# OP vs. Naruto



## Agmaster (Jan 28, 2008)

As one of the few travelers of more than one subforum here, I recently discovered that a debate had begun in the OP section.  The classic tale of pirates and ninjas.  But it was bias.  So painfully bias.  In the interest of fairness, I've decided to present this same question here.  The reason this is in library is because going by manga will give people the most content to discuss the boons and banes of these series.  

And so I quote Jetstorm, because taking credit for this is ...unjust.

"Starting this back up since it has been a more than a year since the last incarnation which resides in the archives. A good number of things have happened in both stories since then.

Which is the better series in your opinion? Factors can include character development, plot, potential, art style, or anything within reason.

Flame, spam, or troll and I'll give you a beating."

Of course, I am not such a violent individual.


----------



## Kabuto (Jan 28, 2008)

_-snip-_

Well, its obvious that OP has better stories and characters. At least in my honest opinion. Luffy >> Naruto. Zoro >> Sasuke. Crocodile >>> Every villain in Naruto. Simple as that.


----------



## masamune1 (Jan 28, 2008)

Funnily enough, I too went onto the One Piece Forum and saw this just a few days ago.

Honestly, I don't expect much of a difference in opinion. The only thing that might be different is that, unlike the OP-tards, the Naruto-tards are unlikely to keep on bringing up or jumping on these type's of thread and saying how much better it is than the other Manga's.

As far as the Series itself goes, (as opposed to characters, eg. Sasuke-tards) the Naruto-tard is a humble sort.

_-snip-_

Pretty much everyone is going to say OP>Naruto. Trust me.


----------



## Broleta (Jan 28, 2008)

masamune1 said:


> Pretty much everyone is going to say OP>Naruto. Trust me.



I know (because it clearly is) but there's still no logic behind making the thread here.


----------



## masamune1 (Jan 28, 2008)

Broleta said:


> I know (because it clearly is) but there's still no logic behind making the thread here.



Because the threadstarter is curious; to get a different opinion.

Which they won't.


----------



## Xyfar (Jan 28, 2008)

lol pirates


----------



## PisOgPapir (Jan 28, 2008)

Naruto is better.
Since i haven't watched OP 
Maybe i should.


----------



## Sasuke (Jan 28, 2008)

Naruto is better.

Sasuke>>The entire OP universe


----------



## Broleta (Jan 28, 2008)

Agmaster said:


> I recently discovered that a debate had begun in the OP section.  The classic tale of pirates and ninjas.  But it was bias.





Sasuke said:


> Naruto is better.
> 
> Sasuke>>The entire OP universe



..........

lol


----------



## Foxy (Jan 28, 2008)

*a year or so ago i would have said naruto. but lately i've found the naruto storyline to be going a bit downhill.
i still love the series and have faith that it'll get better, but lately i've been taking a very strong interest in one piece. the stories have remained fun and fresh throughout the entire series so far, so i'm really enjoying it.*


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jan 28, 2008)

Naruto part 1 was extremely good and was what really got me into anime/manga in general. It was close if not on par with OP.

But with Naruto part 2 IMO being utter shit compared to part 1 so far apart from the revelation of Pein and the Sasori fight, and OP is still very interesting for me so.

The conclusion for me is that OP > Naruto.


----------



## Shinkirou (Jan 28, 2008)

One Piece, forever and always. Better characters, better action, more unique/diverse cast of characters, powers and personalities. I also find it funnier with much more emotion packed into it. I mean for fuck sake, I came closer to crying when their fucking _ship_ died then I have with all sad scenes in Naruto put together to the 10th power. I also like the art just as much, if not more than Narutos.


----------



## sworder (Jan 28, 2008)

The only cool guy in OP was Rob Lucci and Oda killed him


----------



## GduBz (Jan 28, 2008)

Naruto in part one was by far my favorite series, but part two has been lacking severly. As of now, OP is the manga that I look forward to the most. The characters are far more intresting, the story could go on forever, and the humor is actually very funny.

If you haven't read/seen it, I would suggest it 100%


----------



## Maycara (Jan 28, 2008)

To answer this i'll direct you to the post i made for why i think Kishi is the greatest shoun writer....



Minzara said:


> People complain about how fights end in this manga. Apperently extremely strong enemies dying to little genins. But thats the whole point, and great story telling that is Kishi, its different, and orin, unlike all other shouen.
> 
> 
> Thats just how it works in a world of NINJAS. This isnt DBZ! This isnt Bleach! This isnt One Piece! You need more then power to defeat you enemys, simply out smarting a enemy can beat someone way stronger then you. and I love this, cause is brings a human nature to a manga with giant frogs, and snakes. I mean if we go by scale of power in the real world, the president is undeniable the strongest man alive, yet he can be beaten with a simple gun shot to the head. Naruto is alot like this, and THATS what makes it the best shouen ever.
> ...


----------



## 'REDHAIRED' SHANKS (Jan 28, 2008)

Minzara said:


> To answer this i'll direct you to the post i made for why i think Kishi is the greatest shoun writer....



I am sorry but how many manga series have you read ?? 
there are a lot of shounen with better story and artwork than naruto ..... FMA, JJBA, HxH, Hikaru no Go, Kekkaishi,  are a few that come to the top of my mind ... and Death Note *is* shounen


----------



## Gyroscope (Jan 28, 2008)

One Piece. By far. I'm a fan of epic length stories and Naruto just has a very limited scope despite having a massive potential. For instance, Kishi could have definitely made use of the other ninja villages and characters instead of focusing on just two people. OP does this very well.

Better action, better characters, funnier, more streamlined while Naruto tends to get very messy at certain parts, and a huge diversity as far as art is concerned. 

And when villains claim to be gods in OP, they usually have what it takes to back that statement up. Lol Pein .

One thing Kishi does better though is choreographing clever tactics into his fights whereas in OP it's just a question of getting stronger and blitzing through the opponent.


----------



## tictactoc (Jan 28, 2008)

The opinions won't change here OP. People hate Naruto on this forum.


----------



## Maycara (Jan 28, 2008)

'REDHAIRED' SHANKS said:


> I am sorry but how many manga series have you read ??
> there are a lot of shounen with better story and artwork than naruto ..... FMA, JJBA, HxH, Hikaru no Go, Kekkaishi,  are a few that come to the top of my mind ... and Death Note *is* shounen



Ive read Dragon ball,FMA,HxH, Hikaru no Go, Yu Yu Hakusho, One Piece, Bleach,Saint Saiya Rouni Kenshin, Shaman King and maybe a few others and Death Note,and IMO its not, its just too epic of a story. Death Note is the single greatest thing ive ever read, i cant put it in with shouen, because shouen is mostly action. I am sorry, I just can't, its just too fucking good.


----------



## Rikudou (Jan 28, 2008)

As I heard the name One Piece quite often and many friends recommended it to me, I honestly tried to read it. I wanted to start from the beginning and read it all and I had high hopes. Many people said they preferred OP over Naruto, so I got really excited.
Once I looked at the first couple of pages I noticed something that deterred enormously from reading it...:
The art was* BUTT UGLY!*.

Seriously, I couldn't get over the ugliness. I couldn't find myself supporting ANY character, since they all were drawn butt ugly.
I skipped like 200 chapters, hoping he would improve his art just like Kishimoto did, but it was still *BUTT UGLY*.

I just can't take it seriously, I'm sorry.
Since Naruto I started many other manga like Full metal Alchemist and Flame of Recca, but One Piece is just too ugly for me.


----------



## KLoWn (Jan 28, 2008)

I'll say the same as i did in the other thread, i like 'em equally, both have their ups & downs, but both of 'em keeps me coming back for more.


----------



## AkuOni (Jan 28, 2008)

I prefer Naruto, the characters are much more realistic and flawed, One Piece has alot of cartoony, one deminsional superheroes that only speak volumes of action and generic build up rather than character. The Main character Luffy in one piece, is shallow and very basic who always stays the same and never develops or struggles as a character in a human sense, but for Naruto as the main character. Naruto has more character and is twice more interesting than Luffy. And I don't even like Naruto anymore. Zoro is kinda cool but I prefer Sasuke as a rival lead. The rest like Sakura Kakashi Hinata and Shikamaru I like them more than Nami, Chopper, Ussop and Sanji. The cyborg guy and the jack ripoff don't help much either. The plotline in Naruto is very epic and awesome to be tuned in, One Pieces plot is like a consistant disney cartoon with alot of crazy generic plot twists and such. Doesn't attract my tastes, it's too childish. But it is funny, and thats the reason I think it's a great manga, but not one of my favorites, but for overall quality, Naruto hands down.


----------



## Broleta (Jan 28, 2008)

AkuOni said:


> I prefer Naruto, the characters are much more realistic and flawed, One Piece has alot of cartoony, one deminsional superheroes that only speak volumes of action and generic build up rather than character. The Main character Luffy in one piece, is shallow and very basic who always stays the same and never develops or struggles as a character in a human sense, but for Naruto as the main character. Naruto has more character and is twice more interesting than Luffy. And I don't even like Naruto anymore. Zoro is kinda cool but I prefer Sasuke as a rival lead. The rest like Sakura Kakashi Hinata and Shikamaru I like them more than Nami, Chopper, Ussop and Sanji. The cyborg guy and the jack ripoff don't help much either. The plotline in Naruto is very epic and awesome to be tuned in, One Pieces plot is like a consistant disney cartoon with alot of crazy generic plot twists and such. Doesn't attract my tastes, it's too childish. But it is funny, and thats the reason I think it's a great manga, but not one of my favorites, but for overall quality, Naruto hands down.



So how much have you read of One Piece? Seems like you watched the first 10 episodes on 4kids tv or something. For a start Luffy has at least 2 dimensions: idiot and badass.


----------



## AkuOni (Jan 28, 2008)

Broleta said:


> So how much have you read of One Piece? Seems like you watched the first 10 episodes on 4kids tv or something. For a start Luffy has at least 2 dimensions: idiot and badass.


Well not to be somewhat of a downer, but I've read about all of the one piece manga and I only tune in for the humor, the rest is just plain overpowered DBZ plot twists and Luffy is a consistant Goku ripoff that has no quality character when he fights people, this is just my opinion. And Luffy's badassness can only go so far, not to far if you ask me. His attacks are basically the same things of gomu gomu hax. Plus his angry super sayian attitude when he fights someone makes everything poor, simple, and totally souless. It's predictible and a chip off the old DBZ block.


----------



## Zephos (Jan 28, 2008)

AkuOni said:


> Well not to be somewhat of a downer, but I've read about all of the one piece manga and I only tune in for the humor, the rest is just plain overpowered DBZ plot twists and Luffy is a consistant Goku ripoff that has no quality character when he fights people, this is just my opinion. And Luffy's badassness can only go so far, not to far if you ask me. His attacks are basically the same things of gomu gomu hax. Plus his angry super sayian attitude when he fights someone makes everything poor, simple, and totally souless. It's predictible and a chip off the old DBZ block.



Define "all of the one piece manga" beacuse there's plenty of blatant examples of things that contradict what your saying.

The idea that half of OPs stories are disney movies is hilarious.
Let alone that its for a group younger than naruto of all things.


----------



## Sengoku (Jan 28, 2008)

AkuOni said:


> Well not to be somewhat of a downer, but I've read about all of the one piece manga and I only tune in for the humor, the rest is just plain overpowered DBZ plot twists and Luffy is a consistant Goku ripoff that has no quality character when he fights people, this is just my opinion. And Luffy's badassness can only go so far, not to far if you ask me. His attacks are basically the same things of gomu gomu hax. Plus his angry super sayian attitude when he fights someone makes everything poor, simple, and totally souless. It's predictible and a chip off the old DBZ block.



ok so tell us, that is if you read the manga

where is crocodile located? who is kuma exactly?
how did luffy beat lucci

answer those please


----------



## Agmaster (Jan 28, 2008)

I'd like him to answer this.  How did Pell die?


----------



## Noushi (Jan 28, 2008)

One Piece has more interesting characters, and the One Piece universe is a lot more exciting than Naruto's.


----------



## Maycara (Jan 28, 2008)

Sengoku said:


> ok so tell us, that is if you read the manga
> 
> where is crocodile located? who is kuma exactly?
> how did luffy beat lucci
> ...



I CAN Answer those! And still say Naruto is better then OP!!!

Alabaster or whatever


Kuma is thriller bark I believe, because I havent finished that arc, yet, and havent heard of him thus far...


and jet pistol repeated punch thing THROUGH THE WALL!! 

Naruto>OP


----------



## Gyroscope (Jan 28, 2008)

Rikudou said:


> As I heard the name One Piece quite often and many friends recommended it to me, I honestly tried to read it. I wanted to start from the beginning and read it all and I had high hopes. Many people said they preferred OP over Naruto, so I got really excited.
> Once I looked at the first couple of pages I noticed something that deterred enormously from reading it...:
> The art was* BUTT UGLY!*.
> 
> ...



Well at least your willing to admit you're shallow 

Eventually the art grows on you and does indeed get a lot better later on. The backdrops to some of the scenes are amazing. More than I can say for trees, trees, people hopping in the middle of a forest, more trees, and some randomly arranged buildings and pipes.


----------



## Zephos (Jan 28, 2008)

Minzara said:


> I CAN Answer those! And still say Naruto is better then OP!!!
> 
> Alabaster or whatever
> 
> ...



Btw, I hit your post out of the park on the other thread.


----------



## Sengoku (Jan 28, 2008)

Minzara said:


> I CAN Answer those! And still say Naruto is better then OP!!!
> 
> Alabaster or whatever
> 
> ...



why are you so quick to answer for him?

scared for your biased friend?

lets break down your answers (im not going to tell you if they are right or wrong)
where is crocodile located? 
"Alabaster or whatever." 
Any OP reader would know the answer to this.


who is kuma exactly?
"Kuma is thriller bark I believe, because I havent finished that arc, yet, and havent heard of him thus far..."
how old are you again? im asking WHO is kuma. NOT where he's at.

how did luffy beat lucci?
"and jet pistol repeated punch thing THROUGH THE WALL!! "
jet pistol repeated punch thing... riiiiight.
i rest my case.


----------



## AkuOni (Jan 28, 2008)

Sengoku said:


> ok so tell us, that is if you read the manga
> 
> where is crocodile located? who is kuma exactly?
> how did luffy beat lucci
> ...


Well okay, Sir Crocodile was one of the warlords of the sea and he hails in alabasta at the point, he weilds a logica fruit that allows him to control sand. Has a gold hook, looks like a Mafia Boss, can dehadrete your body and can get pwned by blood or water.

 Kuma is a cyborg modified by Dr. Vegapunk. He is however unlike Franky. He has a strong steel body that is able to withstand most attacks, as noted by Sanji who instead felt pain himself after kicking Kuma's face. With his modifications, he is as of yet an incomplete weapon of the World Government and the Marines, called a "Pacifis has been ordered by thw world goverment to kill and stop pirates and is bascially the ugliest character next to Don flamingo and Franky.

Lucci got pwned by the biggest plot no jutsu in one piece to date a gear 2 luffy doing gattling gun after he was roku'd by Luuci in the stomach.

Their happy.


----------



## Maycara (Jan 28, 2008)

Sengoku said:


> why are you so quick to answer for him?
> 
> scared for your biased friend?



Naw, actually he kind of annoys me, I just felt like doing it for the hell of it. because I believe Naruto is better then OP for the alot of/ not all the same reason he does. and I figure he was just bashing...like he usually does...


----------



## AkuOni (Jan 28, 2008)

Minzara said:


> Naw, actually he kind of annoys me, I just felt like doing it for the hell of it. because I believe Naruto is better then OP for the alot of/ not all the same reason he does. and I figure he was just bashing...like he usually does...


What the hell, how do I annoy you? I don't even know you.

And bash? When have I ever bashed something?


----------



## Zephos (Jan 28, 2008)

AkuOni said:


> Well okay, Sir Crocodile was one of the
> Lucci got pwned by the biggest plot no jutsu in one piece to date a gear 2 luffy doing gattling gun after he was roku'd by Luuci in the stomach.
> 
> Their happy.



Those were poor questions being as wiki is available.
What is Smoker's reaction to being awarded the title of "man who brought in Crocodile"?

Luffy had been Shiganned' in the stomach plenty already, its not like more was going to take him down for sure. He was getting tired and low on morale was the problem, seeing Usopp again when he thought Usopp was gone for good gave him the morale boost he needed to push one more hit in.


----------



## Sengoku (Jan 28, 2008)

ah yeah. i shoulve known wiki was available lulz 

thanks, zephos


----------



## Maycara (Jan 28, 2008)

Zephos said:


> Btw, I hit your post out of the park on the other thread.



Ball park huh?



Sengoku said:


> why are you so quick to answer for him?
> 
> scared for your biased friend?
> 
> ...



Fuck i dont remember the exact details, but i remember what happen, not the exact names, and I TOLD YOU READ MY POST I HAVE NOT FINISHED THRILLER BARK YET, CHIRST!



AkuOni said:


> What the hell, how do I annoy you? I don't even know you.
> 
> And bash? When have I ever bashed something?




Alot of your posts in the telegrams.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jan 28, 2008)

Minzara said:


> I CAN Answer those! And still say Naruto is better then OP!!!
> 
> Alabaster or whatever
> 
> ...



Doesnt look like you have a clue whatsoever of which questions you answered  to..

Maybe watch/read entire One Piece first and then say what you think is best of OP and naruto


----------



## tictactoc (Jan 28, 2008)

lol @asking questions "omg you don't like OP ? Pretty sure you didn't read the manga, answer that, that and that."


----------



## Maycara (Jan 28, 2008)

Kweck said:


> Doesnt look like you have a clue whatsoever of which questions you answered  to..
> 
> Maybe watch/read entire One Piece first and then say what you think is best of OP and naruto



Ive read about 10 or so chapters into thirller bark, so I know alot of about OP, and if we go by about how many chapters OP is in, and Naruto is in, OP is about 100 chapters ahead, so i dont think it matters, it just means i am judgeing them more a even playing field since OP is a bit futher ahead. And fing chirst, he did do something like that to luchi I remember the fucking rabid punc bullshit, then him laying on the boat? or was that after luffy turn his fist real big with gear third. whatever the case, Ive read up to thirller bark in one piece.


----------



## Sengoku (Jan 28, 2008)

tictactoc said:


> lol @asking questions "omg you don't like OP ? Pretty sure you didn't read the manga, answer that, that and that."



only to entertain people like you 


seriously, where is akuoni 

hes kind of taking forever to research the answer


----------



## Jesus (Jan 28, 2008)

can't stand the art in OP. it's that simple really, I just can't take the characters seriously.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jan 28, 2008)

Minzara said:


> Ive read about 10 or so chapters into thirller bark, so I know alot of about OP, and if we go by about how many chapters OP is in, and Naruto is in, OP is about 100 chapters ahead, so i dont think it matters, it just means i am judgeing them more a even playing field since OP is a bit futher ahead. And fing chirst, he did do something like that to luchi I remember the fucking rabid punc bullshit, then him lady on the boat? or was that after he turn his fist real big with gear third. whatever the case, Ive read up to thirller bark in one piece.



I see. Just thought your answers was abit lacking considering u read that far ^^


----------



## Maycara (Jan 28, 2008)

Kweck said:


> I see. Just thought your answers was abit lacking considering u read that far ^^



I dont usually go in detail about stuff, I am short and to the point. And like I said I LOVE ONE PIECE! Its better then Bleach, and DB, but I just believe Naruto is better then it.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jan 28, 2008)

Minzara said:


> I dont usually go in detail about stuff, I am short and to the point. And like I said I LOVE ONE PIECE! Its better then Bleach, and DB, but I just believe Naruto is better then it.



Havent watched DB as it doesnt look appealing to me. As for Bleach i think its better than Naruto and has been for a while now.

Naruto hasnt been good since part 1 with a few exceptions, while Bleach i still find interesting even though HM arc isnt nearly as good as SS, still decent though.

Speaking animewise btw not manga.


----------



## Maycara (Jan 28, 2008)

Kweck said:


> Havent watched DB as it doesnt look appealing to me. As for Bleach i think its better than Naruto and has been for a while now.
> 
> Naruto hasnt been good since part 1 with a few exceptions, while Bleach i still find interesting even though HM arc isnt nearly as good as SS, still decent though.
> 
> Speaking animewise btw not manga.



See I used to love Bleach Kenpachi is one of my fav characters of all time. But after the SS arc...Bleach has just sucked balls, I find it boring, i still read/watch it..but only because i've invested so much time into it.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jan 28, 2008)

Minzara said:


> See I used to love Bleach Kenpachi is one of my fav characters of all time. But after the SS arc...Bleach has just sucked balls, I find it boring, i still read/watch it..but only because i've invested so much time into it.



I think the arrancar arc was good, HM started off abit bad but i liked the Rukia vs Kaien fight.

Anyway going too much OT here so, i believe OP > Naruto and that wont change until something major happens with Naruto part 2.

Dont have much hopes for that though based on what people are saying and not to mention its way to much Uchiha and too little off everything else:/


----------



## Cochise (Jan 28, 2008)

Cochise said:


> When Naruto was trying to retreive Sasuke, he cried, he pouted, he made a fool of himself.
> 
> When Luffy was trying to retrieve Robin, he was picking his nose.
> 
> One Piece >>>>>> Naruto.



Quoting myself from the OP section.


----------



## Lezard Valeth (Jan 28, 2008)

OP is a piece of shit.
Even my 7yo bro complained it was too childish.

If you really like OP... it's hopeless...


----------



## Sengoku (Jan 28, 2008)

Cochise said:


> Quoting myself from the OP section.



i'm assuming 4kids.
i guess naruto fans would never learn.

only in naruto i guess


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jan 28, 2008)

The J-Man said:


> OP is a piece of shit.
> Even my 7yo bro complained it was too childish.
> 
> If you really like OP... it's hopeless...



Haha statement of the day 

Care to actually post some arguments instead?


----------



## Hagen (Jan 28, 2008)

I havent read OP in months, since i discovered the story was going nowhere.

Right now, im sick of the same:

Fight-> travel to new island -> new enemy -> luffy and co. pulls new techniques out of their asses -> fight ->travel to new island -> new enemy -> luffy and co. pulls new techniques out of their asses ->fight -> ......

Moreover, Oda doesnt know the meaning of something called "character development"
The characters never advance, they're the same since the beginning, and most of them are stupidly childish (usopp anyone?)  

Well, on a second thought, i shouldn't be bothered, because after all, OP is a manga meant for lil' kids only. I think that's my problem with OP, that everything is so damn kiddish (woooo! i forgot nobody dies ) than sometimes i cant stand it.

Im gonna wait half a year more to see if the plot advances in the slightest, then i'll start to read OP again, probably.(the fights are good)

on a third thought, i shouldn't be even paying attention to this thread and OP's fandom  silly attempts to start flame wars, as they always do *leaves*

oh i forgot:

Naruto  >  OP

*LEAVES*


----------



## Maycara (Jan 28, 2008)

Kweck said:


> Haha statement of the day
> 
> Care to actually post some arguments instead?



Sadly it seems im the only Naruto fan that does point out points....


----------



## AkuOni (Jan 28, 2008)

Locard said:


> I havent read OP in months, since i discovered the story was going nowhere.
> 
> Right now, im sick of the same:
> 
> ...


What he said, I just don't find One Piece as interesting as Naruto.


----------



## Cochise (Jan 28, 2008)

The J-Man said:


> OP is a piece of shit.
> Even my 7yo bro complained it was too childish.
> 
> If you really like OP... it's hopeless...



Do you actually read One Piece? Naruto is more childish than Luffy, if it's the art stlye you dislike then whatever, but One Piece's story crushes Naruto.


----------



## c3zz4rr (Jan 28, 2008)

Locard said:


> I havent read OP in months, since i discovered the story was going nowhere.
> 
> Right now, im sick of the same:
> 
> ...



yep....thats kinda true.....op is childish.....wtf characters of 5 m (16 feet) like kuma or moria or whitebeard.........and also the characters are so childish,in a real fight like zoro vs. mihawk ,i couldn't concentrate on the battle because ussop was present.....his reactions were so fucked up

naruto>one piece


----------



## blackrose 666 (Jan 28, 2008)

Rikudou said:


> As I heard the name One Piece quite often and many friends recommended it to me, I honestly tried to read it. I wanted to start from the beginning and read it all and I had high hopes. Many people said they preferred OP over Naruto, so I got really excited.
> Once I looked at the first couple of pages I noticed something that deterred enormously from reading it...:
> The art was* BUTT UGLY!*.
> 
> ...



i agree completly! especially the girls look ridicoulus


----------



## blackrose 666 (Jan 28, 2008)

Locard said:


> I havent read OP in months, since i discovered the story was going nowhere.
> 
> Right now, im sick of the same:
> 
> ...



here i agree again i remember in the skypia arc i thought so many people died and was sad because of it,but when the fight was over i discovered that everybody was alive,despite being hit by an 1milo volt flash
the only things that were really sad were the past of each characters because there was actually something called "death"


----------



## Sengoku (Jan 28, 2008)

Locard said:


> I havent read OP in months, since i discovered the story was going nowhere.
> 
> Right now, im sick of the same:
> 
> ...



i'm glad Kimimaro died.

anyway, what the hell are you spewing? It is clearly evident that you have NEVER gone past episode 10.
No one has died? wow, I may like One Piece better than Naruto but i'm DEFINITELY not that biased. 

again, only lovers of naruto i guess.


----------



## Die KWGOD Die (Jan 28, 2008)

SIEG HEIL!!!!


----------



## legendoflink3 (Jan 28, 2008)

Well i can't really judge op against naruto because i don't watch it. But i happen to think that naruto as a whole is the best manga series there is. Thats my opinion.

But if you ask about pirates vs ninjas. I'll give you the most accurate answer.
pirates fight people............
Ninja ..... Just Kill people
You be the judge. and im not just talking about naruto ninjas im saying it as it is.


----------



## Sengoku (Jan 28, 2008)

legendoflink3 said:


> Well i can't really judge op against naruto because i don't watch it. But i happen to think that naruto as a whole is the best manga series there is. Thats my opinion.
> 
> But if you ask about pirates vs ninjas. I'll give you the most accurate answer.
> pirates fight people............
> ...



you are probably the few that i actually respect so far.

but mind if i correct your statement?

pirates pillage/rape villages
ninja....just kill people


----------



## tictactoc (Jan 28, 2008)

Sengoku said:


> i'm glad Kimimaro died.
> 
> anyway, what the hell are you spewing? It is clearly evident that you have NEVER gone past episode 10.
> No one has died? wow, I may like One Piece better than Naruto but i'm DEFINITELY not that biased.
> ...



Hmm except 2 fodders and people in flashbacks... No one die


----------



## Supa Swag (Jan 28, 2008)

I'm really getting sick and fucking tired of the One Piece/Naruto argument.

Yes, they're both popular fighting shounen, but that's it. Naruto relies on a sense of realism (and most of the time fails at that). One Piece  is completely over the top. 

ONE PIECE IS NOT MEANT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY. Anyone who does and says I can't take it seriously" and calls it childish is a fucking moron, period. The art is completely exaggerated (you got 20 foot people walking around as if it's an everyday thing, big noses, ALL women have slim waists and big breasts), emotions are either really shocked or REALLY happy or REALLY mad or REALLY sad (sadness being shown with tears running down their eyes like waterfalls, shocked expressions are shown with wide eyes and wide mouths) strengths are out of this world (people throw ships and houses like baseballs), and there is so much more I can't be bothered to explain it.

But that is why I enjoy One Piece more than Naruto. It does what it's supposed to do. It never really takes itself seriously, but can create intense dramatic moments. The art, atmosphere, world, characters, abilities all fit with one another like a puzzle. It also has intriguing stories waiting to be told (World Government erasing 100 years, Rio poneglyphs, Dr. Vegapunk, the Will of D, Gol D. Rogers true intentions, inevitable war between the WG and pirates). The island visiting can be seen as monotonous, but this is an adventure series, it's to be expected.

Naruto has great moments, but often has low points, and Part II has a number of them. Hidan/Kakuzu arc, Sasuke/Sai arc, Karin, Juugo. The worst would have to be how Naruto became such a "Konoha is the entire world" story. The series has a wonderful world (with Kiri being the best) but we hear NOTHING about it. A group of S-class criminals are taking their strongest weapons and besides Konoha and Suna they're saying "lol ok buhbye!" while they go back to twiddling their fucking thumbs. If Naruto implements the other viallges in the future I truly believe it can be on par with One Piece's level just like it was for most of Part 1.


----------



## masamune1 (Jan 28, 2008)

There is one, Core, reason as to why One Pice is generally considered (as far as I can tell) to be more popular than Naruto (in my opinion). Not the only reason, but the Core one.

This reason, everyone, is the difference in Themes.

The main themes of each Manga are, in order of importance:

_*One Piece*_

*1.* Freedom.
*2.* Dreams
*3.* Determination
*4.* Bonds

_*Naruto*_

*1.* Bonds
*2.* Determination (more specifically Hard Work)
*3.* Social Responsibility
*4.* Dreams


THis is'nt to say that Luffy is'nt totally irresponsible- that is, if he sees someone in trouble he'll generally try and help them; nor does it mean that Naruto does'nt care about Freedom. These are just to do with the different issues and challenges the characters in each Manga are going to get involed in.

The primary theme of each- Freedom and Bonds- is the common factor that each of their major villains have set themselves against (which is partly why I've ordered them in this way). 

In One Piece, guys like Crocodile, Enel, an CP9- and of course the World Government-all represent anti-Freedom, the freedom of Countries and of People, and that is what really defines them as a One Piece villain. Some, like Don Flamingo, are dedicated to crushing Dreams, the Secondary theme.

In Naruto, Akatsuki represent the cutting of their Bonds by the scratches htrough their forehead protectors, and the Sound through the lack of them (towards the end of Part 1 onwards); they are defined as Naruto villains by their rejection of, or inability to form, meaningful Bonds with other people. 
Most-like Sasori, Orochimaru etc-skip Naruto's Secobdary theme of Hard Work
via all of the horrific alterations they have down to their own bodies, cheating Hard Work in a bid for more Power.

The likes of Pain and Blackbeard represent anomalies to this Theme, with their purpose being to represent almost the "dark side" of what the Heroes represent, be it Pain's murderous plans to bond the human race to himself through pain, or Blackbeards freedom and dreams leading him to theft, betrayal and murder. 
The _Shichibukai_ and the other Villages like the Mist represent a kind of mid-point between these two extremes- freedom-loving Pirates working for an oppressive World Government, and Villages that want loyalty to them but ruthlessness towards everybody else. anti-heroes like Smoker and Akoiji, and Gaara and Sasuke, are also mid-points.

The main reason that One Piece is more popular han Naruto is that it's Themes are more popular than Naruto's. People around here like One Piece because it is about Adventure, Dreams, and just generally enjoying yourself. Naruto is a slightly darker Manga- though One Piece's villains are nastier pieces of work- that stresses the importance of Bond's and Responsibilities, and while Naruto still pursues his Dreams he has put it on hold for his goal of saving Sasuke.

People complain about Naruto for that, that Naruto is now more concerned with saving (or stalking) Sasuke than pursuing his Dreams, or even changing the ninja worlds problems like he vowed to in Part 1 (eg. changing the Hyuuga's). Generally, they came to Naruto thinking that it's man themes were the one's that One Piece was about, and they just happen to like One Piece's themes better.

Well that was pretty intellectual, but the point remais: One Piece just seems to have more popular themes than Naruto does.


----------



## kyuubi (Jan 28, 2008)

I simply do not like OP, and besides, everyone is entitled to their opinion. So far what I have seen is OP fans mauling people who prefer Naruto. For Pete's sake!

Call me shallow, bias, or what the hell ever, I just could never get into OP, and yeah, I agree, Naruto has it low points, but I still prefer it over OP. Maybe one day I'll force myself to sit down and read/watch OP and maybe I'll start to like it, but until then I will consider Naruto better.


----------



## AkuOni (Jan 28, 2008)

Naruto is also smarter than Luffy.


----------



## Fang (Jan 28, 2008)

No he isn't.

But then you don't read One Piece, so what can we say on that issue?


----------



## Trivub (Jan 28, 2008)

but i thought you were all naruto fans?


----------



## Supa Swag (Jan 28, 2008)

AkuOni said:


> Naruto is also smarter than Luffy.




Luffy acts retarded, but he's not dumb.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jan 28, 2008)

AkuOni said:


> Naruto is also smarter than Luffy.



Depends what kinda smart u mean, if u mean battlesmart he is smarter than Naruto.

But outside battle he is dumber IMO, in a funny way


----------



## Sengoku (Jan 28, 2008)

TWF said:


> No he isn't.
> 
> But then you don't read One Piece, so what can we say on that issue?



thats okay, TWF.
He has yet to answer zephos's question.

or perhaps he already has the answer after the long research for it. :|


----------



## Furious George (Jan 28, 2008)

kyuubi said:


> I simply do not like OP, and besides, everyone is entitled to their opinion. So far what I have seen is OP fans mauling people who prefer Naruto. For Pete's sake!
> 
> Call me shallow, bias, or what the hell ever, I just could never get into OP, and yeah, I agree, Naruto has it low points, but I still prefer it over OP. Maybe one day I'll force myself to sit down and read/watch OP and maybe I'll start to like it, but until then I will consider Naruto better.



Ugh. I am so tired of these kind of responses. This thread was clearly put here for the purpose of debating opinions. The point of them is to dicuss your opinions. Grow a pair, or just don't post in them at all.


----------



## Sengoku (Jan 28, 2008)

Kweck said:


> Depends what kinda smart u mean, if u mean battlesmart he is smarter than Naruto.
> 
> But outside battle he is dumber IMO, in a funny way



i rather have luffy by my side than naruto 
and yeah i agree with your post.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jan 28, 2008)

Sengoku said:


> i rather have luffy by my side than naruto
> and yeah i agree with your post.



Ye, he is way more reliable i have to say, it stands respect out of the way he cares for his nakama.

One of the things that makes Luffy more badass as a character imo.


----------



## kyuubi (Jan 28, 2008)

Cyckness said:


> Ugh. I am so tired of these kind of responses. This thread was clearly put here for the purpose of debating opinions. The point of them is to dicuss your opinions. Grow a pair, or just don't post in them at all.



I've stated my opinion, is that not what you want?  I browsed over this thread and it plunged in the depths of hell with some serious bashing.  

It all comes down to the fact that it is YOUR opinion.  The thread title states OP vs. Naruto, I like Naruto more.  I gave my reason why, if I came off as a negative light I apologize.  But if you wanted me to go on and on why I prefer Naruto more than OP I simply can't.  I would be deluding myself if I pulled facts out my arse against OP.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jan 28, 2008)

http://forums.narutofan.com/showpost.php?p=13324463&postcount=27

When comparing Part I of Naruto to One Piece, I'd say I like each almost as much as the other, with each story being about as good as the other. Part II on the other hand, seems vastly inferior to its predecessor and One Piece.


----------



## Maycara (Jan 28, 2008)

posted this in the other one...might as well here too OP/Naruto fight comparisons

HERE WE GO!!!

Luffy VS Alvida
Victory: Power

Lufffy VS Morgan
Victory: Power

Zoro VS Freak on bike
Victory: Power

Luffy VS Buggy
Victory: Power/Tactics (Debatable since Nami kind of help.)

Zoro vs. Cat dude, and dog man
Victory: Power

Luffy VS Kuro
Victory: Power (some might say tactics because he judge where the Kuro was coming next, but that?s related to Luffy?s power , that wasn?t tactics. No outsmarting)

Zoro VS Mihawk
Victory: Power

Sanji VS Gin
Victory: Power

????(was it Luffy or Sanji or both? O.o) Vs Pearl
Victory: Tactics If I remember

Luffy VS Don
Victory: Power/Tactics (again debatable since the whole armour breaking thing. I think it was a mix of both)

Ussop VS Big Lipped fish dude
Victory: Tactics

Sanji VS shark arms dude
Victory: Power

Zoro VS 4 arm dude
Victory: Power

Luffy VS Arlong
Victory: Power

Smoker VS Luffy
Victory: Power (No one really won though..Luffy kind of ran..)

Zoro VS Everyone at whiskey peak
Victory: Tactics/Power (mix of both)

Luffy VS Zoro
Victory: No victory?but Power would have decided the winner..lol

Giant VS Gaint
Victory: Trickery O.o
Giant VS Luffy
Victory: Power

Luffy VS Mr.3(I believe it was him)
Victory: Uhh?I at lost here. Mix of a lot of stuff?lol

Chopper VS Weird dudes
Victory: Tactics

Luffy VS Metal jaw guy
Victory: Power

Luffy VS Croc (round 1)
Victory: Power

Round 2
Victory: Tactics

Round 3
Victory: Power

Nami VS Weird lady
Victory: Tactics

Chopper and Ussop VS Santa lady, and dude.
Victory: Tactics

Sanji VS Mr2
Victory: Power

Zoro VS Mr.1
Victory: Power

Luffy,Ussop,Sanji VS Fat dude
Victory: Tactics/Power

Ohm VS Zoro
Victory: Power

Chopper VS Tall dude
Victory: Tactics

Rodin VS Fat dude # 2
Victory: Power

Luffy VS Enel
Victory: Power

Zoro and Sanji VS Weird dudes in davy back fight
Victory: Tactics

Luffy VS Davy
Victory: THE AFRO!!! Sorry had too?Uh Power

Aojkin VS Luffy and the gang
Victory: Power

Franky VS Luffy
Victory: No winner

Luffy VS Ship builders
Victory: No winner

Ussop VS Luffy
Victory: Power/Tactics?Ussop used a lot of tactics..but still lost?

Starwhats VS CP9
Victory: Power

Sanji VS Noodle dude
Victory: Power/Tactics

Franky VS Nero
Victory: Power

Luffy VS Brueno
Victory: Power

Shipcrew VS Giants
Victory: Tactics

Chopper VS White dude
Victory: Power

Franky VS Fat dude
Victory: Power

Nami VS HOT CHICK
Victory: Tactics

Took place after 386 I believe?..

Sanji VS Wolf dude
Victory: Power

Zoro VS Kaku
Victory: Power

Luffy VS Lucchi
Victory: Power

Now cosider Naruto is ONLY 386 chapters IN, ill stop at that chapter for One Piece, to judge at a even playing field.


NOW FOR NARUTO


Naruto VS Mizumi
Victory: Power
Naruto VS perv dude
Victory: Tactics

Kakashi VS Naruto, Sakura, And Sasuke
Victory: No winner

Kakashi VS Zabuza(round 1)
Victory: Tactics

Naruto and Sasuke VS Haku
Victory: Power

Kakashi VS Zabuza (round 2)
Victory: Tactics

Rock Lee VS Sasuke
Victory: Power

Sasuke VS Orachimaru
Victory: Tactics

Kabuta, Naruto,Sasuke,Sakura, VS Weird Masks guys
Victory: Tactics

Gaara VS Rain dude
Victory: Power

Sasuke VS Mask guy
Victory: Tactics

Sakura VS Ino
Victory: Tactics(Tie)

Chouji VS Dosu
Victory: Power

Rock Lee VS Gaara
Victory: Power

Neji VS Hinata
Victory: Power

Naruto VS Kiba
Victory: Tactics

Shikmaru VS Sound chick
Victory: Tactics

Tamari VS Tenten
Victory: Tactics/Power (was filler though?so meh)

Shino VS Zaku
Victory: Tactics

Kankuro VS Mask guy
Victory: Tactics

Neji VS Naruto
Victory: Tactics

Shikamaru VS Temari
Victory: Tactics

Gaara VS Sasuke
Victory: No Winner

The Third VS Orachimaru
Victory: Tactics

Shino VS Kakuro
Victory: Tactics

Naruto VS Gaara
Victory: Power/Tactics

Itachi vs. the jounins
Victory: Power

Sasuke VS Itachi
Victory: Power

Kabuto VS Naruto
Victory: Tactics

Sannin fight
Victory: Tactics

Sasuke VS Naruto round 1
Victory: No Winner

Chouji VS fat dude
Victory: Power

Neji VS spider guy
Victory: Tactics

Shikmaru Vs tayua(with temaris help
Victory: Tactics

Kiba vs. Sakon(with help from Kunkoro)
Victory: Tactics

Rock Lee VS kimimaro
Victory: No winner

Gaara VS Kimimaro
Victory: Kimi died?..before he was about to kill Kimi So victory..is sickness XD

Sasuke VS Naruto
Victory: Power
Gaara VS Deidara
Victory: Tactics

Kisame VS Gai
Victory: Power

Itachi VS Kakashi and Naruto
Victory: Tactics

Sasori VS Chiyo, and Sakura
Victory: Human reaction to parents love?.

Deidara vs. Naruto, and Kakashi
Victory: Tactics

KN4 VS Orchimaru
Victory: Power(no winner though)

Sasuke VS everyone
Victory: Power

Hidan and Ku vs. 2 tail
Victory: Unknown

Hidan and Ku VS monks
Victory: Unknown

Hidan VS Team Asuma
Victory: Tactics

Hidan VS Shikmaru
Victory: Tactics

Ku VS Naruto
Victory: Tactics

Orchimaru VS Sasuke
Victory: Power

Deidara VS Sasuke
Victory: Tactics

Pein VS Jiraya
Victory: Tactics

Sasuke VS Itachi
Victory: YET TO BE COMPLETED!

Well there we go?

hope i didnt miss any fights...


----------



## AkuOni (Jan 28, 2008)

TWF said:


> No he isn't.
> 
> But then you don't read One Piece, so what can we say on that issue?


I do read One Piece and I have to say Luffy ain't that bright or clever as Naruto. All he does is act goofy and extremly stupid even in simple situations such as reading books or understanding vivi's decision. Naruto has a better understanding of the world since he's a ninja, and matures over Part 2 where he tells Konoharmaru he's grown out of doing Sexy henge tricks and pranks and impresses Sakura in the process. He also has alot of composure in battle and doesn't react in a short tempered way any more, he's more direct and focus, while Luffy still charges at the enemy blindly and uses uncreative attacks like Gomu Gomu no Gatting gun to take them down. It's the same thing almost everytime, while Naruto uses the same attacks he uses them in sync with his KB and studies a enemies movements, for Luffy it's all or nothing. Oh and Luffy can't read, Naruto can.

Naruto > Luffy in the brains department.


----------



## Supa Swag (Jan 28, 2008)

Minzara said:


> posted this in the other one...might as well here too OP/Naruto fight comparisons
> 
> HERE WE GO!!!
> 
> ...



what was the point of that?


----------



## Maycara (Jan 28, 2008)

Kitty Litter said:


> ^^^what the hell was the point of that?



People kept saying One Piece has as much Tactics as Naruto...I wanted to prove them wrong...


----------



## masamune1 (Jan 28, 2008)

I'm an Optimist and I like to think that the original intentions of this Thread were innocent.

But really, it is going on a very fast road to Hell. This is going to be trashed soon, if any sanity is left.


----------



## Furious George (Jan 28, 2008)

kyuubi said:


> I've stated my opinion, is that not what you want?  I browsed over this thread and it plunged in the depths of hell with some serious bashing.
> 
> It all comes down to the fact that it is YOUR opinion.  The thread title states OP vs. Naruto, I like Naruto more.  I gave my reason why, if I came off as a negative light I apologize.  But if you wanted me to go on and on why I prefer Naruto more than OP I simply can't.  I would be deluding myself if I pulled facts out my arse against OP.




No. The point is not just to state your opinion, give no reasons why and say you are entitled to your opinion. That is not how debates works (and that is why Naruto fans tend to get made fun of in these debates. They have a bad habit of doing what you just did). The point is to *discuss* it. Post why you feel the way that you do. Even if the opinions are different from someone else's and you convince no one, a person who can explain themselves will always be respected. But coming in here and saying "I like Naruto because its my right and you can't change it. " is an indication of a lack of intelligence as well as the testicular fortitiude to back up your beliefs without whining... hence my suggestion to 'grow a pair'.


----------



## Wilson (Jan 28, 2008)

Naruto's much better to me, since I signed up at a Naruto forum, instead of an One Piece forum, but I don't see the point in debate something subjective. Bye thread.


----------



## Kue (Jan 28, 2008)

Okay you have one post to convince me to start reading OP.  Don't screw up.


----------



## Sengoku (Jan 28, 2008)

^ no need to answer this guy.


----------



## Glued (Jan 28, 2008)

Kishi really did a poor job in part 2. Rock Lee, Neji, Chouji, Chouji, Ino, Gaara, Kankuro and even Naruto got the short end of the stick in Part 2.

I am really getting sick of a lot of things in Naruto, but I still cling, hoping that Chouji shall make his return or Kankuro breaks our a new puppet or Rock Lee finally gets his props and that Naruto develops his "original jutsu."

*sigh*

One straight victory, that is all I ask for Kishi for Naruto. Kishi promised us a stronger Naruto that had grown. Well says one thing, but he hasn't shown it.

I picked up One Piece manga, after watching the show on tv. The chapter I was reading had Zollo fighting Luffy, there is only a certain amount of stupid I will tolerate. Don't get me wrong, I like humor, but that was stupid to a whole new level. Zollo was trying to talk to Luffy, but Luffy wasn't even listening. That was when I put the manga down.


----------



## Sengoku (Jan 28, 2008)

Firebat said:


> Kishi really did a poor job in part 2. Rock Lee, Neji, Chouji, Chouji, Ino, Gaara, Kankuro and even Naruto got the short end of the stick in Part 2.
> 
> I am really getting sick of a lot of things in Naruto, but I still cling, hoping that Chouji shall make his return or Kankuro breaks our a new puppet or Rock Lee finally gets his props and that Naruto develops his "original jutsu."
> 
> ...



wait what? zollo? whos that?


----------



## Maycara (Jan 28, 2008)

Sengoku said:


> ^ no need to answer this guy.



i did the list, lol....


----------



## kyuubi (Jan 28, 2008)

Cyckness said:


> No. The point is not just to state your opinion, give no reasons why and say you are entitled to your opinion. That is not how debates works (and that is why Naruto fans tend to get made fun of in these debates. They have a bad habit of doing what you just did). The point is to *discuss* it. Post why you feel the way that you do. Even if the opinions are different from someone else's and you convince no one, a person who can explain themselves will always be respected. But coming in here and saying "I like Naruto because its my right and you can't change it. " is an indication of a lack of intelligence as well as the testicular fortitiude to back up your beliefs without whining... hence my suggestion to 'grow a pair'.



Yet that gives you the right to insult me?  Surely there are things out there you aren't interested in, this applies here. I'm not interested in One Piece.

I am entitled to my opinion, just like you are.  If you wanted a reason instead of getting upset and throwing a fit, just request one. I would happily give you one.  I'm pretty sure I did.  And I replied in such a matter because some of the people who prefer Naruto are giving reasons( despite even I question them ) and are getting crapped on.  Argue the point, but don't try to direct your insults toward me. 

Also in debates you back up your beliefs with facts, if you read my post I stated why I was unable to do such.  One Piece never caught my attention, and browsing it I just generally did not like the whole idea of it.  It seems similar to Naruto, but perhaps the style is also a big factor for me.

Next time ask kindly my friend, don't get all huffy and telling me to grow a pair when you seem to be lacking a pair as well.

edit: On a lighter note, I may actually read One Piece, I'm pretty sure it's far more popular than Naruto for a reason.   Then I will return, and give a better arguement.  Only thing I fear is that I'll start liking OP more than Naruto..


----------



## Glued (Jan 28, 2008)

Sengoku said:


> wait what? zollo? whos that?



Zoro, the guy with the swords. Nevermind, the English Dub.

I first watched the show, then read a bit of the manga.


----------



## Supa Swag (Jan 28, 2008)

kyuubi said:


> edit: On a lighter note, I may actually read One Piece, I'm pretty sure it's far more popular than Naruto for a reason.   Then I will return, and give a better arguement.  Only thing I fear is that I'll start liking OP more than Naruto..



Well if you do read, just keep in mind that most of the time it's not meant to be taken seriously with it being light hearted and over the top.


----------



## Furious George (Jan 28, 2008)

kyuubi said:


> Yet that gives you the right to insult me?



I gave you two suggestions. You took it as an insult. 



> Surely there are things out there you aren't interested in, this applies here. I'm not interested in One Piece.



If you are not interested in a key factor to the point of the thread, why would you even post here? What could your post possibly have done to benefit this thread?



> I am entitled to my opinion, just like you are.



Okay. 



> If you wanted a reason instead of getting upset and throwing a fit, just request one. I would happily give you one.  I'm pretty sure I did.



Actually, you can't. Because you don't watch or read OP.  



> And I replied in such a matter because some of the people who prefer Naruto are giving reasons( despite even I question them ) and are getting crapped on.  Argue the point, but don't try to direct your insults toward me.



ALL debate thread are going to have their bashers. Making a post like you made only adds fuels to their fire. Its almost like whining to even make a fuss about it.... and again we are back to growing a pair. 



> Also in debates you back up your beliefs with facts,



Obviously a manga debate would be exempt from the 'fact law' because everything is ultimately our opinions. 



> if you read my post I stated why I was unable to do such.  One Piece never caught my attention, and browsing it I just generally did not like the whole idea of it.  It seems similar to Naruto, but perhaps the style is also a big factor for me.



Again, then why even post here? You knew off the bat that your opinion was as good as dung becuase you knew you never even gave OP a chance.



> Next time ask kindly my friend, don't get all huffy and telling me to grow a pair when you seem to be lacking a pair *as well*.



Haha. I found your little mistake there very cute. 



> edit: On a lighter note, I may actually read One Piece, I'm pretty sure it's far more popular than Naruto for a reason.   Then I will return, and give a better arguement.  Only thing I fear is that I'll start liking OP more than Naruto..



AHA, so we come to the root of the problem! You are afraid to step into the beauty of One Piece. Dude, trust me, read it. Even if it seems like I have given you a lot of shit in this thread, pretend we are best buds, take my suggestion, and give OP a try. I would not deny even my worst enemy the splendor of this awesome series.


----------



## kyuubi (Jan 28, 2008)

Alright, I'll admit defeat, I'm not a bitter person where I'll try to argue to the end of time, I know when I'm beat!

I usually don't post much, but seeing some people defending Naruto and getting their asses handed to them sparked something inside of me, and I had to give my two cents, even if what I said held little value!

Well, you convinced me atleast to read One Piece, maybe it deals with the fact that I want to be able to come up with a reason why Naruto is better! 

=P


----------



## Maycara (Jan 28, 2008)

kyuubi said:


> Alright, I'll admit defeat, I'm not a bitter person where I'll try to argue to the end of time, I know when I'm beat!
> 
> I usually don't post much, but seeing some people defending Naruto and getting their asses handed to them sparked something inside of me, and I had to give my two cents, even if what I said held little value!
> 
> ...


whos ass? I think ur readin the wrong thread...cause i avent lost once yet....yet being the key factor lol


----------



## Dark World Lightning (Jan 28, 2008)

One major thing One Piece has that Naruto does not is the sense of family. With rare exceptions, like Sasuke/Naruto, Gai/Rock Lee, and Asuma/Shikamaru, you do not actually get the sense that the ninjas in Konoha care for each other besides as military tools. Chouji and Shikamaru's friendship was supposedly a big deal in Part I yet there's not even a hint of that post-timeskip. Same for Iruka and Naruto.

Do Kakashi and Naruto hang out, despite being in a tight military unit where all members are expected to die for their country if need be? No.

Shit, Naruto and Sakura were apprenticed to Jiraiya and Tsunade for almost three years, getting exclusive attention, and you never got the sense that these students cared for their mentors. That's partly why I'm going to barf when Naruto gets all ANGSTY over Jiraiya. Naruto hasn't thought *once* about his sensei since he was dropped off.



Another thing One Piece has that Naruto doesn't have is subtlety and motivation for their villains beyond 'Real Ultimate Power'. Orochimaru and Itachi have style, but not substance. Pein comes the closest so far to being a villain with something beneath the surface other than megalomania or outright heartlessness.

While the villains in OP are cartoonish, they also have something about them that can make you see them in a way beyond their evil deeds. Captain Kuro, despite his disrespect towards his subordinates, wanted peace of mind above all else. Rob Lucci is incredibly sadistic but we know *why* he acts that way. Spandam is incredibly petty but shows real malice behind his cartoonishness. Eneru, despite his vast power, is such a joke that when he's taken out of his position of godhood he's more of a gorm-faced conspiracy theorist. Blackbeard almost resembles a classical hero--he cares about his crew enough to risk his lives for them, he believes in the power of dreams, and is incredibly determined to be Pirate King despite his lowly position. But he believes *anything* is worth pursuing his dream and performs some incredibly depraved actions without feeling anything--not even sadism or hatred or regret or even satisfaction.

I mean, he kills his best friend and earns the wrath of the most powerful pirate in the world and all he's probably thinking is 'man, I can't WAIT to be pirate king! It's gonna be so cool!' His crew painfully kills innocent people for no reason other than habit and the most we see out of him is 'man, sucks to be them. Better luck next time, eh?'

That's badass in a thought-provoking way.


----------



## Furious George (Jan 28, 2008)

kyuubi said:


> Alright, I'll admit defeat, I'm not a bitter person where I'll try to argue to the end of time, I know when I'm beat!
> 
> I usually don't post much, but seeing some people defending Naruto and getting their asses handed to them sparked something inside of me, and I had to give my two cents, even if what I said held little value!
> 
> ...



Wow... wasn't expecting this. I take back what I said about pairs and testicular fortitude. Only a "man's man" would ever admit defeat when he knows he is beaten. (+reps) 

You, sir, have way too much character to be on *their* side! Come... take a walk with me.... lets see if we can get you to turn in that Kyuubi avi for a bonofide OP Sea Monster one! 

But seriously, I understand how you feel. You are zealous for Naruto... but seeing ppl come into a debate thread just to make one sentence statements sparks something in me too. Sorry if I came off a little harsh. Its just that I see posts like that way too many times. 

But lets get down to business.



Read. Now.


----------



## Gritz (Jan 28, 2008)

Oh, good GOD!  Why do you HAVE to bring this topic up again?!   One Piece and Naruto both do things differently!  They are not the same!  If One Piece was a ninja manga, then maybe you could compare.  But it's not.  STOP USING ONE PIECE TO BASH NARUTO AND KISHI!  As for everybody getting development, the characters in Naruto don't live on a damn BOAT together.  Of course it's gonna be easy to develop ALL of them.   Part II is moving to the meat of the story AKA Naruto and Sakura's search for Sasuke.  And will you people PLEASE fucking accept that the Rookie 9 are not as important to the story as Team 7.  Also known as, the team Naruto is ON!    Stop trying to compare!

Hell, Kishi said that One Piece was a favorite of his.  Me, personally, I like both of them and I think they are both extremely excellent mangas.  Kishi does things differently than Oda.  Personally, I like Naruto allitle more because I was into it before I checked out OP.  

Fandom is a true wolf-in-sheep's-clothing.  

P.S.  Yeah, I'm back.  I just needed to take a break from NF's for a bit.


----------



## Sleazoid (Jan 28, 2008)

I read & enjoy them both equally.


----------



## Furious George (Jan 28, 2008)

Dark World Lightning said:


> One major thing One Piece has that Naruto does not is the sense of family. With rare exceptions, like Sasuke/Naruto, Gai/Rock Lee, and Asuma/Shikamaru, you do not actually get the sense that the ninjas in Konoha care for each other besides as military tools. Chouji and Shikamaru's friendship was supposedly a big deal in Part I yet there's not even a hint of that post-timeskip. Same for Iruka and Naruto.
> 
> Do Kakashi and Naruto hang out, despite being in a tight military unit where all members are expected to die for their country if need be? No.
> 
> Shit, Naruto and Sakura were apprenticed to Jiraiya and Tsunade for almost three years, getting exclusive attention, and you never got the sense that these students cared for their mentors. That's partly why I'm going to barf when Naruto gets all ANGSTY over Jiraiya. Naruto hasn't thought *once* about his sensei since he was dropped off.



Agree. The sense of unity among the Straw Hats is SO MUCH stronger then anything that I have ever seen in Naruto. And because of that strength of unity OP tends to have a much greater emotional impact on me, and it is much easier to relate to them.... Robin leaving the Straw Hats and being captured by the WG for a brief time in the Water 7/Ennies Lobby arc was more heart-wrenching and sad for me then Naruto and Sasuke's entire relationship after 30+ volumes. That is saying something.




> Another thing One Piece has that Naruto doesn't have is subtlety and motivation for their villains beyond 'Real Ultimate Power'. Orochimaru and Itachi have style, but not substance. Pein comes the closest so far to being a villain with something beneath the surface other than megalomania or outright heartlessness.
> 
> While the villains in OP are cartoonish, they also have something about them that can make you see them in a way beyond their evil deeds. Captain Kuro, despite his disrespect towards his subordinates, wanted peace of mind above all else. Rob Lucci is incredibly sadistic but we know *why* he acts that way. Spandam is incredibly petty but shows real malice behind his cartoonishness. Eneru, despite his vast power, is such a joke that when he's taken out of his position of godhood he's more of a gorm-faced conspiracy theorist. Blackbeard almost resembles a classical hero--he cares about his crew enough to risk his lives for them, he believes in the power of dreams, and is incredibly determined to be Pirate King despite his lowly position. But he believes *anything* is worth pursuing his dream and performs some incredibly depraved actions without feeling anything--not even sadism or hatred or regret or even satisfaction.
> 
> ...



This is true on so many levels... Like I mentioned some time before, Oda is much better at making you hate a character then Kishimoto will ever be. Hell, half of Konoha Library actually wants Itachi to win in his coming fight!


----------



## Canute87 (Jan 28, 2008)

I think One Piece is an overall better manga than Narut.

Better Fights, More sad moments, It's funny as hell, great character development,good treatement of women,and wicked characters

But I still watch them both


----------



## Supa Swag (Jan 28, 2008)

Cyckness said:


> This is true on so many levels... Like I mentioned some time before, Oda is much better at making you hate a character then Kishimoto will ever be. Hell, half of Konoha Library actually wants Itachi to win in his coming fight!



Very true. When Bellamy appeared and he insulted Luffy/Zoro while they stood there taking the verbal/physical assaults I wanted Bellamy to get his ass RAPED. When Luffy one-shot him I was smiling like crazy, especially when you see the reaction of Bellamy's crew (stunned and run away from Luffy as if their lives depended on it). I can't remember the last time a villain has made me feel like that. That's one reason I can't wait to see Doflamingo again. Bellamy was member of HIS crew. And I think killed Bellamy (it's implied anyway).


----------



## AkuOni (Jan 28, 2008)

Kishimoto is the only guy I know who has fans rooting for the villains more than the heroes.


----------



## Gritz (Jan 28, 2008)

AkuOni said:


> Kishimoto is the only guy I know who has fans rooting for the villains more than the heroes.



Those are the fans I like to call...retarded.  

Evil NEVER wins.


----------



## Furious George (Jan 28, 2008)

Kitty Litter said:


> Very true. When Bellamy appeared and he insulted Luffy/Zoro while they stood there taking the verbal/physical assaults I wanted Bellamy to get his ass RAPED. When Luffy one-shot him I was smiling like crazy, especially when you see the reaction of Bellamy's crew (stunned and run away from Luffy as if their lives depended on it). I can't remember the last time a villain has made me feel like that. That's one reason I can't wait to see Doflamingo again. Bellamy was member of HIS crew. And I think killed Bellamy (it's implied anyway).



I felt the exact same way. I think Arlong is my most-hated villain though. After he shot Belle-Marie point blank in the face, I was screaming on the inside for Luffy to jump out of nowhere and beat the shit out of em'. And when you are that emotionally invested in the characters, it makes the fight scenes that much more exciting... thats why even though I know deep down inside that Naruto's fights tend to be more original then OP's, I have a hard time seeing it that way. 

In contrast, I never really hated a Naruto villain.... I came close to hating Hidan for killing Asuma, but then I forgave him when he left the battle scene screaming "Au Revoir, shitheads!". Kishi made the guy too cool.


----------



## Gritz (Jan 28, 2008)

Weird, considering that OP villians have very little depth beside "HAR, HAR! I'M SOO EVIL!!!"  I was expecting Arlong to pull some bullshit.  I actually liked seeing Bellamy getting his ass whooped.  It was very short.  

Kishi likes to use the sympatheic villian story more.  Which made me ask why People hated Hidan soo much.  He was the perfect OP villian.  A sheer jackass for no real reason other than being nuts.  

Kishi seems to believe that people are not born evil, but through happenings, become so.  

Like I said.  Naruto and OP are like apples and oranges.   TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FORMULAS!

If you love OP, can you go over to OP section and STOP trying to start fights here, OP?  Please?!  The Konoha Library sucks ass anyway.  Don't make it suck worse.  

Why can't we be friends?  Hell, Kishi admitted to being a OP fan.


----------



## Furious George (Jan 28, 2008)

Gritz said:


> Weird, considering that OP villians have very little depth beside "HAR, HAR! I'M SOO EVIL!!!"



I tend to disagree. Blackbeard has a very healthy amount of depth to him, as does his entire crew.



> Kishi likes to use the sympatheic villian story more.



I sorta agree, but over-emphasizing sympathy can (and if we are to go by complaints, has) deaden the effect of the villain. Even looking at it this way, a lot of the villains in Naruto were not sympathy cases. It is more accurate to say Kishimoto favors "cool" villains. Remember, we are not supposed to like these characters... or at the very least not like them more then the protagonists.



> Kishi seems to believe that people are not born evil, but through happenings, become so.



As does Oda. Admittedly there were some villains who are just evil for the sake of evil, but the majority have their reasons (Evil Marines believe they are enforcing "absolute justice", Moria trying to replace his crew that he lost, etc.) 

Honestly, I don't think its a question of what one Mangaka was trying to accomplish. Its a question of efficiency. Whether we are supposed to see things their way or not (sympathetic), a villain is a villain: a negative force designed to bring conflict with the protagonist. You are supposed to like/relate to the protagonists in a shounen, thus you are supposed to want the villain to fail. Kishimoto has tried to make the reader hate the villains (I believe it was the main reason he had Oro kill Sandaime), but he just isn't very effective at it IMO.



> If you love OP, can you go over to OP section and STOP trying to start fights here, OP?



I'm not trying to start fights! lol 



> Why can't we be friends?  Hell, Kishi admitted to being a OP fan.



Dude were not starting a war here. Its a discussion. In case the sig and my essay didn't make it plain enough, I am a Naruto fan myself.


----------



## Gyroscope (Jan 28, 2008)

Cyckness said:


> This is true on so many levels... Like I mentioned some time before, Oda is much better at making you hate a character then Kishimoto will ever be. Hell, half of Konoha Library actually wants Itachi to win in his coming fight!



Isn't that because they hate Sasuke?


----------



## Gritz (Jan 28, 2008)

Cyckness said:


> I tend to disagree. Bleackbeard has a very healthy amount of depth to him, as does his entire crew.
> 
> One villian, compared to the many others.
> 
> ...



1. One villian, compared to the many others.  

2.  Why not favor cool villians?  I loved Darth Maul

3.  Then we admit that both mangakas do things differently.  Kishi likes making villians that make you say "COOL!!!"  and Oda likes villians that make you wanna wring their neck.  It's not that one style is worse than the other, it's just them doing their own thing and appreciating each other's style.  

4.  I just see any OP thread in a Naruto section as asking for trouble.  It's an unwritten rule not to admit that you like Naruto more than OP.  Otherwise, you get flames and people trying to convert you.  It's people like that that ultimately turn me off any manga.  That's why I left SaveOnePiece.  

5. It's a disscussion that is just begging for tards and flamebait.  Tensions run HIGH on topics like this.  That's why I usually want to avoid topics like this.


----------



## Furious George (Jan 28, 2008)

> One villian, compared to the many others.



Kuro- manipulative and seemingly evil, but really only trying to escape the pirate life for good. 
Dr. Hogback- seemingly evil, but also lonely and heart broken
Moria- seemingly evil, but is really just seeking to fill the hole that was left by his dead crew
Kuma- if you've read the recent chapters, this needs no explanation. 
Garp- trying to kill Luffy, yet rejoicing when he escapes him. 

This is just off the top of my head. The list goes on.



> Why not favor cool villians? I loved Darth Maul.



Not saying "cool" villains is a bad thing. An excellent series features villains that are cool AND very easy to hate... if we're comparing a series that has villains you love to a series that has villains "you love to hate", the latter is the one that would be considered more effective.  



> Then we admit that both mangakas do things differently. Kishi likes making villians that make you say "COOL!!!" and Oda likes villians that make you wanna wring their neck. It's not that one style is worse than the other, it's just them doing their own thing and appreciating each other's style.



See post above.



> I just see any OP thread in a Naruto section as asking for trouble. It's an unwritten rule not to admit that you like Naruto more than OP. Otherwise, you get flames and people trying to convert you. It's people like that that ultimately turn me off any manga. That's why I left SaveOnePiece.



I can't help the way you see things, and I can't help what other ppl do in these threads. Neither to flame or convert is my intention. (though an accidental OP conversion would make me happy)



> It's a disscussion that is just begging for tards and flamebait. Tensions run HIGH on topics like this. That's why I usually want to avoid topics like this.



Sorry if this sorta thing isn't your cup of tea. Me? I luvs me some arguments.


----------



## Maycara (Jan 28, 2008)

Teach said:


> What haven't you lost? You've been right out-owned.



how so? NONE of my points have been proven completely wrong, none of theirs either, the people i have argued with, none of us lost.


----------



## spaZ (Jan 28, 2008)

One piece will always be the better manga for me since the characters are just so much more interesting and the story is just way better.


----------



## mystictrunks (Jan 28, 2008)

Minzara said:


> posted this in the other one...might as well here too OP/Naruto fight comparisons
> 
> *clip for space*



I hope you realize that bullrushing is a tactic.


----------



## blackrose 666 (Jan 29, 2008)

masamune1 said:


> There is one, Core, reason as to why One Pice is generally considered (as far as I can tell) to be more popular than Naruto (in my opinion). Not the only reason, but the Core one.
> 
> This reason, everyone, is the difference in Themes.
> 
> ...



that could actually be true,though i like the themes of freedom and dreams generally too,I'm more interested in bonds,wether it is romance, friendship or family.


----------



## blackrose 666 (Jan 29, 2008)

AkuOni said:


> I do read One Piece and I have to say Luffy ain't that bright or clever as Naruto. All he does is act goofy and extremly stupid even in simple situations such as reading books or understanding vivi's decision. Naruto has a better understanding of the world since he's a ninja, and matures over Part 2 where he tells Konoharmaru he's grown out of doing Sexy henge tricks and pranks and impresses Sakura in the process. He also has alot of composure in battle and doesn't react in a short tempered way any more, he's more direct and focus, while Luffy still charges at the enemy blindly and uses uncreative attacks like Gomu Gomu no Gatting gun to take them down. It's the same thing almost everytime, while Naruto uses the same attacks he uses them in sync with his KB and studies a enemies movements, for Luffy it's all or nothing. Oh and Luffy can't read, Naruto can.
> 
> Naruto > Luffy in the brains department.



QFT i'm not a big fan of naruto the character but he is defiently better than luffy,also in fighting stlyle.thats another thing that bothers me in generall:those annoying gum gum attacks,it's nothing that luffy had to work for while naruto trained his ass of,and well he has the kyuubi,but its not like using these power don't accuire some skills either...


----------



## rorshach (Jan 29, 2008)

Luffy didn't have to work for his gum gum fruit, but the gum gum fruit is not very useful if you are not physically powerful.  Luffy gained has ridiculous physical strength, and durability from training with his grandfather.  Gear 2 and 3 were abilities that Luffy trained for after being defeated by Aokiji.  So he most definitely worked for his power.


----------



## Maycara (Jan 29, 2008)

Wait Wait Wait...I am on the Naruto side of this, I think its better. But Naruto has the 9 tails, which without a doubt is something he didnt train to obtain. And He does use it alot.


Luffy I would have to say has trained more for his ablitys....


----------



## Sengoku (Jan 29, 2008)

garp's training = piccolo's training


no wonder luffy is badass


----------



## mystictrunks (Jan 29, 2008)

blackrose 666 said:


> that could actually be true,though i like the themes of freedom and dreams generally too,I'm more interested in bonds,wether it is romance, friendship or family.



But OP is all about bonds(except for romance Oda has no love for shipping) 


As for Luffy not working for his powers getting a DF in no way makes you invincible. You have to train it even if you get a good one(Crocodile), you might end up getting something that seems one-dimensional and useless(Luffy)

He also had to train for his fighting style, gears, and so on.


----------



## Mullet_Power (Jan 29, 2008)

(note: if you don't read/watch One Piece because you don't like the artstyle, or don't think luffy is cool this post is not for you to argue, this is a story comparison)

When i first got into naruto it was watching the Dub, my roommate at the time was a huge naruto fan and had seen all the subbed eps, and was caught up in the manga. The station i watched naruto on would always play the OP dub before it, i thought One Piece was crap back then.

Fast forward, since the station went back 20 eps i decided to watch the subbed eps, and found out i like the naruto sub way more then the dub. The voiceacting was leagues ahead, and the opening was completly different (the dub wasn't using Haruka Kanata(sp?)yet) so I thought that maybe one piece might be better, but i thought it would be close to the dub and i still wouldn't like it. So i put it off for a long time.

THen i watched it after seeing one piece fans posting on the naruto forums saying that OP is superior in every way, and just how there was very few posts to argue that point.After watching a few episodes i saw it was nothing like the dub and continued watching it, but it didn't seem special. Then i saw the Arlong Park arc....and it was the best thing i have ever seen in shonen-no in all of anime (even to todays date when i have watched many more animes since i first saw it). Nami's backstory, Arlong's badassery combined with being a complete asshole, and of course Luffy. What impresses  me most about Luffy's character is he never doubts his nakama, no matter what. But he never gets to the point where he is just annoying, he knows what is his buisness and stays out of stuff he has no idea about(nami's past) and only wishes to help a friend in need not completley change them. 

But I was afraid that this would have the same problem a lot of other anime's share. They get to a high point in the first couple arcs (probably because the creator had them all thought out when they started to manga) but then it falls from that point into either trash, or the same thing happens over and over. But to my suprise after watching the series 3 times over and reading the manga it has yet to get old it still is always top notch. 

Some times it feels like Oda comes into my home and plays some brain washing tape that makes me not only see one piece as a great manga, but see it in the same light as he does. Naruto has all these great ideas and an epic world, but we only see a small piece of it, I'm sure in Kishimoto's mind it is the vast universe that is living and breathing but when he tries to show us it we see nothing but trees(on that note what happened to doing missions to help Konoha, I guess they don't need to do small jobs anymore just run after Sauske at all times). 

Also it is the same with Oda's characters you get to the point where you do care about them, you are worried when you get left on a cliffhanger, you are sad when you know the troubles they have lived through. It is because we are seeing them the way Oda sees them. Kishi did a great job in part one we cared about Naruto, Sauske, and all the supporting characters. But since part 2 has started we have seen no progress in the story of these characters. Most of them have been forgotten or completly ignored. Is Neji still trying to free himself from his cage, who knows. Does Lee still work hard to prove that he is an exceptional ninja, probably but we haven't seen it. Hell even Sakura who is supposed to be trying to get stronger to protect Naruto and Sauske has done absolutely nothing. Hell i don't even think she has spoken since they ran into Sauske at Oro's crib. Meanwhile in One Piece characters get their full treatment. People say that One Piece's character never change and that they are always the same aside from fighting powerups. But One Piece is not a coming of age story(well excluding Usopp), they have already become the people that they are going to be forever. They don't train because they have already completed their training. The changing they do is in relation to their dream, and the steps the take into getting there. Minor characters are also treated like they should be. When we leave the minor characters in One Piece their story is usually complete, and if not they re-appear later on (laboon anyone?(you'll understand if you read OP)). Not thrown to the side like every character except Naruto and Sauske.

Kishi has ran into the problem of having no endings in his arcs. It seems like everything is always postponed and never concludes. Then when he got further into the story instead of finishing what he started it was easier to throw them aside and just introduce new characters. It is the same with the world itself. He introduced all these villages and instead of giving us info on them he just focuses entirely on Konoha, and only uses the other villages as a vessal to introduce characters (ie: The Hidden Village of the mist to introduce new water based characters).

So what makes One Piece better. It is the way the story is told, you care more about the characters (all of them not just your favorite) and the world they live in. The best example for me it is when I cared more when the Going Mary(their ship) was in danger then i did when Jiraya had his throat cut open. That says volumes about what story is told better.

In summary
Part 1 Naruto manga = One Piece manga
Part 2 Naruto manga < One Piece manga
Naruto Anime <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< One Piece anime (yes even part 1 cannon < One Piece Filler, because other than a few episodes Periot treats Naruto like shit compared to Toei)


----------



## trigimon (Jan 29, 2008)

Minzara said:


> See I used to love Bleach Kenpachi is one of my fav characters of all time. But after the SS arc...Bleach has just sucked balls, I find it boring, i still read/watch it..but only because i've invested so much time into it.



I feel the exact same way about bleach as you do, Im so disapointed in it now.

it's all about power ups with no end. And they dont show the struggle involved. The development of a charactors power is completely omitted and it's all about the display of it. Right now it is soooooo obvious that Kenpachi is going to show off his bankai against Notoira that he developed off screen. He might even have a hollow mask like Ichigo's added in to the scene. You can see it coming from a mile away. Also what is pissing me off about it, is everybody stays alive. The good guys have the dragonballs on their side with Inou. and the SS medical staff. It's a complete sham right now. You can get your head lopped off but that's ok. Inou will make it all right with her wishes.

bahhh


----------



## Noble Avenger (Jan 29, 2008)

Naruto, by miles. It actually has plot progression, a GOOD and somewhat new fighting structure, much better cohesion (you see how everything is actually coming together), and better supporting characters and villains. Luffy >> Naruto, but Sasuke >>>>> Zoro, and Naruto villains, in general, are far more appealing and less repetitive than OP villains. OP has become a Dragonball with Pirates and NO foreseeable end in sight. It is all characters and very little plot.

OP doesn't even crack my top 10 all-time. Naruto would be in the top 3.


----------



## Hibari Kyoya (Jan 29, 2008)

Noble Avenger said:


> Naruto, by miles. It actually has plot progression, a GOOD and somewhat new fighting structure, much better cohesion (you see how everything is actually coming together), and better supporting characters and villains. Luffy >> Naruto, but Sasuke >>>>> Zoro, and Naruto villains, in general, are far more appealing and less repetitive than OP villains. OP has become a Dragonball with Pirates and NO foreseeable end in sight. It is all characters and very little plot.
> 
> OP doesn't even crack my top 10 all-time. Naruto would be in the top 3.



  trust u 2 say that


----------



## The Fourth Hokage (Jan 29, 2008)

I haven't read the OP manga but i've caught the anime

IMO Ninjas in general are better than Pirates any day.  I just find OP to be rather simplistic.


----------



## raibbhani (Jan 29, 2008)

Noble Avenger said:


> Naruto, by miles. It actually has plot progression, a GOOD and somewhat new fighting structure, much better cohesion (you see how everything is actually coming together), and better supporting characters and villains. Luffy >> Naruto, but Sasuke >>>>> Zoro, and Naruto villains, in general, are far more appealing and less repetitive than OP villains. OP has become a Dragonball with Pirates and NO foreseeable end in sight. It is all characters and very little plot.
> 
> OP doesn't even crack my top 10 all-time. Naruto would be in the top 3.



Do you even read One Piece? The plot was much more mysterious and interesting than some lame Uchiha's eyes and nuking a country.


----------



## Aldric (Jan 29, 2008)

LMAO at Naruto having better plot cohesion and better, less repetitive villains. Yeah, Arlong, Sir Crocodile, Enel, Rob Lucci and Gecko Moria are totally alike, both in terms of design and personality. And that's supposed to be the intellectual giant of the Uchiha fandom.

Anyway I find OP to be leagues better than Naruto for the simple reasons the main cast is infinitely more original and likeable, not to mention Oda manages to give screentime to 8 (soon 9) main characters without ever making one fall into background abyss. Oda is also always putting tons of meaningful content in his chapters, whether it is dialogue, fighting or art wise. Never did Oda pull the kind of garbage Kishimoto churned out for chapter 306 for ex.

OP also focuses more on light hearted comedy and the feeling of adventure than on painfully forced, idiotic teenage drama taking itself way too seriously for its own good, the OPverse actually feels like a breathing, living world that doesn't revolve around the main cast, and last but not least the story isn't all about some stupid clan of backstabbing, fratricidal douchebags.

All reasons putting OP far above Naruto.


----------



## AkuOni (Jan 29, 2008)

Zuko said:


> Do you even read One Piece? The plot was much more mysterious and interesting than some lame Uchiha's eyes and nuking a country.


Opinion, not everyone finds, inconsistant adventures and strawhat rubbermen exciting.


----------



## Maycara (Jan 29, 2008)

One Piece has its good points, and so does Naruto, there very close IMO. I think Naruto just beats it by a very small amount.


----------



## Noble Avenger (Jan 29, 2008)

Zuko said:


> Do you even read One Piece? The plot was much more mysterious and interesting than some lame Uchiha's eyes and nuking a country.


Ninjas trying to take over the world vs Pirates trying to find treasure. I find the former more interesting. 



> Anyway I find OP to be leagues better than Naruto for the simple reasons the main cast is infinitely more original and likeable, not to mention Oda manages to give screentime to 8 (soon 9) main characters without ever making one fall into background abyss. Oda is also always putting tons of meaningful content in his chapters, whether it is dialogue, fighting or art wise. Never did Oda pull the kind of garbage Kishimoto churned out for chapter 306 for ex.


About the only part of your post I can agree with. Oda does an infinitely better job of fully developing side characters that really aren't THAT important. Why? Because his story doesn't fucking go anywhere. 

He puts more meaningful content into his chapters? Meaningful how? You mean meaningful as we learn more, and more, and more, and more about every character to the point where it becomes excessive and boring. I constantly find myself asking, when reading OP, why the hell should I care about so-and-so. The content isn't meaningful most of the time, because it isn't moving the PLOT forward. Have you guys read Dragonball? Take some water, and someone who has nothing better to do than keep writing the same manga, and you have OP. 

I've found a way to read it that entertains me. Not engrossing myself in it, or analyzing it, like I do Naruto, but just reading about the little isolated adventures, since they are entertaining and do have more of a range of emotion. But comparing it to Naruto? For me, that just brings about a laugh. I'm not trying to insult anyone...if isolated little adventures are more important to you than development, cohesion, well-allocated mysteries/foreshadowing, etc, then by all means rep the hell out of OP. But please don't act as if it is some God amongst Shounen and Naruto is crap. So you don't like how Kishi handles his main character. Grow the fuck up and quit whining.

The fights? Ugh...don't even get me started. The power structure is beyond lame (power from fucking fruit) and the abilities aren't balanced at all. And Oda's drawing is hard for me to look at sometimes. Seriously. 

Jeeze, it's like one of them (fgd) gets banned and another one comes back


----------



## ShadowsBekon (Jan 29, 2008)

One piece is one big filler series.


----------



## Splintered (Jan 29, 2008)

Aha, I had a long post and it got deleted.

Basically, I like OP and Naruto roughly equally, being into the stories and fandoms about the same time- but I think I've never enjoyed OP as much as Naruto on its high points, but I've never been disappointed with OP like I've been disappointed with Naruto on its low points.

What I like about OP is the surrealistic adventure, it's fun and easy going despite serious moments.  It has a long of "high" moments that easily gives readers a rush.  However, I never read OP for its plot.  For a long time, it seemed that it didn't have one, it was a bunch of arcs loosely tied together with a common theme- only recently did everything seem to come together.  Naruto, I felt, had a stronger plot and scenarios always built upon eachother and gave it a strong structure.  I also could take the manga more seriously when it called for it, and it also had its fun moments.  I never liked fight sequences with OP at all, but I'm more of a character driven reader myself so I was more interested in seeing how a character reacted in fights rather than fought, so it wasn't a huge loss there.

So basically I went to Naruto because I liked the story and I was emotionally invested in the characters- when tragedy struck Naruto characters I was more more in tune.  I went to OP because of its fantastic storytelling and many characters I became fond of.


----------



## Aldric (Jan 29, 2008)

Noble Avenger said:


> About the only part of your post I can agree with. Oda does an infinitely better job of fully developing side characters that really aren't THAT important. Why? Because his story doesn't fucking go anywhere.



Yeah so you don't read One Piece. Oda doesn't develop his characters actually. They remain rather static, but he does give them screentime. As in, they actually do shit. Kishimoto has a hard time giving quality screentime to his 4 main characters (decency prevents me from mentioning what he does with the rest of the Rookie 9), and the ones he tries to develop he miserably fails (HELLO NARUTO).



> He puts more meaningful content into his chapters? Meaningful how? You mean meaningful as we learn more, and more, and more, and more about every character to the point where it becomes excessive and boring. I constantly find myself asking, when reading OP, why the hell should I care about so-and-so. The content isn't meaningful most of the time, because it isn't moving the PLOT forward. Have you guys read Dragonball? Take some water, and someone who has nothing better to do than keep writing the same manga, and you have OP.



No, not meaningful as in we learn more about every character. This is a downright idiotic, baseless point since basically the only information Oda gives us on his main cast is generally concentrated in a single flashback, and then we never learn anything about them. You may want to give examples to back up your point because currently you're coming off as someone who has absolutely no idea what he's talking about.

Since apparently you don't know what One Piece is all about, let me give you a short, easy to understand summary: the story of One Piece is about that boy Luffy who wants to become the Pirate King. In order to do so he has to assemble a crew and travel from island to island, until he reaches the end of his journey where his goal lies. 

Basically, each and every arc in One Piece movees the plot forward, since it shows Luffy getting closer from his goal. All the while Oda shows up what happens in the rest of the world as well: whether it is with the fragile balance of power between the Emperors, Seven Armed Seas and Marine HQ, the Lost Century, the World Government darker side. Therefore, saying the OP plot is static is sheer nonsense.



> I've found a way to read it that entertains me. Not engrossing myself in it, or analyzing it, like I do Naruto, but just reading about the little isolated adventures, since they are entertaining and do have more of a range of emotion. But comparing it to Naruto? For me, that just brings about a laugh. I'm not trying to insult anyone...if isolated little adventures are more important to you than development, cohesion, well-allocated mysteries/foreshadowing, etc, then by all means rep the hell out of OP. But please don't act as if it is some God amongst Shounen and Naruto is crap. So you don't like how Kishi handles his main character. Grow the fuck up and quit whining.



You know, just a friendly advice, you may want to drop that ridiculous MORE MATURE THAN THOU stitch because coming from you, a guy who cries real outpours of bitter tears everytime someone criticizes his precious brooding Uchiha pretty boy and favorite cartoon character and apparently developed a superiority complex because he writes half assed essays overanalyzing a retarded comic book for children it's simply hysterical. I'm trying to help you, you probably have no idea how laughable you sound, but trust me buddy just... stop.



> The fights? Ugh...don't even get me started. The power structure is beyond lame (power from fucking fruit) and the abilities aren't balanced at all.



At least in OP the reader's suspension of disbelief isn't constantly challenged by little stunts like a bunch of prepubescent cretins bombing out S ranked criminals in one hit.



> Jeeze, it's like one of them (fgd) gets banned and another one comes back



I know that it's one of your fandom's specialities, running to the mods to get people banned when you're out of your depth, but show some dignity.


----------



## raibbhani (Jan 29, 2008)

Noble Avenger said:


> Ninjas trying to take over the world vs Pirates trying to find treasure. I find the former more interesting.
> 
> l





Clearly you never read One Piece that much.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jan 29, 2008)

This is quite amusing.


----------



## AkuOni (Jan 29, 2008)

Zuko said:


> Clearly you never read One Piece that much.


Face it dude, One Piece isn't that epic. They basically follow the same formula on each island over and over again. The whole plot it's self is to extended. And each character never develops except their powers.


----------



## ShadowsBekon (Jan 29, 2008)

One piece plot is far from static, its all over the fuckin place. Never in my life have I read a manga with so many sets of characters who are dealt with quickly and never show up again. I'll say it again, with minor exceptions One Piece is a series of random events with one general story outline. We have no evidence that Luffy is any closer than he was in chapter 1 to One Piece because we still know nothing about it. 

I really hope he never finds that treasure. One Piece also has ridiculous artwork.


----------



## mootz (Jan 29, 2008)

kishi and naruto got me into manga and i will always be thankful for that however part 2 is fail

one piece (and a few others) is the reason i am still in manga


----------



## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Jan 29, 2008)

ShadowsBekon said:


> One piece plot is far from static, its all over the fuckin place. Never in my life have I read a manga with so many sets of characters who are dealt with quickly and never show up again. I'll say it again, with minor exceptions One Piece is a series of random events with one general story outline. We have no evidence that Luffy is any closer than he was in chapter 1 to One Piece because we still know nothing about it.
> 
> I really hope he never finds that treasure. One Piece also has ridiculous artwork.



 WTF? Luffy is not closer to his goal than in the beginning? Let's see...

1. East Blue->Grand Line (part 1)->(soon to come, part 2) The New World. Shows clear progression, I'd say.

2. Luffy already beat two of the WG's Shichibukai and took out Enies Lobby along with the government's best assassins group.

3. He started out as a single man and now has 7 crewmembers (soon to be 8) and a very well equipped ship.

4. His bounty (and that of his crew) steadily rise, showing that the government actually does want to get rid of them, since they are becoming dangerous for them.


Tell me, how close is Naruto to his goal to become Hokage? Or how close is he to get Sasuke back due to his own accomplishments?



EDIT:

I hate time warps...


----------



## Fang (Jan 29, 2008)

Yeah, OP isn't full of or about angsty teenage pretty boys, and about ninjas, it sucks!


----------



## Gecka (Jan 29, 2008)

well OP has a better plot, better set of main characters, and Zolo

But Naruto has a few badass characters.

In a brawl, Naruto would win cuz of the power difference.


----------



## Tehmk (Jan 29, 2008)

Ninja > Pirate Nuff said.


----------



## Mister_Anbu (Jan 29, 2008)

No, Kish's manga is too dark. It's hard to look beyond that darkness that is Naruto. 

Honestly, did you someone describe Naruto as a "dark" manga? ... Naruto wears an orange jump suit and has bright blond hair. In case you forgot.


----------



## Mister_Anbu (Jan 29, 2008)

YARG laggy post.

Anyways, I genuinely do like both mangas. Naruto is just far too easy to mock and has many moments that make me go WTF. 

I think One Piece is better by a mile. I like the characters in One Piece more, I like the fights more, and there's so much information that I want to know about One Piece still. The characters in OP create a fantastic family environment. The story overall has given me captivating images that I will forever remember. There are many panels of complete badassery, where as Naruto provides me no such feeling. The quotes in One Piece and the sense of comrades struggling to survive vibrates much more resoundingly in OP than in Naruto. It's also all aided by the fact that the One Piece anime was and is handled much better than the Naruto anime. 

I think it's ridiculous to bash One Piece if you have never watched it. Calling it similar to Dragonball is like calling Naruto similar to Threes Company (wait a second...) There's honestly no point in making comparisons in that regards.


----------



## Naruko (Jan 29, 2008)

I far prefer Naruto. 

I've watched all of OP because some folks raved about it. I was up to the Alabasta arc before I gave much of a damn. It's a very emotional story, but not very clever, and the author clearly doesn't give a damn about being consistent with any 'rules' even in his own universe. 

These are not bad things - they just make OP less enjoyable to me. Naruto has more darkness and pathos overall, and the humor is not as exaggerated and ridiculous. 

And yes, I admit the art style of OP chaps my hide - drives me freakin' insane. 

As for character development, I far prefer Kishi's style - I feel like most of the character stories in OP are ret-conned, or thought up after their introduction. It's like you meet someone, have some fun and fights with them...then a GREAT big flashback episode to slam it all together. 

OP just feels a lot more contrived to me. It also feels more padded....I get the sense the author likes his universe and is having fun in it (kudos to him, best job you can hope for) so he's in no rush to get to the point, tell  the story, or even be relevent all the time - some segments are just...there. No real growth or lasting changes...they're filler, yet canon at the same time. 

Nobody dies....I don't need a lot of death, I don't enjoy it, don't require it, but if you set me up for a tear jerking scene where it looks like someone is dead, and a beautifully done and noble death (think Alabasta arc again), then ruin it but TA DA....they're really alive, just banged up....it pulls the punch.

Both are good stories....both are good at what they do and what they provide. 

I HATE direct comparisons between the two because they aren't trying to be the same type of story. 

OP is a lot lighter, more fun, a greater sense of the ridiculous and surreal and logic, rationality and reason can go hang. And that's ok...that's what it's like in OP and you go there to enjoy that feel. And it's sweet and emotional moments are nicely done, you enjoy those too.

Naruto, for me, has better character development, characters I identify with more, care about more, and I feel are developed in a more natural, over-time manner. I like the art style more, I generally like the music more over all (OP has some awesome themes tho), and I feel Kishimoto has created rules and strictures for his universe and he stays within those more consistently. His joyful scenes and tragic scenes are just as powerful to me, but because when someone 'dies' in Naruto, they stay dead, it doesn't pull the punch and has left a  greater impression on me.

Short Answer:

They're apples and oranges, it's not fair to do a direct comparison. They're both great examples of manga/anime entertainment and we should just be glad we're all alive here and now and get to see 'em both as they unfold.


----------



## Naruko (Jan 29, 2008)

Time warp - I did my post at 9:17 and it says 8:17 and is halfway up the page....

LET'S DO THE TIME WARP AGAAAAAAAAAAIN! 

(I watch and read em both, I like Naruto a lot more: very short answer)>


----------



## AkuOni (Jan 29, 2008)

One Piece would rock as a video game, but as a manga. It's boring.


----------



## King Bookah (Jan 29, 2008)

Naruto and One Piece = SERIOUZ BWIZNESZ


----------



## Zephos (Jan 29, 2008)

I CAN TELL TEH FUTURE, IANDER WILL MAKE A DUMB POST LATER, JUST SCROLL DOWN FROM HERE LATER AND YOU WILL SEE.


----------



## AkuOni (Jan 29, 2008)

One Piece is like DBZ with ships.


----------



## Amatsu (Jan 29, 2008)

ShadowsBekon said:


> One piece is one big filler series.



I wouldn't mind seeing you try to prove that.


----------



## Supa Swag (Jan 29, 2008)

Did I just read somewhere that Sasuke>Zoro?

HAHAHA. Sorry I just don't see. Especially after the latest OP chapter.





Noble Avenger said:


> Ninjas trying to take over the world vs Pirates trying to find treasure. I find the former more interesting.



You're smarter than to generalize One Piece like that. That's like someone saying Naruto is about some retarded ninja who wants to become the strongest person his village.




> About the only part of your post I can agree with. Oda does an infinitely better job of fully developing side characters that really aren't THAT important. Why? Because his story doesn't fucking go anywhere.



The story is steadily progressing into the World Government taking extreme caution with Luffy, as well as Whitebeard possibly confronting the WG due to them promoting Blackbeard as Shichibukai after his victory over Ace. Just because it takes longer doesn't mean it's not going anywhere.




> I've found a way to read it that entertains me. Not engrossing myself in it, or analyzing it, like I do Naruto,



And that's a damn shame, since OP has just as much, if not more depth than Naruto. It sounds like you're impatient to find out about those key points in the plot.



> but just reading about the little isolated adventures, since they are entertaining and do have more of a range of emotion. But comparing it to Naruto? For me, that just brings about a laugh. I'm not trying to insult anyone...if isolated little adventures are more important to you than development, cohesion, well-allocated mysteries/foreshadowing, etc, then by all means rep the hell out of OP. But please don't act as if it is some God amongst Shounen and Naruto is crap. So you don't like how Kishi handles his main character. Grow the fuck up and quit whining.



Blackbeard isn't foreshadowing? When he was introduced he was shown as the COMPLETE antithesis to Luffy. They were shown to be completely opposite in their taste of food, but both heavily believed in living out your dreams.

Then we have Robin and her ability to read the Poneglyphs, Crocodile hiring her so he could try to find Pluton, Blackbeards crew being hinted at destroying Drum Island, Aokiji hinting at Luffy's grandfather (who people thought was once Saul but turned out to be Garp), Going Merry's spirit appearing in Skypeia and fixing itself when we were led to believe it was a stranger. Hell, just recently the Strawhats are about to get a crewmember who knew Laboon (the giant whale they met some 300 chapters ago).

And really, both series didn't really start creating and tying up events until after their respective important arcs. Naruto with after the Chuunin Exam and One Piece with Grand Line.



> The fights? Ugh...don't even get me started. The power structure is beyond lame (power from fucking fruit) and the abilities aren't balanced at all. And Oda's drawing is hard for me to look at sometimes. Seriously.



Can't say much about this since this a taste thing. I personally look forward to new Devil Fruits than the new Sharingan power/genjutsu/whatever, or the new Rasengan. 

Likewise with the art. It perfectly fits with the atmosphere of One Piece: completely over the top. Naruto to me just looks bland while sometimes creating good backgrounds. I was much more impressed with the Naruto art during the Rescue Sasuke arc.


----------



## Last Shadow (Jan 29, 2008)

I think that it's best that we all read a variety of manga. Just limiting oneself to one manga is foolish. That being said, I haven't seen OP, but I'll definetly check it out. Different people have different opinions. No one person can _prove_ one manga is better than the other. Heck, I could make a manga, and my Grandma would love it. Different people would like different things, so trying to change people's minds will most likely just make them angry...


----------



## Kaenboshi (Jan 29, 2008)

One Piece. By a longshot. I know, I know, "they're like apples and oranges." Oranges beat apples any day.  

I still like Naruto, but just feel One Piece is more enjoyable.

(And I'll give more back-up later)


----------



## Mullet_Power (Jan 29, 2008)

Naruko said:


> I far prefer Naruto.
> 
> I've watched all of OP because some folks raved about it. I was up to the Alabasta arc before I gave much of a damn. It's a very emotional story, but not very clever, and the author clearly doesn't give a damn about being consistent with any 'rules' even in his own universe.



I hate to be an asshole, but what rules has he gone back on? I can't think of one. The thing about one piece is that every is consistant, Luffy won't one day beable to swim, the NEED the logpose to get to the next island Nami won't suddenly be so good that she can do it without it. Rules in One Piece are never taken back.



> These are not bad things - they just make OP less enjoyable to me. Naruto has more darkness and pathos overall, and the humor is not as exaggerated and ridiculous.



Honestly speaking humor in naruto nowadays outside of 1(tobi) character is none existent. Other than the Tobi+Dei exchanges their has been any ongoing comedy, witch makes it to melodramatic.

And yes, I admit the art style of OP chaps my hide - drives me freakin' insane. 



> As for character development, I far prefer Kishi's style - I feel like most of the character stories in OP are ret-conned, or thought up after their introduction. It's like you meet someone, have some fun and fights with them...then a GREAT big flashback episode to slam it all together.
> 
> OP just feels a lot more contrived to me. It also feels more padded....I get the sense the author likes his universe and is having fun in it (kudos to him, best job you can hope for) so he's in no rush to get to the point, tell  the story, or even be relevent all the time - some segments are just...there. No real growth or lasting changes...they're filler, yet canon at the same time.



If you read my (yes i's long) post a little while back I said that One Piece doesn't focus on maturing characters, because it is not a coming of age story. It focuses on the characters progression towards their dreams where there has been plenty  of prgession for almost all the characters(unfortunately sanji's dream has MIA since after he was introduced) . As for character progression in Naruto, witch is a coming of age story. I don't really see as much as most people claim. Other than fighting powerups no one has really changed, except maybe Sakura who isn't as "lol i wanna be a ninja so sauske will like me" compared to part 1. Sauske is still obsessed with revenge. Nartuo is still far to naive. As for any side characters...well....yeah no comment....oh shika killed a dude.....



> Nobody dies....I don't need a lot of death, I don't enjoy it, don't require it, but if you set me up for a tear jerking scene where it looks like someone is dead, and a beautifully done and noble death (think Alabasta arc again), then ruin it but TA DA....they're really alive, just banged up....it pulls the punch.



But ask yourself was it important? I can only think of maybe 1, and that was Pell. Oda doesn't kill minor characters because they a minor. Jiraya's death was almost meaningless to me. Naruto has gone to far, dying in naruto has no real impact any more. Their was 3 characters with anything close to a big role that died in part 1(Zabuza, Haku, Sandaime), in part 2 their has been 8(Jiraya, Deidra, Oro, Kakuzu, Hidan, Asuma, Sasori, and Chiyo (manda doesn't count but that was the worst thing i ever seen)) and that is under half the chapters. Also he even pulled a major punch with Gaara.



> Both are good stories....both are good at what they do and what they provide.
> 
> I HATE direct comparisons between the two because they aren't trying to be the same type of story.
> 
> ...



I agree with most of this (excluding things you repeated addressed above). Except saying that they are completely different. Why most people like both is because the basic ideas behind both are VERY similar. Especially between the main characters, and the way they think and act.


----------



## yami (Jan 29, 2008)

Naruko said:


> I far prefer Naruto.
> 
> I've watched all of OP because some folks raved about it. I was up to the Alabasta arc before I gave much of a damn. It's a very emotional story, but not very clever, and the author clearly doesn't give a damn about being consistent with any 'rules' even in his own universe.
> 
> ...



I dont know why everybody is so up in the air about the art style, I didnt even notice any difference in it. I dont really mind different art styles, as long as the story is engaging, characters are fun. OP simply has better characters, which are also consistent, everybody gets their lime light. Zoro alone beats all the characters in Naruto. Never running out of fresh ideas, even if they are not important to the overall plot. 
Thats how you know you have a good series, when your arcs may have nothing to do with over all plot but the characters ect are so good that it doesnt matter. Plus every arc has a piece to over all arc.

all in all, OP is much better series because its actually consistent in quality of the stories and arcs ect. Naruto has been crappy since the end of part 1. OP feels like its about to get even better now more than ever( the new world, BlackBeard,)


----------



## /root (Jan 30, 2008)

Naruto fans on a Naruto forum.

Color me shocked.


----------



## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 30, 2008)

Mister_Anbu said:


> Like holy crap, people dieing = serious business. DARK STUFF. The fights are also way more amazing and fantabulous, I love reading gigantic illusions and staring contests. ALSO ITS DARKER. Kishi likes glossy black, so it's obviously darker. End will be near. The end is also in sight, Naruto will obviously become strong enough to defeat a couple ninja gods, one that has lived for 200 years even. Actually no, some other guy (SHARINGAN SASUKE) will probably do it since this manga has Naruto in it only half the time. Lols you One piece dorks need to go get laid because I'm obviously not a prick that gets laid by my hand.



*Wait what. *


----------



## iander (Jan 30, 2008)

Whether Kishi is a fan of One Piece has no bearing on my point though I was well aware of that. Kishi and I probably have different tastes on many things in life.

You can lol at whatever you want but that also has no bearing on my argument. You and I could speculate as much as we want on when one is going to end or not. With Naruto, I see Sasuke confronting his brother for possibly the last time and Naruto closing in on his goal to save Sasuke which will lead to the ending battles versus the main villains and his rise to hokage. As he says, how could I be hokage if i cant save my friend. One will inevitably lead to the other. But realistically, Kishi has hinted that hes in the process of ending his story while Oda has not shown many signs of stopping for quite a while. And theres nothing inherently wrong with that but thats not what im looking for.

And you're gonna have to do better than childish mocking to make a point. You think this is the kind of post that will convert people to One Piece or will make people want to debate this with you? Why not just clearly state the points that you think make One Piece stand out?


----------



## Zephos (Jan 30, 2008)

> Has no bearing on my point though I was well aware of that. Kishi and I probably have different tastes on many things in life.



You just said Kishimoto wanted Oda to end so it does kind of sink your little attempt at whatever.



> You can lol at whatever you want but that also has no bearing on my argument. You and I could speculate as much as we want on when one is going to end or not.



I'm not speculating, the Strawhats are almost at teh second half of teh Grand Line, its been mentioned nonstop.



> With Naruto, I see Sasuke confronting his brother for possibly the last time and Naruto closing in on his goal to save Sasuke which will lead to the ending battles versus the main villains and his rise to hokage.



Madara? Pein? Orochimaru? You seem to have forgotten all the main villains?



> As he says, how could I be hokage if i cant save my friend. One will inevitably lead to the other.



How would he become hokage by redeeming Sasuke?



> But realistically, Kishi has hinted that hes in the process of ending his story while Oda has not shown many signs of stopping for quite a while.



Kishi hasn't hinted at any such thing. 



> You're gonna have to do better than childish mocking to make a point. You think this is the kind of post that will convert people to One Piece or will make people want to debate this with you? Why not just clearly state the points that you think make One Piece stand out?



I was mocking something insanely childish to begin with so, yhea.


----------



## iander (Jan 30, 2008)

Woah its really doing weird stuff with my posts so im gonna stop for now


----------



## Glued (Jan 30, 2008)

I loved Naruto Part 1. It was so awesome, especially Rock Lee, Chouji, Kankuro and Neji. However in Part 2 all these characters got the shaft. Chouji, got one hit. His master died and all he got was one hit. The characters don't have the same aura. I even liked Naruto because of the cat scene. It may sound silly, but its true. When I saw Naruto visualizing the cats movements and develop a new idea. I was thinking, "this guy is no ordinary shounen hero."

Now however I merely cling to Naruto the manga,, hoping that Chouji comes back to prove Ino wrong.. Hoping Lee gets his big break. Hoping Naruto makes his original jutsu. Hoping Sasuke will display more emotion. I keep reading and hoping things will change.

I wish Kishi would go back to character driven manga over this plot driven manga

Kishi has even resorted to telling rather than showing

Part 2 of Naruto has been garbage. The only two fights I enjoyed were sasuke vs Deidara and Kisame vs Gai.

By the way everyone describes one piece, then I shall give it a second shot and a second chance.


----------



## Aldric (Jan 30, 2008)

Kitty Litter said:


> Did I just read somewhere that Sasuke>Zoro?
> 
> HAHAHA. Sorry I just don't see. Especially after the latest OP chapter.



You know, actually the latest chapters work well to describe the difference between Sasuke and Zoro, as both of them struck poses in the final pages.

Except Sasuke was just needlessly showing off, looking all pretty so that dozens of fangirls could slap him in their signatures, essentially being, as always, an empty shell of a character and a shallow poser.

While Zoro was standing arms crossed, looking like a mess, gallons of blood spread around him, on the verge of dying and having just suffered through hellish pain to save his comrades. And shrugging it off, as if it was no big deal.

Difference between a discount supermarket badass and a legit badass.


----------



## Zephos (Jan 30, 2008)

iander said:
			
		

> Even Kishi wants Oda to end his manga already.



Kishimoto is a fan of One Piece.
Yes, he is.



> Naruto definitely has its faults: over focus on sharingan, character development etc but it still appeals way more to me because its darker, more serious, character deaths, more depth to the fights, and an intriguing plot with a foreseeable end in sight.



lollin at all of those.
Especially the last one.
One Piece is almost ahlf way to the end, Naruto is, welp, I dunno, the kid has barely mentioned his goal for 30 volumes, if I were you I'd be worried sick.



> These are the kinds of things I look for in this type of manga.  One Piece lacks these qualities and im not going to stick around years and years to find out if it ever actually ends well.  And please, if your whole argument is asking me questions about the manga than please stop while your ahead and go get laid.



THIS IS MY OPINION ON A JAPANESE PRETEEN COMIC BOOK COMPARISON *insert akward alpha male posturing*


----------



## mootz (Jan 30, 2008)

before naruto there was one piece

after naruto there will be one piece

10 years after each serious is over which do you think people will be reading. the ninja manga that had a good start or the epic pirate manga that got better with each arc.


----------



## Fang (Jan 30, 2008)

Yeah, OP isn't full of or about angsty teenage pretty boys, and about ninjas, it sucks!


----------



## Zephos (Jan 30, 2008)

Shadowsbekon said:
			
		

> One piece plot is far from static, its all over the fuckin place. Never in my life have I read a manga with so many sets of characters who are dealt with quickly and never show up again.



Lone Wolf and Cub.
You say this as if its a bad thing.
Have you ever watched/read a serial style story? Your head would explode I guess.



> I'll say it again, with minor exceptions One Piece is a series of random events with one general story outline.



I had no idea story arcs were considered "random events".



> We have no evidence that Luffy is any closer than he was in chapter 1 to One Piece because we still know nothing about it.



I was able to theorize the exact identity of it using direct evidence in the manga so try harder I guess.
(Rio Poneglyph)
Were 9/10 of the way to Luffy's stated crewmate goal, and were near the half way point of the Grand Line.
Are you even paying attention?


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jan 30, 2008)

I do think in comparison to OP, Naruto's development of side characters, and even shamefully enough, the main character is far inferior. 

Naruto...I just don't see how this guy is going to acquire not only the strength, but the maturity to be a leader of a military village without some rushed training session and extremely rushed development. In comparison to One Piece, I can clearly see how Luffy is well on his way to Pirate King, and I can clearly see how Zoro is well on his way to surpassing Mihawk as the story progresses. I just can't see that with Naruto, at least not anymore...


----------



## Amatsu (Jan 30, 2008)

AkuOni said:


> One Piece is like DBZ with ships.



I just find it hilarious that most of the people in this thread that bash One Piece make it fucking obvious that they've never even read it.


----------



## Solieyu (Jan 30, 2008)

I don't read OP because I don't like the art style. :/


----------



## ardilla (Jan 30, 2008)

One piece for me. Although I was not much of a fan of the Thriller Bark ark. Finding it more enjoyable animated however.

I made a poll about this once in the manga battledome and i believe One Piece overtook both Bleach and Naruto by a fair amount. I will try to find the thread.


----------



## Fang (Jan 30, 2008)

It's painfully obvious most of the people bashing One Piece have never read it.

Badly so. Dragonball with ships?


----------



## ardilla (Jan 30, 2008)

Found the pole:

狼と香辛料 第04話 「狼と悲しき夢」 (1280×720 DivX611 120fps).avi

Seems that Naruto is winning at this point.


----------



## /root (Jan 30, 2008)

Again, more Naruto fans on a Naruto forum is hardly surprising.


----------



## Pepe Grillo (Jan 30, 2008)

Lol. pirate attack, pirate attack!! 

oh well, i havent seen One piece (just some anime chapters), but frankly I prefer naruto, I like the phedopile, eye plucking, naruto ignoring thing in the series lol.

Lol. OP in spanish: GOMU GOMU DE GOMAAAA!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Buggy The Clown (Jan 30, 2008)

I've read both I started out on Naruto, then I saw One Piece and I decided to watch it because I'm not going to sit through 2 years worth of naruto fillers. After I got to the Buggy Arc I was hooked I liked the way Luffy could just not know what the hell was going on when people asked him questions and I loved Zoro's character more than Sasuke because he was just more of a badass imo. 

I still read Naruto I just find it dumb that Kishi introduces a lot of characters and never incorporates them in the story or develops them. Rock Lee had one of the best fighting scenes I've seen with Gaara and since then hes just some guy. Shikamaru atleast got some development even though they had him kill off (even though he isn't dead) the most badass character in Naruto. The Naruto chasing after Sasuke is repetitive and Naruto being the main characted hasnt really developed anything new. The last chapter of Naruto was pretty good because I didn't actually see what Itachi had to say coming. The whole fight leading up to that was lame stabbed oh wait Genjutsu stabbed Oh another Genjutsu. 

Another thing is in Naruto everyone seems to rely heavily on the same tactics everytime it looks like someone died its a clone of some sort. where as One Piece their is always a new move. One Piece always finds time to develop other characters as the story goes on and how Oda can balance that many characters amazes me.

They are both great mangas I just prefer One Piece


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jan 30, 2008)

TWF said:


> Yeah, OP isn't full of or about angsty teenage pretty boys, and about ninjas, it sucks!



And it doesnt have staringcontests and dont contain any Uchiha, so yea it must suck!


----------



## Amatsu (Jan 30, 2008)

One Piece for me. The world, the plot, the characters, the fights, the adventure. What's not to love? There's just so much going on in the One Piece world that it does seem like the straw hat crew is just one small part of a huge world gone crazy. 

As far as Naruto goes it's all basically centered around Konoha, Suna, and all the forests in between. Yeah we may see bits and parts of maybe one of the other countries but overall when it doesn't have to do with Naruto and his rag tag pals the rest of the world is pretty nonexistant.

The majority of characters in Naruto who aren't part of Team 7 are flat and one-dimensional messes. They all have their stereotypical traits and then... that's it! You'll never see them grow past that. Heck just look at Naruto. He's 3 years older and hasn't changed at all. Even 340 showed that, and that was the shittiest chapter in the entire series. Naruto also has some of the worst villains imaginable. Heck the Genei Ryodan from Hunter x Hunter makes Akatsuki look like a pile of shit, and that's mainly because Akatsuki are S-class criminals getting OHKOed by fucking prepubescent kids. At least in One Piece the power system makes a whole heck of a lot more sense. I'm glad that in One Piece we've never gotten something like how Sasuke escaped Deidara for instance. 

And let's not even get into Orochimaru and Kabuto...

Also while the fights in One Piece may not be the most spectacular they're at least better than Naruto's usual "tactical" plan of spamming kage buushin and standing around while the enemy kicks his ass until he can OHKO the enemy with a fucking rasengan.

