# M3  vs. Jozu



## MYJC (Jun 1, 2015)

Current versions. Everyone is in character, starting distance is 70m. Luffy starts out in base, he can use G4 but he's subject to the same limitations he has in the manga. No knowledge other than reputation. Match takes place on Banaro Island. 


Bonus: M3/Law/Jinbei vs. Jozu/Ace/Vista


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## tanman (Jun 1, 2015)

Jozu gets high diffed. No way he's taking a continuous pummeling from these three. G4 may not be needed.

Bonus: Luffy > Vista, Zoro + Sanji >> Ace, Law + Jinbe > Jozu


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## Bernkastel (Jun 1, 2015)

Jozu should be able to handle anything Zoro throws given his slash-immunity...he was completely unharmed by Mihawk's slash..the same slash that cut an iceberg in half effortlessly.

With that being said adding Luffy and Sanji who use blunt force they take the win with high diff at most.Zoro will chip away some of his defenses too.

Bonus : Jinbei,Luffy,Sanji beat Jozu while Law beats Vista and Zoro stalls Ace if not beat him.


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## Canute87 (Jun 1, 2015)

tanman said:


> Jozu gets high diffed. No way he's taking a continuous pummeling from these three. G4 may not be needed.
> 
> Bonus: Luffy > Vista, Zoro + Sanji >> Ace, Law + Jinbe > Jozu



Given how easy flamingo would deal with Sanji's attacks  would josu even flinch that much?

And diamond offensive and defensive seems to make that all but impossible for the current skill sets and zoro can't cut diamond yet.


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## Lawliet (Jun 1, 2015)

Zoro and Luffy are enough. high difficulty to extreme.


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## Franky (Jun 1, 2015)

The Jozu hype is so real. I feel like he gets taken out with Mid-Difficulty.

Bonus: Pretty much the same, Ace and Vista are solo venture for most of their foes, and Jozu just gets cleaned up, eventually.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jun 1, 2015)

Lol for a second my mind went to Mr.3 I was like why make this thread. Perhaps because the M3 does not exist anymore thay my mind went their second


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## Gohara (Jun 1, 2015)

1. Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji win with low to mid difficulty.  Luffy is around as powerful as Jozu, IMO, and Zoro isn't much weaker than Luffy.  Sanji is powerful enough to put up a decent fight against Jozu as well.

2. Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Law, and Jinbe win with mid to high difficulty.  Law defeats Vista with high to extremely high difficulty.  That's partially speculative, though.  Zoro defeats Ace with high to extremely high difficulty.  Zoro is likely physically stronger and has better defense than Ace.  Luffy, Jinbe, and Sanji defeat Jozu with low to mid difficulty.  Maybe around mid difficulty.  Again, I think Luffy is around as powerful as Jozu and that Jinbe and Sanji are powerful enough to put up decent fights against Jozu.  So combined they should be well above Jozu's level.


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## tanman (Jun 1, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> Given how easy flamingo would deal with Sanji's attacks  would josu even flinch that much?
> 
> And diamond offensive and defensive seems to make that all but impossible for the current skill sets and zoro can't cut diamond yet.



This is going to be really hard for most people to stomach but I'm going to go ahead and say it:
I think Doflamingo has better CoA than Jozu. In fact, I think when he's fresh (since we now know that one's Haki weakens as they keep fighting, meaning the CoA that blocked DJ >>> the CoA that blocked Kong Gun) Dofla's CoA is nearly on par with that of someone like Marco. Hear me out.

Jozu's only CoA feats to go off are him crushing Croc (who quickly got back up) and him hitting an off-guard Aokiji. We tend to associate physically strong characters with better CoA use, but I think that relationship fails with Jozu. In comparison, Dofla crushed Smoker, no-sold all of Sanji's attacks when his Haki was at its best, took Jet Gatling and Red Hawk without trouble, and his passive CoA proved strong enough to resist Law's ability outside of very close quarters. 

Jozu is reliant mostly on his diamond body and immense physical strength. But when there's an opening in his diamond body, he can be struck (likely even by blades). And his immense strength will only get him so far when these three are so speed focused.


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## Franky (Jun 1, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Lol for a second my mind went to Mr.3 I was like why make this thread. Perhaps because the M3 does not exist anymore thay my mind went their second



Mr. 3 solos Jozu, no diff.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jun 1, 2015)

Franky said:


> Mr. 3 solos Jozu, no diff.



Well of course that's why I was like wtf. The righthand of Clown Star Buggy is of course way beyond the likes of jozu.

Anyway to answer this thread.

