# sakura is officially an idiot.



## MCHammerdad (May 25, 2011)

After 2 attempted murders she still loves him...  sasuke must have something special all the girls like.


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## Seto Kaiba (May 25, 2011)

For a more familiar example, It's like if Rihanna ran back to Chris Brown after he beat her. Except in this case the love she had for him wouldn't be reciprocal, and he was trying to kill her.


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## Jak N Blak (May 25, 2011)

You know you cant rely chose if you're gonna love a person or not. Emotions > logically thinking. It applies to all of us.


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## Crows (May 25, 2011)

DAT SAUCE~

Seriously though none of this is shocking.


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## perman07 (May 25, 2011)

jaknblak said:


> You know you cant rely chose if you're gonna love a person or not. Emotions > logically thinking. It applies to all of us.


Well, I think most people are able to change their emotions once they learn who they love is a sociapath.

Humans are more than slaves to our emotions.


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## Mr Horrible (May 25, 2011)

jaknblak said:


> You know you cant rely chose if you're gonna love a person or not. Emotions > logically thinking. It applies to all of us.



I would class attempted murder as a deeply emotional thing tbh. 

And why on earth do emotions have to be illogical? Personally I find that most of mine make perfect sense.


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## C-Moon (May 25, 2011)

It's called Kishi not knowing how to write a healthy romance.


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## MCHammerdad (May 25, 2011)

^ your a guy.


Ours makes sense, sakura however is a women.

A teenage women at that.


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## NarutoIzDaMan (May 25, 2011)

Well, if it's a consolation at the very LEAST she does seem to be aware that her feelings for Sasuke are nothing to be proud of. So I guess in that regard she isn't ALL that delusional


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## son_michael (May 25, 2011)

jaknblak said:


> You know you cant rely chose if you're gonna love a person or not. Emotions > logically thinking. It applies to all of us.




this is wrong in so many ways. Maybe this applies to fiction but in in the real world people fall in and out of love at the drop of a hat.


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## Jak N Blak (May 25, 2011)

Mr Horrible said:


> I would class attempted murder as a deeply emotional thing tbh.
> 
> And why on earth do emotions have to be illogical? Personally I find that most of mine make perfect sense.



I never said emotions HAVE to be illogical though, lol.


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## GunX2 (May 25, 2011)

Sasuke-kun is precious to her.


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## Klue (May 25, 2011)

Girls do it all the time. It isn't a big deal, she is still young.


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## Seto Kaiba (May 25, 2011)

It's how Charles Manson still gets wedding proposals.


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## Yagami1211 (May 25, 2011)

Gamma Akutabi said:


> It's called Kishi not knowing how to write a healthy romance.



Is it really supposed to be healthy ?


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## alchemy1234 (May 25, 2011)

Its the uchiha cock i tell you. Its irresistible.


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## gabzilla (May 25, 2011)

She seems to be aware of it, if that makes you feel better


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## son_michael (May 25, 2011)

alchemy1234 said:


> Its the uchiha cock i tell you. Its irresistible.




Sasuke's a virgin, he probably has never even masturbated before.  


EVIL!! REVENGEE!!!RARRR!!!


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## Inugami (May 25, 2011)

NarutoIzDaMan said:


> Well, if it's a consolation at the very LEAST she does seem to be aware that her feelings for Sasuke are nothing to be proud of. So I guess in that regard she isn't ALL that delusional



Yest it was funny, and damn I was in love with two girls that I really shouldn't (of course they didn't try to kill me lol) so I kinda feel for Sakura.


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## Mr Horrible (May 25, 2011)

jaknblak said:


> I never said emotions HAVE to be illogical though, lol.



I would however say that all emotions are logical, however considering the amount of factors unique to each individual, some particular emotions may appear illogical.

Either way the only thing saving SS is a horrible retcon flashback.


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## Nehilith (May 25, 2011)

It’s not the fact she loves him that’s idiotic. It’s the fact she still hasn’t given up on the possibility of a relationship.


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## MCHammerdad (May 25, 2011)

Sasuke a virgin? 



No one who acted as cool as he I sasuke could b a virgin. 


I'm sure he and orochimaru had some intense training sessions lol


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## Seto Kaiba (May 25, 2011)

son_michael said:


> Sasuke's a virgin, he probably has never even masturbated before.
> 
> 
> EVIL!! REVENGEE!!!RARRR!!!



I think he gets off on killing. Did you see that face when he thought he killed Danzo the first time?

That stated, that's probably gonna make marital life very complicated for his partner...


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## PikaCheeka (May 25, 2011)

She's a real idiot, isn't she?

Never mind the fact that she solved the Zetsu case, we should instead focus on her love life. That was the central point of the chapter, after all.


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## Coldhands (May 25, 2011)

She's been officially an idiot since chapter 3


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## Mathias124 (May 25, 2011)

MCHammerdad said:


> After 2 attempted murders she still loves him...  sasuke must have something special all the girls like.



Well genitically speaking his dna is superior to most other males,


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## Kyuubi Naruto (May 25, 2011)

Sakura has been an idiot for a very long time. 

It's no shocker to me. She's screwed up so much it's just protocol now. Sakura still having feelings for Sasuke of course makes her look dumber and dumber but at the same time after he tried to kill her? She's just a stupid teenage girl who's not mature yet, with the killing though she's definitely twisting some heads. I'm glad Naruto won't be with a girl like that. He needs a smarter and stronger woman.


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## Zaelapolopollo (May 25, 2011)

Sometimes you have to kill the one you love.

Sakura will kill Sasuke I mean.


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## Garfield (May 25, 2011)

I'm still convinced that she was only thinking of Sasuke as a remembrance of how she was stupidly in "love" with him just like this ninja is with her


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## son_michael (May 25, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> I think he gets off on killing. Did you see that face when he thought he killed Danzo the first time?
> 
> That stated, that's probably gonna make marital life very complicated for his partner...



HA HA

Sakura!! oh yes!!it feels so good!!


Sasuke!!!help me Naruto!!! *dies*

Sasuke- sex face


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## Zaelapolopollo (May 25, 2011)

I wonder if the Telegram section has had a "I hate Sakura" thread made for every chapter released.

Like, during the chapters where Pein fought Jiraiya, did some reject still make a :baawww Sakura baaaaaaaawwwww" thread?  I bet they did.


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## Mishari (May 25, 2011)

Sasuke-kun is such a lovable guy. 

I truly understand Sakura. :33

 
.....


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## sanji's left eye (May 25, 2011)

The reason why it makes no sense is because 95% of NF is made up of guys. Of course it does not make sense to us. She is a woman and in many cases love can be illogical. Notice how millions of women are beat up by their husbands all over the world? And plenty of them still love them? Or how a child can wrong his/her parents consistently and yet the parents still love the child? It may seem crazy (because it kind of is) but this shit is real.

But yes she is an idiot.


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## Deaf Ninja Reaper (May 25, 2011)

Love Ninja - _*So he must be a good man, eh? *_

Sakura - _*A man who tried to kill my mate many times, a man who attacked the Kage Summit, a man who murdered one of the Konoha Elders, Danzou, a man who killed his own brother and DISOBEYED his brother's will NOT to betray the village and joined up with Akatsuki instead?

Oh, and he tried to kill me too! *_

Love Ninja - _*??? *_

Fuckin' crazy. At least she made up for that by brutally slamming White Zetsu's head against the box!


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## AceBizzle (May 25, 2011)

Sakura's and Naruto's obsession over Sasuke is scary....


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## Evilene (May 25, 2011)

PikaCheeka said:


> She's a real idiot, isn't she?
> 
> Never mind the fact that she solved the Zetsu case, we should instead focus on her love life. That was the central point of the chapter, after all.



Funny how's there's a thread dedicated to the former, but not the latter.


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## son_michael (May 25, 2011)

Kyuubi Naruto said:


> Sakura has been an idiot for a very long time.
> 
> It's no shocker to me. She's screwed up so much it's just protocol now. Sakura still having feelings for Sasuke of course makes her look dumber and dumber but at the same time after he tried to kill her? She's just a stupid teenage girl who's not mature yet, with the killing though she's definitely twisting some heads. I'm glad Naruto won't be with a girl like that. He needs a smarter and stronger woman.




I still want Naruto to be with her. It's a pairing that has been nicely developed in both part 1 and part 2, and Naruto loves her


though at this point, Naruto is just as bad as Sakura, the only difference is sakura isn't evil and trying to kill him


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## Zaelapolopollo (May 25, 2011)

Killing Danzou and Itachi were both good things.


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## sheshyo (May 25, 2011)

Kyuubi Naruto said:


> Sakura has been an idiot for a very long time.
> 
> It's no shocker to me. She's screwed up so much it's just protocol now. Sakura still having feelings for Sasuke of course makes her look dumber and dumber but at the same time after he tried to kill her? She's just a stupid teenage girl who's not mature yet, with the killing though she's definitely twisting some heads. I'm glad Naruto won't be with a girl like that. He needs a smarter and stronger woman.



Are you joking? You think Naruto feels differently about Sasuke?


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## gabzilla (May 25, 2011)

PikaCheeka said:


> She's a real idiot, isn't she?
> 
> Never mind the fact that she solved the Zetsu case, we should instead focus on her love life. That was the central point of the chapter, after all.



What are you talking about there's no way Sakura can be useful _and_ still have bad taste in men. Impossible!



sanji's left eye said:


> The reason why it makes no sense is because 95% of NF is made up of guys. Of course it does not make sense to us. She is a woman and in many cases love can be illogical. Notice how millions of women are beat up by their husbands all over the world? And plenty of them still love them? Or how a child can wrong his/her parents consistently and yet the parents still love the child? It may seem crazy (because it kind of is) but this shit is real.
> 
> But yes she is an idiot.



That explains Naruto!


Oh wait, Naruto is a guy. There goes your theory.


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## Seto Kaiba (May 25, 2011)

sanji's left eye said:


> The reason why it makes no sense is because 95% of NF is made up of guys. Of course it does not make sense to us. She is a woman and in many cases love can be illogical. Notice how millions of women are beat up by their husbands all over the world? And plenty of them still love them? Or how a child can wrong his/her parents consistently and yet the parents still love the child? It may seem crazy (because it kind of is) but this shit is real.
> 
> But yes she is an idiot.



It's not even about gender. No one in their right mind is gonna crawl back (well, it's not like she can crawl to something that wasn't there...) to someone that repeatedly tried to kill them, and even moreso, their friends. Those that crawl back to something like that are looked down upon or pitied upon for their weakness, and rightfully so.

Parental love is an entirely different beast than romantic love, btw.

...

Or were you being sarcastic?


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## Mr Horrible (May 25, 2011)

PikaCheeka said:


> She's a real idiot, isn't she?
> 
> Never mind the fact that she solved the Zetsu case, we should instead focus on her love life. That was the central point of the chapter, after all.



Sorry, but it wasn't any great feat that Sakura discovered the Zetsu. Sure she suspected _Neji_ of being the traitor, hence why she tested him. Once he transformed back into Zetsu _right in front of her eyes_ did she remember that Zetsu could do that.

I don't mean to bash Sakura, but to me, this wasn't any great feat of intelligence for her, the best thing she did was test Neji too.


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## Selva (May 25, 2011)

It's pathetic simple as that. Still harboring feelings for the guy who tried to kill her many times before, never gave a shit about her and he never even reciprocated her feelings for him at all. Just pathetic.


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## Mathias124 (May 25, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> I think he gets off on killing. Did you see that face when he thought he killed Danzo the first time?
> 
> That stated, that's probably gonna make marital life very complicated for his partner...



He could marry hidan?


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## Edward Newgate (May 25, 2011)

It's funny how the fodder said, "He must be a great guy if *you*'re in love with him!"

Well done, Kishi. But seriously, Sakura has no reason, and never had any reason, to like Sasuke. She's 16, does she have anything remotely resembling a functioning brain?


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## Tony Lou (May 25, 2011)

Nehilith said:


> It?s not the fact she loves him that?s idiotic. It?s the fact she still hasn?t given up on the possibility of a relationship.



And I was convinced that her crush on Sasuke already was behind her.


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## Zaelapolopollo (May 25, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> It's not even about gender. No one in their right mind is gonna crawl back (well, it's not like she can crawl to something that wasn't there...) to someone that repeatedly tried to kill them, and even moreso, their friends. Those that crawl back to something like that are looked down upon or pitied upon for their weakness, and rightfully so.
> 
> Parental love is an entirely different beast than romantic love, btw.
> 
> ...



Actually a decent human being would pity such a person. Only an asshole would scorn them.

Or do you laugh at wives who get abused?


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## alchemy1234 (May 25, 2011)

Suckura isn't an idiot for still liking sasuke. The uchihas are that irresistible. Sasuke can make you his bitch, and kill your family, but you'd still be in love with him. I bet if sasuke killed suckuras mom and dad and destroyed konoha, she'd still love him. That is the might of the uchiha penis.

Suckura is still a stupid beyotch though.



Zaelapolopollo said:


> Actually a decent human being would pity such a person. Only an asshole would scorn them.
> 
> *Or do you laugh at wives who get abused?*


 incorrect comparison. Wives being abused have different reasons for staying with their abusive spouse. It could be to save the family etc. I wouldn't laugh at them, but I would laugh at someone who wanted to say go out with a person who tried to kill them, and I'd have no sympathy for them if something bad happened to them for making that silly decision. Unless of course the person is sasuke. The sauce is irresistible.


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## CrazyMoronX (May 25, 2011)

Sakura sucks. Typical manipulative bitch.


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## Seto Kaiba (May 25, 2011)

Zaelapolopollo said:


> Actually a decent human being would pity such a person. Only an asshole would scorn them.
> 
> Or do you laugh at wives who get abused?



I would pity a woman trapped in an abusive relationship, I'd scorn one that leaves and runs back to it of her own volition.


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## santanico (May 25, 2011)

I guess that makes Naruto an idiot as well.


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## sanji's left eye (May 25, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> It's not even about gender. No one in their right mind is gonna crawl back (well, it's not like she can crawl to something that wasn't there...) to someone that repeatedly tried to kill them, and even moreso, their friends.
> 
> Parental love is an entirely different beast than romantic love, btw.
> 
> ...


You would think the same about husbands that beat their wives consistently for years. The wives in many cases crawl right back to their husbands. The problem with the Narutoverse is that some things are not looked on as badly as they are in our world. Naruto/Sasuke are flinging deadly attacks at each other left and right in the VotE. Yet the two admit that they are best friends. Makes no sense to us but is just fine in their world.

Yeah it just depends on how deep the romantic love is to be able to comparable but due to the age and shallowness of the inidividual involved I agree that they cannot be compared.

Not really. I completely believe that she is an idiot. I am only saying that her emotions are not so uncommon.


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## Will Of Fire (May 25, 2011)

She was an idiot from the start.

She's like those women who get abused by their husbands but still return to them in the end. M perhaps?


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## Geralt of Rivia (May 25, 2011)

Sakura is the worst character in this manga. I like how the author constantly reminds us that she's intelligent, yet she's shown a great deal of idiocy.


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## Nyasi (May 25, 2011)

I like Sakura but I think she has developed some sort of mental illness. This makes no sense anymore.


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## Tonga1 (May 25, 2011)

detestable person indeed


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## MovingFlash415 (May 25, 2011)

1. I wouldn't call her an idiot.  You might notice, she *doesn't* look happy about still loving him.  In fact, she looks like she seriously wishes she didn't love him anymore.

2. Borderline Personality Disorder.  That's my guess.  That's right; she's got a mental illness and has since the very beginning.  Being crazy and being stupid are two very different things.

3. Consider the source.  If Kishimoto wants to make millions by advocating that young girls strive for abusive relationships, maybe we should boycott his manga.  Or at very least NOT introduce it to our kids.


There are a lot of women out there who return to their abusers.  They're looked down upon and scorned, even worse than their abusers sometimes.  Are you surprised, though?  Look at what you see on TV.  Look at the ads.  Girls are constantly being told that they have to look good enough for a guy, act like how a guy wants, be good enough and put out or he'll leave her for someone else.  How is that empowering?  Maybe these ladies feel like it's their obligation to "make it all better", to "make their relationships work", because they've been believing that it's all on them for so long.  Because they're TAUGHT TO.


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## Edward Newgate (May 25, 2011)

You know what the funniest part is? Kishi is probably still thinking that he's doing a good job with her character.


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## Will Of Fire (May 25, 2011)

To be fair same goes for Naruto. He wants to suck Sasuke's cock too. What's so great about that douche?


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## Crows (May 25, 2011)

MovingFlash415 said:


> 1. I wouldn't call her an idiot.  You might notice, she *doesn't* look happy about still loving him.  In fact, she looks like she seriously wishes she didn't love him anymore.
> 
> 2. Borderline Personality Disorder.  That's my guess.  That's right; she's got a mental illness and has since the very beginning.  Being crazy and being stupid are two very different things.
> 
> 3. Consider the source.  If Kishimoto wants to make millions by advocating that young girls strive for abusive relationships, maybe we should boycott his manga.  Or at very least NOT introduce it to our kids.



She always has the look when thinking about him. That sad "OMG" look. After about 540 chapters, she's not changing her mind. SAUCE or BUST for her.


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## Kyuubi Naruto (May 25, 2011)

son_michael said:


> I still want Naruto to be with her. It's a pairing that has been nicely developed in both part 1 and part 2, and Naruto loves her
> 
> though at this point, Naruto is just as bad as Sakura, the only difference is sakura isn't evil and trying to kill him


I don't care who Naruto is with honestly but I hope it's not Sakura with this mindset. It's degrading. And Naruto he at least is holding that back and manning up. He has a lot more in his favor and plotline than some silly Sakura feelings. 

It's pathetic.

At this point and time I get the feeling that Kishi is doing it on purpose so she can be looked bad upon. I mean there's no other way.


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## Zaelapolopollo (May 25, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> I would pity a woman trapped in an abusive relationship, I'd scorn one that leaves and runs back to it of her own volition.



Except Sakura hasn't run back to anything. She likes Sasuke and so what? She likes the good person he was in Part 1.

Thinking "I like Sasuke" is not the same as crawling back to Sasuke and begging him for his love like you were claiming.

What we have here is Sakura admitting she can't stop caring about him. That is all.


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## alchemy1234 (May 25, 2011)

Edward Newgate said:


> You know what the funniest part is? Kishi is probably still thinking that he's doing a good job with her character.



rofl sad but true.


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## Garfield (May 25, 2011)

100% Ichigo said:


> Sakura is the worst character in this manga. I like how the author constantly reminds us that she's intelligent, yet she's shown a great deal of idiocy.


We don't know what she was thinking when she pictured Sasuke, you're jumping to conclusions


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## Yagami1211 (May 25, 2011)

Will Of Fire said:


> To be fair same goes for Naruto. He wants to suck Sasuke's *cock* too. What's so *great* about that douche?





You gave yourself the answer.


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## ajinko (May 25, 2011)

love is crazy i guess........though iwouln't call sakura an idiot for loving sasuke. it reminds me of anakin and the princess. even though anakin went bad she still loved him. love is unconditional it doesn't need reason.


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## PikaCheeka (May 25, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> What are you talking about there's no way Sakura can be useful _and_ still have bad taste in men. Impossible!



Exactly. Sakura just did in under a minute what nobody else in the camp has been able to do thus far by using her wits as opposed to relying on her jutsu, yet everyone still chooses to focus on her love life.

If Sakura continues to "stupid pairing fodder", it's because people are ignoring everything else she does.

But carry on with the hating. Sakura only just passed on the intel that will save thousands, of lives but who cares? She's an idiot for loving who she loves.


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## Edward Newgate (May 25, 2011)

Will Of Fire said:


> To be fair same goes for Naruto. He wants to suck Sasuke's cock too. What's so great about that douche?


Atleast Naruto thinks that he and Sasuke are connected, lol.

You can conclude Sakura's relationship with Sasuke with him ignoring her existence, saved her onces or twice, left her and tried to kill her several times.

She's nothing like abusive wives. Atleast their husbands show some love to them at first, I guess.


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## Zaelapolopollo (May 25, 2011)

Vash wanted to redeem Knives.

Knives did so much worse than Sasuke it's really not even close.

Then again Trigun is a lot better written... 

But the point still stands, having faith and being unable to stop caring for someone are not the traits of complete idiots.


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## Judecious (May 25, 2011)

Kishi is just horrible.


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## Turrin (May 25, 2011)

Honestly I don't know why people are surprised by this.


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## alchemy1234 (May 25, 2011)

PikaCheeka said:


> Exactly. Sakura just did in under a minute what nobody else in the camp has been able to do thus far by using her wits as opposed to relying on her jutsu, yet everyone still chooses to focus on her love life.
> 
> If Sakura continues to "stupid pairing fodder", it's because people are ignoring everything else she does.
> 
> But carry on with the hating. *Sakura only just passed on the intel that will save thousands, of lives but who cares?* She's an idiot for loving who she loves.



who cares about the lives of fodders.


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## Seto Kaiba (May 25, 2011)

sanji's left eye said:


> You would think the same about husbands that beat their wives consistently for years. The wives in many cases crawl right back to their husbands. The problem with the Narutoverse is that some things are not looked on as badly as they are in our world. Naruto/Sasuke are flinging deadly attacks at each other left and right in the VotE. Yet the two admit that they are best friends. Makes no sense to us but is just fine in their world.



Before I start. I hate the Naruto/Sasuke thing...that stated, Naruto and Sasuke is an entirely different situation from Sasuke and Sakura. For starters, Naruto just wishes to be Sasuke's friend again. While I do feel at this point, it's pathetic as well, it is very different from any romantic prospects. Also, Naruto is trying to *re*-establish a bond. They had a strong connection before Sasuke's turn, and mutually agreed that they were each other's best friend.

Sakura and Sasuke on the other hand, while she loved him, he didn't reciprocate those feelings. Even before his turn, it's clear that he had the weakest bond with her. The thing about where I'd assume Sakura wants things to go, she'd have to establish something that wasn't even there during Team 7's best days and with one that showed no interest in taking things further during those times. All that is moot though considering that he is one that tried to take her life. 

Narutoverse is a very different world, but it's hard to think of any couple that wasn't strongly emphasized to be a loving, functional, and no-killing relationship...



> Yeah it just depends on how deep the romantic love is to be able to comparable but due to the age and shallowness of the inidividual involved I agree that they cannot be compared.
> 
> Not really. I completely believe that she is an idiot. I am only saying that her emotions are not so uncommon.



Well, yeah.

Sadly...


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## ch1p (May 25, 2011)

First, people can't change their feelings by sheer will of thinking they are wrong and need to go. She's a teenager too. What can you possibly expect.

Second, Sakura never accepted his darkness. If the sad panel in this chapter or FOD isn't enough, then remember she tried to kill him just a few chapters ago. She certainly doesn't want the crazy Sasuke.

Third, Sakura also knows that he's a threat to Naruto, herself and the village. This was also demonstrated by her trying to kill him.

These three points prove that she's not an idiot. That she can separate her feelings from the reality and she won't sugar coat it either. Sakura isn't a domestic violence victim wannabe either and those who think this is the case, are heavily downplaying what that is like.



PikaCheeka said:


> She's a real idiot, isn't she?
> 
> Never mind the fact that she solved the Zetsu case, we should instead focus on her love life. That was the central point of the chapter, after all.



.


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## Garfield (May 25, 2011)

alchemy1234 said:


> who cares about the lives of fodders.


And you are passing moral judgments on others


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## PikaCheeka (May 25, 2011)

alchemy1234 said:


> who cares about the lives of fodders.



Oh that's right. People will always find a way to prove that she is a worthless idiot. How could I be so naive?


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## santanico (May 25, 2011)

Zaelapolopollo said:


> Vash wanted to redeem Knives.
> 
> Knives did so much worse than Sasuke it's really not even close.
> 
> ...



Yep. Good anime, good reference


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## Seto Kaiba (May 25, 2011)

Zaelapolopollo said:


> Except Sakura hasn't run back to anything. She likes Sasuke and so what? She likes the good person he was in Part 1.
> 
> Thinking "I like Sasuke" is not the same as crawling back to Sasuke and begging him for his love like you were claiming.
> 
> What we have here is Sakura admitting she can't stop caring about him. That is all.



It's one thing to simply care, it's another to cling to romantic feelings, and possibly prospects of romance. Especially with an individual that just tried to kill you. There's really no defense for it, it makes her character look bad. It only emphasizes what I already knew and that's her feelings for Sasuke are ultimately going to overshadow anything she does, which is why it'd be good for her character to get over them. Not stop caring, but let go of the romantic prospects.


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## ShadowReij (May 25, 2011)

My only question is this, people really thought this as a surprise? Really?


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## Supa Swag (May 25, 2011)

Man I can never get enough of how awful a character Kishimoto has created. Worst main female I've ever seen, no doubt. And that takes some SERIOUS SKILL considering Eba Yuzuki of Kimi no Iru Machi exists.

This crap is par for the course though. You would think having thoughts of someone you love would empower you, but it seems that outside of one, two instances every time Sakura thinks of Sasuke she turns into this miserable  useless "woe is me why do cause me pain sasukey-koon" sack of shit. It's funny when you compare that to Naruto, who is just as pathetic in his desire for Sasuke but he will usually use that desire to train harder and gain more power. Hell it's hilarious when you compare to Hinata this chapter who's doing whatever it takes to do her part in making sure Naruto is safe.

