# Minato vs Kabuto



## Yagura (Aug 5, 2013)

*Minato vs Kabuto​**Restrictions:* Edo Tensei, Shiki Fujin. 
*Knowledge:* Minato knows Kabuto is a sage, Kabuto has manga knowledge.
*Battlefield:* Sannin Battlefield. 
*Starting Distance:* 15 meters.
*State of Mind:* IC.
*Conditions:* Both start in base.


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## Rocky (Aug 5, 2013)

"Minato knows Kabuto is a Sage" translates to Minato kills him dead before he goes Sage Mode. 15m can be closed in one Shunshin.


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## Ennoia (Aug 5, 2013)

There should be nothing that Minato can do, Kabuto would likely shoot his snakes at Minato the same way he did against the Uchiha Brothers and proceed to hide in the snakes to enter SM. Even in base Kabuto has the abilities of Taka and Sound 4 and once he enters SM its really over. Minato's only option is Dead Demon but Kabuto should have knowledge because IIRC Hiruzen told Oro that it was Minato's jutsu. It will be an annoying fight but with sensing and his speed Kabuto should be capable of taking Minato out.

Actually just saw Dead Demon is restricted, Minato loses IMO.


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## Rocky (Aug 5, 2013)

Ennoia said:


> Kabuto would likely shoot his snakes at Minato the same way he did against the Uchiha Brothers and proceed to hide in the snakes to enter SM.



Which Minato will casually avoid, proceed to run Base Kabuto down, and tear him to shreds. 

The Uchiha brothers couldn't kill Kabtuo. Itachi even stopped the Sauce's shuriken, giving Kabuto time to transform. Once they figured out what was going on, Sasuke jumped in with the arrow, but it was too late.

Minato doesn't have to figure out anything, he's faster than Itachi & Sasuke, and he wants Kabuto dead.


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## Ennoia (Aug 5, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Which Minato will casually avoid, proceed to run Base Kabuto down, and tear him to shreds.
> 
> The Uchiha brothers couldn't kill Kabtuo. Itachi even stopped the Sauce's shuriken, giving Kabuto time to transform. Once they figured out what was going on, Sasuke jumped in with the arrow, but it was too late.
> 
> Minato doesn't have to figure out anything, he's faster than Itachi & Sasuke, and he wants Kabuto dead.



I highly doubt IC Minato is going to rush an opponent he knows nothing about without at least setting up FTG first. Even if he did he has nothing that would put Kabuto down because of Suigetsu's abilities and his own regeneration along with Karin's. 

You're right he would dodge, then he would set up FTG and by that time Kabuto would have already been in position to be gathering Sage energy.


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## Rocky (Aug 5, 2013)

Ennoia said:


> I highly doubt IC Minato is going to rush an opponent he knows nothing about without at least setting up FTG first. Even if he did he has nothing that would put Kabuto down because of Suigetsu's abilities and his own regeneration along with Karin's.



Minato knows Kabuto's a Sage. He'll set up Hiraishin while moving towards Kabuto, since all it takes is an arm swoop, and then get back to the deflowering of the sound Ninja.



> You're right he would dodge, then he would set up FTG and by that time Kabuto would have already been in position to be gathering Sage energy.



No, Kabuto will shoot snakes while Minato sets up. Minato will casually dodge, then run Kabuto down. It's an open battlefield.


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## Veracity (Aug 5, 2013)

How come Minato didn't do all this magical stuff against Ay and Obito?


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## Rocky (Aug 5, 2013)

There isn't anything magical about the body flicker, or a beatdown.


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## Ennoia (Aug 5, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Minato knows Kabuto's a Sage. He'll set up Hiraishin while moving towards Kabuto, since all it takes is an arm swoop, and then get back to the deflowering of the sound Ninja.
> 
> No, Kabuto will shoot snakes while Minato sets up. Minato will casually dodge, then run Kabuto down. It's an open battlefield.


The battlefield has large rocks to hide behind and again Minato has nothing to put Kabuto down with the initial blitz which I still dont think he would do. Just because he knows Kabuto can enter SM dosent mean he will blitz him because he knows nothing of Kabuto's abilities.

