# Kaido Pirates+ Big Mom Pirates vs Marineford



## KefkaPalazzo (Sep 27, 2014)

This is a speculative thread. Basically 2 yonko crews vs Marine forces during Marineford. Who wins?


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## CaptainCommanderRenji (Sep 27, 2014)

Maybe if both of their first mates are solid Admiral / Yonko level. Even then the Marines would most likely win.


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## Crocodile Atlas (Sep 27, 2014)

Big Mom AND Kaido> Whitebeard, but even then still I doubt they have the amount of quality officers that Whitebeard had given his influence and such. I doubt that anyone under Kaido or Big Mom is on Marco's level and while the two of them pose a bigger threat than Whitebeard, the marines still take this with a tad bit more difficulty.


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## Orca (Sep 27, 2014)

Under the assumption that Kaido and BM's crews are weaker than WB's and that Mihawk, Garp and Sengoku will be serious and active in the war, I see the two yonkos losing in a death match. 

Three Yonkos would beat the marines though.


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## Luke (Sep 27, 2014)

The marines barely win.


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## Gohara (Sep 27, 2014)

I would probably say the two Yonkou crews would win.  They'll likely have at least 1-2 Division Commanders each that are Admiral level.  They themselves should be able to defeat Sengoku and Garp after a lot of difficulty.  At that point it would be the rest of the Division Commanders vs. the Shichibukai and other marines.


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## convict (Sep 27, 2014)

To me it depends entirely on whether the Shichibukai actually fight to their potential or not. If the Shichibukai are in character then I give it to the two Yonkou crews. This may seem weird seeing as the marine HQ has 5 admiral level fighters, but if we take into account the depth of the Yonkou crew it is manageable. There are 5 top tiers in the marines. Akainu and Aokiji can be cancelled out by the Yonkou captains themselves (meaning that whoever wins won't be doing any more fighting). Yonkou first mates are capable of hanging with admirals. So if there is one Marco level fighter each and also one Vista level fighter each, they can take care of 2 of the marine top tiers. That leaves one marine top tier left, and that one will not be able to beat two Jozu level fighters. The Shichibukai I see just playing around, and if things start getting bad for the marines they may even bolt.

What is left? The rest of the Yonkou commanders and allied captains against the Vice admirals. At this point it is blatantly obvious that the average Yonkou commander is stronger than the average vice admiral. Just compare Burgess and Bastille this arc. Bastille is one of the more recognized VAs too. Heck, the stronger Yonkou commanders could even contribute against the 5 marine admiral level fighters making it easier for the big guns on their side. 

Now if the Shichibukai contribute we have Mihawk, another venerable top tier that is unaccounted for in the above scenario, and Doflamingo who could still either provide strong support in the top tier duels, or clean house against the lesser commanders. Additionally we have Hancock and Jinbei as well. If this team is added to the marines it should definitely tip the scales. 

This question reminds me of the reason the Shichibukai system has been put in place. Pirates as a whole if joined together would overwhelm the marines. Overall MHQ and the Yonkou outshine the Shichibukai, but as a unit they are definitely significant enough to make a huge difference. The problem is that the Shichibukai just don't give a shit and abuse their power to do terrible things. In an ideal implementation of the system they could be integral in establishing marine dominance.

Of course if Big Mom and Kaido's crews are not as powerful as Whitebeard's the situation could be different. They should be at least comparable though considering they still competed with the Whitebeards even with convincingly weaker captains.


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## Samehadaman (Sep 27, 2014)

It must be taken into consideration that against Kaido and Big Mom we have a fully motivated Garp. When Whitebeard invaded Garp was mostly rooting for the other side, but Big Mom is the lady who burns down villages for not giving her candy and Kaido isn't supposed to be a cuddly bear either.


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## Peppoko (Sep 27, 2014)

Since we have no idea how strong they really are, I'll just pretend we have two Whitebeard-pirate crews in terms of strength.

2x yonko + 6x commander = 8x top tier
3x admiral + flee admiral + garp = 5 top tier

2x 13 commanders = 26 high tier
15 vice-admirals = 15 high tier

The rest is fodder, so I won't bother. From these numbers alone I can't see how the Navy is going to win this.


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## savior2005 (Sep 27, 2014)

marines with extreme diff if no warlords.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Sep 27, 2014)

Samehadaman said:


> *It must be taken into consideration that against Kaido and Big Mom we have a fully motivated Garp.* When Whitebeard invaded Garp was mostly rooting for the other side, but Big Mom is the lady who burns down villages for not giving her candy and Kaido isn't supposed to be a cuddly bear either.


