# Yonko vs Admirals



## Gianfi (Aug 31, 2019)

Hope this thread doesn't get out of hand..
Aniway, the 4 Yonkou:
Kaido
Big Mom
Shanks
BlackBeard

decide to team up and conquer the world. The firs of line of defence against them are the Navy Admirals:
Akainu
Aokiji
Kizaru
Fujitora

They fight on neutral setting, starting at 25 meters distance. Obviouslt everyone is at their best, Aokiji got his leg, BM his homies etc

Who wins? And why the Yonko in particular?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 31, 2019)

is this even allowed ?




P.S admirals extreme-diff with teamwork and because the 3 logias dont care about battlefield getting hit with AoE dmg (if it isnt haki-infused), which Fuji can provide in plenty

Reactions: Like 2


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## Gianfi (Aug 31, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> is this even allowed ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yeah i was wondering if it was allowed myself, but I constantly see other controversial topics like Shanks vs Mihawk addressed here so why not. Also Kaido and Big Mom at least have got some feats in the last two so I guess we can discuss a bit about them I guess.


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## Red Admiral (Aug 31, 2019)

Gianfi said:


> Hope this thread doesn't get out of hand..
> Aniway, the 4 Yonkou:
> Kaido
> Big Mom
> ...


where is the poll? ... so I can vote CLEARLY Yonko

but Yonko Vs Admiral is too good to be a thread this days

we should talk more about things that barely matter


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## Lurko (Aug 31, 2019)




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## Edogawa (Aug 31, 2019)

The Yonkos have very limited feats except Big Mom, and you have to rely on scaling and hype titles to provide arguments, like scaling Shanks from Mihawk (who himself is still practically featless) and Zoro and Blackbeard from Whitebeard. But even then, the Admirals are consistently shown to be stronger than the Yonkos.

-Their Devil Fruits are much stronger and their fire-power is immense. It took humans over a century to change the climate by a small percentage, Aokiji and Akainu did in 10 days. And they didn't just change the climate, they devastated an island with icebergs and volcanos. Fujitora was casually lifting a country in the sky and summoning meteors. The Yonkos don't remotely have this level of firepower, except Blackbeard if we scale him to Whitebeard.

-Their physicals stats are better as well. Kaido, the strongest Yonko so far, got knocked out of his Zoan by Luffy; Akainu and Kizaru were casually stopping Whitebeard's earthquakes with 1 foot. Kizaru is the fastest as well. And their stamina is worth 10 days, while Big Mom can last for 48 hours only.

-It's also foreshadowed they will be the final villains as well. Final villains tend to be stronger than mid-story villains. Just look at how the powerscaling changed from pre to post time skips.

Reactions: Like 6


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## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 31, 2019)

Edogawa said:


> The Yonkos have very limited feats except Big Mom, and you have to rely on scaling and hype titles to provide arguments, like scaling Shanks from Mihawk (who himself is still practically featless) and Zoro and Blackbeard from Whitebeard. But even then, the Admirals are consistently shown to be stronger than the Yonkos.
> 
> -Their Devil Fruits are much stronger and their fire-power is immense. It took humans over a century to change the climate by a small percentage, Aokiji and Akainu did in 10 days. And they didn't just change the climate, they devastated an island with icebergs and volcanos. Fujitora was casually lifting a country in the sky and summoning meteors. The Yonkos don't remotely have this level of firepower, except Blackbeard if we scale him to Whitebeard.
> 
> ...


best post

Reactions: Like 2


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## Djomla (Aug 31, 2019)

Admirals. Any of the original trio can defeat any Emperor and vice versa, but as a team they have much better teamwork than bunch of guys who basically hate each other.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Red Admiral (Aug 31, 2019)

please Akainu ... I'm asking you ... just send an admiral to Wano ... 

it's beyond stupid that this is still an argument

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 31, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> send an admiral to Wano ...


*THIS IS A POLITICS, LOGISTICS AND INTEL ISSUE

NOT A POWER LEVELS ISSUE*


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## Red Admiral (Aug 31, 2019)

Djomla said:


> Admirals. Any of the original trio can defeat any Emperor and vice versa, but as a team they have much better teamwork than bunch of guys who basically hate each other.



sure ... 

Akainu and Kuzan try to kill each other over a title 

Big Mom and Kaido create an alliance while they have enough reason to go in a war 


Fujitora and Green Bull basically don't give a darn about Akainu's orders ... sure ... better TEAMWORK ... LOL



Shiba D. Inu said:


> *THIS IS A POLITICS, LOGISTICS AND INTEL ISSUE
> 
> NOT A POWER LEVELS ISSUE*



I don't care ... I want a Yonko Vs Admiral ... before the Yonko sage finish ... unless Admiral base would never shut up


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## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 31, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> I want a Yonko Vs Admiral


you're not getting it because Luffy will beat all of them alone

by the time he fights WG the only yonkou left wil lbe Teach anyway (maybe)


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## Red Admiral (Aug 31, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> you're not getting it because Luffy will beat all of them alone
> 
> by the time he fights WG the only yonkou left wil lbe Teach anyway (maybe)



yes ... 
Yonko base would be sad if a Yonko never fight an admiral
Admiral base would be happy

that tell me all I need ... 


and wen Luffy can overcome Yonko ... he won't even waste his time fighting mere solders of WG ... he would go for Imu and leave admirals to his underlings


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## Gianfi (Aug 31, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> where is the poll? ... so I can vote CLEARLY Yonko
> 
> but Yonko Vs Admiral is too good to be a thread this days
> 
> we should talk more about things that barely matter


I don’t know how to add a poll


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## Law (Aug 31, 2019)

Sanji is probably beating an admiral (I think GB). Tokikake/Gion were candidates for the position. All 3 World Strongest are held by pirates and their closest rivals and almost or equal are/were the Emperors or PK. Beating/killing Shanks is what will hype BB to no end. That's all you need to know to give the W to the pirates, even by the tiniest bit of amount. This is the great age of piracy afterall.


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## Exping (Aug 31, 2019)

shanks ~ Akainu > Blackbeard >Aokiji~Kizaru> Kaido~Big Mom > Fujitora

admiral win by a bit

replace big mom / kaido with Old healthy WB then yonko win because both shanks and old wb can beat akainu


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## Geralt-Singh (Aug 31, 2019)

Kizaru > Kaido & Big Mom is canon 

So Sakazuki / Fujitora / Kuzan should beat Shanks / BB mid high diff

Admirals high diff


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## Law (Aug 31, 2019)

Gianfi said:


> Aokiji got his leg, BM *his* homies etc


First @Sakazuki-Singh and now you!?

BM is female and she's the best girl


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## NooksBrigade (Aug 31, 2019)

Yonko win *Mid-Diff

1) Garp said; Yonko = Navy + Shishibukai
*
How would anyone in the Navy know this? Well, because the Navy and Yonko have clashed before and it was aperent that the Yonko were were stronger. Hence, Kong/Gorosei/IM decided to endorse the Shishibukai.

*2) If the Navy has 4-12 top tiers why have they not systematically beaten the YONKO?
*
The Yonko are individually stronger, and are capable of mid-diffing any Admiral and extreme diffing two Admirals if they play their cards right.

*3) Doflamingo, Marco, Jack, Queen, and Jozu's reaction when facing a Top tier
*
All high-tiers have been shown to have no qualms fighting an Admiral if they need to, but all of them have shown fear and hesitation when facing a Yonko.

*4) Kaido & BM low diffed high-tiers
*
While the Yonko can low diff high tiers; the Admirals were shown to be struggling against them.

*5) Old, Sick WhiteBeard beat Akainu in about 3 hits; without being able to properly use haki and awakening
*
While Akainu was only able to wound White Beard after he got a heart attack/was gravely injured.

*6) Aokiji is working under a Yonko. 
*
BB is strong enough that he is willing to allow a WG spy work under him since he knows he poses no threat to his crew...

*7) BM as a child was ranked to be capable of reaching the Fleet Admiral position.
*
That alone tells us that all Yonko are at least Fleet Admiral level+. As it was Oda himself who wrote that the potential of a Yonko is at least Fleet Admiral...

*8) Both Garp and Sengoku were needed to beat Shiki
*
2 Admiral+ characters were needed to beat a Yonko level character

Reactions: Like 1


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## Seraphoenix (Aug 31, 2019)

Kaido and BM are enough to win. The admirals can't damage them and if they get hit by the club or sword it's a ohko.


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## Lord Melkor (Aug 31, 2019)

Strange that so many people think on average Admiral is stronger than Yonkou, I can see that argument could be made for Akainu but Kizaru and Fujitora over Kaidou or Shanks?


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## Dellinger (Aug 31, 2019)

Lord Melkor said:


> Strange that so many people think on average Admiral is stronger than Yonkou, I can see that argument could be made for Akainu but Kizaru and Fujitora over Kaidou or Shanks?


It's not strange. This place is still plagued by idiots that have zero reading comprehension

Reactions: Like 3 | Winner 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 31, 2019)

Aokiji and KIzaru are 98-99 to Akainus 100

hence 10 days extreme diff duel

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Aug 31, 2019)

Law said:


> First @Sakazuki-Singh and now you!?
> 
> BM is female and she's the best girl



this is come form the sexism of language
&
the fact in many country people use same word for both gender and are gender neutral


I know you meant it as a joke and most likely knew this ... but worth it to say



Shiba D. Inu said:


> Aokiji and KIzaru are 98-99 to Akainus 100
> 
> hence 10 days extreme diff duel


lol

Kaido and Big Mom just had 3 days long fight and they are CLEAN AS HEAVEN

while in 10 days fight ... admirals were close to death as Jenbi said and were scared for life


Shanks ~ Kaido ~ Big Mom ~ Teach > Akainu ~ Kizaru > ~ Fujitora ~ Green Bull


there is no land on world that can handle this fight ... but if there be such thing

Yonko win high diff



Gianfi said:


> I don’t know how to add a poll


 try to edit the post and find it out ... it's not that hard


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## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 31, 2019)

yeah so their offence is shite (even *Jinbei *tanked BM LOL)

meanwhile Akainu has the highest AP and Aokiji has internal freezing GG


anyway you missed the point that Aokiji and Kizaru are very close to Akainus lvl

Fuji should be too

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Aug 31, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> yeah so their offence is shite (even *Jinbei *tanked BM LOL)
> 
> meanwhile Akainu has the highest AP and Aokiji has internal freezing GG
> 
> ...



the Jenbi who stop Akainu while Akainu is in rage ? that Jenbi? or some other dude?

Akainu having Highest AP is a fan fiction ... which make things sad ... cause he have good feats ... no need for lies


you want to know what is truly sad? no gear Luffy tank a named attack from Fujitora


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## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 31, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Akainu having Highest AP is a fan fiction


read some databooks


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## Red Admiral (Aug 31, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> read some databooks



let's read together




all data book is telling us is that Akainu's DF have Highest level of offense among DF users

which is not at all means having the highest offensive power


CoA
physical strength 
CoC (most likely)
weapon

are also major factors in offensive power


Akainu have top level offensive power in terms of DF
what about his Haki?
what about his physical strength ?
what about his weapon? 


the fact you only care and see ONE TERM and nothing more is not fair and logical

you can do better than this ...


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## Sabco (Aug 31, 2019)

Issho is overrated, he gets trashed by Sakazuki and the emperors

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dellinger (Aug 31, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> yeah so their offence is shite (even *Jinbei *tanked BM LOL)
> 
> meanwhile Akainu has the highest AP and Aokiji has internal freezing GG
> 
> ...



Jinbe tanked an attack from Akainu too. You forget that though.

Did any Admiral one shot an opponent on Luffy's level like Kaido did ?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dellinger (Aug 31, 2019)

Can you imagine Jack surviving against 2 Yonko ? 

Can you imagine Kaido, Mom, Shanks and Teach not absolutely wrecking Yonko commanders ?

What about 2 of them being nearly impervious to damage ? What about Teach being the only guy in history with 2 devil fruits ? Shanks basically making everyone stop and no one challenging him. Look at how Doflamingo pisses himself at the mere thought of Kaido yet he nonchalantly attacks Smoker in front of Aokiji and even attacks Fujitora. 

But somehow Admirals are on their level and even stronger

LOL

Reactions: Like 4


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## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 31, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Akainu's DF have Highest level of offense among DF users


yup

glad you see it

so them yonkous better not get hit with any meigous .. they may not have WBs endurance and damage soak to go on


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## Dellinger (Aug 31, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> yup
> 
> glad you see it
> 
> so them yonkous better not get hit with any meigous .. they may not have WBs endurance and damage soak to go on


Yeah they are actually tougher

Reactions: Like 2


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## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 31, 2019)

in durability

we will see how long they can go on while bleeding like a pig


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## Red Admiral (Aug 31, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> yup
> 
> glad you see it
> 
> so them yonkous better not get hit with any meigous .. they may not have WBs endurance and damage soak to go on



man this is just not a very plot and good way to do an argument

to ignore some thing cause it just don't help your case is a proof for the fact you can't defend your case but you don't want to admit it

well ... as long as we are clear about it


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## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 31, 2019)

you should be thankful i am willing to entertain your delusions at all


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## Dellinger (Aug 31, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> in durability
> 
> we will see how long they can go on while bleeding like a pig



If Doflamingo can go that long with his organs destroyed and Luffy with his belly utterly decimated by Katakuri, what do you expect Kaido and Big Mom to do ? Fall down because of bleeding ? 

Are you stupid ?

Reactions: Like 2


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## Corax (Aug 31, 2019)

Too early for this thread. Shanks is featless, yonko BB is almost featless. So I will give it to admirals before Shanks and BB show us their post TS feats,


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## CaptainCommander (Aug 31, 2019)

Replace the admiral flunkies with Fleet Admirals or replace the Yonko with their strongest commanders. Then this might be fair.


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## Dellinger (Aug 31, 2019)

Imagine Kaido and Mom having problems with Sabo and his commanders

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 31, 2019)

Mum wouldnt even be able to land a hit on Sabo 


> blitzed by Brook

Reactions: Like 1


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## Corax (Aug 31, 2019)

By feats BM won't hit Sabo.Brooke blitzed her. Base Luffy dodged all her attacks and was able to run around Udon prison at least 1 full lap while dodging. Feats are harsh.


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## Dellinger (Aug 31, 2019)

Nice how you forget that she was keeping up with Kaido who blitzed Luffy

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 31, 2019)

> powerscaling off of powerscaling 


in their fight Kaido was a big stationary target


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## Dellinger (Aug 31, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> > powerscaling off powerscaling
> 
> 
> Kaido is a big man with a big club


Did Kaido blitz Luffy ? Was Mom keeping up with him for days ?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Corax (Aug 31, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> Nice how you forget that she was keeping up with Kaido who blitzed Luffy


It is an outlier. She was blitzed by weaker characters (like Brooke), Jinbei dodged all of her attacks,base Luffy dodged all of her attacks, Sanji and G3 Luffy intercepted her attacks . Ratio is like 20 bad feats vs 1 outlier.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 31, 2019)

_off-panel_ vs a Kaido who doesnt even dodge anything*


*on panel *she cant touch Brook or base Luffy

Kizaru or even Aokiji would run laps before she makes 1 Napoleon swing

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gianfi (Aug 31, 2019)

Added a poll, if you wish you can vote there too


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## Gianfi (Aug 31, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> this is come form the sexism of language
> &
> the fact in many country people use same word for both gender and are gender neutral
> 
> ...


In Italian the possessive has the same gender of the thing that is possessed, in this case “homies”. Sorry for the little off-topics



Shiba D. Inu said:


> _off-panel_ vs a Kaido who doesnt even dodge anything*
> 
> 
> *on panel *she cant touch Brook or base Luffy


To be fair the SHs are walking plot shields. For instance during Marineford Luffy dodged an attack from Mihawk (???), survives hits by vice-admirals, tanked Sengoku etc they are kinda inconsistent

Reactions: Like 1


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## Luke (Aug 31, 2019)

I would guess it currently goes:

(gaps are very small)

Kaidou > Shanks > Akainu > Big Mom > Aokiji/Kizaru/Blackbeard > Fujitora

So I would favor the Yonko. Admirals are much better characters, but they're not stronger on the whole.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Old Man Van (Aug 31, 2019)

Every way extreme diff. Manga has repeatedly showed that yonko and admirals are on same level.


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## Edogawa (Aug 31, 2019)

Gianfi said:


> Added a poll, if you wish you can vote there too



Polls are literally pointless. They're just popular voting, nothing else.


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## Old Man Van (Aug 31, 2019)

NooksBrigade said:


> Yonko win *Mid-Diff
> 
> 1) Garp said; Yonko = Navy + Shishibukai
> *
> How would anyone in the Navy know this? Well, because the Navy and Yonko have clashed before and it was aperent that the Yonko were were stronger. Hence, Kong/Gorosei/IM decided to endorse the Shishibukai.



Garp said 4 Emperors=Marines+Shichibukai. Its world building and lore told to is by Oda.



> *2) If the Navy has 4-12 top tiers why have they not systematically beaten the YONKO?*



Who said the marines have that many top tiers? If an emperor is stronger, why havent any of them wiped out the marines? It's about loss of resources....not individual power levels....



> The Yonko are individually stronger, and are capable of mid-diffing any Admiral and extreme diffing two Admirals if they play their cards right.



Completely fale. Any yonko would have exteme diff at least. 

"You think you can overcome the emperors or the admirals!? Dont make me laugh!!" - Don Chinjao

"If I cant take down the emperors or the admirals, I'll never be Pirate King!"- The main character

If Yonko are so vastly superior as to claim, there is no reason to mention the admirals.



> *3) Doflamingo, Marco, Jack, Queen, and Jozu's reaction when facing a Top tier
> *
> All high-tiers have been shown to have no qualms fighting an Admiral if they need to, but all of them have shown fear and hesitation when facing a Yonko.



Capone and Kidd have the balls to attack emperors in their own territory but booked it when they heard a single admiral was showing up....

Mingo also threw a fit after seeing a glimpse of Fujitora's strength...



> *4) Kaido & BM low diffed high-tiers
> *
> While the Yonko can low diff high tiers; the Admirals were shown to be struggling against them.



Admirals could one shot commanders when nameless moves while holding back...



> *5) Old, Sick WhiteBeard beat Akainu in about 3 hits; without being able to properly use haki and awakening
> *
> While Akainu was only able to wound White Beard after he got a heart attack/was gravely injured.



Classic. WB sneaked Akainu and still lost half his face....and he never beat Akainu. Dont see how not drowning and immediately taking action isn't being beaten....



> *6) Aokiji is working under a Yonko.
> *
> BB is strong enough that he is willing to allow a WG spy work under him since he knows he poses no threat to his crew...



Aokiji is working undercover.....BB is allowing it cause he's careless by nature and thinks Kuzan is like Shiryu...he said it himself...there was no reason for you to even use this as an argument
.... 



> *7) BM as a child was ranked to be capable of reaching the Fleet Admiral position.
> *
> That alone tells us that all Yonko are at least Fleet Admiral level+. As it was Oda himself who wrote that the potential of a Yonko is at least Fleet Admiral...



This has always been a stupid argument....you can easily reverse this....



> *8) Both Garp and Sengoku were needed to beat Shiki
> *
> 2 Admiral+ characters were needed to beat a Yonko level character


Again, blatantly false...Sengoku stepped in to reduce damage to MF as he directly stated...

Garp could almost kill Roger but he needs help to beat Shiki? Shiki OP....


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## Red Admiral (Aug 31, 2019)

RHP + Mihawk Vs Kaido and Big Mom alliance 

a crew war not just top tiers 

would be more interesting thread than this ... the answer of this thread is clear .... but the wall of deny and troll is too large


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## Steven (Aug 31, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> RHP + Mihawk Vs Kaido and Big Mom alliance
> 
> a crew war not just top tiers
> 
> would be more interesting thread than this ... the answer of this thread is clear .... but the wall of deny and troll is too large


Team one would win with upper high-diff,if the fight on the land

If they fight on the sea,mihawk cuts up the ships.Ergo,the alliance falls in the water=GG because almost all of them are DF user


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## RossellaFiamingo (Aug 31, 2019)

Yonko mid diff

Reactions: Agree 1


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## GreenBull956 (Aug 31, 2019)

Depends , has Teach Awakened either of his DF or not . If yes , then Admirals < Yonko

If not , then Admirals > Yonko , due to him being weakest link

Don't see Kaido on his own level , if Oden ( someone who Zoro will probably surpass this arc ) could give him deep & big cut like that i could see Admirals doing more

Honestly Oden could've at least cut half Kaido's upper neck if he was directing his Enma attack to it

Enma attack must be hell
________________________________________

Legit don't give a darn about "this Admiral stalled by this Commander" , "this Admiral was stalled by this Commander"

Bla blah blah 

The most important thing here is that the Admirals at their strongest , and they are definitely capable of 1 shotting any Commander worse than Kaido / Big Mom did


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## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 31, 2019)

stalled by commander > stalled by chopper and blitzed by brook, and unable to land a blow on base Luffy


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## xmysticgohanx (Aug 31, 2019)

Kaido
Big Mom
Shanks
Blackbeard
Akainu
Aokiji

Are extreme diff fights. They all high diff

Kizaru
Fujitora

Reactions: Like 2


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## Sherlōck (Sep 1, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Yonko base would be sad if a Yonko never fight an admiral
> 
> Admiral base would be happy



Wrong conclusion. We just don't care.

Cause by the time Luffy & Zoro will fight Admirals they will have beaten a Yonko & Mihawk anyway.

Reactions: Like 1


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## GreenBull956 (Sep 1, 2019)

Kizaru & Fujitora probably will encounter Kaido & Big Mom later in Wano , and i'm not scared of that

Soon there'll be news from Reverie where Dragon , Fujitora , Ryokugyu were there and i'm not scared of that


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## Dellinger (Sep 1, 2019)

I like how people use Brook blitzing Mom as an argument when clearly ignoring how it happened. Brook didn't blitz Mom when she played with him in the castle and she easily reacted to G4 and kept up with Kaido for days.

But nah "hurr durr BROOK BLITZED HER, ADMIRALS WIN LOL"

You guys are beyond stupid.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Corax (Sep 1, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> I like how people use Brook blitzing Mom as an argument when clearly ignoring how it happened. Brook didn't blitz Mom when she played with him in the castle and she easily reacted to G4 and kept up with Kaido for days.
> 
> But nah "hurr durr BROOK BLITZED HER, ADMIRALS WIN LOL"
> 
> You guys are beyond stupid.


He blitzed her homie and cut it's cheek while she was in rage,on guard at full health and in sane state of mind.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 1, 2019)

she "reacted" to a hugely telegraphed G4 attack where IIRC Luffy was *shouting* that he was gonna punch her fat face




then in Udon couldnt tag base Luffy

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dellinger (Sep 1, 2019)

Corax said:


> He blitzed her homie and cut it's cheek while she was in rage,on guard at full health and in sane state of mind.



Ehh ? How do you know he blitzed Prom ? Did you see it ?



Shiba D. Inu said:


> she "reacted" to a hugely telegraphed G4 attack where IIRC Luffy was *shouting* that he was gonna punch her fat face
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Mihawk couldn't tag pre skip Luffy but you never mention that

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Corax (Sep 1, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> Ehh ? How do you know he blitzed Prom ? Did you see it ?


If not it is even worse for BM. This means that he stood for a long time vs full BM and in the end of long battle sliced him like Oden did with Kaido for example. This is her lowest and absolute negative feat in entire manga.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 1, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> Mihawk couldn't tag pre skip Luffy but you never mention that


yeah that was some bad plot armor bs 


but Momma has way too many on-panel instances of poor speed and pretty much not a single good solid one


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## Dellinger (Sep 1, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> yeah that was some bad plot armor bs
> 
> 
> but Momma has way too many on-panel instances of poor speed and pretty much not a single good solid one



Mihawk getting avoided by Luffy, getting tagged by Vista and Daz is plot bs but the Brook stuff isn't ?

I knew you were an idiot but you surprise me each time 



Corax said:


> If not it is even worse for BM. This means that he stood for a long time vs full BM and in the end of long battle sliced him like Oden did with Kaido for example. This is her lowest and absolute negative feat in entire manga.



Context of a fight, do understand that ? Big Mom didn't want to hurt Brook, she was playing with him.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 1, 2019)

Luffy is a plot armor bitch

VIsta and Daz literally just got in his way, in front of him, whats the problem
he then instantly destroyed Daz and half-assedly sparred with Vista, while thinking about Luffy



but keep going, show us that speedy Big Mom (b-but she kept up with Kaidoh )

Reactions: Like 1


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## GreenBull956 (Sep 1, 2019)

Luke said:


> So I would favor the Yonko. Admirals are much better characters,


Admirals No Diff as characters


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## Corax (Sep 1, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> Context of a fight, do understand that ? Big Mom didn't want to hurt Brook, she was playing with him.


And so?She could have grabbed him instantly,but she is so slow that allowed him to damage her homie and hold for some time.I won't be surprised if she even couldn't catch him at all and had to wait before his stamina dropped.


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## charles101 (Sep 1, 2019)

Individually I'd give it to Yonkou against Admiral extreme-diff, but it's not like Admiral can't win in certain conditions.

In team, it's rather always Yonkou extreme diff. 

I can see your "Admirals have better teamwork" argument, but do they really? We could see them using Haki to stop WB's attack, but usually, just as Yonkou, they're fighting solo when FA sends them somewhere. MF could be first HUGE event where these characters fought alongside with each other. On the other hand, Big Mom and Kaido used to be crewmembers. I'm not implying that Yonkou's team would have better teamwork. All I try to say is that I don't think this factor would be crucial to outcome.


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## Steven (Sep 1, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> Mihawk couldn't tag pre skip Luffy but you never mention that


Mihawk blitzed Zorro,who was able to keep up with Kuma

Ruffy is a walking plotarmor.Thats why he is still not dead


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## Dellinger (Sep 1, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> Mihawk blitzed Zorro,who was able to keep up with Kuma
> 
> Ruffy is a walking plotarmor.Thats why he is still not dead



Did you just bring up east blue Zoro ? 

Why the fuck are you still posting here ? Get out of this section

Reactions: Like 2


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## Lord Melkor (Sep 1, 2019)

I would say team Yonkou high difficulty. I see MF WB (who was suffering from sickness) and other Yonkou to be pretty much at same level (if MF WB wins it iwould be extreme difficulty) , and MF WB was still a step above pre-timeskip Admirals IMO. Also Admirals have worse feats than Yonkou against Yonkou commander level characters.

By the way, there is nothing saying that Admirals did not become slightly stronger after timeskip, in particular Akainu who had epic 10 days battle against Aokiji. Current Akainu perhaps may give extreme difficulty to Kaidou, Big Mom or Shanks, who should be very close to each other (we know for fact Big Mom and Kaidou are and I would not place Shanks above Kaidou).


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## Steven (Sep 1, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> Did you just bring up east blue Zoro ?
> 
> Why the fuck are you still posting here ? Get out of this section


Still a better speedfeat than BM

Also Mihawk is faster than Shanks.Thats enough proof

Reactions: Like 2


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## Sherlōck (Sep 1, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> Mihawk is faster than Shanks.



But can Mihawk teleport like Shanks though?


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## Red Admiral (Sep 1, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> Still a better speedfeat than BM
> 
> Also Mihawk is faster than Shanks.Thats enough proof



how Mihawk found his way to this thread is just .... ya ... easy to believe ... sorry ... go ahead



Ryokugyu950 said:


> Kizaru & Fujitora probably will encounter Kaido & Big Mom later in Wano , and i'm not scared of that
> 
> Soon there'll be news from Reverie where Dragon , Fujitora , Ryokugyu were there and i'm not scared of that



if you fear than Dragon with 4 high tiers might beat Fujitora , Ryokugyu while the entire WG force is not far from them to act fast ...

then you have less than zero respect for Marine

the best RA can do it run ... any one in fandom should agree on this point



but if alliance go strong ... ya ... I would fear from what may happen to admirals in Wano ... that's just logic


*Marine gathered all 3 admirals , legends and Warlords to face a single Yonko in their own base 

Akainu must be really stupid to send just a part of his power to Wano to face 2 Yonko *


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## Sabco (Sep 1, 2019)

Sakazuki and other Admirals aren't equals. the Punk Hazard fight was prolonged because of the nature of the Logia DFs, Kuzan lost a limb and his life was spared by Sakazuki who was shown to be in a good shape.

Sakazuki should get a small power boost as well. if Brook ( 90 years old ) and Urouge ( 47 years old ) can still get much stronger over the time, I don't see why Sakazuki can't, Rayleigh specifically said that Haki blooms during _*extreme *_battles. and Sakazuki vs Kuzan was probably the strongest fight we ever had since MF. so Sakazuki should be well above Issho and Greenbull. it was never stated that the new admiral trio is as strong or even close to Sakazuki's power. Borsalino would provide more challenge but that's only because he was part of the C3, he is still well below Sakazuki.

Portrayal wise, Sakazuki spent more than three decades in the Marine, reached the highest rank, the only Admiral hyped in vivre cards, has the mightiest DF among Admirals, and is the most important to the plot. he is the only Marine along with Garp that could be compared to an emperor, and that honestly make much more sense when you see how Issho performed against G3 and how Sakazuki feats laugh at it.


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## Dellinger (Sep 1, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> Still a better speedfeat than BM
> 
> Also Mihawk is faster than Shanks.Thats enough proof



Yeah sure.


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## GreenBull956 (Sep 1, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> *Marine gathered all 3 admirals , legends and Warlords to face a single Yonko in their own base
> *


Marines likely won't send this much to Wano , anyway they had to restrain themselves from damaging Marineford , if the place was not a Marine base like that Marines-Shichibukai would have defeated them even worse than it was in MF

Maybe like in .... Red Line where they will have a lot of space .... Akainu can hold off Whitebeard while Awakened Aokiji , Awakened Kizaru , Mihawk , Garp , Sengoku destroy Marco Jozu Vista Namur Atmos and other Commanders


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## Red Admiral (Sep 1, 2019)

at this point all I care is the poll

not cause I need to see people are logical and fair and capable of reading the manga

just to find out just how many people make themselves blind to assume Admirals really WIN!



Ryokugyu950 said:


> Marines likely won't send this much to Wano , anyway they had to restrain themselves from damaging Marineford , if the place was not a Marine base like that Marines-Shichibukai would have defeated them even worse than it was in MF
> 
> Maybe like in .... Red Line where they will have a lot of space .... Akainu can hold off Whitebeard while Awakened Aokiji , Awakened Kizaru , Mihawk , Garp , Sengoku destroy Marco Jozu Vista Namur Atmos and other Commanders



I never find the idea of admirals were holding back THAT MUCH logical

if you damange the area better it don't mean you can win faster ...

in one Vs one ... DC don't matter much ... Fujitora can eat island ... but even high tiers can tank his metro

DC is not over all power


*but yes ... 1 old sick top tier and only 3 good fighters don't have a big chance of wining Vs 6 top tiers if that is what you trying to say

but Marine can't be careless any way ...

sending force to Wano is just beyond stupid unless they go all out 

win is not every thing ... win with the right cost matter the most*


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 1, 2019)

Sith Lord Shanks


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## Gledania (Sep 1, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Mum wouldnt even be able to land a hit on Sabo
> 
> 
> > blitzed by Brook




She was nerefed.

And her goal was not to kill the SH but to find the cake.


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## Steven (Sep 1, 2019)

Gledania said:


> *And her goal was not to kill the SH* but to find the cake.


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## Old Man Van (Sep 1, 2019)

I swear the selective bias for the yonko side is always so strong.....

1. Chinjao said that the though of beating an admiral or a yonko is foolish.....Luffy said he cant be PK without beating the yonko and admirals....so far, out of all the forums I've been on, no one has ever countered this(because you cant).

2. People always bring up WB sneaking Akainu(and failing to beat him) but conveniently ignore the admirals easily dealing with WB with their hands in their pockets(nameless moves as well). 

3. You can use WB to elevate the yonko but not Garp for the admirals for some reason....

4. The Marines didnt have all of their forces, 3 warlords attacked them, admirals couldnt go all out cause of MF, Garp n' Sengoku barely did anything while WB pirates got extra back up, yet it was still a one sided victory for the marines with no key fighter being seriously hurt let alone beaten. 

5. It directly said to us that 4 Emperors=Marines+Shichibukai but people still make up their own narratives.

6. Admiral gets stalled by a commander? So weak! BM gets her skull cracked by one? Never happened! Etc, etc....


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## Shiroryu (Sep 1, 2019)

Old Man Van said:


> I swear the selective bias for the yonko side is always so strong.....
> 
> 1. Chinjao said that the though of beating an admiral or a yonko is foolish.....Luffy said he cant be PK without beating the yonko and admirals....so far, out of all the forums I've been on, no one has ever countered this(because you cant).
> 
> ...


1. Luffy also needs to surpass Beckman and Kaido to become PK, but that doesn’t mean that Beckman is Kaido level. Luffy needs to surpass all Marines and Pirates to become PK, but that doesn’t mean that the strongest Marines equal the strongest Pirates.

2. Akainu on “won” the first round against WB because the dude got a heart attack (after he had been impaled by a large sword). Round 2 was a more fair fight.

3. Garp isn’t an Admiral... Also, WB wasn’t even the strongest Yonko during MF, so most people don’t even use him to elevate the Yonko. Kaido, BM, and Shanks have enough portrayal on their own to beat any Admiral.

4. They had like 95% of their forces dude... Saying that they were weakened because the Admirals couldn’t go all out doesn’t make much sense because obviously the Admirals would go all out if they started losing the war

5. It was also said that the Yonko are all at each other’s throats, but Admiral fanboys choose to ignore this when considering the balance of world powers.

6. Any non-biased reader can see that Queen’s attack didn’t do shit to BM. She was acting like nothing happened afterwards and Oda made it clear that she fell asleep for different reasons.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Old Man Van (Sep 1, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> 1. Luffy also needs to surpass Beckman and Kaido to become PK, but that doesn’t mean that Beckman is Kaido level. Luffy needs to surpass all Marines and Pirates to become PK, but that doesn’t mean that the strongest Marines equal the strongest Pirates.



Wrong. If Luffy can beat Kaido, that means he can stop Beckman but there is no reason to mention them both in the same sentence. 

Luffy said he has to stop BOTH the admirals and yonko aka if Luffy beats Kaido, an admiral can still stop Luffy and vice versa. If the strength difference between yonko and admirals is so vast, admirals wouldnt be a threat.



> 2. Akainu on “won” the first round against WB because the dude got a heart attack (after he had been impaled by a large sword). Round 2 was a more fair fight.



Akainu was fighting WB with his hands in his pockets....then WB got a heart attack....

The 2nd round started off with WB sneaking Akainu and somehow that's more fair? How about Akainu stepping away to allow fodder land clean hits on WB? Akainu couldve killed WB right there. 

WB was sick...Akainu was holding back....yet Akainu had the better performance...



> 3. Garp isn’t an Admiral... Also, WB wasn’t even the strongest Yonko during MF, so most people don’t even use him to elevate the Yonko. Kaido, BM, and Shanks have enough portrayal on their own to beat any Admiral.



As said, Garp doesnt count for some reason. Garp turned down the admiral position.

EVERYONE uses WB to elevate the yonko. That's a blatant lie. WB stood above them....people assume sick WB was weaker than them for the sake of their argument.  "Sickbeard almost killed Akainu. Imagine what a fresh yonko would do!"

Just people applying made up strength levels to make a point.  



> 4. They had like 95% of their forces dude... Saying that they were weakened because the Admirals couldn’t go all out doesn’t make much sense because obviously the Admirals would go all out if they started losing the war



A made up number. Not all marines were called and 3 of the warlords fought against them, helping the WB pirates.

It is obvious the admirals didnt go all out. Databooks said that Akainu and Aokini can create volcanos and icebergs but nothing like that was shown. Only time moves like Meteor Volcano, Ice Age or Yasaka Nagatama was used was when it was aimed at the ocean. Against WB and the commanders, the admirals only use small scale attacks.



> 5. It was also said that the Yonko are all at each other’s throats, but Admiral fanboys choose to ignore this when considering the balance of world powers.



What? The balance of powers was created and maintained by the World Governemnt. All yonko are enemies of the marines and alliances are not out of the question. 

Nice job on the fanboy card...cause apparantly you need to be a fanboy to understand basic story telling....



> 6. Any non-biased reader can see that Queen’s attack didn’t do shit to BM. She was acting like nothing happened afterwards and Oda made it clear that she fell asleep for different reasons.



Completely missed the point and enforced my own not that I'm surprised given what you said so far.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiroryu (Sep 1, 2019)

Old Man Van said:


> Wrong. If Luffy can beat Kaido, that means he can stop Beckman but there is no reason to mention them both in the same sentence.
> 
> Luffy said he has to stop BOTH the admirals and yonko aka if Luffy beats Kaido, an admiral can still stop Luffy and vice versa. If the strength difference between yonko and admirals is so vast, admirals wouldnt be a threat.
> 
> ...


You don’t seem to understand the idea that there’s strength in unity. Even if Luffy surpasses the Yonko, the Marines are still a threat because they can send multiple Admirals after him. 

So let me get this straight, attacking someone from behind is more cheap than hitting someone while they’re having a heart attack? Smh ‍. Don’t you Akainu fans like to say that he has FS? How did he get sneak attacked so easily then? Akainu used his DF powers to stop Base WB’d swing while having his hands in his pockets.

WB was called the WSM because the world didn’t know yet that WB’s sickness has deteriorated his strength. Hence why people at MF were surprised by Squardo landing a hit on him. WB even renounced his title. The other Yonko have better portrayal than MF WB.

Obviously I wasn’t being literal when I said they had 95% of their power... C’mon dude... the Marines didn’t bring in basic Marine soldiers because they would make no difference. Jinbe, Hancock, and Crocodile fighting them isn’t enough to make a noticeable difference.

I didn’t see WB using Awakening either.

Like I said, you don’t seem to understand strength in unity. It would be MUCH easier to take on the Yonko one at a time compared to fighting all 4 at once.

Funny how you shit on Yonko fans for using selective bias, but the only “proof” that you have for Admiral = Yonko is Chinjao mentioning them in the same breath. There’s so much more pointing to Yonko > Admiral, but you deny all of that in favor of one flimsy piece of evidence.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Old Man Van (Sep 1, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> You don’t seem to understand the idea that there’s strength in unity. Even if Luffy surpasses the Yonko, the Marines are still a threat because they can send multiple Admirals after him.



Oh so its multiple admirals and just a single emperor cause you said so?



> So let me get this straight, attacking someone from behind is more cheap than hitting someone while they’re having a heart attack? Smh ‍. Don’t you Akainu fans like to say that he has FS? How did he get sneak attacked so easily then? Akainu used his DF powers to stop Base WB’d swing while having his hands in his pockets.



"You Akainu fans"....why? You assume I'm an Akainu fan to make me look biased? Indirect invalidation like that doesnt work. Not once did I ever say Akainu had FS. I dont think I've even thought about it before.

Another lie.....Akainu with one leg stopped WB's quake powered bisento swung with both hands.

Both WB and Akainu got free shots on each other. Difference is that WB could've died from it. WB was helpless as fodder landed clean hits on him after Akainu stepped back so obviously Akainu could've done a lot more.



> WB was called the WSM because the world didn’t know yet that WB’s sickness has deteriorated his strength. Hence why people at MF were surprised by Squardo landing a hit on him. WB even renounced his title. The other Yonko have better portrayal than MF WB.



Not the point. What is the strength difference between MF WB and the other yonko? You dont know but many assume that it's big for obvious reasons.

All the admirals got the better of WB....Akainu could fight with his hands in his pockets.....Aokiji was seconds away from stabbing WB in the face but Jozu saved him....Kizaru shot a laser through WB without looking at him.....

How does any of this mean the yonko are better than the admirals I do not know.



> Obviously I wasn’t being literal when I said they had 95% of their power... C’mon dude... the Marines didn’t bring in basic Marine soldiers because they would make no difference. Jinbe, Hancock, and Crocodile fighting them isn’t enough to make a noticeable difference.



It can make all the difference but of course you would assume that.

Who were the key players on WB's side? The Impel Down team; a group of 5 fighters.....it was Luffy and Croc that saved Ace...it was Mr 3 that freed Ace and Marco from their cuffs....it was Croc, Iva and Jinbe that helped keep Luffy from Akainu....it was Luffy who kept the admirals' attention on him and not WB....just 5.....and they made that much of a difference.....



> I didn’t see WB using Awakening either.



No one used awakening. It's a moot point.



> Like I said, you don’t seem to understand strength in unity. It would be MUCH easier to take on the Yonko one at a time compared to fighting all 4 at once.



Ok? Marines+Shichibukai=4 Emperors.

Attacking one yonko doesnt mean another might attack or not. It's common sense for the marines to bring massive firepower for an emperor crew in order to lose as little resources as possible but its not that simple.



> Funny how you shit on Yonko fans for using selective bias, but the only “proof” that you have for Admiral = Yonko is Chinjao mentioning them in the same breath. There’s so much more pointing to Yonko > Admiral, but you deny all of that in favor of one flimsy piece of evidence.



All I ask for is fair n' consistent arguments. None of this "You're just an Akainu fanboy" shit that you keep spewing to avoid giving proper counter argument.

I have plenty of basic story telling evidence for the Admiral~Yonko point.

I gave you Chinjao and LUFFY'S direct statements....Yonko and Admirals have yet to go all out and are constantly restricted....both are portrayed as beings out of Luffy's league while Luffy can take out First Mates.....we have Jinbe telling Luffy about the changes in the admiral and yonko groups that shook the world.....the 3 biggest events of the time skip was the Payback War to crown a new emperor and the Admiral deathmatch to crown a new Fleet Admiral...its BOTH groups...

Yet with all this, you constantly lie, make assumptions and call people fanboys in an attempt to invalidate them. You need more than that.


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## Corax (Sep 1, 2019)

Threads like this needs to be locked at least before the end of next arc,when all yonko (including Shanks and BB) will have their feats. It is impossible to discuss the matter using on panel feats,if 2 yonko are completely featless and one of them (BM) has abysmal feats. At least she might have a good shot to show something worthwhile before the end of Wano.


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## xmysticgohanx (Sep 1, 2019)

1. Chinjao and Luffy mention the Emperors and Admirals in the same sentence

2. Mother Caramel differentiates Fleet Admiral from Admiral (talking about the Emperor Big Dweeb)

3. The King Punch uses Emperors as it’s top of the line example, not admirals

Best way to reconcile all this? FA = Emperors > Admirals

FA and Emperors are all extreme diff between each other. They all would then high diff the admirals. 

Marines I consider getting the FA scaling: Akainu, Aokiji, Garp, probably not Old Sengoku

Reactions: Like 4


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## Lord Melkor (Sep 1, 2019)

xmysticgohanx said:


> 1. Chinjao and Luffy mention the Emperors and Admirals in the same sentence
> 
> 2. Mother Caramel differentiates Fleet Admiral from Admiral (talking about the Emperor Big Dweeb)
> 
> ...



Finally some balanced view.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Old Man Van (Sep 1, 2019)

Strength difference between the yonko is negligible. Strength difference between the admirals is negligible. Pretty much a gap so small that it doesnt matter.

Kaido is the strongest but the other yonko are obviously on his level. Akainu is the Fleet Admiral but the other admirals are obviously on his level(Kizaru was never portrayed as decisively weaker). Kaido can lose to BM....Akainu can lose to Fujitora......

Only Roger, WB and Garp are a cut above the rest and maybe Sengoku.

Roger/WB/Garp>Current Top Tiers. Only those 3 can potentially high diff other top tiers.


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## Luke (Sep 1, 2019)

Old Man Van said:


> 3. You can use WB to elevate the yonko but not Garp for the admirals for some reason....



Old Garp always get underrated. Yes, he's not as strong as he was in his prime, but I see no good reason to believe he isn't at least on par with Akainu.


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## GreenBull956 (Sep 1, 2019)

The World Government was just preparing for the worst case with Emperors ( 4 of them allying ) 

The chance is small , but not exactly 0%

I guess this is similar to how United States is having Military Bases around the world ..... both are very high level of cautiousness
________________________________________
2 of Emperors are allying now though , so i think the argument "the Emperors will never ally with each other!!!" Isn't available anymore


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## oiety (Sep 1, 2019)

xmysticgohanx said:


> 1. Chinjao and Luffy mention the Emperors and Admirals in the same sentence
> 
> 2. Mother Caramel differentiates Fleet Admiral from Admiral (talking about the Emperor Big Dweeb)
> 
> ...



This tbh. Makes sense to me. Akainu's portrayal and feats in relation to the other admirals are like Heaven and Earth. Sans Aokiji, half of their hype is just scaling from him.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Red Admiral (Sep 2, 2019)

let's be honest ... 8 admiral fan here are far more active than Yonko base

guess that's the side effect of winners ... they don't have to try much

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1


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## Corax (Sep 2, 2019)

xmysticgohanx said:


> 1. Chinjao and Luffy mention the Emperors and Admirals in the same sentence
> 
> 2. Mother Caramel differentiates Fleet Admiral from Admiral (talking about the Emperor Big Dweeb)
> 
> ...


This isn't true if for example we use BM's feats (supposed "FA"). Her named Prometheus attack was blocked by Reiju. Her named Zeus attack was blocked by Sanji (who took no damage). Her named Napoleon Elbaf spear attack destroyed only a part of king Baum and failed to even KO him. How she can even scratch FA Akainu (or even MF admiral Akainu) by feats?She can't.Man took enraged WB quake punch twice in a row and still could fight and beat Jinbei,Ivankov and 13 commanders. Feats>words.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 2, 2019)

there is no strength relation between FA and admiral, its an administrative position
whoever gets nominated/supported by the top brass - gets it

*admirals* have been named as the *Marines greatest fighting force* many times




xmysticgohanx said:


> Marines I consider getting the FA scaling: Akainu, Aokiji, Garp


and Kizaru*
saying Aokiji > Kizaru at all, especilly by that much, is 100% baseless and fanon

Prime Sengoku may or may not have been at this level
same for Prime Kong


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## Yuji (Sep 2, 2019)

The evidence is overwhelmingly in favour of the Yonko

Some quotes:

_''Do you believe we can take on 2 legends at the same time?''_- Garp on Rayleigh
_''We would have to prepare ourselves in more ways than one if we were to even attempt to capture you''_ - Kizaru to Rayleigh
_''Don't go thinking we can overcome him with military might alone, we might actually be the ones to meet our end'' _- Sengoku on Whitebeard
_''All the forces required just to stop those 2 from meeting are here at reverie'' _- Garp on Big Mom and Kaido
_''If they were to make a return it would be an incident far beyond our imagination to do anything about'' _- Garp on Rocks
_''We were unable to lay a finger on you, you were being protected by Whitebeard himself''_ - Sengoku on why they didn't bring Ace in
_''Celestial dragons? The Marines? Know this, even if you all banded together you could not topple this country, I have Kaido himself at my back'' _- Orochi talking to CP0
_''With our pirate alliance, we'll take over the world then kill each other''_ - Kaido/Big Mom on their alliance

To just fight one Yonko and his subordinates, Sengoku rigged the entire battlefield with trap doors and steel walls, he had Whitebeard's son betray him and stab him through the chest and on top of that Whitebeard literally had to have a heart attack in the middle of a fight as well as the rest of the underhanded tactics they used on the Whitebeard pirates. On top of that Oda even had the Blackbeards weigh in and bring him down together. All of this just to make it believable that *one* Yonko could be defeated. He was also suffering from illness and was out of shape according to Marco.

2 admirals are being contended by just 4 revolutionary commanders, gear 3 Luffy is fighting Fujitora, Zoro is overcoming Fujitora's attack and pushing him back and even clashing with him in Stampede which Oda oversaw and approved everything. Meanwhile base O-Lin with no haki or memories almost 2 shots Queen. Meanwhile, Kaido one shots gear 4 future sight Luffy, Meanwhile non-devil fruit Whitebeard with 2 feet in the grave has yami-only Blackbeard on his knees begging for his life.

Whitebeard one shots Ace in his sleep, whilst Akainu with devil fruit superiority couldn't do it and needed Ace to jump in front of an attack aimed at Luffy to kill him.

These are the facts, and there's much more than this.

Some people like to throw around this quote:

_''Navy and Schichibukai balance out the Yonko'' _- Garp to Luffy

But seem to disregard the fact that the Yonko are not allied and it's actually Yonko vs Yonko vs Yonko vs Yonko vs Marines + Warlords

I have never seen a single piece of evidence to put admirals on the same tier as Yonko, it absolutely should not take 4 of them to take out this team. A complete wipe in favour of Yonko.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Kylo Ren (Sep 2, 2019)

Yonko for sure.




Red Admiral said:


> let's be honest ... 8 admiral fan here are far more active than Yonko base
> 
> guess that's the side effect of winners ... they don't have to try much


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 2, 2019)

m-muh yonkou


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## Skye (Sep 2, 2019)

The admirals know where the Yonkou are. If they were stronger than them, they would have just rolled on up their territory and defeated them. Im still of the mindset that Yonkou are stronger than Admirals.


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## Steven (Sep 2, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> m-muh yonkou


Admiral portrayal>Yonkou portrayal


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 2, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> Admiral portrayal>Yonkou portrayal


Helmeppo portrayal > Big Mom  portrayal


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## Steven (Sep 2, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Helmeppo portrayal > Big Mom  portrayal


Fucking Axe-Hand morgan has a better portrayal

Only WB´s portrayal was top.The rest of them are a bunch of clowns.Most of them holds more L´s then W´s

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Sep 2, 2019)

Marine lose their shit when Kaido and Big Mom were talking over den den moshi ...

I like to see their reaction when they hear about alliance


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## Corax (Sep 2, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Marine lose their shit when Kaido and Big Mom were talking over den den moshi ...
> 
> I like to see their reaction when they hear about alliance


Can I go, Akainu?

Reactions: Like 3


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## Red Admiral (Sep 2, 2019)

Corax said:


> Can I go, Akainu?



there is not enough weed in Wano ... he can't get to far away anyway


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## Old Man Van (Sep 2, 2019)

Yuji said:


> The evidence is overwhelmingly in favour of the Yonko
> 
> Some quotes:
> 
> ...



I can talk about all these quotes that stem from politics and circumstance individually but that would take too long. Instead:

"BM and Kaido are making an alliance! The only ones who can stop them are the admirals or the shichibukai!!"

So 3 Admirals alone can take out 2 Emperors and their crews if we take it at face value? I mean, you can use the Marines' quotes to elevate the yonko but cant do it for the admirals? That would be selective bias. Its politics and strats people....



> To just fight one Yonko and his subordinates, Sengoku rigged the entire battlefield with trap doors and steel walls, he had Whitebeard's son betray him and stab him through the chest and on top of that Whitebeard literally had to have a heart attack in the middle of a fight as well as the rest of the underhanded tactics they used on the Whitebeard pirates. On top of that Oda even had the Blackbeards weigh in and bring him down together. All of this just to make it believable that *one* Yonko could be defeated. He was also suffering from illness and was out of shape according to Marco.



Wrong, wrong, wrong.....doesnt even fit in with the theme of MF....you just assumed that Oda wanted to make it believable for a yonko to be beaten? Oda held back all the top tiers cause he never plays all his cards......Oda needed a war to end in a few hours(which guys who can fight for a week) so plot was very heavy.

And Sengoku going above and beyond for WB? Ovviously.....Marines want a decisive, one sided victory every time. Again its political......



> 2 admirals are being contended by just 4 revolutionary commanders, gear 3 Luffy is fighting Fujitora, Zoro is overcoming Fujitora's attack and pushing him back and even clashing with him in Stampede which Oda oversaw and approved everything. Meanwhile base O-Lin with no haki or memories almost 2 shots Queen. Meanwhile, Kaido one shots gear 4 future sight Luffy, Meanwhile non-devil fruit Whitebeard with 2 feet in the grave has yami-only Blackbeard on his knees begging for his life.



Selective bias.

BM couldnt hit Base Luffy and Jinbe.....Chopper held off giant Prometheus......Kaido was easily dodged by Luffy and knocked out of the sky.....Aokiji with no haki or big move one shotted Jozu...Akainu with nameless moves could fight Marco, Vista, 11 commanders and Croc without getting a scratch.

See how this works? It goes both ways.



> Whitebeard one shots Ace in his sleep, whilst Akainu with devil fruit superiority couldn't do it and needed Ace to jump in front of an attack aimed at Luffy to kill him.



Lies.....WB was swatting away a rookie Ace who was equal to Jinbe at the time. Ace was always never one shot...he always gave after failing an assassination and other times he was knocked into the ocean. Akainu also didnt need Ace to do that.....

This is a very dishonest comparison.



> These are the facts, and there's much more than this.
> 
> Some people like to throw around this quote:



No facts were given.....they were either lies or compromising info being swept under the rug....



> _''Navy and Schichibukai balance out the Yonko'' _- Garp to Luffy
> 
> But seem to disregard the fact that the Yonko are not allied and it's actually Yonko vs Yonko vs Yonko vs Yonko vs Marines + Warlords



So Garp's own statement that it's the THREE powers should be ignored in favor of SIX POWERS creates by certain fans? The yonko are all lumped together as ONE power.



> I have never seen a single piece of evidence to put admirals on the same tier as Yonko, it absolutely should not take 4 of them to take out this team. A complete wipe in favour of Yonko.



The evidence for Admirals and Yonko being on the same level is overwhelming....


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## xmysticgohanx (Sep 2, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> there is no strength relation between FA and admiral, its an administrative position
> whoever gets nominated/supported by the top brass - gets it
> 
> *admirals* have been named as the *Marines greatest fighting force* many times
> ...


 admirals are 3, FA are 1

also don’t forget Kaido > prime Ray > Ray = kizaru


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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Sep 2, 2019)

The Yonko easily win this one. The lore simply doesn't allow for the possibility for the admirals to win. 

All the admirals, all vice admirals,  all captains, all commodores and all the armies the marines have at their disposal _and _the lukewarm supports of the Shibukai combined is what balances out the four disunited Yonko's within the balance of power. For the admirals to be on par with a collection of Yonko that aren't even allied together they still need all the forces the marines have to offer and they still need the Shibukai. So if they need all this just to face the disunited Yonko how could the three hope to match the four Yonko working together while they are deprived of their marine mook and Shibukai partners? If the balance of power states the Marines must put everything they have in the battle then obviously the admirals alone will never be enough. 

And the Whitebeard war reflects this. The marines needed _everything. _Every vaguely important marine commander and a shit ton of mooks, as well as the Shibukai all had to gather at Marineport just to match a single Yonko. And on top of that they also needed a lot of strategic scheming and the arrival of the Blackbeard Pirates to finally get some semblance of a Phyric victory out of the whole mess.


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## Corax (Sep 2, 2019)

xmysticgohanx said:


> admirals are 3, FA are 1
> 
> also don’t forget Kaido > prime Ray > Ray = kizaru


Questionable with the new revelations. Oden was Ray's subordinate and the only one to seriously wound Kaido. If even Kaido>Prime Ray no less than near death extreme.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 2, 2019)

Kizaru > old Ray


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## Yuji (Sep 2, 2019)

I had to pick through your post a bit so I won't be responding to speculation on Oda's mindset or ad hominems, but here are a few mistakes you made.



Old Man Van said:


> So 3 Admirals alone can take out 2 Emperors and their crews if we take it at face value?



Take them out? The marine was talking about stopping them from meeting, not taking them out. This was backed up by Garp in the same chapter which I quoted for you earlier

''_The forces required just to stop those 2 from meeting are here at reverie''
_
No mention of taking them out.



Old Man Van said:


> BM couldnt hit Base Luffy and Jinbe.....Chopper held off giant Prometheus



Are you trying to say that Fujitora and Greenbull were suffering from memory loss, lack of devil fruit abilities/haki and/or hunger pangs which drives them to search for a giant cake and not bother too much with combat?

If not, you don't have a comparison here.

No, Fujitora and Greenbull were fresh, rested and had full access to all their powers and they were contended by 4 revolutionary commanders, commanders which should be lower than someone Kaido one shot with ease (apart from Sabo).



Old Man Van said:


> .Akainu with nameless moves could fight Marco, Vista, 11 commanders and Croc without getting a scratch.



Never happened, Sengoku ordered half the marine force to back up Akainu

_''All marines divide into 2 forces, one to subdue the Blackbeard pirates and one to pursue the Whitebeards''
_
There isn't a single panel of Akainu taking on all the commanders and Crocodile, the next panel we see he takes out Curiel and in the same panel we see a bunch of marines surrounding him with no other commander in sight. Standing in front of people and making a speech doesn't mean you took them all on.



Old Man Van said:


> So Garp's own statement that it's the THREE powers should be ignored in favor of SIX POWERS creates by certain fans? The yonko are all lumped together as ONE power.



By this logic the Schichibukai are equal  to the entire marine force since they are 3 great powers, I take it you don't agree with this though? Garp later goes on to say the the marines can't take on 2 legends at the same time and that Rocks would be an incident far beyond their imagination to do anything about so if you're listening to Garp you can see he clearly doesn't imagine the WG can take on more than one Yonko at a time.


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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Sep 2, 2019)

Soooooooo @Daisuke Jigen  saw fit to remove about 8000 points for my post. Now I'm quite curious on why exactly that is?

Not to tut my own horn but its quite a logical post. The balance of power is a thing. I'm pretty sure its discussed extensively. I'm incredibly sure I wasn't hallucinating just about every minor marine making a cameo in Marineford just to fight one Yonko. And while I'm a bit behind on the manga and its _technically_ possible its been since revealed the whole balance of power thing is a World Government hoax I rather doubt it. 

Sooooo @DaisukeJigen. Care to explain that one? Because if Oda did end up making it a plot twist that the balance of power is a Hoax(which I doubt) I'd happily concede you were right even if removing 8000 points for it is a tad much.


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## oiety (Sep 2, 2019)

OT:

Kaido~Mom~Shanks~FA Akainu~Yonko BB>=Aokiji>Kizaru~Fujitora

The willpower Iceman showed in going head to head with Akainu, along with willpower being such a focused object in this setting gives me reason to put him above other admirals, and closer to Akainu, even if he did lose.

