# Mewtwo vs Shadow



## Cygnus45 (Nov 3, 2011)

I'll just leave this here. Archie feats are banned.

Location: hyrule temple
Distance: 500 meters
State of mind: bloodlusted.


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## sonic546 (Nov 3, 2011)

Base Shadow would get mind raped. 

IDK about Super Shadow though.


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## Monna (Nov 3, 2011)

I doubt this is Super Shadow. Mewtwo lacks the ability to kill Super Shadow since he survived atmospheric re-entry. 

Shadow could win if he utilized chaos control properly and combined it with chaos blast, but Mewtwo is still a fucking psychic beast who could end the fight right away if he wanted to.

At least one chaos emerald is part of Shadow's standard equipment, right? I mean, he uses chaos powers so often.


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## sonic546 (Nov 3, 2011)

Paul the SK said:


> I doubt this is Super Shadow. Mewtwo lacks the ability to kill Super Shadow since he survived atmospheric re-entry.
> 
> Shadow could win if he utilized chaos control properly and combined it with chaos blast, but Mewtwo is still a fucking psychic beast who could end the fight right away if he wanted to.
> 
> At least one chaos emerald is part of Shadow's standard equipment, right? I mean, he uses chaos powers so often.



He can use Chaos Control without an Emerald, but it's limited to short-range teleportation at best.

Chaos Blast and Chaos Spear can be used without an Emerald IIRC.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 3, 2011)

Its as simple as this: if he has an emerald, he wins, otherwise, he loses


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## Monna (Nov 3, 2011)

sonic546 said:


> He can use Chaos Control without an Emerald, but it's limited to short-range teleportation at best.
> 
> Chaos Blast and Chaos Spear can be used without an Emerald IIRC.


I see. It's been awhile since I played Sonic Adventure 2, Shadow the Hedgehog, and Sonic the Hedgehog (2006)

Also, I always thought of chaos control as either a time stop or a time slow-down, Not teleportation. However with Sonic canon, the rules could have been rewritten. The feat with Sonic (using a fake chaos emerald) warping out of the space pod in SA2 shows teleportation, how ever in Shadow the Hedgehog it's just shown as Shadow moving extremely fast.


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## Calamity (Nov 3, 2011)

What's Shadow's best speed feat? Depending on it, he might be able to blitz.


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## DarkLord Omega (Nov 3, 2011)

Shadow has resisted mindfuck, mewtwo aint gonna win


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## Sol_Blackguy (Nov 3, 2011)

MohsinMan99 said:


> What's Shadow's best speed feat? Depending on it, he might be able to blitz.



The thing about the game series they lack strong speed feats compared to the Archie, Sonic X, and even the OVA.

Well they confirmed that Game Sonic moves faster than mach 1 and Shadow can keep up with him. He also dodge machine guns in Sonic Heroes, and lets not forget the Light Speed Attack. Taking off his limiter would make him faster. 

and don't forget Chaos Control that might help in this fight


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## Francesco. (Nov 3, 2011)

Shadow dont deserve this


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## DarkLord Omega (Nov 3, 2011)

Mewtwo has no good speedfeat. He's gonna get blitz.


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## Soledad Eterna (Nov 3, 2011)

Base Shadow loses. He lacks the power to take on Mewtwo. Super Shadow wins though.


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## DarkLord Omega (Nov 3, 2011)

What feat does Mewtwo have of surviving chaos rift?


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## Solrac (Nov 3, 2011)

Mewtwo mindrapes.


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## Calamity (Nov 3, 2011)

Shadow wins.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 3, 2011)

Mewtwo ain't gonna do much but lose his head if Shadow stops time. :/
Hell, depending on the amount of emeralds, i'd say shadow could port him into the sun.


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## DarkLord Omega (Nov 3, 2011)

Asassin said:


> Mewtwo mindrapes.



Unlikely when he resisted mind rape


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## feebas_factor (Nov 3, 2011)

Why are people saying Mewtwo gets blitzed? All he has to do is put a psychic shield around himself and Shadow pretty much can't touch him, regardless of how fast he is, even if he slows down time.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 3, 2011)

First, he stops time, not slows it.
Second, he could
A) teleport inside the shield
b) blow that fucker up
C) Port mewtwo into the sun


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## DarkLord Omega (Nov 3, 2011)

Shadow: "Chaos Control."
*slows time*
*Mewtwo tries to put up a shield*
"Chaos Blast and rift"
*Blasts Mewtwo then banishes him in another dimension*


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## Dandy Elegance (Nov 3, 2011)

Asassin said:


> Mewtwo mindrapes.



Fancy seeing you here.

lol Asassin.


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## DestinyDestroyer (Nov 3, 2011)

Asassin said:


> Mewtwo mindrapes.



How exactly


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## Eldritch Sukima (Nov 3, 2011)

Am I forgetting a feat here? When did Black Doom show psychic powers on Mewtwo's level?


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## sonic546 (Nov 3, 2011)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> Am I forgetting a feat here? When did Black Doom show psychic powers on Mewtwo's level?



I was just thinking the same thing...


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## feebas_factor (Nov 3, 2011)

Personally I think Shadow would probably win with a few Emeralds. But he's not friggin' omnipotent without them, jeez...



Azrael Finalstar said:


> First, he stops time, not slows it.
> Second, he could
> A) teleport inside the shield
> b) blow that fucker up



What, so he gets to start the match with time frozen but Mewtwo doesn't get to start with shields up?

And why would you put up a psychic shield with space inside it. It's not a physical shield you can sneak "inside", you surround yourself with psychic energy.



Eldritch Sukima said:


> Am I forgetting a feat here? When did Black Doom show psychic powers on Mewtwo's level?



I know. I feel like I'm missing some insane feats here too. Either that or people are assuming Shadow gets a fuckton of emeralds? Based on stuff like:



Azrael Finalstar said:


> C) Port mewtwo into the sun


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## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 4, 2011)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> Am I forgetting a feat here? When did Black Doom show psychic powers on Mewtwo's level?



Considering he psychically controls an entire race, thats arguably more impressive actually.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Nov 4, 2011)

Azrael Finalstar said:


> Considering he psychically controls an entire race, thats arguably more impressive actually.



When was that stated?


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## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 4, 2011)

That he controls all of the Black Arms?


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## Eldritch Sukima (Nov 4, 2011)

Azrael Finalstar said:


> That he controls all of the Black Arms?



That he controls them all simultaneously with mind control, yes.


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## Glorioesrain (Nov 4, 2011)

Since it hasen't been adressed yet, it's safe to assume that shadow cant get around this barrier, ey friend's? I also demand proof that Black Doom can mind-warp on Mewtwo's scale, or even possesses the psychic capacity to match Mewtwo's psychic feat's on sound minded, animated lifeform's, not mere mindless construct's of his own power.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 4, 2011)

1. i thought it was stated in game somewhere. Maybe it wasn't, but even if he can't, resisting mindfuck at all is enough to give shadow time to win
2. He could get around that barrier many different ways.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Nov 4, 2011)

Azrael Finalstar said:


> 1. i thought it was stated in game somewhere. Maybe it wasn't, but even if he can't, resisting mindfuck at all is enough to give shadow time to win



I'm not sure you came to that conclusion. Resisting Black Doom's mind control doesn't mean he can resist much more powerful telepathy. It also doesn't mean he'll be in a position to counter attack or do much of anything.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 4, 2011)

The best mind control Mewtwo ever showed was removing memories and getting controll of a Nurse Joy.


