# Akainu vs the Eleven Supernovas



## Daisuke Jigen (Jun 27, 2014)

Location: Punk Hazard, starting distance is 60 meters.
Intel: Full.
Mindset: Bloodlusted.
Scenario 1: No restrictions.
Scenario 2: Akainu's intangibility is off.

All Supernovas are Post TS versions.


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## NO (Jun 27, 2014)

I'm gonna assume all post-TS without feats are just pre-TS versions otherwise this is just a game of who has the best imagination.

SN mid diff s2.


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## Shanks (Jun 27, 2014)

Nova stomp S2.

Probably mid dif S1


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## Extravlad (Jun 27, 2014)

Akainu wins both scenario.

He gives the Ivankov's treatment to half of the SNs (Capone,Bonney,Urouge,Killer,Apoo,Hawkins), and then the Ace's treatment to the rest.


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## Venom (Jun 27, 2014)

Akainu wins S1
Loses S2


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## Goomoonryong (Jun 27, 2014)

Scenario 1: Akainu wins because of his intangibility. 

Scenario 2: Supernova's win


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## MarcoThePhoenix (Jun 27, 2014)

Scenario 1: Akainu wins with a lot of effort, unfortunately his defence against haki is too high for the SN's considering Marco and Vista couldn't hurt him. 

Scenario 2: Akainu gets the beating he deserves.


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## monkey d ace (Jun 27, 2014)

S1 - akainu low diff's. basically, it will take a tad bit amount of time and effort to defeat all of them
S2- akainu mid/high diff's. his firepower remains the same, which means he can one-shot them all, as for intangibility, akainu can tank anything the SNs dish out, and his haki would resist any hax-kind of ability the SNs pull out.


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 27, 2014)

Akainu loses with high difficulty in this battle.

Akainu loses with low difficulty. There's no way akainu is beating all eleven of them without his ability to use magma.


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## blueframe01 (Jun 27, 2014)

Lyrical-Messiah said:


> Akainu loses with high difficulty in this battle.
> 
> Akainu loses with low difficulty. There's no way akainu is beating all eleven of them without his ability to use magma.



only his intangibility is restricted dude. he can still use his magma fist. 

On Topic, S1 is pretty difficult to predict simply because on that one panel of him not being injured by Marco & Vista. Not sure what really happened there, but if its the case of him being able to dodge a haki attack without being injured then he takes S1

He definitely loses S2 though. At this point I can't see any single individual (alive, at least) being able to solo all 11 SNs. He might kill 2-3 of them, but he'll be overwhelmed by then


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## Extravlad (Jun 27, 2014)

Replace Jinbe/Ivan/Ace/Curiel/Inazuma with the SNs

If Akainu can solos Blackbeard's crew, why couldn't he solos 11 supernovas?


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## Dunno (Jun 27, 2014)

I dunno, maybe.


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## Luke (Jun 27, 2014)

Scenario 1: Super Nova's win with medium difficulty. 

Scenario 2: Super Nova's win with zero difficulty.


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## TheWiggian (Jun 27, 2014)

Akainu wins scenario 1 with mid diff, they ain't bypassin his intangibility and his Haki at the same time. Thought it'll take a while to go after all of them.

SN's win the 2nd scenario with high diff, too much hax and too many annoying bastards among them. Thought it will wear them out to shut Akainu down ...


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## Amol (Jun 27, 2014)

Hope this thread goes well than 
'Kizaru vs 11 Supernova'.
anyway,
S1: Extreme diff on either side. *Haki can be combined hence combo attack will bypass his intangibility.* It all depends on team work of supernova though. 
S2: Akainu definitely looses. He will push SN upto high-low diff. He will take 3 or 4 SN with him. But he will loose.


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 27, 2014)

Agreed. Combined consecutive attacks from the Supernovas' haki with their destructive force will get pass Akainu's defense. I give this to the Supernovas, and this time they have a better chance against Akainu than Kizaru (Not because Akainu's weaker) due to akainu being very slow in terms of speed. Supernovas win this with high difficulty.

Supernovas win with mid difficulty now that I know the OP had restricted his Logia intangibility instead of his Magu Magu no mi.


Anyways, these kind of threads are too repetitive. I should be making threads now


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## Extravlad (Jun 27, 2014)

> Agreed. Combined consecutive attacks from the Supernovas' haki with their destructive force will get pass Akainu's defense


Destructive force?.
Most of them cannot hurt him, Marco and Vista failed, no reasons to believe that weaker fighters like the SNs would success.
The others does not even have destructive force, Law/Bonney's hax should be easily stopped by Akainu's CoA, Capone has no serious feats.
Akainu is too durable, if he can tank WB's strongest attack we've seen, he shouldn't be in trouble there.


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 27, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> Destructive force?.
> Most of them cannot hurt him, Marco and Vista failed, no reasons to believe that weaker fighters like the SNs would success.
> The others does not even have destructive force, Law/Bonney's hax should be easily stopped by Akainu's CoA, Capone has no serious feats.
> Akainu is too durable, if he can tank WB's strongest attack we've seen, he shouldn't be in trouble there.



The most unconvincing argument that is "His haki will withstand everything"  Haki can only get you so far, man, especially when you're fighting against opponents who've shown to cause a lot of destruction to an area/matter.

The way you wank the admirals is very unproductive and you're not making a very convincing case with your 'arguments'  Just because you have better haki than 11 people whose haki altogether will overpower the Admiral shouldn't mean that the Admiral's haki will be successful in nullifying said consecutive attacks without taking in any damage. We're talking about the new generation fighters here whose progression are as good as that of Law who managed to overpowere Vergo's haki, so why assume that most of the strong  Supernova 11 cannot do the same? Besides, Vista and Marco's haki weren't combined to hit the same sport on Akainu's body, but two sets of different body parts. Of course they'd be able to injure him when most of them have incredible Haki by now. Do not try to underestimate the strongest Supernova's. We already have confirmation that Sabo is admiral level, and the gap between Luffy and Sabo isn't all that far, much less the strongest Supernovas like Kidd, Luffy, Zoro, Xdrake et cetera. These guys will due some considerable da

Their progression is surely enough to assume that their Haki, when combined with each other, as well as as their destructive force will injure the admiral. Haki isn't the only source of power or the only factor in a fight. It can be overpowered, especially with large quantities of quality that is the Supernova 11. I mean we have multiple fast Supernova fighters who'd be able to close in on Akainu to injure him without getting injured by him as he's slow. A few of the Supernova eleven have shown destructive capabilities to destroy a ship as big as an island, and a slash that was able to destroy several mountains. These two attacks will be more than enough to cause some grave injuries on Akainu, and there is no denying that. Next we have Bonnie's ability to rewire people's age and turn them old or young. Apoo can dishout his attack to distort the flow of sound that will be combined with his haki to injure Akainu.


