# Zoro vs Yamato



## Shiba D. Inu (Nov 26, 2021)

who wins?


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## A Optimistic (Nov 26, 2021)

Impossible to say now, need to see what happens when Zoro attacks King with his new power up.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Tenma (Nov 26, 2021)

Gonna wait till next week to see how much stronger Zoro has become, though I think Zoro should have surpassed her

Yamato clubs pre-AdCoC Zoro into next week though.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Fisherman John West (Nov 26, 2021)

Zoro wins

Zoro before PU had more powerful strikes then Yamato

AdCOC Zoro hits way harder


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## Corax (Nov 26, 2021)

With aCoC Zoro can't lose this. Even pre aCoC he just could Asura her to win. Now even his low and mid techniques are deadly for her.

Reactions: Like 3 | Tier Specialist 4


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## Siskebabas (Nov 26, 2021)

Fisherman John West said:


> Zoro wins
> 
> Zoro before PU had more powerful strikes then Yamato
> 
> AdCOC Zoro hits way harder


Lol, yamato stalemating Kaido is better whatever Zoro has done

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 7 | Funny 1 | Winner 4 | Optimistic 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Fujitora (Nov 26, 2021)

Corax said:


> With aCoC Zoro can't lose this. Even pre aCoC he just could Asura her to win. Now even his low and mid techniques are deadly for her.


Just like ADVCoC TB was deadly for her right.


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## Klarionan (Nov 26, 2021)

Zora might win after he defeats King, but still loses for now.

Reactions: Friendly 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Fujitora (Nov 26, 2021)

On topic idk , gonna wait and see what happens next.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Duhul10 (Nov 26, 2021)

Zoro could f* King in the ass and it'll still be 50 times less impressive than stalemating Kaido even if for a short period.

Depending on how good his CoCoA will be, he might push to an extreme. Yamato has way more experience with cocoa, better stats and great defense.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 12 | Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Corax (Nov 26, 2021)

~Flow~ said:


> Just like ADVCoC TB was deadly for her right.


It isn't as strong as Asura. I doubt Kaido can do any serious damage to himself with bagua tier attack. Hakkai or at least Ragnarok tier attacks are needed to permanently damage Kaido.


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## A Optimistic (Nov 26, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Yamato has way more experience with cocoa,



experience doesn't mean much in power up piece and you know it bro


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## Fisherman John West (Nov 26, 2021)

Siskebabas said:


> Lol, yamato stalemating Kaido is better whatever Zoro has done






Stop it

Zoro output > Yamato

Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 6 | Winner 5 | Lewd 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Fujitora (Nov 26, 2021)

Corax said:


> It isn't as strong as Asura. I doubt Kaido can do any serious damage to himself with bagua tier attack. Hakkai or at least Ragnarok tier attacks are needed to permanently damage Kaido.


1st, we don’t know that.

2nd, that was not the point. The point was that she has the ability to negate damage entirely.


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## Duhul10 (Nov 26, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> experience doesn't mean much in power up piece and you know it bro


When you're Luffy

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Siskebabas (Nov 26, 2021)

Fisherman John West said:


> Stop it
> 
> Zoro output > Yamato


Just because you have better output doesnt magically put him above Yamato. 
King was ragdolling zoro 1v1,imagine what kaido would have done to zoro 1v1

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Fujitora (Nov 26, 2021)

Fisherman John West said:


> Stop it
> 
> Zoro output > Yamato


Hybrid dura with haki>>>> Dragon Dura with no Haki.


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## Kroczilla (Nov 26, 2021)

Yamato for now. Better feats, solid advantage in terms of movesets. Might change once we see how Zoro Vs King plays out

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Gianfi (Nov 26, 2021)

Yamato high/extreme diff for now

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Corax (Nov 26, 2021)

~Flow~ said:


> 1st, we don’t know that.
> 
> 2nd, that was not the point. The point was that she has the ability to negate damage entirely.


Wasn't she bleeding after bagua?She can't ignore damage completely I think.


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## Fujitora (Nov 26, 2021)

Corax said:


> Wasn't she bleeding after bagua?She can't ignore damage completely I think.


Yes but she can ignore most of it.

Kaido was infusing CoC on his bagua strikes so I really doubt he cant harm himself with those strikes.


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## Amol (Nov 26, 2021)

Yamato high diffs Zoro.

I hope people haven't forgotten that Yamato too has AdCoC and she actually has exceptional control over it.

Her feats are still hilariously better than his (which at the moment are just getting his ass whooped by a YC1).

Reactions: Like 4


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## Fisherman John West (Nov 26, 2021)

Siskebabas said:


> Just because you have better output doesnt magically put him above Yamato.
> King was ragdolling zoro 1v1,imagine what kaido would have done to zoro 1v1




not so good considering Zoro overpowered Kaido twice




AdCoC + Zoro insane attack power

Sorry, Ashura Zoro > Yamato

Zoro right now > Ashura Zoro Rooftop > Yamato


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## Fisherman John West (Nov 26, 2021)

Amol said:


> Yamato high diffs Zoro.
> 
> I hope people haven't forgotten that Yamato too has AdCoC and she actually has exceptional control over it.
> 
> Her feats are still hilariously better than his (which at the moment are just getting his ass whooped by a YC1).


Prove it is

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Bonney (Nov 26, 2021)

Yamato for now, fighting Kaido for an extended period, taking a beating, and also clashing with him head on is more impressive for the time being. Zoro has better attack potency, however she takes it for durability, control of her CoC & brute strength for now. Reckon he may pass her by the end of the arc with Nidai Kitetsu. She IMO will join & be a close 4th strongest of the crew kinda like 

Luffy > Zoro > Sanji > Yamato >> Jinbei

They need someone to fill the role to fight Green Bull if Sanji & Zoro take Kizaru & Fujitora.


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## DarkRasengan (Nov 26, 2021)

Yamato has superior durability, reactions, and comparable power output, she takes this high diff


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## Fisherman John West (Nov 26, 2021)

People downplaying Zoro as usual

Pretend feats don't exist

Zoro right now > Ashura Zoro rooftop > Yamato

Stop it people

Reactions: Tier Specialist 2


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## Siskebabas (Nov 26, 2021)

Fisherman John West said:


> not so good considering Zoro overpowered Kaido twice
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You realise these attacks havent impacted Kaido that much, youre purely grasping at straws, Zoro was folded by King pre power up, Zoro alone would have gotten pre udon luffy treatment

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Fisherman John West (Nov 26, 2021)

Siskebabas said:


> You realise these attacks havent impacted Kaido that much, youre purely grasping at straws, Zoro was folded by King pre power up, Zoro alone would have gotten pre udon luffy treatment


You release that Yamato attack had no effect at all, unlike Zoro who got Kaido shaking and angry. So unless you are going to pretend feats don't exist, stop capping

And no, Pre Udon Luffy couldn't do shit and got one shot, Zoro held off Hakai, overpowered kaido twister, scared 2 yonkos with 1 sword style and Ashura. Him losing to King proves King is overpowered AF, and King Durability is literally looking better than Kaido

So no, Zoro Ashura rooftop is without a doubt > Yamato

And Zoro right now should be stronger now that he can use AdCoC in all his blades

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## trance (Nov 26, 2021)

still yamato but its pretty close now


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## Fisherman John West (Nov 26, 2021)

Let's also bring up how Yamato used her shield for Bagua and still complaining about the Damage while Law took bagua and fought Big Mom after

Stop overrating Yamato people, she ain't shit to Zoro

Reactions: Like 2 | Tier Specialist 5


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## Siskebabas (Nov 26, 2021)

Fisherman John West said:


> You release that Yamato attack had no effect at all, unlike Zoro who got Kaido shaking and angry. So unless you are going to pretend feats don't exist, stop capping
> 
> And no, Pre Udon Luffy couldn't do shit and got one shot, Zoro held off Hakai, overpowered kaido twister, scared 2 yonkos with 1 sword style and Ashura. Him losing to King proves King is overpowered AF, and King Durability is literally looking better than Kaido
> 
> ...


