# Minato Namikaze vs. Shisui Uchiha



## Koto Inuzuka (Jan 20, 2015)

Both combatants are IC, but understand that it has to be fight to the death and consider their opponent an enemy.

Minato isn't Edo, Shisui has both his eyes, etc.

Location: Forest of Death

Distance: 40 meters.

Restrictions: None.

Aaaannnnnnd GO.


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## Trojan (Jan 20, 2015)

1- We do not even know what IC is for Shisui.
2- We have never seen Shisui in a fight at all.
3- We do not even know his jutsus (except if you want to count the game)

In this thread people would probably say that Shisui would use Koto, and defeat him. Believe it or not
there are some people who think he is stronger than Kaguya herself because of that.


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## Euraj (Jan 20, 2015)

What feats does Shisui have again outside of trying to use Koto on someone and getting his eyes ripped out?


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## Sadgoob (Jan 20, 2015)

Euraj said:


> What feats does Shisui have again outside of trying to use Koto on someone and getting his eyes ripped out?



There's no canon evidence indicating Shisui tried to use Koto on Danzou, or the circumstances behind him losing that eye. Just filler.

As for the thread, it's safe to assume Shisui is about as fast as Minato without Hiraishin, so it's basically similar to Itachi vs Minato matches, and comes down to genjutsu versus getting tagged.​


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## Koto Inuzuka (Jan 20, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> There's no canon evidence indicating Shisui tried to use Koto on Danzou, or the circumstances behind him losing that eye. Just filler.
> 
> As for the thread, it's safe to assume Shisui is about as fast as Minato without Hiraishin, so it's basically similar to Itachi vs Minato matches, and comes down to genjutsu versus getting tagged.​



In that case, can Minato tag Shisui before getting controlled by his genjutsu?


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## Trojan (Jan 20, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> There's no canon evidence indicating Shisui tried to use Koto on Danzou, or the circumstances behind him losing that eye. Just filler.
> *
> As for the thread, it's safe to assume Shisui is about as fast as Minato without Hiraishin, so it's basically similar to Itachi vs Minato matches, and comes down to genjutsu versus getting tagged.*​



How is that save to assume anyway? 

The most likely thing though is what we have already seen that FTG users are superior to MS users.


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## Kyu (Jan 20, 2015)

Minato is higher up on the food chain.

My money is on him.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Jan 20, 2015)

If Shisui was anywhere around Minato, it wouldn't have been said that Minato was unparalleled.  

Shisui does have that hype for being famous for his use shunshin during battle, but I don't think his shunshin would be better than V2 Ei's shunshin usage, and after the first rush, Minato had his number.  In fact I think it would be much worse, and more in line with the shunshin blitzing Sasuke did, but without the unblockable sword.  My money is on Minato.


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## Trojan (Jan 20, 2015)

Seeing Jiraiya doing that with his head hurts my head.


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## Bloo (Jan 20, 2015)

If Shisui was capable of holding his own against Minato, I highly doubt he would have lost his eye to Danzo. And, sadly, that's about all the logic you can use in a Shisui related thread in the Battledome.


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## Sadgoob (Jan 20, 2015)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> If Shisui was anywhere around Minato, it wouldn't have been said that Minato was unparalleled.



Minato's moniker was based off of Hiraishin. Shisui's moniker was based off the shunshin (surpassing even his famed genjutsu power.) It's therefore plausible that Shisui had a more refined shunshin.​


The Pirate on Wheels said:


> IShisui does have that hype for being famous for his use shunshin during battle, but I don't think his shunshin would be better than V2 Ei's shunshin usage, and after the first rush, Minato had his number.



On the other hand, A's the type of guy that will sprint into an area Minato set tags up despite watching Minato do it. Shisui is a master genjutsu (which Jiraiya says requires high intellect.)

So I wouldn't count on comparing the two's ability outside of shunshin, which yeah, I'd say A is definitely superior with because of his raiton cloak and massive amounts of chakra he puts into it.

But chances are, Shisui's dozens of times smarter and wouldn't go sprinting into a trap. Intelligence and genjutsu are just as notable factors as his shunshin, if not mroeso.​


Hussain said:


> The most likely thing though is what we have already seen that FTG users are superior to MS users.



Couple things. MS Madara was implied to be better than Tobirama, as both him and Hashirama were always above their brothers. And Obito was a kid and only had one eye against Minato. 

