# Knife Zoro vs DFless Luffy



## Extravlad (Feb 15, 2013)

Location : Mocktown

Distance : 15 meters

Post TS.


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## Imagine (Feb 15, 2013)

Luffy wins. Superior CoA pushes this in his favor. Zoro also has a plain ass knife here.


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## Shinthia (Feb 15, 2013)

Luffy wins


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## Extravlad (Feb 15, 2013)

High diff ? Extrem diff ?


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## Bungee Gum (Feb 15, 2013)

Luffy takes the knife and kills Zoro

low dif


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## zorokuma (Feb 15, 2013)

wouldnt zoro's attack speed blitz non g2 luffy?


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## Bungee Gum (Feb 15, 2013)

show me some post skip zoro speed feats

oh wait he has none


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## Imagine (Feb 15, 2013)

Even if Zoro's attack speed was actually faster than Luffy's base movement it's not that damn fast to where it would blitz him.


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## Bungee Gum (Feb 15, 2013)

he couldn't blitz him even if he was G2 fast. 

haki bitches


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## Extravlad (Feb 15, 2013)

And if I change the knife by a normal sword?


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## zorokuma (Feb 15, 2013)

Goova said:


> he couldn't blitz him even if he was G2 fast.
> 
> haki bitches



Zoro has coo too, and since he should be faster than base luffy, does that mean that luffy cant touch him?


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## Imagine (Feb 15, 2013)

zorokuma said:


> Zoro has coo too, and since he should be faster than base luffy, does that mean that luffy cant touch him?


There's nothing that suggest Zoro is faster than Luffy in base.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Feb 15, 2013)

Luffy extreme difficulty


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## Shinthia (Feb 15, 2013)

zorokuma said:


> Zoro has coo too, and since he should be faster than base luffy, does that mean that luffy cant touch him?



only if u think ,Base EL Luffy cant touch EL Zoro in speed.


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## zorokuma (Feb 15, 2013)

im sorry but zoro wins this in my opinion. he loses a large amount of power from the loss of his swords. but luffy loses durability, power and speed with the loss of his df.  and since they were close 2 begin with, since luffy loses more stats, he loses.


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## Typhon (Feb 15, 2013)

Wow, Luffy is being really underestimated if people think he can't handle the likes of the other M3 without his DF. 

What exactly is suggesting Zoro would own Luffy without his DF? Luffy even without his DF has reactions that rival Zoro's, superior haki, and can still take a beating even without being immune to blunt force. (Blackbeard slamming him and if you wanna go there, pretty much every top tier that hit him.)  

Plus Zoro has no speed feats indicating he can blitz Luffy who would handle people faster then him anyway.

Luffy wins.


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## Silver (Feb 15, 2013)

people overrate knifes swords


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## Skream (Feb 15, 2013)

Base luffy is the same speed as zoro, are you guys retarded? Luffy loses his blunt damage immunity. gear 2/3 power ups, and stretching ability. Zoro wins


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## Pink Matter (Feb 15, 2013)

Skream said:


> Base luffy is the same speed as zoro, are you guys retarded? Luffy loses his blunt damage immunity. gear 2/3 power ups, and stretching ability. Zoro wins



Pretty sure Luffys faster. Also, Zoro never deals blunt force damage anyway. Luffy will overpower Zoro without too much trouble.


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## Lycka (Feb 15, 2013)

zoro high difficulty.

*Zoro is physically stronger *(the only reason luffy packs a harder punch is due to the momentum from is devil fruit)
*Zoro is faster than base luffy by a good margin*, (unless you think luffy can completely blitz and dominate people on a seriously similar level to him.) "heads up he can't." while G2 is a noticeable speed boost, its become a casual thing that doesn't decide the outcome of a fight, like sanji's diable jiambe.

*Zoro can still slice luffy*, (haki isn't a factor at all here.) 


even without a sword and just a knife a fight between a weaponless Zoro, and luffy is still in zoro's favor due to the fact that luffy loses a much bigger gulp of his powers than luffy, speed, strength, and immunity.

zoro high difficulty.


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## Lycka (Feb 15, 2013)

Pink Matter said:


> *Pretty sure Luffys faster*. Also, Zoro never deals blunt force damage anyway. Luffy will overpower Zoro without too much trouble.



if that was truly true, G2 luffy would blitz and low-mid diff Zoro with his df.

And we know that's not happening *at all*.

With COO speed won't even be a deciding factor, why don't people realize this i mean do you think kizaru could beat marineford whitebeard despite being much, much faster than him.


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## Pink Matter (Feb 15, 2013)

OPtiers said:


> if that was truly true, G2 luffy would blitz and low-mid diff Zoro with his df.
> 
> And we know that's not happening *at all*.
> 
> With COO speed won't even be a deciding factor, why don't people realize this i mean do you think kizaru could beat marineford whitebeard despite being much, much faster than him.



I'm referring to movement speed. Unlike Luffy, Zoro isn't jumping and dashing all the time  in his fights. IMO Zoro has superior reaction speed and this prevents Luffy from blitzing him. 

As for Whitebeard vs Kizaru, same thing. WB has insane reaction speed and CoO. Besides the instant where WB snuck up on Akainu, WB was relatively stationary and reacted to most of the attacks.


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## Lycka (Feb 15, 2013)

it was stated the WB at the war had very poor reactions by Marco. (got stabbed by squardo)

also movement speed is debate-able.but I agree on reaction speed


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## Typhon (Feb 15, 2013)

OPtiers said:


> zoro high difficulty.
> 
> *Zoro is physically stronger *(the only reason luffy packs a harder punch is due to the momentum from is devil fruit)



You can't prove that...



> *Zoro is faster than base luffy by a good margin*, (unless you think luffy can completely blitz and dominate people on a seriously similar level to him.) "heads up he can't." while G2 is a noticeable speed boost, its become a casual thing that doesn't decide the outcome of a fight, like sanji's diable jiambe.



Can't prove that either and even if he was Luffy has high reflexes on top of CoO that could easily deal with people faster then him. Oh and Base Luffy can match Zoro is raw speed.

Luffy can't blitz those people for the same reason Blueno couldn't blitz him 



> *Zoro can still slice luffy*, (haki isn't a factor at all here.)



Luffy can still cave Zoro's face in, (Haki is a non factor at all here.)




> even without a sword and just a knife a fight between a weaponless Zoro, and luffy is still in zoro's favor due to the fact that luffy loses a much bigger gulp of his powers than luffy, speed, strength, and immunity.



Bull shit, the user makes the DF, not the other way around. The only thing Luffy is losing that would really make a difference are his gears which put him well past Zoro in the first place.


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## tanman (Feb 16, 2013)

Luffy wins.
If you haven't noticed, blitzing isn't a very common occurrence in this series. 
The speed difference has to be huge for that to happen.

