# Goku vs Adamantium



## CrazyMoronX (Nov 7, 2006)

So, what do you think? Can Goku break/destroy adamantium? Either with his physical power, or ki enhanced power/ki blasts/Kamehameha?

Goku at the end of DBZ, has access to SSJ3.

Alternatively, can Vegeta destroy adamantium? Gohan? All at the same ending of DBZ levels.


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## kyutofukumaki (Nov 7, 2006)

Maybe he can use the spirit bomb.


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## Suzumebachi (Nov 7, 2006)

No. I do not believe he can.


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## Keollyn (Nov 7, 2006)

I'm certain he can't do it with physical strength. 

Ki is also a likely no-no. I'm thinking of that one scene when ki just rolled off a metallic robot skin... I'm certain that robot wasn't adamantium processed.


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## Wesley (Nov 7, 2006)

Marvel Adamantium?  Has anything ever truly destroyed it?


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## Endless Mike (Nov 7, 2006)

No, I would think not. When primary adamantium is destroyed, it is almost always due to molecular tampering and subatomic particle rearrangement powers.

With brute force it's nearly impossible, the only time that primary adamantium has ever been destroyed by brute force I think was a blast from the Dark Phoenix, which is a powerful cosmic entity.


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## Hamaru (Nov 7, 2006)

I dont see how he could.


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## Gunners (Nov 7, 2006)

No he couldn't do it. I beleive the metal can't be broken. If it was said in a weak verse then my opinion would change, but in marvel it has characters who have more brute strength than the dbz verse so snapping it in a normal fascion isn't going to be possible.


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## Slips (Nov 7, 2006)

Break it no

I seem to recall Hulk bending it which seems to be as good as it gets


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## Kisame. (Nov 7, 2006)

no way in hell goku can beat it.


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## jplaya2023 (Nov 7, 2006)

CrazyMoronX said:


> So, what do you think? Can Goku break/destroy adamantium? Either with his physical power, or ki enhanced power/ki blasts/Kamehameha?
> 
> Goku at the end of DBZ, has access to SSJ3.
> 
> Alternatively, can Vegeta destroy adamantium? Gohan? All at the same ending of DBZ levels.



gohan was able to pull out the Zed sword in which the ki's were never able to do as a ssj1. 

I beleive they could break and destroy it, with either a concentrated ki blast, or using their physical strength to bend and break it. 

Remember, they can yield planet, solar system destroying blast at an instant when enough ki is gathered. I hardly believe adamantium is more durable than a planet or solar system.


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## Shadow Replication 1480 (Nov 7, 2006)

Uh... Goku < Hulk in strength. He ain't breaking shit.


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## jplaya2023 (Nov 7, 2006)

ShadowReplication1480 said:


> Uh... Goku < Hulk in strength. He ain't breaking shit.



what goku lacks in physical strength, he more than makes up for it by channeling his ki throughout his body, something hulk cant do.


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## Shadow Replication 1480 (Nov 7, 2006)

Goku can channel all the ki he wants, he doesn't have enough to make him stronger than Hulk.


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## jplaya2023 (Nov 7, 2006)

ShadowReplication1480 said:


> Goku can channel all the ki he wants, he doesn't have enough to make him stronger than Hulk.



Right, because goku cant increment his strength by a factor of X10(Oozaru) or by X25 (SSJ) multiplied out over 3 transformations. Oh wait he can. 

While hulk myseriously gets stronger than madder he gets, which is something proved as bullocks


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## Gunners (Nov 7, 2006)

Goku is not going to break this metal plain and simple. In the Marvel universe there are people much stronger than Goku who fail to destroy adimantium. Someone said hulk managed to bend it, not even break it bend it.

It probably has something to with how the metal is actually formed and held together to be honest I don't know. I just know Goku hasn't displayed the strength necissary to snap it.


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## jplaya2023 (Nov 7, 2006)

gunners said:


> Goku is not going to break this metal plain and simple. In the Marvel universe there are people much stronger than Goku who fail to destroy adimantium. Someone said hulk managed to bend it, not even break it bend it.
> 
> It probably has something to with how the metal is actually formed and held together to be honest I don't know. I just know Goku hasn't displayed the strength necissary to snap it.



there has never been an instance in Z where goku would have to snap or bend anything, so to automatically assume he couldnt is stupid in my canon opinion.


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## tardaime (Nov 7, 2006)

How they can make anything out of it then?


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## SoulTaker (Nov 7, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:


> there has never been an instance in Z where goku would have to snap or bend anything, so to automatically assume he couldnt is stupid in my canon opinion.



In his base he couldn't deal with 40 tons.He can increase a billion fold and he won't get to the Hulk in terms of brute stregnth.Hell,the Hulk destroyed a mass two times the size of Earth with brute stregnth alone.He also held up up an 150 billion ton mountain,and not even he could break adamantium.


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## jplaya2023 (Nov 7, 2006)

SoulTaker540 said:


> In his base he couldn't deal with 40 tons.He can increase a billion fold and he won't get to the Hulk in terms of brute stregnth.Hell,the Hulk destroyed a mass two times the size of Earth with brute stregnth alone.He also held up up an 150 billion ton mountain,and not even he could break adamantium.




the 40 tons thing is a plothole based on what he accomplished earlier in the series. I think AT stopped caring about making things clear at the end of the frieza saga. 

And according to the hulk's mythical story the madder he gets the stronger he gets, eventually he can be able to bend the adamantium because even it has its breaking point. 

Hell the Zed sword(which was the hardest sword in the universe) was broken by the vibranuim rock goku threw at gohan


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## Id (Nov 7, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:


> the 40 tons thing is a plothole based on what he accomplished earlier in the series. I think AT stopped caring about making things clear at the end of the frieza saga.
> 
> And according to the hulk's mythical story the madder he gets the stronger he gets, eventually he can be able to bend the adamantium because even it has its breaking point.
> 
> Hell the Zed sword(which was the hardest sword in the universe) was broken by the vibranuim rock goku threw at gohan



Point is Hulk ultra pissed could only bend it.
Goku or anyone in DBZ would break their arms attempting to break Ada.
QFT?my shit is all facts and canons.


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## SoulTaker (Nov 7, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:


> the 40 tons thing is a plothole based on what he accomplished earlier in the series. I think AT stopped caring about making things clear at the end of the frieza saga.



Everything you don't like can't be dismissed as a plot hole.This is just like when you called the fights from the Cell saga on a plot hole because outside of short bursts the battles were visible.It happenned and there is nothing previously to mean it didn't happen.Especially when you consider DB only has one author so anything he presents is law.



			
				jplaya2023 said:
			
		

> And according to the hulk's mythical story the madder he gets the stronger he gets, eventually he can be able to bend the adamantium because even it has its breaking point.



Well he didn't break it,but of course he probably could do it if he got mad enough.Still though a weaker version held up an 150 billion ton mountain.



			
				jplaya2023 said:
			
		

> Hell the Zed sword(which was the hardest sword in the universe) was broken by the vibranuim rock goku threw at gohan



What bearing does that have on the situation at hand.All it means is that Keshim is harder than the Zed sword,not that Goku throwing it had anything to do with it.If Krillin threw it then it would have broke as well.


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## Amatsu (Nov 7, 2006)

Oh yeah well Superman could break Adamantium with his brain...  

Just joking... no way anyone could break that.


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## Gunners (Nov 7, 2006)

Whilst I think Goku can lift far more than 40 tons, I don't think he can break admantium, Hulk has greater strength that Goku, and he can only bend it. From what I have seen in the manga I beleive Goku si capable of a lot of things but I don't think he is capable of bending adimantium.

The alloy, I think it is an alloy anyway, can not be broken. In the marvel verse characters who have more raw strength than Goku can not bust it, so from that I conclude that he would fail in breaking it.



> there has never been an instance in Z where goku would have to snap or bend anything, so to automatically assume he couldnt is stupid in my canon opinion.


There has never been an instance where a todler has to snap an 14 inch thick Iron bar, so it is possible for him to do so.

In DB Goku has never displayed anything which suggest he has the same brute force as hulk, he is strong I beleive but he isn't on Hulks level. Hulk can not break adimantium. Goku who is weaker than Hulk can not break adimantium.


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## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Nov 7, 2006)

Adamantium took a hit from Thor's hammer (which has killed gods) and it barely made a dent. Goku cant do shit


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## Id (Nov 7, 2006)

In other words, Goku cant even dream of breaking Adamantium….let alone break it awake, alive, and in the real world.


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## Shidoshi (Nov 7, 2006)

I don't ever remember Hulk breaking True (Primary) Adamantium... I believe any instance where that happened was retconned to be Secondary Adamantium (less durable, but far cheaper to mass produce).