And in the end, kid Obito's actions ended up killing hundreds of villagers, Minato, Kushina, etc. without dying himself, so while Minato won that exchange, it's debatable if he won overall...​


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## Trojan (Jan 20, 2015)

1- Shusui's most powerful Genjutsu is 1 or 2 times in every 10 years. So, it's reasonable why wouldn't he rely on that more than his Shunshin as far as I am concerned. 

2- According to the translation I saw on tumbler, apparently Izuna was close to MS Madara's power.
3- You know that I don't buy the age excuse. 
Obito learned all of the uchiha's jutsus and other stuff when he was with Madara. He had Hashirama's cells making him much stronger, having more chakra, and healing abilities. His Kamui is much more broken than any other MS abilities that we have seen. 

As for Susanoo, for all we know, anyone who has 2 MS can use Susanoo, no, in fact we have seen Madara with no eyes being able to use it, and the game had Shisui using it with 1 eye as well. 

Minato died because HE chose to die. And that was not even Obito since Kurama was by his own free will at that point. Needless to say, it was some huge ass PnJ anyway.


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## Trojan (Jan 20, 2015)

Just found this funny though...




Ninjutsu, A-rank, Offensive, Close-range
User: Namikaze Minato

Transcending time and space to reflect light is a single gallant Flash!

A technique that applies the “Hiraishin no Jutsu (Flying Thunder God Technique)”. In the moment of charging into the face of the opponent, throw a kunai and with that, CHARGE. Teleport to the location of the kunai that has flown to the opponent’s back, to vanish instantly from the opponent’s eyes and take their rear. The sudden disappearance of the enemy (yourself, the user), in addition to receiving an unexpected attack, will cause the opponent great confusion, a two-stage attack. It is an evolved variation of space-time ninjutsu!!

(Minato vs The Masked Man)
Instantly deliver (lit. rotate, spin) a flash of “Rasengan” to the rear! The opponent that has suffered an embarrassing defeat can only bow down to the ground!!

-end-

Yes indeed.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Jan 20, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Seeing Jiraiya doing that with his head hurts my head.



If you play the song his spins time with gunshots.


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## Sadgoob (Jan 20, 2015)

Obito's Kamui is more broken defensively, but it's not that great offensively. We saw base Gau basically render offensive Kamuis obsolete with normal taijutsu technique.

And I know he was an exceptionally powerful kid by the time he fought Minato, but he was a kid nonetheless, and he didn't have an extra Sharingan to use Izanagi, which is a game-changer.

(As an example, without his Izanagi, both Konan and Itachi would have killed Obito. Not just injured him and have him flee to fight another day, but put him in the ground permanently.)

Just sayin', the whole FTG users > MS users is based on Izuna, who could be weaker than Sasuke was against Bee for all we know, and with a less powerful Obito (without his summon.)

But is Tobirama clearly stronger than Obito with 5 minutes of Izanagi, Shisui with charged eyes, or MS Madara? No chance.​


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## Trojan (Jan 20, 2015)

assuming the Edits are done. 



Strategoob said:


> Obito's Kamui is more broken defensively, but it's not that great offensively. We saw base Gau basically render offensive Kamuis obsolete with normal taijutsu technique.
> 
> And I know he was an exceptionally powerful kid by the time he fought Minato, but he was a kid nonetheless, and he didn't have an extra Sharingan to use Izanagi, which is a game-changer.
> 
> (As an example, without his Izanagi, both Konan and Itachi would have killed Obito. Not just injured him and have him flee to fight another day, but put him in the ground permanently.)​



- Gai with the help of Kakashi, Naruto, and B couldn't land a hit on Obito, except with the other Kamui. Minato did it alone, and MUCH faster than all of them combined. 

- I did not see how Naruto, Gaara, Sasuke...etc being kids effected their power. 
Obito was using the same jutsu the entire war, until he became the Juubi's host.

- I beg to differ. 
Izanagi can undo what happened if he used it BEFORE that thing happens to him, not after. I.E Obito was still without arm after Konan's strongest jutsu because she destroyed his arm earlier. Itachi's Amatersu was used suddenly, and therefore, he did not use Izanagi to get rid of it. 

With that being said, the FTG seal would have still been there. As you may know Minato clones fodderized him in the war when Obito used Izanagi against Konan earlier, but the seal did not vanish. So, really all he could have done is getting more of beat up..


Also, Obito's Kamui in all cases is surely better than Shisui's shunshin. And from what we know of Obito having Hachi's cells, his chakra and other stuff
are most likely better than Shisui's as well. 

