# SAO Vs. Log Horizon



## That One Bard (Dec 20, 2013)

Kirito, Asuna and Lyfa (SAO) Vs. Shiroe, Akatsuki, and Naotsugu (Log Horizon)

Scenario 1: With preparation.
Scenario 2: Without preparation.

In character.


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## Imagine (Dec 20, 2013)

Shiroe schools these fools.


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## November (Dec 20, 2013)

Log horizon>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SAO


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## Regicide (Dec 20, 2013)

Aren't the SAO fuckers supersonic or some shit?

Haven't quite finished reading the LH LNs yet, but I don't recall the Log Horizon side having anything on that level.


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## MAPSK (Dec 20, 2013)

someone's getting Thorn Bind Hostage'd.


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## ~Greed~ (Dec 20, 2013)

Shiroe is an awesome charcter. Better than any of the SAO cast.....but Kirito probably solo's this.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 20, 2013)

Shiroe is a poor man's Ovan.


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## Expelsword (Dec 20, 2013)

Is Lyfa even worth anything compared to Kirito and Asuna?


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## Xiammes (Dec 20, 2013)

Regicide said:


> Aren't the SAO fuckers supersonic or some shit?
> 
> Haven't quite finished reading the LH LNs yet, but I don't recall the Log Horizon side having anything on that level.



Not even close, the only instance of bullet timing is where its a feature among the skills in a MMO about bullet timing. There is only one instance where he did it without the feature and its not very impressive, not counting the distance he kept his sword close to him to block some of the bullets fired at him, if you can even count that.


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## ~Greed~ (Dec 20, 2013)

.............It took Shiroe's group 3 days to travel a couple hundred KM.


Kirito and Asuna are far faster. Lyfa isn't nearly as fast Kirito or Asuna, but she should still be far faster than the LH cast.


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## Xiammes (Dec 20, 2013)

Mega Ultra Chicken said:


> .............It took Shiroe's group 3 days to travel a couple hundred KM.
> 
> 
> Kirito and Asuna are far faster. Lyfa isn't nearly as fast Kirito or Asuna, but she should still be far faster than the LH cast.



The fastest speed in SAO was Asuna's running, 5km in 5 minutes, which is  16m/s, thats slightly superhuman but not blitzing anyone.


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## Weather (Dec 21, 2013)

> The fastest speed in SAO was Asuna's running, 5km in 5 minutes, which is 16m/s, thats slightly superhuman but not blitzing anyone.



Nope.jpg



> The boy drew his shabby sword with his right hand, and let it hang loosely toward the ground. After saying something fairly daring, Lyfa expected him to immediately start attacking, but he didn't move. Then, he put his left foot forward, adjusted his center of gravity and suddenly...* Boom!! The boy disappeared at the same time as some sort of sound impacted her. A sonic boom!?*! Lyfa had fought against many enemies, but had never seen such an attack, her eyes couldn't even follow the boy's movement. As she hurriedly turned her head to the right, the boy stopped moving with his body low to the ground far away from where he had started. He completed his technique by swinging his sword toward his sheathe.





> Kirito let go of her hand, moved Yui off his shoulder into his breast pocket, and, beating his wings violently, suddenly accelerated. *BANG! Lyfa closed her eyes from the force of the sonic boom*, and, when she re-opened them, Kirito was diving toward the platform.



Yeah.


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## Xiammes (Dec 21, 2013)

Weather said:


> Nope.jpg
> 
> Yeah.





Technically, its not possible for someone human sized to create a audible sonic boom to anyone more then a few inches away.


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## Weather (Dec 21, 2013)

> Technically, its not possible for someone human sized to create a audible sonic boom to anyone more then a few inches away.



He was in ALO, he has wings in there.


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## Xiammes (Dec 21, 2013)

Weather said:


> He was in ALO, he has wings in there.



They would have to be pretty big wings to create a sonic boom.

Though we like to cherry pick which rules of physics we follow for feats.


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## MAPSK (Dec 21, 2013)

Even so, with prep this should hardly be an issue. Shiroe is an infinitely superior leader and tactician compared to Kirito, and he knows how to play to his team's strengths. Here's a possible scenario: Naotsugu starts the match by immediately drawing aggro with Anchor Howl, Shiroe keeps Kirito in place with Astral Bind and lays down some of dat Thorn Bind Hostage, and then Akatsuki guts Kirito like a fish. Or perhaps a cornish game hen.

Really, after you take him out the rest of it is child's play. Rinse and repeat. Also, this is an in-character fight as well, meaning they've got the Villain in Glasses to deal with.