But, though Aokiji and Akainu can definitely put up a good fight, they get weighed down by Kizaru and Fujitora, who imo will 100% lose to any Yonko they get matched up against, high diff or more. Afterwards, Bobby Drake and the Human Torch here get gangbanged.

High diff total, probably. Replace Borsalino and Issho with MF Garp and Prime Sengoku and you probably have a match.

Or go for the Marines+Shichis thing and have Aokiji+Akainu+Mf Garp+Mihawk vs Yonko.


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## Old Man Van (Sep 2, 2019)

Yuji said:


> I had to pick through your post a bit so I won't be responding to speculation on Oda's mindset or ad hominems, but here are a few mistakes you made.



I never speculated on Oda's mindset and didnt use any ad hominems.



> Take them out? The marine was talking about stopping them from meeting, not taking them out. This was backed up by Garp in the same chapter which I quoted for you earlier
> 
> ''_The forces required just to stop those 2 from meeting are here at reverie''
> _
> No mention of taking them out.



Did you not see when I said if we take them at FACE VALUE like the statements for the yonko. 



> Are you trying to say that Fujitora and Greenbull were suffering from memory loss, lack of devil fruit abilities/haki and/or hunger pangs which drives them to search for a giant cake and not bother too much with combat?
> 
> If not, you don't have a comparison here.
> 
> No, Fujitora and Greenbull were fresh, rested and had full access to all their powers and they were contended by 4 revolutionary commanders, commanders which should be lower than someone Kaido one shot with ease (apart from Sabo).



What? You're proving my point......

-Fresh BM was stalled by Base Luffy and Jinbe
-Chopper held off Prometheus
-Kaido was easily dodged by Base Luffy and knocked out of his zoan form by G3
-Fujitora was sent flying by G3
-a commander made Aokiji's lip bleed
-a commander cracked BM's skull

-Aokiji one shotted Jozu
-BM two shotted Queen(an ancient zoan)
-Akainu was unharmed from a sneak attack from Marco n' Vista
-BB ran away from Akainu saying he wasnt ready
-Kaido shotted Luffy
-Sabo was no match for Fujitora who was holding back.

It goes BOTH WAYS. 



> Never happened, Sengoku ordered half the marine force to back up Akainu
> 
> _''All marines divide into 2 forces, one to subdue the Blackbeard pirates and one to pursue the Whitebeards''
> _
> There isn't a single panel of Akainu taking on all the commanders and Crocodile, the next panel we see he takes out Curiel and in the same panel we see a bunch of marines surrounding him with no other commander in sight. Standing in front of people and making a speech doesn't mean you took them all on.



It did happen. It was directly stated that Akainu and the commanders were fighting. Akaiji fought alone and didnt get hurt and we saw explosions of magma. Marines showed up later and Akainu started winning on panel. 



> By this logic the Schichibukai are equal  to the entire marine force since they are 3 great powers, I take it you don't agree with this though? Garp later goes on to say the the marines can't take on 2 legends at the same time and that Rocks would be an incident far beyond their imagination to do anything about so if you're listening to Garp you can see he clearly doesn't imagine the WG can take on more than one Yonko at a time.



No....dont know why you even mention that....its called the THREE powers, not the SIX powers. That isnt debatable. Unlike the emperors who's forces are mostly in one place, Marines are scattered throughout 170 countries with the best of them staying in MF.

A BM-Kaido allaince makes up more than half of the marine forces which is a nightmare. The only way for the marines to deal with that is to gather a huge fighting force and them lose most of it taking out the ROCKS, leaving the Marines grossly crippled and underpowered.....islands with no protection.....Pirates would take over. 

Again, its political....not about individual power levels.....


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## Red Admiral (Sep 2, 2019)

Corax said:


> Questionable with the new revelations. Oden was Ray's subordinate and the only one to seriously wound Kaido. If even Kaido>Prime Ray no less than near death extreme.



still ... we don't know if Kadio got injured cause of Oden power or his sword Enma was the key


the fact that Kaido faced all Yonko and Marine and only have one scar
the fact that Oden had 2 swords and yet only one of them injured Kaido

put enough cloud of shade over this statement of yours


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## gogcho (Sep 2, 2019)

The most sensible opinion seems to be indeed the one expressed by xmystic, where Akainu = Emperor, whereas the other 3 Admirals are below their level. Kizaru and Aokiji slightly below Akainu, Fuji and Green a bit weaker than them (but still more powerful than FMs). Akainu is portrayed as a force to be reckoned with, like some kind of weapon of mass destruction, he's endgame for sure, up there with EoS Blackbeard.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Lord Melkor (Sep 2, 2019)

gogcho said:


> The most sensible opinion seems to be indeed the one expressed by xmystic, where Akainu = Emperor, whereas the other 3 Admirals are below their level. Kizaru and Aokiji slightly below Akainu, Fuji and Green a bit weaker than them (but still more powerful than FMs). Akainu is portrayed as a force to be reckoned with, like some kind of weapon of mass destruction, he's endgame for sure, up there with EoS Blackbeard.



Exactly this is shonen so Akainu is the strongest Marine (I think current Garp is weaker). He also seems to have greater willpower and determination than Kizaru, which matters.


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## Yuji (Sep 2, 2019)

Old Man Van said:


> It goes BOTH WAYS.



You just gave me a bunch of incomparable situations and told me it goes both ways that's not an argument, how do these compare?

For example Ao Kiji defeated a distracted Jozu, he even specifically mentioned that Jozu was distracted and it was implied they'd been fighting for a bit. Can you tell me how this compares to no devil fruit/haki/memories O-Lin almost completely wiping an on guard, ready to fight Queen?

And Sabo being no match for Fujitora? We literally saw him matching Fujitora without using a single named attack or haki he came out of the fight with a few scrapes.



Old Man Van said:


> It did happen. It was directly stated that Akainu and the commanders were fighting.



And just moments later Sengoku ordered the marines to split into 2 forces, and by the time Akainu was able to take down Curiel he was completely surrounded by marines and didn't put a scratch on any other Whitebeard commander.

Throwing a few attacks at someone before being backed up by half the marine force moments later =/= taking them on alone



Old Man Van said:


> No....dont know why you even mention that....its called the THREE powers



So for the record you do believe that Schichibukai = Marines?



Old Man Van said:


> A BM-Kaido allaince makes up more than half of the marine forces which is a nightmare. The only way for the marines to deal with that is to gather a huge fighting force and them lose most of it taking out the ROCKS, leaving the Marines grossly crippled and underpowered.....islands with no protection.....Pirates would take over.



This is just speculation and you completely ignored that Garp said they can't take on 2 legends at the same time and he was just talking about retired/old Rayleigh.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 2, 2019)

as long as we understand that Kizaru and Aokiji are only *slightly *below Akainu

Reactions: Like 1


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## Old Man Van (Sep 2, 2019)

Just so you all know, not once did I day Yonko=Admirals. Not once did I day the yonko arent stronger. I said yonko and admirals are the same level. If you think being on the same level is the same as being straight up equals I dont know what to say......



Yuji said:


> You just gave me a bunch of incomparable situations and told me it goes both ways that's not an argument, how do these compare?
> 
> For example Ao Kiji defeated a distracted Jozu, he even specifically mentioned that Jozu was distracted and it was implied they'd been fighting for a bit. Can you tell me how this compares to no devil fruit/haki/memories O-Lin almost completely wiping an on guard, ready to fight Queen?



They are very comparable. Both have good and bad feats. Problem is that people keep comparing the good feats of one group to the bad feats of the other group which is dishonest.



> And Sabo being no match for Fujitora? We literally saw him matching Fujitora without using a single named attack or haki he came out of the fight with a few scrapes.



 Sabo was going all out and had no reason to hold back. Sabo was covered in bruises and breathing heavily while Fujitora didnt have a scratch. It was directly pointed out that Fuji wasnt serious by Sabo himself. Sabo was clearly losing.....



> And just moments later Sengoku ordered the marines to split into 2 forces, and by the time Akainu was able to take down Curiel he was completely surrounded by marines and didn't put a scratch on any other Whitebeard commander.
> 
> Throwing a few attacks at someone before being backed up by half the marine force moments later =/= taking them on alone



Akainu was fighting them alone before back up showed up......how is that so hard to understand?



> So for the record you do believe that Schichibukai = Marines?



Why are so fixated on this? It's the three powers, not the six powers. Marines, Warlords and Yonko....created by the WG....maintained by the WG....

Marines=3 Emperors
Shichibukai= 1 Emperor
Marine+Shichibukai=4 Emperors

The warlord system is broken beyond belief and has people who dont fit the minimum standards. Technically the Marines+Warlords<4 Emperors




> This is just speculation and you completely ignored that Garp said they can't take on 2 legends at the same time and he was just talking about retired/old Rayleigh.



It's not speculation.....its factual that the Marines are spread thin throught 170 countries and that politics is the biggest factor.

Garp also never said that the marines CANT take them. He said to forget about Rayleigh as that requires resources they cant afford lose and "Do you expect the marines to take on 2 legends at the same time."

The Marines view WB and Rayleigh in their prime. They had no idea WB was even sick. Each requires special preparation as to not lose a chunk of resources. Sengoku himself said that they could meet their end cause WB has the power to destory the world(does that mean WB>everyone together?). Dude could sink MF and them with it which is situational.


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## Geralt-Singh (Sep 2, 2019)

gogcho said:


> The most sensible opinion seems to be indeed the one expressed by xmystic, where Akainu = Emperor, whereas the other 3 Admirals are below their level. Kizaru and Aokiji slightly below Akainu, Fuji and Green a bit weaker than them (but still more powerful than FMs). Akainu is portrayed as a force to be reckoned with, like some kind of weapon of mass destruction, he's endgame for sure, up there with EoS Blackbeard.



I agree about Kizaru, he's less relevant and has no ambition, with Sakazuki's mindset he would've been stronger

Aokiji is more relevant but is now definitely weaker because of his lost leg

Fujitora is most likely the next Fleet Admiral, I believe he'll play an important role at EoS so I won't be surprised if he is on par or even stronger than Sakazuki (pure headcanon but sounds reasonable)

Ryokugyu is a dark horse, no idea about him

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Sep 2, 2019)

Sakazuki-Singh said:


> I agree about Kizaru, he's less relevant and has no ambition, with Sakazuki's mindset he would've been stronger
> 
> Aokiji is more relevant but is now definitely weaker because of his lost leg
> 
> ...



for all Doffy told us Fujitora and Ryokugyu are equal

and fleet admiral is not always about power ... as Sengoku wasn't strongest Marine of his time .. so Fujitora being above Akainu cause of his next rank? not likely tbh ... but hay ...


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 2, 2019)

"Kizaru is weaker cause he appears stoned/didnt care about FA position" is fanon  evrything indicates Akainu >= Aokiji/Kizaru
his fruit is also broken

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Sep 2, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> "Kizaru is weaker cause he appears stoned/didnt care about FA position" is fanon  evrything indicates Akainu >= Aokiji/Kizaru
> his fruit is also broken


I agree ... but I would dislike your post anyway


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## Geralt-Singh (Sep 2, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> for all Doffy told us Fujitora and Ryokugyu are equal
> 
> and fleet admiral is not always about power ... as Sengoku wasn't strongest Marine of his time .. so Fujitora being above Akainu cause of his next rank? not likely tbh ... but hay ...



No, he just said that they both are beasts

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 2, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> I agree ... but I would dislike your post anyway


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## Old Man Van (Sep 2, 2019)

Sakazuki-Singh said:


> No, he just said that they both are beasts



Official translation says "I hear both you and Ryokugyu are full-on monsters with power to spare!!!"

Reactions: Like 2


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## CaptainCommander (Sep 2, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> for all Doffy told us Fujitora and Ryokugyu are equal
> 
> and fleet admiral is not always about power ... as *Sengoku wasn't strongest Marine of his time* .. so Fujitora being above Akainu cause of his next rank? not likely tbh ... but hay ...



Garp doesn't want the promotion. He' the exception, not the rule.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 2, 2019)

CaptainCommander said:


> Garp doesn't want the promotion. He' the exception, not the rule.



my point is : the strongest Marine is not always the fleet admiral ...

so .... I don't know what is you trying to say ...



Shiba D. Inu said:


>


I can't dislike god


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## Muah (Sep 2, 2019)

If two Yonkoys teaming up has the power to take over the world including the marines what makes you think 4 admirals can stop them?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Old Man Van (Sep 2, 2019)

Muah said:


> If two Yonkoys teaming up has the power to take over the world including the marines what makes you think 4 admirals can stop them?



WB had the power to destroy the world.....what you makes you think that every being in OP teaming up has the power to stop him?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Muah (Sep 2, 2019)

Old Man Van said:


> WB had the power to destroy the world.....what you makes you think that every being in OP teaming up has the power to stop him?


You do know that the entire marines came together Nd couldn't stop Whitebeard even with hostages. Whitebesrd could have done what he did and walked away. the only reason he died is because he chose to.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Old Man Van (Sep 2, 2019)

Muah said:


> You do know that the entire marines came together Nd couldn't stop Whitebeard even with hostages. Whitebesrd could have done what he did and walked away. the only reason he died is because he chose to.



So what what you're saying is that WB could legit destroy the world with no one stopping him? And you're saying WB purposely let himself get hit all those times?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 2, 2019)

Muah said:


> two Yonkoys teaming up has the power to take over the world





Muah said:


> the entire marines came together Nd couldn't stop Whitebeard even with hostages. Whitebesrd could have done what he did and walked away.


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## Law (Sep 2, 2019)

1 yonko v 1 yonko v 1 yonko v 1 yonko = stalemate

So could 2 yonko can be cancelled out by 2 yonko?

*Wrong*. 2 yonko > 2 yonko + WG and it's allies and the rest of the world.


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## xmysticgohanx (Sep 2, 2019)

Once 2 emperors ally up, Mihawk will annihilate them within 10 pictoseconds. He’s letting Luffy and Zoro do that right now. Mihawk is lurking in the shadows


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## Flame (Sep 2, 2019)

Haven't been in the Battledome for a while now and I come back to threads like these in 2019...


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 2, 2019)

ther are only 2 threads in BD

Shanks vs Mihawk
and admirals vs Yonkou that eventually turns into Shanks vs Mihawk

Reactions: Like 2


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## gogcho (Sep 2, 2019)

I mean, I get it, I definitely understand why Yonkos are overhyped and seen as stronger then Admirals, even a tier above them; after all this manga is about pirates and Luffy has to overcome them sooner or later if he is to become the PK. They are a lot cooler to boost, I mean look at the Aokiji introduction: an old man sleeping behind a rock, vs the Kaido introduction, an immortal beast.
That being said, Admirals are definitely up there, Akainu was victorious (blow for blow) over WB; he was never knocked-out and he inflicted fatal injuries on WB, and not visa versa; and Kizaru and Aokiji are implied to be more or less on the same level as Akainu.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Red Admiral (Sep 2, 2019)

gogcho said:


> I mean, I get it, I definitely understand why Yonkos are overhyped and seen as stronger then Admirals, even a tier above them; after all this manga is about pirates and Luffy has to overcome them sooner or later if he is to become the PK. They are a lot cooler to boost, I mean look at the Aokiji introduction: an old man sleeping behind a rock, vs the Kaido introduction, an immortal beast.
> That being said, Admirals are definitely up there, Akainu was victorious (blow for blow) over WB; he was never knocked-out and he inflicted fatal injuries on WB, and not visa versa; and Kizaru and Aokiji are implied to be more or less on the same level as Akainu.



Admirals are top tiers and should have high respect ... but for many people including me an old sick Whitebeard is not a good measure of power for Yonko

I mean ... he got injured by bullets and swords ... that's just sad

still ... a Yonko can't let his guard down in front of an admiral eve for a while or he may pay a HIGH cost and fight in between high to extreme diff any way



but majority of fandom can agree on Yonko > Admiral ... cause this is what story implied so far


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## Ruse (Sep 2, 2019)

Honestly If/When Oda has an Admiral clash with another Yonko again I’m convinced this place will disintegrate.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Red Admiral (Sep 2, 2019)

Ruse said:


> Honestly If/When Oda has an Admiral clash with another Yonko again I’m convinced this place will disintegrate.


you think why we still don't have an answer after 22 years?

cause Oda know this as well


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## Muah (Sep 2, 2019)

Old Man Van said:


> So what what you're saying is that WB could legit destroy the world with no one stopping him? And you're saying WB purposely let himself get hit all those times?


no. I can't even reply seriously without calling you a word that will get me banned.


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## Old Man Van (Sep 2, 2019)

Muah said:


> no. I can't even reply seriously without calling you a word that will get me banned.



So you resort to getting hostile when you run out of arguments? Cause this is a very random and unnecessary response.

You said WB can do whatever he wants even confronted by 6 top tiers and never responded to WB's world destroyer talk. Your logic says WB can handle every being in the world at the same time.

Reactions: Like 1


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## GreenBull956 (Sep 2, 2019)

gogcho said:


> I mean, I get it, I definitely understand why Yonkos are overhyped and seen as stronger then Admirals, even a tier above them; after all this manga is about pirates and Luffy has to overcome them sooner or later if he is to become the PK. They are a lot cooler to boost, I mean look at the Aokiji introduction: an old man sleeping behind a rock, vs the Kaido introduction, an immortal beast.
> That being said, Admirals are definitely up there, Akainu was victorious (blow for blow) over WB; he was never knocked-out and he inflicted fatal injuries on WB, and not visa versa; and Kizaru and Aokiji are implied to be more or less on the same level as Akainu.


I don't think Kaido is immortal , that was just overhyping from some fans , he couldn't recover from an attack of someone who will probably surpassed by Zoro this arc


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## Corax (Sep 3, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Admirals are top tiers and should have high respect ... but for many people including me an old sick Whitebeard is not a good measure of power for Yonko
> 
> I mean ... he got injured by bullets and swords ... that's just sad
> 
> ...


Implied currenly or in the long run?Currently he has to surpass them to reach PK lvl. This makes sense. But he has to surpass Roger and not get executed by WG (and likely take down WG). And WG is CPO+Marines more or less. So his next objective will be fight to Marines and CP0 (unless WG will surrender without any fights).


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## Red Admiral (Sep 3, 2019)

Corax said:


> Implied currenly or in the long run?Currently he has to surpass them to reach PK lvl. This makes sense. But he has to surpass Roger and not get executed by WG (and likely take down WG). And WG is CPO+Marines more or less. So his next objective will be fight to Marines and CP0 (unless WG will surrender without any fights).


end game is Imu or Gorosei .... not Marine and CP


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## Corax (Sep 3, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> end game is Imu or Gorosei .... not Marine and CP


Even if for some reason last battle will be vs Imu and Gorosei,second to last will be MF 2.0 vs Marines and CP0. Still EOS.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 3, 2019)

Corax said:


> Even if for some reason last battle will be vs Imu and Gorosei,second to last will be MF 2.0 vs Marines and CP0. Still EOS.



yes ... but this time allies of Luffy are MUCH MUCH MORE than WBP 


RA
RHP - or remaining of them
WBP-or remaining of them
Warlords - or remaining of them
Wano 
Elbaf
Fish-man
Grand fleet
Legends like Dark King
traitors of WG (Garp/Fujitora)
are THE LEAST we can expect form last alliance


and if Luffy is about to have an all out fight with Imu or Gorosei ... he can't have a all out fight with Akainu or other admirals ... *unless you think it's possible for Luffy to Bet 2 top tiers in a row*


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## Corax (Sep 3, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> and if Luffy is about to have an all out fight with Imu or Gorosei ... he can't have a all out fight with Akainu or other admirals ... *unless you think it's possible for Luffy to Bet 2 top tiers in a row*


It was possible for him to beat Cracker and Katakuri in the same day (and Bruno/Lucci). EOS Luffy will be god tier (PK+). See no reason why he wouldn't have 2 fights in the same ark.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 3, 2019)

Corax said:


> It was possible for him to beat Cracker and Katakuri in the same day (and Bruno/Lucci). EOS Luffy will be god tier (PK+). See no reason why he wouldn't have 2 fights in the same ark.



if you think Luffy can beat Akainu and be fresh enough to beat Imu after than during a battlefield 

I guess I have more respect for Akainu's power than you have

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Corax (Sep 3, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> if you think Luffy can beat Akainu and be fresh enough to beat Imu after than during a battlefield
> 
> I guess I have more respect for Akainu's power than you have


His Imu fight might happen a day or even a week after. All depends on arc structure.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 3, 2019)

Corax said:


> His Imu fight might happen a day or even a week after. All depends on arc structure.



this is a war ... you don't get break during a war

it's not Oda's style

if you get to Akainu ... it means you are in the last line of WG anyway

Dragon Vs Akainu seem like a better match up for plot ... sure Luffy would fight him a bit but not as main enemy


but keep going like this is a waste of time ... head canon Vs head canon is pointless


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## Fel1x (Sep 3, 2019)

4 current Yonko teaming up = world would be low diffed

yeah, Imu-sama probably too

Reactions: Like 1


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## ice demon slayer (Sep 4, 2019)

Kizaru solos

Reactions: Like 2


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 4, 2019)

have the yonkou ever been soloed at the speed of light ?

Reactions: Like 2


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## ice demon slayer (Sep 4, 2019)

They can't éven react to him
So rip

Reactions: Like 2


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## Geralt-Singh (Sep 4, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> have the yonkou ever been soloed at the speed of light ?

Reactions: Like 1


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## AmitDS (Sep 5, 2019)

I thought it was obvious that the colour trio are equals but Akainu's will power would make him 'special' and edge out a win more often than not. Jinbei confirmed that Kuzan and him fought equally for 10 days and dealt one another severe wounds until Akainu finally won in the end. The stressing of the 'fighting equally' and our knowledge of Akainu himself would most likel lead to a flashback or something where we see exactly how he won and I won't be shocked if it's not because of power but because of will power in the end.


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## Turrin (Sep 6, 2019)

Imo the Admirals are equivalent to the Yonko in combat ability or close; but the Yonko all have some gimmick beyond their normal combat ability. In WB case it was that with the Gura he could literally end the world and no one could match him in raw power. With Kaidou it’s that he’s immortal and no one can kill him. With Mom it’s her sheer hax of the soul fruit and ability to augment her fighting power instantly through the generation of homies. In the case of Shanks we don’t know, but I suspect it will be CoC relatedz

Ether way in a direct competition I would favor the Yonko due to their extra abilities the Admirals don’t have. For example if WB really wanted to he could draw with all three Admirals by destroying the world or to a lesser extent destroying the entire area around them and sinking the entire battlefield into the ocean. And unless the Admirals know the secret to circumventing Kaidou immortality the best they could do is capture him, but if they don’t have sea-stone handcuffs Kaidou could just fight all 3 of them endlessly. And so on 

With that said if we take those gimmicks away the Admirals can win; we saw this with the color Trio challenging WB; and Kizaru being willing to fight Mom or Kaidou to stop their meeting.


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## CaptainCommander (Sep 6, 2019)

Corax said:


> Even if for some reason last battle will be vs Imu and Gorosei,second to last will be MF 2.0 vs Marines and CP0. Still EOS.



Nah, those flunkies are getting off panelled right now. Soon the Wg will wash their hands of Admirals and move on to the great cleanse.


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## Beast (Sep 6, 2019)

Shanks>~ Akainu
Kaidou> Aokiji 
Kizaru> BM 
Fuji~ BB

Could either way depending on the match ups but I’ll go with Yonko more times than not. 

IC the admirals win
BD the yonko win


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## Shiroryu (Sep 6, 2019)

MasterBeast said:


> Shanks>~ Akainu
> Kaidou> Aokiji
> Kizaru> BM
> Fuji~ BB
> ...


Why is Fuji equal to BB?
Why is Kizaru > BM when Kaido is > Aokiji?


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## Eliyua23 (Sep 6, 2019)

Yonko are stronger outside of Akainu although they could all compete with Kaido or Big Mom


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## Magentabeard (Sep 6, 2019)

Yonkous win upper low difficulty. Individually a yonkou needs mid to high difficulty to beat an admiral, and this is that matchup 4 times, even in a team battle the difference is magnified. First the yonkou blitz Fujitora then beat the remaining admirals who put up a bit of resistance. Also blackbeard using darkness aoe to cancel DFs makes the colored trio way weaker than usual. Admirals have no chance here.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Steven (Sep 6, 2019)

Magentabeard said:


> Yonkous win upper low difficulty. Individually a yonkou needs mid to high difficulty to beat an admiral, and this is that matchup 4 times, even in a team battle the difference is magnified. First the yonkou blitz Fujitora then beat the remaining admirals who put up a bit of resistance. Also blackbeard using darkness aoe to cancel DFs makes the colored trio way weaker than usual. Admirals have no chance here.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Corax (Sep 6, 2019)

Acnologia said:


>


Best post of this thread.


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## Steven (Sep 6, 2019)

Corax said:


> Best post of this thread.


"First the yonkou blitz Fujitora"

Kizaru blitz Big Meme

She is well know for being piss slow


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## Corax (Sep 6, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> "First the yonkou blitz Fujitora"
> 
> Kizaru blitz Big Meme
> 
> She is well know for being piss slow


She screams and KO all admirals low diff. Magentabeard has Oda's insiders info. This will happen soon in Wano.


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## Steven (Sep 6, 2019)

Corax said:


> She screams and KO all admirals low diff. Magentabeard has Oda's insiders info. This will happen soon in Wano.


Does BM even have good CoO?Or in general CoO?Cant remember she used it once


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## Corax (Sep 6, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> Does BM even have good CoO?Or in general CoO?Cant remember she used it once


Good enough to almost stop god Brooke from blitzing her. Brooke barely made it and had to calculate more future variants than her,just by 1 future line.


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## Steven (Sep 6, 2019)

Corax said:


> Good enough to almost stop god Brooke from blitzing her. Brooke barely made it and had to calculate more future variants than her,just by 1 future line.


Oh yeah now i remember.Brook had a hard time @ blitzing BM


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## Corax (Sep 6, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> Oh yeah now i remember.Brook had a hard time @ blitzing BM


Also good enough to almost dodge FTL Queen's dino free fall from that Udon complex. And almost spot King's attack.


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## Steven (Sep 6, 2019)

Corax said:


> Also good enough to almost dodge FTL Queen's dino free fall from that Udon complex. And almost spot King's attack.


At least BM is MFTL at screaming cake

Reactions: Like 2


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## Corax (Sep 6, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> At least BM is MFTL at screaming cake


Screaming cake


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## Steven (Sep 6, 2019)

Corax said:


> Screaming cake



Top-Tier Char

Blitzed by Brook
Trolled by Nami
Stopped by Jinbei and Chopper
almost died after falling from her castle

Reactions: Like 1


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## Flame (Sep 6, 2019)

Is this another Big Mom roasting session thread?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Steven (Sep 6, 2019)

Flame said:


> Is this *another* Big Mom roasting session thread?


I thought all threads were the same

Reactions: Like 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Sep 9, 2019)

xmysticgohanx said:


> 1. Chinjao and Luffy mention the Emperors and Admirals in the same sentence
> 
> 2. Mother Caramel differentiates Fleet Admiral from Admiral (talking about the Emperor Big Dweeb)
> 
> ...


Old Sengoku was actually the FA.


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## Gianfi (Sep 9, 2019)

Can't believe this thread has escalated and got locked. Also, I see the yonko got quite a lead on admirals, thought it would have been more even. Guess those who shit on Yonko aren't just as numerous as it seems, but they post a lot, gg guys for the effort


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## Red Admiral (Sep 9, 2019)

Gianfi said:


> Can't believe this thread has escalated and got locked. Also, I see the yonko got quite a lead on admirals, thought it would have been more even. Guess those who shit on Yonko aren't just as numerous as it seems, but they post a lot, gg guys for the effort


Yonko > admiral is a general belief in the one piece fandom ( not fact ... I give them that)

but the minority are the loud ones ...


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## Flame (Sep 9, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Yonko > admiral is a general belief in the one piece fandom ( not fact ... I give them that)
> 
> but the minority are the loud ones ...


It's not that the minority is the loud one, it's that once a minority opinion pops up, everyone in the majority starts bashing it and cause more drama


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## xmysticgohanx (Sep 9, 2019)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Old Sengoku was actually the FA.


 he was promoted to FA before he got old. also the db says it was because of his tactical genius


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## ImpalerDragon (Sep 9, 2019)

Any of teh yonku can win this on them own. This is based on big mom being stronger than her full crew and allies. Admirals are paired with yonku commandments like we see at marineford. A admiral cannot, i repeat cannot defeating a yonou commandment with no distraction. 1 yonkou is stronger than the whole admiral team.


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## Steven (Sep 9, 2019)

ImpalerDragon said:


> Any of teh yonku can win this on them own. This is based on big mom being stronger than her full crew and allies. Admirals are paired with yonku commandments like we see at marineford. A admiral cannot, i repeat cannot defeating a yonou commandment with no distraction. 1 yonkou is stronger than the whole admiral team.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Sep 9, 2019)

Flame said:


> It's not that the minority is the loud one, it's that once a minority opinion pops up, everyone in the majority starts bashing it and cause more drama



well ... cause we as human race don't want to live knowing there is bullshit out there and we didn't even tried to shut it down

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Sep 9, 2019)

xmysticgohanx said:


> he was promoted to FA before he got old. also the db says it was because of his tactical genius


Intelligence plays a role in deciding a character’s overall power though.



ImpalerDragon said:


> Any of teh yonku can win this on them own. This is based on big mom being stronger than her full crew and allies. Admirals are paired with yonku commandments like we see at marineford. A admiral cannot, i repeat cannot defeating a yonou commandment with no distraction. 1 yonkou is stronger than the whole admiral team.


This is completely absurd. The Admirals are roughly on the same level as the Emperors and above the Commanders.


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## xmysticgohanx (Sep 9, 2019)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Intelligence plays a role in deciding a character’s overall power though.


 not as much as physical stats


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## Lee-Sensei (Sep 9, 2019)

xmysticgohanx said:


> not as much as physical stats


That depends on how you look at things. One of the reasons Doflamingo is strong, is that he was intelligent enough to figure out a bunch of different uses for the String a String Fruit. Still... I get what you’re saying.


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## Seraphoenix (Sep 10, 2019)

@Shiba D. Inu don't ever rate any of my posts again.


Acnologia said:


>


Laugh all you want but he is right. You won't find a single panel of a top commander level character being overpowered by an Admiral without a distraction despite multiple fights.

You guys won't talk about that though. Rather throw in a tier specialist or a pepe as a response.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Steven (Sep 10, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> @Shiba D. Inu don't ever rate any of my posts again.
> 
> Laugh all you want but he is right. You won't find a single panel of a top commander level character being overpowered by an Admiral without a distraction despite multiple fights.
> 
> You guys won't talk about that though. Rather throw in a tier specialist or a pepe as a response.


Was one of the Admirals ever blitzed by brook?

Reactions: Like 3


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## Gianfi (Sep 10, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> Was one of the Admirals ever blitzed by brook?


Well, Garp, who is ~Admirals, got blitzed by Axe-hand Morgan


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## Amol (Sep 10, 2019)

Yeah let's not use stupid low end feats. That is just intellectual dishonesty. 
It is like arguing that Silver Surfer is a street tier because Spiderman once tagged him.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Steven (Sep 10, 2019)

Gianfi said:


> Well, Garp, who is ~Admirals, got blitzed by Axe-hand Morgan


Not rly.

Garp tanked that shit for da lulz.He had no reason to dodge his attack


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## Corax (Sep 10, 2019)

BM has just too many "low lvl. feats". Someone here has even a compilation of her epic fails. This is just an undeniable fact.


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## Corax (Sep 10, 2019)

Daisuke Jigen said:


> “Messed her around.”
> - The SHs rescued Brook from her in a comedy scene.
> - She got tricked by a fake skeleton with seaweed for hair.
> - Her Tea Party got ruined.
> ...


Btw it isn't even complete. No mention of Reiju tanking her named attack,Jinbei dodging 100% BM and base Luffy running circles around her in Udon.


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## Sabco (Sep 10, 2019)

Emperor = Fleet Admiral ( Prime Garp / Sakazuki level )

Current 3 Admirals = slightly below an Emperor



Key word :* Even* Fleet Admiral. now some will say Viz translation was different :



Again, if Fleet Admiral was equal to Admiral then why did Mother Carmel say "or" since it's the same ballpark of strength ?


We shouldn't use Sakazuki's feats and portrayal to hype other admirals. he was the only Marine hyped in interviews, vivre cards and data book. Issho was getting pushed back by G3 and disrespected by Doflamingo meanwhile Sakazuki clashed evenly with an Emperor and intimidated Blackbeard.

Sakazuki = The Marine Luffy
Issho, Borsalino, Greenbull = The 3 Zoros

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Sep 10, 2019)

Edward-Teach said:


> Emperor = Fleet Admiral ( Prime Garp / Sakazuki level )
> 
> Current 3 Admirals = slightly below an Emperor
> 
> ...



OK ... but here is the thing

she is talking about Big Mom who yet didn't eat her DF ...

so if you want to say

DFless Big Mom = Fleet Admiral
DF user Big Mom = Yonko

seem about alright to me

p.s

the gap of Luffy and Zoro is not as close as Akainu and Kizaru ... stop wanking Zoro


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## Lee-Sensei (Sep 10, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> @Shiba D. Inu don't ever rate any of my posts again.
> 
> Laugh all you want but he is right. You won't find a single panel of a top commander level character being overpowered by an Admiral without a distraction despite multiple fights.
> 
> You guys won't talk about that though. Rather throw in a tier specialist or a pepe as a response.


Didn’t Akainu take on all of WB’s Commanders and Crocodile at the same time while wounded?


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## Geralt-Singh (Sep 10, 2019)

C3 was stronger than MF FA Sengoku
Kuzan was chosen to be FA despite being slightly weaker than Sakazuki


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## Red Admiral (Sep 10, 2019)

Corax said:


> BM has just too many "low lvl. feats". Someone here has even a compilation of her epic fails. This is just an undeniable fact.



if not being able to beat plot armor is low feat than 3 admirals and Mihawk too failed in beating the plot armor and kill Luffy

Big Mom have 3 days long neck to neck fight with Kaido and knowing

Kaido attacks can do this 


and Big Mom attack can do this




3 days long fight and being CLEAN after than is just stupidly strong

and knowing 





Big mom 
with no Haki 
with no weapon
with no DF
with no memory on how to fight 


really washed a YC2 ....


put her on the top of the feat in one piece verse


Kaido and Big Mom are strongest if we judge ONLY be feat ... this is a fact too

Reactions: Like 1


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## trance (Sep 10, 2019)

the great war rages on i see

not that i expected any differently of course


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## Sabco (Sep 10, 2019)

Sakazuki-Singh said:


> C3 was stronger than MF FA Sengoku
> Kuzan was chosen to be FA despite being slightly weaker than Sakazuki



i know but i said :



Edward-Teach said:


> *Current* 3 Admirals = slightly below an Emperor



and the difference isn't extreme, it's bigger.

Let's see what Sakazuki did in comparison :

1. Clashed evenly with an Emperor, stopped Whitebeard's Gekishin. ( Issho and Greenbull were having a close battle against fucking Sabo and three high tiers )

2. Stopped an Emperor's DF attack with one leg ( Issho was pushed by Gear Third, Kizaru was pushed by Marco )

3. Intimidated Blackbeard and his entire crew ( Issho was attacked and disrespected by Doflamingo )

4. Laughed at Marco + Vista Haki ambush ( Kizaru bleeds from old Rayleigh's first slash since two decades )

5. Hyped by Oda to find Laugh Tale

6. Hyped in vivre cards to have the highest tier of offense among DFs

7. Portrayal wise scarred the protagonist, killed his brother, and gave him a trauma

8. Defeated Kuzan and destroyed one of his limbs, he didn't lose any and is shown in perfect shape. was stated to have *sparred *Kuzan's life. made the Marine more powerful than ever under his rule


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## Seraphoenix (Sep 10, 2019)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Didn’t Akainu take on all of WB’s Commanders and Crocodile at the same time while wounded?


"You won't find a single panel of a top commander level character being overpowered by an Admiral without a distraction despite multiple fights."


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 10, 2019)

Sakazuki is indeed >= Aokiji and Kizaru


but this is *not* in any way, shape or form proof that FA is _always_ > or >= admirals


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## Steven (Sep 10, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> if not being able to beat plot armor is low feat than 3 admirals and Mihawk too failed in beating the plot armor and kill Luffy
> 
> Big Mom have 3 days long neck to neck fight with Kaido and knowing
> 
> ...


Divine Thunder is a massiv outlier


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## Sabco (Sep 10, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Sakazuki is indeed >= Aokiji and Kizaru
> 
> 
> but this is *not* in any way, shape or form proof that FA is _always_ > or >= admirals



Did i say it's always the case ? the Mother Carmel flashback happened after the time skip ( 200+ chapters ) and after Sakazuki became FA, and the marine hierarchy changed drastically with the previous marine legend resigning. Oda definitely have a different view to where the FA stand now. the new Marine hierarchy is : the current FA > current Admiral ( high diff at _maximum _)



Rakuyo said:


> unnecessary akainu wank/admirals not named akainu downplay



last time i checked, i was presenting a comparison between them and how they can deal with multiple obstacles.

Am i downplaying them because i don't use Akainu's feats in debates to support them ? there's a difference between having the same destructive capacity and having other attributes. all the admirals have insane DC, they can copy what Akainu and Aokiji did in Punk Hazard. that isane DC is something all admirals share. but there are some attributes belonging to Akainu that we shouldn't give to anyone based on them sharing the rank or based on the Punk Hazard Duel. Akainu was paired with bigger foes, endured more, striked harder, is more linked to the plot, was highlighted a couple of times, are we downplaying the admirals because we don't give them these attributes ? obviously no


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## Lee-Sensei (Sep 10, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> "You won't find a single panel of a top commander level character being overpowered by an Admiral without a distraction despite multiple fights."


Has an Emperor ever beaten an Admiral on panel? And before you say it... Akainu wasn’t defeated by Whitebeard. He took a couple of his strongest blows, but he wasn’t unconscious and he continued to fight while he his attacks against Whitebeard were fatal. He both melted his insides and melted offf a third of his face. WB was also the most powerful Emperor.


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## Shiroryu (Sep 10, 2019)

Corax said:


> Btw it isn't even complete. No mention of Reiju tanking her named attack,Jinbei dodging 100% BM and base Luffy running circles around her in Udon.


80% of these aren’t even power level related, and most of the other ones can easily be debunked


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## Seraphoenix (Sep 10, 2019)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Has an Emperor ever beaten an Admiral on panel? And before you say it... Akainu wasn’t defeated by Whitebeard. He took a couple of his strongest blows, but he wasn’t unconscious and he continued to fight while he his attacks against Whitebeard were fatal. He both melted his insides and melted offf a third of his face. WB was also the most powerful Emperor.


No one who wants to be taken seriously thinks MF WB was the most powerful Emperor when he could hardly use haki and was prone to heart attacks.


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## Lord Melkor (Sep 10, 2019)

I think we can all at least agree that Akainu has the best portrayal, hype and feats out of any Admirals. It is debatatable how big is the gap between him and Admirals other than Aokiji, who was extreme difficulty fight for pre-ts Akainu. But logically Kizaru should be close to Aokiji (similar level or portrayal and feats in  Marineford), and it wouldnt' make sense for new Admirals to be much below Kizaru, otherwise why say that Akainu's Marines are stronger? It is also debatable if current Akainu is noticeably stronger than pre-ts Akainu, he is propably slightly stronger after two years of experience and his epic battle against Aokiji, but I cannot imagine him beating any other Admiral known with less than high difficulty.

So I agree with putting Akainu at Emperor level and other Admirals slightly below for now.


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## Yuji (Sep 10, 2019)

Corax said:


> Btw it isn't even complete. No mention of Reiju tanking her named attack,Jinbei dodging 100% BM and base Luffy running circles around her in Udon.



If you want to use these to downplay Big Mom, my question is why are you not consistent when it comes to downplaying the admirals this way?

Pre-timeskip Luffy tanked Sengoku's Buddha form and Kizaru's kick, Pre-timeskip Buggy dodged Akainu's attack whilst carrying both Jinbei and Luffy, Jinbei caught Akainu's attack and repelled it without even using Shark skin


How come no devil fruit, haki or memories Big Mom is downplayed because she can't tag post timeskip, future sight Luffy, but serious 100% Akainu gets a pass even though he couldn't hit pre-timeskip Buggy who is carrying fatass Jinbei and Luffy?

How come Fujitora gets a pass even though he was smashed around a battlefield and injured by gear 3 Luffy, but starving/weakened Big Mom who was just searching for cake, is downplayed because her swat attack was blocked by Chopper?

Reactions: Like 4


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## Corax (Sep 10, 2019)

Yuji said:


> If you want to use these to downplay Big Mom, my question is why are you not consistent when it comes to downplaying the admirals this way?
> 
> Pre-timeskip Luffy tanked Sengoku's Buddha form and Kizaru's kick, Pre-timeskip Buggy dodged Akainu's attack whilst carrying both Jinbei and Luffy, Jinbei caught Akainu's attack and repelled it without even using Shark skin
> 
> ...


You can also add here Garp vs Axe hand Morgan. But you really know that BM has all admiral and yonko fails combined and multiplied by 3. She has like 20+ (I am too lazy to count) bad portrayal moments. This is more than all top tier combined really.


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## Gianfi (Sep 10, 2019)

Corax said:


> You can also add here Garp vs Axe hand Morgan. But you really know that BM has all admiral and yonko fails combined and multiplied by 3. She has like 20+ (I am too lazy to count) bad portrayal moments. This is more than all top tier combined really.


But this is just not true...


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## Yuji (Sep 10, 2019)

Corax said:


> You can also add here Garp vs Axe hand Morgan. But you really know that BM has all admiral and yonko fails combined and multiplied by 3. She has like 20+ (I am too lazy to count) bad portrayal moments. This is more than all top tier combined really.



You can only call most of them fails out of context though

A fail for me, (or at least a failure to live up to the expectations projected by his fanbase) is when serious, 100% not nerfed in any way Ao Kiji was only able to clash evenly with Ace by using a named attack. *You can't explain this away with context, if you're trying to compare Ao Kiji to a Yonko this directly shows how he failed to live up to expectations.* The same applies to Akainu when he clashed with Ace, he only inflicted minor injuries right up until the point where Ace sacrificed himself, Akainu somehow gets credit for people literally throwing themselves in front of his attacks wtf? Akainu somehow gets credit for hitting a Whitebeard who was on his knees suffering from a heart attack unable to fight back in any way???

Big Mom getting stalled by the Straw Hats on the other hand can easily be explained with context, she was in starvation mode, they had 2 literal counters to her powers on the ship and she was really only searching for cake, her words right before Jinbei hit her was 'wedding cake'. And even after they did all that, they still would have died without Sanji's cake. So whilst you might be able to call this Oda messing with Big Mom, this is not a power level fail in any respect.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Corax (Sep 10, 2019)

Gianfi said:


> But this is just not true...


Messed her around.”
- The SHs rescued Brook from her in a comedy scene. 1
- She got tricked by a fake skeleton with seaweed for hair. 2
- Her Tea Party got ruined. 3
- The photo of Caramel was destroyed by Brook. 4
- Her castle got destroyed. 5
- She was reduced to a literal drooling idiot screaming CAAAAAAKE for almost 30 chapters. 6
- Her island level slash only took off part of a fucking tree. 7
- Got flung off Zeus by Nami. 8
- Got blasted by Zeus, again, thanks to Nami. 9
- Was blown back by the force of Pedro’s bomb. 10
- Got blasted in the face by the Thousand Sunny. 11
- Knocked off the ship by Jimbei. 12
- Jinbei blocked combined Prometheus+Napoleon attack. 13
- Blitzed by Brook. 14
- Named Prometheus attack blocked by vet. lvl Reiju. 15
- Base Luffy ran circles around her in Udon. 16
- Had Zeus used against her AGAIN and stolen by Nami. 17
- Two of her Sweet Commanders were beaten by Luffy. 18
- BIG NEWS Morgans got away from her crew and reported the whole thing to the world. 19
- On her VERY FIRST CHAPTER IN WANO, King the Memeslayer knocked her and her team back down the waterfall, and proceeded to go on his merry way. 20
- As a result of that, Big Meme lost her memory and became the Yonko level plot device of the SHs pet. 21
- Was brought to Kaido wrapped in Seastone chains by Queen. 22
- Failed to show Luffy hell (unless you count the Great Cake Chase). 23
- She has the worst arc in the series (fact). 24
- Brook stood vs her in 1 on 1 for some time and wounded Prometheus. 25


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## Gianfi (Sep 10, 2019)

Corax said:


> Messed her around.”
> - The SHs rescued Brook from her in a comedy scene. 1
> - She got tricked by a fake skeleton with seaweed for hair. 2
> - Her Tea Party got ruined. 3
> ...


Man, saying that you are the embodiment of dishonesty is an euphemism. Aniway, let’s see:
1 - She was sleeping, and the SHs were having a hard time saving brook even while asleep, not bad portrayal at all, quite the opposite tbh

2 - comedic scene, OP is full of this, when you’ll start reading the manga you’ll find out. This isn’t more bad portrayal than zoro getting lost, Sanji bleeding, Luffy being hungry etc

3 - Ok, not a bad portrayal for her though. This is like saying Akainu got bad portrayal because Ace got freed by Luffy before his execution. No Yonko fan would stoop so low to use such a weak argument against him

4 - ok? What does she have to with it?

5 - Ok, that was a bomb in a chest. If it’s someone to be blamed it’s her security that didn’t check what was inside. Aniway, not a bad portrayal for her, you don’t use look what’s inside a gift before your birthday party starts, do you?

6 - Oda’s bad writing. Aniway, I could agree with this one. So we are at 1

7 - That’s impressive. Even if it’s not, definitely not bad portrayal at all actually. Dishonesty at its finest.

8 - ok, 2 for you.

9 - Tanked the hit, no damage done. Actually she tanked her own Yonko attack, gg.

10 - She tanked it just fine, being moved is not a bad portrayal. Also, if I recall correctly it was the water of the ocean that moved her

11 - and guess what? Yeah, she tanked it. Attacking someone =\= humiliating someone. I could punch The Rock in the face, would he feel pain? No. Would it be bad portrayal for him? No. Especially if I run away from him. Don’t use dumb reasoning, it just shows you are short on good arguments for your side.

12 - starving and nerfed so much that Pedo never saw her like that in 50 years. Also, considering her size compared to the ship, that’s a good feat for jimbe but nothing extraordinary. Again, she did receive NO damage. Being pushed =\= getting damage

13 - Ok, it happens to other top tiers too, as another post above already proved. Also, nerfed.

14 - Her could was blitzed by brook. Also in Oda’s mind Brook is like the second fastest in the crew, or the fastest. Check his interviews

15 - ok, see point 13

16 - Base Luffy escaped by a lot of people stronger than him, don’t be dishonest

17 - ok, 3.

18 - Man are you on cocaine or what? Now it’s her fault if Kata lost? What now? Kizaru is shit because commodore Full Body got beaten?

19 - Man are you on heroine or what? Now it’s her fault if her subordinates lost Morgan? What now? Aokiji is shit because Magellan let Luffy and other prisoners escape?

20 - Man are you on cocaine... Ok guess you Got it

21 - She got it back lol, and she reached Kaido, which was her goal. gg

22 - while sleeping. Also the fact that Queen still felt the need to use tranquilizers and chain her just shows how much scared of her he is

23 - ...eh??? The reaching here is real

24 - said Corax who is... Oda’s editor? Oda himself? Manga Reader [HASHTAG]#193910[/HASHTAG] who comments the manga in a forum? Ok, if you say so

25 - She was totally not going all-out

26 - you didn’t reach 30

Reactions: Like 4


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## Shiroryu (Sep 10, 2019)

Gianfi said:


> Man, saying that you are the embodiment of dishonesty is an euphemism. Aniway, let’s see:
> 1 - She was sleeping, and the SHs were having a hard time saving brook even while asleep, not bad portrayal at all, quite the opposite tbh
> 
> 2 - comedic scene, OP is full of this, when you’ll start reading the manga you’ll find out. This isn’t more bad portrayal than zoro getting lost, Sanji bleeding, Luffy being hungry etc
> ...


Just ignore him. If he’s citing these weak-ass arguments (almost all of them have nothing to do with power levels ffs) created by a toxic neckbeard/troll that loves to take away 6000 rep from anyone that disagrees with him, then he’s clearly too far down the Big Meme rabbit hole

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Lord Melkor (Sep 10, 2019)

In One Piece you can be significantly weaker than someone and block his attack or fight him for some time (especially if that person is not going all out). We have dozens of examples, including both Admirals and Yonkou. Hey, Usopp put a memorable fight against Luffy while being much weaker than him. These arguments really do not make sense to me.


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## Gohara (Sep 10, 2019)

On average the yonkou have superior defense, speed, physical strength, and haki with comparable if not superior devil fruits.  The yonkou consistently get superior reactions from other characters.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Corax (Sep 11, 2019)

Gianfi said:


> Man, saying that you are the embodiment of dishonesty is an euphemism. Aniway, let’s see:
> 1 - She was sleeping, and the SHs were having a hard time saving brook even while asleep, not bad portrayal at all, quite the opposite tbh
> 
> 2 - comedic scene, OP is full of this, when you’ll start reading the manga you’ll find out. This isn’t more bad portrayal than zoro getting lost, Sanji bleeding, Luffy being hungry etc
> ...


So your point is that "Oda messed up". But this is his manga and he constantly portrays her in a bad,funny and goofy way. Our readers opinion has nothing to do with this,honestly. This is just as he sees and respects her. Like really all this could have happened with Whitebeard?No of course.


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## shisuiuchiha5 (Sep 11, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> No one who wants to be taken seriously thinks MF WB was the most powerful Emperor when he could hardly use haki and was prone to heart attacks.



Whitebeard did use haki when he stabbed aokiji with his bisento,the whitebeard pirates said,"he used haki,is aokiji dead?"

Stop making up shit, whitebeard wad weaker than admirals given the fact that he had to sneak attack an admiral to even land a hit on them and yet lost half his skull.

He could not even cause any kind of serious injury of the admirals, his quakes are weak


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 11, 2019)

quakes arent weak, but they are less lethal than some other fruits, including all 3 C3 logia fruits (magma/meigou, internal freezing, laser piercing)


Akainu and Teach both more or less walked off bloodlusted quakes


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## AmitDS (Sep 13, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> No one who wants to be taken seriously thinks MF WB was the most powerful Emperor when he could hardly use haki and was prone to heart attacks.



And just to add to what you are saying, Prime WB is the one who earned the title of WSM (acc. to the vivre cards/common sense), MF WB is WB who was weakened due to various factors.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Sep 13, 2019)

everything seem OK here


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## GrizzlyClaws (Sep 13, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> *MF WB [...] could hardly use haki* and was prone to heart attacks.



This gets overlooked way too much. If WB could have used his haki properly, it'd be questionable if WB would have ever lost half a head.



Remember, Squardo's successful attack on WB was an important point at the beginning of the war, which falls in line with what we saw later.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 13, 2019)

if Akainu wasnt doing the meigou immediately after getting quaked in the back - it would have taken more

Reactions: Like 1


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## Edogawa (Sep 14, 2019)

Lol at Old WB not being able to use Haki properly. Old WB >>> the other Yonkos like Oda said. Oda's words >>> fan headcanon

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Sep 14, 2019)

Edogawa said:


> Old WB >>> the other Yonkos like Oda said



Oda don't like to eat crap and talk bullshit ... so when did he ever said this crap?

Reactions: Like 2


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## Unicornsilovethem (Sep 14, 2019)

Edogawa said:


> Old WB >>> the other Yonkos like Oda said.


He didn't.


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## Edogawa (Sep 14, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Oda don't like to eat crap and talk bullshit ... so when did he ever said this crap?



King of the sea (Garp), World Strongest Man (in his introduction and by Sengoku), Strongest Pirate (Buggy), can destroy the world (Sengoku), *even *Whitebeard (Big Mom).

If you actually read the manga instead of theorizing like every One Piece fan does, you would know Oda always put WB above the other Yonkos.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 14, 2019)

Edogawa said:


> King of the sea (Garp), World Strongest Man (in his introduction and by Sengoku), Strongest Pirate (Buggy), can destroy the world (Sengoku), *even *Whitebeard (Big Mom).
> 
> If you actually read the manga instead of theorizing like every One Piece fan does, you would know Oda always put WB above the other Yonkos.




King is not a matter of power ... Imu is the King of the world and he can be a fodder
he was World strongest man 25 years ago when he got the title and the title was with him until he died , Old sick beard had the title of WSM and he wasn't able to beat any of 3 logia admirals , having a title during your Prime have a meaning
Big Mom was talking about 10 years ago

all we can be sure is Prime Beard > Yonko

Old Beard > Yonko is fan fiction and never said by Oda 
Old Beard >>> Yonko is a new level of bullshit

Reactions: Like 2


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## Edogawa (Sep 14, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> King is not a matter of power ... Imu is the King of the world and he can be a fodder
> he was World strongest man 25 years ago when he got the title and the title was with him until he died , Old sick beard had the title of WSM and he wasn't able to beat any of 3 logia admirals , having a title during your Prime have a meaning
> Big Mom was talking about 10 years ago
> all we can be sure is Prime Beard > Yonko
> ...



And here we go with the headcanon assumptions as usual. It's what ruins One Piece debates. 

Whitebeard's titles all apply to him in his lifetime until he died, meaning he's >>>> the Yonkos even in his old age. If his titles were only in his prime like you headcanon fanboys think, Oda would have said his titles using words of past tense and not present tense. It would have looked like this:

-''_Prime Whitebeard was the strongest man 25 years ago'_'. Not: _Edward Newgate, Whitebeard, the Strongest Man in the World _(present tense).

-''_I would have beaten Kaido, Shanks and even Prime Whitebeard 10 years ago_''. 

And Garp referring to WB as ''king of the sea'' is a name of power, you idiot.

Your headcanon assumptions don't interest one bit. WB is portrayed, hyped, shown to be stronger than the Yonkos and Shanks. And if you don't like it then keep crying.

Reactions: Like 4


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## gogcho (Sep 14, 2019)

Is it weird to think that Primebeard was stronger than the other Yonkos and once age caught up with him he fell down to their level?
In other words MFBeard was on par with them? Just asking. I mean, he was still introduced as the WSM even in his old age, and he still had the strongest paramecia in the world, and unlike haki DF powers do not deteriorate with age.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Tenma (Sep 14, 2019)

I'm not sure if WB was WSM when he arrived at Marineford, though he had certainly deteriorated significantly, even moreso after Squardo stabbed him. Either way, that definitely flew out of the window the moment he had a heart attack.

Like, it's a fucking heart attack

Reactions: Like 1


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## Geralt-Singh (Sep 14, 2019)

MF WB wasn't the strongest, but still had the highest DC with top tier endurance and physical strength, I'd put him in the top 5

Pre MF WB was definitely the strongest though

Reactions: Like 2


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## Unicornsilovethem (Sep 14, 2019)

Edogawa said:


> King of the sea (Garp), World Strongest Man (in his introduction and by Sengoku), Strongest Pirate (Buggy), can destroy the world (Sengoku), *even *Whitebeard (Big Mom).


None of these quotes even hint at ">>>".

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Sep 14, 2019)

Edogawa said:


> And here we go with the headcanon assumptions as usual. It's what ruins One Piece debates.
> 
> Whitebeard's titles all apply to him in his lifetime until he died, meaning he's >>>> the Yonkos even in his old age. If his titles were only in his prime like you headcanon fanboys think, Oda would have said his titles using words of past tense and not present tense. It would have looked like this:
> 
> ...



lol ...

Prime Beard took the title of WSM
Old Sick just carried that title since no one is fool enough to go to a war with a Yonko for a fucking title ... 

MF was WSM by title ... yet weaker than 3 admirals as a fact

for some one who like to read manga , go see it there yourself

and this alone is a proof of him no longer being WSM

even Crocodile who fought Prime beard call MF WB a weakling compere to his past

Whitebeard himself say : I can't be strongest forever

and me saying that again is head canon

I have no time to talk about some thing clear

go wank yourself with Old Beard >>> Yonko while other do the grown up talk


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## Gianfi (Sep 14, 2019)

Sakazuki-Singh said:


> MF WB wasn't the strongest, but still had the highest DC with top tier endurance and physical strength, I'd put him in the top 5
> 
> Pre MF WB was definitely the strongest though


This, PrimeBeard was definitely the strongest. Old WB before MF was maybe still the strongest, even though he was already receiving medical treatment when Shanks visited him. MF WB is obviously not the strongest, especially after Squardo stabbed him and he got a heart attack. He was close to his death aniway so it’s not far fetched to think he got weaker than his other Yonko


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## Red Admiral (Sep 14, 2019)

Unicornsilovethem said:


> None of these quotes even hint at ">>>".



let him disagree with every one ... we don't need to prove him shit , everything is clear but there is always one of this people



Gianfi said:


> This, PrimeBeard was definitely the strongest. Old WB before MF was maybe still the strongest, even though he was already receiving medical treatment when Shanks visited him. MF WB is obviously not the strongest, especially after Squardo stabbed him and he got a heart attack. He was close to his death aniway so it’s not far fetched to think he got weaker than his other Yonko



Roger = Whitebeard > Yonko > MF WB

now I don't know if Prime Beard can win Vs Yonko in a high diff or a extreme diff ...

but I do know

the gap of Prime Beard and Yonko is smaller than gap of Yonko and MF WB who was WSM by title


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## gogcho (Sep 14, 2019)

The general consensus seems to be that Primebeard > everyone except Roger. Oldbeard = the other Yonkos, MFBeard the weakest Yonko. I'm wondering why everyone thinks that MFBeard was the weakest Yonko. His introduction panel read WSM when Rockstar was sent to negotiate with him, a few months later the war of the summit took place. Did he really fall down that much in strength during these few months?


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## RossellaFiamingo (Sep 14, 2019)

If you need an IV, you’re not the world strongest man. Old and Sick whitebeard loses to all current Yonko at High Diff. He would get taken to extreme diff by Admirals and lose.