As far as drama goes I find the drama in One Piece far better. Because I actually feel something for the characters. I've never felt anything for any character in Naruto. Not to mention I find this whole brokeback mountain bullshit going on between Naruto and Sasuke annoying as heck. It was fine back during Naruto vs Sasuke. Now it's just plain gone too far.


----------



## FreshMint (Jan 30, 2008)

FreshMint said:


> Well, Since this is a battle of thoughts, I hope I do not insult anyone.
> 
> One Piece is good cause it has good plot. For example, it depicts every character in One Piece uniquely and every person is different, feels different. The more you know of someone and the differences they have to other people, the better you get to know them and the better you get to know how they change. And when I heard some people say that powers come out of nowhere I got annoyed seeing as how most Shounen manga have powers coming out of nowhere.
> 
> ...



That's what I said in another thread but its what I think


----------



## Dio Brando (Jan 30, 2008)

Let's see, One Piece has better art, characters, story, consistency and humour. What else do you want? 



Solieyu said:


> I don't read OP because I don't like the art style. :/



Then why did you post in this topic? Such a shallow and pointless opinion is the equivalent of spam.


----------



## Furious George (Jan 30, 2008)

Parallax said:


> I realized a lot reading this thread:
> 
> Some of you need to read more mangas and books
> Some of you can't debate or argue for shit
> ...



SO TRUE. 

Even ppl who I actually respect on these forums (Noble Avenger, I like you, but you have disappointed me in this thread) have made some of the shittiest arguments I have ever seen. Its almost like we are reading two completely different versions of OP.


----------



## Draxo (Jan 30, 2008)

OP started off alright, but it has some pretty bad flaws that I dont like, I stopped reading it after the ridiculous fishmen + Nanami arc.  Then I picked it up again while they were saving some princess on a chicken or something.. dropped it.  Read a few random chapters here and there when bored.. 

1, Art sryle: wonderful landscapes, but horribly drawn characters.

2, Stupid growth + character power.  It seems like rubber can do anything and take any damage etc.. its ridiculous.  And the characters seemingly never have to train to gain any power.. they just magically assume the new level of power whenever it is required.  The most human character is a conflict between Nami and Zoro.. and even Zoro has displayed super strength.  And oh yes.. bandages heal any wound.  I like Nami.

3, It was going nowhere.  Its a cash cow with a never ending story going from subplot to subplot.



Dio Brando said:


> Let's see, One Piece has better art, characters, story, consistency and humour. What else do you want?



Matters of opinion.  The landscape art is wonderful, but the characters.. god, do I even need to post pictures of the clown or the nose guy or Zoro's mouth the size of Zoro's chest or whatever?  

The story: another matter of opinion.  To me it is going nowhere.  It entirely depends on the genre preference of the reader.  I do admit that it seems to me Kishi has scrapped his own plot in favor of another in recent times.

Humour is entirely dependant o the reader.. but Naruto was never intended to be a humorous series.

Characters: see my #2.  They are very one dimentional, at least up to where I read.. the only character I will stand up and call a wonderful character is Nami.  She seems human to me.  Zoro and Luffi do not cut it.  I find them ridiculous in terms of growth and ability.




> Then why did you post in this topic? Such a shallow and pointless opinion is the equivalent of spam.



Your post said the exact same thing.  You said what you found good, he said what he found bad.  preferences, opinions.  He is entirely in his right to say what he found a turnoff in a comic debating preferences between two Manga's.

We're arguing on the internets, yay.


----------



## Furious George (Jan 30, 2008)

Draxo said:


> OP started off alright, but it has some pretty bad flaws that I dont like,* I stopped reading it after the ridiculous fishmen + Nanami arc.*



This immediately makes me question how well you can analyze OP, but lets continue.



> 1, Art sryle: wonderful landscapes, but horribly drawn characters.



Hmmm.... art style is particularly subjective, but I think it is going a little too far saying they are horribly drawn. Truthfully Oda uses a baser level of detail when it comes to drawing characters as opposed to Kishimoto, but then again Oda's characters tend to be drawn in that manner with consistency. Kishi has a habit of drawing characters excellently in their introductions, and then getting extremely lazy and sloppy like he doesn't give a damn (esp. in Part II). There are part II pictures of Shikamaru where he looked like a grown man, and then suddenly he looked like he hadn't grown since Part I at all. Sakura looks like a depressed man, and Karin's hair looks like a blot of gunky ink.



> 2, Stupid growth + character power.  It seems like rubber can do anything and take any damage etc.. its ridiculous.



Luffy has been royally fucked up on several occasions, so this is false. He has a habit of surviving impossible odds, but there is no hero in a shounen that doesn't. And whenever his rubberness has protected him from something it has made a lot of logical sense with the laws of science to back it up (even though Oda hardly had to explain himself in that manner... again, its a shounen. A childrens' story)  



> And the characters seemingly never have to train to gain any power.. they just magically assume the new level of power whenever it is required.



In between the Straw-hats island adventures, there is always a sense that a lot of time has passed between them. Those times in between adventures are presumed to be the moments when they train (presumptions supported by Zoro weigt-lifting and such during those times). I guess OP's assumption is that the reader would get the point... rather then devoting chapters and wasting panel space with training sessions that are painful to read... (sorry, couldn't resist).  



> The most human character is Zoro.. and even he has displayed super strength.  And oh yes.. bandages heal any wound.



Again, shounen. If we are to throw around such silly arguments, the Naruto series will come out looking just as ridiculous.



> 3, It was going nowhere. Its a cash cow with a never ending story going from subplot to subplot.



Baseless claim, and one you really have no right to make since you stopped reading it at about the 5th volume.


----------



## Aldric (Jan 30, 2008)

Where the hell does that "Oda's characters are less detailed than Kishi's" argument come from? 

No matter how much you dislike his style or think his characters look retarded, find me one Naruto character with a level of details in his outfit and overall design that even remotely compare to a guy like Gecko Moria.

For the most part Kishimoto's characters are recolorations of his bishonen template, only eyes and hair differ, with his main antagonists having all the same bland outfit.


----------



## Hatifnatten (Jan 30, 2008)

I hate both.


----------



## cloudsymph (Jan 30, 2008)

'REDHAIRED' SHANKS said:


> I am sorry but how many manga series have you read ??
> there are a lot of shounen with better story and artwork than naruto ..... FMA, JJBA, HxH, Hikaru no Go, Kekkaishi,  are a few that come to the top of my mind ... and Death Note *is* shounen



obviously the most he has read is 4 and that be OP, Naruto, Bleach, DBZ.

anyways i can only contribute to this thread via what the masses say and big long comparisons that i have read.  OP>naruto.  also i don't really think naruto is a great manga anyways it had great potential to be one of the greats but after the zabuza arc it kind of was meh.

god damn my friend extHDD breaking or i would have all the OP up to date.........


----------



## mystictrunks (Jan 30, 2008)

Noble Avenger said:


> Naruto, by miles. It actually has plot progression, a GOOD and somewhat new fighting structure, much better cohesion (you see how everything is actually coming together), and better supporting characters and villains. Luffy >> Naruto, but Sasuke >>>>> Zoro, and Naruto villains, in general, are far more appealing and less repetitive than OP villains. OP has become a Dragonball with Pirates and NO foreseeable end in sight. It is all characters and very little plot.
> 
> OP doesn't even crack my top 10 all-time. Naruto would be in the top 3.



Dang you need to step your manga game up if Narito is in your top 3.


Everything in OP is coming together. We know where One Piece is(Raftel) The World Government is getting ready to make a big move as are the Yonkou. A big protagonist has been introduced(BlackBeard) and so on.

Also how can you compare Sasuke and Zoro they fuffill two different roles which you would know if you read the series. A better comparasion would be Sasuke and Black Beard.

Step your comprehension game up.


----------



## Nodonn (Jan 30, 2008)

I don't know why, but I can't seem to get into OP every time I try.
Seems like I need to try harder as it's very good apperantly.


----------



## Maycara (Jan 30, 2008)

cloudsymph said:


> obviously the most he has read is 4 and that be OP, Naruto, Bleach, DBZ.
> 
> anyways i can only contribute to this thread via what the masses say and big long comparisons that i have read.  OP>naruto.  also i don't really think naruto is a great manga anyways it had great potential to be one of the greats but after the zabuza arc it kind of was meh.
> 
> god damn my friend extHDD breaking or i would have all the OP up to date.........



YOu jump to assumptions my friend, i posted after his post how many i have read..and its alot more then 4...more near 10-15. But i dont feel like looking for my post...so you do it


----------



## Aldric (Jan 30, 2008)

Nodonn said:


> I don't know why, but I can't seem to get into OP every time I try.
> Seems like I need to try harder as it's very good apperantly.



If you don't like it you don't like it, just because some guys on the internet like something it doesn't mean you have to force yourself to like it too.

It's just that people criticizing One Piece generally don't have intelligent points at all. Especially in this thread.


----------



## Maycara (Jan 30, 2008)

Aldric said:


> If you don't like it you don't like it, just because some guys on the internet like something it doesn't mean you have to force yourself to like it too.
> 
> It's just that people criticizing One Piece generally don't have intelligent points at all. Especially in this thread.



Hey now! I think ive providing some good points. I've even insulted Naruto to get those points across  I am not bias really since I like both pretty much equally...just like Naruto a bit more...


----------



## fghj (Jan 30, 2008)

OP is not bad but I enjoy Naruto a lot more. OP is too childish and predictable to me. Also OP fanboys make me like it less.


----------



## Sasuke_fanboy (Jan 30, 2008)

One piece has sir Crocodile in it, which makes it automatically > naruto


----------



## Parallax (Jan 30, 2008)

You know my problem with this thread is?  It's the way the OP haters are describing the story and saying it's not going anywhere when this is pure BS.  Look you don't have to like the series, I could give a shit.  But when you start saying the story is going nowhere, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about and should just stop while you are ahead.


----------



## Fang (Jan 30, 2008)

Indeed Parallax. But at least Oda doesn't draw 90% of his fights with forests or empty skies in the background.


----------



## Gritz (Jan 30, 2008)

fghj said:


> OP is not bad but I enjoy Naruto a lot more. OP is too childish and predictable to me. Also OP fanboys make me like it less.



Very true.  I agree.  Can we just shake hands and admit that both mangakas do very different things and have very different intents of their story?  

Please, for me?


----------



## Taleran (Jan 30, 2008)

lotta stuff off in this thread this post in particular stood out



Noble Avenger said:


> and Naruto villains, in general, are far more appealing and less repetitive than OP villains.



really I could go into detail here but I have a much better idea




/nuff said, thats not even including the latest arc


----------



## Maycara (Jan 30, 2008)

Taleran said:


> lotta stuff off in this thread this post in particular stood out
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not really nuff said, I agree with him. In Op, I Like Enel,(Eneru, Whatever) Lucchi, Ace(but is he really a bad guy? u have him there.....)
Kaku, Jyabura(wolf dude) Are the only ones that ever appeled to me.
Mihawk
Kuro
Aojkin or whatever is okay, but not really interesting to me... 


While In Naruto I like..

Zabuza
Haku
Orchimaru
Kimimaro
Kabuto
Gaara(he was bad...)
Zaku
Spider Dude(forgot his name)
Deidara
Sasori
Hidan
Kukuzu
Itachi
Kisame
Pein
Kohan
Zetsu

Pretty much all the villians in the series...lol


----------



## John Locke (Jan 30, 2008)

I enjoy them both, but Naruto is the better manga in my opinion. Sure it has it flaws, but One Piece has more. I've never really been able to see what's going on in a OP fight, I think it's drawn a little too hectic.

Also the fact that only characters of no importence has died in OP outside of flashbacks, makes it a little hard to take the story seriously.


----------



## Parallax (Jan 30, 2008)

Minzara said:


> Not really nuff said, I agree with him. In Op, I Like Enel,(Eneru, Whatever) Lucchi, Ace(but is he really a bad guy? u have him there.....)
> Kaku, Jyabura(wolf dude) Are the only ones that ever appeled to me.
> Mihawk
> Kuro
> ...




Taleran was talking about their desings.  How Oda has his villains each look unique and doesn't repeat designs.

Honestly people, reading comprehension.  Fucking use it!


----------



## Shisui (Jan 30, 2008)

This is quite an insightful thread! Here's my summation so far...

1.) OP > Naruto because it has better heroes, better villains, better plot progression, and more engaging storylines

2.) Naruto > OP because it has better heroes, better villains, better plot progression, and more engaging storylines

I think I just achieved enlightenment


----------



## Maycara (Jan 30, 2008)

Parallax said:


> Taleran was talking about their desings.  How Oda has his villains each look unique and doesn't repeat designs.
> 
> Honestly people, reading comprehension.  Fucking use it!



Didnt seem like that, The person said this and I quote



> and Naruto villains, in general, are far more appealing and less repetitive than OP villains



That can be understood either way...

Then he posted a pic....

That could also be to show the characters, or there designs. Again it can go either way.

How is it lack of reading comprehension when the intial post is vague? How about you try to think about things more before you flame people? You my friend have already become a enemy of me, for so quickly insulting me for no reason.


----------



## KLoWn (Jan 30, 2008)

Gentz said:


> This is quite an insightful thread! Here's my summation so far...
> 
> 1.) OP > Naruto because it has better heroes, better villains, better plot progression, and more engaging storylines
> 
> ...



Nah but seriously, that pretty much sums this thread up.


----------



## Unbreakable (Jan 30, 2008)

Aldric said:


> If you don't like it you don't like it, just because some guys on the internet like something it doesn't mean you have to force yourself to like it too.
> 
> It's just that people criticizing One Piece generally don't have intelligent points at all. Especially in this thread.



Seriously, you cant force yourself to like something. 

IDK, as for me, i tried to get into OP but it just didnt appeal to me at all. I think its mostly because of the character design. Non realistic looking characters dont appeal to me.


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Jan 30, 2008)

I'm not saying this just because I'm a OP fanboy, because originally I thought Naruto was way better, and I found it hard to get into OP.

Oda is far and away the superior author he makes Kishi look like an amateur in terms of art style, detail, characterization, blending humor with drama, and just about everything else. 

One Piece is the most well balanced and unpredictable Shonen around right now imo. Naruto has been steadily losing steam since Part 2 started.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Jan 30, 2008)

I've tried to get into one piece numerous times, I just can''t get into the story, its not my thing.

My big problem with a lot of the one piece fans here is I keep hearing a lot of really arrogant responses.  "You liked Naruto better than One Piece?  Obviously you have no reading comprehension" or "you didn't like one piece?  Obviously you didn't understand it".

Does the fact that someone didn't like the art or story or characters mean they somehow aren't as smart as you?


----------



## Furious George (Jan 30, 2008)

Tsukiyomi said:


> My big problem with a lot of the one piece fans here is I keep hearing a lot of really arrogant responses.  "You liked Naruto better than One Piece?  Obviously you have no reading comprehension" or "you didn't like one piece?  Obviously you didn't understand it".
> 
> Does the fact that someone didn't like the art or story or characters mean they somehow aren't as smart as you?



If all they were doing was stating their opinions and leaving it at that, there would be no issue. But a good lot of the Naruto fans hear who attempted to explain why they liked Naruto better felt the need to out-right insult OP (and doing a piss-poor job at it) while bringing evidence to the table that didn't make any sense, wasn't true, and more or less showed that they did not have the slightest clue as to what was going on in OP (mainly because they don't read it) or what they were talking about (making us question their intelligence). Read some of the pro-Naruto posts and see if I am talking out of my ass here. 

Seriously, many Naruto fans came here with arrogance and we made fun of them for it. Why are we the only ones being targetted for "bad behavior" here?

Why are OP fans always made out to be the villains?


----------



## Maycara (Jan 30, 2008)

Cyckness said:


> If all they were doing was stating their opinions and leaving it at that, there would be no issue. But a good lot of the Naruto fans hear who attempted to explain why they liked Naruto better felt the need to out-right insult OP (and doing a piss-poor job at it) while bringing evidence to the table that didn't make any sense, wasn't true, and more or less showed that they did not have the slightest clue as to what was going on in OP (mainly because they don't read it) or what they were talking about. Read some of the pro-Naruto posts and see if I am talking out of my ass here.
> 
> Why are OP fans always made out to be the villains?



It went both ways actually, there were Naruto fans, and OP fans insulting, then the ones inbetween trying to talk facts. Or personal feelings....I gave up with it and left the thread at some point because it became pointless to debate about facts, or personal feelings...cause no one was listening...


----------



## MdB (Jan 30, 2008)

fghj said:


> OP is not bad but I enjoy Naruto a lot more. OP is too childish and predictable to me.



BOTH ARE AIMED AT THE SAME AGE GROUP. Without a doubt, this is one of the most ignorant arguments in this thread.... Especially when One Piece is so childish that we have big meanies shooting the fucking brains out of a certain mom right in front of her children.



fghj said:


> Also OP fanboys make me like it less.



And this should make you look any better...? TRY AGAIN THAR....


----------



## iander (Jan 30, 2008)

The thing is people are comparing them like its actually an objective matter when its completely subjective.  Also, since when did not liking an art style mean you are shallow or an idiot? Last time I checked, art has a lot to to with whether someones likes or dislikes a manga.  If we were reading books with some pictures than maybe that could be accurate but these are manga.  Im not going to say OPtards are any meaner than Narutards but this stupid childish rhetoric and name calling doesnt add anything to this thread.


----------



## KLoWn (Jan 30, 2008)

MdB said:


> BOTH ARE AIMED AT THE SAME AGE GROUP.


Im pretty sure most of the people using that argument refers to the "Cartoony" look in OP.


----------



## Maycara (Jan 30, 2008)

KLoWn said:


> Just take a look in the "OP vs Naruto" thread in the OP section and you should understand why.
> Most OP fans have a pretty obvious "Lolz how the hell can you think Naruto is better than OP you idiot"-tone set in their writting.



Ya its currently me VS like 50 OP fans there...i am holding my self quite well actually, lol.


----------



## Dio Brando (Jan 30, 2008)

fghj said:


> OP is not bad but I enjoy Naruto a lot more. OP is too childish and predictable to me. Also OP fanboys make me like it less.


What and Naruto fanboys and girls make it better? 


Draxo said:


> OP started off alright, but it has some pretty bad flaws that I dont like, I stopped reading it after the ridiculous fishmen + Nanami arc.  Then I picked it up again while they were saving some princess on a chicken or something.. dropped it.  Read a few random chapters here and there when bored..


Reading random chapters doesn't help in a story that revolves around arcs. The more you read the better it gets.... unlike another certain manga.


> 1, Art sryle: wonderful landscapes, but horribly drawn characters.


The characters are diverse and Oda has a unique style. How is that worse than Kishi bland generic rehashes? 


> 2, Stupid growth + character power.  It seems like rubber can do anything and take any damage etc.. its ridiculous.  And the characters seemingly never have to train to gain any power.. they just magically assume the new level of power whenever it is required.  The most human character is a conflict between Nami and Zoro.. and even Zoro has displayed super strength.  And oh yes.. bandages heal any wound.  I like Nami.


 You know, constantly fighting difficult battles gives you more training and experience than any training arc. Besides we do know that the strawhats (the main strong ones) train, but they do so offscreen because it's irrelevant and boring.


> 3, It was going nowhere.  Its a cash cow with a never ending story going from subplot to subplot.


Considering Oda had it planned out for only five years because he didn't think it would become that popular shows that it's quite the opposite. Besides if there is any manga and mangaka that are milking the cash cow than Naruto and Kishimoto would fit the bill perfectly. Have you seen how much merchandising there is? Or how Kishimoto would rather service fanboys and girls rather than create a decent story?




> Matters of opinion.  The landscape art is wonderful, but the characters.. god, do I even need to post pictures of the clown or the nose guy or Zoro's mouth the size of Zoro's chest or whatever?


It's a style. And making the mouth bigger is what we call comedic effect. Sort of like when Naruto gets smacked by Sakura for whatever stupid reason. That you can't even remember their names shows how little you truly know about OP, so why are you here flaunting Naruto as a better series?



> The story: another matter of opinion.  To me it is going nowhere.  It entirely depends on the genre preference of the reader.  I do admit that it seems to me Kishi has scrapped his own plot in favor of another in recent times.


You haven't read enough to judge the story. Besides, the strawhats are much closer to their goal (entering the second half of the grand line)than Naruto will ever be. (Has Sasuke been saved? What about trying to become Hokage? )


> Humour is entirely dependant o the reader.. but Naruto was never intended to be a humorous series.


It was intented to be a typical shonen, which means a mix of action, comedy, drama, etc. Just like One Piece, although OP does put have more humour. 



> Characters: see my #2.  They are very one dimentional, at least up to where I read.. the only character I will stand up and call a wonderful character is Nami.  She seems human to me.  Zoro and Luffi do not cut it.  I find them ridiculous in terms of growth and ability.


I find children defeating s-ranked criminals that are supposed to be far more powerful than they are for no logical reason whatsoever much more ridiculous. 




> Your post said the exact same thing.  You said what you found good, he said what he found bad.  preferences, opinions.  He is entirely in his right to say what he found a turnoff in a comic debating preferences between two Manga's.
> 
> We're arguing on the internets, yay.


Reading comprehension helps in these cases. He said that he hasn't read it because he didn't like the art style. Which would be fine, but there is no need for someone to post about something they do not know. 


Parallax said:


> You know my problem with this thread is?  It's the way the OP haters are describing the story and saying it's not going anywhere when this is pure BS.  Look you don't have to like the series, I could give a shit.  But when you start saying the story is going nowhere, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about and should just stop while you are ahead.


This is very true.


----------



## Rhaella (Jan 30, 2008)

I dislike OP art so intensely that I can't even begin to read it, though from what I gather, Luffy is an even more irritatingly inane character than Naruto.


----------



## afro luffy (Jan 30, 2008)

Like a lot of people here, I picked up naruto before one piece.  It started off really good with lots of potential.  Then everything started going downhill once it reached part II.  Part II manga was slow and the anime was in it's 2 years of fillers so I decided to pick up one piece.  It started off kind of slow but once I reached the arlong arc, i was hooked.  A lot of people say that they don't like one piece because it's not realistic, but honestly, which manga is?  Isn't that why we pick up a manga and read in the first place, because it's fiction?  but whatever, everyone has their own oppinion.  With that being said, imo, op>>>>naruto.  better characters, better villains, better story, better comedy, better fights, ect.  And the thing about no training, I think most agree that the strawhats get their training done while traveling in b/w islands.  I don't know about you, but it's painful for me to watch slow training arcs when you know that the characters are going to "miraculously" achieve what they want to.  but to each their own.  I've dropped the naruto anime and I'm behind in the manga, so you can take that as my answer.


----------



## Furious George (Jan 30, 2008)

KLoWn said:


> Just take a look in the "OP vs Naruto" thread in the OP section and you should understand why.
> Most OP fans have a pretty obvious "Lolz how the hell can you think Naruto is better than OP you idiot"-tone set in their writting.



That goes both ways, my friend. I could easily post a link to this thread, say that Naruto fans have a "Naruto is SO much better OP style sucks ninjas>pirates " tone set in their writing and it would be just as true... and I am completely fine with that. *My* thing is ppl are specifically demonizing OP fans as though there was no bashing coming from their end. Its complete bullshit.


----------



## Taleran (Jan 30, 2008)

KLoWn said:


> Im pretty sure most of the people using that argument refers to the "Cartoony" look in OP.



that doesn't change the fact that neither of them are really mature in the manga department and both aimed at kids in the 1st place


----------



## KLoWn (Jan 30, 2008)

Cyckness said:


> That goes both ways, my friend. I could easily post a link to this thread, say that Naruto fans have a "Naruto is SO much better OP style sucks ninjas>pirates " tone set in their writing and it would be just as true... and I am completely fine with that.


Yeah im not denying it probably goes both way when it comes to Naruto and One Piece, but since im in the OP section way more than in the library i see alot more of the later.


Taleran said:


> that doesn't change the fact that neither of them are really mature in the manga department and both aimed at kids in the 1st place


Yes, but the OP style & characters still has a more cartoony look, and it seems to scare people away for some reason.


----------



## Taleran (Jan 30, 2008)

Which is kinda funny when OP is the more violent of the 2


----------



## Furious George (Jan 30, 2008)

Taleran said:


> Which is kinda funny when OP is the more violent of the 2



This I found pretty funny when I first began to read OP. I was avoiding it because it looked very kiddie and I thought it would be a bit too "sugary" for my taste. Then I gave it a shot.... imagine my surprise when a bandit gets his head blown off execution-style in the very first chapter! I fell in love since then.


----------



## Shisui (Jan 30, 2008)

KLoWn said:


> Yes, but the OP style & characters still has a more cartoony look, and it seems to scare people away for some reason.



Yeah, his proportions and style are really wacky, which seems to turn a lot of people off. But technically speaking, Oda's a better artist than Kishimoto. I never got into OP, but it still bugs me when people say the art sucks. That's one thing I'll give OP fans.

(neither of 'em can hold a candle to Miura though )


----------



## Creator (Jan 30, 2008)

I say Naruto. 

It interested me more then OP did.


----------



## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 30, 2008)

Creator said:


> I say Naruto.
> 
> It interested me more then OP did.



*How so? Besides Tsunade. 

To me, Naruto part one was pretty interesting. I loved just about everything about it. the start of part two wasn't bad, then it went downhil. t like flash speed. 

*


----------



## fghj (Jan 30, 2008)

StrawHat4Life said:


> One Piece is the most well balanced and unpredictable Shonen around right now imo. Naruto has been steadily losing steam since Part 2 started.


I don't know what you mean by balanced but unpredictable? Most arcs in OP are the same - they find a new island, villains show up, Luffy gets the strongest one, usually they recruit someone new.



> What and Naruto fanboys and girls make it better?


I don't see Naruto or Bleach or whatever fanboys insulting other people because they don't worship their manga...



> BOTH ARE AIMED AT THE SAME AGE GROUP. Without a doubt, this is one of the most ignorant arguments in this thread.... Especially when One Piece is so childish that we have big meanies shooting the fucking brains out of a certain mom right in front of her children.


It's not about violence but it bothers me that most of the time characters make stupid faces:


or cry their eyes out or generally act like retards.

And the design is sometimes plain ugly.


*Spoiler*: __ 





What the fuck is this?


----------



## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 30, 2008)

fghj said:


> I don't know what you mean by balanced but unpredictable? Most arcs in OP are the same - they find a new island, villains show up, Luffy gets the strongest one, usually they recruit someone new.



*You just listed the most basic part that are almost guarenteed to happen because of the nature of the series. What unpredictable is the stuff in between. 

I mean, for the most part we know that the protagonists are going to fulfill their goal, but that doesn't make a story any less interesting. 
*


----------



## Taleran (Jan 30, 2008)

fghj said:


> I don't know what you mean by balanced but unpredictable? Most arcs in OP are the same - they find a new island, villains show up, Luffy gets the strongest one, usually they recruit someone new.





thats like not reading a book because you know the heroes are gonna win


----------



## Fang (Jan 30, 2008)

How much closer is Naruto in obtaining his goal in becoming Hokage then Luffy becoming the Pirate King right now, Moria's been beaten and Luffy's about to start in the New World.


----------



## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 30, 2008)

TWF said:


> How much closer is Naruto in obtaining his goal in becoming Hokage then Luffy becoming the Pirate King right now, Moria's been beaten and Luffy's about to start in the New World.


*
Naruto has rasengan. *


----------



## Rising_East (Jan 30, 2008)

I read OP up to the... "Sky Country" (?) arc. Oda is a much better script writer. But One Piece, just like the life of pirates, is a series of adventure that doesn't seem to come to an end. Naruto looks like a more carefully arranged story in terms of plot progression. 

And the "spirit" of pirates and ninjas are obviously different, too. Again, Oda likes to pull out a lot of drama between his characters. Kinda like watching a soap opera.


----------



## Fang (Jan 30, 2008)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> *
> Naruto has rasengan. *



Gear 3 - Giant Bone Ballon.


----------



## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 30, 2008)

Rising_East said:


> I read OP up to the... "Sky Country" (?) arc. Oda is a much better script writer. But One Piece, just like the life of pirates, is a series of adventure that doesn't seem to come to an end. Naruto looks like a more carefully arranged story in terms of plot progression.
> 
> And the "spirit" of pirates and ninjas are obviously different, too. Again, Oda likes to pull out drama between his characters. Kinda like watching a soap opera.


*
Personally, I like the fact that OP keep going and going and goin and going

TWF - lol rasengan > gears *


----------



## Rising_East (Jan 30, 2008)

Taleran said:


> I think you spelt Kishimoto wrong


 If I ever spelled it. 



Pimp of Pimps said:


> *
> Personally, I like the fact that OP keep going and going and goin and going
> 
> TWF - lol rasengan > gears *


Yeah... Maybe my kids and I will have something to talk about in the future. :amazed


----------



## Fang (Jan 30, 2008)

I like the fact that not every single male character in OP is a pretty boy designed for fan-service.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Jan 30, 2008)

TWF said:


> How much closer is Naruto in obtaining his goal in becoming Hokage then Luffy becoming the Pirate King right now, Moria's been beaten and Luffy's about to start in the New World.



Naruto is actually significantly closer and stronger than he was when he started.  I actually like that its taking him a realistic period of time for Naruto to get his goal.  Becoming the strongest person of all time SHOULD take several years.


----------



## Taleran (Jan 30, 2008)

Rising_East said:


> If I ever spelled it.



of course you didn't 





> Naruto is actually significantly closer and stronger than he was when he started. I actually like that its taking him a realistic period of time for Naruto to get his goal. Becoming the strongest person of all time SHOULD take several years.




that didn't really do anything addressing the question though


----------



## Fang (Jan 30, 2008)

Really? After nearly 3 years, Naruto just reached the level of Kakashi, who is weaker then the weakest member of Akatsuki. 

I'd say your overrating his development.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Jan 30, 2008)

Taleran said:


> that didn't really do anything addressing the question though



Talking about Naruto's progress doesn't address the question?



TWF said:


> Really? After nearly 3 years, Naruto just reached the level of Kakashi, who is weaker then the weakest member of Akatsuki.
> 
> I'd say your overrating his development.



So....he only develops if he becomes the strongest person in the world in an unrealistically short period of time?

He went from being the absolute weakest and worst person in his class to surpassing the level of the strongest Jounin in Konoha in 3 years.  Yeah, totally over rating his development.


----------



## KLoWn (Jan 30, 2008)

TWF said:


> Really? After nearly 3 years, Naruto just reached the level of Kakashi, who is weaker then the weakest member of Akatsuki.
> 
> I'd say your overrating his development.


Since Kakashi is a candidate for the next Hokage position i would say Naruto is somewhat close to his goal.


----------



## omegashadow (Jan 30, 2008)

Rising_East said:


> I read OP up to the... "Sky Country" (?) arc. Oda is a much better script writer. But One Piece, just like the life of pirates, is a series of adventure that doesn't seem to come to an end. Naruto looks like a more carefully arranged story in terms of plot progression.
> 
> And the "spirit" of pirates and ninjas are obviously different, too. Again, Oda likes to pull out a lot of drama between his characters. Kinda like watching a soap opera.



yeah exactly. i was wondering how far OP will go. naruto has a deffinite end of plot thingy. akatsuki beatin orochimaru beaten naruto hokage plot over naruto ends.


----------



## AkuOni (Jan 30, 2008)

And, Naruto is starting his road to stardom by being more aware about the goals of the aktsuki, Luffy doesn't care, he just wants to get to the grand line.


----------



## Fang (Jan 30, 2008)

AkuOni said:


> And, Naruto is starting his road to stardom by being more aware about the goals of the aktsuki, Luffy doesn't care, he just wants to get to the grand line.



Your about as wrong as one can get.


----------



## Buggy The Clown (Jan 30, 2008)

Lmao hes in the grand line. whats the point of you posting if you have no idea about the story or whats going on.


----------



## Slips (Jan 30, 2008)

AkuOni said:


> And, Naruto is starting his road to stardom by being more aware about the goals of the aktsuki, Luffy doesn't care, he just wants to get to the grand line.



He got to the grand line about 5 years ago

lol posting in a naruto section


----------



## AkuOni (Jan 30, 2008)

I meant One Piece.


----------



## KLoWn (Jan 30, 2008)

Slips said:


> lol posting in a naruto section


Ain't it cozy in here


----------



## Amatsu (Jan 30, 2008)

fghj said:


> OP is not bad but I enjoy Naruto a lot more. OP is too childish and predictable to me. Also OP fanboys make me like it less.



I honestly don't see how someone can say Naruto isn't childish in one breath. Then in the next say One Piece IS childish. So does death and pre teen angst really make Naruto seem less childish? Because that's just plain laughable.


----------



## Supa Swag (Jan 30, 2008)

John Locke said:


> Also the fact that only characters of no importence has died in OP outside of flashbacks, *makes it a little hard to take the story seriously.*




Well...that's kinda the point. OP has a decent amount of depth but at the same time it's not meant to be taken too seriously. It's a series that leans heavily on the fantasy aspect, where as Naruto tries to use realism.


----------



## Fang (Jan 30, 2008)

I would love to see anyone call the Alabasta or Skypieda/Enies Lobby Arc's "cartoony" or "kiddy".


----------



## KLoWn (Jan 30, 2008)

Sengoku said:


> actually if you look at this thread, it is true that most of pro naruto fans DONT know wtf they are talking about.
> 
> example: zephos called "john doe" out on a question which DOE couldnt even answer. yet, DOE insisted that he has seen most if not all of OP manga.
> blatant lies are so retarded esp when you dont consider/read both sides of the mangas and deliberately state that manga A is better.
> ...


I haven't even read most of this thread tbh, like i said, im going by my overall experience when it comes to the Naruto vs OP fans.


----------



## Supa Swag (Jan 30, 2008)

TWF said:


> I would love to see anyone call the Alabasta or Skypieda/Enies Lobby Arc's "cartoony" or "kiddy".



BUT ONE OF DEM TURNZ IN2 AH GRAFFE! DATS SO CHLDISH!


----------



## Taleran (Jan 30, 2008)

John Locke said:


> Also the fact that only characters of no importence has died in OP outside of flashbacks, makes it a little hard to take the story seriously.




well now about time someone posted this gem

DEATH MAKES MAH MANGAS SERIOUS BUISNESS YO


----------



## Hibari Kyoya (Jan 30, 2008)

AkuOni said:


> And, Naruto is starting his road to stardom by being more aware about the goals of the aktsuki, Luffy doesn't care, he just wants to get to the grand line.



   he got on the grand line years ago.


----------



## KLoWn (Jan 30, 2008)

Kaku turning into a giraffe sucked.
Don't care if it was childish or not.


----------



## Shisui (Jan 30, 2008)

Sengoku said:


> actually if you look at this thread, it is true that most of pro naruto fans DONT know wtf they are talking about.
> 
> example: zephos called "john doe" out on a question which DOE couldnt even answer. yet, DOE insisted that he has seen most if not all of OP manga.
> blatant lies are so retarded esp when you dont consider/read both sides of the mangas and deliberately state that manga A is better.
> ...



Yeah, every time I come to *NARUTOfan.com*, and post on the board for discussing the *NARUTO manga*, I'm always like "Man! How come these idiots don't know shit about OnePiece??" They so STUPID!


----------



## Furious George (Jan 30, 2008)

KLoWn said:


> Kaku turning into a giraffe sucked.
> Don't care if it was childish or not.




I thought it was fuckin' hilarious.



Gentz said:


> Yeah, every time I come to *NARUTOfan.com*, and post on the board for discussing the *NARUTO manga*, I'm always like "Man! How come these idiots don't know shit about OnePiece??" They so STUPID!



Dude. This is a discussion about both Naruto and One Piece, so we are completely within reason to expect the participants of the thread to know about both series. 

Sarcasm only works when you know how to use it. Put it down before you hurt yourself.


----------



## mootz (Jan 30, 2008)

the problem with this debate is that 90% of the people picking naruto have no clue what op really is

either the art turned them off or they didnt bother reading/watching it.

it would be nice if there where people who read both that posted but the people who do seem mostly in support of op like myself

funny thread


----------



## KLoWn (Jan 30, 2008)

Cyckness said:


> I thought it was fuckin' hilarious.


Yeah most people probably thought that, but it just killed the fight for me.
I was pumped up about seeing Kaku vs Zoro, not Zoro vs some fuckin zoo animal.


----------



## Fang (Jan 30, 2008)

Gentz said:


> Yeah, every time I come to *NARUTOfan.com*, and post on the board for discussing the *NARUTO manga*, I'm always like "Man! How come these idiots don't know shit about OnePiece??" They so STUPID!



Horribly pathetic cop-out.


----------



## mortsleam (Jan 30, 2008)

The weakest people in OP will own Naruto characters.


----------



## Maycara (Jan 30, 2008)

KLoWn said:


> Kaku turning into a giraffe sucked.
> Don't care if it was childish or not.



Kaku is the shit!!!!

My second fav OP char lol


----------



## MdB (Jan 30, 2008)

fghj said:


> I don't know what you mean by balanced but unpredictable? Most arcs in OP are the same - they find a new island, villains show up, Luffy gets the strongest one, usually they recruit someone new.



Using that kind of logic, the same applies to Naruto. Konoha is looking for Akatsuki members, fight in a random forest and afterwards the S-Class criminals are beaten by a bunch of unexperienced brats. In One Piece, every island has its own history, culture and characters which offers a greater adventure and more storytelling possibilities. 



fghj said:


> I don't see Naruto or Bleach or whatever fanboys insulting other people because they don't worship their manga...



Yes, they do. The OP fanbase isn't the only one being guilty of saying and posting retarded shit on the net. Denying that is pure delusion. 



fghj said:


> It's not about violence but it bothers me that most of the time characters make stupid faces:



Stupid faces? I'm sorry, but I'd say it's pretty realistic when you expres an emotion because you see your own damn grandson again (that you haven't seen for a damn long time). But of course, prefering those shallow and retarded botox faces (that Kishi likes to draws) is more logical....



fghj said:


> or cry their eyes out or generally act like retards.



Jesus, what is wrong with the way Oda expresses emotional stress of his characters? Because they show actually tears and snotty noses? People dont look pretty if they're crying (that's the harsh and crual reality). There's a reason why the emotional scenes in One Piece have more impact on me than the ones from Naruto. And the characters are only acting like retards in humorous scenes, Naruto is guilty of that too, so your point on that matter is moot.



fghj said:


> And the design is sometimes plain ugly.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



Thanks for pointing out the obvious, captain obvious. Her design was made to be ugly, that was the whole damn point. But since you want to go with bad designs. You can pretty much list 70% or 80% of Naruto's earthshaking character designs that consist of pretty boys that all share the same damn body and facial features.

Truly groundbreaking.


----------



## Fang (Jan 30, 2008)

Possessing Garp solely puts OP >>>>>> in character design and quality over anything in Naruto.


----------



## KLoWn (Jan 30, 2008)

Gentz said:


> 7. The end...?


Oh lawlz hardly. We got atleast 20 pages left until this thread gets closed due to flaming


----------



## Dio Brando (Jan 30, 2008)

fghj said:


> I don't see Naruto or Bleach or whatever fanboys insulting other people because they don't worship their manga...


I don't care if you like One Piece or not. I do care when it's dismissed as childish, cartoony, repetitive, having bad art etc etc when those who dismiss it as such haven't read a significant portion of the story(if at all).


----------



## Shisui (Jan 30, 2008)

KLoWn said:


> Oh lawlz hardly. We got atleast 20 pages left until this thread gets closed due to flaming



lol. No doubt. But I think it's the end for me at least


----------



## Fang (Jan 30, 2008)

As for being not dying in One Piece, well tell that to Kuro's doppleganger, Nami's mother and a few other people.


----------



## KLoWn (Jan 30, 2008)

TWF said:


> As for being not dying in One Piece, well tell that to Kuro's doppleganger, Nami's mother and a few other people.


I don't think people doubt that some characters actually die in OP, but the fact that there's a shitload of people that's been surviving things that should've killed 'em.


----------



## Fang (Jan 30, 2008)

Oda likes villains to be punished, not killed, for their crimes.


----------



## Taleran (Jan 30, 2008)

yeah I find that better than killing them off personally


Luffy shatters their dreams, beats em into a bloody pulp and leaves em there to ROT





> a shitload of people that's been surviving things that should've killed 'em.




welcome to the world of Magic Pirate Manga


----------



## KLoWn (Jan 30, 2008)

TWF said:


> Oda likes villains to be punished, not killed, for their crimes.


Fuck the villians, their cases are reasonable. 
Im talking about stuff like Pell, Vivi's bodyguard & all those people up in skypiea that got hit with one million volt lightningstrikes and still walked around like "wh0tever".


----------



## Parallax (Jan 30, 2008)

Oda stated in his dislike of killing off characters, so I don't really think that that is a legitimate complaint...


----------



## Furious George (Jan 30, 2008)

MdB said:


> Jesus, what is wrong with the way Oda expresses emotional stress of his characters? Because they show actually tears and snotty noses? People dont look pretty if they're crying (that's the harsh and crual reality). There's a reason why the emotional scenes in One Piece have more impact on me than the ones from Naruto.



Ladies and gentlemen, allow me to illustrate this man's point.  



This, my fellow manga readers, is Sakura crying. Notice how unrealistic this looks. Its almost like Kishimoto was trying to draw Sakura looking curious and added the tears just for the hell of it. Notice that there is no facial tension. This is not how a 15 year old girl cries when she hears that men are coming to kill one of her best friends (Naruto).  



This is a picture of Nami crying. Notice the pursed lips, the tops of her eyes drawn in a downward fashion, and the little bit of snot running down her nose. Even if the tears were edited out, you could tell just by the look on her face that she is in despair. This is the way a female cries. This is the way that a human being cries. Its scans like these that make me almost laugh when ppl try to claim that Kishi's art style is so much more realistic then Oda's.


----------



## fghj (Jan 30, 2008)

Dio Brando said:


> I don't care if you like One Piece or not. I do care when it's dismissed as childish, cartoony, repetitive, having bad art etc etc when those who dismiss it as such haven't read a significant portion of the story(if at all).


I read all of OP until the skeleton shown up...and last few chapters cause that Bear guy seemed very cool when I saw him. But in Naruto I can never tell what's going to happen next, whereas in OP the only surprise is when they change location and establish characters etc. Once the main villain of the arc is shown it's clear what will happen: Luffy will beat him with lots of screaming, Zoro will beat 2nd strongest guy with lots of being badass, Usopp will beat n-1 strongest with lots off goofiness and so on.



> Stupid faces? I'm sorry, but I'd say it's pretty realistic when you expres an emotion because you see your own damn grandson again (that you haven't seen for a damn long time). But of course, prefering those shallow and retarded botox faces (that Kishi likes to draws) is more logical....


To be honest I prefer freaky faces of OP to ridiculous seriousness of Bleach. But Naruto is between those 2 and I like that best (Hajime no Ippo is even better). But in OP they act stupid in supposendly dramatic situations (like here here ) and that destroys the atmosphere.


----------



## Parallax (Jan 30, 2008)

fghj said:


> I read all of OP until the skeleton shown up...and last few chapters cause that Bear guy seemed very cool when I saw him. But in Naruto I can never tell what's going to happen next, whereas in OP the only surprise is when they change location and establish characters etc. Once the main villain of the arc is shown it's clear what will happen: Luffy will beat him with lots of screaming, Zoro will beat 2nd strongest guy with lots of being badass, Usopp will beat n-1 strongest with lots off goofiness and so on.



Please don't confuse surprises with no direction.


----------



## Taleran (Jan 30, 2008)

fghj said:


> I read all of OP until the skeleton shown up...and last few chapters cause that Bear guy seemed very cool when I saw him. But in Naruto I can never tell what's going to happen next, whereas in OP the only surprise is when they change location and establish characters etc. Once the main villain of the arc is shown it's clear what will happen: Luffy will beat him with lots of screaming, Zoro will beat 2nd strongest guy with lots of being badass, Usopp will beat n-1 strongest with lots off goofiness and so on.




naruto will beat someone with rasengan, someone with sharigan will beat someone with it, shikamaru uses his Deus Ex Brain and beats someone, Kiba beats someone with his dog.............


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jan 30, 2008)

mootz said:


> the problem with this debate is that 90% of the people picking naruto have no clue what op really is
> 
> either the art turned them off or they didnt bother reading/watching it.
> 
> ...



I have and i am currently in the Foxxy arc.

So far its the best shit i ever with only FMA as better for me out what i watched/read.

Naruto part 1 was certainly excellent and close if not on par with OP on its best, but during part 2 it has suffered a major setback and it isnt even remotely interesting compared to part 1.

Its a shame as i once loved Naruto :/

What makes me like OP over Naruto as a whole is:

- Hilarious humor
- Very interesting characters
- Good story
- Alot of background info
- Lots of action

Not to mention the fighting is cool too and i feel that there is alot of feelings involved in OP.

Can sometimes be very touching to be honest .

I love OP for what it is as i loved Naruto part 1 and am delighted that there is alot more to go before its over 

My 2 cents


----------



## Amatsu (Jan 30, 2008)

fghj said:


> To be honest I prefer freaky faces of OP to ridiculous seriousness of Bleach. But Naruto is between those 2 and I like that best (Hajime no Ippo is even better). But in OP they act stupid in supposendly dramatic situations (like here here ) and that destroys the atmosphere.



Actually almost all Naruto characters share the same stoic and serious frown. Even Bleach characters have more expression of emotion than Naruto characters.


----------



## MdB (Jan 30, 2008)

fghj said:


> To be honest I prefer freaky faces of OP to ridiculous seriousness of Bleach. But Naruto is between those 2 and I like that best (Hajime no Ippo is even better). But in OP they act stupid in supposendly dramatic situations (like here here ) and that destroys the atmosphere.



Please no Bleach, that piece of shit shouldn't even be compared to Naruto, let alone One Piece.

I really can't see your point there. The scene wasn't dramatic, is was the beginning of a fight. You need to come up with something better than that. Especially when a certain manga depicts it even worse. Remember the fight with Kakuzu? Then you'll probably remember Naruto's useless fuck up after all the build up he got in the previous chapter. That was anti-climatic, not something as minor as Kuma flattering Luffy's crew.


----------



## tictactoc (Jan 30, 2008)

Cyckness said:


> Ladies and gentlemen, allow me to illustrate this man's point.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The hell you're talking about ?

here
here
here
And no shit comes out of my nose when I (rarely) cry 

EDITck that shit I'll just put the link >__<


----------



## Taleran (Jan 30, 2008)

images missing please try again


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Jan 30, 2008)

Naruto has simply lost a lot of its luster since part II began. A lot of the humor that was a trademark in Part I is now gone. Many of the Akatsuki villains and other characters in part II that had so much potential (Kakuzu, Hidan, Yugito anyone remember her) had such crappy resolutions. 

Also we're meant to believe that Naruto takes place in this massive world filled with all these hidden villages and yet we've only seen Suna, and Amegakure, big whup. The One Piece world is also massive and at least we actually get to see a lot of it.


----------



## Parallax (Jan 30, 2008)

tictactoc said:


> The hell you're talking about ?
> 
> here
> here
> ...



Those are great examples and show why part 1 was great.  Can you show any more scans from part 2?


----------



## Furious George (Jan 30, 2008)

tictactoc said:


> The hell you're talking about ?
> 
> Link removed
> Link removed
> ...



*Is reminded of how much better Naruto used to be before Part II* 

Part I levels the field of emoting considerably, but even then, trust me... 





We are talking two completely different levels of emo goodness here.


----------



## Gritz (Jan 30, 2008)

tictactoc said:


> The hell you're talking about ?
> 
> Link removed
> Link removed
> ...



The images don't work.  But I agree.  Crying in OP just looks nasty.  EWWW!!  You see Usopp when he was crying to come back?  That was gross!


----------



## Furious George (Jan 30, 2008)

Gritz said:


> Crying in OP just looks nasty.  EWWW!!  You see Usopp when he was crying to come back?  That was gross!



And crying in the real world looks sexy? 

Reality check folks... in situations that involve people you love dying or being brought close to death (which characters from both series are in very often), you don't cry... you ball. And when it comes to balling, I believe Oda captured the effect perfectly.


----------



## mystictrunks (Jan 30, 2008)

Gritz said:


> The images don't work.  But I agree.  Crying in OP just looks nasty.  EWWW!!  You see Usopp when he was crying to come back?  That was gross!



When you cry snot and such comes out. No one looks good crying.


----------



## tictactoc (Jan 30, 2008)

Dunno, even though I was really touched by the drama in OP, I can't honestly say that it stomps Naruto in this category. Overall OP had more drama moments that Naruto, since every main characters and some secondary characters had a sad flashback. However even if each flashbacks were quality, I genuinely didn't care about some, like Robin's flashback or Franky's flashback.
I also felt nothing when Going Merry "died" a second time, but it's because I was already sick about the whole drama surrounding it.
And there's less drama in Naruto right now, because Kishimoto is just making the plot advance right now. We already know the past of all the protagonists, so it's just *action ! action ! action !*


----------



## Halcyon Days (Jan 30, 2008)

I like Naruto over Op. When I started reading/watching it. It just wasn't interesting enough, srry. But hey after pirates of the carribean my pirate senses died so maybe thats why.


----------



## Gritz (Jan 30, 2008)

ZeroBelow said:


> I like Naruto over Op. When I started reading/watching it. It just wasn't interesting enough, srry. But hey after pirates of the carribean my pirate senses died so maybe thats why.



Don't get too upset.  That's pretty much what happened to me.  Now I'm trying to enjoy Part II in peace.


----------



## serger989 (Jan 30, 2008)

I always found Naruto to be the superior manga (in my opinion), in terms of story, development etc. I love One Piece no doubt, it's one of my favorite mangas but for an entirely different reason separated from characters and story... It's simply fun to read, it's funny and enjoyable. But the story never captivated me like Naruto has, nor the characters, not even close.

If someone were to ask me to compare One Piece to Naruto on equal grounds... It would be as hard for me as trying to compare Naruto to Berserk... It's just vastly inferior in many areas from my point of view. (Berserk obviously being the >)


----------



## Dio Brando (Jan 30, 2008)

tictactoc said:


> Dunno, even though I was really touched by the drama in OP, I can't honestly say that it stomps Naruto in this category. Overall OP had more drama moments that Naruto, since every main characters and some secondary characters had a sad flashback. However even if each flashbacks were quality, I genuinely didn't care about some, like Robin's flashback or Franky's flashback.
> I also felt nothing when Going Merry "died" a second time, but it's because I was already sick about the whole drama surrounding it.
> And there's less drama in Naruto right now, because Kishimoto is just making the plot advance right now. We already know the past of all the protagonists, so it's just *action ! action ! action !*


This here is an example of a respectable opinion, although I find it strange that you didn't care about Robin's flashback, which is one of the saddest of the series.



ZeroBelow said:


> I like Naruto over Op. When I started reading/watching it. It just wasn't interesting enough, srry. But hey after pirates of the carribean my pirate senses died so maybe thats why.



Again, if you haven't seen/read it then don't post in the topic. It defeats the purpose. Also OP pre dates Pirates of the Carribean, it's been going strong for 10 years now.


----------



## Halcyon Days (Jan 30, 2008)

Dio Brando said:


> This here is an example of a respectable opinion, although I find it strange that you didn't care about Robin's flashback, which is one of the saddest of the series.



If you read my post I clearly said I *read/watched* the series. I said the only reason I began was because of Pirates of the Carribean. I dont care how long its been out I was telling you thats the only reason I got into pirates in the first place, and maybe thats why I stopped as well.


----------



## serger989 (Jan 30, 2008)

I might add though, that the one thing about Naruto that lures me to it over One Piece (I still read both weekly and will never miss them, Bleach to, I like that for other reasons as well) is that Naruto's story feels more... Linear, like... We're always reading the same book, trying to get to the end, waiting to see what happens while One Piece seems like a bunch of different adventures all going towards a common goal, spread out on many books? That's a TERRIBLE analogy but I can't think of a way to put it in words... But I'm sure people will see what I'm trying to talk about.


----------



## Dio Brando (Jan 30, 2008)

ZeroBelow said:


> If you read my post I clearly said I *read/watched* the series. I said the only reason I began was because of Pirates of the Carribean. I dont care how long its been out I was telling you thats the only reason I got into pirates in the first place, and maybe thats why I stopped as well.



I misunderstood you then. 

You said "I like Naruto over OP. When I started reading/watching it." 

I'm not really sure what to make of that. Also where did you stop? plenty of people stop quite early on.


----------



## tictactoc (Jan 30, 2008)

Dio Brando said:


> This here is an example of a respectable opinion, although I find it strange that you didn't care about Robin's flashback, which is one of the saddest of the series.


Don't know why, it was well written, but it didn't do much for me :/ Maybe because I was seriously hyped for the upcoming fights...


----------



## Halcyon Days (Jan 30, 2008)

Dio Brando said:


> I misunderstood you then.
> 
> You said "I like Naruto over OP. When I started reading/watching it."
> 
> I'm not really sure what to make of that. Also where did you stop? plenty of people stop quite early on.



Sir Crocodile


----------



## Krauser-tan (Jan 30, 2008)

just a question, has anybody here knows why exactly did kishi change his art syle? cuz part 1 art >>>>>>>>>>>>>part 2 art IMO...


----------



## Buggy The Clown (Jan 30, 2008)

^ He just got lazy.


----------



## Shoddragon (Jan 30, 2008)

Rikudou said:


> As I heard the name One Piece quite often and many friends recommended it to me, I honestly tried to read it. I wanted to start from the beginning and read it all and I had high hopes. Many people said they preferred OP over Naruto, so I got really excited.
> Once I looked at the first couple of pages I noticed something that deterred enormously from reading it...:
> The art was* BUTT UGLY!*.
> 
> ...



I DO agree that the art at first to me was really shitty. It really was. and still, sometimes i cannot clearly see what's going on. but its more of an acquired taste. This is one of the problems that keeps many manga readers from getting into One Piece. the art is sometimes very unclear and hard to tell. I do like One Piece a bit better than Naruto, but I still am struggling to get used to the art. sometimes I ignore the things I cannot totally see in a chapter and read what other people say in the one piece battledome later or such.


----------



## Halcyon Days (Jan 30, 2008)

maybe he just got bored.


----------



## Amatsu (Jan 30, 2008)

Gritz said:


> Cut the sarcasm, smartass.
> 
> I'm a fan of Sasuke.  Not a Uchihatard.  DON'T get it twisted.
> 
> ...



I've seen people cry like they do in One Piece so it's not exactly over the top. Also Naruto would be a better series if either part 2 didn't exist or part 2 was written a heck of a lot better since post time jump that effectively ruined what was a good series.


----------



## Micku (Jan 30, 2008)

I never really got into One Piece. I tried, but I guess you could say that 4kids just killed off any curiousity of watching the dub a year or two ago. And I tried watching subs, but never got into it either. I'm trying to read the manga of One Piece, and it's ok. I heard that One Piece is a bit slow at the begnning, but picks up when they get to Nami's background story. I remembered watching parts of it in the anime. 

Anyway, IMO Naruto had a better start than One Piece. I find it much easier to get addicted to Naruto than One Piece in the beginning of the series. 

I admit that I don't really know anything besides One Piece other than Luffy is a rubber man (lol, he reminds me of Majin Buu), trying to become King of the Pirates. As most of the narutards said, Naruto seems more serious than One Piece. I agree, at least in the beginning. 

I may sound a bit noobish to people that are very far into One Piece, but I found the first little villian of the story to be a little bit of a joke compare to Naruto's villian, and I'm  not talking about Mizuki. Zabuza vs Buggy the Clown as a villian. It's probably a unfair comparison though. 

I'm reading One Piece right now, so my opinion will change.


----------



## Sengoku (Jan 30, 2008)

Zaoldyeck said:


> just a question, has anybody here knows why exactly did kishi change his art syle? cuz part 1 art >>>>>>>>>>>>>part 2 art IMO...



im assuming he changed for the bad?

i cant really tell the difference between naruto 1 and naruto 2 (shippudden) in terms of art etc.


----------



## tictactoc (Jan 30, 2008)

part 1 looks better than part 2 ? At the beginning of Naruto Shikamaru looked like a monkey :/... It was more sketchy though, so  the drawing was more dynamic IMO.


----------



## Amatsu (Jan 30, 2008)

> As I heard the name One Piece quite often and many friends recommended it to me, I honestly tried to read it. I wanted to start from the beginning and read it all and I had high hopes. Many people said they preferred OP over Naruto, so I got really excited.
> Once I looked at the first couple of pages I noticed something that deterred enormously from reading it...:
> The art was BUTT UGLY!.
> 
> ...



Well sorry that One Piece has a unique style instead of a bland, generic, and stereotypical anime style that makes every male character look like a fucking bishounen.

Honestly if that's what you like then power too you, but One Piece's art is far from butt ugly.


----------



## Buggy The Clown (Jan 30, 2008)

Yeah I still think Deidra is a girl, Haku also lol


----------



## Halcyon Days (Jan 30, 2008)

It's not OP's art is ugly its just complicated.


----------



## Amatsu (Jan 30, 2008)

Buggy The Clown said:


> Yeah I still think Deidra is a girl, Haku also lol



I don't see how good art is equal to how many bishounen are in the series. I'm guessing that's just some fangirl thing or something.


----------



## Maycara (Jan 30, 2008)

Why can't we all talk respectably...lol I am in enemy terrioty over there in the OP section...and still haven't flamed....people need to stop saying shit like "OP SUCKS CAUSE I SAID SO..." OR "NARUTO SUCKS FOR THE LOLS!"


----------



## Supa Swag (Jan 30, 2008)

tictactoc said:


> part 1 looks better than part 2 ? At the beginning of Naruto Shikamaru looked like a monkey :/... It was more sketchy though, so  the drawing was more dynamic IMO.




The beginning art was asstastic. I thought it was at it's best during the Sound 4 arc.


----------



## Gritz (Jan 30, 2008)

Aethos said:


> I've seen people cry like they do in One Piece so it's not exactly over the top. Also Naruto would be a better series if either part 2 didn't exist or part 2 was written a heck of a lot better since post time jump that effectively ruined what was a good series.



Written alot better AKA "how YOU want it written."  But if it does not abide by what you want written, then it's bad.  There ain't no real use in stewin about stuff you can't control.   
The story ain't over yet so shut yer yap.


----------



## Amatsu (Jan 30, 2008)

Minzara said:


> Why can't we all talk respectably...lol I am in enemy terrioty over there in the OP section...and still haven't flamed....people need to stop saying shit like "OP SUCKS CAUSE I SAID SO..." OR "NARUTO SUCKS FOR THE LOLS!"



I think most of the OP people here are going "NARUTO SUXS FOR TEH LULZ!" because of the "OP SUCKS BECAUS I SAID SO! NARUTO IS GREATEST AND SEXIEST MANGA EVER WRITTEN!!111" comments form the NaruTards.



Gritz said:


> Written alot better AKA "how YOU want it written."  But if it does not abide by what you want written, then it's bad.  There ain't no real use in stewin about stuff you can't control.
> The story ain't over yet so shut yer yap.



Actually I have no particular view of how I want Naruto to be written. I just want it written better. If there are things I don't like in there as long as they're written well I would accept them. It's just that Kishimoto pretty much failed at this.

And the story doesn't need to be over to know that the story is already shitty and that the ending will be even shittier.


----------



## Maycara (Jan 30, 2008)

You know...this isn't saying much for Naruto fans...while the other thread is friendly and respectiable..this one is a bunch of thrash talking >< and I am NARUTO FAN....sad day..


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jan 30, 2008)

Gritz said:


> The feeling is mutual.
> You don't like what I believe so you tell me to shut up.
> 
> Very liberal like.



You're telling people off for being dissatisfied with the way Naruto has been going, not only in this thread, others as well. They don't have to totally diss it, you jump on a person's back for even legit criticism of the story. I mean look at your posts in the thread addressed to Kishi's "haters".


----------



## Amatsu (Jan 30, 2008)

Gritz said:


> The feeling is mutual.
> You don't like what I believe so you tell me to shut up.
> 
> Very liberal like.



So we're required to agree with you? Get off your high horse.

I mean I don't care if people like Naruto more than One Piece. I don't even care if One Piece isn't their thing. But I hate it when people start bashing on One Piece for the damn stupidest reasons when they don't even know what the fuck they're talking about. It's pretty evident in this thread that most of the pro-Naruto people are exactly that.


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Jan 30, 2008)

If the One Piece dub had been treated with the respect that the Naruto dub was, I'd bet there would be a lot more mainstream One Piece fans here in the US.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jan 30, 2008)

StrawHat4Life said:


> If the One Piece dub had been treated with the respect that the Naruto dub was, I'd bet there would be a lot more mainstream One Piece fans here in the US.



Well, with the onslaught of horrendous Naruto fillers coming our way, I expect Naruto to take a hit in popularity, at least among dub watchers. The Funimation dub of OP may cause the series to gain some popularity, and shed the tarnished image 4kids gave it in time.


----------



## Amatsu (Jan 30, 2008)

nah more than likely most of them already know a lot about shippuden.


----------



## Micku (Jan 30, 2008)

Aethos said:


> So we're required to agree with you? Get off your high horse.
> 
> I mean I don't care if people like Naruto more than One Piece. I don't even care if One Piece isn't their thing. But I hate it when people start bashing on One Piece for the damn stupidest reasons when they don't even know what the fuck they're talking about. It's pretty evident in this thread that most of the pro-Naruto people are exactly that.




I'm petty sure that every anime has fans like that. One Piece has fans that are like Narutards, Bleach, DBZ, etc.


----------



## Gritz (Jan 30, 2008)

Aethos said:


> So we're required to agree with you? Get off your high horse.
> 
> I mean I don't care if people like Naruto more than One Piece. I don't even care if One Piece isn't their thing. But I hate it when people start bashing on One Piece for the damn stupidest reasons when they don't even know what the fuck they're talking about. It's pretty evident in this thread that most of the pro-Naruto people are exactly that.



I'm not on a goddamn high horse!  That asshole told me to shut up.  

And like you, I don't care if you like OP more than Naruto.  

Here is my final opinion.

I like Naruto better than OP because I happen to like ninjas better than pirates.  I like OP for different reasons than Naruto.  

I think that Part II has been fun to read.  I like the villians in Naruto more for their coolness factor.  

That is it.  Let's end this argument.  

Goodbye, my friend.


----------



## Amatsu (Jan 30, 2008)

Micku said:


> I'm petty sure that every anime has fans like that. One Piece has fans that are like Narutards, Bleach, DBZ, etc.



IYeah but if you haven't got anything good to say about One Piece then just say it's not your thing and move on. It's not that hard. A lot of the bashing and flaming would be cut down if more of the NaruTards did this.


----------



## Gritz (Jan 30, 2008)

Seto Kaiba said:


> You're telling people off for being dissatisfied with the way Naruto has been going, not only in this thread, others as well. They don't have to totally diss it, you jump on a person's back for even legit criticism of the story. I mean look at your posts in the thread addressed to Kishi's "haters".



What makes the critisism legit?  What they may like, I may dislike.  and vice versa.  You have a right to criticize.  However the Library has evolved far past mere literary criticism. Most of the complaints are inconsistent, illogical, and motivated more on the basis to spite other library members who hate the character they fanyboy over then anything else.

The new chapter is gonna be out soon, and it's gonna be met with the same pile of whiny, fanboyistic, crap.  It just gets annoying.  I actually enjoyed Naruto alot more when I wasn't a member here.  

I'm sorry, but all the whining and negativity all day just gets annoying.  

That's my two cents.  Take it or leave it, it's your choice.

But that's how I see things.


----------



## Blue (Jan 30, 2008)

> Yeah but if you haven't got anything good to say about One Piece then just say it's not your thing and move on. It's not that hard. A lot of the bashing and flaming would be cut down if more of the NaruTards did this.


​
You want to talk about BASHING? 
You want to talk about TARDS?

Why don't you go look in the OP section in any thread mentioning Naruto. Get the fuck off NARUTOFORUMS if you think OP fans have the right to bash Naruto and Naruto fans don't have the right to bash anything. Seriously.

Most Naruto fans couldn't care less about OP, but 90% of OP fans get it in their little meat-brains to bash Naruto, because they think it makes them cool to like something besides Naruto on Narutoforums. Go to Arlong Park, see who hates Naruto there. Not many people. Because there isn't this retarded counter-culture of Naruto hate.


----------



## Amatsu (Jan 30, 2008)

Blue said:


> ​
> You want to talk about BASHING?
> You want to talk about TARDS?
> 
> ...



LAWL it's Blue stirring up some shit. :rofl

I'm not saying that One Piece fans aren't at fault either, but I feel that Naruto fans tend to be the one's who instigate things more often than the One Piece fans. Just my opinion though.


----------



## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 30, 2008)

Blue said:


> ​
> You want to talk about BASHING?
> You want to talk about TARDS?
> 
> ...



*It works on both sides, trust me. It's not like either side is completely guilty or innocent. 

And last I remembered, AP wasn't exactly the friendliest site towards Naruto. *


----------



## Micku (Jan 30, 2008)

Aethos said:


> IYeah but if you haven't got anything good to say about One Piece then just say it's not your thing and move on. It's not that hard. A lot of the bashing and flaming would be cut down if more of the NaruTards did this.



Yeah, in a way I agree. 

IMO, I want someone to bash One Piece or Naruto in a reasonable way for a good debate. I think it's fun to agure like that. I think I know what you mean about bashing One Piece though. "lol, 1piece suxs," type of bashing right? 

I didn't read the entire thread, but I know ppl here said something bad about One Piece without giving a logical explanation. They probably don't know anything about One Piece, like me, but bash it as if they know it.


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Jan 30, 2008)

There hardly isn't any bashing going on in the OP vs Naruto thread over in the One Piece area. For whatever thats worth.


----------



## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 30, 2008)

*Naruto fans tend to bash OP without much of a reason. 

OP fans tend to not accept Naruto fans opinions. *


----------



## Maycara (Jan 30, 2008)

StrawHat4Life said:


> There hardly isn't any bashing going on in the OP vs Naruto thread over in the One Piece area. For whatever thats worth.



Becauses its one Naruto fan vs all the OP fans  and that Naruto fan is me


----------



## Amatsu (Jan 30, 2008)

Yeah I'm not saying One Piece fans aren't just as wrong for bashing Naruto, but when you're minding your own business in the One Piece section just for some NaruTard to come in and start talking about why they think "One Piece is teh sux compared to Naruto" Or heck even when you just say you like One Piece and they start doing that you kinda seem to believe that it's the NaruTards fault for being such ignorant instigators.

I'm well aware that One Piece fans can be assholes too. Especially towards Naruto fans. But then again the only place I've seen that is on Arlong Park and even then it's only the people in the Naruto discussion thread that bash on Naruto.


----------



## Micku (Jan 30, 2008)

Minzara said:


> Becauses its one Naruto fan vs all the OP fans  and that Naruto fan is me



Naruto fans must stick together dettobayo!


----------



## Blue (Jan 30, 2008)

Do you guys seriously think I have a personal vendetta against One Piece?

Polygon, who came to Arlong Park and helped beat down Phenomonol and their entire staff for you?  Who do you guys think made the One Piece section?

What I have a vendetta against is people who think it's fun to hate Naruto when they're surrounded by people who think Naruto is the best thing ever. It's just elitist asshat behavior. And a majority of OP fans on NF do just that.

Actually... I don't know what I'm doing here. I think you guys have the right to bash the shit out of Naruto inside the OP section. The question is: What are you guys doing _here_?


----------



## Amatsu (Jan 30, 2008)

Micku said:


> Yeah, in a way I agree.
> 
> IMO, I want someone to bash One Piece or Naruto in a reasonable way for a good debate. I think it's fun to agure like that. I think I know what you mean about bashing One Piece though. "lol, 1piece suxs," type of bashing right?
> 
> I didn't read the entire thread, but I know ppl here said something bad about One Piece without giving a logical explanation. They probably don't know anything about One Piece, like me, but bash it as if they know it.



Yeah pretty much. I mean the kind of bashing where you can instantly tell that they have never read One Piece. Bashing it on the grounds of it being too kiddy, the art being too weird, the plot and characters suck when they know jack shit about both, etc. That kind of thing. I mean if there were general good reasons instead of "LAWLZ I hate One Piece because rubberman is stupid, art is butt ugly, and story is too bland, kiddy, and unoriginal. . Naruto is cooler because the characters angst and that gives them more depth and the story is dark cause it has demons and death in it." I'm sure we'd have some decent discussion then.

Heck someone in this thread stated that all of One Piece is filler. I mean what the fuck? Not to mention those who just dumb down One Piece's plot to "They're just looking for treasure. One Piece's plot is lame" when there's more to the plot than just finding God D. Roger's treasure.


----------



## Vandal Savage (Jan 30, 2008)

Holy crap, for a minute I thought this was the thread I started in the other section. 

I like OP more than Naruto and I'll go find my other post and see if I want to add anything to it since this is the Library.


----------



## narutofangd (Jan 30, 2008)

Aethos said:


> I mean what the fuck? Not to mention those who just dumb down One Piece's plot to "They're just looking for treasure. One Piece's plot is lame" when there's more to the plot than just finding God D. Roger's treasure.



Wait there more too the PLot than Finding OP


----------



## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 30, 2008)

Blue said:


> Do you guys seriously think I have a personal vendetta against One Piece?
> 
> Polygon, who came to Arlong Park and helped beat down Phenomonol and their entire staff for you?  Who do you guys think made the One Piece section?


*
Lol Blue, I know you have nothing against OP. You're not retarded, I know that much. I respect the fact that you don't like it. *



> What I have a vendetta against is people who think it's fun to hate Naruto when they're surrounded by people who think Naruto is the best thing ever. It's just elitist asshat behavior. And a majority of OP fans on NF do just that.


*
It is elitist and just plain stupid. But honestly it works the other way as well. I've heard the stupidest things from both sides. *


> Actually... I don't know what I'm doing here. I think you guys have the right to bash the shit out of Naruto inside the OP section. The question is: What are you guys doing _here_



*The original thread is in the OP section. some people thought it'd be biased because it's in the OP section and wouldn't get a good argument for Naruto. so someone made a thread here to counter act that I guess. 
would be better to make one thread in floor 2 or something. *


----------



## AkuOni (Jan 30, 2008)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> *Naruto fans tend to bash OP without much of a reason.
> 
> OP fans tend to not accept Naruto fans opinions. *


UM? BULLSHIT?


----------



## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 30, 2008)

AkuOni said:


> UM? BULLSHIT?



*How so? *


----------



## Morcombe (Jan 30, 2008)

narutofangd said:


> Wait there more too the PLot than Finding OP



The is more than just one plot, all of teh straw hat crews dreams are plots, the will of D is a plot, the mysteriouus wepaons are a plot, the void century is a plot.  so there is defo more than one plot


----------



## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 30, 2008)

Morcombe said:


> The is more than just one plot, all of teh straw hat crews dreams are plots, the will of D is a plot, the mysteriouus wepaons are a plot, the void century is a plot.  so there is defo more than one plot



*A goal =/= plot. there's really one one plot in a story, all those other things you mentioned join to form the plot. *


----------



## shit (Jan 30, 2008)

Reposting what I said in the OP section thread.  If anyone has a problem with it, be warned that I have many other posts over there to back this up. 

"Breaking it down by catagory here.

Emotional Impact: winner One Piece
Fight Factor: winner Naruto
Comedy Consensus: winner One Piece
Drama Decision: winner Naruto
Anime Analysis: winner Naruto
Bad Guy Grade: winner One Piece
Protagonist Rating: winner Naruto

We have our winner. *Naruto.* Maybe next year, OP."


----------



## Amatsu (Jan 30, 2008)

narutofangd said:


> Wait there more too the PLot than Finding OP



There's far more. The true history, the corruption of the world government, Dragon's revolution, the whole ordeal with Blackbeard, etc.


----------



## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 30, 2008)

*People who don't like OP art, can you tell me why? I honestly never had any problems with it. *


----------



## Morcombe (Jan 30, 2008)

juggalojaf said:


> Reposting what I said in the OP section thread.  If anyone has a problem with it, be warned that I have many other posts over there to back this up.
> 
> "Breaking it down by catagory here.
> 
> ...






you think naruto is a better hero than Luffy no way XD
Luffy helps people even if he's only known them for 2secs, Naruto hates random people for no reason like sasuke at the beginning.  Luffy only hates those who hurt his nakam.  so luffy would be the better role model.

One Piece wins in fights as well the recent pein vs. jiraiya fight was greaty but it dragged on to long where as the battles in one piece are short and sweet. the longest fight is Luffy vs. lucci and even though it looks liek it drags on forever the actual battle svenes shown are only in 10 chapters due to the zoro 7 sanji battles and rescuing robin in between


----------



## Amatsu (Jan 30, 2008)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> *People who don't like OP art, can you tell me why? I honestly never had any problems with it. *



Isn't it hated because the art isn't as pretty as Naruto and Bleach?

Honestly I'd hate it if everyone in One Piece looked like a bishounen...


----------



## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 30, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Isn't it hated because the art isn't as pretty as Naruto and Bleach?
> 
> Honestly I'd hate it if everyone in One Piece looked like a bishounen...



*I love OP art because of it's versality. It can go from goofy to serious in an instant, and even combine the two. 
*


----------



## shit (Jan 30, 2008)

Morcombe said:


> you think naruto is a better hero than Luffy no way XD
> Luffy helps people even if he's only known them for 2secs, Naruto hates random people for no reason like sasuke at the beginning.  Luffy only hates those who hurt his nakam.  so luffy would be the better role model.



I'm counting all the good guys; basically the rookie 12 vs. the Strawhats.  I'd rather see what the rookie 12 is getting up to in their lives, personally.  Luffy brings up his team way more than Naruto brings up his (ESPECIALLY recently), but the whole outshines the other.  Get me?

EDIT: lol.  You editted your post on me.  Naruto gets the fight nod because the battles look cooler.  You know exactly what moves everyone's going to use in One Piece before they use them.  The Kyuubi vs. Orochimaru fight alone tips the scales off the table in Naruto's favor.  Then you got the Gaara and Deidara fight, the Sasori fight, not to mention part 1.  No contest.


----------



## Buggy The Clown (Jan 30, 2008)

Naruto manga chapters has very little content lately all I see is a bunch of overdrawn characters filling up paper so you don't get much dialog or plot. Oda seems to squish a lot of dialog and more story in a chapter than Kishi. I could read through a  of Naruto a lot faster than I could a One Piece chapter.


----------



## Blue (Jan 30, 2008)

I hate it because it sucks. o_O Period, end, fullstop.

Any art style has to be able to express a range of emotion, or you can't draw a manga. OP can, and so can Naruto and Bleach and whatever else. Basically, I'm a better artist than Oda, and I'm not even boasting.


----------



## Amatsu (Jan 30, 2008)

I just thought the art of One Piece was a bit too wacky at first with the mouths seeming so unproportional and all, but when I started seriously reading the series I concentrated more on the story and well... I love the art of One Piece now. It just feels natural and it would be weird to see One Piece drawn any other way.


----------



## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 30, 2008)

*Well, Oda has improved greatly in his art since the start.*


----------



## Maycara (Jan 30, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Isn't it hated because the art isn't as pretty as Naruto and Bleach?
> 
> Honestly I'd hate it if everyone in One Piece looked like a bishounen...



Naw i hate cause of designs like Buggy, Arlong, Mr.3 ...Mr. 2 .... Mr.1 lol. I just dont like the designs sometime..


----------



## Amatsu (Jan 30, 2008)

How can you hate Mr 2? You're dissin' on the okama way. 

and come on Buggy is a badass pirate clown. I think he's drawn really well. Actually I can't think of a character design in One Piece I don't like.


----------



## Blue (Jan 30, 2008)

Oh, and the designs. Yes.

I actually didn't mind Buggy. He looked like a stupid excuse for a serious villian, but he didn't put me off. But then there's the dude who fought with boogers. And Gecko Moria. And everyone from the Davy Back Fight. And Enel's fucking retarded goons. 
And USOPP.
FUCK USOPP.

F U C K U S O P P
A R G G G G G G G


----------



## Maycara (Jan 30, 2008)

Aethos said:


> How can you hate Mr 2? You're dissin' on the okama way.
> 
> and come on Buggy is a badass pirate clown. I think he's drawn really well. Actually I can't think of a character design in One Piece I don't like.



Meh. I like Buddy character hate is design...

Mr.2 can go suck...whatever he sucks...which its pretty obvisous what he sucks....


----------



## Buggy The Clown (Jan 30, 2008)

People like different things I loved Buggy's character design because I've never seen anything like that before and his personality fitted his look.


----------



## Gritz (Jan 30, 2008)

Tards on both sides suck. 

I came from SaveOnePiece.  Only about TWO/THREE people actually really liked Naruto.  The others just bashed it to high hell.

The Narutards aren't much better.


----------



## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 30, 2008)

*Most, if not all, of the people with "stupid" designs were supposed to look dumb. 

Personally, I likes every design thus far. Not all of them are 100% badass and I like that. 
*


----------



## Maycara (Jan 30, 2008)

Blue said:


> And USOPP.
> FUCK USOPP.
> 
> F U C K U S O P P
> A R G G G G G G G



Kaku sported the long nose better


----------



## Micku (Jan 30, 2008)

Morcombe said:


> you think naruto is a better hero than Luffy no way XD
> Luffy helps people even if he's only known them for 2secs, Naruto hates random people for no reason like sasuke at the beginning.  Luffy only hates those who hurt his nakam.  so luffy would be the better role model.



*shrugs*

Role Model vs A character that you could relate to?

Same thing as Marvel vs DC?

You could probably agure which character is more interesting, Naruto or Luffy. But I think it's more of a opinion. 

There was a topic one time on who's the better main character, Naruto or Goku. I said Naruto because he relates more and Goku is more of a role model. I end up aguring my point...in a way lossing at points on being the underdog I guess, but being the better main character is more of opinion. You could agure about who is more good or a better hero, but a better main character vary on the people.


----------



## Buggy The Clown (Jan 30, 2008)

I agree about Moria he was a total failure, the booger guy was pretty much a throw away character imo sort of like Bellamy just to throw some action in a arc that didn't have any.


----------



## Ifurita's Fan (Jan 30, 2008)

AkuOni.. on topic please. Full Metal Alchemist is not at issue.

That said... If one of them were to be under threat of cancellation.. and I were the deciding factor to choose between Naruto or One Piece. I'd choose to have One Piece continue. 

The art is certainly not your typical run of the mill Manga... that's for sure... but like another poster pointed out, One Piece packs a hell of a lot more action and happenings into a chapter than Naruto does. 

Naruto has all sorts of "..." pages where the people involve just look at each other. You never find that in One Piece. No space is wasted... you get more bang for your page buck... and the plot is deeper at the same time. 

So there ya go. 

*I love my onion-tan avi.*


----------



## Morcombe (Jan 30, 2008)

is there really any point in this thread cause it's never going to end.  point is that they are both great mangas with great quality.


----------



## Amatsu (Jan 30, 2008)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> *Most, if not all, of the people with "stupid" designs were supposed to look dumb.
> 
> Personally, I likes every design thus far. Not all of them are 100% badass and I like that.
> *



Indeed.

Heck just look at Sasuke. He's a bishounen, he make ridiculously gay poses to make fangirls cream their panties. That's his character design.


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Jan 30, 2008)

Morcombe said:


> is there really any point in this thread cause it's never going to end.  point is that they are both great mangas with great quality.



Damn straight!!!

Both series are excellent reads, though I still prefer One Piece.


----------



## shit (Jan 30, 2008)

The way they drag Usopp around by the nose for a cheap chuckle; yeah, that's hella stupid.  I like Usopp's design most times though because he's so ugly it really helps him pull off the underdog shtik.  Mr. 2 was a nasty tranny, but the Okama joke was hillarious (even though it's lost in trans like a lot of OP humor), and at least he didn't shave his legs...

Buggy's the bomb though.  Also, he'll kill you if you make fun of his nose.


----------



## AkuOni (Jan 30, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Indeed.
> 
> Heck just look at Sasuke. He's a bishounen, he make ridiculously gay poses to make fangirls cream their panties. That's his character design.


Fucking ignorant, Edward and Alphonse are Bishi's to and they look tens time hotter than Sasuke or Deidara. Since when does a characters apperance matter?


----------



## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 30, 2008)

AkuOni said:


> Fucking ignorant, Edward and Alphonse are Bishi's to and they look tens time hotter than Sasuke or Deidara. Since when does a characters apperance matter?



*Since when does a characters appearance NOT matter? *


----------



## Buggy The Clown (Jan 30, 2008)

^^ LOL, thats the greatest response, the appearance always matters haven't you been reading peoples comments about the designs of the character and so on, you just keep spitting out random shit.


----------



## AkuOni (Jan 30, 2008)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> *Since when does a characters appearance NOT matter? *


Thats not the point, I merely stating that Sasuke despite his attractive design doesn't mean he's mere fap material, he's more than that.


----------



## Maycara (Jan 30, 2008)

Not sounding gay or anything, but Haku is hot!!! Too bad its a boy....


----------



## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 30, 2008)

AkuOni said:


> Thats not the point, I merely stating that Sasuke despite his attractive design doesn't mean he's mere fap material, he's more than that.


*
No you weren't, you were talking about how hot characters were. You mentioned nothing about substance. *


----------



## Mullet_Power (Jan 30, 2008)

AkuOni said:


> Thats not the point, I merely stating that Sasuke despite his attractive design doesn't mean he's mere fap material, he's more than that.


Yeah along with his Bishounen design he is a "loner with a dark past that plays hard to get" I'm sorry but what about him is more than being sex appeal to fangirls?


----------



## Sengoku (Jan 30, 2008)

Ifurita's Fan said:


> AkuOni.. on topic please. Full Metal Alchemist is not at issue.
> 
> That said... If one of them were to be under threat of cancellation.. and I were the deciding factor to choose between Naruto or One Piece. I'd choose to have One Piece continue.
> 
> ...



^ dont jinx it! i dont want both naruto and one piece to get cancelled ! 

anyway, i wonder how the bleach fans would react if the topic was about One Piece vs Naruto vs Bleach 

at least it wouldnt be a 1v1 fight...

oh and blue, sogeking owns 
love HIM! NOW!


----------



## Supa Swag (Jan 30, 2008)

Sengoku said:


> anyway, i wonder how the bleach fans would react if the topic was about One Piece vs Naruto vs Bleach




If there's one thing most people can generally agree on is that compared to OP and Naruto (hell in general), Bleach has become an absolute piece of monkey shit since they've gone to Hueco Mundo. I feel sorry for Mayuri and Kenpachi being wasted on this shit. Only Inuyashit has shown a higher level fail.


----------



## Maycara (Jan 30, 2008)

Kitty Litter said:


> If there's one thing most people can generally agree on is that compared to OP and Naruto (hell in general), Bleach has become an absolute piece of monkey shit since they've gone to Hueco Mundo. I feel sorry for Mayuri and Kenpachi being wasted on this shit. Only Inuyashit has shown a higher level fail.



kenpachi is bleach...he is the only reason i keep it around lol


----------



## milhaus007 (Jan 30, 2008)

I never caught on to One Piece. Saw a couple episodes and wasn't impressed with the goofy drawings. I'm sure it has a good story but the drawings are horrible.


----------



## Sengoku (Jan 30, 2008)

^ that is what i thought first but i told myself to not judge the series by its art and the reward was... well.. rewarding


----------



## Aldric (Jan 30, 2008)

Blue said:
			
		

> Go to Arlong Park, see who hates Naruto there. Not many people.



...

The entire Naruto thread (which is 6000 posts + long and the third one of its kind) is dedicated to bashing Naruto in rather hilarious ways.


----------



## milhaus007 (Jan 30, 2008)

Maybe I'll give OP a try again in the future.


----------



## competitionbros (Jan 30, 2008)

If people could get past OP's "goofy" drawing style, they'd be able to see it's very well written and exciting.


----------



## Fang (Jan 30, 2008)

I like the fact that not every single battle is fought on a pirate ship like 95% of the fights in Naruto have forests in the background.


----------



## Shishi-O (Jan 31, 2008)

Agmaster said:


> As one of the few travelers of more than one subforum here, I recently discovered that a debate had begun in the OP section.  The classic tale of pirates and ninjas.  But it was bias.  So painfully bias.  In the interest of fairness, I've decided to present this same question here.  The reason this is in library is because going by manga will give people the most content to discuss the boons and banes of these series.
> 
> And so I quote Jetstorm, because taking credit for this is ...unjust.
> 
> ...


op fights. naruto fights

op story epic

op wow factor( that sense of wonder/ whats gonna happen next/ the whole pirate thing )

the badass factor in naruto is about the lvl of sanji in OP, but not near the lvl of zorro or luffy, c'mon, luffy is like goku...that ain't fair.

op is not even close to being done, people are already counting the days and predicting the end of the naruto manga/ kishi wants to finish already, so he can make mario, the greatest mafia manga ever, lol

the mangaka for op loves it so much he does posters whenever possible

they keep neutering naruto, luffy keeps getting more and more badass( luffy would whoop naruto )


----------



## Shishi-O (Jan 31, 2008)

competitionbros said:


> If people could get past OP's "goofy" drawing style, they'd be able to see it's very well written and exciting.


y'mean like toryama's goofy drawing style ^^


----------



## nanni (Jan 31, 2008)

i'm op fan
but I'm on NF
haha


----------



## Agmaster (Jan 31, 2008)

tictactoc said:


> The hell you're talking about ?
> 
> Ch172,p.14
> Ch172,p.14
> ...



Part 1 Naruto is not part 2 Naruto.  I think this is really OP vs P2 Naruto.  As I believe P2 is larger than part 1 and thus more relevant.


----------



## Micku (Jan 31, 2008)

Agmaster said:


> Part 1 Naruto is not part 2 Naruto.  I think this is really OP vs P2 Naruto.  As I believe P2 is larger than part 1 and thus more relevant.



I thought this was OP vs Naruto (overall).


----------



## Dark World Lightning (Jan 31, 2008)

One Piece fights are interesting just because they're so freaking bizarre for no real reason.

One guy attacks with noodles from their nose. Another guy attacks you using boogers. Another dude's power is GIRAFFE POWER.

Naruto sometimes approaches One Piece with how crazy some powers can get sometimes, but the only people who really approach this are Jiraiya, Pein, and Orochimaru. Especially Orochimaru.


----------



## Agmaster (Jan 31, 2008)

Micku said:


> I thought this was OP vs Naruto (overall).



Yeh, but when counting something overall do you go by spikes or consistency?  I'll totally agree that Naruto started out fantastic and leagues ahead of OP, which seemed like a dinky little one year max comic.  Kid shows motivation, flash forward to leaving home, journey starts get a few allies, journey ends.   But as the race went on, OP just kind of picked up the pace (quality wise) and Naruto lagged off.  By the time Naruto got past Kakashi Gaiden (specifically the Sasori fight arc) it was pretty much a joke.  The main character didn't grow up, the side characters which so much work was put into were tossed aside like dirty food, and the villians just 'gave up' both figuratively and literally in Sasori's case.

Whereas OP while not perfect (oh god skypiea makes me cringe still) managed to integrate humor and drama,have villians that while I know would lose  still gave their all (even surprised me a couple of times when Lucci first appeared) as well as having anime fillers (even though I don't watch them) taht don't make fans gnash their teeth in pain.

All in all, OP took the slow and steady approach while naruto sprinted.  It even shows in recent chapters.  The Itachi cackling chapter was pretty good, as was the beginning of PvJiraiya.  But all too often quality spikes are not followed up on in any interesting manner.



Blue said:


> Oh, and the designs. Yes.
> 
> I actually didn't mind Buggy. He looked like a stupid excuse for a serious villian, but he didn't put me off. But then there's the dude who fought with boogers. And Gecko Moria. And everyone from the Davy Back Fight. And Enel's fucking retarded goons.
> And USOPP.
> ...



You call out OP fans for being elitist then say your art is better than a world famous artist's?  While 'not boasting'?  Seriously?  That's flame baiting, lest I am mistaken.


----------



## Matariki (Jan 31, 2008)

OP is formulaic, dull, and the characters are one-dimensional.


----------



## Aldric (Jan 31, 2008)

GRRRR 

REVENGE 

REVENGE REVENGE REVENGE

IMMA GET MAH REVENGE

One dimensional you said?


----------



## Teach (Jan 31, 2008)

Seiko said:


> OP is formulaic, dull, and the characters are one-dimensional.



Wow no basis on that, I am amazed of you guys. 

Exactly what Aethos said. Part 1 was really good in my opinion. Naruto's GARness was cool. Now it basically Naruto screaming Saucegay everytime we see him. Asuma's death was to improve Shikamaru the side character... Really part 2 is a disappointment aside from Pain and few other Akatsuki's, Itachi was cool until 386. And they screwed Orochimaru too what a waste of character.


----------



## krusnik01 (Jan 31, 2008)

agree naruto is better


----------



## Supa Swag (Jan 31, 2008)

krusnik01 said:


> agree naruto is better



...agree with who?


----------



## Ryan (Jan 31, 2008)

OP is for kiddies, you don't even have to think how [..] suddenly knows a new move, he just do it and he became stronger hahaha.

Seriously though, I like the humor and the drama in OP but that's it. I wouldn't care if Oda decided not to complete his manga or something like that; the story is very lame (_for my taste_).

Though am still gonna watch it, as I find it really amusing most of the time.


----------



## tictactoc (Jan 31, 2008)

Agmaster said:


> Yeh, but when counting something overall do you go by spikes or consistency?  I'll totally agree that Naruto started out fantastic and leagues ahead of OP, which seemed like a dinky little one year max comic.  Kid shows motivation, flash forward to leaving home, journey starts get a few allies, journey ends.   But as the race went on, OP just kind of picked up the pace (quality wise) and Naruto lagged off.  By the time Naruto got past Kakashi Gaiden (specifically the Sasori fight arc) it was pretty much a joke.  The main character didn't grow up, the side characters which so much work was put into were tossed aside like dirty food, and the villians just 'gave up' both figuratively and literally in Sasori's case.
> 
> Whereas OP while not perfect (oh god skypiea makes me cringe still) managed to integrate humor and drama,have villians that while I know would lose  still gave their all (even surprised me a couple of times when Lucci first appeared) as well as having anime fillers (even though I don't watch them) taht don't make fans gnash their teeth in pain.
> 
> All in all, OP took the slow and steady approach while naruto sprinted.  It even shows in recent chapters.  The Itachi cackling chapter was pretty good, as was the beginning of PvJiraiya.  But all too often quality spikes are not followed up on in any interesting manner.



So 238 chapters are not "much" for you ? Part 1 is longer than Part 2 anyway, so your point is void.


----------



## Dark Evangel (Jan 31, 2008)

I prefer anime One Piece but I guess I have to choose Naruto when it comes to manga.


----------



## MdB (Jan 31, 2008)

Seiko said:


> OP is formulaic, dull, and the characters are one-dimensional.



Having a hard-on for Sasuke and yet saying these things about One Piece shows how hypocritic you are. I'll guess focusing on a one-dimensional flat and static Shounen cliche incarnate is the way to go, AMIRITE...?


----------



## AkuOni (Jan 31, 2008)

MdB said:


> Having a hard-on for Sasuke and yet saying these things about One Piece shows how hypocritic you are. I'll guess focusing on a one-dimensional flat and static Shounen cliche incarnate is the way to go, AMIRITE...?


What pray tell, is one dimensional, flat and static about Sasuke Uchiha, we haven't even begun his character development yet, and he has a personality outside of brood and revenge. He also's confident, intelligent, level headed, and daring. There four dimensions, and cliche? One Piece is cliche incarnate, is DBZ gone Disney and Spamco.


----------



## Sengoku (Jan 31, 2008)

AkuOni said:


> What pray tell, is one dimensional, flat and static about Sasuke Uchiha, we haven't even begun his character development yet, and he has a personality outside of brood and revenge. He also's confident, intelligent, level headed, and daring. There four dimensions, and cliche? One Piece is cliche incarnate, is DBZ gone Disney and Spamco.




huh? how do you know if one piece is cliche if you have never seen/read one piece?


----------



## AkuOni (Jan 31, 2008)

Sengoku said:


> huh? how do you know if one piece is cliche if you have never seen/read one piece?


I've read One Piece and Luffy looks just like Goku, and has the most predictible attacks ever.


----------



## Sasuke_Bateman (Jan 31, 2008)

One Piece anime is 100000x better than Naruto. Never seen the manga before though


----------



## Ark 2.0 (Jan 31, 2008)

AkuOni said:


> I've read One Piece and Luffy looks just like Goku, and has the most predictible attacks ever.



argh...ya, and rasengan is extrimely original ( note the sarcasm)...argh


----------



## MdB (Jan 31, 2008)

AkuOni said:


> What pray tell, is one dimensional, flat and static about Sasuke Uchiha, we haven't even begun his character development yet, and he has a personality outside of brood and revenge. He also's confident, intelligent, level headed, and daring. There four dimensions, and cliche? One Piece is cliche incarnate, is DBZ gone Disney and Spamco.



His development changed from being a retarded emo shit to a fucking robot. Groundbreaking. And the only important thing in hit little vendetta of extreme faggotry is getting revenge on the ones who kiled his backstabbing clan. He lacks everything that should make him dynamic and a very round character. His characterization is one-dimensional, just like your taste in media mediums. But if the stuff that Aldric said about you is true (being a certain moron and all), I can see why you said that ignorent and delusional shit about One Piece.


----------



## Aldric (Jan 31, 2008)

AkuOni said:


> I've read One Piece and Luffy looks just like Goku, and has the most predictible attacks ever.



At least Luffy has a couple of recognizable features in his design, like the Strawhat, the huge round eyes or the scar.

Contrary to Sauce who just looks like every over dark haired pasty pretty boys ever churned out by lazy manga authors.


----------



## Matariki (Jan 31, 2008)

Aldric said:


> At least Luffy has a couple of recognizable features in his design, like the Strawhat, the huge round eyes or the scar.
> 
> Contrary to Sauce who just looks like every over dark haired pasty pretty boys ever churned out by lazy manga authors.



I'd say Sasuke's duck hair is uncommon.


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Jan 31, 2008)

Seiko said:


> Part 2 Naruto is formulaic, dull, and the characters are one-dimensional.



Fixed it for you.


----------



## AkuOni (Jan 31, 2008)

MdB said:


> His development changed from being a retarded emo shit to a fucking robot. Groundbreaking. And the only important thing in hit little vendetta of extreme faggotry is getting revenge on the ones who kiled his backstabbing clan. He lacks everything that should make him dynamic and a very round character. His characterization is one-dimensional, just like your taste in media mediums. But if the stuff that Aldric said about you is true (being a certain moron and all), I can see why you said that ignorent and delusional shit about One Piece.


Retarded emo shit is something you are you ignorant, predjudiced, jackass. And how much did you read of the Naruto manga to make that claim about Sasuke's character? None I bet. No one can be that stupid and blunt about a character they hate. Sasuke has grown from a happy boy from his family, to a conflicted talented prodigy with some cocky nature to him, to a more serious, determined, head strong leader with a sense of duty and a vendetta that effects his entire purpose as the last Uchiha and his plan of restoring the Uchiha clan once more. He's noble and focused on his goals and will take on in danger just to complete it, his character is so dynamic and so well rounded, it effects the main character overall and builds a persistant determination in Naruto to become stronger. It effects the plot as well since he has to avenge not only one but two Uchiha masters that have the abilty to control the Plot core element, Kyuubi. Also Madara is the final villain. Your ignorance knows no boundries, if you call Naruto a mediorce media, while One Piece isnt any better.

It's a plaguristic rip off of DBZ and it's so simple, one diminsional, and inconsitant that it makes Hamtaro more complex. Seriously, at least Sasuke is human, Luffy and the others are fantasy crap characters with a bland build up and un realistic development that gives the characters no depth at all. It's like looking at a DBZ clone with disney elements. Luffy himself is one deminsional, static, annoying lame, and overpowered. A Default with no human qualities but Angry and Happy. Full of PIS, he never struggles and always manages to beat bad guys without showing humanity in the process. How can you relate to him, you can't. he sucks so ad that he has to be filled with far more interesting characters other than him to allow him to be a toleratable character to endure. Plus same formula each arc, and the Straw Hats always manage to pull Plot Plot Fruit out of their asses when they're about pwned to death.

Seriously, double standards coming from you dude. Major double standards.


----------



## Ark 2.0 (Jan 31, 2008)

argh....part 1 was enjoyable i have ot admite, but part 2 lost me when all that naruto does is look for sasuke and sasuke plots...argh

argh...one piece has been a wild bandwaggon of awosome since day 1...argh


----------



## AkuOni (Jan 31, 2008)

Part 2 was awesome when Sasuke came back.


----------



## Aldric (Jan 31, 2008)

Seiko said:


> I'd say Sasuke's duck hair is uncommon.



Yeah, spiky hair is just a trait shared by 99% of all manga characters ever conceived. Such an audacious character design choice from Kishimoto.


----------



## Ark 2.0 (Jan 31, 2008)

AkuOni said:


> Part 2 was awesome when Sasuke came back.



argh...and surprisingly went to kill his brother, again...argh

argh...and about your thread that characters have no divelopment shall we talk about asuma....argh


----------



## AkuOni (Jan 31, 2008)

When Sasuke kills Itachi, I'll be the first to bring it up.


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Jan 31, 2008)

How can you call Sasuke's flat affect and robotic mannerisms 3 dimensional? 

One Piece has  been consistently enjoyable from chapter 1, and if you're up to date with OP you should know that things are gonna get even better. Anyone who calls One Piece one dimensional lacks reading comprehension and common sense, but then again this is the Library so these asinine comments aren't that surprising


----------



## Dio Brando (Jan 31, 2008)

AkuOni said:


> Part 2 was awesome when Sasuke came back.



What you mean with the oh so great team snake ? I mean they are so original and interesting. *

Sasuke is such a dynamic character! Revenge Sharingan Revenge Sharingan Revenge Sharingan Revenge Sharingan Revenge Sharingan Revenge Sharingan Revenge Sharingan Revenge Sharingan Revenge Sharingan Revenge Sharingan

* I'm rolling my eyes as I type this.


----------



## AkuOni (Jan 31, 2008)

StrawHat4Life said:


> How can you call Sasuke's flat affect and robotic mannerisms 3 dimensional?
> 
> One Piece has  been consistently enjoyable from chapter 1, and if you're up to date with OP you should know that things are gonna get even better. Anyone who calls One Piece one dimensional lacks reading comprehension and common sense, but then again this is the Library so these asinine comments aren't that surprising


Hmm, him not smiling, or telling jokes or making puns makes him a robot. Why can't he be serious and heavily resonsible. he simply has no need to be a open book like Naruto.

Sasuke even smirks and uses cocky signals to show he's not totally lifeless.

One Piece was enjoyable, until they started adding more strawhats. Amd One Piece always ends up with Luffy saving the say with some overpowered gomu gomu attack.

Tell me, what character in that crew ever trains besides zolo with their powers?


----------



## KLoWn (Jan 31, 2008)

ark 9.0 said:


> argh...and surprisingly went to kill his brother, again...argh


That has been his goal since the the beginning of the manga, why would he stop before even reaching Itachi?


----------



## Aldric (Jan 31, 2008)

AkuOni said:


> It's a plaguristic rip off of DBZ and it's so simple, one diminsional, and inconsitant that it makes Hamtaro more complex.



lol "plaguristic". Easy with the big words buddy, you're getting carried away. Don't try too hard will you?

How is One Piece "one diminsional"? It has humor, action, adventure, and emotional scenes. It's an extremely well rounded series. "Inconsitant"? Care to give examples? Oh wait, you can't cause you don't read One Piece and you're Jizz.



> Seriously, at least Sasuke is human, Luffy and the others are fantasy crap characters with a bland build up and un realistic development that gives the characters no depth at all.



"bland build up"? Robin and Brook among others went through the kind of shit that makes the Uchiha clan massacre look like the mundane garbage that it truly is in comparison. And guess what? They got over it and didn't use their horribly fucked up past as an excuse to become unbearable douchebags.

Fuck it I won't bother with the rest actually.


----------



## Ark 2.0 (Jan 31, 2008)

KLoWn said:


> That has been his goal since the the beginning of the manga, why would he stop before even reaching Itachi?



argh...it gets, how shall i put this without offneding anyone, boring...argh


----------



## Agmaster (Jan 31, 2008)

tictactoc said:


> So 238 chapters are not "much" for you ? Part 1 is longer than Part 2 anyway, so your point is void.



Not really void as much as slanted.  Naruto is not as bad as I believe because Kishi has what... 90 or so chapters to have part 2 be as good as part 2 was.  Which is entirely possible as Kishi spikes in quality.  

The worst part for you is, people don't feel like going back and seeing how great the past was.  It's done and over, what matters most is current level of quality.  THat's why people just kind of forget about Chuunin and wave country, unless they are rushing to defend.  It is not human nature to stay in the past.


----------



## AkuOni (Jan 31, 2008)

ark 9.0 said:


> argh...it gets, how shall i put this without offneding anyone, boring...argh


You know he has to kill madara and obtain the MS.


----------



## Ark 2.0 (Jan 31, 2008)

AkuOni said:


> You know he has to kill madara and obtain the MS.



argh...then what, his only goal was to kill his borther, so if he kills his brother and lets say kishi wants him to kill madara later, then there will be a good part of teh story where he has nothing to do because he doesn't know bout madara...argh


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Jan 31, 2008)

AkuOni said:


> Hmm, him not smiling, or telling jokes or making puns makes him a robot. Why can't he be serious and heavily resonsible. he simply has no need to be a open book like Naruto.
> 
> Sasuke even smirks and uses cocky signals to show he's not totally lifeless.
> 
> ...



Yes because KB hax training was so enjoyable. Last time I checked it's the main characters who get to save the day just like Naruto always does. 

.....did you just call him Zolo


----------



## Ark 2.0 (Jan 31, 2008)

StrawHat4Life said:


> Yes because KB hax training was so enjoyable. Last time I checked it's the main characters who get to save the day just like Naruto always does.
> 
> .....did you just call him Zolo



argh...oh dear god...argh


----------



## Fang (Jan 31, 2008)

AkuOni said:


> You know he has to kill madara and obtain the MS.



Hahahaha, and you based this off what? Itachi's statements?


----------



## Ryan (Jan 31, 2008)

Just close this childish thread already, it's getting really stubid. Everyone has a different taste, and no one should force his opinions on others.

I don't really get it, I read like 5 to 15 mangas, and watched 6 animes recently.. and I don't see what's bothering others to know that I favour a certain manga/anime, that's really retarded.


----------



## Aldric (Jan 31, 2008)

It's not the problem of having different tastes, it's the arguments that are stupid and make OP critics come off as morons who never read the manga to begin with.

Saying "I dislike OP art and prefer Naruto's fights and characterization", why not, it's mostly personal preference and can't be challenged.

Saying "OP IS CHILDISH AND STATIC AND ALL TEH VILLAINS ARE TEH SAME LOLOLO" is retarded and a fallacy, and people shouldn't whine when they're getting called out on their bullshit.

Simple.


----------



## Ryan (Jan 31, 2008)

Big deal - I said OP is for kids too and that's my opinion, even though I think it's really funny and I may watch it every once and a while. why do you care about what others think? sorry but that's just stubid, it's like you're looking for trouble.


----------



## Aldric (Jan 31, 2008)

Because both manga are for kids, therefore stating childishness as a reason why one manga is inferior to the other is not a valid argument.

Why do I care? You know this is what public forums are for. Debating. This kind of stuff. You may want to look up the word in a dictionary just in case.


----------



## Ryan (Jan 31, 2008)

Lol, you want to debate people on which manga is better on thier opinion, seriously? Get a life dude.. that's.. aargh forget it, this's just hopeless.. I shouldn't have posted here. *sigh*


----------



## AkuOni (Jan 31, 2008)

ark 9.0 said:


> argh...then what, his only goal was to kill his borther, so if he kills his brother and lets say kishi wants him to kill madara later, then there will be a good part of teh story where he has nothing to do because he doesn't know bout madara...argh


Um, reunite with Team 7 and rivive his clan.


----------



## Jarl lKarl (Jan 31, 2008)

Oh look, it's everyone's favorite subjective arguments thread.


----------



## Broleta (Jan 31, 2008)

ρяίv?тε said:


> Lol, you want to debate people on which manga is better on thier opinion, seriously?



There's nothing absurd about this. Both are very similar in terms of genre and are published in the same magazine.


----------



## Aldric (Jan 31, 2008)

> Get a life dude..



u r so cool


----------



## competitionbros (Jan 31, 2008)

AkuOni said:


> Seriously, at least Sasuke is human, Luffy and the others are fantasy crap characters......




Say huh? Sorry but isn't that the same guy who was _flying_?


----------



## Supa Swag (Jan 31, 2008)

ρяίv?тε said:


> Big deal - I said OP is for kids too and that's my opinion,




That's fine to think (it being in SJ and all), just as long as you say Naruto is for kids too.


----------



## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 31, 2008)

AkuOni said:


> Tell me, what character in that crew ever trains besides zolo with their powers?


*
They have only been in the grandline for like 3 or 4 months maybe. Every week they get into fights that push them until they are a millimeter from death. that's not training enough? Annd most of them do think about their fighting ability outside of fights. Like Luffy with gears, Usopp with ammo/weapons, Franky with body etc. To say they don't train at all is like saying they don't use the bathroom. 

AND WTF DID YOU JUST FUCKING CALL HIM ZOLO? ZORO ZORO ZORO ZORO ZORO ZORO THE MAN WHO WTF PWNS THE UNIVERSE AND FUCKING WINS AND SHIT. *


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jan 31, 2008)

WTB a actually good argument from someone that shows that Naruto > OP instead of ridicilous arguments that OP is childish.

Prime example of the latter is in my sig and kinda symbolic for this thread so far if you ask me.

I loled hard when i first read it :rofl


----------



## Ark 2.0 (Jan 31, 2008)

Kweck said:


> WTB a actually good argument from someone that shows that Naruto > OP instead of ridicilous arguments that OP is childish.
> 
> Oh wait, it wont happen



argh...the ninjas have many tricks up there sleves, i'm still holding out for a good argument...argh


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jan 31, 2008)

ark 9.0 said:


> argh...the ninjas have many tricks up there sleves, i'm still holding out for a good argument...argh



Same. Just watch my sig in the meanwhile for probably the best one so far


----------



## Aldric (Jan 31, 2008)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> *
> They have only been in the grandline for like 3 or 4 months maybe. Every week they get into fights that push them until they are a millimeter from death. that's not training enough? Annd most of them do think about their fighting ability outside of fights. Like Luffy with gears, Usopp with ammo/weapons, Franky with body etc. To say they don't train at all is like saying they don't use the bathroom.
> 
> AND WTF DID YOU JUST FUCKING CALL HIM ZOLO? ZORO ZORO ZORO ZORO ZORO ZORO THE MAN WHO WTF PWNS THE UNIVERSE AND FUCKING WINS AND SHIT. *



Hay Polygon 

Did you see that apparently Sasuke was a far better character than Zoro? Learn something new everyday.

Also I like how Jizz says One Piece is plagiarizing DBZ and a few lines later complains that the crew never trains between fights. DERRRRRRR


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jan 31, 2008)

Aldric said:


> Hay Polygon
> 
> Did you see that apparently Sasuke was a far better character than Zoro? Learn something new everyday.
> 
> Also I like how Jizz says One Piece is plagiarizing DBZ and a few lines later complains that the crew never trains between fights. DERRRRRRR



Yo Aldric. And lol at that :rofl

I am glad there aint any training shown in OP, i find it more interesting that Luffy makes new moves in mid-battle.


----------



## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 31, 2008)

Aldric said:


> Hay Polygon
> 
> Did you see that apparently Sasuke was a far better character than Zoro? Learn something new everyday.
> 
> Also I like how Jizz says One Piece is plagiarizing DBZ and a few lines later complains that the crew never trains between fights. DERRRRRRR


*
I did not know that, but now I know that Sasuke is a great character.  

I'll rep you later my super best friend. *


----------



## Ark 2.0 (Jan 31, 2008)

Aldric said:


> Hay Polygon
> 
> Did you see that apparently Sasuke was a far better character than Zoro? Learn something new everyday.
> 
> Also I like how Jizz says One Piece is plagiarizing DBZ and a few lines later complains that the crew never trains between fights. DERRRRRRR



argh...this place is trully a den for ninjas....argh, but seriusly, wehn did sauke become such a good character...argh?


----------



## C-Moon (Jan 31, 2008)

AkuOni said:


> I've read One Piece and Luffy looks just like Goku, and has the most predictible attacks ever.


 
How far did you go?


----------



## Pimp of Pimps (Jan 31, 2008)

*HOLY SHIT HE'S RIGHT

LUFFY LOOKS EXACTLY LIKE GOKU*


----------



## Fang (Jan 31, 2008)

Luffy being like Goku > Naruto and Sasuke being equal to bland and shitty developed characters.


----------



## C-Moon (Jan 31, 2008)

AkuOni said:
			
		

> _Seriously, at least Sasuke is human, Luffy and the others are fantasy crap characters......_


With snakes growing out of back? If that's not fantasy, I don't know what is.



Pimp of Pimps said:


> *HOLY SHIT HE'S RIGHT*
> 
> *LUFFY LOOKS EXACTLY LIKE GOKU*


 
Oh shi-, you just fed a dupe.


