice in Grand Order. Once in Septem when Mashu remarks Photon Ray is comparable to Excalibur and in an interlude where Alter actually beats Altera in a contest of Noble Phantasms. Unless Altera  is stronger in the moon cell thanks to a direct connection to the titan, this is ???


Servent Altera is limited by her Saint Graph, even at max ascension she still says its not her full strength. Moon Cell Altera has a body made directly by Titan Altera so it should be way superior.

If we take each Regalia being 1/3 of BB's power (which it should be since she had the same thing, only not split into 3 parts) thats pretty fucking strong. Getting mana straight from the moon cell and having authority over 1/3rd of it is definitely top tier shit


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 16, 2017)

Sablés said:


> Altera had Hakuno as her master from the very start. S/he was always supplying her power, albeit unwillingly.
> 
> There's no way regular Gilgamesh is above formal wear either, so I'm inclined to believe Nero and Tamamo aren't all that strong, besides being top servant level.
> 
> As a side note, Altera is compared to Saber Alter twice in Grand Order. Once in Septem when Mashu remarks Photon Ray is comparable to Excalibur and in an interlude where Alter actually beats Altera in a contest of Noble Phantasms. Unless Altera  is stronger in the moon cell thanks to a direct connection to the titan, this is ???


Hakuno wasnt giving her mana till Gil shot her with GoB, then he used a code cast and started acting as her actual master


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## Sablés (Dec 16, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Servent Altera is limited by her Saint Graph, even at max ascension she still says its not her full strength. Moon Cell Altera has a body made directly by Titan Altera so it should be way superior.


Good enough for me. I'd been wondering about that for a while.



OneSimpleAnime said:


> Hakuno wasnt giving her mana till Gil shot her with GoB, then he used a code cast and started acting as her actual master


Hakuno was always giving her mana. He was linked to her the moment they forged a command seal and he handed over the regalia. The code cast was the only aid he gave Altera.


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## Qinglong (Dec 16, 2017)

Even in Salomon Altera notes her Saint Graph can't fully handle Teardrop Photon Ray.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 16, 2017)

And in the moon cell she just uses it like its no big deal, Servent Altera just cant conpete with the original


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## Qinglong (Dec 16, 2017)

Moon Altera is directly connected to Titan altera so obviously she'd have a greater Saint Graph. But the fact she can perform it at all still means Earth Altera is in the same general range.


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## 2Bid (Dec 16, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Don't talk about comprehension. Your lack of self-awareness is funny but troublesome at the same time.
> 
> Or you know , it could just be you trying to wank Gill and downplay Altera, like you usualy do.
> 
> ...


You’re limited knowledge shows in your complete shit of an argument.

First off, there is no contradiction. That’s your first mistake as well. The fact that it’s anti-world only reinforces how Ea works; it destroys the reality of the world. It destroys the world not the planet. If being even anti-planet means it can’t bust a planet, what moreso an anti-world NP that specifically works by destroying the fabric of the world?

Again, improve your reading comprehension you dumb fuck. I stated that Excalibur so far is the only one stated to be specifically made and used against planetary threats like Sefar.

You’re absolutely hilarious. Don’t talk about contradictions when you just contradicted yourself. You bitch about how “numerous other examples that contradict the general clasification either  by functionality or by feats“ then you proceed to bitch about how Excalibur isn’t even listed as an anti-world or anti-planet NP Lmao

There are restrictions and limiters placed on Excalibur. As the Last Phantasm created by the planet, it was made to combat planetary theats like Sefar. It’s anti-army because it’s the standard version you dumb fuck.

God damn, you’re really fucking stupid if you believe Strange Fake’s flowery narration. As I said, the planet itself fixes any damage on it’s layers caused by weapons like Ea.

The Counter Force don’t need to stop Ea in the first place because: one, it isn’t powerful enough to destroy the planet in the first place and two, the planet itself restricts those born on it from destroying the planet. So there was even less of a reason for the Counter Force to take action during Strange Fake.