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## sonic546 (Nov 4, 2011)

I think it was heavily implied, but not outright stated, that the Black Arms were a hivemind, with Black Doom as the "brain".


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## Glorioesrain (Nov 4, 2011)

What's preventing Mewtwo from wiping his memory? It's happened before hasent it? Oh and explain how exactly he penetrate's Mewtwo's barrier. any feat's to suggest that?


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## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 4, 2011)

Glorioesrain said:


> What's preventing Mewtwo from wiping his memory? It's happened before hasent it? Oh and explain how exactly he penetrate's Mewtwo's barrier. any feat's to suggest that?


he doesn't need to penetrate it, he could just teleport inside it.


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## Glorioesrain (Nov 4, 2011)

How does he warp into a psychic energy field exactly? I can see shadow possibly being crushed or repelled attempting that, I mean there isn't some space withing the barrier that's hospitible for other entities, the barrier encompasses him to his very skin. /-=_=-\


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## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 4, 2011)

No it doesn't, its a sphere.


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## Glorioesrain (Nov 4, 2011)

I agree, a sphere formed completely around him, no space within said sphere for guests'. Small, compact psychic field, not limited to a psychic bubble/shell


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## sonic546 (Nov 4, 2011)

Glorioesrain said:


> I agree, a sphere formed completely around him, no space within said sphere for guests'.



Prove this, if you would be so kind.


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## Glorioesrain (Nov 4, 2011)

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> ------- As you can see it's a ball of compressed psychic energy down to Mew & Mewtwo's very body, in which is no department for friend's. Btw im not to familiar with posting youtube vids here, how do I post that correctly?


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## sonic546 (Nov 4, 2011)

...

I want that 2 minutes and 15 seconds of my life back.


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## Glorioesrain (Nov 4, 2011)

I Couldnt find a vid of just the barrier. either way it definately function's as an actual psychic field as you can see for yourself.


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## feebas_factor (Nov 4, 2011)

Why in the world would Mewtwo construct a "hollow sphere" of psychic force instead of just surrounding himself with psychic energy? That makes no sense as a defense mechanism.

Anyway, looking through some terrible quality videos for evidence of the latter:

Faudo just does this blue aura surrounds him, pushes everyone back
Faudo just does this  uses repulsive psychic force all around himself
Faudo just does this using the entire psychic "shield" offensively, obviously it's not just a hollow defensive layer
While we're passing around burdens of proof, you're welcome to prove anyone or anything can actually get inside his shields while they're up without having to match his psychic power.

If Shadow wants to touch Mewtwo, he's gotta brute force his way through both psychic shields and mindrape.

EDIT:


Glorioesrain said:


> <iframe width="420" height="315" src="" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> ------- As you can see it's a ball of compressed psychic energy down to Mew & Mewtwo's very body, in which is no department for friend's. Btw im not to familiar with posting youtube vids here, how do I post that correctly?



I'm guessing this is the specific part you're referring to:

Faudo just does this


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## Glorioesrain (Nov 4, 2011)

Hmm, Since this is a battle of priority, Mewtwo has no pity against using "disable" on shadow, which would render Shadow powerless yes?He definately used that ability on "all" of the pokemon present within the stadium, without notible effort


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## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 4, 2011)

You're trying to argue him using Disable, really?


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## Glorioesrain (Nov 4, 2011)

Isn't "Disable" legit?


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## feebas_factor (Nov 4, 2011)

Glorioesrain said:


> Isn't "Disable" legit?



Generally... game mechanics like that aren't considered applicable feats until their effects are seen in anime/manga/whatever, because otherwise they're limited to the framework of the in-game universe. Same reason you can't just claim protect blocks any Pokemon from any attack no matter how powerful.

If disable has been shown at some point in the anime then its effects from there are fair game,  I just don't remember when it's ever showed up.


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## Glorioesrain (Nov 4, 2011)

In Pokemon The First Movie actualy, Mewtwo disabled every pokemon within the battledome's (stadium) inherent abilities as he saw fit, regardless of their type (minipulating psychic's aswell).This remained in effect until he established a new resolve from witnessing Ash's selfless sacrifice for his Pokemon, then he set them free from his control.


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## Cygnus45 (Nov 4, 2011)

-Mewtwo's barrier does seem to be solid all the way through based on the vid posted. I doubt Shadow could port inside of it without hurting himself.

-Since he actually used disable in the anime, I'd say it could end up winning him the match (disabling Shadow's speed, then frying him).

Seems to be in Mewtwo's favor, at least for the anime version vs base shadow.


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## Glorioesrain (Nov 4, 2011)

So, we can agree that Mewtwo is the victor due to his priority and callibur over shadow.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 4, 2011)

No.
What reason would his barrier hold up against repeated attacks from Shadow, especially if he takes his limiters off? none. Mewtwo only wins if shadow is emeraldless, which is a rare thing indeed.


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## DarkLord Omega (Nov 4, 2011)

What is stopping Shadow from using chaos control right off the bat then chaos blast or rift?


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## Glorioesrain (Nov 4, 2011)

Lol thumbs up@ DarkLord. Yeeeaaaa, Disable would take care of those flashy abilities from the jump.


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## sonic546 (Nov 4, 2011)

I don't recall Mewtwo ever using Disable in the movie or anime. Somebody post this feat.


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## Emerald Chaos (Nov 4, 2011)

Mewtwo wins.

Via blitzing Alakazam, he should have speed in the bag. 
Shadow has nothing on getting through his psychic shields.
Chaos Control doesn't have the kind of feats to send someone to, say, the sun.

@Azreal Finalstar: Shadow with his limiters off is virtually featless. All we know is that he powers up and not to what extent.

@Gloreosrain: Metwo being faster than Shadow. At the very least Mewtwo will be able to create a shield which will block Chaos Blast. Chaos Rift is 1: an in gameplay only skill, IIRC. He's never used it outside of it. 2) A Sonic Chronicles ability, thus meaning it's non-canon to the main series games (I think the OP was only going for main series Shadow and not an amalgamation )).

@Sonic546: Mewtwo may not have used the move "Disable" per-se. But he and Mew blocked their respective sides from using any of their special techniques when the big fight started.

That should just about cover everything. Shadow wins if he gets to go Super and that's that.


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## Dandy Elegance (Nov 4, 2011)

As shitty as Shadow is, this thread is just...


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## DarkLord Omega (Nov 4, 2011)

Mewtwo is not faster than Shadow, what are you smoking?

Chaos Control then Chaos Blast


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## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 4, 2011)

We should have made this Anime versions only, they have more concrete feats.
Then again, that version of Shadow would rape....


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## DestinyDestroyer (Nov 4, 2011)

Seems people are getting a little frustrated here.


