# Dear The Internet, This Is Why You Can't Have Anything Nice



## The Pink Ninja (Jun 14, 2012)

> Something wonderful happened on the internet this week. And something horrible happened at the same time.
> 
> A Californian blogger, Anita Sarkeesian, launched a Kickstarter project to make a web video series about "tropes vs women in videogames". Following on from her similar series on films, it aimed to look at women as background decoration, Damsels in Distress, the Sexy Sidekick and so on. Her pitch is here:
> 
> ...


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## Mael (Jun 14, 2012)

4chan and ED strike.  Nothing really new here but it looks a lot like a paranoid notion of Arkh Project 2.0, but where the Arkh was bullshit this actually made some sense.

Pity.


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## Blue (Jun 14, 2012)

So mad

so fucking mad

at this inveterate bint


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## E (Jun 14, 2012)

that wikipedia page :rofl

--------

(my lawyer told me to add a "that's not cool guys, stop it" comment here, so here it is)


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## AfterGlow (Jun 14, 2012)

Only thing I care about in this article is that her "gender studies of video game characters", as any biased BS study made by some feminazi completely excludes the male gender roles from the perspective.

The "damsel in distress" and "the sexy sidekick" are bad because these tropes are aimed at women, however, take the 100 or so MALE gender roles from video games, and you will paint an equally sexist picture, just ten times worse; while women are sexy objects, men are unfeeling machines built like body builders that can take down an empire by themselves, which is completely fine, obviously.

Men and women are both subject to sexism and unhealthy gender roles in video games, this is nothing new or even news worthy. It however becomes a stinking load of horse shit when only focusing on women. 

Poor women, being mistreated by video games, baaaaw.
(Men can suck it up)


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## ShiggyDiggyDoo (Jun 14, 2012)

Yea, misogynism is quite a problem on the internet. I've seen like countless amounts of stupid kitchen insults. I'd be willing to bet that most of the guys who do it are the same ones who label themselves as the nice guys who don't get the girl.


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## Magicbullet (Jun 14, 2012)

Go Internet, prove her right moar! You can do it!...and you will. 

Oh, and it seems she got her money, ten times over, all according to plan.

I am amused.


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## Blue (Jun 14, 2012)

> Men and women are both subject to sexism and unhealthy gender roles in video games, this is nothing new or even news worthy. It however becomes a stinking load of horse shit when only focusing on women.
> 
> Poor women, being mistreated by video games, baaaaw.
> (Men can suck it up)





I have never heard a more pandering, facetious, intellectually dishonest or ignorant pitch in my life than from this ridiculous bint, hell-bent on exploiting feminism and the _actual_ issues it was fomented to address to get a bunch of schmucks to pay her over $80,000 to _play video games all day_.

Everything she implies is either blatantly untrue, utterly out of context, or applies equally to male characters. 

I support women's rights wholeheartely. I'm not fond of feminism, as it's a more extreme form of women's rights that usually seeks to upend gender rights and disenfranchise men while keeping discrimination that serves women, but both women's rights and feminism are real movements dedicated to addressing real problems in society.

This is not a real problem and implying it is opens up a lot of cans best sealed.


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## Petes12 (Jun 14, 2012)

20x over in fact

$123,876 PLEDGED OF $6,000 GOAL

haha jesus


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## Blue (Jun 14, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> 20x over in fact
> 
> $123,876 PLEDGED OF $6,000 GOAL
> 
> haha jesus





I have literally never been mad at something on the internet before
Literally never


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## Petes12 (Jun 14, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> I have never heard a more pandering, facetious, intellectually dishonest or ignorant pitch in my life than from this ridiculous bint, hell-bent on exploiting feminism and the _actual_ issues it was fomented to address to get a bunch of schmucks to pay her over $80,000 to _play video games all day_.
> 
> Everything she implies is either blatantly untrue, utterly out of context, or applies equally to male characters.
> 
> ...



are you being ironic or something

because youre being dumb


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## Blue (Jun 14, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> are you being ironic or something



No, I'm dead serious. Any exploited characters in video games are the result of bad writing, not misogyny, and men are "victims" of it too.
In the past we dealt with it by not buying the game

Now apparently we have to play 123,000 dollars worth of video games and write papers about how Bayonetta's outfit is tacky.


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## Coteaz (Jun 14, 2012)

So she wants to be paid to play video games and tell us things we already know. 

Wow.


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## Han Solo (Jun 14, 2012)

Coteaz said:


> So she wants to be paid to play video games and tell us things we already know.
> 
> Wow.



And now has $123,876 to do it.


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## Petes12 (Jun 14, 2012)

well it doesn't really matter whether it was on purpose or not, does it? whatever the reason for it, if people aren't cognizant of it then it can just reinforce outdated stereotypes. otoh, more awareness of it can mean writers who are more aware of what they're writing. 

And male characters get badly written too but it's not like negative stereotypes


of course the beauty of kickstarter is if you don't like it you don't have to support it


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## Deleted member 84471 (Jun 14, 2012)

Gamers on the Internet :sweat

$120,000 ffs  



> We've got into a weird situation where you have to get a TV channel controller to sign off a comedian using the word "cunt" after 9pm, but on the internet, people spray it round like confetti.



Yes Ms. Lewis, what a "weird situation". 

No swearing till after 9pm across the world-wide-web  What a bloody clever idea, no wonder it hasn't been thought of before.


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## ~rocka (Jun 14, 2012)

That wikipedia page was pure gold.


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## Coteaz (Jun 14, 2012)

Han Solo said:
			
		

> And now has $123,876 to do it.


Oh fuck me. 



Petes12 said:


> And male characters get badly written too but *it's not like negative stereotypes*


REAL MEN DON'T HAVE FEELINGS !


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## Petes12 (Jun 14, 2012)

ok but its not on the same level i think that should be obvious


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## Mael (Jun 14, 2012)

Skin armor/tits on them ladies who are also tsundere badass and totally unflinching and muscle-bound Marcus Fenix Spess Mehrens.

That's the standard it seems.

I also blame Other M for this tripe.


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## Han Solo (Jun 14, 2012)

Coteaz said:


> Oh fuck me.



It makes me laugh honestly, all these morons who thought it's be funny to insult her and act like a bunch of retarded five year olds with some "hurrr duur, get in the kitchen" insults are probably what caused it.

What a bunch of colossal fucking failures.


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## Mael (Jun 14, 2012)

I think we should all take up some pledge for whatever poorly represented group we can find in video games and webcomics, demand justice, ??????, and then profit!


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## Blue (Jun 14, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> And male characters get badly written too but it's not like negative stereotypes


Oh yes it fucking is. 
Played Gears of War?
Gruff, untalkative fucking HUGE dudes who would weigh 200 kilos in real life.
Halo?
Master Chief has 10 lines in the entire trilogy, and is one of the most popular characters ever because he breaks stuff and looks like an astronaut.
And those are just A-list titles, let's not get into Duke Nukem or Serious Sam.

And now you're going
"How are those negative stereotypes?"

Yes, how is looking like a champion weightlifter while only uttering lines about either destroying shit or destroying women in bed negative?

It's not really. It's just pandering to gender roles, gender roles that both genders subscribe to. Men don't mind identifying with hulks of few words, and women don't mind identifying with scantily-clad temptresses. Whether those characters are intelligent and interesting is another issue altogether.

But that's an actual complex thought

"Hurr durr lookit these women in bikinis, how disrespectful" is simple so it appeals to morons

123,000 dollars worth of morons


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## Mael (Jun 14, 2012)

^To be fair dude, Serious Sam is a PARODY.

And a fucking fun game.

Gears however is such an example, turning Marcus Fenix into a muscly piece of leather and Anya Stroud into...well bleh.

And yeah I'll go so far as to say W40K toes this line, but Space Marines are a bit...different...sorta like Sororitas.


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## Blue (Jun 14, 2012)

Mael said:


> Skin armor/tits on them ladies who are also tsundere badass and totally unflinching and muscle-bound Marcus Fenix Spess Mehrens.


GET OUT OF MY HEAD CHARLES



Mael said:


> ^To be fair dude, Serious Sam is a PARODY.
> 
> And a fucking fun game.



Did you miss my point? I know it is.

Bayonetta is fun too. So's Borderlands, and Dead or Alive, and whatever else this pandering pig was using for examples.

Duke Nukem is not
But whatever, it's not about whether the games are good.


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## Karsh (Jun 14, 2012)

I'm fine with this project and yeah loads of people get threatened and harassed on the internet, although I wonder if pizzas getting sent to your home could escalate to some srs shit

in fact, I bet it was these trolls' very intent to anger as many people as possible and get this project this much attention just so people would dish out their money for this

the trolls are the real feminazis around here, shit I admire them
genius


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## Mael (Jun 14, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> GET OUT OF MY HEAD CHARLES







> Did you miss my point? I know it is.



Yeah but you mentioned it as if you were seriously considering it was meant to seriously portray a stereotype the way Gears does.



> Bayonetta is fun too. So's Borderlands, and Dead or Alive, and whatever else this pandering pig was using for examples.
> 
> Duke Nukem is not
> But whatever, it's not about whether the games are good.



Difference between these however is that none of them are meant as parody.  The developers don't even think this, especially not the Japanese.

And Duke Nukem was shit no matter how you look at it.


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## Deimos (Jun 14, 2012)

Gender stereotypes in _video games_? Seriously?

Besides, everywhere I look I see strong and smart female heroes who are just as good as males with the added bonus of being smexier. What the hell does she want?


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## Magicbullet (Jun 14, 2012)

Han Solo said:


> It makes me laugh honestly, all these morons who thought it's be funny to insult her and act like a bunch of retarded five year olds with some "hurrr duur, get in the kitchen" insults are probably what caused it.
> 
> What a bunch of colossal fucking failures.



I know right, it's hilarious, I hope she makes a million dollars out of this mess.


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## God (Jun 14, 2012)

AfterGlow said:


> Only thing I care about in this article is that her "gender studies of video game characters", as any biased BS study made by some feminazi completely excludes the male gender roles from the perspective.
> 
> The "damsel in distress" and "the sexy sidekick" are bad because these tropes are aimed at women, however, take the 100 or so MALE gender roles from video games, and you will paint an equally sexist picture, just ten times worse; while women are sexy objects, men are unfeeling machines built like body builders that can take down an empire by themselves, which is completely fine, obviously.
> 
> ...



this

WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE


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## Blue (Jun 14, 2012)

OKAY FINE SERIOUS SAM WAS PARODY

Substitute Crackdown then. No female characters, anywhere in the whole game. Just huge dudes breaking shit.


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## Mael (Jun 14, 2012)

> OKAY FINE SERIOUS SAM WAS PARODY
> 
> Substitute Crackdown then. No female characters, anywhere in the whole game. Just huge dudes breaking shit.



GOOD!  IT WAS PARODY...AND EMBARRASSING LULZ!

Crackdown was just shit too.  I can't believe they were allowed to make a sequel of that.

If anything the females have evolved from the more silent or DiD roles the classics had save for Samus Aran only to ironically be fucked over in the latest game.  I haven't heard once of Ellie Langford being the Sexy Sidekick or Sarah Lyons being some raging whore.  You have to take the bad with the good.


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## Petes12 (Jun 14, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> Oh yes it fucking is.
> Played Gears of War?
> Gruff, untalkative fucking HUGE dudes who would weigh 200 kilos in real life.
> Halo?
> ...



I didn't say it didn't happen with male characters too, I just think it's less extensive, there's more variety in them. and frankly i think objectification is a bit worse than 'BE A MAN' or whatever


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## Roman (Jun 14, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> And male characters get badly written too but it's not like negative stereotypes



Have you ever played God of War? Gender stereotypes left and right, male and female, I tell you.


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## Blue (Jun 14, 2012)

Mael said:


> If anything the females have evolved from the more silent or DiD roles the classics had save for Samus Aran only to ironically be fucked over in the latest game.  I haven't heard once of Ellie Langford being the Sexy Sidekick or Sarah Lyons being some raging whore.  You have to take the bad with the good.



Well, they were trying to add depth to Samus's character. Like Master Chief, a soulless person in an astronaut suit who simply guns down everything in their way is appealing but not exactly an amazing character.

Unfortunately they entrusted it to Team Ninja. Worse, a Team Ninja without Itagaki. 
I mean, I don't think that added to the misogyny of the game. Team Ninja is known for DOA and it's bouncing boobs, but Hayabusa's ass bounces too and nobody in any of those games wears clothes that aren't skintight. But they're not exactly known for their depth.


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## Petes12 (Jun 14, 2012)

and no i haven't played gears of war or god of war, partly because of what stupid meatheads the characters looked like


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## Lina Inverse (Jun 14, 2012)

man

$120k+


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## Mizura (Jun 14, 2012)

Whoa, so this was supposed to be a tiny little $6000 documentary project (that's nothing, that's like... the price of video equipment), and trolls managed to make this into a much bigger deal than it's supposed to be.

I mean, without the trolling, it'd probably have ended up as another Youtube clip nobody cares or heard about. :|

But anyway, as for me I have nothing against the fact that it only addresses female stereotypes, even though both men and women are stereotyped. Studies about bad game stereotypes must start Somewhere. If there's a comprehensive study on female stereotype, maybe it will Then prompt a comprehensive study on male stereotypes too.


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## Petes12 (Jun 14, 2012)

also, wait, bayonetta wasn't a parody?


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## Karsh (Jun 14, 2012)

Until BEING A MAN is considered generally a bad thing, it'll never be worse than acting weak and useless and whiny and emotional, why else do women whine to be shown as stronger in entertainment? Because THAT's a POSITIVE trait.

If we want to make things more realistic in games, well, representing the sheer amount of variation that actually exists IRL will sure make life harder for entertainment producers since when it comes to near impossible to impossible feats of physics towards every body type, the lines of what is actually realistic blurr completely.


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## Blue (Jun 14, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> I didn't say it didn't happen with male characters too, I just think it's less extensive, there's more variety in them. and frankly i think objectification is a bit worse than 'BE A MAN' or whatever



What you call objectification is pervasive in our entire culture, not just video games. 

Did you notice how much makeup Sark wore in her video? That's objectification. And while I think it's an issue in some regards, and I think it's ironic that she'd make a video talking about this nonsense after emptying an Revlon store, I don't see an issue with women valued for being attractive and men valued for being strong.

Whether a person is intelligent and capable, and whether other people consider them more attractive for it - that's a separate issue altogether.

In video game reality, women are attractive and men are strong and, like real life, some are even interesting.


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## Petes12 (Jun 14, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> What you call objectification is pervasive in our entire culture, not just video games.


 duh, and what's wrong with talking about it?



> Did you notice how much makeup Sark wore in her video? That's objectification. And while I think it's an issue in some regards, and I think it's ironic that she'd make a video talking about this nonsense after emptying an Revlon store, I don't see an issue with women valued for being attractive and men valued for being strong.



I do. they're stupid ways to value people. not that it's the end of the world, but yeah i think it's something worth addressing and being aware of


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## Blue (Jun 14, 2012)

Karsh said:
			
		

> Until BEING A MAN is considered generally a bad thing, it'll never be worse than acting weak and useless and whiny and emotional


>implying men are never whiny and emotional
Fucking Vaan
I want to punch him until he dies
Otacon too, although he's cool when he's on the codec giving me instructions instead of pissing his pants




Petes12 said:


> also, wait, bayonetta wasn't a parody?



...No? No more than Devil May Cry was, in that the main character performed over-the-top utterly impossible stunts constantly.


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## Bioness (Jun 14, 2012)

The wording in the article is interesting. But this is stuff we already know however video game companies seem hell bent on not changing it. It is not just video games either, I think people's real personally just shines through the internet.

For example my set that I wear now gets compliments galore, but as soon as I wear a male equivalent I get hate messages.


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## Rabbit and Rose (Jun 14, 2012)

I like the men stereotypes in games than women stereotypes playing dollies.
Much more fun.


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## Petes12 (Jun 14, 2012)

i know 2 things about bayonetta.

1) she has guns for high heels
2) her hair was her clothing, and her weapons, the more she needs her hair to attack things the more naked she gets


so yeah i kinda thought it was at least very tongue in cheek


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## Roman (Jun 14, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> and no i haven't played gears of war or god of war, partly because of what stupid meatheads the characters looked like



Case in point


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## Karsh (Jun 14, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> >implying men are never whiny and emotional
> Fucking Vaan
> I want to punch him until he dies
> Otacon too, although he's cool when he's on the codec giving me instructions instead of pissing his pants



>Implying I was implying that at all
>implying I was implying there weren't whiny men in games

what I was making note of was how there's a general discourse going around that macho is balls to the wall awesome. It'll get you the fans which is what ultimately matters, despite whatever philosophy we talk.
I'm all for making things more realistic however, I'd be all over that bandwagon.

I dunno if Vaan was all that realistic, never met people who acted the way FFXII characters did, much less most characters in entertainment sources, even less so females.


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## Kind of a big deal (Jun 14, 2012)

Marcus Fenix has feelings too you know. He's always either depressed or angry. That's two, so it's plural. You guys are unfair to all the manly space marines out there.

If women don't like how they are portrayed in videogames, why don't they make games the way they want to? Videogames aren't so much an expression, they are more a result of giving the public what it wants.  It's marketing first, development second, and taking risks with new ideas third. That's just because there's so much investments and money going around in the business, nobody is willing to deviate from formulas that have proven to be profitable.

If so many women feel the way she does, surely there should be a market for games with different portrayals of women, and the games would inevitably be made? Doesn't that make the most sense in the world, ever?