Congrats on making a joke of youself.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Dec 16, 2017)

Shut up GARBS

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## 2Bid (Dec 16, 2017)

Yeah Gtfo loser


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 16, 2017)

Qinglong said:


> Moon Altera is directly connected to Titan altera so obviously she'd have a greater Saint Graph. But the fact she can perform it at all still means Earth Altera is in the same general range.


If regular Photon Ray can match Excalibur when its used by Servent Altera, no wonder shes probably top of the Saber class.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Dec 17, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> He blatantly copy pasted the wikipedia. I checked. He didn't even change a word.
> Another Garbs-tier poster.



So what?

Point is he can do it.




GiveRobert20dollars said:


> Shut the fuck up holy shit



Why?

Is you the ones that believe Altera o Karna are worth something against Gilgamesh because he doesn't have EA.

That's just fucking stupid.


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 17, 2017)

2Bid said:


> You’re limited knowledge shows in your complete shit of an argument.


> That projection.


2Bid said:


> If being even anti-planet means it can’t bust a planet, what moreso an anti-world NP that specifically works by destroying the fabric of the world?


It can't bust THE planet you shithead. Because THE planet has additional defenses as opposed to a normal planet from fiction.


2Bid said:


> Again, improve your reading comprehension you dumb fuck. I stated that Excalibur so far is the only one stated to be specifically made and used against planetary threats like Sefar


And yet this argument is directly butting against your clasification argument.


2Bid said:


> You’re absolutely hilarious. Don’t talk about contradictions when you just contradicted yourself. You bitch about how “numerous other examples that contradict the general clasification either by functionality or by feats“ then you proceed to bitch about how Excalibur isn’t even listed as an anti-world or anti-planet NP Lmao


There is no contradiction here . Maybe you should pick up a dictionary to see what a contradiction is.


2Bid said:


> There are restrictions and limiters placed on Excalibur. As the Last Phantasm created by the planet, it was made to combat planetary theats like Sefar. It’s anti-army because it’s the standard version you dumb fuck.


That doesn't refute what i said in the slightest.


2Bid said:


> The Counter Force don’t need to stop Ea in the first place because: one, it isn’t powerful enough to destroy the planet in the first place and two, the planet itself restricts those born on it from destroying the planet. So there was even less of a reason for the Counter Force to take action during Strange Fake.


And yet Enkidu tapped into it and manifested it in order to block EE, which it couldn't do completely.


2Bid said:


> Congrats on making a joke of youself


The only joke here is you. And you're not a good one.

Let me reinstate the bottom line. EE is planetary on this forum. That means that it is accepted  by  its members.
You can do mental gymnastics all want and throw your shitty tantrums how you want. It won't change the fact .

Now, fuck off, i'm tired of talking to you.


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 17, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Why?
> 
> Is you the ones that believe Altera o Karna are worth something against Gilgamesh because he doesn't have EA.
> 
> That's just fucking stupid


This came from the wiki too ? Or did you manage to form that thought yourself ?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Dec 17, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> This came from the wiki too ? Or did you manage to form that thought yourself ?



I could have never read the original novels and just use the wiki, and I would still be right.

You should read the wiki to not make mistakes like thinking Gilgamesh needs EA to win any of this fights.

Reactions: Optimistic 1 | Dislike 1


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 17, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> I could have never read the original novels and just use the wiki, and I would still be right.
> 
> You should read the wiki to not make mistakes like thinking Gilgamesh needs EA to win any of this fights.


Instead, why don't you actually read them and realize that the wiki is a shit source ? Oh and why don't you actually make a list of the fights Gill didn't win without Ea, you secondary scrub ?