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## DarkLord Omega (Nov 4, 2011)

Azrael Finalstar said:


> We should have made this Anime versions only, they have more concrete feats.
> Then again, that version of Shadow would rape....



Only archie feats are banned so anime/game feats are allowed. Shadow speedblitz plus Chaos Blast/Control/Rift


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## Uncle Phantom (Nov 4, 2011)

sonic546 said:


> I don't recall Mewtwo ever using Disable in the movie or anime. Somebody post this feat.



The movie has the feat.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 5, 2011)

DarkLord Omega said:


> Only archie feats are banned so anime/game feats are allowed. Shadow speedblitz plus Chaos Blast/Control/Rift


So wait, he has his X feats?
its not even a fight anymore, its a pure stomp.


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## Cygnus45 (Nov 5, 2011)

What did Shadow do in the anime that makes this a stomp?


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## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 5, 2011)

He beat the fuck out of Sonic, Knuckles, and Tails.
Sonic outran lightning prior do the math.
Also, Shadow was able to destroy an entire metarex fleet with a single physical blow.


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## DarkLord Omega (Nov 5, 2011)

And with that Mewtwo gets stomped. Lets see Mewtwo fans find their way out of this one.


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## Calamity (Nov 5, 2011)

DarkLord Omega said:


> And with that Mewtwo gets stomped. Lets see Mewtwo fans find their way out of this one.



*WHAT ARE YOU SAYING?* Mewtwo has an IQ of 5000+ and created a planetary lifewiping storm with just a flick of his fingers and has a Sp.Atk of 154, even higher than Dialga and Palkia who are universal level. Oh, and even higher than Arceus, the god who created the multiverse and his thoughts are FTL so Shadow loses before he even reacts and...

...Oh, who am I kidding?


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## Gomu (Nov 5, 2011)

MohsinMan99 said:


> *WHAT ARE YOU SAYING?* Mewtwo has an IQ of 5000+ and created a planetary lifewiping storm with just a flick of his fingers and has a Sp.Atk of 154, even higher than Dialga and Palkia who are universal level. Oh, and even higher than Arceus, the god who created the multiverse and his thoughts are FTL so Shadow loses before he even reacts and...
> 
> ...Oh, who am I kidding?



Lol Mohsin. Seriously, all he has to do is take off his limiters or have an emerald, chaos control (he can do it without the emeralds it is just for shorter bursts and he becomes more fatigued) and then does a pointblank chaos blast. It's not that hard. Hell Shadow will fucking own Mewtwo with a flick of his wrist by turning on Chaos control and stationing chaos spears for shits and giggles releasing them on mewtwo when he feels ready to.


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## feebas_factor (Nov 5, 2011)

So apparently Mewtwo is back to having absolutely no durability or forms of defence or reaction capacity or disabling techniques. Again.



Azrael Finalstar said:


> He beat the fuck out of Sonic, Knuckles, and Tails.
> Sonic outran lightning prior do the math.



If you assume that he beat them with speed, then you have successfully proven that... Shadow is faster than lightning. Congratulations. Because that's obviously what was being debated.



Azrael Finalstar said:


> Also, Shadow was able to destroy an entire metarex fleet with a single physical blow.



It would be appreciated if you could post a link to this so we can actually get a sense of how much power is required for such a feet.


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## DarkLord Omega (Nov 6, 2011)




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## Mappa Douji (Nov 6, 2011)

Why not use the actual canon? Which are the games. But Sonic Adventure and such have been retconned by the new game. So good luck finding something good.


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## sonic546 (Nov 6, 2011)

Mappa Douji said:


> Why not use the actual canon? Which are the games. But Sonic Adventure and such have been retconned by the new game. So good luck finding something good.



What the fuck? Mind explaining this bullshit?


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## Mappa Douji (Nov 6, 2011)

Think of it like this. Sonic X is to Sonic as Superman the animated series is to Superman.
Sonic Adventure 1&2 and the like are to Sonic as Pre crisis Superman is to Superman.

Well, basically. But they retconned the games. The anime was never canon to begin with. It only has things based in canon at some points. It's as canon as dbz filler really.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Nov 6, 2011)

Proof of this would be nice.

Perfect Chaos shows up in Sonic Generations, after all, and that's the most recent game in the series if I'm not mistaken. How exactly were the Adventure games retconned?


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## Kamen Rider Godzilla (Nov 6, 2011)

Mappa Douji said:


> Think of it like this. Sonic X is to Sonic as Superman the animated series is to Superman.
> Sonic Adventure 1&2 and the like are to Sonic as Pre crisis Superman is to Superman.
> 
> Well, basically. But they retconned the games. The anime was never canon to begin with. It only has things based in canon at some points. It's as canon as dbz filler really.



Only Archie Shadow was banned.  With no version specified any version can be used, thus the Sonic X Shadow is just as legitimate in this match as game Shadow.

Also, since the Mewtwo side is using anime feats, isn't it only fair that the Shadow side gets to as well?  After all, the Pokemon anime isn't any more canon to the Pokemon games than Sonic X is to the Sonic games.


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## Clam Chowder (Nov 6, 2011)

Shadow has multiple ways he can win, even in his _base_.


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## Clam Chowder (Nov 6, 2011)

> and has a Sp.Atk of 154, even higher than Dialga and Palkia who are universal level



Lawl, are you implying he is above these two? Name one time he has ever been portrayed above these two.



> Oh, and even higher than Arceus, the god who created the multiverse



So Mewtwo is above a multiversal now?


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## Dandy Elegance (Nov 6, 2011)

This looks like it's about to get interesting.


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## Light (Nov 6, 2011)

Clam Chowder said:


> Lawl, are you implying he is above these two? Name one time he has ever been portrayed above these two.
> 
> 
> 
> So Mewtwo is above a multiversal now?



I'm guessing you didn't see the Oh who am I kidding part of that post right?


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## Mappa Douji (Nov 6, 2011)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> Proof of this would be nice.
> 
> Perfect Chaos shows up in Sonic Generations, after all, and that's the most recent game in the series if I'm not mistaken. How exactly were the Adventure games retconned?


I'll try to find the article. I read this several months ago.

But if I remember correctly the creators of the games said they were rebooting the series. Which honestly base forms are pretty impressive since base Sonic beats Perfect Chaos. But it's kind of like the new Superman reboot, only there is only one version of canon in Sonic rather than 3.



Kamen Rider Godzilla said:


> Only Archie Shadow was banned.  With no version specified any version can be used, thus the Sonic X Shadow is just as legitimate in this match as game Shadow.
> 
> Also, since the Mewtwo side is using anime feats, isn't it only fair that the Shadow side gets to as well?  After all, the Pokemon anime isn't any more canon to the Pokemon games than Sonic X is to the Sonic games.


So the canon versions and current versions are not assumed? So if one made a thread entitled Goku vs <insert character here> I could bring up anime feats because I only specified "No movie feats"? Rather than the usual "Canon unless otherwise specified"

Just because people are using non canon for Mewtwo to try and prove their point doesn't mean they are any more right either. It doesn't matter which version you use to me. I was just pointing out that usually people use the canon and sometimes they let fillers in if it falls in to a realm of power of said character.

