# Skaar vs Gohan



## Glued (Nov 11, 2010)

Skaar, Son of the Hulk vs Gohan.

Skaar- Born in lava as a baby
-Survived blazing infernos from numerous dragons
-Sealed a nuclear reactor with Old Strong power
-Use Old Strong Power to light his sword ablaze and cut through hundred ton monsters
-Summons gigantic boulders from the earth to hit his enemies
-Manipulates sand into blades to cut the Hulk
-Affected the Earth's lithosphere when drawing out power to battle World War Hulk
-Survived planetary re-entry on three different occasions 
-Survived being punched into the Stratosphere by his father.
-Easily threw aside Benjamin Grimm
-Can fly through space on a piece of rock
-Battled fist to fist with World War Hulk
-Nearly bought down a city with an Earthquake
-Casually causes Volcanoes to erupt
-Punched the Juggernaut into space
-Was finally beaten down and bludgeoned by the fists of World War Hulk


To make it fair, Skaar is not allowed to fly into space.


----------



## Riley (Nov 11, 2010)

Stop it 

It's been made apparent a dozen times that Hulk vs anyone from the Dragon Ball/Z is a bad idea. You're making the same mistake as what's his name with Gohan vs Hulk.


----------



## Reborns Allmark (Nov 11, 2010)

Ben Grimm said:


> -Easily threw aside Benjamin Grimm



Of course, Skaar can do that. Skaar's strength doesn't fluctuate as much as Hulk anyway.



> To make it fair, Skaar is not allowed to fly into space.



I didn't know Skaar could fly.
I thought Skaar can only that with the Silver Surfer's Surfboard.


----------



## Thor (Nov 11, 2010)

Gohan has this on the bag.


----------



## Captain America (Nov 11, 2010)

Gohan should take this.


----------



## thedecider (Nov 11, 2010)

Skaar can survive his moves and just like his dad (The Hulk) he would get stronger.


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Nov 11, 2010)

Ultimate Gohan is a multi-planet buster with likely large planet durabilty.

Gohan wins this with little difficulty.


----------



## Heavenly King (Nov 12, 2010)

i like how everyone is forgetting the old power that skaar has


----------



## skiboydoggy (Nov 12, 2010)

- Battled fist to fist with World War Hulk
- Punched the Juggernaut into space

...

Yeeeeeaaaaaah.


----------



## MisterShin (Nov 12, 2010)

Thor Odinson said:


> Gohan has this on the bag.





Captain America said:


> Gohan should take this.





Eternal Sleep said:


> Ultimate Gohan is a multi-planet buster with likely large planet durabilty.
> 
> Gohan wins this with little difficulty.



Me agree, Go Gohan!


----------



## Thor (Nov 12, 2010)

skiboydoggy said:


> - Battled fist to fist with World War Hulk


Who held back because Skaar was his son 



> - Punched the Juggernaut into space


Because Banner tricked Juggernaut and he used some old power shit while Juggernaut was in the air. Not a big deal for a class 100. Now if he punched Juggernaut into orbit while Juggs was in momentum it would be impressive.


----------



## Es (Nov 12, 2010)

Thor Odinson said:


> Who held back because Skaar was his son


How the fuck were either of them holding back when Hulk punched him into the earth's upper atmosphere and Skaar assaulted him with a trillion tons of kinetic force?


> Because Banner tricked Juggernaut and he used some old power shit while Juggernaut was in the air. Not a big deal for a class 100. Now if he punched Juggernaut into orbit while Juggs was in momentum it would be impressive.


How did Banner trick him in the fight between Skaar and Juggs? He just provoked him.


----------



## Shirō Kazami (Nov 12, 2010)

Eternal Sleep said:


> Ultimate Gohan is a multi-planet buster with *likely large planet durabilty*



That's why not even Buu can survive a planet busting blast without regen, right?


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (Nov 12, 2010)

Buu's durability is a weird subject though, considering he can get pierced by bullets (though he could have let that happen for shits and giggles) yet other DB heavy hitters couldn't literally punch through him


----------



## Captain America (Nov 12, 2010)

skiboydoggy said:


> - Battled fist to fist with World War Hulk
> - Punched the Juggernaut into space
> 
> ...
> ...



Gohan has range and more firepower than Skaar though.

I don't think Skaar can tank consisent planet busters.



Crimson Dragoon said:


> Buu's durability is a weird subject though, considering he can get pierced by bullets (though he could have let that happen for shits and giggles) yet other DB heavy hitters couldn't literally punch through him



Yeah, it is kinda wierd, but I think it's because he is a gumball man.

Gohan was strong enough to able to hurt Super Buu with his mere punches, which shows how strong Gohan is.


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 12, 2010)

> I don't think Skaar can tank consisent planet busters.



only has to tank one. Gohan doesn't have spacial survivability


----------



## Thor (Nov 12, 2010)

Es said:


> How the fuck were either of them holding back when Hulk punched him into the earth's upper atmosphere and Skaar assaulted him with a trillion tons of kinetic force?
> 
> How did Banner trick him in the fight between Skaar and Juggs? He just provoked him.



I didn't say Skaar held back. Hulk held back though. Hulk could have killed Skaar if he wanted.

Exactly Banner tricked Juggernaut. The best way to beat Juggs is to provoke him to do something stupid.


----------



## Es (Nov 12, 2010)

Thor Odinson said:


> I didn't say Skaar held back. Hulk held back though. Hulk could have killed Skaar if he wanted.


So when he got super pissesd at him and nearly punched him into space he was holding back?


----------



## Thor (Nov 12, 2010)

Es said:


> So when he got super pissesd at him and nearly punched him into space he was holding back?



The whole fight Hulk was having flashbacks of Bruce getting abused by his father. He didn't want to be like his father. He could have killed Skaar if he wanted to but he didn't acknowledged by Skaar.


----------



## Riley (Nov 12, 2010)

Skaar completely annihilates Gohan


----------



## Thor (Nov 12, 2010)

How can he hit something he can't touch?


----------



## Riley (Nov 12, 2010)

Thor Odinson said:


> How can he hit something he can't touch?



Better question: How can Gohan put down someone that is easily able to take down nearly every combatant in the Marvel universe? Hell, even be able to keep walking after taking a beating from someone who has the genetics of the hulk who was able to fight   "The Sentry" who has the power of a million exploding suns. Each time Gohan keeps beating down Skaar he's only making him more powerful. It's like thinking it's a smart idea to put your hand in the same cage as a scorpion. You'll only end up screwing yourself over. In the end it's going to turn into a one-sided match like it temporarily did for Yusuke when Toguro used 100% of his power. Seriously look at feats of his dad the Hulk. Gohan doesn't have any extraordinary feats that beat the Hulk's.


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 12, 2010)

Thor Odinson said:


> The whole fight Hulk was having flashbacks of Bruce getting abused by his father. He didn't want to be like his father. He could have killed Skaar if he wanted to but he didn't acknowledged by Skaar.



You're not telling the whole story. Skaar was going to kill the hulk but then he decided that he would not be uesd by bruce to do his dirty work, and decided to let the world breaker Hulk wail on him for a prolonged period of time.


----------



## Heavenly King (Nov 12, 2010)

what can gohan do to skaar?


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Nov 12, 2010)

Shoot concentrated planet busters at his face? He doesn't have to blow up the planet.

DBZ fighters are able to somehow concentrate thier attacks to make them stronger and have much less AOE.


----------



## Cooler (Nov 12, 2010)

Heavenly King said:


> what can gohan do to skaar?



He can fire planet busters at angles which won't strike the planet, this happend a few times in the Cell Saga. I don't know what Skaar's durability is like though...


----------



## Kinasin (Nov 12, 2010)

Gohan totally outclasses him in all categories scar get's god stomped and that's speaking lightly.


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 12, 2010)

Cooler said:


> He can fire planet busters at angles which won't strike the planet, this happend a few times in the Cell Saga. I don't know what Skaar's durability is like though...



He could use old power to redirect the blasts into the planet and then survive in space


----------



## Es (Nov 12, 2010)

Kinasin said:


> Gohan totally outclasses him in all categories scar get's god stomped and that's speaking lightly.


----------



## Thor (Nov 12, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> He could use old power to redirect the blasts into the planet and then survive in space



He's done that with energy now? 