Not Sakura though. Nope just "bwehahbooboo im so useless i'll just wait for bestfreind-zone Naruto to bring back my one tru luvb  n everyone will be  hapy yay like a fairy tale!!!"


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## son_michael (May 25, 2011)

Kyuubi Naruto said:


> I don't care who Naruto is with honestly but I hope it's not Sakura with this mindset. It's degrading. And Naruto he at least is holding that back and manning up. He has a lot more in his favor and plotline than some silly Sakura feelings.
> 
> It's pathetic.
> 
> At this point and time I get the feeling that Kishi is doing it on purpose so she can be looked bad upon. I mean there's no other way.




Yeah Sakura needs to get her shit together and beg Naruto to forgive her for being so blind and stupid, before there is even a remote chance of the two ending up together. I certainly would never consent to being with someone who doesn't really love me. 

And yes, Kishi has always said Sakura is a flawed character, I guess kishi is using Sasuke as a means to convey just how pathetic she really is.


----------



## aiyanah (May 25, 2011)

sakura is just an idiot
plain and simple


----------



## Edward Newgate (May 25, 2011)

PikaCheeka said:


> Oh that's right. People will always find a way to prove that she is a worthless idiot. How could I be so naive?


So Sakura now is a genius because she figured out that it's not the real Neji?

Remember that she only figured it out because Zetsu doesn't even know Tonton. What if it was "X from Kumo twisted his legs..." instead of Tonton? Sakura could've been bleeding to death with a kunai stuck in her throat.


----------



## Zaelapolopollo (May 25, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> It's one thing to simply care, it's another to cling to romantic feelings, and possibly prospects of romance. Especially with an individual that just tried to kill you. There's really no defense for it, it makes her character look bad. It only emphasizes what I already knew and that's her feelings for Sasuke are ultimately going to overshadow anything she does, which is why it'd be good for her character to get over them. Not stop caring, but let go of the romantic prospects.



Well yeah, I can agree with that. I'd much prefer her skills to be what defines her and not her love for Sasuke.


----------



## alchemy1234 (May 25, 2011)

adee said:


> And you are passing moral judgments on others



of course


----------



## Seto Kaiba (May 25, 2011)

Zaelapolopollo said:


> Vash wanted to redeem Knives.
> 
> Knives did so much worse than Sasuke it's really not even close.
> 
> ...



That would be a more apt comparison to Naruto and Sasuke, not Sakura and Sasuke.

Trigun is better though, agreed on that...


----------



## ? (May 25, 2011)

Yeah, Sakura is the most pathetic character in the manga.


----------



## Garfield (May 25, 2011)

Edward Newgate said:


> So Sakura now is a genius because she figured out that it's not the real Neji?
> 
> Remember that she only figured it out because Zetsu doesn't even know Tonton. What if it was "X from Kumo twisted his legs..." instead of Tonton? Sakura could've been bleeding to death with a kunai stuck in her throat.


Yeah all logics are simple as fuck in deduction but try inducing them sometime.


----------



## Phertt (May 25, 2011)

This was the first time I can remember that I actually found myself rolling my eyes at the first page of a chapter of a manga.

Seriously, what a great way to start the chapter- actual confirmation that rather than honestly coming to any semblance of reason and logic in regard to choosing a love interest, Sakura lied to Naruto's face. 
She is still obsessed with Sasuke who by this point everyone whether or not they are a fan, acknowledges as being batshit fucking insane.

Just wow.


----------



## Zen-aku (May 25, 2011)

I wish sakura would stop acting like the bitch from twilight....


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## Zaelapolopollo (May 25, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> That would be a more apt comparison to Naruto and Sasuke, not Sakura and Sasuke.
> 
> Trigun is better though, agreed on that...



Naruto is too fucking stupid and lame to be compared to Vash.

Whatever Sakura's faults, I'd still take her over Naruto any day of the week.


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## mayumi (May 25, 2011)

you  mean to say almost all the fangulz in the manga love pretty little sasuke-kun. then correct. not in real life. i pray there are not many pathetic girls like sakura in this world.


----------



## AceBizzle (May 25, 2011)

PikaCheeka said:


> Exactly. Sakura just did in under a minute what nobody else in the camp has been able to do thus far by using her wits as opposed to relying on her jutsu, yet everyone still chooses to focus on her love life.
> 
> If Sakura continues to "stupid pairing fodder", it's because people are ignoring everything else she does.
> 
> But carry on with the hating. Sakura only just passed on the intel that will save thousands, of lives but who cares? She's an idiot for loving who she loves.



The Sakura hate is too strong!


----------



## Seto Kaiba (May 25, 2011)

What's grating (or at least should be) is that she's Kishi's idea of a "realistic girl".


----------



## Garfield (May 25, 2011)

mayumi said:


> you  mean to say almost all the fangulz in the manga love pretty little sasuke-kun. then correct. not in real life. i pray there are not many pathetic girls like sakura in this world.


I see all of Sakura's characteristics all the time in women (AND men) ... dunno what you're talking about


----------



## alchemy1234 (May 25, 2011)

PikaCheeka said:


> Oh that's right. People will always find a way to prove that she is a worthless idiot. How could I be so naive?



well, a sasuke hater could easily say, that when sakura had the chance to take sasuke down she didn't. Not to mention she offered to go to orochimaru with him (granted that was in pt. 1 though). However if the higher ups in konoha found out they wouldn't be too happy about it.

Even if she proves to be useful in battle or in helping save thousands of lives, people would still call her an idiot for liking someone who nearly killed her. This way she wouldn't be useless but she'd simply be an idiot when it comes to her private life.

Another interesting possibility arises now though. Could she due to her idiocy be manipulated by sasuke at some point? If yes, then she'd be a worthless idiot as her achievement of saving thousands of people could be offset by possibly giving the enemy an advantage. Of course this hasn't happened yet, so people can knock sakura for it. BUT if it does happen, sakura fans are never going to hear the end of it.


----------



## Bender (May 25, 2011)

If beating chicks is the key to making them love you then damn maybe I should try that. One of my stalking bitches may have something going unlike Sakura's big foreheaded ass.


----------



## santanico (May 25, 2011)

She's an idiot for falling in love with the wrong guy, damn


----------



## Sagitta (May 25, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> For a more familiar example, It's like if Rihanna ran back to Chris Brown after he beat her. Except in this case the love she had for him wouldn't be reciprocal, and he was trying to kill her.



Hahaha yeah, thats retarded. Oh well, Naru-Saku fans are almost as pathetic thinking that whole things gonna turn out. God.. I hope I don't eat my words...
NARU-HINA! NARU-HINA! NARU-HINA!


----------



## Fay (May 25, 2011)

Her love is a curse though, isn't it? Loving someone who couldn't care less about you and even worse: tried to kill you twice... It's a clear punishment and a curse.


----------



## sanji's left eye (May 25, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Before I start. I hate the Naruto/Sasuke thing...that stated, Naruto and Sasuke is an entirely different situation from Sasuke and Sakura. For starters, Naruto just wishes to be Sasuke's friend again. While I do feel at this point, it's pathetic as well, it is very different from any romantic prospects. Also, Naruto is trying to *re*-establish a bond. They had a strong connection before Sasuke's turn, and mutually agreed that they were each other's best friend.
> 
> Sakura and Sasuke on the other hand, while she loved him, he didn't reciprocate those feelings. Even before his turn, it's clear that he had the weakest bond with her. The thing about where I'd assume Sakura wants things to go, she'd have to establish something that wasn't even there during Team 7's best days and with one that showed no interest in taking things further during those times. All that is moot though considering that he is one that tried to take her life.
> 
> Narutoverse is a very different world, but it's hard to think of any couple that wasn't strongly emphasized to be a loving, functional, and no-killing relationship...



I am not so much comparing the dynamics of the relationships as I am the world in which they live and the world in which we live. A world in which Naruto/Sasuke can openly use killing moves against each other but still consider each other best friends. If they can still be best friends in this crazy ass world, I do not see why Sakura can't still have feelings for Sasuke. And as I said about domestic violence earlier. That can be translated into murder attempts in their world (sounds crazy to me too. Blame Kishi's inability to write relationships well if you'd like). Her getting abused does not stop her from loving him.

I see what you are saying here. You may be able to understand more if they had a relationship prior to his defection, right? I do not believe a two way love is necessary for her to feel what she feels. Hell she is an emotional 16 year old. She may just take any little thing from Sasuke (like his one thank you) as a declaration of love. Bitch crazy I know. Honestly I am not disputing her idiocy just that there is an equivelance in our world.

Honestly we both believe she is an idiot. You can respond if you want of course (I know I don't need to tell you that) but I probably am done here.


----------



## Edward Newgate (May 25, 2011)

adee said:


> Yeah all logics are simple as fuck in deduction but try inducing them sometime.


"We should be on guard, the enemy might be among us!"
"I know, right?"
"Anyway, where's Shizune?"
"She's treating Tonton, she twisted her leg."
"I hope she will be able to fight again! Better a leg injury than an arm injury"

They, that would be SO hard to figure out


----------



## alchemy1234 (May 25, 2011)

adee said:


> I see all of Sakura's characteristics all the time in women (AND men) ... dunno what you're talking about


nah mate. From what i've noticed (and i may be wrong here), teenage girls generally seem to be very obsessive fans (case in point, selena gomez is apparently getting death threats for going out with bieber). However, if someone they have a crush on commits murder or tries to kill them, i'm pretty sure they'd move on and not obsess over that person. Sakura from a real world perspective has broken all bounds of sanity. IRL if someone like her were to exist she'd be quite pathetic.



Starr said:


> She's an idiot for falling in love with the wrong guy, damn



 there is a difference between falling in love with the wrong guy, or being in love with someone who -
(a) never reciprocated those feelings of love even after God knows how many years of you trying
(b) tried to kill you without blinking
(c) nearly killed someone who had been an ally for quite a while before your eyes

again irl sakura is a dumb bitch.


----------



## MasterSitsu (May 25, 2011)

son_michael said:


> *Yeah Sakura needs to get her shit together and beg Naruto to forgive her for being so blind and stupid*, before there is even a remote chance of the two ending up together. I certainly would never consent to being with someone who doesn't really love me.
> 
> And yes, Kishi has always said Sakura is a flawed character, I guess kishi is using Sasuke as a means to convey just how pathetic she really is.



this is a joke right 

With all the things wrong with Sakura Getting together with Naruto is the only thing important with her character. Now that is Pathetic


----------



## Garfield (May 25, 2011)

Edward Newgate said:


> "We should be on guard, the enemy might be among us!"
> "I know, right?"
> "Anyway, where's Shizune?"
> "She's treating Tonton, she twisted her leg."
> ...


And a regular reply from a "stupid" person as you are calling her would be something like:

"Oh Neji san I said Tonton, he's a pig, hehe!" ^_^

but she didn't and went for confirmation of her suspicions. If Zetsu fucked up here, he fucked up at other places too considering he was everywhere. Only Sakura was able to keep her mind even during war and physical strain (which drastically reduces mental capability)


----------



## Supa Swag (May 25, 2011)

I do like how Kishimoto had her take down some dumb ass fodder zetsu clone, like that's supposed to make up for everything.

Doesn't really change the fact that she turns into worthless piece of crap when she thinks of Sasuke. I find it strange that people mostly ignore this and decide to go after her loving Sasuke period (supporters and detractors both).


----------



## Tonga1 (May 25, 2011)

MovingFlash415 said:


> 1. I wouldn't call her an idiot.  You might notice, she *doesn't* look happy about still loving him.  In fact, she looks like she seriously wishes she didn't love him anymore.
> 
> 2. Borderline Personality Disorder.  That's my guess.  That's right; she's got a mental illness and has since the very beginning.  Being crazy and being stupid are two very different things.
> 
> ...


----------



## Garfield (May 25, 2011)

alchemy1234 said:


> nah mate. From what i've noticed (and i may be wrong here), teenage girls generally seem to be very obsessive fans (case in point, selena gomez is apparently getting death threats for going out with bieber). However, if someone they have a crush on commits murder or tries to kill them, i'm pretty sure they'd move on and not obsess over that person. Sakura from a real world perspective has broken all bounds of sanity. IRL if someone like her were to exist she'd be quite pathetic.


But there's a big assumption everyone's making in the axiom that Sakura is still obsessing over Sasuke  romantically. She just pictured him, we don't know under what thought process, why give hatred the benefit of doubt (contrary to recent evidence that her feelings have been turning towards Naruto) and assume she's stupid?


----------



## mayumi (May 25, 2011)

adee said:


> I see all of Sakura's characteristics all the time in women (AND men) ... dunno what you're talking about



i am sad you meet those kinds of people then. girls with no sense of self-respect.


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## MasterSitsu (May 25, 2011)

It could of been worse she could of been a damsel in distress and needed to be saved. I assume some Sakura fans are happy about that right.


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## Summers (May 25, 2011)

Lets have a Sakura bashing thread EVERY chapter she appears! 

Getting vital information to the HQ, Beating down a Zetsu, Using her head to trick it. Tsk Still Stupid.

Who cares about that, she had a sasuke flashback, she still likes him. Unacceptable.


----------



## Geralt of Rivia (May 25, 2011)

Have we considered that Sakura could perhaps be a masochist?


----------



## Chaelius (May 25, 2011)

MasterSitsu said:


> this is a joke right



No, this is shipping


----------



## alchemy1234 (May 25, 2011)

adee said:


> But there's a big assumption everyone's making in the axiom that Sakura is still obsessing over Sasuke  romantically. She just pictured him, we don't know under what thought process, why give hatred the benefit of doubt (contrary to recent evidence that her feelings have been turning towards Naruto) and assume she's stupid?



Well, its only natural for people to make that link. Nin asks if shed like to go out. Sakura says no I already have someone i like. Nin says guy must be great. Sakura pictures sasuke and makes a sad expression. What else is a person to infer from this exchange? dont get me wrong i love the sauce, but its kinda easy to make the case for sakura being an idiot if you know what i mean...


----------



## Garfield (May 25, 2011)

mayumi said:


> i am sad you meet those kinds of people then. girls with no sense of self-respect.


1. Sakura the character has shown as much self respect as anyone else
2. I'm pretty sure that if you told me your life story I can find parallels in you as her. I KNOW that I can find in mine and my life has been pretty good so far


----------



## PikaCheeka (May 25, 2011)

mayumi said:


> i am sad you meet those kinds of people then. girls with no sense of self-respect.



You've never met anyone who loved someone who didn't appear to care about them and even treated them badly in the past? You must live in an AU.


----------



## Edward Newgate (May 25, 2011)

summers said:


> Lets have a Sakura bashing thread EVERY chapter she appears!
> 
> Getting vital information to the HQ, Beating down a Zetsu, Using her head to trick it. Tsk Still Stupid.
> 
> Who cares about that, she had a sasuke flashback, she still likes him. Unacceptable.


They already knew about the information, lol. And who cares about her taking out a Zetsu? Fodder #654 and fodder #667 did the same.



> And a regular reply from a "stupid" person as you are calling her would be something like:
> 
> "Oh Neji san I said Tonton, he's a pig, hehe!" ^_^
> 
> but she didn't and went for confirmation of her suspicions. If Zetsu fucked up here, he fucked up at other places too considering he was everywhere. Only Sakura was able to keep her mind even during war and physical strain (which drastically reduces mental capability)


Okay, you're right about that.


----------



## Jin-E (May 25, 2011)

People being butthurt over a fictional characters crush? Lol.

If Sakura hadn't regained her faith in Sasuke's redemption by Naruto in the Kage arc, then she would have most likely moved on. Sure, it would have been painful but she would have concluded he was a lost cause. However, the small cracks Sasuke showed then convinced her otherwise. When you look in story, Sakura has personally witnessed Naruto influencing Neji, Gaara and Sai to become completely different persons from their old selfs, developing new goals and interests. She might argue "If it happened to them, why not Sasuke?"

That said, i think its pretty obvious that Sakura will wait with making any sort of romantic overtures until Sasuke has regained emotional stability.  

IF Kishi wants to go that road, then Naruto's pseudo brolove and Sakura's romantic love would be key elements to reform Sasuke from the incarnation of hate that he is now. While not being a SasuSaku fan, some parts of it would appeal to me, seeing as Sasuke's change would be a REAL Team 7 effort, instead of a Naruto solo effort.


----------



## CrazyAries (May 25, 2011)

Edward Newgate said:


> You know what the funniest part is? Kishi is probably still thinking that he's doing a good job with her character.



That or he just hates her...or both. 

One important thing is that Sakura does not seem comfortable with the fact that she still loves Sasuke.  When she told the love nin that she loved someone else, it was less about her hopes for romance with Sasuke and more about letting the nin down gently.  What would be gentler, telling someone point blank that you are not interested, or saying that there is someone else?

Of course, Sakura could have said this:  "Have you heard of this man called Kishimoto?  I am what he considers to be a heroine and a 'realistic girl. "  That fodder would have run away so fast, that he would have injured himself all over again.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (May 25, 2011)

PikaCheeka said:


> You've never met anyone who loved someone who didn't appear to care about them and even treated them badly in the past? You must live in an AU.



I have, and they aren't inspiring stories...


----------



## ch1p (May 25, 2011)

alchemy1234 said:


> Could she due to her idiocy be manipulated by sasuke at some point?



No. Sasuke told her to kill Karin in exchange for going wtih him, but she refused and prepared herself to go through her plan of killing him instead.



summers said:


> Lets have a Sakura bashing thread EVERY chapter she appears!
> 
> Getting vital information to the HQ, Beating down a Zetsu, Using her head to trick it. Tsk Still Stupid.
> 
> *Who cares about that, she had a sasuke flashback, she still likes him. Unacceptable.*



For some, Sakura's romantic feelings is all her character is important for. Which is sad shit to think about, pros and antis alike.


----------



## Garfield (May 25, 2011)

alchemy1234 said:


> Well, its only natural for people to make that link. Nin asks if shed like to go out. Sakura says no I already have someone i like. Nin says guy must be great. Sakura pictures sasuke and makes a sad expression. What else is a person to infer from this exchange? dont get me wrong i love the sauce, but its kinda easy to make the case for sakura being an idiot if you know what i mean...


Yes, but I always find in situations that context is everything. If this nin had asked her the same thing while both of them hanging around in a sunny chirpy morning with spring all around, then I would have been more inclined to make that assumption, but the circumstances here are different. The nin is making a dramatic childish proclamation (mind you I'm not faulting him) in midst of a damn war, one of the reasons of which is Sasuke, and on top of that all, she remembers Sasuke in a not so loving manner, which leads me to assume that something else is going on in her mind


----------



## Supa Swag (May 25, 2011)

Jin-E said:


> IF Kishi wants to go that road, then Naruto's pseudo brolove and Sakura's romantic love would be key elements to reform Sasuke from the incarnation of hate that he is now. While not being a SasuSaku fan, some parts of it would appeal to me, seeing as Sasuke's change would be a REAL Team 7 effort, instead of a Naruto solo effort.



We all have read this series. Deep down we ALL know this will be a Naruto solo effort (well not entirely solo, Itachi too since he's the only other person that Sasuke actually gives a shit about). Sakura's giving up and putting it all on Naruto's shoulders in the Kage Summit arc suggests as much, as well as...the rest of the manga.


----------



## alchemy1234 (May 25, 2011)

adee said:


> Yes, but I always find in situations that context is everything. If this nin had asked her the same thing while both of them hanging around in a sunny chirpy morning with spring all around, then I would have been more inclined to make that assumption, but the circumstances here are different. The nin is making a dramatic childish proclamation (mind you I'm not faulting him) in midst of a damn war, one of the reasons of which is Sasuke, and on top of that all, she remembers Sasuke in a not so loving manner, which leads me to assume that something else is going on in her mind



well i guess it becomes a matter of interpretation them. Personally I feel the one i'm making is a lot more direct and obvious. Of course i cant prove it is, but thats what I feel kishi was trying to portray.


----------



## PikaCheeka (May 25, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> I have, and they aren't inspiring stories...



I said nothing as to whether or not they were.

The person I was responding to was implying that s/he had never met people in situations like that, which is ridiculous.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (May 25, 2011)

Ch1p said:


> For some, Sakura's romantic feelings is all her character is important for. Which is sad shit to think about, pros and antis alike.



You're getting it wrong. It's like the anchor the keeps a ship from sailing so to speak. Her feelings for Sasuke only serve to degrade her character, they're gonna overshadow whatever she does because as soon as Sasuke gets back in the picture, people are gonna see and be reminded of how and why they think she is a pathetic character.


----------



## Garfield (May 25, 2011)

alchemy1234 said:


> well i guess it becomes a matter of interpretation them. Personally I feel the one i'm making is a lot more direct and obvious. Of course i cant prove it is, but thats what I feel kishi was trying to portray.


I'm not putting it past Kishi to ignore the following statement but:

What's most direct and obvious in a complicated situation is probably not the right direction

cliche and all, but I'm a believer of that assumption.


----------



## MovingFlash415 (May 25, 2011)

alchemy1234 said:


> nah mate. From what i've noticed (and i may be wrong here), teenage girls generally seem to be very obsessive fans (case in point, selena gomez is apparently getting death threats for going out with bieber). However, if someone they have a crush on commits murder or tries to kill them, i'm pretty sure they'd move on and not obsess over that person. Sakura from a real world perspective has broken all bounds of sanity. IRL if someone like her were to exist she'd be quite pathetic.



There are a lot of people IRL with mental illnesses that cause them to be in places that really aren't healthy to be.  Not that it helps matters that girls are taught that if they don't do X-Y-Z, guys won't like them or worse yet, the guy they're with will certainly leave them for someone else.  How many guys do you know who fret over not looking like those guys in pornography, versus girls, for example?  Props to the strong women out there who do NOT feel bound by stupid TV-induced standards.


----------



## alchemy1234 (May 25, 2011)

Jin-E said:


> People being butthurt over a fictional characters crush? Lol.
> 
> If Sakura hadn't regained her faith in Sasuke's redemption by Naruto in the Kage arc, then she would have most likely moved on. Sure, it would have been painful but she would have concluded he was a lost cause. However, the small cracks Sasuke showed then convinced her otherwise. When you look in story, Sakura has personally witnessed Naruto influencing Neji, Gaara and Sai to become completely different persons from their old selfs, developing new goals and interests. She might argue "If it happened to them, why not Sasuke?"
> 
> ...



Yes, but people call naruto and sakura idiots for actually expecting the sauce to reform. This is because irl someone who has gone in that direction is not going to make a roundabout turn and change, at least not after going so far. 

Sasuke will redeem himself, that much is given - we the readers know that, but sakura or naruto in all honesty shouldn't be expecting this sort of change. More so, being romantically inclined towards someone who tried to kill you is ya know.... kinda psychotic. Influencing neji and gaara was different. It didn't take as much effort as it is taking to influence sasuke.

Also the older you grow the slimmer the chances of you changing become imo. Neji and gaara were still influenced in their formative years. Heck to me it felt like they were almost waiting to be convinced. Sasuke is different though.


----------



## ch1p (May 25, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> You're getting it wrong. It's like the anchor the keeps a ship from sailing so to speak. Her feelings for Sasuke only serve to degrade her character, they're gonna overshadow whatever she does because as soon as Sasuke gets back in the picture, people are gonna see and be reminded of how and why they think she is a pathetic character.



Not for me or for people who like her past her romantic shenenigans. There's more to her than whoever she has a crush on. I won't stop liking Sakura if she falls out of love for the Sauce and loves Naruto for all her might. I'll be disappointed because I had different views, but I won't like her any less.

However, I understand that some have difficulty in tracing that particular line. That's what my comment was for.


----------



## Drums (May 25, 2011)

I agree that SS romance is nowhere near healthy but let's be honest with ourselves, fandom, would we still make such a fuss out of it if it was healthy? No. Romance sells. Unhealthy romance sells even more( i*c*st, angst, illegal, etc). You can keep on nagging about it whilst Kishi makes business.
Sakura just happened to be the victim of such a writing method, albeit a bit of a bad choice from Kishi's side since she's a main and its not even shoujo or anything related to it. Still, it made its impact(doesnt matter if negative or positive as that the impact is strong) on the fandom and I am sure Kishi is satisfied with it.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (May 25, 2011)

Ch1p said:


> Not for me or for people who like her past her romantic shenenigans. There's more to her than whoever she has a crush on.
> 
> However, I understand that some have difficulty in tracing that particular line. That's what my comment was for.



Those were disgusting. Worst aspects of her character.


----------



## gabzilla (May 25, 2011)

alchemy1234 said:


> nah mate. From what i've noticed (and i may be wrong here), teenage girls generally seem to be very obsessive fans (case in point, selena gomez is apparently getting death threats for going out with bieber). However, if someone they have a crush on commits murder or tries to kill them, i'm pretty sure they'd move on and not obsess over that person. Sakura from a real world perspective has broken all bounds of sanity. IRL if someone like her were to exist she'd be quite pathetic.



Because everybody knows obsessive fans only come in a female package.


----------



## Supa Swag (May 25, 2011)

Ch1p said:


> Not for me or for people who like her past her romantic shenenigans. *There's more to her than whoever she has a crush on*.



No offense, but this is kinda funny. I'm certainly not laughing at supporters, but more so the situation since Kishimoto most likely disagrees with you considering how he's developed her.