And another thing, women may be sexualized in games, sure. But they're also kinda... how should I say... unrealistically strong. They're often given advantages to make them from a gameplay perspective, viable options compared to male characters. In all games. That's because balance in gameplay, especially in competitive games is so important.

If we should be totally honest with this whole portrayal of women deal, then there should be a fighting game where the female characters aren't stereotypes, but also they are physically inferior to the male characters, and nobody would pick them except as joke characters. I mean you never see heavyweight boxers actually fighting tiny schoolgirls in real life, right? Because they would get murderstomped. Probably in a single hit.
Would that really be better? A game that works like that? I don't think so. If anything it would be even more disheartening and damaging than what we have now, where women are sexualized but at least they kick ass.

The focus here is wrong, I think a game made by men, but aimed at women, like Cooking Mama is much more damaging to women than any generic action game catered at teenage boys.
Also, everybody knows the best cooks in the world are men, so there.


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## Mael (Jun 14, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> Well, they were trying to add depth to Samus's character. Like Master Chief, a soulless person in an astronaut suit who simply guns down everything in their way is appealing but not exactly an amazing character.
> 
> Unfortunately they entrusted it to Team Ninja. Worse, a Team Ninja without Itagaki.
> I mean, I don't think that added to the misogyny of the game. Team Ninja is known for DOA and it's bouncing boobs, but Hayabusa's ass bounces too and nobody in any of those games wears clothes that aren't skintight. But they're not exactly known for their depth.



I don't trust Japan at all with female progression...not at all.

Not saying the West is a paragon, but yeah...Japan.

But Nintendo has been slipping for a couple years already.

And with games and females?  The way I see it no one will ever be truly happy.  Display emotion?  Weak.  Display badassery?  Unrealistic?  Display romance?  DEPENDS ON MANZ AND INCAPABLE OF ALL THE WOMEN INDEPENDENT.


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## Bioness (Jun 14, 2012)

I wish we could make them pay for what they did to Samus 

I swear every game she gets more and more nude and sexual.


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## Blue (Jun 14, 2012)

> I do. they're stupid ways to value people. not that it's the end of the world, but yeah i think it's something worth addressing and being aware of


Well those two instinctively ingrained gender roles aren't something you can change. It's not just perception of one gender from the other; most men want to be strong, and most women want to be beautiful. 
It's fine in the eyes of most for men to be beautiful, as long as they're strong, and fine for women to be strong, as long as they're beautiful. Should men who only want to be beautiful and women who only want to be strong be ridiculed? No, that's one area where we can improve.

"Intelligent" "provider" and, debatably, "leader" are not ingrained gender roles, and that reflects in video games. You have shitty pandering stereotype characters of both genders, but the good characters have other positive traits to define them as well.




Karsh said:


> >Implying I was implying that at all
> >implying I was implying there weren't whiny men in games
> 
> what I was making note of was how there's a general discourse going around that macho is balls to the wall awesome. It'll get you the fans which is what ultimately matters, despite whatever philosophy we talk.
> I'm all for making things more realistic however, I'd be all over that bandwagon.


>implying no u

Well I don't think being macho is super awesome any more than I think women being constantly half naked is awesome. Which is to say I do think it's awesome, but without further character development it's terrible.


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## Toroxus (Jun 14, 2012)

It is such a breeder male world.


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## EJ (Jun 14, 2012)

Gears of War was actually a pretty good game. I didn't see anything wrong with the characters and how they were portrayed. They displayed a lot of emotion, they cried (when Dom's wife died, and when he killed himself), there was a guy who whined and complained about everything, etc.

People look too hard into these things. To say a lot of guys don't act like the way they were portrayed in GOW is straight up denial.


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## Mael (Jun 14, 2012)

Kind of a big deal said:


> Marcus Fenix has feelings too you know. He's always either depressed or angry. That's two, so it's plural. You guys are unfair to all the manly space marines out there.



There are three kinds of space marines you see nowadays.

1. Your Halo/Colonial Marines with some basic human emotions and honest-to-God attempts to fight against all odds.  Master Chief was a mute and then talking so it's unfair to expect him to get eloquent on us.  He's also the closest to human formed, just with regenerative armor and his weakness shows.

2. Marcus Fenix and Gears.  They overdid it with this and now we have Bulletstorm.  These are the worst of the worst because they sound like they swallowed sand and are built like fucking tanks without proper explanation while the women are literally half to a third their size with meager attempts to be JUST. LIKE. THEM.  Most responsible the the male stereotyping nowadays when Duke Nukem faded into obscurity.

3. Adeptus Astartes.  Literally walking tanks capable of levelling city blocks.  Don't show too much emotion and are also built absurdly large but created in a genre meant to be over the top.  Not very human because they literally aren't that normal human anymore.  But at least they don't act like they're continuously pissed, eat sandpaper, and have some good grace about them. 

This was repeated in good intentions with Adepta Sororitas, but fandom fucked that one over.



Flow said:


> Gears of War was actually a pretty good game. I didn't see anything wrong with the characters and how they were portrayed. They displayed a lot of emotion, they cried (when Dom's wife died, and when he killed himself), there was a guy who whined and complained about everything, etc.
> 
> People look too hard into these things. To say a lot of guys don't act like the way they were portrayed in GOW is straight up denial.



Eh...it became pretty damn two-dimensional when the third one rolled around.  Only Baird was likable because he was a smartass.


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## Deleted member 84471 (Jun 14, 2012)

I think gender stereotypes in video-games are quite obviously worse for girls than guys. It's because these sorts of games are mainly tailored for (young) male audiences. 

Just the same, entertainment tailored for female audiences will utilise whatever gender stereotypes they can for the same end. I'm fairly certain the men in "chick-lit" novels are not portrayed as characters that your average Joe can poignantly relate to. They're probably just as limited (not with the same limitations, obviously).

If someone wants to dissect video-games to raise awareness about female stereotypes and asks for private donations for help, there's no reason to oppose that - but raising awareness isn't going to change anything unless commercial realities change, e.g. just as many girls buy Street Fighter as boys. 

I think it's naive, and bordering on arrogant if you think that you can "enlighten" young males to "stop sexualising big tits" or whatever.


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## Karsh (Jun 14, 2012)

I have a truly hard time relating to females, which I suppose is part of why I hear things like "men as leading roles can be relatable to ALL as opposed to vice versa" 



Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> >implying no u
> 
> Well I don't think being macho is super awesome any more than I think women being constantly half naked is awesome. Which is to say I do think it's awesome, but without further character development it's terrible.



>more like implying I was bewildered by the interpetation is all 

If that mentality was more widespread, then perhaps admiring and aspiring to be macho and emotionless would seem a bit more silly and mayhap not have this issue


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## Blue (Jun 14, 2012)

> The focus here is wrong, I think a game made by men, but aimed at women, like Cooking Mama is much more damaging to women than any generic action game catered at teenage boys.
> Also, everybody knows the best cooks in the world are men, so there.


This is awesome. You are awesome.



Flow said:


> People look too hard into these things. To say a lot of guys don't act like the way they were portrayed in GOW is straight up denial.


I didn't mind it. I never got into Gears because I didn't like the gameplay really, but MF being a huge beef battleship didn't bother me. I'm just saying that he was a crappy pandering stereotype character.


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## EJ (Jun 14, 2012)

You know

Link from Legend of Zelda struck me as feminine. I thought Sheik was more masculine than him.


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## AfterGlow (Jun 14, 2012)

LOL @ anybody saying women's gender roles are worse than men's gender roles.

They are both idealized stereotypes that about 0,00000000000000000000000000000000000001% of the earths population can live up to thanks to a mix of genetics and luck, and the rest of the world, who doesn't fit 100% into the gender categories, are "abnormal" and should strive to become more like the unattainable stereotypes.

Women need to be pretty and thin, cry me a river.

Men need to be handsome, strong, thin but ripped, intelligent, charming, masculine without being too macho, able to show feelings but not too many feelings, while making a lot of money and having a prestigious job.

Being a "man" is soooo easy.


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## Bioness (Jun 14, 2012)

you know making up numbers like that, especially given how impossible those numbers are, makes your argument that much more convincing.


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## josh101 (Jun 14, 2012)

Flow said:


> You know
> 
> Link from Legend of Zelda struck me as feminine. I thought Sheik was more masculine than him.


Zelda's pretty feminine as well, I mean, he walks around talking to a fairy.


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## Draffut (Jun 14, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> I have literally never been mad at something on the internet before
> Literally never



I can't stop laughing at that pic.

Stupid internet trolls attack stupid internet feminazi so stupid internet forever alone's give her redicukous amounts of money.


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## AfterGlow (Jun 14, 2012)

Bioness said:


> you know making up numbers like that, especially given how impossible those numbers are, makes your argument that much more convincing.



It was to illustrate how utterly impossible it is for *anybody* to conform 100% to the stereotypical western gender roles which are pretty much parodies of themselves.


----------



## corsair (Jun 14, 2012)

120k+ 

Maybe I should try this too and make a study about objectivied men in videogames.


----------



## Roman (Jun 14, 2012)

Bioness said:


> you know making up numbers like that, especially given how impossible those numbers are, makes your argument that much more convincing.



His numbers are hypothetical to give an idea of how difficult it is for anyone, male or female, to fit the given stereotypes in games and other forms of entertainment. It's not like he went to a government statistics website and pulled the numbers out from there. Unless you're implying it's easier for men to fit the stereotypes? 

It's true that in a lot of respects, men have it easier (something I'm personally not very fond of), but that doesn't indicate how much easier it is for a man to be ripped and heroic 100% of the time.

The point he's trying to make is that media creates unrealistic expectations of both genders. That a woman should feel as though they're more heavily misrepresented is a little short-sighted as the fact men have it easier in life doesn't mean they can fit the stereotype alpha-male character type and fails to consider men can be just as easily misrepresented.

The core point is that it's a form of entertainment. Take it as that and nothing else. Obviously, almost nothing you see in a game will be realistic. Otherwise, we'd all be able to jump into hay bails from rooftops without risking serious injury.


----------



## Blue (Jun 14, 2012)

AfterGlow said:


> Men need to be handsome, strong, thin but ripped, intelligent, charming, masculine without being too macho, able to show feelings but not too many feelings, while making a lot of money and having a prestigious job.


This is me.

Well, "charming" is debatable, I'm kind of a jerk.

If you added "tall" I'd have to bow out. I'm only average. 



> I can't stop laughing at that pic.


FFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU


----------



## EJ (Jun 14, 2012)

josh101 said:


> Zelda's pretty feminine as well, I mean, he walks around talking to a fairy.



No...Zelda is the princess. Link is Link.


----------



## AfterGlow (Jun 14, 2012)

Freedan said:


> His numbers are hypothetical to give an idea of how difficult it is for anyone, male or female, to fit the given stereotypes...



...of Western society.



> The point he's trying to make is that media creates unrealistic expectations of both genders. That a woman should feel as though they're more heavily misrepresented is a little short-sighted as the fact men have it easier in life doesn't mean they can fit the stereotype alpha-male character type and fails to consider men can be just as easily misrepresented.



More or less.

Except men doesn't have it easier in life per se, men faces equally hard problems associated with gendered behavior as women do, they are just different.



Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> This is me.
> 
> Well, "charming" is debatable, I'm kind of a jerk.
> 
> If you added "tall" I'd have to bow out. I'm only average.



Fuck, I should have added tall, because that is one of the biggest fucking bogus demands men have on them.

Too bad you're below 180 centimeters, you're clearly not a real man.


----------



## josh101 (Jun 14, 2012)

Flow said:


> No...Zelda is the princess. Link is Link.





Don't be silly.


----------



## AfterGlow (Jun 14, 2012)

josh101 said:


> Don't be silly.


----------



## Roman (Jun 14, 2012)

Flow said:


> No...Zelda is the princess. Link is Link.


----------



## Roman (Jun 14, 2012)

AfterGlow said:


> ...of Western society.



Honestly, it's not much different in Eastern societies either. Tho tbh, and as you're probably well aware, this project would apply much better there than it does in the west.



AfterGlow said:


> More or less.
> 
> Except men doesn't have it easier in life per se, men faces equally hard problems associated with gendered behavior as women do, they are just different.



There's another side to the argument tho. While men can be misrepresented as easily, it doesn't happen quite as often. It happens, but more often than not, it's the female stereotype which is pushed forward. Interestingly, the main character in the vast majority of games is male, and most of them don't necessarily feature an alpha male: numerous characters have flaws of different kinds and I can think of quite a few off the top of my head. The women associated with them, on the other hand? They do tend to fit at least some of the stereotypes (damsel in distress, need to be protected, sexy sidekick).

While somewhat short-sighted, the one who made the project isn't coming out of nowhere considering women are misrepresented more often (just not more heavily at any one time).


----------



## EJ (Jun 14, 2012)

ITT:

People using over used memes towards the wrong people.


----------



## Blue (Jun 14, 2012)

And, you know, I was thinking about it - don't you think Metroid would be a better character if he had more realistic muscles? He's so skinny.

Anyway, so after Sark buys every video game ever and every system ever, commissions a solid gold Xbox and PS3, and bathes in the blood of an endangered species, do you think she'll donate the rest of the money to charity?

Anyone want to make any wagers on that?


----------



## Draffut (Jun 14, 2012)

corsair said:


> 120k+
> 
> Maybe I should try this too and make a study about objectivied men in videogames.



I was thinking the same thing.  I was building a boardgame to put up Kickstarter, but why do that when I can pretend to be a feminazi and make 2-3 years salary to play games.


----------



## EJ (Jun 14, 2012)

ITT: People think they are smart asses.


----------



## Madai (Jun 14, 2012)

Question:

Women get breast implants, the worldwide market for breast implants is roughly $820 million a year.  Singer Adele was so concerned about her body she wore 4 spairs of spanks to an awards show, and she had to take two pairs off so she could breathe enough to sing.

Is there a similarly sized, similarly degrading industry which preys exclusively on Men's insecurities??

If not, the reason why men's insecurities are not a problem is because we don't give a shit!


----------



## AfterGlow (Jun 14, 2012)

Freedan said:


> Honestly, it's not much different in Eastern societies either. Tho tbh, and as you're probably well aware, this project would apply much better there than it does in the west.



Gender roles look different in various types of the world, different cultures see male and female behavior in different ways, Asia is a bad example as they are heavily influenced by Western gender notions through globalization.

Hell, the current gender roles aren't even that old, pink used to be a male color and sewing/cooking was something macho men did. Take the traditional south american macho role; a man who has many children and is a loving father that supports his family. Not so macho in our culture though, more like some emotional pansy who cares about kids.

I could go on and even talk about how inherently flawed the two-gender system is, but I really don't feel like it.



> There's another side to the argument tho. While men can be misrepresented as easily, it doesn't happen quite as often. It happens, but more often than not, it's the female stereotype which is pushed forward. Interestingly, the main character in the vast majority of games is male, and most of them don't necessarily feature an alpha male: numerous characters have flaws of different kinds and I can think of quite a few off the top of my head. The women associated with them, on the other hand? They do tend to fit at least some of the stereotypes (damsel in distress, need to be protected, sexy sidekick).



It happens just as often, or no, it happens way more often with male characters than female characters, probably because the latter is much rarer in video games, limited to some roles on the side lines.

Males in video games, are either super macho and thus deemed as "cool", something the player should strive to be like, or they exhibit characteristics which are not cemented in their gender roles, and they get ridiculed.

Otacon and Raiden from the MGS are perfect examples, they aren't ?bermensch badasses and therefor they get ridiculed and laughed at.



Madai said:


> Is there a similarly sized, similarly degrading industry which preys exclusively on Men's insecurities??



Every and any industry that makes money selling a false self-image to somebody. The car industry comes to mind.


----------



## Draffut (Jun 14, 2012)

Madai said:


> Question:
> 
> Women get breast implants, the worldwide market for breast implants is roughly $820 million a year.  Singer Adele was so concerned about her body she wore 4 spairs of spanks to an awards show, and she had to take two pairs off so she could breathe enough to sing.
> 
> ...



The entire fitness industry?


----------



## drache (Jun 14, 2012)

well I guess that's  called troll karma

and yes there is sexism in games to an extent but it's worse in older games that said frankly I would agree that death threats and harassment should mean you lose your anonymity


----------



## corsair (Jun 14, 2012)

Madai said:


> Question:
> 
> Women get breast implants, the worldwide market for breast implants is roughly $820 million a year.  Singer Adele was so concerned about her body she wore 4 spairs of spanks to an awards show, and she had to take two pairs off so she could breathe enough to sing.
> 
> ...



Never got those penis enhancement mails?


----------



## Roman (Jun 14, 2012)

AfterGlow said:


> Gender roles look different in various types of the world, different cultures see male and female behavior in different ways, Asia is a bad example as they are heavily influenced by Western gender notions through globalization.



East Asia tended to have skewed ideas about gender roles long before Globalization. Just one look at pre-Meiji era Japan gives you a clear idea of ho misogynistic Asian countries could be. I don't think women were just as likely to get into a govt position as men were in China before the 19th/20th centuries either, and it was one of the first countries ever to establish a system of meritocracy.



AfterGlow said:


> Hell, the current gender roles aren't even that old, pink used to be a male color and sewing/cooking was something macho men did. Take the traditional south american macho role; a man who has many children and is a loving father that supports his family. Not so macho in our culture though, more like some emotional pansy who cares about kids.
> 
> I could go on and even talk about how inherently flawed the two-gender system is, but I really don't feel like it.



No arguments here.