Riley said:


> Better question: How can Gohan put down someone that is easily able to take down nearly every combatant in the Marvel universe? Hell, even be able to keep walking after taking a beating from someone who has the genetics of the hulk who was able to fight   "The Sentry" who has the power of a million exploding suns. Each time Gohan keeps beating down Skaar he's only making him more powerful. It's like thinking it's a smart idea to put your hand in the same cage as a scorpion. You'll only end up screwing yourself over. In the end it's going to turn into a one-sided match like it temporarily did for Yusuke when Toguro used 100% of his power. Seriously look at feats of his dad the Hulk. Gohan doesn't have any extraordinary feats that beat the Hulk's.



1. When did Skaar easily take down every combatant in the Marvel Universe? Where did you get this ignorant bullshit from?

2. Skaar is not Hulk. He doesn't have dynamic strength like Hulk

3. How is Skaar going to hit what he can't ever touch?

4. Sentry would destroy Skaar. Skaar is lucky Hulk is a loving father and didn't smash him into goo.


----------



## Soledad Eterna (Nov 12, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> only has to tank one. Gohan doesn't have spacial survivability



Only that the standard setting is in a place similar to the Time Chamber of DB, so Gohand doesn't need to bea able to breath in space.


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 13, 2010)

WTF is with all of these trolls? Skaar solos DBU effortlessly. A single OP blast or even just a finger flick would end this.


----------



## Foxve (Nov 13, 2010)

This depends on if Skaar can hit Gohan before he shoots multiple concentrated big planet+ busters at his face

I'd give it a 6/10.......


----------



## Thor (Nov 13, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> WTF is with all of these trolls? *Skaar solos DBU effortlessly. A single OP blast or even just a finger flick would end this*.



And the proof is...........? Embarrasing a hungry Galactus became unimpressive when people like the Wasp can survive against him.


----------



## Heavenly King (Nov 13, 2010)

Cooler said:


> He can fire planet busters at angles which won't strike the planet, this happend a few times in the Cell Saga. I don't know what Skaar's durability is like though...



op>>>>>>>>>>>>ki blast .

he would uses the op stop gohan from attack him then punch him once sending him into space for the win


----------



## lambda (Nov 13, 2010)

Heavenly King said:


> op>>>>>>>>>>>>ki blast .


Based on what?


----------



## Es (Nov 13, 2010)

Isn't it an artificial version of the Power Cosmic?


----------



## Heavenly King (Nov 13, 2010)

lambda said:


> Based on what?




 the old power can rival the power cosmic something that ki power can never do


----------



## Glued (Nov 13, 2010)

Power is power.

Cosmic Rays gave Ben Grimm, Johnny Storm, Reed and Sue extraordinary abilities.

Those same rays gave abilities to Red Ghost and his three apes.

Lyra is gamma powered and Ben could whoop her ass.

In Odin's battle with Thanos, Thanos didn't really give a shit that Odin's strength was Divine or Magical.

We go by feats.


----------



## Heavenly King (Nov 13, 2010)

Ben Grimm said:


> Power is power.
> 
> Cosmic Rays gave Ben Grimm, Johnny Storm, Reed and Sue extraordinary abilities.
> 
> ...




well said man



*Spoiler*: __ 



(hits hulk with 100 trillion ton level of force)


----------



## Heavenly King (Nov 13, 2010)

holds his own fighting the new hulk


----------



## lambda (Nov 13, 2010)

Yeah, right up to the point where Hulk actually gets serious and pounds him into the ground in three hits.


----------



## Heavenly King (Nov 13, 2010)

lambda said:


> Yeah, right up to the point where Hulk actually get serious and pound him into the ground in three hits.




still he showed that he can fight someone like the hulk. gohan wouldn't have had a prayer fighting the hulk


----------



## lambda (Nov 13, 2010)

100% of the marvel universe can fight against the Hulk as long as he lets them.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Nov 13, 2010)

Daredevil has lasted more than a panel against the Hulk.

The fact of a character getting into a fight with someone doesn't matter as much as _how_ they are fighting, and why.


----------



## Heavenly King (Nov 13, 2010)

Charcan said:


> Daredevil has lasted more than a panel against the Hulk.




spider man has 2


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Nov 13, 2010)

Are you ensuiating that Gohan couldn't do the same thing in close quarter combat? Anybody worth thier salt can fight Hulk when he's holding back. Spiderman and Wolverine have both done it more than once.

This is further demonstrated when Hulk stops holding back and proceeds to cockstomp him in three hit's.


----------



## Thor (Nov 13, 2010)

Heavenly King said:


> well said man
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How is he going to hit Gohan?


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 13, 2010)

hypersonic small mountain to the face should stun him for the microsecond needed to stab him


----------



## Kael Hyun (Nov 14, 2010)

Gohan stomps, hard. Then again I am not surprised to see Hulk Fanboys out trying to defend his sons honor.


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Nov 14, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> hypersonic small mountain to the face should stun him for the microsecond needed to stab him



What the hell is a mountain supposed to do to Gohan besides make him chuckle? Frieza tanked a planet exploding right in his face. Gohan is literally thousands of times the tank Frieza could ever hope to be.

Besides Skaar, isn't going to tag him anyways.

Skaar is not the Hulk.


----------



## Thor (Nov 14, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> hypersonic small mountain to the face should stun him for the microsecond needed to stab him



Skaar has never been shown to be that fast. Just because he can keep up with people who can keep up with speedsters doesn't mean he can keep up with speedsters, expecially on the level of Gohan.


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 15, 2010)

LOL@trolling. Gohan's best quantifiable speed feat is crossing a distance faster than a jet plane, if you want to know any more than that you have to use powerscaling. But that means we can use powerscaling for Skaar's speed too. His OP allowed him to sense everything on planet Sakaar down to the tiniest detail. If you think he won't be able to land a hit then you're full of shit (rhyme unintentional). And one hit is all he needs.


----------



## Thor (Nov 15, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> LOL@trolling. Gohan's best quantifiable speed feat is crossing a distance faster than a jet plane, if you want to know any more than that you have to use powerscaling. But that means we can use powerscaling for Skaar's speed too. His OP allowed him to sense everything *on* planet Sakaar down to the tiniest detail. If you think he won't be able to land a hit then you're full of shit (rhyme unintentional). And one hit is all he needs.



Gohan can fly ........the OP lets him feel everything on the ground 

Just because he can sense where something is doesn't mean he is fast enough to react to it.

Also you know that the way DB is set up allows for powerscaling while in verses like Marvel and DC where A>B>C doesn't exist powerscaling is stupid.


----------



## lambda (Nov 15, 2010)

Can Skaar destroy the Earth with a single punch now?


----------



## Es (Nov 15, 2010)

Thor Odinson said:


> Gohan can fly  ........the OP lets him feel everything on the ground
> 
> Just because he can sense where something is doesn't mean he is fast enough to react to it.
> 
> Also you know that the way DB is set up allows for powerscaling while in verses like Marvel and DC where A>B>C doesn't exist powerscaling is stupid.


Doesn't he start on the ground? He could just hit him with the Oldpower before he even gets the chance to even think about getting off the ground.


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 15, 2010)

Thor Odinson said:


> Gohan can fly ........the OP lets him feel everything on the ground



So he creates a huge cloud of dust or sand in the air and uses levitating rocks to fly too.



> Just because he can sense where something is doesn't mean he is fast enough to react to it.
> 
> Also you know that the way DB is set up allows for powerscaling while in verses like Marvel and DC where A>B>C doesn't exist powerscaling is stupid.



No, that's double-standard bullshit invented by DBZ fanboys. If it's allowed for one side, it has to be allowed for the other. Skaar is a rather new character, but he still has feats of punching Juggernaut at at least escape velocity, blasting Galactus over a range of multiple planetary diameters (no timeframe but he was doing it as he got sucked into a wormhole so I doubt it took hours, and anything faster than hours would make that blast more than fast enough to hit Gohan), he can sense things across interplanetary distances, he has basically limitless stamina, and the physical strength to reduce Gohan to paste with the slightest tap.

This is a stomp.


----------



## Thor (Nov 15, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> *So he creates a huge cloud of dust or sand in the air *and uses levitating rocks to fly too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Proof of all the things bolded. Skaar can only sense Old Power from Interplanetary distances.

You also forget Gohan is a class 100 as well. Skaar is not turning his body into paste with a tap.


----------



## Thor (Nov 15, 2010)

lambda said:


> Can Skaar destroy the Earth with a single punch now?



No. Earth is so many more time larger than Planet Sakaar.


----------



## lambda (Nov 15, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> No, that's double-standard bullshit invented by DBZ fanboys. If it's allowed for one side, it has to be allowed for the other.


Except the fact that a stronger character is superior all across the board in DBZ is something supported by every single fight since Raditz' appearance, so the logic makes sense in this case and really doesn't justify using it in case where it doesn't.


