# Goku vs Gundam....?



## hackerman98 (Nov 27, 2005)

Rili...this is juz a stupid idea....i think i'll stop after this one...lol 
Which is stronger?
Any character from DB series vs any Mobile suits from Gundam series...
Cud Goku's kamehameha be enuf to destroy a whole gundam?
Or one swoop of the gundam's sword wud be enuf to toast goku into ashes??:S


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## Luciferxxxxx (Nov 27, 2005)

...
Gundam kill in one-hit to Goku...


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## Quoll (Nov 27, 2005)

Goku. He's a lot faster than a Gundam.


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## Bullet (Nov 27, 2005)

Shinning or Burning Gundam (from G Gundam) whould beat any incarnation of Goku IMO and Some Gundams from Mobile suit Gundam Seed could take on the DBZ characters to. The Gundams have a big advantage from both of the Gundam series I just pick. With there large size and the speed, it shouldn't take long for them to win.


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## Quoll (Nov 27, 2005)

Bullet said:
			
		

> Shinning or Burning Gundam (from G Gundam) whould beat any incarnation of Goku IMO and Some Gundams from Mobile suit Gundam Seed could take on the DBZ characters to. The Gundams have a big advantage from both of the Gundam series I just pick. With there large size and the speed, it shouldn't take long for them to win.



The Gundams are very powerful but I don't see them being able to track a small target like Goku at full speed.


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## Bullet (Nov 27, 2005)

Quoll said:
			
		

> The Gundams are very powerful but I don't see them being able to track a small target like Goku at full speed.



If you've watched G Gundam and Seed, there Gundams were very fasts (they fought at high speeds, especially in G Gundam) , I don't see it being very hard to keep up with the DBZ characters; plus they have radars to spot them.


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## hackerman98 (Nov 27, 2005)

If anything else fails...goku wud juz teleport away to the next galaxy...lol
But i dun think a kamehameha which cud destroy a whole planet are enuf to leave a mark on a gundam though....


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## Bullet (Nov 27, 2005)

hackerman98 said:
			
		

> If anything else fails...goku wud juz teleport away to the next galaxy...lol
> But i dun think a kamehameha which cud destroy a whole planet are enuf to leave a mark on a gundam though....



I disagree, if Goku charge up a fully powered Kamehameha wave in ssj2 or 3, he'll do some damage towards Shinning or Burnning Gundam if they aren't in Super or Hyper mode for sure. But it's going to be very difficult to pull off an attack against Gundams that are very fast in mid-air and have the ability to fly in space.


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## hackerman98 (Nov 27, 2005)

Maybe...but what if the kamehameha waves is directed towards the Wing Zero....i think gundanium alloy are strong strong enuf to withstands such a blow,they had to be sent to the sun and yet still can't be destroyed...

But then again...Goku does have the ability to go golden oosaru and it's almost the same size as the gundams,rite?


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## Quoll (Nov 27, 2005)

hackerman98 said:
			
		

> Maybe...but what if the kamehameha waves is directed towards the Wing Zero....i think gundanium alloy are strong strong enuf to withstands such a blow,they had to be sent to the sun and yet still can't be destroyed...
> 
> But then again...Goku does have the ability to go golden oosaru and it's almost the same size as the gundams,rite?



Should be about the same size, but I think his chances in humanoid form are better.


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## Deleted member 15401 (Nov 27, 2005)

hmm, depends..

strength wise i think gundam would take it, but the more important factor would be, in an area as vast as space, would they even be able to catch up with goku while hes flying around them shooting beams and shit?

that is, on the condition that in this battle goku can survive in space.. otherwise it'd be kind of one sided


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## Bullet (Nov 27, 2005)

hjkou said:
			
		

> hmm, depends..
> 
> strength wise i think gundam would take it, but the more important factor would be, in an area as vast as space, would they even be able to catch up with goku while hes flying around them shooting beams and shit?
> 
> that is, on the condition that in this battle goku can survive in space.. otherwise it'd be kind of one sided



Goku can't survive in space, but if he was able to, I think a Gundam will still be fast enough in mid-air to fight (even more in space) and avoid energy blasts by dodging or deflecting them with there swords ( Shinning or Burnning Gundam) or shields (almost all Gundams are equiped with a shield) countering with there long range wepons or techniques.


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## Quoll (Nov 27, 2005)

Bullet said:
			
		

> Goku can't survive in space, but if he was able to, I think a Gundam will still be fast enough in mid-air to fight (even more in space) and avoid energy blasts by dodging or deflecting them with there swords ( Shinning or Burnning Gundam) or shields (almost all Gundams are equiped with a shield) countering with there long range wepons or techniques.



Not so sure about the last part. Ki and most other forms of "spirit energy" don't seem to follow the laws of physics so its a mebbe.


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## Bullet (Nov 27, 2005)

Quoll said:
			
		

> Not so sure about the last part. Ki and most other forms of "spirit energy" don't seem to follow the laws of physics so its a mebbe.



It seems the same to me. They destroy moutains and nuke citys with there energy blasts, Gundams has taken both and has done the same thing with there weapons.A Gundam's shield has taken alot of powerful energy blasts (laser cannons/beams and the rest), I'm sure the DBZ characters energy blasts won't be able to do alot of harm unless they are constantly blocking blasts with there shields. Even if they fire "KI" blasts, Gundam pilots are very good at dodging energy blasts (these people fight large groups of Gundam pilots and ships all the time that are shooting laser beams in space), so it won't be easy to it them.  When they want to destroy a planet (DBZ/GT characters), they charge up there blasts and aim it towards the planet causing it to penetrate through. Unfortunately, Gundams bodys aren't that easy to penetrate through like the planet. 

The Gundams are well above class 100, which is enough to KOed ssj2 or 3 with one hit from a Gundam; And to add with that a Gundam is packing a laser sword (this should be a one hit kill if connected for sure) and long range weapons with the ability to fly; some Gundam's depending on which anime, have special abilities like G Gundam or Gundam Wing. Goku even at his strongest tranformation won't even be able to do damage to a Gundam with physical attacks, so his only option whould be to throw "Chi" (or KI) blasts.


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## uchiSINX (Dec 18, 2005)

i think that the fight would be pretty close. but it would probubuly be goku winning because he is smaller. remember how hard it was for buu to stop him when he was a jawbreaker ~wierd scene~ and he is the strongest being in the universe. but if a gundam made a right move at the perfect time i think that goku would be cut in half <- probubly a g gundam lik domon's best gundam


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## ~Kaio-Cam~ (Dec 18, 2005)

heh, Goku of course.... Goku can do more damage to the Earth's surface than any gundam can. Now Goku is fast...i know for sure faster than any Gundam i've ever seen. Goku will be a small target for a GUndam to hit i believe.... Goku has the advantage . He can travel around the world in 5 mins if he wanted to. A Gundam... nah. So Goku > Gundam. We all know he can rip apart metal like paper. 

Now if Goku were to get by one of those Nuclear Beams from Gundam Seed.. that's a different story. Goku is tough, but i dont think many living things, if any,  could survive such power. I mean normal people exploded like rain drops.


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## Bullet (Dec 18, 2005)

> Post by uchiSINX
> 
> i think that the fight would be pretty close. but it would probubuly be goku winning because he is smaller. remember how hard it was for buu to stop him when he was a jawbreaker ~wierd scene~ and he is the strongest being in the universe. but if a gundam made a right move at the perfect time i think that goku would be cut in half <- probubly a g gundam lik domon's best gundam



But Gundam's being bigger, stronger, more durable, have the ability to fight in space and being able to move fast gives them a huge advatage. The Gundam pilots are very skilled, they're use to hitting small targets.




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## Zoro - inactive (Dec 18, 2005)

Gundans with ease.


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## Kibamaru (Dec 18, 2005)

Gundams, I'd say if the latest Gundams team up, they pwn Goku easily. StrikeFreedom, InfiniteJustice and Destiny Gundams IMO ^^

(And if Legend Gundam is still up and running, he too =P)


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## Luckey (Dec 18, 2005)

Goku goes ssj3 then flies at 80% lightspeed and increases his mass to over 100000000 and crushes through the place where the pilot is then he kills him.


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## Inactive Yumichika (Dec 18, 2005)

Goku would be too fast to hit from a gundam blast even without supersaiyan, supposing the could lock onto something as small as goku.
He could just dodge it easily, and punch through the cockpit to kill the pilot, though he'd probably let the guy off and leave before it happened...


