# "There is no hope" - Obito



## MYJC (Aug 30, 2012)

Now that we know just who Tobi is, I thought it was an opportunity to look at some of his past dialogue, and in particular his motivations and how he contrasts with Naruto. Let's look at some old pages:




> Obito:_ "There is no such thing as hope! The concept of hope is nothing more than giving up. A word that holds no true meaning. _






> Obito: _There is no true peace! There is no such thing as hope! Nagato's faith in Naruto was nothing but a desire to comfort his own sorrow. _






> Obito: _This world is completely worthless...there is nothing left in it but misery._






> Obito: _This world no longer needs heroes like hope or the future!!_






A cynical guy to say the least, especially compared to the idealistic Obito we knew. But in particular, his theme seems to be "there is no hope" - a statement he has repeated on several pages. What do you think he means by this and what's motivating him to take that position?

These aren't the words of someone that's sad about a girl not liking him, or that's just in some lame genjutsu. That sounds like somebody that's completely and utterly given up on the world and on humanity. A man defined by misanthropy and hatred of the world in general. Even Madara himself doesn't seem THAT cynical. 

But that's just how I view it. What do you make of Tobi/Obito's repeated statements that "There is no hope!" and "There's nothing left in this world but misery"?


----------



## Lost on Words (Aug 30, 2012)

Just look at his face, He went from a sweet boy who helped old ladies to such a sadistic man. The World around him made him that and he knows it. The Naruto world is worthless and shitty


----------



## ovanz (Aug 30, 2012)

"There is no hope! "There's nothing left in this world but misery!" > traduction = I'm forever trapped in the friendzone.


----------



## Marsala (Aug 30, 2012)

Whatever happened, it traumatized him as badly as Sasuke. He's nearly as nihilistic, though Sasuke seemed to be seeking his own destruction.

Nagato really snapped when he was forced to kill Yahiko. Was Obito forced to kill Rin?

Also, if the pattern holds, Naruto would be forever destroyed by killing Sasuke.


----------



## lathia (Aug 30, 2012)

​
Tobi isn't really that hopeless.


----------



## NW (Aug 30, 2012)

I just love the parallels between Obito and Naruto. It shows that Naruto could have actually become just like him. Even Itachi stated it.

Very interesting and some of Kishi's best work, imo.

Anyways, about Obito, there are so many things that could have made him like this. Well, he was pretty much treated as a loser just like Naruto was. And Kakashi breaking his promise to protect Rin definitely had something to do with it. Also, this chapter seems to imply that Obito wanted to be Hokage. Maybe he just thought, "Fuck it, I'll never be Hokage. I might as well just stay No One forever!" Okay, maybe not all at once or phrased like that, but in a more dramatic fashion, I guess.

This is certainly an interesting topic to discuss, but I highly doubt we can come to much of a conclusion even with our current knowledge. It's probably best to just wait for the next 5-6 chapters to explain it.


----------



## Summers (Aug 30, 2012)

No hope because he has been fucking up world events since he got out from under that rock and Madara has been fucking shit up since he left Konoha. The world takes a lot of responsibility for falling for their raging bullshit but in the end they spend their lives manipulating events so they end in mass suffering.


----------



## MYJC (Aug 31, 2012)

Marsala said:


> Whatever happened, it traumatized him as badly as Sasuke. He's nearly as nihilistic, though Sasuke seemed to be seeking his own destruction.
> 
> Nagato really snapped when he was forced to kill Yahiko. Was Obito forced to kill Rin?
> 
> Also, if the pattern holds, Naruto would be forever destroyed by killing Sasuke.



I could see Madara genjutsu'ing Obito into killing Rin, for the purpose of unlocking MS. Though it would be more interesting if he did it willingly. I'd prefer the backstory not to be TOO simlar to Nagato's.  

But yeah, I see Rin's death being the last of Obito. After being forced to kill Rin (or watching her die), I think he decided Obito was dead too and became the teleporting Tobi.


----------



## boohead (Aug 31, 2012)

friendzoned, boulder smashes face/life, love of life dies.  yeeaaaah he went ape shit.