Sanji can't Hurt Jozu

Zoro can't hurt Jozu

Luffy can't hurt Jozu.

So Jozu wins.


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## Yuki (Jun 1, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Well of course that's why I was like wtf. The righthand of Clown Star Buggy is of course way beyond the likes of jozu.
> 
> Anyway to answer this thread.
> 
> ...



Except from the fact Diamond can be smashed with hammer used by a 5 year old. It's literally as weak as common rock vs blunt force. 

What happened when Luffy punched rock again?

Don't even bother using the line. "Real life psychics don't work for manga." 

It's not fucking psychics, it's common fucking sense. Diamond is rock, and gets smashed just as easily as rock. It's just uncutable rock.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jun 1, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> Except from the fact Diamond can be smashed with hammer used by a 5 year old. It's literally as weak as common rock vs blunt force.
> 
> What happened when Luffy punched rock again?
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 








M3 are doing shit to jozu.


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## Franky (Jun 1, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Well of course that's why I was like wtf. The righthand of Clown Star Buggy is of course way beyond the likes of jozu.



+Rep for you

Edit; you don't use rep.


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## Yuki (Jun 1, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yea, nice slashing attack he blocked there.

Truly shows that he can take blunt force attacks. >_> 

Fk you.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jun 1, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> Yea, nice slashing attack he blocked there.
> 
> Truly shows that he can take blunt force attacks. >_>
> 
> Fk you.



This responce shows you don't even know why Diamonds are more resistant to cutting then blunt force.

Hell I bet you don't even know the difference between cutting\blunt force


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## MYJC (Jun 1, 2015)

The power inflation would just be retarded if current M3 were incapable of hurting Jozu. 

Kong Gun can knock Doffy several miles away but Jozu doesn't even feel it.


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## Jossaff (Jun 1, 2015)

M3 takes it with High(low)? diff , tho i do believe Luffy would need to use G4 .

Bonus: King Kong Luffy > Vista ,  Zoro & Sanji > Ace , Law & Jinbe > Jozu , Law could fuck up Jozu pretty badly .


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## Amol (Jun 2, 2015)

tanman said:


> This is going to be really hard for most people to stomach but I'm going to go ahead and say it:
> I think Doflamingo has better CoA than Jozu. In fact, I think when he's fresh (*since we now know that one's Haki weakens as they keep fighting, meaning the CoA that blocked DJ >>> the CoA that blocked Kong Gun*) Dofla's CoA is nearly on par with that of someone like Marco. Hear me out.
> 
> Jozu's only CoA feats to go off are him crushing Croc (who quickly got back up) and him hitting an off-guard Aokiji. We tend to associate physically strong characters with better CoA use, but I think that relationship fails with Jozu. In comparison, Dofla crushed Smoker, no-sold all of Sanji's attacks when his Haki was at its best, took Jet Gatling and Red Hawk without trouble, and his passive CoA proved strong enough to resist Law's ability outside of very close quarters.
> ...



Manga proof for bolded?
Because if I remember correctly WB showed his best Haki feats when he was at death's door.
And hitting Logia Admiral is better haki feat than say no selling Sanji or Smoker's attacks.
Someone like Enel trained his body to go intag if attacked even he is in sleep .
So did Crocodile.
Aokiji was in enemy territory when Jozu hit him. Surely you would think he was prepared for taking few hits .


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## Yuki (Jun 2, 2015)

Amol said:


> Manga proof for bolded?
> Because if I remember correctly WB showed his best Haki feats when he was at death's door.
> *And hitting Logia Admiral is better haki feat than say no selling Sanji or Smoker's attacks.
> *Someone like Enel trained his body to go intag if attacked even he is in sleep .
> ...



>_> Not really... Anyone that knows haki can hit a logia no matter who that logia is.

Pre skip Luffy made Garp bleed so you cannot even say that Jozu making Kuzan bleed from a surprise attack is anything special.


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## Amol (Jun 2, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> >_> Not really... *Anyone that knows haki can hit a logia no matter who that logia is.
> *
> 
> Pre skip Luffy made Garp bleed so you cannot even say that Jozu making Kuzan bleed from a surprise attack is anything special.



Wrong comparison.
Garp allowed Luffy to hit him. It means he wasn't using any haki to defend himself.
Unlike him Aokiji was fighting with WB himself. Pretty sure Aokiji won't be idiot enough to enter in enemy territory, engage with WB without having his best defense on .
Because that would make Aokiji retardest character in OPverse.
Jozu's feat is impressive because he overcame Aokiji's defense. A very impressive feat.
And if bolded is correct then according you Boa Marigold can bypass Akainu's logia defense , right ?