This is a good point. I'll give it to the Marines simply because they'd have a bloodlusted Garp on their side.


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## Lawliet (Sep 28, 2014)

Peppoko said:


> Since we have no idea how strong they really are, I'll just pretend we have two Whitebeard-pirate crews in terms of strength.
> 
> 2x yonko + 6x commander = 8x top tier
> 3x admiral + flee admiral + garp = 5 top tier
> ...



You're forgetting the warlords. There's Mihawk who's an admiral level then you got Doflamingo and Hancock. And all the technology the marines got.


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## barreltheif (Sep 28, 2014)

Peppoko said:


> Since we have no idea how strong they really are, I'll just pretend we have two Whitebeard-pirate crews in terms of strength.
> 
> 2x yonko + 6x commander = 8x top tier
> 3x admiral + flee admiral + garp = 5 top tier




...what? The pirates have 2 top tiers - the yonkou - while the marines have 6 - the 3 admirals+Sengoku+Garp+Mihawk.


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## Suit (Sep 28, 2014)

oOLawlietOo said:


> You're forgetting the warlords. There's *Mihawk who's an admiral level* then you got Doflamingo and Hancock. And all the technology the marines got.



  

To be honest, the Marines have Admirals and that's about it. VAs are like low high-tiers; much weaker than the Admirals themselves. What it's going to boil down to is each Admiral fighting approximately two Top-Tiers each. And even if they are low Top-Tiers, an Admiral can't win against two. So there is a distinct possibility of the pirates winning.


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## Dunno (Sep 28, 2014)

Peppoko said:


> Since we have no idea how strong they really are, I'll just pretend we have two Whitebeard-pirate crews in terms of strength.
> 
> 2x yonko + 6x commander = 8x top tier
> 3x admiral + flee admiral + garp = 5 top tier
> ...


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## Luke (Sep 28, 2014)

If Shanks and Beckman show up after the battle's over though, so long marines.


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## Han Zolo (Sep 28, 2014)

Top-Tiers
Marines: 6 (Sengoku, Garp, Admirals, Mihawk)
Pirates: 6 at best (Kaido, Bigmam, two 1st Mates, two 2nd Mates)

High-Tiers
Marines: More than three dozen (Doflamingo, Hancock, Moria, Vice Admirals, Sentoumaru, Pacifista)
Pirates: ??? but I'm guessing not as much as the combined forces of the MHQ + Shichibukai. Maybe ~20 combined.

Fodders
Marines: 100.000 Elite Soldiers
Pirates: Maybe a couple thousand but not nearly as much as the Marines.


Marines take this. They got the stronger top-tiers, more high-tiers and way more fodder.


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## Patrick (Sep 28, 2014)

I'm pretty sure this will still go to the marines. 

Top Tiers:
Marines: 5 (Akainu, Aokiji, Kizaru, Mihawk and Garp)
Yonkou: 4 (Big Mom and Kaidou for sure, their First mates most likely as well)

Upper High Tiers:
Marines: 10~ (Sengoku, Doflamingo, Hancock, Kuma and a couple of the top VAs)
Yonkou: 4 (let's presume the overall strength of all Yonkou crews are the same then the second and third mates would fall into this category)

Lower than this level doesn't change the outcome much.

Marines would take this, 3 Yonkous is probably the minimum of winning Marineford.


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## Admiral Kizaru (Sep 28, 2014)

The Marines (WG) take this comfortably. Mid difficulty if that, probably closer to low. 

I honestly think you can add in another Yonko crew to make it 3 Yonkos vs the WG forces the WG would still take it. You need to have all four yonko crews for the WG to even have a chance of losing this. 

Three levels to look at in this particular matchup:

1) Fodder versus fodder on each side.

By their nature you're not going to a decisive early outcome here but I suspect the marines have more due to their size so eventually the numbers should prevail. 


2) Borderline top tiers and high tiers 
- (1st and 2nd Mates versus Doflamingo, Hancock, Elite VA's etc)

Seems much of a muchness here. Comparable numbers and levels, which would end up in a stalemate. If you really wanted to select one you may go for the first group but I don't think the difference is enough to manifest itself in time to make a difference in the outcome of the overall battle. 


3) Top Tiers
- Six certifiable top tiers on the WG side (Three admirals, Sengoku, Garp and Mihawk) versus only two on the other side (Two Yonkou).