Even if we say he blitzes he hits Kabuto with Rasengan and Kabuto tanks it and goes underground to enter SM; this is also a viable option. When he comes back up there is nothing Minato can do but die.


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## FlamingRain (Aug 5, 2013)

Can't Kabuto use _Doton: Moguragakure no Jutsu_ and just hide underground until _Sennin Mōdo_ is ready?


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## Rocky (Aug 5, 2013)

Trying to argue Minato won't "blitz" on the basis of character is stupid, so please stop. Remember the whole "Yellow Flash" thing?

Minato has plenty of ways to prevent Kabuto from activating Sage Mode. Even if Minato _let's_ Kabuto go underground to try and do so, when he comes back up.....Minato will activate KCM continue spanking. 

Teleporting Kabuto to a remote location, sealing him into one of these "giant rocks" you speak of.....there are many ways around regeneration, and Minato will figure one of them out. Even though it may be fun to clean Kabuto's glasses with his fist, Minato will eventually rid himself of the problem. Whether it be through Fuinjutsu, BFR, or anything else Minato musters up.


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## Yagura (Aug 5, 2013)

Minato can seal people into rocks?


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## Ennoia (Aug 5, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Trying to argue Minato won't "blitz" on the basis of character is stupid, so please stop. Remember the whole "Yellow Flash" thing?


Being fast dosent automatically mean you will blitz someone, not many people blitz other people without knowing about their abilities. I can only think of A doing it and Sasuke doing it to Deidara.



> Minato has plenty of ways to prevent Kabuto from activating Sage Mode. Even if Minato _let's_ Kabuto go underground to try and do so, when he comes back up.....Minato will activate KCM continue spanking.


KCM changes nothing, we have not seen that it improves his speed nor his reactions only his chakra levels which would be apparent. With sensing there is nothing Minato can do nor does he counter genjutsu. B reacted to Minato's FTG im sure SM Kabuto can.



> Teleporting Kabuto to a remote location, sealing him into one of these "giant rocks" you speak of.....there are many ways around regeneration, and Minato will figure one of them out. Even though it may be fun to clean Kabuto's glasses with his fist, Minato will eventually rid himself of the problem. Whether it be through Fuinjutsu, BFR, or anything else Minato musters up.


He has to touch him to warp him which wont happen and he has to have a kunai at that location which he does not have prepped. I dont recall Minato sealing anyone into anything but himself either. He has no means to survive except running.


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## Rocky (Aug 5, 2013)

Yagura said:


> Minato can seal people into rocks?



Objects. The Shisho Fuin.


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## FlamingRain (Aug 5, 2013)

I'm betting what the description meant by "objects" was at least actual containers such as Itachi's jar, the kettle Shukaku came from, the _Kohaku no Jōhei_, _Benihisago_, _Gedō Mazō_, etc. Typically you wouldn't expect ninja to carry these things around everywhere either.

Honestly, being able to seal someone into a random rock just sounds ridiculous and I seriously doubt "objects" is referring to just "_any_ object". Heck if he could do that he should have picked up a rock (there were conveniently several nearby after _Rasengan_) and sealed Obito into it instead of bothering with breaking his control over the Kyūbi and giving its chakra to Naruto so he could fight a recovered Obito later. If that's possible and Minato's that stupid as to not go with it he probably won't even use the seal anyway.


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## Yagura (Aug 5, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Objects. The Shisho Fuin.



...that's rather farfetched. We've only seen that seal used in tandem with Shiki Fujin and have no idea of it's practicality in battle otherwise or whether it can even do what your proposing.


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## Rocky (Aug 6, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> I'm betting what the description meant by "objects" was at least actual containers such as Itachi's jar, the kettle Shukaku came from, the _Kohaku no Jōhei_, _Benihisago_, _Gedō Mazō_, etc. Typically you wouldn't expect ninja to carry these things around everywhere either.



It's possible, but that's just you're assumption. The Databook says nothing about this.