AfterGlow said:


> It happens just as often, or no, it happens way more often with male characters than female characters, probably because the latter is much rarer in video games, limited to some roles on the side lines.
> 
> Males in video games, are either super macho and thus deemed as "cool", something the player should strive to be like, or they exhibit characteristics which are not cemented in their gender roles, and they get ridiculed.
> 
> Otacon and Raiden from the MGS are perfect examples, they aren't ?bermensch badasses and therefor they get ridiculed and laughed at.



Like I said, I can think of quite a number of games where the main character isn't the macho alpha-male, popular games which tend to be highly anticipated in E3 as well. It feels like it happens much more often because male characters are on the spotlight a lot more so they tend to get noticed. But that's one guy against an assortment of girls in the same game throughout many different games.

Sure, I won't deny that what you're saying applies to other forms of media, ESPECIALLY movies, but the project itself revolves around gaming.


----------



## ImperatorMortis (Jun 14, 2012)

This is pathetic.. 

I agree with Anita's points completely.




Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> I can't stop laughing at that pic.
> 
> Stupid internet trolls attack stupid internet feminazi so stupid internet forever alone's give her redicukous amounts of money.



So any woman that sticks up for her gender in anyway is a Feminazi?

This world makes me sick.


----------



## Blue (Jun 14, 2012)

ImperatorMortis said:


> So any woman that sticks up for her gender in anyway is a Feminazi?
> 
> This world makes me sick.


No, any woman who wants you to pay her to play video games is a con artist, preying on the stupid. You're making me a bit ill, too.


----------



## dream (Jun 14, 2012)

I'm surprised that she has attracted the amount of donations she has, probably the result of all the hate against her.


----------



## ImperatorMortis (Jun 14, 2012)

Madai said:


> Question:
> 
> If not, the reason why men's insecurities are not a problem is because we don't give a shit!



Dude what are you talking about? Men are plenty insecure as well.

1.GET BUFF RIGHT AWAY!!

2.Do women think you're too small? Take this supplement! You'll grow 5 inches or your money back!

Because men aren't insecure right?



Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> You're making me a bit ill, too.



I'm sure there's a supplement for that to.


----------



## God (Jun 14, 2012)

ImperatorMortis said:


> Dude what are you talking about? Men are plenty insecure as well.
> 
> 1.GET BUFF RIGHT AWAY!!
> 
> *2.Do women think you're too small? Take this supplement! You'll grow 5 inches or your money back!*



i've never heard or seen a guy anywhere in the vicinity of my personal life doing this

also lara croft says hi

these trolls are dipshits, they know nothing about society
by calling her out for being a whiny little cunt, they've effectively made her a martyr
completely counterproductive


----------



## Han Solo (Jun 14, 2012)

Eternal Goob said:


> I'm surprised that she has attracted the amount of donations she has, probably the result of all the hate against her.


----------



## ImperatorMortis (Jun 14, 2012)

Cubey said:


> completely counterproductive



Is it really productive to harass someone for standing up for what he/she believes in? 

Especially if that person could probably do some good? 

I honestly don't get why someone would feel the need to bother someone for something like this. 

Are they threatened? As I get older this world is making less, and less sense to me.


----------



## Blue (Jun 14, 2012)

> I honestly don't get why someone would feel the need to harass someone for something like this.


Because she's profiting massively off of it.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jun 14, 2012)

I can understand how this brand of "feminism" can get tiring, but that reaction is only helping her out.


----------



## Blue (Jun 14, 2012)

And to be clear I have not harassed her personally, nor do I encourage her harassment, for many reasons; not the least of which is the attention she's receiving from it.

She should be ignored and left to die alone with her cats.


----------



## ImperatorMortis (Jun 14, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> Because she's profiting massively off of it.



Um.. Okay? So what? Her goal is to use the funds to buy these games, get the information she needs, and explain her views to the public. 

Besides, this is a DONATION. Nobody is being forced to give her money, and the money she's getting, she's hopefully using to provide a service to people. 

PBS does this, and nobody cares. Multiple websites do this, and nobody cares. Especially if its for a cause they believe in, or a service they want.

Whats the difference between this, and that?


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jun 14, 2012)

You know this reminds me of a video I saw where some woman was going on about the sexism in promoting lego blocks to little boys.


----------



## Blue (Jun 14, 2012)

ImperatorMortis said:


> Um.. Okay? So what? Her goal is to use the funds to buy these games, get the information she needs, and explain her views to the public.
> 
> Besides, this is a DONATION. Nobody is being forced to give her money, and the money she's getting, she's hopefully using to provide a service to people.
> 
> PBS does this, and nobody cares. Multiple websites do this, and nobody cares. Especially if its for a cause they believe in, or a service they want.



It is a CON. There aren't enough video games in the world to spend over a hundred thousand dollars on, and there isn't a word processing computer to write her bullshit expensive enough to spend it on.

PBS is not a fucking con. PBS, as the name implies, is publicly accountable and spends every last dime on its programming and upkeep. 

And normally I wouldn't be asspained over it, but there is a legion of people like you defending this con artist and her _horribly flawed reasoning_ from legitimate criticism, dismissing anything against her as "misogynist trolling".


----------



## AfterGlow (Jun 14, 2012)

Freedan said:


> East Asia tended to have skewed ideas about gender roles long before Globalization. Just one look at pre-Meiji era Japan gives you a clear idea of ho misogynistic Asian countries could be. I don't think women were just as likely to get into a govt position as men were in China before the 19th/20th centuries either, and it was one of the first countries ever to establish a system of meritocracy.



Asia is bigger than Japan, but what you are forgetting is that it's also a question of class.

Men and women from the peasantry were more or less equal, in any nation, anywhere, while the ruling class had various rules and regulations attached to their genders.

Of course, there has always been the "control and trade of women", "i*c*st taboo" and such everywhere, but men and women were a lot more equal before modern western notions of gender roles came into play.




> Like I said, I can think of quite a number of games where the main character isn't the macho alpha-male, popular games which tend to be highly anticipated in E3 as well. It feels like it happens much more often because male characters are on the spotlight a lot more so they tend to get noticed. But that's one guy against an assortment of girls in the same game throughout many different games.
> 
> Sure, I won't deny that what you're saying applies to other forms of media, ESPECIALLY movies, but the project itself revolves around gaming.



Video games are created for and sold to men, there are thousands of games each year, there are bound to be a few of them which challenges the traditional gender roles which are supported by 99% of what's on the market.

Not that I know of any game which challenges the traditional gender roles by having its lead be a cross-dresser, or whatever.


----------



## Roman (Jun 14, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> It is a CON. There aren't enough video games in the world to spend over a hundred thousand dollars on, and there isn't a word processing computer to write her bullshit expensive enough to spend it on.



It's not as tho she asked for that much money. People gave it to her without being forced into it, and she was fortunate enough to receive more than what she was aiming for. She didn't make an exhaustive effort to raise that much money.


----------



## ImperatorMortis (Jun 14, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> It is a CON. There aren't enough video games in the world to spend over a hundred thousand dollars on, and there isn't a word processing computer to write her bullshit expensive enough to spend it on.
> 
> PBS is not a fucking con. PBS, as the name implies, is publicly accountable and spends every last dime on its programming and upkeep.



The way I see it its only a con if nothing good comes out of it, and that is something we have to wait and see. 

If she doesn't stick with her claims, and use the money she's gathering for her cause then I will concede that she's a con artist. But it may be too early to label her as something negative, OR positive. 

Atleast thats how I see it. 



Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> And normally I wouldn't be asspained over it, but there is a legion of people like you defending this con artist and her _horribly flawed reasoning_ from legitimate criticism, dismissing anything against her as "misogynist trolling".



Hey. Nobodies forcing you to read out posts. *shrug*




Narkissos said:


> I lol'd so hard. Stupid bitch should know her place.
> 
> Inb4*moralfags*.



Hi.


----------



## Blue (Jun 14, 2012)

Freedan said:


> It's not as tho she asked for that much money. People gave it to her without being forced into it, and she was fortunate enough to receive more than what she was aiming for. She didn't make an exhaustive effort to raise that much money.



Did you see her place in the video? Wood flooring, designer furniture, every vidya console there is?

Y'really think she needed that six grand?

_To buy video games?_


----------



## Draffut (Jun 14, 2012)

ImperatorMortis said:


> Um.. Okay? So what? Her goal is to use the funds to buy these games, get the information she needs, and explain her views to the public.
> 
> Besides, this is a DONATION. Nobody is being forced to give her money, and the money she's getting, she's hopefully using to provide a service to people.
> 
> ...



Becuase it's something everyone else has been able to do without sucking up $120,000 of donations.  people put up documentaries and research on Youtube without any problems.  Does she need 5k to advertise her page or something?

Hell she could do this realtime on twitch.tv and make money from it with advertisements and subscriptions, if it is actually worth anything.

As someone who follows Kickstarter (the donation program she is using) closely for products that supply things that actually take funding to make and provide real products and services, seeing this financial blackhole sucking up good money that could go to real projects is frustrating.

It's almost a scam.  I've been waiting for a real scam to hit this site (and others like it) for a while and to see how it blows up.  This could very well be it.  I wouldn't be completely suprised if she didn't start the internet trolling herself on 4chan and the like to create this surge of donations.  (Though even if she did, it probobly has gone much further than she anticipated.)


----------



## Madai (Jun 14, 2012)

corsair said:


> Never got those penis enhancement mails?



Who actually buys that crap?  Not many people.





> #2 Breast Augmentation
> 
> The surgical enlargement of women?s breasts has become enormously popular with over 350,000 procedures done every year in America.





> #5 Breast Reduction(for women)





> #8 Breast Lift



Yes, it's not enough breast augmentation is #2, two other breast modification surguries are on the list.  Reduction of course is not funny as it is often medically necessary.



> #10 Gynecomastia Treatment
> 
> Surgery to reduce excessive amounts of male breast tissue, a condition known as gynecomastia, is performed over twenty thousand times per year. The surgery is a permanent treatment for most men, as long as the increased amount of tissue is due to the person?s genetics.
> 
> Some men experience growth of their breasts after using steroids or marijuana habitually.



Obligatory "his name is Robert Paulson" here.

You'll note no surgeries touching a man's schlong are on the list, indeed, men are more likely to have their manboobs operated on.  But look at the scale:

350 Breast Implants(not counting breast lifts) vs 20,000 manboob surguries.

That's an order of magnitude.  Even if penis surgery is right behind those manboobs at 19,999/year, it's still an order of magnitude difference.


----------



## ImperatorMortis (Jun 14, 2012)

Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> Becuase it's something everyone else has been able to do without sucking up $120,000 of donations.  people put up documentaries and research on Youtube without any problems.  *Does she need 5k to advertise her page or something?*



Maybe not, but who cares. Like I said, people have the freedom to support who ever they want, however they want. If you don't want to give her money, that's more than fine. But whats the big deal if others want to support her in this way? 

I find it hard to believe that most people care that others are "throwing their money away". May its just a hint of jealousy that she's making money so easily?

I'm not saying you or anyone else in this thread is jealous, I'm just throwing that out there as one of the possible reasons for anger/loathing. 



Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> *I wouldn't be completely suprised if she didn't start the internet trolling herself on 4chan and the like to create this surge of donations.*  (Though even if she did, I doubt it would have gone as far as she anticipated.)



Bit of a stretch don't you think? But who knows? You may be right.

These things are possible.


----------



## Blue (Jun 14, 2012)

There are no surgeries available to increase penis size.


----------



## Sarry (Jun 14, 2012)

120,000$ in donations just play games and show that some kids online are idiots?
Damn..that's both sad and depressing.


----------



## Draffut (Jun 14, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> There are no surgeries available to increase penis size.



I would feel odd about doing such an internet search here at work, but as far as I know there are, they mentioned them on a few shows like Penn & Teller: Bullshit a while back.


----------



## ImperatorMortis (Jun 14, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> There are no surgeries available to increase penis size.



No but there are pills.

Also there's viagra(extremely popular).


----------



## Draffut (Jun 14, 2012)

ImperatorMortis said:


> Maybe not, but who cares. Like I said, people have the freedom to support who ever they want, however they want. If you don't want to give her money, that's more than fine. But whats the big deal if others want to support her in this way?



Except she is feeding off the sympathy for the vandalism, not actual donations for her product.

OF COURSE everyone is allowed to donate and support whoever they want.  That doesn't mean I have to accept or like it.  That's absurd.


----------



## Blue (Jun 14, 2012)

I stand corrected, there are no _safe _surgeries available.


----------



## AfterGlow (Jun 14, 2012)

Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> I would feel odd about doing such an internet search here at work, but as far as I know there are, they mentioned them on a few shows like Penn & Teller: Bullshit a while back.



Well, the operations usually just increase the look of the length by making the non-visible part of the penis visible.
So, you might look longer in the locker room, but the actual size hasn't increased, and there won't be any increase during erection.

Growers wanting to be Showers, pretty much.


----------



## ImperatorMortis (Jun 14, 2012)

Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> Except she is feeding off the sympathy for the vandalism, not actual donations for her product.



I don't think so.. Thats just a bonus. 



Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> That doesn't mean I have to accept or like it.  That's absurd.



Of course you don't, and I'm not saying you have to. 

I'm just arguing why I agree with her.


----------



## AfterGlow (Jun 14, 2012)

ImperatorMortis said:


> I'm just arguing why I agree with her.



You agree with her because you're too ignorant to separate her BS claim and her BS study from the perils of cyber bullying, and the fact that she is using kickstarter to CON people, while there are -REAL- projects that can actually help people if they get funded, but this degenerate feminazi is stealing focus and resources from them with her horse shit.


----------



## Draffut (Jun 14, 2012)

> I find it hard to believe that most people care that others are "throwing their money away". May its just a hint of jealousy that she's making money so easily?



I might be to a degree.  I am in the process of builing a demo for Kickstarter of a boardgame I made.  I don't plan on needing more than 5k-8k to create, produce, and ship the game to retailers across the US and some parts of Europe (Not counting hundreds to thousands of hours of my free time).

But why go through all that work when I could pretend to have a vagina and complain about sexism and make 100k+ while producing nothing of benefit to anyone ever?


----------



## Madai (Jun 14, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> I stand corrected, there are no _safe _surgeries available.



due to lack of demand.  

Breast enlargement isn't 100% safe either but they made it safe enough to be profitable because they knew exploiting woman's insecurities = $$$

No corresponding effort to bring penis enlargement into the 21st century has been made.  Instead, we've, lol, given new meaning to the term "snake" oil with these penis enlargement scams.


----------



## ImperatorMortis (Jun 14, 2012)

AfterGlow said:


> You agree with her because you're too ignorant to separate her BS claim and her BS study from the perils of cyber bullying,



If you say so. 



AfterGlow said:


> and the fact that she is using kickstarter to CON people, while *there are -REAL- projects that can actually help people if they get funded, *but this degenerate feminazi is stealing focus and resources from them with her horse shit.



Hey. If the people who donated actually cared about those "real projects" I'm sure they would have donated to them. Or who knows?

Maybe they already have? 

Heh, but like I said before who cares? She's not forcing anyone to support her so I fail to see why shits should be given. 

Plus there are worse, much worse things for people to use their money on.




Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> I might be to a degree.  I am in the process of builing a demo for Kickstarter of a boardgame I made.  I don't plan on needing more than 5k-8k to create, produce, and ship the game to retailers across the US and some parts of Europe (Not counting hundreds to thousands of hours of my free time).
> 
> *But why go through all that work when I could pretend to have a vagina and complain about sexism and make 100k+ while producing nothing of benefit to anyone ever?*



Go ahead. You don't see me stopping you.

But seriously though, good luck with your game.


----------



## AfterGlow (Jun 14, 2012)

ImperatorMortis said:


> Hey. If the people who donated actually cared about those "real projects" I'm sure they would have donated to them. Or who knows?



Maybe they'd care if they weren't conned into giving money to a con artist because they feel sorry for her being cyber-bullied, instead of wanting to support her because her project has some merit?



> Heh, but like I said before who cares? She's not forcing anyone to support her so I fail to see why shits should be given.



Con artist taking advantage of service created to help fund actual projects that can benefit people by invoking shit-storm on 4chan so she can dupe people into feeling sorry for her and that they are supporting free speech or whatever BS by donating money?

Yeah, I can see why nobody should care about this.



> Plus there are worse, much worse things for people to use their money on.



Two wrongs don't make a right.


----------



## ImperatorMortis (Jun 14, 2012)

AfterGlow said:


> Maybe they'd care if they weren't conned into giving money to a con artist because they feel sorry for her being cyber-bullied, instead of wanting to support her because her project has some merit?



I'm sure these real charities existed before this fiasco correct? What was stopping them from donating then? 



AfterGlow said:


> Con artist taking advantage of service created to help fund actual projects that can benefit people by invoking shit-storm on 4chan so she can dupe people into feeling sorry for her and that they are supporting free speech or whatever BS by donating money?
> 
> Yeah, I can see why nobody should care about this.



How does this not benefit people? Maybe her videos(if she makes them), and this publicity will actually help some women out? 

Maybe she actually has a lot of great points that she's willing to share?

Maybe some women, and/or men would actually enjoy seeing her videos?

If any of these things are fulfilled I can see how it would benefit people. 



AfterGlow said:


> Two wrongs don't make a right.



Well I don't see this as wrong.


----------



## Stalin (Jun 14, 2012)

She isn't a just a gamer, shes runs a series of videos discussing the portrayal of women in Movies,comics, and tv as well.


----------



## Roman (Jun 14, 2012)

AfterGlow said:


> Asia is bigger than Japan, but what you are forgetting is that it's also a question of class.



Nvm the fact I mentioned China. Sure, I know Asia isn't Japan, I'm just giving one example.