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## Regicide (Dec 21, 2013)

They might stand a chance with speed equal. 

Really though, I'm not seeing how the LH team can take this against supersonic shit, unless Kirito has no similar feats in SAO and we're not allowing shit from the other games.


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## Dig (Dec 22, 2013)

ALO characters are supersonic. They blitz anything from LH.

Against SAO versions (superhumans, but not even transonic), they have chances, especially in scenario 1 (f*cking Shiroe will show those fools how to play a online-game).


That said, in a off topic moment, Log Horizon is dozens of times better written than SAO


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## Regicide (Dec 22, 2013)

Dig said:


> Against SAO versions (superhumans, but not even transonic), they have chances, especially in scenario 1


Eh, that works then.


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## Axl Low (Dec 23, 2013)

With prep? Either way IMO
without: im gunna say SAO universe is probably gunna blitz


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## shade0180 (Dec 23, 2013)

And I thought this was Shin Angyo Onshi.


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## MAPSK (Dec 23, 2013)

waitwaitwait. Shouldn't we spend any time at all discussing whether or not any of these supersonic feats were legitimate since they were technically "lolgamemechanics"?


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## Axl Low (Dec 23, 2013)

uh

it was a light novel and an anime
saying game mechanics inside an anime or novel is muddling the mixture dontcha think? O:

they did happen in a place where we could measure them no? O: Or does being in a game while  its a book or anime not count?


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## MAPSK (Dec 23, 2013)

Axl Low said:


> uh
> 
> it was a light novel and an anime
> game mechanics inside an anime or novel is just muddling the mixture



but in the context of the light novel, they are playing a game. If your character in a game can block a lightning bolt, does that mean you can do the same thing in real life? If Kirito's speed feats were all a result of game mechanics, then that kinda invalidates SAO's speed advantage.


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## Linkofone (Dec 23, 2013)

> waitwaitwait. Shouldn't we spend any time at all discussing whether or not any of these supersonic feats were legitimate since they were technically "lolgamemechanics"?



Depends on where the fight takes place.


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## Axl Low (Dec 23, 2013)

MAPSK said:


> but in the context of the light novel, they are playing a game. If your character in a game can block a lightning bolt, does that mean you can do the same thing in real life? If Kirito's speed feats were all a result of game mechanics, then that kinda invalidates SAO's speed advantage.





Linkofone said:


> Depends on where the fight takes place.



true enough but why cant we use the in game character's version that can be measure then? outside of SAO he is a teenager but why would we use a peak human versus log horizon? O:


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## Linkofone (Dec 23, 2013)

Axl Low said:


> true enough but why cant we use the in game character's version that can be measure then? outside of SAO he is a teenager but why would we use a peak human versus log horizon? O:



I think it would probably be the fairest if the location would allow both sides to use their abilities in a fight. If speed is really the deciding factor, why not just have equalized speed? 

Well unless the OP stated some sort of limitation. 



> in a game can block a lightning bolt, does that mean you can do the same thing in real life? If Kirito's speed feats were all a result of game mechanics, then that kinda invalidates SAO's speed advantage.



Yes, just because in game you can do something that doesn't mean you can do it in real life. But the point of this battle is between the in-game version of both sides. Kirito isn't supersonic in his version of real life, but he apparently is in-game. Also ... something like *"this attack is 1 hit ko" should be limited to game mechanics*.


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## Huntring (Dec 23, 2013)

MAPSK said:


> but in the context of the light novel, they are playing a game. If your character in a game can block a lightning bolt, does that mean you can do the same thing in real life? If Kirito's speed feats were all a result of game mechanics, then that kinda invalidates SAO's speed advantage.



Are you really making such a inane argument?

Srsly.

All of SaO's feats are from the game.  They're all a result of game mechanics.  Of course you use the in game versions.  Otherwise you might as well make Log Horizon vs Skinny teenager, his sister and his girlfriend.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 23, 2013)

yeah, it really isn't any different from how we treat characters from, say, The Matrix films


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## MAPSK (Dec 23, 2013)

My point is though, the feats of both sides were performed in different games, using different game mechanics. So we can't exactly use mechanics from one game in a fight against a different game. They have to be equalized. Otherwise, the combatants aren't being limited by their own abilities, but rather the rules of their respective games, which doesn't make for a true test of skill or strength. Unless you want to say "LH's virtual avatars vs. SAO's virtual avatars", you have to equalize things, otherwise the presence of the players becomes a non factor.

It's like if you pit a normal human against someone from a parallel universe where the laws of physics work differently and their punches have the impact of marshmallows despite being physically identical to ordinary humans. You can't just say the laws of physics work differently for both of them in a fight, that's the whole point of equalization.


