# Magi by the creator of Sumomomo Momomo  - Part 2



## Tazmo (Feb 23, 2014)

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is *Here*


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## Tazmo (Feb 23, 2014)

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is *Here*


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## Swagger Wagon (Feb 23, 2014)

I'm conflicted on whether all the sameface in this chapter is intentional or not.
Ugo looks like a handsome square chinned Alibaba. Sinbad is probably going to be Solomon's new incarnation. I'll bet $5 that Alibaba's mom/the woman beside Ugo will look suspiciously like Morg. Is Ugo or Solomon supposed to be Aladdin's dad?

This manga will take a very awkward turn if Aladdin has been surrounded by incarnations of his parents all this time


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## Smoke (Feb 23, 2014)

Shit's getting sirius


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## Zaru (Feb 23, 2014)

Alma Tazmoran taking over not one, but TWO of the first posts. 

Anyway, loving all this exposition.


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## Sphyer (Feb 23, 2014)

Glad to see Ugo's identity has been revealed at last


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## Swagger Wagon (Feb 23, 2014)

But what Gyoukuen does have the exact same silhouette as Aladdin's mom doesn't she?

I don't know what the fuck is going on anymore.


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## Stannis (Feb 23, 2014)

loving the chapter. 

focalor  



Swagger Wagon said:


> I'm conflicted on whether all the sameface in this chapter is intentional or not.
> Ugo looks like a handsome square chinned Alibaba. Sinbad is probably going to be Solomon's new incarnation. I'll bet $5 that Alibaba's mom/*the woman beside Ugo will look suspiciously like Morg.* Is Ugo or Solomon supposed to be Aladdin's dad?
> 
> This manga will take a very awkward turn if Aladdin has been surrounded by incarnations of his parents all this time



she's the kou empress/hakuryuu 's mother whatever her name was methinks. 

I think the magi that was speaking to solomon would turn out to be aladdin's father. and the leader of al thamen from the other world. 

---------
Ithnan is two in arabic btw.


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## Blunt (Feb 23, 2014)

> *That's Gyokuen not Aladdin.* Far as the magi thing goes we've seen semi covered pictures of them in a previous flashback. Ugo and that girl match the previous designs.


You're right. 

They have the same staff. But she looks so much like Aladdin there. I find it strange that she was a boy in her past life (which is strange because I thought she didn't re-incarnate). Though, knowing the author, she could have just been a young boy-looking woman.


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## Blunt (Feb 23, 2014)

Boshi said:


> *she's the kou empress/hakuryuu 's mother whatever her name was methinks. *
> 
> *I think the magi that was speaking to solomon would turn out to be aladdin's father. and the leader of al thamen from the other world. *
> 
> ...


Nope, the one talking to Solomon was Gyouken. We still don't know who the other one is (probably Aladdin's mother).


*Spoiler*: _same staff_


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## Deleted member 234422 (Feb 23, 2014)

Why? What is the point of having drawn so many similar faces?


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## Wesley (Feb 24, 2014)

The one speaking to Solomon was Aladdin.  Gyokouen is the woman behind Ugo and is Aladdin's mother.  Although, what am I thinking?  That would actually result in Aladdin being an interesting character.  No way it could be...

En (17) kneeling to Hakuei (12) was adorable.


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## Drakor (Feb 24, 2014)

So Ugo is a Magi that turned into a Djinn, guess this means it isn't limited to metal vessal users and assimilated households.

It would be interesting if the one speaking to Soloman wasn't merely a person Gyokuen adopted ideals and the staff from, but was truly Aladdin himself in adult form or the "father" of Al Thamen. However I dislike this idea, since it makes a hole in regards to whom the "mother" in his flashback was during the arc prior to Magnostadt... unless that aforementioned scene was before he grew up to be a magi of Solomon.

Edit: Yea, I'll go with the simplistic viewpoint of Gyokuen being the villain speaking to Solomon while in her youth, and that Aladdin has not been born/created yet based on this. Still its pretty funny how Aladdin rushed the story when asked who the person next to Ugo was...


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## Dark (Feb 24, 2014)

Subscribing to new thread.


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## Saphira (Feb 25, 2014)

Apparently, Ohtaka said on websunday.net, along with the release of the new volume cover, that some characters are going to die soon...(btw, this is the tumblr of a sense-scans translator).


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## ~Howling~ (Feb 25, 2014)

Damn.
On the other hand,that cover is awesome.


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## Saphira (Feb 25, 2014)

I'm pretty sure it's not going to be any main character though, maybe someone from alma toran?


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## Wesley (Feb 25, 2014)

I hope it's Aladdin.


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## Roman (Feb 26, 2014)

^Of course you would.

I'm not putting my hopes on a minor character getting offed but I seriously doubt it'll be one of the main 3 characters (Alibaba, Aladdin and Morgiana).


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## Black Knight (Feb 26, 2014)

Wesley said:


> I hope it's Aladdin.



You're a lost cause.


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## Wesley (Feb 26, 2014)

Black Knight said:


> You're a lost cause.



Aladdin is a lost cause.


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## Malvingt2 (Feb 26, 2014)

Saphira said:


> Apparently, Ohtaka said on websunday.net, along with the release of the new volume cover, that some characters are going to die soon...(btw, this is the tumblr of a sense-scans translator).



That is huge news.. I wonder


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## Roman (Feb 26, 2014)

Wesley thinks he's reading Game of Thrones.


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## Wesley (Feb 26, 2014)

Freedan said:


> Wesley thinks he's reading Game of Thrones.



There's a difference between expecting a character to die and wanting them to die.

Although it's hard to imagine a circumstance where anyone would to be honest.  Even during the Magnostadt arc, none the of shitty mages were killed.  Pretty much fodder for a single arc and not a one was killed, even though it was a real war.

Like this little fucker;



I hate this guy, why couldn't he have been killed off?  It was even implied that Mu turned him into a pile of dust, but lo and behold, he made it out of the arc alive.  Why didn't any of those assholes die when there was really no reason at all to keep them alive?


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## Roman (Feb 26, 2014)

Wesley said:


> There's a difference between expecting a character to die and wanting them to die.



That's not actually why I said it. It's because you think every character should be a schemer or even a backstabber who would kill without hesitation, whether he thinks it's for a just cause or purely for his greed. Just like in Game of Thrones. Because Aladdin doesn't satisfy your standards, you want him dead. 

You have expectations of this manga that don't even fit with the manga and the message it tries to convey in the first place. It really looks like you don't want to read Magi because you're expecting something totally different.


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## Wesley (Feb 26, 2014)

Freedan said:


> That's not actually why I said it. It's because you think every character should be a schemer or even a backstabber who would kill without hesitation, whether he thinks it's for a just cause or purely for his greed. Just like in Game of Thrones. Because Aladdin doesn't satisfy your standards, you want him dead.



A schemer or a backstabber?  When have I given that impression? 

And all I want from Aladdin is for him to suffer consequences for his actions.  If he were content to just sit on the side-lines and think about boobs all day, more power to him, but he isn't and doesn't.  Aladdin does and says things but is never criticized, never a word against him.



> You have expectations of this manga that don't even fit with the manga and the message it tries to convey in the first place. It really looks like you don't want to read Magi because you're expecting something totally different.



My expectations for the manga are based solely upon what the manga has established.  Alibaba often wonders about what he's going to do, what can be done.  He sets goals and tries to accomplish something and other characters actually acknowledge the things he says and things he does.  Alibaba actually suffers.

Aladdin is just a little jerk off.


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## ensoriki (Feb 26, 2014)

Some characters gonna die?

Hope its Koumei.


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## Wesley (Feb 26, 2014)

Koumei is going to die in his sleep.


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## Roman (Feb 26, 2014)

Wesley said:


> A schemer or a backstabber?  When have I given that impression?
> 
> And all I want from Aladdin is for him to suffer consequences for his actions.  If he were content to just sit on the side-lines and think about boobs all day, more power to him, but he isn't and doesn't.  Aladdin does and says things but is never criticized, never a word against him.
> 
> ...



I remember your arguments during the war arc when Aladdin was doing his best to preserve lives on both sides on the conflict and you were complaining about how he's still taking sides by "attacking Reim" when he was merely pushing them back, without killing them, in order to save the people of Magnostadt, who were in turn target to Reim's aggression. I seemed as tho you wanted him to be taking lives since to you, he made a clear statement he was with Magnostadt even tho that was never the case. Thus my comment about you thinking this is Game of Thrones and not Magi.

Frankly, the fact that he is a Magi with the power to communicate directly with the Rukh in order to see into the past leaves little room for doubt. Unlike Alibaba, however, Aladdin has always had a much more solid state of being as well as a stronger sense of conviction over what he needs to do. This is partly thanks to his power, partly because he has a very innocent honesty. That is a quality that should be admired, not something to condemn as you always do (which further feeds into the impression you're likening Magi to Game of Thrones). This was a flaw that Alibaba has had and is the reason why he enters into self-conflict more often. Granted, this makes for a more interesting character because you get to see him grow, while Aladdin already appears to be mature in that sense. So the real question is: do you dislike him for his character or just because Ohtaka didn't really need him to grow throughout the series?


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## Wesley (Feb 26, 2014)

Freedan said:


> I remember your arguments during the war arc when Aladdin was doing his best to preserve lives on both sides on the conflict and you were complaining about how he's still taking sides by "attacking Reim" when he was merely pushing them back, without killing them, in order to save the people of Magnostadt, who were in turn target to Reim's aggression. I seemed as tho you wanted him to be taking lives since to you, he made a clear statement he was with Magnostadt even tho that was never the case. Thus my comment about you thinking this is Game of Thrones and not Magi.



The problem back then was many fold.  Aladdin completely disregarded Reim's side of the conflict.  He didn't know or care why Reim was attacking.  Whatever problems Magnostadt presented, Aladdin had no interest in solving them.  He immediately skipped all the small potatoes and claimed to be acting in the interests of the world...

Except, he involved himself in the war rather than deal with the actual threat to the world itself.  He ignored the Dark Spot in favor of helping his magician buddies.  If he'd at  had said that, that waned to help Magnostadt for personal reasons, that might have been okay, but he didn't.  Worst of all, even though he acted in a way that was against his stated goals and reasons, no one called him out on it.

No one lets Alibaba get away with his bullshit.  Any time he acts indecisive or like an idiot, people clamp down on him.  



> Frankly, the fact that he is a Magi with the power to communicate directly with the Rukh in order to see into the past leaves little room for doubt. Unlike Alibaba, however, Aladdin has always had a much more solid state of being as well as a stronger sense of conviction over what he needs to do. This is partly thanks to his power, partly because he has a very innocent honesty. That is a quality that should be admired, not something to condemn as you always do (which further feeds into the impression you're likening Magi to Game of Thrones). This was a flaw that Alibaba has had and is the reason why he enters into self-conflict more often. Granted, this makes for a more interesting character because you get to see him grow, while Aladdin already appears to be mature in that sense. So the real question is: do you dislike him for his character or just because Ohtaka didn't really need him to grow throughout the series?



Aladdin doesn't have doubts or has confidence because he knows what's right.  He doesn't have doubts or has confidence because he doesn't have to do anything and has no responsibilities.  He doesn't have to worry about the consequences of his actions.  he just does whatever he wants and gets away with it.

Alibaba is compelling because he has doubts for good reasons.  The situations he faces are ones that don't have easy answers to them.  No one in Alibaba's position with the kind of power Alibaba has could manage to do better, which is what makes him sympathetic and likable.

Aladdin?  It took 200 chapters to give Aladdin a pet project to call his own and when it comes down to it, I'm sure he'll more or less snap his fingers and purify the black rukh at the cost of no one.


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## CA182 (Feb 27, 2014)

Characters dying?

Oh this will be good.


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## Roman (Feb 27, 2014)

Wesley said:


> The problem back then was many fold.  Aladdin completely disregarded Reim's side of the conflict.  He didn't know or care why Reim was attacking.  Whatever problems Magnostadt presented, Aladdin had no interest in solving them.  He immediately skipped all the small potatoes and claimed to be acting in the interests of the world...
> 
> Except, he involved himself in the war rather than deal with the actual threat to the world itself.  He ignored the Dark Spot in favor of helping his magician buddies.  If he'd at  had said that, that waned to help Magnostadt for personal reasons, that might have been okay, but he didn't.  Worst of all, even though he acted in a way that was against his stated goals and reasons, no one called him out on it.



You can make an argument that he was disregarding both sides if that's how you're gonna put it. Aladdin took out the generators that were powering the monsters Magnostadt was using to fight Reim iirc, and like I said, Reim was still the aggressor in the conflict. Considering Magnostadt had no defenses thereafter, Aladdin had to push Reim back. And he still spared the lives of everyone on both sides. How do you expect a neutral party to act? Let Reim continue to attack Magnostadt? He DID have an interest in solving problems on both sides, but he also understood it couldn't be done if they were still fighting each other. He needed them to cool down first.



Wesley said:


> Aladdin doesn't have doubts or has confidence because he knows what's right.  He doesn't have doubts or has confidence because he doesn't have to do anything and has no responsibilities.  He doesn't have to worry about the consequences of his actions.  he just does whatever he wants and gets away with it.



That's BS and you know it. He took the responsibility of preserving the lives of all the people in the war by himself and somehow succeeded. He took the responsibility to speak to Hakuei to broker a peace agreement with the Kouga clan, again in order to preserve lives and stop conflicts from escalating into an all out war. He does all of that because he knows what's right.



Wesley said:


> Aladdin?  It took 200 chapters to give Aladdin a pet project to call his own and when it comes down to it, I'm sure he'll more or less snap his fingers and purify the black rukh at the cost of no one.



Aladdin's case is vastly different from Alibaba's because unlike Alibaba, when he arrived in the new world, there was nothing that connected him to it. Alibaba already had a connection to this world, just as Morgiana did and everyone else. Aladdin is the fourth Magi when there have only ever been three. By definition, it is as if he has no place in the world. His entire story has been about finding such a place, and it started with Alibaba. Is it therefore any surprise at all that it took so long to give him a pet project, as you say? And it won't be a simple matter of snapping his fingers and turning black rukh back to white, else he'd have already done it.


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## Louis Cyphre (Feb 27, 2014)

[youtube]IWx2d0YbAmg[/youtube]


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## Wesley (Feb 27, 2014)

Freedan said:


> You can make an argument that he was disregarding both sides if that's how you're gonna put it. Aladdin took out the generators that were powering the monsters Magnostadt was using to fight Reim iirc, and like I said, Reim was still the aggressor in the conflict. Considering Magnostadt had no defenses thereafter, Aladdin had to push Reim back. And he still spared the lives of everyone on both sides. How do you expect a neutral party to act? Let Reim continue to attack Magnostadt? He DID have an interest in solving problems on both sides, but he also understood it couldn't be done if they were still fighting each other. He needed them to cool down first.



Aladdin destroyed the connection to the 5th level to save the people in the 5th level.  

Reim was not the aggressor.  They were responding to Magnostadt's internal policies and aggression towards their neighbors.  Magnostadt even attacked Reim, which is just insane considering they're on the other side of an ocean.

At no point does Aladdin take into consideration Reim's problems, nor does he promise to do anything about Magnostadt.  His sole concern is the anger of the magicians.  He gave an ultimatum.  He said he would thwart any attack against Magnostadt offering nothing in return, effectively absolving Magnostadt of any responsibility for anything they've ever done.

Aladdin made no promises and offered nothing.  He'll threaten Reim for defending itself, but will not force Magnostadt to reform?  If the Medium and the Chancellor hadn't done the job for him, don't you think Aladdin would really be backed into a corner in terms of what he could do to resolve the situation that he's stepped into?

He got lucky.  Scherazade backed off completely when any responsible leader would have seen that the situation was hardly resolved.  That Magnostadt was still a corrupt and dangerous country.  That Kou was still interested in conquering them.  That Aladdin was not even officially representative of Magnostadt and didn't once say that he would do anything to change anything, let alone what he was actually willing to do.

At the very least, Aladdin's short comings as a Magi and as a person should have been evident, but that didn't happen.  He got a free pass and no one said a word against him.



> That's BS and you know it. He took the responsibility of preserving the lives of all the people in the war by himself and somehow succeeded. He took the responsibility to speak to Hakuei to broker a peace agreement with the Kouga clan, again in order to preserve lives and stop conflicts from escalating into an all out war. He does all of that because he knows what's right.



That's not responsibility.  That's interference.  No one expected him to do anything and he never promised to act in any way.  He just does whatever he wants.  If there is no obligation and there are no personal consequences, there is no responsibility.



> Aladdin's case is vastly different from Alibaba's because unlike Alibaba, when he arrived in the new world, there was nothing that connected him to it. Alibaba already had a connection to this world, just as Morgiana did and everyone else. Aladdin is the fourth Magi when there have only ever been three.



He is also a little kid.  Really, I don't necessarily have a problem with Aladdin just walking around observing things.  If he's going to beat up bandits, that's completely fine.  However, he got himself involved in a war and now he's arbitrating between the 3 most powerful countries on the planet when no one should have any reason to listen to him whatsoever.



> By definition, it is as if he has no place in the world. His entire story has been about finding such a place, and it started with Alibaba. Is it therefore any surprise at all that it took so long to give him a pet project, as you say? And it won't be a simple matter of snapping his fingers and turning black rukh back to white, else he'd have already done it.



He probably will more or less.  It will be easy and no one will get hurt in the process.  Super mega happy ending where everyone dies and goes to heaven.


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## Roman (Feb 27, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Aladdin destroyed the connection to the 5th level to save the people in the 5th level.



And that isn't indicative of his neutrality to you?



Wesley said:


> Reim was not the aggressor.  They were responding to Magnostadt's internal policies and aggression towards their neighbors.  Magnostadt even attacked Reim, which is just insane considering they're on the other side of an ocean.



Yes, they were responding to its internal policies. And what right does Reim have to do that as an external party? Magnostadt wasn't part of Reim's empire, and so Reim didn't have any right to interfere as it had absolutely no jurisdiction over its internal policies. What Reim did was a pre-emptive act of war, which even irl is illegal under international law. Don't get me wrong, I don't think what Magnostadt was doing is wrong, but what needed to be done was to hold talks with Magnostadt's leadership in order to gain a common understanding and convince Mogamett that the Goi are not all like how he's grown to view them. Attacking them was not the way to achieve that. Oh wait, Aladdin knew that too and tried to talk it out with Mogamett! How about that shit?



Wesley said:


> At no point does Aladdin take into consideration Reim's problems, nor does he promise to do anything about Magnostadt.  His sole concern is the anger of the magicians.  He gave an ultimatum.  He said he would thwart any attack against Magnostadt offering nothing in return, effectively absolving Magnostadt of any responsibility for anything they've ever done.



And rightly so. He wanted to understand why the magicians were angry with them and wanted to resolve the matter peacefully and avoid conflict. And he was also right to threaten to thwart any attack by Reim considering Aladdin *cut off Magnostadt's main line of defense when he destroyed line to "the power supply" that was the 5th district*. Aladdin basically destroyed Magnostadt's main line of defense and took responsibility for that action by taking on Reim. Beyond that, how is Aladdin in any position to understand Reim's problems? Wait.....what problems are you even talking about? Aladdin took care of that when he *cut off Magnostadt's main line of defense when he destroyed line to "the power supply" that was the 5th district*.



Wesley said:


> Aladdin made no promises and offered nothing.  He'll threaten Reim for defending itself, but will not force Magnostadt to reform?  If the Medium and the Chancellor hadn't done the job for him, don't you think Aladdin would really be backed into a corner in terms of what he could do to resolve the situation that he's stepped into?



Aladdin made no promises because he's not in a political position to do so. He's not the leader of a nation like Scheherazade, Kouen and Sinbad. Being a Magi doesn't grant him such a position. What it does grant him is the position of adviser toward his chosen king. And who is that king? Alibaba: prince of a kingdom that currently belongs to the Kou empire, meaning he has no political leverage either, as this current arc is demonstrating.

And Reim defending itself? Reim ATTACKED Magnostadt. The war took place on Magnostadt territory. What are you even reading?



Wesley said:


> He got lucky.  Scherazade backed off completely when any responsible leader would have seen that the situation was hardly resolved.  That Magnostadt was still a corrupt and dangerous country.  That Kou was still interested in conquering them.  That Aladdin was not even officially representative of Magnostadt and didn't once say that he would do anything to change anything, let alone what he was actually willing to do.



Again, what are you even reading? They're still trying to resolve that matter in this current arc by bringing in leaders and representatives from each nation at present. The underlying cause of Magnostadt's problems was its former association to Al Sarmen. Isn't that what Aladdin is discussing with everyone else right now? Or did I miss the part where Robb was killed and the head of his wolf placed where his head used to be?



Wesley said:


> That's not responsibility.  That's interference.  No one expected him to do anything and he never promised to act in any way.  He just does whatever he wants.  If there is no obligation and there are no personal consequences, there is no responsibility.



So basically, you'd have preferred it if Aladdin just stood aside and did nothing while the whole clan got wiped off the face of the planet forever?

Srsly Weasley, you're grasping at straws just to discredit Aladdin. If you don't like his character, fine, but it's stupid to make silly justifications and excuses to hate him. Especially when when you clearly haven't even thought about the larger picture.


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## Dark (Feb 27, 2014)

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Aladdin say that King Solomon created the world that they currently live in? He also said every world has its own creator, then in the latest chapter he says that King Solomon was one of the previous world's magicians (and the strongest) and the one who saved Alma Torran. So my point is, King Solomon was created by a different creator and then he himself created another world? I thought creators were supposed to be some godly entities and not created by some other god.


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## Roman (Feb 27, 2014)

Dark said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Aladdin say that King Solomon created the world that they currently live in? He also said every world has its own creator, then in the latest chapter he says that King Solomon was one of the previous world's magicians (and the strongest) and the one who saved Alma Torran. So my point is, King Solomon was created by a different creator and then he himself created another world? I thought creators were supposed to be some godly entities and not created by some other god.



It was always known that Solomon is the creator of the current world, and Ilah created Alma Torran. Nothing was said that someone created in one world can't create another world. Besides, it doesn't appear as if everything about Solomon is yet known.


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## Wesley (Feb 27, 2014)

Freedan said:


> And that isn't indicative of his neutrality to you?



It didn't benefit Reim in any particular way, while it had obvious benefits for Magnostadt.



> Yes, they were responding to its internal policies. And what right does Reim have to do that as an external party? Magnostadt wasn't part of Reim's empire, and so Reim didn't have any right to interfere as it had absolutely no jurisdiction over its internal policies



Because those internal policies were successful and threatened to take over the world.



> What Reim did was a pre-emptive act of war, which even irl is illegal under international law. Don't get me wrong, I don't think what Magnostadt was doing is wrong, but what needed to be done was to hold talks with Magnostadt's leadership in order to gain a common understanding and convince Mogamett that the Goi are not all like how he's grown to view them. Attacking them was not the way to achieve that. Oh wait, Aladdin knew that too and tried to talk it out with Mogamett! How about that shit?



1.) It wasn't preemption, it was retaliation.  Magnostadt was an enemy.

2.) Magnostadt doesn't hold talks with anyone.  There is no reasoning with that country.  They think they're victims, they think they are and know better than anyone else.  It's a mad country beyond reason.

3.) Crushing the country and breaking it's peoples spirits would secure Reim as a nation and the world as a whole.



> And rightly so. He wanted to understand why the magicians were angry with them and wanted to resolve the matter peacefully and avoid conflict.



Aladdin understood just fine why the magicians were angry and those reasons had nothing to do with reality.  They were angry and unhinged, and he agreed with them.



> And he was also right to threaten to thwart any attack by Reim considering Aladdin *cut off Magnostadt's main line of defense when he destroyed line to "the power supply" that was the 5th district*.



Rather the Finalists Corps was about to wreck that thing anyway, so all he ended up doing was saving the people in the 5th level.



> Aladdin basically destroyed Magnostadt's main line of defense and took responsibility for that action by taking on Reim. Beyond that, how is Aladdin in any position to understand Reim's problems? Wait.....what problems are you even talking about? Aladdin took care of that when he *cut off Magnostadt's main line of defense when he destroyed line to "the power supply" that was the 5th district*.



Reim's problems with Magnostadt is that they're an isolationist country with great power that threatens it's neighbors and Reim.  It's also a country that Kou has designs on.  Reim cannot allow Magnostadt to be conquered or allied with Kou.



> Aladdin made no promises because he's not in a political position to do so.  He's not the leader of a nation like Scheherazade, Kouen and Sinbad. Being a Magi doesn't grant him such a position. What it does grant him is the position of adviser toward his chosen king. And who is that king? Alibaba: prince of a kingdom that currently belongs to the Kou empire, meaning he has no political leverage either, as this current arc is demonstrating.



Which is why it was terrible that Reim backed down. The situation was not resolved, Aladdin didn't speak for Magnostadt, nor did he promise to do anything about Reim's reasons for going to war in the first place.  The war happened for a reason and those reasons STILL EXISTED!  That Scherazade would go to war and then stop war without any resolution doesn't speak well of her character at all. 

She was epic and awesome until she ran up against the Sue character that made her pee herself.



> And Reim defending itself? Reim ATTACKED Magnostadt. The war took place on Magnostadt territory. What are you even reading?



Magnostadt attacked Reim and it's neighbors.  This is mentioned numerous times in the lead up to the war.  We don't see any battles that took place, but it's mentioned quite often.



> Again, what are you even reading? They're still trying to resolve that matter in this current arc by bringing in leaders and representatives from each nation at present. The underlying cause of Magnostadt's problems was its former association to Al Sarmen. Isn't that what Aladdin is discussing with everyone else right now? Or did I miss the part where Robb was killed and the head of his wolf placed where his head used to be?



Magnostadt's problems had nothing to do with Al Tharem.



> So basically, you'd have preferred it if Aladdin just stood aside and did nothing while the whole clan got wiped off the face of the planet forever?



If he's going to use his actions from back then to justify his actions in the war, yes, I would have preferred that he let the Kouga tribe be destroyed or that Hakuei be killed.



> Srsly Weasley, you're grasping at straws just to discredit Aladdin. If you don't like his character, fine, but it's stupid to make silly justifications and excuses to hate him. Especially when when you clearly haven't even thought about the larger picture.



I think I'm the only one that understands the big picture.


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## Roman (Feb 27, 2014)

Wesley said:


> It didn't benefit Reim in any particular way, while it had obvious benefits for Magnostadt.



Again, BS. And you know it. Magnostadt would've destroyed Reim's platoons if Aladdin hadn't done that.



Wesley said:


> Because those internal policies were successful and threatened to take over the world.



BS. It was obvious right from the start that it wasn't a sustainable system in the long run, especially when the citizens in the 5th district were hardly well taken care of.



Wesley said:


> 1.) It wasn't preemption, it was retaliation.  Magnostadt was an enemy.
> 
> 2.) Magnostadt doesn't hold talks with anyone.  There is no reasoning with that country.  They think they're victims, they think they are and know better than anyone else.  It's a mad country beyond reason.
> 
> 3.) Crushing the country and breaking it's peoples spirits would secure Reim as a nation and the world as a whole.



1. Retaliation to what? When did Magnostadt attack Reim? 

2. Why do you think Aladdin went there? He went for Sinbad's sake but mainly to learn more about what was happening in Magnostadt. And when he found out what was happening, he knew shit was insane but was in the perfect position to speak to Mogamett as a fellow magician.

3. And lay down more seeds of discontent among its newfound people, seeds of rebellion and civil strife. That's not secure at all and the reason why countless empires in history fell. You do know there's a certain country that exists today because of it? I think it was called United States of America or something along those lines. 



Wesley said:


> Aladdin understood just fine why the magicians were angry and those reasons had nothing to do with reality.  They were angry and unhinged, and he agreed with them.



He agreed with them to the extent that the people of Mustashim abused and mistreated the magicians. But he also saw how Magnostadt himself had become the same sort of monster he hated by mistreating people with lesser power than himself (5th district) and that the Goi of Mustashim were not all like the other Goi from outside (Alibaba, Morgiana, the people of Siindria, the Kouga clan, and so on).



Wesley said:


> Rather the Finalists Corps was about to wreck that thing anyway, so all he ended up doing was saving the people in the 5th level.



Fucking exactly, so tell me how he was serving Magnostadt's interests exclusively?



Wesley said:


> Reim's problems with Magnostadt is that they're an isolationist country with great power that threatens it's neighbors and Reim.  It's also a country that Kou has designs on.  Reim cannot allow Magnostadt to be conquered or allied with Kou.





Wesley said:


> with Magnostadt



What about Reim's problems in general? And Magnostadt was developing in power yes. But like I said, it wasn't sustainable, and Mogamett never directly threatened or instigated other countries. Emphasis on "isolationist" here. By the definition of that very word, they wanted nothing to do with other countries and never made any attempt at world conquest like Reim or Kou have.



Wesley said:


> Which is why it was terrible that Reim backed down. The situation was not resolved, Aladdin didn't speak for Magnostadt, nor did he promise to do anything about Reim's reasons for going to war in the first place.  The war happened for a reason and those reasons STILL EXISTED!  That Scherazade would go to war and then stop war without any resolution doesn't speak well of her character at all.
> 
> She was epic and awesome until she ran up against the Sue character that made her pee herself.



That's your problem, not Scheherazade's. You wanted Magnostadt crushed, Scheherazade and Aladdin both came to agree things ought to be resolved peacefully.



Wesley said:


> Magnostadt attacked Reim and it's neighbors.



WHEN?



Wesley said:


> Magnostadt's problems had nothing to do with Al Tharem.



Black Rukh experiments? Ring any bells?



Wesley said:


> If he's going to use his actions from back then to justify his actions in the war, yes, I would have preferred that he let the Kouga tribe be destroyed or that Hakuei be killed.



Then that's your problem. You don't like the fact that Aladdin wants to do good for others. You wanted him to be a chaotic neutral character who doesn't want to have to do anything with anyone unless it benefits him. Sorry to break your bubble but Aladdin's not the mercenary or Melisandre type character you wanted him to be. And the fact that he succeeds in his intent to do good indiscriminately seems to piss you off too. Guess there's no point taking you seriously anymore at this stage.


----------



## Kellogem (Mar 1, 2014)

dont really want to get into the argument, but didnt Magnostadt sell those magical weapons to pirates, thieves and who knows who else running around threatening the "goi" in other countries?

I can understand why Reim (or anyone affected) getting pissed at Magnostadt after finding out they are supporting bandits with weapons.. its like Magnostadt was shitting on other countries, taking profit and using it to gain power.

trading weapons with anyone who wants them, they were like allies of anyone wanting to break havoc in goi territory as long as it doesnt concern them while they admittedly were developing their own weapons of mass destruction.

edit: I too think Aladdins way of dealing with the situation was convenient and not well thought-out... he stopped the war, awesome, but he had no idea what to do with the situation in mangostadt regarding the suppressed goi (at least didnt share with anyone) and couldnt ensure kou woulndt invade Mangoshtadt which would threaten reim, also even if that wouldnt happen, he had no way of stopping Mogamet from producing weapons and selling them to Reims enemies...


----------



## Dark (Mar 1, 2014)

Freedan said:


> It was always known that Solomon is the creator of the current world, and Ilah created Alma Torran. Nothing was said that someone created in one world can't create another world. Besides, it doesn't appear as if everything about Solomon is yet known.



My point is, it was stated that every world has a creator, now since we learned Solomon was created by another being, the previous statement doesn't make much sense anymore. For all we know, Ilah might have also been created by some other creator.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Mar 1, 2014)

I am still amazed that Magi yet to have a Sub section in this forum. I just saw that Kill La Kill has one for the anime side. What an injustice.


----------



## Aldric (Mar 2, 2014)

man I have more and more trouble recognizing who's who in this manga

everyone looks too similar

so basically that girl with small horns (very subtle) will be the one at the origin of the disaster uh

she's probably one of the magis of alma toran too

we haven't seen gyokuen yet, right?


----------



## Catalyst75 (Mar 2, 2014)

Link removed

Solomon, is that you?  You look a lot like Alladin.

I also have the feeling the girl is Gyokuen.


----------



## belkrax (Mar 2, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> Link removed
> 
> Solomon, is that you?  You look a lot like Alladin.
> 
> I also have the feeling the girl is Gyokuen.



I have the same feeling too. Maybe its the soulless eyes.

Anyways i do feel the author is going to play a romance between Gyokuen and Solomon. Some character development that will get totally screwed when something bad happens and some of the magicians will start to think like this little girl..

Young Ithnan was HAHAHAHA.


----------



## Wesley (Mar 2, 2014)

Malvingt2 said:


> I am still amazed that Magi yet to have a Sub section in this forum. I just saw that Kill La Kill has one for the anime side. What an injustice.



It won't get one because there isn't enough Tits and Ass.


----------



## Stilzkin (Mar 2, 2014)

Hating the character designs in the newest chapter. 

Why do some of the characters have modern looking glasses? That's so out of place.


----------



## Black Knight (Mar 2, 2014)

Stilzkin said:


> Hating the character designs in the newest chapter.
> 
> Why do some of the characters have modern looking glasses? That's so out of place.



Because creative licenses.


----------



## Wesley (Mar 2, 2014)

Stilzkin said:


> Hating the character designs in the newest chapter.
> 
> Why do some of the characters have modern looking glasses? That's so out of place.



Alma Toran was a more advanced world?


----------



## Malvingt2 (Mar 2, 2014)

Wesley said:


> It won't get one because there isn't enough Tits and Ass.



wow. You did open my eyes. You are speaking the true.


----------



## Wesley (Mar 3, 2014)

Malvingt2 said:


> wow. You did open my eyes. You are speaking the true.



Add the fact that there aren't fights every week (a lot of the discussion generated from shonen is about the fights and who wins them) and that there just isn't anything to really complain about Magi.  Most discussion is how something is awful or stupid it is.  I swear, most people in the Fairy Tail section keep reading just to complain about it each week.

As for Kill La Kill, that series is probably riding on TTGL's coat tails, which back in the day generated over 50000 posts before the series was even over.  And most of it was just people being stupid and about how silly or "gar" the series was.

I like to that Magi is a very respectable manga and if it'd been around 7 or 8 years ago, it would have it's own sub section like Full Metal Alchemist did, but at least as far as this forum is concerned, people are probably just content to read the manga without actually saying much about it.


----------



## Kellogem (Mar 3, 2014)

They should totally make a Magi fighting game..lot of characters to work with, transformation for characters with djinn equip, extreme magic as the super special...etc.

I'd play as Dunya and Gyokuen if she would be playable, also maybe morgiana and hakuryuu.


----------



## rajin (Mar 3, 2014)

*Magi - Labyrinth of Magic 216 Japanese Raw*

*Yuzuki Fantasy chapter*


----------



## Malvingt2 (Mar 3, 2014)

*Magi 216*

Yuzuki Fantasy chapter


----------



## Imagine (Mar 3, 2014)

Ugo sporting those I go to Starbucks on the daily glasses.

And Solomon at the end.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Mar 3, 2014)

I really like Solomon design... and yeah Solomon at the end. lol


----------



## Kuromaku (Mar 3, 2014)

The details of the conflict over the Rukh are starting to make a lot more sense now that we're seeing the divisions among humans over how to treat other species and religious dogma.


----------



## Cflip12 (Mar 3, 2014)

Lol @ Solomon at the end, brutal honesty at its finest.

So...


*Spoiler*: __ 



Sheba = Gyokuen? She is more warped than she was before


----------



## Wesley (Mar 3, 2014)

When does the Digimon Emperor show up?


----------



## ~Avant~ (Mar 3, 2014)

Pretty sure the beasts are going to end up being the Fanalis.


----------



## Fourangers (Mar 3, 2014)

~Avant~ said:


> Pretty sure the beasts are going to end up being the Fanalis.



Oh! I haven't thought about that but that's a good theory. 

LOL Solomon, I'm glad he is so brutally honest.


----------



## Blunt (Mar 3, 2014)

Don't like Solomon's Aladdin face. Looks ridiculous.


----------



## Brian (Mar 3, 2014)

I was expecting some Sinbad pimped out look from him 

I'm glad his story will be fleshed out at least.


----------



## Princess Ivy (Mar 3, 2014)

It seemed we have gotten a flashback from another flashback. We've had this cliffhanger mysteries at the end of every chapters. I think we'll be having this story as a mini arc for quite some time and just have to get familiar with the characters. As of now, nothing seemed to be giving me excitement and trill, I guess we'll go to that part later on.

By the way, I'm a bit confused. Last chapters we had the humans suffering due to their inferiority to all creatures in that world until Solomon the ruler saved and gave them the power of magic. Now we have the time of Solomon still young and already possessing magic along with several humans. Soo, if humans possess magic in the first place, why would he would have to give them in the future?


----------



## Deleted member 234422 (Mar 3, 2014)

Princess Ivy said:


> It seemed we have gotten a flashback from another flashback. We've had this cliffhanger mysteries at the end of every chapters. I think we'll be having this story as a mini arc for quite some time and just have to get familiar with the characters. As of now, nothing seemed to be giving me excitement and trill, I guess we'll go to that part later on.
> 
> By the way, I'm a bit confused. Last chapters we had the humans suffering due to their inferiority to all creatures in that world until Solomon the ruler saved and gave them the power of magic. Now we have the time of Solomon still young and already possessing magic along with several humans. Soo, if humans possess magic in the first place, why would he would have to give them in the future?



No, a creator before Solomon gave humans the power of magic. Solomon created the current world. The Solomon you see is after the introduction of magic.


----------



## Stilzkin (Mar 3, 2014)

> By the way, I'm a bit confused. Last chapters we had the humans suffering due to their inferiority to all creatures in that world until Solomon the ruler saved and gave them the power of magic. Now we have the time of Solomon still young and already possessing magic along with several humans. Soo, if humans possess magic in the first place, why would he would have to give them in the future?



Ill Ilah created Alma Torran and gave the humans magic to survive. Hundreds of years later (or how ever long) magicians have enslaved all the other races. Solomon is the leader of a rebel group who is opposed to this treatment of the other races.

Whats confusing is that what attacked Magnostadt was called Ill Irah. Which seeing as the translators keep changing the spelling on stuff, I'm guessing is Ill Ilah. So what destroyed Alma Torran seems to have been Al Thamen using the power of Ill Ilah.


----------



## tupadre97 (Mar 3, 2014)

Stilzkin said:


> Hating the character designs in the newest chapter.
> 
> Why do some of the characters have modern looking glasses? That's so out of place.



Yeah ikr wtf is that about? Why is ugo wearing hipster glasses and a scarf lolol. The other guy with the glasses saying shit isnt cool is annoying too. Saying shit isnt cool all the time isnt cool bro.

Idk what it is about these authors,mixing in shit from different eras but its just.weird


Imagine said:


> Ugo sporting those I go to Starbucks on the daily glasses.
> 
> And Solomon at the end.


Yeah soloman looks like hes gonna be a boss.


----------



## Roman (Mar 4, 2014)

So am I actually the only one here who kinda liked the character models? I don't see the problem of mixing in different eras in one setting when Alma Toran is supposed to be a completely different world to begin with. That would mean the eras as we know them wouldn't even exist there as they may easily have gone through a completely different history.


----------



## Wesley (Mar 4, 2014)

Freedan said:


> So am I actually the only one here who kinda liked the character models? I don't see the problem of mixing in different eras in one setting when Alma Toran is supposed to be a completely different world to begin with. That would mean the eras as we know them wouldn't even exist there as they may easily have gone through a completely different history.



I'm not sure what other people could have expected.  More of the same?  That would just make the characters forgettable in the long run, since they won't ever make an appearance outside of this mini-arc.


----------



## eluna (Mar 4, 2014)

Was nice see Solomon don't be ashamed to tell the truth on the face the Sheba face was priceless


----------



## Stilzkin (Mar 4, 2014)

Freedan said:


> So am I actually the only one here who kinda liked the character models? I don't see the problem of mixing in different eras in one setting when Alma Toran is supposed to be a completely different world to begin with. That would mean the eras as we know them wouldn't even exist there as they may easily have gone through a completely different history.



There is still a style to the art and designs. Thick, rectangular glasses and a scarf don't fit with everything else going on.


----------



## Wesley (Mar 10, 2014)

Who the heck is Gyokuen?


----------



## Deleted member 234422 (Mar 10, 2014)

Can we please get this over with? This goddamn backstory is so boring and dragged.


----------



## Grumpy Zoro (Mar 10, 2014)

I'm sorry but Solomon's design is just creepy to me

Alladin on steroids. And he's still so little...it just doesn't look good. Should've made him a little older or something.

I didn't even recognize Ugo. Those glasses just don't fit.


----------



## Roman (Mar 10, 2014)

Stilzkin said:


> There is still a style to the art and designs. Thick, rectangular glasses and a scarf don't fit with everything else going on.



Yes, it doesn't fit with everything else based on our own perception of what fits in our historical eras. But right now we're seeing a story from a completely different dimension where animals have intelligence and a developed civilization. It's not impossible for technology to have developed differently in various areas compared to what we know. 

Yes, glasses don't fit in a era during the roman empire as we know it, for instance, but think of it like this: you have a series like Naruto whose setting is loosely based on feudal Japan. Yet video cassettes exist (and by extension TVs), sunglasses exist, artificial lighting exists, radio and long distance communication methods exist, the style of clothing for Chuunin Shinobi and above resembles combat gear worn by special forces today much more than what traditional ninjas of the times wore, and the list goes on.

Similarly, you have a series like Avatar: TLA which is based on various cultures in a setting that existed long before the industrial revolution.....and you have tanks, gunships, metal battleships, and at some point we even saw a giant mechanical drill that would be an incredible technological feat even in real life during our time.

By the same streak, the current dimension of Magi has a setting that resembles actual historical eras in real life. The same doesn't have to apply for Alma Torran because it's a completely different dimension. The only connection is that the characters are descended in some way from people of those dimensions. I can get why you wouldn't like it due to a sense of personal tastes, but that doesn't mean it must be impossible. So if all of those things I mentioned above is possible, glasses really isn't such a big deal. There are characters with glasses even in the current dimension in Magi anyways.


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Mar 10, 2014)

Well this chapter just added to the Solomon/Aladin parallels. 
The scene with Solomon reading books felt exactly like the time Aladin was shown studying in the palace with Ugo. Which we now know, that he should have been a great teacher with his genius level intellect. Its a pity he didn't teach him any magic though.


----------



## Bill from Accounting (Mar 10, 2014)

Kinda confused at the criticism for this flashback, i'm loving it it so far


----------



## Stilzkin (Mar 10, 2014)

> Yes, it doesn't fit with everything else based on our own perception of what fits in our historical eras. But right now we're seeing a story from a completely different dimension where animals have intelligence and a developed civilization. It's not impossible for technology to have developed differently in various areas compared to what we know.



Like I keep trying to say that doesn't change the fact that it doesn't fit. If she had wanted to the characters to have a drastically different style in the other world that would have been fine. If she wanted a mix of modern and ancient styles that would have been fine.

That isn't exactly what we see. We see Uvo have a hipster style which really doesn't go with fit in with any other design other than that one other guy who has modern glasses as well. Even then Uvo stands out awkwardly.

Anachronisms can work, they can even make sense. A lot of series actually do them all the time. This one just stands out as a lazy design.


----------



## Roman (Mar 10, 2014)

Stilzkin said:


> Like I keep trying to say that doesn't change the fact that it doesn't fit. If she had wanted to the characters to have a drastically different style in the other world that would have been fine. If she wanted a mix of modern and ancient styles that would have been fine.
> 
> That isn't exactly what we see. We see Uvo have a hipster style which really doesn't go with fit in with any other design other than that one other guy who has modern glasses as well. Even then Uvo stands out awkwardly.
> 
> Anachronisms can work, they can even make sense. A lot of series actually do them all the time. This one just stands out as a lazy design.



How do you know that's not what Ohtaka wanted or that that's not exactly what the rest of us see? From what I can tell, you're the only one who feels that it doesn't fit on the grounds of it somehow not fitting with the standards of the historical eras as we know them. Alma Torran doesn't have to be drastically different for minor differences like those to be allowed to exist. Just as the world of Naruto isn't too far removed from feudal Japan yet minor things like TVs and cassettes exist. Hipster glasses is literally a small thing to be worried about in the grand scheme of things anyways. If you're disappointed that Ugo didn't look more like his Djinn form, maybe we should be focusing on how his skin isn't blue rather than his glasses?


----------



## yo586 (Mar 10, 2014)

I enjoy this flashback. Wish this was her spin off tale rather than Sinbad.


----------



## Grumpy Zoro (Mar 10, 2014)

Freedan said:


> How do you know that's not what Ohtaka wanted or that that's not exactly what the rest of us see? From what I can tell, you're the only one who feels that it doesn't fit on the grounds of it somehow not fitting with the standards of the historical eras as we know them. Alma Torran doesn't have to be drastically different for minor differences like those to be allowed to exist. Just as the world of Naruto isn't too far removed from feudal Japan yet minor things like TVs and cassettes exist. Hipster glasses is literally a small thing to be worried about in the grand scheme of things anyways. If you're disappointed that Ugo didn't look more like his Djinn form, maybe we should be focusing on how his skin isn't blue rather than his glasses?



He's not the only one. It's a shitty design. But all in all it's not really a big deal...at least for me.


----------



## Stilzkin (Mar 10, 2014)

Freedan said:


> How do you know that's not what Ohtaka wanted or that that's not exactly what the rest of us see?



She wanted an ill fitting, bad design?



> From what I can tell, you're the only one who feels that it doesn't fit on the grounds of it somehow not fitting with the standards of the historical eras as we know them.



You're not even bothering to read my posts are you?

It's not about historical accuracy.

From my previous post:



> If she had wanted to the characters to have a drastically different style in the other world that would have been fine. If she wanted a mix of modern and ancient styles that would have been fine.



The design just doesn't work. It doesn't fit in with all the other designs in this arc/sub-arc.

Did she mean to make him stand out? Maybe, doesn't change the fact that it looks awkward. Due to it being a generic, modern look I'm thinking there was some laziness involved.


----------



## tupadre97 (Mar 10, 2014)

Stilzkin said:


> Ill Ilah created Alma Torran and gave the humans magic to survive. Hundreds of years later (or how ever long) magicians have enslaved all the other races. Solomon is the leader of a rebel group who is opposed to this treatment of the other races.
> 
> Whats confusing is that what attacked Magnostadt was called Ill Irah. Which seeing as the translators keep changing the spelling on stuff, I'm guessing is Ill Ilah. So what destroyed Alma Torran seems to have been Al Thamen using the power of Ill Ilah.



I'm starting to think that Ill Ilah is the black god that destroyed alma toran. Al thamen and gyokuen must have found some way to manipulate or corrupt it with black rukh or something. It also supports the theory that sheba is gyokuen and that shes been worshipping the same god all along.

Actually after reading the latest chapter my theory that they are the same looks even more true. Sheba called Ill Ilah "our father" which is the same thing her and al thamen called the black god in magnostatt. Also Ill Ilah is a douche when you think about it. He created alma toran and all the species but for some reason gives humans magic and staves that take away the ability of thought from all the other sentient species for the sake of "world peace". All of that sounds really bullshit to me. I wonder what Ill Ilah really is and wth its thinking.


----------



## Xin (Mar 11, 2014)

Catched up with the latest three chapters. 

It's finally getting interesting again. 

My new fav: Ugo the Magic Otaku Hipster 

And Solomon telling her she's a bitch. 

Priceless.

Also: I'm 90% sure Solomon is Aladdin (10% Alibaba).


----------



## Butcher (Mar 11, 2014)

I see Solomon becoming a favorite of mine the future. 

The newest chapter was sweet too <3.


----------



## Wesley (Mar 11, 2014)

Solomon is dead.


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Mar 11, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Solomon is dead.



He created a universe
Death _might_ not be a problem


----------



## Butcher (Mar 11, 2014)

Where mah Ren Gyouken at ?


----------



## Xin (Mar 11, 2014)

Solomon is Aladdin.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Mar 12, 2014)

[YOUTUBE]sozozk07Vag[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## eluna (Mar 12, 2014)

Funny chapter,I'm like Solomon each more and was cute the interaction between Sheba and the big cat,finally that bitch is get in real


----------



## rajin (Mar 17, 2014)

*Magi - Labyrinth of Magic 218 Raw : 2 double pages joined.*

*Chapter.28 ENG*


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Mar 17, 2014)

The chapters have been great.
Though i find it funny that during such an important backstory, most of the discussion involved their clothes and accessories. 
Have most of the posters here been feminized or is there a huge concentration of girl readers here?


----------



## Wesley (Mar 17, 2014)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> The chapters have been great.
> Though i find it funny that during such an important backstory, most of the discussion involved their clothes and accessories.
> Have most of the posters here been feminized or is there a huge concentration of girl readers here?



There hasn't been much to go on as far as what happened back then and how it relates to the present day.  Frankly, it's hard to imagine just why Al Tharem formed in the first place.  Where is the divide?  What did Solomon do or what happened that caused people to want to destroy the world?

We really have no understanding of Al Tharem's motivations, aside from spite maybe.


----------



## Stilzkin (Mar 17, 2014)

> Frankly, it's hard to imagine just why Al Tharem formed in the first place. Where is the divide?



It seems to be that they have a differing opinion on what Ill Ilah intended.

The story could still go a lot of different ways though.


----------



## Wesley (Mar 18, 2014)

Stilzkin said:


> It seems to be that they have a differing opinion on what Ill Ilah intended.
> 
> The story could still go a lot of different ways though.



But Al Tharem are on Solomon's side?


----------



## Malvingt2 (Mar 18, 2014)

*218:* 1


----------



## ensoriki (Mar 18, 2014)

Wesley said:


> There hasn't been much to go on as far as what happened back then and how it relates to the present day.  Frankly, it's hard to imagine just why Al Tharem formed in the first place.  Where is the divide?  What did Solomon do or what happened that caused people to want to destroy the world?
> 
> We really have no understanding of Al Tharem's motivations, aside from spite maybe.



Seems more that Al thamen predated Solomon and he put them into the background when he took over.
Looking at this chapter the rulers look exactly like al thamen generics.
The divide is coexistence vs dominance one would think at least to start.
Though we know Al thamen denies the rukh fate and they probably did not at first.
Something here probably makes them hate the rukh flow and go from ass hat oppressors to depraved ones.


----------



## Roman (Mar 18, 2014)

Nice chapter, especially with getting more insight into the Djinns' origins and why they were important even in Alma Torran.


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Mar 18, 2014)

Regarding Al thamens hate for the rukh flow.

That rukh was guided by Solomon, so maybe they see it as heretical. Perhaps they think that making it fall into depravity fries the rukh from Solomon and returns it to their real god?


----------



## Stilzkin (Mar 18, 2014)

Wesley said:


> But Al Tharem are on Solomon's side?



No, the divide appears to have happened between members of Solomon's group.

I'm guessing it all boils down to a disagreement on what Ill Ilah intends or what he is. This would occur after Solomon won the battle and united his world though.



ensoriki said:


> Seems more that Al thamen predated Solomon and he put them into the background when he took over.



I think Al Thamen has some origins with the enslaving group but I think they are two different entities. I doubt Gyokuen went back to her old religion especially after it was revealed that they were all once religious fanatics.



ClandestineSchemer said:


> That rukh was guided by Solomon, so maybe they see it as heretical. Perhaps they think that making it fall into depravity fries the rukh from Solomon and returns it to their real god?



I think that's a good theory.


----------



## eluna (Mar 19, 2014)

It was a pretty shocking the lecture of Solomon give to Sheba but was kinda necessary to her,but I feel kinda bad for Momo.Next chapter promise


----------



## Wesley (Mar 19, 2014)

eluna said:


> It was a pretty shocking the lecture of Solomon give to Sheba but was kinda necessary to her,but I feel kinda bad for Momo.Next chapter promise



Half of that lecture was to himself.  He knows exactly what she's going through.  He's just putting it into words.


----------



## Dark (Mar 19, 2014)

Enjoyed the chapter, liked the part in which Solomon revealed his past.


----------



## ensoriki (Mar 19, 2014)

Stilzkin said:


> I think Al Thamen has some origins with the enslaving group but I think they are two different entities. I doubt Gyokuen went back to her old religion especially after it was revealed that they were all once religious fanatics.


The thing is though look at Gyokuen even now? She cried because her "father"s potential appearance made her happy. She's not all there.


----------



## B Rabbit (Mar 20, 2014)

So I'm at volume 15 Alibaba vs Garda is the best fight in the series.

Pretty much because Alibaba is the best in the series.


----------



## ensoriki (Mar 20, 2014)

B Rabbit said:


> Pretty much because Alibaba is the best in the series.



This doesn't change.


----------



## B Rabbit (Mar 20, 2014)

Good. Cause he's much better than Alladin.


----------



## B Rabbit (Mar 20, 2014)

So finished volume 16. Love the magic school.

I'm having a hard time seeing the Kou empire or the  Magnashoun (butchered the name I know) as enemies, I know have evil characteristics, but I think ot just comes down to different ideologies, politics etc. Really Al Sarmen is the root.


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Mar 20, 2014)

That is the good thing about this manga. No faction is completely rotten and have their own valid points in consideration to their point of view.

The only exception is Al Thamen, who want to kill every living thing on the planet. But serve as a good foil to Aladin, who is saintly.

That trait is of putting for many, but makes sense considering he is a literal Messiah sent by God


----------



## B Rabbit (Mar 20, 2014)

Sorry for misspelling nmes. It'll take me sometime to spell them write.


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Mar 20, 2014)

B Rabbit said:


> Sorry for misspelling nmes. It'll take me sometime to spell them write.



No problem.
 Most names here are easy for me, since 1001 Arabian nights were read as a bed time story for me, so I know most of them by heart.

Now, Korean names. That's a mission impossible scenario for me


----------



## B Rabbit (Mar 21, 2014)

Chapter 204, Alibaba you dumbass


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Mar 22, 2014)

219 Raw

**


----------



## Catalyst75 (Mar 22, 2014)

Yo, Solomon was crazy.

It's freakin' over!  We saw the damn planet!  Now we know why Solomon was the strongest magician of all!


----------



## Drakor (Mar 24, 2014)

I guess this explains why we see them leave the planet when entering dungeons. Solomon probably connected them to parts of the original Alma Toran world and people are navigated via an advanced form of this spatial magic. 

Though this only makes me think a majority of the non humanoid Djinn were once some of those sentient beings who made a pact with Solomon when he united their world...especially after seeing Valefor in that Sinbad offshoot


----------



## Xin (Mar 24, 2014)

Loved that magic. 

Hope Aladdin will be able to use it some day.


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Mar 24, 2014)

That Solomon.
Sheba: He is like a god!


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Mar 24, 2014)

He puts the SOLO in Solomon.


----------



## Delsin (Mar 24, 2014)

Solomon solos. True story.


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Mar 24, 2014)

Delsin said:


> Solomon solos. True story.


----------



## Delsin (Mar 24, 2014)




----------



## Malvingt2 (Mar 24, 2014)

Son vs Father...


----------



## Butcher (Mar 24, 2014)

Solomon just solos .


----------



## Malvingt2 (Mar 25, 2014)

[YOUTUBE]aq48nVHYEhI[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Dark (Mar 25, 2014)

Well, things got a lot more clear after this chapter. So Gyokuen was trying to bring David into this world? 

Also, I am confused, in this chapter it clearly shows that Gyokuen is on Solomon's father side, why would Solomon accept her as one of his Magis (even if that was later on)? Solomon strikes me as the cunning cautious guy so..


----------



## Dellinger (Mar 25, 2014)

I'm pretty sure that Sheba is Gyokuen.


----------



## Dark (Mar 25, 2014)

Isn't the one who is standing along with David Gyokuen? 
the rule


----------



## Ukoku (Mar 25, 2014)

That's Solomon as a child.


----------



## Wesley (Mar 28, 2014)

Solomon is steal weaker than Djinn Equipped people.


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Mar 28, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Solomon is steal weaker than Djinn Equipped people.


----------



## MrCinos (Mar 29, 2014)

Chapter 220. Nice translation.


----------



## Xin (Mar 29, 2014)

MrCinos said:


> Chapter 220. Nice translation.



What the fuck did I just read.


----------



## Imagine (Mar 29, 2014)

I feel trolled.


----------



## Xin (Mar 29, 2014)

"Do he got the booty?" "He do". 

Truly a maginificent end.


----------



## Furkhit Singh (Mar 29, 2014)

Omg there's a thread for this.

I loved the latest chapter.


----------



## Patrick (Mar 29, 2014)

I'm not an expert on japanese translations, but I have a feeling this one might contain a few errors.


----------



## Magician (Mar 29, 2014)

I felt like I was on an LSD adventure.


----------



## Yuki (Mar 29, 2014)

I think this was an April fools. xD


----------



## Roman (Mar 29, 2014)

Best. Chapter. Ever. Bar NONE.


----------



## BenI (Mar 29, 2014)

chapter 220 was weird but awesome!


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Mar 29, 2014)

oh frickle frack this was hilarious


----------



## MightiestRooster (Mar 29, 2014)

Mustache Solomon is the most powerful entity in manga universe.


----------



## The End (Mar 29, 2014)

I understood 220 more than 219


----------



## Deleted member 73050 (Mar 29, 2014)

I can't believe that the Solomon flashback would bore me to sleep.


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Mar 29, 2014)

Iit seemed like a joke release, so I stopped reading to prevent spoiling myself for the true release.
Will read the joke release after the real one, though.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Mar 29, 2014)

Wow the trolling is just


----------



## yo586 (Mar 29, 2014)

The End said:


> I understood 220 more than 219



Haha! I felt the exact same way.


----------



## Wesley (Mar 29, 2014)

I don't think my brain could handle reading the troll release.


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Mar 29, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Solomon is steal weaker than Djinn Equipped people.



Solomon power is not focused on explosions and biggatons 

Also
This release


----------



## Wesley (Mar 29, 2014)

Louis Cyphre said:


> Solomon power is not focused on explosions and biggatons



Neither was Koumei's and he performed much better feats.


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Mar 29, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Neither was Koumei's and he performed much better feats.


I missed the chapter where Koumei created a alternative reality 
Granted
This arc is still on the beginning and Solomon is still young.


----------



## Wesley (Mar 29, 2014)

Louis Cyphre said:


> I missed the chapter where Koumei created a alternative reality
> Granted
> This arc is still on the beginning and Solomon is still young.



Alternate reality?  When did that happen?


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Mar 29, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Alternate reality?  When did that happen?


Are you serious...

I mean
This was explained six chapters ago


----------



## Wesley (Mar 29, 2014)

Oh, that.  That was rather vague don't you think?  You shouldn't take things literally, especially when no context is actually given.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Mar 29, 2014)

Just going by the raws, it seems that Scar was mortified that 'non-Humans' had Divine Staves in their possession.


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Mar 29, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Oh, that.  That was rather vague don't you think?
> You shouldn't take things literally, especially when no context is actually given.



*Spoiler*: __ 










Context...


----------



## Wesley (Mar 29, 2014)

Context like actually seeing how he created the world.  Aladdin is practically telling a Fairy Tale as is.


----------



## Stannis (Mar 29, 2014)

epic chapter


----------



## Wesley (Mar 30, 2014)

Why is it so much more painful waiting for new chapters on Mondays as opposed to mid week or weekends?


----------



## Stilzkin (Mar 30, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Oh, that.  That was rather vague don't you think?  You shouldn't take things literally, especially when no context is actually given.



"He made it so that things would fall down to the bottom...He controls all of the ruhk."

How is that vague?

I would agree if he had stopped at just "creator" or simply called him the "god" of their world but he is clearly stating that Solomon set up their world.



> Context like actually seeing how he created the world. Aladdin is practically telling a Fairy Tale as is.



What Fairy tales do you read that are this detailed? Aladdin isn't just telling some unspecific story about how Solomon came and freed the beasts from the misguided religion, he is showing them the past interactions of the people who came to free the beasts and built Solomon's kingdom.

We currently have no reason to believe that Aladdin is mistaken and this is all just a fictional story.


----------



## Wesley (Mar 30, 2014)

Stilzkin said:


> What Fairy tales do you read that are this detailed? Aladdin isn't just telling some unspecific story about how Solomon came and freed the beasts from the misguided religion, he is showing them the past interactions of the people who came to free the beasts and built Solomon's kingdom.
> 
> We currently have no reason to believe that Aladdin is mistaken and this is all just a fictional story.



The introduction was like a fairy tale.  And we do have reason to be skeptical of Aladdin's claim being taken literally.  If Solomon used some magic spell and stole the Rukh from Alma Toran or used Alma Toran's advanced magic to do god-like things, he's not exactly a god is he?

Certainly, it holds true that Solomon's escapades in the last chapter do not hold a candle to Djinn-Equip.  Basically, all Solomon did was demonstrate power type magic, which Ugo apparently invented.


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Mar 30, 2014)

> The introduction was like a fairy tale


Creation Myth.


> And we do have reason to be skeptical of Aladdin's claim being taken literally


Because you said so? Aladdin is one of the most reliable information sources in the entire manga.


> Certainly, it holds true that Solomon's escapades in the last chapter do not hold a candle to Djinn-Equip


One finger lift, djinn equip is suddenly floating in space
Another finger movement, and the djinn equip is falling towards the planet at hypersonic speeds.
Besides
Solomon can redirect magic via space manipulation (apparently).
Keep parroting 



> Basically, all Solomon did was demonstrate power type magic, which Ugo apparently invented.


......

_How do you function?_


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Mar 30, 2014)

this Ichigo should be stronger than his SS counterpart
Proper chapter release is out BTW


----------



## Stilzkin (Mar 31, 2014)

Wesley said:


> The introduction was like a fairy tale.



Why would that matter? He goes on to tell Solomon's story. Aladdin knows Solomon's life and he is telling us that he created their world.



> And we do have reason to be skeptical of Aladdin's claim being taken literally.  If Solomon used some magic spell and stole the Rukh from Alma Toran or used Alma Toran's advanced magic to do god-like things, he's not exactly a god is he?
> 
> Certainly, it holds true that Solomon's escapades in the last chapter do not hold a candle to Djinn-Equip.  Basically, all Solomon did was demonstrate power type magic, which Ugo apparently invented.



Depends, he doesn't have to be the most supreme being to be considered a god. We know he is greater than Ugo, and probably all the other djinn, and we know he created their world.


----------



## Kuromaku (Mar 31, 2014)

We're seeing the rise of Solomon. But at some point, things will have to go wrong. This flashback might take up an entire volume judging by the pacing so far.


----------



## Deleted member 73050 (Mar 31, 2014)

Are they still on Namek?


----------



## Stilzkin (Mar 31, 2014)

> But at some point, things will have to go wrong.



Probably when Al Thamen is created.


----------



## Wesley (Mar 31, 2014)

Louis Cyphre said:


> Creation Myth.



Yes.



> Because you said so? Aladdin is one of the most reliable information sources in the entire manga.



Just because he says something doesn't mean he should be taken literally.



> One finger lift, djinn equip is suddenly floating in space
> Another finger movement, and the djinn equip is falling towards the planet at hypersonic speeds.
> Besides
> Solomon can redirect magic via space manipulation (apparently).
> Keep parroting



And what he did absolutely paled in comparison to what Koumei did.  Koumei teleported an entire mountain.  He created dozens of holes in space with pin-point accuracy and timing.  He teleported his family members from one side of the planet to the other.

All Solomon did was toss around a couple of airships and become tired afterward.

That is an extreme difference in power, scale, and complexity.

Maybe the kid will get more powerful, but considering Magi's rules regarding the human body and magoi pools, probably not.  Not unless he sacrifices his humanity and then he would just be a djinn.



> ......
> 
> _How do you function?_



Spatial manipulation is power magic.  The way they talk about it, spatial manipulation was just a theory of Ugo's until Solomon proved it.  Hence, he invented it.  Power magic that is.  I don't understand your complaint regarding this.


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Mar 31, 2014)

> Just because he says something doesn't mean he should be taken literally.


Again
_Because you said so? _


> Koumei teleported an entire mountain


By burning all his magoi and became extremely tired afterwards, to the point Aladdin was carrying him.


> He created dozens of holes in space with pin-point accuracy


Oh no, he created a bunch of portals...the horror. 


> He teleported his family members from one side of the planet to the other


When he did that?


> All Solomon did was toss around a couple of airships and become tired afterward


“Thrown them to space at hypersonic velocities” is more accurate.  
He did not become tired, are we in the point of debate where you will make shit up?

Koumei is one of few djinn equips that is not based on pure raw power...
Nice thing you are using him as the base of your argument BTW
Must be a coincidence 



> Spatial manipulation is power magic.


All supernatural effects in this universe are _magic_
Solomon_ is a magician_
_What the hell_ are you expecting him to use?



> spatial manipulation was just a theory of Ugo's until Solomon proved it. Hence, he invented it.


Ugo theory is not about spatial manipulation...


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Mar 31, 2014)

I cant believe you guys are actually arguing, if Solomons feat is less impressive than koumei's, smh
Teleporting mountains<<<<<<<<<<<<bending the fabric of reality.
Seriously, Solomon annihilates him. 

Also Alladin is using Solomons wisdom to tell this story.
Are you going to tell me Solomon doesn't know how his own power works or what he did in his life?


----------



## Xin (Mar 31, 2014)

I never considered koumei's feat all that great. 

Solomon was like a god.


----------



## Wesley (Mar 31, 2014)

Right, I'm forgetting that all of you fail to realize that Alibaba is one of the most powerful characters in the present-day.


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Mar 31, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Right, I'm forgetting that all of you fail to realize that Alibaba is one of the most powerful characters in the present-day.



. . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . .  . . . . . . .


----------



## The-Ice (Mar 31, 2014)

i'm quite enjoying this flashback


----------



## Butcher (Mar 31, 2014)

Solomon just keep moving up the ranks every week.


----------



## Wesley (Apr 2, 2014)

So I'm going to fire a shot in the dark here and think that maybe Solomon wanted humans to breed with the other species and his human buddies didn't agree with that.  Meaning that Al-Tharem don't ship Alibaba and Morgiana!


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Apr 2, 2014)

Wesley said:


> So I'm going to fire a shot in the dark here and think that maybe *Solomon wanted humans to breed with the other species *and his human buddies didn't agree with that.  Meaning that Al-Tharem don't ship Alibaba and Morgiana!






I just don't know how to react to your posts.


----------



## Wesley (Apr 3, 2014)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> I just don't know how to react to your posts.



In the flashback, we see all of the species human-sized if not outright human.  We know Fanalis are not human, that there is something turning them into humans on the right side of the rift.  Fanalis and humans on the right side can have children together.

And Solomon just now said that the thing that unites everyone is love.  

Solomon is clearly a goddamn furry.


----------



## Drakor (Apr 3, 2014)

Wesley said:


> In the flashback, we see all of the species human-sized if not outright human.  We know Fanalis are not human, that there is something turning them into humans on the right side of the rift.  Fanalis and humans on the right side can have children together.
> 
> And Solomon just now said that the thing that unites everyone is love.
> 
> Solomon is clearly a goddamn furry.




The fact that people who are household vessels appear to become a human hybrid of whatever race the Djinn they borrow power from makes this theory more valid and hilarious. Agares is confirmed a Manticore, and Kokuton Shuu has essentially made his full transition into a Manticore-Human. The same can be said about Seishuu Ri, as he has assimilated to the Gorgon Djinn named Astaroth.

Hell, Drakon has kids and he's pretty much a dragon or whaveter Baal is now. Along with the fact of Fanalis and Mu Alexius's existance as a halfy...


----------



## Catalyst75 (Apr 4, 2014)

Link removed

I wonder if this is where all the dissension begins with Solomon and his comrades.


----------



## Wesley (Apr 4, 2014)

Too bad kings aren't elected.  I would have voted for Sheba.


----------



## Wesley (Apr 5, 2014)

Flashback is great and all, but I'm seriously having a crisis of faith whether or not the author can even write a story for Morgiana and Alibaba anymore.


----------



## ~Howling~ (Apr 5, 2014)

That's kinda what she was doing before the flashback and all.


----------



## Wesley (Apr 5, 2014)

~Howling~ said:


> That's kinda what she was doing before the flashback and all.



From what we saw, it wasn't really enough to build an entire arc around them was it?  What's more, Aladdin has reappeared.  You think he's just going to go away again?


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Apr 5, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Too bad *kings* aren't elected.  I would have voted for *Sheba*.



You mean Queen, right?


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Apr 5, 2014)

Sinbad's  trolling continues.

You guys stand in a circle, I'm just gonna watch from above and not get in your way!


----------



## Wesley (Apr 5, 2014)

Hard to fault Sinbad.  At the rate they were going, they'd all die in there.


----------



## Drakor (Apr 5, 2014)

It was more hilarious because he never lied to them at all, it just fell into his lap


----------



## CA182 (Apr 5, 2014)

*Spoiler*: __ 



So has anyone made the prediction that Aladdin is Solomon and Sheba's son yet?

Cause as Sheba grows older, she's looking more and more similar to Aladdin.


----------



## jazz189 (Apr 5, 2014)

Wesley said:


> From what we saw, it wasn't really enough to build an entire arc around them was it?  What's more, Aladdin has reappeared.  You think he's just going to go away again?



And that's a good thing, Magi isn't a romance.


----------



## Wesley (Apr 5, 2014)

jazz189 said:


> And that's a good thing, Magi isn't a romance.



At this rate, Alibaba will end up doing nothing again.


----------



## Akabara Strauss (Apr 5, 2014)

That Solomon


----------



## TheFoxsCloak (Apr 6, 2014)

Chapter's out.


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Apr 6, 2014)

....Shit is about to hit the fan


----------



## Wesley (Apr 6, 2014)

That's no good.  Immortal humans tend to fuck shit up after growing complacent and tired in their old age.


----------



## Stilzkin (Apr 7, 2014)

So what's going on with Ill Ilah?

Is this Abraham's doing (he was mentioned to be inactive)? Or is Ill Ilah changing in some way?


----------



## Deleted member 73050 (Apr 7, 2014)

Are they still on Namek?


----------



## Wesley (Apr 7, 2014)

Vino said:


> Are they still on Namek?



What kind of joke is that?  Namek was the setting for a major DBZ arc.  It wasn't a flashback.


----------



## Deleted member 73050 (Apr 7, 2014)

Namek = long ass tiring arc that everyone wants it to end already.


----------



## Wesley (Apr 7, 2014)

Vino said:


> Namek = long ass tiring arc that everyone wants it to end already.



It's been like six chapters.  Kids these days have no patience.

Btw, Arba reminded me of Toto.  Tall, busty, playful, apparently a sword fighter?

Why do magicians know how to use swords?  They'd only be able to use swords on other people and until Solomon and his little rebellion, people apparently got on with eachother.


----------



## Stilzkin (Apr 7, 2014)

Vino said:


> Namek = long ass tiring arc that everyone wants it to end already.



Who wanted namek to end?


----------



## Deleted member 73050 (Apr 7, 2014)

Wesley said:


> It's been like six chapters.  Kids these days have no patience



And I want it to end already, amazing huh? 

Never thought that the Solomon chapters will bore me to sleep.


----------



## Wesley (Apr 7, 2014)

Vino said:


> And I want it to end already, amazing huh?
> 
> Never thought that the Solomon chapters will bore me to sleep.



Well, it'll be over in two or three chapters.

Is it becuase it doesn't seem like the story has any relevance to the real cast and story?  You may be right, aside from a massive info dump with much needed character development for the series antagonists, this arc doesn't seem to serve a purpose.

What exactly is the moral to this story going to be?  Why is Aladdin telling it to everyone?  What are they supposed to think?  

I really don't know.  How is what has been told going to matter to any of them?


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Apr 7, 2014)

So even in the other world women who get rejected attempt to kill every living being in the world.
Unless it goes for an unexpected twist and its the servant girl, who becomes Gyokuen.
Making her refusal to call him by name subtle foreshadowing, that she dislikes him.

Also did David corrupt Il Ilah or was it the 800 years of misusing his magoi?
Did Solomon create the rukh to purify the magoi, so it can be used in his new world?
Tune in for more, on next weeks episode of Magi!


----------



## Roman (Apr 7, 2014)

GYOKUEN. GYOKUEN EVERYWHERE!


----------



## Kellogem (Apr 7, 2014)

Arba is so cute...

but I want shit to hit the fan already.


----------



## Wesley (Apr 7, 2014)

Kimi no Iru Machi X Princess Lucia Crossover manga released

Kimi no Iru Machi X Princess Lucia Crossover manga released

hmmm...


----------



## tupadre97 (Apr 7, 2014)

Stilzkin said:


> So what's going on with Ill Ilah?
> 
> Is this Abraham's doing (he was mentioned to be inactive)? Or is Ill Ilah changing in some way?



He's getting more and more corrupt but when you think about it he was always a douche.


----------



## Wesley (Apr 7, 2014)

tupadre97 said:


> He's getting more and more corrupt but when you think about it he was always a douche.



Hey, a god that doesn't give a good smiting every couple thousand years is no god of mine.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Apr 11, 2014)

Link removed

Oh my god, it is the FANALIS!  Were they one of the species predating when the Humans received magic from Illah?  They are on the same level as the ORIGIN DRAGON?

YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

SOMEONE!  TRANSLATE THAT PAGE WITH THE FANALIS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!

------------------------------------------

Aside from that, this is getting more and more complex by the minute.  Did the Origin Dragon just reveal that Illah *is only an extension of an even greater entity*?  Whatever is going on, the Origin Dragon is dropping a bombshell revelation.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Apr 11, 2014)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> So even in the other world women who get rejected attempt to kill every living being in the world.
> 
> Also did David corrupt Il Ilah or was it the 800 years of misusing his magoi?
> Did Solomon create the rukh to purify the magoi, so it can be used in his new world?
> Tune in for more, on next weeks episode of Magi!



It is Sheba who has the crescent moon staff that Gyokuen is in possession of, so it is most likely that she and Sheba are one and the same.  

As Wesley linked, how Sheba and Gyokuen use Borg is also eerily similar.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Apr 12, 2014)

Now with English translations:

Link removed

This is crazy.  The Fanalis were originally called the "red lions", and they were one of the only two species alongside the Origin Dragons who could no-sell the Magician's mind-control Magic.

Damn.  David is crazy old (FREAKIN' 500 YEARS OLD!?) and he's literally going to surpass Ilah!?

At any rate I suppose we now know the origins of Al-Thamen's "Father" - it is Ilah completely drained of all its power by the Magicians.  To be more specific, it is because David has reached God's level.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Apr 13, 2014)

to vino... HOW is this boring to you man? we're getting huge amounts of info about the world (such as the various dimensions, species, and fundamental mechanics of its creation even) , the main villians (david, gyokuen, illah) , solomon (the one who likely created aladdin), and also some great action scenes and art.

This is so >>>>>>>>>>>>> namek (and dbz in general) that its not even funny.

about 222, the red lions look great, no selling the mind control? damn. I really like the creationism stuff this chapter, how the rifts are unfinished parts of the world, how theres tons of illahs created by even higher beings (and their just power sources!?).

looks like we're getting info on david next chapter! cant wait!


----------



## Shukumei (Apr 13, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> Damn.  David is crazy old (FREAKIN' 500 YEARS OLD!?) and he's literally going to surpass Ilah!?
> 
> At any rate I suppose we now know the origins of Al-Thamen's "Father" - it is Ilah completely drained of all its power by the Magicians.  To be more specific, it is because David has reached God's level.


Is it really David who's going to surpass Ilah? I think it's Solomon, who is already regarded as godlike by some, is going to create the multispecies utopia Alma Toran, and views Ilah as a mindless lump of power waiting to be drained. But he wants his group to stay focused against David, even though his inner thoughts aren't necessarily the same as what he preaches overtly (as seen in this chapter). Solomon is a gifted magician, and is probably going to end up killing God. That might be what the magicians (and his former comrades) won't be able to forgive, his arrogance and deceit.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Apr 13, 2014)

And if you look back at when Muu was explaining the Fanalis origins to Morgiana, *that panel of the Red Lions matches with one panel of the Fanalis' true forms.*  The Fanalia aka. "The Red Lions", *are a species of Alma Torran,* possibly the only ones to survive Alma Torran's destruction aside from the Humans.  

These bad boys could no sell magic; they survived the freakin' apocalypse.  They continue to exist in the Dark Continent, separate from Humankind.


----------



## Yuki (Apr 13, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> And if you look back at when Muu was explaining the Fanalis origins to Morgiana, *that panel of the Red Lions matches with one panel of the Fanalis' true forms.*  The Fanalia aka. "The Red Lions", *are a species of Alma Torran,* possibly the only ones to survive Alma Torran's destruction aside from the Humans.
> 
> These bad boys could no sell magic; they survived the freakin' apocalypse.  They continue to exist in the Dark Continent, separate from Humankind.



Yup. They are one in the same for sure. If you look at the eyes they even look the same.


----------



## Santí (Apr 13, 2014)

My Fanalis wank >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


----------



## Stilzkin (Apr 13, 2014)

Shukumei said:


> Is it really David who's going to surpass Ilah? I think it's Solomon, who is already regarded as godlike by some, is going to create the multispecies utopia Alma Toran, and views Ilah as a mindless lump of power waiting to be drained. But he wants his group to stay focused against David, even though his inner thoughts aren't necessarily the same as what he preaches overtly (as seen in this chapter). Solomon is a gifted magician, and is probably going to end up killing God. That might be what the magicians (and his former comrades) won't be able to forgive, his arrogance and deceit.



I think David is trying to surpass Ilah even if it is Solomon who eventually does so.

I agree that we now have a possible source for the disagreement.

Sheba may believe that Ilah is truly a god rather than just some sort of unthinking natural force. Solomon clearly doesn't believe in a god and will have no problem draining its powers when the opportunity arises, especially as he will need to save humanity.

Al Thamen by challenging Solomon's will is trying to redirect his power back to the drained out Ill Ilah.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Apr 13, 2014)

i've recently begun to question how my manga life ever felt complete without magi. it's... perfect...


----------



## Wesley (Apr 13, 2014)

Two things;

1.) Why not wipe out the other species?  What purpose have they served?

2.) I'd like to see someone try to MC Morgiana only for her to slap the ever living shit out of them for giving her a bad headache lol


----------



## Stilzkin (Apr 13, 2014)

> 1.) Why not wipe out the other species? What purpose have they served?



We have exotic looking djinn, this explain why they look like that.

It gives Solomon's group an original purpose. More to that Sheba and the rest currently see Ill Ilah as a benevolent god who wants the species of the world to live in harmony. This may be what drives the conflict as they refuse to see their god as just a natural force.


----------



## Wesley (Apr 13, 2014)

Stilzkin said:


> We have exotic looking djinn, this explain why they look like that.
> 
> It gives Solomon's group an original purpose. More to that Sheba and the rest currently see Ill Ilah as a benevolent god who wants the species of the world to live in harmony. This may be what drives the conflict as they refuse to see their god as just a natural force.



No, I mean, why didn't humanity wipe them out long ago?  If there was no mission in the first place, why not wipe them all out?  Why has David decided to keep them around, using huge amounts to enslave them, instead of just killing them outright like they obviously can?


----------



## Stilzkin (Apr 13, 2014)

> No, I mean, why didn't humanity wipe them out long ago? If there was no mission in the first place, why not wipe them all out? Why has David decided to keep them around, using huge amounts to enslave them, instead of just killing them outright like they obviously can?



They were being used as slaves I thought.


----------



## Wesley (Apr 13, 2014)

Stilzkin said:


> They were being used as slaves I thought.



To do what?  They're too big to do any delicate work.  There aren't enough people around to make use of such large constructions.  The magic from the towers and the staves seem like they'd be better used somewhere else.

Especially now that Solomon is freeing them and arming them with magic, they seem like they'd be more of a liability than an asset.


----------



## Stilzkin (Apr 14, 2014)

Wesley said:


> There aren't enough people around to make use of such large constructions.



How do you know?

We have yet to see one normal looking person. 

If we judge from what we have seen everyone would be priests or higher up in their church.





> Especially now that Solomon is freeing them and arming them with magic, they seem like they'd be more of a liability than an asset.



I doubt anyone thought that would happen. Something like "what if those loyal magicians who use the staves decide to form a coalition despite the distance between them and betray us, siding with those creatures that we all whole heartily believe are monsters?" isn't going to be crossing their minds.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Apr 14, 2014)

Stilzkin said:


> We have exotic looking djinn, this explain why they look like that.
> 
> It gives Solomon's group an original purpose. More to that Sheba and the rest currently see Ill Ilah as a benevolent god who wants the species of the world to live in harmony. This may be what drives the conflict as they refuse to see their god as just a natural force.



He will likely have to tell people the truth some day, seeing as all the Djinn appear to be aware of said truth.  As for all of Solomon's original comrades, they were all manning the towers with the Divine Staves like Sheba, "doing God's will", as it were, and they follow Solomon because they believe he is guiding them on the path Ilah originally intended.

It is a very dangerous thing, for someone who always fought for a certain cause/faith to learn that their "God" never truly existed - hell, killing their "God" would set them off all in itself.  Should Solomon do what events seem to be pointing towards, then no wonder Al-Thamen is miffed with Solomon - he "killed" their "God", and will destroy the world for the sake of their revenge.


----------



## Stilzkin (Apr 14, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> He will likely have to tell people the truth some day, seeing as all the Djinn appear to be aware of said truth.  As for all of Solomon's original comrades, they were all manning the towers with the Divine Staves like Sheba, "doing God's will", as it were, and they follow Solomon because they believe he is guiding them on the path Ilah originally intended.
> 
> It is a very dangerous thing, for someone who always fought for a certain cause/faith to learn that their "God" never truly existed - hell, killing their "God" would set them off all in itself.  Should Solomon do what events seem to be pointing towards, then no wonder Al-Thamen is miffed with Solomon - he "killed" their "God", and will destroy the world for the sake of their revenge.



What truth? That Solomon doesn't believe in their god? I imagine that would have happened in the past but I guess it's possible that it didn't. I don't know how any part of his group would be siding with him after he ascended if they didn't agree with that.

Killed is definitely not the right word. Solomon is powered by what he took from Ill Ilah and Ill Ilah seems to still be around. I'm guessing the power can still be switched back to its original keep and that's what the whole fight over ruhk flow is about. Revenge is involved in some part but it's mostly about restoring the old order. 

Seeing as the other species were wiped out Al Thamen may have taken back the old beliefs. I guess that makes sense, if Solomon "lied" about doing God's work everything he said about the other species was probably a lie too.


----------



## Wesley (Apr 14, 2014)

Stilzkin said:


> How do you know?
> 
> We have yet to see one normal looking person.
> 
> If we judge from what we have seen everyone would be priests or higher up in their church.



The human population from 800 years ago was less than a 1000.  Unless they had a ridiculous number of kids and never died, they'd be hard-pressed to have more than a million in 800 years.  Every indication is that the number of children being produced by couple is low.  Ugo's never even touched a girl in 60 years of life.

As is typical of people, the longer they live, and the more comfortable they are, the less likely they are to produce heirs.  And since humanity has been at the top of the food chain for as long as anyone can remember...



> I doubt anyone thought that would happen. Something like "what if those loyal magicians who use the staves decide to form a coalition despite the distance between them and betray us, siding with those creatures that we all whole heartily believe are monsters?" isn't going to be crossing their minds.



I'm saying why not kill them when the rebellion began?  When that air force went down in flames, why didn't they start killing the slaves immediately to prevent their conversion?


----------



## Stilzkin (Apr 14, 2014)

> The human population from 800 years ago was less than a 1000. Unless they had a ridiculous number of kids and never died, they'd be hard-pressed to have more than a million in 800 years. Every indication is that the number of children being produced by couple is low. Ugo's never even touched a girl in 60 years of life.
> 
> As is typical of people, the longer they live, and the more comfortable they are, the less likely they are to produce heirs. And since humanity has been at the top of the food chain for as long as anyone can remember...



Well, like you said some of them are living a long time. Unlike in our world they are also experiencing much longer youths and don't seem to be worried about money (I guess efficient slavery does that).

But like I had said, we have no idea what the average civilian is like in their world. Ugo isn't normal, he is a super magician, super scientist, rebel fighting a war.

I don't know I doubt it's that hard to come with ways to use giant slave monsters. 



> I'm saying why not kill them when the rebellion began?



That seems to admit defeat or at least gives credibility to rebels. 

There probably are problems with this story though.


----------



## Wesley (Apr 14, 2014)

Stilzkin said:


> That seems to admit defeat or at least gives credibility to rebels.
> 
> There probably are problems with this story though.



The rebels have apparently nearly liberated the world.  At some point, saving face doesn't matter.

I think the slaves were being used to construct something specifically.  A large magic device meant to effects things on a global scale.  That's why they were enslaved, instead of killed.


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Apr 14, 2014)

this manga is pretty anti-Semitic


----------



## Zhariel (Apr 14, 2014)

Explain? Not that I doubt it, but this sounds like it could be funny.


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Apr 14, 2014)

king David is basically the source of all evil


----------



## Roman (Apr 14, 2014)

Yeah. The moment David is "the bad guy," the whole story is anti-Jew.


----------



## Deleted member 73050 (Apr 14, 2014)

WAD said:


> this manga is pretty anti-Semitic



Yet, I still read it.


----------



## Zhariel (Apr 14, 2014)

There goes hollywood picking this up


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Apr 14, 2014)

Vino said:


> Yet, I still read it.



ur aljewistic tho vino


----------



## Roman (Apr 14, 2014)

Graeme said:


> There goes hollywood picking this up



Good. That's the LAST thing we need.


----------



## Deleted member 73050 (Apr 14, 2014)

WAD said:


> ur aljewistic tho vino



I'm what now?


----------



## FLORIDA MAN (Apr 14, 2014)

it's an amalgamation of being altruistic and jewish


----------



## Santí (Apr 14, 2014)

Not knowing what the first two A-Words mean doesn't make that post very helpful.


----------



## belkrax (Apr 14, 2014)

Sheba eyes when Solomon said human purpose maybe wasnt right was kinda creepy.

The author should do a new manga with a female mc after Magi... Im really enjoying this flashback.



Anyways im interested to see what David has in mind. He seems mysterious... perhaps he is the real Big Bad? Like, somehow he turned into the Ill Illah from the new world?


----------



## Wesley (Apr 14, 2014)

At this point, I'd sooner join Sheba than Solomon.


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Apr 14, 2014)

Wesley said:


> At this point, I'd sooner join Sheba than Solomon.





Solomon for the win.


----------



## Stilzkin (Apr 14, 2014)

Wesley said:


> At this point, I'd sooner join Sheba than Solomon.



You'd rather pray to, and pretend to do the work of, an entity that evidence suggests is just a insentient natural force? Especially when doing so means the death of all life on your planet?


----------



## Wesley (Apr 14, 2014)

Stilzkin said:


> You'd rather pray to, and pretend to do the work of, an entity that evidence suggests is just a insentient natural force? Especially when doing so means the death of all life on your planet?



What evidence?  That's just Solomon's opinion that even he isn't really certain of (he also has a daddy complex).  And I hate atheists, magicians, and liars.  

Besides, even if it is a lie, that the god really is mindless, it really isn't much of a loss then if the power is returned to it.  Without a divinely imposed mandate, the universe is a cold, empty place devoid of any and all meaning.  Everyone really would be better off dead.


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Apr 14, 2014)

Wesley said:


> What evidence?  That's just Solomon's opinion that even he isn't really certain of (he also has a daddy complex).  And I hate atheists, magicians, and liars.
> 
> Besides, even if it is a lie, that the god really is mindless, it really isn't much of a loss then if the power is returned to it.  Without a divinely imposed mandate, the universe is a cold, empty place devoid of any and all meaning. * Everyone really would be better off dead*.


----------



## Gunners (Apr 14, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Two things;
> 
> 1.) Why not wipe out the other species?  What purpose have they served?



Why not wipe out sentient life?


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Apr 14, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Without a divinely imposed mandate, the universe is a cold, empty place devoid of any and all meaning.



[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n5E7feJHw0[/youtube]


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Apr 14, 2014)

Louis's is post is even better, when you notice the Lucifer avatar.


----------



## Stilzkin (Apr 14, 2014)

Wesley said:


> What evidence?  That's just Solomon's opinion that even he isn't really certain of (he also has a daddy complex).



Are you really going to deny this? You are saying that the group of antagonists is more likely to be correct here? That despite the fact that the characters in the story state that they have no proof to believe Ill Ilah has a will (which is really important as this a story and we shouldn't take such statements as meaningless) and that there who knows how many of these things in existence that this thing is a god?



> And I hate atheists, magicians, and liars.



I don't think you know what atheists are. What kind of grouping is that?




> Besides, even if it is a lie, that the god really is mindless, it really isn't much of a loss then if the power is returned to it.



