# Pokemon X/Y Already Has a Crippling Problem



## Kunoichi gal (Jun 20, 2013)

Here's an article I found:



The author essentially goes on to complain about how Pokemon is "stale" and how he doesn't like how you can only start out with either a grass, fire, or water Pokemon when beginning any new game (basically, this "formula" is boring).

What are your thoughts? 
Personally, I always loved the Pokemon series for the "formulaic" start that each game had. Maybe it's just nostalgia from when I first began playing Pokemon back in the original "Red" version days...but I actually like this tradition.


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## Sunrider (Jun 20, 2013)

I feel like they could stand to switch it up. 

Why not Psychic/Fighting/Dark starters? Fairy/Dragon/whateverbeatsFairy, or Thunder/Ground/Water? 

I don't mind them sticking to the script, but 15-ish years later, they could do something to renew the feel of the game that isn't just graphics.


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## RandomLurker (Jun 20, 2013)

I would gladly accept a non-formulaic Pok?mon game, but I don't think the genwunners would.


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## B Rabbit (Jun 20, 2013)

I would too 

Would add a different feel to the game which can be needed.


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## Sunrider (Jun 20, 2013)

RandomLurker said:


> I would gladly accept a non-formulaic Pok?mon game, but I don't think the genwunners would.


Kill that noise, I am a gen 1-er (still think Mewtwo's the greatest of all time, even after Arceus). There might be some neo-con nostalgiafags floating about, but I think the series could use some clever change-ups: stuff that probably won't revolutionize the series, but would be a nice switch from the current formula. 

Though I disagree with the thread title; Pokemon's formulaic ways are hardly what I'd call a "crippling problem," they just feel a bit uninspired after a while.


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## Axl Low (Jun 20, 2013)

Fairy / Steel / Poison

Rock/Ground / Ice / Fire?


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## Sunrider (Jun 20, 2013)

Axl Low said:


> Rock/Ground / Ice / Fire?


Can't be Rock, since Rock pummels both Ice and Fire. 

But Ground/Ice/Fire would be cool.


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## Bioness (Jun 20, 2013)

Yahtzee says it best.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdt8ZD1N-wk[/YOUTUBE]



> It is gratifying to see that at least one game series remains untainted by the various scourges of modernity, but only because it hasn't budged an inch in fifteen fucking years.



I feel like they should have mixed it up long ago. I mean I know there are the off series games like Pokemon Mystery Dungeon (the latest of which was abhorrent compared to the previous) and Pokemon Rumble.

Though another part of me feels like it is a nice constant of Pokemon.
> Fire, Water, Grass Starters
> 8 Gyms
> Evil Organization actually this one is fucking annoying
> 4 Elite 4 members + 1 champion


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## Wonder Mike (Jun 21, 2013)

You could have all three starters. That would be nice.


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## Axl Low (Jun 21, 2013)

i want a pokemon game that has 10 badges and the ability to travel  to kanto johto but you start over with a new starter and all your pokemon are locked in the storage box until you get a badge that corresponds with their level.

like getting the pewter city badge would allow you to use your different region Pokemon up to lvl 10 and lower. And cascade badge would allow you to use lvl 20 different region pokemon and etc. 

Them maybe
6 Elite Members and the champion.

Give them a deadly sins motif.

Gluttony or sloth: lazy / high hp / high def pokemon:
Chansey Slaking Snorlax Waillord miltank clefable 

Wrath: Fire and Fighting speedy sweepers.

Envy: Ghost / Dark

Greed: stat boosters and baton passes, belly drum, sub etc

lust: attract / sweet kiss / all status effects / confusion etc...

pride: UBERS / UBERS OUT THE ASS WITH COOKIE CUTTER MOVES AND GIMMICKS


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## Bioness (Jun 21, 2013)

Pokemon MMORPG.

Rated T.


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## tari101190 (Jun 21, 2013)

I like the idea of the gyms being based on stats rather than type.

And I like the idea of there being more than eight gyms, but still needing only eight badges. Meaning you can choose which badges you get.

I wish the pokemon league was an actual tournament though. It could still end up being just 5 battles from the players perspective. But the fights should be randomized and different each time you enter the league. And they shouldn't have set levels, rather the opponents should match your level. 

The elite four, gym leaders, rivals, and friends, should randomly appear as participants in the tournament though. It shouldn't be the same tournament each time. It would add replay-ability.

I would prefer if the Elite Four were rare roaming trainers. Maybe even say if you manage to beat and find all four elite four members, you can qualify for the league without badges at all.