Nope, nope and nope, zoro looks impressive in a vacuum. He never fought kaido 1v1. And again unless youre gonna make an argument king is kaido level or above.. Pecking order is very clear

Reactions: Like 1


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## ice demon slayer (Nov 26, 2021)

Zoro extreme diff

Reactions: Tier Specialist 2


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## JustSumGuy (Nov 26, 2021)

If Yamato joins (which is looking pretty likely) she won’t be stronger than Zoro or Sanji. 

That’s just a fact.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Fel1x (Nov 26, 2021)

Yamato high diff


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## Lmao (Nov 26, 2021)

Fisherman John West said:


> People downplaying Zoro as usual
> 
> Pretend feats don't exist


Winning trades vs a Yonko 1v1 >> Losing every single power trade vs a YC1, some even in base

Pretend feats don't exist

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 2


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## Whimsy (Nov 26, 2021)

Suspect Zoro edges it after this powerup. Was likely weaker before though.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fisherman John West (Nov 26, 2021)

Siskebabas said:


> Nope, nope and nope, zoro looks impressive in a vacuum. He never fought kaido 1v1. And again unless youre gonna make an argument king is kaido level or above.. Pecking order is very clear


Zoro Tatmumaki vs 1 v 1

Ashura was 1 v 1

Flying Dragon blaze was Zoro attack by himself

Zoro vs Hakai was 2 v 1 against Zoro lmfao

So stop it, just cause feats don't match your agenda, you simply ignore it

Reactions: Tier Specialist 2


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## Fisherman John West (Nov 26, 2021)

Lmao said:


> Winning trades vs a Yonko 1v1 >> Losing every single power trade vs a YC1, some even in base
> 
> Pretend feats don't exist








Thanks for proving Zoro is stronger

Reactions: Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 3


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## Siskebabas (Nov 26, 2021)

Fisherman John West said:


> Zoro Tatmumaki vs 1 v 1
> 
> Ashura was 1 v 1
> 
> ...


What agenda am i supposed to match? Zoro getting destroyed 1v1 versus king, so what do you expect would happen vs kaido? 
You keep hanging on that twister as if your life depends on it, there is one thing to hurt kaido and other to defeat him outright

Reactions: Funny 1


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## rext1 (Nov 26, 2021)

Vivre card states Zoro is number #2 in strength to the Captain. Luffy >= Zoro >> Yamato.

Theres a reason Yamato is fighting Kanjuro's lame conjured monster whilst Zoro is flexing on Kaido's Right Hand.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Fisherman John West (Nov 26, 2021)

Siskebabas said:


> What agenda am i supposed to match? Zoro getting destroyed 1v1 versus king, so what do you expect would happen vs kaido?
> You keep hanging on that twister as if your life depends on it, there is one thing to hurt kaido and other to defeat him outright


"What do you expect to happen to Kaido"

Don't need to expect anything, the feats proves what happens unless you seriously need me to post them again

You downplaying King? The guy who nosold one of Zoro strongest attack while Kaido screamed from mid tier attacks like Tatsumaki?


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## Siskebabas (Nov 26, 2021)

Fisherman John West said:


> "What do you expect to happen to Kaido"
> 
> Don't need to expect anything, the feats proves what happens unless you seriously need me to post them again
> 
> You downplaying King? The guy who nosold one of Zoro strongest attack while Kaido screamed from mid tier attacks like Tatsumaki?


I dont understand how your brain works, making kaido scream does not defeat him. Zoro cant clearly past through his right hand what do you think would happen versus kaido?


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## Lmao (Nov 26, 2021)

Siskebabas said:


> Zoro cant clearly past through his right hand what do you think would happen versus kaido?


He would clearly be bodied, that's not even up for discussion but good luck to you arguing with John.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ice demon slayer (Nov 26, 2021)

Its honestly super tough


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## Seraphoenix (Nov 26, 2021)

Yamato still folds him. At least wait to see his feats. Because up until now it was a mid diff for Yamato.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## o0Shinthi0o (Nov 26, 2021)

Yamato still wins this


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## Ezekjuninor (Nov 26, 2021)

Need to see if Zoro can actually control his AdvCoC or if he blows his load after 3 attacks. For now Yamato still wins.


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Nov 26, 2021)

Zoro wins high diff.

People are overrating AdvCoC, its just going to be thing that vaugely strong people use now. 
The fact that people had Yamato >>>> King solely because of AdvCoC is laughable.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Mercurial (Nov 26, 2021)

Even before this power up, Zoro had attack power stronger than Yamato's.
Just compare what Zoro's Ashura did to Kaido (a wound that left a scar) and what Yamato's attacks did to Kaido (basically nothing except for a little blood from the forehead). So yes Yamato's basics were stronger, but Zoro's peak was even higher.

Now, with Zoro being granted the power that "only a handful of the strongest" can, I think it's clear that Zoro is stronger than Yamato.
King is on par with Yamato if not stronger, with what he is showing: no selling all the attacks from a Zoro who could reply Oden's feat of scarring Kaido.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Nov 26, 2021)

I also want to hear the logic from people who believe in the M3 staying intact post Wano, but also believe Yamato is joining the crew while at the same time stating she's way above mere FM level character like King. 

Will Zoro and Sanji suddenly become more powerful than her post wano, despite only defeating King and Queen respectively?

If you believe the M3 is a staple for the rest of the series and you also believe Yamato is also joining the crew then I don't see how you can say Yamato is currently stronger than Zoro.

Reactions: Like 1


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## o0Shinthi0o (Nov 26, 2021)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> I also want to hear the logic from people who believe in the M3 staying intact post Wano, but also believe Yamato is joining the crew while at the same time stating she's way above mere FM level character like King.
> 
> Will Zoro and Sanji suddenly become more powerful than her post wano, despite only defeating King and Queen respectively?
> 
> If you believe the M3 is a staple for the rest of the series and you also believe Yamato is also joining the crew then I don't see how you can say Yamato is currently stronger than Zoro.


simple , by the time Yamato joins , Sanji & Zoro will surpass her IF she joins


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 26, 2021)

Zoro and Yamato were already extremely close. If he can use adcoc at will then he wins, his coc is obviously stronger than random Yamato


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## Ayy lmao (Nov 26, 2021)

Zoro zolos high difficulty

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## DarkRasengan (Nov 26, 2021)

Mercurial said:


> Even before this power up, Zoro had attack power stronger than Yamato's.
> Just compare what Zoro's Ashura did to Kaido (a wound that left a scar) and what Yamato's attacks did to Kaido (basically nothing except for a little blood from the forehead). So yes Yamato's basics were stronger, but Zoro's peak was even higher.
> 
> Now, with Zoro being granted the power that "only a handful of the strongest" can, I think it's clear that Zoro is stronger than Yamato.
> King is on par with Yamato if not stronger, with what he is showing: no selling all the attacks from a Zoro who could reply Oden's feat of scarring Kaido.


Yamato has that power that "only a handful of the strongest can" already, add onto that she has much superior defensive feats and she has a 1 on 1 battle with the worlds strongest creature and looked good

Reactions: Like 1


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## MartyMcFly1 (Nov 26, 2021)

Zoro takes it.

I’ve always said I think King would beat Yamato too.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Mercurial (Nov 26, 2021)

DarkRasengan said:


> Yamato has that power that "only a handful of the strongest can" already, add onto that she has much superior defensive feats and she has a 1 on 1 battle with the worlds strongest creature and looked good


Are you serious?

Zoro without the "only a handful of the strongest" leaves Kaido wounded and scarred.
Yamato with the "only a handful of the strongest" fought Kaido for longer, but did basically nothing to him.

Now that Zoro adds the very same "only a handful of the strongest" power, he is clearly stronger than Yamato.