Zoro will have to get in real close for this fight, and Luffy hits far harder than any knife in that range.


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## Coruscation (Feb 16, 2013)

I thought it was pretty well accepted in a thread sometime back that DF-less Luffy vs. swordless Zoro is a good match that could go either way? Zoro is at least equipped with a weapon here that has some similarity to what he normally uses. Luffy's primary weapon is taken from him entirely. Luffy's punches wouldn't do more damage than cuts from Zoro's knife. In terms of physicality they should be virtually equal but Zoro in all likelihood has superior reflexes/COO since it's basically certain that he deal with a G2-boosted Luffy no problem. So if anything Luffy is taking more hits and those hits will hurt at least as much. Zoro wins.


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## Shinthia (Feb 16, 2013)

a tiny (not even 3 tiny knife to go 3 knife style that Zoro is comfortable with) knife will not make that much difference here. Luffy's training was based on haki and i believe Zoro's training was focused in increasing the strength & range (as far as we saw). Luffy has better CoA mastery than Zoro and luffy is better at hand to hand combat ,which is not restricted here. Luffy wins Coru


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## Extravlad (Feb 16, 2013)

Coruscation you underrate Luffy.

Luffy IS a fighter he know how to use his body, his legs and his arms

Zoro isn't, he has no chance to defeat Luffy if he is swordless

Luffy has obviously better CoA and CoO.

And in terms of physicality Luffy > Zoro manga proves it


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## Sayonara (Feb 16, 2013)

Luffy clearly has the bigger handicap he loses of lot of his fighting style and gears, not that Zoro doesn't lose a lot either but that's too big a gap. Still with endurance/durability staying the same and massive drop in attack power on both sides this will probably be a long fight.


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## Coruscation (Feb 16, 2013)

I'm not underrating him. You are dismissing the importance of the fact that Gear Second has become something that people around his level deal with pretty easily, it's no big deal anymore. That includes Zoro. So just imagine taking away G2 altogether. Things are now clearly in Zoro's favor. I prefer to think it's perception and reflexes rather than physicality but either way, the only way you could deny it is by denying G2's drop in effectiveness since the timeskip. And that would just be sad because it's so obviously the case.


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## Extravlad (Feb 16, 2013)

Even without G2 Luffy is strong have you forget Alabasta and Skypiea ?

Luffy was training during 10 years for become a good fighter.

Zoro has no experience without sword he don't know how to punch correctly


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## Bonly Jr. (Feb 16, 2013)

Goova said:


> show me some post skip zoro speed feats
> 
> oh wait he has none



Oh, I don't know, maybe when he attacked the Kraken under water, and Usopp said it was so fast, he never even saw the attack...


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## Coruscation (Feb 16, 2013)

Strong but not strong enough. Oda has made that plain and clear.

He has a knife. A swordsman can use a knife just fine.


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## Canute87 (Feb 16, 2013)

OPtiers said:


> zoro high difficulty.
> 
> *Zoro is physically stronger *(the only reason luffy packs a harder punch is due to the momentum from is devil fruit)
> *Zoro is faster than base luffy by a good margin*, (unless you think luffy can completely blitz and dominate people on a seriously similar level to him.) "heads up he can't." while G2 is a noticeable speed boost, its become a casual thing that doesn't decide the outcome of a fight, like sanji's diable jiambe.
> ...



Bullshit.**


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## Typhon (Feb 16, 2013)

Coruscation said:


> I'm not underrating him. You are dismissing the importance of the fact that Gear Second has become something that people around his level deal with pretty easily, it's no big deal anymore. That includes Zoro. So just imagine taking away G2 altogether. Things are now clearly in Zoro's favor. I prefer to think it's perception and reflexes rather than physicality but either way, the only way you could deny it is by denying G2's drop in effectiveness since the timeskip. And that would just be sad because it's so obviously the case.



What? No one post time skip has dealt with gear 2 easily. So no that obviously is not the case. 

To add onto that Luffy has done hardened attacks that hurt way more then his gear 2 attacks. His damage output isn't going to be that nerfed.


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## Coruscation (Feb 16, 2013)

*Monet* stopped a *Hardened G2* Gatling. Your argument is invalid.


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## Extravlad (Feb 16, 2013)

Nop Luffy destroys Monet's protection.


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## Typhon (Feb 16, 2013)

Coruscation said:


> *Monet* stopped a *Hardened G2* Gatling. Your argument is invalid.



Luffy would have easily handled Monet and you know it. And the move she used was easily destroyed. She also had to restrict Luffy to even do anything so no, she didn't easily handle G2 Luffy.

No one has easily dealt with a gear 2 Luffy and somebody intercepting something that wasn't meant for them isn't even that great of a feat. (Atleast thats what most of the OL says when something like Jinbei or Shanks blocking a magma punch is brought up.)


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## Imagine (Feb 16, 2013)

Omnation said:


> Luffy would have easily handled Monet and you know it. And the move she used was easily destroyed. She also had to restrict Luffy to even do anything so no, she didn't easily handle G2 Luffy.
> 
> No one has easily dealt with a* gear 2 Luffy and somebody intercepting something that wasn't meant for them isn't even that great of a feat.* (Atleast thats what most of the OL says when something like Jinbei or Shanks blocking a magma punch is brought up.)


It is a great feat. It shows she has speed and very strong defense. And Jinbei's feat was great as well. It should be expected of Shanks and he had a much easier time blocking Akainu than Jinbei did.


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## Typhon (Feb 16, 2013)

Imagine said:


> It is a great feat. It shows she has speed and very strong defense. And Jinbei's feat was great as well. It should be expected of Shanks and he had a much easier time blocking Akainu than Jinbei did.



Just going off what others have said. 

Although, Monet's showing against the other SHs kinda makes what she did earlier get put into question.


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## Shingy (Feb 16, 2013)

Coruscation said:


> I'm not underrating him. You are dismissing the importance of the fact that Gear Second has become something that people around his level deal with pretty easily, it's no big deal anymore. That includes Zoro. So just imagine taking away G2 altogether. Things are now clearly in Zoro's favor. I prefer to think it's perception and reflexes rather than physicality but either way, the only way you could deny it is by denying G2's drop in effectiveness since the timeskip. And that would just be sad because it's so obviously the case.



Base Luffy is on par with all fighters of his level. That goes with strength, speed, and stamina.

You take Luffy's devil fruit away, and he's still a brawler that can utilize all three types of haki.

You're overrating the power of his devil fruit, and underrating his base stats.

There's no way Zoro takes this with a knife. That's like Sanji only being able to fight with his toe.

Luffy would stomp Zoro in these scenarios, no question.