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## RileyD (Jun 2, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> This responce shows you don't even know why Diamonds are more resistant to cutting then blunt force.
> 
> Hell I bet you don't even know the difference between cutting\blunt force


Hardness =/= Toughness. Joz cannot infinitely tank blunt force. Showing him tank a ranged slash as evidence of his blunt force resistance and how "G4 luffy can't hurt him" is silly.

Buggy can stall Mihawk if restricted to slashing only, and Luffy could stall a haki restricted Prime Garp...



Amol said:


> Wrong comparison.
> Garp allowed Luffy to hit him. It means he wasn't using any haki to defend himself.
> Unlike him Aokiji was fighting with WB himself. Pretty sure Aokiji won't be idiot enough to enter in enemy territory, engage with WB without having his best defense on .
> Because that would make Aokiji retardest character in OPverse.
> ...


In chapter 567 we see Aokiji was surprised when Jozu hit him. The attack happened when Aokiji was being skewered and immobilised by WB. He did not have his full defense up to be hit from that angle as he was focused on WB.
The attack didn't even push aokiji off the ship. G4 Luffy would do more damage and VASTLY more knockback to a distracted immobile Aokiji.
Jozu got one shot when Aokiji hit him. This wasn't just Jozu being distracted either, he has inferior speed, reactions and has no way of breaking out of the ice himself. *Jozu didn't last one whole chapter against Aokiji and had his arm broken off in 568*


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## Yuki (Jun 2, 2015)

Amol said:


> And if bolded is correct then according you Boa Marigold can bypass Akainu's logia defense , right ?



She can hit him yes. Although she'd die doing it.


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## Kobe (Jun 2, 2015)

Good. Another related thread. 

We need some of these opinions in reshaping the tier list.



Kobe said:


> Dear residents of OL, we need some help with reshaping the tier list in OP Battledome. Come cast your votes so that we can have a quality tier list to be used in awesome tournaments ahead.
> 
> Link:
> 
> +Reps to all voters.


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## Franky (Jun 2, 2015)

Kobe shameless self promoting


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## Finalbeta (Jun 2, 2015)

I always put Jozu (with both arms) at DD level, so he should be <= DD, in this case the trio wins with mid difficult


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## Shanks (Jun 2, 2015)

opinions of M3 level fighters have really changed over the past month or so here, huh?


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## The 64 Gates of Jyuuken (Jun 3, 2015)

Yea... Jozu's taking this and pretty easily at that

Unless you can prove that either 

A) The M3 have much more powerful attacks than even the Worlds Strongest Slash which was effortlessly tanked

OR

B) The combined strength of the M3 is at least that of an Admiral because that what it would take to beat Jozu with the difficulty you are saying 

Which neither one would makes any from a story perspective for the M3 to be able to take an near Admiral level opponent this early on 

Overall, I see it as the M3 not being able to land enough consecutive damage to be able to defeat Jozu before the are themself defeated 

Jozu mid difficulty


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## Raid3r2010 (Jun 3, 2015)

The mighty JoZ with mid-high diff.


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## Green Monkey (Jun 3, 2015)

Monster trio wins mid difficulty. High diff if it was Zoro + Luffy. Jozu is so massively over rated it's hilarious. Jozo blocked the "worlds strongest slash", bravo. Luffy evaded the Worlds Strongest Swordsman who deliberately said he was going all out. How is Jozu ever going to hit post-skip Luffy if Mihawk couldn't hit pre-skip Luffy? (Sarcasm if anyone can't sense it.)

People using war feats are the bane of the battledome, especially off panel feats and 1 attack encounters which have proven to be unreliable in One Piece over and over again. The idea that Jozu could mid diff the entire monster trio together is so hilariously nonsensical I can't believe I'm reading the same manga.


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## Yuki (Jun 3, 2015)

The 64 Gates of Jyuuken said:


> Yea... Jozu's taking this and pretty easily at that
> 
> Unless you can prove that either
> 
> ...



I can already smell ignore list material. :faceplam

1. Diamond tanking a slashing attack is not a tanking feat. The only feat there is lifting the slash aka a strength feat. Vista also stopped that same slash with his swords and i am willing to bet at this stage Zoro could do that as well while Luffy and Sanji would simply dodge it 

2. An admiral literally oneshot Jozu on panel when the latter turned his head somewhat 30 degree's. 

3. Diamond is weaker than a human body vs blunt force. The same impact that would smash a diamond into dust would give a little bruise to a human body.