Reactions: Winner 3 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Jay. (Nov 26, 2021)

zoro would die trying before accepting a loss but tbh yamato's df has a lot of handy tricks


yamato might be faster and can dodge easier and prolly can keep all of that up at the same time longer than zoro
coc coating lessons help her as well but zoro should be able to block most of her attacks if he focuses on defense for a while but i don't see him spamming his attacks. yamato is harder to tag and less arrogant than king in a fight. 

zoro would gets stronger with every attack but is at risk wasting his energy on ice bunshins


lemme see how zoro manages in round 4 against king


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## DarkRasengan (Nov 26, 2021)

Mercurial said:


> Are you serious?
> 
> Zoro without the "only a handful of the strongest" leaves Kaido wounded and scarred.
> Yamato with the "only a handful of the strongest" fought Kaido for longer, but did basically nothing to him.
> ...


Zoro used conquerers haki when he attacked kaido to leave that scar, we dont know the extent of the damage that yamato did to kaido since its all blunt, we know that she was capable of fighting him one on one for a decent amount of time and zoro has shown he can barely handle an underling 1 on 1, also attack power isnt everything and the powerup zoro just got yamato already has and is experienced with it


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## Van Basten (Nov 26, 2021)

It was always Zoro. This chapter didn’t change anything.

Reactions: Winner 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Conxc (Nov 26, 2021)

Offensively AdCoC Yama has done less in the hurting Kaido department than Rooftop Zoro. Zoro is also actually getting some pretty good endurance/durability feats vs King here. AdCoC should jump Zoro’s AP up a notch here. I don’t see how he doesn’t win this.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## ClannadFan (Nov 26, 2021)

Yamato stalling Kaido is overrated af lmao. Stalling a top tier is a YC1 lvl feat. Now if she gave him some actual damage then I'd get the hype. But she didn't do shit to hurt him the whole time.

Reactions: Like 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Mariko (Nov 26, 2021)

Still Yamato. 

Mythical Zoan + AdCoC + Oni DNA (hence durability). 

EoW Zoro will equal/surpass her though I think (100% if she joins).

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Six (Nov 26, 2021)

I'll still take Yamato for


Siskebabas said:


> Lol, yamato stalemating Kaido is better whatever Zoro has done



Love seeing the cope this induces. People either pretend it didn't happen or find numerous ways to downplay it. Guarantee there are people that think she couldn't even beat King.

Reactions: Winner 3


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## ClannadFan (Nov 26, 2021)

Six said:


> I'll still take Yamato for
> 
> 
> Love seeing the cope this induces. People either pretend it didn't happen or find numerous ways to downplay it. Guarantee there are people that think she couldn't even beat King.


Can you prove that stalling a top tier is above a YC1 lvl feat? The manga has plenty of examples of it being the case. Mihawk and the Admirals have been stalled by YCs. Unless you think Kaido is vastly stronger, which even if he were the actual WSM he wouldn't be that much stronger than the other top tiers.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Corax (Nov 26, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> Can you prove that stalling a top tier is above a YC1 lvl feat? The manga has plenty of examples of it being the case. Mihawk and the Admirals have been stalled by YCs. Unless you think Kaido is vastly stronger, which even if he were the actual WSM he wouldn't be that much stronger than the other top tiers.


This stalling feat is generally overrated. Vista stalled Mihawk for some minutes, BM chose not to fight Marco and her homies were KO by him etc.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Typhon (Nov 26, 2021)

Yamato clubs him


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## xmysticgohanx (Nov 26, 2021)

All Zoro needed was to be able to use advanced king's haki at all times. I'm assuming he can do that now, Zoro wins


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## Siskebabas (Nov 26, 2021)

Corax said:


> This stalling feat is generally overrated. Vista stalled Mihawk for some minutes, BM chose not to fight Marco and her homies were KO by him etc.


This is John West level argument. 
Zoro got outright demolished by King who is Kaido right hand. 
So either King is Kaido level or Kaido would shit on zoro even harder, this is pretty simple

Reactions: Agree 5


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## The crazy hacker (Nov 26, 2021)

Yamato wins against pre CoC Zoro. This Zoro is weaker than King while Yamato could fight with Kaido and is on par with King IMO.

Yamato, Post CoC Luffy and Marco where the strongest of the alliance side.

Post CoC Zoro wins.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Nov 26, 2021)

Y’all should stop pretending and just say you think king is stronger than kaido.

OT: Yamato very high to extreme for now

Reactions: Like 2


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## MartyMcFly1 (Nov 26, 2021)

Siskebabas said:


> This is John West level argument.
> Zoro got outright demolished by King who is Kaido right hand.
> So either King is Kaido level or Kaido would shit on zoro even harder, this is pretty simple


You know we have actual panels showing Zoro using the same attack on King as Kaido and the attacks hurt Kaido more. Do you want me to point you to them?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mylesime (Nov 26, 2021)

Zowo got this.
Yamato is likely joining, and nobody will ever take the second spot on the ship.
It's close, but based on their skillset and style, Yamato doesn't rely on hax or anything, she's a physical fighter. Think ultimately Zoro would put her down extreme diff.


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## convict (Nov 26, 2021)

Zoro for sure now. He was already offensively stronger and that is just magnified. Yamato stalled Kaido and matched him at times but ultimately she was getting hammered and was 0 threat to him. It was a low-mid difficulty fight at best. I believe Marco and King give Kaido mid difficulty. Zoro will be stronger than both shortly. A high end attack from him ends her.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## IHateAnnoyingJerks (Nov 26, 2021)

Curious to think why people believe Yamato will be stronger than the FM in the crew she's gonna join.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Duhul10 (Nov 26, 2021)

IHateAnnoyingJerks said:


> Curious to think why people believe Yamato will be stronger than the FM in the crew she's gonna join.


I give you as homework to find out yourself. You should've done it by now.


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## Kroczilla (Nov 26, 2021)

IHateAnnoyingJerks said:


> Curious to think why people believe Yamato will be stronger than the FM in the crew she's gonna join.


Tbh Yamato is hardly a regular addition to the crew. She's basically what Oden was whom last I checked is regarded as being in the same class as the legends of the verse.

Reactions: Like 4


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## T.D.A (Nov 26, 2021)

Zoro with this CoC powerup wins imo.


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## RossellaFiamingo (Nov 26, 2021)

Yamato Low high diffs. IT was a  Low mid diff before. Imagine thinking someone who was getting ragdolled by a YC1 is beating someone who took on a serious Kaido for 30+ minutes.

Reactions: Winner 4


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## IHateAnnoyingJerks (Nov 26, 2021)

Kroczilla said:


> Tbh Yamato is hardly a regular addition to the crew. She's basically what Oden was whom last I checked is regarded as being in the same class as the legends of the verse.


Rayleigh > Oden, Oden isn't FM.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Siskebabas (Nov 26, 2021)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> You know we have actual panels showing Zoro using the same attack on King as Kaido and the attacks hurt Kaido more. Do you want me to point you to them?


So what? You think some shitty dragon twister came close to defeating kaido? Just because he can hurt kaido, doesnt mean he can take fight to him, fucking scabards were hurting kaido and we know how that ended

Reactions: Like 1


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## Siskebabas (Nov 26, 2021)

convict said:


> Zoro for sure now. He was already offensively stronger and that is just magnified. Yamato stalled Kaido and matched him at times but ultimately she was getting hammered and was 0 threat to him. It was a low-mid difficulty fight at best. I believe Marco and King give Kaido mid difficulty. Zoro will be stronger than both shortly. A high end attack from him ends her.


Pre coc zoro was stomped by king, what do you think would happen vs Kaido. I dont understand how people come to such conclusions


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## koike88 (Nov 26, 2021)

If she can’t hit Zoro but he can hit her, he doesn’t need to be stronger. He just doesn’t want to get hit.


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## MO (Nov 26, 2021)

she still beats him. Around high diff now if he has advCoC.



convict said:


> Yamato stalled Kaido and matched him at times but ultimately she was getting hammered and was 0 threat to him. It was a low-mid difficulty fight at best. I believe Marco and King give Kaido mid difficulty.


disgusting Yamato downplay going on here.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## MartyMcFly1 (Nov 26, 2021)

Siskebabas said:


> So what? You think some shitty dragon twister came close to defeating kaido? Just because he can hurt kaido, doesnt mean he can take fight to him, fucking scabards were hurting kaido and we know how that ended


The fact is, Kings durability is showing to be close to or above Kaidos level. Should we just ignore that to support whatever argument you’re making?