Akainu loses with High difficulty though.

How is he going to defend himself against Bonnie's haxx? CoA? NO.

And Akainu did tank Whitebeard's quake, that's a good durability feat. Although I am not sure how he'd fair up against a Jet elephant gatling, an attack stronger than Elephant gatling gun that managed to destroy a ship the size of an island, as well as tanking Law's slash that cut up several mountains.


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## Kaneda30 (Jun 27, 2014)

S1 - Akainu wins high diff. If we assume SN have very good chemistry and maybe prep they win high-extreme diff.

S2 - SN win high diff. There's too much firepower to withstand without his logia intangibility.


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## Kaiser (Jun 27, 2014)

Akainu loses first scenario mid-high difficulty
He loses second scenario low difficulty


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## Ruse (Jun 27, 2014)

Tea bringing out them shitstorms 

S1: Akainu destroys them they can't hurt him and his KH and reflexes should help him avoid Law and Apoo's haxx. 

S2: Akainu low high diff he simply overwhelms them.


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## Magician (Jun 27, 2014)

We already had this thread.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jun 27, 2014)

Lyrical-Messiah said:


> The most unconvincing argument that is "His haki will withstand everything"  Haki can only get you so far, man, especially when you're fighting against opponents who've shown to cause a lot of destruction to an area/matter.
> 
> The way you wank the admirals is very unproductive and you're not making a very convincing case with your 'arguments'  Just because you have better haki than 11 people whose haki altogether will overpower the Admiral shouldn't mean that the Admiral's haki will be successful in nullifying said consecutive attacks without taking in any damage. We're talking about the new generation fighters here whose progression are as good as that of Law who managed to overpowere Vergo's haki, so why assume that most of the strong  Supernova 11 cannot do the same? Besides, Vista and Marco's haki weren't combined to hit the same sport on Akainu's body, but two sets of different body parts. Of course they'd be able to injure him when most of them have incredible Haki by now. Do not try to underestimate the strongest Supernova's. We already have confirmation that Sabo is admiral level, and the gap between Luffy and Sabo isn't all that far, much less the strongest Supernovas like Kidd, Luffy, Zoro, Xdrake et cetera. These guys will due some considerable da
> 
> ...



Sabo would destroy Luffy they are very far apart.


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## Canute87 (Jun 27, 2014)

Unless Sabo is as strong as coloured Admirals that ain't happening.


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## StrawHat4Life (Jun 27, 2014)

The SN's win the first scenario with very high difficulty and win the second with mid difficulty.



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Sabo would destroy Luffy they are very far apart.



And if Luffy outright beats Doflamingo on his own then would you still feel the same way?


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 28, 2014)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Sabo would destroy Luffy they are very far apart.



No, they're not. They're most likely on the same level, but Sabo edges him out a little. As in, he's stronger than him in which the gap of power between them isn't too huge.


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## Shanks (Jun 28, 2014)

Lyrical-Messiah said:


> No, they're not. They're most likely on the same level, but Sabo edges him out a little. As in, he's stronger than him in which the gap of power between them isn't too huge.



Are you serious?


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## Urouge (Jun 28, 2014)

Luffy and sabo being close to each other  

No wonder the guy thinks that akainu has no chance against the sn. He believes that they're top tiers.


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## Ruse (Jun 28, 2014)

Luffy and Sabo on the same level?  That's a good one Luffy could never treat Burgess the way Sabo did. 

Although that would explain why they think Akainu has no chance in this fight.


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## Shanks (Jun 28, 2014)

Urouge said:


> Luffy and sabo being close to each other
> 
> No wonder the guy thinks that akainu has no chance against the sn. He believes that they're top tiers.





ThatBlackGuy said:


> Luffy and Sabo on the same level?  That's a good one Luffy could never treat Burgess the way Sabo did.
> 
> Although that would explain why they think Akainu has no chance in this fight.



Now now, if Luffy was on Sabo's level, then all 5 admirals will get wreaked by this group. Akainu loses because Luffy is on Luffy's level and the novas should be around Luffy's level.


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## Luke (Jun 28, 2014)

Sabo's significantly stronger than Luffy is. However, I wouldn't say Sabo could CRUSH him. It'd be medium difficulty for Sabo if they fought.


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## Urouge (Jun 28, 2014)

Admiral Aokiji said:


> Now now, if Luffy was on Sabo's level, then all 5 admirals will get wreaked by this group. Akainu loses because Luffy is on Luffy's level and the novas should be around Luffy's level.



Nah you think that akainu loses simply because you have a problem with him. No one here gave a good reason. It's up to you guys to proves that they can hurt him with the level of haki they have shown and their firepower. Let's not forget that to put down a tank like akainu for good you first need to overcome his haki like wb did and then hit him with at least 3  BL wb hits 

All I see from you and some of the other posters here is "hurr the timeskip would be useless if they can't  even beat an admiral or a younkou"


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## Amol (Jun 28, 2014)

Luffy will give Sabo mid diff fight.
But lets not turn this into a Sabo thread.
This thread is about Akainu and Supernovas.
S1: Akainu looses to extreme high diff. He will kill half of them before dying .
*Haki can be combined hence combo attacks will bypass his intangibility*
S2:Akainu looses to mid-high to high-low  diff .


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## Urouge (Jun 28, 2014)

Huh even if that was case prove that their combined haki is strong enough. Luffy is the only one who got trained by haki master for two years.


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## Amol (Jun 28, 2014)

Urouge said:


> Huh even if that was case prove that their combined haki is strong enough. Luffy is the only one who got trained by haki master for two years.