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## Sunrider (Jun 21, 2013)

tari101190 said:


> I like the idea of the gyms being based on stats rather than type.
> 
> And I like the idea of there being more than eight gyms, but still needing only eight badges. Meaning you can choose which badges you get.
> 
> ...


Oh man, ALL of this.


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## Taokaka (inactive) (Jun 21, 2013)

tari101190 said:


> I like the idea of the gyms being based on stats rather than type.
> 
> And I like the idea of there being more than eight gyms, but still needing only eight badges. Meaning you can choose which badges you get.
> 
> ...



I'd buy this in a heartbeat.

For me, the classic rock-paper-scissors formula is still around because it works. 
It doesn't have to be grass/fire/water. I agree on that point, but I like the idea of how it slightly adds to the challenge of the game if the starters are gridlocked.


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## tari101190 (Jun 22, 2013)

What do you think the chances of any game staples being changed?

I like the grass, fire, water starters though. I wouldn't want that to change.

But I would like things like the gyms, eliteour, and pokemon league to change.


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## Xiammes (Jun 22, 2013)

I am fine with the fire/water/grass core, I wish they would have some unique secondary types though.


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## Freechoice (Jun 22, 2013)

The core reason why I like Pokemon is because it hasn't tried to be different, thereby ruining what makes it so good.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.


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## Naruto (Jun 22, 2013)

I can understand sticking to the formula on the main franchise, but whats stopping them from releasing a spinoff game to test the waters with new ideas? Whatever sticks, go with it on the next major release.


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## Swarmy (Jun 22, 2013)

I still don't understand why they didn't keep the feature to have one of your pokemon follow you around...


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## Bioness (Jun 22, 2013)

Swarmy said:


> I still don't understand why they didn't keep the feature to have one of your pokemon follow you around...



This is what most people want back. It was a nice and non game changing feature just for fun.


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## Abanikochan (Jun 22, 2013)

I'm fine with the grass/water/fire starters as long as the fire doesn't evolve into another fire/fighting type again. 

I just hope whatever evil organization they introduce is badass and interesting. So if it's in France then would it be the Milieu?


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## B Rabbit (Jun 22, 2013)

I think they're alot more things to change before the starter format.


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## Fenrir (Jun 23, 2013)

The problem with having something like a Thunder/Ground/Water trio or a Psychic/Dark/Fighting trio is that one of them isn't just weak against them - they can't do shit against thdm because they're immune to their freaking type. And if that's not the case, then they're obliterated by the one that does affect them, especially Fighting/Psychic.

Whild it is kinda stale, I think it's what they have to work with since F/G/W really is the best foundation to begin the game with.


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## tari101190 (Jun 23, 2013)

I like pokemon, but it's boring and I can't be bothered to play or buy it anymore. It needs something new to add to its single player replay-ability.


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## Sunrider (Jun 23, 2013)

Alpha~13 said:


> The problem with having something like a Thunder/Ground/Water trio or a Psychic/Dark/Fighting trio is that one of them isn't just weak against them - they can't do shit against thdm because they're immune to their freaking type. And if that's not the case, then they're obliterated by the one that does affect them, especially Fighting/Psychic.


Except none of the aforementioned types has moves limited to _just_ their type. 

A Psychic type with a Normal move can still do damage to a Dark type, just like a Pikachu with Quick Attack can touch a Diglett. 

Type immunities among a trio don't render them unworkable.


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## Fenrir (Jun 23, 2013)

The Ninth Doctor said:


> Except none of the aforementioned types has moves limited to _just_ their type.
> 
> A Psychic type with a Normal move can still do damage to a Dark type, just like a Pikachu with Quick Attack can touch a Diglett.
> 
> Type immunities among a trio don't render them unworkable.


It isn't unworkable, but it's pretty clear that is renders certain Pokemon in the trio at a pretty bad disadvantage themselves. A Psychic using a Normal type move on the guy and doing practically nothing isn't really fair when the other can one shot them for lulz.

Although to be honest, it's not like you don't catch Pokemon to counter the rival's starter already anyways, so I don't care much.


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## Sunrider (Jun 23, 2013)

Alpha~13 said:


> It isn't unworkable, but it's pretty clear that is renders certain Pokemon in the trio at a pretty bad disadvantage themselves. A Psychic using a Normal type move on the guy and doing practically nothing isn't really fair when the other can one shot them for lulz.


Pretty bad disadvantage? 

Assuming for the moment that a Dark-type was resistant to Normal attacks (hint: it's not), you'd simply... use a move that it isn't resistant to. 

Whether resistant or immune, if you catch yourself using a 'mon against something it's weak against, you wouldn't use the most obviously _bad_ move possible, would you? Of course not, if you've outfitted it with at least one move with better coverage, you use that. 