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## Klarionan (Nov 26, 2021)

Fisherman John West said:


> People downplaying Zoro as usual

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Siskebabas (Nov 27, 2021)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> The fact is, Kings durability is showing to be close to or above Kaidos level. Should we just ignore that to support whatever argument you’re making?


So? Kaido still a lot stronger. People seem to cant answer simple question, if zoro is destroyed by Kaidos underlig, then what would happen versus Kaido himself?


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## Bonney (Nov 27, 2021)

You can downplay Yamato all you want by claiming other people were able to stall top tiers, theres a clear difference between short clashes like Vista / Mihawk & what she was doing against Hybrid Kaido. They faced off for some time, trading named moves, hitting one another. She was capable to taking a number of hits from him, most of which are capable to laying out someone like Rooftop (initial) Luffy in one or two blows. Zoro's AP is higher, but she has better durability, can create a shield to defend with Haki, better control & seems more agile in Hybrid. For now I'd side with her high - extreme diff. 



IHateAnnoyingJerks said:


> Rayleigh > Oden, Oden isn't FM.



Kaido seems to disagree. Roger, Whitebeard, Rocks, Shanks, Oden are the ceiling according to Kaido himself. He fought against at least 3 of those 5, would have seen Roger first hand at God Valley & Rocks clearly a monster.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Eustathios (Nov 27, 2021)

Suddenly we have a shit ton of characters in Wano who are all around the same level and to be honest it comes down to who you like more in most of these threads

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Maruo (Nov 27, 2021)

Zoro extreme. Before this chapter, Yamoto wins extreme.


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## IHateAnnoyingJerks (Nov 27, 2021)

Serenity said:


> Kaido seems to disagree. Roger, Whitebeard, Rocks, Shanks, Oden are the ceiling according to Kaido himself. He fought against at least 3 of those 5, would have seen Roger first hand at God Valley & Rocks clearly a monster.


By that logic, Oden > Garp because Garp wasn't of the 5 Kaido remembered, I am sure Garp wouldn't get clubbed in one hit (even if it's sneak attack) by a weaker Kaido.  I am sure if Luffy remember opponents in his past, Katakuri would be in it, doesn't make Katakuri > Kaido.  Rayleigh scales to EOS Zoro as Pirate King's right hand man, who should also scale to Mihawk.  Mihawk ~ EoS Zoro ~ Prime Rayleigh > Oden.


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Nov 27, 2021)

IHateAnnoyingJerks said:


> By that logic, Oden > Garp because Garp wasn't of the 5 Kaido remembered, I am sure Garp wouldn't get *clubbed in one hit *(even if it's sneak attack) by a weaker Kaido.  I am sure if Luffy remember opponents in his past, Katakuri would be in it, doesn't make Katakuri > Kaido.  Rayleigh scales to EOS Zoro as Pirate King's right hand man, who should also scale to Mihawk.  Mihawk ~ EoS Zoro ~ Prime Rayleigh > Oden.


That was one of the more obvious instances of pis. Unless you think pre-prime base kaido’s unnamed attack is above a named attack from prime Roger.


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## Canute87 (Nov 27, 2021)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> who wins?


Sword forged from the depths of hell  >  a piece of wood.


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## IHateAnnoyingJerks (Nov 27, 2021)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> That was one of the more obvious instances of pis. Unless you think pre-prime base kaido’s unnamed attack is above a named attack from prime Roger.


Roger was meant to have a friendly banter with WB Pirates and Kaido fights to win, huge difference here.  A serious Roger would kill Oden in one hit since Kaido's unname club can do the work.  Oden is the weakest by a significant margin in those 5 people that Kaido mentioned.


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Nov 27, 2021)

IHateAnnoyingJerks said:


> Roger was meant to have a friendly banter with WB Pirates and Kaido fights to win, huge difference here.  A serious Roger would kill Oden in one hit since Kaido's unname club can do the work.  Oden is the weakest by a significant margin in those 5 people that Kaido mentioned.


Or maybe Oda needed a way to end the fight against kaido where Oden lost but didn’t look weaker. Roger used a named attack in his prime.


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## IHateAnnoyingJerks (Nov 27, 2021)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> Or maybe Oda needed a way to end the fight against kaido where Oden lost but didn’t look weaker. Roger used a named attack in his prime.


A named attack that wasn't meant to kill.


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## B Rabbit (Nov 27, 2021)

Yamato for now but probably Zoro next chapter.

Reactions: Neutral 1


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## FitzChivalry (Nov 29, 2021)

Siskebabas said:


> Lol, yamato stalemating Kaido is better whatever Zoro has done


Highly debatable. A severely damaged, broken Zoro, who was hacking up blood, actually hurt and permanently scarred Kaido after eating an Ocean Sovereignty from Kaido and Big Mom.

Reactions: Winner 4


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## Siskebabas (Nov 30, 2021)

FitzChivalry said:


> Highly debatable. A severely damaged, broken Zoro, who was hacking up blood, actually hurt and permanently scarred Kaido after eating an Ocean Sovereignty from Kaido and Big Mom.


He can at best scar Kaido with his best attack, but it doesnt make difficulty for Kaido to go up, he still gets low diffed whether he scars kaido ar not. 
Though i understand that it doesnt make sense going from scarribg kaido to get stomped by King, but thats what happened


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## Lmao (Nov 30, 2021)

Siskebabas said:


> Though i understand that it doesnt make sense going from scarribg kaido to get stomped by King, but thats what happened


And this is why people shouldn't get overly excited for feats in group settings, 1v1s are always a better strength indicator.


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## Beast (Nov 30, 2021)

Zoro extreme diff now 

Yamato is meant to be Oden and Zoro is Ray is all I can say.


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 30, 2021)

Lmao said:


> And this is why people shouldn't get overly excited for feats in group settings, 1v1s are always a better strength indicator.


Zoro scarred Kaido in a 1v1
Even called him out before attacking him. There was no team effort there.

Regarding Zoro vs Yamato, the only thing Yamato had that could possibly put her above Zoro was adCoC. Now that Zoro has it, he wins, extreme diff


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## Beast (Nov 30, 2021)

Not going to lie if Zoro scaring Kaidou is being called a 1v1 then Yamatos fight against Laidou needs to be considered an extreme diff fight just off the difference between how long both interactions were. 



It’s just that simple… If Zoro attacking and landing 1 BLOW on Kaidou is considered a 1v1, then no doubt that Luffy and Yamato are yonko level already and are equal to Kaidou.


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 30, 2021)

Beast said:


> off the difference between how long both interactions were.


Yes, because that's how we decide if it's an extreme diff or not. Whether the fight was long or not. Nothing to do with how hard it was to win, how injured the winner was, if he had to go all out or not, nothing of that sort. Only the time it takes

A 1v1 is a clash where it's one person unaided against another person unaided. Has nothing to do with time. Zoro had a 1v1 clash, Yamato has a 1v1 fight


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## Beast (Nov 30, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Yes, because that's how we decide if it's an extreme diff or not. Whether the fight was long or not. Nothing to do with how hard it was to win, how injured the winner was, if he had to go all out or not, nothing of that sort. Only the time it takes
> 
> A 1v1 is a clash where it's one person unaided against another person unaided. Has nothing to do with time. Zoro had a 1v1 clash, Yamato has a 1v1 fight


not sure what you’re trying to say but my case is quite simple… if landing 1 BLOW means 1v1, then Yamato fighting Kaidou, tagging/ Dodging and tanking his hits… then Yamato has to be considered equal tier to Kaidou with that same logic. 

It’s funny you take multiple things into consideration when Speaking about Yamato And Kaidou but somewhere it gets clouded in your brain when it comes to Zoro… is that it?


Landing 1 blow is not and will never be considered a 1v1 in a group battle. Doesn’t matter how many Z boys agree with you.


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 30, 2021)

Beast said:


> if landing 1 BLOW means 1v1, then Yamato fighting Kaidou, tagging/ Dodging and tanking his hits… then Yamato has to be considered equal tier to Kaidou with that same logic.