Despite the fact that this means that everyone will die?

How is this something to start a war over anyway? What is there to be gained by restoring the mindless energy container its energy?




> Without a divinely imposed mandate, the universe is a cold, empty place devoid of any and all meaning.  Everyone really would be better off dead.



Umm..... no.

Even if you had a god you would still be in the same situation. So what if a god had a plan for putting you into existence? Why should you respect the values of a god if they simply arbitrarily come from him. If the values are something outside of the god then why invoke a god at all?


----------



## Wesley (Apr 14, 2014)

Stilzkin said:


> Are you really going to deny this? You are saying that the group of antagonists is more likely to be correct here? That despite the fact that the characters in the story state that they have no proof to believe Ill Ilah has a will (which is really important as this a story and we shouldn't take such statements as meaningless) and that there who knows how many of these things in existence that this thing is a god?



Between Aladdin and Solomon deciding what is right all on their own without any basis whatsoever, I'm not going to accept anything a character says to be true unless they have a basis.  And even if the author decides that they are right because that is what the author decided, I'm going to disagree with her.  Word of god does not apply to what I think of a story and it's characters.



> I don't think you know what atheists are. What kind of grouping is that?



I know what they are.  Too often they're protagonists in stories, because writers by their very nature hate God.



> Despite the fact that this means that everyone will die?



If everyone died, no one would care.



> How is this something to start a war over anyway? What is there to be gained by restoring the mindless energy container its energy?



What is there to lose?  If the worth of people is decided by people, then the worth is entirely subjective.  From 0 to infinite.  Who would anyone be to decide for others how much a person is worth?



> Even if you had a god you would still be in the same situation. So what if a god had a plan for putting you into existence? Why should you respect the values of a god if they simply arbitrarily come from him. If the values are something outside of the god then why invoke a god at all?



I actually don't want to get into this.  I stay out of the debate forum for a reason.  I am kind of pissed off though that writers turn characters into mouth pieces for themselves.  Aladdin and now Solomon, I strongly suspect, are guilty of this.

(And yes, I wanted Father to win in FMA so everyone would fucking die and stop irritating me with all their self-serving bullshit.)


----------



## Catalyst75 (Apr 14, 2014)

Wesley said:
			
		

> I know what they are. Too often they're protagonists in stories, *because writers by their very nature hate God*.





Then why are you on a site where people like to discuss the works of writers if you believe they all "hate God"?


----------



## Stilzkin (Apr 14, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Between Aladdin and Solomon deciding what is right all on their own without any basis whatsoever, I'm not going to accept anything a character says to be true unless they have a basis.  And even if the author decides that they are right because that is what the author decided, I'm going to disagree with her.  Word of god does not apply to what I think of a story and it's characters.



That doesn't really make sense.

So even if the author has the characters clearly learn that Ill Ilah is nothing but an insentient force of nature you think the characters should tack on desires to it and worship it?

Your over inherence to an ideology is showing. You should try to be more open minded, at least when you read fiction.

I think there is good reason to believe Ill Ilah is not a sentient being. At the very least it is an easier route to take for the author than an actual god.





> I know what they are.  Too often they're protagonists in stories, because writers by their very nature hate God.



You realize atheists don't hate gods right? They simply don't accept the claims of the existence of any god.

In some way you are probably right here. Fiction does involve the protagonists fighting against the establishment a lot. Has nothing to do with writers hating gods though.





> If everyone died, no one would care.



They would care...........

Are you saying that the only thing that matters is the opinion of supreme beings. 

Maybe Ill Ilah wouldn't care either. A god should be outside time anyway and could create another planet. So I guess you think lives don't matter either way.




> What is there to lose?  If the worth of people is decided by people, then the worth is entirely subjective.  From 0 to infinite.  Who would anyone be to decide for others how much a person is worth?



Look I entirely get your line of reasoning and I don't want to sound demeaning but you appear to be overly close minded on the subject,

If there is no god then you lose a great deal by fighting for it. No amount of wishful thinking would make it true, and no matter how greater you think a reality with a god is changes the reality you are in.

Subjective values are not meaningless, at the very least they are meaningful to ourselves and are important to ourselves. Not all human values are subjective anyways, values can be objective even without a god simply by basing them on the reality in which we happen to live in.


If you really do get frustrated by fiction that deals with these subjects I truly, sincerely, hope you try to be more open minded in the future. These are important subjects and people should not close themselves off from either side of the argument. 




> I am kind of pissed off though that writers turn characters into mouth pieces for themselves. Aladdin and now Solomon, I strongly suspect, are guilty of this.



See this is a problem. The writer is not necessarily trying to dictate a specific view to anyone. It is possible for either side to appreciate concepts from the other and for a writer to create fiction about the possibility of the reality of one. Its too early to even say what the writer is saying about the subject.


----------



## ensoriki (Apr 14, 2014)

This arc lacks Alibaba.
Same issue the magician city arc had.

Solomon seems very similar to Sinbad in his perspective and demeanor at this stage.
I do hope the pace picks up to be even faster. I think everyone gets that Solomon and Sheba were on good terms and would like to move on to what divides them instead of further emphasis on this point of their life. It's not that the arc isn't informative or character building, but I don't really care to all that for Solomons character given he is a dead man in present day. I want to know the reality of Al thamen, the world they live in and what legacy solomon has left in place, not if he wanted to bang some other chick that wasnt sheba or if sheba was jealous of this other chick. The finalis appear for a second and then disappear, we don't even get a present day Mu shot, to show the reaction. We are completely devoid of the present at the moment and that is fine, but I really hope the vast majority of what is going on here is relevant. 

While im sure some appreciate the relationships here and the world building here, to me this world is dead, and the characters relationships now not as important as the breakdown of those relationships.


----------



## Wesley (Apr 14, 2014)

Stilzkin said:


> See this is a problem. The writer is not necessarily trying to dictate a specific view to anyone. It is possible for either side to appreciate concepts from the other and for a writer to create fiction about the possibility of the reality of one. Its too early to even say what the writer is saying about the subject.



There isn't a writer that exists that doesn't think the same exact thing as all of the others.  They're all godless heathens.


----------



## Deleted member 234422 (Apr 14, 2014)

How many more chapters until we are done with this mini arc. I've never been so bored with Magi.


----------



## Stilzkin (Apr 14, 2014)

ensoriki said:


> We are completely devoid of the present at the moment and that is fine, but I really hope the vast majority of what is going on here is relevant.
> 
> While im sure some appreciate the relationships here and the world building here, to me this world is dead, and the characters relationships now not as important as the breakdown of those relationships.



Have you read the last few pages in this thread?

This chapter gave us what seems like a reasonable place for the division to have come from.

The world building that went on tells us a lot about their universe, it was basically the structural backbone of how everything is happening in this story, and it may be revealing in where the story will go next.



Wesley said:


> There isn't a writer that exists that doesn't think the same exact thing as all of the others.  They're all godless heathens.



Sure buddy, keep trolling.


----------



## Lord Genome (Apr 14, 2014)

im liking sinbad spin off more than magi

probably cause sinbad is awesome


----------



## Gunners (Apr 15, 2014)

The arc isn't long, it is just because you've reading it week by week. I read the series over the weekend, and it is but a blip.


----------



## Dark (Apr 15, 2014)

Lord Genome said:


> im liking sinbad spin off more than magi
> 
> probably cause sinbad is awesome



Is the anime version out?


----------



## Wesley (Apr 15, 2014)

No, Sinbad's OVA won't be out for a long time.

Sinbad really has no shame.  Giving that kind of speech to people he'd just tricked.  Although if it were me, I'd have gloated rather than give some speech about changing the world.

I am a bit bothered by the fact that the Rukh seem to be brainwashing everyone.  I've heard of this kind of thing before, where powerful beings alter the flow of destiny in a world, and cause everyone they encounter to be caught up in whatever direction they've found themselves in.  Usually it's more subtle than this.

I mean, it's one thing for Alibaba to trust Sinbad so much.  Alibaba was practically raised on stories about Sinbad after he'd become a legend.  There is some real hero worship there.  In this instance though, these guys were all trying to kill Sinbad until he gave his speech.  He'd just played them for fools.  

I think the author should play up the fact that they're all going to die in there and basically Sinbad is making them a good offer so that they don't end up with nothing to show for their efforts.  Instead of having them buy into his bullshit wholesale, they simply act rationally.

Maybe have Sinbad say something like "Well, you lost this time, but I'm going to keep conquering dungeons, so you'll have another chance"?


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Apr 15, 2014)

Well, Alladin showed us the rukh can affect the soul directly and a persons mindset can effect the rukh.
Like how a negative mindset filled with despair can corrupt the rukh. 
So it isn't that odd, that the rukh can make people follow a magnetic leader.

Also seems my Rukh theory from awhile ago, might actually be correct.



ClandestineSchemer said:


> Regarding Al thamens hate for the rukh flow.
> 
> That rukh was guided by Solomon, so maybe they see it as heretical. Perhaps they think that making it fall into depravity frees the rukh from Solomon and returns it to their real god?


----------



## Gunners (Apr 15, 2014)

I don't think Alibaba trusts Sinbad any more. He seemed pretty disgusted over him taking control of ( forgot name) mind.


----------



## Wesley (Apr 15, 2014)

Gunners said:


> I don't think Alibaba trusts Sinbad any more. He seemed pretty disgusted over him taking control of ( forgot name) mind.



That's true.  This is probably the next step towards him resolving to be independent.  Now he just needs to kick Aladdin to the curb and he's good to go.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 15, 2014)

We saw god give power to the humans and he also only somewhat created the world. 

I think God does have a will he is just currently not involved as in he left while leaving some energy left for the humans to get with the staffs.


----------



## tupadre97 (Apr 16, 2014)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> We saw god give power to the humans and he also only somewhat created the world.
> 
> I think God does have a will he is just currently not involved as in he left while leaving some energy left for the humans to get with the staffs.



No I actually think that David is the one that used Ill Ilah's power to kill the ogres and give humans magic and the staves. It makes the most sense. If Ill Ilah is an actual being well then he would be a real prick. I mean what God destroys its own creations and then gives another the power to destroy the minds of other intelligent species. It just doesn't make any sense and if it's true than the guy is just a douche.


----------



## Wesley (Apr 16, 2014)

tupadre97 said:


> No I actually think that David is the one that used Ill Ilah's power to kill the ogres and give humans magic and the staves. It makes the most sense. If Ill Ilah is an actual being well then he would be a real prick. I mean what God destroys its own creations and then gives another the power to destroy the minds of other intelligent species. It just doesn't make any sense and if it's true than the guy is just a douche.



A god isn't a god unless it's wrathful.


----------



## Morglay (Apr 17, 2014)

Just caught up... So you are telling me an advanced society of giant beasts need an empowerment seminar from the white pubescent male who looks like he skipped straight out of a gig with his boy band onto his soapbox? Naaaaa. Don't fly here. See you when this arc is over.


----------



## Wesley (Apr 17, 2014)

Morglay said:


> Just caught up... So you are telling me an advanced society of giant beasts need an empowerment seminar from the white pubescent male who looks like he skipped straight out of a gig with his boy band onto his soapbox? Naaaaa. Don't fly here. See you when this arc is over.



Said advanced society of giants beasts were turned into drooling mindless slaves that could be forced to do anything, even kill each other.  That's a pretty severe difference in power and ability.


----------



## Morglay (Apr 17, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Said advanced society of giants beasts were turned into drooling mindless slaves that could be forced to do anything, even kill each other.  That's a pretty severe difference in power and ability.



It wasn't hypothetical, that is what happened. Which is my point. All the beef from that just be resolved by the privileged white male saying: "No! You guys are awesome too!"


----------



## Stilzkin (Apr 17, 2014)

Morglay said:


> It wasn't hypothetical, that is what happened. Which is my point. All the beef from that just be resolved by the privileged white male saying: "No! You guys are awesome too!"



You are oversimplifying, or just skimming through the story.

Solomon appealed to their religious side and claims that their god is trying to balance power among the species. He claimed that they were more powerful than humans before magic, which is true. He also gave the leaders of the other species staves so they too could use magic. More importantly Solomon argues that they should live as equals because of what they have in common, emotions, (mainly love) rather than their differences.

This is in fact how most modern societies think about equality. It is not that we should be treated equally because we are in fact all equals, we should be treated equally because we deserve to be treated equally.


----------



## Wesley (Apr 17, 2014)

Morglay said:


> It wasn't hypothetical, that is what happened. Which is my point. All the beef from that just be resolved by the privileged white male saying: "No! You guys are awesome too!"



It'll probably all blow up in his face before too long.  He's already admitted to lying about what he really thinks of god.  Just give it two more chapters.  Then there will be hell to pay.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Apr 19, 2014)

Link removed

Translation for David's book found here:

that Grimmjow could do him, and the others, any harm.


----------



## Wesley (Apr 19, 2014)

Holy shit!  Someone should send that first page to Kubo.  That's how you show character reactions!  Not burn half a chapter on people freakin' out!


----------



## belkrax (Apr 19, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> Link removed
> 
> Translation for David's book found here:
> 
> I am pretty sure that's blood.



Goddamn that was... omninous.

And creepy.

So i think its kinda obvious Sinbad its some kind of David?s proxy.


----------



## Wesley (Apr 20, 2014)

The anime's adaption of the Kougyokou and Sinbad duel was bullshit.  At one point, he knocks her flat out into the water in a head on collision that did not happen!  What originally happened was that he deflected her attack away from him with no appreciable amount of force.  From there, she intentionally dove to the surface to gather water for her attack.  

What's more, the whole time she's blushing, where in the anime she's portrayed as half crazy!  She's fighting the man she loves, it's practically foreplay.  You wouldn't get that from seeing her in the anime!

When they do collide with one another, full force, they're both holding their ground in the air, with water and tornados erupting outward in every direction destroying whatever they touch!

Geez.

Sorry, but I had to complain.  I wanted to see what it looked like animated, but I ended up disappointed.  Not only because the fight was changed, but because Kougyokou was portrayed as being much weaker than she actually is (she's ranked 6th in the manga), while Sinbad was hyped up (like he needed it).


----------



## ensoriki (Apr 20, 2014)

Power rankings don't matter cus Alibaba is the best anyways.


----------



## Legend (Apr 20, 2014)

I've been told this manga is good, where can I read it at


----------



## Wesley (Apr 20, 2014)

ensoriki said:


> Power rankings don't matter cus Alibaba is the best anyways.



He's ranked 4 or 5.


----------



## ensoriki (Apr 20, 2014)

Wesley said:


> He's ranked 4 or 5.



In ability to get a gf maybe. Number one killer doe.


----------



## Wesley (Apr 20, 2014)

ensoriki said:


> In ability to get a gf maybe. Number one killer doe.



Alibaba's ability to get a girlfriend is dead last.  I wouldn't be surprised if King David and Solomon are intentionally fucking with him.


----------



## Legend (Apr 20, 2014)

Thanks everyone


----------



## B Rabbit (Apr 20, 2014)

No problem.


----------



## Wesley (Apr 21, 2014)

Alibaba is the anti-singularity.  It's his gift, it's his curse.


----------



## Xin (Apr 21, 2014)

That chapter. 

tl;dr


----------



## B Rabbit (Apr 21, 2014)

Haven't read the last three. 

Not enough Alibaba.


----------



## MightiestRooster (Apr 21, 2014)

Xin said:


> That chapter.
> 
> tl;dr



You go read it. You go read it now.


*Spoiler*: __ 




It was quite a good read really. Makes you understand the main plot and philosophy of this manga a bit better.


----------



## Kellogem (Apr 22, 2014)

I dont get it... doesnt Sindbad oppose Al Thamen and gyokuen? 

so David is an antagonist, and so are Al Thamen and Sindbad is going to be, yet they have different goals.. I thought gyokuen is representing davids goals.


----------



## Kanae (Apr 25, 2014)

The chinese scan of the new chapter is out in baidu. And someone did a translation / summary of the important bits .

*edit*; 's the full translation.


----------



## Wesley (Apr 25, 2014)

Double chapter this week.


----------



## Stilzkin (Apr 25, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Double chapter this week.



I think you mean double issue. There is a break next week.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Apr 25, 2014)

I dont see how anyone could possibly dislike this arc...

Its one of the most interesting "origins story" of anything i've ever read. 

Seeing the way that the gods of the world works, finding about the great rift, seeing how the djinns were before they became whaf they are, wondering who's gonna be gyokuen, seeing solomon in action, and davids memorandum... so creepy. And just about everything else too. 

Its so nice to read something where theres such a realistic set if morals for everyone. and ohtaka respects her readers and doesnt treat them like idiots, which is great, it makes everything so interesting when it not being over simplified or over explained.

I swear to god, this is my favorite manga, I just wish it'd get more recognition in america. oh well... japan loves it and thats all that matters.


----------



## Santí (Apr 26, 2014)

crystalblade13 said:


> I swear to god, this is my favorite manga, I just wish it'd get more recognition in america. oh well... japan loves it and thats all that matters.



I understand your passion, but Japan also loves the shit out of Fairy Tail and... Well, I'ma stop there.

But I completely agree and can say this is perhaps my favorite flashback arc since Bleach's Turn Back then Pendulum, and this so far is winning.


----------



## Wesley (Apr 26, 2014)

crystalblade13 said:


> Its so nice to read something where theres such a realistic set if morals for everyone. and ohtaka respects her readers and doesnt treat them like idiots, which is great, it makes everything so interesting when it not being over simplified or over explained.



I wonder if she's single...


----------



## crystalblade13 (Apr 26, 2014)

Sant? said:


> I understand your passion, but Japan also loves the shit out of Fairy Tail and... Well, I'ma stop there.
> 
> 
> 
> But I completely agree and can say this is perhaps my favorite flashback arc since Bleach's Turn Back then Pendulum, and this so far is winning.



Well, magi was 4th on japans overall manga sales in 2013, compared to fairy tail at 9th. so they like it more at least, lol.

And hell yeah! This arc is so good. really cant wait to see if ohtaka shows david vs. solomon!



Wesley said:


> I wonder if she's single...



I cant find a pic of her online anywhere. i wanna see the face of the one who's awesome enough to make this wonderful manga.


----------



## TheFoxsCloak (Apr 29, 2014)

New Chapter


----------



## Kuromaku (Apr 29, 2014)

EDIT: Ninja'd

Shipping arc? Shipping arc.


----------



## Wesley (Apr 29, 2014)

I thought we were getting two chapters this week?


----------



## Stilzkin (Apr 29, 2014)

Wesley said:


> I thought we were getting two chapters this week?



Double issue means that the content of this week is meant to cover two weeks not that the week gets twice the content.


----------



## Wesley (Apr 29, 2014)

Stilzkin said:


> Double issue means that the content of this week is meant to cover two weeks not that the week gets twice the content.



So the nature of Sheba's relationship with Arba and Arba confiding in Sheba about Solomon's needs counts as two chapters?


----------



## Gunners (Apr 29, 2014)

Wesley said:


> So the nature of Sheba's relationship with Arba and Arba confiding in Sheba about Solomon's needs counts as two chapters?



It is just how the whole thing works. Golden week, Mangaka get a week off, so to avoid screwing with the issue cycle it becomes a double. 

E.g. 

Week 1: issue 20-21
Week 2 (GW): ... 
Week 3: Issue 22
Week 4: Issue 23. 

As opposed to 

Week 1:  Issue 20
Week 2 (GW): ...
Week 3:  Issue 21
Week 4:  Issue 22

You need to treat it as one chapter.


----------



## Xnr (Apr 29, 2014)

Still undecided whether Sheba or Arba will be the one to back-stab Solomon. I was almost sure it'd be Sheba but now it looks uncertain, especially with how similar they look to the Magi bitch.


----------



## Kanae (Apr 29, 2014)

^ Yeah, I'm kind of on the fence myself because a twist isn't out of the question. Though to be fair, what we've seen so far does point to Sheba either being Gyokuen / having taken over her at some point or another.

*Spoiler*: __ 
















So given that, I'm kinda more concerned by Aladdin's mom having pretty much the exact same hairstyle as her


----------



## Wesley (Apr 30, 2014)

Sheba will die, Aladdin will be the first traitor, and Arba will be revealed to be Gyokouen.


----------



## Drakor (Apr 30, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Sheba will die, Aladdin will be the first traitor, and Arba will be revealed to be Gyokouen.


This, I've also felt that Arba is Gyokouen as well based on her speech and this chapters mannerism behind closed doors.


----------



## crystalblade13 (May 1, 2014)

Im gonna say its arba.

I liked their conversatin this chapter, it was touching. I also enjoyed seeing solomons humble side. and freaking falans and wahids relationship is hilarious.


----------



## Wesley (May 5, 2014)

I'd like to point out that the main purpose behind this arc is to develop the major antagonists of the series.  You can't just dismiss it because your favorite characters aren't in it.  If you like the story and the setting at all, you should read it.


----------



## Xin (May 5, 2014)

Magi when? 

Pls don't say Golden Week break. :I


----------



## Wesley (May 5, 2014)

Xin said:


> Magi when?
> 
> Pls don't say Golden Week break. :I



Next week.  Hopefully an early chapter.


----------



## Xin (May 5, 2014)

:I :I      :I


----------



## crystalblade13 (May 5, 2014)

no magi hurts my soul. 

and and it was stated, disliking this arc is kinda ridiculous if you care at all about the magi world, the villians,  or aladdin.

not to mention that this arc has had great drama, mystery, and action. solomon and arba are great enough characters to hold this arc up without the mains easily. the supporting cast is even largely entertaining.

dont get dem complaints, unless their coming from shippers who only care about who alibaba's gonna end up  with 

magi deserves so much more than that.


----------



## Rai (May 9, 2014)

Magi 224 RAW:

136 trans


----------



## Wesley (May 9, 2014)

*Spoiler*: _At RAW_ 



Looks like things are all downhill from here lol


----------



## Fourangers (May 9, 2014)

*Spoiler*: __ 



The first page...lol.

"Please date me!"

"Please date me!"

"Aw, c'mon, at least show some kind of response dammit!"

and then...:

Solomon: "I will no longer see you as a kid."

Ufu fu fu fu fu--


----------



## LordPerucho (May 11, 2014)

I just caught up, What I really like about Magi is the character development, its as great as One Pieces.


----------



## eluna (May 11, 2014)

^Indeed Magi is the only manga to make me love a character when I hated first


----------



## Wesley (May 11, 2014)

eluna said:


> ^Indeed Magi is the only manga to make me love a character when I hated first



Who might that be?


----------



## Furious George (May 12, 2014)

Finally caught up. 

God, this series just keeps getting better and better.


----------



## Wesley (May 12, 2014)

Furious George said:


> Finally caught up.
> 
> God, this series just keeps getting better and better.



It didn't even have a slow start.  


*Spoiler*: __ 



When I first it read it, I expected a long ass journey to the dungeon when it was mentioned lol


----------



## Dark (May 12, 2014)

Is the translated version out yet?


----------



## Wesley (May 12, 2014)

No, but the chapter could be summarized as 


*Spoiler*: __ 



Do she got the booty? She do!


----------



## Wesley (May 12, 2014)

New chapter is out.


----------



## Atlantic Storm (May 12, 2014)

That was sort of boring. I wonder how that guy know all those things about Solomon, though. I'm guessing he'll have some more relevance in the future as maybe the catalyst of how things went downhill for Solomon or something.


----------



## LordPerucho (May 12, 2014)

Shebas character development has been fantastic.


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (May 12, 2014)

Its an important chapter.
This shows hints of the magicians greed and how Solomons equality wasn't in their benefit.
As the dominant species, they would have to make the most concessions, after all.
Plus it shows how easily manipulated the populace is.


----------



## Wesley (May 12, 2014)

Solomon's first reaction was banishment.  Meaning the mind control magic would work on them.  Harsh considering how that can be used.



ClandestineSchemer said:


> Its an important chapter.
> This shows hints of the magicians greed and how Solomons equality wasn't in their benefit.
> As the dominant species, they would have to make the most concessions, after all.
> Plus it shows how easily manipulated the populace is.



It also shows that while Solomon and company can give love speeches, the reality is that more than anything they're united against a common enemy.


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (May 12, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Solomon's first reaction was banishment.  Meaning the mind control magic would work on them.  Harsh considering how that can be used.
> 
> 
> 
> It also shows that while Solomon and company can give love speeches, the reality is that more than anything they're united against a common enemy.




He only banished the human magicians, which can't be mind controlled.
But he did take the other species staves, which took their only magicians away.


----------



## Malvingt2 (May 12, 2014)

Furious George said:


> Finally caught up.
> 
> God, this series just keeps getting better and better.



I am glad that your back to this thread George. 

Today chapter was lol


----------



## LordPerucho (May 12, 2014)

Magi is Fairy Tail done the right way.

I really want to see more feats of Morgianna, so far we only saw that her magoi doesnt run out in 1 attack..


----------



## Wesley (May 12, 2014)

perucho1990 said:


> Magi is Fairy Tail done the right way.



Magi couldn't be any more different from Fairy Tail.

Magi doesn't have fodder-of-the-week syndrome.  It doesn't have any fanservice (doesn't stop the characters from being attractive, even sexy).  It doesn't have characters doing stupid things for stupid reasons.  Everyone is pretty smart in their own right and not in a fake sort of "I read books" way.

Magi's world is HUGE and the characters go out into it to live their lives (where anyone in Fairy Tail strikes out for like a week and then goes back to the guild).  Characters have responsibilities.  They have goals.  They're pretty darn close to real people.



> I really want to see more feats of Morgianna, so far we only saw that her magoi doesnt run out in 1 attack..



She's a Finalist.  She can throw 30 ton boulders around like they're popcorn.  She don't need no stinking magic.


----------



## LordPerucho (May 12, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Magi couldn't be any more different from Fairy Tail.
> 
> Magi doesn't have fodder-of-the-week syndrome.  It doesn't have any fanservice (doesn't stop the characters from being attractive, even sexy).  It doesn't have characters doing stupid things for stupid reasons.  Everyone is pretty smart in their own right and not in a fake sort of "I read books" way.
> 
> ...



No I mean FT uses the Nakama punch and the TNJ, In Manga you kinda get the same thing but its done the right way.

Didnt Masrur say only having physical strength is worthless vs Al Tharmet ?

Masrur with magic 1 shotted Zurmudd.


----------



## Wesley (May 12, 2014)

perucho1990 said:


> No I mean FT uses the Nakama punch and the TNJ, In Manga you kinda get the same thing but its done the right way.



When was there a Nakama punch?



> Didnt Masrur say only having physical strength is worthless vs Al Tharmet ?
> 
> Masrur with magic 1 shotted Zurmudd.



Masrur was said to only use his Household vessel under two circumstances.

1.) Where his life or the lives of his allies were in danger

or

2.) He was extremely pissed off.

Considering the circumstances, I don't think he used his Vessel because he needed it.

Against Metal Vessel users, Finalists probably run up short unless they can perform assimilation.


----------



## LordPerucho (May 13, 2014)

PoF/Nakama punch kinda the same thing, mostly featuring Alibaba, when he faced Cassim and that monster at the coliseum. 

We saw that Alibaba and Aladdin are already as strong as their former Senseis, need to see Morgianna show new feats in order to prove she is as strong as Masrur


----------



## ensoriki (May 13, 2014)

perucho1990 said:


> Magi is Fairy Tail done the right way.
> 
> I really want to see more feats of Morgianna, so far we only saw that her magoi doesnt run out in 1 attack..



Right way of what?
Fairy tails deal is quite different and it's stupid as all fuck in execution.

Magi: Remnants of ancient world fuking up the current while characters figure out how to govern.

Fairy Tail: Dragons adopted us and disappeared. While in our ragtag giant group of friends....see if we can find out why. Insert new horse-shit problem after new horse-shit problem that is concluded by "For my friends", sigh, rinse, repeat.


----------



## eluna (May 14, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Who might that be?


At first I really can't stand Sheba but later I like her a lot,Titus was this too but later I even cry of hapiness when he reborn


----------



## Wesley (May 14, 2014)

perucho1990 said:


> PoF/Nakama punch kinda the same thing, mostly featuring Alibaba, when he faced Cassim and that monster at the coliseum.



PoF/Nakama punch are last minute ass pulls that give Fairy Tail characters the win after getting their shit wrecked for most of the fight.  That's why they are universally despised.  There is zero drama in any given Fairy Tail fight since Fairy Tail is always losing right up until they win.

What happened between Cassim and Alibaba was a real battle until Alibaba was absorbed into the Djinn.  Then it was more of a mental thing where, yes, their feelings towards one played a part, but it's completely different from the "MUH FRINDZ" BS in Fairy Tail.

The Coliseum fight was not a PoF thing.  Even if it were, Alibaba's performance hinged entirely on his past experiences fighting as a child.  He used tactics.  He used feints, misdirection, and his opponent's actions against herself.

More than an explosion of feelings, what happened to Alibaba in the Coliseum was a near-death experience giving him mental clarity.  He went the complete opposite direction.  He calmed the fuck down and started thinking.



> We saw that Alibaba and Aladdin are already as strong as their former Senseis, need to see Morgianna show new feats in order to prove she is as strong as Masrur



Alibaba is not as good a sword-fighter as Sharrkan and Aladdin is not as good a magician as Yam.  They probably never will be as good as them, since both of their teachers are geniuses at what they do.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 15, 2014)

He said they were stronger Wesley aka in a fight they would win.

Also lol, Aladdin is the new Solomon he is going to be the best magician besides perhaps two other elder magis due to potential time constraints as those two are old as hell.

And Alibaba could dance with Muu of all people, he will dance circles around his old master in due time.


----------



## Wesley (May 15, 2014)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> He said they were stronger Wesley aka in a fight they would win.



They'd win in a fight not holding anything back, but that has nothing to do with their qualifications in terms of skill and natural ability.  Sharrkan was born with a sword in his hand.  Yam has a genius IQ and a Magoi pool that's easily 3-5x what Aladdin has to work with.



> Also lol, Aladdin is the new Solomon he is going to be the best magician besides perhaps two other elder magis due to potential time constraints as those two are old as hell.



Aladdin is a mediocre mage at best.  He's got some creativity and a brawler's mentality as far as how to fight goes, but he's no genius.  He's never going to be on Solomon's level who was kind of a stupid genius who could do shit without even really understanding it.



> And Alibaba could dance with Muu of all people, he will dance circles around his old master in due time.



Alibaba has been a skilled swordsman since he was introduced in the manga.  He might not be at his limit in terms of skill, but the amount of effort needed for him to reach that would be too much in a practical sense.  Strictly-speaking, in terms of martial skill, I'd say that Alibaba is on par with Mu, En, and Sinbad.  If he's going to lose to those three, it's because they're bigger, stronger, and faster than he is.


----------



## Rai (May 16, 2014)

Magi 225 RAW: 3


----------



## Wesley (May 16, 2014)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Ugo invented the Rukh.  I don't think we've seen Rukh in Alma Toran until now.  Funny that the original is black.

Really, seems like a very interesting chapter.


----------



## Imagine (May 19, 2014)

Link removed


----------



## Wesley (May 19, 2014)

OBVIOUSLY!?


----------



## Kuromaku (May 20, 2014)

I will say this about this flashback arc, in spite of the obvious issues with stopping the main plot to go back in time. While typical flashbacks are only a few chapters long, they are paced such that we can't really get too attached to any characters in them. This has been long enough that readers can connect to the characters and dread the inevitable.


----------



## Harbour (May 20, 2014)

Im tired of these flashback. No characters i like are in these flashbacks. And nothing interesting happened there.
Strange love story, pregnancy - typical woman manga. Fuck it.


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (May 20, 2014)

So:
1. Alladin
2.Gyokuen


----------



## Malvingt2 (May 20, 2014)

oh oh oh... Slow down the pregnancy with magic?


----------



## Roman (May 20, 2014)

Malvingt2 said:


> oh oh oh... Slow down the pregnancy with magic?



They can slow down aging so why not. My bet is on Aladdin. As if his resemblance to both Solomon and Sheba isn't enough of a hint.


----------



## Sphyer (May 20, 2014)

Kuromaku said:


> I will say this about this flashback arc, in spite of the obvious issues with stopping the main plot to go back in time. While typical flashbacks are only a few chapters long, they are paced such that we can't really get too attached to any characters in them. This has been long enough that readers can connect to the characters and dread the inevitable.



I'll agree with this. 

For me and perhaps others though, the full weight of the arc can be appreciated once it's over considering how terrible the endgame of it is.

I'm just waiting until we soon get to that point while taking in a few interesting details that pop up once in a while.


----------



## Rukia (May 20, 2014)

I actually missed a few chapters.  And I am really confused.  This isn't the Sheba I remember!  She's pregnant?  Who is the sperm donor?

And she gets along with everyone?  Since when?  I thought she wanted to exterminate all the lesser species.


----------



## ensoriki (May 20, 2014)

Rukia said:


> I actually missed a few chapters.  And I am really confused.  This isn't the Sheba I remember!  She's pregnant?  Who is the sperm donor?
> 
> And she gets along with everyone?  Since when?  I thought she wanted to exterminate all the lesser species.



As a sign of everyone getting along Solomon had a train run on her.
By luck the cuckold is still the father,.


----------



## Butcher (May 20, 2014)

Well, I say Sheba's kid is Gyouken. 

I was thinking Sheba would turn into Gyouken, but that doesn't seem like it is going to happen even after/during the tragedy that is going to happen. The pregnancy, for some odd reason, made me doubt Sheba is Gyouken also. 

Though, iirc, it was said Gyouken was one of the best soldiers in Solomon's army, IE, Sheba. 

Now that I think about it, there is still too much things conflicting to really determine who is 100% Gyouken .


----------



## Kellogem (May 20, 2014)

Sheba should be Gyouken and the child Aladdin.. that would be interesting, but it wont happen.

Arba is most likely Gyouken, and the child is obviously Aladdin.

Im still hoping for a twist.


----------



## luffy no haki (May 20, 2014)

You know what would be funny, that the child weren?t Aladdin but Judar.


----------



## Stilzkin (May 20, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Solomon doesn't pray.



Yea, nice detail from the author.

Problem I have with Arba being Gyokuen is that we have barely seen her in the flashback. Up to this point we have no understanding of her possible motivations as the leader of a cult or as a person.


----------



## Magnum Miracles (May 20, 2014)

Stilzkin said:


> Problem I have with Arba being Gyokuen is that we have barely seen her in the flashback. Up to this point we have no understanding of her possible motivations as the leader of a cult or as a person.



We'll get it eventually, if she actually turns out to be Gyouken.


----------



## Stilzkin (May 20, 2014)

Magnum Miracles said:


> We'll get it eventually, if she actually turns out to be Gyouken.



At this point it's hard to see how it would be more than a villain monologue or a one chapter wrap up of what she has been doing behind the scenes.

Both are a waste when we have had a fairly long flashback to delve into it. Also Sheba's development becomes an expensive red herring. Knowing about Alibaba's possible mother may be interesting but it is needless for the actual story being told. A heavier focus on Ugo, a character we had previously known of, would have made more sense in that case.


----------



## Wesley (May 20, 2014)

Stilzkin said:


> Problem I have with Arba being Gyokuen is that we have barely seen her in the flashback. Up to this point we have no understanding of her possible motivations as the leader of a cult or as a person.



She's attracted to/loves Solomon but her history with him, her duty complicates her feelings and their relationship.  So she threw them away and promoted Sheba to be his wife, despite herself.  Arba clearly likes Sheba as well, so while it might be a bitter pill to swallow, she's willing to try.

Really though, the whole deal with Solomon and his friends it seems like they all made many personal sacrifices for their dream and for Solomon, but somehow they ended up unsatisfied or felt betrayed by him.  I fully expect Solomon just do some huge dick move or for him to dismiss the sacrifices out of hand.

The fact that Solomon says he doesn't want to be god king, but somehow ends up being that anyway...

At any rate, if you pay attention to Al Tharem's MO, they barely do anything.  Most of the time when they stir up trouble, they have a proxy who through their own callous, reckless behavior end up promoting Al Tharem's goals. 

Fanan didn't force the assassins to eat the evil-looking bugs.

The banker did not force Alibaba's brother to be a greedy lil'prick.

The arms-dealer did not force Cassim and his crew to be blood-drenched revolutionaries.

They did not force Mogamett to commit to a bloody revolution or a bullshit class-system.

They prod, they arm, but it's mostly through the fault of others that bad things happen.  Not to say that they are innocent, but they have a very subtle and withdrawn approach.  They almost seem to want to prove something via through their methods.


----------



## LordPerucho (May 20, 2014)

Its clearly Aladdin(the baby) because he resembles his dad(Solomon a lot) like most Shounen MC...


----------



## crystalblade13 (May 20, 2014)

i really wish sawyer7mage would try reading this. it'd be a great way to expose this manga's greatness to even more people. considering he's such a popular reviewer.


----------



## Wesley (May 21, 2014)

crystalblade13 said:


> i really wish sawyer7mage would try reading this. it'd be a great way to expose this manga's greatness to even more people. considering he's such a popular reviewer.



What manga does he like?


----------



## Varg (May 21, 2014)

I still believe that this  page tells us enough of who Gyokuen would turn out to be when the _god_ renders the cycle of rebirth almost impossible in Toran on turning black whenever David completes his experimentation. 

Fanatics following their god's will(or lack thereof, which would AGAIN mean that good will could be meaningless and chaos was meant to be, for them)  irrespective of how destructive it ends up being seems to be the basis behind Al Thamen.


----------



## Roman (May 21, 2014)

crystalblade13 said:


> i really wish sawyer7mage would try reading this. it'd be a great way to expose this manga's greatness to even more people. considering he's such a popular reviewer.



I love that reviewer. He did review Legend of Korra so I don't see why he wouldn't like Magi as well since TLA and Magi do share some similarities. Hearing his reviews of each chapter would be really amazing, tho sadly he probably doesn't have the time now that he's also taking care of Hunter X Hunter anime and GoT.


----------



## Shinryu (May 21, 2014)

Arba is Gyokuen? Mindblown wonder why she went insane.


----------



## crystalblade13 (May 22, 2014)

Wesley said:


> What manga does he like?



he likes naruto, one piece, the hunter hunter anime, legend of korra. game of thrones apparently too lol. 

someone should try to convince him to read it, i would if i werent stuck using the wii u for internet. you can watch video's and stuff with it, but sending messages on youtube just doesnt work for some reason.


----------



## Dark (May 22, 2014)

I am sure this was stated but I can't remember, who is the 2nd strongest? Assuming Solomon is not excluded and he is the number one strongest fighter among the resistance.


----------



## Dark (May 22, 2014)

Wesley said:


> just made my mind explode man
> 
> Solomon doesn't pray.



It seems that the author is gonna make Solomon be more expressive about his atheism later on and I am betting that its the reason why some of his followers turn against him and possibly the reason why Gyokuen is gonna be against him. 

Also Al-Thamen dislike of the Rukh and consider it some heresy that Solomon came up with can be a hint. 

It will probably have to do with Solomon believing that there is no God, and that its just something people made up and how its all some natural phenomena and its here where his followers (the ones who will probably form Al-Thamen) will disagree with him. 

It won't have to do with Solomon turning out to be like David and being some power corrupt fuck, in the contrary I think its just Solomon's belief that religion/God is the thing he meant in "we should change something more fundamental in the world"      

I wonder though, how Solomon's other followers who believe in God will decide to stay with Solomon; people like Ugo. And its obvious that their idea of God is different than Solomon's




*Spoiler*: __ 









*Spoiler*: __ 






 
Or I am totally wrong and basing stuff of a few manga panels


----------



## Louis Cyphre (May 22, 2014)

> Atheist (more or less)
> Doesn't want to be reverenced 
> Became a god, in the end.
Sweet irony


----------



## Rai (May 23, 2014)

Magi 226 RAW: 3


----------



## Catalyst75 (May 23, 2014)

*Spoiler*: __ 



It looks like Solomon is finally deciding to become King, and Ugo explains the Rukh more in-depth to Solomon and the others.  Based on Solomon's expression at the end, this looks like it will be one of the EVENTS that causes things in Alma Toran to escalate to what they did, and Sheba to become Gyokuen.

NOTE: If anyone is aware, the all upper-case EVENT is a reference to the Belgariad.


----------



## Catalyst75 (May 24, 2014)

Link removed

Ah, now I understand Solomon's reaction in the last page - he must have dawned on the realization that he was actually right in all his beliefs, that all beings do share one thing in common with each other: the Rukh.  Ugo might have proven to be Solomon's salvation - and the salvation of the world.


----------



## crystalblade13 (May 25, 2014)

i really hope sheba isnt gyokuen. arba would make more sense to me. I dont think ohtaka will make this arc end THAT tragically.


----------



## Gunners (May 25, 2014)

Maybe his daughter will be the villain.


----------



## Black Knight (May 25, 2014)

Clearly Sheba is not Gyokuen. Part of the reason she was introduced already wielding the crescent moon-shaped wand was to mislead us the readers.

We also musn't forget the current Gyokuen is but the actual traitorous magi possessing the body of the empress.

And anyway, all the hints suggest the baby is Aladdin.


----------



## Rukia (May 25, 2014)

What if the baby is Judar?


----------



## Black Knight (May 26, 2014)

Because Judar isn't a Magi from Alma Toran. The 3 magi in the current world are Judar, Yuunan and Titus. Aladdin is a magi from that world, and so is the traitorous magi currently known as Ren Gyokuen.


----------



## crystalblade13 (May 26, 2014)

solomon seems to be pretty interested in the "equal" aspect of the ruhk.TOO interested. is he already thinking about recreating the world? 

also, the scene with solomon and sheba in bed was fucking adorable.

seems like its gonna be 2 more weeks till shit really hits the fan. cant wait! I love this arc. I really wanna see who this story of alma torran effects more: sinbad, or koen?


----------



## Catalyst75 (May 26, 2014)

crystalblade13 said:


> i really hope sheba isnt gyokuen. arba would make more sense to me. I dont think ohtaka will make this arc end THAT tragically.



Actually, Sheba becoming Gyokuen does make the most sense _because it would be that tragic._  In the flashbacks to Alma Torran, the Magi who betrayed Solomon was always depicted as the one with the crescent moon staff - with the final nail in the coffin being chapter 193.

The entire Alma Torran arc has been about how that came about - showing who the Magi were before the end of Alma Torran, and before "Ren Gyokuen" betrayed Solomon.

Sheba is the one who possesses the crescent moon staff.


----------



## Wesley (May 26, 2014)

Sheba's going to die and that'll be the beginning of the end.

All of Solomon's friends told him "if you become despotic, we'll reign you in."  That's Al Tharem right there.  They're opposing him just like they said they would.


----------



## Stilzkin (May 26, 2014)

Wesley said:


> All of Solomon's friends told him "if you become despotic, we'll reign you in."  That's Al Tharem right there.  They're opposing him just like they said they would.



Al Thamen isn't made up of more than one of his friends though. As far as we know most of his friends are still supporting whatever his last plan was.


----------



## Wesley (May 26, 2014)

Stilzkin said:


> Al Thamen isn't made up of more than one of his friends though. As far as we know most of his friends are still supporting whatever his last plan was.



Except for Ugo, all of his closest friends are with Al Tharem.


----------



## Magnum Miracles (May 27, 2014)

I can't wait for the despair, tbh. Gonna be great .


----------



## Stilzkin (May 27, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Except for Ugo, all of his closest friends are with Al Tharem.



Really? Where are you getting that?

Aren't the djinn the higher ups of Solomon's kingdom?  They are serving Solomon's cause by doing whatever the job of a djinn is supposed to be.

The wiki seems to agree with me here:



> At some point, after the betrayal of one of his Magi and some of his former comrades such as Falan and Ithnan, war exploded between the Magicians and Goi. They were also attacked by many Medium, its Black Djinn and Al-Thamen. In order to fight against them, Solomon's 72 Household Members became Djinns and fought them one after another.



Anyway their actions are pretty stupid if they are simply against Solomon as a god. It may have fallen upon them to oppose what their friend became but that doesn't justify them screwing an entire planet of people.


----------



## Roman (May 27, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Sheba's going to die and that'll be the beginning of the end.
> 
> All of Solomon's friends told him "if you become despotic, we'll reign you in."  That's Al Tharem right there.  They're opposing him just like they said they would.



Clearly you read that wrong. They're telling him they'll stop him from becoming despotic. Or are you implying Al Thamen are the good guys after all/that it's their duty to obey Solomon no matter how cruel he becomes?


----------



## Malvingt2 (May 27, 2014)

For some reason Solomon gives me Sinbad vibe... I am the only one?


----------



## Roman (May 27, 2014)

Solomon doesn't really remind me of Sinbad at all tbh. Sinbad is pretty passionate about forming his country and being king but Solomon never wanted to be in that position as his objective has always been to create an independent society.


----------



## Black Knight (May 27, 2014)

Keep in mind we already saw a brief glimpse of Aladdin's mom in Alma Toran. Though she shares no resemblance with any of Solomon's followers, it's quite easy to guess who is Aladdin's mother. The mere fact he still looks a like a child despite it's been long confirmed he's actually older than he looks should enough of a clue.


----------



## Wesley (May 27, 2014)

Stilzkin said:


> Really? Where are you getting that?
> 
> Aren't the djinn the higher ups of Solomon's kingdom?  They are serving Solomon's cause by doing whatever the job of a djinn is supposed to be.
> 
> The wiki seems to agree with me here:



No, the flashbacks aren't in any way playing up the importance of the Djinn.  Prior to becoming king, the ones closest to him were his first friends and they are the ones that promised to reign him in.



> Anyway their actions are pretty stupid if they are simply against Solomon as a god. It may have fallen upon them to oppose what their friend became but that doesn't justify them screwing an entire planet of people.



It takes two sides to have a conflict.  Perhaps Solomon should have backed down from whatever he was trying to do?  Just because Al-Tharem went nuclear before Solomon did, doesn't mean they were automatically wrong, that they had no point.

If you look at Al-Tharem in the context of the mangas, so far they haven't done anything directly aside from trying to kill Sinbad.  They always use proxies who have fallen into depravity or are headed that way.  They give people destructive weapons, they take advantage of crappy rulers but rarely usurp them.  They really would prefer people to voluntarily destroy the world for the most part.

As for Solomon, he is not a very good leader.  People follow him because of his power, his achievements, and who his father is.  His demonstrated charisma is actually pretty low.  The only "cute" moment he has are when he ate books and tried to learn other languages, but now that he's a grown man with responsibilities being foisted onto him, he's painfully silent and indecisive.

You stack Solomon up against Sinbad, Alibaba, or any of the other King's Candidates, and you gotta wonder, what's so great about this guy?  He's a real douchebag and if he didn't have Sheba and his other friends along to speak on his behalf, he'd do and say nothing.


----------



## Stilzkin (May 27, 2014)

Wesley said:


> No, the flashbacks aren't in any way playing up the importance of the Djinn.  Prior to becoming king, the ones closest to him were his first friends and they are the ones that promised to reign him in.



We haven't seen that all his friends became Al Thamen members yet. 




> If you look at Al-Tharem in the context of the mangas, so far they haven't done anything directly aside from trying to kill Sinbad.  They always use proxies who have fallen into depravity or are headed that way.  They give people destructive weapons, they take advantage of crappy rulers but rarely usurp them.  They really would prefer people to voluntarily destroy the world for the most part.



Pushing people into doing bad things is just as bad as doing them.



> As for Solomon, he is not a very good leader.  People follow him because of his power, his achievements, and who his father is.  His demonstrated charisma is actually pretty low.  The only "cute" moment he has are when he ate books and tried to learn other languages, but now that he's a grown man with responsibilities being foisted onto him, he's painfully silent and indecisive.



He is the leader as he is the one with the idea. He appears as indecisive as he is the one being pushed to make decisions.



> You stack Solomon up against Sinbad, Alibaba, or any of the other King's Candidates, and you gotta wonder, what's so great about this guy?  He's a real douchebag and if he didn't have Sheba and his other friends along to speak on his behalf, he'd do and say nothing.



That's completely wrong. This is the guy who set up the entire group and decided to try to bring peace to the world.

You mistake his indecisiveness as bad leadership but it's the opposite. The difference between him and the King Candidate's is that he is honestly interested in bettering the world and not in taking control of it. He is well aware that there are problems in him becoming king, and he is also aware that he has to take decisions. He is stuck in a difficult position.


----------



## Wesley (May 27, 2014)

Stilzkin said:


> We haven't seen that all his friends became Al Thamen members yet.



True, only 2 are confirmed, but do you really think there be more than one?  Ugo's enough...



> Pushing people into doing bad things is just as bad as doing them.



Al-Tharem doesn't push.  They make it clear who's decision it is to do whatever.  All they did with Cassim and his group was hand them weapons and tell them how to use them.  What they did from there was entirely their fault.  With Abmed, when the money ran out, it was his decision to put the people up for collateral.

If you give a guy enough rope to hang himself, who's really at fault?



> He is the leader as he is the one with the idea. He appears as indecisive as he is the one being pushed to make decisions.



He's pushed to make decisions, but doesn't make decisions.  The revelation with the Rukh and the potential he see's there is the first time he's expressed anything like an original thought.



> That's completely wrong. This is the guy who set up the entire group and decided to try to bring peace to the world.



Ha.  The world was at peace until Solomon rebelled.



> You mistake his indecisiveness as bad leadership but it's the opposite. The difference between him and the King Candidate's is that he is honestly interested in bettering the world and not in taking control of it. He is well aware that there are problems in him becoming king, and he is also aware that he has to take decisions. He is stuck in a difficult position.



And every single time he's faced with a difficult decision he waits for his cadre of friends to step in and tell him what to do.  He hasn't done anything half as bad ass as Alibaba telling En that kneeling on the ground is a prayer for a safe childbirth or En taking Aladdin as a hostage and not backing down for a moment from an otherwise unwinnable situation.


----------



## crystalblade13 (May 27, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> Actually, Sheba becoming Gyokuen does make the most sense _because it would be that tragic._  In the flashbacks to Alma Torran, the Magi who betrayed Solomon was always depicted as the one with the crescent moon staff - with the final nail in the coffin being chapter 193.
> 
> The entire Alma Torran arc has been about how that came about - showing who the Magi were before the end of Alma Torran, and before "Ren Gyokuen" betrayed Solomon.
> 
> Sheba is the one who possesses the crescent moon staff.



The fact that she has that staff makes it more likely that she ISNT gyokuen to me. theres a good chance that shinobu is trying to fake out the readers. I bet gyokuen ( likely arba imo ), takes shebas staff.


----------



## Stilzkin (May 27, 2014)

Wesley said:


> True, only 2 are confirmed, but do you really think there be more than one?  Ugo's enough...



There may be more than one. Ugo is out of the story maybe we will eventually get another back into it. Can't see both Arba and Sheba fighting against Solomon so one of them joined him even if they may be dead in current time.



> Al-Tharem doesn't push.  They make it clear who's decision it is to do whatever.  All they did with Cassim and his group was hand them weapons and tell them how to use them.  What they did from there was entirely their fault.  With Abmed, when the money ran out, it was his decision to put the people up for collateral.
> 
> If you give a guy enough rope to hang himself, who's really at fault?



Come on, Al Thamen isn't just giving people choices. They are clearly promoting people falling into deprivation. That is part of their goal. Simply getting people to escape the destiny Solomon put out for them would be fine but from what we have seen deprivation isn't good for the people.

If you give a person rope to hang themselves with the purpose of  incentivizing their suicide then yea, you are a horrible person.




> He's pushed to make decisions, but doesn't make decisions.  The revelation with the Rukh and the potential he see's there is the first time he's expressed anything like an original thought.



You mean aside from the huge decision to form a rebel group to free all the species from enslavement and all those smaller decisions that he must have made in the running of this said rebel group for whatever number of decades they have been at it?





> Ha.  The world was at peace until Solomon rebelled.



Most of the world living as slaves is not peace.




> And every single time he's faced with a difficult decision he waits for his cadre of friends to step in and tell him what to do.



He's been leading this group for quite a while. We are only seeing a few critical things in part of his life. Out of the leaders we have seen he is the one who has been in that role the longest.

The decisions you mention for other characters are minuscule compared to Solomon trying to decide what to do about the people who see him as a divine god.


----------



## Wesley (May 27, 2014)

Stilzkin said:


> There may be more than one. Ugo is out of the story maybe we will eventually get another back into it. Can't see both Arba and Sheba fighting against Solomon so one of them joined him even if they may be dead in current time.



Arba is probably Gyokouen and Sheba is dead.



> Come on, Al Thamen isn't just giving people choices. They are clearly promoting people falling into deprivation. That is part of their goal. Simply getting people to escape the destiny Solomon put out for them would be fine but from what we have seen deprivation isn't good for the people.
> 
> If you give a person rope to hang themselves with the purpose of  incentivizing their suicide then yea, you are a horrible person.



You need to admire the subtly with which they move and the fact that barely say a word one or another.  You can count the number of times they've moved  directly on one hand.  When they kidnapped Judar, when they killed the Emperor(s) in Kou, and when they attacked Sinbad.  Their goal is the destruction of the world, but they also want to prove something in doing so.



> You mean aside from the huge decision to form a rebel group to free all the species from enslavement and all those smaller decisions that he must have made in the running of this said rebel group for whatever number of decades they have been at it?



The Origin Dragon gave him that idea.



> Most of the world living as slaves is not peace.



Technically it is.



> He's been leading this group for quite a while. We are only seeing a few critical things in part of his life. Out of the leaders we have seen he is the one who has been in that role the longest.



It's easy to lead a rebel group when for all intents and purposes you're unstoppable and the other side is in fact letting you win.  Solomon and his buddies have had it darn easy up til now and the moment things are tough, Solomon just stood there looking sad.



> The decisions you mention for other characters are minuscule compared to Solomon trying to decide what to do about the people who see him as a divine god.



They're damn good examples of characters doing something clever to defuse a tense situation.  Solomon has never shown himself to be that clever.  He's a brute.  He's regarded as a god-like figure on no other basis than his power, the gratitude people feel towards him for freeing them, and the fact that his father is king of the world.

No one cares if he's actually a good king or a bad king.  They just want a king.


----------



## Catalyst75 (May 31, 2014)

Link removed


*Spoiler*: __ 



It looks like Papa David is finally taking to the field


.


----------



## ensoriki (Jun 1, 2014)

Crack theory.
Both Gyokuen and Aladdin are reincarnations of Solomon and Sheba. 
The child never survived.
Upon reincarnation Aladdin was kept in the holy temple by Ugo so he didn't age where as Gyokuen did as she came into the current world.


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## Dark (Jun 1, 2014)

ensoriki said:


> Crack theory.
> Both Gyokuen and Aladdin are reincarnations of Solomon and Sheba.
> The child never survived.
> Upon reincarnation Aladdin was kept in the holy temple by Ugo so he didn't age where as Gyokuen did as she came into the current world.



I actually find it more easy to agree with Aladdin being a reincarnation of Solomon rather than his child.


----------



## Markness (Jun 2, 2014)

I'm getting close to catching up with this manga. I initially shrugged it off but I gave it another look and I started marathoning it. It's become one of my current favorites since then. The feel of adventure and Shinobu Ohtaka's art keep me pulled in. The battle with the Medium in the Magnostadt arc was simply mind blowing and it'll be a challenge for Ohtaka to top it. 

My favorite characters would be Aladdin, Alibaba, Morgiana, Sinbad, Kougyoku, Hakuei (Partly because of Paimon), Yamraiha, Sharkkan, and Masrur.


----------



## Wesley (Jun 2, 2014)

Death flags!  Death flags every where!


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## Deleted member 73050 (Jun 3, 2014)

When is this shit flashback ending??


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## Wesley (Jun 3, 2014)

I disliked how irritated Fanan was with Sinbad in his chapter this week.  He hasn't even done anything really irritating.  I'd have preferred that she remain aloft and observant and in control.

Dragul's brother is a dick.  I hope he doesn't punish Fanan.  Also hope that the princess manages to survive the story into the present day.

I wonder if Hinahoho will miss with his spear and kill the other two?  Or if they'll sacrifice themselves to allow Jaffar to live?

Let's see, Ithan's brother is probably going to die.  The one kid is probably going to die (Solomon will not have left them with a Divine Staff to defend themselves).  Sheba identified her child as a boy.

I take it that the anti-magic field they're going to try and create will be the nail in their god's coffin.  We'll end up with a sword fight between Solomon and David just to show that Arba wasn't wasting her time in teaching him.  Honestly, I can't imagine the arc lasting more than 10 more chapters.

My advice to everyone is to appreciate the characters introduced in this arc, because we're going to see them again.


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Jun 3, 2014)

Vino said:


> When is this shit flashback ending??



Never.
This is the new Magi storyline. Alibaba and Aladdin were just the prologue.


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## Roman (Jun 3, 2014)

In all seriousness, it looks like it'll be another few weeks before we come back to the main story. Once David is out of the way, it's just a matter of finding out what happens to Sheba and Solomon creating the new world. Somehow, I think David had a hand in creating this world considering humans are the only ones with any sentience or ego.


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## Malvingt2 (Jun 3, 2014)

ensoriki said:


> Crack theory.
> Both Gyokuen and Aladdin are reincarnations of Solomon and Sheba.
> The child never survived.
> Upon reincarnation Aladdin was kept in the holy temple by Ugo so he didn't age where as Gyokuen did as she came into the current world.


 Sounds possible.



Wesley said:


> Death flags!  Death flags every where!



Yeah... Very obvious ones.


----------



## Roman (Jun 3, 2014)

ensoriki said:


> Crack theory.
> Both Gyokuen and Aladdin are reincarnations of Solomon and Sheba.
> The child never survived.
> Upon reincarnation Aladdin was kept in the holy temple by Ugo so he didn't age where as Gyokuen did as she came into the current world.



I'll be honest. I'd rather this be the case since other theories either sound too overused or too clich?.


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## ensoriki (Jun 3, 2014)

By all means if Sheba is surpressing her childs birth with magic, when magic gets cancelled she shouldn't be able to any longer.


----------



## Wesley (Jun 3, 2014)

ensoriki said:


> By all means if Sheba is surpressing her childs birth with magic, when magic gets cancelled she shouldn't be able to any longer.



Which isn't a problem since she's been suppressing his development.  He'll put on a few cells, no problem.


----------



## Black Knight (Jun 3, 2014)

So obvious who is the baby, so obvious. He has the looks of his father and the kind nature and borg of his mother.


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## Louis Cyphre (Jun 3, 2014)

Sheba's child was confirmed to be a boy. I wonder who he is


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## Wesley (Jun 3, 2014)

Black Knight said:


> So obvious who is the baby, so obvious. He has the looks of his father and the kind nature and borg of her mother.



No one has a Borg like Sheba.


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## Black Knight (Jun 3, 2014)

Wesley said:


> No one has a Borg like Sheba.



Oh, but he will, one day.


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## Louis Cyphre (Jun 3, 2014)

Wesley said:


> No one has a Borg like Sheba.


Gyokuen showed the ability to use Borg offensively tho


----------



## Wesley (Jun 3, 2014)

Louis Cyphre said:


> Gyokuen showed the ability to use Borg offensively tho



Yeah, I drew the comparison a month or so back, but it wasn't exactly clear cut.


----------



## Wesley (Jun 6, 2014)

Sinbad 27 is out early as well.

Link removed

I'm disappointed.  Sinbad seems unstoppable at this point and Al Tharem are incompetent weaklings.


----------



## Rai (Jun 6, 2014)

Magi 228 RAW: New chapter's out!


----------



## Catalyst75 (Jun 6, 2014)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Damn, it looks like David was smart enough to completely screw Solomon and everyone else over.  

It seems we now are seeing the origins of those Dolls that the Al-Thamen uses.


----------



## Kellogem (Jun 7, 2014)

*Spoiler*: __ 



such a shame that wasnt the real David.. that was a nice execution.


----------



## Stilzkin (Jun 8, 2014)

That was kind of predictable. They should have planned things better.


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Jun 8, 2014)

Arba/Gyokuen confirmed?


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## Malvingt2 (Jun 8, 2014)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> Arba/Gyokuen confirmed?



Maybe...Arba clearly a traitor?


----------



## Stilzkin (Jun 8, 2014)

Malvingt2 said:


> Maybe...Arba clearly a traitor?



Why? Because she killed David like Solomon was going to do?

That scene was suspicious and might have been foreshadowing something but the actual action was not traitorous or wrong to their cause.


----------



## Gunners (Jun 9, 2014)

Stilzkin said:


> Why? Because she killed David like Solomon was going to do?
> 
> That scene was suspicious and might have been foreshadowing something but the actual action was not traitorous or wrong to their cause.



More to do with her line, ''that's why I've been serving you for all these years''. I think it is hinting at her knowing the consequences of her actions.


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## Varg (Jun 9, 2014)

Gunners said:


> More to do with her line, ''that's why I've been serving you for all these years''. I think it is hinting at her knowing the consequences of her actions.



If she was indeed playing for David's side, it would make more sense to stall the fight with David? Coz now Solmon's army get much more time to deal with the cage. 

Then there's this page whose events should be happening chronologically after this war,why change the staff to Sheba's  if her own staff is safe too?


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## ClandestineSchemer (Jun 9, 2014)

Dude, the expression Arba had when she "killed" David.
It pretty much screamed evil to me.


----------



## Gunners (Jun 9, 2014)

Varg said:


> If she was indeed playing for David's side, it would make more sense to stall the fight with David? Coz now Solmon's army get much more time to deal with the cage.
> 
> Then there's this page whose events should be happening chronologically after this war,why change the staff to Sheba's  if her own staff is safe too?



It wouldn't have made sense to stall because Solomon suspected that something was a foul. Also no, Solomon is trapped meaning he cannot help his army on the outside.


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## Varg (Jun 9, 2014)

Gunners said:


> It wouldn't have made sense to stall because Solomon suspected that something was a foul.



Solomon thought something was off _because_ the opponents offered little resistance .He was rushing in to confront the council after that too.The council would  have presented the ideal opportunity to make it appear difficult if any ulterior motive was  present/if Arba had served Solomon all those years simply for helping David's purpose on that particular day.  



> Also no, Solomon is trapped meaning he cannot help his army on the outside.



They have got the power of about 60 staves with them iirc. Arba taking down the council so quickly gives them more time to work on the barrier from the _inside_. They might not reach the city in time, doesn't mean they won't try.


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## Butcher (Jun 9, 2014)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> Dude, the expression Arba had when she "killed" David.
> It pretty much screamed evil to me.


The face just screamed:

"I AM GYOUKEN!"


----------



## LordPerucho (Jun 9, 2014)

I wish there is a Magi live action movie in the future., if its handled like the Harry Potter movies, it could work. After all of the arcs is like Harry Potter....


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## crystalblade13 (Jun 9, 2014)

Vino said:


> When is this shit flashback ending??



What is it that you like about magi? personally, I like everything, but I especially appreciate the amound of thought and detail shinobu puts into her world, its aspects, and all of the forshadowing and hinting throughout the story. So, i'm going to point out some very important and relevent prospects of the story that this arc brings up.

-The origin of ren gyokuen, al tharmen, their "agenda", the dolls they use, and potentially the intro for future members

-An explenation of what rukh really is, its founder being ugo, and the origin of black rukh

-Finding out about how the djinn were created, how the different species are related to fully assimilated household members

-Discovering Aladdins beginings, how the room of solitude was made, why ugo became his gaurdian, and very likely, aladdins moms identity and story signifigance

-likely dicovering what the dungeons are, and how magi can make them appear

-altering the perception of the current casts opinion of the world, and setting up for future big events, especially with sinbad, considering his obvious relation with potential FV david

-And obviously, its just cool finding out the origins of magic, seeing how things operated differently then, how technology was more advanced, how god created the world, and how this (IMO) interesting cast of characters fought for, and tried to save this past world, before ultimately winding up destroying it.

So even if you only like the story for your attachments to the current cast, its politics, pairings or whatever, Its impossible to ignore the signifigance of this arc to the overall story. Ignoring the signifigance of the events of this arc seems like a huge disservice to the amount of thought and care shinobu has put into making this story fit together so perfectly.

but whatevs, just what i think.


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## Magnum Miracles (Jun 10, 2014)

Hello, my psycho little Gyouken .


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## Deleted member 73050 (Jun 10, 2014)

crystalblade13 said:


> What is it that you like about magi?



Tits                       .


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## Roman (Jun 10, 2014)

Varg said:


> They have got the power of about 60 staves with them iirc. Arba taking down the council so quickly gives them more time to work on the barrier from the _inside_. *They might not reach the city in time*, doesn't mean they won't try.



They prolly won't, meaning Arba really had no need to stall. By the looks of things, the barrier will be incredibly difficult to deal with. The fact that it was so easy to take over the capital should've rang some alarms tho.

And now even I'm starting to think Arba is Gyokuen.


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## Wesley (Jun 10, 2014)

So Arba was literally made to be Solomon's companion.  By a guy gifted with what amounts to foresight.  I don't think she is Gyokouen, but Arba isn't quite what she seems to them.  I think her encouraging Sheba to hook up with Solomon was an act of rebellion on Arba's part, but otherwise she is doing David's bidding.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Jun 11, 2014)

Gunners said:


> More to do with her line, ''that's why I've been serving you for all these years''. I think it is hinting at her knowing the consequences of her actions.



I think it might turn out to be worse than that.  As a "magician created by David", David might have been using Arba to listen in to Solomon's plans all of this time without her knowing it.

How else was he so well prepared for Solomon's attack on the center of the Orthodoxy?  He knew it would happen ahead of time through the eyes of one of Solomon's closest confidants, Arba.  Arba could essentially be to David what Titus was to Scheherazade - a "clone" of David himself.


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## Wesley (Jun 11, 2014)

You know, in a twisted sort of way their prayers were answered.  Solomon and company are perfectly safe.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Jun 12, 2014)

Vino said:


> Tits                       .



 Guess that explain why you hate this arc. Wait, no it wouldnt! Each of Falons boobs are bigger than her head.

But seriously though, what do ya feel you're missing out on with this arc? just curious.


----------



## Deleted member 73050 (Jun 12, 2014)

crystalblade13 said:


> Guess that explain why you hate this arc. Wait, no it wouldnt! Each of Falons boobs are bigger than her head.
> 
> But seriously though, what do ya feel you're missing out on with this arc? just curious.



I'll be honest. I always found the story of Solomon intruguing and wanted to know more, but now that I see what I see, it's just not interesting and it just makes me miss the regualr characters that we all know and love (Alibaba, Aladdin and Mor). The flashback started ages ago and it just doesn't end, and I feel it stayed it welcome far too long.


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## crystalblade13 (Jun 12, 2014)

Fair enough, I'm all good cause I do like the characters and I LOVE this arcs worldbuilding. I can understand your position though if you arent feeling the characters.


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## ensoriki (Jun 13, 2014)

World building?
Get me out please.
Where the fuck is Alibaba.

I am done with Juno and Micheal Cera here trying to fight the big bad daddy-o.


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## Deleted member 73050 (Jun 13, 2014)




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## Rai (Jun 13, 2014)

Magi 229 RAW: Link removed


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## Sphyer (Jun 13, 2014)




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## Catalyst75 (Jun 13, 2014)

I went to another site because I keep on being bugged by some intruding program.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Well, damn.  David and the Elders left no one alive at the encampment.


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## crystalblade13 (Jun 13, 2014)

ensoriki said:


> World building?
> Get me out please.
> Where the fuck is Alibaba.
> 
> I am done with Juno and Micheal Cera here trying to fight the big bad daddy-o.



So you dont care about the events that led the universe to become what it is, and you dont care about the goals of the villians? this isnt a series thats JUST about fighting, if ya want that, theres dragoball. hell, alibaba nor anyone else would exist if it wasnt for the events being covered here.

Its fine to miss your faves, (i wanna see ali, the kou's, sin, and the fanalis as much as the next guy) but once the story is complete, things are gonna look a hell of a lot better thanks to this arcs existence.

Besides for me, this arc is beautifully written.


----------



## ensoriki (Jun 14, 2014)

Finally some real drama. Hope this means its wrapping up.

No I don't care for this pace which is all too lengthy to me.
World building would have been fine if we still had the narration of Aladdin and/or external voices of everyone else at the summit lending their modern viewpoints ocassionally. 
I feel very removed in this situation.
I don't feel anything for the past chars which makes their smaller interactions boring. I don't feel for them because their development is rushed for the pacing sake yet at the same time the pacing of the actual plot has slowed down randomly at spots to attempt to add personality to characters their frankly isn't time for.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Jun 14, 2014)

Imo, the most important characters that werent around prior to this arc (solomon, arba, and sheba) have been developed very well and I very much care about them.

characters that seem like they're pointlessly being developed acually arent gonna dissapear after this arc. I'd bet money that falan and waheid will appear again as antagonists in the current world. isnan did. Setta and tess served their purposes of being the start of the fall of the prior characters i mentioned. 

Lastly, David is CLEARLY gonna resurface in the current world through either sinbad or other means, this arc was necessary to make us understand him and hate his guts prior to his arrival in the current timeline. if not it'd be like " AND HERE'S THIS GUY NO ONE KNOWS...HE'S FINALLY BACK!!! MWAHAHAHAH" And the readers would be like "so...whats the big deal?". 

Finally, we're getting to learn about ugo, why he is so special, and why he was with aladdin in the first place. I'm just saying that, in the grand scheme of things, this is one of the most important arcs in the series. It is absolutely essential to the big picture.


----------



## Shukumei (Jun 15, 2014)

crystalblade, Falan has already showed up as an al-Thamen magician linked with Parthevia in the Adventure of Sinbad spinoff.

I'll be annoyed if Falan and Ithnan turning is solely due to the loss of Tess and Setta - where's Solomon's "arrogance"? He'd better do something reckless and arrogant, like killing Ilah and changing the Rukh to create the Great White Flow and making every species look more human, and changing Alma Torran's "destiny." If it's not something like that but only "we lost our loved ones because David killed them and now we CAN'T FORGIVE SOLOMON" I will be severely disappointed.


----------



## GIORNO (Jun 15, 2014)

So I'm currently playing catch-up in Magi.

Wow, Sheba has become awesome.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Jun 15, 2014)

Shukumei said:


> crystalblade, Falan has already showed up as an al-Thamen magician linked with Parthevia in the Adventure of Sinbad spinoff.
> 
> I'll be annoyed if Falan and Ithnan turning is solely due to the loss of Tess and Setta - where's Solomon's "arrogance"? He'd better do something reckless and arrogant, like killing Ilah and changing the Rukh to create the Great White Flow and making every species look more human, and changing Alma Torran's "destiny." If it's not something like that but only "we lost our loved ones because David killed them and now we CAN'T FORGIVE SOLOMON" I will be severely disappointed.



im caught up on that too, and i knew she was in it. I was refering to the main story though. speaking of that, I know its a different artist in the sinbad story, but it's wierd that she has medium-small boobs in that, lol. On a sidenote, i hope the sinbad story picks up and becomes as epic as the main story, even though i can understand why it wouldnt. 

Also, I'm sure this is just the start of the bad shit, this is shinobu afterall. besides, if she can make mogametts turnover as well written and perfect as she did, then I have faith in her to do everything in the best possible way here as well. 

I miss mogamett, he was one of my faves for sure. his story was so amazing but sad


----------



## Shukumei (Jun 16, 2014)

I had assumed that Falan hasn't shown up in the main series because she will be taken out of commission permanently (like Ithnan was) sometime during the Sinbad spinoff. Shit is going to go down in Parthevia eventually, and the members of al-Thamen there probably won't come out of it unscathed, especially once Sinbad gets angry at them.


----------



## Ftg07 (Jun 16, 2014)

Damn such a dark chapter


----------



## Malvingt2 (Jun 16, 2014)

They were late  ..... So the way Solomon influenced people=Solomon Wisdom?


----------



## Stilzkin (Jun 16, 2014)

Shukumei said:


> I had assumed that Falan hasn't shown up in the main series because she will be taken out of commission permanently (like Ithnan was) sometime during the Sinbad spinoff. Shit is going to go down in Parthevia eventually, and the members of al-Thamen there probably won't come out of it unscathed, especially once Sinbad gets angry at them.



It's kind of disappointing seeing these characters get so easily taken out by Sinbad after this flashback.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Jun 16, 2014)

she was just a doll. she's still alive, and the main bodies are more powerful.


----------



## GIORNO (Jun 16, 2014)

Magi is getting really good.

Dat Ugo. Dat Solomon.


----------



## Rax (Jun 16, 2014)

Poor kid 

Well anyways...


----------



## Kuromaku (Jun 16, 2014)

See Kishimoto. That's how you convey the horrors of war on noncombatants and their loved ones. Not unexpected, and seeing Ugo's importance conveyed will be important, but damn, way to mock the good guys' efforts.


----------



## Brian (Jun 17, 2014)

That was pretty dark, it doesn't matter how strong you are all it takes is a little to lose everything


----------



## Santí (Jun 17, 2014)

Like gravity, it only takes a little push.


----------



## GIORNO (Jun 17, 2014)

Did anyone else notice Sheba is Gyokuen?


----------



## Santí (Jun 17, 2014)

Gyokuen is obviously Arba.


----------



## Imagine (Jun 17, 2014)

Tess


----------



## GIORNO (Jun 17, 2014)

Nope. 

Gyokuen: 

Sheba: 

1.) They look the same.
2.) They have the same wand.
3.) Sheba was the one closest to Solomon which is why he asked her if she really believed that his dream was extraordinary because that's what she just said like 3 chapters back here: Ch.128

Arba is the woman beside Ugo:  (note the hair)

Same here as here: 



I can't believe I called this shit at the beginning of the arc when she was first introduced.


----------



## Santí (Jun 17, 2014)

нιѕσкα said:


> Nope.
> 
> Gyokuen:
> 
> ...



Ever read up on what a red herring is?

Based on context clues which I'm far too lazy to tl;dr about at 1:40 AM, the only possible way for Sheba to be Ren Gyokuen is:

A) Sheba is Alibaba's mother.
B) a Ret-con in Gyokuen's character.

And I consider the probability of any of these two things being nil.


----------



## GIORNO (Jun 17, 2014)

Sant? said:


> Ever read up on what a red herring is?



Yeah, the Red Herring is what Arba playing the bad guy in the current storyline is. It's to make Arba seem like she's Gyokuen when in reality it's actually Sheba, the one who seems to be good making people think there's no way it could be her.

EDIT: 

How would it be a ret-con?

How would that make her Alibaba's mother?

Aladdin knew about her from Solomon's Wisdom and that she was someone who served under Solomon.

>has the same wand
>both are fanatics
>same appearance
<arba and gyokuen have different hairstyles
<girl with ugo looks older than girl with Solomon
>sheba was the closest to Solomon, same applies to the first thing of Sheba I linked


----------



## Santí (Jun 17, 2014)

нιѕσкα said:


> Yeah, the Red Herring is what Arba playing the bad guy in the current storyline is. It's to make Arba seem like she's Gyokuen when in reality it's actually Sheba, the one who seems to be good making people think there's no way it could be her.



Everyone _unanimously_ thought Sheba was Gyokuen since introduction, it was only until Arba and Sheba had their discussion did people first start pointing out the other possibility. There's enough evidence on both ends to point out possible red herrings, but I believe Sheba's over-weights Arba's.



нιѕσкα said:


> How would it be a ret-con?



The idea basically centers around the idea that Aladdin is indeed the child of Solomon and Sheba, which is technically unconfirmed, but the probability is good enough to bet my chips on it. 

My point the massive difference in how Gyokuen addresses and speaks of Aladdin
Compared to how she does so with the Hakuuryu, both technically being her "children".
And other cases I can remember of her speaking to her other children.
She doesn't address or speak to Aladdin the way she does one of her children
Despite being a psychotic and crazy mother, there's still a hint of a motherly tone
One that is completely absent with Aladdin

Perhaps ret-con wouldn't be the correct word, but it would definitely be a break in character.



нιѕσкα said:


> How would that make her Alibaba's mother?



That clearly wasn't intended to be taken seriously. It was a joke that jibed on the obvious fact that Sheba is almost guaranteed to mother Aladdin, and the only way I can see any reasoning to what I mentioned above is if she's Alibaba's mother (which, again, is an exaggerated joke)



нιѕσкα said:


> Aladdin knew about her from Solomon's Wisdom and that she was someone who served under Solomon.



I'm not quite certain what this has to do with my point.



нιѕσкα said:


> >has the same wand



It's a wand, a tool, _anyone_ can take it and hold it. Again, that's a clear bait from the author. People get too familiar with a weapon/tool belonging to a certain particular someone and start drawing relations due to that. It happens all the time.



нιѕσкα said:


> <arba and gyokuen have different hairstyles



Gyokuen, Arba, and Sheba all have pretty damn different hairstyles between...

Ch.128





You would have to be intentionally disregarding a lot of details to say it couldn't really go either way when it comes to the hair.



нιѕσкα said:


> <girl with ugo looks older than girl with Solomon



>Magicians can accelerate and slow their cellular destruction at will

top lel



нιѕσкα said:


> >sheba was the closest to Solomon, same applies to the first thing of Sheba I linked



Okay.


----------



## GIORNO (Jun 17, 2014)

Sant? said:


> Everyone _unanimously_ thought Sheba was Gyokuen since introduction, it was only until Arba and Sheba had their discussion did people first start pointing out the other possibility,



Maybe on NF, but everywhere else I've been hasn't put two and two together and that is the conversation where the Red Herring makes it look like Arba will become Gyokuen whereas I maintain it's still going to be Sheba because 1.) she's having Solomon's baby (Aladdin was "created" in Solomon's image as Solomon's Proxy) 2.) she's already treading on the line of fanaticism in regards to Solomon 3.) I don't think you're correct about the wands, each divine staff had their own respective wand, the one Gyokuen has was Sheba's. 



Sant? said:


> The idea basically centers around the idea that Aladdin is indeed the child of Solomon and Sheba, which is technically unconfirmed, but the probability is good enough to bet my chips on it.
> 
> My point the massive difference in how Gyokuen addresses and speaks of Aladdin
> Compared to how she does so with the Hakuuryu, both technically being her "children".
> ...



Well yes, it makes sense. 1.) he looks exactly like Solomon did when he was a kid, 2.) he has a playful/wanting to learn everything nature that Solomon had 3.) it's already been implied that he is Solomon's kid as I previously stated and 4.) she is currently slowing down the birthing process of Aladdin until the world is a good place for him to live in: 1.) currently you can tell that the world is not meant for him to be birthed in and we REALLY don't know how Solomon vs. David is going to go 2.) she could have still been holding him in the flash forward scene where we see all of the divine staves bar Gyokuen look scared/sad/fearful. 5.) as I said, she was the one to console Solomon and make him believe that everything he is doing is for the best and is good which is exactly what the girl in the flashforward did. Also, Solomon told Arba to find a man to fall in love with and also told Ugo to find someone to love, if this doesn't scream ship IDK what does. 

That's somewhat vague though I do understand why you see that as a character flaw. I don't really see the problem with it considering she's conniving to begin with. She already knows who he is, her schemes won't work on him because he knows the truth and well, just isn't the type to fall into depravity.

Also, it seems like whatever happens between right now in the flashback and where the flashforward started, something really bad happens. All of them look like some serious shit went down and they either don't trust Solomon or they don't trust Sheba (well the girl I'm saying is Sheba). 



Sant? said:


> That clearly wasn't intended to be taken seriously. It was a joke that jibed on the obvious fact that Sheba is almost guaranteed to mother Aladdin, and the only way I can see any reasoning to what I mentioned above is if she's Alibaba's mother (which, again, is an exaggerated joke)



Oh. So with this said I don't see why you disagree with me. Arba (well the woman hugging Ugo) seems like she's very close to Ugo, almost in a romantic sense, she also has the figure of Arba and as I said maintains the same hairstyle (regardless if you think this is irrelevant). The girl I think is Sheba is still significantly younger (I'm pretty sure you can't regress your age into a younger state, you can only slow it down so you don't age as quickly) looking than the one hugging Ugo which is why again, I believe her to be Sheba as Sheba is younger looking than Arba.



Sant? said:


> It's a wand, a tool, _anyone_ can take it and hold it. Again, that's a clear bait from the author. People get too familiar with a weapon/tool belonging to a certain particular someone and start drawing relations due to that. It happens all the time.



Not really, it's more like foreshadowing. We've never seen a Divine Staff use another's wand so it's asinine to think they would do that. 



Sant? said:


> Gyokuen, Arba, and Sheba all have pretty damn different hairstyles between...
> 
> Ch.128
> 
> ...



Gyokuen and Sheba have different hairstyles, Arba has the same one in the flashforward as she does in the flashback, that's what I was getting at.



Sant? said:


> >Magicians can accelerate and slow their cellular destruction at will
> 
> top lel



They can't reverse the aging process... Unless you want to give me a panel where a Magician has done this.


----------



## Santí (Jun 17, 2014)

I'm going to wait until next week to get any further into this, because I'm about to go to sleep and Sheba's reaction to the current calamity may be one of the largest deciding factors in the argument; however...



нιѕσкα said:


> They can't reverse the aging process... Unless you want to give me a panel where a Magician has done this.



The post you yourself quoted used "slow" and "accelerate" as words, I see nowhere in that quote even endorsing so much as an implication of reversal or regression 

What this implies is that, the magicians have strong control on how fast they want to age, there's no reason to believe that Sheba and Arba are aging at the same exact rate, when one decided to make herself appear older by accelerating the aging process again for a period of time before slowing it down once more, whereas the other could have consistently been keeping the same speed for the entire time. 

If this were to occur, the younger magician can and would most definitely appear older.


----------



## GIORNO (Jun 17, 2014)

Sant? said:


> I'm going to wait until next week to get any further into this, because I'm about to go to sleep and Sheba's reaction tonthe current calamity may be one of the largest factor; however...
> 
> 
> 
> The post you yourself quoted used "slow" and "accelerate" as words, I see nowhere in that quote even endorsing so much as an implication of reversal or regression



Yeah, I don't blame you, right now you and I can only use our interpretations of what we've seen so far to induce why we're right and well... Our opinions can both be either right or wrong in the end.

So you concede that Arba reversing her age (looking younger like the girl who consoled Solomon did) is impossible, correct?


----------



## Santí (Jun 17, 2014)

нιѕσкα said:


> So you concede that Arba reversing her age (looking younger like the girl who consoled Solomon did) is impossible, correct?



Concede?



> 1.
> admit that something is true or valid after first denying or resisting it.



What for? That was never something I said our argued in favor for.

I wouldn't say it's /impossible/, Ugo and Solomon have proven that "impossibilities" in Magic are only theories which no one has had the power to perform. With enough amount of h4x power and knowledge, I'm positive that it could be done to some degree.

But I don't think age-reversal was what happened here. Or anything even close to it.

I edited my post to explain how Sheba could possibly appear older than Arba, which also applies to other magicians.


----------



## GIORNO (Jun 17, 2014)

Sant? said:


> I edited my post to explain how Sheba could possibly appear older than Arba, which also applies to other magicians.



No that makes sense, Sheba's body aging to a level where she looks older than Arba, that still doesn't explain how Arba could make her body look like Sheba's as one clearly looks younger than the other and the one I'm claiming to be Sheba looks younger than the Arba we know in the flashback meaning her looking younger in the flash forward is nigh impossible assuming age reversal is also impossible (it's never been shown in the story thus far so we'd have to assume it was possible for Arba to be the one talking to Solomon).

We'll see soon enough anyway. Neither had moles in the flash forward which would be a dead giveaway as to who Gyokuen is.


----------



## GIORNO (Jun 17, 2014)

I just realized something.

Why were Falan and Ithnan working for Al Tharmen? This is seriously suspicious...


----------



## Rax (Jun 17, 2014)

Wait, it never occurred to them to leave some strong folk home for defense?


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Jun 17, 2014)

Red Hero said:


> Wait, it never occurred to them to leave some strong folk home for defense?




They got arrogant, since they were steam rolling the enemy in all their battles.
They didn't know elder David didn't give a darn about those battles, so they were caught off guard, when he actually decided to fight back.


----------



## steveht93 (Jun 17, 2014)

Dat boy got extra crispy. Fancy!


----------



## Wesley (Jun 17, 2014)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> They got arrogant, since they were steam rolling the enemy in all their battles.
> They didn't know elder David didn't give a darn about those battles, so they were caught off guard, when he actually decided to fight back.



No, they weren't arrogant at all.  They sincerely believed they'd need every scrap of power they had to overcome the Capital.  Leaving Setta and the Divine Staff behind was the only allowance because they probably didn't want to leave their families completely undefended.

If anything, Solomon and company were blind to the fact that they haven't endured much opposition up to this point.  If David wasn't concerned at all about the world being torn out from under him, why would he care if the capital was also lost?  They don't understand his goals or mindset at all, but they are deathly afraid of him regardless.

Anyway, Sheba will die, Aladdin will be the traitor Magi, and Arba will also betray Solomon, after Aladdin is put down.


----------



## GIORNO (Jun 17, 2014)

How will Aladdin be the traitor Magi...?


----------



## Wesley (Jun 17, 2014)

нιѕσкα said:


> How will Aladdin be the traitor Magi...?



Don't know.  That's the whole point to this flashback.

As for why I think he will be, it's because Aladdin has no significance.  He has no personal goals or motivations.  He is completely faultless.  He has never made any mistakes.  He's never suffered consequences.

He's in desperate need of something to make him interesting.  Him being the one to destroy an entire world would do that.


----------



## GIORNO (Jun 17, 2014)

So basically him being the traitor Magi makes absolutely no sense at all, you just want him to be the traitor because he's a Mary Sue?


----------



## Santí (Jun 17, 2014)

Next level crack theories in the Magi thread.

Stay tuned for more at 11:00.


----------



## GIORNO (Jun 17, 2014)

Sant? said:


> Next level crack theories in the Magi thread.
> 
> Stay tuned for more at 11:00.



That's in 6 minutes.


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Jun 17, 2014)

Wesley said:


> No, they weren't arrogant at all.  They sincerely believed they'd need every scrap of power they had to overcome the Capital.  Leaving Setta and the Divine Staff behind was the only allowance because they probably didn't want to leave their families completely undefended.
> 
> If anything, Solomon and company were blind to the fact that they haven't endured much opposition up to this point.  If David wasn't concerned at all about the world being torn out from under him, why would he care if the capital was also lost?  They don't understand his goals or mindset at all, but they are deathly afraid of him regardless.
> 
> Anyway, Sheba will die, Aladdin will be the traitor Magi, and Arba will also betray Solomon, after Aladdin is put down.



Actually they were arrogant.
They had the entire world under their control and yet they brought their families practically to the battlefront.
If they wanted to go all offensive like you said, they should have left them far away from the single city under the enemies control.

But they didn't even think the enemies would be able to mount a counter offensive, so they only left Seta to keep the civilians calm.
Your Alladin theory is pure lol, but your hatred for him is well known.
So its expected.


----------



## Stilzkin (Jun 17, 2014)

нιѕσкα said:


> I just realized something.
> 
> Why were Falan and Ithnan working for Al Tharmen? This is seriously suspicious...



Why is that suspicious?

We know Al Thamen is a groups that stems from a division that split off from Solomon's group. Furthermore we know that people had agreed that they would oppose Solomon if he ever went too far. Solomon has had differing ideas to the rest of the group this whole flashback so we have some idea what is going to happen. His real feelings about things are going to be expressed when he finally decides to do something with the ruhk and Al Thamen will be born.


----------



## GIORNO (Jun 17, 2014)

Stilzkin said:


> Why is that suspicious?
> 
> We know Al Thamen is a groups that stems from a division that split off from Solomon's group. Furthermore we know that people had agreed that they would oppose Solomon if he ever went too far. Solomon has had differing ideas to the rest of the group this whole flashback so we have some idea what is going to happen. His real feelings about things are going to be expressed when he finally decides to do something with the ruhk and Al Thamen will be born.



Because it's Ithnan and Falan of all people. These two seemed to be two of the more loyal members of Solomon's group. I can understand why they left though, Falan lost her son and Ithnan his brother but still... I mean even in the flash-forward they're still by his side (albeit they seem very... different to say the least). 

I don't recall if we know this or not yet, but is their "Father" Ill Illah or David? I can't tell whose side their on aside from being on the opposite side of Solomon.


----------



## B Rabbit (Jun 17, 2014)

Still waiting for Alibaba.


----------



## GIORNO (Jun 17, 2014)

I can't wait for Alibaba to get character development... Hopefully Sin and Kouen get some as well. 

I also want Morgiana to get character development, she's my fav in the series.


----------



## Stilzkin (Jun 17, 2014)

нιѕσкα said:


> Because it's Ithnan and Falan of all people. These two seemed to be two of the more loyal members of Solomon's group. I can understand why they left though, Falan lost her son and Ithnan his brother but still... I mean even in the flash-forward they're still by his side (albeit they seem very... different to say the least).
> 
> I don't recall if we know this or not yet, but is their "Father" Ill Illah or David? I can't tell whose side their on aside from being on the opposite side of Solomon.



