# Lord Beerus vs Tyrant



## Worldbreaker (Dec 27, 2016)

I think this is pretty even 



vs


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## Montanz (Dec 27, 2016)

multi-galaxy is a huge fucking range, could be two galaxies, could be all the galaxies in the univers minus one.

I'll go with Beerus for DC, speed wise he should have the advantage as well.


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## Blαck (Dec 27, 2016)

Beerus might take the dc advantage although tyrant could give galactus a fight when even Odin can't really. But, considering it took the UN to take him out (well maybe this was just pis really on the other heralds part) he might be far above a multi galaxy threat.


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## trance (Dec 27, 2016)

Couldn't Tyrant engage a peak/near peak Galactus on a similar playing field in a battle that lasted years?

If so, that alone puts him far above Beerus or DBS in general


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## Blocky (Dec 27, 2016)

Was galactus well fed or weaken when fighting tyrant?


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## Blαck (Dec 27, 2016)

Blocky said:


> Was galactus well fed or weaken when fighting tyrant?


Sadly, It was never stated what condition galactus was in.


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## Montanz (Dec 27, 2016)

AFAIK Galactus usually operates at far lower levels of energy so tyrant being able to match him doesn't tell us anything about his standing.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 28, 2016)

Blαck said:


> Beerus might take the dc advantage although tyrant could give galactus a fight when even Odin can't really. But, considering it took the UN to take him out (well maybe this was just pis really on the other heralds part) he might be far above a multi galaxy threat.



considering he was so powerful he was able to override Thanos's insane durability and his even more insane damage soaks that's allowed him to stay functioning long enough to counter reality warps by abstracts...purely by grappling Thanos too hard?

Yeah he's outclassing the Sphinx cat in every field here..except style...I kinda prefer the Egyptian motif to steel dreads and a chest armor that looks disturbingly like a cyborg mouth

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## XImpossibruX (Dec 28, 2016)

Beerus is above universe level, but to an unquatifiable degree. Actually everyone except Zeno is just universe+ to some degree.

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## Worldbreaker (Dec 28, 2016)

Blαck said:


> Beerus might take the dc advantage although tyrant could give galactus a fight when even Odin can't really. But, considering it took the UN to take him out (well maybe this was just pis really on the other heralds part) he might be far above a multi galaxy threat.



To be fair it was never said that the UN was the only way to take out tyrant, Morg just used it


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## Blαck (Dec 28, 2016)

Worldbreaker said:


> To be fair it was never said that the UN was the only way to take out tyrant, Morg just used it


True, that's why I wouldn't lean on it as far as feats go. But given that tyrant still gave galactus a fight before morgs interference means something. Still lack of galactus' level hurts tyrant in this thread.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Kensei13 (Dec 28, 2016)

XImpossibruX said:


> Beerus is above universe level, but to an unquatifiable degree. Actually everyone except Zeno is just universe+ to some degree.


I have a feeling that the Grand Priest will be revealed to be the other multiversal character. He already has strongest fighter hype (manga)and Whis described his power to his father as basically fodder in comparison.


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## Worldbreaker (Dec 28, 2016)

Kensei13 said:


> I have a feeling that the Grand Priest will be revealed to be the other multiversal character. He already has strongest fighter hype (manga)and Whis described his power to his father as basically fodder in comparison.


Didn't they said he was only in the top 5?


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## Galactus The Destroyer (Dec 28, 2016)

I can honestly say beerus could probably kill the universe spread zamasu via his destruction abilities

 I attribute that only to his god of destruction given hax.

too bad they couldnt fight


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 28, 2016)

Again...if he's overriding Thanos's durability...then he's way above anything DBS you're not talking universal here...


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## trance (Dec 28, 2016)

Galactus The Destroyer said:


> I can honestly say beerus could probably kill the universe spread zamasu via his destruction abilities



Zamasu wouldn't be able to kill Beerus but the opposite is true as well, so it be a stalemate


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## xenos5 (Dec 28, 2016)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> Again...if he's overriding Thanos's durability...then he's way above anything DBS you're not talking universal here...



Do you mean hax-wise? Base Thanos having multiversal durability sounds a little strange to me (Zen'o destroyed all 12 universes in Future Trunks's timeline with the explosion from his own attack encompassing him but not doing any damage to him).


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## Blαck (Dec 28, 2016)

xenos5 said:


> Do you mean hax-wise? Base Thanos having multiversal durability sounds a little strange to me (Zen'o destroyed all 12 universes in Future Trunks's timeline with the explosion from his own attack encompassing him but not doing any damage to him).


Thanos doesn't multiversal durability...yet

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## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 28, 2016)

Blαck said:


> Thanos doesn't multiversal durability...yet



considering abstracts on the same tier as infinity and death were warping his body and shit and he was no selling it and reversing it?

its not durability..its hax resistance and soak...his durability isn't the only thing you need to bypass to defeat him.


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## xenos5 (Dec 28, 2016)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> considering abstracts on the same tier as infinity and death were warping his body and shit and he was no selling it and reversing it?
> 
> its not durability..its hax resistance and soak...his durability isn't the only thing you need to bypass to defeat him.



Ah. Alright. So he has pretty high tier hax. What's Tyrant's speed and durability like?

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## Gordo solos (Dec 28, 2016)

Tyrant was far more powerful than Heralds IIRC, so his reflexes should scale off the Surfer. I think he fought against Surfer too

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## Galactus The Destroyer (Dec 28, 2016)

Beerus and co. are immensely above universe level to an unknown amount

thought whats known is that as a side effect of champa and beerus merely fighting without using full power would destroy two universes, a side effect, not a direct attack.

Beerus could probably override conventional durability via hakai hax

 Even if tyrant was stronger than beerus, isnt the point of hax to defeat others stronger than you?


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 28, 2016)

xenos5 said:


> Ah. Alright. So he has pretty high tier hax. What's Tyrant's speed and durability like?



he basically casually matched and then dominated a guy who could overcome near time lord level time hax by moving slightly faster another guy who blitzed an IG wielder and Beta Ray fucking Bill IIRC

all the while casually no selling their best shots

so you know..stupidly high


Gordo solos said:


> Tyrant was far more powerful than Heralds IIRC, so his reflexes should scale off the Surfer. I think he fought against Surfer too



he should be at least as powerful as the version of Galactus capable of eating Celestials and hell lords...likely more so given he was created as a peer and "son"


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## Gordo solos (Dec 28, 2016)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> he should be at least as powerful as the version of Galactus capable of eating Celestials and hell lords...likely more so given he was created as a peer and "son"


I remember that he and Galactus destroyed galaxies when they fought. I mentioned Surfer as a baseline for speed because I forgot how fast Big G himself is


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## xenos5 (Dec 28, 2016)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> he basically casually matched and then dominated a guy who could overcome near time lord level time hax by moving slightly faster another guy who blitzed an IG wielder and Beta Ray fucking Bill IIRC
> 
> all the while casually no selling their best shots
> 
> so you know..stupidly high



So I take it he has hax defenses that won't allow him to be killed with just DC as well? 

Speed-wise GM calced Zen'o at 2 quintillion c from how fast his multiverse erasing attack spread


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 28, 2016)

Gordo solos said:


> I remember that he and Galactus destroyed galaxies when they fought. I mentioned Surfer as a baseline for speed because I forgot how fast Big G himself is



Big G's speed is whatever the fuck he needs it to be to smack a bitch...this is a guy who can mentally hurl galaxies around time and space while dying and routinely beats down people who move millions to billions of times the speed of light.

generally speaking when dealing with high end reality warpers..asking for speed feats is moot 



xenos5 said:


> *So I take it he has hax defenses that won't allow him to be killed with just DC as well?*
> 
> Speed-wise GM calced Zen'o at 2 quintillion c from how fast his multiverse erasing attack spread



Yes..as has been the case from day one, its just gotten more and more broken over the decades. Also, that calc isn't something I care about..I'd have to watch the series myself to see if the feat in question supports the math

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## Worldbreaker (Dec 28, 2016)

In all honesty beating 3 heralds, BRB, Chanpion, Jack of trades, and that warrior chick isn't really that impressive for characters like the ones on the thread

Almost killing Galactus on the other hand is impressive


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## Gordo solos (Dec 28, 2016)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> Big G's speed is whatever the fuck he needs it to be to smack a bitch...this is a guy who can mentally hurl galaxies around time and space while dying and routinely beats down people who move millions to billions of times the speed of light.
> 
> generally speaking when dealing with high end reality warpers..asking for speed feats is moot


The guy threatened to devour Mephisto's dimension and is much stronger than Odin 

Shit's insane

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## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 28, 2016)

xenos5 said:


> Alright.



Basically when it comes to Thanos he started at a level where he could manhandle guys like Gladiator and shrug off shit that could ruin solar systems..then he kinda went up from there



Gordo solos said:


> The guy threatened to devour Mephisto's dimension and is much stronger than Odin
> 
> Shit's insane




Odin a guy whose palm blasts shake multiple realities and just powering up flattens galaxies and causes Watchers in other timelines to go temporarily blind 

Yeah Galactus is nuts..Tyrant had to have been on an absurd level at his best.

edit- i should clarify when i say "asking for speed feats with reality warpers is moot" i mean fuckers on the level of guys like big G...who are also obviously stupidly fast and have preposterous range projection

Reactions: Like 2 | Informative 1


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## Montanz (Dec 28, 2016)

As far as I can tell he is only multi galaxy by statements , saying needing to overcome thanos' durability means you have abstract level firepower is a ridiculous assertion and requires the context for both feats of thanos tanking shit from abstracts and tyrant actually "surpassing" their power enough to overcome it.


And even then, their fight only ended with thano's clothes torn apart and with some scratches, thanos has been 'hurt' the same way by far, far less impressive shit than what you're claiming here.




Seriously, I don't know if you're talking about other issues where he fought thanos and erased him or some shit, but if this is the one you're using to support your claims I'm not convinced.

If you're willing to argue he somehow get's scaling from higher end showings of Galactus that's fine, but his power is inconsistent as hell from history to history and in this one, he only seems to be somewhere around Galaxy level which is a far cry from universal and the general level of celestials.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> Big G's speed is whatever the fuck he needs it to be to smack a bitch...this is a guy who can mentally hurl galaxies around time and space while dying and routinely beats down people who move millions to billions of times the speed of light.



And this doesn't tell us anything about Tyrants standing other than the fact he is >billions of times c  of which DBs characters have been in the hundreds since episode 2 , and actually there are calcs that put them at quadrillions to which Beerus scales to, so unless there is some calc laying around placing him faster than that I'm assuming Beerus is faster for now.