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## AmitDS (Sep 14, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> King is not a matter of power ... Imu is the King of the world and he can be a fodder
> *he was World strongest man 25 years ago when he got the title* and the title was with him until he died , Old sick beard had the title of WSM and he wasn't able to beat any of 3 logia admirals , having a title during your Prime have a meaning
> Big Mom was talking about 10 years ago
> all we can be sure is Prime Beard > Yonko
> ...



Thank you. Why do people forget this/pretend to forget this? Honestly it seems that they conveniently use the 'his introduction when he was old said WSM' excuse to push the false Admiral > Yonko rhetoric.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Steven (Sep 15, 2019)

WB was undefeated until he died.

Kaido got 100 of L's

Reactions: Like 2


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## Dellinger (Sep 15, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> WB was undefeated until he died.
> 
> Kaido got 100 of L's



Luffy has already lost 50 times, what's your point ?


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## Steven (Sep 15, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> Luffy has already lost 50 times, what's your point ?


What has the MC to do with the topic?


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## Red Admiral (Sep 15, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> What has the MC to do with the topic?


@Acnologia I usually don't disagree with you when you hype Whitebeard since I enjoy the hype

but

Kaido's greatest hype atm is the very same fact he fought Whitebeard , Shanks , Big Mom and Marine while being ALONE

and he make it alive and with no visible scar

do you remember what happened to Whitebeard when he faced Marine while having an army at his back?

​


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## Red Admiral (Sep 15, 2019)

Sakazuki-Singh said:


> MF WB wasn't the strongest, but still had the highest DC with top tier endurance and physical strength, I'd put him in the top 5
> 
> Pre MF WB was definitely the strongest though



Top 5 can be arguable ... he might have been ... I don't think so , more like top 10 ... but still ...

Whitebeard was the devil and the monster , the strongest man in the world , the man with power to destroy the world

*even hearing his statement make me smile  
*
but truth is MF was , Old , sick and let himself get out of shape and injured before start his action ...

so clearly he wasn't anything but a shadow of his past and yet with mad power

saying he was definitely the strongest while still being on *age 70* is some thing I assume many people would agree since they consider Kings a whole tier above Yonko

but truth is ... we just don't know ... but for now both Big mom and Kaido been more promising than MF WB ... and I don't think Oda have any plan to stop the hype

Kaido and Big Mom showed us nothing but a mere shine of their true power and yet they did what no top tier done before them in terms of feat

I assume when people get to see the all out power of this two monsters thing change 

and I do believe Oda still would rise the bar with Shanks and Teach


so saying Old Beard (who is 32 years away from pick of his Prime) is still the strongest and above all this monsters ... at least there is nothing definite about it


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## Steven (Sep 15, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> @Acnologia I usually don't disagree with you when you hype Whitebeard since I enjoy the hype
> 
> but
> 
> ...


MF-WB was old and sick.His Haki was non-exist.And unlike Kaido or BM,he was just a human ergo he cant block bullets/swords or whatever without CoA,but he was a stamina monster.

I agree that NORMAL MF-WB was not anymore the strongest,but a bloodlusted WB was still the Nr.1.But i doubt he would take down one of the other yonkous in this time

But his speed,dura and Haki was...nothing special

Reactions: Like 1


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## MO (Sep 15, 2019)

just here to remind y'all big mom> anyone in the marines.


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## RossellaFiamingo (Sep 15, 2019)

MO said:


> just here to remind y'all big mom> anyone in the marines.


 

They know!


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## xmysticgohanx (Sep 16, 2019)

MF WB was the strongest until sometime before the Squardo stab.


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## Corax (Sep 16, 2019)

By feats,hype and portrayal WB was still the strongest. His title was in present tense: WSM, but not former WSM. And even if we indirectly compare him to Kaido one has lifetime scar from Roger's subordinate Oden,another has lifetime scar from Roger himself.  Still a better portrayal. Feats are incomparable. WB DC is so great that he doesn't even need anything to beat his opponent unless it is a logia,and even in this case his haki is strong enough to kill an admiral (Aokiji used FS to barely dodge his Gura bisento thrust).


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## Red Admiral (Sep 16, 2019)

Corax said:


> By feats,hype and portrayal WB was still the strongest. His title was in present tense: WSM, but not former WSM. And even if we indirectly compare him to Kaido one has lifetime scar from Roger's subordinate Oden,another has lifetime scar from Roger himself.  Still a better portrayal. Feats are incomparable. WB DC is so great that he doesn't even need anything to beat his opponent unless it is a logia,and even in this case his haki is strong enough to kill an admiral (Aokiji used FS to barely dodge his Gura bisento thrust).



not really 

Kaido , Big Mom and Akainu surpassed him in feat already as a fact ...


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## Corax (Sep 16, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> not really
> 
> Kaido , Big Mom and Akainu surpassed him in feat already as a fact ...


How?BM I don't even want to start. Kaido?He defeated someone around FM lvl. but on the other hand he got a lifetime scar from someone barely above FM lvl. and Roger's subordinate. Scar from Roger for WB is fine,scar from Oden a huge no no.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 16, 2019)

Corax said:


> How?BM I don't even want to start. Kaido?He defeated someone around FM lvl. but on the other hand he got a lifetime scar from someone barely above FM lvl. and Roger's subordinate. Scar from Roger for WB is fine,scar from Oden a huge no no.



Big Mom feats are out of this world , she and Kaido are only things in one piece who don't even need a DF or Haki to be top tier

Kaido beat Luffy with a mere attack he wasn't even all out and didn't even wanted to kill Luffy

while Whitebeard's strongest attack that we ever get to see wasn't even enough for a mere Vice Admiral ... the same people high tier and some times mid tiers one shot


*Kaido might have got a scar form Oden ... but he didn't get 200 scars from Marine fodders
*
Oden power level is unclear and the full power and capability of Enma too


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## Corax (Sep 16, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Big Mom feats are out of this world , she and Kaido are only things in one piece who don't even need a DF or Haki to be top tier
> 
> Kaido beat Luffy with a mere attack he wasn't even all out and didn't even wanted to kill Luffy
> 
> ...


Oden is far below Roger all we need to know. So portrayal wise WB is only allowed to seriously fight big guys like Akainu (one of MC rivals) and Roger (PK himself),not some underlings. And I guarantee you that both Roger/Akainu/WB would easily block 8-triggrams without any damage if Oda had to really draw Kaido vs  WB/Roger/Akainu.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Sep 16, 2019)

Corax said:


> Oden is far below Roger all we need to know. So portrayal wise WB is only allowed to seriously fight big guys like Akainu (one of MC rivals) and Roger (PK himself),not some underlings. And I guarantee you that both Roger/Akainu/WB would easily block 8-triggrams without any damage if Oda had to really draw Kaido vs  WB/Roger/Akainu.



we know nothing of Oden power level ... so for all we know have to real meaning

getting a scar from a most likely top tier with a legendary sword >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get a scar from fodders

what is the point of your argument?


and I don't gonna waste my time over a argument that is based on YOUR fan fiction
you should not do the same when I used fan fiction ... and I do some times ... not here


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## Corax (Sep 16, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> we know nothing of Oden power level ... so for all we know have to real meaning
> 
> getting a scar from a most likely top tier with a legendary sword >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get a scar from fodders
> 
> ...


WB got all that wounds because it was a war and he fought top tiers at the same time. It is impossible to think that Oda would even draw WB in 1 on 1 vs Oden,let alone allowing Oden to wound him in 1 on 1 without distractions. Oden is just a 1 arc Zoro hypemeter at best. His plot relevance is close to 0.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 16, 2019)

Corax said:


> WB got all that wounds because it was a war and he fought top tiers at the same time. It is impossible to think that Oda would even draw WB in 1 on 1 vs Oden,let alone allowing Oden to wound him in 1 on 1 without distractions. Oden is just a 1 arc Zoro hypemeter at best. His plot relevance is close to 0.



let assume Kaido was in Marine Ford and didn't even move ... would any Marine Fodder could give him a scar

Dadan make Garp bleed
Gear 2 make Garp bleed
Roger die by end of 2 fodder
Whitebeard take 300 scar from fodder

while Kaido wants to die and no one could kill him

but he is to blame cause a top tier gave him a scar with a legendary sword


*dude ... what is your standards !!!!!!!!!!!!*


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## Corax (Sep 16, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> let assume Kaido was in Marine Ford and didn't even move ... would any Marine Fodder could give him a scar
> 
> Dadan make Garp bleed
> Gear 2 make Garp bleed
> ...


Oden gave him a scar in a fair fight. This would've never happened in this manga with WB (very important character). I would expect 2-3 shot treatment for someone as irrelevant as Oden. Roger is MVP,Akainu is also EOS material MVP.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 16, 2019)

Corax said:


> Oden gave him a scar in a fair fight. This would've never happened in this manga with WB (very important character). I would expect 2-3 shot treatment for someone as irrelevant as Oden. Roger is MVP,Akainu is also EOS material MVP.



you don understand that Oden is more relevant for the story than Whitebeard ... right?
all Whitebeard did for plot was giving Teach a throne in terms of plot

Whitebeard is far far far far irrelevant to big picture plot compere to Roger ... and yet he is equal to him in power

so ... don't try to make an argument here about some thing you don't know base on some thing you can't know and refer it to some thing that is not even a real argument  

putting this aside


Oden might or might not could gave a scar to PRIME BEARD ... MAYBE!!! and there is NO WAY to be SURE

that's just a claim

but Prime Beard> Kaido... why waste time


but saying Oden can't gave a scar to Whitebeard and get 3 shot ... is just a sad fan fiction ...

this is what you think ... the end ... so it's not a argument and don't have a value


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## Turrin (Sep 16, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Top 5 can be arguable ... he might have been ... I don't think so , more like top 10 ... but still ...
> 
> Whitebeard was the devil and the monster , the strongest man in the world , the man with power to destroy the world
> 
> ...


WB was still the strongest he simply couldn’t use his full power because Ace was on Marine Ford; so he couldn’t use world ending power without damaging Ace. When BB comes back and he shows Gura awakening world ending power there won’t be any doubt that WB was the strongest


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## Red Admiral (Sep 16, 2019)

Turrin said:


> WB was still the strongest he simply couldn’t use his full power because Ace was on Marine Ford; so he couldn’t use world ending power without damaging Ace. When BB comes back and he shows Gura awakening world ending power there won’t be any doubt that WB was the strongest



Fact : Whitebeard love all of his sons equally
Logic : if he had the power to destroy the world he should never used it cause ... it would kill most of his son
Logic : if he never used his power how people gave him that? just took his word as fact?

Fact : Akainu , Kuzan and Kizaru was holding back for very same reason




holding back BIG TIMES


if Whitebeard himself said he can't always be strongest 

I believe him


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## Turrin (Sep 16, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Fact : Whitebeard love all of his sons equally
> Logic : if he had the power to destroy the world he should never used it cause ... it would kill most of his son
> Logic : if he never used his power how people gave him that? just took his word as fact?
> 
> ...


1. True he probably never was willing to use close to his full power due to not wanting to endanger the future for his Sons. But that doesn’t mean he couldn’t do it

2. Ether WB attempted it and was stopped by someone before like Roger or a past Gura used utilized it causing a calamity in the past; or WB caused a huge calamity in the past. That’s how they would know about it

3. Sure they were holding back too, but it’s not to the same extent; none of them even have close to the hype of offense able to destroy the world

4. Can’t always be the strongest doesn’t mean he wasn’t. No one else has shown anywhere close to world ending power in the present. But Roger or Rocks or EoS BB &/or EoS Luffy will achieve it as well


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## Red Admiral (Sep 16, 2019)

Turrin said:


> 1. True he probably never was willing to use close to his full power due to not wanting to endanger the future for his Sons. But that doesn’t mean he couldn’t do it
> 
> 2. Ether WB attempted it and was stopped by someone before like Roger or a past Gura used utilized it causing a calamity in the past; or WB caused a huge calamity in the past. That’s how they would know about it
> 
> ...



dear mate ... Whitebeard DF have massive area effect but admirals have better DF is terms of one Vs one

that's logical by feats and what Oda said himself 

Whitebeard DF is so hyped ... but in reality Oda himself admit Gura Gura is just EQUAL to Logia 

so if I have to bet among Magma and Gura Gura ... I would go with Magma 


Whitebeard did so many things to island and building ... but he gave to real damage to Akainu when he was at most rage 

while Akainu is one who killed WB in reality


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## Corax (Sep 16, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> dear mate ... Whitebeard DF have massive area effect but admirals have better DF is terms of one Vs one
> 
> that's logical by feats and what Oda said himself
> 
> ...


This isn't true. WB didn't use Gura bisento thrust vs Akainu,attack that would have pierced him and exploded from inside. Aokiji dodged it for a reason. Gura is actually super lethal if explodes from inside,it turns organs into mash.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 16, 2019)

Corax said:


> This isn't true. WB didn't use Gura bisento thrust vs Akainu,attack that would have pierced him and exploded from inside. Aokiji dodged it for a reason. Gura is actually super lethal if explodes from inside,it turns organs into mash.



dude what is not true ?
that Gura Gura is equal to a Logia?
so Oda is a liar?
first Whitebeard and now Oda?
the amount of fan fiction is going wild man ...

Kuzan dodge it cause what kind of a fool let himself get attacked by Whitebeard??
it don't mean you dodge to save your life ... it means you dodge cause you have brain


for god sake make an argument that can be backed up with some thing

you thinking some thing would happen don't means it would happen

it's cool stuff for talking about theories for sure ... not this but ... fan fiction in general


like I assume the reason shanks lost his arm is cause he saw YEARS in to the future and saw Luffy as the person who find one piece so "he made a bet on the new era"


but I would never use such thing in a power level base argument cause it's thought and nothing more


and most of your posts is like this ... you just say what is in your mind

cool ... but don't push other people to an argument against your thoughts ... it's not a real argument


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## Turrin (Sep 16, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> dear mate ... Whitebeard DF have massive area effect but admirals have better DF is terms of one Vs one
> 
> that's logical by feats and what Oda said himself
> 
> ...


What has Oda said himself; because from where I’m standing if the Admirals DF are Island Level DC, while WB is close too planetary (or at least continental, if you think he accomplishes World Ending in multiple attacks) there is no way they are better 1V1.

I don’t disagree that Akainu is the one who did fatal damage to WB, but the reality is if WB hit Akainu with his full power; Akainu would have been decimated before he even had landed his blow on WB.


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## Corax (Sep 16, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> dude what is not true ?
> that Gura Gura is equal to a Logia?
> so Oda is a liar?
> first Whitebeard and now Oda?
> ...


It isn't a theory. Gura explodes from inside target dies. Even WB's crew mates nearby said: now Aokiji is dead. They know how deadly are his attacks. Explosion from inside means death for 99% OP characters.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 16, 2019)

Corax said:


> It isn't a theory. Gura explodes from inside target dies. Even WB's crew mates nearby said: now Aokiji is dead. They know how deadly are his attacks. Explosion from inside means death for 99% OP characters.


explodes from inside is a joke ... people assumed he is dead cause there was a blade to his chest ... 

and they didn't even said cause of DF ... they said " did old man stab him with Haki"

*so the major factor of that attack was Haki and not WB's DF *


p.s

sure , WB is strongest if his enemy don't fight back and don't dodge


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## Red Admiral (Sep 16, 2019)

Turrin said:


> What has Oda said himself; because from where I’m standing if the Admirals DF are Island Level DC, while WB is close too planetary (or at least continental, if you think he accomplishes World Ending in multiple attacks) there is no way they are better 1V1.
> 
> I don’t disagree that Akainu is the one who did fatal damage to WB, but the reality is if WB hit Akainu with his full power; Akainu would have been decimated before he even had landed his blow on WB.



Oda said

D: Hello, Oda-sensei! I have a question. Is Whitebeard, Edward Newgate, a Logia or a Paramecia? I personally think he's Logia, since he took Aokiji's attack without turning to ice, but...? P.N. NY

*O: I guess that's difficult. The answer is Paramecia. "Gura Gura no Mi" is said to be the most powerful of the many paramecia fruits. It's easy to think that he's an "Earthquake Human" and must be Logia, but if that was so, he'd have to become an earthquake himself. Whitebeard creates earthquakes, in other words he's a "Vibration Human". That means he's a Paramecia who isn't any weaker than the Logias.*

- SBS 58

I fear where we stand don't matter

Gura Gura ~< Logia 


the problem is you consider the power of a DF in merely how much it can destroy

and it's bad ... bad ... bad factor

Law's and sugar's DF are MUCH MUCH MUCH stronger than Gura Gura in one Vs one ... *in RIGHT HAND like if Garp had them* ... they can one shot a top tier like a joke ... and Time DF might be even above that and yet none of them are much destructive


and

there is NO REAL fact about Gura Gura can destroy the world ...
Shiki DF logically have a better chance to be planetary than Gura Gura
and yet he got his ass beat by Garp and Sengoku


*don't consider ONE FACTOR of power as over all power *


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## Turrin (Sep 16, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Oda said
> 
> D: Hello, Oda-sensei! I have a question. Is Whitebeard, Edward Newgate, a Logia or a Paramecia? I personally think he's Logia, since he took Aokiji's attack without turning to ice, but...? P.N. NY
> 
> ...


All Oda says there is he isn’t weaker then a Logia; not that he is only equal to one. If you believe the Gura Fruit is only equal to any Logia like Monet Snow Fruit; that’s just false

Considering other factors of major DF are fine but when the raw power gap is Planetary vs Island level, well that doesn’t matter as the gap is so large. And that’s what we’re talking about here


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## Red Admiral (Sep 16, 2019)

Turrin said:


> All Oda says there is he isn’t weaker then a Logia; not that he is only equal to one. If you believe the Gura Fruit is only equal to any Logia like Monet Snow Fruit; that’s just false
> 
> Considering other factors of major DF are fine but when the raw power gap is Planetary vs Island level, well that doesn’t matter as the gap is so large. And that’s what we’re talking about here



mate ... Logia is strongest type of DF ... this is a known manga fact and and Oda is saying the same thing
even smoke and snow can be THAT strong ... but they have shitty users ... the skill of owner matter ...


Planetary vs Island level is a false argument too ... how many times should I say
Whitebeard can destroy the world ... but how is that gonna hurt Kizan? or Kaido ?
the amonut you can desory don't give you the victory
Shiki destructive power should be above Whitebeard and he lost easily ... 2 time


*by your logic any one who have DF should be the strongest*


while Roger and Garp are in same level with no DF what so ever ...


MF Whitebeard was no longer in same level of Haki
MF Whitebeard was no longer same man in terms of fighting skill

he had almost same level of DF ... but his DF could not break through any admiral for lack of Haki ... that's just fact


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## Turrin (Sep 16, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> mate ... Logia is strongest type of DF ... this is a known manga fact and and Oda is saying the same thing
> even smoke and snow can be THAT strong ... but they have shitty users ... the skill of owner matter ...
> 
> 
> ...



1. Strongest type means on average; not that any Logia is >= strongest Paramecia 

2.  I don’t think you understand that if Gura can destroy the world it’s offensive might is immensely greater then what we saw in MF; so if Akainu is getting heavily damaged by WB suppressed attacks, imagine if he took a World ending blow he’d be obliterated

3. No it’s not anyone with any DF it’s someone with the Gura Fruit the strongest Parmecia DF.

And of course offensive might isn’t everything, but in this case we can easily tell WB who wasn’t holding back could demolish Marine Ford; because he wasn’t loosing out to the admirals in strength or speed


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## Red Admiral (Sep 16, 2019)

Turrin said:


> 1. Strongest type means on average; not that any Logia is >= strongest Paramecia
> 
> 2.  I don’t think you understand that if Gura can destroy the world it’s offensive might is immensely greater then what we saw in MF; so if Akainu is getting heavily damaged by WB suppressed attacks, imagine if he took a World ending blow he’d be obliterated
> 
> ...



1- no where stated by any one canon
2- and I don't think you understand , DC is not every thing ... MF was god of DC and get scar from fodders anyway
3- what?


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## Turrin (Sep 16, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> 1- no where stated by any one canon
> 2- and I don't think you understand , DC is not every thing ... MF was god of DC and get scar from fodders anyway
> 3- what?



1. It doesn’t matter I’m just saying that not every Logia is >= any Zoan or Paramecia 

2. Not being everything and not being enough in this scenario are 2 different things. WB landed his blows on the Admirals x that DC to planetary level and he decimates them 

3. Not sure why your confused


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## Shiroryu (Sep 16, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> mate ... Logia is strongest type of DF ... this is a known manga fact and and Oda is saying the same thing
> even smoke and snow can be THAT strong ... but they have shitty users ... the skill of owner matter ...
> 
> 
> ...


I’d argue that Mythical Zoans are stronger

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Red Admiral (Sep 16, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> I’d argue that Mythical Zoans are stronger


hmmm ... maybe for another time ... but I like so see your argument 


even I myself think Law and sugar and time are top 3 in verse by FAR FAR FAR BIG GAP

but what can we do? 

this is Oda story 



D: Yo, Oda-sensei! I have a question about logia-type devil fruits. In chapter 280, Enel says that "Paramecia have to retain their original form..." Does that mean people like Crocodile, Ace, or Smoker, who can freely morph their physical bodies have logia-type devil fruits? If you don't answer me, I won't let you go to the toilet! You'll have to poop outside!

-P.N. Hilarious Joke-


*The logia-type, which allows its user to freely change his original physical form, definitely stands out on a whole other level compared to other devil fruits.*


- SBS 30


let's read it again

*The logia-type, which allows its user to freely change his original physical form, definitely stands out on a whole other level compared to other devil fruits.*
*
*
key words 


*definitely*
*whole other level *

Reactions: Like 1


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## Corax (Sep 17, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> explodes from inside is a joke ... people assumed he is dead cause there was a blade to his chest ...
> 
> and they didn't even said cause of DF ... they said " did old man stab him with Haki"
> 
> ...


Well no. For example Mihawk or Zoro pierces BM or someone,she takes it more or less fine since she is a half giant. WB pierces her and channels Gura through his bisento and she dies because inner quake destroys her organs. Gura+bisento is a super lethal combo.


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## Turrin (Sep 17, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> hmmm ... maybe for another time ... but I like so see your argument
> 
> 
> even I myself think Law and sugar and time are top 3 in verse by FAR FAR FAR BIG GAP
> ...


Oda is talking on average Logia class fruit are stronger; not that they all are. Again if you seriously arguing  Monet Snow Logia or Caribou swamp Logia are above Kaidou Mythical Dragon Zoan, Marco Phoenix Zoan, or WB Gura fruit you are ether being intellectually dishonest as you know that’s not Oda intent or you are really fundamentally  misguided


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## Quipchaque (Sep 17, 2019)

Kaido beats Akainu extreme diff
Shanks beats Aokiji extreme diff
Blackbeard beats Fujitora mid diff
Big Mom beats Kizaru mid diff.


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## Zero (Sep 17, 2019)

Yonko team Mid Diff
The Admirals would get incredibly overwhelmed with all of them at once and just get destroyed.
You could also put it this way.
 Every Admiral and Yonko battle 1v1 against each other and the Yonko would be the clear winner each battle.
For Example...
Kizaru vs Big Mom (Kizaru Lose)
Akainu vs Kaidou (Akainu Lose)
Former Admiral Kuzan Vs Black Beard (Kuzan Lose)
and so on


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## Redline (Sep 17, 2019)

Easy..
Eventually admirals would get they're ass kicked!


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## Mercurial (Sep 18, 2019)

Admirals = Yonko

Boh are the pinnacle of OP largest factions, marines and pirates. So are they referred in statements about the most difficult opponents that the future Pirate King has to percome in order to reach Raftel.

 Greatest OP world post skip events where battle between two admirals for the fleet admiral spot and the battle between two crews to have their respective captain as a Yonko.

Both Yonko and admirals as top tiers have absolutely superiority against high tiers as YC.

Whitebeard wasnt the world's strongest man anymore and he would have died against Akainu (even powered up with the typical shonen tage mode and even taking advantage a free cheap shot from behind) who instead wasn't really much damaged by his rage powered hits as he could still wreak havoc on the Battlefield and was even willing to fight Shanks pirates later. And Kizaru and especially Aokiji don't fall short from Akainu, not by a much relevant gap.

Tier 1 

Eos Teach
WSM Whitebeard
Post skip Akainu
Shanks

Tier 2

Kaido
Pre skip Akainu
Aokiji
Kizaru

Tier 3 

Current Teach
Fujitora
Ryugyoku
MF Whitebeard
Big Mom​

Reactions: Like 2


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## Turrin (Sep 18, 2019)

Raikiri19 said:


> Admirals = Yonko
> 
> Boh are the pinnacle of OP largest factions, marines and pirates. So are they referred in statements about the most difficult opponents that the future Pirate King has to percome in order to reach Raftel.
> 
> ...


WB would have destroyed Akainu if he used his full world ending power. He couldn’t because it would endanger Ace. That’s what people don’t understand WB was the WSM due to the Gura crazy raw power (probably in its awakened form) that is planetary in scale; but he couldn’t use that at MF.


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## Zero (Sep 18, 2019)

Turrin said:


> WB would have destroyed Akainu if he used his full world ending power. He couldn’t because it would endanger Ace. That’s what people don’t understand WB was the WSM due to the Gura crazy raw power (probably in its awakened form) that is planetary in scale; but he couldn’t use that at MF.


I thought the whole "Whitebeard has the power to destroy this very world" was more of just an exaggeration/statement.


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## Sherlōck (Sep 18, 2019)

WB is more of a life wiper than world destroyer. He doesn't have the power to literally destroy the planet.


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## Turrin (Sep 18, 2019)

FlyingBison said:


> I thought the whole "Whitebeard has the power to destroy this very world" was more of just an exaggeration/statement.


See no reason why Sengoku the strategist would be wrong or exaggerate and it’s even credited in the vivre card as the main reason for his WSM title



Sherlōck said:


> WB is more of a life wiper than world destroyer. He doesn't have the power to literally destroy the planet.


Proof. Sengoku and the Vivre Card says he does


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## Sherlōck (Sep 18, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Proof. Sengoku and the Vivre Card says he does



This wasn't WB's first rodeo. He has been dubbed WSM for 40 years now. If he could literally destroy the world then it wouldn't be standing here now.


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## Zero (Sep 18, 2019)

I still don't take that statement seriously. If that was true and he has the power to destroy the world where that would make him  "Planetary." I don't see why he couldn't  have destroyed everyone at Marineford with ease and saved Ace.
No one in One Piece verse is planetary.


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## xmysticgohanx (Sep 18, 2019)

FlyingBison said:


> I still don't take that statement seriously. If that was true and he has the power to destroy the world where that would make him  "Planetary." I don't see why he couldn't  have destroyed everyone at Marineford with ease and saved Ace.
> No one in One Piece verse is planetary.


 this is bad logic. If WB is planetary, that just means the rest of the top tiers are also planetary


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## Zero (Sep 18, 2019)

True.  But that's Clown mentality to think anyone's planetary in op verse to begin with.


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## Mercurial (Sep 18, 2019)

Turrin said:


> WB would have destroyed Akainu if he used his full world ending power. He couldn’t because it would endanger Ace. That’s what people don’t understand WB was the WSM due to the Gura crazy raw power (probably in its awakened form) that is planetary in scale; but he couldn’t use that at MF.


This is funny when you think that the 2nd time that Whitebeard fought Akainu, Ace was already dead, so no reason to restrain himself. And that granted Whitebeard the typical shonen rage power up/berserk mode. Which made him destroy most of the area, but didn't damage Akainu as he wasn't even bendaged at the end of the war, not to mention that he still stomped people on the battlefield and was ready and willing to fight Shanks pirates. Whitebeard was honestly far more damaged with a single hit than the damage he inflicted with two rage powered hits (one with a free shot from behind).

Also I don't take the statement literally, Whitebeard with Gura Gura and later Blackbeard showed destruction of some kms (at best) wide area. Jumping from that to the whole world in a single shot seems to much lol. It probably referred to a sum of attacks. Not to mention that more destruction does not necessarily mean more power to put down someone.


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## Turrin (Sep 18, 2019)

Sherlōck said:


> This wasn't WB's first rodeo. He has been dubbed WSM for 40 years now. If he could literally destroy the world then it wouldn't be standing here now.


That’s such a poor argument. Goku can destroy the world all the way back in the Saiyan Arc but doesn’t do it; it’s called restrain.  WB restrains the out out of his power depending on the situation; that’s why it’s so dangerous that Black Beard a madman now has the Gura Fruit



Raikiri19 said:


> This is funny when you think that the 2nd time that Whitebeard fought Akainu, Ace was already dead, so no reason to restrain himself. And that granted Whitebeard the typical shonen rage power up/berserk mode. Which made him destroy most of the area, but didn't damage Akainu as he wasn't even bendaged at the end of the war, not to mention that he still stomped people on the battlefield and was ready and willing to fight Shanks pirates. Whitebeard was honestly far more damaged with a single hit than the damage he inflicted with two rage powered hits (one with a free shot from behind).


At that time his other Sons were also on Marine Ford.



Raikiri19 said:


> Also I don't take the statement literally, Whitebeard with Gura Gura and later Blackbeard showed destruction of some kms (at best) wide area. Jumping from that to the whole world in a single shot seems to much lol. It probably referred to a sum of attacks. Not to mention that more destruction does not necessarily mean more power to put down someone.


Because they were restrain themselves.

BB crew tells him to go easy or they will loose their footing (he will destroy MF). BB then mentions how he’s having a hard time controlling the Gura fruit, which tells us that the uses are restrain themselves to not goo too far with the power of the fruit:

Whether it’s a single shot or it take a few IDK, but the idea is simply that Gura fruit possess far more power then what we saw at Marine Ford and must be multi continental in a single strike at a minimum

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## Sherlōck (Sep 19, 2019)

Turrin said:


> That’s such a poor argument. Goku can destroy the world all the way back in the Saiyan Arc but doesn’t do it; it’s called restrain.  WB restrains the out out of his power depending on the situation; that’s why it’s so dangerous that Black Beard a madman now has the Gura Fruit



In case of DM we have other characters with planetary destruction portrayal to judge from. Thus we can power scale. If someone shouted Goku is planet level yet there was no feat to corroborate it then Goku as planet level wouldn't be accepted as well. 

This isn't the case for WB. He is hyped as someone who can destroy the world but never managed to? Not when he was fighting Roger or other top tiers? All this time he is just restraining himself? And Roger can at least fight on par with him so does that mean he can destroy the world too?

Nope. WB is a life wiper. Create earthquake, send Tsunami etc to wipe out civilization etc. But he can't literally destroy the world.


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## Dark Knight (Sep 19, 2019)

If admirals=yonkou, do people realize just how fucking op the marines would be? If you include garp,sengoku kong, that's potentially 7 yonkou class fighters working together. Why the hell would they even need the shichibukai or vegapunk creations to maintain the balance?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 19, 2019)

FlyingBison said:


> I still don't take that statement seriously. If that was true and he has the power to destroy the world where that would make him  "Planetary." I don't see why he couldn't  have destroyed everyone at Marineford with ease and saved Ace.
> No one in One Piece verse is planetary.


full truth

Reactions: Like 1


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## Turrin (Sep 19, 2019)

Sherlōck said:


> In case of DM we have other characters with planetary destruction portrayal to judge from. Thus we can power scale. If someone shouted Goku is planet level yet there was no feat to corroborate it then Goku as planet level wouldn't be accepted as well.
> 
> This isn't the case for WB. He is hyped as someone who can destroy the world but never managed to? Not when he was fighting Roger or other top tiers? All this time he is just restraining himself? And Roger can at least fight on par with him so does that mean he can destroy the world too?
> 
> Nope. WB is a life wiper. Create earthquake, send Tsunami etc to wipe out civilization etc. But he can't literally destroy the world.


There aren’t any other characters to scale WB too because he’s the Strongest character so far due to his DF planetary level DC. Post TS BB and Maybe Prime Roger will also have similar DC, but nether has fought yet.

As far as believing a statement, it comes from a highly credible source Sengoku; and is repeated in WB Vivre Card as well. So it’s about as credible as statements get and there is nothing going against it.

WB isn’t going to risk destroying the planet to win a fight as that would mean his own death and the death of all of his crew as well. So it’s not surprising that even though he had that power he never used it to the extent of actually destroying the planet. But it’s very likely he used it on higher levels before in battle, we just haven’t seen any of those battles. Probably because the Gura Max destructive output is tied to its Awakening ability which Oda is waiting to reveal via BB to hype him. Likewise BB after his plans are ultimately foiled by Luffy is a good candidate to be mad enough to throw a tantrum an actually use the World Ending full power of the Gura Fruit and Luffy will have to stop that power; and in doing so surpass WB and Roger.

Honestly though you have zero evidence to say he can’t destroy the world and both Sengoku and the Databook says he can, which is > Your Opinion, end of story


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## Zero (Sep 19, 2019)

Dark Knight said:


> If admirals=yonkou, do people realize just how fucking op the marines would be? If you include garp,sengoku kong, that's potentially 7 yonkou class fighters working together. Why the hell would they even need the shichibukai or vegapunk creations to maintain the balance?


Spittin Fax


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## Redline (Sep 19, 2019)

First off,  if oda wanna make it close to equal all the admirals better have color of conqueror...but I doubt that so
  Younkou>admirals by default

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Sherlōck (Sep 19, 2019)

Turrin said:


> There aren’t any other characters to scale WB too because he’s the Strongest character so far due to his DF planetary level DC. Post TS BB and Maybe Prime Roger will also have similar DC, but nether has fought yet.
> 
> As far as believing a statement, it comes from a highly credible source Sengoku; and is repeated in WB Vivre Card as well. So it’s about as credible as statements get and there is nothing going against it.
> 
> ...




Agree to disagree.


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## Turrin (Sep 19, 2019)

Sherlōck said:


> Agree to disagree.


Sure


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## Old Man Van (Sep 19, 2019)

Dark Knight said:


> If admirals=yonkou, do people realize just how fucking op the marines would be? If you include garp,sengoku kong, that's potentially 7 yonkou class fighters working together. Why the hell would they even need the shichibukai or vegapunk creations to maintain the balance?



The answer is simple: it's about politics, not individual power levels.....

It was directly said that Marines+Shichibukai=4 Emperors. However, the Marines arent just gonna randomly gather all their forces(that will leave many places including HQ n' Marijoies unprotected) to attack an emperor and lose resources. 

BM only brought a chunk of her crew but Kaido still freaked out despite having his full crew+samurais.


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## Dark Knight (Sep 19, 2019)

Old Man Van said:


> The answer is simple: it's about politics, not individual power levels.....
> 
> It was directly said that Marines+Shichibukai=4 Emperors. However, the Marines arent just gonna randomly gather all their forces(that will leave many places including HQ n' Marijoies unprotected) to attack an emperor and lose resources.
> 
> BM only brought a chunk of her crew but Kaido still freaked out despite having his full crew+samurais.


Well that's the thing,If admirals=yonkou, they won't even need to gather all their forces to deal with one emperor. If we hypothesize and say each admiral is as strong as kaido for example,and kizaru fujitora garp and a buster call pull up at Wano, who is stopping them?


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## Corax (Sep 19, 2019)

Dark Knight said:


> Well that's the thing,If admirals=yonkou, they won't even need to gather all their forces to deal with one emperor. If we hypothesize and say each admiral is as strong as kaido for example,and kizaru fujitora garp and a buster call pull up at Wano, who is stopping them?


They can't afford it. Actually pirates and Rev. have far more than 4 top tiers (including Dragon,ROX captain,Dark King Ray,Mihawk). Also marine forces are spread all over the world and have to monitor not only pirate top tiers but supernovas and different strong pirates.


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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Sep 19, 2019)

Old Man Van said:


> The answer is simple: it's about politics, not individual power levels.....
> 
> It was directly said that Marines+Shichibukai=4 Emperors. However, the Marines arent just gonna randomly gather all their forces(that will leave many places including HQ n' Marijoies unprotected) to attack an emperor and lose resources.
> 
> BM only brought a chunk of her crew but Kaido still freaked out despite having his full crew+samurais.



But the marines did just that. Granted it was to defend instead of attack but they gathered everything the marines had at their disposal and every Shibukai just to fight a single emperor.


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## Corax (Sep 19, 2019)

Ruthless Tsuchikage said:


> But the marines did just that. Granted it was to defend instead of attack but they gathered everything the marines had at their disposal and every Shibukai just to fight a single emperor.


As soon as they did WB,Kaido,Shanks,future yonko BB attacked them. Yonko are also monitoring the situation and are ready to attack.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Dark Knight (Sep 19, 2019)

Corax said:


> They can't afford it. Actually pirates and Rev. have far more than 4 top tiers (including Dragon,ROX captain,Dark King Ray,Mihawk). Also marine forces are spread all over the world and have to monitor not only pirate top tiers but supernovas and different strong pirates.


Like I said if yonkou=admirals, the marines would have not just 4 but 7 yonkou class soldiers if you include garp sengoku and kong. Basically 7 kaidos fighting together. Can you not see how ridiculously op that is?

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## Corax (Sep 19, 2019)

Dark Knight said:


> Like I said if yonkou=admirals, the marines would have not just 4 but 7 yonkou class soldiers if you include garp sengoku and kong. Basically 7 kaidos fighting together. Can you not see how ridiculously op that is?


How if they have to protect entire world?It isn't like they are seating in arena and baiting yonko for PvP. If you combine 4 yonko,Dragon,ROX captain,Ray,Mihawk and possibly Wheevil pirate side has even 9 top tiers.


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## Old Man Van (Sep 19, 2019)

Dark Knight said:


> Well that's the thing,If admirals=yonkou, they won't even need to gather all their forces to deal with one emperor. If we hypothesize and say each admiral is as strong as kaido for example,and kizaru fujitora garp and a buster call pull up at Wano, who is stopping them?



Still making it about individual power levels....that's not how war works....

Why was Kaido afraid of BM when his forces drawfed hers at the time?



Ruthless Tsuchikage said:


> But the marines did just that. Granted it was to defend instead of attack but they gathered everything the marines had at their disposal and every Shibukai just to fight a single emperor.



No they didnt. There were still Marines scattered through the world, 3 of the warlords fought against them and an emperor was attacking THEM, not the other way around.

Simple politics and common sense dictate that the marines will do everything they can to have a swift, one sided victory. They're not going to send a small percentage only to lose them.


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## Fujitora (Sep 20, 2019)

Edogawa said:


> The Yonkos have very limited feats except Big Mom, and you have to rely on scaling and hype titles to provide arguments, like scaling Shanks from Mihawk (who himself is still practically featless) and Zoro and Blackbeard from Whitebeard. But even then, the Admirals are consistently shown to be stronger than the Yonkos.
> 
> -Their Devil Fruits are much stronger and their fire-power is immense. It took humans over a century to change the climate by a small percentage, Aokiji and Akainu did in 10 days. And they didn't just change the climate, they devastated an island with icebergs and volcanos. Fujitora was casually lifting a country in the sky and summoning meteors. The Yonkos don't remotely have this level of firepower, except Blackbeard if we scale him to Whitebeard.
> 
> ...


???? Who the fuck told you big mom lasts for 48 hours only? If you’re gonna use facts don’t bring in your dumb ass headcanon.



Edogawa said:


> The Yonkos have very limited feats except Big Mom, and you have to rely on scaling and hype titles to provide arguments, like scaling Shanks from Mihawk (who himself is still practically featless) and Zoro and Blackbeard from Whitebeard. But even then, the Admirals are consistently shown to be stronger than the Yonkos.
> 
> -Their Devil Fruits are much stronger and their fire-power is immense. It took humans over a century to change the climate by a small percentage, Aokiji and Akainu did in 10 days. And they didn't just change the climate, they devastated an island with icebergs and volcanos. Fujitora was casually lifting a country in the sky and summoning meteors. The Yonkos don't remotely have this level of firepower, except Blackbeard if we scale him to Whitebeard.
> 
> ...


So you’re telling me hody Jones is stronger than kuma/ oars / Enel/Crocodile since he came in after them.



Seraphoenix said:


> Kaido and BM are enough to win. The admirals can't damage them and if they get hit by the club or sword it's a ohko.


Admirals know the advanced haki that luffy is true to learn so I doubt that



Shiba D. Inu said:


> yup
> 
> glad you see it
> 
> so them yonkous better not get hit with any meigous .. they may not have WBs endurance and damage soak to go on


They never said he had the highest offense, they said his fruit is amongst the strongest in terms of offense. Meaning there are others.



Corax said:


> It is an outlier. She was blitzed by weaker characters (like Brooke), Jinbei dodged all of her attacks,base Luffy dodged all of her attacks, Sanji and G3 Luffy intercepted her attacks . Ratio is like 20 bad feats vs 1 outlier.


Yeah because if she caught them they would die. While kaido not so much. Do you even understand PIS?



Corax said:


> Questionable with the new revelations. Oden was Ray's subordinate and the only one to seriously wound Kaido. If even Kaido>Prime Ray no less than near death extreme.


He scarred him, nowhere was it said that he seriously wounded him. Get over yourself.

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## Seraphoenix (Sep 21, 2019)

OniKaido said:


> Admirals know the advanced haki that luffy is true to learn so I doubt that


No. They have only shown the second level where you project the haki in front of you. 

Luffy is learning the one that damages someone from inside. Only Rayleigh I think has shown that.


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## Corax (Sep 21, 2019)

OniKaido said:


> He scarred him, nowhere was it said that he seriously wounded him. Get over yourself.


Even Luffy's scar looks smaller in comparison to his torso size. And Luffy was in near death condition.


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## Kinjin (Sep 21, 2019)

Please if you can avoid it don't make double posts, especially not sextuple posts @OniKaido

Add posts you want to quote with +Quote, then click 'Insert Quotes' in the reply box. That way, you can quote multiple people in your reply. You might need to refresh the site for the button 'Insert Quotes' to appear.

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## Turrin (Sep 21, 2019)

Sengoku with Mihawk, Aokiji, Akainu, Kizaru, himself, and Garp; was unsure they could beat old WB simply due to the Op nature of his fruits world ending DC; this should tell you the Yonko are above the Admirals as they have specific had the Admirals don’t. Kaidou is near immortal and the Soul Fruit can generate an entire army and is overall one of the most had fruits in the verse


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## Fujitora (Sep 21, 2019)

Kinjin said:


> Please if you can avoid it don't make double posts, especially not sextuple posts @OniKaido
> 
> Add posts you want to quote with +Quote, then click 'Insert Quotes' in the reply box. That way, you can quote multiple people in your reply. You might need to refresh the site for the button 'Insert Quotes' to appear.


I am sorry about that my friend! I wasn’t used to quoting everything it is my bad


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## ImpalerDragon (Sep 21, 2019)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Intelligence plays a role in deciding a character’s overall power though.
> 
> 
> This is completely absurd. The Admirals are roughly on the same level as the Emperors and above the Commanders.



They are not. Adminals cannot beat a commandment of a yonkou with out a distraction. You see what happen when kaido attacc g4 luffy? He was beat in one attacc.


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## God Movement (Sep 21, 2019)

Literally every Admiral is stronger than every Yonkou.

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## Juub (Sep 21, 2019)

God Movement said:


> Literally every Admiral is stronger than every Yonkou.


Admiral Inc broh.



Lol at those buying into the false hype of Kaido being the strongest creature.

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## Old Man Van (Sep 21, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Sengoku with Mihawk, Aokiji, Akainu, Kizaru, himself, and Garp; was unsure they could beat old WB simply due to the Op nature of his fruits world ending DC; this should tell you the Yonko are above the Admirals as they have specific had the Admirals don’t. Kaidou is near immortal and the Soul Fruit can generate an entire army and is overall one of the most had fruits in the verse



How does this put yonko above admirals exactly? Whitebeard, someone who stood above the yonko, having a world ending ability somehow translates to yonko>admiral individually? You can easily say WB>>>>yonko since he can sink their islands.

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## Turrin (Sep 22, 2019)

Old Man Van said:


> How does this put yonko above admirals exactly? Whitebeard, someone who stood above the yonko, having a world ending ability somehow translates to yonko>admiral individually? You can easily say WB>>>>yonko since he can sink their islands.


WB is a Yonko so he can’t stand above the title of Yonko. You can say the other Yonko are weaker then him, but if we’re comparing all 4 Yonko vs 4 Admirals that includes WB (or BB) and the power of the Gura fruit which due to its DC was state to make it questionable if 6 Admiral level fighters could win (or at least 3 confirmed and 3 close to Admiral level); and in a death match WB won’t have any issue going close to all out (and nether will BB); so there is no way 4 Admirals are above the Yonko; when one single Yonko (BB or WB) can be a threat to all 4 of them alone

Now talking outside a 4v4; if you want to compare the Yonko on an individual basis to the Admirals; 1v1. I actually think some of the Admirals could be equally or even more skilled fighters then the Yonko; but while their Logia fruit is powerful they don’t seems to possess the same sheer hax as the Yonko.

Big Moms Soul Fruit is broken in a war setting. As she and her incarnations can instant KO almost every soldier on the battlefield (as almost all of them will fear her) with Soul Pocus. We even see one of the Top Commanders of Kaidou (Queen) clearly fears her and could be instant one-shot by soul pocus. This is made even more OP by the fact that she and her incarnations can then take these souls and create new homies with them boosting Big Moms forces for ever soldier they defeat this way; also even more broken is the fact that if she takes souls from strong enemies (already shown she could have easily taken a top commanders soul) the stronger homies they create, boosting her forces even more. On top of this Big Mom has her 3 OP homies she created from her soul.

And now we have to consider we have seen the awakening of this fruit (which she likely can use) and if all of her incarnations are created from her soul technically they could also be converted into Homies or already have the battle power of Zues, Napoleon, etc...  which ether way means she can create a shit ton of Zeus level homies almost instantly if she has to.

While 1v1 this doesn’t help that much against an Admiral it makes Big Mom a much bigger threat to world stability then someone who simply has Admiral combat prowess. So do I think Akainu can beat Big Mom 1v1, sure; but do I think he could beat her with her army of homies / incarnations even if he had the back up of his own battleship like when he chased down BB;  nah he’d likely be crushed.

Kaidou Zoan fruit seems to make him invulnerable except under very specific circumstances so even if an Admiral fought him equally for days on end they wouldn’t win; and an army wouldn’t matter at all as none of their attacks can reach him

Shanks we don’t know much about but if his main theme is Haki as some expect then he probably is the one Yonko more skillful in combat then the Admirals and his CoC is probably
So busted that he can wipe out armies easily in a way that the Admirals simply can’t.

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## Old Man Van (Sep 22, 2019)

Turrin said:


> WB is a Yonko so he can’t stand above the title of Yonko. You can say the other Yonko are weaker then him, but if we’re comparing all 4 Yonko vs 4 Admirals that includes WB (or BB) and the power of the Gura fruit which due to its DC was state to make it questionable if 6 Admiral level fighters could win (or at least 3 confirmed and 3 close to Admiral level); and in a death match WB won’t have any issue going close to all out (and nether will BB); so there is no way 4 Admirals are above the Yonko; when one single Yonko (BB or WB) can be a threat to all 4 of them alone
> 
> Now talking outside a 4v4; if you want to compare the Yonko on an individual basis to the Admirals; 1v1. I actually think some of the Admirals could be equally or even more skilled fighters then the Yonko; but while their Logia fruit is powerful they don’t seems to possess the same sheer hax as the Yonko.
> 
> ...



You're just making up scenarios and assuming. WB would annihilate any yonko crew by sinking their islands and ships....that doesnt make WB much stronger than the other yonko does it? You do know that an admiral could easily get the better of WB in a 1v1 and the admirals didnt go all out either. You also talk about feats n' hax when the yonko has yet to display island level stuff unlike the admirals....

WB was placed on a pedestal of his own. He could've become PK at any time but was contempt with being a merr yonko. BM put WB on a higher pedestal than the rest of them......Jinbe said a mere yonko is nothing to the PK.....no one referred to WB as yonko but instead, as the World's strongest.

If WB can be used for the yonko, Garp can be used for the Admirals.

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## Turrin (Sep 23, 2019)

Old Man Van said:


> You're just making up scenarios and assuming. WB would annihilate any yonko crew by sinking their islands and ships....that doesnt make WB much stronger than the other yonko does it? You do know that an admiral could easily get the better of WB in a 1v1 and the admirals didnt go all out either. You also talk about feats n' hax when the yonko has yet to display island level stuff unlike the admirals....
> 
> WB was placed on a pedestal of his own. He could've become PK at any time but was contempt with being a merr yonko. BM put WB on a higher pedestal than the rest of them......Jinbe said a mere yonko is nothing to the PK.....no one referred to WB as yonko but instead, as the World's strongest.
> 
> If WB can be used for the yonko, Garp can be used for the Admirals.


When did I ever say WB would win by sinking their Island or ships (though he could win this way). WB is stronger then the other Yonko in a 1v1, because the moment they fail to evade one of his attacks he One-Shots them with World Ending DC (or close to that). As I said before he didn’t use close to his full power at MF because his mission was to rescue Ace, not a battle to the death with the Marines. Using his full power would have endangered his crew and Ace. But if you putting him in a battledome fight where the only objective is to kill his opponent he will use far more of his power and until the other Yonko or Admirals show durability to tank near planetary DC or their won DC being on that level to cancel it out they get destroyed.

For example if killing the Admirals was WB sole objective at Marine Ford he would have killed all 3 here the moment they failed to dodge as he would have used close to world ending DC while the Admirals have only been shown to be Small Island level (Aokiji and Alain’s on Punk Hazard):

And would not have been able to block as they did.

——

Admirals being capable of taking WB in a 1v1 depends on circumstances. If WB is holding back using the Full power of the Gura fruit like he did at Marine Ford, they can take him as their Speed and Haki doesn’t seem to fall behind his or their battle senses (although he was weakened but talking strictly about Old/Sick WB here). But if he used the full power of the Gura Fruit without restrain or less restrain he would have beaten the Aokiji and Akainu  easily. We can tell that based on his invidual 1v1 against them in the war. When Aokiji engaged him he couldn’t evade his attack and got hit here:

Again WB uses his full power there instead of a restrained blow and Aokiji is dead. When WB faces Akainu even after being stabbed mind you; Akainu can’t avoid his blows ether and is forced to clash with him; so again WB uses his full power in any of these clashes and Akainu is dead:

The only one you could argue is Kizaru as he never was hit by WB and is probably the fastest of the Admirals, but he was hit by Marco and most people place him around the other two Admirals if not inferior due to his laid back nature; I don’t know if I would go that far in-fact I think Kizaru may be hiding smithing, but so far the above is all we have to go on.

The first time the Yonko are introduced WB shadows is shown; so yes he was introduced as as Yonko and that’s his title. And yes the PK title is beyond that for sure, but that’s not just about strength. Ether way you can’t claim WB is beyond the Yonko when he is one.

Go ahead and use Garp for the Admirals; I’m not here’s to say all Yonko are greater then all Admirals for sure; I’m saying that from the Admirals we’ve seen in action and what we know the Yonko would crush any combo of 4 of them, This includes Garp as WB was the WSM not Garp; and Garp (not even a Prime) has shown anywhere close to anything that could handle World Ending DC. And the idea that Garp can’t stop this is supported by Sengoku believing even with Garp and the other Admirals they could all still die to the Gura Fruits World Ending Power.

If later we learn Prime Garp had some multi continental Haki punch then sure we can reevaluate, but until then statements and showings favor WB. Same goes for the other Admirals and Yonko. I’m not beyond changing my opinion it’s just right now you have the character and author telling you he’s the strongest (even when Old and Sick) because he has DC that can’t be matched by anyone; not even close as the best DC we’ve seen outside the Gura Fruit is only Island level


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## RossellaFiamingo (Sep 23, 2019)

I’m a Yonko person but no Top Tier is getting one shot by a quake Attack. Maybe if they don’t protect against it at all then sure but the same goes for any strong attack top tiers have. For example anyone who is stupid enough to stand in front of Ikoku sovereignty is likely dying to it. And I honestly separate DC from 1v1 damage.  KKG is Island level in regards to DC but we’ve seen that people like BM and Kaido can eat that shit easy. Some attacks don’t have huge DC in regards to sheer magnitude and range like the Gura Gura No Mi but are still lethal as all hell to take. 

While the Gura Gura is a powerful fruit, I don’t equate its continental level DC as all that useful because that DC is a mere by product of how the fruit works. It’s not a fruit for someone who wants finely tuned control of their environment. It’s a pure DC fruit but DC in regards to sheer range and magnitude of where it affects. 

Also I don’t believe even Roger or WB is a full level above any other Yonko. No current Yonko is losing in anything thats below extreme diff. Remember that Roger himself avoided fighting BM.


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## Corax (Sep 23, 2019)

BM blocked normal KG. Kaido blocked kong organ. Neither of them blocked King Kong Gun.


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## RossellaFiamingo (Sep 23, 2019)

Corax said:


> BM blocked normal KG. Kaido blocked kong organ. Neither of them blocked King Kong Gun.



From Luffy needing advanced haki, that alone should be enough to say that a top tier in durability can eat KKG. They may not come out clean but they’re not gonna get hurt much. It took KKG to put Doffy away. Also, we even saw a panel of Luffy using KKG with advanced haki so it goes to show in my opinion, KKG without anything else isn’t doing much to them.


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## TheWiggian (Sep 23, 2019)

Admirals nuke the island. The only ones that escape are Kaido in dragon form and BM on her cloud.

Those two get gangbanged above the clouds and splitting them won't help against a volcanoand basically the earths core iteself, light that surrounds everything, a glacier that can expand through continents or the fucking gravity itself that rules over the whole fucking universe.

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## Old Man Van (Sep 23, 2019)

Turrin said:


> When did I ever say WB would win by sinking their Island or ships (though he could win this way). WB is stronger then the other Yonko in a 1v1, because the moment they fail to evade one of his attacks he One-Shots them with World Ending DC (or close to that). As I said before he didn’t use close to his full power at MF because his mission was to rescue Ace, not a battle to the death with the Marines. Using his full power would have endangered his crew and Ace. But if you putting him in a battledome fight where the only objective is to kill his opponent he will use far more of his power and until the other Yonko or Admirals show durability to tank near planetary DC or their won DC being on that level to cancel it out they get destroyed.
> 
> For example if killing the Admirals was WB sole objective at Marine Ford he would have killed all 3 here the moment they failed to dodge as he would have used close to world ending DC while the Admirals have only been shown to be Small Island level (Aokiji and Alain’s on Punk Hazard):
> 
> ...



Ok I see....you genuinely believe that WB can destory the world with one move.......and can one shot guys Kaido....  

Did you not consider that maybe....just maybe, it would take time like days, weeks or months for WB to achieve that? It was said BM can destroy all of WCI but does that mean she can do it with one move?


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## Turrin (Sep 23, 2019)

Old Man Van said:


> Ok I see....you genuinely believe that WB can destory the world with one move.......and can one shot guys Kaido....
> 
> Did you not consider that maybe....just maybe, it would take time like days, weeks or months for WB to achieve that? It was said BM can destroy all of WCI but does that mean she can do it with one move?


There is no point having it stated that WB has the power to destroy the World at MF and the Vivre card if it takes days, weeks, months. If you want to say that He can’t do it in a single blow that’s fine but he needs multi continental attacks and be able to accomplish it within several attacks for that hype to even make sense as something being worth mentioned.

I don’t know if BM can do it in a single attack (wouldn’t be surprised as we’ve seen plenty of people at her level with island level DC), but she certainly can do it within a few moves; and it’s not meant to be taken as her taking days, weeks, months to do it lol


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## ImpalerDragon (Sep 25, 2019)

Yonko are much more stronger than admiral. Just look at whitebeard easily almost kill Aka inu with 2 attacks. And this whitebeard was as good as dead, he died like 5 minutes later.

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## gogcho (Sep 25, 2019)

^ WB sneak-attacked Akainu and knocked him down, even the second hit did not result in a knock-out. 5 min later Akainu came back and solo'd WB entire crew. WB died from the injuries that Akainu inflicted on him, blow for blow Akainu was victorious; the next day he walked as if nothing happened. So yes, WB almost killed Akainu whereas Akainu did kill WB. 

The conclusion we can make from the Akainu/WB skirmish is: Akainu's insane durability and the deadliness of his Devil Fruit abilities.

A top tier character shouldn't be "much more stronger" as you put it than another top tier character.

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## Canute87 (Sep 25, 2019)

Admirals can't win here with even numbers on the yonkou side.

All the yonkou's would have to do is isolate each other from battle and that's it ,  two island gura  splits can do that shit.  The yonkou's win

Admirals can't force a team up.


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## Steven (Sep 25, 2019)

gogcho said:


> ^ WB sneak-attacked Akainu and knocked him down, even the second hit did not result in a knock-out. 5 min later Akainu came back and solo'd WB entire crew. WB died from the injuries that Akainu inflicted on him, blow for blow Akainu was victorious; the next day he walked as if nothing happened. So yes, WB almost killed Akainu whereas Akainu did kill WB.
> 
> The conclusion we can make from the Akainu/WB skirmish is: Akainu's insane durability and the deadliness of his Devil Fruit abilities.
> 
> A top tier character shouldn't be "much more stronger" as you put it than another top tier character.


Akainu didnt kill WB.Neither he won the fight

The fight was over with 2 gurapunches


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## Turrin (Sep 25, 2019)

gogcho said:


> ^ WB sneak-attacked Akainu and knocked him down, even the second hit did not result in a knock-out. 5 min later Akainu came back and solo'd WB entire crew. WB died from the injuries that Akainu inflicted on him, blow for blow Akainu was victorious; the next day he walked as if nothing happened. So yes, WB almost killed Akainu whereas Akainu did kill WB.
> 
> The conclusion we can make from the Akainu/WB skirmish is: Akainu's insane durability and the deadliness of his Devil Fruit abilities.
> 
> A top tier character shouldn't be "much more stronger" as you put it than another top tier character.


WB didn’t use his full power; the fact that Akainu was heavily injured by suppressed WB should tell you that if he used anything close to his world ending DC Akaniu would have been done


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## gogcho (Sep 25, 2019)

Turrin said:


> WB didn’t use his full power; the fact that Akainu was heavily injured by suppressed WB should tell you that if he used anything close to his world ending DC Akaniu would have been done



The world ending power you speak of is simply hype to introduce the WSM. No character in the verse has world ending power; Oda makes Sengoku say it in order to put the spotlight on WB's entrance, this is not DBZ, don't take things too literally.

