# could any naruto character survive nuclear bombs?



## Cthulhu-versailles (Apr 28, 2014)

they got to survive being blown up by all ten bombs in the video (point blank) and be able live in the detonation area( edit- let,s say konaho is the detonation area) for 1 year after.
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rElV_w_DPQ[/YOUTUBE]

can anyone do it?????


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## Volt manta (Apr 28, 2014)

No...?
Unless Naruto characters are exceptionally radiation proof now.


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## Risyth (Apr 28, 2014)

Oh, shut up. 

And wrong section.


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## Kazu (Apr 29, 2014)

Do we consider radiation durability ignoring?

As far as I know, it isn't.

Plus, there's the whole thing with bijuu being energy beings or some shit.


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## Regicide (Apr 29, 2014)

Kazu said:


> Do we consider radiation durability ignoring?
> 
> As far as I know, it isn't.


I think the radiation argument got thrown out on account of characters being capable of tanking far greater amounts of energy or some shit. 

Would have to dig up the relevant posts to make sure.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Apr 29, 2014)

Kazu said:


> Do we consider radiation durability ignoring?
> 
> As far as I know, it isn't.
> 
> Plus, there's the whole thing with bijuu being energy beings or some shit.



That's what I've been seeing for the most part


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## Risyth (Apr 29, 2014)

I thought radiation affected amino acids and genes, or whatever. I'd search, but crazy shit would come up that I'd rather not see.

It definitely bypasses physical durability, though, like in real life.


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## willyvereb (Apr 29, 2014)

Radiation is nothing more than just hi-energy that does random shit to your body.
Also when dealing with extreme heats like kilotons of thermal enery and such with fuck-huge temperatures then that would also release tons of radiation.
In short characters who can survive massive amount of heat energy should be also capable of dealing with radiation left behind with nukes.

Albeit nukes have other effects like leaving the character in vacuum (can be resisted via durability), deprive air for a while and stuff the atmosphere full of heavy metal particles.
So a character also needs to be capable of holding his breath for a while and capable of shruging off metal poisoning.


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## Risyth (Apr 29, 2014)

> Albeit nukes have other effects like leaving the character in vacuum (can be resisted via durability)



That counts as durability? Holding your breath? Since I get what else the decrease in air pressure would normally do to one.



> Radiation is nothing more than just hi-energy that does random shit to your body.


Simplified x100, but I'll be damned if I'm going to look up exactly how radiation affects the body. All I know is that it messes with the amino acids in DNA.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Apr 29, 2014)

Radiation fucks you up because it goes right into your cells and fucks their DNA up, this leads to cancer and stuff because your body is actually surprisingly shit at repairing DNA, it never has to do it after all. This only happens with Gamma rays, alpha rays and beta rays don't penetrate far enough because they're actually particles with mass, while Gamma rays are Electromagnetic radiation.

You need incredibly dense materials like depleted uranium or lead to shield yourself from Gamma radiation and you need a lot of it. Technically Naruto is neither dense, nor incredibly massive because fiction doesn't work like that, on the other hand he can tank however many gigatons to the face and come out smelling of roses, not something an ordinary human could ever do.

This suggests that durability in Naruto is something intangible, it's not just density at play, it logically follows that Naruto, if he can tank something that exerts that much energy on him, can tank some amount of Gamma Radiation, exactly how much I wouldn't have a clue, but I'd hazard a guess it'd be more than Little Boy at least.


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## Scratchy (Apr 29, 2014)

radiation breaks the bonds between atoms, thus destroying molecules. it isn't specific to amino acids, nor would it harm any higher tier naruto characters



> it never has to do it after all.



not true, btw


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## Risyth (Apr 29, 2014)

Nightbringer said:


> Radiation fucks you up because it goes right into your cells and fucks their DNA up, this leads to cancer and stuff because your body is actually surprisingly shit at repairing DNA, it never has to do it after all. This only happens with Gamma rays, alpha rays and beta rays don't penetrate far enough because they're actually particles with mass, while Gamma rays are Electromagnetic radiation.
> 
> You need incredibly dense materials like depleted uranium or lead to shield yourself from Gamma radiation and you need a lot of it. Technically Naruto is neither dense, nor incredibly massive because fiction doesn't work like that, on the other hand he can tank however many gigatons to the face and come out smelling of roses, not something an ordinary human could ever do.
> 
> This suggests that durability in Naruto is something intangible, it's not just density at play, it logically follows that Naruto, if he can tank something that exerts that much energy on him, can tank some amount of Gamma Radiation, exactly how much I wouldn't have a clue, but I'd hazard a guess it'd be more than Little Boy at least.



Thanks. I had to read your post in reply mode because I couldn't stop laughing at that avatar. 

I mostly see concussive energy in Naruto being tanked. I wouldn't put that on the same level--or rather, in the same category--as radiation.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Apr 29, 2014)

Scratchy said:


> radiation breaks the bonds between atoms, thus destroying molecules. it isn't specific to amino acids, nor would it harm any higher tier naruto characters
> 
> 
> 
> not true, btw







Risyth said:


> Thanks. I had to read your post in reply mode because I couldn't stop laughing at that avatar.
> 
> I mostly see concussive energy in Naruto being tanked. I wouldn't put that on the same level--or rather, in the same category--as radiation.





category of energy doesn't really matter as much as people like to think, it's all about intensity and how efficient the transfer is, this is why swords cut better than clubs, even though the energy is ~equivalent. We can apply such a simple principle to gamma radiation, it's a large amount of energy spread over an incredibly tiny area, so it can do pretty much whatever it wants to, whether that be destroying DNA or turning people into the hulk. It's important to remember though, that it's still at the base of it all just energy and if your durability is high enough it would probably protect you.

If Superman punched a guy in the face and he survived, chances are that man won't be dying by radiation to the face anytime soon, because no matter how small the energy spread is, Superman can punch apart planets and that is much higher.


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## Risyth (Apr 29, 2014)

I thought that was because gamma radiation was essentially intangible?

Agh, it's late. Just tear me up, if you will....


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## shade0180 (Apr 29, 2014)

Radiation is one of a by-product of energy.. the moment you can produce kiloton level of energy. you are already producing heat and radiation.......... concussion, piercing explosive doesn't change that.

And concussive energy is not a thing.. you either have concentrated  or Area of effect.... both energy can cause a concussion...


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## Risyth (Apr 29, 2014)

No, the gamma radiation comes from nuclear fusion/fission...nuclear reactions. A kiloton of energy won't have natural accompanying radiation in any case I can think of.

Concussive as in mostly a shockwave force and that only, thus lacking heat compared to...ugh, something like the sun again. I guess.... Any nuclear explosion where the nuclei of two atoms are melded, releasing gamma rays as a byproduct.


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## shade0180 (Apr 29, 2014)

There are multiple ways to produce gamma radiation/ray.... what you explained is just one of it..

...



> gamma rays are also produced by a number of astronomical processes in which *very high-energy electrons are produced*



There's also this process


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## willyvereb (Apr 29, 2014)

Risyth said:


> I thought that was because gamma radiation was essentially intangible?
> 
> Agh, it's late. Just tear me up, if you will....


If it were like that then we wouldn't have any issues with it to begin with.
Just like how neutrino radiation is no concern.
True, due to its high speed and such the gamma radiation i only getting absorbed poorly, but it does.
That's how it causes cancer.

And nah, gamma radiation isn't really that concentrated.
If anything the inverse square law applies to it a lot.
The problem is that each particle can penetrate a fair amount of protection yet in enough quantities it'll be absorbed in your body sufficiently to cause problems.
Basically imagine physical bodies like a castle made of cheese.
It has tons of gaping holes through which the tiny photons of the gamma radiation can pass through.
Yet these gaps aren't aligned in any sane order, neither the radiation is shot deliberately to pass through these.
So some particles are bound to hit something.
The said energy is absorbed which will cause harm to the body.

In short, radiation is no different from regular destructive attacks.
Except it works on small-scale and more or less random.
In short for somebody whose body is X times tougher than a human would require about X times more radiation to be lethal.
But well, such comparison is difficult.
In general we can just say that dudes who can take massive heat can also withstand the radiation caused by nukes of similar power.
There are also characters like Solid Snake who have direct feats of surviving retarded amount of radiation (enough to vaporize people, to be precise).