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## whatsausername (Dec 28, 2016)

Worldbreaker said:


> Didn't they said he was only in the top 5?


in the manga they said the grand priest is the strongest under zen'o.


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## Cooler (Dec 28, 2016)

Unless Tyrant is universal+ Beerus should take this. 

Is it just the one fight that Tyrant gets scaling to Galactus from? It seems likely that Tyrant would not betrey Big G when he was at his peak.


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## xenos5 (Dec 28, 2016)

Cooler said:


> Unless Tyrant is universal+ Beerus should take this.



Not that simple. You know how Beerus should be stronger than Fusion Zamasu but he isn't able to bypass Future Zamasu's immortality? Well from what IWD has been saying Tyrant should have hax defenses (not sure what they are as he hasn't specified them yet) that would require more than pure DC to bypass. 

He may also have really high tier hax to attack with since he bypassed Thanos's hax defenses (which have worked against powerful hax).


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## Cooler (Dec 28, 2016)

xenos5 said:


> Not that simple. You know how Beerus should be stronger than Fusion Zamasu but he isn't able to bypass Future Zamasu's immortality? Well from what IWD has been saying Tyrant should have hax defenses (not sure what they are as he hasn't specified them yet) that would require more than pure DC to bypass.
> 
> He may also have really high tier hax to attack with since he bypassed Thanos's hax defenses (which have worked against powerful hax).



The fight with Thanos didn't involve any hax iirc. Looked like a straight up brawl - Thanos had a bit of an amp at the time. The first fight with Galactus was mostly off panel so I'm not sure how Tyrant could have demonstrated any sort of hax or defence beyond what is usually associated with the power cosmic.

Mostly this depends on how far you want to stretch the scaling of Tyrant to Galactus. Putting him at universe+ is possible because of Big G's stats but hype and statements peg him at multi galaxy which is beneath Beerus' level.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 28, 2016)

Montanz said:


> As far as I can tell he is only multi galaxy by statements



statements don't override feats and if he was a legit threat to even a running on fumes Galactus he is far more than that.



Montanz said:


> saying needing to overcome thanos' durability means you have abstract level firepower is a ridiculous assertion and requires the context for both feats of thanos tanking shit from abstracts and tyrant actually "surpassing" their power enough to overcome it.



with the exception of Classic Odin and possibly the runner empowered by a gem no one but Tyrant has been able to simply brute force their way through Thanos's own formidable defenses and resistances.




Montanz said:


> And even then, their fight only ended with thano's clothes torn apart and with some scratches, thanos has been 'hurt' the same way by far, far less impressive shit than what you're claiming here.



mmhmm Thanos was not exactly breezing through that nor was he convinced he'd walk away.



[





Montanz said:


> If you're willing to argue he somehow get's scaling from higher end showings of Galactus that's fine, but his power is inconsistent as hell from history to history and in this one, he only seems to be somewhere around Galaxy level which is a far cry from universal and the general level of celestials.



inconsistent implies shoddy writing and no justifiable in universe reason for Tyrants fluctuations. DBZ characters are inconsistent...SBP for a long time was inconsistent, many characters suffer from inconsitency

Tyrant had an absolutely valid reason for the fluctuations of his power, namely he was stripped of the vast bulk of it and was attempting to reacquire it in story.



Montanz said:


> And this doesn't tell us anything about Tyrants standing other than the fact he is >billions of times c  of which DBs characters have been in the hundreds since episode 2 , and actually there are calcs that put them at quadrillions to which Beerus scales to, so unless there is some calc laying around placing him faster than that I'm assuming Beerus is faster for now.



and speed only matters when you can actually damage your opponent...Bills cannot.

one wonders though if history hasn't vindicated EM though




xenos5 said:


> Well from what IWD has been saying Tyrant should have hax defenses (not sure what they are as he hasn't specified them yet) that would require more than pure DC to bypass.
> .



Actually the Hax was in reference to Thanos his soak and durability are also drastically enhanced and backed up by Hax...Tyrant probably, certainly has some otherwise Galactus should have just been able to erase from his existence..but I was speaking purely for Thanos there

if big G actively trying to stop you..cannot simply turn you into sludge in a hyperlane then you're a bit more durable than what I'm seeing from here.

Then there's the fact that it was the UN what ended up killing him,

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## Blαck (Dec 28, 2016)

Cooler said:


> Unless Tyrant is universal+ Beerus should take this.
> 
> Is it just the one fight that Tyrant gets scaling to Galactus from? *It seems likely that Tyrant would not betrey Big G when he was at his peak.*


Tyrant was rather arrogant though so I doubt he gave a fuck. 



Montanz said:


> And this doesn't tell us anything about Tyrants standing other than the fact he is >billions of times c  of which DBs characters have been in the hundreds since episode 2 , and actually there are calcs that put them at quadrillions to which Beerus scales to, so unless there is some calc laying around placing him faster than that I'm assuming Beerus is faster for now.



Theres that xmen vs Ares speed feat that's in the quads level that any legit high herald scales to.

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## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 28, 2016)

Tyrant was as Black noted an arrogant douche, more so than usual for a cosmic story villain. So I don't doubt he tried to throw down with Big G at his best..not that it matters, even a near terminal Galactus has feats far above Bill here...though for debate purposes its less that Galactus won and more that he couldn't just erase tyrant from existence or someshit...

and he didn't have a reason to keep him alive ala the fallen one

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## xenos5 (Dec 28, 2016)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> statements don't override feats and if he was a legit threat to even a running on fumes Galactus he is far more than that.



How is Hungry Galactus, or Galactus at his absolute hungriest (which you seemed to imply with "running on fumes") universe level or universe level+? I thought Galactus had much poorer/more low end showings when hungry? being universe level or universe level+ sounds like mid-end Galactus not starved Galactus.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 28, 2016)

xenos5 said:


> How is Hungry Galactus, or Galactus at his absolute hungriest (which you seemed to imply with "running on fumes") universe level or universe level+? I thought Galactus had much poorer/more low end showings when hungry? being universe level or universe level+ sounds like mid-end Galactus not starved Galactus.



Because he's done shit at that level while dying? Usually when he's getting mobbed by the FF and crap like that its because he's really, really, really super mega fucked and beyond last dregs of power into "operating on a negative now" level?

Because the alien civilizations who have driven him off when he's hungry are people who make the Forerunners look like cavemen and are closer to the time lords? so its a low end showing by virtue of his actual full capacity..but by no means a low end showing in general.

Like I said when he's being floor flushed by the FF and stuff he is usually operating a tick or two from zero..and there's always a generous helping of PIS..plus Big G himself can be kind of a twat..which has blown up in his face a bunch of times

edit- i usually go like this

"high end cosmic character losing to the FF usually is a result of them catastrophically underestimating Reed's brilliance..or Thing has another one of his "embodies the warriors ethos" moment and they yield out of respect to a true bro  or some other sequence of events occurs and there's usually a pretty solid reason in universe"

"high end cosmic character or really anyone herald tier and up loses to an X men roster not containing magneto laugh at it and proceed as if its business as usual"

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## NostalgiaFan (Dec 28, 2016)

Montanz said:


> As far as I can tell he is only multi galaxy by statements


Except those statements are backed up by feats where a starved Galactus who was even further drained of energy by the Annihilation Fleet can destroy multiple Galaxies (and a Watcher who just happened to standing around, because) as a side effect of his "HERALD MY RAGE" moment. 

That Galactus was noted to be far more drained of energy then he normally is and considering Galactus in a much stronger form did not even want to fight Tyrant (not that he would lose but that the destruction caused by their fight would damage the universe too much) who was much weaker then he was way back when he first fought him, that says a fucking lot about how strong he was back in his prime. 

Thanos statements about him being Mutli Galaxy level stand and it could be argued that he might be stronger then that.

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## youresafenow (Dec 28, 2016)

Tyrant is a kid compared to Beerus.

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## Montanz (Dec 28, 2016)

"statements don't override feats and if he was a legit threat to even a running on fumes Galactus he is far more than that"

And what feats Did Galactus have at the time he fought tyrant to say he was any stronger than that?
Galactus' power canonically fluctuates between Multi-solar and casually Universal+ (sans UN) there are some instances of him being multiversal+ but they are few and far between to claim Tyrant should get any scaling to this.



"with the exception of Classic Odin and possibly the runner empowered by a gem no one but Tyrant has been able to simply brute force their way through Thanos's own formidable defenses and resistances"


This doesn't mean the energy required to break through them requires power on par with odin's which in any case is pegged at multi-galaxy to universal, the threshold is obviously lower than that otherwise Odin wouldn't have breaken through in the first place.


"inconsistent implies shoddy writing and no justifiable in universe reason for Tyrants fluctuations. DBZ characters are inconsistent...SBP for a long time was inconsistent, many characters suffer from inconsitency
Tyrant had an absolutely valid reason for the fluctuations of his power, namely he was stripped of the vast bulk of it and was attempting to reacquire it in story."

I wasn't talking about tyrant here, I meant Galactus' power is inconsistent, as in, it fluctuates a lot between his appearances and this is handwaved by him being malnourished.

"that's the reason nd speed only matters when you can actually damage your opponent...Bills cannot."

And what's the basis for this?. Galactus is not someone you can reliably scale to without raising some eyebrows for aforementioned reasons.


"if big G actively trying to stop you..cannot simply turn you into sludge in a hyperlane then you're a bit more durable than what I'm seeing from here"

for debate puposes hax resistances and physical durability feats are segregated, surving hax such as soulfuck, transmutation and erasure does not translate into being able to survive strong enough attacks, same goes the other way, busting an universe doesn't protect you from hax which is why speed is so important to DB, they have little hax resistance comparatively.

And even so Beerus can erase souls so if the threshold for bypassing his durability requires hax on top of raw power he fits the criteria.


"Then there's the fact that it was the UN what ended up killing him"
Clearly overkill.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## xenos5 (Dec 28, 2016)

youresafenow said:


> Tyrant is a kid compared to Beerus.



Based on what? Sounds like you haven't been reading through this thread at all.


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## Imagine (Dec 28, 2016)

This thread went nowhere fast


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## youresafenow (Dec 28, 2016)

xenos5 said:


> Based on what? Sounds like you haven't been reading through this thread at all.



He's just more powerful.

Reactions: Disagree 2


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## xenos5 (Dec 28, 2016)

youresafenow said:


> He's just more powerful.