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 15, 2010)

Thor Odinson said:


> Proof of all the things bolded. Skaar can only sense Old Power from Interplanetary distances.



Old power gives him geokinesis. I don't see why he couldn't do that.

Also:



Those debris are the remains of a destroyed planet.



> You also forget Gohan is a class 100 as well. Skaar is not turning his body into paste with a tap.



He's nowhere near class 100. If you mean 100+ tons, sure, but that's not class 100 as Marvel has been defining it for a while (see the class 80 Thing routinely performing feats in the millions of tons range), the best strength feats in DBZ are kicking people through small islands, they would get wrecked by anyone with strength in Skaar's class.


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 15, 2010)

Thor Odinson said:


> No. Earth is so many more time larger than Planet Sakaar.



Your evidence for this is....?



lambda said:


> Except the fact that a stronger character is superior all across the board in DBZ is something supported by every single fight since Raditz' appearance, so the logic makes sense in this case and really doesn't justify using it in case where it doesn't.



Wrong. See Trunks vs. Cell, Burter's speed compared to the rest of the Ginyu force, etc.


----------



## lambda (Nov 15, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> Those debris are the remains of a destroyed planet.


And unless Galactus was roughly as big as Eurasia there, it means nothing.





Endless Mike said:


> He's nowhere near class 100. If you mean 100+ tons, sure, but that's not class 100 as Marvel has been defining it for a while (see the class 80 Thing routinely performing feats in the millions of tons range), the best strength feats in DBZ are kicking people through small islands, they would get wrecked by anyone with strength in Skaar's class.


Except they use ki to boost their attributes, the same ki they use to blow up planets.



Endless Mike said:


> Wrong. See Trunks vs. Cell, Burter's speed compared to the rest of the Ginyu force, etc.


 Trunk is an execption using one specific form, where they immediately point out its oddity for not boosting speed, so it reinforce my case. Baruta is the guy shouting he is the fastest in the universe while knowing very well Frieza is better than him in every way, so I'm pretty sure he's full of shit.


----------



## Es (Nov 15, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> Your evidence for this is....?


Wasn't Sakaar two times the size of earth? I remember it's diameter was mentioned in the Gladiator Guidebook in Planet Hulk.


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 15, 2010)

lambda said:


> And unless Galactus was roughly as big as Eurasia there, it means nothing.



Considering he can alter his size at will and has shown to be larger than planets on multiple occasions, I fail to see your point.



> Except they use ki to boost their attributes, the same ki they use to blow up planets.



Yet their physical strength feats are nowhere near that. Everyone knows this. Claiming they have planetbusting strength is retarded.



> Trunk is an execption using one specific form, where they immediately point out its oddity for not boosting speed, so it reinforce my case.



No they don't, only Cell points it out after the fight is over.



> Baruta is the guy shouting he is the fastest in the universe while knowing very well Frieza is better than him in every way, so I'm pretty sure he's full of shit.



The other Ginyu Force members accepted he was faster than they were. We've also got Piccolo vs. 17.


----------



## Thor (Nov 15, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> Your evidence for this is....?
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong. See Trunks vs. Cell, Burter's speed compared to the rest of the Ginyu force, etc.



Sakaaris smaller than Earth. 


So you mention 2 isolated examples out of the whole series? 


Endless Mike said:


> Those debris are the remains of a destroyed planet.
> 
> 
> 
> He's nowhere near class 100. If you mean 100+ tons, sure, but that's not class 100 as Marvel has been defining it for a while (see the class 80 Thing routinely performing feats in the millions of tons range), the best strength feats in DBZ are kicking people through small islands, they would get wrecked by anyone with strength in Skaar's class.



Circumstances of how the planet was destroyed please.

Just like DBfanboys talk about every blast of theirs is planet busting you are insinuating that every old power punch Skaar throws is planet busting.


----------



## lambda (Nov 15, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> Considering he can alter his size at will and has shown to be larger than planets on multiple occasions, I fail to see your point.


which doesn't matter if he isn't at that point.




> Yet their physical strength feats are nowhere near that. Everyone knows this. Claiming they have planetbusting strength is retarded.


Why? Those very punches have sometime the strength to hurt people who survive planetbusting ki blast.





> No they don't, only Cell points it out after the fight is over.



Which is what, the same chapter? Going over semantics isn't going to change much.



> The other Ginyu Force members accepted he was faster than they were. We've also got Piccolo vs. 17.


Actually Ginyu was also much faster than him, so that's not even true. And what about Piccolo vs C17?

I don't like DBwanking anymore than you do EM, but maybe you should tone down the hate on your side, mmkay?


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 15, 2010)

no one knows gallactus's true shape or form but his heralds. Each race perceives him as a different variation of themselves


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 15, 2010)

Thor Odinson said:


> Sakaaris smaller than Earth.



Not seeing Earth anywhere on that picture.



> So you mention 2 isolated examples out of the whole series?



So I give you evidence but you just ignore it and keep demanding more?




> Circumstances of how the planet was destroyed please.



Doesn't matter. The point is to show the range and speed of Skaar's attack. Stating that the debris was planetary was to emphasize scale.



> Just like DBfanboys talk about every blast of theirs is planet busting you are insinuating that every old power punch Skaar throws is planet busting.



When did I ever say that?



lambda said:


> which doesn't matter if he isn't at that point.



He was. That wormhole was quite a distance away from the remains of planet Sakaar.



> Why? Those very punches have sometime the strength to hurt people who survive planetbusting ki blast.



Their durability against ki and physical attacks is differen't, we've been over this dozens of times in the OBD. They have no feats anywhere near real class 100s.



> Which is what, the same chapter? Going over semantics isn't going to change much.



Um, no. It shows that PL does not correlate directly to speed.



> Actually Ginyu was also much faster than him, so that's not even true.



Evidence?



> And what about Piccolo vs C17?



Stamina made one beat the other.



> I don't like DBwanking anymore than you do EM, but maybe you should tone down the hate on your side, mmkay?



If you don't like it, stop doing it.


----------



## lambda (Nov 15, 2010)

Is this statement supposed to make him a more reliable benchmark?


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 15, 2010)

lambda said:


> Is this statement supposed to make him a more reliable benchmark?



Which one, mine? I don't know, I simply threw a fact into the conversation and hoped it would help it.
Usually when you can throw bolts like that at galactus and make him feel it, then you can safely bet you're on the planet busting scale.


----------



## lambda (Nov 15, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> Doesn't matter. The point is to show the range and speed of Skaar's attack.


And I don't see either in those scans.



> He was. That wormhole was quite a distance away from the remains of planet Sakaar.


How far is that, and how far those remains are from the original position of Sakaar?




> Their durability against ki and physical attacks is differen't, we've been over this dozens of times in the OBD. They have no feats anywhere near real class 100s.


Except their punches are just as ki based so I don't get how that works.




> Um, no. It shows that PL does not correlate directly to speed.


In that one case. So what?




> Evidence?


Ginyu's ability to keep up with Goku, unlike Baruta.




> Stamina made one beat the other.


Because he's a machine. Nothing to do with his pl.




> If you don't like it, stop doing it.


And I'm not.




Banhammer said:


> Which one, mine? I don't know, I simply threw a fact into the conversation and hoped it would help it.
> Usually when you can throw bolts like that at galactus and make him feel it, then you can safely bet you're on the planet busting scale.


He didn't even do that.


----------



## Thor (Nov 15, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> Not seeing Earth anywhere on that picture.
> .



Are you being difficult on purpose? Do you need to be spoon fed? The scan explicitly says the Planet Sakaars diameter is 12,150 kilometers the Earths is 12,756 kilometers.


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 15, 2010)

Also, why would power level relate to speed? You can be a power horse, but not exactly a speed demon with it.
Like a road cylinder. It outputs far more energy than a motorcycle, but it ain't winning any races


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 15, 2010)

lambda said:


> And I don't see either in those scans.





The wormhole is a ways away from where the planet used to be. The blast reached across multiple planetary diameters. He was being sucked into the wormhole and it hit Galactus before he went in, so at the very most it took a minute.



> How far is that, and how far those remains are from the original position of Sakaar?



Basically at the same place



> Except their punches are just as ki based so I don't get how that works.



Too bad, that's what the series shows. They're hurt by physical attacks nowhere near what Skaar can dish out.



> In that one case. So what?



In every case, if you want to use powerscaling for speed feats you have to allow it on both sides.



> Ginyu's ability to keep up with Goku, unlike Baruta.



