# Part 1 Neji VS. Part 1 Gaara



## Undead (Dec 15, 2014)

Location: Chuunin exams preliminaries
Distance: 25 meters.
Restrictions: None.
Knowledge: Manga.
Notes: Gaara is placed against Neji instead of Lee in the chuunin exams preliminaries.  How would this go?​


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## Ghost (Dec 15, 2014)

Neji doesn't have the strength or speed to get through Gaara's sand. He loses.


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## Undead (Dec 15, 2014)

Saikyou said:


> Neji doesn't have the strength or speed to get through Gaara's sand. He loses.


Who among the rookies do you think has a good chance against Gaara besides Lee, Sasuke, and Naruto?


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## Ghost (Dec 15, 2014)

Rest of the rookies get crushed hopelessly.


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## Altair21 (Dec 15, 2014)

Neji gets stomped worse than Sasuke did. He's strictly close combat and he's never getting past Gaara's sand as he doesn't have speed anywhere near Lee or Sasuke's, so his chances at striking Gaara's chakra points are never going to happen.


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## tkpirate (Dec 15, 2014)

yeah,Gaara will win.Neji dosen't have enough speed to do anything against Gaara.


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## UchihaX28 (Dec 15, 2014)

Honestly, no idea. He was blitzing Naruto quite a bit and we all know Naruto doesn't have the speed to even keep up with Gaara like Lee and Sasuke does.

 With Byakugan and the fact that Neji can defeat Lee, I would say Neji can do fairly well, but he has nothing to get through Gaara's Shukaku defense. If Gaara does use Shukaku, Neji is phucked.


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## DavyChan (Dec 15, 2014)

tbh, all this thread does is show how ridiculous Lee was when he did what he did. When Lee fought gaara he showed speed that would be considered top speed even in the current chapters. But also it shows that Lee is stronger than neji too. Considering i cant see any way that neji could win.


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## RedChidori (Dec 15, 2014)

Altair21 said:


> Neji gets stomped worse than Sasuke did. He's strictly close combat and he's never getting past Gaara's sand as he doesn't have speed anywhere near Lee or Sasuke's, so his chances at striking Gaara's chakra points are never going to happen.



This. Lee and Sasuke only landed hits on Gaara due to speed and powerful strikes/jutsu. Neji at this point doesn't gave anything that can penetrate through Gaara's sand besides maybe his palm strikes. But, it's strictly close quarters and that isn't enough to help him here. Sand Coffin GG.


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## Ghost (Dec 15, 2014)

dpwater25 said:


> When Lee fought gaara he showed speed that would be considered top speed even in the current chapters.



lol what the fuck no


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## Ennoia (Dec 15, 2014)

NarutoX28 said:


> Honestly, no idea. He was blitzing Naruto quite a bit and we all know Naruto doesn't have the speed to even keep up with Gaara like Lee and Sasuke does.
> 
> With Byakugan and the fact that Neji can defeat Lee, I would say Neji can do fairly well, but he has nothing to get through Gaara's Shukaku defense. If Gaara does use Shukaku, Neji is phucked.



Gaara caught and restrained Kyuubi cloak Naruto no diff with his sand while Neji and Sharingan Sasuke could barely follow cloaked Naruto's movements. Neji stands no chance.


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## Ghost (Dec 15, 2014)

Ennoia said:


> Gaara caught and restrained Kyuubi cloak Naruto no diff with his sand while Neji and Sharingan Sasuke could barely follow cloaked Naruto's movements. Neji stands no chance.



Naruto leaped through the air. How the fuck could he have dodged the sand? 

Also KN0 Naruto at the VotE was way stronger.


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## Ennoia (Dec 15, 2014)

Saikyou said:


> Naruto leaped through the air. How the fuck could he have dodged the sand?
> 
> Also KN0 Naruto at the VotE was way stronger.



Naruto's feet are on the ground, if you actually look at his feet you can see that he's standing on a small lump of sand. Naruto ran at him, he did not jump. Either way that was not my point. My point was that Gaara is capable of keeping up with Naruto's speed when the other two were not, when Naruto jumped in front of Neji, Neji lost him for a moment. There is absolutely no difference in the chakra Naruto used in my two links so if you want to say there is a big difference you have to prove it.


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## Bonly (Dec 15, 2014)

During Neji's match with Hinata Gaara seemed to be shaking(last panel) with a worried look on his face and it was hinted that Neji still had more he could do which means he might have had rotation and/or 64 palms back then. Gaara's sand armor should also go down when it meets the gentle fist so the question is, is Neji fast enough to get around Gaara's sand auto defense like Lee and Sasuke(finals) was to land some hits. If so then Neji would come out on top but if not then he'd lose though I'd side with Neji here


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## Ennoia (Dec 15, 2014)

Bonly said:


> During Neji's match with Hinata Gaara seemed to be shaking(last panel) with a worried look on his face and it was hinted that Neji still had more he could do which means he might have had rotation and/or 64 palms back then.


He was not worried he was excited (I like how you skipped this page), much like when Sasuke was about to fight Haku and Zabuza called him out.



> Gaara's sand armor should also go down when it meets the gentle fist so the question is, is Neji fast enough to get around Gaara's sand auto defense like Lee and Sasuke(finals) was to land some hits. If so then Neji would come out on top but if not then he'd lose though I'd side with Neji here


I agree with this but not the outcome.


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## Bonly (Dec 15, 2014)

Ennoia said:


> He was not worried he was excited (I like how you skipped this page), much like when Sasuke was about to fight Haku and Zabuza called him out.



When Gaara was shaking with that worried look that I posted, that was in chapter 80 when the fight was still going. What you posted happened in chapter 81 after the fight was over when actual blood was out to excite him so while he may have been excited in chapter 81, that doesn't mean he was in 80 when he was shaking with that worried look on his face.




> I agree with this but not the outcome.



Then we shall agree to disagree.


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## Patrick (Dec 15, 2014)

I'd say Neji stands a decent chance against Gaara in his base form but he would get fucked by partially transformed Gaara.


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## Ennoia (Dec 15, 2014)

Bonly said:


> When Gaara was shaking with that worried look that I posted, that was in chapter 80 when the fight was still going. What you posted happened in chapter 81 after the fight was over when actual blood was out to excite him so while he may have been excited in chapter 81, that doesn't mean he was in 80 when he was shaking with that worried look on his face.


Kankuro stated that he was excited at the sight of blood, Hinata was bleeding in chapter 79 at the end and 80 at the beginning. Gaara was seen shaking immediately after Hinata coughed up blood in chapter 80 making it consistent with Kankuro's statement.


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## Puppetry (Dec 15, 2014)

I'm surprised by quite a few of the responses here. Weighted Lee was only outmaneuvered by Gaara _once_, during the initial strike, where he:


Knew nothing of Gaara's jutsu.
Was attacked from behind, a blindspot.

Neji is neither slower than weighted Lee or less skilled in taijutsu. Thanks to his Byakugan, he won't be duped any substitutions or cheap blows like Lee was, either.

I think this comes down to how Jūken interacts with Gaara's sand. If it has more success than Lee's conventional kicks and punches, then Neji wins. If not, Gaara does, as Neji at this point in time had no further tricks up his sleeves.

I am of the opinion that it will, as Jūken is effective against chakra-imbued objects.


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## Ennoia (Dec 15, 2014)

Puppetry said:


> I'm surprised by quite a few of the responses here. Weighted Lee was only outmaneuvered by Gaara _once_, during the initial strike, where he:
> 
> 
> Knew nothing of Gaara's jutsu.
> ...



Going to need proof that Neji is not slower than weighted Lee and proof that he is not less skilled in taijutsu. In fact, the databook says Lee is better in taijutsu and speed. Lee was almost caught by Gaara's sand and barely escaped. Given this alone Neji would be on the defensive. He would be constantly expelling chakra trying not to get caught than to worry about attacking.


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## Bonly (Dec 15, 2014)

Ennoia said:


> Gaara was seen shaking immediately after Hinata coughed up blood in chapter 80 making it consistent with Kankuro's statement.



The problem is that it doesn't make it consistent with Kankuro's statement. Where was Gaara's excitement when blood was out during Sasuke's match? Where was Gaara's excitement when Zaku had blood on out during his match? Where was Gaara's excitement during Ino+Sakura's match when blood came out, ect.? Whenever there was small amounts of blood Gaara never showed any excitement which isn't consistent with Kankuro's statement that blood(period) excites Gaara yet when there was a decent amount more of blood then Gaara started to get excited. With the pattern Gaara has shown, it doesn't hints to him being excited when he put on that worried looked in chapter 80.


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## Puppetry (Dec 15, 2014)

Ennoia said:


> Going to need proof that Neji is not slower than weighted Lee and proof that he is not less skilled in taijutsu. In fact, the databook says Lee is better in taijutsu and speed. Lee was almost caught by Gaara's sand and barely escaped. Given this alone Neji would be on the defensive. He would be constantly expelling chakra trying not to get caught than to worry about attacking.