Your claim is meaningless without evidence. IWD has given context and reasoning for his claims to support them. If you only know about Beerus and not about the character he's fighting (Tyrant) you cannot assume Tyrant's capabilities or that Beerus would be above them.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Worldbreaker (Dec 28, 2016)

You guys have to be kiding me by saying that a Starving Galactus is above Beerus


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## youresafenow (Dec 28, 2016)

xenos5 said:


> Your claim is meaningless without evidence. IWD has given context and reasoning for his claims to support them. If you only know about Beerus and not about the character he's fighting (Tyrant) you cannot assume Tyrant's capabilities or that Beerus would be above them.



Relax, I'm well aware of Tyrant's abilities.


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## NostalgiaFan (Dec 28, 2016)

Worldbreaker said:


> You guys have to be kiding me by saying that a Starving Galactus is above Beerus


What are you talking about? I have looked through this entire thread and no one has said anything like this.


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## Worldbreaker (Dec 28, 2016)

NostalgiaFan said:


> What are you talking about? I have looked through this entire thread and no one has said anything like this.



They said a near terminal Galactus has feats above Bills


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## NostalgiaFan (Dec 28, 2016)

Worldbreaker said:


> They said a near terminal Galactus has feats above Bills


Who is "they", your being very vague here. I don't see any post claiming that. Would you be able to provide a post that does?


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## NostalgiaFan (Dec 28, 2016)

Oh so you were talking about this post then?



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> So I don't doubt he tried to throw down with Big G at his best..not that it matters, even a near terminal Galactus has feats far above Bill here


Hey IWD could you show off feats that put a starved and weakened Galactus above Berrus? I legit want to know.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 29, 2016)

Montanz said:


> Galactus' power canonically fluctuates between Multi-solar and casually Universal+ (sans UN) there are some instances of him being multiversal+ but they are few and far between to claim Tyrant should get any scaling to this.


'


they're hardly few and far between actually and again sans PIS he's done things like BFR galaxies while weakened, broken into the realms of beings like the Vishanti and brawled them.






Montanz said:


> This doesn't mean the energy required to break through them requires power on par with odin's which in any case is pegged at multi-galaxy to universal, the threshold is obviously lower than that otherwise Odin wouldn't have breaken through in the first place.



I always find it amusing when people take feats that occur as a side effect of Odin cutting loose with the guys upper end




Montanz said:


> I wasn't talking about tyrant here, I meant Galactus' power is inconsistent, as in, it fluctuates a lot between his appearances and this is handwaved by him being malnourished.



which again would be incorrect...Galactus has an entirely valid in canon reason for the fluctuations in his abilities



Montanz said:


> And what's the basis for this?. Galactus is not someone you can reliably scale to without raising some eyebrows for aforementioned reasons.



sure you can, we did it all the time before calc crutching took over the site...it was very easy though it often left anime fans wailing and gnashing their teeth



Montanz said:


> And even so Beerus can erase souls so if the threshold for bypassing his durability requires hax on top of raw power he fits the criteria.



you can go ahead and prove he can erase the soul of a being like Thanos of course


NostalgiaFan said:


> Oh so you were talking about this post then?
> 
> 
> Hey IWD could you show off feats that put a starved and weakened Galactus above Berrus? I legit want to know.



unless people wanna put Bills at the level of beings like the Vishanti (at which point I'll just assume this place was coopted by MVC and call it a day) and above...he is.

in terms of control and hax and the like perhaps not raw DC especially when he's dying but the kind of casual temporal hax and reality warping he's done while in bad shape is on a scale a bit above dbz top tiers



youresafenow said:


> He's just more powerful.



wonderful rebuttal, a truly masterful articulation and validation of your claims!

fuck'n teach me sensei! Show me the way!

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## NostalgiaFan (Dec 29, 2016)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> 'unless people wanna put Bills at the level of beings like the Vishanti (at which point I'll just assume this place was coopted by MVC and call it a day) and above...he is.
> 
> in terms of control and hax and the like perhaps not raw DC especially when he's dying but the kind of casual temporal hax and reality warping he's done while in bad shape is on a scale a bit above dbz top tiers


That is what I was thinking you meant. I mean in DC Galactus obviously needs to be healthier to match or outmatch someone who is universal, but like always DBZ gets fucked when it comes to hax.

Though just to make your point more valid do you think you could show off some feats Galactus has done when very weakened or has there been anything that says Galactus does not have his hax limited as he gets weaker?

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## Gordo solos (Dec 29, 2016)

Super recently showed some nice hax actually. Black being able to resist getting erased from existence due to his Time Ring (as in, go back in time and kill Black in the past, it won't affect him in the present), Zamasu going all Giygas and merging with the Universe itself, Hit's time-skip, etc

The only hax that stands out for Beerus is that he can destroy non-corporeal spirits


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## NostalgiaFan (Dec 29, 2016)

Gordo solos said:


> Super recently showed some nice hax actually. Black being able to resist getting erased from existence due to his Time Ring (as in, go back in time and kill Black in the past, it won't affect him in the present), Zamasu going all Giygas and merging with the Universe itself, Hit's time-skip, etc
> 
> The only hax that stands out for Beerus is that he can destroy non-corporeal spirits


In a verse like Dragon Ball which is really lacking in feats for soul hax I don't think that is enough to deal with marvel characters that can match Galactus in regards to pure hax. Has anyone gotten some decent resistance to soul fuck in DBS? Because if they don't Beerus being able to destroy souls does not really rank up as impressive.

Time skip also is not that impressive when compared to full control over time like many Marvel characters can do, not to mention that I think Marvel has characters who can do more to erase you from existence besides killing you in the past. Giygas Zamasu is the only one that is impressive really in terms of hax but outside of becoming the universe what else is he capable of? It seemed weird how he was unable to kill Goku and Vegeta's group and I don't want to seem like I am down playing a scene that is most likely PIS but was there a reason they were still alive?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Blαck (Dec 29, 2016)

NostalgiaFan said:


> That is what I was thinking you meant. I mean in DC Galactus obviously needs to be healthier to match or outmatch someone who is universal, but like always DBZ gets fucked when it comes to hax.
> 
> Though just to make your point more valid do you think you could show off some feats Galactus has done when very weakened or has there been anything that says Galactus does not have his hax limited as he gets weaker?



Weakened Galactus has the ol' herald my rage feat, as far hax in his weakened state? tk on the surfer and a planetoid, survived a collision/battle with another abstract "Hunger" and while weakened the In-betweener couldn't take him out.

On a side note; Gordo that sig

Reactions: Like 2


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## Montanz (Dec 29, 2016)

"they're hardly few and far between actually and again sans PIS he's done things like BFR galaxies while weakened, broken into the realms of beings like the Vishanti and brawled them"

Don't really know anything about vishanti so I won't say anything about them.
BFR is an impressive show of versatility and range, but not one of DC.

"I always find it amusing when people take feats that occur as a side effect of Odin cutting loose with the guys upper end"

And Beerus was about to destroy the universe, the afterlife and the kaioshin realm as a side effect from fighting Goku while still holding back most of his power and still he is only considered universal so why is this even relevant?

"which again would be incorrect...Galactus has an entirely valid in canon reason for the fluctuations in his abilities"

But the point stands that his power fluctuates.

"you can go ahead and prove he can erase the soul of a being like Thanos of course"

Beerus isn't killing thanos, IIRC he is banned from death so actually managing to 'kill' him requires you to be in the upper end of multiversal, but Tyrant isn't thanos, and  specific hax like that requires specific showings of resistance.  I don't  doubt Tyrant has that ability by scaling to other power cosmic users, but that in no way implies he can't be incapacitated by strong enough attacks.


In my opinion the match boils down to who can attack first,Tyrant can hax beerus to death but Beerus can one shot him, you can use whatever shoddy powerscaling you want to place him at multiversal or whatever but really I'm not seeing anything conclusive that would land him higher than where he is rated at currently, but that's just me.


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## Gordo solos (Dec 29, 2016)

NostalgiaFan said:


> In a verse like Dragon Ball which is really lacking in feats for soul hax I don't think that is enough to deal with marvel characters that can match Galactus in regards to pure hax. Has anyone gotten some decent resistance to soul fuck in DBS? Because if they don't Beerus being able to destroy souls does not really rank up as impressive.
> 
> Time skip also is not that impressive when compared to full control over time like many Marvel characters can do, not to mention that I think Marvel has characters who can do more to erase you from existence besides killing you in the past. Giygas Zamasu is the only one that is impressive really in terms of hax but outside of becoming the universe what else is he capable of? It seemed weird how he was unable to kill Goku and Vegeta's group and I don't want to seem like I am down playing a scene that is most likely PIS but was there a reason they were still alive?


I meant it was impressive in general (definitely better hax than before), not by Marvel standards

As for the Giygas Zamasu thing, probably PIS considering that Zamasu didn't bother attacking the Z Fighters after killing all the humans. He also didn't start freaking out the moment Zeno popped up. Seems like plot armor there for the main cast, or Zamasu just wanted to get the last laugh by killing all of the humans in front of Trunks


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## Gordo solos (Dec 29, 2016)

Blαck said:


> Gordo that sig


EEnE is awesome

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 29, 2016)

NostalgiaFan said:


> Though just to make your point more valid do you think you could show off some feats Galactus has done when very weakened or has there been anything *that says Galactus does not have his hax limited as he gets weaker?*



oh he does, in the sense that the less he has in the tank the less he can fuck with shit on a major scale, but that just means he goes from someone who can say eat a celestial...to someone who can hurl Galaxies around and unleash near skyfather level destruction in a fury


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## NostalgiaFan (Dec 29, 2016)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> oh he does, in the sense that the less he has in the tank the less he can fuck with shit on a major scale, but that just means he goes from someone who can say eat a celestial...to someone who can hurl Galaxies around and unleash near skyfather level destruction in a fury


I assume the latter feat is him in a weaker form?


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## NostalgiaFan (Dec 29, 2016)

Gordo solos said:


> I meant it was impressive in general (definitely better hax than before), not by Marvel standards
> 
> As for the Giygas Zamasu thing, probably PIS considering that Zamasu didn't bother attacking the Z Fighters after killing all the humans. He also didn't start freaking out the moment Zeno popped up. Seems like plot armor there for the main cast, or Zamasu just wanted to get the last laugh by killing all of the humans in front of Trunks


Figures. Though from seeing his last reaction before getting wiped the fuck out by Zeno he clearly was conscience which makes it an even bigger case of PIS. Really wish writers would try to explain plot holes like that, and I am including all forms of media on that.

Reactions: Like 1


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 29, 2016)

NostalgiaFan said:


> I assume the latter feat is him in a weaker form?



teleporting around Galaxies yes, eating a Celestial..I'm actually not sure


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## NostalgiaFan (Dec 29, 2016)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> teleporting around Galaxies yes, eating a Celestial..I'm actually not sure


Remember the issue or was that a while back and it will take some finding?