----------



## shyakugaun (May 25, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> For a more familiar example, It's like if Rihanna ran back to Chris Brown after he beat her. Except in this case the love she had for him wouldn't be reciprocal, and he was trying to kill her.



you do realise she tried to kill him 1st ?


----------



## alchemy1234 (May 25, 2011)

MovingFlash415 said:


> There are a lot of people IRL with mental illnesses that cause them to be in places that really aren't healthy to be.  Not that it helps matters that girls are taught that if they don't do X-Y-Z, guys won't like them or worse yet, the guy they're with will certainly leave them for someone else.  How many guys do you know who fret over not looking like those guys in pornography, versus girls, for example?  Props to the strong women out there who do NOT feel bound by stupid TV-induced standards.



I agree with you. There is however a difference in real world unhealthy and the type of unhealthy shown here. IMO it wouldn't be easy to find instances of women who were romantically inclined towards someone who tried to kill them. You could say sakuras case is a very extreme example of what happens irl, and that is why people verbally thrash her every single week. To say the very least for a main character and future legendary shinobi she doesn't seem to be very strong emotionally or rational for that matter. That is why people get pissed off. They expect something better from someone who is supposed to turn out to be something big in the future.


----------



## lucky (May 25, 2011)

quite honestly though, kishimoto is horrible at writing romance.  i mean, look at the real couples.  like asuma and kurenai.  god what a boring pairing. 

he's no good at giving characters chemistry.


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## AKmyWaffle (May 25, 2011)

Yeah... women loving assholes, that's something groundbreaking...


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## alchemy1234 (May 25, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> *Because everybody knows obsessive fans only come in a female package.*



Way to go and twist what i said. that was a general statement, i'm sure you have male fans who stalk their idols etc. but on a large scale from my observation female fangirls tend to be a lot more vocal about who they like. I haven't really come across news of 13 year olds sending death threats to some guy dating whichever female teen idol they have a crush on. Again i said its from my observation, which may be correct or wrong. They grow out of the fangirly stage relatively quickly though.

also its interesting that you bought in the "obsessive fans ONLY come in female packages" bit, when I never said anything that suggests male fans are not obsessive.


----------



## Norngpinky (May 25, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> You're getting it wrong. It's like the anchor the keeps a ship from sailing so to speak. Her feelings for Sasuke only serve to degrade her character, they're gonna overshadow whatever she does because as soon as Sasuke gets back in the picture, people are gonna see and be reminded of how and why they think she is a pathetic character.



Hope you feel the same about Naruto. Apparently, he isn't giving up on Sasuke either. In fact, he IS still trying after multiple murder attempts from Sasuke as well. No matter whether Sakura's feelings for Sasuke are romantic feelings, Naruto's feelings for Sauce could be say are just strong (more or less), though minus the romantic part.


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## ch1p (May 25, 2011)

Supa Swag said:


> No offense, but this is kinda funny. I'm certainly not laughing at supporters, but more so the situation since Kishimoto most likely disagrees with you considering how he's developed her.



Yes because half a page where she duels upon Sasuke-kun and where she shows nothing relevant to plot > half a dozen pages where she A) suspects what others did not and outwits an enemy B) overpowers a Zetsu clone in _one move_ C) figures out the whole conspiracy thanks to her knowledge and intelligence. Kishi doesn't develop her at all besides her feelings for the sauce. Continue laughing. I'll start my own round of giggling at your inability to look at shit that truly matters.


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## gabzilla (May 25, 2011)

alchemy1234 said:


> Way to go and twist what i said. that was a general statement, i'm sure you have male fans who stalk their idols etc. but on a large scale from my observation female fangirls tend to be a lot more vocal about who they like. *I haven't really come across news of 13 year olds sending death threats to some guy dating whichever female teen idol they have a crush on.* Again i said its from my observation, which may be correct or wrong. They grow out of the fangirly stage relatively quickly though.





You do realize that at least half the people arguing in this thread are _male_, right?


----------



## Seto Kaiba (May 25, 2011)

Ch1p said:


> Yes because half a page where she duels upon Sasuke-kun and where she shows nothing relevant to plot > half a dozen pages where she A) suspects what others did not and outwits an enemy B) overpowers a Zetsu clone in _one move_ C) figures out the whole conspiracy thanks to her knowledge and intelligence. Kishi doesn't develop her at all besides her feelings for the sauce. Continue laughing. I'll start my own round of giggling at your inability to look at shit that truly matters.



alchemy actually put it quite correctly. Furthermore, my point that Sasuke's feelings tie her character down and really overshadow whatever positive aspects her character may possess.


----------



## ch1p (May 25, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> alchemy actually put it quite correctly. Furthermore, my point that Sasuke's feelings tie her character down and really overshadow whatever positive aspects her character may possess.



But that is the problem here. You POV isn't letting you guys see what Sakura is beyond Sasuke. As a SasuSaku fan, I was kind of happy for the first page, but hell _I wouldn't trade the six that follow where she kicks arse_ for anything. You guys say that it overshadows. For me it doesn't.


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## Seto Kaiba (May 25, 2011)

Norngpinky said:


> Hope you feel the same about Naruto. Apparently, he isn't giving up on Sasuke either. In fact, he IS still trying after multiple murder attempts from Sasuke as well. No matter whether Sakura's feelings for Sasuke are romantic feelings, Naruto's feelings for Sauce could be say are just strong (more or less), though minus the romantic part.



That's so desperate, why do you immediately jump to Sasuke/Naruto? 

I hate what the Sasuke situation has done to Naruto's character, but it's bullshit to act like the situation is the same with Sasuke and Naruto as it is with Sasuke and Sakura, it's not. Trying to claim it is only reflects desperation and extremely poor grasp on what the story has been beating us over the head with for years.


----------



## Jin-E (May 25, 2011)

alchemy1234 said:


> Yes, but people call naruto and sakura idiots for actually expecting the sauce to reform. This is because irl someone who has gone in that direction is not going to make a roundabout turn and change, at least not after going so far.



In any other other manga i would agree with you, but in this one? Come on, how many people have commented on Naruto's ability to influence peoples hearts? And Sakura is clearly a believer in his TnJ powers. Sure its unrealistic strictly from a rational standpoint but not in the Naruto universe. I think she clearly noticed Sasuke's immediate change in behaviour when Naruto talked to him during the Kage arc, which bolstered her wavering faith. 



			
				alchemy1234 said:
			
		

> Sasuke will redeem himself, that much is given - we the readers know that, but sakura or naruto in all honesty shouldn't be expecting this sort of change. More so, being romantically inclined towards someone who tried to kill you is ya know.... kinda psychotic. Influencing neji and gaara was different. It didn't take as much effort as it is taking to influence sasuke.



Sure, but a major theme in this manga is that you cant succesfully cut of your bonds, even under such extreme circumstances.



			
				alchemy1234 said:
			
		

> Also the older you grow the slimmer the chances of you changing become imo. Neji and gaara were still influenced in their formative years. Heck to me it felt like they were almost waiting to be convinced. Sasuke is different though.



True. 

Though Gaara and Neji's problems were also resolved immediatedly after their Karma smackdown and they mutually reconciled with the people they had a grudge against. Sasuke's issues still lingered over the years and weren't resolved, which allowed it to brew out of control.



Supa Swag said:


> We all have read this series. Deep down we ALL know this will be a Naruto solo effort (well not entirely solo, Itachi too since he's the only other person that Sasuke actually gives a shit about). Sakura's giving up and putting it all on Naruto's shoulders in the Kage Summit arc suggests as much, as well as...the rest of the manga.



Unfortunately, you are most likely correct.


----------



## NarutoIzDaMan (May 25, 2011)

son_michael said:


> I still want Naruto to be with her. It's a pairing that has been nicely developed in both part 1 and part 2, and Naruto loves her
> 
> 
> though at this point, Naruto is just as bad as Sakura, the only difference is sakura isn't evil and trying to kill him



I've supported Narusaku for almost 2 years now because they DO have the most "positive" development out of the 3 pairings and actually have a solid friendship as a foundation for a nurturing relationship (unlike SS and NH).That being said, I lost a TON of respect for Sakura this chapter because I thought that she had FINALLY learned her lesson during the Kage Summit Arc but as we found out this chapter she clearly didn't . 

I still believe that NaruSaku is endgame when it's all said and done because Naruto IS the main character and will most likely get everything he wants and desires in the end (including Sakura's love). However, it's pretty much a guarantee that IF it does become canon it won't happen in a satisfactory way. I will still support NaruSaku but I can honestly say that I really don't like it now as much as I did in the past. 

Let me take it a step further, as of right now, Naruto deserves much better than Sakura because she has simply taken him for granted way too many times. If she can't fully appreciate Naruto for who he is and what he has done for her then I actually wouldn't mind Naruto moving on with someone else. I've said this before and I'll say it again - IF Sakura chooses to be with Naruto in the end it will be because she will realize that he is the one who TRULY makes her happy and not Sasuke, but she has to figure it out on her own.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (May 25, 2011)

Ch1p said:


> But that is the problem here. You POV isn't letting you guys see what Sakura is beyond Sasuke. As a SasuSaku fan, I was kind of happy for the first page, but hell _I wouldn't trade it for the six that follow where she kicks arse_. You guys say that it overshadows. For me it doesn't.



It WON'T be beyond Sasuke when he comes back into the picture, that's the thing. Try to follow what people are stating here. Every reason on why people disliked her character are going to come flooding back to them when that time comes. It's degrading to her character, and whatever accomplishments she makes are going to be mired by the fact that she still pines for a guy that tried to kill her. Even as a SS fan, I can't understand why you'd be happy at all with this, period. You'd have to overlook the massive flaws with the relationship(or lack thereof).


----------



## Amae (May 25, 2011)

Sakura isn't exactly an idiot, but her feelings in relation to Sasuke are difficult to believe because 1.) Sasuke tried to kill her ... twice 2.) How long was Team 7 together? Not long. 3.) How well does she even know Sasuke?

What's with people citing Sakura's gender to explain this away?


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## yukiko♥ (May 25, 2011)

She's a stupid bitch who drools over a guy for his looks. Looks is the only reason why she loves Sasuke.

And no she won't stop to love him unless he cuts off her head. That's how stupid of a whore she is.


----------



## Kage (May 25, 2011)

we deduced she's a fucking moron ages ago.


Supa Swag said:


> Man I can never get enough of how awful a character Kishimoto has created. Worst main female I've ever seen, no doubt. And that takes some SERIOUS SKILL considering Eba Yuzuki of Kimi no Iru Machi exists.
> 
> This crap is par for the course though. You would think having thoughts of someone you love would empower you, but it seems that outside of one, two instances every time Sakura thinks of Sasuke she turns into this miserable  useless "woe is me why do cause me pain sasukey-koon" sack of shit. It's funny when you compare that to Naruto, who is just as pathetic in his desire for Sasuke but he will usually use that desire to train harder and gain more power. Hell it's hilarious when you compare to Hinata this chapter who's doing whatever it takes to do her part in making sure Naruto is safe.
> 
> Not Sakura though. Nope just "bwehahbooboo im so useless i'll just wait for bestfreind-zone Naruto to bring back my one tru luvb  n everyone will be  hapy yay like a fairy tale!!!"


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## vagnard (May 25, 2011)

Wasn't this a well established fact since chapter 3?


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## alchemy1234 (May 25, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> You do realize that at least half the people arguing in this thread are _male_, right?



that has nothing to do with anything. Discussing whether sakura being romantically inclined to sasuke and the topic about female fans being more obsessive about their crushes are two different things. I dont see the link here.

People discussing this topic are probably
(a) obsessing over pairings (they want sakura to like naruto but she still likes sasuke)
(b) are pissed of that kishi keeps showing sakura as an irrational person who is driven mostly by emotions
(c) some may be pissed off since she may not be a good role model for girls etc... i dunno there could be many reasons

but these reasons have nothing to do with obsessing over their crush or some teen idol. Of course both are forms of obsession - that is one thing they have in common. but other than that i dont see the link you're trying to make here.


----------



## sheshyo (May 25, 2011)

alchemy1234 said:


> Influencing neji and gaara was different. It  didn't take as much effort as it is taking to influence sasuke.



 I'd argue Gaara was in fact crazier than Sasuke is currently, given  his completely self-absorbed and irrational reasons for cold-blooded  murders (Sasuke at least has some valid reasons for his targets, despite approaching comparable indifference towards killing). And  the only reason it didn't take much effort is because Gaara  is a side character--similar to Nagato's quick transformation. 



> Also the older you grow the slimmer the chances of you changing become  imo. Neji and gaara were still influenced in their formative years. Heck  to me it felt like they were almost waiting to be convinced. Sasuke is  different though.


Sasuke's current state isn't really a result of some gradual evolution  of his character, but more so related to an awakening of his dark  ancestry, and power; not to mention Madara's unavoidable presence. People close to him have noted his sudden change,  so his transformation back is very much a realistic possibility.


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## Bender (May 25, 2011)

vagnard said:


> Wasn't this a well established fact since chapter 3?



True but she's only proving even more that she's a detestable irritable bitch.


----------



## alchemy1234 (May 25, 2011)

Jin-E said:


> In any other other manga i would agree with you, but in this one? Come on, how many people have commented on Naruto's ability to influence peoples hearts? And Sakura is clearly a believer in his TnJ powers.* Sure its unrealistic strictly from a rational standpoint* but not in the Naruto universe. I think she clearly noticed Sasuke's immediate change in behaviour when Naruto talked to him during the Kage arc, which bolstered her wavering faith.
> 
> Sure, but a major theme in this manga is that you cant succesfully cut of your bonds, even under such extreme circumstances.
> 
> ...



@ bolded part: There you said it. Its unrealistic from a rational standpoint, and that is why people get pissed off. People tend to analyze it from a rational standpoint and hence all the frustration and hate. separating the two isn't easy.


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## Tonga1 (May 25, 2011)

Ch1p said:


> But that is the problem here. You POV isn't letting you guys see what Sakura is beyond Sasuke. As a SasuSaku fan, I was kind of happy for the first page, but hell _I wouldn't trade the six that follow where she kicks arse_ for anything. You guys say that it overshadows. For me it doesn't.



kid wake up...sasuke tried kill sakura 2 time, he want kill naruto, he want destroy konoha so he want dead to shikamaru, choji, lee, hinata, tsunade etc.

It's degrading to her character..


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## gabzilla (May 25, 2011)

alchemy1234 said:


> that has nothing to do with anything. Discussing whether sakura being romantically inclined to sasuke and the topic about female fans being more obsessive about their crushes are two different things. I dont see the link here.
> 
> People discussing this topic are probably
> (a) obsessing over pairings (they want sakura to like naruto but she still likes sasuke)
> ...



It has everything to do with it. Male fans are just as obsessive over their crushes. And it's not just this thread. Half the people involved in pairing debate _are_ male.


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## alchemy1234 (May 25, 2011)

sheshyo said:


> I'd argue Gaara was in fact crazier than Sasuke is currently, given  his completely self-absorbed and irrational reasons for cold-blooded  murders (Sasuke at least has some valid reasons for his targets, despite approaching comparable indifference towards killing). And  the only reason it didn't take much effort is because Gaara  is a side character--similar to Nagato's quick transformation.
> 
> Sasuke's current state isn't really a result of some gradual evolution  of his character, but more so related to an awakening of his dark  ancestry, and power; not to mention Madara's unavoidable presence. People close to him have noted his sudden change,  so his transformation back is very much a realistic possibility.



Gaara was crazier, but he wasn't as hard to convince. Heck one fight and a sound beating did the trick. In fact I think kishi did a fairly reasonable job with that. Gaara although crazy was still young and basically love starved. Naruto connected with him and he was convinced fairly easily. This was still for some reason believable.

But Sasuke, is not a child like gaara. It doesn't seem that there would be any reason for him to be convinced even if he were to fight naruto. Just like there was no reason for nagato to be convinced. Of course sasuke being convinced after fighting will happen, and it is not going to make sense when it happens.


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## Jeαnne (May 25, 2011)

i dislike sakura, but by this logic naruto is also an idiot, you know


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## Zaelapolopollo (May 25, 2011)

Rescue Gaara arc Sakura is not only more intelligent than Naruto and Sasuka have ever been , she's a better character too.


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## alchemy1234 (May 25, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> It has everything to do with it. Male fans are just as obsessive over their crushes. And it's not just this thread. Half the people involved in pairing debate _are_ male.



no. you could prove that male fans obsess over pairings if you are able to prove that most male fans are arguing about this because they prefer narutos and sakuras pairing over sakuras and sasukes. This you cannot prove. EVen if you did prove it, it wouldn't mean male fans obsess over their crushes, it would simply mean they obsess about pairings. these are two different things but both are forms of obsession. and you could say males can be just as obsessive about certain things as well.

but to prove that males can be as obsessive about their crushes you would have to direct me to a news article where teenage boys sent death threats to say... megan foxs boyfriend? (just giving an example) or you would have to show me a video male boys screaming and going bonkers because of some female teen idol. if you do this you would have proven your point.



Jeαnne said:


> i dislike sakura, but by this logic naruto is also an idiot, you know



naruto is the biggest idiot of the lot. At times he is more unnerving than sakura. the only character i like amongst the main three is sasuke.


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## Sorin (May 25, 2011)

Man i don't even know how can people hate Sakura anymore.I for one never hated her, but such unimportant character being hated so much is strange.

On the other hand i also don't understand people who defend Sakura by saying that love is blind and shit like that.Shouldn't be surprised though, they're mostly sasuke fans.


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## Aevatrex (May 25, 2011)

honestly though in the one scan i read the love fodder said "but there is one thing that i know" " if its somebody that *YOU* like, then they're bound to be a great person!" then she thinks of sasuke..that has nothing to do with her still having feelings for him or not...it just means that the love fodders statement about her liking someone that has to be good definitely isnt true..because..well...we all know how sasuke turned out.. i think it could go both ways, the easy catch is she still likes the sauce (stupid..) or that she likes naruto and hes comment made her think of sasuke..( maybe..maybe not but its definately nothing in stone as to why she though of sasuke)


Link removed


----------



## Kage (May 25, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> It has everything to do with it. Male fans are just as obsessive over their crushes. And it's not just this thread. Half the people involved in pairing debate _are_ male.



what does this have to do with sakura being an idiot again?

kishi isn't portraying _males_ with obsessive crushes in his manga sasuke lead nardo on  and calling that his idea of "a realistic boy however a tad detestable" :33


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## MunchKing (May 25, 2011)

She just wants some of the Sauce.

That's all.


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## AKmyWaffle (May 25, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> It has everything to do with it. Male fans are just as obsessive over their crushes. And it's not just this thread. Half the people involved in pairing debate _are_ male.



That is completely untrue and false. Males don't argue pairings, they troll the females who do.


----------



## FearTear (May 25, 2011)

Sasuke's body spreads pheromone, that's the only explanation.


----------



## sumany (May 25, 2011)

she has been an idiot since chapter 3.


----------



## Brian (May 25, 2011)

the most powerful genjutsu in the manga


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## Evolet (May 25, 2011)

It's more to do with Kishi's amazing romance skills.


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## Cherry~Blossom (May 25, 2011)

Maybe it has something to do with the asian culture and how they view things. 

I noticed in romance mangas or dramas the main girl never ends up with the nice guy but with the jerk who makes her cry instead. It keeps me wondering.


----------



## Koi (May 25, 2011)

But boyfriends and husbands kill their women all the time! /best SS argument I've ever heard


Seriously though, her and Naruto can take Sasuke at this point because they can't let go of his dick anyway.


----------



## Supa Swag (May 25, 2011)

Ch1p said:


> Yes because half a page where she duels upon Sasuke-kun and where she shows nothing relevant to plot > half a dozen pages where she A) suspects what others did not and outwits an enemy B) overpowers a Zetsu clone in _one move_ C) figures out the whole conspiracy thanks to her knowledge and intelligence. Kishi doesn't develop her at all besides her feelings for the sauce. Continue laughing. I'll start my own round of giggling at your inability to look at shit that truly matters.



I'm not only using this chapter I'm using 500+ chapters in which Sakura:

-states she's tired of being a burden during the Forest of Death only to do nothing except worry about Sasuke afterwards, pick flowers and have a hilarious convo with Ino about why boys try so hard.

-sobs and emos over Sasuke in a coma while Naruto goes with Jiraiya to search for the woman who can heal him, as well as training for Rasengan.

-sobs and emos over not being able to stop Sasuke and and puts it all on Naruto's shoulders, and when Naruto isn't able to do so is about to give up before she changes her mind because of Naruto's stupid ass conviction.

-emos over Sasuke's picture while Naruto is also thinking of Sasuke but is actually training to get stronger instead of being a useless git.

-sobs and emos over Sasuke's in Akatsuki while Naruto takes care of everything.

-decides to kill sasuke and in the process knocks out her teammates and gives Naruto an utterly pitiful fake love confession. When she has the chance to actually damage Sasuke (not even KILL! just a knick from the kunai) she stops and has to get saved by Naruto. Then she winds up giving up and puts it all on Naruto's shoulder again, despite saying she would stop doing so.

I believe there's also the interview where Kishmoto created Sakura with romance being the main reason, as well as the databooks where romance dominates Sakura's profile.

All this and essentially the only significant non romantic development she has is healing Kankurou and helping Chiyo beat Sasori.


Fact is, Kishmoto mainly includes Sakura in the plot when he wants to include his shitty romance. The rest of her screentime is nearly irrelevant to the main plot and Sakura's main development.


----------



## Skywalker (May 25, 2011)

She's just pathetic, still Sasuke loves her too.


----------



## gabzilla (May 25, 2011)

alchemy1234 said:


> no. you could prove that male fans obsess over pairings if you are able to prove that most male fans are arguing about this because they prefer narutos and sakuras pairing over sakuras and sasukes. This you cannot prove. EVen if you did prove it, it wouldn't mean male fans obsess over their crushes, it would simply mean they obsess about pairings. these are two different things but both are forms of obsession. and you could say males can be just as obsessive about certain things as well.
> 
> but to prove that males can be as obsessive about their crushes you would have to direct me to a news article where teenage boys sent death threats to say... megan foxs boyfriend? (just giving an example) or you would have to show me a video male boys screaming and going bonkers because of some female teen idol. if you do this you would have proven your point.



Do you want me to link you to some male dominated Hannah Montana boards, darling?



AKmyWaffle said:


> That is completely untrue and false. Males don't argue pairings, they troll the females who do.



Suuuure 



Kage said:


> what does this have to do with sakura being an idiot again?
> 
> kishi isn't portraying _males_ with obsessive crushes in his manga sasuke lead nardo on  and calling that his idea of "a realistic boy however a tad detestable" :33



Obsessing over a crush is not done by females only, that's my point.


----------



## Leptirica (May 25, 2011)

Sakura was great this chapter. And pretty. And as for her flashback to Sasuke, that was the step in the right direction as well. 

I have no idea why are you people upset.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (May 25, 2011)

Leptirica said:


> Sakura was great this chapter. And pretty. And as for her flashback to Sasuke, that was the step in the right direction as well.
> 
> I have no idea why are you people upset.



Are you just stating stupid things to be contrary?


----------



## alchemy1234 (May 25, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Do you want me to link you to some male dominated Hannah Montana boards, darling?



sure i'd be glad if you do muffin, but it wouldn't prove anything. if you provided me with any incidents in which mileys boyfriend received large numbers of death threats, you'd have a solid case right there. Or if you showed me videos of large numbers of male fans going crazy around miley, that would also prove your point.

the problem is you have somewhat childishly made this into a male vs female thing, when it never was. It was merely an observation. In fact I didn't even mention anything males being or not being obsessive about their crushes etc. in my first post. you bought that up suggesting that I was insinuating such a thing in that post.

Anyhoo, even if you were to provide me with evidences I've asked you to, _it wouldn't matter. I would simply change my opinion on the subject and move on._ In fact I remember stating very clearly in my first post, _that my observation may be incorrect._


----------



## Leptirica (May 25, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Are you just stating stupid things to be contrary?



No. I liked Sakura this chapter. She did well. 

Are you insulting me out of the blue because you have no better things to do?


----------



## Seto Kaiba (May 25, 2011)

Leptirica said:


> No. I liked Sakura this chapter. She did well.
> 
> Are you insulting me out of the blue because you have no better things to do?



It seemed like a "token" accomplishment.

I wasn't insulting you, I was insulting your claims, and I did so simply because I wanted to.


----------



## Kage (May 25, 2011)

gabzilla said:


> Obsessing over a crush is not done by females only, that's my point.



indeed. 

still don't see a reason to get defense over an obvious like that when it has nothing to do with the way kishi's sees it.


----------



## Naruts (May 25, 2011)

Hey, Sakura cut her hair because she needed to survive against that Shinobi.
......Do you know how important a girl's hair is to her...?

Like really, do you know... *how important a girl's hair is to her?*

Yeah...believe it dattebayo...believe it..

So JUST LEAVE SAKURA-CHAN ALONE....
PLEASE...
JUST STOP HATING ON HER...
IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY TO SAKURA-CHAN...
YOU BETTER SAY IT TO ME FIRST...
I MEAN IT.

JUST...STOP THE HATE EVERYONE, PLEASE?

PLEASE..JUST..stopp..pleasee..


----------



## gabzilla (May 25, 2011)

Kage said:


> indeed.
> 
> still don't see a reason to get defense over an obvious like that when it has nothing to do with the way kishi's sees it.