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## Canute87 (Jun 3, 2015)

I wonder if Oda sees this the same way as you guys do.

I honestly doubt it.


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## Coruscation (Jun 3, 2015)

Apparently people on this forum don't understand that a slash of the level of force that Mihawk's slash was at carries with it a fuckton of concussive force. 

Color me surprised.


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## Yuki (Jun 3, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> Apparently people on this forum don't understand that a slash of the level of force that Mihawk's slash was at carries with it a fuckton of concussive force.
> 
> Color me surprised.



Which is why i said strength feat. >_> Idiota.


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## Coruscation (Jun 3, 2015)

Concussive force breaks things that are brittle. Obviously this is what you don't understand. But I'm the idiot. Sure.


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## Canute87 (Jun 3, 2015)

Juvia, i've seen the scientific explanations before.

In this manga it doesn't work the way you hope it will.


Oda is quite basic when it comes to these things.


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## Yuki (Jun 3, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> Juvia, i've seen the scientific explanations before.
> 
> In this manga it doesn't work the way you hope it will.
> 
> ...



Yes he is. As well as giving them basic and easy to understand weaknesses. 

Diamond breaking due to blunt force is a damn right fact. If it does not than IT IS NOT DIAMOND.

You don't need to here a "scientific explanation" to understand that. It's a basic factor of diamond. Saying it won't break from a high enough blunt force impact is like saying that Ice won't melt to fire or that electricity won't become unstable in water.  

Unless Oda is a complete and utter idiot then he is not keeping that fact out of OP.

@Coruscation Maybe you need to do some research. Diamond has been used in drills before. You can make it to be able to withstand such pressures easily. Blunt force trauma though can easily break even the drill diamond which is why the drill has to move slowly so that any accidental impact does not damage the diamonds in the drill. 

Diamond is a rock, rocks can be smashed pretty easily. This includes crystals like Diamond. Even tampered ones.


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## Dunno (Jun 3, 2015)

The SHs haven't shown anything that could hurt Jozu. Mid diff for the diamond-man.


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## Canute87 (Jun 3, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> Yes he is. As well as giving them basic and easy to understand weaknesses.
> 
> Diamond breaking due to blunt force is a damn right fact. If it does not than IT IS NOT DIAMOND.
> 
> ...



When you say something like the "human body is capable of taking more damage than diamond" is where the science essentially falls to Oda's universe. Because  scientifically it would make sense for attacks that break through josu's defence  to do little damage to people with skin and bone.

This clearly is not going to be the case  as Oda has set up diamond to be one of the hardest substances in this manga. Seastone, the unbreakable substance has been compared to diamond, mr 1 set up up Zoro's next cutting feat after cutting steel,  through the course of the manga there has been many materials that the SH have shown considerable effort in breaking being compared to steel as a baseline hardness.  The pacisita took a shitload of power and force to break through the metal, PH Dragon also took a shitload of force  it also goes with simple reason that the strongest material is going to take far stronger force to break, not the equivalent of a regular hammer.

This is not the first time I've seen this where people use the science behind it all,  back when Luffy went up against Enel,  posters were mad because there's no way Rubber should be completely effective against that much voltage of electricity,  the heat alone should have melted him, this of course clearly did not happen; Science vs Oda's universe.

Also  Magma burning fire was something many people contested because  fire can reach to higher temperatures than magma.  Once again  Oda doesn't care about that level of science.

You are believing too much in the science to look on how the manga itself has been designed.

Is  Blunt force going to be more effective against Josu than Cutting?  Yes
Is the current force of the characters capable of doing that? Scientifically yes, Oda's design,  No.

It's just that simple.


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Jun 3, 2015)

All this name calling in this thread, gee calm down and don't be so inflammatory 



Canute87 said:


> I wonder if Oda sees this the same way as you guys do.
> 
> I honestly doubt it.



I think I agree.... Oda wouldn't have given someone like kreig diamond knuckles... or perhaps even jozu using his diamond body for blunt force attacks


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## tanman (Jun 3, 2015)

Amol said:


> Manga proof for bolded?
> Because if I remember correctly WB showed his best Haki feats when he was at death's door.



Everyone keeps babbling about how Luffy needs to "recover" his Haki.


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## Yuki (Jun 3, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> mr 1 set up up Zoro's next cutting feat after cutting steel, .



Because Diamond cannot be cut by metal. 

Putting cutting and blunt force in the same bracket and saying because he can tank a cutting attack then he can tank the same level of blunt force attack is idiotic. 