Their "father" is Ill Ilah, that's the being/thing they believe is god.

It's Solomon's most loyal members who agreed to fight against him.

I don't think we should believe that their losses is the cause for their betrayal. Probably a motivator in giving them the conviction they require to finish what they started but that's the thing. As far as we know Al Thamen is a group that thinks that it is continuing with the ideals that they had when they were fighting with Solomon. To them Solomon is the one who betrayed them.

There seems to be three sides. Solomon's group, Al Thamen, and David's. David probably knew all this would happen and has been manipulating Solomon into enacting what ever the betrayal is. Solomon's and David's intended outcomes are different though.


----------



## GIORNO (Jun 17, 2014)

Stilzkin said:


> Their "father" is Ill Ilah, that's the being/thing they believe is god.
> 
> It's Solomon's most loyal members who agreed to fight against him.
> 
> ...



Yes but that's why I don't understand how Ugo didn't fight against him (to our knowledge considering he became a Djinn). Ugo had to have been his absolute most loyal and trusting friend. 

Not cause for a betrayal, but just starting them on the path of depravity. I mean losing your son and (most likely) your brother... That has to effect you negatively psychologically, especially the way Falan and Tess departed, him saying he doesn't care if she comes back and shit. That could be. 

I think David's group and Al Thamen are the same thing though. David said he was on "God's side", God being Ill Illah, the same "Father" Al Thamen worship. 

David said that even if Solomon doesn't realize what David is saying, he will understand it. I think this is where the creation of Al Thamen will become apparent because in order to create the New World (the one the current storyline is taking place in) he would have to follow in David's steps which is why his companions probably left him to go for Al Thamen or stay with him and become Djinn for the New World. David's entire purpose was to make Solomon create the New World which would inevitably become a Utopia and once this happens, David will essentially become God's equal because he was the one who started this snowball effect by making Solomon oppose him and create the New World. 

Al Thamen probably misinterpret everything David wanted Solomon to realize and by the time Solomon realized it to make the New World, they betrayed him. From their perspective Solomon was doing it wrong, but that's because they already lost sight of what Solomon needed to do so in reality, it wasn't really Solomon who betrayed them.


----------



## B Rabbit (Jun 17, 2014)

нιѕσкα said:


> I can't wait for Alibaba to get character development... Hopefully Sin and Kouen get some as well.
> 
> I also want Morgiana to get character development, she's my fav in the series.



I don't care for Sinbad.


----------



## Wesley (Jun 17, 2014)

For those of you that missed it, Tess was quite dead when Fanan found him, but probably through some magic trick his corpse repeated his last words for her to hear.  David is sadistic as fuck.



ClandestineSchemer said:


> Actually they were arrogant.
> They had the entire world under their control and yet they brought their families practically to the battlefront.
> If they wanted to go all offensive like you said, they should have left them far away from the single city under the enemies control.



What makes you think their base was at all close by?  The settlement seemed to be quite permanent, complete with buildings and towers.  Tess and company weren't located on a nearby hill.

And you're right, they had the entire world under their control.  Meaning David had no where to go but to remain in the capital as far as they were aware.  It was the last battle by every indication.



> Your Alladin theory is pure lol, but your hatred for him is well known.
> So its expected.



My gut tells me this is what's going to happen.  Sheba will die.  Arba is Gyokuen.  Aladdin is the third Magi from the flashbacks.

And as for the why Solomon was betrayed.  He's a godless lil' fucker when everyone else in the setting regularly prayers to god.


----------



## GIORNO (Jun 17, 2014)

B Rabbit said:


> I don't care for Sinbad.



What? Sinbad is one of the best characters in the story.


----------



## Wesley (Jun 17, 2014)

нιѕσкα said:


> What? Sinbad is one of the best characters in the story.



He's a bit of a douchebag.


----------



## GIORNO (Jun 17, 2014)

Wesley said:


> He's a bit of a douchebag.



Yes but that's part of what makes him good. He has that air of superiority because he knows he's the King.


----------



## Wesley (Jun 17, 2014)

нιѕσкα said:


> Yes but that's part of what makes him good. He has that air of superiority because he knows he's the King.



He doesn't have an air of superiority.  He was butt naked after being mugged by a bumbling trio of brother bandits.


----------



## GIORNO (Jun 17, 2014)

Wesley said:


> He doesn't have an air of superiority.  He was butt naked after being mugged by a bumbling trio of brother bandits.



And? That was one scene vs. all the others where he's condescending as fuck and acts like the King because he's the King. I mean just look at the way he entered the war and acted like Kouen was a pleb compared to him and the 7SA.


----------



## Shukumei (Jun 17, 2014)

I like prequel-Sinbad a lot better, before he became wily and ruthless. And it will remain to be seen what connection he has with David. 

As for Gyokuen, I'm leaning towards her being Sheba, but there are some things that don't make as much sense, like how Gyokuen refers to Ithnan as a boy compared to her, when in Alma Torran Ithnan was older than Sheba, but much younger than Arba.


----------



## Butcher (Jun 17, 2014)

нιѕσкα said:


> I also want Morgiana to get character development, she's my fav in the series.


I really hate Mor gets side lined hard .

As one of the mains, she doesn't deserve that.


----------



## GIORNO (Jun 17, 2014)

Butcher said:


> I really hate Mor gets side lined hard .
> 
> As one of the mains, she doesn't deserve that.



Truuust me, I feel you. She's my favourite female character in all of manga. She not only gets sidelined, but rarely gets character development which bothers me. Sheba seems like a better version of Mor atm and that really bugs me.


----------



## Wesley (Jun 17, 2014)

Butcher said:


> I really hate Mor gets side lined hard .
> 
> As one of the mains, she doesn't deserve that.



She does get development.  It just happens off-panel.  She apparently met and trained with all the different Household users from the different Alliance nations.  Morgiana has seen more of the world than Alibaba and Aladdin...combined.


----------



## Kellogem (Jun 17, 2014)

what a cruel chapter.. even though half of it was Solomon and Ugo sucking each others dick, I had my hopes up they manage to break out in time, but in the end...shit. depressing.. poor aru. I wonder if she is going to blame Solomon.


----------



## GIORNO (Jun 17, 2014)

Kell?gem said:


> what a cruel chapter.. even though half of it was Solomon and Ugo sucking each others dick, I had my hopes up they manage to break out in time, but in the end...shit. depressing.. poor aru. I wonder if she is going to blame Solomon.



Well we already know she's with Al-Thamen, so she probably blames Solomon for something at the very least.


----------



## Kellogem (Jun 17, 2014)

нιѕσкα said:


> Well we already know she's with Al-Thamen, so she probably blames Solomon for something at the very least.



really? I dont remember seeing her in Al Thamen... when was that?


----------



## GIORNO (Jun 17, 2014)

Kell?gem said:


> really? I dont remember seeing her in Al Thamen... when was that?



In Sinbad's side story.

Also, we saw Ithnan awhile back when he was fighting Sinbad in the current storyline.


----------



## Kellogem (Jun 17, 2014)

нιѕσкα said:


> In Sinbad's side story.
> 
> Also, we saw Ithnan awhile back when he was fighting Sinbad in the current storyline.



yeah, I remember Ithnan (it would be hard not to since he was kind of a boss)..

by Sindbad side story you mean the Sindbad manga? ..didnt really read all of that..


----------



## GIORNO (Jun 17, 2014)

Kell?gem said:


> yeah, I remember Ithnan (it would be hard not to since he was kind of a boss)..
> 
> by Sindbad side story you mean the Sindbad manga? ..didnt really read all of that..



Yeeeah, that he was no doubt.

Mhmm, Sinbad no Bouken, it's pretty good. You should read it if you get the chance, it really helps to explain who Sinbad is and why he becomes who he becomes.


----------



## Butcher (Jun 17, 2014)

нιѕσкα said:


> Truuust me, I feel you. She's my favourite female character in all of manga. She not only gets sidelined, but rarely gets character development which bothers me. Sheba seems like a better version of Mor atm and that really bugs me.


Nah, looks like you feelin' harder than I am due to her being your favorite female in all of manga.

Also, I agree with Sheba being a better version of Mor too. imo, much better actually. 

Sheba is probably my favorite of this series, next to Solomon. They switch a lot though .


----------



## GIORNO (Jun 17, 2014)

Butcher said:


> Nah, looks like you feelin' harder than I am due to her being your favorite female in all of manga.
> 
> Also, I agree with Sheba being a better version of Mor too. imo, much better actually.
> 
> Sheba is probably my favorite of this series, next to Solomon. They switch a lot though .



Haha, just a bit.  I fell in love with her (I know that must sound so lame) the first time I saw her.

It really, REALLY pains me to say this, but I agree.

Ironically my top two are Mor and Aladdin.


----------



## Wesley (Jun 17, 2014)

She'll probably never say aru again.


----------



## GIORNO (Jun 17, 2014)

Wesley said:


> She'll probably never say aru again.



Wow... That's pretty funny you say that 'cause she doesn't say Aru or over use like. She becomes almost one-dimensional.


----------



## Kellogem (Jun 17, 2014)

wtf is an aru anyway? is it something like "dattebayo" or "oro"?

she said it when she thought her child died, even if it was not sure at that point, so I dont think she is going to drop it..

is the father going to become an Al Thamen member too?


----------



## GIORNO (Jun 17, 2014)

Kell?gem said:


> wtf is an aru anyway? is it something like "dattebayo" or "oro"?
> 
> she said it when she thought her child died, even if it was not sure at that point, so I dont think she is going to drop it..
> 
> is the father going to become an Al Thamen member too?





TL;DR for me so I didn't read it.

Well she has dropped it in Sin's story. 

David?


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Jun 17, 2014)

Kell?gem said:


> is the father going to become an Al Thamen member too?



Probably not.
Its more of a drama, that way.


----------



## Kellogem (Jun 17, 2014)

нιѕσкα said:


> David?



I meant the father of their now deceased child..

they must have awesome parties at Al Thamen, half of Solomons crew joined already..


----------



## GIORNO (Jun 17, 2014)

Kell?gem said:


> I meant the father of their now deceased child..
> 
> they must have awesome parties at Al Thamen, half of Solomons crew joined already..



Oh, you mean Wahid.

We've yet to see him in the current storyline yet. I think he became a Djinn meaning he stayed with Solomon.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Jun 17, 2014)

djinn are all named in the bibles " key of solomon " (besides ugo, but he's special). So wahid will either die or join al thamen. We havnt seen a ton of members, so it'd be good if one of the next ones revealed was a familiar face.

On a sidenote, it's awesome to see so much discussion on magi, makes me fuzzy inside. on an extra side note, how the hell does anyone dislike sinbad?


----------



## GIORNO (Jun 18, 2014)

crystalblade13 said:


> djinn are all named in the bibles " key of solomon " (besides ugo, but he's special). So wahid will either die or join al thamen. We havnt seen a ton of members, so it'd be good if one of the next ones revealed was a familiar face.
> 
> On a sidenote, it's awesome to see so much discussion on magi, makes me fuzzy inside. on an extra side note, how the hell does anyone dislike sinbad?



Is that something from our world? Meaning in the "Key of Solomon" there's Valefor, Baal, Amon, Paimon, etc and Wahid isn't included in that? If that's the case, I hope he dies. It would be lame if both him and Falan joined the Al-Thamen. We know he lives at least long enough until the flash-forward takes place.

I knooow right! Sinbad is awesome.


----------



## Arcana (Jun 18, 2014)

Damn did not expect that, now where did David go.


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Jun 18, 2014)

нιѕσкα said:


> Is that something from our world? Meaning in the "Key of Solomon" there's Valefor, Baal, Amon, Paimon, etc and Wahid isn't included in that? If that's the case, I hope he dies. It would be lame if both him and Falan joined the Al-Thamen. We know he lives at least long enough until the flash-forward takes place.



Yeah, its from our world.

King Solomon was given a ring from god by the archangel Michael, that enabled him to control demons. 
He used it to make the demons build his famous temple and other fun stuff.
Some time later Solomon fell in love with a  Shunammite woman and agreed to worship Remphan and Moloch. The Spirit of God then abandoned him, he is made to look like a fool and his name became a joke to both humans and demons.

That woman must have been something, if he decided mess with God,  despite knowing his power first hand.

Anyway the enslaved demons and their titles were:


*Spoiler*: __ 



1. Baal - King

2. Agares - Duke

3. Vassago - Prince

4. Gamygyn - Marquis

5. Marbas - AKA Barbas - President

6. Valefor - AKA Malaphar - Duke

7. Amon - Marquis

8. Barbatos - Count and Duke

9. Paimon - King

10. Buer - President

11. Gusion - AKA Gusayn - Duke

12. Sytry - AKA Byleth - King

13. Beleth - AKA Byleth - King

14. Lerajie - Marquis

15. Eligor - Duke

16. Zepar - Duke

17. Botis - President & Earl

18. Bathin - AKA Bathym, Marthim - Duke

19. Saleos - AKA Zaleos - Duke

20. Purson - AKA Curson - King

21. Morax - AKA Foraii, Forfax - Earl & President

22. Ipos - AKA Ipes, Ayporos, Aypeos - Earl & Prince

23. Aini - AKA Aym, Haborym - Duke

24. Naberius - AKA Cerberus - Marquis




*Spoiler*: __ 



25. Glasyalabolas - AKA Caacrinolaas, Caassimola - President

26. Bune - Duke

27. Ronobe - AKA Roneve, Ronove - Marquis & Earl

28. Berith - AKA Beal, Berith, Bofi, Bolfry - Duke

29. Astaroth - Duke

30. Forneus - Marquis

31. Foras - AKA Forcas - President

32. Asmoday - AKA Sydonay - King

33. Gaap - AKA Tap, Goap - President & Prince

34. Furfur - Earl

35. Marchosias - Marquis

36. Solas - AKA Stolas - Prince

37. Phoenix - Marquis

38. Halpas - Earl

39. Malpas - President

40. Raum - Earl

41. Focalor or - Duke

42. Sabnack - AKA Saburac - Marquis

43. Vepar - AKA Separ - Duke

44. Shax - AKA Chax, Scox - Marquis

45. Vine - King

46. Bifrons - Earl

47. Vual - Duke

48. Hagenti - President




*Spoiler*: __ 



49. Procel - AKA Pucel - Duke

50. Furcas - Duke

51. Balam - King

52. Allocen - AKA Alloien, Allocer - Duke

53. Caim - President

54. Murmur - Duke & Earl

55. Orobas - Prince

56. Gomory - Duke

57. Ose - President

58. Amy - President

59. Orias - Marquis

60. Vapula - Duke

61. Zagan - King & President

62. Valac - President

63. Andras - Marquis

64. Flauros - Duke

65. Andrealphus - Marquis

66. Cimeries - Marquis

67. Amduscias - Duke

68. Belial - King

69. Decarabia - Marquis

70. Seere - Prince

71. Dantalian - Duke

72. Andromalius - Duke & Earl


----------



## GIORNO (Jun 18, 2014)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> Yeah, its from our world.
> 
> King Solomon was given a ring from god by the archangel Michael, that enabled him to control demons.
> He used it to make the demons build his famous temple and other fun stuff.
> ...



Thanks a lot for this bro, 'tis really informative.


----------



## Magnum Miracles (Jun 18, 2014)

That was some dark shit .


----------



## Rai (Jun 20, 2014)

Magi 230 RAW: Chapter 164


----------



## ensoriki (Jun 20, 2014)

Sweet its accelerated even further.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Jun 20, 2014)

Man, this chapter was great!

(spoilers) As far as the fight goes, i'm curious about something. did that first huge nuke explosion come david deflecting falans attack? like, did falan basically create that attack? if so than DAMN. I think the coolest part of the fight was when solomon redirected david and his attack at the other magicians.

Poor setta too, davids brutal, not even letting him finish his final words...

Finally, do you guys think david infused his personality into solomon at the end? or did he just give him a "key to knowlege" (his staff)? 

I swear, this arc and the magnostadt arc are 2 of the most epic arcs in manga period. I cant wait to see what the current casts reactions are to these past events.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Jun 22, 2014)

chapters officially out: RAW 47 is up. 

Although i read it a coulpe o' days ago thanks to the raws and translations by a blogger.


----------



## GIORNO (Jun 22, 2014)

*Spoiler*: __ 



I called it. I knew David's group would be the precursor to Al Thamen. It seems that with the last chapter he's fused with David or something.


----------



## Stilzkin (Jun 22, 2014)

This chapter leaves a lot of questions.

David talks about accepting fate, something Solomon later seems to concede to. Previously it seemed Solomon may have given his world a destiny unlike the world he had lived in. This chapter though shows that all their worlds follow a destined path. Then we have Al Thamen who try to break free from fate but their own god imposes a fate too.

Also what is with David's statements at the end:
"God? God huh... well..."

Could it the god he is referring to here actually be Solomon? He puts the word god in quotations as though he was wondering if he should call it a god or not. He seems to consider Ill Ilah a god previously in the fight though. It is the god he is about to merge with which he is unsure what to call.



> called it. I knew David's group would be the precursor to Al Thamen. It seems that with the last chapter he's fused with David or something.



In what way? David seems to potentially have given birth to both the ideals of Solomon and Al Thamen here. Neither group seems to completely agree with him nor stem only from him. In fact David's group, as far as appearances go, seem to have different beliefs and goals then David.


----------



## GIORNO (Jun 22, 2014)

Stilzkin said:


> This chapter leaves a lot of questions.
> 
> David talks about accepting fate, something Solomon later seems to concede to. Previously it seemed Solomon may have given his world a destiny unlike the world he had lived in. This chapter though shows that all their worlds follow a destined path. Then we have Al Thamen who try to break free from fate but their own god imposes a fate too.
> 
> ...



David had said that having a son (Solomon) was necessary to give birth to a new world (the one where Aladdin and the others live). Solomon was meant to follow in David's path because their paths are essentially both to create Aladdin's world (David's path intertwines with Solomon's because by fighting against David Solomon is meant to realize his "mission" which we will start to see unfold in the next chapter). 

A couple chapters back he said that with the creation of the New World and the eventuality of it becoming a Utopia (which will most likely happen EoS) David will be equal to God and have accomplished "the" mission that even exceeds God himself. He was essentially mocking Solomon for not having the same insight that he himself has by knowing about his own mission. 

Pretty much. From what I interpret the purpose of him giving birth to Solomon was for Solomon to create the "New World". The creation of this New World will eventually lead to a Utopia (we'll find out what this said Utopia is EoS) where David will have accomplished a mission that surpasses Ill Illah by essentially being the one to engineer everything that has happened up until now in the flashback and also be the reason why things in he future of the flashback and consequently the story as a whole.



Stilzkin said:


> In what way? David seems to potentially have given birth to both the ideals of Solomon and Al Thamen here. Neither group seems to completely agree with him nor stem only from him. In fact David's group, as far as appearances go, seem to have different beliefs and goals then David.



I think I said this a while ago or was trying to but couldn't say it clearly enough.

Solomon basically gave birth to two things: *Solomon* who is meant to carry on his will to create the New World (Utopia) and *Al Thamen* who misinterpret what he was trying to do and essentially become the villains of the story because they couldn't understand what David was doing and are incessantly praying to Ill Illah whom David was trying to surpass in the first place.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Jun 22, 2014)

I ask again though, did falan create that first huge nuke? seems like she did, but david knocked it far away. cant tell 100% if thats the case or not.


----------



## Stilzkin (Jun 22, 2014)

нιѕσкα said:


> Solomon basically gave birth to two things: *Solomon* who is meant to carry on his will to create the New World (Utopia) and *Al Thamen* who misinterpret what he was trying to do and essentially become the villains of the story because they couldn't understand what David was doing and are incessantly praying to Ill Illah whom David was trying to surpass in the first place.



I think you mean David gave birth to two things?

Seems reasonable.

I wonder if the author would really be willing to go through with the ending being David's victory.


----------



## GIORNO (Jun 22, 2014)

crystalblade13 said:


> I ask again though, did falan create that first huge nuke? seems like she did, but david knocked it far away. cant tell 100% if thats the case or not.



Yes, she did.



Stilzkin said:


> I think you mean David gave birth to two things?
> 
> Seems reasonable.
> 
> I wonder if the author would really be willing to go through with the ending being David's victory.



Yeah I did, may bad.

Well, David isn't as bad as he's been portrayed TBH. He had to do what he did to get Solomon to essentially create the NW and had he not done what he did this whole time it would have been moot and the story would be about Solomon. I don't think it will be David's victory as much as it will be destiny's.


----------



## Stilzkin (Jun 22, 2014)

нιѕσкα said:


> Well, David isn't as bad as he's been portrayed TBH. He had to do what he did to get Solomon to essentially create the NW and had he not done what he did this whole time it would have been moot and the story would be about Solomon. I don't think it will be David's victory as much as it will be destiny's.



The ends don't justify the means. This is typically something that is held up in series like these. David is not portrayed as someone that is likable. At the very least we are supposed to be conflicted at the thought that David's plan worked.

I don't know that this is all destiny. From what we know of Ill Ilah it is not a benevolent god with a grand plan. In fact we have reason to think that the term god only applies loosely to it. It is not a conscious being, which fits with what David was saying about fate this chapter.


----------



## GIORNO (Jun 22, 2014)

Stilzkin said:


> The ends don't justify the means. This is typically something that is held up in series like these. David is not portrayed as someone that is likable. At the very least we are supposed to be conflicted at the thought that David's plan worked.
> 
> I don't know that this is all destiny. From what we know of Ill Ilah it is not a benevolent god with a grand plan. In fact we have reason to think that the term god only applies loosely to it. It is not a conscious being, which fits with what David was saying about fate this chapter.



Oh I definitely agree that his way of doing things were not right nor could ever be perceived as "good". I'm just saying that to me, he seems more like an anti-villain than anything. He just did what he thought he had to do to lay the path for the New World's Utopia. Ironically, I actually like David. xD I think his motives were pure but his actions were not. He did things the only way he knew how to do them which was by forcing Solomon to become someone he may not have become otherwise. 

From what I gather Ill Illah isn't really a being at all. I think it's just Rukh. They interpret it as a God because they don't understand it.

Normal:



Dark:



Flow of Rukh:



If you look back to when the Medium was around, the Al-Thamen were trying to bring Ill Illah to the world and it looked exactly like the version we've seen in the first two links:



Now if you think about it, the first version of Ill Illah, the White one is the Rukh flow (see the third link) when it's flowing with White Rukh. The second one (see the 4th picture) is the Rukh flow filled with Black Rukh as the Medium is created via mass despair which is what creates the Black Rukh in the first place. 

Also, if we go back to this page you could see that they're talking about Ill Illah and the Spirit World as if they're one. Ill Illah's power *is* the Rukh because Ill Illah *is* Rukh they just don't know that yet.:


----------



## crystalblade13 (Jun 22, 2014)

нιѕσкα said:


> Yes, she did.



Thats some crazy shit for her to create one of the best DC feats in the manga. Alma torran magicians were something else. Motherly revenge FTW.

On a completely unrelated note, I'm really wanting to know if some more leam shit is gonna go down before too long. I was re checking some stuff, and shinobu went out of her way to color and show off all of the people scheherazade cared about, but we dont know a thing about them. Plus, those other 2 metal vessal users need to be expanded on too.

 I know theres a ton of other unexplored area's in magi, and i'd love to see them get explored. But leams the most important one that has a lot of mystery left in it IMO.


----------



## GIORNO (Jun 22, 2014)

crystalblade13 said:


> Thats some crazy shit for her to create one of the best DC feats in the manga. Alma torran magicians were something else. Motherly revenge FTW.
> 
> On a completely unrelated note, I'm really wanting to know if some more leam shit is gonna go down before too long. I was re checking some stuff, and shinobu went out of her way to color and show off all of the people scheherazade cared about, but we dont know a thing about them. Plus, those other 2 metal vessal users need to be expanded on too.
> 
> I know theres a ton of other unexplored area's in magi, and i'd love to see them get explored. But leams the most important one that has a lot of mystery left in it IMO.



I thought it's now the best feat unless I'm forgetting something. Last thing I can remember is BIS from Sin.

I hope so. The Laem Empire looked pretty awesome to me plus the Fanalis are my favourite group of people in the story so if we get to see more of Mu, Muron, and Roh Roh, I'm down.


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Jun 23, 2014)

David definitely isn't a believer, considering his reaction to Solomons taunt.


----------



## GIORNO (Jun 23, 2014)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> David definitely isn't a believer, considering his reaction to Solomons taunt.



Believer in what?


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Jun 23, 2014)

In Il Ilah as a supreme god, that he must follow.


----------



## GIORNO (Jun 23, 2014)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> In Il Ilah as a supreme god, that he must follow.



Oh, yeah, I agree. I think he has his own interpretation of what the world is and is meant to become and Ill Illah was merely a stepping stone.

I wonder if he knew that Ill Illah was just the flow of Rukh or not.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Jun 23, 2014)

David kind it confused me with his words and mission. I know Ohtaka loves gray characters but David reasons or words didn't make me feel me sympathy for him


----------



## Kellogem (Jun 23, 2014)

man, David was such a massive douchebag...

the part about how he cut all the skin and flesh from that dude bit by bit was nauseous. 



crystalblade13 said:


> I ask again though, did falan create that first huge nuke? seems like she did, but david knocked it far away. cant tell 100% if thats the case or not.



I doubt she did... 

her attacks name was "puppeteers entombment dance"... doesnt sounds like a simple nuke. we saw her ability was something like controlling things - making the airships fall in a spiral. a huge nuke doesnt fit her style or the name of the attack. also we never saw her firing it 

so I think it was Davids own shit.

also if that attack would have been Falan's, hitting David while he was so close to them should have taken out all of them as well. David threw it behind them in a distance and the impact still managed to take out her and the other guys.


----------



## Wesley (Jun 23, 2014)

Going against Solomon is depravity.  Going against Illah is not?


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Jun 23, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Going against Solomon is depravity.  Going against Illah is not?



Ilah has fallen into depravity.
So going against him probably has the opposite effect.


----------



## Wesley (Jun 24, 2014)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> Ilah has fallen into depravity.
> So going against him probably has the opposite effect.



Depravity is by definition going against "fate".  "Fate" is Solomon's will...or Illah's will.


----------



## Shukumei (Jun 25, 2014)

As far as the current world goes, 'Depravity' is going against the "normal flow of Destiny" and "Great White Flow of Rukh" that Solomon created. However, in Alma Torran the rukh is originally black, and Solomon (so far) has not been the one to create/manipulate "destiny," though that may change by the time their Utopia (with Solomon as High King with 72 Household members) comes around. In this flashback mini-arc where we are currently, I don't know how to define Depravity. Especially since Ilah seems not to have turned completely black yet.


----------



## GIORNO (Jun 25, 2014)

Shukumei said:


> As far as the current world goes, 'Depravity' is going against the "normal flow of Destiny" and "Great White Flow of Rukh" that Solomon created. However, in Alma Torran the rukh is originally black, and Solomon (so far) has not been the one to create/manipulate "destiny," though that may change by the time their Utopia (with Solomon as High King with 72 Household members) comes around. In this flashback mini-arc where we are currently, I don't know how to define Depravity. Especially since Ilah seems not to have turned completely black yet.



Pretty sure it's originally White, but because they use an excessive amount of magic it's turned the flow of Rukh Black. 

If you go a page or two back I explained it pretty well and showed panels.


----------



## Shukumei (Jun 29, 2014)

Ares said:


> Pretty sure it's originally White, but because they use an excessive amount of magic it's turned the flow of Rukh Black.
> 
> If you go a page or two back I explained it pretty well and showed panels.


Ok, I'll have to look at that. I've been meaning to reread the Alma Torran arc anyway; your explanations should clear stuff up.


----------



## Wesley (Jul 3, 2014)

I hope Aladdin will take a story-telling break and we don't return to the backstories for Solomon and Al Tharem until they as characters are actually relevant in the present.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Jul 6, 2014)

*Magi 231*

 and easily kicked him back and was about to connect,


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Jul 6, 2014)

Arba Is almost confirmed now.
As a supporter of this theory from the very start, I'm pretty happy.


----------



## SinRaven (Jul 6, 2014)

I was a firm believer of the Sheba theory, but now I'm actually convinced Arba is Gyouken.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Jul 6, 2014)

Will Solomon take a look at his destiny?


----------



## crystalblade13 (Jul 6, 2014)

I've said arba=gyokuen from the begining too. It was pretty obvious to me. How people continued to deny it after she killed fake david is beyond me. The staff is obviously just a red herring, to make you think its sheba at first. I never bought it for a second (inb4 shinobu trolls me by making sheba gyokuen).


----------



## belkrax (Jul 6, 2014)

I feel like it actually is way more complicated than that. Perhaps is Sheba possessing Arba or idfk.

The only thing that makes me not believe its Sheba is that i dont feel Gyokuen is Aladdin mom at all.




On a unrelated note, im glad the others didnt blame Solomon for the deaths that David cause. It would have been stupid. But i do feel that whatever Solomon is going to do now will 1) Create the Magis (the 3 of them are there. 2) Cause a sh*tstorm.


----------



## Stilzkin (Jul 6, 2014)

It just seems like a waste to tell Sheba's story if she isn't Gyokuen. Chapters like this one and the one two chapters ago just emphasize the fact that we don't really know Arba, even the characters around her don't seem to know Arba. If Arba is Gyokuen, and it does seem that way, then Sheba's story is likely going to end with her death. There is something annoyingly cliche about a flashback character like her dying.


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Jul 6, 2014)

Stilzkin said:


> It just seems like a waste to tell Sheba's story if she isn't Gyokuen. Chapters like this one and the one two chapters ago just emphasize the fact that we don't really know Arba, even the characters around her don't seem to know Arba. If Arba is Gyokuen, and it does seem that way, then Sheba's story is likely going to end with her death. There is something annoyingly cliche about a flashback character like her dying.




Not really.
She is Alladins mother and we still don't know much about his origin.
This might help explain more about Alladin and how he got his task of stopping Al Thamen.

One way or another, I believe her development will tie in to Alladins somehow.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Jul 6, 2014)

There is a distinct difference between how Arba reacted to Ill Ilah and how Gyokuen reacted to Ill Ilah coming down to the planet.  While Arba's tears were of awe and happiness from seeing their "God", Gyokuen was bat-shit crazy.

If there is a reason for showing Arba's reaction like this, it would be a red herring.  In all the flash-backs, it was the Magi with the crescent staff who fell into depravity.  This story would make all the more sense if it was Sheba's "start of darkness".


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## Stilzkin (Jul 6, 2014)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> Not really.
> She is Alladins mother and we still don't know much about his origin.
> This might help explain more about Alladin and how he got his task of stopping Al Thamen.
> 
> One way or another, I believe her development will tie in to Alladins somehow.



Just because she might be Aladdin's mother doesn't make her story important. That she might have changed him in some way or given him some task he didn't know about  doesn't necessitate her characterization. 

Gyokuen on the other hand appears to be the main villain and all we might have on her, and possibly will, is that she was always sort of crazy she has just gotten crazier over time.


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Jul 6, 2014)

Stilzkin said:


> Just because she might be Aladdin's mother doesn't make her story important. That she might have changed him in some way or given him some task he didn't know about  doesn't necessitate her characterization.
> 
> Gyokuen on the other hand appears to be the main villain and all we might have on her, and possibly will, is that she was always sort of crazy she has just gotten crazier over time.



Gyokuen can still be developed afterwards. Its not like this arc will reveal everything regarding our villains.
A sense of mystery right until the final confrontation is much better for a shady villain like her.

Also her mysterious vibe, would make it a better twist, than it being Sheba.


----------



## Stilzkin (Jul 6, 2014)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> Gyokuen can still be developed afterwards. Its not like this arc will reveal everything regarding our villains.
> A sense of mystery right until the final confrontation is much better for a shady villain like her.
> 
> Also her mysterious vibe, would make it a better twist, than it being Sheba.



Like how? Like another dozen chapters about this period in time but this from Arba's point of view?

A long flashback that sets up how Al Thamen was created is exactly when she should be developed. She can't be the mysterious character at this point. If that's what it was going for then we shouldn't be seeing half of her story here.

She doesn't have a mysterious vibe, she has a creepy vibe. That is, she might be up to some stuff we don't see but she isn't exactly an unknown enigma.


----------



## Rica_Patin (Jul 6, 2014)

First Magi chapter I've enjoyed since before the beginning of this terrible overlong arc.
Glad this flashback arc seems to be coming to an end as well.


----------



## convict (Jul 6, 2014)

Flashback coming to an end? The rukh has yet to be extrapolated on and Solomon still has to make his 3 magis and try to protect the world from destruction with his 72 warriors. After this he creates a new one. Inner schisms will also come into play. There is still a good amount left.


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## Black Knight (Jul 6, 2014)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> Not really.
> She is Alladins mother and we still don't know much about his origin.
> This might help explain more about Alladin and how he got his task of stopping Al Thamen.
> 
> One way or another, I believe her development will tie in to Alladins somehow.



Yes. We already got to see a glimpse of Aladdin's mother, and the silhouette matches Sheba's. 

In addition, Gyokuen said she knew Aladdin, as he and Gyokuen are both magi from Alma Toran. Which means Gyokuen was there, at the time of Aladdin's birth.

By the way:

Arba: "お会いしとうございました"
Gyokuen: "お会いしとうございましたァァァ"

Similar reactions, same way of addressing their "Father".


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## Kellogem (Jul 7, 2014)

I predict 3 more flashback chapters.


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## ensoriki (Jul 7, 2014)

Just tell me about the fuking Rukh and bring me back to the present.
Jesus christ.


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## B Rabbit (Jul 7, 2014)

This is so fucking boring.


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## Black Knight (Jul 7, 2014)

Then read take a break and then come again to read it all in one go. No one is forcing you to read it weekly, you know?


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## B Rabbit (Jul 7, 2014)

I'm not. hvnt read the last.


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## Shukumei (Jul 7, 2014)

I still think Gyokuen will turn out to be Sheba and all this Arba stuff is a giant red herring.  Though it would make sense for Arba to be her, considering that Gyokuen talks as if Ithnan is younger than her, and Sheba is younger than Ithnan.


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## Black Knight (Jul 7, 2014)

That's not the only thing.

Whenever Arba talked with Solomon she never called him by his name. At the beggining she always would use the honorific "young master". After Solomon became king, Arba changed that to "my King" or "King Solomon", but she never did once said his name alone.


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## Magnum Miracles (Jul 7, 2014)

Shukumei said:


> I still think Gyokuen will turn out to be Sheba and all this Arba stuff is a giant red herring.  Though it would make sense for Arba to be her, considering that Gyokuen talks as if Ithnan is younger than her, and Sheba is younger than Ithnan.



Sheba is too adorbz to turn into a bitch .


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## Catalyst75 (Jul 7, 2014)

Magnum Miracles said:


> Sheba is too adorbz to turn into a bitch .



That be what makes it so impactful, and gives meaning to the entire Alma Torran arc: how could such a character like Sheba turn into someone as cold-hearted and evil as Gyokuen?


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## Rai (Jul 11, 2014)

Another week without Magi?


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## Rai (Jul 17, 2014)

Magi 232 RAW: Chapter 167


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## ~Avant~ (Jul 17, 2014)

Finally. Now to wait for the scans


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## Catalyst75 (Jul 17, 2014)

...What just happened?

It looks like Solomon purified the Rukh and...What the hell happened?  What happened to his body?


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## Black Knight (Jul 17, 2014)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Beware of Arba going bonkers at Solomon's decision of purifying Ill Illah.


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## Wesley (Jul 18, 2014)

*Spoiler*: __ 



So Solomon became god and that's the end of the arc?  What was this story supposed to teach people?


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## Black Knight (Jul 18, 2014)

In breadcrumbs as always, uh?


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## crystalblade13 (Jul 19, 2014)

what makes you think thats the end of the arc?


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## Drakor (Jul 20, 2014)

Ch.164

Ch.164


*Spoiler*: __ 



Haha wow, I didn't expect that to happen but I suppose it goes in line with why David randomly slaughtered all those people for no reason whatsoever: lives simply didn't matter. Punishment by karma never existed in their "current" world, a serial killing rapist could be reborn as the wealthiest man in the world come his next life. Whatever they did during their lives didn't matter, just so long as enough people died so their souls returned to keep Ill Illah going. 

I don't blame Solomon for his choice, nor Arba (Gyokuen) for hers. In the end Solomon is the reason depravity exists, as it was always kept within Ill Illah until he stole it and shared it among the sentient species. Doing so has allowed karmic punishment but at the cost of untold amounts of suffering. However this also means Al Thamen aren't evil per say, but actually returning inherent malevolence back to Ill Illah after allowing it to fester en masse, to purge their world. 




Edit:


Black Knight said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Beware of Arba going bonkers at Solomon's decision of purifying Ill Illah.




*Spoiler*: __ 



He didn't purify Ill Illah, what he did was steal half of its rukh...he shared what would of been considered Ill Illah's "evil, bad intent, depravity" to everyone in the world so they can make their own choices in regard to destiny after corrupting it with his will. Hence the mission of Al Thamen to return that which was stolen to Ill Illah.


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## ~Avant~ (Jul 20, 2014)

Wait could you explain that to me better?


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## Drakor (Jul 20, 2014)

~Avant~ said:


> Wait could you explain that to me better?



Ill Illah kept an unbiased system of reincarnation, regardless of what you did in the former life. You could be Hitler and then become reborn as Ghandi. Essentially, your deeds in life meant nothing and your fate to die and return to Ill Illah was predetermined, even emotions were caused by Ill Illah doing things in order to promote this reincarnation by making people die faster. Solomon didn't like that so he stole half of Ill Illah's rukh, that being the black rukh and corrupted it with his will. 

So in other words, if you follow in line with Solomon's will of treating others nicely etc, you continue to be reborn in that worlds flow. Should you become depraved thereby promoting death, you would fall in line with Ill Illah's intent to maintain an extremely unbiased reincarnation cycle and return to Ill Illah as a black rukh in another plane of existence. Hence why the depraved can't return to the great flow, you in actuality return to the real god, and this ensures Solomon's will continues to exist as any chance of the real "God" appearing is slowly weeded out.

Edit: 
Al Thamen is trying to return this corrupted version of the Black Rukh, back to Ill Illah. I suppose this also means they came to terms with Ill Illah trying to make the world advance further. Solomon is in effect stagnating the world with his view of peace, when in actuality suffering... be it disease or war stirs the process of  development.


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## ensoriki (Jul 20, 2014)

Rukh is black because of the gods will it is subject to.
Rukh is white because of Solomons will.
It'll be yellow because of Alibabas will.

Presumably Solomons idea is give Ill illahs rukh/magoi to the world so that instead of returning to I'll illah you return to the newly created flow. There is no after life with Ill illah who is now sealed away.

Thing is al thamen makes no sense now from what I understand. Solomon created an afterlife and removed God who was controlling destiny so that free will wasn't being controlled.

If I'm correct all depravity does is reject Solomons will and since the default will is ill Illahs your rukh goes to him instead. al thamen is trying to restore the previous god but by doing that they will render themselves powerless unless they're ultimately planning to take control of him.


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## Black Knight (Jul 20, 2014)

The last page confuses me a little. Is that Solomon or David being mistaken as Solomon?


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## ensoriki (Jul 20, 2014)

If I recall Solomons will doesn't care if you are a good or bad person. It's the rejection of fate that causes depravity.
Destiny still exists and by cursing it you are removes from the flow.


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## Drakor (Jul 20, 2014)

ensoriki said:


> Thing is al thamen makes no sense now from what I understand. Solomon created an afterlife and removed God who was controlling destiny so that free will wasn't being controlled.
> 
> If I'm correct all depravity does is reject Solomons will and since the default will is ill Illahs your rukh goes to him instead. al thamen is trying to restore the previous god but by doing that they will render themselves powerless unless they're ultimately planning to take control of him.


While they would render themselves powerless, they're also undoing everything Solomon did and the current world Sinbad etc live was made by Solomon. I can see no other way than them simply coming to terms with the world needing to advance. Magnostadt would never have been created if magicians didn't suffer, technological advances of Reim would never happen if Scheherazade didn't see suffering and want the nation to become independent and strong. 

A truly perfect utopia where no one needs anything will remain "stuck" never changing. Creating scenarios where a woman would be raped and her child killed were small attempts by Ill Illah to cause the world to advance, and Solomon didn't like it.


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## Catalyst75 (Jul 20, 2014)

ensoriki said:


> If I recall Solomons will doesn't care if you are a good or bad person. It's the rejection of fate that causes depravity.
> Destiny still exists and by cursing it you are removes from the flow.



Not quite.  By cursing "destiny" as defined by Solomon's will, the ability to decide your own "destiny", your Rukh reverts back to the Black Rukh of Ill Ilah.  At the point you "curse destiny" and give in to despair and depravity, you hand your "Destiny" back to Ill Ilah.


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## crystalblade13 (Jul 20, 2014)

so yeah, basically another fucking amazing chapter.

magi continues to be the best manga ever.

if shinobu ohtaka was my illah, i'd return my flow back to her if you know what i mean.


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## ~Avant~ (Jul 20, 2014)

I think I'm going to have to reread this whole manga now.


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## B Rabbit (Jul 20, 2014)

This arc's been boring but perhaps I'll  read it in bulk and enjoy it more.


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## Malvingt2 (Jul 20, 2014)

Damn what an interesting chapter. I was confused by a couple of things but I re read it and I got it.


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## Rukia (Jul 20, 2014)

Solomon has a lot of gall.  He has this radical epiphany.  And he chooses to go through with it without consulting with Arba.  And then he turns around and asks for her help?  Hell no.


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## Wesley (Jul 21, 2014)

Please remember that Mogamett did not fall into depravity until he cast some spells, despite all he did.  And that the people he tortured and murdered fell into depravity through no fault of their own.  Alibaba's brother was a horrible human being, never mind his being king, but he had not fallen.

Solomon's decision to rob the god of it's monopoly on "destiny" has nothing to do with justice or even free will.  He just did it because he could.  Because he didn't like the idea of following a god or anyone.  His justification for doing so doesn't hold up because he really has no idea what god is moving towards.  All Solomon and company learned was how things work, not where they're going, or what motivations the god had.


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## crystalblade13 (Jul 21, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Please remember that Mogamett did not fall into depravity until he cast some spells, despite all he did.  And that the people he tortured and murdered fell into depravity through no fault of their own.  Alibaba's brother was a horrible human being, never mind his being king, but he had not fallen.
> 
> Solomon's decision to rob the god of it's monopoly on "destiny" has nothing to do with justice or even free will.  He just did it because he could.  Because he didn't like the idea of following a god or anyone.  His justification for doing so doesn't hold up because he really has no idea what god is moving towards.  All Solomon and company learned was how things work, not where they're going, or what motivations the god had.



What??? It had everything to do with free will. They DID see where things were going, in this very most recent chapter. They learned that there would be a definite amount of pain and suffering to achieve illahs (still unknown) goal(s). They learned that no matter what someone did in their life, their fate was sealed from the get go. 

RAW 47 is up. 
RAW 47 is up. 
RAW 47 is up. 
RAW 47 is up. 
RAW 47 is up. 

Thats why solomon gave rukh (particles of fate) to every intelligent lifeform. so that they could each lead their own fate, and die as a result of the way that they lived. When rukh goes black, they hand their fate back to illah, and suffer and die as it planned.


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## Wesley (Jul 21, 2014)

crystalblade13 said:


> (still unknown) goal(s



That's the point.  They decided to usurp Ilah's power because they didn't want to be under it's control.  And it has nothing to do with free will, since Solomon is in charge instead of Ilah.  And the Rukh don't allow people to decide their own fate, they did that even before they had it.

They had no idea if Ilah's goals were good or bad, they simply rejected the idea of something other than themselves deciding things.  And that's impossible so long as someone else exists.

Anyway, that's a good stopping point for the arc.  Or at least a good intermission.  We learned Solomon's side of things.  Al Tharem's side can come later.  I hope.


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## crystalblade13 (Jul 21, 2014)

illah  = holder of all rukh 

Rukh = particles of fate

black rukh = The end of the world as according to illah

white rukh = the end of the world as a result of the individuals in the world

fate = the destined ending road to life

illah had enough rukh to control the end result of the world for its own goals.

solomon doesnt control anything in his current state. he handed control to every living thing seperately, To pursue their individual unique ends. collectively as a world, and individually as each seperate life.


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## Stilzkin (Jul 21, 2014)

Wesley is falling for Al Thamen propaganda. 

So is Solomon gone now? I don't think we ever saw Alma Torran as the paradise we were led to believe existed in the earlier flashbacks. Maybe Solomon wasn't physically there and ruled from where he is now?


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## Wesley (Jul 22, 2014)

Stilzkin said:


> Wesley is falling for Al Thamen propaganda.



I like playing devil's advocate.  It's better than thinking Solomon and Aladdin are perfect and wonderful people that can do no wrong at any rate.

Solomon deciding that their dream is better than Illah's designs is him taking control.  Whether you do anything or not, being in charge is still being in charge.  Letting people decide for themselves is every bit as much a decision as meddling directly or indirectly.  And regardless, Solomon still has his proxies who do carry out his will.  He might not be doing things himself, but he has his allies to act in his stead.  And apparently his body is still moving around?

Frankly, they made their decision on a whim.  They didn't build a case for why Illah's way was bad or why their way was better.  It really boiled down to "Heh, I don't like or believe in "god" so I'll make myself god for the lols"


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## Stilzkin (Jul 22, 2014)

Wesley said:


> They didn't build a case for why Illah's way was bad or why their way was better.  It really boiled down to "Heh, I don't like or believe in "god" so I'll make myself god for the lols"



He did make that decision pretty quick but then again they were supposed to have received a sort of divine epiphany about fate and life itself.

Solomon believes Ill Ilah is a non-sentient being. If they were led to understand that there was no purpose by their visions then Solomon made a logical decision to remedy the lives of all current and future generations of living beings.


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## Catalyst75 (Jul 22, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Solomon's decision to rob the god of it's monopoly on "destiny" has nothing to do with justice or even free will.  He just did it because he could.  Because he didn't like the idea of following a god or anyone.  His justification for doing so doesn't hold up because he really has no idea what god is moving towards.  All Solomon and company learned was how things work, not where they're going, or what motivations the god had.



The same God who drained Alma Torran dry of all Rukh, and tried to do the same in the current world.

The nature of the Black Rukh is that it forces people down an absolute path rife with suffering; they cannot avoid these tragedies as it is Ill Ilah's will that causes them to inevitably occur.  Solomon took the Rukh from Ill Ilah in an attempt to put an end to that process, and the creation of the White Rukh that embodies "Free Will" came from infusing his will into them.

With the Black Rukh, Ill Ilah is the one who guides one's "will" and *causes* phenomena to happen as part of his absolute "flow"; the White Rukh is meant to allow an individual to guide themselves and to decide their own fates.

So for all your straw arguments, you are wrong.  There was no need to "build a case" against Ill Ilah: *the God itself showed all of its design to the magicians.*  To anyone else, it would have been a crippling blow to them: to learn that you are insignificant in the face of God's design effectively brought all the Magicians to their knees.  Falan said it himself - all of mankind's suffering was for the purpose of Ill Ilah being able to build his own "sacred place".

What Solomon did was place mankind's fate into their own hands, rather than being pieces for Ill Ilah to move around.  He gave the beings of Alma Torran "Free Will", no longer ruled by the "Destiny" laid out by Ill Ilah.

The species that constantly warred with one another; the establishment of the Ghund that allowed Magicians to completely brain-wash the other species were all events spurred by Ill Ilah's will for the sake of building its "sacred place".  How could Solomon, whose goal from the start was to create a world where all the species of Alma Torran could live in peace and happiness, see this and not take action against God?


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## Wesley (Jul 22, 2014)

Stilzkin said:


> He did make that decision pretty quick but then again they were supposed to have received a sort of divine epiphany about fate and life itself.
> 
> Solomon believes Ill Ilah is a non-sentient being. If they were led to understand that there was no purpose by their visions then Solomon made a logical decision to remedy the lives of all current and future generations of living beings.



It wasn't about "purpose".  It was about "destiny" and "free will".  Their lives were being lead, but the destination and reason was barely even mentioned.  Just the advancement of the world through various stimuli and the "sacred place".  Frankly, considering how far they'd came, meeting god itself, what exactly was wrong with the status quo?



Catalyst75 said:


> The same God who drained Alma Torran dry of all Rukh, and tried to do the same in the current world.



Who drained who first?  If Il Ilah is a monster, it's of Solomon's creation.



> The nature of the Black Rukh is that it forces people down an absolute path rife with suffering; they cannot avoid these tragedies as it is Ill Ilah's will that causes them to inevitably occur.  Solomon took the Rukh from Ill Ilah in an attempt to put an end to that process, and the creation of the White Rukh that embodies "Free Will" came from infusing his will into them.



No, it doesn't.  It's everything that makes up daily life.  The good and the bad.



> With the Black Rukh, Ill Ilah is the one who guides one's "will" and *causes* phenomena to happen as part of his absolute "flow"; the White Rukh is meant to allow an individual to guide themselves and to decide their own fates.



Which is hard to believe, since Solomon and company all had the same Rukh telling them what to do.  Illah isn't treating people like they're cogs in machines.  At best it might give a nudge here or there and that's it.  Frankly, Il Ilah seems fairly powerless to influence the world.  Otherwise it wouldn't have needed to create the magicians in the first place.



> So for all your straw arguments, you are wrong.  There was no need to "build a case" against Ill Ilah: *the God itself showed all of its design to the magicians.*  To anyone else, it would have been a crippling blow to them: to learn that you are insignificant in the face of God's design effectively brought all the Magicians to their knees.  Falan said it himself - all of mankind's suffering was for the purpose of Ill Ilah being able to build his own "sacred place".



It didn't show all of it's designs.  They still don't know the final destination.  We didn't see what it's goals were.  And the "sacred place" isn't that just heaven where ultimately everyone ends up going when they die?  We don't know.  "Sacred place" is undefined in description or purpose.

At this point, calling Il Ilah "bad" and Solomon "good" is entirely up in the air.


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## crystalblade13 (Jul 22, 2014)

so everyone agrees with me then? good.

and my god wesley, read the new chapter about 10 more times. they CLEARLY saw the tragic road of their destiny, It flat out states it and your ignoring it for absolutely no reason.

while good and evil arent necessarily good descriptions. "control" and "free will" are.


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## Wesley (Jul 22, 2014)

crystalblade13 said:


> and my god wesley, read the new chapter about 10 more times. they CLEARLY saw the tragic road of their destiny, It flat out states it and your ignoring it for absolutely no reason.



You read it.  You tell me what was "tragic" about it.  All I saw was a bunch of ignorant scrubs getting all emo over the fact that they don't have complete and total control over their daily lives.  It's like people getting butt hurt over the fact that they can't make the sun rise on a whim.  There are things beyond people's ability to control and understand, and there was no indication whatsoever that they understood Il Ilah.



> while good and evil arent necessarily good descriptions. "control" and "free will" are.



They call it free will, but they pointed out that Il Ilah's influence was indiscernible from random chance.  Does it really make people feel better that someone died in a horrible accident for no reason whatsoever instead of it having some purpose to it in the scheme of things?

What I don't get is that allegedly all the people from Alma Toran were faithful, but it'd never occurred to them that there was some kind of divine plan in place, that everything that happened was meant to have happened.  What kind of shitty religion doesn't reconcile bad and good things happening and the existence of a supreme being that leaves it that way?


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## Louis Cyphre (Jul 22, 2014)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWx2d0YbAmg[/youtube]

> gave people free will 
> " hurr durr god had a plan...hurr durr solomon was wrong"

Yes, having an eldritch abomination controlling every aspect of your life is a good thing, especially when it enforce suffering on every sentient being on the planet for arbitrary reasons.

Top fucking kek.


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## Stilzkin (Jul 22, 2014)

Wesley said:


> It wasn't about "purpose".  It was about "destiny" and "free will".  Their lives were being lead, but the destination and reason was barely even mentioned.  Just the advancement of the world through various stimuli and the "sacred place".  Frankly, considering how far they'd came, meeting god itself, what exactly was wrong with the status quo?




"In our long lives no matter what kind of intentions we have, whether we commit crimes or are violated, _we struggle_, _we suffer_, we stand up"

"So this means no matter how much we suffer, our is suffering nothing but meaningless stepping stones for god to build his own sacred place"

What these lines add up to is pretty clear. Their god does not care about them, there is no divine justice, there is no meaning to their individual suffering. The great purpose, the "sacred place", is just their existence. They exist because that's what Ill Ilah does, it creates worlds.

Why does it matter that they met Ill Ilah? They also just found out that there is no sense to the suffering they experience and that their destinies are chained up by this thing. How is their status quo not wrong?





> Otherwise it wouldn't have needed to create the magicians in the first place.



.....

Are you spouting what their religion in the story was saying? We have no reason to think this thing is actually a conscious being that is making decisions to meet a goal. It just creates worlds and leads them along because that's what it does.

That's the problem with this thing it doesn't have any interests in mind. It could have chosen to have had the humans wiped. The magicians coming about was purely by chance, as is everything. 



> They still don't know the final destination.  We didn't see what it's goals were.  And the "sacred place" isn't that just heaven where ultimately everyone ends up going when they die?  We don't know.  "Sacred place" is undefined in description or purpose.



The sacred place is their world. It's sacred because it is a world that belongs to a divine being.




Wesley said:


> You tell me what was "tragic" about it.  All I saw was a bunch of ignorant scrubs getting all emo over the fact that they don't have complete and total control over their daily lives.  It's like people getting butt hurt over the fact that they can't make the sun rise on a whim.  There are things beyond people's ability to control and understand, and there was no indication whatsoever that they understood Il Ilah.



What are you talking about? Everything that has happened in previous generations, current generations, and future generations was out of their control. 

I don't think you understand this destiny thing.




> What I don't get is that allegedly all the people from Alma Toran were faithful, but it'd never occurred to them that there was some kind of divine plan in place, that everything that happened was meant to have happened.



That's because they understand and are saying they understand what you don't.

There is no purpose to their lives and they just saw it. The sacred place is not a mysterious thing that will be later explained. It means that their world is the play thing of their god, their world is the sacred place.


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## Malvingt2 (Jul 22, 2014)

lol this thread is going south................................... :/


----------



## belkrax (Jul 22, 2014)

David was best man, best chef and he was right all along.

I will miss him a lot.

Never forget.


----------



## Jacob Shekelstein (Jul 22, 2014)

All those good priests dying. Oy vey gevalt! Dis is like annuda shoah!


----------



## Akabara Strauss (Jul 23, 2014)

I guess its confirmed then, Arba is Gyokuen, and she brought the downfall of Alma Toran. But I'm confused at the last chapter, is that David standing on the last page?


----------



## God Movement (Jul 23, 2014)

Finally caught up, this manga is extremely information heavy. I struggled to keep interest at times.


----------



## Wesley (Jul 23, 2014)

I love the amount of dialogue.  They say more in one panel than an entire chapter of Bleach.


----------



## God Movement (Jul 23, 2014)

It's good at times, but sometimes it just drags on and on and becomes hard to follow if you don't read the chapter extremely slowly, or more than once.


----------



## Humite Juubi (Jul 23, 2014)

Strange i never had difficulties following the dialoque and english isnt even my first language.

Anyway this whole illah thing in this chapter reminds me a lot of the demiurge from gnosticism.


----------



## ensoriki (Jul 23, 2014)

End of manga revealed.

Alladdin and Mor get knocked out.
Alibaba goes up against Sinbad, Ill Illah, David, Solomons Ghost, Ugo, Judar, ren family, Gyokuen, 1000 members of Al Thamen and an Active volcano.
Solos them all in about a chapter...but he still wont have a GF.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Jul 24, 2014)

ensoriki said:


> End of manga revealed.
> 
> Alladdin and Mor get knocked out.
> Alibaba goes up against Sinbad, Ill Illah, David, Solomons Ghost, Ugo, Judar, ren family, Gyokuen, 1000 members of Al Thamen and an Active volcano.
> *Solos them all in about a chapter...but he still wont have a GF.*



Best ending ever!


----------



## Black Knight (Jul 25, 2014)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Arba = Gyokuen confirmed, at last.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Jul 25, 2014)

*does the math*


*Spoiler*: __ 



Despite this, *it still does not add up* with what we've seen in all prior flashbacks.  

In the flashbacks, the Magi shown to have "fallen" was always the one with the Crescent Moon Staff, and the one who possesses that staff is Sheba.  

Second of all is the crescent moon head ornament she is wearing in the spoiler image.  In the flashbacks linked to the time when Alma Torran is destroyed, like the scene in chapter 215, Arba is wearing a completely different head ornament than she is currently.


----------



## Black Knight (Jul 25, 2014)

You're still fixated with something everyone and their mother knew it was one big HOAX?


----------



## Catalyst75 (Jul 25, 2014)

Black Knight said:


> You're still fixated with something everyone and their mother knew it was one big HOAX?



Uh...Yes, because it is bad writing to have something established through foreshadowing and flashbacks *only to rewrite things for the sake of a "shocking twist".*


----------



## ensoriki (Jul 25, 2014)

What shocking twist. Sheba and Arba was only introduced in this arc. So it was valid to begin with to use of them as a red herring for the other.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Jul 25, 2014)

ensoriki said:


> What shocking twist. Sheba and Arba was only introduced in this arc. So it was valid to begin with to use of them as a red herring for the other.



By name they haven't been introduced until now.  Appearance-wise from the flashbacks, the traitor among Solomon's Magi was always the one with the Crescent Moon Staff; Arba is the Magi with the Winged Staff, and was not blacked out like Gyokuen in flashbacks to Alma Torran.


----------



## ensoriki (Jul 25, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> By name they haven't been introduced until now.  Appearance-wise from the flashbacks, the traitor among Solomon's Magi was always the one with the Crescent Moon Staff; Arba is the Magi with the Winged Staff, and was not blacked out like Gyokuen in flashbacks to Alma Torran.



Knowing this Sheba is created with the staff to be a red herring...
Gyokuen never acknowledged Alladdin as a son despite all current implication being that Aladdin is Shebas son..which eliminates Sheba to begin with .


----------



## Wesley (Jul 25, 2014)

Once again;

Sheba is going to die.  Arba is Gyokuen.  Aladdin is the traitor.


----------



## Santí (Jul 25, 2014)

Sant? said:


> Gyokuen is obviously Arba.



Check and mate.


----------



## Rai (Jul 26, 2014)

Magi 233 RAW: chapter is out on mangacow


----------



## Catalyst75 (Jul 26, 2014)

ensoriki said:


> Knowing this Sheba is created with the staff to be a red herring...
> Gyokuen never acknowledged Alladdin as a son despite all current implication being that Aladdin is Shebas son..which eliminates Sheba to begin with .



Here are the last three pages of chapter 193.  The last one is a clear image of the individual who stood at the head of Al-Thamen that we are meant to associate Gyokuen with:


*Spoiler*: __ 












There are three identifying physical traits the "traitor" possesses, all of which are visible in the last page of chapter 193: 

1) a Ring head ornament with a gemstone at the bottom

2) the Crescent Moon staff

3) a long pony-tail

Now, compare to the image of Sheba in chapter 215:


*Spoiler*: __ 










By contrast, Arba's staff is the Winged Staff, her hairstyle is two long pig-tails, and the head ornament she wears at the time Alma Torran falls is a winged head ornament with a gemstone in the middle.

We saw a full-body image of the Magi who created Al-Thamen back in chapter 193, *and the Magi's appearance does not match up with Arba's at all.* 

More importantly, the same woman seen smiling at Solomon in the first page I provided has those same identifying elements - and Solomon is smiling back at her.  In other words, Gyokuen was once someone Solomon was very close to, and the Magi who was closest to Solomon before he "became" the White Rukh was Sheba.

As for the child, *are you sure it is Alladin?*

----------------------------------------------------------------------Addition-----------------------------------------------------------------

*goes through raw*


*Spoiler*: __ 



...Nothing is adding up.  

Nothing is adding up, and I believe that what Arba is doing is not going to bring about Alma Torran's destruction, and is not confirmation she is Gyokuen.  Rather, what will happen there will lead up to where we were in chapter 215.  As we saw earlier in the chapter, Falan, Ithnan and Wahid *were happy*.  These are not the dark-eyed individuals we saw in chapter 215.

The Alma Torran arc started with Solomon rescuing Sheba, and I have a feeling it will start toward its conclusion once we see the event that caused that dead look in Sheba's eyes in chapter 215.


----------



## Wesley (Jul 26, 2014)

David clearly thought ahead centuries in advance, and he especially made Arba to be Solomon's friend, 30 years before he'd even been born.  She might have been programmed to behave in a certain way and to accomplish certain goals.  Suffice to say, she is a suspicious person.  Why exactly did she promote Sheba to be Solomon's lover?  Especially when she herself held an attraction to him?

The appearances of the characters from the flash backs are probably red herrings.  That their faces are covered up to begin with only for them to be who we were lead to believe all along would be...kind of dumb.  Why add speculation fuel while also making things blindingly obvious?

Personally I don't think Sheba has the capacity to destroy the world.  She might be pissed off at Solomon for abandoning her so suddenly, but more than that she's a simple kind-hearted young woman.  She doesn't make bold moves unless her emotions peak.  She doesn't have it in her to be a schemer like Gyokuen.

Arba on the other hand, she is shady.  Her origin and connection to David.  The fact that she reached and cut down the faux David before Solomon.  (The trap was probably set to spring when the fake was killed and there might have been a chance that they'd try to take "David" alive.)  Arba is not on the level, but neither do I think I she is a completely and totally expendable nobody who's only purpose is to set events in motion.

Anyway, Ohtaka is jerking people around.  I'd like to think that the appearances of characters and placement of objects are red herrings and that she's banking on her readers 'knowing' her characters and their personalities to figure things out in advance.  As much development Sheba, Solomon, and company have received throughout the arc, having them all just go crazy suddenly and start fighting would be disappointing.


----------



## Black Knight (Jul 26, 2014)

I think I'm beggining to understand what happened in those pages.


*Spoiler*: __ 



In chapter 193, Sheba is looking at her left with malicious eyes. Who she has next her? Ugo... and Arba.

In chapter 215 she's looking with empty eyes at someone. Guess who?

Not to mention Ithnan is doing the same but smiling. Why he would do that?


----------



## Catalyst75 (Jul 26, 2014)

@ Wesley: The fact Sheba has so much development would make Sheba's eventual 'fall' that much more impactful.  She is not just any Magi - she is the Magi who was Solomon's lover.

What you mentioned about Arba does have merit, but I do not believe it would be in the context of her being Ill Ilah.  As she was a magician created by David, there must be something that David still has more left for her to do.  David's playing a multi-layered game: he gave Solomon the means to take the Rukh from Ill Ilah, and he *could* have made Arba so she'd respond in a pre-set way to the event.

That said, I've envisioned Arba's 'hatred' of David and her 'love' for Ill Ilah as being two sides of one coin - as someone who was 'created' perhaps Arba could have looked at Ill Ilah's existence as "giving her purpose" in life, since she was not "born" like most people.  Whatever her feelings for Ill Ilah, they go back to her feelings regarding David.  


*Spoiler*: __ 



The current situation right now is too early compared to the flashbacks.  Falan, Wahid and Ithnan are happy at this point in time, a stark contrast to the grim and dead-eyed people who would eventually become Al-Thamen.  More than that, it is Sheba who has the dead-eyed look in chapter 215.

Either way, causing readers to second-guess what we know is also the sign of an excellent writer.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Jul 26, 2014)

Black Knight said:


> I think I'm beggining to understand what happened in those pages.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



You missed Solomon, who is also to the left and in front of the Magi who betrays him.

As for chapter 215, those dead eyes are directed at *Solomon.*

I should also remind you of something else: Gyokuen Ren showed an unusual proficiency for using her Borg in an offensive manner, as demonstrated during her "fight" with Hakuryuu.  Out of the characters in Alma Torran, the Magi shown to have honed the Borg to a point where it can be used in an offensive manner is Sheba.

Arba's specialty is Gravity Magic.


----------



## Gunners (Jul 26, 2014)

Is there the possibility of Arba and Sheba being two halves of a whole?


----------



## Wesley (Jul 26, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> @ Wesley: The fact Sheba has so much development would make Sheba's eventual 'fall' that much more impactful.  She is not just any Magi - she is the Magi who was Solomon's lover.



Which is why her fall had better be pretty damn awesome and convincing.  If the crux of the matter is abandonment issues because her man left her, doesn't that seem very...stupid?  It doesn't make her tragic.  It makes her petty and vain.



> That said, I've envisioned Arba's 'hatred' of David and her 'love' for Ill Ilah as being two sides of one coin - as someone who was 'created' perhaps Arba could have looked at Ill Ilah's existence as "giving her purpose" in life, since she was not "born" like most people.  Whatever her feelings for Ill Ilah, they go back to her feelings regarding David.



I haven't gathered that Arba doesn't hate David.  At least the most expressive scenes she's ever had were when she interacted with Solomon, Sheba, and Il Ilah.



> it is Sheba who has the dead-eyed look in chapter 215.



It is still not confirmed that that was Sheba.



> Either way, causing readers to second-guess what we know is also the sign of an excellent writer.



She is a good writer, but I don't think it'd be good writing for Sheba to be Gyokuen at this point.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Jul 26, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Which is why her fall had better be pretty damn awesome and convincing.  If the crux of the matter is abandonment issues because her man left her, doesn't that seem very...stupid?  It doesn't make her tragic.  It makes her petty and vain.



How does the death of her unborn child sound?  That said, she seems to not be happy with the "current" Solomon as it is.



> I haven't gathered that Arba doesn't hate David.  At least the most expressive scenes she's ever had were when she interacted with Solomon, Sheba, and Il Ilah.



She compared Solomon taking Ill Ilah's Rukh to what David did.  I'd say that is evidence enough that she hated David.



> It is still not confirmed that that was Sheba.



In chapter 233, Sheba is given the Ring head ornament that she was seen wearing in chapter 215.



> She is a good writer, but I don't think it'd be good writing for Sheba to be Gyokuen at this point.



Would it be good writing to suddenly make Arba into Gyokuen, despite the amount of flashbacks that point towards Sheba?


----------



## Black Knight (Jul 26, 2014)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Cmon, you can't deny the evidence. Arba's infatuation and worship towards Ill Ilah is the same as Gyokuen. The end of the chapter serves to show who in the end betrayed Solomon, and that's no one else but Arba.


----------



## Shukumei (Jul 26, 2014)

Boy, this is going by fast. She's really wrapping things up at a fast pace; I expected to see more about Solomon's 72 Household members, the creation of al-Thamen, etc., but it looks like the Medium will be summoned very shortly after what Solomon did to Ilah and the rukh. It feels too soon ... maybe she realizes how impatient some people are to return to the main cast (not flashback Torran) and is rushing things to end the flashback arc? I'd be disappointed; I'm liking these chapters.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Jul 26, 2014)

Shukumei said:


> Boy, this is going by fast. She's really wrapping things up at a fast pace; I expected to see more about Solomon's 72 Household members, the creation of al-Thamen, etc., but it looks like the Medium will be summoned very shortly after what Solomon did to Ilah and the rukh. It feels too soon ... maybe she realizes how impatient some people are to return to the main cast (not flashback Torran) and is rushing things to end the flashback arc? I'd be disappointed; I'm liking these chapters.



Its possible, and unfortunate if true. Then again, she can always revisit those 2 things in a later  arc. That being said, im not so sure this will be ending as soon as some think. the medium action, djinn creation, room of solitude, shebas babies birth, and the creation of the new world all have to take place before the arc ends.

I love this arc too. second only to the magostadt arc. It amazes me too, because setting up a new cast for an entire arc and making people enjoy these characters too is super impressive. ohtaka is such an amazing writter, my fave!

AIso is there anyone who knows how the japanese are liking this arc?


----------



## Wesley (Jul 27, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> How does the death of her unborn child sound?  That said, she seems to not be happy with the "current" Solomon as it is.



Clich?.  She's supposed to know and love Solomon more than anyone.  Having her throw a fit because he sacrificed himself is stupid.



> She compared Solomon taking Ill Ilah's Rukh to what David did.  I'd say that is evidence enough that she hated David.



But did she hate David before she learned that?



> In chapter 233, Sheba is given the Ring head ornament that she was seen wearing in chapter 215.



You don't know if that was Sheba from 215.  The character could be a boy or a girl.



> Would it be good writing to suddenly make Arba into Gyokuen, despite the amount of flashbacks that point towards Sheba?



Otaka should have flat out showed everyone's face if everyone from those earlier panels from 193 and 215 ended up being exactly who we thought they were implied to be.  Why not show Arba's face if you're going to show her staff and her hair style?  Why keep the alleged traitor magi from the flashbacks face hidden and then make it andygronous and devoid of expression when you do show it?

I think Sheba is going to die, Arba/Gyokuen is going to cause it to happen, and Aladdin will take Sheba's place.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Jul 27, 2014)

Wesley said:


> You don't know if that was Sheba from 215.  The character could be a boy or a girl.



Let me think. 

In chapter 193, a woman was shown smiling at Solomon who a) possesses the Crescent Moon Staff and b) the Ring Head ornament that Sheba now has both of since once of the scenes in the recent chapter.  

Yeah, I definitely think that was Sheba.



> Otaka should have flat out showed everyone's face if everyone from those earlier panels from 193 and 215 ended up being exactly who we thought they were implied to be.  Why not show Arba's face if you're going to show her staff and her hair style?  Why keep the alleged traitor magi from the flashbacks face hidden and then make it andygronous and devoid of expression when you do show it?



Because what is important is simply not showing the identity of the traitor; we need to learn *WHY* the individual betrayed Solomon in the first place.  

Religious fanaticism is about a clich? as things get, yet I do not see you calling Arba being "Gyokuen" because of that fanaticism clich?.


----------



## Wesley (Jul 27, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> Let me think.
> 
> In chapter 193, a woman was shown smiling at Solomon who a) possesses the Crescent Moon Staff and b) the Ring Head ornament that Sheba now has both of since once of the scenes in the recent chapter.
> 
> Yeah, I definitely think that was Sheba.



You don't know if that was a woman though.



> Because what is important is simply not showing the identity of the traitor; we need to learn *WHY* the individual betrayed Solomon in the first place.
> 
> Religious fanaticism is about a clich? as things get, yet I do not see you calling Arba being "Gyokuen" because of that fanaticism clich?.



Religion is a good reason to do something.  Petty squabbles with your spouse are not.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 28, 2014)

One thing im confused about does Illah have Intelligence or not?


----------



## Shukumei (Jul 28, 2014)

Solomon believed Ilah wasn't sentient/intelligent, but that may just be because that would make his wishes easier to justify. Just because Solomon says so doesn't mean Ilah is a mindless mass of power.


----------



## Wesley (Jul 29, 2014)

That was a glorious chapter.  Everyone made good arguments and Sheba was beautiful.  She is a good wife and a great queen.  More than Solomon deserves.


----------



## Black Knight (Jul 29, 2014)

It's so easy now to tell Aladdin is Solomon and Sheba's child.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Jul 29, 2014)

another great chapter for a second I was confused with one of the argument,. Re read chapter becuase of that


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Jul 29, 2014)

Its Arba, we won.
Any further arguments are pointless at this point.

Sheba is a pretty well developed character, all thing considered.
She really had a hard task. 
But there is no reasoning with fanatics and Arba is obviously crazy.


----------



## Meia (Jul 29, 2014)

This chapter was so damn amazing.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Everything's gonna go to shit.

Poor Sheba, girl tries so hard. 

I still love Arba, that crazy bitch. I can't wait to know what made her so obsessed




Shinobu Ohtaka, you goddess.


----------



## The_Evil (Jul 29, 2014)

*Spoiler*: __ 



I'm so confused. I kind of lost track of the flashback. If it's Arba who summoned Illiah, then who in the hell was the dark figure in chapter 193? Either we are still missing something or Othaka can't keep track of character designs.


----------



## belkrax (Jul 29, 2014)

Can someone please explain to me with details why Ithnan, Falan and Wahid are against Solomon?

I dont really get it, just because their destiny now follows his will? Even if it is such a good will as wanting a happy world for everyone?

It makes sense on Arba since she?s obviously an Ill Illah fanatic, but those three seemed smarter to turn against Solomon for that. Its not as if Solomon could have canceled destiny altogether.


----------



## Wesley (Jul 29, 2014)

The_Evil said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> I'm so confused. I kind of lost track of the flashback. If it's Arba who summoned Illiah, then who in the hell was the dark figure in chapter 193? Either we are still missing something or Othaka can't keep track of character designs.



Or the character designs are red-herrings.  If Sheba is killed, her replacement might have chosen to wear her garb and take up her staff.  Especially if there was personal connection between the two.

There remains one more possibility.  Sheba might be corrupted by magic.  Obviously she's strong and not going to go against Solomon of her own will.  If she is not killed, if the black rukh takes hold of her, she might not have a choice.


----------



## Wesley (Jul 29, 2014)

belkrax said:


> Can someone please explain to me with details why Ithnan, Falan and Wahid are against Solomon?
> 
> I dont really get it, just because their destiny now follows his will? Even if it is such a good will as wanting a happy world for everyone?
> 
> It makes sense on Arba since she?s obviously an Ill Illah fanatic, but those three seemed smarter to turn against Solomon for that. Its not as if Solomon could have canceled destiny altogether.



Ithnan's problem stems from the belief that his brother died for nothing.  Random acts perpetrated by god to create "destiny" didn't sit well with him.  Solomon failed to break "destiny" since the act of breaking "destiny" and stemming it's flow is "destiny" itself.  Even if Solomon doesn't interfere with the world, by his will the world is not being interfered with.  Choosing not to act is still a choice.

Falan and Wahid are grieving over the loss of their son, who had his rukh absorbed into Il Ilah, which is now isolated from the new flow of the world.  Effectively their son is in hell now and Solomon put him there.  Even David wasn't so cruel.

Solomon decided everything on his own.  This was a big decision on his part, he didn't consult anyone, and it's not even clear whether the decision to do what he did was for the best.  Originally his friends said they'd oppose Solomon if he became arrogant and tyrannical and killing and replacing 'god' an existence that was quite central to the beliefs of every other being on the planet except for himself...

He acted selfishly and hid behind an interpretation of the ideals he and his friends held.  "A world in which everyone is equal" what does that actually mean?


----------



## Malvingt2 (Jul 29, 2014)

belkrax said:


> Can someone please explain to me with details why Ithnan, Falan and Wahid are against Solomon?
> 
> *I dont really get it, just because their destiny now follows his will? Even if it is such a good will as wanting a happy world for everyone?*
> 
> It makes sense on Arba since she?s obviously an Ill Illah fanatic, but those three seemed smarter to turn against Solomon for that. Its not as if Solomon could have canceled destiny altogether.



Yeah. They don't want to be control by any destiny. Doesn't matter if it is Solomon or Ill Illah

Free will


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Jul 29, 2014)

Oh...so Solomon's awareness is divided in between being god and mortal at same time. This shit must be confusing as fuck 

Nice explanation of how magi were born anyway. Great chapter.


----------



## Stilzkin (Jul 29, 2014)

Wesley said:


> He acted selfishly and hid behind an interpretation of the ideals he and his friends held.  "A world in which everyone is equal" what does that actually mean?



A world where ruhk is more evenly divided?

I don't think it's necessarily a selfish choice. He is doing what he believes is better for the greater group. Whether it is better is a slightly different question.

The decision was made rather quickly. I don't know if we are supposed to think that it was a then or never sort of deal or if it was just made instantly to wrap the story up faster. This seems like a problem in understanding Solomon's plans here.


----------



## Wesley (Jul 29, 2014)

Stilzkin said:


> A world where ruhk is more evenly divided?



It could mean anything.  



> I don't think it's necessarily a selfish choice. He is doing what he believes is better for the greater group. Whether it is better is a slightly different question.



Solomon made the decision alone and he made the decision he did, because he did not believe in god.  It was a selfish decision.



> The decision was made rather quickly. I don't know if we are supposed to think that it was a then or never sort of deal or if it was just made instantly to wrap the story up faster. This seems like a problem in understanding Solomon's plans here.



Whether to do it or not do it was a question that no one might have really been able to answer.  That Solomon actually decided what was best under those circumstances does paint him as rather arrogant.  A decision that HUGE isn't something one man should be able to decide.  That Solomon decided and believed it to be the right decision is practically a crime.

Another problem with Solomon's approach is that he preached 'The Heart" as being what made people equal.  His decision to make people equal in magical power is almost an admission that personal power is what decides the worth of a person.


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Jul 29, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Another problem with Solomon's approach is that he preached 'The Heart" as being what made people equal.  His decision to make people equal in magical power is almost an admission that personal power is what decides the worth of a person.


More like the other species have a chance to defend themselves against crazy magicians now, just in case.

101 logical conclusions


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Jul 29, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Another problem with Solomon's approach is that he preached 'The Heart" as being what made people equal.  His decision to make people equal in magical power is almost an admission that personal power is what decides the worth of a person.




The rukh carry emotions as well, so its not as clear cut as that.


----------



## Wesley (Jul 29, 2014)

Louis Cyphre said:


> More like the other species have a chance to defend themselves against crazy magicians now, just in case.
> 
> 101 logical conclusions



And now instead of just magicians, it's anyone that can potentially cause a problem.  Super.


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Jul 29, 2014)

Wesley said:


> And now instead of just magicians, it's anyone that can potentially cause a problem.  Super.



Exactly, everyone is equal.


----------



## Wesley (Jul 29, 2014)

Louis Cyphre said:


> Exactly, everyone is equal.



Unless someone has help.  Or the high ground.  Or prep time.


----------



## Black Knight (Jul 29, 2014)

Something is missing.

According to Gyokuen herself, Aladdin served under King Solomon, but he hasn't been given birth yet, though we already know who's his mother.


----------



## Stilzkin (Jul 29, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Solomon made the decision alone and he made the decision he did, because he did not believe in god.  It was a selfish decision.



That wouldn't make it a selfish decision. He didn't make the decision because he doesn't believe in god, he made it with the belief that there god is not what they imagine it to be and the knowledge they had received about destiny.




> Whether to do it or not do it was a question that no one might have really been able to answer.  That Solomon actually decided what was best under those circumstances does paint him as rather arrogant.  A decision that HUGE isn't something one man should be able to decide.  That Solomon decided and believed it to be the right decision is practically a crime.



He had that decision as someone given the opportunity to make it. If you have the chance to improve the life of all future generations of sentient lives do you not have some obligation to take it? Choosing against it is as much a decision as choosing for it.




> Another problem with Solomon's approach is that he preached 'The Heart" as being what made people equal.  His decision to make people equal in magical power is almost an admission that personal power is what decides the worth of a person.



There is no admission to anything here. What's the problem with trying to equalize something that wasn't equal before? What does that say about people's worth?


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Jul 29, 2014)

Black Knight said:


> Something is missing.
> 
> According to Gyokuen herself, Aladdin served under King Solomon, but he hasn't been given birth yet, though we already know who's his mother.


Al-Thamen has had to prepare itself for years before they had enough power to unleash Ill Ilah upon Alma Toran and wage a war against Solomon, probably.

Enough time to Aladdin be born and serve under his father.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Jul 29, 2014)

Black Knight said:


> Something is missing.
> 
> According to Gyokuen herself, Aladdin served under King Solomon, but he hasn't been given birth yet, though we already know who's his mother.



Oh no, not another issue of misinterpretation.

What Gyokuen said was: "I also served under that king".  That was the lead-in to the revelation that she was the Magi who betrayed Solomon.  Alladin was the "proxy" Solomon created.

Based on what the Djinn said in chapter 186, Alladin is Solomon's *reincarnation.*


----------



## Black Knight (Jul 29, 2014)

Yet Gyokuen knows Aladdin very well, meaning she was present at the time of his birth.


----------



## Rax (Jul 29, 2014)

Bitches really do be crazy.


----------



## ~VK~ (Jul 29, 2014)

maybe aladdin is the traitor and dark magi, I mean sheba could get fatally hurt trying too protect everyone from whatever hell arba has summoned and die giving birth and so aladdin grows up in this fucked up world as the dark magi. then again that still wouldn't explain aladdin ending up in that room with ugo so probably I'm just talking crap.


----------



## ensoriki (Jul 29, 2014)

Aladdin isnt the traitor.
Either Arba takes sheba's body or its Arba...either way its Arba.

The question to me is where is the temple Aladdin & Ugo will hide in.
Does it already exist or will it be made?

Your Rukh went to Ill Illah anyways, how was Illah an after-life?

Also Solomon took some of Illahs rukh, wouldnt it be presumed though that the Rukh he took belonged to other people? How do they know their childs Rukh wasnt merged with them when Solomon took the rukh...


----------



## Nkyaxs (Jul 30, 2014)

Can someone please explain what the hell happened during the second half of the chapter?


----------



## Wesley (Jul 30, 2014)

Stilzkin said:


> That wouldn't make it a selfish decision. He didn't make the decision because he doesn't believe in god, he made it with the belief that there god is not what they imagine it to be and the knowledge they had received about destiny.



Making a decision that effects alone is a selfish decision.



> He had that decision as someone given the opportunity to make it. If you have the chance to improve the life of all future generations of sentient lives do you not have some obligation to take it? Choosing against it is as much a decision as choosing for it.



But no one actually knows if it were for the best.  He took a stab at god, probably because he bottled up his thoughts and feelings about god for so long.



> There is no admission to anything here. What's the problem with trying to equalize something that wasn't equal before? What does that say about people's worth?



It was equal in a way.  Literally anyone could benefit from or be screwed over by the previous status quo.  Random chance is like that.



Nkyaxs said:


> Can someone please explain what the hell happened during the second half of the chapter?



Basically Solomon's body is mindless and can only spout platitudes.  It's a puppet.  Sheba trussed herself up and took on the role of ruler in his stead to fulfill their dreams and ideals.  She met opposition from her friends for reasons explained in this chapter, there was a time-skip that may have spanned decades, and in that time Arba learned to commune with Il Illah.


----------



## Stilzkin (Jul 30, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Making a decision that effects alone is a selfish decision.



No, it isn't.

That's a crappy definition of selfishness.



> But no one actually knows if it were for the best.  He took a stab at god, probably because he bottled up his thoughts and feelings about god for so long.



Solomon doesn't believe in their god. He hasn't shown to have any negative feelings towards Il Ilah.

Doesn't really matter that no one knows whether it was the right decision. It fell to Solomon at that moment to make a decision for all sentient life on their planet. He chose to act, again choosing not to act in such a situation is itself a decision.




> It was equal in a way.  Literally anyone could benefit from or be screwed over by the previous status quo.  Random chance is like that.



So you mean not equal. Having equal chances of being not equal is not equal, especially if this comes before existence.


----------



## Wesley (Jul 30, 2014)

Stilzkin said:


> No, it isn't.
> 
> That's a crappy definition of selfishness.



I left out a word.  A decision that effects everyone made alone is a selfish decision.  He decided for himself what was right, despite the fact that even as king he's supposed to seek council from his friends.



> Solomon doesn't believe in their god. He hasn't shown to have any negative feelings towards Il Ilah.



He didn't believe Il Illah was intelligent on no basis whatsoever.  He killed and replaced Il Illah without any consideration for anyone else, let alone whether or not it was even the right decision.  And personally I can't even imagine an anti-theist not having malice towards religion, it's people, and it's deities.  



> Doesn't really matter that no one knows whether it was the right decision. It fell to Solomon at that moment to make a decision for all sentient life on their planet. He chose to act, again choosing not to act in such a situation is itself a decision.



The reasons for making a decision are as important as the decision itself.  He didn't give any.



> So you mean not equal. Having equal chances of being not equal is not equal, especially if this comes before existence.



In that sense, the only way for everyone to be equal is that everyone be identical.  Or everyone being dead, since not being able to exist in the same place creates a disparity even between identical beings.


----------



## Kellogem (Jul 30, 2014)

it rubbed me the wrong way Sheba refused to let Falan and co talk with Solomon and shit. and then she expected them to agree with her, its like she didnt even give them a chance or try to understand their reasoning. its like I only argue with you it leads to you agreeing with me. no wonder they were mad..


----------



## Shukumei (Jul 30, 2014)

Kell?gem said:


> it rubbed me the wrong way Sheba refused to let Falan and co talk with Solomon and shit. and then she expected them to agree with her, its like she didnt even give them a chance or try to understand their reasoning. its like I only argue with you it leads to you agreeing with me. no wonder they were mad..


Well, I doubt they were there to "talk." And what good would it have done? Solomon is no longer there; that ... thing ... wouldn't be able to engage in any sort of dialogue with them. If anything what it said would probably only make them angrier.


----------



## Kellogem (Jul 30, 2014)

Shukumei said:


> Well, I doubt they were there to "talk." And what good would it have done? Solomon is no longer there; that ... thing ... wouldn't be able to engage in any sort of dialogue with them. If anything what it said would probably only make them angrier.



didnt they have the right to know about Solomons state regardless if it would do any good or not? they sacrificed everything for him and their fight, I think they would deserve a briefing. now Sheba was treating them they are some meddlers.


----------



## ~VK~ (Jul 30, 2014)

Kell?gem said:


> didnt they have the right to know about Solomons state regardless if it would do any good or not? they sacrificed everything for him and their fight, I think they would deserve a briefing. now Sheba was treating them they are some meddlers.



sheba sensed that they had malicious intentions and didn't want them near solomon. she says so in the chapter.


----------



## Black Knight (Jul 31, 2014)

Yeah, good luck with that (It's useless).

Wait, they are starting with China? BWAHAHAHAHAHA.


----------



## Shinryu (Jul 31, 2014)

The real reason the magicians are outraged by Solomon is because they never wanted to be equal with the other species and always wanted to be the superpowerful beings that the other species feared.While what solomon did was kind and selfless it also made them "normal" which they didnt like because that was state before Illah gave them their power.They have become so true to their magic powers that they cant stand not having them.Solomon was delusional, the humans never wanted peace with the other species they wanted to annihilate them from the entire world.The simple face the other species started a rebellion is proof that destroying them is the logical solution.

Lets be real if that were us we would have massacred them because humans dont bother trying to understand beings that hunt us down and eat us.


----------



## Wesley (Jul 31, 2014)

Shinryu said:


> The real reason the magicians are outraged by Solomon is because they never wanted to be equal with the other species and always wanted to be the superpowerful beings that the other species feared.



Because until the point they became magicians they were an endangered species bordering on extinction.  Even magicians that fully believed in the idea of an equal world would be skeptical of such a radical change in the status quo if only on the basis that the other species might not be trustworthy.  One guy even expressed that fear rather poignantly.

Humanity has reason to fear again when after 800 years they enjoyed a respite from it.



> While what solomon did was kind and selfless it also made them "normal" which they didnt like because that was state before Illah gave them their power.They have become so true to their magic powers that they cant stand not having them.Solomon was delusional, the humans never wanted peace with the other species they wanted to annihilate them from the entire world.The simple face the other species started a rebellion is proof that destroying them is the logical solution.



Genocide was never the goal of the magicians.  They enslaved the other species to prevent them from harming each other and more importantly the magicians.  They brought "peace" to the world and as we saw in previous chapters, the various species hated and feared each other, even with Solomon and his friends keeping order.



> Lets be real if that were us we would have massacred them because humans dont bother trying to understand beings that hunt us down and eat us.



I don't know about that.  If God gave me a mandate (and the power) to bring peace to the world, I think I'd be comfortable following it despite whatever might have happened.  There's always a certain amount of satisfaction in "proving" that you're better than someone else.  Self-righteousness is a hell of a drug.


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Aug 1, 2014)

Wesley said:


> I don't know about that.  If God gave me a mandate (and the power) to bring peace to the world, I think I'd be comfortable following it despite whatever might have happened.  There's always a certain amount of satisfaction in "proving" that you're better than someone else.  Self-righteousness is a hell of a drug.




We would most likely follow that command, since gods existence would have been proven beyond contention and we wouldn't want to end up on his shit list.


----------



## Magnum Miracles (Aug 1, 2014)

So Sheba is the crazy one.

Fucking great .


----------



## Wesley (Aug 1, 2014)

She might be crazy, but she's not Gyokuen.


----------



## Rai (Aug 1, 2014)

Magi 234 RAW: chapter is out on mangacow


----------



## Wesley (Aug 1, 2014)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Dang.  I was only wrong about one thing.  It was a long shot, but heaven forbid that Aladdin actually be interesting.


