# Nagato vs. Kyuubi



## Sharingan No Yondaime (Feb 19, 2015)

Kyuubi invades rain village and Bee gave Nagato all his chakra.

Knowledge: kyuubi doesn't know about Rinnegan
Condition: if nagato is pressured he can summon Gedo maze

Can nagato beat kyuubi?


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 19, 2015)

Bijuudama.

 Gg Nagato.


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## Kyu (Feb 19, 2015)

One of the few instances where it wouldn't matter if Nagato had the option of using CT or CST - neither are going to put Kurama down for good. Well..in CT's case Kurama can simply randomly fire off BD and destroy its core.

One of two things are going to occur:

1. Nagato somehow manages to soulfuck Kurama through Gedo Mazo

2. Kurama nukes and/or beats Nagato to death


Got a feeling the latter is more likely.


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## LostSelf (Feb 19, 2015)

I wonder if Nagato is able to do what Madara did with the Mazo. But well, Nagato has, aside from his huge chakra reserves, all of Bee's (counting Hachibi)?


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Feb 19, 2015)

8 tails casually broke out of his best move.  Not much he can too.

Too bad he never learned the almighty suplex.


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## LostSelf (Feb 19, 2015)

Actually, 8 tails broke the one Nagato made for 6 tails. He, despite being in bad shape, wasn't surprised that his CT was broken and even said was going to create a bigger one straight.

The thing is how big a healthy Nagato with a boost of Bee's chakra can create CT in order to trap full Kyuubi.


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## Jabba (Feb 19, 2015)

Should I assume this is 100% Kurama? If so, he bends Nagato over and shoves all nine tails up his dry anus.

Nagato's best chance is to use Chibaku Tensei, but even that's debatable. If there is knowledge (which there isn't in this thread), Kurama sends a Super Bijuudama towards the core and blows it sky high. Even without knowledge, Kurama has shown on various occasions that he is very cunning and will most likely be able to find out CT's weakness.

A testament to his intelligence is when he tricked Obito into using Kamui to absorb Kakashi into Kamui's dimension, only for Obito to become vulnerable to Kakashi's attacks as he phased through Naruto's punch. He was also able to tell Gaara to bring a near-death Naruto to Minato while being sucked in by Madara, proving that he can think under tense conditions. 

ST/CST, Nagato's last method of defense, won't do jackshit to someone like Kurama, who took *a senjutsu enhanced Rasengan barrage of this magnitude* followed by *a senjutsu enhanced Rasenshuriken* with *no noticable injury whatsoever*. 

Don't forget that KN6 Naruto not only shoved through a ST with no real effort but also had enough strength to send Deva flying immediately afterwards despite having its momentum stopped by ST prior. Yeah, you can say that it wasn't even CST and Nagato's version is stronger, but let's also not forget that 100% Kurama >>>>> BSM Naruto (War Arc) >> BM Naruto (War Arc) >= 50% Kurama >>>> KN8 >>> KN7 >>> KN6 Naruto. 

An empty Gedo Mazo gets nuked. Fill it up with all of the Bijuu and Nagato might gain the edge.  

All of Nagato's other techniques are worthless against Kurama.


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## Veracity (Feb 19, 2015)

Jabba said:


> Should I assume this is 100% Kurama? If so, he bends Nagato over and shoves all nine tails up his dry anus.
> 
> Nagato's best chance is to use Chibaku Tensei, but even that's debatable. If there is knowledge (which there isn't in this thread), Kurama sends a Super Bijuudama towards the core and blows it sky high. Even without knowledge, Kurama has shown on various occasions that he is very cunning and will most likely be able to find out CT's weakness.
> 
> ...



Great ass post and I agree with basically everything. Except I don't think Kurama is superior to BSM Naruto. You have to remember this version of Naruto could also create super BD'S casually as well as the ability to make megazoid or human sized Bunshin. These Bunshin are all sage enchanced with multiple FRS varients, a powerful summoning contract, as well as Futton and resengan techs. Then there's the fact that Naruto got flash shunshin( redirects multiple Bjuidama) as well as two brains working together. BSM Naruto would most likely defeat full Kurama given his versatility.


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## StarWanderer (Feb 20, 2015)

Nagato has no feats to suggest he can use Gedo Mazo to absorb tailed beasts. 

The rest of his arsenal is fodder for Kyuubi. Nagato cant control him, Nagato cant do anything to him, and Nagato cant dodge/reflect/absorb Kurama's Bijuu Damas. Because his Deva, Preta and speed lacks feats. Bijuu Dama barrage - Nagato dies.


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## Nikushimi (Feb 20, 2015)

Shinra Tensei.

Shinra Tensei.

Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei
Shinra Tensei Shinra TenseiShinra Tensei Shinra Tensei
Shinra Tensei Shinra TenseiShinra Tensei Shinra TenseiShinra Tensei Shinra Tensei
Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei Shinra Tensei

The Kyuubi gets knocked down every time but gets back up every time.

Missiles in the face like DWAMN.

Chibaku Tensei.

Kyuubi busts that shit open.

Nagato's like "Dafuq."

Summons Gedo Mazo.

Tries to seal the Kyuubi.

Can't do it quickly enough without the rest of Akatsuki (which is weird, because Madara did it instantly and the 3rd Raikage could seal a Bijuu with that Amber Pot in like two seconds).

So now it's back to Shinra Tensei spamming.

Kyuubi is pissed.