Ffs how often do people in this forum say Cutting >>> Blunt Force

But for once when it's time for blunt force to be more effective vs someone everyone just goes haha shut up no no no, you're wrong and stupid and don't know what you're talking about.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jun 3, 2015)

The concussive force behind mihawks attacks still shit on luffys\sanjis output.

If a real life diamond the size of jozu got hit by Mihawk's attack it would not by cut in half it would be erased from existence.


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## Canute87 (Jun 3, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> *Because Diamond cannot be cut by metal. *
> 
> Putting cutting and blunt force in the same bracket and saying because he can tank a cutting attack then he can tank the same level of blunt force attack is idiotic.
> 
> Ffs how often do people in this forum say Cutting >>> Blunt Force



Up until the time Zoro actually does it.



> But for once when it's time for blunt force to be more effective vs someone everyone just goes haha shut up no no no, you're wrong and stupid and don't know what you're talking about.



I can't really speak for others who say that, but this isn't a general blunt vs cutting.  This is about the blunt force that is going to take down Josu's defense relative to person dealing the damage.

While diamond has a natural strength against cutting,  the blunt force  that you described to break it,  is not something that is going to happen in *this manga*, there is just no possible way.

By the time Luffy faces off against that level of hardness he'll be much stronger than he is currently,  While at some point  Zoro might need to call down the lord Jesus Christ Himself to generate an attack to overcome that hardness Luffy might just need a powerful attack  it doesn't take away that their current level isn't sufficient.

We are still on a Steel platform.  Diamond hardness has not been contested yet, by the time it is  these people will have been much stronger.  Diamond is top tier of hard materials to break through whatever force whether blunt or cut,  Oda has set it up this way.


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## Yuki (Jun 3, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> Up until the time Zoro actually does it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's your opinion that goes against the facts of what the material actually is. 

If it is what you think it is, then it's simply not even diamond.


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## The 64 Gates of Jyuuken (Jun 3, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> I can already smell ignore list material. :faceplam
> 
> 1.* Diamond tanking a slashing attack is not a tanking feat. The only feat there is lifting the slash aka a strength feat. *Vista also stopped that same slash with his swords and i am willing to bet at this stage Zoro could do that as well while Luffy and Sanji would simply dodge it



So taking damage is a strength feat?? Sounds logical 



> 2. An admiral literally oneshot Jozu on panel when the latter turned his head somewhat 30 degree's.


Said Admiral could oneshot anyone with their guard down



> 3. Diamond is weaker than a human body vs blunt force. The same impact that would smash a diamond into dust would give a little bruise to a human body.



A human body and a diamond both drop from 10000 meters in the air. Guess which ones taking more damage?


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## Yuki (Jun 3, 2015)

The 64 Gates of Jyuuken said:


> So taking damage is a strength feat?? Sounds logical



Emm... no . Catching the slash, stopping it and then deflecting it is a strength feat. 




The 64 Gates of Jyuuken said:


> Said Admiral could oneshot anyone with their guard down



He didn't oneshot DD that has his head 100% completely away from him AND was trying to finish off his friend.




The 64 Gates of Jyuuken said:


> A human body and a diamond both drop from 10000 meters in the air. Guess which ones taking more damage?



Diamond would completely shatter into dust upon impact whereas a human body would stay mostly intact and the human could actually survive.

Soo... emm yea... Diamond is taking more damage.


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## Canute87 (Jun 3, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> That's your opinion that goes against the facts of what the material actually is.
> 
> If it is what you think it is, then it's simply not even diamond.



It's not about what I think it is, but how Oda has made it and how the thought process synchronise with the rules of the manga itself,  it doesn't make sense we are arguing a point that the manga author doesn't support.

Iron  <  Steel  <  Diamond. 

Force to break Iron < Force to break Steel < Force to break diamond. This is what Oda has set up.

This is how it's going to be,  but if you want to stick with the science you are going to end up disappointed when things happen in the manga goes against the realistic viewpoint.  
This is exactly what happened with the other two examples I gave you. It is what is is.  Oda isn't writing to please scientists.


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## Yuki (Jun 3, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> It's not about what I think it is, but how Oda has made it and how the thought process synchronise with the rules of the manga itself,  it doesn't make sense we are arguing a point that the manga author doesn't support.
> 
> Iron  <  Steel  <  Diamond.
> 
> Force to break Iron < Force to break Steel < Force to break diamond. This is what Oda has set up.



Please show me statements or Oda him self stating this is how it works in the manga.

Until you can, it's your opinion and what you think.