Either way, has Tyrant shown some good scale of hax. I know he should be strong as fuck in his prime but did he also get some good showing or is it just from powerscaling?


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## Cooler (Dec 29, 2016)

NostalgiaFan said:


> Remember the issue or was that a while back and it will take some finding?
> 
> Either way, has Tyrant shown some good scale of hax. I know he should be strong as fuck in his prime but did he also get some good showing or is it just from powerscaling?



What hax has Tyrant shown exactly? He's arguably got resistance to hax because he fought Galactus but that doesn't mean he wields that same level of hax himself.


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## Chie (Dec 29, 2016)

Tyrant never showed any esoteric resistances.

The only reason Galactus couldn't defeat him the second time was because Galactus could only generate B-S-E (Biospheric Energy) blasts which Tyrant absorbed.


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## Toaa (Dec 29, 2016)

See lots of inconsistencies in this thread and no speed feats for tyramt except the hurr durr fought galactus which is nice of galactus wasnt the most inconsistent being in marvel.


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## Adamant soul (Dec 29, 2016)

youresafenow said:


> He's just more powerful.



You'll have no problems proving this then if you're so confident about it. 
Actually put your money where your mouth is and provide evidence to support your position for once.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Toaa (Dec 29, 2016)

Adamant soul said:


> You'll have no problems proving this then if you're so confident about it.
> Actually put your money where your mouth is and provide evidence to support your position for once.


I second that.


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## xenos5 (Dec 29, 2016)

Gordo solos said:


> Super recently showed some nice hax actually. Black being able to resist getting erased from existence due to his Time Ring (as in, go back in time and kill Black in the past, it won't affect him in the present), Zamasu going all Giygas and merging with the Universe itself, Hit's time-skip, etc
> 
> The only hax that stands out for Beerus is that he can destroy non-corporeal spirits



I know it doesn't matter much for this match but I think some of the recent hax you left out is worth adding to this. Goku being able to sense intangible/invisible shockwaves and dodge them somehow, goku being able to counter invisible/intangible shockwaves with ki (so he could probably defend against intangible attacks with his ki shield), Hit's shockwave attacks not only being invisible/intangible but capable of being sent through rifts and coming out a completely different rift for unpredictable trajectory, Hit being able to use the shockwave attacks even when his physical body is in the pocket dimension so he can't be attacked while he can still attack his opponent.


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## Cooler (Dec 29, 2016)

Just for general information;






Tyrant should be a multi galaxy level threat to borderline universal based on statements. Beerus should have him well covered in DC and durability. Tyrant hasn't demonstrated any offensive Hax that would put Beerus down either.


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## SSBMonado (Dec 29, 2016)

Cooler said:


> Just for general information;
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sounds to me like the stability referred to in the 2nd scan isn't about the universe falling apart physically because Tyrant is too stronk, but about Tyrant's meddling messing with Galactus' plans in some way. I don't know the context, though, so I could be wrong.

On a totally relevant note: Exactly what is up with the wires sticking out of Tyrant's mouth? They're distracting as all hell to me. It looks like he had the most low-budget jaw wiring procedure in history and just attached the wires to his shoulder pads.


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## Cooler (Dec 29, 2016)

SSBMonado said:


> Sounds to me like the stability referred to in the 2nd scan isn't about the universe falling apart physically because Tyrant is too stronk, but about Tyrant's meddling messing with Galactus' plans in some way. I don't know the context, though, so I could be wrong.
> 
> On a totally relevant note: Exactly what is up with the wires sticking out of Tyrant's mouth? They're distracting as all hell to me. It looks like he had the most low-budget jaw wiring procedure in history and just attached the wires to his shoulder pads.



That is what is being said. Tyrant was warlike and a pain in the backside. 

His DC is multi galaxy+ by statements. He hasn't shown the hax to bypass Beerus durability and Beerus has shown the capability to nullify energy attacks. Beerus should have an edge in this one.


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## Toaa (Dec 29, 2016)

SSBMonado said:


> Sounds to me like the stability referred to in the 2nd scan isn't about the universe falling apart physically because Tyrant is too stronk, but about Tyrant's meddling messing with Galactus' plans in some way. I don't know the context, though, so I could be wrong.
> 
> On a totally relevant note: Exactly what is up with the wires sticking out of Tyrant's mouth? They're distracting as all hell to me. It looks like he had the most low-budget jaw wiring procedure in history and just attached the wires to his shoulder pads.


It was the cool thing back then prob.


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## Cain1234 (Dec 29, 2016)

If beerus destroyes the afterlife and then kills you what will that classification of destruction be. Or he kills you and destroys the afterlife.

Is it a souldestroying/soulfuck attack?

If it is soulfuck. What degree of soulfuck will it be.

Cause this is a valid questions.

Cause Beerus can destroy both the universe and its afterlife as a side effect from just clashing fists.


If destroying the afterlife is classified as soul destruction. Then Beerus does have legit Universal+ Soul Destruction capability along with Universal Atomic Destruction.

Making him 100% even more broken.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 29, 2016)

NostalgiaFan said:


> Remember the issue or was that a while back and it will take some finding?
> 
> Either way, has Tyrant shown some good scale of hax. I know he should be strong as fuck in his prime but did he also get some good showing or is it just from powerscaling?



naw this shit happened in the seventies or something, fuck if I know what issue 



SSBMonado said:


> Sounds to me like the stability referred to in the 2nd scan isn't about the universe falling apart physically because Tyrant is too stronk, but about Tyrant's meddling messing with Galactus' plans in some way. I don't know the context, though, so I could be wrong.



Generally speaking if you kill Galactus you fuck the universe..so it could be referring to that as well

which is by no means a mark against Tyrant's capabilities at all

Reactions: Like 2


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## Cooler (Dec 30, 2016)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> Generally speaking if you kill Galactus you fuck the universe..so it could be referring to that as well
> 
> which is by no means a mark against Tyrant's capabilities at all



If that's what Galactus meant then he chose a very strange wording...


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 30, 2016)

Cooler said:


> If that's what Galactus meant then he chose a very strange wording...



not necessarily any engagement with Galactus where Galactus might lose technically puts the universe in danger by virtue of his defeat...any engagement where Galactus fights seriously enough..puts..well the universe and a few others in danger as well. I wasn't saying he meant that, only that it could also mean that..or that Galactus took him seriously enough to really fight it out.


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## Cooler (Dec 31, 2016)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> not necessarily any engagement with Galactus where Galactus might lose technically puts the universe in danger by virtue of his defeat...any engagement where Galactus fights seriously enough..puts..well the universe and a few others in danger as well. I wasn't saying he meant that, only that it could also mean that..or that Galactus took him seriously enough to really fight it out.



Again if Galactus was talking about his own safety it would have made more sense to say so - of course it could be interpreted that way but it's not the most logical understanding of that text. Beerus has greater 'threat to the universe' hype than Tyrant does.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 31, 2016)

Wait..you just said Bills has better "hype" then a guy who was "hyped" to be a legit threat to the well being of a dude who can eat Celestials and a sentient universe who has better feats than Bill?

taking that any which way still puts him above the guy


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## Gordo solos (Dec 31, 2016)

That makes me wonder if Beerus can actually put down Zamasu after he was merging with the Universe (who would count as a sentient universe). I'm still not sure where Giygas Zamasu stands


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## Juub (Dec 31, 2016)

Gordo solos said:


> That makes me wonder if Beerus can actually put down Zamasu after he was merging with the Universe (who would count as a sentient universe). I'm still not sure where Giygas Zamasu stands


Goku said Beerus couldn't have gotten rid of him right in front of Beerus. Usually Beerus is quick to reply to these kind of remarks so he likely had no way to kill that form of Zamasu.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## NostalgiaFan (Dec 31, 2016)

Juub said:


> Goku said Beerus couldn't have gotten rid of him right in front of Beerus. Usually Beerus is quick to reply to these kind of remarks so he likely had no way to kill that form of Zamasu.


Well that....says a whole lot about how strong Zamasu had become.


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## Cooler (Jan 1, 2017)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> Wait..you just said Bills has better "hype" then a guy who was "hyped" to be a legit threat to the well being of a dude who can eat Celestials and a sentient universe who has better feats than Bill?
> 
> taking that any which way still puts him above the guy



I was referring specifically to statements relating to the safety of the universe, Beerus has been flat out called a universe buster many times. The best Tyrant has is statements about universal stability - which is easily in line with other statements about him busting galaxies not a universe. 

Tyrant gets scaling to someone more powerful than Beerus true, but this someone can fluctuate quite wildly in power. When two Gods of destruction fight they threaten multiple universes, when Galactus and Tyrant fought only galaxies perished. 

If Beerus was in Marvel he'd be considered a bigger pain in the ass than Tyrant...Beerus takes this.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Chie (Jan 1, 2017)

Technically the only reason Tyrant could stand up to Galactus in the first place was because of his power to control Bioshperic Energy, which is especially useful against Galactus. But I don't think Tyrant would be able to defeat Odin since he can't feed off the Odin Force the same way.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Clutch (Jan 1, 2017)

Beerus would have sealed Zamasu's final form. Hell, he could have Hakaid Zamasu's final form then sealed him. I doubt Zamasu's final form is more powerful than SSB Goku of Vegeta, it's just intangible.


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## Cooler (Jan 1, 2017)

Chie said:


> Technically the only reason Tyrant could stand up to Galactus in the first place was because of his power to control Bioshperic Energy, which is especially useful against Galactus. But I don't think Tyrant would be able to defeat Odin since he can't feed off the Odin Force the same way.



Indeed, in their final fight Tyrant was actually powered up fighting Galactus by absorbing his energy blasts. Tyrant's technopathy wouldn't be useful either. 

This is basically a multi-galaxy guy fighting a universe+ guy. Beerus destroys him.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Jan 1, 2017)

Cooler said:


> I was referring specifically to statements relating to the safety of the universe, Beerus has been flat out called a universe buster many times. The best Tyrant has is statements about universal stability - which is easily in line with other statements about him busting galaxies not a universe.



the biggest difference being: Tryant doesn't come from a universe infamous for its unreliable narration, vagueries and ABC logic based interpretations of feats. As for that, again the dude was a near mortal threat to a guy who could wipe his ass with the DBU that you wanna low ball that is moot.



Chie said:


> Technically the only reason Tyrant could stand up to Galactus in the first place was because of his power to control Bioshperic Energy, which is especially useful against Galactus. But I don't think Tyrant would be able to defeat Odin since he can't feed off the Odin Force the same way.