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## Scratchy (Apr 29, 2014)

willyvereb said:


> True, due to its high speed and such the gamma radiation i only getting absorbed poorly, but it does.
> That's how it causes cancer.



isn't it _because_ of its kinetic energy that radiation is ionizing?

and even if it caused damage, regeneration like the one naruto displayed would be enough to negate all of it


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## Risyth (Apr 29, 2014)

shade0180 said:


> There are multiple ways to produce gamma radiation/ray.... what you explained is just one of it..
> 
> ...
> 
> ...



The explosion you gave isn't anywhere near going to charge those protons enough.  And the electrons are still fusing.



willyvereb said:


> If it were like that then we wouldn't have any issues with it to begin with.
> Just like how neutrino radiation is no concern.
> True, due to its high speed and such the gamma radiation i only getting absorbed poorly, but it does.
> That's how it causes cancer.
> ...



That's a perfect explanation. Thanks.


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## Orochibuto (Apr 29, 2014)

Juubi Jinchuurikis and above should be able to do it, Jewbito got blown into half (including half of his head I think) and regenerated, Madara after absorbing the Tree supposedly got regenerating powers unseen by Narutoverse so far.

Naruto is basically a Juubi Jin so he should too.


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## willyvereb (Apr 29, 2014)

Scratchy said:


> isn't it _because_ of its kinetic energy that radiation is ionizing?


I'm no expert in this but my general idea is that ionizing radiation just means you input energy into a system which then causes changes.
Basically the mix of causing burns and adding some needed extra heat energy for certain unwelcome chemical reactions to occour.
Just like how UV light causes chlorine to dissipate. 



> and even if it caused damage, regeneration like the one naruto displayed would be enough to negate all of it


Yup.
Against such small damages as what's caused by radiation, even a slight amount of regen could do miracles.
The only problem is if your regen if your regen just dumbly causes rapid cell multiplication instead of being the magical self-healing time.
Unfortunatelly, many regeneration methods in Naruto are that.
So even if they can reenerate, it won't correct the damage in DNA
Actually, it may even accelerate the effects thus causing various huge tumors in the body.
Albeit Tsunade apparently has a way to eliminate such tumors so she should be definietly capable of handling the effects of radiation poisoning.


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## shade0180 (Apr 29, 2014)

Risyth said:


> The explosion you gave isn't anywhere near going to charge those protons enough.  And the electrons are still fusing.
> .



Just drop the scale shit since we have 2 or more size of energy attack in fiction.... 

Basically in fiction you can have an energy equating to a Big Bang the size of your fist or even your pinkie, seriously that's how it works, while a town level energy the size of a town....

That doesn't mean the energy in the fist is weaker than the town size energy and won't create radiation.....


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## Nighty the Mighty (Apr 29, 2014)

actually most *regen* in Naruto is magic self healing


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## Risyth (Apr 29, 2014)

shade0180 said:


> Just drop the scale shit since we have 2 or more size of energy attack in fiction....
> 
> Basically in fiction you can have an energy equating to a Big Bang the size of your fist or even your pinkie, seriously that's how it works, while a town level energy the size of a town....
> 
> That doesn't mean the energy in the fist is weaker than the town size energy and won't create radiation.....



It's not about scaling the explosion. It's about the speed of the particles. Both protons and electrons need to go so fast as to destroy each other to release a gamma ray. Nuclei need to fuse from high speed impacts. We're not talking low, mid, or high supersonic speeds.

...I'm tired now.


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## shade0180 (Apr 29, 2014)

and he still didn't get it.......


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## Risyth (Apr 29, 2014)

Scratchy said:


> isn't it _because_ of its kinetic energy that radiation is ionizing?
> 
> and even if it caused damage, regeneration like the one naruto displayed would be enough to negate all of it



It's the heat introduced to a system of molecules, separating them, that ionizes them through dissociation. 



> and he still didn't get it.......



Good for you, buddy.


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## willyvereb (Apr 29, 2014)

Nightbringer said:


> actually most *regen* in Naruto is magic self healing


Well, it might be.
I mean Narutoverse have Edo Tensei and characters who can insert foreign bodies into themselves and then make it their own.
That works.
On the other hand Tsunade's kind of regen and those used by Jinchuriki are based on accelerated but "natural" healing.
Tsunade makes special note to these shortening the life of the users because of the cells aging faster.
So those wouldn't be able to handle radiation poisoning.
Albeit, like I said, Tsunade probably has methods of her own to combat this.


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## Stermor (Apr 29, 2014)

isn't the easy answer. chakra works like a massivly dense lead shield? everybody happy and now naruto chars can tank nukes..


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## Shiorin (Apr 29, 2014)

Fuck huge temperatures - your proteins get unfolded but the peptide bonds are intact. The folded structure of proteins are what define their function, so you get tissue damage, barring necrosis, infection, or being turned into ash. Nardo doesn't fear this. Thermodynamics GTFO my shōnen.

Fuck huge radiation - your DNA's chemical backbone is broken on both sides. Your mom actually gave you 3 ways to fix this but your cells are dumb so for most of them it's GG. Even if you think you tanked it, get life insurance because what are stochastic effects.

Nukes? Package deal. This thread? Overestimating Kishi.


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## ZenithXAbyss (Apr 29, 2014)

> In short characters who can survive massive amount of heat energy should be also capable of dealing with radiation left behind with nukes.


Honestly, i always find that pretty suspect.
They don't show effects of actually having that kind of heat afterall.
Doesn't lead to shit like Radioactivity, firestorms, etc.
Might be a case of overanalysing things.
That, and the authors having not enough knowledge about it.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 29, 2014)

any top-tier can try to get tans from nukes


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## Blanco (Apr 29, 2014)

They die from cancer


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## Sir Cool Blizzard (Apr 29, 2014)

Top tiers use susanoo, bijuu mode cloak, gudoudama sheet etc etc to protect themselves from the effects of radiation.....easy as that!!


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Apr 29, 2014)

goku falls to futuristic heart disease
wonderwoman is effected by radiation in various incarnation. so are many country+ tankers
 poison in toriko can one shot people within verse
gamma radiation is still lethal to random high end bricks in marvel

but people randomly decided none of the above matter because insert 'surviving explosion' means you can shrug off 'anything'.

that about right?

edit8- above mostly in ref to the one who said they get tans...


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## Regicide (Apr 29, 2014)

Wonder how long it takes before we start arguing characters well up there in durability being injured by freefall is legit.


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## Iwandesu (Apr 29, 2014)

Cthulhu-versailles said:


> *goku falls to futuristic heart disease*
> wonderwoman is effected by radiation in various incarnation. so are many country+ tankers
> *poison in toriko can one shot people within verse*
> gamma radiation is still lethal to random high end bricks in marvel
> edit8- above mostly in ref to the one who said they get tans...


Why alien's heart disease would means jack to radiation arguments. 
you needed superpoison to beat even first arcs toriko and CIA.


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## Totally not a cat (Apr 29, 2014)

Well, is this not a silly thread. Reminds me of Yamamoto's He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 30, 2014)

Yamamoto irradiates Juudara with his sun-bankais gamma rays

Juudara dies


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## ZenithXAbyss (Apr 30, 2014)

Regicide said:


> Wonder how long it takes before we start arguing characters well up there in durability being injured by freefall is legit.



What does this have to do with the thread?


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## Nighty the Mighty (Apr 30, 2014)

Cthulhu-versailles said:


> goku falls to futuristic heart disease
> wonderwoman is effected by radiation in various incarnation. so are many country+ tankers
> poison in toriko can one shot people within verse
> gamma radiation is still lethal to random high end bricks in marvel
> ...



What is, all fiction is different and there is no consistent standard to apply to every work ever?


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## Mr. Black Leg (Apr 30, 2014)

Wow, good two-three pages of debate .

I'm impressed no one comented on the title "*can* any naruto character *could *survive nuclear bombs? "

And I'm even more impressed that no one brought this video :

[YOUTUBE]JBfjU3_XOaA[/YOUTUBE]


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## Risyth (Apr 30, 2014)

It's a typo. They happen. Not even worth bringing up unless they're particularly egregious.



> It's the heat introduced to a system of molecules, separating them, that ionizes them through dissociation.


