# Dragon Ball-Verse Vs Nasuverse



## Big Bοss (May 29, 2010)

So how does this go?


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## Xelloss (May 29, 2010)

Type-Jpiter its basically a logial 100% of poison ionixied gas.


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## Seyta (May 29, 2010)

Xelloss said:


> Type-Jpiter its basically a logial 100% of poison ionixied gas.



And Majin Buu, Frieza, King Cold, Cell, and a multitude of other minor characters don't breathe...


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## Hellspawn28 (May 29, 2010)

I hear they have a multiverse creator but from I have been told that most of their top tier characters have no feats.


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## Xelloss (May 30, 2010)

Yeah but how are they gonna kill type jupiter, or type venus which is a parasit without body that infect and clone life.


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## Tranquil Fury (May 30, 2010)

They all get raped by DBverse, featless characters being wanked lol. Who gives a shit about the avatars of celestial bodies when the verse fighting them blows up moons and planets for the lulz at massively hypersonic speed.


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## Xelloss (May 30, 2010)

Actually both of those have feats, read "Angel notes", and second how you kill something with no body by dragon ball normal attacks and then they use a body with intangilble?


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## Cypher0120 (May 30, 2010)

Devilman solos everyone but the TYPES.

DB higher tiers can take the rest.


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## Xelloss (May 30, 2010)

Again I repeat how to dragon ball beats incorporeal entities that reality warp with their presence.


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## Cypher0120 (May 30, 2010)

Make a wish?


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## Xelloss (May 30, 2010)

Yeah to a dragon that need to be stronger than them... right he couldnt doit with old picolo


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## Crimson King (May 30, 2010)

Stupid thread is stupid.

Also spite thread.

Also begging for a negging.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (May 30, 2010)

Cypher0120 said:


> Make a wish?



The Dragon CAN'T kill through wishes. They tried that before. It was out of Shenron's power. It can resurrect but still limited. The dragon can do a lot but not everything out of it's power.


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## God (May 30, 2010)

Dragon Ball destroys every planet, characters that don't need to breathe won't be affected by poison gax.

/thread


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## Crimson King (May 30, 2010)

And Wallachia laughs as the explosion does nothing to him.


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## God (May 30, 2010)

Wallachia exists only because of fear. Once the fear is gone, he won't.

/thread


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## God (May 30, 2010)

/thread

Or you could prove me wrong ofc 

Where am I wrong?


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## Crimson King (May 30, 2010)

Cubey said:


> /thread**





> A Dead Apostle whose form is that of a phenomenon instead of a real creature, a disembodied TATARI (Literally ?Curse?) with the power to grant physical shape to the fears and rumours that circulate within a community. He has no definite form, though the name by which he is usually referred to belong to the first fear he ever manifested: the image of the vampire that was falsely believed to haunt the province of Walachia (also spelled Wallachia) in Romania, Count Dracula.


Thanks for conceding.


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## God (May 30, 2010)

That's what I said, he's fear.


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## Crimson King (May 30, 2010)

Cubey said:


> That's what I said, he's fear.





> A Dead Apostle whose *form is that of a phenomenon *instead of a real creature, *a disembodied TATARI* (Literally ?Curse?) with the* power to grant physical shape to the fears and rumours that circulate within a community*. He has no definite form, though the name by which he is usually referred to belong to the first fear he ever manifested: the image of the vampire that was falsely believed to haunt the province of Walachia (also spelled Wallachia) in Romania, Count Dracula.



Concession accepted.


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## Xelloss (May 30, 2010)

No special place was given this is the hyperbolic chamber what planet you are trying to destroy?


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## God (May 31, 2010)

I concede 

But anyways, it's still a win for DB, since they raped the verse with one character left standing who can't even do anything to them.

Xelloss, they don't have to destroy planets, but they still rape with planetbusting attacks.


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## Xelloss (May 31, 2010)

Destroy spirits that lack body and live on another place yeah how explain?


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## God (May 31, 2010)

> But anyways, it's still a win for DB, since they raped the verse with one character left standing who can't even do anything to them.



**


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## Crimson King (May 31, 2010)

Hey Vegeta, you scared of a Freeza that's stronger than you? Oh look, there he is. Goku, you scared of Buu coming back 100 times stronger? he's right behind you.


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## God (May 31, 2010)

No-limits fallacy.


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## Crimson King (May 31, 2010)

fallacy-fallacy


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## God (May 31, 2010)

Wrong, you're using the fear ability to extremes and wanking it so that it can do anything, like make a 100 x Buu. Wallachia himself doesn't even have the power of Freiza.

Second, you're claiming Goku is scared of those things without proof. He has no reason to be afraid of those things as Buu was defeated in the DB story and reincarnated as a good human.

Just stop, you look like a fool.


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## Crimson King (May 31, 2010)

Cubey said:


> Just stop, you look like a fool.



I love ironic statements.


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## God (May 31, 2010)

Nice to see you completely disregarded the entirety of my post. Concession accepted and /thread.


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (May 31, 2010)

Cubey said:


> Concession accepted and /thread.



Post some 4chan macro too.


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## Crimson King (May 31, 2010)

Cubey said:


> Nice to see you completely disregarded the entirety of my post. Concession accepted and /thread.



I don't see the word "concede" in my previous post


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (May 31, 2010)

Seriously Cubey, could you be any more generic?


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## God (May 31, 2010)

Charcan said:


> Post some 4chan macro too.



Got anything to actually counter the argument, or are you just butthurt?



Crimson King said:


> I don't see
> 
> the word "concede" in my previous post



I don't see any refutation in your post either.



Charcan said:


> Seriously Cubey, could you be any more generic?



Could you be any more transparent? You haven't won anything, and I'm the one soloing this thread. I don't see where you get off making fun of anyone.


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## Crimson King (May 31, 2010)

ok.

Akasha solos


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## God (May 31, 2010)

Akasha does nothing because it isn't a person.


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## Crimson King (May 31, 2010)

Cubey said:


> Akasha does nothing because it isn't a person.



Straw Man. I never said Akasha is a person.


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## God (May 31, 2010)

You know what I mean. It is a phenomenon.


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (May 31, 2010)

Cubey said:


> Got anything to actually counter the argument, or are you just butthurt?



I'm not. Butthurt about what, anyway?


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## Crimson King (May 31, 2010)

Cubey said:


> You know what I mean. It is a phenomenon.



Red herring. It doesn't matter what it is.


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## God (May 31, 2010)

Charcan said:


> I'm not. Butthurt about what, anyway?



I can't possibly know, you're the one taking cheap shots at me for my retorts and not me argument, which is the meat of my post.



Crimson King said:


> Red herring. It doesn't matter what it is.



Yes it does. Because tobiah showed a quote that said it's a state that can be achieved. So it certainly does matter.


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## Crimson King (May 31, 2010)

Cubey said:


> Yes it does. Because tobiah showed a quote that said it's a state that can be achieved. So it certainly does matter.



Where's the quote?

Also, red herring again since that does not matter.


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (May 31, 2010)

Cubey said:


> I can't possibly know, you're the one taking cheap shots at me for my retorts and not me argument, which is the meat of my post.



Your fortunetelling is pretty lousy.


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## God (May 31, 2010)

Yes it does. How can a state of being solo a verse?

And here's the quote:



> "God". The Root. The source of everything in the universe and the end of everything in the universe. The place where all phenomena originates. The goal of the magus is to reach it. One way of describing it would be "ultimate knowledge", but the term ultimate relies on parameters and reduces it to being something finite.
> 
> Araya tried to uncover it by tracing the roots of the soul, something that is there but not there (Schrödinger's cat; quantum mechanics); transparent and hence the focal point of a group conscious could be reached by working through it. Touko worked with the roots of the human body itself with the intention of creating the original human body; currently modern humans have become too complex and diverse genetically, as a result they cannot reach the grand source (which would be supported by Gilgamesh's assertions about humanity and Noble Phantasms (a number of additional powers may be developed but the weapon itself becomes too mongrelized as a result?) and the Unified Language theory). Tohsaka Nagato had believed he could reach it by reaching the state of nothingness (based on his martial arts background); enlightenment essentially





Charcan said:


> Your fortunetelling is pretty lousy.



I dont know what this means, so concession accepted


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## Crimson King (May 31, 2010)

And you completely missed the part where everyone has failed.


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## Cypher0120 (May 31, 2010)

Crimson King said:


> Where's the quote?



I think it's the one where Nagato Tohsaka thought he could reach Akasha by achieving Nirvana.

Granted, nothing much is known about what happened there. But achieving Nirvana is not the same as achieving Akasha.


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## God (May 31, 2010)

Crimson King said:


> And you completely missed the part where everyone has failed.



How does this change anything? 

It just means that so far, it has not been attained by anyone.


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## Crimson King (May 31, 2010)

> All magi wish to reach the Akashic Records, but it is outside of this world. The Mage's Association thinks all ceremony to reach it should be kept under its control. As it has no connection to this actual world, the Church, which is only interested in this world, finds it completely meaningless.
> "Akashic Records" is a name used to actually be able to pronounce 「　」, which is also referred to as "void", emptiness (空 kara?). *Although, because the Akashic Records is a name, it automatically can't be said to be the same anymore,* since 「　」 is just emptiness



Everyone already failed from the start.

And once again, that has nothing to do with the fight here.


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## Belly Ranks (May 31, 2010)

Protip:

If you want to best DBZ in the OBD, your going to have to come with hard facts and prove your point without senseless rambling on how hacked "x" is.

Its going to take more than that to become a high tier verse here.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (May 31, 2010)

Cubey said:


> How does this change anything?
> 
> It just means that so far, it has not been attained by anyone.



Except Ryougi Shiki. Cuz the natural way of reaching Akasha is dying. In Ryougi Shiki's case, since she has a male and female personality, only her male personality died. Leaving the female personality and the new 3rd personality later on.


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## God (May 31, 2010)

So she achieved Akasha by dying and at the same time not dying?

This sounds like some form of complex enlightenment.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (May 31, 2010)

Cubey said:


> So she achieved Akasha by dying and at the same time not dying?
> 
> This sounds like some form of complex enlightenment.



Oh yeah, it's complex. More specific, she was in a coma for 2 years. After she woke up, she got the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception and can see the lines and points of death.


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## Big Bοss (May 31, 2010)

Crimson King said:


> Stupid thread is stupid.
> 
> Also spite thread.