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## Coruscation (Feb 16, 2013)

Strength and stamina sure. But if Zoro can deal with G2 easily -- which he can, since as I'm sure you're well aware, Oda is now freely having people who are garbage fodder to Zoro stop Hardened Jet attacks -- then there's something else going on in the "speed" category. That something is most likely Zoro having superior perception and reflexes.



> Luffy would have easily handled Monet and you know it



It doesn't matter. It has nothing to do with that. It has to do with one thing: G2's nerfage. Oda is now letting someone who is _fodder_ to Zoro stop a _Hardened_ G2 attack. And you think there's the tiniest chance that Zoro can't handle G2?


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## Shingy (Feb 16, 2013)

Coruscation said:


> Strength and stamina sure. But if Zoro can deal with G2 easily -- which he can, since as I'm sure you're well aware, Oda is now freely having people who are garbage fodder to Zoro stop Hardened Jet attacks -- then there's something else going on in the "speed" category. That something is most likely Zoro having superior perception and reflexes.



You're acting as if Monet tanked the hardened jet gattling.

She was never once hit by Luffy. Her strongest barrier crumbled after she intercepted Luffy's attempt to knock Caesar out for quite a bit. You of all people should know Luffy's carelessness around these types of matters.

All of Luffy's attacks were meant to knock him out, _not kill him._

Even so, that attack would have hurt Zoro a shit load, had it hit him, and it sure as hell would have 1 hit both Caesar and Monet had it hit them as well.

Speed isn't everything, and that's basically the only thing Zoro has over Luffy here. Reflexes, perceptions, etc, would all be on Luffy's side, unless you think Zoro's mastery over those are higher than Luffy's. That's all CoO.

The outcome of this match is plain and obvious.


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## Typhon (Feb 16, 2013)

Coruscation said:


> It doesn't matter. It has nothing to do with that. It has to do with one thing: G2's nerfage. Oda is now letting someone who is _fodder_ to Zoro stop a _Hardened_ G2 attack. And you think there's the tiniest chance that Zoro can't handle G2?



I think you're underestimating Gear 2 and Luffy as a whole if you think Gears is the only reason Luffy can still contend with Zoro.


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## Coruscation (Feb 16, 2013)

> You're acting as if Monet tanked the hardened jet gattling.
> 
> She was never once hit by Luffy. Her strongest barrier crumbled



No, she just stopped it. And don't excuse it with the wall breaking. Caesar was still protected from the impact. This happened. G2+Haki was stopped.

Yeah, except that she created a ten times stronger barrier next time we saw her. It's not even funny how shat on Luffy was in that scene. It pretty much 100% destroyed all G2's credibility, whatever was left anyway.

This isn't about Luffy's carelessness. It's not about feats. *It's about how Oda treats Gear Second after the timeskip*. He has massively degraded it, it's nothing special anymore, people who are garbage fodder to Zoro stop G2+Hardening attacks in their tracks. And in this match Luffy is _stripped_ of G2. That leaves him in an extremely, extremely bad position against someone so close, if not equal to him as Zoro. Zoro's attacks will do more damage. Even from a knife, cuts are stronger than punches since Luffy's punches which have also been nerfed into near enough nothingness since the timeskip. Luffy's attacks do basically no damage anymore as exemplified Caesar's tanking. But cuts are as strong as ever. A sword slash from Tashigi is stronger than a bloodlusted Haki punch from Luffy, that's how tremendously gigantic the difference is. So Zoro will do more damage and hit Luffy easier than the reverse. How could he lose?


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## Typhon (Feb 16, 2013)

Coruscation said:


> No, she just stopped it. And don't excuse it with the wall breaking. Caesar was still protected from the impact. This happened. G2+Haki was stopped.
> 
> Yeah, except that she created a ten times stronger barrier next time we saw her. It's not even funny how shat on Luffy was in that scene. It pretty much 100% destroyed all G2's credibility, whatever was left anyway.
> 
> This isn't about Luffy's carelessness. It's not about feats. *It's about how Oda treats Gear Second after the timeskip*. He has massively degraded it, it's nothing special anymore, people who are garbage fodder to Zoro stop G2+Hardening attacks in their tracks. And in this match Luffy is _stripped_ of G2. That leaves him in an extremely, extremely bad position against someone so close, if not equal to him as Zoro. Zoro's attacks will do more damage. Even from a knife, cuts are stronger than punches since *Luffy's punches which have also been nerfed into near enough nothingness since the timeskip. Luffy's attacks do basically no damage anymore as exemplified Caesar's tanking. But cuts are as strong as ever. A sword slash from Tashigi is stronger than a bloodlusted Haki punch from Luffy, that's how tremendously gigantic the difference is. *So Zoro will do more damage and hit Luffy easier than the reverse. How could he lose?



 

You can't tell me you're serious when you say that.


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## Coruscation (Feb 16, 2013)

A single slash from Tashigi KOs Monet.

Monet stops Luffy's Hardened G2 Gatling. Luffy has to punch Caesar Clown half a dozen times to start getting him close to his endurance limit.

It's nothing more than 1 + 1 = 2.


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## Shingy (Feb 16, 2013)

Coruscation said:


> No, she just stopped it. And don't excuse it with the wall breaking. Caesar was still protected from the impact. This happened. G2+Haki was stopped.
> 
> Yeah, except that she created a ten times stronger barrier next time we saw her. It's not even funny how shat on Luffy was in that scene. It pretty much 100% destroyed all G2's credibility, whatever was left anyway.
> 
> This isn't about Luffy's carelessness. It's not about feats. It's about how Oda treats Gear Second after the timeskip. He has massively degraded it, it's nothing special anymore, people who are garbage fodder to Zoro stop G2+Hardening attacks in their tracks. And in this match Luffy is _stripped_ of G2. That leaves him in an extremely, extremely bad position against someone so close, if not equal to him as Zoro. Zoro's attacks will do more damage. Even from a knife, cuts are stronger than punches since Luffy's punches which have also been nerfed into near enough nothingness since the timeskip. Luffy's attacks do basically no damage anymore as exemplified Caesar's tanking. But cuts are as strong as ever. *A sword slash from Tashigi is stronger than a bloodlusted Haki punch from Luffy*, that's how tremendously gigantic the difference is. So Zoro will do more damage and hit Luffy easier than the reverse. How could he lose?



 That's too far.

Cuts are not stronger than punches. They ignore durability and slice through defenses, through slashing durability.

You are severely underrating Luffy now. Once again, you're acting like Luffy's going all out, each and every time he punches someone.

That is not the case. You can control how much strength you put behind a punch. Luffy does not want to kill anybody, and that's not in his nature. Zoro's the exact opposite. If he wants to slice something, he'll either go through it with full force, or not do it at all. This is excluding warning shots he gives. I think you're forgetting how much killing intent Zoro has. It's been highlighted so many times.

You do know Monet _just_ shit her pants, and could barely stand up, and finally succeeded in standing up, whilst shaking tremendously. That was when Tashigi striked the guard-less Monet from the back.