I'm just tired of this "lolol fangirls are so stupid with their love shit" when fanboys can be just as bad. 



alchemy1234 said:


> sure i'd be glad if you do muffin, but it wouldn't prove anything. if you provided me with any incidents in which mileys boyfriend received large numbers of death threats, you'd have a solid case right there. Or if you showed me videos of large numbers of male fans going crazy around miley, that would also prove your point.
> 
> the problem is you have somewhat childishly made this into a male vs female thing, when it never was. It was merely an observation. In fact I didn't even mention anything males being or not being obsessive about their crushes etc. in my first post. you bought that up suggesting that I was insinuating such a thing in that post.
> 
> Anyhoo, even if you were to provide me with evidences I've asked you to, _it wouldn't matter. I would simply change my opinion on the subject and move on._ In fact I remember stating very clearly in my first post, _that my observation may be incorrect._



It was a generalization, which is why I commented on it in the first place.


----------



## alchemy1234 (May 25, 2011)

anyhoo i feel kishi could've dealt with his female characters in a better way. Most of them are sadly damsels in distress or emotionally unstable and reliant on men. Its pathetic and annoying the way kishi has portrayed most females in this manga. Of course there are certain exceptions like Chiyo, but i'm afraid that simply isn't enough.



gabzilla said:


> I'm just tired of this "lolol fangirls are so stupid with their love shit" when fanboys can be just as bad.



again. an assumption on your part. I don't think being a fangirl or a fanboy makes anyone stupid. Teenage girls screaming about & proclaiming their undieing love for justing bieber wouldn't make them stupid. If they however did something like cutting their hands because justin bieber wasn't their boyfriend THAT would be stupid, and i'm pretty sure most teenage girls wouldn't do that. A fangirl is simply a fangirl, its not something that proves their intelligence or stupidity. of course the email death threat thing is silly, but other than that, there is nothing wrong with being a fangirl/boy. it is simply a phase people go through. I guess they like to express themselves a certain way at certain stages in life. its probably because they're new to all these romantic inclinations etc. and cant hold the feeling in. so they tend to be vocal about it.



> It was a generalization, which is why I commented on it in the first place.



of course, it was a generalization. Saying every teenage girl behaves in a certain set way is silly. but a certain number of them - a number large enough to make people take notice of them do in certain regards behave in a similar way. same goes for men.


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## Leptirica (May 25, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> It seemed like a "token" accomplishment.
> 
> I wasn't insulting you, I was insulting your claims, and I did so simply because I wanted to.




I'm not claiming she did something extraordinary. It was okay, though. Certainly not worth this much hate. Her discovering of the spy was more his mistake than her accomplishment, but she didn't miss it. It was fine. And flashback to Sasuke at that particular moment just means she is more and more aware that he is an asshole and not worth her time as he is now. 


Ah. I see. Manners _and_ logic. Aren't you the whole package.


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## ch1p (May 25, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> It WON'T be beyond Sasuke when he comes back into the picture, that's the thing. Try to follow what people are stating here. Every reason on why people disliked her character are going to come flooding back to them when that time comes. It's degrading to her character, and whatever accomplishments she makes are going to be mired by the fact that she still pines for a guy that tried to kill her. Even as a SS fan, I can't understand why you'd be happy at all with this, period. You'd have to overlook the massive flaws with the relationship(or lack thereof).



We aren't going to see eye on eye on this. However, I'm going to try and explain one more time.

To me, Sakura is someone that manages to aknowledge her flaws and surpass them. It takes a lot of courage to confront, let alone overcome, one's flaws and Sakura did both (several times) and for me that's worth a lot of merit.

Sakura as a child lacked confidence, focused on her negative traits and was ashamed of them (large forehead, hiding it behind her fringe) while forgetting the positive (being cute, other things in life). With the help of Ino, she became more confident in herself, learnt to embrace her negative traits and concentrate on her positive ones (ribbon that displayed still large forehead but also her cute face, later switched with her forehead protector).

The same for her weakness as a ninja. She was weak and she aknowledge it, vowed to change and she battled for such an opportunity (which is something neither Naruto or Sasuke did, as they had legacies and teachers ready to train them without them having to move a muscle).

It's also similar to her feelings for Sasuke, which are her biggest emotional weakness. But this is not because she can't or doesn't let ago. There are so many examples in the manga where characters can't help their feelings and can't destroy their bonds even after shit hits the fan. She's not the first, nor the latter to be victim this. Just as an example, the Third Hokage spared Orochimaru, even after knowing he was torturing and murdering people under his watch. As an adult and as the Hokage, isn't that more pathetic than Sakura? No, because the Third is not Sakura () but also because that's what this manga is all about. One could make some argument that Sasuke doesn't feel anything, but that's irrelevant. One could say it's just a frivolous teenager crush, but that doesn't matter either. It's what's real and strong for Sakura at the moment, so it follows the rules of every other important bond in this manga. No, Sasuke was Sakura's biggest emotional weakness, because albeit Sakura managed to call Sasuke on his bullshit more than once and never wanted his darkness, Sakura was still unable to separate her feelings for Sasuke and what was the right thing to do, which is kind of obvious in her confession, where she was determined to let go of everything just to help him. However, that's no longer the case. She would not leave the Leaf or her friends for Sasuke and with them endangered, she played with the idea of killing him. Twice.

That to _*me*_ is Sakura. SasuSaku happening or not doesn't change any of this, unless she becomes a trivial fangirl who cannot separate her feelings from her duties again, which she already has overcome. Of course I can see how retarded and how destructive SasuSaku could be be, for _both_ sides (not just _hers_), if it's handled wrong. However, I also can see that it can be done well. It's a matter of writing direction and not the whole scenario of them getting together. If it's done wrong and undermining of one / both characters than it sucks. If it doesn't... well, then it doesn't suck and I'll be happy because I believed in a happy ending.

If you're speaking of fanbase and how it will go to the shitter if Sasuke and her hit it up, it doesn't matter. Sakura is hated for everything she does, whether crushing on Sasuke or Naruto, or receiving letters from fodder, or for needing assistance from an old lady to get rid of one Akatsuki member, one hit knock out a Zetsu clonem, healing or just by standing there.



Supa Swag said:


> Fact is, Kishmoto mainly includes Sakura in the plot when he wants to include his shitty romance. The rest of her screentime is nearly irrelevant to the main plot and Sakura's main development.



What else can I say besides that I remember many more things about Sakura than the list you put up?


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## Seto Kaiba (May 25, 2011)

Ch1p said:


> To me, Sakura is someone that manages to aknowledge her flaws and surpass them.



She's not the only one, and she isn't among the best at doing it. Regardless, she still has that flaw that anchors her character down ultimately.



> It takes a lot of courage to confront, let alone overcome, one's flaws and Sakura did both (several times) and for me that's worth a lot of merit.



Somewhat.



> The same for her weakness as a ninja. She was weak and she aknowledge it, vowed to change and she battled for such an opportunity (which is something neither Naruto or Sasuke did, as they had legacies and teachers ready to train them without them having to move a muscle).



Naruto does and has acknowledged his shortcomings and sought to improve them. He didn't just expect legacy to have things fall on his lap. 



> As an adult and as the Hokage, isn't that more pathetic than Sakura? No, because the Third is not Sakura () but also because that's what this manga is all about.



Those examples are weak. Sarutobi and Orochimaru had a surrogate father/son relationship and a student/teacher relationship. He basically raised the guy, he wasn't trying to get into his pants. It was ultimately a fatal flaw of his, but when the time came, he tried his best to rectify it and actually went through with trying to take him down. Although he didn't succeed of course.



> One could make some argument that Sasuke doesn't feel anything, but that's irrelevant.



It's entirely relevant. If there was something there, her clinging would make some sense, but there wasn't. It makes her look pathetic.



> One could say it's just a frivolous teenager crush, but that doesn't matter either.



That DOES matter!



> It's what's real and strong for Sakura at the moment, so it follows the rules of every other important bond in this manga.



Wrong. Sakura's "bond" with Sasuke is of a very different one of the emphasized friendships we've had in this story, and the actual relationships which have been emphasied on their mutual love and functionality. Sakura really went through and still does go through much of the story without really knowing Sasuke. Among Team 7, she had the weakest bond and the loosest grasp on understanding him. All that stated, it is no surprise that she is and has often been the first to lose her faith in Sasuke's redemption. Sakura doesn't even display anything indicative that it's real and true. She has given up repeatedly, only to have her faith artificially sustained by another, namely Naruto. 



> No, Sasuke was Sakura's biggest emotional weakness, because albeit Sakura managed to call Sasuke on his bullshit more than once



She only did it once in Part I, which was ironic considering she was doing jack shit. The 2nd time was behind Naruto's back, but her words did not affect him, her words did not reach him. It was Naruto's words that ultimately had an effect on Sasuke. She was basically a spectator yelling from the bleachers. 

All that stated, that does nothing to discount that Sasuke is her biggest emotional weakness.



> and never wanted his darkness, Sakura was still unable to separate her feelings for Sasuke and what was the right thing to do, which is kind of obvious in her confession, where she was determined to let go of everything just to help him. However, that's no longer the case. She would not leave the Leaf or her friends for Sasuke and with them endangered, she played with the idea of killing him. Twice.



That compromises your argument on "what's real and strong for Sakura". 



> That to _*me*_ is Sakura. SasuSaku happening or not doesn't change any of this, unless she becomes a trivial fangirl who cannot separate her feelings from her duties again, which she already has overcome.



SasuSaku means that fangirl is still alive somewhere. Scratch that, at this point, it means something worse has taken its place.



> Of course I can see how retarded and how destructive SasuSaku could be be, for _both_ sides (not just _hers_), if it's handled wrong.



It's already handled wrong. Even at their best, Sasuke considered Sakura a comrade and had no interest in taking it further. Then there's the disinterest and even callous disregard for her feelings, and then indifference and finally so bad that he could kill her in cold blood with no hesitation. I think that's handled _pretty awfully_.



> However, I also can see that it can be done well.



It's too late for that. The consensus, which only goes with common sense is that she should not have romantic prospects for a guy that just tried to kill her. It makes her look weak, it makes her look pathetic, and it does not make her look like a heroine with a spec of salt. 



> It's a matter of writing direction and not the whole scenario of them getting together. If it's done wrong and undermining of one / both characters than it sucks. If it doesn't... well, then it doesn't suck and I'll be happy because I believed in a happy ending.



It's already undermining Sakura's character. It's done so throughout the entire story, what do you think motivated people's exasperations this week? 



> If you're speaking of fanbase and how it will go to the shitter if Sasuke and her hit it up, it doesn't matter. Sakura is hated for everything she does, whether crushing on Sasuke or Naruto, or receiving letters from fodder, or for needing assistance from an old lady to get rid of one Akatsuki member, one hit knock out a Zetsu clonem, healing or just by standing there.



Because her fixation on Sasuke has crapped all over her character. That was people's first impression of her, and that would stick if she can't get over the guy that tried to kill her three times. I think people would at least give her credit for doing it. Look at Karin for example, people gave her props despite their opinions on her for getting over Sasuke.


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## Lelouch71 (May 25, 2011)

Jeαnne said:


> i dislike sakura, but by this logic naruto is also an idiot, you know


At least everyone knows Naruto is an idiot. He has an excuse, but Sakura is suppose to be smart yet she's an idiot too.


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## silenceofthelambs (May 25, 2011)

I have never anticipated anything brilliant from Sakura.

No expectations, no disappointment.


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## Supa Swag (May 25, 2011)

Ch1p said:


> What else can I say besides that I remember many more things about Sakura than the list you put up?



I remember more about her, I just listed the most important part of her development (the only relevant one to me in terms of the story),her connection to the real main characters.


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## UltimateDeadpool (May 25, 2011)

Girls love douches and assholes like Sasuke, they just say they want guys like Naruto.


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## alchemy1234 (May 25, 2011)

^^ Sasuke ain't a douche or an asshole good sir. He's just been through a lot. If anyone else had to go through what he's been through, the person would not have managed to retain his/her sanity.


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## Gregory House (May 25, 2011)

Seto is right in every sense i was just about to point that Sasuke and Sakura never really had a relationship for her to truly be hung up on him like this. At beast they were friends she never bonded with Sasuke like Naruto did, they saw each other as brothers and in a sense kindred spirits because they grew up with heavy burdens. Sakura on the other hand can't relate to either of her teammates, the worst thing that happened to her is she cut her hair and even making that a big deal makes me lose respect for her. She has been useless and has dragged the story down due to her so call love for sasuke. 

It's annoying and childish how Kisi keeps on bringing her up and then throwing Sasuke in the mix to just tear her back down again. I love some aspects of the character but she is slowly turning into Hinata for me who is kind of annoying. You can't love someone when you really don't know them even if its a childish crush. I know growing up and when your a teenager puppy love is common but both of these characters have shown that their feelings have lead to irrational behavior. Hinata shouldn't be saying that she loves Naruto and thats why she protecting him from Pain, bitch you don't know him. Its understandable if Kisi stays that her deep admiration for him gave her the courage to protect him because thats what he would of done but dont use love. Sakura too needs to give up on Sasuke he tried to kill you and your so called bestfriend.

If she really cared about Naruto like it seems she does even as great friends she needs to let go of her feelings for sasuke because they will get Naruto killed. She needs to stand up train a hell lot more and tell Naruto that she will help him take down Sasuke and actually come at him with the intention to hurt him. If she doesnt have a hand in taking Sasuke down and if Naruto dies i think that her character will be useless because what do you do now.


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## Skywalker (May 25, 2011)

Lelouch71 said:


> At least everyone knows Naruto is an idiot. He has an excuse, but Sakura is suppose to be smart yet she's an idiot too.


lolwat.

Naruto is a genius.


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## Farih (May 25, 2011)

I really hate associating Sakura with her love interests.  Hinata isn't/shouldn't be judged as a character overall because of her feelings for Naruto; Lee isn't judged for the crush he had on Sakura.  However, Kishi has made it clear that SasukexSakura would be a detrimental relationship and yet Sakura seemingly continues to pine after him.  This is why, unlike everyone else in the series, Sakura is chastised because of her romantic preference in the fandom.  Though there are other reasons, almost all of her mistakes and flaws come into play with Sasuke in the picture.

And I think why people find her more ridiculous (keep in mind I'm not a Sakura hater--far from it) is that she and Sasuke never even shared a significant bond.  They were teammates at best and Sasuke never gave her encouragement that he wanted any sort of romantic relationship with her, yet she clings to him.  He's tried to kill her three times and she still loves him.  I hate to use this term, but she seems to exhibit many symptoms of battered wife syndrome.


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## ch1p (May 25, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> She's not the only one, and she isn't among the best at doing it. Regardless, she still has that flaw that anchors her character down ultimately.



So what if she isn't the only one nor is she's the best? I like that she's taking a proactive stance and even if she makes mistakes and does things wrong sometimes, she still continues and _eventually accomplishes them_? I can appreciate the bumpy road too if it leads somewhere.

I don't see her loving Sasuke as a flaw. I see her dealing with her love as she did when she was young as a flaw.



> Somewhat.



Again, I said, to *me* that's very important.



> Naruto does and has acknowledged his shortcomings and sought to improve them. He didn't just expect legacy to have things fall on his lap.



Jiraiya might have needed some convincing, but now things are falling on his lap, from frog training, Yamato and now Killer Bee. Sakura had to go chase and what training she had from Kakashi? None. Maybe that one time about chakra control.



> Those examples are weak. Sarutobi and Orochimaru had a surrogate father/son relationship and a student/teacher relationship. He basically raised the guy, he wasn't trying to get into his pants. It was ultimately a fatal flaw of his, but when the time came, he tried his best to rectify it and actually went through with trying to take him down. Although he didn't succeed of course.



It is a weak bond because you think that one is stronger than Sakura's. It might as well be, but that's not what she feels. Furthermore, the Third was an adult, he was the Hokage, he did something only when Orochimaru threatened the village directly. Whatever you feel that he's entitled to, it all becomes rather matched when you consider all that against a 16 year old.



> It's entirely relevant. If there was something there, her clinging would make some sense, but there wasn't. It makes her look pathetic.



Sasuke went from one track minded avenger mode to sacrificing his life for Naruto / Sakura over seeing them hurt. That's strong. Romantic or not, what of it? It's still very strong.



> That DOES matter!
> 
> Wrong. Sakura's "bond" with Sasuke is of a very different one of the emphasized friendships we've had in this story, and the actual relationships which have been emphasied on their mutual love and functionality. Sakura really went through and still does go through much of the story without really knowing Sasuke. Among Team 7, she had the weakest bond and the loosest grasp on understanding him. All that stated, it is no surprise that she is and has often been the first to lose her faith in Sasuke's redemption. Sakura doesn't even display anything indicative that it's real and true. She has given up repeatedly, only to have her faith artificially sustained by another, namely Naruto.



What of it? This has nothing to do with Sakura overcoming her weakness in dealing with Sasuke.

Furthermore, to _her_, the bond is strong. Did Orochimaru give a shit about Jirayia? Are Jirayia's feelings for Orochimaru somewhat weaker because of this? Or thinking he's a failure for not managing to save his friend shallow? It's the exact same one-sided situation.



> She only did it once in Part I, which was ironic considering she was doing jack shit. The 2nd time was behind Naruto's back, but her words did not affect him, her words did not reach him. It was Naruto's words that ultimately had an effect on Sasuke. She was basically a spectator yelling from the bleachers.



So what of it? I didn't say they made an impact on him. I directly stated that it was important that _she_ saying these things was what was important. It's easy to dismiss her feelings as fangirling but fangirls love an ideal version. Sakura learnt Sasuke was not ideal. The fact that she aknowledges his weakness makes her feelings not shallow. Whether he heard about it or felt touched in any way not has no relevance in this matter. She separated her crush from reality, that was the point.



> All that stated, that does nothing to discount that Sasuke is her biggest emotional weakness.



So?



> That compromises your argument on "what's real and strong for Sakura".



I don't see how.



> SasuSaku means that fangirl is still alive somewhere. Scratch that, at this point, it means something worse has taken its place.



No, it doesn't. She's not a fangirl anymore. Do you believe that? Do you believe that she's still the same as she was in chapter 3? It's useless to be discussing this if you do if you think there was no growth.



> It's already handled wrong. Even at their best, Sasuke considered Sakura a comrade and had no interest in taking it further. Then there's the disinterest and even callous disregard for her feelings, and then indifference and finally so bad that he could kill her in cold blood with no hesitation. I think that's handled _pretty awfully_.



I don't see it anymore awfully handled as the whole lot this manga has to offer.



> It's too late for that. The consensus, which only goes with common sense is that she should not have romantic prospects for a guy that just tried to kill her. It makes her look weak, it makes her look pathetic, and it does not make her look like a heroine with a spec of salt.



If you say so and I'm not going to argue with opinion. That's not the manga's theme however.



> It's already undermining Sakura's character. It's done so throughout the entire story, what do you think motivated people's exasperations this week?



Angered anti-Sakura fans this whole week. This chapter mixed the NS crowd too. It's not very hard to figure out. Suddenly Sakura is fucking worthelss because of her romantic endevours but they're focused on them too, just some different character in the place of Sasuke. *I won't say there are no exceptions.* I really dislike it though. Sakura had a great week. If only people stopped angsting about half a page and started focusing on the other awesome six.



> Because her fixation on Sasuke has crapped all over her character. That was people's first impression of her, and that would stick if she can't get over the guy that tried to kill her three times. I think people would at least give her credit for doing it. Look at Karin for example, people gave her props despite their opinions on her for getting over Sasuke.



I didn't like or dislike Karin for her romantic feelings, because hey there was more to her then them (oh look, a pattern!). Her giving up on Sasuke or not didn't change much for me, though I wasn't surprised because I never thought they were that deep anyway. But that's not here nor there. The point is, there was more to Karin. Different POVs, again.

Pairing extremists are as worse as anti-pairing extremists. Both are making a big deal about it. Bashing Sakura for pairings when she did so much more this week is ridiculous. Concentrating on the character just for her romantic life alone is ridiculous. There's more to Sakura than Sasuke.


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## ajinko (May 25, 2011)

99% of the forum goers hate sakura because she is in love with sasuke. the only time i resented her was the time when she fake confessed.


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## Gregory House (May 25, 2011)

Farih said:


> I really hate associating Sakura with her love interests.  Hinata isn't/shouldn't be judged as a character overall because of her feelings for Naruto; Lee isn't judged for the crush he had on Sakura.  However, Kishi has made it clear that SasukexSakura would be a detrimental relationship and yet Sakura seemingly continues to pine after him.  This is why, unlike everyone else in the series, Sakura is chastised because of her romantic preference in the fandom.  Though there are other reasons, almost all of her mistakes and flaws come into play with Sasuke in the picture.
> 
> And I think why people find her more ridiculous (keep in mind I'm not a Sakura hater--far from it) is that she and Sasuke never even shared a significant bond.  They were teammates at best and Sasuke never gave her encouragement that he wanted any sort of romantic relationship with her, yet she clings to him.  He's tried to kill her three times and she still loves him.  I hate to use this term, but she seems to exhibit many symptoms of battered wife syndrome.



Your right in a sense my problem as a whole is that Kisi is terrible at writing healthy relationships for most of these characters he goes overboard. None of these characters can honest say that they really "love" the other person that they have feelings for but are willing to go through what i consider crazy lengths for people they barely know. Honestly im not a big fan of shipping but the only relationship that makes the most sense is Sakura and Naruto.

My other problem is that i do want to see more character development from these characters. Kisi should make Hinata more then a character who is shy around Naruto and wants to be better because of him. She should want to do better because the stakes are way to high, your cousin is hurt and your dad is fighting yet you want to do well because of Naruto. Really is that sane to anyone. Sakura also needs to fully outgrow her crush its just stupid at this point.


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## ajinko (May 25, 2011)

sakura outgrow her crush but she is in love which is not a mere crush anymore.


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## Orochibuto (May 25, 2011)

Naruts said:


> Hey, Sakura cut her hair because she needed to survive against that Shinobi.
> ......Do you know how important a girl's hair is to her...?
> 
> Like really, do you know... *how important a girl's hair is to her?*
> ...





[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc[/YOUTUBE]


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## Bellville (May 25, 2011)

Jeαnne said:


> i dislike sakura, but by this logic naruto is also an idiot, you know


Naruto freely told Jiraiya that he'd prefer to be an idiot his whole life than to give up on Sasuke. No news there.



Ch1p said:


> To me, Sakura is someone that manages to aknowledge her flaws and surpass them. It takes a lot of courage to confront, let alone overcome, one's flaws and Sakura did both (several times) and for me that's worth a lot of merit.


Sakura's greatest and most difficult to overcome flaw is her love for Sasuke. It imprisons her. It brings her down. She feels like shit about it. She looks stupid because of it. The best that can be done for her is to have her get over him. She's _finally_ acknowledging that he's a dirtbag. This is where the road forks: she either continues to pine for him and wants to be with him even after all the shit he's put her through or she refuses to pursue him romantically, _possibly_ taking one step closer to getting over him. Because even when he wasn't trying to murder her and all of her friends, she still felt like dirt about their relationship.



Ch1p said:


> I don't see her loving Sasuke as a flaw. I see her dealing with her love as she did when she was young as a flaw.


It's what holds her back more than anything, even herself. If that's not a flaw, I don't know what is.


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## Semplice (May 25, 2011)

*facepalm*  Sakura, I am disappoint.


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## Gregory House (May 25, 2011)

ajinko said:


> sakura outgrow her crush but she is in love which is not a mere crush anymore.



Which is kind of idiotic she has put several people in danger because of her so called "love". I don't want to beat the dead horse over and over again but Kisi needs to take a page out of fucking bleach. Orihime isn't perfect but her feelings for Ichigo are in my opinion way more honest and realistic. She actually knows him, his been through a ton with him, he has gone after to save her. Like its more then just fangirl bs you can actually see her feelings progress and have actual merit to grow over the course of the series.


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## erivar (May 25, 2011)

Sheesh, get over it. She's not an idiot for still having feelings for Sasuke. It's human. You can't help who you fall in love with because love is irrational. She fell for the good part of Sasuke she knew and not the whole picture. Plus, it confirms that her feelings for him were genuine.

She would only be a true idiot if she follows through with the love she feels. If he were to come back and she jumped right into his arms because she loves him, that would surely make her an idiot. So far, she doesn't seem to have any plans of doing that. In fact, if you payed close attention to the panel, it shows that she isn't exactly emitting happiness and pride that she does hold those kind of feelings for him. They actually make her sad and unhappy. I'm very sure that logically she is aware of the fact that she shouldn't have such feelings for him. In fact, those logical reasoning were the words she threw at Naruto to convince him of how she no longer cared about Sasuke and why she had chosen Naruto instead. Her brain knows it but her heart doesn't it. Very normal.


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## Mr Horrible (May 25, 2011)

erivar said:


> Sheesh, get over it. She's not an idiot for still having feelings for Sasuke. It's human. You can't help who you fall in love with because love is irrational. She fell for the good part of Sasuke she knew and not the whole picture. Plus, it confirms that her feelings for him were genuine.



What is this crap about love being irrational? Do you just randomly fall in love while you walk down the street? How about that crazy homeless guy on the corner, do you just randomly start loving him? Well, I guess because love is irrational, that makes it fine to stay with a partner that doesn't give a shit about you? It's human to move the hell on from those types of relationships.