No idiot

If landing one blow in a 1v1 scenario means 1v1, it means tagging/dodging/tanking hits in a 1v1 scenario also means 1v1

Zoro told Law to step back. Zoro called out Kaido and showed him he intended to attack him. Zoro attacked Kaido with no assistance from Law and Kaido had no assistance from anyone else either

Nono, it was a team effort, the rooftop air was helping him surely. Law was looking at Kaido so intensely that Kaido's haki got weaker too right?


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## Beast (Nov 30, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> No idiot
> 
> If landing one blow in a 1v1 scenario means 1v1, it means tagging/dodging/tanking hits in a 1v1 scenario also means 1v1
> 
> ...


Loooool, please do something better with your life. Debating on the forums is definitely your strong point. 



I will say it again for you very very very clearly because you somehow think this is discussion between me and you when it’s only right and wrong. 



LANDING 1 BLOW ON AN OPPONENT IN GROUP BATTLE WILL NEVER BE CONSIDERED 1v1 BATTLE. 


It’s all caps, so you know it’s a statement.


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## Lmao (Nov 30, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Zoro scarred Kaido in a 1v1
> Even called him out before attacking him. There was no team effort there.


After seeing Zoro lose every single trade vs a YC1 chapter after chapter (even vs base King) there are still people believing he'll somehow fight someone considerably stronger and not get obliterated 1v1? 

Please make it make sense.


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 30, 2021)

Beast said:


> LANDING 1 BLOW ON AN OPPONENT IN GROUP BATTLE WILL NEVER BE CONSIDERED 1v1 BATTLE.


What was it then?

3v1? 2v1? Who was helping Zoro to stop it from being 1v1?

Please explain dumbass
Actually, don't bother just go back to your little hole



Lmao said:


> After seeing Zoro lose every single trade vs a YC1 chapter after chapter (even vs base King) there are still people believing he'll somehow fight someone considerably stronger and not get obliterated 1v1?
> 
> Please make it make sense.


Are you trying to tell me that what happened in the rooftop didn't actually happen?


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## Beast (Nov 30, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> What was it then?
> 
> 3v1? 2v1? Who was helping Zoro to stop it from being 1v1?
> 
> ...



Doesn’t matter to me what you want to call it… once you get it wrong, I’ll be there to correct you


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 30, 2021)

Beast said:


> Doesn’t matter to me what you want to call it… once you get it wrong, I’ll be there to correct you


Ok I'll take that concession

Don't worry mate it's ok to be wrong

One day you'll understand that if it wasn't 1v1 then it had to be Xv1
Just need to tell me what the X stands for and I'll give you the win. Of course the only thing X can stand for is 1 but that's your problem


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## Beast (Nov 30, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Ok I'll take that concession
> 
> Don't worry mate it's ok to be wrong
> 
> ...


Bruh, are you still trying to claim it was a 1v1 fight? 


Bruh… I actually thought you were learning from the last few posts.


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## LadyVados (Nov 30, 2021)

After 1033 this is no longer a debate

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 30, 2021)

Beast said:


> Bruh, are you still trying to claim it was a 1v1 fight?
> 
> 
> Bruh… I actually thought you were learning from the last few posts.


If it's not 1v1 what was it

2v1 or 3v1? Who was the second? Who was the third? Who helped Zoro? Who helped Kaido? Was Law's stare nerfing Kaido? Maybe Luffy being KO on the ground was pumping Zoro up?

Your little jokes don't change the fact that you are unable to respond to my questions. Dodging questions just makes you seem arrogant on top of dumb


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## LadyVados (Nov 30, 2021)

Beast said:


> Bruh, are you still trying to claim it was a 1v1 fight?
> 
> 
> Bruh… I actually thought you were learning from the last few posts.


Agreed, if it was a 1v1 Zoro wouldn't have been weakened from Hakai.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Firo (Nov 30, 2021)

Let’s be real for a second. What did that Scar do to Kaido?


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## Beast (Nov 30, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> If it's not 1v1 what was it
> 
> 2v1 or 3v1? Who was the second? Who was the third? Who helped Zoro? Who helped Kaido? Was Law's stare nerfing Kaido? Maybe Luffy being KO on the ground was pumping Zoro up?
> 
> Your little jokes don't change the fact that you are unable to respond to my questions. Dodging questions just makes you seem arrogant on top of dumb


Says the guy that can’t answer one thing and goes ‘show me Zoro ass crack not coated in COC’ with your stupid ass. 





LadyVados said:


> Agreed, if it was a 1v1 Zoro wouldn't have been weakened from Hakai.


I agree, no one but Luffy after being stomped like 2 and Yamato ever had a 1v1 with Kaidou on the roof top. 
It’s been group fights most of the time.


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 30, 2021)

Firo said:


> Let’s be real for a second. What did that Scar do to Kaido?


More than anything else except Luffy's adCoC attacks


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## Beast (Nov 30, 2021)

Firo said:


> Let’s be real for a second. What did that Scar do to Kaido?


You mean that one fight on the roof top where Zoro blocked, blitzed and overpowered Kaidou in a 1v1?




Yeah me neither.


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## Firo (Nov 30, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> More than anything else except Luffy's adCoC attacks


It didn’t do shit. That man isn’t effected by it At all.


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## LadyVados (Nov 30, 2021)

Firo said:


> Let’s be real for a second. What did that Scar do to Kaido?


What did Yamato or Luffy do to Kaido ?

Zoan endurance is crazy.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 30, 2021)

Beast said:


> Says the guy that can’t answer one thing and goes ‘show me Zoro ass crack not coated in COC’ with your stupid ass.


ahah ironic, I answered every single thing you asked.

And yet again, you fail to answer my question. It wasn't 1v1, sure. Who helped Zoro?

I've asked you this 4 times already just answer the damn question


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## LadyVados (Nov 30, 2021)

Beast said:


> You mean that one fight on the roof top where Zoro blocked, blitzed and overpowered Kaidou in a 1v1?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No reason he couldn't have replicated that in a 1v1. Especially since a non-hakaied Zoro would have been much faster and stronger.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 30, 2021)

Firo said:


> It didn’t do shit. That man isn’t effected by it At all.


Neither is he affected by anything else he's been hit, including Luffy's adCoC punches

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Nov 30, 2021)

‘ if you can’t show me Zoros ass crack, Zoro is the strongest’ type beats from this guy right here.


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## Firo (Nov 30, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Neither is he affected by anything else he's been hit, including Luffy's adCoC punches


That’s the difference tho. Luffy will beat him. That scar isn’t worth mentioning based off of how Kaido is still going strong.


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## Beast (Nov 30, 2021)

LadyVados said:


> No reason he couldn't have replicated that in a 1v1. Especially since a non-hakaied Zoro would have been much faster and stronger.


Well, too bad that’s not what I said or claimed.

Reactions: Neutral 1


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## LadyVados (Nov 30, 2021)

Firo said:


> That’s the difference tho. Luffy will beat him. That scar isn’t worth mentioning based off of how Kaido is still going strong.


He can barely hold up Onigashima. 

And Zoro's about to beat a guy who is more durable than Kaido.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 30, 2021)

Firo said:


> That’s the difference tho. Luffy will beat him. That scar isn’t worth mentioning based off of how Kaido is still going strong.


Kaido is losing power to the point he can't even keep his basic DF abilities up completely

The scar contributed to that. Your little attempts at downplaying an enormous feat don't work as well as you think


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## Firo (Nov 30, 2021)

LadyVados said:


> He can barely hold up Onigashima.
> 
> And Zoro's about to beat a guy who is more durable than Kaido.


But he’s still holding it up and defeated Luffy, Zoro’s superior after taking the hit.


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## LadyVados (Nov 30, 2021)

Firo said:


> But he’s still holding it up and defeated Luffy, Zoro’s superior after taking the hit.


Zoan endurance


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## Firo (Nov 30, 2021)

LadyVados said:


> Zoan endurance


All I hear is excuses.