AfterGlow said:


> Men and women from the peasantry were more or less equal, in any nation, anywhere, while the ruling class had various rules and regulations attached to their genders.
> 
> Of course, there has always been the "control and trade of women", "i*c*st taboo" and such everywhere, but men and women were a lot more equal before modern western notions of gender roles came into play.



Sure, I'm not denying that, but you have to acknowledge that modern gender roles didn't come out of nowhere. Women have historically been misrepresented practically ever since the beginning of time. We didn't just decide gender roles were important around the 19th century or something along those lines.



AfterGlow said:


> Video games are created for and sold to men, there are thousands of games each year, there are bound to be a few of them which challenges the traditional gender roles which are supported by 99% of what's on the market.
> 
> Not that I know of any game which challenges the traditional gender roles by having its lead be a cross-dresser, or whatever.



How do you define a character that challenges gender roles? Is the stereotype of a man one that doesn't have any flaws, is the strongest man alive and virtually invincible? Many best-selling games have had lead male characters with numerous flaws. Some examples of this are Altair (Assassin's Creed), Starkiller (Force Unleashed), Prince (Prince of Persia), Snake (Metal Gear Solid), Jin Kazama (Tekken), Max Payne, Kyle Katarn (Dark Forces/Jedi Outcast), Shepard (Mass Effect) and I'm pretty certain there's quite a few more out there but I haven't played enough games to speak for every and all male characters. If you look carefully at any one I mentioned, you'll see they all have some character flaw or imperfection, which is exactly what makes them relatable to so many.


----------



## EJ (Jun 14, 2012)

What the hell are you guys even arguing about?

To deny there are gender stereotypes in video games is fucking stupid.


----------



## Blue (Jun 14, 2012)

Flow said:


> What the hell are you guys even arguing about?
> 
> To deny there are gender stereotypes in video games is fucking stupid.



Yeah, they're just not misogynist specifically or particularly harmful.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jun 14, 2012)

Stalin said:


> She isn't a just a gamer, shes runs a series of videos discussing the portrayal of women in Movies,comics, and tv as well.



Yeah, I was unfortunately shown one of her videos and she IMO just gives the concept of feminism that bad image it really doesn't need. She is that very woman that went on about the sexism of Lego blocks...


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## Bleach (Jun 14, 2012)

Wow she got a shit ton of money...


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## EJ (Jun 14, 2012)

Then you have those characters who run around the battlefield in bras and panties with a huge trench coat over and some stylized boots.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Jun 14, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> Yeah, they're just not misogynist specifically or particularly harmful.



Other M says hi


----------



## ImperatorMortis (Jun 14, 2012)

Flow said:


> Then you have those characters who run around the battlefield in bras and panties with a huge trench coat over and some stylized boots.


----------



## Stalin (Jun 14, 2012)

Its not harmful, but there is a lot of sexual exploitation of women, which I agree isnt a inherently bad thing, can at times truly misogynistic. Btw, Bayonetta would be a good example of sexual exploitation thats not so bad since the main character is sexually domineering woman who is very powerful.

Bad sexual exploitation can also damage the reputation of gamers in general by outsiders who don't play games. It enforces the stereotype that gamers are immature manchildren.


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## EJ (Jun 14, 2012)

I'm sure it doesn't enforce something negative.

Nope, not at all.


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## Shock Therapy (Jun 14, 2012)

goddamn 123k. morons be fueling her bank account


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## Draffut (Jun 14, 2012)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Yeah, I was unfortunately shown one of her videos and she IMO just gives the concept of feminism that bad image it really doesn't need. She is that very woman that went on about the sexism of Lego blocks...



Wait, seriously?

She's like some kind of uber-turbo-feminazi.


----------



## josh101 (Jun 14, 2012)

She's a smart women, you have to be to con that many people out of that much money, I wouldn't be surprised if she started this troll campaign against herself.


----------



## stream (Jun 14, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> I have literally never been mad at something on the internet before
> Literally never



You're just jealous  why hate people who are successful?


----------



## Blue (Jun 14, 2012)

stream said:


> You're just jealous  why hate people who are successful?



I had more than... *checks*

129,000 dollars before I was 18. Not that I earned it, but yeah. 

I did, later on, earn my own way. It involved a year and a half of red ink, stress, hair-pulling, and anxiety attacks, but I had doubled up when I got out.

Am I jealous that she did this well with basically no work at all? No, not really. Not since it involves her being a con artist fuck. I couldn't deal with having taken that much money from the stupid. I'd love to invent something useful, patent it, and watch the money roll in, but life isn't usually that awesome.


----------



## Bringer (Jun 14, 2012)

For a game lollipop chainsaw is a perfect example.

You get to play as a skimpy cheerleader with a chainsaw who fights zombies. The blood is pink in the game and when you kill zombies its very colorful and rainbows.

But......you get an achievement for looking up her skirt? Really? Are they serious.


----------



## kazuri (Jun 14, 2012)

I'll stop playing video games with hot naked pixely women when I can watch a show on LMN that isnt about men raping killing or kidnapping women.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Jun 14, 2012)

Can't believe people gave this bitch money to read TV Tropes pages to them.


----------



## Zenith (Jun 14, 2012)

I don't know if I have to be mad at the ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) with no life who actually take their time to go all the way to threaten someone to death over basically nothing or get mad at the cunt who's capitalizing on the situation

The capitalist  extremist in me is daintily commending her for her gold digging adeptness

I guess I need to start exploiting the pigmentation of my skin more

120 grands?

2 years and a half worth of work

*Ponders on ways to step up his game*


----------



## Mintaka (Jun 14, 2012)

What a bunch of idiocy.

It doesn't help that now she may cause an even larger problem for all of us by invoking these people to go after her, all because of this obviously baised little study.

She doesn't even have a point on this cyber bullying.  Yes women are bullied pretty badly, but so are gay people as well as some minorities.


----------



## Jello Biafra (Jun 14, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> I have never heard a more pandering, facetious, intellectually dishonest or ignorant pitch in my life than from this ridiculous bint, hell-bent on exploiting feminism and the _actual_ issues it was fomented to address to get a bunch of schmucks to pay her over $80,000 to _play video games all day_.


Then you haven't been paying very much attention.


Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> Everything she implies is either blatantly untrue, utterly out of context, or applies equally to male characters.


Yeah, sure. Women either get to be disposable plot devices, or men in women's bodies in video games as a whole. Whereas male characters a whole are male power fantasies. 

Grow up.


Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> I support women's rights wholeheartely. I'm not fond of feminism, as it's a more extreme form of women's rights that usually seeks to upend gender rights and disenfranchise men while keeping discrimination that serves women, but both women's rights and feminism are real movements dedicated to addressing real problems in society.
> 
> This is not a real problem and implying it is opens up a lot of cans best sealed.


If you don't support feminism, you don't support women's rights, period. 

So tell me, how is a media study of sexism in media something so worthy of getting into this kind of a butthurt rage over? You truly believe what you say you do about women's rights, then you really have nothing to fear. Write your own book about sexism towards males in video games if you want. But don't go all fuckrage because someone decided to study a phenomenon. Because that's retarded.


----------



## ShadowReij (Jun 14, 2012)

I guess people never heard of the word "debate".


----------



## GRIMMM (Jun 14, 2012)

Fucking hell this is retarded.

Its obvious they've gave the woman a stage to stand on by bringing attention to her stupid study. I can't believe she is getting $120k, fuck my life.


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Jun 14, 2012)

many young males who play video games in the first place probably enjoy the male stereo types in them. Regardless, there is a big difference between constant and consistent portrayals with power and those without. Women get the latter. As such, they have right to be angrier when it comes to video game hijinxs. That is simple accurate truth. :
Also, trolls....


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Jun 14, 2012)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Yeah, I was unfortunately shown one of her videos and she IMO just gives the concept of feminism that bad image it really doesn't need. She is that very woman that went on about the sexism of Lego blocks...


I've got to see this to believe this 



First Tsurugi said:


> Can't believe people gave this bitch money to read TV Tropes pages to them.


this women, is just


----------



## Orochimaru (Jun 14, 2012)

Wow, she gets paid 6 figures to troll 90% of everyone on the internet. That's awesome in a very fucked up kinda way.


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Jun 14, 2012)

Come on, it can't be that bad. 



> You'll be pleased to know that Anita Sarkeesian's Kickstarter project has gained 2,301 backers and a total of $55,671 at the time of writing. It's more than enough for her to make a whole series of shows about tropes and women in games, and luckily, she still plans to do so despite all the abuse.



Meh, who cares? They can spend their money how they want, it won't change anything in video games. Men are still going to be handsome, suave and have more guns and bravery than brains. Women are still going to be pretty little things who occasionally get to show some type of depth. That's the formula and until it stops making money, it isn't changing.

If you want well written women and men who defy stereotypes, read good books.


----------



## jklsemicolon (Jun 14, 2012)

Jello Biafra said:


> Yeah, sure. Women either get to be disposable plot devices, or men in women's bodies in video games as a whole. Whereas male characters a whole are male power fantasies.
> 
> Grow up.


You think _women_ are the disposable gender in video games? _Seriously_? Have you ever played a video game in your life? Let me help you out, watch  and see if you can figure out which gender is the disposable one.



> If you don't support feminism, you don't support women's rights, period.


Wrong. Feminism requires patriarchy theory, which you don't need to subscribe to in order to support women's rights.


----------



## Blue (Jun 14, 2012)

Jello Biafra said:


> Then you haven't been paying very much attention.
> 
> Yeah, sure. Women either get to be disposable plot devices, or men in women's bodies in video games as a whole. Whereas male characters a whole are male power fantasies.


I hate to be the one to break this to you, love, but male and female characters in video games and... this is important, pay attention - _culture as a whole_ - aren't representative of male fantasies, on either the gamemakers' or players' parts; they're representative of instinctive gender roles as they are applied by both men and women to themselves. I doubt you read through this whole thread, so I'll restate earlier points for you: 

Strength is valued in men and beauty is valued in women. This is reinforced by the genders themselves; you only need to look at how much makeup Sark is wearing in her video to see how pervasive this is. A man can be beautiful as long as he's strong, and a woman strong as long as she's beautiful. 

Intellect, leadership, and capability are entirely separate from those two ingrained roles, and characters (and real people) of either gender can and do show them in spades, or not at all.

While I do think that discrimination against men who embrace beauty over strength and women who embrace strength over beauty is worthy of attention, I don't see the problem with people being allowed to embrace traditional gender roles without ridicule. Women should be allowed to wear makeup without comments about their objectifying themselves, and men should be allowed to lift weights without comments about compensating for small penises.



> Grow up.


Blow me.



> If you don't support feminism, you don't support women's rights, period.


That's just total bullshit. There are a dozen women's rights authors who pointedly don't identify with feminism, and I'm firmly in their camp. Women's rights is an ongoing effort to prevent patriarchal mores from re-entrenching in the collective consciousness, but the idea, for instance, that fathers are inherently less capable of assuming custody of a child in a divorce is the sort of thought that cannot be associated with.
And the thought that sexualization of women in media is misogyny is another. The media by its very nature sexualizes all of its exemplars; just because sexualized males aren't usually naked doesn't mean that they're respected more or less.
Neither is such idealization bad.



> So tell me, how is a media study of sexism in media something so worthy of getting into this kind of a butthurt rage over?


It's not, but this bitch conning thousands of people out of hundreds of thousands of dollars so she can play video games all day is certainly worthy of rage.


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Jun 14, 2012)

Jello's points can't be disregarded. Let's be honest, if we were women, this might feel different. Even though virtually every male protagonist in games is good looking and fit, they usually have other qualities that make them exceptional. Usually related to mental qualities like quick thinking, wit or pure intelligence. Women are almost always going to contribute value to the story from their sexual qualities, and usually don't have this type of mental quality. And they are almost always objects (save me!), whereas the males are dynamically active (I will do this heroic thing and save you in super clever fashion). Or if they are not so obviously poorly written, they are just men with boobs. 

Unfortunately the world is accepting of this arrangement. Higher minded women like Jello are different probably because she cannot relate to the women in these games and doesn't want to be viewed as a sexual object. Kids play these games after all, one could view this as ingraining traditional roles for men and women. Unfortunately for women who don't like this arrangement, the vast majority of women and men from all backgrounds seem very accepting of it, even comfortable in their respective roles. 

More well-written women in fiction would help this a lot more than a $100k production pointing out the tropes. Many of us know they exist, the cure is for writers to blend dynamic women with fiction that will be popular. Game of Thrones and Dragon Tattoo series are examples of blending the popular with interesting female characters who are active rather than objects. It just isn't easy to write that well, so most authors will fall back on the tropes.


----------



## Jello Biafra (Jun 14, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> I hate to be the one to break this to you, love, but male and female characters in video games and... this is important, pay attention - _culture as a whole_ - aren't representative of male fantasies, on either the gamemakers' or players' parts; they're representative of instinctive gender roles as they are applied by both men and women to themselves. I doubt you read through this whole thread, so I'll restate earlier points for you:


That's a pretty ridiculous assertion, since most male video game protagonists are either faceless, nameless player surrogates, or otherwise have a pretty empty personality to allow the player to put themselves into the role. This is most explicit in RPGs. 

Are other male characters representative of gender roles? Certainly. But a lot of video game companies have pretty strongly failed at making female characters seem liek real people, something they have had a much better track record on with male characters. I'll elaborate further in comment to your next paragraph.


Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> Strength is valued in men and beauty is valued in women. This is reinforced by the genders themselves; you only need to look at how much makeup Sark is wearing in her video to see how pervasive this is. A man can be beautiful as long as he's strong, and a woman strong as long as she's beautiful.
> 
> Intellect, leadership, and capability are entirely separate from those two ingrained roles, and characters (and real people) of either gender can and do show them in spades, or not at all.


But here's the problem: male characters in a lot of video games are more likely to be a well rounded character than women. Female love interests in a lot of video games, for example, are often just plot devices. Protecting them, or saving them, is all that they're really there for. Or, perhaps even worse, there is a disturbing tendency for the more fleshed out ones to feel like a guy with tits trying to behave the way his ideal woman would behave. Which is a caricature. It's somewhat understandable, given the male prepoderance in writers, but there are also many male writers across media that can write decent female characters. 

Video games tend to lag behind though. Highlighting this problem, like this lady plans to do with her video series, isn't something to rage over. 

This isn't a problem unique to video games, and in some ways I think video games are a bit better about this than comic books, for example. But as a whole, I'd be more inclined to accept your arguments if it wasn't a nigh universal requirement that female video game characters be universally attractive buxom and young, wearing often ridiculous outfits like chainmail bikinis, or outfits that expose way more skin than is sensible for someone who is say, going to be running around and beating up bad guys. 

This was what was refreshing about femshep in Mass Effect: she was an obvious after thought, so she acted like a rounded, three dimensional character. She wasn't stuck in fetish gear, or hypersexualized. 


Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> While I do think that discrimination against men who embrace beauty over strength and women who embrace strength over beauty is worthy of attention, I don't see the problem with people being allowed to embrace traditional gender roles without ridicule. Women should be allowed to wear makeup without comments about their objectifying themselves, and men should be allowed to lift weights without comments about compensating for small penises.


The primary barrier to this is the unrealistic expectations cultivated by media. They not only deny diversity, they end up breeding resentment towards the "desired" norm from those who can't fit it. 


Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> That's just total bullshit. There are a dozen women's rights authors who pointedly don't identify with feminism, and I'm firmly in their camp. Women's rights is an ongoing effort to prevent patriarchal mores from re-entrenching in the collective consciousness, but the idea, for instance, that fathers are inherently less capable of assuming custody of a child in a divorce is the sort of thought that cannot be associated with.


Whether they identify with it or not, they are feminists. The definition of feminism is the philosophy seeking the equality of rights and privileges between sexes, and the end of coercive gender norms. Those who don't identify with the label due so mostly because the label has been poisoned, sometimes by the more extreme, self-defeating types who embraced, but also due to deliberate attempts by reactionaries to poison the well. 

Insinuating that fathers are inherently less capable of custody is an anti-feminist position at its core, and any so-called feminist who says that is pretty bad at being a feminist. 


Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> And the thought that sexualization of women in media is misogyny is another. The media by its very nature sexualizes all of its exemplars; just because sexualized males aren't usually naked doesn't mean that they're respected more or less.
> Neither is such idealization bad.


It is not the sexualization of women. It is the fact that women in media are not taken seriously unless they are already hypersexualized. Gruff, unsexy male protagonists are fairly accepted. It's very, very rare that you find female protagonists who aren't buxom, hypersexualized beauties. 


Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> It's not, but this bitch conning thousands of people out of hundreds of thousands of dollars so she can play video games all day is certainly worthy of rage.


She's making a product. It's a series of videos, which will be freely available when done. The massive outpouring of support she's gotten has been largely due to the trolling reaction by the worst the internet has to offer. If you want to blame anyone for her getting much more than she asked for ($6K for materials and labor costs), than blame the trolls.


----------



## kazuri (Jun 14, 2012)

Im sure if homosexuality was more popular/accepted there would be video games of men saving other half dressed men.


Somehow I bet this feminist isnt crusading against romance novels.



> Gruff, unsexy male protagonists are fairly accepted. It's very, very rare that you find female protagonists who aren't buxom, hypersexualized beauties.



Straight men who play these games far more than women dont care if the men arent sexy? You dont say...


----------



## jklsemicolon (Jun 14, 2012)

> Whether they identify with it or not, they are feminists. The definition of feminism is the philosophy seeking the equality of rights and privileges between sexes, and the end of coercive gender norms.


Still struggling with basic definitions, I see. Keep going, it's amazing reading material.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Jun 14, 2012)

> Somehow I bet this feminist isnt crusading against romance novels.