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## Xam (Dec 23, 2013)

Mapsky, pretty sure the game mechanics argument only applies to actual games. 

Since if he dodged a lightning bolt in game, it might be accepted depending the usual shit, since we aren't putting his pitful human self up against anyone. It's the avatars they have in game.

As for the equalization thing, what exactly do they differ in?


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## Regicide (Dec 23, 2013)

MAPSK, what the fuck are you going on about? It's not like we're comparing health bars or some equally inane shit. We're going by feats, which are still feats even if they took place in a game.

Granted, the Log Horizon fuckers aren't actually in a game, but a real world that operates on game mechanics, but you get what I mean.


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## MAPSK (Dec 23, 2013)

Xamgun D. Auchhior said:


> Mapsky, pretty sure the game mechanics argument only applies to actual games.
> 
> Since if he dodged a lightning bolt in game, it might be accepted depending the usual shit, since we aren't putting his pitful human self up against anyone. It's the avatars they have in game.
> 
> As for the equalization thing, what exactly do they differ in?



I would argue to the contrary. Like I said, if the only deciding factor in this fight is which game has better avatars, then it would be "Elder Tale game mechanics vs. Sword Art Online game mechanics", not "Shiroe, Naotsugu and Akatsuki vs. Kirito, Asuna and Lyfa". You're completely removing the players from this. Ultimately, this match about the players, not their avatars. Otherwise you could easily say "Well Akatsuki could replicate Kirito's speed if she was playing SAO or GG" or "Kirito wouldn't be able to move that fast if he was playing Elder Tale".


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## Linkofone (Dec 23, 2013)

Umm ... Map, I think you are over-thinking this or something. Without avatars ... the SAO cast would be regular people.


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## Xam (Dec 23, 2013)

MAPSK said:


> -snip-


I..
I..
What are you even trying to say here.


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## Huntring (Dec 23, 2013)

MAPSK said:


> I would argue to the contrary. Like I said, if the only deciding factor in this fight is which game has better avatars, then it would be "Elder Tale game mechanics vs. Sword Art Online game mechanics", not "Shiroe, Naotsugu and Akatsuki vs. Kirito, Asuna and Lyfa". You're completely removing the players from this. Ultimately, this match about the players, not their avatars. Otherwise you could easily say "Well Akatsuki could replicate Kirito's speed if she was playing SAO" or "Kirito wouldn't be able to move that fast if he was playing Elder Tale".



Dat grasping at straws.


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## Regicide (Dec 23, 2013)

MAPSK, it doesn't matter.

Whether or not their stats would be different if they were playing different games is irrelevant, because that's not the case. We're using these incarnations of the characters specifically.

And if these incarnations can move at a given speed or have a given destructive capacity, that's that.

The only issue is that the OP never specified what version of the SAO team we're talking about here, since the various MMOs all seem to have different feats.


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## MAPSK (Dec 23, 2013)

Linkofone said:


> Umm ... Map, I think you are over-thinking this or something. Without avatars ... the SAO cast would be regular people.



Again, that is my whole point. This match about the players of Elder Tale versus the players of Sword Art Online. It's not about which game has better avatars or game mechanics. Ergo, we should assume the capabilities of both parties are equalized. Otherwise it'd be a boring roflstomp for SAO because the game happened to be programmed with better mechanics. The victory wouldn't have anything to do with Kirito or his friends, it'd be because of the game.


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## Huntring (Dec 23, 2013)

MAPSK said:


> Again, that is my whole point. This match about the players of Elder Tale versus the players of Sword Art Online. It's not about which game has better avatars or game mechanics. Ergo, we should assume the capabilities of both parties are equalized. Otherwise it'd be a boring roflstomp for SAO because the game happened to be programmed with better mechanics. The victory wouldn't have anything to do with Kirito or his friends, it'd be because of the game.



This is like arguing that it's unfair for Naruto to be stronger then Bleach because their verse mechanics let them be stronger then Bleach.

Are you really that desperate for Log Horizon to win?


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## Regicide (Dec 23, 2013)

MAPSK said:


> Otherwise it'd be a boring roflstomp for SAO because the game happened to be programmed with better mechanics.


Feats are feats, it doesn't matter if they're a result of how something is programmed or game mechanics or whatever the fuck. 

I mean, this shit's pretty debatable to begin with for the LH characters, given that there's no actual "programming" involved in their case anyways.


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## That One Bard (Dec 23, 2013)

After reading over the thread, going to say that speed is equalized! 