In this process of ionization, I'd like to add that it doesn't happen until well into hypersonic speeds in particle motion, where the heat caused by friction between them is well into the thousands of degrees Fahrenheit.


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## War With Words (Apr 30, 2014)

No. The heat alone would incinerate them. The explosion's force would likely f' them up, and the radiation kills all of them.


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## Risyth (Apr 30, 2014)

War With Words said:


> No. The heat alone would incinerate them. The explosion's force would likely f' them up, and the radiation kills all of them.



That force is the shockwave that stems from the drop in air pressure central to the explosion as the molecules of air blast outward from it.


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## AgentAAA (Apr 30, 2014)

War With Words said:


> No. The heat alone would incinerate them. The explosion's force would likely f' them up, and the radiation kills all of them.



They take more heat and explosive force from some of the character's physical blows - let alone the bijuu-dama - than they would from a tsar bomba. The radiation remains a point of debate.


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## willyvereb (Apr 30, 2014)

Moe like it isn't.
Radiation of a nuke shouldn't be an issue for characters who take the heat energy euivalent of megatons of TNT yield.


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## Totally not a cat (Apr 30, 2014)

Heat is also presented as radiation (used in many of our calcs), and radiation only seems lethal because of our own frailness (when compared to shounen heroes).
If a character has proven to be tough enough to withstand high energy attacks then there's no basis to assume the same character wouldn't be able to withstand radiation (or any form of energy) equivalent to that attack, given that the attack itself isn't transmitting radiation (good luck on that).

All in all, this thread is based on a misunderstanding of physic mechanics and phenomena. It might as well die already.


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## Nep Heart (Apr 30, 2014)

mfw, even a person who has a meme for a username and set is forced to explain how radiation works... Some of the OBD never ceases to amaze me on how incompetent can really be.


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Apr 30, 2014)

Totally not a cat said:


> Heat is also presented as radiation (used in many of our calcs), and radiation only seems lethal because of our own frailness (when compared to shounen heroes).
> If a character has proven to be tough enough to withstand high energy attacks then there's no basis to assume the same character wouldn't be able to withstand radiation (or any form of energy) equivalent to that attack, given that the attack itself isn't transmitting radiation (good luck on that).
> 
> All in all, this thread is based on a misunderstanding of physic mechanics and phenomena. It might as well die already.



that's a neat little package there. the only problem i see is that dozens of characters in marvel and dc comics (they are the go to example because the medium tends to have fight against all sort of shit) fly in the face of it with more susceptibility to specific things that "they should be able to tank". not talking like magic weakness or some shit either. just generic  heat, cold, etc type shit that they should in theory be ignoring given their durability.  why hand wave across the board? 

as for naru, i forgot most of the upper echelon have some kind of auto-regen. lol. there are like little wolverine's


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## Risyth (Apr 30, 2014)

Totally not a cat said:


> Heat is also presented as radiation (used in many of our calcs), and radiation only seems lethal because of our own frailness (when compared to shounen heroes).
> If a character has proven to be tough enough to withstand high energy attacks then there's no basis to assume the same character wouldn't be able to withstand radiation (or any form of energy) equivalent to that attack, given that the attack itself isn't transmitting radiation (good luck on that).
> 
> All in all, this thread is based on a misunderstanding of physic mechanics and phenomena. It might as well die already.



I think the confusion stems from the lack of explanation for precisely _how_ radiation can lead to defected DNA. It doesn't seem like simple necrosis to me.



> as for naru, i forgot most of the upper echelon have some kind of auto-regen. lol. there are like little wolverine's


Don't compare Naruto's regen to Wolverine's....


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## shade0180 (Apr 30, 2014)

wolverine can still revive from a spill of blood... from what i recall Nardo is kind of low tiered compare to that..


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## Totally not a cat (May 1, 2014)

Cthulhu-versailles said:


> that's a neat little package there. the only problem i see is that dozens of characters in marvel and dc comics (they are the go to example because the medium tends to have fight against all sort of shit) fly in the face of it with more susceptibility to specific things that "they should be able to tank". not talking like magic weakness or some shit either. just generic  heat, cold, etc type shit that they should in theory be ignoring given their durability.  why hand wave across the board?
> 
> as for naru, i forgot most of the upper echelon have some kind of auto-regen. lol. there are like little wolverine's



I missed something on that post: "Unless specifically stated/proven otherwise". Given that authors don't tend to acknowledge physics when making _fiction_, these things can happen. There's also the possibility that it works like "Kryptonite" to serve as the special weakness of a certain character, but that would be quite inconvenient.

There _are_ exceptions (that I can't recall at the moment tbh), but those are not the basis. The basis is to go with what we're shown.


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## Risyth (May 2, 2014)

> There are exceptions (that I can't recall at the moment tbh), but those are not the basis. The basis is to go with what we're shown.


We've never shown them "tanking" radiation. And that wouldn't make any sort of sense anyway.


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## Risyth (May 2, 2014)

No, not per se.


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## NightmareCinema (May 2, 2014)

Yes, unfortunately... They can survive nuclear bombs.

But they can't survive a pipe bomb.

[YOUTUBE]zOVcgM_GtFk[/YOUTUBE]

Can't beat the Best In The World.


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## Risyth (May 2, 2014)

No, they aren't tanking nuclear bombs.


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## Iwandesu (May 2, 2014)

Risyth said:


> No, they aren't tanking nuclear bombs.


They are. a bijjudama produces way more heat and energy than our best 2 digit megaton bomb


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## NightmareCinema (May 2, 2014)

They can tank all the nuclear bombs they want but they still have nothing against a PIPE BOMB.


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## Risyth (May 2, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> They are. a bijjudama produces way more heat and energy than our best 2 digit megaton bomb



Ur just a fuckin wit me, iwan.

That aside, they aren't taking radiation (unless their bodies are structurally different, on a microscopic level).


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## Stan Lee (May 2, 2014)

Risyth said:


> Ur just a fuckin wit me, iwan.
> 
> That aside, they aren't taking radiation (*unless their bodies are structurally different, on a microscopic level*).



Bjiuu and Edos kinda are. The former being made out of chakra and the latter being dust/dirt.


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## Risyth (May 2, 2014)

If they have DNA...

...sorry, I had to cut off the sentence since I was playing an online VS lol.

If they have DNA, they aren't exempt from radiation. All radiation affects proteins, what makes DNA.


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## Iwandesu (May 2, 2014)

Risyth said:


> Ur just a fuckin wit me, iwan.
> That aside, they aren't taking radiation (unless their bodies are structurally different, on a microscopic level).


"A fuckin wit me" ? 
Google'd and i expect you ain't talking about the music. 
Anyway, even assuming you are right, radiation is not insta-killing anyone, they continue the War as nothing had happened and die for cancer at old age.
Kyuubi is the embodiments of "radiation" at nardo, and many characters like orochimaru, tsunade and edos can regenerate themselves from celular damage.
About dna thing, orochimaru and kabuto rewrote dna and proteins with edos so yeah, at least they, are likely immune to this supposed hax.


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## Risyth (May 2, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> "A fuckin wit me" ?
> Google'd and i expect you ain't talking about the music.
> Anyway, even assuming you are right, radiation is not insta-killing anyone, they continue the War as nothing had happened and die for cancer at old age.
> Kyuubi is the embodiments of "radiation" at nardo, and many characters like orochimaru, tsunade and edos can regenerate themselves from celular damage.


It ain't nothin' nice. 

Radiation doesn't damage the cells through necrosis, as other energy would. Rather, it destroys or mutates DNA. Gamma radiation destroys DNA. If they get enough of it, they're fucked.


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## Iwandesu (May 2, 2014)

Risyth said:


> It ain't nothin' nice.
> Radiation doesn't damage the cells through necrosis, as other energy would. Rather, it destroys or mutates DNA. Gamma radiation destroys DNA. If they get enough of it, they're fucked.


The thing is,  with enough energy everything should output a value of radiation. 
Let's quickly change the question,  what you classify as a radiation resistance feat?


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## Risyth (May 2, 2014)

That Naruto's shown? Nothing.


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## Totally not a cat (May 2, 2014)

Please re-read the thread.


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## Risyth (May 2, 2014)

I read the thread. I participated in it.