----------



## Lightysnake (Aug 1, 2014)

Well, this should finally end ALL controversy on Gyokuen's identity


----------



## Black Knight (Aug 1, 2014)

And that's it, gentlemen. Next time when you see a page featuing something you think is suspicious... remember it may turn out to be one HUGE red herring.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Aug 1, 2014)

Black Knight said:


> And that's it, gentlemen. Next time when you see a page featuing something you think is suspicious... remember it may turn out to be one HUGE red herring.



Oh shut the h*** up.

Ohtaka set up the flashbacks in such a way that made it look like the Magi who had the Crescent Moon Staff was the betrayer, even *BEFORE* the battle happened.

But what do chapters 115 and 193 amount to now?  

Nothing more than a plot hole.  A plot hole because Ohtaka decided "Oh I made Sheba too cute and likeable so I will just go and make Arba into Gyokuen *despite foreshadowing that Ohtaka had previously established to identify Gyokuen as Sheba".*


----------



## Black Knight (Aug 1, 2014)

If you really think a genius like Ohtaka who has the script of an arc already written would change that just because of popularity, well... you're naive if you think that.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Look closely at the direction Sheba's eyes are looking at in these pages. I mean, what would be the point of showing that in chapter 215 which is way before the beggining of the flashback? Because that was made to mislead us and, once we saw the little girl with the crescent shaped moon staff, every last one of us would immediatly think that was Gyokuen. But it ended up being what many suspected, nothing but the biggest red herring in the manga, and for that Ohtaka has all my praise.




There's no plothole, you just assumed things and ended up being wrong and now you're cursing this fact, so I won't bother more with you, think whatever you want. Also, way to forget about chapter 128, dude.


----------



## Wesley (Aug 1, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> Oh shut the h*** up.
> 
> Ohtaka set up the flashbacks in such a way that made it look like the Magi who had the Crescent Moon Staff was the betrayer, even *BEFORE* the battle happened.
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



193 flashbacks were being told from Gyokuen's perspective.  It would be odd for her to remember facing herself down.


----------



## Rica_Patin (Aug 1, 2014)

Anybody in Sacramento area care to buy the first 5 volumes in English from me for 25 bucks? 
They're basically new, only read once and very lightly.
Trying to get rid of some of my manga collection.


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Aug 1, 2014)

So much crying in this thread.
Whatever happened to losing gracefully, instead of whining.


----------



## Wesley (Aug 1, 2014)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Worst of all, it's not like people weren't warning against the possibility of red herrings.  Everything came down to appearances and flashbacks with no real context being provided.  Yes, it was easy to be mislead, but it's not like the author contradicted the scenes she built.

And at least you didn't take the leap in logic that the Magi from 193 and 215 was Aladdin who'd grown up after Sheba's death and had been corrupted into a state of depravity.  Because I thought that Aladdin might be an interesting character instead of being the fucking Boy That Lived to go on to avenge his parent.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Aug 1, 2014)

Black Knight said:


> If you really think a genius like Ohtaka who has the script of an arc already written would change that just because of popularity, well... you're naive if you think that.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



Let me guess: the silhouette of Alladin's "mother".

Let me narrate the problems I have with this "reveal":

*Spoiler*: __ 




1) It ruins Gyokuen.  When it was thought Sheba was going to be Gyokuen, the main question was how and why Sheba would become Gyokuen, and why would she betray Solomon.  For someone like Sheba, the reason for turning against Solomon would have to be something drastic, and it would have been a tragedy to see Sheba "fall into depravity".

What did we get instead?  Not only is Gyokuen not Sheba, but it appears to be Arba.  

Why did Arba betray Solomon?  _*Extreme.  Religious.  Fanaticism.  Towards Ill Ilah*_ 

Wahid, Falan and Ithnan all had very strong reasons for "falling into depravity" - right after the former two lost their child and the latter lost his life-long partner and childhood friend, they learnt that all of it was determined by Ill Ilah's "Destiny", and that they had no will of their own beyond the "destiny" Ill Ilah decided for them.  That is the entire point of Al-Thamen as Ithnan defined it - to break free from the "prison" that is "Destiny".

That is the opposite of Arba in every conceivable way.  While the fanatic devotion to Ill Ilah does fit Gyokuen's character, that being the sole reason for Arba betraying Solomon erases any possible depth *the series' main villain* could have had and reduces her to a religious fanatic.




That is not a good villain to have.  That's even worse than *OBITO*, and that is saying a lot.[
--------------------------------------------
I have to be off, so I will get to the other points later.


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Aug 1, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> That is not a good villain to have.  That's even worse than *OBITO*, and that is saying a lot.



All your credibility just took a nose dive to the bottom of the Mariana trench.

The whining


----------



## Gunners (Aug 1, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> Oh shut the h*** up.
> 
> Ohtaka set up the flashbacks in such a way that made it look like the Magi who had the Crescent Moon Staff was the betrayer, even *BEFORE* the battle happened.
> 
> ...


----------



## Sphyer (Aug 1, 2014)

I'm not really liking how this reveal was handled.

I don't really care too much about Gyokuen being Sheba or Arba much. Personally, I would have liked it to be Sheba for the sake of it making things more juicy but oh well.

I can't really fault people for disliking the way this result was led up too though. The main thing that I found most interesting about Gyokuen's identity was all the hints we've gotten previously about Alma Toran and a couple of flashbacks that show us the traitor Magi who very clearly had Sheba's form (same head accessory and staff). Discovering what lead up to the end of Alma Torran with all the betrays was one of the things I really looked forward too in this arc.

 I'm not going to say that Ohtaka changed her mind about it being Sheba last moment (that just sounds like nonsense to me) but with recent developments, this pretty much is a plot hole from what I'm seeing. 

Being more specific, take a look at these pages.

Chapter 115


*Spoiler*: __ 









Chapter 190





Two instances the Sheba looked Magi was shadowed with a sinister look and given the appearance of the traitor Magi while the Ugo and Arba Magi are not.


I can't really even call this a red herring. The way these flashbacks were designed to make the Sheba looking Magi the traitor magi in scenes (darkened char with a sinister look) where she was never anything like that is completely contradictory.


*Spoiler*: _raw_ 



With the recent raw, it looks like Arba takes Sheba's staff and head gear for some reason beyond my understanding. This only further makes it clear there's a huge contradiction. 




I don't really like how this was handled. It's fun to speculate things in a series but when you're given contradicting information, it really just takes damages the quality of the series in terms of trusting the content given in case another contradiction pops up.

Overall, this is the only time in Magi I've had this issue so I hope it will never happen again.


----------



## Wesley (Aug 1, 2014)

Confirmed; Aladdin is Harry Potter.  That makes Alibaba Ron Weasel and Morgiana Hermonie Granger.


----------



## Lightysnake (Aug 1, 2014)

You got fooled. There's nothing wrong with it. This isn't like Obito where characters who never have any reason not to call him 'Madara' in their thoughts. This was flat out red herring, and the buildup to it in the manga itself makes full sense.


----------



## Black Knight (Aug 1, 2014)

What more do you need when Arba was portrayed as a fucking fallen angel surrounded with black ruk and described as brutal and merciless in battle.


----------



## Lightysnake (Aug 1, 2014)

Frankly, if you look at the actual characters and not just "same hair, same staff" then Arba was always far more fitting


----------



## Black Knight (Aug 1, 2014)

You know, when someone refers to Ithnan calling him a "boy/child", you know that person has many years on her back and is of course older than him. 

Meanwhile, Sheba died at the age of 17-18.

In Love Sickness chapter we learn Arba was actually stronger than Solomon and that she's hiding her real power for some reason.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Aug 1, 2014)

That was a mistype on my part.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Aug 1, 2014)

Sphyer said:


> I'm not really liking how this reveal was handled.
> 
> I don't really care too much about Gyokuen being Sheba or Arba much. Personally, I would have liked it to be Sheba for the sake of it making things more juicy but oh well.
> 
> ...



That is pretty much the case.  All previous flashbacks of Alma Torran up to this point had established the identity of the traitor Magi to be the one bearing the Crescent Moon Staff *and was shown alongside the other two Magi and made to stand out as a black silhouette.*  Chapter 193 identified Gyokuen as being that Magi.

Once chapter 215 came around, we finally got a good look at what that Magi looked like, and people came to identify that Magi by appearance as Sheba during the Alma Torran arc.

But what is happening with Arba almost feels like Ohtaka decided against making Sheba into Gyokuen at the last second and used Arba instead.

Not only that, but the story is suffering for it.  Cassim and Mogamett had stronger reasons for "falling into depravity" than just being religious zealots towards a "God".


----------



## Wesley (Aug 1, 2014)

Solomon is an asshole.  That's enough reason to go against him.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Aug 1, 2014)

By Hayatempest @ Mangahelpers:



> "アルバと一部の魔導士達はウーゴとは真逆の研究を行い、ルフを黒く染め直しさらにはそれから生命体を作り出すことを可能にしていた"
> 
> I'm still studying Japanese, so I could be wrong. But yeah, it looks like Ugo helped Arba and co in dying the rukhs black and 生命体を作り出す=creating and bringing out a creature.



.......WHAT?!

YOU WENT THAT FAR, OHTAKA!?

It's bad enough that you turned Arba into just a religious fanatic of Ill Ilah's; it's bad enough that you went against all prior foreshadowing that indicated that the Magi with the Crescent Moon Staff (Sheba) was Gyokuen, and it is bad enough that Sheba's importance was distilled down to being Alladin's mother....

...But now you give Ugo shared blame of Alma Torran's destruction by having him co-operate with Al-Thamen to recreate the Black Rukh and create the Black Djinn?

That's disgusting!


----------



## Wesley (Aug 1, 2014)

I think Catalyst hates cute characters.  It's the only explanation.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Aug 1, 2014)

Wesley said:


> I think Catalyst hates cute characters.  It's the only explanation.



I hate "perfect" characters, and all too often its the cute ones that get the "perfect" treatment.


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Aug 1, 2014)

You are more salty than the dead sea. 
Anyway

*Spoiler*: __ 



Sheba 
Aladdin will survive, somehow.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Aug 1, 2014)

Louis Cyphre said:


> You are more salty than the dead sea.



I'm Canadian and from Saskatchewan.  We've got Little Manitou Lake.


----------



## Wesley (Aug 1, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> I hate "perfect" characters, and all too often its the cute ones that get the "perfect" treatment.



Aladdin is guilty of being perfect.  Do you hate him?  

As for Sheba, she's not perfect.  Her faith in Solomon is misplaced.  While she isn't stupid, she is na?ve.  She's easily manipulated and not equipped to deal with long term planning.  She has difficulty acting unless in throes of emotion or passion (this is exhausting for anyone).  Since this is not Fairy Tail, explosive emotions can actually backfire!

She is sweet, she is kind, she is adorable, and she can be pretty darn badass on top of it all, but she's not a natural leader.  She's best suited to a supporting role which she performed admirably as the counter weight to Arba with their relationship to Solomon.  She lacks ruthlessness that lead's to her being vulnerable and isolated.

Ultimately, she might not even be able to act on her own behalf.  Everything she does is for Solomon and his beliefs.  This is a form dependence, not being able to think and decide for herself.  It is not necessarily a bad thing, but it can hardly be said that it's good (especially since Solomon is an asshole).


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Aug 1, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> I'm Canadian and from Saskatchewan.  We've got Little Manitou Lake.


Control your salinity, then. I agree that how this red herring is being executed is below average but there's no need to flip your shit.


----------



## Kellogem (Aug 1, 2014)

am I the only one satisfied with the ending of the arc?

though I didnt have any doubt in my mind Arba is going to be Gyokuen and I didnt expect a twist out of it..


----------



## jazz189 (Aug 1, 2014)

Sphyer said:


> I'm not really liking how this reveal was handled.
> 
> 
> I can't really fault people for disliking the way this result was led up too though. The main thing that I found most interesting about Gyokuen's identity was all the hints we've gotten previously about Alma Toran and a couple of flashbacks that show us the traitor Magi who very clearly had Sheba's form (same head accessory and staff). Discovering what lead up to the end of Alma Torran with all the betrays was one of the things I really looked forward too in this arc.
> ...



Except it wasn't from Aladdin's perspective, but from Ithnan's. A person can be seen as a hero from one perspective and a villain from another's, especially a character who is serving the main antagonist and thinks of themselves as a hero.  And this was a very big example meaning that Ithnan's perspective couldn't be trusted. And as we've learned the magicians during Solomon's time were *all* traitors who in the end didn't believe in equality at all, so of course Sheba who was loyal to Solomon and represented his beliefs for equality free will was seen as a villain by them. Ithnan also later on says that he doesn't agree with Solomon, so the traitor from his perspective was someone who also didn't agree with Solomon, wouldn't they be an ally to him?

However, the traitor Magi is a traitor to him, not for betraying Solomon but for something else.

There was a lot of information contradicting this perspective: For instance in chapter 129: Mother


We already got info that whoever is Aladdin's mother is dead.

Then Gyoken says this...


Gyouken calls Solomon arrogant, and speaks of him as though he were an enemy. This identifies her as the traitor. But then she also tells Aladdin " long time no see", Aladdin never once met his mother so this means that the traitor Magi isn't Aladdin's mother. Unlike Ithnan, she also identifies the third Magi as a enemy to her and yet when she appears in her own flashback she doesn't appear as a villain, and instead has a rather heroic silhouette. In other words her perspective was just as faulty as Ithnan's.

There is nothing contradictory about this, it was just information from characters who shouldn't have been trusted anyway. However, now that we have a third person point of  view, we can see that it was all flipped on its head its really *ALL* of the other magi that were betraying Solomon, except for the third magi. Sinbad no Bouken and the series itself made it very clear that all of the human magi who served under Solomon and are currently allied with Gyouken are there of their own free will.




> *Spoiler*: _raw_
> 
> 
> 
> With the recent raw, it looks like Arba takes Sheba's staff and head gear for some reason beyond my understanding. This only further makes it clear there's a huge contradiction.




*Spoiler*: __ 



How is that a contradiction? It makes sense, because it was a red herring to begin with, otherwise it would have been too obvious. 




Rule of thumb never trust the villain's perspective.


----------



## Lightysnake (Aug 1, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> That is pretty much the case.  All previous flashbacks of Alma Torran up to this point had established the identity of the traitor Magi to be the one bearing the Crescent Moon Staff *and was shown alongside the other two Magi and made to stand out as a black silhouette.*  Chapter 193 identified Gyokuen as being that Magi.
> 
> Once chapter 215 came around, we finally got a good look at what that Magi looked like, and people came to identify that Magi by appearance as Sheba during the Alma Torran arc.
> 
> ...



God, get over it. Half these are you whining about being wrong when people continuously point out logical explanations.

Also, your rants about the motivation read as less genuine critique and more anger at being incorrect


----------



## Catalyst75 (Aug 2, 2014)

I like my villains to be more complex than religious fanaticism.  An ulterior reason behind how they became what they are, what motivates them, why they do what they do; those are important when you try to create a villain.  

It is fine for a villain to be motivated by religious fanaticism, but to make them the central villain of a story it is best to give them other reasons for their actions aside from the fanaticism alone.  

Had Gyokuen been Sheba, that complexity I like to see in great villains would be linked to what would cause Sheba to betray Solomon despite being so close to him, despite being the father of Solomon's child.

But with Gyokuen, all Solomon has to do is take the Rukh from Ill Ilah and Arba jumped right off the slippery slope and headed straight for the moral event horizon as if she was a straight-up psychopath that had their berserk button pressed.

What was it about Ill Ilah that made Arba so obsessed with it that she became a complete psychopath after Solomon took the Rukh from it?  Was she really that devoted to the religion of the Orthodoxy that she made it the essence of her existence?


----------



## Lightysnake (Aug 2, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> I like my villains to be more complex than religious fanaticism.  An ulterior reason behind how they became what they are, what motivates them, why they do what they do; those are important when you try to create a villain.
> 
> It is fine for a villain to be motivated by religious fanaticism, but to make them the central villain of a story it is best to give them other reasons for their actions aside from the fanaticism alone.
> 
> ...



Cool fucking story, nice to see you missed everything else about Arba that motivated her in addition to that, and the strong indications she was far from as good a person as she presented herself, and the very dark undercurrents to her. Nevermind, the fit-throwing you've been doing without even a translation or complete info about a character with an ongoing arc.

All I'm getting is "boo hoo, she wasn't Sheba like I wanted and I REALLY WANTED IT" with justifications made up for it. Nevermind Sheba as Gyokuen would make little sense once we actually KNEW about Sheba.
And we all know generic "rar, I blame X for the death of my child" is so complex and not done before at all.


----------



## Wesley (Aug 2, 2014)

Arba is a lot more complicated than you're giving her credit for.  There is also the question of whether or not she's really off the deep end as much as she seems to be.



Kell?gem said:


> am I the only one satisfied with the ending of the arc?
> 
> though I didnt have any doubt in my mind Arba is going to be Gyokuen and I didnt expect a twist out of it..




*Spoiler*: __ 



I am.  Sheba went out like a BAMF.  Probably.


----------



## ~VK~ (Aug 2, 2014)

like people have mentioned already those earlier flashbacks were told from arba's view so obviously sheba's going to look like the villain in them


----------



## Black Knight (Aug 2, 2014)

While we were breaking our heads on who's Gyokuen...



Ohtaka had already revealed it to the anime staff.


----------



## Wesley (Aug 2, 2014)

Wow, I'm glad the anime sucked.  Otherwise we might have been spoiled.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Aug 2, 2014)

Vongola King said:


> like people have mentioned already those earlier flashbacks were told from arba's view so obviously sheba's going to look like the villain in them



That is what I realized last night as I was about to get to sleep - because the flashbacks were from Ithnan and Gyokuen's perspective, *of course the Magi who remained loyal to Solomon would be depicted as looking like the evil one.*

As far as my memory serves, this might be the first time I've seen such a masterful use of flashbacks to deceive the reader.


----------



## Wesley (Aug 2, 2014)

I will say I'm a little disappointed.  I once said that Gyokuen was pretty bad ass, defeating 2 Magi and King Solomon.  Now it seems that it's Sheba after decades of isolation and a handful of supporters vs. the world.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Aug 2, 2014)

Wesley said:


> I will say I'm a little disappointed.  I once said that Gyokuen was pretty bad ass, defeating 2 Magi and King Solomon.  Now it seems that it's Sheba after decades of isolation and a handful of supporters vs. the world.



The field is kind of in your favour when you have the means to drag an angry God down into the material plane.


----------



## Wesley (Aug 2, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> The field is kind of in your favour when you have the means to drag an angry God down into the material plane.



It's not that easy.  The medium was actually defeated on Alma Toran.  Somehow Il Illah came down anyway.


----------



## Grumpy Zoro (Aug 2, 2014)

Is the flashback over finally? I just quit after a few chapters. Everybody sucks...Solomon, hipster Ugo...Sheba was decent I guess but I'm sorry these guys don't hold a candle to the characters from the original storyline.

And also I tend to like Magi more when it's more lighthearted.


----------



## Rica_Patin (Aug 2, 2014)

Grumpy Zoro said:


> Is the flashback over finally? I just quit after a few chapters. Everybody sucks...Solomon, hipster Ugo...Sheba was decent I guess but I'm sorry these guys don't hold a candle to the characters from the original storyline.
> 
> And also I tend to like Magi more when it's more lighthearted.



Agreed.
I suffered through the whole flashback arc, but if the war arc didn't already permanently taint my opinion of Magi, this arc certainly fucking did.


----------



## ~VK~ (Aug 2, 2014)

Wesley said:


> I will say I'm a little disappointed.  I once said that Gyokuen was pretty bad ass, defeating 2 Magi and King Solomon.  Now it seems that it's Sheba after decades of isolation and a handful of supporters vs. the world.



Are you forgetting solomon's 72 household members? surely they were fighting for solomon.


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## Wesley (Aug 2, 2014)

Vongola King said:


> Are you forgetting solomon's 72 household members? surely they were fighting for solomon.



Who knows?  The Djinn are all different as we've seen.  They might have only banded together to fight the medium and Al Tharem.  That has nothing to do with any particular loyalty to Solomon.


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## ensoriki (Aug 2, 2014)

Yo I feel like this arc told me things we already fucking knew.
There were other species...
Gyokuen is a witch.
And confirmed things we thought...Solomon is Aladdins father.

Oh wait, Rukh is originally black, Ill Illah was sealed by Solomon, and David did some kinda trick.

Moving on.


Where is my boy Alibaba?


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## Grumpy Zoro (Aug 2, 2014)

Yep, Alibaba and Mor is where it's at. Alladin is ok too, but only if he's with them. On his own that little fucker is annoying.


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## Wesley (Aug 2, 2014)

If that's all you learned or cared about going into the arc, you haven't much appreciation for the manga.


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## Stevenh1990 (Aug 2, 2014)

Alibaba is cool, but he got nothing on my boy Kouen. Kouen will conquer all the lands and bring then to there true heights "One World".


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## Shukumei (Aug 2, 2014)

I was pretty disappointed that Sheba didn't end up becoming Gyokuen after all, but after how she reacted to Solomon killing Ilah, I knew there wasn't a chance of it happening anymore.

I agree that there were hints she would become Gyokuen, but there were also hints for Arba as well, like her talking as if Ithnan was much younger than her. As long as Ohtaka manages to show what 'really happened' with that scene of obviously-Sheba with the magicians/al-Thamen on the flying things, I'll accept that it wasn't a retcon. But right now, Arba may have taken Sheba's headdress and staff, but she still has different clothing (and no ankle-jewelry) from that picture of the traitor. Perhaps it will be explained by showing that from ?Solomon's? point of view, he initially sees the figure of Sheba because of the staff and headdress, but then he sees more clearly and that it is Arba instead.

If she doesn't do something like that and clear it up, though, it would be a plot hole.

As for Ugo working with Arba to dye the rukh black again, and create the monsters ... I really hope that's a mistranslation, or someone's theory. I'd really be disappointed if it's true. Perhaps Arba merely used Ugo's theories about the nature of the rukh to figure it out herself; therefore it was based on his past research, but he didn't actually help her to do it.


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## ensoriki (Aug 2, 2014)

Wesley said:


> If that's all you learned or cared about going into the arc, you haven't much appreciation for the manga.


Okay.




> Alibaba is cool, but he got nothing on my boy Kouen. Kouen will conquer all the lands and bring then to there true heights "One World".


I already saw the end of the manga.
Kouen is in a wheelchair wearing diapers for the rest of his life after the ass kicking Alibaba deals out.
It wasn't any fancy ass kicking either.
Alibaba is sitting their in a lawn chair getting a tan, and Kouen blocks out the sun with his big head, ass whooping ensues.


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## JGr (Aug 2, 2014)

Glad this arc is ending. It was very informative, just lasted way too long.


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## jazz189 (Aug 2, 2014)

Shukumei said:


> I was pretty disappointed that Sheba didn't end up becoming Gyokuen after all, but after how she reacted to Solomon killing Ilah, I knew there wasn't a chance of it happening anymore.
> 
> I agree that there were hints she would become Gyokuen, but there were also hints for Arba as well, like her talking as if Ithnan was much younger than her. As long as Ohtaka manages to show what 'really happened' with that scene of obviously-Sheba with the magicians/al-Thamen on the flying things, I'll accept that it wasn't a retcon. But right now, Arba may have taken Sheba's headdress and staff, but she still has different clothing (and no ankle-jewelry) from that picture of the traitor. Perhaps it will be explained by showing that from ?Solomon's? point of view, he initially sees the figure of Sheba because of the staff and headdress, but then he sees more clearly and that it is Arba instead.
> 
> ...



Probably not, of all the Magi, Ugo isn't once identified as a traitor, this means that he was probably working with the others up until the last minute, when he realized when he realized that what the others were doing was wrong. Its probably like Ithnan, where it wasn't until he was in his last moments that realized the truth, and went with the white Rukh.


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## Wesley (Aug 2, 2014)

Ugo is a stupid virgin that can't do anything without Solomon.


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## Wesley (Aug 3, 2014)

It's just occurred to me that Arba was most likely a mole placed by Solomon's side.


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## Ftg07 (Aug 4, 2014)

Just saw the raws D :


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## Lortastic (Aug 4, 2014)

Chapter is out.


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## Wesley (Aug 4, 2014)

I strongly, strongly recommend people read the Sinbad chapters first.  It's the only way you'll get any enjoyment out of them.


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## Catalyst75 (Aug 4, 2014)

Crazier than Screwy Squirrel, Arba has become.  

Sing all you want about how Sheba was "deceived" by Solomon, but the truth seems to be you just wanted her dead as badly as you want Solomon destroyed.


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## Wesley (Aug 4, 2014)

Solomon did deceive them.  They were all faithful followers of Il Ilah, and he alone was not.  There was only the one time he expressed doubts, mentioned only to Ugo and Sheba, and he dismissed them as soon as he expressed them.  He readily killed the god the entire world followed and took it's place.

Arba is not wrong.  In a way, she is more righteous than anyone.  She followed Solomon because what the magicians were doing was wrong.  She became Solomon's enemy, because what he did was wrong.  Sheba wanted to cast a spell on the world to bind them to Solomon's will forever, despite her doubts.

Solomon barely ruled over his people.  The only thing that really cemented his kingship was the common enemy they all shared.  And then he became god.  What is virtuous about him?  What is his merit?  He was the most powerful magician with a good pedigree, that's why people followed him.  He was a war hero for all practical purposes.  Does that mean he can rule justly?

Even Sheba, she basically segregated all of the species of the world.  She seemed to have turned them all into humans even.  All she did was follow Solomon's dream.  She did not decide for herself whether it was right or wrong.

Arba might be crazy, but she and Al Tharem do have a point.

Anyway, Sinbad manga, Ruru is fucking awesome lol and I love economics.  Although I think the idea that merchants rule the world is bullshit.  Any time someone talks about ruling anything with money just makes me want to burn things.


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## Jacob Shekelstein (Aug 4, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Anyway, Sinbad manga, Ruru is fucking awesome lol and I love economics.  Although I think the idea that merchants rule the world is bullshit.  Any time someone talks about ruling anything with money just makes me want to burn things.



> being this bluepilled


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## Rai (Aug 4, 2014)

Sheba.


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## Roman (Aug 5, 2014)

So I've not read this in about four weeks and I can't say I missed that much after catching up. I really feel sorry for Sheba, especially considering she had to bear so much responsibility for Solomon basically fucking everything up. He should've at least consulted with everyone before making such a huge decision. Replacing Il Ilah's will with his own probably puts him almost as high on the shitlist as David considering not everyone perfectly shared his view, as good intentioned as they were. The fact that so many rebelled against him, even among those who shed blood with him or even for him, should tell as much. If he really wanted everyone to take fate into their own hands, recreating a world by his will alone was not the way to do it imo.

And I guess Arba is Gyokuen after all. Not surprised Sheba is Aladdin's mother tho.

Anyways, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I actually agree with Wesley for once.


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## Rukia (Aug 5, 2014)

I'm with Wesley.  I don't blame Arba that much.  I think she pursued her research because of the choices Solomon made.  And it was her research that twisted her and caused her to stray.


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## Roman (Aug 5, 2014)

An argument can be made that she never actually strayed and that the ones that really did stray were Solomon, Sheba and the other magicians who were allied with him e.g. Ugo and Amon.


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## Wesley (Aug 5, 2014)

You guys wanna take bets on who will agree with Arba and who will agree with Solomon?  Since Aladdin's story is almost finished presumably?


----------



## Rokudaime (Aug 5, 2014)

Seriously, in my opinion, it is totally Solomon and Sheba''s fault. They were the one who created AL-Thamen indirectly.

Arba  tried to discusses this matter (not sure whether she was sincere or just a facade) with Sheba and Solomon, but all she got from Sheba is "THIS IS ORDER.STFU!".

Solomon and Sheba was completely neglected their own friends, and kin's feelings over the unification idea. 

Really, it is just hard for me to blame or feel disgusted on Arba's actions in this chapter when Sheba and Solomon are not saint either in this matter.


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## Roman (Aug 5, 2014)

Wesley said:


> You guys wanna take bets on who will agree with Arba and who will agree with Solomon?  Since Aladdin's story is almost finished presumably?



You mean out of the people listening to Aladdin's story? There's no telling if some of them will take a side entirely of their own, and I'm betting Kouen and Sinbad will be among them, especially Kouen since he wants to establish his own empire without the behest of Arba/Gyokuen iirc, but at the same time I find it doubtful he'd want to willingly follow the will of Il Illah. 

If Aladdin takes Solomon's side, I don't think I'd be able to sympathize with him any longer. Presumably, he wants people to learn the mistakes committed by those of Alma Torran, so hopefully he should understand why Solomon utterly fucked up and that it would be counterintuitive to have people follow his will when that was what lead to the conflict and ultimately the creation of Al Thamen.


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## Drakor (Aug 5, 2014)

If you re-read the manga with the thought Sinbad has knowledge of the future or encountered David this story takes quite a turn...especially those in the images I put in this spoiler tag


*Spoiler*: __ 













With Solomon's Wisdom he would have the ability to take others rukh into himself as well as separate it, and pretty much see the fate/life of that rukh. This is pretty much the same spell Ugo and Solomon created and used in order to get to Ill Illah's dimension prior to slaying god.


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## Wesley (Aug 5, 2014)

Not necessarily side with, just agree with.

I could see Kouen agreeing with Solomon because a king should be able to act decisively.

Sinbad might agree with Solomon out of sheer spite of Al Tharem.

Mu would probably side with Al Tharem because his family are republicans in control of Reim's senate and have been for several centuries.

Aladdin would agree with Solomon, because not only is Solomon his father, but Aladdin has demonstrated the same exact capacity to act without consulting others or giving a shit whether what he was doing was right or wrong.

Alibaba would side with Al Tharem because he dislikes tyrants.

And so on and so forth.


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## ~Avant~ (Aug 5, 2014)

I'm starting to think Sinbad may be a reincarnation of David


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## Roman (Aug 5, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Not necessarily side with, just agree with.
> 
> I could see Kouen agreeing with Solomon because a king should be able to act decisively.
> 
> ...



Ahh, you mean in the sense of agreeing with how Solomon handled things. Even so, I would hope Aladdin isn't stupid enough to agree with the way Solomon handled it when that was the root cause for the creation of Al Thamen. You're right in saying that Aladdin has demonstrated the same capacity for acting without consulting, but at the same time he's there to warn them of the conflict and suffering caused as a result of Al Thamen. We'll just have to see what happens I guess.

On the other hand, Alibaba should be more than smart enough to know that however well-intentioned Solomon was, what he did was indeed tyrannical, and Morgiana has had first-hand experience of what it is to submit to other people's will herself, so she would probably agree with Al Thamen too.


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## ClandestineSchemer (Aug 5, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Any time someone talks about ruling anything with money just makes me want to burn things.


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## Wesley (Aug 5, 2014)

I don't mind people with money.  I mind people that think they can buy anything or anyone they want.


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## jazz189 (Aug 5, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Not necessarily side with, just agree with.
> 
> I could see Kouen agreeing with Solomon because a king should be able to act decisively.
> 
> ...



I'm not too sure about Mu and Alibaba siding with Al Thamen, because despite Solomon's actions, he still gave them free will, the ability to decide on their own destinies, acting without telling anyone, he still gave them free will. Il Illiah however, decides for you what your destiny will be, from the moment you are born to the day you die, you have zero say or control in your life. So agreeing with Al Thamen and walking the path of Il Illiah means to submit to its will. 

Both Mu and Morigiana are Finalis they are from a race of people that have been marginalized and kidnapped and taken as slaves, Morgiana was able living under person's rule, but is she also taken away from that place and given the ability to decide her own future by another person's actions. Also remember with Mu the whole reason why Reim has lost its power is because of the Black Rukh, which killed their Magi (according to side material Mu was in love with Schezarade).

With Alibaba, remember its Al Thamen that interfered and killed Kashim, Alibaba's brother and childhood friend. It was only by the White Rukh that Kashim was able to find peace even in death. Also the idea of wanton destruction probably wouldn't sit any of the world leaders, since it could possibly mean the destruction of their kingdoms. While they might not agree with how Solomon handled things its more likely that they still don't agree with Al Thamen just on principal.

Also remember the current world they live in was a creation of Solomon's the Al Thamen's goal is to return to Il Illiah something that may just destroy their world to bring back to power a god who is irrelevant to them, and possibly even put them under slavery, because remember the current people living in their world may not even be human.


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## Wesley (Aug 5, 2014)

jazz189 said:


> I'm not too sure about Mu and Alibaba siding with Al Thamen, because despite Solomon's actions, he still gave them free will, the ability to decide on their own destinies, acting without telling anyone, he still gave them free will. Il Illiah however, decides for you what your destiny will be, from the moment you are born to the day you die, you have zero say or control in your life. So agreeing with Al Thamen and walking the path of Il Illiah means to submit to its will.



I believe you are overstating Il Illah's influence.  The impression I had of the arrangement Il Ilah was that it caused things to happen.  Things that defied conventional understanding.  For practical purposes Il Illah kept life a little more...interesting than otherwise would be.  This could result in bad or good things happening to someone, but it was never to such a degree that direct drone-like control was ever exerted.

The seemingly random nature of Il Ilah's influence, interference came off as being pointless to those that had lost something.  Even those that benefited might not have liked that they were just lucky, rather than have earned their way.  Without knowing the destination, without knowing the intentions, without knowing what would actually happen, Solomon seems to have cast Il Ilah aside as a matter of pride, despite the fact that Il Ilah's influence seemed to minimalistic on an individual scale.



> Both Mu and Morigiana are Finalis they are from a race of people that have been marginalized and kidnapped and taken as slaves, Morgiana was able living under person's rule, but is she also taken away from that place and given the ability to decide her own future by another person's actions. Also remember with Mu the whole reason why Reim has lost its power is because of the Black Rukh, which killed their Magi (according to side material Mu was in love with Schezarade).



Scherazade was going to die regardless of what happened.  I doubt Mu would hold much of a grudge against Al Tharem when it was a magical segregationist city-state ruled by a dictatorship (sound familiar) that threatened Reim.

Morgiana is close to Sheba in terms of mentality.  If there is one character she'd sympathize with from that story (and maybe gain some kind of insight from) it'd be Sheba.  And at the end, Sheba was loyal to Solomon, but she still had doubts.  If she didn't love the man, there is the question of whether she would have followed through what she did.



> With Alibaba, remember its Al Thamen that interfered and killed Kashim, Alibaba's brother and childhood friend. It was only by the White Rukh that Kashim was able to find peace even in death. Also the idea of wanton destruction probably wouldn't sit any of the world leaders, since it could possibly mean the destruction of their kingdoms. While they might not agree with how Solomon handled things its more likely that they still don't agree with Al Thamen just on principal.



Cassim killed himself.  His despair was a product of Balbaad's economic and social problems that were caused by Balbaad's corrupt aristocracy and the outside influence of Kou.  Al Tharem did not tell Cassim what to think and what to do.  Al Tharem merely armed him and told him what it'd cost to use the Black Metal Vessel.

He did everything on his own and reached his own conclusions.  Al Tharem is not responsible.



> Also remember the current world they live in was a creation of Solomon's the Al Thamen's goal is to return to Il Illiah something that may just destroy their world to bring back to power a god who is irrelevant to them, and possibly even put them under slavery, because remember the current people living in their world may not even be human.



Whatever the objective, the divide brought about Solomon's actions is up for debate.  Do you agree what he did?  Do you agree with his reasons?  Do you agree with Al Tharem's reasons for resisting him, if not their goals in thwarting him (of course, since he's a god, what recourse does Al Tharem have in resisting Solomon?)


----------



## Black Knight (Aug 5, 2014)

Gotta love how none of the characters presented thus far in this manga is free of faults. Other shonen introduce perfect flawless characters who won't do anything wrong and are remembered by a select group of people as saviors, yet here in Magi not even the most important one is safe, especially when his actions alone brought to the decay of his world.


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## Butcher (Aug 5, 2014)

Sheba


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## Wesley (Aug 5, 2014)

Black Knight said:


> Gotta love how none of the characters presented thus far in this manga is free of faults. Other shonen introduce perfect flawless characters who won't do anything wrong and are remembered by a select group of people as saviors, yet here in Magi not even the most important one is safe, especially when his actions alone brought to the decay of his world.



It's not that characters in other series are free of faults.  It's that these faults either don't have any consequences or that the consequences for these faults are completely ignored.  Character #1 could cause the destruction of the world, but if the rest of the cast and the character himself don't consider it to be his fault or don't even mention it at any point...

Well, that just goes to show you what really sets Magi apart from other shonen manga; consequence.  Responsibility.  Sure, the characters are allowed to have FUN, even a lot of it, but that's not how they live their lives, because no one can realistically live like that.  They actually have to consider what they're doing or what they're going to do.


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## jazz189 (Aug 5, 2014)

Wesley said:


> I believe you are overstating Il Illah's influence.  The impression I had of the arrangement Il Ilah was that it caused things to happen.  Things that defied conventional understanding.  For practical purposes Il Illah kept life a little more...interesting than otherwise would be.  This could result in bad or good things happening to someone, but it was never to such a degree that direct drone-like control was ever exerted.
> 
> The seemingly random nature of Il Ilah's influence, interference came off as being pointless to those that had lost something.  Even those that benefited might not have liked that they were just lucky, rather than have earned their way.  Without knowing the destination, without knowing the intentions, without knowing what would actually happen, Solomon seems to have cast Il Ilah aside as a matter of pride, despite the fact that Il Ilah's influence seemed to minimalistic on an individual scale.



If what you said was true then the simple knowledge of Il Ilah's existence wouldn't have caused such despair in the minds of the magicians. The truth of Il Ilah is that it controls you, you do not decide on your fate, rather Il Ilah creates a path for you and you have no choice but to follow it like a good little sheep. 

The thing about Il Ilah's influence is that it is not random, it is by Il Ilah's will, this is an established. While Il Ilah's influence isn't really understood on a smaller scale, on a much larger one, is when its influence starts to mess things up. Solomon is a king, a leader so therefore he cannot think small scale, what we've seen of Il Ilah's will is that it strives on strife, and even though you may on top today tomorrow Il Ilah can just decide on a whim that it doesn't like the magicians anymore and to choose another race to push its plans forward, and it will happen nothing that the people can do to stop it. So all the hard work you put forward is all for naught because Il Ilah can and will undue however it sees fit, now take this idea and put it on a larger scale and you can see why any leader would be sweating bucket at Il Ilah's mere existence. Your entire civilization could be wiped out, tomorrow through no fault of your own, but just because Il Ilah willed.

The way this knowledge would affect a person depends on how their loved one died and how they dealt with that grief.



> Scherazade was going to die regardless of what happened.  I doubt Mu would hold much of a grudge against Al Tharem when it was a magical segregationist city-state ruled by a dictatorship (sound familiar) that threatened Reim.
> 
> Morgiana is close to Sheba in terms of mentality.  If there is one character she'd sympathize with from that story (and maybe gain some kind of insight from) it'd be Sheba.  And at the end, Sheba was loyal to Solomon, but she still had doubts.  If she didn't love the man, there is the question of whether she would have followed through what she did.



Scherazade was dying, however Al Thamen only hastened that death. Plus she could have chosen to come back to life. Also they were using the black Rukh which is also used by Al Thamen and is something Scherazade fought against. Also it was Reim empire who started the war not Magnostadt, and that was because of Scherazade didn't like the way how Mogamett treated the Goi, contrary to your belief Aladdin had nothing to do with that war starting. On top of that the power that they gained was one that came form Al Thamen.

Umm, no, Sheba admitted that she did believe in Solomon's words, and his actions, to say that she didn't is to ignore her character development, growing out of being a religious zealot. Besides that are you forgetting that the Al Thamen funded Jamal Morgiana's previous master?




> Cassim killed himself.  His despair was a product of Balbaad's economic and social problems that were caused by Balbaad's corrupt aristocracy and the outside influence of Kou.  Al Tharem did not tell Cassim what to think and what to do.  Al Tharem merely armed him and told him what it'd cost to use the Black Metal Vessel.
> 
> He did everything on his own and reached his own conclusions.  Al Tharem is not responsible.



Someone wasn't paying attention to the Baldad arc. Cassim was being manipulated by the Al Thamen.

They admit it several times throughout the arc. In fact you could go so far as to say that the reason why the situation in Baldad, got so bad, was because of their manipulation.

No matter how you slice it the Al Thamen was the cause of why the situation of Baldad got that bad.

I'm sorry but the Al Thamen's hands are hardly clean. Practically everyone in that meeting with Aladdin has some reason to have a beef with the Al Thamen. With the Kou empire royalty its the death of their father, uncle, and cousins; with Reim its Scherezade and because of their current Magi; Alibaba its Baldad and Cassim; Morgiana its them funding Jamal; Sinbad just on principal alone.



> Whatever the objective, the divide brought about Solomon's actions is up for debate.  Do you agree what he did?  Do you agree with his reasons?  Do you agree with Al Tharem's reasons for resisting him, if not their goals in thwarting him (of course, since he's a god, what recourse does Al Tharem have in resisting Solomon?)



This doesn't take away from the fact that the world they live in is against Al Thamen's visions and the fact that that group wants to destroy it. Its not just about Solomon and the magicians of the old world being selfish and butthurt over the fact that they are no longer more powerful than everyone else. As leaders they cannot be that selfish they have to think about the good for their collective people. And thus far most of their problems are being caused by the Al Thamen, so if they destroy Al Thamen they they can avoid the end of the world and go back to worrying about their countries.


----------



## Wesley (Aug 5, 2014)

jazz189 said:


> If what you said was true then the simple knowledge of Il Ilah's existence wouldn't have caused such despair in the minds of the magicians. The truth of Il Ilah is that it controls you, you do not decide on your fate, rather Il Ilah creates a path for you and you have no choice but to follow it like a good little sheep.



It does not control people.  That is evident by the fact that Solomon and David replaced it.  What's more, rather than free will, it seemed more like the magicians were freaked out by the sheer difference in power.  Calling themselves powerless next to a god, well, DUH!  Rather than taking to heart their own achievements and holding themselves responsible, they blamed god and usurped it's power.

Yes, the world flowed toward a certain point, but lacking any knowledge of that point, they rejected it out of hand.



> The thing about Il Ilah's influence is that it is not random, it is by Il Ilah's will, this is an established. While Il Ilah's influence isn't really understood on a smaller scale, on a much larger one, is when its influence starts to mess things up. Solomon is a king, a leader so therefore he cannot think small scale, what we've seen of Il Ilah's will is that it strives on strife, and even though you may on top today tomorrow Il Ilah can just decide on a whim that it doesn't like the magicians anymore and to choose another race to push its plans forward, and it will happen nothing that the people can do to stop it. So all the hard work you put forward is all for naught because Il Ilah can and will undue however it sees fit, now take this idea and put it on a larger scale and you can see why any leader would be sweating bucket at Il Ilah's mere existence. Your entire civilization could be wiped out, tomorrow through no fault of your own, but just because Il Ilah willed.



That is assuming that Il Ilah is whimsical.  They don't even know what designs it had.  What kind of goals it had in mind.

Also, it did not thrive on strife.  That was just one stimulus through which it moved the world forward.  Good, bad, virtually every facet of life was used to move the world in a certain direction.  However, just because Il Ilah influenced the world in such a way does not mean that people did not have a way of determining things for themselves.  Fact is if they were given enough latitude to kill their own god, they must have had quite a bit of control over events.



> The way this knowledge would affect a person depends on how their loved one died and how they dealt with that grief.



It also presumes that Il Ilah is solely to blame for the death of a loved one.  Is it really fair to assume that Il Ilah is responsible when that would mean that it effectively committed suicide?



> Scherazade was dying, however Al Thamen only hastened that death.



No, they didn't.  She died of old age sitting in Reim.  The Scherazade that exploded over Mognastadt was a clone.  Even then if you want to hold anyone responsible for what happened there, it was Mogamett's and the magicians' fault.



> Plus she could have chosen to come back to life. Also they were using the black Rukh which is also used by Al Thamen and is something Scherazade fought against. Also it was Reim empire who started the war not Magnostadt, and that was because of Scherazade didn't like the way how Mogamett treated the Goi, contrary to your belief Aladdin had nothing to do with that war starting. On top of that the power that they gained was one that came form Al Thamen.



Magnostadt started the war.  Why doesn't anyone understand this fact?  You'd think that the 100 chapter build up to the war didn't happen and that everything boiled down to Titus in that one room and not the decade or so of bullshit Magnostadt was responsible for.  They were a HORRIBLE neighbor and openly antagonistic to every other country on the planet!  Do you people seriously think that the one responsible for a war is the one that officially fires the first shot?



> Umm, no, Sheba admitted that she did believe in Solomon's words, and his actions, to say that she didn't is to ignore her character development, growing out of being a religious zealot. Besides that are you forgetting that the Al Thamen funded Jamal Morgiana's previous master?



If she believed them, she wouldn't have expressed doubts.  Jamal was tutored by a member of Al Tharem and being prepared as a King's Vessel.  They do indoctrinate people on occasion, but most of the major events we've seen play out were born from individuals just doing their own thing with Al Tharem barely lifting a finger to influence things.



> Someone wasn't paying attention to the Baldad arc. Cassim was being manipulated by the Al Thamen.
> 
> They admit it several times throughout the arc. In fact you could go so far as to say that the reason why the situation in Baldad, got so bad, was because of their manipulation.



No, that's exactly what I mean.  They gave him a WEAPON and that was it.  He was the one that PULLED THE TRIGGER.  It was all his FAULT.



> No matter how you slice it the Al Thamen was the cause of why the situation of Baldad got that bad.



No, it got that bad because the king was an asshole.  You can't even blame the banker since it was the king that skirted his responsibilities and basically gave the banker free reign over the country.



> I'm sorry but the Al Thamen's hands are hardly clean. Practically everyone in that meeting with Aladdin has some reason to have a beef with the Al Thamen. With the Kou empire royalty its the death of their father, uncle, and cousins; with Reim its Scherezade and because of their current Magi; Alibaba its Baldad and Cassim; Morgiana its them funding Jamal; Sinbad just on principal alone.



Scherazade did not die because of Al Tharem!  My god, why do you insist on this?  The only one in the manga who had his death hastened by events was the King of Balbaad!  Because Cassim raided the royal palace and Alibaba went missing after the fact!

As for Kou, Al Tharem is more involved there than anywhere else on the planet.  What have they done that we know?  Well, they killed off the 1st Emperor and his eldest sons.  Probably because they posed a threat to Gyokuen, given how she came to view her.

The ones at fault in Balbaad are Cassim, the aristocracy, and the Kou Empire who applied economic pressure to the country.  Even the Banker was merely acting in Kou's interests.

Sinbad hates Al Tharem for reasons that will only become more clear as his manga and Magi go on.

As for us, you really need to stop treating Al Tharem as though they are a boogie man.  Pay attention.  They ALWAYS allow people to make decisions for themselves.  Even Fanan in the Sinbad manga was only acting under orders from Dragul's brother.  Yeah, she tried to kill and manipulate everyone, but she was doing it because a high ranking official in a country told her to do it.

Al Tharem gives people weapons.  Al Tharem provides services to different countries.  The number of times they've acted directly in the manga(s) can be counted on one hand.  When Ithanan tried to assassinate Sinbad.  Possibly when the 1st Emperor was killed (seriously the 2nd Emperor might have had something to do with this even if it might have been Gyokuen's idea and she and Al Tharem were the ones that pulled it off).  And the death of the 2nd Emperor...who might have actually died from sickness.  When they kidnapped Judar and quite possibly when they saved Dunya.

I haven't argued that Al Tharem is good.  Just that rather interestingly they are hands offish and most of their proxies are the ones at fault.  Remember how much satisfaction Gyokuen expressed when Magnostadt created the medium?  That Al Tharem didn't have to lift a finger to make it?  That is Al Tharem in practice.  They want people to cause strife and destruction of their own free will.


----------



## Rica_Patin (Aug 5, 2014)

~Avant~ said:


> I'm starting to think Sinbad may be a reincarnation of David



Really?
I totally thought it was only a complete coincidence that Sinbad is being built up as a serious villain that happens to have an incredibly similar design to David.


----------



## Magnum Miracles (Aug 5, 2014)

Man, Sheba was one of my favorite characters of the series. You will be missed .

Now, onto Gyouken .


----------



## ~VK~ (Aug 5, 2014)

I wonder if we get another guy named sinbad in magi in the original stories there were two sinbad's one poor guy the other a rich sailor. Would be cool but I doubt this will happen.


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## Malvingt2 (Aug 5, 2014)

Black Knight said:


> Gotta love how none of the characters presented thus far in this manga is free of faults. Other shonen introduce perfect flawless characters who won't do anything wrong and are remembered by a select group of people as saviors, yet here in Magi not even the most important one is safe, especially when his actions alone brought to the decay of his world.



Yes... I agree with this. A lot of gray characters in this series and a lot of interesting arguments so far. We see the two side of the coins and not just one.


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## jazz189 (Aug 6, 2014)

Sometimes I think that you really don't pay attention to any series that you follow.



Wesley said:


> It does not control people.  That is evident by the fact that Solomon and David replaced it.  What's more, rather than free will, it seemed more like the magicians were freaked out by the sheer difference in power.  Calling themselves powerless next to a god, well, DUH!  Rather than taking to heart their own achievements and holding themselves responsible, they blamed god and usurped it's power.
> 
> Yes, the world flowed toward a certain point, but lacking any knowledge of that point, they rejected it out of hand.



Sorry to say but series itself, actually stated differently



It says it right there in the text, Il Ilah controls them, their attempt to achieve peace.

FYI the only reason why Solomon was able do what he did was because of David's staff.





> That is assuming that Il Ilah is whimsical.  They don't even know what designs it had.  What kind of goals it had in mind.



Actually from what was shown us in that chapter though we the audience have no idea what the cast witnessed, they do know what it wanted.



The moment they entered that world the knowledge of what it planned to do, flowed into all of them. And it wasn't a good thing seeing as how it caused everyone to go into despair.



> Also, it did not thrive on strife.  That was just one stimulus through which it moved the world forward.  Good, bad, virtually every facet of life was used to move the world in a certain direction.  However, just because Il Ilah influenced the world in such a way does not mean that people did not have a way of determining things for themselves.  Fact is if they were given enough latitude to kill their own god, they must have had quite a bit of control over events.



For ITS own agenda not for the good of any of the residents of the world but only for ITSELF.

.

Where you even came to your conclusion I'll never know because the series itself tells us differently.




> It also presumes that Il Ilah is solely to blame for the death of a loved one.  Is it really fair to assume that Il Ilah is responsible when that would mean that it effectively committed suicide?



Considering how Il Ilah controls destiny yes it is, the people were not in control of their own fates.





> No, they didn't.  She died of old age sitting in Reim.  The Scherazade that exploded over Mognastadt was a clone.  Even then if you want to hold anyone responsible for what happened there, it was Mogamett's and the magicians' fault.



No, the fight against Mogamett hastened her death.



Also the only Scherazade that Mu knew was the clone. Besides that Schzerazade could have been revived if Titus hadn't died fighting Mogamett.




> Magnostadt started the war.  Why doesn't anyone understand this fact?  You'd think that the 100 chapter build up to the war didn't happen and that everything boiled down to Titus in that one room and not the decade or so of bullshit Magnostadt was responsible for.  They were a HORRIBLE neighbor and openly antagonistic to every other country on the planet!  Do you people seriously think that the one responsible for a war is the one that officially fires the first shot?



Yes, because one who starts the war is the one who fires the first shot, because by firing that first shot, you officially declare on another state. Otherwise its just two countries that don't get along. Do you know how many countries in real life are antagonistic towards their neighboring country? You have no clue about politics do you? Also what happens in one country isn't the business of another one.  Its stated in story the reason why the Reim empire attacked Magnostadt is becaues they wanted to take them over. So if your idea of a country being a bad neighbor is trying to mind your own business, and stay as an independent state, who is trying to take them over, them I wonder about your logic.



The scans above are the reasons given for the war;1. Reim wants Magnostadt to become a part of the Reim empire instead of being allies with the Kou empire, but Magnostadt wants to remain independent and 2. Mogamett wanted to save Titus, but Scherazade didn't want to let go of him.

If she believed them, she wouldn't have expressed doubts.  Jamal was tutored by a member of Al Tharem and being prepared as a King's Vessel.  They do indoctrinate people on occasion, but most of the major events we've seen play out were born from individuals just doing their own thing with Al Tharem barely lifting a finger to influence things.




> No, that's exactly what I mean.  They gave him a WEAPON and that was it.  He was the one that PULLED THE TRIGGER.  It was all his FAULT.



The priests from the Al Thamen admit several times that they have been manipulation.

*Spoiler*: __ 







They were there manipulating Cassim from the very beginning.


----------



## jazz189 (Aug 6, 2014)

Part II


Wesley said:


> No, it got that bad because the king was an asshole.  You can't even blame the banker since it was the king that skirted his responsibilities and basically gave the banker free reign over the country.



Alibaba's brother was an asshole and a terrible king no doubt about that, however, it was the bankers (read: Al Thamen) who aggravated the situation.



The fact that the Al Thamen was to blame for things going south so quickly isn't an opinion its a fact.



> Scherazade did not die because of Al Tharem!  My god, why do you insist on this?  The only one in the manga who had his death hastened by events was the King of Balbaad!  Because Cassim raided the royal palace and Alibaba went missing after the fact!



The scans I posted above tell a very different story.

The Al Thamen was there manipulating things even before Alibaba, left, and the king died. If he stayed instead of running away from his problems then maybe he could have done something, or maybe he would have been killed by the Al Thamen. 



> As for Kou, Al Tharem is more involved there than anywhere else on the planet.  What have they done that we know?  Well, they killed off the 1st Emperor and his eldest sons.  Probably because they posed a threat to Gyokuen, given how she came to view her.



The reason why the they are more involved there is because of Gyoken's position in the country. This position provides them with the resources that they need to act.



> The ones at fault in Balbaad are Cassim, the aristocracy, and the Kou Empire who applied economic pressure to the country.  Even the Banker was merely acting in Kou's interests.



The banker a part of Al Thamen, and was acting first and foremost in Al Thamen's best interest. They were using Balbaad, in order to create a place that they could create a dark djinn. The banker outright admits it. They agravated the situation in Balbaad in order to build up discord, and it was working up until Aladdin released Solomon's wisdom. Al Thamen is using the  Kou empire as a cover.



> As for us, you really need to stop treating Al Tharem as though they are a boogie man.  Pay attention.  They ALWAYS allow people to make decisions for themselves.  Even Fanan in the Sinbad manga was only acting under orders from Dragul's brother.  Yeah, she tried to kill and manipulate everyone, but she was doing it because a high ranking official in a country told her to do it.



 I'm sorry but if anything its you who has proven that they haven't been paying attention. Either that or your not actually reading Magi. When someone is manipulated into an act, then the person who was manipulated isn't the only one at fault, the manipulator bears the responsibility as well. There is a grand difference between Al Thamen and Fanan.



> Al Tharem gives people weapons.  Al Tharem provides services to different countries.  The number of times they've acted directly in the manga(s) can be counted on one hand.  When Ithanan tried to assassinate Sinbad.  Possibly when the 1st Emperor was killed (seriously the 2nd Emperor might have had something to do with this even if it might have been Gyokuen's idea and she and Al Tharem were the ones that pulled it off).  And the death of the 2nd Emperor...who might have actually died from sickness.  When they kidnapped Judar and quite possibly when they saved Dunya.



Sweet heart is called manipulation, maybe you should learn the meaning of the word, also its the other way around, we can count the times where they *weren't* somehow, either directly or indirectly involved on one hand.


----------



## Wesley (Aug 6, 2014)

Al Tharem is remarkably subtle for a group that wants to destroy the world.  They barely do anything and for the most part just step aside and let things fall apart.  And frankly, it's not Al Tharem that thinks the world should be ruled by one king.  That would be Solomon and world conquest is for better or worse the driving ambition for the most powerful individuals and nations in the setting.

Again, Al Tharem offers services and armaments to individuals who then go out and do their own things.  They use proxies who of their own free will for their own reasons use what Al Tharem provides to them and from there things go into the toilet.  The proxies are almost completely responsible.  Even the advice Al Tharem provides them is piece meal and lacking substance.  They barely say or do anything!

Don't exaggerate Al Tharem's influence.  They pretty much know an asshole when they see one and from there they offer him assistance.  That's all they do.  They don't tell the asshole what to do with the power they provide him.  They obey and serve the asshole and generally try to help him achieve his goals.  These goals are almost always bad for everyone, but it is the asshole's fault for following through with it.  Not Al Tharem's.


----------



## jazz189 (Aug 6, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Al Tharem is remarkably subtle for a group that wants to destroy the world.  They barely do anything and for the most part just step aside and let things fall apart.  And frankly, it's not Al Tharem that thinks the world should be ruled by one king.  That would be Solomon and world conquest is for better or worse the driving ambition for the most powerful individuals and nations in the setting.
> 
> Again, Al Tharem offers services and armaments to individuals who then go out and do their own things.  They use proxies who of their own free will for their own reasons use what Al Tharem provides to them and from there things go into the toilet.  The proxies are almost completely responsible.  Even the advice Al Tharem provides them is piece meal and lacking substance.  They barely say or do anything!
> 
> Don't exaggerate Al Tharem's influence.  They pretty much know an asshole when they see one and from there they offer him assistance.  That's all they do.  They don't tell the asshole what to do with the power they provide him.  They obey and serve the asshole and generally try to help him achieve his goals.  These goals are almost always bad for everyone, but it is the asshole's fault for following through with it.  Not Al Tharem's.



If manipulating others, breeding conflict, taking over a country and being generally on their way to the world so that they can destroy it is considered "doing nothing", then I'm curious about what it would take for you to consider them "doing something".


Also, I think that I proved, that I wasn't exaggerating anything. I'm not exaggerating anything, that's why I posted manga scans to prove my words, and instead of just letting this thread devolve, in the two of us going back on forth. Its not my fault that you lack the ability to pay attention.

let's go over some of the things I proved with those scans:
Fact: The Al Thamen and Kou empire are synonmous, in fact the Kou empire is just a front for the Al Thamen.
Fact: Gyoken the leader of the Al Thamen was controlling the Kou empire behind the scenes up until she killed the second emperor
Fact: The banker is a part of Al Thamen
Fact: Al Thamen came into the country when the king got sick, which was  before Alibaba left
Fact: The the banker working for the Al Thamen screwed over Balbaad.
Fact: The Al Thamen members went around Balbaad and started breeding discord in the people, they're the ones who put the idea of revolution in the minds of the Fog Troupe, again before Alibaba even left.
Fact: Its because of the Bankers working for Al Thamen why Balbaad's economy was collapsed

Considering that they screwing over both sides of the conflict during the Balbaad arc, for many years, actually says that you're the one whose understating their involvement. And once again considering that I actually posted the scans of them either admitting to manipulating or manipulating a character, I don't think that there is room for discussion, here. Just because your so biased against a fact, that you like to pretend the fact doesn't exist doesn't make it any less true.


----------



## Wesley (Aug 6, 2014)

jazz189 said:


> Also, I think that I proved, that I wasn't exaggerating anything. I'm not exaggerating anything, that's why I posted manga scans to prove my words, and instead of just letting this thread devolve, in the two of us going back on forth. Its not my fault that you lack the ability to pay attention.



You proved my point with your posts.  They obviously have their own motives for helping someone, but the fact is the help they provide is on the stooge's terms.  Cassim wanted to destroy Balbaad.  Al-Tharem helped him to do it.  They didn't manipulate him into doing it.  He came to his own conclusions and set his own goals.



> Fact: The Al Thamen and Kou empire are synonmous, in fact the Kou empire is just a front for the Al Thamen.



False.  Al Thamen is using Kou as a vehicle, but Kou has it's own goals and directions.  None of which Al Thamen has undermined.  Not even Judar's war declaration went against Kou, since Judar is officially the oracle of Kou and they didn't bother to reprimand or contradict his actions.



> Fact: Gyoken the leader of the Al Thamen was controlling the Kou empire behind the scenes up until she killed the second emperor



False.  Her relationship with the 2nd Emperor is mostly unknown.  Frankly, all indications are that he had full authority and merely continued the 1st Emperor's goal unification.



> Fact: The banker is a part of Al Thamen



True.  So was the weapon merchant and they both offered their services to Cassim and the King unconditionally.  And Al Thamen told no lies when dealing with either group.  That their patrons didn't ask questions is their fault, not Al Thamen's.



> Fact: Al Thamen came into the country when the king got sick, which was  before Alibaba left



On behalf of Kou.  Kou had it's sights set on Balbaad for some time.  The pressure Kou exerted did not give the king peace of mind which may have played a part in his poor health.  (That his heirs were assholes probably didn't help either.)



> Fact: The the banker working for the Al Thamen screwed over Balbaad.



With the King's blessing.



> Fact: The Al Thamen members went around Balbaad and started breeding discord in the people, they're the ones who put the idea of revolution in the minds of the Fog Troupe, again before Alibaba even left.



False.  Al Thamen did no such thing.  The only ones who decided anything were Cassim and his friends.  The arms dealer provided them with weapons.  Nothing more.



> Fact: Its because of the Bankers working for Al Thamen why Balbaad's economy was collapsed



It's the King's fault for trusting him.  Even when things were clearly going from bad to worse, the King didn't care.



> Considering that they screwing over both sides of the conflict during the Balbaad arc, for many years, actually says that you're the one whose understating their involvement. And once again considering that I actually posted the scans of them either admitting to manipulating or manipulating a character, I don't think that there is room for discussion, here. Just because your so biased against a fact, that you like to pretend the fact doesn't exist doesn't make it any less true.



It's hilarious that the pictures you post only shows a member of Al Thamen standing around doing or saying nothing.  They might want something to happen, but I'm not highlighting their goals.  I'm highlighting their methods.


----------



## jazz189 (Aug 6, 2014)

Wesley said:


> You proved my point with your posts.  They obviously have their own motives for helping someone, but the fact is the help they provide is on the stooge's terms.  Cassim wanted to destroy Balbaad.  Al-Tharem helped him to do it.  They didn't manipulate him into doing it.  He came to his own conclusions and set his own goals.



I see you show your infamous lack of reading comprehension in order to deny a fact:


It was a member of Al Thamen who planted the seeds of rebellion in Cassim and the Fog Troupe. The idea to rebel wasn't Cassim in fact he and the fog troupe thought of themselves as powerless, until the member of Al Thamen came and manipulated them by putting the idea into their heads. 



> False.  Al Thamen is using Kou as a vehicle, but Kou has it's own goals and directions.  None of which Al Thamen has undermined.  Not even Judar's war declaration went against Kou, since Judar is officially the oracle of Kou and they didn't bother to reprimand or contradict his actions.



Wrong.


Gyoken is the leader of Al Thamen and is also the chief manipulator behind the Kou empire, *she* is the one in control of both. The Ren siblings are not nor have they ever been in control of the country.

In fact the Kou Empire's power is only due to the interference of the Al Thamen.





> False.  Her relationship with the 2nd Emperor is mostly unknown.  Frankly, all indications are that he had full authority and merely continued the 1st Emperor's goal unification.



Again, false


She married the second emperor, who was her puppet.




> True.  So was the weapon merchant and they both offered their services to Cassim and the King unconditionally.  And Al Thamen told no lies when dealing with either group.  That their patrons didn't ask questions is their fault, not Al Thamen's


.

Wrong. The person who offered the help to Cassim wasn't a merchant but an agent from Al Thamen.
*Spoiler*: __ 



[/IMG]


 Also once again you don't show your lack of understanding of the word manipulation. It was the weapon dealer that gave the Fog Troupe the idea to start a revolution in the first place.



> On behalf of Kou.  Kou had it's sights set on Balbaad for some time.  The pressure Kou exerted did not give the king peace of mind which may have played a part in his poor health.  (That his heirs were assholes probably didn't help either.)



Which is being controlled by the Al Thamen, while Kouen and his siblings only work with the Al Thamen due to them giving him the means he needs to "unite the world", Kouen doesn't have any power in the Kou empire itself. *He is not nor has he ever been their leader.*

Its called killing two birds with one stone, the real reason why the Kou Empire/Al Thamen have taken over the Kou empire is to be a container of darkness, it was a part of an experiment by Al Thamen But the Kou empire was also a strategic location for expanding the empire.

After it was deemed a failure it was given to general Kouen



> With the King's blessing.



Who is being controlled by Gyouken, who is the leader of Al Thamen.




> It's the King's fault for trusting him.  Even when things were clearly going from bad to worse, the King didn't care.



Alibaba's brother was weak, I'll give you that, but the manipulator is just as much at fault for the end result as the sucker who was duped. Especially if it was their intention to make things go so sour in the first place.



> It's hilarious that the pictures you post only shows a member of Al Thamen standing around doing or saying nothing.  They might want something to happen, but I'm not highlighting their goals.  I'm highlighting their methods.



So you admit to having zero reading comprehension skills? Well that certainly explains a lot about your behavior. Okay since your incapable of reading I'll tell you what they're saying. The man speaking to Cassim, during Cassim's flashback gives Cassim the idea to start a revolution by preying on his discontent with his current situation. 

The Al Thamen are talking about the fact that they were using the Balbaad as an experiment to create a Dark Djinn, and that they manipulated the people, they actually admit to this several times throughout the fight against Cassim.


----------



## LordPerucho (Aug 6, 2014)

I didnt like how Sheeba got fodderized....


----------



## Wesley (Aug 7, 2014)

jazz189 said:


> I see you show your infamous lack of reading comprehension in order to deny a fact:
> 
> 
> It was a member of Al Thamen who planted the seeds of rebellion in Cassim and the Fog Troupe. The idea to rebel wasn't Cassim in fact he and the fog troupe thought of themselves as powerless, until the member of Al Thamen came and manipulated them by putting the idea into their heads.



Cassim's feelings of being trash were his own.  His hatred of Alibaba was his own.  His desire for a bloody revolution was his own.  



> Gyoken is the leader of Al Thamen and is also the chief manipulator behind the Kou empire, *she* is the one in control of both. The Ren siblings are not nor have they ever been in control of the country.
> 
> In fact the Kou Empire's power is only due to the interference of the Al Thamen.



We never saw anything like that.  Besides, we know for a fact that the Kou Empire desired world conquest even with the 1st Emperor.



> Again, false
> 
> She married the second emperor, who was her puppet.



Manipulating someone is not the same as them being your puppet.  We know for a fact as that Kou is using Al Thamen..



> Wrong. The person who offered the help to Cassim wasn't a merchant but an agent from Al Thamen.



Weapon merchant or just merchant is an alias the same way banker is.



> Which is being controlled by the Al Thamen, while Kouen and his siblings only work with the Al Thamen due to them giving him the means he needs to "unite the world", Kouen doesn't have any power in the Kou empire itself. *He is not nor has he ever been their leader.*



Kouen has a lot of power in Kou.  He controls a significant portion of the military.  The Djinn-users are all loyal to him.  He's the rightful heir.  There's a reason why a civil war breaking out was a real possibility, and Gyokuen had to settle for being made Empress on a temporary basis.

Besides, Kouen seems to have had respect for his father.  If his father was merely content to be led around on a string, no one would.



> Its called killing two birds with one stone, the real reason why the Kou Empire/Al Thamen have taken over the Kou empire is to be a container of darkness, it was a part of an experiment by Al Thamen But the Kou empire was also a strategic location for expanding the empire.
> 
> After it was deemed a failure it was given to general Kouen



Okay?



> Who is being controlled by Gyouken, who is the leader of Al Thamen.



So he gave them a sense of direction.  After that all he did was give them weapons.



> Alibaba's brother was weak, I'll give you that, but the manipulator is just as much at fault for the end result as the sucker who was duped. Especially if it was their intention to make things go so sour in the first place.



It doesn't matter if he was an idiot.  He was the king.  The one who is ultimately responsible.  No excuses.  And the banker never did anything without his approval.



> So you admit to having zero reading comprehension skills? Well that certainly explains a lot about your behavior. Okay since your incapable of reading I'll tell you what they're saying. The man speaking to Cassim, during Cassim's flashback gives Cassim the idea to start a revolution by preying on his discontent with his current situation.



Hardly matters.  



> The Al Thamen are talking about the fact that they were using the Balbaad as an experiment to create a Dark Djinn, and that they manipulated the people, they actually admit to this several times throughout the fight against Cassim.



That was the goal.  Their methods are still subtle.  For all practical purposes all they did was give Cassim a ball.  He was the one that ran with it.


----------



## Rokudaime (Aug 9, 2014)

Proof that Alibaba is better king than Solomon and Sheba combined.


----------



## Kellogem (Aug 9, 2014)

could someone explain to me how does the Al Thamen dolls work they left behind when they are defeated?

I thought they are just a fake selves, but when Sindbad defeated Ithnan he apparently lost his body even though he left behind a doll as well, so why was his case special?


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## Wesley (Aug 9, 2014)

Kell?gem said:


> could someone explain to me how does the Al Thamen dolls work they left behind when they are defeated?
> 
> I thought they are just a fake selves, but when Sindbad defeated Ithnan he apparently lost his body even though he left behind a doll as well, so why was his case special?



Sinbad op?  Or maybe that was Ithnan's real body?


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## Kellogem (Aug 9, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Sinbad op?  Or maybe that was Ithnan's real body?



I doubt it was his real body since it left behind a doll and no corpse. also if it works like a substitute I have a hard time imagining Simbad being so op he can kill you even if he is not fighting the true you (maybe if it would have some soul destroying additional effect, but the attack he used on him looked like just mass destruction).


----------



## Wesley (Aug 9, 2014)

When Sinbad says he'll hit you so hard, your grand children will feel it, he means it.


----------



## Rai (Aug 14, 2014)

Magi 235 RAW: Link removed


----------



## Black Knight (Aug 14, 2014)

Absolutely esplendid chapter, the best of the arc for me.


----------



## jazz189 (Aug 14, 2014)

With the new chapter everything now makes sense, 


*Spoiler*: __ 



The Al Thamen are all tools, who follow Arba due to them being scared that they're no longer all powerful.  Even though they claimed to believe in peace and equality, in other words they're hypocrites. Sheba was the only loyal Magi to Solomon, and because of that the other magicians thought of her as a traitor to them.Ugo isn't thought of as a traitor since its likely that no one really knew that he was there.

Solomon created the new world and pull all of the other species in it, but the human magicians. This could possibly mean that none of the characters in the current world are really human, and that the Al Thamen is ironcially no better than David and his army. Wahid then sacrifices himself in order to open a way for Il Ilah, who isn't just a mindless mass of goop but really doesn't give a shit about anyone or anything. 

Interestingly enough the story frames the Al Thamen as the villians as well as in over their heads, but still think of themselves as heroes, even while the very thing that they vow to follow goes on a rampant killing spree on everyone in the vicinity.


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## Wesley (Aug 18, 2014)

Wow.  Just wow.


----------



## Mizura (Aug 18, 2014)

Sooo, basically, in this manga with Arab themes, it turns out that the main 'villain' is basically a religious extremist?

[/awkwaaard]


----------



## Thor (Aug 18, 2014)

And they worship Ill-Allah


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## Wesley (Aug 18, 2014)

Mizura said:


> Sooo, basically, in this manga with Arab themes, it turns out that the main 'villain' is basically a religious extremist?
> 
> [/awkwaaard]



Nah, it's basically what happens when a know-it-all atheist decides he knows best, becomes god, and declares everyone else to be wrong.  Religious people strike back!


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## ~VK~ (Aug 18, 2014)

So basically ugo is aladdin's adoptive father. I wonder why aladdin only acknowledges him as a "friend" when he's the person that raised him.


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## Wesley (Aug 18, 2014)

I'm going to call foul.  Arba/Gyokuen said she knew Aladdin.  How the hell can she know a fetus?  (Ironically enough, that would also make her pro-life)


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## Darth (Aug 18, 2014)

Wesley said:


> I'm going to call foul.  Arba/Gyokuen said she knew Aladdin.  How the hell can she know a fetus?  (Ironically enough, that would also make her pro-life)



She was probably just implying that she knew of his existence and the fact that he was the son of Solomon and Sheba.

Man this chapter was a clusterfuck. And this pacing just feels so rushed. I understand it's just a flashback arc and they need to move it along but, cmon mang, the whole Wahid/Falan betraying Solomon just because they lost their son was pretty lame. And Arba could hear Il-illah's voice this whole tiime? .. err okay then. That contradicts basically her entire character up until this point but w/e.


----------



## Roman (Aug 18, 2014)

I'm with Darth. This chapter made no sense to me at all. I was just barely able to make out what was happening throughout the whole thing. Basically, Ugo is Aladdin's adoptive father, everyone who was with Solomon suddenly become Djinn thanks to the metal vessels....which were only shown in one panel in one of the previous chapters with little to explain exactly what they are (or maybe I just don't remember), Gyokuen was always crazy because she always heard God's voice, Wahid betrays Solomon because he couldn't protect his son. Very little important info is revealed here in the end.


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## ClandestineSchemer (Aug 18, 2014)

Wesley said:


> I'm going to call foul.  Arba/Gyokuen said she knew Aladdin.  How the hell can she know a fetus?  (Ironically enough, that would also make her pro-life)



Your being too literal.


Darth said:


> She was probably just implying that she knew of his existence and the fact that he was the son of Solomon and Sheba.


Just listen to Darth.







Darth said:


> Man this chapter was a clusterfuck. And this pacing just feels so rushed. I understand it's just a flashback arc and they need to move it along but, cmon mang, the whole Wahid/Falan betraying Solomon just because they lost their son was pretty lame.



Yeah, this entire arc has had shit pacing. 
This should have been a spin off or something, if she wanted to go with that much detail in the backstory.




Darth said:


> And Arba could hear Il-illah's voice this whole tiime? .. err okay then. That contradicts basically her entire character up until this point but w/e.



I don't think she could actually hear god talking.
IMO, she is basically one of those deluded crazies, that kill because god told them to.


----------



## Wesley (Aug 18, 2014)

Vongola King said:


> So basically ugo is aladdin's adoptive father. I wonder why aladdin only acknowledges him as a "friend" when he's the person that raised him.



Aladdin's wish was for him to have a "friend".  Not a father.



ClandestineSchemer said:


> Your being too literal.



Not really.  The way Gyokuen spoke it was of she knew him personally.

Link removed

"I know you very well"?  Part of the reason why I assumed that Aladdin would play a significant role in this arc, that he would be the traitor, is because Aladdin was implied to have been active in Alma Toran.  That Gyokuen knew him.  For him to be a fetus that Gyokuen barely even knew of doesn't make sense in the context in which she spoke of him previously.



Freedan said:


> Basically, Ugo is Aladdin's adoptive father, everyone who was with Solomon suddenly become Djinn thanks to the metal vessels....which were only shown in one panel in one of the previous chapters with little to explain exactly what they are (or maybe I just don't remember), Gyokuen was always crazy because she always heard God's voice, Wahid betrays Solomon because he couldn't protect his son. Very little important info is revealed here in the end.



The Metal Vessels are the Divine Staves that Solomon's close friends and the racial leaders wielded in the war against the Orthodox.  After the war, they were transformed into Metal Vessels that would fuel magically power to each of the countries that the different species had founded throughout the world.

We found out who was the Medium that destroyed Alma Toran.  In fact, there seem to have been several Mediums and Solomon and his Djinn were able to defeat them, but in the end Wahid brought down the apocalypse so he could search for his son (in hell) and save the woman he loved.  Wahid was pretty awesome, destroying two Djinn and bringing about the end of the world for the sake of his woman.

We also learned that Solomon seems to consider what he did to be a mistake.  Apparently having his world destroyed was actually a humbling experience.  Go figure.



Darth said:


> the whole Wahid/Falan betraying Solomon just because they lost their son was pretty lame.



Solomon sent their son to hell.  That was an injustice, even if they weren't Tess's parents.



> And Arba could hear Il-illah's voice this whole tiime? .. err okay then. That contradicts basically her entire character up until this point but w/e.



Eh, technically we don't know who's voice she was hearing.  She might not even know for sure.  I think there is enough reason to believe that the "voice" she hears is David's.  Not that it really matters.

All in all, it was pretty darn cool.  The assembly of Solomon's Households.  Seeing the Djinn fighting with Al Tharem's armies.  The final exchanges between Arba and Solomon and Falan and Wahid.  And now it's time to move on to see how Ugo gathers the survivors and moves them to a new world.


----------



## Roman (Aug 18, 2014)

Wesley said:


> The Metal Vessels are the Divine Staves that Solomon's close friends and the racial leaders wielded in the war against the Orthodox.  After the war, they were transformed into Metal Vessels that would fuel magically power to each of the countries that the different species had founded throughout the world.



Right. It still doesn't explain how they became Djinn as the chapter just says "they became Djinn thanks to their metal vessels" which kinda feels like a cop-out.



Wesley said:


> We found out who was the Medium that destroyed Alma Toran.  In fact, there seem to have been several Mediums and Solomon and his Djinn were able to defeat them, but in the end Wahid brought down the apocalypse so he could search for his son (in hell) and save the woman he loved.  Wahid was pretty awesome, destroying two Djinn and bringing about the end of the world for the sake of his woman.



Wait, which Djinn did Wahid destroy? The black Djinn or Solomon's? Sorry if this is a bit of an obviously stupid question, the whole chapter was a clusterfuck of bad pacing, but I would think Wahid wouldn't want the apocalypse i.e. Il Illah destroying Solomon's world to be stopped O_o



Wesley said:


> We also learned that Solomon seems to consider what he did to be a mistake.  Apparently having his world destroyed was actually a humbling experience.  Go figure.


----------



## Mizura (Aug 18, 2014)

I dunno, it all made sense to me. Keep in mind that I'm not a huge Magi fan, so I'm not trying to defend it just because.

About everyone becoming Djinn, Aladdin already mentioned that before:
 (still doesn't say How but hey, magic!)

Wahid/Falan:

^ basically, yeah, the rukh of their son was sealed away along with Ill Ilah's main body. Honestly, David must have had this in mind when he killed all those people.

Gyokuen knowing Aladdin: well yeah, in the vague sense that she knows the truth about his origins.

Gyokuen hearing voices: well she was always a crazy bitch going on and on about Father. Besides, she did hear him once, kind of, along with everyone else:

Since she kind of knows about the flow of destiny (and because she isn't quite right in the head either), I do think that qualifies as hearing stuff.


----------



## Gunners (Aug 18, 2014)

Darth said:


> She was probably just implying that she knew of his existence and the fact that he was the son of Solomon and Sheba.
> 
> Man this chapter was a clusterfuck. And this pacing just feels so rushed. I understand it's just a flashback arc and they need to move it along but, cmon mang, the whole Wahid/Falan betraying Solomon *just because* they lost their son was pretty lame. And Arba could hear Il-illah's voice this whole tiime? .. err okay then. That contradicts basically her entire character up until this point but w/e.


Losing their son isn't some small trifle, especially when it results from actions influenced by deceit.


----------



## Santí (Aug 18, 2014)

Darth said:


> And Arba could hear Il-illah's voice this whole tiime? .. err okay then. That contradicts basically her entire character up until this point but w/e.



wut.

You eat that spoonful of shit at face value? 

You know better than to look at her as anything more than a deluded nut. I'm deeply disappointed in you.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Aug 18, 2014)

Damn what a chapter....


----------



## Kellogem (Aug 18, 2014)

so Wahid kicked the bucket huh?

such a shame, I was looking forward to see him in al thamen..

also poor Falan.. these 2 went through some shit.. I feel with them more then with Solomon or Sheba.. true heroes

and I wonder what are those multiple eyed monsters al thamen are riding on.. a species sided with them, or something related to the black rukh.. ?


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Aug 18, 2014)

Kell?gem said:


> and I wonder what are those multiple eyed monsters al thamen are riding on.. a species sided with them, or something related to the black rukh.. ?



Black rukh, considering all the other species were living the dream and had no reason to rebel.


----------



## Kellogem (Aug 18, 2014)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> Black rukh, considering all the other species were living the dream and had no reason to rebel.



but when they run out of black rukh Ugo (I think) specifically said "look, the black djinns are disappearing".. and they showed two 3 eyes black djinn.

so unless those winged things were black djinns as well (doubt it cause they werent even black) they were unaffected by the depletion of the black rukh (otherwise Ugo would have said the monsters are disappearing or something along the lines).


----------



## Wesley (Aug 18, 2014)

Freedan said:


> Wait, which Djinn did Wahid destroy? The black Djinn or Solomon's? Sorry if this is a bit of an obviously stupid question, the whole chapter was a clusterfuck of bad pacing, but I would think Wahid wouldn't want the apocalypse i.e. Il Illah destroying Solomon's world to be stopped O_o



Solomon's Djinn.  Looked like it was the multi-headed one.


----------



## Darth (Aug 18, 2014)

Gunners said:


> Losing their son isn't some small trifle, especially when it results from actions influenced by deceit.


Well it wasn't deceit from Solomon's end. He did pretty much exactly what he set out to do. They just weren't satisfied with the world that he believed in, which btw, they also believed in for the entirety of the rebellion. Not his fault that David was a fucker. Poor reasoning all around tbh.


Sant? said:


> wut.
> 
> You eat that spoonful of shit at face value?
> 
> You know better than to look at her as anything more than a deluded nut. I'm deeply disappointed in you.



wat.

I'm just saying that her rambling didn't make any sense. And yeah she's insane I get it. Santi pls.


----------



## Kellogem (Aug 18, 2014)

Wait, Wahid destroyed a djinn?

I though he jumped in front of Falan canceling out the ice attack with his fire, than while dying from the second wave of ice attacks he was calling out for Ill Illah.

also I thought that was actually 3 djinns attacking him.


----------



## Wesley (Aug 18, 2014)

Kell?gem said:


> Wait, Wahid destroyed a djinn?
> 
> I though he jumped in front of Falan canceling out the ice attack with his fire, than while dying from the second wave of ice attacks he was calling out for Ill Illah.
> 
> also I thought that was actually 3 djinns attacking him.



My mistake.

So I have a theory that the reason why Solomon regained his sense of self was because enough people had died that the Rukh had returned to the flow, allowing him to become a person again.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Aug 24, 2014)

> now some news for Magi.
> If you happen to read the Chinese scans that are released every Friday or so, you'll notice that they weren't released. In fact, you can't find spoilers anywhere. Suffice to say, we have not yet received this week's chapter either. From what we know, it looks like due to Japan's piracy crackdown, the publishers have decided to not to ship out the magazines until a few days before release (i.e. Wednesday). As such, we expect our raws to come in either Monday or Tuesday and then release hopefully for Wednesday. Most of our group's work is done on the weekends, so we'll see how this goes. Please be patient with us for the next little while.



arge explosion and shockwave


----------



## Wesley (Aug 24, 2014)

Alibaba's dad is a bro.


----------



## ensoriki (Aug 25, 2014)

Shes just reminding us that Alibaba is the best character in this world,


----------



## Rai (Aug 25, 2014)

Magi 236 RAW: The Gamer Ch.51


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Aug 25, 2014)

ensoriki said:


> Shes just reminding us that Alibaba is the best character in this world,




I like Alibaba, but your seriously making me hate him with your fanboying.
Just chill with the fangasms, until he actually does something or at the very least shows up in a chapter.


----------



## Wesley (Aug 25, 2014)

Magical...FETUS!!!  How we worship thee~!  How you shine upon us with your fetal liiiggghhhttt~!


----------



## JGr (Aug 25, 2014)

Ugo really walking around with a fetus...


----------



## Stannis (Aug 25, 2014)

i can't for the life of me make shit from what happened in this arc 

were al thamen the good guys after all


----------



## ensoriki (Aug 25, 2014)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> I like Alibaba, but your seriously making me hate him with your fanboying.
> Just chill with the fangasms, until he actually does something or at the very least shows up in a chapter.



Hate on, its more interesting that way.

Ugo walking with Alladdin is beyond weird right now.


----------



## ~VK~ (Aug 25, 2014)

I felt pretty uncomfortable looking at ugo talking and walking with a floating fetus..


----------



## Ftg07 (Aug 25, 2014)

Lol Ugo and the floating fetus....


----------



## Wesley (Aug 25, 2014)

"hey, guys, I'm taking my fetus for a walk"


----------



## Grumpy Zoro (Aug 26, 2014)

Holy shit can this flashback fuckin' end already? Ugo crying like a bitch and then fuckin' walking with a fetus. WTF.

Outside of some new info this is what I will do with this whole arc:


----------



## Wesley (Aug 26, 2014)

And apparently Koumei's Djinn is a horny girl with big sharp teeth.  No wonder he's tired all the time.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Aug 26, 2014)

So why Magi doesn't have a sub section in here yet? it is not popular enough? not enough fan service? too many words? what is the problem with that? 

Magi had the best MotM the first time the manga got it.


----------



## Kellogem (Aug 26, 2014)

floating fetus, the tamagochi of alma toran..


----------



## ensoriki (Aug 26, 2014)

Grumpy Zoro said:


> Holy shit can this flashback fuckin' end already? Ugo crying like a bitch and then fuckin' walking with a fetus. WTF.
> 
> Outside of some new info this is what I will do with this whole arc:



Ive been waiting to get to the fucking present since this shit began.
Like part of the hype was lost because Hakuryuu isnt here and the bulk of this is finding just how far her insanity started.

I've got more interest in how present based characters react to the knowledge then the knowledge itself.
Aladdin is the real "Prince" of the world if you take it in, but I bet characters will just brush this off...
The Finalis are significantly lacking in the background story, which still leaves wonder to wtf is the deal about them.
Where the fuck did these Dungeons come from? The creatures inside are what from the old world or all are artificial constructs from Ugo? 
Why is Aladdin making Alibaba King anyways? Does that goal even still fly? Alibaba doesn't want to be a King. Frankly if anything having a King did nothing of significance for Alma Toran.
Wtf kind of decision is this pushing Kouen towards if any at all? There is enough that has happened to let him thoughts run...

Majority of shit I care about is being put aside for a chapter of Ugo & the magical fetus. Wouldn't be so bad if there was just some present reactions slipped into the past....


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Aug 26, 2014)

ensoriki said:


> Ive been waiting to get to the fucking present since this shit began.
> Like part of the hype was lost because Hakuryuu isnt here and the bulk of this is finding just how far her insanity started.
> 
> I've got more interest in how present based characters react to the knowledge then the knowledge itself.
> ...




Personally, I'm betting the dungeons are the mind control towers/outposts.


----------



## Wesley (Aug 26, 2014)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> Personally, I'm betting the dungeons are the mind control towers/outposts.



It'd make sense for the various species to build homes on top of the cities they were forced to build for the magicians.


----------



## Ftg07 (Aug 27, 2014)

Still no translations?


----------



## Wesley (Aug 28, 2014)

I feel like I'm going crazy.


----------



## Darth (Aug 28, 2014)

Just one more day guys. You can wait one more day.


----------



## ~VK~ (Aug 29, 2014)

Ugh too much ugo patheticness in this chapter. You really have hit rock bottom if a fetus is a better leader than you.


----------



## Magnum Miracles (Aug 29, 2014)

ftg07 said:


> Still no translations?



No wonder I haven't seen a chapter for a while .


----------



## ~VK~ (Aug 29, 2014)

Magnum Miracles said:


> No wonder I haven't seen a chapter for a while .



Chapter's out though: The Gamer Ch.52


----------



## Imagine (Aug 29, 2014)

Vongola King said:


> Ugh too much ugo patheticness in this chapter. You really have hit rock bottom if a fetus is a better leader than you.


Not if it's the fetus of King Solomon and Queen Sheba.


----------



## Xin (Aug 29, 2014)

Ugo the best.


----------



## Drakor (Aug 29, 2014)

Vongola King said:


> Ugh too much ugo patheticness in this chapter. You really have hit rock bottom if a fetus is a better leader than you.


Think about it this way, while Ugo himself had no true charisma he still succeeded in using their feelings about Solomon and Sheba as a way to calm them. Wisely using Aladdin who should have some of their rukh since he's their son was the best option, even if he was just a mere bank of information everyone had access to. 

Besides, being a good leader doesn't mean anything if your plans cannot be put into fruition. Ugo was the power to make things happen while Aladdin served as the figurehead with everyone glued to his existence praying for a better future.


----------



## ~VK~ (Aug 29, 2014)

@Drakor Ugo made it sound like aladdin would be a copy of solomon, but why would this calm them down? If they take a look at the world for a second they would know that solomon failed horribly so why would his supposed carbon copy son becoming their leader calm and unite them?


----------



## ~VK~ (Aug 29, 2014)

Imagine said:


> Not if it's the fetus of King Solomon and Queen Sheba.



You've got a point there, but still it's frustrating to see ugo cry and whine for the majority of this chapter. I would've liked if he manned up a little.