And, just like you mentioned, there's also the time-honored practice of simply tailoring a team balanced to the stater, so there's really not much reason _not_ to switch up the starter format.


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## Fenrir (Jun 23, 2013)

The Ninth Doctor said:


> Pretty bad disadvantage?
> 
> Assuming for the moment that a Dark-type was resistant to Normal attacks (hint: it's not), you'd simply... use a move that it isn't resistant to.
> 
> ...


Yeah, agreed.


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## Nois (Jun 23, 2013)

Would be fun if you could pick from more than one starting villages, and get a different set of starters depending on that.


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## Fenrir (Jun 23, 2013)

Nois said:


> Would be fun if you could pick from more than one starting villages, and get a different set of starters depending on that.


Now THIS would be amazing.

Too bad they'll never do it =/


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## Nois (Jun 23, 2013)

Heh, probably. I don't know how hard it would be to make it, but I think it'd be worth it.

Or a game, where depending on what event ticket you get, you can visit one of the old regions

Red Ticket - Kanto
Yellow Ticket - Johto
Green Ticket - Hoenn
Pearl Ticket - Sinnoh
Black Ticket - Unova


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## Sunrider (Jun 23, 2013)

Nois said:


> Would be fun if you could pick from more than one starting villages, and get a different set of starters depending on that.


I've wanted this for SO LONG.


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## Nois (Jun 23, 2013)

The Ninth Doctor said:


> I've wanted this for SO LONG.



I think we've even talked about this once or twice


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## Gunners (Jun 24, 2013)

I'd like to see them do more with the terrain/condition ( as in there should be one for each typing) and incorporate it into the gym battles. 

I'd also like for the story to revamped. I don't exactly mind the typical fire-grass-water but I am getting bored of the same exact formula. Would be nice if they incorporated tournaments into the main story, have the protagonist duped into working for the villains at some point, trying to preserve/save a location etc. Just shake things up so it is a little less predictable. 

I'd also like to be able to rematch trainers with their level improving to what is appropriate.


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## Zhariel (Jun 26, 2013)

I usually don't mind because most teams benefit greatly from a solid pokemon of those available types, but there's no reason why they can't switch it up to another trio.


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## Stunna (Jun 26, 2013)

I have absolutely no issue with the starters being Fire, Grass, and Water.


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## Hellblazer (Jun 26, 2013)

Well,the main games having the formulaic starters isn't so bad but they should change them up for side or reamkes to spice things up a bit.


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## Yami Munesanzun (Jun 28, 2013)

what would be interesting would be a "path chooser" sort of deal.

even switch to another "path" later on in the game.

like..decide to be part of the evil syndicate, but about halfway through, decide to betray them. 

or keep going on through with it.

something like that. among various other "occupations"


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## blueblip (Jul 3, 2013)

Yami Munesanzun said:


> what would be interesting would be a "path chooser" sort of deal.
> 
> even switch to another "path" later on in the game.
> 
> ...


Funnily enough, this would actually be more in line with how the games are played, considering players love to catch as many pokemon as they can. For example, in Platinum, I still find it weird that you're trying to stop the Big Bad from catching Giratina, but *you end up doing the very same thing!*

Oh, and one minor quibble of mine: I hope the new pokemon designs are more like pokemon and less like digimon. B/W was weird that way.


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## Linkdarkside (Jul 7, 2013)

i rather have Fire, Grass, and Water starters stay for the main games for spin off they could try different.


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## BlazingCobaltX (Jul 8, 2013)

RandomLurker said:


> I would gladly accept a non-formulaic Pok?mon game, but I don't think the genwunners would.


I am not a genwunner at all, but I wouldn't like that either. I kinda like the formula of the fire-grass-water starters because IMO they're the simplest types to begin with and easy to understand(as in strengths and weaknesses). 

Starting with a different formula could be fun, but I know that I wouldn't like it that much.


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## KidTony (Jul 8, 2013)

you guys should all have your pokefan cards revoked forever. Speaking such blasphemies in this thread. SMH


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## Rika24 (Aug 4, 2013)

I love the grass fire water tradition (mainly because i always start with fire as its my fav type)

But im happy that they are FINALLY giving great secondary typings (fire/psy? 2 fav types in one! Now all we need is a fire/electric combo

Although, i wish some of the older pokes could get type changes, mostly Charizard (fire/dragon please? Seriously, if it looks like a dragon and can learn some dragin attacks then why isnt it a freakin dragon?! same can be said for Gyarados, we need some water dragons) And Ninetales as fire/ghost or fire/psy, why? Have you read her game description? 