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## Jackalinthebox (Dec 17, 2017)

I'm hardly a Nasu expert, but saying Gil can lolstomp Altera & Karna is just plain asinine


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## Qinglong (Dec 17, 2017)

HFS stop fucking posting if you don't know the source material and are just regurgitating shit from a questionable source

I hate you and everyone like you


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Dec 17, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Instead, why don't you actually read them and realize that the wiki is a shit source ? Oh and why don't you actually make a list of the fights Gill didn't win without Ea, you secondary scrub ?



I did read them, I just have bad memory for names and the likes.

Like this thing:
"The Omniscient and Omnipotent Star"
Rank: EX　　Type: Anti-Unit Noble Phantasm
Sha Naqba Imuru.
The mentality of the King of Heroes - which spread across all corners of the world as if the brilliance of the stars, seeing through all creation - sublimated into a Noble Phantasm.
A continuously invoked-type Noble Phantasm. In regards to this work, the only Noble Phantasm he performs the release of True Name is "The Treasury of the King".

Now take that into account with the 360° NP Spam, the different effects of the NP, and stuff like vimana or Light Ship.


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 17, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Like this thing:
> "The Omniscient and Omnipotent Star"
> Rank: EX　　Type: Anti-Unit Noble Phantasm
> Sha Naqba Imuru.
> ...


Yeah, thanks for the regurgitated info. What's funny is the fact that you intentionally didn't link the part where it states that Gil keeps it intentionally surpressed.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Now take that into account with the 360° NP Spam, the different effects of the NP, and stuff like vimana or Light Ship.


I take everything into account unlike you who only like to look at Gil's shiny golden schlong. What you don't take into account is the other's people abilities and Gil's character which fucks him over.
Can he win his fights without Ea ? Sure . Can he also eat a VS for example and eat the dust ? Sure.
But the wank is stronk with Gillgamesh  and the thread is done . I'm tired of talking with people like you or > totally not GARBS.
I'm out.


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## Sablés (Dec 17, 2017)

What the fuck am I reading?


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## Sablés (Dec 17, 2017)

Why was Vimana even fucking mentioned when Karna can fly?


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Dec 17, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Yeah, thanks for the regurgitated info. What's funny is the fact that you intentionally didn't link the part where it states that Gil keeps it intentionally surpressed.



We are talking serious Gil.



reyatsuguy said:


> I take everything into account unlike you who only like to look at Gil's shiny golden schlong. What you don't take into account is the other's people abilities and Gil's character which fucks him over.
> Can he win his fights without Ea ? Sure . Can he also eat a VS for example and eat the dust ? Sure.
> But the wank is stronk with Gillgamesh and the thread is done . I'm tired of talking with people like you or > totally not GARBS.
> I'm out.



Why don't you explain how Karna is going to deal with GoB?


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 17, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> We are talking serious Gil


No, we're not. This fight is IC, and serious Gill is more prone than not to go for Ea so that's moot either way.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Why don't you explain how Karna is going to deal with GoB?


Benefiet from that beautifull 90% damage reduction and using any of his NP's to blast Gil if he's fucking around.
Gil even states that he needs to not fuck around to beat Karna so.. idk what you find so unbelievable about this.

And it's not like Karna is the only one who poses a threat to Gil.
If you would have read shit , you would know that  Enkidu and Ozymandias are other foes that can give Gil a run for his money, especially without Ea. But to quote a buddy of mine, " Wank always finds a way".


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Dec 17, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> No, we're not. This fight is IC, and serious Gill is more prone than not to go for Ea so that's moot either way.



I was so I assumed people that disagreed with me was also talking about serious Gilgamesh.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Like Gil couldn't lolstomp Altera or Karna if he fighted seriously





reyatsuguy said:


> Benefiet from that beautifull 90% damage reduction and using any of his NP's to blast Gil if he's fucking around.



10% damage from a few hundreds of A rank attack will cause severe damage, and he needs to get rid of the armor to use his best attack.

He will basically be stuck in place trying to block as much as posible.


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 17, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> I was so I assumed people that disagreed with me was also talking about serious Gilgamesh


Serious Gilgamesh will most likely go for Ea like i said so it dosen't really matter.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> 10% damage from a few hundreds of A rank attack will cause severe damage, and he needs to get rid of the armor to use his best attack.