----------



## SoulTaker (Aug 29, 2014)

I think the chapter made it clear that Ugo was just jedi mind tricking the masses to buy time for him to find a solution to the world being dead. Not sure that's him being pathetic.


----------



## Santí (Aug 29, 2014)

Vongola King said:


> @Drakor Ugo made it sound like aladdin would be a copy of solomon, but why would this calm them down? If they take a look at the world for a second they would know that solomon failed horribly so why would his supposed carbon copy son becoming their leader calm and unite them?



Something something learning through the mistakes of your predecessors.

Something something loyalty.


----------



## Santí (Aug 29, 2014)

Also no one in their right mind would blame the devastated land on Solomon himself, when it was the act of a select few in a bat-shit insane occult who, without Solomon's intervention, would have taken the lives of all the species as well. There wouldn't even be any world for them to "take a look at for a second".

The fact that they're still alive is enough to unite them under Solomon's visage.


----------



## Xin (Aug 29, 2014)

SoulTaker said:


> I think the chapter made it clear that Ugo was just jedi mind tricking the masses to buy time for him to find a solution to the world being dead. Not sure that's him being pathetic.



This. 

And no, this is Ugo being a genius as always.


----------



## Wesley (Aug 29, 2014)

By "man up" do you mean yell and shout at everyone and demand their obedience?  You know, Solomon was every bit as indecisive as Ugo and he had the support of his friends.  Do you think that Solomon being silent and brooding is any more productive than Ugo hiding under a blanket and trying to come up with something?

I rather liked seeing the Djinn.  Especially we got to see two new ones.  Kougyokou's Vinea and Koumei's Dantalion.  Vinea is the least humanoid of all the Djinn we've seen, even though we know she had limbs prior to being a Djinn.  Dantalion is apparently a beautiful lady, but I wonder if she is dressed?  Phenex and Paimon are naked, while Lejare is clothed, even if skimpy.

Speaking of Lejare, I want her to meet Sinbad so bad.  I think it'd be freakin' hilarious.

I guess next chapter we'll see what kind of world Ugo has in mind.  Hopefully we'll learn where the different species went and why.


----------



## Drakor (Aug 29, 2014)

Wesley said:


> I guess next chapter we'll see what kind of world Ugo has in mind.  Hopefully we'll learn where the different species went and why.


IMO, I believe the multiple pocket dimensions known as "Dungeons" is their new world.

I just can't figure if he linked the one Alma Toran existed in to the world we know of, which would make the "Great Rift" have more meaning as its a void returning people to the destroyed world or to the respective "Dungeon" they will belong to.


----------



## Wesley (Aug 29, 2014)

Drakor said:


> IMO, I believe the multiple pocket dimensions known as "Dungeons" is their new world.
> 
> I just can't figure if he linked the one Alma Toran existed in to the world we know of, which would make the "Great Rift" have more meaning as its a void returning people to the destroyed world or to the respective "Dungeon" they will belong to.



We know that the different species seemed to become more human-like after Solomon became king.  We know that different species can breed with one another even before Alma Torran was destroyed (Zapor is implied to be the child of Phenex and Astaroth).  We know that a Fanalist that we still haven't seen hide nor tail of can have a child with a human from the current world.

And the only living things in the dungeons were the Djinn.  Everything else was an artificial creature created by the djinn.  There weren't any people in there.

I think Ugo decided to turn everyone into humans so that they would not fight in the new world.


----------



## Black Knight (Sep 1, 2014)




----------



## Wesley (Sep 1, 2014)

Ugh.   I hope people aren't horribly distracted by the reveal of Aladdin's origins and ignore everything else that happened.


----------



## Fourangers (Sep 1, 2014)

wat.

Vol 3 chapter 23 already revealed that Aladdin is Solomon's child:

Link removed


----------



## Wesley (Sep 2, 2014)

Fourangers said:


> wat.
> 
> Vol 3 chapter 23 already revealed that Aladdin is Solomon's child:



I mean in the story.  If Alibaba's mind is blown by the fact that Aladdin is a prince from another world, instead of circumstances that lead up to the destruction of said world, that'd be seriously missing the point.


----------



## convict (Sep 2, 2014)

Wesley said:


> I mean in the story.  If Alibaba's mind is blown by the fact that *Aladdin is a prince from another world*, instead of circumstances that lead up to the destruction of said world, that'd be seriously missing the point.



Aladdin wouldn't just be the prince from another world. He is that other world's Jesus. Maybe that's why he has such Sue like qualities.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 2, 2014)

convict said:


> Aladdin wouldn't just be the prince from another world. He is that other world's Jesus. Maybe that's why he has such Sue like qualities.



1.) That's a lie Ugo told the masses that Aladdin does not seem to have omitted from the story.

2.) If the main characters obsess over Aladdin and the mean people that killed his parents and destroyed his world, that would confirm that Aladdin is a sue.  The real lesson to take from the story is that trampling over the beliefs of others and asserting your own, even if you are king, will only lead to dire circumstances.  The personal significance of what happened to one small boy is completely irrelevant.


----------



## Ftg07 (Sep 2, 2014)

So its finally over


----------



## Rai (Sep 2, 2014)

Magi 237 RAW: Link removed


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Sep 2, 2014)

Wesley said:


> 2.) If the main characters obsess over Aladdin and the mean people that killed his parents and destroyed his world, that would confirm that Aladdin is a sue.  .




Considering the people gathered are kings, who are trying to assert their belief on the world, this is probably the likely outcome.
Just because people don't want to admit their own faults and focus on something else like real people do, doesn't mean Aladdin is a sue.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 2, 2014)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> Considering the people gathered are kings, who are trying to assert their belief on the world, this is probably the likely outcome.
> Just because people don't want to admit their own faults and focus on something else like real people do, doesn't mean Aladdin is a sue.



Aladdin's a sue because he avoids criticism and has a disproportionate amount of influence and credibility.  If people actually give a shit about Aladdin's part in the story he told, that would confirm he's a sue.  The story wasn't even about him, but that's what people take from it?

We will see.  Hopefully we will see them actually discuss the story and how it relates to what's currently going on in the world.


----------



## Ftg07 (Sep 2, 2014)

Can anyone tell what happened in the raws?


----------



## Wesley (Sep 2, 2014)

Ugo used the trans dimensional space elevator to ferry all of the people from Alma Torran to the new world.  Apparently Paimon has legs when it suits her (I failed to notice if she wore pants).  That's as far as I got before I couldn't load any more pics from the site lol


----------



## Fourangers (Sep 2, 2014)

Wesley said:


> I mean in the story.  If Alibaba's mind is blown by the fact that Aladdin is a prince from another world, instead of circumstances that lead up to the destruction of said world, that'd be seriously missing the point.



Oh. Sorry.  I wasn't following your post, I was re-reading Magi when I noticed this blatant spoiler right at the beginning and I wanted to share.


----------



## Rai (Sep 2, 2014)

Magi Volume 23 Art:


----------



## Wesley (Sep 2, 2014)

That was a great chapter.  How does she cram so much into so little?


----------



## MrCinos (Sep 2, 2014)

Knowing her fate the cover feels a bit depressing to me.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 2, 2014)

Sheva is timeless.  She does not have a beginning or an end.  She just is.


----------



## Black Knight (Sep 2, 2014)

As if this is going to be the last time we see Sheba. She's far more important than Solomon in what concerns Aladdin and his mission.


----------



## Black Knight (Sep 2, 2014)

The chapter reveals Sheba transferred all her rukh into her son Aladdin. This explains Gyokuen's "Long time no see, Aladdin", and "let's finish this, as fellow Magi from Alma Toran".

Just for those who still don't understand I'll put it more simple: Sheba lives inside Aladdin, and Gyokuen felt her rukh back during the climax of the Magnostatt arc.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 2, 2014)

That's creepy.  I don't think I could go to the bathroom knowing I have my mom's soul inside of me.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 3, 2014)

New chapter is out.

I feel kind of ashamed.  It'd never occurred to me that the Torans were the original inhabitants from the old world.  I guess this means that they're the only "true" humans left.

I guess it's confirmed that Solomon turned everyone into humans.  Also seems that his influence is reduced toward the far south, either because it won't/can't reach it or because the Finalists and the Origin Dragon are opposed to it.  Either way it seems that the Finalist survived the end of the world pretty much on their own.

Aladdin is only 10 or so years old.  He spent most of his life as a fetus for thousands of years.  Before I had the impression that he'd spent centuries there in isolation until he made his wish to have a friend?


----------



## SinRaven (Sep 3, 2014)

One chapter, so many answers. 

Hm. Did the Origin Dragon get mentioned in the 'original' story as well or just in the Flashback? I wonder if there are some things we haven't noticed regarding him, he seems to be of some importance.


----------



## Santí (Sep 3, 2014)

I think Origin Dragon was in Muu Alexius' story to Morgiana about the other side of the rift, along with the Red Lions, but I don't recall an actual direct mention of him verbally.


----------



## ~Avant~ (Sep 3, 2014)

Origin Dragon is Sinbad calling it now


----------



## ensoriki (Sep 3, 2014)

~Avant~ said:


> Origin Dragon is Sinbad calling it now



The dragon & Finalists are too powerful. If Sinbad was the dragon this should have physically manifested itself.
Look at Finalist now. They're basically sealed and yet are superhuman.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 3, 2014)

The origin dragon was not shown until the flashback arc.

Also Sinbad is such a cockblocker.  Alibaba brought up the topic of marrying Kougyokou, but we never got to see her response because that idiot had to show off his metal vessel power.


----------



## Drakor (Sep 3, 2014)

Origin Dragon is probably Yunan, considering that is the exact same rift as in the previous dimension. Yunan is a special case and always retains its memories from previous lives, currently residing in the 9th body. Then the fact Ugo while not able to contain Fanalist and the Origin Dragon fully, was still able to give them human forms just that he put them towards the Dark Continent. It just all clicks if you think of it in that manner, especially being the "guardian of the rift".

I just can't see Ugo constantly resurrecting Yunan if it wasn't.


----------



## The_Evil (Sep 3, 2014)

So who were Torans again? When were they mentioned?


Also, is flashback arc over?


----------



## Wesley (Sep 3, 2014)

The_Evil said:


> So who were Torans again? When were they mentioned?
> 
> 
> Also, is flashback arc over?



The Torans were the tribe that lived on the island near where Zagan's dungeon spawned.  

Since this latest chapter ended with Aladdin's wish to befriend Ugo and that is where he was right before meeting the trading caravan and the bandit girl, I'd say so.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Sep 3, 2014)

I really enjoyed this chapter. A lot of info. I have a lot of questions too. Ugo made a lot of mistakes when moving the survivors to the new world. He was not powerful enough to seal powers and memories to a good amount of them.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 3, 2014)

So you think he should have left the Toran (magicians) and the Finalists back on Alma Toran?


----------



## Black Knight (Sep 3, 2014)

Would have never guessed the reason why Aladdin is a Magi was due to he having his mother's soul (rukh) dwelling inside.


----------



## ensoriki (Sep 3, 2014)

Drakor said:


> Origin Dragon is probably Yunan, considering that is the exact same rift as in the previous dimension. Yunan is a special case and always retains its memories from previous lives, currently residing in the 9th body. Then the fact Ugo while not able to contain Fanalist and the Origin Dragon fully, was still able to give them human forms just that he put them towards the Dark Continent. It just all clicks if you think of it in that manner, especially being the "guardian of the rift".
> 
> I just can't see Ugo constantly resurrecting Yunan if it wasn't.



Doubt it. Everything in the Dark continent probably has a long lifespan, ressurrecting Yunan just prevents them from having to deal with external change.

The reactions to all this are important.

What will they decide about Gyoukouen she is what a possibly 2000+ year old relic of the past? That killed Kou leaders, and brought about the end of the old world & plans the same for the current. It be crazy to me if Kouen isn't trying to figure out how to kill her immediately.

Aladdin was the "presumed" inheritor of the current world. The "royalty" here is kind of all beneath him as far as the Flow is concerned.
With that being said why can't he lead them? Is there any doubt within them that Aladdin might take their role? Granted it feels like quite a few here (alibaba, Kou brothers, Muu) dont really want to rule. Would be interesting if some sort of jealousy towards Aladdin took fruit here.

The four Magi are supposed to choose a King. Aladdin basically has more "authority" then the other three given his place in the Flow. Are we going to see the Kings candidates actually you know competing against each other? Muu is still talking that he will be subservant but the conclusion of this arc is that he's been found potentially worthy of unifying everyone. Would hope the convictions and motivations of these characters has stepped up as a result.



Black Knight said:


> Would have never guessed the reason why Aladdin is a Magi was due to he having his mother's soul (rukh) dwelling inside.



I dont believe it is literally her rukh. He's her offspring and he was technically present when the three of Alma Toran became Magi. Given he was in her body...he should of been made a Magi from that point in time.


----------



## ~Greed~ (Sep 3, 2014)

I also think its likely that Yunan is the origin dragon. It seems to strongly be hinting at that to me.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 4, 2014)

Aladdin is no more royalty than Granny from the Kouga tribe.


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Sep 4, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Aladdin is no more royalty than Granny from the Kouga tribe.



Granny is an elder of a village of a once proud empire.
Aladdin is the son of a King and a Queen.
So, yes he is.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 4, 2014)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> Granny is an elder of a village of a once proud empire.
> Aladdin is the son of a King and a Queen.
> So, yes he is.



Granny was the daughter of the last Kouga Emperor.  She was a princess.  The kingdom Aladdin hails from is even more defunct than the Kouga Empire.


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Sep 4, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Granny was the daughter of the last Kouga Emperor.  She was a princess.  The kingdom Aladdin hails from is even more defunct than the Kouga Empire.




Ugo is pretty much ruling the world in the background and the Djin are loyal to him.
Also they are in the old world, so while small, his kingdom is technically still existent.
His father also influences everyone in the new world, that isn't in a state of depravity.

Aladdin could rule the new world, if he wanted.
Hell, in this chapter Ugo said that the cosmos is his to command.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 4, 2014)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> Ugo is pretty much ruling the world in the background and the Djin are loyal to him.
> Also they are in the old world, so while small, his kingdom is technically still existent.
> His father also influences everyone in the new world, that isn't in a state of depravity.
> 
> ...



The Djinn are not loyal to Ugo.  They cooperate with him.  They're peers and there is enough reason to believe that they're capable of disagreements and infighting.

Aladdin cannot rule the new world, as that would be breaking the rules of the world.  Magi serve the king, they are not the king.  There are only 3 Magi of the world.  A magi from another world goes against this rule.

Ugo was not being literal.  He was being figurative.  There is no indication whatsoever that Ugo or the other Djinn could pull anything like that off.

Aladdin could no more rule the world than Sherazade could rule Reim.


----------



## Butcher (Sep 4, 2014)

We're getting back to current Magi next week, hopefully. Can't wait to see the main cast again.

Also, I myself think this is the best arc in Magi. I really loved Sheba and Solomon too.

Ugo was pretty cool around the end too.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 8, 2014)

"And everyone swore allegiance to Aladdin."


----------



## Rai (Sep 8, 2014)

RAW: Link removed


----------



## Wesley (Sep 8, 2014)

Alibaba.  I am disappoint.  All he cared about was seeing Aladdin in a new light.  And Aladdin himself doesn't seem to give a shit about who is parents are so either he already knew or as usual he's not bothered by the things going on around him.  So yeah, Alibaba is Aladdin's bitch.


----------



## Shukumei (Sep 8, 2014)

Not quite the reactions I expected


----------



## Fourangers (Sep 8, 2014)

*Spoiler*: __ 



They are still taking time to absorb all this information.

Alibaba and Morgianna saw about all that Aladdin had suffered and swore that they will help him like a true comrade and friend.

And then Aladdin asked them the 3 empires to stop the war, or at least briefly ally to fight against Al-thamen.

People around them were like "don't they need some time to calmly think about it and come up with a decision."

But then the 7 generals said "No, just look at their expressions, they already decided what they are going to do."

and that was the end of this chapter


----------



## Wesley (Sep 8, 2014)

Fourangers said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Aladdin didn't suffer at all.

Al Tharem are practically a boogie man compared to the very real threats the Kou, Reim, and the Seven Seas Alliance represent to one another.


----------



## ensoriki (Sep 9, 2014)

Wesley said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What boogie men?
They know Al thamen can cause the end of this world.
The group already killed off the old world.

Kou already knows Gyoukuen is fucked up and now they're gonna put it together "oh shit she killed her sons, killed my father, shes at my fucking dinner table. Screw that.".

They all've been affected by Al-thamen schemers at some point. Sinbads seen the threat.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 9, 2014)

ensoriki said:


> What boogie men?
> They know Al thamen can cause the end of this world.
> The group already killed off the old world.
> 
> ...



En said it himself; he's growing a monster in his body and he's going to use that monsters strength to achieve his goals.  If En were to turn on Gyokuen, he'd lose support for war against Sinbad.

And Al Tharem has existed for over a 1000 years or more.  They obviously can't destroy the world any time they wish.  What's more, how do you even fight against them?  They can disappear whenever they wish, changing their identities even.

This is supposed to be a peace conference and Aladdin is basically asking one of the major parties to shoot himself in the foot so that the other two can take advantage of him.  He's also just revealed himself as the heir apparent to the freakin' world.  Do you think Mu, Sinbad, and En are going to be happy being ordered around by him?  I should hope not!


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Sep 9, 2014)

Wesley said:


> So yeah, Alibaba is Aladdin's bitch.




It took you 200+ chapters, but you finally noticed this.

Congratulations.
After all the scenes showing just how much Alibaba relies and needs Aladdin failed to convince you, I thought you would never realize this.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 9, 2014)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> It took you 200+ chapters, but you finally noticed this.
> 
> Congratulations.
> After all the scenes showing just how much Alibaba relies and needs Aladdin failed to convince you, I thought you would never realize this.



Up until the war arc, Aladdin never had any goals.  I didn't mind Alibaba needing help or advice, but it's clear now that the only character that actually matters in this forsaken story is Aladdin!  Alibaba and Morgiana are fodder for him.


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Sep 9, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Up until the war arc, Aladdin never had any goals.  I didn't mind Alibaba needing help or advice, but it's clear now that the only character that actually matters in this forsaken story is Aladdin!  Alibaba and Morgiana are fodder for him.




A guy who wishes to restore his kingdom.
A girl who wants to belong somewhere.
And a kid who is shouldering the fate of the world, since the beginning.

It was obvious as fuck, where the main interest of the story would lay.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 9, 2014)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> A guy who wishes to restore his kingdom.
> A girl who wants to belong somewhere.
> And a kid who is shouldering the fate of the world, since the beginning.
> 
> It was obvious as fuck, where the main interest of the story would lay.



No, actually, the early emphasis was on Magi and their King candidates.  That held true until this arc where Aladdin was virtually declared to be the king of the world.


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Sep 9, 2014)

Aladdin was an exception form the start as the fourth magi.
Not my fault, if you can't read which char held the most emphasis in the story.

Hell, the Kouga arc should have easily told you he was the focus of the trio.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 9, 2014)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> Aladdin was an exception form the start as the fourth magi.
> Not my fault, if you can't read which char held the most emphasis in the story.
> 
> Hell, the Kouga arc should have easily told you he was the focus of the trio.



No, he wasn't.  He was the observer.  He did nothing until he smacked down Ruso.


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Sep 9, 2014)

Wesley said:


> No, he wasn't.  He was the observer.  He did nothing until he smacked down Ruso.



So it was another carpet riding kid, that got both sides talking to each other.
You keep proving, that your reading comprehension sucks.
He was the third party in that conflict, but he definitely wasn't just an observer.

Also nice attempt to divert the fact, that he still received a solo arc.
The trio was always centered around Aladdin. 
Certainly all three are well developed and grow, but Aladdin is still the one that connects everything.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 9, 2014)

Right, whatever.  Suffice to say the manga stands to lose everything if Aladdin becomes the main character.


----------



## Kellogem (Sep 9, 2014)

looking forward to a new war..

also how Alibaba is supposed to react, does any of this actually affects his main goal? its not like he want world domination or anything.. I dont think anything Aladdin suggests is supposed to contradict his worldview.


----------



## Gunners (Sep 9, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Up until the war arc, Aladdin never had any goals.  I didn't mind Alibaba needing help or advice, but it's clear now that the only character that actually matters in this forsaken story is Aladdin!  Alibaba and Morgiana are fodder for him.


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Sep 9, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Right, whatever.  Suffice to say the manga stands to lose everything if Aladdin becomes the main character.



I'll take that as a concession.
And Aladdin was always the MC.


----------



## ~VK~ (Sep 9, 2014)

Kell?gem said:


> looking forward to a new war..
> 
> also how Alibaba is supposed to react, does any of this actually affects his main goal? its not like he want world domination or anything.. I dont think anything Aladdin suggests is supposed to contradict his worldview.



Well he should rightfully be really fucking shocked. I mean his best friend just revealed he's basically the jesus of their world.


----------



## Kellogem (Sep 9, 2014)

Vongola King said:


> Well he should rightfully be really fucking shocked. I mean his best friend just revealed he's basically the jesus of their world.



true, but I meant regarding his goals and on a long run...

he had a "sugoi!" reaction anyway, I just dont see how this makes him Aladdins bitch.. he is amazed and happy for him I guess.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 9, 2014)

Kell?gem said:


> true, but I meant regarding his goals and on a long run...
> 
> he had a "sugoi!" reaction anyway, I just dont see how this makes him Aladdins bitch.. he is amazed and happy for him I guess.



The rest of the story went over Alibaba's head.  Aladdin's part in it was virtually non-existent.  He is literally the son of someone famous.  I mean, seriously, we just spent half a year on this last arc and if the only thing that anyone takes away from it is the identity of Aladdin's parents, don't you think that's just a huge waste of time?


----------



## Kellogem (Sep 9, 2014)

Wesley said:


> The rest of the story went over Alibaba's head.  Aladdin's part in it was virtually non-existent.  He is literally the son of someone famous.  I mean, seriously, we just spent half a year on this last arc and if the only thing that anyone takes away from it is the identity of Aladdin's parents, don't you think that's just a huge waste of time?



or it was just the easiest to comprehend aspect of it... If a best friend of mine would turn out to be the son of some important figure of the world, I guess my first reaction would be "woah.. thats cool" as well I guess.

doesnt mean thats Alibaba got from the whole story, more like he started to process the whole thing with that... Im sure he is going to address the more important and content heavy parts of it as well latter. people tend to look at the parts they are emotionally attached to at first - Aladdin - and the pure information latter.


----------



## ~VK~ (Sep 9, 2014)

Wesley said:


> The rest of the story went over Alibaba's head.  Aladdin's part in it was virtually non-existent.  He is literally the son of someone famous.  I mean, seriously, we just spent half a year on this last arc and if the only thing that anyone takes away from it is the identity of Aladdin's parents, don't you think that's just a huge waste of time?



If my best friend explained to me the origin's of the world and other important stuff in great detail and then at the end briefly mentions he's the son of *god* I would also primarily focus on the last bit for the time being.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 12, 2014)

So what was the point to the last arc if all Aladdin was going to do was reiterate Al Tharem's intentions, which are something everyone should know and understand by now?  It's all well and good for him to say he doesn't know if Solomon was good or evil or whatever, since the status quo is that Solomon is the god of the world and that seems impossible to change for the time being.  He can claim that they don't have to listen to him, but everything seems as though they'll go his way anyway.  Solomon controls the Djinn after all, which is what the countries are depending on for power now.

The real issue is not whether or not the world will be destroyed, but whether or not En, Mu, and Sinbad can trust each other.  En can't turn on Al Tharem without putting Kou in a disadvantageous position.  Frankly, all Aladdin has done is give Sinbad ammo to frame Kou as being the bad guys.  How can Mu or anyone support them when half of Kou's royal court wants to destroy the world?

A cease-fire agreement?  So that the metal vessel users will die of old age gradually?  Well, no, Tidus is still supporting Reim and Judar is still supporting Kou, and they might live for hundreds of years.  The 7 Seas Alliance doesn't enjoy that kind of support from a Magi.

Alibaba is about as dumb as expected.  Aladdin didn't lose anything.  Not even Ugo until that night in Balbaad when Kougyoku shoved a spear through him.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Sep 12, 2014)

Sinbad is mad evil.

Someone kill him.


----------



## LordPerucho (Sep 12, 2014)

This chapter confirmed the beginning of the end of Magi, I heard the manga will end in 2016..


----------



## Kellogem (Sep 12, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Alibaba is about as dumb as expected.  Aladdin didn't lose anything.  Not even Ugo until that night in Balbaad when Kougyoku shoved a spear through him.



He did... just the fact he wasnt aware of it doesnt change he lost them.

He had a mother, a father and his own world... if you have 100 $ in your pocket you are unaware of and I take it, you didnt lose it?

also as for Kou... couldnt they try and get rid of Al Thamen in some subtle way? what is Al Thamen in Kou exactly, Gyokuen and some adviser dudes around her? Ren could try to do a coup d'etat and get rid of his mother, it wouldnt weaken Kou much if done well.. 

Aladdin showed them the mutual enemy they had to defeat before everything, even if not all 3 parties would agree to it, if he made Reim and the 7 Seas Alliance have a cease-fire agreement and focus on Al Thamen, thats already something, and at least Kou is aware the threat as well, so there is a chance he would take some measures against them, even if he wont give in ..

..Im no good about this political stuff, so I could be wrong..


----------



## Wesley (Sep 12, 2014)

Yeah, apparently many characters will die soon.  The "peace" summit might as well be a death trap.  Instead of negotiating for mutually beneficial terms based on mutual respect, Aladdin framed the goal of the summit as one of defeating Al Tharem for the sake of saving the world.  Either he doesn't know that Al Tharem's well integrated into Kou or he doesn't care, but the fact is after saying what he did, peace is pretty much impossible.

Contrary to popular belief, "common" interests do not automatically supercede "conflicting" interests.  Even ones like saving the planet.  What's the point of saving the world if some other guy takes it over and kills or enslaves you and your people for your trouble?


----------



## Kellogem (Sep 12, 2014)

but what other choices he had? it would be nice to just kill the Al Thamen members without sacrifices and all, but its impossible... he had to gather as much people on the side opposing Al Thamen as possible, and achieve they wouldnt fight among each other at least.. then maybe they can negotiate with Kou about the terms latter -wont happen though, it would be too easy, but uniting the sides against al thamen and a ceasefire agreement is a good and logical starting point.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 12, 2014)

Kell?gem said:


> but what other choices he had? it would be nice to just kill the Al Thamen members without sacrifices and all, but its impossible... he had to gather as much people on the side opposing Al Thamen as possible, and achieve they wouldnt fight among each other at least.. then maybe they can negotiate with Kou about the terms latter -wont happen though, it would be too easy, but uniting the sides against al thamen and a ceasefire agreement is a good and logical starting point.



Al Tharem is too slippery and Kou is too invested in using them to further their goals.

The fact is Al tharem, no matter what kind of goals they might have, are not all that dangerous.  If their methods and strategies are unveiled, people might be able to counter them and stop whatever plans they might have, regardless of how, when, and where they appear.

Al Tharem is not anywhere near monolithic enough to rally against.  You might as well call for the world to unite against the very concept of evil itself.


----------



## Kellogem (Sep 12, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Al Tharem is too slippery and Kou is too invested in using them to further their goals.
> 
> The fact is Al tharem, no matter what kind of goals they might have, are not all that dangerous.  If their methods and strategies are unveiled, people might be able to counter them and stop whatever plans they might have, regardless of how, when, and where they appear.
> 
> Al Tharem is not anywhere near monolithic enough to rally against.  You might as well call for the world to unite against the very concept of evil itself.



but no one knows exactly what they are planning to do in details and how to stop them other than a war would only do them good, and if Kou would keep using them, sooner or latter they would find a way to destruct the world while the other sides are fighting each other. Aladdin can just say to Kou to keep using those guys, but if possible keep an eye on them, cause they might destroy the world... halfhearted attempts could only fail, they have to cut out the cancer. 

should he tell them not to listen to shady masked guys and not to use black metal vessels? cause I dont think they know much else about al thamens methods, they might summon another medium on their ass wherever there are enough black rukh... letting them have their way would only result more sacrifices, I doubt anyone would even take Aladdin seriously if he would only give a list to the sides what signs they should be aware of. if he says "lets not fight until we destroy these guys cause they are the worst for all of us", at least thats a clear objective.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Sep 12, 2014)

Is Wesley bitching about everything again?


----------



## Butcher (Sep 12, 2014)

Twas an ok chapter.

Can't expect it to be as good as  what we got before right from the beginning.


----------



## Furious George (Sep 12, 2014)

Caught up once more....

Good heavens, Magi is just the bee's knees.

Glad things seem to be wrapping up. Two, three  more arcs tops and a graceful bow out.


----------



## Harbour (Sep 13, 2014)

Am i the only one who like Kouen and his family much more than asshole Sinbad and his bitches?


----------



## Breadman (Sep 13, 2014)

Harbour said:


> Am i the only one who like Kouen and his family much more than asshole Sinbad and his bitches?



..............

*slowly raises hand* Well I for one- get's mowed down by Sinbad fangirls before I get a chance to speak.


Ahem.... Uhm, no! NO, Sinbad is good, and uhm..... Kouen is bad. Yeah.  

Chapter was good, nice to see Morgianna and Alibaba standing behind Aladdin in this meeting. Sure, it showed they might be a bit dependent on him, but hey, Aladdin's supposed to be this savior figure, and most often people in these types of stories often need help from the leader/king/messiah/whatever he is. But overall, nice chapter, glad the backstory is sorted out now, now we can get to seeing how the other countries will react.


----------



## Kellogem (Sep 13, 2014)

I want a Magi fighting game so badly...

maybe they should start making and announcing season 3 soon.. season 2 covered around 80 chapters.. if they would start season 3 in half of a year, 262 would be out by then and around 30 more chapters would come out meanwhile the anime is running, so in the end plenty of material for a 3rd season. the manga could reach 300 while the second season ended with 198, so the manga would be around 100 chapters ahead.

with the anime there will be higher chances of them making some good games..


----------



## Rai (Sep 13, 2014)

Magi 239 RAW:


----------



## Wesley (Sep 13, 2014)

Hm.  Things are back on track.  I wouldn't expect it to be ready before Wednesday though.  They're still working on Sinbad's chapter.


----------



## Ftg07 (Sep 13, 2014)

I always thought Judal was spying in some way.


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Sep 15, 2014)

blade come in contact with his skin

Chapter is out.

ITT: Kouen's households are morons completely out of touch with reality or anything resembling a rational thought.

Also 

Sinbad pls.


----------



## Rukia (Sep 15, 2014)

I disagree.  I think Kouen seems to be the only person talking sense right now.


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Sep 15, 2014)

I said his _households_ not Kouen.


----------



## Rukia (Sep 15, 2014)

They aren't leaders.  But there aren't a lot of leaders in Magi.  People pretty much stand around and wait for Aladdin, Solomon, Kouen, and Sinbad to make their decisions for them.


----------



## Louis Cyphre (Sep 15, 2014)

Yeah, that'd explain their lack of understanding of how the world works.  Anyway. Waiting for the clusterfuck that Judal will inevitably cause.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 15, 2014)

Louis Cyphre said:


> ITT: Kouen's households are morons completely out of touch with reality or anything resembling a rational thought.
> 
> Also
> 
> Sinbad pls.



They have a point.  Uniform culture and development with as few discrepancies as possible between people will help to bring peace and order.  Of course, even in Kou exceptions are made, with acceptable discrepancies being made into a new standard that people can fit with certain guidelines.  I'd say the example of Balbaad was an extreme one, since the country was practically sitting in ruins a few years before and bordering on anarchy.

If it came down to En or Sinbad, the actual difference isn't that great, except maybe Kou has more long term integrity than a series of alliances built upon one man.  A royal family will endure for a much longer period of time, especially when they seem to make it a policy to have such large families and have them marry into other countries and governments.

Suffice to say, the biggest idiots at the meeting were Aladdin and Sinbad.

Aladdin whether he knew it or not made Kou into bad guys by making the agenda Al Tharem, and not peaceful coexistence.  There was no way to gain Kou's cooperation in either case.  He doesn't seem to care at all about Kou's ability to defend itself or to achieve it's goals.  It's like asking them to sacrifice themselves for the greater good.  

I sincerely hope that someone points out to him how na?ve he's being.  The kid has always managed to avoid criticism and his mistakes are never acknowledged by anyone.

Sinbad of course did nothing less than Kouen's Households.  The difference being he's withholding his full intentions.  He's not saying his goal is world conquest, but for all practical purposes it is.  And in a way, that's worse than what Kou does.

So...what's Judar going to do?  You know, this guy could be one of their greatest enemies or one of their best friends.  The fact that he's gathering Black Rukh can either be a good thing or a bad thing.  The Black Rukh not being allowed to flourish and flounder throughout the world might reduce strife and keep it from being used by Al Tharem.  On the other hand, he's gathering up an awful lot of it in one singular place, readily accessible for...bad things.


----------



## Rukia (Sep 15, 2014)

Good point.  We really don't know.  Judar definitely has his own agenda though.


----------



## LordPerucho (Sep 15, 2014)

Sinbad was right, if he wants along the Kou Empire, they have to severe all ties with Al-Tharmen, you know the organization they have to get rid of.

Judar in my eyes is the Bakura of Magi.


----------



## convict (Sep 15, 2014)

I've really started abhorring Sinbad's smug face. I hope he ends up a complete villain at some point just to see his teeth pushed in.


----------



## Rukia (Sep 15, 2014)

Yeah man.  I despise Sinbad.


----------



## ~VK~ (Sep 16, 2014)

^Nah sinbad's awesome. Here's hoping this amazing bastard will be FV, kicks the asses of koen, alibaba, aladdin and whoever else is his way and becomes the one true king of the magi verse.


I'd be totally happy if magi ended like this.


----------



## convict (Sep 16, 2014)

Sometimes when an author incessantly tries to drive home how amazing a character is it goes the complete opposite direction for me.


----------



## Wrath (Sep 16, 2014)

Sinbad is definitely a stealth villain. But he'll probably end up being possessed by someone/thing else.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 16, 2014)

It's been implied that Sinbad is more interested in revenge against Al Tharem than anything.  He might have even had an earlier incarnation of Sindria destroyed by them.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Sep 16, 2014)

Sinbad is going to be the main villain for this series. write down..


----------



## Drakor (Sep 16, 2014)

Well worst case would be Al Thamen utilizing Judar's collected Black Rukh to turn Sinbad into Ill Illah's vessel, I'm still curious as to whether or not he's going to use it as a means to amplify Hakuryuu's overall capacity or not. The old magicians used that third eye "organ" to manipulate the Black Rukh, so it'd be a great way alternate source for his huge magoi consumption



Wesley said:


> It's been implied that Sinbad is more interested in revenge against Al Tharem than anything.  He might have even had an earlier incarnation of Sindria destroyed by them.



Most likely this, and the two assassins that came with Jafar in the side story may have died later on due to them as well. We know Sinbad's aim is reformation of the world and he's doing it through subtle means via alliances, pretty much like how our world has the United Nations.


----------



## Gunners (Sep 16, 2014)

Sinbad is a _Gary Stu_ done right.


----------



## Drakor (Sep 16, 2014)

Gunners said:


> Sinbad is a _Gary Stu_ done right.


He's hardly a Gary Stu considering his failures in the past and his struggle in this current story of obtaining Aladdin and connections to Balbad/Kou along with extermination of Al Thamen, not to mention the very fact he's halfway in depravity.


----------



## Black Knight (Sep 16, 2014)

Good to know someone's taste is as shitty as ever.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 16, 2014)

Drakor said:


> He's hardly a Gary Stu considering his failures in the past and his struggle in this current story of obtaining Aladdin and connections to Balbad/Kou along with extermination of Al Thamen, not to mention the very fact he's halfway in depravity.



I agree.  At least so far his development in the Sinbad manga has been credible.  He is very gifted, but being gifted doesn't make a character a Stu.  A disproportionate amount of importance in a setting, charisma levels that robs people of their good sense upon meeting them.  The fact that Sinbad has built his kingdom and gained followers in the way he is believed to have done so is credible.

On top of it all, Sinbad is not infallible and the setting doesn't treat him as though he is.  People are afraid of him.  People surprise him.  He's conflicted about what he's doing.

No, Sinbad is not a Stu.  That would be Aladdin.


----------



## Gunners (Sep 16, 2014)

Drakor said:


> He's hardly a Gary Stu considering his failures in the past and his struggle in this current story of obtaining Aladdin and connections to Balbad/Kou along with extermination of Al Thamen, not to mention the very fact he's halfway in depravity.



I put the words in italics for a reason. I know he doesn't fit the meaning of the term. What I was getting at is that the character could easily be the sort of individuals whom the heroes look up, the sort of person who is great at everything and so on; the typical Gary Stu. 

But instead, we get an insidious character who at first glance looks like a Gary Stu.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 18, 2014)

The mysteries of Magi revealed!


----------



## crystalblade13 (Sep 19, 2014)

Westley, what's you're beef with Aladdin all about? He is the main character, that is a fact. As ohtaka specifically stated that she was originally gonna make the main character a girl ( in reference to Aladdin ). Not to mention getting the magnostadt arc entirely to himself. He is also not a stu. He has lost multiple fights, been saved numerous times, and has failed to convince people of his ways as well. And al thaman boogie men!? Sure, just ignore that their the entire cause for all corruption in the magiverse, and that they brung il ilah down once already. It's obvious that you just dislike them because their related to Aladdin, and because your in love with kou. An intense hatred for one character really shouldn't effect your opinion on entire section of the story. That makes you seem awfully Whiney.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 19, 2014)

Titus was the main character of the Magnostadt arc.

Aladdin is a stu because his actions seem to be above criticism.  He waded neck deep into the middle of a war, and no one has a problem with this?  No one questions him, least of all himself.  There is no CONFLICT with his character.  He just watches things and supports others on a whim.  He seems to know everything or he doesn't care that he doesn't, he just does what he wants and gets away with it.

When in the manga has Aladdin actually made a mistake?  Even in the last chapter, he made a big one, but he blames everyone at the summit instead of himself.

He is not the main character.  I refuse to consider this to be his story since he's not personally invested in the outcome.


----------



## Powerful Lord (Sep 19, 2014)

Wesley said:


> The mysteries of Magi revealed!



 I love the Nobita-Doraemon reference in there.


----------



## Rukia (Sep 19, 2014)

I think there have been opportunities to make Alibaba the main character.  :[


----------



## crystalblade13 (Sep 19, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Titus was the main character of the Magnostadt arc.
> 
> Aladdin is a stu because his actions seem to be above criticism.  He waded neck deep into the middle of a war, and no one has a problem with this?  No one questions him, least of all himself.  There is no CONFLICT with his character.  He just watches things and supports others on a whim.  He seems to know everything or he doesn't care that he doesn't, he just does what he wants and gets away with it.
> 
> ...



By that logic, Cassim was the main character of the balbadd arc. Titus wasn't even in a single arc prior to magnostadt, he was simply the secondary main. Aladdins growth as a magician and the breakout of war was the arcs main focus. Titus's story being an important subplot.

He has made numerous mistakes. He admitted himself that he was wrong about mogamett and that he shouldn't have said what he did about him. His pleas towards leam returning to their own damn country during the war weren't obeyed as mu said "fuck that" and went ham. The only reason the others considered listening is that their will to fight was crushed by the return of mogametts barriers. And in this most recent chapter his pleas were once again refuted and ignored. Complete stu, let me tell you. Plus, you pretty much conceded to him not being a stu in combat.

He is the main character. The authors statement > your opinion. I really have no clue on how he "isn't invested". Aladdin has 3 main goals. Preventing a second alma torran incident, making alibaba king, and finding the djinn metal vessels. He has personally fought al thaman throughout the series, he has tried to promote peace so that they won't be able to create black spots, and he generally just wants a world where everyone can move forward happily.


----------



## Kellogem (Sep 19, 2014)

crystalblade13 said:


> He has made numerous mistakes. He admitted himself that he was wrong about mogamett and that he shouldn't have said what he did about him. His pleas towards lean returning to their own damn country during the war weren't obeyed as mu said "fuck that" and went ham. The only reason the others considered listening is that their will to fight was crushed by the return of mogametts barriers. And in this most recent chapter his pleas were once again refuted and ignored. Completely su, let me tell you. Plus, you pretty much conceded to him not being a su in combat.



I dont think just the fact people didnt always obey him or things didnt go his way should be considered mistakes. he did the best he could at the moment.

Im not saying he is a sue or whatever but I have to admit it feels like Aladdin is always right and following the right path.. even when he is supposed to be struggling it doesnt have weight like when he didnt know what to do with Magnostadt, cause at times like those there is no right answer.. but in the end whatever he chooses is right, he doesnt make human mistakes or have to stain his hands... he is like the definition of "right". he feels more like a plot device than a character, whatever he is the main character or not I dont care much about him either..


----------



## crystalblade13 (Sep 19, 2014)

We'll he never thought of returning the black rukh to the great flow, which is the optimal thing to do, before mogamett gave him the idea.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 19, 2014)

crystalblade13 said:


> By that logic, Cassim was the main character of the balbadd arc. Titus wasn't even in a single arc prior to magnostadt, he was simply the secondary main. Aladdins growth as a magician and the breakout of war was the arcs main focus. Titus's story being an important subplot.



No, Aladdin's power ups do not a story arc make.  Titus coming to terms with his mission, what he is, and his impending death, as well as how it reflected on Magnostadt and it's statist policies was the cornerstone of the arc.  Aladdin did JACK SHIT in the Magnostadt arc.



> He has made numerous mistakes. He admitted himself that he was wrong about mogamett and that he shouldn't have said what he did about him. His pleas towards leam returning to their own damn country during the war weren't obeyed as mu said "fuck that" and went ham. The only reason the others considered listening is that their will to fight was crushed by the return of mogametts barriers. And in this most recent chapter his pleas were once again refuted and ignored. Complete stu, let me tell you. Plus, you pretty much conceded to him not being a stu in combat.



They weren't refuted.  Nothing Aladdin ever says is refuted.  People are staggeringly silent whenever he opens his mouth and acts like a hypocrite.



> He is the main character. The authors statement > your opinion. I really have no clue on how he "isn't invested". Aladdin has 3 main goals. Preventing a second alma torran incident, making alibaba king, and finding the djinn metal vessels. He has personally fought al thaman throughout the series, he has tried to promote peace so that they won't be able to create black spots, and he generally just wants a world where everyone can move forward happily.



"I want to save the world!" isn't a personal goal.  Certainly not the way Aladdin goes about it.


----------



## ensoriki (Sep 19, 2014)

I dont have interest in Aladdin.
This manga to me is Alibaba and Mor's adventures, srs.
Which is kind of problematic as Alibaba's character seems to well be stuck in a rut. In-verse it wasn't long since he had some kind of "development" but in real-time with this alma toran story, you come back and you kinda wish the story had moved him forward.

Mor's always in the background for the past what 100 chapters lol?

Aladdin feels infallible, partially because he is a "child" and looks the part.
Alibaba by comparison is a prince but born on the streets, ran away from the thrown, worked with basically the resistance against the thrown, inadvertently contributed to the path that led his friend to death, surrendered his country to the Kou, struggles to find a voice among country leaders, trying to make due when he's not the most powerful of his contemporaries, still struggling with young adult love. 

He's just a lot more..."stuff" to invest in.

Aladdin has all this history but he doesn't even care about it to that much. He wasn't really "there" when everything was happening around him, he's basically been given a mission and follows it.

Alibaba doesn't even want to be King, how is Aladdin gonna make a man who doesnt want to be King, King? It's been implied that if Alibaba takes over he's going to set up a democracy and bounce. Hell is Aladdin even trying to make Alibaba king anymore given the way current events are?

Also the truth of the Finalis is interesting...which kinda makes all 3 of our "main" Finalis interesting.

If this manga is at the half-way point now, then Aladdin may not get the kind of tribulations he "needs"  until the very last portion of the story to make him a more attractive character. Imo there's a reason a character like Peter Parker was created, and why he maintains contemporary relevance so many years after his creation. People like to see imperfection in others.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Sep 20, 2014)

Wesley said:


> No, Aladdin's power ups do not a story arc make.  Titus coming to terms with his mission, what he is, and his impending death, as well as how it reflected on Magnostadt and it's statist policies was the cornerstone of the arc.  Aladdin did JACK SHIT in the Magnostadt arc.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He learned about magnostadts connection to al thamen, he exposed the 5th level authorization  district, he helped to convince mogamett to see the goi as equal (titus was heavily involved in this as well), and finally he learned a lot about magic and became much more powerful. which IS imortant as he is the main character of a SHONEN manga where battling can be essential  from time to time.

They were refuted. Mu tried to stab him in the face cause he believed in shaherazade's views over aladdins. The  Kou were basically calling him a fool this most recent chapter for thinking they'd listen to him over their leaders, who obviously have a different opinion on how the world should progress.

concession accepted on making alibaba a king and finding the djinn metal vessals. And im sure you think "imma save balbadd!" is a perfectly good goal. No respect to alibaba, heps cool, but why isnt it a problem when he has a similar goal, just on a smaller scale?


----------



## Kellogem (Sep 20, 2014)

I hope Hakuryuu is going to return soon, to be honest Im interested in his development the most..

Morg would need some good development as well, right now she is all about supporting her friends.. kind of generic female lead role.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 20, 2014)

crystalblade13 said:


> He learned about magnostadts connection to al thamen, he exposed the 5th level authorization  district, he helped to convince mogamett to see the goi as equal (titus was heavily involved in this as well), and finally he learned a lot about magic and became much more powerful. which IS imortant as he is the main character of a SHONEN manga where battling can be essential  from time to time.



Titus did most of that, and Al Thamen in Magnostadt was a major dud of a reveal.  Info dump on the eve of war, almost completely forgettable.



> They were refuted. Mu tried to stab him in the face cause he believed in shaherazade's views over aladdins. The  Kou were basically calling him a fool this most recent chapter for thinking they'd listen to him over their leaders, who obviously have a different opinion on how the world should progress.



No, Mu tried to stab him in the face because Aladdin was defending an enemy of his country.  Not because of a disagreement.  You'll notice that not one character has had a problem with Aladdin's involvement in the war since then.  What he did was totally inexcusable and hypocritical.  Same goes for the recent chapters where no one actually talks to him at all and the reader is left to think that everyone is just being a butt head for looking after their self-interests.



> concession accepted on making alibaba a king and finding the djinn metal vessals. And im sure you think "imma save balbadd!" is a perfectly good goal. No respect to alibaba, heps cool, but why isnt it a problem when he has a similar goal, just on a smaller scale?



Djinn vessel thing was like a 10 chapters into the manga, dude.  It was a big fat nothing.  And as for making Alibaba king, Aladdin hasn't even talked to Alibaba anything related to that in over 100 chapters.  Every time Aladdin has talked to Alibaba, suddenly the guy is too stupid to understand the words coming out of Aladdin's mouth.  That's an example of making a smart character dumb to make another character seem smart by comparison.

Stus do that all of the time.  When it comes time to show just how smart they are, everyone else loses about 20-50 IQ points.


----------



## Black Knight (Sep 22, 2014)

Well... shit is getting real.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 22, 2014)

And once again I'm reminded why Magi is my favorite Shonen manga.  Kind Balbaad telling Sinbad that even though he's a badass, getting hurt or killed won't help him to be a merchant is common sense that you never see in Shonen.  Every other manga out there has protagonists that will get into fights at the drop of a hat, like they're freakin' immortal.

I hope we get to see the play.

Riri continues to prove to be the best teacher/surrogate mother ever.  Gentle, understanding, and a slap that can flatten a tree.  Even a foul mouthed little bastard like Jafar is no match for her.


----------



## Rai (Sep 22, 2014)

Magi 240 RAW:


----------



## Santí (Sep 22, 2014)

Wesley said:


> I hope we get to see the play.



Do you know that 33 was released out of order, and both 34 & 35 was released a week ago?

And I've been scratching my head over how Riri had suddenly given this announced birth within a less than 3 months tops this entire bloody time.


----------



## Ftg07 (Sep 22, 2014)

Woah....what happened


----------



## Fourangers (Sep 23, 2014)

*Spoiler*: _big spoilers_ 



Hakuryuu killed his mother, the empress. Off-panel. 

Whoa am I surprised. The one we thought that was going to be the big bad boss died.

Hm, I still want the 100% confirmation, but the soldiers said they saw with their own eyes Hakuryuu killing his mother.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Sep 23, 2014)

Fourangers said:


> *Spoiler*: _big spoilers_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wait, what?!


*Spoiler*: __ 



How did it come about that Gyokuen/Arba was killed off-panel by Hakuryuu?  

There has to be more to what is going on here than that.  It is hard to believe that Gyokuen would be struck down - off-panel nonetheless - just like that.


----------



## Santí (Sep 23, 2014)

I want a fucking source and now.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 24, 2014)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Seriously?  We just spent the last 5 months on a flashback and all we learned is who Aladdin's parents are and who Gyokuen is.  And we don't even see a confrontation with her?  Really if we were going to have a civil war in Kou, Hakuryuu would basically have been my last choice leading one side of it.

I hope Sinbad lends his support to Hakuryuu.


----------



## Fourangers (Sep 24, 2014)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Trust me when I say that I am as surprised as you are. It's off-panel above all...this is all so weird.

This was the page when the soldiers declared she was murdered by Hakuryuu:



Well, some previous pages Judar was already saying "that old hag is long gone".

I correct: The soldiers who arrived didn't see with their own eyes but every report they received all confirmed the same news.

Unless the Chinese scans if fucking with me. But it's written there.


----------



## Imagine (Sep 24, 2014)

Holy shit


----------



## Brian (Sep 24, 2014)

I have a hard time believing she's actually dead unless we get a flashback to the rebellion.


----------



## convict (Sep 24, 2014)

Wow I have never been this excited for Magi in a long time. If Sinbad allies with Hakuryuu as implicated earlier on in the Sindria arc (also Hakuryuu did him a solid with the Arba thing) Kouen is done for. However, there is Judal to consider. Not sure Sinbad will be open to allying with him.


----------



## Palm Siberia (Sep 25, 2014)

*Spoiler*: __ 



I'm done with this if she's dead what was the point of hype if she was killed off panel.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 25, 2014)

You know, Hakuryuu has basically stated his plans for the Kou Empire since day one, but the only thing I actually believed he was interested in was killing Gyokuen.  This must be why he supported her taking the throne.  So he could kill her and take it  for himself.

All in all, a great chapter.  Looking forward to where things go from here.


----------



## Drakor (Sep 25, 2014)

Aside from what Wesley said, I'm shocked Judar succeeded in creating/obtaining that eye-organ Alma Torran magicians use to have. He's wielding magical power similar to what they used back then and in this world it would completely break the scale of power. The good thing is that it appears he isn't drawing his power directly from Ill Illah like the magicians of old, but using gathered black rukh for it.

Seems things are just constantly being set in motion for Sinbad and his ambitions. Now we'll see if he'll follow through with his promise after having just set the worlds eyes on Kou as their enemy harboring Al Thamen, cause best believe...he will take advantage of this turn of events.


----------



## Roman (Sep 25, 2014)

Palm Siberia said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> I'm done with this if she's dead what was the point of hype if she was killed off panel.



I'm almost tempted to agree with you. I lost count of how many chapters of flashbacks we've had. All this time getting a backstory of her, why she's relevant to Solomon and Aladdin, only to get off-paneled. But that's exactly why I'm tempted to think she's not actually dead and this is all just a ruse by Judal to get everyone at the summit to fight each other.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Sep 25, 2014)

no way that she is dead........ O_o


----------



## Gunners (Sep 25, 2014)

I doubt that she is dead. People need to remember that she is a smart individual; she'd have enough sense to realise that she presented a common threat for the world to work against. Now that she is gone, discord will reign.


----------



## Sherlōck (Sep 25, 2014)

I don't believe for a second that she is dead.


----------



## alekos23 (Sep 25, 2014)

maybe she got Medusa'd


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Sep 25, 2014)

She isn't dead, unless dying was a part of her plans.
After manipulating Hakuryuu his whole life, I doubt it would be resolved off panel.


----------



## Rax (Sep 25, 2014)

Ima be the odd man  out and believe she's dead :ignoramus


----------



## Shinryu (Sep 25, 2014)

inb4 Arba/Gyokuen becomes one with Illah in her rukh form and unleashs all hell


----------



## Rica_Patin (Sep 25, 2014)

She obviously isn't dead, this is one of the oldest tropes in the book.


----------



## The_Evil (Sep 25, 2014)

If she's dead I'll eat my Internet hat.


----------



## Butcher (Sep 25, 2014)

No way is she dead


----------



## ~VK~ (Sep 25, 2014)

Palm Siberia said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> I'm done with this if she's dead what was the point of hype if she was killed off panel.



Lol.

Calm your tits brother. There's no way she died an off-panel'd death. 

The fact that your even consider that is ridiculous. That's like saying blackbeard got killed by shank's in some off-panel fight.


----------



## Rica_Patin (Sep 25, 2014)

To be honest, it's mildly insulting to me as a reader that Ohtaka would even try and pull a stunt like this.
Any person who isn't deficient or has read any work of fiction before knows that Gyokuen isn't actually dead. 
It's just bad writing.
This series truly has fallen to a state beyond repair since the end of the Hogwarts arc/beginning of the war arc.


----------



## Sphyer (Sep 25, 2014)

Nice to see Judar got rid of that crappy looking wand.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Sep 25, 2014)

Rica_Patin said:


> To be honest, it's mildly insulting to me as a reader that Ohtaka would even try and pull a stunt like this.
> Any person who isn't deficient or has read any work of fiction before knows that Gyokuen isn't actually dead.
> *It's just bad writing.*
> This series truly has fallen to a state beyond repair since the end of the Hogwarts arc/beginning of the war arc.



I can't call it bad writing until I see where she is going with it.


----------



## LordPerucho (Sep 25, 2014)

The final Arc will look a lot like Nardo.

Hakuryuu is shaping up to the final villain if Arba is really dead, the Sasuke of Magi


----------



## Stilzkin (Sep 25, 2014)

It'd be great if she was dead. There is actually no reason for her to be the main villain in the series. She has a connection to Solomon and how their world was created but that isn't really what the story is about. The story is a power struggle between the king candidates and Hakuryuu and Alibaba as the underdogs are the ones who this is going to boil down to.

Definitely not bad writing to keep her alive. At the very least this resolves the problem of why no one will be trying to dissolve the group with intent of destroying the world.


----------



## Kellogem (Sep 25, 2014)

Sphyer said:


> Nice to see Judar got rid of that crappy looking wand.



was about to say this... finally he got some real weapon instead of the sailor moon - harry potterish girly stick. 

also I dont think the author is even trying to pull a stunt on us... if she would, she would have handled it like its a bigger thing instead of dealing with it in a couple of pages. Im 95% sure its all according to Gyokuens plans. now it looks like Al Thamen is sort of out of picture everyone at each others throat with Hakuryuus side added.

also that black lightning Gate of Babylon thing Judar had was awesome.


----------



## ensoriki (Sep 25, 2014)

I think she should be killed off and then the fight shown in a flashback.
Its interesting in a way that Arba is "dealt with" off-panel because it does seem so impossible.
Members of Al-thamen were constantly leaving dolls behind so if Arba really did croak for good it's actually really intriguing that Ohtaka took that decision. We spent an entire arc leading up to "she betrayed us" and then she's just dead? It's so against convention that she should do it.


----------



## Palm Siberia (Sep 25, 2014)

Sure say she might not be dead, but I bet it might seem so impossible it could actually be the case she is now just dead would not surprise me.

I remember the old Tobi = Obito debates even before the Madara twist people thought it was too easy and yet...


----------



## Kellogem (Sep 26, 2014)

Palm Siberia said:


> I remember the old Tobi = Obito debates even before the Madara twist people thought it was too easy and yet...



that was Kishi, the kaiser of bad writing..

...one would expect better than that from Ohtaka


----------



## Rokudaime (Sep 26, 2014)

Kell?gem said:


> that was Kishi, the kaiser of bad writing..
> 
> ...one would expect *better than that from Ohtaka*



**Look at those long-ass boring flashback**

Errrr...no.


----------



## Kellogem (Sep 26, 2014)

Rokudaime said:


> **Look at those long-ass boring flashback**
> 
> Errrr...no.



I think it was better than anything and everything Kishi gave us in the last 5 years or so.. Obito wasted just as much chapters just whining about Rin if you would put it together. I dont see the Madara - Hashimara flashback any more interesting either.

but actually I liked this flashback, it had a lot of revelations, fights and development.. maybe some of it wasnt the best and there was some unnecessary stuff here and there but I dont see how someone can even compare it to the abomination that Naruto is.


----------



## Palm Siberia (Sep 26, 2014)

Thing is Obito and Madara remained in the story so if she really is dead it kind of hurts the flashback...


----------



## Kellogem (Sep 26, 2014)

I pretty sure she is alive / going to have a part to play..

also in magis case the flashback was about a lot of other thing and characters as well - Sheba, Solomon, Ugo, David, Al Thamen, Ill Ilah, the whole origin of Alma Toran, rukh, the dungeons, Aladdin and other shit, while Obitos and Madaras flashback was just about them and Hashimara (maybe nidaime had a small role as well)

even if Gyokuen would be dead, its not like the whole flashback would be wasted, only about 10% of it.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 26, 2014)

There was nothing wrong with the flash back, other than it's complete irrelevance to the characters in the present day.  It'll probably take 3 years before Arba and David are ever relevant again.  Sheba who was the real star of the arc is no where, and frankly I just don't think I'd give a shit if she ever had a proper meeting with Aladdin, because he's such a horrible character and I seriously think he deserves the worst.

P.S. It's occurred to me that Aladdin is a total hypocrite.  Again.  He chose to attack Reim instead of dealing with the Dark Spot.  Then he told Scherazade that a Magi should be concerned with the world and not one country.  And here is again, telling the three most powerful countries on the planet that they should just drop what they're doing and focus on Al Thamen, right after wasting everyone's time with a story about his parents!


----------



## Palm Siberia (Sep 26, 2014)

What Al Thamen if the leader really is dead that leaves Judar, and possibly Markkio with Falan left in that organization.


----------



## Kellogem (Sep 26, 2014)

maybe Hakuryuu is going to be the new leader of Al Thamen 

they should manipulate the shit out of him..


----------



## Santí (Sep 26, 2014)

Plot twist: Hakuryuu manipulates Al Thamen.


----------



## Kellogem (Sep 26, 2014)

and Sinbad manipulates Hakuryuu...


----------



## Rica_Patin (Sep 26, 2014)

Kell?gem said:


> and Sinbad manipulates Hakuryuu...



And Yunan manipulates Sinbad.


----------



## Palm Siberia (Sep 26, 2014)

What is this Naruto?

[youtube]_-8j8c7iL3E[/youtube]


----------



## Rica_Patin (Sep 26, 2014)

Palm Siberia said:


> What is this Naruto?
> 
> [youtube]_-8j8c7iL3E[/youtube]



It's currently just as bad.
At least Naruto is ending.


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Sep 26, 2014)

Rica_Patin said:


> It's currently just as bad.
> At least Naruto is ending.




If you seriously think this is anywhere near the level of Naruto, your an imbecile.
Magi might have its flaws, but it at least makes sense.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 26, 2014)

The question is will Alibaba finally do something?  Can he do anything?  The worst part is there is doubt that he ever will.  His character has been in limbo for 2 years.  It's been that long since his duel with Garda, when he chose to return to his kingdom.  Even though he's become En's right hand man and supposedly has achieved his goal, there is no sense at all that he's going to make any difference whatsoever.

Not because he's incapable, but because it just isn't his show.  It's all about Aladdin.


----------



## Kellogem (Sep 26, 2014)

I dont see there how Alibaba could develop..

I dont think the mangaka want him to stain his hands, like sacrificing anyone for Balbadd or for his friend or whatever, but there is a limit how far a character can get with the usual determination/willpower/self-sacrifice/big revelations about things (like his limits, life, ruling or whatever) shounen shit. Im not sure Alibaba has the potential, he is going to end up like your usual shounen hero protecting everyone after struggling with himself.

I think he should fuck up, make some big mistake so he can learn from it..at least that way his character would have the chance to develop and not stand still (or have some cheesy excuse of a development like what Naruto tend to got getting him nowhere on a long run).


----------



## Goud (Sep 26, 2014)

Palm Siberia said:


> What Al Thamen if the leader really is dead that leaves Judar, and possibly Markkio with Falan left in that organization.



Not really. It was mentioned that Al Thamen is an organisation of ''powerful wizards who conceal their identity''. There are probably going to be a number of other prominent members revealed, or did you forget about that meeting room with all those members in it?


----------



## Palm Siberia (Sep 26, 2014)

True but they have not entered the picture yet besides I'm sure the gang will be looking for them after the current events are done with.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 26, 2014)

Kell?gem said:


> I dont see there how Alibaba could develop..
> 
> I dont think the mangaka want him to stain his hands, like sacrificing anyone for Balbadd or for his friend or whatever, but there is a limit how far a character can get with the usual determination/willpower/self-sacrifice/big revelations about things (like his limits, life, ruling or whatever) shounen shit. Im not sure Alibaba has the potential, he is going to end up like your usual shounen hero protecting everyone after struggling with himself.
> 
> I think he should fuck up, make some big mistake so he can learn from it..at least that way his character would have the chance to develop and not stand still (or have some cheesy excuse of a development like what Naruto tend to got getting him nowhere on a long run).



He's already done that.  

Alibaba has got the skills to pay the bills.  He can accomplish things.  He just needs an opportunity to actually do something!


----------



## Rokudaime (Sep 27, 2014)

Kell?gem said:


> I think it was better than anything and everything Kishi gave us in the last 5 years or so.. Obito wasted just as much chapters just whining about Rin if you would put it together. I dont see the Madara - Hashimara flashback any more interesting either.
> 
> but actually I liked this flashback, it had a lot of revelations, fights and development.. maybe some of it wasnt the best and there was some unnecessary stuff here and there but I dont see how someone can even compare it to the abomination that Naruto is.



You gave the Magi's writer way too much credits.

Just as someone said in this thread...both of them were pretty much on same level.


----------



## Kellogem (Sep 27, 2014)

Wesley said:


> He's already done that.
> 
> Alibaba has got the skills to pay the bills.  He can accomplish things.  He just needs an opportunity to actually do something!



but what exactly do you mean by doing something?

for example kicking some ass wouldnt lead to character development.

what course of action should he take to serve it as good development and in what way? leading an army? smacking Aladdin?



> You gave the Magi's writer way too much credits.
> 
> Just as someone said in this thread...both of them were pretty much on same level. You gave the Magi's writer way too much credits.
> 
> Just as someone said in this thread...both of them were pretty much on same level.



meh, all I know is I was looking forward to magi even during the flashback while there is nothing and no one in Naruto I give a darn about even during the main fights. the worst chapter of magi was better than the fucking kaguya fight which was supposed to be the highlight of the war, so thats pretty sad. anyway just my opinion.


----------



## Powerful Lord (Sep 27, 2014)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> If you seriously think this is anywhere near the level of Naruto, your an imbecile.
> Magi might have its flaws, but it at least makes sense.



It does? It's been a mess since a bit after the start of the war. Like Naruto, it's gotten worse once they started bringing back characters from the pasts of their respective worlds, instead of letting the story focus on the conflict between present characters and kingdoms.

It's also what killed Korra Book 2, sometimes the past is more interesting when it remains in the past, giving it a more mythological vibe, instead of dragging it into the present, where it doesn't fit.


----------



## Kellogem (Sep 27, 2014)

man, and I thought I was negative..

here more people seems to hate on Magi than actually liking it.


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Sep 27, 2014)

Powerful Lord said:


> It does? It's been a mess since a bit after the start of the war. Like Naruto, it's gotten worse once they started bringing back characters from the pasts of their respective worlds, instead of letting the story focus on the conflict between present characters and kingdoms.
> 
> It's also what killed Korra Book 2, sometimes the past is more interesting when it remains in the past, giving it a more mythological vibe, instead of dragging it into the present, where it doesn't fit.




Yes, it does.

The story has remained consistent. 
There aren't any huge contradictions or retcons.
The major flaws of the series are the rushed developments and the art.

The problem with the flashback was the pacing.
People complained about the long length, when in truth it was too short.
Ohtaka should have kept it either short with a few speeches describing the past or gone all in.
Unfortunately she chose the middle road, so we ended up with a rushed arc.

The characters and developments weren't given the appropriate amount of time for us readers to properly invest ourselves, so the majority wanted it to finish quickly which only made the arc worse.

The second problem were the expectations of Al Thamen, thinking most mysteries would be revealed.
That was stupid, since it obviously wasn't going to happen. This was about Solomon.
Al Thamen was always going to be some background info and some pieces of fluff. 
The meat people were salivating for, would obviously be saved for the confrontation in the current timeline.

Naruto is just a garbled mess of nonsense, while Magi makes sense.
It just takes a huge amount of effort to pay attention, because the author failed to present it properly.
The story will focus on the present, but it needed to get the past out of the way first.
Focusing on the present would have made things incomprehensible, when the major antagonists are essentially living relics of the past.
Sure this could have been done better, but compered to Naruto where armies on the battlefield wait and chat about the past, it makes it seem like genius writing.




The problems with Korra season two are similar, but not quite.
The problem was the terrible characterization, which was made to suit the plot and not the opposite.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 27, 2014)

Magi's art work is fantastic.  The little doodles Otakha uses are very expressive, despite their simplicity.  I'd rather read a napkin with one of her doodles than an entire Volume of Bleach.



Kell?gem said:


> but what exactly do you mean by doing something?
> 
> for example kicking some ass wouldnt lead to character development.
> 
> what course of action should he take to serve it as good development and in what way? leading an army? smacking Aladdin?



Alibaba is an adult now.  He doesn't need character development.  He needs challenges and obstacles in all manner of form, just to see what he does.  I want to cheer Alibaba on no matter what he faces, but he's not facing anything!  He's been made the right hand of one of the most powerful men in the world, and he's not doing anything with it.

Not even picking up chicks.


----------



## ensoriki (Sep 27, 2014)

Powerful Lord said:


> It does? It's been a mess since a bit after the start of the war. Like Naruto, it's gotten worse once they started bringing back characters from the pasts of their respective worlds, instead of letting the story focus on the conflict between present characters and kingdoms.
> 
> It's also what killed Korra Book 2, sometimes the past is more interesting when it remains in the past, giving it a more mythological vibe, instead of dragging it into the present, where it doesn't fit.



What are you talking about.
We already knew Gyokuen was from Alma Toran.
We already knew Al Thamen was an issue.
We've known things like this for more than a hundred chapters (aka: Years).

Then after we just had this huge blast to the past (which I did not enjoy) Judar comes in and says That witch you're all fixated on is dead. 

As far as the present goes Judar just straight up said how he wants things to go. "I want all of you to fight it out". Which goes back to the beginning of this manga when we were told the magi pick Kings. Judar wants to do it through violence. If anything everything has come full circle and the quality has *increased* after the alma toran arc instead of sinking.



Kell?gem said:


> I dont see there how Alibaba could develop..
> 
> I dont think the mangaka want him to stain his hands, like sacrificing anyone for Balbadd or for his friend or whatever, but there is a limit how far a character can get with the usual determination/willpower/self-sacrifice/big revelations about things (like his limits, life, ruling or whatever) shounen shit. Im not sure Alibaba has the potential, he is going to end up like your usual shounen hero protecting everyone after struggling with himself.
> 
> I think he should fuck up, make some big mistake so he can learn from it..at least that way his character would have the chance to develop and not stand still (or have some cheesy excuse of a development like what Naruto tend to got getting him nowhere on a long run).



Alibaba already made a big mistake. Arguably he made two of the,.
He abandoned his kingdom instead of taking control...TWICE.
His abscence from Cassim and his willingness to go along with what Cassim wanted even when he did not agree with the methods, ultimately let to Cassim getting abused and killed.

The whole thing is supposed to be him moving past that. Alibaba should be and really should have taken from this entire Arc his own resolve to be King. He's seen the past system, he's lived in Balbaads, he's seen Kou's system and Sinbads, and even Reims. Alibaba has legitimately seen a significant part of the world, he's tossled with Al Thamen and he knows a history very few know.

Yet even now he isn't confident in himself.
Frankly I don't blame him, but I'm rooting for him more then anyone. Alladdin legit bores the shit out of me. 
Im really wondering what this woman is going to do with Alibaba's character. She's pushed in to the side in many ways, and then brings him again just to show how unprepared he is for the world around him. His contemporaries are all making moves, you could argue Hakuryuu was in an even worse position then Alibaba was politically and yet here he is leading a rebellion. Where is Alibaba's motivations?


----------



## Stilzkin (Sep 27, 2014)

Powerful Lord said:


> It does? It's been a mess since a bit after the start of the war. Like Naruto, it's gotten worse once they started bringing back characters from the pasts of their respective worlds, instead of letting the story focus on the conflict between present characters and kingdoms.



The problem with Naruto's history is that it felt completely out of place and comes in at the end of the story.

In Magi the past is far better integrated and actually serves to answer real questions. Story for the bijuu was not needed, nor was there a new to add mythological reasons for the conflicts between groups. In Magi it was always made quite clear that the dungeons/magi/djinn had explanations and that it would be explained.

With the past shown we can now move on into the future and the characters can use that knowledge. The flashback was about a failed kingdom and the purpose of the king candidates. This is important information when we are now going to see what each candidate decides to do.


Seriously 20 chapters of back story cannot be compared to an over a hundred chapter finale where the main motivation of the story (Naruto becoming a worthy Hokage)  is pushed to the side.


----------



## Kellogem (Sep 27, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Alibaba is an adult now.  He doesn't need character development.  He needs challenges and obstacles in all manner of form, just to see what he does.



I'd disagree with that... he still doesnt have a clear goal or method in his mind what he wants to do and how, what it means to be a king (does he even want to be a king, I dont even remember)...etc. There is still plenty of character development ahead of him, he is going to become an adult when he is going to have a clear objective.. but them his journey would become boring, at least I dont care for someone sure of himself and realizing his objectives, there are enough characters like this around, him finding his way is what this manga should be about imo...



ensoriki said:


> Alibaba already made a big mistake. Arguably he made two of the,.
> He abandoned his kingdom instead of taking control...TWICE.
> His abscence from Cassim and his willingness to go along with what Cassim wanted even when he did not agree with the methods, ultimately let to Cassim getting abused and killed.
> 
> ...



well, I think the idea of being a king is not something one can digest easily... he would need to be prepared to crush many if he wants to be a good king for Balbadd, but that wouldnt make him a good ruler in general, just like how Aladdin said Mogamet would be only a good king for magicians.

but finding an alternative is hard (and realistically speaking it shouldnt be close to impossible, but since this is a shounen Im afraid its going to end with a light tone), first they would somehow unite the whole world and find a good king (most likely Alibaba) after, I think the point is he cant become the king of Balbadd only.. 

Im not sure how realistic the mangaka wants to make this manga, Im afraid its going to end with world peace and everyone living under the guidance of the wise king, Alibaba.

Id prefer him to stain his hands first, like ready to sacrifice some for a greater good, but Aladdin wouldnt approve of him then..


----------



## Harbour (Sep 27, 2014)

Spoilers:




I got the vibe that Gokuen switched the bodies with Hakuei. What a twist.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 27, 2014)

That feels like a lie.


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Sep 27, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Magi's art work is fantastic.  The little doodles Otakha uses are very expressive, despite their simplicity.  I'd rather read a napkin with one of her doodles than an entire Volume of Bleach.
> .



The designs are great.
But tell me with a straight face the art in her fighting scenes, doesn't make you go "wtf just happened", when you read them.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 27, 2014)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> The designs are great.
> But tell me with a straight face the art in her fighting scenes, doesn't make you go "wtf just happened", when you read them.



I'd say only the Medium fight was confusing with all the different characters and special abilities involved.


----------



## Palm Siberia (Sep 27, 2014)

Yeah not buying body switch so they don't show the flashback of Ren being killed wut...


----------



## ensoriki (Sep 27, 2014)

Its been implied that Alibaba is aiming for democracy.
Thing is he can't set that up sitting behind everyone. What is frustrating isn't that he doesn't fight everyone or w/e but he is not confident in his convictions so he refrains from voicing them.
His solution isn't perfect either but damn Ohtaka let the boy get on the playing field.


----------



## Magnum Miracles (Sep 28, 2014)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> The designs are great.
> But tell me with a straight face the art in her fighting scenes, doesn't make you go "wtf just happened", when you read them.



Nah, only in the recent fight between Arba & Sheba made me say that.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 28, 2014)

Magnum Miracles said:


> Nah, only in the recent fight between Arba & Sheba made me say that.



That one was very short and somewhat abridged.  The most important part was Arba having her braid shot off, hence why she only has one in the flashback when confronting Solomon.  Presumably she crushed Sheba in short order after absorbing the black djinn.


----------



## Santí (Sep 28, 2014)

Magnum Miracles said:


> Nah, only in the recent fight between Arba & Sheba made me say that.



Yeah, pretty much. Everything else seemed pretty coherent enough for me to understand with careful reading.

But that fight was just full "hold the fuck up... Wat?"


----------



## Rai (Sep 29, 2014)

241 RAW:


----------



## Wesley (Sep 29, 2014)

Well, that was interesting.


----------



## Ftg07 (Sep 29, 2014)

Have we seen those guys in the last page before they look familiar(not including Hakuryuu)


----------



## Palm Siberia (Sep 29, 2014)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Welp seems like Ren/Arba really is dead unless she had a plan in place.


----------



## Rica_Patin (Sep 29, 2014)

Not only are the fights terrible and hard to follow, Ohtaka is also very unoriginal when it comes to panelwork. The series is littered with panels that are near exact replica's of other panels.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 29, 2014)

Rica_Patin said:


> Not only are the fights terrible and hard to follow, Ohtaka is also very unoriginal when it comes to panelwork. The series is littered with panels that are near exact replica's of other panels.



At least she has more than 3 panels per age.


----------



## Rica_Patin (Sep 29, 2014)

Wesley said:


> At least she has more than 3 panels per age.



One artist's flaws don't excuse the flaws of another.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 29, 2014)

I'm not actually sure if panel economy and art-styles can have flaws to be honest.  Generally speaking, I like the amount of content Ohtaka puts into her panels and I enjoy the artwork, as well as the story and liberal amount of dialogue.

Anyway...



Harbour said:


> Spoilers:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Let this be a lesson to everyone; Ohtaka is one smart kitten.  If it seems like something that would happen in Naruto or Bleach, it won't happen here.

And yes, I'm prepared to eat those words, but that's okay.  Arba/Hakuei probably won't be wearing much clothing when it happens, and who cares about clich?s when there are boobs?


----------



## Shukumei (Sep 29, 2014)

I'm glad those 341 spoilers turned out to be fake.


----------



## Rica_Patin (Sep 29, 2014)

Wesley said:


> If it seems like something that would happen in Naruto or Bleach, it won't happen here.



Chapter 175.
Coincidentally the exact point that the series lost all hope of ever being good again.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 29, 2014)

Rica_Patin said:


> Chapter 175.
> Coincidentally the exact point that the series lost all hope of ever being good again.



Indeed, but I wouldn't say because of that chapter.  I'd say because of the lack of fallout from it.  Aladdin should have had his ass busted for involving himself in a war he had no part of and ignoring the growing threat to the planet.

It's the one thing I don't understand about Ohtaka.  She is clearly a good writer.  She knows how to form arguments from two separate, but opposing angles.  And yet, Aladdin does things and no one talks against him.  Alibaba has people lecturing him all the fucking time, but absolutely no one lectures Aladdin.


----------



## Palm Siberia (Sep 30, 2014)

Shukumei said:


> I'm glad those 341 spoilers turned out to be fake.



So Arba really might be dead then if so...


----------



## Rica_Patin (Sep 30, 2014)

Palm Siberia said:


> So Arba really might be dead then if so...



Oh stop it.
She (Gyokuen) obviously isn't dead. Just because she doesn't come back in the very next chapter doesn't mean anything. In fact, if they were to reveal her to still be alive in the chapter directly after it was stated she was "killed" off-panel then that would make this already bad writing even worse.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Sep 30, 2014)

Rica_Patin said:


> Chapter 175.
> Coincidentally the exact point that the series lost all hope of ever being good again.



what the fuck are you on about? the series is still borderline perfect, its higly likely that your opinion is simply shit. I mean every time I see you post on this forums, its either praising garbage or ripping on great series. well... besides naruto. ripping on that is understandable.


----------



## Santí (Sep 30, 2014)

Another day in the life of Nensese.


----------



## Rax (Sep 30, 2014)

She's dead until confirmed otherwise.


----------



## Rica_Patin (Sep 30, 2014)

crystalblade13 said:


> what the fuck are you on about? the series is still borderline perfect, its higly likely that your opinion is simply shit. I mean every time I see you post on this forums, its either praising garbage or ripping on great series. well... besides naruto. ripping on that is understandable.



It's cute that you actually believe that.


----------



## Rokudaime (Sep 30, 2014)

So, that was Hakuryuu Ren's revolution huh?


----------



## Palm Siberia (Sep 30, 2014)

Fair enough and unlike Sasuke's revolution Hakuryuu might have a chance.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 30, 2014)

Okay, I am very optimistic about the upcoming arc.  I might hate Aladdin and I might be disappointed that Alibaba hasn't asserted himself in a very long time, but the setting and the players within it are very strong characters.  They all have goals.  There is a real level of ambiguity amongst them.  Will they fight?  Will someone back down?  What will happen?


----------



## Kellogem (Sep 30, 2014)

Hakuryuu should kick Alibabas ass..

and Judar Aladdins..


----------



## Wesley (Sep 30, 2014)

Kell?gem said:


> Hakuryuu should kick Alibabas ass..
> 
> and Judar Aladdins..



Only if depravity is that much of an edge.


----------



## Magnum Miracles (Sep 30, 2014)

Judar is lame.

Hope Aladdin kicks his ass .


----------



## Wesley (Sep 30, 2014)

Magnum Miracles said:


> Judar is lame.
> 
> Hope Aladdin kicks his ass .



It'll probably be a tag team between Titus and Aladdin if a confrontation like that ever happens.  Titus would give his life to seal the Divine Staff, leaving Judar and Aladdin on an even playing field.


----------



## Butcher (Sep 30, 2014)

Speaking of Judar, it'd be nice to see more of him.

Also some development too. As it stands he is probably one of my least favorite characters in the series.


----------



## Wesley (Sep 30, 2014)

Butcher said:


> Speaking of Judar, it'd be nice to see more of him.
> 
> Also some development too. As it stands he is probably one of my least favorite characters in the series.



He had some humanizing moments with Koygokou in the omakes.  He acted like a nasty little brother to her, but he didn't exactly escape from his antics unscathed either.


----------



## ensoriki (Oct 1, 2014)

Kell?gem said:


> Hakuryuu should kick Alibabas ass..
> 
> and Judar Aladdins..



Are you dumb?
Fire is super effective against grass.
Alibaba gonna wreck Hakuryu have a harem and change the world.


----------



## Kellogem (Oct 1, 2014)

ensoriki said:


> Are you dumb?
> Fire is super effective against grass.
> Alibaba gonna wreck Hakuryu have a harem and change the world.



was about to say Hakuryuu has a bad matchup against Alibaba but went to sleep instead.

besides who is to say Hakuryuu havent conquered another dungeon or 2 meanwhile?  

Water based djinn equipment + organic one = win. and he would rape Alibaba just with the water.


----------



## ensoriki (Oct 1, 2014)

Kell?gem said:


> was about to say Hakuryuu has a bad matchup against Alibaba but went to sleep instead.
> 
> besides who is to say Hakuryuu havent conquered another dungeon or 2 meanwhile?
> 
> Water based djinn equipment + organic one = win. and he would rape Alibaba just with the water.



He burns with such intensity the water evaporates.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Oct 2, 2014)

Chapter is out

 Undeadman


----------



## Santí (Oct 2, 2014)

Fucking lol at Mu and Yunan 

"Guys, I think we are Red Lions"
"Oh yeah, did I forget to mention?"


----------



## Wesley (Oct 2, 2014)

Well, that was boring.


----------



## Palm Siberia (Oct 2, 2014)

So they know the Al Thamen are not dead yet interesting and yeah Arba most likely is not dead after reading this chapter.


----------



## ~Greed~ (Oct 2, 2014)

Assuming that Yunan is the dragon of origin, I wonder if he'll play any major role later in the story. I'm curious if he'll turn out to be an antagonist or if he'll stay good.


----------



## Wesley (Oct 2, 2014)

Did anyone think Aladdin actually succeeded at anything before this chapter?


----------



## Malvingt2 (Oct 2, 2014)

I believe Yunan is working with Sinbad. Yunan is going to betray our heroes. Book it.


----------



## ~Greed~ (Oct 2, 2014)

I thought Yunan implied he didn't really like sinbad all that much because he was too much of an ideal king......or something like that.


----------



## LordPerucho (Oct 3, 2014)

Alibaba vs Hakuryu = Pretty much Naruto vs Sasuke.


----------



## Wesley (Oct 3, 2014)

Hakuryuu has taken what should be rightfully his.  Wouldn't Alibaba siding against Hakuryuu only be because En has something to offer him?


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Oct 4, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Hakuryuu has taken what should be rightfully his.  Wouldn't Alibaba siding against Hakuryuu only be because En has something to offer him?




Yeah.
He or one of his elder brothers would have been the emperor, if it wasn't for Al Thamen.
Kouen is just an usurper, that used Al thamen for his own benefit.


----------



## Black Knight (Oct 4, 2014)

LordPerucho said:


> Alibaba vs Hakuryu = Pretty much Naruto vs Sasuke.



Stop with your nonsense.


----------



## Fourangers (Oct 5, 2014)

LordPerucho said:


> Alibaba vs Hakuryu = Pretty much Naruto vs Sasuke.





I hope not.


----------



## MasterSitsu (Oct 5, 2014)

except Hakuryu is actually right


----------



## Drakor (Oct 7, 2014)

ensoriki said:


> Are you dumb?
> Fire is super effective against grass.
> Alibaba gonna wreck Hakuryu have a harem and change the world.


Hakuryuu learned how to Djin equip on his own in a mere week, and had mastered magoi manipulation long before Alibaba and acquiring Zagan. Amon's ability to cut other metal vessels is apparently canceled out by coating it in magoi, so he should eclipse Alibaba in terms of Djin usage right now given all that time he's had to practice whilst conquering land for Kou.

Edit: 
Anyone else remember that Sinbad has/can collect rukh as well? If so, what are your thoughts on it? Perhaps its an alternate storage of magoi, or maybe its a watered down version of the magoi organ Judar has succeeded in recreating

Pics for those who don't remember: 
*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Rai (Oct 7, 2014)

Magi 242 RAW: Link removed


----------



## Magnum Miracles (Oct 7, 2014)

LordPerucho said:


> Alibaba vs Hakuryu = Pretty much Naruto vs Sasuke.



That made me throw up a little.


----------



## ensoriki (Oct 7, 2014)

No its Charizard vs Venausaur.
My money is on Charizard.


----------



## Rai (Oct 11, 2014)

Magi 243 RAW: Link removed


----------



## Rax (Oct 11, 2014)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Huge ass circle on the planet

Somehow it only is big enough to be just wider than a castle?


----------



## Wesley (Oct 11, 2014)

Dragul is kicking ass.  Though I'd like to see more of the mousey handmaiden.


----------



## Santí (Oct 11, 2014)

Kouen will talk him into a good slap on the wrist and a spanking


----------



## Imagine (Oct 11, 2014)

No complaints here.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Oct 11, 2014)

that was very interesting.


----------



## Gallant (Oct 11, 2014)

Motherfucking Hakuryuu. While Alibaba is busy being a bitch under the weight of the Usurper Ren Kouen's boot, Hakuryuu is going to do his work for him and directly confront Kouen. I don't care whether he wins or loses at the moment, but its better than that disgraceful position Alibaba is lowering himself to.


----------



## LordPerucho (Oct 11, 2014)

Great chapter, I liked the development of Hakuryuu, he clearly isnt a complete Sasuke-clone, kudos to Ohtaka.


----------



## convict (Oct 12, 2014)

Glad Hakuryuu isn't just a blithering senseless idiot like Sasuke as well. I really started getting scared for his character. He actually is doing things for the sake of the general good even if revenge is involved.

Anyway still hope Kouen wipes the floor with his cocky ass.


----------



## Dark Dragon (Oct 12, 2014)

Hakuryuu got two new metal vessels? This means Alibaba is gonna have at least one more metal vessel too by the end of the series. Also, very nice to see a glimpse of Hakuei conquering Paimon's dungeon. Wish we could have seen more


----------



## Palm Siberia (Oct 12, 2014)

How much is left in the series feels like we are reaching endgame unless another big twist happens...


----------



## ~VK~ (Oct 12, 2014)

Palm Siberia said:


> How much is left in the series feels like we are reaching endgame unless another big twist happens...



I hope not. I want to see alibaba conquer at least another dungeon. Unless he decides to stay kouen's bitch forever, he needs to step up like haku and get more djinns.


----------



## Powerful Lord (Oct 12, 2014)

Not sure we're aproaching an end game, only another war.


----------



## ~Avant~ (Oct 12, 2014)

Yeah right now it seems as if we're just focusing on a Kou Civil War. I doubt the Seven Seas Alliance or Reim will get involved.

By the end of the arc Alibaba should reach a high enough level to be able to fight on the same level as the other Kings.


----------



## MrCinos (Oct 12, 2014)

Plus there's also another huge part of the world which hasn't been uncovered by anyone except maybe Yunan. There could be easily 500+ chapters in total with lots of content we haven't seen yet.

I'd love to see a long adventure arc some time in the future.


----------



## Black Knight (Oct 12, 2014)

Vongola King said:


> Comparing Haku to sasuke is just....ugh. He's much better.



So, so, so, so much better. Also, I'm fucking tired of people using that series to compare, like it invented the concept of revenge or something along these lines.


----------



## Shukumei (Oct 12, 2014)

Kurapika is Sasuke's character done correctly


----------



## Stilzkin (Oct 12, 2014)

Black Knight said:


> So, so, so, so much better. Also, I'm fucking tired of people using that series to compare, like it invented the concept of revenge or something along these lines.



What are you talking about? Naruto invented storytelling.



> Kurapika is Sasuke's character done correctly



Sasuke is Kurapica done badly. Literally, as Kishi based Sasuke's story on his. 



> There could be easily 500+ chapters in total with lots of content we haven't seen yet.



I doubt there will be.

The story isn't close to the end though. It is still just starting. With the flashback the details of the conflicts in this story have been explained. Even if we are past one third of the story from here on out things should be slightly more focused.


----------



## Stevenh1990 (Oct 12, 2014)

To let everybody know Hahuryuu only have two metal vessel not tree. It was a trans mistake that was fix by the way. New chap is up on MS


----------



## ~VK~ (Oct 12, 2014)

Stevenh1990 said:


> To let everybody know Hahuryuu only have two metal vessel not tree. It was a trans mistake that was fix by the way. New chap is up on MS



You can see three shining circles though.


----------



## Rax (Oct 12, 2014)

HAKURYUU, USE RAZOR LEAF!


----------



## Wesley (Oct 12, 2014)

Hakuryuu is a grass/poison/dragon type.  I don't know how that works out in Pok?mon terms.


----------



## Ice Cream (Oct 13, 2014)

Vongola King said:


> You can see three shining circles though.




Two circles seem to come from the same spear.


----------



## Palm Siberia (Oct 13, 2014)

Not true Kurapica did not have a brother kill his family hoping to raise him with the power of hate to kill him in battle only to then brainwash him to return to the village as a hero now did he...


----------



## Butcher (Oct 13, 2014)

Nice to know a more in-depth version of what has happened to Hakuryuu.


----------



## ~VK~ (Oct 13, 2014)

Ice Cream said:


> Two circles seem to come from the same spear.



Yes, but on two diffrent spearheads.


----------



## Magnum Miracles (Oct 14, 2014)

Awesome chapter, but I may be a bit biased as I am a major Hakuryuu fan :33.


----------



## Wesley (Oct 15, 2014)

Well, Bellial, your test isn't going to back fire horribly.  Not at all.  You aren't going to force them to embrace their dark sides and release their inhibitions lol

There shouldn't be any reasoning with Hakuryuu and Judar after this test if Bellial's power is all it's cracked up to be.  Would the fact that something is not an illusion make that much of a difference to Hakuryuu and Judar?  Maybe it would have if they hadn't been tested in this way before hand.  

This'll end up being a practice run for when they finally kill everyone lol


----------



## ~VK~ (Oct 15, 2014)

So what does haku have exactly the same as judar?