----------



## geG (Jan 31, 2008)

Pimp of Pimps said:


> *HOLY SHIT HE'S RIGHT
> 
> LUFFY LOOKS EXACTLY LIKE GOKU*






BY GOD I THINK YOU'RE ON TO SOMETHING


----------



## competitionbros (Jan 31, 2008)

I don't see how _anyone_ can talk bad about character development in One Piece while in Naruto unless you're a member of team 7 then you're basically expendable and not needed or have NO air time in which to develop: Tenten, Shino, Temari and Kankuro, Ino; all no develop and no backstory, I mean wtf? At least show a past for these characters.


----------



## C-Moon (Jan 31, 2008)

competitionbros said:


> I don't see how _anyone_ can talk bad about character development in One Piece while in Naruto unless you're a member of team 7 then you're basically expendable and not needed or have NO air time in which to develop: Tenten, Shino, Temari and Kankuro, Ino; all no develop and no backstory, I mean wtf? *At least show a past for these characters.*


 
One that *isn't* tied to the Uchiha.


----------



## Dio Brando (Jan 31, 2008)

Even Kakashi hasn't had development since his gaiden.


----------



## MdB (Jan 31, 2008)

What Zoro did two chapters ago was more badass and acknowledgeable than anything Sasuke did in his entire damn manga. 

But of course, Sasuke consist of layers of complexity and development....


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jan 31, 2008)

MdB said:


> What Zoro did two chapters ago was more badass and acknowledgeable than anything Sasuke did in his entire damn manga.
> 
> But of course, Sasuke consist of layers of complexity and development....



You just don't understand Sasuke! Leave him alone!


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Jan 31, 2008)

Even Zoro who is the most stoic and reserved member of the crew can laugh and show different sides of his personality unlike Sasuke who is just one note.


----------



## Maycara (Jan 31, 2008)

Luffy has tons of badass moments, that cannot be denied. Really the decided comes down to two reasons for me. Why I chose Naruto over OP, and its only these two reasons. The human factor in Naruto. Sasori's death to his puppet parents due to finally breaking to human feelings. Stuff like that. And the Designs, yes Naruto designs tend to be unoringnal, i won't deny that, which is a pro for OP, cause its designs are...sadly I hate most of the designs in OP...in went in the wrong way for be orin I guess. Other then that there the same for me.


----------



## Buggy The Clown (Jan 31, 2008)

Lol, with that being said it all the guys that sasuke are like are one piece villains like Crocodile, Bellamy, Arlong and others talking about how superior they are then they get their ass kicked.


----------



## Maycara (Jan 31, 2008)

Buggy The Clown said:


> Lol, with that being said it all the guys that sasuke are like are one piece villains like Crocodile, Bellamy, Arlong and others talking about how superior they are then they get their ass kicked.



ROFL maybe thats why I hate all 3 of them. Cause I hate Sasuke as well, lol.


----------



## MdB (Jan 31, 2008)

Minzara said:


> Luffy has tons of badass moments, that cannot be denied. Really the decided comes down to two reasons for me. Why I chose Naruto over OP, and its only these two reasons. The human factor in Naruto. Sasori's death to his puppet parents due to finally breaking to human feelings. Stuff like that. And the Designs, yes Naruto designs tend to be unoringnal, i won't deny that, which is a pro for OP, cause its designs are...sadly I hate most of the designs in OP...in went in the wrong way for be orin I guess. Other then that there the same for me.



Montblanc fucking Norland has more human feelings than the entire cast of Naruto, same for Docter Hiruluk.


----------



## Maycara (Jan 31, 2008)

MdB said:


> Montblanc fucking Norland has more human feelings than the entire cast of Naruto, same for Docter Hiruluk.



Thats your opinion, I disagree greatly. I think Naruto has a unique way of showing human emotions that isn't understood by many, which is probably why its so hated.


----------



## Fang (Jan 31, 2008)

I'm happy! Now I'm angsting! Now I'm even more depressive! Now I'm angry! That's about as in-depth as humanity goes for the vast majority of Naruto characters.


----------



## Dark World Lightning (Jan 31, 2008)

> Montblanc fucking Norland has more human feelings than the entire cast of Naruto,



I wouldn't quite go that far.

Characterization was much stronger in Part I than in Part II. Mostly because there was a lot more focus on secondary characters back then, partly because the story didn't revolve around a fanwanking Mary Sue.

I mean, Kishimoto had me feeling for *Dosu* of all people. In his brief appearances, you could see his protectiveness spill out a little bit for his friends, his resentment at being one of Orochimaru's pawns, and his sympathy and outrage for one of his friends crippled so casually. His characterization was short yet beautiful and I actually felt bad for him to meet an undignified--but well justified--death at the end.

Kishimoto does not develop secondary characters like that anymore, not since the Rescue Gaara arc. It looks like Pein and Madara might be the huge exceptions of Shippuden and I'm holding out hope for them.


----------



## Maycara (Jan 31, 2008)

TWF said:


> I'm happy! Now I'm angsting! Now I'm even more depressive! Now I'm angry! That's about as in-depth as humanity goes for the vast majority of Naruto characters.



You guys complain about Naruto fans saying stuff like that about OP characters, like it's fact, yet you do it?


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jan 31, 2008)

To be seriously honest, I think Sasuke and the Uchiha in general have grown to be a detriment in the Naruto manga. I know Sasuke's story is important and all, and I know the secret of the clan is important as well, but I always get the feeling it's just too much.

The tailed-demons is another issue...I was really let down that the most of the fights with the jinchuriki or the beasts themselves occured off-screen. Would've been interesting to know what they looked like at least. I mean, aren't they the instruments of destruction in the manga?


----------



## MdB (Jan 31, 2008)

Minzara said:


> Thats your opinion, I disagree greatly. I think Naruto has a unique way of showing human emotions that isn't understood by many, which is probably why its so hated.



No I undestand it perfectly, sadly Kishimoto likes to make carbon copies of his drama over and over again, he even shitted on his own theme of hard work surpassing talent. 

Shitting on your own themes, that's quality ladies and gentleman.


----------



## Matariki (Jan 31, 2008)

Sasuke >>> Zoro


----------



## Fang (Jan 31, 2008)

Seiko said:


> Sasuke >>> Zoro



It's far too bad that Zoro is faster, stronger and more durable then Sasuke.

By a lot.


----------



## Maycara (Jan 31, 2008)

MdB said:


> No I undestand it perfectly, sadly Kishimoto likes to make carbon copies of his drama over and over again, he even shitted on his own theme of hard work surpassing talent.
> 
> Shitting on your own themes, that's quality ladies and gentleman.



Manga's not complete yet.....Naruto is the key of hard work, and Rock Lee, these are the two characters that suppurted it the most. Right now its just telling Sasuke story. Naruto will show Hard Work prevails in the end. Hell even Rock Lee might, Kishi surprised us with crazy Itachi, and Madara...he can do it again.


----------



## competitionbros (Jan 31, 2008)

OP reigns over Naruto for me because: 


The fights are better- It's funny that all the best fights in Naruto to me include the guy with no real abilities (Rock Lee) which have been him vs. gaara and him vs. Kimimaro....... Other than those no Naruto fights excited me, not even my fav character Neji fights excited me.

On the other hand, even my least favorite Strawhat's(chopper) fights are exciting, especially him and Usopp in Alabasta.

In OP the tear-jerking moments are well.........tear-jerking- The saddest I've ever felt in Naruto is Rock lee losing to Gaara and that was just like "damn sucks for Rock Lee" whereas in OP I almost cried simply while they were burning a ship.

Comedy- No need to comment.


----------



## Mullet_Power (Jan 31, 2008)

AkuOni said:


> Retarded emo shit is something you are you ignorant, predjudiced, jackass. And how much did you read of the Naruto manga to make that claim about Sasuke's character? None I bet. No one can be that stupid and blunt about a character they hate. Sasuke has grown from a happy boy from his family, to a conflicted talented prodigy with some cocky nature to him, to a more serious, determined, head strong leader with a sense of duty and a vendetta that effects his entire purpose as the last Uchiha and his plan of restoring the Uchiha clan once more. He's noble and focused on his goals and will take on in danger just to complete it, his character is so dynamic and so well rounded, it effects the main character overall and builds a persistant determination in Naruto to become stronger. It effects the plot as well since he has to avenge not only one but two Uchiha masters that have the abilty to control the Plot core element, Kyuubi. Also Madara is the final villain. Your ignorance knows no boundries, if you call Naruto a mediorce media, while One Piece isnt any better.
> 
> It's a plaguristic rip off of DBZ and it's so simple, one diminsional, and inconsitant that it makes Hamtaro more complex. Seriously, at least Sasuke is human, Luffy and the others are fantasy crap characters with a bland build up and un realistic development that gives the characters no depth at all. It's like looking at a DBZ clone with disney elements. Luffy himself is one deminsional, static, annoying lame, and overpowered. A Default with no human qualities but Angry and Happy. Full of PIS, he never struggles and always manages to beat bad guys without showing humanity in the process. How can you relate to him, you can't. he sucks so ad that he has to be filled with far more interesting characters other than him to allow him to be a toleratable character to endure. Plus same formula each arc, and the Straw Hats always manage to pull Plot Plot Fruit out of their asses when they're about pwned to death.
> 
> Seriously, double standards coming from you dude. Major double standards.



Went back a couple of pages and saw this gem and i had to comment on it...



> Sasuke has grown from a happy boy from his family, to a conflicted talented prodigy with some cocky nature to him, to a more serious, determined, head strong leader with a sense of duty and a vendetta that effects his entire purpose as the last Uchiha and his plan of restoring the Uchiha clan once more.



Explain how he has grown into a leader? Like he didn't care about leaf ninjas possibly dying for him at the end of part 1, he doesn't give 2 fucks about team hebi. They are just there to distract Kisame long enough so he can fight Itachi 1v1. If he was a leader he would not be acting on revenge and personal reasons he would be acting on the best options for the team, as in all four of them fighting Kisame then going off to fight Itachi as a team. 

Also how is spending all your time trying to kill the last remaining clan members have anything to do with restoring the clan, if he wasn't completely blinded by killing his brother he would have already had is revenge on him. By ignoring him and rebuilding his clan the right way and letting his brother go and have his Akatsuki circle jerk instead of playing along with Itachi's plans.



> He's noble and focused on his goals and will take on in danger just to complete it, his character is so dynamic and so well rounded, it effects the main character overall and builds a persistant determination in Naruto to become stronger.



Noble...at what point is betraying you country, your friends, and people who were like family to you after losing your own considered noble. In fact he went to help the man who killed someone who died to protect his dumb ass. The only reason he killed him was in defense of himself, and we still don't know if he succeeded or just fell into Oro's trap. The only reason he makes naruto become stronger is because Naruto still thinks of him as a friend, and realizes(like all the readers should have realized) that he is making some stupid choices and he is trying to stop him before he makes a big mistake.



> It's a plaguristic rip off of DBZ and it's so simple, one diminsional, and inconsitant that it makes Hamtaro more complex. Seriously, at least Sasuke is human, Luffy and the others are fantasy crap characters with a bland build up and un realistic development that gives the characters no depth at all. It's like looking at a DBZ clone with disney elements.



Yeah because Naruto is on this whole other level of creativity, where people can't predict what is going to happen...oh wait Naruto and the fourth have the  same hair, the fourth is his dad! Naruto's plot is easily predicted by the readers because it is a simplistic storyline. Just because people die and turn into demon freaks != complex plot. A complex plot is something that is not predictable, that surprises the readers every week. In One Piece we are constantly surprised even with the evidence right in front of us, yet Naruto can't even stop us from realizing that Uchiha Mandara was still alive and one of the founders of Konoha also that he used the Kyuubi to attack Konoha...Why could we figure that out? Because that statue at VotE had the same fucking hair as Sasuke and the Kyuubi said his name once. A friggin child could and probably did figure that out.



> Luffy himself is one deminsional, static, annoying lame, and overpowered. A Default with no human qualities but Angry and Happy. Full of PIS, he never struggles and always manages to beat bad guys without showing humanity in the process. How can you relate to him, you can't. he sucks so ad that he has to be filled with far more interesting characters other than him to allow him to be a tolerable character to endure.



No human qualities, I'm sorry but he is a far more realistic character then you give him credit for. The reason why he is the way he is, is because he has to be like that in order for his dream to come true. If he spent all his time bitching and whining at every lost cause he would never have his dream realized (sound familiar?). he however does care about people and there dreams and feelings, his is willing to almost die to protect a nakama or even a stranger and their dreams. Naruto and Sasuke just fucking abandon their home to fulfill their own selfish dreams. You think Sasuke would give up his dream of killing his brother because a friend was in trouble? No because he has already betrayed them for that reason. 

People can relate to Luffy because he is everything we wish we could be as a person. Not fearing anyone even when they are clearly stronger than you (aokiji), sacrificing ourselves to protect others(both physically and their dreams), and never faltering in our dream no matter how tough it gets never whining or complaining. Also luffy never brags about his strength, even when being beaten to bloody pulp and being completely humiliated by Bellamy he never bragged about his strength or fought back just to show off.

The fact is that Luffy is probably the most interesting character in One Piece because not only does always think of others before himself he has this aura about him that makes his friends willing to give up their own dreams to protect his because Luffy always puts his hopes and dreams on the line protecting them.



> Plus same formula each arc, and the Straw Hats always manage to pull Plot Plot Fruit out of their asses when they're about pwned to death.



I would like to scan through your history and find an instance where you have said PNJ to some naruto event in the past to prove:



> Seriously, double standards coming from you dude. Major double standards.



Is true for you, but if your posts in this thread have shown me anything, it is that you clearly have no thought and no effort put behind your posts, and spending hours of my time reading through your shitty thoughts would be detrimental to my health.

The fact is that no one here is out to change people's minds or to change ones opinion on witch one is better. We are here for people to give One Piece a chance, and not a 10 chapter chance and getting annoyed because you think stretching is "childish" but actually reading the series and seeing what makes it different from naruto and it's true strong and weak points. Hell i will outline the weak points.

1) Characters never return. Other than the odd cover story we have yet to see a side character return to the plot, and affect the overall story. For instance i love Wiper but i am never gonna see his badassery again

2) Fights are more dragged out than most manga/anime. Luffy vs. Lucci is a classic example.

3) There is one maybe two arcs that you could say were in there to waste time, though this does not effect the entertainment value of the arc. Also Oda has shown that some arcs that we thought were a waste (laboon) will play a part in the story later on.

Now for Naruto's strong points

1) A huge cast of characters. Wile One Piece has 8-9 characters that play a role in the story. In naruto we have  a massive cast of characters that come in and out of the story. So everyone can have a character they like.

2) Probably the most well thought out world in manga. Chakara is almost a fucking science now. We know how the characters get and use there powers down to a scientific level. There is many great rules to a ninja's power that allows us to debate who is stronger for eternity and does a good job of blurring the power levels since there are so many factors.

*continued in next post*


----------



## Mullet_Power (Jan 31, 2008)

3) The main character(though this has weakened since part 2 so i will comment on the part 1 edition). Naruto himself is an awesome main character who can be very inspirational in showing how an underdog can apply himself and make himself a better person in many ways. Also the importance of family and friends is just as strong if not stronger in part 1 naruto when compared to One Piece. Depending on if the the story changes from it's current stage the Naruto character could be the best coming of age story in any anime.

4) Once again going back to how the world is set up, another great thing is the tactics that can be employed in naruto fights. It is really a step above any other Shounen fighting manga (just rewatch/reread any shika fight, or early naruto fights). No one here can really deny that. But that said once again the quality has fallen and now it is a massive "feint battle".

There are many others i go into but this post is long enough. The point is that every One Piece reader know Naruto is a potentially great manga that has pissed it away recently and has become way too predictable. The reason why we try and get people to read One Piece is because it was similar to naruto in the beginning, both full of great action, adventure and in large living breathing worlds. The only difference is that One Piece has stayed consistent and we want people to experience a manga that doesn't have any wasted potential.


----------



## Xell (Jan 31, 2008)

First thing I love about One Piece is the way each character is unique in their own way. Naruto on the other hand seems to follow the same thing for each team. They have the loud mouth (Naruto, Kiba), the quiet one (Sasuke, Neji, Shino), the useless female (Sakura, Ino, Tenten), the people who've failed and learn from those mistakes (Naruto, Sakura, Lee, Chouji).

I used to love Naruto, but now it feels so predictable. When you see a major villain getting beaten down hard straight away, you can almost bet it's a genjutsu. One Piece though, especially in the recent arc, just when you think it's over, something else happens which you would never have guessed would happen and it makes you want more!

And while Naruto is gaining a new Rasengan powerup every 40 chapters, Luffy only just got his first few major power ups after 300 chapters, which is good, because when you rely on power ups too much, it gets old. I hope Oda continues to pace himself with that.

And no training arcs.. Thank god! I don't mind one sometimes, but Naruto had too many. Yeah, let's watch a training arc to see an attack which the main character will obviously learn because he IS the main character who manages to beat the odds in the end. Where as with gear 2, who was expecting that? I sure as hell wasn't, and that just made it more intense. When Luffy first pumped that air through his body, it had you on the edge of your seat wondering "what the hell is he up to".

Artwise. I don't mind Naruto's art, but it definitely got worse since Part 1. It's like Kishimoto just stopped caring and started making generic character designs, stopped shading and started making zoomed in face panels with a character staring. When you see some of the landscapes in One Piece, and when you see some of the views Oda draws his characters from, you can just tell he really does make an effort on the small details. I don't have a problem with his art, and I never did, and I wouldn't imagine One Piece being drawn any differently, because that's how One Piece is. I can see why people would dislike the One Piece art style though.

I could go on, but I wouldn't want to bore you people more than I already have.

tl;dr: One Piece definitely.


----------



## Dark World Lightning (Jan 31, 2008)

> 1) A huge cast of characters. Wile One Piece has 8-9 characters that play a role in the story. In naruto we have a massive cast of characters that come in and out of the story. So everyone can have a character they like.



See, to me, that's a gigantic weakness of Naruto.

One Piece, by it's nature, is upfront about its feelings towards the attachment to its characters. The only people whose stories we'll see to the end of the manga are people in Luffy's pirate crew.

But Naruto doesn't have that courtesy. Before Part II started, if you would've told the fans of the Rookie 12/their sensei/Sand Sibling that only two members outside of Team Seven would get anything approaching halfway decent development/fight time over the next 250+ chapters, they would've rightly laughed at you.

Naruto has a large cast of interesting characters but doesn't use it. To pour MORE salt into the wounds, Kishimoto keeps introducing interesting characters that either get killed off in undignified ways (Akatsuki mostly) or characters he never intends to develop at all. Sai and Team Hebi.


----------



## Dark World Lightning (Jan 31, 2008)

One Piece on the other hand, approaches their tiny cast with the attitude of 'okay, only a small number of people are going to get sufficient develop past their current arc, let's make it good'.

Naruto COULD'VE done this route with Team Seven had they been upfront about it. But even that would've failed. Sakura and Kakashi have gotten no development since the Save Gaara arc. Naruto has gotten NEGATIVE development. Sasuke has gotten development that's pleasing to the fans of Mary Sues but shitty from a literary standpoint.

Fucking pathetic.


----------



## Maycara (Jan 31, 2008)

Dark World Lightning said:


> See, to me, that's a gigantic weakness of Naruto.
> 
> One Piece, by it's nature, is upfront about its feelings towards the attachment to its characters. The only people whose stories we'll see to the end of the manga are people in Luffy's pirate crew.
> 
> ...



Lets HOPE he doesn't develop Sai anymore....I HATE his character...and his design most of all.....


----------



## MdB (Jan 31, 2008)

Minzara said:


> Manga's not complete yet.....Naruto is the key of hard work, and Rock Lee, these are the two characters that suppurted it the most. Right now its just telling Sasuke story. Naruto will show Hard Work prevails in the end. Hell even Rock Lee might, Kishi surprised us with crazy Itachi, and Madara...he can do it again.



Naruto has been downgraded as a character ever since he couldn't get over the whole Sasuke fiasco that happened a few years ago in the current timeline. As for Rock Lee, the one that was drivin' by the whole theme.... Since when did he actually won a fight?


----------



## Mullet_Power (Jan 31, 2008)

Dark World Lightning said:


> See, to me, that's a gigantic weakness of Naruto.
> 
> One Piece, by it's nature, is upfront about its feelings towards the attachment to its characters. The only people whose stories we'll see to the end of the manga are people in Luffy's pirate crew.
> 
> ...



Notice how did not say character development as a strength.  Just for cool factor it is nice to have a huge cast so you can have many different abilities to showcase in different arcs.


----------



## Maycara (Jan 31, 2008)

MdB said:


> Naruto has been downgraded as a character ever since he couldn't get over the whole Sasuke fiasco that happened a few years ago in the current timeline. As for Rock Lee, the one that was drivin' by the whole theme.... Since when did he actually won a fight?



Alright I again, disagree with you. I think the Sasuke chasing is related to Hokage, Naruto feel's if you lost a friend to the Orachimaru like he did. What good Hokage would he be? Naruto as tries for his best, and NEVER stops till he gets there. His whole chasing Sasuke, is basically chasing Hokage still. Which relates to his Hardwork.

No Lee has, BUT Look who he has faught? Gaara, WHO beat Sasuke as well. Yet he almost beat a man this powerful, from hardwork alone.

Kimimaro, kicked Naruto ass, and WOULD have killed Gaara, not for the sickness, yet he did really well against him, JUST coming out of sugery, so he wasn't 100%.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jan 31, 2008)

MdB said:


> Naruto has been downgraded as a character ever since he couldn't get over the whole Sasuke fiasco that happened a few years ago in the current timeline. As for Rock Lee, the one that was drivin' by the whole theme.... Since when did he actually won a fight?



He never has actually, so the point of hardwork just went out of the window for Minzara


----------



## Halcyon Days (Jan 31, 2008)

Op brings a great deal of originality that what draws in people while naruto sticks to a centered theme.


----------



## Dark World Lightning (Jan 31, 2008)

> Lets HOPE he doesn't develop Sai anymore....I HATE his character...and his design most of all.....



I thought Sai's character had potential. He's 'sexy', but still extremely socially-inept. Not in a charming 'aw, shucks, he's so precious' kind of way, but a 'what the hell is wrong with this guy'.

There was a reason why Sai acted the way he did but he still grew over the course of his arc.

But Sai's not an Uchiha/Akatsuki and he wasn't around in the manga long enough to gain a significant fanbase before the manga went all Uchiha Syndrome. So he's not going to experience any more development, ever, other than being the butt of penis jokes.

That's what is so frustrating about Part II to me. Kishimoto shows flashes of competence, even excellence, but quickly scuttles it to provide fanservice and Mary Sue fanwanking.


----------



## Maycara (Jan 31, 2008)

Kweck said:


> He never has actually, so the point of hardwork just went out of the window for Minzara



Read my post my friend....



Dark World Lightning said:


> I thought Sai's character had potential. He's 'sexy', but still extremely socially-inept. Not in a charming 'aw, shucks, he's so precious' kind of way, but a 'what the hell is wrong with this guy'.
> 
> There was a reason why Sai acted the way he did but he still grew over the course of his arc.
> 
> ...



Sai just annoyed me.. I can't explain it..I just wanted to punch him in the face..still do.


----------



## competitionbros (Jan 31, 2008)

Che.....Sasuke:Abandons village for power and revenge and almost kills best friend yet best friend abandons village to train for two years just to get Sasuke back makes no sense.

Usopp: Abandons crew over a ship he knew was broken and out of fear of fighting strong people, fights his best friend and leaves the crew, comes back to help them under alias but even with that Luffy was willing to leave him behind if he didn't apologize........basically the same and yet.........


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jan 31, 2008)

Minzara said:


> Read my post my friend....
> 
> 
> 
> Sai just annoyed me.. I can't explain it..I just wanted to punch him in the face..still do.



I did. You said Kishi could surprise us again with hardwork paying off and it hasnt in the case of Rock Lee.


----------



## Dark World Lightning (Jan 31, 2008)

> Notice how did not say character development as a strength. Just for cool factor it is nice to have a huge cast so you can have many different abilities to showcase in different arcs.



Then One Piece has Naruto beat by a mile.

The characters have cooler attacks and there are a lot more of them.

It's a gigantic insult to the fans to pull a character development switcheroo on them halfway into the manga. Kishimoto has pushed the quality <==> quantity scale of character development to the right, which leaves Neji/Rock Lee/Hinata fans in the cold. And considering that people developing an extreme attachment to his secondary characters is what made people hooked on Naruto and developing a fanbase, that's ungrateful in the extreme.


----------



## Maycara (Jan 31, 2008)

competitionbros said:


> Che.....Sasuke:Abandons village for power and revenge and almost kills best friend yet best friend abandons village to train for two years just to get Sasuke back makes no sense.
> 
> Usopp: Abandons crew over a ship he knew was broken and out of fear of fighting strong people, fights his best friend and leaves the crew, comes back to help them under alias but even with that Luffy was willing to leave him behind if he didn't apologize........basically the same and yet.........



Naruto has always been hard headed since the begining of the manga, once he sets his mind to something HE WONT change his mind no matter the case. 

You just brought up my fav part of the OP manga.....






WHY DID YOU DO IT USSOP!! WHY!!!

Okay I am done..I loved that part...



Kweck said:


> I did. You said Kishi could surprise us again with hardwork paying off and it hasnt in the case of Rock Lee.



The one AFTER that....><


----------



## Micku (Jan 31, 2008)

Kweck said:


> I did. You said Kishi would make hardwork pay off and it hasnt in the case of Rock Lee.



HE WILL IN THE END!


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jan 31, 2008)

MdB said:


> Naruto has been downgraded as a character ever since he couldn't get over the whole Sasuke fiasco that happened a few years ago in the current timeline. As for Rock Lee, the one that was drivin' by the whole theme.... Since when did he actually won a fight?



Regarding themes, hasn't the theme of one not having a set destiny in Naruto been contradicted with this "Destined Child" thing?


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jan 31, 2008)

Minzara said:


> Naruto has always been hard headed since the begining of the manga, once he sets his mind to something HE WONT change his mind no matter the case.
> 
> You just brought up my fav part of the OP manga.....
> 
> ...



That one came after i made my post but okey nvm.

I still think OP > Naruto bye far atm.

Part 2 has dragged Naruto so much down from Part 1 that it isnt even funny.

This thread should be closed soon, no point in going on as we never agree about this.


----------



## competitionbros (Jan 31, 2008)

Minzara said:


> Naruto has always been hard headed since the begining of the manga, once he sets his mind to something HE WONT change his mind no matter the case.





There's a difference between hardheaded and being foolish and a child.


----------



## Maycara (Jan 31, 2008)

competitionbros said:


> There's a difference between hardheaded and being foolish and a child.



This is true, but just like Sasuke, I believe in the end Naruto was relize his mistake. He has to learn and grow up. In the end he well relize he cannot control  people.


----------



## competitionbros (Jan 31, 2008)

Minzara said:


> This is true, but just like Sasuke, I believe in the end Naruto was relize his mistake. He has to learn and grow up. In the end he well relize he cannot control  people.





I.....don't see that happening: If he hasn't learned when Sasuke almost killed him, if he didn't learn in two and a half years, and if he didn't learn when they met again then there's really no hope for him.


----------



## Maycara (Jan 31, 2008)

competitionbros said:


> I.....don't see that happening: If he hasn't learned when Sasuke almost killed him, if he didn't learn in two and a half years, and if he didn't learn when they met again then there's really no hope for him.



That may be so, we truly won't know till the manga is over. So we got to wait before we debate on that whole subject imo, Cause depending on the outcome it could change everything.


----------



## Mullet_Power (Jan 31, 2008)

Dark World Lightning said:


> Then One Piece has Naruto beat by a mile.
> 
> The characters have cooler attacks and there are a lot more of them.
> 
> It's a gigantic insult to the fans to pull a character development switcheroo on them halfway into the manga. Kishimoto has pushed the quality <==> quantity scale of character development to the right, which leaves Neji/Rock Lee/Hinata fans in the cold. And considering that people developing an extreme attachment to his secondary characters is what made people hooked on Naruto and developing a fanbase, that's ungrateful in the extreme.



Well think that One Piece attacks are cooler is a matter of opinion...an opinion i agree with but of course i am a bigger One Piece fan but...

Like i said i agree that Kishi dropped the ball on devolping characters and that it is bullshit that they were all thrown aside before their story was complete. It doesn't change the fact that people read and to a degree enjoy naruto when we see old characters come back and see them fight again. For example Gai vs. Kisame clone it was awesome for me to see one of my favorite characters who didn't do much fighting in part one to show us gate badassery.

Also i don't know if you read my post before it (it was to long so i had to make 2) but i am arguing that one piece is better...


----------



## competitionbros (Jan 31, 2008)

Minzara said:


> That may be so, we truly won't know till the manga is over. So we got to wait before we debate on that whole subject imo, Cause depending on the outcome it could change everything.




But that's just it, it may take till the very end of the manga for Naruto to grow-up and learn to let some people go yet somehow OP is childish? I don't get it. Not saying you said it was childish but alot of people against it do.


----------



## Maycara (Jan 31, 2008)

competitionbros said:


> But that's just it, it may take till the very end of the manga for Naruto to grow-up and learn to let some people go yet somehow OP is childish? I don't get it. Not saying you said it was childish but alot of people against it do.



Well thats the point...I didn't. And Personally I dont think either is childish. They both have very serious tons to them.


----------



## NinnjaHero (Jan 31, 2008)

I hate tards ffs.I love both series but OP is better at most things.But naruto is not bad but i prefer OP


----------



## Amatsu (Jan 31, 2008)

Micku said:


> HE WILL IN THE END!



Yeah yeah... we all hope Kishi WILL do something with his characters, but the fact is he won't and it's nothing but wishful thinking. He's not going to make Hinata shine, he's never going to let Lee win a fight, he'll never give Shino or TenTen any screentime, He'll never let Ino or Chouji do anything important. Let's face it unless you're part of Team 7 you're fucked, and even look at the current arc. Out of all of Team Kurenai Kiba is doing the most. Shino gets ignored, and Hinata like usual does jack shit.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jan 31, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Yeah yeah... we all hope Kishi WILL do something with his characters, but the fact is he won't and it's nothing but wishful thinking. He's not going to make Hinata shine, he's never going to let Lee win a fight, he'll never give Shino or TenTen any screentime, He'll never let Ino or Chouji do anything important. Let's face it unless you're part of Team 7 you're fucked, and even look at the current arc. Out of all of Team Kurenai Kiba is doing the most. Shino gets ignored, and Hinata like usual does jack shit.



As long as the Uchiha are the main villains at the moment there is no hope for Naruto whatsoever.

Seriously i hope for to be revealed about Pein or Orochimaru to return, then it would at least get more interesting.


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Jan 31, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Yeah yeah... we all hope Kishi WILL do something with his characters, but the fact is he won't and it's nothing but wishful thinking. He's not going to make Hinata shine, he's never going to let Lee win a fight, he'll never give Shino or TenTen any screentime, He'll never let Ino or Chouji do anything important. Let's face it unless you're part of Team 7 you're fucked, and even look at the current arc. Out of all of Team Kurenai Kiba is doing the most. Shino gets ignored, and Hinata like usual does jack shit.



This current arc's battles are just getting started. I'm sure that Team 8 will get some spotlight especially Shino and Hinata.


----------



## Dark World Lightning (Jan 31, 2008)

> This current arc's battles are just getting started. I'm sure that Team 8 will get some spotlight especially Shino and Hinata.



And then later, we'll see Temari and Kankuro's new growth and Chouji and Ino will get to do important things!

Face it, it's not going to happen. Kishimoto had a much better chance to showcase the abilities of the former two groups but he completely failed to do so. With all of the plot devices he's throwing around and the Uchiha wankfest in full swing, do you think he has any time to devote to Team 8 given his characterization in Part II?

The answer is no.

*SCORE ANOTHER POINT FOR ONE PIECE! YAAAAAY!*


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Jan 31, 2008)

Dark World Lightning said:


> And then later, we'll see Temari and Kankuro's new growth and Chouji and Ino will get to do important things!
> 
> Face it, it's not going to happen. Kishimoto had a much better chance to showcase the abilities of the former two groups but he completely failed to do so. With all of the plot devices he's throwing around and the Uchiha wankfest in full swing, do you think he has any time to devote to Team 8 given his characterization in Part II?
> 
> ...



I know but one can dream.


----------



## Amatsu (Jan 31, 2008)

Well apparently if you're not a Uchiha you're just not important in the Naruto series.


----------



## Halcyon Days (Jan 31, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Yeah yeah... we all hope Kishi WILL do something with his characters, but the fact is he won't and it's nothing but wishful thinking. He's not going to make Hinata shine, he's never going to let Lee win a fight, he'll never give Shino or TenTen any screentime, He'll never let Ino or Chouji do anything important. Let's face it unless you're part of Team 7 you're fucked, and even look at the current arc. Out of all of Team Kurenai Kiba is doing the most. Shino gets ignored, and Hinata like usual does jack shit.



I hate what you said, but sadly its true.


----------



## Denji (Jan 31, 2008)

Well, I've tried to get into One Piece but couldn't, so I would have to give the edge to Naruto, personally.


----------



## Dark World Lightning (Feb 1, 2008)

> You think Blackbeard is a Gary Stu? I don't see it.



Blackbeard used to be a guy no one heard about who killed a crewmember for their devil fruit. This has the effects of two things:

It gives him a connection to the most powerful pirate crew in the series, as in being their enemy.
He gets massive hype for no reason from being associated with one of the most powerful characters in the manga BEFORE his power-up.
He has the most powerful devilfruit shown so far in the series.
Blackbeard entered the Rank of the 7 without a single filthy lucre to his name.

That's not even close enough to establish his credentials as a Gary Stu, even if he was an author surrogate. No one wants to be a fat, swarthy man with snaggleteeth.

But my point is that One Piece lacks so hard in the author surrogate fanwanking department is that you have to *really* reach to find a character that's even remotely approaching Gary Stu status.


----------



## Dark World Lightning (Feb 1, 2008)

Anyway, I appreciate Oda not selling out, but if One Piece was drawn a little (not a lot) more like Bleach or Naruto and the main character acted like Sasuke... how popular do you think the series would be?

It's already an unstoppable juggernaut but OP doesn't do much to pander to the 'angsty Nietzche-wannabe teen' demographic--which you have to admit is a huge segment of manga/anime fans.


----------



## Buggy The Clown (Feb 1, 2008)

^ It would be a lot more popular here but I doubt it would be anymore popular than it is in japan. One Piece came out in 1997 which I don't remember emo or goth being popular then at least where I'm from, and I doubt it was in Japan even though I could be wrong. Naruto seems its designed for newer generation of people so is bleach, (just look at the bleach popularity poll) Whereas One Piece looks like its designed towards a different audience.


----------



## Kage no Yume (Feb 1, 2008)

I read up to the Enies Lobby arc in One Piece...then I stopped.  The main reason for that was the very reason the topic creator started this in the Konoha Library:  The fan bias is strong.  Strong enough to be sickening.

Anyways, both manga have their ups and downs IMO.  However, after reading about 15 or so of the more prevalent series out there I have to admit that neither Naruto nor One Piece really stands out exceptionally from the lot (beyond One Piece's um... 'unique' artwork that is).  There are a number of series that I'd rank higher than both.

If I had to chose between the two though, it would be Naruto.  It's really about personal taste for me, as I would judge both to be about equal regarding the characters, plot, and action.  Different in many aspects (One Piece tends to be more on the big scale, while Naruto stays on a smaller scale), but on the same level in the end.


----------



## mystictrunks (Feb 1, 2008)

Aldric said:


> I agree with most of this post, I always said Sasuke was tailor made to appeal to stupid teens who fantasize about that kind of shallow coolness and hamfisted tragic theme (Sasuke the avenger mirroring their desire for revenge against their parents who didn't buy them the last Pokemon game) and was the very definition of fangirl bait, though... You think Blackbeard is a Gary Stu? I don't see it.



Ironically Sasuke fans also seem to be the people least likely to do anything to change their lives


----------



## Zaleho Tempest (Feb 1, 2008)

i was sure we just had a Naruto vs One Piece thread a little while ago... oh well, threads like this are all opinion anyways, and nobody's opinions on this will change. Naruto will appeal to some people more than One Piece and One Piece will appeal to some people more than Naruto. big deal... its not like whichever one has the most fans is the better series.


----------



## Trias (Feb 1, 2008)

Op sucks, style sucks, villains suck, designs suck, even the Author's name sucks... only thing that sucks about Naruto is uchihas and crappy faces sometimes.


----------



## Supa Swag (Feb 1, 2008)

Trias said:


> Op sucks, style sucks, villains suck, designs suck, even the Author's name sucks... only thing that sucks about Naruto is uchihas and crappy faces sometimes.



Clearly rational.


----------



## 3D Master (Feb 1, 2008)

Naruto. I couldn't get past the second episode of OP.

Of course, Naruto is going down the drain fast, so.


----------



## Na- (Feb 1, 2008)

OP is the best manga i've ever read.
So... logically OP > Naruto.


----------



## FreshMint (Feb 1, 2008)

I like OP better. They're both good. BUt I just thing that OP is more interesting than Naruto. Naruto can still be saved I guess, Don't people wonder about eh 7 Swordsmen of the Mist? The kages of the other countries? It feels empty revolving around Konoha, Suna and Sound. At least put Mist in, you made it look so cool early in the manga. 

Basically, OP right now, I think is better, but Naruto still has a chance to surpass OP (but its quite a long way up IMO)


----------



## maximilyan (Feb 1, 2008)

hmm.. i havnt read or watched one peice.. but all my friends prefer naruto


----------



## iander (Feb 1, 2008)

OP has the scope and epicness but thats about all it has.  I like how Oda is trying to create a fantasy world like Narnia or LOTR but I'd rather it be more way more serious in nature.  Stupid goofiness is funny now and then but its like half of every chapter in OP.  I think the thing that really irritates me is the total randomness of it all and that makes it seem like every thing is plot no jutsu.  How Luffy can take hits from bullets, cannonballs, maces and what not and be totally unharmed but then sometimes he can be cut by a blade or have his jaw broken by a kick.  Not like Naruto is perfect, far from it, but I prefer its style and the greater seriousness of its plot.  More "realistic" as it were.  I like fantasy its just I prefer a more serious kind of fantasy world.


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Feb 1, 2008)

Manufactured seriousness is not the same as genuine drama and seriousness that flows as a natural consequence of the storyline.


----------



## Supa Swag (Feb 1, 2008)

iander said:


> OP has the scope and epicness but thats about all it has.  I like how Oda is trying to create a fantasy world like Narnia or LOTR but I'd rather it be more way more serious in nature.



It simply wouldn't be One Piece if it were more serious or realistic. Making it so would mean changing the art, the character expressions and size of some characters, which would ultimately ruin some the fantasy aspect Oda is aiming for.

I can understand how some people can find it annoying, but it's been like that since day one. It's either for you or it's not.


----------



## Aldric (Feb 1, 2008)

iander said:


> I think the thing that really irritates me is the total randomness of it all and that makes it seem like every thing is plot no jutsu.  How Luffy can take hits from bullets, cannonballs, maces and what not and be totally unharmed but then sometimes he can be cut by a blade or have his jaw broken by a kick.



How is that plot no jutsu? It's the way his powers work. He's invulnerable against blunt trauma damage (due to rubber's cushioning effect) but can be hurt by cutting attacks. And he never got his jaw broken by a kick. There's zero incoherence here.

Good to see you paid attention when you read the manga.


----------



## Agmaster (Feb 1, 2008)

Why you gotta throw out the insult.  Maybe not jaw broken by a kick but Garp's punch DID do damage.  And it's blunt.  And it left a mark.


----------



## LucBu (Feb 1, 2008)

*hmmm*

I don't like OP's storylines. I think it's random to the point of being retarded. Ginatma is a far fuinnier anime. Watch three episodes of gintama and then three episodes of OP. You'll see what I mean. After all OP is just goofy, that is its core. The character abilities in OP are a joke. Naruto has always surpassed it, from better fights, more mature storylines to more character depth. Naruto > One Piece.


----------



## C-Moon (Feb 1, 2008)

3D Master said:


> Naruto. I couldn't get past the second episode of OP.
> 
> Of course, Naruto is going down the drain fast, so.



That's what happens when 4Kids touches _anything_.


----------



## iander (Feb 1, 2008)

HERE
HERE

Yeah its early on but still.  Why should he get so damaged from a kick but not by a mace with spikes.  Last time I checked that would be just as sharp as a blade.  Neither being as penetrative as a bullet but whatever.  That can just under the category of people getting injured by weird stuff and not by others just as powerful for the sake of plot.  Either way it never matters cause a bandage is all thats needed to heal anything.  Some guy could be slashed and stabbed and bleeding for an entire day on the floor and be fine with just a bandage.  Anyway, its not that major a deal though Im sure some OF fans will try to rip me and say I cant read.  Dont get me wrong, I like OP and the world Oda created but I like Naruto better.


----------



## Supa Swag (Feb 1, 2008)

LucBu said:


> I don't like OP's storylines. I think it's random to the point of being retarded. Ginatma is a far fuinnier anime. Watch three episodes of gintama and then three episodes of OP. You'll see what I mean. After all OP is just goofy, that is its core. The character abilities in OP are a joke. Naruto has always surpassed it, from better fights, more mature storylines to more character depth. Naruto > One Piece.



Hilariously wrong post (especially the "random storyline" bit), but the main one is the maturity bit. How in the world does Naruto have a more mature STORYLINE???


----------



## desjr (Feb 1, 2008)

Naruto is better.Nuff said


----------



## Gritz (Feb 1, 2008)

LucBu said:


> I don't like OP's storylines. I think it's random to the point of being retarded. Ginatma is a far fuinnier anime. Watch three episodes of gintama and then three episodes of OP. You'll see what I mean. After all OP is just goofy, that is its core. The character abilities in OP are a joke. Naruto has always surpassed it, from better fights, more mature storylines to more character depth. Naruto > One Piece.



Prepare to be tombstoned for your blasphemy!!  

I like both for different reasons.  

But seriously, I think you just angered somebody. RUN!!


----------



## LucBu (Feb 1, 2008)

*hmmm*



> How in the world does Naruto have a more mature STORYLINE???


Well in Naruto when people are threatened with death their jaws don't drop to the ground and become whiny douchebags. And the sad part is, that is apparantly "funny."



> Hilariously wrong post



It's opinion. If it threatens you its because you can see reason behind my words. Hell, maybe you can see reason at the front.

On a side note, ever watched Gintama?


----------



## Supa Swag (Feb 1, 2008)

LucBu said:


> Well in Naruto when people are threatened with death their jaws don't drop to the ground and become whiny douchebags. And the sad part is, that is apparantly "funny."



You mean like how Naruto nearly died attempting FRS on Kakuzu and everbody gave him shit and he got all goofy?

Or how Jiraiya was facing the (fake) leader of Akatsuki and not only stupidly tripped on his frog, got punched by his own summons?

Or Naruto doing his little intro against Zabuza/Haku and everybody giving him shit?

Or when Naruto ran into Haku's ice mirrors?

They both have their goofy moments in fights. But that's not the point. We're talking STORYLINE, IE plot not atmosphere. And given the atmosphere of OP it's bound to have goofier scenes.







> It's opinion. If it threatens you its because you can see reason behind my words. Hell, maybe you can see reason at the front.
> 
> On a side note, ever watched Gintama?



I was ignoring the Gintama (I've seen scenes and I wouldn't doubt it's funnier/goofier since it looks like a straight up comedy series, but I haven't seen the episodes so I wouldn't know). I was focusing on the storyline being random. That's really not true.


----------



## Furious George (Feb 1, 2008)

LucBu said:


> It's opinion. If it threatens you its because you can see reason behind my words.



LMAO. 

The only thing I saw in your post was badly thought-out OP flames. Do not insult the word "reason" by attaching it to your post.


----------



## Aldric (Feb 1, 2008)

LucBu said:


> Well in Naruto when people are threatened with death their jaws don't drop to the ground and become whiny douchebags.



That's probably because Naruto characters are whiny douchebags 24h a day.


----------



## LucBu (Feb 1, 2008)

*I like this.*



> LMAO.
> 
> The only thing I saw in your post was badly thought-out OP flames. Do not insult the word "reason" by ataching it to your post.


Do not insult the word "LMAO" by attaching it to your post. You don't have a face to laugh with. You have a giant gaping vagina.  But seriously this is between me and Kittylitter. BEsides I really dislike One Piece because of its goffyness. That is where my hate spans from. There is reason to it. I stated it. You might not agree but that's your problem.



> You mean like how Naruto nearly died attempting FRS on Kakuzu and everbody gave him shit and he got all goofy?


No I mean when a captain threatens to kill his entire crew and all they can do is shout "Whaaaaat?" and gape. It rmeidns me of some badly done Bugs Bunny cartoon. Naruto's funny moments work for the most part, at least for me. One Piece is just goofy, at least once again for me. Although yes I think Naruto's funny moments when they tend to bend into goofy I lose interest. I never said Naruto was perfect just better than One Piece.



> IE plot not atmosphere



An objective which is aboiut the search for material possession falls short of it itself when you include aspects of theheart. Naruto wishes to become Hokage which means there's gonna be inevitable blood shed and the aspect of the heart runs through that. I just think looking for treasure is shallow.



> I was ignoring the Gintama (I've seen scenes and I wouldn't doubt it's funnier/goofier since it looks like a straight up comedy series, but I haven't seen the episodes so I wouldn't know).



Gintama can be very goofy. It could also be a little mature and down to earth. It blends comedy in really really well. The most One Piece did in fifty episodes was to crack a slight smile. Gintama usually has me actually burst out laughing at least twice an episode. Gintama is a treat, it does what OP tries to do soo much better. But once again that's my opinion. On a second note, you should try Gintama. You'd probably like it. Give it a few episodes though, like every anime you need to get used to the characters and motifs.



> That's probably because they're whiny douchebags 24h a day.



You say that whilst your sig potrays Luffy being a douchebag in a repeated cycle. Bad move.


----------



## afro luffy (Feb 1, 2008)

OP manga > Naruto Manga
OP Anime > Naruto Anime

As many people have stated already, Naruto has lots of potential but Kishi just doesn't know how to use it.  So many characters and lands to explore yet we see none of it.  One of the big reasons why I liked Naruto in the first part was because there was a lot of focuses on minor characters and not just about naruto and sasuke.  Rock Lee is my all time favorite character in Naruto and once he had the curtains close on him, I closed the curtains on Naruto.  One can only take so much of "SASUKEEEEEE!" and "You are powerless in front of these eyes!"


----------



## Lelouch71 (Feb 1, 2008)

I don't have much of an opinion for OP but I find Naruto more appealing to my taste. I just couldn't get into OP much with it light-hearted story. I mainly like dark stories that doesn't feel happy-go-lucky all the time.


----------



## competitionbros (Feb 1, 2008)

Lelouch71 said:


> I don't have much of an opinion for OP but I find Naruto more appealing to my taste. I just couldn't get into OP much with it light-hearted story. *I mainly like dark stories that doesn't feel happy-go-lucky all the time*.





Then you need to see the Strawhats past and the middle of.......well, _every_ arc.


----------



## LucBu (Feb 1, 2008)

*hmmm*



> Then you need to see the Strawhats past and the middle of.......well, every arc.



Where you will also encounter sodomy, the phrase "One Piece" and "Treasure" which is far more over used than "SASUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUKE!!!!!" and of course several plotholes.



> Rock Lee is my all time favorite character in Naruto and once he had the curtains close on him



Because one character didn't get much of a spotlight? There's gonna be minor characters and major characters, minor will get less of a spotlight. It's incredible to note that Rock Lee got as much spotlight as he did. After all he was a recurring strong character for many an arc in Part One.



> So many characters and lands to explore yet we see none of it.



Oh please, more and more Naruto's world is revealed all the time. For example, Rain country and the Uchiha Hideout.


----------



## Maycara (Feb 1, 2008)

I think what mainly kills OP for people is just some of its setup. My friend once told me this when I tried to get him into OP.....

"Fuck Strech arm strong. Its stupid." "Zoro's cool, but he puts a sword in his mouth, so that makes him gay too." Mind you these are his opinion's not mine. I rather like those too aspects. I think what make's people dislike OP is stuff like that, and Buggy the clone. Its doesnt matter if it has extremely serious momments. People can't take a cast that includes a rubber man, a man who holds a sword in his mouth, a badass cook( i cant find a insult sanji! he is too cool) A chick..who looks like a man sometimes. A jim carry wannabe. A fucking reindeer. A giant talking skelton. And a chick with mutiply arms.

I don't mind it, and I like the concepts its orin. but i can UNDERSTAND why they cant take it seriously. even if it has extremely serious nature to it at times.


----------



## LucBu (Feb 1, 2008)

You put stretch armstrong in any situation and no one will take anything seriously.


----------



## Furious George (Feb 1, 2008)

LucBu said:


> Do not insult the word "LMAO" by attaching it to your post. You don't have a face to laugh with. You have a giant gaping vagina.



I'll just let this part sit here as an evident token that you aren't to be taken seriously.



> But seriously this is between me and Kittylitter.



If you want a private discussion with someone, PM them. Post your foolishness here, and be sure that it will be insulted as such.



> BEsides I really dislike One Piece because of its goffyness. That is where my hate spans from. There is reason to it. I stated it. You might not agree but that's your problem.



Had you *just* said that you don't like OP because of its "goffyness" (again, LMAO) then it would be cool, but.... 

Your original post consisted of you saying that OP's storyline is random to the point of being retarded. This doesn't make much sense, so it does not count as reason. 

Then you make a blanket statement that Naruto surpasses OP in character depth and a more mature storyline and you gave no reason at all for that.... and others are now making you look foolish for that statement, so I'll let them do their job. 

Again, reason had very little to do with your original post.


----------



## Mullet_Power (Feb 1, 2008)

LucBu said:


> Where you will also encounter sodomy, the phrase "One Piece" and "Treasure" which is far more over used than "SASUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUKE!!!!!" and of course several plotholes.



Thanks for proving you have never read a One Piece chapter. The phrase one piece has been mentioned i think twice in the storyline.



Minzara said:


> I think what mainly kills OP for people is just some of its setup. My friend once told me this when I tried to get him into OP.....
> 
> "Fuck Strech arm strong. Its stupid." "Zoro's cool, but he puts a sword in his mouth, so that makes him gay too." Mind you these are his opinion's not mine. I rather like those too aspects. I think what make's people dislike OP is stuff like that, and Buggy the clone. Its doesnt matter if it has extremely serious momments. People can't take a cast that includes a rubber man, a man who holds a sword in his mouth, a badass cook( i cant find a insult sanji! he is too cool) A chick..who looks like a man sometimes. A jim carry wannabe. A fucking reindeer. A giant talking skelton. And a chick with mutiply arms.
> 
> I don't mind it, and I like the concepts its orin. but i can UNDERSTAND why they cant take it seriously. even if it has extremely serious nature to it at times.



This is why OP fans make threads like this, because once you look past the sillyness of the characters you get a way more rewarding story then from most manga.

Also i don't want to discuss the irony of the "a chick who looks like a man" statement when comparing one piece and naruto...


----------



## competitionbros (Feb 1, 2008)

LucBu said:


> Where you will also encounter sodomy, the phrase "One Piece" and "Treasure" which is far more over used than "SASUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUKE!!!!!" and of course several plotholes.




The phrase "One Piece" has been said maybe 5 times over the course of the entire manga; treasure is said about 3 times every arc by Nami, who is treasure hungry.............and plot holes, you'll have to enlighten me on that one since you seemt o know more about OP than me.


----------



## iander (Feb 1, 2008)

I think by treasure he might have meant in every arc when someone says this is my treasure.  I wont let you harm my treasure etc.


----------



## LucBu (Feb 1, 2008)

*hmmm*



> I'll just let this part sit here as an evident token that you aren't to be taken seriously.



Phew... 





> Post your foolishness here, and be sure that it will be insulted as such.


It's almost as if you just rebuked me by saying "insulting doesn't make you clever" and then you did it. Hmmm... That makes you a hypocrit.

What I really meant by this is between Kittylitter and me was your posts are just.... silly. You should stay out of it.



> and plot holes, you'll have to enlighten me on that one since you seemt o know more about OP than me.



Glance back over the last two or three pages other people have pointed them out. Particularly mace and foot arguement. So yeah... go enlighten yourself.



> The phrase "One Piece" has been said maybe 10 times over the course of the entire manga; treasure is said about 3 times every arc by Nami, who is treasure hungry



That's an understatement. 





> I think by treasure he might have meant in every arc when someone says this is my treasure. I wont let you harm my treasure etc.


A big part of it.

Besides you honestly think things like "You are powerless in front of these eyes!" occurs more than twice an arc in Naruto? 



> Thanks for proving you have never read a One Piece chapter.


 No problem. I didn't. I watched the anime for fifty episodes.


----------



## jinjue (Feb 1, 2008)

> Basically, I'm a better artist than Oda, and I'm not even boasting.


Prove it.

Also, I'm really surprised that no one else bothered to demand proof of this statement yet. It's a pretty audacious claim, regardless of one's personal feelings ? or the lack of them thereof ? for _One Piece_.


----------



## Mullet_Power (Feb 1, 2008)

LucBu said:


> No problem. I didn't. I watched the anime for fifty episodes.



I doubt even that


----------



## Agmaster (Feb 1, 2008)

I now know what it feels like to go what you ask for and no longer want it.


----------



## LucBu (Feb 1, 2008)

> I doubt even that



An assumption because your arguement ran dry? Well good sir! It appears your spine has dislocated forcing your head downwards and for your face to potrude upwards into your rectum.




> Prove it.
> 
> Also, I'm really surprised that no one else bothered to demand proof of this statement yet. It's a pretty audacious claim, regardless of one's personal feelings – or the lack of them thereof – for One Piece.


I believe One Piece's style was actually mimiced by another manga artist... can't rmemebr which one it was... but it was about a man who had the nickname salamander.


----------



## Agmaster (Feb 1, 2008)

jinjue said:


> Prove it.
> 
> Also, I'm really surprised that no one else bothered to demand proof of this statement yet. It's a pretty audacious claim, regardless of one's personal feelings ? or the lack of them thereof ? for _One Piece_.



I did.  It got lost in the fuck of this cluster.


----------



## Furious George (Feb 1, 2008)

LucBu said:


> It's almost as if you just rebuked me by saying "insulting doesn't make you clever" and then you did it.



I said you are not to be taken seriously and you took it as an insult. That wasn't my intention when I said it. You are already in the process of being insulted and I decided to just let others do it for me. 



> Hmmm... That makes you a hypocrit.



No, it doesn't. 



> What I really meant by this is between Kittylitter and me



I knew exactly what you meant. I just didn't give a shit and responded anyway. 



> was your posts are just.... silly.



 



> You should stay out of it.



Hmmmm.... no. I'll stick around.


----------



## F0rTh3W1n (Feb 1, 2008)

Part 1 Naruto was actually quite good, especially Zabuza arc and chunin exam, those chapter make me want more Naruto. But now its becoming annoying, the plot is revolving around Uchiha and Naruto keeps chasing Sasuke. While Naruto acts stupid and dissapoints everybody. I have never read a manga where a lead character is nothing more but shit.

So i would say right now i look more forward in reading/watching One Piece each week, than Naruto.


----------



## afro luffy (Feb 1, 2008)

LucBu said:


> Where you will also encounter sodomy, the phrase "One Piece" and "Treasure" which is far more over used than "SASUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUKE!!!!!" and of course several plotholes.



Oh please, if you want to say that then how many times have we seen "ZOMG! A GENGUTSU!!!"  "KAGE BUNSHIN NO JUTSU!!!" We've heard those in almost every ep.



LucBu said:


> Oh please, more and more Naruto's world is revealed all the time. For example, Rain country and the Uchiha Hideout.



OH WOW!!!! Rain country and Uchiha Hideout!!! Now that's revealing SOOOO much about naruto now.


----------



## LucBu (Feb 1, 2008)

> I said you are not to be taken seriously and you took it as an insult. That wasn't my intention when I said it.


No? You're intention to begin with was to assert yourself my insulting me. When I returned the insult you came out saying I shouldn't be taken seriously. Your first post contained no reasons just insults and opinion. I've given evidence. Take it to the next level you.



> No, it doesn't.



Depends if your comment was actually linked to the arguement. Why shouldn't I be taken seriously? Because I gave my honest opinion? It's what you're doing. Because I insulted you? It's what you're doing. If I can't be taken seriously then niether should you.

If your comment was in repkly to my insult then yes, you are a hypocrit. And now you're a hypocrit in denial.



> I knew exactly what you meant. I just didn't give a shit and responded anyway.



I'll answer that with this; 





> was your posts are just.... silly.



I think you good sir should stop wasting yor time because it's either that or you're trying to raise your post count.


----------



## Maycara (Feb 1, 2008)

Mullet_Power said:


> This is why OP fans make threads like this, because once you look past the sillyness of the characters you get a way more rewarding story then from most manga.
> 
> Also i don't want to discuss the irony of the "a chick who looks like a man" statement when comparing one piece and naruto...



You kind of ignore my post. I love OP, i pretty much stated I like it. I was just stating I understand why people cant watch it. And no, take Zelda Windwaker for instance...good game...but it suck imo cause i couldnt stand the art, and design. Art and Design are just as important as anything else. Imagine look at a piece of shit for 300+ episodes? You wont enjoy I am sure. Not saying OP art, and design is shit, Like I said I like it. But what I am saying is, if you dont enjoy looking at something, no matter what the story is, its not easy get pass. More often then not its impossible.


----------



## LucBu (Feb 1, 2008)

> Oh please, if you want to say that then how many times have we seen "ZOMG! A GENGUTSU!!!" "KAGE BUNSHIN NO JUTSU!!!" We've heard those in almost every ep.



No we haven't. And those techniques reflect a fighter's fighting style.It's like me pointing otu repetitiveness everytime Luffy extends a limb.



> OH WOW!!!! Rain country and Uchiha Hideout!!! Now that's revealing SOOOO much about naruto now.



Lol One Piece is a world of infite bullshit. Any writer can make a world where you cna say"and aroudn the next bend is bunny land where bunnys sodomise each other constantly.... and around the enxt be-" You understand?


----------



## afro luffy (Feb 1, 2008)

LucBu said:


> No we haven't. And those techniques reflect a fighter's fighting style.It's like me pointing otu repetitiveness everytime Luffy extends a limb.



And "One Piece" is the title of the anime, and pirates are after "treasures", same difference.



LucBu said:


> Lol One Piece is a world of infite bullshit. Any writer can make a world where you cna say"and aroudn the next bend is bunny land where bunnys sodomise each other constantly.... and around the enxt be-" You understand?



Well, that's still better than revealing so much at the beginning and then leaving everything hanging on a cliffhanger.


----------



## competitionbros (Feb 1, 2008)

LucBu said:


> Lol One Piece is a world of infite bullshit. Any writer can make a world where you cna say"and aroudn the next bend is bunny land where bunnys sodomise each other constantly.... and around the enxt be-" You understand?





You've seen 50 episodes (what is that, Lougetown?), yet you say "infinite bullshit"? You haven't even seen an eighth of One Piece so how can you even say that?


I've read all of Naruto and and seen all the episodes before Shippuden 14 and, no offense, but that is the world of infinite bullshit. It's an infinite loop of "chase sasuke-----> find sasuke---->lose to sasuke---->sasuke tries to get his revenge------->repeat" that's the whole plot and every arc in between is just "in there".


----------



## LucBu (Feb 1, 2008)

*hmm*



> Well, that's still better than revealing so much at the beginning and then leaving everything hanging on a cliffhanger.


No. No it isn't. Because with a concept like that is childish its like a fucking rainbow road that never ever stops. It loses its interest quickly if you can see the concept. The world of One Piece is an infinite turd. Now writing geography into a world is far more difficult to do. In addition to that Kishimoto has done well in designing the different areas and can still expand his world by detailign enw locations. Yeah he is eventually restricted but every genuine world is. The world isn't a fucking RAINBOW ROAD.



> And "One Piece" is the title of the anime, and pirates are after "treasures", same difference.



Same can be said for recurring themes in Naruto. It drops the arguements face to face. It is as good an equaliser as death.



> You haven't even seen an eighth of One Piece so how can you even say that?



Lol. You see there. You've admitted it. I have seen an eight of One Piece and I'm already tired of the rainbow road that never fucking ends.

And as for the rivalry as pect to anruto. Fuckign Lol. Of course its storyline is going to revolve aorund that. But that's what a lot fo fans love. In addition the story arcs aren't just inserted they amount to the overall plot well. One Pice... lol. There are plenty of arcs you could just remove and forget ever happened and it wouldn't didn;t the story of the rainbow road. One Piece isn't a flow liek Naruto, One Piece is a fucking duck pond.


----------



## Furious George (Feb 1, 2008)

LucBu said:


> No? You're intention to begin with was to assert yourself my insulting me.



Nice assumption. And if you slow down when you type there won't be so many typos and grammar errors. 



> When I returned the insult you came out saying I shouldn't be taken seriously.



I'll clarify what I meant when I said that. Its not so much the fact that you insulted me that was evidence that you shouldn't be taken seriously... its the way you attempted to do it. Saying someone has a vagina for a mouth? This isn't elementary school, sport. 



> Your first post contained no reasons just insults and opinion.



Then again, I never claimed my first post was to give reasons. It was only to point out that your post had no reasons.



> I've given evidence. Take it to the next level you.



Give evidence to what? I gave evidence on why your first post contained no reasons, so what are you asking evidence for right now? Am I to give evidence on why you aren't to be taken seriously? Here:

- can't type for shit. 
- thinks saying someone has a vagina for a mouth will compensate for the fact that he got in over his head on an internet forum... and that he can't type for shit. 




> Depends if your comment was actually linked to the arguement. Why shouldn't I be taken seriously?



Vagina jokes. 



> Because I gave my honest opinion? It's what you're doing. Because I insulted you? It's what you're doing. If I can't be taken seriously then niether should you.



I don't make vagina jokes.



> If your comment was in repkly to my insult then yes, you are a hypocrit. And now you're a hypocrit in denial.



Like I said... nope.



> I think you good sir should stop wasting yor time because it's either that or you're trying to raise your post count.



Its the former. I usually don't come on Naruto forums unless I have time to waste.


----------



## Maycara (Feb 1, 2008)

competitionbros said:


> You've seen 50 episodes (what is that, Lougetown?), yet you say "infinite bullshit"? You haven't even seen an eighth of One Piece so how can you even say that?
> 
> 
> I've read all of Naruto and and seen all the episodes before Shippuden 14 and, no offense, but that is the world of infinite bullshit. *It's an infinite loop of "chase sasuke-----> find sasuke---->lose to sasuke---->sasuke tries to get his revenge------->repeat" that's the whole plot and every arc in between is just "in there".*



Again..there about equal for me...but dude that same logic can be use for one piece....

It's an infinite loop of "chase One piece-----> find a idea where one piece is---->lose chace to get One Piece---->go after one piece some more------->repeat" that's the whole plot and every arc in between is just "in there".

Its the same for both. The main goals are the main goals, and then theres everything inbetween.


----------



## competitionbros (Feb 1, 2008)

Minzara said:


> Again..there about equal for me...but dude that same logic can be use for one piece....
> 
> It's an infinite loop of "chase One piece-----> find a idea where one piece is---->lose chace to get One Piece---->go after one piece some more------->repeat" that's the whole plot and every arc in between is just "in there".




They have a _vague_ idea of where OP is and that's at the end of the grandline, it's been like that for a while and they've never "lost" the chance to get One Piece, once they get to the end of the grandline and if it's not there _then_ they lost their chance.


----------



## Maycara (Feb 1, 2008)

Cyckness said:


> Nice assumption. And if you slow down when you type there won't be so many typos and grammar errors.
> 
> - can't type for shit.
> - thinks saying someone has a vagina for a mouth will compensate for the fact that he got in over his head on an internet forum... and that he can't type for shit.



I am not defending the guy...but pointing out grammar as a debate winner is silly. Grammar has nothing to do with actual points.



competitionbros said:


> They have a _vague_ idea of where OP is and that's at the end of the grandline, it's been like that for a while and they've never "lost" the chance to get One Piece, once they get to the end of the grandline and if it's not there _then_ they lost their chance.



Your weren't getting my point, the lossing the Op was false and so forth just trying to copy your post some. But anyway. Like I said you MISSED THE POINT. OP can be summed up just like Naruto can. For there main goals. But those are not the meat of each story...


----------



## LucBu (Feb 1, 2008)

Cyckness said:


> Nice assumption. And if you slow down when you type there won't be so many typos and grammar errors.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Furious George (Feb 1, 2008)

Minzara said:


> I am not defending the guy...but pointing out grammar as a debate winner is silly. Grammar has nothing to do with actual points.



You misunderstand, Minzara. This isn't a debate to begin with. This is me having fun with a kid who does not know the definition of the word "reason" and thinks Vagina jokes are cool. Pointing out his terrible grammar errors is fair game.


----------



## Maycara (Feb 1, 2008)

Cyckness said:


> You misunderstand, Minzara. This isn't a debate to begin with. This is me having fun with a kid who does not know the definition of the word "reason" and thinks Vagina jokes are cool. Pointing out his terrible grammar errors is fair game.



*shurgs* whatever weapon you so chose. Just as long as it isn't against me.


----------



## LucBu (Feb 1, 2008)

> This is me having fun with a kid who does not know the definition of the word "reason" and thinks Vagina jokes are cool. Pointing out his terrible grammar errors is fair game.



And you just proved my point again. You're insulting me. I thought you were above downgrade tactics like vagina jokes? 

I've also given plenty of reasons. Ironically, so too, have other people.

You can't come up with shit against my points. You've lost. Pack your bags and get back on your rainbow road.


----------



## competitionbros (Feb 1, 2008)

LucBu said:


> . In addition the story arcs aren't just inserted they amount to the overall plot well. One Pice... lol. There are plenty of arcs you could just remove and forget ever happened and it wouldn't didn;t the story of the rainbow road.





Like what arcs? Laboon? Lougetown? The only one that could've done without is Foxy Back.


----------



## LucBu (Feb 1, 2008)

Think a little harder. Ergh, tomorrow I'll see what other points you've come up with. One Piece is a mess. But seriously it's been fun.

Just think though, how much ability does it take to come up with One Piece? The concepts, the storylines, the childish gags, motifs and abilities which can't be called badass even if you're high. Naruto just has much more to give. It's more unique, the fights are far better, and just better grade of shonen in general. But like I said in the beginning, that is my opinion. I just can't take OP seriously. I'm sorry but that's how I feel.


----------



## Vangelis (Feb 1, 2008)

I dont really know, ive never paid attention to the OP series. Honestly the only anime or Manga ive ever watched or read was Naruto and Dragonball Z. So i cant answer, though its hard to imagine a manga better than Naruto.


----------



## Furious George (Feb 1, 2008)

LucBu said:


> You can't come up with shit against my points. You've lost.



Who said I was coming up against your points? What you fail to understand (and stubborness and the shame that comes with being made to look like a jackass will probably keep the understanding from you) is that you lost the argument the moment you said I had a vagina for a mouth. That's when I gave up on you and decided to just string you along for as long as I could. 



> Pack your bags and get back on your rainbow road.



Ugh. LucBu, I'm not saying this out of insult, but sincere honesty... Wit and clver insults is not your thing.


----------



## competitionbros (Feb 1, 2008)

LucBu said:


> Think a little harder. Ergh, tomorrow I'll see what other points you've come up with. One Piece is a mess. But seriously it's been fun.
> 
> *Just think though, how much ability does it take to come up with One Piece? The concepts, the storylines, the childish gags, motifs and abilities which can't be called badass even if you're high.* Naruto just has much more to give. It's more unique, the fights are far better, and just better grade of shonen in general. But like I said in the beginning, that is my opinion. I just can't take OP seriously. I'm sorry but that's how I feel.





The same can be said for Naruto, how long does it take to come up with " An eye that creates illusions"?


----------



## Maycara (Feb 1, 2008)

Am I the only one that thinks Sasuke and Naruto might be gay for eachother?  

Lol On a serious note. I think the main reason is not the story, or the power ups, or anything. The main reason why alot of people(in america) chose Naruto over OP. Is the design like I said before. Who would want to look a piece of shit for 300+ episodes? AGAIN I love OP designs, and I do not think they are a piece of shit. But what I am saying is, its hard to watch something when you can't stand looking at it. And alot of people when they see OP design, it looks like a piece of poo to them....and rubber piece of poo, but a poo none the less. O.o Okay forget the rubber part...


----------



## Dark World Lightning (Feb 1, 2008)

> But what I am saying is, its hard to watch something when you can't stand looking at it. And alot of people when they see OP design, it looks like a piece of poo to them....and rubber piece of poo, but a poo none the less. O.o Okay forget the rubber part...



And people like them are killing the entertainment industry.

This is why there's been an overemphasis on 'cool' graphics and manufactured 'cool' in American cinema and videogames.

It makes you wonder how the hell comic books and movies got their start in this country in the first place.


----------



## Maycara (Feb 1, 2008)

Dark World Lightning said:


> And people like them are killing the entertainment industry.
> 
> This is why there's been an overemphasis on 'cool' graphics and manufactured 'cool' in American cinema and videogames.
> 
> It makes you wonder how the hell comic books and movies got their start in this country in the first place.



I agree to some extent. But I slightly understand the design hate for OP. I kind of dislike designs like Buggy, and Franky. It really is hard to get into a senstive moment with those types of characters. Even Brooke, as much as I like him is hard to take seriously sometimes. I love the fact Oda is orin, but I sometimes think he went in the wrong direction for orin. Don't get me wrong either, I aint a fan of designs Like Sai, Deidara, Haku, and Sasuke at times. But it a little easier to get into a sentivie moment with a character like Sasuke design, then a character Like Arlong design. Or Ussop for that matter...the I think the long nose is a great shout out to picchno..the whole liar thing. I will have to say Ussop VS Luffy is my fav moment in the manga though. Like I said, I love OP. But I don't think people hating OP designs are the reason for the fall of the entertainment industry.....thats a little extreme.


----------



## Supa Swag (Feb 1, 2008)

Minzara said:


> You kind of ignore my post. I love OP, i pretty much stated I like it. I was just stating I understand why people cant watch it. And no, take Zelda Windwaker for instance...good game...but it suck imo cause i couldnt stand the art, and design.



I have to do a little flashback:

I remember waiting for Zelda WW when I saw the clip of Link and Ganondorf fighting in great looking graphics. I could hardly wait and when the time came the game turned into this...retarded cartoon. I was BEYOND PISSED. I decided to play it anyway because it's Zelda. The very first thing that jumps out when I'm playing through the first few hours were the expressions. I hadn't really seen many games that showed them with such precision and detail . Then I noticed how smooth everything ran, the water, the wind...and before I knew it I was blown away by WW's graphics. Besides Twilight Princess, WW is easily the best looking Zelda game and is up there with Resident Evil 4 as the best looking Gamecube game.

I kinda went throught the same thing as OP. I read because it was pretty popular, but never expected to seriously get into it because of the art. Then I saw the detail in expression, the landscape, how character design could tell you everything about a character, and soon enough the art became one of the main reasons I enjoy OP so much.


----------



## Maycara (Feb 1, 2008)

Kitty Litter said:


> I have to do a little flashback:
> 
> I remember waiting for Zelda WW when I saw the clip of Link and Ganondorf fighting in great looking graphics. I could hardly wait and when the time came the game turned into this...retarded cartoon. I was BEYOND PISSED. I decided to play it anyway because it's Zelda. The very first thing that jumps out when I'm playing through the first few hours were the expressions. I hadn't really seen many games that showed them with such precision and detail . Then I noticed how smooth everything ran, the water, the wind...and before I knew it I was blown away by WW's graphics. Besides Twilight Princess, WW is easily the best looking Zelda game and is up there with Resident Evil 4 as the best looking Gamecube game.
> 
> I kinda went throught the same thing as OP. I read because it was pretty popular, but never expected to seriously get into it because of the art. Then I saw the detail in expression, the landscape, how character design could tell you everything about a character, and soon enough the art became one of the main reasons I enjoy OP so much.



Again, you miss my point. Yes it's possible to get past the designs. But from personal experience, its not always so. Yet it looked nice(WW) But Link looked stupid, and when the blew up in purple smoke when you killed them, I about yelled at my TV screen. I am just saying sometimes its not that easy to keep looking at a piece of shit for 300+ episodes, or 40+ hours. Mind you some might be able to stomach it because it will have nuts, and is sometime's green, and different. But in the end to some its still a giant turd. I would like to restate again I like OP art, and design most of the time. But I COMPELTELY  UNDERSTAND why some people can't get past that fact.


----------



## souljah88 (Feb 1, 2008)

who hates naruto?? naruto owns!


----------



## Supa Swag (Feb 1, 2008)

Minzara said:


> Again, you miss my point. Yes it's possible to get past the designs. But from personal experience, its not always so. Yet it looked nice(WW) But Link looked stupid, and when the blew up in purple smoke when you killed them, I about yelled at my TV screen. I am just saying sometimes its not that easy to keep looking at a piece of shit for 300+ episodes, or 40+ hours. Mind you some might be able to stomach it because it will have nuts, and is sometime's green, and different. But in the end to some its still a giant turd. I would like to restate again I like OP art, and design most of the time. But I COMPELTELY  UNDERSTAND why some people can't get past that fact.



I wasnt trying to prove a point. I was just reminiscing.


----------



## Maycara (Feb 1, 2008)

Kitty Litter said:


> I wasnt trying to prove a point. I was just reminiscing.



NVM then


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Feb 1, 2008)

OT but what tha hell was up with so many gotten changed nicks to Uchiha ha ha?


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 1, 2008)

Kitty Litter said:


> Hilariously wrong post (especially the "random storyline" bit), but the main one is the maturity bit. How in the world does Naruto have a more mature STORYLINE???



Because Naruto is filled with angst and melodrama. Also it's a world of ninja and the main hero has a demon inside him that makes the Narutoverse seem dark with all the demons, blood, death, and gore running around.

Yup One Piece could NEVER be that dark.


----------



## Mullet_Power (Feb 1, 2008)

LucBu said:


> An assumption because your arguement ran dry? Well good sir! It appears your spine has dislocated forcing your head downwards and for your face to potrude upwards into your rectum.



No my argument has not run dry because i decided not to reply to your shitty post. A post that was easily debunked by the fact you have not seen enough episodes of One Piece to make claims about the dialog that the characters use. If you want to see my arguments for way One Piece is better than naruto i will suggest my longer posts that are directed towards people who aren't mentally retarded.

youtube.com

youtube.com
youtube.com



Minzara said:


> You kind of ignore my post. I love OP, i pretty much stated I like it. I was just stating I understand why people cant watch it. And no, take Zelda Windwaker for instance...good game...but it suck imo cause i couldnt stand the art, and design. Art and Design are just as important as anything else. Imagine look at a piece of shit for 300+ episodes? You wont enjoy I am sure. Not saying OP art, and design is shit, Like I said I like it. But what I am saying is, if you dont enjoy looking at something, no matter what the story is, its not easy get pass. More often then not its impossible.



No i wasn't trashing you or anything i was just stating the reason we post in here is to try and convince people like your friend that the designs aren't as bad as people initially think. 

I thought holding a sword in you mouth was stupid and that stretching was  a lame ability but as i continued to watch the series i completely forgot about that, and was drawn in by the story. 

Then a while after that i would not want these characters any other way, and I now think that having a sword in your mouth or being able to stretch are the 2 coolest things ever. 

But i guess i am not as superficial as most and if the story was as good as OP's I could care less if every character was a cube and the only way to tell them apart was by color.

That said WW = best zelda graphics ever, if you can't see that there is no helping you .

BTW what the hell is going on with the boards O_O


----------



## silvr (Feb 1, 2008)

Never read OP, i find the art disgusting. And pardon me for the stupid statement, but... ELASTIC POWERS FTW!? 

fail.

At least for me.

If you compared Naruto to 666 Satan, that would be hard to choose from. But since its OP or Naruto, (biased ofc) i choose Naruto.


----------



## Maycara (Feb 1, 2008)

Mullet_Power said:


> That said WW = best zelda graphics ever, if you can't see that there is no helping you .



Grahpics may be good...designs suck though....


----------



## Mullet_Power (Feb 1, 2008)

Minzara said:


> Grahpics may be good...designs suck though....



There is no difference between graphics and design they are one in the same, WW = best designs ever.


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Feb 1, 2008)

silvr said:


> Never read OP, i find the art disgusting. And pardon me for the stupid statement, but... ELASTIC POWERS FTW!?
> 
> fail.
> 
> ...



This is the most intelligent post that I have read all day.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 1, 2008)

It's funny how most of the posts in this thread equate to

"I only watched one episode of One Piece and dropped it cause I find it less mature than Naruto"

Honestly you could just switch it around and say the same thing about Naruto too. Heck it'd probably make a lot more sense then too. I mean I know some people just can't wait to see Naruto become Sasuke's bitch and have kinky yaoi sex with each other, but seriously I don't see how that makes the Naruto series more mature than One Piece.


----------



## Maycara (Feb 1, 2008)

Mullet_Power said:


> There is no difference between graphics and design they are one in the same, WW = best designs ever.



Oh...yes there is...Graphics are the detail of things, and the overall detail of the background. DESIGN, is the DESIGN of the characters. Two different things my friend.

Graphics:
   1.
         1. (used with a sing. verb) The making of drawings in accordance with the rules of mathematics, as in engineering or architecture.
         2. (used with a pl. verb) Calculations, as of structural stress, from such drawings.
   2. (used with a sing. or pl. verb) See graphic arts (sense 2).
   3. Computer Science.
         1. (used with a sing. or pl. verb) The pictorial representation and manipulation of data, as used in computer-aided design and manufacture, in typesetting and the graphic arts, and in educational and recreational programs.
         2. (used with a sing. verb) The process by which a computer displays data pictorially.

Design:
   1.
         1. To conceive or fashion in the mind; invent: design a good excuse for not attending the conference.
         2. To formulate a plan for; devise: designed a marketing strategy for the new product.
   2. To plan out in systematic, usually graphic form: design a building; design a computer program.
   3. To create or contrive for a particular purpose or effect: a game designed to appeal to all ages.
   4. To have as a goal or purpose; intend.
   5. To create or execute in an artistic or highly skilled manner.


----------



## FreshMint (Feb 1, 2008)

Ok guys...If youve barely watched one of the 2 mangas. Then don't say anything like, OP sucks or Naruto sucks. If you don't know the story, how would you know it sucks? THrough other's opinion? That's just BS


----------



## Fang (Feb 1, 2008)

Why the hell is this thread still in the Konoha Library? This should be in the Library - Floor 2 sub-forum.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 1, 2008)

If anything this thread only proves to me more that the NaruTards that hate on One Piece don't even know anything about it.

What gets me is that the people who trash Naruto in this thread have actually read it and criticize it because it's actually bad, and yet the Naruto fans think it's some big insult to trashtalk Naruto while in the same breath  they think it's alright to trash One Piece after watching one episode or reading one chapter and then dropping it?

I mean seriously at least the people who support One Piece in this thread actually KNOW the other series being discussed in this thread. I know that some of the Naruto fans in here have read through a good majority of the series and then dropped it cause it wasn't their thing. That's fine. As for those of you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Why don't you actually try reading the series before you judge? I know it doesn't have bishounen's or mansex like Naruto does, but heck at least then you lot could put up a coherent argument.


----------



## jinjue (Feb 1, 2008)

*Agmaster*, I actually saw your reply to *Blue* that called her out for hubris and flamebaiting, though I didn't think that you specifically asked for proof. In any case I concede; the spirit and intent of your post and mine were the same, even if the exact verbiage was different.

Also on a completely off topic note, MSI = win.


----------



## iander (Feb 1, 2008)

Or it might suggest that for many people, OP is just so bad that they cannot read past the initial chapters while Naruto is easier to get into and so even Naruto haters or those that think its not that good still keep reading.  Perhaps that means that Naruto is in fact the better series.  Thats not what I exactly believe im just throwing it out there as a point to all those who think that most naruto fans have never read OP.

My honest opinion is that OP just appeals to a much more select audience, at least outside of japan , and so many people will refuse to read a significant amount of it before stopping.  Thus, the audience it does appeal to of course will favor it over Naruto.  This is why I think that many fans of both OP and Naruto prefer OP and many fans of strictly Naruto have not read much of OP.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 1, 2008)

iander said:


> Or it might suggest that for many people, OP is just so bad that they cannot read past the initial chapters while Naruto is easier to get into and so even Naruto haters or those that think its not that good still keep reading.  Perhaps that means that Naruto is in fact the better series.



Because one chapter or one episode is enough to have an accurate opinion on the entire series as a whole?


----------



## Maycara (Feb 1, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Because one chapter or one episode is enough to have an accurate opinion on the entire series as a whole?



Some think so...personally i loved both OP and naruto from the start


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Feb 1, 2008)

iander said:


> Or it might suggest that for many people, OP is just so bad that they cannot read past the initial chapters while Naruto is easier to get into and so even Naruto haters or those that think its not that good still keep reading.  Perhaps that means that Naruto is in fact the better series.  Thats not what I exactly believe im just throwing it out there as a point to all those who think that most naruto fans have never read OP.
> 
> My honest opinion is that OP just appeals to a much more select audience, at least outside of japan , and so many people will refuse to read a significant amount of it before stopping.  Thus, the audience it does appeal to of course will favor it over Naruto.  This is why I think that many fans of both OP and Naruto prefer OP and many fans of strictly Naruto have not read much of OP.



American Idol is the highest rated show on TV. Does that automatically make it the best show. It's called appealing to the lowest common denominator.

If America had gotten a better One Piece dub the situation would be a lot different right now. It's going to be interesting to see if there's a drop off in Naruto popularity now that the dreaded fillers have arrived.


----------



## Furious George (Feb 1, 2008)

Like someone just mentioned, The 4kids version of One Piece had a lot to do with it not catching on as quickly as Naruto did Stateside. Funimation (the new dub guys for the series) are doing the best that they can to put OP back on the map, but 4kids made a royal fuck-up of things already... the damage is done.


----------



## iander (Feb 1, 2008)

No but people can be turned off by what they see in the first few chapters or episodes that they wont even bother to watch anymore.  Not saying that you can get enough about a series to judge from that.  Im saying if that is such a significant phenomenon perhaps their is a deeper meaning to it.  Im suggesting is that OP might just appeal to a more select or specific audience.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 1, 2008)

Minzara said:


> Some think so...personally i loved both OP and naruto from the start



I just don't get that... I think it's stupid to be honest to drop something after a single chapter or episode.


----------



## Furious George (Feb 1, 2008)

*Random question:* I know that Kishimoto has once said that he was an OP fan, but does anyone know if Oda has ever made a comment on the Naruto series? I am very interested in what he said if he did.


----------



## DeathandDecay (Feb 1, 2008)

Anime wise i can see naruto being more appealing. ex the giant naruto phase the us is going through right now. But manga wise i love op, such a great plot and great character designs


----------



## Ark 2.0 (Feb 1, 2008)

argh...i wonder what 4kids will do in part 2..argh


----------



## Maycara (Feb 1, 2008)

Aethos said:


> I just don't get that... I think it's stupid to be honest to drop something after a single chapter or episode.



People don't have time. Busy life's. They check it once to see if they like it, nothing appeals they move on.


----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Feb 1, 2008)

> But it a little easier to get into a sentivie moment with a character like Sasuke design, then a character Like Arlong design.


This is kinda minor and all, but you're not supposed to care about Arlong aside from him getting his ass kicked for being a complete bastard for what he did to Nami and Cocoyashi Village. That's quite a ways different from Sasuke, who we're supposed to care about because of his brother killing his family and all(something that's really hard to do with his cold, aloof douchebag attitude).


----------



## Ark 2.0 (Feb 1, 2008)

LucBu said:


> Lol One Piece is a world of infite bullshit. Any writer can make a world where you cna say"and aroudn the next bend is bunny land where bunnys sodomise each other constantly.... and around the enxt be-" You understand?




argh..at least we have diferent backgrounds...argh


----------



## Maycara (Feb 1, 2008)

ShadowReplication1480 said:


> This is kinda minor and all, but you're not supposed to care about Arlong aside from him getting his ass kicked for being a complete bastard for what he did to Nami and Cocoyashi Village. That's quite a ways different from Sasuke, who we're supposed to care about because of his brother killing his family and all(something that's really hard to do with his cold, aloof douchebag attitude).



totally missed my point..im saying its hard to feel sentimenal for ANY character u dislike the design for....


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Feb 1, 2008)

Minzara said:


> totally missed my point..im saying its hard to feel sentimenal for ANY character u dislike the design for....



I guess that's understandable, but I don't think one should be let themselves be totally influenced by aesthetic appeal in that regards...

I mean look at all the unwarranted sympathy and sentimentality for characters like Itachi, Hidan, Deidara, and the like have because they are viewed typically as aesthetically appealing. They're clearly evil.

Jaguar D. Saulo doesn't exactly have an appealing design, but I am able to feel some sentimentality for his character. Tom definitely doesn't have an appealing design, but I had some sentimentality for the character. With the personalities they had, it was hard not to have some sort of sentimentality towards them.


----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Feb 1, 2008)

Your point still makes no sense with the characters you mentioned. Arlong's a cocky, arrogant bastard fishman and his design mirrors it. How that's supposed to be compared to Sasuke's fruity time-skip design makes no sense at all.


----------



## Buggy The Clown (Feb 1, 2008)

Arlong is more of a Hidan character with the personality but the way Hidan is designed hes more likable because of his appearance. One Piece isn't suppose to look like that though their are no real dark characters unless you consider Lucci one.


----------



## Maycara (Feb 1, 2008)

ShadowReplication1480 said:


> Your point still makes no sense with the characters you mentioned. Arlong's a cocky, arrogant bastard fishman and his design mirrors it. How that's supposed to be compared to Sasuke's fruity time-skip design makes no sense at all.



Thats because your thinking about the thing. I was just making design opinions, not character. I can give others if you like.


Franky,Chopper(reindeer),Brooke's,Ussops. Just from the main cast. While I dont mind any of these designs except for Ussops and Franky. Alot of people do. And it can make it really hard to relate, or feel feelings for said characters. Again Only ones I hate, will the main one i really dislike is Frankys. Thats my point. I was just using Arlong design as example, NOT his character...



Seto Kaiba said:


> I guess that's understandable, but I don't think one should be let themselves be totally influenced by aesthetic appeal in that regards...
> 
> I mean look at all the unwarranted sympathy and sentimentality for characters like Itachi, Hidan, Deidara, and the like have because they are viewed typically as aesthetically appealing. They're clearly evil.
> 
> Jaguar D. Saulo doesn't exactly have an appealing design, but I am able to feel some sentimentality for his character. Tom definitely doesn't have an appealing design, but I had some sentimentality for the character. With the personalities they had, it was hard not to have some sort of sentimentality towards them.



I have no sympanhpy for Hidan or any bad guy in Naruto. And Hidan is my fav char in Naruto, and third fav char ever. Because they derseved what they got.

TO be honest I felt nothing for that giant, nor did I for Tom. Which is wierd cause I've felt something for Ussop with him VS luffy. I dont know those characters just didnt appeal to me.



Buggy The Clown said:


> Arlong is more of a Hidan character with the personality but the way Hidan is designed hes more likable because of his appearance. One Piece isn't suppose to look like that though their are no real dark characters unless you consider Lucci one.



They don't seem simalar to me. or maybe its just Arlong design who knows. All I know is Arlong annoyed me. Hidan did not.


----------



## KuwabaraTheMan (Feb 2, 2008)

fghj said:


> OP is not bad but I enjoy Naruto a lot more. OP is too childish and predictable to me. Also OP fanboys make me like it less.



How on earth is One Piece childishin and predictable? Especially more so than Naruto.

One Piece is one of the most unpredictable shounen series out there, in terms of plot development.

You look me in the eye and tell me that you expected who Luffy's dad and grandpa are.

Oda has tons of unpredictable plot twits.

As far as it being childish, I'd say the cast are fairly mature for a shounen series. They usually behave in a mature way when the time calls, and goof off when they get the chance.


And how is Naruto neither childish nor predictable? I can't think of nearly as many unpredictable moments in Naruto.

Not to mention even though I like the character of Naruto, he's a lot more immature than One Piece's main cast members.



juggalojaf said:


> Reposting what I said in the OP section thread.  If anyone has a problem with it, be warned that I have many other posts over there to back this up.
> 
> "Breaking it down by catagory here.
> 
> ...



Um, how?

Fight Factor? One Piece's fights are a lot more brutal, original and impacting. I'm not bashing Naruto's fights, but I'd give that one to One Piece.

Protagonist wise, One Piece is also a lot better. We've got 9 characters that are full developed in every way. Naruto just has 2 or 3, and a bunch of characters that show up far too infrequently. Kishimoto doesn't even seem to know who he wants to give focus to. It's sad, really.


----------



## Sengoku (Feb 2, 2008)

arlong killing nami's mother >>>>> hidan killing sarutobi


----------



## Maycara (Feb 2, 2008)

Sengoku said:


> arlong killing nami's mother >>>>> hidan killing sarutobi



I have to disagree...but I may be bias on this one since immortals is my fav Naruto arc.....lol


----------



## Sengoku (Feb 2, 2008)

meh. i like hidan too just that when arlong killed nami, i thought it had a more of a profound impact towards the audience and the characters in the manga/anime


----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Feb 2, 2008)

Minzara said:


> Thats because your thinking about the thing.


... what?



> I was just making design opinions, not character. I can give others if you like.


In my second post, I was talking about the designs, as well.



> Franky,Chopper(reindeer),Brooke's,Ussops. Just from the main cast. While I dont mind any of these designs except for Ussops and Franky. Alot of people do. And it can make it really hard to relate, or feel feelings for said characters. Again Only ones I hate, will the main one i really dislike is Frankys. Thats my point. I was just using Arlong design as example, NOT his character...


While I give you Franky and Brooke, what's so bad about Ussop's design that can make it hard to sympathize with him? Other than his nose, he's one of the most normal looking Straw Hats so far. As for Chopper, he's a reindeer that ate a Devil Fruit and wears a hat that Hirulik(I probably butchered his name) gave him. In the case of weird and/or goofy designs, you could find a whole lot worse than Chopper and Ussop(Kuro's crew, Buggy's crew, pre-Slip Slip Alvida, Skypiea in general, Foxy, Fukurou, that one CP9 guy that had the kabuki design).

And, to be perfectly honest, you have to be really shallow to have the way a character is designed make you not care about what happens to them. Their actions throughout the story and development(or lack thereof) should be more of a focal point.



> They don't seem simalar to me. or maybe its just Arlong design who knows. All I know is Arlong annoyed me. Hidan did not.


Parts of their personalities are similar(brash, braggarts, easy to piss off). Take away Hidan's religious thing and add Kakuzu's greed and you pretty much have Arlong's personality.


----------



## Maycara (Feb 2, 2008)

ShadowReplication1480 said:


> ... what?
> 
> 
> In my second post, I was talking about the designs, as well.
> ...



Sigh....dude you give me a headache....I was using them as example as my point. MY POINT IS! If you dont like the design of anything you will hate it. No matter the story of character. Try looking a giant turd for 300+ episodes. Not easy huh? OP art isnt a piece of turd, and I like it most of the time. But its completely UNDERSTANDABLE how people can not watch something if they hate the designs. Maybe I am shallow, but if a guy looks really fucking stupid, I ain't usually going to care whats up about him. Case in point Franky, he is just a joke. This isnt always the case. After 300+ episodes 400+ chapters with Ussop, he grew on me, mainly because how the Ussop VS luffy thing was handle. Thats my fav part of the OP manga but RIGHT after that ARC, HE DIDNT change at all. So fuck Ussop.


----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Feb 2, 2008)

> If you dont like the design of anything you will hate it. No matter the story of character.


That's a completely ridiculous assumption to make. 



> Try looking a giant turd for 300+ episodes. Not easy huh?


Terrible example. Even taking into account that you aren't talking about OP's character designs in particular, it's a terrible example.



> Thats my fav part of the OP manga but RIGHT after that ARC, HE DIDNT change at all. So fuck Ussop.


Did you read his fight with Perona? Or the end of Thriller Bark where he nor Nami ran even though Moria with all those shadows absorbed was rampaging in front of them? Or when he attacked Kuma who could've slaughtered him in an instant? Saying he didn't change after Water 7/Enies Lobby is just flat out wrong.


----------



## Maycara (Feb 2, 2008)

ShadowReplication1480 said:


> That's a completely ridiculous assumption to make.


No its not, consider THATS the reason most people hate OP. Is because of the designs, I think its pretty accurate.



> Terrible example. Even taking into account that you aren't talking about OP's character designs in particular, it's a terrible example.


HOW the hell is it? I am Just saying if you hate LOOKING at something, its going to be really hard to keep looking at it. AGAIN YOUR COMPLETELY missing the point...



> Did you read his fight with Perona? Or the end of Thriller Bark where he nor Nami ran even though Moria with all those shadows absorbed was rampaging in front of them? Or when he attacked Kuma who could've slaughtered him in an instant? Saying he didn't change after Water 7/Enies Lobby is just flat out wrong.


Ussop has attack people before when the going gets tough. That is nothing new. What I am saying is he stayed he goofy stupid self, completely unchanged. That character is really getting boring. Alot of main cast is like that, but more so Ussop then anything. But again I was just say that on a whim...seems you LOVE attacking everything but my point...I am losing faith in you...


----------



## narutosanchez (Feb 2, 2008)

Okay I guess OP would win BUT only because they have cursed fruit. Pirates in general would get wtfpwnd by Naruto's shadow clones alone


----------



## iander (Feb 2, 2008)

I didnt feel much for Arlong killing Nami's mother because we only knew her for like a little over one chapter and knew she was dead.  The only thing I felt was like woohoo someone died in OP for once.  Asuma had been around since the beginning of the manga and while not being a major character, he was well liked by most.  Plus he was totally badass.  Then with his star pupil watching, he was totally impaled.


----------



## Supa Swag (Feb 2, 2008)

Asuma was filler.



narutosanchez said:


> Okay I guess OP would win BUT only because they have cursed fruit. Pirates in general would get wtfpwnd by Naruto's shadow clones alone




In a fight? OP rapes Naruto. Trust me. lol @ shadow clones.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 2, 2008)

AkuOni said:


> It's a plaguristic rip off of DBZ and it's so simple, one diminsional, and inconsitant that it makes Hamtaro more complex. Seriously, at least Sasuke is human, Luffy and the others are fantasy crap characters with a bland build up and un realistic development that gives the characters no depth at all. It's like looking at a DBZ clone with disney elements. Luffy himself is one deminsional, static, annoying lame, and overpowered. A Default with no human qualities but Angry and Happy. Full of PIS, he never struggles and always manages to beat bad guys without showing humanity in the process. How can you relate to him, you can't. he sucks so ad that he has to be filled with far more interesting characters other than him to allow him to be a toleratable character to endure. Plus same formula each arc, and the Straw Hats always manage to pull Plot Plot Fruit out of their asses when they're about pwned to death.
> 
> Seriously, double standards coming from you dude. Major double standards.



-SOrry for the double post,will merge it later-

Oh yes.Sure:

we have 7 government protected pirates,an all world government,thousands of marines,hundreds of pirate crews,the Four Emperors,The Five Elder Stars who control the government,the Buster Call,Admiral Aokiji,Smoker,an ancient conspiracy,that anihilated a country whose wery NAME was not to be spoken out,personel values,ancient world destroying weapons,the mysterious "Will of D" conection between characters bearing an initial in the name and being drawn forth by fate,Fishmen being racists,giant wariors,.......
making the weakest guy the main villian,having characters who are weaker even if they have the most "broken" version of said skil (Jyabura is the only one who can use Tekkai-ergo repelling of an atack by the body and MOVE, but hes ranked the 3th strongest,bellow Kaku and Lucci),Cipher Pol's,The anihilation of Ohara,the conspiracy to make tom a criminal and kill him,stealing the blueprints of Pluton,Bellem?re being purposefully shot so that her two daughters can live,

Yeah,that isnt complex at all,using orange and pink as STEALTH colors IS......

okay,did you read even to Loguetown,Mister Brainy?


----------



## KuwabaraTheMan (Feb 2, 2008)

iander said:


> I didnt feel much for Arlong killing Nami's mother because we only knew her for like a little over one chapter and knew she was dead.  The only thing I felt was like woohoo someone died in OP for once.  Asuma had been around since the beginning of the manga and while not being a major character, he was well liked by most.  Plus he was totally badass.  Then with his star pupil watching, he was totally impaled.



Somehow I think a mother being shot right in front of her two young daughters as she dies to save them is still really emotional.

I'm not going to deny that Asuma's death was really emotional as well, but don't deny the emotion of Bellemere's death. And there are plenty of other emotional deaths in One Piece, as well. Hililuk, Olvia, Saul, and all the other people from Ohara, Tom, and plenty of others.


----------



## SmackyTheFrog (Feb 2, 2008)

OP gets the win for me because the characters in Naruto don't have the chemistry that OP characters emits.  The Strawhats laugh together, fight together, and cry together(aside from zoro who don't cry).  Team 7 just don't have that type of chemistry, they never interact with each other, they never joke around with each other, we haven't ever seen team 7 do anything outside of a mission.


----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Feb 2, 2008)

Minzara said:


> No its not, consider THATS the reason most people hate OP. Is because of the designs, I think its pretty accurate.


I wasn't even talking about OP in that instance, just the fact that you toss around absolutes and then contradict them the very next post(nevermind the fact that there are people who've said they didn't like the art or designs when they first started reading it and ended up enjoying the series regardless). It's fucking annoying.



> HOW the hell is it? I am Just saying if you hate LOOKING at something, its going to be really hard to keep looking at it. AGAIN YOUR COMPLETELY missing the point...


It's not hard if you give a shit about the character. Giving up reading something just because you don't like a fucking design BEFORE getting to know if the character itself annoys you is pathetic.



> Ussop has attack people before when the going gets tough. That is nothing new. What I am saying is he stayed he goofy stupid self, completely unchanged.


So he shouldn't stay goofy even though he's grown braver since joining the crew? Its part of his personality! He wouldn't be the same person if he was serious all the time and his growth as a character would mean nothing because it's supposed to be a process, not some one-n-done bullshit.



> But again I was just say that on a whim...seems you LOVE attacking everything but my point...I am losing faith in you...


Dude, it's a fucking messageboard. Who gives a flying fuck about "faith" while posting and debating? And stop saying I didn't address your points when I clearly did. It's not my fault when you misinterpret them.


----------



## Sengoku (Feb 2, 2008)

narutosanchez said:


> Okay I guess OP would win BUT only because they have cursed fruit. Pirates in general would get wtfpwnd by Naruto's shadow clones alone



ladies and gentlemen, this is the reason why most op fans make fun of you guys.

This prime example SHOWS that this fool right here does NOT know what the fuck he is talking about.

Should I bring up Shanks? Whitebeard? Mihawk?

seriously, Minzara. You need to educate some of these narutards before they go and make some dumbass statement like this.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 2, 2008)

Sengoku said:


> ladies and gentlemen, this is the reason why most op fans make fun of you guys.
> 
> This prime example SHOWS that this fool right here does NOT know what the fuck he is talking about.
> 
> ...



hi Sengoku,didnt see you in a while(we made a "NF Marine HQ" fanclub,I think youll love it)

and yeah,this.But mostly things like what AkuOni said.

I had several good points brought up.

Aku Oni
__________________
"Seriously, at least Sasuke is human, Luffy and the others are fantasy crap characters with a bland build up and un realistic development that gives the characters no depth at all. 


jacobe91

__________________


LMFAO yes a guy who can turn into a snake/shoot snakes from his body and become a half-demon is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO fuckin human. OMG summoning shurikens from seals on his wrist is SOOOO GODDAMN HUMAN! JESUS CHRIST HAVE MERCY.

xXShanksXx 

__________________

yes and if naruto can revive after having all of his skin peeled of makes him as human as human can be. riiiiiiiight


----------



## Maycara (Feb 2, 2008)

ShadowReplication1480 said:


> I wasn't even talking about OP in that instance, just the fact that you toss around absolutes and then contradict them the very next post(nevermind the fact that there are people who've said they didn't like the art or designs when they first started reading it and ended up enjoying the series regardless). It's fucking annoying.



Dude, I said thats the reason MOST people don't like it. Thats been one the main respones in this thread. Is I hate the designs, or whatever. I have not contradicted myself once, not once. I have stuck to my same point that some people just dont like the designs, and so they wont watch it. BTW if you didnt know I LOVE OP, its my second fav shouen manga after Naruto. I can deal with designs. What I am saying is I COMPELTELY AND TOALLY UNDERSTAND how a person can hate a show for its design. I hated Windwaker for the reason, and even after I beat that game, I still hate that Designs.




> It's not hard if you give a shit about the character. Giving up reading something just because you don't like a fucking design BEFORE getting to know if the character itself annoys you is pathetic.


How is it pathetic? People have life's and shit, If they look at something, and they hate the designs, they are going to move onto something else. Its not pathetic at all. You saying it like that makes me think you better then people who chose not to view stuff due to dislike the art. Which is sad. If I am wrong. By all means I am sorry, but your coming off like that.



> So he shouldn't stay goofy even though he's grown braver since joining the crew? Its part of his personality! He wouldn't be the same person if he was serious all the time and his growth as a character would mean nothing because it's supposed to be a process, not some one-n-done bullshit.


I agree to some extent, maybe its just I hate the character, who knows. Lol, he just bothers me.



> Dude, it's a fucking messageboard. Who gives a flying fuck about "faith" while posting and debating? And stop saying I didn't address your points when I clearly did. It's not my fault when you misinterpret them.



Naw, I lost faith in you because you kepy bringing up other parts of my post that I wasnt trying to get across, if you werent being so thick headed you would of relize that. I was just trying to get one point, and one point only across but you kept attacking other stuff in my post, which then led to me saying other points, which I actually had no care in saying, cause quite frankly I didnt give a shit at that point. No, no, you didn't. You kept pointing out characters, and bla bla, and nothing about the actually POINT. Is that SOME PEOPLE JUST CANT GET PAST THE DESIGN. And my no means are they bad for it. If you think so, oh well. You finally adressed that point this post.



Sengoku said:


> seriously, Minzara. You need to educate some of these narutards before they go and make some dumbass statement like this.



Meh..I feel alone sometimes..lol


----------



## Sengoku (Feb 2, 2008)

Lobolover said:


> hi Sengoku,didnt see you in a while(we made a "NF Marine HQ" fanclub,I think youll love it)
> 
> and yeah,this.But mostly things like what AkuOni said.
> 
> ...



hey lobolover
you shouldnt worry about akuoni. i just ignore his post every time i see his name here.
its already been proven that he has never picked up the one piece manga ever in his life.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 2, 2008)

SO-hes this forums Carter/Ranger Samson?Hmm.Will mark that.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 2, 2008)

Minzara said:


> I have to disagree...but I may be bias on this one since immortals is my fav Naruto arc.....lol



I don't see how Asuma's death can be emotional when we knew it was going to happen like 30 chapters before it did.

Heck we didn't expect Bellemere's death at all not to mention many of the other people in the flashbacks and such. There are many reasons why One Piece deaths have far more of an emotional impact. 

Heck One Piece fans cried over the death of a fucking boat. That's more impressive than any lame ass death that's come out of Naruto. To make fans cry for a boat. You really have to be a damn good wiriter and Oda is definitely one of the best in regards to manga.


----------



## Maycara (Feb 2, 2008)

Aethos said:


> I don't see how Asuma's death can be emotional when we knew it was going to happen like 30 chapters before it did.
> 
> Heck we didn't expect Bellemere's death at all not to mention many of the other people in the flashbacks and such. There are many reasons why One Piece deaths have far more of an emotional impact.
> 
> Heck One Piece fans cried over the death of a fucking boat. That's more impressive than any lame ass death that's come out of Naruto. To make fans cry for a boat. You really have to be a damn good wiriter and Oda is definitely one of the best in regards to manga.



Boat didnt make me cry...it was well written. Like i said i am very bias to that arc. the immortals one, since its my fav in naruto...so I wont make opinions..since it will all be biased...lol


----------



## iander (Feb 2, 2008)

We already knew nami's mother was killed chapters before they showed the flashback and anyone with half a brain could of known it was Arlong that killed her.  I think the thing that made it even less emotional besides knowing her for only an chapter was that it was such a useless death.  There was no point in her having to say that she was their mother when she could have told them that a million times after Arlong left.  Yeah it was sad but no where near as much as Asuma, Sandaime, or Jiraiya.  If one of the crewmembers were to die, it would make OP much better in my opinion.  No I dont just want a death for no reason.  I think not only would it be really sad, since the crew members are all developed well, but it would add so much more credibility and danger to the fights.  You always know they will survive their fights no matter the injuries so I think a death of one of them would make everyone be like omg all bets are off.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 2, 2008)

iander said:


> We already knew nami's mother was killed chapters before they showed the flashback and anyone with half a brain could of known it was Arlong that killed her.  I think the thing that made it even less emotional besides knowing her for only an chapter was that it was such a useless death.  There was no point in her having to say that she was their mother when she could have told them that a million times after Arlong left.  Yeah it was sad but no where near as much as Asuma, Sandaime, or Jiraiya.  If one of the crewmembers were to die, it would make OP much better in my opinion.  No I dont just want a death for no reason.  I think not only would it be really sad, since the crew members are all developed well, but it would add so much more credibility and danger to the fights.  You always know they will survive their fights no matter the injuries so I think a death of one of them would make everyone be like omg all bets are off.



How so? Bellemere went out with a bang. The only one who did that in Naruto was Sandaime. Asuma and Jiraiya died like a bunch of pussies.


----------



## Furious George (Feb 2, 2008)

No one answered my question on page 31! 

Should I take that as a "no, Oda never commented on Naruto"?


----------



## iander (Feb 2, 2008)

You mean she went out from a bang.  Her death was pretty pointless as I stated before.  Asuma was just out of his league and Jiraiya certainly went out with a bang.  He willed himself back to life just to deliver the message that will help Naruto defeat Pein and thus save the Narutoverse.  I thought Jiraiya had the best last chapter of anyone besides maybe the aftermath of Haku's death.


----------



## Supa Swag (Feb 2, 2008)

iander said:


> We already knew nami's mother was killed chapters before they showed the flashback and anyone with half a brain could of known it was Arlong that killed her.  I think the thing that made it even less emotional besides knowing her for only an chapter was that it was such a useless death.  There was no point in her having to say that she was their mother when she could have told them that a million times after Arlong left.  Yeah it was sad but no where near as much as Asuma, Sandaime, or Jiraiya.  If one of the crewmembers were to die, it would make OP much better in my opinion.  No I dont just want a death for no reason.  I think not only would it be really sad, since the crew members are all developed well, but it would add so much more credibility and danger to the fights.  You always know they will survive their fights no matter the injuries so I think a death of one of them would make everyone be like omg all bets are off.



Not much shounen has great deaths...

Bleach: Only hollows die. Good guys sometimes but lol Orihime

Naruto: Only bad guys and old people die. Konoha kids and Gaara and siblings are immortal.

YYH: Bad guys. Genkai died but then "lol Im back"

Dragonball: lol dragonballs


----------



## Juubi (Feb 2, 2008)

I'd have to say that Naruto is definitely better. I hate OP. >_>


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 3, 2008)

care to tell us why,when OP is clearly better?

yes,Naruto is better,thats why One Piece is the long standing best selling manga for the past few YEARS.


----------



## KuwabaraTheMan (Feb 3, 2008)

Cyckness said:


> No one answered my question on page 31!
> 
> Should I take that as a "no, Oda never commented on Naruto"?



As I recall, he's stated that he reads it, but he clearly is nowhere near as enamored with it as Kishimoto is with One Piece.

Although Oda and Kishimoto are friends, so I'm sure he'll keep reading it as a nod to his pal.


----------



## Nodonn (Feb 3, 2008)

Lobolover said:


> care to tell us why,when OP is clearly better?
> 
> yes,Naruto is better,thats why One Piece is the long standing best selling manga for the past few YEARS.



I suggest you read up on the definition of the word opinion. Might answer some questions.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 3, 2008)

Your going to start telling me to actualy TOLERATE the "opinions" of AkuOni.


----------



## Nodonn (Feb 3, 2008)

Unless you live in some kind of dictacy, I'm afraid opinions - how retarded they may be - are to be tolerated


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 3, 2008)

iander said:


> You mean she went out from a bang.  Her death was pretty pointless as I stated before.  Asuma was just out of his league and Jiraiya certainly went out with a bang.  He willed himself back to life just to deliver the message that will help Naruto defeat Pein and thus save the Narutoverse.  I thought Jiraiya had the best last chapter of anyone besides maybe the aftermath of Haku's death.



How was Bellemere's sacrifice POINTLESS?! That is probably the most stupidest thing I've heard yet.


----------



## iander (Feb 3, 2008)

Probably because if she didnt say anything, she would have lived.  But she decided to outright tell them she had kids right when Arlong was going to leave because apparently she couldnt lie and say she didnt have a family.  I dont call that sacrifice because she didnt need to save anyone.  Instead she died and condemned Nami to virtual slavery.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 3, 2008)

Uhm-you DO realise he wouldve killed THEM,right?