Dude, it's 90 %, not 50 %, besides he has A+ luck so a saving throw against a potentially damaging attack is not imposible.
Loosing his armor is kinda moot at the point where he uses VS. If VS is fired and Gill doesn't have Ea puled out to counter it ..it would be bad for Gil.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> He will basically be stuck in place trying to block as much as posible.


A+ agility + flying + mana burst  so not really.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Dec 17, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Serious Gilgamesh will most likely go for Ea like i said so it dosen't really matter.



In this case it is a scenario where he can't for whatever reason, it's not like he is just going to let himself get killed for not having it.



reyatsuguy said:


> Dude, it's 90 %, not 50 %, besides he has A+ luck so a saving throw against a potentially damaging attack is not imposible.
> Loosing his armor is kinda moot at the point where he uses VS. If VS is fired and Gill doesn't have Ea puled out to counter it ..it would be bad for Gil.



I think Karna wouldn't get the opportunity of using VS because of the sheer number of attacks coming his way, but even if he could Gilgamesh has his flying ship and all kinds of defensive NP, he could have prototypes for Kosmos and Aias for example.




reyatsuguy said:


> A+ agility + flying + mana burst so not really.



In Fate Route one swords spam corners Saber, the second one destroys her armor and does heavy damage, in UBW Berserker can't get close to him and each hit of the sword axe gets countered, in Zero Lancelot was going to 100% die to just 32 NP after barely handling 16.

But he can just shoot hundreds or thousands in a few seconds from every direction, and the portals can be opened anywhere so it's not like Karna can just outrun them or try and predict the attack patterns.

A+ and flying aren't enough.


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 17, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> In this case it is a scenario where he can't for whatever reason, it's not like he is just going to let himself get killed for not having it.


No, it's either IC Gil where he won't use it because he likes to fuck around or Bloodlusted Gil where he Ea your ass. There's no reason for other made up scenarios and even if there is such a scenario there's a posibility he will loose even with all the wank he has.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> I think Karna wouldn't get the opportunity of using VS because of the sheer number of attacks coming his way, but even if he could Gilgamesh has his flying ship and all kinds of defensive NP, he could have prototypes for Kosmos and Aias for example.


1. We are limited to only what he has shows as per rules .
2. Gilgamesh doesn't know how to use a lot of shit in his armory.
3. Carna can fly too.
4. Gil is not dodging VS or resisting it.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> In Fate Route one swords spam corners Saber, the second one destroys her armor and does heavy damage, in UBW Berserker can't get close to him and each hit of the sword axe gets countered, in Zero Lancelot was going to 100% die to just 32 NP after barely handling 16.


All those guys don't have a  90% damage reduction armor + mana burst  combination + aoe attacks that can act as barriers


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> But he can just shoot hundreds or thousands in a few seconds from every direction, and the portals can be opened anywhere so it's not like Karna can just outrun them or try and predict the attack patterns.


He doesn't need to. Also watch /readKarna vs Vlad to see how Karna deals with shit like that.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> A+ and flying aren't enough.


Yeah yeah, sure.
Again Gilgamesh has stated that he can't afford to fuck around against Karna.
This fight can go either way.
Let's just drop it cause i'm tired of this argument.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Dec 17, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> 1. We are limited to only what he has shows as per rules .
> 2. Gilgamesh doesn't know how to use a lot of shit in his armory.
> 3. Carna can fly too.
> 4. Gil is not dodging VS or resisting it.



He has the prototypes of every NP aside from stuff like Excalibur or God Hand, he isn't lacking in defensive measures, at least Aias should be in the GoB. Kosmos might be or not, being a Divine Construct.

Precognition and the ship NP also make it likely to dodge VS, if he doesn't just skewers Karna before he can use it.




reyatsuguy said:


> All those guys don't have a 90% damage reduction armor + mana burst combination + aoe attacks.