You know that no SN has faught all out yet . I can only explain it from story's need. Kid has two SN with him and they are planning to take down Big Mom. Luffy and Law are only 2 SN and they are planning to take down Kiado. I am not talking about Law's intention. I am taking about Luffy's intention.
Oda is doing his best to show us that SN's are threat to Yonkou. If SN win or loose that is different matter. They being threat to Yonkou crew which has atleast 2 top-tiers only with group of 2 or 3 SN proves that Oda wants them to be relevant to the power game . 
Now you ask me things like whether combined haki of 11 SN will able to overcome a single top-tier's Haki or not .
Thing like this looks like downplaying of Supernovas. Of course combined haki of them will overcome Akainu's haki.
Akainu is not some kind of invisible god. SN's are trashing VA's left and right. I am not saying single person of them should be able to beat Admiral at this point of story. But combined effort of group this powerful where almost everyone has small island level attack should be able to beat a single top-tier otherwise they have no hope fighting even against 2nd mate of Yonkou.


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## Luke (Jun 28, 2014)

Urouge said:


> All I see from you and some of the other posters here is "hurr the timeskip would be useless if they can't  even beat an admiral or a younkou"



For one thing, Rayleigh trained Luffy specifically so what happened on Sabaody Archipelago couldn't happen again. So, we can safely assume Luffy got significantly stronger. Is he admiral level? *No. * 

BUT, if you add Hawkins, Zoro, Drake, Apoo, Urouge, Law, Bonney, Capone, Killer, and Kid to the mix....

Let's just say Luffy, Zoro, Kid, and Law are a little bit above Vice Admiral level. Then let's say Killer, Apoo, Hawkins, and Drake are Vice Admiral level. Then you add in the rest of the Nova's all attacking Akainu at once. 

How can Akainu defeat 4 above Vice Admiral Level fighters, 4 Vice Admiral level fighters, and 3 reasonably strong below Vice Admiral level fighters? *All at the same time,* and in the second scenario without even allowed access to his intangibility? 

It's ridiculous IMO that he could take out all frickin' 11 of them at the same damn time.


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## MYJC (Jun 28, 2014)

Luffy would give Sabo a high-diff fight, he's not that much weaker than him. People are still underestimating Luffy, I see, since we haven't seen him go all out post skip. 

On topic, SNs win both scenarios high-ish diff. 

I'm not sure that intang being off would make that much difference; I'm sure all of them post-skip can use Haki so they can bypass it anyway. Akainu is tough but he can't beat all these haki users with hax fruits at the same time.


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## Typhon (Jun 28, 2014)

Lyrical-Messiah said:


> *I never said they were top tiers, you dimwit.* The more you try to be condescending with your incoherent jabs, the less likely your arguments will be acknowledged as good ones. I simply said Akainu will lose against the full front of 11 time skip supernovas, that is all.
> 
> 
> As for Sabo against Luffy? Yes, Sabo beats Luffy, but without being given a hard fight. Sabo wins with mid to high diff. Probably mid diff, although that may change after the next chapter.



You have said before that the M3 are top tiers. That would mean Law and the other novas are top tier too.


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## Typhon (Jun 28, 2014)

Lyrical-Messiah said:


> And weren't you the one who said Nami was yonkou level?
> 
> Pathetic liar trying to discredit me. Oh, right, this is Typhon, the one who's been making absurd claims. Not once did I ever say this. I simply said Luffy would be able to give an admiral a mid diff fight.
> 
> The supernovas are not top tiers, so please do not try to make up claims, or else you will not enjoy the outcome.





Lyrical-Messiah said:


> Not all top tiers can destroy an island. Besides, whether prime garp can destroy a mountain is arguable and irrelevant to the content of the discussion. What I am saying is that current garp is weaker than his prime incarnation so any feats he had in his prime his current feats are half of the quality of said feats in his prime self. Either they show the feats or not. *Vergo is a top tier, zoro and sanji as well, yet they couldn't destroy a mountain?* It depends on the aspect of one's ability and whether it's made for destroying. Aokiji is a top tier, yet his ability doesn't suit all to well with brute force and destruction to the point his rank speaks for him being able to destroy an island.
> 
> The mechanic's of Law's abilities differ greatly to that of Mihawk's or that of Garp's. Mihawk relies on brute strength and pure cutting technique, whereas Law relies on hax. Law doesn't need strength to cut the mountain that he had cut in punkhazard. His ability ignores conventional devil fruit by default and the feat of him cutting a mountain resides mostly with the attributes of his ability that can cut up a matter resistant to cutting without having to undergoe the same prerequisite as your standard swordsman's cutting ability that consists of power and finesse. Law's feat was mostly complimented by his Devil fruit's hax, and not him having used brute strength to cut such a huge portion of a matter.





Yeah.... And I never once stated Nami was yonkou level...


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 28, 2014)

Typhon said:


> Yeah.... And I never once stated Nami was yonkou level...



Like I told you in that thread, my definition of top tier differs greatly to the general populace's view of a top tier. There are many categories of strength above top tier; low top tier, mid top tier, high top tier and legendary toptier. However, it shouldn't mean that I view the admirals by any means weaker than the SN 

My definition of the tierism rankings is a little similar to the way people in this section have their own sets of categories by which they assign a character a certain rank. For example, my definition of them being top tiers is a little similar to how they believe vergo, sanji et cetera are mid tiers. Do not try to distort what I had originally claimed.

Posts a thread that  does not prove how I made said statement you accused me of making. I can understand your antics on this thread is disguised by the fact that you've begun to loathe me for that debate we had a few weeks prior to this thread.

Good job realizing that that was a joke, genius  I accused you of a lie that I made, similar to how you lied about me claiming such drivel. 

-Snip-


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## Ruse (Jun 28, 2014)

Lyrical-Messiah said:


> Try reading instead of going with anybody's opinion, to which you'd make yourself seem extremely ignorant.



Yeah whatever mate ck  

OT: It would be better to wait till we see what the other SN can do before making this thread.


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 28, 2014)

Typhon said:


> Are you serious Lyrical-Messiah? Really? And a neg at that too?
> 
> Apparently he didn't even though in a few posts above he stated he believes Vergo, Zoro, and Sanji are top tiers. Excuse me for assuming that also means Luffy is one too.



I guess that last debate had left your brain fuming. Alas.

So after proving to you how my exclusion of the general populace's view of the tierism does not necessarily imply my view of "tierism" differ greatly to them because one piece has an accurate description of the power rankings, you make a hilarious post and go off making up lies like you've always been doing? Weak.

Needles to say, I don't really use rankings to dictate who wins, or not, unless the power between two fighters differ by a considerable amount.


Furthermore, that Urouge thought I said the SN11 were top tiers because they beat akainu all at once.


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## Louis-954 (Jun 28, 2014)

The Supernova win comfortably. Too much firepower for Akainu to deal with.