This is where the WG's advantage is clear and decisive and where they win this. Established top tiers have constantly been depicted to be so far ahead of those below them by Oda that even having one "free" to roam about could be enough to swing the tide of the battle, let alone four. Essentially, a margin of four clear top tiers is humongous and could be used to either,

- Gang up on an opposing top tier and kill them quickly
- Clear the rest of the battlefield easily with their large AoE attacks




It's important to bear in mind that there won't be any of the plot BS that inhibited the marines in the Marineford arc because Oda wanted to keep some drama and tension instead of making even more of a one sided stomp for the marines. They'll be free to act sensibly and go out straight for the jugular from the off instead of faffing about. No conflicted Garp, no Garp and Sengoku held back, perhaps an actually serious Kizaru etc etc.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Sep 28, 2014)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> The Marines (WG) take this comfortably. Mid difficulty if that, probably closer to low.
> 
> I honestly think you can add in another Yonko crew to make it 3 Yonkos vs the WG forces the WG would still take it. You need to have all four yonko crews for the WG to even have a chance of losing this.
> 
> ...


OOC, what would you say about two Yonko crews vs the current Marines?


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## Suit (Sep 28, 2014)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> The Marines (WG) take this comfortably. Mid difficulty if that, probably closer to low.
> 
> I honestly think you can add in another Yonko crew to make it 3 Yonkos vs the WG forces the WG would still take it. You need to have all four yonko crews for the WG to even have a chance of losing this.
> 
> ...



Hey Gohara, what are your thoughts on this. 

I disagree by the way. Two Yonkou crews aren't getting low-diffed by shit. Kaido is the strongest in the world, and it will most certainly take more than one Admiral to take him down alone. Though I guess if Garp and Sengoku are included, then the odds do sway in the Marines favor. Add Shanks' crew to the mix and pirates win though.


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## Luke (Sep 28, 2014)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> The Marines (WG) take this comfortably. Mid difficulty if that, probably closer to low.
> 
> I honestly think you can add in another Yonko crew to make it 3 Yonkos vs the WG forces the WG would still take it. You need to have all four yonko crews for the WG to even have a chance of losing this.
> 
> ...



Even if I don't always agree with you, talk about a great poster. I wish you'd come around more often.


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## Admiral Kizaru (Sep 28, 2014)

Tea said:


> OOC, what would you say about two Yonko crews vs the current Marines?



Current marines (excluding Shichi but including Sakazuki) I see taking out two yonkou crews for similar reasons (more certifiable top tiers) but possibly going down to three yonkou crews (more likely a toss up).

Until Sakazuki is able to strengthen the marines more, it's probably important that they retain the services of the Shichi just to keep things nicely balanced. 

Got to wait a while longer for your wish Fujitora.


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## Suit (Sep 28, 2014)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> Current marines (excluding Shichi but including Sakazuki) I see taking out two yonkou crews for similar reasons (more certifiable top tiers) but possibly going down to three yonkou crews (more likely a toss up).
> 
> Until Sakazuki is able to strengthen the marines more, it's probably important that they retain the services of the Shichi just to keep things nicely balanced.
> 
> Got to wait a while longer for your wish Fujitora.



The Shichibukai are just to fill in the gap between VAs and Admirals to be honest. If they would just train the damn VAs instead of relying on unreliable pirates, then maybe they'd hold some truly solid ground. The Shichi are pretty much shit to the Admirals anyway.


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## Mike S (Sep 28, 2014)

oOLawlietOo said:


> There's Mihawk who's an admiral level.





Lucky Rue said:


>



How is this laughable?


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## StrawHat4Life (Sep 28, 2014)

Big Mom and Kaidou would still lose. It would taking nothing less than all four Emperors united to take down the combined might of the marines.


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## Ruse (Sep 28, 2014)

The Pirate Hunter said:


> How is this laughable?



Rue doesn't like Mihawk.


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## Suit (Sep 28, 2014)

ThatBlackGuy said:


> Rue doesn't like Mihawk.



I dislike bad grammar equally as much.


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## Ruse (Sep 28, 2014)

Lucky Rue said:


> I dislike bad grammar equally as much.



You know what I meant. 

So am I wrong?


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## Suit (Sep 28, 2014)

ThatBlackGuy said:


> You know what I meant.
> 
> So am I wrong?



Your grammar was fine. I was talking about L.