But it can't retaliate. Because Shinra Tensei.

Finally Nagato is running low on steam so he gets into position to absorb the fox's chakra with Preta Path; maybe summons can help him pin it down.

Cue thirty minutes of a crippled guy rodeo.

Kyuubi eventually gets tired.

Nagato puts him down with a Chibaku Tensei, using his own chakra.

*twitch*

*twitch*

*twitch*

Gotcha! Kyuubi was caught!

The Kyuubi's data was added to the PokeDex!

"The nine-tailed fox spirit.  When it swings one of its tails, it is said to cause earthquakes."

Give a nickname to the captured Kyuubi?



-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --




P -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --




P H -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --




P H A -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --




P H A G -- -- -- -- -- -- --




P H A G G -- -- -- -- -- --




P H A G G E -- -- -- -- --




P H A G G E T -- -- -- --




OK


PHAGGET was sent to BOX1 in Bill's PC!




Nagato:


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## sabre320 (Feb 20, 2015)

Nikushimi said:


> Shinra Tensei.
> 
> Shinra Tensei.
> 
> ...



 oh you! but sadly kyuubi has a chakra roar that can send 8biju flying hundreds of meters away so lol shinra tensei and shinra tensei has a5sec cd..


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## Arles Celes (Feb 20, 2015)

Nagato is more powerful than Deva Pain who had trouble with K8 Naruto.

But then again 100% Kurama is more powerful than K8 Naruto.

I see Nagato lasting a bit but his strongest jutsus won't be able to put the bijuu down and will just prolong the inevitable.

...Unless he can somehow restrain/control Kurama by stabbing it with outer path bijuu controlling stakes.

Pretty hard to pull it off though...


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## Deer Lord (Feb 20, 2015)

> Gamabunta was used to pin 100% Kyuubi, so he's not much smaller than him
> Deva pain used ST to thrash 3 boss toads, gama being one of these, flinging them kilometers away
> Prime Nagato can spam such ST


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## sabre320 (Feb 20, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> > Gamabunta was used to pin 100% Kyuubi, so he's not much smaller than him
> > Deva pain used ST to thrash 3 boss toads, gama being one of these, flinging them kilometers away
> > Prime Nagato can spam such ST



kyuubi is considerabely larger....

Consider the following....
kn6 managed to overpower and reflect the same st that sent the toads flying..that was from 50%kurama this is 100% kurama..

50%kurama has a roar that can send 6 bijuu flying and he can spam it and unlike st it has no cd..this is full kurama..

kurama can also spam bijudama..


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## Arles Celes (Feb 20, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> > Gamabunta was used to pin 100% Kyuubi, so he's not much smaller than him
> > Deva pain used ST to thrash 3 boss toads, gama being one of these, flinging them kilometers away
> > Prime Nagato can spam such ST



That was extremely weird, during the Konoha invasion arc Gamabunta was roughly as big as Shikaku.

And Shikaku is roughly as big as 50% Kurama.

With 50% Kurama being way smaller than 100% Kurama.

Kishi messed up/retconned the sizes.


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## Deer Lord (Feb 20, 2015)

It's known that kishi can't scale

regardless
Bunta is bijuu-sized
deva can send him flying kilometers away
Nagato's ST does the same to kyuubi.

@sabre
There really is no on panel proof that any casual ST from deva is up to scale with his massive ST used against toads.
You could argue that ST is scaled to size, thus meaning Kyuubi can replicate KN6's feat
but the ST nagato used on naruto and bee far exceeds ST used by pain on human-sized targets, it's actually more akin to the boss sized ST in scale. So the argument falls short.


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## sabre320 (Feb 20, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> It's known that kishi can't scale
> 
> regardless
> Bunta is bijuu-sized
> ...



So let me get this straight deva used his strongest st against the frogs who he was casually dancing around and who were no threat and used his casual st against kn6 who was so fast and strong that deva was shitting bricks and had to resort to ct..

no whats probable is that deva used his strongest st barring cst and kn6 overopowered and reflected it..you say nagatos st are stronger well full kuramas gap is much larger compared to kn6... not to mention

50%kurama has a roar that can send 6 bijuu flying and he can spam it and unlike st it has no cd..this is full kurama..

kurama can also spam bijudama..


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## Deer Lord (Feb 20, 2015)

> So let me get this straight deva used his strongest st against the frogs


Obviously not, as he was not drained afterwards.

My guess is deva though a standard ST would be enough to send something of KN6's size flying
and he was wrong.

same ST would obviously not phase a single boss frog.


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## Ashi (Feb 20, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> > Gamabunta was used to pin 100% Kyuubi, so he's not much smaller than him
> > Deva pain used ST to thrash 3 boss toads, gama being one of these, flinging them kilometers away
> > Prime Nagato can spam such ST



1. Kind of an out lier

2. Nine Tails is still faster and can most likely get the first hit in... which would be fatal to Nagato


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## sabre320 (Feb 20, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> Obviously not, as he was not drained afterwards.
> 
> My guess is deva though a standard ST would be enough to send something of KN6's size flying
> and he was wrong.
> ...



Casual shinra tensei my ass kn6 blitzed him and he could only manage to activate st if naruto broke through he was dead thats why deva had every reason to put his full streength into it to ensure survival not to mention all paths were down meaning he would have nagatos complete chakra 

_Link_
_Link_

regarding him getting drained afterwards how would you know he was already lying on his ass from the reflection..and how can you claim that shinra tensei would not have phased the frogs?shinra tensei is not some rasengan that is dictated by size {cst being a exception} its repulsive force that works not based on size..