Seeing as Bills can't defeat Classic Odin either kind of a moot point.

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1


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## Chie (Jan 1, 2017)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> Seeing as Bills can't defeat Classic Odin either kind of a moot point.


I'd disagree with you on that.


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## Cooler (Jan 1, 2017)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> the biggest difference being: Tryant doesn't come from a universe infamous for its unreliable narration, vagueries and ABC logic based interpretations of feats. As for that, again the dude was a near mortal threat to a guy who could wipe his ass with the DBU that you wanna low ball that is moot.



This is nonsense from you, smacks of butthurt. I'm going off statements not low balling...

Now go a head and;

1) Point out examples of unreliable narration
2) Explain what was vague about the feats and statements in question?
3) The high end feats for the series come from Beerus, no ABC about it. The guy who's trying to power scale Tyrant here is you

I doubt someone at Beerus' level would receive any less hype from Galactus than Tyrant...

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## The Runner (Jan 1, 2017)

Cooler said:


> This is nonsense from you, smacks of *I’M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME*. I'm going off statements not low balling...
> 
> Now go a head and;
> 
> ...



You can't say (butt)hurt anymore, dude.

A mod seems to be salty about that shit

Reactions: Like 1


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## Cooler (Jan 1, 2017)

Sir Jogga said:


> You can't say (butt)hurt anymore, dude.
> 
> A mod seems to be salty about that shit



Haha I'll have to remember that.


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 1, 2017)

Sir Jogga said:


> You can't say (butt)hurt anymore, dude.
> 
> A mod seems to be salty about that shit


I say asshurt instead.

Fits more in line with my style of cursing by mushing crap together.

If all else fails, make a joke about hemorrhoids.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## The Runner (Jan 1, 2017)

Cooler said:


> Haha I'll have to remember that.


Just say salty, it's basically the same shit anyway

Mods be butt-hurt


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## The Runner (Jan 1, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> I say asshurt instead.
> 
> Fits more in line with my style of cursing by mushing crap together.
> 
> If all else fails, make a joke about *hemorrhoids*.




Or maybe get a picture sayin the word

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Chie (Jan 1, 2017)

I don't get why the b-word is censored. The admins seem fond of using it.


Kira Yamato said:


> Wow, Trump seems to be butt-hurt over the fact the celebrities do want want to perform at his inauguration. What did he expect?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Jan 1, 2017)

Chie said:


> I'd disagree with you on that.



and that would be crazy



Cooler said:


> This is nonsense from you, smacks of I’M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME. I'm going off statements not low balling...



nonsense, what has been the defining traits of dbz that's held it back in vs debates for 17 years, what's been proven and argued over thousands and thousands of threads over nearly a generation is butt hurt nonsense  



Cooler said:


> Now go a head and;
> 
> 1) Point out examples of unreliable narration



"I've amassed enough power to blow the solar system up!"

"The galaxy has been shattered by a Super saiyan"

"i am the strongest fighter in the universe!" "I'm as fast as light!" "that attack traveled at the speed of light!" need I go on?




Cooler said:


> 2) Explain what was vague about the feats and statements in question?



1, statements are not now, nor ever have been taken as superior to feats to the point where they can be accepted when no feats support even the implication that a thing is doable...to the point where word of god has been routinely dismissed

2, so much of DBS its calcs and its interpretations smell of deliberate misinterpretation and inflation either due to closet fanboys, infiltration or more likely the whole "we been unfair towards manga and anime and the new way is to cleanse" that nonsense...to the point where I don't trust any conclusion reached in any thread in the meta any more..sadly. The feats on screen vs what is taken don't mesh at all...




Cooler said:


> 3) The high end feats for the series come from Beerus, no ABC about it. The guy who's trying to power scale Tyrant here is you



uhh no I'm going off his actual feats and back story..I don't powerscale...in fact I'd be very happy if abc logic was banned from debates in general.



Cooler said:


> I doubt someone at Beerus' level would receive any less hype from Galactus than Tyrant...



well, in marvel lore ki/chi is a canon drug to Galactus..so..perhaps you're right..Galactus would be mega thrilled that he could literally snort all Bills ineffectual energy attacks..


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## Worldbreaker (Jan 1, 2017)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> nonsense, what has been the defining traits of dbz that's held it back in vs debates for 17 years, what's been proven and argued over thousands and thousands of threads over nearly a generation is butt hurt nonsense
> "I've amassed enough power to blow the solar system up!"
> "The galaxy has been shattered by a Super saiyan"
> "i am the strongest fighter in the universe!" "I'm as fast as light!" "that attack traveled at the speed of light!" need I go on?
> ...



You live in the past, DBS has taken away the DB stigma of relying only on statements, what happened years ago before Super means nothing when the current canon is giving feats, exposition, lore, and visual interpretation from reliable sources, also most of the statements you mentioned are either non-canon or from bad translations

The way you talk about DBS sounds like you haven't even seen it

Reactions: Like 1


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## Cooler (Jan 2, 2017)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> nonsense, what has been the defining traits of dbz that's held it back in vs debates for 17 years, what's been proven and argued over thousands and thousands of threads over nearly a generation is butt hurt nonsense



Times change, you're still salty and downplaying.



> "I've amassed enough power to blow the solar system up!"
> 
> "The galaxy has been shattered by a Super saiyan"
> 
> "i am the strongest fighter in the universe!" "I'm as fast as light!" "that attack traveled at the speed of light!" need I go on?



I ask for examples and this is all you have? lol. For starters I asked for examples from the _narrator, _which is what you said in your last post. These are for the most part character statements. A few of them are either anime dub lines or from non-canon movies. 

Beerus' ability to destroy the universe has been corroborated by many statements (including from reliable and even more powerful charaters) and feats, as well as statements from the _narrator.
_
Accept it and focus on Tyrant's feat or lack of them.



> 1, statements are not now, nor ever have been taken as superior to feats to the point where they can be accepted when no feats support even the implication that a thing is doable...to the point where word of god has been routinely dismissed



Good thing the feats support the statements in this case then.



> 2, so much of DBS its calcs and its interpretations smell of deliberate misinterpretation and inflation either due to closet fanboys, infiltration or more likely the whole "we been unfair towards manga and anime and the new way is to cleanse" that nonsense...to the point where I don't trust any conclusion reached in any thread in the meta any more..sadly. The feats on screen vs what is taken don't mesh at all...



Nah you're just downplaying. I'm not talking specific calcs here at all. Deliberate misinterpretation would be what you're doing.



> uhh no I'm going off his actual feats and back story..I don't powerscale...in fact I'd be very happy if abc logic was banned from debates in general.



No you're not lol. His backstory and feats are fighting Galactus, that is the definition of powerscaling.



> well, in marvel lore ki/chi is a canon drug to Galactus..so..perhaps you're right..Galactus would be mega thrilled that he could literally snort all Bills ineffectual energy attacks..



Regardless, Tyrant won't be snorting at those attacks. Tyrant is by statements a multi-galaxy level guy, the fact he can absorb energy attacks from Galactus (and Galactus can fluctuate in power) covers the rest. He isn't absorbing Beerus' attacks and Beerus outclasses him in DC and durability. He goes down.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Toaa (Jan 2, 2017)

A thread about odin vs beerus was created.Odin lost.


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## Toaa (Jan 2, 2017)

Cooler said:


> Times change, you're still salty and downplaying.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If he is only multi galaxy beerus kicks him like a ball.


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## Juub (Jan 2, 2017)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> and that would be crazy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


These aren't examples of unreliable narration. These are statements from unreliable characters.




> 1, statements are not now, nor ever have been taken as superior to feats to the point where they can be accepted when no feats support even the implication that a thing is doable...to the point where word of god has been routinely dismissed


And people waited for that. Whis who is fairly reliable said Zeno destroyed 6 universes in a fit of rage and Beerus confirmed Zeno could erase all of creation in an instant. Zeno still wasn't accepted as being multiversal until he actually destroyed 12 universes on screen in an instant.



> 2, so much of DBS its calcs and its interpretations smell of deliberate misinterpretation and inflation either due to closet fanboys, infiltration or more likely the whole "we been unfair towards manga and anime and the new way is to cleanse" that nonsense...to the point where I don't trust any conclusion reached in any thread in the meta any more..sadly. The feats on screen vs what is taken don't mesh at all...


Feel free to disagree with these calculations and counter them. For now you just seem mad that DBS is way more powerful than DBZ is and you're downplaying. All the statements are supported by feats and deliberate calculations are not accepted.






> uhh no I'm going off his actual feats and back story..I don't powerscale...in fact I'd be very happy if abc logic was banned from debates in general.


Which is ironic because I've been following this thread and you have yet to show evidence Tyrant is universal. Apparently he is only multi-galaxy so why is this even a debate?



I mean yeah, fanboys something exaggerate Dragon Ball but don't be like them on the opposite end of the spectrum.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Cooler (Jan 2, 2017)

Toaa said:


> If he is only multi galaxy beerus kicks him like a ball.



Well I say multi galaxy because that fits with him destroying galaxies in his fight with Galactus and Tyrant stating galaxies perished at his whims.


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## Toaa (Jan 2, 2017)

Cooler said:


> Well I say multi galaxy because that fits with him destroying galaxies in his fight with Galactus and Tyrant stating galaxies perished at his whims.


I also remember him baving around that power from some fights i have seen in the past universal requires a hell of a stretching


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## Chie (Jan 2, 2017)

Tyrant's history is rather short. He was created in 1993 and died in 1995 and was featured in 14 comics in total. You only really have statements and scaling to go by (and the scaling is kind of inconsistent) so he's not the best character to be used for VS to begin with.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Jan 2, 2017)

Cooler said:


> Times change, you're still salty and downplaying.



no, they don't not when it comes to DBZ fans they don't, the fact that there are still shitstorms and contentious threads regarding the nature of all these feats is proof enough of that.

simple matter of fact is y'all are an untrustworthy cult like clique that was given an inch on this forum due purely to boredom and we've been paying for it four fucking years now...it's hampered everything from diminishing the general knowledge base of the posters to creating a dependency on third party math done by a minority of users that's created a font of parrots...and it shows.

So you'll forgive me if my default stance is "everything that comes onto the screen from anyone who is an established dbz fan is going to be a lie, exaggeration or hyperbole taken as fact" *history proves this correct.
*
and claiming that Bills can fight a dude who came close to killing Thanos seems to absolutely support that,.