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## Ruse (Sep 28, 2014)

Lucky Rue said:


> Your grammar was fine. I was talking about L.



Oh nevermind then  

Dat CoO


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## Gohara (Sep 28, 2014)

@ Roo.

I posted my thoughts of the match up on the first page of this thread.

If you mean what are my thoughts on how Admiral Kizaru laid out the match up specifically, I would say that I simply respectfully disagree that the Admirals are a tier above the top Yonkou subordinates and top Shichibukai.  That is pretty much the foundation of our disagreement.  Plus, I think the person who made this thread was excluding the Shichibukai.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Sep 28, 2014)

Gohara said:


> I would probably say the two Yonkou crews would win.  They'll likely have at least 1-2 Division Commanders each that are Admiral level.  *They themselves should be able to defeat* Sengoku and *Garp* after a lot of difficulty.


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Sep 28, 2014)

I always wonder why people think old Sengoku can hang with the likes of Akainu and the Yonkou

To me his portrayal has always put him at Marco level


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## Gohara (Sep 28, 2014)

@ Issho.

Well, you're more than welcome to prove that old Garp is clearly stronger than Kaidou and Big Mam.


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## trance (Sep 28, 2014)

Lucky Rue said:


> Kaido is the strongest in the world, and it will most certainly take more than one Admiral to take him down alone.



Two Admirals nuke him with minimal trouble.


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## Dellinger (Sep 28, 2014)

No Yonko commander should be on the same level with Marco.WB's first mate is a special case.

The marines win.


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## barreltheif (Sep 28, 2014)

Tea said:


>




Why wouldn't Kaido be able to beat old Garp? That's one of the most sensible things that guy has said.




White Hawk said:


> No Yonko commander should be on the same level with Marco.WB's first mate is a special case.




Do you mean Marco is portrayed as weaker than a typical first mate, since he's only one of WB's "sons", rather than a "partner" like Zoro or Rayleigh or Beckman? Or do you mean that Marco is stronger than a typical yonkou first mate, since he's the first mate of the strongest man?


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## Dellinger (Sep 28, 2014)

barreltheif said:


> Why wouldn't Kaido be able to beat old Garp? That's one of the most sensible things that guy has said.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He is the first mate of the strongest man and he's been hyped up by the Gorosei themselves.


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## Peppoko (Sep 29, 2014)

oOLawlietOo said:


> You're forgetting the warlords. There's Mihawk who's an admiral level then you got Doflamingo and Hancock. And all the technology the marines got.


Well shit, you are indeed right my good sir 

2x yonko + 6x commander = 8x top tier
3x admiral + flee admiral + garp + Mihawk + Doflamingo + Hancock = 8 top tier

2x 13 commanders = 26 high tier
15 vice-admirals + Moria + Kuma = 17 high tier

Well this certainly looks much closer now 

Soooo let's see...
Two 1st mates and two admirals cross each other out imo. Doffy and Hancock can compete with a 2nd mate and a 3rd mate. I also think a 3rd mate can take on Sengoku, he just didn't impress me at all.
That leaves us with 2 yonko and a 2nd mate VS an admiral,Garp and Mihawk.

I'd still give it to the pirates, but it would be a really close battle, but I think two yonko and a 2nd mate should be able to win vs 3 admiral-level fighters.



barreltheif said:


> ...what? The pirates have 2 top tiers - the yonkou - while the marines have 6 - the 3 admirals+Sengoku+Garp+Mihawk.


If you think Marco, Jozu and Vista are not top-tier then we have nothing to discuss.


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## Vengeance (Sep 29, 2014)

The WG forces should win if the Shichibukai fight seriously. In the end what matters most is who has more absolute top level fighters and that's them with Akainu, Aokiji, Kizaru, Garp, Sengoku and Mihawk.


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## Admiral Kizaru (Sep 29, 2014)

Lucky Rue said:


> Kaido is the strongest in the world, and it will most certainly take more than one Admiral to take him down alone.



Strongest creature in the world, not the strongest individual.

The thing is that you could make a similar sort of statement about any of the top tiers here:

_Mihawk is the strongest swordsman in the world, and it will most certainly take more than one Yonkou to take him down alone._

_Akainu is the strongest marine in the world, and it will most certainly take more than one Yonkou to take him down alone._

etc etc

Even if you personally think that individually Kaido or BM could defeat any one of the top tiers on the WG side (I don't think that's true at all tbh), I think it can be agreed upon that they won't be in any condition to handle another one right after or three at the same time. 