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## TheWiggian (Nov 30, 2021)

Firo said:


> But he’s still holding it up and defeated Luffy, Zoro’s superior after taking the hit.



Barely after a few hours of fighting when we know top tiers of similar calibre can go up to over one week without having zoan awakened regeneration.


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## Beast (Nov 30, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Barely after a few hours of fighting when we know top tiers of similar calibre can go up to over one week without having zoan awakened regeneration.


Loool, Wiggian don’t kid yourself. One piece is OnPanel piece, Offpanel Piece is a whole different thing. 


Wasn’t Sanji running and fighting for 2 years off panel?


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## LadyVados (Nov 30, 2021)

Firo said:


> All I hear is excuses.


?


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## Beast (Nov 30, 2021)

Firo said:


> All I hear is excuses.


Pick and chose what Kaidou ‘regenerated’ from and what he couldn’t.


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## Lmao (Nov 30, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Are you trying to tell me that what happened in the rooftop didn't actually happen?


All I'm saying is Kaido would absolutely destroy him 1v1 and his exchanges with King support that notion. Rooftop piece happened and if Kaido allows him to use Ashura he gets a scar again.

Big if and completely outside Zoro's control, depends how suicidal Kaido is feeling at that moment I guess.



Beast said:


> You mean that one fight on the roof top where Zoro blocked, blitzed and overpowered Kaidou in a 1v1


Dude can't even block King without flying to a wall, how is he blocking Kaido? Explain.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Nov 30, 2021)

Lmao said:


> All I'm saying is Kaido would absolutely destroy him 1v1 and his exchanges with King support that notion. Rooftop piece happened and if Kaido allows him to use Ashura he gets a scar again.
> 
> Big if and completely outside Zoro's control, depends how  suicidal Kaido is feeling at that moment I guess.
> 
> ...


You ain’t know?

Kaidou will face tank all attacks but the ones from Zoro.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## TheWiggian (Nov 30, 2021)

Beast said:


> Loool, Wiggian don’t kid yourself. One piece is OnPanel piece, Offpanel Piece is a whole different thing.
> 
> 
> Wasn’t Sanji running and fighting for 2 years off panel?



Good for Sanji directly reflects his ability of running in the air and under water now. 

I mean you can deny Ace Vs Jinbei, Katakuri or Cracker Vs Luffy and of course Aokiji Vs Sakazuki and pretend it didn't happen, but I won't and therefore will give no brownie points to someone who based on all information of powers/abilities should stand at the very top in terms of stamina and regeneration.


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## LadyVados (Nov 30, 2021)

Lmao said:


> All I'm saying is Kaido would absolutely destroy him 1v1 and his exchanges with King support that notion. Rooftop piece happened and if Kaido allows him to use Ashura he gets a scar again.
> 
> Big if and completely outside Zoro's control, depends how suicidal Kaido is feeling at that moment I guess.
> 
> ...


If he can block Hakai for 2 seconds he should be able to block any attack of Kaido's.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 30, 2021)

Lmao said:


> All I'm saying is Kaido would absolutely destroy him 1v1


No one said he wouldn't



Lmao said:


> Big if and completely outside Zoro's control, depends how suicidal Kaido is feeling at that moment I guess.


Ashura is pretty much instant, unless Kaido one shots Zoro, which he doesn't, Zoro will be able to use Ashura

It's not like Kaido is Katakuri and will attack him imediately as he powers up

Reactions: GODA 1


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## LadyVados (Nov 30, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> No one said he wouldn't


Rooftop Zoro vs Kaido- Kaido wins mid diff.

Current Zoro probably pushes him to high if not extreme.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 30, 2021)

LadyVados said:


> if not extreme.


Let's not push it

Reactions: Funny 1


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## LadyVados (Nov 30, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Let's not push it


Zoro has the power of Yonkos and Pirate Kings.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Lmao (Nov 30, 2021)

LadyVados said:


> Zoro has the power of Yonkos and Pirate Kings.


He just unlocked it 



Strobacaxi said:


> No one said he wouldn't


Then we're in agreement  



Strobacaxi said:


> Ashura is pretty much instant, unless Kaido one shots Zoro, which he doesn't, Zoro will be able to use Ashura


Even if it's instant will Zoro land it before getting Bagua'd? Luffy is a better fighter with FS and he barely dodged it, Zoro has no such luxury. I really don't see how he tags him first unless he just allows himself to get hit which given his personality is totally possible.


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## LadyVados (Nov 30, 2021)

Lmao said:


> He just unlocked it


Luffy just unlocked it too. Look what he's doing.


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## Lmao (Nov 30, 2021)

LadyVados said:


> Luffy just unlocked it too. Look what he's doing.




Luffy actively trained with a CoC master for two years.


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## LadyVados (Nov 30, 2021)

Lmao said:


> Luffy actively trained with a CoC master for two years.


So did Zoro.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 30, 2021)

Lmao said:


> Luffy actively trained with a CoC master for two years.


I remember said CoC master saying that CoC couldn't be trained

Reactions: Like 1


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## LadyVados (Nov 30, 2021)

@Strobacaxi Yamato pushed Kaido to high diff. Zoro pushing him to extreme isn't crazy.


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## Lmao (Nov 30, 2021)

LadyVados said:


> So did Zoro.


How did he actively train it when he didn’t even know he had it until Kaido mentioned it?


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 30, 2021)

LadyVados said:


> @Strobacaxi Yamato pushed Kaido to high diff. Zoro pushing him to extreme isn't crazy.


AdCoC Luffy didn't push Kaido to extreme tho


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## Lmao (Nov 30, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> I remember said CoC master saying that CoC couldn't be trained


He said it can be controlled no?


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## LadyVados (Nov 30, 2021)

Lmao said:


> How did he actively train it when he didn’t even know he had it until Kaido mentioned it?


Luffy only got coating an hour ago


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 30, 2021)

Lmao said:


> He said it can controlled no?


Yes, it can be controlled but not trained. It can only be strengthened by the user's growth


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## LadyVados (Nov 30, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> AdCoC Luffy didn't push Kaido to extreme tho


Pre coating Zoro was stronger than Pre coating Luffy

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Lmao (Nov 30, 2021)

LadyVados said:


> Pre coating Zoro was stronger than Pre coating Luffy


We've been over this many times 

Rooftop mvps are as follows: Luffy, Law, Zoro.


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 30, 2021)

LadyVados said:


> Pre coating Zoro was stronger than Pre coating Luffy


No. Pre coating Zoro's AP may possibly be stronger than pre adCoC Luffy's. In everything else Luffy is superior. And even in AP I doubt Ashura is stronger than adCoA King Kong attacks

Also, Luffy's haki > Zoro's haki

Luffy got a bigger powerup when he gained adCoC than Zoro because his CoC is greater than Zoro's.

Zoro is still high diff for Luffy at least until he shows just how much he grew with adCoC


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## LadyVados (Nov 30, 2021)

Lmao said:


> We've been over this many times
> 
> Rooftop mvps are as follows: Luffy, Law, Zoro.


Lol Zoro was rooftop MVP

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Firo (Nov 30, 2021)

Wait Mihawk is confirmed to have CoC?


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## LadyVados (Nov 30, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Luffy got a bigger powerup when he gained adCoC than Zoro because his CoC is greater than Zoro's.


Headcanon at its finest.


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 30, 2021)

LadyVados said:


> Headcanon at its finest.


wut?
You trying to say Luffy's CoC isn't > Zoro's CoC? You do know who the captain is, right? Who the future Pirate King will be? Who will defeat Imu and change the world? Who is the child of destiny, the chosen one, Joy Boy, etc?

bruh

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Lmao (Nov 30, 2021)

Zoro fans correcting each other, I'm witnessing a miracle

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 30, 2021)

Firo said:


> Wait Mihawk is confirmed to have CoC?