Lee and Neji both have a 3.5 in taijutsu. As for speed, Lee's speed stat should refer to his speed unihibited by weights, as that is his natural speed. I don't think it's presumptuous to assume they're comparable, given   Gai stated _Ura Renge_ was the _key_ to beating Neji.

I see a somewhat tattered Lee escaping. I wouldn't say he was almost caught or had any difficulty eluding the sand. Besides, this was after Lee's ineffective bout with Gaara. Neji is better equipped.


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## wooly Eullerex (Dec 15, 2014)

Neji wins against either of the exam versions of gaara.

this, imo, based on his speed & taijutsu prowess being a severe hindrance to gaaras tacticsas well as kaiten being superior to chidori in terms of dealing with ''calling time out'' to ccalm & gather himself in his sand egg


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## UchihaX28 (Dec 15, 2014)

Ennoia said:


> Gaara caught and restrained Kyuubi cloak Naruto no diff with his sand while Neji and Sharingan Sasuke could barely follow cloaked Naruto's movements. Neji stands no chance.



 Gaara was still under control by the Shukaku.

 But still, that doesn't ignore the fact that Neji blitzes Naruto's shadow clones like its nothing. Not even Sasuke can do that. 

 Sasuke

 And no, Neji wasn't just "barely" reading his movements. He was reading his movements well enough to be able to clash with him in CQC and Naruto knew that. So from that scan alone tells us that Neji's reactions and potentially speed is on par with KN0 Naruto, which definitely implies Neji is really quick and can easily react to Gaara's sand. 

 And the fact that you're suddenly suggesting the fact that KN0 Naruto getting caught by Gaara's sand suddenly indicates that Gaara = KN0 Naruto >> Sasuke is laughable considering Sasuke was blitzing Gaara. So suddenly, we find that this is clearly an inconsistency, Shukaku was still fueling Gaara with power, or something I'd prefer, is that Naruto didn't even have enough control to muster up enough chakra from Kurama considering he did so just to summon Gamabunta (spelling?). That could explain why KN0 Naruto was a lot weaker than he should've been and actually makes sense considering KN0 Naruto received only a major power boost against the likes of Haku and Sasuke when he didn't have control over Neji where he did, but didn't receive a massive boost in terms of power and durability.


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## Ennoia (Dec 16, 2014)

Bonly said:


> The problem is that it doesn't make it consistent with Kankuro's statement. Where was Gaara's excitement when blood was out during Sasuke's match? Where was Gaara's excitement when Zaku had blood on out during his match? Where was Gaara's excitement during Ino+Sakura's match when blood came out, ect.? Whenever there was small amounts of blood Gaara never showed any excitement which isn't consistent with Kankuro's statement that blood(period) excites Gaara yet when there was a decent amount more of blood then Gaara started to get excited. With the pattern Gaara has shown, it doesn't hints to him being excited when he put on that worried looked in chapter 80.


decent amount more
During this Chunin exam he's been slowing losing control.

You're also reaching really hard with those links, every singe instance you have shown has had the most minuscule amount of blood which is essentially irrelevant compared to the pools of blood on the ground after Hinata's fight. There was so much blood Naruto could drip it off of his fingers.



Puppetry said:


> Lee and Neji both have a 3.5 in taijutsu. As for speed, Lee's speed stat should refer to his speed unihibited by weights, as that is his natural speed. I don't think it's presumptuous to assume they're comparable, given   Gai stated _Ura Renge_ was the _key_ to beating Neji.
> 
> I see a somewhat tattered Lee escaping. I wouldn't say he was almost caught or had any difficulty eluding the sand. Besides, this was after Lee's ineffective bout with Gaara. Neji is better equipped.



My bad with the taijutsu thing, but your interpretation of what Guy said is just that, an interpretation. Neji being Lee speed without weights would be inconsistent with the manga because he could not keep up with Naruto and Naruto was stopped by Gaara, who couldnt keep up with Lee. So its not possible Neji=Lee going by feats either. Neji's reactions are constantly hyped, not his speed, which is likely why he can beat Lee.

Also, Lee had been resting the entire time and had only begun his attack, being "tattered" is hardly a card that can be played here. And my point was to show that Gaara almost caught Lee, which he did. So it dosent make sense to say that Neji would not be placed on the defensive due to these factors.



NarutoX28 said:


> Gaara was still under control by the Shukaku.


Bunta stated that he was not and Gaara was clearly awake.



> But still, that doesn't ignore the fact that Neji blitzes Naruto's shadow clones like its nothing. Not even Sasuke can do that.
> 
> _key_
> 
> And no, Neji wasn't just "barely" reading his movements. He was reading his movements well enough to be able to clash with him in CQC and Naruto knew that. So from that scan alone tells us that Neji's reactions and potentially speed is on par with KN0 Naruto, which definitely implies Neji is really quick and can easily react to Gaara's sand.


These are showings of reactions not speed. The manga makes it clear that Neji lost sight of Naruto two times and when Naruto ran at him he said "oh no." The manga makes the speed difference clear, what Neji has is reactions.



> And the fact that you're suddenly suggesting the fact that KN0 Naruto getting caught by Gaara's sand suddenly indicates that Gaara = KN0 Naruto >> Sasuke is laughable considering Sasuke was blitzing Gaara. So suddenly, we find that this is clearly an inconsistency, Shukaku was still fueling Gaara with power, or something I'd prefer, is that Naruto didn't even have enough control to muster up enough chakra from Kurama considering he did so just to summon Gamabunta (spelling?). That could explain why KN0 Naruto was a lot weaker than he should've been and actually makes sense considering KN0 Naruto received only a major power boost against the likes of Haku and Sasuke when he didn't have control over Neji where he did, but didn't receive a massive boost in terms of power and durability.


No it is not inconsistent, the only logical outcome is that Gaara was caught off guard. Now before you start freaking out let me explain. Guy stated that Sasuke's initial speed was on par with weighted Lee and had the exact same taijutsu yet he was landing hits on Gaara, something weighted Lee was not capable of doing. The inconsistency is at this point. As I said before the cloaks are the same so it dosent make sense that the speed would be different.


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## Bonly (Dec 16, 2014)

Ennoia said:


> Sasuke's initial speed
> During this Chunin exam he's been slowing losing control.



But was he constantly showing excitement throughout exam?



> You're also reaching really hard with those links, every singe instance you have shown has had the most minuscule amount of blood which is essentially irrelevant compared to the pools of blood on the ground after Hinata's fight. There was so much blood Naruto could drip it off of his fingers.



I'm not reaching at all. When Gaara had that worried look (which I linked in chapter 80) you said it was due to the blood due to Kankuro's statement but if you read from the time she spit out blood(end of 79) to when Gaara had the worried look you'll see that there wasn't any pools of blood out like in chapter 81, there's only a small amount of blood that Hinata spit out, just like there was small amounts of blood in the scans I posted and what not. So I should assume that his worried look was due to being excited by blood due to Kankuro's statement like you suggest when there was small amounts of blood out and as we've seen throughout the exam Gaara hasn't shown to be excited through the small amounts of blood? Yeah not seeing it so I'll just agree to disagree as this doesn't seem like this is gonna go anywhere


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## Puppetry (Dec 16, 2014)

Gai cites speed as the tool needed to lend Lee a decisive victory against Neji. I don't see any remotely plausible alternatives, and this is consistent with Neji's noted superiority over his comrade.

Neji trounced base Naruto and kept up with Kyūbi Naruto as well, so I don't know what you mean by that. They attacked, clashed, and landed in simultaneously. Neji was both physically quick enough to keep pace with Naruto's movements and reflexive enough to respond to attacks. However, I do not expect Neji to zip around Gaara like Lee did; I believe his speed means he would evade the sand effortlessly and use Jūken wherever pure movements failed - much like he did against Naruto.

Additionally, Naruto only ever faced Shukaku-Gaara which was shown to significantly bolster Gaara's power. I've seen your scans that Shukaku was stirred during the Preliminaries, but that wouldn't have released the immense chakra of a near perfect transformation.

The scan you provided shows Lee panting and sweating; which either indicates Lee's stamina is depressingly low or he hadn't fully recovered from his bout with the Oto shinobi. Yes, he did have a brief respite, but clearly it wasn't enough. 

'Barely,' 'almost...' Gaara's attacks didn't connect multiple times. Lee wasn't having the difficulty you purported, but if he does, what does it matter? It wasn't producing tangible results.


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## Ennoia (Dec 16, 2014)

Bonly said:


> But was he constantly showing excitement throughout exam?


Kankuro stated that it was growing throughout the exam.