Gokuu didn't even seem able to break the solid cube of Ketchin Alloy (I would presume the DBU's version of Adamantium), and the Zed Sword was never stated to be the made of the strongest metal in existence.  It was just touted as "the most powerful sword"...but Kaioshin didn't know why.


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## Sasori (Nov 7, 2006)

Curious to know:

Can Supes' heat ray destroy adamantium?


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## Kisame. (Nov 7, 2006)

> Can Supes' heat ray destroy adamantium?


 
Nope and not the same universe.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 7, 2006)

Sasori said:


> Curious to know:
> 
> Can Supes' heat ray destroy adamantium?



Get with the times Alreadii


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## EvilMoogle (Nov 7, 2006)

Assuming we're talking about primary adamantium (the stuff of Wolverine's skeleton).

Dent/bend?  Yes, by the end of DBZ I would think the heavy hitters could all manage it.

Destroy?  @#@$ no.

Secondary adamantium they could clearly destroy without much effort.


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## mustang (Nov 7, 2006)

Didn't AOA Cyclops blasted off AOA Wolverine's/Weapon X's left hand ?


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## EvilMoogle (Nov 7, 2006)

mustang said:


> Didn't AOA Cyclops blasted off AOA Wolverine's/Weapon X's left hand ?



True, the story was his hand was blasted off at the joint.

So take your pick: Either AOA Wolverine didn't have adamantium plated joints, or AOA Wolverine wasn't plated with primary adamantium.


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## Hagen (Nov 7, 2006)

Kazuma the Shell Bullet said:


> Adamantium took a hit from Thor's hammer (which has killed gods) and it barely made a dent. Goku cant do shit


And that wasn't your average Thor, it was king thor with the odinforce.



> Can Supes' heat ray destroy adamantium?


No way in hell


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## Shidoshi (Nov 7, 2006)

EvilMoogle said:


> True, the story was his hand was blasted off at the joint.
> 
> So take your pick: Either AOA Wolverine didn't have adamantium plated joints, or AOA Wolverine wasn't plated with primary adamantium.


A joint is only where two bones meet.  If Wolverine's joints were covered in adamantium, he'd be unalbe to move.

Prelate Summer's blasting off his hand was just separating the bones where they "meet".  It doesn't negate how durable adamantium is.


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## jplaya2023 (Nov 7, 2006)

SoulTaker540 said:


> Everything you don't like can't be dismissed as a plot hole.This is just like when you called the fights from the Cell saga on a plot hole because outside of short bursts the battles were visible.It happenned and there is nothing previously to mean it didn't happen.Especially when you consider DB only has one author so anything he presents is law.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




canon is they could break the strongest metals in the Z universe so its conceiavble they can do the same in marvel.


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## Hagen (Nov 7, 2006)

EvilMoogle said:


> True, the story was his hand was blasted off at the joint.
> 
> So take your pick: Either AOA Wolverine didn't have adamantium plated joints, or AOA Wolverine wasn't plated with primary adamantium.


Wolverine's bones cant be broken, but they can be ¨separated¨, the joints are not covered by adamatium, but they are still extremely harder to break than normal joints.


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## jplaya2023 (Nov 7, 2006)

gunners said:


> There has never been an instance where a todler has to snap an 14 inch thick Iron bar, so it is possible for him to do so.



Your trying to apply real life physics to fiction, please stop


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## ez (Nov 7, 2006)

if ki = physical strength

dbz = full of planet busters

dbz = full of people who can carry planets zomg


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## jplaya2023 (Nov 7, 2006)

ezxx said:


> if ki = physical strength
> 
> dbz = full of planet busters
> 
> dbz = full of people who can carry planets zomg



you can use your ki to channel ki blast, fly, or make yourself stronger and faster. 

in DBZ ki is basically your life force, like chakra is in naruto.


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## EvilMoogle (Nov 7, 2006)

Shidoshi said:


> A joint is only where two bones meet.  If Wolverine's joints were covered in adamantium, he'd be unalbe to move.



In a ball and socket joint if you coat the joints properly they'll continue to move and be unable to dislocate them without bending the adamantium.



```
───┐  ┌──
  ├───┤
───┘  └──
```

If they didn't work this way in 616 then when Wolverine got toasted by Nitro, his body would have fallen apart.  Unless you think the explosion wasn't powerful enough to dislocate any bones.


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## ez (Nov 7, 2006)

i forgot one part on my previous post

dbz then is as strong as hulk(if not stronger~) theoretically T_T

that is if ki can be changed into physical strength

if they can destroy "5.972 sextillion (1,000 trillion) metric tons. That's 5,972,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons!" - weight of earth - if they can generate enough energy to destroy it, they sure as hell should be able to lift it


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## Shidoshi (Nov 7, 2006)

EvilMoogle said:


> In a ball and socket joint if you coat the joints properly they'll continue to move and be unable to dislocate them without bending the adamantium.
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


That's not how the metatarsals join the wrist in the humanoid arm, though...


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## EvilMoogle (Nov 7, 2006)

Shidoshi said:


> That's not how the metatarsals join the wrist in the humanoid arm, though...


In a normal human wrist, you're correct.

However the fact remains that when Wolverine's bones were plated they must have made changes to his joints.

Look at Nitro's blasting of Wolverine:


If his bones were just plated with no joint considerations made, then his hands would have fallen apart (not to mention his spine).  Either when he got his adamantium back Apoc thought of this and made sure it was done right, or Wolverine's joints are just built different than other humans.


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## ZergKage (Nov 7, 2006)

Look i'm not sure what has been said here but the second time Wolverine was given adamantium (by Apoc) i'm pretty sure they cleared up the reason with why wolverine can move and such and still have everything covered in adamantuim, Celestial tech tampering or something.


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## SoulTaker (Nov 7, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:


> use your brain goku lifting feats early in the series show us him struggling to lift 40 tons is canon fodder. The fight with cell had plotholes, if u think normal humans could fathon when they couldnt fathon inDB then your being an idiot



What lifting feats,pushing large boulders and holding up Bulma's car?Those were not more than 40 tons.The 40 tons thing happened,and humans watching them happened.Because you don't like it does not make it a plothole.Now in short bursts they're beyond human perception but outside of that they're not.Me,GWolf,and even Phenom all hashed that out.They don't fight at said super speeds all the time,and when they don't they're combat is not beyond that of baseline humans.





jplaya2023 said:


> the madder hulk get the stronger he gets so he could break it eventually correct? And he didnt hold up a 150billion ton mountain he simply braced it, he didnt pick it up and lift it on his shoulders



Seeing as how he potentially has an infinite amount of stregnth,yes he could eventually.But that could take a while.No he held up 150 billion tons of mountain.It was dropped on top of them by Molecule Man,now if he wasn't holding it up why didn't it squish him or the other heroes?




jplaya2023 said:


> canon is they could break the strongest metals in the Z universe so its conceiavble they can do the same in marvel.



That makes no sense.First of all they never broke Keshim,and the only reason the Z Sword broke was because Keshim was harder.


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## Gohan (Nov 7, 2006)

SoulTaker540 said:


> In his base he couldn't deal with 40 tons.He can increase a billion fold and he won't get to the Hulk in terms of brute stregnth.Hell,the Hulk destroyed a mass two times the size of Earth with brute stregnth alone.He also held up up an 150 billion ton mountain,and not even he could break adamantium.



Sure you could use that as evidence, but i could use other stuff as evidence too. Vegeta was able to destroy the earth with one blast when he first came to earth. He had a power level of around 18, 000. From wilk "Flying straight up into the air, Vegeta powers up and unleashes his Galick Gun at Goku and the earth. Unable to move for fear of letting the blast hit the earth, Goku charges up to Kaiō-ken x3 again and launches his own Kamehameha at Vegeta.". Also before that they have already claimed that they could blow up the earth, just incase you dont believe wilkepedia.

Now Vegeta greatly increased his level after fighting goku, then stronger after Dodoria, then stronger after Zarbon, then stronger after Recoomb. He then trained and became much much stronger after the Freeza saga. Then he became a super sayain increasing his level to a point where some people say it makes them 50 times stronger, including their energy blast. Then he becomes stronger in hyperbolic time chamber reaching a new stage of SSJ. After all that his Ki his _*strongest*_ attack was only able to get cell's attention, whom Gohan at SSJ2 managed to do this to. 

Edit Profile Picture

He literally smashed through cells body unlike the strongest blast from Vegeta that at that stage could probably destroy any planet in the solar system wasn't even able to put a dent in cell. So by that logic, Gohan's punching force at SSJ2 should have enough power to destroy any planet in the solar system...

Now we are talking about goku at SSJ3 who is on a whole other level from SSJ2 Gohan. 