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## Cytokinesis (Dec 18, 2005)

Can a Gundam destroy a world?  No

Can Goku destroy a world?  Yes

Can a Gundam survive a world destroying blast?  Not from what I have seen.

Can Goku survive a world destroying blast?  Yes


I think that says the answer right there.


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## Id (Dec 18, 2005)

Cytokinesis said:
			
		

> Can a Gundam destroy a world?  No
> 
> Can Goku destroy a world?  Yes
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Yes A Gundam can destroy a World.

Yes Thier are a few that have a shield that can hold out.

Gundam Syphalis can destroy a world with that big ass bazuka.

And 

His other gundam (forgot the name)
Was beaten only cus it ran out of energy. Other wise the shields can hold out.


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## Bullet (Dec 18, 2005)

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## Luckey (Dec 18, 2005)

Id said:
			
		

> Yes A Gundam can destroy a World.
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> Yes Thier are a few that have a shield that can hold out.
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Majin buu was feared to destroy the entire galaxy when he was fightin z fighters, and they said he was feared to kill everyone in whole universe.

Goku stood up a chance in ssj3.


I'll let you decide who wins.


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## Bullet (Dec 18, 2005)

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## Cytokinesis (Dec 18, 2005)

No a Gundam will only win if it is at most Goku at the start of the series.  Else Goku would entirely own the Gundam so badly it isn't a joke.  Gundams use bullets, hmm lets see goku doesn't even flinch when hundreds of bullets slam him in the face.  Gundams use energy weapons, big freaking deal so do all of Dragonball Z's villains and might I add energy weapons that are MUCH MUCH MUCH more powerful then any single Gundam's blast.



Now if you wanted to say a fully charged Genesis shot against Goku I would say the Genesis shot would win assuming Goku can't dodge it, and not because of the power of the shot, but because of the radiation.  And that is the only way anything in the Gundam universe could kill a fully powered Goku.


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## pnoypridz (Dec 18, 2005)

Cytokinesis said:
			
		

> No a Gundam will only win if it is at most Goku at the start of the series.  Else Goku would entirely own the Gundam so badly it isn't a joke.  Gundams use bullets, hmm lets see goku doesn't even flinch when hundreds of bullets slam him in the face.  Gundams use energy weapons, big freaking deal so do all of Dragonball Z's villains and might I add energy weapons that are MUCH MUCH MUCH more powerful then any single Gundam's blast.
> 
> 
> 
> Now if you wanted to say a fully charged Genesis shot against Goku I would say the Genesis shot would win assuming Goku can't dodge it, and not because of the power of the shot, but because of the radiation.  And that is the only way anything in the Gundam universe could kill a fully powered Goku.



yea i agree


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## Kira Yamato (Dec 18, 2005)

Can a Gundam destroy a world?  No

*Even if a Gundam could destroy a world...Goku has dealt with enemies with enough power to destroy the universe!. I'm sorry but no Gundam will be that much of a threat....since I'm guessing teleporting is not a feature that any Gundam possesses....*

Can Goku destroy a world?  Yes
*Yeah, but he's much more stronger, than that, it's not even worth mentioning at his power level >_>*


Can a Gundam survive a world destroying blast?  Not from what I have seen.
*I seriously doubt it...because all Gundams have their limitations...and the pilots inside are even more vulnerable. *


Can Goku survive a world destroying blast?  Yes

*Instant Transmission...
*


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## Luckey (Dec 18, 2005)

Bullet said:
			
		

> > What does that have to do with this fight?
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> It has to do with the fact that he has fought people that threatened the universe itself...


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## Id (Dec 18, 2005)

Devil/Dark Gundam can only be killed by the power of love.................
Plus who's to say that any of the DBZ cant get infected by the virus shit they get thier mind cotrolled half the time and didnt Goku suffer from a viral heart desises. So um yeah 

Gundam FTW.


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## Bullet (Dec 18, 2005)

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## Bullet (Dec 18, 2005)

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## Luckey (Dec 18, 2005)

Gundamn ftw then


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## Bullet (Dec 18, 2005)

Luckey said:
			
		

> Gundamn ftw then




Huh?


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## Kira Yamato (Dec 18, 2005)

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## Bullet (Dec 18, 2005)

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## Kira Yamato (Dec 18, 2005)

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## Bullet (Dec 18, 2005)

Kira Yamato said:
			
		

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## Kira Yamato (Dec 18, 2005)

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## Bullet (Dec 18, 2005)

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## Kira Yamato (Dec 18, 2005)

> Goku even at his highest transformation (ssj3) isn't durable enough to take what a Gundam will throwing at him.





You mistake me when I say peak, I meant his strongest form...>_> Goku has repelled attacks that can destroy entire planets...Last three Gundam series, I watched I haven't seen many planets destroyed...other than masses of lands destroyed by mass nuclear weapons (i.e. Genesis) 



> How does Goku fare better? I've seen Gundams not being fased by class 100+ attacks and more. Goku is still able get put down by force lesser than a Gundam.



And yet, I haven't seen a Gundam in any series that has gone without without being defeated at least once...And with these lesser forces, can you be a bit more specific...because in terms of power levels, you could be underestimated these so-called lesser forces...and if you base it on that assumption, then the underlying basis for that argument is unstable...





> I'm still waiting for you to give me something that would put Goku over a Gundam.



SSJ4 Goku for example wouldn't have a problem taking out a Gundam like say Freedom, frankly Goku is faster and packs more power...maybe if you gave me a more speicifc gundam then maybe I'd reconsider.

Edit: no problem...it's a debate/discussion...nothing personal at all xD


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## pnoypridz (Dec 18, 2005)

btw this might be offtopic but which gundam do u guys think is the strongest


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## Bullet (Dec 18, 2005)

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## Encronian (Dec 19, 2005)

i think this simple fact is quite important 

gundams= can breath and suvive in space

Goku= can not breath and survive in space

therefore just grab him and blast out into space physics and physiology does the rest


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## Kira Yamato (Dec 19, 2005)

> Goku has never deflected a planet destroying blast before though. The DBZ characters can blow up planets, but it's not by blowing it up in one blasts (as soon as the energy blasts touches the planet), so I don't consider there blasts to be planet destroying, instead they just force there energy blasts through the planet (once that happens, the planet is going to be destroyed either way because of it been badly damaged). Goku even in his higher transformation still gets badly hurt by moutain/city destroy blasts (not planet destroying, as in, throwing a blasts that destroy planets as soon as it touches anything).



Well, that can be argued with the weapons used in Gundam series, after all there isn't a particular weapon that incinerates an entire planet, in fact I don't believe that has happened in any of the series O_O . And there have been instances where Z-fighters have commented if the particular attack had hit it would have destroyed the planet. And what about Frieza's destruction of Planet Vegeta, or is that the argument you were mentioning above? 



> Here's ssj2 Gohan getting badly injured by a energy blast thrown by Cell (which isn't planet destroying either).
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Well, I don't remember Cell's Blasts being able to destroy the planet...unless you're talking about the final confrontation between Cell and SSJ2 gohan? And in that instance Cell was aiming for a weakened Vegeta and Gohan left him self vulnerable to protect him and theoritically if he was hurt by that blast he shouldn't have had enough energy to repel Cells much, much larger attack, with him at supposedly weakened state....yeah, kinda inconsistent, but the difference in that inconsistency can make a huge difference, because I always refer to there strongest moments...





> SSJ4 Goku is weaker than the DBZ version. He struggled to push a building back in place at ssj4 and had trouble lifting people that was on a falling rock. So he stands less of a chance.



Well, although it's debateable SSJ4 goku is supposedly stronger than SSJ3 Goku, because it was shown that SSJ3 goku couldn't handle Bebi-Vegeta. Not to mention Goku was in his chibi form which was draining his energy, and even then he was stronger than his SSJ3 form.


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## Bullet (Dec 19, 2005)

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## Deleted member 15401 (Dec 19, 2005)

Bullet said:
			
		

> Cyborg Freeza getting sliced up by Trunks sword (he also kills his Father Cold with a simple KI blast).
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lol, the sword goku blocked with his finger? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL



			
				Bullet said:
			
		

> Goku avoiding rocks.
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well of course hes going to dodge rocks.. rather than stand there and get hit like an idiot?
not to mention thats goku before he was SSJ.. by the end of dbz goku couldve farted his old self to death


btw im sure in creating this thread the author was assuming that people would debate goku fighting against gundam on fair grounds, eg: goku can fly in space
a gundam blowing up a planet only to have goku IT to another planet is indredibly stupid :\

also.. im convinced that a gundam, although very fast.. wouldnt be able to take shots at goku flying around.. the only way for goku to get hit would be if he sat there and started charging up a spirit bomb.. going "errgghhh im constipated"


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## ~Kaio-Cam~ (Dec 19, 2005)

omg, *cough* Bullet... u must really hate dbz. It's so obvious that Goku is stronger than a Gundam. I've just realized how outskirts of konoha is wasting my time. Anyway it goes like regardless of anything.