> I'm not reaching at all. When Gaara had that worried look (which I linked in chapter 80) you said it was due to the blood due to Kankuro's statement but if you read from the time she spit out blood(end of 79) to when Gaara had the worried look you'll see that there wasn't any pools of blood out like in chapter 81, there's only a small amount of blood that Hinata spit out, just like there was small amounts of blood in the scans I posted and what not. So I should assume that his worried look was due to being excited by blood due to Kankuro's statement like you suggest when there was small amounts of blood out and as we've seen throughout the exam Gaara hasn't shown to be excited through the small amounts of blood? Yeah not seeing it so I'll just agree to disagree as this doesn't seem like this is gonna go anywhere


I cant even take this seriously. We clearly see emphasis placed on the blood on the ground and on the very next page Gaara is shaking, when we see Gaara shaking again only a few pages later Kankuro states that he's excited, and Kankuro again states that it has only been getting worse since the start of that exam, but you want to tell me Gaara is worred about Neji? You cant be serious. Because Gaara has not been shown shaking every time blood is involved  (despite the manga outright telling us it was building up) Gaara is worried? Gaara has not been shown to be afraid of anyone in this manga but you're telling me Neji got him worried despite the manga stating that he was becoming increasingly excited throughout the exam from the sight of blood and Hinata coughing up blood on the ground infront of everyone. I'm not playing this game.


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## Bonly (Dec 16, 2014)

> but you want to tell me Gaara is worred about Neji? You cant be serious. Gaara has not been shown to be afraid of anyone in this manga but you're telling me Neji got him worried despite the manga stating that he was becoming increasingly excited throughout the exam from the sight of blood and Hinata coughing up blood on the ground infront of everyone. I'm not playing this game.



Then don't play this game, you replied to me first not the other way around, you're feel to stop replying.  I'm just pointing out a fact. Just as Gaara had a worried look on his face during the prelims when watching Neji's match, Gaara also had the same worried look(more or less) during the finals when he was watching Neji's match when there was no pools of blood or anything and he was able to scratch the bloodlust itch(so to speak) when he killed Dosu. You can chop it up to him being excited if you want but with the pattern Gaara showed when it came to low amounts of blood and the damn near no blood in Neji's finals match, I'm not seeing the worried look being due to blood rather then Neji


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## Undead (Dec 16, 2014)

Are we really going to spend pages arguing whether or not Gaara was scared of somebody?


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## Ennoia (Dec 16, 2014)

Im just trying to figure how someone can interpret the manga so badly.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Dec 16, 2014)

Neji wins. He lands a single hit on Gaara and Gaara is dead. The beauty of Jyuuken is that it bypassess exterior defense. So Gaara's sand shield that blocked all of Lee's hits is a nonfactor here.

Neji low - mid dif.


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## Ghost (Dec 16, 2014)

^ What?

Even if Jyuuken would somehow bypass Suna no Yoroi Neji still lacks the speed and strength to get through gourd sand.

Weightless Lee is faster than Neji.


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## DavyChan (Dec 16, 2014)

Saikyou said:


> lol what the fuck no



Not like in the juubito kaguya part. But yes in the later part of shippuden. lee literally was moving so fast that u couldnt see him. there's hardly any characters that can move that fast if u dont count zipping. he was moving faster than A was.


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## Ghost (Dec 16, 2014)

dpwater25 said:


> Not like in the juubito kaguya part. But yes in the later part of shippuden. lee literally was moving so fast that u couldnt see him. there's hardly any characters that can move that fast if u dont count zipping. he was moving faster than A was.





Any Jonin could blitz Lee and snap his neck before he realizes what has happened.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Dec 16, 2014)

If jyuken can destroy or counter the sand attacks, as it does for other chakra constructs and chakra imbued attacks, then Neji can win, and probably will unless Gaara goes shukaku mode.  But if it's an unsuitable offence and defence, he gets crushed.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Dec 16, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Neji wins. He lands a single hit on Gaara and Gaara is dead. The beauty of Jyuuken is that it bypassess exterior defense. So Gaara's sand shield that blocked all of Lee's hits is a nonfactor here.
> 
> Neji low - mid dif.



Not 100%.  Remember that Kido's gold sweat was able to protect him from jyuuken because his armor was dense with chakra.  His armor was destroyed though.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Dec 16, 2014)

Bonly said:


> Then don't play this game, you replied to me first not the other way around, you're feel to stop replying.  I'm just pointing out a fact. Just as Gaara had a worried look on his face during the prelims when watching Neji's match, Gaara also had the same worried look(more or less) during the finals when he was watching Neji's match when there was no pools of blood or anything and he was able to scratch the bloodlust itch(so to speak) when he killed Dosu. You can chop it up to him being excited if you want but with the pattern Gaara showed when it came to low amounts of blood and the damn near no blood in Neji's finals match, I'm not seeing the worried look being due to blood rather then Neji



Gaara was rustled when Neji proclaimed his ultimate defence was even more ultimate than Gaara's sand.  Dude was not happy about how strong Neji was.


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## Kazekage94 (Dec 16, 2014)

Why are people saying he was shaking at what Neji did?

Lee is a better threat and yet the dude lost. 
Neji got beat by Naruto.

Gaara fucks him up. No difficulty. Neji is not faster than Lee, he isn't evading anything.


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## UchihaX28 (Dec 16, 2014)

Ennoia said:


> Bunta stated that he was not and Gaara was clearly awake.



 I meant to cut that part of the post out, but I forgot. I was skimming through that part of the manga and noticed he was awake, so you're right, but I already countered this part of the argument. It's laughable to even consider Gaara = KN0 Naruto when time and time again, Naruto = Sasuke and KN0 Naruto is always > Sasuke until he received the Cursed Seal power boost along with 3 Tomoe Sharingan. If Neji can keep up with KN0 Naruto, who is faster than Sasuke, who blitzed Gaara, then Neji blitzes Gaara.




> These are showings of reactions not speed. The manga makes it clear that Neji lost sight of Naruto two times and when Naruto ran at him he said "oh no." The manga makes the speed difference clear, what Neji has is reactions.



 No it's not. They jump at each other at the same exact time and move the same amount of distance during their clash. They are pretty much on par in terms of speed. Naruto even knew he couldn't rely on sheer speed or CQC, so he relied on brute force. 

 times

 Here, you can see he tracked his movement perfectly as his eye contact is directed towards Naruto.

 times

 He even reacted perfectly as shown in the next page and managed to grab the shurikens that Naruto threw. Neji reacted perfectly and was on par with his speed.




> No it is not inconsistent, the only logical outcome is that Gaara was caught off guard. Now before you start freaking out let me explain. Guy stated that Sasuke's initial speed was on par with weighted Lee and had the exact same taijutsu yet he was landing hits on Gaara, something weighted Lee was not capable of doing. The inconsistency is at this point. As I said before the cloaks are the same so it dosent make sense that the speed would be different.



 Then basically it contradicts everything that is ever implied. Sasuke blitzed Gaara, KN0 Naruto is always stronger than Sasuke simply b/c Base Naruto is always on par with 2 Tomoe Sasuke. If Neji is on par with KN0 Naruto's speed, then Neji should be able to blitz Gaara. The fact that Naruto didn't blitz Gaara in that incident made absolutely no sense or that would imply KN0 Naruto is slower than Sasuke which judging by his performance against Neji, we can all claim that that is complete bs.

 Sasuke's initial speed

 And no, this makes it clear he's on par with UnWeighted Lee's speed. But still, I agree, it makes no sense that Sasuke was able to blitz Gaara earlier even though Weighted Lee couldn't but UnWeighted Lee could certainly blitz Gaara which Sasuke displayed perfectly.


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## GearsUp (Dec 16, 2014)

Kazekage94 said:


> Why are people saying he was shaking at what Neji did?
> 
> Lee is a better threat and yet the dude lost.
> Neji got beat by Naruto.
> ...



duh no.

gaara loses as neji is a perfect counter to him. though maybe a difficult fight, iah neji probably outspeeds gate 1 lee and gets to gaara then tears straight through his armor and fucks him up. he was never serious in the exams except for the two or so kaiten he used.


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## Veo (Dec 17, 2014)

No one among the rookies could stand a chance against Gaara back then, except Lee. Neji gets stomped.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Dec 17, 2014)

Saikyou said:


> ^ What?
> 
> Even if Jyuuken would somehow bypass Suna no Yoroi Neji still lacks the speed and strength to get through gourd sand.
> 
> Weightless Lee is faster than Neji.



Why would Neji need strength to deal with gourd sand ? 

Lee is faster, but Neji doesn't need to run circles around Gaara like Lee did. He can probably disperse the sand by simply releasing chakra through his body, like he did to Kido's webs, or use kaiten if he really needs it. On the other hand, if he lands a single hit, it'll fuck Gaara up. Lee had trouble because Gaara tanked nearly everything Lee threw @ him.



The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Not 100%.  Remember that Kido's gold sweat was able to protect him from jyuuken because his armor was dense with chakra.  His armor was destroyed though.