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## Canute87 (Jun 3, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> Please show me statements or Oda him self stating this is how it works in the manga.
> 
> Until you can, it's your opinion and what you think.



Why exactly do you need to see an explicit statement from Oda? Why exactly would Oda waste time ding that?

By simple virture of the fact that he's not started to explore diamond hardness and is still at *steel* is supposed to tell you something.  
The same fact that he went to tell you that the so far indestructible seastone as hardness akin to diamond are suppose to be the obvious hints.  Nobody has been shown capable of destroying seastone. How exactly do you draw a conclusion that when the time luffy and co boasts much higher levels of power to break something harder, their steel breaking attacks arcs before were already sufficient.  Please think within the manga's context.

But if you want to ignore that you can believe what you want,  I am very sure you'll end up disappointed.  

As I said before, you are not the first person with a scientific viewpoint.


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## Yuki (Jun 3, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> Why exactly do you need to see an explicit statement from Oda? Why exactly would Oda waste time ding that?
> 
> By simple virture of the fact that he's not started to explore diamond hardness and is still at *steel* is supposed to tell you something.
> The same fact that he went to tell you that the so far indestructible seastone as hardness akin to diamond are suppose to be the obvious hints.  Nobody has been shown capable of destroying seastone. How exactly do you draw a conclusion that when the time luffy and co boasts much higher levels of power to break something harder, their steel breaking attacks arcs before were already sufficient.  Please think within the manga's context.
> ...



Because unless it's stated directly as that is you cannot say BS like "That's haw Oda has made it." It's just your pot of view. Not a fact and as such saying. "That's how Oda has made it." Is BS.

Unless you can show me where someone or something in the manga saying it like DD said about Luffy being weakened and Luffy saying DD is weakened then it is not a fact at all and is just your view or things.


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## Tenma (Jun 3, 2015)

Well, if you are using 'storytelling perspective' here, then it makes no sense for the entire SH crew combined to be mid diffed by/unable to scratch fucking Jozu when they are gunning for 2 Yonkou now.

(Also the whole iron->steel->diamond thing applies to Zoro alone, Luffy was smashing reinforced steel back in East Blue before Mr 1 even appeared)


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## SacredX (Jun 3, 2015)

The Monster Trio win this battle.  I really believe Jozu's abilities are overestimated on this forum.


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## Coruscation (Jun 4, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> Yes he is. As well as giving them basic and easy to understand weaknesses.
> 
> Diamond breaking due to blunt force is a damn right fact. If it does not than IT IS NOT DIAMOND.
> 
> ...



Mihawk's slash HAD A TON OF IMPACT. 
Guess what it did to Jozu's diamond?
Nothing. 

The concussive force from a sword slash can and will break objects even if it fails to cut them. Zoro vs Hatchans swords. The IMPACT shattered the swords. The impact from the slash would have shattered Jozu if his diamond couldn't resist massive concussive force. The sheer strength of OP characters mean that even sharp attacks will have colossal impact force beside their cutting power. See Oni Giri matching Luffys Bazooka equally. Mihawk's slash being as huge as it was also covered a broad surface area. It is essentially an extremely oversized sword hammering down on Jozu. If Jozu's diamond was so fucking fragile to impacts it would have stood piss all of a chance to withstand that hit period.


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## Yuki (Jun 4, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> Mihawk's slash HAD A TON OF IMPACT.
> Guess what it did to Jozu's diamond?
> Nothing.



No, Jozu *caught *that slash with his hands. It did not hit him directly.

As such please stfu about that fking attack already. It's all you can ever bring up. :faceplam Honestly talk about a one trick pony. 

Also the reason Diamonds can be used as weapons is as simple as this, diamond does take more damage than a human body would from an impact, however diamond is still a solid rock. Rocks fking hurt when they hit you. 

I guarantee that if Luffy's fists clashed with Kriegs now that his diamond knuckles would shatter.

Just like if Luffy clashed with a steel bat now the steel would break. 

It does not mean such things cannot be used as weapons. They still fking hurt. A lot more than humans fists do. 

You guys only know one half of my opinion on this matter. The part were i argueyou cannot say shit like. "They cannot get passed his diamond defense." 

I am not saying that his DF is not helpful to Jozu in this battle.

The fact is i am with the group that think the Diamond is just a cover over his skin that he can control. I do not think that his body it's self is diamond. 

As such there is still a human body under the diamond to soften the blunt force impact. But that also means that the force goes through the diamond. As such the. "They cannot get passed his diamond defense." Line is bs. Not only can they break the diamond making Jozu have to repair/replace that bit of it, but the impact goes through the diamond even if it does not. 