But fine. Using Sonic X Shadow vs Anime Mewtwo. That's no problem. I just prefer the game version since I didn't like Sonic X, it has nothing to do with their power it's just I didn't enjoy it except for select parts  Not that anything after A2B was any better but still. lol.


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## Kamen Rider Godzilla (Nov 6, 2011)

Mappa Douji said:


> So the canon versions and current versions are not assumed? So if one made a thread entitled Goku vs <insert character here> I could bring up anime feats because I only specified "No movie feats"? Rather than the usual "Canon unless otherwise specified".



When no version is specified any version is allowed.  It's why you are encouraged to be pretty specific on OPs, and why often when no version is specified you will get people asking which version is to be used.  Though yes, most often people end up just using the current version (or in the case of DB where it has a manga and anime, the version that is considered "canon").

Also, I agree with you on Sonic X.  I was never able to get into it.


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## DarkLord Omega (Nov 6, 2011)

Well now that it is settled, can we agree that Shadow wins?


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## feebas_factor (Nov 6, 2011)

DarkLord Omega said:


> Well now that it is settled, can we agree that Shadow wins?



>>Outskirts Battledome
>>Any thread with any debate in it
>>Ever agreeing entirely on anything

Heh, historically that seems pretty doubtful.


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## Calamity (Nov 6, 2011)

Clam Chowder said:


> Lawl, are you implying he is above these two? Name one time he has ever been portrayed above these two.
> 
> 
> 
> So Mewtwo is above a multiversal now?






Next time, read posts fully before quoting them.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 6, 2011)

Well seriously, its only a fight if we disallow Sonic X feats.


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## Glorioesrain (Nov 6, 2011)

Silly construct's, Ok,ok. Let's assume Shadow has some power to defeat Mewtwo, but as alway's ("glance /+=_=+\ glance") what's power without the power to empower that power? Powerless.

1: Shadow would first have to get by Mewtwo's barrier to be relivent.

2: Shadow would have to have the obejective feat's to suggest him withstanding mental assault's which could be though not limited to>>>

Mind controll
Illusion's
Mind wiping (memory loss seem's potent with shadow )
Mental distortion/Mental obstruction at any rate.

3: Shadow would have to resist plausibly having his body crushed by Psychic force/grapple's 

4: Shadow would have to possibly prevent from teleportation into the depth's of the earth or Hazardous object's Etc.

I could go on and on but... I at the moment see little need to promote any more priorities Mewtwo Legitimately has over Shadow that would enforce his victory. 

In all actuality, his intelligence alone build's such a battle callibur contrary to Shadow's, that trying to perceive it is beyond Shadow's paygrade, and im not even wanking the guy, errr pokemon.

Now the only way Shadow win's (given the circumstance's) is if he can resist Mewtwo's psychic edge. 

If so, present your evidence

If not, let's conclude this psychic circus.

Btw, did you know Mewtwo (being the clone of mew) could possibly become invisible? just a thought.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 6, 2011)

You weren't listening.
Sense Shadow has his X feats, Mewtwo is getting speedblitzed, not that his paltry barrier would stand up to an uninhibited strike from Shadow.


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## Gomu (Nov 6, 2011)

Azrael Finalstar said:


> You weren't listening.
> Sense Shadow has his X feats, Mewtwo is getting speedblitzed, not that his paltry barrier would stand up to an uninhibited strike from Shadow.



I guarantee you, Mewtwo didn't have to take anything that had enough power to destroy an entire armada of giant space ships with his little barrier. That may or may not be due to him having no feats of such, but hey, Shadow is faster and stronger uninhibited. If Shadow doesn't go uninhibited he has to use a chaos emerald but one is more than enough as he can stop the flow of time and just barrage Mewtwo before he places up the barrier.


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## Glorioesrain (Nov 6, 2011)

So you imply that Mewtwo wont be able to stop that from happening? Given Mewtwo's IQ or Intelligence, your suggesting it's impossible for him to just teleport the crystal or negate that by some other mein's? 

Or is shadow starting this battle without limiter's? 

Doesnt Mewtwo have time minipulation of his own? 
That's what I read. 

Oh there's not much preventing mind rape, since mewtwo has occasionaly done so to powerful psychic's in his spare time

Last, what make's you think Shadow's thought process exeed's Mewtwo?

Mind over matter, friends.


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## DarkLord Omega (Nov 6, 2011)

Yes Mewtwo won't be able to stop Shadow


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## feebas_factor (Nov 6, 2011)

From what I've read I'm seeing it as:


Shadow with limiters and without emerald: loses by insufficient hax + power + mindrape
Shadow without limiters and with emerald: wins by massive hax + blitz + power
Shadow without limiters and without emerald: depends on Mewtwo's speed and mindrape, or else his insufficiently demonstrated durability
Shadow with limiters and with emerald: depends on Mewtwo's psychic barrier staying up and/or his ability to disable techniques
...though it's apparent that pretty much everyone here will probably disagree with that strongly to one side or the other.

EDIT: Wow Shadow having a combination of anime superpowers and hax game feats makes him an absolute beast...


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## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 6, 2011)

Glorioesrain said:


> So you imply that Mewtwo wont be able to stop that from happening? Given Mewtwo's IQ or Intelligence, your suggesting it's impossible for him to just teleport the crystal or negate that by some other mein's?
> 
> Or is shadow starting this battle without limiter's?
> 
> ...


Are you fucking high?
Shadow is faster than lightning, Mewtwo is barely hypersonic, if that.


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## Glorioesrain (Nov 6, 2011)

Shadow has many friend's 

Shadow's powerless if Mewtwo teleport's him into the ground< 

Shadow is powerless if Mewtwo teleport's the Emerald away from him < 

Shadow is powerless if Mewtwo disable's his power to use it 

Shadow is powerless because shadow is powerless against powerful mental assault's such as mind wiping lol, unless you give me proof or scans to promote that notion of him preventing memory loss by some auto protection against it (mind wiping has happened to him)

Seem's like you guy's dont want to concede certain factor's that would put shadow down.

Btw shadow's reaction's are faster then lightning? What's his physical reaction's compared to Mewtwo's psychic? Powerless


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## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 6, 2011)

This means Mewtwo will be dead before he can think a thought. Ergo, his psychic powers are useless.


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## Glorioesrain (Nov 6, 2011)

Shadow sure doesnt move faster then Mewtwo can process thought's -_-, you ok with that? Or does shadow think faster then Mewtwo can process thought's lol?

Shadow's brain wave's are donkey mustard compared to Mewtwo's.


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## feebas_factor (Nov 6, 2011)

Azrael Finalstar said:


> This means Mewtwo will be dead before he can think a thought. Ergo, his psychic powers are useless.



See, I don't really buy this blitz-before-thought argument... When Shadow punched out the Metarex fleet he wasn't exactly going fast. Unless he starts the match with Chaos Control on, I just don't see this scenario occuring, and even Chaos Control usually takes a moment to activate. 