TL;DR: love being irrational is a ridiculous cop-out.


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## Yuna (May 25, 2011)

Sakura is an idiot. And this is news?


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## Indignant Guile (May 25, 2011)

Naruto still likes this ho?


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## Enclave (May 25, 2011)

Mathias124 said:


> Well genitically speaking his dna is superior to most other males,



Yeah but Naruto loves her and his DNA is just as excellent as Sasukes.

She really is a moron.  Seriously, when a guy tries to kill you it's generally a good idea to no longer consider them a potential mate.


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## Kage (May 25, 2011)

> 99% of the forum goers hate sakura because she is in love with sasuke. the only time i resented her was the time when she fake confessed.



not because she's in love with him but because she doesn't have a single damn good reason for it and that makes her look like a spazz. kishi's trying to make her "realistic" in this regard but it just comes off as insulting and disingenuous. the only people swallowing this tripe are people rooting for her to get the cool dark bishe of her dreams. why? because he's cool and handsome. OR maybe because when they were teammates he didn't let her take a kunai in the face while being cool and handsome such chemistry. don't mind the blubbering mess his indifference and outright rejections outside of life or death situations turned her into. _still_ turns her into but without the luxury of sasuke actually giving a damn about whether she lives or dies. it's all a part of the appeal. no one wants her paired with psycho sauce after all. emotionally detached with the bare minimum of human decency is the rainbow we're reaching for here.


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## Seto Kaiba (May 25, 2011)

Ch1p said:


> don't see her loving Sasuke as a flaw. I see her dealing with her love as she did when she was young as a flaw.



You don't see being in love with a genocidal maniac a *little* flawed?



> It is a weak bond because you think that one is stronger than Sakura's.



That's because it is. This isn't a dispute or an opinion, that's just the simple truth of the matter.



> It might as well be, but that's not what she feels.



She herself is unsure about it! She herself doubts it so many times and it brings her so much angst and pain over it. 



> Furthermore, the Third was an adult, he was the Hokage, he did something only when Orochimaru threatened the village directly. Whatever you feel that he's entitled to, it all becomes rather matched when you consider all that against a 16 year old.



He's not one trying, wanting, or expecting to start a romantic relationship with a killer. This thing by bringing up Sasuke and Naruto or other bonds is pretty weak. You have to take into account the nature of their relationship and the story behind it, but you aren't. 



> Sasuke went from one track minded avenger mode to sacrificing his life for Naruto / Sakura over seeing them hurt. That's strong. Romantic or not, what of it? It's still very strong.



That doesn't mean anything for SasuSaku. What of it? That sounds like you're just ignoring things that are an inconvenience. It matters a huge deal.




> What of it? This has nothing to do with Sakura overcoming her weakness in dealing with Sasuke.



It does not refute the point that her crush on Sasuke is her among her biggest flaws, or the cause of some of her biggest flaws.



> Furthermore, to _her_, the bond is strong.



Again, no it isn't. She has constantly had doubts and has even given up. It's artificially sustained by Naruto's faith in Sasuke. She believes in Naruto who believes in Sasuke. She basically expects Naruto to do all the work, and clearly expects to reap benefits from his effort.



> Did Orochimaru give a shit about Jirayia? Are Jirayia's feelings for Orochimaru somewhat weaker because of this? Or thinking he's a failure for not managing to save his friend shallow? It's the exact same one-sided situation.



Another weak method of dragging other incomparable bonds into this. The argument I made for Naruto/Sasuke earlier and part of what I made for Oro/Sarutobi applies to this too. These aren't even close to what Sasuke and Sakura was (or wasn't) and you are ignoring the bonds and the story on a major scale by claiming so.



> So what of it? I didn't say they made an impact on him. I directly stated that it was important that _she_ saying these things was what was important.



The thing about it is, they weren't important.



> It's easy to dismiss her feelings as fangirling but fangirls love an ideal version. Sakura learnt Sasuke was not ideal. The fact that she aknowledges his weakness makes her feelings not shallow.



Sakura clings to the ideal of Sasuke that probably was never there. Her feelings among anyone else's except maybe Karin's are the most shallow in basis and motivation.



> Whether he heard about it or felt touched in any way not has no relevance in this matter. She separated her crush from reality, that was the point.



She didn't have a choice really, he tried to kill her three times.



> So?





> I don't see how.



I know you don't.



> No, it doesn't. She's not a fangirl anymore. Do you believe that? Do you believe that she's still the same as she was in chapter 3? It's useless to be discussing this if you do if you think there was no growth.



It does. It only shows that the fangirl or worse is still there. I want her to be different from that girl in ch. 3, and I don't think people will see past that girl in Ch.3 until she gets over Sasuke. 



> I don't see it anymore awfully handled as the whole lot this manga has to offer.



It is.



> If you say so and I'm not going to argue with opinion. That's not the manga's theme however.



The manga's theme has NOTHING to do with Sasuke and Sakura. Don't try to warp it like it does.



> Angered anti-Sakura fans this whole week. This chapter mixed the NS crowd too. It's not very hard to figure out. Suddenly Sakura is fucking worthelss because of her romantic endevours but they're focused on them too, just some different character in the place of Sasuke. *I won't say there are no exceptions.* I really dislike it though. Sakura had a great week. If only people stopped angsting about half a page and started focusing on the other awesome six.



What did I just tell you? Sakura's feelings for Sasuke overshadows her character. It's a dead weight. Every time it comes into the picture people are reminded of how much and why they dislike her. She looks incredibly weak and pathetic for still pining over someone that tried to take her life. It makes no difference what she did if she can't get over that big hurdle.



> I didn't like or dislike Karin for her romantic feelings, because hey there was more to her then them (oh look, a pattern!). Her giving up on Sasuke or not didn't change much for me, though I wasn't surprised because I never thought they were that deep anyway. But that's not here nor there. The point is, there was more to Karin. Different POVs, again.



She loved him as Sakura did. The difference is Karin had the strength to move on despite how painful the experience of his betrayal was. Sakura will always be overshadowed by this when comparing the two. Karin could easily steal the show from her, because she has already shown the emotional and mental strength that Sakura has been lacking for a long time.



> Pairing extremists are as worse as anti-pairing extremists. Both are making a big deal about it. Bashing Sakura for pairings when she did so much more this week is ridiculous. Concentrating on the character just for her romantic life alone is ridiculous. There's more to Sakura than Sasuke.



You are being shortsighted about this. This is in relation to Sakura's character. Sakura is degraded by her infatuation with Sasuke, people are just sick of it. Especially now. As I have tirelessly stated, it makes her look absolutely pathetic.


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## ajinko (May 25, 2011)

sakura still loves the sasuke she spent time with during team 7 in part 1. she still believes theres good in him and that he can turn around. not that different than how naruto feels about sasuke. they know deep down he is just a conflicted person.


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## Gregory House (May 25, 2011)

erivar said:


> Sheesh, get over it. She's not an idiot for still having feelings for Sasuke. It's human. You can't help who you fall in love with because love is irrational. She fell for the good part of Sasuke she knew and not the whole picture. Plus, it confirms that her feelings for him were genuine.



What good part? She never really got a chance to know him. Most of the team 7 dynamics dealt with Naurto and Sasukes relationship i rarely remember her sharing a tender with Sasuke that's the issue. It's true you can't choose who you love but when they put your life and danger and those you care about it becomes irrational to love them like i said. If loving someone means you should die with them or for them then your an idiot. 

I can compare their relationship to Romeo and Juliet but make it one sided, and when i read that story i thought it was more of Shakespeare making fun of how stupid teenagers act when they think they are in love not it being a story of start crossed lovers.


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## Lelouch71 (May 25, 2011)

ajinko said:


> sakura outgrow her crush but she is in love which is not a mere crush anymore.


She "loves" some fictional Sasuke that doesn't exist. She never knew the real Sasuke and to this day she still doesn't understand him.


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## alchemy1234 (May 25, 2011)

Farih said:


> I really hate associating Sakura with her love interests.  Hinata isn't/shouldn't be judged as a character overall because of her feelings for Naruto; Lee isn't judged for the crush he had on Sakura.  However, Kishi has made it clear that SasukexSakura would be a detrimental relationship and yet Sakura seemingly continues to pine after him.  This is why, unlike everyone else in the series, Sakura is chastised because of her romantic preference in the fandom.  Though there are other reasons, almost all of her mistakes and flaws come into play with Sasuke in the picture.
> 
> And I think why people find her more ridiculous (keep in mind I'm not a Sakura hater--far from it) is that she and Sasuke never even shared a significant bond.  They were teammates at best and Sasuke never gave her encouragement that he wanted any sort of romantic relationship with her, yet she clings to him.  He's tried to kill her three times and she still loves him.  I hate to use this term, but she seems to exhibit many symptoms of battered wife syndrome.



pretty much my thoughts on the subject, but what makes it worse is the battered wife initially did receive good treatment from her husband - probably before marriage. Sasuke has shunned sakura and couldn't have made it clearer that he's not at all romantically inclined towards her. This makes her look really pathetic. (I don't think women who are stuck in an abusive relationship are pathetic, and my heart really goes out to them). but sakuras case is different. she never really was in a relationship with sasuke.


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## WorstUsernameEver (May 25, 2011)

This is how they get down in the Narutoverse. Attempted murder is an act of friendship


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## ajinko (May 25, 2011)

what if sakura was the guy and sasuke was the girl would u still call sakura an idiot? i think sakura got to know sasuke back when he was in team 7 .they had enough interaction to justify why sakura fell in love with him.


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## Seto Kaiba (May 25, 2011)

ajinko said:


> what if sakura was the guy and sasuke was the girl would u still call sakura an idiot?



Even moreso.


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## ajinko (May 25, 2011)

^ u have seto kaiba in ur avatar. he is like the same as sasuke but even more arrogant.


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## Mr Horrible (May 25, 2011)

ajinko said:


> ^ u have seto kaiba in ur avatar. he is like the same as sasuke but even more arrogant.



Good point.


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## Seto Kaiba (May 25, 2011)

ajinko said:


> ^ u have seto kaiba in ur avatar. he is like the same as sasuke but even more arrogant.



...and the stupidity starts. That's like comparing Zero and Sasuke because they both have cold demeanors and are "rivals", that is about the only similarity...I could just list the differences in their character but that would do no good, and I think it'd go on for a while.

The most defining difference I will point out though is their perceptions on the idea of personal responsibility, and most importantly, the past.


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## nadinkrah (May 25, 2011)

ajinko said:


> ^ u have seto kaiba in ur avatar. he is like the same as sasuke but even more arrogant.



Kaiba is not evil though


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## ajinko (May 25, 2011)

^ yes he is. kaiba had one hell of a superiority complex. 
every time yugi kicked his ass. thats about the only difference.


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## alchemy1234 (May 25, 2011)

ajinko said:


> what if sakura was the guy and sasuke was the girl would u still call sakura an idiot? i think sakura got to know sasuke back when he was in team 7 .they had enough interaction to justify why sakura fell in love with him.



i think naruto is an idiot as well. so i don't see why sakura being the guy would change anything. but at least naruto and sasuke had a stronger bond than sakura and sasuke. at some level they can relate to each other, and they definitely were close to each other in team 7.  sasuke is my favorite character, but that doesn't mean I have to support sakura and sasukes pairing. I think sakura should've been portrayed to be a more rational and emotionally stronger character than this. heck she doesn't even have good reasons to be in love with sasuke. that makes her crush/love for sasuke look shallow as well. for instance hinata likes naruto because she thinks he is inspirational etc. while sakura seemed to only have liked him because he was a good looking and talented kid. if the reasons changed, then kishi should have presented these new deeper reasons she may have for liking him, he should have at least shown that sasuke reciprocated sakuras feeling and they got into a relationship while in team 7 and sakura found other reasons to like sasuke apart from his looks or talent, but kishi didn't do any of this. anyhoo there is a ton of other shit as well, but ya get the point.


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## Orochibuto (May 25, 2011)

ajinko said:


> ^ yes he is. kaiba had one hell of a superiority complex.
> every time yugi kicked his ass. thats about the only difference.



And he doesnt live in the past, neither gives a shit about it.


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## Bane (May 25, 2011)

The second I saw that page I came here to post this exact thing. She is Stupid with a capital S


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## Jeαnne (May 25, 2011)

alchemy1234 said:


> naruto is the biggest idiot of the lot. At times he is more unnerving than sakura. the only character i like amongst the main three is sasuke.



hehe, well i feel a lot of sympathy for naruto though, his feelings about sasuke seem more deep than sakura's little girl crush

i cant help but dislike sakura...but i like naruto, sasuke is my fave character though

because ironically, even sasuke being the most hateful of the main 3(perhaps its an illusion, sakura might be more, the problem is that sasuke's character forces you to spit your opinion about him, you cant be indifferent the way that the story is writen u.u), he is also the most likeable, controversal characters are like that


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## ajinko (May 25, 2011)

kaibas past wasn't as fucked as sasukes. if it was a lot of people would be dead.


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## Rosie (May 25, 2011)

She's not stupid, Kishi just doesn't understand that a man beating his wife --or wannabe girlfriend--in public hasn't been socially acceptable since, like, the middle ages


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## Nic (May 25, 2011)

Actually the way i interpreted that, was with Sakura responding to the "great comment" more than anything and being depressed at what Sasuke had become instead.


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## alchemy1234 (May 25, 2011)

Jeαnne said:


> hehe, well i feel a lot of sympathy for naruto though, his feelings about sasuke seem more deep than sakura's little girl crush
> 
> i cant help but dislike sakura...but i like naruto, sasuke is my fave character though
> 
> because ironically, even sasuke being the most hateful of the main 3(perhaps its an illusion, sakura might be more, the problem is that sasuke's character forces you to spit your opinion about him, you cant be indifferent the way that the story is writen u.u), he is also the most likeable, controversal characters are like that



i mean overall sakura takes the cake when it comes to annoying. but i'm just saying AT TIMES naruto can be more annoying. but lol i like the way you put it jeanne, "i cant help but dislike sakura. lol i totally get what you meant there". Naruto at least has his moments, and isn't annoying at all times. and i agree 100%. i stated in my earlier post, at least narutos desire to bring back sasuke is a little more justified considering they were actually close, unlike suckura who just wanted to date the cool, talented sex bomb of the academy. (ok now to avoid sounding like a p*d*p**** i'll stop here).


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## B.o.t.i (May 25, 2011)

MCHammerdad said:


> After 2 attempted murders she still loves him...  sasuke must have something special all the girls like.



lol women & logic.
Bad boys always get the girls where you been??

Chicks like emotional trauma/drama. Too long for me to break it down to you.We would need drink,cigars or somekind of smoke a console or cards to play poker/blackjack.

We just dont have time to break it down.


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## Yuna (May 25, 2011)

ajinko said:


> i think sakura got to know sasuke back when he was in team 7 .they had enough interaction to justify why sakura fell in love with him.


No they didn't. Especially considering the fact that Sasuke spent pretty much zero time speaking with Sakura besides on missions! And he kept brushing off her flirtations. And then he went and became a *killer*.

The Sasuke Sakura "loves" hasn't existed for years and she knows that, yet she still loves him? Really?


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## Jeαnne (May 25, 2011)

alchemy1234 said:


> i mean overall sakura takes the cake when it comes to annoying. but i'm just saying AT TIMES naruto can be more annoying. but lol i like the way you put it jeanne, i cant help but dislike sakura. lol i totally get what you meant there. Naruto at least has his moments, and isn't annoying at all times.


, i know exacly how you feel, because i feel the same towards sakura, it cant be helped, only knowing that what will happen will be about sakura already makes me roll my eyes up


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## ajinko (May 25, 2011)

ur just being ignorant if u think they didn't have any interaction back in part 1. they had a lot an sakura eventually learned abotu sasukes past an all and she even confessed. this is all way before he became evil.


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## Deana (May 25, 2011)

It is much better to be in consistent idiot, than a randomly fickle bitch.  

Sakura: U just mad.


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## Seto Kaiba (May 25, 2011)

Deana said:


> It is much better to be in consistent idiot, than a randomly fickle bitch.
> 
> Sakura: U just mad.



Too bad she's an inconsistent idiot.


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## erivar (May 25, 2011)

Mr Horrible said:


> What is this crap about love being irrational? Do you just randomly fall in love while you walk down the street? How about that crazy homeless guy on the corner, do you just randomly start loving him? Well, I guess because love is irrational, that makes it fine to stay with a partner that doesn't give a shit about you? It's human to move the hell on from those types of relationships.
> 
> TL;DR: love being irrational is a ridiculous cop-out.



Love can be irrational. If you don't understand how that can be, then that is your problem not mine. I never once said that i agreed with her being in love with him and that i think it makes sense. It doesn't make sense sometimes hence why it is irrational. I mean we have people, men and woman touting that they fell in love when in reality, all that happened was they were infatuated and lusting after the person's body. I suppose to you, that kind of "love" is rational. High schoolers and elementary schoolers in love is rational to you.

 I once fell for a guy who later turned out to be a douche for a particular reason i would say ran counter to my values such as playing two girls at once who were my friends. Even after 6 months, i still had feelings for him. But you see, there was no way in hell i planned to run with those feelings. If he had come up to me and asked me out, i would have punched him in his baby maker and ripped him a new one. In fact, i stopped being his friend and only tolerated him because of a good friend of mine liked him. I didn't expect her to uphold the same values that made him a scum in my eyes. We were two different people after all. But while i tried to distance myself from him, my stupid heart still had feelings for him till i got over them and felt much better. 

So you see, i can only agree with Sakura being an idiot if in the future she still tried to enter a relationship with Sasuke after all that had happened. How is she still staying with him right now? And currently, that hasn't happened.  And it is obvious that she doesn't feel happy that she still has feelings for him so i think the bigger idiots are the people who can't see that.


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## Yuna (May 25, 2011)

ajinko said:


> ^ yes he is. kaiba had one hell of a superiority complex.
> every time yugi kicked his ass. thats about the only difference.


Having a superiority complex =/= Being evil



ajinko said:


> ur just being ignorant if u think they didn't have any interaction back in part 1. they had a lot an sakura eventually learned abotu sasukes past an all and she even confessed. this is all way before he became evil.


Sakura knew diddly about Sasuke's past before she confessed to him.


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## AKmyWaffle (May 25, 2011)

Doesn't Sakura represent the average female? I mean come on, she doesn't even come close to matching the kind of crazy shit other bipolar women do.


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## Yuna (May 25, 2011)

AKmyWaffle said:


> Doesn't Sakura represent the average female? I mean come on, she doesn't even come close to matching the kind of crazy shit other bipolar women do.


Did you just claim that the average woman is bipolar?


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## Bender (May 25, 2011)

ajinko said:


> ^ u have seto kaiba in ur avatar. he is like the same as sasuke but even more arrogant.





[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GC_ylRHtZs[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tg4oT2yp5VA&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

Your fail infuriates me like no other fail on these forums.


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## Bellville (May 25, 2011)

Mr Horrible said:


> What is this crap about love being irrational? Do you just randomly fall in love while you walk down the street? How about that crazy homeless guy on the corner, do you just randomly start loving him? Well, I guess because love is irrational, that makes it fine to stay with a partner that doesn't give a shit about you? It's human to move the hell on from those types of relationships.
> 
> TL;DR: love being irrational is a ridiculous cop-out.


Stop with the 'all feelings are rational' crap man. Yes, people tend to feel a certain way about others because of some rational explanation, but there is a degree of irrational attraction that plays into stuff as well. This is amplified when someone is physically/romantically attracted to an individual. That attraction isn't going to simply go away because someone is acting like a jerk. It makes _sense_ to stop caring because of that, it's _rational_,* but people don't work like that.* The most one can hope for is that they stay away from the person hurting them rather than go crawling back because they just can't get over them. Maybe in time they'll get over it, but one cannot just turn off their feelings.

Even if Sakura's love was built off an idealized version of Sasuke, learning who he truly is isn't going to cut those feelings off right away. Something is going to linger whether she likes it or not, and it's quite apparent she doesn't like it.


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## mayumi (May 25, 2011)

PikaCheeka said:


> You've never met anyone who loved someone who didn't appear to care about them and even treated them badly in the past? You must live in an AU.



most normal people would try to get help in that case. not i am going to stick with the abusive guy who doesn't even give a crap. would you not encourage that?


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## erivar (May 25, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> ...and the stupidity starts. That's like comparing Zero and Sasuke because they both have cold demeanors and are "rivals", that is about the only similarity...I could just list the differences in their character but that would do no good, and I think it'd go on for a while.
> 
> The most defining difference I will point out though is their perceptions on the idea of personal responsibility, and most importantly, the past.



 I was a huge fan of Yugi-Oh and I actually liked Seto Kaiba for the same reasons i am fond of Sasuke. To me they have many similarities. I like darker characters most often than not. The only difference is that you and i perceive them differently to the point that you think they are justly different when i don't see that much of a basic difference besides the obvious. The concept of perception and opinion is grand isn't it? 

Yugi was boring and awful. His alter ego was much cooler and how Yugi-Oh and Seto Kaiba interacted was the best part of that series to me.


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## Arles Celes (May 25, 2011)

Is Sakura any dumber than Sasuke himself though? How is his desire for revenge any better than Sakura's crush?

At the very least Sakura realizes that Sasuke is in the wrong and even tried to force herself to give up on him despite the fact that she still loves him.

Did Sasuke ever made the slightest attempt to leave his hatred and revenge behind him?

Eventually Naruto will make him give up on revenge as unlike bonds of friendship/love it is the only one that Kishi considers wrong.

To him Naruto and Sakura clinging to their feelings for Sasuke despite the odds is a good thing. Obviously they are lucky that this is a shounen manga, otherwise...

Sasuke really will have to work HARD in order to repay those two for their blind devotion.


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## Jin-E (May 25, 2011)

nadinkrah said:


> Kaiba is not evil though



Torturing his rival's grandpa infront of his eyes while laughing strikes me as pretty evil and sadistic.


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## Seto Kaiba (May 25, 2011)

Bellville said:


> Stop with the 'all feelings are rational' crap man. Yes, people tend to feel a certain way about others because of some rational explanation, but there is a degree of irrational attraction that plays into stuff as well. This is amplified when someone is physically/romantically attracted to an individual. That attraction isn't going to simply go away because someone is acting like a jerk. It makes _sense_ to stop caring because of that, it's _rational_,* but people don't work like that.*



I work like that...

If one cannot make sense of their feelings, or cannot comfortably convince themselves on why the feel a certain way about an individual, than any prospects of forming or maintaining a relationship with said person will be doomed for failure. Feelings have to make sense and be rational for any relationship based on those feelings to work in the long run. If feelings for an individual are clearly detrimental to the person's well-being and happiness, then there needs to be a strong effort to rid of those feelings. That's not just the rational thing to do, it's the healthy thing, and it can be done.


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## MissingShinobi (May 25, 2011)

I'd think of it as idiotic if she was totally unaware of how pathetic it is.. but she's aware of it. Well aware of it, as she planned to kill the guy. That makes it seem more pitiful than idiotic to me, especially at this point in the story. Sakura fell in 'love' with Sasuke because he was cool and attractive. Her basis for 'loving' him in the first place was pretty petty. She went chasing after him and has been pining over a childhood crush that never 'loved' her back. For little reason than 'he was handsome.' Then, it was wanting to save Sasuke from his darkness, regardless of the fact that the man told you that you annoy him, though he's appreciative. 

To go this far for somebody that she was only infatuated with is a little silly on Kishi's part. Common sense should tell him it's time to make Sakura move on. At least Sasuke acknowledged that Naruto was his best friend during their skirmish. Best she ever got was a knock out thank you.


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## Mr Horrible (May 25, 2011)

erivar said:


> Love can be irrational. If you don't understand how that can be, then that is your problem not mine. I never once said that i agreed with her being in love with him and that i think it makes sense. It doesn't make sense sometimes hence why it is irrational. I mean we have people, men and woman touting that they fell in love when in reality, all that happened was they were infatuated and lusting after the person's body. I suppose to you, that kind of "love" is rational. High schoolers and elementary schoolers in love is rational to you.



Love is reasonably rational. If you are in love with someone and are asked why you love them, wouldn't you be able to list several reasons? It also makes sense that Sakura had a crush on Sasuke, hell when it upgraded to love it's doubtful she even knew the real Sasuke. Either way, there were several things that attracted Sakura to Sasuke.

Also the difference between love and lust is quite easy to tell. Now if you were to define what exactly romantic love is, that would be a reasonable challenge. I just find the handwave that is 'love is irrational' to be such a cheap cop out.

What grade is elementary school? As it must be before high school (which for me is grades 8-12, ages 13-17), it seems weird for children to be lusting after each other before that :S.



> I once fell for a guy who later turned out to be a douche for a particular reason i would say ran counter to my values such as playing two girls at once who were my friends. Even after 6 months, i still had feelings for him. But you see, there was no way in hell i planned to run with those feelings. If he had come up to me and asked me out, i would have punched him in his baby maker and ripped him a new one. In fact, i stopped being his friend and only tolerated him because of a good friend of mine liked him. I didn't expect her to uphold the same values that made him a scum in my eyes. We were two different people after all. But while i tried to distance myself from him, my stupid heart still had feelings for him till i got over them and felt much better.