I think that material specifically blocked chakra. Thats why Jyuuken couldn't get through.


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## UchihaX28 (Dec 17, 2014)

Veo said:


> No one among the rookies could stand a chance against Gaara back then, except Lee. Neji gets stomped.



 Even though Neji stomps Lee?

 Mmkay.


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## Kazekage94 (Dec 17, 2014)

GearsUp said:


> duh no.
> 
> gaara loses as neji is a perfect counter to him. though maybe a difficult fight, iah neji probably outspeeds gate 1 lee and gets to gaara then tears straight through his armor and fucks him up. he was never serious in the exams except for the two or so kaiten he used.



What are Neji's speed feats?

Oh he has none. He gets crushed. GG


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## UchihaX28 (Dec 17, 2014)

Kazekage94 said:


> What are Neji's speed feats?
> 
> Oh he has none. He gets crushed. GG



 You don't seem to read threads do you? It's been posted before that Neji's speed is on par with KN0 Naruto and the fact that he can blitz Naruto's clones which not even Sasuke can do.


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## Bkprince33 (Dec 18, 2014)

I agree with bonly, there's also the fact that kankuro despite seeing garra murder countless people also called neji a monster.




Neji should be able to use rotation to by bass the sand and end it with a few jukken strikes.





everyone is also forgetting neji's hand speed, it's very fast and would probably by pass the sand defense also


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## Icegaze (Dec 18, 2014)

Neji wins 
1 jukken strike would end it 
Gaara sand in part 1 was especially fast 
Also note jukken ridicules chakra based substances 
Refer to kidomaru webs
Gaara won't be able to crush him 

Neji gets in close and kills him


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## Ghost (Dec 18, 2014)

NarutoX28 said:


> Even though Neji stomps Lee?
> 
> Mmkay.



lolwhat. Lee would've murdered Neji had they fought.


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## StarWanderer (Dec 18, 2014)

Probably Neji.


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## Veo (Dec 18, 2014)

NarutoX28 said:


> Even though Neji stomps Lee?
> 
> Mmkay.



It is about fighting style, and countering your opponent. To beat Gaara back then, one had to have outstanding speed (Lee). Neji was an excellent CQC fighter, but he was not fast enough to get past Gaara's defense. He could put up a fight, I agree, but he'd have no chance of winning.

In the other hand, Lee would beat Neji 1v1. Lee is skilled enough to keep up well with Neji in close quarters and once he opens the Gates, it's game over for the hyuga.


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## GearsUp (Dec 18, 2014)

Kazekage94 said:


> What are Neji's speed feats?
> 
> Oh he has none. He gets crushed. GG



lul. idiot


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## UchihaX28 (Dec 18, 2014)

Saikyou said:


> lolwhat. Lee would've murdered Neji had they fought.



 Despite the fact that it's been stated several times that Neji was superior to Lee and the fact that Lee was astonished that Naruto beat Neji.

 The only way Lee would beat Neji is with Gates and surprisingly, Sasuke with Lee's speed kicked Gaara's ass, so obviously skill has a huge role in it. Lee had powerful moves that affected the user while Sasuke and Neji doesn't and Neji's fighting style should allow him to plow through the sand and deal damage to Gaara. As Lee damaged himself in the process, there was no way that he was going to win unless he had Gates. As Neji doesn't have that disadvantage, it's going to be a lot easier for him to bypass the sand.

 And as I posted before, as Neji is on par with KN0 Naruto's speed, then that means Neji should be able to bypass Gaara's sand.


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## Bloo (Dec 18, 2014)

Gaara was on a whole other level in terms of strength during the Chuunin Exams. The only one capable of even challenging him was Lee with Gates. Neji stands well beyond no chance. He lacks the physical strength and/or speed to bypass Gaara's automatic defenses and he has no way to even pressure Gaara.

Gaara wins this without moving a muscle.


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## UchihaX28 (Dec 18, 2014)

Bloo said:


> Gaara was on a whole other level in terms of strength during the Chuunin Exams. The only one capable of even challenging him was Lee with Gates. Neji stands well beyond no chance. He lacks the physical strength and/or speed to bypass Gaara's automatic defenses and he has no way to even pressure Gaara.
> 
> Gaara wins this without moving a muscle.



 This doesn't work because Sasuke was only on par with Unweighted Base Lee and still managed to dominate the match w/o his Sharingan.


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## Bonly (Dec 18, 2014)

Bloo said:


> Gaara was on a whole other level in terms of strength during the Chuunin Exams. The only one capable of even challenging him was Lee with Gates. Neji stands well beyond no chance. He lacks the physical strength and/or speed to bypass Gaara's automatic defenses and he has no way to even pressure Gaara.
> 
> Gaara wins this without moving a muscle.



Sasuke was capable of challenging Gaara and shortly after he landed his Chidori Gaara got knocked out then later needed to transform in order to win. Naruto managed to challenge Gaara and ended up beating him later. Both was able to challenge Gaara yet they both lacked gates so I don't see how you can say that only Lee with the gates can challenge him. 

Both Neji and Sasuke share the same speed stat of a 3 so it wouldn't be much of a stretch to say that Neji could get around Gaara's auto defense. As we also know Neji's Jūken is able to form a small chakra needle which can help him get pass Gaara's sand armor and stab Gaara at the same time and unlike Kido's golden armor, Gaara's sand armor doesn't block out chakra, which means that Neji doesn't need to have physical strength to get through the sand armor when he has Jūken. If you think Gaara wins then that's one thing but to say no one but Lee with gates can challenge him as well as say Neji stands no chance when he has a decent shot, that's a bit to much.


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## Kazekage94 (Dec 19, 2014)

The thing about Neji is that he really isn't quick. 
Like not at all.

You can use Jyukken but that's not enough. He will have to hit Gaara's gourd sand then hit Gaara's sand armor, wasting his chakra. In that time, Gaara grabs and crushes him. 

Gaara has a better portrayal he pushed Kimimaro
Neji gets shat on


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## Ennoia (Dec 19, 2014)

NarutoX28 said:


> I meant to cut that part of the post out, but I forgot. I was skimming through that part of the manga and noticed he was awake, so you're right, but I already countered this part of the argument.* It's laughable to even consider Gaara = KN0 Naruto* when time and time again, Naruto = Sasuke and KN0 Naruto is always > Sasuke until he received the Cursed Seal power boost along with 3 Tomoe Sharingan. If Neji can keep up with KN0 Naruto, who is faster than Sasuke, who blitzed Gaara, then Neji blitzes Gaara.


I never said Gaara=KN0 I said Gaara caught him. But dude, Gaara already fought on par with Naruto after taking out Sauce so why is it you saying he didnt? Gaara beat Sasuke then tied with Naruto so whatever parallels youre making is kind of irrelevant. Ill address that last portion in the next paragraph.



> No it's not. They jump at each other at the same exact time and move the same amount of distance during their clash. They are pretty much on par in terms of speed. Naruto even knew he couldn't rely on sheer speed or CQC, so he relied on brute force.
> 
> Link removed
> 
> Here, you can see he tracked his movement perfectly as his eye contact is directed towards Naruto.


Not quite, Neji ran at Naruto and fended him off, a show of reactions as I said earlier. But thats my point exactly, he had to catch up to Naruto. Neji is clearly staring into an empty space with a "!!" and *then* finding Naruto in mid air. That does not indicate that Neji was keeping up with Naruto at all. It shows the opposite. You're distorting the manga if you think Naruto rushed in on Neji because his speed wasnt good enough; the fact that Neji said "oh no" and couldnt complete a full rotation much less dodge before Naruto was on his ass is enough to show that Neji is not keeping up with Naruto.



> Link removed
> 
> He even reacted perfectly as shown in the next page and managed to grab the shurikens that Naruto threw. Neji reacted perfectly and was on par with his speed.


So catching shuriken is a notable speed feat now? There's way more evidence against Neji being Naruto speed or even keeping up with him than to the contrary. Not once has Neji shown extreme speed, he has only shown reactions which go in line with the hand speed necessary to use gentle fist.




> Then basically it contradicts everything that is ever implied. Sasuke blitzed Gaara, KN0 Naruto is always stronger than Sasuke simply b/c Base Naruto is always on par with 2 Tomoe Sasuke. If Neji is on par with KN0 Naruto's speed, then Neji should be able to blitz Gaara. The fact that Naruto didn't blitz Gaara in that incident made absolutely no sense or that would imply KN0 Naruto is slower than Sasuke which judging by his performance against Neji, we can all claim that that is complete bs.
> 
> Link removed
> 
> And no, this makes it clear he's on par with UnWeighted Lee's speed. But still, I agree, it makes no sense that Sasuke was able to blitz Gaara earlier even though Weighted Lee couldn't but UnWeighted Lee could certainly blitz Gaara which Sasuke displayed perfectly.