The fact is that unless your name is either Prime Whitebeard or Prime Roger, you don't stand a chance of handling two certifiable top tiers let alone possibly defeating two or more of them at the same time. 

This really is a non contest as things stand. 



HisMajestyMihawk said:


> I always wonder why people think old Sengoku can hang with the likes of Akainu and the Yonkou
> 
> To me his portrayal has always put him at Marco level



Really?

One was depicted as an established leader of men and the largest organisation in the world, possessing decades of experiences and carrying his weight in the same era of prime Roger and WB. He commanded authority and respect from everyone in the world. 

And the other came across as not much more than yet another sycophantic underling in a company of them .... a Smithers to a Mr Burns. Who also has very little relevance in the story and probably won't feature again, only as a passing footnote most likely. 

Apart from the one weirdo individual in this thread, whose opinions seemed to derided by all sides, I think it's a pretty unequivocal consensus that Oda depicted Sengoku as the much more impressive character.




Peppoko said:


> If you think Marco, Jozu and Vista are not top-tier then we have nothing to discuss.



Jozu and Vista aren't top tier. 

Marco is probably low/borderline top tier at best. 


More importantly, why are you bringing them up at all here? This is the BM and Kaido Pirates versus the marines.


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## Peppoko (Sep 29, 2014)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> Jozu and Vista aren't top tier.


Well I say they are.



Admiral Kizaru said:


> Marco is probably low/borderline top tier at best.


Marco is the same level as the C3 imo.



Admiral Kizaru said:


> More importantly, why are you bringing them up at all here? This is the BM and Kaido Pirates versus the marines.


Because we haven't even SEEN the 1st, 2nd and 3rd mates of Kaido and Big Mom so taking Marco, Jozu and Vista in their places is the only way to decide this battle.


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## Admiral Kizaru (Sep 29, 2014)

Oh dear...


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## Magician (Sep 29, 2014)

>Mihawk
>Top tier


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## Vengeance (Sep 29, 2014)

Magician said:


> >Mihawk
> >Top tier



Come on, are you serious? :sanji


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## Lawliet (Sep 29, 2014)

People who don't think Mihawk is a top tier will eventually eat their own words. That's all I have to say


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## Deleted member 211714 (Oct 2, 2014)

If Garp, Mihawk and Sengoku fight, it can probably go either way.
That's also assuming their FMs can be scaled to Marco and Benn Beckman in strength.

Even though the pirates might be outnumbered, we have to factor in that Kaidou's crew is fucking powerful and will run over all fodder (aka VAs and soldiers who aren't top-tier material). From there, they can help take on the big guys.


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## Amol (Oct 3, 2014)

convict said:


> To me it depends entirely on whether the Shichibukai actually fight to their potential or not. If the Shichibukai are in character then I give it to the two Yonkou crews. This may seem weird seeing as the marine HQ has 5 admiral level fighters, but if we take into account the depth of the Yonkou crew it is manageable. There are 5 top tiers in the marines. Akainu and Aokiji can be cancelled out by the Yonkou captains themselves (meaning that whoever wins won't be doing any more fighting). Yonkou first mates are capable of hanging with admirals. So if there is one Marco level fighter each and also one Vista level fighter each, they can take care of 2 of the marine top tiers. That leaves one marine top tier left, and that one will not be able to beat two Jozu level fighters. The Shichibukai I see just playing around, and if things start getting bad for the marines they may even bolt.
> 
> What is left? The rest of the Yonkou commanders and allied captains against the Vice admirals. At this point it is blatantly obvious that the average Yonkou commander is stronger than the average vice admiral. Just compare Burgess and Bastille this arc. Bastille is one of the more recognized VAs too. Heck, the stronger Yonkou commanders could even contribute against the 5 marine admiral level fighters making it easier for the big guns on their side.
> 
> ...


Good Post.
Warlords makes all the difference here.
3 Yonkou will annihilate marines.


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## Valdie (Oct 3, 2014)

Big Mom's infinite supply of animated gingerbread soldiers will overwhelm the Marines!


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## Extravlad (Oct 3, 2014)

The pirates lose badly.
If it wasn't for Oars JR, the marines would have murdered all the WB pirates low difficulty because no one could break the wall.