This is getting out of hand. Luffy has never, ever, *ever* done anything after the time skip that suggests the power behind his attacks have been way below the power of his peers.


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## Typhon (Feb 16, 2013)

Coruscation said:


> A single slash from Tashigi KOs Monet.
> 
> Monet stops Luffy's Hardened G2 Gatling. Luffy has to punch Caesar Clown half a dozen times to start getting him close to his endurance limit.
> 
> It's nothing more than 1 + 1 = 2.



Tashigi beats a Monet who thought she just died and never had to deal with Monet's snow huts.

>Luffy wrecks a pacifista with one jet pistol
>Punches Hody so hard he breaks a cliffside with a hardened bullet
>Almost destroys an island sized object

These three alone craps on what Tashigi has done. If Luffy hit Monet with any of these, she would have been reduced to paste. Don't try to downplay Caeser. He's a tank, so what. That speaks for Caeser, not the other way around. Just because Luffy din't one shot Caeser like you expected him to doesn't mean Luffy has been nerfed to hell.


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## Coruscation (Feb 16, 2013)

Cuts (from Zoro) are unbelievably far stronger than punches (from Luffy). That's not even slightly debatable. Luffy has to punch everyone and their mothers a million times to put them down, Zoro uses one move and gets the job done.

You're not getting it. You debate feats. That is all wrong. Feats are basically completely untrustworthy nowadays since Oda started doing whatever he wants and stopped caring about such things as making his main character look respectable. I debate portrayal. Everything I've said is exactly how it's been portrayed, by Oda. Is it really, exactly the case? Obviously not. The point is that he is willing to go such an extreme length with the way he portrays Luffy and has his advanced techniques fail left and right against fodder enemies. So if you strip Luffy of even those techniques and put him up against freaking Zoro, he won't be able to win. That's the argument, the most simple case for why Zoro with a knife beats Luffy without his Devil Fruit.



> If Luffy hit Monet with any of these, she would have been reduced to paste. Don't try to downplay Caeser. He's a tank, so what.



Laughable. Do I seriously need to remind you that Monet _stopped an attack that Caesar could only stare at and piss his pants_. She is right on the same level as Caesar in fighting power. Might have a little less durability, not anything that really matters. Caesar took half a dozen punches and was still kicking. Monet would obviously take at least 3-4. A single hit from Tashigi put her down. It's right there, in Oda's own writing. Tashigi slash > Luffy bloodlusted punch.


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## Shingy (Feb 16, 2013)

Coruscation said:


> Cuts (from Zoro) are unbelievably far stronger than punches (from Luffy). That's not even slightly debatable. Luffy has to punch everyone and their mothers a million times to put them down, Zoro uses one move and gets the job done.
> 
> You're not getting it. You debate feats. That is all wrong. Feats are basically completely untrustworthy nowadays since Oda started doing whatever he wants and stopped caring about such things as making his main character look respectable. I debate portrayal. Everything I've said is exactly how it's been portrayed, by Oda. Is it really, exactly the case? Obviously not. The point is that he is willing to go such an extreme length with the way he portrays Luffy and has his advanced techniques fail left and right against fodder enemies. So if you strip Luffy of even those techniques and put him up against freaking Zoro, he won't be able to win. That's the argument, the most simple case for why Zoro with a knife beats Luffy without his Devil Fruit.



Luffy's feats also show plenty of portrayal. Destroying a pacifista, the same one that almost soloed the crew 2 years ago, in one punch. 

You're downplaying the portrayal, and exaggerating certain feats.

If she sees Luffy's Gear 3rd falling from the sky, about to plummet onto her face, and Luffy backs it up with killing intent, you'd get the same reaction.

GDM was a pretty great named attack, and its focus was directly on the object, and not surrounding damage.


The fact of the matter is, Zoro does not know how to hold back, and Luffy is underestimating his opponents and knowingly, puts little power behind his attacks.

Take for example, Luffy's three jet pistols at fishman island, on the 3 fishmen trying to kidnap them. Are you going to base all of Luffy's attacks just on that single portrayal of fishmen tanking his shots to hype them? This is extremely unreasonable, even if you say you're debating strictly portrayal.


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## Lycka (Feb 16, 2013)

Corustraction is 100% right on everything.^^^


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## Typhon (Feb 16, 2013)

You really wanna go there Coruscation? Zoro couldn't even take down a non-dosed up Hody. his slash was so slow that hody could pick up a fodder henchman and block it. Obviously Oda is portraying Zoro's cutting power and execution speed to be total garbage right? 

It's called matchups. Monet had a technique that could actually block Luffy, Caeser didn't. If Caeser were to fight Monet, she would have been combusted into flames or devoid of oxygen.

Monet would not take a hardened bullet to the face and still be kicking. Unless you failed to notice how when Luffy started busting out his more powerful attacks, Caeser somehow managed to save himself. 

>Monet saves him from gatling
>He dodges a gear 3rd hardened pistol that had no incoming warning

He finally gets hit by one of Luffy's more powerful attacks and is one shotted even though Caeser got a powerup. So like I said before, if Monet was hit by one of Luffy's more powerful attacks, she would have gotten one shotted. Plain and simple. A blood lusted punch from Luffy>>>>> Tashigi's slash.


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## Skream (Feb 16, 2013)

Zoro's attacks are definitely more lethal than luffy. to be honesty zoro would beat luffy in a 1 vs 1 match but luffy would do better on other brawlers.


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## Lycka (Feb 16, 2013)

@omination

zoro was underwater and everyone commented on his insane speed. body is naturally much faster. also hody bit luffy. moot point. 

Monet could take a hardened bullet from luffy and still kick, zoro can slash her without haki and she's done for.

gear 3 is noticeably slower than g2 moot point.





the fact that luffy needed to bust out his second strongest attack shown to date to beat some fodder is just  on luffys part.

zoro would cleave ceaser in half eaisly with a shi shi son son.


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## Coruscation (Feb 16, 2013)

> Take for example, Luffy's three jet pistols at fishman island, on the 3 fishmen trying to kidnap them. Are you going to base all of Luffy's attacks just on that single portrayal of fishmen tanking his shots to hype them? This is extremely unreasonable, even if you say you're debating strictly portrayal.



Sorry, but I'm not the one being unreasonable. G2 is being constantly degraded and treated like crap. When this happened in the past, with base Luffy after Enies Lobby, it was because base Luffy was in fact nothing special anymore. He was still strong, sure, but he wouldn't be able to beat Zoro or any peer anymore. Now Oda is doing the same thing to G2 which is why we see it fail and fail since the timeskip. It doesn't mean that G2 is _weak_, not really, but it's much weaker than it used to be and simply put nothing special. Someone as strong as Zoro would easily deal with it. So if you take away even G2, it's obvious what the result would be. Oda made it so.