Those characters are about as good as it gets in terms of skill and stats but still where easily overwhelmed. 90% reduction just adds survivavility but it doesn't help to not get hit by 50+ swords.



reyatsuguy said:


> He doesn't need to. Also watch /readKarna vs Vlad to see how Karna deals with shit like that.



What Vlad did was inferior to GoB in every sense and it still was an annoyance for Karna.



reyatsuguy said:


> Yeah yeah, sure.
> Again Gilgamesh has stated that he can't afford to fuck around against Karna.
> This fight can go either way.
> Let's just drop it cause i'm tired of this argument.



Ok


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 17, 2017)

That fucking downplay...


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> He has the prototypes of every NP aside from stuff like Excalibur or God Hand, he isn't lacking in defensive measures, at least Aias should be in the GoB. Kosmos might be or not, being a Divine Construct.


Would you fucking stop explaining  this  shit to me ? I know what shit Gil has inside GOB. My point was that he is limited to what he has shown as per forum rules and that you don't know if Gil knows how to use it in the first place.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Those characters are about as good as it gets in terms of skill and stats but still where easily overwhelmed. 90% reduction just adds survivavility but it doesn't help to not get hit by 50+ swords.


No you don't fucking understand. The fucking armor reduces EVEN the damage he recieves to 90%, reducing serious wounds to fucking scratches. He can cerrtainly afford to get hit , not that he will since he can fucking light himself on fire and burn shit before it hits him or realease aoe flames .
He got fucking skewered by Vlad and that didn't hinder him in the slightest.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> What Vlad did was inferior to GoB in every sense and it still was an annoyance for Karna.


That wasn't the point genius. Kaziki Bey is similar to GOB in the sense that it could aslo attack from all directions and even more than GOB can do, it could also skewer Karna from the  inside. Karna shrugged all that shit off without problem.

I know you are convinced that Gil wins but stop with the shity downplay already.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Dec 17, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Would you fucking stop explaining this shit to me ? I know what shit Gil has inside GOB. My point was that he is limited to what he has shown as per forum rules and that you don't know if Gil knows how to use it in the first place.



If you know how it works don't make me explain it, he has a very good knowledge of what he has in the vault, at least to the point of knowing how to deal with whatever Servant he could be fighting at the moment.



reyatsuguy said:


> No you don't fucking understand. The fucking armor reduces EVEN the damage he recieves to 90%, reducing serious wounds to fucking scratches. He can cerrtainly afford to get hit , not that he will since he can fucking light himself on fire and burn shit before it hits him or realease aoe flames .



What you don't understand is how powerful those attacks are, he can't just facetank too many of them even at 90% reduction nor burn them all because they are extremely durable as well.

ffs he could just use Enkidu and that's as far as Karna goes.



reyatsuguy said:


> That wasn't the point genius. Kaziki Bey is similar to GOB in the sense that it could aslo attack from all directions and even more than GOB can do, it could also skewer Karna from the inside. Karna shrugged all that shit off without problem.
> 
> I know you are convinced that Gil wins but stop with the shity downplay already.



Is similar in one aspect but inferior in every sense from the power of each stake or bullet to their durability and the angles it can cover, and versatility of use.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Qinglong (Dec 17, 2017)

Just

fucking


stop


you don't know what you're talking about

and I feel like tearing my eyes out


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 17, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> If you know how it works don't make me explain it, he has a very good knowledge of what he has in the vault, at least to the point of knowing how to deal with whatever Servant he could be fighting at the moment.


Ok, now you're just ignoring shit and acting like a fucking retard. Show me Gil using Aias or Kosmos or shut the fuck up.


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> What you don't understand is how powerful those attacks are, he can't just facetank too many of them even at 90% reduction nor burn them all because they are extremely durable as well.


No, you're the one who doesn't understand shit because you just read the wiki and are like " Uhh..that sounds stronk....better use it as a fucking argument
You can't even comprehend how fucking damage reduction works...