There are discrepancies in every manga/comic. Think about it, if the hulk is as strong as you say then EVEN if cap America was using pressure points, there is no way he should of gotten knocked down like that. If someone who can lift 40 billion tonnes and has legs strong enough to support that, for someone who cannot even lift a tonne hitting pressure points should not work, its like a fly trying to knock you down with pressure points, you shouldn't even be able to feel it. tell me if i tap your pressure points will you get knocked down? that should be how it felt like to the hulk...if capt america tried to do that to SSJ2 Gohan he wouldnt even move. Gohan got punched in the face by cell and barely moved. And cell's punches hurt more than Ki blastes that could destroy the earth or at the very least the moon...

But i dunno, despite all this Adamantium does seem pretty unbreakable... So i guess Adamantium wins, just pointing out something.


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## Gohan (Nov 7, 2006)

SoulTaker540 said:


> .Now in short bursts they're beyond human perception but outside of that they're not.Me,GWolf,and even Phenom all hashed that out.They don't fight at said super speeds all the time,and when they don't they're combat is not beyond that of baseline humans.



No its not short bursts, they are always fighting at super speeds. The reason normal people could see them in Db and not during cell fight is because their dodging and punches/kicks were moving at super speeds but their body was stationary for a set amount of time long enough for the human to see.

Just imagine me and you punching and dodging at super speeds but all at the same spot. Normal people could still see us just not our punches.


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## Gohan (Nov 7, 2006)

ezxx said:


> i forgot one part on my previous post
> 
> dbz then is as strong as hulk(if not stronger~) theoretically T_T
> 
> ...



Yeh thats what i thought too. Theoretically if they have enough ki to destroy the earth they should have enough energy to lift it. I mean doesn't their strength/speed increase with thier ki? However they always seem to try so hard when lifting the smallest things comparable to their ki...


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## SoulTaker (Nov 7, 2006)

Gaara_of_the_sand_ said:


> Sure you could use that as evidence, but i could use other stuff as evidence too. Vegeta was able to destroy the earth with one blast when he first came to earth. He had a power level of around 18, 000. From wilk "Flying straight up into the air, Vegeta powers up and unleashes his Galick Gun at Goku and the earth. Unable to move for fear of letting the blast hit the earth, Goku charges up to Kai?-ken x3 again and launches his own Kamehameha at Vegeta.". Also before that they have already claimed that they could blow up the earth, just incase you dont believe wilkepedia.



I don't believe Wikipedia or Vegeta.We've been over this issue before and it is obvious that Vegeta was having an emotional breakdown over his inferiority to the low-class warrior,Goku.And Goku even had doubts that Vegeta's blast was going to destroy Earth he said something along the lines of,"I can't gamble on it".And never once was planet busting power ever claimed,and before you try to use the Roshi feat,the Earth is several magnitudes bigger than the Moon.Furthermore it doesn't seem as if anyone was debating if Goku could destroy adamantium with ki,but physical stregnth.



Gaara_of_the_sand_ said:


> Now Vegeta greatly increased his level after fighting goku, then stronger after Dodoria, then stronger after Zarbon, then stronger after Recoomb. He then trained and became much much stronger after the Freeza saga. Then he became a super sayain increasing his level to a point where some people say it makes them 50 times stronger, including their energy blast. Then he becomes stronger in hyperbolic time chamber reaching a new stage of SSJ. After all that his Ki his _*strongest*_ attack was only able to get cell's attention, whom Gohan at SSJ2 managed to do this to.
> 
> Edit Profile Picture



I really fail to see the connection your trying to draw to adamantium.All you're saying is that DBZ characters get stronger,and FYI after the RoSaT and attaining a new stage of SSJ he was able to summon enough power to blast away half of Cell's body.



Gaara_of_the_sand_ said:


> He literally smashed through cells body unlike the strongest blast from Vegeta that at that stage could probably destroy any planet in the solar system wasn't even able to put a dent in cell. So by that logic, Gohan's punching force at SSJ2 should have enough power to destroy any planet in the solar system...
> 
> Now we are talking about goku at SSJ3 who is on a whole other level from SSJ2 Gohan.



What are you talking about,Vegeta's strongest blast destroyed half of Cell's body the only reason Cell is still around is because he has Piccolo's regeneration.There was a dent in Cell,so saying that the punching force of Gohan is beyond the Final Flash is just wrong.If it really was then he would have punched Cell's head off.



Gaara_of_the_sand_ said:


> There are discrepancies in every manga/comic. Think about it, if the hulk is as strong as you say then EVEN if cap America was using pressure points, there is no way he should of gotten knocked down like that. If someone who can lift 40 billion tonnes and has legs strong enough to support that, for someone who cannot even lift a tonne hitting pressure points should not work, its like a fly trying to knock you down with pressure points, you shouldn't even be able to feel it. tell me if i tap your pressure points will you get knocked down? that should be how it felt like to the hulk...if capt america tried to do that to SSJ2 Gohan he wouldnt even move. Gohan got punched in the face by cell and barely moved. And cell's punches hurt more than Ki blastes that could destroy the earth or at the very least the moon...



Of course there are discrepancies,there are different writers for comics.We don't just take the lowest showing of a character and have that be the interpretation of said character in fights.Now the same could be said about high showings,but it's not Hulk has done one crazy feat of stregnth he has a couple of them.The whole dark cosmos incident,the 150 billion ton mountain, the destruction of a planetoid two times the size of earth,and creating forces comparable to class 5 hurricanes with his thunder claps.And do you have any proof that Cell's punches hurt more than ki blast that can destroy Earth,because really that just sounds dumb.



Gaara_of_the_sand_ said:


> No its not short bursts, they are always fighting at super speeds. The reason normal people could see them in Db and not during cell fight is because their dodging and punches/kicks were moving at super speeds but their body was stationary for a set amount of time long enough for the human to see.
> 
> Just imagine me and you punching and dodging at super speeds but all at the same spot. Normal people could still see us just not our punches.



No they're not,if they were then humans wouldn't be able to comment on how close or great the fight between Cell and Goku was.Mr.Satan wouldn't have talked about how realistic the fight between SSJ3 Goku and Kid Buu were.

Just imagine me and you punching and dodging,then we disappear for a couple of seconds then reappear punching and kicking.People could see the parts of fight,but not the short bursts.


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## Amatsu (Nov 7, 2006)

You know I just thought of something weird but... if there was a person or giant robot made of pure Marvel adamantium would he be totally unstoppable?

I don't mean like Wolverine... I'm talking an entire body, skeleton, etc. made of adamantium.


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## Shidoshi (Nov 7, 2006)

Aethos said:


> You know I just thought of something weird but... if there was a person or giant robot made of pure Marvel adamantium would he be totally unstoppable?
> 
> I don't mean like Wolverine... I'm talking an entire body, skeleton, etc. made of adamantium.


The closest they ever came to that was Ultron...he had bodies made of adamantium (mostly Secondary Adamantium, though, so his body was able to be destroyed with sufficient force).

Although, adamantium isn't *totally* impervious, it's still suceptible to magnetic and molecular rearranging even after hardening.


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## EvilMoogle (Nov 7, 2006)

Aethos said:


> You know I just thought of something weird but... if there was a person or giant robot made of pure Marvel adamantium would he be totally unstoppable?



One of the Ultron incarnations was made of Adamantium.  Dunno if it was retconned to be secondary Adamantium or not.  Also don't know how they managed to destroy this Ultron.

In theory though the robot would still be vunerable to some attacks (heat, electrical), and anything that transfers momentum could break the parts inside, just the outer shell would be indestructable (unless you mean the circutry and whatnot were made of pure adamantium, but I don't think that would work).

Absorbing Man probably has become adamantium from time to time as well, and in theory he should be pretty impossible to deal with until it wears off.  No instances of this come to mind either though.


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## Amatsu (Nov 7, 2006)

EvilMoogle said:


> One of the Ultron incarnations was made of Adamantium.  Dunno if it was retconned to be secondary Adamantium or not.  Also don't know how they managed to destroy this Ultron.
> 
> In theory though the robot would still be vunerable to some attacks (heat, electrical), and anything that transfers momentum could break the parts inside, just the outer shell would be indestructable (unless you mean the circutry and whatnot were made of pure adamantium, but I don't think that would work).
> 
> Absorbing Man probably has become adamantium from time to time as well, and in theory he should be pretty impossible to deal with until it wears off.  No instances of this come to mind either though.



Hmmm well I can't complain if a robot made of it could take sustantial damage but what if there was like an... Adamantium man?