> It's called matchups. Monet had a technique that could actually block Luffy, Caeser didn't. If Caeser were to fight Monet, she would have been combusted into flames or devoid of oxygen.
> 
> Monet would not take a hardened bullet to the face and still be kicking.



It's called speed and reflexes. Monet intercepted a moving G2 Luffy's Haki Jet Gatling. Caesar could never remotely react to G2. Techniques don't just randomly block Haki Jet Gatlings, the user gives them power. The user in this case being Monet.

Caesar took a normal punch not a Bullet. And 5 more attacks, and was still conscious. Obviously Monet could take one punch since she is blatantly on the same level as Caesar.


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## Typhon (Feb 16, 2013)

OPtiers said:


> @omination
> 
> zoro was underwater and everyone commented on his insane speed. body is naturally much faster. also hody bit luffy. moot point.
> 
> ...


>Base hody gets tagged by Zoro
>Overdosed Hody can move faster then the mermen who are known as the fastest creatures underwater and is still caught by Luffy. 

Get out of here with that BS.

Alright OPtiers, lets just ignore that Monet got up and was ready to assassinate Zoro until Tashigi saved his ass. 

Doesn't matter, the sheer size of gear 3 in the closed room where Monet and the SHs were fighting would leave her nowhere to dodge. As a matter of fact Gear 3 was so powerful that just grazing Caeser caused damage.


----------



## Lycka (Feb 16, 2013)

"assassinate zoro"?   bahahaha ok


>Implyin he was in any real danger.



what about g3 its slow damage has nothing to do what I'm talking about.


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Feb 16, 2013)

Luffy's gear 2 was reacted to and blocked by Hyzou prior to him reaching his plateau with pills. Zoro blitzed and destroyed hyzou. G2 is nothing special to Zoro or anyone of his ilk. 

Base Zoro reactions exceed Base Luffy by a fair margin. 

Predictive ability may or may not be in Luffy's favor since neither of them really used it much in fights against decent opponents. 

Strength likely remains even in base, but Zoro exceeds and dominates Df-less Luffy as son as he uses Asura. haki armament for luffy does not make up the gap given zoro can probably sport some too.

sword techniques can still be used with a knife. Onigiri Knife!

Zoro low difficulty.


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## Shingy (Feb 16, 2013)

Cthulhu-versailles said:


> Luffy's gear 2 was reacted to and blocked by Hyzou prior to him reaching his plateau with pills. Zoro blitzed and destroyed hyzou. G2 is nothing special to Zoro or anyone of his ilk.
> 
> Base Zoro reactions exceed Luffy. Predictive ability may or may not be in Luffy's favor since neither of them really used it much in fights against decent opponents.
> 
> ...



You realize Zoro can only use a knife in this scenario?


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## Typhon (Feb 16, 2013)

Coruscation said:


> It's called speed and reflexes. Monet intercepted a moving G2 Luffy's Haki Jet Gatling. Caesar could never remotely react to G2. Techniques don't just randomly block Haki Jet Gatlings, the user gives them power. The user in this case being Monet.
> 
> Caesar took a normal punch not a Bullet. And 5 more attacks, and was still conscious. Obviously Monet could take one punch since she is blatantly on the same level as Caesar.


Thats giving Monet the benefit of a doubt, she herself has no durability feats. I still think she would go down after the likes of a hardened bazooka or such.

Yeah Monet did all that and still got owned by the SHs a couple chapter later. For some reason she used none of that power and speed against even the likes of Zoro. If you based her showing off soley that, Luffy would one shot her no problems asked. 


OPtiers said:


> "assassinate zoro"?   bahahaha ok
> 
> 
> >Implyin he was in any real danger.



Not the point, you said Zoro beat her. Technically he didn't since she got back up and was ready to kill him. Obviously Zoro wasn't in any real danger.





> what about g3 its slow damage has nothing to do what I'm talking about.



Then whats your point?


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## Coruscation (Feb 16, 2013)

> Thats giving Monet the benefit of a doubt, she herself has no durability feats. I still think she would go down after the likes of a hardened bazooka or such.
> 
> Yeah Monet did all that and still got owned by the SHs a couple chapter later. For some reason she used none of that power and speed against even the likes of Zoro



If she has speed & reflexes higher than Caesar and is more of a fighter in general, why would her durability not be on a similar level? That really makes no sense so there's no reason to assume it. She could take the same punch and stay conscious, most likely a few more. Tashigi took her out in one slash. Tashigi's slash >= Luffy's bloodlusted Hardened punch. It's right there in Oda's writing.

The reason is shitty sloppy writing. The point about G2/Luffy's punches remains nonetheless just like it has done in the past.


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## Extravlad (Feb 16, 2013)

> Tashigi's slash >= Luffy's bloodlusted Hardened punch. It's right there in Oda's writing.


Monet never tank Luffy's bloodlusted hardened punch.



> Monet intercepted a moving G2 Luffy's Haki Jet Gatling


Monet's protection was destroyed by Luffy's attack


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## Lycka (Feb 16, 2013)

the point Is she intercepted it meaning she's fast.


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## Extravlad (Feb 16, 2013)

OPtiers said:


> the point Is she intercepted it meaning she's fast.



She intercepted because Luffy wasn't moving.


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## zorokuma (Feb 16, 2013)

come on people this should not even be a debate.

luffy at full power and zoro at full power is an extremely close match up with luffy barely edging him. if you take away luffy's df he loses strength, speed and durability. you give zoro a knife and he loses strength. luffy can no longer use any named attacks.  zoro can use weaker versions of his one sword style attacks.  zoro has reaction speed to react and pressure a g2 luffy. base luffy is significantly slower.

Luffy will get stabbed in the face.  he needs g2 to be able to handle someone like zoro. do you guys really see luffy knocking zoro out with normal haki punches? and thats if he could hit him.


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## Shingy (Feb 16, 2013)

This is the worst fucking thread I have ever laid my eyes upon.

Luffy fucking stomps. Fuck.


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## Skream (Feb 17, 2013)

Shingy said:


> This is the worst fucking thread I have ever laid my eyes upon.
> 
> Luffy fucking stomps. Fuck.



prove it my friend


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## Lycka (Feb 17, 2013)

Shingy said:


> This is the worst fucking thread I have ever laid my eyes upon.
> 
> Luffy loses. Fuck me.



....................


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## TrainerRed (Feb 17, 2013)

This is some funny shit...




*cough* 

Luffy stomps.


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## Shinthia (Feb 17, 2013)

Wanker does not simply admit Zori loses.


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## TrainerRed (Feb 17, 2013)

Reasons like this is why Zoro threads are the best...

They can't sleep until they've convinced the world that Zoro and Luffy are equals


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## Canute87 (Feb 17, 2013)

People have been deluding themselves for years with this knife thing. 