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## Deer Lord (Feb 20, 2015)

Yes, that is totally more impressive than these, aoe-wise:
_Link_
_Link_


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## Transcendent Shinobi (Feb 20, 2015)

Can Nagato beat 100% Kurama? No. But to be fair kishimoto made Kurama way to OP just for main characters sake. Nagato can easily kill/capture all the other 8 tailed beasts and could prob take multiple of the lower tailed beasts at the same time.

Its not that Nagato is weak its just that Kurama is so facking strong its just absurd.


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## Jabba (Feb 20, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> It's known that kishi can't scale
> 
> regardless
> Bunta is bijuu-sized
> ...



Why are you only factoring in weight and size? Even if Gamabunta is roughly the same size as Kurama, it doesn't mean that Gamabunta's phyiscal resilience and durability is on par with Kurama's. Going by that logic, I can also say that Iruka is as phyiscally resilient as Kaguya because they're roughly the same height and both are extremely skinny. 



> @sabre
> There really is no on panel proof that any casual ST from deva is up to scale with his massive ST used against toads.
> You could argue that ST is scaled to size, thus meaning Kyuubi can replicate KN6's feat
> but the *ST nagato used on naruto and bee far exceeds ST used by pain on human-sized targets, it's actually more akin to the boss sized ST in scale*. So the argument falls short



If, like you said, the ST that Nagato made dwarfs everything Deva did bar Chou Shinra Tensei, then that means that Nagato's ST and the toads were even weaker than I thought. 

Nagato's ST knocked Bee flying, sure, *but Bee didn't suffer any injuries whatsoever, and he was in base*. He didn't groan, he didn't have an agonized faced (he actually had the most chill face I've seen for a guy who was blasted away by a forest buster), and he had no marks on his face besides a spec of dirt. He even had no problem recuperating in midair to attack Nagato. 

That's pathetic. If Nagato's ST didn't give Base Bee that much trouble, there is no chance that it is doing shit to the Nine Tails, even CST. 



Deer Lord said:


> Obviously not, as he was not drained afterwards.
> 
> My guess is deva though a standard ST would be enough to send something of KN6's size flying
> and he was wrong.
> ...



So you're telling me that after seeing KN6 Naruto: 


Break the ground just by powering up


Resist and ultimately break the bind that the Hashirama's sealing necklace gave off


Blitz at an insane speed

that Deva would settle for anything less than a strong ST similar to what was used on the toads? It's not like Nagato's an idiot. His organization captures jins for a living so I'm pretty sure that he knew what Tailed Beasts were capable of, especially the strongest one of the nine.



Deer Lord said:


> Yes, that is totally more impressive than these, aoe-wise:
> but Bee didn't suffer any injuries whatsoever, and he was in *base*
> but Bee didn't suffer any injuries whatsoever, and he was in *base*



Just because it has a bigger blast radius doesn't mean that it is more powerful. ST is just a force being released in bursts. A small, heavily compressed ST can do more damage to a single target than a gigantic, lighter compressed ST. It just won't cover as much ground.


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## StarWanderer (Feb 20, 2015)

> Nagato can easily kill/capture all the other 8 tailed beasts and could prob take multiple of the lower tailed beasts at the same time.


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## Joakim3 (Feb 20, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


>



......Um any biju not named Gyuki or Kurama get utterly child stomped by Nagato 

If Nagato even has a fraction of the control Madara or Obito had with Gedo Mazo (which I would assume he would having been synced with the statue for the last what, 20 years?

Then yes, he could arguably take multiple down


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## Transcendent Shinobi (Feb 20, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


>



He could take the 8 tails out with CT. The one he used against the 8 tailed kurama wasn't even the biggest onehe could make. Also he used alot of chakra for the village detroying ST.

Also any tailed beast under 8 tailes doesn't even need CT to beat. Go watch this [3]

Also don't forget Nagato is far stronger then his avatar pain.

Edit: Actually I take back what I said about Nagato needing to use CT on 8 tails. Killer bee and KCM NAruto got raped by Edo Nagato who isn't even as strong as prime Nagato.

Nagato has the speed to dodge tailed beast bombs. All he has to do is spam asura path and then soul rip the 8 tails to win. He can always use CT but more often times then not I don't see him even needing it.


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## Jabba (Feb 20, 2015)

Transcendent Shinobi said:


> He could take the 8 tails out with CT. The one he used against the 8 tailed kurama wasn't even the biggest onehe could make. Also he used alot of chakra for the village detroying ST.
> 
> Also any tailed beast under 8 tailes doesn't even need CT to beat. Go watch this [3]
> 
> Also don't forget Nagato is far stronger then his avatar pain.



Pain vs Utakata isn't canon.


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## Joakim3 (Feb 20, 2015)

Jabba said:


> Why are you only factoring in weight and size? Even if Gamabunta is roughly the same size as Kurama, it doesn't mean that Gamabunta's phyiscal resilience and durability is on par with Kurama's. Going by that logic, I can also say that Iruka is as phyiscally resilient as Kaguya because they're roughly the same height and both are extremely skinny.



Because _Shinra Tensei_'s dynamics works in direct correlation with the targts size & weight.