Please form a rational rebuttal.


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## Totally not a cat (May 2, 2014)

I don't need to, as other people already have and you _should_ know that, because like you said, you participated in it. (Note I said *re*-read).


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## Risyth (May 2, 2014)

If you can't debunk my logic, don't bother posting at me.

I never went with what was said, despite what you may think.


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## Scratchy (May 2, 2014)

radiation adds energy into a system.

and so do attacks that are worth gigatons of energy. why should naruto and co. be bothered by it?


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## Risyth (May 2, 2014)

You're not effectively describing radiation's effects and how it works. 

Worse still, you're lumping all kinds of radiation with all kinds of other energy, as if they'd all work in the exact same manner--a grand sin in any place but the current OBD.


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## Scratchy (May 2, 2014)

it's basically just denaturation. you don't just give radiation the magical properties to do what energies orders of magnitudes above that can't accomplish.


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## Iwandesu (May 2, 2014)

Risyth said:


> You're not effectively describing radiation's effects and how it works.
> Worse still, you're lumping all kinds of radiation with all kinds of other energy, as if they'd all work in the exact same manner--a grand sin in any place but the current OBD.



Edo Tensei can rewrote it's own dna and survive the explosion with easy.
Orochimaru and kabuto have more than one dna each which can easily change or replace.
kyuubi inner have a massive amount of chakra that affect your body almost exactly  how you are saying radiation do. (and we have many characters surviving against kyuubi "radiation".)


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## Risyth (May 2, 2014)

Heat energy = necrosis; cell death

Radiation...the only defense against X-Rays and Gamma Rays individually are antioxidants, which prevent or slow the formation of the free radicals of oxygen that occurs from the dissociation of molecules of water in the blood, because of the high energy particles that can have millions of a negative charge at a time.

I don't think you consider antioxidants in durability, do you? And free radicals, as far as I know, only apply to those two particular types of radiation, anyway. It gets worse the more one's exposed to it.

What you're referring to is probably something that'd have to be called "cellular durability," which would be the durability of the plasma membrane itself, to withstand necrosis or any type of cellular damage. That doesn't apply here.



iwandesu said:


> Edo Tensei can rewrote it's own dna and survive the explosion with easy.
> Orochimaru and kabuto have more than one dna each which can easily change or replace.
> kyuubi inner have a massive amount of chakra that affect your body almost exactly  how you are saying radiation do. (and we have many characters surviving against kyuubi "radiation".)



I can't tell you the effects of DNA mutation. It might not result in death. But with little exposure to gamma rays, it will affect them.

The effects, though, those depend on which coden sequences are effected by the particle(s).

That's not gamma rays, though. Gamma rays just rip DNA apart, literally, through negative attractions.


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## Iwandesu (May 2, 2014)

Risyth said:


> Heat energy = necrosis; cell death
> 
> Radiation...the only defense against X-Rays and Gamma Rays individually are antioxidants, which prevent or slow the formation of the free radicals of oxygen that occurs from the dissociation of molecules of water in the blood, because of the high energy particles that can have millions of a negative charge at a time.
> 
> ...


Then, i will ask you once more,  what a radiation resistance feat is too you ?
Also, why would the radiation insta kill the super humans when chernobyl, hiroshima and Nagasaki only started to kill normal humans after some days, and they can literally ignore the heat and energy from the bomb?


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## Totally not a cat (May 2, 2014)

Mind explaining why a fictional explosion several orders of magnitude higher than our current bombs wouldn't radiate similar if not higher amounts ionizing radiation?
And it does cause molecular damage (I don't think anyone is disputing that), because the electromagnetic waves have enough energy behind them to disturb the bonds between the electrons in the atoms, but that certainly hasn't stopped shonen heroes in the past, as they're much tougher and would need higher amount of radiation than that of current bombs in order to present the same symptoms we do when exposed to radiation.


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## Risyth (May 2, 2014)

Again, radiation doesn't have to result in death. I could tell you what the general effects are, but that really depends on what type of particle is causing the radiation, as I  said.

But let's go with gamma rays, since that's all anyone's talking about. X-rays work the same way. A very small concentration of either ray would kill cells. For a single particle, as it enters the body, or near it where there's water, it hits a molecule of water. Each gamma ray particle is millions of times negative in charge, much more than a typical electron. This negative charge is so great that it essentially rips apart the force between the hydrogen and oxygen molecules in water: dissociation without the thousands of degrees of heat needed for it.

The hydrogen atoms turn to gas and run the hell away because they don't want to fuck with the now extremely negatively charged free radical that is the oxygen molecule. The oxygen free radical has an electron or more, and goes around the body looking to equalize its charge, by getting or losing electrons. If it hits a cell, which it surely will, it ends up traveling through the cell's membrane. The cell's like, "yay, yummy oxygen, ATP " and the oxygen free radical goes to the nucleus and the reading frames of DNA that form the proteins. The intense negative charge rips these coden sequences apart, destroying the sequence of DNA in that cell...which itself doesn't die, but reproduces (usually cancerously, but anything's possible) with the fucked up code.  

I literally can't explain what the results would be, since that would depend on how the DNA sequence is effected in each specific case.


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## Totally not a cat (May 2, 2014)

Again, *why wouldn't an explosion several orders of magnitude higher than our current bombs radiate similar if not higher amounts ionizing radiation?*


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## Risyth (May 2, 2014)

> Mind explaining why a fictional explosion several orders of magnitude higher than our current bombs wouldn't radiate similar if not higher amounts ionizing radiation?
> And it does cause molecular damage (I don't think anyone is disputing that), because the electromagnetic waves have enough energy behind them to disturb the bonds between the electrons in the atoms, but that certainly hasn't stopped shonen heroes in the past, as they're much tougher and would need higher amount of radiation than that of current bombs in order to present the same symptoms we do when exposed to radiation.


This gamma radiation would only occur during nuclear fusion/fission, or whatever else fucks up the nucleus. Anyone who says otherwise is lying. I haven't seen any nuclear fusion/fission bombs in Naruto, and Kishi's never claimed their to be any. Huge explosion =/= gamma radiation emissions. Radioactive decay = gamma radiation emissions.

And using the action-logic of mangaka writing their shounen here should never apply to a scientific OBD thread. There's NO way to defend against the effects of free radicals in our body other than antioxidants, which are produced naturally, but in the scenario of an atomic bomb, would be infinitely useless.



> Again, *why wouldn't an explosion several orders of magnitude higher than our current bombs radiate similar if not higher amounts ionizing radiation?*



I was replying to iwandesu, not you.


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## Totally not a cat (May 2, 2014)

Risyth said:


> This gamma radiation would only occur during nuclear fusion/fission, or whatever else fucks up the nucleus. Anyone who says otherwise is lying. I haven't seen any nuclear fusion/fission bombs in Naruto, and Kishi's never claimed their to be any. Huge explosion =/= gamma radiation emissions. Radioactive decay = gamma radiation emissions.
> 
> And using the action-logic of mangaka writing their shounen here should never apply to a scientific OBD thread. There's NO way to defend against the effects of free radicals in our body other than antioxidants, which are produced naturally, but in the scenario of an atomic bomb, would be infinitely useless.



Nuclear fusion can be achieved if matter is sufficiently heated, due to collisions with extreme thermal kinetic energies of the particles, which is something near guaranteed on explosions of that scale.



Risyth said:


> I was replying to iwandesu, not you.


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## Risyth (May 2, 2014)

> Nuclear fusion can be achieved if matter is sufficiently heated, due to collisions with extreme thermal kinetic energies of the particles, which is something near guaranteed on explosions of that scale.



It's not necessarily guaranteed. It can depend on the nature of the attack, or the shockwave could just be that large. We don't necessarily needs tens of thousands of degrees of heat for an explosion of that magnitude at all, let alone nuclear fusion. We also don't need a nuclear explosion for a mushroom cloud to form. It's all gaseous.

We're talking about bijuudama, right? I don't know how bijuudama would interact with gamma ray particles, other than destroy them. That's why I think those attacks are more concussive in nature than nuclear. Even if they did contain sufficient amounts of radiation to theoretically hurt whoever was on the receiving end of them, their still being alive is illogical and can't be explained by conventional durability standards here.