Cooler said:


> I ask for examples and this is all you have? lol. For starters I asked for examples from the _narrator, _which is what you said in your last post. These are for the most part character statements. A few of them are either anime dub lines or from non-canon movies.



One of those was from a narrator, the rest were from unreliable spoken sources within the series in its various incarnations..



Cooler said:


> Beerus' ability to destroy the universe has been corroborated by many statements (including from reliable and even more powerful charaters) and feats, as well as statements from the _narrator._



And the feats in question were nebulous enough to merit a rather long ass debate about it..that culminated with one side drowning the rational side by going "meh you guys just sound old"


Cooler said:


> Accept it and focus on Tyrant's feat or lack of them.



his feats certainly give him the win.


Cooler said:


> Good thing the feats support the statements in this case then.



Jury is still out on that, probably will be for a good while too.



Cooler said:


> Nah you're just downplaying. I'm not talking specific calcs here at all. Deliberate misinterpretation would be what you're doing.



that's cute



Cooler said:


> No you're not lol. His backstory and feats are fighting Galactus, that is the definition of powerscaling.



uhh no, powerscaling would be going "Because he wiped the Floor with Thor tier characters and Thor brawls with people as big as solar systems"- which would be a grotesque way of determining a characters power...by the way.

what I am doing is using the guys back story in conjunction with feats and what he has done suggests to me he's on that tier.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Cooler (Jan 2, 2017)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> no, they don't not when it comes to DBZ fans they don't, the fact that there are still shitstorms and contentious threads regarding the nature of all these feats is proof enough of that.
> 
> simple matter of fact is y'all are an untrustworthy cult like clique that was given an inch on this forum due purely to boredom and we've been paying for it four fucking years now...it's hampered everything from diminishing the general knowledge base of the posters to creating a dependency on third party math done by a minority of users that's created a font of parrots...and it shows.
> 
> ...



The behaviour and posting habits of posters who have long since departed are irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Your argument is self defeating anyway, you don't hold the statements and so called feats from Tyrant to the same standards as those of Beerus. You're a hypocrite. 



> One of those was from a narrator, the rest were from unreliable spoken sources within the series in its various incarnations..



Evidence for why they're all unreliable, especially in conjunction with feats and the narrator as well? At this point it seems like you just don't want them to be true. There's no reason to disagreed all the evidence at hand, for any other series the multitude of statements etc...would be enough. 



> And the feats in question were nebulous enough to merit a rather long ass debate about it..that culminated with one side drowning the rational side by going "meh you guys just sound old"



Nothing really nebulous about them. Especially when they're supporting by the fricking narrator among other people.



> his feats certainly give him the win.



What feats does he have that aren't from fighting other characters with feats of their own?



> Jury is still out on that, probably will be for a good while too.



The jury might be out for downplayers like yourself but for anyone reasonable the standards of evidence have been met and then some.



> that's cute



Nice retort. Up there with you citing non-canon material and forming an argument based on the fact there were some awful DB fan posters on here several years ago 



> uhh no, powerscaling would be going "Because he wiped the Floor with Thor tier characters and Thor brawls with people as big as solar systems"- which would be a grotesque way of determining a characters power...by the way.
> 
> what I am doing is using the guys back story in conjunction with feats and what he has done suggests to me he's on that tier.



Ah the backstory, so tell me why is the information supplied by Thanos acceptable evidence but the word of the narrator in DBS and other characters not? Sounds like a double standard to me. Which isn't surprising considering what your argument has amounted to so far. 

And considering Tyrant's feats are him fighting other characters, it is absolutely power scaling. But keep falling over yourself to prove otherwise.

Basically if we hold Tyrant to the same standards you want to hold Dragon Ball to he's basically a complete mystery.

1) The backstory comes from Thanos, who I deem unreliable just because...
2) Tyrant's statement about destroying galaxies at a whim comes from a notoriously arrogant sob
3) Tyrant has not demonstrated any feats for himself aside from fighting other guys who we do have feats for.

Reactions: Like 5


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## Toaa (Jan 2, 2017)

Now you get that he is hypocrite?He is salty af thinking he is right.No arguments for his opinion even.Meanwhile tyrant has far less feats than beerus and thanos is only a smart cockroach.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Gordo solos (Jan 2, 2017)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> no, they don't not when it comes to DBZ fans they don't, the fact that there are still shitstorms and contentious threads regarding the nature of all these feats is proof enough of that.
> 
> simple matter of fact is y'all are an untrustworthy cult like clique that was given an inch on this forum due purely to boredom and we've been paying for it four fucking years now...it's hampered everything from diminishing the general knowledge base of the posters to creating a dependency on third party math done by a minority of users that's created a font of parrots...and it shows.
> 
> ...


Although I agree with you that the fan base has a lot of wankers, the DBZ wank has died down recently. OPM is pretty much the most wanked series on the Internet atm (to the point where people seriously claim Saitama can one-shot the LT or Kami Tenchi because "he's a gag character")

Super surprisingly has feats to support most of its claims. We even see Zeno blow up an entire Universe on-screen (no hyperbole or anything, he wipes out the entire plane). He even made the DB multiverse smaller after he had a temper tantrum, since there used to be 18 universes, and now there's 12.


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## Toaa (Jan 2, 2017)

Zeno busted all 12 universes.


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## Blocky (Jan 2, 2017)

I would say IWD should watch DBS if he doesn't know much about Zeno, Beerus and all that jazz going on before saying on who wins here.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Jan 2, 2017)

Cooler said:


> The behaviour and posting habits of posters who have long since departed are irrelevant to the discussion at hand.



uhh no that's the behavior and posting habits of literally 90% of anyone who argues for a Dragon Ball series period..you included. 



Cooler said:


> Your argument is self defeating anyway, you don't hold the statements and so called feats from Tyrant to the same standards as those of Beerus. You're a hypocrite.



you know what the biggest difference is? The few statements in Tyrants favor are made by sources that have y'know proven themselves to be somewhat trust worthy and when measured against the guys actual performances make a degree of sense and the disparities are given a very valid explanation.

in other words, this isn't hypocrisy this is just basic reasoning skils.



Cooler said:


> Evidence for why they're all unreliable, especially in conjunction with feats and the narrator as well? At this point it seems like you just don't want them to be true. There's no reason to disagreed all the evidence at hand, for any other series the multitude of statements etc...would be enough.



of course there is...it comes from a series famous for flashy visuals over actual substance, wildly inconsistent at times contradictory showings that has always, always required copious handwaving and jerrymandering to get any where...promoted by a fandom that...a lot of sites have throughout history determined don't even have the right to exist due to how disruptive and dishonest they are.

There is no reason for me to take anything shown in Super or said in Super at face value...or anything said by your side either.




Cooler said:


> Nothing really nebulous about them. Especially when they're supporting by the fricking narrator among other people.



you keep using the narrator so much one wonders if its mantra.


Cooler said:


> What feats does he have that aren't from fighting other characters with feats of their own?



putting Thanos in mortal peril, fending off people with superior hax and arguably speed to Bill and stomping him flat 



Cooler said:


> The jury might be out for downplayers like yourself but for anyone reasonable the standards of evidence have been met and then some.



and now we get to downplaying accusations, the last bastion I've found of the desperate.

Naw, I'm back probably. So I might decide to just tip the apple cart a bit see what falls out




Cooler said:


> Nice retort. Up there with you citing non-canon material and forming an argument based on the fact there were some awful DB fan posters on here several years ago



because that's totally what happened  



Cooler said:


> ]Ah the backstory, so tell me why is the information supplied by Thanos acceptable evidence but the word of the narrator in DBS and other characters not? Sounds like a double standard to me. Which isn't surprising considering what your argument has amounted to so far.



Well for starters, Thanos is a character that unless he's deliberately misleading people tends to be rather informed, most of the shit that comes out of his mouth is absolutely backed up by what happens on panel and when it isn't there's usually a pretty solid reason why, one that makes sense IE Tyrant being weakened or what have you.



Cooler said:


> And considering Tyrant's feats are him fighting other characters, it is absolutely power scaling. But keep falling over yourself to prove otherwise.



no, no it isn't powerscaling at all...it's an actual combat feat that displays his powers and capabilities.

powerscaling is asspulling a level for a character because he either of panel stomped some high tier or is said to be above some monster by other characters...and you just randomly ascribe said character capabilities based on that.




Cooler said:


> Basically if we hold Tyrant to the same standards you want to hold Dragon Ball to he's basically a complete mystery.
> 
> 1) The backstory comes from Thanos, who I deem unreliable just because...
> 2) Tyrant's statement about destroying galaxies at a whim comes from a notoriously arrogant sob
> 3) Tyrant has not demonstrated any feats for himself aside from fighting other guys who we do have feats for.



which the last part totally supports 


Gordo solos said:


> Although I agree with you that the fan base has a lot of wankers, the DBZ wank has died down recently. OPM is pretty much the most wanked series on the Internet atm (to the point where people seriously claim Saitama can one-shot the LT or Kami Tenchi because "he's a gag character")
> 
> *Super surprisingly has feats to support most of its claims.* We even see Zeno blow up an entire Universe on-screen (no hyperbole or anything, he wipes out the entire plane). He even made the DB multiverse smaller after he had a temper tantrum, since there used to be 18 universes, and now there's 12.



I'm not so sure about that, having watched both the recent films and a decent amount of the fights...to me it looks like a lot of the conclusions are based entirely around inferences and assumptions.


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## youresafenow (Jan 2, 2017)

Do you guys enjoy this? Just nitpicking the most insignificant details?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Juub (Jan 2, 2017)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> uhh no that's the behavior and posting habits of literally 90% of anyone who argues for a Dragon Ball series period..you included.


Proof? A fanboy is a fanboy. There are Superman fanboys, DB fanboys, Hulk fanboys etc. Acting like DB fanboys are somehow worse than the average fanboy is plain untrue.



> you know what the biggest difference is? The few statements in Tyrants favor are made by sources that have y'know proven themselves to be somewhat trust worthy and when measured against the guys actual performances make a degree of sense and the disparities are given a very valid explanation.
> 
> in other words, this isn't hypocrisy this is just basic reasoning skils.


 You brought up Cell as if he's somehow relevant. You're still stuck on things from years ago. We've all moved on. Or are Kaioshins and Whis now unreliable? You'd think guys tasked with protecting the whole universe and destroying it would know a thing or two about what it takes to blow it up but nah, they're unreliable because Cell said something in 1994 that wasn't validated by on-screen feats





> of course there is...it comes from a series famous for flashy visuals over actual substance, wildly inconsistent at times contradictory


 So exactly like 99% of fiction? Probably 99.99 if we only talk about comic book characters. Fiction is inconsistent? Really? It's as if...it wasn't bound by reality and the primary objective was to tell a story and not appease to a bunch of geeks. I mean do you really want us to start bringing up Marvel/DC inconsistencies? We'll be here till 2018.