Explain Recoome and Jeice then.



> Because he's a machine. Nothing to do with his pl.



Point is that power is not the only thing that determines the fight.



> And I'm not.



Suggesting they have planetbusting strength? 



Thor Odinson said:


> Are you being difficult on purpose? Do you need to be spoon fed? The scan explicitly says the Planet Sakaars diameter is 12,150 kilometers the Earths is 12,756 kilometers.



It never says kilometers, we don't know what units that number is in. Besides, that's not much of a difference and I don't see how it's even relevant, since Galactus was the one who destroyed Sakaar.


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 15, 2010)

So, the state of indiana in diameter makes the earth "many more times larger" than Sakaar?
Also it could be miles. Or any other unit for that matter


----------



## lambda (Nov 15, 2010)

Because that's how things work in DBZ. Peolpe with a higher PL are stronger, faster, and more durable than their opponents.


----------



## Thor (Nov 15, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> So, the state of indiana in diameter makes the earth "many more times larger" then Sakaar?



Depends on how you look at it.


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 15, 2010)

lambda said:


> Because that's how things work in DBZ. Peolpe with a higher PL are stronger, faster, and more durable than their opponents.



Not always. Allow powerscaling on one side, you have to allow it on both.


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 15, 2010)

Thor Odinson said:


> Depends on how you look at it.



You realize that "many times larger" means at least 3 times as large, right?


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 15, 2010)

Didn't we had outgrow the mathematical portion power levels, since they were clearly just a plot tool to make people think like there was some huge worf effect that was scarcely supported by long time context of feats?


----------



## Thor (Nov 15, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> So, the state of indiana in diameter makes the earth "many more times larger" than Sakaar?
> Also it could be miles. Or any other unit for that matter




Because measuring planetary bodies diameters in kilometers is not the common/universal way to measure one


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 15, 2010)

Thor Odinson said:


> Depends on how you look at it.



How about objectively? 0.05 is not many times more, it's just 0.05 times more.

If it were to be in kilometers. You have no idea on what the unit is.


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 15, 2010)

Thor Odinson said:


> Because measuring planetary bodies diameters in kilometers is not the common/universal way to measure one



No, no it isn't. Don't  you bastardize giogio on me.
Asides, nasa has had a good history of conflicts between the using of kilometers and miles, to the point where one of their hundred million dollar probes actually crashed and failed horribly because the two software teams were using different systems.


----------



## lambda (Nov 15, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> The wormhole is a ways away from where the planet used to be. The blast reached across multiple planetary diameters. He was being sucked into the wormhole and it hit Galactus before he went in, so at the very most it took a minute..


 Actually, I'm pretty sure he's in already at that point.





> Basically at the same place


... Evidence? There's a blackhole around which might possibly affect their position.



> Too bad, that's what the series shows. They're hurt by physical attacks nowhere near what Skaar can dish out.


So you say.





> In every case, if you want to use powerscaling for speed feats you have to allow it on both sides.


Why? Only one side actually follow that logic.





> Explain Recoome and Jeice then.


Explain what?





> Point is that power is not the only thing that determines the fight.


Sure it's not. Now how that has anything to do with this thread.



> Suggesting they have planetbusting strength?


Saying they can use their power in any way they want. It's all one and the same. A depleted Freeza survived to the explosion of Namek right in his face. Didn't save him against Trunk's sword.[/QUOTE]


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 15, 2010)

also, I wonder how those values apply to that gas giant over there. Because if it's with atmosphere and only measures ten times more than sakaar, then you better damned well believe sakaar is aloooooooooooooooooot larger than Earth
Even if it applied to the mass you'd have to rethink the whole system


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 15, 2010)

lambda said:


> Actually, I'm pretty sure he's in already at that point.



Who's already at what point?



> ... Evidence? There's a blackhole around which might possibly affect their position.



Learn the difference between a black hole and a wormhole. The wormhole was in orbit of the planet for years without affecting it. 



> So you say.



So I know, because that is what is shown.



> Why? Only one side actually follow that logic.



Because you say so? Tagging or outspeeding someone with known speed feats is valid powerscaling on both sides or neither.



> Explain what?



How they were equal to him but slower.



> Sure it's not. Now how that has anything to do with this thread.



Yes it does because you're assuming perfectly accurate powerscaling.



> Saying they can use their power in any way they want. It's all one and the same. A depleted Freeza survived to the explosion of Namek right in his face. Didn't save him against Trunk's sword.



And that's what we call an inconsistency. If Trunks was hitting with the strength to destroy a planet or even impart the small amount of the explosion that Frieza took it would have created a huge shockwave that would have devastated a large part of the planet. Certainly Bulma wouldn't have been able to survive being so close. Their best strength feats are kicking and punching people through islands and small mountains, Skaar and other characters on that strength level would pulp them with a slight tap.


----------



## lambda (Nov 15, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> Didn't we had outgrow the mathematical portion power levels, since they were clearly just a plot tool to make people think like there was some huge worf effect that was scarcely supported by long time context of feats?


I'm certainly not bringing any math into this, just the very straightforward and simple A>B>C logic, which is supported by the majority of the show.


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 15, 2010)

lambda said:


> I'm certainly not bringing any math into this, just the very straightforward and simple A>B>C logic, which is supported by the majority of the show.



Well, I still feel like you need a solid context once in a while to support it.
Yeah, you had frieza lasercutting a planet in half in a low form, but when do you go back to those level of feats? The how much stronger value begins to fade, fast.
(on a side note, cuting our planet in half the way he did in namek wouldn't do much at all. The gravitational pull would keep us together and the earth would heal itself very quickly. Like, within minutes.)

Anyway Mike, lambda is regular and a friend. You don't need to facepalm yourself when you want to point out that a wormhole is a tear in time and space, and therefore, since there is no spacial pressure, there's actually no gravity, and there would be no reason for the debris to be pulled.
However, it should be said, there isn't supposed to be any air in space either, but there he is shouting.


----------



## lambda (Nov 15, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> Who's already at what point?


Skaar. He's already very visibly inside the wormhole.



> Learn the difference between a black hole and a wormhole. The wormhole was in orbit of the planet for years without affecting it.


Sorry, mistook the terms. Doesn't change much though. There's no rules the debris of the planet have to stay put after its destruction. 


> So I know, because that is what is shown.


 How is it shown?




> Because you say so? Tagging or outspeeding someone with known speed feats is valid powerscaling on both sides or neither.


No, it's valid for one because it has been demonstrated time and again that it is. Nothing to do with me.



> How they were equal to him but slower.


 I don't remember Baruta being faster than either of them either.



> Yes it does because you're assuming perfectly accurate powerscaling.


Where, how? I'm assuming generally consistent powerscaling, because that's what we see in the series.



> And that's what we call an inconsistency. If Trunks was hitting with the strength to destroy a planet or even impart the small amount of the explosion that Frieza took it would have created a huge shockwave that would have devastated a large part of the planet. Certainly Bulma wouldn't have been able to survive being so close.


 DB Character produces shockwaves with their punches since Goku ejected Chi-Chi from the ring with just an empty motion. The fact that toriyama doesn'tdepict it every time changes.... what?



> Their best strength feats are kicking and punching people through islands and small mountains, Skaar and other characters on that strength level would pulp them with a slight tap.


Based on what feat?


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 15, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> Well, I still feel like you need a solid context once in a while to support it.
> Yeah, you had frieza lasercutting a planet in half in a low form, but when do you go back to those level of feats? The how much stronger value begins to fade, fast.
> 
> 
> (on a side note, cuting our planet in half the way he did in namek wouldn't do much at all. The gravitational pull would keep us together and the earth would heal itself very quickly. Like, within minutes.)



He actually only cut a trench a few km long. You can see where it ends in the manga scans.



> Anyway Mike, lambda is regular and a friend. You don't need to facepalm yourself when you want to point out that a wormhole is a tear in time and space, and therefore, since there is no spacial pressure, there's actually no gravity, and there would be no reason for the debris to be pulled.
> However, it should be said, there isn't supposed to be any air in space either, but there he is shouting.



You can shout in space, it just won't make sound, but the text intends to be what he meant to say.


----------



## lambda (Nov 15, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> Well, I still feel like you need a solid context once in a while to support it.
> Yeah, you had frieza lasercutting a planet in half in a low form, but when do you go back to those level of feats? The how much stronger value begins to fade, fast.
> (on a side note, cuting our planet in half the way he did in namek wouldn't do much at all. The gravitational pull would keep us together and the earth would heal itself very quickly. Like, within minutes.)