Its only contradicting because you're basing your opinion off of a poorly drawn fight. Guy outright said that Sasuke was moving at Lee speed and yet he was hitting Gaara, so something was wrong with Gaara as there is no other possible explanation. Even looking at the fact that Guy said he was moving at weightless Lee afterwards, still its questionable. Sasuke hit Gaara easily where a Gaara's sand was still keeping up with weightless Lee to an extent. The entire fight makes no sense.

The fact of the matter is that Neji could not keep up with Naruto and Gaara caught Naruto. The manga pages speak for themselves. Neji will be too busy on the defensive to do anything.


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## Bkprince33 (Dec 19, 2014)

Nobody gave a valid reason as to why juken wouldn't bypass the sand




Even weightless lee can beat Garra with full knowledge by outlasting him, I think Garra is being a bit overestimated in this thread


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## Ashi (Dec 19, 2014)

Paragon said:


> Who among the rookies do you think has a good chance against Gaara besides Lee, Sasuke, and Naruto?



Lee wasn't a rookie

As for the rest of em

they get creamed


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## Kazekage94 (Dec 19, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> Nobody gave a valid reason as to why juken wouldn't bypass the sand
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No you're blowing it out of proportion. 
Weightless Lee can't beat Gaara whatsoever.
Gaara's portrayal is better than Lee and Neji's

The fact that Naruto punched him and Neji got knocked out means that Gaara easily wins.

Gaara kills him.


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## Kazekage94 (Dec 19, 2014)

Didn't Naruto survive the 8 palms?

Why can't Gaara do the same? He has a beast in him as well.

If you think a regular Rookie can beat a kid Jin you're gladly mistaken.


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## Ashi (Dec 19, 2014)

Kazekage94 said:


> Didn't Naruto survive the 8 palms?
> 
> Why can't Gaara do the same? He has a beast in him as well.
> 
> If you think a regular Rookie can beat a kid Jin you're gladly mistaken.



Neji wasn't a rookie either


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## UchihaX28 (Dec 20, 2014)

Ennoia said:


> I never said Gaara=KN0 I said Gaara caught him. But dude, Gaara already fought on par with Naruto after taking out Sauce so why is it you saying he didnt? Gaara beat Sasuke then tied with Naruto so whatever parallels youre making is kind of irrelevant. Ill address that last portion in the next paragraph.



 That was Shukaku Gaara. Even Naruto was getting wrecked hard until he realized his friend's survival depended on him beating Shukaku Gaara. Even from what the fight implies, Sasuke > Base Gaara. That is implied and there is no ifs or buts about it. The fact that Neji fought KN0 Naruto on equal grounds means Neji is superior to Sasuke which means he's also superior to Gaara.



> Not quite, Neji ran at Naruto and fended him off, a show of reactions as I said earlier. But thats my point exactly, he had to catch up to Naruto. Neji is clearly staring into an empty space with a "!!" and *then* finding Naruto in mid air. That does not indicate that Neji was keeping up with Naruto at all. It shows the opposite. You're distorting the manga if you think Naruto rushed in on Neji because his speed wasnt good enough; the fact that Neji said "oh no" and couldnt complete a full rotation much less dodge before Naruto was on his ass is enough to show that Neji is not keeping up with Naruto.



 But both jumped at the same time and landed simultaneously. From the scan I showed, you can clearly tell both reacted at the same time with their kunais, grabbed it at the same time and moved at the same exact distance. Naruto realized fighting up close and relying on speed alone wouldn't be enough based on that and used brute force as well as a strategic plan to take him down. His "exclamation marks" implies he's shocked by his speed increase. He simply didn't expect it, but you can clearly tell on the lower left hand corner that his reaction is calm as he detected KN0 Naruto in that instant and reacted perfectly. It doesn't even matter if he may have not used a full rotation in that instant as later, during their clash, he still manages a rotation that pretty much damages Naruto as well when Naruto charged at Neji first and caught him totally off-guard.




> So catching shuriken is a notable speed feat now? There's way more evidence against Neji being Naruto speed or even keeping up with him than to the contrary. Not once has Neji shown extreme speed, he has only shown reactions which go in line with the hand speed necessary to use gentle fist.



 No, but the fact that Neji and KN0 Naruto moved the same exact distance during their kunai clash and landed simultaneously suggests otherwise. Neji can outright blitz Naruto's clones. You really are going to tell me that Neji has no speed feats? Not even Sasuke can blitz Naruto, ever.




> Its only contradicting because you're basing your opinion off of a poorly drawn fight. Guy outright said that Sasuke was moving at Lee speed and yet he was hitting Gaara, so something was wrong with Gaara as there is no other possible explanation. Even looking at the fact that Guy said he was moving at weightless Lee afterwards, still its questionable. Sasuke hit Gaara easily where a Gaara's sand was still keeping up with weightless Lee to an extent. The entire fight makes no sense.



 I never disagreed. The rest made sense IMO as Lee had to use Gates as his only damaging move was the Hidden Lotus which damaged the user severely while Chidori is a piercing move, more likely to pierce through Gaara's armor as well as the fact that it doesn't damage the user (even though it does have a limitation). However, the beginning of the fight, I agree, made no sense. I could assume the first hit was due to Gaara being caught off-guard by Sasuke's speed, but other than that, Sasuke using his Initial Speed shouldn't have blitzed Gaara.





> The fact of the matter is that Neji could not keep up with Naruto and Gaara caught Naruto. The manga pages speak for themselves. Neji will be too busy on the defensive to do anything.



 So suddenly Gaara is above Sasuke? I mean, if you're going to say that if Gaara can react and catch KN0 Naruto, then he'd have to be above Sasuke which is not the case.  But personally, the scene prior to him using the chakra stated Naruto was only asking for a little bit of chakra, so it's possible he didn't use as much chakra as he did against Neji which makes sense. If it helps, Naruto summoning the Kyuubi chakra against Gaara only made a small area of sand splash while against Neji, tails formed around him that literally blew the area around Naruto and Neji or even the whole arena. 

 This:

  to an extent

 is more impressive than this:


 to an extent


 I definitely think that KN0 Naruto against Neji is stronger than KN0 Naruto against Gaara. 

 @Kazekage

 That makes no sense considering Naruto had some control over his own Jin while Gaara doesn't.


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## Bkprince33 (Dec 20, 2014)

Kazekage94 said:


> No you're blowing it out of proportion.
> Weightless Lee can't beat Gaara whatsoever.
> Gaara's portrayal is better than Lee and Neji's
> 
> ...



that means jack shyt   


Link removed

after reading that please explain to me why weightless lee with full knowledge wouldn't outlast garra? 





naruto needed kyubi chakra to compete with neji.

I agree garra's portrayal is higher when we factor in the biju, if he can partially transform he wrecks both lee and neji, but base garra? his portrayal is not higher


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## Kazekage94 (Dec 20, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> that means jack shyt
> 
> 
> Link removed
> ...



No base Gaara fucking pushed Kimimaro tf?
It means everything. Gaara's sand ball makes Taijutsu useless, that's why it was made in the first place. 
Lee and Neji don't hav portrayal anywhere near that level
Gaara can most likely survive the 64 palms. If that happens anyway.


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## Bkprince33 (Dec 20, 2014)

Kazekage94 said:


> No base Gaara fucking pushed Kimimaro tf?
> It means everything. Gaara's sand ball makes Taijutsu useless, that's why it was made in the first place.
> Lee and Neji don't hav portrayal anywhere near that level
> Gaara can most likely survive the 64 palms. If that happens anyway.




Lee also kept up with kimimaru in his drunken form, he was still also injured and fresh out of the hospital.


If he could use his gates it's very likely he could of pushed kimmi maybe just as far as garra.



Your also not factoring match ups at all, Kimmi's dense bones is one of the worst match ups for lee's straight forward taijutsu style because he can't damage him.




Lee already admitted he could of caused similar damage as chidori with a straight forward punch, so there goes the sand ball, he wouldn't need to be wary of counter attacks against a stationary opponent and with full knowledge he would just go gates and break threw that shyt anyway.




With full knowledge lee could've simply outlasted garra while weightless or go gates and remove the sand gourd off of garra's back and gg, garra's victory against lee was due to the fact that lee had no knowledge that was made clear.



Neji hits garra with 64 palms and it's GG, garra wouldn't be able to use sand with no chakra and would be easy pickings for neji.

If base gai could do this with relative ease, i see no reason why neji couldn't smack away the sand with his rotation.


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## Kazekage94 (Dec 20, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> Lee also kept up with kimimaru in his drunken form, he was still also injured and fresh out of the hospital.


And who saved him?



> If he could use his gates it's very likely he could of pushed kimmi maybe just as far as garra.


No it isn't. Kimimaro can grow bones anywhere, so the minute uses Shiko Lee can't hurt him. 




> Your also not factoring match ups at all, Kimmi's dense bones is one of the worst match ups for lee's straight forward taijutsu style because he can't damage him.