In regards on how Shinra Tensei would effect Kurama, if he didn't anchor himself he would be rag dolled the same way the Gama trio were, only difference is he would tank the impact, as opposed to being one shotted



Jabba said:


> If, like you said, the ST that Nagato made dwarfs everything Deva did bar Chou Shinra Tensei, then that means that Nagato's ST and the toads were even weaker than I thought.
> 
> Nagato's ST knocked Bee flying, sure, *but Bee didn't suffer any injuries whatsoever, and he was in base*. He didn't groan, he didn't have an agonized faced (he actually had the most chill face I've seen for a guy who was blasted away by a forest buster), and he had no marks on his face besides a spec of dirt. He even had no problem recuperating in midair to attack Nagato.



By feats.... Killer B is one of _the_ most durable human sized characters in the manga.... 

We are talking about a person who tanked Juugo's CS2 enhanced punch in the face (which had more force behind it than Raikage's _Liger Bomb_).... Said _Liger Bomb_ having the power to crack _Sasuno'o_..........This was after being electrocuted mind you, and do you know what his reaction was? Laugh it off a second later via a troll _Shunshin_, and proceed to attempt to kill everyone with V1, for annoying them.

*Base* Killer B is in the same durability tier as people like RM Naruto, Nagato, Tsunade, V1 Ei, Orochimaru. The only people/entities above them are Raikagenaut, _Sasuno'o_ users, Biju and Rikudo wannabee's

And there is a massive difference in size between the _Shinra Tensei_ used against Killer B & company compared the Gama trio, as the later was calced in the neighborhood of a km+ in AoE, not a football field or two worth of forest 



Jabba said:


> That's pathetic. If Nagato's ST didn't give Base Bee that much trouble, there is no chance that it is doing shit to the Nine Tails, even CST.



Juubito's casual power bomb into the planet had the ability to completely shatter BM Naruto's & Sasuke's CS2 Sasuno'o into dust. 

A full powered Nagato's CST aimed at Kurama would shit on that, when you put into perspective that both  do damage via blunt force trauma, and the AoE Tendo's CST.

Yes Kurama isn't going dying or being K/O by any means, but being laid out and in a fuck ton of pain.... yes, very much



Jabba said:


> So you're telling me that after seeing KN6 Naruto:
> 
> 
> Break the ground just by powering up
> ...



Nagato purposely antagonized Naruto into those transformations, and flat out stated he wanted to test out Kurama, he was fully aware of what he was getting in to, the same way Orochimaru did

From Tendo/Nagato's reaction he did the typical over confident villain move and realized he underpowered _Shinra Tensei_ and it back fired... massively. Also consider the fact Tendo has a limited move set which means Nagato can't run the risk of Tendo using a massive ST (KN6 surviving) leaving his path a giant target for Bijudama spammage for the next minute or two

CT was the most intelligent move in the situation



Jabba said:


> Just because it has a bigger blast radius doesn't mean that it is more powerful. ST is just a force being released in bursts. A small, heavily compressed ST can do more damage to a single target than a gigantic, lighter compressed ST. It just won't cover as much ground.



Um yes it does... 

Nagato can't "compress" _Shinra Tensei_ power on a specific. He can only send the force in one direction (via the hands) or use it in an omnidirectional sphere.

The shock wave/ ground uplift that was seen against KN6 was the full power of the _Shinra Tensei_ Nagato sent in that direction, if he dumped more power into it the AoE would have naturally been larger simply by the mechanics of the ninjutsu





All of this is before we even start factoring that the rinnegan Edo Madara & Nagato where using where fakes and were canonically weaker than the real life eye. 

Kurama wins on a strictly feats by feats basis, but to think he's taking the match with anything less than hard difficulty when you factor the amount of gimping Nagato had during the manga to make him defeat-able is a bit hard to process


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## pluuuuffff (Feb 20, 2015)

Limbo: Hengoku uses Shadows. From what we saw, and from what i read on the databook, that shadow has durability BUT can only use TAIJUTSU.

Even knowing that she's strong, with taijutsu he knocked back 9 bijuus. Why can't a Chou Shinra Tensei, right in the face, do the same? 

After knocking her down, he just needs to absorve part of her chakra / seal her on the gedo mazo like madara did (but yea, ur going to say that's not possible so dont count this one) / removing her soul with ningendo path, using shurado cannons / using chibaku tensei / OR EVEN BETTER, he uses his chakra receivers IN EVERY PATH OF HER BODY, every point, every every point, like he did on naruto and on 6 tails. 

Bijuu Damas? Shinra Tensei repels everything do not matter the mass... Shinra Tensei normal can't repel the entire bijuu dama, but can change her trajetory pretty easily.

The only thing that kills Nagato it's the "Flash Bijuu Dama" (3 or 4 at the same time or almost), but that's the only chance that Kyuubi has to take down Nagato...

So: Nagato wins 9/10 in simulations.

You can answer me, but ur losing ur time if ur going to quote me and saying things like "Not possible", instead of proving that i'm wrong.


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 20, 2015)

pluuuuffff said:


> Limbo: Hengoku uses Shadows. From what we saw, and from what i read on the databook, that shadow has durability BUT can only use TAIJUTSU.
> 
> Even knowing that she's strong, with taijutsu he knocked back 9 bijuus. Why can't a Chou Shinra Tensei, right in the face, do the same?



 Well, first off, the Bijuu and BSM Naruto couldn't even perceive Madara's Limbo which is why he was capable of doing such a thing in the first place, though true, that does put Madara's strength on  a pretty high level.