Edit:

I was wrong and the edits were not done. :rofl


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## Sadgoob (Jan 20, 2015)

The edits are never done. ​


> Itachi's Amatersu was used suddenly, and therefore, he did not use Izanagi to get rid of it



It was definitely implied to be Izanagi. He was probably still burnt after using Izanagi, but it stopped the flames from spreading to the rest of his body and face. (Or the actual target: his eye.)

And because it initially hit his Zetsu shoulder instead of his eye after Sasuke winced, that portion of his body could be replaced just like it was against Konan's explosive tags.

In Kishimoto's first movie, it's basically stated and acknowledged that Amaterasu is a hard counter to Kamui (for some reason.) Obito retreats when Itachi threatens to use his flame.

Hence Izanagi being the secret that "not even Itachi knew about." according to Obito. It's really the only ace Obito was ever shown being secretive about (whereas he used Kamui openly, all the time.)​


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## Trojan (Jan 20, 2015)

I will wait before replying to you. Who knows how many edits are you going to make.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Jan 20, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> Minato's moniker was based off of Hiraishin. Shisui's moniker was based off the shunshin (surpassing even his famed genjutsu power.) It's therefore plausible that Shisui had a more refined shunshin.​
> 
> 
> On the other hand, A's the type of guy that will sprint into an area Minato set tags up despite watching Minato do it. Shisui is a master genjutsu (which Jiraiya says requires high intellect.)
> ...



When Tobi got the baby snatched from him with a shunshin, he said, "You live up to your moniker."  Which tells me Minato is the fastest, with his character theme being fast.  When I read the flashback chapter, I really got the feeling that Minato was fast at everything.  Shunshin to hiraishin to ripping off exploding tags off a baby into shunshining away from an explosion from already burning tags in his hand.  He's also an unrivaled genius in insight and understanding.  He was the only person who correctly deduced that Tobi wasn't really Madara in their first meeting.  Comparatively, he didn't just beat Ei's first shunshin by taking five actions to the one from the 2nd fastest man alive.  He also figured out Raikage's next possible course of action, (shunshinning to the marker he jumps to) and had Bee's tail tagged to give himself a location Ei wouldn't blitz punch.  During that time, he also grasped the relationship between Ei and Bee, and gave them relationship counseling.  Reactions, uptake and insight, shunshin, foot speed, learning, forming strategies and counter strategies, ect.  He was the fastest or near there at all of these.  All made possible because Tobirama invented learning.  

Shisui, meanwhile, is famous for his shunshin and his genjutsu, and being an all around cool guy.  Han was also "famous" for his speed, and Sasuke utilized a lot of the shunshin attacks in battle, and in most of the series was considered a speedster.  I've always though Sasuke was walking the Shisui route in his development pre-insanity, ever since his use of mid-combat shunshin utilization during the Haku fight, where he combined it with his sharingan to out speed a speedster, and continuing on to the PII speed blitzing.  I'm willing to grant Shisui superiority over Hebi/Taka in shunshin utilization, and I'll tack on speed for charity, but there's still a large disparity left between that, and the speedsters who left Sasuke standing stupid with their shunshins, with no hype, feats, or portrayal to overcome that gap.  

Shisui's intelligence doesn't even receive the benefit of vague fame or praise as far as I'm aware of.  I'm willing to assume he's reasonably intelligent, or even smart just because he taught stuff to little Itachi.  I'll presume that's where he got some of his shunshin application skill, and genjutsu practice.  But Koto aside, I'm not sure Itachi didn't further refine those skills, and surpass his friend, who quit growing after death, when we know Itachi improved at least until his illness.  Kidtachi also might have taken orders from ANBU leader Kakashi, who at that time was his superior.  ...depending on which way you feel like screwing over Kishi's timeline and relationship charts.  Kurenai, but the same vague databook hype, is supposed to have normal genjutsu equal to Itachi, and I'm not sure anyone would agree with Kurenai dropping Yondaime with her tree binding genjutsu even if she got it off.  So assuming that Shisui is faster than healthy Itachi is really not a given, and assuming he's smarter is also not a given, and assuming his base genjutsu is of the required level is not really likely.

The only indication we have is Koto.  He has the MS variant, which has years long cool down but can bind anyone, and the regular variant, which presumably is close to his base level, which has been dispelled by a Samurai without a kai (not the user) by being told he's in a genjutsu.  For some reason that gets nerfed with a huge cooldown as well, even if you power it with Hashi's cellular plot devices.  