I know, which is why I'm only working with what I got. You don't see me arguing anything beyond the demonstrated planetbusting, do you?


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 15, 2010)

lambda said:


> Skaar. He's already very visibly inside the wormhole.



In that case, the blast was even faster. I was being conservative with the time estimate.



> Sorry, mistook the terms. Doesn't change much though. There's no rules the debris of the planet have to stay put after its destruction.



So they all moved right next to the wormhole, even though most of the visible chunks were at least moon - size so the distance is shown anyway?



> How is it shown?



The fact that they have no strength feats anywhere near what you are suggesting and are hurt by much weaker physical attacks? Base Goku in the Buu saga couldn't lift 40 tons. Tien and Krillin couldn't break down a door in the Cell saga.



> No, it's valid for one because it has been demonstrated time and and again that it is. Nothing to do with me.



Wrong, it's valid for both or not valid at all.



> I don't remember Baruta being faster than either of them either.



He was acknowledged to be.



> Where, how? I'm assuming generally consistent powerscaling, because that's what we see in the series.



Doesn't mean you can just take feats from one character and apply them to any other character and ignore powerscaling for other series.



> DB Character produces shockwaves with their punches since Goku ejected Chi-Chi from the ring with just an empty motion. The fact that toriyama doesn'tdepict it every time changes.... what?



It's not just a visual effect, it would have very obvious physical effects. But they didn't. No physical attack has ever shown to be anywhere close to planetary level.



> Based on what feat?



Going HtH with Hulk and Juggernaut, having a maximum strength rating in his official profile, punching Juggernaut to the asteroid belt, etc.


----------



## Thor (Nov 15, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> Going HtH with Hulk and Juggernaut, *having a maximum strength rating in his official profile*, punching Juggernaut to the asteroid belt, etc.



I can't believe you really put this down as proof.

He didn't punch Juggernaut into the asteroid belt.


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 15, 2010)

Thor Odinson said:


> I can't believe you really put this down as proof.



Not the fan-voted profiles, the official profiles, aka the ones in comics, not on the internet. And it's not proof, just supporting evidence.


----------



## lambda (Nov 15, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> In that case, the blast was even faster. I was being conservative with the time estimate.


 Or the blast didn't need Skaar to be there at all after he threw it.


> So they all moved right next to the wormhole, even though most of the visible chunks were at least moon - size so the distance is shown anyway?


I have no idea, but neither do you. And on what do you base their size?


> The fact that they have no strength feats anywhere near what you are suggesting and are hurt by much weaker physical attacks? Base Goku in the Buu saga couldn't lift 40 tons. Tien and Krillin couldn't break down a door in the Cell saga.


And of course, that's in line with people who destroy mountains with their fists. Nice how only the high showings are inconsistencies in your mind.



> Wrong, it's valid for both or not valid at all.


You know, if your only argument is "nu huh", I'm just going to say that you conceded the point.



> He was acknowledged to be.


He was? Pretty sure that only one who ever said anything about his speed was himself.



> Doesn't mean you can just take feats from one character and apply them to any other character and ignore powerscaling for other series.


 I'm not saying that they can use boss rabbit carrot ray, I'm only saying what's supported by the show.



> It's not just a visual effect, it would have very obvious physical effects. But they didn't. No physical attack has ever shown to be anywhere close to planetary level.


They wouldn't have hurt their opponents anymore than they did, so yes, they'd only be visual effects actually.




> *Going HtH with Hulk and Juggernaut, having a maximum strength rating in his official profile*, punching Juggernaut to the asteroid belt, etc.


Are you seriously pretending those have any sort of relevance?


----------



## Z (Nov 15, 2010)

Gohan gets torn apart literally if he gets tagged by Skaar.


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Nov 15, 2010)

Z said:


> Gohan gets torn apart literally if he gets tagged by Skaar.



Too bad that won't happen before Gohan spams ki bombs that makes Kid Buu's planet buster look like utter shit in comparison.

lol @Endless Mike using the 40 ton instance and Z fighters failing to open the steel door as evidence. We have hundreds of instances, all the way since the 23rd Budokai of Z fighters smacking each other through mountains and coming out unscathed. 

Throughout the whole damn manga, you pick out 2 instances and try to use them as evidence that Gohan isn't Class 100? Laughable.

If anything, those two instances are inconsistencies since they are clearly outweighed by the amount of feats that blatantly contradict them.


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 15, 2010)

lambda said:


> I know, which is why I'm only working with what I got. You don't see me arguing anything beyond the demonstrated planetbusting, do you?



Well, no but I'm not arguing against you here, I'm just putting what I feel like is constructive input. Ki is a form of energy, although I did have this argument with TWF where I think there was a conclusion that it was their own physical energy.So mind you, they have it in them the power to planet bust,  but using it in a blast like a canon, is very much difrent then using it like an engine.
I think the concept I'm getting at is ... glass canon? As much as island or even continent busting can be called "glass"
Like how's there's lab glass who can withstand a welding torch but will break just as easily if you drop it on the floor.
You should keep that strongly in account when facing a guy on the same class as one who breaks the planet by walking on it.


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 15, 2010)

Thor Odinson said:


> I can't believe you really put this down as proof.


It's not proof, he's using the official (not fan) levels to give us a notion of the context.
All it does is give you an idea of the acepted notion



> He didn't punch Juggernaut into the asteroid belt.


If you want to claim he didn't why would you post a scan of him being punched into the asteroid belt?


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 15, 2010)

Also, it's true that DBZ holds a power scalling system higher than most mangas, but in the OBD that's a handicap. You need more feats once in a while, or else the scaling is meaningless.


----------



## Soledad Eterna (Nov 15, 2010)

Eternal Sleep said:


> Too bad that won't happen before Gohan spams ki bombs that makes Kid Buu's planet buster look like utter shit in comparison.
> 
> lol @Endless Mike using the 40 ton instance and* Z fighters failing to open the steel door* as evidence. We have hundreds of instances, all the way since the 23rd Budokai of Z fighters smacking each other through mountains and coming out unscathed.
> 
> ...


Actually, that was built by Gero, the same guy that build machines stronger than Freeza, and that door require Vegeta to do a Big Bang Attack to open it and still didn't do that much damage.


----------



## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Nov 15, 2010)

Eternal Sleep said:


> lol @Endless Mike using the 40 ton instance and Z fighters failing to open the steel door as evidence. We have hundreds of instances, all the way since the 23rd Budokai of Z fighters smacking each other through mountains and coming out unscathed.
> 
> Throughout the whole damn manga, you pick out 2 instances and try to use them as evidence that Gohan isn't Class 100? Laughable.



Laughable would be to think those strength feats make them class 100 bricks like the Hulk family are. You don't think they're class 100 because they can lift more than 100 tons, are you? Are you aware that's not what class 100 means when saying Hulk and Skaar are that strong? Because that's pretty n00bish.


----------



## Thor (Nov 16, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> It's not proof, he's using the official (not fan) levels to give us a notion of the context.
> All it does is give you an idea of the acepted notion
> 
> 
> If you want to claim he didn't why would you post a scan of him being punched into the asteroid belt?



That's the same as using powerlevels as proof for the other side.

The moon is in the midst of the asteroid belt now?


----------



## Cooler (Nov 16, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> And that's what we call an inconsistency. If Trunks was hitting with the strength to destroy a planet or even impart the small amount of the explosion that Frieza took it would have created a huge shockwave that would have devastated a large part of the planet. Certainly Bulma wouldn't have been able to survive being so close. Their best strength feats are kicking and punching people through islands and small mountains, Skaar and other characters on that strength level would pulp them with a slight tap.



Yes and the lack of sonic booms mean that DB'ers are subsonic aswell right?


----------



## Bender (Nov 16, 2010)

I can't believe this thread isn't closed

Death is Gohan's only option in this fight


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 16, 2010)

Thor Odinson said:


> That's the same as using powerlevels as proof for the other side.


Powerlevels are a vectorial value. Strength index is scalar.
So right in there, they're objectively different

Giving a notion of the strength power level as a mean of supporting context, not proof, is what I would say is the actual opposite of using the worf effect trope machine that are power level



> The moon is in the midst of the asteroid belt now?



Oh my God, you're right


That's not the asteroid belt. The blue planet over there indicates it's Uranus's ring.
That makes the asteroid belt estimative a massive downplaying.
Thanks for catching it


----------



## Bender (Nov 16, 2010)

If a scouter was used to gauge Hulk or his son's power level jesus christ....Shit would break in two seconds.