He may have "island or islands ending power" with his awakening but let's not push things too far.

Let's be real here, he sees his son die in front of him and he holds back? A few crewmates said 'pop's mad, get out of there', implying he was more than serious. Look at his face, is this man holding back in your opinion? Not every of WB's attacks is a world-ending earthquake, most likely his awakening grands him such island level AoE attacks, whereas his normal attacks are more focused on a single point (I know this is headcannon but it seems logical). He used absolitely full power in that moment because he was in enrage mode, and Akainu still survived, we have not seen such an insane feat of durability in the manga so far.



Efege said:


> Akainu didnt kill WB.Neither he won the fight
> The fight was over with 2 gurapunches



The most damage was dealt by Akainu and a bit from Squardo's stab. BB did the coup de grâce. Akainu was never knocked-out and  fell down a chasm only to come back 5 min later, that's akin to a boxer who is punched heavily and falls from the ring due to balance loss. Later the boxer climbs up in the ring again to continue the fight but his opponent is not there anymore.

We can only guess what would've happened if there was not a sneak-attack, but even after all that Akainu was completely conscious although moderately injured.


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## Turrin (Sep 25, 2019)

gogcho said:


> The world ending power you speak of is simply hype to introduce the WSM. No character in the verse has world ending power; Oda makes Sengoku say it in order to put the spotlight on WB's entrance, this is not DBZ, don't take things too literally.
> 
> He may have "island or islands ending power" with his awakening but let's not push things too far.
> 
> ...


Do you have any evidence whatsoever that it’s just hype, considering Sengoku and vire card say he had this power. Or are just assuming it is out of convenience for your argument 

And WB can be pissed but he’s going to hold back because he loves his other sons that are on the island


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## Steven (Sep 25, 2019)

gogcho said:


> The world ending power you speak of is simply hype to introduce the WSM. No character in the verse has world ending power; Oda makes Sengoku say it in order to put the spotlight on WB's entrance, this is not DBZ, don't take things too literally.
> 
> He may have "island or islands ending power" with his awakening but let's not push things too far.
> 
> ...


5 minutes is fanfic

Akainu waited under the ground until WB died


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## gogcho (Sep 25, 2019)

Efege said:


> 5 minutes is fanfic
> 
> Akainu waited under the ground until WB died


Could be, I doubt it tho. Tbh I could be convinced he actually waited out a bit but not to wait WB to die, more like to recuperate from his injuries and dig the tunnel.



Turrin said:


> Do you have any evidence whatsoever that it’s just hype, considering Sengoku and vire card say he had this power. Or are just assuming it is out of convenience for your argument
> 
> And WB can be pissed but he’s going to hold back because he loves his other sons that are on the island



This was quite literally a prime example of blind rage, he had nothing on his mind except killing Akainu at that moment. He definitely loves his sons but even they knew they had to get away from there because he was, like I said blind with rage. A person blind with rage does not hold back.

I have not read that vivre card, but even if it states that he is quite literally able to destroy the world I assume it is an AOE attack (emphasis on AoE) unlocked with the awakening of Gura Gura no Mi, and not a focused point attack like the ones aimed at Akainu. I mean, WB and his punches are not walking world-ending earthquake machines like you present them to be.

You assume his normal punches are world-ending with the only variable to take into account being 'power', whereas I assume a different technique altogether is needed in order to produce such a dramatic effect; most likely an AoE technique akin to *Shima Yurashi* (the attack that knocked the giant Vice Admiral off his feet) and which is unlocked with his awakening.
What we assume is pure speculation, but I think my assumption is more logical.


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## Turrin (Sep 25, 2019)

gogcho said:


> Could be, I doubt it tho. Tbh I could be convinced he actually waited out a bit but not to wait WB to die, more like to recuperate from his injuries and dig the tunnel.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



1. Prove it was blind rage and that he didn’t have the well fare of his other sons on his mind.

2. 
3. Whether it’s AoE or a focused attack doesn’t matter as its going to be far above the level of attacks WB hit Akainu with in DC considering its ability to destroy the world; so yeah Akainu would get decimated if he could barely handle WB restrained attacks


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## Fel1x (Sep 25, 2019)

gogcho said:


> ^ WB sneak-attacked Akainu and knocked him down, even the second hit did not result in a knock-out. 5 min later Akainu came back and solo'd WB entire crew. WB died from the injuries that Akainu inflicted on him, blow for blow Akainu was victorious; the next day he walked as if nothing happened. So yes, WB almost killed Akainu whereas Akainu did kill WB.
> 
> The conclusion we can make from the Akainu/WB skirmish is: Akainu's insane durability and the deadliness of his Devil Fruit abilities.
> 
> A top tier character shouldn't be "much more stronger" as you put it than another top tier character.


loled at sneak-attack in One Piece world where everyone has CoO and superb reaction

Reactions: Like 3


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## Steven (Sep 25, 2019)

Fel1x said:


> loled at sneak-attack in One Piece world where everyone has CoO and superb reaction


Pretty much this


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## gogcho (Sep 25, 2019)

Fel1x said:


> loled at sneak-attack in One Piece world where everyone has CoO and superb reaction


CoO was not officially introduced at that point in time. But even if it was Akainu's fault for not predicting WB's attack this still doesn't explain how on earth he survived a sneak-attack to the head from the most powerful paramecia on the world with the user being in enrage mode. The explanation must be that top tier characters must be just that durable. The other Emperors and Admirals will most likely also be completely conscious after a gura-headshot with no CoA activated, albeit heavily damaged.



Turrin said:


> 1. Prove it was blind rage and that he didn’t have the well fare of his other sons on his mind.
> 
> 
> 3. Whether it’s AoE or a focused attack doesn’t matter as its going to be far above the level of attacks WB hit Akainu with in DC considering its ability to destroy the world; so yeah Akainu would get decimated if he could barely handle WB restrained attacks



 Dunno man, I'm not convinced. For an attack to have such a dramatic effect it needs to be AoE and most likely unlocked with awakening. But even if I follow you up on this and assume his normal punches are capable of ending the world if WB had hit Akainu with an awakened attack most likely the damage done on Akainu would've been the same but the AoE ripple would be the one to have the effect of "destroying the world". I just read again the panel where he is hitting him, and let me tell you, that man is not restraining himself.
But I see you're quite adamant on this, and I prefer to let it go.

edit - WB seemed to have little well fare on his mind when he used *Shima Yurashi*  and people started falling left and right.


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## Sherlōck (Sep 26, 2019)

People are acting like if Akainu sneak attacked WB in the head that WB would be still alive.

Reactions: Like 3


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## gogcho (Sep 26, 2019)

^ Akainu did indeed have a free shot on Wb when the latter had a heart attack but for plot purposes he targeted his chest and not his head.


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## Turrin (Sep 26, 2019)

gogcho said:


> CoO was not officially introduced at that point in time. But even if it was Akainu's fault for not predicting WB's attack this still doesn't explain how on earth he survived a sneak-attack to the head from the most powerful paramecia on the world with the user being in enrage mode. The explanation must be that top tier characters must be just that durable. The other Emperors and Admirals will most likely also be completely conscious after a gura-headshot with no CoA activated, albeit heavily damaged.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


1. Why does it matter if it’s Aoe or Awakening? Ether way he had a move he could have used against Akainu with far higher DC, that would have crushed him

2. The second part of this is nonsense lol; If the hits WB hit Akainu with merely split the island of MF (Island level) then if he hits him with World Ending one (Planetary) the force is gong to be way greater on Akainu the first point of contact.


3. Again you can’t prove to me that WB stopped caring about the safety of his sons ever; it goes against his character period


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## Corax (Sep 26, 2019)

Akainu really had a free shot while WB was completely helpless but for plot purposes he attacked his chest. So yeah if he gets a free shot from behind and tags WB's head like WB did he kills him.


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## Old Man Van (Sep 26, 2019)

This planetary AP is completely made up and stupid.....how could anyone think WB could one shot even Kaido or destroy the world in one move? That's like saying Akainu can one shot everyone since he can turn the world into a volcanic wasteland given time. 

WB never beat Akainu. It was directly stated that Akainu was digging a tunnel the whole time and his focus was always on Luffy, before and after QB came at him. If Akainu was massively injured like some claim, then he's just overpowered since Marco with help couldnt scratch an Akainu using nameless moves.....

People seem to forget that the commanders were doing better against the admirals than WB and WB got outmatched by all 3.....


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## Lurko (Sep 26, 2019)

Prime WB kills Akainu.


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## gogcho (Sep 26, 2019)

^ Primebeard kills all except Roger and maybe Prime Garp, nothing new here. Primebeard vs current Akainu is a bit more interesting, but most likely WB still wins extreme diff.



Old Man Van said:


> This planetary AP is completely made up and stupid.....how could anyone think WB could one shot even Kaido or destroy the world in one move? That's like saying Akainu can one shot everyone since he can turn the world into a volcanic wasteland given time.



I agree. No top tier can one shot or two shot another top tier, just like we saw during MF. For a victor to emerge a few to several days are needed if they are close to power. Logically speaking a Mihawk slash to the neck should behead everybody or a Meigo to the head should headshot everybody, but characters in One Piece simply do not go for fatal shots, this is not the manga's spirit. This is a shonen manga, not Vagabond or Berserk.


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## Lurko (Sep 26, 2019)

gogcho said:


> ^ Primebeard kills all except Roger and maybe Prime Garp, nothing new here. Primebeard vs current Akainu is a bit more interesting, but most likely WB still wins extreme diff.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. No top tier can one shot or two shot another top tier, just like we saw during MF. For a victor to emerge a few to several days are needed if they are close to power. Logically speaking a Mihawk slash to the neck should behead everybody or a Meigo to the head should headshot everybody, but characters in One Piece simply do not go for fatal shots, this is not the manga's spirit. This is a shonen manga, not Vagabond or Berserk.


Prime Sengoku or Rox? Shinki?


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## gogcho (Sep 26, 2019)

^ Dunno, didn't think about them, maybe.


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## Old Man Van (Sep 26, 2019)

Roxy's strength in unknown. WB still became WSM even though Shiki was around.


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## Cliffiffillite44428 (Sep 27, 2019)

Admirals should win. 

The powerscale structure was literally portrayed significantly on the Admiral's lane of portrayal.

Not to mention the whole "RedDog, BluePheasant, YellowMonkey" all being mythical characters unlike the Yonko who etymologically amount to literal nothing in fact. So there's that.

Akainu's significantly alludes his superiority in the battle facet of things, he could literally melt the molecules of substance to submerge Whitebeard quite literally in fact and there's little to no evidence regarding the contrary especially since dawg's got drastically downscaled in terms of overall battle stamina, and endurance, durability - most likely.

Kizaru is literally the strongest Admiral, he could traverse at light speeds to eradicate the fields to the S/T twisting transpiring due to the compounded traverse velocities. He could literally vaporise foes likewise.

Aokiji could literally freeze the water droplets extanted on air petrifying the air molecules partially withstanding the offensive capabilities emitted by a foe then recharge by diluting the water by inducing ice elements dispatching the foe due to ice like temperatures.

Don't see how the Yonko stands a chance if any lmao.


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## Gohara (Oct 1, 2019)

Suggesting that Whitebeard would have been incapacitated from Akainu's techniques even without the Blackbeard Pirates interfering is speculation.  It isn't uncommon in anime for characters to withstand injuries like that.  Also the idea that it was sneaking from Whitebeard isn't proven, Akainu has multiple panels to react between when Whitebeard lands and when Whitebeard lands a punch on Akainu.  There are also characters that mention to Akainu that Whitebeard is behind him prior to those multiple panels.  So to assume that it is sneaking from Whitebeard assumes that the multiple panels are simultaneously happening with the other panels.  Not only are there multiple interpretations, I would need an awesome reason to agree with a fan's interpretation of that scene vs. the anime's interpretation of it, when we know that Oda has a lot more interaction with the animators than he does the fans discussing that scene.

I'm not convinced that Whitebeard's abilities can literally destroy the world in the same way that a Dragon Ball character can, however it is also worth noting that Whitebeard's character is significantly nerfed in that clash with Akainu.

"A top tier character shouldn't be "much more stronger" as you put it than another top tier character."

Possibly, however not everyone agrees that the admirals are around the same ranking as the yonkou.  

I think that some of you guys are underestimating characters' abilities to react to techniques.

Akainu did aim at Whitebeard's face and even with Whitebeard's character not being focused he still avoided that technique landing fully on his face and dodged enough of that technique to withstand it, and in other shonen series characters have shown to be capable of dodging techniques even when other characters are sneaking


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## Gohara (Oct 1, 2019)

"Not to mention the whole "RedDog, BluePheasant, YellowMonkey" all being mythical characters unlike the Yonko who etymologically amount to literal nothing in fact. So there's that."

Kaidou- Dragon

Blackbeard- Darkness

Whitebeard- Abilities are based on earthquakes, which some of the most powerful entities in folklore/myths use

Linlin's character- Sorceress

Shanks- Rocks had to summon his pet dragon fish to best Shanks before Shanks could become a yonkou

Kizaru doesn't literally travel at the speed of light

As for Aokiji, characters significantly inferior to the yonkou have destroyed his ice

True about Akainu, however Akainu didn't best a significantly nerfed version of a yonkou


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## YellowCosmos (Oct 3, 2019)

The Yonkou win. The Admirals have too many conflicting abilities. If Akainu goes all out, then Aokiji suffers. If Aokiji goes all out, then Akainu suffers. Furthermore, Blackbeard gives the Yonkuo excellent defence against the sort of AoE attacks which are the Admiral's specialities. He can absorb magma, meteors, laser barrages and almost anything else they can throw at him. (Big Mom can potentially assist him in this by giving a soul to some of his darkness). 

I'm assuming they're not split up. If they are, I suppose it can go either way.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiroryu (Oct 3, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> is this even allowed ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


AoE is only useful in large group battles against weaker characters 

Why does it matter that Kizaru can cover an entire bay with light beams when only 0.1% of them are gonna hit the enemies in small group fights?


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## trance (Oct 4, 2019)

Gohara said:


> Kizaru doesn't literally travel at the speed of light



maybe he can and one piece characters' reflexes are just that fast

Reactions: Like 1


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## Flame (Oct 4, 2019)

Rakuyo said:


> maybe he can and one piece characters' reflexes are just that fast


He does travel at light speed.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Corax (Oct 4, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> AoE is only useful in large group battles against weaker characters
> 
> Why does it matter that Kizaru can cover an entire bay with light beams when only 0.1% of them are gonna hit the enemies in small group fights?


It matters obviously. For example every explosion even island or country sized is at its max in the epicenter and areas close to it. So everyone let's say in the epicenter and a few kilometers around country buster will suffer 90%-100% yield of said explosion.


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## Sengoku (Oct 5, 2019)

Are we forgetting the fact that Big Mom is a heavy burden? An *empress* with the best intelligence team and had a *DROP* on the rookies and *STILL* *couldn't* catch them *immediately* despite having Zeus on her side.
The admirals would *run circles* around her all day, every day.

Also, the admirals are likely taught in strict battle doctrines that will propel them to a successful victory. When shit hits the fan, the admirals will remember their hellish training, hunker down, and fight like a true single unit.

The Yonkos? Ptfff. Internal fighting galore.

Reactions: Like 5


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## Kylo Ren (Oct 5, 2019)

Sengoku said:


> The Yonkos? Ptfff. Internal fighting galore.


the only reason the Admirals have a fighting chance.


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## savior2005 (Oct 5, 2019)

While I do think that,on average, the Yonko are individually stronger (slightly) then the Admirals, I think that the Admirals have better teamwork. I'd probably still favor the Yonko extreme diff.


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## Beast (Oct 6, 2019)

Are we using character statements in the battle dome now.


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## Shiroryu (Oct 6, 2019)

Lurker said:


> Prime Sengoku or Rox? Shinki?


Shiki isn’t on the same level as them. Prime Sengoku probably isn’t either


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## Gohara (Oct 8, 2019)

Rakuyo said:


> maybe he can and one piece characters' reflexes are just that fast



If One Piece characters in general have speed like that, then Kizaru being light speed matters the same as if he didn't travel at actual light speed anyways

There are multiple inconsistencies with the idea of Kizaru being actual light speed, unless we argue that Oda simply manipulates the One Piece universe in a way where light speed is different in that universe, in which case Kizaru being actual light speed would again be moot point in the context of power rankings


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## trance (Oct 8, 2019)

Gohara said:


> unless we argue that Oda simply manipulates the One Piece universe in a way where light speed is different in that universe



maybe it is

who's to say that it isnt


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## Redline (Oct 8, 2019)




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## xmysticgohanx (Oct 8, 2019)

Kizaru does move at light speed

source: my weekly FaceTimes with Oda


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## trance (Oct 9, 2019)

xmysticgohanx said:


> source: my weekly FaceTimes with Oda



lies

cuz during MY weekly facetimes with oda, he's told me on more than one occasion that im the only member from nf who he facetimes

Reactions: Like 1


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## Seraphoenix (Oct 9, 2019)

Kaido and BM alone could take this. Dont @ me


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## Steven (Oct 9, 2019)

@Seraphoenix


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## xmysticgohanx (Oct 9, 2019)

Rakuyo said:


> lies
> 
> cuz during MY weekly facetimes with oda, he's told me on more than one occasion that im the only member from nf who he facetimes


 raaaaaa


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 9, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> Shiki isn’t on the same level as them. Prime Sengoku probably isn’t either


Sengoku is a legendary Admiral from Rogers era who’s respected by Whitebeard.


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## Shiroryu (Oct 9, 2019)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Sengoku is a legendary Admiral from Rogers era who’s respected by Whitebeard.


Don’t see what puts him above Akainu


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## Redline (Oct 9, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> Don’t see what puts him above Akainu


If Garp is then maybe sengoku can be too.. like he was actually lol..maybe now he is just getting older you know... but you can be sure there was a time when Sengoku could have easily beat Akainou...only Garp can still do it today!. Or better could have back at MF with the right motivations...


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## TheWiggian (Oct 12, 2019)

guys you heard the newest news???


*Spoiler*: __ 



Garp and Roger > Rocks, WB, Kaibin boi and Meme


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 12, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> Don’t see what puts him above Akainu


They were probably at about the same level. Sengoku is massively underrated. He’s a legendary Admiral from Rogers era, the only person that gets unequivocal respect from Whitebeard, a genius strategist and tactician, he has a Mythical Zoan and all 3 forms of Haki, given that the Admirals all had advanced CoA, he’s probably trained all 3 forms to their highest level or close to it.


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## ImpalerDragon (Oct 14, 2019)

Admirals are weak. They only can fighted commandments in the big war. Look what kaido or big mama can do to commandments.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 15, 2019)

ImpalerDragon said:


> Admirals are weak. They only can fighted commandments in the big war. Look what kaido or big mama can do to commandments.


This is objectively false.


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## trance (Oct 15, 2019)

>commandments

this isnt nnt bud


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## trance (Oct 15, 2019)

@A Optimistic thoughts on this thread?


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## Corax (Oct 15, 2019)

ImpalerDragon said:


> Admirals are weak. They only can fighted commandments in the big war. Look what kaido or big mama can do to commandments.


We saw that they can do to commanders. One had to spent a day as amnesiac old lady after FM blitz to be chained by another YC. Another has a giant scar on his abdomen and chest after defeating another commander.

Reactions: Like 3


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## GreenBull956 (Oct 15, 2019)

ImpalerDragon said:


> Admirals are weak. They only can fighted commandments in the big war. Look what kaido or big mama can do to commandments.


Fight for like .... 1 Chapter ? Aokiji vs Jozu was this long if i remember correctly , Kizaru also only clashed with Marco twice


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## Aaron Tōshiro (Oct 15, 2019)

Yonko<=Admirals

The gap might get bigger


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## Gohara (Oct 15, 2019)

Rakuyo said:


> maybe it is
> 
> who's to say that it isnt



Possibly, however my point is more so arguing against the idea that Kizaru being light speed doesn't really suggest anything about how his speed compares to the other fastest characters in that series, unless we assume that Oda doesn't manipulate the universe in that way and that it is actual light speed


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## Fujitora (Oct 15, 2019)

Corax said:


> We saw that they can do to commanders. One had to spent a day as amnesiac old lady after FM blitz to be chained by another YC. Another has a giant scar on his abdomen and chest after defeating another commander.


I’m sorry what. This has to be trolling


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## Aaron Tōshiro (Oct 16, 2019)

Trafalgar Rao said:


> Yonko<=Admirals
> 
> The gap might get bigger


@tejas8055


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## Corax (Oct 16, 2019)

OniKaido said:


> I’m sorry what. This has to be trolling


Oda sometimes is a big troll. Especially if BM is involved.


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 20, 2019)

Look at all of their abilities.

1) the 3 from the start of the series all have logins. They have the most powerful of the 3 types of Devil Fruits.

2) Aokiji and Akainu were able to fight for 10 days straight so they have incredible stamina and endurance.

3) They all probably have awakened their DF’s. Akainu and Aokiji were able to permanently change the environment at Punk Hazard.

4) Akainu was physically strong enough to stop WB’s bisento and match his quake punch with his magma fist.

5) Akainu is confirmed to have the highest attack power in One Piece.

6) He was durable enough to get up and keep fighting after getting two quake fists from bloodlusted Whitebeard.

7) They have advanced CoA.

8) They probably have future sight or at least Aokiji seems to have it. He was able to protect himself from WB’s bisento Haki slash in the same way that Katakuri did.

9) Akainu is probably going to be one of the Final Villains. He might be the Final Villain.

10) They probably have CoC like Sengoku.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Yuji (Oct 20, 2019)

In what way are they underrated though?

Also, you are ascribing abilities to them that they 100% do not deserve with the information we currently have... such as future sight and conquerors and claiming Akainu might be the final villain. If anything that's overrating them, especially the final villain part.


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## Dellinger (Oct 20, 2019)

How are they underrated ? They are overrated since they are not as strong as the Yonko.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Arles Celes (Oct 20, 2019)

So what is the new consensus on the admirals now? 

Are they almost as strong as yonko but not quite so?

Are they somewhere between first mate and yonko level?

Are they first mate level?


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 20, 2019)

Yuji said:


> In what way are they underrated though?
> 
> Also, you are ascribing abilities to them that they 100% do not deserve with the information we currently have... such as future sight and conquerors and claiming Akainu might be the final villain. If anything that's overrating them, especially the final villain part.


Having CoC seems obvious to me. I don’t think that it was confirmed that Rogers had CoC, but most of us believe that he has it. What Aokiji did to avoid WB’s Haki bisento stab was very similar to what Katakuri did and Akainu is going to be one of the last villains that Luffy fights. He might be the last.


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## Ruse (Oct 20, 2019)

Arles Celes said:


> So what is the new consensus on the admirals now?
> 
> Are they almost as strong as yonko but not quite so?
> 
> ...



I’d go for the bolded, used to think they were equals but once we got more info on Kaido/Big Mom things changed.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 20, 2019)

Ruse said:


> I’d go for the bolded, used to think they were equals but once we got more info on Kaido/Big Mom things changed.


What changed?


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## Ruse (Oct 20, 2019)

Lee-Sensei said:


> What changed?



>Another emperor got a worlds strongest title
>Kaido one shot a first mate lvl fighter, something no Admiral has done
>Big Mom rag dolled another top YC with no devil fruit or haki, no Admiral dominated a top commander to that extent not even Akainu
>Even with some of her nonsensical Whole cake island showings, Big Mom got similar portrayal with Kaido to what Shanks had with WB.


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 20, 2019)

Ruse said:


> >Another emperor got a worlds strongest title
> >Kaido one shot a first mate lvl fighter, something no Admiral has done
> >Big Mom rag dolled another top YC with no devil fruit or haki, no Admiral dominated a top commander to that extent not even Akainu
> >Even with some of her nonsensical Whole cake island showings, Big Mom got similar portrayal with Kaido to what Shanks had with WB.


1) Aokiji took down Jozu pretty easily.

2) Akainu had a similar clash with Whitebeard.


3) Blackbeard ran from Akainu in the same way that he ran from Shanks.

Reactions: Like 1


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## trance (Oct 20, 2019)

@Seraphoenix


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## Kinjin (Oct 20, 2019)

We've no idea about the full extent of the Admirals powers. 

Gotta love the argument that they didn't one-shot commanders at MF. Guess folks wanted to get rid of any tension the arc had. You're making the mistake to take their feats at MF at face value when Oda didn't even properly think the concept of Haki through, but apparently it's set in stone that Yonko >> Admirals.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Ruse (Oct 20, 2019)

Lee-Sensei said:


> 1) Aokiji took down Jozu pretty easily.
> 
> 2) Akainu had a similar clash with Whitebeard.
> 
> ...



1.Yeah after Jozu was distracted 
2. After WB got stabbed by a massive sword, Shanks clashed with WB at his best 

I’ll concede on the 3rd point though.


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 20, 2019)

Ruse said:


> 1.Yeah after Jozu was distracted
> 2. After WB got stabbed by a massive sword, Shanks clashed with WB at his best
> 
> I’ll concede on the 3rd point though.


1) It seemed pretty casual. Aokiji at his best froze the sea between two islands. When he fought someone at his level, it took 10 days.

2) Squardo is relative fodder. He has a bounty of a little over 200 million. If anything, that would be a negative feat for WB. Akainu was blindsided by a bloodlusted WB and tanked took a quake fist to the noggin. He wasn’t even bandaged up after the War. He went chasing Blackbeard and BB with his darkness fruit and WB’s earthquake fruit along with his crew, the elite of Level 6 prisoners and a giant that dwarfed litte Oars Jr, in size fled. it didn’t even seem like he had another Admiral or at least some Vice Admirals with him. It looked like generic marine fodder.

3) We’ll just have to wait and see, but I don’t think that it makes sense for the Emperors to be on a level above the Admirals or Mihawk.


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## Ruse (Oct 20, 2019)

Lee-Sensei said:


> 1) It seemed pretty casual. Aokiji at his best froze the sea between two islands. When he fought someone at his level, it took 10 days.
> 
> 2) Squardo is relative fodder. He has a bounty of a little over 200 million. If anything, that would be a negative feat for WB. Akainu was blindsided by a bloodlusted WB and tanked took a quake fist to the noggin. He wasn’t even bandaged up after the War. He went chasing Blackbeard and BB with his darkness fruit and WB’s earthquake fruit along with his crew, the elite of Level 6 prisoners and a giant that dwarfed litte Oars Jr, in size fled. it didn’t even seem like he had another Admiral or at least some Vice Admirals with him. It looked like generic marine fodder.
> 
> 3) We’ll just have to wait and see, but I don’t think that it makes sense for the Emperors to be on a level above the Admirals or Mihawk.



1. I’m not really disputing whether Aokiji can beat Jozu because I know he can just in that sequence the commanders were only taken out after distractions. It may come across like I’m being harsh on the admirals but given what Kaido and Big Mom have done it looks a little suspect. 

2. WB was already ill tho and unlike Kaido/BM doesn’t have special durability to shrug off swords and bullets, just because someone is fodder doesn’t they can’t do damage under the right circumstances, Bellamy’s hits did a lot of damage to guarding Luffy even though we know he’s fodder to Luffy.

3. Not gonna speak on Mihawk but as far the Admirals go I think it does make sense in the old gen Roger, WB and Rocks were superior to their marine counterparts and this coming generation the likes of Smoker/Tashigi can’t measure up to the Supernovas seems to be a pattern...


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 20, 2019)

Ruse said:


> 1. I’m not really disputing whether Aokiji can beat Jozu because I know he can just in that sequence the commanders were only taken out after distractions. It may come across like I’m being harsh on the admirals but given what Kaido and Big Mom have done it looks a little suspect.
> 
> 2. WB was already ill tho and unlike Kaido/BM doesn’t have special durability to shrug off swords and bullets, just because someone is fodder doesn’t they can’t do damage under the right circumstances, Bellamy’s hits did a lot of damage to guarding Luffy even though we know he’s fodder to Luffy.
> 
> 3. Not gonna speak on Mihawk but as far the Admirals go I think it does make sense in the old gen Roger, WB and Rocks were superior to their marine counterparts and this coming generation the likes of Smoker/Tashigi can’t measure up to the Supernovas seems to be a pattern...


1) Akainu was overpowering all of WB’s Commanders by himself with the exception of Jozu (since he’d been taken out by Aokiji).

2) I don’t think the wound was a big deal. I think the fact that Akainu was sowing division within Whitebeard ranks was more important.

4) People have used similar arguments for Mihawk. Roger and WB were slightly ahead of their Marine counterparts. Koby’s not there yet, but he’s going to reach the point where he can give Luffy a hard fight. Also remember that Oda said that if Akainu was so powerful that he could end the story in a year.


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## Steven (Oct 20, 2019)

Still Yonkou

Better feats and portrayal


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## RossellaFiamingo (Oct 21, 2019)

Now that the dust has settled and it’s without doubt that while Admirals are top tier, they’re not on the level of the Yonko, how many Admirals does it take to comfortably beat any of the current Yonko in their strongest form?

By comfortably, I mean on the low end of high difficulty at the most. I believe it’s 2 but what do you lot think?


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## trance (Oct 21, 2019)

i'm sorry

im still in the admiral camp but i will admit, my faith has been shaken somewhat

however, i'm reserving full judgment of the marines til after their arc


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 21, 2019)

It would only take 1. 2 or more Admirals would stomp any single  Emperor.


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## GreenBull956 (Oct 21, 2019)

2 , though they will Mid Diff any Emperor .

3 was portrayed to be > 7 Warlords and their crews , which legit looks like an Emperor crew .

So 3 > an Emperor crew .

*Spoiler*: __ 




World's Strongest Swordsman Mihawk
Weevil
Doflamingo
fresh Kuma
Hancock
Law
Buggy


Donquixote Pirates
- Vergo
- Pica
- Trebol
- Diamante
- Lao G
- Dellinger
- Giolla
- Viola
- Sugar
- Caesar
- Monet
- Senor Pink
- Machvise
- Gladius
- Baby 5
- Buffalo
- Kyuin
 - Bellamy Pirates including Bellamy


Buggy's Delivery
5 giants :
- Hajrudin
- Goldberg
- Stansen
- Rodo
- Gerd

- Alvida
- Mohji
- Richie
- Cabaji
- Galdino
- 3 Tightrope Funan Walking Bros
- Superhuman Domingos
- Acrobatic Fuwas
- Impel Down Inmates
- Kinoko
- Buggy Balls Attendant


Kuja Pirates
- Sandersonia
- Marigold
- Ran
- Daisy
- Cosmos
- Rindo
- Blue Fan
- Aphelandra
- Marguerite
- Sweet Pea
- Yuda Snakes
- Bacura
- Salome


Heart Pirates
- Jean Bart
- Bepo
- Shachi
- Penguin
- Ikkaku
- Uni
- Clione




*Spoiler*: __ 




Big Mom ~ Mihawk
Katakuri < Weevil
Smoothie ~ Doflamingo
Cracker ~ fresh Kuma
Snack ~ Hancock
Perospero , Daifuku < Law
Oven , Compote < Pica , Vergo  

this unamed giant 


<<<<< Hajrudin Stansen Goldberg Rodo Gerd


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## Yuji (Oct 21, 2019)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> how many Admirals does it take to comfortably beat any of the current Yonko in their strongest form?



*At least 3*, the fight against just Shiki was portrayed to be high diff in chapter 0 and that was with Garp - the most hyped and strongest marine of all time - and Sengoku who became fleet admiral. 

Then Fujitora looks like he had a high diff fight alongside Greenbull against Sabo and the other revolutionaries. Sabo should be at least close to the guy that Kaido one shot, and the other revolutionaries don't seem that strong but we simply don't know. 

Blackbeard was also taking on Garp + Sengoku and Sengoku ended up in bandages.

Against old, retired Rayleigh who hadn't picked up a sword in a decade, Kizaru admitted that he alone wouldn't be enough to bring him in. So imagine what he'd say to the monster that is Big Mom.

3 seems pretty solid for a high/extreme diff win, anything less and they lose.


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## Gianfi (Oct 21, 2019)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> Now that the dust has settled and it’s without doubt that while Admirals are top tier, they’re not on the level of the Yonko, how many Admirals does it take to comfortably beat any of the current Yonko in their strongest form?
> 
> By comfortably, I mean on the low end of high difficulty at the most. I believe it’s 2 but what do you lot think?


2 I guess even for Roger. What changes is difficulty, it may take extreme diff to take down the former PK


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## Corax (Oct 21, 2019)

Yuji said:


> *At least 3*, the fight against just Shiki was portrayed to be high diff in chapter 0 and that was with Garp - the most hyped and strongest marine of all time - and Sengoku who became fleet admiral.
> 
> Then Fujitora looks like he had a high diff fight alongside Greenbull against Sabo and the other revolutionaries. Sabo should be at least close to the guy that Kaido one shot, and the other revolutionaries don't seem that strong but we simply don't know.
> 
> ...


Who said that Garp+Sengoku vs Shiki was high diff?General consensus is that high diff means that character is quite seriously beaten up and reached its limit in the said fight. While extreme is character has to surpass  its limit and is crippled/can't stand after that fight and has to recover for some time. Neither happened in Garp+Sengoku vs Shiki or Garp+Sengoku vs Teach and his crew. He used briefly his zoan and had some bandages,no more than mid (likely low mid).


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## Dellinger (Oct 21, 2019)

Don’t know why you guys try this hard

Kaido and Big Mom vs Sabo and the other Revo commanders

How does it go ? Do they get injured ?


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## Corax (Oct 21, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> Don’t know why you guys try this hard
> 
> Kaido and Big Mom vs Sabo and the other Revo commanders
> 
> How does it go ? Do they get injured ?


BM gets captured as always. Kaido goes to negotiate with Dragon to save his damsel.


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## Sabco (Oct 21, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> Don’t know why you guys try this hard
> 
> Kaido and Big Mom vs Sabo and the other Revo commanders
> 
> How does it go ? Do they get injured ?



Well their durability is the best in the verse and Issho's isn't so they def not getting damaged. and they certainly not restricted to go all out and destroy the holy land either

Reactions: Like 2


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## Dellinger (Oct 21, 2019)

Edward-Teach said:


> Well their durability is the best in the verse and Issho's isn't so they def not getting damaged. and they certainly not restricted to go all out and destroy the holy land either


Kaido didn’t have to destroy anything to one shot Luffy. This logic doesn’t work


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## Corax (Oct 21, 2019)

Edward-Teach said:


> Well their durability is the best in the verse and Issho's isn't so they def not getting damaged. and they certainly not restricted to go all out and destroy the holy land either


This is also doesn't true. Sabo can use advanced CoA 2.0 (so called Ryo). Unless Luffy and Enma Zoro will spectacularly fail in the next 50-60 Wano chapters and won't be able to even scratch BM and Kaido Sabo should be able to wound them. The rest of revos are absolutely featless,so it isn't possible to say anything about them.


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## Dellinger (Oct 21, 2019)

Corax said:


> This is also doesn't true. Sabo can use advanced CoA 2.0 (so called Ryo). Unless Luffy and Enma Zoro will spectacularly fail in the next 50-60 Wano chapters and won't be able to even scratch BM and Kaido Sabo should be able to wound them. The rest of revos are absolutely featless,so it isn't possible to say anything about them.


Baseless. We don’t know how exactly Oden hurt Kaido and if Kaido can take no damage from Luffy then Sabo can’t do shit. He’ll get one shot too. Stop with your shitty posting, they are annoying


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## Corax (Oct 21, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> Baseless. We don’t know how exactly Oden hurt Kaido and if Kaido can take no damage from Luffy then Sabo can’t do shit. He’ll get one shot too. Stop with your shitty posting, they are annoying


Oden obviously used Ryo haki,unlike Luffy who couldn't use it at the start of Wano. It is quite clear after Hitetsu pointed it to Zoro. He said only samurai with great ryo haki aren't drained by Enma.


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## Dellinger (Oct 21, 2019)

Corax said:


> Oden obviously used Ryo haki,unlike Luffy who couldn't use it at the start of Wano. It is quite clear after Hitetsu pointed it to Zoro. He said only samurai with great ryo haki aren't drained by Enma.


Then why haven’t anyone else hurt him and Sabo somehow can ?


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## Corax (Oct 21, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> Then why haven’t anyone else hurt him and Sabo somehow can ?


Hurt  who?Kaido?Not many sword users can use ryo 2.0. I am pretty sure that Garp can wound Kaido,but his fists just won't leave any scars,same for Primebeard. Luffy will be able to wound him,but his attacks are blunt,so won't leave scars. Sabo can use ryo 2.0 so he also will be able to wound him.


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## Dellinger (Oct 21, 2019)

Corax said:


> Hurt  who?Kaido?Not many sword users can use ryo 2.0. I am pretty sure that Garp can wound Kaido,but his fists just won't leave any scars,same for Primebeard. Luffy will be able to wound him,but his attacks are blunt,so won't leave scars. Sabo can use ryo 2.0 so he also will be able to wound him.


WB also fights with a bisento and a weapon that is superior to Enma at that, Big Mom fights with a sword etc why didn’t they scar him ?


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## Corax (Oct 21, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> WB also fights with a bisento and a weapon that is superior to Enma at that, Big Mom fights with a sword etc why didn’t they scar him ?


They aren't confirmed Ryo 2.0 users. Also this puts BM in a very bad position,she couldn't scar base Kaido,unlike Oden. Though we all already know that she is quite weak for a top tier.


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## Steven (Oct 21, 2019)

Corax said:


> They aren't confirmed Ryo 2.0 users. Also this puts BM in a very bad position,she couldn't scar base Kaido,unlike Oden. Though we all already know that she is quite weak for a top tier.


Neither was Kaido able to harm BM

Whats your point

Oden is overrated as fuck,jesus christ


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## TheWiggian (Oct 21, 2019)

Acno said:


> Neither was Kaido able to harm BM
> 
> Whats your point



Queen and King did though

Reactions: Like 1


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## Steven (Oct 21, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Queen and King did though


No,they didnt


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## TheWiggian (Oct 21, 2019)

Acno said:


> No,they didnt



Well one drowned her resulting in amnesia and the other knocked her out and captured her. In both cases she was defeated 

Considered that Kaido's "L" record doesn't even look that bad considering how many "L's" the yonkou catch on a daily basis

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dellinger (Oct 21, 2019)

Corax said:


> They aren't confirmed Ryo 2.0 users. Also this puts BM in a very bad position,she couldn't scar base Kaido,unlike Oden. Though we all already know that she is quite weak for a top tier.


Yeah the strongest man in the world and rival if Roger couldn’t use advanced Haki but scrubs can. A 50 year veteran pirate in Big Mom also can’t





TheWiggian said:


> Well one drowned her resulting in amnesia and the other knocked her out and captured her. In both cases she was defeated
> 
> Considered that Kaido's "L" record doesn't even look that bad considering how many "L's" the yonkou catch on a daily basis


They didn’t come out injured like the Admirals though


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## Gianfi (Oct 21, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> Yeah the strongest man in the world and rival if Roger couldn’t use advanced Haki but scrubs can. A 50 year veteran pirate in Big Mom also can’t


 man, just give them a break, ever since Yonko started stomping YCs left and right they lost 99% of their arguments. That chapter about Fujitora and all was the last nail on the coffin. All that’s left now for them is trolling to avoid to address the subject, and negging, like the admiral gangsters have been doing a lot lately. Just let them be, the poll up there is pretty clear. You just risk they gang up on you and get negged for every thing you say

Reactions: Like 3


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## Kinjin (Oct 21, 2019)

Zoro and Luffy will injure and give Kaido a beatdown multiple times by the end of Wano but let's keep on about Fujitora's bandages 

Sabo is in the same tier as Luffy currently. Hell, we don't even know how that battle between the Admirals and Revos transpired yet you draw conclusions and present them as facts.

Reactions: Like 4


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## CaptainCommander (Oct 21, 2019)

Gianfi said:


> man, just give them a break, ever since Yonko started stomping YCs left and right they lost 99% of their arguments. That chapter about Fujitora and all was the last nail on the coffin. All that’s left now for them is trolling to avoid to address the subject, and negging, like the admiral gangsters have been doing a lot lately. Just let them be, the poll up there is pretty clear. You just risk they gang up on you and get negged for every thing you say



I don't mind the neg. At this point its like a medal at how often you upset admiral overestimation.


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## GreenBull956 (Oct 21, 2019)

Arles Celes said:


> So what is the new consensus on the admirals now?
> 
> Are they almost as strong as yonko but not quite so?
> 
> ...


idk what is the consensus , but i'm still 100% putting Logia Trio at Kaido/Shanks/Big Mom level , Fujitora may be a lvl below them

Ryokugyu can be anywhere from Fujitora's lvl to Logia Trio

Reactions: Like 2


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## GreenBull956 (Oct 21, 2019)

Corax said:


> Who said that Garp+Sengoku vs Shiki was high diff?


I think he based it on the destructions on half the Marineford .

But it's a very weak reasoning since of course a fight between 3 top tiers would cause some destructions , even if 2 ganged up on 1 like Garp and Sengoku did on Shiki .

It's not like Garp and Sengoku were strong enough to straight up one shot/No Diff him 

There was a panel showing a Marine Battleship stuck on Marineford building , that was obviously the result of Shiki's ability .

Still Aokiji's and Akainu's Extreme Diff fight altered a big island ( Punk Hazard >>>> Marineford ) , and made a hole at the middle of it which turned into a lake , so if Garp & Sengoku vs Shiki was indeed High Diff , the destructions/damages should've been way more than what was shown in chapter 0


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## Steven (Oct 21, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Well one drowned her resulting in amnesia and the other knocked her out and captured her. In both cases she was defeated
> 
> Considered that Kaido's "L" record doesn't even look that bad considering how many "L's" the yonkou catch on a daily basis


Queen was not match for DFless/Hakiless BM and King destroyed the ship ergo BM falls into water=GG for DF user

And Kaido has some pseudo L's,i cant deny that but thats still better than Fujis L's


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## TheWiggian (Oct 21, 2019)

Acno said:


> Queen was not match for DFless/Hakiless BM and King destroyed the ship ergo BM falls into water=GG for DF user
> 
> And Kaido has some pseudo L's,i cant deny that but thats still better than Fujis L's



There's no "L" for Fuji he is one of the few character's that accomplished something in the manga so far.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Steven (Oct 21, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> There's no "L" for Fuji he is one of the few character's that accomplished something in the manga so far.


Pushed back by G3 Ruffy is not some sort of L?At least a little l


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## TheWiggian (Oct 21, 2019)

Acno said:


> Pushed back by G3 Ruffy is not some sort of L?At least a little l



G3 destroyed Zoan form Kaidou and knocked him out of the sky is worse.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Corax (Oct 21, 2019)

Acno said:


> Pushed back by G3 Ruffy is not some sort of L?At least a little l


To be fair it is kinda strange to take something that minuscule as a L. Kaido in dragon form was pushed to the ground and pinned by G3 attacks and even a bit shaken,but won comfortably. Hardly it is a L.



GreenBull956 said:


> I think he based it on the destructions on half the Marineford .
> 
> But it's a very weak reasoning since of course a fight between 3 top tiers would cause some destructions , even if 2 ganged up on 1 like Garp and Sengoku did on Shiki .
> 
> ...


It is a strange way to determine diff . Fujitora can destroy Dressrosa sized islands completely,so for example if he just pulls his biggest asteroid and kills/beats Shiki and entire island it will be a high dif?


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 21, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> Don’t know why you guys try this hard
> 
> Kaido and Big Mom vs Sabo and the other Revo commanders
> 
> How does it go ? Do they get injured ?


Yonkou fans constantly mention that the relatively fodder Squardo did serious damage to WB when he stabbed him.


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## Sabco (Oct 21, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> Kaido didn’t have to destroy anything to one shot Luffy. This logic doesn’t work



No complicated "logic" is needed to explain the difference. Kaido and Big Mom fight well in close combat with their physical strength, they certainly won't destroy the holy land. meanwhile Issho relays on his gravity devil fruit which could cause mass destruction to the world government capital, casual moves like fierce tiger or a meteor would likely annihilate the gods domain for example. let alone his larger area of effect attacks. Kaido and Big Mom's durability are second to none, Issho's durability was never hyped. Kaido and Big Mom would could fight well enough in close combat. all of Issho's attacks were devil fruit attacks, mostly with large area of effect.


_"Do they get injured ?" _certainly no, since their fighting styles and attributes differ from Issho's. even though Fujitora only receiving minor injuries from the strongest on-panel Ryou that we've ever seen is an extremely impressive durability feat, Fujitora himself is not a durability focused fighter. Fujitora is busy pulling off bigger feats than all of the characters that you think is stronger than him as if it's nothing to him :


The Admirals have never been known just having god level durability (IE no one can actually hurt them) as all Admirals have taken injuries on panel. Perhaps most importantly, Issho has never been shown as someone who wants to defeat the Revolutionaries anyway, intentionally walking away from his fight with Sabo in Dressrosa, okay with the public perceiving the events as "Sabo stopped Fujitora".

Reactions: Like 2


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## Seraphoenix (Oct 21, 2019)

Corax said:


> To be fair it is kinda strange to take something that minuscule as a L. Kaido in dragon form was pushed to the ground and pinned by G3 attacks and even a bit shaken,but won comfortably. Hardly it is a L.
> 
> 
> It is a strange way to determine diff . Fujitora can destroy Dressrosa sized islands completely,so for example if he just pulls his biggest asteroid and kills/beats Shiki and entire island it will be a high dif?


Big difference between being pushed while on guard and straight up tanking with no attempt at blocking.


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## Steven (Oct 21, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Yes Kaidoh was blitzed, iam not holding it against the fake WSC in any way.


You cant blitz someone who is off-guard because he is drunken...it was clear from the beginning that he would hit Kaido.

Kaido tanked all of Ruffys G4 attacks without Haki/blocking at all.Fuji used his sword to block Ruffys G3 hits


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## TheWiggian (Oct 21, 2019)

Acno said:


> You cant blitz someone who is off-guard because he is drunken...it was clear from the beginning that he would hit Kaido.
> 
> Kaido tanked all of Ruffys G4 attacks without Haki/blocking at all.Fuji used his sword to block Ruffys G3 hits



Point is Kaido's dragon form was easily overpowered by G3 Luffy while same can't be said for Fuji.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dellinger (Oct 21, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Point is Kaido's dragon form was easily overpowered by G3 Luffy while same can't be said for Fuji.


I don’t remember Kaido trying to block Luffy I like Fujitora who tried and got pushed back


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## TheWiggian (Oct 21, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> I don’t remember Kaido trying to block Luffy I like Fujitora who tried and got pushed back



Kaido couldn't even react which is more embarrassing

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dellinger (Oct 21, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Kaido couldn't even react which is more embarrassing


Yeah that’s why he blitzes Luffy when he got pissed. Instead of taking it as a fact that Kaido just let Luffy get him with everything he has, you take it as Kaido not being capable to react

Are you stupid or what ?


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## TheWiggian (Oct 21, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> Yeah that’s why he blitzes Luffy when he got pissed. Instead of taking it as a fact that Kaido just let Luffy get him with everything he has, you take it as Kaido not being capable to react
> 
> Are you stupid or what ?



Bruv, Kaido looked worse against G3 than Fujitora and Meme

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiroryu (Oct 21, 2019)

When Gatz was hyping up King Punch, he was saying that it can KO “even a Yonko”.

Why not “even the Yonko and Admirals?”


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## TheWiggian (Oct 21, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> When Gatz was hyping up King Punch, he was saying that it can KO “even a Yonko”.
> 
> Why not “even the Yonko and Admirals?”



DCJ:

*Spoiler*: __ 








MC himself:

*Spoiler*: __ 








Mom Caramel:

*Spoiler*: __

Reactions: Like 1


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## Steven (Oct 21, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Point is Kaido's dragon form was easily overpowered by G3 Luffy while same can't be said for Fuji.


How was his dragonform overpowered by G3?They clashed not even once

1 divine thunder was enough to K.O. G4,while Fuji´s Meteor got blocked by Doffy and Law


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## Shiroryu (Oct 21, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> DCJ:
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...


That was DFless BM.

If the Marines considered Luffy a big enough threat, they could send multiple Admirals after him. You normally won’t fight multiple Yonko.

Besides, they were saying that you need to surpass Admirals and Yonko. Doesn’t mean that surpassing one is equivalent to surpassing another


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## TheWiggian (Oct 21, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> That was DFless BM.
> 
> If the Marines considered Luffy a big enough threat, they could send multiple Admirals after him. You normally won’t fight multiple Yonko.
> 
> Besides, they were saying that you need to surpass Admirals and Yonko. Doesn’t mean that surpassing one is equivalent to surpassing another



So you have nothing against those panels argumentwise? 

Iam sure as hell the homies will be useful against top tiers if characters like Nami and Brook can bury them  

Kizaru wanted to go against 2 yonks guess he is >>> a yonk individually  

Oda: "Admirals and Yonko are an obstacle on the way to PK and you need to beat both". 

Oda also: "Gotta mention them multiple times in the same breath to dissolve confusion for the fans but won't answer powerlevels directly to keep the hype going". 

Yonk fans: "Doesn’t mean that surpassing one is equivalent to surpassing another".


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## Corax (Oct 22, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> Big difference between being pushed while on guard and straight up tanking with no attempt at blocking.


Fujitora was attacked from behind,he wasn't on guard obviously. Kaido was in his giant dragon form and still not strong enough to resist and stay in the air. He was overpowered and pinned to the ground.


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## Seraphoenix (Oct 22, 2019)

Corax said:


> Fujitora was attacked from behind,he wasn't on guard obviously. Kaido was in his giant dragon form and still not strong enough to resist and stay in the air. He was overpowered and pinned to the ground.



Luffy calls out to Fujitora, Fuji notices him, turns around and then Luffy attacks him with Fujitora blocking with his sword.

You: *"Fujitora was attacked from behind,he wasn't on guard obviously"*

I see we're outright lying now like the manga panels can't be posted.

Kaido made no attempt to block. Obviously he would be moved then as the only factor would be if Elephant gun was strong enough to move that body of weight with no resistance.

They are not nearly the same situation.


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## Louis-954 (Oct 22, 2019)

It's almost as if you people expect top-tiers to all be capable of the same feats of strength and durability and you use 


TheWiggian said:


> So you have nothing against those panels argumentwise?
> 
> Iam sure as hell the homies will be useful against top tiers if characters like Nami and Brook can bury them
> 
> ...


Yeah dude, I'm SURE Kizaru's plan was to pull up in Wano all by himself and directly challenge two Yonko to a fight.


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## Corax (Oct 22, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> Luffy calls out to Fujitora, Fuji notices him, turns around and then Luffy attacks him with Fujitora blocking with his sword.
> 
> You: *"Fujitora was attacked from behind,he wasn't on guard obviously"*
> 
> ...


He wasn't on guard he turned and blocked that attack at the last moment. And  dragon Kaido was pushed and pinned to the ground twice. First when Luffy attacked him from above,second time after he dodged his breath attack twice and used G3 gattling to pin him to the ground. After it Kaido had to cancel his dragon form. Obviously he was aware about Luffy's presence, attacked him and missed.


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## Steven (Oct 22, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Iam sure as hell the homies will be useful against top tiers if characters like Nami and Brook can bury them
> 
> Kizaru wanted to go against 2 yonks guess he is >>> a yonk individually


Nami has manipulation against them and brook is hardcounter due to his fruit


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## TheWiggian (Oct 22, 2019)

Acno said:


> Nami has manipulation against them and brook is hardcounter due to his fruit



So you seriously suggest homies can do something against the highest calibre of titans out in the OP world?



You gotta search deeper in the bag of excuses bro. So far it doesn't look good for her.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Steven (Oct 22, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> So you seriously suggest homies can do something against the highest calibre of titans out in the OP world?
> 
> 
> 
> You gotta search deeper in the bag of excuses bro. So far it doesn't look good for her.


Napoleon can hold against Kaido.

Poseidon is hardcounter against DF user

And Haki is useless against the homies.You need brooks DF


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## TheWiggian (Oct 22, 2019)

Acno said:


> Napoleon can hold against Kaido.
> 
> Poseidon is hardcounter against DF user
> 
> And Haki is useless against the homies.You need brooks DF



Napoleon is a sword infused with her soul it's not just her DF 

Poseidon is useless on land, also it was peros candy 

We haven’t seen if Haki is useless against them or not 

What we saw is that King baum was bisected by Meme's flying slash so your argument is baseless that they can't be hurt by other chars than Brook.


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## TheWiggian (Oct 22, 2019)

Looks like @Dellinger conceded, i don't blame him tbh tbf

Reactions: Like 1


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## Seraphoenix (Oct 22, 2019)

Corax said:


> He wasn't on guard he turned and blocked that attack at the last moment. And  dragon Kaido was pushed and pinned to the ground twice. First when Luffy attacked him from above,second time after he dodged his breath attack twice and used G3 gattling to pin him to the ground. After it Kaido had to cancel his dragon form. Obviously he was aware about Luffy's presence, attacked him and missed.


So you are shifting your position from ''got attacked from behind" now that I've shown the manga panel?

He turned, then Luffy said ''I am going to punch you'', then he punched him. He had more than enough time to be on guard. the fact that he blocked with his sword shows he was on guard. Or is he so slow that despite calling out to him and saying he was going to punch him, all the while being a distance away, he couldn't be on guard?? Are you really going to make an admiral such a joke to try to make these scenarios look remotely similar 

Luffy attacked a drunk Kaido that didn't bother to fight back. Do you see him blocking any attack or just taking it?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Corax (Oct 22, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Napoleon is a sword infused with her soul it's not just her DF
> 
> Poseidon is useless on land, also it was peros candy
> 
> ...


Btw what is Poseidon?Some headcanon homie she found during her famous underwater adventure?


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## TheWiggian (Oct 22, 2019)

Corax said:


> Btw what is Poseidon?Some headcanon homie she found during her famous underwater adventure?



The wave Peros slug was riding on seems to be a homie but it's useless on land.


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## Cursemark (Oct 22, 2019)

Kinjin said:


> Zoro and Luffy will injure and give Kaido a beatdown multiple times by the end of Wano but let's keep on about Fujitora's bandages


Yall keep bringing this up like it changes anything.

Even if they do that'll just mean that they'll be able to wreck the admirals with the same attacks they use to hurt Kaido since Kaido's durability is miles ahead of theirs.

That'll also mean they have Yonko+ level attack power. Not even Roger or Garp managed to injure Kaido/BM to a significant degree nor were they able to injure each other.

That's a win for Luffy/Zoro, not a win for the admirals or an L for the Yonko lmao.


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## TheWiggian (Oct 22, 2019)

Cursemark said:


> Yall keep bringing this up like it changes anything.
> 
> Even if they do that'll just mean that they'll be able to wreck the admirals with the same attacks they use to hurt Kaido since Kaido's durability is miles ahead of theirs.
> 
> ...



It doesn't matter. Admirals and Yonko sit in the same boat. It just means both fractions will be surpassed by our protagonists

Reactions: Like 2


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## Red Admiral (Oct 22, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> It doesn't matter. Admirals and Yonko sit in the same boat. It just means both fractions will be surpassed by our protagonists



Yonko are Emperors of their own lands and top of their own world chart

Admirals are solders of some one who is a solder of some one else who answer to some other people who kneel before another person

how they are sitting in same boat?


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## TheWiggian (Oct 22, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Yonko are Emperors of their own lands and top of their own world chart
> 
> Admirals are solders of some one who is a solder of some one else who answer to some other people who kneel before another person
> 
> how they are sitting in same boat?



Bro you're basically asking why Emperor's are called Emperor's and why an Admiral is called by it's military rank 

You want me to project my dirty fantasies right next to yours? 

That's lewd my niqqa, iam not gonna do it


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## Red Admiral (Oct 22, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Bro you're basically asking why Emperor's are called Emperor's and why an Admiral is called by it's military rank
> 
> You want me to project my dirty fantasies right next to yours?
> 
> That's lewd my niqqa, iam not gonna do it



no ... I'm saying they are not in same boat

Admirals are just solders ... a fact people need to remember ...

it's fine if people consider Akainu in same boat with Yonko ... but all admirals?! ... I rather read a funny joke


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## TheWiggian (Oct 22, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> no ... I'm saying they are not in same boat
> 
> Admirals are just solders ... a fact people need to remember ...
> 
> it's fine if people consider Akainu in same boat with Yonko ... but all admirals?! ... I rather read a funny joke





Here read through this and you might realize that Admirals don't differ much from Yonko.


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## Red Admiral (Oct 22, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Here read through this and you might realize that Admirals don't differ much from Yonko.



- do Yonko answer to any power ?
- do Yonko have a kingdom?
- do Yonko have a army of their own ?
- do Yonko are bound to any law ?

I don't know what is your standard for word "MUCH" but this are kinda a big much

go read wiki more , maybe it can give you a set of mind about some words

Yonko are currently have highest throne of power in pirate world
Admirals have 5th rank in WG


if this is not "much" to you ... then I guess Helmeppo and admirals on't differ much from each other 




compering a solder to an emperor is an insult to logic


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## Shiroryu (Oct 22, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Yonko are Emperors of their own lands and top of their own world chart
> 
> Admirals are solders of some one who is a solder of some one else who answer to some other people who kneel before another person
> 
> how they are sitting in same boat?


Admirals = Yonko because Chinjao and Luffy mentioned them in the same sentence. Even though:

None of the Admirals have WS titles
Sengoku thought that they could lose at MF even with 3 Admirals
Garp said they couldnt fight Rayleigh and WB at the same time
Gatz said that King Punch could KO "even a Yonko." Not "even a Yonko or Admiral," implying that KOing a Yonko is more impressive
Kizaru said he alone can't capture Rayleigh
Rayleigh thinks that he could fight Kizaru + Kuma + Sentomaru in his prime
Garp doesn't know how the Marines can handle Kaido/BM alliance
Coward Orochi doesn't give a darn about the Marines because he has Kaido's support
Base Kaido easily one shots Luffy while Marco was smiling after taking Kizaru's strongest shown attack
O-Lin trashes a YC2 faster than Aokiji did, and Aokiji needed a distraction to do so
Sabo and 3 people weaker than Iva give 2 Admirals multiple bruises and fight them for a while

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheWiggian (Oct 22, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> - do Yonko answer to any power ?