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Is similar in one aspect but inferior in every sense from the power of each stake or bullet to their durability


Who the fuck said anything about power ?


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> and the angles it can cove


He can make them fly and direct them in flight.

Just fuck off already. I could stomach you wanking Gil, but i have no patience for retarded downplay and basic lack of understanding shit.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 17, 2017)

He wouldnt have Kosmos cause its a God forged thing, plus he probably wouldnt be able to use it either.


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 17, 2017)

I have never seen someone downplaying Karna like this. And this covers other forums like SB or VSB....
Not even Garbs or his dupe account are this bad..like holly shit...


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Dec 17, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Ok, now you're just ignoring shit and acting like a fucking retard. Show me Gil using Aias or Kosmos or shut the fuck up.



He hasn't but could if he needed to.



reyatsuguy said:


> No, you're the one who doesn't understand shit because you just read the wiki and are like " Uhh..that sounds stronk....better use it as a fucking argument
> You can't even comprehend how fucking damage reduction works...



What you don't understand is how much power the 10% of an A level NP can have.



reyatsuguy said:


> Who the fuck said anything about power ?



lmao

If 10% of the power of those stakes already can do any damage to Karna, A class NP will do significantly more damage

You think he can burn them with prana burst right? Or what?




reyatsuguy said:


> He can make them fly and direct them in flight.
> 
> Just fuck off already. I could stomach you wanking Gil, but i have no patience for retarded downplay and basic lack of understanding shit.



That's anime original but even then, those are normal stakes, inferior in every way to a Noble Phantasm spam.

Do you even understand that?

Do you understand that Enkidu means game over?

Because seriously, your argument is basically "im sure Karna can handle GoB because he did so with a NP that is far shitier but that also has many attacks"

He simply can't do shit because he is vulnerable to Enkidu, is too fucking slow and his fire is too weak, he gets lolstomped and you can disagree but that's just you being a moron.

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Dec 17, 2017)

>Fire is too weak
>His mana burst has deflected Balmung and helped him resist it along with his armor

Shut the fuck up

Reactions: Agree 2


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 17, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> He hasn't but could if he needed to.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Everyone here is telling you to shut up and i'm the moron ?
Go suck some more of that golden cock.
Also, next time you shamelessly plagiarize shit  , at least have the courtesy to use quotations.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Dec 17, 2017)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> >Fire is too weak
> >His mana burst has deflected Balmung and helped him resist it* along with his armor*
> 
> Shut the fuck up



Sure.



reyatsuguy said:


> Everyone here is telling you to shut up and i'm the moron ?



Yes, because what you are saying doesn't make any sense and what most people think is irrelevant anyway.



reyatsuguy said:


> Go suck some more of that golden cock.
> Also, next time you shamelessly plagiarize shit , at least have the courtesy to use quotations.



All I see is your desire for Karna's spear mate.

Anyway stop being a retard already.

Reactions: Disagree 2


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 17, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> most people think is irrelevant anyway.


Oh so you're that thype of retard huh ?
" I'm right and everyone's wrong ? 
Pathethic


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> All I see is your desire for Karna's spear mate.
> 
> Anyway stop being a retard already.


Is that all you gathered from this ? 
Not once i have said that Karna is definetely winning this fight. I said that it could go both ways. Of course you have your ass so far in Gil's ass that you can't tell the difference.
But that's all i can expect from someone who parots the wiki and can't form an original well structured thought for himself and who knows jackshit about Fate in general.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Dec 17, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Oh so you're that thype of retard huh ?
> " I'm right and everyone's wrong ?
> Pathethic



Im right and two or three people are wrong 



reyatsuguy said:


> Is that all you gathered from this ?
> Not once i have said that Karna is definetely winning this fight. I said that it could go both ways. Of course you have your ass so far in Gil's ass that you can't tell the difference.
> But that's all i can expect from someone who parots the wiki and can't form an original well structured thought for himself and who knows jackshit about Fate in general.