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## Extravlad (Jun 28, 2014)

> The Supernova win comfortably. Too much firepower for Akainu to deal with.


WB's quake is more powerful than everything we saw from the SNs so far, Akainu still tanked it and came back 5 minutes later to continue his chase.


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## Urouge (Jun 28, 2014)

Lyrical-Messiah said:


> I never said they were top tiers, quit lying. The more you try to be condescending with your incoherent jabs, the less likely your arguments will be acknowledged as good ones. I simply said Akainu will lose against the full front of 11 time skip supernovas, that is all.
> 
> 
> As for Sabo against Luffy? Yes, Sabo beats Luffy, but without being given a hard fight. Sabo wins with mid to high diff. Probably mid diff, although that may change after the next chapter.



How am I lying? You clearly said that they're on the same level. Here's the quote



Lyrical-Messiah said:


> No, they're not. They're most likely on the same level, but Sabo edges him out a little.



You're either insane or lying because you know what you said was dumb


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## Louis-954 (Jun 28, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> WB's quake is more powerful than everything we saw from the SNs so far, Akainu still tanked it and came back 5 minutes later to continue his chase.


Doesn't mean shit here. Akainu would be getting pummeled continuously from every conceivable direction here from 11 powerful Haki users.


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## Ruse (Jun 28, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> WB's quake is more powerful than everything we saw from the SNs so far, Akainu still tanked it and came back 5 minutes later to continue his chase.



For once we agree on something  

Inb4 Supernova haxx


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## Urouge (Jun 28, 2014)

Lyrical-Messiah said:


> Like I told you in that thread, my definition of top tier differs greatly to the general populace's view of a top tier. There are many categories of strength above top tier; low top tier, mid top tier, high top tier and legendary toptier. However, it shouldn't mean that I view the admirals by any means weaker than the SN
> 
> My definition of the tierism rankings is a little similar to the way people in this section have their own sets of categories by which they assign a character a certain rank. For example, my definition of them being top tiers is a little similar to how they believe vergo, sanji et cetera are mid tiers. Do not try to distort what I had originally claimed.
> 
> ...



You're saying in the other post that they're not top tier and then when typhoon showed an older post of yours where you said that they're top tier you start flaming and then flip flopping.


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## Urouge (Jun 28, 2014)

Louis-954 said:


> Doesn't mean shit here. Akainu would be getting pummeled continuously from every conceivable direction here from 11 powerful Haki users.



So he's just gonna stand there while they attack him? He has the most lethal attacks here. He doesn't need to attack them continuously just to hurt them unlike them.


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## Extravlad (Jun 28, 2014)

> Doesn't mean shit here. Akainu would be getting pummeled continuously from every conceivable direction here from 11 powerful Haki users.


Powerful haki users? Luffy's CoA wasn't strong enough to stop Hody's bite, half ot the SNs are probably not even able to hit him and would get fodderized just like Ivankov (i'm talking about Bonney/Urouge/Capone).
It shouldn't be difficult for Sakazuki, none of them have the firepower to take him down, and he can basically kill any of them with 1 hit if he want to.

He spams Daifunka until they're all dead.

Also Law is non-factor in this fight.


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## Louis-954 (Jun 28, 2014)

Urouge said:


> So he's just gonna stand there while they attack him? He has the most lethal attacks here. He doesn't need to attack them continuously just to hurt them unlike them.


Obviously not, but the Admirals are not so far above the Supernova that they can handle all 11 all at once. Would it be an easy win? No, but they'd do it.

Even Doflamingo believes that with the help of his family he could bring down Fujitora, a man of comparable stature and power. Doflamingo is not the kind of fool who would underestimate the power of an Admiral so i believe his words hold weight. The admirals are powerful, but not nearly as powerful as people in this section seem to think.


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## Urouge (Jun 28, 2014)

I might be underestimating the sn because we haven't seen much from them. It's just akainu is so lethal and his endurance is unbelievable


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## Louis-954 (Jun 28, 2014)

Urouge said:


> I might be underestimating the sn because we haven't seen much from them. It's just akainu is so lethal and his endurance is unbelievable


Just look at how far Luffy, Zoro & Law have come in 2 years and then tack on 8 more comparably powerful characters.

Even individually (Zoro and Law) they are able to defend themselves against Admirals even if only for a short period of time. 11 of them all together would surely be able to mount an offensive assault.


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 28, 2014)

Lyrical-Messiah said:


> Like I told you in that thread, my definition of top tier differs greatly to the general populace's view of a top tier. There are many categories of strength above top tier; low top tier, mid top tier, high top tier and legendary toptier. However, it shouldn't mean that I view the admirals by any means weaker than the SN
> 
> My definition of the tierism rankings is a little similar to the way people in this section have their own sets of categories by which they assign a character a certain rank. For example, my definition of them being top tiers is a little similar to how they believe vergo, sanji et cetera are mid tiers. Do not try to distort what I had originally claimed.
> 
> ...





Urouge said:


> How am I lying? You clearly said that they're on the same level. Here's the quote
> 
> 
> 
> You're either insane or lying because you know what you said was dumb



Because you're a massive liar who's always getting mad when he is being proven wrong. Your posts and dishonest demeanor when arguing with someone can attest to what I am saying  where most of your hilariously made claims were refuted by me many times. I know I am sounding a little angry but that's because you accused me of things I never did!

 You're a known troll whose wanking for One piece is seriously horrible which screams that this member is not serious or just a horrible troll. I never said that, and you never referenced that post before Typhon, which says that you weren't talking about that post I made earlier, but you believed I said the Supernovas were all top tiers because they beat Akainu. 

Don't lie and stop distorting what I meant. I just brought up a statement that explains what I meant in saying Vergo, Sanji and Zoro were top tiers. My definition of top tier is different because it consists of many ranks above the top tier ranking.




Urouge said:


> You're saying in the other post that they're not top tier and then when typhoon showed an older post of yours where you said that they're top tier you start flaming and then flip flopping.



Because you obviously weren't talking about that statement I made a few weeks ago, you massive liar with a constant urge to get angry on things you have no knowledge on. I said something completely different to what you view of it. I never flamed, nor did I flip flopped. I ripped your arguments to shreds and you obviously felt enraged for not being able to counter my arguments.


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## Urouge (Jun 28, 2014)

Louis-954 said:


> Just look at how far Luffy, Zoro & Law have come in 2 years and then tack on 8 more comparably powerful characters.
> 
> Even individually (Zoro and Law) they are able to defend themselves against Admirals even if only for a short period of time. 11 of them all together would surely be able to mount an offensive assault.