> Honestly, being able to seal someone into a random rock just sounds ridiculous and I seriously doubt "objects" is referring to just "_any_ object". Heck if he could do that he should have picked up a rock (there were conveniently several nearby after _Rasengan_) and sealed Obito into it instead of bothering with breaking his control over the Kyūbi and giving its chakra to Naruto so he could fight a recovered Obito later. If that's possible and Minato's that stupid as to not go with it he probably won't even use the seal anyway.



Minato had Obito marked. He could've followed Obito after defeating him and killed him there, but instead chose to protect the village from Kurama. The reasoning behind Minato's actions are all based off how the events unfolded. Also, just because someone didn't do something in the Manga is never a counter-argument to them doing it in an entirely different situation.



If you can't tell by now, I'm so going to roll with this until someone downright proves me factually wrong. The way the Databook is worded, this technique sounds very applicable in battle. 



Yagura said:


> ...that's rather farfetched. We've only seen that seal used in tandem with Shiki Fujin and have no idea of it's practicality in battle otherwise or whether it can even do what your proposing.



When proposed with a lack of feats, turn to the other source of canon, the Databook.


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## Sutātekken (Aug 6, 2013)

If Kabuto is already in Sage mode I can See Minato having a little difficulty just a little other wise Nah Base Kabuto is a Bug under Minato's boot


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## FlamingRain (Aug 6, 2013)

Rocky said:


> It's possible, but that's just you're assumption. The Databook says nothing about this.



And this is why I said "I'm betting". Though it isn't like the databook clarifies or even hints that he can use just any object either, so I'm just going with the assumption that doesn't make me go .



> Minato had Obito marked. He could've followed Obito after defeating him and killed him there, but instead chose to protect the village from Kurama.



Yes, but why bother with another seal and let him leave when _Shisho Fuin_ would have the same effect on Kurama _and_ he wouldn't need to worry about him afterwards. . .unless it just didn't work that way?



> If you can't tell by now, I'm so going to roll with this until someone downright proves me factually wrong. The way the Databook is worded, this technique sounds very applicable in battle.



Oh I can tell.


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## Yagura (Aug 6, 2013)

Rocky said:


> The way the Databook is worded, this technique sounds very applicable in battle.





Rocky said:


> When proposed with a lack of feats, turn to the other source of canon, the Databook.



The databook says nothing about it's practicality in battle nor is it worded in anyway that implies it is practical. We have no idea how this technique works without Shiki Fujin. I mean, if it really worked the way you want it to - why would Minato even need the Shinigami to do what he did?


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## Rocky (Aug 6, 2013)

Yagura said:


> Why would Minato even need the Shinigami to do what he did?



He actually didn't. I thought that was made clear.



Minato could've just sealed the beast back in Kushina, who would've died with it. Minato, however wanted Naruto to use the Kyuubi to eventually take on the Masked Man. He also didn't want to upset the balance of power by removing Konoha's Jinchuriki.

He also used the Hakke Fuin on Kushina sealing her remaining Chakra into Naruto. Why exactly could he not seal Kabuto's Chakra away?


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## LordSnow (Aug 6, 2013)

Both in base? Kabuto gets speedblitzed before he enters sage mode.


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## kupochan (Aug 6, 2013)

IC Minato = bamflash regardless of his knowledge.


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## Yagura (Aug 6, 2013)

Rocky said:


> He actually didn't. I thought that was made clear.
> 
> 
> Minato could've just sealed the beast back in Kushina, who would've died with it. Minato, however wanted Naruto to use the Kyuubi to eventually take on the Masked Man. He also didn't want to upset the balance of power by removing Konoha's Jinchuriki.



Not really, no. Reread the chapter. Kushina herself was going to drag the Kyubi back inside of her. No help from Minato.



Rocky said:


> He also used the Hakke Fuin on Kushina sealing her remaining Chakra into Naruto. Why exactly could he not seal Kabuto's Chakra away?


Again, how practical is that in battle? Have we ever even seen it used on panel? How do we even know that can seal a persons chakra away like that, especially if they're unwilling? This whole thing reeks of fanon. I suggest you stop making up uses for jutsu we've never actually seen simply so your favored character can win.  It's quite unbecoming.