Goku shoots a Kamehamaha at a Gundam at Full Power, capable of destroying the Earth 100X, and it's over. No no, it doesnt matter if the Gundam can move out the way, Goku know Instant Transmission and can teleport to catch the Gundam Pilot off gaurd. 

THE END 

i swear to god if something lame is posted i'ma lm"F"ao

and whoever said a gundam can just grab goku and go into outerspace is lame. Why would Goku allow himself to be forced into outerspace. I think he's proven to have strength already to resist something like that.



> Devil/Dark Gundam can only be killed by the power of love.................
> Plus who's to say that any of the DBZ cant get infected by the virus shit they get thier mind cotrolled half the time and didnt Goku suffer from a viral heart desises. So um yeah
> 
> Gundam FTW.



lol what?? Isnt there a pilot inside a Gundam... and of course a virus affect a "living Creature" Didnt u take Biology? A Gundam is a Machine. It doesnt have  a heart, blood, liver, organs, all that stuff. Saying that Goku can be affected by a virus and a GUndam cant, doesnt effect the outcome of a head to head combat. In fact, it has nothing to do with this thread at all. Plus, i saw u mentioned that a Gundam can destroy the world...EXCUSE ME?! did i jus hear that. ur killin me man, seriously, are u 13? I wont explain myself, kids will never learn. 

Ok.. a gundam has a radar, what good will that do if goku is flying around like speedy Fly. Tell me child Bullet, if u were in an open field, with a FLY, and could only go 200 yds, how long will it take u to catch the fly if it never stops flying. Saying this, that's how it's like pretty much if Goku fought a Gundam. Too small, too fast, **BONUS** much "Stronger". 

SIT DOWN... no no SIT CH'YO ASS DOWN


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## Donkey Show (Dec 19, 2005)

Being both a Gundam and DB lover... I have to speak my peace here. XD

The only Gundam that would have any minute chance of challenging Goku (at the end of the Buu Saga) is God Gundam, mainly due to Domon piloting and his ability to pull some crazy shit out of his ass. XD

In terms of projectiles and energy weapons being thrown at him, Goku would be able to either completely dodge, stop, or destroy them.  Remember when he was helping Gohan train with the Zet Sword?  He was chucking some of the most densest material in the universe at him with ease.  Now how is a bullet from lets say... Heavyarms going to stop Goku?

Massive laser spamming, a la Freedom Gundam?  No biggie, Goku's been through worse and easily survived.

As for Devil Gundam infecting Goku with the DG cells... unless he was being really stupid, Goku would be able to thwart the danger with ease.

Other things to mention... no Gundam has the sheer raw power to obliterate a planet the size of earth.  Gundam Physalis only had a nuclear weapon, granted it was a power nuclear weapon, there isn't enough to destroy earth.  Falling space colonies have more raw destructive power than a Gundam.

Now that I think about it, add Zeta, Double Zeta, and Nu Gundam to my list of being able to kinda give Goku a scare (but Goku ftw anyways), since they were able to amplify the pilot's newtype powers to do really crazy things, like having battle auras that deflect anything and stopping an asteroid from falling onto earth. O_O


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## Luckey (Dec 19, 2005)

Gotenks travelled at 60x less than lightspeed in BASE FORM in dbz.  Gotenks ssj3 like 20x stronger can probably travel 3x less than lightspeed.  Goku ssj4, who isnt stronger PHYSICALLY than ssj3, but rather with ki is probably capable of light speed.


ssj4 is stronger than ssj3.  ssj4 may have struggled with a building, but if you compare body mass with ssj3 and ssj4, you'll see ssj4 is smaller.  This in turn makes goku weaker, however, i believe his power level is much higher than that of ssj3, and his ki blasts AND speed are at a higher rate.


ssj3 goku couldnt take bebi

ssj4 could because his ki blasts and speed and powerlevel was higher.

 sj4 Goku wasnt able to lift the building, because that required raw muscle strength.  sj4 Goku was able to deal more damage with punches and ki blasts to bebi because he was faster and lighter.


Think of ussj2 compared to ssj2.  I believe ssj3 is the ussj form of ssj4


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## ~ Masamune ~ (Dec 19, 2005)

A tin can vs Goku..you do the math^^


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## Bullet (Dec 19, 2005)

> lol, the sword goku blocked with his finger? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL



Using his KI energy around him though (unfortunately cyborg Freeza didn't have time to do that) and Trunks isn't as strong as a Gundam.



> well of course hes going to dodge rocks.. rather than stand there and get hit like an idiot?



Yes because they hurt him.



> not to mention thats goku before he was SSJ.. by the end of dbz goku couldve farted his old self to death



Goku was at ssj2 when he fought Majin Vegeta, he was desperate to avoid being forced against that Rock.



> btw im sure in creating this thread the author was assuming that people would debate goku fighting against gundam on fair grounds, eg: goku can fly in space



I don't think so, other wise that whould have been stated already.



> a gundam blowing up a planet only to have goku IT to another planet is indredibly stupid :\



Gundam pilot isn't going to do that though.




> also.. im convinced that a gundam, although very fast.. wouldnt be able to take shots at goku flying around.. the only way for goku to get hit would be if he sat there and started charging up a spirit bomb.. going "errgghhh im constipated"



And how do you know this? A Gundam pilot has sensors and is very good at taking out targets. Goku's fasts, but if he stands there not making an offensive attack, he'll be hit.



> omg, *cough* Bullet... u must really hate dbz. It's so obvious that Goku is stronger than a Gundam. I've just realized how outskirts of konoha is wasting my time. Anyway it goes like regardless of anything.



How is Goku stronger than a Gundam? Why do you think I hate Goku? 



> Goku shoots a Kamehamaha at a Gundam at Full Power, capable of destroying the Earth 100X, and it's over.



Goku won't be given the time or chance to fire off a Kamehameha wave and he can't destroy the Earth 100x.



> No no, it doesnt matter if the Gundam can move out the way, Goku know Instant Transmission and can teleport to catch the Gundam Pilot off gaurd.



If Goku IT infront of a Gundam, he'll only be setting himself up. One Beam Saber slash whould end the fight quickly.



> THE END



I don't think so.



> i swear to god if something lame is posted i'ma lm"F"ao



Chill out.



> and whoever said a gundam can just grab goku and go into outerspace is lame.



Why couldn't a Gundam do that? It gives them a even better advantge.



> Why would Goku allow himself to be forced into outerspace. I think he's proven to have strength already to resist something like that.



Goku doesn't have the strength to break free from a Gundams grip.



> lol what?? Isnt there a pilot inside a Gundam... and of course a virus affect a "living Creature" Didnt u take Biology?



Huh?




> A Gundam is a Machine. It doesnt have a heart, blood, liver, organs, all that stuff.



This gives the Gundam a big advantge since it won't have to worry about wounds.



> Saying that Goku can be affected by a virus and a GUndam cant, doesnt effect the outcome of a head to head combat.



It does, since a Gundam is a machine it won't be effected by the virus, but Goku will.



> In fact, it has nothing to do with this thread at all.



It does, since it's one of there abilities.



> Plus, i saw u mentioned that a Gundam can destroy the world...EXCUSE ME?! did i jus hear that. ur killin me man, seriously, are u 13? I wont explain myself, kids will never learn.



A Gundam doesn't need to destroy the world to win the battle.



> Being both a Gundam and DB lover... I have to speak my peace here. XD



Lets hear it.



> The only Gundam that would have any chance of challenging Goku (at the end of the Buu Saga) is God Gundam, mainly due to Domon piloting and his ability to pull some crazy shit out of his ass. XD



I disagree. Wing Gundam (Hero) and Kira's Gundam can also do it.



> In terms of projectiles and energy weapons being thrown at him, Goku would be able to either completely dodge, stop, or destroy them.



A Gundam will have a easier time dodging Goku's energy blasts with there sensors, they can dodge them or  they can use there shield to block his energy blasts.



> Remember when he was helping Gohan train with the Zet Sword?



Yes.



> He was chucking some of the most densest material in the universe at him with ease.