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## tl2e3le4f (Nov 7, 2006)

goku cant do shit to it


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## Gohan (Nov 7, 2006)

SoulTaker540 said:


> I don't believe Wikipedia or Vegeta.We've been over this issue before and it is obvious that Vegeta was having an emotional breakdown over his inferiority to the low-class warrior,Goku.And Goku even had doubts that Vegeta's blast was going to destroy Earth he said something along the lines of,"I can't gamble on it".And never once was planet busting power ever claimed,and before you try to use the Roshi feat,the Earth is several magnitudes bigger than the Moon.Furthermore it doesn't seem as if anyone was debating if Goku could destroy adamantium with ki,but physical stregnth.



You dont have to believe wilkepedia, but common stuff such as DBZ and manga wilkepedia has shown to be more knowledgeable and correct than alot of other sources. Just because it can be edited and there has been some wrong information in the past, doesn't necessarily make it all wrong, i for one know that most of the info on dbz in wilk is correct.

Planet busing power was claimed several times. Freeza claimed to have destroyed the Saiyan planet with one finger. Cell was scared that Goku's Kamaehamaeha would destroy the earth. 

*Comp Ace* 

Kid Buu destroyed the earth with one blast. 

Death-Notes

Vegeta claimed that SSJ3 goku full power could destroy kid buu in an instant. 

Link removed

So you saying that never once was the planet busting power never claimed shows quite a biased statement considering how much direct proof as well as indirect proof has come up saying how they are at least planet busters by the end of Freeza saga, even if you choose to ignore Vegeta's claim because he was "stressed" out.

Roshi's power level was like 150 when he blew up the moon. The moon is 1/50 Earth's volume and 1/80 Earth's mass. Now We know that Goku and Vegeta get much much stronger than Roshi. If you gonna calculate power level linearly then even then it still holds true. 50 * 150 =  7500 and 150 * 80 = 12000 which means Vegeta's statement doesn't seem to illogical. And i mean by goku before he was a SSJ and before he was healed to fight freeza already had a power level of 180, 000. So even if you dount count it linearly im sure goku could destroy earth with that kind of ki.

And actually maybe you should recheck the argument, the original post said that if goku could destroy it with either Ki OR physical strength.




SoulTaker540 said:


> I really fail to see the connection your trying to draw to adamantium.All you're saying is that DBZ characters get stronger,and FYI after the RoSaT and attaining a new stage of SSJ he was able to summon enough power to blast away half of Cell's body.



You fail to see the connection? well ok ill explain it to you. My point was Vegeta gets much much much much much stronger than during the Saiyan saga where he already claimed to have enough ki to destroy the earth. And with all this Ki could barely dent Cell in which Gohan smashed through cell's body with one punch. So my point was that theoritically Gohan's punches should contain more force that a planet destroying ki attack.

Show me a scan of Vegeta blasting away half of super perfect cell's body. I showed you a scan of him barely denting Cell, just able to get his attention when he was in the energy battle with Gohan.







SoulTaker540 said:


> What are you talking about,Vegeta's strongest blast destroyed half of Cell's body the only reason Cell is still around is because he has Piccolo's regeneration.There was a dent in Cell,so saying that the punching force of Gohan is beyond the Final Flash is just wrong.If it really was then he would have punched Cell's head off.



Vegeta's final flash has never torn half of super pefect cells body off. Also how is claiming SSJ2 gohan's punch to have a greater force than Final Flash wrong? Gohan was able to hurt Cell to the point where he deformed with one punch, while Vegeta's final flash attack barely dented cell.




SoulTaker540 said:


> Of course there are discrepancies,there are different writers for comics.We don't just take the lowest showing of a character and have that be the interpretation of said character in fights.Now the same could be said about high showings,but it's not Hulk has done one crazy feat of stregnth he has a couple of them.The whole dark cosmos incident,the 150 billion ton mountain, the destruction of a planetoid two times the size of earth,and creating forces comparable to class 5 hurricanes with his thunder claps.And do you have any proof that Cell's punches hurt more than ki blast that can destroy Earth,because really that just sounds dumb.



Comic's shows feats while DBZ shows power levels and beating people who are strongest in universe etc etc. 

Freeza's finger blast which could destroy planets is like nothing to Vegeta in cell saga, who cell could hurt and kill Vegeta with his punches. Havnt you realised? Once a person reaches a another level in terms of power level a blast from a weaker person doesnt even scratch them. Its been shown many many times that this is the case.







SoulTaker540 said:


> No they're not,if they were then humans wouldn't be able to comment on how close or great the fight between Cell and Goku was.Mr.Satan wouldn't have talked about how realistic the fight between SSJ3 Goku and Kid Buu were.
> 
> Just imagine me and you punching and dodging,then we disappear for a couple of seconds then reappear punching and kicking.People could see the parts of fight,but not the short bursts.




What do you mean how close or great the fight was? Dude its quite obvious when someone is winning or losing, when they get knocked down or flown through rocks isnt it obvious whos winning? And they comment on how great the fight was because of the super speeds they were punching and dodging at to the point where you cant see their punches/kicks and once in a while sunpo style attacks. 

What are you talking about realistic? Nothing was realstic to Mr Satan it was all a trick. Everytime he saw them fly/something getting blasted dissapearing they were all "tricks". 

Your last example is wrong, me and you punching does not equate to me and you punching at super speeds. If me and you punched at super speeds but were stationary and only dissapearing once in a while normal people can still see us, but not where we are punching/ our punches, and when we dissapear.

BTW never said he could break Adamantium, im just saying some people are saying wrong stuff about DBZ which i must clarify.


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## EvilMoogle (Nov 7, 2006)

Aethos said:


> Hmmm well I can't complain if a robot made of it could take sustantial damage but what if there was like an... Adamantium man?



Absorbing Man's power lets him absorb the properties of things he touches.  I'm pretty sure he's absorbed Adamantium at some point in time, but I don't remember where I read that.  You'd think he'd find a block of it to carry around with him all the time 

In theory he should be just about invincible as long as he can stay in that form.  So presumably if you made some sort of Adamantium Golem or Elemental or something it would be essentially invincible as well (though magical creations could probably be de-magiced).

In theory any of the above should be impossible to kill with force (be it physical or elemental), though knocking them into the depths of space would always work


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## Endless Mike (Nov 8, 2006)

tardaime said:


> How they can make anything out of it then?



When it is being made, it starts in a molten form. In that form, it is a liquid and can be shaped into a mold. It doesn't become unbreakable until it cools down and solidifies, after which point it does not melt again.


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## ez (Nov 8, 2006)

when dbz warriors kill villans or blow up planets they destroy every part of that planet/person including the smallest make-up you can think of (eg. atoms) so why can't they 'atomize' adamantium with a powerful enough ki blast? or is it invulnerable to any sort of tampering and is impervious to any sort of damage (eg. denting, bending, etc.)


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## Endless Mike (Nov 8, 2006)

Because that attack is simply brute force, it takes way more brute force than DBZ characters have to hurt adamantium.


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## ez (Nov 8, 2006)

how much force is necessary then? if planet destroying blasts aren't enough i wonder what is

and dont say "cosmic" i want like a clear defintion not that ambiguous 'more power is needed' nonsense. They have to generate enough force to destroy a galaxy or is more force needed?


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## Endless Mike (Nov 8, 2006)

The only time that I know of that Primary Adamantium was destroyed by brute force is when Wolverine's skeleton was vaporized by a blast from Dark Phoenix.


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## ez (Nov 8, 2006)

could dark phoenix destroy a planet with that move or is her technique purely psychic 

i still have yet to see adamantium take on a planet busting attack

it's supposed to be invulnerable to direct physical attacks(maybe more) but the same shouldn't be assumed when we're talking about energy based attacks(unless you have a scan of him defending against a planet busting attack or equivalent)


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## Sasori (Nov 8, 2006)

Forte.EXE said:


> Get with the times Alreadii


You didn't answer me 



Kisame said:


> Nope and not the same universe.


Why not, and what does not being in the same universe have anything to do with anything ?

DBZ is not in the same universe as Marvel Adamantium...whats ur point xD??



Locard said:


> No way in hell


Why is this?

Can someone either explain or link me to where i can find the way the heat vision works?

And why it would not work on Adamantium?


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## Endless Mike (Nov 8, 2006)

Dark Phoenix is a galaxy destroyer at full power, and the Phoenix Force itself is beyond that.


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## TheHolyDarkness (Nov 8, 2006)

If Goku punched it, it would go flying across to another continent...

...But it'd still be in one piece.

As for the effect of a planet-buster energy blast on a hypothetical planet with an Adamantium Core (or equivalent): Please refer to Kid Buu's attempt to obliterate the Kai planet.

~TheHolyDarkness Out~


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## Gohan (Nov 8, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> When it is being made, it starts in a molten form. In that form, it is a liquid and can be shaped into a mold. It doesn't become unbreakable until it cools down and solidifies, after which point it does not melt again.