 Chou Shinra Tensei won't be enough considering he has to store chakra in order to use it which leaves him vulnerable and its best feats are destroying a bunch of buildings which is pretty bad considering he failed to destroy the small Katsuyu's protecting the villagers.

 There's also the fact Pain's strongest ST that can be made without losing his powers failed to repel a KN6 Naruto which all Bijuu should dwarf pretty easily. There's no contest, ST is useless against the Bijuu.


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## ARGUS (Feb 20, 2015)

Nagato can win if he deflects kuramas TBB back at his face with a boss sized ST 
Apart from that he stands no chance


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## Jabba (Feb 20, 2015)

@Joakim3

Sorry, on phone right now so I can't type a detailed response. Just out of personal curiosity though: In your opinion, if Nagato's ST at that set time couldn't put a scratch on Base Bee, then how powerful would the ST have to be for it to put Base Bee down for good?


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## Joakim3 (Feb 21, 2015)

Jabba said:


> @Joakim3
> 
> Sorry, on phone right now so I can't type a detailed response. Just out of personal curiosity though: In your opinion, if Nagato's ST at that set time couldn't put a scratch on Base Bee, then how powerful would the ST have to be for it to put Base Bee down for good?



In terms K/O and or death, he's gonna need a localized ST around boss summon sized to put him down.... from <10m (where ST is most lethal) as opposed to the 50-60m+ meters when he was hitt by Edo Nagato


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## StarWanderer (Feb 21, 2015)

> Nagato can win if he deflects kuramas TBB back at his face with a boss sized ST



He cant. He has never deflected something with a kinetic force as powerfull as TBB's kinetic force. He lacks feats.

Kyuubi slaughterstomps.


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## sabre320 (Feb 21, 2015)

ARGUS said:


> Nagato can win if he deflects kuramas TBB back at his face with a boss sized ST
> Apart from that he stands no chance



hachibi tanked its own bijudama even half kurama is vastly superior to hachibi in durability full kurama is not going down from a bijudama..


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## Joakim3 (Feb 21, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> He cant. He has never deflected something with a kinetic force as powerfull as TBB's kinetic force. He lacks feats.
> 
> Kyuubi slaughterstomps.



First we have _Shinra Tensei_ anti-ninjutsu/chakra properties.... so when have zero idea how it would interact considering a SM Naruto's FRS was foddered by a casual ST with zero effort behind it. Honestly any single normal _Bijudama_ can be at _WORST_ deflected, when you consider it can normal ones can send Biju sized summons 10km away

Unless Kurama is charging a _Super Bijudama_ which he wouldn't do against someone of Nagato's level then his best bet is just to _Renzuki Bijudama_ Nagato to death so even if he deflects one or two, the other 2-3 still detonate near him, in which case if Gedo Mazo isn't right above him... he dies point blank


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## Bonly (Feb 21, 2015)

Nagato can prolly deal with Kurama for a bit but once those Bijuudama's start to fly it's gonna pretty much be a GG from that point on, both Nagato and Amegakure are fucked right in the down under mates.


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 21, 2015)

Joakim3 said:


> First we have _Shinra Tensei_ anti-ninjutsu/chakra properties.... so when have zero idea how it would interact considering a SM Naruto's FRS was foddered by a casual ST with zero effort behind it. Honestly any single normal _Bijudama_ can be at _WORST_ deflected, when you consider it can normal ones can send Biju sized summons 10km away



 Since when do Boss Summons compare to the size of 100% Kurama.

 SM Naruto's FRS is complete fodder. The AoE of the Expanded FRS doesn't even compare to the AoE of Kurama's Bijuudama as well as the fact that the FRS used on Pain was just a normal FRS, meaning it really shouldn't have done anything anyways.

 Like Sabre said, Hachibi tanked its own Bijuudama and BM Naruto's Kurama Avatar who struggled against Madara's inferior Wood Dragon while Kurama quickly broke through Hashirama's superior Wood Dragon could tank a Laserdama from the Juubi. ST isn't doing anything here.



> Unless Kurama is charging a _Super Bijudama_ which he wouldn't do against someone of Nagato's level then his best bet is just to _Renzuki Bijudama_ Nagato to death so even if he deflects one or two, the other 2-3 still detonate near him, in which case if Gedo Mazo isn't right above him... he dies point blank



 He doesn't need to super charge one. A Smaller Bijuudama from 100% Kurama can break through Wood Dragon and the Impact of the explosion is strong enough to blow Wood Golem to pieces. It's going to easily blow up Nagato regardless.

 Of course, that depends whether or not Kurama would use it against Nagato which he should as it's more likely he'd use it considering the Rinnegan's reputation.


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## Joakim3 (Feb 21, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> Since when do Boss Summons compare to the size of 100% Kurama.



Apart from this scan?



Yes there is a noticeable difference in size between the two but its not to the point where using Gamabunta as a reference is not relevant. 

Secondly take into account if Gamabunta _was so physically_ inferior to Kurama, wether it be strength or physical size, Kurama would have simply gotten up and backhanded him, yet was unable to before Minato could teleport them



NarutoX28 said:


> SM Naruto's FRS is complete fodder. The AoE of the Expanded FRS doesn't even compare to the AoE of Kurama's Bijuudama as well as the fact that the FRS used on Pain was just a normal FRS, meaning it really shouldn't have done anything anyways.