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## Totally not a cat (May 2, 2014)

Risyth said:


> It's not necessarily guaranteed. It can depend on the nature of the attack, or the shockwave could just be that large. We don't necessarily needs tens of thousands of degrees of heat for an explosion of that magnitude at all, let alone nuclear fusion. We also don't need a nuclear explosion for a mushroom cloud to form. It's all gaseous.



Is that so? then explain to me how do you vaporize/melt/whatever kilometers worth of rock without at least "tens of thousands" of degrees in temperature, because I don't seem to get it.

To further illustrate the weight of these claims, your arguments can be used by someone saying Yamamoto > HST. Let that sink in for a moment.



Risyth said:


> We're talking about bijuudama, right?.


That'd be an example, but I'm not very knowledgeable of naruto so I'm not the best person to name all the different kinds of explosions in nardo. Kishi loves explosions 



Risyth said:


> Even if they did contain sufficient amounts of radiation to theoretically hurt whoever was on the receiving end of them, their still being alive is illogical and can't be explained by conventional durability standards here.


This means they're not affected by it more so than they are by the explosion itself because as I explained, they are suceptible to radiation, they just need a much higher amount of it to present the symptoms we do when exposed because they're bodies are not like ours.

There you go.


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## Risyth (May 2, 2014)

Totally not a cat said:


> Is that so? then explain to me how do you vaporize/melt/whatever kilometers worth of rock without at least "tens of thousands" of degrees in temperature, because I don't seem to get it.
> 
> To further illustrate the weight of these claims, your arguments can be used by someone saying Yamamoto > HST. Let that sink in for a moment.


Concussive forces would crush the rocks. I've never seen rocks specifically being melted in Naruto.

I've no idea who Yamamoto is or how that's relevant. I'm just using some logic.




> That'd be an example, but I'm not very knowledgeable of naruto so I'm not the best person to name all the different kinds of explosions in nardo. Kishi loves explosions


I can't think of any bigger explosion, since that's your incorrect criteria for radiation emissions, apparently.




> This means they're not affected by it more so than they are by the explosion itself because as I explained, they are suceptible to radiation, they just need a much higher amount of it to present the symptoms we do when exposed because they're bodies are not like ours.
> 
> There you go.


You missed the point. I said the bijuudama doesn't have to involve fusion at all, and you're only looking at the size of the explosion to determine whether fusion is involved. I even gave the reasons why this is so in the first paragraph of the very last post I made, which you obviously ignored.

Radiation doesn't work that way. Definitely not gamma radiation. All cells have DNA, and all people have roughly (bear with me) the same amount of cells in respects to how each can have its DNA destroyed or partially destroyed. The damage is done by the mutating cells--the latter; the ones that are still alive.  

The only things that could make one more resistant to gamma rays are:

1. Having millions of times more antioxidants produced by the body (i.e., death)
2. Having no DNA (i.e., death)
3. Having no cells or cells with no gene for mitosis ()
4. Being enveloped by a few feet of sufficient armor, which won't help at all with the "lolSun" heat (lead might be a popular choice...i.e., death)


--By the way, if bijuudama were strictly based on nuclear fusion, they'd blow up in their jinchuurikis' faces.


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## Iwandesu (May 2, 2014)

Risyth said:


> *It's not necessarily guaranteed*. It can depend on the nature of the attack, or the shockwave could just be that large. *We don't necessarily* needs tens of thousands of degrees of heat for an explosion of that magnitude at all, let alone nuclear fusion. We also don't need a nuclear explosion for a mushroom cloud to form. It's all gaseous.
> 
> We're talking about bijuudama, right? *I don't know how bijuudama would interact with gamma ray particles, other than destroy them. That's why I think those attacks are more concussive in nature than nuclear. *Even if they did contain sufficient amounts of radiation to theoretically hurt whoever was on the receiving end of them*, their still being alive is illogical and can't be explained by conventional durability standards here.*


Do you ever, argument from belief? 
The fact we can't quantify or predict the result of this unknown energy by ourselves is the solely reason that push we too generalize all kinds of energy.  We can't do anything further than assume that all energy works with a premade standard. Also, this is fiction, claiming logical and illogical is like claiming Sailor Moon is not ftl cuz this is illogical.


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## willyvereb (May 2, 2014)

There's nothing magical in radiation.
It's just a form of energy.
The way it's concentrated and absorbed in the body makes it more dangerous as it penetrates deep yet adds enough energy to start certain unwelcome chemical reactions in the body.
That's all.
If you don't want to believe in this, fine by me.
We're still taking it as such in the OBD.


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## Totally not a cat (May 2, 2014)

Risyth said:


> Concussive forces would crush the rocks. I've never seen rocks specifically being melted in Naruto


I don't read Naruto but I'm almost sure there's heat involved in the explosions, but like I said, I'm not the person to argue that. Call Waka or something idk.



Risyth said:


> I've no idea who Yamamoto is or how that's relevant. I'm just using some logic..


Shitty heat based character people love to wank. Not relevant, moving on.



Risyth said:


> I can't think of any bigger explosion, since that's your incorrect criteria for radiation emissions, apparently.



You don't have to go after the biggest explosions, almost every little shit has a higher output than our bombs so there's plenty of material to work with for the purposes of this thread. Deidara and fire jutsu would be other notable examples.



Risyth said:


> You missed the point. I said the bijuudama doesn't have to involve fusion at all, and you're only looking at the size of the explosion to determine whether fusion is involved. I even gave the reasons why this is so in the first paragraph of the very last post I made, which you obviously ignored.


And your reasoning behind that was that it _seemed_ to you that it was a concussive attack when that's against the popular belief.



Risyth said:


> Radiation doesn't work that way. Definitely not gamma radiation. All cells have DNA, and all people have roughly (bear with me) the same amount of cells in respects to how each can have its DNA destroyed or partially destroyed. The damage is done by the mutating cells--the latter; the ones that are still alive.
> 
> The only things that could make one more resistant to gamma rays are:
> 
> ...


If this is you arguing that nuclear bombs are > characters that haven't shown such an especific mechanic as extreme amounts of antioxidants and aren't aware that most fiction writers don't care about this, then I'm done with you.



Risyth said:


> --By the way, if bijuudama were strictly based on nuclear fusion, they'd blow up in their jinchuurikis' faces.



Pretty sure that's happened before and the dudes just shrugged it off.


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## Risyth (May 2, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> Do you ever, argument from belief?
> The fact we can't quantify or predict the result of this unknown energy by ourselves is the solely reason that push we too generalize all kinds of energy.  We can't do anything further than assume that all energy works with a premade standard. Also, this is fiction, claiming logical and illogical is like claiming Sailor Moon is not ftl cuz this is illogical.



Because if it's not stated to be nuclear, stating that it is is just Nardo Brigade Bias.

Don't try to make me quit by complementing Sailor Moon.


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## Totally not a cat (May 2, 2014)

At this point, your whole argument is clinging on Nardoverse's explosions not containing heat, which is pretty unplausible. So that's that.


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## Risyth (May 2, 2014)

Totally not a cat said:


> I don't read Naruto but I'm almost sure there's heat involved in the explosions, but like I said, I'm not the person to argue that. Call Waka or something idk.


There's always going to be heat as a byproduct of the explosion. I never said there wasn't going to be heat. But concussive forces would be mostly the chakra+shockwave.




> You don't have to go after the biggest explosions, almost every little shit has a higher output than our bombs so there's plenty of material to work with for the purposes of this thread. Deidara and fire jutsu would be other notable examples.


You all were talking about how big the explosions were, so I just went along with that. But if you don't want to go that route anymore, on the other hand, none of those alternatives would be hot enough to cause nuclear fusion, and they don't in the manga, nor do they imply it's been done. 



> And your reasoning behind that was that it _seemed_ to you that it was a concussive attack when that's against the popular belief.


The popular belief also laughably considers all forms of energy to have the same nature and effect on the body just because, and the popular belief also doesn't know what causes nuclear fusion, radioactive decay in general, dissociation, or radioactive mutation.

The popular belief has no evidence to support bijuudama involving nuclear fusion. I have logical reasoning to disprove that it doesn't. (Along with the fact that no one's suffered from exposure to gamma rays, but that's too obvious, isn't it?)