And Regicide, was going with SAO incarnations for Kirito and Asuna and Lyfa can have her Alfheim Online since we don't know anything about her Infinity Moment Counterpart.

Sorry that I didn't specify that earlier.


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## Regicide (Dec 23, 2013)

Do the SAO incarnations have any notable speed feats?

I mean apparently the ALO shit does, but that's something else entirely.


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## Huntring (Dec 23, 2013)

Wasn't there a supersonic feat in SAO?

I remember Greed posting something.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 23, 2013)

The only real answer is Ovan solos both series.



> Wasn't there a supersonic feat in SAO?
> 
> I remember Greed posting something.



They're supersonic. Especially in the one with the guns.


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## Regicide (Dec 23, 2013)

I suppose it's not particularly relevant since speed is now equalized, I was just wondering for future threads.


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## Linkofone (Dec 23, 2013)

MAPSK said:


> Again, that is my whole point. This match about the players of Elder Tale versus the players of Sword Art Online. It's not about which game has better avatars or game mechanics. Ergo, we should assume the capabilities of both parties are equalized. Otherwise it'd be a boring roflstomp for SAO because the game happened to be programmed with better mechanics. The victory wouldn't have anything to do with Kirito or his friends, it'd be because of the game.



Well you know match-up mishaps happen all the time. It is normal here I think? 



> After reading over the thread, going to say that speed is equalized!



Happy now Map?


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## MAPSK (Dec 23, 2013)

Very


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## ~Greed~ (Dec 23, 2013)

Regicide said:


> Do the SAO incarnations have any notable speed feats?





Huntring said:


> Wasn't there a supersonic feat in SAO?
> 
> I remember Greed posting something.



I think there was a supersonic feat for their SAO versions, but sadly it's now impossible to find since Baka-Tsuki has deleted SAO volume 1-6, since they are now licensed in the US.


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## ~Greed~ (Dec 23, 2013)

There are. I had them on my old computer. and they were on my external hard drive, but I'm pretty sure I deleted them a while back. I could probably still find them if I tried, but I'm lazy.


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## Regicide (Dec 23, 2013)

Mega Ultra Chicken said:


> There are. I had them on my old computer. and they were on my external hard drive, but I'm pretty sure I deleted them a while back. I could probably still find them if I tried, but I'm lazy.


These links still seem to work.

The full text of Volume 1 through 6 are apparently archived on the Wayback Machine though, so it doesn't really seem necessary.


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## Linkofone (Dec 23, 2013)

Reg, you could try finding it if you want to.


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## shade0180 (Dec 23, 2013)

Er this isn't something new we treat this the same way we treat .hack verse or GB verse or the Matrix or whatever fiction that has a virtual reality with better feats than their human self....

 why is this even a debate


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## Regicide (Dec 23, 2013)

Linkofone said:


> Reg, you could try finding it if you want to.


Hahahahahano.


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## Linkofone (Dec 23, 2013)

Regicide said:


> Hahahahahano.



Lolk. :B

Just seemed like you were interested in finding it or something. Maybe I misread.


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## Regicide (Dec 23, 2013)

I'm already a lazy bastard, I'm not going to read through six volumes of material for a feat that may or may not exist.

I'm sure if it really is there, Greed should have no problems finding it in the archives.


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## Linkofone (Dec 23, 2013)

Regicide said:


> I'm already a lazy bastard, I'm not going to read through six volumes of material for a feat that may or may not exist.
> 
> I'm sure if it really is there, Greed should have no problems finding it in the archives.



That sounds like work.


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## ~Greed~ (Dec 24, 2013)

Regicide said:


> These links still seem to work.
> 
> The full text of Volume 1 through 6 are apparently archived on the Wayback Machine though, so it doesn't really seem necessary.



Yea, I found it.


			
				SAO said:
			
		

> As Asuna swung her sword with a presence that overwhelmed everything around her, she saw that her opponent's HP had gone into the red zone and jumped back to widen the distance between them. After landing, she went straight into a charge attack. She dashed towards the fish, leaving a trail of light behind her as if she was a comet. It was one of the highest level rapier skills: ?Flashing Penetrator?.
> 
> *With a sound effect similar to a sonic boom, the comet penetrated the fish from its mouth to its tail. As Asuna skidded to a stop, the huge monster behind her fragmented into numerous bits of light and scattered. There was a loud smashing sound which created a huge ripple on the lake's surface.
> *
> ...


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## Linkofone (Dec 24, 2013)

Similar to a sonic boom? I guess that works.


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## Xam (Dec 24, 2013)

Somebody mentioned something about a sonic boom being possible in circumstances that wouldn't lead to supersonic speeds particularly.


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