Yes they're tied with each other and don't know there is a king of the world, they think they're the big shots because no one knows of IM's existence. 



Red Admiral said:


> - do Yonko have a kingdom?



Yes each of them rules over a few islands. 



Red Admiral said:


> - do Yonko have a army of their own ?


Yep they have their crews and some allies at their disposal just like the Admirals.



Red Admiral said:


> - do Yonko are bound to any law ?



What do you not understand between being a pirate and marine?
They're bound by territory of others.



Red Admiral said:


> I don't know what is your standard for word "MUCH" but this are kinda a big much



Nope it reflects Yonko - Admirals perfectly:

WSM WB - FA Sengoku 
Kaido - Sakazuki
Big Mom - Aokiji
Shanks - Kizaru

or

Kaido - FA Sakazuki 
Big Mom - Fujitora
Shanks - Kizaru
BB - Ryokugyu 

Shichibukai/SSG balances out allies



Red Admiral said:


> go read wiki more , maybe it can give you a set of mind about some words



I gave you the wiki for some realistic structure of the military since you clearly have no clue what is going on outside your bubble paradise.



Red Admiral said:


> Yonko are currently have highest throne of power in pirate world
> Admirals have 5th rank in WG



Yonko are part of the balance of the world - 3 great pillars of power so they don't have any privileges in any way and next comes that they all will fall and fail.



Red Admiral said:


> if this is not "much" to you ... then I guess Helmeppo and admirals on't differ much from each other



Guess you didn't read anything if you think that. It's your choice to die clueless.



Red Admiral said:


> compering a solder to an emperor is an insult to logic





_*Military ranks* are a system of  relationships in , ,  or other institutions organized along military lines. The military rank system defines dominance, authority, and responsibility in a military hierarchy. It incorporates the principles of exercising power and authority into the military  – the succession of commanders superior to subordinates through which command is exercised.
_


Shiroryu said:


> Admirals = Yonko because Chinjao and Luffy mentioned them in the same sentence. Even though:
> 
> None of the Admirals have WS titles
> Sengoku thought that they could lose at MF even with 3 Admirals
> ...



Yea Marine totally got defeated in MF and WB still lives. 


And the remaining WB forces were shook from the war against the marines to the point of getting overwhelmingly defeated by BB.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Red Admiral (Oct 22, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Yes they're tied with each other and don't know there is a king of the world, they think they're the big shots because no one knows of IM's existence.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



wow ... never seem some one try to prove himself right when he is OBVIOUSLY wrong

let's low diff you once more 


they the kings of the New World ... some where Imu never ruled and never will
lol ... few islands? try majority of new world , with this logic Imu rule over red line only ... don't insult yourself at least 
lol ... stupid thing to hear ... admirals don't have any army of their own nor allies ... admirals are not WG 
lol ... admirals are slaves of law and kings of the world 
lol ... admirals are solders not the kings ... lol
god are you that stupid or you are playing stupid ... you are compering real world to one piece world ?!!! sigh ... admirals are salves to CD and Gorosei ... 


if you want to waste other people time with BS ... at least try to use a BS that seem good ...

WG Chart : in OP world ...


Imu
Gorosei
Kings
Kong
Fleet Admiral
Admiral 

Pirate world chart


Yonko
the end 


if some one can't even understand a super basic thing as admirals are not kings of WG and salves to Gorosei ... I'm done with this ...

there is a limit to BS


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## Red Admiral (Oct 22, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> Admirals = Yonko because Chinjao and Luffy mentioned them in the same sentence. Even though:
> 
> None of the Admirals have WS titles
> Sengoku thought that they could lose at MF even with 3 Admirals
> ...



admirals lost the Admrials Vs Yonk war ever since the Wano ...

Yonko > admiral is as obvios as hell ... I don't even care if some fan boys deny it ... let them be ... who give a shit?

the real answer is : how big is the gap

for now it's like : bigger by each chapter


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## TheWiggian (Oct 22, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> wow ... never seem some one try to prove himself right when he is OBVIOUSLY wrong
> 
> let's low diff you once more
> 
> ...



Let's break it down to someone who hangs behind:

1. Empty throne > located in the middle/center of the planet/world and is guarded by the 20 weapons that resemble the founding kingdoms of the throne.
2. As long as the throne is unoccupied the world is at peace > reader's know it is occupied so there is a king of the world called "IM".
3. Yonkou who are part of the world are being ruled over by him like everyone else they simply don't know because no one knows of "IM" existence, it's kept as a secret, shut down from the world.
4. Your beloved yonkou are not at peace because they're not free at all. They're trapped in a genjutsu 
5. If you don't know what is going on in One Piece don't embarrass yourself for the sake of responding just because you can't get over the fact that everyone sits in the same boat and only the strawhats will free everyone.

Reactions: Like 4


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## OVER 9000 (Oct 22, 2019)

Whitebeard challenged the Marines with his crew and they gave a good fight to admirals. Then Shanks just crashed the party and made the Marines retreat. 2 yonkou crews ≥ admirals. Yonkou bests admirals.


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## Shiroryu (Oct 22, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Yes they're tied with each other and don't know there is a king of the world, they think they're the big shots because no one knows of IM's existence.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I like how you counter my post by countering an argument that I didn’t make

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiroryu (Oct 22, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> admirals lost the Admrials Vs Yonk war ever since the Wano ...
> 
> Yonko > admiral is as obvios as hell ... I don't even care if some fan boys deny it ... let them be ... who give a shit?
> 
> ...


The Admiralbase arguments are:

1. Luffy said he needs to surpass Yonko and Admirals therefore surpassing one equals surpassing the other. There’s also the fact that the Marines can easily deploy multiple Admirals after Luffy while multiple Yonko going after Luffy is much less likely (BM and Kaido alliance only happened because of special circumstances), so the Admirals teamwork can make them more dangerous. Oda might have also meant that Luffy needs to surpass the strongest Pirates and strongest Marines (with Yonko = strongest Pirates and Admirals = strongest Marines). This doesn’t mean that strongest Pirates = strongest Marines. This statement is too vague to be definitive proof.

And this is it. This is the only decent argument lol. The rest are either troll arguments (Queen/King low diffing BM, Shanks losing his arm to fish, WB being a patient during MF) or false equivalences (comparing Fuji and Ryo who had to hold back their DF powers a bit at Mary Geoise to BM who didn’t even have her DF at all, as well as no Haki, weapon, or memories). The funny thing is that O-Lin still looked better than Reverie Fuji/Ryo lmao

Yonko = high top tier
Admiral = mid top tier
Old Legends/Beckman/Weevil/Luffy = low top tier


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## Red Admiral (Oct 22, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> The Admiralbase arguments are:
> 
> 1. Luffy said he needs to surpass Yonko and Admirals therefore surpassing one equals surpassing the other. There’s also the fact that the Marines can easily deploy multiple Admirals after Luffy while multiple Yonko going after Luffy is much less likely (BM and Kaido alliance only happened because of special circumstances), so the Admirals teamwork can make them more dangerous. Oda might have also meant that Luffy needs to surpass the strongest Pirates and strongest Marines (with Yonko = strongest Pirates and Admirals = strongest Marines). This doesn’t mean that strongest Pirates = strongest Marines. This statement is too vague to be definitive proof.
> 
> ...


I assume more like ...

Yonko are top top tiers
logia admirals are high top tier
new admirals are mid top tiers (and Garp and Benn Beckman)
rest of old legends are low top tier and end of wano Luffy


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## Shiroryu (Oct 22, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> I assume more like ...
> 
> Yonko are top top tiers
> logia admirals are high top tier
> ...


Imo PK level is top top tier

Yonko high top tier 

Logia Admirals = New Admirals = mid top tier. I don’t see why the C3 should be above Fuji/Ryo. Aokiji/Kizaru’s performance against Marco/Jozu was similar to Fuji/Ryo vs Revs.

Garp is probably still mid top tier. Maybe Beckman and Weevil too but idk.

Current Luffy is low top tier, along with Rayleigh and Sengoku and probably Beckman/Weevil. Luffy was on the same level as Katakuri by the end of WCI (Katakuri himself said this so you can’t deny it). Maybe Kata was slightly stronger but Luffy’s Udon strength boost + improving his FS definitely put him as at worst = Katakuri and thus solid YC1. Him becoming proficient with Adv CoA (not fully mastered yet) moved him up to low top tier. He will be mid top tier by the end of Wano when he masters Adv CoA and improved his base stats more


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## Shiroryu (Oct 22, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> let's read together
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Don’t forget that the databooks didn’t even say that Magu = the best AP among DFs. It said one of the best among DFs. This means that others are on its tier (like Hie, Zushi, Gura, Ope, Pika, etc) and it’s not clear which one is the best



Shiba D. Inu said:


> yup
> 
> glad you see it
> 
> so them yonkous better not get hit with any meigous .. they may not have WBs endurance and damage soak to go on


Meigo does nothing to Kaido/BM. Akainu better pull out his Awakening unless he wants to embarrass himself against them


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## Steven (Oct 22, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Napoleon is a sword infused with her soul it's not just her DF
> 
> Poseidon is useless on land, also it was peros candy
> 
> ...


Napoleon is a made out of BM´s df and is connected with her strength

Irrelevant,she can turn water into a homie

It was said that only brook can harm them.

King Baum got casual bisected via normal airslash...not even with full power.Yet we know BM can keep up with Kaido physical.And both have over the top Dura.No Admiral is physical so strong


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## TheWiggian (Oct 22, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> I like how you counter my post by countering an argument that I didn’t make



You had no argument so i just made fun out of you. 



Shiroryu said:


> The Admiralbase arguments are:
> 
> 1. Luffy said he needs to surpass Yonko and Admirals therefore surpassing one equals surpassing the other. There’s also the fact that the Marines can easily deploy multiple Admirals after Luffy while multiple Yonko going after Luffy is much less likely (BM and Kaido alliance only happened because of special circumstances), so the Admirals teamwork can make them more dangerous. Oda might have also meant that Luffy needs to surpass the strongest Pirates and strongest Marines (with Yonko = strongest Pirates and Admirals = strongest Marines). This doesn’t mean that strongest Pirates = strongest Marines. This statement is too vague to be definitive proof.
> 
> ...



Oh we also have admirals fighting equally against the strongest Yonkou in MF which Yonk fans try to delete from their subconcious when debating in threads like these because you guys know Sengoku's words > yours. 

But let's forget MF for a second and come back to your lovely point 1. All you did there is repeat the argument without refuting it in any way except: "Strongest marines can't be = Strongest pirates" 

Plus you can't find shit as excuse why your beloved yonks got taken out by YC characters multiple times except: "Troll arguments"




Acno said:


> Napoleon is a made out of BM´s df and is connected with her strength



I looked it up again and it's a hat turned into a homie + occasionally covered in haki 



Acno said:


> Irrelevant,she can turn water into a homie



Yes he is irrelevant because she can't use him with no water around 



Acno said:


> It was said that only brook can harm them.
> 
> King Baum got casual bisected via normal airslash...not even with full power.
> Yet we know BM can keep up with Kaido physical.



So not only Brook huh? 



Acno said:


> And both have over the top Dura.
> No Admiral is physical so strong



Iam sure if the admirals can trade blows equally with the strongest yonkou who is said to wield world destructing powers they can fight the weaker yonkou too. That would be a headache to prove they're stronger than WB  good luck bro

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiroryu (Oct 22, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> Don’t forget that the databooks didn’t even say that Magu = the best AP among DFs. It said one of the best among DFs. This means that others are on its tier (like Hie, Zushi, Gura, Ope, Pika, etc) and it’s not clear which one is the best


Love how @Blade took away 26000 rep points for this post even though it’s literally just me giving the proper translation



TheWiggian said:


> You had no argument so i just made fun out of you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Admiralbase has no arguments. Just memes and trolling.

Y’all are literally the 4chan/alt-right of One Piece


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## Gohara (Oct 22, 2019)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Look at all of their abilities.
> 
> 1) the 3 from the start of the series all have logins. They have the most powerful of the 3 types of Devil Fruits.
> 
> ...



True, however there are a lot of characters with those abilities and/or some of the most powerful devil fruit abilities in the series that aren't around the same league as the yonkou.

Yonkou commanders inferior to high ranking yonkou commanders have matched up for half of that, and a 3rd yonkou commander has matched up for half of that without a problem.

True, however there are a lot of characters who have achieved those forms of devil fruits that aren't around the same league as the yonkou.

Akainu is using his devil fruit abilities combined with his physical strength and that is also a significantly nerfed version of Whitebeard's character.  Kaidou and Linlin's character have both shown significantly superior physical strength to that version of Whitebeard's character.

Some of the most powerful offensive abilities, true.  However some of the yonkou have shown that also in addition to more impressive defense and haki than what we've seen from Akainu thus far.

True although that is a significantly nerfed version of Whitebeard's character.

Based on what?

Anticipating opponents' moves is something that characters without that impressive of observation haki can do.  Oda introducing that impressive of observation haki with Lord Katakuri implies that such is the first time that we've seen that impressive of observation haki used.

True, however Akainu is fleet admiral, and there is also a possibility that there are a couple main antagonists that are more of main antagonists than Akainu.

I agree, however there are a lot of characters who can use king's haki who aren't around the same league as the yonkou.

The admirals are some of the most powerful characters outside of the yonkou ranking I agree, however I don't think that any of those points necessarily imply that they are around the same league as the yonkou.


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## Gohara (Oct 22, 2019)

Lee-Sensei said:


> t seemed pretty casual. Aokiji at his best froze the sea between two islands.



Wouldn't that logic imply that anything that Aokiji freezes that is bigger than a character is more powerful than the ice used to freeze a character?  So then, would that automatically suggest that the technique that vice admiral Aokiji uses against Saul is superior to the technique that Aokiji uses against Jozu?


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## GreenBull956 (Oct 22, 2019)

Cursemark said:


> Not even Roger or Garp managed to injure Kaido/BM to a significant degree


? baseless


Cursemark said:


> Even if they do that'll just mean that they'll be able to wreck the admirals with the same attacks they use to hurt Kaido since Kaido's durability is miles ahead of theirs.


Akainu survived 2 bloodlusted Quakes , with the first he took off guard

If they damage Kaido this arc they'll be able to damage Admirals yes though , but they have to land them which will be difficult

Reactions: Like 2


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 22, 2019)

Gohara said:


> Wouldn't that logic imply that anything that Aokiji freezes that is bigger than a character is more powerful than the ice used to freeze a character?  So then, would that automatically suggest that the technique that vice admiral Aokiji uses against Saul is superior to the technique that Aokiji uses against Jozu?


Not necessarily. My point is that, we weren’t even seeing his full power. Aokiji and Akainu permanently changed the weather at Punk Hazard. One side is frozen and one side is burning.


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## TheWiggian (Oct 22, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> Admiralbase has no arguments. Just memes and trolling.
> 
> Y’all are literally the 4chan/alt-right of One Piece



Your headcanon is not a manga fact. If you want to prove your point you bring some arguments, just saying: "X and Y has no arguments, just memes and trolling"  isn't going to convince people.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Shiroryu (Oct 22, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Your headcanon is not a manga fact. If you want to prove your point you bring some arguments, just saying: "X and Y has no arguments, just memes and trolling"  isn't going to convince people.


Stop posting memes and troll posts if you don’t want me to say that you only have memes and trolling. You never countered anything I said and just resorted to shitposting


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## TheWiggian (Oct 22, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> Stop posting memes and troll posts if you don’t want me to say that you only have memes and trolling. You never countered anything I said and just resorted to shitposting



You have no argument to begin with. You shit on admirals by saying they are as powerful as YC's - FM's + but complain and cry for your pacifier because you can't do shit about your yonks getting embarrassed by YC's and characters far weaker than them. You're a hypocrite my friend and the real troll here.



btw that red fits trolls good

Reactions: Like 2


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## Shiroryu (Oct 22, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> You have no argument to begin with. You shit on admirals by saying they are as powerful as YC's - FM's + but complain and cry for your pacifier because you can't do shit about your yonks getting embarrassed by YC's and characters far weaker than them. You're a hypocrite my friend and the real troll here.
> 
> 
> 
> btw that red fits trolls good


Once again making up arguments that I never made.

I think that Admiral = YC1 + YC2 + YC3

Literally all you have is lies/straw mans. You’re pathetic

Not hard to get a red bar when you upset neckbeards/trolls that take away 20k rep from you whenever they get the chance to

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sherlōck (Oct 23, 2019)

How fucking pathetic one has to be to say Roger was afraid of Meme or Garp/Roger wouldn't be able to injure Kaido/Meme?

Especially when they beat their captain or that those characters will get beat by YC1/YC2/YC3 combination not much later in this arc?


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## Corax (Oct 23, 2019)

Myth that yonko did better vs YC is a myth. Complete breakdown of yonko vs YC.
*Shanks:*
-Scarred by Teach (at that time WB's yonko commander). Scar is on his face,so he was in a fair fight,also he warned WB about Teach's strengh,so he considers him a worthy opponent. Result is unknown (possibly Shanks won).
*BM (the most embarassing)*:
-Couldn't harm Jinbei both while healthy (during tea party) and in hunger rage state (on Sunny). Was thrown away, also her homie was trolled by Jinbei.Jinbei is former WB's comander.
-King blitzed her and her crew (she barely could say "King?!"),which resulted in her underwater adventure and amnesia. Later she was used as plot device in Udon.
-Queen. Finished his older brother's work and chained her. First YC to beat a yonko (though through PIS,but result remains the same).
*Kaido (second best)*:
-Easily defeated Luffy after a brief (chapter or so long) fight.
-Defeated Oden in a hard fight,has a huge memorable scar after it. Much like Zoro's/Luffy's memorable scars. Important fight. Likely was his hardest YC fight.
-Though they aren't YC,but Oden's retainers. Asura Doji and Denjiro escaped from him unharmed. They were at least capable of holding vs his dragon form and escaping.
*Teach (the best)*:
-Defeated Ace in a mid. diff fight or so (borderline hard).
-Stomped Marco in a yonko title match.
-Killed Tatch (though he back stabbed him to steal Yami).

Reactions: Like 2


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 23, 2019)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Not necessarily. My point is that, we weren’t even seeing his full power. Aokiji and Akainu permanently changed the weather at Punk Hazard. One side is frozen and one side is burning.





Sherlōck said:


> How fucking pathetic one has to be to say Roger was afraid of Meme or Garp/Roger wouldn't be able to injure Kaido/Meme?
> 
> Especially when they beat their captain or that those characters will get beat by YC1/YC2/YC3 combination not much later in this arc?


The Yonkou are overrated IMO. Whitebeard was on Rogers level in his prime and he was still at a bare minimum, competitive with the Emperors when he was sick and old. There’s no question that Roger was stronger than them before his death.


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## Steven (Oct 23, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> You had no argument so i just made fun out of you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Napoleon is a part from BM's soul like zeus and co. And maybe the strongest Homie(best feats for now but maybe im wrong,ofc i cant prove it)

True,but if water is around,which is allways the case,because every place is a island,she can use it.BM is not BB(Fight style)

Nobody in MF was able to overpower or block bloodlusted WB's attacks.Akainu survived them but was not~BLWB

Its common sense that Kaido and BM has over the top Dura.

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheWiggian (Oct 23, 2019)

Acno said:


> Napoleon is a part from BM's soul like zeus and co. And maybe the strongest Homie(best feats for now but maybe im wrong,ofc i cant prove it)
> 
> True,but if water is around,which is allways the case,because every place is a island,she can use it.BM is not BB(Fight style)
> 
> ...



Yea thats nice her homies are still useless. She can't harm her opponents with them. How is the water homie moving on land bro? 

Akainu survived the WSM's attacks and was fine fighting afterwards. Big Mom and Kaido survived what again? Some fodder attacks, the best they were able to is tank mid end G4 attacks. Also theres a way around their so overwhelming defense as we saw numerous times of Big Mom being injured and Kaido having one of the largest scars a character has if not the largest.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Oct 23, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Let's break it down to someone who hangs behind:
> 
> 1. Empty throne > located in the middle/center of the planet/world and is guarded by the 20 weapons that resemble the founding kingdoms of the throne.
> 2. As long as the throne is unoccupied the world is at peace > reader's know it is occupied so there is a king of the world called "IM".
> ...



1- New World >>>>>> rest of the world ...
2- throne is as peace cause Imu don't have the balls to touch it , Imu want Teach dead and he can't even do that
3- and that Imu can't do anything to Yonko
4- they are free to do what ever the fuck they want to do
5- I know what is going on but it's seem your IQ is not high enough to understnad anything ...

Zoro wank and admiral wank make you so blind you can't even use logic any more

Yonko are Kings of the seas
Imu is the king of rest of world

a king is on a same boat with another king

admirals are some solders who just like your god mihawk can get fired and be a fucking nobody in a single day

and they can't fucking do anything ...

to take down a Yonko a world war is the least you need


3 admirals were assembled to fight 1 Yonko ...
even thinking what 3 Yonko would do to 1 admiral is funny



TheWiggian said:


> Your headcanon is not a manga fact. If you want to prove your point you bring some arguments, just saying: "X and Y has no arguments, just memes and trolling"  isn't going to convince people.



I don't think you have the right to even call a real troll a "troll"

your arguments are head canon
your logic is insults
your manners are worsts than then all

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheWiggian (Oct 23, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> 1- New World >>>>>> rest of the world ...
> 2- throne is as peace cause Imu don't have the balls to touch it , Imu want Teach dead and he can't even do that
> 3- and that Imu can't do anything to Yonko
> 4- they are free to do what ever the fuck they want to do
> ...



Bro lol New world is a part of the planet which gets ruled over by IM lol you dont even understand what you read lol


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## Red Admiral (Oct 23, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Bro lol New world is a part of the planet which gets ruled over by IM lol you dont even understand what you read lol



and you talking

RULING :

an authoritative decision or pronouncement, especially one made by a judge.
currently exercising authority or influence.


Imu have ZERO POWER in the new world therefore ... Imu have no power over Yonko ...

please use your so called brain and tell me how Imu is ruling over New World when Yonko are doing that?!

Imu being a public face or not got nothing to do with argument as well since Imu be either can't and won't change the simple fact of " Yonko rule the New world and Yonko alone"

the the fucking ruling means if Imu can't fucking rule?!


what are you smoking ... please ... it's must be good and I want some of it

or at least learn the basics of how an argument work


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## GreenBull956 (Oct 23, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Yonko are Kings of the seas
> Imu is the king of rest of world


Marines reigns supreme in seas , stated by Doflamingo in chapter 801


Red Admiral said:


> a king is on a same boat with another king


I don't think they are in the same class because they are Kings , Imu is the man who is above Marines and 7 Warlords and Crews , who were allied to counterbalance those Emperors

The Marine that includes Yonko/4 Emperors parallels in Fleet Admiral Akainu and 3 Admirals Kizaru-Fujitora-Ryokugyu 

The 7 Warlords and Crews that included World's Strongest Swordsman Mihawk , who used to duel Shanks who later became an Emperor 

Other than Marines and 7 Warlords and Crews , he is also above : 
- Five Elders ( who have been described as the greatest power/authority in the world thrice )
- Commander in Chief Kong ( also a former Fleet Admiral )
- Impel Down staff ( including Magellan ) 
- CP 0 - 9 , CP 0 = the Most Powerful/Strongest Intelligence Organization in the World
- 170 Countries who're World Government's Allies
- Police 


Red Admiral said:


> 3 admirals were assembled to fight 1 Yonko ...


And his crew

But actually they were supposed to guard the Ace execution platform , while 7 Warlords and Marines other than 5 strongest Marines backed them up , that was the plan of the war , stated by Doflamingo 


This plan was definitely prepared by Marine's strategists , Sengoku and Tsuru

There is also this : "5 Warlords ready to decide the outcome of the battle"


So now we know the 7 Warlords were supposed to fight Whitebeard Pirates ......
but what is the role of Marines here ? I'm gonna start with 5 strongest Marines 
( Sengoku-Akainu-Aokiji-Kizaru-Garp )

First , the 3 Admirals were supposed to guard the Ace execution platform


Also Akainu implied that the 3 Admirals were supposed to guard the platform


Even that box for 3 Admirals above said they were meant to guard it

Now the role of 3 Admirals done , what is Garp's and Sengoku's role ? clearly they were meant to guard the platform as well , they were on it even after 3 Admirals went out to battle Whitebeard Pirates 

So the role of 5 strongest Marines done , now what is the role of the rest of Marines ? i think they were supposed to back 7 Warlords vs Whitebeard Pirates and 43 Allies , this is obvious imo , because 7 Warlords without their Crews aren't as strong as Whitebeard Pirates + 43 Allies

I'll list the matchups : 
- Mihawk vs Whitebeard 
- Yami Teach vs Marco
- Doflamingo vs Jozu
- Kuma vs Vista
- Hancock vs another Commander
- Jinbe vs another Commander
- Moria vs Curiel

- 8 Marine Giants Squad ( Ronse , Lacroix and 6 others ) vs Oars Jr.

- 5 Buster Call Vice Admirals , John Giant , Tsuru , Stainless , Dalmatian , Bastille - in total 10 Vice Admirals

vs 
8 other Whitebeard Commanders

• 7 other Vice Admirals ( Cancer , Mozambia , Draw , Nazu Ketagari , Comil , Maynard )
• 5 Rear Admirals ( Hina , Catacombo , Akehende , Sicily , Kadar )
• 4 Commodores ( Pre TS Smoker , Daigin , Yarisugi , Brannew )
• 6 Marine Captains ( T Bone , Shu , Sharinguru , Very Good , Gorilla , Nezumi )
• Others = Pre TS Tashigi , Coby , Helmeppo , Science Captain Sentomaru , Garp's right hand man Bogard , 20 Pacifistas , 100.000 Marine Soldiers

vs 
43 Whitebeard Allies minus Oars Jr. 
( already got matched up with Marines' Giants above )


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## GreenBull956 (Oct 23, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Imu have ZERO POWER in the new world


The new Marine Headquarters is in the New World , G-5 ( was led by Vergo , Smoker is here as well ) is also in New World


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## Red Admiral (Oct 23, 2019)

GreenBull956 said:


> Marines reigns supreme in seas , stated by Doflamingo in chapter 801
> 
> I don't think they are in the same class because they are Kings , Imu is the man who is above Marines and 7 Warlords and Crews , who were allied to counterbalance those Emperors
> 
> ...



lol ... Doffy was talking about "how will rule the seas" he never stated anything

and Doffy himself was an slave to Kaido and not WG

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

god ... is there any way I can have an intelligent conversation around here?!

even if Imu be CAPABLE OF one shot all Yonko and their crew as long as he don't rule over them and their land ... he have no power over Yonko in a political point of view

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

the main power of almost any Yonko crew is Yonko himself and WB was old and sick and injured who let himself get worst

so the fact 6 top tiers was able to beat 1 sick - old one is not some thing to hype yourself about

Marine is shaking to it's core by 2 Yonko being allies and they don't have the men to deal with them simply cause they are fighting warlords

1 top tier
2 high tier
1 neg tier

and they are run out of men ... lol

being capable of manage a war vs 3 Yonko is not possible for Marin ever

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Oct 23, 2019)

GreenBull956 said:


> The new Marine Headquarters is in the New World , G-5 ( was led by Vergo , Smoker is here as well ) is also in New World



the New Marine Ford is was ... 100 feet away form red line ... please ... they are nowhere near any Yonko land ... 

and G5?

the same group Law and Doffy low diffed them?

Reactions: Like 2


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## TheWiggian (Oct 23, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> and you talking
> 
> RULING :
> 
> ...



You're basically arguing against the manga Oda writes:

_"The false premise is that no one is allowed to sit on this throne, not even the 5 elders or the world nobles, as its vacancy symbolizes that the world is not ruled by a *single figure*, sending a message of peace by making all royals equal before it with none greater or lesser than the other"._

Reactions: Like 2


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## GreenBull956 (Oct 23, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> the New Marine Ford is was ... 100 feet away form red line ... please ... they are nowhere near any Yonko land ...
> 
> and G5?
> 
> the same group Law and Doffy low diffed them?


You said Imu have zero power in New World , which i proved wrong . Punk Hazard was in his grip as well


Red Admiral said:


> lol ... Doffy was talking about "how will rule the seas" he never stated anything
> 
> and Doffy himself was an slave to Kaido and not WG


Wasn't he a trader to him ? but w/e

Doffy then stated Marines reigns supreme . re read the chapter


Red Admiral said:


> the main power of almost any Yonko crew is Yonko himself and WB was old and sick and injured who let himself get worst
> 
> so the fact 6 top tiers was able to beat 1 sick - old one is not some thing to hype yourself about


And the World Government's and Marines' Greatest Military Power ( 3 Admirals ) were restricted . forget about Awakenings , they didn't even use their strongest non awakened attacks in plaza ( Daifunka-Ice Age-Yasakani No Magatama ) . WB Pirates had unexpected helps from former Impel Down prisoners - including Luffy Crocodile Jinbe Ivankov . Garp and Sengoku barely did anything to WB Pirates . the 5 Warlords who were present weren't giving considerable efforts anyway . the other 1 was busy infiltrating Impel Down and the other 1 turned against Marines-Shichibukai once he arrived in the war

If the battlefield was in a place where Admirals could go all out , Akainu would have matched up with WB with his Volcanoes while Aokiji massacres the rest , Kizaru-Mihawk-Garp-Sengoku etc. can just watch while eating popcorn from behind


Red Admiral said:


> Marine is shaking to it's core by 2 Yonko being allies and they don't have the men to deal with them simply cause they are fighting warlords
> 
> 1 top tier
> 2 high tier
> ...


The Warlords were scattered , which could have caused Marines to send more Battleships than if the 4 former Warlords weren't scattered . Sending fodders to Weevil was purely stupidity induced to Marines to hype the former Warlords as well

Marines also escorted 50 Kings/Queens from all over the One Piece planet back tot their respective countries , do you forget that ? they were also dealing with result(s) of incident with Cobra/Vivi , and Garp said the Marines were trying their utmost with their resources to solve that

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gledania (Oct 23, 2019)

GreenBull956 said:


> Doffy then stated Marines reigns supreme . re read the chapter




No he didn't.That was anime only. Just asked who will rule over the world.



GreenBull956 said:


> You said Imu have zero power in New World , which i proved wrong . Punk Hazard was in his grip as well



The WG rule in the NW, but it's limited. The yonkon territories are not rulled by them.


GreenBull956 said:


> And the World Government's and Marines' Greatest Military Power ( 3 Admirals ) were restricted . forget abouta Awakenings , they didn't use their strongest non awakened attacks in plaza ( Daifunka-Ice Age-Yasakani No Magatama ) . WB Pirates had an unexpected help from former Impel Down prisoners - including Luffy Crocodile Jinbe Ivankov . Garp and Sengoku barely did anything to WB Pirates . the 5 Warlords who were present weren't giving considerable efforts . the other 1 was busy infiltrating Impel Down and the other 1 turned against Marines-Shichibukai once he arrived in the war
> 
> If the battlefield was in a place where Admirals could go all out , Akainu would have matched up with WB with his Volcanoes while Aokiji massacres the rest , Kizaru-Mihawk-Garp-Sengoku etc. can just watch while eating popcorn from behind



Point is not that one yonko alone could defeat the Marines full forces. Point is that they summoned everyone to deal with one ....


Means other territories of the WG (especially Marijoie) were *not *taken in account for protection.
This alone show you than in term of millitary power , 4 yonko teaming up to face the marines would destroy the marine forces quite easily.

2 are already giving a headache to garp...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Oct 23, 2019)

GreenBull956 said:


> You said Imu have zero power in New World , which i proved wrong . Punk Hazard was in his grip as well
> 
> Wasn't he a trader to him ? but w/e
> 
> ...



in case you don't know some thing like 0.000001 can be count as 0

G5 power compere to Yonko power is the same

and let's don't forget strongest G5 was a slave of a slave to Yonko
+
I know the chapter ... people are miss reading it .. Doffy is thinking out loud about WHO WILL RULE

if Marine was already the ruler ... why even asking out loud ...

this is not so hard to understand

*one can't ask a question with wonder and know the answer at same time*

by every logic Yonko Force would burn Marine to dust

but Marine is stronger than any Yonko alone ... with 5 top tiers ... they better

+

Gura Gura destructive power is above all 3 logia admirals

WB was holding back his power too

if admirals went all power ... same with WB ... all fodders would die ...

but that destructive powers have VERY FEW effect on the top tiers

+

Kings and Queens ... are you telling me Marine is in trouble for that?

dude Shanks can one shot 100K Marine solder like a piece of cake

and I doubt even 10 K Marine solder be around kings and queens

so if fodder fire power even matter for Marine , it's the biggest insult they can get


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## Red Admiral (Oct 23, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> You're basically arguing against the manga Oda writes:
> 
> _"The false premise is that no one is allowed to sit on this throne, not even the 5 elders or the world nobles, as its vacancy symbolizes that the world is not ruled by a *single figure*, sending a message of peace by making all royals equal before it with none greater or lesser than the other"._



and you are are arguing against the manga and logic
Imu have no political power on Yonko and new world so logically he can't be the king of new world ... 
Imu is just another name for WG in political point of view
WG have no power in NW and so as Imu 


and the line you copied didn't even was relevant to my argument 


*what you are saying is : the 4 Emperors are not Emperors*

I wounder why every one call them Emperors 


at least show yourself some respect and don't go on with this crap


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## Gianfi (Oct 23, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> Love how @Blade took away 26000 rep points for this post even though it’s literally just me giving the proper translation
> 
> 
> Admiralbase has no arguments. Just memes and trolling.
> ...


Feel ya man


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## GreenBull956 (Oct 23, 2019)

Gledania said:


> No he didn't.That was anime only. Just asked who will rule over the world.


He didn't say world though . but "these waters" or "this stretch of water" 

Well he didn't say Marines were ruling it , but he did say Marines reigns supreme 


Gledania said:


> The WG rule in the NW, but it's limited. The yonkon territories are not rulled by them.


Yes


Gledania said:


> Point is not that one yonko alone could defeat the Marines full forces. Point is that they summoned everyone to deal with one ....


To prevent damages , why not


Gledania said:


> Means other territories of the WG (especially Marijoie) were *not *taken in account for protection.
> This alone show you than in term of millitary power , 4 yonko teaming up to face the marines would destroy the marine forces quite easily.


Yea 4 Emperors > Marines . which is why they allied with 7 Warlords to counterbalance them


Gledania said:


> 2 are already giving a headache to garp...


Because Kaido-Big Mom making an Alliance is a bad thing . they couldn't deal with them because they were so busy with 4 former Warlords-50 Kings/Queens escorts-result of Alabasta incident , but if they weren't busy because of these things maybe they would have been able to deal with them/send a force to Wano

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Oct 23, 2019)

Gianfi said:


> Feel ya man



never understood the point of Reputation system 

the idea of people not saying cause it would give them bad reputation point in itself hold back free speech



and I love it how a unreal and fake power like giving and taking reputation points drive some people mad with power ... 
I wonder what would happen if any on us get you know ... REAL POWER


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## Red Admiral (Oct 23, 2019)

GreenBull956 said:


> He didn't say world though . but "these waters" or "this stretch of water"
> 
> Well he didn't say Marines were ruling it , but he did say Marines reigns supreme
> 
> ...




tell me what Marines reigns supreme means ?
you are admitting Yonko > marine ... as any logical person should


it's gonna take more than 2 and maybe even come close to 3 Yonko to take Marine down ... it's not a dehype for Marine

it's the biggest hype !! more than 2 YONKO should join force to be sure of the win



There is too much respect for Marine and admirals to get ...

but at some point people need to understand


Admirals are only human and Yonko (par Shanks) are monsters
and all of this people (par Shanks) use DF and their DF is give and take are in same over all level 
DF user Monsters > DF user Human


accept that and if any one wanted to said " Yonko mid diff a Admiral" the both fandom can kick their ass


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## Gledania (Oct 23, 2019)

GreenBull956 said:


> Well he didn't say Marines were ruling it , but he did say Marines reigns supreme



I read it multiple times and no marines rulling anything. Do you have tge viz translation?


GreenBull956 said:


> To prevent damages , why not




You don't leave MJ without protection knowing one yonko may attack it at any rate. If they gather all their strenght in MF and one yonko make a move the others will follow.


GreenBull956 said:


> Because Kaido-Big Mom making an Alliance is a bad thing . they couldn't deal with them because they were so busy with 4 former Warlords-50 Kings/Queens escorts-result of Alabasta incident , but if they weren't busy because of these things maybe they would have been able to deal with them/send a force to Wano



Garp was not referring to the kings meeting nor the 4 warlords (who weren't fired at that time) just saying that 2 yonko alliance would be above their imagination.

Reactions: Like 2


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## GreenBull956 (Oct 23, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> in case you don't know some thing like 0.000001 can be count as 0
> 
> G5 power compere to Yonko power is the same
> 
> and let's don't forget strongest G5 was a slave of a slave to Yonko


You were talking about Imu's power/influence in New World not G-5 specifically lol . you said he/she had Eto power in New World , then i proved you wrong 

Imu's power/influence in NW = New Marine Headquartes , G-5 , maybe PH can be here as well


Red Admiral said:


> I know the chapter ... people are miss reading it .. Doffy is thinking out loud about WHO WILL RULE
> 
> if Marine was already the ruler ... why even asking out loud ...
> 
> ...


You said Yonko were kings . i just replied Marine is a higher king , which Doflamingo said reigns supreme 


Red Admiral said:


> Gura Gura destructive power is above all 3 logia admirals
> 
> WB was holding back his power too
> 
> ...


3 Logia Admirals firepower >>>> WB's alone .


Red Admiral said:


> Kings and Queens ... are you telling me Marine is in trouble for that?
> 
> dude Shanks can one shot 100K Marine solder like a piece of cake
> 
> ...


Weren't you laughing at Marines losing manpower ? because of 4 former Warlords you said . then i added that they lost manpower because they escorted 50 Kings/Queens back to their respective countries as well all over the One Piece planet , and they were dealing with result of Alabasta ( which has 10 million citizens ) incident and Garp said the Marines were trying their utmost to solve that

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## GreenBull956 (Oct 23, 2019)

Gledania said:


> I read it multiple times and no marines rulling anything. Do you have tge viz translation?


He didn't say Marines were ruling indeed . he said Marines reigns supreme



Gledania said:


> You don't leave MJ without protection knowing one yonko may attack it at any rate. If they gather all their strenght in MF and one yonko make a move the others will follow.


I think ..... well WG also has CP 0-9/8 , Commander in Chief Kong whose office is in Mariejois , Impel Down staff , Five Elders looks like they were once fighters as well


Gledania said:


> Garp was not referring to the kings meeting nor the 4 warlords (who weren't fired at that time) just saying that 2 yonko alliance would be above their imagination.


You said 2 Emperors gave Garp a headache , so i thought you were referring to his reaction in chapter 957

So you are referring to his reaction to Kaido-Big Mom potential meeting in Wano from chapter 907 . Well he didn't have a headache
( he even had a grin ) , also he didn't say it would be above their imagination in VIZ , or Cnet128 , he said "but events will find a way to surpass our imaginations anyway" in VIZ , or Cnet128 , if i recall correctly

Reactions: Like 2


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## TheWiggian (Oct 23, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> and you are are arguing against the manga and logic
> Imu have no political power on Yonko and new world so logically he can't be the king of new world ...
> Imu is just another name for WG in political point of view
> WG have no power in NW and so as Imu
> ...



The Emperors are known worldwide while only a handful of people know about "IM's" existence. The world is kept in the dark because if the kingdoms find out someone sits on the throne rebellion/war et cetera will break out across the globe. 

That's the whole purpose to hide his existence, he's still sitting on the throne pulling the strings from the shadows like a puppet-player.

Deny that all you want.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Sherlōck (Oct 23, 2019)

If Imu wants he can pluck out Yonko's one by one. 

Lol at people trying to imply that Yonko has more power than Imu.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Sabco (Oct 23, 2019)

Sherlōck said:


> If Imu wants he can pluck out Yonko's one by one.
> 
> Lol at people trying to imply that Yonko has more power than Imu.



Imu gives no fucks about them. he only cares about Luffy and Blackbeard's potential to pull a second Roger / Rocks on the WG.


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## Dellinger (Oct 23, 2019)

Sherlōck said:


> If Imu wants he can pluck out Yonko's one by one.
> 
> Lol at people trying to imply that Yonko has more power than Imu.


You mean to tell me that the WG has the power to destroy the Yonko and yet they don't...





TheWiggian said:


> Yea thats nice her homies are still useless. She can't harm her opponents with them. How is the water homie moving on land bro?
> 
> Akainu survived the WSM's attacks and was fine fighting afterwards. Big Mom and Kaido survived what again? Some fodder attacks, the best they were able to is tank mid end G4 attacks. Also theres a way around their so overwhelming defense as we saw numerous times of Big Mom being injured and Kaido having one of the largest scars a character has if not the largest.



When did Big Mom get injured ?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sabco (Oct 23, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> You mean to tell me that the WG has the power to destroy the Yonko and yet they don't...



They are spreading wars and watching pirates destroying each other without unnecessary navy casualties.

Kaido is dealing with a giant army of pirates including Luffy, Law, Kid, Ashura, Zoro, Kawamatsu, Dukes etc.. and is trying to do the Marine's job here. Luffy destroyed Kaido's trade and stopped him from strengthening his crew further. Kaido also tried to attack and kill Whitebeard. (Navy soldiers dead = 0 Imu is PROUD)

Blackbeard Pirates and Revolutionaries have a big grudge and attacked each other. BLACKBEARD FOUND AND DESTROYED BALTIGO. Weevil, Marco and Luffy all hold grudges towards Blackbeard and want to take him down. ( Navy soldiers dead = NEIN Imu is really proud )

Big Mom stomped Kid, Killer, Apoo and Urouge. nearly killed Capone and is now chasing Luffy who she sworn to kill. Urouge took down Snack in turn. Luffy destroyed most of WCI and trashed two commanders ( Navy soldiers dead = NEIN Imu is getting horny  )

Shanks' crew severed Kid's arm and the latter is targeting him. Shanks meets the elders in a surprise meeting but they stay calm and don't give a darn about him. Shanks warns them from a pirate and helps them identify a problem. Shanks also is foreshadowed to fight against another Yonko, Blackbeard. ( Imu just came )

Also in the future we might see BB attacking Kaido and Big Mom's territories to get the red stones.


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## Dellinger (Oct 23, 2019)

Edward-Teach said:


> They are spreading wars and watching pirates destroying each other without unnecessary navy casualties.
> 
> Kaido is dealing with a giant army of pirates including Luffy, Law, Kid, Ashura, Zoro, Kawamatsu, Dukes etc.. and is trying to do the Marine's job here. Luffy destroyed Kaido's trade and stopped him from strengthening his crew further. (Navy soldiers dead = 0 Imu is PROUD)
> 
> ...



Excuses. The Yonko are the biggest problem the WG faces and they can't do shit about. It doesn't make sense for them to have the power to wipe them out and yet not doing it. They simply can't. They have empires, they are the strongest in the world. They do what they want, they mostly get what they want.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Sherlōck (Oct 23, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> You mean to tell me that the WG has the power to destroy the Yonko and yet they don't...



This isn't going to age well during final war.


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## Sabco (Oct 23, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> Excuses. The Yonko are the biggest problem the WG faces and they can't do shit about. It doesn't make sense for them to have the power to wipe them out and yet not doing it. They simply can't. They have empires, they are the strongest in the world. They do what they want, they mostly get what they want.



They don't have the power to wipe them out, but they have the power to equal them.


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## Sherlōck (Oct 23, 2019)

BTW, Dragon is the biggest problem the WG faces not Yonko.


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## Shiroryu (Oct 23, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> never understood the point of Reputation system
> 
> the idea of people not saying cause it would give them bad reputation point in itself hold back free speech
> 
> ...


It’s just ridiculous how I get 26k rep taken away for fact checking.

I was just pointing out that the correct translation is that the Magu is amongst the highest tier of AP in DFs instead of being the undisputed #1.

And then I get neg repped for that. I wasn’t even posting an opinion. What I said is literally a fact

Reactions: Like 2


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## TheWiggian (Oct 23, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> When did Big Mom get injured ?


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## Sabco (Oct 23, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> It’s just ridiculous how I get 26k rep taken away for fact checking.
> 
> I was just pointing out that the correct translation is that the Magu is amongst the highest tier of AP in DFs instead of being the undisputed #1.
> 
> And then I get neg repped for that. I wasn’t even posting an opinion. What I said is literally a fact



That's nothing. i literally  got 30000 or so rep taken away for saying WB panel shouldn't have won the panel tournament lmao.


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## Dellinger (Oct 23, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


>



Yeah that's because of her weakness.

Now when did someone hurt her as you claimed in your post ?


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## TheWiggian (Oct 23, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> Yeah that's because of her weakness.
> 
> Now when did someone hurt her as you claimed in your post ?



"Mama's been wounded" is not enough for you? 


*Spoiler*: __ 















Iam sure i even missed some, good thing Meme got plenty 
Also why should Meme's weakness be excluded? It's a character trait just like her skin.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Cursemark (Oct 23, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> "Mama's been wounded" is not enough for you?
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


She didn't receive damage from any of those attacks.

The fact that you have to resort to trolling & memeing means you've already lost the argument.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fujitora (Oct 23, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


>


Why are you such a troll man? Do you want it so that no one ever takes you seriously? And overusing talking heads makes you look even more childish.

Reactions: Like 2


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## TheWiggian (Oct 23, 2019)

Cursemark said:


> She didn't receive damage from any of those attacks.
> 
> The fact that you have to resort to trolling & memeing means you've already lost the argument.



She did. 

Queen knocked her out. She is literally full of bruises in one of those panels. Her knees were bleeding. King sent her to a trip through her childhood. Jinbei overpowered her and she had to be saved by her homie. Nami's thunderbolt tempo grilled her. 
If not for plot BMP would be no more.

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheWiggian (Oct 23, 2019)

OniKaido said:


> Why are you such a troll man? Do you want it so that no one ever takes you seriously? And overusing talking heads makes you look even more childish.



She is hurt there isn't she? Or am i interpreting the panel wrong? The knees are bleeding and she cries like a kid.

Text says: "Mama's been wounded?!"
Capone confirms she's weakened.

So how is that trolling?

Reactions: Like 1


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## MO (Oct 23, 2019)

God Movement said:


> Literally every Admiral is stronger than every Yonkou.

Reactions: Like 4


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## AmitDS (Oct 23, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> She did.
> 
> Queen knocked her out. She is literally full of bruises in one of those panels. Her knees were bleeding. King sent her to a trip through her childhood. Jinbei overpowered her and she had to be saved by her homie. Nami's thunderbolt tempo grilled her.
> If not for plot BMP would be no more.



Queen didn't knock her out. He jogged her memory then she fell asleep. 
*Link Removed* 
I know you all can't resist bashing female characters but this is crazy.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Corax (Oct 24, 2019)

She fell asleep because of amnesia (brain damage). So if you want sricktly it was a combined feat of King+Queen. King sent her for infamous underwater adventure and she suffered amnesia (memory loss). Queen returned her memories and cracked her skull a bit and she fell asleep.
P.S Some arguments in this thread hardly have any sense anymore. Even Oda himself states that "Moma has been wounded". It isn't even possible to interprete these panels in any other way. Still some posters here claim that she can't be even wounded and it is impossible to wound her.

Reactions: Like 2


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## RossellaFiamingo (Oct 24, 2019)

Admiral gang = shook ones. Scared to death and afraid to look. I invite all the negs... it simply means that they have no argument. I’ll admit that I find Wiggian hilarious now no matter what he says or does. 


It’s simple to understand that Yonko>Admirals. This doesn’t change the fact that 2 of my top 5 favorite characters are Admirals in Kizaru and Aokiji. I even go by the name Admiral-Kizaru on some forums. Don’t understand how this stuff is so antagonistic. Many of the people who think Yonko are stronger like Admirals. I literally don’t care about any Yonko apart from Mama. Top 5 is this

Mama
Aokiji
Kizaru
Benn Beckman[His name alone. Add to the fact he made my boy Kizaru pause]
Katakuri

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fel1x (Oct 24, 2019)

I believe this thread has the biggest pool of negs compared to any thread in OL

@Soca , do you have any statistic like that as a mod?


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## Steven (Oct 24, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Yea thats nice her homies are still useless. She can't harm her opponents with them. How is the water homie moving on land bro?
> 
> Akainu survived the WSM's attacks and was fine fighting afterwards. Big Mom and Kaido survived what again? Some fodder attacks, the best they were able to is tank mid end G4 attacks. Also theres a way around their so overwhelming defense as we saw numerous times of Big Mom being injured and Kaido having one of the largest scars a character has if not the largest.


Napoleon is on the same stage like Kaido and his club.

They cant hurt anyone?Remember King Baum?Zeus is also>Enel

Surviving≠Overpower/Block

This is a clash where both n1ggas has the same power

Akainu survived the gura punch but never block it with his own strength

BM and Kaido are well know for having the best Dura in this series.

BM has 0 scars and that after decades.Roger got killed by 2 foddermarines,yet in the same situation,the weapons just broke on Kaido.Both has not normal Humanbodys like Roger or WB


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## TheWiggian (Oct 24, 2019)

Acno said:


> Napoleon is on the same stage like Kaido and his club.
> 
> They cant hurt anyone?Remember King Baum?Zeus is also>Enel
> 
> ...



Not sure what your words are proving except the napoleon homie. I literally showed you scans of Big Mom being injured and Kaido having a scar is what everyone here knows.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sabco (Oct 24, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> "Mama's been wounded" is not enough for you?
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



Fodder Mom bruised and beaten up by Jinbe


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## TheWiggian (Oct 24, 2019)

Edward-Teach said:


> Fodder Mom bruised and beaten up by Jinbe



That vagabond drill probably left a scar, we simply don't see it due to her clothes

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sabco (Oct 24, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> That vagabond drill probably left a scar, we simply don't see it due to her clothes



Big lame can't even bruise a talking deer or react to a skeleton



Lame Mom admits chopper is full of surprises. damn.


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## Corax (Oct 24, 2019)

Acno said:


> Napoleon is on the same stage like Kaido and his club.
> 
> They cant hurt anyone?Remember King Baum?Zeus is also>Enel
> 
> ...


I am sure that you know that panel of Gura quake punch vs magma fist exists. May be even in One Piece manga. Though may be it was a dream and in fact it exists only in Two Piece.


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## Steven (Oct 24, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Not sure what your words are proving except the napoleon homie. I literally showed you scans of Big Mom being injured and Kaido having a scar is what everyone here knows.


Yet half of Aokijis Body is gone and Akainu survived via PIS against WB


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## Steven (Oct 24, 2019)

Corax said:


> I am sure that you know that panel of Gura quake punch vs magma fist exists. May be even in One Piece manga. Though may be it was a dream and in fact it exists only in Two Piece.


Bloodlusted quakes>>>>casual quakes

Different story


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## Sengoku (Oct 24, 2019)

AmitDS said:


> Queen didn't knock her out. He jogged her memory then she fell asleep.
> *Link Removed*
> I know you all can't resist bashing female characters but this is crazy.



People ranging from boxers to MMA fighters have suffered concussion / coma well after the fight is over.

Big Mom took a big fat L and she sat on that so hard.

Big Mom may be overall superior to Queen but in that very match up alone, she lost.

Reactions: Like 5


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## TheWiggian (Oct 24, 2019)

Acno said:


> Yet half of Aokijis Body is gone and Akainu survived via PIS against WB



What does Aokiji have to do with this? Are you desperately trying to create a wow effect because Akainu took Aokiji's leg while Big Meme and Kaido didn't even face off against Sakazuki?

Look here:

_- A Yonko and Admiral faced Sakazuki
- Both went out of the fight with missing body parts
- Magma boasts the highest offensive power among devilfruits since it can melt through many things (not counting infused Haki)_

Conclusion: *Unless Enma is more powerful than his DF* it's safe to assume *Sakazuki wields powers that can bypass Big Mom's and Kaido's durability.* Add that _he is capable of using advanced *Haki*_ that _*destroys cells from inside upon impact*_ it further increases the possibiliy of the FA to hurt them.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Sabco (Oct 24, 2019)

Corax said:


> I am sure that you know that panel of Gura quake punch vs magma fist exists. May be even in One Piece manga. Though may be it was a dream and in fact it exists only in Two Piece.



It does exist but they don't want to remember that WB and Akainu fought for two chapters :
​
one chapter later and they are still fighting on par ( despite Akainu holding back ) :


​


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## AmitDS (Oct 24, 2019)

Sengoku said:


> People ranging from boxers to MMA fighters have suffered concussion / coma well after the fight is over.
> 
> Big Mom took a big fat L and she sat on that so hard.
> 
> Big Mom may be overall superior to Queen but in that very match up alone, she lost.



*Oh you again.  Haven't heard from you since before Big Mom clashed equally with big, bad Kaido.  Guess she has those 'clashing with high tiers' feats you wanted, now huh?*

Big Mom 'lost' because she _can_. She didn't care, she didn't give a f about Queen. She saw Queen, scared him and fell asleep because she knew he couldn't do anything to her. That's why he was rushing, shocked/puzzled and wanted to chain her before she woke up.   It's just like she knew Kaido would let her free before engaging her.

This isn't real life, she isn't an MMA fighter and she didn't get knocked out as she spoke and acted normally before falling asleep and snoring.


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## Blade (Oct 24, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> What does Aokiji have to do with this? Are you desperately trying to create a wow effect because Akainu took Aokiji's leg while Big Meme and Kaido didn't even face off against Sakazuki?
> 
> Look here:
> 
> ...




pre-timeskip akainu teared apart a chunk of wb's face 

big meme ain't tanking shit, especially from post-timeskip akainu

Reactions: Like 3


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## Shiroryu (Oct 24, 2019)

Blade said:


> pre-timeskip akainu teared apart a chunk of wb's face
> 
> big meme ain't tanking shit, especially from post-timeskip akainu


Meigo gives BM a bruise/first degree burn at best

Reactions: Like 1


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## RossellaFiamingo (Oct 24, 2019)

Blade said:


> pre-timeskip akainu teared apart a chunk of wb's face
> 
> big meme ain't tanking shit, especially from post-timeskip akainu




Lol Sakazuki gets put down like the dog he is

Reactions: Like 3


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## Cursemark (Oct 24, 2019)

Sengoku said:


> People ranging from boxers to MMA fighters have suffered concussion / coma well after the fight is over.
> 
> Big Mom took a big fat L and she sat on that so hard.
> 
> Big Mom may be overall superior to Queen but in that very match up alone, she lost.


BM fell asleep due to her own personal issues, not because of queen. Queen himself acknowledged that his attack did nothing.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Sengoku (Oct 24, 2019)

AmitDS said:


> *Oh you again.  Haven't heard from you since before Big Mom clashed equally with big, bad Kaido.  Guess she has those 'clashing with high tiers' feats you wanted, now huh?*



You mean a clash that basically showed absolutely nothing? Luffy knocking Kaido out from the sky is a better feat. And Luffy isn't even legitimately an Emperor level yet.



> Big Mom 'lost' because she _can_.


I suppose Big Mom wanted the rookies to escape from her island as well? Big Mom actually wanted Jinbei to knock her out from the seas? I guess Big Mom wanted to go for a nice swim when King knocked her and her crew-mates into the waters?



> She didn't care, she didn't give a f about Queen. She saw Queen, scared him and fell asleep because she knew he couldn't do anything to her.



An obvious weakness of hers in which the admirals would easily take advantage of. Thank you very much.



> This isn't real life, she isn't an MMA fighter and she didn't get knocked out as she spoke and acted normally before falling asleep and snoring.



I never said she was knocked out immediately after the blow. She obviously did suffer some sort of concussion or at least head injuries from the headbutt. Again, people have fights, get severe concussion, act okay and normal, then deep induced coma sets in all of a sudden.
One Piece takes real life pieces and implements them in its story. If OP doesn't use some elements from real life then why does she fall asleep like most of the human beings do in real life?


Point is: Big Mom saw Queen coming from a "mile" away and still couldn't dodge away in time. As a One Piece reader, you, an emperor rider, should be ashamed of it. The distance between Queen's location and Big Mom's is massive. Any lightning timers like Enel would have dodged that easily. Big Mom? Emperor? What a joke.

From here on out, anything that happens to the Emperors in terms of humiliation or defeat, will only result in you saying "Oh because they want to get hurt or ohhh the emperors just want to get defeated". That's how hard you are riding the Emperors.

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## Kylo Ren (Oct 24, 2019)

Sengoku said:


> Point is: Big Mom saw Queen coming from a "mile" away and still couldn't dodge away in time. As a One Piece reader, you, an emperor rider, should be ashamed of it. The distance between Queen's location and Big Mom's is massive. Any lightning timers like Enel would have dodged that easily. Big Mom? Emperor? What a joke.
> 
> From here on out, anything that happens to the Emperors in terms of humiliation or defeat, will only result in you saying "Oh because they want to get hurt or ohhh the emperors just want to get defeated". That's how hard you are riding the Emperors.


How about Akainu couldn't react when WB sneak on him or when Vista and Marco blitz him? When Marco kick Aokiji to the side, When Jozu make Aokiji bleed? Admirals? what a joke. As a One Piece reader, you, an admiral rider, should be ashamed of it. 

at least BM never got injured by the likes of 2nd YC in fact that 2nd YC run scared as fck and called daddy Kaido to deal with her. Meanwhile, same 2nd YC face Admiral and Jozu said to daddy WB go ahead I deal with this.  

Yonko commander facing Yonko - Nope, nah uh. call Captain. 

Yonko commander facing admirals - Hell yeah, leave it to me. I can handle this as long there is no distraction. 

Yonko facing FM level characters - one shotted

Admirals facing FM level characters - Well, you know what it is. 

so yeah it's more shameful to become Admiral fan than become Yonko fan especially when you're spouting nonsense like they're supposed to be equal when the truth is, it's not.

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## AmitDS (Oct 24, 2019)

> You mean a clash that basically showed absolutely nothing? Luffy knocking Kaido out from the sky is a better feat. And Luffy isn't even legitimately an Emperor level yet.