----------



## Shadow050 (Aug 31, 2012)

Summers said:


> No hope because he has been fucking up world events since he got out from under that rock and Madara has been fucking shit up since he left Konoha. The world takes a lot of responsibility for falling for their raging bullshit but in the end they spend their lives manipulating events so they end in mass suffering.



word up.... i think it's interesting how we have various Uchiha who are playing the VICTIM role in one way or the next...

Madara - they betrayed me... konoha was gonna shit on them and they betrayed me...  so i went against konoha and hated the uchiha too... it's THEIR fault - not mine.

Tobi/Obito (assuming it's ACTUALLY him) - there's no hope in this world... between and madara, we've been doing everything in our power to make this world as bad as possible... we been doing it because the world is shitty... it's not like the world is shitty because of what we been doing! how silly of you to even suggest such a thing lol.

Sasuke - KONOHA WILL PAY for slaughtering the uchiha!! they were innocent dammit! the Coup they were planning?? what about that you ask? (Rock Voice) "IT DOESN'T MATTER!!" Konoha is at fault!!

WTF at this man.... Shisui and Itachi are the only ones we can confirm to have not done this...


----------



## Escargon (Aug 31, 2012)

Friendzone into betrayal>no hope.


----------



## Skywalker (Aug 31, 2012)

Blame Rin, she turned him into this.


----------



## BatoKusanagi (Aug 31, 2012)

Everything he said it's now meaningless. Forget peace, hope, heroes, etc... he was just jealous of Kakashi.


----------



## BroKage (Aug 31, 2012)

I love how this Rin friendzone thing is the new "Pain's dog".


----------



## PikaCheeka (Aug 31, 2012)

Why would Obito bitch about the lack of world peace if he's the one who caused the current problems?

Between the time he "died" and the time the Kyuubi attacked, Minato stopped a world war, didn't he? The world got six months of peace before Tobi screwed it up again. 

The rest of it can fit into someone wangsting over being turned down by a girl, but I don't get how world peace comes into the picture. If he's upset about a rock falling on his head during a war, that's his own dumb fault for deciding to be a shinobi in the first place.


----------



## Tidezen (Aug 31, 2012)

No way, it wasn't just Rin, she was just what set him up for his rivalry or feelings of inferiority.  After Madara and/or Zetsu revived him, they brought him back to health, but he was still disfigured.  Well Rin, if she didn't like him before, had even less chance of liking him then.  So he had to train even harder, and Madara offered him that power.  

But then, guess what, Kakashi fails his promise, and Rin dies.  It's too late, and my best friend failed me.

And then, Uchiha gets massacred.  Madara tells him basically the same story Tobi told Sasuke about why it happened.

So now, your best friends' left you for dead, the girl didn't love you, you tried to make it better but then she died, your best friend got all the glory, and your family and clan were murdered.

I'm pretty sure all those things combined would put a damper on someone's day.


----------



## mayumi (Aug 31, 2012)

Basically tobi is more emo than naruto. like seriously looks like tobi never matured from a 15 yrs old or whatever his age. you know teenage angst and stuff when heart gets broken.


----------



## MYJC (Aug 31, 2012)

Tidezen said:


> No way, it wasn't just Rin, she was just what set him up for his rivalry or feelings of inferiority.  After Madara and/or Zetsu revived him, they brought him back to health, but he was still disfigured.  Well Rin, if she didn't like him before, had even less chance of liking him then.  So he had to train even harder, and Madara offered him that power.
> 
> But then, guess what, Kakashi fails his promise, and Rin dies.  It's too late, and my best friend failed me.
> 
> ...



Good point. When you put it like that, I can see why Obito hates the world and wants to end it.


----------



## Orochibuto (Aug 31, 2012)

ovanz said:


> "There is no hope! "There's nothing left in this world but misery!" > traduction = I'm forever trapped in the friendzone.



I think its more like "There cant be hope, because there is no way to end the Friendzone, so I am creating Mugen Tsukuyomi, the second best thing to it."


----------



## Orochibuto (Aug 31, 2012)

MYJC said:


> Good point. When you put it like that, I can see why Obito hates the world and wants to end it.



He doesnt want to end it, he simply thinks what he wants to achieve its not possible in the real world so he wants to offer an escape.