----------



## luffy no haki (Oct 15, 2014)

This only means that Hakuryuu won?t conquer another fucking dungeon unless bellial suddenly changes his goal since he apparently wante dHakuryuu to embrace the light.


----------



## ~VK~ (Oct 15, 2014)

So wait is this a FB? Why doesn't it look like a FB? You know with the black lines?


----------



## Darth (Oct 15, 2014)

why is Belial testing Judar? Can a Magi be a potential King candidate now?


----------



## Wesley (Oct 15, 2014)

Darth said:


> why is Belial testing Judar? Can a Magi be a potential King candidate now?



You didn't see monsters from previous dungeons go easy on Aladdin, did you?


----------



## Butcher (Oct 17, 2014)

Is that development I see in Judar's near future ?


----------



## Wesley (Oct 17, 2014)

He's chosen his king and is going to destroy the world.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Oct 18, 2014)

I really enjoyed this chapter. Its great to see judar being so ruthless while learning that he DOES actually have feelings. 

Man its been a while since ive been on here. Reading rica paitans messages was mind numbing and brain cell damaging.  You guys should try the magi forums on Mangahelpers or myanimelist. Much more positive and informative in general. Especially mangahelpers.

btw, westley, I know we've had our dissagreements with aladdin in the past, but I gotta say thanks for the links you gave to those magi omakes a while back. They were hilarious! Especially the one about alibaba and hakuryu talking about their relationships with women and all of their misunderstandings XD


----------



## Malvingt2 (Oct 18, 2014)

crystalblade13 said:


> I really enjoyed this chapter. Its great to see judar being so ruthless while learning that he DOES actually have feelings.
> 
> Man its been a while since ive been on here. Reading rica paitans messages was mind numbing and brain cell damaging.  *You guys should try the magi forums on Mangahelpers or myanimelist. Much more positive and informative in general. Especially mangahelpers.*
> 
> btw, westley, I know we've had our dissagreements with aladdin in the past, but I gotta say thanks for the links you gave to those magi omakes a while back. They were hilarious! Especially the one about alibaba and hakuryu talking about their relationships with women and all of their misunderstandings XD



Yeah. I do lurk around on those some times.


----------



## Wesley (Oct 19, 2014)

crystalblade13 said:


> btw, westley, I know we've had our dissagreements with aladdin in the past, but I gotta say thanks for the links you gave to those magi omakes a while back. They were hilarious! Especially the one about alibaba and hakuryu talking about their relationships with women and all of their misunderstandings XD



You're welcome.  I really like this series and want others too enjoy it.  The mangaka loves her work too and I want others to appreciate that.

Edit: Wow, the omakes are so informative.  Hakuei's first household, the little boy who is actually about 20 is the younger brother of the snakey household of En.



More Omakes!


----------



## crystalblade13 (Oct 19, 2014)

Lol,  judar and hakuryuu XD. Super serious koen and alibaba too wtf. Ohtaka is a freaking riot!


----------



## belkrax (Oct 20, 2014)

Wesley said:


> You're welcome.  I really like this series and want others too enjoy it.  The mangaka loves her work too and I want others to appreciate that.
> 
> Edit: Wow, the omakes are so informative.  Hakuei's first household, the little boy who is actually about 20 is the younger brother of the snakey household of En.
> 
> ...



Seeing those omakes, am i the only one that feels that Kouha is into Judal or something?

Too clingy.


----------



## Wesley (Oct 20, 2014)

crystalblade13 said:


> Lol,  judar and hakuryuu XD. Super serious koen and alibaba too wtf. Ohtaka is a freaking riot!



It's a Children's Card that determines the fate of the world!


----------



## Rai (Oct 20, 2014)

Chapter 244 RAW: 2


----------



## Wesley (Oct 20, 2014)

*Spoiler*: __ 



It was pretty much a forgone conclusion as to how the dungeon dive would turn out.


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Oct 20, 2014)

Wesley said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> It was pretty much a forgone conclusion as to how the dungeon dive would turn out.




Pretty much?
We were told in advance, that he succeeded.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Oct 20, 2014)

*rolls eyes*

Neither of you get it, do you?


*Spoiler*: __ 



What we saw in this chapter was *HOW* Hakuryuu succeeded in acquiring a new Djinn.  As the spoilers imply, it does not look like Belial went willingly.


----------



## Wesley (Oct 20, 2014)

I knew how it'd go down with the last chapter.  Djinn of Truth and Conviction?  His attempt to purify Hakuryuu and Judar?  Well, he succeeded, just not in the way he was hoping.  There is such a thing as 'pure' evil you know?


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Oct 24, 2014)

Row row fight the power.
Hakuryuu went "fuck the system, its my way or the highway!"


----------



## ensoriki (Oct 24, 2014)

I get why Hakuryuu fell to depravity, seriously I get it.
I don't get the direct change in his demeanor after he fell.
Does the fall to depravity "Snap" a person?


----------



## The_Evil (Oct 24, 2014)

So I guess that next thing for Hakuryuu is to kill his sister and activate Mangekyou Sharingan.


----------



## Wesley (Oct 24, 2014)

You could feel the bromance between those two.


----------



## LordPerucho (Oct 24, 2014)

The_Evil said:


> So I guess that next thing for Hakuryuu is to kill his sister and activate Mangekyou Sharingan.



LOL, Hakuryuu is Sasuke done the right way, also does that mean Morg will the one who TNJs him?


----------



## Butcher (Oct 24, 2014)

Hakuryuu might now be my favorite character of the series 

He made the djinn his bitch. Judar was actually pretty cool too.


----------



## Dark Dragon (Oct 24, 2014)

The_Evil said:


> So I guess that next thing for Hakuryuu is to kill his sister and activate Mangekyou Sharingan.



Noooo Hakuei can't die, she's my favorite  It's unsettling because Hakuryuu seems so set on killing her and Morgiana. But I know she's expendable in the overall story, so the likelihood of her dying is high now. Why can't she have a bigger role in the story? 

On a brighter note, we're probably gonna see Alibaba conquer one or more dungeons in the future now that Hakuryuu has more than one vessel. I can't wait to see more of that.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Oct 24, 2014)

ensoriki said:


> I get why Hakuryuu fell to depravity, seriously I get it.
> I don't get the direct change in his demeanor after he fell.
> Does the fall to depravity "Snap" a person?



It was mentioned that the Black Rukh the magicians wielded carried out the will of those magicians in Alma Torran...but a part of me is not so sure.  It was mentioned that there was a "voice" inside them, and there is an associated "black spot" inside both Hakuryuu and Judar.  Belial even mentions that Judar's power felt like Ill Ilah itself, as shown by the manifestation of the "third eye".

It makes me wonder if people seem to be mistaken about the nature of the Black Rukh created by Alma Torran, and that it might be Ill Ilah working his will in this manner in order to reclaim the Rukh that Solomon stripped of him.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Oct 24, 2014)

Based on new info from the flash back.

Going into depravity as they call it is not actually that bad, its just going against the ideals and system set up by king solomon/Ugo.

And fuck the both of them so yea


----------



## Wesley (Oct 24, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> It was mentioned that the Black Rukh the magicians wielded carried out the will of those magicians in Alma Torran...but a part of me is not so sure.  It was mentioned that there was a "voice" inside them, and there is an associated "black spot" inside both Hakuryuu and Judar.  Belial even mentions that Judar's power felt like Ill Ilah itself, as shown by the manifestation of the "third eye".
> 
> It makes me wonder if people seem to be mistaken about the nature of the Black Rukh created by Alma Torran, and that it might be Ill Ilah working his will in this manner in order to reclaim the Rukh that Solomon stripped of him.



Does Il Ilah exist in a state that resembles the Black Rukh or does the Black Rukh exist in a state that resembles Il Ilah?


----------



## Dark Dragon (Oct 24, 2014)

It's also something to note that although Sinbad and Kouen have always been deemed the top candidates to be "King," they aren't any Magi's personal pick to be their king vessel. Yunan may have backed Sinbad up prior to the series starting, but Yunan no longer supports Sinbad. Seems like Aladdin and Judar picked their king vessels, now I wonder who Titus and Yunan will pick?


----------



## Rokudaime (Oct 25, 2014)

LordPerucho said:


> LOL, Hakuryuu is Sasuke *done the right way*, also does that mean Morg will the one who TNJs him?



How so? Sasuke went against the world because he felt the world was treating his beloved brother like shit. If Sasuke knew the entire truth about his brother, he will not slay his brother down.

Hakuryuu has sister, who is ALIVE and CARE about him, but he decides to kill her because of his own selfishness.


----------



## LordPerucho (Oct 25, 2014)

Hakuryuu reasoning is right, his "mother" killed his brothers before his eyes, and he was forced to accept his destiny, he said screw it and he wants to create his own path. The part when she asks fake Hakurei if she knew something was wrong with the country and Gokyuen, why she didnt do anything is why im supporting Hakuryuu

Even though he is now fucked in the head when he wants to kill the real Morg, that should please the AlibabaxMorg shippders.


----------



## ensoriki (Oct 25, 2014)

Rokudaime said:


> How so? Sasuke went against the world because he felt the world was treating his beloved brother like shit. If Sasuke knew the entire truth about his brother, he will not slay his brother down.
> 
> Hakuryuu has sister, who is ALIVE and CARE about him, but he decides to kill her because of his own selfishness.



he doesnt plan to kill his sister, he just struck down the illusion.
He says he will kill Mor.

Hakuryuu knew what the right thing and he wanted to accept them but he cant just magically wish the resentment inside away. His anger burns in his chest and the easiest thing for him emotionally is to appease his anger than to go with his friends. the whole situation is tied to fate so he rebels against it. 
It all makes emotional sense until he says he wants to kill Mor, That seems to be him trying to prove to himself that Alibabas way isnt right and shes wrong by association.

tl:dr. Sasuke didnt and doesnt know how to live without hate, to hate or to be hated.
Hakuryuu knows peace but cant accept it because it doesnt deal with the lingering feelings he has. belial tried to get him to move past those feelings but instead he brought them to the surface. dont be surprised if Sinbad has similar emotions waiting to come out.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Oct 25, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Does Il Ilah exist in a state that resembles the Black Rukh or does the Black Rukh exist in a state that resembles Il Ilah?



The Black Rukh as it was in Alma Torran was infused with the "Will of Ill Ilah", and it was that "Will" that allowed Ill Ilah to guide the "Destiny" of Alma Torran as it saw fit.  The narration in the chapter Sheba died implied that the new Black Rukh was carrying out "The Will of the Magicians", and they no longer needed "Ill Ilah's divine protection".

However, the end goal of Al-Thamen is to bring Ill Ilah down into the world in order to suck up all the White Rukh and to destroy the world; Arba's devotion to Ill Ilah seems contrary to Ithnan's statement that they are trying to fight against "Destiny", which is what Ill Ilah's Will embodied in the Rukh of Alma Torran.

As a result, it appears more likely that, while they can use the Black Rukh to carry out "their Will", Ill Ilah's Will still exists in the Black Rukh and it is pushing people into certain directions once they "fall into depravity" in order to reclaim all the Rukh that Solomon took from it.


----------



## Magnum Miracles (Oct 27, 2014)

ensoriki said:


> He says he will kill Mor.



Thank God. 'Cause I really like Hakuei, even if she hasn't been in the series all that much since the beginning.

Needs moar panel time.


----------



## Kellogem (Oct 27, 2014)

I think that the "good bye sister" in implying he is ready to kill Hakuei as well. he is aware thats just an illusion and not the real Hakuei, so it speaks about his state of mind, like he is modelling what he is planning to do and going to say.


----------



## son_michael (Oct 28, 2014)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Based on new info from the flash back.
> 
> Going into depravity as they call it is not actually that bad, its just going against the ideals and system set up by king solomon/Ugo.
> 
> And fuck the both of them so yea



So you missed the part where he embraces killing his sister and the girl he supposedly loves?


----------



## Wesley (Oct 28, 2014)

If you aren't with me, you're against me.  Sums up Hakuryuu's mentality at this point.


----------



## Stilzkin (Oct 28, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> As a result, it appears more likely that, while they can use the Black Rukh to carry out "their Will", Ill Ilah's Will still exists in the Black Rukh and it is pushing people into certain directions once they "fall into depravity" in order to reclaim all the Rukh that Solomon took from it.



I don't think that's it.

Ill Ilah's "will" seemed to be chaos, there was no real "destiny". Solomon changed that and created a system where there is something closer to destiny (though it may still be very broad).




son_michael said:


> So you missed the part where he embraces killing his sister and the girl he supposedly loves?



Going into depravity just means breaking free from Solomon. Solomon had human ideals and he placed those ideals into his world. 

In a sense Solomon may have taken some free will away from sentient life and falling into depravity is taking that back. At the same time it technically isn't as both black and white rukh are streams of destiny except white rukh is made with human thought behind it and black rukh is either random destiny or some strange god-given destiny (depending on whatever you think Ill Ilah is exactly).


----------



## son_michael (Oct 28, 2014)

Stilzkin said:


> Going into depravity just means breaking free from Solomon. Solomon had human ideals and he placed those ideals into his world.
> 
> In a sense Solomon may have taken some free will away from sentient life and falling into depravity is taking that back. At the same time it technically isn't as both black and white rukh are streams of destiny except white rukh is made with human thought behind it and black rukh is either random destiny or some strange god-given destiny (depending on whatever you think Ill Ilah is exactly).




Solomon didn't take free will from anybody, if he did then Al Thamen wouldn't exist. 

See people are going to rationalize Hakuryu's actions because they like him LOL this is what fans ALWAYS DO. The truth is that failing into depravity= BAD GUY. Both Hakuryu and Judar are puppets that are being manipulated by Ill Ilah and that manipulation is making them shrug off human emotions EXCEPT for hatred and revenge.

 Failing into depravity isn't taking back Sentience, it's losing independent thought and being an instrument of darkness.


----------



## Wesley (Oct 28, 2014)

We spent 5 fucking months on that god forsaken arc and there was literally no point to it other than to wank Aladdin's parents, whom he cares nothing for.


----------



## son_michael (Oct 28, 2014)

Wesley said:


> We spent 5 fucking months on that god forsaken arc and there was literally no point to it other than to wank Aladdin's parents, whom he cares nothing for.



um..we learned about the origin of the rukh, how the world was created, the truth about Morg's clan, the origins of Al Thalmen and why the Djin exist..Not to mention get the whole world working together to defeat Al Thalmen


so yeah...a lot of important shit happened in this arc.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Oct 28, 2014)

son_michael said:


> Solomon didn't take free will from anybody, if he did then Al Thamen wouldn't exist.
> 
> See people are going to rationalize Hakuryu's actions because they like him LOL this is what fans ALWAYS DO. The truth is that failing into depravity= BAD GUY. Both Hakuryu and Judar are puppets that are being manipulated by Ill Ilah and that manipulation is making them shrug off human emotions EXCEPT for hatred and revenge.
> 
> Failing into depravity isn't taking back Sentience, it's losing independent thought and being an instrument of darkness.



Nah I have no love for the Sauce(hakuryu or Judar) just stating my opinion. 

Based on new information depravity is not what we once thought. Not trying to say people in depravity are saints its called depravity for a reason afterall.


----------



## Wesley (Oct 28, 2014)

son_michael said:


> um..we learned about the origin of the rukh, how the world was created, the truth about Morg's clan, the origins of Al Thalmen and why the Djin exist..Not to mention get the whole world working together to defeat Al Thalmen
> 
> 
> so yeah...a lot of important shit happened in this arc.



All of which that could have been condensed into a single chapter.  Not 5 worthless months of Sheba being in love with Solomon.  Worst of all, it was all meaningless and had no baring on the present day.  

It was the second longest arc this manga has ever had and it was a total waste of time.


----------



## Stilzkin (Oct 28, 2014)

son_michael said:


> Both Hakuryu and Judar are puppets that are being manipulated by Ill Ilah and that manipulation is making them shrug off human emotions EXCEPT for hatred and revenge.
> 
> Failing into depravity isn't taking back Sentience, it's losing independent thought and being an instrument of darkness.



Except that's not what the flashback suggests at all. 

We are left with the question of whether Ill Ilah has any sort of intelligence at all.

There is definitely nothing pointing to Ill Ilah being some sort of evil force.


----------



## son_michael (Oct 28, 2014)

Wesley said:


> All of which that could have been condensed into a single chapter.  Not 5 worthless months of Sheba being in love with Solomon.  Worst of all, it was all meaningless and had no baring on the present day.
> 
> It was the second longest arc this manga has ever had and it was a total waste of time.



I agree it could have been shorter but at least it did what it was supposed to do.



Stilzkin said:


> Except that's not what the flashback suggests at all.
> 
> We are left with the question of whether Ill Ilah has any sort of intelligence at all.
> 
> There is definitely nothing pointing to Ill Ilah being some sort of evil force.



What about the voice inside of Hakuryu and Judar? Seems like they are possessed by an evil force.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Oct 28, 2014)

Wesley said:


> All of which that could have been condensed into a single chapter.  Not 5 worthless months of Sheba being in love with Solomon.  Worst of all, it was all meaningless and had no baring on the present day.
> 
> It was the second longest arc this manga has ever had and it was a total waste of time.



Shut up wesley.


----------



## Stilzkin (Oct 28, 2014)

son_michael said:


> What about the voice inside of Hakuryu and Judar? Seems like they are possessed by an evil force.



Where does that happen?


----------



## ensoriki (Oct 28, 2014)

Alma Toran arc can suck my balls, lick the hair clean off em. Unless the ghost of David comes in here idgaf really.

This is Kings Candidate time.
Alibaba time to be exact.


----------



## convict (Oct 29, 2014)

I am very glad I took a hiatus from Magi during the Alma Toran arc and read it all in one go. It flowed smoothly and was enjoyable enough but I can definitely imagine the frustration of reading it weekly.


----------



## Kellogem (Oct 29, 2014)

Is there no magi this week or what?


----------



## Wesley (Oct 29, 2014)

No chapter this week.  Oddly enough, the Sinbad manga did get a chapter.


----------



## Imagine (Oct 29, 2014)

I need my weekly dose.


----------



## Wesley (Oct 29, 2014)

I think he was speaking metaphorically.  Hatred can seem like a monster clawing it's away around inside of you.


----------



## son_michael (Oct 29, 2014)

Wesley said:


> I think he was speaking metaphorically.  Hatred can seem like a monster clawing it's away around inside of you.



I disagree, the 2 last chapters just scream possession of them both by Ill Ilah to me..Otherwise how would hakuryou awaken an eye like Solomon's will? Beliial even says "this feels like Ill Ilah" there's no doubt in my mind that they are both possessed.


----------



## Wesley (Oct 29, 2014)

I'd rather hope not.  It's much more interesting for them to have cleared their conscience and gone full on into "FUCK THE WORLD!" mode without looking back.  This way everything they do is their fault and their former friends and allies have a couple of assholes who won't hesitate to murder them for kicks.


----------



## ensoriki (Oct 30, 2014)

Lol whats so interesting about it.
Their fall to depravity is understandable. The near instant high contrast personality change isn't quite so, unless there is an underlying mechanic to Black Rukh/Depravity that causes a personality change the very moment you fall.
Given Illah controlled peoples destiny, by removing their Rukh from Solomons flow, Illah probably is interjecting his will on them. Which adds a certain level of world weaving that "we snapped" just doesn't bring.


----------



## Wesley (Oct 30, 2014)

People can be conflicted about things.  They can feel one way and think or believe another.  It's not inconsistent, it's just a fact people are more complicated than what the surface may indicate.  Did they "snap"?  No, they've chosen their path after years of internal conflict.

If it was some outside influence that co-opted their better judgment, that would imply that there is a magical way of changing their ways.  And that would be too easy.  Forcing Aladdin and friends to kill them and for Judar and Hakuryuu to be right up to the end irredeemable would cause all manner of doubts and emotions to arise them.

Aladdin is such a robotic little putz that anything that could cause him to question or doubt something would be a welcome change.


----------



## Kellogem (Oct 30, 2014)

I hope even if they are not possessed, but influenced by Ill Ilah.. too big of a change of heart. Hakuryuu loved Morgiana, and now he considers her trash and want to kill her just for being on Alibabas side just like that..? they havent even met since a long time. it would be Kishimoto level of writing. 

I think its like suppressed emotions brought to the surface, like something thats already inside Hakuryuu - not Ill Ilah - but normally he could suppress them, but Ill Ilah brings out the worst in them. anyway Im sure they wont be irredeemable.


----------



## Wesley (Oct 30, 2014)

I think it's clear that Belial forced them into a situation where they had to choose to be good or evil and they chose evil.  They probably would have gone on being conflicted forever about who they are and what they're willing to do if they hadn't entered into a life or death situation.

If your friends and family are nothing more than obstacles to what you really want to do...what exactly are you supposed to think or feel about them?  They made their decision and it's a decision that no one they care about will support.  Everyone they know is their enemy because of the decision they made, and they've accepted it.


----------



## ensoriki (Oct 31, 2014)

Was it said if Magicians can be kings candidates? I would assume so, there shouldn't be anything biologically stopping them but all our candidates are Goi.

Is this to limit them? Aladdin basically used a djinns power back when he had Ugo in his flute.
Magician + metal vessal too strong?


----------



## son_michael (Oct 31, 2014)

Wesley said:


> I think it's clear that Belial forced them into a situation where they had to choose to be good or evil and they chose evil.  They probably would have gone on being conflicted forever about who they are and what they're willing to do if they hadn't entered into a life or death situation.



it was more like Belial was trying to cleanse them but he couldn't because there was a great evil deep seated in both of them. Trying to cleanse them simply exposed there was a lot more evil then there was good and they embraced the evil.



> If your friends and family are nothing more than obstacles to what you really want to do...what exactly are you supposed to think or feel about them?  They made their decision and it's a decision that no one they care about will support.  Everyone they know is their enemy because of the decision they made, and they've accepted it.




normal sane people wouldn't want to kill their loved ones just because their loved ones don't support them. last time Hakuryu left he was sad to leave his friends but felt like he had no choice, now he's ready to slaughter them with a maniacal laughter. Not only his friends, but his pure heated sister as well. You just can't rationalize such behavior. Then you have Judar talking about how he can't turn good because something inside him won't allow it and Hakuryuu getting that third solomon like eye...all are evidence to support these 2 are being manipulated.


----------



## Wesley (Oct 31, 2014)

ensoriki said:


> Was it said if Magicians can be kings candidates? I would assume so, there shouldn't be anything biologically stopping them but all our candidates are Goi.
> 
> Is this to limit them? Aladdin basically used a djinns power back when he had Ugo in his flute.
> Magician + metal vessal too strong?



A magician can be a king, but they can't use a djinn.  The djinn's magical codes would interfere with the magician's and vise versa.



son_michael said:


> it was more like Belial was trying to cleanse them but he couldn't because there was a great evil deep seated in both of them. Trying to cleanse them simply exposed there was a lot more evil then there was good and they embraced the evil.



If someone tells you to sit down, don't you feel like standing up?  Hakuryuu and Judar took offense to the idea that how they felt didn't matter.

As for the rest, Hakuryuu and Judar do not qualify as insane.  They are just really pissed off and have been for a long time.  Dwelling on what's happened to them and how unfair it is has prepared them for the day when they cast everything aside and do something about it.  It's not crazy to kill people you love or care about it.  People do it all of the time, and not always in the heat of the moment.


----------



## son_michael (Oct 31, 2014)

Wesley said:


> As for the rest, Hakuryuu and Judar do not qualify as insane.  They are just really pissed off and have been for a long time.  Dwelling on what's happened to them and how unfair it is has prepared them for the day when they cast everything aside and do something about it.  *It's not crazy to kill people you love or care about it.  People do it all of the time, and not always in the heat of the moment.*




you might want to go see somebody professional...mental institution seems like a good bet.


----------



## Wesley (Oct 31, 2014)

How many people do you think are in prison for murdering their spouse or children?


----------



## Kellogem (Oct 31, 2014)

Wesley said:


> I think it's clear that Belial forced them into a situation where they had to choose to be good or evil and they chose evil.  They probably would have gone on being conflicted forever about who they are and what they're willing to do if they hadn't entered into a life or death situation.





still they are not themselves if after the whole mindrape they dont go back to their usual self... its one thing to decide to chose evil in a specific situation, if they have to choose, but once that situation is no more, and they dont have the reason to act evil anymore, people would go back to their usual conflicted self - I mean whats the reason Hakuryuu would have to kill Morgiana right now?  



> If your friends and family are nothing more than obstacles to what you really want to do...what exactly are you supposed to think or feel about them?  They made their decision and it's a decision that no one they care about will support.  Everyone they know is their enemy because of the decision they made, and they've accepted it.



ignore them? incapacitate them? definitely not killing them. its not like Morgiana stands between him and his goal and he doesnt even have a reason to assume she will, at least as far as killing Gyokuen is concerned. even if she would, he has the option of incapacitating her without killing her.



> How many people do you think are in prison for murdering their spouse or children?



most of them have a reason to do so, in Hakuryuus case he'd do it just to prove he can, or just for the sake of cutting ties. sane people dont cut ties with others by murdering them, they just dont call them anymore.


----------



## Wesley (Oct 31, 2014)

Kell?gem said:


> still they are not themselves if after the whole mindrape they dont go back to their usual self... its one thing to decide to chose evil in a specific situation, if they have to choose, but once that situation is no more, and they dont have the reason to act evil anymore, people would go back to their usual conflicted self - I mean whats the reason Hakuryuu would have to kill Morgiana right now?



He's judged her and found her wanting.  Also the fact that she will very likely try to stop him while acting on Alibaba's behalf.  



> ignore them? incapacitate them? definitely not killing them. its not like Morgiana stands between him and his goal and he doesnt even have a reason to assume she will, at least as far as killing Gyokuen is concerned. even if she would, he has the option of incapacitating her without killing her.



His goal involves the Kou Empire and beyond.



> most of them have a reason to do so, in Hakuryuus case he'd do it just to prove he can, or just for the sake of cutting ties. sane people dont cut ties with others by murdering them, they just dont call them anymore.



Hakuryuu is not someone that can be ignored.  They will confront him, he knows he's not going to be able to convince them to his point of view, and they will try to stop him.  There's a reason why there are some subjects that people really don't want to talk about; worming through them will lead to a grisly and miserable outcome.  Hence why even while recognizing his anger, Hakuryuu was isolated instead of confronted.


----------



## Black Knight (Nov 1, 2014)

What!?


*Spoiler*: __ 



friend gained Mogamett's knowledge!


----------



## Wesley (Nov 1, 2014)

*Spoiler*: __ 



lol Mogamett is like a cave man compared to Sheba.


----------



## Rai (Nov 2, 2014)

245 RAW: Link removed


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Nov 6, 2014)

What up with magi lately?

Seems like it takes forever for a chapter to come out.


----------



## Wesley (Nov 7, 2014)

Suppose I'll comment on the new Sinbad arc.  Although arc is probably too generous a term.  It's almost episodic, but not quite in terms of structure.  You can't even say the dungeon conquering is the basis for each story segment.

Anyway, I'm very skeptical of Sasan not being made into a bad guy of sorts before it's all over.  Very conservative, very religious.  Makes them perfect butt monkeys for crude jokes.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Nov 7, 2014)

That's some Sith Lord-level mind-warping right there.


----------



## Drakor (Nov 7, 2014)

I knew Hakuryuu was insightful but when he's not holding back and given free reign to apply his machinations...interesting that the dolls/black rukh Judal and Gyokuen use is pretty much like the internet


----------



## Kellogem (Nov 7, 2014)

so the Al Thamens Hakuryuu were controlling are just the puppets? and how does this works, what about the real magi behind them?


----------



## Malvingt2 (Nov 7, 2014)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> What up with magi lately?
> 
> Seems like it takes forever for a chapter to come out.



The group is short of staff for their Mangas.


----------



## Rukia (Nov 7, 2014)

Hakuryuu is such a twat.  Hopes he gets killed in a brutal way.  Won't be able to put up with much more of his behavior.


----------



## Wesley (Nov 7, 2014)

I was a bit skeptical of going into detail concerning Hakuryuu's rebellion and assassination of Gyokuen, but this stuff is actually kind of interesting.  I like tactics and strategy and seeing just how far Hakuryuu is willing to go to achieve his goals.  Not only is he lying, but he's literally forcing others to believe his lies.  

And while I don't like Mogamett, it's fun seeing him give Judar a migraine.  It'll be interesting to see if Mogamett's Rukh isn't a double edged sword.  If he can put up any resistance at all, unlikely though that might have seemed, maybe he can put up more resistance?


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Nov 7, 2014)

This chapter was amazing. 

These two are really putting in work.


----------



## Palm Siberia (Nov 7, 2014)

Does Magi have technology like Naruto does now


----------



## Vandal Savage (Nov 7, 2014)

Pretty impressed with Hakuryuu. He didn't just go in without a plan like Alibaba did in Balbadd. He knew he needed time to explore Belial's abilities and gain a foothold to use against Al Thamen. Speaking of which, their information network is a bitch to deal with. I knew the dolls were annoying but not _that_ annoying. At least Hakuryuu knew those bastards were following him around all the time. I wonder if they got to report him conquering his second dungeon before they got caught?

As far as Judar goes, getting to use Mogamett's knowledge and rukh should help him not lose to Aladdin in terms of magical knowledge. Bringing in the medium's power on top of it is currently overkill so I'll put him in the lead right now.


----------



## Rica_Patin (Nov 12, 2014)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> If you seriously think this is anywhere near the level of Naruto, your an imbecile.
> Magi might have its flaws, but it at least makes sense.



You're*
.
.
.


----------



## Kellogem (Nov 12, 2014)

there are a couple of spoiler pics out..


shit is about to hit the fan..

Edit: they took it down..


----------



## Kellogem (Nov 13, 2014)

246 raw:
Link removed


----------



## Shukumei (Nov 13, 2014)

Looks promising


----------



## Palm Siberia (Nov 13, 2014)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Gyouken does not sound scared or afraid that her son is out to kill her that usually means something is up...


----------



## son_michael (Nov 13, 2014)

Palm Siberia said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Gyouken does not sound scared or afraid that her son is out to kill her that usually means something is up...




*Spoiler*: __ 



 She just doesn't understand that she's been abandoned by her God. Once she sees it inside of Hakuryuu she will lose the confidence and embrace the despair.


----------



## Kellogem (Nov 14, 2014)

yeah, except Alibaba doesnt have a man crush on Hakuryuu and is minding his own damn business, Hakuryuu is consistently written and Gyokuen is a well established villain with a personality and past and not an emotionless doll pulled from the mangakas ass as a last minute attempt.

its like naruto written decently..


----------



## Palm Siberia (Nov 14, 2014)

Kell?gem said:


> yeah, except Alibaba doesnt have a man crush on Hakuryuu and is minding his own damn business, Hakuryuu is consistently written and Gyokuen is a well established villain with a personality and past and not an emotionless doll pulled from the mangakas ass as a last minute attempt.
> 
> its like naruto written decently..



Well who cares about a well built villain that is now dead >_> 
Long live Lelou-err Hakuryuu!


----------



## Kellogem (Nov 14, 2014)

Palm Siberia said:


> Well who cares about a well built villain that is now dead >_>
> Long live Lelou-err Hakuryuu!



I think Gyokuen will return.. just like how this is obviously not the end for Al Thamen either as they are going to be the final antagonists..or something along the line of Gyokuen - David - Il Ilah.


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Nov 14, 2014)

Long live the King.
I'm seriously routing for Hakuryuu to kill Kouen.

Also lol'ing at the Kouen fanboys right now.
After all those claims how Kouen>Sinbad as a ruler, because of his mind control usage,  its revealed Kouen does the exact same shit.


----------



## Wesley (Nov 14, 2014)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuCGiV-EVjA[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## ensoriki (Nov 14, 2014)

I want Judar to show Hakuryuu the information from the summit.
It would be such a meagre point but I'd find it interesting if he told Aladdin he should have avenged his parents with him. Obv Aladdin doesnt give a darn but I want to see if Hakuryuu would feel that kind of connection.


----------



## Kellogem (Nov 14, 2014)

couldnt Hakuryuu just show them fake images and scenes regardless its true or not? I bet there is some magic like projecting illusions right from your head without mindfucking everyone one at a time..

I wouldnt trust any magical bullshit if I was living in this world. only what I see with my own eyes and perceive as reality -and even that could be illusion,- but Id definitely not believe something which is supposed to be the past while showing me through magical means.


----------



## Vandal Savage (Nov 14, 2014)

Hakuryuu the true king has returned for his throne and impressed me even more with pressing on in spite of the fact Kouen used Phenex to fuck him over. Love the lengths Sinbad/Kouen/Hakuryuu go to accomplish their goals and fight for their kingdoms but one is an usurper who is hopefully going to pay for being in bed with Arba/Gyokuen and Al Thamen. 

Aladdin's reaction to Hakuryuu's depraved state should be entertaining even if he is actually doing the work that he and Alibaba are clearly unable to do in regards to the Kou Empire. What I _really_ want to see is what Sinbad does in regards to this considering he is halfway fallen himself but I'd think his hatred of Al Thamen would have him siding with Hakuryuu.


----------



## The_Evil (Nov 14, 2014)

Hakuuryu continues being little shit.

Also, I lol at him for thinking he's actually out of Gyuuken's palm.


----------



## Palm Siberia (Nov 14, 2014)

Next week should determine if he really becomes a king or is still a pawn to his mother...


----------



## The_Evil (Nov 14, 2014)

This whole situation just seems too convenient for Gouken. Just when the world powers are about to stop fighting and form a coalition against Al Thamen she gets "killed" and the  whole thing goes down the drain...


----------



## Vandal Savage (Nov 14, 2014)

I'm pretty sure he is still a pawn to his mother's plan. She likely wants to use him as the medium for Ill Ilah and she's probably elated that he has finally fallen into depravity. Even if Hakuryuu "kills" Gyokuen here I don't put it past her to have a back up plan (or body) that will show up later down the line. As far as I remember that isn't Arba's real body anyway just some Rukh fuckery to take over it and do what she wants.


----------



## The_Evil (Nov 14, 2014)

I think she might have planned this from the beginning. The depth of his hate seems kind of unnatural, I suspect she might have done something to him to make him that way.

Also I think Arba real body is sealed together with Ill Ilyah anyway.


----------



## Kellogem (Nov 14, 2014)

I wonder what order the sides are going to fight and with who...

first I think Hakuryuu vs Kouen, but its going to get interrupted... then Sinbad / Sindria vs Kouen / Kou, and Sinbad is going to kill Kouen, then Aladdin and Alibaba vs Hakuryuu and Judar and get the latter ones redeemed, then Alibaba vs Sinbad with Alibaba defeating him and in the end whoever is going to represents Il Ilah and Al Thamen vs Aladdin and Alibaba, and Sinbad is going to sacrifice himself to help taking down the big bad.

I also want to see Sinbad supporting Hakuryuu against Alibaba and Aladdin.

so many options.. I hope another large scale war is incoming. Also bring in Falan if Sinbad havent killed her yet during his adventures..


----------



## Wesley (Nov 14, 2014)

Remember back to the Sindria arc when Kougyokou accused Sinbad of molesting her.  Yamu's magic was used to reveal the truth and Hakuryuu said there was a similar magic in Kou that was regarded as legitimate.  This is the magic that was and apparently it can only tell the truth.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Nov 16, 2014)

damn I didn't know the chapter was out busy with work... time to read


----------



## Palm Siberia (Nov 17, 2014)




----------



## Rai (Nov 18, 2014)

Chapter 247 RAW: another forum


----------



## Catalyst75 (Nov 18, 2014)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Even if Hakuryuu has become completely depraved, Arba still out-crazies him in every single way.


----------



## Stilzkin (Nov 18, 2014)

*Spoiler*: __ 




Seems like she isn't going down without a fight, that's good.


----------



## Wesley (Nov 18, 2014)

Catalyst75 said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Even if Hakuryuu has become completely depraved, Arba still out-crazies him in every single way.



I don't know about that, but she's certainly more fun.


----------



## Kellogem (Nov 18, 2014)

gyokuen is the shit..

the two "badass" old guys were a disgrace.

this fight is going to have some twist as well, like the dungeon conquering.


----------



## Imagine (Nov 20, 2014)

*Baki Dou Chap 17*


----------



## son_michael (Nov 20, 2014)

She's so dead, she hasn't realized that Hakuryu is her replacement. Her usefulness has finally come to an end. Can't wait for the flashback when we see her fall into depravity.


----------



## Wesley (Nov 20, 2014)

I haven't been that entertained by a chapter of Magi since the Alibaba the Lonely Heart arc.  I couldn't stop laughing as their plan imploded while she kicked their asses lol


----------



## Kellogem (Nov 20, 2014)

I love Gyokuens crazy faces..

so Hakuryuu is only controlling the Al Thamen puppets, but not the real mages behind them? wonder whats going to happen to the real Al Thamen after Gyokuen "dies".


----------



## ensoriki (Nov 20, 2014)

I have seen the face of crazy.
For Hakuryuu and Judar to win this.

Yeah Alibaba & Co need to do some moar training.
Author is whipping out her inner shonen.


----------



## Palm Siberia (Nov 20, 2014)

At least Ren got one last moment before her swan song unless she faked her death...


----------



## Butcher (Nov 20, 2014)

Gyouken just wrecking bitches .


----------



## Palm Siberia (Nov 20, 2014)

lol


----------



## Kellogem (Nov 20, 2014)

thats two scardy bitches... brown Gandalfs after their pants.

with Gyokuen gone who is going to lead and represent Al Thamen? Hakuryuu is only controlling a couple of dolls, he doesnt know or give a shit about destiny and Ill Ilah..thats another reason she cant stay dead..Al Thamen needs a leader, the big bad.


----------



## Cflip12 (Nov 20, 2014)

There is still Falan, assuming she didn't die along Sinbad journey to power.

Gyokuen faces are creep af. 

Curious as to how Hakuryuu and Judar beat her.


----------



## LordPerucho (Nov 20, 2014)

Im re-reading chapter 240, and for some reason we are see how Judal gets another powerup, since he is the main reason why Gyouken is dead


----------



## Cocidius (Nov 20, 2014)

Hakuryuu is turning out to be a great character. I wonder if he did fight with Alibaba would it have to be as predictable since Ali isn't the main character?Is he allowed to die? Hope so he's the weakest part of the manga.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Nov 20, 2014)

no way she is dead..... Look at her and her power level... insane.


----------



## Palm Siberia (Nov 20, 2014)

Malvingt2 said:


> no way she is dead..... Look at her and her power level... insane.



She's dead because she never went back into the kitchen how dare she be a female big bad in shounen!


----------



## Kellogem (Nov 20, 2014)

Palm Siberia said:


> She's dead because she never went back into the kitchen how dare she be a female big bad in shounen!



technically Kaguya was a female big bad of Naruto...

lets not talk about how it turned out, but the possibility is there..


----------



## LordPerucho (Nov 20, 2014)

Thing is, we saw Judals black rukh getting absorbed by Gyouken, on the next chapter we are gonna see how Judal got another powerup.


----------



## Kellogem (Nov 20, 2014)

Isnt it the third eye thingy?


----------



## Imagine (Nov 20, 2014)

She's too stronk


----------



## ensoriki (Nov 20, 2014)

Cocidius said:


> Hakuryuu is turning out to be a great character. I wonder if he did fight with Alibaba would it have to be as predictable since Ali isn't the main character?*Is he allowed to die? Hope so he's the weakest part of the manga.*






Alladdin is the weakest part.
He's not as bad as Soul Cartels Faust (who is ....ugh) but Alibaba is the Peter Parker of this story.


----------



## Kellogem (Nov 21, 2014)

Imagine said:


> She's too stronk



looks like Nanika. maybe Hakuryuu and Judar should try to have a wish (not to fucking die).


----------



## Wesley (Nov 22, 2014)

I'm going to miss her...so much.


----------



## ensoriki (Nov 22, 2014)

Spoilers are out lazy to link.

All I can say.

Wow.


----------



## Palm Siberia (Nov 22, 2014)

Gheyyy


----------



## LordPerucho (Nov 22, 2014)

Raws




*Spoiler*: __ 



What is the point of bringing back those 2 old guys?

I cant take them seriously after Hakuryuu made them shit in fear.

There was clear CIS on Gyouken, but still It looks like a great chapter.

Dont get tired of her rape faces.


----------



## Wesley (Nov 23, 2014)

Maybe they'll explain what they were thinking next chapter?


----------



## Kellogem (Nov 23, 2014)

so Judar made an isolation barrier.. wonder how he knows stuff like that, was it mogamets knowledge as well, or does he know stuff from Alma Toran? I doubt its simple magic..

also just noticed he is using the same thunder spell Ithnan used in Alma Toran - Ramz Al-Salos.


----------



## Magnum Miracles (Nov 24, 2014)

Judar is on his way to become my favorite Magi.

Him and Hakuryuu make such an entertaining team.


----------



## Wesley (Nov 25, 2014)

Magnum Miracles said:


> Judar is on his way to become my favorite Magi.
> 
> Him and Hakuryuu make such an entertaining team.



They only have each other.  Much better than Aladdin and Alibaba saying how much they believe in the other over and over again.


----------



## eluna (Nov 26, 2014)

Gyokuen manages to get more creepy and creepy in each chapter damn her smile will haunt me tonight


----------



## Santí (Nov 26, 2014)

>Wincest in muh Magi

Shamefur Dispray.


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Nov 26, 2014)

Sant? said:


> >Wincest in muh Magi
> 
> Shamefur Dispray.






Shockingly, I am not surprised she doesn't mind inbreeding.


----------



## Kellogem (Nov 26, 2014)

Gyokuen was always nuts but she is way too aberrant now..

I get it she is a religious fanatic, but that shouldnt make her a sicko all around.


----------



## Gunners (Nov 26, 2014)

She embraced depravity, what did you expect?


----------



## Brian (Nov 26, 2014)

I enjoyed the fighting a lot more when there's no magic involved. Arba's kiss is probably some way for her to control Hakuryuu or a way for her to survive down the line.


----------



## Stilzkin (Nov 26, 2014)

Brian said:


> I enjoyed the fighting a lot more when there's no magic involved. Arba's kiss is probably some way for her to control Hakuryuu or a way for her to survive down the line.



She can't use magic though. Not even their djinn can do anything.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Nov 26, 2014)

Damn.... her face and their faces... priceless.... easy to kill ah? lol


----------



## Kellogem (Nov 26, 2014)

Gunners said:


> She embraced depravity, what did you expect?



so did the other Al Thamen, yet none of them are half as insane.

dont think depravity makes you perverted.


----------



## Gunners (Nov 26, 2014)

Kell?gem said:


> so did the other Al Thamen, yet none of them are half as insane.
> 
> dont think depravity makes you perverted.



Pervertedness falls under the banner of depravity, and of course she's going to take things to a higher level than her stooges.


----------



## Kellogem (Nov 26, 2014)

Gunners said:


> Pervertedness falls under the banner of depravity, and of course she's going to take things to a higher level than her stooges.



she turned batshit before the whole depravity thing with the push of a button back in Alma Toran and her development was everything but natural. 

I think the mangaka is just overdoing it.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Nov 26, 2014)

I love how over the top she is. makes her interesting.

plus i loved her swordfighting, especially when she slid up the wall and when she shoved the hilt into hakus wound.

Its was also a nice touch to have judar kneel and offer up a sword to haku. he really does think of him as his king. its nice development.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Nov 26, 2014)

Brian said:


> I enjoyed the fighting a lot more when there's no magic involved. Arba's kiss is probably some way for her to control Hakuryuu or a way for her to survive down the line.



That is an interesting way of looking at things, but it shows that Arba is just insane right down to the core of her being.


----------



## Imagine (Nov 26, 2014)

This chap. 



She didn't see that one coming.


----------



## Luciana (Nov 26, 2014)

Its such a weird expression, a mix of "wow" and "wtf"


----------



## Palm Siberia (Nov 27, 2014)

Bet that kiss will be abra being transferred into her son...


----------



## Wesley (Nov 27, 2014)

I think that kiss was really just her fucking with him.  He'll never be able to be with a woman without seeing his mom.


----------



## Kellogem (Nov 27, 2014)

maybe Gyokuen sent a snake down Hakuryuus throat like Ithnan into his hand...

he is a good host for Al Thamen, sooner or latter everyone of them is going to have a piece inside of his so they can throw a party. the last one brings the booze.

too bad something like that would require magic I guess..

but man, I didnt expect a sword fight to decide Hakuryuu vs Gyokuen in the end. Gyokuen kicks some major ass, their expression when they found out she is so skilled, priceless. 

but now with the local old folks home I cant see her winning in sword fight with 4 vs 1 and no magic, her options are so limited.


----------



## Wesley (Nov 27, 2014)

It's at this point she reveals that she's left handed.


----------



## Butcher (Nov 27, 2014)

I actually forgot Gyouken was the best swordsman in the other world until now . 

Seeing Hakuryuu just tackle her and beat the shit out of her was great too, despite Gyouken coming back hard with her sword skills.


----------



## Fourangers (Nov 27, 2014)

Whoa Gyouken is fucking creepy. I suspect that she used the whole kissing face not only to fuck with Hakuryuu's mind, but also had concocted some backup plan. There's no way she'll be defeated just this easily.


----------



## ensoriki (Nov 28, 2014)

What I don't get is why does she fuck with Hakuryuu like that.
I get Arba had a screw loose but she didn't seem "that batty"
No seriously why is she like this wtf.
She kept Hakuryuu and Hakurei around for entertainment?
Thats dumb as fuck.


----------



## Wesley (Nov 28, 2014)

Religious people can be very scary when you mess with their god.


----------



## Yuki (Nov 29, 2014)




----------



## Rai (Dec 1, 2014)

249 Chinese scan: what can i eat to lose weight


----------



## GIORNO (Dec 1, 2014)

So didn't Haku say he had already killed Gyokuen at the end of the flashback?


----------



## Palm Siberia (Dec 2, 2014)

*Spoiler*: __ 



 So she's not dead what do the spoilers say?


----------



## Kellogem (Dec 2, 2014)

this was some spartacus level bloodbath.. and thats gyokuen for ya wiping the floor with judar, hakuryuu and hundreds of al thamen puppets in magic battle, and when its sealed kicking the ass of hakuryuu and the 2 generals or whatever they are in a swordfight only getting injured cause her weapons got wrecked, and still manages to be the last one standing.

now I wonder if she fakes her death-..


----------



## Ftg07 (Dec 3, 2014)




----------



## Malvingt2 (Dec 3, 2014)

The chapter is out.....


----------



## crystalblade13 (Dec 3, 2014)

Best action chaper in a LONG while.

100/10

Dat epic swordfighting

Dat loony toons spear spin of death

Dat gyokuen nipple monster

Dat judar retreat

Dat ear and eye ripping gorefest

AND HOLY SHIT DOSE EPIC BITE PANELS

I dont know what i'd do without this series. legendary masterpiece shonen in the making. just...perfect.


----------



## C_Akutabi (Dec 4, 2014)

Bit her damn throat open! 



crystalblade13 said:


> Best action chaper in a LONG while.



I think it really helped that it came down to a physical fight instead of the beam-spam most Magi fights seemed to have become.

Plus, he bit her damn throat open!


----------



## Santí (Dec 4, 2014)

YYYYYYOOOOOOOOOOOOOO/10

:KoL


----------



## Wesley (Dec 4, 2014)

Hakuryuu's power of feelings moment ruined it though.


----------



## Quuon (Dec 4, 2014)

And Gyokuen is still standing in the end.

This bitch is hardcore.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Dec 4, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Hakuryuu's power of feelings moment ruined it though.



But...the bite. Everything is ok because of dat bite. And who knows, maybe the spear breaking will be explained. I mean it's not like he stomped her. He still got stabbed really hard.


----------



## eluna (Dec 4, 2014)

Nice chapter Gyokuen face after her spear breaks is priceless


----------



## Kellogem (Dec 4, 2014)

the action was awesome, but I'd like to see Gyokuen do more magic stuff... she must have all kind of sick looking epic dark magic.

maybe next time..

also Al Thamen needs more faces.


----------



## Ftg07 (Dec 9, 2014)

Yo....


----------



## Wesley (Dec 9, 2014)

Did Hakuryuu and Judar get married?


----------



## Luciana (Dec 9, 2014)

So it seems. 
A dark and edgy wedding that one was.


----------



## Kellogem (Dec 9, 2014)

Gyokuen is not done for, that last smirk she had before exploding indicates she is going to have the last laugh, I doubt she was thinking the explosion can take out Hakuryuu and Judar, she was destroying evidence.


----------



## Palm Siberia (Dec 9, 2014)

*Spoiler*: __ 



 Her head was taken off that usually means death for good then again she could have wanted to die here...


----------



## Lightysnake (Dec 9, 2014)

You have to remember that Arba is more than a body now.


----------



## Palm Siberia (Dec 9, 2014)

I suppose that could be the case but it would be a shock if Arba wanted to die like this. Medusa let herself be killed for good by Crona perhaps it's the same here.


----------



## Kellogem (Dec 9, 2014)

Palm Siberia said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Her head was taken off that usually means death for good then again she could have wanted to die here...



*Spoiler*: __ 




well, usually someone who has had her head taken cant smile after and explode, so I think common sense does not apply to Gyokuen..

also Judar had to turn the isolation barrier off to use his borg, which could mean she was free to use some magical escape shit at the last moment.

now this got me thinking... if the isolation barrier was still active how could Gyokuen detonate, isnt that magic as well?


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 14, 2014)

This flashback has been better then the Solomon one lol.

Anyway another solid chapter.


----------



## Wesley (Dec 14, 2014)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> This flashback has been better then the Solomon one lol.
> 
> Anyway another solid chapter.



Short but sweet.


----------



## Kellogem (Dec 14, 2014)

I wonder if they realize they are following Al Thamens will... Hakuryuu should gather from information from the Al Thamen members under his control.


----------



## LordPerucho (Dec 14, 2014)

Flashback was miles better than Alma Toran one because Hakuryuu and Judal are an incredible duo.

Solomon was just a grown up version of Aladdin(aka bland as hell).


----------



## Darth (Dec 14, 2014)

Kell?gem said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Judar didn't turn off the barrier. he specifically stated that they escaped it just in time to use his borg.

as for how the explosion detonated inside the barrier, I can only assume pre-existing magic can still be set off with a passively activated trigger but new magic cannot be performed inside the barrier. 

And yeah, this probably isn't the last we'll see of Gyouken.. 

At the moment, Hakuryuu isn't anywhere near Kouen's level of power. Sure, Kouen's 3 Djinn are more suited for pure battle strength than Hakuryuu's are but even with a third djinn Hakuryuu would still get demolished in a fight. At this point Hakuryuu's going to have to plan some sneaky conniving shit with Judar in order to take Kouen down. 

I think the Kou Empire Civil War arc could be the most interesting arc we'll have yet.


----------



## Palm Siberia (Dec 14, 2014)

Most likely Arba has more flashback material but perhaps the author is keeping her dead just to really make a twist.


----------



## Gunners (Dec 14, 2014)

I laughed when Judar tripped her up. It's like he goes for the simple yet effective tricks.


----------



## Kellogem (Dec 15, 2014)

Darth said:


> Judar didn't turn off the barrier. he specifically stated that they escaped it just in time to use his borg.



well, I was asking that before the translation..



> as for how the explosion detonated inside the barrier, I can only assume pre-existing magic can still be set off with a passively activated trigger but new magic cannot be performed inside the barrier.



wouldnt the trigger be magical as well? just like smiling with your head cut off and the explosion-.

anyway..

I hope Sindbad is going to support Hakuryuu and Judar in the upcoming war, cause the 2 of them can take on only Kouen at best, so there needs to be worthy opponents for the other metal vessel users from Kou.. and its about time the Alliance move their ass and stop being spectators.

then Hakuryuu and Judar vs Kouen would get interrupted by Aladdin and Alibaba so they can "show them the light", and Sindbad would end up killing Kouen.

next arc it would be the protagonists plus Judar, Hakuryuu and a weakened Kou vs Seven Seas Alliance, with Alibaba and Aladdin defeating Sindbad... 

last arc would be about the final boss - David/ Ill Ilah / Al Thamen / Gyoukuen where Sindbad would sacrifice himself to help taking down the final villain.

I wonder if Im going to get anything right..


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 15, 2014)

Two of them can only take on kouen at best?

More like beat the shit out of him.


----------



## Imagine (Dec 15, 2014)

Kouen is going to set them straight. By maiming them.


----------



## Kellogem (Dec 15, 2014)

we will see..

but it cant be a one sided fight, and hakuryuu is not enough to have a chance against kouen. I doubt anyone is going to get raped, but if someone will be, it wont be kouen.


----------



## Darth (Dec 15, 2014)

Why would Sinbad support Hakuryuu? 

Did you not get the evil corrupt (btw he hates Judar things)? If Sinbad gets involved it'll be to crush Hakuryuu and Judar alongside Kouen. I could see Alibaba and Aladdin intervening on behalf of their former "friend" though. 

Like I said, this arc has potential.


----------



## Kellogem (Dec 15, 2014)

Darth said:


> Why would Sinbad support Hakuryuu?
> 
> Did you not get the evil corrupt (btw he hates Judar things)? If Sinbad gets involved it'll be to crush Hakuryuu and Judar alongside Kouen. I could see Alibaba and Aladdin intervening on behalf of their former "friend" though.
> 
> Like I said, this arc has potential.



for strategical reasons.. like it would give him an excuse for attacking Kou, like he is supporting the true heir so would look like the good guy in the eye of the world and also getting rid of Kou, plus with Hakuryuus and Judars help it would take less resources and its obvious the Kou Emoire is an eyesore to him.

he promised he is going to support Hakuryuu once, I think its time for him to keep that promise.. also I think it would help to establish Sindbad as an antagonist which he is going to be sooner or latter and fit his cunning personality and twisted ways.

also hakuryuu and judar would have no chance in hell in any other way.


----------



## ~VK~ (Dec 15, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Did Hakuryuu and Judar get married?



This bromance quickly transformed into something pretty gay.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Dec 15, 2014)

Man... I don't think she is dead.


----------



## Vandal Savage (Dec 16, 2014)

I look forward to Hakuryuu vs. Kouen when the time comes and what Sinbad decides to do. Even if "Gyoukuen" is dead I wouldn't put it past Arba to manage to bring that vessel back or have another one prepared for her next move. Still, I loved Judar venting out some of his frustration Hakuryuu decapitating her at the end. Excellent arc. Magi has been knocking it out of the park for me all year.


----------



## Imagine (Dec 16, 2014)

No way is she really dead. Gyouken is just too cunning to be done in like that. 

Al Tharmen will probably find a way to resurrect her if Hakuryuu actually did manage to kill her.


----------



## Rukia (Dec 16, 2014)

Darth said:


> Like I said, this arc has potential.


I don't feel that way.  I'm disappointed with the direction the manga has taken.  Hakuryuu is not that interesting to me.  I don't want him to be a major focus.  I want him to disappear into the background.


----------



## Kellogem (Dec 16, 2014)

Hakuryuu was absent for arcs, he deserves some time to shine..

I just want the metal vessel users to fight each other or a human opponent 1 on 1 already, not ganging up on some giant monster. Morgiana should kick some ass as well, and Falan should reappear.


----------



## Kellogem (Dec 16, 2014)

there is so little activity here.. like 1 pages worth of "discussion" for every chapter, most posts containing 3 lines average..

people here dont read this manga, dont like it or just dont want to discuss it or what?


----------



## Vandal Savage (Dec 16, 2014)

I'm actually expecting Falan to already be dead in the current timeline. Mainly because I expect her to be the significant Al Thamen villain alongside chibi Judar in the Sinbad Prequel and killed off near the end of it. If Falan _is_ alive in the present I'll be pleasantly surprised.



Kell?gem said:


> there is so little activity here.. like 1 pages worth of "discussion" for every chapter, most posts containing 3 lines average..
> 
> people here dont read this manga, dont like it or just dont want to discuss it or what?



This is one of my favorite series and has continued to climb my rankings but from what I see around the net, if the story isn't focused on Alibaba (who I can't stand), Mor, and company the overall fandom tends to tune shit out and complain until they are back on panel. That might contribute to it and I know a lot of other people stopped following Magi for varying reasons.


----------



## Wesley (Dec 16, 2014)

Rukia said:


> I don't feel that way.  I'm disappointed with the direction the manga has taken.  Hakuryuu is not that interesting to me.  I don't want him to be a major focus.  I want him to disappear into the background.



I think he's hilarious and his mom trolling the shit out of him every chance she gets is too much fun.


----------



## Rica_Patin (Dec 16, 2014)

Kell?gem said:


> there is so little activity here.. like 1 pages worth of "discussion" for every chapter, most posts containing 3 lines average..
> 
> people here dont read this manga, dont like it or just dont want to discuss it or what?



Back from Balbadd up until the beginning of the War arc we had tons of really in depth discussion.
People just don't care anymore because the quality has gone off the deep end, save for the rare good chapter every now and then.


----------



## LordPerucho (Dec 16, 2014)

Kell?gem said:


> there is so little activity here.. like 1 pages worth of "discussion" for every chapter, most posts containing 3 lines average..
> 
> people here dont read this manga, dont like it or just dont want to discuss it or what?



The development of the main characters.

Morg needs to show more feats.

Alibaba needs to man up already, even with his powereup he is still a bitch.

Aladdin is still one of the blandest MCs I ever seen in manga.


----------



## Palm Siberia (Dec 16, 2014)

Perhaps the anime's next season will boost popularity for the series more...


----------



## Kellogem (Dec 17, 2014)

talking about the anime, its about time for them to start working on the next season, I think there is enough material for it..


----------



## Butcher (Dec 17, 2014)

It'd just be Alma Torran arc, but I have no problem with that.

My favorite arc after all .


----------



## Rax (Dec 17, 2014)

Been boring for a while.


----------



## Ftg07 (Dec 18, 2014)

Kell?gem said:


> talking about the anime, its about time for them to start working on the next season, I think there is enough material for it..



 we're 52 chapters ahead of where the anime left off?

A-1 pictures did pretty good for S2 especially if you compare it to the S1 fuck up... but what disappointed me the most about S2 is that the animation was a let down in the last 8 or so episodes : /

Maybe the studio that's adapting the adventure of Sindbad can animate S3  I know that's not gonna happen though


----------



## Kellogem (Dec 18, 2014)

no chapter this week I guess?


----------



## crystalblade13 (Dec 20, 2014)

On the subject of inactivity here, I guess it's just not popular on this forum since the forum in General has bad taste. Go to mangahelpers forums for it. There's page after page after page of discussion for every chapter, with each post on average being like 3 paragraphs long.


----------



## Rica_Patin (Dec 20, 2014)

crystalblade13 said:


> On the subject of inactivity here, I guess it's just not popular on this forum since the forum in General has bad taste. Go to mangahelpers forums for it. There's page after page after page of discussion for every chapter, with each post on average being like 3 paragraphs long.



Mangahelpers has AWFUL taste though.
The people in the WSJ thread for example sees Naruto as one of the best manga of all time and all of the flaws people come up with are just embellished nitpicks.
Active discussion doesn't necessarily mean good taste.
Most of the people here (on this board specifically) however tend to have halfway decent taste and ignore series that are mediocre (and inb4 "HURR THIS IS A NARUTO FORUM" because pretty much everybody here hates Naruto now).


----------



## Kellogem (Dec 20, 2014)

I dont think people hate Naruto here, more like treat it like a slightly challenged and annoying little brother everyone make fun of but still love deep inside despite all his faults. ..most of us have pleasant memories of Naruto even if it became a pain in the ass the last couple of years.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Dec 20, 2014)

I can't even fathom how you think magi has sucked for like the last 3 years rica Paton. IMO it's as perfect as it's ever been. So odds are that our tastes just don't match up.


----------



## Rica_Patin (Dec 20, 2014)

crystalblade13 said:


> I can't even fathom how you think magi has sucked for like the last 3 years rica Paton. IMO it's as perfect as it's ever been. So odds are that our tastes just don't match up.



I know that due to my film tastes being patrician, my manga tastes likely are as well.
Taste is not as subjective as people make them out to be, and I know that my tastes are objectively good.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Dec 20, 2014)

But if I think magi is objectively nearly perfect, and you don't, but you have objectively good taste...then taste must be pretty objective for any of this to add up. Hmmmm


----------



## Rica_Patin (Dec 20, 2014)

crystalblade13 said:


> But if I think magi is objectively nearly perfect, and you don't, but you have objectively good taste...then taste must be pretty objective for any of this to add up. Hmmmm



Well to put it bluntly; you're wrong and probably have trouble recognizing critical faults.


----------



## Wesley (Dec 20, 2014)

I hope Aladdin sits the next arc out.


----------



## Kellogem (Dec 20, 2014)

Arent you obsessed with "bad" mangas a bit too much Nensense?

I see you talk about them more than mangas you like... why do you read them when you find them shit is also beyond me...


----------



## Rica_Patin (Dec 20, 2014)

Kell?gem said:


> Arent you obsessed with "bad" mangas a bit too much Nensense?
> 
> I see you talk about them more than mangas you like... why do you read them when you find them shit is also beyond me...



Because I have trouble dropping things if I one point really liked them.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Dec 20, 2014)

Rica_Patin said:


> Well to put it bluntly; you're wrong and probably have trouble recognizing critical faults.



Alternatively, you overexaggerate minor nitpicky miniscule details in an attempt to make yourself seem like some manga expert when theres actually close to nothing wrong. 

Whats wrong with the story? theres still consistant themes, forshadowing, and character motivations. Not to mention top notch character interaction ( judar and hakuryuu are brilliant), great action, plenty of mystery/ incentive to read ( "father", "the voice", sinbads true nature, kougyokus curse, alibabas magoi and likely second dungeon quest, exploring the rift, where alibaba, aladdin, and reim will be siding in the current war, if hakuryuu will get killed or saved, and the list goes on and on and on.

short version: Tastes ARE subjective, and my opinion is just as valid as yours. even if i HEAVILY disagree with you..


----------



## Wesley (Dec 21, 2014)

I'm not even sure what about the manga you dislike.  All I recall you ever doing in here is say that you dislike or hate it.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Dec 21, 2014)

All I've heard her say is "it's been shit since magnostadt" and that's it. Also, her myanimelist has bleach 2 points higher than magi lol. And she said my opinion sucks. 

On the note of the manga, I wonder if sinbad possessed kougyoku is gonna kill one of her siblings. It was kinda foreshadowed in the same chapter that foreshadowed haluryuu beheading gyokuen.


----------



## Kellogem (Dec 21, 2014)

crystalblade13 said:


> All I've heard her say is "it's been shit since magnostadt" and that's it. Also, her myanimelist has bleach 2 points higher than magi lol. And she said my opinion sucks.
> 
> On the note of the manga, I wonder if sinbad possessed kougyoku is gonna kill one of her siblings. It was kinda foreshadowed in the same chapter that foreshadowed haluryuu beheading gyokuen.



Nensense is a she??  I was pretty sure its a he, even have some vague memory of him putting a picture about himself into his avy or sig.

maybe she should kill the teleporting guy - I have a hard time remembering all the kous. also I wonder how Sinbad turning into an antagonist going to work out for the Seven Sea Alliance - I cant see them siding with him, since from what I saw they are good guys. or the whole thing is going to be so morally grey they can keep their position and fight the protagonists, or only the Kou Empire and Sinbad is going to discard them once things go too far..?


----------



## crystalblade13 (Dec 21, 2014)

Kell?gem said:


> Nensense is a she??  I was pretty sure its a he, even have some vague memory of him putting a picture about himself into his avy or sig.
> 
> maybe she should kill the teleporting guy - I have a hard time remembering all the kous. also I wonder how Sinbad turning into an antagonist going to work out for the Seven Sea Alliance - I cant see them siding with him, since from what I saw they are good guys. or the whole thing is going to be so morally grey they can keep their position and fight the protagonists, or only the Kou Empire and Sinbad is going to discard them once things go too far..?



If by nensense, you mean rica patin, then yes, her profile sais female. 

Teleport guy= koumei btw. I don't see sinbad killing or turning against the seven seas alliance even if they don't side with him. Unless David takes his body or something. I'm also very curious about who mu will side with. Probably Siberia but who knows. And are the magnostadt head magicians gonna side with rein too? From what I remember, reim is helping them rebuild.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 21, 2014)

Rica_Patin said:


> Well to put it bluntly; you're wrong and probably have trouble recognizing critical faults.


Nah your wrong.

Last two arcs have been good. 

Best one is still the Sinbad arc whatever you want to call it. But the arcs after have all been good.

To be honest the first major magi arc was not good aka Alibabas arc even though he is my favorite character the arc just bored me. Probably would of just dropped magi if not for the fact i dont drop manga.


----------



## Kellogem (Dec 21, 2014)

I wonder who Morgiana is going to fight with... hope not some monster.

Kougyoku vs Morgiana go go go!


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 21, 2014)

Two best girls fighting 

Im down for that.


----------



## Kellogem (Dec 21, 2014)

Morgiana would be majorly handicapped though because of Kougyokus water powers, so I guess it wouldnt work out well..

maybe Hakuei vs Morgiana?

and Kougyoku vs... uh... Sinbads mage girl? Yam something...


----------



## Stilzkin (Dec 21, 2014)

Rica_Patin said:


> I know that due to my film tastes being patrician, my manga tastes likely are as well.



That's a fairly silly conclusion to come to.

Your film tastes aren't likely to have originated in a vacuum. It wouldn't be good if they had either as judging purely on a technical level isn't correct, you have to also take into account history and culture.

Just because, for what ever reason, critics agree with the movies you like does not mean the same is true for your taste in manga. It could be the case that it shows you are able to critically evaluate works in a medium. It could also be the case that you know more about film than you know about manga, or that you have been exposed to more critical pieces about film, or that with film you have a critical consensus, unlike with manga, and you are to follow along with the consensus.


----------



## Kellogem (Dec 21, 2014)

giving D Gray-man a 3 while Shaman King a 7, thats objectively wrong..


----------



## Ftg07 (Dec 21, 2014)

Kell?gem said:


> giving D Gray-man a 3 while Shaman King a 7, thats objectively wrong..



Bleach has a 6 while Magi has a 5...DGM 3 and KHR with a score of 2 

Boku no Hero academy is like 20 chapters in yet he is putting it in the same rank as HxH

Rica you have some interesting taste in manga


----------



## Rica_Patin (Dec 21, 2014)

Ftg07 said:


> Bleach has a 6 while Magi has a 5...DGM 3 and KHR with a score of 2
> 
> Boku no Hero academy is like 20 chapters in yet he is putting it in the same rank as HxH
> 
> Rica you have some interesting taste in manga



DGM is awful.
Shaman King has nostalgic value to me, and was stellar for the at least the first half.
KHR is one of the worst things I've ever read, most people would agree with me.
BnH's rank is subject to change.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Dec 21, 2014)

So patin, now that basically everyone on here has commented on your questionable tastes, can you still say that you have some kind of perfect opinion?

back on topic again: How many people wanna bet that aladdin will raise alibabas next dungeon soon? There hasnt been a confirmation that they've all appeared has there?

I hope so, i doubt alibaba will have a chance to retreat and power up later, with how hakuryuu is now. hakuryuu will likely be going for the kill. Alibaba could always get saved, but i'd really like a close to even fight.


----------



## Rica_Patin (Dec 21, 2014)

crystalblade13 said:


> So patin, now that basically everyone on here has commented on your questionable tastes, can you still say that you have some kind of perfect opinion?
> 
> back on topic again: How many people wanna bet that aladdin will raise alibabas next dungeon soon? There hasnt been a confirmation that they've all appeared has there?
> 
> I hope so, i doubt alibaba will have a chance to retreat and power up later, with how hakuryuu is now. hakuryuu will likely be going for the kill. Alibaba could always get saved, but i'd really like a close to even fight.



Yes I can.
I don't believe that most people here are at my level.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Dec 21, 2014)

Rica_Patin said:


> Yes I can.
> I don't believe that most people here are at my level.



FUNNIEST POST EVER. I'd put you on my ignore list if your inflated ego wasnt so entertaining.


----------



## Kellogem (Dec 21, 2014)

sigh.. and here I was thinking Nensense got better, but its the same superior opinion bs...

I think one kind of power is good enough for main characters, Id rather have Alibaba master it fully than see him starting to use a set of different powers. ..maybe something to boost his fire with, like Kouens lava wouldnt hurt..

hakuryuu didnt really have a power boost he can use in battle, his second metal vessel is mostly good for strategic purposes but I cant see him using it in the middle of a fight, and he havent improved Zagans abilities much from what we saw. He have to be much stronger than Alibaba to beat him with the fire vs organic shit disadvantage.

I think they should be around the same level if we ignore the elemental advantage / disadvantage.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Dec 22, 2014)

Kell?gem said:


> sigh.. and here I was thinking Nensense got better, but its the same superior opinion bs...
> 
> I think one kind of power is good enough for main characters, Id rather have Alibaba master it fully than see him starting to use a set of different powers. ..maybe something to boost his fire with, like Kouens lava wouldnt hurt..
> 
> ...



Im not so sure about that. for one, hakuryuu has the mass amount of black rukh that he and judar stole from the medium. secondly, beliel will have to have some sort of full equip power. sinbads zepar is battle ready after all. Also his physical skills are above alibabas too i think, and since judar (who is way stronger than aladdin right now, btw) can nullify magic, that puts alibaba at a disadvantage.

secondly, ohtaka has stated that alibabas magoi has fused with cassims and increased, so i see no other reason for him to have more magoi if not for a second djinn. especially if he can do some kinda never before djinn equip fusion thanks to cassims magoi being different from his or something. 

I was also thinking it'd be cool if his second djinn was fog based or something. ohtaka could go on to explain that magic tools (like the fogblades) are like super weakened djinn power containers or something if she wanted. Alibaba could stop there movements with fog like cassim or create illusions... who knows but it would be cool to me.


----------



## darkcrysis11 (Dec 22, 2014)

Pretty good. Has potential.


----------



## belkrax (Dec 25, 2014)

Just stopping by to tell everybody 251 raws are out


----------



## Special Agent Sugar (Dec 25, 2014)

is this series any good & worth taking the time to read? i've been thinking about starting it for a while now, but just not sure.


----------



## ~VK~ (Dec 25, 2014)

Special Agent Sugar said:


> is this series any good & worth taking the time to read? i've been thinking about starting it for a while now, but just not sure.



Yep, It's very much worth your time.


----------



## Special Agent Sugar (Dec 25, 2014)

Vongola King said:


> Yep, It's very much worth your time.



ok, thanks for the response. 1 thing that made me wonder is that i've looked at some of the comments from the last few pages & have seen people complaining about & saying the the series has beening kind of boring & moving slow for a while now, but i think i'll give it a try.


----------



## Kellogem (Dec 25, 2014)

its mostly Rica Patin, though some people didnt like the previous Alma Toran arc, or maybe even Magnostadt much I think its safe to assume shit is about to get real.


----------



## ~VK~ (Dec 25, 2014)

Kell?gem said:


> its mostly Rica Patin, though some people didnt like the previous Alma Toran arc, or maybe even Magnostadt much I think its safe to assume shit is about to get real.



I kinda get alma toran even though I personally liked it, but magnostadt? I thought that was an awesome arc.


----------



## Rica_Patin (Dec 25, 2014)

Kell?gem said:


> its mostly Rica Patin, though some people didnt like the previous Alma Toran arc, or maybe even Magnostadt much I think its safe to assume shit is about to get real.



People have a problem with the post Magnostadt WAR arc, not the Magnostadt (Hogwarts) arc which is probably the fan favorite of the whole series.

Also, it's not just me who doesn't like the series anymore, I'm just the most vocal.


----------



## Kellogem (Dec 26, 2014)

Rica_Patin said:


> Also, it's not just me who doesn't like the series anymore, I'm just the most vocal.



thats the point since he was talking about comments..

also whats the problem with the war arc besides the kind of cheap ending? I thought the war itself until the point Aladdin wiped the army away with the sand was awesome with everything you want from a war.

the medium thing should be considered a different arc if we are already taking apart the hogwarts and war arc.


----------



## Rukia (Dec 26, 2014)

Magi hasn't been that great lately.


----------



## Kellogem (Dec 26, 2014)

is cleaning it such a big job though? I mean looking at the Chinese scans, they are clean enough.. just someone translating it and putting the text into the bubbles would be good enough for me..


----------



## crystalblade13 (Dec 26, 2014)

Rukia said:


> Magi hasn't been that great lately.



I stand corrected.  2 people. 

Although I honestly think your both crazy. The series is fantastic right now IMO.

And kellogem, I agree that just words would be fine by me too regarding upcoming chapters. But maybe sense doesn't think so. Beats me.


----------



## LordPerucho (Dec 28, 2014)

This is the result of Yahweh getting his sword blocked.

The TNJ is gonna fail so badly.


----------



## Wesley (Dec 28, 2014)

TNJ worked at the summit though!  It totally did!  Even though nothing was resolved or agreed upon.  En was actually walking away from the Summit when Judar dropped his bombshell and tried to drown them all.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Dec 28, 2014)

I really enjoyed this chapter. I can't wait for the next one.


----------



## Palm Siberia (Dec 28, 2014)

Hey don't be so mean just be happy Mr.Emperor and talk with us


----------



## Vandal Savage (Dec 28, 2014)

Really liked this chapter and I've been looking forward to this meet-up between Aladdin, Alibaba and Hakuryuu. I can't wait for Hakuryuu to laugh them both out of his throne room. 

Also lol @ Judar's reactions in this chapter. That guy never fails to entertain. 



Wesley said:


> TNJ worked at the summit though!  It totally did!  Even though nothing was resolved or agreed upon.  En was actually walking away from the Summit when Judar dropped his bombshell and tried to drown them all.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Dec 28, 2014)

I was never on forums for magi during the black djinn/medium section of the war. Why did people complain again? I thought the action was cool and served as a good first showing for the kou characters, kou has past was great, the djinn equip designs were epic, mogamett was STILL the best character in the series (and BS on any who sais Aladdin tnj'd him, he was simply brought back to his senses because the the countless fallen souls he created repeatedly mentally tortured him. Aladdin just showed up to give yam some closure. So yeah, even though I can see why people might prefer the wars first half, what was the issue some had with it?


----------



## ensoriki (Dec 28, 2014)

I dont want TNJ. I knew Haku has flown off the radar, but I hope the relationship between him and Alibaba doesn't instantly dissolve but rather a slow burn. I can't take too many knee jerks before I lose interest.


----------



## Wesley (Dec 28, 2014)

ensoriki said:


> I dont want TNJ. I knew Haku has flown off the radar, but I hope the relationship between him and Alibaba doesn't instantly dissolve but rather a slow burn. I can't take too many knee jerks before I lose interest.



We already know what Hakuryuu thinks of Alibaba.  Honestly, they weren't ever friends.  If they were, it was one-sided.  I expect Hakuryuu to hear them out until he gets bored and attacks them.


----------



## ensoriki (Dec 28, 2014)

Wesley said:


> We already know what Hakuryuu thinks of Alibaba.  Honestly, they weren't ever friends.  If they were, it was one-sided.  I expect Hakuryuu to hear them out until he gets bored and attacks them.



Im not talking about friendship and if Haku wants to bring the wood we gonna bring the ph1r3


----------



## crystalblade13 (Dec 29, 2014)

Wesley said:


> We already know what Hakuryuu thinks of Alibaba.  Honestly, they weren't ever friends.  If they were, it was one-sided.  I expect Hakuryuu to hear them out until he gets bored and attacks them.



What!? Yes they were. If they weren't then hakuryuu wouldn't have flashbacks about alibaba, constantly call him alibaba dono, or wouldn't have apologized to team zagan in his head after obtaining the mediums rukh. 

I think it's safe to say that before he turned crazy, he saw alibaba as naive, because alibaba at that time was content following sinbad, but he still valued him as a friend.


----------



## Special Agent Sugar (Dec 29, 2014)

so i've read the 1st 160 chapters so far (gonna try & get to at least 200 by the end of the day) & am really enjoying it so far, i guess i haven't quite come to whatever the slow/boring stuff is yet.


----------



## Kellogem (Dec 29, 2014)

crystalblade13 said:


> I was never on forums for magi during the black djinn/medium section of the war. Why did people complain again? I thought the action was cool and served as a good first showing for the kou characters, kou has past was great, the djinn equip designs were epic, mogamett was STILL the best character in the series (and BS on any who sais Aladdin tnj'd him, he was simply brought back to his senses because the the countless fallen souls he created repeatedly mentally tortured him. Aladdin just showed up to give yam some closure. So yeah, even though I can see why people might prefer the wars first half, what was the issue some had with it?



I found it a bit repetitive and longer than necessary...

everyone doing a flashy attack which doesnt do shit, medium regenerating, they do more flashy team attacks, medium regenerating and getting bigger - repeat. in the end I felt like the only purpose of the battle was to make everyone look cool while not achieving anything. plus Im not a fan of fights between characters and mindless monsters. I would have preferred more time spent on the war and 1 vs 1 fights.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Dec 29, 2014)

Kell?gem said:


> I found it a bit repetitive and longer than necessary...
> 
> everyone doing a flashy attack which doesnt do shit, medium regenerating, they do more flashy team attacks, medium regenerating and getting bigger - repeat. in the end I felt like the only purpose of the battle was to make everyone look cool while not achieving anything. plus Im not a fan of fights between characters and mindless monsters. I would have preferred more time spent on the war and 1 vs 1 fights.



Ah, I guess some of that could be attributed to me marathoning that section and not having to wait week by week. The battle was quite long. 

I think shinobu should continue to do fights with a similar format to gyokuen vs. hakuryuu. Great length. Perfect pacing. Nice balance of magic and up close and personal fighting, as well as a pretty epic ending.


----------



## Rica_Patin (Dec 30, 2014)

Kell?gem said:


> thats the point since he was talking about comments..
> 
> also whats the problem with the war arc besides the kind of cheap ending? I thought the war itself until the point Aladdin wiped the army away with the sand was awesome with everything you want from a war.
> 
> the medium thing should be considered a different arc if we are already taking apart the hogwarts and war arc.



Aladdins TNJ and wiping the enemies away with the sand.
The Medium battle.
The repetition and reuse of panels (which is a problem with the series in general).
Ohtaka's inability to draw compelling action scenes.
Focus on mindless fighting rather than characters.


----------



## Kellogem (Dec 30, 2014)

Rica_Patin said:


> Aladdins TNJ and wiping the enemies away with the sand.
> The Medium battle.
> The repetition and reuse of panels (which is a problem with the series in general).
> Ohtaka's inability to draw compelling action scenes.
> Focus on mindless fighting rather than characters.



so basically the ending from the point Aladdin wiped them away with sand..

also Aladdin didnt TNJ the enemy iirc, they lost their will to fight cause they were pushed back to the starting point, and Mu was running out of magoi as well.

I agree the second half of the war arc was kind of weak and wasnt what I was hoping for but you cant accuse Alma Toran or Hakuryuu arc so far having mindless fighting and no character development.


----------



## ensoriki (Dec 30, 2014)

Ohtaka should kill off Aladdin.


/amancandream


----------



## Wesley (Dec 31, 2014)

Kell?gem said:


> also Aladdin didnt TNJ the enemy iirc



He did.  He lectured Scherazade about the finer points of being a Magi, and she abandoned the war completely despite Aladdin not promising to actually do anything to fix the situation.  I mean, I can think of half a dozen arguments that Scherazade could have made that would have really put Aladdin on the spot and frankly condemn him for his actions, but she didn't do anything like that.

The war arc was fantastic right up until Alibaba saved Aladdin's life.  After that the manga was basically horrible for the next 20 weeks.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Dec 31, 2014)

not true at all. mogamet was still doing stuff during parts of it and mogamett=quality.

and before anyone sais it, NO he wasnt tnj'd by aladdin. he rethought things on his own, with a little influence from titus and the people he killed.

and did you guys REALLY have no interest in the cool djinn powers like komei's and kouen?


----------



## Kellogem (Dec 31, 2014)

..have to admit I dont really pay attention to half the stuff Aladdin is saying.



crystalblade13 said:


> and did you guys REALLY have no interest in the cool djinn powers like komei's and kouen?



they would have a bigger impact if used on someone like Sinbad instead of a huge doll with another dozen of powers used before and after.


----------



## Wesley (Dec 31, 2014)

crystalblade13 said:


> not true at all. mogamet was still doing stuff during parts of it and mogamett=quality.



He'd be even better if there were a single character in the series that understood how full of it he was.



> and before anyone sais it, NO he wasnt tnj'd by aladdin. he rethought things on his own, with a little influence from titus and the people he killed.



Aladdin TNJ'd Scherazade.  That's undeniable.



> and did you guys REALLY have no interest in the cool djinn powers like komei's and kouen?



It was alright.  Thing is there was no sense of drama or conflict outside of "We're getting our asses kicked!"  Watching people lose for 10+ weeks straight only for Sinbad to show up and steal all the credit sucked.


----------



## ensoriki (Dec 31, 2014)

Kell?gem said:


> ..have to admit I dont really pay attention to half the stuff Aladdin is saying.


Lol this 

I keep forgetting Mogamett, until someone brings him up. He wasn't even a minor character but well seems he'll fizzle out like an early game boss fight.

Lets be real the Characters of this thing are Alibaba, Hakuryuu, Mor, Sinbad, Judar, Kouen, Gyokuen.
Everyone else comes off as background noise to set the scene. Where the other finalists are fan service for your finalist dose because of Mor often not even being in the manga. Eg. Mu and ummm the guy with Sinbad.

Kouens brothers? Dick riders. 
Hakuryuu's sister? Has she done anything other then appear at the summit to say "Hi im alive" since we left her in the plains? I do not believe so, girl is background.

The water djinn daughter of a whore. Much power, such background. A real shame. Feels like Ohtaka is wasting her.

Alibaba's brothers and his friends in the fog troupe? LEGIT background. We saw those guys in balbadd for a minute and then we bounced out. It's fine though they served their purpose but they aren't players.

Then we have Aladdin. The character whose dialogue gets sped-read through like you are reading a Bleach chapter centered around Chad.

The conflict is most interesting when its situated around the Kings candidates and their development. It is unfortunate that some of those candidates are just Dick riders and background noise. They shouldn't be but oh well. The general magicians had an arc but they've already been pushed out. "They'll come back later" to do what exactly....

I want to see more of the various Kings households including Mor who is underrepresented and for some of the female kings Candidates to step up to the plate.

Sadly Tidus, Yunan and Aladdin are kind of well empty? Yunans very low-key so he can't overstay his welcome anyways since he can't offer much with how he is. I don't know what she's planning with Tidus, and Aladdin needs to get some of event to really drive him. I think this might be it though since if Hakuryuu and Judar really separate themselves here it might be the step needed to bring to start moving his character forward.

Granted Alibaba seems to be growing at a snails pace and his altruistic behaviour can only go so far before he needs to make a decision. He can't keep saying "I will take it in the ass if it will help Balbadd".


----------



## Special Agent Sugar (Dec 31, 2014)

when will the raw for 252 be out?


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## crystalblade13 (Jan 2, 2015)

ensoriki said:


> Lol this
> 
> I keep forgetting Mogamett, until someone brings him up. He wasn't even a minor character but well seems he'll fizzle out like an early game boss fight.


You have no soul if you forgot the epicness of his speeches and the terrible shit he went through. I fucking cried.

The guys one of the most influential characters in the series. His knowledge is still being utilized even after his death in the current story. Hell, he is the reason for one of aladdins current goals: to change the black flow back into white,

Magnostadt was lurking in the backround of the story for a long time. Dunya's story. Yamraiha's hometown. Every time you saw a low life with a magical tool, it was cuz of the place. And not to mention, it served as a starting point for the racial inequality theme of the alma torran arc.


----------



## Wesley (Jan 2, 2015)

crystalblade13 said:


> You have no soul if you forgot the epicness of his speeches and the terrible shit he went through. I fucking cried.



Yes, very sad, except when you realize that the magicians weren't treated any differently from anyone else and he intentionally antagonized the king through his behavior.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Jan 2, 2015)

Wesley said:


> Yes, very sad, except when you realize that the magicians weren't treated any differently from anyone else and he intentionally antagonized the king through his behavior.



Ok, before I go into a huge counter argument spree, would you explain how they weren't treated differently in your opinion?


----------



## Wesley (Jan 2, 2015)

crystalblade13 said:


> Ok, before I go into a huge counter argument spree, would you explain how they weren't treated differently in your opinion?



A king orders his subjects around.  Being used as living shields isn't really different from being drafted into the army.  Originally magicians were granted noble status, but their popularity was threatening to the king.  Their magic was incidental.  Their popularity was the problem.


----------



## ensoriki (Jan 2, 2015)

crystalblade13 said:


> You have no soul if you forgot the epicness of his speeches and the terrible shit he went through. *I fucking cried*.
> 
> The guys one of the most influential characters in the series. His knowledge is still being utilized even after his death in the current story. Hell, he is the reason for one of aladdins current goals: to change the black flow back into white,
> 
> Magnostadt was lurking in the backround of the story for a long time. Dunya's story. Yamraiha's hometown. Every time you saw a low life with a magical tool, it was cuz of the place. And not to mention, it served as a starting point for the racial inequality theme of the alma torran arc.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Jan 2, 2015)

Just letting you know bro, that image format is too big I'm pretty sure. Might wanna downsize it.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Jan 2, 2015)

Wesley said:


> A king orders his subjects around.  Being used as living shields isn't really different from being drafted into the army.  Originally magicians were granted noble status, but their popularity was threatening to the king.  Their magic was incidental.  Their popularity was the problem.



The king ordering the magicians was different though, cause even though their ability to use magic back then was really poor, they were still forced at spearpoint to use magic, which killed many, including mogametts wife. About the war. Your literally saying that forcefully making civilians walk in front of spears for soldiers is the same as signing up for war, going through training, and willingly fighting. There was no indication that the soldiers were drafted. And so what if the popularity was the problem? they were still descriminated against as a group, because of being in the class "magician". The nobles used their magic as an excuse for every twisted thing they did to them. Which IS unfair treatment.

And about mogamett specifically, he literally walked to the palace right after his daughter died in his arms, only to hear the nobles circlejerking while laughing about how easy it is to manipulate the "species" known as magicians. thats fucked up. And finally, It really does seem like most magicians do value knowledge over all else, seeing as no one in the classroom denied it, so i can see how he develope his mindset. Easily.


----------



## ensoriki (Jan 2, 2015)

crystalblade13 said:


> Just letting you know bro, that image format is too big I'm pretty sure. Might wanna downsize it.



If I found an even bigger baby I would have used it.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Jan 3, 2015)

ensoriki said:


> If I found an even bigger baby I would have used it.



Thats nice and all, but dont blame me if you get banned. I'd at least put it in spoilers if i were you.


----------



## Wesley (Jan 3, 2015)

crystalblade13 said:


> The king ordering the magicians was different though, cause even though their ability to use magic back then was really poor, they were still forced at spearpoint to use magic, which killed many, including mogametts wife.



The choice was either people starve to death from the drought or the magicians risking their lives to make it rain.



> About the war. Your literally saying that forcefully making civilians walk in front of spears for soldiers is the same as signing up for war, going through training, and willingly fighting. There was no indication that the soldiers were drafted. And so what if the popularity was the problem? they were still descriminated against as a group, because of being in the class "magician". The nobles used their magic as an excuse for every twisted thing they did to them. Which IS unfair treatment.



Everyone is subject to the draft during a time of war.  Especially in feudal societies.  And the point is anyone that was so popular that they could conceivably start a revolution would have been subjected to discrimination.  You ever read or watch Macbeth?  Popular war hero usurps the throne.  They were afraid of the magicians, that they'd start a revolution, which is ultimately exactly what they did.



> And about mogamett specifically, he literally walked to the palace right after his daughter died in his arms, only to hear the nobles circlejerking while laughing about how easy it is to manipulate the "species" known as magicians. thats fucked up. And finally, It really does seem like most magicians do value knowledge over all else, seeing as no one in the classroom denied it, so i can see how he develope his mindset. Easily.



They were a bunch of kids.  The only one that tried to argue was Titus, but even he was only half-assed about it.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Jan 3, 2015)

Wesley said:


> The choice was either people starve to death from the drought or the magicians risking their lives to make it rain.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The magicians were willing to help. They forced the weak ones to do magic even at their limit pretty much cause they  were assholes.

IRL, yes, but who knows in the magiverse. And once again, discrimination is discrimination. Regardless of the cause, the magicians were still forced to endur it . And the y were popular because they were magicians. Also, mogamett only  started a revolution after the continual bullshit the royals put him the the other magicians through. 