But if it starts in molten form then the place where Adamantium is found must have a temperature hot enough for it to start/remain in molten form. You find water in solid form in places that have low temperature, you find rocks in molten form in volcanos where the temperature is hot enough for it to exist in that form. 

Metals can be in molten form only if they are at a certain temperature, and that temperature is the required temperature to melt the metal. So if it starts in molten form then even if it solidifies it should be able become molten again at that temperature, or else how could it ever exist in molten form in the first place. Because if that energy wasnt enough to melt it then it wouldn't be able to exist in molten form in the first place.


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## Orion (Nov 8, 2006)

^^its a fictional metal thats how.


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## Suzumebachi (Nov 8, 2006)

^It does NOT melt again.


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## Gohan (Nov 8, 2006)

TheHolyDarkness said:


> If Goku punched it, it would go flying across to another continent...
> 
> ...But it'd still be in one piece.
> 
> ...



Kid buu never tried to obliterate the Kai's planet. Doesn't show him charging up for a large beam attack at all like he did to the earth. And how do you know Kai's planet was more resistant to damage/stronger core.


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## Gohan (Nov 8, 2006)

Suzumebachi said:


> ^It does NOT melt again.



Yes, but then how did it exist in molten form in the first place if it cannot be melted again.

I mean do they have a reason for why it cant be melted again? 

If not then w/e its fiction so i accept it.


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## Wesley (Nov 8, 2006)

Well I think that's how some alloys work.  Even if their component metals have different melting points, when heated to a certain temperature and mixed in cooled and treated in a certain way the new material is radically different then what it was originally made of.

I'm not expert though.


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## Gohan (Nov 8, 2006)

Wesley said:


> Well I think that's how some alloys work.  Even if their component metals have different melting points, when heated to a certain temperature and mixed in cooled and treated in a certain way the new material is radically different then what it was originally made of.
> 
> I'm not expert though.



yeh i agree with you except, didnt mike say it was found in molten form, as in adamantium by itself?


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## Endless Mike (Nov 9, 2006)

Gaara_of_the_sand_ said:


> But if it starts in molten form then the place where Adamantium is found must have a temperature hot enough for it to start/remain in molten form. You find water in solid form in places that have low temperature, you find rocks in molten form in volcanos where the temperature is hot enough for it to exist in that form.
> 
> Metals can be in molten form only if they are at a certain temperature, and that temperature is the required temperature to melt the metal. So if it starts in molten form then even if it solidifies it should be able become molten again at that temperature, or else how could it ever exist in molten form in the first place. Because if that energy wasnt enough to melt it then it wouldn't be able to exist in molten form in the first place.



It's not "found", it's created as an alloy of several metal compounds which is a carefully guarded secret by the government. Once it cools, it doesn't melt again. It doesn't even conduct heat at all.


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Nov 10, 2006)

CrazyMoronX said:


> So, what do you think? Can Goku break/destroy adamantium? Either with his physical power, or ki enhanced power/ki blasts/Kamehameha?
> 
> Goku at the end of DBZ, has access to SSJ3.
> 
> Alternatively, can Vegeta destroy adamantium? Gohan? All at the same ending of DBZ levels.



Kiezan does the trick.


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## Shuntensatsu (Nov 10, 2006)

Goku could destroy adamantium with ease.  The guy could destroy a planet by urinating on it if he wanted to.  DBZ characters are so much more powerful than anything else comparing it to things in other universes is pretty ridiculous.


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## Endless Mike (Nov 10, 2006)

Shuntensatsu said:


> Goku could destroy adamantium with ease.  The guy could destroy a planet by urinating on it if he wanted to.  DBZ characters are so much more powerful than anything else comparing it to things in other universes is pretty ridiculous.



Um, wrong. DBZ characters have never demonstrated anything near what is required to destroy primary adamantium.


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## SoulTaker (Nov 10, 2006)

Gaara_of_the_sand_ said:


> You dont have to believe wilkepedia, but common stuff such as DBZ and manga wilkepedia has shown to be more knowledgeable and correct than alot of other sources. Just because it can be edited and there has been some wrong information in the past, doesn't necessarily make it all wrong, i for one know that most of the info on dbz in wilk is correct.
> 
> Planet busing power was claimed several times. Freeza claimed to have destroyed the Saiyan planet with one finger. Cell was scared that Goku's Kamaehamaeha would destroy the earth.
> 
> ...



Wikipedia has been proven wrong in a lot of instances,it even has filler events in its write ups.Furthermore I didn't say planet busting power was never claimed I said that Vegeta was having a breakdown.Planet busting power is obvious throughout DBZ especially considering Kid Buu destroyed Earth.



Gaara_of_the_sand_ said:


> Roshi's power level was like 150 when he blew up the moon. The moon is 1/50 Earth's volume and 1/80 Earth's mass. Now We know that Goku and Vegeta get much much stronger than Roshi. If you gonna calculate power level linearly then even then it still holds true. 50 * 150 =  7500 and 150 * 80 = 12000 which means Vegeta's statement doesn't seem to illogical. And i mean by goku before he was a SSJ and before he was healed to fight freeza already had a power level of 180, 000. So even if you dount count it linearly im sure goku could destroy earth with that kind of ki.
> 
> And actually maybe you should recheck the argument, the original post said that if goku could destroy it with either Ki OR physical strength.



Thats only if you assume them be linear or even logical for that matter.We know this not to be true therefore making it a moot point.I mean farmer with a shot gun can therefore destroy 1/30th of the moon if it is linear.Do you also have any proof to suggest Goku could bust a planet at 180,000?The lowest possible showing we have for absolute planet busting power using PL readings is 6,000,000 and that belongs to Freeza.

The way it was approached was as physical by most of the people posting on here.



Gaara_of_the_sand_ said:


> You fail to see the connection? well ok ill explain it to you. My point was Vegeta gets much much much much much stronger than during the Saiyan saga where he already claimed to have enough ki to destroy the earth. And with all this Ki could barely dent Cell in which Gohan smashed through cell's body with one punch. So my point was that theoritically Gohan's punches should contain more force that a planet destroying ki attack.
> 
> Show me a scan of Vegeta blasting away half of super perfect cell's body. I showed you a scan of him barely denting Cell, just able to get his attention when he was in the energy battle with Gohan.



We know he has planet busting power later on in the manga,the point is that he didn't in the beginning.Secondly you're confusing your Cell transformations.Vegeta blew away half of Perfect Cell in their initial encounter,Gohan punches sent him to his knees.In order for Gohan to have more force he'd have to atleast punch through Cell or punch a limb off.And finally wasn't it stated that Vegeta was weaker than usual because of the pwnage Cell laid on him?





Gaara_of_the_sand_ said:


> Vegeta's final flash has never torn half of super pefect cells body off. Also how is claiming SSJ2 gohan's punch to have a greater force than Final Flash wrong? Gohan was able to hurt Cell to the point where he deformed with one punch, while Vegeta's final flash attack barely dented cell.



Too bad he deformed Perfect Cell,not Super Perfect Cell.Vegeta on the other hand blew half of Perfect Cell's body away.Refer to above for anything I missed here because I'm sure I put it up there.




Gaara_of_the_sand_ said:


> Comic's shows feats while DBZ shows power levels and beating people who are strongest in universe etc etc.
> 
> Freeza's finger blast which could destroy planets is like nothing to Vegeta in cell saga, who cell could hurt and kill Vegeta with his punches. Havnt you realised? Once a person reaches a another level in terms of power level a blast from a weaker person doesnt even scratch them. Its been shown many many times that this is the case.



Comics do the same thing plus feats,except they might have a touch of deus ex machina here and there.

Freiza raised his hands above his head,gathered energy then threw it at Namek's core.There was no finger blast involved in it's destruction,I think you're referring to the filler scenes where he destroys Planet Vegeta.If blasts from people weaker than their opponents don't scratch said opponents,then how did Vegeta blow away half of Perfect Cell.





Gaara_of_the_sand_ said:


> What do you mean how close or great the fight was? Dude its quite obvious when someone is winning or losing, when they get knocked down or flown through rocks isnt it obvious whos winning? And they comment on how great the fight was because of the super speeds they were punching and dodging at to the point where you cant see their punches/kicks and once in a while sunpo style attacks.
> 
> What are you talking about realistic? Nothing was realstic to Mr Satan it was all a trick. Everytime he saw them fly/something getting blasted dissapearing they were all "tricks".
> 
> ...



So what you're saying is that they can't see anything but they see bodies flying and that makes the fight exciting and close?If anything thats a bullshit fight and people would have thought it was a joke.Face it outside of those short bursts of great speed people can see their actions.Thats the way it works from the Cell saga on.