Unless Bigmom and Kaido have a more destructive power than the Gura Gura (and we all know that it's not the case) then they don't stand a fucking chance


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## Chrollo Lucilfer (Oct 3, 2014)

Are the pirates saving Ace? If not they should go down with Extreme diff. Marines barely win


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## Gilgamesh (Oct 7, 2014)

And the Kaido+Big Mom underrating continues

The Marines were struggling with 1 Yonko crew+their allies. 2 Yonko+allies is overkill, Marines lose hard.

And lol@that guy who said Kaido and Big Mom won't have any Marco level crew members.


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## Dellinger (Oct 7, 2014)

How the hell were they struggling?Their strongest fighters were basically unhurt,Sengoku and Garp didn't participate in the fight and the stronger Shichibukai didn't do anything worthy.


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## savior2005 (Oct 8, 2014)

Gilgamesh said:


> And the Kaido+Big Mom underrating continues
> 
> The Marines were *struggling *with 1 Yonko crew+their allies. 2 Yonko+allies is *overkill*, Marines lose hard.
> 
> And lol@that guy who said Kaido and Big Mom won't have any Marco level crew members.



 garp sengoku and mihawk(3 top tiers) were basically doing nothing but standing (mihawk was clashing with vista but thinking about luffy). kizaru suffered no damage while aokiji barely got hurt. akainu also didnt even really lose. he fell into a pit and after returning, clashed with the WB pirates commanders.

fact is, 2 yonko is not enough to got against marine ford(with warlord). even without warlords, marines can possible still win.


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## GIORNO (Oct 8, 2014)

4+ top tiers vs. 2, you do the math.


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## Gohara (Oct 8, 2014)

-Garp said that it would be very tough taking on Whitebeard and old Rayleigh at the same time.

-When the prospect of fighting a second Yonkou crew came up, some of the marines got scared and Sengoku agreed to stop the war.

Given that, I could very well see two Yonkou crews defeating the marines and Shichibukai.  I'm not necessarily saying they would, but it's very possible that they would.


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## LyricalMessiah (Oct 8, 2014)

So Big mom, a yonkou and kaido, a fellow yonkou, added with their whole entire crew of which consist of a 'few' fighters generally above a few of the shishibukais (A rank consisting of folks like Mihawk, Doflamingo and Hancock) against Garp, Sengoku, the three admirals, Vice admirals and fodders? Well this should be interesting. 

I'd lean towards the marines with high extreme difficulty.


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## Gilgamesh (Oct 9, 2014)

> 4+ top tiers vs. 2, you do the math.



Kaido and Big mom's first+second mates aren't top tier?

Why people still think this i have no idea, maybe you just overrate WB and Red Hair pirates too much.


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## Lord Melkor (Oct 10, 2014)

I agree that it could be close even with Warlords doing all they can, since while Marines have more solid top tiers, the Yonkou and allies will have more borderline top tiers and strong high tiers (high level Yonkou commanders/allies seem stronger than Vice Admirals).


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## barreltheif (Oct 10, 2014)

Gilgamesh said:


> Kaido and Big mom's first+second mates aren't top tier?
> 
> Why people still think this i have no idea, maybe you just overrate WB and Red Hair pirates too much.




Why would Kaido and Big Mam have top tier subordinates when WB didn't?
(By "top tier" we mean admiral level or higher, if that's not clear.)


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## Canute87 (Oct 10, 2014)

barreltheif said:


> Why would Kaido and Big Mam have top tier subordinates when WB didn't?
> (By "top tier" we mean admiral level or higher, if that's not clear.)



I thought Marco and Josu were admiral level fighters.


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## Gilgamesh (Oct 10, 2014)

Marco, Jozu and Vista are top tier imo.


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## Luke (Oct 10, 2014)

A Top Tier doesn't get one shotted by another Top Tier because they got distracted.


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## Canute87 (Oct 10, 2014)

Luke said:


> A Top Tier doesn't get one shotted by another Top Tier because they got distracted.



They get one shotted if top tier has a one shot DF,


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## convict (Oct 10, 2014)

Luke said:


> A Top Tier doesn't get one shotted by another Top Tier because they got distracted.



If someone, no, _anyone_ gets distracted and fails to defend himself  against Akainu he can theoretically get his head melted off. I can envision similar scenarios of devastation with other people as well.

Also keep in mind that Jozu wasn't _necessarily_ oneshotted. He didn't get completely frozen until some panels later even though that one distraction was enough for Aokiji to lay the clinical blow to put the fight squarely in his favor. Jozu may have struggled a bit more before getting the the popsicle treatment.


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