Please a spite thread would be putting this verse against Tenchi Muyo!, Xenogears or somenthing of that lvl of power if you say the Nasuverse is above DBZ then go on prove it.



Crimson King said:


> Also begging for a negging.



LOL!


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## Xelloss (May 31, 2010)

tobiah arronax said:


> Please a spite thread would be putting this verse against Tenchi Muyo!, Xenogears or somenthing of that lvl of power if you say the Nasuverse is above DBZ then go on prove it.



I just want you to point me to a way that DBZ have to deal with incorporeal and logia like enemies.


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## Cooler (May 31, 2010)

Xelloss said:


> I just want you to point me to a way that DBZ have to deal with incorporeal and logia like enemies.



If they're evil couldn't Badidi use his magic to control them?


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## Xelloss (May 31, 2010)

I dont think you can classify a type as evil, they are more like force of nature that bring balance.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (May 31, 2010)

Cooler said:


> If they're evil couldn't Badidi use his magic to control them?



Nope. Only way to deal with a Type is to have an Ether weapon like Black Barrel or the sword Slash Emperor has when he took down Type Jupiter. Admitedly, anyone who's not a Type or Akasha is fucked.


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## Cooler (May 31, 2010)

What about Badidi using his magic to BFR? He could send it to another planet.


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## Xelloss (May 31, 2010)

First babidi magic should be better than the reality warping power of each type


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## Cooler (May 31, 2010)

Are you saying it isn't better or that it is? 

I don't see why the Types reality warping will stop Badidi from moving them to another planet. Have they shown resistance to magic?


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## Xelloss (May 31, 2010)

Imprevius to magic, they change the rules of the world around them setting their own rules.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (May 31, 2010)

Cooler said:


> Are you saying it isn't better or that it is?
> 
> I don't see why the Types reality warping will stop Badidi from moving them to another planet. Have they shown resistance to magic?



The real problem is that Types are planet travelers and can survive space. Some can attack from orbit. And can Babidi's magic can work on gigantic monsters? Type Mercury is 40 meters tall and changes the environment by just moving. And Type Saturn is 3000 meters.


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## God (May 31, 2010)

What can the Types actually do to harm DBZverse?


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## Crimson King (May 31, 2010)

ORT turns them into crystals?


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## God (May 31, 2010)

That'll totally work on someone who was turned into candy.


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## Crimson King (May 31, 2010)

Cubey said:


> That'll totally work on someone who was turned into candy.



It certainly would.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (May 31, 2010)

Cubey said:


> What can the Types actually do to harm DBZverse?



Type Jupiter



Type Saturn



Type Venus



Type Mercury



And info on what is a Type



The ways to kill them is either having an Ether weapon like I said before or just being really really strong. Type Jupiter has a sort of Logia intangibility and it's poisons can kill you. But if you can kill it, Type Jupiter can self-destruct and was able to destroy an entire continent.


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## Xelloss (May 31, 2010)

And even there destroying their bodies is usless, they dont have a concept of death and destruction.


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## agentzero88 (May 31, 2010)

Not a regular of OBD here, but something of an expert on Nasuverse. Types, while they are ridiculously hax, probably can't survive DBZ level powers. They do warp reality just by existing, and are practically impervious to any kind of magic and even most conceptual effects. However, while they can tank stuff well above nuke level, it's been stated that they can be put down by brute force (although it probably won't kill them permanently). 

Nasuverse also has some true intangibles, which the most of the DBZ-verse shouldn't be able to touch at all, but since they lack the ability to fight on the level of DBZ-verse, it probably doesn't matter.

Nasuverse also has a defensive ability that can easily stop anything in the DBZ-verse, but it's only able to protect a small area and the protected can't interact with the rest of the world in any way until they lower the defense, so it's only really useful for a counter-attack. 

The "True Magics" might be useful. With the 2nd, Zelretch can gather infinite energy (though the rate at which he can gather is unknown) and hop between parallel universes. It is also implied to do a lot of other broken as shit things (such as materializing alternate possibilities), but we have no feats for them. The 3rd can make you completely unkillable and undamagable, but no one we know of can use it perfectly like that.

The Holy Grail can open a portal to Akasha, from which you can do pretty much anything you want (virtual omnipotence), but it to complete it it takes a ritual that usually lasts 2 weeks-ish, has failed all 5 times it's been conducted, and except for rare exceptions can only be conducted once every 60 years.

There is a Celtic god (Balor) who is able to actualize the death of anyone simply by looking at them, but he is only mentioned in some side material (think Databooks). Even then, against an orbital attack he probably wouldn't be much use.

And a Vampire in the form of a book that can score a guaranteed kill of any enemy regardless, but it destroys him (he has to regenerate for many years at least) and the nature of this ability hasn't been revealed, so we have no idea what it's conditions of use are.

If Alaya (collective human subconscious) feels threatened it can bestow presumably infinite energy on people and massively buff their physical stats, as well as spam infinite warriors which have infinite stamina and are all ridiculously superhuman (but not on DBZ-level). But if all humans are eliminated, it dies as well.

Gilgamesh has Ea, a semi-spammable weapon which fires blasts which can range from anti-person to at least 20 times city buster level and can match up with a speed of light blast. These blasts don't rely on brute force, but rather destroy the world itself (basically, if the floor your standing on is destroyed you can't stand on it anymore, if the plane you exist on is destroyed, you can't exist on it anymore), so no DBZ character should be tanking them, but Gil himself is nowhere near DBZ-level speed, so he is very vulnerable to speedblitzs. 

Nasuverse's best bet would be Ryougi Shiki's third personality. If we take her word for it, she can alter Akasha to erase anything from existence (kind of like traveling back in time and killing your enemy's grandfather, but much, _much_ better). Unfortunately, we never get to see her do this. Besides not having any feats, she is still limited by things like reaction time, dying when she's killed, and those other pesky things that come with being human. Still, if she's motivated to do so from whatever reason, and isn't killed before she gets the chance to, I see no reason why she couldn't win this.

Short of her, the only real way I can see Nasuverse standing any chance is Roa. He can reincarnate endlessly, as long as there are people with souls to reincarnate into, so theoretically, he could reincarnate into the DBZ characters as well, and take them over. However, he can be repressed for a good while by people of very strong will (power really has nothing to do with it) so it could take anywhere from a few minutes to years for him to gain complete control. 

I would say, if Ryougi Shiki's 3rd personality's hax or Roa reincarnating into DBZ characters are allowed, either one of them solos. Otherwise I can't see Nasuverse winning. I suppose if they are all grouped together Gil could cheap shot them with Ea while they power up, but that wouldn't be in character.


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## God (May 31, 2010)

^ Thanks, this helps a lot.



Crimson King said:


> It certainly would.



How? Vegeto retained sentience.



basch71 said:


> Type Jupiter
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The DBZverse has swords and beings strong enough to take them out. Janemba who was shaking two worlds, and has vast demonic abilities and dimensional manipulation. Dabora, a head demon, and they have Gohan with the Z Sword


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## Xelloss (May 31, 2010)

Slash emperor is not just sword and Janemba is no canon.


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## God (May 31, 2010)

> Ado Edem was first mentioned in Notes as the strongest of the Ether Liners, *enhanced humans that were able to create powerful Demonic Swords *from their own bones. His illustrations and additional info later appeared in Character Material.
> He is attributed with destroying Type Jupiter by slicing its core in half with his demonic sword, Slash Emperor.



They still have Dabura and Gohan.


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## agentzero88 (May 31, 2010)

Actually, it is heavily implied that Slash Emperor is really "just a sword", a really sharp one, yeah, but still a sword. It's only ability is stated to be growing to the appropriate size to cut the enemy. The reason it cut the atmosphere and revealed the "truth" behind the behind the blood sky was because it was so fucking big that time. It's said that Ado Edem (Slash Emperor's user) didn't stand out until the Types appeared, indicating he wasn't that great against more normal sized enemies.


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## Xelloss (May 31, 2010)

Ether based weapons already have the power of a nuke even the lowest of them, so is not just a weapon and EA is also a demonic sword. 

Dabura would get so owned by most anti demonic weapons, problem is Nasuverse would end having means to win, the best dragon ball can do is a tie (not able to kill some characters).


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## God (May 31, 2010)

Um, how is it not just a weapon? You haven't given any proof. Ea isn't a demonic sword.

Dabura doesn't even have to deal with the anti-demonic weapons, any character can take them out.

Nasuverse has no means to win against multi-planetbusters.


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## Xelloss (May 31, 2010)

And DBZ has no way to deal with incorporeals 

Holy grial can its basically dragon balls without limits.

EA is classified as a demonic sword also.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (May 31, 2010)

Xelloss said:


> And DBZ has no way to deal with incorporeals
> 
> Holy grial can its basically dragon balls without limits.
> 
> EA is classified as a demonic sword also.



I think this is true since a vast majority of Gil's original weapons from GoB were all demonic like Gram.


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## God (May 31, 2010)

Xelloss said:


> And DBZ has no way to deal with incorporeals





Cubey said:


> But anyways, it's still a win for DB, since they raped the verse with one character left standing who can't even do anything to them.





> Holy grial can its basically dragon balls without limits.



Holy Grail was never used at that capacity, and takes like 2 weeks.



> EA is classified as a demonic sword also.



Okay.


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## agentzero88 (May 31, 2010)

IIRC Ea doesn't have an alignment like Holy or Demonic. What it is is a Sword that existed before the world itself. I could be mistaken, but really it's alignment doesn't matter here.

A lot of the weapons in the Nasuverse would own DBZ characters easily, _if they could hit them_. If you want to say Dabura would get owned easily by anti-demon weapons, we can also say everyone and everything in DBZ verse would get owned by Mystic Eyes of Death Perception. The problem is, the only people who have MEoDP are humans who's best speed feat is at the very best slightly > mach 1 (and that is only inferred from bullet speed and doesn't match up with any of Ryougi's other speed feats).

Nasuverse's strength is in its ridiculous hax. Seriously, some of the stuff in this verse makes Accelerator seem fair. But it's weakness is in it's speed. Against DBZ, only the character's with hax that don't depend on combat are gonna stand a chance.

Against planet busters, the only way Nasuverse can win is if Ryougi's 3rd personality wipes all the DBZ characters from existence before she is killed. We know she can, but she has no feats of actually doing it. 