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Nov 16, 2010)

Charcan said:


> Laughable would be to think those strength feats make them class 100 bricks like the Hulk family are. You don't think they're class 100 because they can lift more than 100 tons, are you? Are you aware that's not what class 100 means when saying Hulk and Skaar are that strong? Because that's pretty n00bish.



What the hell are you on about?

Gohan is magnitues more durable than a guy who can tank a planet busting explosion within in inch from death. 

Skaar is definitely not going to knock him out in a hit. Or even two.

Unless you got scans of Skaar busting up Namek sized planets with his fist, then he's going to need more than punches to take Gohan. A lot more.


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Nov 16, 2010)

Bender said:


> If a scouter was used to gauge Hulk or his son's power level jesus christ....Shit would break in two seconds.



Vegeta has been blowing that shit up by flexing his power since the Namek Saga. 

Try again.


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 16, 2010)

Isn't the planet blowing up on Frieza's face  a situation like that one time where Pell survived a nuke?


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Nov 16, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> Isn't the planet blowing up on Frieza's face  a situation like that one time where Pell survived a nuke?



Not even close. People have been discussing the buisness of busting planets since the Sayain Saga. 

The second strongest fighter in the Namek Saga, who has been busting planets for god knows how long, should be able to tank one. 

Pell tanking a nuke however, doesn't make any sense considering he is fodder in a verse that still freaks out about island splitting.


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 16, 2010)

So, we're claiming Trunks carried around a planet busting sword who could do the awesome power of planetbusting + but only at his length?

I mean at least when ki blasts land and don't do shit to the bad guy there will be a nearby cliff who gets pulverized all the same


----------



## lambda (Nov 16, 2010)

Thor doesn't flatten cities everytime he hits with his hammer at full strength, does he?


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 16, 2010)

No he does not, although sometimes he does.
Sometimes he busts planets, and he's hitting through another guy about his power level or more.


It should be noted a hammer is somewhat very different from a sword.


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Nov 16, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> So, we're claiming Trunks carried around a planet busting sword who could do the awesome power of planetbusting + but only at his length?
> 
> I mean at least when ki blasts land and don't do shit to the bad guy there will be a nearby cliff who gets pulverized all the same



Cutting Resistacne =/= Blunt Trauma Resistance

Banhammer you know that 

To cut a planet buster doesn't mean the after effect has to result in the planet being busted. Swords don't produce explosions or the like unless there supernatural in nature. Trunks sword wasn't anything special. It was a regular damn sword.

EDIT: Or the sword could have been particulary sharp. Could have depended on the holder of said sword as well.

A grenade can level a house.

A diamond can tank a grenade blast.

I use my machine to cut my diamond in my house.

The after effect does not result in my house being destroyed. It just results in the diamond being cut.


----------



## lambda (Nov 16, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> No he does not, although sometimes he does.
> Sometimes he busts planets, and he's hitting through another guy about his power level or more.
> 
> 
> It should be noted a hammer is somewhat very different from a sword.


 But it's not the sword that's powerful, it's Trunk. Trunk stopped the blade with his bare hands with no problem when Cooler used it.

And Trunk has more than enough power to planetbust.


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 16, 2010)

lambda said:


> But it's not the sword that's powerful, it's Trunk. Trunk stopped the blade with his bare hands with no problem when Cooler used it.
> 
> And Trunk has more than enough power to planetbust.



I'm seeing that, and I think I know what you mean, but surely you can see how the feat is sketchy?
I mean if he can dish out planet busting powers in controlled cuts that devastate nothing past it's sword length, then DBZ gains a whole new meaning that borderlines on nonsense.

I mean, the sword is magical in origin is it not? Or was this a movie?
It's been so long, things get fuzzy in my mind. If yes, then right there you have some sort of attenuate circumstances.

Anyway, I'll think on what this means later


> Cutting Resistance =/= Blunt Trauma Resistance





Are Ki's blunt trauma damage? I thought they were energy.
I mean they've explosive byproducts. I guess an explosion is a concussion of sorts, but I think there's a sever mix up in arguments here


And don't get started on diamonds. I'm going to bed now, and I don't feel like going on a rant about tetrahedral carbon bonds or the Mohs scale.


----------



## Thor (Nov 16, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> Oh my God, you're right
> 
> 
> That's not the asteroid belt. The blue planet over there indicates it's Uranus's ring.
> ...



Uranus has craters now?


----------



## Havoc (Nov 16, 2010)

Yours does.

ba dum tssh


----------



## Bender (Nov 16, 2010)

Banhammer said:


> I mean if he can dish out planet busting powers in controlled cuts that devastate nothing past it's sword length, then DBZ gains a whole new meaning that borderlines on nonsense.



There is nothing planet busting about Trunks sword.



> I mean, the sword is magical in origin is it not? Or was this a movie?



It was in the movie

Seriously, you should know that. That shit is so non-cannon it's not even funny.

Also Hulk and his son continue to grow stronger the angrier they get. So say Gohan keeps pounding away at Skaar all he's doing is pissing him off.


----------



## Es (Nov 16, 2010)

Thor Odinson said:


> Uranus has craters now?


I have the issue in my hand right now and I no fucking clue sbout what you mean, the planet Juggs was orbiting was obviously not the moon, it doesn't have a single crater on it, not unless you think just because there are craters on an asteroid it automatically makes it the moon or something.


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Nov 17, 2010)

Bender said:


> There is nothing planet busting about Trunks sword.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No sword is a planet buster. It depends on the wielder. 

What do you mean pounding away? He's getting vaporized by a barrage of planet busting ki attacks at the beginning of the match.


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 17, 2010)

Thor Odinson said:


> Uranus has craters now?



easy jokes aside, it does have giant atmospheric storms that would simply look round like that





Havoc said:


> Yours does.
> 
> ba dum tssh



Oh lawd


----------



## Heavenly King (Nov 17, 2010)

gohan would loses in the end


----------



## lambda (Nov 17, 2010)

What's Skaar's biggest durability feat?


----------



## Bender (Nov 17, 2010)

Eternal Sleep said:


> What do you mean pounding away? He's getting vaporized by a barrage of planet busting ki attacks at the beginning of the match.



lol lol lol

Have you read World war Hulk? Hulk took on the Sentry who has the strength of a million suns. He pounds the ever loving fuck out of the hulk and their fights destroys everything in sight. Had the fight continued it's likely they could have torn apart the planet. Also in the end the Sentry falls and reverts to his normal form along with Bruce. However, after watching his friend be hurt Bruce is able to transform back into the Hulk. 

So tell me does Gohan have the power of a million exploding suns? Or able to resist that? 

Last I checked Gohan along with all Saiyans  as well as other DBZverse characters can't survive the explosion of a planet.


----------



## Watchman (Nov 17, 2010)

Erm, Bender, "power of a hundred million exploding suns" is pretty obviously hyperbole.


----------



## Es (Nov 17, 2010)

lambda said:


> What's Skaar's biggest durability feat?


He once used the oldpower to rebuild his body after he used it to hold K'aii together.


----------



## Thor (Nov 17, 2010)

Bender said:


> lol lol lol
> 
> Have you read World war Hulk? Hulk took on the Sentry who has the strength of a million suns. He pounds the ever loving fuck out of the hulk and their fights destroys everything in sight. Had the fight continued it's likely they could have torn apart the planet. Also in the end the Sentry falls and reverts to his normal form along with Bruce. However, after watching his friend be hurt Bruce is able to transform back into the Hulk.
> 
> ...



Tell me is Skaar, Hulk?

Skaar's strength is not identical to the Hulks, his durability is nowhere near Hulks. Stop using Hulk feats for Skaar, FYI WB Hulk treated Skaar like a Peon.


----------



## Thor (Nov 17, 2010)

Bender said:


> Also *Hulk and his son continue to grow stronger the angrier they get.* So say Gohan keeps pounding away at Skaar all he's doing is pissing him off.



At different rates and unlike Hulk, Skaar has shown limits.


----------



## Thor (Nov 17, 2010)

Es said:


> He once used the oldpower to rebuild his body after he used it to hold K'aii together.



Because K'aii was a planet filled with Old Power. What planet are Gohan and Skaar fighting on?


----------



## lambda (Nov 17, 2010)

Es said:


> He once used the oldpower to rebuild his body after he used it to hold K'aii together.


That's not a durability feat.


----------



## Es (Nov 17, 2010)

lambda said:


> That's not a durability feat.