I said by portrayal. Gaara still beat Lee even though Lee had the advantage.




> Lee already admitted he could of caused similar damage as chidori with a straight forward punch, so there goes the sand ball, he wouldn't need to be wary of counter attacks against a stationary opponent and with full knowledge he would just go gates and break threw that shyt anyway.


Scan? And No he can't. Gaara's infused sand blocked Kimimaros strongest attack. One damn kick isnt doing shit.

With full knowledge lee could've simply outlasted garra while weightless or go gates and remove the sand gourd off of garra's back and gg, garra's victory against lee was due to the fact that lee had no knowledge that was made clear.
No. The sand ball renders Lees taijutsu useless. Especially without weights. 




> Neji hits garra with 64 palms and it's GG, garra wouldn't be able to use sand with no chakra and would be easy pickings for neji.


Gaara isnt giving him that chance. Need I remind you how quickly Gaara can swap clones. Need a remind Gaara has a tailed beast inside him.



> If base gai could do this with relative ease, i see no reason why neji couldn't smack away the sand with his rotation.


Base Guy does not equal Neji.


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## UchihaX28 (Dec 20, 2014)

Kazekage94 said:


> And who saved him?



 Gaara. Even then, Lee opening the first or second gate pressured Kimimaro to the point where he needed to use part of the Cursed Seal. Even then, Gaara (Sasuke Rescue Arc) >>> Gaara (Chuunin Exams) which we're discussing about. If we were talking about Gaara against Kimi, then yes, he'd rape Neji.




> No it isn't. Kimimaro can grow bones anywhere, so the minute uses Shiko Lee can't hurt him.



 Which means a taijutsu master like Lee would do worse than a ninjutsu user like Gaara.



[quote[ I said by portrayal. Gaara still beat Lee even though Lee had the advantage. [/quote]

 Because all of Lee's powerful techniques damages the user himself.





> Scan? And No he can't. Gaara's infused sand blocked Kimimaros strongest attack. One damn kick isnt doing shit.



 To be fair, Gaara infused sand from the soil to block Kimi's attack. The sand ball against Sasuke didn't and is by far less durable as even Chidori pierced through it.



> No. The sand ball renders Lees taijutsu useless. Especially without weights.



 I agree here. Lee's hits can definitely push Gaara's basic sand shield, but not the sand ball.





> Gaara isnt giving him that chance. Need I remind you how quickly Gaara can swap clones. Need a remind Gaara has a tailed beast inside him.



 Neji has byakugan. How is he going to fall for a simple sand clone? He only fell for Naruto's due to the fact that Naruto is one of the most, if not, the most proficient clone user in the entire series even at this point. As Gaara's sand clone hardly has any chakra in it, he can simply bypass it. If Sasuke wanted to, he could've used Weighted Lee speed just to bypass it. Since Neji is superior to Unweighted Lee, he's bypassing that chit easily. 

 And LMAO, we're not talking about Shukaku Gaara who would rape Neji over and over again.




> Base Guy does not equal Neji.



 Neji's rotation pushes chakra back, so there's no reason why Rotation can't deflect Gaara's sand.


----------



## Ennoia (Dec 20, 2014)

NarutoX28 said:


> That was Shukaku Gaara. Even Naruto was getting wrecked hard until he realized his friend's survival depended on him beating Shukaku Gaara. Even from what the fight implies, Sasuke > Base Gaara. That is implied and there is no ifs or buts about it. The fact that Neji fought KN0 Naruto on equal grounds means Neji is superior to Sasuke which means he's also superior to Gaara.


Oh ok if we're just limiting Gaara to base then I agree he cant beat Naruto with the Kyuubi. I still dont see any hint that Sasuke>Gaara though. Ill address that last part later.



> But both jumped at the same time and landed simultaneously. From the scan I showed, you can clearly tell both reacted at the same time with their kunais, grabbed it at the same time and moved at the same exact distance.


They did not jump at the same time, the manga shows Neji constantly taking the initiative. If you look at the speed lines behind Neji he was turning to Naruto and pulling out a kunai, Naruto had no speed lines because he was already standing on the wall and pulled out his kunai after Neji. Naruto was stationary while Neji was still turning around. This alone contradicts the notion that Neji could keep up with Naruto.



> Naruto realized fighting up close and relying on speed alone wouldn't be enough based on that and used brute force as well as a strategic plan to take him down.


This is based on the premise that Neji was the same speed as Naruto, so I wont address it. Ill address the premise.



> His "exclamation marks" implies he's shocked by his speed increase. He simply didn't expect it, but you can clearly tell on the lower left hand corner that his reaction is calm as he detected KN0 Naruto in that instant and reacted perfectly.


Neji has consistently shown to be calm, cautious, and analytic, yet youre telling me that he could not react to Naruto until he was behind him? Deidara was surprised yet he reacted to Sasuke while blowing him off but Neji completely lost sight of Naruto due to surprise only? What Naruto did is nothing short of what Sasuke did to Team 7 at the beginning of the TS and nothing suggests otherwise.



> It doesn't even matter if he may have not used a full rotation in that instant as later, during their clash, he still manages a rotation that pretty much damages Naruto as well when Naruto charged at Neji first and caught him totally off-guard.


So he caught Neji off guard again even though Neji was staring at him intently and screaming while running at him? You tell me what sounds more reasonable, Naruto being too fast for Neji or Neji being caught off guard by a screaming opponent rushing at him after declaring their intentions. The fact that Neji could not spin in a circle before Naruto reached him is again clear cut evidence.



> No, but the fact that Neji and KN0 Naruto moved the same exact distance during their kunai clash and landed simultaneously suggests otherwise. Neji can outright blitz Naruto's clones. You really are going to tell me that Neji has no speed feats? Not even Sasuke can blitz Naruto, ever.


They moved the same distance because Neji ran first and im pretty sure he never blitzed Naruto, he beat base Naruto's clones with Taijutsu which is a show of reactions.



> I never disagreed. The rest made sense IMO as Lee had to use Gates as his only damaging move was the Hidden Lotus which damaged the user severely while Chidori is a piercing move, more likely to pierce through Gaara's armor as well as the fact that it doesn't damage the user (even though it does have a limitation). However, the beginning of the fight, I agree, made no sense. I could assume the first hit was due to Gaara being caught off-guard by Sasuke's speed, but other than that, Sasuke using his Initial Speed shouldn't have blitzed Gaara.


I dont fully agree with this but I dont think its relevant as of now so Ill leave it alone.



> So suddenly Gaara is above Sasuke? I mean, if you're going to say that if Gaara can react and catch KN0 Naruto, then he'd have to be above Sasuke which is not the case.  But personally, the scene prior to him using the chakra stated Naruto was only asking for a little bit of chakra, so it's possible he didn't use as much chakra as he did against Neji which makes sense. If it helps, Naruto summoning the Kyuubi chakra against Gaara only made a small area of sand splash while against Neji, tails formed around him that literally blew the area around Naruto and Neji or even the whole arena.
> 
> This:
> here
> ...


This is not such a simple thing to answer but essentially I will say yes. Sasuke could not maintain that speed and he was panting after his first attack, which Lee commented on. And those tails were just for show, the level of destruction the tails cause when forming has changed throughout the manga. However, if we compare the amount of water pushed back in the fight with Sasuke to the amount of sand pushed back it seems reasonable. Whether or not the tails are visible is another story because Neji has Byakugan. We never saw any tails when Jiraiya pushed Naruto in the hole yet he said the amount of chakra was the same.


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## bleakwinter (Dec 21, 2014)

Puppetry said:


> I am of the opinion that it will, as Jūken is effective against chakra-imbued objects.



This.

People need to understand that Gaara's sand in kneaded with Chakra, which is what enables is to be tough enough to protect Gaara in the first place. It's been proven that Juken can pummel right through strong defenses that are Chakra-enhanced (Such as Kidoumaru's sticky gold and webs). Neji may not be physically fast enough to physically replicate Lee's feats, but he doesn't needed to be. Given what is known about Juken, it should be able to simply bypass Gaara's sand defenses.


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## Bkprince33 (Dec 21, 2014)

Kazekage94 said:


> And who saved him?


Umm ok?



Kazekage94 said:


> No it isn't. Kimimaro can grow bones anywhere, so the minute uses Shiko Lee can't hurt him.