Course not, she's crusading against video games


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Jun 14, 2012)

jklsemicolon said:


> Still struggling with basic definitions, I see. Keep going, it's amazing reading material.



There is no standard definition of a feminist. Each feminist can have their own beliefs about who is a feminist. 

Feminism isn't a label like Republican. The unifying belief of feminists is equality and fairness between the sexes.


----------



## Gaawa-chan (Jun 14, 2012)

FOR FUCK'S SAKE FELLOW GAMERS.

THIS IS NOT MAKING US LOOK GOOD.

WE HAVE ENOUGH PR PROBLEMS AS IT IS.

*GROW THE FUCK UP.*


----------



## sparkykandy (Jun 14, 2012)

You know what bugs me when I play video games?  The overly sexy/skimpy outfits that the female characters wear, especially in situations where it doesn't make any sense.

Anyways, I don't get why people are raging over the sheer amount of money that this lady has raised.  Especially when I'm sure that the brony community has raised plenty of money for non-charity projects.


----------



## jklsemicolon (Jun 14, 2012)

Shinigami Perv said:


> There is no standard definition of a feminist. Each feminist can have their own beliefs about who is a feminist.


There very much is a standard definition: someone who subscribes to patriarchy theory, and wants to change it. I'm sure they can have their own beliefs, but those beliefs can be wrong.



> Feminism isn't a label like Republican. The unifying belief of feminists is equality and fairness between the sexes.


Well no, it's not like republican. Republican means you belong to a party. Feminist means you subscribe to an ideology. But it's an ideology like any other. Just like you can believe in workers' rights without being a socialist, you can believe in women's rights without being a feminist. Because there are more things than just those as-general-as-possible goals that define an ideology. In the case of feminism, it's patriarchy theory.


----------



## Blue (Jun 14, 2012)

I'm not going to point-by-point you Jello, because besides being tedious and droll, I don't entirely disagree with you on some of what you said.

However, the general jist of your response is that while women and men are both objectified and portrayed negatively, this is more common among female characters - which I simply don't agree with. Your reasoning is entirely subjective; 
"they are more likely"
"tend to"
"tendency to"

You bring up the supporting girlfriend characters, but fail to address the male characters who are only there to die violently. 

You characterize strong female characters with masculine traits as "guys with tits" which honestly is at least as offensive as anything else said in this thread.

And you claim that sexualization of female characters isn't the problem, but then rail against





> a nigh universal requirement that female video game characters be universally attractive buxom and young, wearing often ridiculous outfits like chainmail bikinis, or outfits that expose way more skin than is sensible


Yes, most female video game characters are attractive, because nobody, least of all women, wants to play as a dumpy office lady, with the exception of games that put a high premium on realism, in which case you're likely to find a fat black man among the playable characters as well.
(Aside: Minorities have MUCH more to complain about than either gender).

And it's funny you should bring up femshep, because I don't know a single female player who didn't spend an hour making her look as attractive as possible. I certainly did. 
You say 


> Gruff, unsexy male protagonists are fairly accepted


, but miss my point that "unsexy" men are the norm, because strength represents the sexualization of men. Male characters who are beautiful as well as strong - Dante, for instance - are not pervasive because for a male character, beauty is simply another detail in their design. Strength is the foundation, as Beauty is the foundation for women. Examine, for instance, Nariko of Heavenly Blade fame, for whom strength is a supporting trait and being a hot redhead in a bathrobe is primary.

All in all, your opinions are all over the place and look to me like desperate flailing for relevance.  And I submit to you that there is almost none to be found here. Any trends towards objectification are present in mass media as a whole and as a matter of course absolutely must be addressed in that larger context before focusing on video games, which contrary to your claims are quite ahead of the curve in gender equality in fiction. Despite Shinigami's delusions, you will find very few female main protagonists in (popular) literature or cinema. 
Fem protags are definitely not as common as male protags in vidya - which I propose is a function of the intended audience, not misogynist culture - but they're much more common.



> She's making a product. It's a series of videos, which will be freely available when done. The massive outpouring of support she's gotten has been largely due to the trolling reaction by the worst the internet has to offer. If you want to blame anyone for her getting much more than she asked for ($6K for materials and labor costs), than blame the trolls.


Take a look at her apartment. Designer furniture, wood flooring, and every game console there is.

You really think she needed that 6k?

_To buy video games?_

I'm doing a research project on prostitutes, would you like to fund that?



> Unfortunately the world is accepting of this arrangement. Higher minded women like Jello are different probably because she cannot relate to the women in these games and doesn't want to be viewed as a sexual object.


I think I'm a better high-minded woman than Jello. 
But that's just my opinion.


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Jun 14, 2012)

jklsemicolon said:


> , you can believe in women's rights without being a feminist.



That's fine. You don't have to be associated with the feminist movement to believe in that. It's just an idea that feminists believe unites them.




> There very much is a standard definition: someone who subscribes to patriarchy theory



This is simply not true.



Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> I think I'm a better high-minded woman than Jello.
> But that's just my opinion.




Sorry. It wasn't meant as an insult to imply people who believe otherwise are lower minded. I can't find a good word for it without sounding condescending.


----------



## jklsemicolon (Jun 14, 2012)

Shinigami Perv said:


> This is simply not true.


It simply is. It is as central to feminism as the belief in original sin is to Christianity. You *cannot* be a feminist without believing in it.


----------



## Golden Circle (Jun 14, 2012)

Grown men being immature on the internet in the name of "maturity". Big surprise here.

Kunoichi no Kiri, I have nothing against you at all. But do please stop calling the girl in the story a prostitute and what not. It doesn't look good.


----------



## Jello Biafra (Jun 14, 2012)

jklsemicolon said:


> It simply is. It is as central to feminism as the belief in original sin is to Christianity. You *cannot* be a feminist without believing in it.


False. Patriarchy "theory" if you can call it that, is only common among certain groups of radical feminists. Other feminist schools have no use for it, or actively oppose it.


----------



## josh101 (Jun 14, 2012)

Rainbow Dash said:


> Grown men being immature on the internet in the name of "maturity". Big surprise here.
> 
> Kunoichi no Kiri, I have nothing against you at all. But do please stop calling the girl in the story a prostitute and what not. It doesn't look good.



She might as well be. At least with a prostitute you get some pleasure from getting fucked out of money.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jun 14, 2012)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> I've got to see this to believe this
> 
> this women, is just




*Spoiler*: _These are long_ 



[YOUTUBE]CrmRxGLn0Bk[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]oe65EGkB9kA[/YOUTUBE]




It's really ridiculous, as she seems to have a history of this, I really do not like the kind of feminism that she represents and I think she does a massive disservice to rational feminism.


----------



## HolyHands (Jun 14, 2012)

I honestly don't like the videos that this woman makes, since they're really nothing more than listing off things you could find by spending 2 minutes on TvTropes. It's practically a scam how she's making $100,000+ out of this, especially since Kickstarter from what I hear is strongly against "fund-my-life" projects. She sure as fuck better donate every cent of that to charity.

At the same time however, the internet community was idiotic by responding to her by trolling. I know it's an internet "tradition" to be an asshat if there's someone you don't like, but using it against a femnazi is the worst possible target since it only gives them more ammo to use against "The Evil Patriarchy". And you can tell that 4chan was the cause of it too... bunch of idiots.


----------



## Draffut (Jun 14, 2012)

Jello Biafra said:


> If you don't support feminism, you don't support women's rights, period.



Wait, that's not a serious statement right?


----------



## Draffut (Jun 14, 2012)

My favorite part is how horribly broad most of the catagories are.

"The Sexy Villainess"

So if a female villian is sexy, it's some anti-femanist trope?  Oh but wait, lets look at anouther one!

"Unattractive Equals Evil"

Oh, so if they are ugly, it's a horrible anti-women trope.  And if they are sexy it's a horrible anti-women trope.

I guess every women has to look like the exact same average looking person to not be attacking women everywhere!

This is the bullshit coming out of your modern femanazi's people.

And it takes $6,000 to do this groundbreaking research.


----------



## Blue (Jun 14, 2012)

Rainbow Dash said:


> Kunoichi no Kiri, I have nothing against you at all. But do please stop calling the girl in the story a prostitute and what not. It doesn't look good.


I called her a con artist, not a prostitute. 

Lrn2read.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Jun 14, 2012)

$136,525
PLEDGED OF $6,000 GOAL

do i need to go on?



HolyHands said:


> I honestly don't like the videos that this woman makes, since they're really nothing more than listing off things you could find by spending 2 minutes on TvTropes. It's practically a scam how she's making $100,000+ out of this, especially since Kickstarter from what I hear is strongly against "fund-my-life" projects. She sure as fuck better donate every cent of that to charity.
> 
> *At the same time however, the internet community was idiotic by responding to her by trolling. I know it's an internet "tradition" to be an asshat if there's someone you don't like, but using it against a femnazi is the worst possible target since it only gives them more ammo to use against "The Evil Patriarchy". And you can tell that 4chan was the cause of it too... bunch of idiots*.



willing to bet that that's something she wanted


----------



## Palpatine (Jun 14, 2012)

Sexism in video games?

News to me


----------



## Draffut (Jun 14, 2012)

So, reading through all these 'sexist' tropes, I am trying to identify a character who would even be possible to create in a video game without falling into one of them outside of like a Sim's game.

Everyone of those categories are so horribly broad you would need like George R. R. Martin level of characterization to escape their expansive reach.  Something you basically never even see in video games of ANY character.


----------



## Blue (Jun 14, 2012)

> Tropes vs. Women: #1 The Manic Pixie Dream Girl
> March 24, 2011
> This is the first of a six part series created for Bitch Magazine.



For what magazine now...?


----------



## Palpatine (Jun 14, 2012)

> Bitch Magazine


----------



## Revolution (Jun 14, 2012)

E said:


> that wikipedia page :rofl



My reaction.  

Still, this shows sexism exists


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Jun 14, 2012)

Bitch Magazine?


----------



## Gino (Jun 14, 2012)

The internet and the people in it are a colossal fail case in point this situation and how it played out between this and the Gaf thread plus the lora croft threads I don't know what's worse.They all left my mind full of fuck.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jun 14, 2012)

Shinigami Perv said:


> Bitch Magazine?



Even if the folks are trying to be clever, they fail hard.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Jun 15, 2012)

so is this women married, this may sound quite degrading and insulting towards her but I'm truly curious to see if there is a man out there who can survive her, because if there is 

so I saw the video on her channel and I asked for corroboration because someone working for a magazine with a degrading name for women is crying foul about sexism and I still in disbelief and funnily enough apparently need her approval to post it, hopefully she sees it an answers me corroborating/ or denying this fact and is not put off by my youtube account name (sickofu)


Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> For what magazine now...?


it all makes sense now


my face there


----------



## Descent of the Lion (Jun 15, 2012)

Aren't men objectified all the time? We're traditionally the disposable army ants expected to sacrifice our spot on the lifeboat and dole out financial resources like a Duracell. Punch a woman in the face and then punch a man, and get all the evidence you need. Women, at least in the west, are valued. Treated right? Maybe not, but valued none the less. 


The female image is sexualized more, but that because men are visual. As for objectification, we all are. The male image isn't wildly objectified sexually because most people don't want to see that. 

Making it look as if the female image in video games is some sort of pandemic is overstating the wealth in the variety of male characters. Basically, it's a superficial judgement. 

In other words, they both suck in different ways for the same reasons. Most games use its world as an excuse to do stuff. Escapism is what people pay for. Not a message. You can't tell me Twilight is popular for any other reason.

What I find interesting is that many designers' answer to this is to make a female character a stereotypical man with lady parts. That, to me, is more sexist because it implies that good qualities are inherently male.




Can't we just treat each other fairly? Any realistic depth would kill all of this. No tropes no trope inversions. Play everyone straight in the context of their world. If it helps, get more women interested in making games. You can't fault a heterosexual male developer for not wanting to save a dude from an Ivory Tower. I mean, who remembers this scene? 


[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jO1EOhGkY0&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]


As for what happened to her. Sound like some dudes are butthurt.


----------



## Gaawa-chan (Jun 15, 2012)

I will agree that the study sounds incredibly biased and shitty in general, but this reaction is just... 

Sometimes I'm ashamed to be a gamer...


----------



## Descent of the Lion (Jun 15, 2012)

My thing is, if you are angry about biased research, don't prove it to be true. Make your own study.


All this anti-jew woman bashing is getting a bit old.


----------



## Tiger (Jun 15, 2012)

I think it's hilarious how pathetically easy the morons of the internet are to manipulate.

Fucking bravo to her, use the douche-bags against themselves, make money.

How can you be mad at her? She stood up, said 'sexism is bad' - had thousands of complete and utter rejects pounce on her from all directions with insults, and even death threats. Even the internet faceless movements some of you seem so enamored by fell for this. The internet douche-bags tossed everything and the kitchen sink at her, and because of it - the apologists responded like they always do - as an elastic band.

This is one of the most successful trolls the internet has seen in years, and you're all mad because she won. Pathetic. Good for her.

If there hadn't been so many rejects trashing her, she wouldn't have gotten NEARLY that much money. So she's to blame? Hahaha no, fuck you and fuck the thousands upon thousands of complete pieces of gutter-shit who left those comments and attacked her wiki, internet persona, etc. etc. If you're going to be mad at someone for this girl getting all that money, at least have the balls to direct it at the right place.

An exercise in stupidity, and the best proof we needed to see just how pathetic people are on the internet...especially the ones who pretend to be cool and ironic, and part of some kind of e-club. I hope she makes double. triple...ten times what she has made already. I hope the hateful posts and threats keep flowing in by the thousands. I hope the fucking idiots never realize the fact that this joke is on them.

Brilliant.


----------



## CrazyAries (Jun 15, 2012)

Law just owned the thread.

I do question whether or not Anita Sarkeesian actually needs $6,000 dollars to do this story or whether or not it will even be productive, but the internet trolls did themselves a disservice.  There were even some in this thread that proved her point.  In the rush to threaten and hurl derogatory messages at her, these trolls made gamers and internet users look bad and helped to fund her project.  

Of course she is going to piss people off.  She is well aware of that and now she has the evidence of butthurt and verbal abuse in the form of screenshots and on her video page (until some decided to delete their messages on the YouTube page). 

All that needed to be done for people to discredit her is to discuss the content of some of her other videos and the content of video games.  Her endeavor only needed a civil response but the misogyny, wiki page vandalism, and death threats helped her to meet her target 23+ times over so far ($140,216 as I post this).


----------



## jklsemicolon (Jun 15, 2012)

Jello Biafra said:


> False. Patriarchy "theory" if you can call it that, is only common among certain groups of radical feminists. Other feminist schools have no use for it, or actively oppose it.



Of course I call it that, since it is a theory. It's also a completely bogus theory, but that's another story. All feminists both believe in it and oppose it. Any attempts to claim feminism does not require a belief in patriarchy theory is merely an attempt to make feminism a catch-all term for All That Is Good. Because then it gets a lot easier to demonize those who oppose the latest specific demands of feminist politicians.


----------



## Ceria (Jun 15, 2012)

E said:


> that wikipedia page :rofl



This article about Nazi germany is a stub, you can help wikipedia by expanding it.


----------



## Pilaf (Jun 15, 2012)

LMAO @ "entitled ^ (use bro) kitchen and hooker".

The internet has a right to exist. The joy of seeing someone get legitimately injured by a troll because they're too stupid to realize what's going on never gets old.


----------



## Jello Biafra (Jun 15, 2012)

jklsemicolon said:


> Of course I call it that, since it is a theory. It's also a completely bogus theory, but that's another story. All feminists both believe in it and oppose it. Any attempts to claim feminism does not require a belief in patriarchy theory is merely an attempt to make feminism a catch-all term for All That Is Good. Because then it gets a lot easier to demonize those who oppose the latest specific demands of feminist politicians.


No, they do not.

Liberal feminism has never accepted the notion of a transhistorical "patriarchy" in human culture. Neither have third-wave feminists nor socialist feminists. Only specific brands of radical feminists attempt to reduce the matter of gender and sexism to some totalizing patriarchal culture.


----------



## jklsemicolon (Jun 15, 2012)

Jello Biafra said:


> No, they do not.


Yes, they do.



> Liberal feminism has never accepted the notion of a transhistorical "patriarchy" in human culture. Neither have third-wave feminists nor socialist feminists. Only specific brands of radical feminists attempt to reduce the matter of gender and sexism to some totalizing patriarchal culture.


No, that is a uniting foundation of all feminism. I'm sure there can be people calling themselves feminists without believing in patriarchy, but that is different from *being* feminists. But I can see that you have your mind dead set on not getting it, so I won't waste any more of my time with you.

Jello Biafra - Getting It Wrong? since 2008. Also pretending to be female to receive the benefits he knows women enjoy but cannot quite put to words since it conflicts with his ideas of gender oppression.


----------



## Magicbullet (Jun 15, 2012)

jklsemicolon said:


> Yes, they do.
> 
> No, that is a uniting foundation of all feminism. I'm sure there can be people calling themselves feminists without believing in patriarchy, but that is different from *being* feminists. But I can see that you have your mind dead set on not getting it, so I won't waste any more of my time with you.



  

Keep beating that strawfemnist, you'll win for sure.


----------



## Golden Circle (Jun 15, 2012)

[sp=seems oddly appropriate]
[/sp]


----------



## Blue (Jun 15, 2012)

Nooooooooooope



Because con artists ferment outrage

although using outrage to perpetuate your con, that's new to me.


----------



## Mexican God Lvl 3 (Jun 15, 2012)

She didnt troll , she is serious about this cause.