The diamond increases the impact of his own attacks, while stopping any cutting attacks that can happen. Including cuts that can be gained from blunt force attacks. 

However, taking a hit is still taking a hit and he will take damage from every single hard hit that the M3 have to offer.

Jozu > G2/G3 Luffy
Jozu > Zoro
Jozu > Sanji

But

While in G4 Luffy > Jozu
Zoro & Sanji > Jozu

With all 3 it's barely even mid dif.


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## Coruscation (Jun 4, 2015)

No it crashed straight into him. That's why there was a gigantic impact shock as opposed to it just stopping and his face/body was bruised as opposed to not being bruised. Or does your face get bruised when you grab something with your hands? Jozu took the slash straight to his body. 

Because I have the grade school level reading comprehension to tell that it was an attack Oda meant to be an extremely impressive feat to stop and people like you try to downplay it.


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## Yuki (Jun 4, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> No it crashed straight into him. That's why there was a gigantic impact shock as opposed to it just stopping and his face/body was bruised as opposed to not being bruised. Or does your face get bruised when you grab something with your hands? Jozu took the slash straight to his body.
> 
> Because I have the grade school level reading comprehension to tell that it was an attack Oda meant to be an extremely impressive feat to stop and people like you try to downplay it.



He was not bruised at all. >_> A giant attack of that level of course there is going to be some little marks going around. If you look closely at the impact his hands are in front of him. 

Also even if he was bruised it just makes you look like a fool for using it. If he's bruised it means he took damage from the attack. >_>


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## Finalbeta (Jun 4, 2015)

If G4 is allowed Jozu dies in few minutes considering there are also Sanji and Zoro here, Zoro alone can stall Jozu for a minute or two before getting his ass destroyed


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## The 64 Gates of Jyuuken (Jun 4, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> Emm... no . Catching the slash, stopping it and then deflecting it is a strength feat.





He obviously took the attack and suffered very little damage from it

An attack *MUCH MORE POWERFUL* than anything the *M3 combined* can dish out






> He didn't oneshot DD that has his head 100% completely away from him AND was trying to finish off his friend.



Like I said ANYONE can be oneshotted by that Admiral IF CAUGHT OFFGUARD

Doflamingo obviously was not off guard against Aokiji 



, indicating Jozu had done such 




> Diamond would completely shatter into dust upon impact whereas a human body would stay mostly intact and the human could actually survive.
> 
> Soo... emm yea... Diamond is taking more damage.



No, its not 

An inanimate object is not taking more damage from a fall than a living human, much less the hardest of known substances

10000 m = approx 6 mi.

At those heights, the human body would explode on impact the moment it hit the ground, meanwhile the diamond will still be somewhat intact 

I'm done arguing with you
Please don't respond or quote me if you're going to ignore common sense, comprehension, and logic




Juvia. said:


> But
> 
> While in G4 Luffy > Jozu
> Zoro & Sanji > Jozu
> ...



  I don't even know how to address the stupidity of the post

The fact that you believe a fight with a low-mid top tier against the M3 would be barely mid difficulty for the latter just means that by the logic they should be able to defeat an Admiral with high mid to low high difficulty 

Something even the Post-Marineford BB Pirates were afraid the couldn't do, even with the acquisition of new members and BB have the Gura and Yami fruits 

I just don't think its plausible for the M3 to go from easily beating Pacifistas to be able to easily beat Jozu this early on in the New World

Its one thing to think they can win, but to imply they can win at the difficulty you are saying is nothing short of pure and utter retardation



Juvia. said:


> *He was not bruised at all. >_> A giant attack of that level of course there is going to be some little marks going around.* If you look closely at the impact his hands are in front of him.
> 
> *Also even if he was bruised it just makes you look like a fool for using it*. If he's bruised it means he took damage from the attack. >_>



I addressed this earlier in the post above

If you look closely he has bruise marks on his face and body. Pay close attention.  


Yes, he took damage but it wasn't enough to hurt him, hence him being a tank


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## Green Monkey (Jun 4, 2015)

Finalbeta said:


> If G4 is allowed Jozu dies in few minutes considering there are also Sanji and Zoro here, Zoro alone can stall Jozu for a minute or two before getting his ass destroyed



Nope...apparently people still think Jozu can essentially Solo the entire fucken SH crew with mid difficulty...OPBD is a joke sometimes. The idea that Jozu is this strong is so dumb it's not even worth arguing over.