When you fell for him, I assume there were reasons. Hence love is inherently rational, just hard to rid yourself of. Generally we fall in love with an idealized notion of the opposite party and it's sometimes pretty jarring when that illusion shatters. I guess my point would be up until now Sakura still didn't know how far Sasuke had fallen (assuming she actually knew who genin!Sasuke was).



> So you see, i can only agree with Sakura being an idiot if in the future she still tried to enter a relationship with Sasuke after all that had happened. How is she still staying with him right now? And currently, that hasn't happened.  And it is obvious that she doesn't feel happy that she still has feelings for him so i think the bigger idiots are the people who can't see that.



Ok.

Edit: 





Bellville said:


> Stop with the 'all feelings are rational' crap man. Yes, people tend to feel a certain way about others because of some rational explanation, but there is a degree of irrational attraction that plays into stuff as well. This is amplified when someone is physically/romantically attracted to an individual. That attraction isn't going to simply go away because someone is acting like a jerk. It makes _sense_ to stop caring because of that, it's _rational_,* but people don't work like that.* The most one can hope for is that they stay away from the person hurting them rather than go crawling back because they just can't get over them. Maybe in time they'll get over it, but one cannot just turn off their feelings.



Sure, it's hard to rid yourself of old feelings even once you decide you don't want to feel that way. However I certainly have never just fallen in love with someone for no apparent reason. Hell even crushes are usually sparked by some event.


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## Jeαnne (May 25, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> Is Sakura any dumber than Sasuke himself though? How is his desire for revenge any better than Sakura's crush?






you cant really compare the motivation of a life destroyed by the massacre of your family, your clan, and the illusion of thinking that your brother was responsible for this until you caused his death Y_Y...sasuke is crazy and dumb but he has enough motivation for this


but what exacly motivated sakura's feeling towards sasuke? his awesome looks, his cool attitude...it was all superficial, she didnt really know him deep enough 


now about naruto, i can see where he is coming from when its about saving sasuke, thats why i support naruto but not sakura


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## Jewsco (May 25, 2011)

this is actually not that unbelievable. how many (male and female) stay in or go back in abusive relationship. and add to the fact she is a young teenager he is her first crush. most people no matter how old remember and still have feelings for a first crush. 
people are wanting her to get over him when in the real world wife beaters and assholes always get the women and even sometimes man).


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## Arles Celes (May 25, 2011)

Jeαnne said:


> you cant really compare the motivation of a life destroyed by the massacre of your family, your clan, and the illusion of thinking that your brother was responsible for this until you caused his death Y_Y...sasuke is crazy and dumb but he has enough motivation for this
> 
> 
> but what exacly motivated sakura's feeling towards sasuke? his awesome looks, his cool attitude...it was all superficial, she didnt really know him deep enough
> ...



The thing about Sakura loving Sasuke is hardly much different than Naruto loving Sakura.

Why Naruto ever loved Sakura when she was mean to him(just like Sasuke was mean to Sakura) and seemed to be attracted to her only because he found her cute.

The thing about SasuNaru is that Kishi gave Naruto looots of panels of him thinking about Sasuke(a luxury because of him MC status) AND working hard in order to "save" him. With Sakura though we never had any training sesion besides when she asked Tsunade to train her.

Perhaps Sakura actually trains hard even now but Kishi does not show that as he considers her mostly irrelevant.

My main problem with the NaruSasu bond is that (like with SasuSaku) Sasuke through the whole part 2 thinks about Naruto about as much as he thinks about Sakura and attempts to kill them just as often. It makes Naruto's bond look as onesided as Sakura's crush on Sasuke.

I'm hardly a fan of it but the only mutual bond is currently ItaSasu, as they both care deeply for each other.


----------



## Bellville (May 25, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> I work like that...
> 
> If one cannot make sense of their feelings, or cannot comfortably convince themselves on why the feel a certain way about an individual, than any prospects of forming or maintaining a relationship with said person will be doomed for failure. Feelings have to make sense and be rational for any relationship based on those feelings to work in the long run. If feelings for an individual are clearly detrimental to the person's well-being and happiness, then there needs to be a strong effort to rid of those feelings. That's not just the rational thing to do, it's the healthy thing, and it can be done.



Good thing I wasn't talking about making a lasting relationship based on said irrational feelings, then...


----------



## Enclave (May 25, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> The thing about Sakura loving Sasuke is hardly much different than Naruto loving Sakura.
> 
> Why Naruto ever loved Sakura when she was mean to him(just like Sasuke was mean to Sakura) and seemed to be attracted to her only because he found her cute.
> 
> ...



The difference is that Naruto has had all of part 2 to further get to know Sakura and to get closer to her while Sakura has only experienced Sasuke trying to kill her in part 2.

There's a huge difference there you know.


----------



## Cornbreesha (May 25, 2011)

MCHammerdad said:


> After 2 attempted murders she still loves him...  sasuke must have something special all the girls like.




argh..I have yet to understand Sakura's Feeling for Sasuke. 

But it's obivous that Sakura's feelings are not going anywhere. (I like them together in Fanon)
Neither is Hinata's feelings...

Or Naruto's feeling. ...

Painful Pairing war is Painful.


----------



## M4verick (May 25, 2011)

Sakura is indeed an idiot.


----------



## Juk3n (May 25, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> The thing about Sakura loving Sasuke is hardly much different than Naruto loving Sakura.
> 
> Why Naruto ever loved Sakura when she was mean to him(just like Sasuke was mean to Sakura) and seemed to be attracted to her only because he found her cute.



They both started off as simple crushes - the difference is that one of the relationships developed far more believably than the other imo.

After all that Naruto and Sakura have been through together in part 1 and 2, I can understand why he loves her and why she may some day reciprocate it. 

On the other hand, with each passing chapter I find it harder and harder to empathize or understand Sakura's "love" for Sasuke, other than Kishimoto has willed it into being.


----------



## Arles Celes (May 25, 2011)

Enclave said:


> The difference is that Naruto has had all of part 2 to further get to know Sakura and to get closer to her while Sakura has only experienced Sasuke trying to kill her in part 2.
> 
> There's a huge difference there you know.



Even though part 2 is huge for us, to the characters in the manga itself only a year had passed since part 2 started. And Naruto was gone for for 3 years during which he hardly interacted with Sakura.

Besides even when he returned he mostly spent time training in order to get ready for Sasuke rather than enjoying his time with Sakura.

And about Sasuke trying to kill Sakura...he attempted to kill Naruto waaay before he tried to kill her.

Sasuke treated them both equally in part 1(mostly with indifference) and now they are equally obsessed with him.

As weird as it sounds though, before Itachi kicked the crap out of Sasuke there were even a few hints that Sasuke might feel some attraction towards Sakura...he even seemed kinda jealous when Sakura was impressed with Naruto's progress.

Oh well, its all back to chapter 3 right now with all characters having equally one sided feelings as they did back then...


----------



## Leptirica (May 25, 2011)

I'd like to remind you that Sakura almost killed Sasuke. Just because she wasn't fucked up in the head enough to actually go through with it doesn't change the fact that she meant to do it, planned it. 

Having a crush like that makes you emotionally messed up, but Sakura isn't a relationship victim. Stop talking like Sasuke is a wife beater when all he did was treat her just like he treated Kakashi and Naruto, an ex-teammate turned enemy.


----------



## Enclave (May 25, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> Even though part 2 is huge for us, to the character in the manga itself only a year had passed since part 2 started. And Naruto was gone for for 3 years during which he hardly interacted with Sakura.
> 
> Besides even when he returned he mostly spent time training in order to get ready for Sasuke rather than enjoying his time with Sakura.
> 
> ...



I've been with my girlfriend for less than 2 years.  Took me less than a year to fall in love with her and I'm getting ready to propose to her now.

1 year is certainly more than enough time for them to fall in love.

Comparing Narutos feelings for Sakura to Sakuras feelings for Sasuke really is not possible.  Narutos feelings at least have a realistic base to build upon.  The same is just not true for Sakuras feelings for Sasuke.  It's too unbelievable.

Now, as a Hinata fan I like the fact that Hinata is still in love with Naruto and that it's still possible for that pairing to happen.  But that said, it's not the most realistic pairing.  While it's more believable than Sasu/Saku it's still not very believable.  Really what it boils down to is that Kishi is complete shit at writing female characters.


----------



## M4verick (May 25, 2011)

Leptirica said:


> I'd like to remind you that Sakura almost killed Sasuke. Just because she wasn't fucked up in the head enough to actually go through with it doesn't change the fact that she meant to do it, planned it.
> 
> Having a crush like that makes you emotionally messed up, but Sakura isn't a relationship victim. Stop talking like Sasuke is a wife beater when all he did was treat her just like he treated Kakashi and Naruto, an ex-teammate turned enemy.



So your saying Sakura wasn't justified in trying to kill Sasuke and Sasuke was justified an trying to kill Sakura?


----------



## Juk3n (May 25, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> Sasuke treated them both equally in part 1(mostly with indifference) and now they are equally obsessed with him.



Except Sasuke acknowledged Naruto first as a worthy rival and then as a best friend at the end of part 1...


----------



## Leptirica (May 25, 2011)

M4verick said:


> So your saying Sakura wasn't justified in trying to kill Sasuke and Sasuke was justified an trying to kill Sakura?



No, I'm saying that Sakura isn't a relationship victim.


----------



## Naruku (May 25, 2011)

she was officially an idiot a long time ago. this isn't news.


----------



## Enclave (May 25, 2011)

Leptirica said:


> No, I'm saying that Sakura isn't a relationship victim.



She may not be one but she sure as hell is acting like one, thus the very deserved flak she's getting.


----------



## SasukeUchihaha (May 25, 2011)

Sakura Haters- The worst of the Hatedumb


----------



## kenage (May 25, 2011)

The obsession Sakura profess for Sasuke is the classic teenager irrational bullshit teens try to picture as love, if anything she may be one of the few character acting according to her age.

Ken

P.D. I still think the character is awful though.


----------



## Superstars (May 25, 2011)

Wow, keep showing you people just hate to hate because Sakura didn't look like a fool at all she did the foolin and the raping.


----------



## Leptirica (May 25, 2011)

Enclave said:


> She may not be one but she sure as hell is acting like one, thus the very deserved flak she's getting.




She has her bad moments occasionally, sure. But there were none in this chapter.


----------



## Naruku (May 25, 2011)

Superstars said:


> Wow, keep showing you people just hate to hate because Sakura didn't look like a fool at all she did the foolin and the raping.


the OP meant her love for sasuke, and what rape? she didn't even kill the zetsu.


----------



## Arles Celes (May 25, 2011)

Enclave said:


> I've been with my girlfriend for less than 2 years.  Took me less than a year to fall in love with her and I'm getting ready to propose to her now.
> 
> 1 year is certainly more than enough time for them to fall in love.
> 
> ...



Well... in part 1 Sasuke was with team 7 for about a year too so her initial shallow feelings about him could have grown into something deeper.

I guess to each of us depending of our characters and the circumstances we live in the time that takes us to fall in love with other peaople is different.

Ironically it was Sakura who understood Sasuke the most in part 1 as she predicted that Sasuke would most likely attempt to leave Konoha in search of power.

Naruto on the other hand, even when Sakura told him about Oro's desire to turn him to his side still believed that Sasuke wont abandon Konoha. Who was wrong at the end?

And regarding NaruHina I do not necessarily think that it is more believable than SasuSaku, but as of now it is definitely more healthy.


----------



## Superstars (May 25, 2011)

Naruku said:


> the OP meant her love for sasuke, and what rape? she didn't even kill the zetsu.



I'm talkin about the negative posts in the thread. Also that Zetsu needs to be alive to get info, lulz.


----------



## AKmyWaffle (May 25, 2011)

FallenAngelII said:


> Did you just claim that the average woman is bipolar?



Well nobody is disagreeing with me so I must be right. 

What I meant is that Sakura represents the average bipolar woman. Inner Sakura and everything...


----------



## BrokenBonds (May 25, 2011)

Can't help who you love... Also, is this actually shocking to any of you, really? If so then the lot of you are A class retarded .


----------



## Enclave (May 25, 2011)

Leptirica said:


> No, I'm saying that Sakura isn't a relationship victim.





Arles Celes said:


> Well... in part 1 Sasuke was with team 7 for about a year too so her initial shallow feelings about him could have grown into something deeper.
> 
> I guess to each of us depending of our characters and the circumstances we live in the time that takes us to fall in love with other peaople is different.
> 
> ...



You'll not find a 12 year old who actually knows what romantic love is.  So Part 1 doesn't mean much.


----------



## Arles Celes (May 25, 2011)

Juk3n said:


> Except Sasuke acknowledged Naruto first as a worthy rival and then as a best friend at the end of part 1...



Sasuke immediately followed said declaration with a, "You wont be able to even scratch my forehead though".

Which means that he hardly considered Naruto as a truly worthy rival back then.

And regarding the best friend thing...considering that it was followed by a chidori through Naruto's shoulder, it was far nastier IMO than a knockout thank you to Sakura.


----------



## Gregory House (May 25, 2011)

Enclave said:


> I've been with my girlfriend for less than 2 years.  Took me less than a year to fall in love with her and I'm getting ready to propose to her now.
> 
> 1 year is certainly more than enough time for them to fall in love.
> 
> ...



Thank You for saying what had to be said. Naruto and Sakura are the only logical pair in this manga. Everyone seems to think that all these events are happening one after another that's not the case. While Naruto was gone for 3 years or so he did come back and has worked with Sakura. He most likely has hung out with her when he did have off days and wasn't training. 

Their relationship is less one sided then the one she has with Sasuke. They actually know each other and care about each other. Naruto for one actually loves her. He puts her feelings before his and is even willing to bring back someone she "loves" just to make her happy.Thats what you do for people you love not try to kill them. Sasuke has no i repeat no inkling that he cares for the girl and would of killed her if it meant that he could of succeed in his mission.


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## Ultimania (May 25, 2011)

What puzzles me is that Sakura has Naruto but she rather get into Sasuke's pants (who does not give a shit about her).

Perhaps Kishi DOES suck at romance after all.


----------



## Bellville (May 25, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> Sasuke immediately followed said declaration with a, "You wont be able to even scratch my forehead though".
> 
> Which means that he hardly considered Naruto as a truly worthy rival back then.
> 
> And regarding the best friend thing...considering that it was followed by a chidori through Naruto's shoulder, it was far nastier IMO than a knockout thank you to Sakura.


Sasuke was trying to kill Naruto to get the mangekyo sharingan. He did this because Naruto was his closest friend and this was a requirement to gain that power.

Note that Sasuke didn't kill unnecessarily at that point, there was no point in injuring Sakura when she was not even a serious threat.

And on the point of Sakura understanding Sasuke? It wasn't understanding so much as distrust based on seeing him falling into darkness, whereas both Kakashi and Naruto trusted that he wouldn't fall so far as to abandon the village. Besides, argue about that all you want, the manga contradicts Sakura's "understanding" of Sasuke through and through, and now the anime is doing it too.


----------



## AKmyWaffle (May 25, 2011)

Ultimania said:


> What puzzles me is that Sakura has Naruto but she rather get into Sasuke's pants (who does not give a shit about her).
> 
> Perhaps Kishi DOES suck at romance after all.



Naruto has himself as well (Kage Bunshin) but he would still rather get into Sasuke's pants. 

It's obvious that Sasuke has a magic penis which grants wishes.


----------



## Naruku (May 25, 2011)

Superstars said:


> I'm talkin about the negative posts in the thread. Also that Zetsu needs to be alive to get info, lulz.


what info ? if the zetsu is dead, people still know it's a zetsu.


----------



## Supa Swag (May 25, 2011)

BrokenBonds said:


> Can't help who you love...



So many of us can expect to fall for this dude:



I mean...if you can't help who you love and all.


----------



## Enclave (May 25, 2011)

Ultimania said:


> Perhaps Kishi DOES suck at romance after all.



If you ask me?  He's so bad at it that I think he shouldn't even try to include it in the manga at all.  The manga would probably be better if all the relationship crap was cut out of it.

If he was actually good at writing relationships then it would add to the story but instead his writing does nothing but make people annoyed by how unrealistic the developments are.


----------



## Arles Celes (May 25, 2011)

Enclave said:


> You'll not find a 12 year old who actually knows what romantic love is.  So Part 1 doesn't mean much.



If we go by that then even now they hardly should know what true love is, as they are still immature teenagers.

Then again Kishi's perspective may greatly wary as he wouldn't made Sakura to be still in love with Sasuke after what he did.

Just like Naruto is pretty stubborn about his feelings so is Sakura. He is just as abused by Sasuke as she, and yet Kishi portrays said determination as something admirable and not foolish/immature despite everyone telling Naruto otherwise.

This manga is rather idealistic despite the angst with Sasuke and as such the immature Naruto will put to shame his elders with his naive wisdom.


----------



## Juk3n (May 25, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> Sasuke immediately followed said declaration with a, "You wont be able to even scratch my forehead though".



I was referring to the, "You're one of the ones I want to fight the most" quote from the chunin preliminaries, which Naruto feels is the first time Sasuke truly acknowledged him as a worthwhile shinobi. 

As for the scratch my forehead declaration, if you read between the lines a bit I think that was more Sasuke trying to reassure himself of his superiority after witnessing all of Naruto's amazing growth (particularly the Gaara battle). It's not like Sasuke didn't see Naruto as a tough opponent; rather, he didn't want him to see him as one.


----------



## Enclave (May 25, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> If we go by that then even now they hardly should know what true love is, as they are still immature teenagers.
> 
> Then again Kishi's perspective may greatly wary as he wouldn't made Sakura to be still in love with Sasuke after what he did.
> 
> ...



By 15/16 you can certainly be mature enough to really know romantic love.  Not everybody is mature enough at that point but there are people who are.

Really at that age?  3 years makes a huge difference on the emotional maturity of most people.  There's a reason it's often perfectly legal for 15 or 16 year olds to engage in consensual sex but not legal for 12 or 13 year olds to do so.


----------



## Raiden (May 25, 2011)

I think the chapter could have done better without it.


----------



## Chain Reaction (May 25, 2011)

It doesn't matter that he tried to kill her, Sasuke is a _great guy._
Even the manga confirmed it.

Damnit guys, you need to see into these kind of things.


----------



## Arles Celes (May 25, 2011)

Bellville said:


> Sasuke was trying to kill Naruto to get the mangekyo sharingan. He did this because Naruto was his closest friend and this was a requirement to gain that power.
> 
> Note that Sasuke didn't kill unnecessarily at that point, there was no point in injuring Sakura when she was not even a serious threat.
> 
> And on the point of Sakura understanding Sasuke? It wasn't understanding so much as distrust based on seeing him falling into darkness, whereas both Kakashi and Naruto trusted that he wouldn't fall so far as to abandon the village. Besides, argue about that all you want, the manga contradicts Sakura's "understanding" of Sasuke through and through, and now the anime is doing it too.



Trying to kill someone for power is hardly "friendly" either.

And when they meet a few years ago he wanted to kill him as he said "on a whim". Ironically he did not wish to kill anyone else on a whim at that time...

Sakura understood him by realizing what being an avenger meant to him and how much he is in pain due to the loss of his family(which she said to him during her confession). Naruto back then only saw Sasuke as a rival though and didn't give Sasuke's behavior much though.

In part 2 neither of them is able  to understand him any longer though.

...At least till Madara tells Naruto why Sasuke is doing what he is doing. 

I'm still having trouble imagining a "happy ending" for Sasuke. His whole life was focused around his clan so once he lets his family rest in peace once and for all what will be left for him? Perhaps death is not such an unlikely scenario for him.


----------



## Ultimania (May 25, 2011)

Chain Reaction said:


> It doesn't matter that he tried to kill her, Sasuke is a _great guy._
> Even *fodder* confirmed it.
> 
> Damnit guys, you need to see into these kind of things.



I fixed that for you. 

Sasuke is badass and evil, but I would not call him ''great''.


----------



## AKmyWaffle (May 25, 2011)

What do people want from Sasuke? He has killed more villains than any other character, why shouldn't the fodder think he is great?


----------



## Chain Reaction (May 25, 2011)

Ultimania said:


> I fixed that for you.
> 
> Sasuke is badass and evil, but I would not call him ''great''.



Thank you for the unnecessary fix on my sarcastic comment.
Very much appreciated.


----------



## Arles Celes (May 25, 2011)

Enclave said:


> By 15/16 you can certainly be mature enough to really know romantic love.  Not everybody is mature enough at that point but there are people who are.
> 
> Really at that age?  3 years makes a huge difference on the emotional maturity of most people.  There's a reason it's often perfectly legal for 15 or 16 year olds to engage in consensual sex but not legal for 12 or 13 year olds to do so.



One could argue that shinobi mature earlier than regular people due to facing death so often and at such an early age and by facing a huge responsibility due to their positions....

The only problem is that in this manga many characters hardly changed(especially Sasuke and Sakura ironically). Even Naruto(power aside) behaves just like he did at the end of part 1.
Then again Sakura at least tries to be useful for her village unlike during part 1 when she was hardly a help for said village.

Well, in that case as you mantioned perhaps Sakura, Hinata, and Naruto really know what love is even though their approach towards it is the same as before timeskip.

And they are all equally one sided...


----------



## Enclave (May 25, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> One could argue that shinobi mature earlier than regular people due to facing death so often and at such an early age and by facing a huge responsibility due to their positions....
> 
> The only problem is that in this manga many characters hardly changed(especially Sasuke and Sakura ironically). Even Naruto(power aside) behaves just like he did at the end of part 1.
> Then again Sakura at least tries to be useful for her village unlike during part 1 when she was hardly a help for said village.
> ...



Oh what I'm talking about has nothing to do with it being one sided as one sided love happens all the time.  I'm just talking about the actual feelings being unrealistic based on circumstance.

Hinatas feelings for Naruto are unlikely to have lasted so long based on how little contact they've had over the years.  However her falling in love with Naruto more recently is possible thanks to his being the hero of the village.  He saved all their lives, there's probably a few women in the village who are starting to fall in love with Naruto.

Naruto though has not had nearly enough contact with Hinata though to have developed anything more than feelings of friendship, even taking into account her failed attempt to save his life against Pain.

See, all I'm saying is that the ONLY relationship that potentially would makes sense out of the big 3 ships is the Naru/Saku one.  It's the only one that would have any kind of realistic development.  It's the only one I can actually look at and say "yes, Kishi actually did portray that one at least somewhat well".

Another ship that I could potentially buy would be Chouji and Ino.


----------



## T-Bag (May 25, 2011)

Love is crazy. Or so I hear.


----------



## Bellville (May 25, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> Trying to kill someone for power is hardly "friendly" either.


Your original point:





Arles Celes said:


> And about Sasuke trying to kill Sakura...he attempted to kill Naruto waaay before he tried to kill her.


My point was to differentiate between both attacks. Sasuke had a reason to kill Naruto at that time, pressured to gain power to avenge his family and kill his hated brother. His reasoning behind trying to kill Sakura? There wasn't one, and it was fucked up even in the eyes of other members of "the shinobi world". They aren't equal, whether you want to admit to that or not, the facts are still there in plain sight.


> he even seemed kinda jealous when Sakura was impressed with Naruto's progress.


It was evident that he was jealous of Naruto's progress, not that Sakura was impressed with Naruto, if his obsessing and freaking out over Naruto surpassing him was any indication.


> Sakura understood him by realizing what being an avenger meant to him and how much he is in pain due to the loss of his family(which she said to him during her confession). Naruto back then only saw Sasuke as a rival though and didn't give Sasuke's behavior much though.


VotE reveals this claim to be bullshit.


----------



## Raiden (May 25, 2011)

T-Bag said:


> Love is crazy. Or so I hear.



And so are suicidal teens bent on murdering people .


----------



## shyakugaun (May 25, 2011)

AKmyWaffle said:


> What do people want from Sasuke? He has killed more villains than any other character, why shouldn't the fodder think he is great?



this he has one of the most impressive stat sheets


----------



## Rabbit and Rose (May 25, 2011)

I wouldn't get close to a guy who tries to kill me.


----------



## Fourangers (May 25, 2011)

Arles Celes said:


> And when they meet a few years ago he wanted to kill him as he said "on a whim". Ironically he did not wish to kill anyone else on a whim at that time...



Uh huh. Forgetting that few panels ago, Sasuke was reassuring Naruto that he didn't want to kill Naruto at that time because he didn't want to obey Itachi's path. And then he said that he threw his bonds with Naruto away that's why he could kill Naruto in cold blood; "on a whim", as he said. He was trying to validate a point and guess what, didn't work and it doesn't work till now. 



> Sakura understood him by realizing what being an avenger meant to him and how much he is in pain due to the loss of his family(which she said to him during her confession).



She doesn't! She said herself that she has family and friends so she doesn't understand his pain but if "he left she would be lonely too." Yep, because the pain of a guy who you have a crush on leaving is waaaay worse than a pain from your mother or father leaving. She was trying to make Sasuke emotionally guilty to coerce him to stay in Konoha.

She said herself that he never said anything to her, he never opened himself to her. She admitted that she doesn't understand him BACK IN PART 1. And where the hell does she understand what being an avenger meant to him?



> Naruto back then only saw Sasuke as a rival though and didn't give Sasuke's behavior much though.



Because working so hard to the point of exhaustion, bowing down to Raikage, receiving punches for his sake, just to get his "rival" back makes sense. Of course, how could I not notice that.



> In part 2 neither of them is able  to understand him any longer though.
> 
> ...At least till Madara tells Naruto why Sasuke is doing what he is doing.