She is so serious, that she felt she needed 6k to sit on her ass and play games and make articles about them.

That is what mainly makes her repulsive.  She chose a topic that will surely get a huge following by any feminazi.

She could have very well done this at her own time and pace without the need for 6k.

Feminists are despicable.


----------



## Mexican God Lvl 3 (Jun 15, 2012)

Its called rep Flow, use it u tard.


----------



## Golden Circle (Jun 15, 2012)

KnK: I wouldn't call her a con artist because people knew exactly what they were donating towards and already knew that she was over the limit. I've donated to kickstarter projects before. And the most recent one I donated to went over its goal. (It's the brony documentary in case you're wondering.) So going over the goal or having a very successful kickstarter doesn't imply anything about the party being a con. In fact I find the idea that this would make her a con to be amusing.


----------



## EJ (Jun 15, 2012)

Reminded me of that one fake account where they out "gaynproud" and so many dumbasses fell for it. lol


----------



## Blue (Jun 15, 2012)

Rainbow Dash said:


> KnK: I wouldn't call her a con artist


I would!


> because people knew exactly what they were donating towards


Without thinking about it for a second...


> and already knew that she was over the limit.


Over the $6000 limit for _buying video games._ 


> I've donated to kickstarter projects before.


Me too!


> And the most recent one I donated to went over its goal.


Mine too. 


> (It's the brony documentary in case you're wondering.)


I really wasn't. 


> So going over the goal or having a very successful kickstarter doesn't imply anything about the party being a con.


Agreed. Her asking for money to play video games all day and passing it over as "research" while attaching a contraversial political agenda to it is the con.


> In fact I find the idea that this would make her a con to be amusing.


I find the fact that you're focusing on it being a kickstarter project and completely avoiding thinking about what a woman who obviously lives very well is going to spend $6000 on to research video games, never mind $150000.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 15, 2012)

blue you gotta get over it. just because you don't agree for some odd reason with her views doesn't mean it's a con.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jun 15, 2012)

It does sound like a con though, you have to acknowledge that at least.


----------



## Hand Banana (Jun 15, 2012)

I don't see it as a con. People must actually care about the issue at hand if they are still donating. The world runs of ignorance.


----------



## Blue (Jun 15, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> blue you gotta get over it. just because you don't agree for some odd reason with her views doesn't mean it's a con.



It's true that I don't agree with her opinions - I vehemently don't agree with her opinions, which is why I'm spending precious minutes of my life pressing this thread flat -

but it's a con.

If she was going to, for instance, make a non-misogynist game, and had the credentials and the support to do it? Fuck yeah, fund the shit out of her if you want. I'll even play her office lady doing boring office lady things game, see if it's any good.

But she wants money to buy video games and shill her shit. When she's obviously not hurting for money. 

How in God's Green Acres is that not a con?


----------



## Hand Banana (Jun 15, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> How in God's Green Acres is that not a con?



Because she isn't lying. She's coming out and saying what the money is for.


----------



## Petes12 (Jun 15, 2012)

you're paying for a product, as long as she delivers the product then no one's been conned have they? it's a typical transaction. as long as she delivers the goods that the people are funding her for, she hasn't really tricked anyone has she?

of course for the amount she's raised it better have some sweet sfx and spinny rims and all that.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Jun 15, 2012)

Blue is just mad jelly


----------



## Blue (Jun 15, 2012)

So your argument is basically "She doesn't need the money, and people know she doesn't need the money, but they're funding her anyway because it's important to them"?

Because if so I guess I don't have a response except that I hate humans.



> Blue is just mad jelly


----------



## drache (Jun 15, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> It's true that I don't agree with her opinions - I vehemently don't agree with her opinions, which is why I'm spending precious minutes of my life pressing this thread flat -
> 
> but it's a con.
> 
> ...



well she didn't ask for all the money she got, she only asked for 6,000 which frankly for a film is not even a shoe string budget

but the response she got was overwhelming hopefully she uses it to make a good film


----------



## josh101 (Jun 15, 2012)

drache said:


> well she didn't ask for all the money she got, she only asked for 6,000 which frankly for a film is not even a shoe string budget
> 
> but the response she got was overwhelming hopefully she uses it to make a good film


A film? You're mistaken. She wants $6,000 to make a couple e-blogs about tropes in games. If you take a little trip over to her youtube channel, you'll see that she already has a HD camera, a nice macbook, a studio or place to record of sorts, an editing program, a nice apartment and already owns the video game consoles. 

She's been making videos about tropes in movies and games for two years now, why is that when she starts a kickstarter project that suddenly she starts getting attention from trolls? I stand by my statement that she probably started all of it. A good controversial video and a nice post over at the cesc-pools of the internet and you'll soon have a following of retards.


----------



## drache (Jun 15, 2012)

josh101 said:


> A film? You're mistaken. She wants $6,000 to make a couple e-blogs about tropes in games. If you take a little trip over to her youtube channel, you'll see that she already has a HD camera, a nice macbook, a studio or place to record of sorts, an editing program, a nice apartment and already owns the video game consoles.
> 
> She's been making videos about tropes in movies and games for two years now, why is that when she starts a kickstarter project that suddenly she starts getting attention from trolls? I stand by my statement that she probably started all of it. A good controversial video and a nice post over at the cesc-pools of the internet and you'll soon have a following of retards.



if she really did so (and there were dozens of accounts involved) then it has so brilliantly suceeded that I don't really care

and I thought it was for a film i'll have to check again


----------



## EpicBroFist (Jun 15, 2012)

$146,095 to read TV tropes pages to people


----------



## Deleted member 84471 (Jun 15, 2012)

Jello Biafra said:


> No, they do not.
> 
> Liberal feminism has never accepted the notion of a transhistorical "patriarchy" in human culture. Neither have third-wave feminists nor socialist feminists. Only specific brands of radical feminists attempt to reduce the matter of gender and sexism to some totalizing patriarchal culture.



It's been a very widespread and well-accepted theory within feminism and the women's movement though.



> *Perhaps the most persistent and widespread theory around the Women?s Movement today is that of patriarchy.* It takes many different forms but the ideas behind it ? that male domination or sexism is something which exists not just as a product of capitalism but as something quite separate from the capitalist mode of production and which will endure beyond capitalism ? are *accepted so widely that a wholesale rejection of the theory is greeted with complete and genuine amazement.*





Although to prove your point, the rather thorough critique of patriarchy linked above was penned by Lindsey German the famous socialist (and feminist).


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jun 15, 2012)

Eh, I just wanna state again that I think this woman in particular is bad for any legit cause for feminism. She's a well off person, so I'd think she'd give that excess money to something like...uh, Planned Parenthood or the Battered Woman's Shelter or something. Maybe you know, go on to talk about issues that actually would be of concern to the feminist movement and all...


----------



## ImperatorMortis (Jun 15, 2012)

Law said:


> I think it's hilarious how pathetically easy the morons of the internet are to manipulate.
> 
> Fucking bravo to her, use the douche-bags against themselves, make money.
> 
> ...



I love this post.


----------



## Deleted member 84471 (Jun 15, 2012)

It's totally wrong though.  

She's not a "troll", and the money received was clearly a windfall rather than the fruition of some sort of puppeteer's plot. Fair play anyway, I don't think that she intended to con people.


----------



## Blue (Jun 15, 2012)

Trolls lie and aggravate for attention.

She did so for money.

Ergo, not a troll. A con artist.


----------



## EJ (Jun 15, 2012)

She played all those dumbasses. Point blank.


----------



## kazuri (Jun 15, 2012)

Even if 100k people trolled her, that is not an accurate representation of the internet.

The people who don't troll like that, guess what, don't, so you don't know how many of them there are. 

Its like people have absolutely no idea how big, big numbers are. when you have billions of people you are going to cover the entire array of the attitude spectrum.

10k people trolling her is nothing when 10 million were like "This is stupid, I will now go to another web page I enjoy."


----------



## Elim Rawne (Jun 15, 2012)

> recent Kickstarter project caused a bit of an outcry this week due mostly to the disproportionate backlash perpetuated against its founder. For those not in the know, Anita Sarkeesian wanted funding for a new video series, ?Tropes vs. Women in Videogames.? A seemingly benign project, the series aimed to look at the tired and weary narrative tropes that developers trotted out when representing women in games. A simple idea, and one that was doing reasonably well in the funding department. Then some of those wacky hardcore male gamers got ahold of it, and did what a frightened majority does best ? it attacked. Now, you can look anywhere online for a rundown of the harassment that followed ? from rape and death threats to racial slurs ? but the upshot is that the attacks resulted in the opposite of their intended effect, with the project now swimming in $144,501 ? and only a $6,000 goal.
> 
> In response, the majority has done that other thing majorities do really well ? they got jealous of the minority. Like a child that screeches for a new toy if they see another child get one, gamers in various forums and comment threads started demanding that sexism against men start getting looked at and given equal footing with sexism against women. Because of course, those born with greater privilege and advantages can definitely count their struggles as equal to those of a minority group that has to fight to be taken seriously in any avenue. In a world where rich white males are deciding what women can do with their own bodies, it?s certainly time we stopped worrying about women and started looking at what those poor, unrepresented men must suffer through.
> 
> ...


----------



## ~rocka (Jun 15, 2012)




----------



## josh101 (Jun 15, 2012)

I don't believe for a second she got thousands of death threats or whatever she is claiming. I've seen pictures of the so called "worst trolling" and it's the same sort of shit you would see on any slightly controversial and popular video. I mean there's a tiny population of people who threaten or say something vile, but look at any YouTube video and you'll get that, the rest of it is people calling her a con artist, arguing that she's just doing this for the money or arguing that male's have exactly the same problem in video games. How this even got into the news is beyond me. A couple youtube videos spammed ( most don't even have 100,000 views, shows how this pales in comparison to other attacks that have happened ), a personal wiki page changed ( which anyone can do, it wasn't locked ) and maybe an email or two sent to her. Ridiculous that it's even in the news.


----------



## ShiggyDiggyDoo (Jun 15, 2012)

Trolling or not, congrats to her. She did a fine job at accomplishing her goal. Haters gonna hate.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jun 15, 2012)

josh101 said:


> I don't believe for a second she got thousands of death threats or whatever she is claiming. I've seen pictures of the so called "worst trolling" and it's the same sort of shit you would see on any slightly controversial and popular video. I mean there's a tiny population of people who threaten or say something vile, but look at any YouTube video and you'll get that, the rest of it is people calling her a con artist, arguing that she's just doing this for the money or arguing that male's have exactly the same problem in video games. How this even got into the news is beyond me. A couple youtube videos spammed ( most don't even have 100,000 views, shows how this pales in comparison to other attacks that have happened ), a personal wiki page changed ( which anyone can do, it wasn't locked ) and maybe an email or two sent to her. Ridiculous that it's even in the news.



Then you're new to the internet. Hell I don't even do much and I rack up a few death threats a year.


----------



## Mizura (Jun 15, 2012)

You know, it just occurred to me that perhaps female stereotypes in games are considered harmful Precisely because they're less outrageous than the portrayals of men in games.

-Nobody- will expect the average guy to sport 200kg of muscles and start shooting guns and arrows at trucks and ogres anytime soon. But both men and women Can start expecting women to have D-cup breasts, tiny waists, not have any cellulite and make really good sammiches.

In the same way, the most detrimental stereotypes of guys don't come from action video games, where neither the male or female players will actually expect real life guys to turn out that way, but portrayals like in the novel Twilight, which has a more "attainable" portrayal of a perfect boyfriend who treats his perfectly average and boring girlfriend like a goddess or something. I heard many girls dumped their boyfriends after seeing the movie.


----------



## josh101 (Jun 15, 2012)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Then you're new to the internet. Hell I don't even do much and I rack up a few death threats a year.


Well in a thousand years you're set to make the news. But that helps my point, shit like this happens everywhere over the most trivial of things and she's made the news over it when really, the abuse wasn't even that bad.


----------



## jklsemicolon (Jun 16, 2012)

What a complete load of bs. The author of that has no clue about anything.


----------



## dummy plug (Jun 16, 2012)

got a laugh at the wiki page so i guess this was not a waste of my time


----------



## butcher50 (Jun 16, 2012)

feminazis can suck my nuts.


----------



## Golden Circle (Jun 16, 2012)

ITT: proof that not only men can be misogynist.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Jun 16, 2012)

jklsemicolon said:


> What a complete load of bs. The author of that has no clue about anything.



Great rebuttal


----------



## jklsemicolon (Jun 16, 2012)

Elim Rawne said:


> Great rebuttal



Probably a bit better than the article deserved.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Jun 16, 2012)

ITT: Entitled Manbabies


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jun 16, 2012)

Elim Rawne said:


> ITT: Entitled Manbabies



Look how edgy and controversial you are.


----------



## zenieth (Jun 16, 2012)

I'm still waiting for an answer to the nice things we were supposed to get out of this.


----------



## The Great Oneddd (Jun 16, 2012)

Dear Internet. 

As a human being I feel I must apologize on behalf of that woman. We have for a whole now been trying to make it so that some people do not reproduce and have their genes spread. This with a heavy heart I must say has failed. We now have people running around thinking that clearly fake imagery is real standard of expectation when it is nothing more than a game lure in. 

With best regards a human.


----------



## jklsemicolon (Jun 16, 2012)

Elim Rawne said:


> ITT: Entitled Manbabies



Keep up the misandry, buddy.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Jun 16, 2012)

jklsemicolon said:


> Keep up the misandry, buddy.



Oh yes, misandry. You're proving that article right.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Jun 16, 2012)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igXz_hXKUcE&feature=plcp[/YOUTUBE] 




so much truth


----------



## Esponer (Jun 16, 2012)

I actually started reading Feminist Frequency a bit before this started, specifically her tropes in fiction.

I read quite a few feminist blogs. I identify myself as a feminist, though with a bit of unease – for some reason, although feminism is at its heart just about promoting equality for women, it's controversial being a guy and a feminist. Not just from the "make me a sammich bitch" misogynists, but also from some female feminists. So it's… complicated.

And I don't think that all that complication is called for, and I've definitely read some crap in feminist blogs. (In roughly the same frequency you find crap in anything.)

Anita Sarkeesian… I didn't think much of her. Nothing I've heard/read her say was new, and her perspective wasn't fresh. It kind of bothers me that she's just been given $160,000 to make mediocre Youtube videos and play games. Is it nice that she was harrassed on the Internet? No, but "there are nasty people on the Internet" isn't news to any of us. Hell, more than a dozen IP addresses involved in her Wiki page being defaced? There are one and a half billion people on the Internet: that's your potential stage. A few more than twelve people being dicks to you is _nothing_. I read her blog post about all this harassment, drawing grand conclusions from it, when sorry, this is the Internet, and a minority of people were dicks to you because those people? They're dicks to everyone.


----------



## OmniOmega (Jun 16, 2012)

She really did con everyone

I don't blame 4chan and anon's anymore


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Jun 16, 2012)

skip to the 10 minutes mark there he show his evidence


----------



## Blue (Jun 16, 2012)

This guy sounds kind of shaky and doesn't even appear on camera himself, he must be a huge neckbeard. That's kind of 

But lemme actually listen to what he has to say.

Also
>Kentucky


----------



## Blue (Jun 16, 2012)

Yeah it comes across as a rambling rant. Princess Peach stickers? Does that really matter?

Need a rebuttal from an attractive, intelligent, charismatic dude (or, better yet, an attractive, intelligent, charismatic woman) not Comic Book Guy from Kentucky. 


While I'm back here:


			
				Rainbow Dash said:
			
		

> ITT: proof that not only men can be misogynist.


You keep using that word, but you have no idea what it means.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Jun 16, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> This guy sounds kind of shaky and doesn't even appear on camera himself, he must be a huge neckbeard. That's kind of
> 
> But lemme actually listen to what he has to say.
> 
> ...


someone should go to 4chan to corroborate his "evidence"


----------



## josh101 (Jun 16, 2012)

Lol'd at the screenshots. Called it.


----------



## Shaz (Jun 16, 2012)

Disgusting


----------



## zenieth (Jun 17, 2012)

I still want to know what nice things the Internet is missing out on, God dammit.


----------



## Golden Circle (Jun 17, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> You keep using that word, but you have no idea what it means.


I know exactly what it means. Nice try projecting yourself on to my words though.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Jun 17, 2012)

As far as marketing yourself goes, kudos to her. Got fuckloads of money and exposed the manbabies who cry misandry


----------



## drache (Jun 17, 2012)

josh101 said:


> Well yes, that's the point. She made it seem like these people randomly targeted her in some gang like attack because they disagreed with her and wanted to "silence" her. In-fact, they were provoked by constant spamming, and replied like most internet trolls do, insults and abuse. You don't poke a bear with a stick then complain when it bites you, then proceed to claim receive $160,000 of donations because it did.



I really don't see how even if that is true how that matters at the end of the day people thought her project important enough to donate far in excess for her


----------



## josh101 (Jun 17, 2012)

I'm not overly bothered about the money, I mean sure, she's conning people, but the thing that ticks me off is how she is trying to portray herself as some victim of some unprovoked, co-ordinated gang attack of misogynists, when in truth it looks as if she provoked them with constant spamming.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Jun 17, 2012)

By that logic, if some black man spams my account, I can just call him a ^ (use bro).


----------



## josh101 (Jun 17, 2012)

What? :rofl No where did I say it was justified for them to attack her because she provoked them, I stated that it was wrong for her to call it an unprovoked misogynist attack when it seems as if she did provoke them.