----------



## iander (Feb 3, 2008)

He had no idea where they were or if they actually existed.  If she had said nothing, no one would have died.  The worst would have been that they would have had to separate until Arlong's empire was destroyed or perhaps slip back in when they had the money to pay for them.  Had they found the girls and demanded the money and she was killed, then it would have been a noble sacrifice.  What she did was noble but I wouldnt call it a sacrifice.  Even that doctor guy thought what she did was stupid.


----------



## competitionbros (Feb 3, 2008)

iander said:


> He had no idea where they were or if they actually existed.  If she had said nothing, no one would have died.  The worst would have been that they would have had to separate until Arlong's empire was destroyed or perhaps slip back in when they had the money to pay for them.  Had they found the girls and demanded the money and she was killed, then it would have been a noble sacrifice.  What she did was noble but I wouldnt call it a sacrifice.  Even that doctor guy thought what she did was stupid.





That's not stupid, she would rather die than admit that she doesn't have daughters, that's a big emotional moment.


----------



## Pimp of Pimps (Feb 3, 2008)

*People don't understand that simply living isn't a goal these characters who sacrificed themselves strive for. They want to live a certain way. 

In this case, she'd never admit that she has no daughters. It'd be like dying for her. *


----------



## AkuOni (Feb 3, 2008)

You can't cry at One Piece when the characters looks so damn ugly and hideous when they burst out bawlling waterfalls and snot.

I did feel sad when Zoro lost his girlfriend and pledged to avenge her dreams.

But I got over that when Gaara's story came about.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 3, 2008)

Have you ever seen yourself while crying?you sob,ooze goes outa your knows,thats REALISTIC,not the celestial OH SO ADORABLE way it gets portrayed.

and please get out of this discusion,you clearly lack ANY knowledge of One Piece at all (Luffy is not a human and as proof you give us a guy who can shoot snakes out of his body and transform into a half demon?and Naruto living after his skin gets peeled-REAL HUMAINE),as,as weve agreed ,your so called "Arguments" are totaly without basis, reason or foundation and your counter arguments actualy match your own "suckage" criterias.


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Feb 3, 2008)

AkuOni said:


> You can't cry at One Piece when the characters looks so damn ugly and hideous when they burst out bawlling waterfalls and snot.
> 
> I did feel sad when Zoro lost his girlfriend and pledged to avenge her dreams.
> 
> But I got over that when Gaara's story came about.



You clearly have little to no knowledge of OP, but at least you called him Zoro this time and not Zolo.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 3, 2008)

well,then in another 300 years hell actualy know that Kuina was NOT his girlfriend.

and maybe in another 600 he'll read past Baratie.

And in another 1000 he MAY catch up to Drum.

And in YET Another 4000 he may catch up to the present day.

and a milion years from there,he actualy may see his mistake.

.....................

not likely.


----------



## Supa Swag (Feb 3, 2008)

AkuOni said:


> You can't cry at One Piece when the characters looks so damn ugly and hideous when they burst out bawlling waterfalls and snot.
> 
> I did feel sad when Zoro lost his girlfriend and pledged to avenge her dreams.
> 
> But I got over that when Gaara's story came about.



Yep

They also need to get to the Grand Line already, amirite?

and Luffy needs to quit looking like Goku.


----------



## SleepingDisaster (Feb 3, 2008)

naruto isn't as good as OP yet

though I read naruto


----------



## QuoNina (Feb 3, 2008)

I really like OP and its characters. Personally I find OP's character more emotionally appealing, but not necessarily more dimensional. 

Oda is a really good writer who knows how to pull drama and his script is quite witty. (Also, OP is a manga full of scripts such that if you put OP and Part II Naruto right next to each other and C&C for a few pages, you can easily tell the difference in the tempo.) I always feel people in OP are talkative and high-spirited. It's part of the atmosphere of the universe that Oda has set up. 

However, I am not sure if OP is a better piece of ... literature. OP is based on one advanture after another. It's like an ongoing pirate story with drama and good storytelling. I just follow OP for the fun of it. So Naruto probly has a more well-arranged plot with more interlocking. But then, again, I think Oda meant to write something like that in the first place. 

p.s.- I am fairly behind in OP. So my opinion might not be up-to-date.


----------



## SmackyTheFrog (Feb 4, 2008)

It's hard to feel emotional for Naruto sometimes because Kishi gets excessive and gets carried away with making characters past sad.  Particularly Sasuke and Gaara.  Rock Lee's story was the only one that made me feel sad.


----------



## mystictrunks (Feb 4, 2008)

AkuOni said:


> I did feel sad when Zoro lost his girlfriend and pledged to avenge her dreams.



Zoro had a girlfriend


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 4, 2008)

Kitty Litter said:


> Yep
> 
> They also need to get to the Grand Line already, amirite?
> 
> and Luffy needs to quit looking like Goku.



okay.you DO realise they HAVE been in the grand line for the past,uhm, I dunno,8 years?


----------



## Shishi-O (Feb 4, 2008)

Kitty Litter said:


> Yep
> 
> They also need to get to the Grand Line already, amirite?
> 
> and Luffy needs to quit looking like Goku.


i  actually love that hero type, and read one piece for it.

lovable goofball, but won't let down his nakama, if he equals goku then great.

naruto is a lame protagonist, in pt 2 he sux( persona equals chick who got dumped), and like tobi said..." you are too full of yourself ".

i rank them both as my faves, but one piece battles gets me giddy like dbz, op is more epic,....naruto should be like luffy, but he isn't. in pt. 1 nruto was like this, headstrong and sfw i'm gonna kick ur ass, with a tissue in his bloody nose and a fist raised in defiance.

where is that punkrocker/ b boy that naruto was?..gone.

luffy has the same spirit, if not moreso, now that he has more to protect, infact his whole nakama is reaching the hieghts of their badassery.

while naruto should be title changed to tales of the sharingan haxxorz, i gotta tell u i am getting tired of this.

the thing with kishimoto is maybe he is too technical, the last chapters are lacking spirit.

what awed the hell out of me in pt 2 was oro vs nk4, "the white snake", jiraiya vs pein.

not to mention oda loves what he does, where kishi has stated he can't wait to end the manga so he can make " mario" the greatest mafia manga ever.

and i gotta tell u talent or no, if u don't wanna be doing something it shows.

1) he now completely skips alot of fights.

2) he says what we are supposed to think of the characters, oda shows it.

3) they both came out at the same time, yet one piece is 100 chapters ahead of naruto? wtf!!?

4) this is oda's magnum opus, naruto was supposed to be the manga that got kishi noticed so he could make "mario" but too many people love the series now sueshida wants him to continue so they can milk it.

5) whenever he can, oda does extra posters, that are fun vibrant and imaginative.

look at these facts and everything becomes obvious


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 4, 2008)

exactly.While Oda stated he doesnt want OP to be his only work/the only thing he'll be remembered for,I must say-when did you hear something like "Oh,I planed it to happen much sooner,but I had just too much fun with it" from Kishimoto?


----------



## Shishi-O (Feb 4, 2008)

Lobolover said:


> exactly.While Oda stated he doesnt want OP to be his only work/the only thing he'll be remembered for,I must say-when did you hear something like "Oh,I planed it to happen much sooner,but I had just too much fun with it" from Kishimoto?


kishi like sasuke is in a bad relationship he wants to leave, that is why he likes sasuke so much,..he can relate


----------



## Morati (Feb 4, 2008)

Haven't seen or read OP (mainly because it's a helluva job to do so ) so I'm going with Naruto since I can't judge what I don't don't know.


----------



## Shishi-O (Feb 4, 2008)

Morati said:


> Haven't seen or read OP (mainly because it's a helluva job to do so ) so I'm going with Naruto since I can't judge what I don't don't know.


u r missin out.

u can download all at This is her dA!


----------



## competitionbros (Feb 4, 2008)

Lobolover said:


> okay.you DO realise they HAVE been in the grand line for the past,uhm, I dunno,8 years?



Um, I think he was being sarcastic........doesn't translate well on the net.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 4, 2008)

Oh,sorry.I have had my OWN sarcasm misunderstood a few times,its just,with people like AkuOni giving out statements,like Kuina being Zoro's girlfriend and about how ugly they are and how a young children prety girl series about semi inteligent hamsters is more complex then an action/adventure manga,being published for the past 10 years, Its realy hard to see the REAL sarcasm.


----------



## blackrose 666 (Feb 5, 2008)

this thread still exsists? oh well while i still prefer naruto i have to agree with Shishi-o it really seems as if kishi doesn't like his own manga(or the main character for that matter).what i noticed for example is that in part 1 kishi gave more effort in things like covers etc,while in part 2 there are many chapters who doesn't even have a chapter and when,then it's often very minimalistic,which isn't necessairly something bad,but it gets boring with time.


----------



## MIHAWK. (Feb 5, 2008)

PART 1

i can't be objective in this for 2 reasons,1) OP is my favourite MANGA 2) part 2 has disapointed me so much that i don't consider naruto a manga worth waiting to read anymore

if part 1 didn't have so much potential then i wouldn't care

kishi must have put a lot of effort to destroy it,i dont care for manga that weren't good and got worse,there was nothing to get attached to so there was nothing to lose

but when the manga were good and they become bad i tend to dislike them even more simply cause i was once attached to them


*Spoiler*: _an example of the line above_ 




for example when i read tenjou tenge i felt like the author must have been pretty pathetic and i would accept to continue reading it only if i got payed,it had no back ground story in every aspect of the manga,the characters were nothing apart from well drew tins and the story failed in so many levels

i remember 2 scenes,one was the girl with the white hair (protagnist) talking with the red haired (propably) girl that her brother was screwing,they had a dialogue that sucked noodles and the 2nd bitch cries and sais:"i wanted to hit her once but she totally beat me" and i was like:"WHAT???? u consider THIS CRAP and emotional scene???? go drown in the toilet"

the 2nd scene was around there,it was one of those telepathy scenes were one character feels like crap and has lost himself and another one comes out and knows how he is feeling without needing to hear it and when i saw this on tenjou tenge i was like:"STOP RIPPING OFF CLICHE SCENES THAT REQUIRE BACKGROUND BASTARD"

what could u expect from a manga like this??? it was an utter shit in every aspect of it, high school students that thought they ruled the world killing people without anyone telling them a single thing and other details that all together make a paper to wipe ur ass





*Spoiler*: _part 1_ 




but then u have naruto,it was once a great manga,it had so so so much potential,at first its art was crappy,naruto was like a toad with blond hair,sasuke was like an emo and sakura was like an ugly boy but it started to get better,the only thing that seemed like that in OP was zoro that was like a newly recruited marine in the beginning but apart from that its art was good in the beginning something that i cant say for naruto

but when u saw naruto's background and the way everyone treated him and how he struggled to succeed it was touching,the manga moved me in the haku-zabuza arc but who would tell me then that zabuza and the 3rd were the only real ninja in the manga?

then naruto discovers something like friendship with sasuke through their rivalry,though their relationship was a total ripoff of sakuragi's and rukawa's relationship it kinda evolved so it was nice to see,the sharingan was something like a jagan ripoff but it was ok since it was fitting in the story

sasuke wanted in the beginning only to take revenge and he didn't feel anything towards anyone but naruto started to change him,he cared about naruto's safety more than his revenge when he heard itachi was after him and he was imprisoned to a universe between vegeance and expectations because he was an uchiha

and he has a decision to make,follow the ultimate dark path and kill his best friend to gain power or to struggle with less possibilities of success and he chooses the second cause he can't kill his friend

sasuke disappears with orochimaru,jiraiya takes naruto along with him and naruto wants to become stronger so he could save sasuke and kick the akatsuki's ass





*Spoiler*: _some reasons that made part 2 a failure_ 





*Spoiler*: _the character naruto in part 2_ 



then naruto in part 2 returns as a failure,the manga's success is connected with the main character but naruto fails,he was a cute kid but when he was a kid the jutsu that he knew were far beyond the genin level and he was making some strategies from time to time like with zabuza and with gaara

now he screams and rushes in without a plan,he can't use any long-mid range jutsu,he has no genjutsu using/dispelling skills,he has no strategic skills,he has no special speed or strenght or any special taijutsu and he can't manipulate even one element when a simple jounin can use ay least 3 

he wants to save sasuke from orochimaru but when he learns oro is dead he becomes a stalker of sasuke,otherwise how can u call a person that has been denied by his "beloved one" but he is continuing to chase him 24/7 and the only thing he is thinking is how to force him to be together? other words are obsessed,sick and mentally ill

and kishi sais that naruto had too much screen time and its now time for the others to have some?? so naruto will remain like that for another 2 years at least





*Spoiler*: _the great kyubi in part 1 becomes fodder in part 2_ 



the kyubi becomes from the ultimate life form to a pet of the MS,and on the same time once it was a major weapon fornaruto but now it has become a handicap that is killing him and he shouldn't use anymore,kishi couldn't think of any way for naruto to tame it since it was in HIS body? later jiraiya sais that the yondaime has sealed only the good chakra of the kyubi inside naruto so the kyubi FOR NOW becomes again a usefull weapon but in the future it may become BAD again




jiraiya is killed for no reason when his relationship with orochimaru was never cleared out,orochimaru became orobuto to make us lulz,tsunade becomes a failure since naruto is the one that makes the desicions and each character that appears has no background and has only 5 to 6 jutsu because kishi has no imagination and then the endless plot holes began to increase as itachi sais that the kyubi had to be sealed last while they tried to catch naruto back in part 1

and since i dont want this post to become bigger than this naruto becomes a piece of shit IMO,even if OP was alot worse it would still be better than naruto,even bleach right now is better than naruto and the naruto fanboys come here and claim that OP sucks?





*Spoiler*: _why OP>>>naruto_ 





*Spoiler*: _naruto is a luffy ripoff_ 




the main character is a luffy with whiskers,that i cannot negotiate,luffy was the first character that was super stupid and carefree but when he was needed he became serious and he made awesome lines like:"how r u treating ur nakamaa??" while screaming and kicking the villain's ass,these moments are reserved for the end and the character with his strong determination is able to change people

when he was helping his nakama he knew how they were feeling and what some things meant to them without needing to hear it like hiluluk's flag for chopper and nami's office in arlong park (the nackground we were talking about!),also he struggled to be the best in his field and he was shouting it in every chance with confidence

that is exactly what naruto is but considering one piece had more than 100 chapters b4 naruto even begun u can see who has ripped whom

of course luffy doesn't dress like a garbage man,he doesn't stalk his nakama,he doesnt interfere with his namaka's dreams cough*naruto takes a team to capture itachi*cough,whenever he needs to become stronger he DOES and he isn't kicked around like a ragdoll and he knows when to let go,something that can be proved with usopp's case in W7 and naruto can't do with sasuke





*Spoiler*: _sasuke=fail now_ 




sasuke has become like the most boring person on earth,he has no morale code anymore and the only things he is saying is:"the uchiha>>all,i will kill u,shut up",he has no depth anymore,he isn't doing anything else like he was in part 1

but he only wants to kill itachi,nothing more,nothing less,if that was the case the fight should have started right after part 2 since sasuke doesn't have anything else to give to the story

now that kishi said he will have to finish the sasuke vs itachi he has madara to replace itachi? so now naruto will keep running behind sasuke who will keep running behind madara???  GREAT STORY!!!

he was supposed to be a tensai but he knows 4 jutsu more than naruto when he has the copy eye and his brother is even more boring and super short and has a hidden pony tail!!!!!



sakura is ugly on the looks,she was the most improved person in part 2 but after the sasori fight she becomes fodder again or should i say an ugly cheerleader


*Spoiler*: _other shinobies in part 2_ 



lee hasn't spoken of his dream being an excellent ninja despite his handicap since the last time he appeared in part 1,neji hasn't said a word about the condition in the hyuga clan,tsunade put nawaki's and dan's dreams into naruto but she rarely speaks about him,the necklace that naruto wears was brought up 1 time in the entire part 2,1010 and shino are more fodder than the ANBU

orochimaru who was the only true villain and gets raped along with gaara,naruto stopped wanting to be a hokage and he has become the number one sasuke fangirl while nobody ever remember to mention that yondaime was his father for no apparent reason,temari and kankouro become fodder secondary characters to introduce gaara's "coolness" and shikamaru apparently is the only one that is worth waiting to fight and i thought itachi would have a serious reason to kill all the clan but aparently he just woke up bad that day,if he wanted to make sasuke hate him he should kill his parents and not all the clan

not to mention that he wanted sasuke to get the MS so he could obtain the eternal MS but now he doesn't have a problem to take the normal sharingan which makes me wonder why he didn't do that back then when sasuke was a kid??? to become blinder???


----------



## Reddan (Feb 5, 2008)

I personally think that Naruto is a lot better, though I enjoy both. I have over half of Op and am familiar with the entire story. The first thing that annoys me about OP is the needless filler arcs. For example I know it was just one chapter, but the when they meet the man in the chest it was extremely boring. ALso felt the chopper arc was pretty much filler too. 

I prefer the fights in Naruto to the OP ones. There have been some incredible fights that I have seen in OP such as Zoro vs Mr 1 and Luffy crocodiel, but others have been extremely stupid. Ussop suriving being hit in the face with a 4 ton button during an epic arc is too unbelievable. 

I know people hate that Kishi does not focus on the lesser characters, but thats the way life is. Hard work will only get you so far, especially if you are up against a genius. It was set up from the start that the K12 had hierarchy. Sasuke and Naruto had more potential than the others. Followed by the likes of Sakura, Neji and Shikmaru. Lee a favourite among here was never going to be in he class of he big 2. Thats how life works. Crisitano Ronaldo (Sasuke) is always going to be a better player than a Gareth Barry no matter how hard the other works.


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Feb 5, 2008)

Everyone's entitled to their opinion but what you described is not filler they're valid parts of the stories. This isn't real life it's a manga series filled with superhuman pirates and ninjas. The fact that Kishi doesn't focus on his other characters is laziness and just a ripoff to the fans of these characters.


----------



## MIHAWK. (Feb 5, 2008)

arednad said:


> I personally think that Naruto is a lot better, though I enjoy both. I have over half of Op and am familiar with the entire story. The first thing that annoys me about OP is the needless filler arcs. For example I know it was just one chapter, but the when they meet the man in the chest it was extremely boring. ALso felt the chopper arc was pretty much filler too.
> 
> I prefer the fights in Naruto to the OP ones. There have been some incredible fights that I have seen in OP such as Zoro vs Mr 1 and Luffy crocodiel, but others have been extremely stupid. Ussop suriving being hit in the face with a 4 ton button during an epic arc is too unbelievable.
> 
> I know people hate that Kishi does not focus on the lesser characters, but thats the way life is. Hard work will only get you so far, especially if you are up against a genius. It was set up from the start that the K12 had hierarchy. Sasuke and Naruto had more potential than the others. Followed by the likes of Sakura, Neji and Shikmaru. Lee a favourite among here was never going to be in he class of he big 2. Thats how life works. Crisitano Ronaldo (Sasuke) is always going to be a better player than a Gareth Barry no matter how hard the other works.


 

do not compare cristiano to sasuke take that back

alright u say about the man in the chest,tell me about the chapter where iatchi appeared in front of naruto,pwned some of his clones saying he had something to tell him and then he dissapeared,or about the chapter where sasuke couldn't find in orochimaru's hideout some kunai or some courtins

u say usopp has lame fights,in the sasuke rescue arc which fight wasn't lame except naruto vs sasuke???

u say about usopp,usopp has durability,now tell me how could sakura beat sasori?


----------



## Reddan (Feb 5, 2008)

MIHAWK said:


> do not compare cristiano to sasuke take that back
> 
> alright u say about the man in the chest,tell me about the chapter where iatchi appeared in front of naruto,pwned some of his clones saying he had something to tell him and then he dissapeared,or about the chapter where sasuke couldn't find in orochimaru's hideout some kunai or some courtins
> 
> ...



The chapter where Itachi appeared infront of Naruto was to set something up. He wanted information on Sasuke and to talk. It still may have some relevance in the future. As for Sasuke dropping by the weapon store it showed that the big fight between the Uchiha's was soon going to start. 
The drum Island arc seemed pointless to me. It should have been much shorter and only distracted from the Crocodile arc, which I thought was amazing. Crocodile was a genius villan and only got beat due to berayal.

USopp's fights are just for comedic value( I have only read up to around chapter 220) and serve no real purpose. They add no tension and you know he will survive the most absurd things. 

As for the rescue Sasuke arc I enjoyed all the fights except Choujis and Kibas. It showed how serious the situation and was building up to the cilmatic battle between Sasuke and Naruto.

Sakura beating Sasori was a bit of PNJ, but he did sought of cover his tracks by having Sasori commit suicide/be affected by parents. Still Chiyo was a legendary ninja and Sakura like it or not is one of the best medical ninjas in the world. She has super strength and good evasive skills. It was hard to swallow, but I could accept it.

.


----------



## competitionbros (Feb 5, 2008)

arednad said:


> USopp's fights are just for comedic value( I have only read up to around chapter 220) and serve no real purpose. *They add no tension and you know he will survive the most absurd things. *
> 
> .





Surviving absurd things? Rock Lee had all his muscles torn, the bones in his left arm and leg shattered and not only did he _survive_ these things he was able to return to being a ninja.

Naruto had an electrified fist put through his chest and his neck broken and not only did he survive but continued to fight.

Neji was stabbed no less than ten times and and one of them actually went completely through his stomach and not only did he survive he managed to kill his opponent.


----------



## MIHAWK. (Feb 5, 2008)

arednad said:


> The chapter where Itachi appeared infront of Naruto was to set something up. He wanted information on Sasuke and to talk. It still may have some relevance in the future.


obviously itachi will get killed by sasuke,it had nothing to do with the plot,just a random scene



> As for Sasuke dropping by the weapon store it showed that the big fight between the Uchiha's was soon going to start.


oh,is that so??? had or hadn't orochimaru's hideout kunai and curtains to take? so was it or was it not a filler chapter??? itachi vs sasuke is hinted since chapter 2,i guess it needed an introduction by a random old lady we will never see again



> The drum Island arc seemed pointless to me. It should have been much shorter and only distracted from the Crocodile arc, which I thought was amazing. Crocodile was a genius villan and only got beat due to berayal.


 
the crew needed a doctor,they sail like years in the GL,they need a doctor,now seriously how can u find drum so random to the plot but in the mean time the hideout example isn't???



> USopp's fights are just for comedic value( I have only read up to around chapter 220) and serve no real purpose. They add no tension and you know he will survive the most absurd things.


 
read W7 and EL,then see if u can post this again and it is nice to have something different,since u know he will survive u don't have to wonder how he will summon manda,cast a genjutsu on him,get inside him and unsummon him in less than a second when deidara had already exploded and he was like 5 feet away,oops,that was sasuke



> As for the rescue Sasuke arc I enjoyed all the fights except Choujis and Kibas. It showed how serious the situation and was building up to the cilmatic battle between Sasuke and Naruto.


 
on the other hand i didn't,10 episodes were too much,they all should have died and they all survived,i liked that nobody died but since u take usopp's survival as something that annoys u then i have to counter it with the rescue sasuke arc


> Sakura beating Sasori was a bit of PNJ, but he did sought of cover his tracks by having Sasori commit suicide/be affected by parents. Still Chiyo was a legendary ninja and Sakura like it or not is one of the best medical ninjas in the world. She has super strength and good evasive skills. It was hard to swallow, but I could accept it.


 
then why can't sakura do anything against kakuzu or hidan???  she did beat an akatsuki that was known in all the world

bro go and read till chapter 486 that has come up now,chapter 488 will be on february 20th,u have plenty of time till then to read all the chapters

usopp stops being a character nobody likes anymore


----------



## Reddan (Feb 5, 2008)

MIHAWK said:


> obviously itachi will get killed by sasuke,it had nothing to do with the plot,just a random scene
> 
> 
> oh,is that so??? had or hadn't orochimaru's hideout kunai and curtains to take? so was it or was it not a filler chapter??? itachi vs sasuke is hinted since chapter 2,i guess it needed an introduction by a random old lady we will never see again
> ...



I also have no problem with the art in OP, though I prefer the more conventional type. What got me into OP was the opening chapters. I think story wise Naruto is slightly better, but OP is possibly equally as good. The relation of three powers, Gol D Roger the missing years of history are all great. I just don like the entire arcs, which in my opinion could be skipped out.

The biggest difference for me is that the characters in Naruto, though exaggerated, seem to have more depth.


----------



## MIHAWK. (Feb 5, 2008)

what story in naruto? sasuke vs itachi is a story? madara and shodaime is a story? they lived,they died,they are immortal,the end

what story? does naruto have a single riddle? the look alike? then they are related,that is how naruto works

who didn't knew madara was the statue? who didn't knew about yondaime being naruto's dad? who doesn't suspect madara having obito's body? even kishi mentioned that a huge drama will appearfor kakashi

i don't see a good plot in naruto,part 1 was like an introduction,oro in part 1 was a good plot twist but nothing more

if they used the other countries and made more riddles and mysteries then it would have a good plot,but IMO naruto is as narrow as DBZ

btw u were the one that started mentioning about survival,i agree that oda doesn't have the guts to kill a character but since when that is bad? deidara used a suicide technique TWICE,how the hell did he survive after he blow himself up the first time? that was the lamest thing i ever saw

on the other hand usopp's fights are comical and the whole OP is about follwoing your dreams,protecting your nakama,optimism and surviving through the rough challenges,i don't see why usopp dying would make it's plot better

only pell should have died and he should have more hype in his death and a huge funeral chapter after the fights

the hideout part was a chapter but so was the chest man

the drum arc was important,chopper needed a background and a reason to believe luffy,luffy stood up for him in that fight,anything less would be bad plot


----------



## Reddan (Feb 5, 2008)

MIHAWK said:


> what story in naruto? sasuke vs itachi is a story? madara and shodaime is a story? they lived,they died,they are immortal,the end
> 
> what story? does naruto have a single riddle? the look alike? then they are related,that is how naruto works
> 
> ...


 
Kishi does not like to have big reveal scenes. He likes to lay out hints all the way through and then finally confirm it. That's why everyone knew that Obito gave Kakashi his sharingan, Yondaime was Naruto's dad etc before hand. Tolkien is the same with his LOTR. He repeatedly hints that Aragorn is the king before revealing it later. He hints that Frodo won't destroy the ring, he hints that Arwen and Aragorn are a couple. I happen to like this style. Some prefer the big revelations.

As for the plot I enjoy the way it is all tired together. Madara appears to be the consistent evil, through out the series. He has been halted, by the previous Hokages, but it will be Naruto, who will succeed in defeating him where he others failed. This is linked with the Sasuke plot. Sasuke will succeed where the other Uchihas have felt and most likely escape from the curse of his clan. Both stories are linked together well and it flows nicely. 

Naruto did have riddles, but it is nearing the end so a lot of them have been answered. Why did the Kyuubi attack? Why did the fourth seal the Kyuubi in his son? Why did Itachi kill the clan? Who was the 3rd MS user? Why did the Uchiha figh SHodai at the VOTE? 

In my opinion having other countries and other mysteries would not add to the plot. They would simply be wild adventures for the sake of it that have nothing to do with the main plot. Could Kishi write an arc where Team Gai have a mission to assasinate a hidden rock jounin? Yes, but that would not help the plot. If Kishi wanted to he could do side stories of the Naruto world and that would be great, but his primary focus should be finishing telling THE STORY. Being narrow is not a bad thing. My favourite book LOTR in many ways is very narrow and has to be expanded upon by letters and other text.

The plot for OP is about Luffy wanting to be Pirate king if we put it in a nutshell. The bigger plot involves he corruption of the world government and the attempt to find out the truth. Many of he side stories are not needed. The Chopper story could have been finished in 5 chapters. They go to island. Find Chopper, who lives with local docor. Village hates Chopper, Luffy steps in to help Chopper, Chopper admires Luffy, Chopper leaves. I would have preferred for this much shorter version to take place after Alabastar rather than killing the tension.


----------



## Supa Swag (Feb 5, 2008)

arednad said:


> The drum Island arc seemed pointless to me. It should have been much shorter and only distracted from the Crocodile arc, which I thought was amazing.



Don't forget that Drum Island also foreshadowed Blackbeard.


----------



## Masaki (Feb 6, 2008)

I love how this thread wasn't made here two years ago when I made the original thread.


----------



## Glued (Feb 6, 2008)

> Why did the Uchiha figh SHodai at the VOTE?


 simple, to prove that Uchihas are not invincible, thus making Naruto defeating one more believable and secondly it serves to draw a parallel between Shodai, Madara, Naruto and Sasuke.


----------



## Dark World Lightning (Feb 6, 2008)

arednad said:


> Kishi does not like to have big reveal scenes. He likes to lay out hints all the way through and then finally confirm it. That's why everyone knew that Obito gave Kakashi his sharingan, Yondaime was Naruto's dad etc before hand. Tolkien is the same with his LOTR. He repeatedly hints that Aragorn is the king before revealing it later. He hints that Frodo won't destroy the ring, he hints that Arwen and Aragorn are a couple. I happen to like this style. Some prefer the big revelations.
> 
> As for the plot I enjoy the way it is all tired together. Madara appears to be the consistent evil, through out the series. He has been halted, by the previous Hokages, but it will be Naruto, who will succeed in defeating him where he others failed. This is linked with the Sasuke plot. Sasuke will succeed where the other Uchihas have felt and most likely escape from the curse of his clan. Both stories are linked together well and it flows nicely.
> 
> ...



Thank you for making a very intelligent post stating why you enjoy the plot of Naruto. It makes me less ashamed for enjoying this fandom.


----------



## MIHAWK. (Feb 6, 2008)

arednad said:


> Kishi does not like to have big reveal scenes. He likes to lay out hints all the way through and then finally confirm it. That's why everyone knew that Obito gave Kakashi his sharingan, Yondaime was Naruto's dad etc before hand. Tolkien is the same with his LOTR. He repeatedly hints that Aragorn is the king before revealing it later. He hints that Frodo won't destroy the ring, he hints that Arwen and Aragorn are a couple. I happen to like this style. Some prefer the big revelations.


 
LOTR>>>>>>naruto in every possible way,even the movie>>>>naruto



> As for the plot I enjoy the way it is all *tired* together. Madara appears to be the consistent evil, through out the series. He has been halted, by the previous Hokages, but it will be Naruto, who will succeed in defeating him where he others failed. This is linked with the Sasuke plot. Sasuke will succeed where the other Uchihas have felt and most likely escape from the curse of his clan. Both stories are linked together well and it flows nicely.


 
lol,as u said tired

the linked well means "i am an uchiha,uchiha>>>all" and "sasukeeee,come back" ??? 



> Naruto did have riddles, but it is nearing the end so a lot of them have been answered. Why did the Kyuubi attack? Why did the fourth seal the Kyuubi in his son? Why did Itachi kill the clan? Who was the 3rd MS user? Why did the Uchiha figh SHodai at the VOTE?


 
these are riddles>??? u kidding me? 

check my threads,i have predicted most of them

who cared why did the kyubi attack? when it was confirmed that yondaime=naruto's dad ur 2nd question was answered immediatelly in the next chapter by the constant answer in naruto that is "THAT JUTSU"

about the other riddles,itachi had no reason to kill the whole clan,he could kill just his parents,that would do the same job,what was the reason to kill them all??? kishi managed to contradict himself in the same chapter,he said itachi wanted sasuke to have the MS to take his eyes cause madara this way gained the eternal MS but he tried to take sasuke's eyes in the last chapter even though sasuke didn't have the MS,if that was the case why didn't he take sasuke's eyes when he was a child? why did sasuke have to gain the MS in the first place?

either he wants sasuke to gain the MS or he takes his eyes when he was small,great drinking there kishi



> In my opinion having other countries and other mysteries would not add to the plot. They would simply be wild adventures for the sake of it that have nothing to do with the main plot. Could Kishi write an arc where Team Gai have a mission to assasinate a hidden rock jounin? Yes, but that would not help the plot. If Kishi wanted to he could do side stories of the Naruto world and that would be great, but his primary focus should be finishing telling THE STORY. Being narrow is not a bad thing. My favourite book LOTR in many ways is very narrow and has to be expanded upon by letters and other text.


 
who said making side stories?? so u like having 5 countries with 3 unknown and the sand having less military than the ANBU? he should add some depth,i am tired of reading all about akatsuki,akatsuki,akatsuki

and how is the story progressing when naruto fails and he gets kicked around? sending naruto to get owned continuously is THE STORY



> The plot for OP is about Luffy wanting to be Pirate king if we put it in a nutshell. The bigger plot involves he corruption of the world government and the attempt to find out the truth. Many of he side stories are not needed. The Chopper story could have been finished in 5 chapters. They go to island. Find Chopper, who lives with local docor. Village hates Chopper, Luffy steps in to help Chopper, Chopper admires Luffy, Chopper leaves. I would have preferred for this much shorter version to take place after Alabastar rather than killing the tension.


 
if OP was that way it would suck even worse than naruto

the drum arc was amazing,luffy had to stood up for chopper and he did that by beating the biggest fear chopper had that time,wapol

also OP has: the will of D,the hidden history,the poneglyphs,why no one has gone to raftel these 22 years,what are the DF,who made them? why is the ocean affecting them? why isn't the GL following any physical rule? why did roger die when WB isn't caught? where is al blue? what is the paper ace gave to luffy? why did shanks choose specifically luffy? what did dragon meant with his speech? who and what is klabautermann? who and what is in (OP) the davy jones foxy mentioned

these are some riddles

also sanji is from west blue and he has been taught by someone to respect the ladies,chopper somehow found a DF,robin too,also who is her father olvia talked about? who is franky's dad? who is this dandan? zoro's biggest part of his flashback was filler,why was he in a dojo and trying to become the strongest swordsman out of the sudden?

these are some background stories that have to be analysed even further

in naruto either they are related or they are immortal or the sharingan is connected or THAT JUTSU

these are naruto's riddles,also they can be solved from day one

when the rinnengan was introduced i knew it was a hype for madara and his new sharingan since he orders pain around,i was posting it here but no one believed it,they all thought pein would betray the akatsuki or that he just listens to madara though he is more powerfull cause he has his reasons

now madara has proven an invincible immortal with the ultimate sharingan,am i a psykick or is naruto that predictable? i say the 2nd

i predicted about madara and shodai being the statues and how he beat madara,i said that itachi wanted sasuke to make him faint and then use him to perform with another MS user a ritual and revive the power of the whole uchiha clan into his eyes,i didn't imagine that itachi would just want his eyes,i actually thought he had a reason to kill the whole clan,the other things are prehinted so they were obvious (not that madara and shodai wasn't)

everything in naruto is obvious or easilly predictable,characters appear with no background story and the manga is all about the sharingan,the hyuga clan is like it doesn't exist,same with any other clan,great ninja story

anyways i am tired of this,u say the cat granny was needed but the drum wasn't,i have nothing more to say

everyone here has either watched OP till a certain point or he has been quoting what others said,90% of the people who are up tp date with the current chapters of both naruto and OP admit that OP is better

most OP fans here admit that naruto part 1 was great but part 2 is shit while most of the people who post here don't know what OP is,it is easy to understand that the most naruto supporters don't have a clue about OP simply cause they never read it or the saw some AMVs and read some info about it

saying usopp fails or one arc wasn't good for me doesn't prove in any way that OP doesn't>>> naruto,every naruto fan who respects his intelligence should admit that kishi is hardly trying to write a story and this thing can't compete with OP

if u were comparing part 1 with OP b4 they got into the GL then u might have a bigger chance but "part 2" of OP will start into the new world so the best are yet to come,something that i can't say for naruto


----------



## Hustler (Feb 6, 2008)

i love my naruto


----------



## Xell (Feb 6, 2008)

fultym_hustla said:


> i love my naruto



And I assume you've never seen One Piece?


----------



## Kuran (Feb 6, 2008)

naruto > OP


----------



## Masaki (Feb 6, 2008)

I like how only a select few Naruto supporters are giving any arguments because everyone else has never read OP.


----------



## afro luffy (Feb 6, 2008)

Hayate Gunryo said:


> naruto *<* OP



fixed that for ya


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Feb 6, 2008)

Thewrongway said:


> I couldn't read past the first hundred and twenty chapters before I decided to go do something more fun, like slam my dick in a car door.



Why would you read a hundred and twenty chapters of anything if you don't like it. It took you that long to figure out you didn't think it was a good read.


----------



## Masaki (Feb 6, 2008)

StrawHat4Life said:


> Why would you read a hundred and twenty chapters of anything if you don't like it. It took you that long to figure out you didn't think it was a good read.



Think that's long?  He still hasn't realized he doesn't like Naruto.


----------



## MIHAWK. (Feb 6, 2008)

i like how my posts are almost never commented

i guess analysing specifically the so called riddles,the plot holes,the change of the way kishi wrote in part 1 and 2 and how everything spins around the sharingan can't be countered by people who have never read OP and only know that "narutoz is da besten"

no one commented on sasuke and naruto's relationship being a ripoff of sakuragi's and rukawa's,no one commented about the sharingan being a ripoff of jagan and a few commented on naruto being a ripoffof luffy with the excuse of naruto is not a rubberman 



Aethos said:


> Watching paint dry is more productive and fun than Naruto has ever been.


 
lol,bro u r being harsh,there are still manga out there like tenjou tenge and air gear 

if bleach had a regular pace and it wasn't progressing 5 times slower than any other manga (though i have read that gintama has a slower pace than bleach ) it would be better than naruto


----------



## Jarl lKarl (Feb 6, 2008)

StrawHat4Life said:


> Why would you read a hundred and twenty chapters of anything if you don't like it. It took you that long to figure out you didn't think it was a good read.



Because everyone said that it got good after the first 100 or so chapters. But it turns out everyone was a dirty liar, it was still terrible. Waste all the time arguing about how you think the characters and story is totally interesting and original in One Piece and I'm an ignorant fuck for thinking otherwise, at the end of the day it's still totally subjective.


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Feb 6, 2008)

Thewrongway said:


> Because everyone said that it got good after the first 100 or so chapters. But it turns out everyone was a dirty liar, it was still terrible. Waste all the time arguing about how you think the characters and story is totally interesting and original in One Piece and I'm an ignorant fuck for thinking otherwise, at the end of the day it's still totally subjective.



What may I ask did you find so terrible about OP? Also do you think that Naruto is better then OP?


----------



## Naudara (Feb 6, 2008)

I haven't watched one piece, but the way it looks...doesn't look to 'serious' of a story line and more silly, so I might have to watch it. I've never liked pirates though. The only reason I took a large interest into Naruto was because the Zabuza arc was all deep and emotional. I thought it had heart, but a bit lately, it hasn't had that much of it.

It is going downhill, but I'm hoping it gets better.

I'm neutral. I don't deserve opinion, obviously.


----------



## MIHAWK. (Feb 6, 2008)

Thewrongway said:


> Because everyone said that it got good after the first 100 or so chapters. But it turns out everyone was a dirty liar, it was still terrible. Waste all the time arguing about how you think the characters and story is totally interesting and original in One Piece and I'm an ignorant fuck for thinking otherwise, at the end of the day it's still totally subjective.


 
i very much doubt u have read so many chapters

also i doubt even more that u read everyone and u didn't skip some

i think u either have watched some episodes from the dub occasionally or u r using second handed info

being in a NF guarentees we have read naruto but as this thread proves few have read OP and that few are the ones that accept it is either better or good but not better than naruto


----------



## competitionbros (Feb 6, 2008)

Thewrongway said:


> I couldn't read past the first hundred and twenty chapters before I decided to go do something more fun, like slam my dick in a car door.





120..........that's near the end of Little Garden right? Why would you read most of that arc and then just stop, you'd think you would at least finish it off. This leads me to believe you didn't read that much.


----------



## MIHAWK. (Feb 6, 2008)

competitionbros said:


> 120..........that's near the end of Little Garden right? Why would you read most of that arc and then just stop, you'd think you would at least finish it off. This leads me to believe you didn't read that much.


 
why would u say that? 

now a question to every OP fan,if someone asked u when OP gets really good would u answer after chapter 120 or after arlong's arc or smoker's arc?

what was so good about whisky peak (only zoro at the end) ,or drum (except chopper's FB and everything besides chopper like the fights etc) or little garden?? they were usual arcs

if the guy had read so many he would say i stopped in the arc with the giants,or in the desert island or anything like that

then we woudl believe he saw an AMV instead of believing he hasn't read the manga 

and be prepared for his return when he searches OP in WIKI


----------



## Kue (Feb 6, 2008)

I tried reading the first chapter... but dang, it's so unbearable to read.  So for sure, Naruto had a much better 'hook' than OP.


----------



## MIHAWK. (Feb 6, 2008)

bro is this a valid answer to compare them?


----------



## MIHAWK. (Feb 6, 2008)

why would u say that???


----------



## Toad Hermit (Feb 6, 2008)

I have to say One piece kicks ass. I stopped at episode 14 or so today where usop luffy and the gang fight with captain kuro

Story involves alot of drama action and comedy. I will start reading the manga once I reach the recent episode from the anime 

Its great to watch and read something that is as good as Naruto.

The only downside is people not dying.... atleast by readings your posts and watching till episode 14


----------



## Jarl lKarl (Feb 6, 2008)

competitionbros said:


> 120..........that's near the end of Little Garden right? Why would you read most of that arc and then just stop, you'd think you would at least finish it off. This leads me to believe you didn't read that much.



It's called an estimation jackass. I quit at about the time that they resolved to escort Princess Leia. If it wasn't chapter 120, it was after 110. And Mihawk can think whatever he wants about how much of it I read, I read every chapter from when Shanks loses his arm to the end of Whiskey Peak and still found it to be (with a very few exceptions) boring as hell.


----------



## MIHAWK. (Feb 6, 2008)

well that is a flaw for real

also dragging luffy's fights gets annoying most times



Thewrongway said:


> It's called an estimation jackass. I quit at about the time that they resolved to escort princess generic. If it wasn't chapter 120, it was after 110. And Mihawk can think whatever he wants about how much of it I read, I read every chapter from when Shanks loses his arm to the end of Whiskey Peak and still found it to be (with a very few exceptions) boring as hell.


 
it seems to me u r reading it THE WRONG WAY

also is it the truth? have u seen some random episodes? or using second handed info?

something is fishy here


----------



## MIHAWK. (Feb 6, 2008)

Thewrongway said:


> Nothing is fishy, you're just being a dense jackass. Believe it or not, I read it and didn't like it.


 
ok

i will accept u have read that,now let aside ur fanboyism for naruto,cool ur head,say gusfraba and then say to me what wasn't so apealling?

even kenshin wasn't the best but it had nothing to hate it for or stop reading it,u r just not as interested as u r with ur favourite ones

so what was so bad about it


----------



## Jarl lKarl (Feb 7, 2008)

MIHAWK said:


> ok
> 
> i will accept u have read that,now let aside ur fanboyism for naruto,cool ur head,say gusfraba and then say to me what wasn't so apealling?
> 
> ...



I could be really TL;DR about this, but the ultimate and greatest answer can be summed up as follows. One Piece is goofy as fuck. A lot of people like that. Some people even say that that's precisely why it's brilliant. I didn't like it. I didn't like the way the characters behaved, I didn't like any of the fights, and I didn't like the art. Without any of that, it was a pretty average-substandard Shonen series.


----------



## competitionbros (Feb 7, 2008)

Thewrongway said:


> It's called an estimation jackass. I quit at about the time that they resolved to escort Princess Leia. If it wasn't chapter 120, it was after 110. And Mihawk can think whatever he wants about how much of it I read, I read every chapter from when Shanks loses his arm to the end of Whiskey Peak and still found it to be (with a very few exceptions) boring as hell.





Don't call me a jackass just cuz I made a statement saying I don't believe you read it, instead of estimating the specific chapter you stopped why not just say what ARC you stopped at?


------------------------------------------

I've gotten into alot more series now than when I first started Naruto and with each passing series I get into Naruto just gets worse and worse. It went from being one of my favs to being something I can't even stand to watch/read. 


Looking back I see exactly why Naruto was one of my favs...........simply because I didn't have many animes to choose from. Only ones I had ever seen/read was DBZ, YYH, Trigun and Detective Conan. But now it's not even in my top twenties, let alone one of my favs. I'm starting to believe that's what most Naruto fans consist of: People that haven't seen many other animes. And notice I said MOST, not all.


----------



## Micku (Feb 7, 2008)

This thread should become a sticky. I doubt this topic will ever die. How long has it been? A week and a half since this thread was posted in the Library? And the One Piece version of this topic is still going on too. 

Anyway, I am still reading One Piece and I still say that Naruto is better in the beginning at grabbing my attention. Naruto do seem a bit more mature than One Piece in the beginning of the series. I'm still reading though, so I think One Piece would get better in the later chapters.


----------



## Jarl lKarl (Feb 7, 2008)

MIHAWK said:


> nope,u haven't read it
> 
> ur post is screaming:"i am lying bitcheeeessssssszzzzzz "



I tried to give an intelligent answer, but I clearly sought the wrong person. After all, it's not possible to not like One Piece, it's so clearly genius.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 7, 2008)

competitionbros said:


> Don't call me a jackass just cuz I made a statement saying I don't believe you read it, instead of estimating the specific chapter you stopped why not just say what ARC you stopped at?
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------
> ...



Personally I agree. When I got into Naruto the only other anime I had seen was DBZ, Sailor Moon, Tenchi, anything else on Toonami back in the day. So I felt Naruto was something new, fresh, and original.

Now I feel that it's the biggest piece of shit I've ever had the courtesy to read and Part 2 was the thing that convinced me of that. Not to mention branching out and reading other series like One Piece, Yu Yu Hakusho, HunterxHunter, etc.

So yeah it's probably no wonder people seem to like Naruto more. They haven't really seen much else to compare it too... well besides Bleach and Death Note but that's not really saying much either.


----------



## suprez (Feb 7, 2008)

The difference between the 2

Naruto : A group of 12 -15 years old
One Piece: a group of 17-40 years old

Naruto : The story is concentrated around 3-4 character and a province(village)
One Piece :The entire planet is used  ..The story is concentrated on 8-10 character right now 

Naruto plot right now  : Finding Sasuke for like 200 chapter
One Piece : Too much happening right now in One Piece to put it here

One Piece too much cartoony = Stereotype
I started with Naruto and when i started One Piece i though the same(The Anime) But it's ain't.

I prefeer watching Nami boob  bouncing and Robin ass than a 15 years old without boob.Actually Naruto is more for children/There's a lot more adult content in One Piece than Naruto.If that what you looking for to judge an anime.
I doubt in Naruto you see a girl assaulted while taking a shower.

I love both .Bit if i had to vote.One Piece
One Piece seem to be less popular in america for many reason and the principal is 4Kid.Kid don't post on many message board.Anyway the other problem is that OP is stereoptyped like a cartoon is just only for kid or how in movie you see only kid playing video game.Cliche more


----------



## Gritz (Feb 7, 2008)

I'm getting really tired of these OP fans telling me that I have never read OP if I like Naruto better than OP.  I just DO!  I just like Team 7's story better than the Straw Hat's.  

That's my story and I'M sticking to it.


----------



## Kaenboshi (Feb 7, 2008)

Aethos said:


> And it's people like you that show that the NaruTards have no idea what they're talking about when they put down One Piece.


Actually, as much I love One Piece, I have to say the start of the series takes it easy, so really it doesn't what some wouild call 'pick up' really
until about Mihawk's appearance or the Arlong arc, and not everyone is willing to wait until that point.


Gritz said:


> I'm getting really tired of these OP fans telling me that I have never read OP if I like Naruto better than OP.  I just DO!  I just like Team 7's story better than the Straw Hat's.
> 
> *That's my story and I'M sticking to it.*


And this tells me all I need to know.


----------



## MIHAWK. (Feb 7, 2008)

Gritz said:


> I'm getting really tired of these OP fans telling me that I have never read OP if I like Naruto better than OP. I just DO! I just like Team 7's story better than the Straw Hat's.
> 
> That's my story and I'M sticking to it.


 
if u really have read OP and u still like naruto more than we repsect that,it'sur opinion,nobody can change that

but see the posts and answer me,how many of the people that posted here actually read OP?

Kaenboshi dude indeed mihawk is magic 

my rep is over for 24 hours,if i don't rep u sonnie and i forget it send me a PM!!

same with suprez


----------



## Micku (Feb 7, 2008)

Aethos said:


> And it's people like you that show that the NaruTards have no idea what they're talking about when they put down One Piece.




In a way I agree, because a series could get better over time. But One Piece don't really have that much of a attention grab power in the beginning. Naruto was much better at that for me. It starts off slow, but so did Dragonball. Dragonball didn't really get popular until the first tournament. When I was reading the manga, I wasn't really into it UNTIL the first tournament started. 

I could understand why people don't really get into One Piece. Compare to Naruto's start, One Piece is lacking of excitement, maturity, and themes.




			
				suprez said:
			
		

> I love both .Bit if i had to vote.One Piece
> One Piece seem to be less popular in america for many reason and the principal is 4Kid.Kid don't post on many message board.Anyway the other problem is that OP is stereoptyped like a cartoon is just only for kid or how in movie you see only kid playing video game.Cliche more



I'm reading the manga in the beginning right now, and I still say that One Piece does seem a bit more kiddy in the beginning than Naruto is. It may change as I pointed out above, but the beginning of One Piece does not help the stereotype decrease. I saw parts of the anime later on in the series, and it does seem bit...nonchalant of being serious compared to Naruto. At first sight, it does not seem like there are any serious emotions involve in the story. So I don't blame people for thinking this way. The way I see it, you have to have patience to read/watch One Piece in order for to pick up. In Naruto, you don't have to wait long.


When Naruto was on it's Wave Arc, which is probably considered one of the best Arcs of Naruto of this forum, One Piece was already done with it's Buggy The Clown Arc and was on it's Usopp Arc or something. I could understand why people will choice Naruto over One Piece at this point.


----------



## MIHAWK. (Feb 7, 2008)

bro watch the anime instead,it has no dragging on and u could just skip fillers

the anime has many amazing music themes

possibly only sadness and sorrow from naruto or lee's and hinata's theme are the only ones that can compare with OP's

pick the anime,THEN read the manga!

btw ATTENTION TO ALL PEOPLE! START READING OP TILL U SEE THE EPIC ME APPEARING!!


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 7, 2008)

Kaenboshi said:


> Actually, as much I love One Piece, I have to say the start of the series takes it easy, so really it doesn't what some wouild call 'pick up' really
> until about Mihawk's appearance or the Arlong arc, and not everyone is willing to wait until that point.
> And this tells me all I need to know.



The first two chapters of Naruto aren't all that interesting either to be honest, but I was referring more to the fact that he gave it up after the first chapter.



Micku said:


> In a way I agree, because a series could get better over time. But One Piece don't really have that much of a attention grab power in the beginning. Naruto was much better at that for me. It starts off slow, but so did Dragonball. Dragonball didn't really get popular until the first tournament. When I was reading the manga, I wasn't really into it UNTIL the first tournament started.
> 
> I could understand why people don't really get into One Piece. Compare to Naruto's start, One Piece is lacking of excitement, maturity, and themes.



It's just too bad wave country was the attention grabber and then it just went steadily downhill from that point.


----------



## Fang (Feb 7, 2008)

You mean after Part I in Naruto. The introduction and character development of Team Gai, the Sand Trio, Sound Five, the Rookie 9, Sandaime/Asuma, Kisame and Orochimaru were fantastic in my eyes.


----------



## competitionbros (Feb 7, 2008)

Naruto started off strong and just got slower and slower.........One Piece started off slow and gradually picked up speed. Basically Naruto's a sprinter and One Piece is a conservative runner: Kishi exploded all the greatness that Naruto has had into the beginning and just let the series got slow and terrible whereas Oda just used the beginning as a slow "gathering of crewmates" and just picked up greatly from there.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Feb 7, 2008)

For those who read both uptil now i can understand they think Naruto is equal or close to OP cause of part 1.

But as for part 2 its doesnt feel like the good old Naruto at all, its just about Sasuke and a Naruto who isnt a kickass hardworker like he used to be, it just sucks.

And for those people who thinks Naruto as a whole is way better than OP without even trying to get into OP, seriously need to get their eyes checked.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 7, 2008)

> You mean after Part I in Naruto. The introduction and character development of Team Gai, the Sand Trio, Sound Five, the Rookie 9, Sandaime/Asuma, Kisame and Orochimaru were fantastic in my eyes.



Most Naruto fans say wave country was the best arc in the series. It's obvious that while the rest of part one was decent. Wave country was the absolute peak of the series.


----------



## Micku (Feb 7, 2008)

Aethos said:


> The first two chapters of Naruto aren't all that interesting either to be honest, but I was referring more to the fact that he gave it up after the first chapter.



Almost all first chapters in any manga aren't really that interesting. The best that I've read was Kenshin though. ^.^




Aethos said:


> It's just too bad wave country was the attention grabber and then it just went steadily downhill from that point.



Maybe it's my Naruto fanboyism, but I don't think Naruto started going downhill after the Wave Arc. The Chuunin Arc was also just as good if not better than the Wave Arc. And it's probably also consider one of the best Arcs of Naruto of this forum. I think when during the Chuunin Arc, that's how Naruto got it's huge fanbase too. Tons of different character and development and stuff. The introduction of Gaara, Orochimaru, and Rock Lee were pretty cool. But it's all in the matter of opinion I guess, but I still feel that with the Chuunin Arc, that's where Naruto started to get more fans. 

You could agure that the Tsunade Arc that Naruto was going downhill, but I personally liked it. Recuse Sasuke could be another agurement. 

To me, Naruto started going downhill after the Recuse Gaara Arc in Part 2. That's when it lost the feeling of what Naruto was like in Part 1.

Overall, Part 1 of Naruto was awesome to me. It started off great, and even the later arcs of Part 1 was not as epic as the earlier ones, it was still good. One Piece just did not start as well as Naruto did, but in the end, One Piece probably became better over time while Naruto decreased over time. There are animes that do that. 

Like Inuyasha, which had a great start. 

People just have different taste. Naruto is more popular in America and probably other western countries while One Piece is more popular in Japan and other countries in the East.

Same thing with Metal Gear Solid. Metal Gear is more popular in the West than in the East. 

Pokemon is still popular in the East and it's not popular in the West anymore. 

The only animes that were probably universal accepted were Dragonball and Pokemon during it's time of glory.


----------



## sasuke sama (Feb 7, 2008)

I completely lost interest in OP during and after the rescue of Nico Robin arc. 
It just made me realize that Oda has so much potential with his characters and overall world that he creates, but instead of doing something with it he is just constantly avoiding the stuff that made the series interesting.
The one thing that got me hyped and made me believe in the series was the in between arc chapters after Nico Robin rescue. 
As in the meeting between Shanks and whitebeard, the Ace vs blackbeard fight. Insetad he went on making some weird and just overall boring arc about ghost. That is where I stopped and realized that Oda is just making countless new arcs with countless new villians that will never ever bring the whole OP series to a conclusion. 
I used to love One piece.. But now I can't even bring myself to read it.. Sad.. 

Naruto on the other hand keeps me absolutely captivated week after week. 
Can't really bother to point out the reasons why though since afterall it will come down to taste and own judgement.

But for me: Naruto > One Piece


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 7, 2008)

sasuke sama said:


> It just made me realize that Oda has so much potential with his characters and overall world that he creates, but instead of doing something with it he is just constantly avoiding the stuff that made the series interesting.



And this is from a Naruto fan... A NARUTO FAN! 

I-I'm sorryr but even though I can respect your opinion and all because you've read so far in there. I just see so much irony in that statemtne that it's going to make me laugh myself to death.


> Almost all first chapters in any manga aren't really that interesting. The best that I've read was Kenshin though. ^.^



Yeah but what was so great about Konohamaru? "LAWL Naruto beat an elite jounin and the hokage with his perverted jutsu he's going to be hokage some day."



> Maybe it's my Naruto fanboyism, but I don't think Naruto started going downhill after the Wave Arc. The Chuunin Arc was also just as good if not better than the Wave Arc. And it's probably also consider one of the best Arcs of Naruto of this forum. I think when during the Chuunin Arc, that's how Naruto got it's huge fanbase too. Tons of different character and development and stuff. The introduction of Gaara, Orochimaru, and Rock Lee were pretty cool. But it's all in the matter of opinion I guess, but I still feel that with the Chuunin Arc, that's where Naruto started to get more fans.
> 
> You could agure that the Tsunade Arc that Naruto was going downhill, but I personally liked it. Recuse Sasuke could be another agurement.
> 
> ...



I thought Part 1 was good. I feel the peak of the series was Kakashi Gaiden. But then Naruto the series took a nosedive into a ocean of shit and refused to come back up.


----------



## Supa Swag (Feb 7, 2008)

sasuke sama said:


> I completely lost interest in OP during and after the rescue of Nico Robin arc.
> It just made me realize that Oda has so much potential with his characters and overall world that he creates, but instead of doing something with it he is just constantly avoiding the stuff that made the series interesting.
> The one thing that got me hyped and made me believe in the series was the in between arc chapters after Nico Robin rescue.
> As in the meeting between Shanks and whitebeard, the Ace vs blackbeard fight. Insetad he went on making some weird and just overall boring arc about ghost. That is where I stopped and realized that Oda is just making countless new arcs with countless new villians that will never ever bring the whole OP series to a conclusion.




How is it countless villains when Oda introduced TWO Shichibukai in that arc? The Strawhats are bound to meet all of the Shichibukai.


----------



## Fuyuu Hidarite (Feb 7, 2008)

Inari own the OP universe. 

I like Naruto much more than OP. Why? Because OP is always a plot no jutsu. If Luffy can?t beat the enemy, he gets pissed, starts to do something bizarre and ends winning (he does that almost everytime he has a hard battle). Sincerely, I like Naruto, and OP only in games.


----------



## competitionbros (Feb 7, 2008)

Fuyuu Hidarite said:


> Inari own the OP universe.
> 
> I like Naruto much more than OP. Why? Because OP is always a plot no jutsu. *If Luffy can´t beat the enemy, he gets pissed, starts to do something bizarre and ends winning (he does that almost everytime he has a hard battle)*. Sincerely, I like Naruto, and OP only in games.





Wow....really? At least Luffy's bizarre things _change_ instead of just being the same old fox chakra except stronger.


Luffy against Crocodile- uses water to hit him then uses his blood when there's no water and a new move called "Gomu Gomu no storm".


Naruto against Neji- uses fox chakra and shadow clones to catch Nejio offguard.

--------------------------------------------------

Luffy against Lucci- Uses new attacks "Gear second" and "third"



Naruto against Gaara- uses fox chakra and summon



----------------------------

Luffy against Oz/Moria- has shadows forced into him for power boost, combines gear second and third


Naruto against Sasuke- uses fox chakra and shadow clones, ends with rasengan.





Sorry but I don't find your argument against Luffy valid.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 7, 2008)

Fuyuu Hidarite said:


> Inari own the OP universe.
> 
> I like Naruto much more than OP. Why? Because OP is always a plot no jutsu. If Luffy can?t beat the enemy, he gets pissed, starts to do something bizarre and ends winning (he does that almost everytime he has a hard battle). Sincerely, I like Naruto, and OP only in games.



"Oh no I'm in a pinch. Good thing I have THAT jutsu!"

Seriously Naruto is the king of plot no jutsu. So shut your mouth.


----------



## Shishi-O (Feb 7, 2008)

sharingan haxx broke naruto, there is now no one that can beat sasuke. end of manga


----------



## Ark 2.0 (Feb 7, 2008)

Shishi-O said:


> sharingan haxx broke naruto, there is now no one that can beat sasuke. end of manga



argh...but what if sasuke is just a genjustu..argh?


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 7, 2008)

And constantly saying "Naruto is da best even if I havent read Op farther then chapter 1/120 out of 487" IS?!!



arednad said:


> I personally think that Naruto is a lot better, though I enjoy both. I have over half of Op and am familiar with the entire story. The first thing that annoys me about OP is the needless filler arcs. For example I know it was just one chapter, but the when they meet the man in the chest it was extremely boring. ALso felt the chopper arc was pretty much filler too.
> 
> I prefer the fights in Naruto to the OP ones. There have been some incredible fights that I have seen in OP such as Zoro vs Mr 1 and Luffy crocodiel, but others have been extremely stupid. Ussop suriving being hit in the face with a 4 ton button during an epic arc is too unbelievable.
> 
> I know people hate that Kishi does not focus on the lesser characters, but thats the way life is. Hard work will only get you so far, especially if you are up against a genius. It was set up from the start that the K12 had hierarchy. Sasuke and Naruto had more potential than the others. Followed by the likes of Sakura, Neji and Shikmaru. Lee a favourite among here was never going to be in he class of he big 2. Thats how life works. Crisitano Ronaldo (Sasuke) is always going to be a better player than a Gareth Barry no matter how hard the other works.



_"I personally think that Naruto is a lot better, though I enjoy both. I have over half of Op and am familiar with the entire story. The first thing that annoys me about OP is the needless filler arcs. For example I know it was just one chapter, but the when they meet the man in the chest it was extremely boring. ALso felt the chopper arc was pretty much filler too. "_

First of all-"filler" is an anime/movie device.It has NOTHING to do with manga.
PLUS-what you described is NOT filler but a "backstory",I know for a Naruto fan this must be a completely new experience.AND if you would complain about OP's anime fillers-WELL,first of,alot of them are GOOD,AND with Naruto having 1 YEAR of fillers,you realy cant be serious.

_"I prefer the fights in Naruto to the OP ones. There have been some incredible fights that I have seen in OP such as Zoro vs Mr 1 and Luffy crocodiel, but others have been extremely stupid. Ussop suriving being hit in the face with a 4 ton button during an epic arc is too unbelievable. "_

Yes,while naruto surviving skin pealage IS so BELIEVABLE!

_"The plot for OP is about Luffy wanting to be Pirate king if we put it in a nutshell. The bigger plot involves he corruption of the world government and the attempt to find out the truth. Many of he side stories are not needed. The Chopper story could have been finished in 5 chapters. They go to island. Find Chopper, who lives with local docor. *Village hates Chopper, Luffy steps in to help Chopper, Chopper admires Luffy, Chopper leaves.* I would have preferred for this much shorter version to take place after Alabastar rather than killing the tension."_

Dear Boy,I will ask you one thing.Wouldnt that be just a BIT too,I dunno, SIMPLE and uncreative?PLUS-WHAT is so "bad and uneeded" about knowing the protagonist' backgroung?
Yes-Skypiea,Alabasta,Thriller Bark,Water 7,Arlong,Baratie,Drum and Enies Lobby REALY had ALOT TO DO with Luffy wanting to become pirate king.



Hayate Gunryo said:


> naruto > OP



That is so false and utterly untrue in so many ways.

1-OP is the curent MOST SELING Manga and 3th best seling all time (and NO,Naruto is NOT number 4).Also,it came out when OP did,but OP has 100 extra chapters of STORY.So...........



Masaki said:


> I like how only a select few Naruto supporters are giving any arguments because everyone else has never read OP.



Some of them who DIDNT read it STIL give "arguments" (viz AkuOni) ,but they arent worth squat (cause their untrue AND match Naruto 100%-tly)



Thewrongway said:


> I couldn't read past the first hundred and twenty chapters before I decided to go do something more fun, like slam my dick in a car door.



Do you realise just how IGNORANT you are when you say that?



MIHAWK said:


> i like how my posts are almost never commented
> 
> i guess analysing specifically the so called riddles,the plot holes,the change of the way kishi wrote in part 1 and 2 and how everything spins around the sharingan can't be countered by people who have never read OP and only know that "narutoz is da besten"
> 
> no one commented on sasuke and naruto's relationship being a ripoff of sakuragi's and rukawa's,no one commented about the sharingan being a ripoff of jagan and a few commented on naruto being a ripoffof luffy with the excuse of naruto is not a rubberman



Dont forget "One Piece sucks!Naruto Rulez!" coments.



Naudara said:


> I haven't watched one piece, but the way it looks...doesn't look to 'serious' of a story line and more silly, so I might have to watch it. I've never liked pirates though. The only reason I took a large interest into Naruto was because the Zabuza arc was all deep and emotional. I thought it had heart, but a bit lately, it hasn't had that much of it.
> 
> It is going downhill, but I'm hoping it gets better.
> 
> I'm neutral. I don't deserve opinion, obviously.



Its dead serious,dear.
*Spoiler*: __ 



like killing out the entiere population of an island just to make sure not a SINGLE person knowing the truth about the Ancient Kingdom could escape.Or chasing a six year old girl by grown soldiers with guns and making people betray her for 20 years..........Or the whole Enies Lobby.






Lynslayer said:


> I tried reading the first chapter... but dang, it's so unbearable to read.  So for sure, Naruto had a much better 'hook' than OP.



There are only several milion more people then Naruto ever had that will disagree with you.AND EVERY introduction of a series kinda isnt all that much (Yu-gi-oh didnt realy have an interesting opening,Naruto's begining bores me to death,666 satan and HXH both are slow to start)



competitionbros said:


> Wow....really? At least Luffy's bizarre things _change_ instead of just being the same old fox chakra except stronger.
> 
> 
> Luffy against Crocodile- uses water to hit him then uses his blood when there's no water and a new move called "Gomu Gomu no storm".
> ...



Simple-it ISNT valid.


----------



## Clearmoon (Feb 7, 2008)

Neither are perfect, but OP's lack of lasting character development, lack of any threat to characters (lol Pell) including massive PIS/CIS/DEM and a repetitive story structure with a really slow pace kinda wins Naruto this one. Oh, and the fillerlite chapters at the start of every arc are annoying as well (like some of the islands at the start of Alabasta arc, most of Skypeia and the start of TB) are annoying too.

Oh and of course Usopp (I admit he isn't quite as bad as he is in the anime, and Sogeking is pretty amusing, but I still wish he would have left the crew at W7, his crying, bitching, whining, false bravado and lying pisses me off). Whenever I see his face, I take the story a little less seriously and enjoy it a little less.

OP certainly isn't all bad though. 

Naruto on the other hand has poor writing in places, too much sharingan hype, and can drag at times, but generally has a more engaging and unpredictable story with likable characters (mostly) and some fairly decent villians (Akatsuki were an interesting bunch on the whole, and Oro was a great villian too). 

Though, at times, Luffy is a supurb main character, far supassing Naruto. The middle/end of Arlong park arc and parts of EL show he can be excellent at handling situations and friends and you actually take him seriously when he gets pissed. I just wish OP would have more *real emotional moments *like these, and not the horrible mess that was Usopp rejoined the crew when they left W7 (All the snot, tears and whining made me drop the anime).


----------



## Gritz (Feb 7, 2008)

Will somebody please close this topic?  Both sides are equally stubborn, and are not giving in ANYTIME soon.  

The OP fans want Kishi to do things like Oda, but refuse to realize that Kishi is NOT ODA! Kishi is Kishi and is going to do things his way.  NOT Oda's way.  Same with Oda, Naruto fans.

Personally, I think the OP fans are snobs who look down on Naruto and Naruto fans just because they like Naruto better.  I have NOT seen many Naruto fans startin shit like this.  

This bullshit is getting ridiculous.  

Can the OP fan who started this topic please GO BACK to the OP section and STAY THERE!?

There should be a new rule against making topics like this in the Konoha Library.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 7, 2008)

WHEN did I say I want Kishimoto to do things like Oda?I DONT WANT HIM TO,I just say Oda is a better writer.

And things like Kuma's apearance on Thriller Bark REALY outnumber the so called "unpredicabelness" of Naruto.OP wins on that forte 100%.


----------



## Neo-jplaya (Feb 7, 2008)

Gritz said:


> Will somebody please close this topic?  Both sides are equally stubborn, and are not giving in ANYTIME soon.
> 
> The OP fans want Kishi to do things like Oda, but refuse to realize that Kishi is NOT ODA! Kishi is Kishi and is going to do things his way.  NOT Oda's way.  Same with Oda, Naruto fans.
> 
> ...


yea, it's like the Mario and Sonic debates of the 90's. tho OP is slightly better, since it can have longer longevity than OP.


----------



## Yamato (Inactive) (Feb 7, 2008)

Naruto characters can use genjutsu so OP people are screwed


----------



## Nodonn (Feb 7, 2008)

Lobolover said:


> WHEN did I say I want Kishimoto to do things like Oda?I DONT WANT HIM TO,*I just say Oda is a better writer.
> *
> And things like Kuma's apearance on Thriller Bark REALY outnumber the so called "unpredicabelness" of Naruto.OP wins on that forte 100%.



Not really hard, Kishi pretty much fucked up a story that had potential.


----------



## Jarl lKarl (Feb 7, 2008)

Lobolover said:


> Do you realise just how IGNORANT you are when you say that?



I gave it as much of a chance as any fictional work deserves and didn't like it. I wasn't aware we had changed the definition of ignorant to 'having a contrary opinion'.


----------



## Neo-jplaya (Feb 7, 2008)

Yamato said:


> Naruto characters can use genjutsu so OP people are screwed


Enel has mantra, so Genjutsu does nothing.


----------



## Masaki (Feb 7, 2008)

Aethos said:


> The first two chapters of Naruto aren't all that interesting either to be honest, but I was referring more to the fact that he gave it up after the first chapter.



Not sure about manga, but episode 1 of Naruto was pretty good.  Episode 2 was epic fail, but it could have been acceptable if Konohamaru actually had a purpose in the series.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 7, 2008)

I think that whatever it is is useles against a black hole.


----------



## alexs2602 (Feb 7, 2008)

tictactoc said:


> The opinions won't change here OP. People hate Naruto on this forum.



Lmao, ironic if you think of it because it's a naruto fan forum


----------



## Supa Swag (Feb 7, 2008)

Gritz said:


> Will somebody please close this topic?  Both sides are equally stubborn, and are not giving in ANYTIME soon.
> 
> The OP fans want Kishi to do things like Oda, but refuse to realize that Kishi is NOT ODA! Kishi is Kishi and is going to do things his way.  NOT Oda's way.  Same with Oda, Naruto fans.
> 
> ...




You realize you're the only person right now complaining about this thread right?

If you don't like the topic stay out of it.


----------



## Neo-jplaya (Feb 7, 2008)

You think the Naru-hate here is bad??? you should see the OBD....


----------



## C-Moon (Feb 7, 2008)

Neo-jplaya said:


> You think the Naru-hate here is bad??? you should see the OBD....



It's not that they're hated, just that Narutoverse characters have no business fighting characters from the other 2 members of the shounen trinity.

Srsly, Sasuke Vs. Kenpachi? Terrible.


----------



## venomx316x (Feb 7, 2008)

how come naruto is more popular than OP if OP is supposed to be better....?   ...i guess not enough exposure in the states...and i guess most pple would pick a guy with whiskers over some1 with a straw hat....


----------



## materpillar (Feb 7, 2008)

couldn't kyuubi take out quite a few of the OP characters?  I've never really read much OP...


----------



## Neo-jplaya (Feb 7, 2008)

materpillar said:


> couldn't kyuubi take out quite a few of the OP characters?  I've never really read much OP...


only folks pre-Alabasta. post that, no chance in hell


----------



## MIHAWK. (Feb 7, 2008)

venomx316x said:


> how come naruto is more popular than OP if OP is supposed to be better....?  ...i guess not enough exposure in the states...and i guess most pple would pick a guy with whiskers over some1 with a straw hat....


 
OP is third in manga selling of all times,1st is DB and it away by 20 mill or so,u can see that OP will surpass it soon enough

second by a hair is kochi kame but only because it has 150 volumes while OP has less the one third of it

so OP will become the first soon enough in the best selling manga of all times

needless to say its the best selling and most favourited/popular modern manga,naruto is almost 70 mill,naruto has over 300 mill



Thewrongway said:


> I gave it as much of a chance as any fictional work deserves and didn't like it. I wasn't aware we had changed the definition of ignorant to 'having a contrary opinion'.


u do understand that nobody believes u?

in the best case u watched a couple random episodes from different arcs

btw why does everyone say that naruto and OP started together? OP started in 1997,even the first try in naruto (kinda like romance dawn) was published after OP was officially being published by shonen jump

u can see the huge differance in naruto's confidence and character in that issue,he was like a whinning crybaby but luffy was the same in romance dawn

eventually the manga naruto started being published but shonen jump after the OP anime started

hence the differance in chapters and episodes,who was the one that made u believe they started in the same time??? would i say that naruto is a luffy ripoff if they started the same time???


----------



## Jarl lKarl (Feb 7, 2008)

MIHAWK said:


> u do understand that nobody believes u?
> 
> in the best case u watched a couple random episodes from different arcs



It doesn't matter if you don't believe me, reality isn't subjective. I read as much as I could stand, decided I didn't like it, and choosing not to believe it won't change the fact that it's true.


----------



## MIHAWK. (Feb 7, 2008)

Thewrongway said:


> It doesn't matter if you don't believe me, reality isn't subjective. I read as much as I could stand, decided I didn't like it, and choosing not to believe it won't change the fact that it's true.


 
yeah,yeah,yeah,i am not 14,spare me the laughs

a couple random episodes of different arcs at best

and u couldn't think of a smaller number of 120?

this reminds me of when i was with the 12 year old brother of an ex girlfriend and we were talking about the gym and he said he lifted 200 kilos in the bench press


----------



## EverEndingStory (Feb 7, 2008)

I haven't actually read too much of One Piece. I first watched the English versions, and those sucked horribly. I was put off it for awhile, but my friends kept telling me to read the manga or watch the Japanese version.

I did, and it is pretty good. They both have their pros and cons.

I enjoy the light hearted, humorous tone of One Piece, but I also like the dark, seriousness of Naruto and the village politics and life-lessons woven within.

The One Piece artist (don't know his name) is a much better artist then Kishimoto, though I prefer Kishi's ninja-punk style to One Piece's goofy, deformed, and sometimes ugly look.

I love the fights in Naruto. they are possibly the biggest thing that draws me to the series. I love the tactical side it takes to its battles, which contrasts with the often times repetitive 'i'm stronger so i win' formula used in most other shonen manga, including One Piece.

I like the One Piece characters, and I love the huge amount of characters, all of them being colorful and original. But, few of them have the amount of depth and character development given to almost all of the characters that appear in Naruto. The characters in both are engaging and interesting, but over a long period of time, I would much rather watch the plights and problems of Naruto over the fun adventures of Luffy.

So, I like both, but overall, I have to give this to Naruto.


----------



## MIHAWK. (Feb 7, 2008)

EverEndingStory said:


> I haven't actually read too much of One Piece. I first watched the English versions, and those sucked horribly. I was put off it for awhile, but my friends kept telling me to read the manga or watch the Japanese version.
> 
> I did, and it is pretty good. They both have their pros and cons.
> 
> ...


 
lol,now that is AN ANSWER!!!

bro if u read more of OP u will find much darker secrets in it than naruto

and though it's objective i like zoro's fights better than anything naruto has shown but that is just me


----------



## Micku (Feb 7, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Yeah but what was so great about Konohamaru? "LAWL Naruto beat an elite jounin and the hokage with his perverted jutsu he's going to be hokage some day."



Konohamaru was filler  And I agree that chapter suck and it's like a side story. A needless side story that has little revalant to the main story. It's been done before in other animes so meh. Besides, the chapter after the that was when we were introduce to Sasuke and Sakura, which was pretty cool.



			
				Lobolover said:
			
		

> First of all-"filler" is an anime/movie device.It has NOTHING to do with manga.
> PLUS-what you described is NOT filler but a "backstory",I know for a Naruto fan this must be a completely new experience.AND if you would complain about OP's anime fillers-WELL,first of,alot of them are GOOD,AND with Naruto having 1 YEAR of fillers,you realy cant be serious.



While it's true that filler is an anime/movie device, I think most people watch the anime more than they read the manga. I've heard that One Piece fillers are better than Naruto fillers, and I can't really place an opinion on it because I never watch the One Piece anime throughly, but Naruto fillers were bad in my eyes. Well, some of them. I hardly watch the anime to be begin with though. 



			
				Lobolover said:
			
		

> That is so false and utterly untrue in so many ways.
> 
> 1-OP is the curent MOST SELING Manga and 3th best seling all time (and NO,Naruto is NOT number 4).Also,it came out when OP did,but OP has 100 extra chapters of STORY.So...........



Now I wouldn't say that. Naruto is probably better than One Piece in some aspects and One Piece is better than Naruto in other aspects. And just because something outsold another does not mean that it is better. It just means that it's more mainstream. Quality over Quanity takes place here. 

For example, I consider final fantasy 7 better than final fantasy 8. But FF8 sold more than FF7 on it's opening day. Another example is Spider Man 3. Spider Man 3 sold way more than Spider Man 2, but most people consider Spider Man 2 to be the best. 

And I think most people in the forums consider Hunter x Hunter better than Naruto, but Naruto sold more (correct if I'm wrong, because I'm not so sure). Detective Conan gets more views on TV than One Piece, does it make better? Just because something is more popular does not mean it is better in quality. 

And I think Dragonball is the second most sold manga right? I don't know what's the first, but I doubt I will like it better than the mangas I've read.

And apprently Naruto is more popular here than it is in Japan. Why? It's probably because 4kids just messed up One Piece so bad that so it'll never be as popular as Naruto or because people here just think that Naruto is better than One Piece. 

It's more complex. You may think that One Piece is better than Naruto, but others could come with a decent arguement that Naruto is better than One Piece. 

I'm still reading One Piece. The reason why I'm reading One Piece is because other people say that it's better than Naruto. To me, it isn't better than Naruto yet, but when I get to the later chapters it may.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Feb 7, 2008)

MIHAWK said:


> moving into insults will prove ur point even better,GTFO,this is a thread about OP vs naruto,when u learn something about OP then return to get pwned again
> 
> and that dumbfuck>>>>>u
> 
> as a friend of mine sais: *shou shou*



Well with the recent chapters of Naruto i cant possibly see any reason for Naruto>OP to be true.

At least i dont think so.

And lol wrongway, maybe you should read the remaining before saying bullshit?

You have actually missed out on the best to come.


----------



## Ari (Feb 7, 2008)

I like Naruto better.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 7, 2008)

EverEndingStory said:


> The One Piece artist (don't know his name) is a much better artist then Kishimoto, .



Try Eiichiro Oda.

And believe me,theres alot of development,its just-you cant have as much development with 8 main characters and the whole world as a seting,then one villiage and 3 characters.


----------



## SS Kenpachi (Feb 7, 2008)

I like naruto better but iv honestly never read one piece but this thread has gotten me interested in it so ill prolly start it...but nothing will beat bleach for me cuz i love the sword play..and kenpachis a beast


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 7, 2008)

Micku said:


> "Originally Posted by Aethos
> That is so false and utterly untrue in so many ways.
> 
> 1-OP is the curent MOST SELING Manga and 3th best seling all time (and NO,Naruto is NOT number 4).Also,it came out when OP did,but OP has 100 extra chapters of STORY.So..........."
> ...



Uhm sorry for the double post,will edit it later,but-I SAID THAT(in the original quote).NOT AETHOS.


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Feb 7, 2008)

Both series clearly have their own virtues and a lot of OP fans like myself started out as Naruto fans. This debate doesn't need to devolve into petty name calling. There are valid points to be made on both sides.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Feb 7, 2008)

Also let me add this PM i received earlier today:



			
				Seiko said:
			
		

> Sasuke is hot and made of awesome.
> 
> Zoro is a pathetic flat character created by an amateur mangaka.



Notice the word AMATEUR


----------



## Clearmoon (Feb 7, 2008)

The problem with One Piece and serious issues and events (e.g. Nico Robin's past, EL events etc), is due to the art, the fact that no-one can die in current time, and the sometimes two dimensional personalities many of the characters have, it's easy to think "why do I care". However, when Jiraiya died in Naruto, I did care as he was a well developed character.

The only serious issues done well in One Piece was Nami's past in my opinion, and to a lesser extent, some of the stuff with Robin when in EL and the death of Saulo (Edit: Oh and Zoro's past with Kuina was well done too, but most of this was in East Blue). So stop saying, "One Piece is really deep if you read more of it", as it isn't really, or at least most of the scenes that were supposed to be deep were executed poorly.


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Feb 7, 2008)

ClearMoon said:


> The problem with One Piece and serious issues and events (e.g. Nico Robin's past, EL events etc), is due to the art, the fact that no-one can die in current time, and the sometimes two dimensional personalities many of the characters have, it's easy to think "why do I care". However, when Jiraiya died in Naruto, I did care as he was a well developed character.
> 
> The only serious issues done well in One Piece was Nami's past in my opinion, and to a lesser extent, some of the stuff with Robin when in EL and the death of Saulo. So stop saying, "One Piece is really deep if you read more of it", as it isn't really, or at least most of the scenes that were supposed to be deep were executed poorly.



Oda doesn't like killing off characters it's as simple as that. It's not because of some deficiency in the storyline.

What about Franky's past? and I don't want to spoil it but Brooke's flashback is about as emotional as you can get hands down.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 7, 2008)

It IS deep.And the scenes are NOT poorly executed,just go and read Merry's funeral.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Feb 7, 2008)

MIHAWK said:


> IT'S THE WRONG WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY



Knock, knock


----------



## competitionbros (Feb 7, 2008)

ClearMoon said:


> The problem with One Piece and serious issues and events (e.g. Nico Robin's past, EL events etc), is due to the art, the fact that no-one can die in current time, and the sometimes two dimensional personalities many of the characters have, it's easy to think "why do I care". However, when Jiraiya died in Naruto, I did care as he was a well developed character.
> 
> The only serious issues done well in One Piece was Nami's past in my opinion, and to a lesser extent, some of the stuff with Robin when in EL and the death of Saulo (Edit: Oh and Zoro's past with Kuina was well done too, but most of this was in East Blue). *So stop saying, "One Piece is really deep if you read more of it", as it isn't really*, or at least most of the scenes that were supposed to be deep were executed poorly.





And Naruto is? You're saying most of the emotional stuff was in East Blue, well most of Naruto's emotional stuff was pre-TS. There has only been 1 emotional moment that was well done post-TS and that was the death of Asuma which wasn't even really important as Kishi's just killing off one of his fodder jounin.


----------



## koolo (Feb 7, 2008)

wish you made a poll

anyway, one piece


----------



## MIHAWK. (Feb 7, 2008)

Kweck said:


> Sasuke!
> 
> Doh! Was a genjutsu...


 
u mean sasuke on the door was a genjutsu? the knocking? the door? the whole house? or the last 3 chapters ?


----------



## Muscari (Feb 7, 2008)

naruto by far... though i've never read OP 
there's just something about the artwork that just screams to me:
YOU WILL NOT LIIIIIIKEEEE MEEEEE!!!


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 7, 2008)

Thewrongway said:


> I'm banking on at least one OP-tard realizing the futility of trying to prove that their scripture can and should appeal to EVERYONE IN TEH UNIVERSE!!!111one They're like religious radicals or something.



I'm banking on at least one Narutard realizing the futility of trying to prove that their scripture can and should appeal to EVERYONE IN TEH UNIVERSE!!!111one They're like religious radicals or something.


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Feb 7, 2008)

This stuff never happens in the OP section but then I'm new here.


----------



## Supa Swag (Feb 7, 2008)

ClearMoon said:


> The problem with One Piece and serious issues and events (e.g. Nico Robin's past, EL events etc), is due to the art, the fact that no-one can die in current time, and the sometimes two dimensional personalities many of the characters have, it's easy to think "why do I care". However, when Jiraiya died in Naruto, I did care as he was a well developed character.
> 
> The only serious issues done well in One Piece was Nami's past in my opinion, and to a lesser extent, some of the stuff with Robin when in EL and the death of Saulo (Edit: Oh and Zoro's past with Kuina was well done too, but most of this was in East Blue). So stop saying, "One Piece is really deep if you read more of it", as it isn't really, or at least most of the scenes that were supposed to be deep were executed poorly.




Neither series is that deep to begin with.

As far as death goes, while OP doesn't kill anybody relevent outside of flashbacks, Naruto doesn't kill anybody outside of old people and bad guys. In this case I very much prefer OP's way of doing deaths so I won't have to feel such massive disappointment like I did with Chouji surviving. And when the old people do die EVERYBODY see's it coming 50 miles away, so the impact is already lessened.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 7, 2008)

I love how NaruTards seem to believe they're more grown up and mature by bashing One Piece for being childish and "not as deep as Naruto." While in the same breath praising Naruto to be this great literary masterpiece of absolute genius that nothing could ever surpass.

Yeah NaruTards reading Naruto totally makes you seem more grown up and mature. I bet when the ladies hear you read Naruto and bash One Piece they totally want to have sex with you cause of it. Because heck knows they wouldn't want you if you were reading a "kiddy manga" like One Piece despite the fact you're practically reading an equally kiddy manga already.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Feb 7, 2008)

Aethos said:


> I love how NaruTards seem to believe they're more grown up and mature by bashing One Piece for being childish and "not as deep as Naruto." While in the same breath praising Naruto to be this great literary masterpiece of absolute genius that nothing could ever surpass.
> 
> Yeah NaruTards reading Naruto totally makes you seem more grown up and mature. I bet when the ladies hear you read Naruto and bash One Piece they totally want to have sex with you cause of it. Because heck knows they wouldn't want you if you were reading a "kiddy manga" like One Piece despite the fact you're practically reading an equally kiddy manga already.



I agree. One of my IRL m8s is a anime only watcher (Of anything), 
and he watched OP for 1 month now and has seen up to Water 7.

So far its some of the best he has ever seen, he has so much fun watching it laughing his ass off the humor and enjoying the kickass fighting.

And for the record he is of the opinion that anything >Naruto.


----------



## C-Moon (Feb 7, 2008)

Ballistik said:


> BLEACH.


Damn straight. Aside from the revelations, I'm not getting into this Uchiha fight. When are we gonna see stuff that *actually happened*?


----------



## bah21 (Feb 7, 2008)

As a fan of both Naruto, One Piece, and Bleach, I can just laugh at all of this and grin.

But just to throw this out, at the moment, and overall, I prefer One Piece to Naruto. It's not that I think Naruto is bad, I just like One Piece more. I don't feel like going into a huge amount of depth as to why at moment, but I will say it's kind of ironic, because when I first caught glimpses of One Piece I was certain I'd hate it due to its art style.


----------



## Clearmoon (Feb 7, 2008)

Aethos said:


> I love how NaruTards seem to believe they're more grown up and mature by bashing One Piece for being childish and "not as deep as Naruto." While in the same breath praising Naruto to be this great literary masterpiece of absolute genius that nothing could ever surpass.
> 
> Yeah NaruTards reading Naruto totally makes you seem more grown up and mature. I bet when the ladies hear you read Naruto and bash One Piece they totally want to have sex with you cause of it. Because heck knows they wouldn't want you if you were reading a "kiddy manga" like One Piece despite the fact you're practically reading an equally kiddy manga already.



I love how the best you can do is present a bad Ad Hominem and Strawman argument, without refuting my point. You may have failed to notice that I criticized Naruto for poor writing in my first post, but on the whole, the characters are far more conflicted than most of OP's main cast are portrayed to be (which is odd, considering quite a few of their backstories). Luffy is probably a better main character than Naruto, but he can be a bit of a Gary Stu at times.

EDIT: That is assuming your post was aimed at me.


----------



## bah21 (Feb 7, 2008)

ClearMoon said:


> I criticized Naruto for poor writing in my first topic, but on the whole, the characters are far more conflicted than most of OP's main cast are portrayed to be (which is odd, considering quite a few of their backstories). Luffy is probably a better main character than Naruto, but he can be a bit of a Gary Stu at times.



You know, that may actually be the very reason some people prefer One Piece to Naruto. I'm not the type to see a character show some inner turmoil or conflicted feelings and instantly proclaim it to be "angsty emo trash" like some, but on occasion I find that it's possible for a character to be a bit _too _conflicted, and it gets a little annoying. Sometimes it's nice to have a character that is sure of him/herself and not held back by a bunch of inner doubts and issues.

A balance between the 2 is really the best, in my view, but Naruto does lean more towards characters with lots of inner conflicts and doubts, while One Piece leans more towards characters who are sure of themselves and less conflicted, so personal preference towards character type could have a huge effect on which one prefers.


----------



## Clearmoon (Feb 7, 2008)

bah21 said:


> You know, that may actually be the very reason some people prefer One Piece to Naruto. I'm not the type to see a character show some inner turmoil or conflicted feelings and instantly proclaim it to be "angsty emo trash" like some, but on occasion I find that it's possible for a character to be a bit _too _conflicted, and it gets a little annoying. Sometimes it's nice to have a character that is sure of him/herself and not held back by a bunch of inner doubts and issues.
> 
> A balance between the 2 is really the best, in my view, but Naruto does lean more towards characters with lots of inner conflicts and doubts, while One Piece leans more towards characters who are sure of themselves and less conflicted, so personal preference towards character type could have a huge effect on which one prefers.




Yeah, you have a very good point. The problem is when people start proclaiming personal opinion and preference as if it should be well known fact.


----------



## baka-sama1 (Feb 7, 2008)

I TRIED to get into One piece, I really did, but after a while I would always find my self thinking "am I suppiosed to take this seriously or just laugh at the funny-looking people?"  Nothing about One Piece made much sense to me.  Some of Hiro's other mangas like Rave and Fairy Tail got me interested, but everything about one piece just seemed so fake.  Every conflict I read was just something that everyone laughed about after it was all over.  The powers and fighting styles seemed so vague and random that the fights never seemed to follow any kind of logic.  Granted that I didn't get very far in one piece, but I have to give naruto a much higher rank because it started off by grabbing my attention with all the deception and thinking behind the fights.  Everything about Naruto just seems far more real to me than One piece (even fantasy has to have SOME realness) and I can take it a lot more seriously because of that.


----------



## Dark World Lightning (Feb 7, 2008)

> I criticized Naruto for poor writing in my first topic, but on the whole, the characters are far more conflicted than most of OP's main cast are portrayed to be (which is odd, considering quite a few of their backstories). Luffy is probably a better main character than Naruto, but he can be a bit of a Gary Stu at times.



The only characters in Naruto that can still be regarded as conflicted are Naruto and Sasuke. Maybe Pein.

So I have no idea where this is coming from. Naruto is just as blatant about the 'magically handwave your tragic past for a plot-induced powerup or Heel Face Turn' thing as... any other manga, really.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 7, 2008)

Kweck said:


> Okey those pics are just disturbing..



I think i dont realy wana know,but werent those deleted pictures pics of gay men,......uhm,DOING each other by any chance?Cause if yes,then we have the same problem with this on OPHQ (bastard called O-Hai made 2 comebacks now)




baka-sama1 said:


> I TRIED to get into One piece, I really did, but after a while I would always find my self thinking "am I suppiosed to take this seriously or just laugh at the funny-looking people?"  Nothing about One Piece made much sense to me.  *Some of Hiro's other mangas like Rave and Fairy Tail got me interested, but everything about one piece just seemed so fake.*  Every conflict I read was just something that everyone laughed about after it was all over.  The powers and fighting styles seemed so vague and random that the fights never seemed to follow any kind of logic.  Granted that I didn't get very far in one piece, but I have to give naruto a much higher rank because it started off by grabbing my attention with all the deception and thinking behind the fights.  Everything about Naruto just seems far more real to me than One piece (even fantasy has to have SOME realness) and I can take it a lot more seriously because of that.



One thing-it is far from being as fake as turning into snake demons or having a fox demon inside you.

The devil fruits actualy allow more people to have crazy abilities.AND there are strong as hell people WITHOUT a df (Whitebeard).PLUS-I dont get your "no logic" coment.

On a SIDENOTE-YOU DO realise that the name of the man doing this manga is "Eiichiro Oda" and not "Hiro",DO YOU?


----------



## mystictrunks (Feb 7, 2008)

Come on gaiz reed NariTo getz you allt he girlz why I pulled thiz while i wuz running around with my Matell brand Leaf Village Headband

*posts picture of 5000 pound girl dressed as Tsunade*



How r u gun get a gurl if you reed a kiddy anime like OP I mean it's not like NaRu2 and One Peace R In Da Same Magazine Rite?


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 7, 2008)

If your being sacrastic,you may wanna make that READABLE.

and if NO-THEN know that One Piece and Naruto ARE published in the same magazine (I knows,99% chance hes being "funny",but.......)


----------



## lazyeyeZ0o (Feb 7, 2008)

god damn man, I just want to say
I CAN HATE OP AND ONLY READ ONE CHAPTER! doesn't take more than ONE CHAPTER for me to know i don't like it!

anyways, i HAVE readied op, just too many things are just annoying. I don't understand why the straws hat crew desired to robin so much. i can understand if luffy wanted to off of hormones but all of them?

often times, i would hear that nami past was the most sad and greatest. I can understand why the villagers would hate her for helping the fish guy or whatever his name is but the villagers knew along? and pretended to fuck with little girl and at the sametime, they put all their hope in a fucking 4 year old girl that she would come up with large amount money. that plot was fucking stupid and make no sense


----------



## mystictrunks (Feb 7, 2008)

lazyeyeZ0o said:


> god damn man, I just want to say
> I CAN HATE OP AND ONLY READ ONE CHAPTER! doesn't take more than ONE CHAPTER for me to know i don't like it!


That would be like watching one episode of something and then quiting. A bad episode.



> anyways, i HAVE readied op, just too many things are just annoying. I don't understand why the straws hat crew desired to robin so much. i can understand if luffy wanted to off of hormones but all of them?


Friendship? Leadership?



> often times, i would hear that nami past was the most sad and greatest. I can understand why the villagers would hate her for helping the fish guy or whatever his name is but the villagers knew along? and pretended to fuck with little girl and at the sametime, they put all their hope in a fucking 4 year old girl that she would come up with large amount money. that plot was fucking stupid and make no sense



A 4 year old who was a map and money making genius.


----------



## baka-sama1 (Feb 7, 2008)

Lobolover said:


> One thing-it is far from being as fake as turning into snake demons or having a fox demon inside you.
> 
> The devil fruits actualy allow more people to have crazy abilities.AND there are strong as hell people WITHOUT a df (Whitebeard).PLUS-I dont get your "no logic" coment.
> 
> On a SIDENOTE-YOU DO realise that the name of the man doing this manga is "Eiichiro Oda" and not "Hiro",DO YOU?



oops, must have the wrong guy...

The whole "fake" thing is mostly the devil fruit itself.  Outside of the devil fruits I never saw much of anything that would really be chalked up to being "magic" in the manga, which is why it seems random for a person to eat a "magic" fruit and "magically" get powers.  In Naruto, things like this are common in the world.  Most every millitary in the narutoverse utilizes ninjas who are trained to use "ninja magic," therefore it's not random in the context of the world for people to change shape, breathe fire, seal demons in babies, etc...  In the context of the One Piece world, devil fruits just seem out of place to me.  This is why I say it's random.


----------



## Lawliettt (Feb 7, 2008)

Kisame is a ninja.  Kisame can create massive tidal waves of horrible destruction that would bash any ship on the ocean into pulpwood.

quite obviously ninja>pirate.


----------



## bah21 (Feb 7, 2008)

mystictrunks said:


> A 4 year old who was a map and money making genius.



Did they even know about it then? I thought it wasn't until a while afterwards that they learned what she was doing, but I could be wrong.

Plus I'm fairly certain she was quite a bit older than 4.



baka-sama1 said:


> oops, must have the wrong guy...
> 
> The whole "fake" thing is mostly the devil fruit itself.  Outside of the devil fruits I never saw much of anything that would really be chalked up to being "magic" in the manga, which is why it seems random for a person to eat a "magic" fruit and "magically" get powers.  In Naruto, things like this are common in the world.  Most every millitary in the narutoverse utilizes ninjas who are trained to use "ninja magic," therefore it's not random in the context of the world for people to change shape, breathe fire, seal demons in babies, etc...  In the context of the One Piece world, devil fruits just seem out of place to me.  This is why I say it's random.



To be fair, there's a lot of weird stuff in One Piece aside from the Devil's Fruit, it's just not as instantly apparant that it exists like in Naruto. But in One Piece, you get massive sea beasts, cities built on clouds, people with weird wings, whales the size of mountains, an ocean where the laws of physics seem to mean little, giants and fishmen and mermen, people who have the ability to knock someone out and break boats with just their spirt, people who can shoot off energy blasts with swords and cut steel WITHOUT the help of a fruit, etc. So weird fruits that give odd abilities doesn't seem that out of place, really.


----------



## mystictrunks (Feb 7, 2008)

baka-sama1 said:


> oops, must have the wrong guy...
> 
> The whole "fake" thing is mostly the devil fruit itself.  Outside of the devil fruits I never saw much of anything that would really be chalked up to being "magic" in the manga, which is why it seems random for a person to eat a "magic" fruit and "magically" get powers.  In Naruto, things like this are common in the world.  Most every millitary in the narutoverse utilizes ninjas who are trained to use "ninja magic," therefore it's not random in the context of the world for people to change shape, breathe fire, seal demons in babies, etc...  In the context of the One Piece world, devil fruits just seem out of place to me.  This is why I say it's random.



But many of the worlds most powerful and diverse groups have DF users.


----------



## Gritz (Feb 7, 2008)

lazyeyeZ0o said:


> god damn man, I just want to say
> I CAN HATE OP AND ONLY READ ONE CHAPTER! doesn't take more than ONE CHAPTER for me to know i don't like it!
> 
> anyways, i HAVE readied op, just too many things are just annoying. I don't understand why the straws hat crew desired to robin so much. i can understand if luffy wanted to off of hormones but all of them?
> ...



You have stuck your injured hand into the shark tank and the OP sharks are coming.  RUN!!!!!!!!!  

Prepare for your tombstoning.  Don't you know the law?  It's illegal to like Naruto more than the sacred and perfect One Piece.  

Lol.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 7, 2008)

baka-sama1 said:


> oops, must have the wrong guy...
> 
> The whole "fake" thing is mostly the devil fruit itself.  Outside of the devil fruits I never saw much of anything that would really be chalked up to being "magic" in the manga, which is why it seems random for a person to eat a "magic" fruit and "magically" get powers.  In Naruto, things like this are common in the world.  Most every millitary in the narutoverse utilizes ninjas who are trained to use "ninja magic," therefore it's not random in the context of the world for people to change shape, breathe fire, seal demons in babies, etc...  In the context of the One Piece world, devil fruits just seem out of place to me.  This is why I say it's random.



actualy,its NOT "magic".Its a "natural" thing,at least settled down and scientificaly explored to the level of making a gun/sword "eat" a devil fruit by ways of fusion.Which isnt realy all THAT magic,more like scifi.Like what Oda did with Kuma.

Plus,alot of characters HAVE df's (in the government,amongst pirates,in the marines,etc.) BUT there are also strong people without them and that is good,making the story balanced.


----------



## baka-sama1 (Feb 7, 2008)

bah21 said:


> To be fair, there's a lot of weird stuff in One Piece aside from the Devil's Fruit, it's just not as instantly apparant that it exists like in Naruto. But in One Piece, you get massive sea beasts, cities built on clouds, people with weird wings, whales the size of mountains, an ocean where the laws of physics seem to mean little, giants and fishmen and mermen, people who have the ability to knock someone out and break boats with just their spirt, people who can shoot off energy blasts with swords and cut steel WITHOUT the help of a fruit, etc. So weird fruits that give odd abilities doesn't seem that out of place, really.



I didn't read far enough to see some of this, but it still sounds horribly inconsistent to me.  It's probably due to the fact that I like to know "how" and "why" everything happens.  When I see a cloud city I want to know what keeps it from falling through.  For fishmen and people with wings I want to know if they're related to humans, why they are that way and whatnot.  When someone cuts steel, I want to know how they surpasses the limits of human muscle.  Naruto usually answers these kinds of things in some way.(stuff in naruto like Jashin and hidan still get under my skin for lack of an explanation)  I don't know how much explaining One Piece does later on for these things, but when a manga lacks guidelines for the strange things that happen, I see it as more of a cheap way for the writer to make up whatever he wants rather than challenging himself to make developments believable.


----------



## mystictrunks (Feb 7, 2008)

Cutting steel is explained.

Fishmen are simply a different species.


----------



## MIHAWK. (Feb 7, 2008)

baka-sama1 said:


> oops, must have the wrong guy...
> 
> The whole "fake" thing is mostly the devil fruit itself. Outside of the devil fruits I never saw much of anything that would really be chalked up to being "magic" in the manga, which is why it seems random for a person to eat a "magic" fruit and "magically" get powers. In Naruto, things like this are common in the world. Most every millitary in the narutoverse utilizes ninjas who are trained to use "ninja magic," therefore it's not random in the context of the world for people to change shape, breathe fire, seal demons in babies, etc... In the context of the One Piece world, devil fruits just seem out of place to me. This is why I say it's random.


 
what? may u explain how can u form seals and fire appears??? a DF is a DF but why doing weird things with ur hands would make u throw fire?

the DF are awesome

most things in naruto are unrealistic as hell,how did oro turn himself into a snake? how could hidan not die? how could haku teleport via ice mirrors? why killing ur friend makes u get the MS? (that one is heavilly retarded) how could bugs live inside of shino? how can naruto's skin peal? how can the curse seal make u spread wings and turn into a monster? and how the hell can u create water???

also the OP characters throw everything they have into the battles,why didn't naruto use gamabunta aganst sasuke? cause sasuke didn't have a summon and he felt bad?

every villain in naruto is immortal,oro,hidan,kakuzu,madara,rikoudo sennin will apear after

deidara exploded but kishi used the lamest explanation and he was safe and sound

oro wanted to learn all the jutsu in the world,first he can't since he can't learn bloodlines like the byakungan or kimimaro's,secondly even if he could copy all the other jutsu with sasuke's body he still wouldn't know hiraishin and other hidden jutsu and after some years he would have to find another body

and don't say that if goes into a new body he can still hang on to that jutsu cause it's the sharingan's copy

if this is believable then beats me

also every character has like 5-6 jutsu,for naruto i will count the KB who is a standard jutsu,maybe i should count transform as well

naruto:KB,rasengan,frog summon and he has the kyubi that every 100 chapters is either good to use or bad to use

sasuke:katon,chidori,snake hands,chakra blade and genjutsu and he is supposed to have the copy eye

kakashi:chidori,3 types of chakra attacks,fog jutsu,dog summon and he has the MS which isn't a jutsu,his other 990 jutsu are there somewhere i guess

itachi:amaterasu,tsukuyoni,genjutsu reverse,KB explosion and other genjutsu

jiraiya:frog jutsu (like 3-4),katon,earth jutsu and then he turns into a freak

hidanne attack

shikamarunly kagemane

sakura:medical jutsu

saine attack

tsunade:same as sakura

gaarauton and his sand

kankouro:his puppets

temari:the wind thing and that squirel

oro:snake jutsu(3-4) ,the immortality jutsu,the kusanagi sword,the zombie jutsu,the wall summons,element jutsu

gai:gates

lee:same as gai

nejinly his juuken attacks

1010nly throwing weapons

deidaranly his bombs

this is a good story???? having supposedly,the sharingan or being a god level ninja and knowing only 5 to 10 jutsu???? very realistic

and i won't even mention the plotholes since u spoke of being realistic and not kishi making a better plot


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 7, 2008)

mystictrunks said:


> Come on gaiz reed NariTo getz you allt he girlz why I pulled thiz while i wuz running around with my Matell brand Leaf Village Headband
> 
> *posts picture of 5000 pound girl dressed as Tsunade*
> 
> ...



Narudo iz totally on teh same level as Berserk MIRITE?!


----------



## bah21 (Feb 7, 2008)

mystictrunks said:


> Cutting steel is explained.
> 
> Fishmen are simply a different species.



The sky island was also partially explained, at least. It was related to the properties of Seastone, but since Seastone itself is still not fully understood by Marine scientists in One Piece, the sky island wasn't fully understood by the Straw Hats either. And the people with wings were hinted at in one of the cover arcs, though that arc brought up questions of its own.

The general superhuman abilities some people achieve without the need for a Devil's Fruit has never been completely explained, though. A couple of specific abilities were said to be related to a person's "spirit". Really, though, this doesn't bother me. It was made apparant fairly soon that people could achieve odd things, and though One Piece hasn't specifically mentioned something like chakra or ki or spirit force or whatever to explain it, I doubt a simple introduction of some named energy source would really effect the series that much. But I suppose I can see someone not liking the fact that the reason is never specifically stated.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 7, 2008)

ClearMoon said:


> I love how the best you can do is present a bad Ad Hominem and Strawman argument, without refuting my point. You may have failed to notice that I criticized Naruto for poor writing in my first post, but on the whole, the characters are far more conflicted than most of OP's main cast are portrayed to be (which is odd, considering quite a few of their backstories). Luffy is probably a better main character than Naruto, but he can be a bit of a Gary Stu at times.
> 
> EDIT: That is assuming your post was aimed at me.



I wasn't aiming it at you...


----------



## baka-sama1 (Feb 7, 2008)

mystictrunks said:


> Fishmen are simply a different species.



Now you make me wonder even more about the fishmen ...  Are they all the same species?  If so, then how do they have all different kinds of fish features?  Questions like this always pop up in my head.  I started drawing a fantasy manga recently and I can barely even draw a page without thinking about the mechanics and histories involved in every panel of the story.(things like "when a dragon in in humanoid form, should it still have a dragon's physiology?")  One Piece just took too long to get into these things for me to keep interested, while in naruto they explained quite a bit about chakra, ninjutsu, and even increased physical strength in the very first arc.


----------



## competitionbros (Feb 7, 2008)

baka-sama1 said:


> Now you make me wonder even more about the fishmen ...  Are they all the same species?  If so, then how do they have all different kinds of fish features?  Questions like this always pop up in my head.  I started drawing a fantasy manga recently and I can barely even draw a page without thinking about the mechanics and histories involved in every panel of the story.(things like "when a dragon in in humanoid form, should it still have a dragon's physiology?")  One Piece just took too long to get into these things for me to keep interested, while in naruto they explained quite a bit about chakra, ninjutsu, and even increased physical strength in the very first arc.




Are humans the same species yet we have different features?



On the topic of things not being explained in OP I have a question for Naruto fans: Can somebody explain scrolls to me? How can it be used to summon weapons and animals? Why do you simply have to write your name and use blood to be able to summon that animal? Why do you sometimes need a scroll to summon an animal then later on you don't (Kakashi)?


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 7, 2008)

competitionbros said:


> Are humans the same species yet we have different features?
> 
> 
> 
> On the topic of things not being explained in OP I have a question for Naruto fans: Can somebody explain scrolls to me? How can it be used to summon weapons and animals? Why do you simply have to write your name and use blood to be able to summon that animal? Why do you sometimes need a scroll to summon an animal then later on you don't (Kakashi)?



It's obviously genjutsu


----------



## baka-sama1 (Feb 7, 2008)

competitionbros said:


> Are humans the same species yet we have different features?
> 
> 
> 
> On the topic of things not being explained in OP I have a question for Naruto fans: Can somebody explain scrolls to me? How can it be used to summon weapons and animals? Why do you simply have to write your name and use blood to be able to summon that animal? Why do you sometimes need a scroll to summon an animal then later on you don't (Kakashi)?



Fishmen have features of lots of different species of fish.  If they're the same species then one shouldn't be an octopusman and another a sharkman.

With the scrolls and summonings I make a few assumptions from other fantasy stuff I've seen.  Scrolls are just like a written form of a jutsu.  Instead of using hand seals, they use written seals.  The blood for summoning is like a payment on the contract (or somthing like that, I think) and it draws the summoning seal when they touch the ground.  With Kakashi's thing, I kind of assumed that the scroll was needed because he basically did a doton and kuchiyose jutsu at the same time.(not enough hands for both seals)


----------



## Roy Mustang (Feb 7, 2008)

pirates > ninjas


----------



## competitionbros (Feb 7, 2008)

baka-sama1 said:


> Fishmen have features of lots of different species of fish.  If they're the same species then one shouldn't be an octopusman and another a sharkman.
> 
> With the scrolls and summonings I make a few assumptions from other fantasy stuff I've seen.  Scrolls are just like a written form of a jutsu.  Instead of using hand seals, they use written seals.  *The blood for summoning is like a payment on the contract (or somthing like that, I think) and it draws the summoning seal when they touch the ground.*  With Kakashi's thing, I kind of assumed that the scroll was needed because he basically did a doton and kuchiyose jutsu at the same time.(not enough hands for both seals)



Think of it like this, they are fishmen so however many fish there are there can be a fishman version of it: sharks, octupus, blowfish, etc......


That's just it, if it's how you say then it would seem that the scrolls have some form of consciousness since it's able to read a persons blood and name and summon that animal. That's just beyond weird to me.


----------



## baka-sama1 (Feb 7, 2008)

competitionbros said:


> Think of it like this, they are fishmen so however many fish there are there can be a fishman version of it: sharks, octupus, blowfish, etc.......



Then there would be many different species of fishmen.  One for each species of fish.  They couldn't naturally be of the same species.



competitionbros said:


> That's just it, if it's how you say then it would seem that the scrolls have some form of consciousness since it's able to read a persons blood and name and summon that animal. That's just beyond weird to me.



I think of it more like a chemical reaction...blood + chakra + seal ----> summoning.  Since chakra and seals have been explained a bit, it seems just fine for them to react automatically between different types, like different chemicals react to each other without being concious.


----------



## competitionbros (Feb 7, 2008)

baka-sama1 said:


> Then there would be many different species of fishmen.  One for each species of fish.  They couldn't naturally be of the same species.
> 
> 
> 
> I think of it more like a chemical reaction...blood + chakra + seal ----> summoning.  Since chakra and seals have been explained a bit, it seems just fine for them to react automatically between different types, like different chemicals react to each other without being concious.