If it's last man standing, Roa solos. This really pushes the definition of a battle though, since it could take many years for him to get full control of someone like Goku and kill off the rest of the DBZ-verse.

If the Nasuverse starts out with completed Grail, they win. But if you give them an advantage like that, you can't even call it a fight.

Other than these three, I cannot think of a reasonable way for Nasuverse to win.


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## Tranquil Fury (May 31, 2010)

Dabura would not get owned just because he gets hit with holy swords or anti-demon weapons. No limits Fallacy do you know it?


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## agentzero88 (May 31, 2010)

No limits fallacy doesn't really work well against Nasuverse because the way the abilities work is so well defined. Nasuverse abilities operate on a conceptual basis mostly, so rather than beating them through sheer power you have to find loopholes. The whole point of a lot of abilities is that it's impossible to resist them through conventional means. For example, take the MEoDP - the burden of proof is on the DBZ side to prove that their characters have no "concept of death". Trying to invoke no limits fallacy on that is like trying to say "well, my guy is so durable that no sword could cut him" against a Death Note.

However, now that I think of it, I can't seem to remember a conceptual weapon that was specifically anti-demon. In fact, in Nasuverse demons are something completely different from what Dabura is, so even if there was one it wouldn't matter. 

Of course, none of this changes the fact that unless Ryougi uses her hax before the planet gets blown up or we are willing to accept Roa reincarnating into Goku and killing off everyone years later as a victory, DBZ wins.


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## Cypher0120 (May 31, 2010)

Goku's pure of heart. Roa can't possess him...I hope. Or was he only pure-hearted in Dragonball era?


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (May 31, 2010)

Excalibur is a holy sword and is anti-demonic. And the Church has anti-demonic weapons like Ciel's Seven.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (May 31, 2010)

Cypher0120 said:


> Goku's pure of heart. Roa can't possess him...I hope. Or was he only pure-hearted in Dragonball era?



Pure heartedness doesn't negate possession.


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## agentzero88 (May 31, 2010)

Roa does not possess people, he reincarnates into them and their soul becomes his soul. An evil heart is not necessary, only the presence of a soul.


> Excalibur is a holy sword and is anti-demonic. And the Church has anti-demonic weapons like Ciel's Seven.



Excalibur isn't a conceptual weapon. Was focusing on NPs and forgot Seven though, it would probably do the job.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (May 31, 2010)

agentzero88 said:


> Roa does not possess people, he reincarnates into them and their soul becomes his soul. An evil heart is not necessary, only the presence of a soul.



Technically possession. He did it to Ciel, Shiki in Ciel's path and Akiha in Kohaku's path.


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## agentzero88 (May 31, 2010)

Yeah, but it also can cause that paradox where if he dies and moves on to the next host but the body revives for whatever reason, they are considered the same person by the world. That was the whole thing behind Ciel's immortality. Normal possession wouldn't cause that kind of effect.


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## Crimson King (May 31, 2010)

I can see the following surviving:
Wallachia
Maybe Berserker via growing more and more resistant to their attacks
Maybe Saber
Ryougi Shiki via killing the concept of speed
Akasha
Zelretch via waling into another universe
Maybe Bazett if they're stupid enough to fire at her
ORT via turning them into crystals
Roa


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## Xelloss (May 31, 2010)

ALl types actually they can destroy thier body but they cant kill them, they would create a new body.


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## Cypher0120 (May 31, 2010)

Yes but they can potentially become nicer. Like VV.


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## Xelloss (May 31, 2010)

Yeash but like VV point out, fight vs the types is useless, they cant die and the worse more Types would keep comming from every single planet in the universe


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## agentzero88 (May 31, 2010)

> Ryougi Shiki via killing the concept of speed



Probably not. She could probably kill someone's individual momentum, slowing them to 0, or kill all the heat in something to make absolute zero (for whatever minuscule amount of time until all the heat around the object starts rushing into it, causing a huge temperature drop that could kill her).

Despite MEoDP being ridiculously hax, some people take it overboard. For example, that time Ryougi supposedly "killed the distance"? Scene was translated and it turned out no such thing happened. 



> Yeash but like VV point out, fight vs the types is useless, they cant die and the worse more Types would keep comming from every single planet in the universe



While possible, Types don't have FTL travel as far as we know, and since nothing outside our Solar System has been touched upon by Nasu, we can't know for sure if each planet in the universe has a type. And even if we assume they do, that would be like saying " Zelretch brings hypothetical creature X, which can instantly kill all the DBZ characters at the same time, from a parallel world." It just doesn't fly.


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## Xelloss (May 31, 2010)

Ok they use rulebreaker and go a ritual fuze tatari with Ryogi Shiki and iamgen the worse match up for DBZ  with a direct connection to akasha for power source.


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## God (May 31, 2010)

^ Oh hey, she'll get one-shotted before doing anything.


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## Crimson King (May 31, 2010)

agentzero88 said:


> Probably not. She could probably kill someone's individual momentum, slowing them to 0, or kill all the heat in something to make absolute zero (for whatever minuscule amount of time until all the heat around the object starts rushing into it, causing a huge temperature drop that could kill her).
> 
> Despite MEoDP being ridiculously hax, some people take it overboard. For example, that time Ryougi supposedly "killed the distance"? Scene was translated and it turned out no such thing happened.



I've been looking for translations of that part of the novel.


----------



## Xelloss (May 31, 2010)

Cubey said:


> ^ Oh hey, she'll get one-shotted before doing anything.



Ohh hey sarcam... I would use visual aid next time.


----------



## God (May 31, 2010)

I know you were being sarcastic, but I'm still not seeing how anyone but the incorporeal beings survive the first 5 minutes.


----------



## agentzero88 (May 31, 2010)

> I've been looking for translations of that part of the novel.



Link removed

Translation of the scene in question and Ryougi's third personality's only fight. Contains zero distance killing or reality warping (though we know she can do the latter from her conversation with Mikiya at the end of vol. 7 and Word of God). Does contain some pretty ridiculous precognition.


----------



## Fang (May 31, 2010)

Quite honestly this may be slightly off topic but I really don't trust anything involving Type-Moon and its related series or whatever.


----------



## Knight (May 31, 2010)

What an lovely thread we got here...


----------



## Crimson King (May 31, 2010)

So now she has precog and can move faster than a thought.

I think she has enough time to do something.

And even if she can't there's still Akasha.


----------



## Fang (May 31, 2010)

Crimson King said:


> So now she has precog and *can move faster than a thought.*



Go ahead and quantify that.


----------



## God (May 31, 2010)

Crimson King said:


> So now she has precog and can move faster than a thought.
> 
> I think she has enough time to do something.
> 
> And even if she can't there's still *Akasha.*



lol. Akasha will do what when Shiki gets vaporized?


----------



## Tranquil Fury (May 31, 2010)

Shiki can be blitzed, R. shiki at best supersonic in reactions or so. This thread is filled with retarded wank or misunderstanding. Based on feats and shown characters Nasuverse gets stomped horribly over and over. 

Or I have a better solution since I don't like verses I support to be wanked, DEMAND PROOF for every claim. I'm staying out of this like I do most Nasuverse threads because of the wank.


----------



## Crimson King (May 31, 2010)

TWF said:


> Go ahead and quantify that.



I'm typing out anything that catches my attention in the translation of that part. Pay no attention to them until I finish.


----------



## Xelloss (May 31, 2010)

Ryogi have been calculated of beast lair at around mach 3-4 by novel feats (3 persona).

And I agree thus we would never use TOAA  as he lack feats on panel just been mention by others


----------



## God (May 31, 2010)

Xelloss said:


> Ryogi have been calculated of beast lair at around mach 3-4 by novel feats (3 persona).
> 
> *And I agree thus we would never use TOAA  as he lack feats on panel just been mention by others*



Are you fucking retarded? Stop with the arguments from repetition, that shit is fucking annoying.


----------



## Tranquil Fury (May 31, 2010)

Mach 3-4 is not comparing even to RRA arc where we have a calc for mach 14 Tao.


----------



## Fang (May 31, 2010)

Mach 14 to 28 actually.


----------



## Xelloss (May 31, 2010)

Cubey said:


> Are you fucking retarded? Stop with the arguments from repetition, that shit is fucking annoying.



You have done that since the wiki  get used to it.


----------



## God (May 31, 2010)

I already showed you the goddamn scan of TOAA doing something only a nigh-omnipotent+ could do (I say nigh-omnipotent because the you can't prove omnipotence)

That along with character statements is what makes TOAA omnipotent.

And I never brought up refuted claims.


----------



## Crimson King (May 31, 2010)

Here's that "faster than thought" part


> He only opened the palm of his hand and clenched it. But just doing that, however was too slow in the face of Ryougi Shiki?s sprint.
> 
> Araya, having no time to say anything or to even think, received it.
> .
> ...



And here's the precog:


> The magus slipped from the mansion that was his body, to the garden.
> 
> The grass garden around the mansion was within his barrier but not a part of the mansion. Even if the mansion is destroyed, the garden won?t be affected.
> 
> ...


----------



## Xelloss (May 31, 2010)

You prof someone else which is never called TOAA and I am still waiting for those 2 scan you say prove it with spiderman and mr sorcerer supreme.


----------



## agentzero88 (May 31, 2010)

Unless Shiki gets a heads up, she's gonna get killed before she can use her Hax. Word of God says at the very best she can fight defensively against extremely average Servants,  who aren't even close to DBZ level. She has the ability to win, it's just really, really, ridiculously unlikely that she'll get time to use it.

Pretty much the only chance Nasuverse has is Roa, but that's only if we accept him reincarnating into Goku or someone, possibly years after the rest of the Nasuverse was killed off, and killing the rest of the DBZ-verse. I personally see this as the most likely outcome, but dunno if it would count as a victory or not.

I'm pretty sure all the arguments have been presented, and all that's left is for everyone to decide who they think wins.


----------



## Crimson King (May 31, 2010)

agentzero88 said:


> Unless Shiki gets a heads up, she's gonna get killed before she can use her Hax. Word of God says at the very best she can fight defensively against extremely average Servants,  who aren't even close to DBZ level. She has the ability to win, it's just really, really, ridiculously unlikely that she'll get time to use it.
> 
> Pretty much the only chance Nasuverse has is Roa, but that's only if we accept him reincarnating into Goku or someone, possibly years after the rest of the Nasuverse was killed off, and killing the rest of the DBZ-verse. I personally see this as the most likely outcome, but dunno if it would count as a victory or not.
> 
> I'm pretty sure all the arguments have been presented, and all that's left is for everyone to decide who they think wins.