SM Naruto's FRS was fodder in the same way the _Shinra Tensei_ used against it was fodder, the point of the comment was _Shinra Tensei_ has anti-ninjust/chakra properties, not how much is required to stop it's inertia (something it has a *lot* of when it crossed _Chibaku Tensei_'s crater within one second)

Simply scale the FRS/_Shinra Tensei_ up to _Bijudama_ proportions and you'd essentially get your answer 



NarutoX28 said:


> Like Sabre said, Hachibi tanked its own Bijuudama and BM Naruto's Kurama Avatar who struggled against Madara's inferior Wood Dragon while Kurama quickly broke through Hashirama's superior Wood Dragon could tank a Laserdama from the Juubi. ST isn't doing anything here.



Hachibi was essentially one shotted by his own _Bijudama_ (granted he'd been fighting for quite some time). And those are more of strength/resistance feats, and don't necessary apply to how _Shinra Tensei_ would interact with a _Bijudama_

Secondly.... BM Naruto's _chakra avatar_ tanked that, something that doesn't feel pain when its being fried by a _Shinju's Lazerdama_ and can have limbs and tails chopped of with no affect to Naruto's physical performance. I'd imagine Kurama could survive, but he'd be left in a state more akin to Gyuki, intact but in a fuckton of hurt

Again if you think a very high-powered  ST can't replicate what Naruto did in his _human sized_ BM form by physically slapping them away then we might as well agree to disagree, even if you factor Kurama's larger default _Bijudama_



NarutoX28 said:


> He doesn't need to super charge one. A Smaller Bijuudama from 100% Kurama can break through Wood Dragon and the Impact of the explosion is strong enough to blow Wood Golem to pieces. It's going to easily blow up Nagato regardless.
> 
> Of course, that depends whether or not Kurama would use it against Nagato which he should as it's more likely he'd use it considering the Rinnegan's reputation.



Again Kurama breaking through _Wood Golem_ is a strength feat... Nagato could summon Gedo Mazo and do the same thing, it's not relevant to how a normal _Bijuadama_ would overcome a massive _Shinra Tensei_ aimed to deflect or negate it.

Again all Nagato has to do is deflect a Bijuadama in the same manner Hashiarma did...... something a massive _Shinra Tensei_ could do when you consider the kenetic energy behind the push. In regards to the _Bijudama_ detonation..... summoning Gedo Mazo would be _more then sufficient_ in terms of shielding him from everything bar a direct point blank _Bijudama_ (and even thats debatable if Gedo Mazo truly hadne't fully transformed before Naruto & Gyuki _Super Bijudama_ the country in an attempt to kill it. )


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## Pair (Feb 21, 2015)

no, the Kyuubi rapes. 

Tendou barely handles 6-tails, the complete full Kyuubi kills Nagato.

As for the gedo mazo, as long as it doesn't have bijuu in it, the Kyuubi destroys it as well.


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## Joakim3 (Feb 21, 2015)

Pair said:


> no, the Kyuubi rapes.
> 
> Tendou barely handles 6-tails, the complete full Kyuubi kills Nagato.
> 
> As for the gedo mazo, as long as it doesn't have bijuu in it, the Kyuubi destroys it as well.



Nagato had control fo Gedo Mazo with Biju 1-7 inside of it.... I'd imagine thats the one we'd be debating about, or a we talking about empty Gedo Mazo (which needs to be specified then)


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## Nikushimi (Feb 21, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> oh you! but sadly kyuubi has a chakra roar that can send 8biju flying hundreds of meters away so lol shinra tensei and shinra tensei has a5sec cd..



The 50% Kyuubi's roar barely mussed base Naruto's hair.

And exploiting the cooldown is easier said than done, for what is essentially a giant nine-tailed target.



Deer Lord said:


> > Gamabunta was used to pin 100% Kyuubi, so he's not much smaller than him
> > Deva pain used ST to thrash 3 boss toads, gama being one of these, flinging them kilometers away
> > Prime Nagato can spam such ST



^This.

Also, consider that Nagato > Pain.


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## Pair (Feb 21, 2015)

Joakim3 said:


> Nagato had control fo Gedo Mazo with Biju 1-7 inside of it.... I'd imagine thats the one we'd be debating about, or a we talking about empty Gedo Mazo (which needs to be specified then)



The Statue with 1-7 Tails in it can defeat Kyuubi.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Feb 21, 2015)

Kyuubi is just packing too much power and much more chakra he would run over all all of nagato's tricks eventually(besides sucking the kyuubi inside the mazo if he can do that). It already shrugged off chibaku tensei with just strength alone. Sure nagato is stronger than pain but so is 100% kyuubi compared to 50% kyuubi so just scale up.

Nagato also has no answer for rapid fire bijuudama's and giant sized bijuudama's which kurama makes casually at 50% power and they would deal with the gedo mazo too.


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 21, 2015)

CT from Nagato won't do anything anyways considering Sasuke's CT didn't even crush all of the Bijuu (which included * 50% * Kurama). Granted that wasn't Sasuke's best CT, but that should at least give an indication of 100% Kurama's durability.


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## Jabba (Feb 23, 2015)

Finally have access to a computer. 

@Joakim3

Sorry, but I really can't see CST doing much to the Kyuubi. Being pushed back? Sure. Toppled off of his feet? Maybe depending on how well he has himself planted on the ground using his tails. Hurt to the point where he's in "a fuck ton of pain"? Yeah, I don't see that happening. 