Kimmi won't be able to react when lee is in gated form, unless your asserting kimmi, just spikes up his whole body before hand but he would have to knowledge to execute such a ooc stregety


Kazekage94 said:


> I said by portrayal. Gaara still beat Lee even though Lee had the advantage.


good to know, to bad here in the battledome we don't go only by portrayal



Kazekage94 said:


> Scan? And No he can't. Gaara's infused sand blocked Kimimaros strongest attack. One damn kick isnt doing shit.



the garra that fought kimmi >>>>>>>> chunnin exam garra which is who where discussing

Link removed
Different translations go with different statements but the reason why lee doesn't attempt a attack like that is because he doesn't have the sharingon, but against a stationary target i see no reason why he couldn't attempt it. Also gates is plowing straight threw that shyt 



Kazekage94 said:


> No. The sand ball renders Lees taijutsu useless. Especially without weights.


the sand ball is broken with a straight punch or the gates, if where talking neji, juken is going to get threw reread neji vs kidoumaru



Kazekage94 said:


> Gaara isnt giving him that chance. Need I remind you how quickly Gaara can swap clones. Need a remind Gaara has a tailed beast inside him.



only reason garra was able to swap clones on lee is because he paused from the pain of the gates, neji isn't pausing and has a byakugon to boot, unless garra is making over 20 clones like naruto that isn't helping him, and shukaku is restricted in this scenerio, we all know a biju >>>>>> any form of neji



Kazekage94 said:


> Base Guy does not equal Neji.



not what i said,i said if base guy can slap away garra's sand why couldn't neji's rotation accomplish the same?


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## Kazekage94 (Dec 21, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> Umm ok?


Exactly


> Kimmi won't be able to react when lee is in gated form, unless your asserting kimmi, just spikes up his whole body before hand but he would have to knowledge to execute such a ooc stregety


He doesn't have to. His bones are like steel. He isn't hurting Kimimaro. Especially in CS1 or 2.


> good to know, to bad here in the battledome we don't go only by portrayal


Ok, and Gaara has better feats than Neji. So what is your point?



> the garra that fought kimmi >>>>>>>> chunnin exam garra which is who where discussing


OP clearly stated Part 1 Gaara. Which includes the one that fought Kimimaro.


> Link removed
> Different translations go with different statements but the reason why lee doesn't attempt a attack like that is because he doesn't have the sharingon, but against a stationary target i see no reason why he couldn't attempt it. Also gates is plowing straight threw that shyt


No it's not. That's why the sand ball was made. 



> the sand ball is broken with a straight punch or the gates, if where talking neji, juken is going to get threw reread neji vs kidoumaru


How when Sasuke couldn't do it? Gates are no match for Gaara's sand because Kimimaro bones weren't getting through it. 



> only reason garra was able to swap clones on lee is because he paused from the pain of the gates, neji isn't pausing and has a byakugon to boot, unless garra is making over 20 clones like naruto that isn't helping him, and shukaku is restricted in this scenerio, we all know a biju >>>>>> any form of neji
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Undead (Dec 21, 2014)

Mother of God, this thread.


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## Chaotic Gangsta (Dec 22, 2014)

Gaara with ease. Better offense and even greater defense.


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## UchihaX28 (Dec 23, 2014)

Kazekage94 said:


> Exactly



 Ummm Okay?



> He doesn't have to. His bones are like steel. He isn't hurting Kimimaro. Especially in CS1 or 2.



 CS1, haha no. CS1 doesn't have incredible feats, enough to withstand multiple powerful blows from Gates. CS2 is debatable and would think Gates may not be able to pierce through that defense. Even then, he needed to actually have his bones portrude out of his body to tank a kick from what, 1st or 2nd Gates Lee? (been a while since I read the fight) 5th Gates Lee is a lot stronger and faster and is likely going to react a lot faster than Kimimaro can use his bones to even negate the attack, so CS1 Kimimaro is likely going to take damage.



> Ok, and Gaara has better feats than Neji. So what is your point?



 Gaara (Chuunin Exams) is the Gaara everyone's discussing, and based on that, he couldn't keep up with Unweighted Lee while Neji is portrayed to be above Lee w/o Gates, so by that logic, Neji is already portrayed to be stronger.




> OP clearly stated Part 1 Gaara. Which includes the one that fought Kimimaro.



 No, it doesn't



> No it's not. That's why the sand ball was made.



 Agreed here. Lee stated using a technique like Sasuke's is something he wouldn't do because moving at high speeds in a linear fashion leaves Lee vulnerable while a Sharingan user like Sasuke is able to use it effectively as he can still analyze his opponent's moves. Even then, Lee's simply taijutsu isn't breaking the Sand ball if Sasuke's basic taijutsu couldn't do it which managed to get through Gaara's sand armor.


How when Sasuke couldn't do it? Gates are no match for Gaara's sand because Kimimaro bones weren't getting through it. 



> only reason garra was able to swap clones on lee is because he paused from the pain of the gates, neji isn't pausing and has a byakugon to boot, unless garra is making over 20 clones like naruto that isn't helping him, and shukaku is restricted in this scenerio, we all know a biju >>>>>> any form of neji
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Bloo (Dec 23, 2014)

How is anyone using portrayal against Gaara in this scenario? Gaara was the final villain of the Chuunin Exam arc. His portrayal was above everyone else's in every regard, case and point. I don't even see how this can be debated.

Yes, Neji was portrayed to be above Lee, not Gated Lee. And Gated Lee could not defeat Gaara and Gated Lee even failed to harm Gaara in any way. 

Neji does not have the tools, speed, or strength to break through Gaara's automatic defense and all Gaara has to do is grab Neji and then end it with a crushing maneuver. 

Gaara wins very easily.


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## UchihaX28 (Dec 23, 2014)

Bloo said:


> How is anyone using portrayal against Gaara in this scenario? Gaara was the final villain of the Chuunin Exam arc. His portrayal was above everyone else's in every regard, case and point. I don't even see how this can be debated.
> 
> Yes, Neji was portrayed to be above Lee, not Gated Lee. And Gated Lee could not defeat Gaara and Gated Lee even failed to harm Gaara in any way.
> 
> ...




 Except Sasuke damaged Gaara through his sand armor with just simple taijutsu.

 Gentle Fist and 64 palms is more than enough.


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## Veo (Dec 23, 2014)

NarutoX28 said:


> Except Sasuke damaged Gaara through his sand armor with just simple taijutsu.
> 
> Gentle Fist and 64 palms is more than enough.



Dude, he used raikiri to pierce through the sand barrier... I'm amazed there are still people debating here. Gaara was and is the strongest of the rookies (excluding Naruto and Sasuke), and Kishimoto has always portrayed it that way.


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## wooly Eullerex (Dec 23, 2014)

did neji win yet?

are some people still oblivious/


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## Bloo (Dec 23, 2014)

NarutoX28 said:


> Except Sasuke damaged Gaara through his sand armor with just simple taijutsu.
> 
> Gentle Fist and 64 palms is more than enough.


Gaara's first time of being injured within his entire life was when Sasuke used Chidori for the first time on-panel.

Either you've been reading a ton of fanfiction, or you incorrectly believe chidori to be "simple taijutsu," which one is it?


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## UchihaX28 (Dec 23, 2014)

Bloo said:


> Gaara's first time of being injured within his entire life was when Sasuke used Chidori for the first time on-panel.
> 
> Either you've been reading a ton of fanfiction, or you incorrectly believe chidori to be "simple taijutsu," which one is it?



bounced right off

 I said got through his sand armor. Never said anything about being wounded. And yes, he did get through it with simple taijutsu and even Kankuro himself stated Gaara can't use it for long as it uses too much chakra. If Neji can conserve his chakra and simple beat through his armor (which is easy considering Sasuke did w/ simple taijutsu), then Neji is obviously going to win.


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## Icegaze (Dec 23, 2014)

Please note naruto survived 64 palms cuz neji wasn't trying to kill him
Kidomaru died to far less strikes 
Also 1 jukken chakra flow messed up several organs 
How is gaara supposed to crush someone who can release chakra constantly and troll the sand 
Gaara level at the time wasn't enough to simply overwhelm him with Massive AoE sand 

War arc gaara would brutalize war arc neji though


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## Undead (Dec 23, 2014)

Bloo said:


> Gaara's first time of being injured within his entire life was when Sasuke used Chidori for the first time on-panel.
> 
> Either you've been reading a ton of fanfiction, or you incorrectly believe chidori to be "simple taijutsu," which one is it?


Actually, Lee was the first to hurt Gaara, after he took off his weights.


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## Kazekage94 (Dec 23, 2014)

I don't see why Gaara can't survive the 64 palms. He is a jinchuriki after all.


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## Kazekage94 (Dec 23, 2014)

If this Gaara is the one that fought Lee 
And the Neji that fought Hinata then Gaara still wins

Neji didn't show speed against Hinata, and only showed Taijutsu.

Gaara has more impressive feats. 

Gaara that beat Kimimaro would still murder Neji


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## Undead (Dec 23, 2014)

Kazekage94 said:


> If this Gaara is the one that fought Lee
> And the Neji that fought Hinata then Gaara still wins
> 
> Neji didn't show speed against Hinata, and only showed Taijutsu.
> ...


Gaara didn't beat Kimimaro. Kimimaro succumbed to his disease.


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## UchihaX28 (Dec 23, 2014)

Kazekage94 said:


> I don't see why Gaara can't survive the 64 palms. He is a jinchuriki after all.