> showings that has always, always required copious handwaving and jerrymandering to get any where...promoted by a fandom that...a lot of sites have throughout history determined don't even have the right to exist due to how disruptive and dishonest they are.


DBZ for the longest time has been stuck to star level and relativistic which is exactly what they showed on screen. Got no idea what you're talking about.



> There is no reason for me to take anything shown in Super or said in Super at face value...or anything said by your side either.


Nice fallacy there.





> Naw, I'm back probably. So I might decide to just tip the apple cart a bit see what falls out


Go watch Super. You got legitimate feats backed up by reliable characters. Cell isn't part of it.




> no, no it isn't powerscaling at all...it's an actual combat feat that displays his powers and capabilities.


It absolutely is powerscaling. You're scaling Tyrant's DC to Galactus because Tyrant fought him and didn't get demolished. Tyrant has no said feat but Galactus does and you're equating Tyrant to said feats. That is a textbook definition of powerscaling. Same way Reccoome is considered planet level by powerscaling. He's never destroyed a planet but he beat up people who showed enough power to do so or are considered planet level.



> powerscaling is asspulling a level for a character because he either of panel stomped some high tier or is said to be above some monster by other characters...and you just randomly ascribe said character capabilities based on that.


Powerscaling isn't asspuling. Beerus is considered universe level based on his clash with Goku. Whis is considered Universe+ because he is stronger than Beerus. He hasn't actually done anything. Therefore Whis is Universe+ via powerscaling.





> I'm not so sure about that, having watched both the recent films and a decent amount of the fights...to me it looks like a lot of the conclusions are based entirely around inferences and assumptions.


There's your problem. In the film they are merely solar system level. In Super they are casual universe level. Just their punches vaporized planets from light years away and it was said by very reliable people their clash would end the universe. It was also said Beerus fighting with Champa would destroy both universe 6 and 7. It wasn't confirmed by some raving lunatic with a god complex either so you can't just dismiss it.

Reactions: Like 6


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## Cooler (Jan 3, 2017)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> uhh no that's the behavior and posting habits of literally 90% of anyone who argues for a Dragon Ball series period..you included.



Guilt by association then? The only one with questionable behaviour in this is you. But don't worry I won't hold it against all Marvel fans like you do.





> you know what the biggest difference is? The few statements in Tyrants favor are made by sources that have y'know proven themselves to be somewhat trust worthy and when measured against the guys actual performances make a degree of sense and the disparities are given a very valid explanation.
> 
> in other words, this isn't hypocrisy this is just basic reasoning skils.



It's double standards. Thanos is reliable because you think he is. The statements on Beerus should be taken just as seriously

1) Whis is Beerus' mentor and more powerful than he is
2) Whis is aware of a being (Zeno) who has destroyed 6 universes, he should have a degree of awareness about Beerus' relative power
3) Two Gods of destruction fighting is taboo because the collatoral would be universe destruction, it's a rule passed down from a hierachy which includes someone who has busted at least 6 universes at once.
4) The narrator is not a character and is unlikely to be fallible

There is no reason to doubt these sources and accept Thanos. And talking of actual performance the fight from a vastly supressed Beerus was physically threatening to destroy the universe. It can't get more clear cut.





> of course there is...it comes from a series famous for flashy visuals over actual substance, wildly inconsistent at times contradictory showings that has always, always required copious handwaving and jerrymandering to get any where...promoted by a fandom that...a lot of sites have throughout history determined don't even have the right to exist due to how disruptive and dishonest they are.
> 
> There is no reason for me to take anything shown in Super or said in Super at face value...or anything said by your side either.



Because Marvel has no inconsistent showings right? You're just a mess of contradictions and double standards right now.



> you keep using the narrator so much one wonders if its mantra.



It bears repeating considering you've not been able to discredit it without stripping away anything meaningful relating to Tyrant.




> putting Thanos in mortal peril, fending off people with superior hax and arguably speed to Bill and stomping him flat



Which is all power scaling. If you don't even understand basics such as this maybe you should take a break...



> and now we get to downplaying accusations, the last bastion I've found of the desperate.
> 
> Naw, I'm back probably. So I might decide to just tip the apple cart a bit see what falls out



Not an accusation but a fact. You don't even see your hypocrisy. It's just sad at this point.




> because that's totally what happened



Which is irrelevant now DBS is out. Get with the times you dinosaur lol.



> Well for starters, Thanos is a character that unless he's deliberately misleading people tends to be rather informed, most of the shit that comes out of his mouth is absolutely backed up by what happens on panel and when it isn't there's usually a pretty solid reason why, one that makes sense IE Tyrant being weakened or what have you.



Why wouldn't Whis be well informed as Beerus's mentor? I guess the rule about Gods of Destruction not being allowed to fight because it could destroy the universe is misinformed as well. At the risk of repeating my mantra there's no reason for the narrator to be misinformed either...




> no, no it isn't powerscaling at all...it's an actual combat feat that displays his powers and capabilities.
> 
> powerscaling is asspulling a level for a character because he either of panel stomped some high tier or is said to be above some monster by other characters...and you just randomly ascribe said character capabilities based on that.



Both of those are powerscaling. This is from the OBD wiki...

"Powerscaling refers to a method of inductive reasoning used to determine the strength of various fictional characters/entities. This method can assign levels of power to a character who has demonstrated few, or even no actual Feats. Powerscaling is based on heirarchical logic, narrative statements, and word - of - mouth."

Which is exactly what you're doing...



> I'm not so sure about that, having watched both the recent films and a decent amount of the fights...to me it looks like a lot of the conclusions are based entirely around inferences and assumptions.



You clearly didn't watch it very closely...

No less than 13/14 references to universal destruction are below, but I'm sure it's all unreliable even in conjecture with feats...



Beerus is universal. The last one is just to give a little context that a guy like Whis should know what he's talking about...

Reactions: Agree 9 | Winner 3


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## SkylineGTR (Jan 3, 2017)

Somebody's got quite the hate boner for dragon ball

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Toaa (Jan 3, 2017)

You think he has a hate boner?His whole argument is centered around untrustworthy dragonball and trustworthy marvel.Thats basically it.This guy still thinks super doesnt exist.On this match beerus would mop the floor with tyrant.They were threatening the universe in the first episodes as Cooler already posted.


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Jan 3, 2017)

Does the win go to Beerus?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## Blαck (Jan 3, 2017)

Dreams of Tommorow said:


> Does the win go to Beerus?


Pretty much, Tyrant is running on hype and I only have one plausible way for him to win which would require his ship so it aint happening. Without sufficient hax like the other heralds he doesn't quite stack up. He has the speed and even if we give him universaltine leeway we lack enough info to have any solid claims.


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## Claudio Swiss (Jan 3, 2017)

SkylineGTR said:


> Somebody's got quite the hate boner for dragon ball


Honestly I wouldn't look it as a hate boner for the Series but the fans mainly.
Watchdog debated in a time where dragon ball didn't have the feats to back it up against skyfather level characters and beyond like in super hell it was during the time the verse would be stomped by the average Herald.
Instead He like mike dealt with ztards who during his time we're far more obnoxious and annoying and stubborn compared to now which shaped his bias  against the series.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Claudio Swiss (Jan 3, 2017)

Cooler said:


> Guilt by association then? The only one with questionable behaviour in this is you. But don't worry I won't hold it against all Marvel fans like you do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This shit right here is a good reference to show to anyone asking about universal db very my good man.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 3, 2017)

Claudio Swiss said:


> Honestly I wouldn't look it as a hate boner for the Series but the fans mainly.
> Watchdog debated in a time where dragon ball didn't have the feats to back it up against skyfather level characters and beyond like in super hell it was during the time the verse would be stomped by the average Herald.
> Instead He like mike dealt with ztards who during his time we're far more obnoxious and annoying and stubborn compared to now which shaped his bias  against the series.


They're still around but idiots like crezy are mocked and ridiculed for good reasons. The "Mexican language" crap never stops being funny to me. I don't like the powerthirst that gets some fans crazy but that's more a pet peeve of mine than anything else really.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Claudio Swiss (Jan 4, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> They're still around but idiots like crezy are mocked and ridiculed for good reasons. The "Mexican language" crap never stops being funny to me. I don't like the powerthirst that gets some fans crazy but that's more a pet peeve of mine than anything else really.


Well that bound to happen with any series that's popular.
Toriko,Opm and alot others attract fuckers who more or less get off on feats and shit. anytime a series did some big boy level feat fans are gonna put him against guys they have no business facing.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Gordo solos (Jan 4, 2017)

Claudio Swiss said:


> Well that bound to happen with any series that's popular.
> Toriko,Opm and alot others attract fuckers who more or less get off on feats and shit. anytime a series did some big boy level feat fans are gonna put him against *guys they have no business facing*.


I remember seeing idiots think Acacia's Disciples could one-shot Thanos with their "superior hax" and that Toriko would wreck the Surfer

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 4, 2017)

Claudio Swiss said:


> Well that bound to happen with any series that's popular.
> Toriko,Opm and alot others attract fuckers who more or less get off on feats and shit. anytime a series did some big boy level feat fans are gonna put him against guys they have no business facing.


You're right about that but I dunno what it is about Dragon Ball powerthirst that annoys me a little more.

It might be just that I, like Mike and IWD, have debated Ztards for so long that the powerthirst is extra annoying for no real substantive reason other than past experiences.

Or I could be pondering over nothing, that's also a possibility.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Claudio Swiss (Jan 4, 2017)

Gordo solos said:


> I remember seeing idiots think Acacia's Disciples could one-shot Thanos with their "superior hax" and that Toriko would wreck the Surfer


And I seen them put these guys against hit, black, etc. fanboys can make you really despise the show and downplay the series because of the disdain you have for them.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Claudio Swiss (Jan 4, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> You're right about that but I dunno what it is about Dragon Ball powerthirst that annoys me a little more.
> 
> It might be just that I, like Mike and IWD, have debated Ztards for so long that the powerthirst is extra annoying for no real substantive reason other than past experiences.


Pretty much that you guys dealt with ztards who were much more obnoxious,ruthless and grade A fucking annoying. While you seem alright, Mike and Watchdog had deal with the phenomenal brigade who were ztards on steroids which due to the constance experience with them probably cause both to have bias against the series and mass disdain for the fanbase.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 4, 2017)

Claudio Swiss said:


> Pretty much that you guys dealt with ztards who were much more obnoxious,ruthless and grade A fucking annoying. While you seem alright, Mike and Watchdog had deal with the phenomenal brigade who were ztards on steroids which due to the constance experience with them probably cause both to have bias against the series and mass disdain for the fanbase.