Mr.Satan said the fight between Goku and Kid Buu was a really realistic dream.If he couldn't see anything then what was so realistic about it?Go argue with the translator that you're using scans from if realistic is the word that shouldn't be there

I think you understood me wrong.I said we're punching and kicking at eachother then we disappear from a normal human's perspective then reappear.In our disappearance we did a few actions no one could see,but that only happen throughout 40% of our fight.In other words we don't fight at super speeds the whole fight but instead 40% of the fight.

I don't really see anything that needs clarifying on DBZ.Anyway sorry for the long wait on the response.


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## Endless Mike (Nov 10, 2006)

Not many people know this, but I should point out that the energy required to destroy an astronomical object does not scale linearly with its size or mass. It follows the gravitational binding energy formula, and this means it takes almost 2000 times as much energy to destroy the earth as it does to destroy the moon.


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## SoulTaker (Nov 10, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> Not many people know this, but I should point out that the energy required to destroy an astronomical object does not scale linearly with its size or mass. It follows the gravitational binding energy formula, and this means it takes almost 2000 times as much energy to destroy the earth as it does to destroy the moon.



You should show off your Fun with Powerlevels topic.That is really the best illustration of your point,even though it takes the word of someone having an emotional breakdown as fact.I never get to say anything negative about your posts since we're usually on the same side.This was my chance and I had to take it.

Edit:I suck at hiding text.


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## jplaya2023 (Nov 10, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> Not many people know this, but I should point out that the energy required to destroy an astronomical object does not scale linearly with its size or mass. It follows the gravitational binding energy formula, and this means it takes almost 2000 times as much energy to destroy the earth as it does to destroy the moon.



prove these formula's are used in DBZ?


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## SoulTaker (Nov 10, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:


> prove these formula's are used in DBZ?



Prove they aren't used in DBZ.You can't because there is no reason they don't.You can't just assume that certain laws don't govern the DBZverse because those laws do unless stated or circumvented by other means i.e. Flash and the speed force.


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## jplaya2023 (Nov 10, 2006)

SoulTaker540 said:


> Prove they aren't used in DBZ.You can't because there is no reason they don't.You can't just assume that certain laws don't govern the DBZverse because those laws do unless stated or circumvented by other means i.e. Flash and the speed force.




YOU cant prove it either way, all we know is AT has stated on numerous occassions that dbz is a fantasy world and doesnt mimc real life or a real earth.


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## SoulTaker (Nov 10, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:


> YOU cant prove it either way, all we know is AT has stated on numerous occassions that dbz is a fantasy world and doesnt mimc real life or a real earth.



Is there gravity on Earth or any other planets?Do they use the same system of weights as we do in the real world?Is there blood red?Pretty damn similar to our world.

You can say that about most fiction,but they still adhere to the laws of physics unless stated otherwise.


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## jplaya2023 (Nov 10, 2006)

SoulTaker540 said:


> Is there gravity on Earth or any other planets?Do they use the same system of weights as we do in the real world?Is there blood red?Pretty damn similar to our world.
> 
> You can say that about most fiction,but they still adhere to the laws of physics unless stated otherwise.




system of weights?? unless stated then i say its unknown.


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Nov 10, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> Not many people know this, but I should point out that the energy required to destroy an astronomical object does not scale linearly with its size or mass. It follows the gravitational binding energy formula, and this means it takes almost 2000 times as much energy to destroy the earth as it does to destroy the moon.



Okay, so with regards to adamantium how much energy would it take? 
Because I have no idea. In fact, I wonder if such a limit was ever even expressed in Marvel at any point in time. Actually, Magento was able to bend it, wasn't he? So I guess it can at least be done. Err....

Lastly, what about Kiezan? It has already shown it has no distinctive power limit it cannot breach in dbz. Yes, yes, it would be a no limit fallacy to assume it can therefore cut threw adamantium, but the fact is that it can still cut threw people in dbz who can easily shrug off planet destroying +blast. So it has the potential! (But I suppose my latter statement about shruging of planet destroying + blast is one that would be debated and thusly the actual question of how much energy, or what kind of particual non "distinctively superior property( Ex: Vibranium) of something would be needed to be to cut adamantium will be buired.) Le Sigh.


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## Shidoshi (Nov 10, 2006)

The Chaucer Boo said:


> Okay, so with regards to adamantium how much energy would it take?
> 
> Lastly, what about Kiezan? It has already shown it has no distinctive power limit it cannot breach in dbz. Yes, yes, it would be a no limit fallacy to assume it can therefore cut threw adamantium, but the fact is that it can still cut threw people in dbz who can easily shrug off planet destroying blast. (but I suppose my latter statement is one that would be debated and thusly the actual question of how much energy, or what kind of particual non "distinctively superior property( Ex: Vibranium) of something would be needed to be to cut adamantium will be buired.) Le Sigh.


Technically, Vibranium cannot dent Adamantium.  Vibranium is more durable because of it's unique properties: it's ability to absorb vibrational kinetic energy is what gives it comparable durability to Adamantium, but a sword made out of Vibranium won't pierce a shield made out of Adamantium.

I don't remember what the Daizenshuu says about the Kienzan technique's upper limits...if any.

That said, if *anything* were to be able to slice through True Adamantium, it'd be that.  But then, that would be a property of the technique itself and nothing to do with the strength of the person using it.


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## SoulTaker (Nov 10, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:


> system of weights?? unless stated then i say its unknown.



Goku struggled with 40 tons.40 TONS.


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## Darklyre (Nov 10, 2006)

The Chaucer Boo said:


> Okay, so with regards to adamantium how much energy would it take?
> Because I have no idea. In fact, I wonder if such a limit was ever even expressed in Marvel at any point in time. Actually, Magento was able to bend it, wasn't he? So I guess it can at least be done. Err....



The thing is, Magneto didn't do it by strength or energy. He did it through molecular manipulation, which doesn't require brute force to do.


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## SoulTaker (Nov 10, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:


> plothole....



You're a fucking joke.Everything that you don't like can't be a god damn plot hole,it happened and is there in black and white.DBZ uses weight systems similar to the ones in the real world,and it also has gravity.Gravity which a principle you have no idea about considering you believe there is none in space.


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## Shidoshi (Nov 10, 2006)

Darklyre said:


> The thing is, Magneto didn't do it by strength or energy. He did it through molecular manipulation, which doesn't require brute force to do.


Even then, I would imagine that it wasn't simply cakewalk for Magneto to do...I would imagine it required significant "force" on his part to distend the adamantium molecularly by magnetism.

Although, I would agree that doing that requires untold order of factors less energy and effort than it would to do it physically.


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## jplaya2023 (Nov 10, 2006)

SoulTaker540 said:


> You're a fucking joke.Everything that you don't like can't be a god damn plot hole,it happened and is there in black and white.DBZ uses weight systems similar to the ones in the real world,and it also has gravity.Gravity which a principle you have no idea about considering you believe there is none in space.



its a plothole because goku wasnt even at full strength he was at an unpowered base form, so if u want to draw conclusions you can say goku had slight diffculty lifting 40 tons weights in an uncharged baseform, where he had no trouble as a base ssj1


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## Endless Mike (Nov 10, 2006)

That's not even the point he's making, moron. The fact is that they use the same measuring system to classify weights as we do (even in the afterlife).

We know that gravity and physical principles exist in DBZ, because if they didn't, then that would mean that planets and stars would never have formed in the first place.


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## SoulTaker (Nov 10, 2006)

jplaya2023 said:


> its a plothole because goku wasnt even at full strength he was at an unpowered base form, so if u want to draw conclusions you can say goku had slight diffculty lifting 40 tons weights in an uncharged baseform, where he had no trouble as a base ssj1



First of all the point is that they use one of our weight measurement systems.You said it was unknown but thats not the case.The DBZverse has some things in common with our world.Second of all Goku still couldn't do 40 tons in his base,and even if his SSJ3 multiplied his brute stregnth a billion fold he would not be able to break adamantium.


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## Crimson King (Nov 10, 2006)

How fucking dense can jplaya be?

THERE IS NO FUCKING WAY GOKU CAN DESTROY ADIMANTIUM! Not even the Hulk at his i-knock-away-universe-destroying-attacks mode could break it. The best he could do was BEND it.


I vote for the banning of jplaya from all vs threads.


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## Endless Mike (Nov 10, 2006)

I vote for the banning of jplaya from the universe.


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Nov 11, 2006)

Shidoshi said:


> *Technically, Vibranium cannot dent Adamantium.  Vibranium is more durable because of it's unique properties: it's ability to absorb vibrational kinetic energy is what gives it comparable durability to Adamantium, but a sword made out of Vibranium won't pierce a shield made out of Adamantium.*
> 
> I don't remember what the Daizenshuu says about the Kienzan technique's upper limits...if any.
> 
> That said, if *anything* were to be able to slice through True Adamantium, it'd be that.  But then, that would be a property of the technique itself and nothing to do with the strength of the person using it.