Huh, that doesn't make sense, is there only one of every fish in the world? There could be dozens of the same type of fishmen and with fishmen island coming up we'll get to see more.......


I still don't get it........the summons live in some different realm right? So how does that summon know it's being summoned? Naturally one would assume that the scroll reacts but again if that's the case then the scroll must have some sort of consciousness to be able to use chakra to force a summon out into their realm.


----------



## MIHAWK. (Feb 7, 2008)

except the summoning part that competitionbros mentioned and i agree (also summoning people is like teleportation)

how do seals work? so i go to my balcony,make weird seals and i shoot fire? the god reads the seals and sends fire? what if i do them wrong but i want to shoot fire?

when i make a new jutsu i look into the menu and see which seals combo are left so i say:"boar snake sheep tiger boar boar sheep are left,i'll take it,reserve it for me god"


----------



## baka-sama1 (Feb 7, 2008)

competitionbros said:


> Huh, that doesn't make sense, is there only one of every fish in the world? There could be dozens of the same type of fishmen and with fishmen island coming up we'll get to see more........



I didn't mean that there was only one of each type of fishman, I meant that each different "kind" of fishman would have to be a different species.  They could still all be "fishmen" the same way that wolves and dogs are "canines".



competitionbros said:


> I still don't get it........the summons live in some different realm right? So how does that summon know it's being summoned? Naturally one would assume that the scroll reacts but again if that's the case then the scroll must have some sort of consciousness to be able to use chakra to force a summon out into their realm.



Acid doesn't need conciousness to dissolve metal.  In this case it's just chakra reacting to blood and making a spacial rift that pulls the summon through.  The only conciousness needed is the ninja manipulating their chakra, like a person would pour out however much acid they need to dissolve something.



MIHAWK said:


> except the summoning part that competitionbros mentioned and i agree (also summoning people is like teleportation)
> 
> how do seals work? so i go to my balcony,make weird seals and i shoot fire? the god reads the seals and sends fire? what if i do them wrong but i want to shoot fire?
> 
> when i make a new jutsu i look into the menu and see which seals combo are left so i say:"boar snake sheep tiger boar boar sheep are left,i'll take it,reserve it for me god"



Well, chakra runs all through a person's body, so I would guess that it reacts when it passes through the hands.  The effect is decided by how the chakra paths run through the hands and in what order they do.  The types and amount of chakra you use would also change the jutsu.  That's mostly a guess, but at least there's enough information in naruto for me to make an educated one.


----------



## competitionbros (Feb 7, 2008)

baka-sama1 said:


> Acid doesn't need conciousness to dissolve metal.  In this case it's just chakra reacting to blood and making a spacial rift that pulls the summon through.  The only conciousness needed is the ninja manipulating their chakra, like a person would pour out however much acid they need to dissolve something.





Acid doesn't dissolve a specific item, whatever you put it on it dissolves, period, you don't need a consciousness for that. But that's not the case for summoning or else whenever you summoned you'd just get a random animal and not a specific one. Hence, we're back at the scroll acting as a medium for the animal you wanna summon and _again_ making it seem like it has a consciousness.


----------



## MIHAWK. (Feb 7, 2008)

baka-sama1 said:


> I didn't mean that there was only one of each type of fishman, I meant that each different "kind" of fishman would have to be a different species. They could still all be "fishmen" the same way that wolves and dogs are "canines".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
bro that's a guess

then could u randomly do seals and use jutsu no one seen b4? when u r thinking of making a new jutsu,how can u do it with seals,u will analyse how the chakra in the fingers should go in each step?

bro admit that is just looked cool and kishi made it

there's no explanation

same with summons

and shunshin no jutsu,other times u *POOF*,if u had so much speed why not use it in battle? other times u become wind and somehow u r rebuilt and sometimes u sink in the ground

it has no explanation (don't give me the DB crap) and it is a way to stop fights and save off ur characters

only jiraiya didn't know that jutsu as it seems


----------



## Mangekyō (Feb 7, 2008)

Naruto is awesome and all, but I've gotta say One Piece is better, I mean story, characters, etc. But don't get me wrong I'm not saying that Naruto isn't good, it is.


----------



## Gritz (Feb 7, 2008)

Shouldn't this be in the Battledome?  The Library is where we talk about the Naruto manga by itself.


----------



## MIHAWK. (Feb 7, 2008)

aren't u heavilly disturbed by the existance of this thread for some reason?


----------



## Mangekyō (Feb 7, 2008)

Yeah..gritz has a point. Why exactly is this in the Konoha Library?


----------



## baka-sama1 (Feb 7, 2008)

competitionbros said:


> Acid doesn't dissolve a specific item, whatever you put it on it dissolves, period, you don't need a consciousness for that. But that's not the case for summoning or else whenever you summoned you'd just get a random animal and not a specific one. Hence, we're back at the scroll acting as a medium for the animal you wanna summon and _again_ making it seem like it has a consciousness.



Ok, so you're wondering how it decides what you summon with the jutsu?  I still think the acid is a valid example, but oh well...  The amount of chakra you put into the jutsu decides what you summon, so it's completely under the control of the person.  Maybe the blood on the contract and the blood used in the jutsu work as chakra transmitters of some kind so when you try to summon, the scroll recieves the chakra and reacts based on what it's fed like a computer program.  This way, you never get something you have no contract with.



MIHAWK said:


> bro that's a guess
> 
> then could u randomly do seals and use jutsu no one seen b4? when u r thinking of making a new jutsu,how can u do it with seals,u will analyse how the chakra in the fingers should go in each step?
> 
> ...



Yeah, I said it was a guess...the point I'm trying to make is that with naruto I have enough information to make these guesses, but with One Piece I don't.


----------



## Maycara (Feb 8, 2008)

I only dick ride Light...ya...I would take a shot in the mouth for him....  On a serious note, I dont get fanboyism, or whatever. My fav char in Naruto got fucking fucked up hardcore.(Hidan) and It didnt bother me one bit. I still think Naruto is better then OP. Getting all fanboy over something just makes you lose sight of the story.


----------



## MIHAWK. (Feb 8, 2008)

Minzara said:


> I only dick ride Light...ya...I would take a shot in the mouth for him....  On a serious note, I dont get fanboyism, or whatever. My fav char in Naruto got fucking fucked up hardcore.(Hidan) and It didnt bother me one bit. I still think Naruto is better then OP. Getting all fanboy over something just makes you lose sight of the story.


 
i agree about fanboyism


----------



## Gritz (Feb 8, 2008)

Minzara said:


> I only dick ride Light...ya...I would take a shot in the mouth for him....  On a serious note, I dont get fanboyism, or whatever. My fav char in Naruto got fucking fucked up hardcore.(Hidan) and It didnt bother me one bit. I still think Naruto is better then OP. Getting all fanboy over something just makes you lose sight of the story.



It's no use.  These guys will keep insisting that Naruto is "inferior in every way" to their manga.  And will also say that anyone who dissagrees has "never read One Piece".  It's quite infuriating.


----------



## competitionbros (Feb 8, 2008)

baka-sama1 said:


> Ok, so you're wondering how it decides what you summon with the jutsu?  I still think the acid is a valid example, but oh well...  The amount of chakra you put into the jutsu decides what you summon, so it's completely under the control of the person.  Maybe the blood on the contract and the blood used in the jutsu work as chakra transmitters of some kind so when you try to summon, the scroll recieves the chakra and reacts based on what it's fed like a computer program.  This way, you never get something you have no contract with.





And that's not weird? People (not saying you) bash One Piece for people being able to cut through metal and octopus fishmen but don't wanna recognize scrolls acting as a "computer program" to channel chakra and summon. The point being that scrolls are not properly explained, same with hands signs and chakra and seals, but they wanna talk about OP being "inconsistent" and "irrational", think of ya own series before you make a statement like that.


And Aethos/Gritz, stop the flaming or you'll end up getting banned.


----------



## Maycara (Feb 8, 2008)

MIHAWK said:


> i agree about fanboyism



I don't get it. I mean I just said I would take a shot in the mouth for Light, but I was jkin...or was I rofl. Anyway I like the ending of Death Note as well. Even though I liked Light alot, I feel he got what he derserved. Same goes for how Naruto villians usually die. Which is why I dont like OP sometimes, cause these villian due such bad things...yet they dont get the punishment they require. You can say living in shame is a worse punishment, but I rather live, then die a horrible death.




Aethos said:


> well the library is a den of fanboyism that doesn't change.



I know...but even OP fans...has it fanboys..lol



Gritz said:


> It's no use.  These guys will keep insisting that Naruto is "superior in every way" to their manga.  And will also say that anyone who dissagrees has "never read One Piece".  It's quite infuriating.



Eh, I like Naruto better, and I am up to date on OP. *shurgs* OP is good though, I love it...


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 8, 2008)

competitionbros said:


> And Aethos/Gritz, stop the flaming or you'll end up getting banned.



what flaming? I doubt any of that was said out of anger. I know I wasn't angry when I typed that stuff out.


----------



## competitionbros (Feb 8, 2008)

Aethos said:


> what flaming? I doubt any of that was said out of anger. I know I wasn't angry when I typed that stuff out.





Saying things like "Meh you can masturbate to Sasuke and Itachi in any of the other threads" and "You can go back to dickriding Luffy and Oda though. I'm sure with his rubber body will accomodate your need of the right size for dickriding" doesn't seem ban-worthy?


----------



## Gritz (Feb 8, 2008)

Aethos said:


> what flaming? I doubt any of that was said out of anger. I know I wasn't angry when I typed that stuff out.



For once, we agree on something.  Break out the bruskies!


----------



## Maycara (Feb 8, 2008)

MIHAWK said:


> i agree,aethos bro be more carefull
> 
> 
> 
> ...



ROFL, hey I didnt post any pics, I just said.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 8, 2008)

competitionbros said:


> Saying things like "Meh you can masturbate to Sasuke and Itachi in any of the other threads" and "You can go back to dickriding Luffy and Oda though. I'm sure with his rubber body will accomodate your need of the right size for dickriding" doesn't seem ban-worthy?



meh if there was tons of personal insults and cussing involved I'd agree with you then, but I pretty much figured we were both joking.


----------



## byooki (Feb 8, 2008)

as of late, the naruto manga (and anime for that matter) has really turned into a piece of shit
one piece has always been the superior shonen


----------



## baka-sama1 (Feb 8, 2008)

competitionbros said:


> And that's not weird? People (not saying you) bash One Piece for people being able to cut through metal and octopus fishmen but don't wanna recognize scrolls acting as a "computer program" to channel chakra and summon. The point being that scrolls are not properly explained, same with hands signs and chakra and seals, but they wanna talk about OP being "inconsistent" and "irrational", think of ya own series before you make a statement like that.



I'm fine with there being fishmen and people cutting through metal, but I'd like to know more about them than "they're man-like fish" or "they're fish-like men."  Did they evolve from fish?  From humans?  Did somebody do some genetic experiments in the past?  It just seems out of place because before the fishmen came along there were just humans and some random animal-ish people(which I don't remember ever being named as a race).  It just seems like Oda puts in whatever he wants on a whim without actually fitting it into the rest of the world.  With naruto we have special clans, but they're not a different race, just mutated humans, so there's not much to wonder about.  Naruto may not explain everything but it gives me just enough to be satisfied with.(I'd welcome more explaining though.)  Scrolls and jutsu are just something that goes along with ninja legends, so really it's probably something that Kishi expects a japanese audience to accept without much trouble.  On the other hand I have slight a problem with pirates fighting with superpowers and martial arts instead of rapiers and guns.  If you like that stuff, then good for you, but it just doesn't do it for me.  Anyway, I gotta get to bed if I'm gonna make it to my classes in the morning, so that's about all I have to say now.


----------



## byooki (Feb 8, 2008)

baka-sama1 said:


> I'm fine with there being fishmen and people cutting through metal, but I'd like to know more about them than "they're man-like fish" or "they're fish-like men."  Did they evolve from fish?  From humans?  Did somebody do some genetic experiments in the past?  It just seems out of place because before the fishmen came along there were just humans and some random animal-ish people(which I don't remember ever being named as a race).  It just seems like Oda puts in whatever he wants on a whim without actually fitting it into the rest of the world.  With naruto we have special clans, but they're not a different race, just mutated humans, so there's not much to wonder about.  Naruto may not explain everything but it gives me just enough to be satisfied with.(I'd welcome more explaining though.)  Scrolls and jutsu are just something that goes along with ninja legends, so really it's probably something that Kishi expects a japanese audience to accept without much trouble.  On the other hand I have slight a problem with pirates fighting with superpowers and martial arts instead of rapiers and guns.  If you like that stuff, then good for you, but it just doesn't do it for me.  Anyway, I gotta get to bed if I'm gonna make it to my classes in the morning, so that's about all I have to say now.



You make it seem like the setting of One Piece takes place in the real world.
Its a fantasy story, explaining every newly introduced character who is not set to humanly standards is unnecessary.
This is another place and time where fish people live amongst humans.
Now if the story took place in the real world and a couple of pirates ran into a  half man, half fish then fuck yeah, please explain that shit, but those kinds of things are common in the world Oda has created.
You don't need those things to be explained. It doesn't hold back the story if you don't know why the fucking villain has a fin or a tail or giant ugly deformed head.


----------



## MIHAWK. (Feb 8, 2008)

byooki said:


> You make it seem like the setting of One Piece takes place in the real world.
> Its a fantasy story, explaining every newly introduced character who is not set to humanly standards is unnecessary.
> This is another place and time where fish people live amongst humans.
> Now if the story took place in the real world and a couple of pirates ran into a half man, half fish then fuck yeah, please explain that shit, but those kinds of things are common in the world Oda has created.
> You don't need those things to be explained. It doesn't hold back the story if you don't know why the fucking villain has a fin or a tail or giant ugly deformed head.


 
i agree

i thought when he said he didn't like the DF i thought that it was an unlucky comment since each great manga was born by introducing unique things,the DF are OP's unique attraction

same with fishmen

may i dare to ask why are the fishmen such a big mystery that blocks reading the manga when orochimaru had never a human appearance and he became a bloody snake all of the sudden?

same with jiraiya becomming a male witch

if someone became a fishman out of the sudden then indeed it would have to be explained but introducing a new race hasn't

in LOTR should it be explained why elfs and dwarfs existed?


----------



## Maycara (Feb 8, 2008)

MIHAWK said:


> i agree
> 
> i thought when he said he didn't like the DF that it was an unlucky comment since each great manga was born by introducing unique things,the DF are OP's unique attraction
> 
> ...



Cant really explain orachimarus human look..make up maybe? but the snake was due to the experiements he did to himself. So he could change bodies..

As for Hermit mode, it was the two frogs on his shoulders that changed his apperance....

I cant explain why hidan went all skeletor though...look sweet as hell though...


----------



## MIHAWK. (Feb 8, 2008)

Minzara said:


> Cant really explain orachimarus human look..make up maybe? but the snake was due to the experiements he did to himself. So he could change bodies..
> 
> As for Hermit mode, it was the two frogs on his shoulders that changed his apperance....
> 
> I cant explain why hidan went all skeletor though...look sweet as hell though...


 
how can u change ur body with expiraments???? isn't it kinda like a pathetic excuse?

and when was it stated that about jiraiya?i think it's ur guess

about hidan his immortality should be explained not his jutsu,though kishi could write something about hidan's body having a special ability etc

i don't really care for hidan nor kakuzu

the disturbing part is making a man into a snake or a frog man,kishi made them freaks out of the sudden and there was no explanation


----------



## Maycara (Feb 8, 2008)

MIHAWK said:


> how can u change ur body with expiraments???? isn't it kinda like a pathetic excuse?


Dude...plastic sugery? Its not impossible to completely change ones apperance, especially in a world where giant toads live....



> and when was it stated that about jiraiya?i think it's ur guess


Well you know...right when they appered he you know...kind of changed..common sense would should suggest..but if you want to play it that way..I guess there is no reason, and he just turned into the wicked witch of the west.


> about hidan his immortality should be explained not his jutsu,though kishi could write something about hidan's body having a special ability etc


 lets hope...



> i don't really care for hidan nor kakuzu


I'm sorry



> the disturbing part is making a man into a snake or a frog man,kishi made them freaks out of the sudden and there was no explanation


Its kishi way of showing power. you have to turn yourself into a freak to obtain great power...look at CS2 sasuke...


----------



## mootz (Feb 8, 2008)

whats the problem with fishmen, i dont get it

anyone remember talking cats, dogs and frogs. i dont quite think kishi left enough info for someone to explain that. chakra cant explain that.

i am tired of people saying naruto is more realistic when the two are both very much fantasy.

because oda is actually open about his creativity people complain while shit like kisame being part shark, talking animals in naruto, women turning into paper and deidara with 15 mouths on his body is let go.

both Naruto and One piece are fantasy so cut the bull.

Naruto fan: OP is for kids
OP fan: you never read any one piece

guess what you guys are both right so this thread can end itself now

op > naruto

kthxbai


----------



## MIHAWK. (Feb 8, 2008)

that is true

but plastic surgery? in naruto? bro it came out of nowhere without being needed,without a way to explain it and without making him cooler or stronger

and it isn't common thinking that thing about jiraiya,he didn't summon then and then he changed,he first used his blood on his cheeks and then he took a lot of time to transform,he did on his own

btw when i said that about hidan i meant conserning explanation for them

hidan could use tensei jutsu without even dying

he could revive the dead without a problem,he could use a dead body and with his life energy he could summon anyone from the dead


----------



## Maycara (Feb 8, 2008)

MIHAWK said:


> that is true
> 
> but plastic surgery? in naruto? bro it came out of nowhere without being needed,without a way to explain it and without making him cooler or stronger


Actually...it didnt really. You already knew orchimaru done crazy experiments. Doesnt surprise me at all he done some on himself....



> and it isn't common thinking that thing about jiraiya,he didn't summon then and then he changed,he first used his blood on his cheeks and then he took a lot of time to transform,he did on his own


If I remember correctly the full change didnt take place until those toads appered on him. But you could be right, we truly dont know. 


> btw when i said that about hidan i meant conserning explanation for them


 Me too,  i would love them to be explained.



> hidan could use tensei jutsu without even dying


Maybe, which makes him so badass 



> je could revive the dead without a problem,he could use a dead body and with his life energy he could summon anyone from the dead



maybe, we dont truly know.


----------



## Uzumaki Holyone (Feb 8, 2008)

i personally like Naruto more than One Piece. I just like simpler drawn mangas (and im basing my opinion off of the mangas). Storyline wise though, i love OP more because of all of the Main Characters they have, and how each one has a unique storyline. I find that much more entertaining then just one or two main characters. Also, i just like the feel of Naruto manga, they way its drawn, the feeling i get from it is much different than OP. its hard to describe lol, every week i anticipate the next weeks Naruto manga, but not really the same urgency with the OP manga haha.


----------



## shivak (Feb 8, 2008)

*About all manga*

DBZ was exciting for its era (80s and early 90s)
Its very unfair to compare DBZ to naruto and OP as manga back then was more straight forward.

Both OP and Naruto were fantasy-based so theres no need to compared which is more 'reality-based'. COME ON, ITS NINJAS and PIRATES!
You dun see either of them much in real life.

OP is generally more funny, less intense, more of a fun read, U keep getting more characters and finding out SOME stuff about them,

Naruto is more intense (especially in part 2), more emotionally involved (u keep finding out more and more about old characters, eg. naruto's parents, sasuke and itachi's past and stuff)

Comparing OP to Naruto is like 
comparing Sesame Street and Britney Spears.

Sesame Street = OP
always the same, Luffy recruiting more nakama, each arc climaxing when fellow nakama gets into deep trouble (ROBIN WE WILL NEVER ABANDON U)
Same formula, overall plot to getting the ONE PIECE moving slowly... but the formula works, to me at least, its touching, funny. Just like how most kids will get Sesame Street, people who read OP will dig it.

Naruto = Britney Spears.
WHY?
Part 1 was great! Naruto drove me crazy and opps Kishi kept doing it again and again! 
Part 2 is imo, terrible, like Kishi shaved his head, showed some puss in public, got into custody battles, watched his sister get preg, so so intense, and dark.
Just like how britney is 'beginning' to redeem herself, Kishi is beginning to show some promise in the latter developments of Naruto..

Dun flame me.
Take it with a pinch of salt. LOL


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 8, 2008)

shivak said:


> Sesame Street = OP
> always the same, Luffy recruiting more nakama, each arc climaxing when fellow nakama gets into deep trouble (ROBIN WE WILL NEVER ABANDON U)
> Same formula, overall plot to getting the ONE PIECE moving slowly... but the formula works, to me at least, its touching, funny. Just like how most kids will get Sesame Street, people who read OP will dig it.



This episode of One Piece has been brought to you by the number 1 and the letter P.


----------



## Superrazien (Feb 8, 2008)

One Piece is better than Naruto in every way. But I still like Naruto, just in this case Pirates Rapestomp the Ninjas.


----------



## Enter Shikari (Feb 8, 2008)

Naruto > OP
No need for arguments,
because it's 100% proven


----------



## Glued (Feb 8, 2008)

Enter Shikari said:


> Naruto > OP
> No need for arguments,
> because it's 100% proven



 there is something I never seen in Naruto, done in One Piece.

A Fodder Marine standing up to Captain Morgan. Even the Fodders have depth in One Piece.

Thanks for the reintroduction MIHAWK


----------



## Xell (Feb 8, 2008)

Enter Shikari said:


> Naruto > OP
> No need for arguments,
> because it's 100% proven



You know what I love?

One Piece lovers have seen Naruto and can say they dislike it with honesty.

Naruto lovers tend to not watch anything other than Naruto and Bleach and just insult One Piece from the way it looks.

I can only name a minority of individuals whom have seen both and can say they prefer Naruto.


----------



## Hibari Kyoya (Feb 8, 2008)

Xell said:


> You know what I love?
> 
> One Piece lovers have seen Naruto and can say they dislike it with honesty.
> 
> ...



i completely agree i watched Naruto 3 years before Onepiece and i can easily say Onepiece is miles better. Its better written, better plot, better arcs, better villians and most of all better character developement.


----------



## Broleta (Feb 8, 2008)

Enter Shikari said:


> Naruto > OP
> No need for arguments,
> because it's 100% proven



With what? If you want to use proven facts then lets look at the fact One Piece is the best selling manga to sell a single volume in history. Lets look at the fact Kishimoto has only ever won 1 award - a hotshot of the month award for new artists whereas Oda has won prestigious prizes including the Tezuka Award.


----------



## 9TalesOfDestruction (Feb 8, 2008)

One Piece has it........

just has an overal quality that never goes away, it's funny, serious, and action packed.  Does all these elements equally well to make for a quality series.

Naruto on the other hand....is really good.....lost alot of it's humor......the action is very good, and the plot is very interesting......alot of spoon feeding though sometimes.

and honestly, the main character has lost alot of his power in its own manga, which is never good writing.  Even when we have chapters where all the strawhats fight and luffy isn't to be seen, it isn't that noticable and luffy remains the main character.  Even when Zorro, probably the equivalent of sasuke, is in the manga he is just as interesting as luffy, but never replaces him. unlike right now with sauske and naruto.

One piece just has a better consitency....both are good though


another thing, one piece has better pacing most the time.  You can have an AMAZING fight, that only last one chapter. where naruto likes to drag things out, like this uchiha fight


----------



## diego99 (Feb 8, 2008)

byooki said:


> as of late, the naruto manga (and anime for that matter) has really turned into a piece of shit
> one piece has always been the superior shonen



well, never watch or read OP but i'm pretty much agree naruto in part2 it's a sucks thing...


----------



## Kuroro (Feb 8, 2008)

I find One Piece to be better than Naruto overall. Still, I find Kishi to be better than Oda when it comes to certain things such as pacing and artwork.


----------



## Gritz (Feb 8, 2008)

Enter Shikari said:


> Naruto > OP
> No need for arguments,
> because it's 100% proven



You are dead.  Prepare for tombstoning. You have blasphemed One Piece.


----------



## Xell (Feb 8, 2008)

Gritz said:


> You are dead.  Prepare for tombstoning. You have blasphemed One Piece.



ROFL U MUST B A COMEDIAN. CUZ U FUNNI. I GUESS DAT Y NARUTO FANS ARE CONSIDER SMART.

By tombstoning, I assume you mean being completely proven wrong.

It's always the same. You guys always assume we're in the wrong because of your own stupidity. Grow up.


----------



## Gritz (Feb 8, 2008)

Xell said:


> ROFL U MUST B A COMEDIAN. CUZ U FUNNI. I GUESS DAT Y NARUTO FANS ARE CONSIDER SMART.
> 
> By tombstoning, I assume you mean being completely proven wrong.
> 
> It's always the same. You guys always assume we're in the wrong because of your own stupidity. Grow up.



Actually, yes.  I am training to be a comedian.  Thanks for asking.

I'm just being sarcastic to that other poster because you OP fans can't leave people alone.  So what?! That guy liked Naruto better than OP.  What is it to you?

And we ain't stupid.  We just have opinions and you guys don't respect that.  The first sign of that is calling people who think Naruto is better than OP stupid.

YOU grow up.  When I say tombstoning, I mean that him/her saying that he thinks Naruto is better than OP will get him/her flamed by zealots like you for daring to like Kishi's work better than Oda's

Do I need a reson to like Naruto better?  I'll give you one.  Cause Naruto appeal to him/her and me more than OP does.  I've always liked Ninjas better than Pirates.  

There is your reason.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 8, 2008)

Gritz said:


> Actually, yes.  I am training to be a comedian.  Thanks for asking.
> 
> I'm just being sarcastic to that other poster because you OP fans can't leave people alone.  So what?! That guy liked Naruto better than OP.  What is it to you?
> 
> ...



Dude I don't think any One Piece fan is saying they don't respect your opinions. It's just that your opinions when they come to One Piece ARE stupid and wrong because you don't know what the heck you're talking about.

Otherwise yeah the opinions of Naruto fans are respected. If anything you and others are just upset because there are a lot of people that actually find One Piece to be superior to Naruto and you just can't stand that fact.


----------



## koolo (Feb 8, 2008)

i want to know what Geg prefer since he is the only member that i know that follow BOTH one piece and naruto closely


----------



## Supa Swag (Feb 8, 2008)

koolo said:


> i want to know what Geg prefer since he is the only member that i know that follow BOTH one piece and naruto closely



He prefers One Piece I think.


----------



## geG (Feb 8, 2008)

lol

But yeah, One Piece. Once upon a time I considered Naruto and OP equal but that was before Team Snake and Jiraiya vs. Pain.


----------



## Amane Misa (Feb 8, 2008)

Argh...well, I started reading the mangas of the two at pretty much the same time. But for whatever reason, and despite the fact the I love Luffy, OP just didn't capture me at first - same with the anime adaption. 

I found the plot lines really linear (something that makes it totally different from Naruto, whose story, especially in Shippuuden is more of  web - not a bad thing) and the fights bored the hell out of me. *Awaits some kind of pathetic E-Bashing!* 

So I kinda put it aside for a while and immersed myself in Naruto. Yay! But now I've started reading and watching OP again, as I'm up to date with Naruto. And it is starting to interest me more. But I dunno, I never feel any real tension in the OP fights so far. Yeah, they're normally pretty cool, but I never doubt that they're going to win, which takes all the fun out of it! 

I dunno, I'll catch up with OP a bit more before I make my judgement. But honestly, I'm not sure if they're even comparable - they're so different!


----------



## InfIchi (Feb 8, 2008)




----------



## Gritz (Feb 8, 2008)

> But honestly, I'm not sure if they're even comparable - they're so different!



QFW!  

That is exactly right!


----------



## MIHAWK. (Feb 8, 2008)

Firebat said:


> there is something I never seen in Naruto, done in One Piece.
> 
> A Fodder Marine standing up to Captain Morgan. Even the Fodders have depth in One Piece.
> 
> Thanks for the reintroduction MIHAWK


 
lol,i don't know what u r talking about but i'll say thanks

my bad englsh don't let me understand

btw nobody said everyone who thinks naruto better is stupid,i proved that with the posters that justified their post

but to the most ones that come here without reading OP and they must be 9/10 of the people that said naruto>OP haven't read OP so ho wcan they judge it?


----------



## Shishi-O (Feb 8, 2008)

pt 2 in naruto is different like kishi said it would be, darker,....sure.but it is lacking majorly compared to pt 1 naruto, wich i would compare to one piece.

i would keep them on the same lvl.

pt 2 however, or should i call it "CS2/sharingan haxxorz; the tale of sasuke"

wich blows male genetalia...

one piece has a huge sense of wonder still, i mean luffy just learned "gear" seriously awesome.

then there is the mystery of the new world, and dragon!

one piece is gonna be epic, i even think we are about half way through, maybe.

with naruto u know kishi wants to end it the way he rushes through introduced characters, spoils/ drops open plot devices, wich could serve/ enhance the manga.

there is no mystery, everyone on the forums has already predicted the manga all the way through, i don't think we know enough to do that with one piece.

although i think naruto will end with the kids in their early 20's


----------



## Sengoku (Feb 8, 2008)

maybe we can sort of cool things down by not having a 1v1 match with one piece and naruto but an ffa with naruto vs bleach and one piece topic?


----------



## Maycara (Feb 8, 2008)

Sengoku said:


> maybe we can sort of cool things down by not having a 1v1 match with one piece and naruto but an ffa with naruto vs bleach and one piece topic?



You, I, and Everyone knows..Bleach sucks...now. Its only hope is Kenpachi. It shouldnt even be compared to these two.


----------



## InfIchi (Feb 8, 2008)

Minzara said:


> You, I, and Everyone knows..Bleach sucks...now. Its only hope is Kenpachi. It shouldnt even be compared to these two.



i happen to like bleach.


----------



## Maycara (Feb 8, 2008)

InfIchi said:


> i happen to like bleach.



I used to love it. During the SS arc I liked it more then OP, and at one point more then Naruto. Then it became shit. Its just really boring to me now.


----------



## InfIchi (Feb 8, 2008)

Minzara said:


> I used to love it. During the SS arc I liked it more then OP, and at one point more then Naruto. Then it became shit. Its just really boring to me now.



eh i prefer it to naruto lately.

however OP is doing better then them both in my eyes


----------



## Eldritch (Feb 8, 2008)

to tell the truth, all 3 seem boring lately. I'm looking forward to the Reborn! chapters more


----------



## MIHAWK. (Feb 8, 2008)

i say we make an OP vs naruto vs bleach vs FMA vs berserk thread

though with the way berserk is progresses it isn't worth to wait so much to get a chapter that almost nothing would happen except infite talking,praising guts and fanservice/sick scenes


----------



## Eldritch (Feb 8, 2008)

FMA? I don't think it be right for that to be in since FMA ended.

FMA is one of my all time favorites, along with death note. And mustang has got to be one of my most favorite characters that ever existed.


----------



## jinjue (Feb 8, 2008)

dawindmaka said:
			
		

> FMA? I don't think it be right for that to be in since FMA ended.


I'm all but absolutely sure that the _Fullmetal Alchemist_ manga is still going. It's just the anime that ended, and the anime and the manga diverged plot-wise so that the anime could have a conclusion that wouldn't spoil the manga.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 9, 2008)

jinjue said:


> I'm all but absolutely sure that the _Fullmetal Alchemist_ manga is still going. It's just the anime that ended, and the anime and the manga diverged plot-wise so that the anime could have a conclusion that wouldn't spoil the manga.



Indeed. The FMA manga is leagues superior to the anime.


----------



## Supa Swag (Feb 9, 2008)

InfIchi said:


> i happen to like bleach.



Somebody actually tolerates Bleach current plot?:amazed


----------



## Maycara (Feb 9, 2008)

Kitty Litter said:


> Somebody actually tolerates Bleach current plot?:amazed



Sometimes I rather Nail my dick to a wall, then read Bleach most of the time. And I am serious. Only reason I am currently reading it is because of Kenpachi, and he rocks.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 9, 2008)

Kitty Litter said:


> Somebody actually tolerates Bleach current plot?:amazed



People can actually say they LIKE Bleach?


----------



## InfIchi (Feb 9, 2008)

Kitty Litter said:


> Somebody actually tolerates Bleach current plot?:amazed





Aethos said:


> People can actually say they LIKE Bleach?



yeah. i like bleach.

I like the fights, i like the characters and i like what the fights show.


----------



## strongarm85 (Feb 9, 2008)

I'm not going to bother reading through the last five pages of this because we've discussed this many many times in the Outskirts Battle dome, so much in fact that One Piece versus Naruto matches where Banned.

The honest truth is One Piece is around the same level as the original Dragonball series in terms of how strong people are and what they can do. There is not one character in Naruto capable of truely beating the Logias in a fight. The only threat comes from Water elemental jutsu and to be honest the only Naruto character who stands a chance of beating Luffy is Kisame because his attacks are vast enough to play directly against Luffy's Weaknesses. Even then, current Luffy could kill Kisame before he could even make a single seal and end the fight before it begins. They become obsolete though when the logias come into play because they become weightless and when their abilities activate and could simply fly over any of Kisame's attack and range him to death.


----------



## Gritz (Feb 9, 2008)

strongarm85 said:


> I'm not going to bother reading through the last five pages of this because we've discussed this many many times in the Outskirts Battle dome, so much in fact that One Piece versus Naruto matches where Banned.
> 
> The honest truth is One Piece is around the same level as the original Dragonball series in terms of how strong people are and what they can do. There is not one character in Naruto capable of truely beating the Logias in a fight. The only threat comes from Water elemental jutsu and to be honest the only Naruto character who stands a chance of beating Luffy is Kisame because his attacks are vast enough to play directly against Luffy's Weaknesses. Even then, current Luffy could kill Kisame before he could even make a single seal and end the fight before it begins. They become obsolete though when the logias come into play because they become weightless and when their abilities activate and could simply fly over any of Kisame's attack and range him to death.



I can see where you are coming from, but I don't think that Luffy is invincible.  People underestimate Genjutsu.  One good one, and you are dead before you know it.  But I agree.  The Logias are the real HAXX of the Shonen World.  You not only can control an element, but you ARE an element.  The Sharingan ain't got shit on a Logia.   

I personally think Sasuke could beat Luffy.  In the words of Dave Chappelle, *Yes, I said it *!!


----------



## Dark World Lightning (Feb 9, 2008)

What's even the point of comparing the One Piece and Naruto battledome fandoms?


----------



## Gritz (Feb 9, 2008)

Dark World Lightning said:


> What's even the point of comparing the One Piece and Naruto battledome fandoms?



We are never going to agree about which is the better manga.  We might as well battledome.


----------



## Kaenboshi (Feb 9, 2008)

Gritz said:


> I can see where you are coming from, but I don't think that Luffy is invincible.  People underestimate Genjutsu.  One good one, and you are dead before you know it.  But I agree.  The Logias are the real HAXX of the Shonen World.  You not only can control an element, but you ARE an element.  The Sharingan ain't got shit on a Logia.
> 
> I personally think Sasuke could beat Luffy.  In the words of Dave Chappelle, *Yes, I said it *!!


    You're joking, right?


----------



## Gritz (Feb 9, 2008)

Kaenboshi said:


> You're joking, right?



I kid you NOT!!!! 

No seriously.  I don't think Luffy is THAT fast even with Gear 2.  Also, Sasuke has gotten pretty nifty with Genjustu.  I doubt Luffy knows how to deal with those.  Once Luffy is in a genjutsu, Sasuke just lops off his head.   This is just Sasuke vs Luffy.  No interference.


----------



## Superrazien (Feb 9, 2008)

One of the best things Oda did with One Piece, was he created an amazing world and keeps adding to it, he keeps making this OP world his own, and keeps coming up with things you would not expect. Naruto on the other hand has a interesting world, but Kishi doesn't capitalized on it at all, its always mission this, save Sasuke, ect.. A new village is just a new place, theres nothing really interesting about it. Kishi's world just feels dull, even Dragonball had a awesome world, Naruto fails to make something great out of the world Kishi created.



Gritz said:


> I kid you NOT!!!!
> 
> No seriously.  I don't think Luffy is THAT fast even with Gear 2.  Also, Sasuke has gotten pretty nifty with Genjustu.  I doubt Luffy knows how to deal with those.  Once Luffy is in a genjutsu, Sasuke just lops off his head.   This is just Sasuke vs Luffy.  No interference.



Luffy not is gear 2 is proven to be faster than sound, Gear 2 makes him 3 to 5 times faster. His strength feats own anything Tsuande could dream of doing and she is said to be able to kill anyone in Naruto with one punch. Genjutsu wont work on Luffy because he does not has a chakra system to manipulate, Sasuke could never cut Luffys head off because he lacks the speed, and skill. Luffy is on par with Zoro, it will take a swordsman of his caliber or higher to lop of Luffys head and it wont be done with ease.

Luffy Vs Sasuke is just as unfair as Sasuke Vs Goku, his odds won't change he will always have a 0% chance.


----------



## Dark World Lightning (Feb 9, 2008)

> No seriously. I don't think Luffy is THAT fast even with Gear 2. Also, Sasuke has gotten pretty nifty with Genjustu. I doubt Luffy knows how to deal with those. Once Luffy is in a genjutsu, Sasuke just lops off his head. This is just Sasuke vs Luffy. No interference.



Luffy no-sold Eneru's mind-reading mantra as a parlour trick of his so it's not like he's instantly vulnerable to genjutsu.


----------



## ... (Feb 9, 2008)

i usually don't reply in these kind of threads coz i seriously don't like them.

why do i not like them?
one person might prefer classical  music over rap and another person  might prefer the reverse.
one person might like physics as to his taste,the other might like biology better.
one person might prefer mango,the other might prefer apple.

now do we all need to justify our tastes?why we like it?is there even a reason to it?i mean,we all have certain kind of genes and a certain kind of brain -influenced by the environment.that's the reason.the whole issue is subjective,so why debate on it?

i don't care to reply to the morons who do not understand that.
yes,*i like naruto a million times better*,because inspite of trying my best i couldn't stick to OnePiece for more than a few volumes.And the reason for that is a matter of taste,nothing more.

And i also notice that most OP fans are idiotic enough to ask reasons for it.And they don't just stop there,they even bad-mouth the othetrs who don't like it.If this is all the influence of the OP manga,then i better stay away from it.


----------



## Xell (Feb 9, 2008)

Gritz said:


> Actually, yes.  I am training to be a comedian.  Thanks for asking.



Uh-oh. Prepare for coughs and no laughs what so ever.



Gritz said:


> I'm just being sarcastic to that other poster because you OP fans can't leave people alone.  So what?! That guy liked Naruto better than OP.  What is it to you?
> 
> And we ain't stupid.  We just have opinions and you guys don't respect that.  The first sign of that is calling people who think Naruto is better than OP stupid.
> 
> ...



How can an anime / manga appeal to someone more than another if that person hasn't seen one of them? 

You know what that's called? That's called being ignorant. Judging something by the way it looks? Pathetic.

You see a One Piece vs. Naruto thread, and you have not seen One Piece, what do you do? DON'T FUCKING POST IN IT. But no, these are Naruto fans. These are people who think "Naruto bes anime eva. bleech kl 2". 

Well, Aethos pretty much spoke for me after your post. I don't give a shit about this whole 'opinion' crap. You can have an opinion once you've actually watched One Piece. But until then.. Don't post in this damn thread.



... said:


> i usually don't reply in these kind of threads coz i seriously don't like them.
> 
> why do i not like them?
> one person might prefer classical  music over rap and another person  might prefer the reverse.
> ...



We ask for reasons because there obviously has to be a reason. It's not hard to type out a reason as to why you prefer it.

Fair enough, you've read some volumes and given it a chance. Most of the people in this thread are saying 'Naruto > One Piece', but have not even read or seen it.


----------



## Tachikoma (Feb 9, 2008)

Kitty Litter said:


> Somebody actually tolerates Bleach current plot?:amazed


Soul Society Version 2. 
Over Roh Roh Powah'd Kenpachi.


----------



## Teach (Feb 9, 2008)

Gritz said:


> I kid you NOT!!!!
> 
> No seriously.  I don't think Luffy is THAT fast even with Gear 2.  Also, Sasuke has gotten pretty nifty with Genjustu.  I doubt Luffy knows how to deal with those.  Once Luffy is in a genjutsu, Sasuke just lops off his head.   This is just Sasuke vs Luffy.  No interference.



Even if he got into genjutsu which is highly unlikely he has a dumb mode.


----------



## Xell (Feb 9, 2008)

Gritz said:


> I kid you NOT!!!!
> 
> No seriously.  I don't think Luffy is THAT fast even with Gear 2.  Also, Sasuke has gotten pretty nifty with Genjustu.  I doubt Luffy knows how to deal with those.  Once Luffy is in a genjutsu, Sasuke just lops off his head.   This is just Sasuke vs Luffy.  No interference.



Luffy doesn't have chakra. Sasuke needs chakra to manipulate to make a Genjutsu. Luffy has none.

Luffy wins even if he were to get trapped in a Genjutsu.


----------



## Broleta (Feb 9, 2008)

Lol @ my character can beat your character. Anyway,



Gritz said:


> I don't think Luffy is THAT fast even with Gear 2.


Have you actually read One Piece? Luffy matched soru users with Gear Second.



Gritz said:


> Once Luffy is in a genjutsu, Sasuke just lops off his head.


Have you actually read Naruto? Genjutsu works by manipulating chakra. Luffy doesn't have chakra therefore Sasuke has none to manipulate. Therefore Genjutsu doesn't have any effect. Please learn how your series works before arguing for it. I don't even read Naruto anymore because I couldn't tolerate it anymore yet I still remember stuff like this..


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Feb 9, 2008)

InfIchi said:


> yeah. i like bleach.
> 
> I like the fights, i like the characters and i like what the fights show.



Same. This weeks Bleach chapter was easily better than this weeks Naruto imo.


----------



## mystictrunks (Feb 9, 2008)

I never got the appeal of Kenpachi. . .


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 9, 2008)

> Once Luffy is in a genjutsu, Sasuke just lops off his head.



Too bad Luffy's fist would go straight through Sasuke's skull before Sasuke could even attempt to pull out his faggy Uchiha powers.


----------



## Suzume (Feb 9, 2008)

I haven't read through the rest of the thread, but I'm guessing that OP is raping Naruto in terms of popularity.  I really just never got into OP.  There was one point that I thought it was interesting, but then I lost interest again pretty quickly.  It's just not my thing.


----------



## Xyfar (Feb 9, 2008)

This has to be the dumbest thread ever, comparing two different mangas telling each other how other characters from different shows are more powerful.














It's obvious Goku's poop would own them all


----------



## Supa Swag (Feb 9, 2008)

Gritz said:


> I kid you NOT!!!!
> 
> No seriously.  I don't think Luffy is THAT fast even with Gear 2.  Also, Sasuke has gotten pretty nifty with Genjustu.  I doubt Luffy knows how to deal with those.  Once Luffy is in a genjutsu, Sasuke just lops off his head.   This is just Sasuke vs Luffy.  No interference.



Luffy in base form was able to match Soru speed in Enies Lobby after seeing the basis of the technique earlier. Soru is about the same speed as Kuro's speed, who is also the same guy who disappeared completely from sight. Gear 2 Luffy is at the very least twice as fast as that.

Now Genjutsu is tricky when trying to argue it being used on characters from other series. While Luffy is very weak against illusions/hypnosis, genjutsu works differently, by controlling the chakra of the person being affected. Characters like Luffy don't have chakra. If they did, then they would be able to do such things as run up trees and stand on water.

Sasuke also doesn't really have the strength to hurt or cut Luffy. He can't use Chidori to amplify the sharpness of his swords, because Luffy is completey immune to lightning based attacks.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 9, 2008)

Suzume said:


> I haven't read through the rest of the thread, but I'm guessing that OP is raping Naruto in terms of popularity.  I really just never got into OP.  There was one point that I thought it was interesting, but then I lost interest again pretty quickly.  It's just not my thing.



Why can't all Naruto fans be like you?


----------



## Gritz (Feb 9, 2008)

Will ya'll suckas quit actin all high and mighty?  I know every damn thing about OP.  I was a member of the SaveOnePiece movement to get One Piece away from 4kids.  I know Luffy has the ability to use Soru.  I know about Nightmare Luffy, and all that other bullshit.  I've read the manga and watched the anime all the way up to now.  And you know what?  I STILL prefer Naruto to One Piece anyday.  Not to diss Oda, but I still think that Kishi's story is more interesting.  

And Aethos, You act as if Sasuke would actually stand still and take Luffy's attacks. He knows how to dodge.   Ninjas have been known in this manga to do things in a matter of seconds.  But I'll concede here.  One Piece characters are superhuman and have no chakra.   Therefore, they cannot be affected by Jutsus that affect their chakra.  Matching up a OP character against a Narutoverse Character is pointless.  Two completely different fighting systems.  Sorry about that.

I have read OP.  I just found Naruto more appealing to my tastes.  That is pretty much all there was to it.  I wish it were deeper than that, but its not.  

Anyway, I'm out.  I've had my fun here.  Time to move on to bigger and better things.  

Peace out, suckas!!


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Feb 9, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Why can't all Naruto fans be like you?



But then the OP fans wouldn't be able to call out the illiterates who have never read OP but still think they know it all.


----------



## Supa Swag (Feb 9, 2008)

Gritz said:


> Anyway, I'm out.  I've had my fun here.  Time to move on to bigger and better things.
> 
> Peace out, suckas!!




That's like your 5th time saying this.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 9, 2008)

StrawHat4Life said:


> But then the OP fans wouldn't be able to call out the illiterates who have never read OP but still think they know it all.



But it would make me so happy.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 9, 2008)

Gritz said:


> And Aethos, You act as if Sasuke would actually stand still and take Luffy's attacks. He knows how to dodge.   Ninjas have been known in this manga to do things in a matter of seconds.  But I'll concede here.  One Piece characters are superhuman and have no chakra.   Therefore, they cannot be affected by Jutsus that affect their chakra.  Matching up a OP character against a Narutoverse Character is pointless.  Two completely different fighting systems.  Sorry about that.



If you mean Sasuke would dodge Luffy in super slow motion as that's whhat would actually happen then you are correct. As I said too bad Sasuke would be dead before he could do anything.


----------



## FlashMcqueen (Feb 10, 2008)

So luffy is borderline toon force right? Where is the logic for these feats of his, soru speed, class 100 strength, and plot induced stamina?

And people have the balls to call Naruto the manga PNJ and unsensible?


----------



## Maycara (Feb 10, 2008)

Okay how did this thread become a battledome thing?


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 10, 2008)

FlashMcqueen said:


> So luffy is borderline toon force right? Where is the logic for these feats of his, soru speed, class 100 strength, and plot induced stamina?
> 
> And people have the balls to call Naruto the manga PNJ and unsensible?



Maybe because everyione in One Piece is like this not just Luffy so it never does come off as PNJ and unsensible. Unlike Naruto characters magical DEM eye powers or "THAT jutsus" Heck at least when someone DOES die in One Piece they aren't brought back with the fucking dragonball jutsu.


----------



## FlashMcqueen (Feb 10, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Maybe because everyione in One Piece is like this not just Luffy so it never does come off as PNJ and unsensible. Unlike Naruto characters magical DEM eye powers or "THAT jutsus" Heck at least when someone DOES die in One Piece they aren't brought back with the fucking dragonball jutsu.


Still doesn't anwser my question, where does the logic come from when characters like Luffy manage to withstand a lighting blast that should have melted him to goo when Eneru did his strongest attack on him and it didn't effect him despite him being made of rubber.

Oh and no one in One Piece ever dies, except if it's in the past. Which is rare.

I call bullshit, and probably toon force.


----------



## Shadow Replication 1480 (Feb 10, 2008)

Well, there is that Marine that Morgan killed and Bellamy, so saying no one dies in the present time is kinda incorrect.


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Feb 10, 2008)

FlashMcqueen said:


> Still doesn't anwser my question, where does the logic come from when characters like Luffy manage to withstand a lighting blast that should have melted him to goo when Eneru did his strongest attack on him and it didn't effect him despite him being made of rubber.
> 
> Oh and no one in One Piece ever dies, except if it's in the past. Which is rare.
> 
> I call bullshit, and probably toon force.



If you've read OP you should know. Why would you even attempt to apply any logic to a world with talking reindeer. You just accept the author's vision and move on. You have no point.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 10, 2008)

FlashMcqueen said:


> Still doesn't anwser my question, where does the logic come from when characters like Luffy manage to withstand a lighting blast that should have melted him to goo when Eneru did his strongest attack on him and it didn't effect him despite him being made of rubber.
> 
> Oh and no one in One Piece ever dies, except if it's in the past. Which is rare.
> 
> I call bullshit, and probably toon force.



And no one but adult fodder or bad guys die in Naruto. What's your point?


----------



## FlashMcqueen (Feb 10, 2008)

Aethos said:


> And no one but adult fodder or bad guys die in Naruto. What's your point?


My point is One Piece is so plot holeish that even the characters seems omipotent in power compared to Naruto characters?

Luffy shouldn't have won against, Eneru, Lucci, and Oz without serious plot plot fruit and explanation of his so called gomu gomu limatations.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 10, 2008)

FlashMcqueen said:


> My point is One Piece is so plot holeish that even the characters seems onipotent in power compared to Naruto characters?
> 
> Luffy shouldn't have won against, Eneru, Lucci, and Oz without serious plot plot fruit and explanation of his so called gomu gomu limatations.



I would type out a proper response to this, but I'm laughing like fucking crazy here. I think I may die laughing thanks to you.


----------



## FlashMcqueen (Feb 10, 2008)

Aethos said:


> I would type out a proper response to this, but I'm laughing like fucking crazy here. I think I may die laughing thanks to you.


Whats so funny? One Piece?


----------



## Maycara (Feb 10, 2008)

FlashMcqueen said:


> Whats so funny? One Piece?



I believe he is laughing at you....


----------



## FlashMcqueen (Feb 10, 2008)

Minzara said:


> I believe he is laughing at you....


Well thats not nice.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 10, 2008)

well you asked for it when you said that Luffy shouldn't have been able to beat Eneru without plot no jutsu. I mean seriously that's just ridiculous. Even more ridiculous than you saying he beat Lucci with plot no jutsu.


----------



## FlashMcqueen (Feb 10, 2008)

Aethos said:


> well you asked for it when you said that Luffy shouldn't have been able to beat Eneru without plot no jutsu. I mean seriously that's just ridiculous. Even more ridiculous than you saying he beat Lucci with plot no jutsu.


But Eneru has lighting for a element and faster speed. Luuci trained his own style with soru and realistically is supposed to be faster than Luffy. I find it odd that 17 year old could defeat master devil fruit users that have Luffy in a disadvantage so easily.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 10, 2008)

FlashMcqueen said:


> But Eneru has lighting for a element and faster speed. Luuci trained his own style with soru and realistically is supposed to be faster than Luffy. I find it odd that 17 year old could defeat master devil fruit users that have Luffy in a disadvantage so easily.



maybe it's because Luffy is made of rubber? That should at least prove why he beat Eneru. As for Lucci. I say Aokiji's defeat and wanting to become stronger to protect his nakama is reason enough why he defeated Lucci.


----------



## Micku (Feb 10, 2008)

Xell said:


> Luffy doesn't have chakra. Sasuke needs chakra to manipulate to make a Genjutsu. Luffy has none.
> 
> Luffy wins even if he were to get trapped in a Genjutsu.



I don't really want to argue about who would win because I don't really care all that much, but I thought everything has chakra? Chakra is almost another word for Chi or Ki or spirtual engery. Correct me if I'm wrong though. 

The Naruto version of Chakra is engery that lives in every living organisms. The way Ninja fight, use ninjutsu and genjutsu involve chakra. Without the use of Chakra, Lee wouldn't be fast probably and Sakura wouldn't be powerfully and etc. The reason why ninjas of Naruto are so powerfully is because they use their Chakra to it's fullest potiential. Other people could use Chakra better than others and other people have more Chakra than others. In a nutshell, without chakra they won't be ninjas and they probably won't be alive. 

Chakra is also proportional to phyiscal engery too I think. You must train your phyiscal shape and spirtual shape aka chakra to produce a more deadly attack. For example, Lee uses chakra but he just don't have talent to use ninjutsu. He probably use chakra to run really fast. Same thing with other people in Naruto universal. 

In dragonball, they have Ki. They use Ki to fly or to use engery attacks. 

In Yu Yu Hakusho they used spirtual engery.  It's another version of Chi or Ki.

In Bleach I think they have Ki or Chi too. Another type of spirtual engery. 

In Kenshin they had Chi or Ki too. Swordmans Ki. Although they could not use anything magical as Naruto or the other mangas did, but they had spirtual engery. 

The bottom line is that Chi or Ki is just engery. Chakra is just another name for this term. It's basically the same thing, but each person just use it a bit differently and every living person has it. If the Naruto characters was in the dragonball universal, chakra would be rename into Ki engery. If the Naruto characters would've been in the Tenchi universal, I think it chakra would've been rename Chi (I don't remember). If Naruto was in World of Warcraft, chakra would've been named Mana and etc. 

If Luffy does not have chakra that probably mean he does not have Ki or Chi since chakra and Ki is a bit indistinguishable. And Chi and Ki is pretty much the same too; it's just a different name.

So, I just doubt Luffy does not have Chakra. He could be affected by genjutsu and he could use genjutsu if he was train to do it. But since he is in another world/manga, it would unfair to compare. By defination of the Naruto universal, everyone should have chakra/chi/ki. If Luffy do not, than he probably wouldn't be living in the naruto world or other manga that involves spirtual engery I think.  

There is a difference if you can't use chakra and you have chakra.


----------



## lazyeyeZ0o (Feb 10, 2008)

another thing, i cant stand about op.

luffy is trapped in a corner, in a fight or something. suddenly, he gets a extra power boost whenever someone screams his name. wtf is that?

if op only that once, it would be cool but it happened at least 5 times.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 10, 2008)

What you said makes no sense.

and if ya wanna complain about sudden power boosts when being thrashed,go and complain about sumoning fox demon.

At least Luffy reportedly stated that he trained those new techniques LONG BEFORE he used them.


----------



## ... (Feb 10, 2008)

Gritz said:


> I STILL prefer Naruto to One Piece anyday.  Not to diss Oda, but I still think that Kishi's story is more interesting.
> 
> 
> I have read OP.  I just found Naruto more appealing to my tastes.  That is pretty much all there was to it.  I wish it were deeper than that, but its not.



ya,somebody make them understand this.
there can't be any justification or debate over someone's tastes.
that's ridiculous.
people have different tastes.And i guess that is one of the main reasons that we are all so different.
but if you really want a reason,it will boil down to genes,environment and the build up of our brain.


----------



## Broleta (Feb 10, 2008)

lazyeyeZ0o said:


> another thing, i cant stand about op.
> 
> luffy is trapped in a corner, in a fight or something. suddenly, he gets a extra power boost whenever someone screams his name. wtf is that?
> 
> if op only that once, it would be cool but it happened at least 5 times.



When? Are you talking about adrenaline? Like when he pushed the buildings apart and when he beat Lucci? I thought those were epic myself.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 10, 2008)

lazyeyeZ0o said:


> another thing, i cant stand about op.
> 
> luffy is trapped in a corner, in a fight or something. suddenly, he gets a extra power boost whenever someone screams his name. wtf is that?
> 
> if op only that once, it would be cool but it happened at least 5 times.



Because Naruto using fucking Kyuubi isn't the SAME FUCKING THING! AM I FUCKING RIGHT?!


----------



## Broleta (Feb 10, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Because Naruto using fucking Kyuubi isn't the SAME FUCKING THING! AM I FUCKING RIGHT?!



Yeah. It's basically shounen 101. Naruto, Luffy, Goku, Allen Walker etc all do this..


----------



## Agung (Feb 10, 2008)

lazyeyeZ0o said:


> another thing, i cant stand about op.
> 
> luffy is trapped in a corner, in a fight or something. suddenly, he gets a extra power boost whenever someone screams his name. wtf is that?
> 
> if op only that once, it would be cool but it happened at least 5 times.



Vs Crocodile all 3 rounds? No.
Vs Eneru? No.
Vs Foxy? No.
Vs Aokiji? No.
Vs Franky? No.
Vs Lucci? Debatable, b/c Ussop was yelling at Luffy to get the fuck up and not be a pussy.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 10, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Because Naruto using fucking Kyuubi isn't the SAME FUCKING THING! AM I FUCKING RIGHT?!


swat I said-Only I dont realy read that much of Naruto ,so I didnt know the name.

and yeah-its basicly a shohen device.A call for themselves to pull themselves together and go to their REAL limits.


----------



## mystictrunks (Feb 10, 2008)

FlashMcqueen said:


> My point is One Piece is so plot holeish that even the characters seems omipotent in power compared to Naruto characters?
> 
> Luffy shouldn't have won against, Eneru, Lucci, and Oz without serious plot plot fruit and explanation of his so called gomu gomu limatations.



Enels lightning doesn't effect rubber. At all. There's your explanation. 


Lucci and Luffy were even. Luffy just got a moral boost from Ussop. 

Oz got taken down after the Strawhats team attacked him.


----------



## mystictrunks (Feb 10, 2008)

Micku said:


> I don't really want to argue about who would win because I don't really care all that much, but I thought everything has chakra? Chakra is almost another word for Chi or Ki or spirtual engery. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
> 
> The Naruto version of Chakra is engery that lives in every living organisms. The way Ninja fight, use ninjutsu and genjutsu involve chakra. Without the use of Chakra, Lee wouldn't be fast probably and Sakura wouldn't be powerfully and etc. The reason why ninjas of Naruto are so powerfully is because they use their Chakra to it's fullest potiential. Other people could use Chakra better than others and other people have more Chakra than others. In a nutshell, without chakra they won't be ninjas and they probably won't be alive.
> 
> ...




Actually chakra in naruto is a physical part of their body(those chakra cords)

Naruto is the only manga that has those I believe.


----------



## Superrazien (Feb 10, 2008)

lazyeyeZ0o said:


> another thing, i cant stand about op.
> 
> luffy is trapped in a corner, in a fight or something. suddenly, he gets a extra power boost whenever someone screams his name. wtf is that?
> 
> if op only that once, it would be cool but it happened at least 5 times.



To bad this only happened once against Lucci. Also its a much better way to defeat an opponent by your shear will and determination rather than summoning the ultimate energy to your aid ( Naruto), or have some person randomly appear to save you then get there ass kicked ( Bleach).


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 10, 2008)

If anything the Naruto fans are coming off as hypocrites as many of the things they criticize One Piece for are ironically IN Naruto. Not only that but those things are used in Naruto FAR more than they are in One Piece.


----------



## iander (Feb 10, 2008)

My favorite is when Luffy nails Mr 3 when he was using that illusion thing or whatever that made multiple copies of himself.  Mr 3 asks how he knew and Luffy just says instinct.  I think it would have been slightly better if he said lucky guess and it would have gone more with his character.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 10, 2008)

iander said:


> My favorite is when Luffy nails Mr 3 when he was using that illusion thing or whatever that made multiple copies of himself.  Mr 3 asks how he knew and Luffy just says instinct.  I think it would have been slightly better if he said lucky guess and it would have gone more with his character.



At least that makes more sense than "Sasuke's super escape from an explosion that should have killed him" not to mention "Kakuzu gets fooled easily by a kage buushin trick he should have seen through instantly given his experience."


----------



## Lirik (Feb 10, 2008)

Minzara said:


> Sometimes I rather Nail my dick to a wall, then read Bleach most of the time. And I am serious. Only reason I am currently reading it is because of Kenpachi, and he rocks.



QFT.

Bleach is beyond terrible atm.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 11, 2008)

Aethos said:


> If anything the Naruto fans are coming off as hypocrites as many of the things they criticize One Piece for are ironically IN Naruto. Not only that but those things are used in Naruto FAR more than they are in One Piece.



thats EXACTLY it.

viz AkuOni (Luffy is not even human-compared to half snake demon,Naruto surviving skin pealage,etc............)


----------



## Mullet_Power (Feb 11, 2008)

Ok I am sick of the hypocritical ramblings about deaths in One Piece. I am going to list this shit out so people can understand that Naruto is on an even level. First thing I'll get at is yes most of the deaths in One Piece happen in flashbacks. This has nothing to do with the argument and because they happened in the flashback doesn't mean it didn't happen, or that it was less dramatic.

People try and claim is that no one every stays dead in One Piece and that Naruto no one ever comes back. There is only 1 character that we were told outright was dead in One Piece and that was Pell. He sacrificed himself by flying a huge bomb into the sky to save his kingdom, they even had a funeral for him. The counter for this is obviously Gaara, he was completly dead and brought back to life by Chiyo. Another example is Chouji in the rescue Sasuke arc. The pill Chouji took was supposed to kill him, not weaken him, not bring him to an inch of his life, it was specifically stated that it would kill him. But then at the last second Kishi hit the cancel button.

The next thing people say is that One Piece has often put characters in unsurvivable situations and no one ever dies. With minor fodder aside I would have to agree it is amazing how they survive these attacks that we thought killed had them. But to say Naruto hasn't done the same thing, is just stupid. 

How many times has Kakashi appeared to take a fatal blow and be replaced with a log? 
How many Kage Bunshins have been hit while Naruto remains unharmed? 
How many fatal wounds turned out to be Genjutsu's? 

The list goes on and on. But a couple of major examples of this happening is Sasuke in the Water Country arc and Neji  in the rescue Sasuke arc. These are all great examples of where characters have received what seemed to be fatal wounds, and appeared to die, but some how lived through it.

The last thing i would like to bring up is gonna be more of a personal opinion but i think it is important. This being that for some reason people think that killing characters some how makes Naruto a better manga, and makes it more dramatic. Deaths in Naruto are no longer dramatic, because it has become a friggin routine in part 2. Big fight, final ability shown, flash back, character dies. Every time for almost every arc in part 2. Seriously as soon as Jiraiya started fighting Pein it was so obvious that he was going to die. It completely sucked the drama of one of the most important people to the main character dying that I felt no emotion when Kishi tried to pass off this chapter long dramatic death. Oda made me care more about a friggin' boat more than I cared about Jiraiya.

Backing out on deaths is a common thing for both One Piece and Naruto so please stop trying to say that it makes One Piece worse then Naruto, because then you just look like an idiot.


----------



## The Scientist (Feb 12, 2008)

I haven't read/watched one piece yet, so I have absolutely no opinion....everyone seems to mention that manga these days though....perhaps I should check it out.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 12, 2008)

The Scientist said:


> I haven't read/watched one piece yet, so I have absolutely no opinion....everyone seems to mention that manga these days though....perhaps I should check it out.



Well if you do just be sure to not judge it solely by the art and actualy go into it for the story and characters. One Piece starts slow but it's worth sticking with as it gets better and better.

And well considering the majority of people that bash One Piece in this thread don't know what they're talking abuot. Just take there opinions in stride and make your own judgement on the series.


----------



## Ryan (Feb 12, 2008)

One Piece my ass, retarded manga for retarded people.


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Feb 12, 2008)

ρяίvàтε said:


> One Piece my ass, retarded manga for retarded people.



Thank you for gracing us retarded OP fans with your awesome wit and intelligence. I've never read a post with such substance and intelligence.


----------



## Ryan (Feb 12, 2008)

StrawHat4Life said:


> Thank you for gracing us retarded OP fans with your awesome wit and intelligence. I've never read a post with such substance and intelligence.


 
Glad to help.


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Feb 12, 2008)

oh you helped alright. Just didn't make much sense but you helped.  Hmmmm....how many chapters of One Piece have you read exactly?


----------



## Ryan (Feb 12, 2008)

StrawHat4Life said:


> oh you helped alright. Just didn't make much sense but you helped.


 
That's good to hear, at least I helped 

EDIT: am keeping up with the anime, but I read spoilers from time to time.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 12, 2008)

ρяίv?тε said:


> One Piece my ass, retarded manga for retarded people.



I think you spelled Naruto wrong.


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Feb 12, 2008)

How can you critique something you've never read before? and which version of the anime have you seen?


----------



## Ryan (Feb 12, 2008)

StrawHat4Life said:


> How can you critique something you've never read before? and which version of the anime have you seen?


 
Lol, I read it and I actually like it, am just tired of hearing you guys bashing Naruto, eveyone has a different taste, so go to OP section and spam/ troll about OP there, no one here cares about your opinions.

The Jap of course _(subbed)_.


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Feb 12, 2008)

No need to get defensive but when you have people who have only ever read Naruto bashing One Piece it gets a little grating.


----------



## vagnard (Feb 12, 2008)

OP is one of the most overrated series ever in my opinion. I find it very boring, stupid filled with hundred of useless supporting characters. It seems Oda creates a new useless character every single chapter. The fights are boring, long and over the top. The characters are very basic without shades or development. 

Naruto isn't even my favourite shounen. But it's way better than OP. The characters, the art, the pace, the development, the story.... i like Naruto 1000 times better than OP.


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Feb 12, 2008)

see what I mean it's a never ending battle against stupidity. Opinion is one thing but baseless BS is another. How do you even respond to that kind of stuff.


----------



## Ryan (Feb 12, 2008)

StrawHat4Life said:


> No need to get defensive but when you have people who have only ever read Naruto bashing One Piece it gets a little grating.


 
I agree, but can we stop this now?
You're not going to change anyone's mind like this.


----------



## vagnard (Feb 12, 2008)

Mullet_Power said:


> Ok I am sick of the hypocritical ramblings about deaths in One Piece. I am going to list this shit out so people can understand that Naruto is on an even level. First thing I'll get at is yes most of the deaths in One Piece happen in flashbacks. This has nothing to do with the argument and because they happened in the flashback doesn't mean it didn't happen, or that it was less dramatic.
> 
> People try and claim is that no one every stays dead in One Piece and that Naruto no one ever comes back. There is only 1 character that we were told outright was dead in One Piece and that was Pell. He sacrificed himself by flying a huge bomb into the sky to save his kingdom, they even had a funeral for him. The counter for this is obviously Gaara, he was completly dead and brought back to life by Chiyo. Another example is Chouji in the rescue Sasuke arc. The pill Chouji took was supposed to kill him, not weaken him, not bring him to an inch of his life, it was specifically stated that it would kill him. But then at the last second Kishi hit the cancel button.
> 
> ...



What about Haku, Zabuza, Sound 3, Sound 5, Sandaime, Hayate, Asuma, Akatsuki members, Chiyo, Jiraiya?. 

All of them died on screen. 

You can complain about kawamiri, Chouji or Gaara all you want.

Still the death record of Naruto is superior by far to One Piece or Bleach. 

Those series simply lack drama. The most terrible thing is Zoro taking the damage of Luffy after the fight against Moria. WTF.... that was so fucking pointless.... there was no consecuence after that at all. Just the classic stupid OP celebration party after they take the villian of some random island with dozens of pointless and useless characters that doesn't add anything to the series.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 12, 2008)

> see what I mean it's a never ending battle against stupidity. Opinion is one thing but baseless BS is another. How do you even respond to that kind of stuff.



Point taken, but I just got one thing to say to that other person...



vagnard said:


> OP is one of the most overrated series ever in my opinion. I find it very boring, stupid filled with hundred of useless supporting characters. It seems Oda creates a new useless character every single chapter. The fights are boring, long and over the top. The characters are very basic without shades or development.
> 
> Naruto isn't even my favourite shounen. But it's way better than OP. The characters, the art, the pace, the development, the story.... i like Naruto 1000 times better than OP.



At least Oda uses his characters unlike Kishimoto who just ignores all of them in favor of showing Naruto and Sasuke having tons of drama over wanting to have gay sex with each other.

At least One Piece stays consistantly good and gets even better as time goes on. Naruto is a fucking overrated piece of shit because it went from decent in part 1 to an absolute shit fest version of brokeback mountain in part 2. If that's what you call a deep and "dark" story then you need to get your fucking brain examined.


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Feb 12, 2008)

So now killing off your characters is the hallmark of a superior manga? 

Yeah unlike Kishi Oda actually has an imagination and coming up with a complex world filled with unique characters is lot better then non nonstop close ups and forest settings. Naruto lacks depth, diversity, and real drama especially as of part 2.


----------



## Ryan (Feb 12, 2008)

Hey tards, watch what you like and keep your opinion for yourself, no one cares about them, can we get some peace here now?


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Feb 12, 2008)

This is a OP vs Naruto thread what do you expect?


----------



## Ryan (Feb 12, 2008)

Yeah, and this is Naruto's section, what's your point? 



> *Konoha Library *
> Come here to talk about the _Naruto_ manga, but remember not to be too loud.


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Feb 12, 2008)

: So if I'm posting in a Naruto section I automatically love Naruto better? and if I'm in the OP section I automatically love OP better? 

This is a debate about the virtues of Naruto vs OP if you don't like it no one's forcing you to be here.


----------



## Ryan (Feb 12, 2008)

No, am just saying this is going nowhere, and this section is suppose to be all about _Naruto_ manga. Besides what are we really debating about? opinions? meh, that's retarded if you asked me.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Feb 12, 2008)

vagnard said:


> OP is one of the most overrated series ever in my opinion. I find it very boring, stupid filled with hundred of useless supporting characters. It seems Oda creates a new useless character every single chapter. The fights are boring, long and over the top. The characters are very basic without shades or development.
> 
> Naruto isn't even my favourite shounen. But it's way better than OP. The characters, the art, the pace, the development, the story.... i like Naruto 1000 times better than OP.



Yeah, clearly overrated compared to Naruto...


----------



## Supa Swag (Feb 12, 2008)

vagnard said:


> What about Haku, Zabuza, Sound 3, Sound 5, Sandaime, Hayate, Asuma, Akatsuki members, Chiyo, Jiraiya?.
> 
> All of them died on screen.
> 
> ...



See a trend here?

Bad guys and old people.

Kishimoto only kills that group, and when he does EVERYONE can see it coming a mile away (IE Sarutobi, Asuma, Jiraiya). It completely sucks out all the drama.

Oda doesn't kill outside his flashbacks because it's useless.

Kubo is just a moron.


Either way, the number of deaths doesn't determine the quality of a series. Also, Naruto tries to be somewhat realistic, while Oda goes completely for fantasy and in this instance Oda does a better job of maintaining that atmosphere.


----------



## competitionbros (Feb 12, 2008)

ρяίv?тε said:


> Hey tards, watch what you like and *keep your opinion for yourself, no one cares about them, can we get some peace here now?*





Lol, do you say that in a character battle thread? If not ya really shouldn't say it here.





Who's saying that death=great? Probably the same people that bas DBZ (where people die several times on screen).


----------



## Ryan (Feb 12, 2008)

competitionbros said:


> Lol, do you say that in a character battle thread? If not ya really shouldn't say it here.


 
Okay. 

Comparing character's possible strength is something, but stating that a certain manga is better than another manga is just retarded. Some people may agree with you and others may not, but it will always be an opinion of yours, no matter of what you say.


----------



## competitionbros (Feb 12, 2008)

ρяίvàтε said:


> Okay.
> 
> Comparing character's possible strength is something, but stating that a certain manga is better than another manga is just retarded. Some people may agree with you and others may not, but it will always be an opinion of yours, no matter of what you say.





Isn't it the same with character strength? Being that it's all opinion? No matter what the topic is of one thing vs. another it's always gonna be opinion backed with facts that support your opinion. Sorry but to disapprove of one debate over another is kinda stupid.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 12, 2008)

competitionbros said:


> Lol, do you say that in a character battle thread? If not ya really shouldn't say it here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



especialy when in DBZ,EVERYONE who dies ever so dramaticaly comes back to life,except the villians (and even this rule has exceptions).

and mr. vagnard -I respect opinions as much as anyone else,BUT if your only point in disliking a series is non-inteligent bashing of the "dis be stuuupid!" type,I cant respect that.At least show some knowledge of the curently top selling and all time 3th best selling (naruto is NOT number 4) series,before you say a series ive seen tons of complaints about-about 1000 times (to use your rhetoric) more then on OP,is "1000 times better".


----------



## Ryan (Feb 12, 2008)

competitionbros said:


> Isn't it the same with character strength? Being that it's all opinion? No matter what the topic is of one thing vs. another it's always gonna be opinion backed with facts that support you're opinion. Sorry but to disapprove of one debate over another is kinda stupid.


 
No, you can say _"Nami can kill Zoro"_ but you aren't going to be taking seriously. You have to prove it somehow with Manga evidence. On the other hand, this topic is ruther useless it will always be an opinion vs opinion, or better taste vs tsate.

I don't even now what are people trying to do here. Personally, I have read both OP and Naruto and I favour Naruto, is this hard to unedrstand?

Yeah, I know some people didn't read it at all, but we can't say thier opinions aren't acceptable. They didn't like the manga, they have thier own reasnos and believe it or not - they don't have to make sence for you.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Feb 12, 2008)

Lobolover said:


> especialy when in DBZ,EVERYONE who dies ever so dramaticaly comes back to life,except the villians (and even this rule has exceptions).
> 
> and mr. vagnard -I respect opinions as much as anyone else,BUT if your only point in disliking a series is non-inteligent bashing of the "dis be stuuupid!" type,I cant respect that.At least show some knowledge of the curently top selling and all time 3th best selling (naruto is NOT number 4) series,before you say a series ive seen tons of complaints about-about 1000 times (to use your rhetoric) more then on OP,is "1000 times better".



Idd, not to mention that saying OP is one of the most overrated series is imo silly aswell as Aethos pointed out.

As for fights being long and boring in OP... they are even longer in Naruto so that point doesnt hold ground.


----------



## competitionbros (Feb 12, 2008)

ρяίvàтε said:


> No, you can say _"Nami can kill Zoro"_ but you aren't going to be taking seriously. You have to prove it somehow with Manga evidence. On the other hand, this topic is ruther useless it will always be an opinion vs opinion, or better taste vs tsate.



Any little ____vs,____ can be taking seriously a person/people push hard enough. With the "Nami can kill Zoro" thing someone can mirage tempo mixed with thunderbolt/dark cloud tempo's over and over.........there, now it's a debate that people take seriously. No matter the topic it's opinion........War=opinion, character fights= opinion, mangas=opinion. 




ρяίvàтε said:


> I don't even now what are people trying to do here. Personally, I have read both OP and Naruto and I favour Naruto, is this hard to unedrstand?



Same with me but I favor One Piece and because of that for some reason I'm branded as "an idiot that enjoys a kid's show" or something to that effect. 



ρяίvàтε said:


> Yeah, I know some people didn't read it at all, but we can't say thier opinions aren't acceptable. They didn't like the manga, they have thier own reasnos and believe it or not - they don't have to make sence for you.




Their opinions aren't acceptable when they present them like facts especially when many of the things they don't like in OP are present in Naruto.


----------



## Ryan (Feb 12, 2008)

competitionbros said:


> Any little ____vs,____ can be taking seriously a person/people push hard enough. With the "Nami can kill Zoro" thing someone can mirage tempo mixed with thunderbolt/dark cloud tempo's over and over.........there, now it's a debate that people take seriously. No matter the topic it's opinion........War=opinion, character fights= opinion, mangas=opinion.


 
You're basically agreeing with me, am just saying opinions are more accetable on the ____vs,____ debates, 'cause it has some logical reasons most of the time, but liking a certain character or a certain manga isn't debatable, it's just an opinion or a fandom.



> Same with me but I favor One Piece and because of that for some reason I'm branded as "an idiot that enjoys a kid's show" or something to that effect.


 


**



> Their opinions aren't acceptable when they present them like facts especially when many of the things they don't like in OP are present in Naruto.


 
Again. Thier opinions doesn't have to make sence to you, tastes differ from a person to another, just accept it like that.



Am off, it's 2:00 Am here.

*_flee_*


----------



## Dark World Lightning (Feb 12, 2008)

> Kishimoto only kills that group, and when he does EVERYONE can see it coming a mile away (IE Sarutobi, Asuma, Jiraiya). It completely sucks out all the drama.



Let's take another manga, Hokuto no Ken: Fist of the North Star.

EVERYONE who knows martial arts in that manga dies except for the protagonist. It really catches you off guard in the first parts but once you realize the pattern death stops becoming dramatic.

I did get pissed a couple of times at certain characters biting the dust, but only because they were so awesome. But Buronson was so stringent about his 'everybody dies' rule that it's hard to feel anything about the characters.

So the only battle in that manga that was really dramatic was Raoh vs. Jyuza, and that's only because Jyuza is the first character in the manga to make Raoh feel worried and because he was going for a way to permanently cripple his opponent rather than live--furthermore their battle was to establish a time limit on a really important plot point.

But Jyuza was a dead man walking. Everyone could see his death coming a mile away BECAUSE the mangaka was so insistent on killing everyone.

Hell, the fact that Rihaku is the only secondary character martial artist that survives until Part II completely took me off guard.


And don't get me started about Stardust Crusaders.


----------



## vagnard (Feb 12, 2008)

Aethos said:


> At least Oda uses his characters unlike Kishimoto who just ignores all of them in favor of showing Naruto and Sasuke having tons of drama over wanting to have gay sex with each other.



Oda uses his characters?. Then tell me what happened to all those secondary characters from all the islands Straw hats left?. Who cares right now about Nojiko or Pell right now? (who was proven to be alive after the Alabasta Arc)

There are hundred of useless characters in One Piece. Hell...even inside the straw hat crew only Nami, Luffy, Zoro, Ussop, Sanji and Robin matters.... all the rest are treated like fodder or comic relief. And the characters are always the same: Luffy as an unineural tard who wants to became Pirate King, Zoro just kills random shitty swordmen until Mihawk and Sanji only got development in his intro arc and just try to look badass with his cigar. 



Aethos said:


> At least One Piece stays consistantly good and gets even better as time goes on. Naruto is a fucking overrated piece of shit because it went from decent in part 1 to an absolute shit fest version of brokeback mountain in part 2. If that's what you call a deep and "dark" story then you need to get your fucking brain examined.



Lol.... consistantly good?. Moria arc is the most shitty piece of fiction I ever read. After Alabasta Arc there hasn't been a decent arc in the whole One Piece.  CP9?.... lol.... it was like watching Visionaries all over again... except it wasn't the 80's. 

It's always the same: Luffy and his crew come to a new island... they meet an evil pirate or marine with some random evil fruit. His crew take down the enemy's crew and Luffy takes all the glory at the end making his "nakama" look like idiots. 

You are the one who has to get your brain examined if you really consider that shitty retarded manga called One Piece a good story. 



Kitty Litter said:


> See a trend here?
> 
> Bad guys and old people.



At last he has the balls to kill people in a shounen manga. And some of them are very important characters plot wise like Sandaime or Jiraiya. 



Kitty Litter said:


> Kishimoto only kills that group, and when he does EVERYONE can see it coming a mile away (IE Sarutobi, Asuma, Jiraiya). It completely sucks out all the drama.



And what do you want?. That he killed important characters randomly?. He must set the drama beforehand giving a little more of character development to create a major impact. Asuma was part of Shikamaru's development. Of course we would get some "wise words" before his departure. 



Kitty Litter said:


> Oda doesn't kill outside his flashbacks because it's useless.



Lol. Why it's useless?. He doesn't just have the balls because his targeted audience can't handle that. Wouldn't be much better if Pell stayed dead at the end?. But he ruined all the drama of Alabasta Arc showing him alive  when Kohza's uncle and ex-Priest Gedatsu opened up a tunnel from Alabasta to a hot spring resort.



Kitty Litter said:


> Kubo is just a moron.



I agree... but I still like Bleach a bit more than One Piece. Even when both of them are shitty mangas. 



Kitty Litter said:


> Either way, the number of deaths doesn't determine the quality of a series. Also, Naruto tries to be somewhat realistic, while Oda goes completely for fantasy and in this instance Oda does a better job of maintaining that atmosphere.



Lol. Naruto is a total fantasy. I never see Kishimoto trying to create a realistic manga. Deaths doesn't make a better manga. But absolute lack of deaths or drama makes a shitty manga. I never fear for any character in OP....even the enemies. It's like watching Looney Tunes but even with less violence. 

The atmosphere in OP was ruined 300 chapters ago when the readers realized that every single arc of OP was exactly the same with different villians and a larger crew.


----------



## rorshach (Feb 12, 2008)

One piece is better than Naruto for one simple reason.  The author isn't a fanboy of one particular character (I think you know who i'm talking about).


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 12, 2008)

Vagnard the fact that you think Bleach is better than One Piece just proves how retarded you are and how unworthy you are of getting a proper response.


----------



## Supa Swag (Feb 12, 2008)

vagnard said:


> You are the one who has to get your brain examined if you really consider that shitty retarded manga called One Piece a good story.




*sigh* Oh boy...I see how it is...





> At last he has the balls to kill people in a shounen manga. And some of them are very important characters plot wise like Sandaime or Jiraiya.




No, he doesn't have balls. If he did, Chouji and Gaara would be DEAD. It doesn't take much to kill people who have already fulfilled their role. If anything, it's a cop-out.





> And what do you want?. That he killed important characters randomly?. He must set the drama beforehand giving a little more of character development to create a major impact. Asuma was part of Shikamaru's development. Of course we would get some "wise words" before his departure.




Like I said if Chouji or Gaara died that would have been great. I'm not the type to really enjoy random deaths (I've got enough of that from Gantz), but I'd rather they stay dead then miraculously come back to life and do nothing for the rest of the story.

And there is no drama if you make obvious for the audience.




> Lol. Why it's useless?. He doesn't just have the balls because his targeted audience can't handle that. Wouldn't be much better if Pell stayed dead at the end?. But he ruined all the drama of Alabasta Arc showing him alive  when Kohza's uncle and ex-Priest Gedatsu opened up a tunnel from Alabasta to a hot spring resort.



It's not that he doesn't have the balls (Shounen authors and balls don't usually go hand in hand) it really is useless. The secondary characters job is done after the SH do their job on an island. Oda just loves to fuck around with them. I mean it's pretty obvious. It's either for you or it's not.





> I agree... but I still like Bleach a bit more than One Piece. Even when both of them are shitty mangas.



Kenpachi and mayuri are the only good things about Bleach right now.





> Lol. Naruto is a total fantasy. I never see Kishimoto trying to create a realistic manga.



He uses "realism" with his character designs and the weapons they use (most of which are useless).




> Deaths doesn't make a better manga. But absolute lack of deaths or drama makes a shitty manga. I never fear for any character in OP....even the enemies. It's like watching Looney Tunes but even with less violence.





Let's be real here, none of these mangas have any real quality drama. Deaths or otherwisw.


And your bias is shining with that Loony Tunes statement.



> The atmosphere in OP was ruined 300 chapters ago when the readers realized that every single arc of OP was exactly the same with different villians and a larger crew.




Like I said, OP is either for you or it's not. You don't like the structure but it doesn't mean it's bad.


----------



## Maycara (Feb 12, 2008)

Maybe at this rate, this thread well get closed, just like the other one.


----------



## Prowler (Feb 12, 2008)

*I liked One Piece, but now I don't like it. 
I just like the "CP9" part, and all that stuff involving Nico Robin.*


----------



## YoYo (Feb 12, 2008)

Kitty Litter said:


> Like I said, *OP is either for you or it's not*. You don't like the structure but it doesn't mean it's bad.



If everyone thought like that this whole arguement wouldn't exist.


----------



## jinjue (Feb 12, 2008)

competitionbros said:
			
		

> Same with me but I favor One Piece and because of that for some reason I'm branded as "an idiot that enjoys a kid's show" or something to that effect.


I've been called a n00b for liking _One Piece_, myself. Given my personal history within the fandom, that was absolutely hilarious.



			
				vagnard said:
			
		

> Then tell me what happened to all those secondary characters from all the islands Straw hats left?


A variety of things, as some of us have seen in the cover-story mini-arcs.



			
				vagnard said:
			
		

> You are the one who has to get your brain examined if you really consider that shitty retarded manga called One Piece a good story.


Along with the millions of people who helped to propel it to the current number one manga, the third most popular manga of all time and climbing, the manga that holds the record for breaking 100,000,000 units sold the fastest and the manga that holds the record for the most units sold for a single tankouban ever, right?

With that said, I'm not saying that anyone has to prefer one story over the other for any reason. Personal opinion is personal opinion, and sometimes the reasons behind that personal opinion cannot even really be explained. However, blanket statements and gross generalisations on either side are bollocks, especially the stupidly subjective ones such as the one quoted from *vagnard* above.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 12, 2008)

Vagnard-if you bothered to read OP,youd realise that secondary characters get their spot light in cover stories.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 12, 2008)

jinjue said:


> I've been called a n00b for liking _One Piece_, myself. Given my personal history within the fandom, that was absolutely hilarious.
> 
> 
> A variety of things, as some of us have seen in the cover-story mini-arcs.
> ...



Agreed with everything you've said.


----------



## Micku (Feb 12, 2008)

Aethos said:


> At least Oda uses his characters unlike Kishimoto who just ignores all of them in favor of showing Naruto and Sasuke having tons of drama over wanting to have gay sex with each other.
> 
> At least One Piece stays consistantly good and gets even better as time goes on. Naruto is a fucking overrated piece of shit because it went from decent in part 1 to an absolute shit fest version of brokeback mountain in part 2. If that's what you call a deep and "dark" story then you need to get your fucking brain examined.



I sightly disagee. Kishi don't exactly ignores all of his characters in part 2. There aren't really as much depth to them as before, I admit that, but he isn't ignoring them totally. In the beginning of part 2, Sakura had the spotlight and showed how much she grew. I remember back when ppl where complaining about how long her fight was and Kishi to focus on Naruto. 

When Sasuke came into the picture in part 2, the manga's popularity rose again. Sasuke is very popular. I'm assuming he is giving the japanese fans what they want, and it's Sasuke. Last year, Naruto (the manga) done really poor until Kishi focused on Sasuke. It's now like one of top 5. I think it's number 4.  

And part 2 isn't that bad. It does lack what it had in part 1 and what it bestow the future chapters though. Kishi could've done a lot better. He had potiential, but now it seems like he is rushing it. But a opinion is an opinion.



			
				Kitty Litter said:
			
		

> Kishimoto only kills that group, and when he does EVERYONE can see it coming a mile away (IE Sarutobi, Asuma, Jiraiya). It completely sucks out all the drama.



I kind'a agree. 

I agree that if Kishi really wanted to shock people, he will kill important characters unexpectly. Chouji should've died, Neji should've died, and Gaara should've stayed died. That would be unexpected and it would make people paranoid about their favorite characters. 

However, even if people do see death coming, it does not such out the drama at all. It depends on how you write it. Personally, I really liked the Jiraiya death. I thought it was well done expect when he said Naruto was the choosen one. Some people see death coming and still feel very dramatic. Passon of the Christ for example. I personally did not like the movie, but I saw people crying when they saw Jesus getting bad up really badly and died. They knew what was going happen, but they cried anyway. 

It doesn't leave the dramatic feel out of it if the readers could see it coming. Another example would be Rock Lee vs Gaara. We knew Gaara would win, but Lee really showed his skills in the fight. It was mostly everyone favorite fight the last time I checked in some Naruto forums. 

Naruto vs Gaara is another example. We knew Naruto would win, but we did not really know how he would (I just predicted that he would summon). 

As I said, it depends on how you write it that makes it good.


----------



## Sollet (Feb 12, 2008)

WTF if you people dislike Naruto manga that much then GTFO?

Why are you haging around NARUTOfan.com forums? 

Hipocrisy FTL.

(Or is this some kind of a joke thread?)


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 12, 2008)

Im here for the OP section.

and no,this is no joke thread,but a serious one.


----------



## competitionbros (Feb 12, 2008)

Sollet said:


> WTF if you people dislike Naruto manga that much then GTFO?
> 
> Why are you haging around NARUTOfan.com forums?
> 
> ...





This site is not 100 percent Naruto, there are other sections to enjoy.


----------



## Zephos (Feb 12, 2008)

UzuKawa said:


> *I liked One Piece, but now I don't like it.
> I just like the "CP9" part, and all that stuff involving Nico Robin.*



So basically you don't like One Piece, you just liked the part that was the most easy for self conscious teenagers to get into.
You were a fake fan. Nobody misses you.


----------



## Micku (Feb 13, 2008)

KuwabaraTheMan said:


> Oda has killed people, too. Do Bellemere, Tom, Hililuk etc not mean anything to you?
> 
> And somehow I think that a mother sacrificing herself to save her kids is a little more poignant than an old man sacrificing himself when he probably only had a few years left in him, anyway.
> 
> ...



...B-b-b-but Haku died 

To be honest, I knew those characters weren't going to die, but I had a good time reading it (Chouji, Neji, Sasuke, Gaara). I haven't really read a shonen manga yet that has the balls to kill characters off like that. Maybe it's my lack of reading lots of mangas though.

And I haven't really got that far in One Piece yet so I don't know who those characters are. But were they popular? Was it predictable that they were going to die? Were they like you said with Neji, Gaara and Sasuke? I'm not trying to challenge you, but I'm just curious if Oda had the balls to unexpectly kill characters that Kishi does not.

And about the old man hokage's death...meh. Haku's death was more emotional to me. But the mother sacrificing herself to save her kids seems very sad and touching, but how was it written? Like I said before, I never really read One Piece and I'm trying to get into it. So, was it written with depth? Was it written with better complexity than any of the Naruto death scenes?


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 13, 2008)

Sollet said:


> WTF if you people dislike Naruto manga that much then GTFO?
> 
> Why are you haging around NARUTOfan.com forums?
> 
> ...



Maybe it's because we used to be Naruto fans but grew up and started liking other series more than Naruto.

Besides you wanna talk hypocrisy there's far more of that on the NaruTards side what with their "I never read One Piece but I know the story sucks compared to Naruto's." Not to mention other evidence that proves just how hypocritical the Naruto side truly is. At least the One Piece fans have reasons to put down Naruto. The Naruto fans don't even seem to have a reason to put down One Piece. Heck most of them haven't even READ One Piece.

If Naruto fans think they're too cool for school by hating on One Piece then they're sadly mistaken and they are the one's that don't know jack shit.


----------



## Nodonn (Feb 13, 2008)

Why is this topic still open?
Naruto fans are making things up about OP
OP fans are saying Naruto fans opinions don't count because they don't like OP.

I don't see it going anywhere.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 13, 2008)

Nodonn said:


> Why is this topic still open?
> Naruto fans are making things up about OP
> OP fans are saying Naruto fans opinions don't count because they don't like OP.
> 
> I don't see it going anywhere.



No OP fans are saying Naruto fans opinions don't count because they make shit up about One Piece and hate on it despite never having even read it.


----------



## Rattan (Feb 13, 2008)

Naruto has a good story, but I just dont feel like they make good use of their characters. They introduce so many, yet so few are really put to use. We have several decent characters with known abilities that can be used, yet they only play bit parts if anything other than a 'Yo, lookit me im in this chapter!'
OP manages the large cast issue very well, even giving secondary characters importnt for that arc good screen time, and the growing Strawhat crew their own time to shine each. Where a solo action isn't possible, team-ups are used.

Don't get me wrong, Naruto has a great story. Thing is though it just seems to fall short of what it could be with the cast it has. You have a large group of shinobi working as a team and only 2-3 would have a significant part to play. With the current arc they bring in Team 8, yet it just seems like they are only going to be there for show without any combat to show off their skills. If they do show off anything its probably just gonna be a 1 panel deal.
Same thing with Team 10. So much more could've been done with Ino and Chouji. Yet even the end with the 'grand' unveiling of the Rasenshuriken, it just seemed so...meh.


----------



## Loki (Feb 13, 2008)

I like both One Piece as well as naruto, both mangas are very good .


----------



## cloudsymph (Feb 13, 2008)

ok i've just been recently reading op so i will go revise my answer from before.

last time i said OP>naruto, which i deduced from reviews and others posts, well that sticks.  op>naruto by far everything that most people say about op (the good stuff anyways) is true, so OP>naruto.  but then again naruto ain't that great of a manga anyways,  there is much more out there


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Feb 13, 2008)

vagnard said:


> You are the one who has to get your brain examined if you really consider that shitty retarded manga called One Piece a good story.



  



vagnard said:


> I agree... but I still like Bleach a bit more than One Piece. Even when both of them are shitty mangas.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 13, 2008)

Nodonn-its not that we dont think Naruto fans opinions count if they dont LIKE One Piece,we just think they dont count if they say they HATE it,but have never READ it.

A person going (and there has been this case in the other thread) "I read both,I think Naruto is better,but I stil like OP" is something I can live with.

Not such things as "You are the one who has to get your brain examined if you really consider that shitty retarded manga called One Piece a good story.",when OP is curently the number 1 selling manga in Japan (has been for quite a while) and all time 3th best selling.Heck,even the Japaneese like it more---


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Feb 13, 2008)

Lobolover said:


> Nodonn-its not that we dont think Naruto fans opinions count of the dont LIKE One Piece,we just think they dont count if they say they HATE it,but have never READ it.
> 
> A person going (and there has been this case in the other thread) "I read both,I think Naruto is better,but I stil like OP" is something I can live with.
> 
> Not such things as "You are the one who has to get your brain examined if you really consider that shitty retarded manga called One Piece a good story.",when OP is curently the number 1 selling manga in Japan (has been for quite a while) and all time 3th best selling.Heck,even the Japaneese like it more---



Exactly. Thats why the quotes i made above is a perfect example of that.

Its lolworth.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 13, 2008)

The fact that most people who started with Naruto first think that One Piece is superior, and that they are on the One Piece side is a good piece of evidence as to why "OP > Naruto"


----------



## Evil (Feb 13, 2008)

I've read both, and they are about the same. I don't understand why people think One Piece is better, since it's pretty formulamatic; Meet Some new People > Suprise Twist > Boogery Crying > Nakama > Luffy kicks ass.


----------



## * DARK LORD * (Feb 13, 2008)

sworder said:


> The only cool guy in OP was Rob Lucci and Oda killed him



you are right


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Feb 13, 2008)

Aethos said:


> The fact that most people who started with Naruto first think that One Piece is superior, and that they are on the One Piece side is a good piece of evidence as to why "OP > Naruto"



And i can say that i am one of them for sure. *Raises hand*

I have only been following OP for 2 months, Naruto for 3 1/2 years so i dont look at myself as a fanboy of OP. 

I just simply think OP is better than Naruto where one of the reasons is part 2 that has made an bad impression on me.

Effectively making a once for me, one of my favourites, into barely a shadow of what it once was.


----------



## Unrivaled (Feb 13, 2008)

vagnard said:


> What about Haku, Zabuza, Sound 3, Sound 5, Sandaime, Hayate, Asuma, Akatsuki members, Chiyo, Jiraiya?.
> 
> All of them died on screen.
> 
> ...



I have been saying this for the longest but I keep getting excuses.


			
				Vagnard said:
			
		

> *It's always the same: Luffy and his crew come to a new island... they meet an evil pirate or marine with some random evil fruit. His crew take down the enemy's crew and Luffy takes all the glory at the end making his "nakama" look like idiots.*
> 
> You are the one who has to get your brain examined if you really *consider that shitty retarded manga called One Piece a good story.*



Glad I ain't the only one reading One Piece.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 13, 2008)

Unrivaled said:


> I have been saying this for the longest but I keep getting excuses.
> 
> 
> Glad I ain't the only one reading One Piece.



Unrivaled just shut up and go crawl back under your rock of shame.


----------



## iander (Feb 13, 2008)

Micku said:


> And I haven't really got that far in One Piece yet so I don't know who those characters are. But were they popular? Was it predictable that they were going to die? Were they like you said with Neji, Gaara and Sasuke? I'm not trying to challenge you, but I'm just curious if Oda had the balls to unexpectly kill characters that Kishi does not.
> 
> And about the old man hokage's death...meh. Haku's death was more emotional to me. But the mother sacrificing herself to save her kids seems very sad and touching, but how was it written? Like I said before, I never really read One Piece and I'm trying to get into it. So, was it written with depth? Was it written with better complexity than any of the Naruto death scenes?



Well as far as bellemere goes I think it lost much of its emotion because her kids were not in direct danger when she supposedly sacrificed herself.  Her kids and her would have been fine if she had kept her mouth shut but no, she couldnt say she wasnt a mother, which is totally retarded.  She would rather condemn her adopted children to have no parental figure and Nami to slavery.  Would have been better if it was a Sophie's Choice kind of thing but no it was  because she couldnt tell a lie. And it doesnt take much to introduce a character, you knew was already dead, in a flashback for a chapter and kill her off.

Haku's death was unexpected for me, Zabuza's was 10x as emotional than Bellemere's death.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Feb 13, 2008)

Unrivaled said:


> I have been saying this for the longest but I keep getting excuses.
> 
> 
> Glad I ain't the only one reading One Piece.



So you are agreeing on that OP is shitty and retarded but still you think its better than Naruto?

Something doesnt make sense here


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 13, 2008)

Kweck said:


> So you are agreeing on that OP is shitty and retarded but still you think its better than Naruto?
> 
> Something doesnt make sense here



Unrivaled's just a troll. Ignore him.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Feb 13, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Unrivaled's just a troll. Ignore him.



I know. I was being sarcastic, but thnx anyway


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 13, 2008)

But hey that should make Vagnard proud. That the only person who agree's with him is the OBD and One Piece sections number one most hated troll.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Feb 13, 2008)

Aethos said:


> But hey that should make Vagnard proud. That the only person who agree's with him is the OBD and One Piece sections number one most hated troll.



Yarr.

You/We get proved further right aswell bye some of the latest posts


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Feb 13, 2008)

iander said:


> Haku's death was unexpected for me, Zabuza's was 10x as emotional than Bellemere's death.



Yes 400 chapters ago when Naruto was still enjoyable.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 13, 2008)

and the funny thing is that Haku and Zabuza's deaths were the only TRUE emotional and unexpected deaths the Naruto series ever had.


----------



## mystictapion (Feb 13, 2008)

gear 2 > 4 tails

XD


----------



## Unrivaled (Feb 13, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Unrivaled just shut up and go crawl back under your rock of shame.



Um...that's what you would want, shut the truth up. I got a better idea, why don't you and your avatar crawl under there instead.



			
				Aethos said:
			
		

> Unrivaled's just a troll. Ignore him.



Your just a One Piece cheerleader, Ignore who?



			
				Aethos said:
			
		

> But hey that should make Vagnard proud. That the only person who agree's with him is the *OBD and One Piece sections number one most hated troll.*



I am the most hated because I am Unrivaled, the most successful poster here. Let's get something straight, You being a male shouldn't be jealous, that's a FEMALE trait, what you mad because your posts sells dimes and my posts push weight? Respect your fellow members, that should be it, Aethos what you Eat don't make Unrivaled SH**T!



			
				Kweck said:
			
		

> So you are agreeing on that OP is shitty and retarded but still you think its better than Naruto?
> 
> Something doesnt make sense here



Yeah it's your lack of comprehension. 
I said I like One Piece better than Naruto but the STORIES are all in the same boat, they all suck (including Bleach).



			
				Aethos said:
			
		

> and the funny thing is that Haku and Zabuza's deaths were the only TRUE emotional and unexpected deaths the Naruto series ever had.



What's the big obsession over EMOTIONAL drama death crap? What emotional death has One Piece had? Oh excuse me....A SHIP..You cried over a ship...The Going Merry, you need to get out more.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 13, 2008)

Unrivaled said:


> Um...that's what you would want, shut the truth up. I got a better idea, why don't you and your avatar crawl under there instead.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Whatever you say Phenomenol. Go back to wanking over DBZ. It's obvious that when it comes to One Piece you know jack shit about it.


----------



## Unrivaled (Feb 13, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Whatever you say Phenomenol. Go back to wanking over DBZ. It's obvious that when it comes to One Piece you know jack shit about it.



Trolling/Flamebaiting...CHECK!
Keep proving me right.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Feb 13, 2008)

Unrivaled said:


> Yeah it's your lack of comprehension.
> I said I like One Piece better than Naruto but the STORIES are all in the same boat, they all suck (including Bleach).
> .



YEAH i lack comprehension.

Seriously L2R what i post before you make comments like that.

I said i was being sarcastic in a post AFTER.


----------



## jinjue (Feb 13, 2008)

Kweck said:
			
		

> vagnard said:
> 
> 
> 
> > You are the one who has to get your brain examined if you really consider that shitty retarded manga called One Piece a good story.


I forgot to mention this before, but I cannot help but to wonder if *vagnard* realises that Kishimoto himself admitted to being a big fan of _One Piece_. Does that mean that Kishimoto needs to get his "brain examined" for liking "that shitty retarded manga" too?

Also, *Unrivaled*, I wouldn't be bringing gender into this as if it matters if I were you. Need I refer you back to the now-locked OP vs. Naruto thread in the _One Piece_ sub-forum?

Oh, never mind. It's not like you actually _read _anything that anyone else posts anyway. pfft.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Feb 13, 2008)

jinjue said:


> I forgot to mention this before, but I cannot help but to wonder if *vagnard* realises that Kishimoto himself admitted to being a big fan of _One Piece_. Does that mean that Kishimoto needs to get his "brain examined" for liking "that shitty retarded manga" too?
> 
> Also, *Unrivaled*, I wouldn't be bringing gender into this as if it matters if I were you. Need I refer you back to the now-locked OP vs. Naruto thread in the _One Piece_ sub-forum?
> 
> Oh, never mind. It's not like you actually _read _anything that anyone else posts anyway. pfft.



Going bye that incredible logic yes he would be


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 13, 2008)

High five,jinjue!What a briliant point,no sarcasm intended!


----------



## pppp (Feb 13, 2008)

I like both....
OP is slightly better imo because you often laugh your ass off....but again I enjoy both


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 13, 2008)

Unrivaled said:


> Trolling/Flamebaiting...CHECK!
> Keep proving me right.



seems to me you're the one that doesn't know what trolling or flamebaiting is. Unrivaled you're only proving your own stupidity.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 13, 2008)

Aethos-even if your right,lets not overdo it and make this thread close up like the other one.Lets all just ignore his posts-I mean,the guy worships Cell,the thing that ruined android arc in DBZ and made it into Freeza v. 2.


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Feb 13, 2008)

If they're gonna lock this thread then they might as well lock the entire Library.


----------



## Agmaster (Feb 13, 2008)

Why is this man made travesty still alive?


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 13, 2008)

Agmaster said:


> Why is this man made travesty still alive?



Because it's better than all the Uchiha fapping threads that are in this section of the forum.


----------



## Unrivaled (Feb 13, 2008)

jinjue said:


> Also, *Unrivaled*, I wouldn't be bringing gender into this as if it matters if I were you. Need I refer you back to the now-locked OP vs. Naruto thread in the _One Piece_ sub-forum?
> 
> Oh, never mind. It's not like you actually _read _anything that anyone else posts anyway. pfft.



I will bring gender up and whatever the heck else I want because none of you have made me look like a liar yet!
It's a shame Vagnard had to come in here and reiterate what I have been saying about your oh so precious One Piece.
One Piece (like the rest of the two heavy hitters) has no plot it's story is really repetitive!



			
				Aethos said:
			
		

> High five,jinjue!!



Don't you think that's kinda hard to do? when all ten of your fingers are holding Oda's ball sack and all you know!?:amazed



			
				Aethos said:
			
		

> seems to me you're the one that doesn't know what trolling or flamebaiting is. Unrivaled you're only proving your own stupidity.



Sigh, quit recycling what I say, oh wait that's expected from you...When are you going to post up a decent argument?


----------



## Agmaster (Feb 13, 2008)

Can I get a quickslide of Unrivaled vs. Aethos 'points'?  I don't need anyone elses, just the latest will do.


----------



## Unrivaled (Feb 13, 2008)

Aethos has no points, thats the thing...


----------



## Agmaster (Feb 13, 2008)

Until you list yours, neither do you.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 13, 2008)

Unrivaled-your just a liar.If you provoke someone again and again,you just flap out the recent nerve leakage and not the pages on pages of the things before.


----------



## Agmaster (Feb 13, 2008)

Lobo, I got this.  I'm playing mediator/arbiter.  I'm not throwing out insults, or statements of facts in an insulting manner.  I'm just here to compare the latest two peoples' findings.


----------



## Maycara (Feb 13, 2008)

This thread is going to get close just like the other one.  why can't people play nice? IMO Naruto is better then OP, and must of the OP fans dont care, because I dont spout out  shit that isn't true. *shurgs* but then again argueing over the internet is quite a silly thing if you think about it.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 13, 2008)

Well yeah Minzara. Obviously this thread would go well if the ignorant and uninformed Naruto fans didn't come in here and spout garbage, but you know they do it because it boosts their egos or they get off on it or something.


----------



## iander (Feb 13, 2008)

I actually enjoy Uchiha fap threads more than the garbage that comes from this thread .


----------



## Micku (Feb 13, 2008)

Rattan said:


> Don't get me wrong, Naruto has a great story. Thing is though it just seems to fall short of what it could be with the cast it has. You have a large group of shinobi working as a team and only 2-3 would have a significant part to play. With the current arc they bring in Team 8, yet it just seems like they are only going to be there for show without any combat to show off their skills. If they do show off anything its probably just gonna be a 1 panel deal.



I agree. Naruto don't use their characters as it should. In part 2, they are just there, standing around. The side characters don't have their own spotlight fight anymore to test out their skills. It's one of the main reasons why I think part 2 isn't as good as Part 1. Kishi had Team Gai in the Recuse Gaara Arc, and he didn't really do anything with them. Shikamaru was the main person in the Immortal Arc, but Chouji and Ino were a bit useless. Now we have Team 8, which it don't seem like they will get any important spotlight. Compare to the use of characters in part 1, it seems Kishi is getting lazy, rushing, or just lost interest. It's a shame though, the side characters had so much potienal and would contribute a lot to the story. 

In part 2, you rarely even get to see a side character fighting his/her own fight. It's all about Naruto/Sakura/Kakashi and Sasuke now. Shikamaru was the only person that really had his spotlight fight. Like I said, it's a shame that the side characters are being neglected. 



			
				iander said:
			
		

> Well as far as bellemere goes I think it lost much of its emotion because her kids were not in direct danger when she supposedly sacrificed herself. Her kids and her would have been fine if she had kept her mouth shut but no, she couldnt say she wasnt a mother, which is totally retarded. She would rather condemn her adopted children to have no parental figure and Nami to slavery. Would have been better if it was a Sophie's Choice kind of thing but no it was because she couldnt tell a lie. And it doesnt take much to introduce a character, you knew was already dead, in a flashback for a chapter and kill her off.
> 
> Haku's death was unexpected for me, Zabuza's was 10x as emotional than Bellemere's death.



Oh...*shrugs* I need to read/watch it for myself I guess. The way you make it sound, it does sound like the 3rd hokage's death was better than her death. Two thoughts came to mind when I read your description of bellemere.

The first thought was OP artwork style and tone with Bellemere's death. I'm thinking that it's not sad and serious as any of the Naruto's good guy deaths. Even though she accepted death, I imagine the tone to be more happy or nonchalant than it should be. That's why I have to read it myself to see if I'm wrong.  

The second thought which really don't have anything to do with Naruto and OP at all. It's Kenshin...


*Spoiler*: __ 



 Kaoru's fake death was awesome, really awesome. Better than any of the Naruto's fake death, that's for sure. If the death wasn't fake, it would've been so sad. I felt pity towards Kenshin when he thought Kaoru died. It was so sad. 




Anyway, Haku and Zabuza's death were really good. It set the tone that nobody is truely evil and people fought for a special person, even though he or she is not the good guy. 



			
				StrawHat4Life said:
			
		

> Yes 400 chapters ago when Naruto was still enjoyable.



Naruto is still enjoyable now. It just it's not reaching a lot of people's expectation and it isn't reaching it's potienal. Part 2 started off decent, but it could've been better though. Then the whole Sai/Sasuke Arc thing was a big downer. The main complains about it was the pace I think, but everyone got hyped over Sasuke. 

The Immortal Arc had so much potienal. I remember a lot of people in the forums were really looking forward to see Shikamaru fight. They were expecting the fights that we saw in part 1. We didn't get that, but we got Asuma's death (he wasn't an important character though). People were predicting that he won't die, but he did. To make it short, the Immortal Arc just had a very bad ending and bad using of characters at the end. 

The current arc is ok to me. I don't know what to call the last few arcs though. But ever since Sasuke came into the picture, I think the manga is doing a lot better in sales. 

I personally think that Kishi still could have done better and make Sasuke a little less godly, but meh. 



			
				Aethos said:
			
		

> and the funny thing is that Haku and Zabuza's deaths were the only TRUE emotional and unexpected deaths the Naruto series ever had.



You are probably right about the unexpected deaths, but it was not the only true emotional death. There are very few deaths that really matter in the Naruto world anyway. I personally thought that Jiraiya's death was well done. I loved his last thoughts and how he choose to die because of his beliefs, but I hated the whole "Naruto is the choosen one" thing. I can't really think of any other death that was really emotional other than the fake deaths. Neji and Chouji were well done. 

Kimimaro's death was decent, but it could've been better. Even though it's not as emotional as the other deaths, I found his fighting spirt and his will to continue on to please Orochimaru were good. It reminded of Haku, but less epic.

But as someone said before, a emotional death doesn't mean everything. DBZ had tons of emotional deaths, and I still consider Haku's death better than anything DBZ had to offer. Naruto part 1 had a better story than DBZ had to offer. DBZ was entertaining though ^.^


----------



## Supa Swag (Feb 13, 2008)

Micku said:


> The first thought was OP artwork style and tone with Bellemere's death. I'm thinking that it's not sad and serious as any of the Naruto's good guy deaths. Even though she accepted death, I imagine the tone to be more happy or nonchalant than it should be. That's why I have to read it myself to see if I'm wrong.