Because Mihawk a bonified top tier owned East Blue Zoro people have suddenly jumped into this era of delusion that any weapon can work.  Completely ignoring that Mihawk was better than Zoro in every way possible.

In this match he's fighting a person just as strong with better haki, great reflexes and COO as well. I could understand if people were arguing if Zoro had only one sword but Zoro stopping Luffy with a knife?


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## Hakan Erkan (Feb 17, 2013)

Zolo dupes,Zolo dupes everywhere.


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## Urouge (Feb 17, 2013)

> Tashigi's slash >= Luffy's bloodlusted Hardened punch. It's right there in Oda's writing.



this right here is pathetic

the zoro wankers are too much these days.


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## Beckman (Feb 17, 2013)

Coruscation said:


> Tashigi's slash >= Luffy's bloodlusted Hardened punch. It's right there in Oda's writing.
> 
> The reason is shitty sloppy writing. The point about G2/Luffy's punches remains nonetheless just like it has done in the past.



Corus... What the hell? =/


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## Harard (Feb 17, 2013)

Corus is still reasonable, he's just completely wrong in this particular subject.


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## Skream (Feb 17, 2013)

How would a gearless luffy who cant stretch beat knife zoro? he'll just cut him up this is a stupid thread.
zoro low diff


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## Urouge (Feb 17, 2013)

shut up skream you pathetic troll.


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## Coruscation (Feb 17, 2013)

I notice that the anti-Tashigi brigade jumped in without reading. Look at the argument (the whole argument) not the conclusion. _Oda wrote it this way_. All I'm doing is describing it.


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## zorokuma (Feb 17, 2013)

Canute87 said:


> People have been deluding themselves for years with this knife thing.
> 
> Because Mihawk a bonified top tier owned East Blue Zoro people have suddenly jumped into this era of delusion that any weapon can work.  Completely ignoring that Mihawk was better than Zoro in every way possible.
> 
> In this match he's fighting a person just as strong with better haki, great reflexes and COO as well. I could understand if people were arguing if Zoro had only one sword but Zoro stopping Luffy with a knife?



if your saying luffy is just as fast as zoro and has just as good reflexes as zoro in base, then g2 luffy should be stomping zoro.

this is NOT the case.

this is luffy with no df. all his stats drop significantly.  zoro has a knife, only his attack power drops. how the hell is zoro losing??? do you guys hate zoro so much that you a blind to this? luffy will get owned here.


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## Sayonara (Feb 17, 2013)

A lot of you need to look past your Luffy/Zoro problems and realize this isnt a fair fight and thus outcome doesnt mean anything with how Luffy relates to Zoro.

Zoro and Luffy loose ridiculous amount of attack power , they are going to be trading blows for long time. Luffy should land more punches but cuts are going to draw more blood and stab always poses risk of being lethal. Most of you would jump on that as if I am implying that swordsman/weapon users are some how superior but that isnt the case only that if they were your opponent your intentions are not to get hit in the first place. I expect Zoro could trade blows with g2 Luffy but even if you didnt want to believe that , you cant deny that he can tag base Luffy and knife or sword reflex/attack speed is unchanged.


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## Shinthia (Feb 17, 2013)

Sayonara said:


> A lot of you need to look past your Luffy/Zoro problems and realize this isnt a fair fight and thus outcome doesnt mean anything with how Luffy relates to Zoro.
> 
> Zoro and Luffy loose ridiculous amount of attack power , they are going to be trading blows for long time. Luffy should land more punches but cuts are going to draw more blood and *stab always poses risk of being lethal*. Most of you would jump on that as if I am implying that swordsman/weapon users are some how superior but that isnt the case only that if they were your opponent your intentions are not to get hit in the first place. I expect Zoro could trade blows with g2 Luffy but even if you didnt want to believe that , you cant deny that he can tag base Luffy and knife or sword reflex/attack speed is unchanged.



Punch at the BALLs is always lethal .dont believe me ? Try that at home and let me know who that worked out for u


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## zorokuma (Feb 17, 2013)

Lionel Messi said:


> Punch at the BALLs is always lethal .dont believe me ? Try that at home and let me know who that worked out for u



stab at the balls is instant death though


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## Shinthia (Feb 17, 2013)

zorokuma said:


> stab at the *balls* is instant death though



Not normal balls ,black balls (CoA)


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## Typhon (Feb 17, 2013)

zorokuma said:


> if your saying luffy is just as fast as zoro and has just as good reflexes as zoro in base, then g2 luffy should be stomping zoro.
> 
> this is NOT the case.
> 
> this is luffy with no df. all his stats drop significantly.  zoro has a knife, only his attack power drops. how the hell is zoro losing??? do you guys hate zoro so much that you a blind to this? luffy will get owned here.



1.) Gears put Luffy well past Zoro in the first place. Luffy was already equal to him before he even got gears. Don't think thats suddenly gonna change just because Zoro gets some nicer grade swords. 

2.) None of Luffy's stats drop significantly. He just loses what made him stronger then Zoro to begin with. Plus the dude used hardened techniques that match the strength of gear 2 attacks anyway so he can still cave Zoro's face in. 

3.) I already addressed why people being faster doesn't give them an advantage like you think they do.

Luffy wins high diff.


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## Shingy (Feb 17, 2013)

Coruscation said:


> I notice that the anti-Tashigi brigade jumped in without reading. Look at the argument (the whole argument) not the conclusion. _Oda wrote it this way_. All I'm doing is describing it.



There is no brigade.

You're exaggerating a certain feat. Zoro did all the damage, all Tashigi had to do was touch it, and let her fall down.

Oda didn't write it that way. You're ranting in the wrong place.

Luffy shit stomps.


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## Lycka (Feb 17, 2013)

Omnation said:


> 1.) *Gears put Luffy well past Zoro* in the first place. Luffy was already equal to him before he even got gears. *Don't think thats suddenly gonna change just because Zoro gets some nicer grade swords.
> *
> 2.) *None of Luffy's stats drop significantly.* He just loses what made him stronger then Zoro to begin with. Plus *the dude used hardened techniques that match the strength of gear 2 attacks* anyway so *he can still cave Zoro's face in*.
> 
> ...



so much ignorance and wank. (bolded it for you)


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## Lycka (Feb 17, 2013)

Shingy said:


> There is no brigade.
> 
> You're exaggerating a certain feat. *Zoro did all the damage*, *all Tashigi had to do was touch it, and let her fall down*.
> 
> ...



bolded is just plain wrong zoro didn't even *DO *any damage to Monet he simply scared her, idiot.

no-one is getting 'this so called shit stomp'


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## Typhon (Feb 17, 2013)

OPtiers said:


> so much ignorance and wank. (bolded it for you)



Enies Lobby onward would like to disagree with you.