They have come a long way but is it enough to beat the strongest of the op world? I'm not sure

-Snip-


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 28, 2014)

Urouge said:


> How am I lying? You clearly said that they're on the same level. Here's the quote
> 
> 
> 
> You're either insane or lying because you know what you said was dumb



Yeah, and sabo does edge him out by a little. "edge out by a little" doesn't mean Luffy wins  Ultimately sabo would win, but Luffy won't lose without giving him a good difficult fight.


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 28, 2014)

Urouge said:


> They have come a long way but is it enough to beat the strongest of the op world? I'm not sure
> 
> 
> 
> Why are you so rustled? You act like you know me but I don't even remember talking with you in the obd. Are you okay? Because you seem to awfully angry at me for some reason. It's not my fault that you're flip flopping again. You clearly said that luffy is on the same level as Sabo and that Sabo edges him out by a bit. I didn't make that up cause I can quote you again



I did prove how you acted as if I said the Sn11 were top tiers by virtue of my post that argued that they'd beat Akainu. I later reply to your comment by calling you an angry liar who can't read my post properly without having to distort what I said. Why are you so rustled? A pathetic insult not deserving of anyone's attention. It's just your posts don't have any substance to them, and you had automatically gotten angry for noticing someone state an objective fact about Luffy not going to Lose to Sabo easily. Luffy is extremely strong, and him losing to Sabo with ease is highly unlikely because Luffy is strong himself as well. Sure, Sabo does edge him out, although I can't see how you'd interpret that as me saying Luffy > Sabo  Luffy loses to Sabo, only without giving him a mid to high difficulty fight.


That's all I said, so why did you feel the need to argue with me over something simple to understand?


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## Urouge (Jun 28, 2014)

Lyrical-Messiah said:


> Yeah, and sabo does edge him out by a little. "edge out by a little" doesn't mean Luffy wins  Ultimately sabo would win, but Luffy won't lose without giving him a good difficulty fight.



You said that Sabo would mid diff him. You don't mid diff someone you just edges out.


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## StrawHat4Life (Jun 28, 2014)

Can we learn how to act like adults and not resort to pointless personal attacks? I don't care who you think is a troll or a liar. Debate the merits of the match and leave your personal drama and pointless feuds out of these threads. Thank you.


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## Extravlad (Jun 28, 2014)

I don't understand the logic of this section.
Akainu can fodderize Ace,Jinbe,Ivankov,Curiel and fight alone against Marco + Vista + Crocodile + Andre + 11 commanders BUT he wouldn't be able to take down the SNs?
This is unrealistic.

Akainu's answer to Luffy's elephant gun


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 28, 2014)

Urouge said:


> You said that Sabo would mid diff him. You don't mid diff someone you just edges out.



Yeah, because I felt the need to reply to a member who was heavily underestimating Luffy when saying that Sabo destroys him in every part. To which implied that I was still undecided at which level of difficulty he would lose to sabo and believed Sabo would beat current Luffy with mid diff, unless Luffy shows the ability to beat Doflamingo in the next chapter. In which Case I will no longer think he'd lose to him with mid diff, but high diff, making me say the exact same thing that I said in this thread; sabo edges him out a little provided that Luffy beats Doflamingo.


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## StrawHat4Life (Jun 28, 2014)

I've locked this temporarily and will re-open it shortly. 

The next user who engages in personal attacks will be section banned. I can guarantee that.


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## Louis-954 (Jun 28, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> I don't understand the logic of this section.
> Akainu can fodderize Ace,Jinbe,Ivankov,Curiel and fight alone against Marco + Vista + Crocodile + Andre + 11 commanders BUT he wouldn't be able to take down the SNs?
> This is unrealistic.
> 
> Akainu's answer to Luffy's elephant gun


-Ace wasn't fodderized; he was protecting someone. Something he otherwise wouldn't have done if he were trying to harm Akainu. Give Ace 10 allies as strong as himself and no one to protect and you have different fight on your hands.

-Jimbe was running away and protecting someone. Again, not actively trying to oppose Akainu in combat. See above.

- 11 fresh post-time skip SN >*  Battle-worn* Whitebeard Commanders and *Haki-less* Crocodile. 

If the Donquixote Family can take down Fujitora then the 11 Supernova should be able tot defeat Akainu with *high* difficulty. Unless you think for some reason that Akainu is on an entirely different tier than Fujitora, which doesn't make much sense.


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## Extravlad (Jun 28, 2014)

> -Ace wasn't fodderized; he was protecting someone. Something he otherwise wouldn't have done if he were trying to harm Akainu. Give Ace 10 allies as strong as himself and no one to protect and you have different fight on your hands.


He was fodderized in the first place..



> -Jimbe was running away and protecting someone. Again, not actively trying to oppose Akainu in combat. See above.


Why was he running? Because he couldn't handle Sakazuki, 1 hit from Akainu in Jinbe's back was enough to take down.



> - 11 fresh post-time skip SN > Battle-worn Whitebeard Commanders and Haki-less Crocodile.


No, commanders like Curiel/Fossa can be compared to Bonney or Capone, Marco and Vista are much stronger than any SNs, the commanders have the number advantages as well as the experience needed to fight against a toptier.



> If the Donquixote Family can take down Fujitora then the 11 Supernova should be able tot defeat Akainu with high difficulty. Unless you think for some reason that Akainu is on an entirely different tier than Fujitora, which doesn't make much sense.


The DonquiXote Family can't take down Fujitora, one statement from DD can't be taken as a fact, he was probably thinking about beating Fuji with HAX (Sugar), or with Kairouseki, in the worst case he could have done another "game" to make the whole country and hungry bounty hunter chasing Fuji for him.

Also yes Sakazuki is arguably above Fujitora, and the gap shouldn't be underestimated.

Fuji does not even know how strong his own DF is.


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## Ruse (Jun 28, 2014)

Louis-954 said:


> -*Ace wasn't fodderized*; he was protecting someone. Something he otherwise wouldn't have done if he were trying to harm Akainu. Give Ace 10 allies as strong as himself and no one to protect and you have different fight on your hands.
> 
> -Jimbe was running away and protecting someone. Again, not actively trying to oppose Akainu in combat. See above.
> 
> ...



Akainu overpowered him, and burnt his arm Ace didn't exactly do well in their first clash.