And in the chapter Madara appears on Naruto's inn, Naruto was thinking about Sasuke and nailed the fact that even though Sasuke succeeded in killing Itachi, he must be in unbearable pain. That's pretty much accurate in describing Sasuke's problem.


----------



## ch1p (May 25, 2011)

Bellville said:


> Sakura's greatest and most difficult to overcome flaw is her love for Sasuke. It imprisons her. It brings her down. She feels like shit about it. She looks stupid because of it. The best that can be done for her is to have her get over him. She's _finally_ acknowledging that he's a dirtbag. This is where the road forks: she either continues to pine for him and wants to be with him even after all the shit he's put her through or she refuses to pursue him romantically, _possibly_ taking one step closer to getting over him. Because even when he wasn't trying to murder her and all of her friends, she still felt like dirt about their relationship.



This is where our opinions diverge. I don't believe that people are better or worse for what they have. It's what they do with it that it counts. In this case, I don't care if Sakura loves Sasuke or not. It's how she deals with it that is important to me.



Seto Kaiba said:


> You don't see being in love with a genocidal maniac a *little* flawed?


How is this her fault? You choose who fall in love with? As a teenager no less?



> That's because it is. This isn't a dispute or an opinion, that's just the simple truth of the matter.


So what of it? Being your opinion or the truth in the manga doesn't change her feelings.



> She herself is unsure about it! She herself doubts it so many times and it brings her so much angst and pain over it.


Sakura loves him now (or thinks she does for the skeptic) and she's sure of it. What's her doubts in the past have to do with her present feelings?



> He's not one trying, wanting, or expecting to start a romantic relationship with a killer. This thing by bringing up Sasuke and Naruto or other bonds is pretty weak. You have to take into account the nature of their relationship and the story behind it, but you aren't.



You're making this way too literal. What does it matter if Hiruzen did not wanted jump into Orochimaru's pants? Do we even know if Sakura believes Sasuke can be redeemed only to to jump into his pants? When she decided to kill him, she was going to do it for his / Naruto's / village sake, not for their unborn Uchiha heirs. Why can't the situation the same?



> That doesn't mean anything for SasuSaku. What of it? That sounds like you're just ignoring things that are an inconvenience. It matters a huge deal.



You said the two of them had no significant bond but yes they do. Going from indifference to wanting to lay down his life for her is significant. It doesn't matter if it's romantic or not.



> It does not refute the point that her crush on Sasuke is her among her biggest flaws, or the cause of some of her biggest flaws.



The flaw is not her love for Sasuke but her emotions (she admitted it so in Wave arc). It has always been difficult for her to detach herself from said emotions and be objective. It wouldn't have changed any less if she had fallen in love with someone else. They would probably treat her better, maybe, but her inheritent problems with dealing with emotions would not have been miraculously cured. It's like someone whose overly dependent of their romantic partners, someone who is afraid of commitment, etc. Their problems won't change if they switch partners, and they'll haunt them forever if they don't resolve them. It's an issue that lies with them and them alone and they won't be happy anyone if they don't sort these things out. Sakura would be as much hopeless as she was in Part I if she had fallen in love with Naruto / Lee / Kiba / Chouji / whoever.



> Again, no it isn't. She has constantly had doubts and has even given up. It's artificially sustained by Naruto's faith in Sasuke. She believes in Naruto who believes in Sasuke. She basically expects Naruto to do all the work, and clearly expects to reap benefits from his effort.



I never said I liked that idiotic resolution of hers. She's giving up on herself and I hate it. If there's no development in that front, I won't like it either, SasuSaku canon or not. But as you've said, Sakura doubts herself often. It's part of the fragments of her non confident childhood. I believe it will change because that's what Sakura always does. She is defeated and she doubts herself, she aknowledges her flaws and then sets a plan to overcome it. The manga has not yet ended.



> Another weak method of dragging other incomparable bonds into this. The argument I made for Naruto/Sasuke earlier and part of what I made for Oro/Sarutobi applies to this too. These aren't even close to what Sasuke and Sakura was (or wasn't) and you are ignoring the bonds and the story on a major scale by claiming so.



How's it different? I don't recall one moment where Jirayia and Orochimaru had one single positive interaction to warrant his guilt and sadness for not helping his friend and to feel personally touched when Naruto refused to take his advice in forgetting about Sasuke. Sakura and Sasuke have had plenty of positive interaction when they were teammates. Sasuke was prepared to give his life for Sakura, who he considered an important person to him. Orochimaru was never shown to have that kind of feeling towards Jiraiya. And yet, Jiraiya believes their bond was strong. Sakura gets shit yet again.



> The thing about it is, they weren't important.


To _you_. To her and her character development, yes they were. Fangirls don't take their idols out of their pedestal. Sakura didn't see Sasuke as perfect, or at least, learnt he wasn't.



> Sakura clings to the ideal of Sasuke that probably was never there. Her feelings among anyone else's except maybe Karin's are the most shallow in basis and motivation.



It was there, otherwise why would Kishi lose time in showing Sasuke travelling from indifference for caring about his teammates so much? He was not the arsehole he is right now. They're all clinging to the positive that Sasuke had in Part I, which is undeniable. It remains to be seen if that positive is still there.



> She didn't have a choice really, he tried to kill her three times.


What's that to do what I even said?



> It does. It only shows that the fangirl or worse is still there. I want her to be different from that girl in ch. 3, and I don't think people will see past that girl in Ch.3 until she gets over Sasuke.


If you believe she's still the same character she was in chapter 3 then you're missing all the character development. She had a lot of flaws in the beginning and these wouldn't change if she had crushed on Kiba or Naruto or Neji or Lee. They would still be there. Her surpassing her crush is nor here nor there in her character development. Would you be okay if she forgot about Sasuke at this moment and then started fangirling over Shino and behaving in the exact same way she was doing back then, since you believe she hasn't changed and is still a fangirl?



> The manga's theme has NOTHING to do with Sasuke and Sakura. Don't try to warp it like it does.


It's about bonds, lol. I never said it was about Sasuke and Sakura.



> What did I just tell you? Sakura's feelings for Sasuke overshadows her character.


To you, who can't see past her love for Sasuke.



> She loved him as Sakura did. The difference is Karin had the strength to move on despite how painful the experience of his betrayal was. Sakura will always be overshadowed by this when comparing the two. Karin could easily steal the show from her, because she has already shown the emotional and mental strength that Sakura has been lacking for a long time.



I'm not going to go and defend Karin up on this too, sorry. The post is already huge as it is.



> You are being shortsighted about this.



I'm seeing past Sakura's fucking infatuation, seeing plenty of other things to like and not constantly pining her flaws on her romantic decisions and I'm the shortsighted one? Okay.



Rosie said:


> She's not stupid, Kishi just doesn't understand that a man beating his wife --or wannabe girlfriend--in public hasn't been socially acceptable since, like, the middle ages



And murdering attempts and violence between two friends who see each other as _brothers_ is acceptable? WTF is wrong with you people? I get it not liking how the manga treats bonds but the double standards, for fuck's sake.



Leptirica said:


> I'd like to remind you that Sakura almost killed Sasuke. Just because she wasn't fucked up in the head enough to actually go through with it doesn't change the fact that she meant to do it, planned it.
> 
> Having a crush like that makes you emotionally messed up, but Sakura isn't a relationship victim. Stop talking like Sasuke is a wife beater when all he did was treat her just like he treated Kakashi and Naruto, an ex-teammate turned enemy.



*THIS.*


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## Omnipotent Pirate (May 25, 2011)

Why does nobody give naruto shit for still loving sasuke. Sakura didn't faint when she decided sasuke needed to die.


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## MasterSitsu (May 25, 2011)

Omnipotent Pirate said:


> Why does nobody give naruto shit for still loving sasuke. Sakura didn't faint when she decided sasuke needed to die.


Except Naruto can actually do something about sasuke.


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## Kage (May 25, 2011)

and naruto's not waiting for sakura to make it all better for him either.


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## Centeolt (May 25, 2011)

Sakura is likely the "girl that want love but can't find it because of her own personal view of it" of a manga.

She'll find it someday... but not with either Sakuke or by the end of the story.


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## Omnipotent Pirate (May 25, 2011)

MasterSitsu said:


> Except Naruto can actually do something about sasuke.



So he's allowed to love him then? sasuke tried to kill him too. It's still unhealthy no matter who feels the love.


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## MissingShinobi (May 25, 2011)

Omnipotent Pirate said:


> Why does nobody give naruto shit for still loving sasuke. Sakura didn't faint when she decided sasuke needed to die.




He catches hell on this forum for it too. Especially after the chapters that he does something absurd over it.


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## Omnipotent Pirate (May 25, 2011)

MissingShinobi said:


> He catches hell on this forum for it too. Especially after the chapters that he does something absurd over it.



Still, sakura does get more flak for it. I can see why though. there's a lot there to hate her for and people can make "excuses" for naruto Some of the reasons people dislike sakura, are the same reasons i like her.


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## AceBizzle (May 25, 2011)

Over 300 posts...I'm impressed!


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## ShiggyDiggyDoo (May 25, 2011)

I just don't get it.

This is just too unrealistic for me. Just how? How does she fall in love with a guy who she barely even knew or talked to? The most they talked to each other was before the timeskip. They didn't date. They didn't fuck. They didn't even do *shit*. What does she love about him? He seemed more like a crush to her than anything and I personally think that he still is and that Sakura seems to be confused between the words, "love" and "crush". 

But at least with Naruto, he's actually trying to somewhat help him. Sakura just intended on killing him instead. Some lover she is.


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## Fleet Admiral Akainu (May 25, 2011)

Posting in Sakura bash thread


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## Arles Celes (May 25, 2011)

Fourangers said:


> Uh huh. Forgetting that few panels ago, Sasuke was reassuring Naruto that he didn't want to kill Naruto at that time because he didn't want to obey Itachi's path. And then he said that he threw his bonds with Naruto away that's why he could kill Naruto in cold blood; "on a whim", as he said. He was trying to validate a point and guess what, didn't work and it doesn't work till now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I meant that Sakura understood that his avenger path would probably make him leave her and the village and she feared that. And by her knowing what happened to his family(Naruto did not show that he knew Sasuke's past back then) and analizing like Kakashi did, that a path of revenge would only bring him more pain.

Regarding her understanding his pain(saying that she was feeling said pain as he was leaving her) it was subjective for her, as it is hard to measure that. I still think that Sasuke's pain over the loss of his family was probably greater.

And yeah...she didn't know anything about him besides the knowledge about his family murder and his desperate desire to gain more power at all cost.

Regarding the bit I wrote regarding Naruto not understanding Sasuke I meant their relationship back at part 1 and not now. In part 2 Naruto was indeed quite a martyr for Sasuke.

Still, Naruto mentions even at one point in part 2 that he doesn't understand him anymore.

sensing Sakura.


Sasuke certainly is in unbearable pain though he is shielding from said pain withn his hatred.

How will Sasuke be able to go on with his life when/if his hatred is gone? IMO by taking his hatred away from him Naruto will basically kill Sasuke and take away his reason to live. What a drama...


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## Bellville (May 25, 2011)

Ch1p said:


> This is where our opinions diverge. I don't believe that people are better or worse for what they have. It's what they do with it that it counts. In this case, I don't care if Sakura loves Sasuke or not. It's how she deals with it that is important to me.


Which was what I was pointing out there. Sakura can do one of two things: choose to pursue him and view him as a romantic prospect or try to put that behind her and do herself some good. Fat chance she'll start using her feelings as a source of strength now when before this it was something that made her weak and falter.


> How is this her fault? You choose who fall in love with? As a teenager no less?


Wikipedia: "a character flaw is a limitation, imperfection, problem, phobia, or deficiency present in a character who may be otherwise very functional. The flaw can be a problem that directly affects the character's actions and abilities, such as a violent temper. Alternatively, it can be a simple foible or personality defect, which affects the character's motives and social interactions, but little else."

He didn't say anything about fault, but it's a flaw either way.



> The flaw is not her love for Sasuke but her emotions (she admitted it so in Wave arc).


Emotions... like... LOVE?



> How's it different? I don't recall one moment where Jirayia and Orochimaru had one single positive interaction to warrant his guilt and sadness for not helping his friend and to feel personally touched when Naruto refused to take his advice in forgetting about Sasuke.


uh, we didn't really get any flashbacks on those two, period. 





> Sakura and Sasuke have had plenty of positive interaction when they were teammates. Sasuke was prepared to give his life for Sakura, who he considered an important person to him. Orochimaru was never shown to have that kind of feeling towards Jiraiya. And yet, Jiraiya believes their bond was strong. Sakura gets shit yet again.


They were stated to be best friends IIRC, whether we were shown flashbacks or not. 


> To _you_. To her and her character development, yes they were. Fangirls don't take their idols out of their pedestal. Sakura didn't see Sasuke as perfect, or at least, learnt he wasn't.


I'm still wondering where this idea comes from. The situation became dire as time went on, but I don't know where people get this "she saw the true, flawed" Sasuke argument. 



> Her surpassing her crush is nor here nor there in her character development. Would you be okay if she forgot about Sasuke at this moment and then started fangirling over Shino and behaving in the exact same way she was doing back then, since you believe she hasn't changed and is still a fangirl?


He's saying it would help show her NOT being a fangirl any more if she got over Sasuke. 



> To you, who can't see past her love for Sasuke.


It is the thing that brings her down the most. The darkest cloud hanging over her happiness and development. Forgive people for finding it obnoxiously distracting.


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## AKmyWaffle (May 25, 2011)

Red Queen said:


> I wouldn't get close to a guy who tries to kill me.



Self defense... She was there to kill him and attempted to do so multiple times.


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## ch1p (May 25, 2011)

Bellville said:


> Which was what I was pointing out there. Sakura can do one of two things: choose to pursue him and view him as a romantic prospect or try to put that behind her and do herself some good. Fat chance she'll start using her feelings as a source of strength now when before this it was something that made her weak and falter.



She's not pursuing him, is she?



> Wikipedia: "a character flaw is a limitation, imperfection, problem, phobia, or deficiency present in a character who may be otherwise very functional. The flaw can be a problem that directly affects the character's actions and abilities, such as a violent temper. Alternatively, it can be a simple foible or personality defect, which affects the character's motives and social interactions, but little else."
> 
> 
> He didn't say anything about fault, but it's a flaw either way.



Her problem isn't loving Sasuke, it was her inability to separate emotions from objective thinking. She'd behave as hopelessly if she liked someone else.



> Emotions... like... LOVE?


And separate them from objective thinking. Though I didn't say the whole phrase, I had already repeated it a shit load of times already, so you trying to pin my reasoning in a logic error is kind of stupid, sorry.

I even said it was Zabuza arc. Shinobi rule #25: No matter what the situation, a shinobi must keep their emotions aside and must make their mission their top priority and you must possess a heart that shows no tears. The chapter is even called "their own battles". I don't know how more obvious can it get. This was Sakura's weakness, not her love for a particular someone. Her weakness will not change if she had fangirled over Naruto instead.



> uh, we didn't really get any flashbacks on those two, period.
> 
> They were stated to be best friends IIRC, whether we were shown flashbacks or not.



But you accept Jiraiya's feelings for Orochimaru to be genuine without even one positive moment being shown? At least Sasuke and Sakura had these moments.



> I'm still wondering where this idea comes from. The situation became dire as time went on, but I don't know where people get this "she saw the true, flawed" Sasuke argument.



She thought he was invincible only to see him die at Haku's hands? Again the same and then being beaten up by Lee? Then seeing Sasuke in his curse seal mode in FOD and correctly saying that was not the Sasuke she knew? She might not have caught a complete and full grasp of him, but she certainly saw most of it.



> He's saying it would help show her NOT being a fangirl any more if she got over Sasuke.


But she's not a fangirl.



> It is the thing that brings her down the most. The darkest cloud hanging over her happiness and development. Forgive people for finding it obnoxiously distracting.



It's true that it makes her sad though and that's negative. However, I don't see people throwing a massive shit over other characters doing the exact same.


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## Amae (May 25, 2011)

Omnipotent Pirate said:


> Why does nobody give naruto shit for still loving sasuke. Sakura didn't faint when she decided sasuke needed to die.


He gets a lot of shit for it. Whether Sakura gets more or less shit is irrelevant, so what's your point?


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## Kage (May 25, 2011)

AKmyWaffle said:


> Self defense... She was there to kill him and attempted to do so multiple times.



she looked about ready to cry the first try and actually _did_ cry the 2nd try.

either sakura's a master at the art of deception and intended to try garnering sympathy as a distraction (this would have failed epically anyway lol) or she was just a really pathetic "threat"

which do you think is more likely.


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## Omnipotent Pirate (May 25, 2011)

Amae said:


> He gets a lot of shit for it. Whether Sakura gets more or less shit is irrelevant, so what's your point?



Definitely my bias. and i rarely see any threads complaining about naruto, but i haven't been here long so probably irrelevant. my fault for bringing it up.


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## Cheese King (May 25, 2011)

AceBizzle said:


> Over 300 posts...I'm impressed!



In less than 9 hours. It's nothing to be impressed about.

Actually, it shows that people focus on and put too much effort into something so trivial. This little event with Sakura lasted like what, a few panels? And people have made over 300 posts in this thread and who knows how many in the other one (and any others if they're out there).

*ETA*: Actually, there are more than these two main ones and they seem to be the main focuses of the telegrams. Kinda sad...

It's like my parents focusing on how a newscaster's tie doesn't match their outfit when the news of a person being murdered is being reported.


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## Gunners (May 25, 2011)

Enclave said:
			
		

> If you ask me? He's so bad at it that I think he shouldn't even try to include it in the manga at all. The manga would probably be better if all the relationship crap was cut out of it.


I don't think he is bad at relationships I just don't think he cares about it that much. The relationship with Minato and Kushina was done well enough.  as was the relationship with Zabuza and Haku


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## psycheofthewoods (May 25, 2011)

I love Kishi pek


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## AKmyWaffle (May 25, 2011)

Kage said:


> she looked about ready to cry the first try and actually _did_ cry the 2nd try.
> 
> either sakura's a master at the art of deception and intended to try garnering sympathy as a distraction (this would have failed epically anyway lol) or she was just a really pathetic "threat"
> 
> which do you think is more likely.



Clearly Sakura was trying to force herself to kill Sasuke, which was something she couldn't do. This is understandable, after all Sakura is a human being. If you were asked to kill a person you loved could you do it?

Assuming that you do have somebody you love could you stab them in the back? Could you do it without so much as shedding a tear?

She isn't some sick psychopath like Oro. And even Oro had a soft spot for Jiraiya and Tsunade.


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## Seto Kaiba (May 25, 2011)

Ch1p said:


> She's not pursuing him, is she?



She has romantic expectations, even now. It's pathetic.



> Her problem isn't loving Sasuke



That IS her problem.



> it was her inability to separate emotions from objective thinking. She'd behave as hopelessly if she liked someone else.



If it wasn't a genocial maniac she was pining over, people might be more sympathetic towards her. Like I stated though, many of her flaws stem from her infatuation with Sasuke.



> And separate them from objective thinking. Though I didn't say the whole phrase, I had already repeated it a shit load of times already, so you trying to pin my reasoning in a logic error is kind of stupid, sorry.



It's specifically her feelings for Sasuke that drag her down.



> I even said it was Zabuza arc. Shinobi rule #25: No matter what the situation, a shinobi must keep their emotions aside and must make their mission their top priority and you must possess a heart that shows no tears. The chapter is even called "their own battles". I don't know how more obvious can it get. This was Sakura's weakness, not her love for a particular someone.



Her love for Sasuke also became a weakness, a clear and apparent flaw. Something that has been pretty much stated to be so as well. They are two distinct weaknesses of her character.



> Her weakness will not change if she had fangirled over Naruto instead.



Her being emotional won't, what came with her infatuation with Sasuke might.



> But you accept Jiraiya's feelings for Orochimaru to be genuine without even one positive moment being shown? At least Sasuke and Sakura had these moments.



This is retarded and desperate. Jiraiya didn't wanna get in Orochimaru's pants and however much you may wanna close your eyes and ears on this matter, that fact is ENTIRELY PERTINENT. It's just like I stated with Sasuke and Naruto or Hiruzen and Orochimaru, they had a strong bond before Oro's turn. They were teammates for DECADES. There is a HELL of a lot more justification for Jiraiya's former feelings of comradery for his comrade, which are not motivated or entail any prospects of romance with him.



> She thought he was invincible only to see him die at Haku's hands? Again the same and then being beaten up by Lee? Then seeing Sasuke in his curse seal mode in FOD and correctly saying that was not the Sasuke she knew? She might not have caught a complete and full grasp of him, but she certainly saw most of it.



Especially at this part of the story, she hardly knew Sasuke. Sasuke really didn't share anything or was that open with her. Their bond was the weakest on the team.



> But she's not a fangirl.



It unfortunately still lives on in her somewhere.



> It's true that it makes her sad though and that's negative. However, I don't see people throwing a massive shit over other characters doing the exact same.



That and you know, the threat to her life it poses. Stop trying to drag other relationships in it, that's really getting desperate and most of them really can't be compared to SS.


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## Bakusaiga (May 25, 2011)

Sakura has shown that she's more than ready to have him killed.  She's just emotionally unavailable right now.  It's a big step up from before.


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## AKmyWaffle (May 25, 2011)

Bakusaiga said:


> Sakura has shown that she's more than ready to have him killed.  She's just emotionally unavailable right now.  It's a big step up from before.



Indeed, let's look at the solutions Naruto and Sakura have come up with:

Sakura: Gonna kill him and move on with my life. 
Naruto: Things aren't looking good for us in this life... I'm going to win him over in the afterlife. 

Sakura is quite a bit ahead of Naruto.


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## Rabbit and Rose (May 25, 2011)

I thought her love for Sasuke was her love to beat Ino in winning Sasuke.


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## Saunion (May 25, 2011)

Bakusaiga said:


> Sakura has shown that she's more than ready to have him killed.  She's just emotionally unavailable right now.  It's a big step up from before.



How can she be more than ready to kill him when she can't even hurt him, and would have died herself without outside interference? How is that an attempt at moving on? It was just suicide, and had she been the last one able to stop Sasuke, it basically means that she'd have let him go slaughter everyone in Konoha, including her parents, her master and friends. 

This is supposed to be better than Naruto's solution? Give me a break.


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## Agent of Death/Ergo Proxy (May 25, 2011)

Red Queen said:


> I thought her love for Sasuke was her love to beat Ino in winning Sasuke.



I remember something like this being stated back in part 1, or am I wrong


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## Kage (May 25, 2011)

AKmyWaffle said:


> Clearly Sakura was trying to force herself to kill Sasuke, which was something she couldn't do. This is understandable, after all Sakura is a human being. If you were asked to kill a person you loved could you do it?
> 
> Assuming that you do have somebody you love could you stab them in the back? Could you do it without so much as shedding a tear?
> 
> She isn't some sick psychopath like Oro. And even Oro had a soft spot for Jiraiya and Tsunade.



that wasn't my point. the point is sasuke didn't have a "threat" to eliminate _permanently._ he likely knew that when he called her bluff almost as soon as she made it.

not to mention he was prepared to kill a comrade who posed no kind of threat, even if just intentional, moments before. 

tl;dr i would use the word "self-defense" rather loosely in this case.


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## Omnipotent Pirate (May 25, 2011)

Saunion said:


> How can she be more than ready to kill him when she can't even hurt him, and would have died herself without outside interference? How is that an attempt at moving on? It was just suicide, and had she been the last one able to stop Sasuke, it basically means that she'd have let him go slaughter everyone in Konoha, including her parents, her master and friends.
> 
> This is supposed to be better than Naruto's solution? Give me a break.



Sakura decided he should die. Naruto opted for both of their deaths. so either naruto is planning an epic end or he's planning to kill sasuke, then kill himself. and sakura not being able to follow through is because she still has love for the man, even though she doesn't want it. It's going to be difficult to kill something you care about, even if you don't want to care.


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## Empathy (May 26, 2011)

No woman can go back after they've had a taste of DAT SAUCE.


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## Agent of Death/Ergo Proxy (May 26, 2011)

Wasn't it her _"supposed"_ love for Sasuke that ended her and Ino's friendship for a while.  That's just another problem to add to the list .


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## AKmyWaffle (May 26, 2011)

Red Queen said:


> I thought her love for Sasuke was her love to beat Ino in winning Sasuke.



No, there are more reasons why Sakura was in love with Sasuke, he saved her life on various occasions for starters. Sasuke was somebody who easily risked his own life to protect those around him, the will of fire came easily to him.


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## Saunion (May 26, 2011)

Omnipotent Pirate said:


> Sakura decided he should die. Naruto opted for both of their deaths. so either naruto is planning an epic end or he's planning to kill sasuke, then kill himself. and sakura not being able to follow through is because she still has love for the man, even though she doesn't want it. It's going to be difficult to kill something you care about, even if you don't want to care.



Sakura didn't decide shit. She just went with the flow after bawwwwing her heart out because Sai was telling it like it is. It's pretty damn obvious she never really decided Sasuke should die, it was just her spur of the moment scheme to get rid of some guilt. Which is another reason why people bash her and find her unlikeable. That plain mental weakness.


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## AKmyWaffle (May 26, 2011)

Besides can you really blame Sakura for being pathetic. Look at her master, she gets drunk and cries even though the guy she loved passed away more than a decade ago. 