Did you stretch before that reach? 




> I suppose Big Mom wanted the rookies to escape from her island as well? Big Mom actually wanted Jinbei to knock her out from the seas? I guess Big Mom wanted to go for a nice swim when King knocked her and her crew-mates into the waters?



She has a hunger pang. Do you need to re-read the arc or?




> An obvious weakness of hers in which the admirals would easily take advantage of. Thank you very much.



Hasn't happened in over 20 years so I guess it's working for her. 





> I never said she was knocked out immediately after the blow. She obviously did suffer some sort of concussion or at least head injuries from the headbutt. Again, people have fights, get severe concussion, act okay and normal, then deep induced coma sets in all of a sudden.
> One Piece takes real life pieces and implements them in its story. If OP doesn't use some elements from real life then why does she fall asleep like most of the human beings do in real life?



So no proof that Queen knocked her out and she didn't sleep?
Also are you saying that Queen > Kaido since Queen knocked out Big Mom but Kaido couldn't do the same? 



> Point is: Big Mom saw Queen coming from a "mile" away and still couldn't dodge away in time. As a One Piece reader, you, an emperor rider, should be ashamed of it. The distance between Queen's location and Big Mom's is massive. Any lightning timers like Enel would have dodged that easily. Big Mom? Emperor? What a joke.



_Longest reigning emperor_ actually .



> From here on out, anything that happens to the Emperors in terms of humiliation or defeat, will only result in you saying "Oh because they want to get hurt or ohhh the emperors just want to get defeated". That's how hard you are riding the Emperors.



Again, the reaching.
Tell you what. If Big Mom scares Luffy and then falls asleep when she sees Luffy coming and gets captured as a result in the final battle, I promise I won't say that she ignored Luffy. Okay for you?
Damn. Someone's mad. I guess the past few weeks have been tough for the Admirals > Yonko crew.
Saying the Yonko are top tier = Me being an Emperor rider? Ok then.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sengoku (Oct 25, 2019)

AmitDS said:


> She has a hunger pang. Do you need to re-read the arc or?



Basically hunger issues and a concussion (whether the latter was 1%-99% for the cause of the sudden unconsciousness), fact still remains she has a glaring weakness. 



> Hasn't happened in over 20 years so I guess it's working for her.



That false bravado obviously worked against her when the rookies escaped her own island when they had a drop on them plus Queen embarrassingly landed a hit on her fat dome.



> So no proof that Queen knocked her out and she didn't sleep?



But she did sleep after? The *result* was Queen effectively *ceased* her amok-like actions with a simple slow headbutt?



> Also are you saying that Queen > Kaido since Queen knocked out Big Mom but Kaido couldn't do the same?



No one is saying Queen > Kaido. It is quite obvious you have selective reading.
Here is a reminder what I said earlier: 





> Big Mom may be overall superior to Queen but in that very match up alone, she lost.



Knowing your demeanor and your emotionally driven attitude, you will forget all about that quote.



> Again, the reaching.
> Tell you what. If Big Mom scares Luffy and then falls asleep when she sees Luffy coming and gets captured as a result in the final battle, I promise I won't say that she ignored Luffy. Okay for you?


Sure but right after Luffy lands a hit on her first and then exposes just how trash of her absurd weakness is. Albeit being knocked unconsciousness, hunger deprivation, emotionally wrecked hallucination, PTSD, etc...



> Damn. Someone's mad. I guess the past few weeks have been though for the Admirals > Yonko crew.
> Saying the Yonko are top tier = Me being an Emperor rider? Ok then.



Mad for not reading/postponing One Piece for a few months while making money in real life? lol.
Whatever makes you sleep better at night I guess?

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## AmitDS (Oct 25, 2019)

Sengoku said:


> Basically hunger issues and a concussion (whether the latter was 1%-99% for the cause of the sudden unconsciousness), fact still remains she has a glaring weakness.


And in spite of her weakness she is an Emperor and the longest reigning one at the moment. Oda doesn't agree with you, clearly.






> That false bravado obviously worked against her when the rookies escaped her own island when they had a drop on them plus Queen embarrassingly landed a hit on her fat dome.


Most of Luffy's enemies underestimate him and even then they had to retreat because her power and the power of her crew was overwhelming. You're so bothered, it's hilarious. 
*Meanwhile WB's commanders landed hits on your Admirals when they weren't suffering from memory loss so by your own logic, again, they are humiliated and it's embarrassing for the admirals. *




> But she did sleep after? The *result* was Queen effectively *ceased* her amok-like actions with a simple slow headbutt?



No the result was Big Mom ceased her own 'amok-like actions' by deciding to take a nap while Queen wanted to shit his pants.




> No one is saying Queen > Kaido. It is quite obvious you have selective reading.
> Here is a reminder what I said earlier:
> 
> Knowing your demeanor and your emotionally driven attitude, you will forget all about that quote.



You are the one claiming that Luffy's feat against Kaido > Big Mom's. *By your same logic, Queen's feat against Big Mom > Kaido's *and as a result I asked if you are implying that those feats show superiority in terms of power. Honest question.

I'm not the one upset about the Yonko though. You're the only emotional one here who apparently is really, really bothered by the 4 emperors and people thinking of them as top tier. What's emotional about my post(s)?
The irony of you talking about selective reading... lol




> Sure but right after Luffy lands a hit on her first and then exposes just how trash of her absurd weakness is. Albeit being knocked unconsciousness, hunger deprivation, emotionally wrecked hallucination, PTSD, etc...



Yet she is undefeated as an emperor and was clashing with another emperor with both of them scaring the marines by the very thought of them allying. *The fact that she is an emperor with all these 'absurd' weaknesses actually makes her greater, ironically enough*




> Mad for not reading/postponing One Piece for a few months while making money in real life? lol.
> Whatever makes you sleep better at night I guess?



No one asked but okay? The fact that you had to defend yourself and talk about what you were doing is...telling.


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## Corax (Oct 25, 2019)

Cursemark said:


> BM fell asleep due to her own personal issues, not because of queen. Queen himself acknowledged that his attack did nothing.


Just replace her for a second with Aokiji/Akainu. Queen falls on them from the hill and they  fall asleep and awaken in chains imprisoned in some dungeon....
This isn't possible even if Three Piece written by some fan. Let alone by Oda,he will never even think about something as disgraceful towards Akainu or Aokiji.


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## Sengoku (Oct 25, 2019)

AmitDS said:


> And in spite of her weakness she is an Emperor and the longest reigning one at the moment. Oda doesn't agree with you, clearly.



When some Emperors haven't seen each other for over 20 years and without any hard competition. Sure?



> Most of Luffy's enemies underestimate him and even then they had to retreat because her power and the power of her crew was overwhelming. You're so bothered, it's hilarious.



Underestimated? Big Mom's actions painted a clear thought in wanting the rookies captured and/or killed. Why would her enemies underestimate Luffy knowing that any condition which results in them failing may incur her wrath? Sounds like utter bullshit to me. They had plenty of chances to capture the rookies and they failed hard. Move on.

*



			Meanwhile WB's commanders landed hits on your Admirals when they weren't suffering from memory loss so by your own logic, again, they are humiliated and it's embarrassing for the admirals.
		
Click to expand...

*
Yeah, its quite embarrassing. Except the embarrassment far outweighs in Big Mom's favor. I mean you have King who single handily annihilated Big Mom and her crew despite seeing him coming. If an admiral on his bustercall ship gets annihilated and subsequently drowned by a single Yonko commander then you have a different story.

You clearly don't want to argue embarrassing feats because Big Mom definitely takes the cake. Get it?




> No the result was Big Mom ceased her own 'amok-like actions' by deciding to take a nap while Queen wanted to shit his pants.



Clearly, no. And what @Corax said. Imagine you switch roles and have admirals taking a nap. Its utterly stupid and just shows how dumb Big Mom is for even wasting her energy rampaging about only for her to sleep because "she wanted to".

Queen handed Big Mom her loss. I'll even agree that Big Mom will beat Queen more times than vice versa. Accept it and move on. It is not that hard.



> You are the one claiming that Luffy's feat against Kaido > Big Mom's. *By your same logic, Queen's feat against Big Mom > Kaido's. *



That is an assumption on your part and you got it wrong.
You said, 





> Also are you saying that Queen > Kaido since Queen knocked out Big Mom but Kaido couldn't do the same?


.

Except I don't use A  > B , and B > C. So that must mean A > C logic.
I use evidence provided through panels. Nice try though.




> and as a result I asked if you are implying that those feats show superiority in terms of power. Honest question.



It just shows that the Emperors aren't what you guys think they should be. They aren't the end all be all characters. And clearly, they have more embarrassing moments that outweigh what the admirals have been shunned for thus far.





> I'm not the one upset about the Yonko though. You're the only emotional one here who apparently is really, really bothered by the 4 emperors and people thinking of them as top tier. What's emotional about my post(s)?
> The irony of you talking about selective reading... lol



There isn't a need to project your own weakness on to others like what you are doing right now. You are emotionally clouded and invested every single time you get into an argument with me. This personal vendetta of yours is quite cute though.

Just to let you know, I don't really care if the Emperors are top tiers. I just find it excruciatingly funny how roused up you and the other wankers get when someone posts a single embarrassing feat of them.
If you want to know my stance on who is stronger? I find the admirals and the emperors to be on par, more or less. Yonko commanders or vice admirals would lose against them more times than they can win.






> Yet she is undefeated as an emperor and was clashing with another emperor with both of them scaring the marines by the very thought of them allying. *The fact that she is an emperor with all these 'absurd' weaknesses actually makes her greater, ironically enough*



Of course it is an absurd weakness. These weaknesses home in on her actions in not capturing the rookies, became a big dumb drooling oaf after being drowned, etc...



> No one asked but okay? The fact that you had to defend yourself and talk about what you were doing is...telling.



It is funny how heavily focused you are in trying to get a rise out of me. Any one in here who has the opportunity to make good money and read One Piece when they can, can have all of my support. You just sound grumpy as hell. Ciao~~

Reactions: Like 4


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## Yuji (Oct 25, 2019)

Corax said:


> Just replace her for a second with Aokiji/Akainu. Queen falls on them from the hill and they  fall asleep and awaken in chains imprisoned in some dungeon....



Ao kiji or Akainu without devil fruit abilities, haki or memories?

By the time Queen hit them they'd be dead.

That's assuming they were strong enough to even break into the prison in the first place.

Reactions: Like 3


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## GreenBull956 (Oct 25, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> Meigo gives BM a bruise/first degree burn at best


You said before "precise/concentrated attacks" matter more in a fight than AOE ones , so have you changed your mind ?

Anyway for this to stay as a plausible opinion , Big Mom has to not draw blood from [Blocked Domain] member(s) low/mid level attacks


Yuji said:


> By the time Queen hit them they'd be dead.


Their devil fruit abilities doesn't boost their natural durability , also they were hit off guard , so i'm not sure if they used Haki ( i don't think Akainu had it on his back when Whitebeard sneaked him )

Having no memories - why would this matter to durability ?

You think Whitebeard's Quakes > Brachio Bomber ?

Aokiji also got sneak attacked by WB's 2nd strongest , and he only got a bloody lip .


Yuji said:


> That's assuming they were strong enough to even break into the prison in the first place.


They can just use Geppo to enter from above . Aokiji have showed Soru too though

*Spoiler*: __

Reactions: Like 2


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## Corax (Oct 25, 2019)

Yuji said:


> Ao kiji or Akainu without devil fruit abilities, haki or memories?
> 
> By the time Queen hit them they'd be dead.
> 
> That's assuming they were strong enough to even break into the prison in the first place.


I am about her portrayal. Oda holds some special gifts for yonko like BM and some pirate L collectors (Jack etc.). It is impossible to have and admiral to fall asleep in the middle of the fight and be chained by some irrelevant trash and delivered into the prison. Not in this manga. Oda has the highest respect for admirals. He even said that he is their fan (to be more precise he is a fan of actors that he used  as models for admirals).


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## Steven (Oct 25, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> What does Aokiji have to do with this? Are you desperately trying to create a wow effect because Akainu took Aokiji's leg while Big Meme and Kaido didn't even face off against Sakazuki?
> 
> Look here:
> 
> ...


Did Akainu ever oneshoted a FM like Kaido did?No

Yonkous are nigh-equal and Shanks blocked Akainu´s magmapunch without a problem

Enma has most likely some special ability,like Kaidos Club.

Prove that Akainu have advanced CoA.Thats for now just a baseless assumption.Being the FA dont gives you CoA 2.0 or FS

Reactions: Like 2


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## X18999 (Oct 25, 2019)

'Chinjao mentioned Emperors and Admirals together!'

Of course to a 500 Millions-ish scrub who was crippled and traumatized after getting one-shot by Garp Admirals and Emperors are both unbeatable monsters... might as well add commanders to that list as they also have no problem with him.  Or maybe the dude thought that Garp was the standard for Marine Admirals.

----

Also if the Government had 6+ Big Mom level people then all of the Road Ponegliffs would be in the Holy Land so no one could ever find One Piece.

Reactions: Like 2


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## TheWiggian (Oct 25, 2019)

Acno said:


> Did Akainu ever oneshoted a FM like Kaido did?No



Akainu took half of the WSM's head which is honestly more impressive than Kaido's whole existence.



Acno said:


> Yonkous are nigh-equal and Shanks blocked Akainu´s magmapunch without a problem



Manga disagrees with you and puts old WB on a higher pedestal numerous amounts of time. Sakazuki blocked gura WB attacks and like all admirals at MF he was able to compete with the WSM on equal grounds to the point of YC's helping WB out of the stalemate.



Acno said:


> Enma has most likely some special ability,like Kaidos Club.



So Kaido himself was not able to take out Luffy on his own and he gotta thank his club for doing the job?



Acno said:


> Prove that Akainu have advanced CoA.Thats for now just a baseless assumption.Being the FA dont gives you CoA 2.0 or FS




*Spoiler*: __ 









I never claimed for admirals to have future sight but i can easily do so on Aokiji's feat:


*Spoiler*: __ 









He shifted his body around the stabbed area. Or Sakazuki shifting his body around Marco's and Vista's slashes:


*Spoiler*: __

Reactions: Like 6


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## Shiroryu (Oct 25, 2019)

GreenBull956 said:


> You said before "precise/concentrated attacks" matter more in a fight than AOE ones , so have you changed your mind ?
> 
> Anyway for this to stay as a plausible opinion , Big Mom has to not draw blood from [Blocked Domain] member(s) low/mid level attacks
> 
> ...


BM fought Garp and Roger before and still has no scars. None of Akainu’s attacks are putting holes in her or giving her 3rd degree burns

Reactions: Like 3


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## TheWiggian (Oct 25, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> BM fought Garp and Roger before and still has no scars. None of Akainu’s attacks are putting holes in her or giving her 3rd degree burns



It's because she got knocked out with CoC like a fodder and the legends duked it out like pimps who will own the whore. Roger and Garp won.

Reactions: Like 5


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## ImpalerDragon (Oct 25, 2019)

Admiral cannot hurt kaido or big mama. Whitebeard have not same body like they.


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## Steven (Oct 25, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Akainu took half of the WSM's head which is honestly more impressive than Kaido's whole existence.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


MF WB had a trash dura.Fodder marines was able to harm him.The dude was not even able to use CoA.So,hurting MF WB is not a big deal,he has not the same body as Kaido or BM

Yes,Old WB was>Other Yonkous but the gap was minusscale.MF WB was the weakest Yonkou(except in DC/AP).Yet Akainu was done after two hits


The weapon alone dont make you strong enough to harm Top-Tiers.Most of divine thunder was Kaido´s physical strength.Oden is at minimum Upper High-Tier-Low Top-Tier.No way he is some random fodder

Yes,Aokiji might have FS

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheWiggian (Oct 25, 2019)

Acno said:


> MF WB had a trash dura.Fodder marines was able to harm him.The dude was not even able to use CoA.So,hurting MF WB is not a big deal,he has not the same body as Kaido or BM
> 
> Yes,Old WB was>Other Yonkous but the gap was minusscale.MF WB was the weakest Yonkou(except in DC/AP).Yet Akainu was done after two hits
> 
> ...



And Akainu came out right after and went further after Luffy and Jinbei melting his way through underground. The gap was there and WB was still referred to as the top dog.


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## Sabco (Oct 25, 2019)

ImpalerDragon said:


> Admiral cannot hurt kaido or big mama. Whitebeard have not same body like they.



I cannot see them eating a large fist of Lava head on without protecting themselves and still not getting damaged. that's pushing it.



Acno said:


> MF WB was the weakest Yonkou(except in DC/AP)



If you think Marineford Whitebeard has the highest attack power, then Akainu's AP is by default close to him and is capable of harming the other Yonko :

Reactions: Like 1


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## AmitDS (Oct 25, 2019)

X18999 said:


> 'Chinjao mentioned Emperors and Admirals together!'
> 
> Of course to a 500 Millions-ish scrub who was crippled and traumatized after getting one-shot by Garp Admirals and Emperors are both unbeatable monsters... might as well add commanders to that list as they also have no problem with him.  Or maybe the dude thought that Garp was the standard for Marine Admirals.
> 
> ...



@Bold. This.

The Yonko are the people who clashed with Prime WB, Roger and even Garp. The Yonko are the most powerful pirates on the planet. *The Admirals are the marine's strongest forces however they don't have the same hype. *Outside of Garp and possibly Sengoku, we have nothing telling us that any of the admirals are on par with Big Mom, Kaido, Shanks and even WB and Roger.

* Maybe Akainu will be revealed to be on that level in the future*, idk, however as it is now we don't know. Also the story would make no sense if the marines had Gion, Tokikake, Fuijitora, Kizaru, Greenbull and Akainu right now and each of them were comparable to Shanks/Big Mom/Kaido. Ignoring Garp, Sengoku and possibly Kuzan undercover, that's 6 Kaidos running around.

How does it make sense that there are at least 6 people like Big Mom (Gion and Tokikake were considered for admiral so they would at least be in that tier) in the marines yet the world is in the state it is?

 Why can't 2 admirals just wipe out an emperor and their crew?

Why didn't they just wipe out WB, his commanders and his crew and allies since there were allegedly 3 Kaidos/Big Moms in the form of the colour trio?

Also if that were the case Aokiji allying with Blackbeard should warrant more shock and awe around the world than it did. *For the Admirals = Emperors logic to apply that should be like 2 Blackbeards on a crew or 2 Big Moms, Kaidos, Shanks etc.* Even without Aokiji having a crew, 2 emperor leveled people joining would still warrant more of a reaction than we got. Can you imagine Kaido joining Big Mom's crew after he loses his or something? This should be the same thing had Aokiji = Shanks/Big Mom/Kaido been a thing. Therefore the fact that BB is NOT the strongest emperor and could still be stopped by the others, despite supposedly having a former admiral with him, also debunks the admiral > emperor or admiral = emperor narrative. 

There are marines on par with the emperors however not every admiral automatically is. So far we only have one confirmed case and it's a VA Garp who was considered for Admiral. In the future we may get more.

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## GreenBull956 (Oct 25, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> BM fought Garp and Roger before and still has no scars. None of Akainu’s attacks are putting holes in her or giving her 3rd degree burns


Well now i think scars are .... emotional attachment , or whatever it was mentioned by @Tenma 

Katakuri's Mogura Drill took a chunk of Luffy , yet it left no scar . 

Zoro also was bloodied by Mr 1 , yet Zoro doesn't have any scar from him .

Etc. ( Luffy having no scar from Lucci , Garp having no scar from Rocks/Whitebeard/Kaido/Big Mom )

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## Sengoku (Oct 25, 2019)

It's funny how people like to bring up the argument as to why if the Marines had admirals on par with the emperors but then why don't they just destroy the emperors to begin with since they outnumber them?

Funny. Because isn't the world government the dominate entity in the entire one piece world? 

Why doesn't the United States military (WG) just destroy North Korea (Emperors) considering how strong their military might is? Because it is easier said than done.

Reactions: Like 5


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 26, 2019)

Sengoku said:


> It's funny how people like to bring up the argument as to why if the Marines had admirals on par with the emperors but then why don't they just destroy the emperors to begin with since they outnumber them?
> 
> Funny. Because isn't the world government the dominate entity in the entire one piece world?
> 
> Why doesn't the United States military (WG) just destroy North Korea (Emperors) considering how strong their military might is? Because it is easier said than done.


Yes. The Marines reign supreme.

Reactions: Like 5


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## CaptainCommander (Oct 26, 2019)

20 pages later and Admiral base is still in denial about where they stand even in their own ranks.

I don't see grief coming so someone could just close this round about thread already.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 26, 2019)

AmitDS said:


> @Bold. This.
> 
> The Yonko are the people who clashed with Prime WB, Roger and even Garp. The Yonko are the most powerful pirates on the planet. *The Admirals are the marine's strongest forces however they don't have the same hype. *Outside of Garp and possibly Sengoku, we have nothing telling us that any of the admirals are on par with Big Mom, Kaido, Shanks and even WB and Roger.
> 
> ...


Garp was basically an Admiral and Sengoku was an Admiral. Both of them probably clashed with Roger and Prime WB more than Kaido or Big Mom. When Whitebeard remembers Rogers era, he thought of those two. Not Kaido and Big Mom.

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## TheWiggian (Oct 26, 2019)

Yonk riders alrdy begging to stop this thread. 

Marines reign supreme.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Blade (Oct 26, 2019)

personal preference 

yonko = admirals

story wise and facts

admirals ARE > yonko

end of story

Reactions: Like 4


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## TheWiggian (Oct 26, 2019)

Blade said:


> personal preference
> 
> yonko = admirals
> 
> ...



The words of a wise, successful and powerful man.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Blade (Oct 26, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> The words of a wise and powerful man.




also

the yonko stans are more terrible than your average fairy tail fan

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheWiggian (Oct 26, 2019)

Blade said:


> also
> 
> the yonko stans are more terrible than your average fairy tail fan



They remind me of itachi stanZ.


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## RossellaFiamingo (Oct 26, 2019)

Imagine holding such grand and false delusions as to think Admrial>Yonko.... whew lad...if that’s the case, I have some snake oil to sell to you poor souls.

You guys should check your Thymine levels to make sure you’re not deficient..

Reactions: Like 2


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## Blade (Oct 26, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> They remind me of itachi stanZ.




yeah, terrible

Reactions: Like 1


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## RossellaFiamingo (Oct 26, 2019)

Blade said:


> yeah, terrible


Rep me guy I’m an Admiral fan too

Reactions: Like 1


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## Yuji (Oct 26, 2019)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Garp was basically an Admiral and Sengoku was an Admiral. Both of them probably clashed with Roger and Prime WB more than Kaido or Big Mom. When Whitebeard remembers Rogers era, he thought of those two. Not Kaido and Big Mom.



Kaido and Big Mom hadn't even been mentioned at that point in the story much less introduced, why would Whitebeard start throwing in random names?

Also Buggy was mentioned andnot Krocus or Rayleigh in Whitebeard's memory of Roger's crew, it really doesn't mean anything.

Garp is the only one to have direct hype with Roger and Rocks, his hype puts him far beyond a mere admiral. Although it has admittedly declined with his age. Sengoku and the others don't even begin to compare.

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## Steven (Oct 26, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> And Akainu came out right after and went further after Luffy and Jinbei melting his way through underground. The gap was there and WB was still referred to as the top dog.


Cool,like i said,he survived due to plotarmor

Yet,Deadbeard still trashed BB


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## TheWiggian (Oct 26, 2019)

Yuji said:


> Kaido and Big Mom hadn't even been mentioned at that point in the story much less introduced, why would Whitebeard start throwing in random names?
> 
> Also Buggy was mentioned andnot Krocus or Rayleigh in Whitebeard's memory of Roger's crew, it really doesn't mean anything.
> 
> Garp is the only one to have direct hype with Roger and Rocks, his hype puts him far beyond a mere admiral. Although it has admittedly declined with his age. Sengoku and the others don't even begin to compare.



One would assume other Yonkou would get some praise from Bossbeard. 

Only Shanks and Mihawk were acknowledged by him.


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 26, 2019)

Yuji said:


> Kaido and Big Mom hadn't even been mentioned at that point in the story much less introduced, why would Whitebeard start throwing in random names?
> 
> Also Buggy was mentioned andnot Krocus or Rayleigh in Whitebeard's memory of Roger's crew, it really doesn't mean anything.
> 
> Garp is the only one to have direct hype with Roger and Rocks, his hype puts him far beyond a mere admiral. Although it has admittedly declined with his age. Sengoku and the others don't even begin to compare.


1j Yes they were. Garp mentions them when he meets Luffy.

2) No he wasn’t. Whitebeard only mentions Garp and Sengoku in the same breath as Roger.

3) Garp was Admiral level. Ther is no one that’s far above an Admiral.

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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 26, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> One would assume other Yonkou would get some praise from Bossbeard.
> 
> Only Shanks and Mihawk were acknowledged by him.


I guess that those scrubs just weren’t worth remembering.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Sabco (Oct 26, 2019)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> Imagine holding such grand and false delusions as to think Admrial>Yonko.... whew lad...if that’s the case, I have some snake oil to sell to you poor souls.
> 
> You guys should check your Thymine levels to make sure you’re not deficient..



You all are in denial and need snake oils  

Yonko >> admirals Issho, Ryokugyu and Kizaru
but Yonko = Akainu

if there's no one that could stand up to a Yonko then they could fuck up the Marine HQ any time they want. in the past the marine had hero Garp but now he is old and weaker.


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## TheWiggian (Oct 26, 2019)

Lee-Sensei said:


> I guess that those scrubs just weren’t worth remembering.



I wouldn't like to be associated with a drunkard and an obese retard either.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Yuji (Oct 26, 2019)

Lee-Sensei said:


> 1j Yes they were. Garp mentions them when he meets Luffy.
> 
> 2) No he wasn’t. Whitebeard only mentions Garp and Sengoku in the same breath as Roger.
> 
> 3) Garp was Admiral level. Ther is no one that’s far above an Admiral.



Garp mentions the 'yonko', Big Mom and Kaido don't get mentioned until a much later date. In fact I believe it took over 200 chapters later for Big Mom to get mentioned.

LOL they both mention Buggy, and don't even bring up Rayleigh or Scopper. Your logic would dictate Buggy is greater than all of them. It's just a memory, all it means is that Sengoku and Garp are old AF.

Garp was well beyond admiral level if his hype is true and he did clash evenly with Roger/Rocks. However we still don't know that that's what happened but it's a good assumption at this point. Sengoku and the others don't compare to this at all.


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## TheWiggian (Oct 26, 2019)

Yuji said:


> Garp mentions the 'yonko', Big Mom and Kaido don't get mentioned until a much later date. In fact I believe it took over 200 chapters later for Big Mom to get mentioned.
> 
> LOL they both mention Buggy, and don't even bring up Rayleigh or Scopper. Your logic would dictate Buggy is greater than all of them. It's just a memory, all it means is that Sengoku and Garp are old AF.
> 
> Garp was well beyond admiral level if his hype is true and he did clash evenly with Roger/Rocks. However we still don't know that that's what happened but it's a good assumption at this point. Sengoku and the others don't compare to this at all.



They mention Rayleigh in a different scenario and scale him to WB's legendary status. Try again.

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## CaptainCommander (Oct 26, 2019)

I am legit curious. For all of y'all who drink the kool-aid that Admirals=Yonko=End!Game, who da hell you predicting they pair up with? They all just gonna gang up on Luffy and get the cell Jr. Treatment.


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## Sabco (Oct 26, 2019)

@TheWiggian throughout this thread :


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 27, 2019)

Yuji said:


> Garp mentions the 'yonko', Big Mom and Kaido don't get mentioned until a much later date. In fact I believe it took over 200 chapters later for Big Mom to get mentioned.
> 
> LOL they both mention Buggy, and don't even bring up Rayleigh or Scopper. Your logic would dictate Buggy is greater than all of them. It's just a memory, all it means is that Sengoku and Garp are old AF.
> 
> Garp was well beyond admiral level if his hype is true and he did clash evenly with Roger/Rocks. However we still don't know that that's what happened but it's a good assumption at this point. Sengoku and the others don't compare to this at all.


1) You’re just making excuses. The simple fact of the matter is that when Whitebeard thinks of the legends of the past, he thinks primarily of Garp, Sengoku and Roger. In another scenario, Rayleigh is grouped with him by Garp. Also, Kaido and Big Mom were both mentioned in the very next Arc.

2) No he didn’t. He remembers Buggy being on the ship with Shanks and mentions that Shanks came along way since his days as a Cabin boy. He then asks him if Buggy was dead. When he thinks about the legends of the past, he thinks of Roger, Garp and Sengoku.

3) Nope. He wasn’t. Garp was Admiral level. You’re issue, is that you don’t seem to accept that Admirals are Top Tiers like the Yonkou. They are. There are only a handful of people stronger than them and even then, the strength difference isn’t overwhelming. No one character is beating two Admirals. Just ask Shiki.

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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 27, 2019)

CaptainCommander said:


> I am legit curious. For all of y'all who drink the kool-aid that Admirals=Yonko=End!Game, who da hell you predicting they pair up with? They all just gonna gang up on Luffy and get the cell Jr. Treatment.


The Cell Jr.s beat Goku. Does that mean that you think they Admirals are going to beat Luffy?

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## Shiroryu (Oct 27, 2019)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> Imagine holding such grand and false delusions as to think Admrial>Yonko.... whew lad...if that’s the case, I have some snake oil to sell to you poor souls.
> 
> You guys should check your Thymine levels to make sure you’re not deficient..


Neg reps coming in 3...2...1...


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## AmitDS (Oct 27, 2019)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Garp was basically an Admiral and Sengoku was an Admiral. Both of them probably clashed with Roger and Prime WB more than Kaido or Big Mom. When Whitebeard remembers Rogers era, he thought of those two. Not Kaido and Big Mom.



I already said Garp and Sengoku, both of whom are not the admirals talked about here i.e. the color trio + greenbull and fujitora.

Garp and Sengoku are not representative of the current admirals or the admiral ranks as a whole, so my point stands. _As of now _we only have concrete proof that Garp and is on the level of the emperors since both him and Prime WB clashed equally with Roger (Sengoku most likely is on that level as well). Furthermore when Garp talks about WB he talks about Shanks and then Big Mom and Kaido as well, when the gorosei talk about BB as a threat, they talk about Big Mom and Kaido being able to each stop him, when Big Mom talks about Shanks, she talks about Kaido as well, when Sengoku talks about the Rocks and WB, he talks about Big Mom and Kaido as well.

*I do not doubt that an admiral can be or one is on par with an emperor. *What I am saying however is that the yonko all are on a certain level of power whereas the admirals, admiral candidates and former admirals/fleet admirals are:

 1) not all equal to one another by feats or hype 
 2) unlike the title of emperor, being an admiral or an admiral candidate doesn't guarantee that one is able to challenge an emperor.

 Garp is refused the admiral position numerous time so he's basically an admiral yet he is on par with WB/Roger while Fujitora, another admiral is not shown or hyped to be as powerful as Kaido, Big Mom or Shanks.

Big Mom is an emperor and has been shown clashing equally with another, Kaido. Shanks is an emperor and was shown clashing equally with WB. Roger and Garp fought Kaido, Big Mom and WB in the past. The emperors as a group have been stated and hinted to be on the same level. Kaido is on the same level as Big Mom, Shanks is on the same level as WB as one of the emperors who are the 4 strongest pirates alive; Big Mom, Kaido and Shanks are each capable of stopping Blackbeard, another emperor.


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 27, 2019)

AmitDS said:


> I already said Garp and Sengoku, both of whom are not the admirals talked about here i.e. the color trio + greenbull and fujitora.
> 
> Garp and Sengoku are not representative of the current admirals or the admiral ranks as a whole, so my point stands. _As of now _we only have concrete proof that Garp and is on the level of the emperors since both him and Prime WB clashed equally with Roger (Sengoku most likely is on that level as well). Furthermore when Garp talks about WB he talks about Shanks and then Big Mom and Kaido as well, when the gorosei talk about BB as a threat, they talk about Big Mom and Kaido being able to each stop him, when Big Mom talks about Shanks, she talks about Kaido as well, when Sengoku talks about the Rocks and WB, he talks about Big Mom and Kaido as well.
> 
> ...


There’s no indication that the Admirals are significantly weaker than their old generation counterparts.

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## Kroczilla (Oct 27, 2019)

Lee-Sensei said:


> There’s no indication that the Admirals are significantly weaker than their old generation counterparts.



Rayleigh being certain that he could have handled kizaru, sentumaru and the pacifistas simultaneously if he was younger certainly hints at the older generation of Admirals being absolute monsters.
Though tbh, it seems like garp was carrying most of the weight for the marines during the roger era.


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## Sherlōck (Oct 27, 2019)

Kizaru says Rayleigh holding an Admiral makes him look bad. 

And he wasn't even serious while Ray was fighting to help SHC escape .

Reactions: Like 1


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## AmitDS (Oct 27, 2019)

Lee-Sensei said:


> There’s no indication that the Admirals are significantly weaker than their old generation counterparts.



Absence of proof is not proof. There is no indication that any one of them right now is  comparable to Garp/Prime WB/Roger or even Shanks/Kaido/Big Mom/BB. Nothing indicates that Kizaru for example could fight Garp/Prime WB/Roger and equal them as was the case with Garp vs Roger many times. We however do know that WB clashed equally with Roger just as Garp did and that Big Mom and Kaido are of comparable strength to WB as the 4 emperors are hailed as pirates on the same level and the strongest pirates alive.

*As I said before, maybe some of them will be shown to be comparable to Garp in the future, but as of now, there is no evidence of that claim*, despite what people online, in the West, may say. However there is evidence that the yonko are comparable to one another, and even Roger/Prime WB/Garp, as the strongest pirates alive.


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## Yuji (Oct 27, 2019)

Lee-Sensei said:


> ) You’re just making excuses. The simple fact of the matter is that when Whitebeard thinks of the legends of the past, he thinks primarily of Garp, Sengoku and Roger.



Whitebeard wasn't talking about legends of the past, he was talking about people who remember the seas the way they were back then. It is a manga fact that Kaido and Big Mom hadn't been introduced yet so I'm not sure what excuse you're referring to.

Sengoku has never been described as legendary in his life.



Lee-Sensei said:


> You’re issue, is that you don’t seem to accept that Admirals are Top Tiers like the Yonkou.



I don't really subscribe to your ridiculous tier system, but since you're using it to say admirals are in the same league as the Yonko I'd have to say no they aren't and it has been proven multiple times in this thread.

Without using memes or headcanon - as is popular in this thread to avoid responding to the points - give a good response to  then maybe we can talk about putting admirals anywhere close to the Yonko.



Sherlōck said:


> Kizaru says Rayleigh holding an Admiral makes him look bad.
> 
> And he wasn't even serious while Ray was fighting to help SHC escape .



Wrong.

Kizaru said holding back an admiral and *implying he would have been able to do more* makes him look bad. As Rayleigh seemed to say if he were younger he could have fought Kizaru, Kuma, Sentomaru and the Pacifista all at the same time without them touching the Straw Hats.

Kizaru already admitted that he couldn't take on Rayleigh by himself.


And Kizaru was much more serious in that fight than Rayleigh, he used 2 named attacks, whilst Rayleigh just trolled around with a sword he hadn't picked up in over a decade, he didn't even throw out an attack he just blocked Kizaru.


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## GreenBull956 (Oct 27, 2019)

My opinion is that Rayleigh could've escaped from Kizaru's pressure in his prime ( i think he was pressured that's why he huffed and puffed )

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sherlōck (Oct 27, 2019)

Yuji said:


> Wrong.
> 
> Kizaru said holding back an admiral and *implying he would have been able to do more* makes him look bad. As Rayleigh seemed to say if he were younger he could have fought Kizaru, Kuma, Sentomaru and the Pacifista all at the same time without them touching the Straw Hats.
> 
> ...



If you want to make up your own interpretation and try to pass it up as fact then I have nothing to say.


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 27, 2019)

Kroczilla said:


> Rayleigh being certain that he could have handled kizaru, sentumaru and the pacifistas simultaneously if he was younger certainly hints at the older generation of Admirals being absolute monsters.
> Though tbh, it seems like garp was carrying most of the weight for the marines during the roger era.


He never said that. Not that it matters. Sentomaru and the Pacifista are relatively strong, but they’re fodder to an Admiral. They weren’t playing in the same league.


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## Kroczilla (Oct 27, 2019)

Sherlōck said:


> Kizaru says Rayleigh holding an Admiral makes him look bad.


No. Kizaru stated that Rayleigh talking about being able to rescue the SHs whilst holding off an Admiral was making him (kizaru) look bad.



Sherlōck said:


> And he wasn't even serious while Ray was fighting to help SHC escape





Yuji said:


> Wrong.
> 
> Kizaru said holding back an admiral and *implying he would have been able to do more* makes him look bad. As Rayleigh seemed to say if he were younger he could have fought Kizaru, Kuma, Sentomaru and the Pacifista all at the same time without them touching the Straw Hats.
> 
> ...


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 27, 2019)

AmitDS said:


> Absence of proof is not proof. There is no indication that any one of them right now is  comparable to Garp/Prime WB/Roger or even Shanks/Kaido/Big Mom/BB. Nothing indicates that Kizaru for example could fight Garp/Prime WB/Roger and equal them as was the case with Garp vs Roger many times. We however do know that WB clashed equally with Roger just as Garp did and that Big Mom and Kaido are of comparable strength to WB as the 4 emperors are hailed as pirates on the same level and the strongest pirates alive.
> 
> *As I said before, maybe some of them will be shown to be comparable to Garp in the future, but as of now, there is no evidence of that claim*, despite what people online, in the West, may say. However there is evidence that the yonko are comparable to one another, and even Roger/Prime WB/Garp, as the strongest pirates alive.


You’re the one making the claim that they’re far above the Admirals, so it’s up to you to prove that. For the record, if Akainu is on their level (his DF has the highest offensive power of all, he could find One Piece in a year etc.), than Aokiji should be right up there with him since he fought him for 10 days. Arguably with a type disadvantage. Also, if Akainu and Aokiji are at that level, I don’t see why we should assume that Kizaru was significantly weaker than his colleagues.


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## Kroczilla (Oct 27, 2019)

Lee-Sensei said:


> He never said that. Not that it matters. Sentomaru and the Pacifista are relatively strong, but they’re fodder to an Admiral. They weren’t playing in the same league.




Also kuma himself was present when Rayleigh made the statement.


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 27, 2019)

Yuji said:


> Whitebeard wasn't talking about legends of the past, he was talking about people who remember the seas the way they were back then. It is a manga fact that Kaido and Big Mom hadn't been introduced yet so I'm not sure what excuse you're referring to.
> 
> Sengoku has never been described as legendary in his life.
> 
> ...


1) The Pirate King, the Hero of the Marines and the Fleet Admiral. He could have mentioned The other two Emperors? He could have mentioned Rayleigh. He could have mentioned Tsur or probably John Giant. He just happened to mention the greatest Pirate and the two greatest Marines.

2) 

*Spoiler*: __ 








You’re entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

2) I wasn’t linked to a specific post.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sherlōck (Oct 27, 2019)

Kroczilla said:


> No. Kizaru stated that Rayleigh talking about being able to rescue the SHs whilst holding off an Admiral was making him (kizaru) look bad.






Sherlōck said:


> If you want to make up your own interpretation and try to pass it up as fact then I have nothing to say.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kroczilla (Oct 27, 2019)

Lee-Sensei said:


> I can’t see that, I’m assuming that you’re linking to Rayleigh mentioning his age. The implication seemed to me that he would eventually lose, but that if he was in his Prime, he would stand a chance of winning in a very hard fight. No one is stomping an Admiral in One Piece.


Now you're just making shit up.
Rayleigh never in anyway imply that he would lose. Quite the opposite actually hence kizaru took offense with that comment.
Not to mention along with being well past his prime, Rayleigh had been in retirement for well over a decade.
No one can outright stomp an admiral but based on Rayleigh's statement, kizaru's own statement (implied that he himself would not be sufficient to capture Rayleigh) and old, dying WB feats, a good case exists to the effect that legendary pirates in their prime could have bodied the current crop of Admirals.


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## GreenBull956 (Oct 27, 2019)

Yuji said:


> _''Navy and Schichibukai balance out the Yonko'' _- Garp to Luffy
> 
> But seem to disregard the fact that the Yonko are not allied and it's actually Yonko vs Yonko vs Yonko vs Yonko vs Marines + Warlords


The Yonko/4 Emperor crews , are lumped into 1 Great Power which is why it's called "3 Great Powers" not 6

The Balance of 3 Great Powers = 2 Allied Great Powers counterbalance 1 Great Power ( Marines + 7 Warlords and Crews counterbalance 4 Emperor Crews )

It might not be always exactly/100 % balanced though , like , their powers fluctuate ( 7 Warlords getting Weevil who is as strong as young Whitebeard , Beasts Pirates getting Hawkins and Apoo as Allies , or getting Hawkins and Page One defeated , or Big Mom Pirates getting Bege Germa Jinbei as Allies but lost them recently

Marines also recently lost 7 Warlords and Crews , though they are about to get incredible weapon from their SSG )

I'll try to list Marines and Shichibukai's counters to parts of Emperor crews , based on my opinions :

*Top Tiers *:

• Marines :
- Akainu ,
- and World Government's "Ultimate Military Force" 3 Admirals - Kizaru , Fujitora , Ryokugyu

the 3 Admirals as a whole was also described as "the Greatest Power in Marines/Navy"

- Sengoku ( Low Top Tier )
- Garp ( Low Top Tier as well )

• 7 Warlords and crews : World's Strongest Swordsman Mihawk

• 4 Emperor crews :
- World's Strongest Creature Kaido
- Big Mom
- Shanks
- Teach
___________________

*YC1/First Mate level fighters* :
• Marines : Chaton and Momousagi ( who were Admiral candidates )

• 7 Warlords and crews : Weevil ( who was said to be as strong as young Whitebeard )

• 4 Emperor crews : Beckmann Katakuri King Shiryuu Lucky Roo

Imo Beckmann and Weevil are above everyone else in this category actually , but not by much
____________________

*YC3-YC2 level fighters* :
• Marines : Tsuru , John Giant , Ronse

• 7 Warlords and crews : Doflamingo and fresh Kuma

• 4 Emperor crews : Queen Jack Smoothie Cracker Blackbeard's 2nd and 3rd Yasopp , and someone else from Red Haired Pirates i guess ? since apparently have higher average power level than other Emperor crews

Kyoshiro could be here as well
_____________________

*Snack level fighters/the strongest fighters after YC3 level fighters *:
*• *Marines : X Drake ( SWORD Captain , and [Blocked Domain] member )

- 5 Buster Call Vice Admirals : Doberman Momonga Onigumo Yamakaji Strawberry

• 7 Warlords and Crews : Hancock and [Blocked Domain] member Trafalgar Law ( at least pre Dressrosa Law )

• 4 Emperor crews : Snack , Jinbe ( ? ) , Bege ( ? ) , Hawkins , some from Red Haired Pirates
_____________________

*Veteran/Flying 6 level fighters *:
• Marines : Smoker , Stainless , Dalmatian , Bastille

• 7 Warlords and crews : Pica Vergo Trebol Diamante

• 4 Emperor crews : Perospero , Daifuku , Oven , Compote , Page One , and other 4 Flying 6 , and a bunch of people from Blackbeard Pirates and Red Haired Pirates i guess ( Burgess and Apoo could be here )
___________________

*Giant members of the 3 Great Powers :*

i noticed these members of 3 Great Powers all have gigantic sizes which led me to think they are parallels to each other

Also their positions are indeed the same imo , below Veteran level fighters of each organizations , and less relevant as well than Veteran level fighters :

- John Giant is an exception to this imo , because he has better portrayal than even 5 Buster Call Vice Admirals ,

- Ronse is an exception too because he outshined the other Marines Giants Squad ( Ronse is a member of Giants Squad ) , and arguably got more highlight than 5 Buster Call Vice Admirals as well

Oda used him to hype up Whitebeard , and blocked/clashed with Vista and someone else from Whitebeard Pirates and Allies ( maybe one of 43 Allies ) , Izo ( WB's 16th Commander ) was seen about to attack him too at the same time

Meanwhile other Giants Squad members just got matched up with Oars Jr.

Let's start the parallels :

• Marines : Giants Squad , 7 members outside Ronse , one is named Lacroix , the other 6 are unknown

• 7 Warlords and crews : 5 Giants from Elbaf i think , from Buggy's Delivery

Hajrudin-Stansen-Rodo-Goldberg-Gerd





• 4 Emperor crews :
- Beasts Pirates : 5 members of Numbers

- Blackbeard Pirates : San Juan Wolf

- Big Mom Pirates : 1 unamed Giant

- Red Haired Pirates : - ( none ) , no member of Red Haired Pirates is a Giant so far , maybe they will be shown to have later at least 1 member ( but this is a speculation )
________________________________________

Also , 7 Warlords and crews legit looked like an Emperor crew when combined , which could very well mean they were supposed to counterbalance 1 Emperor crew while Marines counterbalance 3

infact , the actual plan of Marineford was to pit 7 Warlords vs Whitebeard Pirates as stated/implied by Doflamingo
( the plan probably was prepared by Marines' strategists Sengoku and Tsuru )

There was this as well "5 people ( which are 5 Warlords ) ready to decide outcome of the battle"

Anyway , 7 Warlords and crews :
- World's Strongest Swordsman Dracule Mihawk
- Weevil ( stated to have similar strength to young Whitebeard - at least - Kizaru )
- Doflamingo
- Kuma ( should've been fresh )
- Hancock
- Law
- Buggy

Donquixote Pirates :
Pica , Vergo , Trebol , Diamante , Sugar , Giolla , Violet , Lao G , Dellinger , Machvise , Senor Pink , Buffalo , Baby 5 , Gladius , Monet , Caesar Clown , Kyuin , Bellamy Pirates , Fodders

Buggy's Delivery :
Hajrudin , Stansen , Rodo , Goldberg , Gerd , Alvida , Mohji , Cabaji , 3 Tightrope Walking Funan Brothers , Galdino , Richie , Kinoko , Impel Down Inmates ( and Whitebeard said they - Impel Down Inmates could be troublesome )

Heart Pirates :
Shachi , Penguin , Bepo , Jean Bart , Ikkaku , Uni , Clione , 7 other unamed members

Kuja Pirates :
Sandersonia , Marigold , Sweet Pea , Aphelandra , Ran , Daisy , Blue Fan , Cosmos , Rindo , Marguerite , Yuda Snakes , Bacura , Salome

I'll make how they matched up :

Mihawk - Big Mom ( Top Tiers )
Weevil - Katakuri ( Weevil is stronger imho )
Doflamingo - Smoothie ( Doflamingo wins imo )
Fresh Kuma - Cracker
Hancock - Snack ( for me they are on the same level but i can see Hancock winning because Snack constantly got shited on by Oda while Hancock got hyped by Fleet Admiral Sengoku and former Admiral Aokiji )

Law - 2 Veterans ( Law's treatment to Vergo , a Veteran level character led me to match him up against 2 Veteran lvl fighters from Big Mom Pirates , let's say Perospero and Daifuku )

Pica and Vergo ( 2 Veteran level characters ) - 2 Veterans from Big Mom Pirates - Oven and Compote ( can see Pica - especially Golem Pica and Vergo winning this )

Hajrudin Stansen Rodo Golberg Gerd
( Giant members ) vs this unamed Giant member from Big Mom Pirates

( the 5 Elbaf Giants from Buggy's Delivery stomps )

Overall until so far , 7 Warlords and crews looked similar to this Emperor crew

The rest vs the rest



Yuji said:


> _''Do you believe we can take on 2 legends at the same time?''_- Garp on Rayleigh


he was talking about how it's a bad time to take them on , which doesn't necessarily mean Navy would lose

The destructions WB caused to Marineford was a bad thing .

Also we saw Navy took one of them and his crew , and won .


Yuji said:


> _''We would have to prepare ourselves in more ways than one if we were to even attempt to capture you''_ - Kizaru to Rayleigh


It could just mean that Rayleigh could still retreat with force that Kizaru brought , which doesn't necessarily mean Kizaru is weaker than him , Rayleigh is still capable of giving hard fight to Kizaru though


Yuji said:


> Whitebeard one shots Ace in his sleep, whilst Akainu with devil fruit superiority couldn't do it and needed Ace to jump in front of an attack aimed at Luffy to kill him.


Ace just got a bloody nose though after Whitebeard's attack if i remember correctly , while he got a burned arm after Akainu's attack

Also Ace just used an Axe for Whitebeard , while he used Fire Fist for Akainu


Yuji said:


> _''If they were to make a return it would be an incident far beyond our imagination to do anything about'' _- Garp on Rocks


It wasn't like this in VIZ , or Cnet128


Yuji said:


> _''All the forces required just to stop those 2 from meeting are here at reverie'' _- Garp on Big Mom and Kaido


"anyone would be capable of stopping them is here dedicated to protecting the Royalty" in Cnet128 , if i recall correctly


Yuji said:


> _''Don't go thinking we can overcome him with military might alone, we might actually be the ones to meet our end'' _- Sengoku on Whitebeard


Ok that's because Whitebeard had the power to sink an island , though the Marines-Shichibukai side were nerfed and i could argue their nerfs were greater than Whitebeard Pirates'


Yuji said:


> ''We were unable to lay a finger on you, you were being protected by Whitebeard himself''


They would have to send considerable force to go and take on Whitebeard Pirates in their territory though , but that would weaken their strength in Headquarters , and they also have the role to guard Celestial Dragons in Mariejois , which is right behind Old Marineford , or New Marineford , guard against potential attacks from Revolutionary Army and 3 other Emperor crews , so maybe they couldn't send a force to Whitebeard Pirates territory because of this

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## Yuji (Oct 27, 2019)

^ Good effort post but most of these come under headcanon



GreenBull956 said:


> *he was talking about *how it's a bad time to take them on , which doesn't necessarily mean Navy would lose





GreenBull956 said:


> *It could just mean* that Rayleigh could still retreat





GreenBull956 said:


> *Ok that's because* Whitebeard had the power to sink an island





GreenBull956 said:


> *but that would* weaken their strength in Headquarters, and they also have the role to guard Celestial Dragons in Mariejois



None of these excuses are stated or implied, do you have panels or quotes to back up literally any of these statements?



GreenBull956 said:


> The Yonko/4 Emperor crews , are lumped into 1 Great Power which is why it's called "3 Great Powers" not 6



So I take it you believe 7 Warlords = Marines, since they're lumped into 1 great power?

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## Kroczilla (Oct 27, 2019)

@GreenBull956 
You sure love jumping through hoops.


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## GreenBull956 (Oct 27, 2019)

Yuji said:


> So I take it you believe 7 Warlords = Marines, since they're lumped into 1 great power?


No , why would i believe that ?

The balance of 3 Great Powers is 2 Great Powers ( Marines allied with 7 Warlords and crews ) counterbalance the other 1 Great Power ( 4 Emperor crews )

Commodore Brannew also showed the Balance of Powers is between 3 Great Powers ( not 6 )


Yuji said:


> None of these excuses are stated or implied, do you have panels or quotes to back up literally any of these statements?


- haven't you brought and seen that Garp panel a few times ? Garp said there "especially now is a bad time .... do you want the Navy to take on two legends at the same time ?"

You assuming the Navy would lose against Whitebeard and Rayleigh because Garp said this is also a headcanon though , that's your interpretation 

- Kizaru was talking about capturing him right ? so i think it means the force he brought could not be enough to capture him

But again this is my opinion/headcanon , but saying Kizaru's words means he and his force wouldn't be able to defeat Rayleigh is also an opinion/headcanon

- Whitebeard wanted to sink Marineford near the end of the arc

Also wasn't Sengoku worried about how destructive his power is , and hyped it several times throughout the arc

This is one example

- If Marines were to take on & defeat Whitebeard Pirates in their territory i think they would send 2 Admirals , and numerous Vice Admirals , Rear Admirals , Marine Battleships etc. , 

Which would weaken their force in Headquarters <- this is like , a fact .

Also in case you ask about how Marines is supposed to protect Celestial Dragons in Mariejois

This is from Jaiminisbox , but i'm pretty sure VIZ is similar enough
_________________________

Also i found VIZ translation for Garp's words in 907

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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 27, 2019)

Kroczilla said:


> Now you're just making shit up.
> Rayleigh never in anyway imply that he would lose. Quite the opposite actually hence kizaru took offense with that comment.
> Not to mention along with being well past his prime, Rayleigh had been in retirement for well over a decade.
> No one can outright stomp an admiral but based on Rayleigh's statement, kizaru's own statement (implied that he himself would not be sufficient to capture Rayleigh) and old, dying WB feats, a good case exists to the effect that legendary pirates in their prime could have bodied the current crop of Admirals.


Yeah he did. That’s why he couldn’t do anything while Kizaru’s subordinates were fodderizing the Strawhats and it’s why he kept mentioning his age.


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## Turrin (Oct 27, 2019)

It’s silly to imply the Admirals are all on the same ‘level’; Sabo was able to hold off Fujitora on DR. People wrote this off as Fujitora jobbing, but Sabo obviously gave him a high / extreme diff fight again during reverie. This places Fujitora around Sabo’s level. And Sabo is defiantly not at the level of Yonko. So ether Admirals are all weaker then Yonko; or there is a variation in Admiral strength with Fujitora probably being the weakest


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## TheWiggian (Oct 27, 2019)

Turrin said:


> It’s silly to imply the Admirals are all on the same ‘level’; Sabo was able to hold off Fujitora on DR. People wrote this off as Fujitora jobbing, but Sabo obviously gave him a high / extreme diff fight again during reverie. This places Fujitora around Sabo’s level. And Sabo is defiantly not at the level of Yonko. So ether Admirals are all weaker then Yonko; or there is a variation in Admiral strength with Fujitora probably being the weakest



Why do you guys pretend Fujitora fought seriously against Sabo, Zoro and Luffy but close your eyes when Meme and Kaido get embarrassed by characters around the same level?

Whats with these double standarts and hypocrisy.

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## Turrin (Oct 27, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Why do you guys pretend Fujitora fought seriously against Sabo, Zoro and Luffy but close your eyes when Meme and Kaido get embarrassed by characters around the same level?
> 
> Whats with these double standarts and hypocrisy.


First of ‘you guys’? Hope you know that I rep Admirals in most situations. And I’m one of the people who thinks Akainu is around Kaidou ‘level’. I just don’t agree with this BS that all Admirals are equal.

Second when have Kaidou and Mom been reduced to a bandaged beat up state by characters around the same level?


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## Steven (Oct 27, 2019)

I cant imagine that a Yonko getting a scratch from Sabo and Co.,like fuji did.

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## TheWiggian (Oct 27, 2019)

Turrin said:


> First of ‘you guys’? Hope you know that I rep Admirals in most situations. And I’m one of the people who thinks Akainu is around Kaidou ‘level’. I just don’t agree with this BS that all Admirals are equal.
> 
> Second when have Kaidou and Mom been reduced to a bandaged beat up state by characters around the same level?



Big Mom for example should've died a couple of times alrdy if not for plot. 
- Jinbei knocking her into the ocean
- King drowning her
- Queen capturing her

For example.

Kaido was easily knocked out of the sky and hammered back into his human form.

Do you know what exactly happened during the Reverie?

We also saw Marco who is known for his regeneration powers and Sengoku who didn't receive any injury at MF wear bandages for shits and giggles after the war.

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## TheWiggian (Oct 27, 2019)

Acno said:


> I cant imagine that a Yonko getting a scratch from Sabo and Co.,like fuji did.



I also can't imagine how a admiral dropping on his knees would start to bleed like Big Mom did.

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## Turrin (Oct 27, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Big Mom for example should've died a couple of times alrdy if not for plot.
> - Jinbei knocking her into the ocean
> - King drowning her
> - Queen capturing her
> ...


None of those instances is her being overpowered though or beat up; it’s all about circumstance and her enemy getting the drop on her. It’s no different then Monet getting the drop on Luffy in Punk Hazard. This is much different then Fujitora and Sabo fighting twice; one time equally without a conclusion, and the second time with Sabo beating the shit out of him. It’s obvious those 2 are close; so ether we need to believe Sabo is around the level of Akainu or Fujitora is weaker then him. 

Macro and Sengoku both fought enemies around their level or > in MF though, unless you want to argue Sengoku is significantly > Yami/Gura Teach; and Marco is significantly > Color trio. So that only enforced my point that Sabo posed a major threat to Fujitora. 

I also don’t know why anyone would expect Fujitora who just became an Admiral and got his DF to be equal to veteran Admirals like the Color Trio, two of which were qualified to take the next step in their career and the other just didn’t care to but was probably equally qualified.


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## Kroczilla (Oct 27, 2019)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Yeah he did.






Lee-Sensei said:


> That’s why he couldn’t do anything while Kizaru’s subordinates were fodderizing the Strawhats and it’s why he kept mentioning his age.


He couldn't do anything because he was old and clearly implied that if he were younger, he could have soloed.
The fact that he can even hold off kizaru despite being well past his prime (the same way WB bodied akainu while being literally a walking corpse) really should put paid to this silly debate.


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## TheWiggian (Oct 27, 2019)

Turrin said:


> None of those instances is her being overpowered though or beat up; it’s all about circumstance and her enemy getting the drop on her. It’s no different then Monet getting the drop on Luffy in Punk Hazard. This is much different then Fujitora and Sabo fighting twice; one time equally without a conclusion, and the second time with Sabo beating the shit out of him. It’s obvious those 2 are close; so ether we need to believe Sabo is around the level of Akainu or Fujitora is weaker then him.



We have panels of Big Mom getting hurt by Queen's brachio bomber and then being knocked out or Nami grilling her with thunder. Also Jinbei straight overpowering her with Vagabond Drill.

Where did you get Sabo beating Fujitora from? If you know more about the Reverie, bless us with your info.
How do you come to this conclusion when it's said that Sabo is either dead or captured?



Turrin said:


> Marco and Sengoku both fought enemies around their level or > in MF though, unless you want to argue Sengoku is significantly > Yami/Gura Teach; and Marco is significantly > Color trio. So that only enforced my point that Sabo posed a major threat to Fujitora.