You didn't answer about Enkidu, the precog, the light ship, the different NP skills, or how he is going to deal with a 360° NP spam.

Agility A+= Has never been useful against swords spam
He can fly= So does Gilgamesh 
He burns the things with his fire= High level swords, not regular spikes.
Vasavi Shakti=loose the armor and only can be used once
Kavacha and Kundala=still takes 10% damage
A rank Bramastras= Gilgamesh has NP that are comparable to sealed Excalibur 

I know you aren't saying he is going to win, but to believe this is a 50/50 fight Karna should have some advantage or reliable way of countering Gilgamesh that isn't tanking shit.

But i'm the problem with this thread, yeah right


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Dec 17, 2017)

You're the problem because you're fucking retarded and wrong yes

Reactions: Like 1


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Dec 17, 2017)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> You're the problem because you're fucking retarded and wrong yes



And you are bitching all the time, isn't that a problem?


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## Qinglong (Dec 17, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Im right and two or three people are wrong
> 
> 
> 
> ...



do you even read the shit you regurgitate

of course you fucking don't or you'd realize how much of your bullshit is irrelevant

shut the fuck up already

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 17, 2017)

I did actually answer for most of those things but you close your eyes, cover your ears and don't want to accept it or dismiss it via " Oh he did all of this ? Fuck you, here's what the wiki says about Gil friend".
So yeah... you are the problem of this thread.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Dec 17, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> I did actually answer for most of those things but you close your eyes, cover your ears and don't want to accept it or dismiss it via " Oh he did all of this ? Fuck you, here's what the wiki says about Gil friend".
> So yeah... you are the problem of this thread.



Ok, how does he deal with Enkidu again?


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## Qinglong (Dec 17, 2017)

You know you can break it if you're strong enough right


You'd know this if you read the VN


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 17, 2017)

1. He deals wit Gil before he uses Enkidu
2.His luck materializes in a saving throw and proceeds to blast down his ass if they fight inside the Mooncell.
3. Enkidu can actually be broken as seen when Herk did it.
Take your pick.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Dec 18, 2017)

So basically hope for a miracle, ok cool.


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 18, 2017)

> Miracle
>In Fate
> Because the wiki says it's a miracle.

Shut the fuck up already. You proved time and time again that you don't know what you're talking about.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Dec 18, 2017)

The novel itself said that what Heracles did should have been impossible, the command seal teleportation failed too, and it still held him long enough to be hit by 22 A rank NP, even if that hadn't happened he would just have been tied again since Enkidu could still be used.

I mean, just because Heracles with mad enhancement and rage boost can do something it doesn't mean Karna can do it too.


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 18, 2017)

Again you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Herk's strenght parameter is A +. Karna 's is B but he can amp that with mana burst. In FGO he overpowered Arjuna who had A strenght with aditional power boost from his own mana burst.
Karna overall is > Berserker Herk but no matter what , it seems you won't stop until you throw in my face every single stock argument the wiki feeds you.

SHUT UP !


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 18, 2017)

Karna would blow his ass away with VS. If Caliburn can take 7 lives then VS might just outright kill him


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 18, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Being overall stronger than Berserk isn't the same as being physically stronger and this faulty comparison is laughable.


> laughable
>ignoring a direct feat
> Ignoring how power scalling works
> You calling something laughable.
You officialy have gone full retard. Never go full retard.
> You probably don't know who Arjuna is in the first place. Quick , to the wiki !


lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Im not the one that said that Karna can handle GoB because he has A+ agility and that he would do the same he did vs Vlad's NP.


> Gr8 b8 mate.

i really should follow the example of the others and just ignore you untill this thread gets closed.
Yep, definetly should.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Dec 18, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> > laughable
> >ignoring a direct feat
> > Ignoring how power scalling works
> > You calling something laughable.
> ...