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## Canute87 (Jun 4, 2015)

Tenma said:


> Well, if you are using 'storytelling perspective' here, then it makes no sense for the entire SH crew combined to be mid diffed by/unable to scratch fucking Jozu when they are gunning for 2 Yonkou now.
> 
> (Also the whole iron->steel->diamond thing applies to Zoro alone, Luffy was smashing reinforced steel back in East Blue before Mr 1 even appeared)



Luffy's attacks  didn't do all that well against the pacifista.


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## Tenma (Jun 4, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> Luffy's attacks  didn't do all that well against the pacifista.



But he caved in Krieg's reinforced steel armor like nothing...and well, eventually dealt with the Pacifista using G3.

Steel had never bern portrayed as a serious obstacle to Luffy.


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## Canute87 (Jun 4, 2015)

Tenma said:


> But he caved in Krieg's reinforced steel armor like nothing...and well, eventually dealt with the Pacifista using G3.
> 
> Steel had never bern portrayed as a serious obstacle to Luffy.




I honestly doubt kreig's armour is of the same quality as daz bones body.

Luffy has also never shown *that *much tenacity above what Zoro could do.  G3 was a finisher but everyone else chipped in.


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## Tenma (Jun 4, 2015)

Yeah, Daz Bones>Krieg.

My point is that Luffy's never been.part of the 'iron<steel<diamond' progression. That's Zoro's schtick alone. Just because Zoro hasn't cut diamond yet doesn't mean Luffy can't break it. Especially since Luffy would have an easier time doing it than Zoro anyway.

The Pacifista>Luffy at the time, so he needed help.


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## Finalbeta (Jun 5, 2015)

Green Monkey said:


> Nope...apparently people still think Jozu can essentially Solo the entire fucken SH crew with mid difficulty...OPBD is a joke sometimes. The idea that Jozu is this strong is so dumb it's not even worth arguing over.



Jozu is a pussy to be honest

He couldn't even break Aokiji's ice

He is perhaps weaker than Doflamingo since he could

I'm sure that Luffy could solo him even with just 30 minutes


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## Yuki (Jun 5, 2015)

The 64 Gates of Jyuuken said:


> Doflamingo obviously was not off guard against Aokiji



I stopped reading the second you applied that Jozu who was just fighting Kuzan face to face after turning his head 30 degree's while in a FUCKING WAR ZONE! was caught more off guard than DD was while having his back to him and having no idea he was there at all a second before hand.

This argument is even worse than the one where people say DD surprise attacked him to get parasite off even though HE WAS STANDING IN HIS SIGHTS! 

Honestly, every fucking attack may as well be a surprise attack/caught off guard attack to Jozu. He gets caught off guard/by surprise so bloody often... You know what forget it... 

-Snip-

Don't brother replying i won't be able to see your message due to you being ignored.


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## Dunno (Jun 5, 2015)

Green Monkey said:


> Nope...apparently people still think Jozu can essentially Solo the entire fucken SH crew with mid difficulty...OPBD is a joke sometimes. The idea that Jozu is this strong is so dumb it's not even worth arguing over.



Jozu actually had the upper hand against Aokiji before getting caught off-guard, what more does he have to do to show you guys how strong he is? Mid diff is being generous to the SHs.


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## The 64 Gates of Jyuuken (Jun 5, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> I stopped reading the second you applied that Jozu who was just fighting Kuzan face to face after turning his head 30 degree's while in a FUCKING WAR ZONE! was caught more off guard than DD was while having his back to him and having no idea he was there at all a second before hand.
> 
> This argument is even worse than the one where people say DD surprise attacked him to get parasite off even though HE WAS STANDING IN HIS SIGHTS!
> 
> ...



So Doflamingo didn't know Aokiji was there even tho Aokiji said something to him? 

It's not my fault you're a retard that doesn't know how to read the fucking manga


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## Tenma (Jun 5, 2015)

Blocking Mihawk's air slash that, unlike the tsunami splitter (which is still less impressive than Daisen Sekai or even 1080 PC) should have lost considerable momentum from cleaving through several kilometres of rock before finally reaching Jozu ain't that impressive. I mean, yeah, it is a good feat, a damn good one even, but it hardly means the M3 can't hurt him.


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## Dunno (Jun 5, 2015)

Tenma said:


> Blocking Mihawk's air slash that, unlike the tsunami splitter (which is still less impressive than Daisen Sekai or even 1080 PC) should have lost considerable momentum from cleaving through several kilometres of rock before finally reaching Jozu ain't that impressive. I mean, yeah, it is a good feat, a damn good one even, but it hardly means the M3 can't hurt him.



Nah, I know. I'm pretty sure they would win.


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