Not confirmed but implied

Swords have wills and you need to master them fully to make them black. To "conquer" other's wills is a feat of CoC
Zoro's CoC comes from his ambition to be King of all Swordsmen. Mihawk is the King of all Swordsmen


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## LadyVados (Nov 30, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> wut?
> You trying to say Luffy's CoC isn't > Zoro's CoC? You do know who the captain is, right? Who the future Pirate King will be? Who will defeat Imu and change the world? Who is the child of destiny, the chosen one, Joy Boy, etc?
> 
> bruh


Watch Nothing happened again and then tell me Luffy's willpower is better than Zoro's.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 30, 2021)

LadyVados said:


> Watch Nothing happened again and then tell me Luffy's willpower is better than Zoro's.


Luffy fainted after defeating his enemy. There was no willpower involved, he won, he rested.

That moment had nothing to do with willpower on Luffy's side so it can't be compared. If Moria hadn't been defeated at that moment, Luffy would have continued to fight and you know it.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Velocity (Nov 30, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Not confirmed but implied
> 
> Swords have wills and you need to master them fully to make them black. To "conquer" other's wills is a feat of CoC


Do we even know if this is actually related? I don't think "conquering" a weapon and turning it into a black blade are the same thing. Both Whitebeard and Roger had Advanced Conquerer's Haki and weapons comparable to, if not greater, than Mihawk's Yoru yet neither Ace nor Murakumogiri are black blades. 

Doesn't that mean that turning a weapon into a black blade might not have anything to do with Conquerer's Haki at all? Body parts and even weapons turn black when you imbue them with Armament Haki, so maybe when a weapon has been used for a really long time and imbued with Armament Haki frequently enough, it eventually doesn't need to be imbued at all. Almost like it's imprinted with the Haki of those that used it.

That'd explain why neither Ace nor Murakumogiri are black blades while Shusui is, because they were forged _for_ Roger and Whitebeard while Shusui is hundreds of years old.


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## Firo (Nov 30, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Not confirmed but implied
> 
> Swords have wills and you need to master them fully to make them black. To "conquer" other's wills is a feat of CoC
> Zoro's CoC comes from his ambition to be King of all Swordsmen. Mihawk is the King of all Swordsmen


So no then? Gotcha.


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 30, 2021)

Firo said:


> So no then? Gotcha.


Common sense works as confirmation for most people


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## TheWiggian (Nov 30, 2021)

Velocity said:


> Do we even know if this is actually related? I don't think "conquering" a weapon and turning it into a black blade are the same thing. Both Whitebeard and Roger had Advanced Conquerer's Haki and weapons comparable to, if not greater, than Mihawk's Yoru yet neither Ace nor Murakumogiri are black blades.
> 
> Doesn't that mean that turning a weapon into a black blade might not have anything to do with Conquerer's Haki at all? *Body parts and even weapons turn black when you imbue them with Armament Haki, so maybe when a weapon has been used for a really long time and imbued with Armament Haki frequently enough, it eventually doesn't need to be imbued at all. Almost like it's imprinted with the Haki of those that used it.*
> 
> That'd explain why neither Ace nor Murakumogiri are black blades while Shusui is, because they were forged _for_ Roger and Whitebeard while Shusui is hundreds of years old.




*Spoiler*: __

Reactions: Like 1


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## Firo (Nov 30, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Common sense works as confirmation for most people


Not common sense at all. Some of the strongest people in the series don’t have it. Until he shows it, it’s not confirmed. THATS COMMON SENSE.


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 30, 2021)

Firo said:


> Not common sense at all. Some of the strongest people in the series don’t have it. Until he shows it, it’s not confirmed. THATS COMMON SENSE.


"So you too have kingly ambitions" - King says as he witnesses Zoro's CoC
"Yes, I have a promise to keep - To become WSS" says Zoro in response

The man who also had that same ambition and actually went through and became WSS - Doesn't have CoC

CoMmOn SeNsE


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## Firo (Nov 30, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> "So you too have kingly ambitions" - King says as he witnesses Zoro's CoC
> "Yes, I have a promise to keep - To become WSS" says Zoro in response
> 
> The man who also had that same ambition and actually went through and became WSS - Doesn't have CoC
> ...


Still waiting for that proof.
Burden of proof is on the positive claim goodfella.


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 30, 2021)

Firo said:


> Still waiting for that proof.
> Burden of proof is on the positive claim goodfella.


Absense of proof is not proof of absence goodfella

But the monkeys fearing him and imediately stopping once he arrives is very similar to what Luffy does to animals


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## TheWiggian (Nov 30, 2021)

Once Zoro meets Mihawk for the final fight, draws his swords and summons haki tentacles that Mihawk will drop his painted blade to the ground and say:
"I didn't sign a contract of fighting swordsmen with haki."

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Velocity (Nov 30, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Absense of proof is not proof of absence goodfella


While absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, absence of evidence isn't proof of existence either. If your entire argument boils down to your positive claim is true because no evidence explicitly refutes it, then you don't actually have an argument at all because you have no proof.

Just like you're innocent until proven guilty, the negative claim is considered the default claim. If something cannot be proven to be true, then it isn't.


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 30, 2021)

Velocity said:


> If your entire argument boils down to your positive claim is true because no evidence explicitly refutes it


I'm afraid that's just your argument. "Mihawk doesn't have it because he hasn't shown it"

I've shown my arguments have nothing to do with having evidence, but simple interpretation of a manga page,


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## Velocity (Nov 30, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Once Zoro meets Mihawk for the final fight, draws his swords and summons haki tentacles that Mihawk will drop his painted blade to the ground and say:
> "I didn't sign a contract of fighting swordsmen with haki."

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Velocity (Nov 30, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> I'm afraid that's just your argument. "Mihawk doesn't have it because he hasn't shown it"
> 
> I've shown my arguments have nothing to do with having evidence, but simple interpretation of a manga page,


That's, uh, not really how arguments work. There are two conflicting statements here:

1. Mihawk doesn't have Conquerer's Haki until proven otherwise;
2. Mihawk has Conquerer's Haki because similar characters have it;

Out of these two statements only one is objectively true and, sorry, but it ain't yours. There is no actual proof Mihawk has Conquerer's Haki and regardless of how well reasoned or justified you believe your arguments as to why he *should* have it are, he doesn't have it until he is proven to.

It's as simple as that. It's not some dig at Mihawk, either. Nobody is assumed to have Conquerer's Haki until they're proven to.

You need solid proof, such as Conquerer's Haki being hereditary. Luffy has Conquerer's Haki so either his mother or his father must also have Conquerer's Haki. Presumably Garp *should* have Conquerer's Haki too given he stood shoulder to shoulder with Roger but we can't say for sure, although he seemed to expect Luffy would be born with it so there's a very high chance Luffy inherited it from Dragon and Dragon inherited it from Garp. We can't prove any of this, though, until we're shown it. All we can prove is that Luffy inherited his Conquerer's Haki from one of his parents.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 30, 2021)

Velocity said:


> That's, uh, not really how arguments work. There are two conflicting statements here:
> 
> 1. Mihawk doesn't have Conquerer's Haki until proven otherwise;
> 2. Mihawk has Conquerer's Haki because similar characters have it;
> ...


You're just being dumb on purpose now aren't you?

Or are you going to tell me Blackbeard doesn't have CoC? Imu doesn't have CoC? lol get real
When it's obvious, it's obvious. Dragon has CoC. There is no proof of it. But there are several implications. Enough to know that he has it. Same with Mihawk


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## Velocity (Nov 30, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> You're just being dumb on purpose now aren't you?
> 
> Or are you going to tell me Blackbeard doesn't have CoC? Imu doesn't have CoC? lol get real
> When it's obvious, it's obvious. Dragon has CoC. There is no proof of it. But there are several implications. Enough to know that he has it. Same with Mihawk


No, you're just being intentionally obtuse. Either that or you honestly can't tell the difference between proving what something is and arguing what you believe it should be.

Blackbeard hasn't shown Conquerer's Haki so, until he shows it, we can only say he *should* have it. Same for Im, who we know literally nothing about and cannot say anything definitive about them. We just assume that the secret ruler of the World Government probably has Conquerer's Haki because it's a sensible assumption.