At the very least Sakura is choosing to confront her problems instead of running away and crawling inside a bottle.


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## Seto Kaiba (May 26, 2011)

AKmyWaffle said:


> Besides can you really blame Sakura for being pathetic. Look at her master, she gets drunk and cries even though the guy she loved passed away more than a decade ago.
> 
> At the very least Sakura is choosing to confront her problems instead of running away and crawling inside a bottle.



Unlike Sakura, Tsunade's hangups are a bit more sympathetic seeing as the guy she loved also loved her back...Also, Tsunade did have to deal with the loss, way back in Part I. That was apart of the whole thing of her becoming hokage...


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## AKmyWaffle (May 26, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Unlike Sakura, Tsunade's hangups are a bit more sympathetic seeing as the guy she loved also loved her back...Also, Tsunade did have to deal with the loss, way back in Part I. That was apart of the whole thing of her becoming hokage...



Not really, if you look at the flashbacks you'd say that Tsunade was in her twenties. She is now in her 50s and still isn't over him, that's rather pathetic. Hell she even contemplated sacrificing Jiraiya so that Oro's arms could be healed and he could finish off Konoha. 

At the very least Sakura is moving forward, previously she also thought of abandoning the village for Sasuke. Now at the very least she has acknowledged that the village is more important to her.


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## Saunion (May 26, 2011)

Agent of Death/Ergo Proxy said:


> Wasn't it her _"supposed"_ love for Sasuke that ended her and Ino's friendship for a while.  That's just another problem to add to the list .



That's what her love for Sasuke made her do:

-break friendship with Ino

-neglect her training during most of part 1 in favor of pining over him and acting as a clingy pseudo nurturing nuisance

-despise Naruto because she thought he wanted to "ruin her love life"

-burden Naruto with the promise in spite of his feelings for her

-lecture Naruto about crying while doing the exact same

-neglect her training in favor of crying over Saucy's picture

-get a massive guilt trip because someone needed to remind her manipulating people in love with you is shitty

-flat out lie to Naruto's face, humiliate him in front of a bunch of people, manipulate him AGAIN, endanger her teammates and herself 

-fail to do any harm to Sasuke after learning of his goal to crush Konoha, meaning she prioritized him over the safety of all her loved ones

-putting the burden of making Team 7 whole again on Naruto

And for what brilliant results? A "thank you", two murder attempts, constant idleness, lack of relevance to Sasuke and wangst. 

I can say as a statement of fact Sakura's love for Sasuke is by far the worst part of a manga that doesn't lack shitty aspects.


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## Omnipotent Pirate (May 26, 2011)

Saunion said:


> Sakura didn't decide shit. She just went with the flow after bawwwwing her heart out because Sai was telling it like it is. It's pretty damn obvious she never really decided Sasuke should die, it was just her spur of the moment scheme to get rid of some guilt. Which is another reason why people bash her and find her unlikeable. That plain mental weakness.



really, go through all that trouble to find sasuke and risk her life, all to rid herself of some guilt. she even got rid of her teammates so she could do it herself. She tried to take responsibility and failed. The only thing she did wrong was let her emotions stop her.  Like naruto's emotions made him hyperventilate and faint.


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## auem (May 26, 2011)

at the end sasuke has solid plot shield...he will turn good...technically he is yet to kill one( a samurai perhaps)...so sakura has every possibility to get her sasuke-kun at the end and
live happily ever after..i don't think kishi will make a twisted end regarding them...


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## Saunion (May 26, 2011)

Omnipotent Pirate said:


> really, go through all that trouble to find sasuke and risk her life, all to rid herself of some guilt. she even got rid of her teammates so she could do it herself. She tried to take responsibility and failed. The only thing she did wrong was let her emotions stop her.  Like naruto's emotions made him hyperventilate and faint.



"The only thing she did wrong"? Really now? That was the only thing? The whole fake confession, trying to further manipulate a guy she supposedly felt guilty about for the very same reason, and just going back to letting him do all the job by himself wasn't wrong?


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## Kage (May 26, 2011)

Saunion said:


> "The only thing she did wrong"? Really now? That was the only thing? The whole fake confession, trying to further manipulate a guy she supposedly felt guilty about for the very same reason, and just going back to letting him do all the job by himself wasn't wrong?



I CALL IT "REALISTIC"


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## Seto Kaiba (May 26, 2011)

Kage said:


> I CALL IT "REALISTIC"



It's what girls do after all.


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## auem (May 26, 2011)

Omnipotent Pirate said:


> really, go through all that trouble to find sasuke and risk her life, all to rid herself of some guilt. she even got rid of her teammates so she could do it herself. She tried to take responsibility and failed. The only thing she did wrong was let her emotions stop her.  Like naruto's emotions made him hyperventilate and faint.



listen...when emotion get ahead of your judgement,which ultimately leads you to a danger and forced your dear ones to risk for you...that is simply a vice...

don't compare naruto's emotion to that of sakura's...naruto has proven that all his judgements based on emotion was right...so he has a chance to save sasuke too(which is very emotional decision indeed)..
but sakura proven none...hence she is a loser(though i know plot shield will make her great at the end)....


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## Omnipotent Pirate (May 26, 2011)

Saunion said:


> "The only thing she did wrong"? Really now? That was the only thing? The whole fake confession, trying to further manipulate a guy she supposedly felt guilty about for the very same reason, and just going back to letting him do all the job by himself wasn't wrong?



I don't see the confession as a bad thing. I'm just seeing that mess as good intentions on her part and her way of getting naruto out of the way and attempting to replace her feelings. I thought her actions through that whole kage summit arc were very realistic. better than naruto's fainting spell and decision that both him and sasuke should die together.


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## Kage (May 26, 2011)

^





> *very realistic.*


HA. called it 


Seto Kaiba said:


> It's what girls do after all.



it's what i would do


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## Seto Kaiba (May 26, 2011)

Kage said:


> it's what i would do



You detestable girl. No go make your father not regret having you and give him some grandchildren!


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## Saunion (May 26, 2011)

Omnipotent Pirate said:


> I don't see the confession as a bad thing. I'm just seeing that mess as good intentions on her part and her way of getting naruto out of the way and attempting to replace her feelings.



It doesn't matter if she had good intentions or not, because at the end of the day she treated him lower than dirt again. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.


> I thought her actions through that whole kage summit arc were very realistic. better than naruto's fainting spell and decision that both him and sasuke should die together.



Yeah. Realistic. Ok.


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## ovanz (May 26, 2011)

She should be asexual.

But this is the best moment for her sadomasochist love, as probably no other girl like sasuke now (ino accepted to kill sasuke with the rest of konoha rookies, and karin after being stabed and see how his chakra changed could also hate him)


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## Mr Horrible (May 26, 2011)

Saunion said:


> It doesn't matter if she had good intentions or not, because at the end of the day she treated him lower than dirt again. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.



Eh, considering the confession was her attempt to keep Naruto safe, I simply can't see where she treats him lower than dirt. Sure, she acted like a manipulative bitch for most of that, but it was a manipulative bitch who cared about her friend .



> Yeah. Realistic. Ok.



If one assumes that she somehow kept an idealized vision of Sasuke, then her actions do make a little sense. 

Although her trying to single handedly take out Sasuke was one of the worst tactical decisions of the manga.


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## Egotism (May 26, 2011)

Hm... Maybe if Sasuke hurt her one more time she will resent men and turn lesbian...


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## Hexa (May 26, 2011)

I don't know.  I don't think it's really any worse than Naruto's bizarre devotion to Sasuke.  But that doesn't exactly mean it's sensible.


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## Bellville (May 26, 2011)

Oh my god. My response died along with that damn 504 error. I'm not retyping that shit.


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## Chaelius (May 26, 2011)

Mr Horrible said:


> If one assumes that she somehow kept an idealized vision of Sasuke, then her actions do make a little sense.



Yeah, no, I'm pretty sure she dropped whatever idealized vision she had of Sasuke a long time ago, the fact that when she thinks of him this chapter he has  his "I'm gonna rape and kill you" look should tell you something, even if she hadn't it still wouldn't make much sense, but it's okay, since she's a realistic girl and they don't make any sense either


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## Tion (May 26, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> You're getting it wrong. It's like the anchor the keeps a ship from sailing so to speak. Her feelings for Sasuke only serve to degrade her character, they're gonna overshadow whatever she does because as soon as Sasuke gets back in the picture, people are gonna see and be reminded of how and why they think she is a pathetic character.





Supa Swag said:


> I'm not only using this chapter I'm using 500+ chapters in which Sakura:
> 
> -states she's tired of being a burden during the Forest of Death only to do nothing except worry about Sasuke afterwards, pick flowers and have a hilarious convo with Ino about why boys try so hard.
> 
> ...






Saunion said:


> That's what her love for Sasuke made her do:
> 
> -break friendship with Ino
> 
> ...



Pretty good summation on why people connote Sakura's 'love' for Sasuke as being ridiculous/stupid/unsympathized/pathetic. Everything Sasuke does to and for Sakura just makes her look more like a pitiful, lecherous wretch. Her love for Sasuke has done nothing but degrade her character, it's patheticness amplified tenfolds with the lack of understandable reasoning. Also Sakura--->Sasuke and Naruto--->Sasuke are nothing a like because:

1. There is a huge difference between Naruto and Sakura, and how they deal with Sasuke.
2. There is a huge difference between how Sasuke views Naruto and Sakura
3. Both above make all the difference, which is why one relies on the other to work.

And this is coming from someone who dislikes both relationships.


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## Mr Horrible (May 26, 2011)

Chaelius said:


> Yeah, no, I'm pretty sure she dropped whatever idealized vision she had of Sasuke a long time ago, the fact that when she thinks of him this chapter he has  his "I'm gonna rape and kill you" look should tell you something, even if she hadn't it still wouldn't make much sense, but it's okay, since she's a realistic girl and they don't make any sense either



I was referring to the start of the Kage Summit arc. How else do you explain her initial shock at how different Sasuke was from who he used to be?

Going from that, it would make sense that she's ashamed/sadden by loving Sasuke, as she now knows a bit more about who he truly is.


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## erivar (May 26, 2011)

Gregory House said:


> Thank You for saying what had to be said. Naruto and Sakura are the only logical pair in this manga. Everyone seems to think that all these events are happening one after another that's not the case. While Naruto was gone for 3 years or so he did come back and has worked with Sakura. He most likely has hung out with her when he did have off days and wasn't training.
> 
> Their relationship is less one sided then the one she has with Sasuke. They actually know each other and care about each other. Naruto for one actually loves her. He puts her feelings before his and is even willing to bring back someone she "loves" just to make her happy.Thats what you do for people you love not try to kill them. Sasuke has no i repeat no inkling that he cares for the girl and would of killed her if it meant that he could of succeed in his mission.



How about she doesn't end up with either? She shouldn't end up with Sasuke because of the obvious reasons(doesn't mean they can't develop a mutual friendship) and she doesn't end up with Naruto because surprise surprise, men and woman can be friends and so far, all we've been shown is that they are great friends to each other. Sakura fake confessed to Naruto and gave him all the logical reasons why she has now defected to loving him and why she no longer has any feelings for Sasuke and yet, her heart was not following through with the logic. So it shows that Sakura understands what a great person and friend Naruto is and how valuable he is and she wanted to protect him. But yet, she still doesn't have that kind of love for him. She loves him as a friend. I see no reasons why she has to fall for him simply because he is so awesome.  She can be a character not attached with any boy.

And i agree with you. Naruto loves Sakura. He loves her unconditionally. Even if he only loves her romantically, he has been willing to let her go all the way back in that hospital and has. He wants her to be happy. He doesn't seem to mind being friends. And as much insight we get into Naruto's head, we actually never see him pinning away for her and thinking about her and how much he wish she felt the same about him. He doesn't resent Sasuke at all for Sakura's feelings for him ever since that scene in the hospital. He never brought up Sakura's feelings for him and begrudged Sasuke for them when he confronted him at the valley of the end.  So i really don't see the big deal in them staying as good and close friends. Most of his hitting on her has been played for laughs. So i don't think Naruto would care all that much if Sakura falls in love with someone else that wasn't him or Sasuke. He would be happy for her. 

Their relationship isn't one-sided but the relationship they have is no different from Sakura's relationship with Ino, Team 10, Naruto with Hinata .e.t.c because it is all friendship. I don't see why Naruto's relationship with Sakura has to be treated with a double standard. Face it, all the pairings romantically are all one-sided still. 

I would actually think it was awesome if the author ended it with no hooking up between any pair in team 7. But honestly speaking, i don't really care for any paring or the non-existent romance in this manga. So even if Sakura hooked up with Sasuke in the end(still think its unlikely to happen) or hooked with Naruto, Kiba, Lee or Ino, it won't take away from my enjoyment of the manga because i don't read it for romantic parings. I only care about two things. Naruto's quest in life and Sasuke's fate. Everything else is irrelevant and rests on the outcome of the destined re-match.


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## Omnipotent Pirate (May 26, 2011)

^this i agree with. if a pairing has to happen though, i'm still hoping for narusaku though. I really do prefer a no-pairing ending. everybody except the hardcore shippers should be happy with that.


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## Tion (May 26, 2011)

NaruSaku would look bad, not as bad as SasuSaku, but  still 'rebound' 'settling for dat guy' bad.


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## Enclave (May 26, 2011)

Tion said:


> NaruSaku would look bad, not as bad as SasuSaku, but  still 'rebound' 'settling for dat guy' bad.



If Kishi does a 15 years later thing where they're married, I'm not so sure that would be viewed as "rebound and settling" as it's certainly plausible that something could further develop between then in that time.  However if they're to get together after this chapter without it being 15 years later?  Well then it's going to take a whole shitload of character development on Sakura and I'm not sure Kishi is up to it.


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## alchemy1234 (May 26, 2011)

Red Queen said:


> I wouldn't get close to a guy who tries to kill me.



no you would. according to some people in this forum love is so irrational that you may fall for someone who tried to kill you, and wants to destroy all the people of the community you live in.


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## ch1p (May 26, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> She has romantic expectations, even now. It's pathetic.



She has _romantic_ expectations? I don't recall one instance where she deals with this possibility  as of late. Pretty sure that trying to kill the shit out of him had no romantic expectations whatsoever.



> That IS her problem.
> 
> Her love for Sasuke also became a weakness, a clear and apparent flaw. Something that has been pretty much stated to be so as well. They are two distinct weaknesses of her character.



I disagree and explained what is her real problem, aknowledged by her and even the author.



> If it wasn't a genocial maniac she was pining over, people might be more sympathetic towards her. Like I stated though, many of her flaws stem from her infatuation with Sasuke.
> 
> It's specifically her feelings for Sasuke that drag her down.


 She would be more sympathetic to the reader sure, but her problems would still be there. They wouldn't magically disappear because she crushed on someone else.



> Her being emotional won't, what came with her infatuation with Sasuke might.



Some other shit would have arose. She was not emotionally mature.



> This is retarded and desperate. Jiraiya didn't wanna get in Orochimaru's pants and however much you may wanna close your eyes and ears on this matter, that fact is ENTIRELY PERTINENT. It's just like I stated with Sasuke and Naruto or Hiruzen and Orochimaru, they had a strong bond before Oro's turn. They were teammates for DECADES. There is a HELL of a lot more justification for Jiraiya's former feelings of comradery for his comrade, which are not motivated or entail any prospects of romance with him.



Their bond was strong, so much Sasuke wanted to defend her with his life. What does it matter if she wanted to jump into his pants or it wasn't something that was there for years? Sakura and Sasuke were comrades as well. Why are you making an exception out of them?

Baiting and bullying won't work with me btw, so calling me desperate or not doesn't make any difference.



> Especially at this part of the story, she hardly knew Sasuke. Sasuke really didn't share anything or was that open with her. Their bond was the weakest on the team.



Because Sasuke _shared things_ with Naruto or Kakashi. 



> It unfortunately still lives on in her somewhere.


You know what's unfortunate? You not managing to pinpoint where.



> That and you know, the threat to her life it poses. Stop trying to drag other relationships in it, that's really getting desperate and most of them really can't be compared to SS.



I'll stop when I want to stop. We both know no one is convincing the other. I don't know why you haven't stopped trying to convince me already, when you can't agree with anything I say. *shrug*



Kage said:


> I CALL IT "REALISTIC"



What's realistic about ninjas with energy monsters inside them?

Not really agreeing or disagreeing, just sayin'. Most of the characters keep bonds for all their lives for no good reason and no one complains but Sakura's feelings for Sasuke. What's so realistic about that?

---

About Sakura ending her friendship with Ino because of Sasuke, that's a lie. Sakura and Ino were friends even after they were both openly crushing for Sasuke. Sakura only gave the ribbon back ("ending the friendship") because she wanted to step out of Ino's shadow. Their rivalry is much bigger than a boy and everyone who thinks otherwise clearly missed the point of those flower analogies that were made at the time.



Bellville said:


> Oh my god. My response died along with that damn 504 error. I'm not retyping that shit.



Thank the internet gods. I'm tired of this bullshit too.


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## Seto Kaiba (May 26, 2011)

Ch1p said:


> She has _romantic_ expectations? I don't recall one instance where she deals with this possibility.



She believes in Naruto who believes he can bring Sasuke back, and she turns down the fodder-nin on the basis that she likes someone else, that person clearly Sasuke. It can be inferred that she still clings to romantic prospects with Sasuke in the future, despite what he's done to others and herself.



> I disagree and explained what is her real problem, aknowledged by her and even the author.



It's one of her flaws, and her infatuation with Sasuke is another.



> She would be more sympathetic to the reader sure, but her problems would still be there. They wouldn't magically disappear because she crushed on someone else.



A lot of her problems came about due to her infatuation with Sasuke, so that's incorrect.



> Some other shit would have arose. She was not emotionally mature.



She won't be perfect, but she'd be better off than she is now.



> Their bond was strong, so much Sasuke wanted to defend her with his life.



He wanted to protect everyone with his life in those days. 



> What does it matter if she wanted to jump into his pants or it wasn't something that was there for years?



Are you seriously asking that question? You just tried to bring up Sarutobi's and Jiraiya's bond with Orochimaru to defend SasuSaku, yet you ignored the nature of, the motives behind, and story behind the bonds completely. It's not that hard to understand, those circumstances make a world of difference. 



> Sakura and Sasuke were comrades as well. Why are you making an exception out of them?



I'm saying they were comrades, but nothing more, and Sasuke had no interest in taking it further than that. It didn't go beyond that.



> Baiting and bullying won't work with me btw, so calling me desperate or not doesn't make any difference.



The argument is desperate, because it completely ignores context.



> Because Sasuke _shared things_ with Naruto or Kakashi.



Actually he did. Some of you guys have to work on your sarcasm.



> You know what's unfortunate? You not managing to pinpoint where.



I did. Repeatedly. It's that little girl still alive somewhere that keeps her infatuated with a killer, and someone that repeatedly tried to take her life no less. It's the little girl that keeps Sakura clinging to romantic expectations with such an individual, and it's the little girl that keeps Sakura from really being respected as a legitimate heroine.



> I'll stop when I want to stop. We both know no one is convincing the other. I don't know why you haven't stopped trying to convince me already, when you can't agree with anything I say. *shrug*



You aren't gonna change your mind I know, but I felt like pointing the flaws in your argument


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## ch1p (May 26, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> She believes in Naruto who believes he can bring Sasuke back, and she turns down the fodder-nin on the basis that she likes someone else, that person clearly Sasuke. It can be inferred that she still clings to romantic prospects with Sasuke in the future, despite what he's done to others and herself.


For someone that rambles about facts and tears up on speculation, this is kind of rich.



> It's one of her flaws, and her infatuation with Sasuke is another.
> 
> A lot of her problems came about due to her infatuation with Sasuke, so that's incorrect.
> 
> She won't be perfect, but she'd be better off than she is now.



We're never going to agree on this. Feel free to ignore the Wave arc.



> He wanted to protect everyone with his life in those days.


Everyone?  His important people you mean. He said that he didn't want to see his _important people_ disappear, not _everyone_. Are you going to ignore it like you're doing it with the wave arc?



> Are you seriously asking that question? You just tried to bring up Sarutobi's and Jiraiya's bond with Orochimaru to defend SasuSaku, yet you ignored the nature of, the motives behind, and story behind the bonds completely. It's not that hard to understand, those circumstances make a world of difference.


No. I'm saying bonds in this manga are strong and keep themselves for a very long time, whether if shit hits the fan, years have passed, or if they're never shown and are just told. It's just the way they are and you're making exceptions for SasuSaku because you loath the pairing, when Sasuke directly said Sakura was one of his important people.



> I'm saying they were comrades, but nothing more, and Sasuke had no interest in taking it further than that. It didn't go beyond that.


So? I don't ever recall saying Sakura was important to him because he loved her.



> The argument is desperate, because it completely ignores context.


 It's desperate because you don't agree with it.




> Actually he did. Some of you guys have to work on your sarcasm.



He barely did. He never seaked these people out and told them about his woes. Everything that came out was by accident or by chance. If that counts, then him spilling to Sakura that he cried when his brother killed his clan or FOD (which Naruto never would have known if it wasn't for Sakura) also counts.

I think the only time he said something was when he confessed Naruto was his closest friend and then he proceeded to Chidori his lung.




> I did. Repeatedly. It's that little girl still alive somewhere that keeps her infatuated with a killer, and someone that repeatedly tried to take her life no less. It's the little girl that keeps Sakura clinging to romantic expectations with such an individual, and it's the little girl that keeps Sakura from really being respected as a legitimate heroine.



You don't believe she had character development since then, so you clearly don't see the character.



> You aren't gonna change your mind I know, but I felt like pointing the flaws in your argument



Your opinion and blatant disregard for the manga are flaws in my argument?


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## Seto Kaiba (May 26, 2011)

Ch1p said:


> For someone that rambles about facts and tears up on speculation, this is kind of rich.



That's a more than valid guess. It's called "putting two and two together".



> We're never going to agree on this. Feel free to ignore the Wave arc.



I said that those two flaws are, or have grown distinct from one another, and you insist on denying the elephant in the room which is her infatuation with Sasuke as being among them. Feel free to ignore everything else. You'd have to in order to defend her relationship with Sasuke.



> Everyone?  His important people you mean. He said that he didn't want to see his _important people_ disappear, not _everyone_. Are you going to ignore it like you're doing it with the wave arc?



The village. He didn't want to see his teammates die, and he wanted to protect Konoha too. I thought this was obvious, but I suppose not...



> No. I'm saying bonds in this manga are strong and keep themselves for a very long time, whether if shit hits the fan, years have passed, or if they're never shown and are just told.



Those bonds are of a very different nature than SS, under very different circumstances, fueled by very different motivations. 



> It's just the way they are and you're making exceptions for SasuSaku because you loath the pairing, when Sasuke directly said Sakura was one of his important people.



You are trying to drag everything else down with SasuSaku, and that is a load of BS to do so. You try to do so by again, ignoring the context and nature of the relationships, and the story and motivating factors behind them. All these characteristics matter a great deal and when taking into consideration each of the relationships you tried to use in defense of SasuSaku, your arguments just don't hold water.



> So? I don't ever recall saying Sakura was important to him because he loved her.



You and other SS fans like to bring up the fact that Sasuke acted as a decent human being towards her as if it was something that was deeper than it actually was.



> It's desperate because you don't agree with it.



It's desperate because you ignore the context, backstory, nature, and motivations behind the bonds.



> He barely did. He never seaked these people out and told them about his woes. Everything that came out was by accident or by chance.



That's more than what can be said with Sakura. They understood him, and he in turn understood them. They had a strong basis for forming a bond, and theirs were the most solid on the original Team 7. Sakura was always the third wheel.



> If that counts, then him spilling to Sakura that he cried when his brother killed his clan or FOD (which Naruto never would have known if it wasn't for Sakura) also counts.



He was talking to himself, and she overheard.



> I think the only time he said something was when he confessed Naruto was his closest friend and then he proceeded to Chidori his lung.



He also shared things with Kakashi too. 



> You don't believe she had character development since then, so you clearly don't see the character.



I'm saying whatever she does will be overshadowed by her infatuation with Sasuke for as long as it persists, because it will always come back to haunt the character.



> Your opinion and blatant disregard for the manga are flaws in my argument?



Blatant disregard for the manga? Whose ignoring the well-established fact that Sakura's infatuation with Sasuke has been and even characters and sources to be detrimental to her character? Whose ignoring the negative aspects her relationship with Sasuke has entailed? Whose ignoring the context and nature of other relationships to make her pairing look less horrid than it actually is? The answer for all is you.


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## Tion (May 26, 2011)

Ch1p said:


> She has romantic expectations? I don't recall one instance where she deals with this possibility as of late. Pretty sure that trying to kill the shit out of him had no romantic expectations whatsoever.


It's not such an inane assumption to draw that holding onto romantic feelings for an individual, especially to a psychopathic shitbag of an individual, would mean such person has romantic expectations. Why else would you hold onto the feelings otherwise? Karin liked Sasuke, but she's cut ties with him. No doubt she still has lingering feelings because she'd also forged a 'bond' with Sasuke, but as she's made a conscious decision to move on, one doesn't expect any sort of romantic expectation. Until we see that conscious decision from Sakura to get over Sasuke, despite still 'loving' him, of course there are romantic expectations.


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