Get some reading comprehension. :rofl


----------



## Elim Rawne (Jun 17, 2012)

Zip it, breeder


----------



## Esponer (Jun 17, 2012)

Criticising her is kind of like criticising Israel. You have a point (if you don't take it too far and bring an -ism into it), but if you're not careful you'll look like you're defending Hamas / the sexist trolls. Of course, you're not: you're just taking it as obvious that they're worse.


----------



## Deleted member 84471 (Jun 17, 2012)

If she was properly spamming on 4chan and places like that, she was obviously on a WUM, hoping to elicit a reaction. But surely most of the vitriol she's received wasn't provoked by spamming anyway, looking again at some of the "shocking" comments, it sounds like a fair representation of the audience on a standard gaming message board, reacting to a perceived outsider's self-entitled, self-victimising attack on video games and the people who play them (... namely, _them_). They would've attacked her personally whether or not she spammed here or there, simply because of what she was saying.

Childish, out of proportion, and pathetic to be fair, but I wouldn't say anything very surprising.



Elim Rawne said:


> As far as marketing yourself goes, kudos to her. Got fuckloads of money and exposed the manbabies who cry misandry


Fuck that, if it was a cynical ploy for profit it's a cunt's trick. It wasn't though.


----------



## drache (Jun 17, 2012)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> Actually if this is true, it is not laughable so much as a calculated, ok so after what? two years of making videos for free she decides that to ask for money which she evidently does not need and, she decides to spam, out of all the places, the one place where she is most likely to get a negative reaction, I'm sorry but this look calculated. and in the what do we get, a rip off of tvtropes?
> 
> do you really think people would donate if the shitstorm hadn't happened really this is nothing more than a circle jerk for the most extreme branches of feminism, what is the good thing to come out of this? tell me



I think you can't prove that without a time machine


----------



## Ae (Jun 17, 2012)

Mael said:


> 4chan and ED



Ugh, those guys are one of the lowest form of life...


----------



## EJ (Jun 17, 2012)

Has 4chan ever caused someone to kill themselves? Or close to it?


----------



## Ae (Jun 17, 2012)

Flow said:


> Has 4chan ever caused someone to kill themselves? Or close to it?



It's slowly killing me knowing they exist


----------



## Mintaka (Jun 18, 2012)

Flow said:


> Has 4chan ever caused someone to kill themselves? Or close to it?


I wouldn't doubt it.


----------



## Bill G (Jun 18, 2012)

> Making $120,000 by being a cunt


----------



## Botzu (Jun 18, 2012)

Esponer said:


> Anita Sarkeesian… I didn't think much of her. Nothing I've heard/read her say was new, and her perspective wasn't fresh. It kind of bothers me that she's just been given $160,000 to make mediocre Youtube videos and play games. Is it nice that she was harrassed on the Internet? No, but "there are nasty people on the Internet" isn't news to any of us. Hell, more than a dozen IP addresses involved in her Wiki page being defaced? There are one and a half billion people on the Internet: that's your potential stage. A few more than twelve people being dicks to you is _nothing_. I read her blog post about all this harassment, drawing grand conclusions from it, when sorry, this is the Internet, and a minority of people were dicks to you because those people? They're dicks to everyone.


This is basically where I am at. She is definitely milking this by whipping up her supporters for money. Though I can't say its a con or scam, as I think the people giving her money know what this is for, just a video series telling them what they already know about sexism in games and on the interwebs. I would speculate that people donated so much so it could get attention(hey we are all talking about the kickstarter and sexism in games now aren't we?), but who really knows what would motivate a person to donate large sums of money for somebody else to play vidya games.


----------



## Lina Inverse (Jun 18, 2012)

Flow said:


> Has 4chan ever caused someone to kill themselves? Or close to it?



they have a section that sometimes has dead people and they fap to it

yeah, they're brain dead


----------



## sadated_peon (Jun 18, 2012)

fools and their money are soon parted.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jun 18, 2012)

As I stated, if she were really serious about this feminism thing, I'd expect to hear of a full donation of the excess money.


----------



## baconbits (Jun 18, 2012)

Seto Kaiba said:


> As I stated, if she were really serious about this feminism thing, I'd expect to hear of a full donation of the excess money.



Most people aren't serious about the causes they raise money for.  I don't mean that as an attack on feminism, either.  Some of the churches I've seen...


----------



## Red (Jun 18, 2012)

The article fails to record all the people defending her on 4chan and /v/.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Jun 18, 2012)

Seto Kaiba said:


> As I stated, if she were really serious about this feminism thing, I'd expect to hear of a full donation of the excess money.



Why should she do that ?


----------



## Draffut (Jun 18, 2012)

Elim Rawne said:


> Why should she do that ?



Why wouldn't she?  To good to donate to a related cause like a woman's shelter or something?


----------



## Ippy (Jun 18, 2012)

@people who honestly believe that the male gender stereotypes are even on the same level as the female ones:

You are ignoring that most of the male gender stereotypes are at least obtainable to some degree naturally, _without _the need for expensive and potentially hazardous elective surgery.

In case I'm not 100% clear, I'm talking about the muscles, the money, and the personality.  With enough time and effort, you can be muscular.  There may be upper limits to how far you can take them, but it's obtainable to some degree.  With a little bit of luck, and a whole lot of effort, you can secure a job with a moderate-to-high salary and prestige.  And if you're a dick... don't be one.

Besides the emotional stunting involved, there are generally quite a few positive male role models in video games.

Female stereotypes, on the other hand, are a whole other ballgame.

The supposed physically "perfect" examples (pre-gritty-reboot Lara Croft, DoA girls, mostly every female in Capcom, current Samus, Bayo-...) all have things you either were genetically destined to have, or you weren't.  Tight figure?  Obtainable.  Boobs?  If you don't have them, you're shit out of luck.  Butt?  Don't have one, you're still shit out of luck.

Additionally, they're gender roles, socioeconomically, are a lot more muddled than ours.  At least males have a general idea of what is socially acceptable as far as socioeconomic status.  Women are portrayed as helpless nothings or mindless killing machines wearing little clothing.


----------



## The World (Jun 19, 2012)

The World said:


> Pseudonym Jennifer Helper.





[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2BGsqtY1o0&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Vergil (Jun 19, 2012)

Pretty much agree with everything he says. Also, not her fault folk are throwing money at her


----------



## Blue (Sep 29, 2012)

Courtesy :





			
				Erictheking said:
			
		

> Fuck that, if it was a cynical ploy for profit it's a cunt's trick. It wasn't though.



Where's your matriarchial god now?


----------



## Esponer (Sep 29, 2012)

Link to this "some guy"?

_Edit:_ Ah, from the context I wasn't sure if the Youtube link was that, and at first couldn't be bothered typing it out since it was a screenshot. Seems this might be it – watching now.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 29, 2012)

yeah, I always wondered what happened


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Sep 29, 2012)

If that's true, the feds might have some questions for her.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 29, 2012)

Wow. So she just ran with the money? Big surprise.


----------



## Blue (Sep 29, 2012)

I assume if anyone actually comes knocking with fraud charges, she could just bang out a video or two and call it even-steven. That's all she ever promised, after all.

All she ever promised for $150,000.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 29, 2012)

well, now we know where her true allegiance where


----------



## Lord Yu (Sep 29, 2012)

link to the youboob vid. Too lazy to type.


----------



## CrazyAries (Sep 29, 2012)

I already figured that Sarkeesian was a troll.  Recently, users at 4chan traced some posts made by her on that site to her IP address.



Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> Courtesy :
> 
> *Spoiler*: __



Wait?  This same thread waas also posted in the Gaming Department?

Also:  Link to video?


----------



## Blue (Sep 29, 2012)




----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 29, 2012)

Man, people are stupid. I wouldn't have given her a dime.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 29, 2012)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Man, people are stupid. I wouldn't have given her a dime.



to quote the great mister T, "I pity the fool"


----------



## TSC (Sep 29, 2012)

someone in video gaming business should now make women as money grubbing whores as a new women stereotype.


----------



## Toby (Sep 29, 2012)

Anybody who needs 6000 to make a youtube video is clearly shitting you. The money was supposed to be spent on buying games, IIRC, although there is no amount of games that would cost 6000 and which she could play in order to produce a documentary only two months later.

So basically, 6000 does not reflect any production costs, it is not spent on research materials either apparently, and some random dude on the internet did the whole research project for her completely free of charge - thus begging the question: Why did she raise money in the first place?

And he is a dude dude, not a she dude. Irony at its finest.

I am sure that the website she used has a list of TOS that she has violated in some way or another. In any case, the US laws governing fake charities are governed on the state level. Someone from her state should rap this up to the local authorities.


----------



## Vergil (Sep 29, 2012)

Interesting video. I agree with a lot of it - especially the writing talent that is currently in Video games.


----------



## Blue (Sep 29, 2012)

Intelligence is often defined as the ability to relate seemingly unrelated concepts or events, and the number of people who were seemingly unable to relate "6000 dollars" and "making a youtube video" to arrive at this conclusion


Toby said:


> Anybody who needs 6000 to make a youtube video is clearly shitting you.


is really quite remarkable.


----------



## ShadowReij (Sep 29, 2012)

So she just ran with the money. Figured.


----------



## Zaru (Sep 29, 2012)

The best part is that there will still be white knights and feminists definding her scam, even though she will never and can never deliver content worthy of the shitload of money she got.


----------



## Toby (Sep 29, 2012)

Zaru said:


> The best part is that there will still be white knights and feminists definding her scam, even though she will never and can never deliver content worthy of the shitload of money she got.



Sounds like trashcan-Moses


----------



## Saufsoldat (Sep 29, 2012)

Zaru said:


> The best part is that there will still be white knights and feminists definding her scam, even though she will never and can never deliver content worthy of the shitload of money she got.



Well maybe she needed to buy a small island to seclude herself for her studies and thus produce the best Youtube video possible.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 29, 2012)

Toby said:


> Anybody who needs 6000 to make a youtube video is clearly shitting you. The money was supposed to be spent on buying games, IIRC, although there is no amount of games that would cost 6000 and which she could play in order to produce a documentary only two months later.
> 
> So basically, 6000 does not reflect any production costs, it is not spent on research materials either apparently, and some random dude on the internet did the whole research project for her completely free of charge - thus begging the question: Why did she raise money in the first place?
> 
> ...


Kickstarter has terms, if she violated them and all then they have a way to take care of it. I looked into getting one, actually. Though there is something to be said about what you can and can't do on there. 

A while back Molly McIsaac, who can only be described as an internet personality, spoke of launching a kick starter to pay for breast enlargement surgery. I am pretty sure that's against the TOS but a bunch of dumb fools were ready to support.


----------



## Lord Yu (Sep 29, 2012)

Vergil said:


> Interesting video. I agree with a lot of it - especially the writing talent that is currently in Video games.



I'd honestly say that the writing quality of triple A games are on average around the level of blockbuster movies. Video game stories are by standard pretty low and definitely showing a medium in the process of growth but I think he is still underselling them a little. 

The video makes good points but I'd honestly still take Extra Credit over this.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 29, 2012)

Her videos on tropes were pretty good (except for the Bechdel Test, it doesn't take into consideration not all movies can have female characters). Honestly she could have put the money to use if she really meant to, like taking trips to talk to game creators or fans at conventions. But it seems that she won't be doing that.


----------



## Grape (Sep 29, 2012)

I don't understand why Kick Starter doesn't have an initial fund cap? If you are trying for $6000, why should you be able to raise more than that? 

Also, on the main topic of misogyny in games; it's _completely_ hypocritical. I should begin a Kick Starter for the research of male stereotypes in film! I should file for court dates against anyone whom uses the phrase "be a man"! 

Or my favorite, I should sue damn near every employer in the United States, because if I am equal to another man in every qualification, but he is taller than I, statistics show that he will land the job.


----------



## Saufsoldat (Sep 29, 2012)

Grape Krush said:


> I don't understand why Kick Starter doesn't have an initial fund cap? If you are trying for $6000, why should you be able to raise more than that?



When you open a kickstarter page, you'll see how much money has been donated, so it's up to the individual to decide whether or not they want to donate despite the fact that the original goal has been exceeded.


----------



## Enclave (Sep 29, 2012)

Grape Krush said:


> I don't understand why Kick Starter doesn't have an initial fund cap? If you are trying for $6000, why should you be able to raise more than that?



Because of stretch goals of course.

Anyways, there likely isn't much anybody can do about this.  When you put up a kickstarter you're not under any legal obligation to actually provide what you promised.

I she'll probably just get banned from Kickstarter in the future.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 29, 2012)

Enclave said:


> Because of stretch goals of course.
> 
> Anyways, there likely isn't much anybody can do about this.  When you put up a kickstarter you're not under any legal obligation to actually provide what you promised.
> 
> I she'll probably just get banned from Kickstarter in the future.



I think it's like having investors, you can sued.


----------



## Grape (Sep 29, 2012)

So, can I go ahead and begin my Kick Start for the stereotypical view of males portrayed in media? 

I'd probably be 4chan'd and told to be a man about it


----------



## Stalin (Sep 29, 2012)

Her haters are the ones who helped make things this make.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 29, 2012)

Stalin said:


> Her haters are the ones who helped make things this make.



Haters gave her the attention and stupid people gave her money.


----------



## Draffut (Sep 29, 2012)

Grape Krush said:


> I don't understand why Kick Starter doesn't have an initial fund cap? If you are trying for $6000, why should you be able to raise more than that?



In many cases raising higher amounts of money lets the people who made the project provide additional items to the backers.

I occasionally support different Board games and pen and paper RPG's.  Both of them have kickers above their initial cost like providing better meeples or figurines, or board or whatever to their product.  It's usually nice in these product, since they are individually produced for each backer, each of those stretch goals gives those backers the nice upgrades for no extra individual investment.

I think this Kickstarter even had them, like $25,000 at the most, all for extra videos.  That will never happen.


----------



## Grape (Sep 29, 2012)

I think it would be better if it were set up so that once the initial goal is met, the person had to resubmit for additional funds.


----------



## Enclave (Sep 29, 2012)

Grape Krush said:


> I think it would be better if it were set up so that once the initial goal is met, the person had to resubmit for additional funds.



That would significantly reduce the funds they receive.  Would have REALLY hurt the likes of Project Eternity, Wasteland 2 and other games.

The real answer?  Be smart about what you're funding.


----------



## Saufsoldat (Sep 29, 2012)

Grape Krush said:


> I think it would be better if it were set up so that once the initial goal is met, the person had to resubmit for additional funds.



That's just pointless. Again, the investor is fully aware of the fact that the original goal has been met. It is his personal, informed decision to provide additional funds.


----------



## josh101 (Sep 29, 2012)

Guess she was too busy spending her money to make a couple of youtube videos. Stupid woman. I hope she gets some sort of legal action taken against her. 

All though I'm glad she did that, hopefully some of the white-knights and feminist's supporting her well have some sort of self reflection and realise how stupid they were.


----------



## OmniOmega (Sep 29, 2012)

This is why you don't fucking donate to people who have all the current systems and need 6000$ + for more. How dense do you have to be to think she actually needs anymore money for games.

Let alone 6000 and over


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 29, 2012)

The real problem is that by her doing this and taking the money and running off she makes other feminists look dishonest and gives men a reason not to trust them...not like they needed a reason.


----------



## drache (Sep 29, 2012)

wow but then again not entirely surprised, why the hell would people keep donating to her anyways after she got the 6k? sure you _can_ but that does not mean you should


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 29, 2012)

drache said:


> wow but then again not entirely surprised, why the hell would people keep donating to her anyways after she got the 6k? sure you _can_ but that does not mean you should


Remember a while back how that bus driver got verbally abused by the students and people donated all that money because they felt bad. Even though the abuse was just some kids being dicks? It's the same thing here, people see a high profile story and they feel bad, they just donate money and don't care that it doesn't make sense. In the case of the bus driver, everyone acted like I was mean for saying we shouldn't donate all of this.


----------



## drache (Sep 29, 2012)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Remember a while back how that bus driver got verbally abused by the students and people donated all that money because they felt bad. Even though the abuse was just some kids being dicks? It's the same thing here, people see a high profile story and they feel bad, they just donate money and don't care that it doesn't make sense. In the case of the bus driver, everyone acted like I was mean for saying we shouldn't donate all of this.


 
true and with enough people even just a dollar adds up but this was for a project so again i don't know why people would keep donating when it's over 20 times the requested amount


----------



## Zaru (Sep 29, 2012)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> The real problem is that by her doing this and taking the money and running off she makes other feminists look dishonest and gives men a reason not to trust them...not like they needed a reason.



Dishonest feminists

More news at 11


----------



## Golden Circle (Sep 29, 2012)

Rule 19: The more you hate it, the stronger it gets.

Were you expecting anything else to happen?


----------



## Zaru (Sep 29, 2012)

She's actually in Sweden right now. 

Guess who paid for THAT flight.


----------



## Yachiru (Sep 29, 2012)

Okay, kindly let me ask one thing:

WHY IN THE BLUE HELL IS THIS WOMAN MAKING 100K!?!?


----------



## Stalin (Sep 29, 2012)

Because a trolls overreacted to her and made threats of beating her up and other insults. People came to her side. Some dude even made a game where you can beat her up


----------



## EJ (Sep 29, 2012)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Remember a while back how that bus driver got verbally abused by the students and people donated all that money because they felt bad. Even though the abuse was just some kids being dicks? It's the same thing here, people see a high profile story and they feel bad, they just donate money and don't care that it doesn't make sense. In the case of the bus driver, everyone acted like I was mean for saying we shouldn't donate all of this.