My mistake, what about when he took being punched into the atmosphere by the Hulk and went through reentry ? And there might be more from his series, I do know he fought Silver Surfer


----------



## Bender (Nov 17, 2010)

Watchman said:


> Erm, Bender, "power of a hundred million exploding suns" is pretty obviously hyperbole.



Okay but tell me does Gohan possess strength to lift something the size of the moon?  Last I checked Skaar is able to do that while Gohan is not.


----------



## Thor (Nov 17, 2010)

Bender said:


> Okay but tell me does Gohan possess strength to lift something the size of the moon?  Last I checked Skaar is able to do that while Gohan is not.



And that helps Skaar in a fight how? He's not hitting Gohan, while Gohan can stay in the air and spam till he's tired. Since Skaar is not Hulk his strength won't elevate as much or as fast. I can't really see Skaar winning unless the fight takes place on a planet full of Old Power and Gohan trying to brawl with Skaar.


----------



## Bender (Nov 17, 2010)

Thor Odinson said:


> And that helps Skaar in a fight how? He's not hitting Gohan, while Gohan can stay in the air and spam till he's tired.



And Skaar can wait until he gets tired then attack


----------



## Es (Nov 17, 2010)

Thor Odinson said:


> And that helps Skaar in a fight how? He's not hitting Gohan, while Gohan can stay in the air and spam till he's tired.


Can't he jump nearly several miles or even higher into the air? Also can't he fly with the Oldpower?


----------



## lambda (Nov 17, 2010)

Bender said:


> And Skaar can wait until he gets tired then attack


Because Skaar is immortal, right?


----------



## Thor (Nov 17, 2010)

Es said:


> Can't he jump nearly several miles or even higher into the air? Also can't he fly with the Oldpower?



Skaar can only jump straight and he can't jump faster than Gohan can move. Gohan just side steps him.

He can similate flight by levitating a large boulder using terrakinesis, but it's nowhere near as fast as Gohan can move.


Bender said:


> And Skaar can wait until he gets tired then attack



Skaar is invunerable to harm?


----------



## Heavenly King (Nov 17, 2010)

Eternal Sleep said:


> No sword is a planet buster. It depends on the wielder.
> 
> What do you mean pounding away? He's getting vaporized by a barrage of planet busting ki attacks at the beginning of the match.



gohan isn't going to do know such thing he's not going to risk destroying the planet


----------



## Majinvergil (Nov 17, 2010)

Well depends if they are bloodlusted.


----------



## Heavenly King (Nov 17, 2010)

Majinvergil said:


> Well depends if they are bloodlusted.




gohan would be to worried about the planet to much.  


Skaar takes a Hit to the face from Thor (he was fien afterwords)


----------



## lambda (Nov 17, 2010)

Heavenly King said:


> gohan isn't going to do know such thing he's not going to risk destroying the planet


That didn't stop them in the series. 



Heavenly King said:


> Skaar takes a Hit to the face from Thor (he was fien afterwords)


 One hit. And how powerful was that hit?


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Nov 17, 2010)

Heavenly King said:


> gohan isn't going to do know such thing he's not going to risk destroying the planet



What planet? 

The fight is in the fucking hyperbolic time chamber.

EDIT:

Location not specified and Skaar is not allowed in space... WTF?

Doesn't matter though, seeing as Gohan is not in character, therefore he wouldn't give a shit what happens as collateral in his bloodlusted attempt to defeat his opponent.


----------



## Thor (Nov 17, 2010)

Heavenly King said:


> gohan would be to worried about the planet to much.



You never read the Cell vs Gohan fight when Gohan left his attack until the last second to counter Cells attack. Gohan has no qualms about taking risks.



> Skaar takes a Hit to the face from Thor (he was fien afterwords)



A generic hit from Thor. Most class 100's should be able to recover from that.


----------



## Heavenly King (Nov 17, 2010)

lambda said:


> That didn't stop them in the series.
> 
> One hit. And how powerful was that hit?



 last time i check gohan and friends didn't spam planet busters like that at all at the planet. 




Eternal Sleep said:


> What planet?
> 
> The fight is in the fucking hyperbolic time chamber.
> 
> ...



lol@hyperbolic time chamber.. oh i like how you making all this things up for gohan. last time i check you didn't make the thread so he can be in character. oh by the way skaar is almost always in blood lust in battle



Thor Odinson said:


> You never read the Cell vs Gohan fight when Gohan left his attack until the last second to counter Cells attack. Gohan has no qualms about taking risks.
> 
> 
> 
> A generic hit from Thor. Most class 100's should be able to recover from that.




that wasn't a spam it was a counter attack. when i think i of spamming ki blast i am think more then 2 or 3 times.


----------



## Bender (Nov 17, 2010)

lambda said:


> Because Skaar is immortal, right?



No it's because an energy blast from any of the Z-warriors isn't anything mind-boggling nor anything to difficult to endure.


----------



## Nodonn (Nov 17, 2010)

> lol@hyperbolic time chamber.. oh i like how you making all this things up for gohan. last time i check you didn't make the thread so he can be in character. oh by the way skaar is almost always in blood lust in battle



You know the few threads that have ´Sticky:' in front of them?
They don't move for a good reason, I suggest you read them.


----------



## Heavenly King (Nov 17, 2010)

Nodonn said:


> You know the few threads that have ?Sticky:' in front of them?
> They don't move for a good reason, I suggest you read them.




:rofl:rofl


----------



## Cooler (Nov 17, 2010)

Bender said:


> No it's because an energy blast from any of the Z-warriors isn't anything mind-boggling nor anything to difficult to endure.



Has Skaar tanked many planet busters in his time?


----------



## lambda (Nov 17, 2010)

Heavenly King said:


> last time i check gohan and friends didn't spam planet busters like that at all at the planet .


 No, they don't throw it at the planet, but they use them all the same.



Bender said:


> No it's because an energy blast from any of the Z-warriors isn't anything mind-boggling nor anything to difficult to endure.


 That's complete bullshit.


----------



## Heavenly King (Nov 17, 2010)

Cooler said:


> Has Skaar tanked many planet busters in his time?



has gohan?



lambda said:


> No, they don't throw it at the planet, but they use them all the same.
> 
> That's complete bullshit.




they used them a their final attack yes but they just don't be firing off planet busters lift and right.


----------



## lambda (Nov 17, 2010)

OBD general assumption: Characters do their best to kill the other side right of the bat.

and stop the strawmen, point is that there's nothing to prove Skaar can tank even a single planetbuster.


----------



## Cooler (Nov 17, 2010)

Heavenly King said:


> has gohan?



By powercaling he can, but he's never been hit by a confirmed planet buster. Why not answer the question? Turning it round is rather pointless.




> they used them a their final attack yes but they just don't be firing off planet busters lift and right.



Kid Buu someone far weaker than Gohan can fire them off casually.


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Nov 17, 2010)

Heavenly King said:


> has gohan?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Frieza has. Gohan can easily considering he's about a thousand times more durable than he is.

Final attack? What? Kid Buu was throwing that shit left and right, effortlessly. Gohan is magnitudes more powerful than him.

Also, OBD rules state that fighters are bloodlusted unless stated otherwise, so stop bringing up that "worry about the planet herp derp" bullshit.


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 17, 2010)

at this thread.

If I didn't know any better I'd think this was fucking moviecodec. Trolling is not cool, guys.

Anyway:



lambda said:


> Or the blast didn't need Skaar to be there at all after he threw it.



That's fucking retarded. We can see it hitting Galactus on the same page as Skaar being there. What is your evidence for this ridiculous claim?



> I have no idea, but neither do you. And on what do you base their size?



The fact that we earlier see the planet breaking up into huge chunks?

Hell, here's a scan of him eating Sakaar:



As you can see, he's way bigger than the planet itself, meaning that the range shown for the OP blast in the scan is even bigger than I thought.



> And of course, that's in line with people who destroy mountains with their fists. Nice how only the high showings are inconsistencies in your mind.



Notice I said "base form".

In addition, you have the issue of momentum to deal with. Flying at hypersonic speeds and kicking or punching someone delivers a lot more force. Still nowhere near planetbusting force, though.



> You know, if your only argument is "nu huh", I'm just going to say that you conceded the point.



This is basic logic. If there is any evidence of characters being stronger than other characters in a fiction and it's not just fucking random, then powerscaling can be used to at least some extent.



> He was? Pretty sure that only one who ever said anything about his speed was himself.



And no one contradicted him. He was also chosen to be on the Ginyu Force because of his speed. That was his skill.



> I'm not saying that they can use boss rabbit carrot ray, I'm only saying what's supported by the show.