I remeber them stating that It was the hardest metal in the universe, but never gave a weight (it wasn't that big though).



> Now how is a bullet from lets say... Heavyarms going to stop Goku?



Easy, penetrate through his skin, killing him.



> Massive laser spamming, a la Freedom Gundam? No biggie, Goku's been through worse and easily survived.



Gundam has taken alot and survived. Now if Goku gets hit with there lazer cannon and the bunch he'll be in pain (espcailly since Goku's been hit by less too). And if he's hit by a Beam Saber the match is pretty much done.



> As for Devil Gundam infecting Goku with the DG cells... unless he was being really stupid, Goku would be able to thwart the danger with ease.



The DG cells can stay out of this, but if Goku was to get in contact with it, he'll be trouble.




> Other things to mention... no Gundam has the sheer raw power to obliterate a planet the size of earth.
> 
> Gundam Physalis only had a nuclear weapon, granted it was a power nuclear weapon, there isn't enough to destroy earth. Falling space colonies have more raw destructive power than a Gundam.



They don't need to destroy the planet, since the planet isn't there target.



> Now that I think about it, add Zeta, Double Zeta, and Nu Gundam to my list of being able to kinda give Goku a scare (but Goku ftw anyways), since they were able to amplify the pilot's newtype powers to do really crazy things, like have battle auras and stop an asteroid. O_O



I disagree. i think they could also beat Goku. I whould also like to add
Gundam Epyon to the list.



> Gotenks travelled at 60x less than lightspeed in BASE FORM in dbz. Gotenks ssj3 like 20x stronger can probably travel 3x less than lightspeed.



This is all unproven and speculation.



> Goku ssj4, who isnt stronger PHYSICALLY than ssj3, but rather with ki is probably capable of light speed.



No he isn't, even in ssj4, Goku was still using IT. Also, during his fight against Omega Shinron, he couldn't out race his blasts, so ssj4 Goku is close to being light speed. Omega Shinron also had a difficult time out flying a nuke explosion created by ssj4 Goku.



> ssj4 is stronger than ssj3. ssj4 may have struggled with a building, but if you compare body mass with ssj3 and ssj4, you'll see ssj4 is smaller.



It whouldn't matter, but i think ssj4 is bigger than ssj3.



> This in turn makes goku weaker, however, i believe his power level is much higher than that of ssj3, and his ki blasts AND speed are at a higher rate.



How whould you know this?



> ssj3 goku couldnt take bebi



It whouldn't matter though, since GT isn't cannon.



> ssj4 could because his ki blasts and speed and powerlevel was higher.



Again GT isn't cannon and ssj3 Goku IMO is greater than ssj4. The only thing ssj4 Goku has over ssj3, is the ability to stay in his transformation longer.



> sj4 Goku wasnt able to lift the building, because that required raw muscle strength.



SSJ4 Goku had a difficult time pushing (not lifting) the building back in place.



> sj4 Goku was able to deal more damage with punches and ki blasts to bebi because he was faster and lighter.



But GT is cannon and it doesn't prove that ssj4 Goku is greater than ssj3 Goku.



> Think of ussj2 compared to ssj2. I believe ssj3 is the ussj form of ssj4



Okay.



> A tin can vs Goku..you do the math^^



Nice arguement.


----------



## Kira Yamato (Dec 19, 2005)

> They don't need to destroy the planet to harm a Z fighter. Again I said they could destroy planets, just not by throwing a energy blasts, bringing it to dust.


I could easily say the same thing about upper echeleon Z-fighter (Goku) doing it to Gundam pilots...because I'm assuming Kira Strike and Freedom Gundam didn't decide to self-detonate, but was beaten by another Gundam (i.e. Aegis, and Impulse) which don't exactly impresses me in terms of power. 




> Cells blasts wasn't able to destroy the planet until he charged up his Kamehameha wave.



Yeah, what was the point here? He could have destroyed the planet. 





> It's not incosistent, there's been alot of times where they show them being vunerble to things that isn't planet destroying.
> 
> Here's ssj2 Goku fighting against ssj2 Majin Vegeta in cave, Vegeta tries to force Goku into a sharp rock. Look at the Majin Buu saga, video #3.
> 
> ...




However, at their power levels, it's expected that they would be injured. because for example you would have to assume that a Gundam would have more power than Buu, *there'd have to be some underlying assumption there, otherwise you would have never made that point*..but I wouldn't agree with you on that...

The potential of Gundams are limited, because in the end there made by people, which means all are vulnerable to some type of defect, because let's face it, no ones perfect and there are bound to be flaws and limitations to man's creations. Not only that, but they'd have to obey some physics rules in the Gundam universe, which isn't so much of a problem in the DB universe, where hero's are always coming proned to come back from death on more than one occassion and usually stronger. That isn't always the case in the Gundam universe. 

Like mentioned before most Gundams, do not have the potential to blow up a planet on there on...and even if they did...and someone mentioned Goku couldn't live without air...1. why wouldn't he deflect the blast...2. There's always instant Transmission to another planet...



> But GT is cannon and it doesn't prove that ssj4 Goku is greater than ssj3 Goku.



That's your own opinion. Fact is the show was created, regardless of if the  original creator was/was not behind the series development. If it was made by a studio, I'm validating it, and it should be used in an argument. No matter, how a person may feel about the show's validity, SSJ4>>>SSJ3. 

*Is shocked no one finds any *irony* in a person with my username defending Goku* xDDD

*No one probably knows his former usernames on this site: majinveggito, ssjsuperveggito*


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## Donkey Show (Dec 19, 2005)

Bullet said:
			
		

> Lets hear it.


No problem.




> I disagree. Wing Gundam (Hero) and Kira's Gundam can also do it.


Explain exactly how.  I'd like to hear this.  Not just, "Wing Gundam has uber laser."  It takes too long to charge up the buster rifle for it to be effective against Goku and he has repelled far more devastating blasts.  Freedom can spam all it want, and even with Kira's Seed mode, his reflexes won't be able to keep up with a mach 1 -3 moving Goku.  When was the last time you saw Freedom or Wing Gundam move soooooooooooooooooooo fast they did that little "teleportation" animation?  Never.  Second, none of them have the same  hand to hand capabilities as God Gundam, thanks to Domon. 



> A Gundam will have a easier time dodging Goku's energy blasts with there sensors, they can dodge them or  they can use there shield to block his energy blasts.


Wow, you think that the radar would be able to pick up Goku if he was moving at full battle speed? O_O  Radar wouldn't be able to process his coordinates.  The closest thing that would be able to detect Goku at all before getting pummeled into scraps would be a Newtype's negative reaction time.  It's one thing to know where an attack is coming from but, I doubt a Gundam could take the sheer full on attack of Goku.

Their shield huh?  Be it made of Gundanium or a beam shield, it still wouldn't be enough.  An attack with the force of a couple of megatons will make that thing crumble.  A shield made of Phase Shift from Seed?  No biggie, phase shift only works against projectile weapons such as missles, bullets, and whatnot.  Hey, Goku shoots energy, which is what PS armor can't protect against.  Beam shields can only protect a certain area.  If Goku wanted to control his Kamehamehas like how he did against Freeza, that's way to easy to get around.



> I remeber them stating that It was the hardest metal in the universe, but never gave a weight (it wasn't that big though).


Something doesn't have to be big in order for it to be dense.  Both Kais were amazed at the fact Goku could pick it up and hurl it with ease.




> Easy, penetrate through his skin, killing him.


Sigh... have you seen DBZ?  Let's see, the last thing that penetrated Goku was Piccolo's Makankosappo.  Nothing since then has gotten close.  His resiliancy to continent-destroying beam blasts is amazing enough, *and you're expecting me to believe that a BULLET can pierce Goku's skin?*  O_O



> Gundam has taken alot and survived. Now if Goku gets hit with there lazer cannon and the bunch he'll be in pain (espcailly since Goku's been hit by less too). And if he's hit by a Beam Saber the match is pretty much done.


Goku has been through so much worse than lets say... God Gundam or any of the Gundams in G Gundam (since they take the worst beating yet are the most resiliant Gundams out of any series in my opinion).  And after every battle, they're pretty messed up, thus the maintenance and everything.  Goku can eat a Senzu Bean and be all good after the fact.  Pain is one thing that you can still work with.  With a machine, if something is broke, it's broke and can't be used until it's repaired.  Is Wing Gundam as dangerous if his buster rifles are destroyed?  No.  What about if his some of its verniers are damaged?

As for the Beam Saber, he's too small and quick for it.  Second, because of a Gundam's size, he could see a swing coming from a mile away.