I can't bridge all of that to put him up with and certainly not above Minato in anything but MS 5 year cooldown genjutsu he might well never get to use, and seems to never use IC.


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## Alex Payne (Jan 21, 2015)

To be honest Obito praising Minato's speed looked more like a mockery to me. It was Obito's plan all along to separate Minato from Kushina and buy time for Kyubi unsealing. Minato was played and he himself admitted that. Killing Naruto was the dumbest possible move for Obito - having both bloodlusted parents here and no Kyubi. If Obito really wanted to eliminate Naruto - he would've imo.

As for Shisui. He is decisively weaker than Minato and holds no match up advantages. Unless Koto. But IC Shisui is likely to be reluctant to use his 5-years cooldown trump. And Minato is the one who ends his fights quickly. Oh and was Shisui's shunshin hype still present after he was retconned into genjutsu master? Seemed to me that Kishi fully changed his fighting style.


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## Trojan (Jan 21, 2015)

Its 10 years cool down, not 5.


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## Punished Pathos (Jan 21, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> There's no canon evidence indicating Shisui tried to use Koto on Danzou, or the circumstances behind him losing that eye. Just filler.
> 
> As for the thread, it's safe to assume Shisui is about as fast as Minato without Hiraishin, so it's basically similar to Itachi vs Minato matches, and comes down to genjutsu versus getting tagged.​



I accept that filler as canon.
There is no other way we would ever see Shisui VS Danzo 

Minato wins though but if Shisui managed to get Koto on Minato then the blonde guy is going decapitate himself woriies


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## Bonly (Jan 21, 2015)

Only way I see Shisui winning is if he managed to use Koto in enough time but I don't see that happening more times then not


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## Trojan (Jan 21, 2015)

> Minato wins though but if Shisui managed to get Koto on Minato then the blonde guy is going decapitate himself woriies



There is no proof that such a thing is even possible. Otherwise, itachi would have attacked Sasuke when he claimed
that he will destroy Konoha.


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## sabre320 (Jan 21, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> Minato's moniker was based off of Hiraishin. Shisui's moniker was based off the shunshin (surpassing even his famed genjutsu power.) It's therefore plausible that Shisui had a more refined shunshin.​
> 
> 
> On the other hand, A's the type of guy that will sprint into an area Minato set tags up despite watching Minato do it. Shisui is a master genjutsu (which Jiraiya says requires high intellect.)
> ...



Actually minatos moniker was based on both shunshin and hirashin his shunshin was also legendary
Madara's Susanoo started to melt
 besides wouldnt make sense for him to be called the yellow flash if he just teleported no flash yellow images if you teleport


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## StarWanderer (Jan 21, 2015)

Minato. Shisui lacks feats.


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## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Jan 21, 2015)

It never ends well for MS users, when it comes to Hiraishin. Doesn't matter what level of skill, and let no one try and undermine Obito because of his age. Age don't mean jack crap in Naruto. Because just look at Naruto and sasuke. That Obito was trained first hand by Madara, given Hashirama cells and regeneration, and possess the most op MS technique. No doubt that kid Obito had long surpassed Madara when he had just Ms. 

Kakashi, Guy, Naruto, Bee struggled to even touch the guy, despite only using 1 jutsu. Minato hit him twice in quick succession in their first encounter, with no Intel. How many Kage are above kid Obito with Ms? Very few. Izuna too, lost to FTG. This is why I never understand why Itachi vs Minato threads drag on so long. Without Intel you wouldn't even worry about the kunai, you just let it pass you thinking it's harmless, then bam you dead.


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## StarWanderer (Jan 21, 2015)

> It never ends well for MS users, when it comes to Hiraishin. Doesn't matter what level of skill, and let no one try and undermine Obito because of his age. Age don't mean jack crap in Naruto.



Feats mean jack crap in Naruto. Young Obito is featless in terms of speed, reflexes and reaction speed. But nevertheless, he could react to Minato and almost trapped him in his Kamui demention. 

And it ends well for sharingan user if he is just as fast, or faster than Hiraishin user.


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## Trojan (Jan 21, 2015)

> State he is featless
> react to Minato.

StarWanderer strikes again. ^_^
He thinks his own ignorance about that characters mean that they have nothing. :rofl


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## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Jan 21, 2015)

Ugh, I almost forgot how dumb your posts are. Never mind, I thought you were getting better


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## Ghost (Jan 21, 2015)

Shisui's stats should be scaled to Itachi's and his speed a bit above. He also has Koto + basic Sharingan Genjutsu and Susano'o. 