The tone wasn't really that happy considering she got shot in the face in front her adopted children.

But yeah, it's best to read it for yourself to see how it is.


----------



## Dark World Lightning (Feb 13, 2008)

I'm starting to think that people are intentionally trying to flamebait this thread so the mods will shut it down--because it's making the people who mindlessly defend Naruto look bad.

If it gets shut down because of 'tard screeching, I say we start another one.


----------



## jazz189 (Feb 14, 2008)

why I like one piece better than naruto
Is not something I can explain with words so I'll just show you why
in 20 minutes, you'll learn more about One Piece from this video than you'll learn from wikipedia
[YOUTUBE]http://youtube.com/watch?v=svQlrEvaZic[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]http://youtube.com/watch?v=Swls_HLzAps&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Feb 14, 2008)

^ ^
Reps 

That was epic.


----------



## Hanauta (Feb 15, 2008)

Registered just to post this:


----------



## souljah88 (Feb 15, 2008)

hanouta...??naruto naruto naruto pwns OP...epic fight


----------



## souljah88 (Feb 15, 2008)

tictactoc,people dont hate naruto here....i dont at least. i support him,and he surely beats OP!


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 15, 2008)

that may be the reaosn both of you got a red rep bar.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 15, 2008)

souljah88 said:


> hanouta...??naruto naruto naruto pwns OP...epic fight



Luffy pushed an entire city block of buildings apart with his hands during Water 7. Naruto characters would piss their pants going up against anyone from One Piece. Especially since One Piece characters have the speed and power advantages.


----------



## うさぎ♥~ (Feb 15, 2008)

I prefer Naruto over OP. The Naruto Manga is what got me into mangas in general and I have branched off from it to check out a few others. Don't even ask me if I've read or seen OP, my answer to the both of them is YES. I DID give OP a chance and I just didn't get into it, not that OP sucks or anything, just my taste in manga is different.

I still pretty much like Shoujo above all because I live for Romance haha.... so if anyone wants to reply back to me and argue with me, you won't succeed, because I don't see why I should have to defend my opinion. Thank you for even reading this.

I'm going to buy the OP game though, to start an anime Wii-Games collection haha.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 15, 2008)

x_Naoki_x said:


> I prefer Naruto over OP. The Naruto Manga is what got me into mangas in general and I have branched off from it to check out a few others. Don't even ask me if I've read or seen OP, my answer to the both of them is YES. I DID give OP a chance and I just didn't get into it, not that OP sucks or anything, just my taste in manga is different.
> 
> I still pretty much like Shoujo above all because I live for Romance haha.... so if anyone wants to reply back to me and argue with me, you won't succeed, because I don't see why I should have to defend my opinion. Thank you for even reading this.
> 
> I'm going to buy the OP game though, to start an anime Wii-Games collection haha.



Thank you for being sensible and everything. It's nice to know that there are some Naruto fans that can be sensible, not ingorant, and can make the Naruto fans side actually look good. I applaud you.

People like Vagnard and Unrivaled could learn a thing or two from you.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 15, 2008)

thing is,Mihawk keeps saying Unrivaled is an OP fanboy.Which makes me wonder.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 15, 2008)

Lobolover said:


> thing is,Mihawk keeps saying Unrivaled is an OP fanboy.Which makes me wonder.



That's because Unrivaled is Phenomenol's dupe but nobody does anything about it.


----------



## Karmaxx (Feb 15, 2008)

I watch Naruto way more then One Piece and actually I hardly ever watch One Piece but I must admit One Piece has something to it I saw a recent episode on Cartoon Network and the whole Sky Land they went from a little boat to bigger boat and more crew members the show is like your actually sailing through a anime but with Naruto its more like seeing characters grow up and develop. Thats my opinion I really don't think any anime is better then another each are made for different people.


----------



## うさぎ♥~ (Feb 15, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Thank you for being sensible and everything. It's nice to know that there are some Naruto fans that can be sensible, not ingorant, and can make the Naruto fans side actually look good. I applaud you.
> 
> People like Vagnard and Unrivaled could learn a thing or two from you.


 
Thank you Aethos, one thing I am keeping an eye out for in OP is hoping Nami and Luffy will end up together, now I understand the whole friendship thing in the story of OP and it's refreshing to see a series so heavily based on that but.... c'mon... I'm a girl... I wanna see some hook ups. xD I don't follow Bleach but I would hope that Ichigo would get with Rukia. I don't want to start a paring war btw!!!

Just when it comes to mangas the very first thing that draws me in is the male lead and a um.... what word can I use... "potential" mate? XD Right now I'm hoping for Setsuna to get with Marina >.> (00).

Sorry for going off topic.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 15, 2008)

x_Naoki_x said:


> Thank you Aethos, one thing I am keeping an eye out for in OP is hoping Nami and Luffy will end up together, now I understand the whole friendship thing in the story of OP and it's refreshing to see a series so heavily based on that but.... c'mon... I'm a girl... I wanna see some hook ups. xD I don't follow Bleach but I would hope that Ichigo would get with Rukia. I don't want to start a paring war btw!!!
> 
> Just when it comes to mangas the very first thing that draws me in is the male lead and a um.... what word can I use... "potential" mate? XD Right now I'm hoping for Setsuna to get with Marina >.> (00).
> 
> Sorry for going off topic.



Nah don't worry about it. If I heavily followed pairings in One Piece Luffy x Nami would probably be the one and only one... Maybe anyways but there could be more. But all and all I'm glad there's no romance in One Piece. It means no fandom pairing wars and after being in the Naruto one's... well I'm glad to have a break from pairing debacles when it comes to One Piece.


----------



## Random Nobody (Feb 15, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Nah don't worry about it. If I heavily followed pairings in One Piece Luffy x Nami would probably be the one and only one... Maybe anyways but there could be more. But all and all I'm glad there's no romance in One Piece. It means no fandom pairing wars and after being in the Naruto one's... well I'm glad to have a break from pairing debacles when it comes to One Piece.



Agreed, Pairing Wars are fail.

Oh and I prefer One Piece over Naruto.  Or at least Part 2 Naruto, I still think Part 1 is as good as OP.


----------



## Capacity (Feb 15, 2008)

jazz189 said:


> why I like one piece better than naruto
> Is not something I can explain with words so I'll just show you why
> in 20 minutes, you'll learn more about One Piece from this video than you'll learn from wikipedia
> [YOUTUBE]http://youtube.com/watch?v=svQlrEvaZic[/YOUTUBE]
> ...


Man i wish those had subs 

I've always loved OP


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 15, 2008)

Random Nobody said:


> Agreed, Pairing Wars are fail.
> 
> Oh and I prefer One Piece over Naruto.  Or at least Part 2 Naruto, I still think Part 1 is as good as OP.



yeah I'd say part one was as good as One Piece though I still felt One Piece was superior. Part two though is nothing more than a bad fanfic.


----------



## Loden (Feb 15, 2008)

im a fan of one piece.


----------



## Shodai (Feb 15, 2008)

Hm, this thread has convinced me to read OP lol.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 15, 2008)

Shodai said:


> Hm, this thread has convinced me to read OP lol.



Yes read One Piece and witness it's manly passion.


----------



## jazz189 (Feb 16, 2008)

the reason why the video I posted wasn't subbed was because fansubbers apparently refuse to sub it, because if you're a true fan of One Piece you'd know what they were saying without the need for subs.

But to apologize to those who don't understand it here's another video this time of my favorite One Piece movie-Baron no Omatsuri

[YOUTUBE]http://youtube.com/watch?v=XzFHM60Coxw[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]http://youtube.com/watch?v=FqPBcHiwDAY[/YOUTUBE]

and my favorite short

*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]http://youtube.com/watch?v=QRBXPYZWJtQ[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## ??? (Feb 16, 2008)

I like both One Piece and Naruto.


----------



## Gillian Seed (Feb 16, 2008)

One Piece >>>>>>> Naruto. nuff said


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 16, 2008)

Shodai said:


> Hm, this thread has convinced me to read OP lol.



Im sure everyones here happy to be of asistance.


----------



## Maycara (Feb 16, 2008)

guess whos back 

guess whos back....

guess whos back  guess whos back  guess whos back  guess whos back 

The thread is back once again...tell a friend...



Really were not getting anywhere..that much we either making part A hate OP/Naruto more..or like it more, lol


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 17, 2008)

LAWL ZONG did u see teh dub last nite?!?!!?!?1 Kabuto liek totaly ripped Naruto's heart out!!11 Tat totaly proves tat Naruto iz teh best anime evar n every other anime sux in comparison!!1111 Especially One Piece cause they never badass liek tat LOL!!!!!111111


----------



## Tobirama (Feb 17, 2008)

I like One Piece the same reason I like Gai; both are about honour and standing up for your buddies. Seriously, One Piece is the dog's bollocks, it is faaaaaaaaantastic. I thought Naruto was good, but watching One Piece, Naruto doesn't even compare.


----------



## Han Solo (Feb 17, 2008)

Part one Naruto > One Piece.

But since then Naruto has gone to the shitters. Anyway OP has the greatest ever Shonen villan; Crocodile. That's kinda hard to top.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 17, 2008)

Crimson Magician said:


> Part one Naruto > One Piece.
> 
> But since then Naruto has gone to the shitters. Anyway OP has the greatest ever Shonen villan; Crocodile. That's kinda hard to top.



There are better villains in One Piece than just Crocodile...

Oh and that brings up a good point. At least One Piece's villains don't consist of a Michael Jackson pedo rapist, and an overhyped organization of S class criminals that should be feared but instead get OHKOed by a bunch of inexperienced, prebuescent kids that shouldn't even be close to their strength considering they're only chuunin.


----------



## Han Solo (Feb 17, 2008)

Aethos said:


> There are better villains in One Piece than just Crocodile...



Blasphemy. How can you even think that? Crocodile is the epitome of what it means to be an evil, manipulative, bastard of a villain. He's fucking awesome. He turned a whole _nation_ on itself, all for his sick and twisted plans. How can you not love that?



Aethos said:


> Oh and that brings up a good point. At least One Piece's villains don't consist of a Michael Jackson pedo rapist, and an overhyped organization of S class criminals that should be feared but instead get OHKOed by a bunch of inexperienced, prebuescent kids that shouldn't even be close to their strength considering they're only chuunin.



. 

Fair enough.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 17, 2008)

Crimson Magician said:


> Blasphemy. How can you even think that? Crocodile is the epitome of what it means to be an evil, manipulative, bastard of a villain. He's fucking awesome. He turned a whole _nation_ on itself, all for his sick and twisted plans. How can you not love that?



Well crocodile is better than any Naruto villain as I said above.

But he's not the beat all to end all. There are plenty villains in One Piece that are just as bad.


----------



## Han Solo (Feb 17, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Well crocodile is better than any Naruto villain as I said above.
> 
> But he's not the beat all to end all. There are plenty villains in One Piece that are just as bad.



Your not actually gonna convince me otherwise, ya know. Though certainly Enel was pretty awesome, and Mihawk's just badass, though, to me, Mihawk seems more of an antagonist than a villain.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 17, 2008)

CP9 I'd say was a good group of villains and come on Arlong and Bellamy were just as bad.


----------



## Han Solo (Feb 17, 2008)

Aethos said:


> CP9 I'd say was a good group of villains and come on Arlong and Bellamy were just as bad.



I'll agree with everyone you say excpet Bellamy. Sure he was bad, but kinda pissed me off becuase he was annoying.

What can I say. Practically every villain in OP is well done... Hell practically every character in OP is well done.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 17, 2008)

Crimson Magician said:


> I'll agree with everyone you say excpet Bellamy. Sure he was bad, but kinda pissed me off becuase he was annoying.
> 
> What can I say. Practically every villain in OP is well done... Hell practically every character in OP is well done.



well hey you wanted to see Bellamy get his ass kicked. To me that makes him just as good.


----------



## Han Solo (Feb 17, 2008)

Aethos said:


> well hey you wanted to see Bellamy get his ass kicked. To me that makes him just as good.



Luffy punching Bellamy... Seriously one of the best scenes Oda has ever created. It's beyond anything that Kishi has done ayway.


----------



## Toad Hermit (Feb 17, 2008)

Yo, I'm new to onepiece and I'm recently at episode 64 or something when they visit small island ( that dinosaur place ). It has been really great so far but was just wondering if it gets any better later on.

... offtopic


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 17, 2008)

Toad Hermit said:


> Yo, I'm new to onepiece and I'm recently at episode 64 or something when they visit small island ( that dinosaur place ). It has been really great so far but was just wondering if it gets any better later on.
> 
> ... offtopic



Well if you think it's great now then yeah it just keeps getting better and better. Don't worry One Piece won't pull a Naruto part 2 on you.


----------



## Maycara (Feb 17, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Well if you think it's great now then yeah it just keeps getting better and better. Don't worry One Piece won't pull a _*Bleach HM*_  on you.



Sorry fixed it for you. I personally think Naruto Part 2 is better....


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 17, 2008)

Minzara said:


> Sorry fixed it for you. I personally think Naruto Part 2 is better....



In the words of Frank Caliendo as Charles Barkley

That's trrble man... just trrble... You're crazy man. You're out of my five. You're crazy...


----------



## Maycara (Feb 17, 2008)

Aethos said:


> In the words of Frank Caliendo as Charles Barkley
> 
> That's trrble man... just trrble... You're crazy man. You're out of my five. You're crazy...



Oh come on...you already knew I liked it better, lol. "Out of your five?" O.o wtf? lol


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 17, 2008)

Minzara said:


> Oh come on...you already knew I liked it better, lol. "Out of your five?" O.o wtf? lol



You have to hear Frank Caliendo as charles barkley to get it I suppose.

But meh I just can't fathom part 2 being better. I still say you're crazy.


----------



## Maycara (Feb 17, 2008)

Aethos said:


> You have to hear Frank Caliendo as charles barkley to get it I suppose.
> 
> But meh I just can't fathom part 2 being better. I still say you're crazy.



Oh I see...Well considering i've never heard of either of those two...I think frank is a comedian...and Charles sings that stupid Star Wars song.

I just like the humanity factor. And the Irony. Shit I like everything about it. Not one thing has dissapointed me yet, EXCEPT for the current Sasuke VS Itachi if Itachi dies showing nothing else, then I will Scream fuck you Kishi..but I have faith!! ><


----------



## Suzuku (Feb 17, 2008)

Aethos said:


> You have to hear Frank Caliendo as charles barkley to get it I suppose.
> 
> But meh I just can't fathom part 2 being better. I still say you're crazy.


How so                               ?


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 17, 2008)

competitionbros said:


> Jiraiya is a professional ninja



problem with that is theese pages open wery slowly for some people (like me) and cause problems.


----------



## Supa Swag (Feb 17, 2008)

Minzara said:


> and Charles sings that stupid Star Wars song.





Charles Barkley is an NBA legend...turned into an overweight retard who is often hilarious.


----------



## MdB (Feb 17, 2008)

Aethos said:


> You have to hear Frank Caliendo as charles barkley to get it I suppose.
> 
> But meh I just can't fathom part 2 being better. I still say you're crazy.



But it is. Although I hate both, atleast Kishi tries to tell a damn story. HM is a lame COPYPASTA arc of extreme faggotry.


----------



## shyakugaun (Feb 17, 2008)

Oh My God i cant belive people here are actually comparing One Piece to Naruto  -_-. Naruto is a 100xs better than op. Thier bad guys seems like they were made up by a 3 year old. They chnage voice actors ever other season. Luffy is a bigger spammer than naruto. Thier story sucks. Bottom line naruto is way better than op. One Piece is a perfect name cause its just One Piece of Shit.

One peice was good up pass the  smoke guy but anything after that is just pure shit. Especially the sky island crap. Eye hawk me hawk is cool, zolo is cool, the guy with the blades on his hand in ussops home town was cool but everyone else sucks the bick stick


----------



## Maycara (Feb 17, 2008)

Kitty Litter said:


> Charles Barkley is an NBA legend...turned into an overweight retard who is often hilarious.



I dont watch Sports......Its pointless to me....


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 17, 2008)

shyakugaun said:


> Oh My God i cant belive people here are actually comparing One Piece to Naruto  -_-. Naruto is a 100xs better than op. Thier bad guys seems like they were made up by a 3 year old. They chnage voice actors ever other season. Luffy is a bigger spammer than naruto. Thier story sucks. Bottom line naruto is way better than op. One Piece is a perfect name cause its just One Piece of Shit.
> 
> One peice was good up pass the  smoke guy but anything after that is just pure shit. Especially the sky island crap. Eye hawk me hawk is cool, zolo is cool, the guy with the blades on his hand in ussops home town was cool but everyone else sucks the bick stick




Just another case of non-inteligent bashing.

1-OP pwnz Naruto in terms of selling

2-OP has 100 extra chapters of plot

3-I have seen 1000 times more complaints about Naruto's Part II then about OP-and ive only seen people complain about OP in THEESE TWO THREADS.

EDIT-"ZOLO"?Your watching the english dub?the one that cut out 40 episodes worth of material?The one that changed Belleméres death to "being locked in a dungeon",the one that edited out all blood, that inserted stupid puns,that changed backstories,that turned guns into supersoakers...................


----------



## Maycara (Feb 17, 2008)

Lobolover said:


> Just another case of non-inteligent bashing.
> 
> 1-OP pwnz Naruto in terms of selling
> 
> ...



Sadly the dubbed killed OP in america it seems...


----------



## MdB (Feb 17, 2008)

shyakugaun said:


> Oh My God i cant belive people here are actually comparing One Piece to Naruto  -_-. Naruto is a 100xs better than op. Thier bad guys seems like they were made up by a 3 year old. They chnage voice actors ever other season. Luffy is a bigger spammer than naruto. Thier story sucks. Bottom line naruto is way better than op. One Piece is a perfect name cause its just One Piece of Shit.
> 
> One peice was good up pass the  smoke guy but anything after that is just pure shit. Especially the sky island crap. Eye hawk me hawk is cool, zolo is cool, the guy with the blades on his hand in ussops home town was cool but everyone else sucks the bick stick



The fact that you call Zoro ''Zolo'' shows how ignorant and stupid you are.


----------



## Maycara (Feb 17, 2008)

It is still Zolo in the Funi dub? I didn't check it out long enough to figure it out...since Zoro sounded like Piccolo and that was gay....


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 17, 2008)

We should make a notice in the first post:
"4KIDs dub use in arguments is prohibited"


----------



## Maycara (Feb 17, 2008)

Lobolover said:


> We should make a notice in the first post:
> "4KIDs dub use in arguments is prohibited"



Regarding you sig..you should put "most" Naruto fans, cause I am Naruto fan, and I like it better then OP. But I Don't say stupid shit like that...


----------



## shyakugaun (Feb 17, 2008)

in the one piece i watch its zolo not zoro


----------



## Maycara (Feb 17, 2008)

shyakugaun said:


> in the one piece i watch its zolo not zoro



Because you watch the crappy dub...which is edited to hell


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 17, 2008)

shyakugaun said:


> in the one piece i watch its zolo not zoro



hello-the version you watch has lines,backstories,scenes and elements cut and altered to "fit" the junior audience.


40 episodes of material were cut from that one.FORTY EPISODES.

Canon arcs were skiped over and half-asedly writen around.All blood was edited out.

Names were changed,stupid puns and jokes were added 
(NONE of which were in the original version) .

The music was replaced with Rap.

Hell,the dubing company planed to have a character named "Sarquis" be changed to "Carnaby Skeet" for no aparent reason.

Luffy's using BLOOD to defeat crocodile was edited to sweat.

Crocodile didnt impale neither Luffy nor Nico Robin in this dub.

A gun was changed into a crappy hammer toy.

Enels "ordeal" (aka a dead,almost imposible to acomplish) was changed to "IQ" test.

Shandians were changed to "Loftrians".


----------



## MdB (Feb 17, 2008)

shyakugaun said:


> in the one piece i watch its zolo not zoro



GTFO then, ignorant fool.


----------



## Maycara (Feb 17, 2008)

MdB said:


> GTFO then, ignorant fool.



Your going to get this thread closed just like the one in the OP section....><


----------



## Naruto (Feb 17, 2008)

Naruto is better on all fronts but one: Emotional scenes. There are but a few in Naruto, plus no romantic relationship is taken all the way. Kishimoto is, at a lack of a better word, shy.

I just love emotional scenes, and OP is all about emotions. So that alones puts OP in a higher ground for me, because in all fairness it has an epic proportion.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 17, 2008)

What,are you telling me Oda's storyteling and character designs lack behind that of _Kishimoto_?Author or pink and orange jump suits and constant ilusion fights?


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Feb 17, 2008)

shyakugaun said:


> Oh My God i cant belive people here are actually comparing One Piece to Naruto  -_-. Naruto is a 100xs better than op. Thier bad guys seems like they were made up by a 3 year old. They chnage voice actors ever other season. Luffy is a bigger spammer than naruto. Thier story sucks. Bottom line naruto is way better than op. One Piece is a perfect name cause its just One Piece of Shit.
> 
> One peice was good up pass the  smoke guy but anything after that is just pure shit. Especially the sky island crap. Eye hawk me hawk is cool, zolo is cool, the guy with the blades on his hand in ussops home town was cool but everyone else sucks the bick stick



And with posts like this people still do wonder why OP-fans thinks some Naruto-fans have terrible arguments?

Beats me.

And even more lol that you actually posted that after watching the dub which is edited and censored to hell and beyond as mentioned earlier.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 17, 2008)

> Oh My God i cant belive people here are actually comparing One Piece to Naruto -_-. Naruto is a 100xs better than op. Thier bad guys seems like they were made up by a 3 year old. They chnage voice actors ever other season. Luffy is a bigger spammer than naruto. Thier story sucks. Bottom line naruto is way better than op. One Piece is a perfect name cause its just One Piece of Shit.
> 
> One peice was good up pass the smoke guy but anything after that is just pure shit. Especially the sky island crap. Eye hawk me hawk is cool, zolo is cool, the guy with the blades on his hand in ussops home town was cool but everyone else sucks the bick stick



Wow... You are a fucking idiot!


----------



## competitionbros (Feb 17, 2008)

Are people really comparing the dub OP to the sub Naruto?


----------



## Cold (Feb 17, 2008)

Personally I favor Naruto over One Piece.  One Piece is more imaginative, but I'm more interested in Naruto's story.  I could never really get into One Piece like I got into Naruto and Bleach.

EDIT:  The Dub OP is terrible, just like most dubs.  Everyone should know that if you're comparing anime you've got to use the subs.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 17, 2008)

competitionbros said:


> Are people really comparing the dub OP to the sub Naruto?



Of course because Narufags will do anything to prove Naruto's superiority.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 17, 2008)

Aethos-change your post.We dont want this thread locked.


----------



## Supa Swag (Feb 17, 2008)

It's kind of interesting that the Naruto fans calling OP utter shit are mostly Uchiha fans...


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 17, 2008)

> Aethos-change your post.We dont want this thread locked.



Nah because that name rather suits them in my view.


----------



## competitionbros (Feb 17, 2008)

Kitty Litter said:


> It's kind of interesting that the Naruto fans calling OP utter shit are mostly Uchiha fans...





There's not much else to be a fan of in Naruto since 3/5 of the story surrounds the Uchiha which is weird considering the show is called Naruto. But I digress, people that haven't seen most of Naruto shouldn't be allowed to say anything about it and the same goes for One Piece.


----------



## Cold (Feb 17, 2008)

Lobolover said:


> hello-the version you watch has lines,backstories,scenes and elements cut and altered to "fit" the junior audience.
> 
> 
> 40 episodes of material were cut from that one.FORTY EPISODES.
> ...



LMFAO, they're really trying to kill that series over here!  I didn't even know they were allowed to edit it to that degree.  Knowing that 4kids did this much damage to the series, I think I'll start watching the subs more now.  These companies have really mastered the sick art of killing anime.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 17, 2008)

I'm pretty sure if the people that bash One Piece would stop sucking Sasuke's cock or licking his ass for a moment they'd realize how bad Naruto is overall in quality to One Piece and every series besides Bleach.


----------



## Goom (Feb 17, 2008)

I'm a fan of both mangas and I have to say Naruto in part one was tied with one piece.

But once part two of naruto came out One piece beat it by a longshot.

So as of right now OP>Naruto.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 17, 2008)

Aeothos-your a bit biased.I havent realy read Bleach,but both OP fans and Naruto fans agree its prety horrible.Im not saying any opinions but-3 PAGES of swirling dust?


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 17, 2008)

ColdFront said:


> LMFAO, they're really trying to kill that series over here!  I didn't even know they were allowed to edit it to that degree.  Knowing that 4kids did this much damage to the series, I think I'll start watching the subs more now.  These companies have really mastered the sick art of killing anime.



Yeah obviously if you know One Piece by it's dub you shouldn't be judging the series at all because heck if Naruto was in 4kids hands would you want us to judge the Naruto series by the dub?

I mean heck you guys hate it when people judge Naruto by it's dub now and it's practically perfect.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 17, 2008)

Lobolover said:


> Aeothos-your a bit biased.I havent realy read Bleach,but both OP fans and Naruto fans agree its prety horrible.Im not saying any opinions but-3 PAGES of swirling dust?



biased towards what? I think Naruto and Bleach are equally horrirble. I don't prefer Bleach to Naruto cause that would just be plain idiotic. But I'm not going to say that Naruto part 2 is better either cause it sucks as much balls as hueco mundo.

As far as what Minzara said though I was saying he was crazy cause he implied that his post was saying he thought part 2 was better than part 1. You'd have ot be crazy to think that post time skip is better than pre time skip.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 17, 2008)

In apearances-in some rare cases,perhaps.I never liked the old "12 year old protagonist" shite anyway.


----------



## Cold (Feb 17, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Yeah obviously if you know One Piece by it's dub you shouldn't be judging the series at all because heck if Naruto was in 4kids hands would you want us to judge the Naruto series by the dub?
> 
> I mean heck you guys hate it when people judge Naruto by it's dub now and it's practically perfect.



Well, I'll start watching One Piece more.  I thought that the dub just had bad voice actors, but I didn't know they actually tampered with the plot to that degree.

I have been enlightened


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 17, 2008)

Glad we could help.

Also,heres what I think about the fans,who hate op cause of the dub (from "Rime of the ancient mariner")

"And straight the Sun was flecked with bars, 
(Heaven's Mother send us grace!) 
As if through a dungeon-grate he peered, 
With broad and burning face. "


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 17, 2008)

ColdFront said:


> Well, I'll start watching One Piece more.  I thought that the dub just had bad voice actors, but I didn't know they actually tampered with the plot to that degree.
> 
> I have been enlightened



Yeah they pretty much did that with the whole "Hey Usopp had a log pose the whole time despite the fact that he didn't and that they were supposed to meet Laboon the whale at the entrance of the grand line not a damn iceburg." thing

Oh and Grand line sickness which made the 4kids dub skip over Little Garden a plot heavy arc that caused many plot holes for the dub just so 4kids could get to Chopper faster because they believed Chopper would make them money like Pikachu did. So yeah I hope you will read the manga or watch the Japanese version and realize that the One Piece dub isn't One Piece. The funimation dub we have now is more like One Piece than the 4kids dub ever was.

Even if Funi had to keep in some of the 4kids terms for the TV version for consistency. Don't worry though the uncut DVDs will be the perfect One Piece dub and everything.


----------



## Kue (Feb 17, 2008)

I just started to watch One Piece thanks to this thread, and I got to say I actually like it now.  I got interested when the introduction of Zoro came.

I just need to ask, is there any character development in this series? It seems as if they're going to all stay static.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 17, 2008)

I aint gonna spoil the latest chapters,but YOU BET.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 17, 2008)

Lynslayer said:


> I just started to watch One Piece thanks to this thread, and I got to say I actually like it now.  I got interested when the introduction of Zoro came.
> 
> I just need to ask, is there any character development in this series? It seems as if they're going to all stay static.



well outside of the character flashbacks the characters do gain a sense of development. Though it's something you barely notice, but when you do it's astonishing. Especially in regards to Zoro. This is why people will say that One Piece characters have no development.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 17, 2008)

Meh it'd be better to just read One Piece online. Why bother downloading it and havng to resize every picture? So annoying...

Anyways offtopic and a few pages late but if you didn't get the whole frank caliendo as charles barkley thing. This is what I was referring too.


*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byT-FYC7aVQ[/YOUTUBE]




That's it for my off topic banter. Back to the discussion.


----------



## Sasuke_fanboy (Feb 18, 2008)

Kitty Litter said:


> It's kind of interesting that the Naruto fans calling OP utter shit are mostly Uchiha fans...



I'm both an Uchiha and one piece fanboy.

sir Crocodile > all villains in Naruto. Orochi is the only one that comes close. 
sogeking rulz


----------



## Maycara (Feb 18, 2008)

I've never understood the appeal for Croc..I never liked him, as a villian, or character. I prefer Enel, or Lucchi over him by far.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Feb 18, 2008)

Well as Naruto part 2 is atm even Bleach is better imo.

The majority of the match consisting of genjutsu and Sasuke PNJ is downright horrible.

This match could have been so much better if Itachi had showed more skills outside of sharingan and whooped Sasuke a little.

But ofcourse that havent happend as Sasuke is so l33t 

My 2 cents on this.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 18, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Meh it'd be better to just read One Piece online. Why bother downloading it and havng to resize every picture? So annoying...
> 
> Anyways offtopic and a few pages late but if you didn't get the whole frank caliendo as charles barkley thing. This is what I was referring too.
> 
> ...



The link I gave before

Kakuzu answer

view it online,mostly in either big of smaller scans.



Minzara said:


> I've never understood the appeal for Croc..I never liked him, as a villian, or character. I prefer Enel, or Lucchi over him by far.



Exactly.I realy prefer Enel or the CP9.


----------



## Sasuke_fanboy (Feb 18, 2008)

Minzara  said:
			
		

> I've never understood the appeal for Croc..I never liked him, as a villian, or character. I prefer Enel, or Lucchi over him by far.



He's just the complete package. Enel's plans weren't that complex or intresting. CP9 were Spandam's bitches and they didn't have any goals or dreams, they were just slaves for the WG. 

But croc, not only does he have great design, the way he set up his group was cool. He turned a country on itself( while pretending to be a hero of said country), he betrayed the WG, he is the only villain so far that put Luffy at the brink of death 3 times and his laugh is just badass. He's just that good, no other villain can compare to sir Crocodile.


----------



## Naruto (Feb 18, 2008)

Lobolover said:


> What,are you telling me Oda's storyteling and character designs lack behind that of _Kishimoto_?*Author or pink and orange jump suits* and constant ilusion fights?



Arabasta's arc *alone* has more ridiculous idiotic outfits than anything Kishimoto could muster in a lifetime.

Also, Oda is good at portraying tragical events, emotional scenes, and charismatic lead characters. As for his "storytelling", give me a break. Oda hasn't really created any plot twists or worked on character development. Crew members take turns at resolving scars in their past and people get stronger just because. The complete lack of a universal logic in the world of OP doubles as not only an easy method to create another thread in the journey of the strawhats, but also as an infinity of possibilities regarding pretty much anything. Shit happens all the time and its unpredictable because *it rarely makes sense*.

So, as I said before, hell fucking no. I love OP, but Kishimoto is a better writer than Oda. Oda just likes his manga more and has more plans for it than Kishimoto does, which, in the end, gives OP the edge as a series, but not more credit to Oda as a storyteller.


----------



## Mullet_Power (Feb 18, 2008)

Naruto said:


> As for his "storytelling", give me a break. Oda hasn't really created any plot twists or worked on character development. Crew members take turns at resolving scars in their past and people get stronger just because. The complete lack of a universal logic in the world of OP doubles as not only an easy method to create another thread in the journey of the strawhats, but also as an infinity of possibilities regarding pretty much anything. Shit happens all the time and its unpredictable because *it rarely makes sense*.



I'll have a go:
*
Character development outside of past resolution:*
Usopp leaving crew, and returning after recognizing Luffy as being right, and recognizing him as the captain.

Luffy realizing the burden of being a dependable captain by fighting Usopp and letting him go

Chopper's constant struggle of proving he is a man that the strawhats can depend on (protecting the ship, fighting Gedatsu and Kumadori)

*recent manga spoiler*

*Spoiler*: __ 



Zoro giving up his dream for others, despite at the start him telling Luffy that he would kill him if he got in his way of being the strongest swordsman




*Getting stronger for a reason:*
Luffy and Sanji develop heat techniques after getting owned by the ice using Aokiji

Zoro training to cut from any stance after getting stuck in Mr. 3's wax

Zoro cutting steel because he was unable to cut out of the prison croc threw the crew in.

Also Luffy and Zorro have to get stronger to fulfill there dreams.


Lastly I would like for you to give examples of surprises that didn't make sense. Every surprise we have seen so far has made sense, and there are very few plotholes. Oda seems to be very thorough with his storytelling and seems to have a lot more planned out then most mangaka (as you pointed out). 

I don't think that Oda is necessarily a better story teller (as I think part 1 Naruto is on the same level as One Piece) but the fact he seems to not care any more makes Naruto's story worse.


----------



## Naruto (Feb 18, 2008)

Mullet_Power said:


> I'll have a go:
> 
> Character development outside of past resolution:
> Usopp leaving crew, and returning after recognizing Luffy as being right, and recognizing him as the captain.
> ...



Usopp's character development has thus far been the best. He is also my second favorite character, the first being luffy.

You pointed out reasons why the characters would *want* to get stronger, though they get these buffs under pressure and under no training whatsoever. What the fuck was that CP9 arc "development" about? Again, I loved every bit of it as a viewer, but you have to understand it makes no sense for someone to get his ass severely kicked and ending up beating them _the very next day_ without any actual reason for them to suddenly be able to pull it out.

As for the "surprises that do not make sense", which isn't the best way to put it, I mean everything. The reason the possibilities are endless is because his world does not seem to obey any laws whatsoever. A tidal wave that shoots out towards the sky? I can't stress this enough: I *enjoy* every bit of the series, including this! But you cannot tell me this is better story writing than Kishimoto's. Oda could very well be on acid and OP wouldn't differ from its usual MO at all.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 18, 2008)

Naruto said:


> Arabasta's arc *alone* has more ridiculous idiotic outfits than anything Kishimoto could muster in a lifetime.
> 
> Also, Oda is good at portraying tragical events, emotional scenes, and charismatic lead characters. As for his "storytelling", give me a break. Oda hasn't really created any plot twists or worked on character development.



Hello-ORIENTAL clothes?And the others-Whats so ridiculous on a cape?

Have you even READ past Davy Back fight?
*Spoiler*: __ 



In Water 7,theres a damn lot fo development,followed into EL.Then,you cant tell me Garp being revealed as Luffy's grandpa and Dragon as his father or the sudden apearance of Kuma on Thriller Bark are NOT plot twists.

And what about Zoro willing to sacrifice his life to Kuma,so that he would let Luffy go past and fullfill his reams?When this was the man that said he would leave Luffy,if he couldnt fullfill his OWN dream?


----------



## Naruto (Feb 18, 2008)

Bonclay's clothing. I made my case and theres nothing fucking Oriental about that.

And yes, I fucking read past the davy back fight. Dropping someone in the manga and claiming "it's luffy's grandpa" isn't a plot twist. A plot twist of such kind is when you develop on all characters involved gradually and upon the revelation of such fact, things fall into place and it makes you go "Ahhh...thats why *x thing* happened". Luffy's grandpa and dad were introduced in a soap opera manner.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 18, 2008)

Naruto said:


> Arabasta's arc *alone* has more ridiculous idiotic outfits than anything Kishimoto could muster in a lifetime.
> 
> Also, Oda is good at portraying tragical events, emotional scenes, and charismatic lead characters. As for his "storytelling", give me a break. Oda hasn't really created any plot twists or worked on character development. Crew members take turns at resolving scars in their past and people get stronger just because. The complete lack of a universal logic in the world of OP doubles as not only an easy method to create another thread in the journey of the strawhats, but also as an infinity of possibilities regarding pretty much anything. Shit happens all the time and its unpredictable because *it rarely makes sense*.
> 
> So, as I said before, hell fucking no. I love OP, but Kishimoto is a better writer than Oda. Oda just likes his manga more and has more plans for it than Kishimoto does, which, in the end, gives OP the edge as a series, but not more credit to Oda as a storyteller.



Yeah because Naruto crying over Sasuke because Sasuke won't fuck him in the ass is truly great storytelling. Give me a break...

And I'm sure Dragon and Garp weren't great plot twists. I'm sure Shanks vs Whitebeard and Ace vs Blackbeard weren't great plot twists. I'm sure the whole thing with Robin in Water 7/Eines Lobby wasn't a great plot twist.

What do you call character development? How much the characters cry and angst over their tragic pasts or whatever the way Sasuke and most every other Naruto character do? There is far more to character development than just that, but I'm thinking those that think Naruto has great storytelling and great character development wouldn't be able to understand that.

and as for the outfits. Well I guess in a world of ninja where you're supposed to be stealthy and in the shadows an orange jumpsuit, snow coats, green spandex suits and vests, and wearing your ninja headband all over the place proclaiming to everyone that you meet even outside of the hidden village that you're a ninja is truly being stealthy and ninja like. Even if real ninja's from Japanese legend wore civilian clothes. You still wouldn't know they were ninja until they killed you. With Naruto ninja you can point them out from miles away. I'm thinking that people in the Narutoverse must be really stupid if a Naruto ninja can infiltrate a different country while wearing their completely OBVIOUS ninja headband.

Plus I find the One Piece outfits to be far more stylish.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 18, 2008)

Naruto-a plot twist is something unexpected.as a naruto fan, that can be a litle bit hard for you to understand,but a REAL plot twist does not reveal itself 200 chapters before.

We totaly didnt get why Dragon saved Luffy in Loguetown,did we?

and whats so "fine" on standart gray green suits?


----------



## Dark World Lightning (Feb 18, 2008)

> Shit happens all the time and its unpredictable because *it rarely makes sense*.



You mean like the whole idea of there being a civilization of talking funny animals, a world of death that we never get to see, two established religions that pop up and are discarded as the plot demands, and genetic abilities that evolve according to your emotions?

The difference between One Piece and Naruto is that One Piece's weirdness are hyped as being part of the world they live in while Naruto's weirdness exists just to advance the plot. In OP, the idea of there being islands of walking, talking fishpeople and giants drives the setting--in Naruto Frog Mountain is just... there.

You are right about the plot twists in Naruto; they tend to be much more exciting and better built to. Dragon being Luffy's dad? Um, WTF?


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 18, 2008)

Dark World Lightning said:


> You are right about the plot twists in Naruto; they tend to be much more exciting and better built to. Dragon being Luffy's dad? Um, WTF?



Was that sarcasm?


----------



## ZE (Feb 18, 2008)

Perona solos, both character quality wise and strength wise. 
But seriously, there is no way in hell Naruto is a better manga, Oda always delivers, before the start of an arc in any manga it is normal for the reader to imagine how that particularly arc will advance and what type of battles (in shounen that’s the most important) he expects given the enemies the heroes will have to fight, and in every single arc Oda manages to surpass his fans expectations, he always delivers more than we could ever hope for, triler bark is a great example, everyone thought that arc was going to be a boring one, and what happened????? Giants fighting and breaking everything apart, incredible fights, including the most badass fight of the manga, Zoro Vs Ryuuma. 

While Naruto is the opposite, normally the arcs have someone potential in them, they all seem to be great but Kishi always finds a way to ruin everything, be it by killing the main enemy in a lame way or by creating lame characters like Sai.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 18, 2008)

ZE said:


> While Naruto is the opposite, normally the arcs have someone potential in them, they all seem to be great but Kishi always finds a way to ruin everything, be it by killing the main enemy in a lame way or by creating lame characters like Sai.



QFT Indeed...


----------



## competitionbros (Feb 18, 2008)

Could someone define what they mean by "character develop"? One Piece and Naruto have it but One Piece has it more (or I should say for more people) yet I keep hearing it doesn't have any.


----------



## Ryan (Feb 18, 2008)

competitionbros said:


> Could someone define what they mean by "character develop"? One Piece and Naruto have it but One Piece has it more (or I should say for more people) yet I keep hearing it doesn't have any.


 
Lol, it has nothing to do with amount of characters. It just means that the characters personality, feelings etc.. changes a lot on the story. Luffy always loves/protect his comrade, Zoro is always lazy, Sanji is always.. well looking for girls, Ussop is always scared etc. And yes, OP doesn't have one, maybe for a few occassions but it's rarely done in OP.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 18, 2008)

Yeah it's funny how Naruto fans think that character development is equal to how much a character angsts. Especially when they use Sasuke as an example of prime character development.  ::roles eyes::


----------



## Naruto (Feb 18, 2008)

Notice how rather than retorting with meaningful, developed arguments, some of the people involved decided to dis Naruto. Since I'm too big of a fan of *both* series, I'm not getting involved in a dissing fest. However, if you think Naruto's story lacks consistency and background but in turn find that in one piece, you are either a hypocrite or simply biased. I think a feasible argument about the positive and negative points in both series is *completely* possible. The problem is the tendency fans have to overlook the flaws of whatever they're supporting and put down the opposing faction on all fronts.

This isn't going to be a productive discussion. One Piece has great things going for it, which I already stated and developed on if only a little. It *is* one of my favorite anime series and definitely my favorite shonen series. But Oda is *not* superior to Kishimoto in terms of story writing. They could in theory complement eachother, though Kishimoto would have more to offer than the reverse. Oda simply found a winning formula for his manga, and unlike Kishimoto, he loves his project and intends to carry on with it for a long time. Kishimoto has openly admitted he has other things he wants to explore.

One Piece: Charismatic lead characters, dramatic scenes, tragic pasts, symbolical resolves. That's what it has going for it, unless you count longevity and the potential to be even longer.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 18, 2008)

Naruto said:


> Notice how rather than retorting with meaningful, developed arguments, some of the people involved decided to dis Naruto. Since I'm too big of a fan of *both* series, I'm not getting involved in a dissing fest. However, if you think Naruto's story lacks consistency and background but in turn find that in one piece, you are either a hypocrite or simply biased. I think a feasible argument about the positive and negative points in both series is *completely* possible. The problem is the tendency fans have to overlook the flaws of whatever they're supporting and put down the opposing faction on all fronts.
> 
> This isn't going to be a productive discussion. One Piece has great things going for it, which I already stated and developed on if only a little. It *is* one of my favorite anime series and definitely my favorite shonen series. But Oda is *not* superior to Kishimoto in terms of story writing. They could in theory complement eachother, though Kishimoto would have more to offer than the reverse. Oda simply found a winning formula for his manga, and unlike Kishimoto, he loves his project and intends to carry on with it for a long time. Kishimoto has openly admitted he has other things he wants to explore.
> 
> One Piece: Charismatic lead characters, dramatic scenes, tragic pasts, symbolical resolves. That's what it has going for it, unless you count longevity and the potential to be even longer.



Um yes Oda is superior to Kishimoto in terms of storywriting. Screw the fact that Kishimoto is rushing to get Naruto done. The fact of the matter is that it's still shitty writing no matter how you look at it. Oda's writing is consistant and gets better with every arc.


----------



## competitionbros (Feb 18, 2008)

ρяίv?тε said:


> Lol, it has nothing to do with amount of characters. It just means that the characters personality, feelings etc.. changes a lot on the story. Luffy always loves/protect his comrade, Zoro is always lazy, Sanji is always.. well looking for girls, Ussop is always scared etc. And yes, OP doesn't have one, maybe for a few occassions but it's rarely done in OP.




Luffy= The man he admired lost his arm to save him and made a promise to return his hat once he became a great pirate........pretty much explains why Luffy wants to be a great pirate. And Shanks put comrades above all and since Luffy admired him.......yak yak.

Zoro= That lazy argument makes no sense, why is Shikamaru lazy? It's just how they are, there's no back story needed for being lazy.

Sanji= He likes women, so what? Why is Jiraiya always looking for women? Again, no need for back story.

Usopp= He's a coward, period. He's brave when it calls for it but again a back story is not needed for this trait.


----------



## Ryan (Feb 18, 2008)

competitionbros said:


> Luffy= The man he admired lost his arm to save him and made a promise to return his hat once he became a great pirate........pretty much explains why Luffy wants to be a great pirate. And Shanks put comrades above all and since Luffy admired him.......yak yak.
> 
> Zoro= That lazy argument makes no sense, why is Shikamaru lazy? It's just how they are, there's no back story needed for being lazy.
> 
> ...


 
I'm talking about changes on thier behavior, personality, feelings etc. They didn't change a bit, even Usopp who became a brave comedian at some point returned to be the old retarded Usopp - not that I am complaining.

Naruto, changed a lot, he stopped been goofy in battle, more creative, etc.

Sasuke changed a lot also, he's more serious, confidence on his own power, done some bad things such as going to Orochimaru, etc.

Sakura, from a useless girl to a girl whom Tsunade consider as her soccesser.

kakashi (trains - more powerful now), Shikamaru (was too lazy), etc.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 18, 2008)

ρяίvàтε said:


> I'm talking about changes on thier behavior, personality, feelings etc. They didn't change a bit, even Usopp who became a brave comedian at some point returned to be the old retarded Usopp - not that I am complaining.
> 
> Naruto, changed a lot, he stopped been goofy in battle, more creative, etc.
> 
> ...



Yeah and Naruto became a pussy who cries over Sasuke all the time.

Sasuke is still the same character except with more Mary Sue power.

and Sakura even though she got her Tsunade upgrade is still fucking useless. 

So no they didn't really change at all.


----------



## Ryan (Feb 18, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Yeah and Naruto became a pussy who cries over Sasuke all the time.
> 
> Sasuke is still the same character except with more Mary Sue power.
> 
> ...


 
That's your opinion, thanks.


----------



## Doom85 (Feb 18, 2008)

masamune1 said:


> There is one, Core, reason as to why One Pice is generally considered (as far as I can tell) to be more popular than Naruto (in my opinion). Not the only reason, but the Core one.
> 
> This reason, everyone, is the difference in Themes.
> 
> ...



Okay, I'm quoting a fairly old post, but dang, I'm in 100% agreement with this. Well done.

Anyway, One Piece vs. Naruto? Meh, FMA's anime AND manga takes them both down. 

Okay, seriously, I'm more of a Naruto fan (though the anime version of Shippuden needs to pick up the pace, especially considering Shippuden episode 26 showed how awesome the fights COULD be), but One Piece rocks too. I think they're kinda apples and oranges.

I do think some people are taking this argument a little too personally though. I think the Harry Potter series has plenty of faults to it (one-dimensional antagonists, and no, I do not consider Snape an antagonist, book one and two were too slowly paced, the final book reeked of "don't kill off the major kids" censorship, that lame epilogue, too many adverbs even for a kids' series, etc.) but I don't freak out and insult those who think it's the best book series ever. Now, if they called Eragon/Eldest the best book series ever, there'd be some flaming coming their way. 

Ultimately, it's all subjective. If Person A doesn't like The Godfather, Person B should act their age (assuming they're a "mature" age) and not belittle them for it. That is all.


----------



## competitionbros (Feb 18, 2008)

ρяίv?тε said:


> I'm talking about changes on thier behavior, personality, feelings etc. They didn't change a bit, even Usopp who became a brave comedian at some point returned to be the old retarded Usopp - not that I am complaining.
> 
> Naruto, changed a lot, he stopped been goofy in battle, more creative, etc.
> 
> ...





That's not development, he was goofy in battles back then cuz he was just facing other genin mainly but now he's facing fully fledged ninja, if he acts goofy he dies.


Sasuke has always been serious, always confident in his power, he only wasn't like that around Naruto. He's just his old self times 3.

Sakura I will give you and ONLY Sakura.


----------



## Supa Swag (Feb 18, 2008)

ρяίv?тε said:


> Naruto, changed a lot, he stopped been goofy in battle, more creative, etc.



*reads Naruto/Kakuzu*





> Sasuke changed a lot also, he's more serious, confidence on his own power, done some bad things such as going to Orochimaru, etc.



Sasuke's always been serious. He's always confident in his abilities until he meets someone that beats his ass.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 18, 2008)

ρяίv?тε said:


> That's your opinion, thanks.



No sorry to say that's fact. My opinion would be if I said that Naruto became homo for Sasuke, Sasuke's just a homo period, and Sakura is still a useless Sasuke loving slut ho.


----------



## Maycara (Feb 18, 2008)

Aethos said:


> No sorry to say that's fact. My opinion would be if I said that Naruto became homo for Sasuke, Sasuke's just a homo period, and Sakura is still a useless Sasuke loving slut ho.



Aethos...there you go again. Its not really fact. I agree with the guy even if he is going about it the wrong way... you know I am noticing a trend...you OP fans are starting to flame more then the Naruto ones. *shakes his head* Losing respect in you guys, what happened with your intellgent bouts with me?


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 18, 2008)

Minzara said:


> Aethos...there you go again. Its not really fact. I agree with the guy even if he is going about it the wrong way... you know I am noticing a trend...you OP fans are starting to flame more then the Naruto ones. *shakes his head* Losing respect in you guys, what happened with your intellgent bouts with me?



Meh well if you want to imagine that the Naruto series has this "imaginary character development" then go right ahead. As for the intelligent bouts since when was there really a reason to have nay in this thread?


----------



## Ryan (Feb 18, 2008)

competitionbros said:


> That's not development, he was goofy in battles back then cuz he was just facing other genin mainly but now he's facing fully fledged ninja, if he acts goofy he dies.


 
That means he changed, he actually changed a lot, he was basically a loser who couldn't even do a bunshin and is now a real Kage bunshin master. Remember the first bell test, and the second bell test? He is a new Naruto.



> Sasuke has always been serious, always confident in his power, he only wasn't like that around Naruto. He's just his old self times 3.


 
Yeah, rememeber when he first met Orochimaru and how scared he was? Remember the chidori thing againts Itachi back then? He's more serious, confident and ready to kill Itachi. And, he's one of the strongest characters right now. He changed, alright.


----------



## Supa Swag (Feb 18, 2008)

Naruto said:


> This isn't going to be a productive discussion. One Piece has great things going for it, which I already stated and developed on if only a little. It *is* one of my favorite anime series and definitely my favorite shonen series. But Oda is *not* superior to Kishimoto in terms of story writing.




Taking into account how they handle their series rather than what's is said to the better story, Oda is without a doubt in my mind the better story writer.

OP is primarily an adventure manga. The set up of most arcs is bound to be similar (although that's the case for most series). He also manages to set up effective villains a sense of threat outside the SH's adventure while steadily bringing the SH's into the fray. No one character completely dominates the screen, secondary characters are given their proper screentiem, etc.

Naruto is strongly bound by the characters of Naruto/Sasuke, but it's gotten to the point where other things have suffered outside of them. The other rookies are practically irrelevant, the threat of Akatsuki has been battered due to their constant losses from low experience teenagers and the villages outside of Konoha are useless. The way Naruto is right now, what was the point of creating 5 major villages when one has shown practically NOTHING, one has power weaker than Sound, one got owned by one man, and one has so much potential with their swordsmen and their opposite beliefs of Konoha and have shown strong ninja but hardly get the screentime they should?


----------



## competitionbros (Feb 18, 2008)

ρяίv?тε said:


> That means he changed, he actually changed a lot, he was basically a loser who couldn't even do a bunshin and is now a real Kage bunshin master. Remember the first bell test, and the second bell test? He is a new Naruto.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, rememeber when he first met Orochimaru and how scared he was? Remember the chidori thing againts Itachi back then? He's more serious, confident and ready to kill Itachi. And, he's one of the strongest characters right now. He changed, alright.





No, it was more like he was childish one battle then the next he wasn't. They didn't show how he grew, it wasn't development, it was just a change. And in the beginning he was pratically the same, still going head first against Kakashi.


So what, he was scared at first and then like a chapter later he was fighting head on like he believed he'd win. The chidori against Itachi? The hell does that mean? He thought his chidori would hit, is that not being confident in his power? He hasn't changed a bit, he was always one of the strongest genin and now 2 years later he's one of the strongest ninja. Isn't that how it's supposed to be?

As a kid=strong, confident, serious

As teen=strong, confident, serious........just more so.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 18, 2008)

ρяίvàтε said:


> That means he changed, he actually changed a lot, he was basically a loser who couldn't even do a bunshin and is now a real Kage bunshin master. Remember the first bell test, and the second bell test? He is a new Naruto.
> 
> Yeah, rememeber when he first met Orochimaru and how scared he was? Remember the chidori thing againts Itachi back then? He's more serious, confident and ready to kill Itachi. And, he's one of the strongest characters right now. He changed, alright.



Luffy believed he had the strength to protect his nakama until Aokiji kicked his ass. From here he devised a whole new fighting style in the gears in order to protect his nakama. Not to mention the other straw hats getting stronger in order to face these new and powerful threats that await them in the new world.

Zoro went from the guy who told Luffy that if he got in the way of his dream to commit seppiku. Yet now Zoro is not only Luffy's most loyal companion he's the one who has kept the crew together when they had to make tough decisions. Such as the whole Usopp situation.

Usopp has grown a lot and that alone is very evident throughout the entire course of the series.

Robin has grown from a drifter who didn't care about anyone to finding a family in Luffy and the other straw hats. Do you think she would have risked her own life to save any other crew during the whole CP9 situation? I doubt it.

Nami and Chopper have also grown in various ways throughout the story  Nami has become a more confident fighter who's willing to risk her life and Chopper is becoming the pirate he's wanted to be.

Sanji may still chase the girls but he's also grown. He values and cares for the othehr straw hats as companions and friends and would be willing to risk his life for them as well. He especially showed concern for Usopp during Eines Lobby when he gave his speech that there are things that people can and can't do.

The thing is that the straw hats aren't just a crew of pirates. They're comrades, friends, companions, family. They've grown a lot around each other. If you compare how they were on their first appearance each straw hat has indeed developed quite a lot.


----------



## Ryan (Feb 18, 2008)

You guys take things too seriously. All am saying is OP characters changed a bit (before being a part of the crew) and then stoped, it's like they're alwasys gonna be like that. On the other hand, Naruto's characters changes every chapter, just look at Itachi, Tobi, Pein, etc.

For example, in OP most villians are porn villians, while in Naruto there's usually a story that made him one, hope you get what am saying.

PS: I am an OP fan too. XD


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 18, 2008)

ρяίv?тε said:


> You guys take things too seriously. All am saying is OP characters changed a bit (before being a part of the crew) and then stoped,



Ah just like every Naruto character that isn't Sasuke. Except Sasuke hasn't changed much either except now he has more Mary Sue Deus Ex Machina SHaringan H4X Power. Yup that's a whole lot of development right there.



ρяίv?тε said:


> For example, in OP most villians are porn villians, while in Naruto there's usually a story that made him one, hope you get what am saying.
> 
> PS: I am an OP fan too. XD



Excuse me... Porn villains? GTFO.... GET THE FUCK OUT!

And really what's the story behind every Naruto villain? Oh yeah it's basically set up in a way for Naruto to go "he's just like me." Because every fucking villain besides Orochimaru (who is more like Sasuke) is JUST... LIKE... HIM! I'm sorry but Pein's tragic past RUINED his character not to mention his shitty motives for world domination. Ooooh like that hasn't been done over a billion times.


----------



## Ryan (Feb 18, 2008)

Lol, am talking about "character development", who cares about Pein's character!


----------



## Ennoea (Feb 18, 2008)

Personally Enies Lobby> All Naruto arcs.

Tho right now I think Naruto is more interesting, Thriller Bark wasn't such a great arc, it felt like filler.


----------



## KLoWn (Feb 18, 2008)

Lawlz this shit still going on? Impressive 
Thought i'd would've been locked ages ago due to flaming or something.


CrimemasterGogo said:


> Thriller Bark wasn't such a great arc, it felt like filler.


If you're saying that it was total garbage then im with ya


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 18, 2008)

ρяίvàтε said:


> Lol, am talking about "character development", who cares about Pein's character!



..............WUT?

and Thriller Bark has been great. How has it been filler at all?


----------



## Maycara (Feb 18, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Meh well if you want to imagine that the Naruto series has this "imaginary character development" then go right ahead. As for the intelligent bouts since when was there really a reason to have nay in this thread?



Lol, it has it, but *shurgs*. Sasuke character did devlope, he was becoming "different" Then he devolped again when he met Itachi, sure it was in the wrong same direction as before, but thats human nature for you. Naruto has devloped, he was lonely at the start, and had no one, now he does. Also like I said the whole Sasuke chasing, is related to Hokage, Naruto believes he cant become Hokage without getting Sasuke back.

Gaara has devloped from a maniac killer to a caring loving Kazekage. The list goes on....


I've had intelligent bouts in this thread..not my fault you all just dropped to the bashers level....


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 18, 2008)

Minzara said:


> Lol, it has it, but *shurgs*. Sasuke character did devlope, he was becoming "different" Then he devolped again when he met Itachi, sure it was in the wrong same direction as before, but thats human nature for you. Naruto has devloped, he was lonely at the start, and had no one, now he does. Also like I said the whole Sasuke chasing, is related to Hokage, Naruto believes he cant become Hokage without getting Sasuke back.
> 
> Gaara has devloped from a maniac killer to a caring loving Kazekage. The list goes on....
> 
> ...



Does it look that way now?

If the One Piece fans have dropped to the levels of the bashers there's probably a reason behind it and you should know considering the other thread.

As for Gaara that was a WTF moment right there. Most Naruto "plot twists" or "character development" are. Like SHikamaru beating Hidan in a week for instance, but at least that beats Naruto learning nothing over the time skip and crying over every little thing.

Naruto hardly even cares about being hokage anymore. He just wants his brother to come back home and Sasuke is the same character in that he doesn't give a shit about anyone other than himself.


----------



## Maycara (Feb 18, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Does it look that way now?
> 
> If the One Piece fans have dropped to the levels of the bashers there's probably a reason behind it and you should know considering the other thread.


Doesn't jutisfy it still. No reason to dropped to there level, doesn't make you any better then them, Just my opinion....



> As for Gaara that was a WTF moment right there. Most Naruto "plot twists" or "character development" are. Like SHikamaru beating Hidan in a week for instance, but at least that beats Naruto learning nothing over the time skip and crying over every little thing.


That really wasn't a WTF moment...by the end of the Naruto/Gaara fight, we saw Gaara starting to change after his defeat, and more during the Kimimaru fight. so it wasn't a wtf. 
Shikamaru simply out smarted Hidan, and remember Hidan is my fav char. But Hidan is stupid. Maybe it was wrong for Kishi to put a extremely smart person to go against a retard? I dont think so. Cause it shows Hidan had alot of power, and with that power if your not smart enough on how to use it, you will die to someone far weaker.
Naruto learned that double rasengan stuff. Ya he didnt learn alot, but in actuallity thats Naruto character, he doesnt learn alot of Jutsus. He did go up in overall physical strength though.



> Naruto hardly even cares about being hokage anymore. He just wants his brother to come back home and Sasuke is the same character in that he doesn't give a shit about anyone other than himself.


Like I said, and will keep Saying Naruto chasing Sasuke IS chasing Hokage. Naruto feels he CANNOT be Hokage if he cannot even protect his best friend. Which I completely understand. 
Sasuke did Devlop, then he undelped back to the same. Thats human nature, Humans are like roller coasters, they dont usually keep going forward, same stay stagnet, others go forward then backwards.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 18, 2008)

Minzara said:


> Doesn't jutisfy it still. No reason to dropped to there level, doesn't make you any better then them, Just my opinion....
> 
> 
> That really wasn't a WTF moment...by the end of the Naruto/Gaara fight, we saw Gaara starting to change after his defeat, and more during the Kimimaru fight. so it wasn't a wtf.
> ...



No it's just more a WTF moment that Gaara became Kazekage.

Shikamaru won directly through plot no jutsu. He had insane amounts of chakra he didn't have the week before, he magically was able to get Hidan to his family's private grounds and conveiently had a way of disposing Hidan ready to go. Say what you want about One Piece's fights but at least they aren't THAT stupid. Not to mention Naruto's OHKO on Kakuzu and Sasuke's super magical escape from a point blank nuclear blast didn't help either.

and yeah outside of bigger rasengan and more Kyuubi tails what was the point of even have Naruto go out to train with Jiraiya? It was all in all pointless. Not to mention the arcs in Part 2 have culminated into

Naruto cries over Gaara

and when that was finished

Naruto cries over Sasuke again and again and again.

Meanwhile Sasuke teams up with the worst characters ever and goes off on his crusade to do the same thing he's been trying to do for 400 chapters only to make said anticipated fight the most anti-climatic piece of shit in the whole series besides Jiraiya's pathetic defeat against Pein. I mean the only thing more pathetic than the Sasuke vs Itachi fight right now would be to have Konan fight and try to give people paper cuts only to lose by having a bucket of water dropped on her the first second of the fight.

And not only is Pein the worst villain ever. He plays second fiddle to another fucking Uchiha. Just WTF man. As if emo boy and his blind older brother wasn't enough.


----------



## Maycara (Feb 18, 2008)

Aethos said:


> No it's just more a WTF moment that Gaara became Kazekage.


How so? Every hated Naruto just the same as Gaara, but Gaara worked his ass off, as said by Naruto, to get that postion. People will forgive you for your sins if you make a effort. Especially in Gaara's case


> Shikamaru won directly through plot no jutsu. He had insane amounts of chakra he didn't have the week before, he magically was able to get Hidan to his family's private grounds and conveiently had a way of disposing Hidan ready to go. Say what you want about One Piece's fights but at least they aren't THAT stupid. Not to mention Naruto's OHKO on Kakuzu and Sasuke's super magical escape from a point blank nuclear blast didn't help either.


Shikmaru had been far into that fight, the first time around, and used the shadow jutsu much more. And he DID do a week of training, and Prepation, might of been only a week, but in a week Naruto can get hella stronger, so can Sasuke, why cant Shikamaru get a "little" stronger? He set it up before hand, remember he had prep time.... I never said OP fights where stupid...lol
Naruto just simply did something stupid, which Kakuzu didnt expect, with his 100 years of experience, he expected Naruto to be smarter....
The Sasuke one I cant argue cause I havent anazlyed that fight enough, and really hate both characters..so fuck them both...



> and yeah outside of bigger rasengan and more Kyuubi tails what was the point of even have Naruto go out to train with Jiraiya? It was all in all pointless. Not to mention the arcs in Part 2 have culminated into


Maybe it took that long just to perfect those jutsus? REMEMBER it took the fourth 3 years to learn rasengan...


> Naruto cries over Gaara
> 
> and when that was finished
> 
> Naruto cries over Sasuke again and again and again.


Just the type of person Naruto is. He is very caring, and wants to do everything to protect his friends. I have no problem with him crying, it shows he is human, and losing friends can do that to you.


> Meanwhile Sasuke teams up with the worst characters ever and goes off on his crusade to do the same thing he's been trying to do for 400 chapters only to make said anticipated fight the most anti-climatic piece of shit in the whole series


This fight isn't over, and I wont pass judgement on it yet, because I dont jump to conclusions, ive liked it so far, BUT i will be angry if Itachi shows nothing else, then I will join you on this one...



> besides Jiraiya's pathetic defeat against Pein. I mean the only thing more pathetic than the Sasuke vs Itachi fight right now would be to have Konan fight and try to give people paper cuts only to lose by having a bucket of water dropped on her the first second of the fight.


I thought that defeat was handle VERY well. Jiraya almost beat Pein, which is quite impressive.



> And not only is Pein the worst villain ever. He plays second fiddle to another fucking Uchiha. Just WTF man. As if emo boy and his blind older brother wasn't enough.


I LOVE Pein, he is my second fav Akatsuki member. I like his story, and character.
Not a fan of Madara, but even though I hate Sasuke, I feel all these characters are written well. And Nesscary...


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 18, 2008)

Minzara said:


> How so? Every hated Naruto just the same as Gaara, but Gaara worked his ass off, as said by Naruto, to get that postion. People will forgive you for your sins if you make a effort. Especially in Gaara's case



Because it shouldn't have taken 3 years or less for Gaara to reach Kage status. That's just plain unrealistic if we go by what remains of the ranking system. Unless you're saying they just made Gaara kazekage out of charity or some other bullshit.



Minzara said:


> Shikmaru had been far into that fight, the first time around, and used the shadow jutsu much more. And he DID do a week of training, and Prepation, might of been only a week, but in a week Naruto can get hella stronger, so can Sasuke, why cant Shikamaru get a "little" stronger? He set it up before hand, remember he had prep time.... I never said OP fights where stupid...lol
> Naruto just simply did something stupid, which Kakuzu didnt expect, with his 100 years of experience, he expected Naruto to be smarter....
> The Sasuke one I cant argue cause I havent anazlyed that fight enough, and really hate both characters..so fuck them both...



Because it was a week. It's expected of Naruto due to the Kyuubi and Sasuke because of his Super Uchiha powers of deus ex machina's and sharingan h4x. For someone like shikamaru it should have taken far more than a week. Especially to prepare everything the way it was planned out. There's just no fucking way Shikamaru knew where they'd be a week later and have the chakra to not only use the shadow bind jutsu a couple dozen times but also to take Hidan to his family's grounds and toss him down an already prepared hole. No fucking way he could have planned that in a week. That's just ridiculous. 




Minzara said:


> Maybe it took that long just to perfect those jutsus? REMEMBER it took the fourth 3 years to learn rasengan...
> 
> Just the type of person Naruto is. He is very caring, and wants to do everything to protect his friends. I have no problem with him crying, it shows he is human, and losing friends can do that to you.
> 
> This fight isn't over, and I wont pass judgement on it yet, because I dont jump to conclusions, ive liked it so far, BUT i will be angry if Itachi shows nothing else, then I will join you on this one...



And yet even then Rasengan wasn't really perfected. He just made a bigger one. He should have already known that elemental crap and everything when he came back.

I doubt that. Most people would have had their balls drop by now. Naruto crying over some brotherhood shit that only he believes exists is just plain pathetic. He's more obsessed with Sasuke than Part 1 Sakura and that's just sad. I would have expected all the crying to be from Sakura. Not Naruto.

And as far as the Sasuke vs Itachi fight goes. I was sold on it being shitty when every chapter turned out to be a genjutsu. I'm sure we're not out of that yet either.




Minzara said:


> I thought that defeat was handle VERY well. Jiraya almost beat Pein, which is quite impressive.
> 
> 
> I LOVE Pein, he is my second fav Akatsuki member. I like his story, and character.
> Not a fan of Madara, but even though I hate Sasuke, I feel all these characters are written well. And Nesscary...



Except Jiraiya lost in the most laughably pathetic way possible. Jiraiya a guy who should have gone out with a bang instead went out with a whimper in one of the most drawn out fights of the series.

And I don't like Pein he's just another angsty orphan kid turned into a psychopath. Like that hasn't been done before in the series. It just killed any expectations I had for Pein andn I'm sure when Naruto fights him it's going to be one big "he's just like me" sob fest.

And the Uchiha's are bland but if they're written well it's because of Kishimoto's constant fapping to them.


----------



## Ryan (Feb 18, 2008)

Aethos is a really hardcore OP fan, he scares me.


----------



## Sengoku (Feb 18, 2008)

yeah i was a little disappointed with jiraiya's defeat/death
but to not dog on naruto.. arlong's defeat was really fast.
imo, instead of being drawn out, it was really quick and unexpected.


----------



## Dark World Lightning (Feb 18, 2008)

> Oda simply found a winning formula for his manga, and unlike Kishimoto, he loves his project and intends to carry on with it for a long time. Kishimoto has openly admitted he has other things he wants to explore.



Naruto, you made a thread not too long ago stating that people should stop complaining about how disappointed they are in the manga.

But if the mangaka isn't all that interested in his own series then why shouldn't people complain about the quality? Seriously, love of your product is one of the things any writer MUST have, from professional screenwriter to low-grade fanfiction writers; if you don't have it then it makes you a hack.

If you're not interested in finishing or continuing your product, then here's a suggestion: don't. Just stop, please. Hand it off to someone else as soon as your contract expires.


----------



## Maycara (Feb 19, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Because it shouldn't have taken 3 years or less for Gaara to reach Kage status. That's just plain unrealistic if we go by what remains of the ranking system. Unless you're saying they just made Gaara kazekage out of charity or some other bullshit.


Itachi became Chuunin by 11..
Minato became fourth at a very young age.
It was already said that Gaara was way above genin. Too mee its not unrealistic at all. 3 years is alot of time, alot of time for stuff to change. In 3 years your can almost get a bachlerors degree in college....





> Because it was a week. It's expected of Naruto due to the Kyuubi and Sasuke because of his Super Uchiha powers of deus ex machina's and sharingan h4x. For someone like shikamaru it should have taken far more than a week. Especially to prepare everything the way it was planned out. There's just no fucking way Shikamaru knew where they'd be a week later and have the chakra to not only use the shadow bind jutsu a couple dozen times but also to take Hidan to his family's grounds and toss him down an already prepared hole. No fucking way he could have planned that in a week. That's just ridiculous.


How do you know? Shikamaru has never really trained before, he was always being lazy, he probably trained his ass of that week, and you also got to consider he is smart, extremely smart so he can find a way to figure out how to get power fast. Its not really, Shikamaru can plan IN BATTLE 200 steps ahead, he had a week prep time to do that, and Train...doesnt seem unrealistic at all to me.





> And yet even then Rasengan wasn't really perfected. He just made a bigger one. He should have already known that elemental crap and everything when he came back.


 We don't truly know how long it took him to train to aquire, even with his HAX bushin training it still took him awhile to master FRS...



> I doubt that. Most people would have had their balls drop by now. Naruto crying over some brotherhood shit that only he believes exists is just plain pathetic. He's more obsessed with Sasuke than Part 1 Sakura and that's just sad. I would have expected all the crying to be from Sakura. Not Naruto.


Its what he holds dear to him. I completely understand him, thats HIS character. I myslef aint like that, but Naruto is, and I respect him for being so loyal to friends, even to the point of stupidity.



> And as far as the Sasuke vs Itachi fight goes. I was sold on it being shitty when every chapter turned out to be a genjutsu. I'm sure we're not out of that yet either.


WELL NO SHIT...that is Itachi main attack..Genjutsu...OFCOURSE HE IS GOING TO USE IT. It would be like Sasori not using puppets...or Deidara not using clay...just fucking stupid....




> Except Jiraiya lost in the most laughably pathetic way possible. Jiraiya a guy who should have gone out with a bang instead went out with a whimper in one of the most drawn out fights of the series.


I wouldn't say that, He almost beat Pein..killed Summoning Pein..find out a TON of info on Pein...and passed on that technique to Naruto. I think he went out with a bang...not a Deidara bang, but a bang none the less.



> And I don't like Pein he's just another angsty orphan kid turned into a psychopath. Like that hasn't been done before in the series. It just killed any expectations I had for Pein andn I'm sure when Naruto fights him it's going to be one big "he's just like me" sob fest.


Ya, but thats also a theme in OP too, bad pasts. So I dont want to hear that. As for Peins character I like it. I love god concepts, characters that think there gods, and can back it up...



> And the Uchiha's are bland but if they're written well it's because of Kishimoto's constant fapping to them.


They are all written well, I dont like them because Sasuke is a jackass, always was. Madara/Tobi not a fan of the whole gay mask. And Itachi is cool, i've especially liked him more in recent chapters.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 19, 2008)

Naruto-THIS is the oficial definition of a "plot twist"

"A plot twist is a change ("twist") in the direction or expected outcome of the plot of a film, television series, video game, novel, comic or other fictional work. It is a common practice in narration used to keep the interest of an audience, usually surprising them with a revelation. Some "twists" are foreshadowed and can thus be predicted by many viewers, _*whereas others are a complete shock*_."


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 19, 2008)

Minzara said:


> Itachi became Chuunin by 11..
> Minato became fourth at a very young age.
> It was already said that Gaara was way above genin. Too mee its not unrealistic at all. 3 years is alot of time, alot of time for stuff to change. In 3 years your can almost get a bachlerors degree in college....



And yet Itachi and Minato were portrayed as geniuses that come about very rarely. Same with Kakashi. Gaara is portrayed to be the anti-thesis of Naruto. Even if his abilities are Kage level it should have taken more than 3 years for him to become a Kage. Especially if you compare Gaara to the other three Hokage's. Heck the only reason Tsunade was even considered for the position of Hokage was because of her rank as a sennin and because Jiraiya refused the title, but even Tsunade becoming Hokage is far more realistic than Gaara somehow going from genin to Kazekage in three years.






Minzara said:


> How do you know? Shikamaru has never really trained before, he was always being lazy, he probably trained his ass of that week, and you also got to consider he is smart, extremely smart so he can find a way to figure out how to get power fast. Its not really, Shikamaru can plan IN BATTLE 200 steps ahead, he had a week prep time to do that, and Train...doesnt seem unrealistic at all to me.



Because a week is a truly short amount of time. If it had been a month or two you might have something there, but even if Shikamaru trained his ass off and had prep time it still should have taken more than a week. Especially when you compare Shikamaru's avenger quest to Sasuke's.





Minzara said:


> We don't truly know how long it took him to train to aquire, even with his HAX bushin training it still took him awhile to master FRS...



Even then this was all stuff that Jiraiya should have taught him during the time skip. It's not something Kakashi should be teaching him. It just made Jiraya out to be a bad teacher.




Minzara said:


> Its what he holds dear to him. I completely understand him, thats HIS character. I myslef aint like that, but Naruto is, and I respect him for being so loyal to friends, even to the point of stupidity.
> 
> WELL NO SHIT...that is Itachi main attack..Genjutsu...OFCOURSE HE IS GOING TO USE IT. It would be like Sasori not using puppets...or Deidara not using clay...just fucking stupid....



That's true for any shounen character though, but they don't take it to extremes the way Naruto does. After all did Luffy cry over Robin all the time during Eines Lobby? No he said he was going to save her and that was that. Heck even Ichigo pulls it off better in regards to his friends especially in regards to Rukia and Orihime in their respective arcs.

And yeah all that genjutsu is still a waste of time even if it's what Itachi does most. I'm not the only one saying that either. It's just being thrown aroudn like a plot device to the point where entire chapters never happened because it was all a genjutsu. That's bullshit. That's just stalling.





Minzara said:


> I wouldn't say that, He almost beat Pein..killed Summoning Pein..find out a TON of info on Pein...and passed on that technique to Naruto. I think he went out with a bang...not a Deidara bang, but a bang none the less.



And throughout the fight Jiraiya showed us nothing new except hermit mode which was stupid especially with the annoying, bickering frogs that were extremely unfunny. Jiraiya died with a whimper because he didn't show us anything we haven't seen before. He didn't show us why he was considered such a powerful character. Heck even in his flashbacks he was referred to as a complete failure. So yeah not only did Jiraiya go out with a whimper but the whole fight was dragged out just to give info on Pein, reveal what we already knew for 400 chapters about Naruto's father, and reveal Naruto's powerup. 

You know what would have been cool? If Jiraiya was barely alive but alive enough to give Naruto the key himself before slumping over dead.




Minzara said:


> Ya, but thats also a theme in OP too, bad pasts. So I dont want to hear that. As for Peins character I like it. I love god concepts, characters that think there gods, and can back it up...



Well when multiple characters in Naruto share the same bad past it does pose quite a problem. Other than that I never siad there was anything wrong about characters having bad pasts. At least One Piece's bad pasts are more diverse.




Minzara said:


> They are all written well, I dont like them because Sasuke is a jackass, always was. Madara/Tobi not a fan of the whole gay mask. And Itachi is cool, i've especially liked him more in recent chapters.



The only thing even slightly good about Itachi was the psycho Itachi scene. Other than that the Uchiha's still suck even if Tobi is still the funny guy.


----------



## Maycara (Feb 19, 2008)

Aethos said:


> And yet Itachi and Minato were portrayed as geniuses that come about very rarely. Same with Kakashi. Gaara is portrayed to be the anti-thesis of Naruto. Even if his abilities are Kage level it should have taken more than 3 years for him to become a Kage. Especially if you compare Gaara to the other three Hokage's. Heck the only reason Tsunade was even considered for the position of Hokage was because of her rank as a sennin and because Jiraiya refused the title, but even Tsunade becoming Hokage is far more realistic than Gaara somehow going from genin to Kazekage in three years.


Well you got to consider alot of things. Sand village lost its Kage, Sand Village was in real bad shape. Sand village Kage's didn't seem all that strong, there strongest was the third. And Liked I said, 3 years is ALOT OF FUCKING time.And Gaara was way above genin level, everyone knew it.




> Because a week is a truly short amount of time. If it had been a month or two you might have something there, but even if Shikamaru trained his ass off and had prep time it still should have taken more than a week. Especially when you compare Shikamaru's avenger quest to Sasuke's.


Meh..your not putting in alot of factors...in the first fight Shikamaur had already used the shadow jutsu alot. He was much freasher by time he got to hidan. and I believe a week of hardcore training can improv your strength that much. Shikamaru is EXTREMELY smart, and learns fast. I am sure training, if he actually wants too. Is a cake walk for him.



> Even then this was all stuff that Jiraiya should have taught him during the time skip. It's not something Kakashi should be teaching him. It just made Jiraya out to be a bad teacher.


So? Jiraya even said he wasn't the greatest teacher, you can tell that by his personality. Minato probably didn't learn much from him either.




> That's true for any shounen character though, but they don't take it to extremes the way Naruto does. After all did Luffy cry over Robin all the time during Eines Lobby? No he said he was going to save her and that was that. Heck even Ichigo pulls it off better in regards to his friends especially in regards to Rukia and Orihime in their respective arcs.


Thats just Naruto's way, i like it, because its different and doesn't make him seem like a "exact" clone to Goku.



> And yeah all that genjutsu is still a waste of time even if it's what Itachi does most. I'm not the only one saying that either. It's just being thrown aroudn like a plot device to the point where entire chapters never happened because it was all a genjutsu. That's bullshit. That's just stalling.


*shurgs* I dont think so. Cause its actually happen, but to the brain. He might not be physically showning but every Genjutsu attack wears down Sasuke. Just not much.



> And throughout the fight Jiraiya showed us nothing new except hermit mode which was stupid especially with the annoying, bickering frogs that were extremely unfunny. Jiraiya died with a whimper because he didn't show us anything we haven't seen before. He didn't show us why he was considered such a powerful character. Heck even in his flashbacks he was referred to as a complete failure. So yeah not only did Jiraiya go out with a whimper but the whole fight was dragged out just to give info on Pein, reveal what we already knew for 400 chapters about Naruto's father, and reveal Naruto's powerup.


he show that huge as rasegan as well. and I think he should more too. It doesnt surprised Jiraya didnt have alot of Jutsu Like Orachimaru. Jiraya said, its not the amont of jutsu that makes you a ninja. Jiraya is alot like Naruto, and using a very limited amount of jutsu.



> You know what would have been cool? If Jiraiya was barely alive but alive enough to give Naruto the key himself before slumping over dead.


*shurgs* I liked the way he died...


> Well when multiple characters in Naruto share the same bad past it does pose quite a problem. Other than that I never siad there was anything wrong about characters having bad pasts. At least One Piece's bad pasts are more diverse.


There not the same....
Naruto never had any parents...but eventually found people he could call family.
Sasuke had parents, but they were all killed, by his brother.
Gaara has that yamma guy, and thats all. but in the end even he tried to kill him. So gaara had no one. But he did have a dad, he just wanted him dead.
Rock Lee was a failure and couldn't use ninjutsu, so he trained his ass of in Taijutsu...
Shikamaru was always  lazy...and finally stop being lazy.
Chouji was picked on because of his weight.
Kimimaru whole clan was a bunch of mad psychos, and got themselves killed, so Orchimaru took him in.
Sasori had loving parents, but the white fang killed them. So he turned his parents into puppets in hopes to feel love again..which failed..so he want insane.
Pein was a orpah(mind you we dont know if he is Nagato, or the other kid yet) But he lived in the middle of war. But he found like in Jiraya, but Jiraya left them high and dry...and they went the wrong path.

I could keep going...but something tells me..you shouldn't be mad at Naruto fans when the throw out false facts..when your going to do it too...




> The only thing even slightly good about Itachi was the psycho Itachi scene. Other than that the Uchiha's still suck even if Tobi is still the funny guy.


I agree for liking the character, but i think everything is written well for him, and his fellow clan mates.


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Feb 19, 2008)

_IMO Naruto >> OP. OP is just far to childish for me, i love a goofy hero but Luffy makes Naruto look like he was trained at Oxford university. The characters designs are ugly, there's no character development, the enemies they encounter are just as stupid in their design and don't last long enough for them to make a major impact in the manga as a whole. _

_Overall OP feels and looks unpolished and just goes nowhere for me. But it doesn't matter since OPfans are the biggest biased asses out there._


----------



## Teach (Feb 19, 2008)

Joe Gear said:


> _IMO Naruto >> OP. OP is just far to childish for me, i love a goofy hero but Luffy makes Naruto look like he was trained at Oxford university. The characters designs are ugly, there's no character development, the enemies they encounter are just as stupid in their design and don't last long enough for them to make a major impact in the manga as a whole. _
> 
> _Overall OP feels and looks unpolished and just goes nowhere for me. But it doesn't matter since OPfans are the biggest biased asses out there._


Wow a typical hater. You haven't even watched the manga. Childish? Seriously. No character developement?

Watch the anime and then come back with your bullshit.


----------



## Xion (Feb 19, 2008)

One Piece is much better plot and story-wise.

Naruto was at one point in the lead, but that point ended after the epic Pain fight.


----------



## Supa Swag (Feb 19, 2008)

Joe Gear said:


> _IMO Naruto >> OP. OP is just far to childish for me, i love a goofy hero but Luffy makes Naruto look like he was trained at Oxford university. The characters designs are ugly, there's no character development, the enemies they encounter are just as stupid in their design and don't last long enough for them to make a major impact in the manga as a whole. _
> 
> _Overall OP feels and looks unpolished and just goes nowhere for me. But it doesn't matter since OPfans are the biggest biased asses out there._



I wish people would stop letting their complete dislike of a series/fans dictate their opinion of the series (that goes for both sides).


----------



## Xion (Feb 19, 2008)

II Xion II said:


> One Piece is much better plot and story-wise.
> 
> Naruto was at one point in the lead, but that point ended after the epic Pain fight.



I totally agree.

But I also think it has better characters as well and the motivations and stories behind them. 

Instead of: "I want to kill a certain man."


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 19, 2008)

Joe Gear said:


> _IMO Naruto >> OP. OP is just far to childish for me, i love a goofy hero but Luffy makes Naruto look like he was trained at Oxford university. The characters designs are ugly, there's no character development, the enemies they encounter are just as stupid in their design and don't last long enough for them to make a major impact in the manga as a whole. _
> 
> _Overall OP feels and looks unpolished and just goes nowhere for me. But it doesn't matter since OPfans are the biggest biased asses out there._



and with people like this Naruto fans opinions don't even deserve respect. Especially since they're worse than any One Piece fan when their precious Naruto manga gets bashed

Yeah NaruTards we get it. You're ignorant assholes who don't read anything other than Naruto. So your opinions mean nothing in this thread.


----------



## Juubi (Feb 19, 2008)

Wow, this is quite the raging debate 

I may not like One Piece, but it's not nearly as bad as some people are making it out to be, lol


----------



## Doom85 (Feb 19, 2008)

II Xion II said:


> Instead of: "I want to kill a certain man."



Well, for crying out loud, any story can be dumbed down into a short sentence:

LOTR: Destroy evil ring
Star Wars: Defeat Empire
Matrix: Defeat Machines
Harry Potter: Defeat Voldemort
Fullmetal Alchemist: Get original bodies back
Samurai Champloo: Find Sunflower Samurai
Avatar: Master 4 elements and defeat Fire Nation

Also, I think people think Sasuke is this one-dimensional "emo" character, but let's look at how the character has evolved:

-Admirer of his brother, but wanted to have his father see him as an individual
-began to fear his brother, and was skeptical of his father's new pride in him
-hated his brother, and devoted his life to loneliness and revenge
-joins Team 7, and claims to still be a loner, yet "sacrifices" himself to save Naruto
-in the final fight with Gaara, we understand why he's been so reluctant to open himself to other people. He's terrified of losing everyone he loves again. But he's accepted Naruto and Sakura as his friends and comrades, and will defend them at all cost
-not only does he feel even further from his goal of defeating Itachi after Itachi easily defeats him, he is forced to watch the Uchiha massacre again and has to deal with the painful fact that Itachi wants Naruto, not him
-after being further humiliated by Naruto, he leaves the village. He thanks Sakura ambiguously, probably simply for caring for him. He warns her not to have anyone follow him, indicating he doesn't want any needless bloodshed
-Naruto and Sasuke fight, and Sasuke admits that Naruto is his best friend, and he has to sever that bond to become stronger. However, he doesn't completely sever it, as he spares Naruto's life. He also tells Naruto, "I'm..." before being cut off by rain. The most likely word would have been "sorry"
-Sasuke still wants Naruto to live his life to the fullest, as he questions why Naruto is pushing aside his dream to become Hokage in order to pursue him. He also is no longer initimidated by Naruto's success, as we see a hint of a smile on his face when he sees Naruto's name on Tazuna's bridge in the Land of Waves. He simply wants Naruto not to bother him until after he's finished with Itachi (and now, Madara).

Note: This is not a Naruto vs. One Piece point, as I think the type of shows are too different to judge between the two. Might as well try to debate whether Arrested Development or The Sopranos is better.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 19, 2008)

Joe Gear said:


> _IMO Naruto >> OP. OP is just far to childish for me, i love a goofy hero but Luffy makes Naruto look like he was trained at Oxford university. The characters designs are ugly, there's no character development, the enemies they encounter are just as stupid in their design and don't last long enough for them to make a major impact in the manga as a whole. _
> 
> _Overall OP feels and looks unpolished and just goes nowhere for me. But it doesn't matter since OPfans are the biggest biased asses out there._



I wont argue with you-BUT

Why if its so bad is it the 3th all time and for several YEARS 1TH MOST SELLING MANGA IN JAPAN.

Yes,Japaneese cant recognise good manga.

......................

to being biased-points to sig.Look up AkuOni posts.He critisizes OP for things 100 times more present in NARUTO and says a ruberman is inhuman,compared to a person who can turn into a half snake demon.

and-all the hypocrisy on Naruto fans' side-check the sig.Critisizing something they dont have even the most basic information about.

Ive seen OP bashed only in theese two threads.

Ive seen Naruto's part Ii bashed at THREE DIFERENT FORUMS.

And what your forgeting IS that OP is a childrens manga.

BUT-and Here I must say out loud-NARUTO IS AS WELL.

I rest my case.


----------



## Maycara (Feb 19, 2008)

Aethos said:


> and with people like this Naruto fans opinions don't even deserve respect. Especially since they're worse than any One Piece fan when their precious Naruto manga gets bashed
> 
> Yeah NaruTards we get it. You're ignorant assholes who don't read anything other than Naruto. So your opinions mean nothing in this thread.



please dont genealize....and i responed to your other post...


----------



## afro luffy (Feb 19, 2008)

One Piece >>>>> most good anime/manga

good anime/manga >>>>> bad anime/manga

most bad anime/manga >>>>> Naruto

i saw this on another forum and thought i'd share


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 19, 2008)

Minzara said:


> please dont genealize....and i responed to your other post...



But they make it so easy!


----------



## Darkyou (Feb 19, 2008)

Naruto for me, I love a good story about being chump to champ and how to get their. Luffy seems to be extremely experienced in how he fights. And he's only 17 while others are near their mid 40's.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 19, 2008)

Darkyou said:


> Naruto for me, I love a good story about being chump to champ and how to get their. Luffy seems to be extremely experienced in how he fights. And he's only 17 while others are near their mid 40's.



Well Luffy did train ten years to be that way.


----------



## Random Nobody (Feb 20, 2008)

Minzara said:


> There not the same....
> Naruto never had any parents...but eventually found people he could call family.
> Sasuke had parents, but they were all killed, by his brother.
> Gaara has that yamma guy, and thats all. but in the end even he tried to kill him. So gaara had no one. But he did have a dad, he just wanted him dead.
> ...



I feel the need to interject here as I think you've missed Aethos point (though I could be mistaken).  I believe Aethos was talking about the similar nature of many (though not all) of the pasts in Naruto.  Many of the characters backstories have a recurring theme of the of being shunned in some way by their peers, to varying degrees (from the whole village hating you because you have a demon in your stomach to being made from of because of physical attributes).

I'd also like to point out that well I do believe OP does backstories better then Naruto I've never had a problem with the ones in Naruto (minus hoping some of the backstories would be a bit more unique).


----------



## Maycara (Feb 20, 2008)

Random Nobody said:


> I feel the need to interject here as I think you've missed Aethos point (though I could be mistaken).  I believe Aethos was talking about the similar nature of many (though not all) of the pasts in Naruto.  Many of the characters backstories have a recurring theme of the of being shunned in some way by their peers, to varying degrees (from the whole village hating you because you have a demon in your stomach to being made from of because of physical attributes).
> 
> I'd also like to point out that well I do believe OP does backstories better then Naruto I've never had a problem with the ones in Naruto (minus hoping some of the backstories would be a bit more unique).



I didn't miss his point. Only two people had the shunned thing, that was Gaara and Naruto, and that added a whole new level of emotion between the two. Only two people where made fun of because of that, Sakura, and Chouji. You also got what...over 20 different characters with back stories? In Naruto and OP has its main crew which is at 8 now? maybe 9 with Brooke. And very few back stories outside of them. Ofcourse your going to have simalar ones, but i've pointed at those....which isnt alot.

And I argee and disagree, I think OP has some better backstories then Naruto, while Naruto has some better then OP.


----------



## Turrin (Feb 20, 2008)

I just recently read through the one piece manga and watched the anime and i can say w/o a doubt that one piece is currently much better then naruto. Naruto part 1 in my opinion kept up with the first half of one piece or was slightly better, but Naruto has gone down hill some what in my opion in terms of storyline, character development, etc... while One piece has gotten better and better. 

Orginally like many people stated i was turned off by One piece because it comes off very childish(especailly the first couple arcs) and some things seem down right crazy, but if you read the entire thing the writer actually makes these things work out and is able to turn a crazy stupid fight between luffy and a character that resembled tony the tiger into an amazing fight. Also the power ups and character development of the entire cast even the bad guys is for the most part extremely orginal and nothing i have ever seen before in a manga. We should also give OP's writer credit for a pretty orginal concept and design for his manga...there are dozens of manga about ninja/samurai, but i have yet to see a serious manga about pirates and OP is able to convincingly combine the crazy lunacy assocaited with pirates and an amazing shonnen plotline. The fights in one piece are also far better then the recent fights in naruto and are the most part orginal instead of genjutsu spam. Futhermore Naruto is extremely based off of HunterXHunter while at best OP has the same feal as Dragonball(but nothing is really directly taken from any other anime or manga). Futhermore the length and depth of the villains far surpasses that of naruto which has digressed into a purely uchiha slaughter fest. 

Naruto has a lot of potential and it has been my favorite manga for over a year now and i used to laugh at people who thought OP was better, but after reading it and seeing how orginal, creative, well though out, and yes even insane it is i really have to say the current OP has surpassed the current Naruto by a huge margin and only promises to get better and better. This is not to say that OP is an over all better manga or that naruto is an overall worse manga because we won't know till they are finished, but merely as of now OP has far more potentail and is currently outclassing Naruto in every element that makes up a manga


----------



## milhaus007 (Feb 20, 2008)

Don't get me wrong, but why is this thread still continuing?


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 20, 2008)

I see my argument was too perfect to reply to-oh well,may as well bring it later.

why?-look at our names,then ask again,if you still think THATS important.


----------



## Maycara (Feb 20, 2008)

Lobolover said:


> I see my argument was too perfect to reply to-oh well,may as well bring it later.
> 
> why?-look at our names,then ask again,if you still think THATS important.



You didn't really post anything directed at me, so I didn't care to respond, and I only disagreed with one point in your post. I know there intended for 'kids' but BOTH OP and NARUTO have very strong themes, and complicated subject matter, that I don't think kids will get. I don't think either one is for kids...just my opinion. DB, thats for kids..its simple plot. Mind you I like DB....


----------



## Suzuku (Feb 20, 2008)

I can't believe you just said the manga Naruto lacks character development 

That's what Kishi's been doing all Part 2, character development. And how did the storyline go down hill? In Part 1 the story didn't have a *main* problem, now it does. Akatsuki and Uchihas. If anything it has more structure.

Also Aethos can you tell me why you think Part 2 is the suxxors so I can make a proper rebuttal? All you've been doing so far is saying it sucks repeatedly without really backing your claim.


----------



## Maycara (Feb 20, 2008)

Master Chief said:


> I can't believe you just said the manga Naruto lacks character development
> 
> That's what Kishi's been doing all Part 2, character development. And how did the storyline go down hill? In Part 1 the story didn't have a *main* problem, now it does. Akatsuki and Uchihas. If anything it has more structure.
> 
> Also Aethos can you tell me why you think Part 2 is the suxxors so I can make a proper rebuttal? All you've been doing so far is saying it sucks repeatedly without really backing your claim.



I like you post, but dislike you sig's and avy.

Down with Halo!  lol but anyway. To me part 2 is better all around then part 1.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 20, 2008)

Minzara-yes,but it is PRIMARILY a kid manga,that you cant denny.

and will someone PLEASE fix the names?


----------



## -Dargor- (Feb 20, 2008)

I personally don't like OP much (mainly because of the character designs I guess) so I don't care.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Feb 20, 2008)

Minzara said:


> please dont genealize....and i responed to your other post...



He is right in generalizing considering alot of the posts in this thread. 

Ppl who barely read/watch OP and still saying it sucks makes it easy to do that.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 20, 2008)

yes.Look at the quote in my sig-esence of hypocrisy right there.(sory,baka)


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Feb 20, 2008)

Or the once i have.


----------



## Dark World Lightning (Feb 20, 2008)

> That's what Kishi's been doing all Part 2, character development. And how did the storyline go down hill? In Part 1 the story didn't have a main problem, now it does. Akatsuki and Uchihas. If anything it has more structure.



Uh, no, character development has been extremely weak as of Part 2.

Aside from Shikamaru, which of the rookie nine/sand siblings/their jonin has had the screentime they had in Part 1?

Beyond that, though, Sakura became practically a non-entity since the Rescue Gaara arc and since the second Rescue Sasuke arc she's almost disappeared. Sai has literally disappeared from the manga.

Naruto has shown little interest in progressing towards his role as Hokage and still shows the same lack of self-control he had in Part 1. Sasuke's become a monomaniac who only leaves his '...' persona to brag about how l33t and ub3r his Sharingan is. The closest thing he's shown to a new side is having his own team to boss around.


----------



## Mullet_Power (Feb 20, 2008)

Master Chief said:


> I can't believe you just said the manga Naruto lacks character development
> 
> That's what Kishi's been doing all Part 2, character development. And how did the storyline go down hill? In Part 1 the story didn't have a *main* problem, now it does. Akatsuki and Uchihas. If anything it has more structure.



Tell me what has changed from part 1 Naruto? No I am not talking about being a stronger fighter, I am talking about the character developing, and becoming different.

The main difference between Naruto and One Piece that I pointed out a few pages back was that Naruto is a "coming of age" story while One Piece generally is not. 

Naruto has not changed since part 1 he is just as reckless and naive as he was when we first saw him. But yet Kishi tried and portrays him as an adult and that he is surpassing his teachers? 

Sasuke is not any better, he is just as selfish and vengeful as ever. His character has not changed for the better or for the worse. 

Part 2 was more of an excuse to have the characters do a costume change and get new moves then to show them maturing in any way. Now i can see for comedic reasons keeping characters personalities the same(like keeping Naruto saying dumb things around Sakura), but the fact that Naruto is still this overemotional spaz in combat making stupid moves is just annoying.

One Piece like I said is not a coming of age story, they have already grown up and are out to complete there life long dreams. Luffy doesn't need to train any more via time skip or training arc because he already trained for 10 years. Zoro only needs to make himself physically stronger, he doesn't have to learn new techniques because he had completed training from a master swordsman. Usopp doesn't need to sit around shooting targets because he practically never misses. 

But even then characters have changed more then most Naruto characters, not in fighting strength but changed who they are.

When we first met Zoro he reluctantly joined Luffy and told him "If you ever get in the way of my dream, I will kill you" his dream of course is being the worlds #1 swordsman. But now not only has he put his life on the line for his crew mates, but he has gone as far as being willing to give up on his dream for Luffy to realize his. 

Usopp was probably the most childish member of the crew, and never really taking anything Luffy said as words coming from a captain. This eventually became a conflict when Luffy made a decision that Usopp did not agree with and thought Luffy was just being his careless self and that he hadn't thought it through. This resulted in Usopp leaving the crew and having to realize that Luffy is the captain and that this isn't a game before being allowed back into the crew.

I can go through and list many situations where characters have changed throughout the series, all the way up to 3 chapters ago. But when I look at Naruto part 2 i see none of that. Even characters who had gone through a change in part 1 have seen no further development. 

Neji seemed to have less hatred towards the head family and was on the path from being released from his "cage" but we have yet to see any development. 

Chouji had grown up teased all his life, and no one some him as a reliable Shinobi, so he almost died trying to prove people that he was. But yet the only person who seemed to care that he almost died in the rescue Sasuke ark is Shikamaru and Chouji's dad. Never heard if anyone changed there opinion on Choji just being a "fat ass". 

What about Lee, is he still recovering from a injury that was supposed to end his life as a Shinobi, is he still on his path to becoming recognized as an excellent Shinobi? 

What about Sakura, a main character I might add, has she even done anything to since defeating Sasori? I remember KN4 Naruto hit her once. But either then that she hasn't done shit, let alone change as a character.

Shikamaru kind of changed. He really was the most mature person in Naruto, I never understood the purpose of dedicating an arc to him and a character who maybe had a dozen panels in the entire Manga (Asuma).

All we have for characters other then Naruto or Sasuke is these half finished stories. It seems that once they are no longer relevant to the main plot they are just dumped off to the side incomplete story and all. 

The only person we have seen completely change is Gaara. He was changed by having contact with Naruto(part 1), took steps towards becoming some one different(during timeskip), and then us actually seeing the growth completed via the sands response to him being kidnapped. That first arc was great to see. But since then have we seen any changes in any characters? I can't think of anything.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 20, 2008)

> I didn't miss his point. Only two people had the shunned thing, that was Gaara and Naruto, and that added a whole new level of emotion between the two. Only two people where made fun of because of that, Sakura, and Chouji. You also got what...over 20 different characters with back stories? In Naruto and OP has its main crew which is at 8 now? maybe 9 with Brooke. And very few back stories outside of them. Ofcourse your going to have simalar ones, but i've pointed at those....which isnt alot.
> 
> And I argee and disagree, I think OP has some better backstories then Naruto, while Naruto has some better then OP.



Neji shunned by his clan

Chouji shunned by everyone except Shikamaru

Lee shunned by everyone except Gai

Hinata shunned by her father

Heck even Sasuke was shunned by HIS brother and father.

and I'm sure there's far more than that.



Master Chief said:


> Also Aethos can you tell me why you think Part 2 is the suxxors so I can make a proper rebuttal? All you've been doing so far is saying it sucks repeatedly without really backing your claim.



Actually I've explained some of my reasons already in this thread... But let's see...

Akatsuki an overhyped organization of S class criminals that have been completely slaughtered easily thus far by inexperienced teenagers in the damn stupidest of ways. We can expect this to continue so that way Kishimoto can quickly wrap up this series and move on to his mafia manga.

Naruto lusting over Sasuke's cock and crying like a bitch all throughout part 2.

Sai

Sasuke and the ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) brigade.

Orochimaru dying like a bitch.

The fact that anyone who ISN'T Naruto or Sasuke will be shafted into obscurity, and if they're not it's going to be REALLY fucking obvious that they're going to die in the next 20 or so chapters like in the case of Asuma or Jiraiya.

Fans claiming that Yondaime being revealed as Naruto's father is a great plot twist when we already knew this 400 FUCKING CHAPTERS AGO!

Kishimoto's obvious love for Uchiha wankfests.

Pein being the worst villain ever. Heck Enel beats Pein a billion fold in the God Complex department

The fact that Naruto part II is only a little better than Bleach, but that isn't saying much since nothing could be WORSE than Bleach.

and please the only people that think Part 2 is good is the UchihaTards that hate Naruto anyways or the Kishimoto apologists that seem to be in complete denial since they actually believe that Naruto rescuing Sasuke is somehow some vital point to becoming Hokage when really it isn't. Face it the plot of Naruto was abandoned long ago for more Uchiha fapping.

Hmmm I'm sure there's more but I'll have to think them up.


----------



## yukito (Feb 20, 2008)

I can't choose between the two, but one of the things that draws me to One Piece a bit more is that for the most part, the characters' development is gradual and believable. Nami didn't become truly useful until Enies Lobby.

I really appreciated how she grew into someone who could stand up for herself.

Chopper hasn't yet shown that he can be compared to Luffy or Zoro, but if you put him up against a lot of his former opponents, he would be stomping easily.

Perhaps one of the most admirable growths was the one of Usopp's.

In Naruto, they had a different way of making the characters grow. Putting a time skip in. Using a time skip can be good, but I really didn't think that some of the characters grew believably.

Lee, Neji, and Ten-Ten are all at least Chuunin. Yet they had problems defeating their own clones for a dozen episodes.

Sakura's development really doesn't interest me. For one, it didn't build at all on what she was given before the time-skip. I was expecting for a medical nin and a genjutsu user, and if she succeeded, I would have respected her more.

We got a watered-down Tsunade. The development hasn't been taken very well in Naruto, or at least in the second part of the series.

Just a bit of my perspective.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 20, 2008)

azn_fan_gurl said:


> I can't choose between the two, but one of the things that draws me to One Piece a bit more is that for the most part, the characters' development is gradual and believable. Nami didn't become truly useful until Enies Lobby.
> 
> I really appreciated how she grew into someone who could stand up for herself.
> 
> ...



actually Nami was useful from Alabasta onwards, but Nami's had her useful moments throughout the series that extend to more than just fighting. Same with Chopper.


----------



## Turrin (Feb 20, 2008)

> That's what Kishi's been doing all Part 2, character development. And how did the storyline go down hill? In Part 1 the story didn't have a main problem, now it does. Akatsuki and Uchihas. If anything it has more structure.


Not really the only people have got any development outside of new techniques are Garaa, Naruto, Shikkamaru, and Sakura(to a lesser extent). Sure kishi should leave the final development to the end of the story, but he has so far ignored Neji, Lee, TenTen, Choujii, Ino(of how he has ignored Ino who was suppose to be Sakura's rival and isn't even close), Kiba, Hinata, Shino, Sasuke(although this is actually believable because he can't give up on vengance), a host of Jounin and sensi, etc...

Really the problem with naruto part 2 is that kishi is rushing the seris to an end which makes fights unbeliavable, doesn't allow time for good character development, and ruins some of what was a pretty good plot in part 1. I also think part of the problem is that Kishi introduced way to many characters and then just kep introducing more and more of them...so he can't cover them all which leaves them out in the dust


----------



## 9th (Feb 20, 2008)

lol, pretty dumb move to compare One piece, right now the best shounen manga in JUMP...  and Naruto which has been going downhill since part 2!
Why Naruto sucks? Bad plot twist? or VERY VERY obvious plot twist? bad explanations to why stuffs happens (YES YOU "TSUKIYOMI-BREAKING" and "HIDAN-SLOWER-THAN-SHIKA" etc etc). Anyway... I really hope he does something soon that will make this manga progress in a good direction (I don't see it happening though).


----------



## LiveFire (Feb 20, 2008)

They both have good qualities and I read them both, I can't really say. OP has the better story though imo.


----------



## Maycara (Feb 20, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Neji shunned by his clan


 He was not shunned by his clan. It was the hole side family that got branded is all. They did NOT shun him.



> Chouji shunned by everyone except Shikamaru
> 
> Lee shunned by everyone except Gai


Again, this is MUCH different then Naruto's and Naruto deal. They weren't shunned really. People still talk to Chouji, and had coversation with him, and didn't completely ignore him. Like they did with Gaara and Naruto. Same goes for lee.

Hinata shunned by her father.
That one i'll give you. But that was only ONE Person. Instead of a large group, or a entire village.



> Heck even Sasuke was shunned by HIS brother and father.


He wasn't Shunned by his brother really. If you remember Itachi was willing to not go to some meeting so just Sasuke can get into the acamdemy....
And Sasuke father didn't shun him, if you remember what his mom said. He just had alot of things to worry about.


> and I'm sure there's far more than that.


I am sure you will come up with more...

I dont think you get what Shunned means..

shun
tr.v. shunned, shun·ning, shuns
To avoid deliberately; keep away from.



Aethos said:


> and please the only people that think Part 2 is good is the UchihaTards that hate Naruto anyways or the Kishimoto apologists that seem to be in complete denial since they actually believe that Naruto rescuing Sasuke is somehow some vital point to becoming Hokage when really it isn't. Face it the plot of Naruto was abandoned long ago for more Uchiha fapping.



Sigh...I am not Uchica tard...
Also IT IS. Imagine this. You have NO ONE. and I mean NO ONE. You find a best friend, after having NO ONE YOUR WHOLE LIFE. that can be called you brother. This friend leaves, and goes to someone evil. In the long run his FRIEND tries to kill him. But Doesn't at the last second. Naruto is seeing past all these actions, as obvisious blind hate for his brother. Naruto has seen Sasuke is a kind person. Sasuke RISKED His life for Naruto once, twice actually, maybe even 3 times. Naruto lost this friend. How can someone be hokage, the protector of a whole village, when they cant even save there best friend?


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Feb 20, 2008)

Lobolover said:


> I wont argue with you-BUT
> 
> Why if its so bad is it the 3th all time and for several YEARS 1TH MOST SELLING MANGA IN JAPAN.
> 
> ...


_Uuhhh...that's why it's called my opinion. This post was entirely pointless and is a waste of space, seriously._


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Feb 20, 2008)

oh,realy ,disagreeing with a poorly based opinion in a One series vs. Another thread.

whatever should this do in HERE?


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 20, 2008)

Joe Gear said:


> _I suggest you skeedaddle on over to OBD and you'll see what's what._



NaruTards are just as bad in the OBD. You just mad cause the Narutoverse could never win against the OPverse cause the Narutoverse is so damn weak in comparison. Heck it's pretty much obvious that most Naruto vs One Piece threads made in the OBD are NaruTards trying desperately and failing to make the One Pieceverse lose to the Narutoverse.

Oh by the way. Your pitiful attempt at a neg rep did nothing to me. Who's the petty bitch now?



Minzara said:


> He was not shunned by his clan. It was the hole side family that got branded is all. They did NOT shun him.



All that "it's the main house's fault I'm a caged bird," "it's the main house's fault my dad is dead," "It's the main house's fault that my destiny was to be in the branch house." etc says different.





Minzara said:


> Again, this is MUCH different then Naruto's and Naruto deal. They weren't shunned really. People still talk to Chouji, and had coversation with him, and didn't completely ignore him. Like they did with Gaara and Naruto. Same goes for lee.



So wait you're comparing everyone else's past to Naruto's? No fucking wonder you don't think they were shunned or anything. There are different ways of being shunned you know. The kids shunned Chouji for instance because he was fat, Sakura shunned her best friend Ino because she's a Sasuke whore, Sakura herself was shunned by people until Ino made her grow some balls, and heck Lee was shunned because nobody wanted to hang around the failure.




Minzara said:


> He wasn't Shunned by his brother really. If you remember Itachi was willing to not go to some meeting so just Sasuke can get into the acamdemy....
> And Sasuke father didn't shun him, if you remember what his mom said. He just had alot of things to worry about.
> 
> I am sure you will come up with more...
> ...



Yes they did. Sasuke's father shunned him because he wasn't like Itachi and Itachi wanted nothing to do with him period which is why he would always refuse to help Sasuke with shuriken training.

and I'm using the definition in it's own meaning.






Minzara said:


> Sigh...I am not Uchica tard...
> Also IT IS. Imagine this. You have NO ONE. and I mean NO ONE. You find a best friend, after having NO ONE YOUR WHOLE LIFE. that can be called you brother. This friend leaves, and goes to someone evil. In the long run his FRIEND tries to kill him. But Doesn't at the last second. Naruto is seeing past all these actions, as obvisious blind hate for his brother. Naruto has seen Sasuke is a kind person. Sasuke RISKED His life for Naruto once, twice actually, maybe even 3 times. Naruto lost this friend. How can someone be hokage, the protector of a whole village, when they cant even save there best friend?



Naruto has plenty of other best friends. Heck Gaara is more of a best friend to Naruto than Sasuke is. Also it's not like the hokage can keep everyone from leaving the village either so it really doesn't matter if he saves Sasuke or not. It's not going to bring him closer to Hokage status. He would have just fulfilled his promise to Sakura is all and his own selfish desires.


----------



## Maycara (Feb 20, 2008)

Aethos said:


> All that "it's the main house's fault I'm a caged bird," "it's the main house's fault my dad is dead," "It's the main house's fault that my destiny was to be in the branch house." etc says different.


No it does NOT. He was not Shunned. Read the diffention I put. Shunned means to completely ignore a human being, DILEBERTLY. NONE OF THAT HAPPENED to Neji. Its completely different. 



> So wait you're comparing everyone else's past to Naruto's? No fucking wonder you don't think they were shunned or anything. There are different ways of being shunned you know. The kids shunned Chouji for instance because he was fat, Sakura shunned her best friend Ino because she's a Sasuke whore, Sakura herself was shunned by people until Ino made her grow some balls, and heck Lee was shunned because nobody wanted to hang around the failure.