When has Shadow ever blitzed a fast and powerful opponent before they can even think? If there's an example I'll concede it.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 6, 2011)

He kept up with sonic, every time they fought, and Sonic outran a lightning bolt. Thats at least several hundred times sound speed. Lots faster than Mewtwo can process


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## Glorioesrain (Nov 6, 2011)

There is no "auto chaos control" it has to be activated like every other move shadow uses, so that whole speed blitz befor thought is bull, since Mewtwo is a brain power house. 

Also, for some reason these guy's keep ignoring mind rape -_- he get's his memory wiped (again) then loses. agree?

Oh and to counter the blitz thing, it's arguable that shadow has the fastest thought process in all of pokemin, He qite possibly would be able to perceive a lightningbolt.


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## DarkLord Omega (Nov 6, 2011)

People are doubting Shadow's speed now??? WTF

The point is that Shadow speedblitz Mewtwo unless you can provide a speed feat of Mewtwo, wait there is none


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## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 6, 2011)

Glorioesrain said:


> There is no "auto chaos control" it has to be activated like every other move shadow uses, so that whole speed blitz befor thought is bull, since Mewtwo is a brain power house.
> 
> Also, for some reason these guy's keep ignoring mind rape -_- he get's his memory wiped (again) then loses. agree?


He doesn't need Chaos Control, he's that fast in general.
Even WITH his limiters on he's as fast as Sonic.
Being mentally powerful doesn't mean you react fast.
else Batman would have better reactions than Goku.


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## Glorioesrain (Nov 6, 2011)

So what's stopping Mewtwo from using a barrier to negate speed blit's? I wonder, who here's think's that Mewtwo cant perceive shadow's movement? doesnt shadow need acceleration to reach top speed? im sure that since Mewtwo can react to thunderbolt's and hyper beams, shadow's base speed would be no problem


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## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 6, 2011)

No, shadow doesn't need to accelerate. Sonic dodged real lightning, not something generated from a pikachu or whatnot, and hyperbeams aren't necessarily that fast at all.


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## DarkLord Omega (Nov 6, 2011)

Here's an example of Shadow's speed


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## Calamity (Nov 6, 2011)

Glorioesrain said:


> So what's stopping Mewtwo from using a barrier to negate speed blit's?



I never knew "Barrier" could be used to negate an Opponent's speed. I thought it was used to increase your defense.


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## Gomu (Nov 6, 2011)




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## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 6, 2011)

i guess the other guy left...


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## Glorioesrain (Nov 9, 2011)

Hello friend's <(O)>
To avoid any more distasteful sauce from the Epic Wank of shadow that I haven't seen since Saucegay JIZzchiha (lol)
Im going to diminish shadow's chances with the following Objective fact's.

1:shadow has no feat's to grant him resistance to mental assault's such as memory wiping, which he has subcomb to on qite a phew occasion's, therefore Shadow is susceptible to such mental assaults and can objectively lose all memory of himself within the second the battle start's which will lead to his death subsequently following as Mewtwo Mind Rape's him using epic mental trauma of unlike any he's ever encountered, subjugating him to his EMO past until his mouth erupt's an asortment of sauces then his head exsplodes with psychic Jizz. or rather mental trauma in general leading to defeat at any rate (Weee! )

That was fun but in all seriousness, Let's move this conversation along>

2:The blitz arguement goes both way's actualy, Mewtwo can blitz base Shadow with relatively normal difficulty since his flight speed is greater then shadow's start up speed or arguably foot speed in general since Mewtwo flew through the air fast enough to apparently crush the armor that was hindering his power (perhapse this was due to the psychic force emmiting from his body while moving at high speed), not to mention that it was clearly visible that he was moving at extreme speed (by pokemon standard's) (refer to the movie for detail's since there arent many video's on youtube for me to provide you with footage) also his attack speed is highly more consistent then Shadow's dash blitz, based on constantly bashing raw psychic pressure into his opponent while compressing his psychic barrier like a sonic pinball, which shadow cannot do without damaging himself against Mewtwo's in the process,

Another note to take into account is that Mewtwo attack's more frequently then shadow does, due to his speed feat's and psychic reaction's, referencing such as casualy reacting to thunderbolt's which is a legit feat acknowledged by the OBD, not to mention that teleportation is a prominent practice with Mewtwo so shadow having his emerald or powersource in genreal stripped from him would not be hard, given these two character's are blood lusted and have no knowledge of one another capabilities.. so Mewtwo most likely being the more intelligently blood lusted construct that he is, would reasonably disable shadow's abilities down to a basic hedgehog, and there is no real arguement that im aware of atleast, to suggest shadow preventing a psychic onslaught since shadow doesnt have any significant psychic defence aside from willfuly disobeying doom's controll over him, which I should state is small compared to Mewtwo's influence over creature's he hasen't even created himself..

Oh and last point on the whole speed concept, since Mewtwo's speed by flight is qite superior to shadow's movement speed, even arguebly fast as his feat without limiter's against the metarex fleet> 
shadow would need objective feat's to suggest that he can reach top speed without acceleration, only then can the "blitz" notion be faintly relevent on his behalf.

Shadow Would need evidence of him entertaining the objective feat's sonic executed to support your claim that he can accelerate at the speed's that sonic can (like the instance when sonic effortlessly outmatched that vehicle by likely attaining near to top speed instantly with little effort).

It's one thing to state an objective feat to suggest that shadow is at a firm near-standstill with sonic in term's of top speed, it's a groundless idea to assume subsequently as fact that he can simulate all of Sonic's running speed feat's, such in particular as Sonic's acceleration in that scenario, given Shadow doesnt have existing objectivity in that range to legitimize those assumption's, unless you can find evidence actualy.

You guy's have to consider also that if Mewtwo does happen to be "blitzed" it would take a city leveling attack to outweigh his durability (which is clearly stated within the OBD profile of him, lol, OBD reference ).

The reason why shadow likely loses here isnt because of an inability to destroy Mewtwo, but more or less his inability to prevent himeself from being destroyed by as I stated previously, Mewtwo's "Psychic influence/reaction's".
One reference would be an Omni-Disable, which was used in the Movie to disable 50 pokemon of "all their abilities", while simultaneously Battleing Mew (a pokemon of near or equal power) Intensively while he was minipulating a potentialy life wiping storm, which one would assume hindered his abilities unless there is no limit's to his psychic ability.