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## Louis-954 (Jun 28, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> He was fodderized in the first place..
> 
> 
> Why was he running? Because he couldn't handle Sakazuki, 1 hit from Akainu in Jinbe's back was enough to take down.
> ...


Ace was not fodderized. They had one clash and then he went to save Luffy without regard for his own health or defense. A real fight wouldn't play out like that even if Ace would ultimately lose.

Jimbe was running because Whitebeard told them to retreat and because he promised Ace to keep Luffy alive at all costs; not because he was afraid of Akainu. Before Whitebeard issued the order to retreat, Jimbe flat out said he was prepared to lay down his life at Marineford if he had too.

Marco was injured and battleworn while Vista is an unknown quantity. Yes he's strong, but it's also possible that some Supernova are slightly stronger or at least even with him.

The fact that Oda is trying to convey to us that teams of 3-4 Supernova + their crews are capable of bringing down a Yonkou and that the Donquixote Family could probably kill Fujitora should tell you something. Fujitora couldn't fodderize Zoro or Law but I'm supposed to believe that Akainu can take roflstomp 11 of them simultaneously? Get out of here, lol.

If these were pre-ts Supernova I'd be inclined to agree with you, but they aren't.

You're really grasping at straws, aren't you? Doflamingo has been around for a looooong time. He knows how powerful the admirals and the yonkou are. He wouldn't hinge a plan to take down Fujitora on an unconscious little girl who he has no idea when she will wake up.

I could say the same thing about Akainu. If the Donquixote Family could create an opportunity to get Sugar in close enough to turn Fujitora into a toy, then what's stopping Bonney who is infinitely more talented and capable than Sugar from turning Akainu into a helpless child or old man with a little assistance from her SN peers?



ThatBlackGuy said:


> Akainu overpowered him, and burnt his arm Ace didn't exactly do well in their first clash.


1. He wasn't beaten.

2. Add 10 more Ace level combatants with varying skillsets to help Ace and Akainu would have a significantly harder time overpowering any one of them that easily. If you think otherwise then you're just being dishonest.


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## Amol (Jun 28, 2014)

Louis-954 said:


> Ace was not fodderized. They had one clash and then he went to save Luffy without regard for his own health or defense. A real fight wouldn't play out like that even if Ace would ultimately lose.
> 
> Jimbe was running because Whitebeard told them to treat and because he promised Ace to keep Luffy alive at all costs; not because he was afraid of Akainu. Before Whitebeard issued the order to retreat, Jimbe flat out said he was prepared to lay down his life at Marineford if he had too.
> 
> ...



Very good post .
Even if DD is psycho he is still veteran New World pirate. Even he understands that his family is helpful against an Admiral and his family is quite weak compared to the 11 supernovas. No one is just fodder.
Thing is that members around here started to use words like Fodders casually. Especially when it comes to admiral.
Rep +


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 28, 2014)

Comparing Bonnie to fosa or curiel is taken out of context and makes the least of sense. First, understand that their methods of approach that will be used against Akainu differ greatly to one another thus their method of approach in trying to injure Akainu will have different affects on Akainu that isn't dependent on whether they possess great strength or not. Bonnie relies solely on hax, whereas curiel or fossa use their inept strength to injure Akainu. You're comparing apples and oranges here. The level of strength between Bonnie and Curiel does indeed vary by a little although is not relevant in anyway to invalidating Bonnie's attempts at doing some type of damage to Akainu in any way whatsoever because she relies solely on hax. Curiel's method of fighting consists of using brute force in conjunction to his haki to try to damage akainu, whose abilities of injuring are the same as curiel's but only stronger. Seeing as how he'd have no ways of dealing against hax, he'd succumb to its effects.


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## Extravlad (Jun 28, 2014)

> Ace was not fodderized. They had one clash and then he went to save Luffy without regard for his own health or defense. A real fight wouldn't play out like that even if Ace would ultimately lose.


That's what I call "fodderized", Ace failed to do anything against Akainu's standart punch.
This scene was just like Kizaru kicking Luffy like the fodder he is or Kuzan using an ice-sword to slow him down.
If Akainu was serious he would have used Meigo or Daifunka, but why would he do it? Ace is too weak and cannot answer to his attacks anyway.



> Jimbe was running because Whitebeard told them to treat and because he promised Ace to keep Luffy alive at all costs; not because he was afraid of Akainu. Before Whitebeard issued the order to retreat, Jimbe flat out said he was prepared to lay down his life at Marineford if he had too.


The others weren't running, Marco and Vista tried to fight, Ivankov tried to fight, th commanders tried to fight.
Jinbe was defeated in the same way as Curiel or Ace.



> Marco was injured and battleworn while Vista is an unknown quantity. Yes he's strong, but it's also possible that some Supernova are slightly stronger or at least even with him.


Akainu was injured as well, he just took the most powerful attack we ever saw.
Vista being weaker than some SupernovaS is highly unlikely, Law was easily defeated by Dofla in their fight, Vista stalemated Mihawk Shanks's rival and a Yonko lvl fighter, that's not even comparable.
Vista's feats are even better than Sabo's so far.



> The fact that Oda is trying to convey to us that teams of 3-4 Supernova + their crews are capable of bringing down a Yonkou and that the Donquixote Family could probably kill Fujitora should tell you something. Fujitora couldn't fodderize Zoro or Law but I'm supposed to believe that Akainu can take roflstomp 11 of them simultaneously? Get out of here, lol.


When did Oda imply that 3-4 supernovas can take down a Yonko? I remember Law talking about a PLAN.
-Fujitora is weaker than Akainu.
-Being able to clash 1 or 2 times against an admiral doesn't mean you cannot get fodderized, remember that Tashigi stopped Zoro's attack on Punk Hazard, Monet also stopped Luffy's hardened gatling gun, do you think Tashigi/Monet are even close to give difficulties to Luffy/Zoro? I don't.



> If these were pre-ts Supernova I'd be inclined to agree with you, but they aren't.


If these were pre-TS supernova, even Current Luffy would beat them alone.



> You're really grasping at straws, aren't you? Doflamingo has been around for a looooong time. He knows how powerful the admirals and the yonkou are. He wouldn't hinge a plan to take down Fujitora on an unconscious little girl who he has no idea when she will wake up.


But Dofla never said how he planned to kill Fujitora
He has many ways to do it, Sugar is just one of them.