----------



## Johnny Kage (Aug 31, 2012)

Hope is for  protagonists, villains doesn't need that


----------



## Revolution (Aug 31, 2012)

Not to mention the apparent hint Itachi gave to Naruto when he said "you will end up just like Tobi".


----------



## gtw1983 (Aug 31, 2012)

MYJC said:


> Now that we know just who Tobi is, I thought it was an opportunity to look at some of his past dialogue, and in particular his motivations and how he contrasts with Naruto. Let's look at some old pages:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I'm telling you people that Obito is not in charge of his body.It's either part of Madara's soul or perhaps Izuna possessing him.

Do you REALLY think that Obito turned into a genocidal maniac bent on world domination,summoned the Kyuubi, and fought toe to toe with Minato after a single year of absence? 

really?


----------



## Nic (Aug 31, 2012)

yeah there's been quite a few parallels as it relates to Naruto.  You can tell that kishi is setting this up for a massive TNJ.


----------



## DoflaMihawk (Aug 31, 2012)

Friendzone = No hope for mankind apparently.

Obito's an idiot.


----------



## gentlechomp (Aug 31, 2012)

He has a warped version of his old personality.  He equates hope to giving up.  Rejecting hope for him means never giving up.


----------



## gabzilla (Aug 31, 2012)

MYJC said:


> These aren't the worlds of *someone that's sad about a girl not liking him*, or that's just in some lame genjutsu. That sounds like somebody that's completely and utterly given up on the world and on humanity. A man defined by misanthropy and hatred of the world in general. Even Madara himself doesn't seem THAT cynical.



Agreed. Something drastic must have happened to make Obito so jaded.


----------



## MYJC (Aug 31, 2012)

gtw1983 said:


> I'm telling you people that Obito is not in charge of his body.It's either part of Madara's soul or perhaps Izuna possessing him.
> 
> Do you REALLY think that Obito turned into a genocidal maniac bent on world domination,summoned the Kyuubi, and fought toe to toe with Minato after a single year of absence?
> 
> really?



Come on, it's CLEARLY Obito. What would be the point of the flashback if it wasn't really him? Kishi wouldn't have a whole chapter about Obito's backstory followed by this big reveal just to be like "nah j/k it's not really Obito" a chapter later. 

You might as well just accept it. It's Obito. Something changed him, a lot.


----------



## Arya Stark (Aug 31, 2012)

gtw1983 said:


> I'm telling you people that Obito is not in charge of his body.It's either part of Madara's soul or perhaps Izuna possessing him.
> 
> Do you REALLY think that Obito turned into a genocidal maniac bent on world domination,summoned the Kyuubi, and fought toe to toe with Minato after a single year of absence?
> 
> really?



Yes we do.

Fucking seriously he can have that drastic character change, get over it.


----------



## MYJC (Aug 31, 2012)

Moon~ said:


> Yes we do.
> 
> Fucking seriously he can have that drastic character change, get over it.



Exactly. 

Look at Gaara now vs. when he was introduced. He went from an insane serial killer that hated everybody to the benevolent Kage of the Sand Village. And that was only a couple years.


----------



## T-Bag (Aug 31, 2012)

Shice said:


> I love how this Rin friendzone thing is the new "Pain's dog".


----------



## DragonOfChoas (Aug 31, 2012)

lathia said:


> ​
> Tobi isn't really that hopeless.



when was this?


----------



## T-Bag (Aug 31, 2012)

DragonOfChoas said:


> when was this?



when minato saves kushina from kyuubi


----------



## gtw1983 (Aug 31, 2012)

Moon~ said:


> Yes we do.
> 
> Fucking seriously he can have that drastic character change, get over it.




Sure he can..Kishi can do whatever he wants no matter how badly written it is.But if you just want to ignore all the evidence that there's more to Tobi than just having Obito's body thats your buisness.



MYJC said:


> Come on, it's CLEARLY Obito. What would be the point of the flashback if it wasn't really him? Kishi wouldn't have a whole chapter about Obito's backstory followed by this big reveal just to be like "nah j/k it's not really Obito" a chapter later.
> 
> You might as well just accept it. It's Obito. Something changed him, a lot.