It doesn't enforce your point because we don't see Sengoku getting hurt or implied to be hurt by BB.

And Marco can literally regenerate holes in his body but needs bandages?



Turrin said:


> I also don’t know why anyone would expect Fujitora who just became an Admiral and got his DF to be equal to veteran Admirals like the Color Trio, two of which were qualified to take the next step in their career and the other just didn’t care to but was probably equally qualified.



Because he was drafted for Admiral title based on his strenght and arguably got the DF by the marines/WG afterwards. His showings aren't worse and neither better compared to other admirals.

The only thing you could argue is intangibility.

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## GreenBull956 (Oct 27, 2019)

Turrin said:


> I also don’t know why anyone would expect Fujitora who just became an Admiral and got his DF


He said "nothing to worry about , just a little test" which doesn't necessarily mean he is new to his DF , it could mean he was testing his small Asteroid on Law & Doflamingo


Turrin said:


> Sabo was able to hold off Fujitora on DR. People wrote this off as Fujitora jobbing,


Sabo himself suspected Fujitora was wasting time if i recall correctly , and Fujitora himself wanted to use that clash with Sabo as an excuse

Maynard thought that draw result was ridiculous as well , and was suspicious of Fuji


Also compare Fuji's Raging Tiger on Luffy with the one on Sabo , it is clear that the one on Luffy was way harder as it instantly destroyed one of Dressrosa's big rocks , while the one on Sabo just bend some houses


Turrin said:


> but Sabo obviously gave him a high / extreme diff fight again during reverie


How is that obvious ? Fujitora just had a plaster and a bandage and even then we don't know how did Sabo gave him the injuries that were covered in that bandage and plaster in chapter 957 ( could be from a sneak attack )

Also those 4 Revos could very well be wrecked , since Revos in Kamabakka apparently lost contact with them

Also , this is an example of damages after an Extreme Diff fight , a lot of bloods

Another example . Aokiji after his Extreme Diff fight with Akainu , lost a limb ( leg ) , and has multiple scars

Akainu we haven't seen all of his damages , but from what we can see from his head , neck , and shoulders , his ear got chipped , and has a scar across his cheek to shoulder ( and the scar is deep at the shoulder )

Luffy vs Lucci based on general consensus is an Extreme Diff fight as well , and Luffy took a lot of damages there

High Diff , general consensus on Zoro vs Kaku is High Diff from what i saw , and Zoro took a lot of damages during that fight

Sabo definitely didn't push Fuji to Extreme Diff , High Diff .... i can't say that it was High Diff for now because the clash/fight was entirely off paneled , also there is this fact that Sabo had backing from Morley-Karasu-Lindbergh , Ryokugyu was there for Fujitora as well , we don't know how they matched up , maybe it was 2v1 and 2v1 ( for example Sabo + Lindbergh vs Fujitora , and Karasu + Morley vs Ryokugyu )

Maybe it was 1v1 and 3v1 ( for example Sabo vs Fujitora , and Karasu Morley Lindbergh vs Ryokugyu )

Maybe it was 4v2 like Rocks-Whitebeard-Kaido-Big Mom vs Roger-Garp

There is too much things that we don't know about to assume that Sabo pushed Fuji to High Diff

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## CaptainCommander (Oct 27, 2019)

Lee-Sensei said:


> The Cell Jr.s beat Goku. Does that mean that you think they Admirals are going to beat Luffy?




Ahh I see. You think Luffy is just Goku and the true Gohan is Buggy-Sama


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## CaptainCommander (Oct 27, 2019)

Luffy VS Akainu

Zoro VS Kizaru

Usopp VS Fugitora

Sanji VS Grenn Bull

Robin VS Kuzan

Franky VS Sengoku

Chopper VS Kong

& Soul King VS Garp


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## Turrin (Oct 27, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> We have panels of Big Mom getting hurt by Queen's brachio bomber and then being knocked out or Nami grilling her with thunder. Also Jinbei straight overpowering her with Vagabond Drill.
> 
> Where did you get Sabo beating Fujitora from? If you know more about the Reverie, bless us with your info.
> How do you come to this conclusion when it's said that Sabo is either dead or captured?
> ...


1. Did Big Mom ever need to be bandaged up?

2. I said Sabo beat Fujitora up, not beat him 

3. The bandages tells us both got hurt....

4. Yeah he was just enlisted by the WG, so why would he be better then Color trio who were enlisted years ago and have years of experience in the rank of Admiral taking on Admiral class missions for the Marines?

5. We’re any of the color trio shown beat up after facing someone on Sabo level? If the answer is no then his showing is worse.


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## Turrin (Oct 27, 2019)

GreenBull956 said:


> He said "nothing to worry about , just a little test" which doesn't necessarily mean he is new to his DF , it could mean he was testing his small Asteroid on Law & Doflamingo
> 
> Sabo himself suspected Fujitora was wasting time if i recall correctly , and Fujitora himself wanted to use that clash with Sabo as an excuse
> 
> ...


I said high or extreme diff. And the bandages clearly indicate it was a tough fight; Oda isn’t drawing that for no reason. 


Fujitora and Sabo didn’t go all out in their first fight; they fought again and the result was Fujitora got beat up enough to need bandages; IE a tough fight. Now compare that to Kaidou vs Luffy....


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## TheWiggian (Oct 27, 2019)

Turrin said:


> 1. Did Big Mom ever need to be bandaged up?



We didn't see bandages but we saw she was hurt.



Turrin said:


> 2. I said Sabo beat Fujitora up, not beat him



If he beat him up it's one sided and results in beating.



Turrin said:


> 3. The bandages tells us both got hurt....



When was he hurt and against who?

Marco can regenerate basically anything how was he hurt?



Turrin said:


> 4. Yeah he was just enlisted by the WG, so why would he be better then Color trio who were enlisted years ago and have years of experience in the rank of Admiral taking on *Admiral class missions* for the Marines?



This isn't Naruto 



Turrin said:


> 5. We’re any of the color trio shown beat up after facing someone on Sabo level? If the answer is no then his showing is worse.



Jozu drew blood from Aokiji. Old Rayleigh drew blood from Kizaru.

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## Steven (Oct 27, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> I also can't imagine how a admiral dropping on his knees would start to bleed like Big Mom did.


Yeah,after the photo of mother was destroyed

Nothing special.Yonkous can solos their own crew.No way Admirals can do the same


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## Turrin (Oct 27, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> We didn't see bandages but we saw she was hurt.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


1. So she wasn’t hurt that badly; while Fujitora needed medical treatment 

2. No Aokiji beat Akainu up, but he still lost; it just means Sabo did a decent amount of damage to him

3. It doesn’t matter; the author drew bandages to tell us he got hurt 

4. So Admirals aren’t sent on missions now

5. Were they in bandages?


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## TheWiggian (Oct 27, 2019)

Acno said:


> Yeah,after the photo of mother was destroyed
> 
> Nothing special.Yonkous can solos their own crew.No way Admirals can do the same



The Admirals have a crew?


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## TheWiggian (Oct 27, 2019)

Turrin said:


> 1. So she wasn’t hurt that badly; while Fujitora needed medical treatment
> 
> 2. No Aokiji beat Akainu up, but he still lost; it just means Sabo did a decent amount of damage to him
> 
> ...



1. He gets so seriously injured by Sabo to the point of needing medical treatment but gets sent right after to fight Shichibukai?

2. When did Aokiji beat up Sakazuki?

3. 
Against who and when? Where is the evidence? We have examples of character's wearing bandages without being injured or indication by narration that they were hurt.

4. What do missions have to do with character strenght?

5. They got hurt and it was clearly visible to the readers. Where was Sengoku, Fujitora and Marco with phoenix powers hurt?

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## Turrin (Oct 27, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> 1. He gets so seriously injured by Sabo to the point of needing medical treatment but gets sent right after to fight Shichibukai?
> 
> 2. When did Aokiji beat up Sakazuki?
> 
> ...


1. Yeah cause he has time to recover on his way there 

2. When they fought each other 

3. Bandages is an indication of the narrative that they were hurt; your being intellectually dishonest to assert otherwise

4. If someone goes on a ton of high level missions they are likely going to be better fighter then someone who just enlisted

5. You know what’s clearly visible to the reader: bandages. You know what clearly indicates someone was hurt badly; bandages.

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## Gianfi (Oct 27, 2019)

Tbh I would vote for the admirals only for all the effort Wiggian is putting in repeating over and over the same things hoping they magically become true


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 27, 2019)

Kroczilla said:


> He couldn't do anything because he was old and clearly implied that if he were younger, he could have soloed.
> The fact that he can even hold off kizaru despite being well past his prime (the same way WB bodied akainu while being literally a walking corpse) really should put paid to this silly debate.


So you’re admitting that Old Rayleigh probably would have lost to Kizaru?


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## Vivo Diez (Oct 27, 2019)

Even if we assume that all of the admirals outside of Akainu are slightly weaker than the average yonko, their teamwork will undoubtedly be better than the yonkos and should give them the win eventually, extreme diff.

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## Kroczilla (Oct 27, 2019)

Lee-Sensei said:


> So you’re admitting that Old Rayleigh probably would have lost to Kizaru?



All i said was old Rayleigh couldn't help the SHs and stop kizaru at the same time (as opposed to his younger self). How does that in anyway imply he loses to kizaru?

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## Vivo Diez (Oct 27, 2019)

Kroczilla said:


> All i said was old Rayleigh couldn't help the SHs and stop kizaru at the same time (as opposed to his younger self). How does that in anyway imply he loses to kizaru?


It's heavily implied he would have eventually lost, considering he was getting tired while Kizaru showed no signs of that.


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## Gianfi (Oct 27, 2019)

Vivo Diez said:


> Even if we assume that all of the admirals outside of Akainu are slightly weaker than the average yonko, their teamwork will undoubtedly be better than the yonkos and should give them the win eventually, extreme diff.


Friendly reminders that 3 Yonko were in the same crew (WB, BM and Kaido). They probably are as used at fighting together as any of color trio admirals


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## Vivo Diez (Oct 27, 2019)

Gianfi said:


> Friendly reminders that 3 Yonko were in the same crew (WB, BM and Kaido). They probably are as used at fighting together as any of color trio admirals


3 yonkos? You don't even have WB in this matchup. Kaido and BM might have some teamwork, but they've also been shown to be completely unstable in terms of their rivalry/friendship and them being good at working together is completely an assumption.

Meanwhile, we have admirals doing combo attacks on panel.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gianfi (Oct 27, 2019)

Vivo Diez said:


> 3 yonkos? You don't even have WB in this matchup. Kaido and BM might have some teamwork, but they've also been shown to be completely unstable in terms of their rivalry/friendship and them being good at working together is completely an assumption.
> 
> Meanwhile, we have admirals doing combo attacks on panel.


 yeah, this debate has been open for so much time that I forgot which Yonko I even put here


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## Yuji (Oct 27, 2019)

Vivo Diez said:


> Meanwhile, but we have admirals doing combo attacks on panel.



Not really, we only have admirals attacking one after the other missed that's not a combo, the closest they came was when they all had to stand up to block Whitebeard's attack, but again, that's not a combination attack

If anything, they get in each other's way


Clearly not in sync

Also, it doesn't really matter how in sync they are since the power gap is so wide. 4 children can never stand up to 4 adults no matter how good their teamwork is.


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## Vivo Diez (Oct 27, 2019)

Yuji said:


> was when they all had to stand up to block Whitebeard's attack, but again, *that's not a combination attack*


It literally was.


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## TheWiggian (Oct 27, 2019)

Turrin said:


> 1. Yeah cause he has time to recover on his way there
> 
> 2. When they fought each other
> 
> ...



1. How? Why not send Kizaru who isn't doing anything anyway chilling at the base? If we assume Fujitora would really be so hardly injured like you claim it's absolutely idiotic for a calculating man like Sakazuki to send him into the battle with Kizaru smoking weed in the neighbour office.

2. They both beat each other up.

3. Iam intellectually dishonst to question a character's regeneration who has been introduced to recover from any wound? Or a character who didn't participate in the war except sending a few shockwaves. 

4. Then why weren't the 2 recommended VA's drafted who work for the marines for decades?

5. Again at point 3 
Why would a character like Marco need bandages? Or Sengoku who wasn't even touched by the enemy?


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## TheWiggian (Oct 27, 2019)

Gianfi said:


> Friendly reminders that 3 Yonko were in the same crew (WB, BM and Kaido). They probably are as used at fighting together as any of color trio admirals



All those 3 Yonko and their captain were destroyed by Roger and Vice Admiral Garp

Reactions: Like 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 27, 2019)

Vivo Diez said:


> 3 yonkos? You don't even have WB in this matchup. Kaido and BM might have some teamwork, but they've also been shown to be completely unstable in terms of their rivalry/friendship and them being good at working together is completely an assumption.
> 
> Meanwhile, we have admirals doing combo attacks on panel.


Good point. That crew also broke up decades ago and they were noted to have had a bad relationship within the crew.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Steven (Oct 27, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> The Admirals have a crew?


Not the Point

A Yonkou can solo his/her own Crew,but no way can a admiral solo a Yonkou crew(No Captain)

Reactions: Like 1


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## Turrin (Oct 27, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> 1. How? Why not send Kizaru who isn't doing anything anyway chilling at the base? If we assume Fujitora would really be so hardly injured like you claim it's absolutely idiotic for a calculating man like Sakazuki to send him into the battle with Kizaru smoking weed in the neighbour office.
> 
> 2. They both beat each other up.
> 
> ...


1. Dude we see Luffy and other characters recover from severe injuries quickly all the time.  This is nothing new 

2. That’s literally what I said 

3. Your intellectually dishonest to say the author spent time drawing bandages on a character he doesn’t want us to think was wounded. 

4. The two VAs weren’t taking on Admiral class mission ether they were taking on VA mission. I don’t see what your not getting here, when someone becomes an Admiral they are expected to take on higher level tasks and enemies then the othe Marines 

5. It’s doesn’t matter if you don’t understand why they need them; they needed them because the author drew them in


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## TheWiggian (Oct 27, 2019)

Acno said:


> Not the Point
> 
> A Yonkou can solo his/her own Crew,but no way can a admiral solo a Yonkou crew(No Captain)



What makes you say that? Admiral's have the portrayal of not being hurt by FM's and YC's during MF and can go all out for over a week with island sized DC which will swallow up all those fodders.



Turrin said:


> 1. Dude we see Luffy and other characters recover from severe injuries quickly all the time.  This is nothing new
> 
> 2. That’s literally what I said
> 
> ...



1. When? Luffy needs to recover for days after heavy battles just like Zoro. Or are Fujitora's wounds negligible at best and you give bandages too much attention with chars in the manga just wearing them despite not even being shown to be hurt.

2. So Sabo didn't just beat up Fujitora?



			
				Turrin said:
			
		

> This is much different then Fujitora and Sabo fighting twice; one time equally without a conclusion, and the second time with Sabo beating the shit out of him.



3. So who hurt Fujitora i can't seem to find any panels and how it happened, same with Sengoku and i still can't find out why a character like Marco needs bandages.

4. Dude gtfo with your naruto missions shit. The only thing related to admiral rank duties is the protection of celestial dragons that we know of and neither the VA's or pre Marine Fujitora did those.

5. Those bandages simply contradict what was shown, nothing else. That's why i question them and no one could give a logical explanation why uninjured characters wear them.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Gianfi (Oct 27, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> All those 3 Yonko and their captain were destroyed by Roger and Vice Admiral Garp


None of them were Yonko. Though I’m sure that if you’ll repeat this post for another 20-30 pages oda will eventually retcon it


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## TheWiggian (Oct 27, 2019)

Gianfi said:


> None of them were Yonko. Though I’m sure that if you’ll repeat this post for another 20-30 pages oda will eventually retcon it



Neither were Roger and Garp at their peak. Still >>> than them.


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## Turrin (Oct 27, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> What makes you say that? Admiral's have the portrayal of not being hurt by FM's and YC's during MF and can go all out for over a week with island sized DC which will swallow up all those fodders.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


1. Fujitora voyage on the ship likely took days 

2. He beat him up; Sabo state we don’t know 

3. We know it’s likely Sabo

4. So we haven’t seen Admirals put in charge of handling more dangerous enemies then the VAs

5. I don’t care what you think they contradict the author is drawing them for a reason


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## CaptainCommander (Oct 27, 2019)

lol Admiral teamwork

Kuzan would rather switch teams and fight them then team with Akainu

Isso has no respect for Akainu either

Kizaru is too mentally challenged to even spell teamwork

Closest they came was blocking a single quake, and immediately pointed out their lack of synergy afterwards.


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## TheWiggian (Oct 27, 2019)

Turrin said:


> 1. Fujitora voyage on the ship likely took days
> 
> 2. He beat him up; Sabo state we don’t know
> 
> ...



1. So you don't know how much time passed? 

2. Sabo is said to be dead or captured on the other hand, BB is interested to pick them up which could've resulted in a collision with a Yonk.

3. Just like we know it was likely Teach who injured Sengoku? 

4. Then what's your point of admiral rank missions? 



			
				Turrin said:
			
		

> 4. Yeah he was just enlisted by the WG, *so why would he be better then Color trio who were enlisted years ago and have years of experience in the rank of Admiral taking on Admiral class missions for the Marines?*





			
				Turrin said:
			
		

> 4. *If someone goes on a ton of high level missions they are likely going to be better fighter then someone who just enlisted*





			
				Turrin said:
			
		

> 4. The two *VAs weren’t taking on Admiral class mission ether they were taking on VA mission.* I don’t see what your not getting here, *when someone becomes an Admiral they are expected to take on higher level tasks and enemies then the othe Marines*





			
				Turrin said:
			
		

> 4. *So we haven’t seen Admirals put in charge of handling more dangerous enemies then the VAs*



So what are Admiral rank missions broh??? You're the special-jõnin here. 

Or are you just a troll?

5. So you're eating contradictions like a good boy as long as it fits your narrative. 

Like Admiral rank missions which are no different to VA rank mission yet Garp refused to become admiral.

Reactions: Like 2


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## T.D.A (Oct 27, 2019)

Would be an intense fight but Yonko would win if they decided to work together and not stab each other in the back lol.


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## Steven (Oct 27, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> What makes you say that? Admiral's have the portrayal of not being hurt by FM's and YC's during MF and can go all out for over a week with island sized DC which will swallow up all those fodders.


Yeah,thanks to shapeshifting,not via tanking the attacks

Island size DC after 10 days of fighting,not in a instant.Marco can tank the AoE attacks(On-Panel) and Kata can dodge them via FS


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## TheWiggian (Oct 27, 2019)

Acno said:


> Yeah,thanks to shapeshifting,not via tanking the attacks
> 
> Island size DC after 10 days of fighting,not in a instant.Marco can tank the AoE attacks(On-Panel) and Kata can dodge them via FS



Your point? Result is the same they don't get hurt. Even here Admirals look superior in skill doing so.


*Spoiler*: __ 











Instantaneous island level DC. 
You won't win this fight. Admirals have some of the best feats of the manga.

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## T.D.A (Oct 27, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Neither were Roger and Garp at their peak. Still >>> than them.



Why wouldn't Roger and Garp be at their peak when aged ~ 40 years old?


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## TheWiggian (Oct 27, 2019)

T.D.A said:


> Why wouldn't Roger and Garp be at their peak when aged ~ 40 years old?



Because Roger was not the PK back then and Garp just became famous as the Hero of the Marines afterwards, being spread as the devil among pirates and faced Chinjao years later who he trained for. So there was still room for improvement.


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## Gledania (Oct 27, 2019)

T.D.A said:


> Why wouldn't Roger and Garp be at their peak when aged ~ 40 years old?



We saw garp training to detroy chinjao's head. This implies he kept getting stronger.

As for roger , he was facing WB after that who was known as WSM *even before roger.*

This could imply WB became the strongest after eating the gura gura, and roger had to train to be at his level.


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## T.D.A (Oct 27, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Because Roger was not the PK back then and Garp just became famous as the Hero of the Marines afterwards, being spread as the devil among pirates and faced Chinjao years later who he trained for. So there was still room for improvement.



Prime is a period of time not a singular point in time, you can still get better at certain things while being in your prime. 

Also Garp training is just his character, dude is the type to destroy mountains as training for fun, he enjoys it. He could have defeated Chinjao without pulverizing 8 mountains.

Roger being PK later on is related to achievement not power level.


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## TheWiggian (Oct 27, 2019)

T.D.A said:


> Prime is a period of time not a singular point in time, you can still get better at certain things while being in your prime.
> 
> Also Garp training is just his character, dude is the type to destroy mountains as training for fun, he enjoys it. He could have defeated Chinjao without pulverizing 8 mountains.
> 
> Roger being PK later on is related to achievement not power level.



Nice that you're teaching me what prime means. I appreciate the words of a wise man


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## T.D.A (Oct 27, 2019)

Gledania said:


> *We saw garp training to detroy chinjao's head. This implies he kept getting stronger.*
> 
> As for roger , he was facing WB after that who was known as WSM *even before roger.*
> 
> This could imply WB became the strongest after eating the gura gura, and roger had to train to be at his level.



No it doesn't. Garp training is Garp training, that's his character.


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## GreenBull956 (Oct 27, 2019)

Turrin said:


> I said high or extreme diff. And the bandages clearly indicate it was a tough fight; Oda isn’t drawing that for no reason.
> 
> 
> Fujitora and Sabo didn’t go all out in their first fight; they fought again and the result was Fujitora got beat up enough to need bandages; IE a tough fight. Now compare that to Kaidou vs Luffy....


Well it could be a Low end of High Difficulty fight at best , or High end of Mid Difficulty at worst , which still can be considered a tough fight

But saying "Sabo pushed Fuji to High or Extreme Difficulty" is jumping the gun , how do you know that the match up was Fujitora vs Sabo , and Morley-Karasu-Lindbergh vs Ryokugyu ?

Also assuming Sabo did pushed Fuji to High Diff , this doesn't necessarily put Sabo close to him ( overall ) still .

I mean Fujitora could very well have Awakening of his Gravity DF , and he definitely couldn't pull Asteroids in Mariejois , so he was restricted .

Sabo on the other hand definitely doesn't have Awakening yet , though he still could have been restricted too if Morley-Karasu-Lindbergh were too close to him ( but i think his restriction was nowhere near Fujitora's assuming Fuji has Awakening )

Too much things we don't know about this clash between 2 Admirals and 4 Revos .
____________________

Also after thinking about it again , it wasn't necessarily a High Diff just because Fujitora got a bandage and a plaster , i mean Doflamingo got his cheek cut ( and drew blood of course ) during his fight with Law on the bridge between Dressrosa and Green Bit , yet the Difficulty i think was in Low-Mid range because Doflamingo still washed him fast , also Law was unsconcious , and drew a lot more bloods than Doffy

Doflamingo also wasn't using Awakening , from what we saw though , by the way

Another example : Magellan had his forehead bloodied after clash with Ivankov ; yet the Difficulty was still in Low-Mid range imo , because Magellan washed him fast

The last time we saw Magellan when facing Ivankov , he also wasn't using Venom Demon , which is his most lethal and powerful ( he said it could destroy Impel Down ) type of his Poison to date , by the way

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## AmitDS (Oct 28, 2019)

Lee-Sensei said:


> You’re the one making the claim that they’re far above the Admirals, so it’s up to you to prove that. For the record, if Akainu is on their level (his DF has the highest offensive power of all, he could find One Piece in a year etc.), than Aokiji should be right up there with him since he fought him for 10 days. Arguably with a type disadvantage. Also, if Akainu and Aokiji are at that level, I don’t see why we should assume that Kizaru was significantly weaker than his colleagues.



I never said they're far above the admirals though so if you got that from me saying they were on the same level with one another and comparable to WB who was comparable to Roger and Garp well you're just helping the Yonko > Admiral thing.

We just know the difference in hype, portrayal and even feats in terms of their performances against YC. Take from that what you wish.

I said Akainu can _later_  be revealed to be on their level  or _reach that level later_ on neither of which is confirmed nor resulting in him and the rest of the color trio being on par with the Emperors _now  _and is really only because he's a prominent villain to be faced later on so even that's not confirmed. Even that is me just theorizing and throwing the Admirals a bone in this discussion. I have however already said that _confirmed_ hype etc. places the emperors, Garp, Roger and WB on the highest tier.

That's the real issue here. The Emperors have an established position whilst the Admirals are depending on future developments to push the color trio and greenbull & fujitora to that tier. 

I personally think Sengoku and Tsuru should be comparable to Garp but that's just my wish and headcanon. I don't have proof, which is something people on this forum usually beg for when it suits them, now when it's about their favs or their side of the argument suddenly proof of the admirals being on par with the yonko is not needed to state as such and opinions matter.


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## Sherlōck (Oct 28, 2019)

Acno said:


> Marco can *tank *the AoE attacks(On-Panel) and Kata can dodge them via FS


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Oct 28, 2019)

Kaidou and Big Mom duo it all with mid diff.

This isn't even up to contention, the only reason I say Kaidou couldn't potentially solo is cuz there are 4 and not 3.


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 28, 2019)

AmitDS said:


> I never said they're far above the admirals though so if you got that from me saying they were on the same level with one another and comparable to WB who was comparable to Roger and Garp well you're just helping the Yonko > Admiral thing.
> 
> We just know the difference in hype, portrayal and even feats in terms of their performances against YC. Take from that what you wish.
> 
> ...


It doesn’t place the zemperors on the level of Roger at all. If anything, it would place Sengoku and Garp on that level. As far as hype, feats and portrayal goes, they’re all on the same level.


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## Steven (Oct 28, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Your point? Result is the same they don't get hurt. Even here Admirals look superior in skill doing so.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


WB has the best feat in OP.

Iceage was not islandlevel DC.We do not know how deep the ice was


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## Steven (Oct 28, 2019)

Sherlōck said:


>


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## Sabco (Oct 28, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Your point? Result is the same they don't get hurt. Even here Admirals look superior in skill doing so.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



That's instantaneous multi island level DC :

( from someone who got bitched by WB )


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## Corax (Oct 28, 2019)

Strongest mass manipulation and DC feats actually belong to Fujitora. Even non awakened his DF is the strongest. But gravity powers tends to be OP in most verses.

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheWiggian (Oct 28, 2019)

Acno said:


> WB has the best feat in OP.
> 
> Iceage was not islandlevel DC.We do not know how deep the ice was



Oda: "Aokiji froze the ocean allowing the civilists to travel onto multiple islands by feet".

Acno: "Iceage was not islandlevel DC". 



Edward-Teach said:


> That's instantaneous multi island level DC :
> 
> ( from someone who got bitched by WB )



Nice so the gura and hie fruits cover huge areas and therefore are basically equal in DC from what we've seen so far. WB is said to be able to destroy the world but from what we have seen the best he achieved on panel is tilting the sea around MF just like the quakes that created MF sized tsunamis from miles away.


*Spoiler*: __

Reactions: Like 1


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Oct 28, 2019)

Acno said:


> WB has the best feat in OP.
> 
> Iceage was not islandlevel DC.We do not know how deep the ice was


And all he was doing is freezing water that already existed, not creating ice.


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## TheWiggian (Oct 28, 2019)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> And all he was doing is freezing water that already existed, not creating ice.



WB was tilting water that also alrdy existed


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## Turrin (Oct 28, 2019)

GreenBull956 said:


> Well it could be a Low end of High Difficulty fight at best , or High end of Mid Difficulty at worst , which still can be considered a tough fight
> 
> But saying "Sabo pushed Fuji to High or Extreme Difficulty" is jumping the gun , how do you know that the match up was Fujitora vs Sabo , and Morley-Karasu-Lindbergh vs Ryokugyu ?
> 
> ...


Did those people need bandages after those fights, no, then it’s irrelevant.


You have to understand that the only reason the author bothered to draw bandages was to tell readers that Sabo gave Fujitora a tough fight. If he didn’t want readers to think this; he simply wouldn’t have drawn those bandages. Oda isn’t thinking I’m going to draw bandages, but my readers will know Fujitora really wasn’t going all out and the bandages weren’t necessary. It’s silly dude.


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## Turrin (Oct 28, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> 1. So you don't know how much time passed?
> 
> 2. Sabo is said to be dead or captured on the other hand, BB is interested to pick them up which could've resulted in a collision with a Yonk.
> 
> ...



Literally none of your response made sense.


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## AmitDS (Oct 28, 2019)

Lee-Sensei said:


> It doesn’t place the zemperors on the level of Roger at all. If anything, it would place Sengoku and Garp on that level. As far as hype, feats and portrayal goes, they’re all on the same level.



Sengoku is not confirmed on Roger's level. *Garp and WB are the only 2 said to be his equals.* Big Mom, Shanks and Kaido are said to be on the same level as WB and as such *they are all in the same general tier even if Prime WB/Roger is stronger by a bit. *This is what the narrative supports so far. The deadlock formed by the yonko itself indicates that Kaido and Big Mom were of comparable strength to WB who was also a notable member of the Rocks with them. Feats hype and portrayal put the emperors on the highest level with Garp, Roger and Prime WB, of this tier, likely being the strongest characters in the series thus far.

Regardless, this has nothing to do with the fact that the admirals (color trio, fujitora and greenbull) do not have comparable hype and feats.

Reactions: Like 2


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## CaptainCommander (Oct 28, 2019)

We need a new poll to wager how long dis thread will go on for


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 28, 2019)

AmitDS said:


> Sengoku is not confirmed on Roger's level. *Garp and WB are the only 2 said to be his equals.* Big Mom, Shanks and Kaido are said to be on the same level as WB and as such *they are all in the same general tier even if Prime WB/Roger is stronger by a bit. *This is what the narrative supports so far. The deadlock formed by the yonko itself indicates that Kaido and Big Mom were of comparable strength to WB who was also a notable member of the Rocks with them. Feats hype and portrayal put the emperors on the highest level with Garp, Roger and Prime WB, of this tier, likely being the strongest characters in the series thus far.
> 
> Regardless, this has nothing to do with the fact that the admirals (color trio, fujitora and greenbull) do not have comparable hype and feats.


1) Garp actually wasn’t stated to be his equal, but it was heavily implied that Garp and Sengoku were close to their level. I imagine that Roger and Prime WB would beat them with high difficulty.

2) Big Mom, Shanks and Kaido were stated to be Emperors. They weren’t stated to be on his level.

3) WB doesn’t even have any interest in One Piece. He just wanted a family. More than that, Oda said that Akainu could find One Piece in a year. That means that he’s at the level of the Emperors. If he is at their level, Aokiji is too since he’s slightly weaker than Akainu. If Aokiji and Akainu are Yonkou level, it would be odd for Kizaru to be the only one noticeably weaker than the Emperors.

4) They do have comparable hype. Feats are debatable. It depends on what you’re comparing specifically. Akainu and Aokiji have better stamina feats, they all have advanced CoA and it’s implied that they have future sight, they have logia’s That are almost certainly awakened and Akainu was physically strong enough to stop Whitebeard bisento slash and counter his quake punch. That’s just for starters.

Reactions: Like 1


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## GreenBull956 (Oct 28, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Did those people need bandages after those fights, no, then it’s irrelevant.
> 
> 
> You have to understand that the only reason the author bothered to draw bandages was to tell readers that *Sabo gave Fujitora a tough fight*. If he didn’t want readers to think this; he simply wouldn’t have drawn those bandages. Oda isn’t thinking I’m going to draw bandages, but my readers will know Fujitora really wasn’t going all out and the bandages weren’t necessary. It’s silly dude.


Doflamingo didn't need it , Magellan i don't remember

*Again you're jumping the gun . Morley-Karasu-Lindbegh were with Sabo , and Ryokugyu was there with Fujitora*

Fujitora def wasn't going all out though , because he couldn't . you think he could pull Asteroids in Mariejois ? also if you think Fujitora's Awakening as being powerful as Akainu's/Aokiji's then he definitely couldn't use this either .


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## Kylo Ren (Oct 28, 2019)

Gledania said:


> This could imply WB became the strongest after eating the gura gura, and roger had to train to be at his level.


the WSM title way before roger is still credible? I mean it could be one of those fake info just like Shanks.


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## Seraphoenix (Oct 28, 2019)

Fujitora’s bandages mean nothing now? Pathetic


GreenBull956 said:


> Doflamingo didn't need it , Magellan i don't remember
> 
> *Again you're jumping the gun . Morley-Karasu-Lindbegh were with Sabo , and Ryokugyu was there with Fujitora*
> 
> Fujitora def wasn't going all out though , because he couldn't . you think he could pull Asteroids in Mariejois ? also if you think Fujitora's Awakening as being powerful as Akainu's/Aokiji's then he definitely couldn't use this either .


Yeah that big asteroid sure was going to do a lot of damage to logia Sabo Most of the top tier fights we’ve seen get settled in close combat. Not by spamming big AOE attacks.

Reactions: Like 2


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## AmitDS (Oct 28, 2019)

Lee-Sensei said:


> 1) Garp actually wasn’t stated to be his equal, but it was heavily implied that Garp and Sengoku were close to their level. I imagine that Roger and Prime WB would beat them with high difficulty.
> 
> 2) Big Mom, Shanks and Kaido were stated to be Emperors. They weren’t stated to be on his level.
> 
> ...



1) Roger said Garp and him fought one another many times. Garp is also known for cornering Roger many times as well. Garp was a marine hero for defeating Rocks with Roger at his side. That's enough to say that Garp is on WB/Roger's level.
*Link Removed*

*Link Removed* *Link Removed*


2) Shanks is said to be on WB's level as one of the 4 emperors who are the strongest pirates around, by Garp. Emperor is a level. Also the Gorosei said that Big Mom, Kaido and Shanks are capable of stopping BB (and MAYBE Marco with WB'S FORCES) and Big Mom held Shanks and Kaido on the same level with regards to being rivals to her. So unlike the Admirals, the emperors have a certain level carved out and shown in the story right now.

*Link Removed*
*Link Removed*

3) WB having interest in OP has nothing to do with this discussion about power levels. Furthermore Oda's comment about ending OP in a year _if he was the protagonist instead of Luffy_ . And again you are relying on your assumptions and headcanons to claim that this statement means that he is currently as powerful as Shanks/Kaido/Big Mom and that means the rest of the color trio are too. It's a reach and a weak argument. * And since the actual protagonist who is taking so long may be defeating him and the Emperors this s*tatement holds less and less water i.e. it would mean Akainu at his current strength ripping through all of the enemies and issues Luffy faced since pre time skip.

4) They do not have comparable hype. They are known as the navy's strongest warriors however Kaido is known as the WSC, WB in his prime is known as the strongest pirate/man and equal of Roger, Big Mom is the longest reigning emperor and a notable pirate along with WB/Kaido since Rocks' era, Shanks shot up to emperor as a younger pirate and is someone who shit that Marineford war down by saying so. The fact that the are called the strongest pirates, people like WB are counted among them, they are stated to be on the same level, they are rivals with one another and we have seen even the navy shit their pants at the thought of fighting them either as a single yonko crew or in the form of 2 emperors partnering up all hypes them as above the color trio for now. There is no proof that Kizaru > Kaido, Kuzan > Big Mom, Akainu > Shanks, Fujitora > WB or Greenbull > Blackbeard for example.

And if we want to talk about feats, they were fighting a weakened, sick WB who was not using haki properly and they also were fighting and being affected by his top commanders, Jozu, Vista and Marco and stopped by Shanks' commanders. Luffy (YC leveled) was beaten by Kaido with one attack and Queen  (YC) was defeated by O Lin who had no memories, no df/haki in use, not even Big Mom. And I can also say that the emperors each awakened the DF they have and that they have the 3 types of haki mastered.

Reactions: Like 1


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Oct 28, 2019)

Lee-Sensei said:


> 1) Garp actually wasn’t stated to be his equal, but it was heavily implied that Garp and Sengoku were close to their level. I imagine that Roger and Prime WB would beat them with high difficulty.
> 
> 2) Big Mom, Shanks and Kaido were stated to be Emperors. They weren’t stated to be on his level.
> 
> ...


1) Garp and Roger were stated to be people who nearly killed each other countless times, that's a bigger rival situation than Whitebeard's "they were equal rivals", which could mean anything. Maybe Whitebeard's fruit allowed him to hang with Roger at sea, or any other things. Sengoku isn't on their level, he's a strategic mind, prime sengoku is probably close to someone like akainu/aokiji/kizaru than  anything, or he's around that level now. Garp outright should be able to drop whitebeard without all the nerfs.

2) The emperor system doesn't function without a rivalry of strength, when kaidou just one hit katakuri leveled luffy, the crews aren't all that important as the main force (the yonkou themselves). Whitebeard and Shanks wouldn't put up with atrocities of Big Mom and Kaidou if they were able to, and kaidou and big mom would take the land of shanks if they could. The balance exists because the yonkou at least rival each other, and that is a healthier whitebeard in old age, not a sickly post heart attack whitebeard who was hit 1000 times before fighting akainu and 2 hitting him. Overall: Healthy Whitebeard = or > Kaidou > Big Mom > Shanks > Whitebeard as he was going into marineford > or = Current Blackbeard > Whitebeard who fought Akainu

They are close enough that a power balance exists, but not exact equals. Someone like akainu being a yonkou wouldn't last, he'd be defeated and his land taken.

3) It doesn't stop the fact that he wouldn't agree with what the other pirates were doing, same with Shanks. None of the admirals are yonkou leveled, they are distinctly first mate level, a heavily nerfed whitebeard dropped akainu with 2 hits, and whitebeard was so weak going into marineford before all the other nerfs (squard stab, heart attack, vice admiral ganks, akainu mid heart attack attack where he couldnt' defend himself, etc) that crocodile visibly roared in anger that whitebeard wasn't that weak (which marco chimed in it was because of the sickness). Kaidou, Big Mom, and Shanks balanced a healthy old whitebeard who had thatch in his crew.

4) Only aokiji has a future sight showing, akainu likely has awakening as his + ability.


A massively nerfed whitebeard dropped akainu in 2 hits, whitebeard even with his sickness without the squard hit (which caused the heart attack, free hit, vulnerable enough to be attacked by a group of vice admirals, etc) would have still dropped akainu with 2 hits, but without being hit himself, and that whitebeard was weaker than kaidou, big mom, and shanks.


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 29, 2019)

AmitDS said:


> 1) Roger said Garp and him fought one another many times. Garp is also known for cornering Roger many times as well. Garp was a marine hero for defeating Rocks with Roger at his side. That's enough to say that Garp is on WB/Roger's level.
> *Link Removed*
> 
> *Link Removed* *Link Removed*
> ...


1) Without context, you can’t say that he was equal to Roger. Buggy nearlay killed Luffy. We’re they equals. Obviously, Garp isn’t the same as a Buggy, but the point remains. At his peak, only a Whitebeard was his equal.

2) It’s interesting that you mention Garp being at his side against Roger, since a Oda has done this with Garp and a Sengoku far more

3) Level could be referring primarily to his influence and that’s sick and old Whitebeard. It’s not Prime Whitebeard.

4) you do remember that Blackbeard ran from Akainu without backup. He had his entire crew including a giant that dwarfs Little Oars Jr., the darkness fruit and the quake fruit, but he ran away from him. He didn’t think that they could beat him.

5) It’s not about him being the protagonist, it’s about his powe. He could have mentioned anyone else, but he chose Akainu as an example of a character that would be overpowered and difficult to write a story around, because of his strength.

6) WB used Haki on Aokiji and we can infer that he used future sight to avoid his attack. He has to use Haki against them. They’re logias.

7) When was Akainu effected by His Commanders?

8) It was implied that Shanks Commanders are stronger then their counterparts and Kizaru still attacked Luffy.

10) Did Big Mom have future sight?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kylo Ren (Oct 29, 2019)

Lee-Sensei said:


> 1) Without context, you can’t say that he was equal to Roger. Buggy nearlay killed Luffy. We’re they equals. Obviously, Garp isn’t the same as a Buggy, but the point remains.


Comparing Buggy to Garp where we have him as one of the reasons the strongest pirates crew at that time disbanded. Clearly roger statement helps a lot.


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 29, 2019)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> 1) Garp and Roger were stated to be people who nearly killed each other countless times, that's a bigger rival situation than Whitebeard's "they were equal rivals", which could mean anything. Maybe Whitebeard's fruit allowed him to hang with Roger at sea, or any other things. Sengoku isn't on their level, he's a strategic mind, prime sengoku is probably close to someone like akainu/aokiji/kizaru than  anything, or he's around that level now. Garp outright should be able to drop whitebeard without all the nerfs.
> 
> 2) The emperor system doesn't function without a rivalry of strength, when kaidou just one hit katakuri leveled luffy, the crews aren't all that important as the main force (the yonkou themselves). Whitebeard and Shanks wouldn't put up with atrocities of Big Mom and Kaidou if they were able to, and kaidou and big mom would take the land of shanks if they could. The balance exists because the yonkou at least rival each other, and that is a healthier whitebeard in old age, not a sickly post heart attack whitebeard who was hit 1000 times before fighting akainu and 2 hitting him. Overall: Healthy Whitebeard = or > Kaidou > Big Mom > Shanks > Whitebeard as he was going into marineford > or = Current Blackbeard > Whitebeard who fought Akainu
> 
> ...


I answered most of this in the other posts.

1) Kizaru had a similar feat against Whitebeard. Why would Akainu be the only colour Admiral without it? Aokiji probably has an awakened Logia too. Punk Hazard was probably the result of their awakenings.

2) A bloodlusted Whitebeard failed to put down Akainu. Akainu was probably holding back, since he didn’t want to destroy Marineford and he has island+ DC and the highest offensive abilities of all Devil Fruit users. He was still able to melt Whitebeard brain. He tanked his quake punches and then he went on to overpower the core fighters of his Crew including Marco and Vista on his own. Only Josie was absent, because he had his arm shattered by Admiral Aokiji.

3) Yonkou fans that think the Emperors are significantly above the Admirals and Mihawk are setting themselves up for disappointment.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 29, 2019)

Don King said:


> Comparing Buggy to Garp where we have him as one of the reasons the strongest pirates crew at that time disbanded. Clearly roger statement helps a lot.


I already said that. How about this. Smoker cornered a Luffy multiple times and he had him pinned with his jutte multiple times. Are they equals?


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## Kylo Ren (Oct 29, 2019)

Lee-Sensei said:


> I already said that. How about this. Smoker cornered a Luffy multiple times and he had him pinned with his jutte multiple times. Are they equals?


make sense, but they made the statement in their strongest form we should take it differently why conclude in such a negative way? instead of the positive? when in God valley they portrayed as equal even in that conversation in ID.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Oct 29, 2019)

Lee-Sensei said:


> I answered most of this in the other posts.
> 
> 1) Kizaru had a similar feat against Whitebeard. Why would Akainu be the only colour Admiral without it? Aokiji probably has an awakened Logia too. Punk Hazard was probably the result of their awakenings.
> 
> ...


1 is false.

2 is false.

3 is lol.

Let's go over 2 and 3 though.

2) Akainu was holding back so much that he was face first, unable to move as he slowly fell into a crevice that whitebeard created in the ground while whitebeard just stood there not even bothering to attack him again. All after whitebeard came into marineford sick and heavily nerfed by it (as stated by crocodile and marco), was stabbed by his strongest ally (who would normally be unable to do it, even as an ally, ace was fodderized by whitebeard in his sleep like big mom treated jinbei in her sleep), had a heart attack, akainu got a free hit during the heart attack (pumping lava into whitebeard's heart or chest), a group of vice admirals ganked him, etc etc. He still dropped akainu. But hey, you think akainu is going to beat kaidou, big mom, and shanks? People who rivaled whitebeard in old age with little to not health issues? Idiotic fanfiction.

3) Mihawk's best feat is stalemating Vista.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Oct 29, 2019)

Lee-Sensei said:


> 1) Without context, you can’t say that he was equal to Roger. Buggy nearlay killed Luffy. We’re they equals. Obviously, Garp isn’t the same as a Buggy, but the point remains. At his peak, only a Whitebeard was his equal.
> 
> 2) It’s interesting that you mention Garp being at his side against Roger, since a Oda has done this with Garp and a Sengoku far more
> 
> ...


Cute how you're using pre timeskip blackbeard, when he was literally just ace leveled + the gura gura, he barely beat ace. The rest of his crew but shiryuu is also worthless against a logia, and akainu was objectively backed up by vice admirals, rear admirals, etc, you act like akainu was going off alone and operating a marine ship alone and all that. You really don't have any reading comprehension, do you?

Marco clashed equally with Akainu and Marco/Vista hurt him with that attack, it just wasn't maiming, but they were unnamed attacks and marco wasn't in awakened zoan or anything.

Big Mom doesn't need future sight, and she likely doesn't have it cuz she's simple, but she'd just pound someone's face in while nuking the area with elements and shit.


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## Steven (Oct 29, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> I accept your concession, now you can go and discuss how hard Kakashi's thousands of ninja missions were ranging from D to S rank.
> 
> 
> 
> It was deep enough to stay intact up to 1 week. How didn't Ice Age give this result?


Give me the correct number,otherwise it stays unknown


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## Steven (Oct 29, 2019)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> He's not creating ice, he's simply creating the cold.
> 
> Whitebeard is doing a destruction feat.
> 
> Edit: Still would kill the fuck out of me with my knife, sword, and unarmed martial arts trianing as I desperately flail around at him, but it's less impressive than creating that much ice out of thin air or the water particles in the air. Overall it's an outlier feat like whitebeard's "destroy the world" feat where if he attacks a fault or something, his small earthquakes can create big ones, or birdcage for doflamingo.


Aokiji is made out of Ice...

This guy can produce ice as long he has stamina/energy left


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Oct 29, 2019)

Acno said:


> Aokiji is made out of Ice...
> 
> This guy can produce ice as long he has stamina/energy left


What an irrelevant fact, that has nothing to do with what anyone said, and doesn't prove your point.

Yet you do that smug emote? Kind of idiotic if you ask me.


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## TheWiggian (Oct 29, 2019)

Acno said:


> Give me the correct number,otherwise it stays unknown



What number man? Children see that it clearly covered the ocean between islands


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## Turrin (Oct 29, 2019)

GreenBull956 said:


> Doflamingo didn't need it , Magellan i don't remember
> 
> *Again you're jumping the gun . Morley-Karasu-Lindbegh were with Sabo , and Ryokugyu was there with Fujitora*
> 
> Fujitora def wasn't going all out though , because he couldn't . you think he could pull Asteroids in Mariejois ? also if you think Fujitora's Awakening as being powerful as Akainu's/Aokiji's then he definitely couldn't use this either .


If Oda wanted us to assume Fujitora is much stronger then Sabo he would have just not drawn Fujitora with bandages.

Rather then your premise which is; he’s going to draw bandages on Fujitora indicating it was a tough fight but count on readers to fill in the blanks that Fujitora couldn’t go all out, but Sabo could (although he probably wouldn’t ether if their were innocent people around), which is why Fujitora had a tough time. Oda not going to waste his time that way.


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## Steven (Oct 29, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> What number man? Children see that it clearly covered the ocean between islands


No prove that the whole part was frozen,from top to bottom

Gimme a number how deep it was otherwise you have the AoE range for ace age but not a DC output


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## TheWiggian (Oct 29, 2019)

Acno said:


> No prove that the whole part was frozen,from top to bottom
> 
> Gimme a number how deep it was otherwise you have the AoE range for ace age but not a DC output



You have an idea how deep it is when you look at MF and the sea king that was fully frozen and it's still island level because of the area he froze easily reaching for kilometers or miles if you prefer that.

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## Vengeance (Oct 29, 2019)

Fujitora in bandages was a letdown, dude isn't on C3 level unfortunately.


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## Old Man Van (Oct 29, 2019)

Vengeance said:


> Fujitora in bandages was a letdown, dude isn't on C3 level unfortunately.



Fuji without using his haki or gravity got bruised by Luffy. Fujitora having bandages when 

1. He can use his gravity like his wants cause of Marijoies
2. Sabo can fly through his gravity
3. Fuji cant flatten anyone since Morley can make the ground soft. 
4. Garp had a bandage a few days after MF when the only damage he took was a punch to the ground from preskip Luffy.

It makes sense that Fuji would be part mummy.

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## Edogawa (Oct 29, 2019)

Acno said:


> No prove that the whole part was frozen,from top to bottom
> 
> Gimme a number how deep it was otherwise you have the AoE range for ace age but not a DC output



DC is irrelevant since the nature of Aokiji's DF doesn't destroy something in a sense of busting (battle forum term). How would ice exactly destroy, say a mountain, for example?

As far as deepness, Jozu pulled an iceberg which was several times larger than giants. So his Ice Age is very deep, as in hundreds of meters deep.


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## Edogawa (Oct 29, 2019)

Oda portrays them on the same level, but by showings the Admirals are clearly shown to be stronger so far. From having the most overpowered Devil Fruits, island-level DC, immense Haki mastery and best physicals. Yonkos are pretty underwhelming as far as showings. This may change later on.


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## Steven (Oct 29, 2019)

Edogawa said:


> Oda portrays them on the same level, but by showings the Admirals are clearly shown to be stronger so far. From having the most overpowered Devil Fruits, island-level DC, immense Haki mastery and *best physicals*. Yonkos are pretty underwhelming as far as showings. This may change later on.


BM and Kaido is a thing,you know that right?


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## Old Man Van (Oct 29, 2019)

Edogawa said:


> Oda portrays them on the same level, but by showings the Admirals are clearly shown to be stronger so far. From having the most overpowered Devil Fruits, island-level DC, immense Haki mastery and best physicals. Yonkos are pretty underwhelming as far as showings. This may change later on.



Exaggerating pretty heavy there buddy.


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## Shiroryu (Oct 29, 2019)

Edogawa said:


> Oda portrays them on the same level, but by showings the Admirals are clearly shown to be stronger so far. From having the most overpowered Devil Fruits, island-level DC, immense Haki mastery and best physicals. Yonkos are pretty underwhelming as far as showings. This may change later on.


Kaido has a Dragon Mythical Zoan DF. His DF is in the same tier as the Admirals’.
Who cares about island level DC in a 1v1?
Best physicals? Lmao. 

Tell me more about how Admirals have better showings when Fuji and Ryo get pushed to mid diff by Sabo and 3 dudes <= Ivankov while Kaido and BM lol diff Luffy and Queen


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## Sabco (Oct 29, 2019)

Blackbeard's DC shits on Big Mom's and Kaido's durability. he and Whitebeard are the only impressive Yonko when it comes to AP. a casual attack from gura can decimate both.


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## TheWiggian (Oct 29, 2019)

Edward-Teach said:


> Blackbeard's DC shits on Big Mom's and Kaido's durability. he and Whitebeard are the only impressive Yonko when it comes to DC. a casual attack from gura can decimate both.



A quake punch like he did on Sakazuki would fucking flatten their heads.


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## Sabco (Oct 29, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> A quake punch like he did on Sakazuki would fucking flatten their heads.



Manga stated that, even if you retreated to the ends of the ocean, there would be no safe place left in the world for you to go when faced with the power of the Gura fruit. Sengoku built a whole fucking siege wall made of a metal stronger than sea stones just to counter this power. Kaido and Big Mom's so called durability get squashed by it.


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## AmitDS (Oct 29, 2019)

Lee-Sensei said:


> 1) Without context, you can’t say that he was equal to Roger. Buggy nearlay killed Luffy. We’re they equals. Obviously, Garp isn’t the same as a Buggy, but the point remains. At his peak, only a Whitebeard was his equal.
> 
> 2) It’s interesting that you mention Garp being at his side against Roger, since a Oda has done this with Garp and a Sengoku far more
> 
> ...




1) Oh please. *So you can say that Akainu is as powerful as Big Mom and Kaido but we can't say that Garp = Roger= WB?* You notice how your bias lets you use mental gymnastics to prove that Akainu = Shanks but at the same time you deny that Garp, Roger and WB were not on the same level because you need more than what the manga already explicitly shows/states?

2) Um Sengoku isn't confirmed Garp leveled yet and Roger and WB are confirmed on the same level. (I personally believe he is on that level but for now we don't have solid proof that he is). But for argument's sake, ok even if Sengoku is Garp leveled what does that have to do with the color trio? We're talking the color trio, greenbull and fujitora.  Lol!

3) Or level could mean on the same level and tier? We saw Big Mom and Kaido clash and Shanks and WB (without his sickness acting up or haki issues), equally further supporting that Garp's statement involved power/strength/skill. The Emperors were stated to be the 4 strongest/most powerful/most formidable pirates on the planet and we've already heard of Big Mom and Kaido skirmishing with one another and with WB over territory. The intent is clear.

4)* That was a weaker version of BB though so idk what that proves. He was Ace leveled with a superior fruit and had just gotten WB's fruit which he hadn't had any mastery of* so you aren't actually proving anything when it comes to an Emperor vs an Admiral. BB only became an emperor during the time skip anyway.

5) Akainu is his fav character. *He said he if he was the protagonist, he is so strong that he'd finish the manga in a year. *Even taking it literally it would mean he'd have push past what Luffy dealt with for the majority of the manga at a faster rate/pace because of his power.  I just proves that he's stronger than Luffy has been thus far. It says nothing about him being comparable to the emperors. And by your own logic that would also mean that Kuzan, Fujitora, Kizaru and Greenbull would do the same and as we said and showed already the emperors are RIGHT NOW stronger than the color trio and those 2 new admirals.

6) There were instances where he couldn't use haki and Marco and Crocodile both pointed out that he was weaker and took hits he should have avoided. His title of the strongest man was gained when he was in his prime and he weakened so even though he was still known as such we saw what prolonged battles did to him. Hence his statement about not being the strongest forever (his loss was proof of that).

7) OOOOO! Let me use your logic for this. If one color trio is affected then they all would be so BOOM!

But yeah he clashed equally with Akainu specifically here.

*Link Removed*

8) No it wasn't. Nothing at that time implies that Shanks commanders are stronger than Marco. Even now it's speculation and Marco was fighting admirals.

I think you mean 9) Funny you bring up future sight when Luffy and Katakuri have it and we know how they measure up to Big Mom. Did you stretch before this reach?


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Oct 29, 2019)

Edward-Teach said:


> Blackbeard's DC shits on Big Mom's and Kaido's durability. he and Whitebeard are the only impressive Yonko when it comes to AP. a casual attack from gura can decimate both.


Bullshit, Kaidou just dropped a nuke in his dragon form (and that's not even awakened zoan or anything) and was super casual.

Big Mom fights independently of her underlings, so while fighting big mom, you also have prometheus and napoleon (and used to be zeus) dropping nukes and sword attacks on you. Big Mom has stamina drain too apparently (she seemed to use it on G4 Luffy to instantly drain him out of it), she has the physical stats to beat a giant legend at age 5, etc etc. 

Overall Kaidou and Big Mom have the strongest base strength and stats of the yonkou, while blackbeard overly relies on devil fruits, and shanks we don't know what his deal is yet.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Oct 29, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> Kaido has a Dragon Mythical Zoan DF. His DF is in the same tier as the Admirals’.
> Who cares about island level DC in a 1v1?
> Best physicals? Lmao.
> 
> Tell me more about how Admirals have better showings when Fuji and Ryo get pushed to mid diff by Sabo and 3 dudes <= Ivankov while Kaido and BM lol diff Luffy and Queen


Actually his devil fruit is stronger than the admirals. The admirals said themselves that mystical zoans are more rare than logia.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Cursemark (Oct 29, 2019)

Edward-Teach said:


> Manga stated that, even if you retreated to the ends of the ocean, there would be no safe place left in the world for you to go when faced with the power of the Gura fruit. Sengoku built a whole fucking siege wall made of a metal stronger than sea stones just to counter this power. Kaido and Big Mom's so called durability get squashed by it.


Oh please. Akainu and blackbeard took direct attacks from the Gura Gura fruit and their durability is nowhere near BM & Kaidou's.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Oct 29, 2019)

Cursemark said:


> Oh please. Akainu and blackbeard took direct attacks from the Gura Gura fruit and their durability is nowhere near BM & Kaidou's.


Like fuck, the gura gura didn't even do all that much more than a pre timeskip luffy punch did to blackbeard. Blackbeard was ace leveled and suffers extra damage due to his fruit.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Edogawa (Oct 30, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> Kaido has a Dragon Mythical Zoan DF. His DF is in the same tier as the Admirals’.
> Who cares about island level DC in a 1v1?
> Best physicals? Lmao.
> 
> Tell me more about how Admirals have better showings when Fuji and Ryo get pushed to mid diff by Sabo and 3 dudes <= Ivankov while Kaido and BM lol diff Luffy and Queen



You lost credibility when you said DC doesn't matter. If destructive capabilities weren't important, Whitebeard would never have been a big deal and his whole hype of being able to destroy world wouldn't be mentioned by Oda. Imagine thinking DC doesn't matter, when it's one of the most important components in matchups.

Admiral DF >>> Kaido's featless DF. An Admiral Logia can devastate islands, cause climate change and have versatile applications. Call me when Kaido does any of that.



Acno said:


> BM and Kaido is a thing,you know that right?



So far nothing shows they can tank 2 bloodlusted quakes from WB. And nothing shows they can stop a quake with 1 foot. And nothing shows they can fight for 10 days nonstop.

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## Shiroryu (Oct 30, 2019)

Imagine thinking that a Mythical Zoan Dragon DF isn’t gonna be OP

Imagine thinking that the Admirals have better physical stats than Kaido and BM

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## Shiroryu (Oct 30, 2019)

Edogawa said:


> You lost credibility when you said DC doesn't matter. If destructive capabilities weren't important, Whitebeard would never have been a big deal and his whole hype of being able to destroy world wouldn't be mentioned by Oda. Imagine thinking DC doesn't matter, when it's one of the most important components in matchups.
> 
> Admiral DF >>> Kaido's featless DF. An Admiral Logia can devastate islands, cause climate change and have versatile applications. Call me when Kaido does any of that.
> 
> ...


How about you learn to read because I clearly said in a 1v1 fight

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Corax (Oct 30, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> How about you learn to read because I clearly said in a 1v1 fight


How in 1 on 1 DC doesn't matter?It is the most important factor. Normal G4 attacks DC weren't sufficient to KO Doflamingo,Luffy had to use city splitter on him. Imaging how pulverized he would be if Luffy used legit mountain or island pulverizer on him instead?Or asteroid explosion (heat+pressure+shockwave)?He would turn into dust if even city splitter was enough to KO him.