> If this is you arguing that nuclear bombs are > characters that haven't shown such an especific mechanic as extreme amounts of antioxidants and aren't aware that most fiction writers don't care about this, then I'm done with you.


I wasn't aware that Kishimoto was involved in the OBD. The OBD, where physics and biology are generally loved until they conflict with what their users want for their favorite verses.



> Pretty sure that's happened before and the dudes just shrugged it off.


No, it never happened. Don't bother looking for it.



willyvereb said:


> There's nothing magical in radiation.
> It's just a form of energy.
> The way it's concentrated and absorbed in the body makes it more dangerous as it penetrates deep yet adds enough energy to start certain unwelcome chemical reactions in the body.
> That's all.
> ...



I'd expect nothing less as a response. 

Doesn't make you right--then again, you should probably know that. 

The "chemical reactions" in which free radicals oxidize molecules fatty acids, forming more free radicals, etc? Never said I didn't believe it. But "durability" as you consider it is completely irrelevant to this process and its effects.

It'd probably take too much work to fix the screwed up system you all have in place, though. So have at it.


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## Regicide (May 2, 2014)




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## willyvereb (May 2, 2014)

Nah, you're a little mistaken here.
More like that what you're saying makes no scientific sense.
Your argument is basically that heat causes necrosis instead of DNA degradation.
Not realizing that it's just the combination of ionizing radiation being comparatively weak yet more penetrating.
And chemical reactions?
Sure...
Vaporization can be often a "chemical reaction" as well, generally referred as atomization.
Radiation only transmits the energy required for the chemical reaction and that's all.

But I realize you're already fargone with your argument so I don't want to convince you.


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## Totally not a cat (May 2, 2014)

Risyth said:


> You all were talking about how big the explosions were, so I just went along with that. But if you don't want to go that route anymore, on the other hand, none of those alternatives would be hot enough to cause nuclear fusion, and they don't in the manga, nor do they imply it's been done.


Yeah well, bijuudamas aren't discarded, neither are these other options. I'm just pointing out how there's a wide variety of energetic enough sources.



Risyth said:


> The popular belief also laughably considers all forms of energy to have the same nature and effect on the body just because, and the popular belief also doesn't know what causes nuclear fusion, radioactive decay in general, dissociation, or radioactive mutation.




You're arguing against the whole thing now (not comprehending what you're being told). Okay, nice to know. Good luck on that.



Risyth said:


> The popular belief has no evidence to support bijuudama involving nuclear fusion. I have logical reasoning to disprove that it doesn't. (Along with the fact that no one's suffered from exposure to gamma rays, but that's too obvious, isn't it?).



These explosions being => as hot as real life bombs is enough to dismantle your whole argument (which is a given around here). I'm not arguing that with you, make a meta thread if you want to argue that with the guys that ARE knowledgeable about nardo but let me warn you, that's not gonna be daisies in the meadow.




Risyth said:


> I wasn't aware that Kishimoto was involved in the OBD. The OBD, where physics and biology are generally loved until they conflict with what their users want for their favorite verses.



Don't see how this is relevant but I appreciate the sarcasm 



Risyth said:


> No, it never happened. Don't bother looking for it.



Alright then.


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## Risyth (May 2, 2014)

willyvereb said:


> Nah, you're a little mistaken here.
> More like that what you're saying makes no scientific sense.
> Your argument is basically that heat causes necrosis instead of DNA degradation.
> Not realizing that it's just the combination of ionizing radiation being comparatively weak yet more penetrating.
> ...



Feel free to quote me saying heat causes necrosis in radiation. Heat doesn't have anything to do with the process, bro. You're confused as to what I've been saying for the past hour+, which hasn't changed at all.

Heat isn't even what causes dissociation in this process.

Try to understand my argument better, or else you're just debating a strawman. I've already explained the process through which free radicals (ionized oxygen molecules, the result of gamma radiation) cause DNA destruction. Evidently, you didn't see it or you don't understand the process as well as you think.

Vaporization, atomization...neither of those have anything to do with the process of the destruction of DNA in this case, either. Two irrelevant points. The only chemical reactions of note  in this entire process are the conversions of fatty acids to free radicals, and the negative bond between the free radicals and DNA. 

...radiation is the process radiating of an electromagnetic wave particle...a gamma ray particle in this instance. To radiate something is to launch it somewhere. So it's just another way to say the particle is traveling through the body.

My apologies, but there's no way you can convince me when you don't know what I'm talking about.


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## kaminogan (May 2, 2014)

(sorry if this was already explained)

gamma radiation does not destroy DNA, it destroys that which keeps the DNA from falling apart which was an enzyme which name i cant remember, 

this happens as we age, actually, we age because of it, (as in, the effects of aging are actually that enzyme breaking down) 

as for weather it would affect naruto characters, i dont see why not,

gamma radiation is basically light, unlike visible light which reflects off of opaque objects gamma waves (light travels in waves) go through objects, 

somebody mentioned that since a character can survive "A" heat energy they can also survive "A" gamma radiation, 

im not saying its false, but it doesn't apply to everything, a glass pane can melt at B heat energy yet have nothing happen to it if A gamma radiation went through it, (assuming A is > B)

the same holds true the reverse, a material (like ice) can melt at low temperatures, yet remain un-damaged after experiencing gamma radiation (or any for that matter),


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## Risyth (May 2, 2014)

Totally not a cat said:


> Yeah well, bijuudamas aren't discarded, neither are these other options. I'm just pointing out how there's a wide variety of energetic enough sources.


"There's a wide variety of energetic enough sources" of which none have succeeded at being brought up. This is sounding like pure bias and obstinacy, at the moment.



> You're arguing against the whole thing now (not comprehending what you're being told). Okay, nice to know. Good luck on that.


Okay, since I don't understand what I've been told, and since you're evidently waiting for a reply now, let's see you describe to me, in ten--no, fifteen minutes, the process through which gamma rays affect DNA.

You know, so we can see who's really comprehending what. Just to entertain this idea; it's pretty clear, though, that you have no more points left.




> These explosions being => as hot as real life bombs is enough to dismantle your whole argument (which is a given around here). I'm not arguing that with you, make a meta thread if you want to argue that with the guys that ARE knowledgeable about nardo but let me warn you, that's not gonna be daisies in the meadow.


Bomb =/= nuclear fusion. There's nothing about the bijuudama to suggest that their destructive feats stem from anything more than "chakra," and if so, there'd be no purpose for chakra anyway, defeating the point of the manga. It's concussive; sorry to shatter your dreams.

Along with the fact that, again, nuclear fusion occuring from the bijuudama, which itself is chakra, would mean the ball would explode in the jinchuuriki's face, as soon as the jinchuuriki starts to form it. Obviously, this as never happened.

I don't care to deal with the Nardo squad. That's a terrible point to make, I should note, if I can even consider it one. "I can't do it, but my more knowledgeable buddies can."




> Don't see how this is relevant but I appreciate the sarcasm


It was you who desperately tried to debunk my argument by saying Kishimoto didn't care, remember? Or do you want a quote? 

_If this is you arguing that nuclear bombs are > characters that haven't shown such an especific mechanic as extreme amounts of antioxidants and aren't aware that most fiction writers don't care about this, then I'm done with you._
If Kishimoto were active in the OBD, for his own manga, I'm he would start to care a little about how physics worked. 

Unless, of course, they aren't employing nuclear fusion in their attacks.


...hmm..now, _there's_ a thought.




kaminogan said:


> (sorry if this was already explained)
> 
> gamma radiation does not destroy DNA, it destroys that which keeps the DNA from falling apart which was an enzyme which name i cant remember,
> 
> ...



DNA's held together by hydrogen bonds...weak ones.

The codens of DNA are pulled apart by the negative attracting oxygen free radical. DNA is also negatively charged, but it's nothing compared to the free radical.


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## Stan Lee (May 2, 2014)

kaminogan said:


> (sorry if this was already explained)
> 
> gamma radiation does not destroy DNA, it destroys that which keeps the DNA from falling apart which was an enzyme which name i cant remember,
> 
> ...



Oh yeah, I heard that radiation causes cells to decay. But things like Edos are stated not to do that.