Shiki will know what will happen, as she was shown to have precog.

In the OBD, feats from the characters override author statement. For example, Kishimoto says Amaterasu is hotter than the sun, yet it barely burnt a coat.


----------



## God (May 31, 2010)

Xelloss said:


> You prof someone else which is never called TOAA and I am still waiting for those 2 scan you say prove it with spiderman and mr sorcerer supreme.



Lol those scans aren't on the internet, they're near impossible to find. Good luck, but I already told you the issue number and everything, so you can do your own research.


----------



## Crimson King (May 31, 2010)

We know TOAA is omnipotent. ok. No one can disprove it, so he's omnipotent.

Now, from what I read from the info from various sites and translations, I claim that Akasha is omnipotent. Disprove that Akasha is omnipotent.


----------



## God (May 31, 2010)

Crimson King said:


> We know TOAA is omnipotent. ok. No one can disprove it, so he's omnipotent.
> 
> Now, from what I read from the info from various sites and translations, I claim that Akasha is omnipotent. Disprove that Akasha is omnipotent.



Are you going to provide the info? We have one quote on Akasha, and even then it was called God, and not Akasha.


----------



## Crimson King (May 31, 2010)

Cubey said:


> Are you going to provide the info? We have one quote on Akasha, and even then it was called God, and not Akasha.



Link removed

In the novel:



> .... Spiral of origin, its where all cause and effect begin, where everything and nothing exist, that is my true identity. Even though we are just connected, but since I am part of it, I too am an equivocal existence, right? That is why I can do anything..hmm like restructuring the laws governing atomic matter, or go back in time to change the evolution and development of all life, to reconstruct the orders and laws of this world is easy for me too. Not making change to the existing world, but rather annihilate the old one with a new reality."


----------



## Raidou Kuzunoha (May 31, 2010)

I'll put it simple as possible. Nasuverse has the means to win like MEoDP BUT lack the physical capabilities to do so. Hence why I say everything that's not Akasha or a Type is boned. Type's are pretty much nigh-immortal but weapons like Black Barrel can beat the concept of death into them. Besides the known Types, there're the rest which haven't been introduced and lack of info, they can be worse than the ones introduced for all I know.


----------



## God (May 31, 2010)

Crimson King said:


> Link removed
> 
> In the novel:
> 
> ...



Not even close to omnipotence. Shit like this is casual in PS, any comic series, hell even Bec in Homestuck is called an Omnipoterrier. High-scale reality warping, but omnipotence? No, no, no.


----------



## Xelloss (May 31, 2010)

Thats just Ryogi stateing what she can do with her link to Akasha.


----------



## God (May 31, 2010)

Ok.. that doesn't change what I said though.


----------



## Crimson King (May 31, 2010)

Yet, you didn't disprove Akasha's omnipotence.


----------



## God (May 31, 2010)

Again, where does that even mention omnipotence. You're bringing up that same point again.


----------



## Crimson King (May 31, 2010)

Cubey said:


> Again, where does that even mention omnipotence. You're bringing up that same point again.



Link removed


----------



## Ultimate Deathsaurer (May 31, 2010)

Crimson King said:


> Yet, you didn't disprove Akasha's omnipotence.



It's actually up to you to prove power equal to TOAA as the burden of proof is on the person making the claim. Have fun with that.


----------



## God (May 31, 2010)

Um, that's God, not Akasha.


----------



## Xelloss (May 31, 2010)

Ok Akasha created everything of his setting his multiverse and theres nothing above him, never have fail to do anything or have its power taken, TOAA only feat is creation same here.

Akasha = God in nasuverse


----------



## God (May 31, 2010)

Xelloss said:


> Ok Akasha created everything of his setting his multiverse and theres nothing above him, never have fail to do anything or have its power taken, *TOAA only feat is creation same here.*



Refuted hundreds of time. No it isn't, and I showed you. Had to red you.


----------



## Xelloss (May 31, 2010)

What other feat? manipulation is not a omnipotent feat is a feat anyone can do if he fail he would disprove his omnipotence thats another thing.


----------



## God (May 31, 2010)

I already showed you the scan. I'm not gonna keep posting every time you want to bring up shot arguments.

For now, I will accept your concession as you have nothing more to say.


----------



## Xelloss (May 31, 2010)

You have nothing to say, he just say I am god, and it never ever state he is TOAA; nor TOAA have claim to be god so your point is moot I accept your concession.


----------



## Riverlia (May 31, 2010)

I remember Arai (the one who wrote fuyuki wiki and actually has his pawns on the japanese material books and has the ability to read em) saying something to the effect of Akasha was hinted to be created by some even bigger 'someone'

So I'm not sure about omnipotent
But it should be a nigh-omnipotent multiversal entity, as everything in the Nasu multiverse happens according to it's 'record', even the existence of the multiverse itself. It's like the O/S that run the programs called universes.
Saying it's just high end reality warper is a bit... underwhelming.
I dont remember Dragon Ball having an equivalent one. So Akasha being on TOAA or not is irrelevant. Probably~


----------



## God (May 31, 2010)

Xelloss said:


> You have nothing to say, he just say I am god, and it never ever state he is TOAA; nor TOAA have claim to be god so your point is moot I accept your concession.



You brought this up before.



Xelloss said:


> You prof someone else which is never called TOAA and I am still waiting for those 2 scan you say prove it with spiderman and mr sorcerer supreme.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And before you say anything smart, I'd like to point out this: Link removed



> Cubey May 24, 2010 4:23 pm
> Then can you provide a link of the definition for Akasha?





> Xelloss May 24, 2010 4:26 pm
> I already did on the page before from DDD, but if what tobiah say is correct is mean be another work all together let me check.





> Cubey May 24, 2010 4:27 pm
> That was a quote, but I want to see the source..





> Xelloss May 24, 2010 4:31 pm
> DDD novel, good luck finding even half of it, I hear is a translation nightmare and not as popular as Tsukihime (And those who translate tsukihime claim to never again translate a nasuwork as theres ton of text and weird kanjis used).
> 
> It mosly say is not directly connect to Tsukihime, etc but is the same setting.


----------



## Xelloss (May 31, 2010)

I would like a link to that information, as all the one I have from fuyuki and tatari, beast lair claim omnipotence.

But I would lol if a mushroom is the omnipotent of Nasuverse


----------



## Crimson King (May 31, 2010)

Cubey said:


> Um, that's God, not Akasha.





> God
> 神 - Kami
> 
> (General rendition/imagery of God - probably matches with the Church version - in DDD)
> ...





> The Root
> 根源 - Kongen
> 
> *Akasha. "God". The Root. *The source of everything in the universe and the end of everything in the universe. The place where all phenomena originates. The goal of the magus is to reach it








Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> It's actually up to you to prove power equal to TOAA as the burden of proof is on the person making the claim. Have fun with that.



Again, it's impossible to prove omnipotence.



Riverlia said:


> I remember Arai (the one who wrote fuyuki wiki and actually has his pawns on the japanese material books and has the ability to read em) saying something to the effect of Akasha was hinted to be created by some even bigger 'someone'
> 
> So I'm not sure about omnipotent
> But it should be a nigh-omnipotent multiversal entity, as everything must happen according to it's 'record'.
> I dont remember Dragon Ball having an equivalent one. So Akasha being on TOAA or not is irrelevant. Probably~



He might have been talking about the other Akasha. There's the universal one, and the omnipotent one.


----------



## Xelloss (May 31, 2010)

Same setting the holy church link DDD to other nasuworks nice try.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (May 31, 2010)

wow this is a bad fucking joke...the one above all created an omniverse

a being who only wields a fraction of his power has made the IG look like shit and thanos wielding the heart of the universe rolfstomped all over said being...and an entire fucking omniverse

are we seriously pretending he has no feats when characters that wield a mere fraction of his abilities...have...shown to be amongst the single most potent characters in fiction?

fucking really?


----------



## Xelloss (May 31, 2010)

But his feats? no, other people feats we need his feats according to how people here are debating, so if they demand that, I ask the same prof.


----------



## Crimson King (May 31, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> wow this is a bad fucking joke...the one above all created an omniverse
> 
> a being who only wields a fraction of his power has made the IG look like shit and thanos wielding the heart of the universe rolfstomped all over said being...and an entire fucking omniverse
> 
> ...



Xelloss is just playing the proof game, since Cubey is demanding proof even when proof was shown. So Xelloss is just doing the same to mess with him.


----------



## Riverlia (May 31, 2010)

We cant really prove omnipotent
The info we got suggest omnipotence on multiversal scale 
But we dont have proof of omnipotence on omniversal scale
So, as I say, how about settling for multiversal nigh-omnipotent until there are more words of god and concrete evidences?
It's not like DB verse has anything equivalent to that.
What the hell are we arguing about omnipotent for?


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (May 31, 2010)

Xelloss said:


> But his feats? no, other people feats we need his feats according to how people here are debating, so if they demand that, I ask the same prof.



so basically you just ignoring key points in posts or lack reading comprehension then? when it is specifically stated and shown that  these characters are wielding *his power* indeed that it originates from *him* and nothing else..and that indeed these beings where wielding not..the true extent of his own might..yet these feats are...amongst the powerful in fiction-making his capabilities beyond refute in so far as performed feats go..and contradictions being utterly lacking and a consistency therein 


doing what your is not actually debating more...subverting the other peoples post and and using a bastardized version of the same simple logic their using...specifically  as a soap box..to rant about one of your favorite series

come now Xellos your a good poster you where one of the more..sane and bright voices that kept MFG from being the absolute pit of degeneration as opposed to just bad......I counted you amongst good quality...and fair minded posters (if you are indeed the same xellos from there...though your grammar and posting style is virtually identical to that xellos.)

why are you doing this then?


----------



## Azure Flame Fright (May 31, 2010)

There isn't really a difference between an infinite multiverse and an Omniverse, outside of Marvel.


----------



## God (May 31, 2010)

Crimson King said:


> Again, it's impossible to prove omnipotence.



Read it again, he said provide proof of equality to TOAA, not to prove omnipotence.