> I could say the same thing about Akainu. If the Donquixote Family could create an opportunity to get Sugar in close enough to turn Fujitora into a toy, then what's stopping Bonney who is infinitely more talented and capable than Sugar from turning Akainu into a helpless child or old man with a little assistance from her SN peers?


From OP


> Intel: Full.


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## Louis-954 (Jun 28, 2014)

> That's what I call "fodderized", Ace failed to do anything against Akainu's standart punch.
> This scene was just like Kizaru kicking Luffy like the fodder he is or Kuzan using an ice-sword to slow him down.
> If Akainu was serious he would have used Meigo or Daifunka, but why  would he do it? Ace is too weak and cannot answer to his attacks anyway.


What Sabo did to Bastille or what Bartolomeo did to Maynard is fodderize. Unlike the former, Ace could still attack, dodge and move quickly enough to intercept an attack aimed at someone else a fair distance away.



> The others weren't running, Marco and Vista tried to fight, Ivankov tried to fight, th commanders tried to fight.
> Jinbe was defeated in the same way as Curiel or Ace.


They were all trying to get away as per Whitebeards command. The* only reason* any of them stopped was buy Jimbe time to get Luffy the fuck out of there. Not because they were trying to be badass motherfuckers who want to prove they are stronger than Jimbe.



> Akainu was injured as well, he just took the most powerful attack we ever saw.
> Vista being weaker than some SupernovaS is highly unlikely, Law was  easily defeated by Dofla in their fight, Vista stalemated Mihawk  Shanks's rival and a Yonko lvl fighter, that's not even comparable.
> *Vista's feats are even better than Sabo's so far.*


Ha ha, no... He hasn't done anything to suggest he's stronger than Sabo. Top SN like Luffy, Law, Kid or Drake could give Vista a good fight.



> When did Oda imply that 3-4 supernovas can take down a Yonko? I remember Law talking about a PLAN.
> -Fujitora is weaker than Akainu.
> -Being able to clash 1 or 2 times against an admiral doesn't mean you  cannot get fodderized, remember that Tashigi stopped Zoro's attack on  Punk Hazard, Monet also stopped Luffy's hardened gatling gun, do you  think Tashigi/Monet are even close to give difficulties to Luffy/Zoro? I  don't.


- Did you forget that Kid, Hawkins, Apoo and Killer are aiming for a Yonkou?
- There is not an entire tier separating Fujitora from Akainu.
- Tashigi stopped a Zoro who was aiming his attack at a couple of fodder Marines. If Zoro aimed his attack at her and  didn't have any reserves about cutting women Tashigi and her sword would get cleaved in two. it's not comparable to this scenario where the Admiral was already aiming his attacks at SN.
- Monet did give Luffy difficulty. Similar difficulty you'd expect an SN to give an Admiral, Now add 10 more and the Admiral no longer has an annoyance, but a real problem on his hands.



> But Dofla never said how he planned to kill Fujitora
> He has many ways to do it, Sugar is just one of them.


Did Oda let you in on that? Taking down an Admiral is no easy feat no matter how you try and do it. They have a better chance at beating him down than they do at tricking him with Kairoseki (who's supposed to tag him with it btw? 95% of them are DF users themselves) or Sugar.



> Intel: Full.


How does that stop them from creating the opening?


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## Kaiser (Jun 28, 2014)

Akainu loses badly


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## Shanks (Jun 28, 2014)

*@Urouge*

Copy and paste from Kizaru thread.

*How Kizau’s Logia & Haki work*

*Spoiler*: __ 



We do not exactly know how it works, but one thing we do know is that if he wants to increase his defensive and take minimum damage from weaker haki assaults, he will need to consciously activate his logia and infuse it with CoA. Even if it takes a split sec to active and it seems like almost instantaneous, it’s still not.

We also don’t know the limit of Kizau’s Haki power nor his limit to spam lasers. What we do know is that he either cannot or isn’t in his character to spam lasers the entire battle simply because he did not do such things even when fighitng multiple times on panel already.

Also bear in mind that with AoE and long distance attacks, the power is spread out. Simply put the combine power of all lasers from 1 Yasakani no Magatama should be roughly the same as a light speed kick.

Long distance attack also decreases the accuracy dramatically as we have being shown that Yasakani no Magatama missed Law’s ship and Dai Funka and Ryusei Kazan missed a tone of fodder pirates.

So in order to hurt or defeat Kizaru it’s about:
•	Capturing him off guard when he isn’t infusing Haki in his logia to hurt him
•	Tap him with Hacks
•	Combine enough fighting power of the novas to overcome him Logia + Haki combination




*Speed Argument*

*Spoiler*: __ 



I’ve seen people spamming “Kizau is the faster, significantly faster, etc” and continue to do so on and on and on, yet fail to read or recognize what I’ve addressed previously.

No one here are disagreeing that Kizaru is faster and in-fact I can even agree that he is the fastest Top Tier and the faster person in One Piece to-date. HOWEVER, other top tiers can still keep up with him and we have canon proof that Marco & Ray was more than capable of effortless keeping up with his speed. Being an Admiral and presumable either equal to or slightly weaker than Aokiji & Akainu means that the other Admirals could also keep up with his speed also. Same goes with Fujitora, despite being a newly appointed Admiral. Same goes with Garp, because he was able to intercept Marco in midair.

While high tiers should technically be slower, on panel, we have seen high tiers and lower keeping up with an Admiral’s speed. They include:
•	Ivankov’s was able to tap Akainu with Death Wink to provide an opening for Jimbie to take Luffy out of there
•	Crocodile was able to tap Akainu again and slice him in half to save Jimbie and Luffy
•	Jimbie jumping in and catch Akainu’s manga fist earlier to save Luffy
•	Pre-skip Luffy dodging Mihawk
•	Law intercepting with Fujitora’s meteor multiple times and was able to buy time for several chapters with both Doflamingo and Fujitora
•	Zoro keeping up with Fujitora’s speed to trade slashes the first clash and came out clean the second clash

All this isn’t saying these guys are faster than Kizaru, NO NO NO! No one is saying this or have being saying this. All this is saying that despite a 1 v 1, they can keep up with a top tier’s speed somewhat, but when we’re talking 11 v 1, their combine consecutive assaults will be significantly faster than Kizaru alone.




*Feats of the Nova*

*Spoiler*: __ 



So far, NONE of the Novas have fully gone all out on panel and on a fair battle yet, so I’ll look at what we have.