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## Doctor Lamperouge (Aug 6, 2013)

Yagura said:


> I mean, if it really worked the way you want it to - why would Minato even need the Shinigami to do what he did?



Minato already made it clear it was impossible to seal the entire Kyuubi for him in one go. He needed to separate the Kyuubi in half so he could seal one half in Naruto and another with him, and for that he needed two seals, Shiki Fuin and Hakke Fuin. The fact still remains that he was able to seal half the Kyuubi, as well as his own chakra and Kushina's in Naruto with just Hakke Fuin.


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## Bonly (Aug 6, 2013)

Kabuto has the tools to deal with everything Minato can dish out and seems to be a good counter like Orochi. This likely comes down to who can outlast who.


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## Dil (Aug 6, 2013)

Kabuto will take this at the end with low- medium difficulty. It is too hard to actually kill Kabuto, with all the body modifications he has gone through and Oro's cells, I think he is impervious to any physical damage, and Minato can only inflict physical damage. Minato doesn't have any Genjutsu or any raw offensive power to do any damage to Kabuto, maybe apart from Rasengan but I doubt that will be enough to kill Kabuto in Sage Mode. 

Hiraishin won't be a help here, Minato would have to get close to tag Kabuto and Kabuto isn't exactly a slow person especially in Sage Mode + Kabuto can just shed his skin and appear somewhere else, Hakugeki no Jutsu  will preety much end Minato in the end. I don't see anything in Minato's arsenal that will help him out here, he will be outlasted.


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## Elite Uchiha (Aug 6, 2013)

Minato wins with low difficulty as Kabuto won't even have a chance to enter Sage Mode. Even if he does, STB + Hirashin + Reflexes = bye bye Kabuto.


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## Rocky (Aug 6, 2013)

Yagura said:


> Again, how practical is that in battle? Have we ever even seen it used on panel? How do we even know that can seal a persons chakra away like that, especially if they're unwilling? This whole thing reeks of fanon. I suggest you stop making up uses for jutsu we've never actually seen simply so your favored character can win.  It's quite unbecoming.



Actually, I'm not making up uses for the Fuinjutsu. I'm saying it will seal, like Fuinjutsu does. Both Kurama and Kushina's chakra were sealed by the technique. It's like you're blind. 

Why do you question it's practicality in battle? Where have you seen that _even questioned_? The Uzumaki primarily used it against giant monsters and evil spirits, and those are things you normally fight against. 



> How do we even know that can seal a persons chakra away like that,



Because he's sealed people's Chakra away with it. 



> especially if they're unwilling?



Kurama was pretty unwilling.

And that wouldn't even matter. This is a rather desperate attempt to find a loophole. "What if they don't want to be sealed?" Really now...?


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Aug 6, 2013)

Rocky said:


> "Minato knows Kabuto is a Sage" translates to Minato kills him dead before he goes Sage Mode. 15m can be closed in one Shunshin.



Kill him with what? With Kabuto's healing factors, this Shunshin + Rasengan/kunai combo just won't work.


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## Gin Ichimaru (Aug 6, 2013)

Minato can blitz Kabuto, Kabuto feels nothing because of water body and Orochimaru's regeneration an Karin's healing powers.

Minato can't put down Kabuto, whereas Kabuto goes into sage Mode and paralyzes Minato with his genjutsu.

Kabuto low difficulty


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## Rocky (Aug 6, 2013)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Kill him with what? With Kabuto's healing factors, this Shunshin + Rasengan/kunai combo just won't work.



Decapitation, Kabuto isn't immortal. 

Rasengan-Kunai works to deplete stamina as well.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Aug 6, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Decapitation, Kabuto isn't immortal.
> 
> Rasengan-Kunai works to deplete stamina as well.



Immortal, he isn't. However with the modified version of Suigetsu's ability, he isn't like Minato's usual opponents either.


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## Rocky (Aug 6, 2013)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Immortal, he isn't. However with the modified version of Suigetsu's ability, he isn't like Minato's usual opponents either.