Do you really not get that Arjuna having A rank or prana burst doesn't mean that any of them have a greater physical strength than Berserker and that you can't claim such a thing without a direct link between them?

Im not even sure if Karna or Arjuna use Prana Burst in the same way that Saber does. Can you give me a source for that?

Powerscalling doesn't work this way, specially between Servants that are defined by their Noble Phantasm, at example you can understand would be Haschwalth not having the same physical strength as Zaraki in Shikai just because he is in a higher tier.



reyatsuguy said:


> > Gr8 b8 mate.
> 
> i really should follow the example of the others and just ignore you untill this thread gets closed.
> Yep, definetly should.



You should read the light novels.


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## TYPE-Rey (Dec 18, 2017)

> 3 paragraphs
> 3 MAJOR mistakes.
> Parots the wiki
>tells me to read.

Yare Yare...Why the fuck did i take you seriously in the first place...


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 18, 2017)

Kazikli Bey has more stakes than GoB fires. It can literally make over a thousand at once if he wants it to. 

Karna's Prana Burst and physical strength are strong enough to bypass AoF which blocks B to B+ shit so he will do just fine against GoB.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Dec 18, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Kazikli Bey has more stakes than GoB fires. It can literally make over a thousand at once if he wants it to.



Yeah but they are normal stakes, GoB shoots the originals of all the famous NP in the franchise, I can't imagine his fire burning stuff that is supposed to be more durable than Caliburn or Gae Bolg, or just tanking without issue 10% of the damage from something that can kill Berserker with one hit.



OneSimpleAnime said:


> Karna's Prana Burst and physical strength are strong enough to bypass AoF which blocks B to B+ shit so he will do just fine against GoB.



To deflect proyectiles and the like sure, but that was done with his weapon, to break out of Enkidu he would need physical strength like that of Heracles, that has an A+ rank in that stat and was also amped by a rage boost because he was furious at Gilgamesh blinding Illya.

The binding is strong enough to also block the command seal transportation effect for example.


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## Qinglong (Dec 18, 2017)

that has literally nothing to do with strength, stop bringing it up like you know what you're talking about

because you already admitted you don't

and someone put this thread out of its fucking misery please


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## The World (Dec 18, 2017)

>10 pages

so who wins?


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Dec 18, 2017)

It all adds to Karna not being able to do something just because Heracles could, this isn't Dragon Ball.


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## Qinglong (Dec 18, 2017)

literal word of god says you're wrong

now shut up and gtfo


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Dec 18, 2017)

Did Nasu said he can break out of Enkidu?

Or you mean Gilgamesh dialogue in SF or the video game stories.


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## shade0180 (Dec 19, 2017)

just going to post for the sake of posting.


Also this thread should be send to the landfill.

@KaiserWombat


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## Sumu (Dec 19, 2017)

Gil(with Ea)>Karna>=Gil(without Ea) 

It should honestly be as simple as that. 

Without Ea Gil is a very strong servant, but Ea is what pushes him over the top and makes him the strongest servant. 

Karna is top servant, one that Gil can’t afford to mess around with like other people have said. With he’s agility, luck, and armor combined I’m sure he can block/evade a barrage of GoB attacks enough so he can close the distance between him and Gil. Close combat doesn’t seems to be Gil’s strong suit so Karna gets the edge there. As for Enkidu yeah it’s a problem, however will they even get a hold of Karna with his agility and luck? If they do, it’s like what people have said, it is possible to break them.


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## KaiserWombat (Dec 19, 2017)

Seems this topic's been getting more than a little heated...

...let's cool our jets with a nice, breezy lock~

Also, in future reference: arguments in bad faith should definitely be addressed to a section mod way more quickly than past *7* pages of "discussion". I understand that I'm far from the most vigilant moderator on this site at present, but that doesn't absolve you from recognising a careening shipwreck and shooting out an SOS to alert me when it gets to the second or third page and there's zero signs of recognition or compliance to a legitimate discourse.


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