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## ZenithXAbyss (May 2, 2014)

Meh, unless there's radioactivity shown i'll still believe otherwise.
Since it's an indicator, it should be present if there is indeed ionizing radiation taking effect.



> DNA's held together by hydrogen bonds...weak ones.


H-Bonds are one of the strongest dipole-dipole interactions, from what i can remember.


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## Risyth (May 2, 2014)

Nah, hydrogen bonds are pretty weak. They lose electrons like Zaru loses virginity.


...wait...


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## Totally not a cat (May 2, 2014)

Risyth said:


> "There's a wide variety of energetic enough sources" of which none have succeeded at being brought up. This is sounding like pure bias and obstinacy, at the moment.


Uhm, everything from generic ninjutsu being in the megatons to exatons worth of bijuudamas are there, some even based purely in electricity or heat, which are more than enough. I didn't mention or pointed at a specific technique and you just assumed it was a bijuudama so I went from there. 



Risyth said:


> Okay, since I don't understand what I've been told, and since you're evidently waiting for a reply now, let's see you describe to me, in ten--no, fifteen minutes, the process through which gamma rays affect DNA.



What I got from your posts is that radiation disturbs the structure of cells, and by doing this it causes damage to the DNA inside it which causes malfunctions in the organism. Because you know, DNA is what makes the cell function, along with RNA and structures such as the golgi apparatus, the endoplasmic reticulum and what not< Very brief



Risyth said:


> You know, so we can see who's really comprehending what. Just to entertain this idea; it's pretty clear, though, that you have no more points left.


I only ever made one point which is still checking your whole argument. The explosion being hot enough would cause a nuclear reaction in the particles around it and thus radiation, that the characters are resistant to it is evidence that our weak (in comparison) bombs are not going to do much of a thing.



Risyth said:


> Bomb =/= nuclear fusion. There's nothing about the bijuudama to suggest that their destructive feats stem from anything more than "chakra," and if so, there'd be no purpose for chakra anyway, defeating the point of the manga. It's concussive; sorry to shatter your dreams.



Even if it was a concussive attack like you're so fiercely insistent, hypervelocity impacts have most of their kinetic energy converted into heat as their momentum stop. Thus, even if it was a mere shockwave, it would still cause temperatures hot enough for these reactions to happen.



Risyth said:


> Along with the fact that, again, nuclear fusion occuring from the bijuudama, which itself is chakra, would mean the ball would explode in the jinchuuriki's face, as soon as the jinchuuriki starts to form it. Obviously, this as never happened.



Because Kishimoto would know this, and because fiction is supposed to follow the laws of physics.



Risyth said:


> I don't care to deal with the Nardo squad. That's a terrible point to make, I should note, if I can even consider it one. "I can't do it, but my more knowledgeable buddies can."


All I'm saying is, as long as it's generic, I can continue debating with you but as you nag harder and harder going into unnecessary details, then I can no longer keep up because I don't read Naruto, I can't recall feats and the like, but that doesn't mean that they don't exist (because these concepts are commonly used in their calcs and in other threads). So if you want someone to explain to you the specific mechanics of bijuuwhatever then I'm sorry, I'm not your man.



Risyth said:


> It was you who desperately tried to debunk my argument by saying Kishimoto didn't care, remember? Or do you want a quote?



I wasn't talking about Kishimoto but writers of fiction in general. I really tried to get into general terms to avoid this precisely. It is known that writers don't tend to have a clue about the physical limitations of what they draw, that's why it's fiction, but that hasn't stopped these kind of forums before and arguing otherwise is arguing the foundation of Vs forums in general.



Risyth said:


> _If this is you arguing that nuclear bombs are > characters that haven't shown such an especific mechanic as extreme amounts of antioxidants and aren't aware that most fiction writers don't care about this, then I'm done with you._
> If Kishimoto were active in the OBD, for his own manga, I'm he would start to care a little about how physics worked.


Again, not talking specifically about kishi nor nardo characters, but fiction character in general. Do (for example, not necessarily this, but there are many fictions in this position) dragonball characters have extreme amount of antioxidants? because otherwise and going by your train of thought our bombs would be efficient against them. < Not to profundize much on this point because otherwise we'd get off topic.


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## kaminogan (May 2, 2014)

oh yea, as for the topic,

im pretty sure the bijuu could survive, they can just materialize new meat for themselves,

obito survives via kamui,

danzo survives via izanagi,

edo are not really alive per-say, so they should be immune,

and hidan


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## Risyth (May 2, 2014)

> Even if it was a concussive attack like you're so fiercely insistent, hypervelocity impacts have most of their kinetic energy converted into heat as their momentum stop. Thus, even if it was a mere shockwave, it would still cause temperatures hot enough for these reactions to happen.


So, this is your point then? Just let me know, so I make sure I'm addressing the most relevant one. I don't want to waste more time.


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## Totally not a cat (May 2, 2014)

Risyth said:


> So, this is your point then? Just let me know, so I make sure I'm addressing the most relevant one. I don't want to waste more time.


Part of it. Thing is, these explosions have heat, whether it's because of it's elemental affinity or by it's sheer kinetic energy (which you yoursef are arguing) being converted into heat is irrelevant as both lead to nuclear fusion, radiation and surviving said radiation.


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## ZenithXAbyss (May 2, 2014)

> Part of it. Thing is, these explosions have heat, whether it's because of it's elemental affinity or by it's sheer kinetic energy (which you yoursef are arguing) being converted into heat is irrelevant as both lead to nuclear fusion, radiation and surviving said radiation.


This is pretty much arguing into trope tbh.
It's like saying every thing that's moving past sonic speed should produce shockwaves.
This is fiction, physics gets denied to some extent.
That is an undeniable fact.


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## kaminogan (May 2, 2014)

nuclear fusion does not produce radiation... just heat and water,

EX: fusion powered cars,


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## Risyth (May 2, 2014)

Totally not a cat said:


> Part of it. Thing is, these explosions have heat, whether it's because of it's elemental affinity or by it's sheer kinetic energy (which you yoursef are arguing) being converted into heat is irrelevant as both lead to nuclear fusion, radiation and surviving said radiation.


You know, you'll never be able to act as if I've never said something, so long as my exact words still exist within the topic.

_There's always going to be heat as a byproduct of the explosion. I never said there wasn't going to be heat. But concussive forces would be mostly the chakra+shockwave._

-Prove that any elemental affinity other than fire and fire-related nature causes heat production on a large scale.

-The amount of natural heat in an environment needed for nuclear fusion is in the millions of degrees Farenheit....


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## kaminogan (May 2, 2014)

this is directed towards people who believe that since a char can survive a nuclear blast, that the radiation wont affect them,

gentle fist, it attacks the organs of the body right ? i recall that in part 1 gai said that no matter how much you train, you can never improve your internal organs,

ergo all human naruto character organs should not be able to survive nuclear blasts,


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## Totally not a cat (May 2, 2014)

Risyth said:


> You know, you'll never be able to act as if I've never said something, so long as my exact words still exist within the topic.
> 
> _There's always going to be heat as a byproduct of the explosion. I never said there wasn't going to be heat. But concussive forces would be mostly the chakra+shockwave._.


That's why it shocks me how you insist on your point regardless of knowing this.



Risyth said:


> -Prove that any elemental affinity other than fire and fire-related nature causes heat production on a large scale.



Fire and electricty come as the most blatant examples and they have megatons of firepower if done by anyone that's not shit. Other affinities that achieve to cause such widespread destruction also apply due to the kinetic to thermal energy convertion.



Risyth said:


> -The amount of natural heat in an environment needed for nuclear fusion is in the millions of degrees Farenheit....


That also happens to be the kind of temperatures reached by our bombs. I don't think I need to spell it out to you that a much more energetic explosion (we're talking about explosions being hundreds to billions of times more energetic than our current bombs) likewise reaches much higher temperatures.


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## Risyth (May 2, 2014)

Totally not a cat said:


> That's why it shocks me how you insist on your point regardless of knowing this.


It's as if you completely ignored the last sentence: "But concussive forces would be mostly the chakra+shockwave."

...oh, wait: you did.




> Fire and electricty come as the most blatant examples and they have megatons of firepower if done by anyone that's not shit. Other affinities that achieve to cause such widespread destruction also apply due to the kinetic to thermal energy convertion.