He has to be able to activate Suigetsu's ability in time. Itachi & Sasuke made contact with him plenty of times.


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## Yagura (Aug 6, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Actually, I'm not making up uses for the Fuinjutsu. I'm saying it will seal, like Fuinjutsu does. Both Kurama and Kushina's chakra were sealed by the technique. It's like you're blind.



Yes, it can seal. Seal ethereal energy into a living container, as shown in the manga, that is. But physically seal a human being into some random rock? That's just making shit up. Or I suppose would more accurately described as a no limits fallacy. 


So you don't deny your rolling with this because you favor Minato?



Rocky said:


> Why do you question it's practicality in battle? Where have you seen that _even questioned_?



Because it doesn't seem practical at all. There's no reason to assume it is, either.

I want you to explain to me, step by step, how Minato will accomplish this. Does he just carve a symbol on a rock and instantly seal Kabuto? Is that what your proposing?



> Because he's sealed people's Chakra away with it.



How is he suppose to get to Kabuto's chakra? 



> Kurama was pretty unwilling.



You were talking about Kabuto's chakra. : \ I don't think Kabuto is just going willfully give it to him. Kurama just is chakra, so that's not a problem.



Rocky said:


> This is a rather desperate attempt to find a loophole. "What if they don't want to be sealed?" Really now...?



Pssh.  Your the one whose saying it can accomplish shit that was never implied or shown.


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## CaptainCommanderRenji (Aug 6, 2013)

Minato's only chance is initial blitz, which wont work, it never does. Kabuto will activate sage mode one way or another and after that he is on a completely different level. White rage GG.


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## Chad (Aug 6, 2013)

No Shiki Fujin?

In case people haven't realized, Minato has nothing that can actually wound Kabuto in this match up. His only damaging attacks are kunai swing and Rasengan. Both of which gets nullfified by Kabuto's Hydrification. Even without Hydrification, Karin's DNA and Shikotsumayu Kekkei genkai allows Kabuto to regenerate from any attack that Minato uses. To even further show Kabuto's regenerations abilities, Jugo's ability allows him to consume sage chakra and instantly regenerate. And even if Minato does somehow wound Kabuto, Oral Rebirth would restore his body to a new. By Kabuto's feats, gathering nature energy only takes a few pages in manga. By the time he goes in sage mode, it spells GG. Then all he needs is Mugen Onsa and a chakra scalpel to beat Minato.


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## Rocky (Aug 6, 2013)

Yagura said:


> Yes, it can seal. Seal ethereal energy into a living container, as shown in the manga, that is. But physically seal a human being into some random rock? That's just making shit up. Or I suppose would more accurately described as a no limits fallacy.



The databook says the techniques seals shit into Human Bodies or Objects. Is a rock an object?




> So you don't deny your rolling with this because you favor Minato?



Of course I am. 

I am pushing this to no end until I can't push it any further.



> Does he just carve a symbol on a rock and instantly seal Kabuto? Is that what your proposing?



Yeah, sure. He places the symbol on an object of his choosing, and seals Kabuto or his Chakra into it.



> How is he suppose to get to Kabuto's chakra?



Same way he got to Kurama's or Kushina's.



> Kurama just is chakra, so that's not a problem.



Kurama is skin, meat, bones, teeth, claws, etc. He isn't just Chakra in the sense the Preta could absorb him.



> Your the one whose saying it can accomplish shit that was never implied or shown.



Hakke fuin has sealed things before.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Aug 6, 2013)

Rocky said:


> He has to be able to activate Suigetsu's ability in time. Itachi & Sasuke made contact with him plenty of times.



Sasuke stabbed a part of Kabuto with his arrow... he was able to use the modded version of Suigetsu's ability to render that useless (damage-wise).


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## Eliyua23 (Aug 6, 2013)

Minato being a toad summoner should know a good deal about Sage Mode, Kabut hasn't shown speed or reflexes on the level of Bee and Obito who h e was able to tag, once he tags Obito good riddance.


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