Mewtwo as stated by the OBD "offical profile" : " has likely hypersonic reactions considering he attacked before a Pokemon with a "supercomputer-like brain" could respond. Also seen "casually" reacting to attacks varying from hyper beams to "thunderbolts". 
So the whole "sonic outmatching thunderbolt's so shadow can too" comparison is duck sauce realy (irelevent)

Most likely since this is a battle for blood, shadow would probably use chaos control (unless someone will disagree) being as though it's a decisive facor within his pool of priorities, which take's atleast a second or 2 to activate, which is ample time for Mewtwo to do qite a phew thing's such as:
Mind fuck him befor he finishes his thought/sentence
Wipe his memory (again)
or just teleport him a phew kilometer's into the ground to end the battle since he wont be exspecting that lol (sound's harmful to enough to KO him)

And heck, since it's confirmed in the OBD, there's no need for scan's to attest that Mewtwo can minipulate time himself, which would likely counter the whole chaos control concept which wouldnt occur anyway since shadow wouldnt have a "sound opportunity" to finish the sentence due to the objective priority that blood lusted Mewtwo's Intellect, range, and acute psychic focus would reinforce, there would be no hesitation to mind wipe, crush, possess, disable, or teleport Shadow lol, and this is just the limited spectrum of Mewtwo's prioritized asset's I can conclude at the moment <(O)>

Oh and keep in mind before you post, that this battle begin's with these two character's 500 meter's apart, so there's no close range instant blitz before thought as presumed in this scenario unless Shadow begin's in super, in which case Mewtwo should likely get an equipt aswell since it's not banned  

Being as though this battle was not specified with prep transformation or any special feature's, these two opponent's begin casualy unequipted, without the extended arsenal unless stated by the OP.

And even if shadow could go super, would his mind make it that far?


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## sonic546 (Nov 9, 2011)

Who the fuck cares? Let the thread die.


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## Glorioesrain (Nov 9, 2011)

Well unless someone can conclude that shadow can prevent himself from losing to vigorous mental assault's, Mewtwo would take this without a struggle.

Lol @ your "fuck"


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## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 9, 2011)

Why did you continue this thread, you've already lost.


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## Glorioesrain (Nov 9, 2011)

How exactly have I lost when the objective was never winning or losing but rather establishing a conclusive discussion? So we've managed to conclude I lost rather then either of the character's? Or is that your outlandish subjective take on this discussion? 

Just stating I lost doesn't conclude Shadow as the winner no matter how heavily you weigh your personal oppinion, until there has been a general consensus on both side's, these discussion's shail be concluded through objectivity by feat's, not biased sample's subjugated to your arbitration.

Since there has been little obstruction in the way of my arguement to enforce Mewtwo's objective win, unless you can refute all my arguement's beyond a shadow of a doubt, Mewtwo's victory could plausibly be concluded given there is no further objective evidence provided to impliment Shadow's victory.

I have provided ample reason's why Mewtwo would defeat shadow before a blitz would take place, given the start distance and Mewtwo's psychic range, potency Etc.. 

Seem's like not many of you who eagerly endorse Shadow's victory are as vigorously tenacious in addressing simple yet potent arguement's against him.


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## sonic546 (Nov 9, 2011)

How about you start by proving that Mewtwo is faster than Shadow as you previously claimed?


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## DarkLord Omega (Nov 9, 2011)

This thread is still going on? Give up, Mewtwo loses. I like Mewtwo but god damn.


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## Calamity (Nov 10, 2011)

Glorioesrain said:


> And heck, since it's confirmed in the OBD, there's no need for scan's to attest that Mewtwo can *minipulate time *himself,




Definitely want to see some proof of this.


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## jetwaterluffy1 (Nov 10, 2011)

With an emerald shadow obviously wins. Without emeralds, Mewtwo has enough time to erect a forcefeild and fly high in the air. He can just snipe shadow from up there.


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## feebas_factor (Nov 10, 2011)

jetwaterluffy1 said:


> With an emerald shadow obviously wins. Without emeralds, Mewtwo has enough time to erect a forcefeild and fly high in the air. He can just snipe shadow from up there.



Shadow can fly. But otherwise I agree with the general gist of this assessment. Though there are a lot of variable factors.

Also snipe = mindrape or psychic crush, so no dodging.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 10, 2011)

jetwaterluffy1 said:


> With an emerald shadow obviously wins. Without emeralds, Mewtwo has enough time to erect a forcefeild and fly high in the air. He can just snipe shadow from up there.



depends on which version of shadow.
Game shadow, sure.
Sonic X shadow? fuck no


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## Glorioesrain (Nov 10, 2011)

@Finalstar: Well there we have it, consent that Mewtwo would defeat cannon shadow.

Why not x shadow? I need some proof of X shadow using chaos control without a single sec or 2 prep to conclude that he can stop time at the start of battle without a moment's pass

@Jetwaterluffy: Only if it's an auto time stop, if not then Mewtwo should have an opportunity to do something before shadow execute's the move

@MohsinMan: I actualy havent seen the time minipulation take place to my actual knowledge, but it is stated in the OBD archives that he has it to some extent. Ask the Mod's.

It's possibly a reference to the movie when Mewtwo teleported everyone back to the port, but im not sure on that aspect myself.


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## DarkLord Omega (Nov 10, 2011)

I don't get how game shadow can't win since he can chaos control without a emerald


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## sonic546 (Nov 10, 2011)

DarkLord Omega said:


> I don't get how game shadow can't win since he can chaos control without a emerald



Yes he has Chaos Control without an Emerald, but it's only limited to short-range teleportation.


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## Gomu (Nov 10, 2011)

Is this thread still going on. Didn't we already say that either Shadow takes off his limiters or uses a chaos blast? It's not that hard people, Mewtwo is gonna get pwned, he's gonna get fucked and he can't do anything about it.


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## Glorioesrain (Nov 10, 2011)

@ Gomu
Coming from one (you) who would abandon detail's, sure why not, and let's just say he would beat every other pokemon aswell for the heck of speculative generalization. I could state in speculative generalization that Mewtwo teleport's shadow's head from his body, which would be more grounded than your mustard.

1:If your going to state something as fact atleast support your arguement without bias.

2: Shadow has phew feat's without his limiter's, your off you rocker if you think speculation of those feat's are admissible.

3: Chaos blast isn't city busting or anywhere near it so it's not even phazing Mewtwo's barrier. 

4:Mewtwo flies faster than shadow, need proof? check his speed stat's in the 1st movie when he jetted through the air after doing his own psychic version of chaos blast on giovanni's HQ lol far faster than I have seen Shadow run, even arguebly fast as shadow's launch into the meterex fleet without limmiter's, and without much acceleration to boot.

Point is: Dont post BS unless you can swollow it.


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## sonic546 (Nov 10, 2011)

Glorioesrain said:


> 4:Mewtwo flies faster then shadow, need proof? check his speed stat's in the 1st movie when he jetted through the air after doing his own psychic version of chaos blast on giovanni's HQ lol far faster than I have seen Shadow run, even arguebly fast as shadow's launch into the meterex fleet without limmiter's, and without much acceleration to boot.
> 
> Point is: Dont post BS unless you can swollow it.
> .



Prove it.

Shadow has blitzed Sonic who can outrun lightning and casually dodge laser fire.  If you think Mewtwo can fly faster than lightning, you're a wanker.

Don't post BS unless you can swallow it.

And learn to spell.


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## Gomu (Nov 10, 2011)

Glorioesrain said:


> @ Gomu
> Coming from one (you) who would abandon detail's, sure why not, and let's just say he would beat every other pokemon aswell for the heck of speculative generalization. I could state in speculative generalization that Mewtwo teleport's shadow's head from his body, which would be more grounded than your mustard.
> 
> 1:If your going to state something as fact atleast support your arguement without bias.
> ...