A serious change id like to see is an ability to actually continue from one game to another. I mean where you can link you previous gameplay to a new game. Kinda like how they did it with white2/black2, only it actually continues your journey into a new region. The only difference is that the gyms and wild pokemon equal your team levels so you cant cheat with higher level pokemon

And another change id like to see is an option to up the risks, like having a nuzlocke option you can turn on.

Or the biggest change of all, no collecting badges, but a full on survival game (i mean something similar to digimon) or even pokemon colosseum. Just anything other than the usual beat the gym leader and league.

Maybe even something like digimon dusk and dawn where you're a member of a team with already chosen high level pokemon, only you have to deal with a supposed evil team, which isnt evil at all that was really just set up to take the heat off the real bad guy.

And also like digimon dusk and dawn (sunburst and moonlight in japan) the two versions could have you on either team depending on the version


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## Mr. Obvious (Aug 17, 2013)

you know what would be cool a character whos dream for once isnt to beat the elite fucking four! Maybe someones whos dream is to become a gym leader or something and have to plot revolve around completing the requirements to become a gym leader they can even add some continuity to it and have the character in that game be a gym leader in a future game or just some things similiar to that just to keep things fresh


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## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (Aug 17, 2013)

In pokemon there are only two PROPER type trinities, the first being Grass Water Fire.

Lets see if you can figure out the second and no its not Fighting,Dark,Psychic


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## Sunrider (Aug 17, 2013)

Why do proper type trinities matter? 


Mr. Obvious said:


> you know what would be cool a character whos dream for once isnt to beat the elite fucking four! Maybe someones whos dream is to become a gym leader or something and have to plot revolve around completing the requirements to become a gym leader they can even add some continuity to it and have the character in that game be a gym leader in a future game or just some things similiar to that just to keep things fresh


That would be cool. Maybe take over a gym from gym leader already in the game, or creating a gym from pre-selected options, taking on challengers once or twice a day. 

Maybe even online challenges where players collect each other's badges.


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## Saru (Aug 17, 2013)

the gym leader idea as an addition would be awesome. in other words, GF could add more options to the gameplay while not subtracting much from the current formula.

one thing I would love to see--and I'm not sure how alone I am on this one because I don't see many people ask for it--is multiple .sav files per game. I can't remember the last time I played a game that didn't have multiple save files that I could load. that could be a small but significant step towards adopting a more modern platform.


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## Sunrider (Aug 17, 2013)

Astrαl said:


> one thing I would love to see--and I'm not sure how alone I am on this one because I don't see many people ask for it--is multiple .sav files per game. I can't remember the last time I played a game that didn't have multiple save files that I could load. that could be a small but significant step towards adopting a more modern platform.


DEAR GODS YES

I remember the first time I played Pokemon, how it's play reminded me so much of Zelda... 

... except for the lack of save files. I never understood that. I can only imagine it's a sales tactic.


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## Nep Nep (Aug 18, 2013)

St NightRazr said:


> In pokemon there are only two PROPER type trinities, the first being Grass Water Fire.
> 
> Lets see if you can figure out the second and no its not Fighting,Dark,Psychic



Is it Grass/Poison/Ground?


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## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (Aug 18, 2013)

Ding ding ding^


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## Nep Nep (Aug 18, 2013)

St NightRazr said:


> Ding ding ding^



;P that would give the player who picks the Poison Pokemon the proper advantage against rivals BUT... otherwise Poison is a bitch to use and it's only super effective against one type! 

I'll stick with Fire/Water/Grass


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## St. YatōKiri_Kilgharrah (Aug 18, 2013)

Actually now that I think about it , there is another.

Bah I forget


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## Nep Nep (Aug 18, 2013)

St NightRazr said:


> Actually now that I think about it , there is another.
> 
> Bah I forget



I got this 8U I'll be back with the answer! 

Oh! Steel/Fire/Rock! 

Fire>Steel>Rock (Strong) 

Steel>Rock>Fire (Weak) 

or to make it clearer 

Fire beats Steel, Steel beats Rock, Rock beats Fire. 

Fire is weak on Rock, Rock is weak on Steel, Steel is weak on Fire. 

I would like to see this trio! All of those types are viable. 

OH! and there's also Fighting/Flying/Rock  

Fighting beats Rock, Flying beats Fighting, Rock beats Flying. 

Fighting is weak on Flying, Flying is weak on Rock, Rock is weak on Fighting.


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## Sunrider (Aug 18, 2013)

I could stand to see Water/Ground/Thunder.


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## Nep Nep (Aug 18, 2013)

The Ninth Doctor said:


> I could stand to see Water/Ground/Thunder.