The kids still know other magicians, and they still didn't think what he said was inaccurate.


----------



## Rokudaime (Jan 3, 2015)

Rukia said:


> Magi hasn't been that great lately.



Indeed. It is just so-so series. Not a series that I will eagerly wait for the new chapter come out.


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## crystalblade13 (Jan 3, 2015)

It's >>> every other shonen right now.  Better world building, characterization, art (IMO),  and pacing than pretty much all of the big name other shonen. Not to mention that it has lots of good morally grey area's, cool politics, and a great theme.


----------



## Rokudaime (Jan 3, 2015)

crystalblade13 said:


> *It's >>> every other shonen right now.  *Better world building, characterization, art (IMO),  and pacing than pretty much all of the big name other shonen. Not to mention that it has lots of good morally grey area's, cool politics, and a great theme.



Yeah, according to you to you only. Sorry for not sharing the same opinion as yo-oh wait.


----------



## ensoriki (Jan 4, 2015)

crystalblade13 said:


> It's >>> every other shonen right now.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Jan 4, 2015)

Hey, didn't say you had to agree. Just stating my reasons for why I think so. Feel free to share your own favorites and your reasons for thinking so. I can just post that same gif at your opinion and it would continue serving pretty much no purpose. Discuss your opinions or post silly gifs. Whatever floats your boat.


----------



## Kellogem (Jan 4, 2015)

out of the 4 shounens I currently read - Bleach, Magi, Nanatsu no Taizai and Tokyo Ghoul - Magi is definitely better than Bleach and I prefer it over NnT and maybe even TG as well.. and Im pretty sure its much better than FT even without reading the latter.


----------



## Wesley (Jan 4, 2015)

I began reading Magi because I quit Fairy Tail.  Even as disappointed as I am with how some things turned out, Magi at least has story progression and character development.


----------



## Vandal Savage (Jan 4, 2015)

Magi is pretty high on my list of current Shounen even with some things I could nitpick here and there throughout its run. Even so, I don't think its in a tier by itself. Its better than dreck like Bleach and Fairy Tail obviously but other series are still comparable to it.


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## crystalblade13 (Jan 4, 2015)

Im caught up to and reading 

Tokyo ghoul: my current second fave. I prefer magi, but I don't think it's glaringly superior.
Toriko: awesome, but IMO, inferior to magi in many ways
Terraformars: great. But hard to follow sometimes and can get boring occasionally.

Catching up on: 
kingdom: not very far, but it has lots of potential
Kamisama no iutoori: getting ready to start part 2. Fucked up, and I wish the characters got to develop more. Still good.
Bleach: ehh... I'm reading it, but it's coming along slow cause it bores me some.

Getting and reading the English volumes as their released:
Soul eater: just finished vol 23, it's amazing. One of my faves.
Claymore. On volume 25: kinda meh, but can be emotional.
Nanatsu no Taizai: awesome, reading it in pace with the anime
Parasite: awesome, reading it in pace with the anime.

And I'm watching some anime too, but yeah, magi remains my favorite out of these all.


----------



## Rukia (Jan 4, 2015)

Wesley said:


> I began reading Magi because I quit Fairy Tail.  Even as disappointed as I am with how some things turned out, Magi at least has story progression and character development.


Good point.  Even at it's worst; Magi is giving us loads more than Fairy Tail.


----------



## ensoriki (Jan 5, 2015)

Mentioning Fairy Tail isn't a bannable offense yet?


----------



## crystalblade13 (Jan 5, 2015)

crystalblade13 said:


> Im caught up to and reading
> 
> Tokyo ghoul: my current second fave. I prefer magi, but I don't think it's glaringly superior.
> Toriko: awesome, but IMO, inferior to magi in many ways
> ...



Edit: I somehow forgot SNK and berserk. Probably cause they're monthly. I've enjoyed AOT recently, pretty good. Berserk needs to pick the fuck up. There's so little progression, it's sad. Miyura's recent gigantomakia was full of epicness. So I don't know what his problem is.


----------



## Rica_Patin (Jan 5, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> out of the 4 shounens I currently read - Bleach, Magi, Nanatsu no Taizai and Tokyo Ghoul - Magi is definitely better than Bleach and I prefer it over NnT and maybe even TG as well.. and Im pretty sure its much better than FT even without reading the latter.



Tokyo Ghoul runs in Weekly Young Jump; a seinen magazine.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Jan 5, 2015)

Wait a second. I see a lot of series with sub section.... So why Magi doesn't have one? the fuck is going on?


----------



## Kellogem (Jan 6, 2015)

Malvingt2 said:


> Wait a second. I see a lot of series with sub section.... So why Magi doesn't have one? the fuck is going on?



not popular enough I guess even thought imo it would deserve to have one considering its quality but with 1-2 pages of discussion between chapters, its unnecessary.


----------



## Vandal Savage (Jan 6, 2015)

Malvingt2 said:


> Wait a second. I see a lot of series with sub section.... So why Magi doesn't have one? the fuck is going on?



The series is read by a lot of people but the actual discussion in this thread isn't at a high enough pace to convince enough staff to give Magi its own sub-section.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Jan 6, 2015)

LordPerucho said:


> source
> 
> I didnt know Ohtaka was a woman.



Yup. I just REALLY wanna see a real picture of her. Her chibi is adorable.


----------



## Kellogem (Jan 6, 2015)

I wonder who are her favorite characters she was talking about how she has trouble writing fights with cause she doesnt want to make them lose..

also with sub-section we could have polls, like favorite metal vessel user, djinn equip..etc. it would be nice.


----------



## Palm Siberia (Jan 6, 2015)

Sorry needs more boobs and ass before it can be popular enough for a section ala Fairy Tail


----------



## Black Knight (Jan 7, 2015)

Link removed


*Spoiler*: __ 



Get out Alibaba, get out of there FAST!


----------



## ensoriki (Jan 7, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Don't leave. Stand your ground until you develop your conviction Alibaba...then you are free to leave. Don't let Ohtaka make you a bitch again.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jan 7, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Time for Alibaba to get his ass beat.


----------



## Vandal Savage (Jan 7, 2015)

Palm Siberia said:


> Sorry needs more boobs and ass before it can be popular enough for a section ala Fairy Tail



Thankfully, Ohtaka isn't that shameless. 



Black Knight said:


> Link removed
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



So...Aladdin should already know by one look (thanks to the rukh) that Hakuryuu has fallen into depravity right? I sure hope that is what he is talking to Judar about.

Well, those negotiations broke down pretty fast. Looks like Hakuryuu might be calling Alibaba out on some of his shit and started using Belilial to fuck with him. Fall back Alibaba, you better find your balls (and more power) before you seriously face off with Hakuryuu.


----------



## ensoriki (Jan 8, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Really want this arc to be where Alibaba gains some level of individual conviction and stops simply castrating himself for Balbaad. Man doesn't even have to have all the answers just friggen decide he's not happy and he wants to do something instead of letting people push him


----------



## Kellogem (Jan 8, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



dont see Alibaba running away now or winning, so I guess he is going to get beaten up until someone saves him or hakuryuu just decides to spare him for whatever reason... Im glad things are going to get ugly first, its going to make their final confrontation more satisfying.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Jan 8, 2015)

Plot twist, alibaba gets Belialed and has to fight against Aladdin and the rest of the world. That'd be pretty intense.


----------



## Ftg07 (Jan 8, 2015)

Alibaba


----------



## The World (Jan 8, 2015)

I liked Hakyruu's sub plot

he is the Sauce of this series except he actually succeeded  

well until Ren Gyouken reincarnates again


----------



## The World (Jan 8, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> I found it a bit repetitive and longer than necessary...
> 
> everyone doing a flashy attack which doesnt do shit, medium regenerating, they do more flashy team attacks, medium regenerating and getting bigger - repeat. in the end I felt like the only purpose of the battle was to make everyone look cool while not achieving anything. plus Im not a fan of fights between characters and mindless monsters. I would have preferred more time spent on the war and 1 vs 1 fights.



In the anime it was pretty dope

and who actually reads this on weekly basis?

I just wait a month or two and read it in bulk 

much better that way


----------



## Gunners (Jan 8, 2015)

Alibaba has got this.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Jan 8, 2015)

So I wonder if Aladdin vs judar will start next chapter as well. Aladdin needs to break in his new staff before the war starts.


----------



## Palm Siberia (Jan 8, 2015)

The World said:


> I liked Hakyruu's sub plot
> 
> he is the Sauce of this series except he actually succeeded
> 
> well until Ren Gyouken reincarnates again



Villains can't regenerate they are honorable and stay die forever that's why they are evil


----------



## Catalyst75 (Jan 9, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> I found it a bit repetitive and longer than necessary...
> 
> everyone doing a flashy attack which doesnt do shit, medium regenerating, they do more flashy team attacks, medium regenerating and getting bigger - repeat. in the end I felt like the only purpose of the battle was to make everyone look cool while not achieving anything. plus Im not a fan of fights between characters and mindless monsters. I would have preferred more time spent on the war and 1 vs 1 fights.



It was meant to show just how dangerous the Medium was.  Even when a grand total of 13 Djinn users combined their power together in Extreme Magic, it still put itself back together afterwards.


----------



## Kellogem (Jan 9, 2015)

Catalyst75 said:


> It was meant to show just how dangerous the Medium was.  Even when a grand total of 13 Djinn users combined their power together in Extreme Magic, it still put itself back together afterwards.



it was a bit too long just to show how dangerous it was... it could have been done in 2 chapters the medium owning everyone or even off screen with the reader seeing only the aftermath, and with one team attack and regenerating from that, it was unnecessary to repeat the same process multiple times to get the point across..

it was supposed to be a huge climatic battle everyone showing what they had in an epic struggle but was too soulless and repetitive for my taste.

btw I read it at once as well, and still found it boring. not a big deal as it wasnt pissing me off waiting for weeks but still can see the issue.

hope this new arc we are going to get 1 on 1 fights..


----------



## crystalblade13 (Jan 9, 2015)

If the fights are anything like hakuryuu vs gyokuen than I'll be happy. That shit was epic.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Jan 15, 2015)

Alibaba made a mistake.... he has to fight now... right?


----------



## LordPerucho (Jan 15, 2015)

What Hakuryuu said more a lot of sense, if Alibaba runs away it will make him look like a complete pussy.


----------



## Darth (Jan 15, 2015)

welp, Hakuryuu's gone batshit insane. I don't see a redemption story for him. I hope we get some more focus on his sister in the story, cause it would be pretty cool to see the sibling rivalry.


----------



## Kellogem (Jan 15, 2015)

lol, so Hakuryuu is so mad cause Alibaba tried to reason with him and touched some subjects he didnt want him to for the sake of making a point?

Alibaba has as much right to be mad cause Hakuryuu mentioned Balbad.

its like lets talk about our goals, but if you mention anyone precious to me Im going to make you look like some heartless manipulator.


----------



## Gunners (Jan 15, 2015)

I'm reminded of the Wayne Brady skit.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jan 15, 2015)

Time for your ass kicking Alibaba.


----------



## Vandal Savage (Jan 15, 2015)

I'm glad Hakuryuu saw through Alibaba's bullshit and called him out on it. Time and again, he has been disappointed with how Alibaba deals with real life issues and I agree with his analysis of his character. Hakuryuu offered him the chance to get his country back and made the same fucking point as Sinbad in terms of the Kouen-Al Thamen relationship and why it can't be ignored. So rather than address the point that keeps getting brought up by his peers (or superiors currently) Alibaba tries to use Hakuei as a scapegoat to get what he wants and dissuade Hakuryuu. Once again running away from the main point that the dude that is occupying your country is going to let Al Thamen run rampant just so he can get what he wants. You don't think he would let them back into Balbadd again if it benefited him?

Sinbad, Kouen, and now Hakuryuu have owned him in debates while he just stands there not knowing what to do. Alibaba is about to get an ass kicking and I hope it makes him get his shit together regarding Balbadd, Kouen, Al Thamen, and just what it means to be a King Vessel.


----------



## Palm Siberia (Jan 15, 2015)

Full Sasuke mode time for the talk no jutsu


----------



## Kellogem (Jan 15, 2015)

things are a bit more difficult for Alibaba as he actually gives a shit about his people and friends, so I think its understandable for him to trying to find an easy way... Hakuryuu offered him a burned up Balbadd with a lot of causalities, I dont think its Alibabas fault he doesnt find it an option.

its more easy for Hakuryuu to do things radically as at this point he would sacrifice about anyone.



> and just what it means to be a King Vessel.



but what it means to be a King Vessel? isnt it trying to protect your people?

Alibaba is between rock and a hard place, its not like there is an obvious right decision.


----------



## Vandal Savage (Jan 15, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> but what it means to be a King Vessel? isnt it trying to protect your people?
> 
> Alibaba is between rock and a hard place, its not like there is an obvious right decision.



His people are one step above slavery under Kouen's rule and are a colony of the empire (before Hakuryuu's rebellion) that is trying to end the world entirely. Alibaba is kicking the can down the road by being a willing puppet but it still ends with Al Thamen winning because his puppet master won't bite the hand that feeds him.

This is going to be up to interpretation obviously, but actually _leading_ your country for starters and realizing hard choices and sacrifices are inevitable to protect the people and secure long-term safety/prosperity. 

Alibaba thinks he can keep punting on the hard choices every time someone else pins him down in debate but that is a reality he isn't going to be able to run away from. Solomon, Sinbad, and Hakuryuu couldn't and Alibaba (unless he gets the MC pass just cause) likely can't either. There may or may not be a right answer but Alibaba doesn't even _have_ an answer to begin with. His default decision is to maintain the status quo that someone else is setting for him while hoping he can make the temperature of the pot his people are cooking in _slightly_ less warm than it currently is.


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## Quuon (Jan 15, 2015)

It's time for Alibaba to nut up or shut up.


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## Kellogem (Jan 15, 2015)

Jetstorm said:


> His people are one step above slavery under Kouen's rule and are a colony of the empire (before Hakuryuu's rebellion) that is trying to end the world entirely. Alibaba is kicking the can down the road by being a willing puppet but it still ends with Al Thamen winning because his puppet master won't bite the hand that feeds him.
> 
> This is going to be up to interpretation obviously, but actually _leading_ your country for starters and realizing hard choices and sacrifices are inevitable to protect the people and secure long-term safety/prosperity.
> 
> Alibaba thinks he can keep punting on the hard choices every time someone else pins him down in debate but that is a reality he isn't going to be able to run away from. Solomon, Sinbad, and Hakuryuu couldn't and Alibaba (unless he gets the MC pass just cause) likely can't either. There may or may not be a right answer but Alibaba doesn't even _have_ an answer to begin with. His default decision is to maintain the status quo that someone else is setting for him while hoping he can make the temperature of the pot his people are cooking in _slightly_ less warm than it currently is.



they still have an objective, Al Thamen and preventing them from summoning Il Ilah which is easier to comprehend, I cant blame him for prioritizing that... trying to talk everyone into an alliance and maybe further down the road he could have a chance to bargain with Kouen/ earn his trust and back stab him / threaten him / marry into his family and get Balbadd or just lucky enough so Kouen would die and his successor would be easier to negotiate with.

I get it people are tired of indecisive Alibaba, but just doing something stupid for the hell of it is not the answer..

lets see he would join forces with Hakuryuu - what are the chances of him, Hakuryuu and Judar liberating Balbadd (Aladdin would leave them after trying to persuade Alibaba) and beating the Kou empire out of its territory? I'd say pretty slim.. even if it would happen, I wonder how much would left from Balbadd.. and trusting a nutcase like Hakuryuu still bent on revenge is not a good idea either.

Alibaba should have a clear answer once the time comes and stop being indecisive but it isnt yet, this road would only led to destruction.

he should try to get some strong and reliable allies, judar and hakuryuu are definitely not reliable (and not that strong compared to kou either).


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## Cocidius (Jan 15, 2015)

Alibaba is a pretty weak character. Probably the worst part of Magi actually. Glad someone is calling that trope out in a manga finally. Can't wait to see the beat down he is about to receive. Although I can't see Hakuryuu taking on Kou at the moment because his lack of metal vessel users. I think in the end he will end up killing them. He's a man of his word after all. 

A real twist would be Alibaba dying and seeing how Aladdin will deal with it. Haven't been disappointed in Magi yet so I have faith it will continue to be great. 

Now imagine if Naruto had this amount of rich character development. How much better that story would have been.


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## Rai (Jan 15, 2015)

Next chapter is gonna be good.


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## Santí (Jan 15, 2015)

Let's not imagine that, actually.

It would only rub salt on the wounds of wasted potential.


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## ensoriki (Jan 15, 2015)

Cocidius said:


> Alibaba is a pretty weak character. Probably the worst part of Magi actually. Glad someone is calling that trope out in a manga finally. Can't wait to see the beat down he is about to receive. Although I can't see Hakuryuu taking on Kou at the moment because his lack of metal vessel users. I think in the end he will end up killing them. He's a man of his word after all.
> 
> A real twist would be Alibaba dying and seeing how Aladdin will deal with it. Haven't been disappointed in Magi yet so I have faith it will continue to be great.
> 
> Now imagine if Naruto had this amount of rich character development. How much better that story would have been.



Aladdin is the worst character in Magi.

I've been saying continously. Alibaba needs to develop his convictions. I thought maybe The Dark spot would do it, maybe alma toran arc. It seems like it spurned him on a bit but he's still prostrating himself to whomever if it helps Balbaad. Even still before Balbaad, he was running and we know he was running away. He's scared of the real responsibility he should take, he won't be a big player but he'll play for big players.
I disagree with the death. I really want to see Alibaba grow and say "Look Fuck it, this is how I feel, this is what I'm going for." instead of supporting anyone elses dream even if he disagrees with them.


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## Cocidius (Jan 15, 2015)

ensoriki said:


> Aladdin is the worst character in Magi.
> 
> I've been saying continously. Alibaba needs to develop his convictions. I thought maybe The Dark spot would do it, maybe alma toran arc. It seems like it spurned him on a bit but he's still prostrating himself to whomever if it helps Balbaad. Even still before Balbaad, he was running and we know he was running away. He's scared of the real responsibility he should take, he won't be a big player but he'll play for big players.
> I disagree with the death. I really want to see Alibaba grow and say "Look Fuck it, this is how I feel, this is what I'm going for." instead of supporting anyone elses dream even if he disagrees with them.



I said the Aladdin part because of his MC status and we'd have to deal with him either way, but honestly I'd be good without both of them. I don't think they lack character development. I just don't care for them as characters themselves. Which in a way is a sign of good writing. 

I agree with your view on Alibaba that's probably the main reason I don't like him. Death might be extreme, but honestly I don't see a purpose for his character. Besides giving Aladdin something to do. Which come to think of it I'm now starting to question Aladdin's decision in why he choose Alibaba as a king vessel? If it's his Kindness there are a bunch of decisive and Kind characters in Magi. So that's kind of nothing special. Can't really think of any other reasons for this choice.


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## Rokudaime (Jan 16, 2015)

Since when being a nice guy a bad thing? Alibaba is probably the most genuine nice guy in the world, and it was sad to see Hakuryuu twisted Alibaba's good intention to something evil, when it was not.

This is the first time I want Alibaba stays true to his character. I mean, current Hakuryuu was insane. Even you kill him, he will laugh at you. The only thing now can break Hakuryuu is not giving into his twisted mindset.

Hakuryuu: WHY? WHY? WHY ARE YOU STILL NOT YIELD IN? WHY???? *breakdown*


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## Santí (Jan 16, 2015)

Rokudaime said:


> Hakuryuu: WHY? WHY? WHY ARE YOU STILL NOT YIELD IN? WHY???? *breakdown*



How to drop sales 313.

Hakuuryu is fucking Azula now? Give me a break.


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## Palm Siberia (Jan 16, 2015)

Well if he was Azula he would give a manic face with his body in a distorted position so he's not that insane at the moment.


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## Cocidius (Jan 16, 2015)

Palm Siberia said:


> Well if he was Azula he would give a manic face with his body in a distorted position so he's not that insane at the moment.



I didn't get the insane vibe either. He just has a harsher/realistic view of the world. Which I prefer over a naive character and the other stuff is tactics. Now when he starts doing off the wall s*it I will start to question his sanity.


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## Wesley (Jan 16, 2015)

Jetstorm said:


> His people are one step above slavery under Kouen's rule and are a colony of the empire (before Hakuryuu's rebellion) that is trying to end the world entirely. Alibaba is kicking the can down the road by being a willing puppet but it still ends with Al Thamen winning because his puppet master won't bite the hand that feeds him.



Kouen isn't as beholden to Al Thamen as all that, and what has been done to is hardly slavery.  It's something like a meritocracy with a clearly defined social ladder that allows anyone to climb.  Pay enough taxes and your social standing will increase.  You'll get more responsibility and more opportunities.

Seriously, thinking that a dress code is the end of the world.  Kou couldn't have done anything and have it be the right thing as far as basically anyone is concerned.



> Alibaba thinks he can keep punting on the hard choices every time someone else pins him down in debate but that is a reality he isn't going to be able to run away from. Solomon, Sinbad, and Hakuryuu couldn't and Alibaba (unless he gets the MC pass just cause) likely can't either. There may or may not be a right answer but Alibaba doesn't even _have_ an answer to begin with. His default decision is to maintain the status quo that someone else is setting for him while hoping he can make the temperature of the pot his people are cooking in _slightly_ less warm than it currently is.



He did make a hard decision; he agreed to Kouen's terms.  Now he's potentially an enemy of Sindria.  There wasn't any other choice if he wanted to help Balbaad.  He could have chosen to abandon Balbaad to Kouen and remained with Sinbad, but he chose one that was probably more difficult for him personally.

Frankly, Hakuryuu's insane.  He makes arguments that he probably doesn't even believe in.  He twists everything around so much that simply having a conversation with him is the same as trying to run his life.  He really doesn't have any legitimate criticism of Alibaba.  Frankly, most people that like him do so because he's pretty much the most hands off guy there is.  He doesn't give orders and that's why people follow him.

Alibaba is not na?ve.  He's aware of the risks, but he thinks he has to take them for a variety of reasons.  He was worried that Hakuryuu might have changed.  He doesn't know just how thoroughly Hakuryuu has burned his bridges to other paths than the one he has chosen (declaring Kouen a traitor, brain washing people, etc).  Basically the reason why he's meeting with Hakuryuu is because he hopes to avoid a war that would hurt many people.

Right now he needs to determine if he's ready to kill Hakuryuu to do that though.  Has that occurred to him?  He's not the type of guy to jump to that conclusion, which is one of his strengths, as well as his weaknesses.


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## Ftg07 (Jan 16, 2015)

Nice.


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## Fourangers (Jan 16, 2015)

Hakuryuu: "Why? Why??? You make everyone's heart go doki-doki so I must kill you! "

This is what I felt when I read this chapter.


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## ensoriki (Jan 16, 2015)

Cocidius said:


> I said the Aladdin part because of his MC status and we'd have to deal with him either way, but honestly I'd be good without both of them. I don't think they lack character development. I just don't care for them as characters themselves. Which in a way is a sign of good writing.
> 
> I agree with your view on Alibaba that's probably the main reason I don't like him. Death might be extreme, but honestly I don't see a purpose for his character. Besides giving Aladdin something to do. Which come to think of it I'm now starting to question Aladdin's decision in why he choose Alibaba as a king vessel? If it's his Kindness there are a bunch of decisive and Kind characters in Magi. So that's kind of nothing special. Can't really think of any other reasons for this choice.



I find Alibaba to be one of the best in the book.
The problem is if he doesn't grow he will grow stale, and the time has absolutely come for it.
Nothing Alibaba has chosen is easy, it's non-confrontational, its self-sacrificial. It's easy in the respect in that he doesn't have to come up with the plans or lead, it's difficult in that he has to disrespect himself and what he truly wants. It was the same with the Fog Troupe. Alibaba didn't support everything Cassim was doing but he cared for him and the Fog troupe so he put himself on the line. It's odd that he continuously rejects the throne despite being the most suited for it in Balbaad. 

Imo Alibaba is just running away from his problems and its hurting him.

Hakuryuu is a bit of a twat to be fair who himself is running away from his problems, he knows everything he does is fucked up but can't help escaping into depravity instead of dealing with his demons head on. Koumei and Kouen admitted that they're going a path they don't like because they can't consider what they really want to be realistic possibilities. It seems everyone but Sinbad (and we can't even say that for certain) is lying to themselves and/or running away from their own power.

The character development is certainly interesting I just dont want it to drag. Only character who really feels like they aren't growing is Sinbad, Aladdin and I want to say Morgianna but Morgianna isn't getting any limelight right now anyways. Sinbad is growing in his own book so it doesn't matter. Aladdin is honestly the weirdest character in the book to me. Does anything really phase this kid? "Arba killed my mother. Doesn't bother me though because I didn't really care you know? Although I just relived this entire arc. I don't really feel anything for my parents.". "I won't interfere except for when I am interfering". 

Why does nothing phase Aladdin and even when he goofs up no one cares Im so perturbed by that. It's like Naruto is Jesus in chibi form. Except there is no "sasuke" right now to him personally. It would be Judar one would assume, but that dynamic hasn't even been explored at this point. They met in Balbaad and haven't really communicated on a real level since then....Wtf is that lol.

Could honestly see this manga just getting better if Aladdin was a) dead or b) has something actually you know have repercussions on him.

I don't see any benefit to Alibaba dying at this current stage of things because while there are plenty of nice people. Alibaba is the *current* poster boy for "taking the high road" and we don't know if he can personally continue taking that trip as he is right now. 
The only other hopes are really Mu and Kougyoku or however you spell her name and Haku's sister. Note Im having difficulty remembering the womens names, because Ohtaka has made them fairly irrelevant. Haku's sister just being a catalyst for his anger in this chapter.

Characters that need development if they're going to be well worth anything: A lot of kings candidates.
Characters that just need to grow moar: All the main kings candidates except Sinbad + Aladdin.
Characters whose growth doesnt matter if we just kill them off: Aladdin.


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## Cocidius (Jan 16, 2015)

ensoriki said:


> I find Alibaba to be one of the best in the book.
> The problem is if he doesn't grow he will grow stale, and the time has absolutely come for it.
> Nothing Alibaba has chosen is easy, it's non-confrontational, its self-sacrificial. It's easy in the respect in that he doesn't have to come up with the plans or lead, it's difficult in that he has to disrespect himself and what he truly wants. It was the same with the Fog Troupe. Alibaba didn't support everything Cassim was doing but he cared for him and the Fog troupe so he put himself on the line. It's odd that he continuously rejects the throne despite being the most suited for it in Balbaad.
> 
> ...



I LOL on the chibi Naruto Now that you mention  it I kinda only remember two female characters names without having to look back at the manga. 

I agree with most of what you said, but the Hakuryuu running away from his problems. He's the only one that is actually doing something about his. He revenged his family and is taking back what's rightfully his. The only thing I can see where you would see this is his relationship with his sister, but that's small compared to what he actually needs to do. Unless you can expand on what you meant.

Hopefully we see a change in Aladdin now that he knows the truth. I hope if we have to see Alibaba  more he does become more decisive. I just don't like the naive high road type in the Magiverse. Where people have to actually think about their countries and how to rule. He has nothing that is worthy of being a King. That's why he needs more than the "high road taker" and "Kind to a fault" charastics for me to take him seriously. His character just doesn't resonate with me mainly because he's indecisive and a terrible leader. With a country at stake it's just not acceptable to be weak and naive. 

Last thing I hope we get to see an adult version of Aladdin the chibi thing kills me. We don't need a Sasuke character. He was one of the main things I disliked in Naruto.


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## Kellogem (Jan 16, 2015)

Im not sure the fundamental aspects of Alibabas character are compatible with being a king..

and thats not necessarily a bad thing.. a king need to think of his people like they are numbers sometimes ignoring the needs of few people for the many... also unless its going to be so idealistic with world peace and shit, trampling on other people from other countries in case of war.

alibaba right now is too nice to be king or a ruler.. but Im not sure having a king is a good thing to begin with. 

the mangaka can only make him a good king AND keep his likeable personality if she ignores the more difficult issues and hard choices a king had to make, like everything is peaceful and prospering under his reign. otherwise Kouen or Sindbad are more fitting to be kings.

I wish at the end of the manga there would be some kind of twist regarding the king candidate thing, like Aladdin would choose someone else (like a sane Hakuryuu) either cause Alibaba would refuse to be king, or sacrifice his life, something fitting his idealistic personality.

btw anyone here haveread Sumomomo momomo? is it good?


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## Wesley (Jan 16, 2015)

Alibaba doesn't run away from his problems.  He has so many problems that he doesn't know how to deal with them all.  If he were a typical shonen protagonist in a typical shonen manga, he could let his fists solve his problems, but it's not that easy and even if it were, he wants to find a better solution.


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## son_michael (Jan 16, 2015)

A major theme of Shounen is that the good guys can always find another way out of the darkness. Alibaba will learn how to bring about peace and be the solution to everyone's problems. Otherwise this would be a Seinen.


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## Cocidius (Jan 16, 2015)

son_michael said:


> A major theme of Shounen is that the good guys can always find another way out of the darkness. Alibaba will learn how to bring about peace and be the solution to everyone's problems. Otherwise this would be a Seinen.



I would see this if he was the main character, but fortunately he isn't. I see Aladdin in that role. However they are a team so by default he would be involved. He just doesn't make a good King for the world they live in. 

@Kell?gem I agree.


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## Kellogem (Jan 16, 2015)

son_michael said:


> A major theme of Shounen is that the good guys can always find another way out of the darkness. Alibaba will learn how to bring about peace and be the solution to everyone's problems. Otherwise this would be a Seinen.



Im not sure all shounens are swallow as that, but I dont read enough shounen dealing with questions regarding social problems to name counterexamples.

at least Im sure Magis mangaka is better than Kishimoto.. Naruto didnt solve shit and the author just ignored the more sensitive issues altogether. I had the impression Magi takes things more seriously than that.


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## ~VK~ (Jan 16, 2015)

Cocidius said:


> I would see this if he was the main character, but fortunately he isn't. I see Aladdin in that role. However they are a team so by default he would be involved. He just doesn't make a good King for the world they live in.
> 
> @Kell?gem I agree.



Meh, I consider alibaba co-main character.


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## Cocidius (Jan 16, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> Im not sure all shounens are swallow as that, but I dont read enough shounen dealing with questions regarding social problems to name counterexamples.
> 
> at least Im sure Magis mangaka is better than Kishimoto.. Naruto didnt solve shit and the author just ignored the more sensitive issues altogether. I had the impression Magi takes things more seriously than that.



So true. Kishimoto had a simple world with simple people. However I see what kind of trope Son was talking about. If indeed the mangaka uses that trope it'd be more complex than how kishi did it, but it'd be Aladdin with help from Alibaba. 

I also hope the simple minded main character thing dies out. Being dumb is not something people should look up to.


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## Cocidius (Jan 16, 2015)

Vongola King said:


> Meh, I consider alibaba co-main character.



He's part of the main cast, but the main character/Pro-tag is Aladdin. There's a difference. Although however is see it for yourself is fine too.


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## Wesley (Jan 16, 2015)

son_michael said:


> A major theme of Shounen is that the good guys can always find another way out of the darkness. Alibaba will learn how to bring about peace and be the solution to everyone's problems. Otherwise this would be a Seinen.



Actually he does find ways, but some fucker always pops up to screw things up.


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 16, 2015)

son_michael said:


> A major theme of Shounen is that the good guys can always find another way out of the darkness. Alibaba will learn how to bring about peace and be the solution to everyone's problems. Otherwise this would be a Seinen.



Has everyone forgotten that his original intent with Balbadd way back when was to have Balbadd become a republic governed by the people, not a kingdom governed by himself or any other king?

For Balbadd to get better, it is likely that Alibaba will need to break off from Kouen entirely (without bloodshed) so that Balbadd can get back to being a self-governing republic, rather than a puppet government under the rule of the Kou Empire.


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## ensoriki (Jan 19, 2015)

Catalyst75 said:


> Has everyone forgotten that his original intent with Balbadd way back when was to have Balbadd become a republic governed by the people, not a kingdom governed by himself or any other king?
> 
> For Balbadd to get better, it is likely that Alibaba will need to break off from Kouen entirely (without bloodshed) so that Balbadd can get back to being a self-governing republic, rather than a puppet government under the rule of the Kou Empire.



I never forgot it's exactly why I say he's running away.
He had an *IDEAL* one he is not realizing because he won't take the helm.
Alibaba needs to decide for himself his own vision and that he's going to make it come true, instead of letting everyone else force their own ideals on him because he's trying to avoid getting his hands any dirtier.

The problem isn't him becoming King. I said long before it seems Ohtaka wants the end-game to be some of Democracy and the abolishment of Kings/Queens.
The idea that the people choose for themselves and make their own "fates".
Now democracy isn't that flowery but it seemed back then that it is exactly how Ohtaka will portray it in the end.
It also seems to be what Solomon ultimately wanted but couldn't realize himself when he spread the Rukh.

Thing is though how is this going to happen if Alibaba keeps letting people say "Well if you care about Balbaad you should totally do this thing with me that you don't believe in" which has happened what with Sinbad, Kouen/Koumei AND NOW Hakuryuu.
Everyones trying to tell hombre that he has a responsibility to Balbaad and that the responsibility is to do things within their vision of the world.

I just want the boy to finally tell everyone to fuck off, and he's going to establish his ideals.

Its seeming like he's going to tip-toe forever, ultimately beat the big-bad and when everyone else is no longer a candidate because they got taken out along the way against big-bad...he'll just be "I have an idea" and everyone will accept it on the fucking spot like some fairy tail. Then we'll all go "Well it was foreshadowed".

No....he needs to make these movements from now, and not pull this conviction out of his ass at the end of the book that will piss me off .


----------



## Magnum Miracles (Jan 20, 2015)

Shit, things really picked up right out of the gate after the flashback arc. Now, we're moving into Alibaba Vs. Hakuryuu territory. Magi is truly one of my  fav weekly publishing manga.


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## crystalblade13 (Jan 20, 2015)

He'll yeah, the fight looks like it's starting off awesomely based on those raws. Datmagi man. Never disappoints.


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## Kellogem (Jan 20, 2015)

I wonder if Hakuryuu is afraid of being burned because of past experiences... 

hope they start using their attributes - fire and organic stuff - the next chapter.


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## ensoriki (Jan 20, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> I wonder if Hakuryuu is afraid of being burned because of past experiences...
> 
> hope they start using their attributes - fire and organic stuff - the next chapter.



I've Got spoilers on Hakuryuu after Alibaba finishes with him


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## Wesley (Jan 20, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> I wonder if Hakuryuu is afraid of being burned because of past experiences...



He'll begin bathing in the blood of the innocent to ensure that doesn't happen.


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## son_michael (Jan 20, 2015)

ensoriki said:


> I never forgot it's exactly why I say he's running away.
> He had an *IDEAL* one he is not realizing because he won't take the helm.
> Alibaba needs to decide for himself his own vision and that he's going to make it come true, instead of letting everyone else force their own ideals on him because he's trying to avoid getting his hands any dirtier.
> 
> ...




He just doesn't want war, he wants his kingdom to be peaceful. Honestly right now siding with Kouen is best for him, his people are getting treated well and everyone is joining forces to beat the evil organization that controlled the ren empire from the shadows..EXCEPT Hakuryu who is basically out for blood and expects alibaba to be the same way because his kingdom got conquered by politics. 

Alibaba should be delivering Hakuryu to Kouen on a silver platter but that's not the kind of man he is, he wants peace and friendship. 

so 1 of 2 things are gonna happen...either Alibaba conforms the world to his standards or he throws away his innocence in friendship and bonds and decides to go to war with everybody and take his kingdom back by force.

Now which do you think is more likely in a Shounen?


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## LordPerucho (Jan 21, 2015)

Alma Toran flashback so boring that FT beat them .



> Here are the weekly Manga & Light Novel rankings for January 12th - 18th
> 
> Rank / This week's sales by copies / Cumulative sales / Titles
> 
> ...



And both volumes were released on January 16th.


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## Vandal Savage (Jan 21, 2015)

Magi had a special edition for vol. 24 so its collective sales are split between the regular and special editions. Both volume 24s covering the rest of the Alma Torran arc still outsold Fairy Tail by some odd 30K volumes.


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## crystalblade13 (Jan 21, 2015)

well lordperucho, that blew up in your face now didnt it. 

The alma torran arc is10 times better than anything fairytail has ever put out and the main characters werent even present. lol


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## ensoriki (Jan 22, 2015)

son_michael said:


> He just doesn't want war, he wants his kingdom to be peaceful. Honestly right now siding with Kouen is best for him, his people are getting treated well and everyone is joining forces to beat the evil organization that controlled the ren empire from the shadows..EXCEPT Hakuryu who is basically out for blood and expects alibaba to be the same way because his kingdom got conquered by politics.
> 
> Alibaba should be delivering Hakuryu to Kouen on a silver platter but that's not the kind of man he is, he wants peace and friendship.
> 
> ...



We know he doesn't want war we also know he doesn't _really_ want to be a King, which is part of him coming to his decision for Balbaad.
We already went to Balbaad and while he knows they are better with Kouen than they were in the past he also knows of the unease they feel and the slavery that disturbs him.

Option 3) Alibaba gets caught being unable to bring Kouen or Hakuryuu to reason. Alibaba is forced to act whether he likes it or not (...like right now). He gains Balbaad not from actively taking it, but his defiance leading to its control being relinquished by hotter heads (like Hakuryuu attacking him right now).
All Alibaba needs to do is take a stand the Kings candidates around him are too full of themselves to allow him to just disagree.


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## Kellogem (Jan 22, 2015)

I have the feeling Morgiana is going to show up in this fight, most likely around the end with Muu or Titus or whoever saving Alibabas and Aladdins ass..


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## Rokudaime (Jan 23, 2015)

Image from Chapter 253


For those who thinks Hakuryuu is better king for Balbadd than Kouen.


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## Wesley (Jan 23, 2015)

Say what you want about Al-Thamen, but at least they never put plants inside of people's brains.


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## Kellogem (Jan 23, 2015)

I think they would do if they had the method.. as long as they can generate black rukh.


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## Wesley (Jan 23, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> I think they would do if they had the method.. as long as they can generate black rukh.



No, they seemed to take a certain amount of delight in getting people to do things of their free will.


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## Kellogem (Jan 23, 2015)

Wesley said:


> No, they seemed to take a certain amount of delight in getting people to do things of their free will.



who knows if they not only do that cause they cant mass mindfuck... not sure if there are Al Thamen principles. I think they put results before methods.


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## Palm Siberia (Jan 23, 2015)

Rokudaime said:


> Image from Chapter 253
> 
> 
> For those who thinks Hakuryuu is better king for Balbadd than Kouen.



Give them the sharingan they will be fine


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## son_michael (Jan 24, 2015)

ensoriki said:


> We know he doesn't want war we also know he doesn't _really_ want to be a King, which is part of him coming to his decision for Balbaad.
> We already went to Balbaad and while he knows they are better with Kouen than they were in the past he also knows of the unease they feel and the slavery that disturbs him.
> 
> Option 3) Alibaba gets caught being unable to bring Kouen or Hakuryuu to reason. Alibaba is forced to act whether he likes it or not (...like right now). He gains Balbaad not from actively taking it, but his defiance leading to its control being relinquished by hotter heads (like Hakuryuu attacking him right now).
> All Alibaba needs to do is take a stand the Kings candidates around him are too full of themselves to allow him to just disagree.




correct me if I'm wrong(and I very well may be since I read it like once) but aren't his people happy now? They don't have a fat tryant king ruling over them and their living in comfort thanks to the support from the Ren empire...i don't really call that slavery when they have been delivered from an even worse predicament. I mean didn't Kouen tell Alibaba Balbaad can do w/e they want as long as Alibaba joins him?

So yea for a peaceful guy like Alibaba, that seems to be the smart choice. For him to suddenly say "I will be king!" feels out of character..at least at this point in the story.


----------



## Kellogem (Jan 24, 2015)

his buddy was complaining to him they dont feel free and shit...

for me it looked like they are a bunch of whiners who dont like rules and were bored of living a workers life, but I guess the message is its no good until a system is forced on them... like there is going to be a system or ruler good for everyone.


----------



## ensoriki (Jan 25, 2015)

son_michael said:


> correct me if I'm wrong(and I very well may be since I read it like once) but aren't his people happy now? They don't have a fat tryant king ruling over them and their living in comfort thanks to the support from the Ren empire...i don't really call that slavery when they have been delivered from an even worse predicament. I mean didn't Kouen tell Alibaba Balbaad can do w/e they want as long as Alibaba joins him?
> 
> So yea for a peaceful guy like Alibaba, that seems to be the smart choice. For him to suddenly say "I will be king!" feels out of character..at least at this point in the story.



Ohtaka presented two sides of the coin.
Balbaad became part of Kou, rebuilt from the ground up. People got equal footing, and colors representing their status. On the other hand their path is directed for them, the identify and culture of Balbaad is being erased . Are they important to preserve? Maybe they aren't but it's part of the unrest that Hasaan feels. Ohtaka is presenting us with the different takes as she had Zaynab describe the city prior.

Their is clearly a divide here where Zaynab is appreciative of the change, Hassan also seems to appreciate change but he doesn't want to lose his identity, given Alibaba's acceptance of the situation he drops it. Hassan tells us in the following chapter that people originally spoke against it, and they were executed. So when he mentions to us people are becoming dumber because they don't have to think for themselves it is because the Kou government is being particularly controlling for their prosperity.

It breaks down and in a way becomes a parallel to our world.

*Spoiler*: __ 







In the end Hassan is part of the system and has a family.

This ultimately goes back to Yunan and Alladdin discussing what it means to be a kings vessel
"There used to be one or two kings at an age"...however due to Yunan and Judar there are multiple vessels "What would happened if they went into conflict because of their different wills".

The fight between vessels is really just to be one of different goals. You can already see Hassan wanted Balbaad to be different, the fog troupe talked about how they wanted to change their kingdom. He's no longer in the situation to do so. Alibaba even asks him "why" doesnt he want to rebel but the funny thing is that it's Alibaba who has to figure out where his heart lies.
Yunan, Judar, Whats her name and Aladdin as Magi's have presented multiple people power to change and shape the world. 

if we want to go deeper about Balbaad instead of just Hassans personal opinions


*Spoiler*: __ 








Given status they'll leave you to die on the street. One of Alibaba's former comrades has 4 slaves himself. Is this something Alibaba believes in? It's not. This is where again that talk of Kings vessels having different wells creates the probability of conflict even if they dont want to war.

Or...




Balbaad is still in a state that is part of what justified their rebellion in the first place. All that is changed is who is the bottom of the barrel isn't them anymore.

You wouldn't call it slavery? The people are taken from their homes in the north, brought to the Kou Empire, if they're injured they are left to die. If you try to help you may be punished and hell they directly threatened to starve common people for not ignoring the situation.



Kell?gem said:


> his buddy was complaining to him they dont feel free and shit...
> 
> for me it looked like they are a bunch of whiners who dont like rules and were bored of living a workers life, but I guess the message is its no good until a system is forced on them... like there is going to be a system or ruler good for everyone.



On the contrary. Hassans wife is content because she's living a better life. Hassan is upset because this isn't what they fought for, he even calls the slaves "servants" to Alibaba, indicating a *different* view on their worth then just calling them slaves which is what they're actually called...
Alibaba sees the same thing but they have Balbaad in their hands and are using that to force him into positions he does not agree with.

Also...Kou is seriously full of douchebags.

Funny they still see Alibaba as their prince, and he still looks out for them . 

Ultimately

*Spoiler*: __ 






VS


 what he wants for himself.


Recall Zephyr being used to take over Kougyokou or whatever her name is by Sinbad.
Remember Phenyx being used on Hakuryuu by Kouen.
Who can forget Hakuryuu using Belial.

The current 3 biggest players as Kings candidates are all extremely manipulative and trying to get him to do what they wish



*Everyone* is playing Alibaba for a bitch.


----------



## ensoriki (Jan 26, 2015)

254 spoiler trans from mangahelpers Chapter 164


*Spoiler*: __ 



Alibaba tries to break Hakuryuu's metal vessel with his Amon, and Hakuryuu realizes this and get mad, call Alibaba an unforgivable hypocrite(again).
Alibaba says he doesn't care, he already decided that he's going to take Hakuryuu back even if he had to pound him into that.
Hakuryuu says take me back? hah, to where?
Alibaba says to where he was before falling into depravity, Hakuryuu says Alibaba is self-righteous...
This is the way he chose to live. He's no longer going to live his life as a nobody. The world that Gyokuen or Kouen or Hakuei believed in... He couldn't live in that world. Therefore those who believes in their own cause should fight till death, and Alibaba you are not determined for this!
Alibaba asks fight till death, just because their belief is different? Then what will be left there? There will be nothing! The rightful world is somewhere all the people argue they're right while coexisting with each other!
Hakuryuu says your pretty words can't change anything, *you are always fighting under someone's order, a king's vessel who can't prove anything by himself*!

Then the scene changes into Aladin vs Judar. At first, Aladin seems to be completly overpowered by Judar's black rukh, but then Aladin stretch the space to block out Judar's black lightning, and says Judar doesn't yet know of the magic only I know!




More reinforcement that Alibaba needs to go on his own.


----------



## LordPerucho (Jan 26, 2015)

Alibaba went full Ichigo mode, I like that.


----------



## Vandal Savage (Jan 26, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Hakuryuu really doesn't sugar coat things. 

Also did Aladdin and Judar bother talking about significant things or did they jump right into magic fisticuffs?


----------



## Kellogem (Jan 26, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Aladdin can bend space now - when did he learn that?


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jan 26, 2015)

Sinbad Side Story is still going strong have you guys been keeping up with it?


----------



## Kellogem (Jan 26, 2015)

meh, Sinbad making bitches left and right, not really interested... maybe if he would finally fight Al Thamen.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jan 26, 2015)

^Whats better then Sinbad getting Bitches?


----------



## Kellogem (Jan 26, 2015)

Al Thamen making bitches suffer


----------



## Vandal Savage (Jan 26, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Sinbad Side Story is still going strong have you guys been keeping up with it?



Never miss a chapter.


----------



## son_michael (Jan 26, 2015)

ensoriki said:


> Ohtaka presented two sides of the coin.
> Balbaad became part of Kou, rebuilt from the ground up. People got equal footing, and colors representing their status. On the other hand their path is directed for them, the identify and culture of Balbaad is being erased . Are they important to preserve? Maybe they aren't but it's part of the unrest that Hasaan feels. Ohtaka is presenting us with the different takes as she had Zaynab describe the city prior.
> 
> Their is clearly a divide here where Zaynab is appreciative of the change, Hassan also seems to appreciate change but he doesn't want to lose his identity, given Alibaba's acceptance of the situation he drops it. Hassan tells us in the following chapter that people originally spoke against it, and they were executed. So when he mentions to us people are becoming dumber because they don't have to think for themselves it is because the Kou government is being particularly controlling for their prosperity.
> ...




Thanks for the history lesson, you opened up my eyes to a lot of things that i didn't see from reading the chapters weekly.




ensoriki said:


> 254 spoiler trans from mangahelpers a moment like this
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...




sounds like Alibaba is going Naru jesus mode to me.


----------



## Rukia (Jan 27, 2015)

This can be a good thing if it forces Alibaba to grow.  But Judar and Hakuryuu are really insufferable.  And Hakuryuu himself became irredeemable this chapter.  He deserves the death penalty when he is inevitably defeated.


----------



## Rax (Jan 27, 2015)

Gonna get caught up right now


----------



## Darth (Jan 27, 2015)

Hakuryuu became such a boring villain. Falling into depravity is literally the most generic nonsense you can use to create a villain. Kouen was a lot more interesting as a potential bad guy


----------



## Rax (Jan 27, 2015)

LolHakuryuu


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Jan 27, 2015)

Darth said:


> Hakuryuu became such a boring villain. Falling into depravity is literally the most generic nonsense you can use to create a villain. Kouen was a lot more interesting as a potential bad guy




What annoys me the most is the fact, that Hakuryuu had actual valid points.
But now with this development Aladdin and Alibaba get to simply sweep it all under the rug and avoid the issues.

No need to actually debate and offer solutions, when you simply make the opponent fall into depravity and have him make plant zombies out of his subjects.


----------



## Vandal Savage (Jan 27, 2015)

Fun chapter. I was wondering why Aladdin didn't notice on sight but it looks like Judar did do something to hide Hakuryuu's depravity after all.

Hakuryuu is so far gone that Aladdin better find a way to turn black rukh white again if he wants to save him at all. Alibaba is lucky that Aladdin bailed him out against Belial. In the next encounter he should be more prepared to not get caught up in Belial's magic.


----------



## Rax (Jan 27, 2015)

Hakuryuu is super edge king now


----------



## Catalyst75 (Jan 27, 2015)

Chapter 253 out at Mangabird, and Chapter 254 Raw at Mangabird:

Chapter 62
Chapter 62


*Spoiler*: __ 



A space-time magic!  Solomon must be so...very proud...

His little boy's learnt to manipulate the dhorrs (powers) and reils (pathways).


----------



## Rax (Jan 27, 2015)

I thought Magi was really popular.

Why are we behind in translations?


----------



## Kellogem (Jan 27, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



and they are still talking..

it looks like Alibaba managed to convince Hakuryuu, since he doesnt look so rabid at the end but I guess its a farce..

Aladdin pulled space warping out of his ass, not too happy about it, it doesnt even look cool unlike Judars black lightning.

hope next chapter Hakuryuu uses some plants, Alibaba already started to use his fire with not much of a success.

I like how even with such short fights, Magis manage to be intense.. it feel like there is more tension and content in these last 2 chapters than 2 months worth of fighting in Bleach.. and still manage to have character development and conversations cause they dont stop having a talk in the middle of the fight after 2 moves.


----------



## Rax (Jan 27, 2015)

No fighting?


----------



## Kellogem (Jan 27, 2015)

Rax said:


> No fighting?



there is, but they are still talking meanwhile..


----------



## ensoriki (Jan 27, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Damn people wont leave Bleach Alone.

Gonna start going GoH fights have more colour then Magi


----------



## Kellogem (Jan 27, 2015)

I miss Black Metal Vessel users... when was the last time they were relevant, in Zagan? its like the mangaka totally forgot about them.

hope they managed to improve the black metal vessels so they are going to pose a threat if they reappear.. not getting owned by household vessel users.


----------



## Ftg07 (Jan 27, 2015)

Alibaba kick his ass


----------



## Kellogem (Jan 27, 2015)

Ftg07 said:


> Alibaba kick his ass



that emoticon looks like manipulated by Hakuryuu.. I think its screaming "Kouen is an usurper!"


----------



## crystalblade13 (Jan 28, 2015)

This fight is epic so far, taijutsu never gets old no matter what series it is. especially airial taijutsu. those were some sick blocks the 2 of them were pulling off!


*Spoiler*: __ 



 And holy shit next chater looks great too. Judars Iceberg tech overpowered the 3 harharl infigar lasers which is pretty crazy! I bet aladdins space manipulation is still raw and undefined. Im sure i'll take some time to master. There could be drawbacks too. 

And finally, can someone tell me the point of what hakuryuu shot out? I was thinking those were plant monsters or something, but they broke through amons flame and just like missed or something. Seemed super pointless and is the only downside I've seen in 254 (before translations anyway).


----------



## Kellogem (Jan 28, 2015)

crystalblade13 said:


> And finally, can someone tell me the point of what hakuryuu shot out? I was thinking those were plant monsters or something, but they broke through amons flame and just like missed or something. Seemed super pointless and is the only downside I've seen in 254 (before translations anyway). </spoiler>



I think they are generic spear stabs, nothing special and Alibaba used fire as a curtain to block his vision so he cant aim... its no wonder the stabs went through it as the flame wont physically block them.

then Hakuryuu flew though the fire into Alibabas face surprising him.


----------



## Rax (Jan 28, 2015)

Why is Hakuryuu so edge lord now?


----------



## Santí (Jan 28, 2015)

Because Koen is an usurper


----------



## crystalblade13 (Jan 28, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> I think they are generic spear stabs, nothing special and Alibaba used fire as a curtain to block his vision so he cant aim... its no wonder the stabs went through it as the flame wont physically block them.
> 
> then Hakuryuu flew though the fire into Alibabas face surprising him.



Maybe. I think she could have presentnted that better though.

Oh well the rest of the fights been great, so as long as she keeps it up the fight should still kick ass overall.

And why can i never get spoiler tags to work...


----------



## Kellogem (Jan 28, 2015)

crystalblade13 said:


> And why can i never get spoiler tags to work...



I wonder about that too.. you only have to highlight the text and click at the Sp button, are you typing it in?


----------



## crystalblade13 (Jan 28, 2015)

got it fixed, yeah was typing it like a moron, thanks kellogem!


----------



## ensoriki (Jan 28, 2015)

Alibaba should kick Hakuryuus ass, and Judar should beat Aladdin.

Leaving Hakuryuu to redirect his anger straight to Alibaba from Kouen because /angrylogic.
And Aladdin needs to lose more anyways.

Would lol if Hakuryuu forges an Alliance with Kouen just to fuck up Alibaba.


----------



## Kellogem (Jan 28, 2015)

Alibaba needs to lose more as well, when was the last time he lost fair and square? 

he needs a good beating more than Aladdin cause at least he could learn from it, I dont see what Aladdin would learn from getting beaten..

otoh Hakuryuu got his ass kicked in Zagan, kind of in the Madoura arc, by Gyokuen the first time, and even the second time only managed to pull it cause of Judars and the farts help looking like shit at the end of it, it would be about time for him to dominate someone otherwise it would be hard to take him seriously in a fight.


----------



## ensoriki (Jan 28, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> Alibaba needs to lose more as well, when was the last time he lost fair and square?
> 
> he needs a good beating more than Aladdin cause at least he could learn from it, I dont see what Aladdin would learn from getting beaten..
> 
> otoh Hakuryuu got his ass kicked in Zagan, kind of in the Madoura arc, by Gyokuen the first time, and even the second time only managed to pull it cause of Judars and the farts help looking like shit at the end of it, it would be about time for him to dominate someone otherwise it would be hard to take him seriously in a fight.



Alibaba gets beat every  arc. 
They either talk about his failures with women, his failures with Balbaad, his failures with Cassim, Failure not to have Kouen and Sinbad play him like a fiddle due him being unable to turn them down because they use his compassion as a hostage. He constantly loses on a political level, and got shown up back at the dark spot...before that he was getting chewed on by a monkey lol which if I recall, also wanted him to bang it. 

How much more can he lose

He should beat Hakuryuus ass like a 3$ prostitute, and get back his 3$ when he is finished.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Jan 28, 2015)

Rax said:


> Why is Hakuryuu so edge lord now?



Because Ill Ilah is raving mad at Solomon for stealing his Rukh, so when the Rukh becomes black it means Ill Ilah's influence over a person's behaviour and personality is taken into overdrive, leading to drastic shifts in personality.


----------



## Kellogem (Jan 29, 2015)

ensoriki said:


> Alibaba gets beat every  arc.
> They either talk about his failures with women, his failures with Balbaad, his failures with Cassim, Failure not to have Kouen and Sinbad play him like a fiddle due him being unable to turn them down because they use his compassion as a hostage. He constantly loses on a political level, and got shown up back at the dark spot...before that he was getting chewed on by a monkey lol which if I recall, also wanted him to bang it.
> 
> How much more can he lose
> ...



I was talking about physically beaten 

had a hard time with the monkey, but still won.. won against berserk Hakuryuu, Isaac, the 2 kou monster bodyguards, even against Morgianas abusive owner iirc (even though its been a while and was only watching the anime that time), impressive against Muu and the medium / dark djinns.

Alibaba is played for butt monkey, but in reality which is worse, having 2 cute potential love interest around or having the only experience you have with women is your mom kissing you and friendzoned by the girl you love.. Alibaba has Balbadd and lot of friends, Hakuryuu has no one and he has to mindfuck his people to accept him..

Hakuryuu is much more of a failure in life.


----------



## Vandal Savage (Jan 29, 2015)

Hakuryuu has Judar to go on Edgecellent Adventures with but that is about it. That still makes for a lonely existence. And his only other experience with a woman outside of his mom is kissing Mor and her pushing away his feelings.

All Hakuryuu losing here would do is send him looking for a 3rd dungeon to conqueror to gain more power and that is about the last thing those who oppose him would want. I'd be cool with it though because he seems to be one of the more innovative metal vessel users.


----------



## Kellogem (Jan 29, 2015)

I know, its the lack of action with woman what makes Hakuryuu and Judar so edgy.. its the power of blue balls.

They should tap some fine al-thamen girl hakuryuu brainwashes before..


----------



## son_michael (Jan 30, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> I know, its the lack of action with woman what makes Hakuryuu and Judar so edgy.. its the power of blue balls.
> 
> They should tap some fine al-thamen girl hakuryuu brainwashes before..



Bad guys never want to have sex unless their old men.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Feb 3, 2015)

Chapter 255 raw:

Chapter 62


*Spoiler*: __ 



Alladin is going God-Mode in this fight.  Look at him manipulate the dhorrs and reils at the end of the chapter.


----------



## Kellogem (Feb 3, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



good old Aladdin.. is their anyone actually rooting for him? I'd like Judar to wipe that smug grin from the chibis face...

Judar became such a high class ice/lightning user with all those ice tornado dragon things.. hope it wont end here.. 

also thought Aladdin is giving Judar the middle finger for a moment..


----------



## Rukia (Feb 3, 2015)

Judar is more insufferable.  He should have died a long time ago as far as I am concerned.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 3, 2015)

Still no chapter 254........Why is another group not picking this up?


----------



## ensoriki (Feb 3, 2015)

Rukia said:


> Judar is more insufferable.  He should have died a long time ago as far as I am concerned.



Not a fan of any of the Magi's right now.
Actually I don't even know wtf their relevance is half the time because the whole "magi's lead Kings?" basically doesn't happen except for Judar & Hakuryuu...who don't seem to have a real plan of attack.


All I care for is the growth and relationships of the Kings candidates and their households.


----------



## son_michael (Feb 3, 2015)

Honestly my favorite Character is Sinbad, I want him to be the guy that conquers everything for his own ambition but he's not either good or evil, he would just be driven by desire.

Yes Aladin and Alibaba can stop him, that's fine, I just want to see Sinbad's awesomeness.


----------



## Vandal Savage (Feb 3, 2015)

Scheherazade was best magi in terms of actually sticking with the original purpose but then she had to get replaced with that lame ass Titus. I really wanted to see her take on some of this later stuff. I've always been more interested in the mystery surrounding Yunan rather than Yunan himself. Judar is cool because he doesn't give a darn and is doing his own interpretation of the Magi and King thing with Hakuryuu. Aladdin I generally like but just never cared for him choosing Alibaba as his king candidate or this naive belief in thinking all of the king candidates in the current era were going to drop everything if he showed them what happened to Alma Torran.  

The Magi could be handled better but the Sinbads, the Kouens, and the Hakuryuus of the world make up for it.



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Still no chapter 254........Why is another group not picking this up?



Sense is supposedly having issues with their RAW provider but I don't know why anyone else hasn't done it yet. Probably wanted to give it some time to see if they get it together or not.


----------



## LordPerucho (Feb 4, 2015)

Chapter is up already, the ending, Nice counter by Aladdin at the end of the chapter.


----------



## Kellogem (Feb 4, 2015)

dont get this depravity thing..

anyone can fall into depravity? where is the point where they die like Dunya from it? by using the black rukh?

thought Dunya died cause of the black metal vessel, and because she lost it, but Hakuryuu has a normal one so it cant be that..

what would be the definition of depravity I dont remember..


----------



## ensoriki (Feb 4, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> what would be the definition of depravity I dont remember..



By denying the fate of the world you remove your self from the great flow (the system of Solomon).
The original state of the Rukh is black, so other words falling into depravity brings your Rukh to their original state....which is controlled by Ill Illah.

Ill Illah is apparently mad as fuck, so when you remove your Rukh from the world you take in that anger given before Solomon took control of the Rukh, Ill Illah controlled everyones lives. They weren't ruled by anger, but back then Ill Illah wasn't forcibly locked away in a pocket dimension either.

People with Black Rukh who die go to Ill Illah. Hence Ithnan and his wife being pissed because Solomon basically locked their sons Rukh with Ill Illah.

So Sinbad has half his Rukh controlled by Ill Illah and half his Rukh in the great flow. How I don't even know, but I presume this gives him all he needs.


----------



## Kellogem (Feb 4, 2015)

ensoriki said:


> By denying the fate of the world you remove your self from the great flow (the system of Solomon).
> The original state of the Rukh is black, so other words falling into depravity brings your Rukh to their original state....which is controlled by Ill Illah.
> 
> Ill Illah is apparently mad as fuck, so when you remove your Rukh from the world you take in that anger given before Solomon took control of the Rukh, Ill Illah controlled everyones lives. They weren't ruled by anger, but back then Ill Illah wasn't forcibly locked away in a pocket dimension either.
> ...



so anyone can fall into depravity or is it some magical stuff?

cause I cant see regular people who hate destiny having those symptoms and deaths Dunya and apparently Hakuryuu would have... but anyone can deny the fate of the world I guess, but removing yourself from the great flow require magical knowledge?


----------



## ensoriki (Feb 4, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> so anyone can fall into depravity or is it some magical stuff?
> 
> cause I cant see regular people who hate destiny having those symptoms and deaths Dunya and apparently Hakuryuu would have... but anyone can deny the fate of the world I guess, but removing yourself from the great flow require magical knowledge?



You don't need magical knowledge. Look at Cassim.
Look at the Goi suffering in Mogametts basement.

Curse the way of the world, your fate and you get removed from the Rukh like a kid acting up in class.
A lot of people probably aren't happy about destiny or don't think about it. They don't outright reject it.
You're basically rejecting Solomons system, so you aren't a part of it anymore. You still have Rukh because if you didn't you wouldn't exist from what I understand of the worlds mechanics. Simply put Solomons Great Flow isn't the real state of the Rukh so if you cast it aside, you get the original Black Rukh. Falling in to depravity is basically just going "back to normal" where normal is being controlled by a giant mass of Rukh that is particularly angry.
I mean hell look at Solomons crew, they thought they had free will but they didn't.
Presumably only David really had power and he set things in motion to make the world what it is. The schemer.


----------



## Vandal Savage (Feb 4, 2015)

It was a very good chapter. I'm kind of surprised Judar didn't know what magic Aladdin was using. Dude, you saw the flashback like everyone else did! I know "you" thought it was boring but how do you miss what was obviously Solomon's signature magic and the fact Aladdin is now using it as his son.


----------



## Kellogem (Feb 4, 2015)

ensoriki said:


> You don't need magical knowledge. Look at Cassim.
> Look at the Goi suffering in Mogametts basement.
> 
> Curse the way of the world, your fate and you get removed from the Rukh like a kid acting up in class.
> ...



all of those examples had to do with magic though... cassim got that whatever weapon from Al Thamen iirc, and didnt he turn into a black djinn because of it? was only watching the anime at time, so Im not sure, but I doubt any bitter guy could turn to black djinn. the people in Magnostadt took part in Mogametts experiments.

so some average joe would just curse his destiny really bad, would he whither into a black corpse like Dunya? somehow I doubt it.. 

it really feels like falling into depravity is exclusive for magic related people..

also at what point does someone die from depravity? if they run out of energy or what? or is it like cancer? Al Thamen guys look pretty fine even though all of them should be in depravity..

I think if someone in depravity can consume black rukh or whatever at least they wont die from side effects even if Il Illah get their soul once they die.


----------



## ensoriki (Feb 5, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> all of those examples had to do with magic though... cassim got that whatever weapon from Al Thamen iirc, and didnt he turn into a black djinn because of it? was only watching the anime at time, so Im not sure, but I doubt any bitter guy could turn to black djinn. the people in Magnostadt took part in Mogametts experiments.
> 
> so some average joe would just curse his destiny really bad, would he whither into a black corpse like Dunya? somehow I doubt it..
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 












As I see it, it's literally an internal struggle. Aladdin can help you by *showing* you something with his magic, but the change is all within yourself.

Ithnan said they were causing all the wars and strife in the world to make people reject Destiny.
Given that Magic is the Rukh and the rukh is part of everything...you could say its magic, but again since rukh is part of everything you can change your rukh yourself.

Dunya for instance became depraved when Isaac died. Not with magic



Dunya didn't die because of depravity she died because of the dark metal vessel.


----------



## Kellogem (Feb 5, 2015)

I see.. so depravity is just strong hatred towards the world or god for the ordinary people (as most of them wouldnt even know about destiny, but for some reason the people of this manga tend to blame it, even though this makes me wonder what about those who dont hate destiny or life, but just a specific individual or group of people)..



ensoriki said:


> Dunya didn't die because of depravity she died because of the dark metal vessel.



but than why would Hakuryuu die the same way as implied this chapter, even though he is in depravity he doesnt use a dark metal vessel?

or if he wouldnt, I dont see why bring up Dunyas death now, if its hardly related to depravity itself..

also...can someone use black rukh or black metal vessels without being in depravity?


----------



## Vandal Savage (Feb 5, 2015)

Keep in mind that Alibaba isn't the one with extensive knowledge on rukh and actual magic-related things here, Aladdin is. He has never seen the result of someone falling into depravity without using a black metal vessel so all he has to draw from are the results he has seen from the black metal vessel users (Cassim and Dunya). In reality, Hakuryuu is only risking having his rukh separated from the flow that Solomon created when he dies and it going to Ill Illah instead. Falling into depravity itself isn't accelerating his death or anything. Alibaba is still trying to persuade him partly based on emotion and partly based on what he knows they both saw happened with Dunya.

As for your second question, I'm going to say no. Black and white rukh are two opposing forces and both of them normally hinder each other if being invoked at the same time. Ithnan's trick he used against Alibaba and Sinbad shows this. Well, in Alibaba's case mainly because he has no signs of depravity in him.

We didn't see black rukh from Sinbad until we found out he was halfway fallen which is why Ithnan's trick didn't actually do anything to him. Judar is a Magi so while he is depraved and primarily uses black rukh, he is still loved by the rukh itself so should theoretically be able to use both types like Sinbad. Outside of these two, it should be one or the other.

For black metal vessel users, I don't think they can. Otherwise, Al Thamen would probably give out more black metal vessels to disrupt the balance of the world more. I'd imagine you have to be firmly into depravity for a black metal vessel to even properly respond.


----------



## ensoriki (Feb 5, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> I see.. so depravity is just strong hatred towards the world or god for the ordinary people (as most of them wouldnt even know about destiny, but for some reason the people of this manga tend to blame it, even though this makes me wonder what about those who dont hate destiny or life, but just a specific individual or group of people)..
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Because when you die normally you go to the great flow. Which is the system Solomon set up.
Do you recall who owns the original Rukh and as such who you "go to" if you die without white rukh?


----------



## Kellogem (Feb 5, 2015)

ensoriki said:


> Because when you die normally you go to the great flow. Which is the system Solomon set up.
> Do you recall who owns the original Rukh and as such who you "go to" if you die without white rukh?



I was referring to how they brought up how Dunya died which is pointless if Hakuryuu wouldnt die like that, they wasnt talking about where they go, but the way she died, turning black and dried up and shit..


about Alibaba not being an expert in depravity and magic and bringing it up to persuade Hakuryuu, it makes sense... but I'd expect Judar to know stuff about it and maybe giving Hakuryuu a heads up. does Hakuryuu even realize he is playing into Al Thamen and his mothers hand?

I wonder how Sinbad can be half into depravity, what state of mind would he be in? having a dual personality, and one of them hates destiny, and the other not, or what?

maybe he wants to take Solomons place..


----------



## luffy no haki (Feb 5, 2015)

Or simply being half in depravity make s him do what he is doing, trying to achieve something good through this seemingly disgusting methods. In the adventure of sinbad he is pretty sly but doesn?t seem twisted enough yet to go around controlling people.

What reminds me, is anyone else bored? i mean the developments have been giving things to the story, but it?s been just plain boring for a while now.

Right now I am only waiting fo r Fanalis Corps or Kougyoku to appear


----------



## Kellogem (Feb 5, 2015)

luffy no haki said:


> Or simply being half in depravity make s him do what he is doing, trying to achieve something good through this seemingly disgusting methods. In the adventure of sinbad he is pretty sly but doesn?t seem twisted enough yet to go around controlling people.



I dont think slyness would someone half falling depravity, he would have to think something about the whole destiny thing, otherwise everyone not 100% satisfied with his life would be like him..


also its a bit weird to me they like to put it like depravity is like a synonym of evil or something... I get it its you are fallen in depravity you are most likely mad, but that shouldnt make it the other way around as well.. like a happy mass murderer or sociopath who is not hateful should have nothing to do with depravity, yet still evil..kind of like Mogamett.. remember the white rukh swirling around him while he was very fucked up.

Sindbad doesnt look very hateful or bitter to me towards anyone, just cunning.





> What reminds me, is anyone else bored? i mean the developments have been giving things to the story, but it?s been just plain boring for a while now.
> 
> Right now I am only waiting fo r Fanalis Corps or Kougyoku to appear



not me, I think Magi is pretty good right now.. I miss Morgiana and Al Thamen though..


----------



## Vandal Savage (Feb 5, 2015)

luffy no haki said:


> What reminds me, is anyone else bored? i mean the developments have been giving things to the story, but it?s been just plain boring for a while now.



Last time I was bored with Magi was probably somewhere in the Magnostadt arc when there was heavy focus on that lame ass Titus coming to grips with his fate. Since the war happened I've loved pretty much everything that has been going on.


----------



## son_michael (Feb 5, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> I was referring to how they brought up how Dunya died which is pointless if Hakuryuu wouldnt die like that, they wasnt talking about where they go, but the way she died, turning black and dried up and shit..
> 
> 
> about Alibaba not being an expert in depravity and magic and bringing it up to persuade Hakuryuu, it makes sense... but I'd expect Judar to know stuff about it and maybe giving Hakuryuu a heads up. does Hakuryuu even realize he is playing into Al Thamen and his mothers hand?
> ...



Sinbad is said to be a special existence or something so I wonder if he has white and black rukh in him since he was born, maybe the reason he is half fallen is simply because he has used that black Rukh more times then he should have.


I suspect that in order to save his friends/subjects he had to tap into a darker power and thus he fell halfway, the love of his people is probably what keeps him from giving in to the depravity.


----------



## Kellogem (Feb 5, 2015)

son_michael said:


> I suspect that in order to save his friends/subjects he had to tap into a darker power and thus he fell halfway, the love of his people is probably what keeps him from giving in to the depravity.



thats too sweet, I hope he is a twisted friend who wants to be god..


----------



## ensoriki (Feb 5, 2015)

Its because he's david.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Feb 5, 2015)

It is me or Ohtaka is getting better with the fighting panels?


----------



## Cocidius (Feb 6, 2015)

Magi continues to be epic.

Hakuryuu- Beast of a character
Judar- Please give the imp a real good ass whooping that he needs
Alibaba- Please die already or get the same as ^ by Haku 




ensoriki said:


> Its because he's david.



Are you talking about Hakuryuu? I think Chibi had a point about him repeating david's actions.


----------



## yo586 (Feb 6, 2015)

By far the best thing about this manga is that the antagonists are at least as charismatic and articulate in their cause as the heroes. I love me some good well-reasoned villainy.


----------



## ensoriki (Feb 6, 2015)

Cocidius said:


> Are you talking about Hakuryuu? I think Chibi had a point about him repeating david's actions.



Sinbad.
He said he was already cursed at the same time he is revealed to be half-fallen.

Who the hell does that sound like?
Elder David...Ill Illahs prodigal son, that presumably betrayed him to give Solomon the tool he needed to see Ill Illah and seal him away.
I'd be surprised if Sinbad isn't the second coming of David.


----------



## Kellogem (Feb 9, 2015)

no chapter this week, right?


----------



## crystalblade13 (Feb 9, 2015)

luffy no haki said:


> What reminds me, is anyone else bored? i mean the developments have been giving things to the story, but it?s been just plain boring for a while now.
> 
> Right now I am only waiting fo r Fanalis Corps or Kougyoku to appear



Fuck no. The series has been the best thing ever since around the world exploration arc. It's the best manga I've ever read. Just my opinion of course. But the world building, foreshadowing, themes, characters, interactions, action, and comedy are all basically flawless.



Malvingt2 said:


> It is me or Ohtaka is getting better with the fighting panels?



It's not just you. It seems to be the opinion of the majority of the fanbase on multiple different sites that the gyokuen fight awakened some sort of epic action side of the ohtaka. If this current fight is anything to go off of, it seems that she's permanently improved in that aspect.


----------



## RBL (Feb 9, 2015)

is it worth reading this manga? i've really tried to read/watch new mangas, but i just can't. tried nanatzu no taisa, but had to dropped it, a lot of fanservice, i tried magi like 1 year and a half ago, but never grew on me (anime) might as well try it again, has it gotten any better?


----------



## Darth (Feb 9, 2015)

Cows Dic said:


> is it worth reading this manga? i've really tried to read/watch new mangas, but i just can't. tried nanatzu no taisa, but had to dropped it, a lot of fanservice, i tried magi like 1 year and a half ago, but never grew on me (anime) might as well try it again, has it gotten any better?



I haven't seen the anime myself, but the manga's pretty good. It can drag on at times and occasionally it does get a bit stale but i'd definitely still say it's worth reading.


----------



## Vandal Savage (Feb 9, 2015)

Cows Dic said:


> is it worth reading this manga? i've really tried to read/watch new mangas, but i just can't. tried nanatzu no taisa, but had to dropped it, a lot of fanservice, i tried magi like 1 year and a half ago, but never grew on me (anime) might as well try it again, has it gotten any better?



Almost half of the first Magi anime anime is filler or so I've been told so the manga should be better to read. It doesn't have the amount of fan service that Nanatsu no Taizai does but still has enough action and comedy to go around in the earlier chapters.


----------



## RBL (Feb 9, 2015)

thx gais, gonna try it then, i usually start watching the anime, then follow the manga, so i'm gonna search how to skip the fillers first


----------



## Palm Siberia (Feb 10, 2015)

Well the dub is coming what about season 3 ;-;


----------



## Darth (Feb 11, 2015)

So the new chapter was cool. Gave some welcome exposition on Solomon's Wisdom.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 11, 2015)

Judar kick his ass some more please.


----------



## Vandal Savage (Feb 11, 2015)

Chapter 255

I'm glad we learned a bit more about Solomon's wisdom. Judar having Mogamett's knowledge is already a significant boost but if Aladdin has access to both world's magic knowledge holy fuck. The things he could be able to do in another year's time of training would be off the charts. 

As for Judar, I'm disappointed. Its one thing if Al-Thamen springs something on you later down the line while you are going against your destiny but don't actively continue their work in making Ill Illah descend. It's incredibly stupid and moves you from the grey zone of wanting to do things your way to indisputable threat zone where you are going to end existence for shits and giggles. I mean damn at least Arba was a devout follower of Ill Illah so I understand her obsession with bringing him into the current world.


----------



## Ftg07 (Feb 11, 2015)

get rekt.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 11, 2015)

^Yea can't wait for Judar to smash his cute face in.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Feb 11, 2015)

Very good chapter.. Love is a powerful feeling.


----------



## Quuon (Feb 11, 2015)

Not bad, Aladdin.


----------



## ensoriki (Feb 11, 2015)

Jetstorm said:


> As for Judar, I'm disappointed. Its one thing if Al-Thamen springs something on you later down the line while you are going against your destiny but don't actively continue their work in making Ill Illah descend. It's incredibly stupid and moves you from the grey zone of wanting to do things your way to indisputable threat zone where you are going to end existence for shits and giggles. I mean damn at least Arba was a devout follower of Ill Illah so I understand her obsession with bringing him into the current world.



You forget he is depraved? Ill Illah already has control.


----------



## Vandal Savage (Feb 11, 2015)

ensoriki said:


> You forget he is depraved? Ill Illah already has control.



He's always been depraved but never indicated he had the same goals as Al-Thamen. It isn't like he didn't know the "geezers" were worshiping a dark God and something bad was going to happen to everyone when said God finally appeared. Don't get me wrong, I highly suspected he could go this route but was hoping he wouldn't so the conflict with Aladdin and company wouldn't be so inevitably lame.

Although Ohtaka has earned my trust enough to believe she can pull it off in a fashion that won't disappoint me.


----------



## ensoriki (Feb 11, 2015)

Jetstorm said:


> He's always been depraved but never indicated he had the same goals as Al-Thamen. It isn't like he didn't know the "geezers" were worshiping a dark God and something bad was going to happen to everyone when said God finally appeared. Don't get me wrong, I highly suspected he could go this route but was hoping he wouldn't so the conflict with Aladdin and company wouldn't be so inevitably lame.
> 
> Although Ohtaka has earned my trust enough to believe she can pull it off in a fashion that won't disappoint me.



They gave him control of Black Rukh back in Balbaad but he apparently didn't completely fall until the dungeon arc when that Djinn tried to save him and Hakuryuu and instead they fell.

Now that their main goal was achieved with Arba dead, it shouldn't come of any surprise. Remember the Alma Toran arc. Ill Illah guides the step of the people with his rukh.


----------



## Palm Siberia (Feb 14, 2015)

For those who care about the dub never heard anything from Erika Lindbeck...


----------



## Kellogem (Feb 17, 2015)

Link removed


----------



## Vandal Savage (Feb 17, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



I have to hand it to Aladdin. He is managing to hold on and make his fight with Judar go a lot better than expected. Then again I guess they both are still trying to acclimate to their new powers though it looks like Judar has been a bit ahead.

Oh fuck did Hakuryuu just Djinn Equip both Zagan and Belial at the same time?!  Loving that new form of his whether that is or isn't the case.


----------



## Kellogem (Feb 17, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



I guess Hakuryuus new DE is the reason we had a break.. drawing that shit must be so time consuming.. but it worth it. best DE design.

and there goes a leg.. can people regrow limbs in magi some way? I dont remember..


----------



## Ftg07 (Feb 18, 2015)

Damn Hakuryuu' new design 

Alibaba your leg


----------



## Darth (Feb 18, 2015)

new chapter's kinda late no?


----------



## Kellogem (Feb 24, 2015)

oh shit


*Spoiler*: __ 



both of them are about to fire their extreme magic or just Alibaba?

Hakuryuu should have 2, one for Belial one for Zagan no? even though he should have the magoi only for one..

since he is in Belial mode maybe Belial extreme magic is coming..

also Belial has such a douche ability..


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 24, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Get Rekt Alibaba.


----------



## Goud (Feb 24, 2015)

Any news on when the new chapter arrives?


----------



## santanico (Feb 25, 2015)

my alibaba


----------



## Kellogem (Feb 25, 2015)

ITT posts longer than 4 words are in deep discussion..


----------



## crystalblade13 (Feb 26, 2015)

I plan on it. But the more the merrier. And someone with some importance doing it would be good too. Not that I know anyone like that.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Feb 26, 2015)

wow.... someone lost a leg. :/


----------



## Vandal Savage (Feb 26, 2015)

Chapter 256 is out!


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 26, 2015)

I repeat get rekt Alibaba and you to Aladdin.


----------



## Vandal Savage (Feb 26, 2015)

Judar called Aladdin out on not being able to fully utilize Solomon's magic. I'm sure he would be way more concerned if Aladdin was capable of the ridiculous feats Solomon was pulling.

Ah, so the second form was just Belial's Djinn-Equip (fucking badass) but it looks like he can still manipulate Zagan's plants while in that form too. I guess its a result of Hakuryuu experimenting and realizing Belial's power can be used in tandem with other metal vessels.

lol Alibaba lost a leg. I want to see what mind fuck Hakuryuu pulls on him next chapter.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 26, 2015)

Belial is my new favorite Equip. 

Its boss as hell. Also now that Aladdin is not here, Hakuryuu should be able to mind fuck him enough to get a decisive blow on him.


----------



## Ice Cream (Feb 26, 2015)

Jetstorm said:


> Judar called Aladdin out on not being able to fully utilize Solomon's magic. I'm sure he would be way more concerned if Aladdin was capable of the ridiculous feats Solomon was pulling.
> 
> Ah, so the second form was just Belial's Djinn-Equip (fucking badass) but it looks like he can still manipulate Zagan's plants while in that form too. I guess its a result of Hakuryuu experimenting and realizing Belial's power can be used in tandem with other metal vessels.
> 
> *lol Alibaba lost a leg.* I want to see what mind fuck Hakuryuu pulls on him next chapter.




Wait, that part wasn't an illusion made by Belial?


----------



## santanico (Feb 26, 2015)

Alibaba and Aladdin will figure out how to whoop their asses


----------



## Vandal Savage (Feb 26, 2015)

Ice Cream said:


> Wait, that part wasn't an illusion made by Belial?



I figure it was Belial messing with his senses to the point he perceives and feels as if he lost a leg. No way Ohtaka would mutilate Alibaba like that. But in the one in a billion chance she does I wouldn't be able to hold back my shock and laughter.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 26, 2015)

Jetstorm said:


> I figure it was Belial messing with his senses to the point he perceives and feels as if he lost a leg. No way Ohtaka would mutilate Alibaba like that. But in the one in a billion chance she does I wouldn't be able to hold back my shock and laughter.



He will obviously get his leg back even if it is gone.


----------



## Rax (Feb 26, 2015)

Ima read it and likely be mad


----------



## LordPerucho (Feb 26, 2015)

Alibaba is trapped in a genjutsu, this seems as haxx as Kyouka Suigetsu.


----------



## santanico (Feb 26, 2015)

Hakuryuu has the best djinn


----------



## Kellogem (Feb 26, 2015)

I love Belials design, but I wish it would have more flashy powers...

if its just an illusion, whats the point of it? with a real blade, he could have cut off that leg for real..


*Spoiler*: __ 



of course I know the mechanism from the next chapter, and yeah, I dont see much of the point of turning your opponents into living puppets when with the same effort and an ordinary blade you could just cut them up 




I wonder what Bebials extreme magic would be like... super mindrape? illusion world? your body tearing itself apart?

also I hope that skeleton whatever would serve as a weapon and not just decoration..


----------



## Malvingt2 (Feb 26, 2015)

starr said:


> Hakuryuu has the best djinn



for now


----------



## Vandal Savage (Feb 27, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> He will obviously get his leg back even if it is gone.



I thought the same thing about Hakuryuu when he lost his arm because of Ithnan's attack with the black rukh. Although I think Alibaba is too "precious" to really have his leg cut off like this and have to settle for a replacement like Hakuryuu.



starr said:


> Hakuryuu has the best djinn



For now but Sinbad is still sitting on at least three more djinn that he has yet to use if I remember correctly. One or more of those could end up being just as deadly and powerful as what Hakuryuu is doing with Zagan and Belial.


----------



## Darth (Feb 27, 2015)

starr said:


> Hakuryuu has the best djinn



You dare compare that trash to Baal, the Djinn of Wrath and Heroes?


----------



## Shukumei (Feb 27, 2015)

Valefor's Djinn Equip is adorable


----------



## Kellogem (Feb 27, 2015)

so Alibaba is going to get another djinn I guess..

even thought Im not sure he isnt in such a shitty state cause he was holding back and surprise factor, but it feels like you got to have more djinn to get stronger is the direction the manga is going..


----------



## santanico (Feb 27, 2015)

it does seem that way. Having one djinn is laughable.


----------



## Vandal Savage (Feb 27, 2015)

I think Alibaba's magoi fusing with Cassim pretty much sealed it. The fact that Sinbad has seven and Kouen has three meant he was probably going to need at least two djinn in order to even stand a chance against those two. Hakuryuu recently obtaining Belial to pair with Zagan basically confirmed it. 

Amon alone isn't going to be enough for Alibaba to compete.


----------



## Rax (Feb 27, 2015)

>I guessed this chapter would upset me

And it fucking did


----------



## Darth (Feb 28, 2015)

Jetstorm said:


> I think Alibaba's magoi fusing with Cassim pretty much sealed it. The fact that Sinbad has seven and Kouen has three meant he was probably going to need at least two djinn in order to even stand a chance against those two. Hakuryuu recently obtaining Belial to pair with Zagan basically confirmed it.
> 
> Amon alone isn't going to be enough for Alibaba to compete.



Tbh, I don't think it's about the number of djinn, but more so about combat experience, fighting prowess, martial strength, and mastery over your djinn equip. 

That being said, Alababa is still leagues behind  Kouen and Sinbad. And one or two more djinn won't change that


----------



## Vandal Savage (Feb 28, 2015)

Darth said:


> Tbh, I don't think it's about the number of djinn, but more so about combat experience, fighting prowess, martial strength, and mastery over your djinn equip.
> 
> That being said, Alababa is still leagues behind  Kouen and Sinbad. And one or two more djinn won't change that



It isn't solely about the number of djinn but having more does seem to matter when it comes to battle situations. We've seen Sinbad, Kouen, and Hakuryuu switch over to their other djinn when their primary ones weren't having the desired effect or to switch strategies. 

If Alibaba's primary mode of offense is to rely on Amon's elemental abilities and blade I think the number of djinn matters in this case. The heat from Amon's Sword will allow Alibaba to cut metal vessels but if he comes across an elemental weakness like Vinea's water or Valefor's Ice (yes I'm giving Sinbad the edge on that one) he ends up at a larger disadvantage if Amon is all he has to rely on. Alibaba just won elemental rock-paper-scissors against Zagan's plants and if Hakuryuu didn't have Belial to fall back on this situation would probably look drastically different at the moment.

Now if Alibaba isn't actually going to use his djinn more creatively like the other three have then yeah I agree adding more won't close that gap nearly as much.


----------



## Kellogem (Feb 28, 2015)

Id prefer Alibaba to be super pro at using that one djinn he has... 

also Id prefer not to have arcs dedicated to him getting more djinns, or getting them off screen and pulling them out of his ass..

if he is at elemental disadvantage, he should concentrate on close range swordfight, I guess having a water djinn wouldnt matter much if the user doesnt have the time to use its abilities.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 28, 2015)

If Alibaba is to be the True King of this World he needs more then just being able to Spam Fire everywhere.  

Needs some type of Utility


----------



## santanico (Feb 28, 2015)

I'd like to see Alibaba outsmart Hakuryuu using strategy



Kell?gem said:


> Id prefer Alibaba to be super pro at using that one djinn he has...
> 
> also Id prefer not to have arcs dedicated to him getting more djinns, or getting them off screen and pulling them out of his ass..
> 
> if he is at elemental disadvantage, he should concentrate on close range swordfight, I guess having a water djinn wouldnt matter much if the user doesnt have the time to use its abilities.



this


----------



## Rokudaime (Feb 28, 2015)

Alibaba should use Zankai no Tachi with Amon.

Ash skeletons with fire > ALL.


----------



## Kellogem (Mar 1, 2015)

Rokudaime said:


> Alibaba should use Zankai no Tachi with Amon.
> 
> Ash skeletons with fire > ALL.



but can they fly?

Alibaba and his opponent fighting in the sky while skeletons are cheering from the ground..,


----------



## Malvingt2 (Mar 2, 2015)

New Chapter is out: Chapter 29

this fight is awesome. Alibaba is going all out.


----------



## Rax (Mar 2, 2015)

Hakuryuu  gets even more edge lord


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 2, 2015)

Alibaba is actually doing pretty good.


----------



## santanico (Mar 2, 2015)

Hakuryuu is scary


----------



## LordPerucho (Mar 2, 2015)

If Alibaba wins, Hakuryuu credibility goes back to 0.


----------



## Kellogem (Mar 2, 2015)

the spoiler pics from 258, holy shit...


----------



## santanico (Mar 2, 2015)

^where   

edit: nvmd

oh my lawd


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 2, 2015)

Hakuryuu should win.

Thing is if he does then someone has to come save Alibaba from death. Unless Hakuryuu goes the mind rape route and makes him his slave.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Mar 2, 2015)

I just read the spoilers... wow


----------



## Kellogem (Mar 2, 2015)

best fight in the manga..

and some people said magi went downhill.. 

nope.


----------



## santanico (Mar 2, 2015)

This fight was the best. Though I don't think it's over yet


----------



## crystalblade13 (Mar 2, 2015)

I NEED the chinese raws! PLEASE I need to see how THAT happened

I mean damn. I used to say that magi's one and only minor flaw was that its fights werent as epic as some other shonen, but since gyokuen thats really changed. Although magi has always been superior to other shounens in pretty much everything else lol.

this recent trend of epic fights just confirms it as the  best manga ever for me.


----------



## Vandal Savage (Mar 2, 2015)

Malvingt2 said:


> New Chapter is out: bragging
> 
> this fight is awesome. Alibaba is going all out.