Dragon, as I already pointed out (but you clearly didn't read that part), *should* have Conquerer's Haki because his son has it and it's hereditary. This is also why Garp *should* have Conquerer's Haki, as well, because if his son and grandson both have it then he should too but we can't actually say for sure if either of them do because they haven't shown it.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## ClannadFan (Nov 30, 2021)

Velocity said:


> That's, uh, not really how arguments work. There are two conflicting statements here:
> 
> 1. Mihawk doesn't have Conquerer's Haki until proven otherwise;
> 2. Mihawk has Conquerer's Haki because similar characters have it;
> ...


So do you think Kaido has CoA? I don't believe he's ever clearly used it.


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## Strobacaxi (Nov 30, 2021)

Velocity said:


> No, you're just being intentionally obtuse. Either that or you honestly can't tell the difference between proving what something is and arguing what you believe it should be.
> 
> Blackbeard hasn't shown Conquerer's Haki so, until he shows it, we can only say he *should* have it. Same for Im, who we know literally nothing about and cannot say anything definitive about them. We just assume that the secret ruler of the World Government probably has Conquerer's Haki because it's a sensible assumption.
> 
> Dragon, as I already pointed out (but you clearly didn't read that part), *should* have Conquerer's Haki because his son has it and it's hereditary. This is also why Garp *should* have Conquerer's Haki, as well, but we can't actually say for sure if either of them do because they haven't shown it.


You do realize of course... That I never said anything for sure, right? I specifically said Mihawk wasn't confirmed to have it but implied to have it? "Common sense says he has it" is the closest thing I said to "For sure" but that too is just "implied" or in your words "should have it"



Strobacaxi said:


> Not confirmed but implied
> 
> Swords have wills and you need to master them fully to make them black. To "conquer" other's wills is a feat of CoC
> Zoro's CoC comes from his ambition to be King of all Swordsmen. Mihawk is the King of all Swordsmen



But in some cases the implications are so clear that it's almost certain, like BB, Garp, Dragon, Imu and Mihawk.


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## BladeofTheMorning (Nov 30, 2021)

Zoro.

If Yamato wasn’t Kaidou’s kid, she’d be long dead as in their 1V1 fight.

Zoro blocked a Hakai for a second, could Yams handle it? He left a scar on Kaido without realizing he used CoC, Yamato has CoC, is aware of it and has left no scar what so ever.

Kaido was forced to doge Zoro’s swing, looks like Kaido doesn’t see those types of threats from Yama either. King knows of Zoros CoC either he has it too or doesn’t care as he can deal with “kings” already aka yams.


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## ClannadFan (Nov 30, 2021)

Btw my example of using Kaido can be replaced by any top tier who has yet to show CoA usage or have yet to have it confirmed elsewhere. The same logic being used against Mihawk having CoC applies for them as well for CoA.


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## Velocity (Nov 30, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> So do you think Kaido has CoA? I don't believe he's ever clearly used it.


It's not what you think but what you can prove. Armament Haki and Observation Haki aren't the same as Conquerer's Haki and, as far as I'm aware, anyone can learn how to use Armament Haki or Observation Haki (and indeed the Marines teach recruits how to) but you need to be born with Conquerer's Haki and only about one in a million people in the world are.

Given that Rayleigh insisted Luffy wouldn't survive in the New World without mastering Haki, we can assert that anyone currently in the New World would be experienced enough and powerful enough to know how to use Armament and Observation Haki. That includes Kaido, of course, although it's debatable if he'd been need Armament Haki given how dang tough he is.


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## Firo (Nov 30, 2021)

Velocity said:


> That's, uh, not really how arguments work. There are two conflicting statements here:
> 
> 1. Mihawk doesn't have Conquerer's Haki until proven otherwise;
> 2. Mihawk has Conquerer's Haki because similar characters have it;
> ...


Exactly.


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## Siskebabas (Nov 30, 2021)

BladeofTheMorning said:


> Zoro.
> 
> If Yamato wasn’t Kaidou’s kid, she’d be long dead as in their 1V1 fight.
> 
> ...


Yet yamato fought kaido for prolonged time and matched his named moves with her own. 
Zoro got claped in every turn by King, he couldnt even completely block his moves so king must be spamming hakais on his own


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## Lmao (Nov 30, 2021)

BladeofTheMorning said:


> If Yamato wasn’t Kaidou’s kid, she’d be long dead as in their 1V1 fight.


Even if we accept he wasn't trying to kill her he was still trying to knock her out and couldn't do it.



BladeofTheMorning said:


> Zoro blocked a Hakai for a second, could Yams handle it?


She would take it better than Zoro, mythical zoan + ice shield defense is a better endurance and durability combo than just Zoro's physical body. 

She took hybrid Bagua, an attack that has floored and send everyone it hit flying, with just a bloody head.



BladeofTheMorning said:


> He left a scar on Kaido without realizing he used CoC, Yamato has CoC, is aware of it and has left no scar what so ever.


Blunt force =/= sword slashes, you're comparing apples and oranges - different weapons different outcomes.

If Whitebeard were to punch Kaido, would you argue Zoro is stronger because his punch left no scar?  

Your point is invalid.



BladeofTheMorning said:


> Kaido was forced to doge Zoro’s swing, looks like Kaido doesn’t see those types of threats from Yama either.


Then why was he raising his club to defend himself from her attacks?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## BladeofTheMorning (Nov 30, 2021)

Siskebabas said:


> Yet yamato fought kaido for prolonged time and matched his named moves with her own.
> Zoro got claped in every turn by King, he couldnt even completely block his moves so king must be spamming hakais on his own


Got clapped in every turn? He’s been getting clean hits but King is still an enigma. He’s blocked some of his moves, albeit not his named attacks. Hakais of his own? No.

I’m still on the opinion he’s not out to kill his daughter, if he wanted to he easily could. Zoro got hit by BMs lightning, took a hakai, and scarred Kaido while having broken bones through his body as proclaimed by MD Law, something Yams hasn’t done yet. When she scars pappa through a speed blitz,  and blocks Hakai for a second then maybe she’ll be > over Zoro. As of now she’s not. But the gap isn’t massive. She’s a beast. 


Lmao said:


> Even if we accept he wasn't trying to kill her he was still trying to knock her out and couldn't do it.


Well then Kaido isn’t as strong as we think he is, is he. Trying to knock her out and he can’t do it? Joke. 


Lmao said:


> She would take it better than Zoro, mythical zoan + ice shield defense is a better endurance and durability combo than just Zoro's physical body.


The man was dead on TB and took Luffys pain only to survive. After a two year TS his endurance is through the roof. Now, he has majority of his bones shattered, scarred Kaido, and is now facing his right hand man after an injection that will plunge his body into pain that 99.9 percent of OP characters, if taken would die or be out of the game. 


Lmao said:


> She took hybrid Bagua, an attack that has floored and send everyone it hit flying, with just a bloody head.


This is a solid feat. 


Lmao said:


> Blunt force =/= sword slashes, you're comparing apples and oranges - different weapons different outcomes.


Kaido hasn’t once had a traumatic event where he recalls blunt force causing him agony. Odens slash and Zoro’s slash will forever be there. I know what you mean though, it’s the aesthetic “lingering” effect. 


Lmao said:


> If Whitebeard were to punch Kaido, would you argue Zoro is stronger because his punch left no scar?
> 
> Your point is invalid.


Zoro’s attack left an after effect, something that if hit on the same spot with the same or grater power would cause Kaido damage in the future. Same way as the Scabs all went for THE SCAR caused by Oden knowing it’s a weak point and knowing they couldn’t cause damage otherwise. He even said so himself their attack wasn’t enough to open that scar left by Oden. Scar = weak spot.

I know again what you mean. Damage is damage. We are comparing Yams to Zoro, until Kaido leaves a comment now “Damn runt, her kanabo has damaged my internal” or something along those lines her hits are just hits. Everlasting effect > in the moment effect. 


Lmao said:


> Then why was he raising his club to defend himself from her attacks?


Can’t be taking free hits against a CoC user in the short run, when you know you’re in the middle of a war. If he knew Asura would leave a scar he wouldn’t have been careless.

Good points from the both of you though. Well presented. Keep it up.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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