Cool, didn't know that. I'd always thought that say Black Panther went toe to toe with Wolverine that BP's claws could tear him a new one. Oh well. I, I, I'm not sad at all to learn that's not the case.

I agree, Jplya should be banned.


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## Endless Mike (Nov 11, 2006)

However, if it's Antarctic Vibranium, it will destroy adamantium simply by being in close proximity to it.


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## Nihonjin (Nov 11, 2006)

SoulTaker540 said:


> You're a fucking joke.Everything that you don't like can't be a god damn plot hole.



Same can be said for everyone of you anti-dbz people.
Someone states something in DBZ and you guys (im not specifically talking to you) find some excuse to ignore it.

Anyway, I'm not getting in to this argument, it gives me a headache.


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## SoulTaker (Nov 11, 2006)

Nihonjin said:


> Same can be said for everyone of you anti-dbz people.
> Someone states something in DBZ and you guys (im not specifically talking to you) find some excuse to ignore it.
> 
> Anyway, I'm not getting in to this argument, it gives me a headache.



I'm not anti-DBZ I just don't like how it gets over estimated because it was the "greatest anime of all time" when the majority of us were in middle school.It's annoying how some people believe "DBZ pwns all" when it's not the case.I do like DBZ it's just that all of the fanboys ruin it when they have to put their spin on it.

The same could be said about DBZ fanboys like jplaya.Anything that draws away from DBZ is now a plot hole,he doesn't even provide arguements. He is a fucking joke.The most obvious example of this is the fact that he thinks Itachi can stand up to Galactus,or when he said there is no gravity in space.I'm not going to pretend that some of the "anti-DBZ" people don't say some stupid things about it but quite honestly that doesn't happen as much as the over estimation by the fanboys.


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## TRTrunks (Nov 11, 2006)

if goku can destroy earth he can destroy anything on it, including adamantium, marvel adamantium could be destroyed, adamantium in wolverine is a problem...


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## Suzumebachi (Nov 11, 2006)

TRTrunks said:


> if goku can destroy earth he can destroy anything on it, including adamantium, marvel adamantium could be destroyed, adamantium in wolverine is a problem...



If Goku destroyed the planet, the adamantium, along with alot of other things, would just be floating around in space.


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## Gohan (Nov 11, 2006)

SoulTaker540 said:


> Wikipedia has been proven wrong in a lot of instances,it even has filler events in its write ups.Furthermore I didn't say planet busting power was never claimed I said that Vegeta was having a breakdown.Planet busting power is obvious throughout DBZ especially considering Kid Buu destroyed Earth.



"And never once was planet busting power ever claimed,and before you try to use the Roshi feat,the Earth is several magnitudes bigger than the Moon."



SoulTaker540 said:


> Thats only if you assume them be linear or even logical for that matter.We know this not to be true therefore making it a moot point.I mean farmer with a shot gun can therefore destroy 1/30th of the moon if it is linear.Do you also have any proof to suggest Goku could bust a planet at 180,000?The lowest possible showing we have for absolute planet busting power using PL readings is 6,000,000 and that belongs to Freeza.



Well the power level didn't inlcude the shot gun, it was only checking how much ki was in the farmer. And roshi had enough ki to destroy the moon, so the farmer having 1/30 enough ki doesn't sound too absurd considering this isnt the strength of the farmer but how much life force he has. I mean when you first saw roshi did he look like he has enough ki (energy) to destroy the moon? But yeh i guess there isn't any real measurement to power level to judge, since it contradicts it self alot.



SoulTaker540 said:


> The way it was approached was as physical by most of the people posting on here.



Well i was just following the thread maker's rules. 




SoulTaker540 said:


> We know he has planet busting power later on in the manga,the point is that he didn't in the beginning.Secondly you're confusing your Cell transformations.Vegeta blew away half of Perfect Cell in their initial encounter,Gohan punches sent him to his knees.In order for Gohan to have more force he'd have to atleast punch through Cell or punch a limb off.And finally wasn't it stated that Vegeta was weaker than usual because of the pwnage Cell laid on him?



He claimed he did in the beginning. There is no evidence that suggest he couldn't. 

Cell let Vegeta blow it off to make him suffer. He even faked the desperate look and said "oh know vegeta i lost you won". Well thats what happened in the manga. Then he grinned and regenerated to show Vegeta that even if he could blow cell off he could just regenerate. 
Also my bad in that i forgot about that time Vegeta fought Perfect cell.

Gohan was able to shove his arm really really deep through cells stomach and damage full powered cell alot with just one punch. Full powered cell (not super perfect cell). Full powered is when gohan finishes the juniors. 

Vegeta ate a sensui bean so i guess that wouldnt of affected him.






SoulTaker540 said:


> Too bad he deformed Perfect Cell,not Super Perfect Cell.Vegeta on the other hand blew half of Perfect Cell's body away.Refer to above for anything I missed here because I'm sure I put it up there.



The cell Vegeta blew wasn't even full powered. Plus, like i said, cell faked it. He could of easily produced that shield he used against goku. He even said " oh know i lost" to vegeta then revealed the truth to make him suffer. 




SoulTaker540 said:


> Freiza raised his hands above his head,gathered energy then threw it at Namek's core.There was no finger blast involved in it's destruction,I think you're referring to the filler scenes where he destroys Planet Vegeta.If blasts from people weaker than their opponents don't scratch said opponents,then how did Vegeta blow away half of Perfect Cell.



Refer to the vegeta-cell fight. People on a different league dont get scratch by ultimate attacks. For example, Super perfect cell compared to Vegeta. Or Freeza's blast compared to SSJ2 Gohan/ USSJ vegeta & Trunks/ Full powered SSJ Goku.




SoulTaker540 said:


> So what you're saying is that they can't see anything but they see bodies flying and that makes the fight exciting and close?If anything thats a bullshit fight and people would have thought it was a joke.Face it outside of those short bursts of great speed people can see their actions.Thats the way it works from the Cell saga on.



The fact that they cant follow the movements make it unbelievable. And please give me some scans to refer to what scene your talking about specifically so i can analyse the context.



SoulTaker540 said:


> Mr.Satan said the fight between Goku and Kid Buu was a really realistic dream.If he couldn't see anything then what was so realistic about it?Go argue with the translator that you're using scans from if realistic is the word that shouldn't be there



Because maybe they flew, did energy blasts that destroyed large areas.




SoulTaker540 said:


> I think you understood me wrong.I said we're punching and kicking at eachother then we disappear from a normal human's perspective then reappear.In our disappearance we did a few actions no one could see,but that only happen throughout 40% of our fight.In other words we don't fight at super speeds the whole fight but instead 40% of the fight.



Speed doesn't inlcude just moving, it includings dodging,punching kicking. But yeh i get your point.




SoulTaker540 said:


> I don't really see anything that needs clarifying on DBZ.Anyway sorry for the long wait on the response.



Sorry for the long wait on my responce too.


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## Mangekyō (Nov 11, 2006)

This is all a nice arguement but i think it should end, fact is nothing in DBZ can destroy adamantanium. I dont want to offend the DBZ people out thre Nor the Marvel People, Please dont get me wrong.


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## Suzumebachi (Nov 11, 2006)

Mangekyō said:


> This is all a nice arguement but i think it should end, fact is nothing in DBZ can destroy adamantanium. I dont want to offend the DBZ people out thre Nor the Marvel People, Please dont get me wrong.



Maybe they could use the Dragon to wish it destroyed.


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## Mangekyō (Nov 11, 2006)

Oh thats right, XD, i didnt think about the dragon, This could very well happen,  Thanks for telling me.


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## SoulTaker (Nov 11, 2006)

Gaara_of_the_sand_ said:


> "And never once was planet busting power ever claimed,and before you try to use the Roshi feat,the Earth is several magnitudes bigger than the Moon."



I think you are kind of taking that out of context,or I didn't say that the right way.Anyway that was in regards to Vegeta destroying Earth,because a lot of DBZ fans like to say that if Roshi destroyed then moon then Vegeta who is stronger can destroy Earth.Atleast one DBZ fan tries to use that.





Gaara_of_the_sand_ said:


> Well the power level didn't inlcude the shot gun, it was only checking how much ki was in the farmer. And roshi had enough ki to destroy the moon, so the farmer having 1/30 enough ki doesn't sound too absurd considering this isnt the strength of the farmer but how much life force he has. I mean when you first saw roshi did he look like he has enough ki (energy) to destroy the moon? But yeh i guess there isn't any real measurement to power level to judge, since it contradicts it self alot.



So bassically if he could use ki he'd be able to destroy 1/30th of the moon?Come on man you're better than that,I know you don't really think that.Power levels aren't linear or logical for that matter.