> They don't need to destroy the planet, since the planet isn't there target.


That still doesn't mean they have planet destroying abilities.  You're veering away from the fact that their power is nowhere as close to Goku's.



> I disagree. i think they could also beat Goku. I whould also like to add
> Gundam Epyon to the list.


Explain how they can beat him, especially since I mentioned their best ability against Goku, which would still give them no hope against him.  And I would really love to hear how Epyon can "beat" Goku. 

BTW, you really need to go into depth about a Gundam's ability if you're planning to convince all of us that a Gundam can beat Goku at his best.  None of your facts have proven anything that would equal Gundam > Goku.

And Naked Jehuty from ZOE would pwn every single Gundam in existence, but that's another battle that's been won. XD

I love Gundam to death, but facts are facts, Goku ftw.


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## aeriolewinters01 (Dec 19, 2005)

Goku can Win but... if we can mind-rape him... Why not use Scirocco... to mindrape Goku...


----------



## Nice Gai (Dec 19, 2005)

hackerman98 said:
			
		

> Rili...this is juz a stupid idea....i think i'll stop after this one...lol
> Which is stronger?
> Any character from DB series vs any Mobile suits from Gundam series...
> Cud Goku's kamehameha be enuf to destroy a whole gundam?
> Or one swoop of the gundam's sword wud be enuf to toast goku into ashes??:S



Umm excuse when has Goku's Kamehameha every kill or destroy anything or anyone? I missed that part in Dragonball.


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## ~Kaio-Cam~ (Dec 19, 2005)

Some kids are forgetting that there's a pilot inside the gundam. It's not the Machine, for if it is only the machine, it would be a sitting giant action figure.

Goku doesnt have to Instant Transmission in front of a Gundam in order to hit it. It could be behind. Plus he can charge up his Kamehameha from a far distance>then strike behind. (if needed, which it isnt)

Goku is faster
*FACT* Earth rotates 1600km/h. If Gotenks (who isnt faster than Goku) can travel around the world in 10 mins. Which is faster. Gundams take much longer from every gundam series i've seen. 

I'm confident that Goku has enough to rip apart pieces of the Gundam. We've seen weaker characters from dbz rip apart space ships and aircrafts like it was nothing. in Gundam series, even if the metal is strong, we've seen it been damaged by laser beams, sabers, bullets, rockets.

Bullet, your combats are weak. You're just saying that Gundams wouldnt do that, no your wrong, goku is not a machine and can be crushed by a mech like machine with guns -_-. Give us a good comparison of Goku and some of what the Gundams can. For Example: Goku has the ability to destroy a whole city with one attack/Gundams can destroy a large part of a city, but not the whole city with one attack.


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## Id (Dec 19, 2005)

Again Dark/Devil Gundam can only be defeated by love!
Last time no one in DBZ has love power.

On top of that The moment Goku physically touches the Dark/Devil Gundam bam he is infected with the DG Cells.

Speaking of what can Goku do to  Dark/Devil Gundam once he fuses on to the world. He cant wont destroy him. Goku is a wuss and he wont destroy earth.


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## konflikti (Dec 19, 2005)

Well, I don't know enough of Gundams to put either combatant as a winner, but...

When has Goku been hit by laser-beam? Or any other beam than ki-beam for that matter? It is natural for him to defend against ki-beam, since he is a ki-manipulator since forever. These other beams are a completely different matter.

Goku better be flying lot faster than mach 3. Targeting computers now can hit stuff that moves at supersonic speeds. Technology is much more advanced in Gundamverse. Oh, and laser-beam should move at light-speed.


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## Id (Dec 19, 2005)

konflikti said:
			
		

> Well, I don't know enough of Gundams to put either combatant as a winner, but...
> 
> When has Goku been hit by laser-beam? Or any other beam than ki-beam for that matter? It is natural for him to defend against ki-beam, since he is a ki-manipulator since forever. These other beams are a completely different matter.
> 
> Goku better be flying lot faster than mach 3. Targeting computers now can hit stuff that moves at supersonic speeds. Technology is much more advanced in Gundamverse. Oh, and laser-beam should move at light-speed.



Agree with everything you say.

Who is to say that Goku dosnt get harmed by an energy blast! its not the same as a Ki blast.

Also 
Cordinators
Zero System
 Psychics 

can anylise and anticipate Gokus attack as well as everything around thier Environment . Anyone who has seen the anime could agree that is at least one thing they have good going thier way.


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## Nice Gai (Dec 19, 2005)

If it Gundam Seed then Goku looses or Hero or Sechs piloting Wing Zero and Epiyon!
If Wing Zero can catch on to Goku's movements, a straight 100% accuracy shooter shooting a buster rifle shot Game Over!


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## Donkey Show (Dec 19, 2005)

Id said:
			
		

> Agree with everything you say.
> 
> Who is to say that Goku dosnt get harmed by an energy blast! its not the same as a Ki blast.
> 
> ...


But that one thing still isn't enough.  Like I said, the best thing a pilot has for them would be the newtype negative reaction time.  Newtypes have far more battle potential than Coordinators and the Zero System (i.e. Amuro, Camille, Judau), but their reflexes can only go so far in comparison to Goku's insane speed.  Case closed, Goku wins.

If Amuro was in God Gundam, that'd be fun to see, but still, he doesn't have the martial arts abilities or agility like Domon to use God Gundam's Full Potential.

As for Devil Gundam, I think a Genki Dama would suffice since it can only be used by a pure hearted soul.  I doubt a love based attack would generally harm Goku.  His love for fighting far supercedes Domon and Rain's love.

As for energy blasts, what do you think #16 - #20 were shooting? O_O


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## konflikti (Dec 19, 2005)

Donkey Show said:
			
		

> But that one thing still isn't enough.  Like I said, the best thing a pilot has for them would be the newtype negative reaction time.  But their reflexes can only go so far in comparison to Goku's insane speed.  Case closed, Goku wins.


Humans driving machines aren't restricted to reaction times. The whole point of machinery is to over-come the limitations of weak human body. I don't agree that Goku's insane speed is even near of light-speed, thus making him vulnerable to high-speed energy-weapons like lasers.


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## Id (Dec 19, 2005)

Gato in Zuie gundamn, while he was in that Gundamn no one had a chance. True or not true. And it was partially due to its shields.

Besides the Dark Gundam regenerates its self, and the love of Goku fighting isnt the same as Rain and Domon love move/special move.:amazed


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## Donkey Show (Dec 19, 2005)

Id said:
			
		

> Gato in Zuie gundamn, while he was in that Gundamn no one had a chance. True or not true. And it was partially due to its shields.
> 
> Besides the Dark Gundam regenerates its self, and the love of Goku fighting isnt the same as Rain and Domon love move/special move.:amazed



That's because Gato's skill is arguably the best in 0083.  He is a Zeon ace.  As for the shields, lets see.  Master Roshi's full power Kamehameha was able to destroy the moon.  Goku's Kamehameha (not full power) at the end of the Buu Saga can easily eclipse that power.  Can GP02A's shield take a hit from a planetary explosive blast?  Last time I remember, Luna Titanium isn't that strong.  In fact I don't ever remember seeing a mobile suit made of Luna Titanium withstand a warship class beam cannon (and that can't blow up a planetoid).

EDIT: Neue Ziel isn't a Gundam so it shouldn't be used for the argument, but all Goku would have to do is punch the I-drive and bam, no beam shield.  The Neue Ziel isn't small or as agile as the smaller mobile suits and thus makes it an easier target, especially for someone with the skills of Goku.  Again, granted the Neue Ziel is in space, lets throw it in plantary atmosphere because it has to go toe to toe with Goku.  Propulsion isn't as effective because of Earth's Gravity and BAM, you have a slow hunk of metal.  And I-field generators back then could only stop energy weapons so Goku can easily thrust his way through and slap the hell out of it.  As for going in space... Bulma makes him a nice little Saiyajin space suit to be on even grounds. XD

Also, these Gundams cannot move their actuators at the same speeds as Goku.  It would put too much strain on them.  I doubt any Gundam's weapon systems or it's actuators can move fast enough to react to Goku's hi speed attacks.

This battle would be like a person trying to fight a fly, a really strong ass fly that has 1000x more strength than that person, shoot literally earth shattering blasts, and can move faster and quicker than V2 Gundam, which could reach up to sub sonic speeds using the Minovsky drive.