Also, Akasha is a location where everything comes from (it's called the Root). God is supposedly an omnipotent "phenomenon" (how is that even possible) and it's called Kami. They're clearly two different things.



Crimson King said:


> Xelloss is just playing the proof game, since Cubey is demanding proof even when proof was shown. So Xelloss is just doing the same to mess with him.



Again, I already gave him a fucking scan and he is constantly ignoring the ON-PANEL evidence. You have no such proof.


----------



## Xelloss (May 31, 2010)

Omniverse to start off is a bad term used by marvel, they down own every other fiction, they cant really hold the omniverse, by that statement Disney is the omniverse as it own marvel.

Same here there are feats of people using the power of Akasha yet people here dismish it and claim to need a feat of Akasha so for the sake of that argument I demand a prof of direct use of power of TOAA

@Cubey theres no such a panel because is a novel


----------



## Crimson King (May 31, 2010)

Cubey said:


> Read it again, he said provide proof of equality to TOAA, not to prove omnipotence.



I never made the claim Akasha was equal to TOAA. The claim i made was that Akashais omnipotent.


> Also, Akasha is a location where everything comes from (it's called the Root). God is supposedly an omnipotent "phenomenon" (how is that even possible) and it's called Kami. They're clearly two different things.





> Akasha. "God". The Root.


----------



## God (May 31, 2010)

Crimson King said:


> I never made the claim Akasha was equal to TOAA. The claim i made was that Akashais omnipotent.



I saw that already. And second, if he's omnipotent, he's equal to TOAA, so you have a standard to live up to.



Xelloss said:


> @Cubey theres no such a panel because is a novel



Is it not a visual novel?


----------



## Xelloss (May 31, 2010)

DDD is a novel, Kara no Kyokai is a novel, Fate and Tsukihime are visual novels


----------



## Crimson King (May 31, 2010)

Cubey said:


> I saw that already. And second, if he's omnipotent, he's equal to TOAA, so you have a standard to live up to.





			
				Endless Mike said:
			
		

> It's(omnipotence) impossible to prove, only disprove.


Go ahead and disprove Akasha's omnipotence.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (May 31, 2010)

Xelloss said:


> Omniverse to start off is a bad term used by marvel, they down own every other fiction, they cant really hold the omniverse, by that statement Disney is the omniverse as it own marvel.[E]



disney's had more then one multiverse....since the ninteen nineties...and we had freaking ducktales....with a character..that kinda..mass produced them....futurama style...


Xelloss said:


> Same here there are feats of people using the power of Akasha yet people here dismish it and claim to need a feat of Akasha so for the sake of that argument I demand a prof of direct use of power of TOAA



on what level are thesde feats...in what capacity...and where is the direct proof that it's akasha's powers being used?

thats a big difference maker


Xelloss said:


> @Cubey theres no such a panel because is a novel



then giveth us quote? 



Azure Flame Kite said:


> There isn't really a difference between an infinite multiverse and an Omniverse, outside of Marvel.



when you have more then one multiverse..in the fiction?


----------



## Azure Flame Fright (May 31, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> when you have more then one multiverse..in the fiction?



Except a multiverse is an infinite set of parallel universes.

If you have two multiverses, all you have is an infinite set of parallel universes.

There's only a difference because Marvel chose to make one, infinity is infinity.


----------



## Xelloss (May 31, 2010)

Omniverse (all fiction) >> Megaverse (lots of multiveres) >> Multiverse (a lot of universes) >> Universe.

We already provide quotes, hell CK did like 3 just now.


----------



## Azure Flame Fright (May 31, 2010)

All of which are just an infinite set of parallel universes. So in the end, there is no difference.


----------



## God (May 31, 2010)

Xelloss said:


> DDD is a novel, Kara no Kyokai is a novel, Fate and Tsukihime are visual novels



Ok.



Crimson King said:


> Go ahead and disprove Akasha's omnipotence.



Second, Akasha isn't a being, but a location (Root of the universe) and God is a so-called omnipotent "phenomenon". Not only that but it doesn't even have feats. Many characters have been stated to be omnipotent before, only four made it to true omnipotent. This include GPI, who is omnipotent and created a multiverse.

So that isn't enough to support omnipotence.

If you want to quote Endless Mike.



			
				Endless Mike said:
			
		

> Not quite enough for omnipotent but it should at least be moved up





Xelloss said:


> Omniverse (all fiction) >> Megaverse (lots of multiveres) >> Multiverse (a lot of universes) >> Universe.
> 
> We already provide quotes, *hell CK did like 3 just now.*



It was the same one.


----------



## Crimson King (May 31, 2010)

Cubey said:


> Ok.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Again, you have to disprove omnipotence.

Also, EM didn't know about the feats in this thread.


----------



## God (May 31, 2010)

Crimson King said:


> Again, you have to disprove omnipotence.



I like how you didn't address any points in my post.



> Also, EM didn't know about the feats in this thread.



Yes he did, everything in this thread was brought up there as well.
Also, what feats?


----------



## Crimson King (May 31, 2010)

Cubey said:


> I like how you didn't address any points in my post.



Already did that earlier.





> Yes he did, everything in this thread was brought up there as well.
> Also, what feats?



He didn't know about the quote from DDD. He didn't know about this quote:





> .... Spiral of origin, its where all cause and effect begin, where everything and nothing exist, that is my true identity. Even though we are just connected, but since I am part of it, I too am an equivocal existence, right? That is why I can do anything..hmm like restructuring the laws governing atomic matter, or go back in time to change the evolution and development of all life, to reconstruct the orders and laws of this world is easy for me too. Not making change to the existing world, but rather annihilate the old one with a new reality."


----------



## Xelloss (May 31, 2010)

CANNABIS SCIENCE, INC 

CANNABIS SCIENCE, INC

From one of the original translators of tsukihime and all this mess.


----------



## God (May 31, 2010)

Crimson King said:


> Already did that earlier.



No you didn't. All you said was scream about disproving omnipotence.



> He didn't know about the quote from DDD. He didn't know about this quote:



That pretty much says the same thing about Akasha as the other one: center of all things, reality etc etc. The entire omnipotence thing was covered (omnipotence bypasses all of that) so he wasn't really missing anything. If you want to show him, go ahead.


----------



## Crimson King (May 31, 2010)

Cubey said:


> No you didn't. All you said was scream about disproving omnipotence.





> Akasha. "God". The Root.



And you failed to disprove the omnipotence anyways.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (May 31, 2010)

Azure Flame Kite said:


> Except a multiverse is an infinite set of parallel universes.
> 
> If you have two multiverses, all you have is an infinite set of parallel universes.
> 
> There's only a difference because Marvel chose to make one, infinity is infinity.



according to you....as far as marvel and dc are concerned theres something larger then "infinite alternate  universes" hell eternity is some times portrayed as being one universe with all its alternate futures being..just reflections of it



Xelloss said:


> Omniverse (all fiction) >> Megaverse (lots of multiveres) >> Multiverse (a lot of universes) >> Universe.
> 
> We already provide quotes, hell CK did like 3 just now.



they where not exactly from what I saw indicative of the same state of being


----------



## God (May 31, 2010)

Crimson King said:


> And you failed to disprove the omnipotence anyways.



Again, you failed to address my points. You're abusing argument from repetition.



Xelloss said:


> CANNABIS SCIENCE, INC
> 
> CANNABIS SCIENCE, INC
> 
> From one of the original translators of tsukihime and all this mess.



That doesn't mention omnipotence anywhere. I'm looking for a source that proves the omnipotent quote CK showed.


----------



## Azure Flame Fright (May 31, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> according to you....as far as marvel and dc are concerned theres something larger then "infinite alternate  universes" hell eternity is some times portrayed as being one universe with all its alternate futures being..just reflections of it



Right, but that only applies to Marvel. (I'm not sure DC has an Omniverse)

In a neutral setting, the mad applications of one universe should not be taken as the norm. Just because Marvel says there's a difference between a Megaverse, and infinite parallel universes, doesn't mean there is in all fiction.


----------



## God (May 31, 2010)

Anyways I have to leave now. I will come back tomorrow.


----------



## Crimson King (May 31, 2010)

Cubey said:


> Again, you failed to address my points. You're abusing argument from repetition.





> The Root
> 根源 - Kongen
> 
> *Akasha. "God". The Root.* The source of everything in the universe and the end of everything in the universe. The place where all phenomena originates. The goal of the magus is to reach it


Perhaps you can see it now?


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (May 31, 2010)

Azure Flame Kite said:


> Right, but that only applies to Marvel. (I'm not sure DC has an Omniverse)
> 
> In a neutral setting, the mad applications of one universe should not be taken as the norm. Just because Marvel says there's a difference between a Megaverse, and infinite parallel universes, doesn't mean there is in all fiction.



the enormity..of the cosmology both pc dc..and marvel comics...though makes..it less of a mad fiat

and far more credible....

modern Dc maybe no..more..but then certainly


----------



## Xelloss (May 31, 2010)

If you want a good cosmology I would see Dungeons and Dragons


----------



## Azure Flame Fright (May 31, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> the enormity..of the cosmology both pc dc..and marvel comics...though makes..it less of a mad fiat
> 
> and far more credible....
> 
> modern Dc maybe no..more..but then certainly



I don't think I'm understanding your point.

Because Marvel has such a big cosmology, infinity doesn't mean infinity anymore?

You're going to need to explain that.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (May 31, 2010)

Xelloss said:


> If you want a good cosmology I would see Dungeons and Dragons



that wasn't the point of my post at all but thank you

@ CK buddy that certainly tells me exactly what the dude is...but can you give me some actual feats? or as xellos said some...TOAA level feats?



Azure Flame Kite said:


> I don't think I'm understanding your point.
> 
> Because Marvel has such a big cosmology, infinity doesn't mean infinity anymore?
> 
> You're going to need to explain that.



put it to you this way Eru creates a universe that by narration seems to be some what infinite...

do we consider this comparable to a multi-verse?

Marvel has...such a massive cosmology that it may require more then one multiverse to define it...in its set parameters

especially when..kirby considered infinity...to small a thing and him and lee built marvel around that that thought(dikto..did the morality work iirc)


----------



## Crimson King (May 31, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> that wasn't the point of my post at all but thank you
> 
> @ CK buddy that certainly tells me exactly what the dude is...but can you give me some actual feats? or as xellos said some...TOAA level feats?