Gaara_of_the_sand_ said:


> Well i was just following the thread maker's rules.



But at the same time no one really talked about ki.Maybe you should have bought it up like,"What if Goku used ki?",instead of just jumping into the whole ki thing.




Gaara_of_the_sand_ said:


> He claimed he did in the beginning. There is no evidence that suggest he couldn't.



Are you sure about this,thats something I don't remember.



Gaara_of_the_sand_ said:


> Cell let Vegeta blow it off to make him suffer. He even faked the desperate look and said "oh know vegeta i lost you won". Well thats what happened in the manga. Then he grinned and regenerated to show Vegeta that even if he could blow cell off he could just regenerate.
> Also my bad in that i forgot about that time Vegeta fought Perfect cell.



It doesn't matter,Vegeta still had the force to vaporize half of him, for the sake of the arguement at hand it doesn't matter if he wasn't trying it happened.If Gohan couldn't go through him or punch off his head then he did not have more force in his punch than a planet busting blast.



Gaara_of_the_sand_ said:


> Gohan was able to shove his arm really really deep through cells stomach and damage full powered cell alot with just one punch. Full powered cell (not super perfect cell). Full powered is when gohan finishes the juniors.
> 
> Vegeta ate a sensui bean so i guess that wouldnt of affected him.



And if he had more force in his blows than a planet buster then his hand would be sticking out of the other side of Cell,or punch his limbs off.

Vegeta ate it before Super Perfect Cell pwned him.




Gaara_of_the_sand_ said:


> The cell Vegeta blew wasn't even full powered. Plus, like i said, cell faked it. He could of easily produced that shield he used against goku. He even said " oh know i lost" to vegeta then revealed the truth to make him suffer.



It doesn't matter if he couldn't put a shield up,he tanked it and half of him blew away.He tanked Gohan's punches and got sent to his knees.Sure it hurt him like hell but his limbs were flying,Gohan didn't go through him he just hurt him.




Gaara_of_the_sand_ said:


> Refer to the vegeta-cell fight. People on a different league dont get scratch by ultimate attacks. For example, Super perfect cell compared to Vegeta. Or Freeza's blast compared to SSJ2 Gohan/ USSJ vegeta & Trunks/ Full powered SSJ Goku.



Vegeta did more than scratch Perfect Cell,he blew half of him away.You said once people get stronger then the characters fighting them can't scratch them,so I provided an example that disproves that.




Gaara_of_the_sand_ said:


> The fact that they cant follow the movements make it unbelievable. And please give me some scans to refer to what scene your talking about specifically so i can analyse the context.


So it's close but they can't see it?And I had to do some digging for these but I got them.

[Saizen]_Eyeshield_21_-_50_[DVD]
[Saizen]_Eyeshield_21_-_50_[DVD]
[Saizen]_Eyeshield_21_-_50_[DVD]




Gaara_of_the_sand_ said:


> Because maybe they flew, did energy blasts that destroyed large areas.



He saw them,thats the key point.He was able to percieve it.





Gaara_of_the_sand_ said:


> Speed doesn't inlcude just moving, it includings dodging,punching kicking. But yeh i get your point.



Speed is movement and reaction.Kicking and punching fall under movement,and dodging is a blend of both.




Gaara_of_the_sand_ said:


> Sorry for the long wait on my responce too.



No prob,but you had to wait like 2 days for mine so I felt kind of bad.


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## Gunners (Nov 11, 2006)

> I think you are kind of taking that out of context,or I didn't say that the right way.Anyway that was in regards to Vegeta destroying Earth,because a lot of DBZ fans like to say that if Roshi destroyed then moon then Vegeta who is stronger can destroy Earth.Atleast one DBZ fan tries to use that.



No it is proof that his statement has truth. Vegeta said a statement, Roshi blowing up the moon and Roshi's power compared to vegeta's prove his statement to actually be possible.



> So bassically if he could use ki he'd be able to destroy 1/30th of the moon?Come on man you're better than that,I know you don't really think that.Power levels aren't linear or logical for that matter.


Why is this actually hard to grasp? If the farmer could concentrate his life energy into a Kamehameha in the correct manner he could probably take out 1/30th of the moon. 



> It doesn't matter,Vegeta still had the force to vaporize half of him, for the sake of the arguement at hand it doesn't matter if he wasn't trying it happened.If Gohan couldn't go through him or punch off his head then he did not have more force in his punch than a planet busting blast.


Cell did a set amount of training before the tournement, against Vegeta I don't actually think he was fighting him with seriousness.



> It doesn't matter if he couldn't put a shield up,he tanked it and half of him blew away.He tanked Gohan's punches and got sent to his knees.Sure it hurt him like hell but his limbs were flying,Gohan didn't go through him he just hurt him.



Hmm, Gohan made one of the cell jr blow up through punching or kicking them. Vegeta couldn't beat those cell jr, vegeta sajjin time could blow up a planet, so the cell jr can take planet busting attacks need be, Gohan killed them with a kick he made them explode.

Anyway I can't bebothered to go through with this, granted I have a higher view on their strenght that you  I don't think they can break adimantium, Marvel verse possess more powerful characters physically and overall than DBZ I haven't seen adimantium destroyed if it has it has been some godly force. Goku can not break it.


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## atom (Nov 12, 2006)

Goku could destroy it with EASE. In the theory of energy transfusion any energy one can emit one can use and convert into physical energy. So if Goku could use a spirit bomb, which essentially uses all the energy in the uni-verse its in. Then turn that into physical energy then he should be able to destroy it effortlessly. For this same reason is why Goku can't go any level beyond SS1 while doing a spirit bomb because he would absorb it making an infinte loop destroying the universe since he should just absorb anything including his own energy. 

Or, if thats to long of a explaination, just simply use Spirit Bomb, then use Kai?-ken giving him more then enough energy to crush this metal.


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## Enclave (Nov 12, 2006)

True Adamantium = No way.

Secondary Adamantium = Possibly.

Oh and by possibly, I don't mean physically.  His strongest ki attack MIGHT be able to break Secondary Adamantium.  I don't see how this surprises people.  Adamantium is supposed to be that damn strong.  The only things stronger are Captain Americas shield and Mjollnir.

Oh and some people seem to be horribly over-estimating Dragonball characters here.  They cannot amp up their physical strength to the same level of power as their energy attacks.  They have never been shown to be capable of anywhere near that level of energy manipulation.  They aren't Silver Surfer level after all.


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## Gunners (Nov 12, 2006)

Captain America's sheild is a formation of adminatium isn't it? Seriously I don't actually know.

I don't know why the thread has gone on so long, Goku<(physically) hulk. Hulk could only bend Adimantium.

2 is greater than 1 and 3 is greater than 2 so it must be greater than one. Is how it is too me.


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## Enclave (Nov 12, 2006)

Actually, Steves shield is a iron/vibranium alloy.  It is unknown how it was created to be so indestructible.  Attempts to replicate the alloy resulted in the creation of Adamantium.


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## Gohan (Nov 12, 2006)

ok its decided then. Even if goku can convert his ki to physical raw strength he woulnd't be able to break it because planet destroying power still cant destroy adamantium. 

This thread is done.


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## Shidoshi (Nov 12, 2006)

Enclave said:


> Actually, Steves shield is a iron/vibranium alloy.  It is unknown how it was created to be so indestructible.  Attempts to replicate the alloy resulted in the creation of Adamantium.


It's unknown how the alloys were mixed, but they know what it's made of.

And the reason it's so indestructible is because of Vibranium's chemical properties combined with the iron alloy's rigidity.  They know *why* it's indestructible, they just don't know how the alloys mixed together to create the resin in the first place.  That unknown catalyst (whether cosmic or terrestrial in origin) is the only unknown piece of the puzzle.


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## atom (Nov 12, 2006)

If something can be created then that something can be destroyed. Its basic logic.. and since its canon that Goku can destroy anything in his prime he could destroy Adamantium.


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## Suzumebachi (Nov 12, 2006)

> and since its canon that Goku can destroy anything in his prime



Please show me where it says this. 



> If something can be created then that something can be destroyed.



Duh.


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## Darklyre (Nov 12, 2006)

Bijuukage said:


> If something can be created then that something can be destroyed. Its basic logic.. and since its canon that Goku can destroy anything in his prime he could destroy Adamantium.



That's jplaya logic right there.


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## Crimson King (Nov 12, 2006)

Bijuukage said:


> If something can be created then that something can be destroyed. Its basic logic.. and since its canon that Goku can destroy anything in his prime he could destroy Adamantium.



real-world physics=/=marvel physics


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## Endless Mike (Nov 12, 2006)

No one's claiming that adamantium cannot be destroyed period....

Just that Goku doesn't have what it takes to destroy it.


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