*Kurama took a bitch slap from v1 Juubi* (to gauge how strong its punch is, remember that the Juubi casually flicked Gyuki's Bijuudama with one finger as if it was a chip on its shoulder) *followed by a TBB*, only for Kurama to come out with 6 chakra tails being destroyed. Even afterwards, *neither Kurama or Naruto gave a single fuck.* Keep in mind that this was 50% Kurama who had pretty much been expensing chakra to Naruto for the duration of the war up to this point. So technically, we can't even call this 50% Kurama. 

In pure power,  the Juubi's punch followed by a TBB, in v1 or v2, is *leagues* above anything Nagato can do, even CST. I know you won't try to debate this with me since it's kind of common sense.


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## StarWanderer (Feb 23, 2015)

Joakim3 said:


> First we have _Shinra Tensei_ anti-ninjutsu/chakra properties.... so when have zero idea how it would interact considering a SM Naruto's FRS was foddered by a casual ST with zero effort behind it. Honestly any single normal _Bijudama_ can be at _WORST_ deflected, when you consider it can normal ones can send Biju sized summons 10km away
> 
> Unless Kurama is charging a _Super Bijudama_ which he wouldn't do against someone of Nagato's level then his best bet is just to _Renzuki Bijudama_ Nagato to death so even if he deflects one or two, the other 2-3 still detonate near him, in which case if Gedo Mazo isn't right above him... he dies point blank



Kyuubi's Bijuu Dama >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SM Naruto's FRS. And the fact he sent those Bijuu Sised summons flying proves nothing, since its not the same as deflecting something with a kinetic force comparable to that of Kyuubi's Bijuu Dama.

Nagato himself is below Kurama if he cant suck him up in Gedo Mazo.


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## TheGreen1 (Feb 24, 2015)

With how ungodly huge 100% Kurama is, (Remember we've been basing off of 50% Kurama avatars in Naruto and Minato), I don't think he'd be able to make a Chibaku Tensei strong enough to hold Kurama.


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## StarWanderer (Feb 25, 2015)

TheGreen1 said:


> With how ungodly huge 100% Kurama is, (Remember we've been basing off of 50% Kurama avatars in Naruto and Minato), I don't think he'd be able to make a Chibaku Tensei strong enough to hold Kurama.



Kurama slaughterstomps. 

Unless Nagato can use Gedo Mazo to absorb Kurama.


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## Raiken (Feb 26, 2015)

Is this 50% Kurama or 100% Kurama?


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## StarWanderer (Feb 26, 2015)

Cryorex said:


> Is this 50% Kurama or 100% Kurama?



Can Nagato use Gedo Mazo to absorb Kurama in it?


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## Raiken (Feb 26, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> Can Nagato use Gedo Mazo to absorb Kurama in it?


Apparently he can use it if he feels pressured.

I'd say it's a pretty close fight to be fair.
I think if the Kyuubi needs to defeat Nagato before Nagato realises he needs Gedou Mazou.

50% Kurama VS Prime Nagato w/ Gedou Mazou = Prime Nagato more than likely Wins.
50% Kurama VS Prime Nagato = Close, but Prime Nagato wins.
100% Kurama VS Prime Nagato w/ Gedou Mazou = Very close, could go either way depending on how it goes.
100% Kurama VS Prime Nagato = Close, but 100% Kurama wins.

That's the way I see it.

100% Kurama = Prime Nagato w/ Gedou Mazou > Prime Nagato > 50% Kurama.

I think the way Rinnegan Chakra Chains + Gedou Mazou works is the Rinnegan user has to be powerful enough to pull the Bijuu in, SM Madara w/ Hashirama's DNA was powerful enough to pull all 9 Bijuu in at once.

Now in regards to power of Chakra.
SM Madara >> Madara w/ Hashirama's DNA > EMS Madara
Prime Nagato's power of Chakra may be comparable to EMS Madara's.

Put it this way, he's likely powerful enough to drag in 50% Kurama, but 100%, I don't know.

Anyway, Gedou Mazou + Rinnegan is basically Bijuu Kryptonite.
I would say it's actually.

Prime Nagato w/ Gedou Mazou > 100% Kurama > Prime Nagato > 50% Kurama.


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## sabre320 (Feb 26, 2015)

Cryorex said:


> Apparently he can use it if he feels pressured.
> 
> I'd say it's a pretty close fight to be fair.
> I think if the Kyuubi needs to defeat Nagato before Nagato realises he needs Gedou Mazou.
> ...



rinnegan obito who stated his outerpath was stronger then nagatos could not pull in 50% kurama..

sm madara could do it maybe because he was basically a perfect rikudo at that point {excluding god level rikudo chakra }sm hashis body and both rinnegan in its original owner//


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## Ghost (Feb 26, 2015)

Kurama roars/steps on Nagato.


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## Jabba (Feb 26, 2015)

Cryorex said:


> Apparently he can use it if he feels pressured.
> 
> I'd say it's a pretty close fight to be fair.
> I think if the Kyuubi needs to defeat Nagato before Nagato realises he needs Gedou Mazou.
> ...



Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Gedo Mazo drain Nagato's life force after the latter summoned the former? That would automatically cripple Nagato. Not to mention the fact that he may or may not have the ability to use the Gedo Mazo's chakra chains to bind the Kyuubi. 

The ONLY chance Nagato has is having the Gedo Mazo filled to the brim with the other Bijuus pre-battle. Otherwise the empty Gedo Mazo gets nuked alongside with Nagato, and it wouldn't even be a close match, prime or not.