He didn't use a ray, it was physical contact. If you don't even know the fiction you're debating, you shouldn't even be posting 

And how is it supported?



> They wouldn't have hurt their opponents anymore than they did, so yes, they'd only be visual effects actually.



Not if they have actual consequences to the surroundings.

Is Hulk creating earthquakes with a stomp just a "visual effect" now?



> Are you seriously pretending those have any sort of relevance?



Of course they do, if you want to judge Gohan's speed by how he compares with other characters.



Eternal Sleep said:


> Too bad that won't happen before Gohan spams ki bombs that makes Kid Buu's planet buster look like utter shit in comparison.



Way to make shit up.



> lol @Endless Mike using the 40 ton instance and Z fighters failing to open the steel door as evidence. We have hundreds of instances, all the way since the 23rd Budokai of Z fighters smacking each other through mountains and coming out unscathed.



Actually, no. The best strength feat in the entire manga is Goku kicking Frieza through two small islands, and those kinds of feats have to take momentum and KE from flight into account. Also I take it this means you admit their strength is nowhere near planetary.



> Throughout the whole damn manga, you pick out 2 instances and try to use them as evidence that Gohan isn't Class 100? Laughable.



Learn what class 100 means, please. Hint: It's not 100 tons.



veget0010 said:


> Actually, that was built by Gero, the same guy that build machines stronger than Freeza, and that door require Vegeta to do a Big Bang Attack to open it and still didn't do that much damage.



Vegeta did a weak attack on purpose because he didn't want to hurt the androids, he wanted to fight them, remember? Also if the door was magically super strong they could have just punched through the rock around it or knocked the whole complex off of the mountain it was built on.



Cooler said:


> Yes and the lack of sonic booms mean that DB'ers are subsonic aswell right?



Except we actually have feats and calcs proving they exceed sound speed, whereas there are no examples of anything near planetary strength in the entire manga.



Eternal Sleep said:


> What the hell are you on about?
> 
> Gohan is magnitues more durable than a guy who can tank a planet busting explosion within in inch from death.



Being on the surface of an exploding planet =/= taking a planetbuster directly. The energy Frieza absorbed would only be equal to a few gigatons.

Second of all, actually prove how much more durable Gohan is.

Third of all, their durability against ki and explosions is different than their durability against physical force. 



> Skaar is definitely not going to knock him out in a hit. Or even two.



DBZ characters routinely getting injured and KO'd by punches and kicks nowhere near what casual Skaar can do say otherwise.



Eternal Sleep said:


> Vegeta has been blowing that shit up by flexing his power since the Namek Saga.
> 
> Try again.



Scouters measure ki, therefore anyone whose power is not primarily based on ki would give off a low reading, no matter how powerful they were. So in other words, it would be like "Heh, weak PL - I can take this guy. OH SHI-"



Eternal Sleep said:


> Not even close. People have been discussing the buisness of busting planets since the Sayain Saga.



You mean Vegeta making a claim while completely crazed and not in his right mind, in the same speech where he said he was the strongest in the universe, even though he knew for a fact that wasn't true  



> The second strongest fighter in the Namek Saga, who has been busting planets for god knows how long, should be able to tank one.



By that logic a nuclear submarine can tank a nuke. 



> Pell tanking a nuke however, doesn't make any sense considering he is fodder in a verse that still freaks out about island splitting.



DBZ characters "freak out" about planetbusting all the way up to the Buu saga.



lambda said:


> Thor doesn't flatten cities everytime he hits with his hammer at full strength, does he?



Because he holds back.



Eternal Sleep said:


> Cutting Resistacne =/= Blunt Trauma Resistance
> 
> Banhammer you know that



You can add ki resistance to that too.



> To cut a planet buster doesn't mean the after effect has to result in the planet being busted. Swords don't produce explosions or the like unless there supernatural in nature. Trunks sword wasn't anything special. It was a regular damn sword.



In that case, Skaar cuts Gohan open with his sword, as he is far physically stronger than Trunks 



lambda said:


> But it's not the sword that's powerful, it's Trunk. Trunk stopped the blade with his bare hands with no problem when Cooler used it.
> 
> And Trunk has more than enough power to planetbust.



Not physically, with a ki blast.



Watchman said:


> Erm, Bender, "power of a hundred million exploding suns" is pretty obviously hyperbole.



I believed the same thing but given Sentry's feats against Molecule Man and the Void revelations I've been starting to rethink that.



Thor Odinson said:


> And that helps Skaar in a fight how? He's not hitting Gohan, while Gohan can stay in the air and spam till he's tired.



FTL OP blast says otherwise.



Eternal Sleep said:


> What planet?
> 
> The fight is in the fucking hyperbolic time chamber.
> 
> ...



Skaar and his ilk can survive without oxygen. Gohan can't. Planetbusting is a bad move.



Thor Odinson said:


> You never read the Cell vs Gohan fight when Gohan left his attack until the last second to counter Cells attack. Gohan has no qualms about taking risks.



That wasn't a risk, he had plenty of time to counter it.



> A generic hit from Thor. Most class 100's should be able to recover from that.



Too bad no one in DBZ is anywhere near class 100.



Cooler said:


> Has Skaar tanked many planet busters in his time?



Has Gohan shown the ability to spam them? Or are you making shit up?



Cooler said:


> By powercaling he can, but he's never been hit by a confirmed planet buster. Why not answer the question? Turning it round is rather pointless.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wrong. Kid Buu fired off one but it was intercepted. He didn't then start firing them willy-nilly, he spent time charging a larger one.



Eternal Sleep said:


> Frieza has.



ROFLMAO

No, dude, just no. Frieza never tanked any planetbusters. He deflected an attack from Vegeta which was stated to be a planetbuster, but he didn't take the damage from it, it detonated away from him. He survived being on the surface of an exploding planet (and would have died had King Cold and his men not found him), but that's hardly the same as tanking a planetbuster head-on.



> Gohan can easily considering he's about a thousand times more durable than he is.



Show the calculations you used to arrive at these numbers, now.



> Final attack? What? Kid Buu was throwing that shit left and right, effortlessly. Gohan is magnitudes more powerful than him.



No he wasn't. Read the manga again.



> Also, OBD rules state that fighters are bloodlusted unless stated otherwise, so stop bringing up that "worry about the planet herp derp" bullshit.



He would at least worry about himself, considering he can't survive in space.


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 17, 2010)

Thor Odinson said:


> A generic hit from Thor. Most class 100's should be able to recover from that.



Thor adjusting himself for a Hulk? Damned straight it would take a class 100 to recover from that.
But I'm pretty sure you don't know what that value really means



> OBD general assumption: Characters do their best to kill the other side right of the bat.



There are five states of mind when it comes to character in the obd
In Control- The OBD'er controls them
In Character - Rarely used, it presuposes one character meets the other one somewhere along their adventures, and the confrontation is not necessarly going to happen. See PIS
CIS - They fight for some reason, but in a way that would make sense to their characters
Bloodlusted - They put aside personal morals to go out for the kill, but CIS is not necessarily off
Berserk - They put aside personal safety for the win.

Gohan with bloodlust would atempt to kill Skaar, but not at the cost of the planet he requires to survive the battle


----------



## Majinvergil (Nov 17, 2010)

Heavenly King said:


> lol@hyperbolic time chamber.. oh i like how you making all this things up for gohan. last time i check you didn't make the thread so he can be in character. oh by the way skaar is almost always in blood lust in battle



since the Location is not specified , going by OBD rules,the fight is in the Hyperbolic time chamber.


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 17, 2010)

that's an old out of date standard.
Nowadays we just use "generic Earth" or anywhere that would give them equal advantage/disadvantage


----------



## Majinvergil (Nov 17, 2010)

Endless Mike said:


> :
> ROFLMAO
> 
> No, dude, just no. Frieza never tanked any planetbusters. He deflected an attack from Vegeta which was stated to be a planetbuster, but he didn't take the damage from it, it detonated away from him. He survived being on the surface of an exploding planet (and would have died had King Cold and his men not found him), but that's hardly the same as tanking a planetbuster head-on.



He pretty much tanked it , since he was cut in half and could not do shit.


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 17, 2010)

Majinvergil said:


> He pretty much tanked it , since he was cut in half and could not do shit.



-------------------------------> (my point)


0 - (your head)


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 17, 2010)

Rule nº1 of all explosives: If you detonate it at surface, then you just wasted an explosive.


It takes alot more power to survive a planetbusting attack, then to survive on a planet exploding


----------



## ~Greed~ (Nov 17, 2010)

I think this has gone on long enough. Locking.


----------