Oh yes..it's clearly Obito..simply because we saw his face.
Just like Deva Pain was obviously Yahiko...
Just like a Orochimaru possessed Sasuke would have been Sasuke amirite?
You people never learn do you?

And we saw flashbacks of Tobi narrating Madara's life too.Talking in far deeper detail of the emotions he felt and things he saw as though they are the same person.Yet to you guys one chapter of wordless flash backs and Tobi having Obito's face settles it?

Yay for double standards


----------



## Veritas17 (Aug 31, 2012)

Obito's ultimate goal is the hipster max version of teenage angst.


----------



## Hydro Spiral (Aug 31, 2012)

gtw1983 said:


> Do you REALLY think that Obito turned into a genocidal maniac bent on world domination,summoned the Kyuubi, and fought toe to toe with Minato after a single year of absence?
> 
> really?



That's the Uchiha Curse of Hatred for you


----------



## UltimateDeadpool (Aug 31, 2012)

PikaCheeka said:


> Why would Obito bitch about the lack of world peace if he's the one who caused the current problems?



He isn't really causing the world problems, everyone else is. Just look at everything going on in the world that he had no part of, essentially the entire ninja system. The Sand village attacked the Leaf village because of their own struggles, the Rock village was hiring Akatsuki because they were getting nervous of the Cloud village bolstering it's forces, psychos want to destroy the Leaf village, etc. Tobi's tired of it, and he wanted to end it with his genjutsu... the war is actually going on right now because the villages didn't want false peace.


----------



## Aeiou (Sep 1, 2012)

It sounds like Tobi knows a greater truth of the history or future of Shinobi, and noticed has worthless such hateful beings are to the world.


----------



## Gabe (Sep 1, 2012)

maybe he really was forced to kill rin or witness her death. i would not be surprised if madara placed him under genjutsu and made him relive rins death over and over again until he lost it. he hates is for a reason he went from a happy go lucky guy to a man that gave up on everything. i would not be surprised if he lied about placing the world in genjutsu but that he has something more similar to pain plan with the nuke created from the jins and he plans to kill everyone while under genjutsu. but it does seem this is setting up a massive tnj from naruto the guy who learn to give up his hate and is like obito used to be.


----------



## Summers (Sep 1, 2012)

Shadow050 said:


> word up.... i think it's interesting how we have various Uchiha who are playing the VICTIM role in one way or the next...
> 
> Madara - they betrayed me... konoha was gonna shit on them and they betrayed me...  so i went against konoha and hated the uchiha too... it's THEIR fault - not mine.
> 
> ...



Yep, my point includes the Uchiha massacre, a Coup planned by Uchiha due to discrimination caused my 2 Uchiha, and the they all got killed by 2 Uchiha.


----------



## The Determinator (Sep 1, 2012)

what if Tobi is pulling a Itachi..? Tobi decides too unite the world, he'll become the greatest villain the world has ever fought by masquerading around as Madara

wishful thinking


----------



## Arya Stark (Sep 1, 2012)

The Determinator said:


> what if Tobi is pulling a Itachi..? Tobi decides too unite the world, he'll become the greatest villain the world has ever fought by masquerading around as Madara
> 
> wishful thinking



I really hope it's part of his plan. 
He has a twisted understanding of peace.


----------



## Lost on Words (Sep 1, 2012)

Moon~ said:


> I really hope it's part of his plan.
> He has a twisted understanding of peace.



Uchihas have a twisted understanding of anything


----------



## Arya Stark (Sep 1, 2012)

gtw1983 said:


> Sure he can..Kishi can do whatever he wants no matter how badly written it is.But if you just want to ignore all the evidence that there's more to Tobi than just having Obito's body thats your buisness.



You know Star Wars and The Dark Knight had the same shit and they're considered as epic movies by majority.
If Kishi can pull the drastic change in Obito's character, the manga would be memorable. (And I'm someone who doesn't like his writing)

I don't give a darn about someone controlling him.



Lost on Words said:


> Uchihas have a twisted understanding of anything



Even Obito...