Ignorance are the people who think the only reason Luffy can even contend with the likes of Zoro are because of gears. 

Wanking are the people who think Zoro is dead equal to Luffy and the people who think he is physically stronger then Luffy. (Aka You)


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## Shingy (Feb 17, 2013)

OPtiers said:


> bolded is just plain wrong zoro didn't even *DO *any damage to Monet he simply scared her, idiot.
> 
> no-one is getting 'this so called shit stomp'



It was a metaphor, so I guess you're the idiot.

Luffy shitstomps.


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## Lycka (Feb 17, 2013)

what you said clearly wasn't a metaphor, you're using that word terribly wrong. (nice comeback btw) 

being scared doesn't somehow magically decrease a person's durability. tagashi put Monet down in 2 slashes. luffy can't put Monet down with just 1 punch of a jet pistol's caliber.


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## Lycka (Feb 17, 2013)

Omnation said:


> Enies Lobby onward would like to disagree with you.
> 
> Ignorance are the people who think the only reason Luffy can even contend with the likes of Zoro are because of gears.
> 
> Wanking are the people who think Zoro is dead equal to Luffy and the people who think he is physically stronger then Luffy. (Aka You)





Shingy said:


> Luffy shitstomps.



>implying that's not wanking. 




Good Job.


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## Shingy (Feb 17, 2013)

OPtiers said:


> what you said clearly wasn't a metaphor, you're using that word terribly wrong. (nice comeback btw)
> 
> being scared doesn't somehow magically decrease a person's durability. tagashi put Monet down in 2 slashes. luffy can't put Monet down with just 1 punch of a jet pistol's caliber.



Tashigi stabbed her, she didn't push her, and Zoro sliced her in half without using haki, he didn't do any damage. Clearly, my message was symbolic, as touching someone and said person falling down.

You're still an idiot.


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## Sayonara (Feb 17, 2013)

Shingy said:


> Luffy shitstomps.



This is probably the worse thing I've read in this thread, dunno if you wanking Luffy or hating on Zoro but you've got some seriously messed up power scaling going on.


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## Urouge (Feb 17, 2013)

zorokuma said:


> *if your saying luffy is just as fast as zoro and has just as good reflexes as zoro in base*, then g2 luffy should be stomping zoro.
> 
> this is NOT the case.
> 
> this is luffy with no df. all his stats drop significantly.  zoro has a knife, only his attack power drops. how the hell is zoro losing??? do you guys hate zoro so much that you a blind to this? luffy will get owned here.



yup they're equal in base in term of stats except strenght. luffy has much better strengh feat. luffy was stronger than zoro even before he got the gears. luffy physical stats improved as much as zoro so I dont see why base luffy should be weaker. zoro make it up with his 3 swords style and still it's not enough.

luffy also showed that much better coo and coa feats than zoro so yeah his hits will really hurt him bad. he will lose his range and speed but he should still  win because he doesnt lose any strength.


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## TrainerRed (Feb 17, 2013)

Canute87 said:


> People have been deluding themselves for years with this knife thing.
> 
> Because Mihawk a bonified top tier owned East Blue Zoro people have suddenly jumped into this era of delusion that any weapon can work.  Completely ignoring that Mihawk was better than Zoro in every way possible.
> 
> In this match he's fighting a person just as strong with better haki, great reflexes and COO as well. I could understand if people were arguing if Zoro had only one sword but Zoro stopping Luffy with a knife?



^THAT

Now close this shit.


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## Urouge (Feb 17, 2013)

Omnation said:


> Enies Lobby onward would like to disagree with you.
> 
> *Ignorance are the people who think the only reason Luffy can even contend with the likes of Zoro are because of gears. *
> 
> Wanking are the people who think Zoro is dead equal to Luffy and the people who think he is physically stronger then Luffy. (Aka You)



yeah I'm constantly surprised by that. why would zoro suddenly stats suddenly get better than base luffy's stats? luffy improved aswell wtf


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## Sayonara (Feb 17, 2013)

Urouge said:


> yup they're equal in base in term of stats except strenght. luffy has much better strengh feat. luffy was stronger than zoro even before he got the gears. luffy physical stats improved as much as zoro so I dont see why base luffy should be weaker. zoro make it up with his 3 swords style and still it's not enough.
> 
> luffy also showed that much better coo and coa feats than zoro so yeah his hits will really hurt him bad. he will lose his range and speed but he should still  win because he doesnt lose any strength.



He loses his entire attack style. He will be throwing left and right hooks and normal kicks and not even at superspeeds thanks to lack of G2.  Luffys fighting style and everysingle fight/situation hes been in since a child is all based around his fruit , you think you take that all away and he some how loses no strength ?

Throwing singular punches at his base speeds , doesnt even come close to the damage g2 or even regular gattling gun would do.


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## Urouge (Feb 17, 2013)

huh you seem to forget that zoro loses his fighting style aswell. a knife is not enough for him to beat someone with better haki and strength.


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## Sayonara (Feb 17, 2013)

Urouge said:


> huh you seem to forget that zoro loses his fighting style aswell. a knife is not enough for him to beat someone with better haki and strength.



I haven't forgot anything , I've clearly mentioned that fact in every other post I've made in this thread.  I was just correcting your idea that losing his fruit does not effect his strength. If you were talking about lifting weights than it should be the same but attack strength(the one that matters in this fight) with Luffy is significantly boosted by the stretch and the g2 doping.


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## Urouge (Feb 17, 2013)

nope by feats luffy is physically stronger. he lifted a hill right after MF while he was still seriously injured. that feat beats any of zoro strengh feats easily. add hardening COA to that strength and you have something deadly while zoro relies on his swords much much more.


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## Lycka (Feb 17, 2013)

luffys haki couldn't even protect him from hodys bite. zoro with a sword would still fodderize Hody.

Urouge, you claiming luffy has better haki, dosent even come close to putting this battle in his favor. 


As of observation haki, so far sanji has the best feats and is the most proficient of it out of everyone on punk hazard. 
1. sanji was able to Dodge (he ducked) a kick without even looking at it from vergo.
2. his whole body finding and sensing of vergos initial presence.


I'm inclined to believe luffy isn't the most proficient haki user oout of the strawhats.


that aside, with luffy's haki being weak (not even mentionable) between a fight of someone his caliber , how do you expect luffy to put down zoro without his fruit? 


shi shi son son.


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## Sayonara (Feb 17, 2013)

Urouge said:


> nope by feats luffy is physically stronger. he lifted a hill right after MF while he was still seriously injured. that feat beats any of zoro strengh feats easily. add hardening COA to that strength and you have something deadly while zoro relies on his swords much much more.




No I  actually agree with you and believe Luffy is physically stronger than Zoro , thats got nothing to do with what I am saying though. Without his DF Luffy loses a lot of his attack power not just range and speed like you stated.