LOL, as for the Sekiha Love Love Tenkyoken, I don't think anything is as creative as that in Dragon Ball. XD  For argument's sake, because it was a love story, love does prevail over EVIL!!!  But to say the Genki Dama isn't as powerful as Sekiha Love Love Tenkyoken is ridiculous.  But as for regenerating, Goku can just stop that by destroying the core of the Devil Gundam, by either killing the pilot/battery, or when DG has matured into True Devil Gundam, by venturing into the body and easily smashing the incarnation that Domon/Rain fought with a nice Chou Kamehameha, or if you want to throw in GT, a Jubei Kamehameha.


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## Id (Dec 19, 2005)

Donkey Show said:
			
		

> That's because Gato's skill is arguably the best in 0083.  He is a Zeon ace.  As for the shields, lets see.  Master Roshi's full power Kamehameha was able to destroy the moon.  Goku's Kamehameha (not full power) at the end of the Buu Saga can easily eclipse that power.  Can GP02A's shield take a hit from a planetary explosive blast?  Last time I remember, Luna Titanium isn't that strong.  In fact I don't ever remember seeing a mobile suit made of Luna Titanium withstand a warship class beam cannon (and that can't blow up a planetoid).
> 
> EDIT: Neue Ziel isn't a Gundam so it shouldn't be used for the argument, but all Goku would have to do is punch the I-drive and bam, no beam shield.  The Neue Ziel isn't small or as agile as the smaller mobile suits and thus makes it an easier target, especially for someone with the skills of Goku.  Again, granted the Neue Ziel is in space, lets throw it in plantary atmosphere because it has to go toe to toe with Goku.  Propulsion isn't as effective because of Earth's Gravity and BAM, you have a slow hunk of metal.  And I-field generators back then could only stop energy weapons so Goku can easily thrust his way through and slap the hell out of it.  As for going in space... Bulma makes him a nice little Saiyajin space suit to be on even grounds. XD
> 
> ...




Turn-A gundam with Moonlight Butterfly.


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## Bullet (Dec 19, 2005)

> Acapella said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Donkey Show (Dec 19, 2005)

Id said:
			
		

> Turn-A gundam with Moonlight Butterfly.


That's good. ^^

But it takes time for the Moonlight Butterfly to spread.  Second, it only works on  technological things, not living beings.

And Gundam Wing as a series is broken as hell.  Even a Leo can withstand the same amount of damage as a Gundam, granted one of the G Boys is controlling it.


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## Id (Dec 19, 2005)

Donkey Show said:
			
		

> That's good. ^^
> 
> But it takes time for the Moonlight Butterfly to spread.  Second, it only works on  technological things, not living beings.
> 
> And Gundam Wing as a series is broken as hell.  Even a Leo can withstand the same amount of damage as a Gundam, granted one of the G Boys is controlling it.



Tag team Devil Gundam infects Goku with DG cells and bam Moonlight Butterfly


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## justintse77 (Dec 19, 2005)

I say Goku could own any Gundam


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## Donkey Show (Dec 19, 2005)

Id said:
			
		

> Tag team Devil Gundam infects Goku with DG cells and bam Moonlight Butterfly


LOL XD


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## Bullet (Dec 19, 2005)

justintse77 said:
			
		

> I say Goku could own any Gundam



And I say some Gundams whould own Goku.


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## Donkey Show (Dec 19, 2005)

Bullet said:
			
		

> Goku's not strong enough, he doesn't have the physical might to damage a Gundam, he's better off using KI blasts instead. It took a blast from a space fortress to heavily damage gundam Wing, nevermind Wing Zero.


O_O  WTF are you talking about?  A Gundam in Wing weighs about 10 tons.  Goku was training with 40 tons with ease (as SSJ) on him before he went to the Tenkai Ichi Budokai with Gohan, Goten, and such.  How can you say he doesn't have the sheer strength to tackle a Gundam?

A lot of your arguments are assumptions and rarely have any fact to prove that Goku < Gundam.


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## Bullet (Dec 19, 2005)

> Donkey Show said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Id (Dec 19, 2005)

Id/Xenogear comes in and lays the biggest smack down on both of them. Ha!


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## Bullet (Dec 19, 2005)

Id said:
			
		

> Id/Xenogear comes in and lays the biggest smack down on both of them. Ha!



Yeah that's overkill, the Xenogear was way to powerful!


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## Id (Dec 19, 2005)

Bullet said:
			
		

> Yeah that's overkill, the Xenogear was way to powerful!



Yeah I want to hear donkey shi.....I mean donkey show tell me that anyone from DBZ can take down Id/Xenogear combo!


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## Donkey Show (Dec 19, 2005)

Bullet said:
			
		

> I'm about to find out.


Wow...



> What? A Gundam is bigger than some buildings, they should weigh well over a 100+ tons.


Shows you how much you really know about Gundam.  Here's a little link that'll teach you some things.  

RX-78 weighed around 45 tons.  Every occuring series after, mobile suits get less heavier as better material is used to create them.  Gundanium in Gundam Wing produced some of the lightest material, with Epyon weighing about 8 tons.  Something the weight class of what you say is like Psycho Gundam, and that beast moved horridly slow.



> 40 tons is nothing to a Gundam.


Watch any Gundam series and see how much of a strain it is for a Gundam-class machine to carry their own weight and move as easily as Goku does, apart from G Gundam.  It hasn't happened yet.  What Gundam series have you watched anyways?  Goku was moving like he didn't have the 40 ton weights on.



> Because a Gundam is getting hit by class 100+ attacks. Goku even at ssj2 during his fight with Kid Buu wasn't even strong enough to push a moutain apart. He doesn't have the physical might to take down a Gundam.


Laughable, so you're saying a Gundam can withstand Superman Prime attacks?  No.  As for mountains?  Lets see, how much do they weigh in general?  Far more than a couple thousand tons.  The only instance a Gundam was able to move anything like that was with the Nu Gundam's psychoframe combined with Amuro's newtype abilities and all the pilots will to move the falling asteroid.  And that's a once in a million occurence.  Goku has gone through multiple islands and came out intact ready for battle.  A Gundam would lose its arms, legs, and so on if it went through the same exact beatdown as that.  Remember, not every single part of the Gundam is made of Gundanium, Luna Titanium, or whatever.



> I've proven my point that a Gundam whould beat Goku, you havn't proven that Goku can take on a Gundam.


No you haven't.  All your arguments are baseless, where I have time and time and again have gone pretty in-depth about a Gundam's abilities (with actual facts) versus Goku's abilities.  The fact that you assumed a Gundam's weight was past 100 tons proves that you don't know enough about Gundam to make a strong argument against mine.  I love Gundam to death, but there is no way in hell something the class of Wing, Zeta, Freedom, V2, X, or otherwise that can give him a run for his money.



			
				Id said:
			
		

> Yeah I want to hear donkey shi.....I mean donkey show tell me that anyone from DBZ can take down Id/Xenogear combo!


What the hell?  I doubt Goku could win, but that's not the case at hand is it.


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## Id (Dec 19, 2005)

> Quote from donkey show
> I can't say for sure, but that's not the case at hand is it.


Ok. (shukcs kicks the dirt)

Spiegal Gundam (Neo-Germany)

Dude kicks more ass than God Gundam, So based on my bais thinking He would give Goku a run for his money.


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## Id (Dec 19, 2005)

Any how ppl that are a good match That I belive can take out Goku.
Nu Gundam/Amuro Ray 

ZZ Gundam/ Judau Ashta 

Wing Zero/Hero

God Gundam/Domon Kasshu

Strike Freedom Gundam/Kira Yamato


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## ~Kaio-Cam~ (Dec 19, 2005)

from my experience on the forums... i'm starting to think people are getting the wrong idea of watching cartoons -_-.


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## Bullet (Dec 19, 2005)

> Donkey Show said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Luckey (Dec 19, 2005)

> No he isn't, even in ssj4, Goku was still using IT. Also, during his fight against Omega Shinron, he couldn't out race his blasts, so ssj4 Goku is close to being light speed. Omega Shinron also had a difficult time out flying a nuke explosion created by ssj4 Goku.


 Don't think that he would always try to go his fastest whenver possible.  Who cares if he couldnt outrun the blasts?  Do you have proof that he doesnt reach lightspeed?  Because my speculation has enough information to believe he travels close to it.  And remember, most db fights last only seconds, they frame it down so we can watch.  Who's to say his blasts werent going close to lightspeed?





> It whouldn't matter, but i think ssj4 is bigger than ssj3.


 Yes it would matter.  The muscle mass has everything to do with short-burst lifting of objects.