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## AmitDS (Oct 30, 2019)

Kaido has a mythical zoan and it's an Eastern Dragon. Kaido is the strongest creature, an emperor and the emperor leading the beast pirates. If I recall correctly, in Eastern mythology the Dragon is the strongest creature and rivaled by the tiger (its enemy) and the phoenix (it's other half/ polar opposite) so it's likely the greatest of the mythical zoan class. I don't think the admirals' logia are confirmed superior outside of Akainu's fruit being said to be amongst the most destructive fruits (which doesn't help in this discussion).

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kylo Ren (Oct 30, 2019)

Edogawa said:


> *So far nothing shows they can tank 2 bloodlusted quakes from WB*. And nothing shows they can stop a quake with 1 foot. And nothing shows they can fight for 10 days nonstop.


the fact that you think that makes your opinion really sucks. 

Akainu and BB survived quake punch whose durability is inferior to those two Yonko. they can tank it way better. 

who is the one who at the age of 5 is already a tank? it's BM, not Akainu

who is the one who cannot be hurt unless she has a tantrum for you to be able to damage her? It's BM, not Akainu 

Who is the one said cannot be killed? blades and others just simply shattered no one can't penetrate his skin. It's Kaido, not Akainu

this two is a freak of nature what is Akainu to that?  I'll give you the offense 

I mean the fact that they stalemate each other is enough to know that it takes more than two quake punch to beat them. Kaido only scar comes from Oden, not from WB.

Reactions: Like 2


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## GreenBull956 (Oct 30, 2019)

Don King said:


> Kaido only scar comes from Oden, not from WB


WB's Quakes doesn't left scars

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kylo Ren (Oct 30, 2019)

GreenBull956 said:


> WB's Quakes doesn't left scars


Still, Kaido and BM > Akainu in durability.


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## Steven (Oct 30, 2019)

This thread


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## Corax (Oct 30, 2019)

Don King said:


> the fact that you think that makes your opinion really sucks.
> 
> Akainu and BB survived quake punch whose durability is inferior to those two Yonko. they can tank it way better.
> 
> ...


Why do you think that BM and Kaido have better durability than Akainu?Nothing indicates that. Yes they tanked basic G4 attacks,but they aren't even remotely strong. It is kinda silly to compare them to WB's bloodlusted quakes. By feats Akainu has better durability,not them. If they take WB's quakes on panel better than him I would agree.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Yuji (Oct 30, 2019)

Edogawa said:


> You lost credibility when you said DC doesn't matter. If destructive capabilities weren't important, Whitebeard would never have been a big deal and his whole hype of being able to destroy world wouldn't be mentioned by Oda. Imagine thinking DC doesn't matter, when it's one of the most important components in matchups.
> 
> Admiral DF >>> Kaido's featless DF. An Admiral Logia can devastate islands, cause climate change and have versatile applications. Call me when Kaido does any of that.
> 
> So far nothing shows they can tank 2 bloodlusted quakes from WB. And nothing shows they can stop a quake with 1 foot. And nothing shows they can fight for 10 days nonstop.



She didn't lose any credibility, *DC doesn't matter in a 1v1 fight*.

Doflamingo can also devastate islands, and yet he still almost died from gamma knife if he was anyone else he would have. Pica can devastate islands, does that make his fruit stronger than Kaidos?

A Yonko does not need to fight for 10 days against an admiral, they'll have them beaten in less than a day. Endurance only matters against people of equal skill

Reactions: Like 1


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## Seraphoenix (Oct 30, 2019)

Vengeance said:


> Fujitora in bandages was a letdown, dude isn't on C3 level unfortunately.


Your mistake is thinking C3 wouldn't also be in bandages after such an encounter.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Kylo Ren (Oct 30, 2019)

Corax said:


> Why do you think that BM and Kaido have better durability than Akainu?Nothing indicates that. Yes they tanked basic G4 attacks,but they aren't even remotely strong. It is kinda silly to compare them to WB's bloodlusted quakes. By feats Akainu has better durability,not them. If they take WB's quakes on panel better than him I would agree.


I just indicate what makes those two special when it comes to tanking and durability feats. Kaido just by the fact that Oda highlighted in his intro that he cannot die, he just executed but still alive. I'm tied to really list it cause I know you know what I'm talking about. Chapter 895 irrc? your only argument is because BM and Kaido didn't tank the
quake punch on panel yet but we had an indication that they fought and the outcome of that is stalemate hence the Yonko system.

do you think they be called Yonko if WB can two-shot BM and Kaido? It's low diff. again Your only argument is Akainu tank it on the panel and those two aren't when we both know they will tank it way better.

and if you still believe Akainu is superior in durability make a poll. I'm tired of my opinion Vs. your Opinion.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Corax (Oct 30, 2019)

Don King said:


> because you're being delusional. I just indicate what makes those two special when it comes to tanking and durability feats. Kaido just by the fact that Oda highlighted in his intro that he cannot die, he just executed but still alive. I'm tied to really list it cause I know you know what I'm talking about. Chapter 895 irrc? your only argument is because BM and Kaido didn't tank the
> quake punch on panel yet but we had an indication that they fought and the outcome of that is stalemate hence the Yonko system.
> 
> do you think they be called Yonko if WB can two-shot BM and Kaido? It's low diff. again Your only argument is Akainu tank it on the panel and those two aren't when we both know they will tank it way better.
> ...


This is battledome and we are using on panel feats here,not some mental gymnastics. Clearly on panel they took far weaker attacks from far weaker opponent. Hypothetical Kaido vs Whitebeard that didn't even happen in manga or wasn't even mentioned has no weight here. And if you want fanfiction you can read Kaido vs WB fan fiction manga in ohara library. Kaido is heavily bleeding, pretty beat up and lost an eye after his fight vs WB.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Kylo Ren (Oct 30, 2019)

Corax said:


> This is battledome and we are using on panel feats here,not some mental gymnasitcs. Clearly on panel they took far weaker attacks from far weaker opponent. Hypothetical Kaido vs Whitebeard that didn't even happen in manga or wasn't even mentioned has no weight here. And if you want fanfiction you can read Kaido vs WB fan fiction manga in ohara library. Kaido is heavily bleeding, pretty beat up and lost an eye after his fight vs WB.


Well, were in General thread Yonko Vs. Admirals where some of the Yonko haven't shown what they fully capable of. so it means we are not just bound by feats, right? Here's a panel where WB and Kaido and BM we're considered on the same level.



and Here Law that they fought that's why the Yonko is rival of each other.



it's on panel. it's not because it's not shown doesn't mean it never happens. are they going to be called rivals if WB can two-shot BM or Kaido?

Akainu isn't considered unkillable or being called Iron balloon.


It does not take a genius to understand that Kaido or BM is superior in durability really. Just chapter 795 where Kaido just did nothing and spear simply break what is Akainu to that? or BM even at age 5 without Haki never receives an injury over a giant who swings his axe to attack her and she blocked it with her arms.

Reactions: Like 2


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## GreenBull956 (Oct 30, 2019)

Don King said:


> do you think they be called Yonko if WB can two-shot BM and Kaido? It's low diff.


Akainu was off guard though when he took the 1st Quake , so i'm pretty sure he could take more than 2 if he was on guard .

Like Magellan , who some people are underrating because he was brought to his knees after being hit by a Jet Pistol
( because Magellan underestimated him ) , after that Magellan took other Luffy's attacks and was fine

I think it's possible he can 2 shot them if he is bloodlusted like he was vs Akainu , since his Quakes bypass Durability , also if they are off guard

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kylo Ren (Oct 30, 2019)

GreenBull956 said:


> Akainu was off guard though when he took the 1st Quake , so i'm pretty sure he could take more than 2 if he was on guard .
> 
> Like Magellan , who some people are underrating because he was brought to his knees after being hit by a Jet Pistol
> ( because Magellan underestimated him ) , after that Magellan took other Luffy's attacks and was fine
> ...


Well, I just commented on this: "So far nothing shows they can tank 2 bloodlusted quakes from WB." He thinks BM and Kaido cannot withstand two quake from WB.

You better read the first post rather than just randomly quote me.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Steven (Oct 30, 2019)

GreenBull956 said:


> Akainu was off guard though when he took the 1st Quake , so i'm pretty sure he could take more than 2 if he was on guard .
> 
> Like Magellan , who some people are underrating because he was brought to his knees after being hit by a Jet Pistol
> ( because Magellan underestimated him ) , after that Magellan took other Luffy's attacks and was fine
> ...


Nice downplay

Reactions: Like 2


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## Flame (Oct 30, 2019)

Will this debate bear any fruit? Will it last forever? Will someone ever admit the other party is right?

*Find out on the next episode of YonkovsAdmirals! *
(which will likely happen minutes right after this post)


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## GreenBull956 (Oct 30, 2019)

Acno said:


> Nice downplay


I just think it's possible . not a downplay

Reactions: Like 1


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## Seraphoenix (Oct 30, 2019)

Edward-Teach said:


> Admirals have trash durability compared to Kaido and Big Mom. but i fucking dislike how some take this to de-hype Gura's power.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Teach with the all powerful Gura is still a Yonkou currently. If he could 2 shot Yonkou like the gura did with Akainu then he would have taken over already but he hasn't. The Gura is frightening if you are a mere Admiral.

Reactions: Like 7


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## Corax (Oct 30, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> Teach with the all powerful Gura is still a Yonkou currently. If he could 2 shot Yonkou like the gura did with Akainu then he would have taken over already but he hasn't. The Gura is frightening if you are a mere Admiral.


Not a good point. Gura+Yami Teach will surpass all yonko and rival PK Luffy at some point. Obviously Gura is saved for the best parts of EOS,not for some mid/low tier Wano scuffle.


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## MrPopo (Oct 30, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> Teach with the all powerful Gura is still a Yonkou currently. If he could 2 shot Yonkou like the gura did with Akainu then he would have taken over already but he hasn't. The Gura is frightening if you are a mere Admiral.


For a vice adimral its not


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## Sabco (Oct 30, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> Teach with the all powerful Gura is still a Yonkou currently. If he could 2 shot Yonkou like the gura did with Akainu then he would have taken over already but he hasn't. The Gura is frightening if you are a mere Admiral.



He could easily harm Kaido and Big Mom but not two shot them. point is his attack power is the best so far.


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## Seraphoenix (Oct 30, 2019)

Corax said:


> Not a good point. Gura+Yami Teach will surpass all yonko and rival PK Luffy at some point. Obviously Gura is saved for the best parts of EOS,not for some mid/low tier Wano scuffle.


Not a good rebuttal. He has had both for two years and still hasn't challenged them. His goal is to be PK and he is doing his best to gather more devil fruits instead of going head to head with the other Yonkou atm. This means he can't beat them currently despite having the Gura and Yami. 



Edward-Teach said:


> He could easily harm Kaido and Big Mom but not two shot them. point is his attack power is the best so far.


No he couldn't easily harm them. You can't use Akainu getting two shot as if Kaido and BM have the same durability, especially when it's shown that their durability is on a totally different level from any character we've seen so far.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Steven (Oct 30, 2019)

The Gura dont ignores Dura...what are you talking?

Reactions: Like 1


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## trance (Oct 30, 2019)

Professional butt wiper said:


> For a vice adimral its not



if by vice admiral you mean garp then youd be correct

yonko, admiral, secret immortal ruler of the world government...all of them mean nothing to THE FIST

Reactions: Like 2


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## Sabco (Oct 30, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> No he couldn't easily harm them. You can't use Akainu getting two shot as if Kaido and BM have the same durability, especially when it's shown that their durability is on a totally different level from any character we've seen so far.



Yes he can. he doesn't only possess nullification hax but also has the best on panel AP thus far. they can't just stand there and shrug off a Gura attack with their durability when Oden who's a crew mate under Whitebeard could deal significant damage to Kaido with a second grade blade. to what extent their durability could last is up to speculations, but until's confirmed Gura is cracking them up, it's potent enough to require >seastone wall to stop.. though all of them share Yonko status, Blackbeard has abilities that counter any devil fruit user in the series, and he even showed signs of awakening at Beehive island. so him being slightly stronger than both meme and Kaido does actually have basis. Prime Garp, Shanks and Mihawk will prove more of a challenge to him than the other Yonko since the Yami would be nearly useless. Also bounty wise the bounties are inconsistent. as Dragon's right hand man have a bounty lower than Perospero. hence BB's bounty being lower than Kaido and Big Mom doesn't affect his portrayal that much.


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## Seraphoenix (Oct 30, 2019)

Edward-Teach said:


> Yes he can. he doesn't only possess nullification hax but also has the best on panel AP thus far. they can't just stand there and shrug off a Gura attack with their durability when Oden who's a crew mate under Whitebeard could deal significant damage to Kaido with a second grade blade. to what extent their durability could last is up to speculations, but until's confirmed Gura is cracking them up, it's potent enough to require >seastone wall to stop.. though all of them share Yonko status, Blackbeard has abilities that counter any devil fruit user in the series, and he even showed signs of awakening at Beehive island. so him being slightly stronger than both meme and Kaido does actually have basis. Prime Garp, Shanks and Mihawk will prove more of a challenge to him than the other Yonko since the Yami would be nearly useless. Also bounty wise the bounties are inconsistent. as Dragon's right hand man have a bounty lower than Perospero. hence BB's bounty being lower than Kaido and Big Mom doesn't affect his portrayal that much.


-He hasn't been shown on panel combining the fruits in one attack
-It isn't that impressive. The destruction is comparable to KKG
-Oden using a magical sword is his feat alone. Kaidou has fought and been captured by both Yonkou and Marines and that's the only scar he has taken. You can't make up anyone stronger than Oden injuring him if no one has despite numerous opportunities.
-If he was stronger and already at EoS level why is he not PK yet?why hasn't he beaten the other Yonkou?
-Why are we talking about bounties? They are not an absolute strength measure.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ren. (Oct 30, 2019)

Edogawa said:


> best physicals.






Edogawa said:


> most overpowered Devil Fruits






Edogawa said:


> immense Haki mastery


For the moment Luffy has a more advance COA and COO than Admirals

Reactions: Like 5


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## Steven (Oct 30, 2019)

An Admiral never defeated a FM with 1 hit

A Yonkou did it

Reactions: Like 3


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## Sherlōck (Oct 30, 2019)

Wano Luffy is going to bash Kaido's face this arc and BB doesn’t have DC to significantly injure him.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Edogawa (Oct 30, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> How about you learn to read because I clearly said in a 1v1 fight



And you lost credibility. If you ever had any.


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## Edogawa (Oct 30, 2019)

Don King said:


> the fact that you think that makes your opinion really sucks.



I have too much a life to give a darn about what others on a battle forum think about my opinion.



Don King said:


> Akainu and BB survived quake punch whose durability is inferior to those two Yonko. they can tank it way better.



The foundation of your argument is built upon speculation. Mine is built upon feats. 

Didn't Kaido get knocked out of his Zoan form by G3 Luffy? While both Vista and Marc combined efforts couldn't even dent an injured Akainu? Vista being the guy who stalemated Mihawk, who is a rival to Shanks who stopped Kaido? Yeah, thought so.



Don King said:


> I mean the fact that they stalemate each other is enough to know that it takes more than two quake punch to beat them. Kaido only scar comes from Oden, not from WB.



So Kaido got a scar from a man who worked for WB


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## Kroczilla (Oct 30, 2019)

Corax said:


> Not a good point. Gura+Yami Teach will surpass all yonko and rival PK Luffy at some point. Obviously Gura is saved for the best parts of EOS,not for some mid/low tier Wano scuffle.


BB has spent the better part of two years gathering DFs, so obviously even he doesn't think the Gura + Yami DF will be enough.
Not to mention if you think about it, his Yami DF wouldn't really factor against the other younko as they are all monsters even without DFs.


Edogawa said:


> Didn't Kaido get knocked out of his Zoan form by G3 Luffy?


Nope. Kaido reverted back to human form, proceeded to tank a barrage of far more powerful attacks from G4 luffy and then one shot him.
This is unlike a certain Admiral who got put on life support by Sabo.



Edogawa said:


> While both Vista and Marc combined efforts couldn't even dent an injured Akainu?


Yet Diamond jozu alone made aoikiji bleed.




Edogawa said:


> Vista being the guy who stalemated Mihawk, who is a rival to Shanks who stopped Kaido? Yeah, thought so.


Are we talking of the same Shanks who had Akainu shitting himself?
The same Shanks whose subodinate told kizaru to reach for the skies?
That shanks?



Edogawa said:


> So Kaido got a scar from a man who worked for WB  l treated as an equal by the pirate king




There, fixed that for you.

Also,
Kaido went into wano and straight up subjugated its samurai to the point where just hearing his name gives them panick attacks.
Akainu on the other hand is too much of a bitch to even go there despite literally having a man on the inside.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Steven (Oct 30, 2019)

As if the Yami Yami would be a game changer against Kaido or BM

This 2 are monsters even without a DF

Reactions: Like 2


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## Gianfi (Oct 30, 2019)

Flame said:


> Will this debate bear any fruit? Will it last forever? Will someone ever admit the other party is right?
> 
> *Find out on the next episode of YonkovsAdmirals! *
> (which will likely happen minutes right after this post)


It will last even after OP ends in 2050


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## Dellinger (Oct 30, 2019)

69 vs 23


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## trance (Oct 30, 2019)

Gianfi said:


> It will last even after OP ends in 2050



bold of you to assume op will end that early


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## trance (Oct 30, 2019)

22nd century OP or bust goda


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## Quipchaque (Oct 30, 2019)

Edogawa said:


> Oda portrays them on the same level, but by showings the Admirals are clearly shown to be stronger so far. From having the most overpowered Devil Fruits, island-level DC, immense Haki mastery and best physicals. Yonkos are pretty underwhelming as far as showings. This may change later on.



By showings they are equal to Marco, Beckman, old Rayleigh, Katakuri and Sabo. Dunno how they could be stronger when most of their feats are only about destroying rubble, lifting rubble and destroying trees. An admiral on Kaido's level would one-shot these guys. So I'm afraid you are wrong.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Sabco (Oct 30, 2019)

Acno said:


> As if the Yami Yami would be a game changer against Kaido or BM
> 
> This 2 are monsters even without a DF



The game change would be his mastered quake devil fruit that would shit on both of them DFless or not but the darkness devil fruit is definitely very useful.It quelled elemental attacks, Entei which nearly covered an island and suppressed quakes. meme's Prometheus and Zeus gets sucked in the vortex the moment the fight begins.


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## Steven (Oct 30, 2019)

Edward-Teach said:


> The game change would be his mastered quake devil fruit that would shit on both of them DFless or not but the darkness devil fruit is definitely very useful.It quelled elemental attacks, Entei which nearly covered an island and suppressed quakes. meme's Prometheus and Zeus gets sucked in the vortex the moment the fight begins.


Useless against Kaido´s club or Napoleon...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Old Man Van (Oct 30, 2019)

-WB got outmatched by every admiral he faced 
-WB lost half his face sneak attacking Akainu
-Marco blocked Akainu
-Shanks blocked Akainu
-BB ran away from Shanks
-BB ran away from Akainu
-BM two shotted Queen who underestimated her
-Jozu makes Aokini's lip bleed
-Aokiji one shots Jozu with a sneak attack 
-Luffy without FS easily dodges Borobreath
-Kaido one shots Luffy without FS and haki protection 
-BM doesnt one shot Brooke
-BM couldnt hit Base Luffy before FS
-Hyou could still run after getting hit by BM
-Buggy dodges Akainu's magma punch
-Marco blocks Kizaru
-BM blocks G4
-Fuji gets sent flying by G3
-Fuji gets bandages fighting Revos with Green Bull helping him 
-Akainu doesnt get a scratch after a sneak attack from Marco and Visa
-Akainu doesn't get a scratch fighting Marco, Vista, Croc and 11 other commanders at the same time.
-Akainu and Aokiji fight for 10 days
-BM and Kaido stalemate for a few days
-No one has yet to go all out

People are just exaggerating along with picking n' choosing which scenes matter of the sake of their argument.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Sabco (Oct 30, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> -He hasn't been shown on panel combining the fruits in one attack



He can use both on the same time. he was literally using Black Hole a second before attacking with his left arm :





It only takes simple hand gestures with his right arm to pull in Homies with Black Vortex.



Seraphoenix said:


> -It isn't that impressive. The destruction is comparable to KKG



KKG's best feat AP wise is one shotting a nerfed Doflamingo after two rounds of pummeling him around with decimating attacks. Gura shat on a fresh admiral casually. that's heaven and earth difference. and please just look at the destruction KKG caused, it doesn't even come close to a quarter of Dressros'a size at all. Gura is wide enough to threat multiple islands at once. if it weren't for Ace being on the platform, sick Whitebeard could have blinked the island out of existence.



Seraphoenix said:


> Oden using a magical sword is his feat alone.



A magical blade is something that uses extraordinary source of power to attack. Enma uses a common thing, the wielder's own CoA. it's a second grade blade that excessively draws out its wielder's CoA of its own accord. though Zoro and Oden managed to eventually tame it. it can force far stronger strikes than intended as long as the user is powerful enough to control it from not draining him out of his CoA.

So basically, Enma relays on the strength of its user mostly, if his CoA control is trash it won't be useful. no magical things apply here.



Seraphoenix said:


> If he was stronger and already at EoS level why is he not PK yet?



Because Blackbeard's potential is far beyond that. Oda said he originally intended for BB to solo all the admirals with only one fruit. so at EoS with the strongest three devil fruits in his possession he will be much stronger than a mere Yonko. he has the potential to surpass Xebec and be the second biggest threat next to Imu. that dwarfs what Kaido and Big Mom's roles are in the story by a wide margin.



Acno said:


> Useless against Kaido´s club or Napoleon...



Napoleon is a part of Big Mom's main soul that creates Homies. he could very well be affected by Yami and absorbed since he's also a part of a devil fruit power. nevertheless, neither of their weapons have feats to suggest they could block Gura's power yet, even if Kaido's club was made of pure sea stone it won't be enough as Sengoku used a metal far stronger to protect Marineford.


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## Old Man Van (Oct 30, 2019)

Edward-Teach said:


> He can use both on the same time. he was literally using Black Hole a second before attacking with his left arm :
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That was something I forgot about....Oda said that endgame BB was originally going to be SO POWERFUL, that he can take on 3 admirals at once but scrapped it as he viewed that kind of power as too much. So someone more powerful than Primebeard or Roger taking on 3 admirals is too much, yet some people think a current emperor requires 3 admirals to lose......

Reactions: Like 2


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Oct 30, 2019)

Edward-Teach said:


> Admirals have trash durability compared to Kaido and Big Mom. but i fucking dislike how some take this to de-hype Gura's power.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Honestly don't want to debate a lot of that cuz it's kind of boring but:

1) Blackbeard didn't defeat Ace easily, nor his entei, it was an equal dbz style clash that blackbeard happened to win and thus won the fight.

2) Zeus and Prometheus will be nuking him from a distance while Napoleon does large scale top end cutting feats, when blackbeard tries to suck them up, big mom will just drop a fist down on blackbeard's nose.

3) Yes it will defend them from his attack power, just like how it defended them against whitebeard's attack power. Blackbeard grabs onto kaidou, cancels his devil fruit, then kaidou headbutts blackbeard who starts crying about how strong kaidou is.
Blackbeard is the weakest yonkou currently, he'll get stronger, but that's just how things are currently.

4) Kaidou without buso and his devil fruit one hit g4 luffy, who is on admiral level, so there you go. Blackbeard was Ace leveled and he felt more damage than others and he still didn't just die from the hit. 

5) Character statements aren't really all that relevant tbh, it's just build up hype. Kaidou wouldn't have to outrun it anyway, he'll just break blackbeard's neck.

6) No one in one piece is world busting leveled, that was just a statement.


Kaidou and Mom would eat it, then throw an attack right back.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Blacku (Oct 30, 2019)

Gianfi said:


> It will last even after OP ends in 2050



Lmao you yonko fans have 3-5 year top before your wank dies out

Reactions: Like 2


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## Steven (Oct 30, 2019)

Black Otaku said:


> Lmao you yonko fans have 3-5 year top before your wank dies out


What wank?

Yonkous has better feats


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Oct 30, 2019)

Edogawa said:


> You lost credibility when you said DC doesn't matter. If destructive capabilities weren't important, Whitebeard would never have been a big deal and his whole hype of being able to destroy world wouldn't be mentioned by Oda. Imagine thinking DC doesn't matter, when it's one of the most important components in matchups.
> 
> Admiral DF >>> Kaido's featless DF. An Admiral Logia can devastate islands, cause climate change and have versatile applications. Call me when Kaido does any of that.
> 
> ...


Mystical zoans are objectively listed as more rare and thus implied better than logia. 

Stop shitposting if you want to keep that Ranpo username.


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## Dellinger (Oct 30, 2019)

Acno said:


> What wank?
> 
> Yonkous has better feats


Don’t mind that doofus, he’s just a scrub from the dragon ball section

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Blacku (Oct 30, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> Don’t mind that doofus, he’s just a scrub from the dragon ball section

Reactions: Like 1


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Oct 30, 2019)

Black Otaku said:


> Lmao you yonko fans have 3-5 year top before your wank dies out


Around as long as you'll be waiting to see Vegeta again.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Shiroryu (Oct 30, 2019)

Black Otaku said:


> Lmao you yonko fans have 3-5 year top before your wank dies out


And you Admiral fans have 5-10 year top before Sanji solos an Admiral

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Oct 31, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> And you Admiral fans have 5-10 year top before Sanji solos an Admiral


The series isn't 10 years longer, give it 4 years.


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## Quipchaque (Oct 31, 2019)

Black Otaku said:


> Lmao you yonko fans have 3-5 year top before your wank dies out



The yonko fight over the "world's strongest" titles yet it is wank to believe they are stronger than people who exchange blows evenly with commanders. Suuuure.


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## Sabco (Oct 31, 2019)

damn i can't join either Yonko or Admirals side here. i should leave this thread with my BB wank.


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## GreenBull956 (Oct 31, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> And you Admiral fans have 5-10 year top before Sanji solos an Admiral


If anyone were to fight Kizaru from Strawhats it's Zoro

Ryokugyu could have the same nature as Fujitora ; he actually harbor ill feelings towards the World Government and wanted to change it from inside , so if he really harbored it then it's possible he won't fight the Strawhats just like Fujitora won't


DiscoZoro20 said:


> The yonko fight over the "world's strongest" titles yet it is wank to believe they are stronger than people who exchange blows evenly with commanders. Suuuure.


You're still stuck on Marineford ?

Reactions: Like 1


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## AmitDS (Oct 31, 2019)

On a side note. I never got this notion that Greenbull and Fujitora are below the color trio as 'weaker admirals'. I say this because it was stated that they were not members of the navy and were recruited for the admiral position during the timeskip due to being monsters. This would actually debunk the only plausible reason to believe, right now, that they are weaker than the color trio i.e. that they were lower ranked/weaker marine soldiers pre time skip. This would more likely be the case with Gion and Tokikake rather than Greenbull and Fujitora. 

They were admiral leveled before joining the marines and before the time skip so wouldn't this more likely point to Greenbull and Fujitora being on the same level as the color trio, 2 years ago and even now?

Also on another side note I feel some of you rely on feats too much since obviously many stronger characters have not shown even a fraction of their power yet so using feats and ignoring hype is actually counterproductive and would not align with the manga now and in the future _and_ with what Oda thinks.

Eg) People thinking Big Mom and Kaido cannot replicate some feats of the admirals/WB's commanders from 2 years ago even though they especially have physical boosts or people thinking Smoothie is weak despite being a YC commander along with Katakuri and Cracker just because Oda hasn't shown her fighting yet; Garp not being PK leveled because him being stated to have fought Roger many times "isn't proof that these were 1 vs 1 fights."

 Lol this is shonen for kids ages 8+, you really think your contrived, criteria and over analyzing makes more sense than oh idk, emperors being able to do what commanders, admirals and Shanks, another emperor, did; Smoothie being comparable to other commanders and Garp being the PK's rival and on his level since they are portrayed as such and "we nearly killed each other many times" ; "he cornered Roger many times" not leaving any room for speculation for a child or a teen (if Garp had help it would have been stated & he wouldn't be hyped).


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## Quipchaque (Oct 31, 2019)

GreenBull956 said:


> If anyone were to fight Kizaru from Strawhats it's Zoro
> 
> Ryokugyu could have the same nature as Fujitora ; he actually harbor ill feelings towards the World Government and wanted to change it from inside , so if he really harbored it then it's possible he won't fight the Strawhats just like Fujitora won't
> 
> You're still stuck on Marineford ?



Nope and if you read my post again you will realize that too.


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## Sherlōck (Oct 31, 2019)

GreenBull956 said:


> If anyone were to fight Kizaru from Strawhats it's Zoro
> 
> Ryokugyu could have the same nature as Fujitora ; he actually harbor ill feelings towards the World Government and wanted to change it from inside , so if he really harbored it then it's possible he won't fight the Strawhats just like Fujitora won't



If GreenBull takes out Mihawk like I predicted then Zoro will fight Bull on the final war. 

Otherwise it's Kizaru.


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## GreenBull956 (Oct 31, 2019)

Sherlōck said:


> If GreenBull takes out Mihawk like I predicted then Zoro will fight Bull on the final war.
> 
> Otherwise it's Kizaru.


I think if anyone in this Manga were to take out Mihawk then it's Kizaru , if not Kizaru then Ryokugyu but Kizaru has more chance than him , Shiryuu just will never be strong enough 

I'm currently thinking Oda kept dragging Ryokugyu's intro because Oda wanted him to meet Strawhat(s) in his intro like Aokiji and Fujitora ; or meet Strawhat(s) shortly after his intro like Akainu and Kizaru , so i think Ryokugyu and Fujitora will go to Wano in a Great Cleansing Fleet ( GCF ) and Oda will make Ryokugyu meeting Strawhat(s) in his intro , while Kizaru took out Mihawk before Ryokugyu and Fujitora even go to Wano

Also Kizaru always got matched up with YC1/First Mates ( the first Strawhat he hit was Zoro , then he clashed with Rayleigh , then he took on Marco while Akainu took on Whitebeard and Aokiji took on Jozu , then he got Beckmann tried to stop him while Shanks stopped Akainu )


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## Corax (Oct 31, 2019)

It is irrelevant who will fight who. EOS Zoro will be WSS with black Enma,black Wado and possibly some pre Void hax tech Raftel cursed sword. So by default crazy OP. Sanji in his nanotech hax self regenerating RS+plasma Diablo jamble Raftel tech upgrage+several arc base stats upgrades.Will they fight Kizaru/Green Bull/Gorosei is pretty much irrelevant as anyone who will fight them by defaut will be leagues ahead of current power scaling. Though it is kinda pointless to talk about events that will happen in 2050 .


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## Quipchaque (Oct 31, 2019)

Sherlōck said:


> If GreenBull takes out Mihawk like I predicted then Zoro will fight Bull on the final war.
> 
> Otherwise it's Kizaru.



Lol at Greenbull taking out Mihawk. Dude is as strong as Shanks whose subordinate already puts admirals in check while he himself trolls Akainu (someone far superior to Greenbull.)


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## Quipchaque (Oct 31, 2019)

Corax said:


> It is irrelevant who will fight who. EOS Zoro will be WSS with black Enma,black Wado and possibly some pre Void hax tech Raftel cursed sword. So by default crazy OP. Sanji in his nanotech hax self regenerating RS+plasma Diablo jamble Raftel tech upgrage+several arc base stats upgrades.Will they fight Kizaru/Green Bull/Gorosei is pretty much irrelevant as anyone who will fight them by defaut will be leagues ahead of current power scaling. Though it is kinda pointless to talk about events that will happen in 2050 .



Not necessarily because the power jumps are speculation and because you have to keep in mind that the battles before your predicted increases are team battles so the scaling doesn't have to go up but the difficulty can still increase by making the latter battles 1on1.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Oct 31, 2019)

AmitDS said:


> On a side note. I never got this notion that Greenbull and Fujitora are below the color trio as 'weaker admirals'. I say this because it was stated that they were not members of the navy and were recruited for the admiral position during the timeskip due to being monsters. This would actually debunk the only plausible reason to believe, right now, that they are weaker than the color trio i.e. that they were lower ranked/weaker marine soldiers pre time skip. This would more likely be the case with Gion and Tokikake rather than Greenbull and Fujitora.
> 
> They were admiral leveled before joining the marines and before the time skip so wouldn't this more likely point to Greenbull and Fujitora being on the same level as the color trio, 2 years ago and even now?
> 
> ...


Smoothie is strong, she'd shit on Someone like Doflamingo, who'd shit on Zoro, but she's weaker than Katakuri and Cracker. Cracker's bounty is lower because the world government doesn't know much about him. Also I'd say Perospero and maybe Compote are stronger than Smoothie, and probably Streusen too, she's absolutely powerful, better than people give her credit for, but she's only really stronger than snack, daifuku, and oven.

Garp is honestly the strongest character bar imu, maybe zunisha, maybe the gorousei, and maybe kong.

Shounen is for 12+, and often times you can do stuff like analysis, sadly people don't have reading comprehension in the one piece community so they view stuff as stupidly as possible, but still. Oda clearly leaves stuff in on purpose, you can power scale based on this stuff and gauge effort and stuff against others, but you can't just go "that has more aoe so bam"


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Oct 31, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


>


Cracker statement = intricate design equals power
Perospero = makes Cracker's design look amateur, has the largest scale aoe of anyone but big mom in the crew, has such a high bounty despite not being a current member of big mom's crew, strong physicals, etc.
Streusen = Top end swordsman slash + large scale devil fruit scale
Compote = Kind of just based on the hype of Perospero and Streusen

Those 3 aren't members of the crew, it's possible daifuku and oven aren't either (albeit they are weaker than snack still)

Perospero, Streusen, and Compote were clearly ex top commanders, Streusen was probably Big Mom's first mate and maybe Perosopero at some point too. 

Overall big mom's top commander leveled people are weaker than other crews, but there are more people on that high end level. Like katakuri gets trashed by even someone like jozu or queen, but he has more backup in the form of strong asf people.


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## Corax (Oct 31, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Not necessarily because the power jumps are speculation and because you have to keep in mind that the battles before your predicted increases are team battles so the scaling doesn't have to go up but the difficulty can still increase by making the latter battles 1on1.


This is irrelevat. Team battles or not SH get stronger each arc. TB was a team effort (SH vs Moriah),but without any questions TB SH are stronger than EL SH and far stronger than W7 SH.


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## Quipchaque (Oct 31, 2019)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Cracker statement = intricate design equals power
> Perospero = makes Cracker's design look amateur, has the largest scale aoe of anyone but big mom in the crew, has such a high bounty despite not being a current member of big mom's crew, strong physicals, etc.
> Streusen = Top end swordsman slash + large scale devil fruit scale
> Compote = Kind of just based on the hype of Perospero and Streusen
> ...


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## Tenma (Oct 31, 2019)

Cracker made fully battle-functional automatons that could pass off as flesh-and-blood giants.

Perospero made an escalator

I feel like I'm missing something here.


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## Edogawa (Oct 31, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> By showings they are equal to Marco, Beckman, old Rayleigh, Katakuri and Sabo. Dunno how they could be stronger when most of their feats are only about destroying rubble, lifting rubble and destroying trees. An admiral on Kaido's level would one-shot these guys. So I'm afraid you are wrong.




By showings Kaido's best feat is destroying a castle, while Admirals destroyed an island. Oh, and a Yonko commander from WB permanently wounded Kaido, while an injured Akainu stomped 13 WB commanders.

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## Steven (Oct 31, 2019)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Like katakuri gets trashed by even someone like jozu or queen, but he has more backup in the form of strong asf people.


For real now?

Kata is hardcounter against 1 dimensional fighters like Jozu and Queen is weaker in every aspect.

Kata can just speedblitz both


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## Edogawa (Oct 31, 2019)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Mystical zoans are objectively listed as more rare and thus implied better than logia.
> 
> Stop shitposting if you want to keep that Ranpo username.



Rarity implies mythical Zoans are less common than Logia. It doesn't imply they're better than Logia. 

A DF at the hands of an Admiral did this:



Or this:



How does a dragon transformation compare to that ? Destroying a castle? 

On top of the fact the DF of the Admirals far outstrips Mythical Zoan in destructive capabilities and potency, that includes Kaido's DF, they have a lot more versatile applications.

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## Corax (Oct 31, 2019)

Zoans are the worst fruits by far. Even Kaido had to revert his full zoan because he was hammered by Luffy into the ground and couldn't even hit him by breath. Paradoxically he did far better in his human form. The only good zoan so far is Phoenix.

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## Old Man Van (Oct 31, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> By showings they are equal to Marco, Beckman, old Rayleigh, Katakuri and Sabo. Dunno how they could be stronger when most of their feats are only about destroying rubble, lifting rubble and destroying trees. An admiral on Kaido's level would one-shot these guys. So I'm afraid you are wrong.



Fujitora was beating an Sabo without going all out....a commander has never showed island level feats.....Jack fought more days than Kaido and BM......Marco couldnt damage Akainu with help.....

This is one of those situations where its appropriate to tell you "reread the manga."

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## Steven (Oct 31, 2019)

Old Man Van said:


> Fujitora was beating an Sabo without going all out


Yeah,nice assumption...

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## Yuji (Oct 31, 2019)

Old Man Van said:


> Fujitora was beating an Sabo without going all out....a commander has never showed island level feats.....Jack fought more days than Kaido and BM......Marco couldnt damage Akainu with help....



Sabo was not going all out either, he wasn't even using haki to attack Fujitora, he didn't use a single named attack whereas Fuji did. He took on Fujitora + his entire entourage including a vice admiral and ended up with minor scrapes. He put in more effort to defeating Burgess.

Akainu was incapable of damaging Marco even with half the marine force backing him up.

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## Old Man Van (Oct 31, 2019)

Acno said:


> Yeah,nice assumption...



Sabo himself was wondering why Fujitora was pulling his punches while he was covered in brusies and breathing heavily. What I said is a fact. 



Yuji said:


> Sabo was not going all out either, he wasn't even using haki to attack Fujitora, he didn't use a single named attack whereas Fuji did. He took on Fujitora + his entire entourage including a vice admiral and ended up with minor scrapes. He put in more effort to defeating Burgess.
> 
> Akainu was incapable of damaging Marco even with half the marine force backing him up.



The first part is just blatant lies contradicted by the manga. 

Akainu fought all the commanders alone and they couldn't do a thing. Akainu didnt fight Marco whent he Mariens showed up.

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## Yuji (Oct 31, 2019)

Old Man Van said:


> The first part is just blatant lies contradicted by the manga.



In that case find me some panels where Sabo uses a named attack or haki against Fujitora? I'll wait. 

As I say he put more effort into defeating Burgess.



Old Man Van said:


> Akainu fought all the commanders alone and they couldn't do a thing.



Alone *=/= *clashing with them for a few moments until he was backed up by half the marine force. 

Being intentionally dishonest does nothing to convince people.


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## Sherlōck (Oct 31, 2019)

Yuji said:


> Being intentionally dishonest does nothing to convince people.



Seriously?


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## Old Man Van (Oct 31, 2019)

Yuji said:


> In that case find me some panels where Sabo uses a named attack or haki against Fujitora? I'll wait.
> 
> As I say he put more effort into defeating Burgess.



Show me a panel where its implied Sabo didnt use anything since we can see things off panel apparantly. 

By your logic, Kaido went all out against Luffy since he used a named attack and haki on panel. 

And good to know Burgess>Fujitora.



> Alone *=/= *clashing with them for a few moments until he was backed up by half the marine force.
> 
> Being intentionally dishonest does nothing to convince people.



So you can declare what happened off panel but frown upon others doing it according to you? That's some hypocrisy. Dont want to hear YOU of all people saying stuff like that. And it wasnt for a few moments.

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## Steven (Oct 31, 2019)

Old Man Van said:


> Sabo himself was wondering why Fujitora was pulling his punches while he was covered in brusies and breathing heavily. What I said is a fact.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Remember how hurt he was after the fight against Sabo and Co?Even with the help of Greenbull

No,Akainu stood in the front of all commanders.They was no clash between them


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## GreenBull956 (Oct 31, 2019)

Corax said:


> Zoans are the worst fruits by far. Even Kaido had to revert his full zoan because he was hammered by Luffy into the ground and couldn't even hit him by breath. Paradoxically he did far better in his human form. The only good zoan so far is Phoenix.


I think his Hybrid will be a monster

Still think Admirals' DFs are better though


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## Yuji (Oct 31, 2019)

Old Man Van said:


> Show me a panel where its implied Sabo didnt use anything since we can see things off panel apparantly.



So what you're asking me to do is to disprove something you haven't proven???





Old Man Van said:


> By your logic, Kaido went all out against Luffy since he used a named attack and haki on panel.



I don't recall saying anyone went all out, can you find me a quote where I said that?

Or are you going to ask me to find a quote where I didn't say it now?


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## Gianfi (Oct 31, 2019)

Black Otaku said:


> Lmao you yonko fans have 3-5 year top before your wank dies out


71 vs 23. In five years it'll be 93 vs 1 for the yonko, and you'll be one of proudest yonko fans, neg me all you want, you can't change the manga with negs (I left 1 vote for the admirals, because you know, if there are flat-eartheners in 2019, I guess someone will still have admirals>=yonko in 2024)

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## GreenBull956 (Oct 31, 2019)

Acno said:


> No,Akainu stood in the front of all commanders.They was no clash between them


He did , there was a frame at the bottom showing that , on a certain page later someone stated Akainu clashed with Commanders as well


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## Corax (Oct 31, 2019)

GreenBull956 said:


> I think his Hybrid will be a monster
> 
> Still think Admirals' DFs are better though


As for now his DF is unimpressive. Awakening/Hybrid is his trump card so of course it should be strong. But just his normal dragon zoan has castle DC and can't even hit G3 Luffy.


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## GreenBull956 (Oct 31, 2019)

Corax said:


> As for now his DF is unimpressive. Awakening/Hybrid is his trump card so of course it should be strong. But just his normal dragon zoan has castle DC and can't even hit G3 Luffy.


Well i found his Base more impressive than Dragon , also it's too big of a target for top tier Swordsmen 

I think Zoan's Awakening is always there , so when he used that Dragon form , he was already Awakened

We weren't told that ID Beasts are Awakened until they recovered and Crocodile explained that they were Awakened


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## Old Man Van (Oct 31, 2019)

Acno said:


> Remember how hurt he was after the fight against Sabo and Co?Even with the help of Greenbull
> 
> No,Akainu stood in the front of all commanders.They was no clash between them



How hurt he was? You mean how Garp had a bandage when the only damage we saw him take was a punch from preskip Luffy?

A restricted BM was being blocked, hit clean and knocked around by Jinbe, Brooke, Chopper and Nami...coincidentally a 4 man team.

A restricted Fujitora fought Sabo, Karasu, Morley and Linbergh. A much stronger team and they counter Fujitora(Sabo can fly through gravity and Morley can make the ground soft preventing anyone from getting flattened). Green Bull was there but he is also restricted. The yonko alone should've been enough evidence that being stronger doesnt make you invincible.

As for Akainu, we literally saw Marco throw the first strike with in panel confirmation that Akainu was fighting them....



Yuji said:


> So what you're asking me to do is to disprove something you haven't proven???
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The fact you said that proves you dont have a grasp on the current debate. Lemme help you...

You said Sabo didnt go all out cause he didnt use named attacks and haki on panel and used more effort against Burgess for the opposite reason...Kaido used both against Luffy but nothing against BM on panel aka, Kaido needed more effort against Luffy than BM....

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## GreenBull956 (Oct 31, 2019)

Yuji said:


> Akainu was incapable of damaging Marco even with half the marine force backing him up.


Marco also had backing , but from other Commanders , Crocodile , fodders unlike Akainu who only had backing from fodders from what is visible

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## Old Man Van (Oct 31, 2019)

GreenBull956 said:


> Marco also had backing , but from other Commanders , Crocodile , fodders unlike Akainu who only had backing from fodders from what is visible



I dont get how so many people use this as if it makes Akainu look bad....

They all stood face to face in chapter 578 with Marco striking first(he didnt have brusies). Akainu responds with a magma punch and there is an explosion. The next page is fodder literally saying that Akainu and the commanders were fighting. Chapter 579 is when the order was given to assist Akainu and Marco had bruises in that panel.

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## GreenBull956 (Oct 31, 2019)

Old Man Van said:


> I dont get how so many people use this as if it makes Akainu look bad....
> 
> They all stood face to face in chapter 578 with Marco striking first(he didnt have brusies). Akainu responds with a magma punch and there is an explosion. The next page is fodder literally saying that Akainu and the commanders were fighting. Chapter 579 is when the order was given to assist Akainu and Marco had bruises in that panel.


From what i saw , most people said that Akainu didn't clash with them alone , so maybe most people didn't pay attention to the explosion at the bottom frame

On top of this maybe they didn't pay attention to someone saying "Akainu and the Commanders!" on a certain page later as well

On top of these two , maybe they didn't pay attention to order from Sengoku only being given on chapter 579 page 3 as well

On top of all of this maybe some of them ignored Akainu was injured as well after 2  bloodlusted Whitebeard Quakes

Maybe i could give a pass if they only skimmed those chapters , or read them only once , but if they read it a few times and still didn't realize the first 3 things then that's just bad imo

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## Old Man Van (Oct 31, 2019)

GreenBull956 said:


> From what i saw , most people said that Akainu didn't clash with them alone , so maybe most people didn't pay attention to the explosion at the bottom frame
> 
> On top of this maybe they didn't pay attention to someone saying "Akainu and the Commanders!" on a certain page later as well
> 
> ...



I believe it's just dishonesty. They can notice some obsecure details about the yonko when necessary but can never remember anything about the admirals no matter blatant it is. They defend everything that happens to the yonko but ridicule the admirals when it happens to them. Its selective bias.

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## Quipchaque (Oct 31, 2019)

Acno said:


> Yeah,nice assumption...



To be fair since awakening is a thing he could be right but the same can be said for Sabo who didn't use his main fighting style (the dragon claw techniques).


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## Quipchaque (Oct 31, 2019)

Edogawa said:


> By showings Kaido's best feat is destroying a castle, while Admirals destroyed an island. Oh, and a Yonko commander from WB permanently wounded Kaido, while an injured Akainu stomped 13 WB commanders.



Kaido never fought someone on panel other than the skirmish with Big Mom. Besides what Kaido did or did not do doesn't change what I said. Also admirals never destroyed an island. The burden of proof is on you to show us any of the current admirals are equal to the 2 fleet admiral nominees. Until then it is 2 characters superior to admirals that destroyed the islands.


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## Seraphoenix (Oct 31, 2019)

I will bring it up again because of this Akainu Commander nonsense: Marco by himself was perfectly capable of stalemating a bloodlusted Akainu while Ace was giving a very long death speech. That alone should tell you every commander is not needed to stop him. Not only that but both Kizaru and Aokiji were in the area. Aokiji froze the escape path while Kizaru was on a ship close by. Where he eventually tried to stop buggy from taking Luffy to Law.

lastly Jozu and Marco were both stalemating Kizaru and Aokiji until they got distracted. Kizaru even said victory or defeat could be determined in one misstep. Indicating that he could have lost to Marco alone if he misstepped. You don’t want to say Akainu is on the same level as all commanders combined cause it’s going to lead to Aokiji and Kizaru being far below him. Which with Aokiji we saw is not true at all.

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## Corax (Oct 31, 2019)

Commanders have trash attack power,so they are pretty much irrelevant in top tier fights. Yonko and admirals can execute them in mass without suffering anything significant. Unless commander is an Oden,or advanced haki 2.0 user.


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## Old Man Van (Oct 31, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> I will bring it up again because of this Akainu Commander nonsense: Marco by himself was perfectly capable of stalemating a bloodlusted Akainu while Ace was giving a very long death speech. That alone should tell you every commander is not needed to stop him. Not only that but both Kizaru and Aokiji were in the area. Aokiji froze the escape path while Kizaru was on a ship close by. Where he eventually tried to stop buggy from taking Luffy to Law.
> 
> lastly Jozu and Marco were both stalemating Kizaru and Aokiji until they got distracted. Kizaru even said victory or defeat could be determined in one misstep. Indicating that he could have lost to Marco alone if he misstepped. You don’t want to say Akainu is on the same level as all commanders combined cause it’s going to lead to Aokiji and Kizaru being far below him. Which with Aokiji we saw is not true at all.



This is all ABC logic.....

Both Marco and Shanks blocked Akainu so are they equal now? BB ran away from both Shanks and Akainu so Shanks=Marco=Akainu>BB?

Akainu fought Marco and Vista at the same time and their sneak attacks did nothing.....

Jozu's sneak attack on Aokiji only gave him a bloody lip....the opposite caused Jozu to get one shotted.....Kizaru's words apply to fights in general....one misstep CAN led to a loss like Zoro vs Killer but for some reason, you make it about the admirals vs commanders alone and claim they are in the same level.

The WBP cant stop Akainu....their attacks cant even hurt him. The same cant be said about Aokiji and Kizaru cause Marco and Jozu can touch them. Again, ABC logic doesnt work.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Corax (Oct 31, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Kaido never fought someone on panel other than the skirmish with Big Mom. Besides what Kaido did or did not do doesn't change what I said. Also admirals never destroyed an island. The burden of proof is on you to show us any of the current admirals are equal to the 2 fleet admiral nominees. Until then it is 2 characters superior to admirals that destroyed the islands.


Fujitora can destroy a Dressrosa sized island or for example kill Zunisha (he is the only character in manga that is capable of killing that giant monster by feats). Aokiji and Akainu can turn half of roughly Dressrosa sized island in ice or lava (also a good feat). Kizaru can't destroy an island. Green Bull is featless. So at least 1 admiral by feats can.


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## Quipchaque (Oct 31, 2019)

Corax said:


> Commanders have trash attack power,so they are pretty much irrelevant in top tier fights. Yonko and admirals can execute them in mass without suffering anything significant. Unless commander is an Oden,or advanced haki 2.0 user.



Lol Wtf. Jack poisoned a whole island and disarmed them, Jozu knocked the shit out of Aokiji, Marco and Vista forced Akainu to dodge, Katakuri drills holes into your body and suffocates you, Queen made durability monster Big Mom's skull crack and poisoned a whole prison....commanders are lethal as hell actually!


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## trance (Oct 31, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> someone far superior to Greenbull.



superior? sure

_far _superior?


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## Steven (Oct 31, 2019)

Rakuyo said:


> superior? sure
> 
> _far _superior?


His portrayal speaks for it


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## Old Man Van (Oct 31, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Lol Wtf. Jack poisoned a whole island and disarmed them, Jozu knocked the shit out of Aokiji, Marco and Vista forced Akainu to dodge, Katakuri drills holes into your body and suffocates you, Queen made durability monster Big Mom's skull crack and poisoned a whole prison....commanders are lethal as hell actually!



So instead of giving a counter argument, you remove over 2513 rep points(what do those do anyway?) and say "lots of irrelevant bullshit and selective reading."

Lol why am I not surprised.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Steven (Oct 31, 2019)

Old Man Van said:


> Fujitora's DF power is restricted and his opponents counter his ability.
> 
> Queen did not use haki, hybrid form, his weapons and underestimated BM who's at her physical peak.
> 
> ...


Yeah,fire counters gravity...


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## Quipchaque (Oct 31, 2019)

Old Man Van said:


> So instead of giving a counter argument, you remove over 2513 rep points(what do those do anyway?) and say "lots of irrelevant bullshit and selective reading."
> 
> Lol why am I not surprised.



I have no interest arguing with someone who is biased and arrogant.


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## Old Man Van (Oct 31, 2019)

Acno said:


> Yeah,fire counters gravity...



We literally saw Sabo turn into flames to fly through Fuji's gravity when he was previously getting pressured...


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## Quipchaque (Oct 31, 2019)

Rakuyo said:


> superior? sure
> 
> _far _superior?



One of them fights for 10 days, the other is portrayed as an equal to bandage-tora. Can't really say they are close based on that.


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## Quipchaque (Oct 31, 2019)

Old Man Van said:


> We literally saw Sabo turn into flames to fly through Fuji's gravity when he was previously getting pressured...



We also saw Akainu walk through Marco's and Vista's attacks "hurt durr he counters them not fair!"

This is exactly what I mean with selective reading.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Old Man Van (Oct 31, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> I have no interest arguing with someone who is biased and arrogant.



Yet you listen to yourself though.....

Reactions: Like 1


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## Old Man Van (Oct 31, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> We also saw Akainu walk through Marco's and Vista's attacks "hurt durr he counters them not fair!"
> 
> This is exactly what I mean with selective reading.



I thought you weren't interested? That didnt even last 5 minutes......

Marco and Vista arent strong enough to hurt Akainu....simple as that....unless we fault BM for having a special body and those attacks bounching off her.......you honestly compare that to scenarios like Sabo fighting someone immune to flames for example....

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## AmitDS (Oct 31, 2019)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> Smoothie is strong, she'd shit on Someone like Doflamingo, who'd shit on Zoro, but she's weaker than Katakuri and Cracker. Cracker's bounty is lower because the world government doesn't know much about him. Also I'd say Perospero and maybe Compote are stronger than Smoothie, and probably Streusen too, she's absolutely powerful, better than people give her credit for, but she's only really stronger than snack, daifuku, and oven.
> 
> Garp is honestly the strongest character bar imu, maybe zunisha, maybe the gorousei, and maybe kong.
> 
> Shounen is for 12+, and often times you can do stuff like analysis, sadly people don't have reading comprehension in the one piece community so they view stuff as stupidly as possible, but still. Oda clearly leaves stuff in on purpose, you can power scale based on this stuff and gauge effort and stuff against others, but you can't just go "that has more aoe so bam"



I'd say she's stronger than Cracker though because bounties usually reflect strength accurately among members of the same crew (same behavior/culture) and the gov't not knowing about Cracker's real form doesn't exactly prove that Smoothie is weaker or that the gov't knows more about her/all about her. Their bounties would be based on their feats, their crew's feats and Big Mom's feats and smoothie has a higher bounty at a younger age in the same crew with the same position as him so unless she went all out and he didn't, which we can't know, on her missions it can't be said that the gov't knows more about her/all about her hence her higher bounty.  She's still a mystery to us viewers and given that she has a higher bounty, is seemingly being saved for when Big Mom really goes down, is in the same crew with him and is also a commander she's likely the 2nd strongest commander.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Oct 31, 2019)

Edogawa said:


> Rarity implies mythical Zoans are less common than Logia. It doesn't imply they're better than Logia.
> 
> A DF at the hands of an Admiral did this:
> 
> ...


Over 10 days, mainly as an attribute to the temperatures of their logia.

Punk Hazard would have been wiped off the map by Kaidou.

Also no, they don't, plus they don't get a stat boost like zoans do.

STop wanking off characters similar in power to the person Kaidou just beat in base in a one hit, without buso.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Oct 31, 2019)

AmitDS said:


> I'd say she's stronger than Cracker though because bounties usually reflect strength accurately among members of the same crew (same behavior/culture) and the gov't not knowing about Cracker's real form doesn't exactly prove that Smoothie is weaker or that the gov't knows more about her/all about her. Their bounties would be based on their feats, their crew's feats and Big Mom's feats and smoothie has a higher bounty at a younger age in the same crew with the same position as him so unless she went all out and he didn't, which we can't know, on her missions it can't be said that the gov't knows more about her/all about her hence her higher bounty.  She's still a mystery to us viewers and given that she has a higher bounty, is seemingly being saved for when Big Mom really goes down, is in the same crew with him and is also a commander she's likely the 2nd strongest commander.


We've seen her do feats like things akin to mihawk cuts, but needing to drain people to do that.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Oct 31, 2019)

Acno said:


> For real now?
> 
> Kata is hardcounter against 1 dimensional fighters like Jozu and Queen is weaker in every aspect.
> 
> Kata can just speedblitz both


That's nice and all, but Jozu 90% has better buso than him, he has VASTLY more physical strength, etc.

Kaidou with nothing dropped Luffy with one hit, no zoan boosts or anything. Jozu only got hurt cuz of the attributes of ice when it freezes the joints, bone, and muscle, otherwise he's a tank and cqc god. Nothing suggests he's faster than either.


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## AmitDS (Oct 31, 2019)

PwnGoatVSPandaman said:


> We've seen her do feats like things akin to mihawk cuts, but needing to drain people to do that.



The issue is that Cracker and Katakuri went all out or nearly all out vs Luffy while Smoothie has not really done much so Cracker may look better as of now. Her slash and her growing large are her only real feats. However when we see what she can really do then this would likely change.

Reactions: Like 1


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Oct 31, 2019)

AmitDS said:


> The issue is that Cracker and Katakuri went all out or nearly all out vs Luffy while Smoothie has not really done much so Cracker may look better as of now. Her slash and her growing large are her only real feats. However when we see what she can really do then this would likely change.


Don't see what she can do that outdoes spawning infinitely armies of g2/g3 luffy leveled biscuit soldiers, having buso enough to cut g4 luffy, etc. Especially since she'll be relegated to fighting other people and not luffy.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Oct 31, 2019)

Tenma said:


> Cracker made fully battle-functional automatons that could pass off as flesh-and-blood giants.
> 
> Perospero made an escalator
> 
> I feel like I'm missing something here.


That's his devil fruit, perosopero instantly created incricate escalators that pale in scope to other things, the slime that could run on water, iron maiden thing, THE DAMN NEAR ISLAND SIZED LAB OF CC's TO A T, etc etc.


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## Quipchaque (Oct 31, 2019)

Old Man Van said:


> I thought you weren't interested? That didnt even last 5 minutes......
> 
> Marco and Vista arent strong enough to hurt Akainu....simple as that....unless we fault BM for having a special body and those attacks bounching off her.......you honestly compare that to scenarios like Sabo fighting someone immune to flames for example....



I wanted to be nice since you gave me this prime example. Anyway you can make up excuses all you want I don't care. You have clear issues with your selective reading and I won't waste my time with that.


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## Kinjin (Oct 31, 2019)

Alright, thread run its course. See you in the next iteration.


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