----------



## Lelouch71 (Sep 1, 2012)

The Determinator said:


> what if Tobi is pulling a Itachi..? Tobi decides too unite the world, he'll become the greatest villain the world has ever fought by masquerading around as Madara
> 
> wishful thinking


Whether it's intentional or unintentional that exactly what happen. He manage to do what many people failed to do over the course Narutoverse history.


----------



## Raventhal (Sep 1, 2012)

Lelouch71 said:


> Whether it's intentional or unintentional that exactly what happen. He manage to do what many people failed to do over the course Narutoverse history.



Yep, it's going to be part of Naruto's peace speech.   We're going to see that Obito die redeemed or fight/warp Madara.


----------



## Contaro (Sep 1, 2012)

It's pretty clear that Tobi is not motivated by generic angst. He's displayed too many moments of lighthearted joking around - and too many moments of serious consideration - to make him that sort of villain. Obito knows what he is doing and why. He believes the world he lives in is a miserable ball of crap; furthermore, he believes that state is its natural state, to which it will inevitably return. So, he plans to basically genjutsu the hell out of everyone until the backstory, etc - everything - is wiped out and rewritten.

Which honestly, if Kishimoto goes that way, would actually be an unusually thought-provoking storyline in a shonen manga. You have this huge, popular series, and the villain is saying "What sort of idiot would want to LIVE here? A world full of superpowered ninja is a horrible place. If one goes rogue, they're a one man weapon of mass destruction." Obito is pointing out that ninjutsu has not been a force for good in the world; in fact, it cannot be a force for good, even if good people can use it. Obito plans a world without ninja.

Mind-bending thought of the day: what if the Sage of the Six Paths used something like Infinite Tsukiyomi to create the Naruto world and more or less retcon knowledge of ninjutsu into people?


----------



## Arya Stark (Sep 1, 2012)

Contaro said:


> It's pretty clear that Tobi is not motivated by generic angst. He's displayed too many moments of lighthearted joking around - and too many moments of serious consideration - to make him that sort of villain. Obito knows what he is doing and why. He believes the world he lives in is a miserable ball of crap; furthermore, he believes that state is its natural state, to which it will inevitably return. So, he plans to basically genjutsu the hell out of everyone until the backstory, etc - everything - is wiped out and rewritten.
> 
> Which honestly, if Kishimoto goes that way, would actually be an unusually thought-provoking storyline in a shonen manga. You have this huge, popular series, and the villain is saying "What sort of idiot would want to LIVE here? A world full of superpowered ninja is a horrible place. If one goes rogue, they're a one man weapon of mass destruction." Obito is pointing out that ninjutsu has not been a force for good in the world; in fact, it cannot be a force for good, even if good people can use it. Obito plans a world without ninja.
> 
> Mind-bending thought of the day: what if the Sage of the Six Paths used something like Infinite Tsukiyomi to create the Naruto world and more or less retcon knowledge of ninjutsu into people?



Rooting for the villain tbh.


----------



## WorstUsernameEver (Sep 1, 2012)

Confirmed:Friendzone destroys lives


----------



## Black Mirror (Sep 1, 2012)

Naruto succeeded everywhere Obito failed. I smell the biggest TnJ of all times.


----------



## ch1p (Sep 1, 2012)

Obito is very proud of his clan. I think that yet again, we're going to see the results of the Leaf's mishandling of the Uchiha clan.


----------



## DeK3iDE (Sep 2, 2012)

Black Mirror said:


> Naruto succeeded everywhere Obito failed. I smell the biggest TnJ of all times.


it's pretty plausible considering atm it's starting to look a little like a rerun of the fight he had with Pain. Anytime Naruto is in a "that could've been me" fight you tend to get a spidey sense for that stuff now 





> Obito is very proud of his clan. I think that yet again, we're going to see the results of the Leaf's mishandling of the Uchiha clan.


wouldn't be surprised since we gotta know why he hates Konoha so much. The question of the day is what made him hate the Uchiha enough to plot their demise if he was that proud of them


----------



## Last Rose of Summer (Sep 2, 2012)

Lelouch71 said:


> Whether it's intentional or unintentional that exactly what happen. He manage to do what many people failed to do over the course Narutoverse history.



He said it during Kurama attack: it's his plan to start a war to bring peace. 
Just as planned...


----------