 Naruto couldn't do anything without the help of Kurama. If Naruto couldn't do anything, what chance does Gaara have of doing anything when he has no control over his tailed beast?


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## Kazekage94 (Dec 24, 2014)

Paragon said:


> Gaara didn't beat Kimimaro. Kimimaro succumbed to his disease.



I still count it as a win. KIMIMARO didn't beat Gaara in that amount time. Gaara held him back long enough. No other rookie would be able to do that. 
Kimimaro is faster than Neji no?


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## Kazekage94 (Dec 24, 2014)

NarutoX28 said:


> Naruto couldn't do anything without the help of Kurama. If Naruto couldn't do anything, what chance does Gaara of doing anything when he has no control over his tailed beast?



Naruto still healed quicker. Since he had the 9 tails. 
I bet Gaara can do the same. The tailed beasts have that ability. Shukaku is not just going to let Gaara die because he dies too. Gaara might not able to control thr beast but he can use perks.


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## Undead (Dec 29, 2014)

Kazekage94 said:


> I still count it as a win. KIMIMARO didn't beat Gaara in that amount time. Gaara held him back long enough. No other rookie would be able to do that.
> Kimimaro is faster than Neji no?


Difference of opinion on the definition of win then. We saw that Gaara was about to be killed off right before Kimimaro's illness kicked in. Yeah, Gaara survived, Kimimaro lost. In that sense Gaara won. But Kimimaro had it in the bag, and for most of the fight was on top I believe. You're right though about Gaara being one of the few characters who can hold off Kimimaro as long as he did.


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## Skywalker (Dec 30, 2014)

Kazekage94 said:


> I still count it as a win. KIMIMARO didn't beat Gaara in that amount time. Gaara held him back long enough. No other rookie would be able to do that.
> Kimimaro is faster than Neji no?


Gaara and Lee were a moment away from getting stabbed in the face, Kimimaro being sick is the only thing that saved them, and that's a win? Holy shit.


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## Kazekage94 (Dec 30, 2014)

Skyialker said:


> Gaara and Lee were a moment away from getting stabbed in the face, Kimimaro being sick is the only thing that saved them, and that's a win? Holy shit.



It still counts as a win though. 
Gaara most certainly didn't lose. 
A battle od attrition results in a winner dude. In this case, it was Gaara
So yes it is.


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## -JT- (Jan 2, 2015)

Neji wins with difficulty.

The Byakugan would allow him to analyse and work out the mechanics behind Gaara's sand a lot more quickly than Lee. Neji's speed was also on a similar level to that of Base Lee, so he would be able to keep evading as his team mate did.
Although Neji did not show to have Rotation in the preliminaries, it is possible that he had an imperfect version at this time, which would naturally help in his defence.
Finally, Neji would have a much easier time actually attacking Gaara than Lee did, because his Gentle Fist allows him to smash through chakra constructs, thus enabling him to break through the sand shield and armour.


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## Kazekage94 (Jan 2, 2015)

-JT- said:


> Neji wins with difficulty.
> 
> The Byakugan would allow him to analyse and work out the mechanics behind Gaara's sand a lot more quickly than Lee. Neji's speed was also on a similar level to that of Base Lee, so he would be able to keep evading as his team mate did.
> Although Neji did not show to have Rotation in the preliminaries, it is possible that he had an imperfect version at this time, which would naturally help in his defence.
> Finally, Neji would have a much easier time actually attacking Gaara than Lee did, because his Gentle Fist allows him to smash through chakra constructs, thus enabling him to break through the sand shield and armour.



When has Neji shown the same speed as Lee?


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## Bkprince33 (Jan 4, 2015)

garra was only really portrayed higher then the other rookies, when he tapped into his biju, before partial transformation sasuke was handing his ass to him


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## Kazekage94 (Jan 4, 2015)

Bkprince33 said:


> garra was only really portrayed higher then the other rookies, when he tapped into his biju, before partial transformation sasuke was handing his ass to him


Not really


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## Bkprince33 (Jan 4, 2015)

Kazekage94 said:


> Not really



not really what? sasuke wasn't clearly winning or his portrayal was higher then the other rookies even without the biju?


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## Sadgoob (Jan 4, 2015)

Kazekage94 said:


> When has Neji shown the same speed as Lee?



If Lee and Gai thought that Lee needed the five gates to beat Neji down, then it's safe to say that Neji could not only react and counter weightless Lee, but defeat him pretty assuredly.

Moreover, in databook 2, Nej had a speed of 4, which is right there with weightless Lee. And IMO that's about what he had in the 2nd round of the CE when he was keeping up with KN0.

Therefore, I believe Neji has the same ability as Lee to get around Gaara's sand, but unlike Lee, it's possible the gentle fist would cut right through the sand armor and hurt Gaara.

The critical point in the match would be whether the Gentle Fist could crumble Gaara's sand sphere and prevent him from transforming into Shukaku. IMO it could like with Kido's web.

However, I don't think Neji could defeat Gaara if he's even partially transformed into Shukaku.​


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## Kazekage94 (Jan 4, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> If Lee and Gai thought that Lee needed the five gates to beat Neji down, then it's safe to say that Neji could not only react and counter weightless Lee, but defeat him pretty assuredly.
> 
> Moreover, in databook 2, Nej had a speed of 4, which is right there with weightless Lee. And IMO that's about what he had in the 2nd round of the CE when he was keeping up with KN0.
> 
> ...



It was never stated that he needed 5 gates to defeat him
I was thinking Neji was portrayed higher because of the yakugan and rotation defence.

I don't disagree with it getting through his defence but Gaara's has the capabilities to take down Neji. 
Neji can't release chakra at any point only from his fists during that time. So Gaara can catch him.


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## Kazekage94 (Jan 4, 2015)

Bkprince33 said:


> not really what? sasuke wasn't clearly winning or his portrayal was higher then the other rookies even without the biju?



During the first round of the exams Gaara was portrayed higher than Lee, who was higher than Sasuke. Without Lee, Sasuke wouldn't have been anything because his speed wasn't quick. 

The one Kimimaro fought would destroy Sasuke as well. Chidori has a charge time for Sasuke.


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## Bkprince33 (Jan 4, 2015)

Kazekage94 said:


> During the first round of the exams Gaara was portrayed higher than Lee, who was higher than Sasuke. Without Lee, Sasuke wouldn't have been anything because his speed wasn't quick.
> 
> The one Kimimaro fought would destroy Sasuke as well. Chidori has a charge time for Sasuke.



ok but sasuke got the power up anyway so how is this relevant to what i said?



if you mean ce exam sasuke yea, if you mean valley of the end sasuke then you lost your marbles.


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## Kazekage94 (Jan 5, 2015)

Bkprince33 said:


> ok but sasuke got the power up anyway so how is this relevant to what i said?
> 
> 
> 
> if you mean ce exam sasuke yea, if you mean valley of the end sasuke then you lost your marbles.



Gaara would still win. 
He also got a power boost.


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## trance (Jan 5, 2015)

Strictly from a portrayal perspective, Gaara is considerably stronger than Neji. He pushed Kimimaro to his maximum while Neji struggled to beat Kidomaru. Regarding feats, Gaara still handily wins. Not only is he stronger overall but he's a bad matchup for Neji - long range as opposed to close range - and his AoE is also something Neji would have to watch out for. Kimimaro is immensely faster and more agile yet couldn't fully avoid his sand.


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## Bkprince33 (Jan 5, 2015)

Kazekage94 said:


> Gaara would still win.
> He also got a power boost.



 


you seriously think garra is beating vote sasuke?


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## UchihaX28 (Jan 5, 2015)

Bkprince33 said:


> you seriously think garra is beating vote sasuke?



 3 Tomoe Sasuke only beat KN0 Naruto due to KN0 Naruto's rash behavior which allowed him to be countered efficiently. Kimimaro literally swept through KN0 Naruto's clones effortlessly, so a Taijutsu master like that isn't losing to 3 Tomoe Sasuke. That, and gathering all that sand for a sand tsunami would crush Sasuke and not even a skilled Taijutsu master who can dance around KN0 Naruto's clones couldn't even avoid it, not even with CS. He had to resort to defensive maneuvers if he wanted to survive.

 The only way Sasuke would have a chance is honestly if there's no sand around.

 But on topic, this discussion is about CE Gaara, not VOTE Gaara. That should've been obvious. It doesn't have to be spelled out for you to know that this is CE Gaara. What's next, are you guys going to factor in Shukaku Gaara as well even though that's literally a rape fest for Gaara.


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## Kazekage94 (Jan 5, 2015)

Bkprince33 said:


> you seriously think garra is beating vote sasuke?



Yes.

Bijuu vs Curse Mark. You should know.

Without the Bijuu Gaara would still win.


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## Nikushimi (Jan 6, 2015)

This would've been a good fight...up until Gaara starts Bijuu-morphing.


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