WOW...now your just turning everything into Shunned.....I ain't comparing it Narutos. Naruto, and Gaara are the PRIME example of being Shunned. Those others are not.



> Yes they did. Sasuke's father shunned him because he wasn't like Itachi and Itachi wanted nothing to do with him period which is why he would always refuse to help Sasuke with shuriken training.


.........You need to go back through naruto again or something. when Sasuke asked his mother why his dad ignores him, her response was....





I rest my case....

I would bring one for Itachi to about the acdemy..but I think the above is enough...



> and I'm using the definition in it's own meaning.


You diffently using it some way.....




> Naruto has plenty of other best friends. Heck Gaara is more of a best friend to Naruto than Sasuke is. Also it's not like the hokage can keep everyone from leaving the village either so it really doesn't matter if he saves Sasuke or not. It's not going to bring him closer to Hokage status. He would have just fulfilled his promise to Sakura is all and his own selfish desires.


You thinking ir mathical terms, instead of heart. To Naruto's closest friend IS Sasuke. He feels inside his heart that if he cannot save his closet, and best friend. He cannot become Hokage. It makes perfect sense.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 20, 2008)

Minzara said:


> WOW...now your just turning everything into Shunned.....I ain't comparing it Narutos. Naruto, and Gaara are the PRIME example of being Shunned. Those others are not.



Because there's only one way for a person to be shunned. Gotcha. You're being far too literal in your definition. There's different ways of being shunned you know.

As far as Sasuke goes you think whichever way you wish. I mean you're the one who also argued that Shikamaru's win against Hidan was legitament and not a crock of bullshit too...




Minzara said:


> You thinking ir mathical terms, instead of heart. To Naruto's closest friend IS Sasuke. He feels inside his heart that if he cannot save his closet, and best friend. He cannot become Hokage. It makes perfect sense.



Jiraiya and Orochimaru were also "friends" and look how that turned out. Heart doesn't really mean much and if by saving Sasuke that earns Naruto the title of Hokage I bet I won't be the only one who calls bullshit on that.


----------



## Maycara (Feb 20, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Because there's only one way for a person to be shunned. Gotcha. You're being far too literal in your definition. There's different ways of being shunned you know.


No I am not. I understand what your trying to get across, but your going about it the COMPLETELY wrong way. You trying to say everyone's past is related in some way, or form. By the fact they alot were shunned in some way. But your wrong. There not. There are some with simalarities, i'll give you that. But by no means, at all where, or most shunned. You are just stating none facts. Which is messed up cause you get mad at Naruto fans for doing. Aethos, ive argue with you before, I thought you were above such things....



> As far as Sasuke goes you think whichever way you wish. I mean you're the one who also argued that Shikamaru's win against Hidan was legitament and not a crock of bullshit too...



Sigh...I love how you say that, and dont argue the point. Where is the Aethos I used to argue with? This isn't him.  And Yes I do, and I pointed out extremely good points, and you did too. SO I dont think any of use got anywhere in that one. We could be wrong both us. 




> Jiraiya and Orochimaru were also "friends" and look how that turned out. Heart doesn't really mean much and if by saving Sasuke that earns Naruto the title of Hokage I bet I won't be the only one who calls bullshit on that.


Sigh...again...you doing it my math..I am NOT WAY SAYING IF NARUTO SAVES SASUKE HE WILL BECOME HOKAGE. No, it doesnt work that way. but by saving him, it gives naruto, the courage, and determination to go for it again. Right not he can, but he NEEDS to save his friend, for himself.


----------



## Carly (Feb 20, 2008)

This thread just proves most Naruto fans are shallow pricks that will never kiss a girl because their standards are beyond what they really are. 

As for OP vs Naruto....OP by far. Its a different artstyle,hardly childish and the plot is nowhere near kiddy at all. If you honestly think that then have fun with your uchiha "give me your eyes" bullshit. Not to mention most of Naruto has been random bullshit with no real continuity aside from Saturobi dying and Sasuke leaving Konoha. Needs more Rock Lee, Gaara and Neji. Needs less Sasuke. 

One Piece gives everyone equal airtime. It also has continuity and fights that are actually interesting. As for people not dying in One Piece, who the fuck died in Naruto aside from J-man and Saturobi that actually moved the plot? Asuma? He was barely in part 1 or part 2 for crying out fucking loud!


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 20, 2008)

Minzara said:


> No I am not. I understand what your trying to get across, but your going about it the COMPLETELY wrong way. You trying to say everyone's past is related in some way, or form. By the fact they alot were shunned in some way. But your wrong. There not. There are some with simalarities, i'll give you that. But by no means, at all where, or most shunned. You are just stating none facts. Which is messed up cause you get mad at Naruto fans for doing. Aethos, ive argue with you before, I thought you were above such things....
> 
> 
> 
> Sigh...I love how you say that, and dont argue the point. Where is the Aethos I used to argue with? This isn't him.  And Yes I do, and I pointed out extremely good points, and you did too. SO I dont think any of use got anywhere in that one. We could be wrong both us.



Fine then. Have it your way. You win.





Minzara said:


> Sigh...again...you doing it my math..I am NOT WAY SAYING IF NARUTO SAVES SASUKE HE WILL BECOME HOKAGE. No, it doesnt work that way. but by saving him, it gives naruto, the courage, and determination to go for it again. Right not he can, but he NEEDS to save his friend, for himself.



And I believe that Naruto needs to realize that not everyone can be saved.


----------



## Fan o Flight (Feb 20, 2008)

Turrin said:


> Not really the only people have got any development outside of new techniques are Garaa, Naruto, Shikkamaru, and Sakura(to a lesser extent). Sure kishi should leave the final development to the end of the story, but he has so far ignored Neji, Lee, TenTen, Choujii, Ino(of how he has ignored Ino who was suppose to be Sakura's rival and isn't even close), Kiba, Hinata, Shino, Sasuke(although this is actually believable because he can't give up on vengance), a host of Jounin and sensi, etc...
> 
> Really the problem with naruto part 2 is that kishi is rushing the seris to an end which makes fights unbeliavable, doesn't allow time for good character development, and ruins some of what was a pretty good plot in part 1. I also think part of the problem is that Kishi introduced way to many characters and then just kep introducing more and more of them...so he can't cover them all which leaves them out in the dust



Agreed. Eigther he slows down and takes more time and chapters in this manga or this will go downhill. I love one piece but fans really overrate them like some say they can take goku. Thats when it crosses the line.


----------



## Carly (Feb 20, 2008)

Actually i take back my post i made. You can't really compare One piece to Naruto. They're too different from each other and i feel the genres are different too. One Piece is an adventure or tale like DB while Naruto is like a real time coming of age plot where the characters develop and age overtime while they just develop in One Piece,not age.

The only thing is Kishi is a bad mangaka and he's doing a bad job at developing his characters in Naruto. They seem to stay in one spot and just age slowly but never change. He tried to make it like DBZ only with time skips and aging and drama and it just doesn't fit well with DBZs style so it fell apart. One Piece doesn't try to have all of that mindless soap opera drama like Naruto so it does fine knowing its strengths and weaknesses.


----------



## Doom85 (Feb 20, 2008)

Aethos said:


> And I believe that Naruto needs to realize that not everyone can be saved.



He's known that since Part 1. Good grief, he was willing to end Haku's life. He's just trying to save Sasuke from living a meaningless life after he gets his revenge. Sasuke was beginning to live a happy life until Itachi returned, and Kakashi is a prime example of a person learning to put the past behind them. For example, if I had a friend who was abusing drugs, I'd try as much as possible to help them stop. It's called caring about others, and if that's wrong, then I don't really want to be "right".

Besides, what does it matter what we believe? This isn't our story, we have no say in the "theme". You can disagree with the theme of a story, but still enjoy it. I know someone who disagreed with the theme of "Lord of the Flies", but still thought it was an excellent read. Not every story you read is going to reflect the way you think, and that's a fact.


----------



## Maycara (Feb 20, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Fine then. Have it your way. You win.


 LOL no you won. Cause the bigger man always concedes first...damn you Aethos! 







> And I believe that Naruto needs to realize that not everyone can be saved.



Maybe, I kindof like his attitude, its wierd, unusal, and different.


----------



## Turrin (Feb 20, 2008)

> Agreed. Eigther he slows down and takes more time and chapters in this manga or this will go downhill. I love one piece but fans really overrate them like some say they can take goku. Thats when it crosses the line.


Yes...kishi deffinatly needs to take more time and mabye have a break in the Akatsuki story for awhile and shift to Konoha internal affairs having to do with Danzo. Root and Danzo is actually the best thing that Kishi has done for the manga in a really long time too bad he hasn't kept with that plot and just turned Sai magically into another clone. I just finished reading OP and i have to say anyone that compares even Luffy to Goku is insane. Luffy could probably defeat the Goku of Dragonball, but anything else is pretty insane and thats a good thing because the powerlevels of the characters in Dragonball z made no sense anyway


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 20, 2008)

Doom85 said:


> He's known that since Part 1. Good grief, he was willing to end Haku's life. He's just trying to save Sasuke from living a meaningless life after he gets his revenge. Sasuke was beginning to live a happy life until Itachi returned, and Kakashi is a prime example of a person learning to put the past behind them. For example, if I had a friend who was abusing drugs, I'd try as much as possible to help them stop. It's called caring about others, and if that's wrong, then I don't really want to be "right".



Jiraiya's the one who told Naruto to forget about Sasuke and I doubt he said that because he didn't care about others. Naruto can't save Sasuke. If anything Naruto's quest to save Sasuke is meaningless since only Sasuke can save himself. Something that Sasuke will ultimately refuse to do just as Orochimaru did in Jiraiya's case. Naruto needs to learn that he needs to let Sasuke go, and that some people just cannot tbe saved. This situation is far different form Haku's.

I know it may go against the bonds and friendship crap that people believe to be the theme of this manga, but let's face it. Sasuke's already cut those bonds and made it perfectly clear he wants nothing to do with Naruto, Team 7, or Konoha. There is no reason to save him because Sasuke does not want to be saved.


----------



## Doom85 (Feb 20, 2008)

Aethos said:


> There is no reason to save him because Sasuke does not want to be saved.



Couldn't the same argument be made for Gaara? Gaara didn't want to be saved, he had chosen his path and that was that. But Naruto's actions inspired him, and he slowly became a better person. Naruto's reunion with Sasuke was quite brief, and Naruto was denied his usual chance of "inspiring" people. Naruto has more of a motive to save Sasuke than he does Gaara, obviously.

And let's not forget, Jiraiya claimed that it was best to let him go, but then later regrets not being able to save Orochimaru, since his defection from the Leaf Village led to many deaths and sorrow. Sasuke isn't really a true villain IMHO at this point, but down the road? It's either a "snake" or a "hawk", as Tobi pointed out.

Also, kinda OT, but Batman was even stricter on several of his proteges that wanted revenge, and nobody gave him any lip for it.  But then again, he is BATMAN, after all, and nobody argues with him if they know what's good for them!


----------



## G@R-chan (Feb 20, 2008)

There are some intense discussion in this thread. 

I'll just say One Piece obviously rapes Naruto in every area.

Whenever I read a chapter of One Piece I am . 
Whenever I read a chapter of Naruto I am . 
That should be a good enough reason.


----------



## Amatsu (Feb 20, 2008)

Doom85 said:


> Couldn't the same argument be made for Gaara? Gaara didn't want to be saved, he had chosen his path and that was that. But Naruto's actions inspired him, and he slowly became a better person. Naruto's reunion with Sasuke was quite brief, and Naruto was denied his usual chance of "inspiring" people. Naruto has more of a motive to save Sasuke than he does Gaara, obviously.



Gaara is also different. Again Gaara was the anti-thesis of Naruto, or what Naruto could have been had he never been acknowledged. If anything Naruto didn't really save him. Naruto indirectly saved him as through Gaara's eyes it was someone who was just like him fighting for his life to protect his friends that made Gaara change into a better person. If anything most of the people that Naruto has saved he has done so indirectly, and he didn't do it by crying and chasing after the person constantly. No this is pretty exclusive to Sasuke.

Sasuke has thrown away all those things and has made it clear that there is nothing Naruto can do and that he has no qualms about killing him.If there is truly a bond between Naruto and Sasuke it's definitely one sided on Naruto's end. It doesn't matter how much Naruto cries and chases after Sasuke. Sasuke isn't going to come back.



Doom85 said:


> And let's not forget, Jiraiya claimed that it was best to let him go, but then later regrets not being able to save Orochimaru, since his defection from the Leaf Village led to many deaths and sorrow. Sasuke isn't really a true villain IMHO at this point, but down the road? It's either a "snake" or a "hawk", as Tobi pointed out.



But even then Sasuke doesn't really have the same ambition as Orochimaru did. After Sasuke gains his vengence he could practically do whatever he wants, but I doubt it'll have anything to do with death or destruction. He'd probably just settle down somewhere and rebuild his clan.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Feb 21, 2008)

G@R-chan said:


> Whenever I read a chapter of Naruto I am .



Same for me as its been lately.

Goddamit why not just move to the Kisame-fight already..

So we can actually see something that has the potential to be an good fight..

Now that the current one has been ruined pretty much all the way 

The tiny hope thats left in this manga all rests on you now Kisame


----------



## Maycara (Feb 21, 2008)

Kweck said:


> Same for me as its been lately.
> 
> Goddamit why not just move to the Kisame-fight already..
> 
> ...



I've liked the fight so far. If Itachi shows ATLEAST one my technique, I will be happy. I've liked where its going, and if Itachi dies, it goes with the rest of the themes so far...

Sasori died because of his inability to detach himself from his parents.

Hidan is being tortured for the rest of eternity, because thats how he lived his life. torturing others.

Ku died because he relied to much on his knowledge.

Deidara became the art that he loved. Creating the most beautiful art, in his eyes.

Orachimaru lived in a very ugly way, doing very ugly things, and in the end he died in a ugly way.

Itachi has searched for nothing but power, and thats been his whole goal, in the end that power will be the end of him....


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Feb 22, 2008)

Even Turrin now thinks OP > Naruto.

Its settled then


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Mar 3, 2008)

so did we win        ?


----------



## Agmaster (Mar 3, 2008)

Why can't OPs lock threads?  Seriously, why is thils still here.


----------



## Maycara (Mar 3, 2008)

AH! Its back!!! WHY LOBO!!! WHY DID YOU BRING IT BACK!!!! No one ever agrees lol.



Lobolover said:


> so did we win        ?



No...no one won. lol


----------



## MIHAWK. (Mar 3, 2008)

after the recent chapters with sasuke breaking tsukuyomi with his will and countering amaterasu with:

a) gokyaku no jutsu

b) *FREAKING KAWARIMI NO JUTSU THAT WAS EVEN PRAISED WHEN EVERY NOOB CAN USE IT,EVEN GENINS CAN!!! AND IT WAS SAID AS A MOVE THAT TAKES LOT OF CHAKRA AND ORO USES!!!! OMFG!!!*

kishi has abandoned the manga,he spends like 10 minutes to make it,he puts no effort,there's no reason to debate this anymore


----------



## Maycara (Mar 3, 2008)

MIHAWK said:


> after the recent chapters with sasuke breaking tsukuyomi with his will and countering amaterasu with:
> 
> a) gokyaku no jutsu
> 
> ...



Actually Itachi stopped the amaterrasu before Sasuke did that. To be technical. Itachi could of killed sasuke, but he didnt want to destroy the eyes. So your wrong with the second assuamption. As for the first, its amazing what human will can do, i tell you.

I still love Naruto, And I still love OP. But Naruto is better.


----------



## MIHAWK. (Mar 3, 2008)

u got it wrong,itachi theoritically burned all of sasuke's body except the eyes but in reality he was burning the wood,sasuke replaced it b4 the flame got to him and itachi stopped it when he thought he had already burned sasuke's half body


----------



## Glued (Mar 3, 2008)

MIHAWK said:


> u got it wrong,itachi theoritically burned all of sasuke's body except the eyes but in reality he was burning the wood,sasuke replaced it b4 the flame got to him and itachi stopped it when he thought he had already burned sasuke's half body



No there are types of Kawarimi. Like Deidara's kawarimi with a clay bunshin. I believe Kankuro, and Pain do Kawarimi as well. 

The Kawarimi that Sasuke did, he switched places with a layer of his skin. Like a snake and escaped through the chest.

I believe the technique is called Oral Rebirth, however, Sasuke didn't come out of the mouth like Oro for some reason.

Sasuke seems to have completely healed and his body is covered in placenta goo.

Sasuke didn't counter Ameterasu with Gokyaku, he countered Itachi's fireball with a CS2 fireball. Then Itachi overcomes with Ameterasu. Truth is, if Itachi wanted to, he could have completely burned away Sasuke, not just the top layer of skin.

Anyways, I am really hoping to see Kisame vs Hebi or Kisame vs Naruto or  Kisame vs Gai III. 

The whole manga now rests on Kisame to put on a good show.

With One Piece, fights hardly ever disappoint.


----------



## Maycara (Mar 3, 2008)

Firebait answer it for me Mihawk, so no point in posting about it, thanks Firebait.


----------



## wafersticks (Mar 4, 2008)

Rikudou said:


> As I heard the name One Piece quite often and many friends recommended it to me, I honestly tried to read it. I wanted to start from the beginning and read it all and I had high hopes. Many people said they preferred OP over Naruto, so I got really excited.
> Once I looked at the first couple of pages I noticed something that deterred enormously from reading it...:
> The art was* BUTT UGLY!*.
> 
> ...



I was gonna say Fuck You and Go to Hell but I thought it was not worth it to get pissed about it, 

I'm currently reading both and I say One Piece is a lot better than Naruto but I'm not saying Naruto is bad, its good.

It's just One Piece is something else.

I also read about One Piece being like Disney and I don't disagree completely since almost no one dies in One Piece...(I don't think its a bad thing about OP though)


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Mar 30, 2008)

now,after the end of thriller Bark,can someone stil tell me that this is worse then ye great orange ninja,with ye headband that makes everyone notice him bein' a ninja,which be actualy against ye wery basi principles of this here profesion?


----------



## Maycara (Mar 30, 2008)

Lobolover said:


> now,after the end of thriller Bark,can someone stil tell me that this is worse then ye great orange ninja,with ye headband that makes everyone notice him bein' a ninja,which be actualy against ye wery basi principles of this here profesion?



Yes, TB was good, my 3rd fav arc in OP, but it had alot of parts I disliked greatly. Like the fail that is Moria, and Nightmare Luffy too, because Luffy never seeks aid like that, just felt really OOC. Naruto is still better in my eyes, I thought the Itachi VS Sasuke fight was really good, and I am fan not of either Sasuke or Itachi.


----------



## Bleeding-Eyes (Mar 30, 2008)

One Piece's art takes a little while to get used to, but now that I'm into the story I really think the art is badass and unique.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Mar 30, 2008)

see,BE,well make a rhodes scholar of you et.

minzara-the water in Alabasta was "help" too,ina way.and seriously,he cant tackle all that alone,neither,were not DBZ young man.

plus,Moria was shown to become a shichi only cause of his df and as such a character,hes quite interesting and also hes given the most reason for his doings,similar to Omatsuri from the 6th (?) movie.


----------



## Bleeding-Eyes (Mar 30, 2008)

Yeah, One Piece is great so far, I'm just on episode 40 ish - just started really.  What a refreshing alternative to Naruto, it's got a way more epic feel to it.  Favorite character so far is Sanji, how more gangster can you get? Insult my food one more time and I'll kick your head off lmao...


----------



## Moonraker_One (Mar 30, 2008)

OP versus Naruto? Naruto would assrape the original poster.

Oh, you're talking about _One Piece_.


I really think that debating whether or not One Piece versus Naruto is better, is retarded. After all, there are people who like both (like me), and those people come into threads like these and want to smack sense into people who hate. There's a bitch in my anime club who hates Naruto but loves FMA and I love FMA, so I want to bitch slap her when she talks.


----------



## Masaki (Mar 31, 2008)

Moonraker_One said:


> There's a bitch in my anime club who hates Naruto but loves FMA and I love FMA, so I want to bitch slap her when she talks.



This makes complete sense.

Oh wait-


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Mar 31, 2008)

OP must be even further ahead now the way i see it.

There was 2 chapters of the Uchiha-fight that showed improvement but the last chapters that concluded the fight made it shortlived.

Last weeks chapter wasnt much impressive either while OP was epic lolz, so its still miles ahead of Naruto imo.


----------



## KuyaCesar (Mar 31, 2008)

I think OP would be really interesting, but I personally like to stick to Naruto.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Mar 31, 2008)

it wont kill you if you try and itl be worth it.I mean,there just as many chapters of Naruto every week as there if of OP.the rest can be used to catching up.


----------



## Bleeding-Eyes (Mar 31, 2008)

Lobolover said:


> it wont kill you if you try and itl be worth it.I mean,there just as many chapters of Naruto every week as there if of OP.the rest can be used to catching up.



I got a question for you , what do you think of the OP Anime, and how does it differ from the manga.  Currently, I'm only watching One Piece so I'd like to know your opinion, thanks.


----------



## patrickveech (Mar 31, 2008)

In short, Naruto Part 1 >> OP

Naruto Part 2 had great potential, and still does. It actually seems to get greater and greater with every chapter released. I'd say at the moment, yes, OP is better. Not by too much though. The overall appeal of OP is good, but a little to childish for me. It's all about the crew's success, no real drawbacks. Ussop's temp. departure is the most epic event within the crew in the entire manga, better than Nami's departure. There is virtually no connection with reality's real and concrete hardships in One Piece aside from tyrany. Admit it, OP addicts.

Naruto, however, has lost protagonists (J-man, Sandaime), antagonists (Oro, Itachi, Sound 5 & 3 Sound nin from the Chuunin Exams, Sasori, Deidara, Hidan, Kakuzu), and other influential characters that were key to other characters' developments, such as Zabuza, Haku, the Uchiha clan, and Obito. Naruto also covers isolation, depression, and anxiety much better than OP does, in my opinion. 

I admit, both manga are 5-star, there's no denying it. They both have infectious lead characters, anti-heroes, and main cast. The settings are also amazing, and the storylines are (usually) very much acceptable. being a Shonen manga, the fights are obviously amazing and much-anticipated. Both are styles great. In the end, I predict that Naruto will outshine One Piece, though.


----------



## muishot (Mar 31, 2008)

Bleeding-Eyes said:


> I got a question for you , what do you think of the OP Anime, and how does it differ from the manga.  Currently, I'm only watching One Piece so I'd like to know your opinion, thanks.



One Piece Anime is much better than Naruto because the anime stay true to the manga.  For Naruto's anime, with its effort to keep the anime from catching up to the manga, it stall for time way too much and using flashbacks way too many. It really is destroy the quality of the anime.


----------



## Mikaveli (Mar 31, 2008)

Naruto is my favorite for the moment.


----------



## Supa Swag (Mar 31, 2008)

patrickveech said:


> In the end, I predict that Naruto will outshine One Piece, though.



This will only happen if Kishimoto incorporates the rest of his world into his manga, rather than have Konoha do everything and be the reason for everything and have the rest of the villages stagnant. The villains also have to be threatening (Pein is a start). 

There's not doubt in my mind that Naruto has more potential than One Piece, but it's up to Kishimoto to use it. So far, it's not looking good since Naruto is nearly over (third of the way there). Meanwhile, One Piece is barely halfway through and there's still so much that needs to happen.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Apr 2, 2008)

patrickveech -so ,no "setback",like having a crewmember go to sacrifice herself and die a most horrible death for her comrades sake and they going to do the impossible and taking down Enies Lobby,the island of no hope,is NOT a setback?Nami betraying the SH's to go to AP solely to get her villiage back and failing is NOT a setback?Ussop leaving the crew is NOT a setback?Zoro ofering his own life instead of Luffy's is NOT a setback?Luffy being defeated by Crocodile TWICE is NOT a setback?Luffy losing to Aokiji is NOT a setback?


----------



## Teach (Apr 2, 2008)

Well Naruto was my first anime then Bleach.

I started watching OP and I didn't really feel for it after watching 5-7 eps. I started again when my internet was off and I had 20-40 eps more in my pc. 

I fell in love with OP literally. Naruto is ok, Bleach can be really good at times. But OP outshines them by miles. Humour, drama, plot IMO is alot better than both Naruto and Bleach combined.


----------



## Mike Hunt (Apr 2, 2008)

If you really compare OP and Naruto, OP wins by a land slide. Its sad that you people can't see at the creativity, humor, amazing battles, etc ,etc


----------



## competitionbros (Apr 2, 2008)

Bleeding-Eyes said:


> I got a question for you , what do you think of the OP Anime, and how does it differ from the manga.  Currently, I'm only watching One Piece so I'd like to know your opinion, thanks.





There's a few cleanups in the anime to make it more viewable to a wide audience (such as Luffy stabbing himself near the eye and Zeff eating his own leg), anime is sometimes funnier but the manga's fights are better IMO.




patrickveech said:


> In short, Naruto Part 1 >> OP
> 
> Naruto Part 2 had great potential, and still does. It actually seems to get greater and greater with every chapter released. I'd say at the moment, yes, OP is better. Not by too much though. The overall appeal of OP is good, but a little to childish for me. It's all about the crew's success, no real drawbacks. Ussop's temp. departure is the most epic event within the crew in the entire manga, better than Nami's departure. There is virtually no connection with reality's real and concrete hardships in One Piece aside from tyrany. Admit it, OP addicts.
> 
> ...




From what I hear Oda doesn't kill his main characters because he doesn't want undeserved sympathy. I mean anyone can have a character, develop them over 8-9 chapters, make the audience fall in love with them, then just kill em off and have fans saying it's "an epic death" and "incredibly sad".


----------



## KLoWn (Apr 2, 2008)

This shit still going on lol?
And major lawlz at the pathetic fanboys who still can't accept that some people like Naruto better than OP, *that's* sad.


----------



## TadloS (Apr 2, 2008)

Ofcourse Naruto is better then OP wait better name 
*Spoiler*: __ 



*Piece of shit. Not all suppose to like your piece of shit *


----------



## Sasuke_fanboy (Apr 2, 2008)

Kitty Litter said:


> This will only happen if Kishimoto incorporates the rest of his world into his manga, rather than have Konoha do everything and be the reason for everything and have the rest of the villages stagnant. The villains also have to be threatening (Pein is a start).
> 
> There's not doubt in my mind that Naruto has more potential than One Piece, but it's up to Kishimoto to use it. So far, it's not looking good since Naruto is nearly over (third of the way there). Meanwhile, One Piece is barely halfway through and there's still so much that needs to happen.


I agree with this post. Were almost done with manga, yet Kishi didn't even bother to introduce the 3 remaining kages, let alone their villages. I want my ninja world war.


----------



## KLoWn (Apr 2, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> I want my ninja world war.


Isn't there a revolution comming up


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Apr 2, 2008)

SoldaT said:


> Ofcourse Naruto is better then OP wait better name
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...



That name suits Naruto part 2 perfectly imo.



Teach said:


> I fell in love with OP literally. Naruto is ok, Bleach can be really good at times. But OP outshines them by miles. Humour, drama, plot IMO is alot better than both Naruto and Bleach combined.



QFT


----------



## Maycara (Apr 2, 2008)

Mike Hunt said:


> If you really compare OP and Naruto, OP wins by a land slide. Its sad that you people can't see at the creativity, humor, amazing battles, etc ,etc



Same could be said about Naruto....man...lol


----------



## Nezo (Apr 2, 2008)

Some of these replies are plainly hilarious. Debating is about showing others why what you think or feel is right, not about telling them that they _are_ wrong. You can disagree, but that will still be only your own opinion. Personally, I tried to get into One Piece but I thought that it looked ugly and childish as fuck, so you will never change my opinion, no matter how many times you say "No, it isn't!".


----------



## lynxie (Apr 2, 2008)

I never read One Piece, I dislike character design a lot. 

Which is strange because I like Fairy tail, and that looks a lot like OP.
But Fairytale will never be my favourite, I like the characters and stuff, but it is just a funny manga, nothing more.

I guess I am going to try OP, to create a honest opinion. 
But it doesn't look like a serious story. Maybe I will like it, but I don't think I find it better then Naruto. But you never know...

And *Nezo* you have a good point there! 

We are all diferent people afterall, with all our own likes and dislikes.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Apr 2, 2008)

KLoWn said:


> This shit still going on lol?
> And major lawlz at the pathetic fanboys who still can't accept that some people like Naruto better than OP, *that's* sad.



and critisizing a series as "piece of shit" even if you dont have the most fundamental information about it,is NOT?



SoldaT said:


> Ofcourse Naruto is better then OP wait better name
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...



oh realy?then tell me:

* why is it number 1 series in Japan?

* why its the 3th all time best selling?

AND

* WHY does KISHIMOTO like it?


----------



## mastercilander (Apr 2, 2008)

One Piece is an epic adventure, Naruto is a somewhat dark tale about a village and its enemies.

It is hard for me to choose really. I've though about this question before and can't answer.


----------



## Sh4r|ng4n (Apr 2, 2008)

One piece was tons of fun... Awesome to discuss, argue about etc etc... 

Till me and my buddies turned 9. Then it got too childish.


----------



## lynxie (Apr 2, 2008)

Ok I read 14 chapters. It was better then I thought. Characters are more likable then how they look. 
I hate Luffy's fighting style! It looks very ugly to me. But he does have a nice character.
Zoro has a cool fighting style and up to chapter 14 I liked him the most.

But I just can't stand the character design... I thought Luffy and crew looked ugly, but they look great if I compare it to the rest. But I guess that is preference of what kind of drawing style you like.

Anyway I am not reading this. It just not have what I look for. But that doesn't mean it is a bad serie, just that it is not my taste.

Better then Naruto? Not for me, but that is just a personal opnion. 
After 14 chapters Naruto I was inlove with the story and characters, with OP I just find it a lot better then I thought, but still it doesn't make me want to read it.

Anyway no hard feelings! Take care.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Apr 2, 2008)

thats precisely why its the number 1 manga.

also thats realy not a reason cause its a childrens manga like naruto.

and it realy isnt a poor argument at all.


----------



## KLoWn (Apr 2, 2008)

Lobolover said:


> and critisizing a series as "piece of shit" even if you dont have the most fundamental information about it,is NOT?


Where did i say it wasn't? Don't put words in my mouth.
But my point still stands, all to many OP fanboys seems to have a major problem with realizing that some people like Naruto better, it just isn't possible for them, and that's sad.


----------



## Fang (Apr 2, 2008)

KLoWn said:


> Where did i say it wasn't? Don't put words in my mouth.
> But my point still stands, all to many OP fanboys seems to have a major problem with realizing that some people like Naruto better, it just isn't possible for them, and that's sad.



Its kinda of hard to justify your statement when Naruto's own Mangeka has focused nearly the last seventy or so chapters on a character who jobbers his way to victory at the expense of the plot and development of the rest of the characters of the manga, including the main character.

Which is something Oda has never done.


----------



## Mintaka (Apr 2, 2008)

One peice beats out naruto hands fucking down.

Oda's constantly surprisi ng us pulling out wierd little plot twists or bringing back characters that we never thought we'd se again into importance while making it all epic, hilarious, adventurous, and sometimes a bit eery or dark.

naruto part one:Had the potentail to be a VERY good manga.

Part 2:took that potentail, shat on it, wrapped it in tiolet paper, and flushed it down the drain.


----------



## KLoWn (Apr 2, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Its kinda of hard to justify your statement when Naruto's own Mangeka has focused nearly the last seventy or so chapters on a character who jobbers his way to victory at the expense of the plot and development of the rest of the characters of the manga, including the main character.
> 
> Which is something Oda has never done.


If people like that shit who are you to say they are wrong?


----------



## Fang (Apr 2, 2008)

KLoWn said:


> If people like that shit who are you to say they are wrong?



Hello weak cop-out.


----------



## Mintaka (Apr 2, 2008)

KLoWn said:


> If people like that shit who are you to say they are wrong?


I am tokoyami thats who.


----------



## KLoWn (Apr 2, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Hello weak cop-out.


Are you crying cuz you didn't like the chapters containing Sasuke or wut?


----------



## Fang (Apr 2, 2008)

KLoWn said:


> Are you crying cuz you didn't like the chapters containing Sasuke or wut?



Crying? Why would I care? I'm point out the fact to you that Kishimoto himself is a shitty mangeka who can't even give proper development to his own story or main characters without using Sasuke straight for the last 70 or so chapters nearly.


----------



## Glued (Apr 2, 2008)

Right now Naruto is in a slump, there has been a lot of build up for Sasuke's character and many of the others have left to the sides, including Naruto Uzumaki, however, there is the possibility that Kishi will turn things around. Oda never disappoints, all his battles have a clear victor. I don't really know where Kishi is going these days, but I have faith that he will tie up all his loose ends with plots, characterization and themes.

Oda on the other hand, I can trust most assuredly. Recently Luffy did a belly to belly suplex on a giant flying fish. Oda is certainly imaginative.


----------



## Maycara (Apr 2, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Its kinda of hard to justify your statement when Naruto's own Mangeka has focused nearly the last seventy or so chapters on a character who jobbers his way to victory at the expense of the plot and development of the rest of the characters of the manga, including the main character.
> 
> Which is something Oda has never done.



Part 1 focused on Sasuke alot as well. Part 2 just does thing longer, and more epic like. Fight usually run 10 chapters and so on. I've like how every Sasuke fight has been done so far. And I hate Sasuke, and I am not a big fan of Itachi, Orochimaru, or Deidara either. But i've like it all, and found it really enjoyable. Naruto will get his time, but Sakura had to get it first, then Shikamaru, then Sasuke. Naruto will get his, but other characters need it too. I like the fact Naruto doesn't constantly jump back and forth. It focuses on one character for awhile, especially with Sasuke. I like it like that. Mind you I am a big fan of One Piece as well. But Naruto just appeals to me more.


----------



## Fang (Apr 2, 2008)

Why hasn't this thread been moved to the Library 2nd Floor where we don't have to debate this in the fucking Naruto section?


----------



## Maycara (Apr 2, 2008)

Firebat said:


> Right now Naruto is in a slump, there has been a lot of build up for Sasuke's character and many of the others have left to the sides, including Naruto Uzumaki, however, there is the possibility that Kishi will turn things around. Oda never disappoints, all his battles have a clear victor. I don't really know where Kishi is going these days, but I have faith that he will tie up all his loose ends with plots, characterization and themes.
> 
> Oda on the other hand, I can trust most assuredly. Recently Luffy did a belly to belly suplex on a giant flying fish. Oda is certainly imaginative.



I disagree, I love how Naruto doesn't have clear victorys, I love how Itachi death was handled. One Piece is great, and entertaining. But Naruto just feels more "human" to me.


----------



## KLoWn (Apr 2, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Crying? Why would I care? I'm point out the fact to you that Kishimoto himself is a shitty mangeka who can't even give proper development to his own story or main characters without using Sasuke straight for the last 70 or so chapters nearly.


Maybe you missed the fact that Sasuke was needed for the story develope, he's always been an important piece in the Naruto story.
It's pretty obvious that you're just bwwaaah'ing cuz you hate Sasuke/Uchiha/random something.


----------



## Fang (Apr 2, 2008)

Minzara said:


> I disagree, I love how Naruto doesn't have clear victorys, I love how Itachi death was handled. One Piece is great, and entertaining. But Naruto just feels more "human" to me.



Yeah its certainly more human with "bishonen" bad guys at almost every corner and the main character is never allowed a distinguished victory. At least in One Piece, people overcome their problems, not wallow with them for three hundred chapters.

Naruto went from a bad-ass to a whinny little prick about Sasuke in all of Part 2.

Naruto is not "more human", its more trivial.


----------



## DeminSasuke (Apr 2, 2008)

Naruto is way better than Op. Op characters are poorly drawing and it sucks. Naruto Part 2 is more serious, better drawn, and the charaters would beat the crap out of the one piece characters.


----------



## zuul (Apr 2, 2008)

I think OP is better (except for the drawings I absolutely detest) , but I still like Naruto better. *cough shirtless bishies cough*.


----------



## Fang (Apr 2, 2008)

KLoWn said:


> Maybe you missed the fact that Sasuke was needed for the story develope, he's always been an important piece in the Naruto story.
> It's pretty obvious that you're just bwwaaah'ing cuz you hate Sasuke/Uchiha/random something.



No but I find it hilarious how close your sitting on Sasuke's sword since you appearently think that Naruto should have no importance in his own story, which hasn't even focused on him barring a one volume and half length of an arc. Part 2 starts with Sakura, continues with no specifics, goes to Shikamaru and Naruto sharing the lime light for less then two volumes, then Sasuke for nearly seventy more chapters.

You make me laugh. Main Character who is no longer revelant in his own story. Yeah, obviously that's what all of Shonen Jump mangekas are about.



DeminSasuke said:


> Naruto is way better than Op. Op characters are poorly drawing and it sucks. Naruto Part 2 is more serious, better drawn, and the charaters would beat the crap out of the one piece characters.



Shittiest argument ever. So OP characters have to be generic styled pretty boys and girls to be a quality manga?


----------



## Maycara (Apr 2, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Yeah its certainly more human with "bishonen" bad guys at almost every corner and the main character is never allowed a distinguished victory. At least in One Piece, people overcome their problems, not wallow with them for three hundred chapters.
> 
> Naruto went from a bad-ass to a whinny little prick about Sasuke in all of Part 2.
> 
> Naruto is not "more human", its more trivial.



Ya and One Piece art is realistic? Wasn't refering to the art. Was refering to the story. Sasori was beat because of his human emotion for his parents. Itachi died from his body being to weak to handle the power he gained. Stuff like that, and I could keep going. Thats the great thing Naruto, is his failures. Now is a failure, no doubt, but he keeps trying. Alot of people in RL are failures, running everyday jobs at Mickey D's. There not Epic like One Piece is. Naruto is more Human is that aspect.


----------



## KLoWn (Apr 2, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Yeah its certainly more human with "bishonen" bad guys at almost every corner and the main character is never allowed a distinguished victory. At least in One Piece, people overcome their problems, not wallow with them for three hundred chapters.


So you're one of them "ZOmG IT's a biSHounen, HE is TeH sUxk by DEFeauLt!!" 
Naruto has had lots of victories, fuck you babbling about?


----------



## KLoWn (Apr 2, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> No but I find it hilarious how close your sitting on Sasuke's sword since you appearently think that Naruto should have no importance in his own story, which hasn't even focused on him barring a one volume and half length of an arc. Part 2 starts with Sakura, continues with no specifics, goes to Shikamaru and Naruto sharing the lime light for less then two volumes, then Sasuke for nearly seventy more chapters.


Where did i say i think Naruto should have no importance in his own story? Oh wait, i didn't, you're just making shit up 
If Kishi's story needs Naruto to stay out of the spotlight until the story has developed to the point for him to return then so be it, i have no problem with the Uchihas, or the other characters that gets attention atm.


Mirai Gohan said:


> You make me laugh. Main Character who is no longer revelant in his own story. Yeah, obviously that's what all of Shonen Jump mangekas are about.


He is relevant to the story, if you've missed that then you're clearly reading some other shit.
Or are you saying that Kishi is doing something all the other Mangaka's ain't and that's a bad thing?


----------



## Fang (Apr 2, 2008)

KLoWn said:


> Where did i say i think Naruto should have no importance in his own story? Oh wait, i didn't, you're just making shit up
> If Kishi's story needs Naruto to stay out of the spotlight until the story has developed to the point for him to return then so be it, i have no problem with the Uchihas, or the other characters that gets attention atm.



Once more another cop-out. Show me where Naruto has had any importance in Part 2 to the story outside of the Immortal's Arc. Do you understand what main character means?



> He is relevant to the story, if you've missed that then you're clearly reading some other shit.
> Or are you saying that Kishi is doing something all the other Mangaka's ain't and that's a bad thing?



Right, there must be a reason why so much of Naruto's weekly sales are dropping every week compared to even Bleach, much less One Piece. And doing something no other mangeka has done? You mean being a shitty writer, even compared to Kubo and Inuyasha's Mangeka?

Yeah!


----------



## Mintaka (Apr 2, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Inuyasha's Mangeka?
> 
> Yeah!


Who rumiko takahashi?


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Apr 2, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Right, there must be a reason why so much of Naruto's weekly sales are dropping every week compared to even Bleach



Is this for real? Surprising if it is.

And i agree with Mirai Gohan, there is no excuse for leaving the Main Character out for so long.

Its bad writing imo.


----------



## Maycara (Apr 2, 2008)

I've already said my response to that arguement. lol. The Naruto being left out one. Go back a few posts to see it. Seriously though. OP is great. But Naruto is better imo.

As for the sale, Sales can fuck my big fat cock, they prove nothing on the quality of a product, Titanic is the highest grossing movie ever in america, but sucks dick. Sales prove nothing.


----------



## KLoWn (Apr 2, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Once more another cop-out. Show me where Naruto has had any importance in Part 2 to the story outside of the Immortal's Arc. Do you understand what main character means?


Do you have to have Naruto's balls hanging in front of you in every panel  to like the story?
I couldn't care less what he's done in part 2, which is not much i agree, but he's not the focus of the story that's being told atm, so why do you want to force his ass in there?


Mirai Gohan said:


> Right, there must be a reason why so much of Naruto's weekly sales are dropping every week compared to even Bleach, much less One Piece.


I wouldn't know about the sales, and i don't care.
I don't read it cuz it's popular, i read it cuz i like it, ya digg.


Mirai Gohan said:


> And doing something no other mangeka has done? You mean being a shitty writer, even compared to Kubo and Inuyasha's Mangeka?
> 
> Yeah!


Worse than Inuyasha's Mangaka? Yeah, you just lot all credibility.


----------



## Fang (Apr 2, 2008)

KLoWn said:


> Where did i say i think Naruto should have no importance in his own story? Oh wait, i didn't, you're just making shit up
> If Kishi's story needs Naruto to stay out of the spotlight until the story has developed to the point for him to return then so be it, i have no problem with the Uchihas, or the other characters that gets attention atm.



Hey strawman argument. You keep using that crappy, " If Kishimoto gives them panel time, there must be a reason, so its cool! " excuse. Your responses are getting stagnate.



> He is relevant to the story, if you've missed that then you're clearly reading some other shit.
> Or are you saying that Kishi is doing something all the other Mangaka's ain't and that's a bad thing?



When did I say that? Kishimoto is just a shitty writer. Really, show me a famous mangeka known for the quality of their stories who consistantly sunders their main characters from the plot.

Please, find me a link for this in Shonen Weekly Jump.



KLoWn said:


> Do you have to have Naruto's balls hanging in front of you in every panel  to like the story?
> I couldn't care less what he's done in part 2, which is not much i agree, but he's not the focus of the story that's being told atm, so why do you want to force his ass in there?



So you don't know what the purpose of Naruto is then. Concession Accepted.



> I wouldn't know about the sales, and i don't care.
> I don't read it cuz it's popular, i read it cuz i like it, ya digg.



I don't care. Naruto is not as popular as people think nor as great as most other current or past works. Kishimoto has done nothing innovative for the genre.



> Worse than Inuyasha's Mangaka? Yeah, you just lot all credibility.



Hey new Sharingan power-up in Orochimaru's fight! Hello again in Deidara's! Hey Deus Ex Machina device when fighting Itachi!

At least Inuyasha got a new sword a couple dozen chapters ago. Which makes his reasonings valid for new powers. Your concession is accepted.


----------



## Matariki (Apr 2, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Right, there must be a reason why so much of *Naruto's weekly sales are dropping every week compared to even Bleach, much less One Piece*. And doing something no other mangeka has done? You mean being a shitty writer, even compared to Kubo and Inuyasha's Mangeka?
> 
> Yeah!



How can Naruto's weekly sales drop compared to Bleach/OP? 

They're published in the same magazine, right?


----------



## Fang (Apr 2, 2008)

Seiko said:


> How can Naruto's weekly sales drop compared to Bleach/OP?
> 
> They're published in the same magazine, right?



They are made by the same author to right? 

Why are you here? You don't even read One Piece.


----------



## Ark 2.0 (Apr 2, 2008)

SoldaT said:


> Ofcourse Naruto is better then OP wait better name
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...



argh....well OP ha superior humor, superior story line...and the story actually focuses on the main character for starters...argh


----------



## C-Moon (Apr 2, 2008)

Tokoyami said:


> Who rumiko takahashi?


Mangaka known for creating Ranma 1/2 and Inuyasha.


DeminSasuke said:


> Naruto is way better than Op. Op characters are poorly drawing and it sucks. Naruto Part 2 is more serious, better drawn, *and the charaters would beat the crap out of the one piece characters.*


 
The greatest Strength feat was Tsunade lifting Gamabunta's blade. Something that Mihawk surpassed in *Volume 6*.


----------



## Fang (Apr 2, 2008)

Seiko said:


> I tried to read OP but I wasn't interested.
> 
> The characters and even the villains are too childish.



You lie, as usual. Now go back to the UG FC. Crocodile being childish? Impaling people on pirate hook is childish? Lucci is childish? Enel is childish? You make me laugh.

One Piece is the third highest all time leading manga in sales in Shonen Weekly Jump, behind only Dragonball and Kochikame (I think). Its the only manga whose 25th Volume boosted Shonen Jump's sales in over 11 years. Its the most popular manga to ever reach manga sales over 100,000,000 internationally and 140,000,000 domestically in Japan itself.

Japan perfers One Piece, not Naruto.


----------



## Ark 2.0 (Apr 2, 2008)

argh...the most comical part about naruto as that the "ninjas" have more in comen with pirates then actuall ninjas...argh


----------



## Maycara (Apr 2, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> You lie, as usual. Now go back to the UG FC. Crocodile being childish? Impaling people on pirate hook is childish? Lucci is childish? Enel is childish? You make me laugh.
> 
> One Piece is the third highest all time leading manga in sales in Shonen Weekly Jump, behind only Dragonball and Kochikame (I think). Its the only manga whose 25th Volume boosted Shonen Jump's sales in over 11 years. Its the most popular manga to ever reach manga sales over 100,000,000 internationally and 140,000,000 domestically in Japan itself.
> 
> *Japan perfers One Piece, not Naruto.*



I care how? lol. Like I said being popular and saleing good, is great and all. But it proves nothing of the actually work. And how good it is. There tons of thing that are popular that should die. Like reality TV...


----------



## Fang (Apr 2, 2008)

Minzara said:


> I care how? lol. Like I said being popular and saleing good, is great and all. But it proves nothing of the actually work. And how good it is. There tons of thing that are popular that should die. Like reality TV...



Because the context of popularity was brought up. Naruto has to be one of the most over-rated pieces of shit ever to come out of Weekly Shonen Jump. And boring as hell.


----------



## Ark 2.0 (Apr 2, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Because the context of popularity was brought up. Naruto has to be one of the most over-rated pieces of shit ever to come out of Weekly Shonen Jump. And boring as hell.



argh...i nahve t admite naruto part 1 had its moments, but then part 2 came out and it all went downhill...argh

argh...i mean what kishi took one of the most antisipated fights in the series and made it crappy...argh


----------



## Matariki (Apr 2, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> You lie, as usual. Now go back to the UG FC.



I'm section banned.


----------



## Maycara (Apr 2, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Because the context of popularity was brought up. Naruto has to be one of the most over-rated pieces of shit ever to come out of Weekly Shonen Jump. And boring as hell.



Same thing can be said about One Piece in JAPAN. Like I said, I LOVE both Naruto and One Piece, but there completely two different things, and they both give me two different experiences. and whoever brought up popularity needs to be shoot.


----------



## Tachikoma (Apr 2, 2008)

One piece is indeed better, following both I can say that freely and with a clear mind, with no fanboyism attached to that statement.


----------



## CountFloyd (Apr 2, 2008)

God... Just let this topic die.

If you don't like Naruto than don't post in the Naruto section please.

Just go back to OP and never come here again.


----------



## KLoWn (Apr 2, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Hey strawman argument. You keep using that crappy, " If Kishimoto gives them panel time, there must be a reason, so its cool! " excuse. Your responses are getting stagnate.


Are you saying that anything without Naruto is without plot importance?
Show us, plz.


Mirai Gohan said:


> When did I say that? Kishimoto is just a shitty writer. Really, show me a famous mangeka known for the quality of their stories who consistantly sunders their main characters from the plot.
> 
> Please, find me a link for this in Shonen Weekly Jump.


Say what? That he's not relevant to the story?


> Main Character who is no longer revelant in his own story. Yeah, obviously that's what all of Shonen Jump mangekas are about.


And i still don't get your point for bitching about the maincharacter not being in focus, he hasn't been out that fuckin long for you to start crying about it.
He makes constant apperances even when the story for the moment doesn't revolve around him.



Mirai Gohan said:


> So you don't know what the purpose of Naruto is then. Concession Accepted.


Nah, it's just you who can't see the big picture using lame excuses like "Naruto ain't in it! It sucks!!! Bwaaahh!"


Mirai Gohan said:


> I don't care. Naruto is not as popular as people think nor as great as most other current or past works. Kishimoto has done nothing innovative for the genre.


If you don't care then why'd you bring this shit up??


Mirai Gohan said:


> Hey new Sharingan power-up in Orochimaru's fight! Hello again in Deidara's! Hey Deus Ex Machina device when fighting Itachi!


He got some X-ray vision in the Deidara fight, what's the other ones, enlighten me.
And since you like Oda wouldn't you like random powerups?


Mirai Gohan said:


> At least Inuyasha got a new sword a couple dozen chapters ago. Which makes his reasonings valid for new powers. Your concession is accepted.


So you're getting cranky cuz the sharingan evolved?


----------



## Ark 2.0 (Apr 2, 2008)

CountFloyd said:


> God... Just let this topic die.
> 
> If you don't like Naruto than don't post in the Naruto section please.
> 
> Just go back to OP and never come here again.



argh...just because our favorite manga is betting killed do we not have the right to defend its honour...argh?


----------



## raibbhani (Apr 2, 2008)

Lol. This thread still alive.

Anyway, One Piece plot and storyline is more organized and aren't confusing as hell like Naruto.


----------



## Mullet_Power (Apr 2, 2008)

What the hell is this, the thread has been revived by idiots. If you are gonna argue for OP at least pick quality points, you sound like morons.


----------



## Fang (Apr 2, 2008)

Link removed
Link removed
Link removed

Lol at One Piece being Childish.


----------



## KLoWn (Apr 2, 2008)

Zuko said:


> Anyway, One Piece plot and storyline is more organized and aren't confusing as hell like Naruto.


Wut is confusing?


----------



## Teach (Apr 2, 2008)

90% of the OP bashers haven't even read OP.

Min and Klown are the only guys I know who have watched both and they prefer Naruto on some parts. Good for you.

If I hear OP being more childish or naive than Naruto, my head will explode.


----------



## Matariki (Apr 2, 2008)

KLoWn said:


> And i still don't get your point for bitching about the maincharacter not being in focus, he hasn't been out that fuckin long for you to start crying about it.
> He makes constant apperances even when the story for the moment doesn't revolve around him.



Yeah. I'm glad the story is about team 7, not just Naruto. Sasuke arc is great, new characters (Hebi), and after that Kishi will focus on Sakura and Kakashi.


----------



## Fang (Apr 2, 2008)

Seiko said:


> Yeah. I'm glad the story is about team 7, not just Naruto. Sasuke arc is great, new characters (Hebi), and after that Kishi will focus on Sakura and Kakashi.



You mean those shitty side characters that Kishimoto had to begged to give importance to from his Editoral Staff at Shonen Jump?


----------



## Ark 2.0 (Apr 2, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> You mean those shitty side characters that Kishimoto had to begged to give importance to from his Editoral Staff at Shonen Jump?



argh...those, well at liest oda gives equal time to straw hats and explains whats happening in the meanwille...argh


----------



## CountFloyd (Apr 2, 2008)

> argh...just because our favorite manga is betting killed do we not have the right to defend its honour...argh?



Ok, first off stop typing "argh", your not a pirate.

Secondly, does it matter what a bunch of people say about your favourite manga? Not really, just ignore them and keep on reading OP.

Comparing them is just stupid. Just read whatever one you like and don't listen to anyone else. The best way to do this is let this topic die and stop posting arguements here.


----------



## Ark 2.0 (Apr 2, 2008)

CountFloyd said:


> Ok, first off stop typing "argh", your not a pirate.
> 
> Secondly, does it matter what a bunch of people say about your favourite manga? Not really, just ignore them and keep on reading OP.
> 
> *Comparing them is just stupid*. Just read whatever one you like and don't listen to anyone else. The best way to do this is let this topic die and stop posting arguements here.



argh...i have to agrre with ye there, but this is op vs naruto..in the naruto section, the ninjas have home field advantage so the Op readers come to voice in there likes of Op the same way naruto posters post there dislikes....argh

argh...it be only fair...argh


----------



## KLoWn (Apr 2, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> You mean those shitty side characters that Kishimoto had to begged to give importance to from his Editoral Staff at Shonen Jump?


Yeah i think that's them, what about it?


----------



## Ennoea (Apr 2, 2008)

Silly comparisons, its always "my manga is better than yours", school girl shit


----------



## Fang (Apr 2, 2008)

KLoWn said:


> Yeah i think that's them, what about it?



Nothing, enjoy your cannon fodder characters who have absolutely no revelance other then one of them being a shittier version of Part 1 Sakura as a whore who is a female version of Sasuke, a clear Android 16 rip-off with Sakon and Ukon's personality and a Zabuza Bishonen wannabe.


----------



## KLoWn (Apr 2, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Nothing, enjoy your cannon fodder characters who have absolutely no revelance other then one of them being a shittier version of Part 1 Sakura as a whore who is a female version of Sasuke, a clear Android 16 rip-off with Sakon and Ukon's personality and a Zabuza Bishonen wannabe.


You're not even trying anymore, are you?


----------



## Fang (Apr 2, 2008)

KLoWn said:


> You're not even trying anymore, are you?



Why do I need to try? You want to show me the massive plot revelance that Karin, Juugo and Suigetsu bring to the story?

Really? Because carbon copy clones of past characters are not interesting nor revelant.


----------



## CountFloyd (Apr 2, 2008)

OK, so I wasn't going to reply until I saw one of your blog entries Gohan...

It reads: 





> I can write a better story then Kubo and Kishimoto put together



I never bothered to read it as it is just plain retarded.

I can picture you as being a 13 year old kid with an equally retarded attitude.

If you are older than 13 than you should start acting like one and not post stupid blogs like the one above.

I am not complaining about anything you said in this thread only about that one blog, and I'm sure if i scroll down more on your blog, I'd find even worse ones then that, but that after reading that one blog entry I couldn't physically move my mouse down as I thought I might lose some intelligence.


----------



## Fang (Apr 2, 2008)

CountFloyd said:


> OK, so I wasn't going to reply until I saw one of your blog entries Gohan...
> 
> It reads:
> 
> ...



Aww, your hurting my e-feelings man. Cohesive plots that seem to elude Tite Kubo and Kishimoto's grasp. And 13 years old? Bawahahahaha.



> If you are older than 13 than you should start acting like one and not post stupid blogs like the one above.
> 
> I am not complaining about anything you said in this thread only about that one blog, and I'm sure if i scroll down more on your blog, I'd find even worse ones then that, but that after reading that one blog entry I couldn't physically move my mouse down as I thought I might lose some intelligence.



So basically your entire post here is to cry because I don't have one hand reaching down Kishimoto's pants, ejaculating his e-cock because I'm not impressed by his shitty story or characters? Its nice to know your entire little rant post is high on anything but substance.

13? You made my day man. Really you did.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Apr 2, 2008)

Mirai-thumbs up.

I would be willing to say Naruto is better if id be given clear evidence counteracting mine.which is yet to happen.


----------



## Ninjaguiden (Apr 2, 2008)

Thats one though question there.

I really like the Naruto concept (Ninjas and Jutsus) plus the Akatskui is one nice villain group. In OP it feels like there are no central enemies to fight, more factions mean more diversity but still...


----------



## CountFloyd (Apr 2, 2008)

Did I say anything about you hating Naruto or Kishi?

No I wrote that post because of the fact you think you are a better writer than Kishi.

So why don't you go off and write your own manga that is better than Naruto.

Come back when you think you have a good idea ok ?


----------



## Marte1980 (Apr 2, 2008)

One Piece is better. Better plot, better fights, more interesing and particular characters, etc. etc. The great thing about the manga Naruto was Naruto(the character) himself in part one. In part two everything changed, Sasuke's obsession cancelled all the interesting Naruto's traits. Now Naruto as a character is just annoying, and the plot revolved till now around a kid who wanted to kill his brother. Why should I care about that?
Instead One Piece has been getting better and better. You can't even compare the plot. After all, where's the plot in Naruto now? It's just one "Save Sasuke" arc after another. I had some hope during the JiraiyavsPein fight, but then everything became even worse with that ridiculous fight of staring contest between those two brothers.


----------



## KLoWn (Apr 2, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Why do I need to try? You want to show me the massive plot revelance that Karin, Juugo and Suigetsu bring to the story?


Juugo being the source for the cursed seal, Suigetsu having connections to Zabuza, Karin...nothing.
They haven't been in the manga long so how about you wait until it's finished until you start crying 


Mirai Gohan said:


> Really? Because carbon copy clones of past characters are not interesting nor revelant.


Copies? Pics & explanations plx.


----------



## Fang (Apr 2, 2008)

CountFloyd said:


> Did I say anything about you hating Naruto or Kishi?
> 
> No I wrote that post because of the fact you think you are a better writer than Kishi.
> 
> ...



Didn't you already prove now, if not earlier, that you can't counter my evidence or point so you restort to attacking my blogs? That's rather pathetic. 

Let me summarize your argument though.

" Dude you don't like Naruto and you can clearly establish the fact that neither of the two aforementioned mangekas can have a clear grasp or clarity on their stories...YOU SUCK! YOUR 13 YEARS OLD! E-FEELINGS MAN! DO YOU DIG THEM!? "


----------



## Ark 2.0 (Apr 2, 2008)

argh..a.t least we are no longer in the library, now we are at neutral ground...so i cna finally leave...argh


----------



## KLoWn (Apr 2, 2008)

Ark 10.3a said:


> argh..a.t least we are no longer in the library, now we are at neutral ground...so i cna finally leave...argh


Actually i would say this area is way more in favour for OP, but wutever.


----------



## Fang (Apr 2, 2008)

KLoWn said:


> Juugo being the source for the cursed seal, Suigetsu having connections to Zabuza, Karin...nothing.



They've been in the fucking manga for nearly a year now. What is Juugo? Wow, a source for the Curse Seal. Such a massive spoiler in the story right? Karin? She obviously isn't a female version of Sasuke who has a whore induced version of Part 1 Sakura's personality? Really she doesn't?




> Copies? Pics & explanations plx.



Lol " SASUKE-KUN YOUR SO AWESOME! SASUKE-KUN, LETS MAKE LOVE! NO WAY SASUKE-KUUUUUUUUUUUN CAN LOSE TO DEIDARA! 

You make me lol at your deliberate attempt at ignorance.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Apr 2, 2008)

civil,regardless of certain peoples "elaborate arguments",how about we simply open a poll on this?


----------



## Matariki (Apr 2, 2008)

At least the characters in Naruto get injured and some of them die. 

Isn't the OP main character invincible? So exciting.


----------



## Teach (Apr 2, 2008)

Seiko said:


> At least the characters in Naruto get injured.
> 
> Isn't the OP main character invincible? So exciting.



Injured? Another proof of ignorance.

Watch Zoro vs Mihawk or Zoro vs Kuma.


----------



## CountFloyd (Apr 2, 2008)

Counter what evidence?

I never said that i prefer Naruto over OP at all. I only replied because of that blog post to let others know that you are actually retarded.

I don't care about the op v naruto arguement...


----------



## Doom85 (Apr 2, 2008)

competitionbros said:


> From what I hear Oda doesn't kill his main characters because he doesn't want undeserved sympathy. I mean anyone can have a character, develop them over 8-9 chapters, make the audience fall in love with them, then just kill em off and have fans saying it's "an epic death" and "incredibly sad".



Ah, thanks, I've started on One Piece (up to chapter 117) and was curious why that was. Personally, I thought it was because killing a crew member would be redundant, since Luffy would just have to get a new one for his goal of 10 crewmembers (although Luffy might refuse to replace him/her, not quite sure how he'd react to that). I think Oda's being a little judgemental though. Character deaths can be poorly-written and unimportant, but they can add weight and suspense to the story. You can definitely go overboard (24 Season 5, anyone?), but a good guy dying here and there is often beneficial to the story.

That being said, I do think good guys don't need to die in One Piece, because of the "replacement crewmember" reasoning and the fact that Luffy isn't the type to kill his opponents, but other series that are more suited towards such storytelling should (*cough* Bleach, kill someone off already, dammit! *cough*) or the audience can't have any reason to keep reading (I mean, if the good guys never die, we can safely assume they defeat the antagonist and all survive. Not much suspense, LOL)

I really don't think the series should be compared, at least I'm enjoying where both are going so far (glad we're back to seeing goofy Tobi, and I loved Luffy and Zoro fighting each other). I do think some of the reasoning for why either series "sucks" is quite poor though. I've already said why I don't think good guys need to die in OP, and the fights get better as it goes on so don't judge it by the earlier fights. And as for Naruto not exploring every area of its world, who gives a *beep*? Star Wars, LOTR, Harry Potter, etc. didn't explore every area in their respective worlds, yet I rarely hear people complain about that. Also, I don't mind Sasuke winning a few fights, as at least it makes him a rival I can take more seriously (I like Vegeta, but man did he get his ass kicked most of the time)

Besides, if we're talking best shonen series, I think Fullmetal Alchemist pwns them all, with Death Note as a strong second.  I mean, Lust vs. Mustang/Havoc had me far more in suspense than any fight in Naruto/OP so far, for example.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Apr 2, 2008)

Seiko said:


> At least the characters in Naruto get injured and some of them die.
> 
> Isn't the OP main character invincible? So exciting.





You should really look into OP before you jump to ignorant conclusions.


----------



## KLoWn (Apr 2, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> They've been in the fucking manga for nearly a year now. What is Juugo? Wow, a source for the Curse Seal. Such a massive spoiler in the story right? Karin? She obviously isn't a female version of Sasuke who has a whore induced version of Part 1 Sakura's personality? Really she doesn't?


Spoiler in the story? If you mean that it was interesting to get to know from where CS originated, then yes.
So she wants to suck Sasuke's balls, how does that make her a clone?


Mirai Gohan said:


> Lol " SASUKE-KUN YOUR SO AWESOME! SASUKE-KUN, LETS MAKE LOVE! NO WAY SASUKE-KUUUUUUUUUUUN CAN LOSE TO DEIDARA!
> 
> You make me lol at your deliberate attempt at ignorance.


How old are you?


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Apr 2, 2008)

Yea Luffy is so invincible getting impaled bye Croc and all! Like omg!


----------



## Fang (Apr 2, 2008)

KLoWn said:


> Spoiler in the story? If you mean that it was interesting to get to know from where CS originated, then yes.
> So she wants to suck Sasuke's balls, how does that make her a clone?



How many mangas have you read? How many girls flock to Sasuke's cock? Really? Do you enjoy reading that? How important was CS2 in Part 2 of Naruto? Not at all. So aside from the fact that she's exactly like Part 1 Sakura and Ino's personality...



> How old are you?



What does this have to do with the discussion at hand? Nothing at all.


----------



## Marte1980 (Apr 2, 2008)

Seiko said:


> At least the characters in Naruto get injured and some of them die.
> 
> Isn't the OP main character invincible? So exciting.


He lost against Crocodile 2 times, nearly dying both times. He was nearly losing an dying against Lucci. He utterly lost against Aokiji. He was spared afterwards. He could have been killed by Kuma after having beat Moria, but he was saved because Zoro(and Sanji) sacrificed himself.etc.etc.


----------



## Fang (Apr 2, 2008)

Not to forget the ass-beating Lucci gave him in Water Seven and Enies Lobby...


----------



## Ark 2.0 (Apr 2, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Not to forget the ass-beating Lucci gave him in Water Seven and Enies Lobby...



argh...and how he was almost killed by him wille in chibi mode...argh, btw did notice it was ye TWF...argh


----------



## KLoWn (Apr 2, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> How many mangas have you read? How many girls flock to Sasuke's cock? Really? Do you enjoy reading that? How important was CS2 in Part 2 of Naruto? Not at all. So aside from the fact that she's exactly like Part 1 Sakura and Ino's personality...


I've read enough i assure you.
So Sasuke has always been the "good looking" one in Naruto, what did you expect? To have her run from him?
And i would'nt say it's all that important to know where CS originated from, interesting nontheless.
If we hadn't gotten to know that then you would've complained about that, it's endless to haters like you.


Mirai Gohan said:


> What does this have to do with the discussion at hand? Nothing at all.


The way you write it has everything to do with this discussion.


> Lol " SASUKE-KUN YOUR SO AWESOME! SASUKE-KUN, LETS MAKE LOVE! NO WAY SASUKE-KUUUUUUUUUUUN CAN LOSE TO DEIDARA!


Stop acting like a retard, seriously 
So how old?


----------



## Ark 2.0 (Apr 2, 2008)

KLoWn said:


> Stop acting like a retard, seriously
> So how old?




argh...he is using iron knee, if you notice he is trying toi act like a steriotipical hardcore naruto fan sufuring from the librarys reverse linja law field...argh


----------



## Fang (Apr 2, 2008)

KLoWn said:


> I've read enough i assure you.



Obviously not.



> So Sasuke has always been the "good looking" one in Naruto, what did you expect? To have her run from him?
> And i would'nt say it's all that important to know where CS originated from, interesting nontheless.



First off, your blatantly wrong. Every single female has wanted Sasuke's nutsack since the start of the manga. The fact that Ino and Sakura got over this in Part 2 and Karin showcases the *exact same* fucking personality should be a eye-opener for you.



> If we hadn't gotten to know that then you would've complained about that, it's endless to haters like you.



And obviously your crying over it because you can't stand the fact that no gives a shit to compliment shit like that to begin with that.



> The way you write it has everything to do with this discussion.



Really, because you still haven't addressed my points. Should I start pulling out scans of how Karin is the most worthless carbon-copy clone of Part 1 Sakura and Ino?

Do you really require that much of evidence to show how silly your reasonings are? Or to suffice, your lack of them?




> Stop acting like a retard, seriously
> So how old?



I'm acting like a retard? Your the one who can't even debate properly and cries over the fact that people don't like the fact the main character of the manga that the series is titled after has little to no importance in the past seventy chapters.

So, I take it, more cop outs from you?


----------



## Ark 2.0 (Apr 2, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Obviously not.
> 
> First off, your blatantly wrong. Every single female has wanted Sasuke's nutsack since the start of the manga. The fact that Ino and Sakura got over this in Part 2 and Karin showcases the *exact same* fucking personality should be a eye-opener for you.
> 
> ...



argh...you forgot to state one thing lad, kishi does not know how to make climatic battles...argh


----------



## Matariki (Apr 2, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> First off, your blatantly wrong. Every single female has wanted Sasuke's nutsack since the start of the manga. The fact that Ino and Sakura got over this in Part 2 and Karin showcases the *exact same* fucking personality should be a eye-opener for you.



Why does it bother you as long as Sasuke is clueless about it?

You can't deny team Hebi is funny to watch.


----------



## Ark 2.0 (Apr 2, 2008)

Seiko said:


> Why does it bother you as long as Sasuke is clueless about it?
> 
> You can't deny team Hebi is funny to watch.



argh...a guy with multiple personality, a homicidal maniac, a girl and and a self rightious guy...argh, i fail to se ethe humour...argh


----------



## Fang (Apr 2, 2008)

Sasuke can see chakra inside his body
Link removed
Link removed
Link removed
Link removed

Such an amazing and dynamic female character who is so radically different from the personalities of Sasuke's fangirls in Part 1 like Sakura and Ino.

I'm awed and wooed by such a rebellious and innovative female character like Karin of Team Hebi.


----------



## Supa Swag (Apr 2, 2008)

Seiko said:


> Why does it bother you as long as Sasuke is clueless about it?
> 
> You can't deny team Hebi is funny to watch.



Hebi is the epitome of fail. Unfortunately that includes Suigetsu too. He's from the Mist, yet wilted like a schoolgirl bitch.

Juugo and Karin need to just die, seriously.


----------



## KLoWn (Apr 2, 2008)

*Edit*
You know what, fuck it.
This ain't going anywhere and im not spending my evening arguing this shit with you.
I withdraw

Take it as a win.


----------



## Fang (Apr 2, 2008)

Let's recap, Suigetsu is lame as hell and can steal Zabuza's sword from his grave. And Karin is nothing else but a copy of whore version of Sakura and Ino and sits on the sidelines going, " Yeah Sasuke-Kun is the best and most awesome person! He can not be beaten! He is so strong and hunky! His injuries make him awesome and cool! ".

Team Hebi is so awesome.



KLoWn said:


> *Edit*
> You know what, fuck it.
> This ain't going anywhere and im not spending my evening arguing this shit with you.
> I withdraw
> ...



Good to know, because you were never able to match any evidence other then your highly inflated opinion in this argument.

Your concession is accepted, once more.


----------



## Ark 2.0 (Apr 2, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Let's recap, Suigetsu is lame as hell and can steal Zabuza's sword from his grave. And Karin is nothing else but a copy of whore version of Sakura and Ino and sits on the sidelines going, " Yeah Sasuke-Kun is the best and most awesome person! He can not be beaten! He is so strong and hunky! His injuries make him awesome and cool! ".
> 
> Team Hebi is so awesome.
> 
> ...



argh...i smell a bad sitcom in the making...argh


----------



## Morpheus (Apr 2, 2008)

After the latest Naruto chapters (more like, after Part 2), do you honestly expect any serious response will say Naruto?

Pointless thread is pointless.


----------



## Segan (Apr 2, 2008)

Agmaster said:


> As one of the few travelers of more than one subforum here, I recently discovered that a debate had begun in the OP section.  The classic tale of pirates and ninjas.  But it was bias.  So painfully bias.  In the interest of fairness, I've decided to present this same question here.  The reason this is in library is because going by manga will give people the most content to discuss the boons and banes of these series.
> 
> And so I quote Jetstorm, because taking credit for this is ...unjust.
> 
> ...


I'm just glad that Sasuke vs. Itachi is over. Those were definitely not the best fights Kishi portrayed.

There have been some good moments with Jiraiya and his last battles against Pain, especially with the Hermit mode.

Other than that, there's not much. There's always one feeling that remains when I read the chapters. And that's blankness. I don't feel any touch. And with this, the darker and deadly theme Naruto was supposed to have in part 2 totally falls flat.

Totally.

And One Piece never ceases to show creativity and to prove that the author has kept the touch he had from the first chapter. There's no need to bash the art, because that's not why OP is so popular. It's the way plot and characters are designed.

Oda is, unlike Kishi, a world-class mangaka. Hands down. That guy knows how to tell a story.



Seiko said:


> At least the characters in Naruto get injured and some of them die.
> 
> Isn't the OP main character invincible? So exciting.


Luffy lost a few times. He was hurt considerably more often than just a few times.

And since Oda's purposefully twisting the sense of realism in OP and making fun of itself, the fact that he never kills off people in the present story doesn't hurt the series at all.


----------



## Morpheus (Apr 2, 2008)

And let's not forget one thing folks, OP lacks emos 
Well, maybe Duval?


----------



## Fang (Apr 2, 2008)

Don't ever bother responding to Seiko's post, he's never read or watched One Piece. As for One Piece, plenty people are killed, Nami's adopted mother, the pirates who attacked Sir Croc when he was introduced in Alabasta, ect...


----------



## Ark 2.0 (Apr 2, 2008)

Morpheus said:


> And let's not forget one thing folks, OP lacks emos
> Well, maybe Duval?



argh...duval will probably be awesome, like an anti-sanji or something..a.rgh


----------



## Segan (Apr 2, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Don't ever bother responding to Seiko's post, he's never read or watched One Piece. As for One Piece, plenty people are killed, Nami's adopted mother, the pirates who attacked Sir Croc when he was introduced in Alabasta, ect...


No people were killed in the *present *story, that's what would bug most people that argue over this.


----------



## Fang (Apr 2, 2008)

Lucci killed Nero, that wasn't in a flashback.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Apr 2, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Don't ever bother responding to Seiko's post, he's never read or watched One Piece. As for One Piece, plenty people are killed, Nami's adopted mother, the pirates who attacked Sir Croc when he was introduced in Alabasta, ect...



"Oda is an amateur mangaka and Zoro is a bland character"

Bye Seiko taken from a PM.


----------



## Fang (Apr 2, 2008)

Yes, his PM's are lolz. You should've seen him attempting to troll the OP manga section on the Duval thread.


----------



## Morpheus (Apr 2, 2008)

Kweck said:


> "Oda is an amateur mangaka and Zoro is a bland character"
> 
> Bye Seiko taken from a PM.



I knew he was just trolling but.. wow...


----------



## Ark 2.0 (Apr 2, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Yes, his PM's are lolz. You should've seen him attempting to troll the OP manga section on the Duval thread.



argh...i stills ay duval will be awesome...argh


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Apr 2, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Yes, his PM's are lolz. You should've seen him attempting to troll the OP manga section on the Duval thread.



I think i remember that. Was lulz for sure.

Segan your post was awesome, really hit the nail on the head there m8.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Apr 2, 2008)

Morpheus said:


> I knew he was just trolling but.. wow...



Yea probably. I think i got it because i called the Uchihafight a lol, genjutsumatch.


----------



## Segan (Apr 2, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Lucci killed Nero, that wasn't in a flashback.


Hmm...the CP9 newbie? Didn't he appear in on of these cover stories?


----------



## Ark 2.0 (Apr 2, 2008)

Kweck said:


> Yea probably. I think i got it because i called the Uchihafight a lol, genjutsumatch.



argh...but it was....argh


----------



## Fang (Apr 2, 2008)

Segan said:


> Hmm...the CP9 newbie? Didn't he appear in on of these cover stories?



Everyone did but him. I remember it showing Blueno carrying Lucci, Kaku and Jyabura and possibly Kalifa.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Apr 2, 2008)

Ark 10.3a said:


> argh...but it was....argh



Yup. Not to mention considering the hype it got and the importance it had been forshadowed to have it failed so miserably.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Apr 2, 2008)

Mirai and Kweck-your my kinda people.

but what about the propossed poll?


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Apr 2, 2008)

Lobolover said:


> Mirai and Kweck-your my kinda people.



Well now, thank you 

I have really enjoyed following One Piece since i started December last year. 

Better late than never 

Am happy to know that there exist such a long running awesome Shounen that i can follow for many years to come when the other series i am following have ended way before.

May it keep being entertaining for a long time to go as its bye far the longest series i enjoyed.


----------



## komodomitsu (Apr 2, 2008)

Well from what Ive been seeing here, some of us are starting to compare the abilities and characteristics of the characters that were made given to them by the writers, which is kinda dumb.
It is the quality of writing that should be compared according to GENRE.
These two shows connot be compared but can only be compared to how well they do their job. 

But I have not come across anything like Naruto, Ive never seen so much detail in the minds of characters in a comic like Ives seen in this. 

Thats why Im going to beat it.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Apr 2, 2008)

like youre going to shun it,ignore it,surpass it?"beat it" can have many meanings.

ps:have you even read into OP?


----------



## komodomitsu (Apr 2, 2008)

Lobolover said:


> like youre going to shun it,ignore it,surpass it?"beat it" can have many meanings.
> 
> ps:have you even read into OP?



I mean Im going to surpass Kishimoto, create a manga better than his.

And yeah Ive read some.


----------



## The Doctor (Apr 2, 2008)

One Piece is just brilliant.

Chapter 398, "Proclamation of War", is a really mature one. When Luffy burns the World Government flag you really can't think that you are reading a child story.Along with that, Robin's past, the secret that lies behind the ponygliph and the fact that historians are hunted are others symbolisms really difficult to understand. The politics and the sensation of anarchism presented in this story is really strong. Now think that this story is for kids. Oda were able to turn such complex matters in a child story. That is just too damn difficult. 

Another thing that I find interesting is his art. Yeah, it's totally different. It's rather unconvencional. But what I find brilliant about it, is that his draws are reflexes of the story. The story is exagerated and so is his art. Also, the look of each character is a reflex of his personality. Please notice that Luffy doesn't wear a common pirate outfit. He wears sandals and shorts, like a fisherman,and that is a reflex of his anarchich personality.
That's only the tip of the iceberg. There are thousands of brilliant things in OP.

Things like these are impossible to find in Naruto. 
That's why, for me, OP is better than Naruto


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Apr 2, 2008)

full agreeance,but a note-anarchism is writen with an I.but dont let that stop you.


----------



## The Doctor (Apr 2, 2008)

lol thanks  I didn't know how to write that in english


----------



## Emperor Time (Apr 2, 2008)

I found out about One Piece first and thus like One Piece very slightly more than Naruto.


----------



## C-Moon (Apr 3, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Sasuke can see chakra inside his body
> last 2-3 panels
> last 2-3 panels
> last 2-3 panels
> ...


 
I even prefer Hinamori to Karin. Bet you can't say that with a straight face.


Morpheus said:


> And let's not forget one thing folks, OP lacks emos
> Well, maybe Duval?


No emo I know of has ever had a face like that.


----------



## Taleran (Apr 3, 2008)

Segan said:


> No people were killed in the *present *story, that's what would bug most people that argue over this.




its in the manga its part of the story flashback or no


----------



## Zephos (Apr 3, 2008)

Teresa Brasil said:


> One Piece is just brilliant.
> 
> Chapter 398, "Proclamation of War", is a really mature one. When Luffy burns the World Government flag you really can't think that you are reading a child story.Along with that, Robin's past, the secret that lies behind the ponygliph and the fact that historians are hunted are others symbolisms really difficult to understand. The politics and the sensation of anarchism presented in this story is really strong. Now think that this story is for kids. Oda were able to turn such complex matters in a child story. That is just too damn difficult.



Sounds just like a Pre-Teen reading level.
Which is exactly what SJ is aimed at.

I don't see what your getting all excited about.


----------



## The Doctor (Apr 3, 2008)

International politics and bashing United Nations is a pre-teen reading level???
That's new for me


----------



## Segan (Apr 3, 2008)

Teresa Brasil said:


> International politics and bashing United Nations is a pre-teen reading level???
> That's new for me


Politics is quite a bit more complicated than Oda portrayed it in Enies Lobby...

Quite a bit.


----------



## The Doctor (Apr 3, 2008)

Of course it's different!! This story is for kids!!
What is brilliant about Oda is that he makes a complex theme readable. He isn't trying to make kids understand politics but he is trying to make them forget about *common sense*. When kids read OP they are seeing some philosophical stuffs like "absolute justice and truth" and "fighting the opressors".
Kids are using their brain while reading OP. 
That is the brilliant shit about it.

Dunno if I made my self clear since I don't have a good english.
Think about OP as a metaphore. 
Kids might not understand that now. But in the future, they'll.
Putting critical sense in kids.. that's not something you can see in Naruto manga


----------



## Zephos (Apr 3, 2008)

Teresa Brasil said:


> International politics and bashing United Nations is a pre-teen reading level???
> That's new for me



It's not even up near the top in terms of complex pre-teen works.
One Piece has very simplified politics. There's nothing there a 9-12 year old should be below grasping.


----------



## Vyse (Apr 3, 2008)

Charakter wise: 
One Piece>Naruto

Plot wise:
One Piece=Naruto

Emotion wise:
One Piece<Naruto


----------



## Zephos (Apr 3, 2008)

Teresa Brasil said:


> Of course it's different!! This story is for kids!!
> What is brilliant about Oda is that he makes a complex theme readable. He isn't trying to make kids understand politics but he is trying to make them forget about *common sense*. When kids read OP they are seeing some philosophical stuffs like "absolute justice and truth" and "fighting the opressors".
> Kids are using their brain while reading OP.
> That is the brilliant shit about it.




There's nothing complex about "fighting opressors" conceptually speaking. That's the most basic plot line there is.

The "Absolute Justice" thing isn't nearly so big a deal as yoru making it out to be, especially considering One Piece mostly suggests it rather than explores it.


----------



## The Doctor (Apr 3, 2008)

Zephos said:


> It's not even up near the top in terms of complex pre-teen works.
> One Piece has very simplified politics. There's nothing there a 9-12 year old should be below grasping.


yeah.. i don't know any 9~12 y.o. who truly understands anarchism, dictatorship, the needs of a historian for society...
But then again, as I said, that's what is brilliant about OP.. he made all those stuffs simple, in order make a 10 y.o. understand that. He is making them get interested in stuffs like that.


Zephos said:


> There's nothing complex about "fighting opressors" conceptually speaking. That's the most basic plot line there is.


The complex thing about it, is to make ppl wanting to fight them. When  kids sees their favorite hero( or one of them) fighting the one who opresses his friends and his kind, the kid will probably grows with that on mind and won't accept beeing opressed so easily.


Zephos said:


> The "Absolute Justice" thing isn't nearly so big a deal as yoru making it out to be, especially considering One Piece mostly suggests it rather than explores it.


Then again, things need to be soft. If Oda explored it too much, kids wouldn't like it. But be sure that Oda return and comment "absolute justice" again, and might get a little deeper into it.
And "absolute justice" is a big thing. Interprete it as "absolute truth" and think about it. You'll go in way of thinking that will make you ask yourself "Are the laws that I follow good or bad for me?" and other kinda of stuff... Although you'll need to think about it for some time until you'll be able to "see" all those things...

Damn.. if you were brazilian things would be easier for me to explain...


----------



## Zephos (Apr 3, 2008)

> yeah.. i don't know any 9~12 y.o. who truly understands anarchism, dictatorship, the needs of a historian for society...



And I doubt your an expert on child psychology. One Piece isn't really exploring any of these concepts. They're there in thier most absic form. But they're in ALOT of children's stories.



> The complex thing about it, is to make ppl wanting to fight them. When  kids sees their favorite hero( or one of them) fighting the one who opresses his friends and his kind, the kid will probably grows with that on mind and won't accept beeing opressed so easily.



That's an unbeleivably simple concept. That's below the pre-tenn level.



> And "absolute justice" is a big thing. Interprete it as "absolute truth" and think about it. You'll go in way of thinking that will make you ask yourself "Are the laws that I follow good or bad for me?" and other kinda of stuff... Although you'll need to think about it for some time until you'll be able to "see" all those things...



Are you suggesting children don't understand the concept of challenging authority?
haha, if only.



> Damn.. if you were brazilian things would be easier for me to explain..



There's no problem with your language. I know what your saying.


----------



## The Doctor (Apr 3, 2008)

Zephos said:


> And I doubt your an expert on child psychology. One Piece isn't really exploring any of these concepts. They're there in thier most absic form. But they're in ALOT of children's stories.


I'm not expert on child psychology but I do have an interest about it. In Brazil, kids only see stories where capitalists are the good ppl, the consume society is the major thing in humanity and that obeying the system is best thing you can do in your life. We do not get the other side of politics for kids. Please show me stories where i get more of those concepts (this is an ask for help. Not being sarcastic here).


Zephos said:


> That's an unbeleivably simple concept. That's below the pre-tenn level.


As said above, in Brazil, defying the sistem is something not very simple. Our history makes the exploration over the poor ppl too strong and the brazilian ppl are just too alienated.


Zephos said:


> Are you suggesting children don't understand the concept of challenging authority?
> haha, if only.


They don't. They defy because most of times they are being just selfish or stuborn. They dont use logical arguements. Not even the most simple ones.


Zephos said:


> There's no problem with your language. I know what your saying.


There is a huge problem in my language because I can't use my whole vocabulary. Therefore my arguments tends to be weaker than they should cuz I don't wright everything I'm thinking cuz I don't know how to put my thoughts on the post.

My arguements are based on what I see in my society. Can't say about the others because, unfortunatelly, I have never left Brazil...


----------



## Batman (Apr 3, 2008)

I think that Naruto is Better than One Piece, but just barely. It's more my personal taste of style of show, rather than anything positive or negative the mangakas has done. But I think that Naruto had more "cool" in it.


----------



## Zephos (Apr 3, 2008)

> I'm not expert on child psychology but I do have an interest about it. In Brazil, kids only see stories where capitalists are the good ppl, the consume society is the major thing in humanity and that obeying the system is best thing you can do in your life. We do not get the other side of politics for kids. Please show me stories where i get more of those concepts (this is an ask for help. Not being sarcastic here).



What does captalism have to do with this? I thought you were talking about dictatorships? For that, jeez, endless examples. The Lion King for one.



> As said above, in Brazil, defying the sistem is something not very simple. Our history makes the exploration over the poor ppl too strong and the brazilian ppl are just too alienated.



Than this is a cultural difference. Japan has had a long history of dictatorships being overthrown. From the Warring states, to the Meiji, to the WW2 regime. For guys like me in the US underdog tales are common place (regardless of many peoples actual brownosing of our government). 



> They don't. They defy because most of times they are being just selfish or stuborn. They dont use logical arguements. Not even the most simple ones.



Which is really not so different from Luffy. He isn't a revolutionary going against a corrupt regime, he declared war on them because "YOU WERE MEAN TO MY FRIEND", or something similar.



> There is a huge problem in my language because I can't use my whole vocabulary. Therefore my arguments tends to be weaker than they should cuz I don't wright everything I'm thinking cuz I don't know how to put my thoughts on the post.



You don't have to use bigger words to get a point across, mostly.
It's actually refreshing to have things simple.



> My arguements are based on what I see in my society. Can't say about the others because, unfortunatelly, I have never left Brazil...



Hmm.
It must be more interesting to you than. 
I don't think it's on a higher comprehension level still, but culturally speaking it must mean something more to you. That's kind of cool.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Apr 3, 2008)

Zephos-it was the big buildup for Akainu-cause thats when were gonna get back to Absolute Justice in its most extreme form.

zephos-no,he declared war on them,because they abducted his nakama and intended to kill them in "whatever horrible manner" (viz Lucci) ,saying that no one can opose the highest authority of the world, when there is no one,who could challenge it and live,etc.Theese things,after all that "you practicaly dont even exist before this great flag!" shit (I liked it,but you know what I mean) was just a rational reaction,much more understandable then just,well,"blowing it in de shit". EL is one of the most mature and briliant stories ive ever read and if you cant see the psychological efects of the finest nuances (they rule the world,they acuse and judge,therefore,they cannot loose (like Tom said,before being taken away to die),etc.),then,well,thats the way.


----------



## Zephos (Apr 3, 2008)

> Zephos-it was the big buildup for Akainu-cause thats when were gonna get back to Absolute Justice in its most extreme form.







> zephos-no,he declared war on them,because they abducted his nakama and intended to kill them in "whatever horrible manner" (viz Lucci) ,saying that no one can opose the highest authority of the world, when there is no one,who could challenge it and live,etc.Theese things,after all that "you practicaly dont even exist before this great flag!" shit (I liked it,but you know what I mean) was just a rational reaction,much more understandable then just,well,"blowing it in de shit".



And despite all that Luffy was declaring war beacuse of "LEAVE MY FRIENDS ALONE, I DON"T CARE WHO U ARE."



> EL is one of the most mature and briliant stories ive ever read and if you cant see the psychological efects of the finest nuances (they rule the world,they acuse and judge,therefore,they cannot loose (like Tom said,before being taken away to die),etc.),then,well,thats the way.



Go outside.


----------



## Fang (Apr 3, 2008)

Akainu is a sadist.

That's cool.


----------



## Detonator_Fan (Apr 3, 2008)

I like Naruto better than One Piece, I guess. Mostly because in my opinion Naruto has better characters.
Nami and Nico Robin are hotter than any Naruto character and Sanji is a badass but I am not a big fan of DragonBall-like personalities (that I see in Luffy and Zoro).
The Skypea saga also didn't cut it. It was almost a filler saga...

---


Teresa Brasil said:


> I'm not expert on child psychology but I do have an interest about it. In Brazil, kids only see stories where capitalists are the good ppl, the consume society is the major thing in humanity and that obeying the system is best thing you can do in your life. We do not get the other side of politics for kids. Please show me stories where i get more of those concepts (this is an ask for help. Not being sarcastic here).
> 
> As said above, in Brazil, defying the sistem is something not very simple. Our history makes the exploration over the poor ppl too strong and the brazilian ppl are just too alienated.
> 
> ...




You are kidding, right?

Ps: I'm brazilian too.


----------



## Morpheus (Apr 4, 2008)

Yes so Sanji is badass and Zoro and Luffy are not?

The main thing that puts One Piece miles above Naruto for me is simple: Creativity & Originality.
No emo and boring villains, no bishies, no cliche storylines.
*Unlike *some other manga called Naruto.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Apr 4, 2008)

Zephos-yes,saying that he doesnt care who it is,as long as they hurt his friends, hes gonna kick their asses.That isnt good at all.


----------



## Shoddragon (Apr 19, 2008)

one piece fake oO? devil fruits seem more plausible than bijus being put into babies at birth and stuff.

I mean the whole " artifact/item that grants powers if obtained" cliche has been around for centuries, possibly thousands or even since the dawn of man has there been legends of items that could give users great power. although almost none could be said to have anything to do with food.

The Devil fruits are a great idea. they take these legends and make them creative. I mean things that grant you the abilities of rubber or wax without making them lame? where else do you see it. I still enjoy both however.

I do like the idea of a giant mass of energy in teh form of a demon dwelling within me, unleashing power and helping me to save people and defeat enemies.

I don't think people should be put down or flamed for whether they like naruto or one piece, but criticism is different. you can say, " well I think naruto is bad or not as good because *insert INTELLIGENT response here* ".

i do not like however how people think one piece is a kids show. if someone would be so kind as to link the walk to arlong park please.


----------



## Agmaster (Apr 19, 2008)

God this thrtead is still alive?  I thought someone finally killed it.  Yet another flaw of NF.  They don't remove problems, they just sweep them around.


----------



## Fang (Apr 19, 2008)

Morpheus said:


> Yes so Sanji is badass and Zoro and Luffy are not?
> 
> The main thing that puts One Piece miles above Naruto for me is simple: Creativity & Originality.
> No emo and boring villains, no bishies, no cliche storylines.
> *Unlike *some other manga called Naruto.



Oh yes, and no skimping on the development of the main character. Or side-tracking his own progress by having a secondary character take over for nearly four volumes worth of story.


----------



## Shoddragon (Apr 20, 2008)

Agmaster said:


> God this thrtead is still alive?  I thought someone finally killed it.  Yet another flaw of NF.  They don't remove problems, they just sweep them around.



if it was closed then it would be done.


----------



## RamzaBeoulve (Apr 20, 2008)

i like one piece


----------



## Sylar (Apr 25, 2008)

I can't believe this hasn't been posted yet.

Ladies and gentlemen THIS is what Kishi could give his fans for the most hyped fight in the manga.



Aren't you impressed? 

Any and all Naruto > OP arguements are officially null and void.


----------



## AbnormallyNormal (Apr 25, 2008)

i like one piece more because it has greater variety of characters, themes, and there is a more solid and gratifying feeling of plot progression. also the story is bigger and more dramatic. naruto's only advantages are perhaps a more serious tone and more realistic depictions of violence


----------



## Amatsu (Apr 26, 2008)

Sylar said:


> I can't believe this hasn't been posted yet.
> 
> Ladies and gentlemen THIS is what Kishi could give his fans for the most hyped fight in the manga.
> 
> ...



hahaha that comic was win.


----------



## Gary (Apr 26, 2008)

Sasuke said:


> Naruto is better.
> 
> Sasuke>>The entire OP universe



sasuketard any other tard


----------



## Amatsu (Apr 26, 2008)

pffft Sasuke's h4x means nothing in the One Pieceverse.


----------



## tictactoc (Apr 26, 2008)

Sylar said:


> I can't believe this hasn't been posted yet.
> 
> Ladies and gentlemen THIS is what Kishi could give his fans for the most hyped fight in the manga.
> 
> ...



Heeeelllllo genius, you know we could do that to any manga existing in this little world ?


----------



## Sylar (Apr 26, 2008)

No you really really couldn't.

Nothing can compare to the travesty that was Sasuke vs. Itachi.


----------



## Random Nobody (Apr 27, 2008)

Sylar said:


> I can't believe this hasn't been posted yet.
> 
> Ladies and gentlemen THIS is what Kishi could give his fans for the most hyped fight in the manga.
> 
> ...



Threads over people, go home.



tictactoc said:


> Heeeelllllo genius, you know we could do that to any manga existing in this little world ?



Prove it.


----------



## Aldric (Apr 27, 2008)

Can you really picture Kishimoto creating such a wide array of unique and amazing characters like what Oda just did in the latest chapter? And we haven't even seen Rayleigh, the strongest bounty hunters, the high level Marines and the Admiral.

Just as a reminder, the last characters created by Kishimoto were TEAM SNAKE


----------



## Vault (Apr 27, 2008)

Aldric said:


> Can you really picture Kishimoto creating such a wide array of unique and amazing characters like what Oda just did in the latest chapter? And we haven't even seen Rayleigh, the strongest bounty hunters, the high level Marines and the Admiral.
> 
> Just as a reminder, the last characters created by Kishimoto were TEAM SNAKE



lol team fodder


----------



## Aldric (Apr 27, 2008)

Team lets take part 1 Sakura, Zabuza and Android 16, ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) them up and voila, new characters


----------



## tictactoc (Apr 27, 2008)

Aldric said:


> Can you really picture Kishimoto creating such a wide array of unique and amazing characters like what Oda just did in the latest chapter? And we haven't even seen Rayleigh, the strongest bounty hunters, the high level Marines and the Admiral.
> 
> Just as a reminder, the last characters created by Kishimoto were TEAM SNAKE



Watch them becoming fodder for fucking Nami .
Nah they're cool, last time I was interested in OP was at the beginning of the Enies lobby arc, before the whole CP9 fiasco.

And yeah you could do that to any fights in any mangas, however the haters of those mangas are not THAT desesperate to ridiculize them. 
Piece of advice, if you don't like a manga, DON'T READ IT


----------



## Aldric (Apr 27, 2008)

tictactoc said:


> Piece of advice, if you don't like a manga, DON'T READ IT



But it's so bad it's hilarious

You want me to be deprived of such a great source of unintentional humor?

You MONSTER


----------



## Sasuke_fanboy (Apr 27, 2008)

Sasuke's design > all designs in One Piece.


----------



## Glued (Apr 27, 2008)

To Sasuke Fanboy, have you ever played as Jin Kazama in Tekken


----------



## Sasuke_fanboy (Apr 27, 2008)

Ben Grimm said:
			
		

> To Sasuke Fanboy, have you ever played as Jin Kazama in Tekken



Jin Kazama = shit. I only ever play as Xiaooo(sp? ) the chinese chick.
any way 2d fighters > 3d fighters so I don't play much 3d fighters. btw, wat does this have to do with OP Vs Naruto


----------



## Glued (Apr 27, 2008)

If you look at the tekken story line, there is a lot of similarities betweent he Uchiha and Mishimas. Jin like Sasuke, also involved in family squabbles, looks a lot like Sasuke as well. His devil tatoos are also similar to Sasuke's CS1 form.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Apr 27, 2008)

s-fanboy-trolling on prying on naturards?my reaction thereto depends on it.


----------



## tictactoc (Apr 27, 2008)

Aldric said:


> But it's so bad it's hilarious
> 
> You want me to be deprived of such a great source of unintentional humor?
> 
> You MONSTER



Well at least you're not as bad as the people on this board:

GuYS DID U RED TEH LAST CHAPTA ???////??? IT SUCKSSSSSSS I SWAIR I4M GOING TO STOP NAURAUTO IF THE NEX ONE SUK LIK THAT

"100 chapters later"

LOLOLOL OKE LAST 1 AY M READING

"50 chapters later"
FAK U KISHI U SUK ??? mad AY STOP !!!!!???

"2 chapters later"
HAY GUYS OKE I RED THE LAST CHAPS I MEESSED TOU SEA IF IT GET BETTA BUT IT STIL SUK ?????111 FUK KISHHEE !!!!!!


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Apr 27, 2008)

isn't that a bit exagerated                              ?


----------



## Fang (Apr 27, 2008)

Considering that Kishimoto doesn't  know how to honestly manage multiple characters at once or actually develope any sort of personality for them other then Sasuke's at the moment since the Immortal's Arc, yeah, he has a point about how Kishimoto is severely lacking when you compare One Piece to Naruto.


----------



## theshad (Apr 27, 2008)

tictactoc said:


> Heeeelllllo genius, you know we could do that to any manga existing in this little world ?



No you couldn't. That was quite possibly one of the worst fights I have ever read. Add into it the amount of hype that it was getting and it was complete shit.


----------



## Fang (Apr 27, 2008)

Genjutsu aspect of the fight was the shittiest portion of that shit infested battle.

" OMG GAT GENJUTSU "

" NO I HEREZ "

" HAHAH PWNED "

" NO U!"

Pathetic beyond belief.


----------



## p-lou (Apr 27, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Genjutsu aspect of the fight was the shittiest portion of that shit infested battle.
> 
> " OMG GAT GENJUTSU "
> 
> ...



I couldn't agree more.

The problem with Naruto is that it is such a poorly managed manga.  I don't think anyone here would deny that it had a pretty good start and was still decent through the Chuunin exams.  Kishi then just fell in love with the sharingan and it's been downhill ever since.  He changed the main character into an annoying whiner and completely abandons the themes he set up in the beginning.  Now, as Aldric said, it's just so hilariously bad that I can't stop reading it.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Apr 27, 2008)

Lobolover said:


> isn't that a bit exagerated                              ?



Extremely. I'm just going to say, that Naruto doesn't seem to be getting any better, unfortunately. I feel it is due to this overexcessive focus on Uchihas in some poorly contrived attempt to keep Sasuke relevant to the story...he's a Gary Stu and hardly an interesting character. What's worse is that so many interesting (or potentially interesting) things/characters/etc. have been pushed aside, forgotten, or even sacrificed due to the focus on Sasuke and Uchihas in general. It's really sad. 

As for One Piece, I've always remained a constant interest in it. I'm no good at prasing, so I don't have much to say about it that I haven't already said. Oda is simply better at developing his characters and featuring side characters than Kishi, as well as exploring and revealing more about the expansive world he has created.


----------



## The Doctor (Apr 27, 2008)

LOL
These Sasutards...
Go read HunterxHunter and you will see all the bases for Naruto.
The difference between Sasuke and Kurapika is...well... you'll see it for yourselves..
At least Oda is original.


----------



## Aldric (Apr 27, 2008)

Seiko said:


> Seeing how Oda can't draw









                     .


----------



## The Doctor (Apr 27, 2008)

I can only say this:


----------



## p-lou (Apr 27, 2008)

You forgot the crow Aldric.


----------



## Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki (Apr 27, 2008)

I guess you're one of those who believe the face is perfectly symmetrical, eh? xD

Anyway. Both Oda and Kishimoto can draw, just that they are good at drawing different things. Kishimoto is better at environments and perspective, while Oda is better at composing a good looking environment or scene.

Oda's style of drawing people is also vastly different from what most people are used to, so it'll take a while to appreciate it.


----------



## Batman (Apr 27, 2008)

The last time Naruto was real interesting was during the Shikamaru Hidan Asuma stuff. That was a breath of fresh air, and it was cool as well. Then Naruto came one shotted it to hell.

The Sasuke Itatchi fight wasn't nearly as bad as people are making it out to be, it was just up and down. Some of the chapters were interesting, others were not.

Many of the OP fights drag just the same. Almost all of the thriller bark fights were boring as hell except for Zoro's and when that Teddy Bear guy came. Other other than that they were just ok, but what makes people interested in them is that they don't look the same. Oda has a way to craft fight scenes that end up being something that we haven't really seen before. Remember how people used to bitch about Skypeia (not me I loved skypeia)? Now all of a sudden they act like it never happened.

I'd also like to add that when Kishimoto tries his fights can be pretty interesting. The Jiraiya vs Pein fight was pretty cool, and different, and most importantly not so stagnant.

In short people are being way to hard on Kishi and way too easy on Oda. atm Oda > Kishi, but only at the moment. It shifts, depending on the current arc, and a person's current preferences.


----------



## p-lou (Apr 27, 2008)

Nope.  I saw you post it in the OBD convo thread and I thought it would be useful to save.


----------



## Masaki (Apr 27, 2008)

Aldric said:


> Can you really picture Kishimoto creating such a wide array of unique and amazing characters like what Oda just did in the latest chapter? And we haven't even seen Rayleigh, the strongest bounty hunters, the high level Marines and the Admiral.
> 
> Just as a reminder, the last characters created by Kishimoto were TEAM SNAKE



Actually, I believe the last two characters were Konan and Pein.  But the point still stands.  The first was taken from TheSato.com (don't bother going there, the site's been dead for a while), and the second's first fight has a few odd similarities to Kung Fu Hustle.



vault023 said:


> lol team fodder



Apparently some guy Kishi answers to is basically making him give those guys a fight.  I still am debating whether or not Karin can even fight.



Mirai Gohan said:


> Considering that Kishimoto doesn't  know how to honestly manage multiple characters at once or actually develope any sort of personality for them other then Sasuke's at the moment since the Immortal's Arc, yeah, he has a point about how Kishimoto is severely lacking when you compare One Piece to Naruto.



Hey guys, remember Rock Lee's goals?

Neither do I.



Mirai Gohan said:


> Genjutsu aspect of the fight was the shittiest portion of that shit infested battle.
> 
> " OMG GAT GENJUTSU "
> 
> ...



A. Since when was Sasuke a genjutsu user?
B. Kawarimi makes this manga a joke.  It's easy to use, and if you use it, we get bored, but if they don't use it, we wonder why.



Aldric said:


> .



Oh my.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Apr 27, 2008)

Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki said:


> I guess you're one of those who believe the face is perfectly symmetrical, eh? xD
> 
> Anyway. Both Oda and Kishimoto can draw, just that they are good at drawing different things. Kishimoto is better at environments and perspective, while Oda is better at composing a good looking environment or scene.
> 
> Oda's style of drawing people is also vastly different from what most people are used to, so it'll take a while to appreciate it.



and who said that Oda can't draw,seeing as symetry is mostly present in a human face to SOME decree,that litle thing from Kishimoto kinda proves he does "realistic" stuff,which is far from anything spectacular,diferent,innovative or revolutionary.


----------



## tictactoc (Apr 27, 2008)

Teresa Brasil said:


> LOL
> These Sasutards...
> Go read HunterxHunter and you will see all the bases for Naruto.
> The difference between Sasuke and Kurapika is...well... you'll see it for yourselves..
> At least Oda is original.



Oda is not original, his inspirations are from different sources, that's it. And everyone know about the similarities between Naruto and HxH, Kishimoto talked about it, Togashi talked about it.


----------



## The Doctor (Apr 27, 2008)

First part of your post: Oda were inspirated by DBZ. The others I wanna know.
Second part: Yeah I know  That only reinforces my arguement 
I still keep what I said: Oda is original


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Apr 27, 2008)

himself

like weve seen anything like THIS in Dragonball dozens of times.


----------



## Krauser-tan (Apr 27, 2008)

About the art, i still don't know why did kishi change radically his artstyle, which was unique, detailed, and far from generic back then...now, just look at the last chapter, shodai looks like oro without the makeup or whatever it is, the characters lack detail and the emotions are bad portrayed since the end of the gaara's rescue arc...i heard some rumors that his art changed due to the anime team, claiming that the art was quite difficult to copy or something like that, which if it is true, it's really a shame...

Kishi can do a lot better than what he does at the moment, that's what piss me off...maybe that's other similarity between him and togashi, both are lazy as hell, in different departments though.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Apr 27, 2008)

I thought Togashi was chronicaly sick?I know the man introduces good designed characters to never show them to us again,and practicaly hypes something,only to finish it of,of-screen,but he isn't a BAD mangaka.


----------



## Krauser-tan (Apr 27, 2008)

Yeah he was...

i wasn't talking about togashi's art, just about his laziness to release hxh chapters, sorry if i wasn't clear enough with that point.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Apr 27, 2008)

if you said he's SICK,then how can you "yell" at him for being "lazy"?


----------



## Fang (Apr 27, 2008)

Masaki said:


> A. Since when was Sasuke a genjutsu user?



How about reading the Deidara vs Sasuke fight? Or the Itachi vs Sasuke one while your at it?


----------



## Gary (Apr 27, 2008)

sasuke tards read hxh which started before naruto and you will see all the charater in naruto .Just proves kis has to copy off other mangas .


----------



## Krauser-tan (Apr 27, 2008)

Lobolover said:


> if you said he's SICK,then how can you "yell" at him for being "lazy"?



He Was sick, not now i guess...and he keeps going with constant hiatus, whether he's healty or not...i didn't "yell" anything, togashi is my favorite shounen mangaka, but he is lazy, he has always been, even with yu yu hakusho. This is a fact.


----------



## C-Moon (Apr 27, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Genjutsu aspect of the fight was the shittiest portion of that shit infested battle.
> 
> " OMG GAT GENJUTSU "
> 
> ...


----------



## Gary (Apr 27, 2008)

GAmma just fucking won


----------



## C-Moon (Apr 27, 2008)

Aldric said:


> .


*Good Sasuke, you look kinda cool! *


----------



## Gary (Apr 27, 2008)

lol i know this some how will turn ing a sasuke tard vs other tard thread


----------



## Haku is Sexy (Apr 27, 2008)

anyone else notice that?


----------



## p-lou (Apr 27, 2008)

Yeah.  The last chapter wasn't exactly a good one for Kishi.  And what makes it even worse is that there wasn't a chapter the week before.  He had plenty of time to catch these silly mistakes.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Apr 27, 2008)

p-lou said:


> Yeah.  The last chapter wasn't exactly a good one for Kishi.  And what makes it even worse is that there wasn't a chapter the week before.  He had plenty of time to catch these silly mistakes.



He has had the entire part 2 to make it part 1 pre-Find Tsunade arc lvl again.

Sadly that hope is long gone with the manga getting bader and bader every arc.


----------



## p-lou (Apr 27, 2008)

My comment was directed solely at the art.  Because occasionally he'll throw out something pretty good.  As far as the overall quality of the story and characters and such, I agree.  Ever since the end of the Konoha invasion arc the manga has been stale and shows absolutely no promise to get better.


----------



## Supa Swag (Apr 27, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Genjutsu aspect of the fight was the shittiest portion of that shit infested battle.
> 
> " OMG GAT GENJUTSU "
> 
> ...



No way, that was the most hilarious fight ever.

First we get the genjutsu "PEEK A BOO I C U!!!" then they start throwing shit then Itachi takes out Sasuke's eye. This is when the first LMFAO moment comes when it was revealed that Itachi has just used genjutsu to make Sasuke think he took out an eye. Not just any genjutsu, TSUKIYOMI. 

Then they have a fire battle then Itachi uses Amaterasu then Sasuke uses Oro's shit then Sasuke says some corny gay ass line "DISAPPEAR WITH DA THUNDER U MEANIE!" the Kirin hits Itachi.

But Itachi uses Susanoo and avoids Sasuke then Sasuke's all "OMGWTF?! " then all of a sudden Orochimaru pops out and like 10 fucking seconds later Itachi kills. The Itachi walks towards Sasuke, has a heart attack and dies.

When you add in the fact tha this was the most hyped fight in the series well, lmao. Kishimoto tricked us guys. HE'S A MAGICIAN!


----------



## p-lou (Apr 27, 2008)

Kitty Litter said:


> When you add in the fact tha this was the most hyped fight in the series well, lmao. Kishimoto tricked us guys. HE'S A MAGICIAN!



:rofl :rofl  So that's what happened.  I should have seen it coming.  :rofl


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Apr 27, 2008)

corect me if im wrong,but wasn't it one of the most anticipated fights of the whole series?


----------



## Sylar (Apr 27, 2008)

Lobolover said:


> I thought Togashi was chronicaly sick?I know the man introduces good designed characters to never show them to us again,and practicaly hypes something,only to finish it of,of-screen,but he isn't a BAD mangaka.



Hate to break it to you, but Togashi was never sick. He just likes playing RPGs so he told his bosses he was sick to get out of work. He's actually been caught doing it once before. Point is, he's not sick and hasn't been. He's just ungodly lazy.


----------



## Violent Man (Apr 27, 2008)

Yeah if your going to credit Kishi for something, credit him for chucking out a chapter each week no matter how much of a train wreck it is.

You can't say that about Togashi.


----------



## Fran (Apr 28, 2008)

Hmmm, so begins the Togashi-bashing.
I smell a "OMFGZ KISHI STOLE OFF TOGASHI" coming up.


*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Taleran (Apr 28, 2008)

Guy guys guys guys

Kishimoto isn't an artist, he gets his assistants to color all the pages black, and then he erases the pictures out of that


neway this topic isn't dead yet?


----------



## Gary (Apr 28, 2008)

i was just about to say that


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Apr 28, 2008)

Taleran-yes,but coinsidering what abysmally horrible art the last chapter of GI had,Togashi should get asistants too.


----------



## Fang (Apr 28, 2008)

Violent Man said:


> Yeah if your going to credit Kishi for something, credit him for chucking out a chapter each week no matter how much of a train wreck it is.
> 
> You can't say that about Togashi.



By that logic Tite Kubo should be getting credit as well.