Also deadly? Really? Luffy was has been hitting people with CoA G2 combos of all sorts Post TS and they've not been instantly KO'd. You can expect this to be the normal thing from now on with all future opponents.  By removing attack style and g2 the punches are clearly going to be weaker and thus Luffy is going to have to hit Zoro a lot more times than normal which is easier said than done because Zoro doesn't lose any of attack/reaction speed while Luffy clearly does. Zoro loses a fuck load of attack power like luffy but he still has a weapon that can still actually be 'deadly' and we know Zoro can reinforce his weapons with CoA.


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## Shingy (Feb 17, 2013)

Luffy. Was. A. Physical. Brawler. From. The. Day. He. Learned. How. To Walk.

Luffy loses his fruit. He loses his stretchability and his doping. Take Bellamy for example. He was one shotted without Luffy having to use his fruit. Taking the rubber away does not take all of his strength away. It will subtract some amounts, and some techniques, but ultimately, the root of his power is solely from his techniques, base stats, and haki.

Zoro loses all of his swords, and they're replaced by a knife. That shit will not go down with Luffy.

Luffy shit stomps.


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## Urouge (Feb 17, 2013)

OPtiers said:


> luffys haki couldn't even protect him from hodys bite. zoro with a sword would still fodderize Hody.
> 
> Urouge, you claiming luffy has better haki, dosent even come close to putting this battle in his favor.
> 
> ...



what is shi shi son son with a knife going to do to luffy? it's gonna tickle him. zoro loses way more firepower without his 3 swords. he wont even be able to use ranged attacks. about the haki shit I hope that you're joking? luffy was able to locate where the yeti cool bro's were from far away. he was also the only one out of the M3 to use hardening. zoro will lose range and power just like luffy. I belive that base luffy is stronger than base zoro so I see him wining this.



Sayonara said:


> No I  actually agree with you and believe Luffy is physically stronger than Zoro , thats got nothing to do with what I am saying though. Without his DF Luffy loses a lot of his attack power not just range and speed like you stated.
> 
> Also deadly? Really? Luffy was has been hitting people with CoA G2 combos of all sorts Post TS and they've not been instantly KO'd. You can expect this to be the normal thing from now on with all future opponents.  By removing attack style and g2 the punches are clearly going to be weaker and thus Luffy is going to have to hit Zoro a lot more times than normal which is easier said than done because Zoro doesn't lose any of attack/reaction speed while Luffy clearly does.



huh zoro loses all of his attack power not luffy. luffy still has hardening unlike zoro. he also has better Coo which means that he will dodge most of zoro's attacks. what you dont seem to understand is that zoro lose as much power as luffy with the loss of his swords. it comes down to who's stronger in base and I believe that it's luffy.


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## Urouge (Feb 17, 2013)

Shingy said:


> Luffy. Was. A. Physical. Brawler. From. The. Day. He. Learned. How. To Walk.
> 
> Luffy loses his fruit. He loses his stretchability and his doping. Take Bellamy for example. He was one shotted without Luffy having to use his fruit. Taking the rubber away does not take all of his strength away. It will subtract some amounts, and some techniques, but ultimately, the root of his power is solely from his techniques, base stats, and haki.
> 
> ...



exactly they only focus on luffy losing his DF. they're forgetting that zoro is losing his swords aswell. he loses range and DC.

Edit: I'm done I said my piece and I see that you guys won't agree so good night.


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## Lycka (Feb 17, 2013)

Urouge said:


> what is shi shi son son with a knife going to do to luffy? it's gonna tickle him. zoro loses way more firepower without his 3 swords. he wont even be able to use ranged attacks. about the haki shit I hope that you're joking? luffy was able to locate where the yeti cool bro's were from far away. he was also the only one out of the M3 to use hardening. zoro will lose range and power just like luffy. I belive that base luffy is stronger than base zoro so I see him wining this.
> 
> 
> 
> huh zoro loses all of his attack power not luffy. luffy still has hardening unlike zoro. he also has better Coo.




the other M3 members haven't even used haki, baseless claim to say they don't have hardneing and its not like hardened haki> non visible haki

moot point.


shi shi son son just tickle him?

your fucking stupid, Urouge.




edit: what time is it where you live? if there are open hospitals, please go to the nearest one.


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## Sayonara (Feb 17, 2013)

Shingy said:


> Luffy. Was. A. Physical. Brawler. From. The. Day. He. Learned. How. To Walk.
> 
> Luffy loses his fruit. He loses his stretchability and his doping. Take Bellamy for example. He was one shotted without Luffy having to use his fruit. Taking the rubber away does not take all of his strength away. It will subtract some amounts, and some techniques, but ultimately, the root of his power is solely from his techniques, base stats, and haki.
> 
> ...





Of course it doesnt take all his strength away Luffy is still superhuman. But that 'strength' is not enough, we know this because we see that strength+shit load more regularly against other enemies and its still struggle. The amount of hits Luffy is going to have to hit Zoro with his huge. You can believe Ceaser has better reactions and durability than Zoro all you want , but when all Luffys future opponents dont get shit stomped by regular CoA punches perhaps you will begin to understand that. Keep in mind these showing were against a stronger+faster Luffy  than in this scenario.

Also as for technique being root power, I'd agree but clearly were both haven't been reading the same manga because being rubberman is second nature to Luffy and thats what hes built a large amount of his technique around. 

I dont even have issues with people having to side with Luffy on this fight, but shit stomp. Zoros endurance/durability is at level where Luffy would have to use stronger specialized attacks like he has against every opponent bar bellamy in the manga, your reasoning that now a weaker version of that Luffy shit stomps is laughable.


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## Sanji (Feb 17, 2013)

OPtiers said:


> the other M3 members haven't even used haki, baseless claim to say they don't have hardneing and its not like hardened haki> non visible haki
> 
> moot point.
> 
> ...



He was exaggerating. 

And he's right, Luffy has far more significant strength feats including the Post MF Hill feat, the Water 7 Building Feat, yadayadayada.


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## Lycka (Feb 17, 2013)

if he really was, sorry about that.


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## Meruem (Feb 17, 2013)

Goova said:


> show me some post skip zoro speed feats
> 
> oh wait he has none



Except blitzing a fishman under water.


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## Typhon (Feb 17, 2013)

OPtiers said:


> >implying that's not wanking.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's not. It's just stating the obvious. (I don't agree with the shit stomping of course though)


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## Lycka (Feb 17, 2013)

Omnation said:


> It's not.



Bahahahaha


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## Typhon (Feb 17, 2013)

OPtiers said:


> Bahahahaha



Then please enlighten me of the panel where it was clearly shown Zoro is equal to Luffy post gears.


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## tupadre97 (Feb 17, 2013)

Luffy can't even fight without his df so yea Zoro wins.


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