I don't see how Minato is winning this.


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## StarWanderer (Jan 21, 2015)

Hussain said:


> > State he is featless
> > react to Minato.
> 
> StarWanderer strikes again. ^_^
> He thinks his own ignorance about that characters mean that they have nothing. :rofl



Base Minato was featless as well. I dont count beating featless characters and fodders as feats. Young Obito is not even close to adult Obito in speed, reflexes and reaction speed. The same is with young Ei, who cant be compared to adult Ei. 

Because of lack of feats.



> Ugh, I almost forgot how dumb your posts are. Never mind, I thought you were getting better



Dumb? LOL you better read your own posts.

"No doubt that kid Obito had long surpassed Madara when he had just Ms."

That is a dumb statement based on nothing but a fanboism. Manga is against that statement. Logic is against that statement. 

Maybe i'll make my own Hall of Fail, just like Shinobi no Kami did.


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## Trojan (Jan 21, 2015)

oh great. 

A was also featless before he fights Sasuke, and only learned all of his stuff at that exact moment. I am pretty sure
they chose him as a Raikage based on his look alone, otherwise he did not have anything because he was feat-less. 

Well, that StarWanderer for you, as smart as you can get.


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## StarWanderer (Jan 21, 2015)

Hussain said:


> oh great.
> 
> A was also featless before he fights Sasuke, and only learned all of his stuff at that exact moment. I am pretty sure
> they chose his as a Raikage based on his look.
> ...



Ei has shown how fast he is during Shippuden and War Arc. And there is a very huge time gap between young Ei and prime Raikage Ei. Thats why young Ei and Shippuden/War Arc Ei are 2 different characters in terms of power and speed. 

Kage is just a title. I bae my opinion on logic and feats.


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## Trojan (Jan 21, 2015)

Yeah, but he was Raikage before Shippuden and War Arc, which means he was featless based on your godly intelligence and logic. Therefore, there was really no different between him and any other fodder. Thus, he was chosen based on his look only, and he learned everything he knows out of the blue against Sasuke. 



> Kage is just a title. I bae my opinion on logic and feats.



I know, logic loves you so much, and so does the brain.


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## StarWanderer (Jan 21, 2015)

> Yeah, but he was Raikage before Shippuden and War Arc, which means he was featless based on you godly intelligence and logic. Therefore, there was really no different between him and any other fodder. Thus, he was chosen based on his look only, and he learned everything he knows out of the blue against Sasuke.



Yep, featless. He could be Raikage in a village full of fodders. Name me some of strong shinobi in Kumogakure.

There is a very little time gap between his featless appearance in Shippuden and his fight with Sasuke. But there is a 13 or so years time gap between his fights with Minato and Shippuden/War Arc. Ei learned lots of things, trained and became stronger during those years. Thats why he is so fast in Shippuden and War Arc. But young Ei lacks feats.



> I know, logic loves you so much, and so does the brain.



Yes it does.


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## Trojan (Jan 21, 2015)

There is no stronge Ninja at all, they are all featless. 

Yeah, but when WE saw him he was featless, and no matter how long the time skip is, we do not know anything about him in it. Thus, we can conclude that he did not anything at all. He learns everything he knows the second he fought Sasuke. Just a second earlier he did know know how to use any jutsu at all.


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## StarWanderer (Jan 21, 2015)

Hussain said:


> There is no stronge Ninja at all, they are all featless.
> 
> Yeah, but when WE saw him he was featless, and no matter how long the time skip is, we do not know anything about him in it. Thus, we can conclude that he did not anything at all. He learns everything he knows the second he fought Sasuke. Just a second earlier he did know know how to use any jutsu at all.



Yeah ok, thats nice. 

It matteres. Its stupid to say he learned all his tricks in few days, or few seconds. And its stupid to say that young Ei is comparable to Shippuden/War Arc Ei. There is a huge time gap of more than 10 years. Ei could train and become that strong during those years. Young Ei has almost no showings and no feats in Manga. Prime Raikage has impressive feats. So it is logical that prime Ei is much faster than young Ei. Because there is a very huge time gap and young Ei has no feats to suggest he was as good as prime Ei. Young Ei is featless and its fact.


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## Trojan (Jan 21, 2015)

I did not even talk about minato or young a. I dont know why are u bringing that up! Still have nightmares about him?


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## Atlantic Storm (Jan 21, 2015)

Shisui is completely featless.


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