Here's a quote from Ryougi Shiki, who's only connected to Akasha:


> .... Spiral of origin, its where all cause and effect begin, where everything and nothing exist, that is my true identity. Even though we are just connected, but since I am part of it, I too am an equivocal existence, right? That is why I can do anything..hmm like restructuring the laws governing atomic matter, or go back in time to change the evolution and development of all life, to reconstruct the orders and laws of this world is easy for me too. Not making change to the existing world, but rather annihilate the old one with a new reality."



Here's the quote from DDD:



> God
> 神 - Kami
> 
> (General rendition/imagery of God - probably matches with the Church version - in DDD)
> ...



Right now, I'm asking Cubey to disprove the omnipotence. Because as EM said, it's impossible to prove omnipotence.


----------



## Azure Flame Fright (May 31, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> put it to you this way Eru creates a universe that by narration seems to be some what infinite...
> 
> do we consider this comparable to a multi-verse?
> 
> ...



No, a multiverse is very clearly defined as multiple universes. That is why the definition stops there.

If you have multiple multiverses, all you have are multiple parallel universes. 

It doesn't require more than one multiverse, because a Megaverse and by extention an Omniverse is still just an infinite amount of parallel universes.

If a multiverse is an infinite number of universes, then what is two multiverses? Still an infinite number of universes. 

They are merely classifications. There is no actual difference.

Kirby and Lee not understanding the concept of infinity doesn't change it for the rest of fiction, and it especially doesn't change it for the OBD's neutral setting.


----------



## Knight (Jun 1, 2010)

Can I ask an innocent question? What Does Universes have to do with the fight again?


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Jun 1, 2010)

that does not...show me that he';s on the one above alls level..or the lts...lots of statements..but not much concrete in that manner though

I'd accept cube being though

edit: AFK not sure your getting it exactly


----------



## Azure Flame Fright (Jun 1, 2010)

There are universes in this fight I assume?

It's related some way. If we go really off-topic, a mod'll stop me.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> that does not...show me that he';s on the one above alls level..or the lts...lots of statements..but not much concrete in that manner though
> 
> I'd accept cube being though



Akasha is able to fully manipulate an infinite number of parallel universes. There is nothing outside of its power. 

Therefore it is on the same level as TOAA.


----------



## Crimson King (Jun 1, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> that does not...show me that he';s on the one above alls level..or the lts...lots of statements..but not much concrete in that manner though
> 
> I'd accept cube being though



That's why it's impossible to prove omnipotence, and only possible to disprove it.

Also, there are 2 "types" of Akasha. A universal Akasha, and the omnipotent Akasha. the omnipotent basically controls everythig in every universe in Nasuverse.

Anyways, that part should  be in the meta to discuss. Does everyone agree Akasha would beat DBZverse?


----------



## Xelloss (Jun 1, 2010)

Spiral of origin, its where all cause and effect begin, where everything and nothing exist, that is my true identity. Even though we are just connected, but since I am part of it, I too am an equivocal existence, right? That is why I can do anything..hmm like restructuring the laws governing atomic matter, or go back in time to change the evolution and development of all life, to reconstruct the orders and laws of this world is easy for me too. Not making change to the existing world, but rather annihilate the old one with a new reality." 

Here she Ryogi claim she can mess with the rules, acording the the authoer statement if she mess with time or reality is in a multiversal scale.


----------



## Knight (Jun 1, 2010)

Even if Akasha isn't omnipotent or is, the fact  He or it can create universes seems to prove he or it is at least a high level reality warper and that gives him the win right?


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Jun 1, 2010)

Azure Flame Kite said:


> T
> Akasha is able to fully manipulate an infinite number of parallel universes. There is nothing outside of its power.
> 
> Therefore it is on the same level as TOAA.



this if course  completely not true

very few cosmics in fiction compare to the one above all..

nothing I have seen presented gives akasha this...type of potency


----------



## Azure Flame Fright (Jun 1, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> this if course  completely not true
> 
> very few cosmics in fiction compare to the one above all..
> 
> nothing I have seen presented gives akasha this...type of potency



Akasha can fully manipulate an infinite number of universes.

The One Above All can fully manipulate an infinite number of universes.

They are equal.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Jun 1, 2010)

Azure Flame Kite said:


> Akasha can fully manipulate an infinite number of universes.[]



so can cosmic cubes...fuck four cosmic cubes can do just that

so can the IG..and more....

its still far beneath the LT....much less his boss 


Azure Flame Kite said:


> The One Above All can fully manipulate an infinite number of universes.
> 
> They are equal.



again your massively over estimating the nasuverse


----------



## Azure Flame Fright (Jun 1, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> so can cosmic cubes...fuck four cosmic cubes can do just that
> 
> so can the IG..and more....
> 
> its still far beneath the LT....much less his boss



Clearly they can't, because TOAA is able to cockblock them.



> again your massively over estimating the nasuverse



Not really, you're just overestimating TOAA. 

He's not in some exclusive club, where only those fictions that have adopted Marvel's "Omniverse" term is allowed in. His ability is to fully manipulate an infinite number of parallel universes, that is all.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Jun 1, 2010)

Azure Flame Kite said:


> Clearly they can't, because TOAA is able to cockblock them.



man you really need to familiarize yourself with the power structure and capabilities of marvel cosmics more because your touting out things that aren't even remotely impressive when measured up against some of the beings...in the MU 

what your describing..is not...the TOAA level at all its not even a being he'd notice

not when there'd be a dozen or so cosmic rentacops he'd easily command to go..;handle such a being for him





Azure Flame Kite said:


> Not really, you're just overestimating TOAA.
> 
> He's not in some exclusive club, where only those fictions that have adopted Marvel's "Omniverse" term is allowed in. His ability is to fully manipulate an infinite number of parallel universes, that is all.




no..you seem to be completely ignorant of the gap in power between what akasha capable of and what the LT is much less TOAA in terms of actual feats

maybe you should  debate with out any passion or personal preference...and approach this from a purely..."which guy has the better set of abilities" or "the more powerful bitches" in this case as it seems to be both..for both characters

oh and he is an in exclusive club..in so far as his capabilities are frankly far beyond anything..I have seen presented in this thread


----------



## Azure Flame Fright (Jun 1, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> man you really need to familiarize yourself with the power structure and capabilities of marvel cosmics more
> 
> what your describing..is not...the TOAA level at all its not even a being he'd notice
> 
> not when there'd be a dozen or so cosmic rentacops he'd easily command to go..;handle such a being for him



Right, I hear you saying it's not, but when you consider that you've given up trying to prove that the concept of infinity works the same in the OBD as it does in Marvel's nonsensical universe, there isn't much for you to back up your argument.

TOAA is equal to Akasha because they are both capable of the same thing.



> no..you seem to be completely ignorant of the gap in power between what akasha capable of and what the LT is much less TOAA in terms of actual feats
> 
> maybe you should  debate with out any passion or personal preference...and approach this from a purely..."which guy has the better set of abilities" or "the more powerful bitches" in this case as it seems to be both..for both characters



Alright, I'll try to phrase this more clearly so you comprehend it. Maybe then you'll be able to attack my argument rather than making baseless personal attacks.

TOAA is able to fully manipulate an infinite number of parallel universes.

Akasha is able to fully manipulate an infinite number of parallel universes.

Neither of them can be stopped from manipulating these universes by anything else in their fiction. 

They are equal.



> oh and he is an in exclusive club..in so far as his capabilities are frankly far beyond anything..I have seen presented in this thread



Right, only he's not. Nice attempt though.


----------



## Knight (Jun 1, 2010)

You both are getting off topic. The thread states DBZ vs Nasu not TOAA vs Akasha. Now I suggest you both move on.


----------



## Xelloss (Jun 1, 2010)

There are 2 silence rules, Nasufans always derail threads and there a recent movement anti visual novels


----------



## Crimson King (Jun 1, 2010)

Knight said:


> You both are getting off topic. The thread states DBZ vs Nasu not TOAA vs Akasha. Now I suggest you both move on.



If you see a thread about Nasuverse, expect it to be derailed by page 2. post 2.


----------



## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jun 1, 2010)

Crimson King said:


> If you see a thread about Nasuverse, expect it to be derailed by page 2. post 2.



This, so much.


----------



## Knight (Jun 1, 2010)

I getting the urge to report this thread if this crap continues.


----------



## Fang (Jun 1, 2010)

Azure Flame Kite said:


> Not really, you're just overestimating TOAA.
> 
> He's not in some exclusive club, where only those fictions that have adopted Marvel's "Omniverse" term is allowed in. His ability is to fully manipulate an infinite number of parallel universes, that is all.



Its kind of hilarious how you have zero idea what your talking about concerning Marvel here.

Living Tribunal has shown better feats, ergo, his power is better, his power is greater and the universes are more than Nasuverse. Let's take the Skyfather level of power/influence: Odin was killed, and his death was felt across all planes of existence and every level of reality and through the entirety of the Marvel multiverse.

That almost completely insignificant in the grand scheme of things to the Living Tribunal.

So I'll repeat, your analogy to try and compare this character with the literal God of Marvel is absolutely hilarious. 

Get over it.


----------



## Big Bοss (Jun 1, 2010)

Crimson King said:


> ORT turns them into crystals?



Let's see:


*Spoiler*: __ 





> *ORT.
> Ultimate One of Mercury *(?).
> One of the pals of the Ultimate Ones appearing in Notes...but is more like one of those clumsy girls you see on anime in that it landed on Earth just one step earlier (around 5000 years) by accident. It's thought that he's closed himself off in his Crystal Valley until the promised time.
> 
> ...






-





> *Said that as long as the battleground is earth, it has no weakness*.



First don't use this to say he is invincible and can't be destroyed that would be a no-limit fallacy and pure BS

-





> *so you'll have to destroy it physically*



Second a simple attack of any DBZ Mid-top tier would obliterate ORT.





Xelloss said:


> And even there destroying their bodies is useless, they don't have a concept of death and destruction.