> How whould you know this?


 Well since it happend, I tried to put logic in it, and that's the most obvious answer.  SSJ3 goku couldnt handle bebi while ssj4 could.  This means ssj3 has bigger muscle mass and is stronger, while ssj4 is faster and can deal more damage since he has more power and speed.

(f=ma)





> It whouldn't matter though, since GT isn't cannon.


 We're talking about Goku, and since he was in DBGT, and you've been arguing about it, we are going to use this version of Goku whether he is canon or not.  Seriously, it doesn't matter if it isnt canon, all of dbgt wasnt canon, but Im arguing about ssj4 goku against gundam.  You didnt specify that we cant use ssj4 goku.





> Again GT isn't cannon and ssj3 Goku IMO is greater than ssj4. The only thing ssj4 Goku has over ssj3, is the ability to stay in his transformation longer.


 Who cares about your 13-year old opinion?  You are biased against non-canon works and i've already given proof that ssj4 is stronger, however, you just make assertion with no evidence.





> SSJ4 Goku had a difficult time pushing (not lifting) the building back in place.


 Muscle Mass still has to do with power lifting.  As i described in my last post, ssj3 goku has more muslce mass, thus he is capable of lifting heavier things, while ssj4 goku, is faster and light and has more powerful ki, thus he would have trouble lifting, but not punching.  Lifting can be exerted by pushing as well (bench press).  Goku ssj4 is faster, but less strength.

ALSO even if you think ssj3 is smaller than ssj4, he can still have more muscle mass or just raw strength while ssj4 has less but is faster.





> But GT is cannon and it doesn't prove that ssj4 Goku is greater than ssj3 Goku.


 IN GT ssj3 fought bebi and lost.  IN GT ssj4 fought bebi and won.  I've already said Im using dbgt version of Goku.  And it DOES prove he is greater than ssj3.


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## Donkey Show (Dec 19, 2005)

Bullet said:
			
		

> I don't need a link.


You really do because you don't know enough about Gundams.


> That's without the weapons and equipment.


All from MAHQ.net

RX-78
Weight: empty 43.4 metric tons; max gross 60.0 metric tons
Zeta Gundam
Weight: empty 28.7 metric tons; max gross 62.3 metric tons
ZZ Gundam
Weight: mobile suit and G-Fortress modes: empty 32.7 metric tons, max gross 68.4 metric tons
Aile Strike Gundam
Weight: max gross weight 85.1 metric tons
God Gundam
Weight: empty 7.5 metric tons; max gross 20.6 metric tons
Wing Gundam Zero
Weight: empty 8.0 metric tons; max gross weight unknown (more likely similar to God Gundam's max gross weight)



> I've seen Gundams carry around giant weapons like a gigaton racking ball with no problem, they're not weak.


Well no kidding.



> No, I'm saying they're some Gundams that could beat Goku.


And I'm saying that's not possible. XD  Id was the only one who came up with something remotely close only by catching Goku off guard.



> Some wiegh less, but Goku was pushing (with strain) not lifting the moutain.


Then show me where a Gundam can push a mountain like the one Goku was pushing with sheer physical strength, without verniers.



> Something Goku won't be able to do though.


Yes he can, with a Full Power Chou Kamehameha  .  You probably didn't even know about the psychoframe phenomenon.



> Depends on which ones.


Then give us facts based on the TV shows.  I have yet to hear any reliable sources of information.




> I have proven why I think a Gundam whould win. With the Gundam's having range attacks, skilled pilots trained to dodge very well, shield to protect them against Goku's energy blasts, Beam Sabers that slice through Gundam's (even the most durable Gundams) so they should be able to do the same to Goku, sensors, and cloaking devices; A Gundam have this IMO.


How about Master Asia being able to fight a mobile suit by himself, easily dodging and defeating it?  His power level and speed are totally overshadowed Goku's.  Domon can stop Spiegel Gundam's blade with his sword! O_O  If those two can compete head on with a Gundam without the use of their suits, Goku will have no problem then.




> I disagree, I think a Gundam can beat Goku with reasons stated above.


And I disagree because your reasons are weak and horribly biased.  But it doesn't matter how many facts I throw at you, from both Gundam and Dragon Ball.  Believe what you want to believe. 

BTW, was Wing Gundam the first Gundam series you've ever watched?


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## pnoypridz (Dec 19, 2005)

^ that right thier deserves a rep


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## Donkey Show (Dec 19, 2005)

pnoypridz said:
			
		

> ^ that right thier deserves a rep


Much love pinoy brother. ^^


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## Id (Dec 19, 2005)

Donkey but! you negged reped me thats ok I still love you.


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## Bullet (Dec 19, 2005)

> Donkey Show said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Donkey Show (Dec 19, 2005)

Id said:
			
		

> Donkey but! you negged reped me thats ok I still love you.


I'd pos rep you back, but I can't right now. XD


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## ~Kaio-Cam~ (Dec 20, 2005)

Donkey SHow > Bullet


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## Bullet (Dec 20, 2005)

Acapella said:
			
		

> Donkey SHow > Bullet




Was that really called for?


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## aeriolewinters01 (Dec 20, 2005)

Wing Zero, Strike Freedom and Akatsuki distract Goku... while Scirocco fries Goku's brain....lol


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## Donkey Show (Dec 20, 2005)

Bullet said:
			
		

> How about giving me something on how Goku is going to beat, Wing Gundam, Strike, Shinning or Burnning Gundam.


Fair enough. ^^

Let's establish some baselines then because if there aren't any, God forbid we have 50 posts crying about this level or that level or canon or not canon.

First and foremost, Goku comes from an overpowered shounen manga where physics are hardly applicable.  Gundam on the otherhand is an anime that attempts to follow some form of physics and realism, thus is why there are stats such as weight, energy output, and whatnot for each of the suits.  ^^

Since it doesn't matter what Goku is being used, lets just say end of Buu Saga Goku.  Also, getting technical with power levels and such is really dumb with Dragon Ball because after the Freeza Saga, Toriyama never really stated exact power levels.

Also, no holds barred, Goku can blow up planets and the battle can be taken to space, thus greatly reducing the weight issue for the Gundams.  Goku gets to wear a special Saiyajin Space Suit made by Bulma so he can breathe in space, and we all know how amazingly tough Dragon Ball clothes are. XD  So basically, the Earth Sphere is the battleground.

Things to note about Goku's abilities so I don't have to continuously repeat myself.

- Can at least withstand conditions of 500x Earth's gravity, easily.  While it was never said that he did do this, Vegeta trained under these conditions, and we know for a fact that Goku is stronger than him.  If you wanna be nitpicky about it, lets say... Goku's about 200lbs.  500x that would be... 50 tons.  He can let a Gundam fall on him and shrug it off.

- Goku can destroy earth sized planetoids with ease.  Goku's base Kamehameha would easily do it, if he wanted to.  Roshi could blow the moon up with his full power Kamehameha, but Goku at the end of DBZ is waaaaaaaaay more powerful than that.  He wouldn't have to charge to have the same effect as Roshi's Kamehameha, let alone use a Kamehameha.

- Goku can control the Kamehameha (multiple ones at that), thus eliminating the need to consistently throw them over and over and over again. He demonstrates this underwater with his battle against Freeza on Namek.

- Goku's speed, granted nowhere close to the speed of light, is far greater than the speed of sound.  It took Goku two days to get from King Kai's place on one end of Snake Way to Enma's hut at the other end, which was about 1 million km.  I don't feel like doing the math, but damn that's stupid fast.  Goku is soooooo much more faster than that at the end of DBZ.  Second, the speed of the battles in DB from that point on are so ridiculous that, guess what, the animators slowed the speed of the battles down so that you can see them kicking, punching and whatnot.  Krillin and Gohan watched in stupid awe as they were looking into what looked like lines in the air as Goku and Raditz fought and it looked like they were tripping out because their eyes were all over the place trying to catch up to them.  What about when Cell and Goku were fighting and the camera crew couldn't catch anything at all?  That's what a DBZ battle would look like in real time with the sounds of hits connecting delayed as hell.  Goku's battle speed is insane, and no Gundam can react that fast regardless of radar, pilot, anything.  Also, to pull something out of the Flash vs. threads, imagine something moving way faster than the speed of sound, punching you in the gut, with Goku's weight.  The force is disgustingly powerful, and with that said, the materials used to make the Androids are far more stronger than Gundanium could ever be.