Even though you're pulling units out of thin air, you did exactly what I knew you would: disregard the fact that I said "prove" and "other than fire and fire-related nature".

So I'm still waiting for you to address my post.




> *That also happens to be the kind of temperatures reached by our bombs.* I don't think I need to spell it out to you that a much more energetic explosion (we're talking about explosions being hundreds to billions of times more energetic than our current bombs) likewise reaches much higher temperatures.



"That also happens to be the kind of temperatures reached by our bombs."

...really now.


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## Totally not a cat (May 3, 2014)

Risyth said:


> It's as if you completely ignored the last sentence: "But concussive forces would be mostly the chakra+shockwave."
> 
> ...oh, wait: you did.


Don't see how this is relevant as only a very small fraction of the energy of the explosion is needed to outmatch the temperature of our bombs.



Risyth said:


> Even though you're pulling units out of thin air, you did exactly what I knew you would: disregard the fact that I said "prove" and "other than fire and fire-related nature".
> 
> So I'm still waiting for you to address my post



I thought it was common knowledge midtiers in nardo were at least megaton or something. I also don't see the need to prove that it can be done by affinities "other than fire and such" because if those meet the conditions then the characters get the resistance from there if not from everything else (unplausible).



Risyth said:


> "That also happens to be the kind of temperatures reached by our bombs."
> 
> ...really now.



Thought you'd know this as well.


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## Iwandesu (May 3, 2014)

Risyth said:


> Bomb =/= nuclear fusion. There's nothing about the bijuudama to suggest that their destructive feats stem from anything more than "chakra," and if so, there'd be no purpose for chakra anyway, defeating the point of the manga. It's concussive; sorry to shatter your dreams.



Rysith, you're a cool guy, but you can't be so dense, Only chakra? Is reiatsu only reiatsu? is ki only ki ? Is cosmo just cosmo? is energy just energy? does none of them have anything to do with each other?


> Along with the fact that, again, nuclear fusion occuring from the bijuudama, which itself is chakra, would mean the ball would explode in the jinchuuriki's face, as soon as the jinchuuriki starts to form it. Obviously, this as never happened.


you know, is kind of ironic

Bijjudama is yin Yang chakra compressed until it reaches its limits.


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## Iwandesu (May 3, 2014)

Risyth said:


> You know, you'll never be able to act as if I've never said something, so long as my exact words still exist within the topic.
> 
> _There's always going to be heat as a byproduct of the explosion. I never said there wasn't going to be heat. But concussive forces would be mostly the chakra+shockwave._
> 
> ...


> I don't need to proof as long i can prove they resist to megaton fire jutsus 
>This much of heat exists in any megaton explosion.(which includes deidara's clay ones )


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## Risyth (May 3, 2014)

I have no idea what you're talking about, iwandesu.


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## Risyth (May 3, 2014)

Totally not a cat said:


> Don't see how this is relevant as only a very small fraction of the energy of the explosion is needed to outmatch the temperature of our bombs.


Based on what, again? All I'm getting out of this is that you have no idea what separates a nuclear explosion from a normal explosion, and you don't know what a primarily concussive explosion is. If the shockwave is large enough, then without fusion occurring, the bijuudama's effects are perfectly capable of being reached. That shockwave needs little heat energy, yet it can still be incredibly powerful, and more so when combined with chakra.

And since you can't get this in two tries, let me go for a third: jutsu based on nuclear fusion that aren't contained would explode as soon as they meet the air, i.e, in the users' faces.




> I thought it was common knowledge midtiers in nardo were at least megaton or something. I also don't see the need to prove that it can be done by affinities "other than fire and such" because if those meet the conditions then the characters get the resistance from there if not from everything else (unplausible).


You just lumped generic fire/lighting jutsu into megatons without providing cases for any of it. Typical wank and blind debating based on hearsay, without even fully comprehending the hearsay.

The thing is, you still haven't proved any of the attacks in Naruto involve nuclear fusion, so stop acting as if you have. You haven't proved anything. You told me elemental affinities in general produce heat, and now that I'm telling you to prove it, you simply can't. I said absolutely nothing about tanking the heat, which still doesn't have anything to do with defense against radiation. Nothing wrong with being wrong if you'd stop making irrelevant excuses to try and throw the topic off.




> Thought you'd know this as well.


Firstly, your link sucks and it's old. Second, those temperatures only apply to the core of the explosion. Those, you're missing my point, as usual.

Hydrogen bombs reach such temperature because of nuclear fusion/temperature, not because of the explosion. You're reaching for the conclusion without any of the logic to lead up to it. I've already told you at least three times now that none of the explosions in Naruto have proven to have anything to do with radioactive decay.

Stop acting like a smartass, especially when you can't give a single specific instance of an explosion in this manga to satisfy the week's worth of wank you're spouting.


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## Totally not a cat (May 3, 2014)

Risyth said:


> Based on what, again? All I'm getting out of this is that you have no idea what separates a nuclear explosion from a normal explosion, and you don't know what a primarily concussive explosion is. If the shockwave is large enough, then without fusion occurring, the bijuudama's effects are perfectly capable of being reached. That shockwave needs little heat energy, yet it can still be incredibly powerful, and more so when combined with chakra.
> 
> And since you can't get this in two tries, let me go for a third: jutsu based on nuclear fusion that aren't contained would explode as soon as they meet the air, i.e, in the users' faces.
> 
> ...



Is that wank? 
You see, this is what I warned you about. I can't help you much outside of hearsay. I'll just tell you it's a bold claim you're making since it goes against the general consensus on many issues, I simply can't do this any further.
 Also, chill it down a bit, I didn't intend that to sound that condescending, I honestly thought you'd relate because of how much people talk about naruto around here and also about the temperatures of the explosions, but I don't keep track of this stuff so I can't link you to the blogs.

Try debating with someone with a better grasp of the shit he/she's spouting. I'm still not buying the whole shockwave thing but I can't convince you otherwise it seems.


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## Risyth (May 3, 2014)

I really don't care about the consensus if it's nonfactual. I've never worried about fitting in, but that's why there's no point in making a new thread: since everyone would want to go with the consensus by nature, merely because it's the consensus.

I can explain the science of my reasoning regarding the shockwave explanation and its role in chakra-based explosion better, I suppose, if you can show me a gif or some kind of link to a particular explosion you have in mind.


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## Totally not a cat (May 3, 2014)

Risyth said:


> I really don't care about the consensus if it's nonfactual. I've never worried about fitting in, but that's why there's no point in making a new thread: since everyone would want to go with the consensus by nature, merely because it's the consensus.



It's not about "fitting in", it's about getting closer to what's "correct", and if you make good arguments for it you'd change the consensus. It has happened before and happens all the time. That's kind of the point of having a scientific system.



Risyth said:


> I can explain the science of my reasoning regarding the shockwave explanation and its role in chakra-based explosion better, I suppose, if you can show me a gif or some kind of link to a particular explosion you have in mind.



That'd definitely help, but not me. I don't watch or read Naruto, I don't know it's plot, I don't know most of their feats, I can't help you. If you want to get somewhere (otherwise you just wasted your time on this thread) then I'm not the person to talk to.


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## Risyth (May 3, 2014)

Not based on what willyvereb said. The current OBD is a hive mind that runs on frequently arbitrary calcs and ignores biological functions almost completely.

Still love posting in it, though. And I'm too lazy to try and change anything. I know that it has rules to be respected; I just acknowledge they fail for the most part. And, nah, I accomplished what I wanted to in this thread.


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## Totally not a cat (May 3, 2014)

Outdoing a clueless teenager in a debate on a subject not familiar with him? 

People is more reasonable than what you might think, once you get through the thick layer of emoticons and gifs. Assuming you don't lose it and have compelling arguments. If you're confident in your argument and you turn out to be right then it's done. People go through this whenever a calc is discussed.


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## Risyth (May 3, 2014)

No, just posting how how gamma rays actually work for a change. No one else in the thread did that, so debating against their points was impossible.

I would, since I enjoy debating...but I'm still too lazy to take it to the metadome. Plus, I've got finals on Monday to study for. Actually, I should get started now.


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## Totally not a cat (May 3, 2014)

That sounds better 
Finals, already? I still got a month of school and then some partial tests, but I'm not doing finals.


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