That one's not a perfect trio though. 

Water beats Ground, Thunder beats Water, Ground beats Thunder

It's good there but not in defense 

Water is normally effective against Thunder, Thunder cannot effect Ground, Ground is normally effective against Water. 

Thunder is at a disadvantage and is screwed defensively and so is Water. 

Water can be hurt by everyone, Thunder can be hurt by everyone, Ground can't be hurt by Thunder 

So far the fair choices are 

Water/Fire/Grass 

Grass/Poison/Ground 

Steel/Fire/Rock 

Fighting/Flying/Rock 

Imo if I wanted a change I'd go with Steel/Fire/Rock


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## Drunkenwhale (Aug 28, 2013)

The type's name is Electric guys, Thunder is a move.

And yeah, that's really one of the only reasons it's still the Fire/Grass/Water typings instead of something different is because there's not a defensive disadvantage unlike other typings.

Nevermind Green Red and Blue are easily recognizable colors to associate with the types...



But insisting that simply a change in starter types isn't going to fix some of the problems that Pokemon needs to fix, not even in the slightest.


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## Nep Nep (Aug 28, 2013)

Drunkenwhale said:


> The type's name is Electric guys, Thunder is a move.
> 
> And yeah, that's really one of the only reasons it's still the Fire/Grass/Water typings instead of something different is because there's not a defensive disadvantage unlike other typings.
> 
> ...



I'm aware of the name of the type, I just don't really care. 

Sea/Lawn/Flame >;] 

Been playing Pokemon since I was 5, so 15 years don't worry I know 8D


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## Catalyst75 (Aug 28, 2013)

Kunoichi gal said:


> Here's an article I found:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The formula is meant to give new players an easy introduction to the mechanics of battle in Pok?mon.  Grass beats Water, Water beats Fire, and Fire beats Grass.  It is a tradition of Pok?mon to have those three types be the starters.  There are even unique moves only the starter Pok?mon can learn now - Hydro Cannon, Blast Burn, and Frenzy Plant.


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## Nep Nep (Aug 28, 2013)

Catalyst75 said:


> The formula is meant to give new players an easy introduction to the mechanics of battle in Pok?mon.  Grass beats Water, Water beats Fire, and Fire beats Grass.  It is a tradition of Pok?mon to have those three types be the starters.  There are even unique moves only the starter Pok?mon can learn now - Hydro Cannon, Blast Burn, and Frenzy Plant.



They could use any of the trinities I listed, they all make sense. 

In real life, fire burns plants and plants grown from water and overtake it while water douses fire. 

Grass overtakes and grows from the ground, poison kills plants and poison has no effect on dirt.  

Steel can smash rocks, fire can melt steel, rocks can cover and put out fires. 

Flying organisms can be easily hurt by rocks, karate people can break rocks and you can't fight a bird ;P. 

They can apply it to any of those trinities they don't really have an excuse for it being easier. Nintendo just wants to play it safe like always.


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## Fenrir (Aug 28, 2013)

Think of it like this.

Instead of Rock Paper Scissors, why don't we use Gun Bomb Whatever-The-Fuck-The-Third-One-Is?

It's essentially the same thing but with elements.


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## Nep Nep (Aug 28, 2013)

Alpha~13 said:


> Think of it like this.
> 
> Instead of Rock Paper Scissors, why don't we use Gun Bomb Whatever-The-Fuck-The-Third-One-Is?
> 
> It's essentially the same thing but with elements.



Exactly as long as the trinity is proper it doesn't matter. 

Fire>Steel>Rock  is no different than Grass>Water>Fire


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## ElementX (Aug 29, 2013)

At this point its just tradition, the type trinity factors very little into the overall game. 

That said, you could knock XY for having the same ol' starters, but they've been changing the game with pretty much everything else.


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## emersennin (Oct 7, 2013)

i do hope that there are way more gyms and the pokemon league is a tournament. they coul have more elite 4 members for like trial keepers to ensure balance in participants. they could also make a wireless pokemon league.


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## Masaki (Oct 23, 2013)

Honestly, I'm most annoyed at the loss of difficulty over the years.  I feel like it's a big kick in the face after struggling with gym leaders like Misty and Whitney (hell, most of the Johto gym leaders gave me trouble back in the day) that we eventually got the embarrassing gyms in Unova (the solution for the first gym is literally handed to you in BW), and they haven't gotten much better since.  I seriously try to go easy on them - don't switch between KOs, either use no items or the same items they use - and I'm still having a much easier time than I used to.  I remember getting destroyed by Cynthia the first time I faced her, as well as Ghetis.  The champion for this gen... so disappointing.


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