- Goku can swat energy blasts.  #19 was pure android and didn't have any ki, therefore not being able to create ki based attacks.  It was all energy, just like beam rifles and whatnot.  Goku easily defended against it before his heart problem started to act up.  Since this is the end of DBZ Goku, he's fended off things way more powerful than that, so a twin buster rifle blast from Wing Zero isn't going to worry him at all.

- Goku is impervious to bullets.  In the first or second episode of Dragon Ball (I can't remember for the life of me), Bulma shoots Goku point blank in the head with a pistol.  The bullet is the only casualty as it's flattened from hitting Goku's head.  Gohan, when he was the Great Saiyaman, can catch bullets like nothing.  Goku at the end of DBZ is far more resiliant than that.

- He's also a genius at battling.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

*cue the Gundam fight narrator and the ring enclosing around the Earth* XD

:Strike Gundam:
Strike Gundam's weakness is the striker pack system.  It's abilities are only limited to what pack it has, i.e. aile strike (fast aerial performance), sword (big slow but powerful sword XD ), and launcher (long range blasters w/ missles).  Goku, who can pretty much instantaneously transform into either SSJ1-3 at the end of the series, has a huge power and speed advantage over Strike in all forms.  Another huge disadvantage Strike has is its Phase Shift and battery pack.  Phase Shift pretty much nullifies any kinetic damage, like a bullet or missle attack, but it can still be damaged by energy weaponry.  Second, PS eats away at Strike's battery so it can only be used for small periods of time, especially if it's being pummeled and using it's beam weaponry.  Goku, if he wanted to, can wear out Strike by barraging it with stupidly fast punches, chucking some energy blasts at it from either close or far range (it doesn't matter because like I stated above, Goku's too fast and powerful and can reach and attack Strike anywhere).  If for some god awful reason it survived the first 30 seconds and decided to change striker packs, Goku would just zoom towards it and kick it to oblivion or shoot it down.

Goku easily FTW.

:Wing Gundam:
Can turn into a plane like figher mode which has more top end speed and has the buster rifle which is very powerful, almost space colony destroying strength.  Other than that, it just has vulcans and a beam saber.  Yet, Wing Gundam is not as agile as Deathscythe or Shen Long.  Heavily relies on its Gundanium armor to wade through the crappy armies of Leos.  Can Goku withstand a direct beam blast?  Of course.  His battle with Freeza, before SSJ, had him at the end of one hell of a nuclear looking blast that took out a fairly huge chunk of Namek.  And he got right back up, rather beat down, but again, we're talking about end of DBZ Goku.  #1 his speed wouldn't allow him to get caught up by the Buster Rifle.  The only reason Goku would get caught up in it was to either laser battle it, which he would win easily, or to just reflect it either right back at WZ, or swat it to the side like it was nothing.  WZ is outclassed in both speed and power by Goku.  Not even Gundanium can withstand supersonic attacks and laser blasts of immense magnitude.  And we all know that if Heero can't win, he'd just blow himself up anyways. XD

:God Gundam:
I'm not using Shining because why should I?  Super Robot to the core, God Gundam can do some really wild attacks, probably some of the most powerful in the Gundam universe.  God Finger, Sehika Tenkyoken, and many variations on those attacks as well.  Just as quick and agile its pilot, it can rock hard.  But again, Goku outclasses it with his speed and power (basically everything that I've mentioned above).  If God Gundam was ever able to catch Goku with his God Finger, Goku can just break out of it with ease.  A Gundam's hand cannot apply the same amount of pressure as 500x gravity (again like stated above).  Goku would probably just have fun with Domon, as he is another martial artist, and play down to his level.  A Sekiha Tenkyoken is nowhere near to planetary shattering as a Kamehameha is.

Again, Goku FTW.

As for Scirroco frying Goku's brain, would he even have the chance to do it as Goku zips around blasting everyone else in an instant, including him?  Fun idea though. XD


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## konflikti (Dec 20, 2005)

Since I didn't have better stuff to do I calculated Goku's speed in travelling speed on Snake Way. If he made no stops it would be something like 17x the speed of sound. I don't know how hard he was pushing himself.

Couple things I'd like to point out. Supersonic punches ain't really that amazing. Bullets are supersonic. Missiles are supersonic. Most Gundams should be supersonic too. My problem is that I don't know enough of Gundamverse to throw stuff around. But in my opinion, advanced technology should be able to follow objects with the speed of Goku. And targeting computers should be able to hit them with beam weapons like lasers.

I'm not so sure Goku can withstand high-level laser without a problem.

The pressure resistance of Goku doesn't mean end it all pressure resistance. For example, even lowly shark has bite of 20t per square inch.(42,674 pounds per square inch. if I didn't convert it in right way(EDIT: Other studies say 3t per sq cm)).

Anyways, it's not that I disagree that Goku has higher probability of win. He apparently has lot better manouverability than Gundams, so I see him taking it most of times. But I think Gundams have a chance too.


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## Scorpio3.14 (Dec 20, 2005)

Base Goku could possible loose to some of the stronger Gundams, however SSJ or up I just dont see the Gundam's having much of a change with Goku's speed and power.


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## Donkey Show (Dec 20, 2005)

Another thing I wanted to point out.  Can Gundams shake the surrounding land with the impact of their fists (besides those in G Gundam)?  No.  Imagine the sheer force coming from each of those hits.  Force like that can make swiss cheese out of Gundanium easily.  Goku can block an attack like that in midair and not be moved from that position.

Again, like I mentioned before, it's really dumb trying to throw physics at Goku because pretty much DBZ throws physics out of the window.  Honestly, can a robot, who can arguably move as fast as it's pilot (referring to G Gundam since the Mobile Trace system is the most advanced piloting system in Gundam) keep up with Goku, who moves incredibly faster than sound and can destroy mountains with punches?  No way.  A machine only has so much potential.  Saiyajins on the other hand, have limitless.


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## aeriolewinters01 (Dec 20, 2005)

> As for Scirroco frying Goku's brain, would he even have the chance to do it as Goku zips around blasting everyone else in an instant, including him? Fun idea though. XD



Ummm....He could vegetize Goku once he dies though.... *Kamille*cough*Kamille*
Bio-Sensor+ZZGundam...FTW....


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## Id (Dec 20, 2005)

aeriolewinters said:
			
		

> Ummm....He could vegetize Goku once he dies though.... *Kamille*cough*Kamille*
> Bio-Sensor+ZZGundam...FTW....




My thoughts exactly, mind raped goku loses he has no way of deffending himslef.


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## Donkey Show (Dec 20, 2005)

From the ending of Zeta, it seemed Scirroco would have to have some physical contact in order to mentally mind fuck Goku, kinda like how he touched Zeta and was still able to get Kamille.  Scirroco was a strong newtype and was able to pressure other newtypes a lot with his power, but he never exhibited anything like long range mental mind rape abilities.  The only other person who can mind rape people in Gundam was Queen Maria, and she was able to do it with the Angel Halo, but that's not a Gundam is it. XD

Goku could always fight the O long range laser style and wipe him out completely without Scirroco being able to put a thought into anything.  But mind raping probably would work. XD


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## Scared Link (Dec 20, 2005)

Why do you people make me suffer? No one can defeat someone who travels the speed of light and can destroy plaets with one finger! Get it through you're heads!


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## Id (Dec 20, 2005)

Hakuna Matata said:
			
		

> Why do you people make me suffer? No one can defeat someone who travels the speed of light and can destroy plaets with one finger! Get it through you're heads!




you suffer becuse you are week................


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## Shadow Replication 1480 (Dec 20, 2005)

When will people stop thinking Goku can go the speed of light? If he could in the first place, he wouldn't need IT...


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## Luckey (Dec 21, 2005)

So is there more evidence leading to Gundam or Goku now?


...don't make me do research and write a huge thing on Goku


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## ISHIDA_AKIRA (Dec 21, 2005)

> Why do you people make me suffer? No one can defeat someone who travels the speed of light and can destroy planets with one finger! Get it through you're heads!


Goku 4 struggles lifting a bus...
Goku 4 can only use instant transmission on guys w/ "ki aura"...
Goku 4 has kamehameha... so what? we got akatsuki...

Remember my child... Goku is not GOD

Option A: teh brainfrying Newtypes

Option B: Take teh battle up space, see if goku can breathe there

Option C: Teh devil gundam

Option D: Guys w/ syringes....


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## Donkey Show (Dec 21, 2005)

Luckey said:
			
		

> So is there more evidence leading to Gundam or Goku now?
> 
> 
> ...don't make me do research and write a huge thing on Goku


I already did. XD


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