Man, I wish I got money for being picked on in the bus in elementary school once and awhile.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 29, 2012)

Stalin said:


> Because a trolls overreacted to her and made threats of beating her up and other insults. People came to her side. Some dude even made a game where you can beat her up


Being that she studies this kind of thing she could have kind of expected it. Not saying it's right, but the fact of the matter is that when women do things like this online they get a lot of shit for it.


----------



## Blue (Sep 29, 2012)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Being that she studies this kind of thing she could have kind of expected it.


Still not getting it, huh? She did expect it. She encouraged it. She put it out for the world to see. 

And the world saw, and stupidity took hold the hearts of men.


----------



## Nikushimi (Sep 29, 2012)

That Wikipedia page...


----------



## Doge (Sep 29, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> Still not getting it, huh? She did expect it. She encouraged it. She put it out for the world to see.
> 
> And the world saw, and stupidity took hold the hearts of men.



It's like putting a kick me sign on your back and having another person expect people not to kick.


----------



## Gunners (Sep 29, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> Courtesy :
> 
> 
> 
> ...




This makes me laugh at the bunch of fools who fought they were fighting for a cause/doing what was right.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 29, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> Still not getting it, huh? She did expect it. She encouraged it. She put it out for the world to see.
> 
> And the world saw, and stupidity took hold the hearts of men.





lvl80elitetaurenchieftain said:


> It's like putting a kick me sign on your back and having another person expect people not to kick.


This is bullshit for the same reasons that people blaming Innocence of Muslims for the reaction it caused is bullshit. 

Women need to speak out because though they're the majority they're treated like property and expected to bend to the whims of men. Even some so called feminists are guilty of trying to gain power through use of their sexuality which is at best using yourself to get men to give you what you want instead of getting it for yourself. 

She put it out there because that's how you get funding for a Kickstarter. You only have 30-60 days to raise the target goal and if you fail, the money goes back to the people who are funding it. If she set out to show the world what kind of animals some men can be, kudos to her for that part. 

I don't get this blame people for the reactions some miniscule thing they do causes. When we watch the Dark Knight we don't blame the Joker's plan for being fucked up and thus the boats just magically didn't detonate? No, we recognize that the good in people made them not do it. It's the opposite here, she handed out all they needed to blast her, instead of shutting up or trying to have an open discussion they acted like misogynistic fucking mouth breathers. The blame rests completely and totally on them.


----------



## Gino (Sep 29, 2012)

Is there a reason this thread has been revived serious question?


----------



## Gunners (Sep 29, 2012)

No the blame should be equally distributed. Someone asking for 6k is going to question any sane person's sensibilities and as a result they are going to get trolled. Were the reactions overboard? Yes but at the same time I can't imagine the reactions being any prettier if I set up a kick start asking people to give me 6k so I could create a Youtube video on how black people are portrayed as gruff and abrasiveness in video games. 

Her requests were audacious and she is a con artist ( Blame). The trolls overreacted giving her unneeded exposure ( blame). Idiotic chumps who felt as though their pointless contribution amounted to them doing good in the world are also to blame for not seeing through her bullshit.


----------



## Doge (Sep 29, 2012)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Women need to speak out because though they're the majority they're treated like property and expected to bend to the whims of men. Even some so called feminists are guilty of trying to gain power through use of their sexuality which is at best using yourself to get men to give you what you want instead of getting it for yourself.



You obviously have never seen a married couple before 

On the serious side though, I find this quite stereotypical.  Not all men treat women like objects.  Some do, but most definitely not all, as some women treat men as objects, but definitely not all.  

And I agree, there is a difference between actually getting something for yourself and using your gender status as a stepping stool.  Although, I'd be more for equality for all humans and try to break down barriers of feminism.  Feminism is only for females.  Humanist is for everyone, including females.  In no way would that degrade the female gender as their rights would be fought for.


Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> She put it out there because that's how you get funding for a Kickstarter. You only have 30-60 days to raise the target goal and if you fail, the money goes back to the people who are funding it. If she set out to show the world what kind of animals some men can be, kudos to her for that part.



Agreed.  Especially with the underlined.

She is free to point out common gender roles.  As long as men aren't being targeted as a whole, I find no fault in it.  Though, the interwebz isn't as kind.  It's expected for the cesspool to make an appearance at things like this.  Of course she doesn't deserve it, but there is a difference in what constitutes a "kick me" sign in the interwebz and the rest of the world.




Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I don't get this blame people for the reactions some miniscule thing they do causes. When we watch the Dark Knight we don't blame the Joker's plan for being fucked up and thus the people just decided not to detonate the boats. We recognize that the good in people made them not do it. It's the opposite here, she handed out all they needed to blast her, instead of shutting up or trying to have an open discussion they acted like misogynistic fucking mouth breathers. The blame rests completely and totally on them.



Did you expect anything else from the internet?


----------



## drache (Sep 29, 2012)

Gunners said:


> No the blame should be equally distributed. Someone asking for 6k is going to question any sane person's sensibilities and as a result they are going to get trolled. Were the reactions overboard? Yes but at the same time I can't imagine the reactions being any prettier if I set up a kick start asking people to give me 6k so I could create a Youtube video on how black people are portrayed as gruff and abrasiveness in video games.
> 
> Her requests were audacious and she is a con artist ( Blame). The trolls overreacted giving her unneeded exposure ( blame). Idiotic chumps who felt as though their pointless contribution amounted to them doing good in the world are also to blame for not seeing through her bullshit.


 
That's bullshit people *choose* to act and those idiots *choose* to act like degernate, misogynsitic mouth breathers.

Blaming her for other peoples' actions is just plain dumb


----------



## Gino (Sep 29, 2012)

Heh Guess I'll never know...


----------



## josh101 (Sep 29, 2012)

Gino said:


> Heh Guess I'll never know...


Try actually seeing why the thread got necro'd. New information about her bailing with the money was posted, that's why people are discussing it. 

Anyways, I've heard this chick was spamming her shit on 4chan to begin with anyway, trying to provoke the trolls for a reaction to get this kind of publicity. You don't fucking poke a bear and then expect it not to bite your hand off. 

Also, again, the insults weren't that bad. A couple nasty, threatening insults were thrown at her but the majority of them were arguing that she was a corn artist for asking for that much money and arguing about male tropes in video games. Whole thing was blown way out of proportion by a bunch of militant feminists and white-knight virgin ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".).


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 29, 2012)

josh101 said:


> Also, again, the insults weren't that bad. A couple nasty, threatening insults were thrown at her but the majority of them were arguing that she was a *corn artist* for asking for that much money and arguing about male tropes in video games. Whole thing was blown way out of proportion by a bunch of militant feminists and white-knight virgin ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".).


What's a corn artist? Someone who makes pictures by gluing corn to paper?


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## Gino (Sep 29, 2012)

josh101 said:


> Try actually seeing why the thread got necro'd. *New information about her bailing with the money* was posted, that's why people are discussing it.




So I didn't need to actually read without already coming to that conclusion nice.


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## Revolution (Sep 30, 2012)

Funniest wikipedia page ever!


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## Zaru (Sep 30, 2012)

Didn't think I'd say this in her defense, but according to her twitter (where the Sweden thing is coming from), she's actually visiting the DICE headquarters (Battlefield Series, Mirror's Edge) or something in Sweden. To give speeches of her propaganda, of course, but there's still hope she might actually do this as part of the promised videos.

Kickstarter backers can cling to this shred of hope.


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## Detective (Sep 30, 2012)

Zaru said:


> She's actually in Sweden right now.
> 
> Guess who paid for THAT flight.



Not Julian Assange, that's for sure.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Sep 30, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> also, wait, bayonetta wasn't a parody?


It was a parody of a parody which ended up not being a parody at all.


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## Detective (Sep 30, 2012)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> It was a parody of a parody which ended up not being a parody at all.



That would be an autobiographical interpretation then, with some liberties taken.

:amazed


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## Frostman (Sep 30, 2012)

She has my sympathy. But only because she is an attractive female.


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## AmigoOne (Sep 30, 2012)

I guessed there would definitely at least 1 person posting in this thread defending her. And I guessed right. Resident white knight. We all know who it is.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 30, 2012)

AmigoOne said:


> I guessed there would definitely at least 1 person posting in this thread defending her. And I guessed right. Resident white knight. We all know who it is.


No one is defending her, but you can't argue with the fact that there's something wrong with the portrayal of women in media or the reactions some of these men had, even the video about the situation states the same thing.


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## Mexican God Lvl 3 (Sep 30, 2012)

IF she really is over at DICE, then gay.

DICE shouldnt be allowing her to go over there and talk about her agenda and shit.

We dont need feminism to spread.

The feminist agenda is all bull shit.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Sep 30, 2012)

Mexican God Lvl 3 said:


> IF she really is over at DICE, then gay.
> 
> DICE shouldnt be allowing her to go over there and talk about her agenda and shit.
> 
> ...


Yeah, sure. You realize if this place were an office you'd have been fired years ago for sexual harassment, right? 

I mean I can link all kinds of things that talk about the reason why feminism isn't bullshit, not that it matters with the crowd on these forums. They boast about the enlightenment until it comes to women, then you'd think you'd pulled a pack Catholics from back in time around the 1300s.


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## Mexican God Lvl 3 (Sep 30, 2012)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> *Yeah, sure. You realize if this place were an office you'd have been fired years ago for sexual harassment, right?
> *
> I mean I can link all kinds of things that talk about the reason why feminism isn't bullshit, not that it matters with the crowd on these forums. They boast about the enlightenment until it comes to women, then you'd think you'd pulled a pack Catholics from back in time around the 1300s.



And that is whats clearly wrong with this world.

We keep babying things more and more. 

Whatever happened to developing thicker skin?


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## Saufsoldat (Sep 30, 2012)

Mexican God Lvl 3 said:


> And that is whats clearly wrong with this world.
> 
> We keep babying things more and more.
> 
> Whatever happened to developing thicker skin?



I'm afraid free speech doesn't cover harrassment.


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## impersonal (Sep 30, 2012)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> Still not getting it, huh? She did expect it. She encouraged it. She put it out for the world to see.
> 
> And the world saw, and stupidity took hold the hearts of men.





lvl80elitetaurenchieftain said:


> It's like putting a kick me sign on your back and having another person expect people not to kick.


Girls should know that there's sexism on the internet, therefore they should stay off the internet... Or they shouldn't complain when they get death threats, because it's to be expected. That's your reasoning.

I would like to show you how wrong it is, but frankly, if you can't see it for yourself, I'm afraid there's nothing I can do. My personal impression is that you're both sexist (and/or anti-feminist, which would be slightly better) as hell and trying your best to hide your sentiment behind any argument you can find, however terrible.

Oh yeah, about her running away with the money. Firstly, let me inform you that "the stories and information posted [there] are artistic works of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted [there] as fact.", meaning that your own source called you a fool. Furthermore, here's what she posted two months ago:


> (...)
> The researching phase has begun! So far we’ve purchased well over 300 games for this project. As of now we can play games from the following systems: SNES, Gamecube, Wii, PS2, PS3, PS Vita, Xbox, Xbox 360, iPad and PC/MAC. We are also looking to acquire a 3DS XL when it becomes available next month. Note that not all of the games being researched for this project are pictured above. All the digital games downloaded via Steam, PSN and XBLM are sadly not nearly as photogenic, but rest assured we are looking at classic titles from throughout the history of gaming.
> 
> As a result of the unexpected extra Kickstarter funding *I can now commit full-time* to Feminist Frequency and to this video series which is truly a dream come true for me! I can now also *hire my producer full-time* for this project. *Plus we are in the process of bringing another writer/researcher on board part-time.* So far I’ve chosen to keep my small crew out of the limelight to try and shield them from any potential harassment. When I feel it is safe and appropriate to introduce them I will.
> ...



So yeah, there's no real indication that she "ran with the money". Rather, it seems that she's trying to use the money for her project in the best possible way, by hiring people. *Even if she did,* that would make her an asshole, but that wouldn't make her harassers any better.

Now, all that being said: I can understand some of the dislike for "women studies". This stuff typically focuses exclusively on the plight of women, completely ignoring bias against men. For example, video games often encourage ridiculous tropes about male characters: some are muscle-bound, deep-voiced badasses which are sure to make awkward teenagers insecure. Others are insensitive killers, most of the villains and killing fodder are male, etc. Overall, focusing on a single aspect of gender representations can lead to a biased worldview, okay.

But that's no excuse for sandwich and kitchen-based insults or death threats. And furthermore, if it is unfair that one gender gets more attention, then the correct answer is to start fighting against tropes on the other gender _as well_, not to ruin everybody's efforts. Sexism is still prevalent, including in video games to some extent, and it's a good thing that some people are doing something about it.


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## blakstealth (Sep 30, 2012)

Zaru said:


> Didn't think I'd say this in her defense, but according to her twitter (where the Sweden thing is coming from), she's actually visiting the DICE headquarters (Battlefield Series, Mirror's Edge) or something in Sweden. To give speeches of her propaganda, of course, but there's still hope she might actually do this as part of the promised videos.
> 
> Kickstarter backers can cling to this shred of hope.


Why DICE of all places, though? The only recent game DICE ever made that included a female as a MC was Faith in Mirror's Edge like you mentioned. I haven't played the game, but I'm pretty sure she didn't portray women poorly. lulz


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## Esponer (Sep 30, 2012)

impersonal said:


> Kunoichi no Kiri said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Blue's not being sexist or anti-feminist. He's not defending the handful of people who harassed her: he's putting forward a theory that Anita Sarkeesian was playing the Internet for profit.

Here's the theory step-by-step:



Advertise her Kickstarter project all over the Internet in a way that NF would ban her for in a heartbeat, and appear to _specifically_ target the most notoriously sexist sites. In doing so…
…attract abuse from slightly "more than a dozen IP addresses".
Publicise this abuse as much as possible to create a news story out of it. In doing so…
…attract support and (more importantly) $160,000 from sympathetic 'white knight' characters who now associate her with _all_ victimised women.
Keep all the money, despite the moral thing being to keep the $6,000 goal (or a reasonable % more if there's a stretch plan) and give the rest to womens' rights charities.

No-one's saying that what happened in Step 2 was okay, but the theory here is that she _intentionally_ caused it. It's like how on NF you can be banned for flamebait, but it doesn't mean those that flamed you are any less bad.

The theory might not be true, and I'm not as convinced as Blue is, but it's a perfectly reasonable theory and consistent with feminism. In fact "I am a feminist and Anita Sarkeesian is a woman who happens to be a manipulative scumbag" is more honestly feminist than "I am a feminist and Anita Sarkeesian is a woman and therefore a poor victim of the actions of men".


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## Toby (Sep 30, 2012)

So according to , the final project deadline is not officially stated anywhere. She has only promised August as a tentative date for the first installment. We can continue to rage or wait for an update. She has not posted to her site since August 1st but promises that something will be available for later fall / early winter. 



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Her videos on tropes were pretty good (except for the Bechdel Test, it doesn't take into consideration not all movies can have female characters). Honestly she could have put the money to use if she really meant to, like taking trips to talk to game creators or fans at conventions. But it seems that she won't be doing that.



That is what a researcher should do. Do you think she is going to go through with that? I doubt it. Thus far she looks more like a campaigner than a researcher. Frankly, with a 150,000 budget, she should be able to do something good. But that is precisely why her critics are going to be even harsher if she fails to be fair and produce an insightful answer.


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## Doge (Sep 30, 2012)

> Girls should know that there's sexism on the internet, therefore they should stay off the internet... Or they shouldn't complain when they get death threats, because it's to be expected. That's your reasoning.



No, that is not my reasoning behind it.  For example, if someone went straight to a hardcore muslim congregation and started screaming about women's rights being violated, mohammad, etc., they would be liable to be hurt or even killed.  

What happened here is a watered down version of that same issue.  She clearly knew that the internet would do what it has always done, and there was no reason to expect anything different.  I never said she should get death threats, but it's pretty damn expected.  



> I would like to show you how wrong it is, but frankly, if you can't see it for yourself, I'm afraid there's nothing I can do. My personal impression is that you're both sexist (and/or anti-feminist, which would be slightly better) as hell and trying your best to hide your sentiment behind any argument you can find, however terrible.



I'm not anti-muslim, yet I know for a fact that putting up controversial crap in a known forum that would incite contempt is completely stupid.

I'm not anti-woman, but I know for a fact that putting up something that points out injustice towards women in such a way would only incite the historically sexist nature of the internet to come out.  I'm sorry if you can't understand that.  



> Oh yeah, about her running away with the money. Firstly, let me inform you that "the stories and information posted [there] are artistic works of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted [there] as fact.", meaning that your own source called you a fool. Furthermore, here's what she posted two months ago:



Nothing on 4chan has any truth attached to it I assume.  Go ahead and prove it wrong then.  Unless of course, making an internet video for free in the mean time is too tall a task.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Oct 1, 2012)

Toby said:


> So according to , the final project deadline is not officially stated anywhere. She has only promised August as a tentative date for the first installment. We can continue to rage or wait for an update. She has not posted to her site since August 1st but promises that something will be available for later fall / early winter.
> 
> 
> 
> That is what a researcher should do. Do you think she is going to go through with that? I doubt it. Thus far she looks more like a campaigner than a researcher. Frankly, with a 150,000 budget, she should be able to do something good. But that is precisely why her critics are going to be even harsher if she fails to be fair and produce an insightful answer.



I don't think she can make a 150,000 worth of video, like I said with 6 grand she could have traveled to Japan and other places where games were being made and spoke to some people and arranged some interviews or something. 150,000 is enough to make a small budget theatrical film.


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## scerpers (Oct 1, 2012)

You guys are still talking about this jewess?


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