Luffy

•	Starting the time skip by casually 1 shotting a Pacifista that took his entire crew preskip going all out to win. We also now realize that gear second is more or less his base as he can use it so effortlessly and have much stronger attacks by infused haki, using gear third and infused element power into his attacks, implies that he got significantly stronger and I would go as far as 10x times stronger or more
•	Destroying half of Noah with a blood lusted Elephant Gatling. Let me remind you that Noah was built and designed to cater for the 5 million population of Fishman island and is half the size of this massive Fishman island. Luffy’s attack is ISLAND SIZE. The only person that’s shown AoE larger than island size was whitebeard.
•	Luffy mid/low diffing Don Chinjao. Chinjao despite old, was able to tank the pointy end of a legendary blade for an established named super nova in Cavendish. Chinjao was able to fight on even ground with Luffy for an extended period of time before Luffy pushes out a strong attacks like Hawk Riffle and even so Chinjao effortless get up. Chinjao’s feat against Luffy seems to be better that Jimbie’s feats at Fishman island.

Law

•	Law said it himself that he’s not a match of Doflamingo, that’s true, but we also do not know exactly how strong Doflamingo is yet, because he has yet to gone all out.
•	What do we know of Law is that he was able to hold of Doflamingo & Fujitora for an extended period of time, got captured, escaped, save Sanji and Co, then go on to fighting Doflamingo again and lost. Most of these are off panel, so we do not know exact what he’s capable off, but if we look at what he’s done on panel, we could have a decent idea of what he’s capable of.
•	Law effortless slice Fujitora’s first Metoer and aim it as Fujitora and Doflamingo
•	Dodging multiple Meteors on panel
•	Deflecting a Metoer and sending it right back and Fujitora’s ship
•	And the most impressive feat is that island size room, despite being fragile. Once again, no one besides WB have shown AoE larger than island size before.

Zoro

•	Clashed with Fujitora the first time. Both obviously did not go all out. But what happened during that clash gives Zoro tremendous hypes of what he’s truly capable of.
•	Zoro went for Doflamingo’s head and was intercepted by Fujitora’s sword. They look even at that time
•	Fujitora then proceed to overpower him with Gravity, created a hole and send him tumbling down helplessly. Fujitora looks really good in this encounter and if the battle ends here, we can all agree that Zoro is fodder to Fujitora, but what happens after is what’s shown how strong Zoro and to an extend how strong Novas are currently.
•	Zoro proceed to get out of the hole and looks like have suffer limited damage and send a flying slash to Fujitora, pushed him back and Fujitora made a shit face and commented that it was brutal. This is not as impressive as send Zoro down a hole, but is in fact far more impressive most high tier feats we seen to date and he can hold his own against an Admiral
•	Oda once again further justify this by giving them a quick off panel clash again later on, which was then interrupted by Pica. This is to show that if the first battle continues, Zoro would not go down easily. One again, this is a 1 v 1 feat against an Admiral/Top Tier.

All this is to shown that these guys are no longer fodders to an Admiral/Top Tier and while they still can’t win in a 1 v 1, they can certainly handle an Admiral in a 1 v 1. Let me also remind you that 11 v 1 will be significantly different.




*Rivalries & Speculations*

*Spoiler*: __ 



It was made very clear that Kid will be one of Luffy’s biggest Rival by always giving him the highest bounty and higher than Luffy and having a strong swordsmen as first-mate in Killer.

Killer so far have shown to be a calm patient, strategiest and intelligent person by being the middleman between the Nova alliance to fight a Yonkou.

Kid & Killer’s portrayal as Luffy & Zoro’s rival is showing that they will always be fairly close in power to Luffy & Zoro and can possibly be stronger based on their rivalry.

Hawkin, Apoo and Drake have all shown to be close to M3 Nova’s power level during Sabaoby and possible their roles in the new world.

Not sure where Bonnie, Capoine and Urouge fits here, but two of these guys have hacks.





*Story Progression*

*Spoiler*: __ 



We have passed the 65% mark of the story! Kid alliance is ready to take on a Yonkou crew. I repeat a YONKOU CREW, which will most likely have at least 3 times the fighting power of your average Admiral. This is mad hype of the Novas and we're here discussing whether all Novas can take on 1 Admiral or not? It seems really pathetic if you think about it.

This arc is about fighting a pirate crew that’s second only to a Youkou crew and I have no doubt in the next big arc, Luffy can co will be taking on a Yonkou crew. Whether or not Luffy is strong enough to solo a Yonkou then, I don’t know, but most people would agree than a small group of Novas (not all) should be able to take down a Yonkou then, so why people are questioning that all Novas can’t even take 1 Admiral now is bothersome.





*Combining Power & Combination Attacks*


*Spoiler*: __ 



We all saw how it’s perfectly possible to combine haki to defend against a stronger force when the C3 defended Marineford plaza against a quake punch from WB. Why can’t 3 Novas do the same to defend again Kizaru’s light spamming?

We also saw how Zoro and Luffy was able to combine their power to counter Aqua Lagoona. Why is it not possible to combine the Nova power to increase their powers?




*Hacks – To 1 Shot*

*Spoiler*: __ 




•	Law – Shamble hearts
•	Bonnie – Turn someone into an old man or new body
•	Capoine – Turn someone smaller

If anyone of these guys gets the opportunity to tap Kizaru’s ass, he could be death in 1 shot. Just like:

•	Cesar being significantly weaker than Luffy was able to defeat Luffy, Smoker and Co the first time around
•	Kizaru & Monkey VA using a little strategy was able to tap Marco and defeat him low~mid diff, despite Marco is Admiral level and your average VA should be fodder to him
•	Mag, who technically should be significantly weaken that pre-skip BB crew combine was able to 1-shot with an opening due to hacks


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## Krippy (Jun 28, 2014)

Akainu shouldn't win, neither by portrayal or feats, really.

At this point, all of the supernovae should be strong Mid-tiers or High tiers, which is enough to hold their ground against Akainu, who isn't insanely fast (Intercepted by Ace, Marco x 2, Vista and Jimbe while bloodlusted) and will have his attention divided 10 other ways, which negates his wide AOE unless the supernovae are too stupid to spread out and use basic guerilla tacts. While he's using all his Busoshoku haki to block attacks from Luffy, Law, Zoro, Kid, Killer, Drake, Apoo, and Urouge, Bonney eventually turns him into an old man and he gets outlasted. Or Law lucks out and manages to take his heart. Or a combination of the two.

There should be some casualties for the team but they should come out on top in the end.

Scenario two is rape :ignoramus


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