Again you fail at understanding what it means to not have the *concept of death * 



> Further note that those eyes cannot be used on the Ultimate Ones as they do not have the concept of "death" (a time limit as we humans perceive). Shiki uses his own world of perception (that is the environment he was born in; the world "organic life" can exist in) as the lens for seeing death; the Ultimate Ones, as is the case of Ea (which is representative of the original state of the plent which isn't even possible to understand as long as one is an organic existence), have probably differed too much from the very origins of creatures born from Gaia for the laws of Earth to work on them; they carry with them their laws of nature even outside of their own homes and are closer to the true/perfect state of celestial bodies. Anything born from Earth can be understood and killed as there is a common background. However....



But let's not stop here let's see a quote of *Angel Notes*:



> "How could that be? In reality,* we have already defeated 3 Aristoteleses.* If we have more fire power than them, it's not an unstoppable opponent"
> 
> "I don't know about that. They can't be judged by this planet's common sense. That's why even a concept of death doesn't exist for them. They won't stop until they achieved their objective."



- 





> ]"How could that be? In reality,* we have already defeated 3 Aristoteleses.*



First the 3 that have been destroyed are Venus, Pluto, Jupiter and they haven't resurrected or things like that they remain destroyed.

-





> *"I don't know about that. They can't be judged by this planet's common sense. That's why even a concept of death doesn't exist for them."*



If you read the post above and this quote you would understand the reason of why the concept of death doesn't apply for the Ultimate ones it isn't that they "can't be destroyed" that is bullshit they can and DBZ Mid-Top tiers characters would do it with ease. 





Xelloss said:


> Ether based weapons already have the power of a nuke even the lowest of them



The lowest of them......This is like your argument of low charged EA which is bullshit, mind you I am not saying the Demonic Swords don't have Nuke lvl but for your information that is the highest output *"some"* of them have and I put some in black because not all the Demonic Sword are the same like the one Adon Edem has that only increases his length.



> Her appearance was a real angel. Her wings weren't used for flying, but used as a dish to collect the heavy particles in the surroundings. The angel species were able to fly without wings. Originally being the protectors of the A-ray called the Six Sisters, the angels were considered to have an equal fighting power as the Knights who carried the Demonic Sword.
> In other words, they can perform a destructive activity as a nuclear bomb on their own.



Now please see how they clearly say that they can perform a destructive activity as a nuclear bomb on their own but they never say "o the lowest of them has nuke lvl power" nop fact his that is the biggest output they have and not every Knight can do it Because not every Demonic Sword is the same.




> so is not just a weapon and EA is also a demonic sword.



LOL at you trying to use this to say EA has nuke lvl power.

This is what a Demonic Sword is also called knight arms:



> [knight arms] maken
> Demonic/Magical Sword
> The name of the weapon that Knights carry.
> All human species born in this world are effected by Gin. Babies born with a large amount of Gin in them shape it as if it's their bones during their lives, and when they reach adulthood, it is laid outside their body. Because it is created with the unanalyzed entity Gin, it is able to cause various effects and its power is strong enough to be considered a weapon.
> Only few humans can shape the Demonic Swords, and those who carry a Demonic Sword powerful enough to be used for war are considered as Knights. Only one Demonic Sword exists per Knight.



So lol no EA doesn't have Nuke lvl.


----------



## Big Bοss (Jun 1, 2010)

basch71 said:


> Type Jupiter





> * Type Jupiter - kuroi aristoteles
> The Black Aristoteles*
> An Aristoteles that appeared in the western continent.
> A black giant several dozen kilometers in size. Its form was pretty close to a human.
> ...



So like you see Type Jupiter has core in the center that the Slash Emperor sliced in half to destroy it because his Demonic Sword increases the length of the blade to match the size of the target:



That is the Slash Emperor and his Demonic Sword.

And any DBZ Mid-Top Tier would obliterate Type Jupiter.



basch71 said:


> Type Saturn





> *Type Saturn - jyuujika
> The Cross.*
> A 3000 meter long cross-like Aristotles.
> 
> ...



Again any DBZ Mid-Top Tier would obliterate Type Saturn.




basch71 said:


> Type Venus



First a quote from *Angel Notes*


*Spoiler*: __ 





> "...This may be the last time, so let me you ask you a question. What were you after all?"
> 
> The Angel made a sigh without any seriousness.
> 
> ...







*Spoiler*: __ 





> *"What are you going to do? Even if you have the same objective, that Cross and you are different things right? Then your body will be destroyed along with this city. You said you died instantly, but that's in our standars. I doubt the concept of death on this planet applies to a life form on another planet. Aren't you able to move already?"*
> 
> The Angel facing down shook her head.
> 
> ...






-





> *What I was, was shot down and fell to this place. It was an instant death. *



this is what she was:

-





> That day, the enemy that appeared through the clouds was beautiful than anything.
> *A pair of wings and a figure that somehow resembles a human. I shot that thing that looked like an angel. The bullet that is nothing more than a grain of bean to that thing, drilled into its forehead and dropped the angel.*



Venus was killed by Godo with just a shot of the gun barrel:



> *The Black Barrel.* A weapon constructed from the the Fifth True Theoretical Element, an element that causes the disintegration of the Fifth Imaginary Element. Dug up in the sealed region Atlasia by a vengeful Godo who participated in the Type Venus anti-drop operation.
> 
> Called by the Six Sisters, a Conceptual Weapon of Natural Life (Span). The bullet expelled by this gun will ignore all parameter values of those moving by True Ether (Grain) to deliver demonic damage. Like directly physically forcing a cancer cell in one's body.



Now the argument of saying "only Ether users and the Black Barrel can destroy Types" is BS because this is a versus between two different verse that don't have the same rules so by this stupid logic no one in DBZ could harm Servants because you need a magic weapon o some type of magic to be able to hurt them or defeat them but like I said this is bullshit because one powerful Ki blast would obliterate Type Venus without leaving any trace of it.

- 





> *feathers of the wings. The falling feathers took shape of what I used to look like. I was originally that kind of invading life form. It's not the angels that were originally on this planet."*



- 





> *"No. If I move, the outer shell of the wings will shatter. All the leaves of what everyone calls the World Tree will fall. If that happens, uncountable numbers of angels will come pouring down. If that happens, everyone will die before the Aristoteles comes"*



This is what happens when Type Venus gets to land and do her thing but like I said this won't be any problem because one powerful Ki blast from any Mid-Top tier in DBZ would obliterate Type Venus, not to mention that none of the Types have anything that can hurt any of those characters in DBZ. 


- - 





> *"What are you going to do? Even if you have the same objective, that Cross and you are different things right? Then your body will be destroyed along with this city. You said you died instantly, but that's in our standars. I doubt the concept of death on this planet applies to a life form on another planet. Aren't you able to move already?"*



This helps too for the part of the "Ultimate ones not having the concept of Death" 

- 





> *"But you'll die if you don't"*



No shit.




basch71 said:


> Type Mercury



Already cover this guy.



basch71 said:


> The ways to kill them is either having an Ether weapon like I said before or just being really really strong.



Something DBZ are easily.



> Type Jupiter has a sort of Logia intangibility and it's poisons can kill you. But if you can kill it, Type Jupiter can self-destruct and was able to destroy an entire continent.



Nop he doesn't have any type of Logia intangibility and self-destructing won't do shit to DBZ characters.


----------



## Big Bοss (Jun 1, 2010)

Crimson King said:


> I can see the following surviving:
> Wallachia



This one yes but he won't have anything to hurt any DBZ either so he is useless.



> Maybe Berserker via growing more and more resistant to their attacks



Nop he would get destroyed and he won't do shit to any DBZ character either so please let's not bring the no-limit fallacy again.



> Maybe Saber



Hell no.



> Ryougi Shiki via killing the concept of speed



Sure o wait she can't do that and she won't survive a semi-serious Ki blast.



> Akasha



Sure because she is going to fight...how? o yeah she hasn't show to be able to do it only via Shiki and Shiki would die so yeah no.



> Zelretch via waling into another universe



Yeah...no he would die before he does that and anyway even if he does that it won't matter he would loose you know this is a battle if runs then he is out if he stays he is dead.



> Maybe Bazett if they're stupid enough to fire at her



O but you are wrong because:



> *Fragarach:*
> 
> *only responds that way in regards to the trump card of the opponent*, whether it's a Noble Phantasm or not. Can be used normally, but it is the equivalent of a C or D ranked Noble Phantasm when used without those special conditions (the non-Answerer effect).



You see it responds when the opponent unleashes his ultimate attack but one regular hit or semi-serious Ki blast would kill her and Fragarach won't do shit so nop she isn't surviving either.



> ORT via turning them into crystals



Already cover this and no he won't survive.



> Roa



He would get killed with ease the first time and while he waits to reincarnate and wake up in the new body this fight would have ended a long but long time ago.




Xelloss said:


> Yeah but like VV point out, fight vs the types is useless, they cant die and the worse more Types would keep coming from every single planet in the universe



....please listen to this guy:



agentzero88 said:


> While possible, Types don't have FTL travel as far as we know, and since nothing outside our Solar System has been touched upon by Nasu, we can't know for sure if each planet in the universe has a type. And even if we assume they do, that would be like saying " Zelretch brings hypothetical creature X, which can instantly kill all the DBZ characters at the same time, from a parallel world." It just doesn't fly.



Get it?..this is a fight between two different verses that thing of "no they can't die" doesn't apply not to mention I already explained why they don't have the concept of death in Nasuverse but that won't work and doesn't apply in fights against other verses.




Crimson King said:


> > God
> > 神 - Kami
> >
> > (General rendition/imagery of God - probably matches with the Church version - in DDD)
> > ...



This is the one from the Nasuverse:



> Akasha
> 根源 - Kongen
> 
> "God". The Root. The source of everything in the universe and the end of everything in the universe. The place where all phenomena originates. The goal of the magus is to reach it. One way of describing it would be "ultimate knowledge", but the term ultimate relies on parameters and reduces it to being something finite.
> ...



And just because in the two of them says god they aren't the same thing so you can use a bigger font if you want CK it won't make DDD part of the Nasuverse.



Tranquil Fury said:


> Shiki can be blitzed, R. shiki at best supersonic in reactions or so. This thread is filled with retarded wank or misunderstanding. Based on feats and shown characters Nasuverse gets stomped horribly over and over.
> 
> Or I have a better solution since I don't like verses I support to be wanked, DEMAND PROOF for every claim. I'm staying out of this like I do most Nasuverse threads because of the wank.



And I totally agree with TF seeing a verse you support being wanked is annoying.