----------



## Aldric (Apr 28, 2008)

I'd rather have a solid chapter every 3 months than the weekly garbage Kishimoto produces


----------



## Parallax (Apr 28, 2008)

Why is this shit still going on?  honestly one can't help but get pissed reading this


----------



## Codde (Apr 28, 2008)

Zaoldyeck said:


> About the art, i still don't know why did kishi change radically his artstyle, which was unique, detailed, and far from generic back then...now, just look at the last chapter, shodai looks like oro without the makeup or whatever it is, the characters lack detail and the emotions are bad portrayed since the end of the gaara's rescue arc...i heard some rumors that his art changed due to the anime team, claiming that the art was quite difficult to copy or something like that, which if it is true, it's really a shame...
> 
> Kishi can do a lot better than what he does at the moment, that's what piss me off...maybe that's other similarity between him and togashi, both are lazy as hell, in different departments though.


I don't see why that would be the case with the anime team. For the most part they're different things entirely maybe the mangaka might provide some advice or anything but I doubt they'd alter the manga on their own accord for something anime-related. 

And Kishimoto stated that he would be switching to completley digital art around volume 7.




> This "Naruto" was probably the first manga to be made with digital editing. From now on, manga work will be changing rapidly, switching over to digital, won't it? The background and characters would be made with polygons. We'd be free to all sorts of dsigns. Cool poses done with motion capture for the action... All on a computer without paepr or ink... from now on, it's going to be rapidly changing. But the thing that won't change is thinking up a good story, huh?


----------



## Agmaster (Apr 28, 2008)

Three months?!  The OP forum didn't last this long.  Yak Kab, kill this noise now since this place won't let me.



Code said:


> And Kishimoto stated that he would be switching to completley digital art around volume 7.



Wow, way to let an untested art style fuck up your cred, Kishi.  If the art was made to be so easy, then...that's just less of an excuse for....ugh I am sinking to the level of this thread...


----------



## Aldric (Apr 28, 2008)

> But the thing that won't change is thinking up a good story, huh?



HAHAHA

...


----------



## San Juan Wolf (Apr 28, 2008)

what is he refering to                                     ?


----------



## Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki (Apr 28, 2008)

Agmaster said:


> Three months?!  The OP forum didn't last this long.  Yak Kab, kill this noise now since this place won't let me.
> 
> Wow, way to let an untested art style fuck up your cred, Kishi.  If the art was made to be so easy, then...that's just less of an excuse for....ugh I am sinking to the level of this thread...



That statement is odd.

Look at most scenes in the manga so far.

While it might be drawn on computer, i do not believe the backgrounds are rendered. At most, he is drawing on top of rendered images, but no way the final product is rendered.

You can just look at Gantz for a comparison. Nearly everything in that is digital. Naruto doesn't even look close in terms of "digitalness".

Edit: I've now taken a closer look at some of the pages to check the statement out.

Link removed
Link removed

Look at the half columns on the building in the background. If it was 3d rendered the proportions would be perfect, but they're not. Compare the two pictures and you can clearly see that in one the difference between the thick columns and the thinner columns is greater than the other. The proportions are not perfect, and thus it can't be a render.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (May 7, 2008)

Sorry for bringing it up,but heres something from the first page I just couldn't ignore:



PisOgPapir said:


> Naruto is better.
> Since i haven't watched OP
> Maybe i should.



..................................No coment.

AND:



tictactoc said:


> The opinions won't change here OP. People hate Naruto on this forum.



Seeing as this is a Naruto forum,this MAY be a bit contra-productive.

Anyway,im also asking cause of what we saw in 497 and 498.Niceness.


----------



## Franky (May 7, 2008)

I've read only the first, second, and last pages of this thread, and I'm sick of how Narutotards say they know One Piece

Guess what; YOU DON'T

A true One Piece fan would never say the things you have.

OP > Naruto

Naruto < Dora the Explorer


----------



## San Juan Wolf (May 8, 2008)

I think they dont say things like an OP fan because their Naruto fans,but it may only be a speculation.


----------



## Ennoea (May 8, 2008)

> Naruto < Dora the Explorer



I hope you realise that being an OP tard is just as bad as a Narutard, your both as bad and dumb as each other.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (May 8, 2008)

Well,yes(even if our following the top selling series HAS a point),but I didn't see "OP-tard" in an urban dictionary,unlike the other term.


----------



## Powdered Toast Man (May 8, 2008)

Don't you guys get tired of this?


----------



## San Juan Wolf (May 8, 2008)

No.Full of Narutard "goodness"                 .


----------



## MdB (May 8, 2008)

The last few posts contain too much faggotry.


----------



## MuNaZ (May 8, 2008)

how about you just let this crap die...

oh shit i posted


----------



## Fang (May 8, 2008)

Lord Kamina is correct.


----------



## Doom85 (May 8, 2008)

Oversoul said:


> Charakter wise:
> One Piece>Naruto
> 
> Plot wise:
> ...



QFT. 

Now, I'm still fairly new to One Piece (about to start the Alabasta arc), but what impresses me a lot is the character interaction. Luffy and his crew's personalities both cooperate and clash in both interesting and hilarious ways. For example, Zoro striking a dynamic pose when they were getting stuck in the wax and Nami acting like he was nuts, you just wouldn't see something like that in any of the Naruto characters. It's silly, but given the situation and the characters, it's perfectly logical. Zoro couldn't escape and was relying on the others to free him, so in case they failed, he wants to go down looking like a champ.

Kishi does have some good character interaction, but it's mainly limited to Team 7. Occasionally, you get other characters who work well off each other (Deidara/Tobi, Rock Lee/Gai, etc.), but Team 7 is really limited to four, now three, characters. I'm not including Sai/Yamato, Sai stopped being important once Hidan/Kakuza showed up, and Yamato's just there for Kyuubi control.

I do still find the story interesting, and I know One Piece's story picks up more later on in the series. But as for emotion, he's right. I've definitely gotten sad over quite a few OP moments, but Naruto hits me harder. I do identify with Naruto more than Luffy (as a kid, I acted annoying to get attention, and my best friend moved away when I was 17, so I know how hard it can be to move on).

We did forget humor though, which OP easily wins. Naruto's got some good humor, but some of it comes off as weak every now and then.

Just my two cents. Anyway, they both trump Bleach (which I enjoy, but the fact that Kubo had to give ANOTHER "rescue the girl" arc drove me nuts), so they both come out winners for me.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (May 8, 2008)

I hate to spoil you but theres an arc which surpasses EVERYTHING passt in emotions in OP.Finish Alabasta,its only a few arcs ahead.Then repeat it,if you can.


----------



## Doom85 (May 8, 2008)

Really? I assumed Alabasta would be the biggest tear-jerker for a while, but the emotion hits a little later? Interesting.....

Can't wait to get to Sky Island, I've seen a few clips from it and it looks hilarious: Zoro - "(Tarzan yell) AWAWAWAWWAWA, that's what you should have done! Nami - That had nothing to do with it!!!; 
Luffy: If you pick the wrong door, then you fall off the island! Usopp - How can you say something so stupid?! We're THOUSANDS of meters in the air! I don't know how many times your life can flash before your eyes during a fall like that, and I don't want to know! Sanji - You guys are both being idiots. Nothing like that is gonna- (boat falls)


----------



## Ennoea (May 8, 2008)

Emotion wise Arlong Arc trumps all Naruto arcs.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (May 8, 2008)

Doom-compared to it,Alabasta is an Emo arc                    .


----------



## Zephos (May 8, 2008)

Lobolover said:


> Doom-compared to it,Alabasta is an Emo arc                    .



What the hell arc are you overhyping now.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (May 8, 2008)

Advertising the best arc of the series so far-and certainly not being anywhere NEAR OVERhyping.


----------



## Zephos (May 8, 2008)

Lobolover said:


> Advertising the best arc of the series so far-and certainly not being anywhere NEAR OVERhyping.



Get Lovecraft's dick out of your mouth and answer my question.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (May 9, 2008)

I can't answer your question without spoiling that person.

Also,I expect you to stop this rude behaviour.


----------



## Zephos (May 9, 2008)

Lobolover said:


> I can't answer your question without spoiling that person.
> 
> Also,I expect you to stop this rude behaviour.



You could just say "Water7" or whatever it is, I didn't friggin ask for the plot.

And get off your Lovecraftian PMS, I mean damn, is an ancient elder god of destruction emerging from your cooter or what.


----------



## MdB (May 9, 2008)

Since when is Naruto strong in the emotion and drama department? All it contains is melodramatic bullshit between various shallow fucktards that can only look cool, GROUNDBREAKING....


----------



## Fang (May 9, 2008)

MdB said:


> Since when is Naruto strong in the emotion and drama department? All it contains is melodramatic bullshit between various shallow fucktards that can only look cool, GROUNDBREAKING....



SASUCE-KAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## MdB (May 9, 2008)

Get this Grimmjow faggotry off my screen, TWF.


----------



## Aldric (May 9, 2008)

I have never been close to being moved by a Naruto chapter. Not once.

I've never felt any empathy for its characters either, with maybe the exception of Gaara. They all feel like lifeless puppets being blatantly moved by Kishimoto to go along with the plot.


----------



## Agmaster (May 9, 2008)

How is this thing STILL here?  Come ON, just shoot it.


----------



## tipom (May 9, 2008)

> Emotion wise:
> One Piece<Naruto


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Oh man you are funny


----------



## Shoddragon (May 10, 2008)

usopp vs one piece was not emotional? the JAYA ARC WAS NOT EMOTIONAL? GTFOmadmad!


----------



## RamzaBeoulve (May 10, 2008)

apparently, naruto crying is emotional


----------



## Jotun (May 11, 2008)

Well, I think we can agree that they both are way better than Bleach 

Naruto's grand plan/secrets/the end of Naruto is what really drives me to read each week. The fights have gotten pretty bland, with the exception of Sauce-Deidei and Jiraiya-Pein.

One Piece just generally makes me happier when I read it. I have never been pissed off after reading a OP chapter. I can't say the same for Naruto.

The fights/comedy/interactions with different characters are just so much more enjoyable in OP.

People who rag on OP are just losers who can't adapt to Oda's unique art style.
These same people praise Kishi's art which is by far some of the most simplest-cookie cutter art I have seen. No doubt is it nice to look at, but ya. I'll take an Oda character design over a Kishi character design any day.


----------



## Gary (May 11, 2008)

damn this was bummed


----------



## Aruka (May 11, 2008)

OP is clearly the dominate one compared to Naruto. So many attributes about OP that makes Naruto look mediocre.


----------



## Violent by Design (May 12, 2008)

Jotun said:


> Well, I think we can agree that they both are way better than Bleach
> 
> Naruto's grand plan/secrets/the end of Naruto is what really drives me to read each week. The fights have gotten pretty bland, with the exception of Sauce-Deidei and Jiraiya-Pein.
> 
> ...


 Losers? Can't you say the same for OP fans who blindly overrated OP?







Now for a random tangent (has nothing much to do with the reply I quoted)

People bring up things that are not really that relevant, Naruto goes for different things then One Piece does. Most of Naruto isn't funny and there aren't many attempts at jokes. One Piece is different where it's more whacky and shit.

Either way, to pretend that One Piece doesn't have any faults is just retarded . It's preference when it comes down to it, OP doesn't tickel it for some people. I stopped reading OP by the thriller bark arc due to lack of interest.

Also OP is a much more "Fantasy" driven manga then Naruto. Oda has the freedom to put any thing at any time in OP because of how over the top it is. 

The overall plot of One Piece doesn't go any where either. Could someone remind me how long the Skypia Arc was? Now can someone tell me how much changed plot wise inbetween that whole time? The CP9 saga while it was good, was WAY to drawn out. The whole point of CP9 was so Luffy becomes a primary target of the government, Oda takes way to long and imo really over does it on the side/temporary characters.

And in general, OP is just to kiddy for me. It's geared for boys in Japan, and geared for even younger people in the US. Why watch OP when I can watch something a bit more relateable? Something that actually makes sense.

But anyway, the latter part of my tangent isn't comparing to Naruto, i'm just talking about One Piece in general. OP is still a great manga/anime and I enjoyed reading and watching most of it (I was pissed after the Skypia arc despite how cool Wiper and Enel are).


As for my opinion on Naruto. Naruto is good for what it is, a Shounin manga. Naruto isn't a typical shounen manga in terms of plot which is what I like about it. Naruto's strong points are the characters fighting styles and how the overall plot moves along.


----------



## RamzaBeoulve (May 12, 2008)

Violent By Design said:


> .................
> As for my opinion on Naruto. Naruto is good for what it is, a Shounin manga. Naruto isn't a typical shounen manga in terms of plot which is what I like about it. *Naruto's strong points are the characters fighting styles and how the overall plot moves along.*


lololol
GO CLONE ATTACK!
*clone dies*
WHAT?! CURSES!! RASENGAN!!!

dont even want to talk about its plot...


----------



## Zephos (May 12, 2008)

> The overall plot of One Piece doesn't go any where either.[/QUOTE
> 
> What are you talking about? How can you not know where One Piece was going....I mean shit it's *in the title*.
> 
> ...


----------



## Aldric (May 12, 2008)

In before "NARUTO ISNT A TYPICAL SHONEN MAIN CHARACTER AT LEAST HE ISNT LIKE GOKU THATD BE BORING LOLOLOLOLOLILOOOOOLLLLLLLLL"


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (May 12, 2008)

Violent By Design said:


> It's geared for boys in Japan, and geared for even younger people in the US. Why watch OP when I can watch something a bit more relateable? Something that actually makes sense.



Guess what, both are meant for the same audience 



> As for my opinion on Naruto. Naruto is good for what it is, a Shounin manga. Naruto isn't a typical shounen manga in terms of plot which is what I like about it.



Yeah because taking away the focus on the main character for over a year means it have to be good in not a typical way.

I think not 



> Naruto's strong points are the characters fighting styles and how the overall plot moves along.



The characters fighting style is so variated AMIRITE?

And the overall plot moving along with the bland cast that is the Uchihas


----------



## Zhang_Fei (May 12, 2008)

Violent By Design said:


> Losers? Can't you say the same for OP fans who blindly overrated OP?


Nope, they're losers cause they're losing out on a great manga for a stupid reason.  OP fanatics who overrate it - many of us inlcuded - aren't so close-minded as to not try and appreciate other mangas.



> As for my opinion on Naruto. Naruto is good for what it is, a Shounin manga. Naruto isn't a typical shounen manga in terms of plot which is what I like about it.


Sounds like you need to read more shounen.  



> Naruto's strong points are the characters fighting styles and how the overall plot moves along.


Part 1 yes.  Part 2 is chidori, sharingan, and rasengan spam.  And wtf happened to Kakashi's 1000 jutsus, or Naruto's summoning?


----------



## Violent by Design (May 12, 2008)

Pretty typical response. "IM JUST GONNA LOL INSTEAD OF MAKING A REPLY THAT MAKES SENSE, ONE PIECE ROKCS".


Anyway, were talking about Naruto as a whole. So I don't understand why some people pretend like Part 1 doesn't exist any more.


I've read every shounen that needs to be read.

But anyway time to respond to your replies, even though half of them are just capitalized nonsense to further strengthen your elitism. 





> Guess what, both are meant for the same audience


 Um...

""*But anyway, the latter part of my tangent isn't comparing to Naruto,* i'm just talking about One Piece in general. OP is still a great manga/anime and I enjoyed reading and watching most of it (I was pissed after the Skypia arc despite how cool Wiper and Enel are)."




> Yeah because taking away the focus on the main character for over a year means it have to be good in not a typical way.
> 
> I think not


Over a year? Aside from the latest arc he plays a major role in every arc. It just seems long because scans are released every week. Can someone remind me how many panels Goku was in the Frieza saga for?

And Sasuke is Naruto's other main character. He's used to further the plot, since Part 2 is about the conflict between Naruto and Sasuke.





> The characters fighting style is so variated AMIRITE?


 Yes...? Almost every Naruto character has a pretty creative fighting style. Sasuke, Rock Lee and Gai are the only characters who have more generic shounin fighting scenes.



> And the overall plot moving along with the bland cast that is the Uchihas


I'd hope so since the Uchihas are pretty important to the story. It'd be kind of dumb for One Piece to move on the story when it doesn't include the world government wouldn't it?




> What are you talking about? How can you not know where One Piece was going....I mean shit it's in the title.


 I'm not sure if this is a joke or not. But either way, it's taking them a pretty long time to get to One Piece.




> OP has the exact same audience as Naruto. EXACT. Not one degree of deviation. Same with Bleach. Same with Dragonball.
> Anyone who says otherwise is a teenager who dosen't yet understand what maturity actually entails.


*But anyway, the latter part of my tangent isn't comparing to Naruto,*

I said this literally the next paragraph. Anyone who isn't a teenager (what a diss calling people a teenager, something that's widely used by people who are barely in their 20's) would be able to pick that up.



> The relateable part is even more laughable. What the hell are you looking for in a story than? Are you implying one can't enjoy both wacky good times and dark seriousness? I read both One Piece and Berserk as they come out, don't tell me it's impossible or illogical.


 *OP is still a great manga/anime and I enjoyed reading and watching most of it*

Not only did I say that, it's also implied in my post that I like Naruto. So I really don't see how you can say I don't like "whacky" animes.

But your acting like it's blasphemy for some one to call One Piece or Naruto kiddy. The lack of drama is a reason in itself why it doesn't appeal to some people. No one dies in One Piece (except in flash backs), Luffy beats up the main bad guy of every arc, they find One Piece, a lot of jokes are made. There's no drama, so how is it not understandable how some people can not like the series?

And I didn't say you can't enjoy both, so I'm not sure why you keep talking out of your ass. I'm just stating One Piece's faults. I don't see how dissing Naruto (on a Naruto forum) takes away from any of that.

And Berserk was cool when I was 13, are you going to mention the early Spawn Comics and the Mortal Kombat games next? 







Anyway, I'm not sure how you can talk about being mature when the replies to this thread is a joke. Through out the forum, when ever anything negative is said about One Piece there's a bandwagon of people who give non illogical elitist answers. I enjoyed One Piece and I've gotten a lot of my friends to watch it, I have no 'grudge' against a cartoon. I'm not sure why you can't like One Piece and Naruto at the same time, I didn't know you had to chose a side.


----------



## Dance (May 12, 2008)

I like how people keep using Naruto's plot as a plus for the series.

When the plot is probably the worst part.

And the idea of Naruto beating One Piece in emotions is pretty fucking ridiculous.


----------



## Zephos (May 12, 2008)

> Pretty typical response. "IM JUST GONNA LOL INSTEAD OF MAKING A REPLY THAT MAKES SENSE, ONE PIECE ROKCS".



Well what can I say, you posted pretty hilarious stuff.



> Anyway, were talking about Naruto as a whole. So I don't understand why some people pretend like Part 1 doesn't exist any more.



Part 2 plus the Chase Sasuke arc of Part 1 is longer than the period of decentness of Part 1. It outweighs it and is what's currently relevant.
Also most of part 1's fun came from what it promised, which has all gone down the shitter.




> I've read every shounen that needs to be read.



Didn't realize you were the authority on shonen.



> But anyway time to respond to your replies, even though half of them are just capitalized nonsense to further strengthen your elitism.



I know saying things like that helps you feel like the only guys around who can use reasoning or whatever, but I am going to effortlessly win.





> I'm not sure if this is a joke or not. But either way, it's taking them a pretty long time to get to One Piece.



It's on the other side of the friggin world. Start sailing from your house to the other side of your house by going in a straight line and having to stop every once and awhile.



> *But anyway, the latter part of my tangent isn't comparing to Naruto,*



So you admit Naruto is every but as kiddie as One Piece? Cool.



> I said this literally the next paragraph. Anyone who isn't a teenager (what a diss calling people a teenager, something that's widely used by people who are barely in their 20's) would be able to pick that up.



Yhea that dosen't deny my point so



> Not only did I say that, it's also implied in my post that I like Naruto. So I really don't see how you can say I don't like "whacky animes".



You havn't given up on it though. Makes me wonder why.



> But your acting like it's blasphemy for some one to call One Piece or Naruto kiddy. The lack of drama is a reason in itself why it doesn't appeal to some people.



One Piece has buttloads of drama, way to show you havn't read it duder.



> No one dies in One Piece (except in flash backs), Luffy beats up the main bad guy of every arc, they find One Piece, a lot of jokes are made. There's no drama, so how is it not understandable how some people can not like the series?



I love it when people throw around words without knowing what they mean.
In example "drama".



> And I didn't say you can't enjoy both, so I'm not sure why you keep talking out of your ass. I'm just stating One Piece's faults. I don't see how dissing Naruto (on a Naruto forum) takes away from any of that.



Your talking about it on a "One Piece Versus. Naruto" thread. 
DERP.



> And Berserk was cool when I was 13, are you going to mention the early Spawn Comics and the Mortal Kombat games next?



Hahaha, yhea because Berserk is just mindless violence.
Just like One Piece has no drama.
Your credibility just keeps plumiting farther and farther.


> Anyway, I'm not sure how you can talk about being mature when the replies to this thread is a joke. Through out the forum, when ever anything negative is said about One Piece there's a bandwagon of people who give non illogical elitist answers.



Non-illogical? Why thanks.

And there is no bandwagon.
Most of those people hate eachother as much as they hate the butthurt apologists.



> I enjoyed One Piece and I've gotten a lot of my friends to watch it, I have no 'grudge' against a cartoon. I'm not sure why you can't like One Piece and Naruto at the same time, I didn't know you had to chose a side.



Niether did I, what the hell are you talking about.


----------



## Zephos (May 12, 2008)

> Over a year? Aside from the latest arc he plays a major role in every arc. It just seems long because scans are released every week. Can someone remind me how many panels Goku was in the Frieza saga for?



Lets see, he was in every volume.
Only being out of focus for two volumes because he was on a ship coming to where the action was, though we still saw him. Than he was the main character again.

Yep, that was pretty god awful analogy.



> I'd hope so since the Uchihas are pretty important to the story. It'd be kind of dumb for One Piece to move on the story when it doesn't include the world government wouldn't it?



No, not really. The World Government isn't central to every bit of One Piece. Much like the Uchias.

Your trying some lousy jab at Thriller Barque aren't you.



> Yes...? Almost every Naruto character has a pretty creative fighting style. Sasuke, Rock Lee and Gai are the only characters who have more generic shounin fighting scenes.



Name one creative fighting style. It's probably been done better in One Piece or HunterXHunter.


----------



## Taleran (May 12, 2008)

I'd like to point out that the Early spawn comics weren't just mindless violence either but obviously at 13 reading them that would be all you would pick out of them


2 cents


----------



## neostar8710 (May 12, 2008)

part 1 of naruto was awesome. good pacing and interesting fights

then it just became stale and dragged out when part 2 started...

one piece was pretty lame in the beginning..kinda..and finally became amazing once all the characters got meshed out..and the pacing is always good and the fights don't last a bazillion years..and the drawings don't seem so blocky or whatnot...

so i love one piece as a whole, i just wish naruto part 2 was like part 1 =/


----------



## C. Hook (May 12, 2008)

Well, this is a loaded topic. Well, I personally like One Piece better than Naruto, but that's no reason for me to go crazy on Naruto fans. Same vice-versa. Both of them have good and bad moments. It's just, for me, One Piece has a lot more good moments and a lot less bad moments.

Naruto... Part 1 had SOME potential, I'll admit. Chunin Exams were pretty fun, and Zabuza was awesome. Then Sasuke ran to a pedo-snake, and it all went pretty downhill. I'm sorry Kishi, but this comic is about Naruto, not some snaky emo who you think should be forgiven, despite all the evidence to the contrary. 

Someone earlier said One Piece has no drama because no one dies... Drama doesn't mean deaths. Anyone with half a mind will say that The Lion King is more dramatic than Halo 3. Lion King has only two main character deaths, Halo 3 has three, but the Lion King is a shitload more dramatic. 

Naruto doesn't have much drama beyond High School level, really. It has it's moments, but then we get into those parts with excruciating monotony. One Piece drama, when it comes, can be quite good. I absolutely loved Arlong Park, and the part where Luffy fights with Vivi in Alabasta was a great conversation. The Usopp vs Luffy fight was one of the saddest in the series, and the entire flashback in Skypiea almost brought tears to my eyes. 

As for story relevance, what relevance does the World Government have to One Piece? It's about the Strawhat Pirates' adventures. Anything else is just icing on the cake.


----------



## Gary (May 12, 2008)

why is this still going on ?


----------



## Halcyon Days (May 12, 2008)

for the love of arguing


----------



## p-lou (May 12, 2008)

i hate sasuke said:


> why is this still going on ?



Because if this thread is closed a new one will be made within a week.


----------



## Batman (May 12, 2008)

*Things I liked about part 2 (Naruto)*
1. The Asuma Shimakaru arc (minus the Naruto one shot) I'm one of the people that finds Shikamaru fights hella interesting, so this entire arc was great for me.

2. ???

3. Profit! 


Actually I've liked them both pretty evenly over the long haul. Naruto certainly had a stronger start than One Piece did, but I mean come on . . . *"Arlong Park"* is like the most perfect story arc ever.

Naruto went down hill at the VotE and its been struggling to come back since.


----------



## Gary (May 12, 2008)

p-lou said:


> Because if this thread is closed a new one will be made within a week.



yeah kinda sad


----------



## C. Hook (May 12, 2008)

Batman said:


> *"Arlong Park"* is like the most perfect story arc ever.



I have to disagree. My favorite is the Jaya/Skypiea saga. Arlong Park was amazing, but Jaya... That was something more. While Skypiea wasn't as good as Jaya, I still loved it so much. The flashback and the unique local, along with the introduction of bad-ass Wiper and Enel, really shot it to the top for me.


----------



## Codde (May 12, 2008)

Zephos said:


> OP has the exact same audience as Naruto. EXACT. Not one degree of deviation. Same with Bleach. Same with Dragonball.
> Anyone who says otherwise is a teenager who dosen't yet understand what maturity actually entails.


That's not neccessarily true. It'd depend on what you mean by audience. Both run in the Weeky Shounen Jump so young males would obviously be the target of the magazines themselves. But in terms of who the mangaka is specifically writing for, Oda has specifically stated that he wants to target both adults and children as opposed to just kids (while pointing out how he wants it to be more dramatic at times). Not sure about Kishimoto.

In regards to the audiance that actually watches it, One Piece's largest group is kids, closely followed by adult (30+) females and adult (20+) males  and with relatively high viewership among other demographics (male and female teens.) While Naruto's audience is overwhemlingly children. This being in Japan of course, audience in other countries probably vary (likely younger for One Piece.)

So really their "audience" is only similiar in the sense that the primary target group of the magazine they're serialized in happens to be the same. The actual audience for One Piece is broader both in mangaka's target and who watches (probably the same for reading) it.


----------



## Batman (May 12, 2008)

Sircrocodileofalaburna said:


> I have to disagree. My favorite is the Jaya/Skypiea saga. Arlong Park was amazing, but Jaya... That was something more. While Skypiea wasn't as good as Jaya, I still loved it so much. The flashback and the unique local, along with the introduction of bad-ass Wiper and Enel, really shot it to the top for me.



I dunno man, the Jaya stuff dragged a bit for me, but yeah Wiper and Enel are great characters.


----------



## Lusankya (May 13, 2008)

Why is this thread still alive and kicking instead of buried somewhere in forum wilderness?


----------



## RamzaBeoulve (May 13, 2008)

Lusankya said:


> Why is this thread still alive and kicking instead of buried somewhere in forum wilderness?


ok, since everyone is asking...

the truth is....the purpose of the thread is to trap those little narutards into thinking that naruto is actually good enough to be compared with one piece...

while we gang up on those little bastards and beat their guts out......_for enjoyment_...

are u pleased with the explanation?

























but of course, i completely made that up.


----------



## Seany (May 13, 2008)

Naruto only really dominates One Piece when it comes to the fights. I'm not talking about the action, i'm talking about the realism. 
Well, look at Sky Piea. The fights were over the top, and just down right ridiculous. Everyone who took on Eneru was hit with a 30,000,000 + bolt, and they survived. I mean come on . At least in Naruto someone would actually die from this.


----------



## Nuzzie (May 13, 2008)

Cartoon said:


> Naruto only really dominates One Piece when it comes to the fights. I'm not talking about the action, i'm talking about the realism.
> Well, look at Sky Piea. The fights were over the top, and just down right ridiculous. Everyone who took on Eneru was hit with a 30,000,000 + bolt, and they survived. I mean come on . At least in Naruto someone would actually die from this.



I reject your _reality_ and substitute my own.


----------



## kunaitoe (May 13, 2008)

I like Op! I like Naruto!

That's about as complicated as it needs to get for me.


----------



## Zephos (May 13, 2008)

Cartoon said:


> Naruto only really dominates One Piece when it comes to the fights. I'm not talking about the action, i'm talking about the realism.
> Well, look at Sky Piea. The fights were over the top, and just down right ridiculous. Everyone who took on Eneru was hit with a 30,000,000 + bolt, and they survived. I mean come on . At least in Naruto someone would actually die from this.



People in Naruto eat suicide pills, lie on the ground for a few hours afterwards, than are up and about after a few days at the hospital.


----------



## Stan Lee (May 13, 2008)

I tried to get into OP I really tried but it just wasn't happening so I'm going with Naruto.


----------



## Mat?icha (May 13, 2008)

i dont understand how people even try to compare NARUTO to onepiece 
Naruto is A masterpiece, op is a biggest gay shit.
no flamin pls, this is how i feel.


----------



## Nuzzie (May 13, 2008)

Troll on my friend, troll on.


----------



## Amatsu (May 13, 2008)

Mat®icha said:


> i dont understand how people even try to compare NARUTO to onepiece
> Naruto is A masterpiece, op is a biggest gay shit.
> no flamin pls, this is how i feel.





Naruto is a masterpiece? I mean COME ON!


----------



## Gary (May 13, 2008)

^ QFT              .



Mat?icha said:


> i dont understand how people even try to compare NARUTO to onepiece
> Naruto is A masterpiece, op is a biggest gay shit.
> no flamin pls, this is how i feel.



so you like a emo manga with things that peopel predicted since the beginging and that has only a few good fights >?


----------



## Supa Swag (May 13, 2008)

Mat?icha said:


> i dont understand how people even try to compare NARUTO to onepiece
> Naruto is A masterpiece, op is a biggest gay shit.
> no flamin pls, this is how i feel.



You like Sasuke and Karin, you can't make a coherent flame and you think Naruto is a fucking masterpiece (HWAHWAHWAHWAHWAWHWHWAH)? 

Your opinion doesn't count.


----------



## C. Hook (May 13, 2008)

Mat?icha said:


> i dont understand how people even try to compare NARUTO to onepiece
> Naruto is A masterpiece, op is a biggest gay shit.
> no flamin pls, this is how i feel.



What the hell? Do you like making people mad at you? Do you feel a constant need to prove that your intelligence is not worth the posts you make? I know you said no flaming, but you just flamed One Piece without giving a single fucking reason. What makes Naruto so much better than One Piece? Why should I listen to the opinion of someone who probably hasn't even tried reading the manga? What's the point of posting here? Wha...

...It's a troll, isn't it.


----------



## Jotun (May 14, 2008)

Cartoon said:


> Naruto only really dominates One Piece when it comes to the fights. I'm not talking about the action, i'm talking about the realism.
> Well, look at Sky Piea. The fights were over the top, and just down right ridiculous. Everyone who took on Eneru was hit with a 30,000,000 + bolt, and they survived. I mean come on . At least in Naruto someone would actually die from this.



Itachi didn't die 

Well not from the bolt of lightning 

But I agree with you, although I doubt Sasuke would ever die in a fight


----------



## MuNaZ (May 14, 2008)

Jotun said:


> Itachi didn't die
> 
> Well not from the bolt of lightning
> 
> But I agree with you, although I doubt Sasuke would ever die in a fight



the manga would improve a lot if that happened... oh wait it's kishi who writes it....


----------



## Aldric (May 14, 2008)

Sock Pain makes anything Naruto related so much better


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (May 14, 2008)

Mat?icha said:


> i dont understand how people even try to compare NARUTO to onepiece
> Naruto is A masterpiece, op is a biggest gay shit.
> no flamin pls, this is how i feel.



Such a masterpiece that has copied HxH yet fails terribly to even compare to the original


----------



## Parallax (May 14, 2008)

please just let this shit die...


----------



## Amatsu (May 14, 2008)

Oh and by the way I doubt anyone is saying that One Piece doesn't have faults. It's just that One Piece has very, VERY few faults while the Naruto series existance is just one big fault altogether.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (May 14, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Oh and by the way I doubt anyone is saying that One Piece doesn't have faults. It's just that One Piece has very, VERY few faults while the Naruto series existance is just one big fault altogether.



Naruto fails at being a clone of HxH considering part 2 for sure


----------



## Cochise (May 14, 2008)

Naruto will never be at the same level as One Piece in quality. No one intelligent would argue against that, I'm sorry but Naruto is shit.


----------



## Razor Ramon HG (May 14, 2008)

Zephos said:


> Do you realize the implications of toting around and probably masturbating to Karin means your masturbating to Sasuke with boobs?



 and glasses

Why does this thread exist? These mangas are in completely different leagues.


----------



## Amatsu (May 14, 2008)

Razor Ramon HG said:


> and glasses
> 
> Why does this thread exist? These mangas are in completely different leagues.



Because Naruto fans desperately want to prove that their shounen manga is a masterpiece and the greatest thing ever written. Thus they're  better than One Piece and it's fans. Which they believe both to be kiddy/immature compared to their more mature tastes and the mature levels of series like Naruto which is like totally up their with the maturity level of Berserk.

One Piece fans really have nothing to prove. We already know that Naruto is inferior to One Piece, but we enjoy crushing the NaruTards hopes and dreams of   having the superior anime series for the lulz.


----------



## Nuzzie (May 14, 2008)

Razor Ramon HG said:


> and glasses
> 
> Why does this thread exist? These mangas are in completely different leagues.



I agree. Naruto completely outclasses One Piece in every category.


----------



## Sylar (May 14, 2008)

Nuzzie said:


> I agree. Naruto completely outclasses One Piece in every category.



No doubt. 

Suckiness, blandness, retardedness, genericness. One Piece just can't compare.


----------



## Mat?icha (May 15, 2008)

if u guys wanna blame some1, it shud be assholes who starts threads like this. threads like this been done zillion times before, and yet some people still do it.
and my statement about OP hasnt changed at all, it's gonna be the same way all the time.


----------



## Supa Swag (May 15, 2008)

The statement is outrageous because Naruto is being called a damn masterpiece (although that OP stays the same thing doesn't make much sense either).

I like OP a lot more than Naruto, but OP is FAR from a masterpiece.

But this thread has been garbage for a while so...


----------



## San Juan Wolf (May 15, 2008)

uhm,so if it isnt a masterpiece,why is all time number 3?


----------



## Aldric (May 15, 2008)

Is good question


----------



## Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki (May 15, 2008)

Lobolover said:


> uhm,so if it isnt a masterpiece,why is all time number 3?



The fact that something is popular doesn't make it good :3

Of course, OP is good, but it's far from a masterpiece.



Zephos said:


> People in Naruto eat suicide pills, lie on the ground for a few hours afterwards, than are up and about after a few days at the hospital.



But in Naruto, some people ARE going to die. This isn't going to happen in One Piece no matter how ridiculous of a beating they take. Atleast if someone in Naruto survives something ridiculous it's most often thanks to a special ability. In OP it's just because they're generally "tough".


----------



## MuNaZ (May 15, 2008)

Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki said:


> But in Naruto, some people ARE going to die. This isn't going to happen in One Piece no matter how ridiculous of a beating they take. Atleast if someone in Naruto survives something ridiculous it's most often thanks to a special ability. In OP it's just because they're generally "tough".



yeah deaths in naruto are so important.... Yeah Asuma was so important.... and Jiraya was just used as fodder... like the 2 kills of Oro and akatsuki all crappy death really...
One Piece had is shock deaths too... one not so long ago....

Between crappy deaths and no deaths i choose no deaths.... maybe i'm not a bloodthirsty maniac...


----------



## Razor Ramon HG (May 15, 2008)

The reason why it is popular is because it is so good 
That's the way i see it anyway. It obviously appeals to a much wider variety of audience than Naruto does.
I prefer One Piece to FMA to be honest, the FMA manga is so much better than the anime. I'm not saying the anime is terrible but it would have been better if it followed the manga. Anyway we digress, this is about OP and Narupoop
Wait this is the manga section lolz
Yeah FMA is slightly more epic, but I still prefer one piece due to Odas sheer genius


----------



## Ennoea (May 15, 2008)

> uhm,so if it isnt a masterpiece,why is all time number 3?



Thats just dumb, I heard Justin Timberlake sells alot so would you call his music a masterpiece?


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (May 15, 2008)

Razor Ramon HG said:


> The reason why it is popular is because it is so good
> That's the way i see it anyway. It obviously appeals to a much wider variety of audience than Naruto does.
> I prefer One Piece to FMA to be honest, the FMA manga is so much better than the anime. I'm not saying the anime is terrible but it would have been better if it followed the manga. Anyway we digress, this is about OP and Narupoop
> Wait this is the manga section lolz
> Yeah FMA is slightly more epic, but I still prefer one piece due to Odas sheer genius



Yeah i agree about the FMA manga being alot better than the anime.

I consider FMA to be better than OP both anime and mangawise though (Excluding the FMA-movie which was mediocre).


----------



## Ennoea (May 15, 2008)

FMA anime is seriosuly overrated, it was average at best, I don't get why its regarded so highly.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (May 15, 2008)

CrimemasterGogo said:


> FMA anime is seriosuly overrated, it was average at best, I don't get why its regarded so highly.


----------



## Doom85 (May 15, 2008)

CrimemasterGogo said:


> FMA anime is seriosuly overrated, it was average at best, I don't get why its regarded so highly.



Hey, you all can insult Naruto and OP all you guys want (even if it annoys me), but nobody messes with FMA!!! Except Cowboy Bebop, which is my favorite anime.

But anyway, this is talking about manga series here, so let's stay on topic here.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (May 15, 2008)

never heard of him-but is his music the 3th all time most listened to?I thinkj not.


----------



## Sylar (May 15, 2008)

Justin Timberlake (he was the lead singer for Nsync, which you wouldn't know unless A) you like music a lot or B) you are/were a teenage girl) is NOT the 3rd best selling artist. Hell he's not even the 30th.

Bad comparison is bad.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (May 15, 2008)

Sylar said:


> Justin Timberlake (he was the lead singer for Nsync, which you wouldn't know unless A) you like music a lot or B) you are/were a teenage girl) is NOT the 3rd best selling artist. Hell he's not even the 30th.
> 
> Bad comparison is bad.



Sylar 

Did you find FMA anime average aswell?


----------



## Ennoea (May 15, 2008)

Just checked, Backstreet boys are apparently the biggest selling artists of the last two decades. I'd prefer Shitimberlake.


----------



## Sylar (May 15, 2008)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> Sylar
> 
> Did you find FMA anime average aswell?



Compared to the manga? Definately.

As a seperate standalone series? I liked the beginning and the middle parts however the end was just so WTF and bleh that as a whole I'd give it a B-.



CrimemasterGogo said:


> Just checked, Backstreet boys are apparently the biggest selling artists of the last two decades. I'd prefer Shitimberlake.


Only in terms of boy bands.

The Beatles among MANY other artists ,Aerosmith, Frank Sinatra, Elvis, etc,(after inflation is added of course) are still the highest selling artists. As for the past 20 or so years, Madonna, Celine Dion, A. R. Rahman, and Wei Wei (again, after inflation) have still sold more.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (May 15, 2008)

Sylar said:


> Compared to the manga? Definately.
> 
> As a seperate standalone series? I liked the beginning and the middle parts however the end was just so WTF and bleh that as a whole I'd give it a B-.



As standalone yes not including the movie. Greed vs Wrath in the manga was above anything in the anime and wankmaterial 

I started with the manga around chapter 25 where the anime diverted.

Was that the wrong chapter for me to swap you think?


----------



## Doom85 (May 15, 2008)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> As standalone yes not including the movie. Greed vs Wrath in the manga was above anything in the anime and wankmaterial



Wait, what do you mean? Do you mean the 1st Greed vs. Wrath, or Ling (pre-Greed) vs. Wrath? 

Personally, my favorite fight was Mustang/Havoc vs. Lust. I don't remember being so tense during a fight in a long time.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (May 15, 2008)

Doom85 said:


> Wait, what do you mean? Do you mean the 1st Greed vs. Wrath, or Ling (pre-Greed) vs. Wrath?
> 
> Personally, my favorite fight was Mustang/Havoc vs. Lust. I don't remember being so tense during a fight in a long time.



The first Wrath vs Greed yes. The one that started at the point where the anime diverted.


----------



## Razor Ramon HG (May 15, 2008)

What we need is FMA Ultimate OVA series in the same way as Hellsing that follow the manga directly. Don't think it would happen but a man can dream...

Anyway on topic, OP vs Naruto is so not worth debating that people are now talking about FMA and music...


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (May 15, 2008)

Razor Ramon HG said:


> What we need is FMA Ultimate OVA series in the same way as Hellsing that follow the manga directly. Don't think it would happen but a man can dream...
> 
> Anyway on topic, OP vs Naruto is so not worth debating that people are now talking about FMA and music...



Thats what i am waiting for 

If it gets nicely animated like the FMA anime it will be epic 

And dont rule it out when the FMA manga is over, might happen then ya know.


----------



## Sylar (May 15, 2008)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> As standalone yes not including the movie. Greed vs Wrath in the manga was above anything in the anime and wankmaterial
> 
> I started with the manga around chapter 25 where the anime diverted.
> 
> Was that the wrong chapter for me to swap you think?



The manga and anime have really only small differences seemingly in the beginning however they become important later on, so I'd go ahead and just start at the beginning of the manga.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (May 15, 2008)

Sylar said:


> The manga and anime have really only small differences seemingly in the beginning however they become important later on, so I'd go ahead and just start at the beginning of the manga.



Hm i got the impression there wasnt any differences until the Greed-arc when it diverted as i kind of looked through some of the early chapters to compare 

I think i continue from where i am now since it might be a pain reading stuff i have already seen in the anime :/

Besides i doubt my impression will change if i miss those minor details 

But thats me, thanks though


----------



## Amatsu (May 15, 2008)

Kitty Litter said:


> The statement is outrageous because Naruto is being called a damn masterpiece (although that OP stays the same thing doesn't make much sense either).
> 
> I like OP a lot more than Naruto, but OP is FAR from a masterpiece.
> 
> But this thread has been garbage for a while so...



Yeah One Piece isn't a masterpiece but it sure is heck more of a masterpiece than Naruto is.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (May 15, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Yeah One Piece isn't a masterpiece but it sure is heck more of a masterpiece than Naruto is.



If we were to compare those two Naruto would make OP look like a masterpiece is what i would say.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (May 15, 2008)

I'd like to know what Criteria a masterpiece has.Influence-if so.Dragonball would be one-but it's not that great,and it's second half is just without thought alltogether.


----------



## Amatsu (May 15, 2008)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> If we were to compare those two Naruto would make OP look like a masterpiece is what i would say.



and that I believe is my argument as well so I agree.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (May 15, 2008)

Aethos said:


> and that I believe is my argument as well so I agree.



I see. The way you worded it led me to believe that Naruto could also be a masterpiece


----------



## Taleran (May 15, 2008)

Why does it even matter if one or the other is a masterpiece or not


all that matters is if *you* like it, and it seems like we've gone in circles again about how x number of fans must = quality 


oh joy




> I'd like to know what Criteria a masterpiece has.Influence-if so.Dragonball would be one-but it's not that great,and it's second half is just without thought alltogether.





> uhm,so if it isnt a masterpiece,why is all time number 3?




IRONY!


----------



## Amatsu (May 15, 2008)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> I see. The way you worded led me to believe that Naruto could also be a masterpiece



Nah the only thing Naruto is worthy of. Is being something to wipe your ass with when you don't got any toilet paper left. If we were to try judging it as a masterpiece.

It's funny how the Naruto fandom and the FF7 fandom are so identical though. I mean when you look at both overrated and overhyped series and then you see the fans that praise those series to ridiculous levels. It's just rather surprising. Naruto truly is the FF7 of US anime fads.


----------



## Doom85 (May 15, 2008)

Taleran said:


> Why does it even matter if one or the other is a masterpiece or not
> 
> 
> all that matters is if *you* like it, and it seems like we've gone in circles again about how x number of fans must = quality
> ...



I thought the entire point of this thread was belittling other's opinions. Guess I missed the point entirely.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (May 15, 2008)

Taleran- popularity does not equal influence,at least not directly,ergo it isn't ironic.


----------



## Taleran (May 15, 2008)

wasn't talking bout influence, you said One Piece is masterpiece because it was popular, and Dragonball isn't because the 2nd half is lacking different standards for different mangas?


----------



## Ennoea (May 15, 2008)

> It's funny how the Naruto fandom and the FF7 fandom are so identical though. I mean when you look at both overrated and overhyped series and then you see the fans that praise those series to ridiculous levels. It's just rather surprising. Naruto truly is the FF7 of US anime fads.



That honor goes to DBZ, utter rubbish from what I read.


----------



## Doom85 (May 15, 2008)

CrimemasterGogo said:


> That honor goes to DBZ, utter rubbish from what I read.



LMAO, even as a DBZ fan, I agree with that. DBZ fanboys are scary. If you say even one tiny incorrect thing regarding power levels on the IMDb DBZ board, you're chewed alive by dozens of crazy posters. Other fanboys don't even compare.


----------



## Amatsu (May 15, 2008)

CrimemasterGogo said:


> That honor goes to DBZ, utter rubbish from what I read.



Not really DBZ these days is rather hated... That died years ago. Naruto has been a FF7 level fad since it began since the fans have overrated and overhyped it even before it came to our shores.


----------



## Amatsu (May 15, 2008)

Taleran said:


> wasn't talking bout influence, you said One Piece is masterpiece because it was popular, and Dragonball isn't because the 2nd half is lacking different standards for different mangas?



well if we're talking about what would make a series a masterpiece then there are a few things. The plot and writing, the way characters are handled and used, and probably a few other things. Heck the epic feeling people get from reading One Piece alone is why many people feel it's a masterpiece because when you compare it to other long running shounen mangas there's justnothing else like it.


----------



## Ennoea (May 15, 2008)

> died years ago. Naruto has been a FF7 level fad since it began since the fans have overrated and overhyped it even before it came to our shores.



Not really, this is a Naruto board and look at the amount of hate the manga gets on a weekly basis? The critique is pretty fair.

Anyway Naruto is a good manga, just not as great as some make it out to be.


----------



## MdB (May 15, 2008)

CrimemasterGogo said:


> Anyway Naruto is a good manga, just not as great as some make it out to be.



Maybe 4 or 5 years ago.


----------



## Ennoea (May 15, 2008)

In comparison it fails hard to alot of manga's but its still decent, tho its still kinda riding the momentum from Part 1. Part 2 on its own is close to rubbish. Tho having said that not every OP arc is great, Skypiea and TB bordered on painful at times.


----------



## Gary (May 15, 2008)

the only think naruto beats op in is how many many kills there are


----------



## Amatsu (May 15, 2008)

I do think it's funny how the Naruto fans try to argue that people being killed along with character deaths and shit are the most important thing to a manga series because it promotes "maturity"



CrimemasterGogo said:


> Not really, this is a Naruto board and look at the amount of hate the manga gets on a weekly basis? The critique is pretty fair.
> 
> Anyway Naruto is a good manga, just not as great as some make it out to be.



most of the criticism though comes from Sasuke haters.


----------



## Gary (May 15, 2008)

^ lol shouen isn't suppouse to be about maturity lol


----------



## C. Hook (May 15, 2008)

Didn't anyone see my The Lion King/Halo 3 reference? A shitload more people die in Halo 3, but The Lion King is MUCH better in terms of plot. 

As for One Piece being a masterpiece, it isn't. Then again, there are many very good movies that are not considered masterpieces. I find it nice how Oda is currently the only one of the popular trinity of Shounen churning out quality. Kubo sucks, and Kishi often makes extremely poor choices.

As for the Full Metal Alchemist manga, it's amazing, but I wouldn't call it a masterpiece. The beginning is extremely rushed, and the art started out a bit blander as well. Still, it's way better than One Piece. That doesn't mean I don't like One Piece (It's my second favorite manga/anime, beating out Death Note.), but FMA is a damn good comic.


----------



## Gary (May 15, 2008)

C. Hook said:


> Didn't anyone see my The Lion King/Halo 3 reference? A shitload more people die in Halo 3, but The Lion King is MUCH better in terms of plot.
> 
> As for One Piece being a masterpiece, it isn't. Then again, there are many very good movies that are not considered masterpieces. I find it nice how Oda is currently the only one of the popular trinity of Shounen churning out quality. Kubo sucks, and Kishi often makes extremely poor choices.
> 
> As for the Full Metal Alchemist manga, it's amazing, but I wouldn't call it a masterpiece. The beginning is extremely rushed, and the art started out a bit blander as well. Still, it's way better than One Piece. That doesn't mean I don't like One Piece (It's my second favorite manga/anime, beating out Death Note.), but FMA is a damn good comic.



also no such thing as a master piece but better than most of the shouen manga right now


----------



## Ennoea (May 15, 2008)

FMA is probably the best shonen manga right now.


----------



## C. Hook (May 15, 2008)

CrimemasterGogo said:


> FMA is probably the best shonen manga right now.



Couldn't agree more. However, in my opinion, One Piece takes second place out of the ones I've read.


----------



## Parallax (May 15, 2008)

CrimemasterGogo said:


> FMA is probably the best shonen manga right now.



arguably very true, though I prefer SBR, HxH, and OP over it.


----------



## Gary (May 15, 2008)

CrimemasterGogo said:


> FMA is probably the best shonen manga right now.



mayby i should read it i only read for the first 5 chapters and it was ok but didn't get my attention


----------



## MdB (May 15, 2008)

No love for HXH?


----------



## C-Moon (May 15, 2008)

Nuzzie said:


> I agree. Naruto completely outclasses One Piece in every category.



This is worse than Seiko.


----------



## Sylar (May 15, 2008)

MdB said:


> No love for HXH?



Well FMA is going to end in about 2 or 3 more years, OP is going to last about 10 more if Oda DIDN'T give a lower estimate (which he probably did), and HxH probably won't end for another 20 years. However it won't reach 500 chapters.


----------



## Doom85 (May 15, 2008)

i hate sasuke said:


> ^ lol shouen isn't suppouse to be about maturity lol



Death Note begs to differ.....


----------



## San Juan Wolf (May 15, 2008)

Uhm-Taleran-the things youve quoted were:

"I'd like to know what Criteria a masterpiece has.*Influence*-if so.Dragonball would be one-but it's not that great,and it's second half is just without thought alltogether." 

Quote:
uhm,so if it isnt a masterpiece,why is all time number 3?" (regarding sales)  

Im talking about two diferent things there.


----------



## MdB (May 15, 2008)

Sylar said:


> Well FMA is going to end in about 2 or 3 more years, OP is going to last about 10 more if Oda DIDN'T give a lower estimate (which he probably did), and HxH probably won't end for another 20 years. However it won't reach 500 chapters.



I'd rather have 20/30 solid chapters per year than the stupid garbage that we get from authors like Kubo and Kishimoto.

I know you like HXH.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (May 15, 2008)

I started with HxH 2 weeks ago. I love it so far being currently in the York Shin City arc.

However Togashi better stop with the long hitauses after the current one.. 

He promised he will work hard this time to come back..

However cant say that i am confident that one comment like that will change anything


----------



## Gary (May 15, 2008)

Doom85 said:


> Death Note begs to differ.....



except it has a moral


----------



## Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki (May 15, 2008)

Aethos said:


> most of the criticism though comes from Sasuke haters.



That might be because you interpret cricism of the manga as criticism of Sasuke?

Essentially the plot has been twisted into being entirely Uchiha-centric right now. It's pretty obvious that a lot of people are going to get annoyed.


----------



## MuNaZ (May 15, 2008)

Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki said:


> That might be because you interpret cricism of the manga as criticism of Sasuke?
> 
> Essentially the plot has been twisted into being entirely Uchiha-centric right now. It's pretty obvious that a lot of people are going to get annoyed.



if the story was actually interesting... it wouldn't be THAT bad (sasuke sucks so it would always be bad....)... but damn.... the last twist on the manga it crossed my mind when we first saw the flashback Itachi killing the clan and all... how long that was?


----------



## Amatsu (May 15, 2008)

Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki said:


> That might be because you interpret cricism of the manga as criticism of Sasuke?
> 
> Essentially the plot has been twisted into being entirely Uchiha-centric right now. It's pretty obvious that a lot of people are going to get annoyed.



As far as I can tell the entire plot of Naruto has been Uchiha centric. Naruto has done nothing to even get close to his goal of hokage. If Naruto does become Hokage by the end of the series it won't make any sense since it'll seem like it was just given to him so his dream could be fulfilled and Kishi can end the manga.


----------



## Amatsu (May 15, 2008)

> Well FMA is going to end in about 2 or 3 more years, OP is going to last about 10 more if Oda DIDN'T give a lower estimate (which he probably did), and HxH probably won't end for another 20 years. However it won't reach 500 chapters.



FMA is practically at the final battle. I doubt it's going to take 2 or 3 years.

But yeah HxH, FMA, Yu Yu Hakusho and heck I'd even say Gash Bell have some damn good quality when it comes to plot and characters.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (May 15, 2008)

Aethos said:


> FMA is practically at the final battle. I doubt it's going to take 2 or 3 years.
> 
> But yeah HxH, FMA, Yu Yu Hakusho and heck I'd even say Gash Bell have some damn good quality when it comes to plot and characters.



It is? 

Maybe we can expect a OVA Series staying true to the manga in the near future then


----------



## Amatsu (May 15, 2008)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> It is?
> 
> Maybe we can expect a OVA Series staying true to the manga in the near future then



Yeah pretty much the final battle begins next month. If the end of chapter 83 says anything.


----------



## Rule (May 15, 2008)

Aethos said:


> As far as I can tell the entire plot of Naruto has been Uchiha centric. Naruto has done nothing to even get close to his goal of hokage. If Naruto does become Hokage by the end of the series it won't make any sense since it'll seem like it was just given to him so his dream could be fulfilled and Kishi can end the manga.



Sort of like Luffy huh. I read Both Naruto and the Piece and the entire plot of One Piece has been _rescue arcs_. Luffy really ain't doing anything to reach his goal of Pirate King (One Piece)really. It's a "we'll get there when we get there" type of feeling.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (May 15, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Yeah pretty much the final battle begins next month. If the end of chapter 83 says anything.



I need to catch up quickly then. I am quite a bunch of chapters behind 

Its almost time to start with HxH manga also when i am done with the anime.

Gonna be a pain when i am done with chapter 280 waiting for the hiatus to end


----------



## Parallax (May 15, 2008)

Rule said:


> Sort of like Luffy huh. I read Both Naruto and the Piece and the entire plot of One Piece has been _rescue arcs_. Luffy really ain't doing anything to reach his goal of Pirate King (One Piece)really. It's a "we'll get there when we get there" type of feeling.



Alabasta was a rescue arc?

Thriller Bark was a rescue arc?

Skypeia was a rescue arc?

Foxy was a rescue arc?

please think before you post


----------



## Amatsu (May 15, 2008)

Rule said:


> Sort of like Luffy huh. I read Both Naruto and the Piece and the entire plot of One Piece has been _rescue arcs_. Luffy really ain't doing anything to reach his goal of Pirate King (One Piece)really. It's a "we'll get there when we get there" type of feeling.



How so? Luffy has a 300 million bounty and is entering the second half of the grand line known as the new world. Once he reaches Raftel at the end of the new world he'll become the pirate king. I love it how people claim that Luffy hasn't made any progress towards being pirate king since they make it sound like Luffy's still in east blue or something. Luffy has made a ton of progress and has come a long way. More than I can say for Naruto who just runs around crying for his gay lover to come home.


----------



## Tash (May 15, 2008)

Elijah Snow said:


> arguably very true, though I prefer SBR, HxH, and OP over it.



SBR is shounen?


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (May 15, 2008)

Swajio said:


> SBR is shounen?



What else could it be? Seinen?


----------



## Amatsu (May 15, 2008)

Meh JJBA and Hokuto no Ken are the kinda shounen you read if you want some hot blooded manly fighting action. They're good but I'd say they're pretty generic where shounens are concerned.


----------



## Rule (May 15, 2008)

Elijah Snow said:


> Alabasta was a rescue arc?
> 
> Thriller Bark was a rescue arc?
> 
> ...



Romance Dawn arc: Rescue Shanks' Pride!!! Rescue Luffy!!! 
Captain Morgan arc: Rescue Zoro!!! 
Buggy arc: Rescue Town and Mayor!!! 
Kuro arc: Rescue Town and Kaya!!! 
Don Krieg arc: Rescue Floating Restaurant!!! 
Arlong arc: Rescue Town and Nami!!! 
Loguetown arc: Rescue Luffy!!! 
Reverse Mountain arc: Rescue Laboon!!! 
Whiskey Peak arc: Rescue Vivi!!! (aka Ms Wednesday)

Little Garden arc: Rescue Nami, Vivi and Zoro!!! 
Drum Island arc: Rescue Town!!! 
Alabasta arc: Rescue Country!!! (And Other Stuff Too!!!) 
Jaya arc: Rescue Cricket's Gold!!! 
Skypiea arc: Rescue Skypiea and Upper Yard!!! 
Davy Back Fight arc: Rescue Chopper!!! 
Water 7 arc: Begin Rescue Robin!!! 
Enies Lobby arc: Rescue Robin!!! 
Thriller Bark arc: Rescue Shadows!!! Rescue Nami, Chopper, and Ussop!!! 
Duval arc: Rescue Hatchan!!! 
Shabondy Archipelago arc: Rescue Camie!!! 



			
				Aethos said:
			
		

> How so? Luffy has a 300 million bounty and is entering the second half of the grand line known as the new world. Once he reaches Raftel at the end of the new world he'll become the pirate king. I love it how people claim that Luffy hasn't made any progress towards being pirate king since they make it sound like Luffy's still in east blue or something. Luffy has made a ton of progress and has come a long way. More than I can say for Naruto who just runs around crying for his gay lover to come home.



Really, think about it Luffy hasn't even made it to Fishmen island yet and he still is looking for crew members, all he does is save people over and over. Naruto is building he is getting stronger and he is on a mission to bring Saskue back and beat Akastuki.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (May 15, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Meh JJBA and Hokuto no Ken are the kinda shounen you read if you want some hot blooded manly fighting action. They're good but I'd say they're pretty generic where shounens are concerned.



How about Gash Bell? I saw a little capture of it on youtube and it looked.. freaky in its own unique way to say the least xD

And where is that cutie in your avatar from?


----------



## Tash (May 15, 2008)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> What else could it be? Seinen?



As far as I know, it is. Which is why it's published in UJ, instead of SJ.


----------



## Amatsu (May 15, 2008)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> How about Gash Bell? I saw a little capture of it on youtube and it looked.. freaky in its own unique way to say the least xD
> 
> And where is that cutie in your avatar from?



well the plot of Gash Bell is basically the Makai world tournament but the meat and potatoes of Gash Bell is it's characters and strategic fighting, but mostly how the characters interact.

When I look at JJBA and HnK I don't expect awesome character interaction or anything. I just expect badass fights because to me that's what those series represent and deliver on. Bleach tries to be like JJBA and HnK in that respect but it fails because it could never be anything like those two series. That's why Bleach is trash.

and my avatar is from Code Geass.



> Really, think about it Luffy hasn't even made it to Fishmen island yet and he still is looking for crew members, all he does is save people over and over. Naruto is building he is getting stronger and he is on a mission to bring Saskue back and beat Akastuki.



That's because Oda knows how to pace himself while Kishimoto knows how to rush and fuck up the story at the same time.

Also Luffy hasn't made it to Fishman Island yet because he has to get his boat prepared to sail down to there and Luffy has made no attempt at looking for a new crew member in this current arc.

But hey I guess you'd like One Piece more if it was as simplistic as Naruto where all the characters are introduced all at once and the plot consisted of killing off nine people.

Fuck even HxH handles that kinda thing better with Kurapica's thing against the Genei Ryodan.


----------



## C-Moon (May 15, 2008)

Rule said:


> Romance Dawn arc: Rescue Shanks' Pride!!! Rescue Luffy!!!
> Captain Morgan arc: Rescue Zoro!!!
> Buggy arc: Rescue Town and Mayor!!!
> Kuro arc: Rescue Town and Kaya!!!
> ...




Here's Part 2 of Naruto in a nutshell, if you wanna play those kinds of games:

SASUKE! PLZ COME BACK!

See? I can overgeneralize too. The sad part is, this is mostly true. Naruto's on a mission? Wow, with all the Sharingan wank, I almost forgot.


----------



## Gary (May 15, 2008)

are we still talking about which is bettter Op or naruto ?


----------



## Rule (May 15, 2008)

Aethos said:


> That's because Oda knows how to pace himself while Kishimoto knows how to rush and fuck up the story at the same time.
> 
> Also Luffy hasn't made it to Fishman Island yet because he has to get his boat prepared to sail down to there and Luffy has made no attempt at looking for a new crew member in this current arc.
> 
> ...



The One Piece story is simple like Naruto's, It is rescue me arc. You seem too defensive over cartoons, calm down please.


----------



## C-Moon (May 15, 2008)

Rule said:


> The One Piece story is simple like Naruto's, It is rescue me arc. You seem too defensive over cartoons, calm down please.





At least those rescue arcs aren't failed repeats.


----------



## Gary (May 15, 2008)

he isn't that made


----------



## Amatsu (May 15, 2008)

> The One Piece story is simple like Naruto's, It is rescue me arc. You seem too defensive over cartoons, calm down please.



There are only TWO real rescue arcs in One Piece. The arlong arc and Eines Lobby. No others. You're mistaking One Piece for Bleach.


----------



## Amatsu (May 15, 2008)

I don't get how anyone could claim every arc in One Piece is a rescue arc when that simply isn't true. After all Naruto's running around like a chicken with it's head cut off trying to bring home Sasuke. Luffy's actually working his way towards being the pirate king.


----------



## Zephos (May 15, 2008)

Rule said:


> Sort of like Luffy huh. I read Both Naruto and the Piece and the entire plot of One Piece has been _rescue arcs_. Luffy really ain't doing anything to reach his goal of Pirate King (One Piece)really. It's a "we'll get there when we get there" type of feeling.



Hey Phenomonyl/WHITEBEARD/Psolras/FinalEnd.

Nice dupe account.


----------



## Supa Swag (May 15, 2008)

Rule said:


> Romance Dawn arc: Rescue Shanks' Pride!!! Rescue Luffy!!!
> Captain Morgan arc: Rescue Zoro!!!
> Buggy arc: Rescue Town and Mayor!!!
> Kuro arc: Rescue Town and Kaya!!!
> ...






Talk about nitpicking.


----------



## Dance (May 15, 2008)

Rule said:


> Romance Dawn arc: Rescue Shanks' Pride!!! Rescue Luffy!!!
> Captain Morgan arc: Rescue Zoro!!!
> Buggy arc: Rescue Town and Mayor!!!
> Kuro arc: Rescue Town and Kaya!!!
> ...


----------



## C. Hook (May 15, 2008)

Rule said:


> Romance Dawn arc: Rescue Shanks' Pride!!! Rescue Luffy!!! *Sure. While we're at it, let's rescue the bar that Higuma went to.*
> Captain Morgan arc: Rescue Zoro!!! *Actually, it's more like, rescue the town from under Morgan's fist. However, I doubt you noticed that. *
> Buggy arc: Rescue Town and Mayor!!! *Luffy didn't care about the fucking town. The mayor was kidnapped by Buggy? Sure, that's why he lead a mob against him.*
> Kuro arc: Rescue Town and Kaya!!! *Do you know what a rescue arc is? It's when the heros try to rescue someone who was kidnapped. Was Kaya suddenly kidnapped? Was the town captured by invisible pirates?*
> ...



Read One Piece, then we'll talk.




Rule said:


> Really, think about it Luffy hasn't even made it to Fishmen island yet and he still is looking for crew members, all he does is save people over and over. Naruto is building he is getting stronger and *he is on a mission to bring Saskue back* and beat Akastuki.



I laugh.


----------



## Amatsu (May 15, 2008)

I laugh too because Naruto's been on a mission to save Sasuke for 300 chapters.


----------



## Sylar (May 15, 2008)

@Taleran: You know good and damn well we'd be lucky to get to 20 chapters in a year. 

And I do like it. (Just not Gon, whom I hate.)



Aethos said:


> FMA is practically at the final battle. I doubt it's going to take 2 or 3 years.
> 
> But yeah HxH, FMA, Yu Yu Hakusho and heck I'd even say Gash Bell have some damn good quality when it comes to plot and characters.



According to Arakawa, the manga is going to get to at LEAST 100 chapters.


----------



## C. Hook (May 15, 2008)

Sylar said:


> According to Arakawa, the manga is going to get to at LEAST 100 chapters.



YES!!! This means the ending will have even more time to build up!!! I was afraid Arakawa would rush it like she did the beginning.


----------



## Dance (May 15, 2008)

C. Hook said:


> Read One Piece, then we'll talk.



There's really no point in arguing with him.

I mean, he copied a post from AP that was intended to be a obvious exaggeration 

and he used it as a serious arguing point...

so this leads to 2 options

1. he is a troll

2. he is a fucking retard

And if he's a dupe of who I think he is, then I think option two would be accurate


----------



## Sylar (May 15, 2008)

C. Hook said:


> YES!!! This means the ending will have even more time to build up!!! I was afraid Arakawa would rush it like she did the beginning.



Just imagine if the ending to FMA was like 666 Satan. :S

Scary thought huh?


----------



## blackness (May 16, 2008)

Let's face it. The Itachi-Flashback is so-so. People read it and think "Well, that makes sense." Nothing to write home about, nothing sad and not really shocking.... but at least it is still interesting. Kinda.

If it were a One Piece Flashback, it would've been so well written, people would feel truly sad for the characters and could have started to _cry_.

That's the difference, I guess.


----------



## Mat?icha (May 16, 2008)

you people really make me laugh. confirming each others post and thinking this is how it all should be. really pathetic.



			
				blackness said:
			
		

> If it were a One Piece Flashback, it would've been so well written, people would feel truly sad for the characters and could have started to _cry_.


 
this is beyond pathetic. just laughable.


----------



## Ennoea (May 16, 2008)

> If it were a One Piece Flashback, it would've been so well written, people would feel truly sad for the characters and could have started to cry.



Well I'll agree with OP being slightly better written but thats not the difference, Oda tends to go over top with his backstories, intentionally making you feel emotions, Kishi doesn't try that at all (especially lately).


----------



## San Juan Wolf (May 16, 2008)

Rule -so you'd rather see him get to Raftel magicaly across the whole world at chapter 5 with inhuman power ups and that's it?I mean,he's at least becoming stronger,gathering his crew and geting there bit by bit.I mean,how many chapters would the manga have if you'd have your way,6?


----------



## Supa Swag (May 16, 2008)

Sylar said:


> Just imagine if the ending to FMA was like 666 Satan. :S
> 
> Scary thought huh?



I would only have one reaction if that were to happen with FMA...


----------



## Stan Lee (May 16, 2008)

Naruto girls>>>>>(INFINITE!)>>>>>>>>> OP girls in terms of looks.


----------



## C. Hook (May 16, 2008)

Superman Prime said:


> Naruto girls>>>>>(INFINITE!)>>>>>>>>> OP girls in terms of looks.



Flat chests don't interest me. 

OP girls>>>>>>>>(Infinite)>>>>>>Naruto girls in terms of character.


----------



## Stan Lee (May 16, 2008)

C. Hook said:


> Flat chests don't interest me.
> 
> OP girls>>>>>>>>(Infinite)>>>>>>Naruto girls in terms of character.



Tsunade's Tits + her looks>>>>>>>>>>(INFINITE)>>>>>>>>OPverse.


----------



## Jotun (May 16, 2008)

I'll take a filled out brunette version of Uma Thurman over Tsunade anyday


----------



## Mat?icha (May 16, 2008)

Lobolover said:


> Rule -so you'd rather see him get to Raftel magicaly across the whole world at chapter 5 with inhuman power ups and that's it?I mean,he's at least becoming stronger,gathering his crew and geting there bit by bit.I mean,how many chapters would the manga have if you'd have your way,6?


 

right, if you wait like a hundreds years, oda's grand children will finally finish OP, with this pace he wont finish by the time he dies.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (May 16, 2008)

Mat?icha said:


> right, if you wait like a hundreds years, oda's grand children will finally finish OP, with this pace he wont finish by the time he dies.



Ye its gonna take hundred of years with the SH being roughly halfway in the GL now 

Keep on trolling.


----------



## MdB (May 16, 2008)

Mat?icha said:


> right, if you wait like a hundreds years, oda's grand children will finally finish OP, *with this pace *he wont finish by the time he dies.



LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!111!1




Troll harder.


----------



## Doom85 (May 16, 2008)

MdB said:


> LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!111!1
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Did I miss something here? What do those two random pictures have to do with anything? Granted, anyone who thinks it will take OP decades to finish is a freakin' moron, but Naruto will probably wrap up first, it seems to have about 100 chapters left or so.

But I'm confused about those pcitures. If you were trying to make a point, it could have been a lot less subtle.....


----------



## Amatsu (May 16, 2008)

Kitty Litter said:


> I would only have one reaction if that were to happen with FMA...



I agree. I'd be the same way too so thank goodness Arakawa doesn't suck like the Kishimoto brothers.


----------



## MdB (May 16, 2008)

Doom85 said:


> Did I miss something here? What do those two random pictures have to do with anything? Granted, anyone who thinks it will take OP decades to finish is a freakin' moron, but Naruto will probably wrap up first, it seems to have about 100 chapters left or so.
> 
> But I'm confused about those pcitures. If you were trying to make a point, it could have been a lot less subtle.....



Yes you did. Look at the chapter numbers.


----------



## Amatsu (May 16, 2008)

You know in a way I think I've changed my mind about the Naruto fans. Because if I keep getting flamed by JJBA fans through PMs and neg reps because I called JJBA an average series and not "TEH GREATEST THING EVER WRITTEN!!!111" I'm going to start thinking they're worse than even the DBZ fans.

Heck it's not like I said the seires sucked or anything. I said it was good. I just think it's average since it's obviosuly made for people who enjoy watching badass dudes walk around kicking the crap out of each other cause they feel like it. I mean that's cool and all. I think it's very appealing... but it doesn't really make my top 3 favorite series or anything.


----------



## Doom85 (May 16, 2008)

MdB said:


> Yes you did. Look at the chapter numbers.



306 and 340? Okay, one of them is during the climax of the Sasuke/Sai arc, and the other is during the climax of the Hidan/Kakuza arc. If this is a comment about Naruto's pace, then I'm not following. Both Kishi and Oda use battles that last multiple chapters, and they're hardly the only ones.

Maybe you're referring to the side comment on the 306 one. Okay, so there was a lot of Shikamaru/Hidan/Kakuza focus before Naruto finally got his "big adventure" (or rather, big jutsu), I'm not sure how that applies to the pace of the story though. The arc ultimately ended with two Akatsuki dead, Naruto has a new jutsu, Asuma dead, and Shikamaru becoming the new leader of Team 10. That's not a bad amount of story development for 35 or so chapters. Oda gets about the same amount accomplished in such a time.

Note: Before some noob opens their mouth, this is OT and has nothing to do with "OP vs. Naruto quality-wise" (should read "OP vs. Naruto - your own OPINION on the matter). I'm simply discussing the pace of each story.


----------



## MdB (May 16, 2008)

Jedus crist, not a goddamn thing happened in those chapters. We got entire pages with only shadeless faces or a failed attempt to defeat Kakuzu that lasted an entire chapter. That's what I call terrible pacing, terrible pacing that makes a final anti-climatic.


----------



## Dio Brando (May 16, 2008)

Swajio said:


> SBR is shounen?



The first few volumes or so yes.



Aethos said:


> You know in a way I think I've changed my mind about the Naruto fans. Because if I keep getting flamed by JJBA fans through PMs and neg reps because I called JJBA an average series and not "TEH GREATEST THING EVER WRITTEN!!!111" I'm going to start thinking they're worse than even the DBZ fans.
> 
> Heck it's not like I said the seires sucked or anything. I said it was good. I just think it's average since it's obviosuly made for people who enjoy watching badass dudes walk around kicking the crap out of each other cause they feel like it. I mean that's cool and all. I think it's very appealing... but it doesn't really make my top 3 favorite series or anything.



You said that JJBA and HnK were generic when both are anything but. I don't care if you like it or not, but to dismiss either as generic is ignorant. And 'feel like it'? Hell when most characters beat someone, it's because they feel like it for some reason.


----------



## Amatsu (May 16, 2008)

Dio Brando said:


> You said that JJBA and HnK were generic when both are anything but. I don't care if you like it or not, but to dismiss either as generic is ignorant. And 'feel like it'? Hell when most characters beat someone, it's because they feel like it for some reason.



What's wrong with me thinking they're generic fighting shounens? From what I've seen that is what they are. I'm not being ignorant for thinking that series that rely more on the fights are just plain average, and what is the average shounen if not a generic fighting series?

Honestly with the way you guys get on my back when I defend One Piece you're coming off far worse than I do.


----------



## Sasuke_fanboy (May 16, 2008)

I agree with Aethos, Jojo Bizarre adventure is one of the most generic shounen I've ever read, its nowhere near the level of a masterpiece like Naruto.


----------



## Amatsu (May 16, 2008)

nah JJBA is definitely better than Naruto...


----------



## Sasuke_fanboy (May 16, 2008)

Naruto is masterpiece on the level of Shakespeare's Macbeth


----------



## Dio Brando (May 16, 2008)

Aethos said:


> What's wrong with me thinking they're generic fighting shounens? From what I've seen that is what they are. I'm not being ignorant for thinking that series that rely more on the fights are just plain average, and what is the average shounen if not a generic fighting series?
> 
> Honestly with the way you guys get on my back when I defend One Piece you're coming off far worse than I do.


Not all shonen is fighting. Lots of sports manga are shonen as well amongst other types of manga. They're not generic because a) Fist of the North Star was one of the first fighting mangas and the inspiration to most others b) Jojo is constantly changing as Araki always wants to do "something new" in his manga and the series reflects that. That you dismiss them as generic is nonsense. Besides just because a series has fighting (LOL Naruto and OP) doesn't  necessarily make them generic or unoriginal. 

BTW who is YOU GUYS exactly?



Sasuke_fanboy said:


> I agree with Aethos, Jojo Bizarre adventure is one of the most generic shounen I've ever read, its nowhere near the level of a masterpiece like Naruto.



As if you've read it, troll.


----------



## C-Moon (May 16, 2008)

Mat?icha said:


> right, if you wait like a hundreds years, oda's grand children will finally finish OP, with this pace he wont finish by the time he dies.




I'd rather have a large story with quality over what Kishi's currently shitting out. Fail somewhere else.


----------



## Sasuke_fanboy (May 16, 2008)

MdB said:


> And your a giant ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) on the level of Seiko.


Oh ma god suman is insulted me on the internets.
*wrist*


----------



## C-Moon (May 16, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> I love the recent plot developments, so I'm not hurtin'. heck, *madara stating only a sharingan user can kill another sharingan user made the chapter win.*




Yet Itachi ran from Gai *and* Jiraiya. Let me address the bolded part. Is it too much to ask to be introduced to a character who doesn't give a shit about Sharingan?


----------



## Sasuke_fanboy (May 16, 2008)

Gamma Akutabi said:


> Yet Itachi ran from Gai *and* Jiraiya.


cuz Good guys don't kill other good guys.


----------



## Stan Lee (May 16, 2008)

Gamma Akutabi said:


> Yet Itachi ran from Gai *and* Jiraiya. Let me address the bolded part. Is it too much to ask to be introduced to a character who doesn't give a shit about Sharingan?



Didn't you read the last chapter?



Jotun said:


> I'll take a filled out brunette version of Uma Thurman over Tsunade anyday



Bad taste you got there bud.


----------



## C-Moon (May 16, 2008)

@fanboy: He still killed Jinchuuriki for the purpose of sealing bijuu. 


@Superman Prime: Yes, I read the latest chapter. Don't blame me for no longer giving a shit about Madara's story.


----------



## Stan Lee (May 16, 2008)

@Gamma Akutabi-I was talking about Itachi's.


----------



## Amatsu (May 16, 2008)

Dio Brando said:


> Not all shonen is fighting. Lots of sports manga are shonen as well amongst other types of manga. They're not generic because a) Fist of the North Star was one of the first fighting mangas and the inspiration to most others b) Jojo is constantly changing as Araki always wants to do "something new" in his manga and the series reflects that. That you dismiss them as generic is nonsense. Besides just because a series has fighting (LOL Naruto and OP) doesn't  necessarily make them generic or unoriginal.
> 
> BTW who is YOU GUYS exactly?



Meh for some reason I always put the sports series into it's own genre all together, but I do see your point. I'm not saying that those series weren't influential either. I always saw JJBA as a generic fighting shounen because it concentrates more on fighting and character interaction than story. To me JJBA and HnK aren't series you read because of the plot. You read them because you wanna see some badass fighting action. 

And well I wasn't saying that JJBA being generic is a bad thing either. Though maybe I should have phrased it differently. I wasn't trying to insult JJBA or it's fans if that's what you thought. If I did though then sorry about that. I don't have any ill will towards the series or it's fans.

As for who "those guys" are. I'm referring to the ones that get on my case all the time and call me a OPTard for defending One Piece. I mean with all the crap I get from them about how I defend One Piece I expected better from them when it comes to defending their favorite series.


----------



## Yak (May 16, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> I agree with Aethos, Jojo Bizarre adventure is one of the most generic shounen I've ever read, its nowhere near the level of a masterpiece like Naruto.



If your giantly inflated fanboy cock wouldn't block your sight on reason you wouldn't spout such pisspoor inane bullshit and realize the truth.


----------



## MdB (May 16, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> I love the recent plot developments, so I'm not hurtin'. heck, madara stating only a sharingan user can kill another sharingan user made the chapter win.



There's no need to hide it, even Madara's speech is contradicted by Shodai's actions. You're butthurt to the max, even your fanboys wet dreams are contradicted by the actual plot developments.


----------



## Razor Ramon HG (May 16, 2008)

Naruto fantards make me laugh.
This topic is full of fail and troll.
One Piece > Naruto and that is fact.
I'm pretty sure Kishimoto faps to Uchiha porn he draws himself


----------



## Giorno Giovannax (May 16, 2008)

The amount of fail in this thread is disturbingly laughable.


----------



## Fang (May 16, 2008)

You need a Sharingan to defeat a Sharingan User? Why was it Madara with EMS got his ass kicked despite having the Kyuubi against just Hashirama/Shodai?


----------



## Aokiji (May 16, 2008)

Sasuke_fanboy said:


> I agree with Aethos, Jojo Bizarre adventure is one of the most generic shounen I've ever read, its nowhere near the level of a masterpiece like Naruto.



.


.


.


.


.


.


Users computer collapsed, because it couldn't handle the amount of times he wanted to type lol.


----------



## Aldric (May 16, 2008)

I love how Aethos thinks whole fanbases are out to get him

While it's just people reacting to the utterly stupid shit he posts

Like calling fucking JJBA generic

Out of all shonen, JJBA is generic

Aethos


----------



## Dio Brando (May 16, 2008)

Aldric said:


> I love how Aethos thinks whole fanbases are out to get him
> 
> While it's just people reacting to the utterly stupid shit he posts
> 
> ...


And Fist of the North Star. A huge influence on even Dragon Ball, countless other shonen and hell even Berserk. 


Aokiji said:


> Whoever banned MdB for flaming should ban Sasuke fapboy for stupidity flamebaiting.


Aye.


----------



## Kamen Rider Ryoma (May 16, 2008)

Aethos said:


> Meh for some reason I always put the sports series into it's own genre all together, but I do see your point. I'm not saying that those series weren't influential either. I always saw JJBA as a generic fighting shounen because it concentrates more on fighting and character interaction than story. To me JJBA and HnK aren't series you read because of the plot. You read them because you wanna see some badass fighting action.






Sorry, but that is so wrong... You read Fist of the North Star because of the awesome characters and the emotions they can inspire. Do you even realize how brutally short the  fights in FotNS are?


----------



## Fang (May 16, 2008)

Wait...so now JJBA, FoTNS, Dragonball and One Piece are generic as well?


----------



## Aldric (May 16, 2008)

It's like saying Berserk is too childish or something

How does he come up with that stuff


----------



## King Dead (May 16, 2008)

Man, saying that Hokuto no Ken has no real plot or character interaction just shows that you know next to nothing about it. Honestly, I think its story tops most modern shonen around today.

And calling JoJo's Bizarre Adventure "generic" is just stupid, if you don't mind me saying. And it probably means you've only read a few chapters of part 1.


----------



## Aokiji (May 16, 2008)

King Dead said:


> Man, saying that Hokuto no Ken has no real plot or character interaction just shows that you know next to nothing about it. Honestly, I think its story tops most modern shonen around today.
> 
> And calling JoJo's Bizarre Adventure "generic" is just stupid, if you don't mind me saying. And it probably means you've only read a few chapters of part 1.



Of all adjectives that can be attached to a manga you, choose _generic_ to describe JJBA? Aethos, are you clinically retarded?


----------



## Aldric (May 16, 2008)

JJBA, Fist of the North Star and Bastard!! were actually more seinen than shonen

The 80's Shonen Jump had stuff that could never be published in the same mag nowadays


----------



## Kamen Rider Ryoma (May 16, 2008)

Aldric said:


> JJBA, Fist of the North Star and Bastard!! were actually more seinen than shonen
> 
> The 80's Shonen Jump had stuff that could never be published in the same mag nowadays



JJBA up to Part 6 was still considered Shounen (and that came out not too long ago compared to when the manga started). Only Steel Ball Run is Seinen.

Bastard!! has been moved to a seinen magazine just a few volumes after it has been published as shounen. Back then in the 80's.

Fist of the Blue Sky is considered seinen. Fist of the North Star is still shounen.

And really... read Hunter x Hunter. You have people being cut to pieces, ripped apart, eaten...etc. etc. etc. and it's still shounen.

Get Backers is shounen and is quite brutal as well.


----------



## Aokiji (May 16, 2008)

Ryoma Nagare said:


> JJBA up to Part 6 was still considered Shounen (and that came out not too long ago compared to when the manga started). Only Steel Ball Run is Seinen.
> 
> Bastard!! has been moved to a seinen magazine just a few volumes after it has been published as shounen. Back then in the 80's.
> 
> ...



srsly, who cares? Tim Duncan plays Power Forward, yet we all know he's center.  It's the same with manga.


----------



## Ennoea (May 16, 2008)

JJBA is anything but generic, bad move there Aethos.



> The 80's Shonen Jump had stuff that could never be published in the same mag nowadays



HxH is fairly gruesome at times, limbs flying, bodies being ripped, little girls getting their heads taken off, its probably the only current SJ manga that gets away with it.


----------



## Aldric (May 16, 2008)

Ryoma Nagare said:


> JJBA up to Part 6 was still considered Shounen (and that came out not too long ago compared to when the manga started). Only Steel Ball Run is Seinen.
> 
> Bastard!! has been moved to a seinen magazine just a few volumes after it has been published as shounen. Back then in the 80's.
> 
> ...



Way to miss the point

Of course if you only look at the magazine they're published in they're shonen

I was talking about the content, how neither Kenshiro, the JJBA guys or DS behaved even remotely like "generic" shonen heroes like Goku, Luffy, Naruto or Gon, how Bastard!! for ex made a mockery of shonen staples (like Bon Jovina trying to lecture DS on the way to deal with vicious opponents), the stories that were nothing like "young boy rises at the top of his field" etc


----------



## King Dead (May 16, 2008)

I honestly never thought that HXH was that brutal

I mean yeah it's a little more gruesome than things like Naruto and One Piece, but series like JoJo and Bastard!! thoroughly trump it in that department


----------



## Stan Lee (May 16, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> You need a Sharingan to defeat a Sharingan User? Why was it Madara with EMS got his ass kicked despite having the Kyuubi against just Hashirama/Shodai?



Phailure much? The first could control demons like the kyuubi  and darkness jutsu to blind the sharingan duh.


----------



## Ennoea (May 16, 2008)

From the current crop I'd say HxH is probably the most brutal, but its still Shonen. And isn't Bastard a Senien manga?


----------



## Codde (May 16, 2008)

CrimemasterGogo said:


> HxH is fairly gruesome at times, limbs flying, bodies being ripped, little girls getting their heads taken off, its probably the only current SJ manga that gets away with it.


Earlier on the NGL arc, the chapters in the magazine (not sure they were removed for the volume releases) had large black censor boxes over various scenes. So not really getting away with it in a sense. Of course the same may have been true for certain older Shounen since the volume releases are probaby the only thing available now.


----------



## Fang (May 16, 2008)

Superman Prime said:


> Phailure much? The first could control demons like the kyuubi  and darkness jutsu to blind the sharingan duh.



Wrong. Itachi and Jiraiya both said that Madara can control the Kyuubi like the pet.

Both could control the Kyuubi. And provide evidence that a sight based genjutsu is going to overcome the Evolved Mangekyou Sharingan when its a doujutsu meant solely for hypnosis, and sight based illusionary techniques.

And thanks for the third or fourth neg in less then a month and half. You've been reported, again.


----------



## Kamen Rider Ryoma (May 16, 2008)

Aldric said:


> Way to miss the point
> 
> Of course if you only look at the magazine they're published in they're shonen
> 
> I was talking about the content, how neither Kenshiro, the JJBA guys or DS behaved even remotely like "generic" shonen heroes like Goku, Luffy, Naruto or Gon, how Bastard!! for ex made a mockery of shonen staples (like Bon Jovina trying to lecture DS on the way to deal with vicious opponents), the stories that were nothing like "young boy rises at the top of his field" etc





Those shounen cliches didn't even exist back then, at least for Fist of the North Star. Heck, it's pretty much the grandfather for shounen.

And don't forget that Goku only became a 'softy' after his training with Kami. Previously he had no problems with murdering the entire Red Ribbon Army.


----------



## Stan Lee (May 16, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Wrong. Itachi and Jiraiya both said that Madara can control the Kyuubi like the pet.
> 
> Both could control the Kyuubi. And provide evidence that a sight based genjutsu is going to overcome the Evolved Mangekyou Sharingan when its a doujutsu meant solely for hypnosis, and sight based illusionary techniques.



With the help of darkness jutsu.



Mirai Gohan said:


> And thanks for the third or fourth neg in less then a month and half. You've been reported, again.




Wrong.First this month and 1 or 2 last month.


----------



## King Dead (May 16, 2008)

Ryoma Nagare said:


> Those shounen cliches didn't even exist back then, at least for Fist of the North Star. Heck, it's pretty much the grandfather for shounen.
> 
> And don't forget that Goku only became a 'softy' after his training with Kami. Previously he had no problems with murdering the entire Red Ribbon Army.


this just in: manga apparently didn't exist before the 1980's


----------



## Fang (May 16, 2008)

Superman Prime said:


> With the help of darkness jutsu.
> 
> And thanks for the third or fourth neg in less then a month and half. You've been reported, again.
> 
> Wrong.First this month and one last month.



Congradulations on ignorning the concept of burden of proof. Secondly, you've negged me multiple times without any reason. All of my negs have been because of that.


----------



## Taleran (May 16, 2008)

CrimemasterGogo said:


> From the current crop I'd say HxH is probably the most brutal, but its still Shonen. And isn't Bastard a Senien manga?




its been said countless time but Bastard!! started its run in WSJ


----------



## ShadeCrow (May 16, 2008)

Why can't we all just get along!?


----------



## MuNaZ (May 16, 2008)

ShadeCrow said:


> Why can't we all just get along!?



why can't i like you avy 

wait now uchiha tards are claiming that only uchiha can beat uchiha? am i reading right? i better get new eyes...


----------



## Doom85 (May 16, 2008)

ShadeCrow said:


> Why can't we all just get along!?



We all have assholes.....I mean, we all have opinions. Sorry, don't know how I mixed those two up.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (May 16, 2008)

I hope this thread gets trashed soon, the revival didnt change much causing only additional Uchihatardism..

HxH vs OP would have been a much fairer thread imo.

Or Bleach vs Naruto


----------



## Ennoea (May 16, 2008)

Well bastard might have started as a Shonen, but we all know its Senien.


----------



## Gary (May 16, 2008)

CrimemasterGogo said:


> Well bastard might have started as a Shonen, but we all know its Senien.



yes it is


----------



## Kamen Rider Ryoma (May 16, 2008)

King Dead said:


> this just in: manga apparently didn't exist before the 1980's





Way to miss the point. Of course manga existed before. Now tell me of a shounen manga that was as influential as Fist of the North Star to the genre Shounen that came out before FotNS.

Keep in mind that FotNS is still so popular that the Japanese held a real life funeral for Raoh just one or two years ago. Yeah, they held a funeral for the series' main antagonist. With Shinto priests and everything.


----------



## Ennoea (May 16, 2008)

^^Dumb idiotic Otaku's don't count, they masturbate to Haruhi ffs.


----------



## Gary (May 16, 2008)

manga was out before the 1980


----------



## Kamen Rider Ryoma (May 16, 2008)

CrimemasterGogo said:


> ^^Dumb idiotic Otaku's don't count, they masturbate to Haruhi ffs.





Regular people were attending. Shinto priests were giving prayers to Raoh. This has nothing to do with Otaku.




i hate sasuke said:


> manga was out before the 1980



Whoever said it wasn't?


----------



## Aokiji (May 16, 2008)

Tbh, anyone who gives a funeral to someone that never lived in the first place is either crazy or an otaku. :shrooms

Although he certainly deserved it.


----------



## Ennoea (May 16, 2008)

> This has nothing to do with Otaku.



They were praying for a fictional manga character.......


----------



## King Dead (May 16, 2008)

Ryoma Nagare said:


> Way to miss the point. Of course manga existed before. Now tell me of a shounen manga that was as influential as Fist of the North Star to the genre Shounen that came out before FotNS.


Osamu Tezuka

Of course, you were arguing that the cliches that Bastard!! was lampooning somehow didn't exist back then in the shonen genre. _*Of course they did.*_


----------



## J-span (May 16, 2008)

come on guys do you think that OP is better than Naruto (aoaxoaxoaoxao). I think that naruto is much better that OP because it has more action and lore laught and love story somehow (naruto+hinata) (Sasuke+Sakura) ....


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (May 16, 2008)

J-span said:


> come on guys do you think that OP is better than Naruto (aoaxoaxoaoxao). I think that naruto is much better that OP because it has more action and lore laught and love story somehow (naruto+hinata) (Sasuke+Sakura) ....



Get this dupe away nao.


----------



## King Dead (May 16, 2008)

J-span said:


> come on guys do you think that OP is better than Naruto (aoaxoaxoaoxao). I think that naruto is much better that OP because it has more action and lore laught and love story somehow (naruto+hinata) (Sasuke+Sakura) ....


----------



## Kamen Rider Ryoma (May 16, 2008)

CrimemasterGogo said:


> They were praying for a fictional manga character.......



Damn all those Otaku in the world that pray to fictional characters. (lol gods and the like)...

Seriously, just because someone is fictional doesn't mean you can't be sad about his death. 

Raoh deserves anything he gets from his death at the hands of Kenshiro to the real life funeral. He was a very impressive character( and still is to this day).



			
				Aokiji said:
			
		

> Tbh, anyone who gives a funeral to someone that never lived in the first place is either crazy or an otaku.



*coughchristmaseastercough*



			
				King Dead said:
			
		

> Of course, you were arguing that the cliches that Bastard!! was lampooning somehow didn't exist back then in the shonen genre. Of course they did.



And which cliches are you talking about in general?

Because most were started by Dragonball. Which is very easy to see when you look at most of today's shounen manga.


----------



## Gary (May 16, 2008)

Ryoma Nagare said:


> Regular people were attending. Shinto priests were giving prayers to Raoh. This has nothing to do with Otaku.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


shit didn't see the apparently


----------



## Supa Swag (May 16, 2008)

jesus, all this talk about JJBA and FOTNS and HxH have actually got me a lil hungry for some ridiculous bullshit reasons about Naruto being better than OP...




J-span said:


> come on guys do you think that OP is better than Naruto (aoaxoaxoaoxao). I think that naruto is much better that OP because it has more action and lore laught and love story somehow (naruto+hinata) (Sasuke+Sakura) ....







LUNCHTIME!!!


----------



## King Dead (May 16, 2008)

Ryoma Nagare compares a publicity funeral for a cartoon character to the Christian holiday of Easter


----------



## Aokiji (May 16, 2008)

Ryoma Nagare said:


> *coughchristmaseastercough*



Christmas is his birthday. Easter is where he's believed to be resurrected. Both were wrong.  (also, not everyone here is atheist)

EDIT: Wait, did you even claim that Jesus didn't exist?


----------



## Kamen Rider Ryoma (May 16, 2008)

King Dead said:


> Ryoma Nagare compares a publicity funeral for a cartoon character to the Christian holiday of Easter



You don't seem to get it, do you? It wasn't a publicity funeral. It was a regular funeral held at a shinto temple. It's wasn't some overhyped event and there weren't tons of cosplaying people around.

And yeah, you were talking about fictional characters, so I don't have problems bringing up a holiday for Zombie Jesus.

I also love how you ignored my question about the cliches.




Aokiji said:


> Christmas is his birthday. Easter is where he's believed to be resurrected. Both were wrong.







> (also, not everyone here is atheist)



Who cares? A holiday that celebrates the resurrection of someone is completely senseless.

I might accept that Jesus existed. But zombie Jesus goes too far.


----------



## Aldric (May 16, 2008)

You're being kinda ridiculous now Ryoma


----------



## Kamen Rider Ryoma (May 16, 2008)

Aldric said:


> You're being kinda ridiculous now Ryoma



Spoilsport. Always ruining my fun.

Oh well, goes back to WoW...

Oh... anything new about Bastard!!? Any new chapters?


----------



## Stan Lee (May 16, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Congradulations on ignorning the concept of burden of proof. Secondly, you've negged me multiple times without any reason. All of my negs have been because of that.



No they haven't you neg me for no reason in the piccole vs grim thread than I negged you back ( you just did now)  was a month ago.

Second was in Ironman vs the leaf you were overrating stark a bit so I neg you. That was like two weeks ago.

Third becuase you sound like you weren't reading the manga and forgot the first could do.Today sorry I meant to say.


----------



## Fang (May 16, 2008)

Superman Prime said:


> No they haven't you neg me for no reason in the piccole vs grim thread than I negged you back (ike you just did now)  was a month ago.



Your confessions aren't going to help you. 



> Second was in Ironman vs the leaf you were overrating stark a bit so I neg you. That was like two weeks ago.



You were trolling then as you are now by saying INO > STARK.



> Third becuase you sound like you weren't reading the manga and forgot the first could do.Today.



Right, keep making up magical reasons because there was no reason to neg me in the first place.

Also nice flame-baiting.


----------



## Stan Lee (May 16, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Your confessions aren't going to help you.
> 
> 
> 
> You were trolling then as you are now by saying INO > STARK.



Her power would lead to his defeat I negged you because I thought your post on the thread was ignorant.




Mirai Gohan said:


> Right, keep making up magical reasons because there was no reason to neg me in the first place.
> 
> Also nice flame-baiting.



LOL! On the last neg I told you the reason and flame-baiting wtf?Also I didn't neg you four in less than a month.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (May 16, 2008)

Superman Prime said:


> Her power would lead to his defeat I negged you because I thought your post on the thread was ignorant.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Neging people for invalid reasons equals to massive amounts of fail.


----------



## Stan Lee (May 16, 2008)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> Neging Fang for stupid reasons with him making 100x more sense than you ever will=fail.



Please stay out this please plus he did the same damn thing.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (May 16, 2008)

Superman Prime said:


> Please stay out this please plus he did the same damn thing.



Probably because he had a good reason for it which you dont..

Keep trolling.

I see you lurking Sylar


----------



## Stan Lee (May 16, 2008)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> *Probably* because he had a good reason for it which you dont..
> 
> Keep trolling.



That means you don't know the reason.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (May 16, 2008)

Superman Prime said:


> That means you don't know the reason.



.

SYLAR i summon thy


----------



## Sylar (May 16, 2008)

YOU CAN'T SEE ME!!!


----------



## Tash (May 16, 2008)

So why hasn't this thread been locked yet? Basically it's degenerated into a flamebait/flame/troll hive festering the worst kind of stupidity, that isn't even funny, or even on topic anymore. And is just going to result in more members being banned for off-topic shit like Mdb, while the trolls get away with obvious flamebait.
Also


----------



## Timur Lane (May 16, 2008)

Aethos said:


> You know in a way I think I've changed my mind about the Naruto fans. Because if I keep getting flamed by JJBA fans through PMs and neg reps because I called JJBA an average series and not "TEH GREATEST THING EVER WRITTEN!!!111" I'm going to start thinking they're worse than even the DBZ fans.



HAY GUYS AM I EDGY ENOUGH NOW?? LOOK HOW INSIGHTFUL I AM!!!!!!


----------



## Aokiji (May 16, 2008)

Ryoma Nagare said:


> You don't seem to get it, do you? It wasn't a publicity funeral. It was a regular funeral held at a shinto temple. It's wasn't some overhyped event and there weren't tons of cosplaying people around.
> 
> And yeah, you were talking about fictional characters, so I don't have problems bringing up a holiday for Zombie Jesus.
> 
> ...



Which is your right, Ryoma Nagare.  Actually, that's my opinion as well. (although, granted if he got resurrected, I doubt Jesus was into eating humans brains, so Zombie is not quite the right word...)


----------



## Stan Lee (May 16, 2008)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> .
> 
> SYLAR i summon thy



Dude I got negged because my username was Superman Prime.

  " Superman prime is shit" by The Sentry the well known superman hater.





Swajio said:


> So why hasn't this thread been locked yet? Basically it's degenerated into a flamebait/flame/troll hive festering the worst kind of stupidity, that isn't even funny, or even on topic anymore. And is just going to result in more members being banned for off-topic shit like Mdb, while the trolls get away with obvious flamebait.
> Also



Okay...........on topic I prefer Naruto over OP.


----------



## Zetta (May 16, 2008)

What faggotry is this?

How can one even compare OP to Naruto.

Basicly,Naruto has two characters that have gotten good screentime. One Piece manages to do this with hundreds.

Unlike Kishi,Oda rides everyone's dick.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (May 16, 2008)

Superman Prime said:


> Naruto girls>>>>>(INFINITE!)>>>>>>>>> OP girls in terms of looks.



must..........not...........make..........pedobear comment-and he was talking about MAIN female characters.Which as you yourself said you can't know.I mean comparing pre teens to



is damn unheard of.



J-span said:


> come on guys do you think that OP is better than Naruto (aoaxoaxoaoxao). I think that naruto is much better that OP because it has more action and lore laught and love story somehow (naruto+hinata) (Sasuke+Sakura) ....



So soap-operaticnes beats carefull planing,interesting designs,foreshadowing and PROGRESSING plot?



Aethos said:


> I agree. I'd be the same way too so thank goodness Arakawa doesn't suck like the Kishimoto brothers.



Seishi's manga WAS good till Naruto (read:Sasuke) fanboys forced the series to end abruptly,you could see he was planing for something big in the foreshadowings he made.



Mat?icha said:


> right, if you wait like a hundreds years, oda's grand children will finally finish OP, with this pace he wont finish by the time he dies.



Though far from reality,aplicable to Naruto as well (which,unlike OP has NO progress to the characters chief goal)


----------



## C-Moon (May 16, 2008)

Let's just get the hell out of here before something else happens.


----------



## Zetta (May 16, 2008)

Superman Prime said:


> Naruto girls>>>>>(INFINITE!)>>>>>>>>> OP girls in terms of looks.



GTFO you pedo piece of shit.


----------



## Sylar (May 16, 2008)

Superman Prime said:


> Naruto girls>>>>>(INFINITE!)>>>>>>>>> OP girls in terms of looks.


----------



## Gary (May 16, 2008)

so much flame bait in this thread


----------



## Doom85 (May 16, 2008)

i hate sasuke said:


> so much flame bait in this thread



and so little time.....


----------



## Gary (May 16, 2008)

yes but that means


----------



## tictactoc (May 16, 2008)

This thread is still opened ?


----------



## Doom85 (May 16, 2008)

tictactoc said:


> This thread is still opened ?



Mods are too busy laughing about how passionate both sides are getting over whether one fictional series is better or not.

And I thought "LOTR vs. Star Wars" debates were bad......


----------



## King Dead (May 16, 2008)

Ryoma Nagare said:


> You don't seem to get it, do you? It wasn't a publicity funeral. It was a regular funeral held at a shinto temple. It's wasn't some overhyped event and there weren't tons of cosplaying people around.
> 
> And yeah, you were talking about fictional characters, so I don't have problems bringing up a holiday for Zombie Jesus.


The funeral was organized as an event to help advertised the Raoh Den movie being released at the time. So yeah, it was very much a PR event.

And your idiotic "lawl Jesus was madeup" attitude is just too silly to take seriously at all



> I also love how you ignored my question about the cliches.


Similar to how your ignored my mentioning Osamu Tezuka.

and honestly, after that LOL RAOH FUNERAL IS JUST LIKE EASTER one liner I'm not sure if you're _worth_ having a dialogue with


----------



## San Juan Wolf (May 16, 2008)

Im sure you can doubt whether Jesus rose from the dead,but it's historicaly proven he existed,therefore,you,sir,fail. (not you,KD)


----------



## Amatsu (May 16, 2008)

Aldric said:


> I love how Aethos thinks whole fanbases are out to get him
> 
> While it's just people reacting to the utterly stupid shit he posts
> 
> ...



I love how Aldrich gets on my case whenever I defend One Piece yet acts the same fucking way when I just say JJBA along with HnK are generic. When I called them generic I was only saying they were average series in my opinion. Did I ever say they weren't influential series? No. Did I ever say they weren't good? No. I said they were alright series with good action but considering I look more for plot and characters I would consider them average/generic in the long run. Pure badass action doesn't always equal quality to everyone.

I just find it sad you know? Because I defend One Piece against people who say it completely sucks and has no redeemable qualities. Aldrich usually busts my balls about that. Yet here he is along with other JJBA fans going ballistic on me for saying that it's an "average series" talk about being a total fucking hypocrite. So Aldrich perhaps you should stop spouting useless and stupid shit in a failed attempt to insult me and just comment on the thread like a good little boy.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (May 16, 2008)

I think he says that HnK has superb plot and emotions-havent read it,so......its clear to see why he doesn't agree with you saying "I like plot,therefore I prefer something else."


----------



## Amatsu (May 16, 2008)

I'm not even sure why they got offended by it. When I called them generic as I've said about a million fucking times I was just saying they were average. Oh but of course they'll say that they don't care if I think it's the greatest thing ever written or not, but they do... They totally do. Their responses made it completely obvious.

So excuse me for not orgasming over JJBA and HnK like some kinda rabid fanboy constantly, and again I just think it's funny that the ones going ballistic on me for calling JJBA an average fighting shounen are the one's who bust my balls and call me a OPTard when I defend One Piece.

To people like Aldrich it's obvious that the only time people say stupid things as he claims them to be is when they refer to something he disagrees with. It's ironic really. The way he claims I don't respect anyone's opinion while he just proved he doesn't respect mine because it went against his own views. So I'll say it again. What a fucking hypocrite.


----------



## King Dead (May 16, 2008)

maybe because someone with a Code Geass avatar and sig calling something good "generic" is kind of insulting


----------



## Codde (May 16, 2008)

Aethos said:


> I love how Aldrich gets on my case whenever I defend One Piece yet acts the same fucking way when I just say JJBA along with HnK are generic. When I called them generic I was only saying they were average series in my opinion. Did I ever say they weren't influential series? No. Did I ever say they weren't good? No. I said they were alright series with good action but considering I look more for plot and characters I would consider them average/generic in the long run. Pure badass action doesn't always equal quality to everyone.


Then that's not being generic. Generic doesn't mean you don't like it, it's characterizing it as something specific.

And both have plot and characters, so it could either be a matter of you not noticing the them or simply not liking it (which is different from then not having it period.)

Those things aren't really a matter of someone's opinion.


----------



## King Dead (May 16, 2008)

Aethos said:


> I'm not even sure why they got offended by it. When I called them generic as I've said about a million fucking times I was just saying they were average.


"generic" is not synonymous with "average," and it has a very negative and insulting connotation.

And, like a bunch of people (myself included) have said, JoJo and Hokuto No Ken being "plotless" is pretty much untrue. Especially Hokuto no Ken. It pretty much just seems like you pretty much know nothing about either of the series in question.

and, surprise, people tend to get annoyed when things like this are said.


----------



## The Doctor (May 16, 2008)

King Dead said:


> "generic" is not synonymous with "average," and it has a very negative and insulting connotation.


Really?
For me, something generic was something common, that you could see in most places (in this case, a manga). Something with nothing special, simple.
It might be my bad interpretation but I think that "very negative and insulting connotation" is a little too hard for a word like "generic".


----------



## King Dead (May 16, 2008)

Maybe a _bit_ too strong, but typically if somebody calls something "generic" it's a negative statement, rather than neutral.


----------



## Codde (May 16, 2008)

Connotatively, I generally see average as being something neither good or bad. Generic on the other hand means that its elements are extremely common (something can be unique and still be average in terms of "quality", same with something consisting of some generic parts and being amazing.) Average is more opinionated, while generic is specifically classifying it as something commonly produced.


----------



## Taleran (May 16, 2008)

Its just as easy to have an average series that isn't generic but is just average.




> I'm not even sure why they got offended by it. When I called them generic as I've said about a million fucking times I was just saying they were average. Oh but of course they'll say that they don't care if I think it's the greatest thing ever written or not, but they do... They totally do. Their responses made it completely obvious.




you walk into a thread full of people that it should be painfully obvious by now what most of em like, paint a massive fucking target on your chest and then wonder why people take the shot?

please


----------



## Amatsu (May 17, 2008)

Teresa Brasil said:


> Really?
> For me, something generic was something common, that you could see in most places (in this case, a manga). Something with nothing special, simple.
> It might be my bad interpretation but I think that "very negative and insulting connotation" is a little too hard for a word like "generic".



No I think your interpretation was spot on. Since that's all I meant it as. Maybe I should have just said it was average from the start, but I assumed that people would realize that me calling it generic only meant that I was calling it an average series.

I mean no question the series are good and they're influential but I don't consider them anything special. That's all I was saying from the start.



Taleran said:


> Its just as easy to have an average series that isn't generic but is just average.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My bad then. I wasn't intending on painting a target to my chest so to speak but it somehow ended up there anyway apparently.

and apparently I took things the wrong way as well considering I thought I was being attacked based on calling it an average series. It seems like somehow there was a mix up of communication here.


----------



## Bladetaster's Delight (May 17, 2008)

This thread is gay.


----------



## King Dead (May 17, 2008)

Bladetaster's Delight said:


> This thread is gay.


I think you may be onto something


----------



## San Juan Wolf (May 17, 2008)

I don'T get how Zephos has not been banned for rudeness/provocation yet.

Anyway,for me,"generic" seems like a neutral point of view,unless being given out angerly.

But I'd like to return to OP.499 is REALY good in my opinion and shows us what the f*cks are like.Plus,Peterman is 8.2/10 points easily.I can't wait for 500,then we will see how this turns out.


----------



## Kamen Rider Ryoma (May 17, 2008)

King Dead said:


> and honestly, after that LOL RAOH FUNERAL IS JUST LIKE EASTER one liner I'm not sure if you're _worth_ having a dialogue with



*sigh*

You, sir, don't seem to recognize when someone is arguing for the sake of arguing. It's fun, you should try it yourself. It's a great way to relieve stress.



Lobolover said:


> Im sure you can doubt whether Jesus rose from the dead,but it's historicaly proven he existed,therefore,you,sir,fail. (not you,KD)



I already said that I might accept that Jesus existed. But the resurrection...

I'd post a funny pic I found but I'd probably get negged to hell.


----------



## Heiji-sama (May 17, 2008)

Bladetaster's Delight said:


> This thread is gay.



I second


----------



## Dance (May 17, 2008)

Aethos said:


> I said they were alright series with good action but considering I look more for plot and characters I would consider them average/generic in the long run. Pure badass action doesn't always equal quality to everyone.


Honestly now, how much of JJBA have you even read? When you say things like "I look more for plot and characters" you're implying that JJBA doesn't have any plot or character depth. It seems like you looked at a couple pages from a chapter and built your whole understanding of the series on that.

When you make judgments like that, you're no better than the Narutards that you hate oh so much.



> I just find it sad you know? Because I defend One Piece against people who say it completely sucks and has no redeemable qualities.



Aren't you the same person who said " the only thing Naruto is good for is wiping your ass" or something?

Honestly, you're no better than them.


----------



## San Juan Wolf (May 17, 2008)

Uhm,but theese people weren't the ones BEGINING originaly with the "tardness".And they can be bolstered by many signs of being right-when did Toriyama ever do a cross manga with Kishimoto?


----------



## Yakushi Kabuto (May 17, 2008)

Thread over. Take your pick of why this is closed, trolling, baiting, whichever, you'll be right.


----------