Belial really is a nasty metal vessel like Judar said. I give credit to Alibaba for fighting through it as his body is failing him at the spots he has been hit.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Mar 2, 2015)

Yeah, im glad he got fed up with the shit hakuryuu was putting him through and put on his "ok, thats freaking it" face. Alibaba doesnt get enough credit sometimes. He wrecks too.


----------



## Vandal Savage (Mar 2, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> the spoiler pics from 258, holy shit...



I just checked them and good lord Ohtaka is merciless. I can't wait for that chapter to come out.


----------



## santanico (Mar 2, 2015)

crystalblade13 said:


> Yeah, im glad he got fed up with the shit hakuryuu was putting him through and put on his "ok, thats freaking it" face. Alibaba doesnt get enough credit sometimes. He wrecks too.



agreed 

I can imagine somehow Hakuryuu will be healed, Alibaba on the other hand is really going to need his friends


----------



## Rai (Mar 3, 2015)

258 Chinese scan:


----------



## Rax (Mar 3, 2015)

I will resist your spoilers :ignoramus


----------



## Rai (Mar 3, 2015)

You can't


----------



## santanico (Mar 3, 2015)

resisting is futile


----------



## Rax (Mar 3, 2015)

I'm already resisting them though :ignoramus


----------



## santanico (Mar 3, 2015)

.


----------



## Kellogem (Mar 3, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



they fucked up each other so much.. did it worth it, Hakuryuu??

but he wasnt in that bad state I thought he is going to be, when I saw the spoiler pics I thought his whole body got burned black.. instead "just" the legs..

hope Mogamet and Solomon has some fine healing magic in store, cause they are going to need them..

also dat art this chapter... the extreme magics were so epic.


----------



## santanico (Mar 3, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



I too thought he was burnt up, a bit disappointed


----------



## Gunners (Mar 3, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Ali Baba taxed that ass.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 3, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Whats going on?

One Panel Alibaba looks really fucked up. Another one at the end of the chapter he looks about the same as before they both used Extreme magic on each other.


----------



## Kellogem (Mar 3, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 




when did he look really fucked up?

he only got light injuries not counting belials limb severing in the whole fight, and Hakuryuus extreme magic is not something fucking up the body, but probably his mind, he always looked fine.

hakuryuu had the physical rape, alibaba the mindrape.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 3, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



I don't know. Just thought this panel made it seem that Alibaba got it real bad so i was thinking the Extreme magic had a physical portion to it, but the last panel not so much 


So your right Alibaba got the mind rape like you said. Which is why he is just hanging in the sky all limp.


----------



## Kellogem (Mar 3, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



thats hakuryuu, notice the missing legs and Alibaba still holding his sword..

though now that I look at it, he has the wings and shit missing, and even looks like naked not to mention charred. next page he is in djinn equip again..weird.

I guess its supposed to be reflecting his inner self, like how he feels, or the mangaka just fucked up? it looks like she intended to make it like hauryuu is laying on the ground in pain badly burned, than make him floating in djinn equip only losing his legs the next page.


----------



## Rax (Mar 3, 2015)

I WON'T EVER OPEN THEM


----------



## santanico (Mar 3, 2015)

I need this chapter. nao.


----------



## Rax (Mar 3, 2015)

I'm worried for Alibaba now...


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 3, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Yea i think your right just ignore me 

Poor alibaba


----------



## Rax (Mar 3, 2015)

I almost clicked on that spoiler by mistake.

Luckily DD's sig saved me :ignoramus


----------



## ensoriki (Mar 3, 2015)

Wow did not expect Aladdin to die in the crossfire. I was like wtf is this Mew vs Mewtwo and Aladdin is Ash? Crazy shit. To be real it feels kinda forced to kill him and hes probably not dead but whatever, here is hoping.

They'll probably revive Aladdin though anyways, you know cus Otaka won't just kill the chibi off but whatever. Cool chapter, im pretty happy since I don't like Aladdin anyways.

Hope Judar pisses on Aladdins corpse, but probably can't since he lost an arm saving Hakuryuu.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 3, 2015)

Judar can kill Aladdin with two hands tied behind his back.


----------



## santanico (Mar 3, 2015)

ensoriki said:


> Wow did not expect Aladdin to die in the crossfire. I was like wtf is this Mew vs Mewtwo and Aladdin is Ash? Crazy shit. To be real it feels kinda forced to kill him and hes probably not dead but whatever, here is hoping.
> 
> They'll probably revive Aladdin though anyways, you know cus Otaka won't just kill the chibi off but whatever. Cool chapter, im pretty happy since I don't like Aladdin anyways.
> 
> Hope Judar pisses on Aladdins corpse, but probably can't since he lost an arm saving Hakuryuu.



ehhhh                     ?


----------



## Rokudaime (Mar 4, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



...Hakuryuu, despite who had trained hard and mastered 2 djinn got wrecked by the weakest clown that only have 1 Djinn....

Even if Alibaba lost here, Hakuryuu's credibility was damaged greatly. Kouen En will stomp Hakuryuu if they really got into a fight. 

I wonder, would things change if Alibaba actually trained for 4 months instead of worrying whether he got girlfriend or not.


----------



## Kellogem (Mar 4, 2015)

Rokudaime said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



ehh, I dont think Alibaba is as weak as you make him out to be..

he is stronger than the rest except Kouen, Sidbad, Hakuryuu and maybe Muu I think... and those guys have multiple djinns (except Muu), so its not really fair.

Hakuryuu without Belial would be dead against an Alibaba going all out.

also Kouen would stomp Hakuryuu, but Hakuryuu and Judar together 2 vs 1, not so much, and Im not sure its so important for Hakuryuu to beat Kouen 1 on 1, just like he didnt mind the help against Gyokuen either.


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## Rokudaime (Mar 4, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> *ehh, I dont think Alibaba is as weak as you make him out to be..*
> 
> he is stronger than the rest except Kouen, Sidbad, Hakuryuu and maybe Muu I think... and those guys have multiple djinns (except Muu), so its not really fair.
> 
> ...



Well, when Hakuryuu said that he will kill Alibaba in few previous chapters, almost all the anime forums that I visited said the similar things; get rekt Alibaba, the king of the comedian. . Hakuryuu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Alibaba and etc.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 4, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> ehh, I dont think Alibaba is as weak as you make him out to be..
> 
> *he is stronger than the rest except Kouen, Sidbad, Hakuryuu and maybe Muu I think... and those guys have multiple djinns (except Muu), so its not really fair.
> *
> ...



NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. 

Alibaba aint that strong. 

Muu takes him to the cleaners.


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## Kellogem (Mar 4, 2015)

Rokudaime said:


> Well, when Hakuryuu said that he will kill Alibaba in few previous chapters, almost all the anime forums that I visited said the similar things; get rekt Alibaba, the king of the comedian. . Hakuryuu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Alibaba and etc.



thats true, but more for storytelling reasons and because people wanted alibaba to receive a one sided beating, not because there was a reason to assume he is so damn weak compared to hakuryuu..




> NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
> 
> Alibaba aint that strong.
> 
> Muu takes him to the cleaners.



what I meant is that Kouen, Sidbad, Hakuryuu and maybe Muu are stronger than him, but he is stronger than the other Kou brothers (Kouha? Koumei? I have a hard time memorizing their names) Kougyouku and Hakuei

but now that I think about it, it was said Muu can only have one or 2 attacks in djinn equip, and run out fast and Alibaba stopped him before, so actually I think he is stronger than Muu.

that would make him the strongest with one djinn imo.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 4, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> thats true, but more for storytelling reasons and because people wanted alibaba to receive a one sided beating, not because there was a reason to assume he is so damn weak compared to hakuryuu..
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Water>Fire bro.


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## Goud (Mar 4, 2015)

Muu is strong, but indeed only lasts a short time.

Kouen is definitely still stronger than both Alibaba and Hakuryuu, but that's to be expected. He's older, more experienced and has three Djinns.

Alibaba is fairly strong, and he has/had an advantage against Hakuryuu's Zagan (you know, fire > plants) and Belial was noted to lack physical striking force, thus being completely reliant on its ability to actually land a hit.


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## Kellogem (Mar 4, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Water>Fire bro.



I know that, but Alibaba still has the option to go for CQC, like he did with hakuryuu in the first half of the battle...

in that case Im not sure Kougyoku has the skills Hakuryuu have and wouldnt get cut down, or have her metal vessel destroyed...or more like Im sure she would from what saw from her CQC skills.


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## Vandal Savage (Mar 4, 2015)

We still have to see what the rest of the metal vessel users from the seven seas alliance can do before we outright claim Alibaba is the strongest king vessel with one djinn. Some of those guys have had their djinn way back when Sinbad was still a kid and have way more experience to draw upon. 

But as for what we have actually seen, Alibaba definitely isn't the weakest or anything. I think he beats Kouha but Koumei can probably battle field remove him or do something else creative with Dantalion's magic. That one could go either way I think. Same for Kougyoku but I think the elemental advantages are more the reason for that than anything else. Sinbad, Kouen, and Muu are still above him.


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## Kellogem (Mar 4, 2015)

Jetstorm said:


> We still have to see what the rest of the metal vessel users from the seven seas alliance can do before we outright claim Alibaba is the strongest king vessel with one djinn. Some of those guys have had their djinn way back when Sinbad was still a kid and have way more experience to draw upon.



thats true, but in the sindbad manga sindbad whooped that old lance guys ass despite being much younger and inexperienced, so Im not sure things like experience have a big relevance in this manga, I was expecting a big fight from that guy as well, yet he was pretty shit.



> But as for what we have actually seen, Alibaba definitely isn't the weakest or anything. I think he beats Kouha but Koumei can probably battle field remove him or do something else creative with Dantalion's magic. That one could go either way I think. Same for Kougyoku but I think the elemental advantages are more the reason for that than anything else. Sinbad, Kouen, and Muu are still above him.



not sure about Muu, he blocked his probably strongest strike, and he can attack like 2 times in that state... if Alibaba could block that one, he can probably do any of his attacks, as long as he can react to it.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 4, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> *thats true, but in the sindbad manga sindbad whooped that old lance guys ass despite being much younger and inexperienced, so Im not sure things like experience have a big relevance in this manga, I was expecting a big fight from that guy as well, yet he was pretty shit.*
> 
> 
> 
> not sure about Muu, he blocked his probably strongest strike, and he can attack like 2 times in that state... if Alibaba could block that one, he can probably do any of his attacks, as long as he can react to it.



This is true.

But should keep in mind that guy could not do a full Djinn equip. While Sinbad could. 

So that was just a mis-match. Sinbad is currently fighting the Mother of one of his household members are they are fighting equally for the time being in there full Djinn equip forms.


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## Kellogem (Mar 4, 2015)

well, I wonder why couldnt that old fart learn full body djinn equip, the lazy bastard...

btw do you guys think Alibaba is going to give more of his underli.. erm, fodder friends a household vessel?

like the burned pirate guy, or his girlfriend..

(hmm, so many badly burned guys in this manga... fire is serious business in magi unlike nardo)


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## santanico (Mar 4, 2015)

you guys underestimate Alibaba


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## crystalblade13 (Mar 5, 2015)

Yeah. Most really do underestimate Alibaba. 
*Spoiler*: __ 



I thought hakuryuu would win more difinitively, but just cause of plot really. 




Alibaba has magoi manipulation at a high level, has ALWAYS been a great swordsman, is fairly creative in battle, is very fast , and has the ability to destroy djinn stars \ vessels.


*Spoiler*: __ 



And now he seemingly has a very powerful SECOND extreme magic, which is a first for the series I think.


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## OS (Mar 7, 2015)

Question.

I hear the series has gotten good again. I dropped it around the flashback arc. So I'm wondering if it's worth picking up again.


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## Kellogem (Mar 7, 2015)

it is, though I always liked it, so my opinion might be irrelevant, its definitely better than in alma toran.. maybe even better than magnosdadt arc.


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## OS (Mar 7, 2015)

I wasn't exactly a fan of both.


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## Dragonus Nesha (Mar 7, 2015)

It definitely is work picking back up, not that I feel it was ever worth completely dropping.

What was it that pushed you off during the flashback arc?


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## OS (Mar 7, 2015)

I was just bored of reading it. The pacing felt really slow.


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## Kellogem (Mar 7, 2015)

than you are going to be satisfied since its much faster paced now..


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## Vandal Savage (Mar 7, 2015)

OS said:


> Question.
> 
> I hear the series has gotten good again. I dropped it around the flashback arc. So I'm wondering if it's worth picking up again.



It always gets me how so many different parts of the Magi fandom hate different arcs. 

I've loved almost every second of it but this arc has been especially great so I'd say it is worth it.


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## Drakor (Mar 8, 2015)

Geeze...Valefor has such a disgusting power

[substitutescans]Kagamigami Chapter 1: The Shikigami User and the Great Detective


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## Darth (Mar 8, 2015)

It's basically a "stall until I win" ability. Definitely not for use on the battlefield, but good against individual opponents who talk too much.


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## The_Evil (Mar 8, 2015)

"I'll never forget the events of last night either." - Goddammit Sinbad, the way you say it, people might misunderstand the situation.


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## crystalblade13 (Mar 8, 2015)

Jetstorm said:


> It always gets me how so many different parts of the Magi fandom hate different arcs.
> 
> I've loved almost every second of it but this arc has been especially great so I'd say it is worth it.



I too have enjoyed every single second of the series so it baffles me how done arcs get flack. I mean, I get that some people didn't like that the mains were gone for alma torran, but if they'de just read it and see how important for the series it is and how well it's written, them I doubt they'de be disappointed. Lots of the alma torran characters were interesting in their own right as well.


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## Catalyst75 (Mar 10, 2015)

Magi 259 Raw:

Chapter 62


*Spoiler*: __ 



So while Alibaba took Hakuryuu's legs, Hakuryuu managed to stab Belial's scythe straight through Alibaba's head.  

And Judal is really going nuts as the battle between him and Aladdin reaches a new level.


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## Kellogem (Mar 10, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



just as expected...

alibaba could have killed hakuryuu if he aimed higher, and I think he went for the legs on purpose.. with a vertical slash he could have cut Hakuryuu in half.

but I wonder if they are going to find a way to bring him back or hakuryuu is going to control him for a while...

also did judar just try to summon ill ilah on his own? if he can do that anytime he wants, thats fuck..


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## Vandal Savage (Mar 10, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Well, Hakuryuu vs. Alibaba is over. I hope the former is happy, he just moved even closer to being the Darth Vader of this series.

Now, I'm really interested in this Judar vs. Aladdin fight because shit is about to get real if Judar starts calling Ill Illah down from that other dimensional space.


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## Kellogem (Mar 10, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



I think he already tried and failed because of Aladdins space warp, now they are over it - it looks like he doesnt have that connection /pillar/ with the black blob which is no longer visible either - , and about to have a final clash.


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## crystalblade13 (Mar 11, 2015)

Did u guys see the vol 25 cover!!??



It's love...it is life...

Beautiful...


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## santanico (Mar 11, 2015)

is she sitting on someone


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## crystalblade13 (Mar 11, 2015)

remember the kiss scene with haku? its him she's sitting on.


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## Rokudaime (Mar 11, 2015)

Pity Alibaba. Soft to the end.

At this point..instead of became Hakuryuu's puppet, maybe death is better option for him.


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## Kellogem (Mar 11, 2015)

Rokudaime said:


> Pity Alibaba. Soft to the end.
> 
> At this point..instead of became Hakuryuu's puppet, maybe death is better option for him.



nah, they are going to free him...

speaking of which, what happens is a metal vessel breaks? maybe they should start by shattering belial..

or sindbad supreme mindfucks hakuryuus mindfuck, rewriting it.

Edit: I was bored so tried to make a tierlist based on battle capability:

tier 1: Solomon, David
tier 2: Sidbad, full powered Gyokuen
tier 3: Kouen
tier 4: Alibaba, Hakuryuu, Aladdin, Judar, Arba, Muu
tier 5: Kougyoku, Alma Toran Falan, Ithnan, Wahid, Setta, Sheba
tier 6: Koumei, Kouha, Hakuei
tier 7: Sindbads household vessel users, Yamraiha, Morgiana, Dunya, present Ithnan, Reim household metal vessel users, Kou household metal vessel users
tier 8: that 3 fodder black metal vessel user, Myers, Doron, Irene, Mohja, Titus before he became a Magi


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## santanico (Mar 11, 2015)

crystalblade13 said:


> remember the kiss scene with haku? its him she's sitting on.


that part was awkward 


Rokudaime said:


> Pity Alibaba. Soft to the end.
> 
> At this point..instead of became Hakuryuu's puppet, maybe death is better option for him.



uuhh no


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## LordPerucho (Mar 11, 2015)

> 706,372　Magi Vol.20
> 666,838　Magi Vol.21
> 571,832　Magi Vol.22
> 509,113　Magi Vol.23
> ...



Volume 20: When the Hogwarts-like arc ended.

Volume 22 is when the Alma Toran arc started.


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## Kellogem (Mar 11, 2015)

I miss gyokuen..



LordPerucho said:


> > 706,372　Magi Vol.20
> > 666,838　Magi Vol.21
> > 571,832　Magi Vol.22
> > 509,113　Magi Vol.23
> ...





why is that? readers were disappointed in both magnostadt and alma toran?


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## crystalblade13 (Mar 11, 2015)

Japan confirmed for bad taste. 

Also, numbers often drop when an anime adaptation ends.

Japan confirmed for short attention span


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## santanico (Mar 11, 2015)

they prefer shit like one piece and nardo


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## convict (Mar 11, 2015)

The novelty factor of Magi has worn off. From here on out I don't expect sales to ever be close to the past few years. Same thing happened to Toriko. Hopefully the plummet levels off before going as low as Toriko.


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## LordPerucho (Mar 11, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> I miss gyokuen..
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Alma Toran flashback kinda killed the interest in the series, the japs probably found Solomon to be a boring Mary Sue.


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## Kellogem (Mar 11, 2015)

LordPerucho said:


> Alma Toran flashback kinda killed the interest in the series, the japs probably found Solomon to be a boring Mary Sue.



I thought thats the kind of characters the shallow japs like, the strong, perfect bishie boys with a love interest.. or at least the females.


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## Stevenh1990 (Mar 12, 2015)

Vol 24 was split with a regular versoin and a special edition, so if you put it together it sell more than vol 23.


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## Rokudaime (Mar 12, 2015)

crystalblade13 said:


> Japan confirmed for bad taste.
> 
> Also, numbers often drop when an anime adaptation ends.
> 
> Japan confirmed for short attention span



Or maybe those arcs were really bad? You know...


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## crystalblade13 (Mar 12, 2015)

Rokudaime said:


> Or maybe those arcs were really bad? You know...



They weren't remotely bad. They answered questions that had been forshadowed back since vol freaking 2. As well as giving an in depth look into the world building of magi, while also opening up future plot points based on the alma torran characters actions. Literally the only thing that japan complained about was the lack of the mains. The pacing issue of the arc arose to meet their needs. The arc was amazing at showing how to do proper world building, while conveying a strong narrative about essentially brand new characters. A story can't get by on action, action, plot twist all the time. Those writers don't truly know how to craft a story, so they just try to adrenaline pump constantly. Ohtaka is much more refined.

And thanks for pointing out the volume sale thing with the special edition stevenh, I had forgotten about that.


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## Vandal Savage (Mar 12, 2015)

The agenda to make it as if Alma Torran killed this series is highly amusing just because some people didn't like that arc. You don't have to try so hard, its okay not to like it without going the extra mile to justify yourself. 

The anime ending and the lack of exposure that comes with it is a far more valid reason for any drop off. Never mind comparing more recent volumes to older volumes is silly since older volumes have had a longer time on the market and thus a longer time to accumulate sales with readers. By that metric Magi will always be going downhill because no volume will match volume 1's numbers. 

And yes, special editions also matter don't forget to count those.


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## Kellogem (Mar 12, 2015)

so the drop during Magnostadt is much bigger than during Alma Toran, where it even stopped.. then I guess its Magnostadt and the ending of the anime to blame more than AT.

one way or another, season 3 of the anime could boost up the numbers and more than enough material for it already... especially if it would be as much better than season 2 than how much better season 2 was compared to season 1.


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## santanico (Mar 12, 2015)

Alma Toran arc wasn't bad, it filled in plot holes w/o exaggerating


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## crystalblade13 (Mar 12, 2015)

Well, they weren't plot holes, just unexplained plot elements.


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## santanico (Mar 12, 2015)

my point stands


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## Palm Siberia (Mar 12, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> I miss gyokuen..
> 
> 
> 
> ...



She is not coming back and it seems like everyone is going with her


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## Kellogem (Mar 12, 2015)

they are going to need a head when Al Thamen becomes a thing again..


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## Palm Siberia (Mar 12, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> they are going to need a head when Al Thamen becomes a thing again..



You mean Haku since it's clear he owns the empire atm


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## Kellogem (Mar 12, 2015)

Haku hates Al Thamen and has control over the puppets only, not the real magicians behind them.. basically their network.

with Hakuryuus redemption and maybe destroying belial their system should should work again.. maybe an arc or two.


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## Kellogem (Mar 12, 2015)

something just came to my mind..

at one point gyokuen said they -al thamen -  are born to this word without physical body composed only from thoughts. that would explain why Ithnan "died" even when he only left behind a doll when Sindban killed him - he didnt have a physical body, only the doll one.

but that would mean gyokuen had to leave a doll after when she died, but judar said there was none (how was he so sure, cause the explosion could have destroyed it is beyond me, but he must surely knows better).

that makes her death especially fishy.


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## Palm Siberia (Mar 12, 2015)

Speaking of her...



Next volume cover


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## Goud (Mar 14, 2015)

So where is the new chapter?


----------



## crystalblade13 (Mar 17, 2015)

Them raws... Damn Aladdin.

Also, everyone on here, just look at the raws and read the fan translations. There's no telling when sense will get around to it.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Mar 17, 2015)

Magi 260 raw:

Chapter 62


*Spoiler*: __ 





HOLY SHIT!  Aladdin just sent Judar flying into SPACE!!


----------



## Rokudaime (Mar 17, 2015)

Catalyst75 said:


> Magi 260 raw:
> 
> Chapter 62
> 
> ...



Magi 260 chinese

*Spoiler*: __ 



Alibaba said something like Judar wont came back for forever...so I assumed that Judar probably in other dimension that looks like space.

Then Hakuryuu get sad and say the same thing to Aladdin that same goes to Alibaba...he won't came back. Aladdin seems aware of this and felt sad.


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## LordPerucho (Mar 17, 2015)

So Is it a hint Magi might end sooner than expected?


----------



## santanico (Mar 17, 2015)

bye Judar/Ali


no they better come back, esp. Alibaba


----------



## crystalblade13 (Mar 17, 2015)

LordPerucho said:


> So Is it a hint Magi might end sooner than expected?



Highly doubt it.

This is all likely a lead in to alibaba and judar getting some sort of character development before their inevitable return. Which I'm all for. Don't worry, I'm sure the civil war is still on.


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## Vandal Savage (Mar 17, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



So Aladdin lost Alibaba and Hakuryuu lost Judar. Talk about heavy stuff to deal with for the immediate future. Aladdin and Alibaba coming to talk to Hakuryuu had way bigger consequences than I ever saw coming.


----------



## Kellogem (Mar 17, 2015)

shit... I thought no chapter this week..


*Spoiler*: __ 



isnt Judar in Ill ilah or something? I got the feeling he fall into the big black orb thing..


both him and Alibaba are going to return, but I wonder when.. for judar, its not urgent, but alibaba, the main disappearing for another year or so, after not having a role during an alma toran arc, and his absence in magnostadt arc? they better bring him back soon and develop him properly.. 

so as a result of this battle, Judar, Alibaba and both of Hakuryuus legs are gone... damn, was expecting Alibaba to get a beating, maybe losing a limb, but this is grim.


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## Goud (Mar 17, 2015)

Has 258 even been translated yet? Can't find it anywhere.


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## Kellogem (Mar 17, 2015)

I think hakuryuus chances of defeating kouen just flew out the window..


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## santanico (Mar 17, 2015)

Goud said:


> Has 258 even been translated yet? Can't find it anywhere.



not yet                       .


----------



## Deleted member 73050 (Mar 17, 2015)

Wait Alibaba's dead? How?


----------



## Vandal Savage (Mar 17, 2015)

Vino said:


> Wait Alibaba's dead? How?




*Spoiler*: __ 



He isn't dead he is just a vegetable due to Belial's magic.


----------



## Palm Siberia (Mar 18, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



 I expected them to go into a fist fight like the Naruto Sasuke VOTE 2.0 battle lol


----------



## Kellogem (Mar 18, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



aladdin should make a soccer team out of sand ugos and make them play soccer with hakuryuu as the ball


but seriously, he could finish him off.. Id do it if I were him.

or at least take his metal vessels


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 18, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Hakuryuu is going to be his new king candidate.


----------



## santanico (Mar 18, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Hakuryuu is going to be his new king candidate.



lol why the hell would that happen


----------



## son_michael (Mar 18, 2015)

Hakuryuu is going to get solomons wisdom mind fucked and go back to the white side of the Rukh, after that he and Aladin will spend their days hiding away from kouens faction while trying to bring back Alibaba and Judar


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## Kellogem (Mar 18, 2015)

mind someone telling me why raws tend to look so shitty?

I was always wondering about that and couldnt figure it out... with an average scanner, it should look much better than that.. does the pages in the magazine look so shabby? I mean the white rusty looking dots on the black and grey parts.. 

..its not like I dont appreciate them, just wondering.


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## son_michael (Mar 18, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> mind someone telling me why raws tend to look so shitty?
> 
> I was always wondering about that and couldnt figure it out... with an average scanner, it should look much better than that.. does the pages in the magazine look so shabby? I mean the white rusty looking dots on the black and grey parts..
> 
> ..its not like I dont appreciate them, just wondering.



Isn't it because they are rushed or scanned sloppily because it's illegal?


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## Kellogem (Mar 18, 2015)

son_michael said:


> Isn't it because they are rushed or scanned sloppily because it's illegal?



but how can you scan something sloppily, especially to get that grained effect? ..its like there is salt on the glass or something..

dunno, maybe my scanner is just not bad enough..


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## crystalblade13 (Mar 19, 2015)

I don't know about that gunners, I own the English magi volumes and it's pretty consistent with the cleaned scan pictures.


----------



## Malvingt2 (Mar 19, 2015)

Both chapters are out and damn Alibaba :/


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## ClandestineSchemer (Mar 19, 2015)

Good bye Alibaba.
Good thing Alladin probably has the solution thanks to his hax wisdom or this really would be the end for him.


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## Kellogem (Mar 19, 2015)

Morg is going to be very sad..

crying Morg incoming.

I wonder about Hakuryuus development, if he continues with the plan and staying batshit crazy.. maybe he would need an Obito (disguised as Madara) like of character now manipulating him, cause I dont think he can continue like this. so time for Sindbad to give him a hand.

Sindria with Hakuryuu vs Kou..


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## LordPerucho (Mar 19, 2015)

Hakuryuu the next Darth Vader?

Enjoyed both chapters.

Great fights, with an unexpected ending in Hakuryuu "winning". Great design for Judals extreme magic transformation.

lold at this pic.


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## Coyote (Mar 19, 2015)

Pretty sure his conscience will come back in some way

Was Judar send out to outer space ?


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## Kellogem (Mar 19, 2015)

Now will Aladdins "individuality" disappear?

I think none of us would notice it...


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## santanico (Mar 19, 2015)

LordPerucho said:


> Hakuryuu the next Darth Vader?
> 
> Enjoyed both chapters.
> 
> ...



 sad tho


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## Shukumei (Mar 19, 2015)

Noo, Judar! Come back! 

Aladdin's OP god-power attack is just too hax to exist.  I knew he was going to pull something out of his ass, but this? He just punched Judar out of the manga!


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## OmniOmega (Mar 20, 2015)

Wow smh Alibaba is a vegetable now. Can't believe Hakuryuu was gonna cut the legs off a vegetable.


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## Kellogem (Mar 20, 2015)

I was rereading Alma Toran trying to understand it, but with not much luck..

so.. after the whole thing with David was done, they found out everything was because their destiny, and Ithnan and co were depressed their suffering is only to move the world forward..

what exactly "destiny" means? I think this word had no meaning, unless they would know their future and that they wouldnt be able to escape it.. but they dont, so destiny is meaningless.. how is it better to suffer without destiny just for the sake of suffering I guess, than knowing its written in somewhere and god wants it, and its moving the world forward.. I see no difference. if Tess and Ithnan brothers death was just for the lulz, would it be better than if its written in destiny?

than Solomon made Ill ilah fall, and replaced destiny with his will, and they are all pissed because of it, even though I dont see any difference other than the changes with rukh, cause know everyone has it equally. I guess suffering - death, diseases, whatever - still happens, he is not much better or worse than Ill Ilah, but they are so against it..

so they want Ill Ilah back.. but then what would change? werent they against destiny so much? 

and now in the present world, they are just want to destroy everything and all life to cease to exist? I guess its understandable if Ill Ilah is mad now, and so are all of Al Thamen, but what I dont understand is their thought process before.. what difference does destiny make, and why is solomons destiny worse than Ill Ilahs?

at least I understand their being bitter because they lost their power, and because their loved ones souls killed by David is sealed away in hell or whatever with Ill Ilah, but the whole destiny thing, not so much..

what would have happened if Solomon would have destroyed Ill Ilah, or sealed him without replacing his will? there would be no suffering in the world or what?

also, during the last battle, it said Al Thamen was able to use black rukh and the white as well.. so can they now?


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## Xin (Mar 20, 2015)

.


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## ensoriki (Mar 20, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> I was rereading Alma Toran trying to understand it, but with not much luck..
> 
> so.. after the whole thing with David was done, they found out everything was because their destiny, and Ithnan and co were depressed their suffering is only to move the world forward..
> 
> ...



No IThnan and Falan are upset because David killed their son which made his Rukh return to Ill Illah. However Solomon sealed Ill Illah away with also sealed their sons 'soul' away with ill illah.

Arba is mad because she's crazy.


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## Vandal Savage (Mar 20, 2015)

OmniOmega said:


> Wow smh Alibaba is a vegetable now. Can't believe Hakuryuu was gonna cut the legs off a vegetable.



Hakuryuu already fell into depravity and depraved individuals tend to get off when it comes to things like this. I mean Arba/Gyokuen IS his mom so I'm sure some of her ruthlessness and spiteful nature rubbed off on him.


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## ensoriki (Mar 21, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> they were very upset over the destiny thing before they came up with the sealing the dead issue..:
> 
> Askin was able to prevent getting one-shotted in a similar manner.
> Askin was able to prevent getting one-shotted in a similar manner.
> ...



They aren't fighting to free anyone from Ill Illah. The loss *at that time* drove that wedge. Then they were too stubborn to quit, such as Ithnan showing he didn't hate Solomon when Aladdin confronted him. A lot of Al Thamen is mooks that Arba exploited and Arba is literally an Ill Illah fanatic. Al Thamen doesn't have any noble goal, Arba finds Solomon arrogant for sealing Ill Illah, she turns people against Solomon. The group doesn't have any giant morally gray purpose its straight up that Arba is batshit crazy and exploited people to get them against Solomon.


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## Kellogem (Mar 21, 2015)

ensoriki said:


> They aren't fighting to free anyone from Ill Illah. The loss *at that time* drove that wedge. Then they were too stubborn to quit, such as Ithnan showing he didn't hate Solomon when Aladdin confronted him. A lot of Al Thamen is mooks that Arba exploited and Arba is literally an Ill Illah fanatic. Al Thamen doesn't have any noble goal, Arba finds Solomon arrogant for sealing Ill Illah, she turns people against Solomon. The group doesn't have any giant morally gray purpose its straight up that Arba is batshit crazy and exploited people to get them against Solomon.



they must be so easy to manipulate then..they turned against solomon because the ones david killed were sealed away and they lost their power, and than a couple of years away they let arba turn the whole thing into a battle against destiny (while she seemingly didnt give a crap about the dead and still had her power)? its just weird that they keep babbling about destiny when their goals basically have nothing to do against destiny itself, just solomon.. or more like life itself.

so everyone except Arba is brainwashed and bitter, and consider Ill Ilah their father just cause Arba said them so? ..even though ill ilah is also "destiny..

also what is destiny in this contest? everyone was so desperate when they found out about destiny, yet its existence doesnt change anything.. wahid even said something like all their suffering is only for god to build itself some holy place or whatever.. the whole destiny part is so abstract, like what the hell is it even supposed to mean.


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## ensoriki (Mar 21, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> they must be so easy to manipulate then..they turned against solomon because the ones david killed were sealed away and they lost their power, and than a couple of years away they let arba turn the whole thing into a battle against destiny (while she seemingly didnt give a crap about the dead and still had her power)? its just weird that they keep babbling about destiny when their goals basically have nothing to do against destiny itself, just solomon.. or more like life itself.
> 
> so everyone except Arba is brainwashed and bitter, and consider Ill Ilah their father just cause Arba said them so? ..even though ill ilah is also "destiny..
> 
> also what is destiny in this contest? everyone was so desperate when they found out about destiny, yet its existence doesnt change anything.. wahid even said something like all their suffering is only for god to build itself some holy place or whatever.. the whole destiny part is so abstract, like what the hell is it even supposed to mean.



To make sure Im clear I'll relook


 Arba got them while they were at their lowest

Magicians resenting that they aided in the war against David because they lose loved ones:
Chapter 181 

Ithnan is clearly conflicted by the loss:
Chapter 181

Basically the first real talk of destiny:
Chapter 181

Arba is weird as fuck:
Chapter 181
Chapter 181

The very first time they meet Ilah, Arba starts crying and calling it father. The others did not see it as such, but take in mind, Arba 'worships' the thing. Which is why what Solomon will do will turn her against him. Note that prior to entering this space, while people were *unhappy* they weren't Al Thamen. Al Thamen literally starts from Arba being a crazy bitch (possibly David setting her on this course).

and this  page (plus those that follow) answers destiny:
Chapter 181
Chapter 181

Ill Ilah is setting the pace, which ultimately makes their struggles and success meaningless because whatever they do will put them in the same place regardless. If they chose to go left or choose to go right they still end up in the center, which did not bode well with them. Not that Arba cared.

Here solomon advocates doing what they all thought David was arrogant for doing....stealing from God: 
Chapter 181
Chapter 181

Well Solomon does steal from him, he replaces Ilahs will with his own and seals the thing away... Ugo and Sheba can live with this but Arba can't.

Idea seems to be that Destiny is a single flow, the "God" is the one in control of that flow who dictates where it leads. Solomon took control of that flow from from Ill Ilah. 
Arba's manifesto is that they're going to remove themselves from Destiny of the false God and it climaxed here
Chapter 181


The Tl;dr is that. Multiple people were distraught after the fight with David. Solomon had finally relinquished everyone from Davids control but when he tried to ease everyone by investigating David's power he found God. When they found God they found out the truth all their losses and successes were going to result the same anyways, toward Ill Illahs Will. Solomon wasn't satisfied with this so he changed it so that the Will was everyone coming together to move forward. Arba couldn't accept this so she created Al Thamen and found out how to turn the Rukh back to black. They could use both Black and White Rukh, but they couldn't fight off Solomon. Anyways Al Thamen was losing and Wahid gave in and basically brought Ill Illah down into their world, who drained the planet, with his whole stick being that he was going to back to where his son Tess was. So yeah....it was a driving force at least for Wahid and Falan. Basically Ithnan didn't like being controlled by Destiny, that everything he did was meaningless because it all lead to the same path.
Wahid and Falan were grieving their son and had gone mad essentially. Multiple magicians didn't like that they were made 'equal' with the other races in reality with the depowering of magic that occured, in addition to their loss during the war. Arba manipulated all of these feelings to make them join her. 

So you had players grieving and missing their old status quo and Arba tying it all together because Solomon was a heretic.
Arba doesn't really give a rats ass about Destiny, she wants Ill Illah in control at the end of the day.
Having people reject Solomons will and fall to depravity worked for her because it increases the amount of Black Rukh available and is a jab against Solomon that helps her bring back Ill Illah.

The weird thing that with her "dead", what is Al Thamen really? 

They were easy to manipulate but its a given because she literally got everyone when they were most conflicted.


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## Kellogem (Mar 21, 2015)

ensoriki said:


> To make sure Im clear I'll relook
> 
> 
> Arba got them while they were at their lowest
> ...



its a bit disappointing its all Arbas propaganda and they basically just bitter and mad and want to destroy everything.. so basically there is no logic behind it, its just Arba was a fanatic and turned everyone else as well when they didnt like how things are? all the shit about breaking destiny is just mad peoples nonsense?



> and this  page (plus those that follow) answers destiny:
> Link removed
> Link removed
> 
> ...



the destiny thing is still hazy,.. its not like there was something they struggled against and they found out its written in destiny they cant succeeded.. they dont know whats written in destiny, which makes the whole thing pointless - what if its written in destiny they are going to live a happy life? or "breaking from destiny" is all part of destiny as well?

al thamens struggle against destiny is probably part of destiny.. 

what would happen to a world without both ill ilah and solomon or the flow? people would still suffer, wouldnt they? or just cease to exist..

Id only be desperate because of destiny, if I'd find out I destined to fail in something I try to do in the present, but just going against destiny without specifics is pointless..

also, could they still use white rukh as well? I had the impression they cant, but whats the reason if they could in alma torran?

if Ill Ilah turned mad after Solomon pushed it down, maybe if it could retake its place it wouldnt be evil again, and all the sould inside it would be in heaven or whatever again..and maybe it would be solomon and his flow which would go to hell..


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## Kellogem (Mar 21, 2015)

ok, here is my theory after thinking through it..:

Ill Ilah was an omnipotent being, everything was under its guidance, but not being sure it is right, it created a singularity on purpose: David (kind of like a if god is omnipotent, can it change its own nature thing).. David was outside of his flow of destiny, and give him the power to affect even Ill Ilah itself - to be sure there is a "human factor" in his destiny, and not just god itself controlling everything from above.

than David turned evil for reasons, and started the whole enslaving other species / leaching on Ill Ilah thing, and II couldnt do anything, cause it made David in a way he was outside of his powers. time passed by, David saw the flow of destiny, and one point he saw that Solomon, going to defeat him and destroy his system (I guess since Solomon is Davids offspring, he is also outside of destiny to some extent).. than he made Arba a magician knowing she will be a religious nuts in the future, than set up the whole Solomon taking control of rukh and fall of Alma Torran thing - killed the family of Al Thamen, so they would turn against Solomon latter and gave him the key, the staff so he could replace Ill Ilah.. than he disappeared into wherever Solomon is going to put Ill Ilah latter, and made him mad when Solomon send it there, with it taking control everyone in depravity in the future.
at the end I guess Ill Ilah is going to descend into the real world and David is going to emerge from it, ready to take control of the current world.. probably going to have something to do with Sindbad, like he is going to be his host as he doesnt have a physical body or something.

I think David is impersonating inequality, hierarchy and selfish desires in the story as the main villain, while Solomon is the guidance of someone with human origin and thus with empathy and selflessness, while Ill Ilah itself is neutral.


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## Catalyst75 (Mar 22, 2015)

Translation of Magi 260 Raw:




*Spoiler*: __ 



Holy shit!

THAT'S what Aladdin did to Judar - he cast a magic that rewrote the world's laws!  The kid's God-tier with that thing!


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 22, 2015)

Aladdin OP wtf


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## santanico (Mar 22, 2015)

Poor alibaba


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## Vandal Savage (Mar 22, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



So Aladdin re-wrote Judar's existence out of the current world? What the fuck that is so ridiculously broken.


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## Kellogem (Mar 22, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



probably opened a portal to some other dimension like solomon did, nothing unexpected..


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## Kellogem (Mar 23, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



ohhh.. awesome design for the new girl.. who might she be? someone related to Kou or Al Thamen? if Hakuryuu got her instead of Judar, that was a good change..

Aladdin being Hakuryuus magi, that would be rich all around.. I like it Hakuryuu offered him though.


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## santanico (Mar 23, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



damn Hakuryuu doesn't waste time


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## Gunners (Mar 23, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Aladdin erased him from the plot?


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 23, 2015)

Gunners said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Aladdin erased him from the plot?




*Spoiler*: __ 



Pretty Much. Now if Aladdin has a problem just tells the Author the get some white out to take them out of the story


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## crystalblade13 (Mar 24, 2015)

Kellogem, what's so hard to understand about al thaman? 

Think about it, they are all devoted to illah for giving them magic to basically rule the world. They ALL worship him besides Solomon. They pray to him. He is god. Think about real life religious people, think about if they really met god face to face. Now imagine that they see what god has in store for them. Now, the leader of their church sais. "Ya know what? Gods weak right now. I don't like what he has in store for us, so Imma kill him and control everyone's destiny instead, because I think it's right . And I'm doing it regardless if what any of you think. Also, these three people I think are good, have more power than the rest of you. But it's cool, they are good people, they totally won't misuse the power once I'm gone. Kay, bye.

Do you not see why this would enrage people? Gods destiny may have had a bad ending, but what's to say Solomon's wouldn't be worse. And without illah they would have still been hiding in caves , fearing getting eaten.


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## crystalblade13 (Mar 24, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Also,, Aladdin pushed judar to the edge of the universe by manipulating physics. He didn't seal him or write him out of existence.


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## Kellogem (Mar 24, 2015)

crystalblade13 said:


> Kellogem, what's so hard to understand about al thaman?
> 
> Think about it, they are all devoted to illah for giving them magic to basically rule the world. They ALL worship him besides Solomon. They pray to him. He is god. Think about real life religious people, think about if they really met god face to face. Now imagine that they see what god has in store for them. Now, the leader of their church sais. "Ya know what? Gods weak right now. I don't like what he has in store for us, so Imma kill him and control everyone's destiny instead, because I think it's right . And I'm doing it regardless if what any of you think. Also, these three people I think are good, have more power than the rest of you. But it's cool, they are good people, they totally won't misuse the power once I'm gone. Kay, bye.
> 
> Do you not see why this would enrage people? Gods destiny may have had a bad ending, but what's to say Solomon's wouldn't be worse. And without illah they would have still been hiding in caves , fearing getting eaten.



they didnt seem that religious before, and when they turned to al thamen.. besides arba, none of them had an issue with the sealing of il ilah itself, they had with the consequences - losing their power, the souls of their dead loved ones, destiny. they werent riding il ilahs dick, only arba.

I got your explanation, I just find it fishy. or at least disappointing. they were rational people before, and now its all "il ilah, our father, destiny sucks!" (despite destiny is still there regardless its solomons or il ilahs).

also what I didnt get is the idea of destiny, what exactly it is, if you read my post, you would know. because its just an abstract idea things happen the way they meant to, its nothing to be depressed about.


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## crystalblade13 (Mar 24, 2015)

They were pretty religious. Right before they did basically anything, they would all close their eyes and pray to god (except Solomon, he never prays once in the arc) . And the main thing that pissed off the majority was that he made the decision basically alone , and single handily changed the fate of everyone on the planet, while simultaneously explosing everyone to attack by the other species cause, in his opinion, those species were nice and would never attack magicians ever again. He didn't consider the thoughts of others and made literally a world altering decision, with the support of basically only 2 people.

About destiny , all we know is that it DOES exist on the magi world. The specifics are hazy, but by Solomon changing it to his destiny, he made "falling" possible, which brings misery and suffering to all who oppose his idea of the future. I highly doubt it was intentional though.


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## Kellogem (Mar 24, 2015)

they didnt know about destiny at that time, if as ithnan said they were so depressed when they found out about destiny, Id expect them to change their opinion about ill ilah as well.. its like being a fanatic of god while cursing said gods plans (destiny).. are they blaming solomon for everything now? destiny existed before he replaced ill ilahs will...

it just doesnt add up to me they turned into such religious nuts throwing away all reason.. I guess you can explain it with depravity and arbas influence, but I dont like they get twisted into an extension of arba..


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## crystalblade13 (Mar 24, 2015)

They (being most people, some did support Solomon) did blame him for everything. Which is exactly why Sheba blew up at them and called them hypocrites for wanting equality, but complaining about being equal in power to the other species. Basically, the magicians got screwed cause their power was gone, their loved ones were gone, and the other species weren't going through any of it. The reason for their suffering was because Solomon arrogantly made a decision alone, and it cost everyone. And they thought this made him like a dictator, after all, when illah was god, everything was good for them. And they never saw Solomon's destiny , so they doubt him. In al thamans eyes, resurrecting illah will bring back the original way of life they had, and they will know what's in store. The fear of not knowing Solomons worlds end is probably a factor too. That fear of the unknown can be a heck of a thing.

And it's not like every person in alma torran betrayed him, far from it. Many accepted what he did, and those people moved to the new world with ugo. But some couldn't stomach having a god who changed the lives of everyone and replaced the god who gave humanity a fighting chance in the first place.

It's of note that I like Solomon as a character and I think he had good intentions, but I can see why al thaman calls him arrogant. Even if he didn't mean to become the sole god of the world , and make his own destiny. It still happened. And he did impose his views on everyone.


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## Kellogem (Mar 24, 2015)

crystalblade13 said:


> In al thamans eyes, resurrecting illah will bring back the original way of life they had, and they will know what's in store.



but they hated the concept of destiny before solomon as well.. hell, even arba admitted they were "controlled by a prison called destiny" even before:

Link removed

now they are acting like only solomons version is "destiny" and wants il ilahs back like before that wasnt destiny.. they must be really brainwashed to not remember how much they disliked il ilahs version.

also.. Im not sure about the deads soul being with il ilah either.. when wahid brought it up, sheba said the rukh is shared around the world... I guess its supposed to mean the souls of the ones killed before solomon replacing ill ilahs will are wherever the rest of the dead souls go after? its not entirely clear to me, but it seems like the idea of the ones david killed are being in hell with ill ilah was negated by sheba..and then it all went back to destiny again..

Link removed


in the end what I dont get is how they are only against solomons "destiny" now and would accept il ilahs, while they didnt want either before, and why they are acting like the whole concept of destiny originates from solomon?


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## crystalblade13 (Mar 24, 2015)

I see what your saying about not wanting either. Maybe ohtaka will delve more into al thamans history more later on. There's quite a few mysteries surrounding them.


*Spoiler*: __ 



So who do you think the mystery girl is? I've heard lots of theories. Representative of magi's version of japan (cause she looks like a ninja), possibly Falan, kou experiment. And man was that cover sad, everybody all smiling and stuff. Dat ohtaka, playing with our feelings lol


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## Kellogem (Mar 24, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



she is too ninja to be Falan.. but bringing in another side, when we still have Sindria, Kou, Reim,.. etc.. I think its a bit too late for world building. 

Id prefer it to be tied to Al Thamen, if Hakuryuu can put his beef with them aside, they are practically on the same side. they would be more than happy to give him a hand if it brings destruction. and why would some new nation side with Hakuryuu?

that black and white yin yang design reminded me of Sindbad half fallen to depravity


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## crystalblade13 (Mar 24, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



theres also a theory of her being one of the yambala magoi manipulation tribe. Her clothes are kinda similar, she has a mask, and hakuryuu knows magoi manipulation. There's also the possibility that sinbad is in on this if that's the case, since he has close ties to that tribe.


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## Kellogem (Mar 24, 2015)

crystalblade13 said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> theres also a theory of her being one of the yambala magoi manipulation tribe. Her clothes are kinda similar, she has a mask, and hakuryuu knows magoi manipulation. There's also the possibility that sinbad is in on this if that's the case, since he has close ties to that tribe.




*Spoiler*: __ 




I didnt even remember those guys.. I guess its a good theory, but do they have a power that would make a difference against kouen?

also that girl looks sinister as hell with that black grin..I wonder what motivation that Yambala guys would have for war..

Im glad we are going to find out next week probably..


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## crystalblade13 (Mar 24, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



maybe they can distrupt magoi enough to screw up metal vessals. Or make phenixs healing powers hurt Kouen instead 

Also, Kouen's household member kin gaku has black teeth as well (he's the one who was eating black djinn (although once he's in his giant form he looses the black teeth for some reason lol)). Either way, I wonder if they are connected somehow.


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## son_michael (Mar 24, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> but they hated the concept of destiny before solomon as well.. hell, even arba admitted they were "controlled by a prison called destiny" even before:
> 
> Chapter 41!
> 
> ...



Yea, at first they were all "Solomon should be King! Down with the corrupt God!"  Then they were like "NOO Solomon your way is wrong, we want our old God back!"

that about sums up the Arc


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## Kellogem (Mar 24, 2015)

Solomon should have taken away Arba, Ugo and Shebas powers as well..

its a bit of a hypocrisy to say "now all of you should be equal, except you 3, since I trust you you should stand above the rest"

no wonder Al Thamen were mad, its the same inequality except limited to 3 people as supreme.

also couldnt he go back and ask the rest about the whole Il Ilah replacement thing? he must have been afraid they would disagree so he was like "fuck their opinions" and then keep the powers of the 3 he trusted while the ones who lost everything fighting by his side are powerless.. its like asking for a rebellion.

while he had good intentions for the world, he basically gave a middle finger to his own unstable companions.


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## ensoriki (Mar 25, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> Solomon should have taken away Arba, Ugo and Shebas powers as well..
> 
> its a bit of a hypocrisy to say "now all of you should be equal, except you 3, since I trust you you should stand above the rest"
> 
> ...



Al Thamen wasn't really mad because Arba was their leader and she had the power.
Arba played them all she didn't give a darn about no "prison" of destiny. She told Solomon straight to his Rukh, when he asked for foregiveness, that she had only been listening to the "voice" from the start . It lifewiped the surface of the planet, this isn't a benevolent deity. Its definitely not the same inequality because Sheba and Ugo weren't trying to brainwash people from magic towers....


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## Kellogem (Mar 25, 2015)

ensoriki said:


> Al Thamen wasn't really mad because Arba was their leader and she had the power.
> Arba played them all she didn't give a darn about no "prison" of destiny. She told Solomon straight to his Rukh, when he asked for foregiveness, that she had only been listening to the "voice" from the start . It lifewiped the surface of the planet, this isn't a benevolent deity. Its definitely not the same inequality because Sheba and Ugo weren't trying to brainwash people from magic towers....



I meant before they realized Arba is on their side, just after they found out what happened.. nobody gave a damn about their protestation and even their power was taken away, they only had two options, to give in or rebellion.. without arba even the latter one wouldnt have been an option. I doubt they would have been as mad if at least Ugo, Sheba and Arba was equal to them in the first place..

well, its the same inequality as when god gave power only to humans, except the humans solomon entrusted his power to didnt abuse their power.. except arba.

so in the end inequality again lead to disaster, why couldnt solomon make all of the humans and species equal again, if that was their original idea?


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## Catalyst75 (Mar 27, 2015)

Link removed

Damn, that magic is scary.  Judar has been not only pushed outside of the planet's atmosphere, but Dhoruf Asshara will ensure that same force will continue pushing against him for all eternity.  The logical weakness behind the technique is to continually apply a greater force against the one perpetually pushing you, but all entities have limits to their power, so that's not an option in Magi.

So Judar is going to continue hurtling through space for all eternity unless divine intervention steps in.


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## Deputy Myself (Mar 27, 2015)

as I stated in another thread:
If this is trully the last we see of Alibaba and Judar I'll be very pleased


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## Darth (Mar 27, 2015)

Deputy Myself said:


> as I stated in another thread:
> If this is trully the last we see of Alibaba and Judar I'll be very pleased



>shounen jump
>getting rid of not one, but two popular characters in one short fight.

Yeah... Not gonna happen.


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## Kellogem (Mar 27, 2015)

so... without his borg Judar should be dead in like 5 minutes.. and the magic is supposed to push away his corpse for eternity..

it makes it a bit harder for the mangaka to write him back.. is there a chance he is actually gone and wont come back again? ..or ill ilah is going to save his ass some way..

as expected from aladdin killing his opponent without staining his hand..


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## LordPerucho (Mar 27, 2015)

I expect Kassim to show up again and help Alibaba recover his senses.

As for Judar, maybe he does a new technique that is even more haxx than Aladdins?

If Judar doesnt return then Gyokuen returns(a part of her is probably inside Hakuryuu imo).


----------



## santanico (Mar 27, 2015)

Deputy Myself said:


> as I stated in another thread:
> If this is trully the last we see of Alibaba and Judar I'll be very pleased



pfffft not happening


----------



## The_Evil (Mar 27, 2015)

Did Alladin curse Judar with perpetual motion? That's pretty awesome. 

But man, Judar is out, while Hakuryuu survived. smh.


----------



## ensoriki (Mar 27, 2015)

Judar will escape by entering another dimension.
I hope Alibaba returns on his own. If he's in another world he should best it, like a spirit quest srs.


----------



## ClandestineSchemer (Mar 28, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



So Aladdin  and Hakuryuu is the new duo.
Seems like an improvement to me.


----------



## Kellogem (Mar 28, 2015)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



what makes you think that?

that girl and Hakuryuu are the new duo..


----------



## Ftg07 (Mar 31, 2015)

Alibaba


----------



## santanico (Apr 1, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Alibaba's household is reunited with him


----------



## Palm Siberia (Apr 1, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



 Great another masked character now we can start the theories about this woman being an Uchiha


----------



## Kellogem (Apr 1, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



I dont think the mask matters.. she wont be someone we already know, its just for making her more mysterious like Ithnan. but its not like there are many important females we know of she can be besides falan.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Apr 1, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> I dont think the mask matters.. she wont be someone we already know, its just for making her more mysterious like Ithnan. but its not like there are many important females we know of she can be besides falan.




*Spoiler*: __ 




Or Arba's gone and invade somebody else's body after her original one was destroyed by Hakuryuu.


----------



## santanico (Apr 2, 2015)

when she got her head knocked off she gave a creepy  smile :/


----------



## Kellogem (Apr 2, 2015)

Im 70% sure Arba will make a return one way or another, but I doubt she can invade someones body like that..

anyway, I wonder if the new girl is going to get a household vessel from hakuryuu, I just realized he havent give out any despite having 2 djinns. I hope she is going to get a belial one.


----------



## Vandal Savage (Apr 3, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



So after reading the confirmed spoilers I'm pretty impressed with the growth that Aladdin is supposedly displaying at this juncture. Hakuryuu is right (for now) that Aladdin's main objective is done and at the very least Al Thamen has had a major setback. The main concern will be whenever Arba manages to invade another vessel and starts moving in their world again. Of course Kouen isn't just going to sit around doing nothing. It is understandable he wants to take the fight to Hakuryuu as soon as possible.


----------



## wowfel (Apr 5, 2015)

If alaadins magic changes the physics based on who he cast's it on couldn't Judar just teleport to another dimension with il illah's power which might have different physics allowing the spell to be removed?


----------



## LordPerucho (Apr 9, 2015)

Chapter 261 up.

Link removed

Omakes.

Poor Hakuryuu, seeing Morg like dies kinda me feel bad Alibaba is gone.

Im intrigued in that Al-Tharmen girl...


----------



## santanico (Apr 9, 2015)

"Alibaba and Amon's love" :rofl


----------



## Goud (Apr 9, 2015)

Positively surprised with Hakuryuu and Aladdin, especially the former for not giving in already. Hakuryuu struggling with the loss of Judar, but pulling through with his ambitions was some strong character representation. I wonder who the girl is... She doesn't seem familiar.


----------



## santanico (Apr 9, 2015)

I'm glad this is staying interesting. most mangaka start to slack off after 200 chapters


----------



## Kellogem (Apr 9, 2015)

LordPerucho said:


> Chapter 261 up.
> 
> Chapter 205
> 
> ...



what makes you think she is from Al Thamen?


----------



## Palm Siberia (Apr 9, 2015)

It's Tobi he got a sex change but he's still interested in corrupting black haired boys


----------



## LordPerucho (Apr 9, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> what makes you think she is from Al Thamen?



Her looks/covered face?


----------



## Kellogem (Apr 9, 2015)

LordPerucho said:


> Her looks/covered face?



That yambala tribe also wears masks (we had a discussion about them in spoiler tags 2 pages ago when the raw came out)..

other than that her attire is not very al thamenish, its more practical and ninjaesque with the sword, while al thamen members tend to wear those long robes and holding staff like mages.

also that yin/yang - black/white motif suggests its something different I think, like wherever she comes from is taking a middle ground between ill ilah and solomons system, but maybe I read into it too much..


----------



## LordPerucho (Apr 10, 2015)

But I bet she will fight Morg in the future, when was the last time Morg had a meaningful battle?


----------



## Goud (Apr 10, 2015)

starr said:


> I'm glad this is staying interesting. most mangaka start to slack off after 200 chapters



The Alma Torran arc had me really worried. Really digging what has come after though.


----------



## LordPerucho (Apr 11, 2015)

Goud said:


> The Alma Torran arc had me really worried. Really digging what has come after though.



Yeah, Im glad Ohtaka has recovered from that boring flashback, Since the Gyouken battle, the quality has been as great as it was Pre Alma Toran.

Im intrigued how Judal is gonna get out of that haxx spell Aladdin used on him, Alibaba will return because of Cassim imo.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Apr 11, 2015)

The quality never dropped in the first place. Alma torran was an important part of the story that was beautifully written. Some just couldn't handle not seeing their favorite characters I guess. Or the whiners are just action lovers. 

There's a lot more to magi than your favorites and fight scenes ya know.


----------



## Goud (Apr 11, 2015)

crystalblade13 said:


> The quality never dropped in the first place. Alma torran was an important part of the story that was beautifully written. Some just couldn't handle not seeing their favorite characters I guess. Or the whiners are just action lovers.
> 
> There's a lot more to magi than your favorites and fight scenes ya know.



Not all of Alma Torran was bad. I liked its setting, the tension between Solomon and David and some of the fights. The pacing, however, was rather bad. We spent so much time with the ''races'' and their quarrels, which were presented in a rather generic manner. Then there's the relationship between Sheba and Solomon, which took up so much time, at some point it was like reading a fanfiction.

Another problem with flashbacks is that what we already know or can infer and how it takes away from the narrative. The ending to the arc was already known. Aladdin being Solomon's child was also not very unexpected. Arba being Gyokuen was basically a given (Gyokuen was already noted as a Magi from Solomon's court). The arc still tried really hard to make those revelations exciting, but it fell flat just a little.

The arc wasn't bad as a whole, just not up to the standard Magi has set for itself. I'm a fan of this series, but I'm not beyond criticizing where it's due.


----------



## Palm Siberia (Apr 11, 2015)

Another anime season would help gain interest but it seems nothing has come after the second season :/


----------



## Vandal Savage (Apr 11, 2015)

I'm really impressed that Hakuryuu is going to keep going with this but I expected nothing less. I really am curious about what his original plan was to take out Kouen and if it is anywhere close to being as effective as having Judar on his side as a Magi. So this masked lady is working for someone else? I wonder who that would be.


----------



## Lortastic (Apr 11, 2015)

Maybe it's someone we already know?


----------



## Humite Juubi (Apr 12, 2015)

As of now she could work for anyone possible. maybe even someone named iblis.

Becuase i would be very disappointed if there isnt anyone named like this at the end of the manga.(if you wanna know why, google it!)


----------



## teabiscuit (Apr 12, 2015)

i sort of liked the alma toran arc. it was a nice break from characters i got a bit bored of and gave some much needed insight and backstory into the current world and how it came about, imo


----------



## ~VK~ (Apr 12, 2015)

Goud said:


> Arba being Gyokuen was basically a given



Really, a given? IIRC there was a lot of debate over whether it was arba or sheba who was going to be gyokuen.


----------



## ensoriki (Apr 12, 2015)

Vongola King said:


> Really, a given? IIRC there was a lot of debate over whether it was arba or sheba who was going to be gyokuen.



The debate was whether or not Arba was a red herring because she fit the bill so well. People thought Arba was being used to throw us off from Sheba, but low and behold Ohtaka was being very blunt.


----------



## teabiscuit (Apr 12, 2015)

yeah, i thought it was rather obvious by the time arba made her first crazy face - that was gyouken to a t


----------



## santanico (Apr 14, 2015)

*Spoiler*: _chapter 263 summary_ 



In which I get completely carried away and not only translate it all (after saying I’d do just a short summary), but forget to write the intro!! Such an intense chapter… I will do some commentary later.

-“However, right now I cannot say that someone who has fallen into depravity is absolutely mistaken”. In a variation of Koumei’s previous reaction, he is now obviously confused as technically, wasn’t their mission to stop Al-Thamen?

-Aladdin: “That’s right. But Arba-san died… and a lot of black rukh disappeared too, just like Hakuryuu-kun said”. Furthermore, if you don’t do anything to summon Il Ilah, the existence of the black rukh is not an issue. He doesn’t want Hakuryuu and Kouen to fight nor die, even if they are fallen.

-In response, Kouen calls him an idiot (lol) and tells him to do as he pleases - that’s what they will do as well. Apparently, what they want to do is “to make all wars disappear from the world” (I think).

-Koumei explains that war always happens; it doesn’t matter who is right or wrong, but when different ideals collide, it will happen, and it will always end when one side achieves their goal. In other words, war is just a means to an end, and in order to prevent it, Kouen wants to “reduce the number of ideals” (as that would mean there is no reason to fight).

-Aladdin is left deep in thought, and ponders on how the people from the Kou Empire were not the war-hungry generals he thought they were. He also wonders how everything is fighting for the sake of the world, yet in different ways.

-After some dialogue, Kouen asks Aladdin why he went to see Hakuryuu. That was Alibaba’s will to protect Balbadd, but what does Aladdin want? As Aladdin thinks of Solomon, Sheba and Ugo (OH MY GOD), Kouen says that his mission is coming to an end, right? So Aladdin must stand up and fight for what he believes in.

-The scene shifts to Alibaba’s room, where his household is worried as not even Phenex worked. Olba says that he will kill Hakuryuu (for this + everything else), but Aladdin tells him to stop, since Alibaba wouldn’t like that. Aladdin has also decided that from now on he won’t follow Solomon and Ugo’s will, but he will find his own answer (in hindsight… this is worrying me for some reason). And right now, what he wants the most is the help Alibaba.

-They all agree to work together for Alibaba’s sake. Mor will go find Yunan, while Aladdin will dive in the memories of the rukh.
-Aladdin thinks to himself that he loves Alibaba and thus wants to help him - that’s his own will.

-“Solomon’s Wisdom! Umm… I wonder if I should use a different incantation? Ah! I know… OPEN~~~SESAME~~~!!”


----------



## Palm Siberia (Apr 14, 2015)

starr said:


> *Spoiler*: _chapter 263 summary_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Reaction image here and credit to


----------



## Vandal Savage (Apr 14, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Great character development for Aladdin in this chapter. At least he isn't going to be as stuck on what happened in Alma Toran and his father's generation now that Arba and Judar is gone and a lot of the black rukh with them. He is finally focusing on what he wants to do from now on.

Unfortunately, what he wants to do is spend god knows how long trying to get Alibaba back. Understandably so, but I swear if this drags on at all or we don't cut to something more interesting I'll be agitated. At least let Judar come back at the same time so he can resume the best King Vessel-Magi tandem with Hakuryuu.


----------



## son_michael (Apr 14, 2015)

anything on Mors reaction to Alibabas death? That's kind of what I'm interested in lol


----------



## ensoriki (Apr 14, 2015)

I think Alibaba should bring _himself_ back. That or Mor. 

Kouen is straight up saying that Hakuryuu isn't absolutely wrong but it's irrelevant.
He has his ideals and Hakuryuu has his, since they don't agree they'll fight it out for who gets to enact their views.
Rather clear that only Alibaba and Aladdin are really without conviction right now. The Female djinn holders seem fine being subservient so that is I suppose their place, but our King Vessel and Magi are so late to the party.

Maybe time in this 'shadow realm' will do Alibaba some good.


----------



## Vandal Savage (Apr 15, 2015)

Chapter 262 is out.


----------



## LordPerucho (Apr 15, 2015)

Kouen has raised himself a big deathflag.


----------



## LordPerucho (Apr 15, 2015)

Best Magi girl already.


----------



## Vandal Savage (Apr 15, 2015)

Kouen probably has in this chapter, but I think his death flag was already raised between the tension he had with both Hakuryuu and Sinbad. Both of which could create a makeshift alliance with each other depending on what Kouen and his siblings do. Or vulture Kouen after he is done battling with one or the other. The masked girl and that get-up is definitely screaming Yambala tribe to me even if it is a branch that splintered off or something. 

That being said, I'm loving the character development that is going on for both Aladdin and Hakuryuu. The former for questioning if falling into depravity is really that bad if the threat of Ill Illah isn't present while the latter clearly seems to be shifting into a more half-fallen state similar to Sinbad rather than the absolute nut jobs we saw Al Thamen have in their ranks. 

I think their belief that Al Thamen isn't a threat without Arba/Gyokuen may come back to bite them if they are careless though.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 15, 2015)

These new chapters are awesome.


----------



## santanico (Apr 15, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> These new chapters are awesome.


*looks at set*
I thought you disliked alibaba??


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 15, 2015)

starr said:


> *looks at set*
> I thought you disliked alibaba??



Nah.

Alibaba is my favorite character.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Apr 17, 2015)

I can't understand how magi is so popular on boards like manga helpers, but it's so unpopular on narutoforums boards...

Either way, I can't wait to see this upcoming war. I have a bad feeling about Kouha. He just seems like the least relevant kou member, and ohtaka said characters will die. I bet the new girl is with sinbad, haku called it his "original plan". First thing he did in the series was ask sinbad to help him destroy kou. This is gonna be the best arc in manga history. Mark my words.


----------



## Kellogem (Apr 17, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



the lack of reaction from Morg was a bit disappointing, I though she would break down (it was obvious that wont be the case from last chapter where we saw her for a bit, but at least she could have been more worried, like bridget).. it was like it didnt even cross her mind Alibaba might be gone for good. optimism is good, but still..

I wish that bridget girl would get more screen time, she is sweet.. Alibaba should give out a few more household vessels for the pirate crew and toto once he comes back, so they can be useful and not just cheerleaders.

looking forward to the war, Im afraid we are going to waste too much time with this bring alibaba back thing..




edit: btw shouldnt we use spoiler tags, or if a translation is out they are not needed?


----------



## Shukumei (Apr 17, 2015)

crystalblade13 said:


> \Either way, I can't wait to see this upcoming war. I have a bad feeling about Kouha. He just seems like the least relevant kou member, and ohtaka said characters will die.


Kouha!!!?!?!? 

He and Judar are my two favorite characters  Or rather, two most attractive characters


----------



## Breadman (Apr 17, 2015)

Chapter was good, I'm enjoy Magi so far. It's not on my high priority to read list, but it's definitely something that I don't wanna drop.

Anyways, it's interesting seeing Alibaba in a situation like this. Some nagging feeling in the back of my mind though thinks that it's gonna warp into some slapstick comedy arc to get his soul back and put him back together.....


----------



## Shozan (Apr 17, 2015)

is that girl a new magi?

Thought she actually was some kind of fanalis cause she blitzed a really long distance in a blink.


----------



## The World (Apr 20, 2015)

that perpetual motion kinetic energy technique Aladdin used



besto girl ala-jin


----------



## Ftg07 (Apr 20, 2015)

So what are the chances we'll get a season 3 soon or at least an announcement for it?


----------



## The World (Apr 20, 2015)

I feel like we are definitely enough chapters in to make another 24-25 eps

assuming they don't skip shit again


----------



## crystalblade13 (Apr 20, 2015)

Season 2 was done well and that was almost 100 chapters. They left out a few things, but it was still great. If the civil war ends a little before chapter 300, I'd bet that the wars finale would be the season 3 finale. I think we'll be at least halfway through the war before we hear an announcement of any kind. Just speculation.


----------



## Kellogem (Apr 20, 2015)

season 2 still left a lot to be desired, Id say it was more decent than great as an adaptation.. but if season 3 would be as much better than season 2 than season 2 was compared to season 1...

there is more than enough chapters for a 3rd season, lets not forget chapters are released during the run of the anime as well, by the time season 3 would be over I think there would be enough material for season 4 as well.


----------



## Breadman (Apr 20, 2015)

Has there been any statements about a djinn fusing with a human? I mean, we know that they fuse with a weapon of some sort, and that humans can "equip" djinns, but can a human and djinn merge together? I could see maybe that being the solution to alibaba's problem, his djinn Amon fusing with his soul to keep him alive.


----------



## santanico (Apr 20, 2015)

come back Alibaba


----------



## Darth (Apr 21, 2015)

I'm enjoying the adventures of Sinbad a lot more than Magi at the moment. The latest chapters were great and Dragul's back story is really interesting


----------



## Rokudaime (Apr 21, 2015)

Chapter 264 Chinese Scan

Link removed


*Spoiler*: __ 



Game over Alibaba.


----------



## LordPerucho (Apr 21, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Morg will save Alibaba.


----------



## The World (Apr 21, 2015)

Yoshua said:


> Has there been any statements about a djinn fusing with a human? I mean, we know that they fuse with a weapon of some sort, and that humans can "equip" djinns, but can a human and djinn merge together? I could see maybe that being the solution to alibaba's problem, his djinn Amon fusing with his soul to keep him alive.



I've been thinking the same thing since forever


----------



## Hack Snyder (Apr 21, 2015)

Am I the only one who doesn't want Alibaba or Judar to return?


----------



## Malvingt2 (Apr 21, 2015)

A very interesting chapter. A lot of point of views here and there.


----------



## crystalblade13 (Apr 21, 2015)

Darth said:


> I'm enjoying the adventures of Sinbad a lot more than Magi at the moment. The latest chapters were great and Dragul's back story is really interesting



It has been great recently! These last 2 chapters man... Brutal. I still am enjoying magi more right now however, so many interesting ideals and solutions. Moral greyness is amazing. And the war is looking like it's gonna be super hype.

Either way though, ohtaka writes both. So she's beasting on 2 fronts. Best writer.


----------



## santanico (Apr 21, 2015)

Persecuted said:


> Am I the only one who doesn't want Alibaba or Judar to return?



yes


----------



## Hack Snyder (Apr 21, 2015)

Meh. I always saw Aladdin more as the MC than Alibaba for the most port. As for Judar, it'll will be more interesting to see what Hakuryuu does without him since Judar was his trump card.


----------



## Kellogem (Apr 21, 2015)

Hakuryuu for main character...

I dont like Aladdin.. Alibaba is a bit better, but still lacking.

Sindbad mangas art is a bit lackluster for me, it just doesnt have Magis intensity, and kind of tired of Sindbad impressing everyone and making bitches, but Im going to read that 2 chapters now..


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 21, 2015)

R.I.P Alibaba.


----------



## Vandal Savage (Apr 21, 2015)

Persecuted said:


> Am I the only one who doesn't want Alibaba or Judar to return?



No, I really don't want the Alibaba to return even though I believe it will be inevitable. There are far more characters I enjoy reading about in this story than him. I like Judar and wouldn't mind him reuniting with Hakuryuu, but his existence will only bring about the threat of making Ill Illah fall again so his absence is necessary to add a new dimension/perspective to this story. It sure as hell has been doing wonders for Aladdin's character development.


----------



## Rokudaime (Apr 26, 2015)

Chinese Scan for 265.
Chapter 41!

For those who interested on Alibaba's condition:

*Spoiler*: __ 



He became cactuar.


----------



## Kellogem (Apr 26, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



lol, where the fuck are judar and alibaba? I thought judar is flying in space now, but it looks like they are in another weird dimension.. or magi universe has something totally different outside of earth..

didnt expect to see judar so soon, I thought he is gone for hundreds of chapters, and here he is already..

war is already so close as well, I thought they are going to search for alibabas soul for a dozen of chapters.. and hakuryuus fraction is still so small - the new girl and the 2 old farts, how the hell is he going to fight?

morg and co are realizing alibaba is in deep shit just now, time to be depressed.. but I guess its going to be easier to bring both judar and alibabas soul back now that they are at the same place..


----------



## LordPerucho (Apr 26, 2015)




----------



## santanico (Apr 26, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



i knew it. no way would Alibaba and Judar disappear forever


----------



## Santí (Apr 26, 2015)

I wanna see Kouen fuck some shit up again.


----------



## LordPerucho (Apr 26, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 










*Spoiler*: __ 



Who really thought Alibaba and Judar were gone forever? When we arent even close to the beginning of the final arc


----------



## Xin (Apr 26, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



oh my god I want that translated


----------



## Palm Siberia (Apr 26, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



 It would be nice to see Morgiana get involved here I mean this situation should concern her.


----------



## Vandal Savage (Apr 27, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



It looks like Ugo caught Judar in mid-flight and redirected him to wherever Alibaba's soul currently resides.

Mor looks devastated when she comes back with Yunan and sees how Alibaba's condition has worsened. 

Looks like the Kou siblings are heading off to war. Hakuryuu better have one hell of a trump card or two up his sleeve in order to survive this onslaught.


----------



## Araragi (Apr 27, 2015)

Rokudaime said:


> For those who interested on Alibaba's condition:
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



          .


----------



## Cocidius (Apr 28, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Too fucking soon for them to be back. Especially because we just had great chapters getting rid of these two. Love Judar, but Ali should stay gone.


----------



## Rica_Patin (May 1, 2015)

Chapter is out.
Dem feels man, this shit cuts hard.


----------



## santanico (May 1, 2015)

Al Thamen getting a hold of Alibaba's empty vessel could actually be a good plot


----------



## LordPerucho (May 1, 2015)

starr said:


> Al Thamen getting a hold of Alibaba's empty vessel could actually be a good plot



Like poor Aladdin deserves to suffer more 

At this rate he might fall to depravity(that would be an interest plot-twist).



Kell?gem said:


> There is still no clean connection between the ninja girl and Al Thamen..
> 
> anyway, I dont really get it... so if there is a living body with no soul, Al Thamen can just hijack it even if it does not belong to them (like the clones they created)?
> 
> at least Im glad they are still a factor and threat..




She and Ithnan look very similar.


----------



## Kellogem (May 1, 2015)

LordPerucho said:


> She and Ithnan look very similar.



eh, still just a mask.. al thamen wears all kind of masks, some ought to resemble another one.

hakuryuu said al thamen is no good to aladdin makes me believe the force backing him up is something else.


----------



## Palm Siberia (May 1, 2015)

starr said:


> Al Thamen getting a hold of Alibaba's empty vessel could actually be a good plot



Such evil beings using vessels for who knows what


----------



## Kellogem (May 1, 2015)

they are just misunderstood..


----------



## Vandal Savage (May 3, 2015)

Ah man, totally felt bad for Aladdin once he realized the rukh around Alibaba's body wasn't even his anymore. Judar wasn't kidding, Belial really is a nasty metal vessel and I have to question Ugo a bit for making it. I wonder if there is more beneath the surface that we will learn about later.


----------



## LordPerucho (May 12, 2015)

Chapter 89!

Alibaba became a condom 

Kougyoku is jobbing to Ninja Girl imo.


----------



## Rica_Patin (May 12, 2015)

Not happy with Alibabab and Judar being brought back into the story so soon.
I mean yeah, it's obvious they'd be back eventually, but I would have liked some more time without them in the cast to allow for some interesting character building.


----------



## Cocidius (May 13, 2015)

Rica_Patin said:


> Not happy with Alibabab and Judar being brought back into the story so soon.
> I mean yeah, it's obvious they'd be back eventually, but I would have liked some more time without them in the cast to allow for some interesting character building.



Right it's to f@cking soon.


----------



## santanico (May 13, 2015)

Alibaba and Judar team up is awesome. loving this.


----------



## Ftg07 (May 13, 2015)

White dragon next chapter?


----------



## Eternity (May 13, 2015)

Morigiana.


----------



## Magnum Miracles (May 13, 2015)

Judar and Alibaba team up was the thing I least expected, yet now it's one of my most look-forward to part of the series.


----------



## Fourangers (May 14, 2015)

Eternity said:


> Morigiana.



Quick! Use the true love's kiss, I'm sure it's going to work! 



Magnum Miracles said:


> Judar and Alibaba team up was the thing I least expected, yet now it's one of my most look-forward to part of the series.



Can't say I wasn't expecting this but I am looking forward how it'll fold out. Their ideologies contrast too much.


----------



## Vandal Savage (May 16, 2015)

Rica_Patin said:


> Not happy with Alibabab and Judar being brought back into the story so soon.
> I mean yeah, it's obvious they'd be back eventually, but I would have liked some more time without them in the cast to allow for some interesting character building.



I feel the same way. The series has gone long stretches of time without either of them appearing before so I don't see the rush in bringing them back so soon. Oh well.


----------



## Shukumei (May 18, 2015)

Korean 267 is out on MangaMint. I want to know what they're saying!


----------



## LordPerucho (May 27, 2015)

Chapter 51

Chapter 51

Finally the chapters got translated.

And shit is about to go down.


----------



## santanico (May 28, 2015)

finally. and shit is about to get real


----------



## Rokudaime (May 28, 2015)

It seems that Alibaba's swordmanship is real. Even Judar had to bow down to him.


----------



## Hack Snyder (May 28, 2015)

Two chapters? They're that far behind? Damn.


----------



## Malvingt2 (May 29, 2015)

I read the two chapters, I am so pleased with what is going on...


----------



## crystalblade13 (May 29, 2015)

Magi continues to be the best damn shonen manga out there. So much character depth, so much epic buildup, so much fantastic art, so much win everywhere. 

P.s: I'm scared for all the major characters facing down hakuryuu, I don't want Kouha to die , he's too awesome!!!  The other sibling too, but especially Kouha.


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## Kellogem (May 29, 2015)

now I wonder what kind of trick Hakuryuu is going to pull out of his ass...

random soldiers VS enforced soldiers and plant monsters, the latter winning, then the household users come in looking all impressive.. then its going to be the grandpas vs household users.. I can see them being equal..

but then what? 4 metal vessel user vs Hakuryuu until Kouen arrives? hope not... but I dont want the new girl to be so strong to have a chance against them either..

hope she has some companions, as in a few strong characters and not another faceless fodder army.

either way Hakuryuu is going to have lots of blood sticking to his hands, basically everyones from both sides except the old farts and the new girl following him willingly... wonder if he is still redeemable, fallen in depravity or not..



> P.s: I'm scared for all the major characters facing down hakuryuu, I don't want Kouha to die , he's too awesome!!! The other sibling too, but especially Kouha.



as long as the important females remain, Im fine with anyone dying..

I hope Kouens side wins, Alibaba has his rematch with Hakuryuu defeating him, then Sindbad appears and backstabbing Kouen and becomes the new arc enemy...


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## Shukumei (May 29, 2015)

crystalblade13 said:


> P.s: I'm scared for all the major characters facing down hakuryuu, I don't want Kouha to die , he's too awesome!!!  The other sibling too, but especially Kouha.



I love Kouha  I don't want Kouha to die, probably don't want Kougyoku to die before Alibaba comes back, and I don't want Hakuryuu to die (fat chance of that happening), especially before Alibaba and Judar return.  Fuck me, right?    I think we're actually going to get some canon permadeaths.


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## Kellogem (May 29, 2015)

Shukumei said:


> I love Kouha  I don't want Kouha to die, probably don't want Kougyoku to die before Alibaba comes back, and I don't want Hakuryuu to die (fat chance of that happening), especially before Alibaba and Judar return.  Fuck me, right?    I think we're actually going to get some canon permadeaths.



no way kougyoku or hakuryuu are going to die like that.. 

kouha is a possibility..

this war is going to last for 4 month I think..


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## santanico (May 29, 2015)

crystalblade13 said:


> Magi continues to be the best damn shonen manga out there. So much character depth, so much epic buildup, so much fantastic art, so much win everywhere.
> 
> P.s: I'm scared for all the major characters facing down hakuryuu, I don't want Kouha to die , he's too awesome!!!  The other sibling too, but especially Kouha.



how could you not know all the Ren siblings names


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## Santí (May 29, 2015)

Kouen matters for being a hardass, Kougyoku matters for being a waifu. Nothing else matters


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## santanico (May 29, 2015)

Sant? said:


> Kouen matters for being a hardass, Kougyoku matters for being a waifu. Nothing else matters



Koumei has his role too


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## Shukumei (May 29, 2015)

And Kouha is the sexy somewhat bad-news one.


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## Breadman (May 29, 2015)

If we're looking for characters to die, then I could see a couple of Kouen's house vessels dying, like that medusa one or the dragon one.

Also, Alibaba and Judar's dialogue was spot on. I love how Alibaba's not being phased by anything.


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## ~VK~ (May 29, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> now I wonder what kind of trick Hakuryuu is going to pull out of his ass...


One word: Sinbad.




Yoshua said:


> Also, Alibaba and Judar's dialogue was spot on. I love how Alibaba's not being phased by anything.


I guess once you've transformed into a huge dildo not much will get to you.


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## LordPerucho (May 29, 2015)

This War guys, Has to be the most hyped war since Nardo War...

Kouhen will lose the war, but then Sinbad will arrive ala Shanks and make Hakuryuus army retreat imo.


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## ensoriki (May 29, 2015)

Alibaba gonna come down like Jesus.


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## Blunt (May 30, 2015)

i stopped reading right after the last war arc

and now they're going into another one???


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 30, 2015)

Blunt said:


> i stopped reading right after the last war arc
> 
> and now they're going into another one???



Yes and it shall be glorious 

Wars are not going to stop coming either. A king has to be chosen and that king will be alibaba. To become king alibaba is going to have to kill some bitches.


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## santanico (May 30, 2015)

King Alibaba, has a nice ring to it


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## Kellogem (May 30, 2015)

Yoshua said:


> If we're looking for characters to die, then I could see a couple of Kouen's house vessels dying, like that medusa one or the dragon one.



yeah, but it would have 0 impact... who gives a damn about those guys?

I think Kouen and maybe Kouha will die.. also insignificant characters like the old farts and household vessel users..

thinking about how Hakuei dying would play out..

Sindbad is going to have a role, but Hakuryuu must have a plan before his arrival something to do with the ninja girl I hope... this suddenly turning into a war between Kou and Sindria would be too rushed.

all the possibilities, cant wait... I hope this will be one real war, not something like the Magnostadt one-..


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 30, 2015)

Magnostadt not a real war.


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## Atlantic Storm (May 30, 2015)

If Sinbad is ruthless enough, he'll wait for Kouen's and Hakuryuu's respective sides to wear themselves out first, then swoop in and capitalise on the weakened Kou Empire.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 30, 2015)

Atlantic Storm said:


> If Sinbad is ruthless enough, he'll wait for Kouen's and Hakuryuu's respective sides to wear themselves out first, then swoop in and capitalise on the weakened Kou Empire.



If Sinbad is ruthless enough 

Is that a question. Sinbad im sure is loving this right now.


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## Kellogem (May 30, 2015)

Magnostadt first half, the fodder vs fodder was ok, but it turned into a joke after.. hardly got any decent fights from it.


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## Kiyumi (May 30, 2015)

WOAAAAAAA

I'M SO HYPED RIGHT NOW!!!!


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## santanico (May 30, 2015)

I'm hyped for this war. Also more adventures of Judar and Alibooboo pls Ohtaka :33


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## LordPerucho (May 31, 2015)

> 33.　*,513,118　Magi: The Labyrinth of Magic Vol.25
> 
> 50.　*,407,300　Magi: The Labyrinth of Magic Vol.24



Here is a proof Alma Toran flashback almost killed the series, they sold less than any FT volume this year.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 31, 2015)

A lot of crap sells less then fairy tall.


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## Fourangers (Jun 1, 2015)

It's probably just me, but I feel that Alibaba's doll version is kind of emotionless.  It's probably just me. I mean...he admitted he lost so easily, he didn't throw a tantrum or yelled.  I don't know, it's been a while since I read this manga, maybe he's not the type of doing the frustrated yell. 

Alibaba currently reminds me of this:


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## Kellogem (Jun 3, 2015)

Link removed


*Spoiler*: __ 



Hakuryuus zombie army is strong...

some emotional struggling and real war vibes this chapter..what a massacre. I think Hakuryuu is irredeemable now.

I think more zombies and plant monsters vs metal vessel users and household vessel users next time, than maybe move on to the gandpas fighting someone for 2 chapters, and then finally whatever surprise hakuryuu has vs metal vessel users.


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## crystalblade13 (Jun 3, 2015)

The new volume cover is godly! Belial hakuryuu and 3rd eye judar!!!


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jun 3, 2015)

That's a really good cover


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## santanico (Jun 3, 2015)

that cover is bad ass


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## Ftg07 (Jun 3, 2015)

Was just about post the cover seems like someone beat me to it : P Looks amazing.


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## Kellogem (Jun 8, 2015)

Chapter 165


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## Catalyst75 (Jun 8, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Hakuryuu brainwashed all of those people into freakin' monsters.  This is quite far into the deep end for anyone in any form of media.


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## ~VK~ (Jun 9, 2015)

So why the super slow translations? The irregular pace at which the chapters come out is really starting to affect my enjoyment of the arc.


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## santanico (Jun 9, 2015)

^same here, but it can't be helped


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## LordPerucho (Jun 10, 2015)

Only got to find Magi 268 translated in spanish

Link removed


*Spoiler*: __ 



The girls name(the one that is with Hakuryuu) is Nanaumi


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## Palm Siberia (Jun 12, 2015)

Catalyst75 said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Hakuryuu brainwashed all of those people into freakin' monsters.  This is quite far into the deep end for anyone in any form of media.





Sums it up pretty well lol


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## LordPerucho (Jun 14, 2015)

Finally 268 and 269 got translated in English.
Chapter 82

Chapter 82

Pretty much buildup chapters.


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## Gunners (Jun 17, 2015)

He's a bit of a sick fuck. Mind raping the characters so that they slaughter their own citizens, and putting people in a situation where they have to slaughter their own. He needs to be dealt with, putting friendship and reconciliation to the side.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jun 17, 2015)

Gunners said:


> He's a bit of a sick fuck. Mind raping the characters so that they slaughter their own citizens, and putting people in a situation where they have to slaughter their own. He needs to be dealt with, putting friendship and reconciliation to the side.



Dude is getting his Kingdom back bro.


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## santanico (Jun 17, 2015)

Hakuryuu cannot be redeemed


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## Kellogem (Jun 17, 2015)

what happens with the brainwashed soldiers rukh after death? if say Hakuryuu makes them fall into depravity with Belial, after death they go to Solomon or Il Illah?


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## Reyes (Jun 17, 2015)

starr said:


> Hakuryuu cannot be redeemed



If only Kouen would kill him this arc 

Hell this arc should only be about Alibaba and Judar adventures


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## Palm Siberia (Jun 20, 2015)

starr said:


> Hakuryuu cannot be redeemed



I've got two words for you friendship


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jun 22, 2015)

Started catching up with Sinbad. 



This is where it started. man is pure evil i tell you.


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## son_michael (Jun 22, 2015)

Palm Siberia said:


> I've got two words for you friendship



the word your looking for is Nakama 




Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Started catching up with Sinbad.
> 
> 
> 
> This is where it started. man is pure evil i tell you.



no he's half evil


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## santanico (Jun 22, 2015)

Sinbad is half fallen. I'm looking forward to him becoming fully fallen


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## LordPerucho (Jun 23, 2015)

Chapter 48

Hakuryuu still looks calm even after having a rough start.


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## The_Evil (Jun 23, 2015)

That strategy looks needlessly complex. Look at the size of those holes - they could just blown the whole army to bits with that firepower.


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## Kellogem (Jun 23, 2015)

The_Evil said:


> That strategy looks needlessly complex. Look at the size of those holes - they could just blown the whole army to bits with that firepower.



was thinking about that, but apparently they want to kill as few as possible..


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## The_Evil (Jun 23, 2015)

Kell?gem said:


> was thinking about that, but apparently they want to kill as few as possible..



But aren't those guys brainwashed to the point they will fight to the death anyway?

Besides


*Spoiler*: __ 



from the raws it looks like they are cooking them alive. That's brutal.


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## Kellogem (Jun 23, 2015)

The_Evil said:


> But aren't those guys brainwashed to the point they will fight to the death anyway?
> 
> Besides
> 
> ...



maybe they are hoping Hakuryuus death can turn them back... (which I think would happen if Belial wouldnt have any more influence over them, the issue is what would happen with Zagans plants inside them?)

..or whoever gets Belial can brainwash them back..


*Spoiler*: __ 



I think they want them to lose consciousness from dehydration and the heat and would extinguish the flames if they are not capable of fighting anymore, not cook them until death.. at least this is what I assume.


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## beyondsouske (Jun 24, 2015)

I think Belial is permanent, the only way they could become normal is if their convinced by the Kou empire that they were brainwashed into hating Kouen and he didn't kill their families.


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## Reznor (Jun 24, 2015)

This thread is now closed it has a continuation thread *Here*


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