Oh I've dealt with some pretty fucking scummy Ztards myself but the worst I got were death threats, spam and e-stalking. The stuff Mike and IWD put up with make that look really fucking mellow by comparison.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Clutch (Jan 4, 2017)

SkylineGTR said:


> Somebody's got quite the hate boner for dragon ball



Thinking the same thing. The lack of research on his part is unacceptable. He's holding too much hate to his chest. No excuses for that.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 4, 2017)

ColumbianDrugLord said:


> Thinking the same thing. The lack of research on his part is unacceptable. He's holding too much hate to his chest. No excuses for that.


I'm not sure if you're one to talk about that. Considering you started the GER shit in the DB feats thread and revenge negged me, you calling out IWD for lack of research (he's said that he's watched the movies and some of the fights in Super and that he will get around to watching the entire series) isn't something you should flaunt around when you know little to nothing about JJBA.

_Hypocrisy be thy name._

Reactions: Like 3 | Dislike 1


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## Clutch (Jan 4, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> I'm not sure if you're one to talk about that. Considering you started the GER shit in the DB feats thread and revenge negged me, you calling out IWD for lack of research (he's said that he's watched the movies and some of the fights in Super and that he will get around to watching the entire series) isn't something you should flaunt around when you know little to nothing about JJBA.
> 
> _Hypocrisy be thy name._


You have me confused with someone else.
1. I never brought up GER to dispute it. Just to understand the consensus on how haxes were treated in the meta. Your bias has altered your view on my intent because Gurren Lagann, Tenchi, and Bastard, and Marvel were all brought up in that discussion, as well. Why you singled out Jojo illustrates the issue your having right now.
2. I negged everyone who repeatedly went off topic. It had gotten insanely ridiculous in that thread.
3. I never claimed to be a source of knowledge of JJBA, that's why you've never seen me take sides in a debate involving it. Unlike You, IWD, and the other _traumatized  _members you mentioned, I will not involve myself in a debate where I am ignorant or so emotionally involved that I can't maintain a clear head and unbias train of thought. There is no need for that, this is all just fiction.
So I say again, you have me confused with someone else. Whatever ill feelings you have for me or the member you have mistaken me for, you need to let it go.

_Peace be with you, brother._

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 2


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## Worldbreaker (Jan 4, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> You're right about that but I dunno what it is about Dragon Ball powerthirst that annoys me a little more.
> *
> It might be just that I, like Mike and IWD, have debated Ztards for so long that the powerthirst is extra annoying for no real substantive reason other than past experiences.*
> 
> Or I could be pondering over nothing, that's also a possibility.



No offense but that happened a long ass time ago, we are basically debating a new series at this point


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 4, 2017)

ColumbianDrugLord said:


> You have me confused with someone else.
> 1. I never brought up GER to dispute it. Just to understand the consensus on how haxes were treated in the meta.
> 2. I negged everyone who repeatedly went off topic. It had gotten insanely ridiculous in that thread.
> 3. I never claimed to be a source of knowledge of JJBA, that's why you've never seen me take sides in a debate involving it. Unlike You, IWD, and the other _traumatized  _members you mentioned, I will not involve myself in a debate where I am ignorant or so emotionally involved that I can't maintain a clear head and unbias train of thought. There is no need for that, this is all just fiction.
> ...


1. Yeah bullshit you did that. Explain this to me then.


ColumbianDrugLord said:


> So wait, Goku has to face the entire Super Powers Wiki to prove DB characters have a general resistance to hax used by significantly weaker characters, but GER does not have to face more situations outside of  what few has been shown to prove it's power counters 90% of fiction? That doesn't sound very fair.
> 
> Sounds like the rules of the OBD are shifted to specificly help certain types of characters. Ki is a specific power that DB characters have, doesn't seem fair to ignore the advantages of it if you're not going to do the same for other franchises.
> 
> To mitigate the bias the rules create, treat ki like you would a hax......or a Stand. Ki has the hax of canceling out hax. If Goku is universal+, unless the opponent is universal+ in raw power, then the hax wont work; since that is exactly how ki works.


You said this out of spite towards GER. Your intent here is obvious.
2. Riiiiiiiight. Explain then why I negged you for that post for wanking and then a day later, you neg me for rebuffing crezy's crap. Sounds like a revenge neg to me and you likely agreeing with crezy.
3. I'm not debating shit here. Just recounting what it has been like for some of us here. I don't have stakes in the matter to be blunt. However that won't stop me from calling out hypocrisy when I see it.

Reactions: Like 2 | Dislike 1


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## NostalgiaFan (Jan 4, 2017)

ColumbianDrugLord said:


> You have me confused with someone else.
> 1. I never brought up GER to dispute it. Just to understand the consensus on how haxes were treated in the meta.
> 2. I negged everyone who repeatedly went off topic. It had gotten insanely ridiculous in that thread.
> 3. I never claimed to be a source of knowledge of JJBA, that's why you've never seen me take sides in a debate involving it. Unlike You, IWD, and the other _traumatized  _members you mentioned, I will not involve myself in a debate where I am ignorant or so emotionally involved that I can't maintain a clear head and unbias train of thought. There is no need for that, this is all just fiction.
> ...


This is some of the most pretentious bit of denial I have seen in the OBD.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Clutch (Jan 4, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> 1. Yeah bullshit you did that. Explain this to me then.
> 
> You said this out of spite towards GER. Your intent here is obvious.
> 2. Riiiiiiiight. Explain then why I negged you for that post for wanking and then a day later, you neg me for rebuffing crezy's crap. Sounds like a revenge neg to me and you likely agreeing with crezy.
> 3. I'm not debating shit here. Just recounting what it has been like for some of us here. I don't have stakes in the matter to be blunt. However that won't stop me from calling out hypocrisy when I see it.


1. Where did I dispute GER's abilities in that post? Never did I claim he did or didn't do anything. I brought it up because it appeared to be a clear double standard and some actually agreed and I wanted it to be explained. I never said GER wasn't capable of anything, we were having a discussion about the nature of hax treatment in the OBD. Are you seriously that hurt about this? Pull yourself together.
2. I seriously didn't know you even negged me. I negged creizy and 2 other guys, too. I can't believe you're still thinking about something so trivial.
3. Sure...

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 4, 2017)

ColumbianDrugLord said:


> 1. Where did I dispute GER's abilities in that post? Never did I claim he did or didn't do anything. I brought it up because it was clear double standard and I wanted it to be explained. Are you seriously that hurt about this? Pull yourself together.
> 2. I seriously didn't know you even negged me. I negged creizy and 2 other guys, too. I can't believe you're still thinking about something so trivial.
> 3. Sure...


1. It's clear here with your wording. "Does DB have to go through the entire powerlisting wiki to beat GER?" Paraphrasing but that is basically what you said. You weren't asking what GER could do, your choice of words was that GER was put on a podestal and poor DBS wasn't being respected. Get out with that horseshit. You don't understand GER's powers and abilities and you didn't make an attempt to do so. You're the one with egg on your face here.
2. Uh huh. Believable coming from you.
3. Have I once disputed anything here about DBS? Really, find a post of me saying anything against DBS. You'll be hard pressed to find that.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Clutch (Jan 4, 2017)

1. You misunderstand, my entire post was to illustrate the disparity of scrutiny in hax vs hax ristence. That's it, I just used GER as an example because he was popular at the time. It could have been anyone, you're too defensive about JJBA.

2. _"Coming form me"? _I never did anything to you. Before this, I don't think I've ever spoken to you before.

3. I never said you disputed anything about DBS. I never said anything about you? *YOU *said, you have _old war stories_ with _"Ztards" _which causes a negative overreaction when debating them.* I said *if I felt that scarred about something like that, I wouldn't even engage in conversations, let alone debates with them. That's it.

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## Perpetrator Rex (Jan 4, 2017)

Here we go again, people get emotional and shit gets way off topic. This was a thread about *Beerus vs Tyrant *and it turned into an airing of grievances about some shit that happened a week ago in another thread, in another section. Smgdh

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2 | Dislike 2


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 4, 2017)

ColumbianDrugLord said:


> 1. You misunderstand, my entire post was to illustrate the disparity of scrutiny in hax vs hax ristence. That's it, I just used GER as an example because he was popular at the time. It could have been anyone, you're too defensive about JJBA.
> 
> 2. _"Coming form me"? _I never did anything to you. Before this, I don't think I've ever spoken to you before.
> 
> 3. I never said you disputed anything about DBS. I never said anything about you? *YOU *said, you have _old war stories_ with _"Ztards" _which causes a negative overreaction when debating them.* I said *if I felt that scarred about something like that, I wouldn't even engage in conversations, let alone debates with them. That's it.


1. Pretty sure that's not the case. That quote is up for anyone to see. You did not ask anyone what GER can do, you concocted a conspiracy in your head that the OBD favors GER over DBS. You even say as much in that quote.
2. It doesn't really matter. I've seen how you act and how you're acting now isn't helping you in the slightest.
3. Uh, "negative overreaction?" I said it was a pet peeve that annoys me a bit more than other series and conceding that it may be irrational. How is admitting that in anyway "negative overreaction?"


Perpetrator Rex said:


> Here we go again, people get emotional and shit gets way off topic. This was a thread about *Beerus vs Tyrant *and it turned into an airing of grievances about some shit that happened a week ago in another thread, in another section. Smgdh


Don't claim moral superiority here. You also revenge negged me on an unrelated post that I made about Spergbattles and you're liking all of CBL's posts.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Clutch (Jan 4, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> snip




But okay, dude. Whatever.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Blαck (Jan 4, 2017)

@Nighty the Mighty 

Yeah, guess it's a done deal.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Toaa (Jan 4, 2017)

Any chance threads will somehow not get off topic?None probably.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Cooler (Jan 4, 2017)

Toaa said:


> Any chance threads will somehow not get off topic?None probably.



Topic should be finished already tbh.


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## Toaa (Jan 4, 2017)

Cooler said:


> Topic should be finished already tbh.


Then i guess its timw for the lock.


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## trance (Jan 4, 2017)

So, concensus is Beerus wins I'm presuming?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Toaa (Jan 4, 2017)

kyouko said:


> So, concensus is Beerus wins I'm presuming?


Yeah thats the coonsesus

Reactions: Like 1


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 4, 2017)

topic feels pretty exhausted to me.


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