What the fuck is this? When has Mewtwo busted a city or tanked a city busting attack with his barrier? And how the fuck do you know how fast Mewtwo was flying, show me calcs of his feats, especially since I don't remember Mewtwo ever moving faster than lightning (Shadow blitzed the guy that actually blitzed the lightning). He doesn't really need feats with his limiters off, we do know that there is a hefty increase in speed and power however, and hat after using them he blew up an entire metarex fleet.  and Shadow can use chaos control without his emeralds it is just a shorter range and lesser degree of time stopping and more of a degree of time drastically slowing down.

*Start swallowing, brush your teeth afterwards.*


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## Glorioesrain (Nov 10, 2011)

@ Gomu
Your BS implies that shadow can and will begin the battle at "TOP" speed with little to no acceleration? I have no knowledge of this BS being capable by Shadow, if you got proof to sanitize that BS then provide it.

It's stated in the OBD archive that Mewtwo has City level durability, possibly a reference to him exsploding an island without being damaged in the after math, although im not entirely sure where the Mod's of the OBD did their calc.

Oh and I need of some form of evidence supporting shadow blitzing sonic at the same speed sonic executed when he dodged the lightning bolt. If shadow did not move at the speed of lightning during the actual blitz, then you can't justify shadow blitzing from 500 meter's at  or above "lightning speed" while referencing that instance without neglecting circumstantial detail's.

To be completely fair, Mewtwo has nothing preventing himself from disabling Shadow from the very start of battle, eliminating all those scenarioes shadow can dig into.

What say you now?


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## DarkLord Omega (Nov 10, 2011)

Glorioesrain said:


> @ Gomu
> Your BS implies that shadow can and will begin the battle at "TOP" speed with little to no acceleration? I have no knowledge of this BS being capable by Shadow, if you got proof to sanitize that BS then provide it.
> 
> It's stated in the OBD archive that Mewtwo has City level durability, possibly a reference to him exsploding an island without being damaged in the after math, although im not entirely sure where the Mod's of the OBD did their calc.
> ...



That your a mewtwo wanker


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## Gomu (Nov 10, 2011)

Glorioesrain said:


> @ Gomu
> Your BS implies that shadow can and will begin the battle at "TOP" speed with little to no acceleration? I have no knowledge of this BS being capable by Shadow, if you got proof to sanitize that BS then provide it.
> 
> It's stated in the OBD archive that Mewtwo has City level durability, possibly a reference to him exsploding an island without being damaged in the after math, although im not entirely sure where the Mod's of the OBD did their calc.
> ...



I say you have no business being a freaking debater if you can't even understand the power of powerscaling. The factors of Sonic being able to move faster than lightning and not being able to react quickly enough to Shadow to dodge him is proof enough towards the factors of speed, this means that he can move faster than the lightning Sonic moved faster than with ease. If you can't understand that simple thing, you shouldn't be here.

Second, learn to spell please. Reading your work is like reading a second graders handwriting with the second grader writing better.

Him destroying a fleet of ships that are able to tank multiple attacks from outspace and able to tank Sonic Driver Cannon is proof enough of the factors of a city level power. The things like Shadow's power growing from releasing the rings or having the power of emeralds does nothing for you. Shadow's much faster and has a much better set of skills.

Stop trolling Mewtwo, he's lost, he has nothing that can beat Shadow when he has his limiters off and has a chaos emerald. You can't understand that, than just keep bitching and moaning like you have been.


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## Glorioesrain (Nov 11, 2011)

What ever you say goes friend, your trolling Shadow since you haven't presented any footage of what you claim he can do.

With that said and apparently no mein's on you'r part to refute my argument's with hard evidence, this aspect of the battle between Sonic X Shadow & Mewtwo will remain inconclusive, until proven otherwise.

As for the actual cannon shadow, there is an apparent consensus that Mewtwo is the victor in this match up.

Atleast one verdict can be acknowledged.

<(O)>


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## sonic546 (Nov 11, 2011)

Glorioesrain said:


> What ever you say goes friend, your trolling Shadow since you haven't presented any footage of what you claim he can do.
> 
> With that said and apparently no mein's on you'r part to refute my argument's with hard evidence, this aspect of the battle between Sonic X Shadow & Mewtwo will remain inconclusive, until proven otherwise.
> 
> ...



Did you not bother to read through the thread?

You have yet to provide hard evidence for your arguments.  Do that and then we'll talk.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 11, 2011)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsFFfNbrfxI[/YOUTUBE]
about 14 minutes in, Sonic easily outpaces lightning 
Shadow can keep up with him without removing his limiters.
/thread


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## Calamity (Nov 11, 2011)

*@Azrael Finalstar
*
Were you the one who added "time manipulation" to the list of Mewtwo's powers or was it Bionesse?


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## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 11, 2011)

It certainly wasn't me.


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## Gomu (Nov 11, 2011)

I always wondered when the fuck Mewtwo had time manipulation powers. I looked at both movies twice, and I said "wtf", twice.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 11, 2011)

Well, its really ambiguous what he did in those movies, i thought it was just mind rape...


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## Gomu (Nov 11, 2011)

Me too. I thought it was just a product of his psychic powers, not time travel.


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## Cygnus45 (Nov 11, 2011)

I'm not sure what to make of that feat. Wasn't he just directing/attracting the lightning towards him with the device so that it would hit the tower?


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## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 11, 2011)

He moved faster than it while it was coming down.


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## Gomu (Nov 11, 2011)

He was using his spin ball like static to guide the lightning. It came from the actual clouds of a storm, which counts as real lightning. No outside source helped the factors of him guiding the lightning, and he did it with complete ease. So yeah, Sonic lightning blitzes, and redirects it towards the spot it's needed.


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## feebas_factor (Nov 11, 2011)

Eh, this thread turned into somewhat of a mess.



Azrael Finalstar said:


> Well, its really ambiguous what he did in those movies, i thought it was just mind rape...



Agreed. It doesn't help that there is a fair bit of ambiguity in how both Shadow and especially Mewtwo use/activate their powers...

I won't try to add much more to the debate, other than that while Shadow is definitely faster than Mewtwo, everyone seems to have forgotten that Mewtwo has teleportation too? And yeah, Shadow doesn't start the fight at lightning+ speed, he still needs a split second to accelerate. Of course... there aren't very many reaction feats for Mewtwo anyway so it's all kind of a moot point.

The whole chaos control vs. disable argument I won't touch again, I don't see that getting resolved at all.


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## Cygnus45 (Nov 11, 2011)

> The whole chaos control vs. disable argument I won't touch again, I don't see that getting resolved at all.



Most versions of Shadow need at least 1 emerald, even if it's a fake one, to maximize the potential of chaos control. It would win out over disable if used at the same time since chaos control affects the entire time/space continuum while disable simply affect the superpowers of a lifeform.

In his base Shadow's chaos control abilities allow for him to use chaos spear, teleport, basic stuff. And yeah, he wouldn't be able to accelerate to lightning speed right off the bat, so in base and with no emeralds it's anyone's game for the first few second before Shadow hammers away at Mewtwo's barrier, gets fed up and blitzes him.