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## Raiken (Feb 26, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> rinnegan obito who stated his outerpath was stronger then nagatos could not pull in 50% kurama..
> 
> sm madara could do it maybe because he was basically a perfect rikudo at that point {excluding god level rikudo chakra }sm hashis body and both rinnegan in its original owner//


Rinnegan Obito was comparing his Outer Path to Crippled Nagato, who made use of the 6 Paths of Pain. Prime Nagato is hyped to be above Rinnegan Obito.

In addition, that Madara only had 1 Rinnegan, not 2.


Jabba said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Gedo Mazo drain Nagato's life force after the latter summoned the former? That would automatically cripple Nagato. Not to mention the fact that he may or may not have the ability to use the Gedo Mazo's chakra chains to bind the Kyuubi.
> 
> The ONLY chance Nagato has is having the Gedo Mazo filled to the brim with the other Bijuus pre-battle. Otherwise the empty Gedo Mazo gets nuked alongside with Nagato, and it wouldn't even be a close match, prime or not.


What we seen from Obito and then later Madara is different to how Nagato used Gedo Mazou.
Nagato powered up the Gedo Mazou using his Chakra, which was how it was able to use that overpowered Dragon Human Path Jutsu sucking everyone's souls out.
Obito and Nagato simply controlled the Mazou with their Chakra, they didn't attach themselves to it.
I don't see why Nagato would not do the same thing as Madara, control the Gedou Mazou while using Outer Path to attach Chakra Chains to the Bijuu and drag them into the Mazou. The difference is, Nagato is weaker than SM Madara but stronger than Obito. 
Obito likely never attempted it because he wasn't strong enough to, in addition he was spending a significant amount of Chakra to control his 6 Jinchuuriki Paths, since they all had Bijuu in them, the 5 Tails got out of his control for a period when in Bijuu Mode.

As I said before, in regards to Power of Chakra: SM Rinnegan Madara w/ Hashi DNA >> Rinnegan Madara w/ Hashi DNA >> EMS Madara.
Most people believe Prime Nagato to be around the level of EMS Madara, so perhaps they have comparable Chakra.

SM Rinnegan Madara was able to pull in all 9-Bijuu at once, while Kurama was weakened however "not 100%".
It's possible that perhaps Nagato could pull in a single Bijuu focusing his power pulling one in, but while my numbers are EXTREMELY rough and inaccurate, they do give a slight idea.

I doubt Crippled Nagato(Pain) would be capable of it, but I would say Prime Nagato, after a struggle, may be capable of pulling 50% Kurama into Gedo Mazou.
But I don't think he would be strong enough to pull in 100% Kurama.


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## Jabba (Feb 26, 2015)

Cryorex said:


> What we seen from Obito and then later Madara is different to how Nagato used Gedo Mazou.
> Nagato powered up the Gedo Mazou using his Chakra, which was how it was able to use that overpowered Dragon Human Path Jutsu sucking everyone's souls out.
> Obito and *Nagato* simply controlled the Mazou with their Chakra, *they didn't attach themselves to it*.



*I thought Nagato did?* The only reason why Madara and Obito didn't have to do it was because they *made a blood contract*, which in their case was only plausible because they possessed Sage chakra from having both Senju and Uchiha DNA. If Nagato could do the same thing, I doubt he'd let the Gedo Mazo shove a bunch of chakra rods in his back during his flashback even if he was bloodlusted. 



> I don't see why Nagato would not do the same thing as Madara, control the Gedou Mazou while using Outer Path to attach Chakra Chains to the Bijuu and drag them into the Mazou.



It's far-fetched for me to assume why and I might be wrong, but if you ask me, it could be because Nagato lacks Uchiha DNA, which - as evident - is required along with Senju DNA in order to evolve the MS into the Rinnegan. If that's the case, maybe he just can't use or isn't capable of using the Gedo Mazo to its fullest potential due to not having both chakras. 

I can't really prove this, but then again, you can't prove that Nagato CAN use it so this whole entire point is probably moot. 



> The difference is, Nagato is weaker than SM Madara but stronger than Obito.



If we're talking about MS Obito, then yeah, Nagato is "stronger" by a good margin. However, if we're talking about Rinnegan Obito, even pre Juubi Jin, he is arguably stronger. If we're talking about who is phyiscally stronger with no other factors tied in, Obito also wins merely by what has been shown in the manga. Hashirama DNA is fucking haxxed. 

"Prime" Nagato is something we'll never experience in canon work. It's just as much of a mystery as Prime Hiruzen or Healthy Itachi. Who's to say how strong they are? 10% stronger? 30%? 70%? Who's to say? It's subjective and any guess is purely fanfiction. 

Besides, I don't see how he'd be stronger than Rinnegan Obito even if "Prime Nagato" existed. The only thing Nagato had going for him him was more personal experience with the Rinnegan and a huge vitality from his Uzumaki lineage. Whereas Rinnegan Obito has the same Six Paths of Pain arsenal + one of the most haxxed MS + a vitality boost from Hashi's DNA + automatic healing + taijutsu that was, for the most part, on par with War Arc Kakashi. 

I'd say Obito would take it more times than not. 



> I doubt Crippled Nagato(Pain) would be capable of it, but I would say Prime Nagato, after a struggle, may be capable of pulling 50% Kurama into Gedo Mazou.
> But I don't think he would be strong enough to pull in 100% Kurama.



I was under the impression that we were talking about 100% Kurama.


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