----------



## Azure Flame Fright (Jun 1, 2010)

TWF said:


> Its kind of hilarious how you have zero idea what your talking about concerning Marvel here.
> 
> Living Tribunal has shown better feats, ergo, his power is better, his power is greater and the universes are more than Nasuverse. Let's take the Skyfather level of power/influence: Odin was killed, and his death was felt across all planes of existence and every level of reality and through the entirety of the Marvel multiverse.
> 
> ...



Right, it's funny. We've all had a good laugh.

Now I'm still waiting to hear a difference.

The One Above All is able to fully manipulate an infinite amount of universes.

That is no different than what Akasha is capable of doing.

I'll be back tomorrow, have fun.


----------



## Xelloss (Jun 1, 2010)

Even if a Type if defeat it cant die, repeat after me, I cant die.

Lets see ORT skin is stronger than the strongest existance know to man, more head resistance, etc, etc.


----------



## Fang (Jun 1, 2010)

Azure Flame Kite said:


> Right, it's funny. We've all had a good laugh.
> 
> Now I'm still waiting to hear a difference.
> 
> ...



No, its funny because your repeating Red's argument from the Haruhi vs Mad Jim Jaspers thread, an argument proven to be flawed.  Even if the author or creator intends for his actual fictional universe only to be infinite but singular, that doesn't compare to one who does more.

The One Above All is omnipotent, this has been shown through the last 4 decades in Marvel's major cosmic events, TOAA is beyond anyone who can even destroy infinite universes making up infinite multiverses forming infinite megaverses forming the infinite Omniverse.

And even characters like Pre-Retcon Beyonder, Molecule Man, Thanos with HoTU or the Infinity Gaunlet are nothing to him.

Your argument is semantics, your knowledge is flawed and your reasoning is completely transparent with the comparison that you know is nonsensical.

Again I'll repeat: get the fuck over it.


----------



## Knight (Jun 1, 2010)

Can we keep TOAA out of this?


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Jun 1, 2010)

Tobiah is the only one who actually uses logic and please spare me TOAA argument even if he's not omnipotent he shits over characters who can solo 99.9% of fiction. TOAA>HOTU>LT>Scarlet Wicth=Omniversal. In Marvel a multiverse has infinite universes alone and marvel takes it further with Megaverse and Omniverse.

EDIR Yeah Knight it gets annoying to see TOAA mentioned in omnipotent debates.


----------



## Crimson King (Jun 1, 2010)

Should I remove Tobia from ignore to see what he posted?


----------



## Big Bοss (Jun 1, 2010)

Please someone tell him to not do it because regardless of what I have posted he would keep wanking the Nasuverse.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Jun 1, 2010)

Azure Flame Kite said:


> Right, I hear you saying it's not, but when you consider that you've given up trying to prove that the concept of infinity works the same in the OBD as it does in Marvel's nonsensical universe, there isn't much for you to back up your argument.]



and once again you completely ignore that there are a myriad of characters who are beneath the one above all who have feats that crap all over anything seen in the nasuverse


Azure Flame Kite said:


> TOAA is equal to Akasha because they are both capable of the same thing.



you have not proven this in any capacity what so ever



Azure Flame Kite said:


> Alright, I'll try to phrase this more clearly so you comprehend it. Maybe then you'll be able to attack my argument rather than making baseless personal attacks.



it's not a baseless personal attack....it's an assessment on your ability to objectively debate based on your conduct in this thread and any other when the nasuverse gets involved


Azure Flame Kite said:


> TOAA is able to fully manipulate an infinite number of parallel universes.



beings woefully beneath his level can do this regularly your point?


Azure Flame Kite said:


> Akasha is able to fully manipulate an infinite number of parallel universes.



so we've clearly established he is above the skyfather tier...


Azure Flame Kite said:


> Neither of them can be stopped from manipulating these universes by anything else in their fiction.



this means absolutely nothing..one universes god is another universes secretary

hell you cannot even prove that say kubik or cosmos wouldn't be able to enter the nasuverse and challenge akashas authority..and succeed

much less a monster like mxy..or lucy or the LT or the one above all




Azure Flame Kite said:


> They are equal.



you have not been able to prove this at all in any capacity you constantly ignore that the capabilities demonstrated by akasha compare in no way to the one above all



Azure Flame Kite said:


> Right, only he's not. Nice attempt though.



which only shows...a profound lack of marvel knowledge on your part..



Knight said:


> You both are getting off topic. The thread states DBZ vs Nasu not TOAA vs Akasha. Now I suggest you both move on.



there has been an issue of colossal unrestrained biased in nasu threads where upon those guilty of said biased have raged on with out even being able to prove anything

I'd say for the sake of forum stability and future threads nipping this garbage in the but now...is worth the mess

I do apologize If I've train wrecked your thread..but this is an on going issue that needs shutting down


----------



## Riverlia (Jun 1, 2010)

> First the 3 that have been destroyed are Venus, Pluto, Jupiter and they haven't resurrected or things like that they remain destroyed.


Types's body can be destroyed. They, however, do not die, just losing their body. That's what it mean by not having the concept of death like we perceive it.
'note', also known as 'angel note' revolves around the resurrected Venus
She just doesn't resurrect herself as the monstrosity she once was, instead opting to adopt the image that those living on her former body has of an angel.
And she cant play guitar.


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Jun 1, 2010)

Enough, I am still waiting for proof as to why characters whose speed is in the single digit mach don't get raped horribly by massively hypersonic moon-planet busters. Also No limits Fallacy, do people know it? Look I'm not going to keep correcting the wank so listen to Tobiah someone else whose read the material like me and actually understood.


----------



## Big Bοss (Jun 1, 2010)

Riverlia said:


> Types don't die, and they do continue to exist, but not necessary in their former body.
> 'note', also known as 'angel note' revolves around the resurrected Venus
> She just doesn't resurrect herself as the monstrosity she once was, instead opting to adopt the image that those living on her former body has of an angel.
> And she cant play guitar.



If you haven't notice I put quotes from Angel Notes I even put the quote when she is shot down by Godo so I am pretty sure that tells you that I have read Angel notes.



Tranquil Fury said:


> Enough, I am still waiting for proof as to why characters whose speed is in the single digit mach don't get raped horribly by massively hypersonic moon-planet busters. Also No limits Fallacy, do people know it? Look I'm not going to keep correcting the wank so listen to Tobiah someone else whose read the material like me and actually understood.



Nah man I am tired of doing this too.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Jun 1, 2010)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Enough,
> I am still waiting for proof as to why characters whose speed is in the single digit mach don't get raped horribly by massively hypersonic moon-planet busters. Also No limits Fallacy, do people know it?



beyond massive biased I have seen no evidence offered....by any poster other then crimson King who has made a dedicated effort to uphold his beliefs (which he always does..you rock ck)

honestly...it seems that this verse has more hyperbole and fallacy going for it then actual feats


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## Crimson King (Jun 1, 2010)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Enough, I am still waiting for proof as to why characters whose speed is in the single digit mach don't get raped horribly by massively hypersonic moon-planet busters. Also No limits Fallacy, do people know it? Look I'm not going to keep correcting the wank so listen to Tobiah someone else whose read the material like me and actually understood.



Wallachia and maybe the Types will survive.

Still waiting for the Akasha thing to finish.


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## Riverlia (Jun 1, 2010)

> Enough, I am still waiting for proof as to why characters whose speed is in the single digit mach don't get raped horribly by massively hypersonic moon-planet busters. Also No limits Fallacy, do people know it? Look I'm not going to keep correcting the wank so listen to *Tobiah someone else whose read the material like me and actually understood*.





> If you haven't notice I put quotes from Angel Notes I even put the quote when she is shot down by Godo so I am pretty sure that tells you that I have read Angel notes.


Oh, and you guys claim that Venus never resurrected?

Everything else, I have no comment


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## Fang (Jun 1, 2010)

This is the worst thread in the OBD after Dark Samus vs Luke Skywalker 

I mean it


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## Xelloss (Jun 1, 2010)

Weird notes just have 3 or 8 chapters translated on english and even then VV state earth is doomed not matter how strong they get.

So a multiversal whatever reality warpers can't defeat dbz.... ok.


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## Crimson King (Jun 1, 2010)

Riverlia said:


> Oh, and you guys claim that Venus never resurrected?



You have a link to Notes? can I have it?


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## Tranquil Fury (Jun 1, 2010)

No they have feats and statements from reliable characters but they don't touch DBZ at all. They're ignoring the feats and using No limits Fallacy for the abilities/H4X and seem to misunderstand things as well. The feats can be read on youtube since people have posted scenes from the VNS. They're strength is their H4X but it should'nt be taken into No limits Fallacy level.



> So a multiversal whatever reality warpers can't defeat dbz.... ok



This has been explained, stop rehashing the argument.


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## Big Bοss (Jun 1, 2010)

Riverlia said:


> Oh, and you guys claim that Venus never resurrected?



For the love of......please go read the entire post and Angel Notes and see why Type Venus was able to stay alive and the other Types couldn't after being destroyed.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Jun 1, 2010)

Xelloss said:


> Weird notes just have 3 or 8 chapters translated on english and even then VV state earth is doomed not matter how strong they get.
> 
> So a multiversal whatever reality warpers can't defeat dbz.... ok.



of course you've proven these beings are multiverseal

still waiting on evidence to prove akasha can contend with beings who can destroy multi multiverses and win


no limits fallacy to an insane degree


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jun 1, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> beyond massive biased I have seen no evidence offered....by any poster other then crimson King who has made a dedicated effort to uphold his beliefs (which he always does..you rock ck)
> 
> honestly...it seems that this verse has more hyperbole and fallacy going for it then actual feats



Speed wise, everyone gets blitzed. DBZ characters are massively Hypersonic while the Servents are the fastest characters in the verse to date are low Hypersonic at best. Types are the only ones with the best durability, not counting Saber's Avalon.


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## Crimson King (Jun 1, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> of course you've proven these beings are multiverseal
> 
> *still waiting on evidence to prove akasha can contend with beings who can destroy multi multiverses and win
> *
> ...



Let's save that for another thread.

Going by your view, would Akasha be able to beat DBZ?


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## Xelloss (Jun 1, 2010)

I complety agree with the fact that if we forbid Akasha nasuverse would ve destroyed.

Types can't die you can destroy their bodies and they would resurrect sonner or later, they try to understand humanity first (VV actually say this).


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