With an emerald, he destroys him. No need to comment on what would happen if he used his super form. The only chance Mewtwo would have is if this is base Shadow from the games, no emeralds, and no powerups (low hypersonic speeds). Even then, Mewtwo would probably still lose.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 11, 2011)

Sonic didn't really accelaerate at all in that video, in fact he had to shoot backwards quite quickly.


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## Glorioesrain (Nov 11, 2011)

Doesn't shadow have to pause for a second to activate chaos control? Also, would chaos emeralds be considered an accessory of his base form? I realy am curious


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## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 11, 2011)

yes and yes, but as it has been established, he doesn't really _need_ any of those things here


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## Glorioesrain (Nov 11, 2011)

So as feebas factor stated, unless he can auto chaos control (which you said he cant) Mewtwo should have an oppurtunity to possess, memory wipe, teleport, or disable him, or perform some form of a psychic action against him yes?


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## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 11, 2011)

No, because he'd leap into him at massively hypersonic speed and splat him like a tomato.


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## Glorioesrain (Nov 11, 2011)

What the in the world? Lmbo did he leap this fast before with limiters on in the show? At a target 500 meters away? I realy am curious

It realy seem's difficult to have a serious discussion 1 on 1 when you say thing's like that, I would also like to hear from others their take on this, with both if not everyones respective thoughts stacked against the feat's.

Oh and remmember we are currently speaking for Sonic x shadow, since cannon shadow has not the same feat's to alow chance for such a win as anime shadow.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 11, 2011)

Didn't you watch the video i posted?
i'm guessing you didn't.


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## Glorioesrain (Nov 11, 2011)

We need some math on this feat, anyone know someone with math and calcs?

Wouldnt the plane tip or be moved in some way if sonic was moving faster then actual lightning and landed?

Wasn't that storm conjured pretty quickly, is that actualy the speed of lightning there? Seems questionable, we need a phew more oppinions on that, and perhapse some calcs

Does sonic forming a storm and luring electricity to a rod have any thing to do with shadow's speed? Even if shadow blitzed sonic, what does that have to do with shadow moving at lightningspeed? It's not like sonic was moving at lightning speed when shadow blitzed him, PIS could be a factor there since sonic supposedly has lightning speed but didnt dodge shadow's assault. It's happened before you know

Oh and Mewtwo reacted to thunderbolt's, so he should have no problem reacting then to shadow yes?

To suggest that sonic was moving faster than lightning is questionable with his speed feet there stacked against the actual standard for lightning speed. 

Contradictions' are blatant in that footage, if we hold the speed feat as lightning+.--------------------------------------------------


Found a Physicist, found some info, now I challenge you'r feat for all its worth.


>"Fiction has the issue of breaking traditional laws of lightning induction on more than one occasion. Isn’t it correct that lightning will, traditionally, go for the path of least resistance (and, subsequently, the closest and more positively charged object)? Usually being the ground... 
If anything fiction in lightning simply seems to be a collection of electrons rather than an actual lightning bolt, in which case the speeds can be insanely slow."< 


As you you can see, that "lightning" did not meet the criteria of our standard lightning bolt or anywhere near it.


Oh I got a phew perspectives' and as I had thought, shadow blitzing Sonic actualy can qualify as PIS or even CIS, so you'r reference to sonic speed is void, since it obectively has nothing to do with the speed feat in question.

"IT comes down to things from conductivity of the area, to resistance, propogation, current, the electromagnetic wave vs actual electron speed(which often is not fast at all, though on the far end it is indeed very fast) etc , etc"


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## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 11, 2011)

He didn't cause a storm, the atmosphere was already stormy, he just attracted lightning and i don't recall mewtwo ever dodging cloud to ground lightning. If he has, would you care to share with us? 
So no, he gets fuck blitzed.


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## sonic546 (Nov 11, 2011)

Glorioesrain said:


> We need some math on this feat, anyone know someone with math and calcs?
> 
> Wouldnt the plane tip or be moved in some way if sonic was moving faster then actual lightning and landed?
> 
> ...



Do you ever shut the fuck up?  Nobody cares.


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## Glorioesrain (Nov 11, 2011)

Probably PIS in its prime, on behalf of Sonic being blitzed by shadow, was sonic at the same level as when he got blitzed by shadow when he conducted the lightning?

After watching some recent footage of sonic X, Im prompted to concede sonic x shadow as "possibly" winning against Mewtwo, but only if we can prove 100% that sonic was moving at the speed of lightning+ and subsequently prove that he was able to move or react at that speed when facing shadow the very first time they fought.

If we can conclude that Sonic was able to move at that speed back then, only then  can we aproach the theory of Shadow blitzing at "standard lightning speed".

As for the main topic, I think that its safe to conclude (as stated before) thatCanon shadow wont be as capable therefore Mewtwo wins there. (im stating this since no one has changed the battle between canon shadow and Mewtwo from inconclusive, since that match up conclusion is no longer pending) 

As for Sonic x shadow, we are very near a conclusion.


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## sonic546 (Nov 11, 2011)

Again. Shut the fuck up, nobody cares.


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## Glorioesrain (Nov 11, 2011)

You just cant get enough of me can you?


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## Gomu (Nov 11, 2011)

OK Glori, what you're saying is that Mewtwo is just as fast as Shadow. Who is easily shown to at least move at Hypersonic+ speeds in an instant and easily be able to keep up with a guy, who in Sonic Battle was able to beat a character that was said to have the ability or power capacity to planet bust (Sonic vs Ultimate Emerl and yes it was a bad game, but meh it was still canon). Keep in mind that the battle took place under the limit of 30 seconds, and that Sonic moves several times faster than the speed of sound (at least, and easily hypersonic if you wanna bust balls). Not only did Emerl absorb the information of Sonic, Shadow, Knuckles, Amy, E-102, Chaos, and whoever else, in an instant of seeing them, but Sonic went against him and defeated the creature who was said to be several times those powers).

Going by this we can safely say that Shadow who fights with Sonic on a regular basis and is archived as a rival in Sonic's speed daily is at least somewhat below equal to or above Sonic's speed (thanks to both Sonic and Shadow constantly blitzing and fighting one another to standstills even with all of Shadow's powers). This means that he can move at speeds of Hypersonic+ from the games at least. Sonic has shown to outrun lightning strikes, this means that Shadow can as well, making Shadow not only a lightning timer but at the very least, Massively Hypersonic+.

I don't know about you, but even the aspects of space and time haven't shown that much speed in Pokemon. Mewtwo doesn't have the ability to move at such extraordinary speeds, and hasn't shown the aspects of moving at such speeds, and if he has give me proof. Yes, he can teleport, but that means nothing to a guy that can blitz a guy that can outrun lightning if he doesn't have the same feats of speed as well.

Shadow has the means of easily keeping up with him, and if this was Archie (where Shadow is easily Massively Hypersonic or even Relativistic and has Planet Level destructive potential), he would get taxed so hard, that Mewtwo would be considered a baby compared to Shadow.


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